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我們在113年7月起"},{"start":504.2,"end":506.2,"text":"是依各員的"},{"start":506.2,"end":508.2,"text":"申請意願沒有強迫"},{"start":508.2,"end":510.2,"text":"至少補助加至照顧"},{"start":510.32,"end":512.3199999999999,"text":"所以115學員度"},{"start":512.3199999999999,"end":514.3199999999999,"text":"一共核定了637元"},{"start":514.3199999999999,"end":516.3199999999999,"text":"有682人"},{"start":516.3199999999999,"end":518.3199999999999,"text":"增加人力"},{"start":518.3199999999999,"end":520.3199999999999,"text":"這是外加的"},{"start":520.3199999999999,"end":522.3199999999999,"text":"其中有41元是補助2人"},{"start":522.3199999999999,"end":524.3199999999999,"text":"有2元是補助3人"},{"start":524.3199999999999,"end":526.3199999999999,"text":"所有補的人員都必須要符合"},{"start":526.3199999999999,"end":528.3199999999999,"text":"嚴托照顧服務人員"},{"start":528.3199999999999,"end":530.3199999999999,"text":"我現在講的是你們"},{"start":530.3199999999999,"end":532.3199999999999,"text":"今年8月"},{"start":532.3199999999999,"end":534.3199999999999,"text":"今年9月起"},{"start":534.3199999999999,"end":536.3199999999999,"text":"提高第三小時中典費補助是500元"},{"start":536.3199999999999,"end":538.3199999999999,"text":"那也是鼓勵有意提供"},{"start":538.44,"end":540.44,"text":"所以沒有強迫"},{"start":540.44,"end":542.44,"text":"並非要求各員"},{"start":542.44,"end":544.44,"text":"經需配合辦理"},{"start":544.44,"end":546.44,"text":"就是要需要各員自己的人力"},{"start":546.44,"end":548.44,"text":"那你可能要跟公立幼兒宣導一下"},{"start":548.44,"end":550.44,"text":"因為"},{"start":550.44,"end":552.44,"text":"跟我們反應都是"},{"start":552.44,"end":554.44,"text":"老師會擔心"},{"start":554.44,"end":556.44,"text":"說是不是會被強迫"},{"start":556.44,"end":558.44,"text":"他如果有需求"},{"start":558.44,"end":560.44,"text":"人力又不夠 那當然我們可以來協助"},{"start":560.44,"end":562.44,"text":"看一下怎麼協助"},{"start":562.44,"end":564.44,"text":"那再來"},{"start":564.44,"end":566.44,"text":"之前教育部"},{"start":566.5600000000001,"end":568.5600000000001,"text":"有針對國小的"},{"start":568.5600000000001,"end":570.5600000000001,"text":"行政人員跟老師"},{"start":570.5600000000001,"end":572.5600000000001,"text":"有發行政獎金"},{"start":572.5600000000001,"end":574.5600000000001,"text":"後來有延伸到幼兒園的"},{"start":574.5600000000001,"end":576.5600000000001,"text":"正式的教師"},{"start":576.5600000000001,"end":578.5600000000001,"text":"但是教保員這一塊"},{"start":578.5600000000001,"end":580.5600000000001,"text":"就被忽略了"},{"start":580.5600000000001,"end":581.5600000000001,"text":"那我只有看到"},{"start":581.5600000000001,"end":583.5600000000001,"text":"115年4月23號教育部"},{"start":583.5600000000001,"end":585.5600000000001,"text":"是有跟全國的幼教"},{"start":585.5600000000001,"end":587.5600000000001,"text":"產業公會有開過會"},{"start":587.5600000000001,"end":589.5600000000001,"text":"就是說會朝向一致的方向"},{"start":589.5600000000001,"end":591.5600000000001,"text":"跟幼兒園的老師"},{"start":591.5600000000001,"end":593.5600000000001,"text":"一致的方向"},{"start":593.5600000000001,"end":595.5600000000001,"text":"那請問那是4月份的時候"},{"start":595.68,"end":597.68,"text":"講的"},{"start":597.68,"end":599.68,"text":"那很多教保員在問"},{"start":599.68,"end":601.68,"text":"那請問一下這個延議到什麼狀況"},{"start":601.68,"end":603.68,"text":"我來請署長跟你回應"},{"start":603.68,"end":605.68,"text":"來"},{"start":605.68,"end":607.68,"text":"簡正跟委員報告"},{"start":607.68,"end":609.68,"text":"考績的部分因為涉及到整體"},{"start":609.68,"end":611.68,"text":"公教跟那個"},{"start":611.68,"end":613.68,"text":"這個勞基法的適用"},{"start":613.68,"end":615.68,"text":"我們用加薪的方式幫他處理"},{"start":615.68,"end":617.68,"text":"加薪的方式"},{"start":617.68,"end":619.68,"text":"加薪那什麼時候"},{"start":619.68,"end":621.68,"text":"加薪在今年就會處理了"},{"start":621.68,"end":623.68,"text":"今年就已經確定馬上就可以加"},{"start":623.8,"end":625.8,"text":"用加薪的方式"},{"start":625.8,"end":627.8,"text":"幾月開始"},{"start":627.8,"end":629.8,"text":"我們配合修法"},{"start":629.8,"end":631.8,"text":"那我剛才跟委員報告的意思是"},{"start":631.8,"end":633.8,"text":