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他因此產生了這個恐懼"},{"start":108.16000000000001,"end":109.76,"text":"姚思榮 還有精神壓力"},{"start":109.76,"end":113.76,"text":"姚思榮 甚至說他不敢再繼續去工作"},{"start":113.76,"end":118.76,"text":"姚思榮 那這是不是也可能涉及到這個職業安全衛生法"},{"start":118.76,"end":122.76,"text":"姚思榮 所處理的這個執行職務遭受不法侵害"},{"start":122.76,"end":123.76,"text":"姚思榮 請"},{"start":123.76,"end":125.76,"text":"姚思榮 你剛剛所提到"},{"start":125.76,"end":129.76,"text":"姚思榮 因為他的先決 當然就是說像性騷擾這樣一樣"},{"start":129.76,"end":132.76,"text":"姚思榮 也是屬於我們職安法裡面所提到的自然不法侵害"},{"start":132.76,"end":134.76,"text":"姚思榮 好 那另外呢"},{"start":134.76,"end":138.76,"text":"姚思榮 現在的這個職安法已經進一步建立了"},{"start":138.76,"end":141.76,"text":"姚思榮 一個職場霸凌的相關規範了嘛"},{"start":141.76,"end":145.76,"text":"姚思榮 那但是我要在這裡特別釐清"},{"start":145.76,"end":147.76,"text":"姚思榮 職場性侵害"},{"start":147.76,"end":150.76,"text":"姚思榮 是不是就等於職場霸凌"},{"start":153.76,"end":157.76,"text":"姚思榮 性侵害 因為這兩個他在定義上是不一樣的"},{"start":157.76,"end":161.76,"text":"姚思榮 好 那如果不是的話 本席也同意"},{"start":161.76,"end":165.76,"text":"姚思榮 因為兩者的這個法律構成的要件"},{"start":165.76,"end":167.76,"text":"姚思榮 並不完全相同嘛"},{"start":167.76,"end":170.76,"text":"姚思榮 但是呢 我要問的是說"},{"start":170.76,"end":172.76,"text":"姚思榮 同一個案件"},{"start":172.76,"end":176.76,"text":"姚思榮 有沒有可能他同時成立性侵害"},{"start":176.76,"end":180.76,"text":"姚思榮 性別平等工作法的這個詮釋性騷擾"},{"start":180.76,"end":184.76,"text":"姚思榮 以及職場不法侵害 甚至職場霸凌"},{"start":184.76,"end":188.76,"text":"姚思榮 例如說主管性侵害女部署之後呢"},{"start":188.76,"end":192.76,"text":"姚思榮 她利用這個烤雞生簽"},{"start":192.76,"end":195.76,"text":"姚思榮 還有工作分配等號去威脅被害人"},{"start":195.76,"end":198.76,"text":"姚思榮 要求她不可以講出去"},{"start":198.76,"end":204.76,"text":"姚思榮 這種情況是不是就是她同時就跨越了三個法律的領域"},{"start":204.76,"end":208.76,"text":"姚思榮 所以如果今天一旦有這樣的犯罪事件"},{"start":208.76,"end":212.76,"text":"姚思榮 勞動主管機關需不需要介入調查"},{"start":212.76,"end":215.76,"text":"姚思榮 有可能他就是這種不法侵害行為"},{"start":215.76,"end":217.76,"text":"姚思榮 他可能是屬於您剛剛提到的這種附屬行為"},{"start":217.76,"end":219.76,"text":"姚思榮 那這些附屬行為的話呢"},{"start":219.76,"end":222.76,"text":"姚思榮 僱主他就應該要依照我們各自的法令規定"},{"start":222.76,"end":225.76,"text":"姚思榮 比如像性供法還有我們目前"},{"start":225.76,"end":228.76,"text":"姚思榮 所訂的職場霸凌的相關規定去做調查"},{"start":228.76,"end":231.76,"text":"姚思榮 是 那在之前呢"},{"start":231.76,"end":234.76,"text":"姚思榮 我特別要提一個令人相當生氣的一個案例"},{"start":234.76,"end":239.76,"text":"姚思榮 就是 之前發生在這個麥當勞"},{"start":239.76,"end":242.76,"text":"姚思榮 主管性侵害這個未成年部署的案子"},{"start":242.76,"end":247.76,"text":"姚思榮 那這個案子在第一審判決是給予不起訴"},{"start":247.76,"end":250.76,"text":"姚思榮 理由是罪證不足"},{"start":250.76,"end":255.76,"text":"姚思榮 隨後呢 這個案子又經過高檢署發回更審"},{"start":255.76,"end":257.76,"text":"姚思榮 那這個案子發生之後呢"},{"start":257.76,"end":262.76,"text":"姚思榮 台北市政府勞動局依照這個違反新公法"},{"start":262.76,"end":265.76,"text":"姚思榮 對麥當勞開罰新台幣100萬元"},{"start":265.76,"end":270.76,"text":"姚思榮 那台灣麥當勞獲得這個他們獲報之後呢"},{"start":270.76,"end":274.76,"text":"姚思榮 將這個涉案的主管把他解僱了"},{"start":274.76,"end":279.76,"text":"姚思榮 但是呢 因為這個性侵屬於刑事偵查的範疇嘛"},{"start":279.76,"end":286.76,"text":"姚思榮 公司在後續呢 他僅僅依照這個性別平等工作法"},{"start":286.76,"end":289.76,"text":"姚思榮 去處理這個職場性騷擾的調查"},{"start":289.76,"end":291.76,"text":"姚思榮 好優勢可見喔"},{"start":291.76,"end":296.76,"text":"姚思榮 職場性侵 他一定涉及到職場性騷擾"},{"start":296.76,"end":302.76,"text":"姚思榮 而且呢 也是屬於這個職場霸凌的樣態"},{"start":303.76,"end":309.76,"text":"姚思榮 因為這個被害者他的身體已經受到不法侵害了"},{"start":309.76,"end":313.76,"text":"姚思榮 可是呢 僱主跟這個勞動主管機關"},{"start":313.76,"end":318.76,"text":"姚思榮 好像似乎他們只能事後來調查"},{"start":318.76,"end":320.76,"text":"姚思榮 而且在傷害發生之後呢"},{"start":320.76,"end":325.76,"text":"姚思榮 當事人跟這個家屬面對司法只能自力救濟"},{"start":325.76,"end":329.76,"text":"姚思榮 在這個調查結果跟報告呢"},{"start":329.76,"end":332.76,"text":"姚思榮 也沒有辦法提供給司法機關"},{"start":332.76,"end":336.76,"text":"姚思榮 所以本期要在這裡強烈的建議喔"},{"start":336.76,"end":342.76,"text":"姚思榮 行政調查的資料應該要主動提供給受害人跟家屬"},{"start":342.76,"end":345.76,"text":"姚思榮 在他們面對司法的時候呢"},{"start":345.76,"end":347.76,"text":"姚思榮 才可以提供給這個法院參考"},{"start":347.76,"end":349.76,"text":"姚思榮 我想這樣的建議"},{"start":349.76,"end":351.76,"text":"姚思榮 我不曉得你們勞動部的看法是什麼"},{"start":351.76,"end":357.76,"text":"姚思榮 這邊就是針對我們這個性供法相關的一些規範提出一些建議"},{"start":357.76,"end":362.76,"text":"姚思榮 那其實依照現在地方在主管機關在受理工作場所"},{"start":362.76,"end":367.76,"text":"姚思榮 性騷擾事件的申訴處理辦法裡面的第18條裡面"},{"start":367.76,"end":372.76,"text":"姚思榮 有去規定到說地方主管機關如果受理了職場"},{"start":372.76,"end":376.76,"text":"姚思榮 性騷擾的案件做完的這個處理結果的部分的話"},{"start":376.76,"end":378.76,"text":"姚思榮 其實要提供給司法機關的這個處理"},{"start":378.76,"end":380.76,"text":"姚思榮 其實要提供給司法機關的這個處理"},{"start":380.76,"end":384.76,"text":"姚思榮 其實要用書面通知給申訴人跟被申訴人"},{"start":384.76,"end":389.76,"text":"姚思榮 委員這邊就是進一步有槌詢或是有建議到說"},{"start":389.76,"end":393.76,"text":"姚思榮 為了進一步保障到後續這個申訴人"},{"start":393.76,"end":398.76,"text":"姚思榮 它可能相關後面的司法的一些資源的整備的部分的話"},{"start":398.76,"end":400.76,"text":"姚思榮 可能關於這個部分的話"},{"start":400.76,"end":406.76,"text":"姚思榮 我們這邊會在會同相關的地方再做一個相關議題的研議"},{"start":406.76,"end":410.76,"text":"姚思榮 你們要研議多久?