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7萬塊看有沒有人來切菜"},{"start":620,"end":622,"text":"是這個意思嗎"},{"start":622,"end":624,"text":"增固員工有費用加成"},{"start":624,"end":626,"text":"類似這樣的做法"},{"start":626,"end":628,"text":"又是用補助的方式"},{"start":628,"end":630,"text":"還有中高零就業也是一樣"},{"start":630,"end":632,"text":"又要用推出這種方式"},{"start":632,"end":634,"text":"看看有沒有辦法協助他們"},{"start":634,"end":636,"text":"找到"},{"start":636,"end":638,"text":"如果人口不夠的話"},{"start":638,"end":640,"text":"到大家都在搶人還是不夠"},{"start":640,"end":642,"text":"你們現在都是頭頭一頭"},{"start":642,"end":644,"text":"腳頭一腳嗎"},{"start":644,"end":646,"text":"東牆補西牆"},{"start":646,"end":648,"text":"這個缺工問題也不是一天兩天"},{"start":648,"end":650,"text":"我剛才在這邊問你這樣回答"},{"start":650,"end":652,"text":"我覺得政府好像都沒有很在意"},{"start":652,"end":654,"text":"我覺得中小維企業"},{"start":654,"end":656,"text":"聽到你的回答會很難過"},{"start":656,"end":658,"text":"希望多加油"},{"start":658,"end":660,"text":"你剛剛那個政策提供給我一份"},{"start":660,"end":662,"text":"什麼時候可以有"},{"start":662,"end":664,"text":"應該很快就會宣布"},{"start":664,"end":666,"text":"如果就法律的部分"},{"start":666,"end":668,"text":"我們是以九月"},{"start":668,"end":670,"text":"的這個為目標"},{"start":670,"end":672,"text":"九月立"},{"start":672,"end":674,"text":"法律"},{"start":674,"end":676,"text":"那政策"},{"start":676,"end":678,"text":"你行政命令可以做嗎"},{"start":678,"end":680,"text":"我相信會進化"},{"start":680,"end":682,"text":"有一些"},{"start":682,"end":684,"text":"輔導或是說"},{"start":684,"end":686,"text":"協助的措施可能是用行政措施"},{"start":686,"end":688,"text":"但有一些像剛剛提到"},{"start":688,"end":690,"text":"租稅或擴大協助的部分"},{"start":690,"end":692,"text":"有些要透過法律"},{"start":692,"end":694,"text":"這個問題"},{"start":694,"end":696,"text":"其實還蠻嚴重"},{"start":696,"end":698,"text":"希望政府官員可以正視"},{"start":698,"end":700,"text":"這件事情謝謝"},{"start":700,"end":702,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":702,"end":704,"text":"好我們謝謝"},{"start":704,"end":706,"text":"委員謝謝"},{"start":706,"end":708,"text":"陳超"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:41:34.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:41:34.760000+08:00","text":"主席好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:41:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:41:39.713333+08:00","text":"因為我看到國庫署有人來，我請國庫署先問一個問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T10:41:40.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:41:42.485714+08:00","text":"請國庫署蔡慧玲。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"蔡簡任稽核慧玲","start":"2026-08-26T10:41:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:42:00.333333+08:00","text":"委員好。你好。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:42:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:42:22.777778+08:00","text":"我想請教一下，大家關心的一個話題，因為現在行政院有講要普發1萬嘛，本來這個消息傳出來的時候，自由時報的報導引述行政院的人事指出，如果預算在今年年底順利三讀通過的話，明年國人最快就可以在農曆春節前領到這1萬元的大紅包。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:42:23.285714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:42:48.818182+08:00","text":"後來我就看到國庫署出來講另外一個完全不一樣的說法，說即便是預算三讀通過，但是因為這個不是特別預算，是一般預算，所以還是要有正常的發包程序，包括客服、發放系統、媒宣招標也都要走採購法，所以至少要5個月。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:42:49.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:42:58.777778+08:00","text":"我就簡單算了一下，如果今年年底三讀通過，5個月最快也是明年5月以後的事，怎麼趕得上春節咧？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:42:59.307692+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:43:12.750000+08:00","text":"國庫署可不可以說明一下，發放到底最快……是不是有如行政院知情人士說的，三讀通過，馬上一個月就可以領到、春節就可以領得到？","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"蔡簡任稽核慧玲","start":"2026-08-26T10:43:13+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:43:18.666667+08:00","text":"不好意思，跟委員報告一下，因為我們今天的主題是中小企業融資，普發的部分，就是……","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:43:19+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:43:20.666667+08:00","text":"不是你的業務，是不是？