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各位委員今天應邀列席貴委員會就李昆澤委員等19位委員你據的這個交通部航港局紙之法第6條條文修正草案交通部高速公路局組織法"},{"start":1805.288,"end":1824.374,"text":"第七條修正草案及李坤澤等18位委員女巨的交通部公路局組織法第七條條文修正草案來提出本部的處理意見來供各委員參考首先就委員提案的部分李委員等就本部三個"},{"start":1826.735,"end":1847.565,"text":"三個局現行的組織法有關限制交通自衛制人員自限期屆滿日也就是航港局大概是111年的9月15號高速公路局是111年3月69日起留任原續訂的自衛同序列或交易序列的職務至離職為止"},{"start":1851.307,"end":1875.469,"text":"此這樣的一個規定不得升遷的一個規定除影響了相關人員的權益以外也影響了機關的彈性用人用人的一個機制不利於機關組織的一個運作所以刪除相關限制升遷的規定明定這些人員能夠繼續適用原法令的一個規定"},{"start":1877.551,"end":1895.593,"text":"或所屬機關的其他職務這樣的一個修法的一個方向本部深恩表敬佩並表達謝意而且樂見其成我們說明如下也就是本部的處理意見第一個是剛才提案委員李委員大概"},{"start":1896.453,"end":1915.562,"text":"也说明过了本来这几个机关里面有关不管是滋味人员或是派用人员他们是有一致的一个相关的规范也就是在一定的期限内他是不得调任其他机关的但是这样的一个规定尤其是派用人员的留任的规定"},{"start":1916.202,"end":1942.59,"text":"在114年8月1號經總統公佈修正放寬派用人員與派用時能夠適用現行的一個派用的調任規定也就是予以鬆綁我們考量這樣的一個有關自衛人員他其實是經過國家考試及及格後分發至交通事業機構派用人員是依照主要的一個學歷跟工作的經驗來任用的一個方式"},{"start":1944.151,"end":1965.664,"text":"雖然有所不同但是前者卻受到一個調任的限制我們覺得會影響自衛人員的一個相關的一個生涯的一個規劃跟相關的一個權益所以這一次修法能夠兼顧本部所屬這個現行的交通自衛制的人員也就是目前在公路局"},{"start":1966.324,"end":1991.632,"text":"有416人在高工局有17人航港局有108人總共有581人整體上還有官務人員的8人這些人的權益能夠跟派用人員權益橫平而且能夠強化人才的調任跟培訓所以我們很樂見這樣的修法能夠儘速完成立法程序以提升本部相關施政的效能"},{"start":1992.092,"end":2013.614,"text":"最後還是再次的謝謝李昆澤等9位委員的提案並請各位委員能夠支持 儘速完成立法程序來解除有關限制不得升遷的一個規定以上 謝謝好 謝謝城市長的機關說明那基於提出書面報告的機關有沒有口頭的補充"},{"start":2015.031,"end":2041.778,"text":"沒有補充報告的話我們機關代表就報告完畢相關的書面內容請各位參考並列入公報記錄提案說明跟機關報告已進行完畢我們現在開始來進行詢答今天本日因為跟司法法制跟交通委員會聯席今天我看親民的來詢答的委員也"},{"start":2042.518,"end":2069.804,"text":"人數也非常多那我們兩個委員會聯席尋答人數比較多那我們對討論條文的時候還是有很多機會來充分的表達意見所以我們今天尋答的時間本委員會就5分鐘非本聯席委員會3分鐘我們均不再做延長那上午10點30分我們截止發言登記現在我們請登記第一位黃國昌委員來做尋答"},{"start":2076.189,"end":2103.511,"text":"謝謝主席麻煩有請交通部的政事還有權序部的代表請交通部還有我們權序部兩位好我在這邊我要先公開的肯定權序部為什麼公開肯定權序部兩件事情"},{"start":2104.622,"end":2131.999,"text":"依法行政說到做到什麼意思立法院三讀通過警察人員人事條例為了要照顧我們辛苦的警校他們退休以後的所得替代率有著以提升我之前請教權序部說這個法律三讀生效了"},{"start":2133.161,"end":2158.511,"text":"全序部給退休的景銷有關於退休金的審定函是依照新法做還是依照舊法做你們說因為電腦系統有轉換你們會按照新法做而且在年底以前會做完這個是在司法法治委員會大概兩三次詢答的內容我得到全序部的回覆"},{"start":2159.754,"end":2182.131,"text":"這件事情我既然開始追蹤要捍衛我們警消的權利還有國會立法的尊嚴我就一定會追下去最近我從警察同仁那邊我拿到了選區部發的新的審定函這個新的審定函請選區部的代表看一下"},{"start":2184.059,"end":2202.299,"text":"在螢幕上面通通都有右手邊當然各自的部分我一定要把人家塗掉114年12月16號也就是在年底以前他們說新的審定函會發給全國的警校第一個問題這個新的審定函現在發完了嗎"},{"start":2205.615,"end":2229.858,"text":"報告委員部分的比較特殊性質的部分的話我們是需要用人工來計算所以有些大概2000多個人是需要人工計算你們現在已經發出去的含有幾份這個部分數字的部分要回去再詳查那會後可以提供給你們會後提供好不好總共發出去的幾份有多少人收到你們現在有一個大致的數字嗎"},{"start":2232.426,"end":2260.404,"text":"跟委員報告因為這個數字的部分的話因為可能要你們發出去有一萬人嗎應該就是我所知道的是大概有幾千人是要人工計算的那其他的已經發出去的就像我現在貼在上面的審定函一樣嗎現在兩個部分嘛第一個如果是按照本來公務人員退休撫恤法的規定那個錢是由基金給"},{"start":2261.952,"end":2274.555,"text":"如果是警察人員人事條例提高的所得替代率你們上面的函是說這個差額要另由服務機關依規定發給這個原服務機關指的是哪裡內政部嗎這個部分的話應該是內政部要應該是內政部沒有 因為要講清楚因為台灣是法治國家"},{"start":2287.706,"end":2308.624,"text":"雖然最近這一個禮拜發生的事情讓很多法律人開始在懷疑台灣還是不是法治國家我為什麼肯定權序部啊立法院三讀通過總統公佈的法律你們依照法律的規定所發給退休警消的審定函當然是依照新法嘛"},{"start":2309.895,"end":2337.803,"text":"這是為什麼你們會在12月底的時候把所有退休警銷他們必須要重新審定的審定函發出去的理由嘛我的理解沒有錯吧是嗎好 第二個這些退休的警銷拿到審定函了以後你看左手邊的 大概一個月啦差了人家五千塊左右我如果是用警政二階一級"},{"start":2338.837,"end":2360.895,"text":"年功奉575來看的話一個月大概少了人家5000塊我們國家對退休的景銷一個月少給人家5000塊這個帳還賴著那這個帳要賴到什麼時候啊全序部有沒有資訊"},{"start":2365.137,"end":2384.883,"text":"跟委員報告這個部分的話可能就是要再洽那個內政部那邊確認欠錢的是內政部嗎 是嗎應該講說是服務機關依規定發給那這個部分的一個作業的部分的話是因為內政部是主管機關所以必須由內政部那邊作業對嘛 所以我說欠錢的是內政部沒有錯嗎是嗎編列預算的部分是由內政部 謝謝"},{"start":2392.205,"end":2412.917,"text":"欠這些警銷的啦其實是中華民國中華民國他是法人嘛內政部是主管機關嘛現在政府沒有編預算讓這些警銷一個月少拿了五千塊我的問題是啊公法上面的請求權發生了沒有警權序部"},{"start":2416.287,"end":2441.263,"text":"拿到權序審定函之後 當事人就具有請求權他拿到權序審定函以後 他就具有請求權說得很好我們中華民國的文官 就是有水準嘛念過行政法嘛 知道依法行政的ABC嘛當然是拿到審定函了以後 我為什麼一直跟你們追審定函"},{"start":2442.472,"end":2461.125,"text":"就是要早日的確定他們公法上面請求權的數額嘛算出來了以後才知道國家欠他們多少錢嘛下一個問題他拿到審定函了以後發生了公法上面的請求權可以依照這個行政處分直接申請行政執行嗎請回答"},{"start":2465.902,"end":2491.568,"text":"不要怪我再考你行政法啦這個是很基本的行政法的原理原則每一個公務員考過高考的都有這個水準啦來跟委員報告如果是當事人對於這個群職審定函有不符或者是他想要依據這個群職審定函來請求相關的權益的話那可以依照規定來請求救濟你講得太抽象了啦"},{"start":2493.905,"end":2516.482,"text":"我再跟你講明白一點行政處分如果那個權利是國家的國家就可以直接拿行政處分去申請行政執行對不對對吧好但是這個行政處分它如果發生的權利是給人民的人民是沒有辦法直接拿行政處分去申請行政執行對不對是嗎"},{"start":2521.497,"end":2540.377,"text":"對嘛 這個是行政法的ABC我是覺得很痛苦那這個時候人民該怎麼辦人民只能夠依照這個行政處分所給他公法上面的請求權所產生的請求權基礎依照行政訴訟法的規定提起給付之訴"},{"start":2541.238,"end":2570.371,"text":"提起幾付之數 拿到幾付判決了以後就可以當作執行民意 申請強制執行所有中華民國的財產全部都是強制執行的標的 對不對可以申請強制執行是嗎 好 那現在來啦我的政府賴著不給錢公法上面的請求權拒不給付 那沒有辦法人民啊 只有一條路"},{"start":2571.755,"end":2592.115,"text":"就是對國家提起公法上面給付之訴透過給付之訴取得執行名義申請強制執行我是想利用這一場質詢喚起喚起這些掌握權力的人法治國依法行政的ABC"},{"start":2593.561,"end":2610.555,"text":"同時讓所有的警消同仁藉由這一場質詢聽到他們接下來該怎麼辦他們可能沒有那個勞力時間費用不願意花那個勞力時間費用去打官司沒有關係明年1月1號以後如果內政部還是繼續賴著不還欠錢不給的話"},{"start":2620.168,"end":2642.584,"text":"我會幫他們提起團體訴訟我會幫他們提起團體訴訟所有退休的景銷依照行政訴訟要提起給付之數所有團體訴訟的程序成本我會幫他們承擔好 謝謝好 謝謝黃國昌委員那我們接下來請陳培宇委員宣導"},{"start":2654.673,"end":2657.64,"text":"好 謝謝主席有請交通部 謝謝請陳次"},{"start":2663.089,"end":2687.163,"text":"陳次早安我想直接跟你談關於拒絕排審總預算藍白現在正在做的事情因為今天是交通部我們就來談一談交通建設有哪一些會停擺當然這是我們辦公室的整理也想聽聽看你們的看法跟你們目前掌握到的數字我們來看一下如果總體預算明年度新增加支出的整個行政院有2900多億"},{"start":2688.644,"end":2717.381,"text":"那這2900多億呢有中央有地方但是我們看到如果連災害準備金都被卡住明年有任何的災情任何災損不管是像颱風或像花蓮光復香這種災難可能都會影響到人民生命安全我們來看下一張第一個TPAS人民很有感的對不對市長是好 你可不可以說一下就你們交通部蒐集到的輿情或者是人民的反應給你們哪些正向的回饋"},{"start":2718.536,"end":2742.205,"text":"我想TPAS的一個推動委員上頭有講到大概是每個月到目前為止大概不只是98.2萬到目前為止已經超過百萬了所以到目前為止超過百萬而且我們相關實施了以後也有做過相關民意調查也是獲得多數通勤組的支持"},{"start":2742.645,"end":2764.662,"text":"所以這樣的一個政策我們認為是有必要繼續延續的好 繼續延續 可是關鍵來囉 次長我們看到的資訊是這樣本來的計畫是112到114對不對也就是到了115它對你們來說就是新計畫是不是這樣說是 我們從115以後研擬了一個四年期的到118年的新計畫"},{"start":2765.983,"end":2783.088,"text":"而且他變成公務預算對不對所以如果在這個邏輯底下總預算沒有辦法排審那因為他又是新計劃115到118所以TPAS我可以這樣說嗎到明年的1月1號今天已經20幾號了到明年1月1號會發生什麼事情"},{"start":2784.595,"end":2805.851,"text":"我想因為他是屬於新興的一個計畫所以依照相關的一個預算的程序或規定可能明年大概這一筆的預算就無法通知好下一張我們來看一下這個時候呢很愛收割的蔣萬安很愛收割假裝講好話的侯友宜他們就開始說中央不出我們地方來買單如果他這樣說你怎麼辦"},{"start":2809.478,"end":2824.049,"text":"我想我們還是一樣因為TPAS是由地方政府來研擬出來的地方政府研擬可是你們中央有出錢吧我們中央有相關的一個經費所以如果中央政府的相關的預算無法通過的話我們大概就無法遲疑"},{"start":2824.429,"end":2848.359,"text":"好 我們來看到這個新聞蔣恩甚至說她曾經大力稱讚TPAS的成效她還說她嚴領台北市政府自己的方案我就不知道她有沒有問過侯友宜有沒有問過謝國良北北基一日生活圈非常重要更有很多民眾直接在社群網站上表達他們的不滿也就是說如果總預算沒有辦法排審沒有辦法往下做TPAS就受到影響"},{"start":2849.039,"end":2860.662,"text":"那我就要問 