{"error":false,"id":["171190"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":171190,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/171190","日期":"2026-10-06","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-6-2","屆":11,"會期":6,"會次":2,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"第11屆第6會期第2次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-10-06T10:47:02+08:00","結束時間":"2026-10-06T11:18:02+08:00","影片長度":"00:31:00","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/854a20f1cd8ea8ca8ed1816282a15113750e68c775a8b2a48ed9dd662615d0c3231dcb1897cc80d85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"馬文君","委員發言時間":"10:47:02 - 11:18:02","會議時間":"2026-10-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第6會期第2次會議（事由：對行政院院長施政報告進行質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":14.610968750000001,"end":19.234718750000003,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.67346875,"end":23.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":33.52784375,"end":33.713468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":33.713468750000004,"end":33.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":33.89909375,"end":35.16471875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":33.96659375,"end":34.135343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":34.135343750000004,"end":34.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":34.16909375,"end":34.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":38.96159375,"end":71.09159375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.45034375,"end":72.00284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":72.00284375000001,"end":73.31909375000001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.47096875,"end":74.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.37784375000001,"end":79.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.98471875,"end":83.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.29221875,"end":84.64221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.94596875,"end":86.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.32971875000001,"end":89.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.31221875,"end":94.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.36221875000001,"end":96.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.70784375000001,"end":97.92284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.37846875000001,"end":101.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.39909375,"end":101.93909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.25971875,"end":106.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.03534375000001,"end":117.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":117.48096875,"end":173.75909375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.13284375,"end":158.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":174.31596875000002,"end":188.69346875000002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":189.26721875,"end":200.59034375000002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":201.70409375000003,"end":224.50221875000003,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":224.78909375,"end":228.56909375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":228.97409375,"end":237.46221875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":237.96846875000003,"end":241.15784375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":241.74846875000003,"end":248.29596875000001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":248.80221875,"end":254.70846875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":255.24846875000003,"end":284.15534375000004,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":284.54346875000005,"end":293.16659375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":293.75721875,"end":297.63846875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":298.11096875000004,"end":301.97534375000004,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":302.58284375,"end":308.48909375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.05534375,"end":303.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":303.15659375,"end":303.27471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.27471875000003,"end":303.34221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":309.18096875000003,"end":311.72909375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":312.74159375,"end":313.41659375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":313.90596875,"end":332.53596875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":333.49784375,"end":341.59784375000004,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":341.80034375,"end":354.55784375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":354.87846875,"end":362.79284375000003,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":363.61971875,"end":376.25909375000003,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":377.17034375000003,"end":380.51159375000003,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":381.64221875000004,"end":390.43409375000005,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":390.87284375,"end":393.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":393.80909375000005,"end":406.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":406.83659375,"end":419.74596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":419.91471875,"end":431.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":431.60909375,"end":437.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":438.00471875000005,"end":441.37971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":441.85221875,"end":445.10909375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":445.37909375000004,"end":448.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":449.26034375,"end":451.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":451.58909375,"end":454.55909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":455.01471875000004,"end":467.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":468.19409375000004,"end":474.45471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":474.74159375000005,"end":475.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":475.75409375000004,"end":476.29409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":476.49659375000005,"end":479.90534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":480.24284375,"end":481.37346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":481.50846875,"end":492.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":492.37596875,"end":501.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":501.37034375,"end":524.8603437500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.06596875,"end":505.08284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":505.08284375000005,"end":505.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.33596875,"end":505.36971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":525.1472187500001,"end":540.72284375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":541.0265937500001,"end":561.1584687500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":551.38784375,"end":551.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":561.8503437500001,"end":579.77159375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":580.05846875,"end":587.4497187500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":588.37784375,"end":606.3159687500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":605.1515937500001,"end":608.0034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":608.30721875,"end":617.4365937499999,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":618.29721875,"end":622.09409375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":622.09409375,"end":628.