什麼時候可以研議完成?"},{"start":410.76,"end":420.76,"text":"姚思榮 委員我們這邊可能再跟地方這邊再溝通的部分的話"},{"start":420.76,"end":428.76,"text":"姚思榮 委員可以給我們兩個到三個月嗎?對,謝謝"},{"start":428.76,"end":431.76,"text":"姚思榮 那時候我可能也從這裡畢業了"},{"start":432.76,"end":437.76,"text":"姚思榮 好,我想是這樣,那你們起碼我是不是可以在兩週內"},{"start":437.76,"end":440.76,"text":"姚思榮 可以來啟動安排這個會議"},{"start":440.76,"end":443.76,"text":"姚思榮 你總要開始有動作嘛"},{"start":443.76,"end":447.76,"text":"姚思榮 不然通常這個行政機關說這個兩三個月"},{"start":447.76,"end":450.76,"text":"姚思榮 其實都是有時候常常壓到很後面啦"},{"start":450.76,"end":457.76,"text":"姚思榮 那在過去有一些單位甚至部長都交代了"},{"start":457.76,"end":463.76,"text":"姚思榮 半年過去了沒有進度,然後部長又要再重新對不起"},{"start":463.76,"end":467.76,"text":"姚思榮 然後重新再要求壓日期一次"},{"start":467.76,"end":471.76,"text":"姚思榮 所以這個往返之間可能就一年過去了"},{"start":471.76,"end":476.76,"text":"姚思榮 所以本期要求你們兩週是很滿寬限的時間"},{"start":476.76,"end":483.76,"text":"姚思榮 我是要求你們要開始啟動這個工作嗎?啟動這個研議"},{"start":483.76,"end":488.76,"text":"姚思榮 好,我們這邊就是先來做一個規劃這個會議的相關研議"},{"start":488.76,"end":496.76,"text":"姚思榮 好,那現在是8月嘛,那你們啟動之後"},{"start":496.76,"end":504.76,"text":"姚思榮 我是希望大概在10月的時候,10月中旬"},{"start":504.76,"end":508.76,"text":"姚思榮 可以有一個比較初步的結果"},{"start":508.76,"end":514.76,"text":"姚思榮 好,這邊再把相關的一些研議的結果再回復委員"},{"start":514.76,"end":525.76,"text":"姚思榮 好,謝謝,那這個案子在最近當然監察院也針對台北市政府的勞動局提出糾正"},{"start":525.76,"end":528.76,"text":"姚思榮 那指出這個勞動局在監獲通報的時候"},{"start":528.76,"end":534.76,"text":"姚思榮 沒有落實跨局處的橫向聯繫跟這個性侵害責任通報"},{"start":534.76,"end":539.76,"text":"姚思榮 那他們也沒有積極督導這個雇主提供被害人完整的保護"},{"start":539.76,"end":546.76,"text":"姚思榮 我想要請教這樣的這個理由勞動部你們認同嗎?"},{"start":546.76,"end":559.76,"text":"姚思榮 跟回復委員,因為其實在我們勞動部有建置職場性騷擾通報的這個案件的這個系統"},{"start":559.76,"end":567.76,"text":"姚思榮 那所以其實事業單位他如果接收到,事業單位如果依法受理了性騷擾的案子之後"},{"start":567.76,"end":574.76,"text":"姚思榮 他其實就會上去做一個通報,那通報系統就會自動轉給地方政府"},{"start":574.76,"end":578.76,"text":"姚思榮 所以其實地方政府他其實收到這樣的案件之後"},{"start":578.76,"end":585.76,"text":"姚思榮 尤其是針對未滿18歲跟性侵害的這樣的案件,系統都會標註警示的案件"},{"start":585.76,"end":594.76,"text":"姚思榮 所以其實後續都,地方政府都可以去掌握這個相關案件的督導跟督促的部分"},{"start":594.76,"end":599.76,"text":"姚思榮 您好像沒有回答我的問題"},{"start":599.76,"end":601.76,"text":"姚思榮 不好意思,可以請你過院"},{"start":601.76,"end":616.76,"text":"姚思榮 那我只是,我是問你們認不認同你剛剛講的那些都是已經既定本來就是規範在那邊"},{"start":616.76,"end":622.76,"text":"姚思榮 不好意思,請我再提"},{"start":622.76,"end":628.76,"text":"姚思榮 我是說監察院有針對台北市政府勞動局有提出糾正"},{"start":628.76,"end":635.76,"text":"姚思榮 那當然就是說他們監察院有指出說勞動局他們在接獲通報的時候"},{"start":635.76,"end":639.76,"text":"姚思榮 他沒有落實這個跨局處的這個橫向聯繫"},{"start":639.76,"end":642.76,"text":"姚思榮 還有這個性侵害的這個責任通報"},{"start":642.76,"end":648.76,"text":"姚思榮 那他們都沒有積極去督導這個雇主"},{"start":648.76,"end":651.76,"text":"姚思榮 提供被害人完整的保護"},{"start":651.76,"end":656.76,"text":"姚思榮 我是問你這樣的理由你們有沒有認同"},{"start":656.76,"end":662.76,"text":"姚思榮 我們這邊如果是針對這個性侵害防治法第十一條規定的部分的話"},{"start":662.76,"end":666.76,"text":"姚思榮 其實勞政人員他如果在執行職務上面"},{"start":666.76,"end":670.76,"text":"姚思榮 如果相關案件有涉及到這個性侵害犯罪的情勢的話"},{"start":670.76,"end":673.76,"text":"姚思榮 而且是要去做一個通報的"},{"start":673.76,"end":679.76,"text":"姚思榮 所以其實這個可能檢察院這邊具體的資料的部分的話"},{"start":679.76,"end":682.76,"text":"姚思榮 他其實糾正台北市勞動局的這個重點"},{"start":682.76,"end":685.76,"text":"姚思榮 應該是有這樣的情形"},{"start":685.76,"end":689.76,"text":"姚思榮 好 那這個勞動部主管機關事後的作為"},{"start":689.76,"end":695.76,"text":"姚思榮 你覺得真的能幫助到被害人獲得正義跟保護嗎"},{"start":695.76,"end":697.76,"text":"姚思榮 那因為法令有規定"},{"start":697.76,"end":699.76,"text":"姚思榮 地方主管機關"},{"start":699.76,"end":706.76,"text":"姚思榮 就是法令有沒有規定到就是說地方主管機關的責任嗎"},{"start":706.76,"end":713.76,"text":"姚思榮 如果沒有的話 法令的部分是否應該要再更強化"},{"start":713.76,"end":722.76,"text":"姚思榮 我們這邊如果是針對到這個性侵害的部分的規定的話"},{"start":722.76,"end":730.76,"text":"姚思榮 你知不知道這個案件被害人後來怎麼了 你知道嗎"},{"start":730.76,"end":735.76,"text":"姚思榮 好 知道 就是自殺生亡"},{"start":735.76,"end":744.76,"text":"姚思榮 所以我才說今天舉這個例子是令人蠻生氣也蠻遺憾的案子"},{"start":744.76,"end":746.76,"text":"姚思榮 那我們今天拿出來做檢討"},{"start":746.76,"end":751.76,"text":"姚思榮 所以在這個勞動部事後的這些作為"},{"start":751.76,"end":757.76,"text":"姚思榮 我們當然在講這個 我沒有辦法去幫助那個已經自殺生亡的被害者"},{"start":757.76,"end":761.76,"text":"姚思榮 但是我們總要在預防未來有這些事情發生"},{"start":761.76,"end":768.76,"text":"姚思榮 所以這些法規的強化應該是很需要的吧"},{"start":769.76,"end":776.76,"text":"姚思榮 是的 如果是針對相關職場性騷擾案件的預防再度的強化"},{"start":776.76,"end":784.76,"text":"姚思榮 我再問你 