所有這些各縣市的立委尤其在北北基 我們來看一下有誰王弘威 徐巧欣 賴世寶 羅志強 李彥秀他們如果擺爛 不審總預算你蔣萬安要買單嗎接下來 洪孟凱 葉元之 張志倫 廖先祥 林德福 羅明才一樣繼續在立法院擺爛侯友宜要買單嗎再來 牛許廷 萬美玲 魯明哲 呂育玲 圖全吉 邱若驊"},{"start":2877.707,"end":2885.484,"text":"這些是桃園的立委請問桃園市長張善政你要買單嗎最後基隆的立委林佩祥"},{"start":2886.776,"end":2912.946,"text":"這些人口口聲聲說要服國立民光是一個上班族通勤的TPAS他們難道不知道這是新計劃嗎他們難道不知道這影響到已經超過百萬人嗎而且是每個月但是不省就是不省擺爛就是擺爛我真的不知道這些擺爛的藍白立委他們的縣市首長未來如果出來收割說他們要自行買單"},{"start":2914.306,"end":2943.474,"text":"然後一邊又讓傅坤祺在立法院對交通部咆哮叫交通部掏錢你們怎麼辦我想跟委員報告有關這個TPAS的一個政策剛才我已經特別說過這是一個部裡頭要執行的政策但是有關相關預算的一個動之或之用還是要依照相關的程序所以在明年如果相關的立法院的預算沒有通過的話我想這部分我們交通部是無法支應的"},{"start":2943.894,"end":2973.074,"text":"沒關係我們的網民就說沒有Tpass我就改開車而已啊讓台北市整天大塞車蔣萬安你聽到了嗎侯友宜你聽到了嗎張善政你們聽到了嗎謝國良你們聽到了嗎北北雞討一日生活圈以後就開始大塞車一日生活圈了來謝謝次長下一題一樣是跟次長有關再幫大家複習一次這些都是沒有辦法動之的預算的新增資本支出新增計劃不管是中央來自地方錢都會受到影響好來看下一張"},{"start":2974.114,"end":2997.02,"text":"第二個是跟交通部有關治水的相關預算對不對這些治水的預算呢像是今年零七二八中南部的好大雨還有丹納斯颱風都造成中南部非常大的災情跟損害台南的地方也說啊爭取經費來整治甚至呢民眾黨的張啟凱口口聲聲都說我們沒有在關心治水我們沒有在關心我們就來看一下"},{"start":2997.6,"end":3017.592,"text":"治水計畫受到影響台南 高雄 嘉義 雲林我不知道這些縣市的立委是不是跟我們的縣民有仇還是跟地方政府有仇可是很奇怪這裡面就有藍白執政的縣市他們到底是跟誰有仇我就說他們其實是在跟這些縣民跟台灣人有仇來看下一張"},{"start":3018.613,"end":3025.357,"text":"包含即將宣布參選 我們看到記者會張啟凱說你要選嘉義我就不知道你要怎麼對嘉義鄉親交代還有口口聲聲說要選台南市長的謝龍介我也不知道他要怎麼面對這個治水預算一樣是新計畫沒有辦法排審 沒有辦法使用市長你怎麼看"},{"start":3036.963,"end":3049.92,"text":"我想因為這是治水的預算跟交通部在相關的交通工程或道路工程那也是一樣如果是屬於新興計畫的話大概我們後續的推動都會出現問題好 看下一張"},{"start":3052.023,"end":3065.332,"text":"高雄市長柯之恩我現在呼喚你拜託你排審下總預算吧還有雲林縣長張立善你也很會跟中央喊話叫中央補助受災農民我也很想問張立善你叫得動哪些立委要不要趕快呼喚他們一下所以最後我要提醒"},{"start":3067.393,"end":3090.679,"text":"藍白立委回頭試案不要只會去中國領旨辦事拜託你們盡快排審總預算讓交通跟地方基礎建設及早上路而不是在災害發生之後就只會罵中央跟中央要錢然後坐在這裡一整排就說福國利民福國利民我真的不知道福給了誰利給了誰所以如果總預算沒有過地方建設會停擺災害風險會升高我想最後這個結果就請藍白立委自行承擔"},{"start":3095.72,"end":3110.809,"text":"以上謝謝次長 謝謝主席 謝謝好 謝謝陳佩玉委員來 接下來請林國誠委員林國誠委員不在林國誠委員 林國誠來 沒來王逸川委員來做詢問我今天穿得好 又穿水褲"},{"start":3121.687,"end":3149.374,"text":"好謝謝 早晚我們請次長交通部請交通部陳次長委員早今天跟這一個李坤哲委員的這個提案看到各部會現在看起來大家應該沒有人反對那因為這也是牽扯到交通部相關同仁的權益那這個人數也不會再增加只會越來越少所以這個"},{"start":3150.748,"end":3169.408,"text":"也謝謝你們的支持啦好謝謝委員的支持剛剛這個陳培毅委員的這個問題啊我再釐清一下這1月1號開始這個T pass會繼續用嗎對不對呃民眾的話繼續加持的話當然就是繼續用好那是誰受影響呃"},{"start":3172.825,"end":3201.664,"text":"業者嘛業者也會影響最主要是業者嘛因為最後的經費的補助因為民眾付的錢不夠就是政府補貼嘛所以交通部編了這個預算來補貼最後補貼補貼到業者的身上所以就會變成說這個預算什麼時候通過你們才能動之補助那補助原則上先給縣市政府轉給業者嘛對程序上是這樣嗎是OK好所以這個"},{"start":3203.205,"end":3231.795,"text":"明年開始的這個TPAS大家還是會繼續用票還是會繼續賣就是倒楣的是所有的公共運輸相關的業者他們比較晚拿到錢對相關的業者可能會在對或補助的機會的期間會可能會延後延後延後好第二個最近這個公共運輸包括鐵路或捷運的這些危害安全的事情"},{"start":3232.745,"end":3251.889,"text":"我知道民航法有對於這些包括謊報 恐嚇這些有相關的規定民航法規定的很嚴格鐵路法我查完之後只有破壞或竊取鐵路相關的設施有相關的刑罰上的罰則那鐵路法對恐嚇恐嚇高鐵 恐嚇台鐵的這些人"},{"start":3262.106,"end":3289.548,"text":"現在交通部的看法怎麼樣有沒有必要去修鐵路法來處理這些課題我想委員特別提到有關台鐵或高鐵接獲恐嚇那在目前相關鐵路法沒有相關的一個機制那這部分我們會請鐵道局再去通盤檢討必要的時候儘速提出相關的一個修法對 我建議是這樣就是說因為民航法規定得非常清楚"},{"start":3290.609,"end":3299.333,"text":"那其他的大概都是用這個社會秩序維護法所以這個法則相對民航法刑法這比較輕所以我是建議包括鐵路法還有這個大眾捷運法因為鐵路法裡面是有相關法則你們在68條"},{"start":3310.999,"end":3334.698,"text":"後來加了之一 之二 之三這些都是相關的法則不過都還是在因為去破壞了這些跟鐵路有關的設施然後才會受到包括刑法所以我是建議在68條的前後有沒有機會再補進去關於這個部分 這鐵路法大眾捷運法大眾捷運法的部分"},{"start":3337.779,"end":3358.844,"text":"我看完應該是相關破壞或者是運送運送類似危險的這些物品所以如果這些事情要修法大眾協運法也順便檢討我們會通盤就有關委員剛才特別也提到的有關鐵路 捷運軌道相關的一個法令會一定來做修正然後還有一個是公共運輸場站"},{"start":3360.621,"end":3384.85,"text":"因為我們高鐵台鐵的這個軌道的廠站這個明顯就是一個站體那我們現在因為台灣非常多的轉運站那有些轉運站的規模其實也夠大那進出的公路客運市區公車也都人數都很頻繁那對於這一些公共運輸的這個客運的轉運站這些廠站"},{"start":3385.632,"end":3392.075,"text":"看在哪一些法規裡頭啊也要進行相關的規範因為他也可能恐嚇這一個公共運輸的場站客運的公路客運的場站市區公車的場站這些都有可能那我想這一塊也請交通部啊"},{"start":3402.389,"end":3429.332,"text":"在這個部分盡快來研議來進行相關的修法這樣可以嗎可以 我們謝謝委員的建議我想公共運輸我們會整體來看除了恐嚇或者是攻擊等等的看有沒有相關的法令還有缺乳的我們一併把它補上最後一個是台北車站下面有一個防災聯合防災中心我今天早上確認了以後次長你知道那個防災中心平場裡面有幾個人嗎"},{"start":3432.506,"end":3455.585,"text":"我知道他是長期開設 裡面幾個人我告訴你好不好整個高鐵 台鐵 北捷 桃捷 地下街所有的廣場 設了一個聯合防災中心平常進駐人數兩人一個主任 一個承辦同仁"},{"start":3457.642,"end":3470.209,"text":"所以那個地方啊每次在檢報的時候非常風光啊螢幕一百多個一堆人去參觀過 對吧平常我現在比我現在講話那裡就是兩個人那你說那兩個人是什麼單位的嗎市長不知道齁我告訴你那兩個是台鐵北捷 高鐵 桃捷通通沒有人進駐"},{"start":3487.162,"end":3490.465,"text":"後來知道事情發生了 次長你知道他沒有什麼聯絡嗎那兩位同仁怎麼聯絡北捷 聯絡高鐵 聯絡陶捷嗎用耐啦 用耐群組啦 這樣怎麼會服啦次長 早一天再去看一下這些相關的"},{"start":3506.704,"end":3516.53,"text":"管理單位啊 包括警政單位 大家也去看一下改進一下啦不然那個地方 我今天聽到說兩個人在這裡進駐 我實在是卡不認了這以後怎麼聯合防災啦我好 委員報告一下事件發生之後 我們鐵道局大概第一個會去做有關跟相關的單位會去檢討剛才委員特別提到那個聯合應變中心他有一個應變的機制我知道啦 你們有分三級嘛"},{"start":3533.519,"end":3539.504,"text":"但是平常就是兩位那升到二級的時候就變幾位升到一級你們的防護團的團長就要進來總幹就要進來但是這個其他單位好像跟他們沒有關係好像就是交通部的台鐵在管那裡可是那整個車站不是只有台鐵好不好 時間的關係再請你們"},{"start":3554.496,"end":3567.524,"text":"把那個防災中心啊 一個聯合防災中心 裡面兩個人還沒看但是他的收尾系統有Q到議員來我知道啦 就接進來啦 問題是現場監控的人員太少了這個我們一併來檢討好 謝謝原委員要加強啦 謝謝阿川委員的提醒好 來 也謝謝次長接下來有請許富奎委員 謝謝"},{"start":3585.047,"end":3588.608,"text":"謝謝主席 有請我們陳次長好 次長有請 謝謝我也好次長 我想現在這個藍白的立委就忙著政治鬥爭尤其他們關心什麼要彈劾賴總統而已真的完全不顧我們台灣的這個民生還有我們這個整個這個明年總預算的一個執行要癱瘓我們這個中央政府跟地方政府"},{"start":3611.554,"end":3629.532,"text":"當然我想我們要關切的還是在於說今天已經是12月24號 還有一星期就進入一個新的年度剛剛我們 包含我們培育委員也好我們幾位委員在關心的是未來這樣總預算沒有省我們的中央政府跟地方政府執行的上面"},{"start":3630.052,"end":3656.392,"text":"尤其我們關心的這個交通建設也好很多這個百姓的這個踢趴式的權益也好當然我想行政院包含我們交通部我想面對後面這個明年新的這個年度到底要怎麼樣對大眾去強調說這個未來對百姓權益受影響的部分市長我想是不是有一個比較明確的一個說法能夠讓大眾知道他們未來面臨的這個壓力跟損害的部分能不能做一個說明"},{"start":3657.285,"end":3676.36,"text":"我想跟委員報告因為所有的交通的施政大概都是會從預算上來表達所以剛才有特別提到如果年度的預算如果沒有排審來通過以後雖然有既有的預算機制可以去動用既有的計畫可以來推動但是對於新興的一個計畫可能會受到影響"},{"start":3677.12,"end":3704.321,"text":"我們也都曉得很多的計畫就是因為與時俱進所以才會推出所有的新興的計畫當然在這樣的情況下那個就會受到影響所以大家比較關切的跟很多民眾有關的像TPAS這樣的一個政策就會受到影響所以這部分我想我們會跟社會大眾在廣泛的一個說明說如果預算沒有通過對於交通部相關施政上的一個影響會是怎樣"},{"start":3705.262,"end":3723.581,"text":"同樣的也會說明對他們的影響會是怎樣對 我想這個必須要講清楚說明白誰造的因 解的果我想要讓百姓非常清楚的知道尤其我們屏東有個國民黨的委員都死去亂講說他幫屏東要了一百多億看了幾天"},{"start":3724.662,"end":3749.799,"text":"他只有講到增加那一塊沒有講到我們一般統籌性補助計畫性補助減少了一百多億我們總共這樣子算一算我們少了四十六億這真的要怎麼亂說我想這個對百姓真的要講清楚說明白我想我們今天的重點在於說這個我們前幾天很不幸發生這樣的一個無差別的一個攻擊事件那我想我過去好幾次在委員會也特別提到"},{"start":3750.659,"end":3770.608,"text":"這個對於我們整個這個交通場域的一個安全性包含一個警力的配置保全人員的配置我想針對這部分市長我們有沒有針對這樣的一個事件會造成因為國際媒體都大幅報導這樣的一個問題會不會造成我們國外遊客對於台灣這個旅遊環境的一個負面印象我們有沒有做一個掌握的一個狀況"},{"start":3771.758,"end":3779.684,"text":"我想事件的一個發生當然是在國際間產生了一個很大的報導但是隨著我們後續的一個處理我相信相關的一個掌控掌握應該是對整個事件的一個發生是有達到一個災害控管的一個效果當然對於國際旅客來這一部分我們觀光署大概也會透過外館或外交部我相信"},{"start":3797.757,"end":3815.778,"text":"也會對外說明整個事件的處理跟對於整個國家整個社會安全而往的一個影響那我想影響的一個程度應該是有限的我們會繼續來加大力道來做相關的一個宣導不要讓它影響這個國外旅客來台旅遊"},{"start":3816.936,"end":3842.185,"text":"市長 