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那這個我們看一下這個平均餘命"},{"start":100.4,"end":103.4,"text":"我們先回頭去看上一張"},{"start":103.4,"end":111.4,"text":"上一張呢 我們當然就是說從這個民國101年到111年"},{"start":111.4,"end":113.4,"text":"那我們這個全國的這個"},{"start":113.4,"end":119.4,"text":"就是我們的平均餘命跟這個全體國民的平均生命的這個差距"},{"start":119.4,"end":121.4,"text":"是一路下降"},{"start":121.4,"end":126.4,"text":"那這個圖看起來都還蠻漂亮的 一直到民國111年"},{"start":126.4,"end":128.4,"text":"好 我們再看下一張"},{"start":129.4,"end":134.4,"text":"但是到民國111年到113年之後呢"},{"start":134.4,"end":139.4,"text":"我們的這個原住民的平均餘命跟全體國民的平均餘命"},{"start":139.4,"end":143.4,"text":"卻開始這個差距又拉大了"},{"start":144.4,"end":146.4,"text":"而且你看喔"},{"start":146.4,"end":152.4,"text":"而且它是連續兩年的統計都變成這個樣子"},{"start":152.4,"end":160.4,"text":"那我們本期有跟這個內政部統計處確認喔"},{"start":160.4,"end":165.4,"text":"就是說不論是用單年的統計或者是說三年平均的數據"},{"start":165.4,"end":170.4,"text":"那這個縮小趨勢確實已經是產生變化了"},{"start":170.4,"end":175.4,"text":"那到底是什麼樣的原因你們有沒有思考過"},{"start":177.4,"end":180.4,"text":"各位報告這個我們有思考喔"},{"start":180.4,"end":184.4,"text":"那就是說我們有請專案學者有針對這個部分來去做說明"},{"start":184.4,"end":186.4,"text":"但是他給我們的結論是說"},{"start":186.4,"end":189.4,"text":"我們原住民的平均餘命不能單看一年或兩年的"},{"start":189.4,"end":193.4,"text":"應該要看整整年的 比如說五年跟十年喔"},{"start":193.4,"end":196.4,"text":"那這個111年的部分它確實是往下這個有注意到"},{"start":196.4,"end":201.4,"text":"但是後來的兩年差距又拉大了"},{"start":201.4,"end":203.4,"text":"所以我們這個部分"},{"start":203.4,"end":206.4,"text":"而且我們也有看那個內政部、衛福部的部分"},{"start":206.4,"end":208.4,"text":"也針對這個部分"},{"start":208.4,"end":212.4,"text":"我們健康住建跟一些相關的計畫都是不變"},{"start":214.4,"end":220.4,"text":"但是這幾年的你有沒有去研究一下有可能是哪些原因"},{"start":220.4,"end":223.4,"text":"你們有沒有跟衛福部也討論過"},{"start":223.4,"end":227.4,"text":"那主要是看十大十一有一個變化"},{"start":227.4,"end":231.4,"text":"你不能說要看五年、十年喔"},{"start":231.4,"end":235.4,"text":"那因為這兩三年已經有出現這樣的趨勢的時候"},{"start":235.4,"end":237.4,"text":"你們就應該要有警覺要趕快去思考"},{"start":237.4,"end":242.4,"text":"而不是說那我是不是還要再等個六、七年之後我再來看"},{"start":242.4,"end":247.4,"text":"我們會針對我們每年的健康年報的那個內容"},{"start":247.4,"end":250.4,"text":"那你從這幾年年報你有沒有發現"},{"start":250.4,"end":253.4,"text":"我們嬰兒死亡率是上升還是下降"},{"start":253.4,"end":258.4,"text":"嬰兒死亡率是比全國的是有高一點多倍"},{"start":258.4,"end":260.4,"text":"那這會不會是一個原因"},{"start":260.4,"end":263.4,"text":"因為這裡面的話我們有一個很大的因素是"},{"start":263.4,"end":265.4,"text":"我們的分母數是太少了"},{"start":265.4,"end":268.4,"text":"那有時候那個分母數太少了"},{"start":268.4,"end":271.4,"text":"一個變動就會那個數據就差很多"},{"start":271.4,"end":274.4,"text":"好我想大概也就特別要提醒你們啦"},{"start":274.4,"end":281.4,"text":"那當然嬰兒死亡率提升這也是一個需要注意的地方"},{"start":281.4,"end":283.4,"text":"這當然會整體拉低"},{"start":283.4,"end":290.4,"text":"就是它會影響那個整個平均餘命的這個數字"},{"start":290.4,"end":293.4,"text":"那我想說是這樣提醒喔"},{"start":293.4,"end":297.4,"text":"我們原住民族健康法的主管機關雖然是衛福部"},{"start":297.4,"end":303.4,"text":"但是呢原民會呢是我們原住民的這個事務的這個最高主管機關"},{"start":303.4,"end":305.4,"text":"那如果有警覺到問題呢"},{"start":305.4,"end":308.4,"text":"就應該要趕快去了解背後的原因"},{"start":308.4,"end":313.4,"text":"那趕快主動去跟衛福部討論這個因應措施"},{"start":313.4,"end":316.4,"text":"我們有跨部會健康那個政策會議"},{"start":316.4,"end":321.4,"text":"好我想在這邊提供你們一點訊息啦"},{"start":321.4,"end":325.4,"text":"當然衛福部初步的分析全國國人平均餘命提高"},{"start":325.4,"end":328.4,"text":"但是原住民平均餘命降低的原因喔"},{"start":328.4,"end":330.4,"text":"因為近年原住民嬰兒死亡率提高"},{"start":330.4,"end":334.4,"text":"還有原住民長者死於肺病都有增加"},{"start":334.4,"end":336.4,"text":"好我想提供這些訊息"},{"start":336.4,"end":340.4,"text":"那也請你們能夠很積極的去注意這些原因好不好"},{"start":340.4,"end":341.4,"text":"好"},{"start":341.4,"end":345.4,"text":"那再來喔一個很重要的這個議題喔"},