地方勞動局針對這個職場性侵害的責任通報的對象是不是勞動部"},{"start":787.76,"end":797.76,"text":"姚思榮 地方勞動局他針對這個職場性侵害的責任通報對象是不是勞動部"},{"start":799.76,"end":807.76,"text":"姚思榮 應該不是 他如果是地方收到事業單位的這個通報"},{"start":807.76,"end":814.76,"text":"姚思榮 原則上他不是啦 你也搖頭不用害怕 就講喔"},{"start":814.76,"end":822.76,"text":"姚思榮 原則上不是 他是所在地的這個直轄縣市政府的主管機關"},{"start":822.76,"end":833.76,"text":"姚思榮 當然就是由這個各縣市的這個家庭暴力那個性侵害防治中心來處理"},{"start":833.76,"end":839.76,"text":"姚思榮 所以受理接獲通報之後你們可以的這個行政作為是什麼"},{"start":839.76,"end":844.76,"text":"姚思榮 地方政府這個勞動局很想聯繫有沒有包括警政單位"},{"start":844.76,"end":848.76,"text":"姚思榮 但在過去有沒有聯繫警政單位的案例"},{"start":849.76,"end":857.76,"text":"姚思榮 委員我們這邊如果是在整個通報事業單位通報的系統上面的話"},{"start":857.76,"end":863.76,"text":"姚思榮 我們其實是有註記這個性侵害的案件 轉資的話去勞政 地方勞政"},{"start":863.76,"end":867.76,"text":"姚思榮 他其實也是可以去了解到這個是性侵害的案件"},{"start":867.76,"end":873.76,"text":"姚思榮 那地方他就是收到這樣的一個轉資的案件之後"},{"start":873.76,"end":877.76,"text":"姚思榮 他其實可以進一步再去了解 那至於相關的橫向的部分"},{"start":877.76,"end":882.76,"text":"姚思榮 如果是涉及性侵害可能是地方這邊橫向的一個處理"},{"start":882.76,"end":886.76,"text":"姚思榮 勞政人員就是一個負責通報的人嘛"},{"start":886.76,"end":894.76,"text":"姚思榮 那我今天關心的重點其實就是行政機關的這個事前預防跟事後的作為"},{"start":894.76,"end":898.76,"text":"姚思榮 那性侵害之前幾乎都有性騷擾"},{"start":899.76,"end":903.76,"text":"姚思榮 那在職場上如果說性騷擾防治做得好的話"},{"start":903.76,"end":906.76,"text":"姚思榮 就很難會有後續性侵害的發生"},{"start":906.76,"end":912.76,"text":"姚思榮 那以麥當勞這個案例 勞動局自然有這個職權去裁罰新台幣100萬元的話"},{"start":912.76,"end":916.76,"text":"姚思榮 那表示雇主確實有違反了這個勞動法令嘛"},{"start":916.76,"end":921.76,"text":"姚思榮 那這就表示說我們的職場性騷擾防治他做得不夠啊"},{"start":921.76,"end":924.76,"text":"姚思榮 所以很多勞工朋友他不清楚甚至會擔心"},{"start":924.76,"end":927.76,"text":"姚思榮 怕影響到工作不敢舉發"},{"start":927.76,"end":930.76,"text":"姚思榮 所以也因此造成後續更嚴重的性侵害的發生喔"},{"start":930.76,"end":934.76,"text":"姚思榮 那不幸發生了 那勞動機關幾乎也沒有什麼好的因應作為"},{"start":934.76,"end":938.76,"text":"姚思榮 可以去幫助這個受到侵害的勞工"},{"start":938.76,"end":942.76,"text":"姚思榮 所以讓勞工獨自去面對司法這是很殘酷的事情"},{"start":942.76,"end":943.76,"text":"姚思榮 他們還要自己去舉證"},{"start":943.76,"end":947.76,"text":"姚思榮 所以這樣子就可能 就以這個案例來講"},{"start":947.76,"end":949.76,"text":"姚思榮 它其實就是因為這個證據不足"},{"start":949.76,"end":954.76,"text":"姚思榮 然後讓加害者有機會逃脫其責啦"},{"start":954.76,"end":958.76,"text":"姚思榮 我其實很想跟那個加害者講 就是現在農曆七月"},{"start":958.76,"end":962.76,"text":"姚思榮 很多好兄弟在外面走動 他真的會受到報應"},{"start":962.76,"end":968.76,"text":"姚思榮 那本期在這邊強烈要求 就是社會的調查報告"},{"start":968.76,"end":972.76,"text":"姚思榮 要主動提供給被害者 那可以來幫助勞工捍衛自己的正義"},{"start":972.76,"end":978.76,"text":"姚思榮 那這個部分 我最後我就請你們回去檢討要如何處理"},{"start":978.76,"end":983.76,"text":"姚思榮 好 那否則就是說 勞政單位被監察院他糾正了"},{"start":983.76,"end":989.76,"text":"姚思榮 那糾正完 就是說 並沒有任何的不當之處的話"},{"start":989.76,"end":991.76,"text":"姚思榮 那勞動部你們是不是可以同意喔"},{"start":991.76,"end":994.76,"text":"姚思榮 如果在有這個職場性侵害發生"},{"start":994.76,"end":999.76,"text":"姚思榮 你們卻只能依照這個性騷擾 甚至霸凌 沒有調查跟採訪"},{"start":999.76,"end":1005.76,"text":"姚思榮 那我想這樣的勞動法例 我們到底這個勞工還能夠期待什麼呢"},{"start":1005.76,"end":1011.76,"text":"姚思榮 好 所以這個部分 就今天特別很生氣的在這裡提醒"},{"start":1011.76,"end":1014.76,"text":"姚思榮 就要請你們再加強 好不好"},{"start":1014.76,"end":1016.76,"text":"姚思榮 謝謝委員的槌詢 謝謝"},{"start":1016.76,"end":1019.76,"text":"姚思榮 好 不要忘記那個時間 謝謝"},{"start":1019.76,"end":1021.76,"text":"好 謝謝曾經委員發言 接下來請"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:09:49.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:09:51.950000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，麻煩請勞動部。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T12:09:53.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:09:54.946667+08:00","text":"有請勞動部。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"顧專門委員家容","start":"2026-08-26T12:10:10.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:10:12.680000+08:00","text":"委員好。你好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:10:14.267692+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:10:28.504444+08:00","text":"我們今天要討論性侵害犯罪防治法的修正案，本席在這邊想針對一個很重要但過去卻常被忽略的問題就教。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:10:29.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:10:42.474286+08:00","text":"如果今天一名勞工在工作場所遭到主管性侵害，這是不是能夠算是一個單純的刑事案件？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧專門委員家容","start":"2026-08-26T12:10:44.045714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:10:57.226667+08:00","text":"報告委員，如果依照性工法規定，雇主遇到職場性侵害的案件，它其實也是性工法的性騷擾案件，雇主也是要依性工法……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:10:58.498462+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:11:04.648889+08:00","text":"所以很顯然地答案就是這不是一個單純的刑事案件，不能這樣看待。