{"error":false,"id":["171535"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":171535,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/171535","日期":"2026-10-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-6-22-4","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第6會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":6,"會次":4,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[22],"委員會代碼:str":["教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第6會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-10-22T09:23:46+08:00","結束時間":"2026-10-22T09:35:55+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:09","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9f0219c4ec2537e63ec19f03ceec354368e9b1c84ded0625c735399645ef1d5678127b5ca753ccb05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"柯志恩","委員發言時間":"09:23:46 - 09:35:55","會議時間":"2026-10-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第6會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部部長鄭英耀、法務部、內政部警政署及衛生福利部列席就「毒品校園篩檢、毒品滲入校園現況及防制、科技查緝策略暨跨部會輔導戒治機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":4.620968749999999,"end":8.654093750000001,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":9.19409375,"end":9.78471875,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":15.910343750000003,"end":15.960968750000003,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":15.960968750000003,"end":16.450343750000002,"speaker_score":0.918},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":16.68659375,"end":63.41346875000001,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":58.165343750000005,"end":58.24971875000001,"speaker_score":0.918},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":60.392843750000004,"end":70.07909375,"speaker_score":0.918},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":64.74659375,"end":65.11784375,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":69.72471875000001,"end":88.57409375,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":86.59971875000001,"end":87.07221875,"speaker_score":0.918},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":87.29159375,"end":87.71346875,"speaker_score":0.918},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":90.00846875,"end":100.16721875,"speaker_score":0.918},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":98.29409375,"end":237.86721875,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":237.86721875,"end":238.37346875000003,"speaker_score":0.918},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":239.13284375,"end":248.43096875,"speaker_score":0.918},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":248.86971875,"end":270.31784375,"speaker_score":0.918},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":265.01909375,"end":290.23034375000003,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":286.61909375,"end":286.83846875,"speaker_score":0.918},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":287.02409375,"end":295.78221875,"speaker_score":0.918},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":291.17534375,"end":294.38159375000004,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":294.71909375,"end":370.58909375,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":371.80409375000005,"end":373.12