{"start":345.4,"end":347.4,"text":"在十年前喔"},{"start":347.4,"end":352.4,"text":"我回到立法院之後就是說提出這個原住民金庫的構想"},{"start":352.4,"end":354.4,"text":"那希望解決我們原住民保留地"},{"start":354.4,"end":358.4,"text":"因為移轉限制長期無法做為有效擔保品"},{"start":358.4,"end":360.4,"text":"導致我們族人明明有土地"},{"start":360.4,"end":364.4,"text":"卻無法向金融機構取得貸款的這些問題喔"},{"start":364.4,"end":369.4,"text":"不過這項政策的後續的推動遭遇了很多的困難"},{"start":369.4,"end":371.4,"text":"因此到了上一屆呢"},{"start":371.4,"end":374.4,"text":"我就是改變我們改變策略喔"},{"start":374.4,"end":378.4,"text":"來推動這個原住民保留地貸款信用保證的方式"},{"start":378.4,"end":381.4,"text":"希望透過這個信用保證機制"},{"start":381.4,"end":384.4,"text":"協助族人取得這個金融的資源"},{"start":384.4,"end":388.4,"text":"那當然這個政策歷經了這個三屆的這個行政院"},{"start":388.4,"end":390.4,"text":"三任的行政院長還有無數次"},{"start":390.4,"end":393.4,"text":"大家的很多的這個跨部會的協調"},{"start":393.4,"end":397.4,"text":"那當然我們今年終於上路了喔"},{"start":397.4,"end":400.4,"text":"那我想請教一下主委"},{"start":400.4,"end":402.4,"text":"您說目前受理的狀況怎麼樣"},{"start":402.4,"end":404.4,"text":"目前是喔"},{"start":404.4,"end":407.4,"text":"目前這個我們這個貸款的信用保證"},{"start":407.4,"end":410.4,"text":"已經合已經審核通過三件喔"},{"start":410.4,"end":413.4,"text":"那金額是大概1179萬"},{"start":413.4,"end":416.4,"text":"到這個5月18日為止喔"},{"start":416.4,"end":418.4,"text":"還有案件18件"},{"start":418.4,"end":421.4,"text":"那申請的總金額大概是一億一千多萬喔"},{"start":421.4,"end":425.4,"text":"那現在是銀行在金融機構在審查當中"},{"start":425.4,"end":428.4,"text":"那我們在推動過程"},{"start":428.4,"end":431.4,"text":"我們有主動了解遭遇的困難"},{"start":431.4,"end":433.4,"text":"那主要是借新還舊"},{"start":433.4,"end":436.4,"text":"還有元寶地的信用貸款資金"},{"start":436.4,"end":439.4,"text":"是不是可以作為自購住宅貸款的"},{"start":439.4,"end":441.4,"text":"那個自備款的來源等等"},{"start":441.4,"end":444.4,"text":"我們已經就是說希望能夠來"},{"start":444.4,"end":446.4,"text":"把它協調好"},{"start":446.4,"end":448.4,"text":"目前這些問題都應該都能夠"},{"start":448.4,"end":450.4,"text":"就是說都有所依循"},{"start":450.4,"end":452.4,"text":"好謝謝主委回覆喔"},{"start":452.4,"end":454.4,"text":"那因為每一個金融機構"},{"start":454.4,"end":456.4,"text":"他們都有自己的內規"},{"start":456.4,"end":459.4,"text":"那當然這元寶地的這個貸款"},{"start":459.4,"end":461.4,"text":"是我們政府的政策喔"},{"start":461.4,"end":463.4,"text":"所以要麻煩原民會要很積極的"},{"start":463.4,"end":465.4,"text":"持續與他們溝通"},{"start":465.4,"end":467.4,"text":"要求要承辦的這個公股行庫喔"},{"start":467.4,"end":469.4,"text":"應該要配合計畫執行"},{"start":469.4,"end":470.4,"text":"那除此之外呢"},{"start":470.4,"end":474.4,"text":"本席在這裡有個建議啦"},{"start":474.4,"end":478.4,"text":"就是為了要擴大元寶地貸款"},{"start":478.4,"end":480.4,"text":"信用保證的服務範圍"},{"start":480.4,"end":482.4,"text":"我希望把這個農會呢"},{"start":482.4,"end":485.4,"text":"跟漁會也納入承辦單位"},{"start":485.4,"end":488.4,"text":"這兩個農會跟漁會"},{"start":488.4,"end":492.4,"text":"也是原住民常常會去的"},{"start":492.4,"end":497.4,"text":"會去辦理很多這個金融相關的事務喔"},{"start":497.4,"end":498.4,"text":"那事實上呢"},{"start":498.4,"end":501.4,"text":"元寶地貸款的信用保證制度上路之前"},{"start":501.4,"end":503.4,"text":"許多原鄉地區的農會"},{"start":503.4,"end":505.4,"text":"他們其實就已經有受理"},{"start":505.4,"end":507.4,"text":"元寶地相關貸款的案件"},{"start":507.4,"end":509.4,"text":"那對於這個族人呢"},{"start":509.4,"end":511.4,"text":"的需求跟地方食物運作"},{"start":511.4,"end":513.4,"text":"他們其實相對的"},{"start":513.4,"end":515.4,"text":"是相當有經驗的"},{"start":515.4,"end":517.4,"text":"所以我當初在協調推動"},{"start":517.4,"end":519.4,"text":"元寶地貸款信用保證制度的時候"},{"start":519.4,"end":521.4,"text":"就是在政策上路之後"},{"start":521.4,"end":523.4,"text":"下一步應該要擴大適用範圍"},{"start":523.4,"end":527.4,"text":"讓這個農會、漁會都能夠參與辦理"},{"start":527.4,"end":529.4,"text":"那也方便族人"},{"start":529.4,"end":533.4,"text":"我們會已經在研議讓農會還有漁會