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":622.4822187500001,"end":624.5747187500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":626.9878437500001,"end":634.90221875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":635.1047187500001,"end":640.3528437500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":635.49284375,"end":635.8303437500001,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":638.71596875,"end":647.32221875,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":645.5165937500001,"end":649.93784375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":649.0265937500001,"end":665.42909375,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":650.0390937500001,"end":650.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":655.8103437500001,"end":657.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":665.7834687500001,"end":693.3234687500001,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":670.47471875,"end":670.9809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":683.99159375,"end":684.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":684.02534375,"end":684.3290937500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":693.28971875,"end":694.57221875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":694.97721875,"end":726.75284375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":726.75284375,"end":731.6297187499999,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":727.2590937500001,"end":728.28846875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":731.8490937500001,"end":741.7547187499999,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":737.18159375,"end":753.5503437500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":741.7547187499999,"end":741.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":750.5972187500001,"end":751.3059687500001,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":752.0990937500001,"end":756.40221875,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":756.3684687500001,"end":756.43596875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":756.40221875,"end":756.7903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":756.43596875,"end":756.6553437500002,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":757.3134687500001,"end":760.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":757.51596875,"end":758.08971875,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":760.5365937500001,"end":762.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":763.00034375,"end":776.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":776.83784375,"end":780.5334687500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":781.2590937500001,"end":781.29284375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":781.29284375,"end":781.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":781.42784375,"end":785.68034375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":781.44471875,"end":783.3515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":785.68034375,"end":786.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":786.54096875,"end":790.2197187500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":786.5578437500001,"end":786.5747187500001,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":787.1484687500001,"end":787.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":787.51971875,"end":787.5534687500001,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":791.87346875,"end":794.7590937500001,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":792.44721875,"end":792.5990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":793.29096875,"end":797.72909375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":796.05846875,"end":801.59346875,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":800.02409375,"end":803.09534375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":803.53409375,"end":805.3059687500001,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":805.39034375,"end":805.6772187500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":806.1159687500001,"end":817.28721875,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":810.03096875,"end":810.0478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":810.0478437500001,"end":811.70159375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":811.70159375,"end":811.7522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":811.7522187500001,"end":811.7690937500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":817.03409375,"end":820.12221875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":820.9153437500001,"end":825.91034375,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":824.30721875,"end":824.4422187500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":824.49284375,"end":825.3703437500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":825.62346875,"end":842.6840937500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":825.9272187500001,"end":829.52159375,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":831.22596875,"end":831.7322187500001,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":841.9584687500001,"end":841.9753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":841.9753437500001,"end":847.3415937500001,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":842.6840937500001,"end":844.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":848.35409375,"end":884.50034375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":852.8090937500001,"end":857.78721875,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":860.79096875,"end":861.8034687500001,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":881.5303437500002,"end":895.1147187500001,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":891.53721875,"end":943.8159687500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":928.00409375,"end":928.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":929.40471875,"end":931.1597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":931.93596875,"end":932.2565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":938.0615937500002,"end":938.1628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":938.1628437500001,"end":938.4328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":938.4328437500001,"end":938.9053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":938.9053437500002,"end":938.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":939.96846875,"end":946.54971875,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":946.7522187500001,"end":951.6628437500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":947.8490937500001,"end":954.6497187500001,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":951.9834687500002,"end":960.74159375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":961.2140937500001,"end":969.2803437500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":965.0109687500001,"end":967.