034375,"speaker_score":0.918},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":373.54221875,"end":374.41971875,"speaker_score":0.918},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":375.63471875000005,"end":376.47846875000005,"speaker_score":0.918},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":378.16596875000005,"end":378.68909375000004,"speaker_score":0.918},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":378.82409375000003,"end":403.49534375,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":404.27159375,"end":425.01096875,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"馮次長成","start":427.05284375,"end":436.09784375000004,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":435.91221875,"end":445.64909375,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"馮次長成","start":445.64909375,"end":457.46159375,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":456.60096875000005,"end":468.39659375,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"馮次長成","start":459.40221875000003,"end":460.14471875000004,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":465.22409375,"end":465.44346875,"speaker_score":0.918},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":467.31659375000004,"end":477.15471875000003,"speaker_score":0.918},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":477.13784375000006,"end":493.06784375,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":493.62471875000006,"end":537.7022187499999,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":537.2297187500001,"end":541.71846875,"speaker_score":0.918},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":541.7859687499999,"end":546.2240937500001,"speaker_score":0.918},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":545.65034375,"end":570.7097187500001,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"馮次長成","start":561.5972187500001,"end":561.7322187500001,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":563.90909375,"end":564.19596875,"speaker_score":0.918},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":565.15784375,"end":565.9172187500001,"speaker_score":0.918},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"馮次長成","start":565.9172187500001,"end":565.9340937500001,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"馮次長成","start":566.7609687500001,"end":566.7947187500001,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":566.7947187500001,"end":568.4822187500001,"speaker_score":0.918},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":568.80284375,"end":579.48471875,"speaker_score":0.918},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":573.74721875,"end":575.31659375,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":579.11346875,"end":686.25284375,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":684.97034375,"end":697.2890937500001,"speaker_score":0.918},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":693.0703437500001,"end":707.63346875,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":706.8234687500001,"end":710.28284375,"speaker_score":0.918},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":708.6459687500001,"end":712.39221875,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":710.56971875,"end":714.1472187500001,"speaker_score":0.918},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":714.1472187500001,"end":714.5522187500001,"speaker_score":0.977},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"柯委員志恩","start":714.9740937500001,"end":725.5715937500001,"speaker_score":0.977}],"whisperx":[{"start":0,"end":9,"text":"好 