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有請國安局蔡局長"},{"start":3.24,"end":4.24,"text":"蔡局長請"},{"start":9.200000000000001,"end":10.68,"text":"好 謝謝主席 羅委員早"},{"start":11.4,"end":12.4,"text":"局長早"},{"start":12.4,"end":15.94,"text":"局長之前我們對於所謂中國的這個"},{"start":15.94,"end":17.84,"text":"跨國鎮壓的想像"},{"start":17.84,"end":20.84,"text":"我們之前都想說可能都會是發生在海外"},{"start":20.84,"end":23.12,"text":"所以像之前像我們王毅雙抓尾"},{"start":23.12,"end":24.76,"text":"他出國的時候 我們要跟他講說"},{"start":24.76,"end":26.240000000000002,"text":"你到國外去要小心喔"},{"start":26.240000000000002,"end":28.080000000000002,"text":"不要讓人抓到喔"},{"start":28.08,"end":29.68,"text":"或是沈柏耀委員出國"},{"start":29.68,"end":31.479999999999997,"text":"我們也提醒他說"},{"start":31.479999999999997,"end":33.64,"text":"你要特別注意安全"},{"start":33.64,"end":35.519999999999996,"text":"可是從昨天呢"},{"start":35.519999999999996,"end":39.04,"text":"尤其是昨天這個黃毅豪事件"},{"start":39.04,"end":41.04,"text":"我們發現說其實"},{"start":41.04,"end":44.879999999999995,"text":"中共的跨國鎮壓其實就發生在台灣"},{"start":44.879999999999995,"end":47.92,"text":"包含之前這個石板民夫事件"},{"start":47.92,"end":50.76,"text":"他被攻擊的這事件"},{"start":50.76,"end":52,"text":"其實我們發現"},{"start":52,"end":53.92,"text":"像中國他這個"},{"start":53.92,"end":56.32,"text":"對這個所謂他們"},{"start":56.4,"end":57.72,"text":"認為的所謂"},{"start":57.72,"end":59.04,"text":"台獨人士也好"},{"start":59.04,"end":60.16,"text":"異議人士也好"},{"start":60.16,"end":62.4,"text":"其實他們不管是在台灣境內"},{"start":62.4,"end":63.44,"text":"或是在國外"},{"start":63.44,"end":65.52,"text":"其實他們都採取了這個行動"},{"start":65.52,"end":66.4,"text":"那像之前呢"},{"start":66.4,"end":69.56,"text":"我們蕭美琴副總統在捷克"},{"start":69.56,"end":70.6,"text":"被這個中國呢"},{"start":70.6,"end":73.4,"text":"刻意製造這個假車禍這件事情呢"},{"start":73.4,"end":74.84,"text":"其實我們看得出來"},{"start":74.84,"end":77.24000000000001,"text":"其實我們國內的政治人物也好"},{"start":77.24000000000001,"end":79.12,"text":"或是相關人士"},{"start":79.12,"end":79.8,"text":"藝文界的"},{"start":79.8,"end":82.2,"text":"或是政治評論也好"},{"start":82.2,"end":83.24000000000001,"text":"其實人身不在"},{"start":83.24000000000001,"end":84.6,"text":"不管是在國內國外"},{"start":84.6,"end":87.72,"text":"其實都受到很大的這個威脅"},{"start":87.72,"end":88.83999999999999,"text":"所以我想請教"},{"start":88.83999999999999,"end":90.67999999999999,"text":"當然因為現在選舉也快到了"},{"start":90.67999999999999,"end":92.75999999999999,"text":"我們也很關心就是說"},{"start":92.75999999999999,"end":95.28,"text":"我們政治人物的人身安全"},{"start":95.28,"end":98.16,"text":"然後我們昨天其實也有看到"},{"start":98.16,"end":99.36,"text":"這個台北新北"},{"start":99.36,"end":102.28,"text":"這個台灣新北地方檢察署的"},{"start":102.28,"end":103.75999999999999,"text":"這個新聞稿裡面有提到"