來加入"},{"start":533.4,"end":537.4,"text":"我們大概什麼時候可以上路"},{"start":537.4,"end":539.4,"text":"應該三個月內就可以了"},{"start":539.4,"end":541.4,"text":"我們來協調好不好"},{"start":541.4,"end":545.4,"text":"這個元寶地信用貸款的這個政策"},{"start":545.4,"end":547.4,"text":"它不只解決元寶地的"},{"start":547.4,"end":550.4,"text":"就是說無法向金融機構貸款的問題"},{"start":550.4,"end":552.4,"text":"我覺得更深層的一個意義"},{"start":552.4,"end":555.4,"text":"就是它是用關於我們原住民土地正義"},{"start":555.4,"end":557.4,"text":"跟財產保障"},{"start":557.4,"end":560.4,"text":"這兩個很重要的這個指標"},{"start":560.4,"end":563.4,"text":"那政府將土地返還給族人呢"},{"start":563.4,"end":566.4,"text":"是歷史正義的重要實現"},{"start":566.4,"end":568.4,"text":"那如果因為我們制度限制"},{"start":568.4,"end":570.4,"text":"導致土地無法在金融機構流通"},{"start":570.4,"end":573.4,"text":"那影響的是原住民的財產權"},{"start":573.4,"end":578.4,"text":"所以我希望原民會你們一定要積極讓原住民"},{"start":578.4,"end":581.4,"text":"讓元寶地貸款增加這個廣度跟適用性"},{"start":581.4,"end":584.4,"text":"保障原住民的這個財產價值"},{"start":584.4,"end":585.4,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":600.4,"end":602.4,"text":"好 不好意思喔"},{"start":602.4,"end":604.4,"text":"剛剛那個紙黏住了"},{"start":604.4,"end":605.4,"text":"抱歉"},{"start":605.4,"end":612.4,"text":"對 因為跟教人非常簡短不到一頁"},{"start":612.4,"end":614.4,"text":"好 是這樣喔"},{"start":614.4,"end":619.4,"text":"針對這個原住民自治列槍的這個安全訓練的課程"},{"start":619.4,"end":621.4,"text":"那在新制上路之後"},{"start":621.4,"end":625.4,"text":"我們實務上課程就是"},{"start":625.4,"end":627.4,"text":"就是遲遲無法順利開辦"},{"start":627.4,"end":632.4,"text":"那造成我們族人很多這個申請資格時程充滿不確定性"},{"start":632.4,"end":634.4,"text":"那我在這個6月4號的時候"},{"start":634.4,"end":637.4,"text":"有邀集原民會跟國防部召開協調會"},{"start":637.4,"end":639.4,"text":"那原民會有很明確的表示"},{"start":639.4,"end":641.4,"text":"下半年規劃辦理40場的訓練課程"},{"start":641.4,"end":643.4,"text":"並在7月正式上路"},{"start":643.4,"end":644.4,"text":"那這個時候"},{"start":644.4,"end":646.4,"text":"這個是你們當時承諾的進度"},{"start":646.4,"end":648.4,"text":"我要請教就是說"},{"start":648.4,"end":650.4,"text":"目前的整體規劃是不是"},{"start":651.4,"end":652.4,"text":"有沒有什麼問題"},{"start":652.4,"end":655.4,"text":"能不能在7月順利的啟動"},{"start":655.4,"end":656.4,"text":"好 謝謝委員的關心"},{"start":656.4,"end":659.4,"text":"我想那個原住民自治列槍訓練的課程"},{"start":659.4,"end":661.4,"text":"我們現在已經在上網辦理招標"},{"start":661.4,"end":663.4,"text":"我們預計在7月初會完成決標"},{"start":663.4,"end":665.4,"text":"那廠商徵選出來之後"},{"start":665.4,"end":667.4,"text":"我們就開始受理報名"},{"start":667.4,"end":670.4,"text":"我們爭取在7月底8月初來開第一場的課程"},{"start":670.4,"end":672.4,"text":"好 那現在又蹦出8月初"},{"start":672.4,"end":674.4,"text":"7月底8月初"},{"start":674.4,"end":676.4,"text":"我們本來規劃就是7月初"},{"start":676.4,"end":678.4,"text":"那現在又蹦出8月初"},{"start":678.4,"end":679.4,"text":"7月底8月初"},{"start":679.4,"end":681.4,"text":"我們本來規劃就是7月受理報"},{"start":681.4,"end":683.4,"text":"那台東花蓮原住民人口眾多"},{"start":683.4,"end":687.4,"text":"但目前缺乏就是合法的靶場"},{"start":687.4,"end":688.4,"text":"可以供訓練使用"},{"start":688.4,"end":690.4,"text":"那本席呢也在協調會中"},{"start":690.4,"end":692.4,"text":"協調了國防部"},{"start":692.4,"end":695.4,"text":"在不影響國軍訓練的任務"},{"start":695.4,"end":697.4,"text":"跟靶場使用的時段下"},{"start":697.4,"end":699.4,"text":"國防部已經有同意"},{"start":699.4,"end":701.4,"text":"優先提供原民會辦理課程使用"},{"start":701.4,"end":703.4,"text":"好 那依照國防部的作業機制"},{"start":703.4,"end":705.4,"text":"各個靶場當月使用情形"},{"start":705.4,"end":708.4,"text":"會在前一個月的第三週確認"},{"start":708.4,"end":711.4,"text":"所以台東花蓮7月份"},{"start":711.4,"end":713.4,"text":"國軍靶場可提供的時段"},{"start":713.4,"end":714.4,"text":"近期就會確定"},{"start":714.4,"end":716.4,"text":"所以請這個原民會務必加強"},{"start":716.4,"end":719.4,"text":"跟國防部的這個橫向溝通跟聯繫"},{"start":719.4,"end":722.4,"text":"確保我們這個場地能夠及時到位"},{"start":722.4,"end":724.4,"text":"也讓這個課程能夠順利辦理"},{"start":724.4,"end":726.4,"text":"好 不要再讓族人等待"},{"start":726.4,"end":727.4,"text":"好 謝謝主委"},{"start":727.4,"end":729.4,"text":"我們會來注意這個期程"},{"start":729.4,"end":730.4,"text":"好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T11:55:47.