我們謝謝左委 我們現在請交易部長"},{"start":9,"end":10,"text":"請部長"},{"start":10,"end":16,"text":"委員好"},{"start":16,"end":22,"text":"部長好 我想如果說今天毒品的這個媒體試毒非常重要的話"},{"start":22,"end":27,"text":"那我個人認為說你應該把整個的脈絡交代清楚"},{"start":27,"end":28,"text":"這才是一個重點"},{"start":28,"end":32,"text":"而不應該只擷取像蔣市長的一句話"},{"start":32,"end":33,"text":"你不曉得前因後果"},{"start":33,"end":36,"text":"然後用這句話來質問你到底是不是造謠"},{"start":36,"end":40,"text":"我覺得這才是媒體試毒當中最不應該犯的一個錯誤"},{"start":40,"end":42,"text":"而且呢有關於毒品的問題"},{"start":42,"end":45,"text":"就像你剛剛特別提到的Cover的道德兩難對不對"},{"start":45,"end":47,"text":"你希望透過不同的一個辯證嘛"},{"start":47,"end":48,"text":"這是我們都知道的嘛"},{"start":48,"end":50,"text":"你就是應該把這樣一個方式"},{"start":50,"end":52,"text":"把一個很清楚的脈絡"},{"start":52,"end":56,"text":"然後讓學生透過不同的道德層次來做一個討論"},{"start":56,"end":58,"text":"這點部長你應該也同意吧"},{"start":58,"end":61,"text":"這才是你剛剛說的道德兩難的一個教學方式嘛"},{"start":61,"end":63,"text":"道德澄清法嘛"},{"start":63,"end":68,"text":"我們確實是從這個角度在做許多的一些道德兩難上的一些"},{"start":68,"end":70,"text":"引導學生的事變"},{"start":70,"end":72,"text":"這個在20年來就已經在做這個部分"},{"start":72,"end":74,"text":"我不曉得現在有什麼好變成一個創新的教學"},{"start":74,"end":77,"text":"我們20幾年前就在做這件事情了"},{"start":77,"end":79,"text":"來 我這樣問一下有關於毒品的問題"},{"start":79,"end":82,"text":"那部長你應該當你當校長的時候"},{"start":82,"end":85,"text":"應該參加過學務處所辦的這個春輝專案"},{"start":85,"end":87,"text":"特別是紫金花的系列嘛"},{"start":87,"end":88,"text":"應該有吧"},{"start":88,"end":90,"text":"你覺得效果怎麼樣"},{"start":90,"end":92,"text":"我想在我們整個來看"},{"start":92,"end":94,"text":"就大學生在這一個部分"},{"start":94,"end":98,"text":"他當然這樣的一個許多的研習一定是有"},{"start":98,"end":100,"text":"有 你真的覺得是嗎"},{"start":100,"end":101,"text":"你是來參加的人"},{"start":101,"end":103,"text":"我是學務長 我是執行的人"},{"start":103,"end":105,"text":"教育部給我們錢我們就會來執行"},{"start":105,"end":107,"text":"這個春輝專案呢通常來說的話"},{"start":107,"end":109,"text":"錢會花出去"},{"start":109,"end":111,"text":"但是對學生來說有沒有造成影響"},{"start":111,"end":113,"text":"部長你我都知道"},{"start":113,"end":115,"text":"其實影響是非常非常有限的"},{"start":115,"end":117,"text":"我只是很驚訝你當了部長之後"},{"start":117,"end":119,"text":"還在持續過去"},{"start":119,"end":122,"text":"我們認為只是在宣傳的表層的一個專案"},{"start":122,"end":124,"text":"那我必須要表達一個非常"},{"start":124,"end":126,"text":"教育部也感到非常的無力了"},{"start":126,"end":127,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":127,"end":128,"text":"因為對我們來說"},{"start":128,"end":130,"text":"我們只是站在宣傳的一個角度"},{"start":130,"end":133,"text":"給我們錢我們好好辦出一個創新的活動"},{"start":133,"end":135,"text":"那活動之後的追蹤"},{"start":135,"end":138,"text":"到底學生是不是因為接受了這個春輝專案"},{"start":138,"end":141,"text":"然後呢我們這個吸毒的比例就會降低"},{"start":141,"end":144,"text":"說實在的我們也沒有全拿到這樣的一個數據"},{"start":144,"end":146,"text":"但是我們可以看清楚"},{"start":146,"end":147,"text":"不管你是春輝專案"},{"start":147,"end":149,"text":"或是釣業的一個刪減"},{"start":149,"end":152,"text":"還是你包括這個所謂的校園安全網"},{"start":152,"end":155,"text":"但是呢你會發現整個的攝徒"},{"start":155,"end":158,"text":"可以說是從資料來看是完全失手的"},{"start":158,"end":159,"text":"而且再犯的比例"},{"start":159,"end":161,"text":"你剛剛所提到的social support"},{"start":161,"end":165,"text":"對不起 social