},{"start":103.75999999999999,"end":105.6,"text":"就是說像這個黃毅豪事件"},{"start":105.6,"end":107.08,"text":"其實他是"},{"start":107.08,"end":109.56,"text":"他是這個大陸地區人士"},{"start":109.56,"end":112.91999999999999,"text":"涉嫌出資來指使境內的人員呢"},{"start":113.88,"end":115.68,"text":"製造這個假車禍"},{"start":115.68,"end":117.44,"text":"然後希望讓這個黃毅豪"},{"start":117.44,"end":119.96000000000001,"text":"所謂的什麼斷手斷腳之類的"},{"start":119.96000000000001,"end":121.52,"text":"那我想請教一下"},{"start":121.52,"end":124.56,"text":"像這個所謂的大陸地區人士"},{"start":124.56,"end":127.8,"text":"我們有掌握是怎麼樣的一個身分嗎"},{"start":127.8,"end":130.08,"text":"大概跟委員說明一下"},{"start":130.08,"end":131.96,"text":"就第一個委員剛剛提到"},{"start":131.96,"end":133.76,"text":"就是說中國的跨國鎮壓"},{"start":133.76,"end":135.64,"text":"它事實上在台灣"},{"start":135.64,"end":138.32,"text":"在歐美很多國家都不斷的發生"},{"start":138.32,"end":139.32,"text":"所以它已經變成是"},{"start":139.32,"end":141.48000000000002,"text":"我們國安情報機關在進行國際"},{"start":141.51999999999998,"end":144.35999999999999,"text":"情資交流合作的一個重點的議題"},{"start":144.35999999999999,"end":145.76,"text":"因為大家都一樣的關注"},{"start":145.76,"end":148.48,"text":"也同樣的都面臨到相同的問題"},{"start":148.48,"end":150.83999999999997,"text":"那交換資訊跟經驗"},{"start":150.83999999999997,"end":152.32,"text":"還有一些法治的規範"},{"start":152.32,"end":154.72,"text":"怎麼來應處這種所謂跨國鎮壓"},{"start":154.72,"end":158.04,"text":"那這已經侵犯到我們自由民主法治社會的"},{"start":158.04,"end":159.07999999999998,"text":"基本的底線"},{"start":159.07999999999998,"end":161,"text":"這大概是第一點的說明"},{"start":161,"end":163.88,"text":"那第二點的說明是針對這些跨國鎮壓"},{"start":163.88,"end":165.32,"text":"會跨國鎮壓"},{"start":165.32,"end":166.83999999999997,"text":"那以案例來講"},{"start":166.83999999999997,"end":169.39999999999998,"text":"大概都有境外的指示"},{"start":169.39999999999998,"end":171.44,"text":"或是資金的挹注"},{"start":171.48,"end":174.84,"text":"那針對個案的部分我不便做一些細部的說明"},{"start":174.84,"end":176.35999999999999,"text":"但是就這個太陽上來講"},{"start":176.35999999999999,"end":179.07999999999998,"text":"那因為我們國內的情報單位系統"},{"start":179.07999999999998,"end":180.8,"text":"不管情政署或調查局"},{"start":180.8,"end":185.44,"text":"對於國內的這些相關的幫派組織或犯罪分子"},{"start":185.44,"end":187.35999999999999,"text":"都有一些相關的資料"},{"start":187.35999999999999,"end":189.96,"text":"那國安局的角色大概就是在境外的部分"},{"start":189.96,"end":192.07999999999998,"text":"那我們會進行一些資料的比對"},{"start":192.07999999999998,"end":194.6,"text":"來了解到它境外指使的管道"},{"start":194.6,"end":196.24,"text":"還有金流的一個狀況"},{"start":196.24,"end":199.6,"text":"那再透過我剛剛講到調查局或情政署的查查"},{"start":199.64,"end":202.16,"text":"針對相關案官人士來進行約談"},{"start":202.16,"end":203.23999999999998,"text":"來釐清案況"},{"start":203.23999999999