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:11:06.013333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:11:16.160000+08:00","text":"我們在這邊要進一步確認，除了刑事責任之外，這個案件是不是也可能涉及到性別平等工作法……是。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:11:16.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:11:18.026667+08:00","text":"你剛剛已經有講了。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:11:19.348235+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:11:45.549474+08:00","text":"如果今天是主管利用職權對部屬進行性侵害，而且被害人因此產生了恐懼還有精神壓力，甚至他不敢再繼續去工作，這是不是也可能涉及到職業安全衛生法所處理的執行職務遭受不法侵害？","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"葉簡任技正沛杰","start":"2026-08-26T12:11:47.648889+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:11:56.510000+08:00","text":"委員剛剛所提到的，像性騷擾一樣也是屬於職安法裡面所提到的職場不法侵害。好。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:11:57.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:12:13.529231+08:00","text":"另外，現在職安法已經進一步建立職場霸凌的相關規範了，但是我要在這裡特別釐清，職場性侵害是不是就等於職場霸凌？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉簡任技正沛杰","start":"2026-08-26T12:12:18.283810+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:12:20.569524+08:00","text":"這兩個在定義上是不一樣的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:12:22.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:12:30.360000+08:00","text":"如果不是的話，本席也同意，因為兩者的法律構成要件並不完全相同。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:12:31.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:12:47.524706+08:00","text":"但我要問的是，同一個案件有沒有可能同時成立性侵害、性別平等工作法的權勢性騷擾，以及職場不法侵害甚至職場霸凌？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:12:48.465882+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:13:07.529231+08:00","text":"例如主管性侵害女部屬之後，他利用考績、升遷還有工作分配等威脅被害人，然後要求他不可以講出去，這種情況是不是他同時就跨越了三個法律領域？","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:13:08.391579+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:13:15.524706+08:00","text":"所以如果今天一旦有這樣的犯罪事件，勞動主管機關需不需要介入調查？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉簡任技正沛杰","start":"2026-08-26T12:13:16.289412+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:13:31.602105+08:00","text":"有可能這種不法侵害行為是屬於您剛剛提到的複數行為，雇主就應該依照各自的法令規定，比如依性工法還有目前職安法所定的職場霸凌相關規定去調查。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:13:32.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:13:58.510000+08:00","text":"是，我特別要提一個令人相當生氣的案例，就是之前發生麥當勞的主管性侵害未成年部屬的案子，這個案子在第一審判決是不起訴，理由是罪證不足，隨後這個案子又經高檢署發回更審。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:13:59.375385+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:14:32.572500+08:00","text":"這個案子發生之後，臺北市政府勞動局依照違反性工法規定，對麥當勞開罰新臺幣100萬元，臺灣麥當勞獲報之後，將涉案的這個主管解僱了，但是因為性侵屬於刑事偵查範疇，公司後續僅僅依照性別平等工作法，處理職場性騷擾的調查。","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:14:34.093333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:14:45.444211+08:00","text":"由此可見，職場性侵一定涉及到職場性騷擾，而且也屬於職場霸凌的樣態。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:14:48.586087+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:15:15.560000+08:00","text":"被害者的身體已經受到不法侵害了，可是雇主跟勞動主管機關似乎只能事後調查，而且在傷害發生之後，當事人跟家屬面對司法只能自力救濟，調查結果跟報告也沒有辦法提供給司法機關。","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:15:16.465882+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:15:30.626667+08:00","text":"所以本席要在這裡強烈地建議，行政調查的資料應該要主動提供給受害人跟家屬，在他們面對司法的時候，才可以提供給法院參考。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:15:31.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:15:34.648889+08:00","text":"這樣的建議，我不曉得勞動部的看法是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧專門委員家容","start":"2026-08-26T12:15:35.380690+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:15:40.553103+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，這邊就是針對我們性工法相關的規範提出一些建議。","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"顧專門委員家容","start":"2026-08-26T12:15:42.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:16:07.560000+08:00","text":"依照現在地方主管機關受理工作場所性騷擾事件的申訴處理辦法，第十八條裡面規定，地方主管機關如果受理職場性騷擾案件，做完的處理結果部分，其實是要用書面通知申訴人跟被申訴人。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"顧專門委員家容","start":"2026-08-26T12:16:08.441818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:16:29.537778+08:00","text":"委員進一步有垂詢或建議，為了進一步保障後續申訴人可能就相關司法的一些資源整備，關於這個部分的話，我們會同有關單位，並跟地方再做相關議題的研議。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:16:30.305455+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:16:31.396364+08:00","text":"你們要研議多久？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:16:31.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:16:33.396364+08:00","text":"什麼時候可以研議完成？