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":969.2803437500002,"end":976.1653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":970.46159375,"end":970.6809687500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":974.7309687500001,"end":982.81409375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":978.7978437500001,"end":981.3290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":981.86909375,"end":990.1884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":982.8984687500001,"end":984.4172187500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":984.80534375,"end":984.9740937500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":990.7959687500002,"end":991.5890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":991.69034375,"end":992.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":992.6015937500001,"end":995.8247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":996.2803437500002,"end":1027.9040937500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1028.25846875,"end":1029.2203437500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1029.7603437500002,"end":1043.8172187500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1030.7559687500002,"end":1030.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1030.97534375,"end":1031.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1044.88034375,"end":1046.58471875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":1046.85471875,"end":1053.01409375,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1048.7615937500002,"end":1048.98096875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1053.9759687500002,"end":1054.98846875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1055.8153437500002,"end":1059.94971875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":1058.8359687500001,"end":1062.02534375,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1062.02534375,"end":1074.3272187500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1074.6140937500002,"end":1086.1565937500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1086.37596875,"end":1094.22284375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":1090.0547187500001,"end":1091.3540937500002,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":1092.1978437500002,"end":1099.9097187500001,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1099.9097187500001,"end":1100.41596875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1100.7703437500002,"end":1117.59471875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1118.57346875,"end":1122.9947187500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1123.8215937500001,"end":1127.3315937500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1127.85471875,"end":1136.5284687500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1137.3047187500001,"end":1137.96284375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1138.7728437500002,"end":1140.4603437500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1141.5572187500002,"end":1143.5653437500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1144.2234687500002,"end":1146.53534375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1146.99096875,"end":1149.0159687500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1149.6909687500001,"end":1168.2872187500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1149.8597187500002,"end":1150.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":1168.2534687500001,"end":1175.25659375,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":1175.5603437500001,"end":1198.7634687500001,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1190.8997187500001,"end":1191.0347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1191.0347187500001,"end":1191.3215937500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1191.3215937500001,"end":1191.4734687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1191.4734687500002,"end":1191.4903437500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1193.5997187500002,"end":1196.08034375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1198.57784375,"end":1200.43409375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1201.1597187500001,"end":1213.0397187500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1213.34346875,"end":1220.5997187500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1221.07221875,"end":1231.75409375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1233.32346875,"end":1272.9290937500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1274.49846875,"end":1293.06096875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1293.63471875,"end":1296.19971875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1296.2503437500002,"end":1304.1140937500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1304.77221875,"end":1315.7578437500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1315.8084687500002,"end":1322.87909375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1324.44846875,"end":1328.1609687500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1329.0215937500002,"end":1333.8140937500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1333.9659687500002,"end":1336.8515937500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1337.22284375,"end":1338.7415937500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1339.4503437500002,"end":1342.9603437500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1344.3103437500001,"end":1348.6640937500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1348.6978437500002,"end":1363.3115937500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":1364.3240937500002,"end":1370.2134687500002,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":1370.55096875,"end":1388.4047187500003,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":1388.5228437500002,"end":1406.44409375,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1398.27659375,"end":1398.29346875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1398.29346875,"end":1398.9515937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1398.9515937500003,"end":1419.3197187500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1419.9778437500001,"end":1432.5497187500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1429.07346875,"end":1429.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1429.09034375,"end":1429.9678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1429.9678437500002,"end":1430.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1432.87034375,"end":1455.09471875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1453.27221875,"end":1458.9759687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1455.8709687500002,"end":1456.8497187500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1456.8497187500002,"end":1456.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1456.93409375,"end":1456.9847187500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":1456.9847187500002,"end":1457.0015937500002,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1457.0015937500002,"end":1457.8284687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"顧部長立雄","start":1458.9759687500002,"end":1464.1565937500002,"speaker_score":0.767},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1463.7684687500002,"end":1473.6065937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1473.6065937500002,"end":1478.2472187500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1478.7872187500002,"end":1516.4690937500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1516.6378437500002,"end":1550.0503437500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1550.2697187500003,"end":1554.9103437500003,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1555.1634687500002,"end":1555.77096875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1555.9903437500002,"end":1573.9790937500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1574.06346875,"end":1581.4040937500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1582.0453437500003,"end":1625.6503437500003,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1601.4347187500002,"end":1601.7384687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1601.7384687500003,"end":1601.