998,"end":204.6,"text":"那最近處理案子"},{"start":204.6,"end":209,"text":"大概都以這種方式來釐清相關的事證之後"},{"start":209,"end":212.24,"text":"再請那個檢方來加速整辦"},{"start":212.24,"end":214.48,"text":"所以局長是說"},{"start":214.48,"end":217.51999999999998,"text":"像這個中國對案"},{"start":217.51999999999998,"end":221.12,"text":"他那個大陸所謂涉嫌的這個大陸地區人士"},{"start":221.12,"end":223.4,"text":"我們是有所掌握"},{"start":223.4,"end":225.92,"text":"可是不方便透露是不是"},{"start":225.92,"end":226.24,"text":"對"},{"start":226.24,"end":229.32,"text":"因為怎麼會有隨隨便便一個人想花個四五十萬"},{"start":229.32,"end":232.2,"text":"然後再來到台灣來這邊"},{"start":232.2,"end":235.23999999999998,"text":"攻擊我們這邊的政治人物也好"},{"start":235.23999999999998,"end":236.6,"text":"或是評論員也好"},{"start":236.6,"end":241.51999999999998,"text":"我想這個應該是一個蠻有一個組織的一個"},{"start":241.51999999999998,"end":243.28,"text":"一個系統性的攻擊吧"},{"start":243.28,"end":244.6,"text":"我是這麼認為"},{"start":244.6,"end":245.28,"text":"是"},{"start":245.28,"end":245.64,"text":"對"},{"start":245.64,"end":246.92,"text":"我們的看法也是這樣"},{"start":246.92,"end":247.64,"text":"也就是說"},{"start":247.64,"end":250.56,"text":"可能大家比較關注的都還是在個案的狀況"},{"start":250.56,"end":252.04,"text":"會針對個案進行討論"},{"start":252.04,"end":253.04,"text":"但就管局來講"},{"start":253.04,"end":254.35999999999999,"text":"我們比較在意的"},{"start":254.35999999999999,"end":255.44,"text":"除了個案以外"},{"start":255.44,"end":260.68,"text":"是他背後在地的這些協力的犯罪的網絡跟集團"},{"start":260.68,"end":262.28,"text":"怎麼樣來進行瓦解"},{"start":262.28,"end":263.96,"text":"這才是我們關切的重點"},{"start":263.96,"end":265.96,"text":"所以剛才也在跟警政署長討論"},{"start":265.96,"end":269.44,"text":"因為我們有掌握一些特定的國內的幫派"},{"start":269.44,"end":271.32,"text":"那有參與這一類的活動"},{"start":271.32,"end":274.72,"text":"那怎麼樣在近期之內能夠展開必要的掃蕩"},{"start":274.72,"end":277.72,"text":"達到一個示警跟嚇阻的效果"},{"start":277.72,"end":280.15999999999997,"text":"來遏制這種跨國增壓的活動"},{"start":280.15999999999997,"end":282.88,"text":"那會是我們接下來的主要的重點"},{"start":282.88,"end":285.4,"text":"那再來最後我想請教"},{"start":286.35999999999996,"end":289.08,"text":"沈柏鑣委員最近的聲勢抗仗"},{"start":289.08,"end":293.4,"text":"你們會不會特別擔心他的安全"},{"start":293.4,"end":294.12,"text":"對"},{"start":294.12,"end":295.56,"text":"有沒有加強"},{"start":295.56,"end":296.96,"text":"跟我們說明一下"},{"start":296.96,"end":298.56,"text":"這要分兩個層次來看"},{"start":298.56,"end":300.12,"text":"就國安局的業館來講"},{"start":300.12,"end":302.2,"text":"我們的特遣違案的對象是"},{"start":302.2,"end":303.03999999999996,"text":"國家領導人"},{"start":303.03999999999996,"end":304.08,"text":"還有副總統"},{"start":304.08,"end":305.64,"text":"還有相關的家屬"},{"start":305.64,"end":306.76,"text":"或是選舉期間"},{"start":306.76,"end":308.52,"text":"總統大選期間的總統