"我們用加薪的方式"},{"start":633.8,"end":635.8,"text":"讓他實質得到"},{"start":635.8,"end":637.8,"text":"這幾月開始嘛"},{"start":637.8,"end":639.8,"text":"4月開始延議到底要延議多久嘛"},{"start":639.8,"end":641.8,"text":"因為這會涉及到"},{"start":641.8,"end":643.8,"text":"修法"},{"start":643.8,"end":645.8,"text":"過程不用講了啦"},{"start":645.8,"end":647.8,"text":"幾月開始講一個答案就好了"},{"start":647.8,"end":649.8,"text":"我們會先修法"},{"start":649.8,"end":651.8,"text":"而且會回溯"},{"start":651.92,"end":653.92,"text":"回溯到幾什麼時候"},{"start":653.92,"end":655.92,"text":"8月1號"},{"start":655.92,"end":657.92,"text":"就是115學年"},{"start":657.92,"end":659.92,"text":"當時我們有答應說"},{"start":659.92,"end":661.92,"text":"115學年"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:46:04.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:46:06.824615+08:00","text":"主席好，麻煩請教育部次長，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T14:46:08.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:46:09.510000+08:00","text":"有請次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-08-26T14:46:11.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:46:11.853333+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:46:12.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:46:12.632000+08:00","text":"次長好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:46:13.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:46:21.960000+08:00","text":"我想一開始還是先關心缺老師的問題，因為開學在即，教育部也一直在努力解決這個問題嗎？有嗎？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-08-26T14:46:22.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:46:25.520000+08:00","text":"我們每個禮拜都跟縣市政府的主管聯絡，都有……","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:46:25.520000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T14:46:26.613333+08:00","text":"都有在做？對。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:46:26.613333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:46:39.126154+08:00","text":"你們缺老師的數字當然是在逐漸地縮小當中，但是這個數字到底是因為有補到老師，還是因為學校已經找到人力？","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:46:39.613333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:46:45.049231+08:00","text":"兩者不太一樣，人力的部分有可能是請正式的老師去補那些鐘點嘛！對。","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:46:45.565714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:46:48.057778+08:00","text":"他補了之後，當然就少缺一個人嘛！對。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:46:48.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:46:53.030000+08:00","text":"你的狀況是都有找到人，還是找到人補那個鐘點了，是哪一個？","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-08-26T14:46:53.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:47:27.520000+08:00","text":"其實在開學前那個數字都會不斷在滾動，所以我們國教署現在幾乎每天都會跟地方政府聯絡，就是他們可能有代理教師考上正式的而又出缺了，他們不斷滾動在招，到昨天為止（8月25日），目前各縣市政府統計通報的是缺614，裡面國小是211，國中是403，去年同期是缺1,429……","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:47:28.805714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:47:36.320000+08:00","text":"次長，我提醒一下，我是有聽到你們的數字減少有一些原因是因為找正式老師去補，讓正式老師……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-08-26T14:47:36.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:47:39.305714+08:00","text":"當然我們都鼓勵地方政府用正式的……","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:47:39.305714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T14:47:40.305714+08:00","text":"等一下。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:47:39.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:47:57.390000+08:00","text":"讓正式老師有超鐘點的狀況，有一些老師現在都還在猶豫，想說接了那麼多課，是不是乾脆丟假單，就是留職停薪，所以你如果一直要求學校裡面的老師去超鐘點的話，會出現我說的這個狀況……","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-08-26T14:47:57.390000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T14:47:58.390000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:47:57.