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1601.77221875,"end":1601.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1626.79784375,"end":1644.6178437500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1642.9978437500001,"end":1657.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1657.6284687500001,"end":1660.2947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1660.4972187500002,"end":1662.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1662.9609687500001,"end":1665.9647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1665.0703437500001,"end":1667.5172187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1666.1165937500002,"end":1672.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1672.76534375,"end":1687.6490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1684.0884687500002,"end":1684.4934687500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1685.1178437500002,"end":1685.1347187500003,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1685.16846875,"end":1701.7734687500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1687.6490937500002,"end":1687.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1689.37034375,"end":1689.6909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1697.9934687500001,"end":1698.7528437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1699.4278437500002,"end":1699.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1701.04784375,"end":1704.9122187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1705.4353437500001,"end":1709.3840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1709.5528437500002,"end":1711.3753437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1711.6959687500002,"end":1715.7797187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1716.2015937500003,"end":1717.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1717.4503437500002,"end":1718.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1718.3784687500001,"end":1719.7790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1720.2515937500002,"end":1722.5297187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1722.9515937500003,"end":1723.40721875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1723.82909375,"end":1726.7484687500003,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1727.9634687500002,"end":1730.7984687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1730.9165937500002,"end":1732.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1733.24534375,"end":1750.2047187500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1739.6072187500001,"end":1739.6240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1739.6240937500002,"end":1740.9234687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1748.1965937500001,"end":1757.1234687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1756.1447187500003,"end":1756.3809687500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1757.0559687500001,"end":1766.6747187500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1767.0965937500002,"end":1770.1678437500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1771.4503437500002,"end":1785.4565937500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1785.86159375,"end":1788.08909375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1788.3084687500002,"end":1797.1847187500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1797.92721875,"end":1828.2347187500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1827.4247187500002,"end":1829.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1828.6228437500001,"end":1829.9559687500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1829.8040937500002,"end":1835.0859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1835.5753437500002,"end":1838.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1845.0759687500001,"end":1849.0247187500001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1849.96971875,"end":1850.0372187500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1851.8428437500002,"end":1852.9734687500002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1860.0609687500003,"end":1860.9722187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0,"end":2,"text":"郭台銘 軍委員質詢"},{"start":14.6,"end":15.88,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":15.88,"end":19.64,"text":"麻煩請院長還有僑委會委員長"},{"start":19.64,"end":24.2,"text":"好 佐委員長還有僑委會委員長請備詢"},{"start":30,"end":35,"text":"委員好 院長早安"},{"start":35,"end":43,"text":"院長我們接下來已經要審總預算"},{"start":43,"end":48,"text":"今天其實有很多的新聞"},{"start":48,"end":54,"text":"其實大概對於我們僑委會委員長在相關的"},{"start":54,"end":58,"text":"不管是我們可能在公務車輛的運用"},{"start":58,"end":61,"text":"或者在預算的使用"},{"start":61,"end":66,"text":"或者向家人參與我們很多公務行程"},{"start":66,"end":70,"text":"這個部分是不是給委員長一點點時間來說明一下"},{"start":70,"end":72,"text":"謝謝 請委員長"},{"start":72,"end":73,"text":"簡單說明好不好"},{"start":73,"end":75,"text":"感謝馬召偉"},{"start":75,"end":78,"text":"自此我們在公務預算上的使用"},{"start":78,"end":82,"text":"一切都是按照過去相關的法律規定"},{"start":82,"end":84,"text":"所以包括今年以來"},{"start":84,"end":90,"text":"例行性的監察院審計部來檢查之外"},{"start":90,"end":94,"text":"民眾黨的委員還特別要求他們再來檢查一遍"},{"start":94,"end":98,"text":"所以我們事實上在兩三個月內被檢查了兩遍"},{"start":98,"end":102,"text":"兩遍的檢查都很清楚的證明"},{"start":102,"end":104,"text":"所有一切都是依法辦理"},{"start":104,"end":109,"text":"沒有任何圖利個人或有圖利私人的情事發生"},{"start":109,"end":114,"text":"所以這些資料我們一直從2020年一直查到現在"},{"start":114,"end":117,"text":"所以我在這邊可以跟委員做以上的報告"},{"start":117,"end":121,"text":"對於我們在過去對像外交"},{"start":121,"end":124,"text":"像僑務的相關的預算"},{"start":124,"end":127,"text":"其實我們都盡量的去協助"},{"start":127,"end":130,"text":"然後也讓大家可以順利的去執行"},{"start":130,"end":132,"text":"可是如果面臨到這樣的問題"},{"start":132,"end":134,"text":"尤其在很多的預算上面"},{"start":134,"end":136,"text":"剛剛委員長有做簡單的說明"},{"start":136,"end":139,"text":"我們希望後續可以提供更詳細的資料"},{"start":139,"end":144,"text":"因為內外的分計還有公司必須要很明確的分明"},{"start":144,"end":148,"text":"因為這必須要對所有我們的人民去做交代"},{"start":148,"end":150,"text":"因為我們在預算不斷增加的情況底下"},{"start":150,"end":152,"text":"我們還是每一分每一毫"},{"start":152,"end":155,"text":"人民的納稅錢都應該要好好的去掌握"},{"start":155,"end":157,"text":"然後去拿捏他的分寸"},{"start":157,"end":160,"text":"接下來我想要請教"},{"start":160,"end":162,"text":"委員長可以請回"},{"start":162,"end":164,"text":"接下來我想要請教院長"},{"start":164,"end":166,"text":"因為我們接下來要審的是"},{"start":166,"end":169,"text":"116年度中央政府的總預算"},{"start":169,"end":173,"text":"我想要先請您看看這兩個數字"},{"start":173,"end":176,"text":"105年度稅出的部分"},{"start":176,"end":180,"text":"有一兆9760億"},{"start":180,"end":182,"text":"到了116年度"},{"start":182,"end":185,"text":"我們稅出大概3兆9266億"},{"start":185,"end":188,"text":"10年幾乎整整多了一倍"},{"start":188,"end":191,"text":"我們不是拿這個數字來批評"},{"start":191,"end":194,"text":"這是行政院自己拿來宣傳的數字"},{"start":194,"end":198,"text":"行政院秘書長說稅出的規模翻倍"},{"start":198,"end":200,"text":"代表台灣國力成長"},{"start":200,"end":205,"text":"院長預算增加一倍就代表國力增加一倍嗎"},{"start":205,"end":208,"text":"如果這個邏輯可以成立"},{"start":208,"end":210,"text":"那治國真的就太簡單了"},{"start":210,"end":213,"text":"因為明年我們可以編4兆5千億"},{"start":213,"end":214,"text":"我們國力又增加"},{"start":214,"end":216,"text":"那後年我們編5兆"},{"start":216,"end":217,"text":"那我們是不是又更強"},{"start":217,"end":219,"text":"我們現在要看的是"},{"start":219,"end":221,"text":"今天立法院在審預算"},{"start":221,"end":224,"text":"我們不是只看今年編多少"},{"start":224,"end":228,"text":"而是我們過去花的錢到底解決了什麼"},{"start":228,"end":232,"text":"這十年來我們增加將近兩兆元的支出"},{"start