我想我們交通部的職責是在於這個對於陸海空的一個場域的一個安全性那當然我們會有搭配一些保全人力的一個搭配但是我覺得最重要還是一個建井率的一個要求那這部分我想我也要求了警政署針對我們包含我們這個尤其像屏東來講我們一些這個公路 鐵路這些的一個建井率的一個負擔但是因為警政署也面臨到他們現有的井率不足"},{"start":3842.665,"end":3865.397,"text":"那加上有些遠景的年紀比較大這個行動力上面無力負擔那真的這個部分我想交通部也應該要一個跨部位的一個整合機制市長我們有沒有可能在我們相關的交通場域設置一個所謂的一個緊急包圍的一個按鈕我想讓我們的百姓如果一旦發生狀況可以有一個救援的一個機制有沒有可能做這樣的一個規劃跟設計"},{"start":3866.929,"end":3881.281,"text":"我想委員有關緊急按鈕的這樣的一個規劃設計我想我們會去跟相關的一個廠站或各運具的主管機關大家共同來討論看這樣設置有沒有可行如果可行的話應該是怎麼樣來設置"},{"start":3882.702,"end":3902.576,"text":"因為我們現在也看到當然我們這個場域裡面都有一個監視的一個系統但是我們也發現包含來講我們的警力的配置保全人員配置我們一個整個整合的一個系統還是有出現一些的狀況那這部分我想交通部怎麼樣來做一個全國性的一個通報系統的一個整合有沒有後續能不能盡快來做這樣一個規劃處理"},{"start":3904.798,"end":3920.898,"text":"那委員剛才特別提到那個見景率其實還有保全所以是我的了解事件發生之後其實就軌道的部分已經都透過像見景率要提高巡查的點也要增加等等的"},{"start":3921.358,"end":3936.826,"text":"這些他們大概都有積極的作為那至於說是不是有緊急案例等等的這樣的一個我想我們再來通盤的檢討那這個一個月之內給我們一份書面報告好不好好那最後我想我還是要求這個航港局跟高工局的部分"},{"start":3937.626,"end":3961.887,"text":"航港局每年都會進行一個演練那因為我們的演練項目主要是針對船隻被挾持或者是企圖登陸台灣的一個演練模式並沒有針對港口設施或是郵輪碼頭這樣的一個涉及一個恐攻或是放火的一些事件我想這個航港局能不能做一個規劃把這個部分納進去局長這部分能不能是 謝謝委員的提醒"},{"start":3962.867,"end":3987.624,"text":"跟委員報告 依照上綱法以及國際標準的規定我們上綱裡面每一年都必須要進行防恐相關的保全演習應該強化這樣的項目是 針對委員提醒的這個項目我們也會針對這一次這麼重大的共濟事件會納入未來我們每一年的演習的重要科目"},{"start":3988.404,"end":4006.132,"text":"那另外高工舉部分因為我們這個我們的服務區現在都湧進很多的遊客那尤其明年有九個至少有九個連續假期我想這個連續假期遊客量更大那我們也擔心這個有人會故意在這個服務區裡面會製造一些危急的一個狀況那是不是高工舉應該針對這個演練部分也應該強化"},{"start":4007.392,"end":4027.185,"text":"是跟委員報告服務區的部分我們已經跟國道公路警察局還有這一個我們委外的廠商還有保全人員都已經有做相關的一個這個聯繫跟這個緊急應變事件的一個規劃那演習的部分我們也會加強應該強化一個密度跟次數好不好好謝謝好謝謝許副委員謝謝市長李坤澤委員謝謝"},{"start":4041.319,"end":4050.423,"text":"謝謝主席 請一下陳彥博次長好 次長有請 謝謝葉協榮局長 陳文睿局長林福山局長次長好推動自衛制的一個修法其實是要有利於公部門的流產跟攬產目前各單位自衛制人員的一個統計公路局 高工局 航港局"},{"start":4070.911,"end":4091.903,"text":"他們平均年資都大概22年23年24年也大概都跟我到交通委員會的時間差不多在這樣一個狀況裡面其實我們看到他們的平均年齡也大概跟我們也都差不多其實我們"},{"start":4093.24,"end":4107.599,"text":"面對這種狀況最主要是要討論說近年來交通跟土木工程的這種面臨人才的缺乏其實問題是非常嚴重那也影響到公務機關那出現不少的公務人員"},{"start":4108.98,"end":4133.463,"text":"轉任民間 甚至是考取公務人員的資格之後他仍然前往民間就業的狀況其實是非常嚴重的提升待遇 改善同仁的業務環境確保待遇的一個平等我想是成為流財 攬財的一個重要的關鍵同時在公路局 高工局跟航港局"},{"start":4134.608,"end":4156.497,"text":"高階公務人員逐漸的一個退休那他們經驗豐富而且經歷完整的這種中下層的職位制人員他們面臨什麼上面的退休但是中下層這些優秀人員他沒有辦法晉升那導致這一種"},{"start":4158.223,"end":4183.364,"text":"他們平時就晉升無門所以變成他們也難以禁用就是說新進的公務人員也難以禁用因為你上面的沒有動中下階層沒辦法升那新進人員更不用說啦那這種大量的資位制人員不管是公路局高工局或航港局啊他們平均年資都超過20年那"},{"start":4185.322,"end":4211.772,"text":"目前相關人員的數量跟連資情況部長你 次長你清楚嗎簡單說明一下我想相關的人數大概就如剛才委員就如簡報這裡所說明的大概公路局這裡頭是416人高工局大概57人然後航港局大概有108人其實委員剛才特別提到自衛制其實就是希望這幾個機關"},{"start":4213.593,"end":4241.768,"text":"包含了很多重大工程或者是航港的相關的工程也都是一樣都希望他們是久任而且能夠把他們的專業留下來所以自衛制本身是這樣的一個設計所以如果把這樣的自衛制它無法轉任就是剛才委員特別提到的有的是上不去有的是既然你上不去下面就補不來那整個機關裡頭就產生一個斷層的一個現象一個斷層 一個僵化的體制那如果這樣繼續下去可能不利於機關的用人"},{"start":4242.788,"end":4268.663,"text":"中下階層 經驗豐富的人他上不去那新進的更沒有機會那如果像更高階的他其實可以賦予他更重要的責任他其實也可以再上去或者是到其他機關去服務這個是我第二次針對職位制人員的人事制度來提出提案的一個修法是 我們很謝謝委員更早以前其實職位制人員如果"},{"start":4269.403,"end":4287.083,"text":"他沒辦法轉任他只是留任原職就是撐這種原序定植物離職時為止那這所造成的結果就是機關用人必要時候他連調降都沒有辦法"},{"start":4288.896,"end":4310.683,"text":"過去我提出相關的修正它最主要就是說將原本留任原子稱原序定之位之植物至離子時為止修正為將留任原序定之位同序列或較低序列之植物至離子時為止給予用人單位的這種調降的可能"},{"start":4311.443,"end":4314.204,"text":"那這一次在針對自衛制來進行討論就是說如果派控人員已經全面的鬆綁那自衛制人員應該做出相對應的一個調整來 次長說明一下是 我們非常認同這個委員的一個看法跟提案說明"},{"start":4328.308,"end":4350.846,"text":"因為其實就自衛制的同仁來講他其實還是某種程度有經過國家的一個考試所以就權益的保障其實他應該更要受到整個國家的保障或信賴的一個保護所以如果派用已經有做一些調整我覺得自衛制同仁更應該來比照這樣的方式來做處理我是看修法後的這種自衛制人員的晉升雖然獲得開放"},{"start":4353.615,"end":4370.766,"text":"但是仍然還要有相應的考訓的一個制度過去資位制人員他是經過深知考來進行調整未來修法通過之後針對資位制人員的一個調升預計要進行怎樣的一個辦理"},{"start":4372.748,"end":4392.868,"text":"我覺得它現在有一個增資升省所以它會經過一個你要確保這種任用的公平性對 它會經過一個增省然後也會經過一個訓練訓練合格以後才有可能有晉升的一個機會相對應的考訓的一個制度仍然要快速的建立起來這是修法又有一個重要的方向"},{"start":4393.627,"end":4417.303,"text":"是 這我們會來注意 謝謝委員好 謝謝李坤澤委員接下來請陳樹岳委員陳樹岳委員陳樹岳委員沒在來 何欣淳委員何欣淳委員何欣淳委員不在沈發慧委員沈發慧委員沈發慧委員不在接下來我們請最美麗的烏斯亞委員來做詢答這樣對嗎 要聽"},{"start":4423.157,"end":4423.978,"text":"就是要聽這句謝謝最帥氣最專業的教委莊教委 謝謝有請我們次長有請交通部陳次長委員好"},{"start":4440.806,"end":4461.392,"text":"支持國家的交通建設不管是人力或是預算都缺一不可所以我今天會聚焦在今天要修的三個法我支持自衛制的人員鬆綁人事晉升的規定為國家有助於流財攬財但是我也要呼籲總預算未審我們的交通發展是重災戶下一頁"},{"start":4463.533,"end":4479.95,"text":"首先呢在我們努力的打拼之下台灣的交通建設大躍進不只是跨時代的規劃更是世界級的一個提升首先淡江大橋在小英總統2017年任內來推動"},{"start":4483.033,"end":4498.571,"text":"賴清德擔任行政院長的時候核定這一個真的是創世紀也就是大家說工法非常的困難由普利茲克獎的建築得主Zadar Hadi他所設計的所以呢我們都看到了讓國人驕傲"},{"start":4500.352,"end":4525.428,"text":"這麼困難的工程我們做到了2026年就要5月正式通車而對本席更重要的就是可以紓解淡水的交通藉由淡江大橋的分流不會造成未來我真的很擔心淡北道路快速的一夕之間把大量的交通流量"},{"start":4526.068,"end":4551.628,"text":"来带到北投造成北投的交通瓶颈所以说我期待淡江大桥可以扮演这样重要的一个交通舒缓的分流的一个实质的效果肯定你们也感谢交通部同仁所以我支持你们的人员要松绑下页第二个呢淘机三航下明天北廊厅是不是要正式启用"},{"start":4552.738,"end":4575.264,"text":"明天下午這也是跨世紀我們同樣邀請到普利茲克建築得主英國的Richard Rogers真的是不容易在困難的交通工程我們都克服了困境明天是北郎廳正式啟用第三航廈預計2027年完工目前進度如何正朝這個方向積極地來轉改"},{"start":4579.198,"end":4593.315,"text":"所以說北郎廳八個大型登機門明天啟用可以擴大服務580萬人次一年第三航廈的整體工程呢更可以提升讓淘機的服務人次要升到8200萬我支持"},{"start":4595.758,"end":4624.145,"text":"所以有好表現在人事上給予鬆綁我支持夏業所以今天的三個法比照派用人員鬆綁自衛制人員與官務人員的調任升遷的規定有利於強化人才的輪調跟培育來鼓勵交通部門人員的士氣我都支持也呼籲跨黨派的委員一起來支持所以在人力的鬆綁我們一起來促成夏業"},{"start":4625.225,"end":4643.246,"text":"但是總預算沒有審查這件事情就不是執政黨一黨能夠來左右的真的要懇請在野黨的委員行行好預算就是民生預算沒有顏色"},{"start":4644.247,"end":4659.305,"text":"倒數八天審預算的期限就要到了但是今年是連審都沒有審就像是一個學生要畢業了連第一本課本的第一頁都還沒有翻開"},{"start":4660.646,"end":4677.163,"text":"怎麼會有這樣子的國會呢那交通部是重災戶TPAS的部分75億美丁美當還有交通部的經常性的延續性計畫新增也高達248億我要就教於次長下一頁"},{"start":4678.044,"end":4698.371,"text":"TPAS的部分我們提升了2.0對於公運的常客的回饋甚至今年12月啟用的91條中長程國道客運路線當月搭兩次就可以享回扣這就是提升我們公共運輸的量能鼓勵大家嘛"},{"start":4699.091,"end":4715.568,"text":"但是呢TPAS的預算這樣受到影響Total 364億裡頭是75億受到總預算未審查的影響嘛 對不對 下一頁可不可以清楚的告訴我們受影響最多的是哪一些區域的乘客權益呢"},{"start":4717.436,"end":4730.199,"text":"我想就是委員特別這個畫面上所呈現的就是北北基桃的這個通勤的人數會受到影響最大的影響所以TPAS如果總預算新興計畫的預算2992億裡頭98.2萬通勤族的權益受影響受影響最多的就是北北基桃"},{"start":4740.021,"end":4764.061,"text":"的通勤族高達52.8萬人我們在場有自強委員我們同樣是台北市的立委是不是能夠來為通勤族發聲如果TPAS的預算75億受到影響那台北市恐怕要先用市政府的預算來支應是這樣嗎"},{"start":4765.402,"end":4791.457,"text":"否則你第三應該是第一季之後應該是四月以後就斷吹了嗎相關的預算因為沒有通過他又是屬於新興的一個預算所以這部分的交通部相關的一個補助環大概就沒辦法支應的所以沒有辦法支應的話除非市政府願意來是就是地方政府可能要來做相關的處理所以如果羅志強不支持總預算審查可能要講話買單了"},{"start":4794.321,"end":4814.026,"text":"所以我们希望我们呼吁预算就是民生我呼吁我们各个县市的当然也不止首都圈啦不好意思至少我用我特别看到您进来是因为北北鸡桃在Tplus的通勤族受害的人数是最多的好下一页另外在交通部门"},{"start":4815.066,"end":4828.491,"text":"如果總預算繼續不審查對於經常性的經費當中延續性資本的支出Total也有248億受影響對不對哪些重大的交通建設新增的預算就下不去了"},{"start":4831.904,"end":4844.737,"text":"這裡頭委員特別提到的很多的不管是鐵路尤其是鐵路公路當然也有啦鐵路的桃園鐵路地下化54億新增預算沒有辦法執行花東地區鐵路雙軌電氣化新增28億預算沒有辦法到位嘉義市區鐵路高架化新增20億沒有辦法支用台南市"},{"start":4855.407,"end":4867.402,"text":"的鐵路地下化21億也會受到影響還有包括針對國旅加碼補助Total 