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:48:01.417778+08:00","text":"他們可能會連原本可以上課的老師都減少，這個我提醒，好不好？對。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:48:02.211429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:48:15.528889+08:00","text":"第二個，現在我看到很多學校也都說要去找退休老師回來兼課，但退休老師回來兼課就會遇到之前我和羅廷瑋曾經提案的狀況，其實那時候我們是想要解決缺老師的問題。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:48:15.925714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:48:46.664762+08:00","text":"因為退休老師要回來兼課，第一個，兼課有上限，有的是9個小時，如果他們要回來兼課，比如創新能力或代理教師，就是領月薪，還會遇到超過再就業薪資上限的狀況，因為退休老師回來上課的再就業薪資上限是最低薪資2萬9,500，所以當時我們有提一個案，就是為了要解決校園人力不足的問題，希望是不是可以把這個再就業的天花板打開去補？","quality":0.849},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:48:46.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:48:54.762353+08:00","text":"至少可以成為一個即戰力，所以現在很多學校都拜託退休老師回來。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:48:54.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:49:06.726154+08:00","text":"結果那時候民進黨立委就罵我們，說我們是要養雙薪肥貓，我們非常不服氣，因為我們是要解決校園的問題，而且養肥貓也是民進黨在養，我又不是執政黨，我養什麼肥貓！","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:49:07.013333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:49:12.594286+08:00","text":"現在我們確實就面臨到這個狀況，我秀幾個簡訊給你看。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:49:12.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:49:17.495385+08:00","text":"像這個簡訊，這個人說他是軍職退伍，住高雄旗山。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:49:17.649231+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:49:18.726154+08:00","text":"還不是我這一區的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:49:19+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:49:26.818182+08:00","text":"他說他去一個學校應徵，那個學校已經三招了，可是因為他也是停俸標準的問題，所以他就沒有辦法去應聘。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:49:27+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:49:42.800000+08:00","text":"不只這個，還有很多，像有人是想要去參加教育局的充實行政人力計畫甄選，但是依照規定，因為這個充實人力計畫超過3萬8,130，所以他也沒有辦法應徵。","quality":0.787},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:49:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:49:50.977143+08:00","text":"所以你把軍公教再就業薪資的天花板打開，實際上是可以擴充人力的，這個絕對不是養雙薪肥貓。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:49:52.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:49:58.786667+08:00","text":"次長，請問一下，這些軍公教願意回來幫忙，多兼幾堂課，是很涼的缺嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:49:59.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:50:01.024762+08:00","text":"如果在學校是這麼涼的缺，為什麼大家不想當老師？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-08-26T14:50:01.735385+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:50:06.920000+08:00","text":"其實我們也有在研議，就怎麼樣能夠讓再回到學校的老師……","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:50:06.920000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T14:50:09.120000+08:00","text":"你們來提一個版……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-08-26T14:50:09.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:50:18.240000+08:00","text":"外界也會質疑有雙薪的問題，但是我們有一些規定是人事總處規定的，說他最高不得領多少……次長……","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-08-26T14:50:19.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:50:20.573333+08:00","text":"這個細節我請署長來跟你說明。","quality":0.385},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:50:21.811429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:50:26.954286+08:00","text":"次長，他們就是回來幫忙，很多是被拜託回來的，這是一個爽缺嗎？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:50:27.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:50:28.954286+08:00","text":"是一個肥貓缺嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:50:29.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:50:31.017778+08:00","text":"是拜託回來的，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-08-26T14:50:31.017778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T14:50:32.017778+08:00","text":"我想老師願意回來當然是非常……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:50:31.