":232,"end":234,"text":"我們想要請教的是"},{"start":234,"end":237,"text":"我們少子化到底解決了沒有"},{"start":237,"end":241,"text":"然後勞保的財務結構解決了沒有"},{"start":241,"end":244,"text":"健保的財務壓力解決了沒有"},{"start":244,"end":248,"text":"我們閒置的公共設施減少了沒有"},{"start":248,"end":251,"text":"還有我們能源一遇到國際危機"},{"start":251,"end":254,"text":"還要不要拿幾千億出來補貼"},{"start":254,"end":257,"text":"或者我們國防採購的價格"},{"start":257,"end":260,"text":"有沒有因為採購量變大"},{"start":260,"end":263,"text":"或我們國防的預算增加"},{"start":263,"end":265,"text":"而讓我們的戰力變得更強大"},{"start":265,"end":268,"text":"這些都是我們想要討論的"},{"start":268,"end":272,"text":"或者應該要去重視的預算編列的一個實質內涵"},{"start":272,"end":275,"text":"所以預算增加的速度"},{"start":275,"end":281,"text":"我們現在看起來好像遠遠超過我們問題消失的速度"},{"start":281,"end":283,"text":"這是我們今天想要初步做探討的"},{"start":283,"end":288,"text":"因為8月20日行政院正式通過116年度總預算"},{"start":288,"end":293,"text":"宣布整體國防預算一兆1225億"},{"start":293,"end":297,"text":"不到半個月9月3號又提出追加預算"},{"start":297,"end":302,"text":"國防的部分也篩進了1457億"},{"start":302,"end":308,"text":"到了9月23日總統又把明年國防預算喊到超過1.3兆"},{"start":308,"end":312,"text":"總預算剛過追加預算馬上來"},{"start":312,"end":318,"text":"現在看起來好像這個預算只要能夠送進來"},{"start":318,"end":321,"text":"不管用什麼樣的方式然後不斷的加"},{"start":321,"end":323,"text":"年度預算屢創新高還不夠"},{"start":323,"end":326,"text":"特別預算也年年編編得不足不夠"},{"start":326,"end":328,"text":"我們又提追加預算"},{"start":328,"end":331,"text":"我們看看這幾年的時間是增加了非常多"},{"start":331,"end":339,"text":"這3兆9266億事實上真的是國家今年全部的帳嗎"},{"start":339,"end":343,"text":"因為我們還有相關的特別預算"},{"start":343,"end":348,"text":"還有追加預算還有基金還有跨年度已經承諾"},{"start":348,"end":352,"text":"可是未來必須要付款的這些相關的支出"},{"start":352,"end":354,"text":"這些其實才是總帳"},{"start":354,"end":358,"text":"所以在這裡我們看到這一次的追加預算裡面"},{"start":358,"end":366,"text":"又放了6076億其中中油增資大概有2338億"},{"start":366,"end":369,"text":"能源跟民生措施大概1875億"},{"start":369,"end":372,"text":"國防也占了1457億"},{"start":372,"end":374,"text":"當我們看到這些的時候"},{"start":374,"end":379,"text":"因為把它拆成三部分"},{"start":379,"end":384,"text":"這個部分院長有沒有一個簡要的說明"},{"start":384,"end":386,"text":"像這樣的預算我們不斷不斷的編"},{"start":386,"end":390,"text":"我們增加了那麼多我們剛剛講的這些問題到底有沒有解決"},{"start":390,"end":393,"text":"首先委員剛剛第一張的圖卡"},{"start":393,"end":396,"text":"10年來預算倍增國力倍增"},{"start":396,"end":400,"text":"那不代表明年預算再倍增國力就會倍增"},{"start":400,"end":403,"text":"那是用10年的時間大家努力出來的"},{"start":403,"end":406,"text":"每年就持續的緩緩的上升"},{"start":406,"end":411,"text":"即使要國力倍增一倍也不一定預算倍增一倍就夠"},{"start":411,"end":413,"text":"那是要持續累積的"},{"start":413,"end":415,"text":"這個你看這是10年不是一年"},{"start":415,"end":417,"text":"再來您提到的這個少子化"},{"start":417,"end":423,"text":"就是因為我們看到少子化是全世界現在人口減少的未來的一個趨勢"},{"start":423,"end":427,"text":"不僅台灣如此其他世界大部分的國家都如此"},{"start":427,"end":429,"text":"除非是那個比較開發中的國家"},{"start":429,"end":433,"text":"所以我們就提出了人口對策新戰略"},{"start":433,"end":435,"text":"總統所提出人口對策新戰略"},{"start":435,"end":438,"text":"希望從不僅從生育而已"},{"start":438,"end":442,"text":"從托育從教育從居住從職場"},{"start":442,"end":445,"text":"從職場都全面來調整讓大家能夠願意生"},{"start":445,"end":447,"text":"那國防也是如此"},{"start":447,"end":450,"text":"大家也知道現在一般的工程金額都往下再加"},{"start":450,"end":455,"text":"況且是軍工的這個採購"},{"start":455,"end":458,"text":"那我們採購的越精密的越先進的這些武器"},{"start":458,"end":460,"text":"當然要付出更多的"},{"start":460,"end":462,"text":"那現在我們的科技成長又這麼快"},{"start":462,"end":465,"text":"每一座金圓廠起來都是數百億數千億的這樣的投資"},{"start":465,"end":470,"text":"那為了政府可以提供更多的工業區科學園區產業園區"},{"start":470,"end":472,"text":"我們必須說更多的土地的開發"},{"start":472,"end":476,"text":"土地的取得跟開發成本都遠遠超過以前"},{"start":476,"end":480,"text":"那現在我們又對中小微企業又對治水"},{"start":480,"end":482,"text":"要全面來做更多的投入"},{"start":482,"end":484,"text":"四年治水一千億"},{"start":484,"end":487,"text":"八年中小微加碼一千億"},{"start":487,"end":489,"text":"這個都是過去所沒有的"},{"start":489,"end":491,"text":"所以很希望委員能夠支持政府"},{"start":491,"end":493,"text":"是在這個環境底下要做好基礎建設"},{"start":493,"end":495,"text":"做好發展保護國家"},{"start":495,"end":497,"text":"要照顧到人民"},{"start":497,"end":499,"text":"要顧慮到人口對策的新戰略"},{"start":499,"end":501,"text":"這個是全面性的一個規劃"},{"start":501,"end":505,"text":"院長這些問題我們都知道它確實存在"},{"start":505,"end":507,"text":"可是因為我們每年編的預算"},{"start":507,"end":509,"text":"我們必須要看到它的成果"},{"start":509,"end":511,"text":"今天會講到超編、幅編"},{"start":511,"end":514,"text":"我們先把這個定義把它講清楚"},{"start":514,"end":516,"text":"因為不是預算大它就叫幅編"},{"start":516,"end":519,"text":"如果說我們國防需要增加"},{"start":519,"end":520,"text":"那就編"},{"start":520,"end":522,"text":"如果我們的老人變多"},{"start":522,"end":523,"text":"長照需要增加"},{"start":523,"end":525,"text":"那也應該編"},{"start":525,"end":527,"text":"該照顧人民的錢本來就應該花"},{"start":527,"end":529,"text":"可是我們現在要探討的是"},{"start":529,"end":531,"text":"當我們增加這麼多的預算的時候"},{"start":531,"end":533,"text":"它的成果到底是什麼"},{"start":533,"end":537,"text":"我們現在可以來簡單的看一下"},{"start":537,"end":539,"text":"因為我們這一次"},{"start":539,"end":542,"text":"在追加預算裡面"},{"start":542,"end":545,"text":"我們看到這個一千國防的部分"},{"start":545,"end":547,"text":"一千四百五十幾億"},{"start":547,"end":548,"text":"將近一千五百億"},{"start":548,"end":553,"text":"這個裡面它其中有含了無人機的部分"},{"start":553,"end":555,"text":"一個就是濱海堅真型無人機"},{"start":555,"end":558,"text":"還有濱海攻擊型無人機"},{"start":558,"end":561,"text":"另外還有一個小型自殺無人艇"},{"start":561,"end":565,"text":"這三項加起來總共五百五十九億"},{"start":565,"end":568,"text":"追加預算現在都已經十月了"},{"start":568,"end":572,"text":"你明年在我們剛通過的特別條例裡面"},{"start":572,"end":573,"text":"也有這三項"},{"start":573,"end":575,"text":"因為你們說要列進去"},{"start":575,"end":576,"text":"所以在那兩千"},{"start":576,"end":579,"text":"原來行政院只提了兩千一百億"},{"start":579,"end":582,"text":"在野黨甚至提高到兩千四百億"},{"start":582,"end":583,"text":"可是為什麼"},{"start":583,"end":588,"text":"可是為什麼我們在追加預算還要編這三個"},{"start":588,"end":592,"text":"這三項在追加預算占了五百五十九億"},{"start":592,"end":593,"text":"如果它那麼重要"},{"start":593,"end":596,"text":"你當時你在特別條例的時候"},{"start":596,"end":599,"text":"為什麼只有兩千一百億"},{"start":599,"end":602,"text":"你直接變成兩千七百億就好了"},{"start":602,"end":603,"text":"為什麼沒有編"},{"start":603,"end":605,"text":"你現在突然又用追加預算"},{"start":605,"end":608,"text":"聽慧莉法院不准編特別預算"},{"start":608,"end":610,"text":"院長你沒有聽清楚"},{"start":610,"end":612,"text":"你才剛通過特別條例"},{"start":612,"end":614,"text":"就是無人機的部分"},{"start":614,"end":617,"text":"無人機我們通過兩千四百億"},{"start":617,"end":621,"text":"裡面已經含了我剛剛講的這三行"},{"start":621,"end":622,"text":"對不對"},{"start":622,"end":623,"text":"你用年度預算"},{"start":623,"end":625,"text":"你那個是用年度預算"},{"start":625,"end":627,"text":"不是用特別預算"},{"start":627,"end":632,"text":"院長你剛自己提過通過的特別條例"},{"start":632,"end":635,"text":"顯然你並沒有進入狀況"},{"start":635,"end":637,"text":"在我們通過的條例裡面"},{"start":637,"end":638,"text":"部長說明"},{"start":638,"end":640,"text":"我們這三項有沒有在我們"},{"start":640,"end":641,"text":"沒有通過特別預算"},{"start":641,"end":642,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":642,"end":645,"text":"我們行政院版提出來的特別條例"},{"start":645,"end":647,"text":"立法院並沒有通過"},{"start":647,"end":649,"text":"我們現在通過的不是行政院版"},{"start":649,"end":650,"text":"我們通過的"},{"start":650,"end":651,"text":"所以您通過的是"},{"start":651,"end":656,"text":"你們 