35億都會受到影響我這樣的羅列是不是正確"},{"start":4868.439,"end":4883.414,"text":"像委員特別提到的這個觀光的國旅補助確實它是一個是全民嘛對不對它是一個新興的計畫那另外還有的是公路上還有所謂的高頻二快的那也是一個新興的計畫高頻二快也受影響所以從桃園張善政市長要關心了54億如果沒有辦法補貼到位那桃園的交通建設怎麼辦"},{"start":4892.142,"end":4920.394,"text":"花東地區我們的立委們副官及總召門也要關心到鐵路雙軌電企劃新增的預算如果總預算未審沒有辦法到位那花東的市民們他們的權益就會受到影響好最後來淡北道路的衝擊會嚴重影響北投的交通我擔任立委我從議員到立委一路的來監督沒有辦法阻擋得了"},{"start":4921.374,"end":4948.933,"text":"但是我們至少配套要做好我想您過去也到思瑤的辦公室我們討論過無數次好淡北道路已經給了補助下一頁現在新北我們給了59億佔57%中央來協助新北市進行淡北道路我再次講我站在北投區立委的立場我是非常非常的質疑因為配套沒有到位那"},{"start":4951.277,"end":4973.057,"text":"沒辦法我只好想方設法我擋不下淡北道路我只能夠從中央來幫助雙北市政府至少要做好配套至少要做好配套才不會讓淡北道路未來上路之後真的造成北投區交通的噩夢那今天跟你們相關因為公路局也在這"},{"start":4974.438,"end":4990.624,"text":"對於思瑤爭取中央可以出資18億補助新北市興建關渡新橋因為我們認為這是一個能夠來排解淡北道路衝擊大渡路交通的一個方案現在進度如何"},{"start":4994.035,"end":5006.399,"text":"現在正由台北新北市政府在做相關規劃我要跟市長報告您的了解也是我的了解可是你們是交通部的"},{"start":5007.843,"end":5034.491,"text":"長官你們有專業你們有power中央給了59億協助新北蓋淡北道路我拜託配套去盯緊一點侯友宜不要拿了錢騎馬的配套承諾給北投居民的侯友宜市長也好蔣萬安市長也好承諾要改善淡北道路的後續交通配套的說到要做到我們要超前部署"},{"start":5035.371,"end":5050.657,"text":"新北市確實還在評估可行性評估有四個方案評估了N年了這一個關渡新橋誰爭取的不是侯友宜不是蔣萬安是吳思瑤在地的立委中央也願意出錢買單了那麼不要再讓新北繼續慢半拍我們督促督促看他的評估如何好嗎"},{"start":5060.731,"end":5076.195,"text":"好委員的建議我們會積極的責請公路局來加入他們的我請次長跟局長我們也是會後來安排來到本席我們私下來討論這件事情好嗎我們到委員辦公室好謝謝謝謝教委謝謝大家謝謝吳思堯委員接下來請洪孟凱委員洪孟凱委員洪孟凱委員不在來再來召委翁曉琳委員來做詢答"},{"start":5092.805,"end":5103.434,"text":"是 謝謝主席這邊有請陳次長請交通部陳次長待會還請那個群術部的蕭專委來 群術部專委有來了今天是法規師嘛今天問到的你還是機關的代表人問到的如果不是當你回答回去跟你們部裡面長官來做一個說明"},{"start":5123.527,"end":5152.809,"text":"好這個謝謝那麼首先我想請教次長的就是因為本席看到你們這次的提案針對航港航港局的組織法修正高工局組織法修正等等那麼最重要就是說想要把這個所謂的自衛制的人員未來讓他們可以這個轉任到公務人員就是一般的所謂的健檢委制的這個"},{"start":5154.451,"end":5169.845,"text":"軌道那麼但是呢事實上就是你們這次的提案已經有跟其他的部會有進行過相關這個有進行過仔細的溝通討論了嗎因為我看起來全區部基本上是反對你們這麼做的"},{"start":5173.878,"end":5197.39,"text":"對 可以請次長先談是 我想這一個制度上在提案這是提案委員的一個提出來當然我們很支持這是對於交通部尤其是這三個機關的用人是更為彈性那最主要其實在這之前已經有派用人員他已經有類似的一個規定而且也做了一個"},{"start":5198.23,"end":5216.688,"text":"相關的一個鬆綁所以我們認為這樣的一個制度其實那還有一個是自衛的人員那如果在一個機關裡面一個有做處理一個沒做處理其實對整個機關的一個同仁的一個不管是士氣也好或者是相關人員的禁用也好大概都會受到影響"},{"start":5217.349,"end":5233.231,"text":"因為事實上在先前的法規裡面有給他們六年的時間去做轉換讓他們去選擇但是這六年期間裡面看起來交通部也沒有任何的提案你們有主動的說要進行相關的修法還是純粹就是立法委員們自己提的提案"},{"start":5234.202,"end":5262.76,"text":"其實在這個過程裡頭其實同仁都有一直有所建議所以有沒有交通部有主動提案當然到了這個所謂的派用人員就是有關公路人員派用人員的任用的就是公路人員任用法相關修正之後這樣的聲音更大其實我們交通部內部大概各局大概都有所建議我們也都有在研擬相關的一個修法的一個建議"},{"start":5263.52,"end":5271.582,"text":"現在我看起來今天你們的報告書裡面這個法如果說通過的話大概會影響差不多大概590個同仁的權益讓他們可能未來可以就是軌道轉換但是本席更"},{"start":5280.405,"end":5306.96,"text":"在乎的就是全序部的報告書裡面所談的那麼事實上他們對於這樣子的這次的修法並不認同而且非常擔心就是說未來如果說這個條文通過的話可能會造成就是有後此不比的一個情況那麼可不可以請全序部再講一下為什麼你們這次的書面報告裡面你們基本上是不贊同這個法律的修正"},{"start":5309.707,"end":5335.387,"text":"根文報告基本上這三間機關從交通事業機構轉成為行政機關之後歷來考試院的政策對於具有工人任用資格的人是要轉任的轉任為警戒委制那位具任用資格人的話基本上是用原本的適用的資格也就是說他是職位那就是職位任用官務就是官務任用以保障當事人的權益"},{"start":5336.127,"end":5355.08,"text":"那在前次修法的時候呢基本上已經有設定一個過渡期那在這個過渡期間使自衛制的人員可以就是說自行選擇那選定之後呢就不可以再改變那這期間已經保障了那基本上我們部裡面的意見只是承襲就是說考試院的一個相關的一個決定"},{"start":5356.361,"end":5363.883,"text":"我們只是表達說因為內部的人員種類過多之後呢相關的權益呢就會失衡那在管理上會導致一個問題那如果在了解是對所以謝謝這個我想更進一步了解就是說如果說我們這個法通過那未來其他事業單位會不會也會比照也會比照辦理而且他可能會影響到的人員是有多少不知道權稅部這邊有沒有這個相關的"},{"start":5388.729,"end":5400.538,"text":"數據統計跟委員報告最後一個交通事業機構是台鐵台鐵已經轉公司了那未來已經沒有交通事業機構那現在都是已經改成行政機關的體制但是像是經濟部他們之前他們也有類似像這樣事業機構對不對我的意思說如果說之後其他的部會也比較辦理然後鬆綁他們的組織法它的影響層面會不會很廣"},{"start":5410.534,"end":5427.888,"text":"應該是這麼說委員所提的比方說經濟部的機關它以後改制之後如果未具任用資格人將來要選擇這樣子的方式處理的話那就要看相關的組織法規有沒有要做一個設定如果沒有的話那就回到它所授權奠定的辦法去做規範"},{"start":5428.729,"end":5437.23,"text":"所以我本席認為說這一次的修法它其實影響層面是非常廣的是不是為了交通部可能那五百多位同仁讓他們可以從自衛制轉換成為公務員的建委任職它不僅不是只是與交通部有關而且它可能未來會影響到全台灣的其他的部會事業單位可能都會有這樣的做法而且它也可能會提高"},{"start":5458.494,"end":5465.757,"text":"整個的政府的預算那麼更何況就是當時在法規上面已經有給這些人做選擇嘛像譬如說剛剛講的交通的事業單位它是給他6年的時間做選擇那麼既然已經選擇選定了那就不應該要再做任何的改變如果說今天是滋味制上面的人員認為說它無法升等我覺得應該是要去檢討那個滋味制裡面是不是還有可能"},{"start":5487.965,"end":5512.657,"text":"有更合理的一個升遷的制度管道而不是說讓他整個去轉到這個公務人員的健委任職這是本席的看法好 那麼除此之外就說本席因為馬上就放連假了這個今年的因為聖誕就行刑紀念日的假期還有元旦的假期那麼所以就讓本席很擔心就是說不知道現在交通部對於就是"},{"start":5514.398,"end":5525.416,"text":"廉價期間那麼可能國道又會大塞車你們現在目前有什麼樣的因應方案嗎規劃嗎我還記得我在去年的時候光是從台北開到雲林就開了6個半小時"},{"start":5527.438,"end":5547.334,"text":"我想跟委員報告有關即將到來的春節的這樣的一個其實春節完了以後他其實放假四天以後又是這個應該是228的廉價所以像這樣的一個有關廉價輸運的一個規劃其實在上個禮拜也是我本人大概有跟"},{"start":5548.435,"end":5569.973,"text":"屬的相關機關都有探討就是明年延續假期的相關的配套措施高工局因為這次的連假它是比較長的所以它會有一些放假回去的時候它會有一個分流的效果當然不會員的在出山是一個不管是南來北往不管是高速公路也好或是軌道運輸也好"},{"start":5570.313,"end":5597.085,"text":"都是這個最尖峰的一個時間那這一部分呢我們已經責請我們部署機關做相關的一個因應的作為本席希望說你們這次的對於這個放廉價的這個幾個大廉價這個國道的輸運的部分一定要特別的注意要想一個比較更好的方式避免在國道上面大塞車然後呢還有一個問題就是有關於這個行人"},{"start":5598.989,"end":5603.804,"text":"地域的問題那麼我們知道其實現在台灣每年"},{"start":5605.799,"end":5623.697,"text":"因為行人穿越斑馬線而發生的交通事故是逐年的攀高那麼之前欣恩還說台灣是行人地獄可是沒想到我們的政府又說台灣不是行人地獄 這個泰國才是然後又硬是把泰國拉下來墊背但是我認為說這樣子的比喻並不是很好"},{"start":5629.483,"end":5645.072,"text":"那麼重點就是說我們現在都在推廣這個汽機車要禮讓行人的運動那麼也知道現在交通部針對就是汽機車如果說沒有禮讓行人的話又加重罰則可是我們看到更多的情況是很多的汽機車的駕駛人對於我們現在的行人"},{"start":5648.934,"end":5666.967,"text":"走斑馬線 牛步或在裡面拍照然後慢慢的看手機邊滑手機所以這其實也會影響到交通那麼對於這個部分不知道交通部有沒有更積極的做法現在依照交通管理處罰條例第78條的規定行人的違規只罰500塊現在是汽機車駕駛人的違規是罰6000"},{"start":5673.892,"end":5684.007,"text":"這似乎是對於違規的行為的處罰程度是完全不同你們沒有聽到很多的騎機車駕駛人的抱怨嗎"},{"start":5685.095,"end":5705.643,"text":"我想跟委員報告有關行人的一個或者整個應該是講說整體的交通安全我先跟委員一個大致上的輪廓其實經過大家共同縣市政府跟中央大家共同努力其實所有的交通事故是朝著降低的趨勢在發展我們也發現經過大家強力的宣導"},{"start":5708.084,"end":5730.804,"text":"在入口的里让等等的我们也发现在入口发生交通事故的死亡人数是减少的在路段上有很多的是这里头特别提到的行人在穿越马路不依标志标线规定或号字来行走等等的所以有关行人如何确保行人的用路安全的这一部分我想"},{"start":5731.765,"end":5735.527,"text":"也是在我們每一個月的這個盜安記者會裡頭我們大概都對外來說明我們會不會加強這方面的一個宣導好 是我希望次長回去之後可以針對有關於行人違規的部分要再進行檢討因為確實現在我們看到的狀況是很多的這個行人"},{"start":5751.079,"end":5776.091,"text":"他們自己不自律然後在行人道的時候故意慢慢的走或者是說有一些違規的行為那這些話基本上都是值得交通部看看有沒有做更多的宣導或者是說我們修法把罰金再往上面提高是 我想交通安全是要所有用路人來共同維持那這部分我們會來加強宣導那就請你們再回去檢討 謝謝"},{"start":5778.373,"end":5784.896,"text":"謝謝翁曉琳召委 