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:50:33.040000+08:00","text":"大家很務實的討論問題啦！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:50:33.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:50:36.906667+08:00","text":"但是很多東西是在野黨提的就先罵再講……沒有……","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:50:37.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:50:43.097143+08:00","text":"所以教育部如果想要擴充這個人力，我希望你們提一個版本出來，我們來討論，好不好？","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:50:43.097143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T14:50:45.360000+08:00","text":"就不會流於口水戰，我們想解決問題，結果被扣帽子，對不對？","quality":0.292},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-08-26T14:50:45.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:50:55.931429+08:00","text":"去年我們被外界講代理教師之亂，說到開學前還缺很多，所以我們今年特別重視，今年剩下六百多個，整個教師整備率是99.58%……","quality":0.725},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:50:57.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:51:03.026667+08:00","text":"你這樣講，我想可能很多老師會覺得很好笑……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-08-26T14:51:03.026667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T14:51:04.026667+08:00","text":"不會、不會、不會，我講的數字是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:51:03.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:51:11.480000+08:00","text":"因為現在教育環境是越來越惡化，越來越多人不想當老師，結果你說你現在做得很棒，我想……","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-08-26T14:51:11.480000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T14:51:13.480000+08:00","text":"我們沒有說做得很棒，我們說達到99.58%了……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:51:13.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:51:15.146667+08:00","text":"好，我是具體建議，好不好？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:51:15.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:51:19.257778+08:00","text":"第一個，因為現在很多學校都在請退休老師回來幫忙，好不好？","quality":0.68},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:51:19.646667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:51:37.280000+08:00","text":"針對剛剛我講的再就業薪資的天花板，你提一個，我們來討論，我們是有提，但是被罵，說要養雙薪肥貓，那些老師被汙名化，說是肥貓，我們也於心不忍，為什麼他們回來幫忙被汙名化成肥貓，所以請教育部提，我們來解決校園的問題，好不好？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-08-26T14:51:37.280000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T14:51:38.280000+08:00","text":"好，我們請國教署來提。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:51:38.146667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:51:47.350000+08:00","text":"再來，缺老師有一個很關鍵的就是校事會議，之前我們有把校事會議辦法退回，請你們在兩個月之內重新修訂送來，現在進度怎麼樣？","quality":0.648},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-08-26T14:51:47.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:51:51.377778+08:00","text":"我們已經在研議，至於程序上，我們請署長來說明。可以。","quality":0.682},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-08-26T14:51:51.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:52:15.520000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告一下，當時有跟委員報告兩個面向，一個面向是修那個辦法，一個面向是四個配套措施，現在四個配套措施已經在進行，至於修辦法的部分，我們慢慢會研議出草案，再跟相關的教師組織、家長組織，還有校長組織，以及地方政府四個團體，大家一起來共商……","quality":0.832},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:52:15.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:52:18.386667+08:00","text":"兩個月之內一定要送來。一定。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:52:18.386667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T14:52:19.386667+08:00","text":"一定喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-08-26T14:52:19.386667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T14:52:20.386667+08:00","text":"對、對，因為已經有決議了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:52:19.