{"error":false,"id":["171178"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":171178,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/171178","日期":"2026-08-27","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-5-23","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期第23次會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":23,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"第11屆第5會期第23次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-08-27T13:12:15+08:00","結束時間":"2026-08-27T13:15:59+08:00","影片長度":"00:03:44","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/dd90fb557ea83e3535be31d7d6359cb622ae8c2b20ff4935817a8386a2323c0f20b7ea364581afcb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"13:12:15 - 13:15:59","會議時間":"2026-08-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第5會期第23次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院台灣民眾黨黨團，建請院會作成決議：「為維護國會尊嚴、捍衛國家憲政體制，對行政院院長卓榮泰提出嚴厲之譴責案。正告賴清德總統與卓榮泰院長應立即停止違法濫權『不副署、不公布、不執行』之行徑，回歸憲政運作之基本秩序，切勿成為台灣民主史上最惡劣之權力怪獸。」是否有當？請公決案等35案。二、8月21日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":0.9422187500000001,"end":2.22471875,"speaker_score":0.747},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":2.30909375,"end":4.4353437499999995,"speaker_score":0.747},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":25.57971875,"end":28.63409375,"speaker_score":0.747},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":29.17409375,"end":32.90346875,"speaker_score":0.747},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":33.24096875,"end":53.03534375,"speaker_score":0.747},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":53.102843750000005,"end":59.768468750000004,"speaker_score":0.747},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":59.970968750000004,"end":68.23971875000001,"speaker_score":0.747},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":68.45909375000001,"end":103.84596875000001,"speaker_score":0.747},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":104.13284375,"end":134.57534375,"speaker_score":0.747},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.65971875000001,"end":108.31784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":134.72721875000002,"end":136.33034375,"speaker_score":0.747},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":136.85346875000002,"end":154.23471875,"speaker_score":0.747},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":154.77471875,"end":172.03784375,"speaker_score":0.747},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":172.18971875,"end":196.15221875,"speaker_score":0.747},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":196.65846875000003,"end":210.59721875000002,"speaker_score":0.747},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":215.40659375,"end":215.47409375,"speaker_score":0.747},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":215.50784375,"end":215.59221875,"speaker_score":0.747},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":217.92096875000001,"end":217.93784375,"speaker_score":0.747},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":217.97159375,"end":218.07284375,"speaker_score":0.747},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":219.96284375000002,"end":222.35909375000003,"speaker_score":0.747},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":223.23659375000003,"end":224.28284375,"speaker_score":0.747}],"whisperx":[{"start":0,"end":4.6000000000000005,"text":"請莊委員瑞雄發言"},{"start":25.6,"end":28.8,"text":"主席 各位在場的委員 各位媒體朋友"},{"start":29.2,"end":32.8,"text":"整個無人載具 整個產業的發展"},{"start":33.3,"end":36.6,"text":"民主進步黨 其實從各個政黨"},{"start":36.6,"end":38.8,"text":"我們所提出的這14個版本裡面"},{"start":39.2,"end":42.1,"text":"各個政黨對於整個無人機產業的一個發展"},{"start":42.4,"end":44.6,"text":"大家嘴巴講的 