接下來請羅志強委員來做詢答王一川委員主席有請我們陳次長有請交通部陳次長"},{"start":5795.084,"end":5814.49,"text":"委員好市長好這次台北車站台北發生了無差別的暴力攻擊造成了重大傷亡明天就是聖誕節下週就是跨年元旦更是大眾運輸跟各大觀光景點人潮聚集的高峰"},{"start":5815.538,"end":5841.618,"text":"因為交通部他轄管全國各大交通場站包括國道休息區 鐵道 港口 航空站 重要觀光景區等等我想請問次長交通部對於突發公共安全事件的應變以及守護公共運輸以及保障用路人跟旅客安全針對這一次重大的所謂的無差別的暴力攻擊交通部有沒有什麼特別的因應跟精進的作為"},{"start":5842.543,"end":5848.186,"text":"我想跟委員報告一下所有各個運輸場站或者是運具車站等等的其實我們平常就定有相關的因應整體的安全的災害或者是防恐的應變計畫而且在應變計畫裡面也大概都會有相關的演練所以這樣的機制是有的"},{"start":5867.254,"end":5891.888,"text":"但是因為有這樣的一次的一個應該是一個事件發生之後所以我們布里頭鐵道局大概就是第一個因為是很多的軌道廠站所以要求相關的一個軌道廠站不管是台鐵 高鐵或是各地方的捷運系統都要加強相關的一個防恐或人員安全維護的一個作業好"},{"start":5893.929,"end":5918.047,"text":"另外他也會回過頭來去檢討我剛才特別提到的他們有相關的應變的計畫他平常會有災害應變的計畫那也會因應這種防恐也有防恐的計畫他也會去相關的一個檢討那剛才有委員特別提到的聯合應變中心的相關的運作的機制他也會一併來做一個檢討來確保相關的一個用路人的安全"},{"start":5919.815,"end":5946.596,"text":"我想請教一下因為台北車站是全台第一大站它包含高鐵 台鐵 北捷 桃捷四鐵還有四條地下街跟微風廣場每天有50萬人進出交通部請台鐵局在2019年在台北車站東側U1層設置聯合防災中心我想請問次長知道台北車站聯合防災中心的功能是什麼"},{"start":5947.575,"end":5973.137,"text":"我想台北聯合防災應變中心就是剛才委員特別提到因為在那裡頭出入的人員很多相關的機關很多相關聯防機制是怎麼處理的所以他們就有訂定一個特定區的防災應變的一個計畫在那個計畫裡頭就會成立那個中心由那個中心來統籌該地區就是台北特定區的相關維安的一個計畫好"},{"start":5976.339,"end":6003.003,"text":"就本席這邊的資料聯合防災中心在整合台北車站各個單位CCTV監控救災無線電及消防火警訊號等防救災設備他設定所謂的緊急應變標準作業程序他在2019年曾經針對廣告燈箱起火置物櫃行李箱起火無差別暴力攻擊事件未爆彈處置以及毒化物"},{"start":6003.564,"end":6015.079,"text":"等五項情境進行演習那我想請教次長2019年之後聯合防災中心還有沒有曾經針對這種類似的無差別暴力事件來進行演習"},{"start":6018.959,"end":6043.276,"text":"後續如果我可以提供他們演習的一個資料給委員但是我的了解像這樣的一個中心它非常的一個重要所以每一年它都一定會定有一個防災演練的一個計畫甚至在整個不管是交通部也好或整個行政院也好有時候都會指定台北車站做一個演練的一個場所我跟次長說因為我本席這邊"},{"start":6045.337,"end":6071.683,"text":"會問這個問題就是2019年之後我沒有看到資料顯現就是說第一個當然如果有的話資料不給我如果沒有也顯現說今天就你知道2019年做的那個演習就很重要可見就很重要那等於是對於這一次的事件可以做一些預先的防範那請交通部來去確認像這個演習是不是在什麼樣頻率之下應該要進行可以嗎"},{"start":6072.703,"end":6100.015,"text":"我們也來如果有必要檢討它的一個頻率或一個方式也一併做檢討好那這次攻擊事件凶犯是由台北捷運M8入口進入M7連通道他用煙霧彈持刀攻擊民眾在走中山地下街到大同區的旅館那照理說聯合防災中心應該可以在監控螢幕上及時發現凶犯的犯案狀況立即因應那這一次有發生什麼實際的作用"},{"start":6102.54,"end":6127.604,"text":"我想跟委員報告一下它這裡頭我手頭上的一個資料聯合防災應變中心大概在當天的下午5點27分就接獲北捷的通報民眾有在M7的這個放置疑似的煙霧彈其實它就依照相關的程序立即啟動二級的緊急應變機制在7點28分就會通知了"},{"start":6131.025,"end":6153.472,"text":"四鐵四接一微風也就是有九個單位進駐的單位讓他們能夠立即知道這件事情然後立即採取相關的一個應變的機制然後在55分的時候他就因為他聯合應變中心他要有一個指揮官他指揮官就進駐了我有看到一個在台北車站內工作的民眾他有在吹哨留言給陳士凱部長"},{"start":6156.294,"end":6179.945,"text":"他說過去聯合防災中心常常在發布火警訊息之後又發布以上訊息為誤報的全戰廣播那這一次的攻擊事件聯合防災中心卻沒有發布火警訊息雖然北捷有廣播了一次說M1出口有民眾施放燃燒物但也沒有進一步警示戰內民眾的危險性那還有很多人認為是過去的誤報"},{"start":6181.346,"end":6208.135,"text":"這位民眾說防災中心的螢幕也沒有出現任何的功能定格在請往出口移動他說他不想指責聯合防災中心慢半拍但是希望災害發生時我們能夠確保他持續提供正確的資訊給站內工作者市長我想請教你這位在台北車站工作民眾的建議有沒有道理那聯合防災中心的應變有沒有需要檢討的地方"},{"start":6209.261,"end":6235.441,"text":"跟委員報告有關這一次的事件之後其實我們第一時間鐵道局就開始要求台鐵因為剛才特別提到它有一個聯合應變的計畫那個計畫是不是要做檢討當然這一部分還有計畫執行裡頭一定有一個通知然後如果讓訊息做一個傳播這一部分是不是在這一次不夠落實我想都會納為這次檢討的一個範圍"},{"start":6239.324,"end":6258.92,"text":"麻煩那個次長因為事實上災害發生像你們我覺得鄭民眾講得很好如果過去你的警報不夠精確經常誤報的話就產生攔來的效應事實上這次警報反而沒有說事實發揮功能這是對大家造成影響我也跟次長分享"},{"start":6260.157,"end":6282.347,"text":"剛好M8出口到中山地下街因為我平常有時候會有走路一萬步的習慣所以有時候中午我就會到台北市站吃個飯走路過去然後再走中山地下街走一小段就是從M8出口到中山地下街所以我非常能夠體會就是說民眾在走的過程當中那種不安全感"},{"start":6282.967,"end":6311.446,"text":"就是這個事件發生之後很多人都覺得自己暴露在一個重大風險當中所以我希望各個政府機關能夠精進相關的作為因為像這樣的一個所謂的無差別暴力攻擊它奪走不只是許多人的生命也破壞很多家庭的幸福那也剝奪了今天我們講用路人他在路上行走的一個安全這個拜託相關部門尤其交通部門能夠多加的一個檢討跟改進"},{"start":6313.414,"end":6338.11,"text":"謝謝委員這部分我們會來做一個通盤的一個檢討好謝謝好謝謝 謝謝委員好謝謝羅志強委員接下來請魯明哲委員魯明哲委員不在魯明哲委員現在請魯明哲委員好魯明哲委員不在我們下一位請蔡其昌委員蔡其昌委員"},{"start":6339.859,"end":6343.061,"text":"蔡奇昌委員不在 下一位我們請莊瑞雄委員謝謝主席 有請我們交通部陳彥博城次長還有我們公路局林福山林局長"},{"start":6362.324,"end":6385.759,"text":"次長跟局長我來請教我針對於整個觀光旺季跟大型賽事如何來共存這件事情我想來跟兩位來就教就是花蓮跟台東歷經去年的地震跟風災水患我相信觀光產業受到很大的一個重創"},{"start":6387.64,"end":6400.586,"text":"我們交通部這個地方也對於花東整個觀光如何去做一個振興也花了不少的一個心力那在立法院裡面不分黨派也不斷要求我們行政院投入資源來讓花東儘快來做一個復甦"},{"start":6403.627,"end":6420.998,"text":"本席在過去也多次的主張就是整個運動的觀光運動的觀光帶動地方的經濟火車的之一譬如說透過大型的路跑或自行車賽事的一個辦理帶來選手家屬或者運動賽事的追星組的一個消費的經濟我想請教的就是說"},{"start":6424.38,"end":6451.398,"text":"這個觀光旺季跟大型賽事共存的問題在今年九月有一個自由車協會原定在九月底舉辦跨越花東的一個自由車的一個賽事但是最後就因為我們公路局內部的路權審核的問題整個賽事就停辦了這就凸顯了我們目前路權管理上似乎還缺乏一套更科學跟一致的一個標準也就是說大家都怕人買"},{"start":6453.76,"end":6458.103,"text":"怕說廉價的時候,賺下去之後,地方造成民怨、塞車,大家就幹掉了。到最後呢,停辦了以後,我是覺得非常的一個可惜。那我想請教的就是說,你行政流程,你們有沒有看到行政院人事總署,在今年5到6月的時候就已經公告了。"},{"start":6476.798,"end":6497.404,"text":"公告了新版的行事曆對一天報價對一天廉價這個早都已經確定了那我們主辦單位其實人家在八月初九月要辦八月來之後協調如果說我們自己的公路局的分局在當時會議中能夠明確明確是告知說廉價期間我都可以"},{"start":6498.72,"end":6522.179,"text":"你如果憤怯地說廉價我都不愛都不愛這樣主辦單位還有應變的一個空間可是你等到九月活動當月要被告知說因為廉價的關係還要我賣不賺錢對於一場國家級跟有很多國手來參與的一個賽事來講你剩下這麼短的一個時間實在是幾乎沒有延期或調整的一個空間這影響到的是什麼"},{"start":6524.08,"end":6538.408,"text":"該報名的報名了啦 該訂房的也訂房了啦那你這個通通都早就辦好了那我們這種突襲式的把它否決掉的話你不僅去影響到選手的權益啊也損及到我們推動運動觀光的一個誠意啊那對他來講"},{"start":6540.869,"end":6564.853,"text":"这次长你就很清楚了对次长来讲的话对旅宿业者来讲的话是二次的一个伤害原来的一个房间就要空出来没有新客人去做一个地补的话那未来我们是不是有办法来更主动更提早的预警让我们在准备程序上的一个保护现在的一个保护避免类似的情况来做发生简单来做一个回应好不好"},{"start":6566.651,"end":6587.566,"text":"跟委員報告就是講到這個案子的一個部分的話基本上大概前置程序大家有一點這個誤解因為第一個部分的話就是說入權申請我們有一個入權申請的一個規定那我想這個案子所衍生出來的一個部分的話我們後續也請我們各分局去做一個檢討"},{"start":6588.587,"end":6616.506,"text":"然後也很明確跟各個所在地的這些相關體育協會有關於連續假期辦賽事這個部分的話我們這個就是很明確說明這些主要幹道都是輸運的這個部分的話在連續假期的過程當中原則上我們是不提供這個路線的我想把這樣子的一個訊息明確化之後那未來大家就比較不容易產生這個誤解"},{"start":6619.227,"end":6646.956,"text":"2026年剩下六天要跨年跨新一個年度了你去看我這我這手機一把它打開以後啊2020年有九大連假啦不關喜勞動節端午節中秋節光復節行縣紀念日這些都連假的那如果像我們今年這樣的處理的一個方式的話這個對地方衝擊會很大啦我也知道說溝通很重要但是你觀光旺季跟大型賽事你如何去做一個共存的問題"},{"start":6648.191,"end":6665.402,"text":"我們要把它否決掉就很簡單 怕人嫖我就說不要住你就好了但這個就可惜了你去看看 你去看日本你去看新加坡你看日本沖繩環自行車賽它也是秋天旅遊忘記去辦的他們的路也比我們大一點"},{"start":6666.656,"end":6681.375,"text":"人家判明有辦法做到啊比如說他算準了車隊幾分道車隊來了裁縫路車隊一過馬上放行對交通的影響他就把它壓縮到最小我們現在不是我們現在怕麻煩怕他車乾脆說全部都不準"},{"start":6682.342,"end":6701.537,"text":"這不好另外你去看新加坡你去看倫敦他們嚴格的去執行路段的一個管理那主辦單位承諾幾點幾分將道路歸還給城市選手在規定時間沒有完賽的話必須要搭上收容車確保道路準時開放給一般的民眾回頭過來看我們自己"},{"start":6702.625,"end":6724.685,"text":"可惜啦 由於對發動這樣 你這樣不行啦新加坡 日本 沖繩 你如果去過去 找時間你自己去走走看看人家就是這樣搬啊 人家做得到 我們如果做不夠 路就沒必要我們比較大條啊最輕鬆的方式就是我們去把它禁止 不能只有禁止啦高通柏林部到要下海 運動觀光 振興地方 市長不是嗎 20秒給你"},{"start":6732.176,"end":6755.293,"text":"因為還是光光我們要兼顧但是這幾個案子其實如何兼顧這個我們再來想想看因為他剛才特別提到輸運就是輸運的尖峰的路段是在哪裡可能會影響除此之外是不是可以在連續的假期如何配合來辦理等等這個我們再來想想看"},{"start":6756.053,"end":6775.001,"text":"我也知道說準備好之後大家我也知道公路局要顧安全啦警察跟公務段的同仁都很辛苦啦大家又扛責任 這我們都懂啦但是如何用比較科學化的還有去管理的一個方式來做一個兼顧啦 好不好最後我要請教一個問題就是說我給你看一下 來 你看你這個這你知道嗎"},{"start":6781.482,"end":6789.209,"text":"這個隔熱紙的這個幾%你知道嗎 