{"error":false,"id":["171182"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":171182,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/171182","日期":"2026-10-02","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-6-2","屆":11,"會期":6,"會次":2,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"第11屆第6會期第2次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-10-02T10:12:53+08:00","結束時間":"2026-10-02T10:28:34+08:00","影片長度":"00:15:41","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/65674ec246be4557b3ebf03c30d7da8c99386a17e8c1f59e05515548bbd0bd5a0e7e88b7d6e8a5905ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"范雲","委員發言時間":"10:12:53 - 10:28:34","會議時間":"2026-10-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第6會期第2次會議（事由：對行政院院長施政報告進行質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":3.57471875,"end":6.69659375,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.27034375,"end":8.434718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.38221875,"end":21.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":21.04034375,"end":21.20909375,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":21.293468750000002,"end":32.38034375,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.173468750000005,"end":33.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":34.10159375,"end":36.07596875,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.06346875,"end":35.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.07596875,"end":44.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":44.564093750000005,"end":46.656593750000006,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":47.80409375,"end":48.17534375,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.63096875,"end":49.086593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":49.086593750000006,"end":50.352218750000006,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.710968750000006,"end":50.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":50.892218750000005,"end":58.33409375,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.329718750000005,"end":60.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":60.40971875,"end":61.06784375,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":61.72596875000001,"end":62.56971875000001,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":63.05909375,"end":83.14034375,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.34971875000001,"end":66.77159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":83.64659375000001,"end":95.02034375000001,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":95.42534375000001,"end":122.57721875000001,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":123.37034375,"end":125.27721875,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":125.74971875000001,"end":130.00221875,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":130.93034375000002,"end":146.40471875,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":146.86034375,"end":152.96909375,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":153.12096875,"end":210.39471875,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.60971875,"end":219.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.65909375,"end":220.38471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.90784375,"end":222.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.16909375,"end":228.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.16409375,"end":229.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.13846875000002,"end":231.