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:55:49.691667+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，麻煩請原民會主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-17T11:55:49.691667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T11:55:50.691667+08:00","text":"麻煩曾主委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-06-17T11:55:50.691667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T11:55:51.691667+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T11:55:49.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:55:50.868750+08:00","text":"主委好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T11:55:52.321875+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:56:32.092308+08:00","text":"我們今天先來關心一下原住民與全國國民平均餘命的問題，原住民與全國國民平均餘命已經不再呈現縮小的趨勢，這件事情我在去年底主計總處公布2024年平均餘命資料的時候，當時本席就在衛環委員會有特別提醒衛福部，我不太確定當天是不是也有原民會的代表在會議上面。沒有。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T11:56:34.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:56:40.200000+08:00","text":"待會兒有兩張圖讓大家看一下，這是一個很重要的警訊啦！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T11:56:40.633333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:56:47.166667+08:00","text":"我不曉得從去年開始到現在，你們有沒有意識到這個很嚴重的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T11:56:52.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:57:48.313043+08:00","text":"我們先看一下，這是2022年的資料，下一張是2023年的資料，好，我們看一下平均餘命，從民國101年到111年，原住民的平均餘命跟全體國民平均壽命的差距是一路下降，這個圖看起來都還滿漂亮的，一直到民國111年。","quality":0.633},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T11:57:48.313043+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T11:57:49.313043+08:00","text":"我們再看下一張。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T11:57:48.530435+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:57:56+08:00","text":"但是民國111年到113年，原住民平均餘命跟全體國民平均餘命的差距又開始拉大了，而且你看喔！","quality":0.405},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T11:57:57.066667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:58:02.066667+08:00","text":"它是連續2年的統計都變成這個樣子。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T11:58:03.733333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:58:25.122222+08:00","text":"本席有跟內政部統計處確認，不論是用單年的統計或者是3年平均的數據，這個縮小趨勢確實是已經產生變化了，到底是什麼樣的原因，你們有沒有思考過？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"羅處長赫踛","start":"2026-06-17T11:58:27.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:58:42.929412+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這個我們有思考，我們也有請專家學者針對這個部分去做說明，但是他給我們的結論是，我們原住民的平均餘命不能單看1年或2年的，應該要看長年的，譬如5年跟10年。","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"羅處長赫踛","start":"2026-06-17T11:58:43.873684+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:59:02.177778+08:00","text":"111年的部分它確實是往下，這個有注意到，但是後來的2年那個差距又拉大了，而且我們也有看內政部跟衛福部針對這個部分，健康促進跟一些相關的計畫都是不變。","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T11:59:04.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:59:10.139130+08:00","text":"但是這幾年的變化，你有沒有去研究一下有可能是哪些原因？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T11:59:10.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:59:13.169231+08:00","text":"你們有沒有跟衛福部討論過？