對！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"蔡簡任稽核慧玲","start":"2026-08-26T10:43:20.666667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T10:43:21.666667+08:00","text":"我們比較不清楚。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:43:21.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:43:22.200000+08:00","text":"你的了解呢？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:43:23.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:43:24.777778+08:00","text":"完全不是你的業務？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡簡任稽核慧玲","start":"2026-08-26T10:43:25.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:43:26.750000+08:00","text":"對，我們是不是可以會後……","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:43:27+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:43:34.714286+08:00","text":"你是不清楚，沒辦法回答，還是因為主題不是這個，所以你不想回答？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡簡任稽核慧玲","start":"2026-08-26T10:43:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:43:38.777778+08:00","text":"不是，我業管的業務就是沒有接觸到這一塊，所以那個訊息可能不夠完備。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:43:38.777778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T10:43:40+08:00","text":"好，不清楚。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:43:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:43:41.571429+08:00","text":"你回去之後給我一份資料，好不好？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:43:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:43:58.866667+08:00","text":"因為我想要知道到底是行政院知情人士亂講，還是怎麼樣，不然為什麼行政院的講法跟國庫署……我當然比較相信國庫署，因為你們是執行單位，你們一定會把相關的期程算進來，但為什麼那時候行政院知情人士要隨便講呢？","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:43:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:44:02.888889+08:00","text":"故意講一個春節前，然後還扣一個帽子說如果立法院三讀通過。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:44:03.181818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:44:10.846154+08:00","text":"到時候民眾春節領不到，可能是因為國庫署作業的問題，但是又扣帽子說又是立法院在擋預算，讓大家領不到。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:44:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:44:12.882353+08:00","text":"我覺得如果是這樣的話，又在搞認知作戰。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:44:13.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:44:20.600000+08:00","text":"我想要釐清這件事，我也不為難您，您事後請國庫署把相關的資料整理給我，好不好？謝謝。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"蔡簡任稽核慧玲","start":"2026-08-26T10:44:21+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:44:22.800000+08:00","text":"好，我們提供書面說明，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:44:23.181818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:44:25.666667+08:00","text":"接下來請政務次長，何次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T10:44:27.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:44:28.750000+08:00","text":"請何次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T10:44:28.750000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T10:44:32.333333+08:00","text":"葉委員好。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:44:32.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:44:42.333333+08:00","text":"次長，我想跟你請教一下，現在中小企業如果有直接或間接受到美國關稅影響，經濟部都有將它列為中小微企業專案的貸款資格。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:44:43.444444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:44:52.846154+08:00","text":"這個做法就顯示美國的關稅政策，其實是會影響到臺灣中小企業的現金流，所以你們才會提出這樣的措施。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:44:53+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:45:18.857143+08:00","text":"我覺得中小企業遭受比較大的劣勢，像大企業，我們現在一直在講AI半導體這種大企業，它可以因為全球布局或跟國際接軌，在國外設廠，它可以有一個出口比較高速的成長；可是中小企業可能就沒有辦法用一樣的模式，所以你們才會用專案貸款補助的方式協助他們。