support的代表比例還是非常的高"},{"start":165,"end":168,"text":"很顯然的我們的support完全沒有到位"},{"start":168,"end":169,"text":"我們先來看一下這個部分"},{"start":169,"end":171,"text":"我們從數據來講話嘛"},{"start":171,"end":174,"text":"從112年到這個114"},{"start":174,"end":176,"text":"部長我不是講34級毒品"},{"start":176,"end":178,"text":"是非常嚴重的12級毒品"},{"start":178,"end":180,"text":"它的增幅是到440%"},{"start":180,"end":183,"text":"然後呢就像我剛剛所提到的"},{"start":183,"end":186,"text":"再犯的比率還有這個通報率的這個部分呢"},{"start":186,"end":189,"text":"是完全高達的28.9%"},{"start":189,"end":193,"text":"那這個數據呢是官方的數據裡面顯示"},{"start":193,"end":196,"text":"我們教育部在做這些事情的時候"},{"start":196,"end":199,"text":"即使你告訴我說我們的宣傳費用"},{"start":199,"end":201,"text":"我們宣傳的這個達標率"},{"start":201,"end":203,"text":"達到的很高的比率"},{"start":203,"end":205,"text":"但是我們孩子在染毒"},{"start":205,"end":207,"text":"還有毒網已經進入校園"},{"start":207,"end":209,"text":"這是一個不爭的事實"},{"start":209,"end":210,"text":"而且呢更重要的是"},{"start":210,"end":212,"text":"目前我想部長你如果要掌握的話"},{"start":212,"end":215,"text":"可能法務部或相關單位你可以知道"},{"start":215,"end":218,"text":"非常多是以毒養毒的食物鏈啊"},{"start":218,"end":221,"text":"因為我們有很多小蜜蜂充斥在校園當中"},{"start":221,"end":222,"text":"然後你也知道的伊托米亞"},{"start":222,"end":224,"text":"這個煙蛋裡面"},{"start":224,"end":227,"text":"其實讓學生很容易去說上癮"},{"start":227,"end":229,"text":"然後呢他們即使被"},{"start":229,"end":230,"text":"然後我們再往來看"},{"start":230,"end":233,"text":"你看返校之後又被拉回毒品團"},{"start":233,"end":235,"text":"所以這就是28.9%"},{"start":235,"end":237,"text":"所以我們的社交支持在哪裡"},{"start":237,"end":238,"text":"我也不知道"},{"start":238,"end":239,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":239,"end":241,"text":"我想委員本身也是一個"},{"start":241,"end":244,"text":"這個教育的一個專家學者"},{"start":244,"end":246,"text":"我們很清楚任何一個處方"},{"start":246,"end":248,"text":"任何一個教育的一個介入"},{"start":248,"end":252,"text":"要一下子能夠百分之百達到一個這個效果"},{"start":252,"end":254,"text":"我想還要再努力"},{"start":254,"end":256,"text":"我們看到任何一個solution"},{"start":256,"end":259,"text":"如果我們看到的是28.9%"},{"start":259,"end":262,"text":"在校園裡面的青少年兒童的再換力"},{"start":262,"end":265,"text":"我想這是我們必須要努力的空間"},{"start":265,"end":267,"text":"部長我當然知道"},{"start":267,"end":271,"text":"部長我當然知道"},{"start":271,"end":272,"text":"這不是一蹴即成"},{"start":272,"end":275,"text":"但是這件事情我們討論多久了"},{"start":275,"end":277,"text":"不是你當部長的時候就開始"},{"start":277,"end":279,"text":"從2016甚至更早的時候"},{"start":279,"end":280,"text":"對於毒品進入校園"},{"start":280,"end":282,"text":"我們已經給我們的行政單位"},{"start":282,"end":283,"text":"這麼久的時間"},{"start":283,"end":285,"text":"又不是說馬上告訴你要來部分"},{"start":285,"end":286,"text":"我們往下來看"},{"start":286,"end":287,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":287,"end":289,"text":"是一個教育教的觀點"},{"start":289,"end":291,"text":"希望百分之百能夠受拯救"},{"start":291,"end":292,"text":"我沒有說百分之百"},{"start":292,"end":294,"text":"但是我想我們會努力"},{"start":294,"end":296,"text":"對我們就來看看努力的點"},{"start":296,"end":297,"text":"到底方向對不對"},{"start":297,"end":299,"text":"我們每年花很多的錢"},{"start":299,"end":302,"text":"但是質詢率沒有你想像中那麼好"},{"start":302,"end":304,"text":"而且最重要的是"},{"start":304,"end":306,"text":"我們的宣導常常流於刑事"},{"start":306,"end":309,"text":"因為我們毒的問題已經是越來越嚴重了"},{"start":309,"end":310,"text":"所以我在想"},{"start":310,"end":313,"text":"教育部如果只是在宣導的層面"},{"start":313,"end":315,"text":"後面的裡面"},{"start":315,"end":317,"text":"包括法務部警政單位"},{"start":317,"end":318,"text":"是否能夠介入"},{"start":318,"end":320,"text":"來變成一個勾稽的單位"},{"start":320