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧專門委員家容","start":"2026-08-26T12:16:35.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:16:49.855238+08:00","text":"我們可能跟地方再溝通的部分，委員大概可以給我們兩到三個月嗎？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:16:52.322500+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:16:54.572500+08:00","text":"那時候我可能也從這裡畢業了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:16:56.593333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:17:03.545714+08:00","text":"我想是這樣，那你們起碼是不是在兩週內可以啟動、安排這個會議？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:17:04.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:17:13.426667+08:00","text":"你總要開始有動作，不然通常行政機關說兩、三個月，其實有時候都常常壓到很後面。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:17:15.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:17:34.549474+08:00","text":"過去有一些單位，甚至部長都交代了，半年過去了沒有進度，部長又要說對不起，然後重新再要求、押一次日期，往返之間可能一年就過去了。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:17:35.950476+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:17:46.490769+08:00","text":"本席要求你們兩週內是蠻寬限的時間，我只是要求你們要開始啟動這個工作、啟動這個研議。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"顧專門委員家容","start":"2026-08-26T12:17:47.336923+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:17:51.567692+08:00","text":"好，我們就是先規劃這個會議的相關研議。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:17:53.171765+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:18:11.493333+08:00","text":"好，現在是8月，你們啟動之後，我是希望大概在10月中旬可以有一個比較初步的結果。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧專門委員家容","start":"2026-08-26T12:18:12.542609+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:18:17.499130+08:00","text":"好，這邊再把相關的一些研議結果回復委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:18:18.702857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:18:19.331429+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:18:19.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:18:42.574815+08:00","text":"這個案子在最近，當然監察院也針對臺北市政府勞動局提出糾正，指出勞動局接獲通報的時候，沒有落實跨局處的橫向聯繫跟性侵害責任通報，而他們也沒有積極督導雇主提供被害人完整的保護。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:18:43.635000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:18:49.176667+08:00","text":"我想要請教，這樣的理由，勞動部認同嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧專門委員家容","start":"2026-08-26T12:18:51.128421+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:19:36.731429+08:00","text":"回復委員，其實我們勞動部有建置職場性騷擾通報案件的系統，事業單位如果依法受理了性騷擾的案子，就會上去通報，通報系統就會自動轉給地方政府，地方政府收到之後，尤其是針對未滿18歲和性侵害的案件，系統都會標註為警示案件，所以後續地方政府都可以去掌握相關案件的督導和督促。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:19:39.188571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:19:42.402857+08:00","text":"你好像沒有回答我的問題耶！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"顧專門委員家容","start":"2026-08-26T12:19:43.221538+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:19:44.144615+08:00","text":"不好意思，是不是可以請委員再……","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:19:47.523158+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:19:50.681053+08:00","text":"我是問你們認不認同。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:19:51.075789+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:19:59.365263+08:00","text":"你剛剛講的那些都是既定的、本來就規範在那邊的。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"顧專門委員家容","start":"2026-08-26T12:20:01.396364+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:20:04.669091+08:00","text":"不好意思，請委員再……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:20:06.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:20:34.529231+08:00","text":"我是說，監察院有針對臺北市政府勞動局提出糾正，指出勞動局在接獲通報的時候，沒有落實跨局處的橫向聯繫還有性侵害的責任通報，也沒有積極去督導雇主，提供被害人完整的保護。","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:20:35.549474+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:20:39.496842+08:00","text":"我是問你，這樣的理由，你們有沒有認同？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧專門委員家容","start":"2026-08-26T12:20:41.114839+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:21:08.510000+08:00","text":"委員，如果是針對性侵害犯罪防治法第十一條的規定，勞政人員如果在執行職務時，知悉相關案件有涉及性侵害犯罪情事的話，他其實是要去做通報的，所以根據監察院這邊的資料，它糾正臺北市勞動局的重點應該是有這樣的情形。","quality":0.832},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:21:09.391579+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:21:18.499130+08:00","text":"好，那你覺得勞動部主管機關事後的作為真的能幫助到被害人獲得正義和保護嗎？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:21:19.850909+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:21:29.490769+08:00","text":"法令有規定到地方主管機關的責任嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:21:30.673043+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:21:36.455652+08:00","text":"如果沒有的話，法令的部分是否應該要更強化？