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅處長赫踛","start":"2026-06-17T11:59:13.685714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:59:17.114286+08:00","text":"主要是看十大死因有一個變化，也有看……","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T11:59:17.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:59:20.672727+08:00","text":"你不能說要看5年、10年啊！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T11:59:21.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:59:32.182609+08:00","text":"因為這2、3年已經有出現這樣的趨勢的時候，你們就應該要有警覺，要趕快去思考，而不是覺得是不是還要再等個6、7年之後再來看？","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"羅處長赫踛","start":"2026-06-17T11:59:32.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:59:37.136842+08:00","text":"我們會針對我們每年健康年報的內容，包含……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T11:59:37.614286+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:59:43.185714+08:00","text":"你從這幾年年報有沒有發現我們嬰兒死亡率是上升還是下降？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅處長赫踛","start":"2026-06-17T11:59:43.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:59:48.105882+08:00","text":"嬰兒死亡率是比全國的高一點多倍。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T11:59:48.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T11:59:50.200000+08:00","text":"這會不會是一個原因？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅處長赫踛","start":"2026-06-17T11:59:50.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:00:01.185714+08:00","text":"因為這裡面的話，有一個很大的因素是我們的分母數太少了，有時候分母數太少，一個變動數據就會差很多。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T12:00:01.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:00:20.031579+08:00","text":"好，我特別要提醒你們，嬰兒死亡率提升也是一個需要注意的地方，這當然會整體拉低，會影響整個平均餘命的數字。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T12:00:20.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:00:43.122222+08:00","text":"我是這樣提醒，原住民族健康法的主管機關雖然是衛福部，但是原民會是原住民事務的最高主管機關，如果有警覺到問題就應該要趕快去瞭解背後的原因，趕快主動去跟衛福部討論因應措施。","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"羅處長赫踛","start":"2026-06-17T12:00:43.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:00:46.185714+08:00","text":"我們有跨部會健康政策會議，衛福部跟我們……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T12:00:46.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:00:51.066667+08:00","text":"好，我在這邊提供你們一點訊息啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T12:00:51.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:01:10.400000+08:00","text":"根據衛福部初步的分析，全國國人平均餘命提高，但是原住民平均餘命降低的原因，因為近年原住民嬰兒死亡率提高，還有原住民長者死於肺病都有增加，我提供這些訊息，也請你們能夠很積極地去注意這些原因，好不好？好。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T12:01:11.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:01:54.169231+08:00","text":"再來，一個很重要的議題，在10年前我回到立法院之後，有提出「原住民金庫」的構想，希望解決原住民保留地因為移轉限制長期無法作為有效擔保品，導致我們族人明明有土地卻無法向金融機構取得貸款的這些問題，不過這項政策後續的推動遭遇了很多的困難，因此到了上一屆我們就改變策略，來推動原住民保留地貸款信用保證的方式，希望透過這個信用保證機制協助族人取得金融的資源。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T12:01:54.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:02:12.233333+08:00","text":"當然這個政策歷經了3任的行政院長，還有很多跨部會的協調，在今年終於上路了，我想請教一下主委，目前受理的狀況怎麼樣？","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-06-17T12:02:12.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:02:35.150000+08:00","text":"目前貸款的信用保證已經審核通過3件，金額是1,179萬；到5月18日為止，還有案件18件，申請的總金額大概是一億一千多萬，現在是金融機構在審查當中。