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.96096875,"end":233.34471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.59784375,"end":236.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.41596875000002,"end":237.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.25534375,"end":240.70221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.00596875000002,"end":242.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.09846875000002,"end":251.95784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.10971875,"end":253.69596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.35409375,"end":258.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.77534375,"end":261.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.98159375,"end":263.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.65221875000003,"end":264.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.36096875000004,"end":264.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.54221875,"end":272.76471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.81534375,"end":284.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.22284375000004,"end":286.43346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.95659375,"end":291.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.42846875000004,"end":294.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.46596875,"end":297.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.97596875,"end":306.05909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":298.11096875000004,"end":298.33034375,"speaker_score":0.843},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.32909375,"end":312.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.57284375,"end":315.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.10409375,"end":317.61846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.75346875,"end":318.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.15409375,"end":320.47034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.90909375,"end":322.25909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.61346875000004,"end":324.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.48659375,"end":325.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.75221875,"end":329.75159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.07221875000005,"end":331.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.50659375000004,"end":332.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.09284375000004,"end":337.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.88534375,"end":344.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.97284375000004,"end":348.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.82034375,"end":354.64221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.99659375000005,"end":358.01721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":355.23284375000003,"end":355.43534375,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":358.01721875000004,"end":367.85534375000003,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":368.51346875,"end":402.16221875,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":382.43534375,"end":382.65471875000003,"speaker_score":0.843},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":402.22971875,"end":402.46596875,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.56721875000005,"end":409.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.90784375000004,"end":414.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":414.22784375000003,"end":520.2197187500001,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":520.72596875,"end":538.6472187500001,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.00159375,"end":541.3472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.6172187500001,"end":541.