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:52:21.566154+08:00","text":"你保證會送一個更好的版本過來，好不好？","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-08-26T14:52:21.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:52:23.434286+08:00","text":"會跟委員這邊配合。OK。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:52:24.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:52:59.554286+08:00","text":"再來，次長，你看，現在你們都在開校長會議，包括國中、高中，校長會議聚焦AI，鄭英耀籲培養獨立思考能力，我覺得AI也蠻棒的，討論這個也不錯，可是現在不管是高中、國中或是國小的校長每天都在煩惱缺老師，結果你在這種校長會議裡面不討論這個議題，只討論AI，我沒有說不要討論AI，AI也很棒，但你們根本連缺老師的問題都沒有討論，所以你說你們都一直很積極在解決這個問題，我也是覺得很怪！","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:52:59.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:53:03.640000+08:00","text":"我希望你們真的要解決，這個事情大家都很憂心……","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-08-26T14:53:03.640000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T14:53:05.960000+08:00","text":"我們常常在面對這個問題，有處理，沒有不處理。OK。","quality":0.238},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:53:05.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:53:09.737778+08:00","text":"再來，關於公立幼兒園，我反映兩件事，好不好？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:53:09.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:53:39.680000+08:00","text":"第一個，因為教育部8月的時候有修正公立幼兒園的延長照顧規定，結果有些教保員跟我們反映，因為現在等於是要讓孩子待到7點，當然教育部這樣做立意良善，是想要解決爸媽的小朋友托育問題，但是如果配套沒有做好的話，衍生的問題就是這些教保員也是有家庭，他們怎麼辦？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:53:40.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:53:41.898182+08:00","text":"他們變成要照顧別人的孩子，他們自己……","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-08-26T14:53:41.898182+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T14:53:42.898182+08:00","text":"跟委員報告……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:53:42.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:53:43.830000+08:00","text":"等一下，我還沒講完，等一下……好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:53:44.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:54:20.033333+08:00","text":"我有去了解一下現在幼兒園實際上的做法大概是怎麼樣，當然可以先外聘人力來補這個多的小時，但是如果補不到的話，就要由現有人力直接去補，所以有一些幼教老師或者是教保員可能已經提早上班，也是配合家長的托育，7點鐘上班，晚上可能又會延到7點，就會造成上班時間很長，沒有辦法照顧自己家庭的問題，這個配套教育部有任何辦法出來嗎？","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-08-26T14:54:20.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:54:46.070000+08:00","text":"有，113年7月起，我們依各園的申請意願，沒有強迫，補助加置照顧服務人員人事費，115學年度一共核定637園，有682名增加人力，這是外加的，其中41園是補助2人，2園是補助3人，所有補的人員都必須要符合延托照顧服務人員的資格……","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:54:46.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:54:49.653333+08:00","text":"我現在講的是你們今年8月……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-08-26T14:54:50.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:54:51.820000+08:00","text":"對，今年9月起是開始……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:54:51.820000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T14:54:52.820000+08:00","text":"9月起開始做的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-08-26T14:54:52.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:54:56.097778+08:00","text":"對，提高第3小時鐘點費，補助是500元，也是鼓勵有意提供第3小時……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:54:56.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:54:56.773333+08:00","text":"所以沒有強迫？","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-08-26T14:54:56.773333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T14:54:57.773333+08:00","text":"沒有強迫。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:54:57.106667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:54:58.106667+08:00","text":"沒有強迫。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-08-26T14:54:58.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:55:02.106667+08:00","text":"並非要求各園均須配合辦理。