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-06-17T12:02:35.775000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:03:00.150000+08:00","text":"我們在推動過程有主動地瞭解遭遇的困難，主要是借新還舊，還有原保地的信用貸款資金是不是可以作為自購住宅貸款的自備款來源等等，我們希望能夠把它協調好，目前這些問題都有所依循，應該可以彙整。","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T12:03:00.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:03:01.650000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝主委回復。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T12:03:02.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:03:19.177778+08:00","text":"因為每一個金融機構都有自己的內規，但是原保地的貸款是我們政府的政策，所以麻煩原民會要很積極地持續與他們溝通，要求承辦的公股行庫應該要配合計畫執行。好。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T12:03:19.566667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:03:46.775000+08:00","text":"除此之外，本席在這裡有個建議，為了要擴大原保地貸款信用保證的服務範圍，我希望把農會跟漁會也納入承辦單位，因為原住民也常常會去農會跟漁會辦理很多金融相關的事務。對。","quality":0.827},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T12:03:47.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:04:19.066667+08:00","text":"事實上原保地貸款的信用保證制度上路之前，許多原鄉地區的農會其實就已經有受理原保地相關貸款的案件，對於族人的需求跟地方實務運作，他們相對地是相當有經驗的，所以我當初在協調推動原保地貸款信用保證制度，在政策上路之後，下一步應該要擴大適用範圍，讓農會、漁會都能夠參與辦理，也方便族人的處理。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-06-17T12:04:19.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:04:23.177778+08:00","text":"對，我們已經在研議，讓農會還有漁會來加入。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T12:04:24.066667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:04:27.066667+08:00","text":"大概什麼時候可以上路？","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2026-06-17T12:04:27.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:04:31.150000+08:00","text":"應該3個月內就可以，我們來協調，好不好？好。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T12:04:32.542857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:05:14.150000+08:00","text":"原保地信用貸款的政策不只解決原保地無法向金融機構貸款的問題，我覺得更深層的一個意義就是，它是攸關於我們原住民土地正義跟財產保障這兩個很重要的指標，政府將土地返還給族人，是歷史正義的重要實現，如果因為制度限制導致土地無法在金融機構流通，影響的是原住民的財產權，所以我希望原民會你們一定要積極讓原住民原保地貸款增加廣度跟適用性，保障原住民的財產價值。是。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T12:05:14.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:05:15.066667+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T12:05:44.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:06:22.257143+08:00","text":"針對原住民自製獵槍安全訓練的課程，在新制上路之後，實務上課程遲遲無法順利開辦，造成很多族人申請資格時程充滿不確定性，我在6月4日的時候，有邀集原民會跟國防部召開協調會，原民會明確表示，下半年規劃辦理40場訓練課程，並在7月正式上路，這個是你們當時承諾的進度，我要請教的是，目前的整體規劃有沒有什麼問題？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T12:06:22.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:06:25.100000+08:00","text":"能不能在7月順利啟動？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳處長坤昇","start":"2026-06-17T12:06:25.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:06:26.275000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員的關心。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳處長坤昇","start":"2026-06-17T12:06:27.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:06:40.223529+08:00","text":"原住民族獵槍訓練的課程，我們現在已經在上網辦理招標，預計在7月初會完成決標，廠商徵選出來之後，我們就開始受理報名，我們爭取在7月底開第一場的課程。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T12:06:40.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:06:43.900000+08:00","text":"好，現在又蹦出7月底、8月初這個時間。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"陳處長坤昇","start":"2026-06-17T12:06:49.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:06:51.066667+08:00","text":"我們本來規劃就是7月受理辦理。