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":542.37659375,"end":543.7097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":544.67159375,"end":545.9540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.88221875,"end":548.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":548.9072187500001,"end":549.8015937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.2065937500001,"end":556.2478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":556.3490937500001,"end":557.5303437499999,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.41659375,"end":557.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":557.56409375,"end":560.92221875,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":559.25159375,"end":559.7240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":559.84221875,"end":561.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":561.81659375,"end":562.22159375,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.2890937500001,"end":567.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":567.40221875,"end":568.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":568.93784375,"end":570.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.79409375,"end":572.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":573.15659375,"end":574.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.84409375,"end":578.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.5734687500001,"end":579.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.19346875,"end":581.0034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.50971875,"end":583.9397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.3615937500001,"end":587.4497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.93909375,"end":589.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":589.7109687500001,"end":590.6728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":591.19596875,"end":592.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":592.4953437500001,"end":593.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.30534375,"end":594.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.6384687500001,"end":595.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.07284375,"end":597.4397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":598.63784375,"end":601.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":601.9453437500001,"end":604.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.8815937500001,"end":606.8559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":607.4297187500001,"end":609.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":609.85971875,"end":615.2765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":613.3359687500001,"end":613.4709687500001,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":615.5972187500001,"end":619.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":619.2422187500001,"end":636.5559687500001,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":630.3628437500001,"end":630.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":636.9778437500001,"end":639.