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧專門委員家容","start":"2026-08-26T12:21:39.183077+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:21:44.721538+08:00","text":"如果是針對性侵害部分的規定，因為……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:21:46.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:21:52.093333+08:00","text":"你知不知道這個案件的被害人後來怎麼了？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:21:52.426667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:21:53.426667+08:00","text":"你知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧專門委員家容","start":"2026-08-26T12:21:55.426667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:21:58.343333+08:00","text":"知道，就是自殺身亡。是。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:21:59.724286+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:22:09.617143+08:00","text":"所以我才說今天舉這個例子是令人滿生氣也滿遺憾的案子，我們今天是把它拿出來檢討。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:22:11.982222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:22:31.410000+08:00","text":"有關勞動部事後的相關作為，我們講這些當然沒有辦法去幫助那個已經自殺身亡的被害者，但是我們總要預防未來再發生這些事情，所以法規的強化應該是很需要的吧？","quality":0.814},{"speaker":"顧專門委員家容","start":"2026-08-26T12:22:33.537778+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:22:39.500741+08:00","text":"是的，如果是針對預防相關職場性騷擾案件的強化，我們可以再……","quality":0.731},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:22:40.445714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:23:00.437419+08:00","text":"我再問你，地方勞動局針對職場性侵害的責任通報對象是不是勞動部？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧專門委員家容","start":"2026-08-26T12:23:00.437419+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T12:23:02.098710+08:00","text":"地方針對……不好意思，委員是說……","quality":0.083},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:23:02.098710+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T12:23:03.760000+08:00","text":"地方勞動局針對職場性侵害的責任通報對象是不是勞動部？","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧專門委員家容","start":"2026-08-26T12:23:03.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:23:04.760000+08:00","text":"應該不是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧專門委員家容","start":"2026-08-26T12:23:05.426667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:23:10.426667+08:00","text":"如果是地方收到事業單位的通報……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:23:11.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:23:13.760000+08:00","text":"原則上它不是啦！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:23:14.093333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:23:19.834074+08:00","text":"你也搖頭，不用害怕，你就講原則上不是。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:23:20.426667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:23:36.416250+08:00","text":"它是所在地直轄市、縣市政府的主管機關，當然就是由各縣市家庭暴力暨性侵害防治中心來處理嘛！是。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:23:37.426667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:23:42.537778+08:00","text":"所以接獲通報之後，你們可以採取的行政作為是什麼？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:23:43.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:23:47.560000+08:00","text":"地方政府勞動局的橫向聯繫有沒有包括警政單位？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:23:48.812632+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:23:51.549474+08:00","text":"過去有沒有聯繫警政單位的案例？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧專門委員家容","start":"2026-08-26T12:23:55.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:24:25.560000+08:00","text":"如果是在整個事業單位通報系統上面的話，我們其實是有註記性侵害的案件，轉知地方勞政，它其實也是可以去瞭解到這個是性侵害的案件，地方收到這樣的轉知案件之後，它其實可以進一步再去瞭解，至於相關橫向聯繫的部分，如果涉及性侵害，可能是地方這邊橫向處理。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:24:26.426667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:24:29.537778+08:00","text":"勞政人員就是負責通報的人嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:24:30.729697+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:24:49.572500+08:00","text":"我今天關心的重點其實就是行政機關的事前預防和事後作為，性侵害之前幾乎都有性騷擾，在職場上，如果性騷擾防治做得好的話，後續就很難會有性侵害的發生。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:24:50.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:25:13.499130+08:00","text":"以麥當勞這個案例，勞動局既然有職權去裁罰新臺幣100萬元，代表雇主確實有違反勞動法令，這就表示我們的職場性騷擾防治做得不夠，所以很多勞工朋友不清楚，甚至會擔心、怕影響到工作而不敢舉發，也因此造成後續更嚴重的性侵害的發生。