黑色色的這個給你看幾%10% 這個10%這個幾% 比較清楚了喔這個20%越來越清楚了 怎麼煙光濕了 這個幾%30%這個幾%50% 越來越清楚了嘛"},{"start":6810.151,"end":6825.239,"text":"我真的有做功課這幾%70%我的意思就是說我們現在很多的業者我們要修法就是說整個隔熱紙的透光度跟安全的一個問題"},{"start":6828.241,"end":6842.836,"text":"為了隱私或者為了怕熱民眾很多人就去加裝這個隔熱紙那重點就是說我們很擔心的就是整個交通的一個安全我看去年發生在台中台中這樣的一個案例"},{"start":6844.396,"end":6848.318,"text":"台中港計程車墜海的一個事件就是說夜間大雨低能見度搞不定造成車內四個人死亡調查的結果就是擋風玻璃隔熱時可見透光率只有47.5"},{"start":6859.443,"end":6886.883,"text":"那我們交通部這個地方我們也看到這樣的一個問題但是隔日子這樣的一個漏洞我們是從2026年起才要針對新車來入法來做一個納管來做一個納管但是我比較擔心的就是說五檔不可以檢查一件而已你2026年以後新法上路日出可是這個可能看起來你們也不會去溯及回溯嘛"},{"start":6888.243,"end":6891.245,"text":"也不會回溯啊你像這樣這個美意啊你說前面的不回溯好那我們也告訴民眾說你盡量不要打到黑色色對你的安全真的是很危險的宣導我們要做啦但是新法上路以後啊你這段時間你如果沒有提出一個行政措施比較強力去做一個選擇"},{"start":6909.776,"end":6913.198,"text":"我也有些人像現在有些人賣新車就跟你說了快賭 賭五十十或是我就鹹車鹹水了鹹水 我怎麼開始來賭你以後要怎麼處理"},{"start":6925.89,"end":6949.978,"text":"跟委員報告就是說在這個今年6月30號這個公務局那個指引出來之後那確實我們了解有一些地區性的經銷商有這樣的部分但是在同時我們各區建立所我請我們各區建立所同時拜訪在地的經銷商去跟他們講這樣的觀念所以現行各廠牌的經銷商基本上大概都配合交通部的一個這個政策"},{"start":6950.698,"end":6955.762,"text":"在其實現行法規還沒有強制實施之前在這個因為很多新車都是透過業帶這樣子幫忙裝那他們在競銷體系裡面就是透過這個業帶都這個提供給民眾說以後前檔應該要裝70然後提供合格就是說目前有這樣子產品讓他們來做安裝我聽你的詢問我就知道你也已經發現到這樣的一個問題"},{"start":6975.296,"end":6979.74,"text":"那既然發現問題以後,我希望我們公路總局這個地方,我們交通部這個地方,政府還是多做一點啦,也是要跟他們說,我這個真的是為了安全,你進來這裡,你不要傻傻的去做你的行銷的一個借口啦,"},{"start":6991.889,"end":6998.995,"text":"加強去給他宣導甚至於你們應該有更多的官方的一個說明啊或者業者的一個教育啊的一個措施出來你也要跟經銷商來做一個合作啊大家做回來啊如果沒有啊我都很擔心你說一般民眾"},{"start":7008.382,"end":7028.243,"text":"我走路我穿得比較好隔熱的一個效果會更好我為了隱私我為什麼要戴好鞋子你剛發布這樣的一個我們修訂這樣的一個法令以後以後你那個整個檢查或者去取締的能量又少就會把這個美意打折"},{"start":7030.488,"end":7042.515,"text":"圖選到的人 你如果不先做這個算命 民怨又起來啦所以這一點我希望我們交通部 我們公共組織有更多的一個作為 好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝莊瑞雄委員接下來我們請圖全級委員"},{"start":7057.162,"end":7083.657,"text":"好 謝謝主席那先請我們高工局我們陳文瑞局長陳局長請是 委員好局長 我想跟你討論一下那我們國道一號休息站啟用三年以來其實也發生多起的死亡車禍那今年年初還發生一件很嚴重造成四死四重傷那針對這一部分"},{"start":7084.577,"end":7111.845,"text":"外界一直質疑說設計不良不知道我們局長針對這部分內容有什麼說明跟委員報告就是說原來的設計我們有去檢核過是符合公路路線的設計規範那不過就是說因為它確實就是說在陽梅休息站因為它剛好在五陽高架的末端就是說我們這個五陽高架在最後下來以後那它大概就是說在那個地方它的線型包括"},{"start":7112.245,"end":7138.99,"text":"平面跟高度坡度都有做一些變化所以我們大概就是說請那個進入到休息站那個要減速的其實有一些的車輛確實是並沒有減速所以我們大概就是說也做過一些這個整個請相關的專家學者運安會有給我們一些建議所以我們大概做了一些修正那目前在12月10號我們已經在這個陽梅休息站的整個的一個線型我們已經修正完畢了"},{"start":7141.109,"end":7166.187,"text":"對 因為你們現在有去做動線的調整可是現在反而動線調整之後我不知道局長知不知道現在已經造成我們那個路段下校前路那邊整個回堵造成大塞車我有去看跟委員報告因為那個地方其實它剛好就是這一個五陽高架的末端五陽高架就是說高架段是兩個車道然後主線是三個車道"},{"start":7167.368,"end":7194.569,"text":"我們現在高速公路局正在做的這個是楊頭段 楊梅道頭份也是從楊梅休息站是起點所以它目前就是說它其實本來就是從高架的兩車道跟主線的三車道最後要併入主線的三車道所以那個地方本來其實就是會有點塞我們現在因為就是說我們的楊頭段目前已經在進行設計跟發包作業了所以交違的部分要做一些調整"},{"start":7194.989,"end":7212.191,"text":"可是之前當然因為國道1號你們要去解決國道1號現在之前常常發生車禍的問題做一些動線的調整可是你為了解決那個問題做動線調整之後反而造成我們地方這個大賽車沒有別的方法你這個變成"},{"start":7213.833,"end":7238.126,"text":"為了解決一個問題然後造成另外一個問題是跟委員報告我們也有做一些相關的調整因為其實以前大概就是說這個車流的部分大家覺得說就是那一段的車流量特別的高那現在做一些調整的話其實我們大概在中壢的轉接道那個地方其實對於就是說下游的主線跟楊梅這個舞陽高架楊梅那一段"},{"start":7239.266,"end":7265.92,"text":"車流的擁塞的狀況我們會做一個資訊的發佈也就是說讓民眾知道說它從中壢轉接道到底是要走平面的三個車道還是高架的兩個車道比較快另外也跟委員報告我們已經有做一些開放路間的這一個時段有提早開放因為它的尖峰的時段其實它擁塞就是稍微有提早所以我們把這一個譬如說陽梅休息站到湖口"},{"start":7267.021,"end":7285.622,"text":"路肩的開放時段從早上7點提早到6點目前的擁塞的狀況其實委員有提到是譬如說我們剛開始動線調整的時候它的擁塞長度比較長最近已經在縮了已經有在縮了這一個我們會持續觀察如果說能夠再做一些改善的我們會再做改善"},{"start":7285.922,"end":7307.895,"text":"我是建議我們還是要去做一個會刊不然這個問題其實本來一直都沒有這個嚴重塞車的問題因為你們動線去調整現在地方民眾都怨聲載道所以我覺得我們應該要去做個會刊不然你針對路肩開放只是針對尖峰時段大量車流的時候做一個疏解那畢竟不是一個常態"},{"start":7308.695,"end":7323.583,"text":"是不是應該要有更好的一個解決的方法委員如果辦會堪我們再跟委員做一個現場的一個說明因為有做相關的一個改善目前的擁塞的這個情形有改善因為前面的車流大家可能比較就是說不習慣就是說這個動線的調整"},{"start":7327.144,"end":7349.609,"text":"我們經過一段時間的宣導應該會做一些改變我們希望透過會刊來找一個真正能夠長遠解決的辦法不然你為了解決國道一號休息室案造成我們其他民眾上下班嚴重的困擾是好 這部分我們在會刊來協調解決沒問題 謝謝委員好 謝謝主席好 謝謝圖宣吉委員接下來我們請王宏威委員"},{"start":7358.072,"end":7363.904,"text":"好 謝謝主席我請一下陳次長交通部陳次長"},{"start":7369.774,"end":7392.646,"text":"委員好好 次長早剛才有特別講到有關於就是我看到民進黨的吳思堯委員講到有關於總預算的審查那麼另外就是還有我們這一次就是我們立法院有修正財化法那次長知道我們為什麼要再次的修正財化法嗎"},{"start":7395.935,"end":7419.981,"text":"我想那個裁判的話大概就是市長 我特別要告訴你因為我們自己身為區域的委員我自己也曾經當過多年的台北市議員我深知就是尤其在地方的交通建設非常非常重要我們剛才圖全集委員也特別談到有關於地方的交通問題"},{"start":7421.221,"end":7441.441,"text":"而我們在這一次就是說之前修正財化法之後那麼各縣市尤其都會區的這個補助款特別是這計畫型補助款尤其是捷運的部分受到極大極大的衝擊我相信次長應該心知肚明"},{"start":7442.122,"end":7460.192,"text":"因為在這個第一次的財化法修正之後行政院用一紙公文就直接把非常多的縣市的捷運的補助款一下子大砍特砍比如說我們台北市我們台北市一下子總共砍了650億的捷運補助款它的刪減幅度高達75%"},{"start":7467.936,"end":7491.236,"text":"新北市也是刪減了90億元刪減幅度達到72%台中市最離譜台中市捷運藍線要開工了竟然突然告訴他們由原來合定的42億元的補助款一下子只剩下2億只剩下零頭"},{"start":7493.238,"end":7500.263,"text":"刪減幅度高達96%同樣的高雄不是只有藍營執政縣市高雄的捷運也被刪除了103億元之多幅度也高達75%就是在桃園也是一樣軌道建設也刪減了69億元就是因為我們在整個的這個補助款的部分在"},{"start":7521.741,"end":7544.082,"text":"行政院在完全沒有尊重地方也沒有跟地方討論之下一下子大山特山所以這就是為什麼我們要二次的去修正才化法這個跟地方的建設有極度的相關我們都知道這個尤其這個捷運實際上各個都會區都在發展所以我覺得"},{"start":7545.163,"end":7570.809,"text":"作為一個區域的委員我們沒有辦法看到以我來講我台北市的委員我怎麼能看到一下子一紙公文就把我台北市的捷運的補助款砍掉650億我相信其他縣市也是如此好 那今天我想跟那個市長就教一件事前一陣子發生一個非常悲劇同樣的我們一直希望防堵酒駕"},{"start":7572.009,"end":7580.305,"text":"但是呢 在前一陣子台南發生了一個把是少女 是一個女清潔隊員被酒駕撞死"},{"start":7581.636,"end":7600.994,"text":"酒駕的問題事實上我們從1999年開始修法把酒駕入法之後其實我們一直不停的提高它的刑度也把一些累犯的認定把它做放寬可是你可以看到就在前不久前又有一個女清潔隊員"},{"start":7604.079,"end":7614.025,"text":"被酒駕撞死 真的讓人很難過而我們現在看到的就是取締的酒駕累犯的件數居高不下"},{"start":7615.188,"end":7641.906,"text":"比例也是一直都很高啊還是年年在創新高所以我們到底有沒有窮盡一切的辦法去防毒酒駕特別是防毒這些酒駕的累犯我們在修法 我剛剛講我們現在也把這個酒駕這個致死最高可以判處無期徒刑這刑度其實也拉高了好 那我現在要跟次長再討論一件事情"},{"start":7643.247,"end":7664.219,"text":"過去 這個最早是從我們台北市開始討論就是因為很多的人喝完酒之後心存僥倖那我們現在行度也提高了但是可能對很多人無感他也沒有感受所以在最早是我們台北市開始提出來我記得當時還是何志偉當議員的時候他說這個酒駕就讓他去洗大體"},{"start":7671.225,"end":7698.06,"text":"就讓他去洗大庭讓他看了之後他可以心生畏懼不要再心存僥倖不要再成為酒駕的累犯所以我想市長我想請教一下我們在各縣市有一些縣市其實這看這個檢察官檢察官有些真的就讓他去有的就讓他去看大庭有的讓他去洗大庭"},{"start":7699.685,"end":7726.93,"text":"當然有些這種社會服務勞動我覺得不足以讓他感覺到畏懼他去尊重一個生命讓他知道他如果在這樣子一個心存僥倖然後喝酒有的喝一夜你可能就是撞死撞死一個少女撞死一個家裡負擔所有大大小小老老少少家計的一個父親一個母親都可能"},{"start":7728.143,"end":7756.503,"text":"所以我們怎麼樣能夠讓這個酒駕累犯不要再增加了我們看到這個數字觸目驚心所以市長在這個部分酒駕的部分我們還有沒有可以精進的地方我想跟委員報告有關酒駕這件事情其實是各界都一直很痛心而且認為應該要具體改善酒駕的一個處罰其實剛才委員特別提到其實它分兩塊一個是刑法一個是行政法"},{"start":7757.023,"end":7768.972,"text":"委員特別提到說刑法的部分是不是會太輕等等的這是刑法上但是就行政法上來講的話如果委員可以去看它是所有處罰條例裡頭罰款最高而且是無上限的一個罰款"},{"start":7772.715,"end":7799.277,"text":"至於說累犯的這部分我們在累犯他要重考的時候我們也要經過一定的一個酒駕毒飲防治之後受過相關的訓練然後要裝酒精鎖以後他才可以去重考才可以取得駕照所以有關這樣的我們大概就是窮境行政機關的相關的作為我剛才講說我們就把它變成不要說各縣市或各地檢署不同的他們的方式"},{"start":7802.279,"end":7812.055,"text":"就真的就是讓這些酒駕有些累犯真的就讓他去洗大體讓他感受到他對生命要有一定的尊重我覺得酒駕累犯實在是"},{"start":7815.779,"end":7837.584,"text":"我跟委員報告一下有關刑法的部分當然我們可以跟法務部再來協調請他們看如何來有比較具體而且讓民眾有強烈感受的部分但是有關在酒駕要做道安講習的部分我們其實有些監理機關也是在殯儀館上來舉行的來辦理的放到殯儀館我覺得道安講習其實已經講都講破嘴了"},{"start":7844.765,"end":7857.312,"text":"但是我們三不五時還是會發生這種悲劇只是說我們讓我們這個社會能不能大家有這個意識好不好好 