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":639.99846875,"end":641.1628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":641.3484687499999,"end":641.70284375,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":641.95596875,"end":675.40221875,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":643.62659375,"end":644.5209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":648.11534375,"end":648.13221875,"speaker_score":0.843},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":648.13221875,"end":648.2165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":648.2165937500001,"end":649.3640937499999,"speaker_score":0.843},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":651.1865937499999,"end":652.75596875,"speaker_score":0.843},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":673.90034375,"end":675.03096875,"speaker_score":0.843},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":676.0265937500001,"end":683.89034375,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":683.8059687500001,"end":684.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":684.14346875,"end":687.4172187500001,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":687.7209687500001,"end":732.38909375,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":689.34096875,"end":689.8303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":732.7097187500001,"end":738.16034375,"speaker_score":0.843},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":738.44721875,"end":745.5515937499999,"speaker_score":0.843},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":745.83846875,"end":755.87909375,"speaker_score":0.843},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":756.01409375,"end":760.9753437500001,"speaker_score":0.843},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":761.4309687500001,"end":778.6772187500001,"speaker_score":0.843},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":778.89659375,"end":783.80721875,"speaker_score":0.843},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":784.4990937500002,"end":805.9640937500001,"speaker_score":0.843},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":806.20034375,"end":833.18346875,"speaker_score":0.843},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":833.7065937500001,"end":834.49971875,"speaker_score":0.843},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":834.92159375,"end":844.9284687500001,"speaker_score":0.843},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":842.9540937500001,"end":843.3759687500001,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":843.8147187500001,"end":844.7934687500001,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":844.9284687500001,"end":925.3884687500001,"speaker_score":0.937},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":932.8303437500001,"end":936.99846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0,"end":7,"text":"謝謝韓院長 有請卓院長"},{"start":7,"end":9,"text":"麻煩再請卓院長備選"},{"start":20,"end":21,"text":"範圍好"},{"start":21,"end":24,"text":"卓院長好 我想先請問卓院長"},{"start":24,"end":30,"text":"卓院長 從我們上次8月底上個會期的會議結束到現在"},{"start":30,"end":33,"text":"那您最近工作情況還好嗎"},{"start":33,"end":34,"text":"一如往常"},{"start":34,"end":36,"text":"一如往常 沒有休假在家"},{"start":36,"end":40,"text":"而且各種國際的變化跟國內的形勢一直有變化"},{"start":40,"end":42,"text":"所以我們還是有接續不斷的會議再開"},{"start":42,"end":45,"text":"再面對解決各種不同的問題"},{"start":45,"end":47,"text":"所以您並沒有休假在家"},{"start":47,"end":48,"text":"沒有"},{"start":48,"end":49,"text":"沒有"},{"start":49,"end":50,"text":"都在工作"},{"start":50,"end":51,"text":"連假日都很少"},{"start":51,"end":53,"text":"那所以今天是10月2號"},{"start":53,"end":58,"text":"我想請問卓院長您上個月的薪水入帳了嗎"},{"start":58,"end":60,"text":"我還沒有領"},{"start":60,"end":61,"text":"沒有領"},{"start":61,"end":66,"text":"那我覺得這是個很嚴重嚴肅的問題"},{"start":66,"end":69,"text":"所以非常的希望跟卓院長討論"},{"start":69,"end":72,"text":"我們都知道上個月上個會期"},{"start":72,"end":74,"text":"由翁曉玲委員的提案"},{"start":74,"end":76,"text":"以陳的提案馬找出來看"},{"start":76,"end":80,"text":"她指責行政院長不適任的隔閤"},{"start":