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T12:06:51.566667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:07:36.177778+08:00","text":"臺東、花蓮原住民人口眾多，但目前缺乏合法的靶場可以供訓練使用，本席也在協調會中協調了國防部，在不影響國軍訓練的任務跟靶場使用的時段下，國防部已經同意優先提供原民會辦理課程使用，依照國防部的作業機制，各靶場當月使用會在前一個月的第三週確認，所以臺東、花蓮7月份國軍靶場可提供的時段，近期就會確定，所以請原民會務必加強跟國防部的橫向溝通和聯繫，確保場地能夠及時到位，也讓這個課程能夠順利辦理，不要再讓族人等待。","quality":0.995},{"speaker":"陳處長坤昇","start":"2026-06-17T12:07:36.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:07:39.200000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員，我們會來注意這個期程。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T12:07:39.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:07:40.066667+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-06-17T12:07:40.566667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:07:42.852381+08:00","text":"非常感謝召委，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-17T12:07:43.152381+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:07:44.152381+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-17T12:07:44.452381+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:07:56.166667+08:00","text":"我們中午不休息，因為可能還有一些委員要質詢，如果有委員要補充血糖，大家就自行用餐，沒有關係。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-17T12:07:56.466667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:07:59.609524+08:00","text":"下一位請蘇清泉委員發言。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-17T12:07:59.909524+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:08:03.052381+08:00","text":"蘇清泉，蘇清泉，蘇清泉不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-17T12:08:03.352381+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:08:06.495238+08:00","text":"下一位請陳冠廷委員發言。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-17T12:08:06.795238+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:08:09.938095+08:00","text":"陳冠廷，陳冠廷，陳冠廷不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-17T12:08:10.238095+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:08:13.380952+08:00","text":"下一位請葉元之委員發言。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-17T12:08:13.680952+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:08:16.823810+08:00","text":"葉元之，葉元之，葉元之不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-17T12:08:17.123810+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:08:20.266667+08:00","text":"下一位請徐欣瑩委員發言。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1156,"blocks":[["陳委員瑩：（11時55分）謝謝主席，麻煩請原民會主委。"],["主席：麻煩曾主委。"],["曾主任委員智勇：委員好。"],["陳委員瑩：主委好。我們今天先來關心一下原住民與全國國民平均餘命的問題，原住民與全國國民平均餘命已經不再呈現縮小的趨勢，這件事情我在去年底主計總處公布2024年平均餘命資料的時候，當時本席就在衛環委員會有特別提醒衛福部，我不太確定當天是不是也有原民會的代表在會議上面。"],["曾主任委員智勇：沒有。"],["陳委員瑩：待會兒有兩張圖讓大家看一下，這是一個很重要的警訊啦！我不曉得從去年開始到現在，你們有沒有意識到這個很嚴重的問題。我們先看一下，這是2022年的資料，下一張是2023年的資料，好，我們看一下平均餘命，從民國101年到111年，原住民的平均餘命跟全體國民平均壽命的差距是一路下降，這個圖看起來都還滿漂亮的，一直到民國111年。","我們再看下一張。但是民國111年到113年，原住民平均餘命跟全體國民平均餘命的差距又開始拉大了，而且你看喔！它是連續2年的統計都變成這個樣子。本席有跟內政部統計處確認，不論是用單年的統計或者是3年平均的數據，這個縮小趨勢確實是已經產生變化了，到底是什麼樣的原因，你們有沒有思考過？"],["羅處長赫踛：跟委員報告，這個我們有思考，我們也有請專家學者針對這個部分去做說明，但是他給我們的結論是，我們原住民的平均餘命不能單看1年或2年的，應該要看長年的，譬如5年跟10年。111年的部分它確實是往下，這個有注意到，但是後來的2年那個差距又拉大了，而且我們也有看內政部跟衛福部針對這個部分，健康促進跟一些相關的計畫都是不變。"],["陳委員瑩：但是這幾年的變化，你有沒有去研究一下有可能是哪些原因？你們有沒有跟衛福部討論過？"],["羅處長赫踛：主要是看十大死因有一個變化，也有看……"],["陳委員瑩：你不能說要看5年、10年啊！因為這2、3年已經有出現這樣的趨勢的時候，你們就應該要有警覺，要趕快去思考，而不是覺得是不是還要再等個6、7年之後再來看？"],["羅處長赫踛：我們會針對我們每年健康年報的內容，包含……"],["陳委員瑩：你從這幾年年報有沒有發現我們嬰兒死亡率是上升還是下降？"],["羅處長赫踛：嬰兒死亡率是比全國的高一點多倍。"],["陳委員瑩：這會不會是一個原因？"],["羅處長赫踛：因為這裡面的話，有一個很大的因素是我們的分母數太少了，有時候分母數太少，一個變動數據就會差很多。"],["陳委員瑩：好，我特別要提醒你們，嬰兒死亡率提升也是一個需要注意的地方，這當然會整體拉低，會影響整個平均餘命的數字。我是這樣提醒，原住民族健康法的主管機關雖然是衛福部，但是原民會是原住民事務的最高主管機關，如果有警覺到問題就應該要趕快去瞭解背後的原因，趕快主動去跟衛福部討論因應措施。"],["羅處長赫踛：我們有跨部會健康政策會議，衛福部跟我們……"],["陳委員瑩：好，我在這邊提供你們一點訊息啦！