這個我們再繼續來加強好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝王宏威委員接下來我們請鄭振淺委員鄭振淺委員"},{"start":7871.671,"end":7891.562,"text":"鄭正全委員不在我們下一位請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在我們下一位請游皓委員游皓委員游皓委員不在下一位我們請林倩琦委員"},{"start":7901.075,"end":7907.578,"text":"好 謝謝主席我們先請一下交通部次長好 次長 陳次長 請謝謝 本席今天針對有關於海洋的還有高瓴的部分想要跟次長這邊來就教有一些基本的資訊我簡單講一下近幾年我們這個向海致敬的政策在遊艇的船舶停位目前要提升到"},{"start":7929.507,"end":7947.98,"text":"這個要提升到1600席大概成長幅度是4成本席也非常的支持在這個過程當中跟航港局局長這邊也都有一些update也很感謝所以整個中央預算也不少3.27億地方預算大概有一些配合款2億2400萬"},{"start":7953.763,"end":7974.251,"text":"這個期程從2012年到今年我想就目前這個最新的訊息跟次長這邊請教截至去年10月28號我們的船舶停位大概有1225個距離我們今年1600席的政策目標有一些差距我想了解一下因為這個是我們針對網路上的一個訊息"},{"start":7975.211,"end":8002.579,"text":"那不知道說目前我們在1600個這樣的一個今年的目標我們目前的達成率或者是達成的博位目前大概是多少我簡單跟委員報告以後然後詳細的情形再請葉局長來做說明就我手頭上的資料大概今年114年底大概會增加到1437席然後1437然後到了115年大概會增加到1537席"},{"start":8004.825,"end":8030.552,"text":"所以是原本今年要達到一千六嗎還是說什麼時候要達到一千六那個一千六是公委員報告一千六並不是這一期的計畫的目標所以我們到一四到一四三七已經達到原來本期本期就到一五年剛剛次長報告的一五年會到一五三七已經達到原來原來原核定計畫預定設定的目標"},{"start":8033.213,"end":8052.704,"text":"那如果是會達到目標可能你們網站上幫我們更新跟確認一下因為我們看到1600然後看到現在大概1200多那我們有比較關心說對不對那個落差跟或許你們有期程上的一些細節那可以在網站上再做一下確認這樣我們就不用常常要麻煩局長來跟我們確認目前最新的一個訊息"},{"start":8053.504,"end":8057.829,"text":"好那接下來這個先前有跟局長這邊來討論那局長這邊應該也是很正面的這個支持也就是說我們目前在這個全國的專屬博區全國的遊艇的專屬博區目前大概會要提升到24個那"},{"start":8070.683,"end":8089.717,"text":"目前大概有20個可是目前已有的東部是零所以我也有跟局長這邊來討論過那麼次長在東部我們說向海致敬那真正那個洋大概是海的最大的一個量體所以在東部我們靠近太平洋可是靠近太平洋的地方這樣子博位的缺席"},{"start":8090.217,"end":8105.618,"text":"似乎對城鄉的發展還有對原鄉的一個匱乏還是有一點欠缺是不是市長這邊我們在東部專屬博味這邊是不是也可以跟我們一些承諾讓我們在東部真的也可以有這樣一個博味的開發專屬遊艇的這個博味"},{"start":8109.545,"end":8134.257,"text":"我想跟委員報告一下這一部分我們大概因為剛才委員像東部所以像台東縣我們大概有補助他做一些整體的一個規劃然後後續也會補助該府在金樽漁港個別來辦理是不是有可行的一個研究那研究了以後如果可行我們再看後續如何來予以協助"},{"start":8135.836,"end":8158.264,"text":"這個部分是不是可以請你們主動積極的來做一些推動因為整個東部都沒有也是還蠻匱乏的其實在洋區裡面跑的船也是很多其實像我們在南島語族的話很多時候他們來的時候都是在東部所以可能東部這邊我們要更積極的來促進地方政府在專屬博位這邊請你們積極協助好不好"},{"start":8161.386,"end":8180.184,"text":"接下來還是遊艇跟整個基本設施的一個問題因為本席也常常參加船賽親身都感受到遊艇基本設施的匱乏基礎資訊我在這邊不多說了可是我們講高雄好了前一陣子我也在高雄比賽目前有的200多個博位大部"},{"start":8182.566,"end":8201.326,"text":"公有的大概都滿薄私有的大概也接近了七成民營的接近七成可是有一個很大的問題就是柴油柴油的供給沒有辦法在遊艇的停靠處真正的來支援你知道很多包括遊艇或者是非動力的船它在進港出港的時候碼頭這邊都需要柴油"},{"start":8204.75,"end":8232.148,"text":"那柴油的這個加擠站的這個不足大家常常都要進市區去買柴油然後再回來加這個其實是也有一點危險那真的對於我們整個觀光發展也是不足的那目前呢這個柴油沒有然後汽油站的規劃也很匱乏那麼地方政府是有評估在中雲跟柯子寮漁港這邊增設一些條件那不知道你們這個部分是不是可以協助這個柴油的這個補給跟汽油補給站的一個增加"},{"start":8235.611,"end":8256.112,"text":"是 報告委員 針對高雄這邊這個港區因為全國都要處理啦 只是說因為我住在高雄所以會 自己也都在那邊參加比賽所以很直接的會碰觸到這個基本設施不足的這個問題是的 是的 那各位報告 的確如同委員所垂詢的高雄的博味也是現在南部的重點"},{"start":8257.473,"end":8273.26,"text":"我想針對委員這邊提醒的部分我們會盡快的深入去了解現在包括幾個重要的博區在加油的服務上我們怎麼樣能夠滿足遊艇業者還有玩家他們使用的需求"},{"start":8274.52,"end":8292.286,"text":"對 這個很直接的啦因為不是每因為你們有規定在碼頭內一定要用動力嘛那那個油就很重要所以汽油站的這個增設然後柴油的這個設施麻煩你們在做這個基本設施的時候也要考量好的然後另外就是那個盥洗跟這個維修等等的設施也應該考量進去啦"},{"start":8293.146,"end":8314.677,"text":"那在這個國外的大部分這樣的遊艇碼頭或者是博味它其實都會有岸上的這個基礎盥洗的這個設施那在台灣目前基本上都沒有那你不可能要求我們都去向那個很貴很貴的某一些碼頭裡面去成為會員這一般民眾不可能嘛所以這個部分是不是也應該考量進去那這對於未來不僅是在國內或者是國際間"},{"start":8317.859,"end":8333.871,"text":"那它應該是最基本的一個條件這邊先直接做一個建議就是維修還有盥洗的設施這在我們基礎設施上應該做一個處理接下來是個高齡我簡單提一下去年因為三峽發生了這個重大車禍這車禍引起社會關注"},{"start":8337.193,"end":8355.335,"text":"但是後來我們這個政府的一個回應就是那請高齡者現在不要開車然後你們就有一些什麼無障礙公車、幸福巴士、US計程車然後現在還在研議高齡的TPAS但是這些措施都是很好的但是很重要就是說高齡者會選擇自己開車重點是點到點"},{"start":8358.118,"end":8382.18,"text":"還有即時性跟移動的自由度因為我們也漸漸步入高齡了然後如果我沒有辦法達到我上面所講的這些要求或民眾達不到這些要求我想對大家的一個方便性其實還是距離蠻遠的所以是不是你們在考量這個部分說要收回那個駕照我們剛才講的點到點即時性還有移動自由度在你們考量的這幾個政策"},{"start":8384.202,"end":8407.374,"text":"內容當中你們是不是可以把這個細緻的部分再考量進去這個部分我跟委員報告一下有關於就是說如果說這個未來70歲以上自動腳圍駕駛執照那我們會提供這個公共運輸搭乘回饋的那個部分那這個運輸上各種運具都可以使用那委員這邊有提到就是說計程車補助的部分"},{"start":8407.774,"end":8433.801,"text":"我的重點就是點到點還有移動的自由度它畢竟沒有像我們自己開車的那麼自由嘛那你們現在考量這個東西你現在把大家私有的東西收回要大家都做公共交通工具可是呢私有跟公共交通工具中間的一個落差那我剛才指出的這個點到點即時性跟移動自由度那個是不是在你們的政策目標方向也要把它考量進去而不是說發生了一個個案結果你們這個全體"},{"start":8435.101,"end":8452.409,"text":"本來沒有問題的人到最後大家通常要一起來應對你們針對個案所處理的一些手段但是卻失去了我剛才講的對高齡人口來講有一點歧視的沒辦法達到我剛才講的那三個重點這個部分我跟委員報告一下這個高齡換照並不是要禁止高齡者駕車原則上體格 身體機能OK的都可以繼續開車"},{"start":8462.794,"end":8478.071,"text":"那如果說因為本身的這個因素沒辦法開車或是自動繳為這個叫做不想開車的那這個部分我們分都會區還有比較偏向的部分我們大概有兩套這個公共運輸的系統因為在都會區原則上公共運輸比較發達比較沒有問題"},{"start":8479.853,"end":8493.463,"text":"那在偏鄉那個部分的話那我們現在在193個這個鄉鎮然後總共也有495條這個幸福巴士那這個幸福巴士基本上就是可以預約就是一個提供點到點這樣子的一個服務那針對這個部分的話我們會跟各縣市地方政府會再持續來做這個"},{"start":8498.306,"end":8519.917,"text":"對 本席還是要幫偏鄉跟原鄉說幾句話啦我們知道有一些公車路線其實有一些地方大概一天只有一班或者是兩天只有一班有的時候更有勝者會這樣子那未來像這樣子的如果有更多的長者透過公共交通工具要來搭乘的話那我想這個部分尤其在偏鄉跟原鄉請你們多做一些考量好不好就我講那三個點好"},{"start":8522.338,"end":8534.864,"text":"謝謝最後一個很簡單應該是高速公路局這是一個個案很小的事情但是我想說這邊也跟你們請命本席都會去參加一些運動的活動上一次到南邊我們這樣講好了你們有一個"},{"start":8540.346,"end":8568.08,"text":"鐵人你們常常會用到國道我想各地方政府有一些山鐵或者是跑步他會用到國道是不是可以麻煩你們要封路的時候你們可不可以在前面找一點的地方讓大家知道說接下來下一個交流道就是要封路了要不然你們一封好幾個一直封我看那天有好多的本行因為也是被封道了後面的那些沒有住在當地他要去比賽的人他被你們這樣一封他會趕不上那個比賽"},{"start":8568.82,"end":8586.39,"text":"所以這邊請命一下是不是碰到這樣的情形除了我相信在網路上你們會有公告那但是呢不是每個人都是參賽者或者是不是每個參賽者都有注意到這個部分所以當我們開到要交流到你直接封下來然後一封後面全部都封大家沒有地方跑就是那個"},{"start":8587.19,"end":8601.342,"text":"可能指路的能量也不是大家都做得起來所以是不是請你們這邊在高工局封路的時候做一些考量看怎麼樣讓大家能夠及時的到達賽場然後也不會造成太多的困擾好不好好 謝謝"},{"start":8605.748,"end":8608.469,"text":"好 謝謝林倩琦委員的詢答接下來這剩剛剛我們司法跟交通聯席的全部都是暖身而已啦現在重量級的壓軸來 蔡議員委員來做詢答"},{"start":8631.721,"end":8638.607,"text":"好 感謝教委那我們是不是有請我們交通部陳次長請交通部陳次長"},{"start":8643.114,"end":8648.718,"text":"市長 想說用這個機會跟你討論一下現在就是交通部有一個北迴之巔的計畫那這個計畫當然就是針對北迴歸線北迴歸線整個觀光的一個軸帶"},{"start":8661.846,"end":8676.774,"text":"那事實上以這個觀光軸帶來說阿里山就是在我們北回歸線有經過的地方所以未來整個北回之間的一個觀光的一個計畫阿館處會扮演一個很重要的角色你也知道說這次丹納斯颱風再來0728事實上是讓整個大阿里山區的觀光"},{"start":8683.357,"end":8684.158,"text":"後來阿館處有辦了一個省旅行的計畫"},{"start":8700.437,"end":8701.458,"text":"阿里山小火車"},{"start":8721.207,"end":8748.058,"text":"接下來阿貫住有一個很重要的使命因為我們知道林鐵處農業部林鐵處他會在他的阿里山小火車他要開發區間車所以這個區間車以後阿里山火車不用一直在外面跟其他企業一起去阿里山因為那些車次就比較少區間車有可能會在里山或是在鐵甲山直接到阿里山的本基歐山這樣的話比較頻繁地跑"},{"start":8749.959,"end":8767.412,"text":"可以創造說大阿里山區點對點的一個旅遊所以我要跟市長說就是說在發展這樣的一個區間車的時候阿館阿館處應該要積極的配合把這些區間車然後他所帶來的一個效益阿館處應該把它發揮到最大"},{"start":8768.795,"end":8784.417,"text":"這個沒有問題吧是 