桂園通過的是那個年度預算"},{"start":656,"end":657,"text":"無人機"},{"start":657,"end":659,"text":"因為這跟委員稍微解釋一下"},{"start":659,"end":660,"text":"在通過的時候"},{"start":660,"end":664,"text":"我們在一百一十六年度的總預算"},{"start":664,"end":665,"text":"已經編進"},{"start":665,"end":667,"text":"原來通過的時間點"},{"start":667,"end":669,"text":"通過時間點是在我們總預算"},{"start":669,"end":670,"text":"已經提出去之後"},{"start":670,"end":672,"text":"不准我們提出特別預算"},{"start":672,"end":675,"text":"因此不准我們提出特別預算的情況之下"},{"start":675,"end":678,"text":"我們只好用追加預算的方式"},{"start":678,"end":680,"text":"追加預算也是年度預算的一種"},{"start":680,"end":682,"text":"所以我們是按照"},{"start":682,"end":684,"text":"桂園所通過的法例"},{"start":684,"end":686,"text":"我們來放在我們的年度預算"},{"start":686,"end":689,"text":"只是我們希望能夠加速的進行"},{"start":689,"end":691,"text":"因此我們放在追加預算"},{"start":691,"end":693,"text":"追加預算也是屬於年度預算"},{"start":693,"end":694,"text":"部長您說錯了"},{"start":694,"end":697,"text":"因為行政院自己就提出了兩千一百億"},{"start":697,"end":699,"text":"我要再強調一次"},{"start":699,"end":701,"text":"你們也提出了兩千一百億"},{"start":701,"end":703,"text":"後來通過特別預算"},{"start":703,"end":708,"text":"希望放在年度預算是在野黨提出的版本"},{"start":708,"end":711,"text":"可是當你們提出兩千一百億的時候"},{"start":711,"end":713,"text":"並沒有把這"},{"start":713,"end":715,"text":"濱海型跟濱海艱真型"},{"start":715,"end":716,"text":"濱海攻擊型"},{"start":716,"end":718,"text":"還有小型自殺無人體"},{"start":718,"end":719,"text":"放在那裡面"},{"start":719,"end":721,"text":"如果它那麼重要"},{"start":721,"end":727,"text":"你們在兩千一百億裡面的特別條例的預算裡面就會提出來"},{"start":727,"end":730,"text":"我們兩千一百億就是擺這幾型的"},{"start":730,"end":732,"text":"那我擺了以後"},{"start":732,"end":734,"text":"後來立法院不是一直在討論嗎"},{"start":734,"end":736,"text":"討論的時間點"},{"start":736,"end":738,"text":"決定不通過的時間點"},{"start":738,"end":740,"text":"如果它已經在那裡面"},{"start":740,"end":742,"text":"如果它已經在裡面"},{"start":742,"end":746,"text":"如果你追加預算就不用再編了"},{"start":746,"end":748,"text":"因為你已經有這三型"},{"start":748,"end":751,"text":"明年的預算公布預算裡面也有"},{"start":751,"end":752,"text":"這個我們在"},{"start":752,"end":756,"text":"委員您的時間上我們可能要稍微排序一下這整個的時間"},{"start":756,"end":757,"text":"沒有"},{"start":757,"end":759,"text":"本來這個特別條例當中"},{"start":759,"end":760,"text":"要編特別預算"},{"start":760,"end":762,"text":"結果大院通過的是"},{"start":762,"end":763,"text":"一個那個條例"},{"start":763,"end":765,"text":"那個不叫特別條例"},{"start":765,"end":766,"text":"但是用年度預算"},{"start":766,"end":768,"text":"所以我們就沒有特別預算可以編"},{"start":768,"end":770,"text":"所以我們就把明年度"},{"start":770,"end":772,"text":"本來要編特別預算那部分"},{"start":772,"end":774,"text":"用追加預算編在今年"},{"start":774,"end":775,"text":"追加預算也是年度預算"},{"start":775,"end":777,"text":"部長的意思是如此"},{"start":777,"end":779,"text":"我們今年的預算什麼時候確定的"},{"start":779,"end":781,"text":"什麼時候送的"},{"start":781,"end":785,"text":"明年116年預算什麼時候送"},{"start":785,"end":786,"text":"8月底送"},{"start":786,"end":787,"text":"8月底"},{"start":787,"end":791,"text":"我們特別預算我們是什麼時候送"},{"start":791,"end":793,"text":"我們沒有特別預算"},{"start":793,"end":794,"text":"特別條例"},{"start":794,"end":796,"text":"如果你們要講這個"},{"start":796,"end":797,"text":"特別條例2100"},{"start":797,"end":800,"text":"我們特別條例一直在立法院審議當中"},{"start":800,"end":801,"text":"什麼時候送的"},{"start":801,"end":803,"text":"如果你們要說時間點"},{"start":803,"end":805,"text":"您講的是特別條例嗎"},{"start":805,"end":806,"text":"對"},{"start":806,"end":807,"text":"特別條例的"},{"start":807,"end":811,"text":"我們是在應該去年就已經提出來的特別條例"},{"start":811,"end":813,"text":"後來就一直討論"},{"start":813,"end":815,"text":"那貴院也很多版本"},{"start":815,"end":817,"text":"後來等到通過"},{"start":817,"end":820,"text":"去年的時候有沒有這三項"},{"start":820,"end":823,"text":"去年再放在特別條例裡面"},{"start":823,"end":824,"text":"有這幾款的無人機"},{"start":824,"end":826,"text":"跟無人艇"},{"start":826,"end":828,"text":"我們就打算用特別預算"},{"start":828,"end":830,"text":"所以他們的需求你們早就知道了"},{"start":830,"end":831,"text":"對不對"},{"start":831,"end":833,"text":"所以這559億"},{"start":833,"end":834,"text":"如果追加預算沒有過"},{"start":834,"end":835,"text":"這個沒有過"},{"start":835,"end":836,"text":"它到底重不重要"},{"start":836,"end":837,"text":"到底需不需要"},{"start":837,"end":841,"text":"因為你們在特別條例裡面已經通過了"},{"start":841,"end":844,"text":"我們沒有通過特別條例"},{"start":844,"end":845,"text":"沒有啊"},{"start":845,"end":848,"text":"我們沒有通過我們的特別條例"},{"start":848,"end":851,"text":"立法院通過的2400億"},{"start":851,"end":854,"text":"甚至比你們通過的2100億還要高"},{"start":854,"end":856,"text":"我們就是追求立法院的決議"},{"start":856,"end":857,"text":"用年度預算"},{"start":857,"end":858,"text":"講完"},{"start":858,"end":861,"text":"它的差別只在於放在年度預算或特別預算"},{"start":861,"end":863,"text":"可是它已經通過了2400億"},{"start":863,"end":866,"text":"再加上明年116年以後的年度"},{"start":866,"end":868,"text":"它每年有400億"},{"start":868,"end":870,"text":"你現在又追加預算裡面"},{"start":870,"end":872,"text":"把這三行等於一樣的東西"},{"start":872,"end":875,"text":"你在追加預算又放了559億"},{"start":875,"end":876,"text":"如果這個這麼重要"},{"start":876,"end":878,"text":"你在2100億以內"},{"start":878,"end":879,"text":"那時候就會放了"},{"start":879,"end":881,"text":"我們現在沒有時間跟你"},{"start":881,"end":883,"text":"跟委員我們先第一進一下"},{"start":883,"end":887,"text":"追加預算四年度預算"},{"start":887,"end":889,"text":"我們因為它的急迫性"},{"start":889,"end":891,"text":"因此我們用追加預算的方式"},{"start":891,"end":892,"text":"遵循大院的指示"},{"start":892,"end":893,"text":"現在10月份"},{"start":893,"end":894,"text":"部長明告訴我"},{"start":894,"end":896,"text":"現在10月份"},{"start":896,"end":897,"text":"已經10月了"},{"start":897,"end":899,"text":"追加預算如果通過以後"},{"start":899,"end":900,"text":"你再來買這三行"},{"start":900,"end":902,"text":"你說有急迫性"},{"start":902,"end":903,"text":"如果它那麼急迫"},{"start":903,"end":907,"text":"你之前放在特別條例裡面"},{"start":907,"end":909,"text":"2100億就應該要放了"},{"start":909,"end":910,"text":"這是第一點"},{"start":910,"end":912,"text":"第二點如果它那麼急迫"},{"start":912,"end":914,"text":"你現在都已經接近年底"},{"start":914,"end":916,"text":"你即時完成採購"},{"start":916,"end":918,"text":"廠商也不可能1月1號就交給你"},{"start":918,"end":921,"text":"所以不要拿這樣子的一個說詞"},{"start":921,"end":923,"text":"來把所有的預算"},{"start":923,"end":926,"text":"你全部都搞亂了"},{"start":926,"end":928,"text":"你有特別的預算"},{"start":928,"end":930,"text":"你有我們的年度預算"},{"start":930,"end":932,"text":"另外還有一筆"},{"start":932,"end":935,"text":"現在的追加預算都已經10月了"},{"start":935,"end":937,"text":"你什麼時候要執行"},{"start":937,"end":938,"text":"你為什麼追加預算"},{"start":938,"end":939,"text":"是這個時候送出來"},{"start":939,"end":941,"text":"好我們現在沒有很多的時間"},{"start":941,"end":944,"text":"116年度的年度預算"},{"start":944,"end":946,"text":"不及編列放進去這一個"},{"start":946,"end":947,"text":"不及編列"},{"start":947,"end":950,"text":"因為當時特別條例前所為"},{"start":950,"end":951,"text":"你出來"},{"start":951,"end":952,"text":"特別條例出來"},{"start":952,"end":953,"text":"部長聽我講完"},{"start":953,"end":956,"text":"你在1.25兆已經有放進這個"},{"start":956,"end":958,"text":"結果你那時候沒有通過"},{"start":958,"end":962,"text":"你在今年的明年的年度預算裡面"},{"start":962,"end":963,"text":"你不及放進去"},{"start":963,"end":965,"text":"所以可見你這麼不重要"},{"start":965,"end":967,"text":"你現在最重要的"},{"start":967,"end":969,"text":"其實只是想要把錢存出來"},{"start":969,"end":970,"text":"不是委員2100億"},{"start":970,"end":972,"text":"國防自主無人載具當中"},{"start":972,"end":973,"text":"就是編列這些"},{"start":973,"end":976,"text":"但是大院並沒有通過那個特別條例"},{"start":976,"end":977,"text":"無人載具的部分"},{"start":977,"end":978,"text":"我們在委員會"},{"start":978,"end":980,"text":"在審查預算的時候"},{"start":980,"end":982,"text":"還會再補一部的"},{"start":982,"end":984,"text":"國防自主無人載具的設備條例"},{"start":984,"end":986,"text":"你們通過了一個條例"},{"start":986,"end":987,"text":"那不叫特別條例"},{"start":987,"end":988,"text":"所以我們沒有辦法"},{"start":988,"end":990,"text":"依序來編特別預算"},{"start":990,"end":992,"text":"因此要編年度預算"},{"start":992,"end":994,"text":"那為了明年來不及"},{"start":994,"end":996,"text":"我們就編今年的最佳預算"},{"start":996,"end":997,"text":"我們剛剛已經說過"},{"start":997,"end":998,"text":"他們來不及的問題"},{"start":998,"end":1002,"text":"現在我們在講到時候審查預算的時候"},{"start":1002,"end":1003,"text":"我們會一一的討論"},{"start":1003,"end":1005,"text":"那你花了這麼多的錢"},{"start":1005,"end":1007,"text":"到底買了什麼樣的東西"},{"start":1007,"end":1009,"text":"而且一次要到位"},{"start":1009,"end":1011,"text":"這個到時候可能還是必須要說清楚"},{"start":1011,"end":1014,"text":"因為在接下來我舉幾個例子"},{"start":1014,"end":1017,"text":"就針對我們在預算部分"},{"start":1017,"end":1019,"text":"他所編列的一些狀況"},{"start":1019,"end":1021,"text":"我們在最佳預算裡面"},{"start":1021,"end":1023,"text":"除了剛剛我說的那三型"},{"start":1023,"end":1025,"text":"無人載具以外"},{"start":1025,"end":1028,"text":"另外還有一個機動阻絕器材"},{"start":1028,"end":1029,"text":"這個部分"},{"start":1029,"end":1033,"text":"我們可能有在軍事上面的需求"},{"start":1033,"end":1035,"text":"可是我們要看的是"},{"start":1035,"end":1039,"text":"這個部分同樣叫做機動阻絕器材"},{"start":1039,"end":1046,"text":"我們在最佳預算的時候編了22億9264萬"},{"start":1046,"end":1048,"text":"您說機動阻絕器材"},{"start":1048,"end":1053,"text":"我們在115年的最佳預算是編了43萬8千元"},{"start":1053,"end":1