80,"end":83,"text":"所以提案凍結行政院長"},{"start":83,"end":86,"text":"115年9月到12月的薪資"},{"start":86,"end":89,"text":"投票結果贊成了59人"},{"start":89,"end":92,"text":"我們民進黨51位立委都反對"},{"start":92,"end":95,"text":"那這個案子通過之後呢"},{"start":95,"end":97,"text":"我自己也去做了一個研究"},{"start":97,"end":99,"text":"那我知道總統已經有批示"},{"start":99,"end":102,"text":"覺得這樣子非常的不能接受"},{"start":102,"end":103,"text":"違法違憲"},{"start":103,"end":104,"text":"那我自己喔"},{"start":104,"end":106,"text":"秉著研究的精神去看了一下"},{"start":106,"end":109,"text":"到底立法院能不能因為政治立場不同"},{"start":109,"end":113,"text":"決定一位依法任職的行政首長"},{"start":113,"end":114,"text":"幾個月不能領薪水"},{"start":114,"end":115,"text":"我們看了一下"},{"start":115,"end":118,"text":"其實預算法52條就有說"},{"start":118,"end":121,"text":"立法院通過預算的附加條件"},{"start":121,"end":122,"text":"如果違法"},{"start":122,"end":125,"text":"這個條件就失效"},{"start":125,"end":126,"text":"這是預算法52條"},{"start":126,"end":130,"text":"如果附加條件違法該條件失效"},{"start":130,"end":134,"text":"憲法54條跟行政院組織法第10條"},{"start":134,"end":137,"text":"都有很清楚說行政院長"},{"start":137,"end":142,"text":"就是憲法跟相關法律保障的法定職位"},{"start":142,"end":145,"text":"所以您的薪水就是預算法的法定預算"},{"start":145,"end":146,"text":"這沒錯吧"},{"start":146,"end":148,"text":"那我們再來看"},{"start":148,"end":150,"text":"過去國會有沒有發生類似的事"},{"start":150,"end":153,"text":"行政院長這真的是第一次"},{"start":153,"end":157,"text":"可是在過去陳水扁總統"},{"start":157,"end":159,"text":"擔任總統的朝小野大的時候"},{"start":159,"end":160,"text":"有類似的是"},{"start":160,"end":162,"text":"2005年曾經發生立法院"},{"start":162,"end":167,"text":"刪除大法官的司法專業加給的預算"},{"start":167,"end":172,"text":"後來釋字61號的解釋被判定違憲"},{"start":172,"end":175,"text":"那我想這三個法跟憲法跟釋字的"},{"start":175,"end":178,"text":"601號解釋應該"},{"start":178,"end":180,"text":"這個社會很多人不知道"},{"start":180,"end":182,"text":"那但是院長應該很清楚"},{"start":182,"end":184,"text":"所以我今天想跟院長討論"},{"start":184,"end":188,"text":"我覺得您的薪水不是個人問題了"},{"start":188,"end":190,"text":"因為今天他代表立法院"},{"start":190,"end":192,"text":"可不可以用預算決議"},{"start":192,"end":196,"text":"停止依法任職的政務人員薪資的問題"},{"start":196,"end":199,"text":"他也對未來的國會有示範作用"},{"start":199,"end":203,"text":"我們今天是因為憲法法庭也被癱瘓了"},{"start":203,"end":206,"text":"所以沒有辦法如同2005年有這個釋憲文"},{"start":206,"end":208,"text":"但是他的精神應該要被遵守"},{"start":208,"end":211,"text":"不知道院長您是不是同意"},{"start":211,"end":215,"text":"陳如委員剛剛所引用的相當多的條文"},{"start":215,"end":219,"text":"包括憲法54條以及行政院組織法第四條等等"},{"start":219,"end":223,"text":"這都是談到政務人員的待遇"},{"start":223,"end":226,"text":"又依照政務人員局表他所呈現的內容"},{"start":226,"end":230,"text":"他都是一個法定的一個經費"},{"start":230,"end":233,"text":"是不可以刪除凍結的"},{"start":233,"end":236,"text":"如果今天行政院長可以"},{"start":236,"end":238,"text":"部長也可以"},{"start":238,"end":239,"text":"如果中央可以"},{"start":239,"end":241,"text":"未來地方也可以"},{"start":241,"end":245,"text":"那全國只要行政部門跟議會部門不同"},{"start":245,"end":247,"text":"都可能發生這個事情"},{"start":247,"end":249,"text":"所以這個是嚴格限制在內的"},{"start":249,"end":255,"text":"所以透過年度預算的法定經費薪水來凍結"},{"start":255,"end":258,"text":"是想用凍結來影響來改變"},{"start":258,"end":261,"text":"甚至來拘束行政機關的各種行為"},{"start":261,"end":263,"text":"這絕對是依法不拒"},{"start":263,"end":267,"text":"所以當通過這樣的一個案子的時候"},{"start":267,"end":270,"text":"附帶的條件又是希望我們把不附屬的"},{"start":270,"end":273,"text":"這些法律案能夠讓它成為生效"},{"start":273,"end":277,"text":"但這個又違背了憲法總統時日公布法律的這樣的期限"},{"start":277,"end":278,"text":"已經不可能了"},{"start":278,"end":282,"text":"所以對一個致使不可能成就的條件"},{"start":282,"end":284,"text":"來加以附加條件"},{"start":284,"end":288,"text":"視為這個條件致使都是無效的條件"},{"start":288,"end":291,"text":"所以這樣的行為也沒有辦法拘束到"},{"start":291,"end":292,"text":"是不是該領"},{"start":292,"end":294,"text":"但為什麼我到現在沒有去領"},{"start":294,"end":298,"text":"我是想今天在這裡讓我跟韓院長來比較一下"},{"start":298,"end":299,"text":"韓院長高高坐在上面"},{"start":299,"end":300,"text":"