我想沒有問題我想委員關切的我們會轉達給阿館處請他積極的配合這個林鐵來做相關的一個行銷把它包裝起來讓更多人使用這個曲線車然後在阿里山沿線做相關的觀光旅遊好"},{"start":8784.958,"end":8804.792,"text":"那接下來就是說因為北回支店嘛一百億要推動觀光喔一百億喔四年來執行那我覺得阿館處現在就是有一個使命就是說整個大阿里山區的一個觀光我覺得告示牌的部分就是說那一些跟大家介紹的部分事實上"},{"start":8805.532,"end":8827.366,"text":"外國語言不足所以這也要大家關注講一下為了要拓展國際的觀光路線尤其現在本紀是很多國外的觀光客背包客會來本紀但是他來的時候是基本上他們看到的一些告示還是存在中文 少少的英文"},{"start":8828.146,"end":8840.746,"text":"那我認為如果大阿里山區要來發展這個國際觀光要開拓國際觀光的話至少要仿造日本嘛 四國語言哪四國 中文 英文 日文 韓文"},{"start":8842.458,"end":8862.809,"text":"至少這四國語言的一個告示這是要具備的 好不好好 再來 既然我剛才有說嘛大阿里山區的北圍之巔這100個事實上我們在這一次我看到啦嘉義的部分就只放在阿館處可是嘉義大阿里山區要有大坡 專門水庫喔專門水庫耶 還有像中坡"},{"start":8866.253,"end":8873.633,"text":"這叫做希拉雅風景管理處但是希拉雅風景管理處在北迴之巔計畫看起來都放在台南"},{"start":8875.334,"end":8899.842,"text":"抓這部分沒放在街上喔我們知道整個征溫水庫這個大埔的一個觀光也是很重要啊那都是大理山窟啊都是北回歸線直接經過的地方所以事實上我要跟次長說啦斯拉雅這個風景管理處還是要在北回之巔裡面對於推廣中埔大埔的觀光還是要肩負它的一個任務在"},{"start":8901.342,"end":8918.813,"text":"縱使在北回之間的計畫裡面現在看起來已經沒有在裡面那至少在本預算的部分我也希望交通部要支持他們尤其中埔現在正在做溫泉的開發那溫泉的開發現在也已經跟中友來溝通由中友來協助做專探基本上"},{"start":8919.733,"end":8936.228,"text":"目前看起來都非常的樂觀那如果這一個中埔的溫泉開發完成哇 這不得了耶這會是台灣距離市區最近的一個溫泉的一個風景區它才這樣 由於我們現在我們現在目標的分數這裡去介紹我來說15分之一以下"},{"start":8941.775,"end":8950.347,"text":"去嘉義市所以以後嘉義市的人如果週末要泡溫泉以後嘉義市出發到中坡15分鐘以來九這是真的有夠好的地方所以這部分還是請市長"},{"start":8957.015,"end":8984.798,"text":"今天 但是拜託兩件事一個阿館處 一個斯拉雅風景管理處這兩個寶肥 你都要向他交代不管他有沒有在北回之巔的計畫裡面我們都希望交通部這邊好好的來推廣我們整個大阿里山區的一個觀光好不好好啊 委員報告我的北回之巔當然就是在預算裡頭如果沒有的話其實他們也有相關的公務預算或基金我會來交代他們要一併來做考量"},{"start":8986.47,"end":9002.695,"text":"好 所以市長這要記得喔要給我們大力推動一下好不好整個現在觀光我們整個阿里山湖觀光現在回來了所以現在高中部這記得喔這現在你們在錄的啦稅有好過的啦稅有好過的建設就是趕快趕快趕快做是是是好 謝謝謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":9007.356,"end":9024.691,"text":"好 謝謝蔡議委員覺得準備好準備要做管定完我想這個對於地方尤其是我們交通部發展觀光確實也非常重要我們請次長也謝謝次長這樣的一個很明確的去答覆"},{"start":9026.593,"end":9028.315,"text":"其實你現在自己叫做農業工商大縣後來讓農業科技變觀光大縣這個大家都樂於期待來 我們今天的"},{"start":9043.142,"end":9068.176,"text":"詢答 所有登記委員都已經發言完畢 詢答結束那委員質詢的時候要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關盡速送交個別委員及本聯席會委員林俊憲 游皓 蔡其昌 程樹悅黃建豪 魯明哲所提書面質詢均列入記錄 刊登公報並請相關機關以書面來做答覆"},{"start":9071.838,"end":9097.232,"text":"那現在我們進行討論事項請議事人員一併宣讀討論事項三案的提案條文如果有收到修正動議請一併來做宣讀宣讀以後我們要來主案進行討論那為利於討論我們審查法案的時候就請我們主要列席的機關代表一致主席來正前方首長席的位置就座我們現在請宣讀條文"},{"start":9099.364,"end":9122.794,"text":"請參閱本次聯席會關係文書討論事項第一案交通部航港局組織法第六條第一項序文未修正第一款第二款分別修正如下一以交通事業人員任用條例審定有案之佐計以上限職人員於中華民國一百十八年九月十四日前得准用交通事業人員與交通行政人員相互轉任資格及年資提取辦法"},{"start":9123.694,"end":9127.336,"text":"2.以交通事業人員任用條例審定有案之性質事及人員得依原適用法令規定獲取的高一資位之資格調任本局其他職務第二項第三項分別修正如下"},{"start":9145.586,"end":9164.105,"text":"本法修正實行前置交通事業港務人員身資考試自中華民國117年9月15日以後不再辦理第一項是用原法令規定人員得參加交通事業港務人員身資考試改掉本局其他職務時與中華民國118年9月14日前準用二類人員轉任辦法規定辦理"},{"start":9165.846,"end":9193.511,"text":"第四項第五項未修正第六項修正如下本法實行前原交通部港港局依官務人員人事條例審定有案之限職官務人員於中華民國一百十八年九月十四日前得依原經審定有案之官等職等官稱官階縫及換續公務人員相當官職等縫及至其退休撫恤事項處以公務人員退休自檢撫恤法規定辦理外另得於則依之領之原則下"},{"start":9194.691,"end":9208.849,"text":"一 原適用規定加發退休金及撫恤金自期限界滿地日起繼續適用原法令規定者得調任本局其他職務討論事項第二案交通部高速公路局高速公路局組織法第七條"},{"start":9211.082,"end":9237.643,"text":"第一項 第一款 第二款分別修正如下一 以交通事業人員任用條例審理有案之所及以上限職人員於中華民國一百十三年六月十八日前 得准用交通事業人員與交通行政人員相互轉任資格及年資提取辦法 括弧以下簡稱二列人員轉任辦法 辦理轉任或繼續使用原法令規定 自其限界滿地日期繼續使用原法令規定者得貂任本局及所屬機關其他職務"},{"start":9238.604,"end":9252.905,"text":"二 以交通事業人員任用條例審定有案之限職事蹟人員得依原適用法令規定或依取得高一自衛之資格調任本局及所屬機關其他職務第三款未修正其餘各項同先行條文"},{"start":9254.209,"end":9274.775,"text":"考論事項第三案交通部公路局組織法第七條除第一項第一款及第二款分別修正如下一 以交通事業人員任用條例審定有案之所及以上現職人員於中華民國一百十三年六月十八日前得准用交通事業人員與交通行政人員相互轉任資格及年資提取辦法"},{"start":9275.735,"end":9298.799,"text":"以下簡稱二類人員轉任辦法辦理轉任或繼續使用原法令規定自其現屆滿例日期繼續使用原法令者的貂刃本局及其他及所屬機關購其他職務二 以交通事業人員任用條例審定有案之限職市級人員得依原使用法令規定獲取的高一次位之資格貂刃本局及所屬機關購其他職務其餘各項同現行條文"},{"start":9303.511,"end":9316.101,"text":"繼續宣讀修正動議部分共一件討論事項第二案修正動議一第七條立法說明修正文字檢參閱書面資料提案人李坤澤等三人宣讀完畢"},{"start":9320.473,"end":9338.604,"text":"我們條文及修正動議已經宣讀完畢我們現在來進行討論討論事項第一案就是審查李昆哲委員等19人凝聚的交通部航港局組織法第6條的條文修正草案"},{"start":9339.964,"end":9351.012,"text":"因為今天只一條而已,是不是我們今天省略掉大體討論就直接進入主條來審查我們在場委員大家都同意第六條就是"},{"start":9360.785,"end":9382.203,"text":"我們現在繼續來逐條討論本案的修正案,只有一條而已。第六條的部分,為了一致性,我們也將立法說明中的生簽來修正。那個生,就一個生,全部把它改掉了,都是改成那裡邊那裡。"},{"start":9384.085,"end":9392.447,"text":"耳朵大家看一下它一個聲底下一個圖全部說明裡面我們文字性就把它改的一致那請問各位委員有沒有要發言來表示意見那各位委員就條文的部分有沒有要來做補充提案委員有沒有要補充說明"},{"start":9415.899,"end":9424.003,"text":"如果沒有意見 機關這邊有沒有要補充說明我相信今天都溝通得很完整機關也沒有意見那我們就照案通過我們第六條條文修正草案我們就照案通過"},{"start":9439.496,"end":9452.314,"text":"本案的主條我們都已處理完畢來做以下的宣告本案審查完略拟據審查報告提請院會來公決本案是不是要是否交由黨團來協商"},{"start":9454.775,"end":9458.458,"text":"本案就不需交由党团协商那院会讨论的时候"},{"start":9484.775,"end":9484.935,"text":"本案修正"},{"start":9502.322,"end":9523.023,"text":"是修正案 只有一條那李昆澤委員三人所提的修正案那是不是我們就條文照案通過然後立法說明的修正照委員李昆澤等三人所提修正案通過沒意見的話沒意見我們就通過"},{"start":9526.325,"end":9547.228,"text":"那本案的逐條均已處理完畢來做以下的宣告本案審查完略領據審查報告提醒院會公決那本案是否交由黨團協商那就本案就不須交由黨團協商那院會討論的時候由莊昭及委員瑞雄出席做說明條次引述條文部分文字及法制用語"},{"start":9547.628,"end":9567.912,"text":"致用於授權主席跟議事人員來做整理那討論事項第三案審查委員李昆澤等18年領據交通部公路局組織法第7條條文修正草案那請問在場委員因為條文只有一條我們就省略大提討論直接進入主條審查OK 好OK 可以"},{"start":9578.624,"end":9591.688,"text":"我們審查李昆澤等委員等18人 凝聚的交通部公路局組織法第7條的條文修正案在場委員 我們請翁昭偉來發言"},{"start":9596.789,"end":9625.817,"text":"好 謝謝主席其實本席對於這次交通部所提出的三個法條的修正案我沒有意見但是我還是希望就是說交通部能夠講得更清楚因為在我們之前讀你們的相關條文的時候其實本來就有產生一個誤會認為說這是不是可以准許未來讓滋味制的同仁可以轉任到公務人員的健檢委任制對 那這部分是不是可以請你們再清楚表達應該不是吧"},{"start":9626.637,"end":9643.838,"text":"不是 然後同時呢這未來是等於說仍然是在自衛制的這個制度底下然後讓他們可以去調到不同的單位不同的職位 對就仍然是維持在自衛制裡面所以不會影響到其他公務人員的"},{"start":9645.059,"end":9659.364,"text":"權益 對 我只是想說就是讓大家就是在確認這件事情然後避免以後造成誤會好 那以上我們有好 謝謝翁小玲召委詢問說明的機關說明非常清楚"},{"start":9659.884,"end":9664.771,"text":"那我們第七條就為了一致性將立法說明中的升遷我們全部都把它修正為升遷不要一次一次升 其他一次不一樣就全部均修正為升遷我們就照案通過"},{"start":9680.289,"end":9707.87,"text":"本案主條均已處理完畢 作以下宣告本案審查完畢 擬拒審查報告提請院會公決本案是不是交由黨團協商本案就不需要交由黨團協商院會討論的時候由莊召集委員瑞雄出席說明條次引述條文部分文字及法制用字用語授權主席跟議事人員來做整理"},{"start":9713.147,"end":9734.665,"text":"我在場收到我們審發會委員的質詢我們就列入公報記錄那我們議程所列的事項都已經處理完畢我們本次的會議就到此結束還有聯席還要多加快來 上會 謝謝大家謝謝委員 謝謝委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}