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:45:19.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:45:28.600000+08:00","text":"我想先請教一下，你們有評估過像這種中小企業，大概有多少企業會受到影響嗎？","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:45:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:45:36.777778+08:00","text":"然後有沒有評估過因為這樣子，導致中小企業出口的產值下降、毛利率下降，甚至產生裁員的狀況？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:45:37.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:45:38.777778+08:00","text":"你們有沒有評估過？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T10:45:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:45:48.714286+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，就從我們的數字來看，這個專案推出來之後，申請中小企業貸款的有一千多家，所以很顯然……","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:45:51.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:45:52.777778+08:00","text":"大概貸出去多少錢？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T10:45:53.285714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:46:20+08:00","text":"貸出去的部分我請同仁給我看一下，大概179.8億。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:46:21+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:46:22.714286+08:00","text":"已經貸出去179.8億？是、是。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:46:23.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:46:30.857143+08:00","text":"我想問一下，我們現在持續在做這件事情，一千多家、179.8億，你想要達到的KPI到底是什麼？","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:46:31+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:46:34.600000+08:00","text":"你不可能無止境這樣子貸款出去嘛！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:46:35.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:46:36.750000+08:00","text":"會不會形成呆帳？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:46:37.153846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:46:40.866667+08:00","text":"請教一下，你現在是以發出去多少錢當作KPI嗎？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:46:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:46:42.857143+08:00","text":"還是你是以保住多少企業當作KPI？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:46:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:46:48.833333+08:00","text":"你是讓這些中小企業的營業額成長、毛利率增加，然後員工薪資提升來做KPI？","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:46:49+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:46:52.777778+08:00","text":"到底現在經濟部在這一塊，你的策略到底是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T10:46:53.571429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:47:16.846154+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，當然就是要維持企業正常營運，然後保證不裁員、不減薪，這個當然是最重要的一個原則；第二個部分，當然我們也會看企業是不是有受到其他的影響，如果還有其他影響的話，我們有一些其他的輔導資源也會進來。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T10:47:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:47:24.714286+08:00","text":"所以這個是要綜合來看的，也不見得我們只看一個指標……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:47:25+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:47:26.800000+08:00","text":"我剛剛講了很多指標嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T10:47:26.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T10:47:27.800000+08:00","text":"對，所以那些指標我們都要綜合來……","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:47:27.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:47:28.777778+08:00","text":"次長，這樣好不好？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:47:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:47:32.846154+08:00","text":"因為你可能很需要同仁提供你資料，你提供一份資料給本席好不好？好。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:47:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:47:36.857143+08:00","text":"就是你做這件事情，到底你的KPI、你的目標是什麼？