我站在這裡"},{"start":300,"end":302,"text":"這是因為有薪水的院長"},{"start":302,"end":304,"text":"我是因為沒有領薪水的院長"},{"start":304,"end":305,"text":"讓國人看一下"},{"start":305,"end":309,"text":"但是基於維護所有公務人員的尊嚴"},{"start":309,"end":312,"text":"跟工作必要的以及生活必要的"},{"start":312,"end":315,"text":"我不會放棄這種法定的權利"},{"start":315,"end":316,"text":"我今天要向委員說"},{"start":316,"end":320,"text":"我也謝謝很多的委員是在站在法的立場"},{"start":320,"end":322,"text":"沒有去贊成這案子"},{"start":322,"end":326,"text":"但是我要跟所有法去支持凍結"},{"start":326,"end":330,"text":"凍結三檢政務人員預算的所有委員說"},{"start":330,"end":334,"text":"你們這樣的方式會讓整個府會之間"},{"start":334,"end":338,"text":"中央地方的府會之間都造成相當大的困擾"},{"start":338,"end":340,"text":"此例絕不可開"},{"start":340,"end":343,"text":"我也不會用開這個例來讓這個行為"},{"start":343,"end":346,"text":"變成它是一個成就不法的狀態"},{"start":346,"end":350,"text":"所以依法領薪水是人民的俸祿"},{"start":350,"end":352,"text":"我們接受人民的俸祿"},{"start":352,"end":354,"text":"依法做公務的工作"},{"start":354,"end":358,"text":"這是責任跟權力相當的平衡的一個工作"},{"start":358,"end":359,"text":"好 謝謝院長"},{"start":359,"end":361,"text":"您這樣講我就放心了"},{"start":361,"end":364,"text":"因為我真的就如同剛剛卓院長說的"},{"start":364,"end":368,"text":"如果今天國會可以對行政院長這麼做"},{"start":368,"end":372,"text":"那未來各級議會就有可能也用同樣的方式"},{"start":372,"end":375,"text":"對待不同政治立場的政務人員"},{"start":375,"end":377,"text":"那我想這會是一個"},{"start":377,"end":380,"text":"就是讓政治杯葛凌駕憲政"},{"start":380,"end":382,"text":"跟法律界限的惡例"},{"start":382,"end":385,"text":"所以真的不是卓院長個人薪水的問題"},{"start":385,"end":390,"text":"它是一個守護憲政跟法律的界限的議題"},{"start":390,"end":394,"text":"那我相信韓院長在這邊應該也會認同這句話"},{"start":394,"end":397,"text":"政治杯葛不應凌駕憲政跟法律的界限"},{"start":397,"end":402,"text":"那謝謝卓院長就是守護憲政跟法律的界限"},{"start":402,"end":403,"text":"這是應該要做的"},{"start":403,"end":406,"text":"所以我說守護憲法是每一個國人"},{"start":406,"end":408,"text":"應該有的義務跟責任"},{"start":408,"end":410,"text":"而不是哪一個人"},{"start":410,"end":414,"text":"也不是任何一個人可以去破壞憲法的規定跟憲法的精神"},{"start":414,"end":418,"text":"好 謝謝卓院長一起守護這條界限"},{"start":418,"end":419,"text":"那我今天第二題呢"},{"start":419,"end":424,"text":"想跟院長請教另外一個也覺得很重要的問題"},{"start":424,"end":426,"text":"幫我們公民團體詢問"},{"start":426,"end":429,"text":"這個禮拜二晚上就是我們的開日"},{"start":429,"end":433,"text":"精明聯等40個公民團體發起一個遊行"},{"start":433,"end":436,"text":"那他們只請113位立委"},{"start":436,"end":439,"text":"那謝謝他們邀請我去報告一件事"},{"start":439,"end":441,"text":"就是這一次總預算"},{"start":441,"end":443,"text":"追加的預算當中"},{"start":443,"end":446,"text":"有多少社會福利的加碼"},{"start":446,"end":448,"text":"那當天他們很關心說"},{"start":448,"end":452,"text":"總預算延宕了審查351天"},{"start":452,"end":455,"text":"如果繼續延宕會發生什麼事"},{"start":455,"end":459,"text":"很多人其實包含當天在場的公民團體都不知道"},{"start":459,"end":461,"text":"就是行政院的追加預算"},{"start":461,"end":467,"text":"這裡面包含8大社會福利跟生活補助"},{"start":467,"end":470,"text":"那因為媒體聚焦的可能是中油"},{"start":470,"end":472,"text":"台電的這些補助"},{"start":472,"end":474,"text":"那我想特別在這邊講一下"},{"start":474,"end":478,"text":"老農今天是從原本8,110元增加到1萬"},{"start":478,"end":482,"text":"國民年金從4,049到5,000"},{"start":482,"end":485,"text":"這裡面有很多是家庭主婦"},{"start":485,"end":488,"text":"那老農也是相對來講國家應該守護的"},{"start":488,"end":491,"text":"還有六大社福包含中低收老人"},{"start":491,"end":493,"text":"弱勢兒少"},{"start":493,"end":494,"text":"低收家庭"},{"start":494,"end":496,"text":"低收入戶兒童就學"},{"start":496,"end":498,"text":"還有身障者的生活補助"},{"start":498,"end":499,"text":"全面調整"},{"start":499,"end":501,"text":"接近四分之一"},{"start":501,"end":505,"text":"那還有特別不是一般的福利軍公教人員的待遇"},{"start":505,"end":507,"text":"包含基層同仁"},{"start":507,"end":510,"text":"新增2000塊的職務加給"},{"start":510,"end":513,"text":"然後通案調整4%"},{"start":513,"end":517,"text":"這個有72萬的軍公教也會受益"},{"start":517,"end":519,"text":"那這個部分我當天有跟大家報告"},{"start":519,"end":521,"text":"那我想請問院長"},{"start":521,"end":523,"text":"我剛剛講的這個"},{"start":523,