全部都沒有意見"},{"start":44.8,"end":47.900000000000006,"text":"那實質上到底有沒有用行動去支持"},{"start":48.2,"end":49.7,"text":"我看今天的一個條文裡面"},{"start":49.7,"end":51.6,"text":"可以揭示的非常的清楚"},{"start":52,"end":56.2,"text":"在整個各個黨團所提出的這些版本裡面"},{"start":56.5,"end":59.7,"text":"大家開宗明義講的 第一句話全部講的都是國防自主"},{"start":60,"end":61.800000000000004,"text":"但是國防自主裡面"},{"start":62.2,"end":65.3,"text":"前任院長提出的版本裡面"},{"start":65.60000000000001,"end":68.2,"text":"7個條文其實揭示的非常清楚"},{"start":68.5,"end":72.10000000000001,"text":"國防戰力的一個提升 國防戰力的一個形成"},{"start":72.4,"end":74.10000000000001,"text":"各個黨團裡面 大家都認為"},{"start":74.30000000000001,"end":77.30000000000001,"text":"無人機對於整個不對稱戰力的一個提升"},{"start":77.30000000000001,"end":78.30000000000001,"text":"非常的一個重要"},{"start":78.60000000000001,"end":80.30000000000001,"text":"但是我們覺得非常可惜的"},{"start":80.60000000000001,"end":83.2,"text":"在整個協商的一個過程裡面"},{"start":83.5,"end":86.8,"text":"各個黨團其實還是鐵板一塊"},{"start":87,"end":89.8,"text":"譬如說台灣民眾黨到了今天"},{"start":90.10000000000001,"end":94.3,"text":"他終於不再把整個國防部要涉及到的"},{"start":94.60000000000001,"end":97,"text":"整個濱海型的真兼無人機"},{"start":97.2,"end":99,"text":"還有濱海型的攻擊無人機"},{"start":99.30000000000001,"end":100.30000000000001,"text":"還有無人載具"},{"start":100.30000000000001,"end":102.80000000000001,"text":"他總算不再丟包 把他給加進來了"},{"start":103,"end":106,"text":"但是裡面的一個條文的設計"},{"start":106.30000000000001,"end":108.30000000000001,"text":"那今天跟國民黨合流"},{"start":108.60000000000001,"end":110.2,"text":"也就是說7月份的時候"},{"start":110.5,"end":112.2,"text":"那個鬼何其多"},{"start":112.4,"end":114.4,"text":"這兩個版本放在一起以後"},{"start":114.60000000000001,"end":118.4,"text":"你會發現對於整個國防戰力的一個提升"},{"start":118.60000000000001,"end":121.4,"text":"會產生一個很重大的一個衝擊就是"},{"start":121.7,"end":124.4,"text":"他在第五條跟第四條裡面設計了"},{"start":124.60000000000001,"end":127.2,"text":"設計了一個監管制度"},{"start":127.5,"end":129.7,"text":"就是說要一個特別的一個委員會"},{"start":129.9,"end":131.5,"text":"那這個特別委員會裡面"},{"start":131.7,"end":134.4,"text":"又要由這個政黨來做一個推薦"},{"start":134.8,"end":136.3,"text":"我們非常的一個擔心"},{"start":136.8,"end":138.3,"text":"對於整個國防自主"},{"start":138.5,"end":141.1,"text":"或者整個國防產業的一個支持"},{"start":141.1,"end":142.5,"text":"大家講支持"},{"start":142.7,"end":144.9,"text":"但是呢 版本裡面的設計"},{"start":145.1,"end":147.1,"text":"對於國防戰力的一個提升"},{"start":147.29999999999998,"end":148.79999999999998,"text":"要如何去做一個採購"},{"start":149,"end":151.9,"text":"還要經過各黨所推薦的這一些"},{"start":152.1,"end":154.1,"text":"特別委員會的委員來做決定"},{"start":154.6,"end":157,"text":"也就是說整個戰力的行程"},{"start":157.29999999999998,"end":158.79999999999998,"text":"國防部或者行政院"},{"start":159,"end":160.79999999999998,"text":"他本身一部車子當駕駛"},{"start":161.1,"end":162.9,"text":"方向他踩得很穩"},{"start":163.1,"end":164.2,"text":"要哪一個方向"},{"start":164.4,"end":166.29999999999998,"text":"國防戰力如何去做部署"},{"start":166.5,"end":168.5,"text":"由國防部的專業來做評估"},{"start":168.9,"end":171.9,"text":"但是呢 加野黨的委員的設計的版本"},{"start":172.3,"end":173.5,"text":"國民黨今天的修正案"},{"start":173.7,"end":176.2,"text":"把台灣民眾黨納進來以後"},{"start":176.4,"end":178.2,"text":"又政黨推薦的委員"},{"start":178.4,"end":179.7,"text":"我們很擔心"},{"start":179.9,"end":181.7,"text":"如果這些內部的委員"},{"start":181.9,"end":184.3,"text":"他如果具備的是有身份"},{"start":184.5,"end":186.7,"text":"對於國家不夠忠誠的人"},{"start":186.9,"end":188.7,"text":"那這些人來幫我們的整個行政院"},{"start":188.9,"end":189.5,"text":"來做決定"},{"start":189.7,"end":191.5,"text":"各位委員想想看"},{"start":191.7,"end":193.6,"text":"我想各黨的委員應該"},{"start":193.8,"end":196,"text":"特別特別的一個警惕"},{"start":196.5,"end":199.5,"text":"六年你編定了2400億"},{"start":199.7,"end":202.5,"text":"看起來比五年2100億還要多"},{"start":202.7,"end":203.5,"text":"可是問題是"},{"start":203.7,"end":205.5,"text":"就侵害了整個行政權"},{"start":205.7,"end":207.7,"text":"立法院我們負責監督"},{"start":207.9,"end":210.5,"text":"可是到最後行程我們又再也"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-27T13:12:40.