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:47:37.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:47:38.666667+08:00","text":"現在怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:47:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:47:40.875000+08:00","text":"有沒有一些中小企業已經撐不下去了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:47:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:47:42.750000+08:00","text":"然後裁員裁多少呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:47:43.153846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:47:44.846154+08:00","text":"到底做這件事情有沒有幫助？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:47:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:47:47.600000+08:00","text":"還有，你有沒有一個長遠的規劃？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:47:47.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:47:50.800000+08:00","text":"因為這絕對是這一、兩年很重要的課題啊！","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:47:51.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:47:53.307692+08:00","text":"具體來說，你們的對策到底是什麼？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:47:53.461538+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:47:54.846154+08:00","text":"你一併提供給我好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T10:47:54.846154+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T10:47:56+08:00","text":"好，我們再提供給委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:47:56+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:48:08.882353+08:00","text":"另外我再提醒一件事情，因為我們現在在地方，很多服務業或者是傳統產業反映缺工的狀況非常嚴重，而且缺工已經影響到他們的產值了。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:48:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:48:12.894737+08:00","text":"我舉例來講，像餐廳，有一間餐廳跟我講，他們現在小菜都變比較少。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:48:13+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:48:16.818182+08:00","text":"他們小菜本來很多，為什麼現在小菜比較少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:48:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:48:18.714286+08:00","text":"因為沒有人去切啊！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:48:19.307692+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:48:30.777778+08:00","text":"其實他也不是薪水開得低，薪水已經開到5萬左右，也正常上下班，也沒加班，反正就沒有人要來做，所以他的產值就減少嘛！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:48:31.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:48:42.777778+08:00","text":"我還有聽說另外一位是在市場切雞的，薪水開到七萬多塊沒有人要來做，雞沒有人切，所以產量就減少。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:48:43.285714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:48:46.818182+08:00","text":"現在影響到中小企業的產值，有一個很大的原因是缺工啊！","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:48:47.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:48:54.750000+08:00","text":"我不知道，好像工總提出建議也有講到這件事情。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:48:55.181818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:49:00.777778+08:00","text":"現在經濟部或者是國發會，對於缺工這麼嚴重，到底有沒有什麼對策？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T10:49:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:49:08.600000+08:00","text":"是，當然我們希望用數位工具解決部分缺工的問題啦！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:49:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:49:12.777778+08:00","text":"數位工具沒有辦法解決，你要AI去幫忙切菜喔！","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T10:49:13+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:49:14.636364+08:00","text":"大概就是AI或是機器手臂，或是自動化，對這些中小企業……","quality":0.417},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:49:15.142857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:49:15.285714+08:00","text":"怎麼可能？