055,"text":"那就更可笑了"},{"start":1055,"end":1058,"text":"你總經費22億"},{"start":1058,"end":1062,"text":"機動阻絕器材的總經費沒有到22億"},{"start":1062,"end":1065,"text":"有你自己看一下你們編的預算"},{"start":1065,"end":1072,"text":"最佳預算清清楚楚的表格寫了22億9千多萬"},{"start":1072,"end":1074,"text":"今年第一年45萬"},{"start":1074,"end":1077,"text":"這個才是他詭譎的地方"},{"start":1077,"end":1082,"text":"你全案量22億9等於23億"},{"start":1082,"end":1086,"text":"可是你今年第一年你才用45億"},{"start":1086,"end":1088,"text":"等於你頭過心就過"},{"start":1088,"end":1090,"text":"45億一旦過了"},{"start":1090,"end":1092,"text":"然後照表過了以後就"},{"start":1092,"end":1095,"text":"跟委員報告說連日預算都是分開來審"},{"start":1095,"end":1098,"text":"最佳預算跟年度預算都是每年"},{"start":1098,"end":1100,"text":"然後也是分開來審"},{"start":1100,"end":1102,"text":"部長他是全案"},{"start":1102,"end":1103,"text":"你已經當了那麼多年的部長"},{"start":1103,"end":1104,"text":"我相信你很清楚"},{"start":1104,"end":1108,"text":"我現在講的我們先來探討的這個部分是說"},{"start":1108,"end":1112,"text":"你在預算編列上面是不是有浮編超編"},{"start":1112,"end":1114,"text":"剛剛這個機動阻絕器材"},{"start":1114,"end":1118,"text":"我們在最佳預算編了23億"},{"start":1118,"end":1123,"text":"要買356套"},{"start":1123,"end":1127,"text":"美軍一樣他們也有機動阻絕器材"},{"start":1127,"end":1132,"text":"他們是國防後勤局DLA公開的售價"},{"start":1132,"end":1137,"text":"他們一套大概是台幣180萬左右"},{"start":1137,"end":1144,"text":"我們編列的預算一套大概要644萬"},{"start":1144,"end":1149,"text":"我們等於是美軍的幾乎四倍的價格"},{"start":1149,"end":1152,"text":"也就是我們編了23億的金額"},{"start":1152,"end":1158,"text":"美軍只要不到5億元就可以買到這樣子的一個套數主數"},{"start":1158,"end":1160,"text":"甚至美國這是後勤局"},{"start":1160,"end":1164,"text":"他們自己均規的這樣子的一個成熟的產品"},{"start":1164,"end":1167,"text":"所以我們在講這個是第一個例子"},{"start":1167,"end":1168,"text":"就是我們"},{"start":1168,"end":1171,"text":"跟委員報告您講的那個20幾億的這個金額"},{"start":1171,"end":1174,"text":"我印象當中我可能要回去確認一下"},{"start":1174,"end":1176,"text":"並不是全案有這麼多的金額"},{"start":1176,"end":1177,"text":"這是第一點"},{"start":1177,"end":1182,"text":"第二點我們115年最佳預算的編列是辦理先期準備"},{"start":1182,"end":1183,"text":"同樣的狀況"},{"start":1183,"end":1187,"text":"機動阻絕器材在我們116年的年度預算也有編列"},{"start":1187,"end":1190,"text":"相關編列的這個實際的情況下去"},{"start":1190,"end":1194,"text":"再查明這個相關的金額以後再跟委員報告"},{"start":1194,"end":1198,"text":"但是我也不要隨便用浮編爛編這個話來說明"},{"start":1198,"end":1200,"text":"那已經是浮編超編"},{"start":1200,"end":1202,"text":"為什麼舉這個例子"},{"start":1202,"end":1206,"text":"我們之前剛通過的那個特別預算"},{"start":1206,"end":1208,"text":"我們放在普發1萬塊"},{"start":1208,"end":1211,"text":"就前年的通過的那去年初吧"},{"start":1211,"end":1213,"text":"還是前年底"},{"start":1213,"end":1215,"text":"就是我們說戰備水"},{"start":1215,"end":1218,"text":"你從8塊變120塊一樣的意思"},{"start":1218,"end":1220,"text":"我們現在說你可以買"},{"start":1220,"end":1223,"text":"他如果是必要的你可以買"},{"start":1223,"end":1225,"text":"我現在已經把美軍"},{"start":1225,"end":1228,"text":"他的金額已經公開的告訴你了"},{"start":1228,"end":1231,"text":"美國這是後勤局他們公開的"},{"start":1232,"end":1234,"text":"他們採購的金額"},{"start":1234,"end":1236,"text":"他一套就是180萬左右"},{"start":1236,"end":1237,"text":"而且還是軍規的"},{"start":1237,"end":1240,"text":"我們現在一套644元"},{"start":1240,"end":1241,"text":"你可以分批買"},{"start":1241,"end":1242,"text":"那不重要"},{"start":1242,"end":1245,"text":"可是你第一年45萬的招標"},{"start":1245,"end":1246,"text":"下作業費"},{"start":1246,"end":1247,"text":"如果下去以後"},{"start":1247,"end":1249,"text":"後面就是22億"},{"start":1249,"end":1250,"text":"22億23億"},{"start":1250,"end":1252,"text":"我們現在要講的是這個"},{"start":1252,"end":1254,"text":"你在前端如果沒有掌控好"},{"start":1254,"end":1257,"text":"你後端比別人多出好幾倍"},{"start":1257,"end":1258,"text":"去買一樣的東西"},{"start":1258,"end":1260,"text":"而且他還不見得那麼好"},{"start":1260,"end":1261,"text":"這是第一個例子"},{"start":1261,"end":1264,"text":"第二個我們還有一個"},{"start":1264,"end":1268,"text":"在總預算裡面海軍新型救難艦"},{"start":1268,"end":1270,"text":"當年全案的計畫經費"},{"start":1270,"end":1273,"text":"一艘就是36.58億"},{"start":1274,"end":1276,"text":"當時國會已經追問說"},{"start":1276,"end":1278,"text":"為什麼要花那麼多的錢"},{"start":1278,"end":1281,"text":"因為你不能只造一艘大型的拖船"},{"start":1281,"end":1284,"text":"把真正的水下救援能力也應該做進去"},{"start":1284,"end":1286,"text":"因為那時候我們要發展潛艦"},{"start":1286,"end":1289,"text":"所以後來首艦也確實納入了"},{"start":1289,"end":1290,"text":"100公尺的潛水中"},{"start":1290,"end":1293,"text":"還有500公尺水下ROV"},{"start":1293,"end":1296,"text":"這個價格都是可以比較的"},{"start":1296,"end":1301,"text":"美軍現在5000噸級的拖帶打撈救難艦"},{"start":1301,"end":1304,"text":"他公開造價大概新台幣20億"},{"start":1304,"end":1307,"text":"我們的3250噸"},{"start":1307,"end":1309,"text":"比美軍的5000噸還要小"},{"start":1309,"end":1312,"text":"可是我們全案是36.58億"},{"start":1312,"end":1315,"text":"這是首件我們已經完成了"},{"start":1315,"end":1317,"text":"可是我們在明年編的預算"},{"start":1317,"end":1320,"text":"一艘變成多少錢你們知道嗎"},{"start":1320,"end":1323,"text":"105.81億"},{"start":1323,"end":1328,"text":"要造兩艘變成211.62億"},{"start":1328,"end":1330,"text":"平均一艘"},{"start":1330,"end":1333,"text":"我們原來第一艘已經比美國的還要貴了"},{"start":1333,"end":1336,"text":"可是我們現在第二艘跟第三艘"},{"start":1336,"end":1343,"text":"我們平均造價比我們原來的高出2.89倍"},{"start":1343,"end":1346,"text":"每一艘多了69億"},{"start":1346,"end":1347,"text":"他到底增加什麼"},{"start":1347,"end":1350,"text":"我們現在為什麼要特別出來說"},{"start":1350,"end":1353,"text":"我們有浮邊的狀況操邊的狀況"},{"start":1353,"end":1356,"text":"就是因為你原來的船"},{"start":1356,"end":1358,"text":"三十幾億就已經比別人高"},{"start":1358,"end":1361,"text":"那你現在明年變到一艘變成100多億"},{"start":1361,"end":1363,"text":"這樣要怎麼說明"},{"start":1364,"end":1365,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":1365,"end":1367,"text":"我想你現在提出來的資料"},{"start":1367,"end":1370,"text":"因為我手上沒有現成的資料可以回應"},{"start":1370,"end":1374,"text":"但是我們相關的建案的計畫你也都知道"},{"start":1374,"end":1377,"text":"我們從這個需求到這個細分的時候"},{"start":1377,"end":1381,"text":"我們都會做這個成本會做相關的一些分析"},{"start":1381,"end":1383,"text":"那我們出來之後"},{"start":1383,"end":1385,"text":"如果委員有疑議"},{"start":1385,"end":1388,"text":"我們會找時間跟委員做一個進一步的說明"},{"start":1388,"end":1391,"text":"但如果說現在委員在院會上面"},{"start":1391,"end":1394,"text":"那你提出來提出這樣的一個金額"},{"start":1394,"end":1397,"text":"我現在在現場上沒有辦法做核實"},{"start":1397,"end":1401,"text":"然後就一家人去指控說浮邊如何等等"},{"start":1401,"end":1406,"text":"我覺得這樣的質詢方式是不公平的"},{"start":1406,"end":1407,"text":"那個不是不公平"},{"start":1407,"end":1409,"text":"因為我們已經有查了"},{"start":1409,"end":1413,"text":"他當時是因為為什麼一直在增加後面的預算"},{"start":1413,"end":1418,"text":"他兩艘變成增加了3.5倍以上"},{"start":1418,"end":1419,"text":"3.5倍"},{"start":1419,"end":1421,"text":"你就造船而已"},{"start":1421,"end":1423,"text":"我們今天就說他是可以比較的"},{"start":1423,"end":1425,"text":"如果你做得再好"},{"start":1425,"end":1427,"text":"你甚至都可以比美軍的還要好"},{"start":1427,"end":1429,"text":"那你說你增加那麼多"},{"start":1429,"end":1430,"text":"委員是有什麼意思"},{"start":1430,"end":1431,"text":"我們增加的理由"},{"start":1431,"end":1432,"text":"院長你先聽我講完"},{"start":1432,"end":1435,"text":"我們當時增加這麼多的預算"},{"start":1435,"end":1437,"text":"只有一個很重要的理由"},{"start":1437,"end":1439,"text":"沒有人來標"},{"start":1439,"end":1441,"text":"所以這個部分部長如果覺得說"},{"start":1441,"end":1443,"text":"你還有要說明的機會"},{"start":1443,"end":1444,"text":"你到時候可以說"},{"start":1444,"end":1446,"text":"因為這是我們看到的預算"},{"start":1446,"end":1448,"text":"他增加幅度非常高"},{"start":1448,"end":1450,"text":"然後我們覺得不合理的部分"},{"start":1450,"end":1452,"text":"所以我今天特別提出來"},{"start":1452,"end":1454,"text":"所以我們就整體的預算來看"},{"start":1454,"end":1456,"text":"精確數字再請部長跟委員來做"},{"start":1456,"end":1459,"text":"我想到時候委員會審查"},{"start":1459,"end":1462,"text":"委員都有很多的機會"},{"start":1462,"end":1464,"text":"我們一定會跟委員做一個說明"},{"start":1464,"end":1466,"text":"一方面也說明這個新照件"},{"start":1466,"end":1468,"text":"他本身內容配備"},{"start":1468,"end":1471,"text":"維護條件等等或許容許有不同"},{"start":1471,"end":1473,"text":"這個再請部長能夠詳細說明"},{"start":1473,"end":1475,"text":"這個部分你們後續可以說明"},{"start":1475,"end":1477,"text":"因為我是先提出來"},{"start":1477,"end":1481,"text":"我們還要討論的主要是"},{"start":1481,"end":1483,"text":"因為今天是總預算"},{"start":1483,"end":1485,"text":"可是國防預算為什麼特別提出來"},{"