"end":527,"text":"已經送到立法院的這個追加的這個預算"},{"start":527,"end":532,"text":"裡面包含318萬弱勢跟72萬的軍公教"},{"start":532,"end":535,"text":"那最快大家什麼時候可以拿到"},{"start":535,"end":539,"text":"如果立法院預算又延宕會有什麼影響"},{"start":539,"end":541,"text":"今天有一些媒體有一個標題"},{"start":541,"end":544,"text":"他說如果追加預算沒有過"},{"start":544,"end":546,"text":"那行政院就不發"},{"start":546,"end":549,"text":"其實這樣的標題是錯誤的"},{"start":549,"end":551,"text":"行政院如果追加預算沒有過"},{"start":551,"end":554,"text":"行政院非不為也是不能也"},{"start":554,"end":556,"text":"因為就沒有預算可以去執行"},{"start":556,"end":557,"text":"所以我們希望"},{"start":557,"end":559,"text":"那如果拖到明年呢"},{"start":559,"end":560,"text":"像總預算拖360"},{"start":560,"end":564,"text":"這是115年度的總預算的追加預算"},{"start":564,"end":567,"text":"一定要在115年可以去執行"},{"start":567,"end":569,"text":"去開始執行"},{"start":569,"end":571,"text":"它才有這個時效性"},{"start":571,"end":573,"text":"那明年就到明年116年去了"},{"start":573,"end":578,"text":"所以我們很期待大院能夠加速來審議這個追加預算"},{"start":578,"end":581,"text":"那個11月底如果能夠通過"},{"start":581,"end":584,"text":"那我們才有時間來進行後續的作業"},{"start":584,"end":587,"text":"況且我們如果看這次今年的中央政府總預算"},{"start":587,"end":591,"text":"8月14號三讀通過"},{"start":591,"end":596,"text":"一直到9月18號才送到總統府去"},{"start":596,"end":598,"text":"讓總統府去公布"},{"start":598,"end":602,"text":"三讀到送到總統府差了將近一個月"},{"start":602,"end":604,"text":"那如果11月底通過"},{"start":604,"end":607,"text":"那立法院還有時間慢慢去算"},{"start":607,"end":609,"text":"但是如果沒有留給行政機關"},{"start":609,"end":611,"text":"好好的去做後續工作的話"},{"start":611,"end":613,"text":"那這個是無法執行的"},{"start":613,"end":615,"text":"所以我們期待11月底要完成"},{"start":615,"end":619,"text":"中央政府今年度的追加預算的審議工作"},{"start":619,"end":621,"text":"那我這樣講不知道對不對"},{"start":621,"end":623,"text":"這個福利加起來的話"},{"start":623,"end":625,"text":"或者軍公教這個"},{"start":625,"end":628,"text":"事實上可能會超過1萬元是數字不少"},{"start":628,"end":630,"text":"因為是從7月到年底嘛"},{"start":630,"end":631,"text":"對"},{"start":631,"end":634,"text":"那這樣子如果今年底沒有通過拖到明年"},{"start":634,"end":636,"text":"就完全失效了是這樣子嗎"},{"start":636,"end":637,"text":"是"},{"start":637,"end":639,"text":"那如果沒有在今年通過的話"},{"start":639,"end":641,"text":"主席講我們明年"},{"start":641,"end":642,"text":"好"},{"start":642,"end":643,"text":"115年就失效"},{"start":643,"end":644,"text":"就沒有辦法"},{"start":644,"end":645,"text":"這沒有辦法發"},{"start":645,"end":646,"text":"因為它跟總預算不一樣"},{"start":646,"end":647,"text":"沒有辦法拖這麼久"},{"start":647,"end":648,"text":"因為它是追加"},{"start":648,"end":649,"text":"是沒有辦法"},{"start":649,"end":650,"text":"它到年底就失效了"},{"start":650,"end":651,"text":"到年底就失效了"},{"start":651,"end":652,"text":"沒有通過就失效"},{"start":652,"end":654,"text":"那請大家一起來關心喔"},{"start":654,"end":656,"text":"就是行政院的這個"},{"start":656,"end":660,"text":"就是能夠讓八大社福弱勢團體"},{"start":660,"end":665,"text":"318萬人加72萬的軍公教受益的重要福利"},{"start":665,"end":666,"text":"我想也在這邊呼籲"},{"start":666,"end":669,"text":"那謝謝主席長請回"},{"start":669,"end":672,"text":"那最後一題想問教育部長"},{"start":672,"end":675,"text":"部長我想院長你也認同這句話"},{"start":675,"end":678,"text":"教師安心才有好的教育"},{"start":678,"end":683,"text":"教育改革一定要兼顧教師權益跟學生權益"},{"start":683,"end":684,"text":"沒錯吧"},{"start":684,"end":685,"text":"是"},{"start":685,"end":687,"text":"那我想請問部長"},{"start":687,"end":690,"text":"那我先謝謝部長跟院長"},{"start":690,"end":693,"text":"最近增聘了校安人力"},{"start":693,"end":696,"text":"那我想這個部分基層的反應"},{"start":696,"end":698,"text":"我們聽到的都很肯定"},{"start":698,"end":700,"text":"就是謝謝院長的支持"},{"start":700,"end":701,"text":"還有部長的支持"},{"start":701,"end":704,"text":"那讓教師在校安這個部分"},{"start":704,"end":707,"text":"能夠稍微的就是覺得比較安心一點"},{"start":707,"end":710,"text":"那可是我想部長非常的了解"},{"start":710,"end":713,"text":"我們上個會期在教文委員會中"},{"start":713,"end":715,"text":"在程序上跟民主討論上"},{"start":715,"end":718,"text":"很多本黨立委都不能接受的"},{"start":718,"end":719,