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-27T13:12:43.586667+08:00","text":"主席、各位在場委員、各位媒體朋友。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-27T13:12:44.753846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-27T13:13:02.693333+08:00","text":"無人載具整個產業的發展，民主進步黨其實從各個政黨所提出的這14個版本，各個政黨對於整個無人機產業的發展，大家嘴巴講的，全部都沒有意見，但是實質上，到底有沒有用行動去支持？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-27T13:13:03.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-27T13:13:22.983333+08:00","text":"我看今天的條文可以揭示得非常清楚，各個黨團所提出的這些版本裡面，大家開宗明義講的第一句話，全部都是講國防自主，但是國防自主，就行政院提出的草案版本裡面，七個條文其實揭示得非常清楚。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-27T13:13:23.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-27T13:13:57.621429+08:00","text":"國防戰力的提升、國防戰力的形成，各個黨團都認為無人機對於整個不對稱戰力的提升非常重要，但是我們覺得非常可惜，在整個協商的過程裡面，各個黨團其實還是鐵板一塊，譬如台灣民眾黨到了今天終於不再把國防部要涉及到的濱海型的偵監無人機，還有濱海型的攻擊無人機，還有無人載具，他總算不再丟包，把它給加進來了。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-27T13:13:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-27T13:15:44.416667+08:00","text":"但是條文裡面的設計，今天跟國民黨合流，也就是7月份的時候，鬼何其多，這兩個版本放在一起以後，你會發現對於整個國防戰力的提升會產生很重大的一個衝擊，就是在第五條跟第十七條裡面設計了一個監管制度，要有一個特別的委員會，而這個特別委員會裡面，又要由政黨來做推薦，我們非常擔心，對於整個國防自主或者整個國防產業的支持，大家都講支持，但是版本裡面的設計，對於國防戰力的提升，要如何去做採購，還要經過各黨所推薦的這一些特別委員會的委員來做決定，也就是整個戰力的形成，國防部或者行政院本身，假設是一部車子，他當駕駛，他方向踩得很穩，要哪一個方向……國防戰力如何部署，由國防部的專業來評估，但是在野黨委員設計的版本、國民黨今天的修正案，把台灣民眾黨納進來以後，用政黨推薦委員，我們很擔心如果這些內部的委員具備的身分是對於國家不夠忠誠的人，由這些人來幫行政院做決定，各位委員想想看，我想各黨的委員應該特別要有一個警惕，你們六年編了2,400億，看起來比五年2,100億還要多，問題是就侵害了整個行政權，立法院是負責監督，可是到最後形成在野黨推薦的委員人數多，又來取代整個行政院做決策，到底有沒有違反權力分立，我相信這是非常清楚的，請各位在野黨的委員三思。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-27T13:15:44.916667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-27T13:15:46.630952+08:00","text":"好，謝謝莊委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-27T13:15:46.930952+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-27T13:15:50.073810+08:00","text":"下一位請徐巧芯委員發言。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":8,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（13時12分）主席、各位在場委員、各位媒體朋友。無人載具整個產業的發展，民主進步黨其實從各個政黨所提出的這14個版本，各個政黨對於整個無人機產業的發展，大家嘴巴講的，全部都沒有意見，但是實質上，到底有沒有用行動去支持？我看今天的條文可以揭示得非常清楚，各個黨團所提出的這些版本裡面，大家開宗明義講的第一句話，全部都是講國防自主，但是國防自主，就行政院提出的草案版本裡面，七個條文其實揭示得非常清楚。國防戰力的提升、國防戰力的形成，各個黨團都認為無人機對於整個不對稱戰力的提升非常重要，但是我們覺得非常可惜，在整個協商的過程裡面，各個黨團其實還是鐵板一塊，譬如台灣民眾黨到了今天終於不再把國防部要涉及到的濱海型的偵監無人機，還有濱海型的攻擊無人機，還有無人載具，他總算不再丟包，把它給加進來了。但是條文裡面的設計，今天跟國民黨合流，也就是7月份的時候，鬼何其多，這兩個版本放在一起以後，你會發現對於整個國防戰力的提升會產生很重大的一個衝擊，就是在第五條跟第十七條裡面設計了一個監管制度，要有一個特別的委員會，而這個特別委員會裡面，又要由政黨來做推薦，我們非常擔心，對於整個國防自主或者整個國防產業的支持，大家都講支持，但是版本裡面的設計，對於國防戰力的提升，要如何去做採購，還要經過各黨所推薦的這一些特別委員會的委員來做決定，也就是整個戰力的形成，國防部或者行政院本身，假設是一部車子，他當駕駛，他方向踩得很穩，要哪一個方向……國防戰力如何部署，由國防部的專業來評估，但是在野黨委員設計的版本、國民黨今天的修正案，把台灣民眾黨納進來以後，用政黨推薦委員，我們很擔心如果這些內部的委員具備的身分是對於國家不夠忠誠的人，由這些人來幫行政院做決定，各位委員想想看，我想各黨的委員應該特別要有一個警惕，你們六年編了2,400億，看起來比五年2,100億還要多，問題是就侵害了整個行政權，立法院是負責監督，可是到最後形成在野黨推薦的委員人數多，又來取代整個行政院做決策，到底有沒有違反權力分立，我相信這是非常清楚的，請各位在野黨的委員三思。"],["主席：好，謝謝莊委員。","下一位請徐巧芯委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"agendarec_url":"https://ppg.ly.gov.tw/ppg/SittingYuanInfo/download/agendarec1/02/pdf/11/05/23LCEWC03_110523.pdf","pdf_url":"https://ppg.ly.gov.tw/ppg/SittingYuanInfo/download/agendarec1/02/pdf/11/05/23LCEWC03_110523.pdf","meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期第23次會議紀錄","content":"討論事項\n強化國防自主暨無人載具產業發展條例─完成三讀─","agenda_id":"1157407_00001","doc_url":null,"page_end":484,"meet_id":"院會-11-5-23","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","徐巧芯","洪毓祥"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-08-27"],"gazette_id":"1157407","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1157407_00002","1157407_00003","1157407_00004","1157407_00005","1157407_00006"],"pdf_page_offset":0}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}