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:49:15.428571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:49:16.857143+08:00","text":"人家小吃店還能用機器手臂？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:49:16.857143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T10:49:19.833333+08:00","text":"不是，次長，這個都不切實際啦！","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:49:19.833333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:49:26.500000+08:00","text":"現在人家面臨產值逐漸下滑的問題，你還跟他講可以用機器手臂去切，哪有可能啊！","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:49:27+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:49:28.750000+08:00","text":"那就是一般的餐飲業嘛！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:49:31+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:49:34.818182+08:00","text":"我請國發會副主委來回答一下，好不好？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:49:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:49:36.833333+08:00","text":"因為我看副主委有回答工總的問題。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:49:37+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:49:42.600000+08:00","text":"針對傳統產業缺工這麼嚴重，現在政府的對策到底是什麼？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"詹副主任委員方冠","start":"2026-08-26T10:49:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:49:43.545455+08:00","text":"是，謝謝委員。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"詹副主任委員方冠","start":"2026-08-26T10:49:43.909091+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:50:00.111111+08:00","text":"因為我們對於傳統產業，特別是製造業的部分，過去相對上在人力的補充措施，因為需求比較多，所以過去比較有相關的對策，現在因為已經開始擴充到委員剛剛提到的中小微或者是服務業。","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"詹副主任委員方冠","start":"2026-08-26T10:50:01.142857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:50:10.750000+08:00","text":"這部分，一方面我們當然希望比較長期的，是透過我們人口新戰略來協助；比較短期的部分……","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:50:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:50:12.764706+08:00","text":"人口新戰略，現在少子化就越來越嚴重！","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"詹副主任委員方冠","start":"2026-08-26T10:50:13+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:50:14.857143+08:00","text":"對，所以我說這是比較長期的策略。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:50:15+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:50:30.714286+08:00","text":"你說人口新戰略，但是你們國發會或是政府的少子化辦公室成立了這麼多年，我們的人口越來越少，所以網路上就戲稱少子化辦公室真的造成少子化。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"詹副主任委員方冠","start":"2026-08-26T10:50:30.714286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T10:50:31.714286+08:00","text":"沒有，我們要用的作法……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:50:31+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:50:34.800000+08:00","text":"你現在還跟我講缺工要用人口新戰略來解決。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:50:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:50:40.454545+08:00","text":"我現在講的都是很務實的問題，人家在跟我談的時候都非常憂心，委員怎麼辦？","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:50:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:50:48.750000+08:00","text":"我們現在如何、市場怎麼樣……結果我們來國會質詢官員，官員在跟我講空話，說我們有人口新戰略。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"詹副主任委員方冠","start":"2026-08-26T10:50:49+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:50:50.600000+08:00","text":"沒有，我是說長期的部分。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:50:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:50:54.714286+08:00","text":"我現在講的就是眼前的問題，你現在要怎麼做？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"詹副主任委員方冠","start":"2026-08-26T10:50:55.266667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:50:56.866667+08:00","text":"坦白說，服務業的部分的確是比較困難。