"text":"那但是這個解冰辦法"},{"start":719,"end":722,"text":"後來的確是被退回了"},{"start":722,"end":726,"text":"我想教育部也一定都有在滾動式的檢討"},{"start":726,"end":727,"text":"那請問部長"},{"start":727,"end":729,"text":"那之後你們有沒有聆聽"},{"start":729,"end":732,"text":"有沒有機會聆聽第一線教師的聲音呢"},{"start":732,"end":735,"text":"謝謝委員關心這有關這個校園"},{"start":735,"end":739,"text":"怎麼樣確保能夠有好良好的教學品質"},{"start":739,"end":742,"text":"讓這些老師能夠安心教學"},{"start":742,"end":744,"text":"然後不適任老師能夠遠離校園"},{"start":744,"end":749,"text":"那確實我們針對過去紛紛擾擾的濫述"},{"start":749,"end":751,"text":"在去年之前"},{"start":751,"end":754,"text":"事實上我們在新的辦法裡邊"},{"start":754,"end":755,"text":"解決了這個問題"},{"start":755,"end":760,"text":"也就把濫述跟不居民投訴的全部不受理"},{"start":760,"end":764,"text":"光這個等於說進入到校次會議的量"},{"start":764,"end":766,"text":"就一下子就減了50%"},{"start":766,"end":770,"text":"那在這裡邊我們看到的分流的一個處理"},{"start":770,"end":774,"text":"包括為罪不舉的校長的提醒"},{"start":774,"end":777,"text":"或者有更積極的班級經營"},{"start":777,"end":781,"text":"這些大概就回到學校裡邊"},{"start":781,"end":789,"text":"直接處理不再邀請什麼校外的委員來調查"},{"start":789,"end":791,"text":"這個都回到學校裡邊"},{"start":791,"end":796,"text":"那在未來我們確實也現在跟各地方的"},{"start":796,"end":797,"text":"不管教師團體"},{"start":797,"end":799,"text":"這個民間家長團體"},{"start":799,"end":800,"text":"或者校長團體"},{"start":800,"end":801,"text":"還有各地方政府"},{"start":801,"end":803,"text":"我們現在大概主要"},{"start":803,"end":806,"text":"除了把現有的這個制度"},{"start":806,"end":808,"text":"一直在往好的方向走"},{"start":808,"end":811,"text":"這個我們在希望能夠滾動式修正"},{"start":811,"end":814,"text":"大概我們目前未來會著重在一個"},{"start":814,"end":817,"text":"教師權益的一個確保"},{"start":817,"end":821,"text":"預防這一個所謂的職場的不法侵害"},{"start":821,"end":824,"text":"這個部分我們希望能夠把它納進去"},{"start":824,"end":825,"text":"那另外一個就是"},{"start":825,"end":829,"text":"我們怎麼樣去明文的確保這一個"},{"start":829,"end":833,"text":"教師的這一個合理管教的這一個"},{"start":833,"end":837,"text":"這樣的一個合理管教的這樣一個管教權"},{"start":837,"end":840,"text":"這一個也是我們在未來裡邊"},{"start":840,"end":843,"text":"我們目前在整個辦法裡邊會"},{"start":843,"end":845,"text":"朝那個方向來更精進"},{"start":845,"end":846,"text":"謝謝部長的說明"},{"start":846,"end":847,"text":"因為據我的了解"},{"start":847,"end":850,"text":"你們的確都有邀請第一線的教師團體"},{"start":850,"end":852,"text":"雖然我覺得還可以邀得更廣一些"},{"start":852,"end":856,"text":"那我自己也邀了主要的這些團體"},{"start":856,"end":858,"text":"一一跟他們深入的對話"},{"start":858,"end":860,"text":"那所以我想在這個時候"},{"start":860,"end":864,"text":"你們還沒有公布你們的一些滾動式檢討的內容的時候"},{"start":864,"end":866,"text":"我想有五大提醒"},{"start":866,"end":868,"text":"第一個剛剛部長也有提到"},{"start":868,"end":870,"text":"教師目前最關心的就是"},{"start":870,"end":874,"text":"如何解決濫素或者少數的恐龍家長的問題"},{"start":874,"end":876,"text":"那保護教師"},{"start":876,"end":878,"text":"那您剛剛有講到明文規範"},{"start":878,"end":881,"text":"受理不受理的理由該退回就退回"},{"start":881,"end":883,"text":"那依照職安法"},{"start":883,"end":884,"text":"我想剛剛部長有提到"},{"start":884,"end":886,"text":"其實我們未還委員會"},{"start":886,"end":888,"text":"勞動部這邊有職安法"},{"start":888,"end":892,"text":"那可以制定校園不法的侵害預防指引"},{"start":892,"end":896,"text":"就跟醫護他不應該被不合理的病人的要求"},{"start":896,"end":898,"text":"就是各種的霸凌"},{"start":898,"end":901,"text":"那第二個無辜教師的補償"},{"start":901,"end":904,"text":"雖然教文委員已經做了部分的改善"},{"start":904,"end":907,"text":"那大家還是認為其實他沒有完整的薪水"},{"start":907,"end":909,"text":"如果最後被判他"},{"start":909,"end":911,"text":"基本上是無辜的老師"},{"start":911,"end":913,"text":"還有名譽回復的問題"},{"start":913,"end":916,"text":"那這裡代理教師又更受傷"},{"start":916,"end":919,"text":"那還有調查報告委員名單不遮蔽"},{"start":919,"end":922,"text":"還有調查要更有教育的專業"},{"start":922,"end":924,"text":"那當然很多的減壓措施"},{"start":924,"end":926,"text":"那我想我就"},{"start":932,"end":934,"text":"好謝謝蔡委員質詢"},{"start":934,"end":935,"text":"謝謝主任長"},{"start":935,"end":937,"text":"相關部會首長備詢謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}