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:55:02.106667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T14:55:03.106667+08:00","text":"你有沒有去宣導？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-08-26T14:55:02.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:55:04.273333+08:00","text":"就是要視各園自己的人力來……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:55:04.582857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:55:06.297143+08:00","text":"你可能要跟各公立幼兒園宣導一下，好不好？好。","quality":0.684},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:55:06.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:55:14.190000+08:00","text":"因為跟我們反映的都是幼教老師，老師擔心會被強迫。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-08-26T14:55:14.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:55:20.154286+08:00","text":"他如果有需求，人力又不夠，當然我們也可以來協助，看要怎麼樣來協助。好。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:55:21.106667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:55:54.680000+08:00","text":"再來，之前教育部有針對國小的行政人員及老師發行政獎金，後來有延伸到幼兒園的正式教師，但是教保員這一塊就被忽略，我是有看到115年4月23日教育部有跟全國幼教產業工會開過會，說會朝向跟幼兒園老師一致的方向，可是那是4月的時候講的……對。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:55:55.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:55:59.537143+08:00","text":"很多教保員在問，請問一下，這個研議到什麼狀況了？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-08-26T14:55:59.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:56:01.457778+08:00","text":"我請署長跟你回應。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-08-26T14:56:03.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:56:13.513333+08:00","text":"簡單跟委員報告，考績的部分，因為涉及到整體公教與勞基法的適用，我們用加薪的方式幫他處理……","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:56:13.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:56:17.394286+08:00","text":"加薪，什麼時候？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-08-26T14:56:17.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:56:19.833846+08:00","text":"加薪在今年就會處理了。今年？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-08-26T14:56:20.141538+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:56:21.526154+08:00","text":"今年已經確定，馬上就可以加……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:56:21.526154+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T14:56:22.526154+08:00","text":"馬上就可以。","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-08-26T14:56:21.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:56:23.466667+08:00","text":"加薪，用加薪的方式……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:56:23.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:56:25.300000+08:00","text":"幾月開始？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-08-26T14:56:25.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:56:33.466667+08:00","text":"我們配合修法，我剛才跟委員報告的意思是我們用加薪的方式讓他實質得到……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:56:34.133333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:56:35.133333+08:00","text":"對，幾月開始？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:56:35.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:56:37.492308+08:00","text":"人家就是問，4月開始研議，到底要研議多久？","quality":0.588},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:56:37.492308+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T14:56:38.492308+08:00","text":"你幾月開始幫他加薪？","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-08-26T14:56:37.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:56:40.800000+08:00","text":"因為這個會涉及到修法，我們……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:56:41.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:56:43.228571+08:00","text":"過程不用講了……","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-08-26T14:56:43.228571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T14:56:44.228571+08:00","text":"沒問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:56:43.