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:25:14.352593+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:25:26.676667+08:00","text":"不幸發生了，勞動機關幾乎也沒有什麼好的因應作為可以去幫助受到侵害的勞工，讓勞工獨自去面對司法，這是很殘酷的事情，他們還要自己去舉證。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:25:29.286316+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:25:37.171765+08:00","text":"以這個案例來講，其實就是因為證據不足，讓加害者有機會逃脫其責。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:25:38.281739+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:25:45.569524+08:00","text":"我其實很想跟那個加害者講，現在農曆7月，很多好兄弟在外面走動，他真的會受到報應。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:25:46.850909+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:25:55.611852+08:00","text":"本席在這邊強烈要求，事後的調查報告要主動提供給被害者，以幫助勞工捍衛自己的正義。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:25:56.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:26:14.524706+08:00","text":"這個部分最後我就請你們回去檢討要如何處理，否則勞政單位被監察院糾正了，糾正完並沒有任何不當之處的話，勞動部是不是可以同意？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:26:15.322500+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:26:28.553103+08:00","text":"如果再有職場性侵害發生，你們卻只能依照性騷擾甚至霸凌的處理方式，沒有調查和裁罰，對於這樣的勞動法令，勞工到底還能期待什麼呢？","quality":0.754},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:26:30.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:26:37.545714+08:00","text":"針對這個部分，我今天特別很生氣地在這裡提醒，請你們再加強，好不好？","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"顧專門委員家容","start":"2026-08-26T12:26:38.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:26:39.593333+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的垂詢，謝謝。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-08-26T12:26:40.617143+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:26:42.545714+08:00","text":"不要忘記那個時間。謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T12:26:42.913846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:26:43.990769+08:00","text":"謝謝陳瑩委員發言。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T12:26:44.144615+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T12:26:44.606154+08:00","text":"接下來請劉建國委員發言。","quality":0.364}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1360,"blocks":[["陳委員瑩：（12時9分）謝謝主席，麻煩請勞動部。"],["主席：有請勞動部。"],["顧專門委員家容：委員好。"],["陳委員瑩：你好。我們今天要討論性侵害犯罪防治法的修正案，本席在這邊想針對一個很重要但過去卻常被忽略的問題就教。如果今天一名勞工在工作場所遭到主管性侵害，這是不是能夠算是一個單純的刑事案件？"],["顧專門委員家容：報告委員，如果依照性工法規定，雇主遇到職場性侵害的案件，它其實也是性工法的性騷擾案件，雇主也是要依性工法……"],["陳委員瑩：所以很顯然地答案就是這不是一個單純的刑事案件，不能這樣看待。我們在這邊要進一步確認，除了刑事責任之外，這個案件是不是也可能涉及到性別平等工作法……"],["顧專門委員家容：是。"],["陳委員瑩：你剛剛已經有講了。如果今天是主管利用職權對部屬進行性侵害，而且被害人因此產生了恐懼還有精神壓力，甚至他不敢再繼續去工作，這是不是也可能涉及到職業安全衛生法所處理的執行職務遭受不法侵害？"],["葉簡任技正沛杰：委員剛剛所提到的，像性騷擾一樣也是屬於職安法裡面所提到的職場不法侵害。"],["陳委員瑩：好。另外，現在職安法已經進一步建立職場霸凌的相關規範了，但是我要在這裡特別釐清，職場性侵害是不是就等於職場霸凌？"],["葉簡任技正沛杰：這兩個在定義上是不一樣的。"],["陳委員瑩：如果不是的話，本席也同意，因為兩者的法律構成要件並不完全相同。但我要問的是，同一個案件有沒有可能同時成立性侵害、性別平等工作法的權勢性騷擾，以及職場不法侵害甚至職場霸凌？例如主管性侵害女部屬之後，他利用考績、升遷還有工作分配等威脅被害人，然後要求他不可以講出去，這種情況是不是他同時就跨越了三個法律領域？所以如果今天一旦有這樣的犯罪事件，勞動主管機關需不需要介入調查？"],["葉簡任技正沛杰：有可能這種不法侵害行為是屬於您剛剛提到的複數行為，雇主就應該依照各自的法令規定，比如依性工法還有目前職安法所定的職場霸凌相關規定去調查。"],["陳委員瑩：是，我特別要提一個令人相當生氣的案例，就是之前發生麥當勞的主管性侵害未成年部屬的案子，這個案子在第一審判決是不起訴，理由是罪證不足，隨後這個案子又經高檢署發回更審。這個案子發生之後，臺北市政府勞動局依照違反性工法規定，對麥當勞開罰新臺幣100萬元，臺灣麥當勞獲報之後，將涉案的這個主管解僱了，但是因為性侵屬於刑事偵查範疇，公司後續僅僅依照性別平等工作法，處理職場性騷擾的調查。","由此可見，職場性侵一定涉及到職場性騷擾，而且也屬於職場霸凌的樣態。被害者的身體已經受到不法侵害了，可是雇主跟勞動主管機關似乎只能事後調查，而且在傷害發生之後，當事人跟家屬面對司法只能自力救濟，調查結果跟報告也沒有辦法提供給司法機關。所以本席要在這裡強烈地建議，行政調查的資料應該要主動提供給受害人跟家屬，在他們面對司法的時候，才可以提供給法院參考。這樣的建議，我不曉得勞動部的看法是什麼？"],["顧專門委員家容：謝謝委員，這邊就是針對我們性工法相關的規範提出一些建議。依照現在地方主管機關受理工作場所性騷擾事件的申訴處理辦法，第十八條裡面規定，地方主管機關如果受理職場性騷擾案件，做完的處理結果部分，其實是要用書面通知申訴人跟被申訴人。委員進一步有垂詢或建議，為了進一步保障後續申訴人可能就相關司法的一些資源整備，關於這個部分的話，我們會同有關單位，並跟地方再做相關議題的研議。"],["陳委員瑩：你們要研議多久？什麼時候可以研議完成？"],["顧專門委員家容：我們可能跟地方再溝通的部分，委員大概可以給我們兩到三個月嗎？"],["陳委員瑩：那時候我可能也從這裡畢業了。我想是這樣，那你們起碼是不是在兩週內可以啟動、安排這個會議？你總要開始有動作，不然通常行政機關說兩、三個月，其實有時候都常常壓到很後面。過去有一些單位，甚至部長都交代了，半年過去了沒有進度，部長又要說對不起，然後重新再要求、押一次日期，往返之間可能一年就過去了。本席要求你們兩週內是蠻寬限的時間，我只是要求你們要開始啟動這個工作、啟動這個研議。"],["顧專門委員家容：好，我們就是先規劃這個會議的相關研議。"],["陳委員瑩：好，現在是8月，你們啟動之後，我是希望大概在10月中旬可以有一個比較初步的結果。"],["顧專門委員家容：好，這邊再把相關的一些研議結果回復委員。"],["陳委員瑩：好，謝謝。這個案子在最近，當然監察院也針對臺北市政府勞動局提出糾正，指出勞動局接獲通報的時候，沒有落實跨局處的橫向聯繫跟性侵害責任通報，而他們也沒有積極督導雇主提供被害人完整的保護。我想要請教，這樣的理由，勞動部認同嗎？"],["顧專門委員家容：回復委員，其實我們勞動部有建置職場性騷擾通報案件的系統，事業單位如果依法受理了性騷擾的案子，就會上去通報，通報系統就會自動轉給地方政府，地方政府收到之後，尤其是針對未滿18歲和性侵害的案件，系統都會標註為警示案件，所以後續地方政府都可以去掌握相關案件的督導和督促。"],["陳委員瑩：你好像沒有回答我的問題耶！"],["顧專門委員家容：不好意思，是不是可以請委員再……"],["陳委員瑩：我是問你們認不認同。你剛剛講的那些都是既定的、本來就規範在那邊的。"],["顧專門委員家容：不好意思，請委員再……"],["陳委員瑩：我是說，監察院有針對臺北市政府勞動局提出糾正，指出勞動局在接獲通報的時候，沒有落實跨局處的橫向聯繫還有性侵害的責任通報，也沒有積極去督導雇主，提供被害人完整的保護。