,"end":324,"text":"這是我們今天在這邊來討論的"},{"start":324,"end":325,"text":"那我們目前為止"},{"start":325,"end":326,"text":"我們來看看經費"},{"start":326,"end":329,"text":"預算的執行率縮時在不高"},{"start":329,"end":330,"text":"而且最主要是"},{"start":330,"end":332,"text":"你的保留款是年年掛帳的"},{"start":332,"end":335,"text":"而且你的宣導常常就是KPI"},{"start":335,"end":336,"text":"因為我執行過"},{"start":336,"end":338,"text":"我執行的7年我很清楚"},{"start":338,"end":341,"text":"那時候我們對於新興毒品的及時防禦"},{"start":341,"end":343,"text":"我們目前還是劃上一個問號"},{"start":343,"end":345,"text":"而且每個人都承認"},{"start":345,"end":347,"text":"校園的黑數是很龐大的"},{"start":347,"end":351,"text":"很多時候家長他不願意告訴大家"},{"start":351,"end":352,"text":"萬一被發現的時候"},{"start":352,"end":354,"text":"他就給孩子一個機會"},{"start":354,"end":355,"text":"或者是很多學校"},{"start":355,"end":357,"text":"他也不願意主動提報"},{"start":357,"end":361,"text":"這都是我們所存在的鐵釘釘的事實"},{"start":361,"end":364,"text":"然後學生網路上購買毒品是非常容易"},{"start":364,"end":365,"text":"部長你知不知道"},{"start":365,"end":367,"text":"你知不知道使用或是販賣"},{"start":367,"end":369,"text":"還有電子煙還有這些毒品"},{"start":369,"end":370,"text":"你的罰款是多少"},{"start":370,"end":371,"text":"你知道嗎"},{"start":371,"end":377,"text":"電子煙是1萬到2萬"},{"start":377,"end":379,"text":"使用"},{"start":379,"end":380,"text":"來來我們來看一下"},{"start":380,"end":381,"text":"我們的這個部分"},{"start":381,"end":383,"text":"你覺得這可以有辦法"},{"start":383,"end":384,"text":"來使用電子煙"},{"start":384,"end":386,"text":"薪裁幣2千到1萬"},{"start":386,"end":388,"text":"販賣或展示是20萬到100萬"},{"start":388,"end":389,"text":"好不好"},{"start":389,"end":392,"text":"那你如果說是以2千到1萬來看"},{"start":392,"end":394,"text":"你覺得這對於一般人來說"},{"start":394,"end":396,"text":"會造成一個嚇阻的作用嗎"},{"start":396,"end":398,"text":"然後我可不可以請法務物也上來"},{"start":398,"end":401,"text":"你認為像目前毒品這麼樣的販賣"},{"start":401,"end":402,"text":"這樣的罰則"},{"start":402,"end":404,"text":"有沒有必要來做一些的修正"},{"start":404,"end":406,"text":"我雖然不認為說"},{"start":406,"end":407,"text":"因為我們這個東西"},{"start":407,"end":409,"text":"牽扯到太多的一個範圍"},{"start":409,"end":411,"text":"但是你面對這麼大的一個"},{"start":411,"end":413,"text":"所謂毒品已經入侵到校園"},{"start":413,"end":415,"text":"我們就不止停留在一個宣傳"},{"start":415,"end":417,"text":"跟這樣子讓大家不要"},{"start":417,"end":419,"text":"有這樣子的一個概念"},{"start":419,"end":421,"text":"或是媒體識度的概念"},{"start":421,"end":422,"text":"你認為罰的這個層面"},{"start":422,"end":423,"text":"刑責的部分裡面"},{"start":423,"end":425,"text":"是不是有必要來做修正"},{"start":427,"end":428,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":428,"end":429,"text":"我們在毒品的這一塊"},{"start":429,"end":431,"text":"就是有關於校園的部分"},{"start":431,"end":433,"text":"它其實我們會"},{"start":433,"end":434,"text":"就是跟教育部這邊"},{"start":434,"end":435,"text":"還有服務部這邊"},{"start":435,"end":436,"text":"我們再來做研究"},{"start":436,"end":437,"text":"那你明白告訴我"},{"start":437,"end":440,"text":"你相較於其他國家"},{"start":440,"end":442,"text":"我們的罰則算是輕的"},{"start":442,"end":444,"text":"有沒有討論過要讓罰則"},{"start":444,"end":445,"text":"能夠把它提高"},{"start":445,"end":448,"text":"其實我們目前的罰則的部分"},{"start":448,"end":450,"text":"就是說我們毒品危害防治條例的"},{"start":450,"end":451,"text":"一個規定"},{"start":451,"end":452,"text":"相關的罰則"},{"start":452,"end":454,"text":"我們其實都有做明確的規定"},{"start":454,"end":456,"text":"針對第一級第二級第三級第四級"},{"start":456,"end":457,"text":"然後無論是做職用"},{"start":457,"end":458,"text":"所以你們呢"},{"start":458,"end":460,"text":"你們會再做一個滾動式的修正"},{"start":460,"end":461,"text":"因為跟過去不一樣"},{"start":461,"end":463,