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:56:45.633333+08:00","text":"幾月開始，講一個答案就好了，幾月開始？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-08-26T14:56:45.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:56:49.400000+08:00","text":"我們會先修法，而且會回溯……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:56:49.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:56:51.670000+08:00","text":"會回溯，回溯到什麼時候？8月1日。","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-08-26T14:56:51.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:56:55.420000+08:00","text":"會回溯到8月1號，就是115學年。115學年？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-08-26T14:56:55.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T14:56:58.920000+08:00","text":"對，當時我們有答應115學年，謝謝。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-26T14:56:59.420000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T14:57:00.562857+08:00","text":"OK，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T14:57:00.862857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T14:57:02.862857+08:00","text":"謝謝葉元之委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T14:57:03.162857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T14:57:05.734286+08:00","text":"下一位請蔡春綢委員。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":381,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（14時46分）主席好，麻煩請教育部次長，謝謝。"],["主席：有請次長。"],["張廖次長萬堅：委員好。"],["葉委員元之：次長好。我想一開始還是先關心缺老師的問題，因為開學在即，教育部也一直在努力解決這個問題嗎？有嗎？"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們每個禮拜都跟縣市政府的主管聯絡，都有……"],["葉委員元之：都有在做？"],["張廖次長萬堅：對。"],["葉委員元之：你們缺老師的數字當然是在逐漸地縮小當中，但是這個數字到底是因為有補到老師，還是因為學校已經找到人力？兩者不太一樣，人力的部分有可能是請正式的老師去補那些鐘點嘛！"],["張廖次長萬堅：對。"],["葉委員元之：他補了之後，當然就少缺一個人嘛！"],["張廖次長萬堅：對。"],["葉委員元之：你的狀況是都有找到人，還是找到人補那個鐘點了，是哪一個？"],["張廖次長萬堅：其實在開學前那個數字都會不斷在滾動，所以我們國教署現在幾乎每天都會跟地方政府聯絡，就是他們可能有代理教師考上正式的而又出缺了，他們不斷滾動在招，到昨天為止（8月25日），目前各縣市政府統計通報的是缺614，裡面國小是211，國中是403，去年同期是缺1,429……"],["葉委員元之：次長，我提醒一下，我是有聽到你們的數字減少有一些原因是因為找正式老師去補，讓正式老師……"],["張廖次長萬堅：當然我們都鼓勵地方政府用正式的……"],["葉委員元之：等一下。讓正式老師有超鐘點的狀況，有一些老師現在都還在猶豫，想說接了那麼多課，是不是乾脆丟假單，就是留職停薪，所以你如果一直要求學校裡面的老師去超鐘點的話，會出現我說的這個狀況……"],["張廖次長萬堅：跟委員報告……"],["葉委員元之：他們可能會連原本可以上課的老師都減少，這個我提醒，好不好？"],["張廖次長萬堅：對。"],["葉委員元之：第二個，現在我看到很多學校也都說要去找退休老師回來兼課，但退休老師回來兼課就會遇到之前我和羅廷瑋曾經提案的狀況，其實那時候我們是想要解決缺老師的問題。因為退休老師要回來兼課，第一個，兼課有上限，有的是9個小時，如果他們要回來兼課，比如創新能力或代理教師，就是領月薪，還會遇到超過再就業薪資上限的狀況，因為退休老師回來上課的再就業薪資上限是最低薪資2萬9,500，所以當時我們有提一個案，就是為了要解決校園人力不足的問題，希望是不是可以把這個再就業的天花板打開去補？至少可以成為一個即戰力，所以現在很多學校都拜託退休老師回來。結果那時候民進黨立委就罵我們，說我們是要養雙薪肥貓，我們非常不服氣，因為我們是要解決校園的問題，而且養肥貓也是民進黨在養，我又不是執政黨，我養什麼肥貓！","現在我們確實就面臨到這個狀況，我秀幾個簡訊給你看。像這個簡訊，這個人說他是軍職退伍，住高雄旗山。還不是我這一區的。他說他去一個學校應徵，那個學校已經三招了，可是因為他也是停俸標準的問題，所以他就沒有辦法去應聘。不只這個，還有很多，像有人是想要去參加教育局的充實行政人力計畫甄選，但是依照規定，因為這個充實人力計畫超過3萬8,130，所以他也沒有辦法應徵。","所以你把軍公教再就業薪資的天花板打開，實際上是可以擴充人力的，這個絕對不是養雙薪肥貓。次長，請問一下，這些軍公教願意回來幫忙，多兼幾堂課，是很涼的缺嗎？如果在學校是這麼涼的缺，為什麼大家不想當老師？"],["張廖次長萬堅：其實我們也有在研議，就怎麼樣能夠讓再回到學校的老師……"],["葉委員元之：你們來提一個版……"],["張廖次長萬堅：外界也會質疑有雙薪的問題，但是我們有一些規定是人事總處規定的，說他最高不得領多少……"],["葉委員元之：次長……"],["張廖次長萬堅：這個細節我請署長來跟你說明。"],["葉委員元之：次長，他們就是回來幫忙，很多是被拜託回來的，這是一個爽缺嗎？是一個肥貓缺嗎？是拜託回來的，好不好？"],["張廖次長萬堅：我想老師願意回來當然是非常……"],["葉委員元之：大家很務實的討論問題啦！但是很多東西是在野黨提的就先罵再講……"],["張廖次長萬堅：沒有……"],["葉委員元之：所以教育部如果想要擴充這個人力，我希望你們提一個版本出來，我們來討論，好不好？就不會流於口水戰，我們想解決問題，結果被扣帽子，對不對？"],["張廖次長萬堅：去年我們被外界講代理教師之亂，說到開學前還缺很多，所以我們今年特別重視，今年剩下六百多個，整個教師整備率是99.58%……"],["葉委員元之：你這樣講，我想可能很多老師會覺得很好笑……"],["張廖次長萬堅：不會、不會、不會，我講的數字是……"],["葉委員元之：因為現在教育環境是越來越惡化，越來越多人不想當老師，結果你說你現在做得很棒，我想……"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們沒有說做得很棒，我們說達到99.58%了……"],["葉委員元之：好，我是具體建議，好不好？第一個，因為現在很多學校都在請退休老師回來幫忙，好不好？針對剛剛我講的再就業薪資的天花板，你提一個，我們來討論，我們是有提，但是被罵，說要養雙薪肥貓，那些老師被汙名化，說是肥貓，我們也於心不忍，為什麼他們回來幫忙被汙名化成肥貓，所以請教育部提，我們來解決校園的問題，好不好？"],["張廖次長萬堅：好，我們請國教署來提。"],["葉委員元之：再來，缺老師有一個很關鍵的就是校事會議，之前我們有把校事會議辦法退回，請你們在兩個月之內重新修訂送來，現在進度怎麼樣？"