我是問你，這樣的理由，你們有沒有認同？"],["顧專門委員家容：委員，如果是針對性侵害犯罪防治法第十一條的規定，勞政人員如果在執行職務時，知悉相關案件有涉及性侵害犯罪情事的話，他其實是要去做通報的，所以根據監察院這邊的資料，它糾正臺北市勞動局的重點應該是有這樣的情形。"],["陳委員瑩：好，那你覺得勞動部主管機關事後的作為真的能幫助到被害人獲得正義和保護嗎？法令有規定到地方主管機關的責任嗎？如果沒有的話，法令的部分是否應該要更強化？"],["顧專門委員家容：如果是針對性侵害部分的規定，因為……"],["陳委員瑩：你知不知道這個案件的被害人後來怎麼了？你知道嗎？"],["顧專門委員家容：知道，就是自殺身亡。"],["陳委員瑩：是。所以我才說今天舉這個例子是令人滿生氣也滿遺憾的案子，我們今天是把它拿出來檢討。有關勞動部事後的相關作為，我們講這些當然沒有辦法去幫助那個已經自殺身亡的被害者，但是我們總要預防未來再發生這些事情，所以法規的強化應該是很需要的吧？"],["顧專門委員家容：是的，如果是針對預防相關職場性騷擾案件的強化，我們可以再……"],["陳委員瑩：我再問你，地方勞動局針對職場性侵害的責任通報對象是不是勞動部？"],["顧專門委員家容：地方針對……不好意思，委員是說……"],["陳委員瑩：地方勞動局針對職場性侵害的責任通報對象是不是勞動部？"],["顧專門委員家容：應該不是。如果是地方收到事業單位的通報……"],["陳委員瑩：原則上它不是啦！你也搖頭，不用害怕，你就講原則上不是。它是所在地直轄市、縣市政府的主管機關，當然就是由各縣市家庭暴力暨性侵害防治中心來處理嘛！"],["顧專門委員家容：是。"],["陳委員瑩：所以接獲通報之後，你們可以採取的行政作為是什麼？地方政府勞動局的橫向聯繫有沒有包括警政單位？過去有沒有聯繫警政單位的案例？"],["顧專門委員家容：如果是在整個事業單位通報系統上面的話，我們其實是有註記性侵害的案件，轉知地方勞政，它其實也是可以去瞭解到這個是性侵害的案件，地方收到這樣的轉知案件之後，它其實可以進一步再去瞭解，至於相關橫向聯繫的部分，如果涉及性侵害，可能是地方這邊橫向處理。"],["陳委員瑩：勞政人員就是負責通報的人嘛！我今天關心的重點其實就是行政機關的事前預防和事後作為，性侵害之前幾乎都有性騷擾，在職場上，如果性騷擾防治做得好的話，後續就很難會有性侵害的發生。以麥當勞這個案例，勞動局既然有職權去裁罰新臺幣100萬元，代表雇主確實有違反勞動法令，這就表示我們的職場性騷擾防治做得不夠，所以很多勞工朋友不清楚，甚至會擔心、怕影響到工作而不敢舉發，也因此造成後續更嚴重的性侵害的發生。不幸發生了，勞動機關幾乎也沒有什麼好的因應作為可以去幫助受到侵害的勞工，讓勞工獨自去面對司法，這是很殘酷的事情，他們還要自己去舉證。以這個案例來講，其實就是因為證據不足，讓加害者有機會逃脫其責。我其實很想跟那個加害者講，現在農曆7月，很多好兄弟在外面走動，他真的會受到報應。","本席在這邊強烈要求，事後的調查報告要主動提供給被害者，以幫助勞工捍衛自己的正義。這個部分最後我就請你們回去檢討要如何處理，否則勞政單位被監察院糾正了，糾正完並沒有任何不當之處的話，勞動部是不是可以同意？如果再有職場性侵害發生，你們卻只能依照性騷擾甚至霸凌的處理方式，沒有調查和裁罰，對於這樣的勞動法令，勞工到底還能期待什麼呢？針對這個部分，我今天特別很生氣地在這裡提醒，請你們再加強，好不好？"],["顧專門委員家容：謝謝委員的垂詢，謝謝。"],["陳委員瑩：不要忘記那個時間。謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳瑩委員發言。","接下來請劉建國委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"agendarec_url":null,"pdf_url":"https://ppg.ly.gov.tw/ppg/SittingCommitteesInfo/download/communique1/final/pdf/115/76/LCIDC01_1157601_00003.pdf","meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員會第2次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「性侵害犯罪防治法部分條文修正草案」等10案：(一)委員葉元之等19人擬具「性侵害\n犯罪防治法第五十二條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員黃健豪等23人擬具「性侵害犯罪防治法部分\n條文修正草案」案、(三)委員徐巧芯等16人擬具「性侵害犯罪防治法增訂第三十二條之一條文草\n案」案、( 四) 委員鄭正鈐等22 人擬具「性侵害犯罪防治法增訂第二十八條之一條文草案」案、\n(五)委員吳沛憶等17人擬具「性侵害犯罪防治法增訂第十條之一條文草案」案、(六)委員魯明哲\n等18 人擬具「性侵害犯罪防治法增訂第十一條之一條文草案」案、( 七) 委員魯明哲等18 人擬具\n「性侵害犯罪防治法第二十九條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員陳培瑜等16人擬具「性侵害犯罪防\n治法部分條文修正草案」案、(九)委員王育敏等20人擬具「性侵害犯罪防治法第二十九條及第四\n十三條之一條文修正草案」案、(十)委員張雅琳等16人擬具「性侵害犯罪防治法部分條文修正草\n案」案；二、審查「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」等17案：(一)委員陳亭妃等\n17人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案、(二)委員徐欣瑩等27人擬具「兒\n童及少年性剝削防制條例第三十二條及第三十三條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員張智倫等18人擬\n具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」案、(四)委員廖先翔等17人擬具「兒童及少\n年性剝削防制條例第三十九條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員蔡其昌等17人擬具「兒童及少年性剝\n削防制條例增訂第五十三條之二條文草案」案、(六)委員黃秀芳等18人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削\n防制條例增訂第五十三條之二條文草案」案、(七)委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防\n制條例第十二條、第五十三條之二及第五十五條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具\n「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例增訂第五十三條之二條文草案」案、 ( 九) 委員林俊憲等18 人擬具\n「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例增訂第五十三條之二條文草案」案、( 十) 委員邱議瑩等16 人擬具\n「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例增訂第五十三條之二條文草案」案、(十一)委員林月琴等21人擬具\n「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例增訂第十三條之一及第五十三條之二條文草案」案、(十二)委員王\n育敏等19人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第十二條、第五十三條之二及第五十五條條文修正\n草案」案、(十三)委員范雲等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例增訂第五十三條之二及第五\n十三條之三條文草案」案、(十四)委員陳培瑜等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文\n修正草案」案、(十五)委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例第十二條及第五十三\n條之二條文修正草案」案、(十六)委員林月琴等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文\n修正草案」案、(十七)委員張雅琳等16人擬具「兒童及少年性剝削防制條例部分條文修正草案」\n案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1157601_00003","doc_url":"https://ppg.ly.gov.tw/ppg/download/communique1\\work\\115\\76\\LCIDC01_1157601_00004.doc","page_end":288,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-5-26,36-2","speakers":["林月琴","張智倫","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","黃秀芳","莊瑞雄","盧縣一","范雲","楊瓊瓔","邱慧洳","王正旭","陳瑩","劉建國","涂權吉","沈發惠","蘇清泉","傅崐萁","王育敏","蔡其昌","楊曜","林淑芬","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","吳宗憲","沈伯洋","張雅琳"],"page_start":173,"meetingDate":["2026-08-26"],"gazette_id":"1157601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1157601_00004"],"pdf_page_offset":172}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}