根據衛福部初步的分析，全國國人平均餘命提高，但是原住民平均餘命降低的原因，因為近年原住民嬰兒死亡率提高，還有原住民長者死於肺病都有增加，我提供這些訊息，也請你們能夠很積極地去注意這些原因，好不好？"],["羅處長赫踛：好。"],["陳委員瑩：再來，一個很重要的議題，在10年前我回到立法院之後，有提出「原住民金庫」的構想，希望解決原住民保留地因為移轉限制長期無法作為有效擔保品，導致我們族人明明有土地卻無法向金融機構取得貸款的這些問題，不過這項政策後續的推動遭遇了很多的困難，因此到了上一屆我們就改變策略，來推動原住民保留地貸款信用保證的方式，希望透過這個信用保證機制協助族人取得金融的資源。當然這個政策歷經了3任的行政院長，還有很多跨部會的協調，在今年終於上路了，我想請教一下主委，目前受理的狀況怎麼樣？"],["曾主任委員智勇：目前貸款的信用保證已經審核通過3件，金額是1,179萬；到5月18日為止，還有案件18件，申請的總金額大概是一億一千多萬，現在是金融機構在審查當中。我們在推動過程有主動地瞭解遭遇的困難，主要是借新還舊，還有原保地的信用貸款資金是不是可以作為自購住宅貸款的自備款來源等等，我們希望能夠把它協調好，目前這些問題都有所依循，應該可以彙整。"],["陳委員瑩：好，謝謝主委回復。因為每一個金融機構都有自己的內規，但是原保地的貸款是我們政府的政策，所以麻煩原民會要很積極地持續與他們溝通，要求承辦的公股行庫應該要配合計畫執行。"],["曾主任委員智勇：好。"],["陳委員瑩：除此之外，本席在這裡有個建議，為了要擴大原保地貸款信用保證的服務範圍，我希望把農會跟漁會也納入承辦單位，因為原住民也常常會去農會跟漁會辦理很多金融相關的事務。"],["曾主任委員智勇：對。"],["陳委員瑩：事實上原保地貸款的信用保證制度上路之前，許多原鄉地區的農會其實就已經有受理原保地相關貸款的案件，對於族人的需求跟地方實務運作，他們相對地是相當有經驗的，所以我當初在協調推動原保地貸款信用保證制度，在政策上路之後，下一步應該要擴大適用範圍，讓農會、漁會都能夠參與辦理，也方便族人的處理。"],["曾主任委員智勇：對，我們已經在研議，讓農會還有漁會來加入。"],["陳委員瑩：大概什麼時候可以上路？"],["曾主任委員智勇：應該3個月內就可以，我們來協調，好不好？"],["陳委員瑩：好。原保地信用貸款的政策不只解決原保地無法向金融機構貸款的問題，我覺得更深層的一個意義就是，它是攸關於我們原住民土地正義跟財產保障這兩個很重要的指標，政府將土地返還給族人，是歷史正義的重要實現，如果因為制度限制導致土地無法在金融機構流通，影響的是原住民的財產權，所以我希望原民會你們一定要積極讓原住民原保地貸款增加廣度跟適用性，保障原住民的財產價值。"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["陳委員瑩：好，謝謝。","針對原住民自製獵槍安全訓練的課程，在新制上路之後，實務上課程遲遲無法順利開辦，造成很多族人申請資格時程充滿不確定性，我在6月4日的時候，有邀集原民會跟國防部召開協調會，原民會明確表示，下半年規劃辦理40場訓練課程，並在7月正式上路，這個是你們當時承諾的進度，我要請教的是，目前的整體規劃有沒有什麼問題？能不能在7月順利啟動？"],["陳處長坤昇：好，謝謝委員的關心。原住民族獵槍訓練的課程，我們現在已經在上網辦理招標，預計在7月初會完成決標，廠商徵選出來之後，我們就開始受理報名，我們爭取在7月底開第一場的課程。"],["陳委員瑩：好，現在又蹦出7月底、8月初這個時間。"],["陳處長坤昇：我們本來規劃就是7月受理辦理。"],["陳委員瑩：臺東、花蓮原住民人口眾多，但目前缺乏合法的靶場可以供訓練使用，本席也在協調會中協調了國防部，在不影響國軍訓練的任務跟靶場使用的時段下，國防部已經同意優先提供原民會辦理課程使用，依照國防部的作業機制，各靶場當月使用會在前一個月的第三週確認，所以臺東、花蓮7月份國軍靶場可提供的時段，近期就會確定，所以請原民會務必加強跟國防部的橫向溝通和聯繫，確保場地能夠及時到位，也讓這個課程能夠順利辦理，不要再讓族人等待。"],["陳處長坤昇：好，謝謝委員，我們會來注意這個期程。"],["陳委員瑩：好，謝謝。非常感謝召委，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","我在這邊宣告：我們中午不休息，因為可能還有一些委員要質詢，如果有委員要補充血糖，大家就自行用餐，沒有關係。","下一位請蘇清泉委員發言。蘇清泉，蘇清泉，蘇清泉不在。","下一位請陳冠廷委員發言。陳冠廷，陳冠廷，陳冠廷不在。","下一位請葉元之委員發言。葉元之，葉元之，葉元之不在。","下一位請徐欣瑩委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"agendarec_url":null,"pdf_url":"https://ppg.ly.gov.tw/ppg/SittingCommitteesInfo/download/communique1/final/pdf/115/51/LCIDC01_1155104_00001.pdf","meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會部分；二、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人海\n峽交流基金會115年度預算書案；三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進會115\n年度預算書案；四、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會、原住民族文化發展中\n心部分；五、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於直轄市及縣市政府一般性補助款原住民族委員\n會、原住民族文化發展中心部分；六、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分\n關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金─原住民族綜合發展基金；七、審查原住民族委員會函送財團\n法人原住 民族文化事業基金會及財 團法人原住民族語言研 究發展基金會 115 年度預算書案\n（詢答）","agenda_id":"1155104_00001","doc_url":"https://ppg.ly.gov.tw/ppg/download/communique1\\work\\115\\51\\LCIDC01_1155104_00002.doc","page_end":94,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-15-17","speakers":["廖先翔","許忠信","張智倫","張宏陸","王美惠","吳琪銘","李柏毅","王鴻薇","高金素梅","黃捷","謝龍介","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林宜瑾","陳瑩","徐欣瑩","林倩綺","盧縣一","蘇巧慧","丁學忠","傅崐萁"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-06-17"],"gazette_id":"1155104","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155104_00002"],"pdf_page_offset":0}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}