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們已經在研議，至於程序上，我們請署長來說明。"],["葉委員元之：可以。"],["彭署長富源：跟委員報告一下，當時有跟委員報告兩個面向，一個面向是修那個辦法，一個面向是四個配套措施，現在四個配套措施已經在進行，至於修辦法的部分，我們慢慢會研議出草案，再跟相關的教師組織、家長組織，還有校長組織，以及地方政府四個團體，大家一起來共商……"],["葉委員元之：兩個月之內一定要送來。"],["彭署長富源：一定。"],["葉委員元之：一定喔！"],["彭署長富源：對、對，因為已經有決議了。"],["葉委員元之：你保證會送一個更好的版本過來，好不好？"],["彭署長富源：會跟委員這邊配合。"],["葉委員元之：OK。再來，次長，你看，現在你們都在開校長會議，包括國中、高中，校長會議聚焦AI，鄭英耀籲培養獨立思考能力，我覺得AI也蠻棒的，討論這個也不錯，可是現在不管是高中、國中或是國小的校長每天都在煩惱缺老師，結果你在這種校長會議裡面不討論這個議題，只討論AI，我沒有說不要討論AI，AI也很棒，但你們根本連缺老師的問題都沒有討論，所以你說你們都一直很積極在解決這個問題，我也是覺得很怪！我希望你們真的要解決，這個事情大家都很憂心……"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們常常在面對這個問題，有處理，沒有不處理。"],["葉委員元之：OK。再來，關於公立幼兒園，我反映兩件事，好不好？第一個，因為教育部8月的時候有修正公立幼兒園的延長照顧規定，結果有些教保員跟我們反映，因為現在等於是要讓孩子待到7點，當然教育部這樣做立意良善，是想要解決爸媽的小朋友托育問題，但是如果配套沒有做好的話，衍生的問題就是這些教保員也是有家庭，他們怎麼辦？他們變成要照顧別人的孩子，他們自己……"],["張廖次長萬堅：跟委員報告……"],["葉委員元之：等一下，我還沒講完，等一下……"],["張廖次長萬堅：好。"],["葉委員元之：我有去了解一下現在幼兒園實際上的做法大概是怎麼樣，當然可以先外聘人力來補這個多的小時，但是如果補不到的話，就要由現有人力直接去補，所以有一些幼教老師或者是教保員可能已經提早上班，也是配合家長的托育，7點鐘上班，晚上可能又會延到7點，就會造成上班時間很長，沒有辦法照顧自己家庭的問題，這個配套教育部有任何辦法出來嗎？"],["張廖次長萬堅：有，113年7月起，我們依各園的申請意願，沒有強迫，補助加置照顧服務人員人事費，115學年度一共核定637園，有682名增加人力，這是外加的，其中41園是補助2人，2園是補助3人，所有補的人員都必須要符合延托照顧服務人員的資格……"],["葉委員元之：我現在講的是你們今年8月……"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，今年9月起是開始……"],["葉委員元之：9月起開始做的。"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，提高第3小時鐘點費，補助是500元，也是鼓勵有意提供第3小時……"],["葉委員元之：所以沒有強迫？"],["張廖次長萬堅：沒有強迫。"],["葉委員元之：沒有強迫。"],["張廖次長萬堅：並非要求各園均須配合辦理。"],["葉委員元之：你有沒有去宣導？"],["張廖次長萬堅：就是要視各園自己的人力來……"],["葉委員元之：你可能要跟各公立幼兒園宣導一下，好不好？"],["張廖次長萬堅：好。"],["葉委員元之：因為跟我們反映的都是幼教老師，老師擔心會被強迫。"],["張廖次長萬堅：他如果有需求，人力又不夠，當然我們也可以來協助，看要怎麼樣來協助。"],["葉委員元之：好。再來，之前教育部有針對國小的行政人員及老師發行政獎金，後來有延伸到幼兒園的正式教師，但是教保員這一塊就被忽略，我是有看到115年4月23日教育部有跟全國幼教產業工會開過會，說會朝向跟幼兒園老師一致的方向，可是那是4月的時候講的……"],["張廖次長萬堅：對。"],["葉委員元之：很多教保員在問，請問一下，這個研議到什麼狀況了？"],["張廖次長萬堅：我請署長跟你回應。"],["彭署長富源：簡單跟委員報告，考績的部分，因為涉及到整體公教與勞基法的適用，我們用加薪的方式幫他處理……"],["葉委員元之：加薪，什麼時候？"],["彭署長富源：加薪在今年就會處理了。"],["葉委員元之：今年？"],["彭署長富源：今年已經確定，馬上就可以加……"],["葉委員元之：馬上就可以。"],["彭署長富源：加薪，用加薪的方式……"],["葉委員元之：幾月開始？"],["彭署長富源：我們配合修法，我剛才跟委員報告的意思是我們用加薪的方式讓他實質得到……"],["葉委員元之：對，幾月開始？人家就是問，4月開始研議，到底要研議多久？你幾月開始幫他加薪？"],["彭署長富源：因為這個會涉及到修法，我們……"],["葉委員元之：過程不用講了……"],["彭署長富源：沒問題。"],["葉委員元之：幾月開始，講一個答案就好了，幾月開始？"],["彭署長富源：我們會先修法，而且會回溯……"],["葉委員元之：會回溯，回溯到什麼時候？"],["張廖次長萬堅：8月1日。"],["彭署長富源：會回溯到8月1號，就是115學年。"],["葉委員元之：115學年？"],["彭署長富源：對，當時我們有答應115學年，謝謝。"],["葉委員元之：OK，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝葉元之委員。","下一位請蔡春綢委員。"]],"agenda":{"agendarec_url":null,"pdf_url":null,"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第28次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、繼續審查(一)委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具「電子競技運動發展基本法草案」案、(二)委員葛如鈞\n等18人擬具「電子競技運動發展基本法草案」案、(三)委員廖偉翔等20人擬具「電子競技運動發\n展基本法草案」案、(四)委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「電子競技運動發展基本法草案」案、(五)台灣\n民眾黨黨團擬具「電子競技運動促進法草案」案；二、審查委員羅智強等17人擬具「電子競技運\n動發展基本法草案」案（逐條審查）；三、審查(一)委員林月琴等16人擬具「教保服務人員條例\n第三十三條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員李彥秀等16人擬具「教保服務人員條例第十五條、第十\n六條及第十七條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員王育敏等21人擬具「教保服務人員條例部分條文修\n正草案」案、( 四) 委員林月琴等28 人擬具「教保服務人員條例第三十三條條文修正草案」案、\n(五)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教保服務人員條例部分條文修正草案」案、(六)委員陳冠廷等16人\n擬具「教保服務人員條例增訂第二十三條之一條文草案」案、(七)委員廖偉翔等19人擬具「教保\n服務人員條例部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1157601_00002","doc_url":null,"page_end":172,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-22-28","speakers":["羅廷瑋","羅智強","陳培瑜","吳沛憶","葉元之","蔡春綢","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳秀寳","吳思瑤","傅崐萁","林宜瑾","徐欣瑩","林月琴"],"page_start":61,"meetingDate":["2026-08-26"],"gazette_id":"1157601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1157601_00003"],"pdf_page_offset":60}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}