start":1485,"end":1488,"text":"我只是簡單舉兩個例子"},{"start":1488,"end":1490,"text":"他後面還有非常的多"},{"start":1490,"end":1492,"text":"在委員會我們會持續的討論"},{"start":1492,"end":1494,"text":"因為國防預算已經占了"},{"start":1494,"end":1496,"text":"我們所有整體總預算"},{"start":1496,"end":1498,"text":"你只要花三塊四塊"},{"start":1498,"end":1500,"text":"就一塊是花在國防上面"},{"start":1500,"end":1502,"text":"所以我們希望他每一筆預算"},{"start":1502,"end":1504,"text":"其實都可以精準到位"},{"start":1504,"end":1506,"text":"真的可以增加我們的戰力"},{"start":1506,"end":1508,"text":"他不會被浪費掉"},{"start":1508,"end":1510,"text":"這是我們今天特別提出來"},{"start":1510,"end":1511,"text":"所以不只國防"},{"start":1511,"end":1515,"text":"我們現在提到剛剛我們一開始講的"},{"start":1515,"end":1517,"text":"少子化的預算"},{"start":1517,"end":1520,"text":"我們在預算如果單價變貴"},{"start":1520,"end":1522,"text":"其實更值得警惕的是"},{"start":1522,"end":1524,"text":"我們的錢每年增加"},{"start":1524,"end":1526,"text":"可是問題一直在惡化"},{"start":1526,"end":1528,"text":"剛剛院長提到的本席同意"},{"start":1528,"end":1530,"text":"就是在全球很多國家"},{"start":1530,"end":1532,"text":"其實都面臨少子化的問題"},{"start":1532,"end":1535,"text":"這個真的是一個重大的國安問題"},{"start":1535,"end":1537,"text":"大家也都在尋求解決的方案"},{"start":1537,"end":1540,"text":"可是我們自己也有自己解決的方案"},{"start":1540,"end":1541,"text":"因為我們有不同的國情"},{"start":1541,"end":1543,"text":"我們不同的整體的環境"},{"start":1543,"end":1545,"text":"那我們錢每年增加"},{"start":1545,"end":1547,"text":"116年度育兒相關津貼"},{"start":1547,"end":1550,"text":"已經編到2101億"},{"start":1550,"end":1553,"text":"114年度我們總生育率"},{"start":1553,"end":1555,"text":"只有0.695"},{"start":1555,"end":1557,"text":"所以立法院預算中心"},{"start":1557,"end":1559,"text":"他的評估也指出"},{"start":1559,"end":1561,"text":"就是相關的這個預算支出"},{"start":1561,"end":1564,"text":"其實沒有辦法提升我們的生育率"},{"start":1564,"end":1566,"text":"其實他效果是有限的"},{"start":1566,"end":1567,"text":"我們要探討的是"},{"start":1567,"end":1570,"text":"我們這樣編列相關的2千多億的預算"},{"start":1570,"end":1574,"text":"我們是想要買什麼樣的政策成果"},{"start":1574,"end":1576,"text":"因為不是說我們錢越編越高"},{"start":1576,"end":1578,"text":"然後補助越來越多就好了"},{"start":1578,"end":1580,"text":"就像我們如果人生病了"},{"start":1580,"end":1583,"text":"我們每吃了多年的藥"},{"start":1583,"end":1586,"text":"然後狀況病狀還在惡化當中"},{"start":1586,"end":1588,"text":"醫生不能告訴我們說"},{"start":1588,"end":1590,"text":"你劑量再增加就好"},{"start":1590,"end":1592,"text":"我們要的是他真的"},{"start":1592,"end":1595,"text":"是不是可以去解決我們的病症"},{"start":1595,"end":1596,"text":"少子化也是"},{"start":1596,"end":1598,"text":"他已經形成國安的問題"},{"start":1598,"end":1601,"text":"因為少子化變成我們的警察消防"},{"start":1601,"end":1602,"text":"我們的老師"},{"start":1602,"end":1603,"text":"我們的醫護人員"},{"start":1603,"end":1604,"text":"我們的勞工"},{"start":1604,"end":1605,"text":"我們的農民"},{"start":1605,"end":1609,"text":"我們的就是年輕化的這一些部分"},{"start":1609,"end":1612,"text":"還有包括我們的軍人什麼都缺"},{"start":1612,"end":1615,"text":"其實他已經造成我們很大的國安的疑慮"},{"start":1615,"end":1617,"text":"所以我們才希望說"},{"start":1617,"end":1619,"text":"我們編列預算我們可以支持"},{"start":1619,"end":1622,"text":"我們也可以做更多的一些相關的補助"},{"start":1622,"end":1624,"text":"可是他必須要達到效果"},{"start":1624,"end":1629,"text":"如果我們這兩千一百多億預算編列下去"},{"start":1629,"end":1632,"text":"我們明年很具體的一個問題"},{"start":1632,"end":1634,"text":"我們希望生育率可以達到多少"},{"start":1634,"end":1636,"text":"因為總是要有一個標準"},{"start":1636,"end":1639,"text":"你之前是零點六六八多"},{"start":1639,"end":1641,"text":"那是不是明年可以到零點七"},{"start":1641,"end":1643,"text":"零點七五還是到零點八"},{"start":1643,"end":1645,"text":"這個跟委員報告"},{"start":1645,"end":1647,"text":"所以我們也謝謝委員剛剛一直提到"},{"start":1647,"end":1648,"text":"國防也好"},{"start":1648,"end":1649,"text":"這個少子化也好"},{"start":1649,"end":1651,"text":"我們需要的委員都會支持"},{"start":1651,"end":1653,"text":"我也希望爭取委員的支持"},{"start":1653,"end":1655,"text":"那我們在推出人口對策新戰略之後"},{"start":1655,"end":1657,"text":"提出了安心休養"},{"start":1657,"end":1659,"text":"加碼教育強化托育"},{"start":1659,"end":1662,"text":"以及友善職場跟劇組減壓"},{"start":1662,"end":1665,"text":"那我最近參加了好幾場的聯合婚禮"},{"start":1665,"end":1667,"text":"我跟你們講"},{"start":1667,"end":1668,"text":"我跟你們講"},{"start":1668,"end":1669,"text":"簽了好幾場聯合婚禮"},{"start":1669,"end":1671,"text":"對數都增加了"},{"start":1671,"end":1672,"text":"但是一年內"},{"start":1672,"end":1674,"text":"我們都沒有辦法看到成績"},{"start":1674,"end":1676,"text":"一定要一年以後"},{"start":1676,"end":1677,"text":"甚至兩年以後"},{"start":1677,"end":1678,"text":"才這個成績才會出現"},{"start":1678,"end":1680,"text":"那這一年我們盡量鼓勵"},{"start":1680,"end":1683,"text":"這個社會結婚的氛圍能夠多一點"},{"start":1683,"end":1686,"text":"生小孩的大家的勇氣能夠大一點"},{"start":1686,"end":1688,"text":"那我們來支持這樣的育兒"},{"start":1688,"end":1690,"text":"今天相關的補助"},{"start":1690,"end":1692,"text":"你簡單的說一下"},{"start":1692,"end":1694,"text":"明年希望達到的育兒"},{"start":1694,"end":1696,"text":"就是我們的生兒"},{"start":1696,"end":1698,"text":"就是我們的出生率"},{"start":1698,"end":1699,"text":"可以達到多少"},{"start":1699,"end":1700,"text":"你是不是可以簡單的"},{"start":1700,"end":1701,"text":"可以有一個數據"},{"start":1701,"end":1703,"text":"一年內是不可能增加太多的"},{"start":1703,"end":1706,"text":"因為我們是推的政策推出來"},{"start":1706,"end":1707,"text":"但是一年內會鼓勵"},{"start":1707,"end":1710,"text":"原來不想生的趕快生"},{"start":1710,"end":1712,"text":"所以我們在訂這個目標的時候"},{"start":1712,"end":1714,"text":"我希望先止住"},{"start":1714,"end":1716,"text":"不要再往下掉"},{"start":1716,"end":1718,"text":"第一年的目標先止住"},{"start":1718,"end":1720,"text":"現在剩下的不要往下掉"},{"start":1720,"end":1722,"text":"以後再逐年慢慢慢慢的回升"},{"start":1722,"end":1725,"text":"所以如果說先止住"},{"start":1725,"end":1727,"text":"今年如果沒有辦法止住呢"},{"start":1727,"end":1729,"text":"那我們就來檢討"},{"start":1729,"end":1730,"text":"這個政策哪裡還不足"},{"start":1730,"end":1732,"text":"或者執行上是不是有缺漏"},{"start":1732,"end":1734,"text":"因為我們旁邊的韓國"},{"start":1734,"end":1736,"text":"其實我們之前跟韓國"},{"start":1736,"end":1738,"text":"大概都是在末端的一二名"},{"start":1738,"end":1740,"text":"可是現在我們看到"},{"start":1740,"end":1742,"text":"其實他有一些已經有具體的成效了"},{"start":1742,"end":1744,"text":"如果說我們相關的這些"},{"start":1744,"end":1746,"text":"可以去取經"},{"start":1746,"end":1748,"text":"我覺得對我們可能還是有好多的"},{"start":1748,"end":1749,"text":"我們也有接近"},{"start":1749,"end":1751,"text":"包括韓國鄰近國家的經驗"},{"start":1751,"end":1753,"text":"我們都有拿來參考"},{"start":1753,"end":1755,"text":"才推出這個人口對策新戰略"},{"start":1755,"end":1756,"text":"家庭支持"},{"start":1756,"end":1758,"text":"因為其實可能還有很多"},{"start":1758,"end":1760,"text":"包括我們的公共建設"},{"start":1760,"end":1762,"text":"因為我們公共建設也增加"},{"start":1762,"end":1764,"text":"明年也增加了五百多億"},{"start":1764,"end":1766,"text":"應該是有五百多億的預算吧"},{"start":1766,"end":1768,"text":"然後可是我們在"},{"start":1768,"end":1774,"text":"也發現我們有很多的閒置空間"},{"start":1774,"end":1777,"text":"有的人你甚至把閒置空間花錢"},{"start":1777,"end":1779,"text":"去把它活化"},{"start":1779,"end":1781,"text":"活化以後他又閒置了"},{"start":1781,"end":1783,"text":"所以這個也是一個很重要的問題"},{"start":1783,"end":1785,"text":"今天我們探討這些我們總預算裡面"},{"start":1785,"end":1787,"text":"增加這麼高的預算"},{"start":1787,"end":1791,"text":"有增加這麼多的將近四兆"},{"start":1791,"end":1796,"text":"我們希望這個幾乎翻倍的這個總預算"},{"start":1796,"end":1799,"text":"我們希望台灣其實經濟也變大"},{"start":1799,"end":1801,"text":"政府的責任也變多"},{"start":1801,"end":1803,"text":"預算增加本來就有合理的部分"},{"start":1803,"end":1807,"text":"可是我們只是要替人民多補後半句"},{"start":1807,"end":1810,"text":"就是國力不能只看政府花多少錢"},{"start":1810,"end":1812,"text":"包括我們的戰力"},{"start":1812,"end":1814,"text":"因為還要看同樣的問題"},{"start":1814,"end":1817,"text":"是不是需要越來越少的錢才能解決"},{"start":1817,"end":1819,"text":"我們剛剛講的這些問題"},{"start":1819,"end":1823,"text":"其實都是非常迫切需要去改善"},{"start":1823,"end":1825,"text":"或者需要去調整"},{"start":1825,"end":1828,"text":"或者急需我們的戰力的去重新"},{"start":1828,"end":1830,"text":"戰力的部分"},{"start":1830,"end":1831,"text":"我們在公建計畫"},{"start":1831,"end":1833,"text":"治水中小圍的補助"},{"start":1833,"end":1835,"text":"科技發展國防經費社福經費"},{"start":1835,"end":1837,"text":"勞保健保的補助"},{"start":1837,"end":1839,"text":"八大社福的補貼都"},{"start":1844,"end":1846,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}