"text":"部長我們在我們那個年代"},{"start":463,"end":464,"text":"我們什麼時候聽過Drug"},{"start":464,"end":465,"text":"什麼時候聽過毒品"},{"start":465,"end":466,"text":"在我們現在這個時代裡面"},{"start":466,"end":467,"text":"你看這個毒品"},{"start":467,"end":468,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":468,"end":470,"text":"衛福部現在確實有"},{"start":470,"end":473,"text":"針對委員所關心的使用跟販賣呢"},{"start":473,"end":475,"text":"這裡邊的花環也在提升"},{"start":475,"end":477,"text":"這個從3萬到10萬塊"},{"start":477,"end":480,"text":"我覺得目前來說的話"},{"start":480,"end":482,"text":"學生不怕性命少年事件處理法"},{"start":482,"end":484,"text":"未滿14歲不罰"},{"start":484,"end":486,"text":"而且很多七八九年級的學生"},{"start":486,"end":487,"text":"還沒有到14歲的時候"},{"start":487,"end":488,"text":"完全罰不到"},{"start":488,"end":490,"text":"所以很多人就利用這樣的一個點"},{"start":490,"end":492,"text":"而且還有一個很嚴重的部分"},{"start":492,"end":493,"text":"我們看下一頁"},{"start":493,"end":494,"text":"你看"},{"start":494,"end":496,"text":"施用毒跟環境毒"},{"start":496,"end":499,"text":"很多時候家長吸毒交保之後沒事"},{"start":499,"end":500,"text":"但是呢"},{"start":500,"end":501,"text":"他施用毒品的話"},{"start":501,"end":503,"text":"每兩週要驗尿"},{"start":503,"end":504,"text":"維持三個月"},{"start":504,"end":505,"text":"有時候是六個月"},{"start":505,"end":507,"text":"孩子生在這個地方"},{"start":507,"end":508,"text":"父母親吸毒"},{"start":508,"end":509,"text":"孩子沒有"},{"start":509,"end":510,"text":"可是呢"},{"start":510,"end":513,"text":"他是因為處在環境毒當中"},{"start":513,"end":514,"text":"孩子告訴我"},{"start":514,"end":515,"text":"他進學校"},{"start":515,"end":516,"text":"看到老師就說"},{"start":516,"end":518,"text":"老師我知道你要對我做什麼"},{"start":518,"end":520,"text":"他就是做這種事"},{"start":520,"end":521,"text":"那個沒吸毒"},{"start":521,"end":523,"text":"但是生產在吸毒家庭裡的孩子裡面"},{"start":523,"end":524,"text":"每兩週驗尿"},{"start":524,"end":525,"text":"維持三個月"},{"start":525,"end":526,"text":"有時候六個月"},{"start":526,"end":529,"text":"對孩子來說真的是何等的一個痛苦"},{"start":529,"end":530,"text":"很多老師說"},{"start":530,"end":532,"text":"他每次看到那個孩子也很無辜"},{"start":532,"end":533,"text":"不過說他是一個環境毒"},{"start":533,"end":535,"text":"就你們使用的方法完全一樣"},{"start":535,"end":537,"text":"你不覺得這應該做一些區隔嗎"},{"start":537,"end":538,"text":"各位報告"},{"start":538,"end":541,"text":"我們現在目前在校園裡邊的這個篩檢"},{"start":541,"end":544,"text":"基本上並不是普篩"},{"start":544,"end":545,"text":"而是對有一些"},{"start":545,"end":548,"text":"我現在在講施用毒跟環境毒"},{"start":548,"end":549,"text":"部長看清楚"},{"start":549,"end":550,"text":"我說這個不是普篩"},{"start":550,"end":552,"text":"是對於家長"},{"start":552,"end":554,"text":"兩個家長在吸毒的孩子"},{"start":554,"end":555,"text":"他沒有吸毒"},{"start":555,"end":558,"text":"可是因為他生長在毒的環境當中"},{"start":558,"end":561,"text":"他被要求做這個篩檢的部分"},{"start":561,"end":563,"text":"跟他的施用毒是一模一樣的"},{"start":563,"end":564,"text":"我想"},{"start":564,"end":565,"text":"我只是在說"},{"start":565,"end":566,"text":"感謝"},{"start":566,"end":567,"text":"對於老師跟學生來說"},{"start":567,"end":570,"text":"這些都需要更彈性的做法"},{"start":570,"end":571,"text":"好不好"},{"start":571,"end":574,"text":"有個更細緻讓學生也不會覺得他受到傷害"},{"start":574,"end":575,"text":"當然是"},{"start":575,"end":577,"text":"這就是我們學校教育在"},{"start":577,"end":579,"text":"這個煙毒防治裡邊一個很重要的一個"},{"start":579,"end":582,"text":"所以你就是要去做一些更彈性的改變"},{"start":582,"end":585,"text":"否則兩個老師跟學生對望"},{"start":585,"end":586,"text":"彼此都知道做什麼"},{"start":586,"end":588,"text":"因為他們符合你們這樣的一個"},{"start":588,"end":589,"text":"實施的流程"},{"start":589,"end":590,"text":"這對小孩子來說"},{"start