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:50:57+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:50:58.500000+08:00","text":"那怎麼辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"詹副主任委員方冠","start":"2026-08-26T10:50:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:51:16.800000+08:00","text":"我們中小微新的措施，可能會透過擴大中小微企業在增僱基層員工或者是聘僱中高齡就業方面，做一些新的措施，無論是補助或租稅優惠來協助這些服務業，這些服務業目前面臨缺工是以這個方向解決。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:51:19+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:51:20.714286+08:00","text":"你有計畫出來了嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"詹副主任委員方冠","start":"2026-08-26T10:51:21+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:51:24.750000+08:00","text":"現在經濟部跟各部會正在研擬中，應該很快會推出來。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:51:25.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:51:30+08:00","text":"現在你們的規劃方向是透過補助，譬如像中小微……","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"詹副主任委員方冠","start":"2026-08-26T10:51:30+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T10:51:31+08:00","text":"租稅優惠。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:51:30.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:51:40.666667+08:00","text":"他現在聘不到員工，你就補助薪水，例如他們這邊出5萬，政府補助2萬，總共7萬塊看有沒有人要來切菜，是這個意思嗎？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"詹副主任委員方冠","start":"2026-08-26T10:51:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:51:42.777778+08:00","text":"增僱員工有費用加成的效果。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:51:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:51:46.750000+08:00","text":"就是類似費用加成這樣的做法，又是用補助的方式。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"詹副主任委員方冠","start":"2026-08-26T10:51:47+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:51:47.545455+08:00","text":"還有中高齡就業……","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:51:47.909091+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:51:48.818182+08:00","text":"中高齡就業也是一樣啊！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:51:49+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:51:54+08:00","text":"又要推出這種方式，看看有沒有辦法協助他們找到員工。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"詹副主任委員方冠","start":"2026-08-26T10:51:54+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T10:51:55+08:00","text":"當然還有其他的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:51:55+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:51:58.818182+08:00","text":"如果服務業人口不夠、大家都在搶人的話，還是會不夠啊！","quality":0.696},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:51:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:52:04.600000+08:00","text":"你們現在都是頭痛醫頭、腳痛醫腳，挖東牆、補西牆。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:52:05.307692+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:52:10.692308+08:00","text":"國發會，拜託一下，缺工問題也不是一天、兩天了，今天來這邊問你，你這樣回答，我真的覺得政府好像都沒有很在乎這件事情。","quality":0.62},{"speaker":"詹副主任委員方冠","start":"2026-08-26T10:52:10.692308+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T10:52:11.750000+08:00","text":"不是，這個部分會有新的措施。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:52:11.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:52:16.600000+08:00","text":"中小微企業聽到你的回答會很難過，多加油，好不好？","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:52:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:52:18.846154+08:00","text":"你剛剛講的那個政策提供給我一份，好不好？","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:52:19+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:52:20.714286+08:00","text":"什麼時候可以有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"詹副主任委員方冠","start":"2026-08-26T10:52:21+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:52:22.750000+08:00","text":"應該很快就會宣布了。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:52:22.750000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T10:52:23.750000+08:00","text":"什麼時候？","quality":0},{"speaker":"詹副主任委員方冠","start":"2026-08-26T10:52:23.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:52:28.666667+08:00","text":"就法律的部分，我們是以9月為目標，就能夠送到……","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:52:29.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:52:32+08:00","text":"9月提法律案？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"詹副主任委員方冠","start":"2026-08-26T10:52:32+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T10:52:33+08:00","text":"因為要……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:52:33+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T10:52:34+08:00","text":"政策實行又更慢了嘛！","quality":0.222},{"speaker":"詹副主任委員方冠","start":"2026-08-26T10:52:34+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T10:52:35+08:00","text":"我相信會儘快。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:52:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:52:36.777778+08:00","text":"你用行政命令可以做嗎？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"詹副主任委員方冠","start":"2026-08-26T10:52:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:52:50.714286+08:00","text":"有一些輔導或者協助措施可能是用行政措施，但有些像剛剛提到租稅或擴大協助的部分，有些要透過法律，法律案會送到大院來審議。","quality":0.782},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T10:52:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:52:58.666667+08:00","text":"這個問題其實還蠻嚴重，希望政府官員可以正視這件事情，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"詹副主任委員方冠","start":"2026-08-26T10:52:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:53:00.500000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T10:53:02.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:53:03.500000+08:00","text":"謝謝葉元之委員。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T10:53:04+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T10:53:08.857143+08:00","text":"陳超明委員、陳超明委員，陳超明委員不在。","quality":0.118},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T10:53:09.157143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T10:53:12.300000+08:00","text":"接下來，請蔡易餘委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":608,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（10時41分）主席好。因為我看到國庫署有人來，我請國庫署先問一個問題。"],["主席：請國庫署蔡慧玲。"],["蔡簡任稽核慧玲：委員好。"],["葉委員元之：你好。我想請教一下，大家關心的一個話題，因為現在行政院有講要普發1萬嘛，本來這個消息傳出來的時候，自由時報的報導引述行政院的人事指出，如果預算在今年年底順利三讀通過的話，明年國人最快就可以在農曆春節前領到這1萬元的大紅包。後來我就看到國庫署出來講另外一個完全不一樣的說法，說即便是預算三讀通過，但是因為這個不是特別預算，是一般預算，所以還是要有正常的發包程序，包括客服、發放系統、媒宣招標也都要走採購法，所以至少要5個月。我就簡單算了一下，如果今年年底三讀通過，5個月最快也是明年5月以後的事，怎麼趕得上春節咧？國庫署可不可以說明一下，發放到底最快……是不是有如行政院知情人士說的，三讀通過，馬上一個月就可以領到、春節就可以領得到？"],["蔡簡任稽核慧玲：不好意思，跟委員報告一下，因為我們今天的主題是中小企業融資，普發的部分，就是……"],["葉委員元之：不是你的業務，是不是？"],["蔡簡任稽核慧玲：對！我們比較不清楚。"],["葉委員元之：你的了解呢？完全不是你的業務？"],["蔡簡任稽核慧玲：對，我們是不是可以會後……"],["葉委員元之：你是不清楚，沒辦法回答，還是因為主題不是這個，所以你不想回答？"],["蔡簡任稽核慧玲：不是，我業管的業務就是沒有接觸到這一塊，所以那個訊息可能不夠完備。"],["葉委員元之：好，不清楚。你回去之後給我一份資料，好不好？因為我想要知道到底是行政院知情人士亂講，還是怎麼樣，不然為什麼行政院的講法跟國庫署……我當然比較相信國庫署，因為你們是執行單位，你們一定會把相關的期程算進來，但為什麼那時候行政院知情人士要隨便講呢？故意講一個春節前，然後還扣一個帽子說如果立法院三讀通過。到時候民眾春節領不到，可能是因為國庫署作業的問題，但是又扣帽子說又是立法院在擋預算，讓大家領不到。我覺得如果是這樣的話，又在搞認知作戰。我想要釐清這件事，我也不為難您，您事後請國庫署把相關的資料整理給我，好不好？謝謝。"],["蔡簡任稽核慧玲：好，我們提供書面說明，謝謝。"],["葉委員元之：謝謝。接下來請政務次長，何次長。"],["主席：請何次長。"],["何次長晉滄：葉委員好。"],["葉委員元之：次長，我想跟你請教一下，現在中小企業如果有直接或間接受到美國關稅影響，經濟部都有將它列為中小微企業專案的貸款資格。這個做法就顯示美國的關稅政策，其實是會影響到臺灣中小企業的現金流，所以你們才會提出這樣的措施。我覺得中小企業遭受比較大的劣勢，像大企業，我們現在一直在講AI半導體這種大企業，它可以因為全球布局或跟國際接軌，在國外設廠，它可以有一個出口比較高速的成長；可是中小企業可能就沒有辦法用一樣的模式，所以你們才會用專案貸款補助的方式協助他們。","我想先請教一下，你們有評估過像這種中小企業，大概有多少企業會受到影響嗎？然後有沒有評估過因為這樣子，導致中小企業出口的產值下降、毛利率下降，甚至產生裁員的狀況？你們有沒有評估過？"],["何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，就從我們的數字來看，這個專案推出來之後，申請中小企業貸款的有一千多家，所以很顯然……"],["葉委員元之：大概貸出去多少錢？"],["何次長晉滄：貸出去的部分我請同仁給我看一下，大概179.8億。"],["葉委員元之：已經貸出去179.8億？"],["何次長晉滄：是、是。"],["葉委員元之：我想問一下，我們現在持續在做這件事情，一千多家、179.8億，你想要達到的KPI到底是什麼？