":590,"end":591,"text":"是一個很大的夢魘"},{"start":591,"end":592,"text":"這是我聽到的"},{"start":592,"end":594,"text":"非常多學校裡面所反映出來的"},{"start":594,"end":595,"text":"而且目前來說"},{"start":595,"end":597,"text":"為了恢復人權跟校園安全"},{"start":597,"end":598,"text":"不准搜書包"},{"start":598,"end":599,"text":"不准學生人生"},{"start":599,"end":601,"text":"有些時候躲在廁所裡面吸毒"},{"start":601,"end":604,"text":"很多時候老師真的是是沒有辦法去管"},{"start":604,"end":607,"text":"那這個部分你們又牽涉非常多的一個問題"},{"start":607,"end":608,"text":"所以我只能說"},{"start":608,"end":610,"text":"最後時間的到的話"},{"start":610,"end":611,"text":"我還是要講"},{"start":611,"end":613,"text":"很多時候留給校園裡面"},{"start":613,"end":614,"text":"因為我們要防毒"},{"start":614,"end":615,"text":"所以說"},{"start":615,"end":618,"text":"但是你看目前所停留下來的問題裡面"},{"start":618,"end":621,"text":"透過校安人力流動率很高"},{"start":621,"end":622,"text":"經驗沒有辦法傳承"},{"start":622,"end":624,"text":"而且我們現在所使用的校安人力"},{"start":624,"end":626,"text":"它的行政速度又很多"},{"start":626,"end":628,"text":"即使是有很多退休的一些教官"},{"start":628,"end":631,"text":"但是它本身也很難在這個地方"},{"start":631,"end":633,"text":"能夠施展它的一個專業"},{"start":633,"end":636,"text":"而且你缺乏強制性跟搜查權"},{"start":636,"end":639,"text":"最主要是你跨局處的鍛煉"},{"start":639,"end":642,"text":"學校常常成為孤立無援的守門人"},{"start":642,"end":643,"text":"所以部長你今天站這邊"},{"start":643,"end":644,"text":"我說實在的"},{"start":644,"end":647,"text":"我覺得教育部某種程度也蠻無力的"},{"start":647,"end":648,"text":"因為這個部分"},{"start":648,"end":649,"text":"由教育部來當第一線"},{"start":650,"end":652,"text":"你們又缺乏很大的使用權"},{"start":652,"end":653,"text":"然後呢"},{"start":653,"end":654,"text":"讓這個部分裡面"},{"start":654,"end":656,"text":"我們就必須要在這邊指引你"},{"start":656,"end":657,"text":"這個東西"},{"start":657,"end":659,"text":"我也覺得要提出一個跨部會"},{"start":659,"end":662,"text":"能夠真正來防堵這件事情的方法"},{"start":662,"end":664,"text":"還有很重要的"},{"start":664,"end":665,"text":"部長"},{"start":665,"end":669,"text":"現在這些都是我訪查第一層的老師"},{"start":669,"end":671,"text":"你們給人家叫人家宣導"},{"start":671,"end":673,"text":"很多時候呢"},{"start":673,"end":676,"text":"生教組長都要詢問什麼時候可以拿到錢"},{"start":676,"end":677,"text":"這是有關於毒的部分"},{"start":677,"end":678,"text":"電子煙的部分裡面"},{"start":678,"end":681,"text":"也是很多志工遲遲領不到錢"},{"start":681,"end":683,"text":"都是第一線的聲音"},{"start":683,"end":685,"text":"麻煩部長能夠把流程發放快一點"},{"start":685,"end":689,"text":"我們這個錢事實上都已經銷放到地方"},{"start":689,"end":691,"text":"那我如果還沒有發放"},{"start":691,"end":693,"text":"我們來了解看到底怎麼樣"},{"start":693,"end":694,"text":"那就是地方的問題"},{"start":694,"end":696,"text":"那我們就來問地方政府的問題"},{"start":696,"end":698,"text":"然後剩下的這個部分裡面"},{"start":698,"end":700,"text":"我還是期望能夠好好的盤點"},{"start":700,"end":701,"text":"然後呢"},{"start":701,"end":704,"text":"建立高風險而上的這樣的追蹤機制"},{"start":704,"end":706,"text":"這才是你剛剛說的Social Support"},{"start":706,"end":708,"text":"我們現在其實是從這樣一個方式"},{"start":708,"end":709,"text":"沒有效果嗎"},{"start":709,"end":712,"text":"你的Social Support就是已經完全沒有吧"},{"start":712,"end":713,"text":"我們怎麼樣來提升"},{"start":713,"end":714,"text":"謝謝委員提醒"},{"start":714,"end":715,"text":"好"},{"start":715,"end":716,"text":"這些都是請教育部"},{"start":716,"end":719,"text":"好好跟相關單位跨部回來做一個鏈接"},{"start":719,"end":720,"text":"否則的話"},{"start":720,"end":722,"text":"光是靠教育部只停留在媒體試圖"},{"start":722,"end":723,"text":"跟這個所謂宣傳"},{"start":723,"end":724,"text":"那是沒用的啦"},{"start":724,"end":725,"text":"好不好"},{"start":725,"end":726,"text":"謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}