你不可能無止境這樣子貸款出去嘛！會不會形成呆帳？","請教一下，你現在是以發出去多少錢當作KPI嗎？還是你是以保住多少企業當作KPI？你是讓這些中小企業的營業額成長、毛利率增加，然後員工薪資提升來做KPI？到底現在經濟部在這一塊，你的策略到底是什麼？"],["何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，當然就是要維持企業正常營運，然後保證不裁員、不減薪，這個當然是最重要的一個原則；第二個部分，當然我們也會看企業是不是有受到其他的影響，如果還有其他影響的話，我們有一些其他的輔導資源也會進來。所以這個是要綜合來看的，也不見得我們只看一個指標……"],["葉委員元之：我剛剛講了很多指標嘛！"],["何次長晉滄：對，所以那些指標我們都要綜合來……"],["葉委員元之：次長，這樣好不好？因為你可能很需要同仁提供你資料，你提供一份資料給本席好不好？"],["何次長晉滄：好。"],["葉委員元之：就是你做這件事情，到底你的KPI、你的目標是什麼？現在怎麼樣？有沒有一些中小企業已經撐不下去了？然後裁員裁多少呢？到底做這件事情有沒有幫助？還有，你有沒有一個長遠的規劃？因為這絕對是這一、兩年很重要的課題啊！具體來說，你們的對策到底是什麼？你一併提供給我好不好？"],["何次長晉滄：好，我們再提供給委員。"],["葉委員元之：另外我再提醒一件事情，因為我們現在在地方，很多服務業或者是傳統產業反映缺工的狀況非常嚴重，而且缺工已經影響到他們的產值了。我舉例來講，像餐廳，有一間餐廳跟我講，他們現在小菜都變比較少。他們小菜本來很多，為什麼現在小菜比較少？因為沒有人去切啊！其實他也不是薪水開得低，薪水已經開到5萬左右，也正常上下班，也沒加班，反正就沒有人要來做，所以他的產值就減少嘛！","我還有聽說另外一位是在市場切雞的，薪水開到七萬多塊沒有人要來做，雞沒有人切，所以產量就減少。現在影響到中小企業的產值，有一個很大的原因是缺工啊！我不知道，好像工總提出建議也有講到這件事情。現在經濟部或者是國發會，對於缺工這麼嚴重，到底有沒有什麼對策？"],["何次長晉滄：是，當然我們希望用數位工具解決部分缺工的問題啦！"],["葉委員元之：數位工具沒有辦法解決，你要AI去幫忙切菜喔！"],["何次長晉滄：大概就是AI或是機器手臂，或是自動化，對這些中小企業……"],["葉委員元之：怎麼可能？人家小吃店還能用機器手臂？不是，次長，這個都不切實際啦！現在人家面臨產值逐漸下滑的問題，你還跟他講可以用機器手臂去切，哪有可能啊！那就是一般的餐飲業嘛！","我請國發會副主委來回答一下，好不好？因為我看副主委有回答工總的問題。針對傳統產業缺工這麼嚴重，現在政府的對策到底是什麼？"],["詹副主任委員方冠：是，謝謝委員。因為我們對於傳統產業，特別是製造業的部分，過去相對上在人力的補充措施，因為需求比較多，所以過去比較有相關的對策，現在因為已經開始擴充到委員剛剛提到的中小微或者是服務業。這部分，一方面我們當然希望比較長期的，是透過我們人口新戰略來協助；比較短期的部分……"],["葉委員元之：人口新戰略，現在少子化就越來越嚴重！"],["詹副主任委員方冠：對，所以我說這是比較長期的策略。"],["葉委員元之：你說人口新戰略，但是你們國發會或是政府的少子化辦公室成立了這麼多年，我們的人口越來越少，所以網路上就戲稱少子化辦公室真的造成少子化。"],["詹副主任委員方冠：沒有，我們要用的作法……"],["葉委員元之：你現在還跟我講缺工要用人口新戰略來解決。我現在講的都是很務實的問題，人家在跟我談的時候都非常憂心，委員怎麼辦？我們現在如何、市場怎麼樣……結果我們來國會質詢官員，官員在跟我講空話，說我們有人口新戰略。"],["詹副主任委員方冠：沒有，我是說長期的部分。"],["葉委員元之：我現在講的就是眼前的問題，你現在要怎麼做？"],["詹副主任委員方冠：坦白說，服務業的部分的確是比較困難。"],["葉委員元之：那怎麼辦？"],["詹副主任委員方冠：我們中小微新的措施，可能會透過擴大中小微企業在增僱基層員工或者是聘僱中高齡就業方面，做一些新的措施，無論是補助或租稅優惠來協助這些服務業，這些服務業目前面臨缺工是以這個方向解決。"],["葉委員元之：你有計畫出來了嗎？"],["詹副主任委員方冠：現在經濟部跟各部會正在研擬中，應該很快會推出來。"],["葉委員元之：現在你們的規劃方向是透過補助，譬如像中小微……"],["詹副主任委員方冠：租稅優惠。"],["葉委員元之：他現在聘不到員工，你就補助薪水，例如他們這邊出5萬，政府補助2萬，總共7萬塊看有沒有人要來切菜，是這個意思嗎？"],["詹副主任委員方冠：增僱員工有費用加成的效果。"],["葉委員元之：就是類似費用加成這樣的做法，又是用補助的方式。"],["詹副主任委員方冠：還有中高齡就業……"],["葉委員元之：中高齡就業也是一樣啊！又要推出這種方式，看看有沒有辦法協助他們找到員工。"],["詹副主任委員方冠：當然還有其他的……"],["葉委員元之：如果服務業人口不夠、大家都在搶人的話，還是會不夠啊！你們現在都是頭痛醫頭、腳痛醫腳，挖東牆、補西牆。國發會，拜託一下，缺工問題也不是一天、兩天了，今天來這邊問你，你這樣回答，我真的覺得政府好像都沒有很在乎這件事情。"],["詹副主任委員方冠：不是，這個部分會有新的措施。"],["葉委員元之：中小微企業聽到你的回答會很難過，多加油，好不好？你剛剛講的那個政策提供給我一份，好不好？什麼時候可以有？"],["詹副主任委員方冠：應該很快就會宣布了。"],["葉委員元之：什麼時候？"],["詹副主任委員方冠：就法律的部分，我們是以9月為目標，就能夠送到……"],["葉委員元之：9月提法律案？"],["詹副主任委員方冠：因為要……"],["葉委員元之：政策實行又更慢了嘛！"],["詹副主任委員方冠：我相信會儘快。"],["葉委員元之：你用行政命令可以做嗎？"],["詹副主任委員方冠：有一些輔導或者協助措施可能是用行政措施，但有些像剛剛提到租稅或擴大協助的部分，有些要透過法律，法律案會送到大院來審議。"],["葉委員元之：這個問題其實還蠻嚴重，希望政府官員可以正視這件事情，謝謝。"],["詹副主任委員方冠：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝葉元之委員。","陳超明委員、陳超明委員，陳超明委員不在。","接下來，請蔡易餘委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"agendarec_url":null,"pdf_url":null,"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第27次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員、財政部首長、金融監督管理委員會首長、財團法人\n中小企業信用保證基金首長、國家科學及技術委員會首長就「中小微新企業發展困境、政策需求\n及政府資源配置與執行成效」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1157601_00001","doc_url":null,"page_end":60,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-19-27","speakers":["洪毓祥","陳亭妃","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","呂玉玲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","葉元之","蔡易餘","鄭正鈐","傅崐萁","邱議瑩","謝衣鳯","徐欣瑩","陳超明","張嘉郡","賴瑞隆"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-08-26"],"gazette_id":"1157601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1157601_00002"],"pdf_page_offset":0}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}