候選人"},{"start":308.52,"end":309.79999999999995,"text":"這是我們的法律責任"},{"start":309.79999999999995,"end":310.88,"text":"國安局的部分"},{"start":310.88,"end":312.96,"text":"那對於選舉違案的部分"},{"start":312.96,"end":314.71999999999997,"text":"這部分主要是警政署"},{"start":314.76000000000005,"end":317.20000000000005,"text":"但是也跟警政署有討論過"},{"start":317.20000000000005,"end":318.16,"text":"針對這一部分"},{"start":318.16,"end":320.72,"text":"可能也要加強一些相關的部署"},{"start":320.72,"end":322.72,"text":"那有沒有異常的情資進來"},{"start":322.72,"end":323.76000000000005,"text":"對我們這邊要說"},{"start":323.76000000000005,"end":325.16,"text":"異常的情資一定會及時"},{"start":325.16,"end":327.28000000000003,"text":"第一時間來請警政署這邊"},{"start":327.28000000000003,"end":329.64000000000004,"text":"針對特定對象來加強保護"},{"start":329.64000000000004,"end":332.20000000000005,"text":"那有一些比較要注意的選區"},{"start":332.20000000000005,"end":333.44000000000005,"text":"那警政署這邊"},{"start":333.44000000000005,"end":334.24,"text":"我的理解"},{"start":334.24,"end":336.12,"text":"我前一陣子才跟署長有一些討論"},{"start":336.12,"end":338.96000000000004,"text":"他們都有做一些安危規劃跟部署"},{"start":338.96000000000004,"end":342.84000000000003,"text":"是因為現在大選只剩下37天了"},{"start":342.88,"end":345.11999999999995,"text":"所以我們要特別的留意"},{"start":345.11999999999995,"end":347.76,"text":"那當然整個後面選舉的局勢"},{"start":347.76,"end":348.71999999999997,"text":"一直在轉變"},{"start":348.71999999999997,"end":350,"text":"不管是違案也好"},{"start":350,"end":351.28,"text":"或是一些假訊息"},{"start":351.28,"end":352.4,"text":"我想國安單位"},{"start":352.4,"end":354.35999999999996,"text":"應該也要特別來做留意"},{"start":354.35999999999996,"end":355.84,"text":"尤其是7月份開始"},{"start":355.84,"end":359.55999999999995,"text":"我也看到我們的今天的專案報告"},{"start":359.55999999999995,"end":360.79999999999995,"text":"7月份開始"},{"start":360.79999999999995,"end":363,"text":"我們就有一些很異常的訊息"},{"start":363,"end":364.47999999999996,"text":"然後有高達"},{"start":364.47999999999996,"end":368.12,"text":"整個7月份就超過1億多的"},{"start":368.12,"end":371.47999999999996,"text":"類似的攻擊網路事件發生"},{"start":371.52000000000004,"end":373.12,"text":"那當然我們也看到說"},{"start":373.12,"end":375.16,"text":"不單單是這樣的7月份以來"},{"start":375.16,"end":377.32,"text":"我們看到有很多境外的粉專"},{"start":377.32,"end":380.28000000000003,"text":"也是透過一些什麼換皮養皂"},{"start":380.28000000000003,"end":382.52000000000004,"text":"AI改寫跟跨平台的傳播"},{"start":382.52000000000004,"end":383.88,"text":"比如說他們可能會放大"},{"start":383.88,"end":386.28000000000003,"text":"台灣政治人物跟選舉相關的一個訊息"},{"start":386.28000000000003,"end":388.68,"text":"比如說魔毒沈柏楊"},{"start":388.68,"end":391.08000000000004,"text":"或者是粉飾講案等等的這個文章"},{"start":391.08000000000004,"end":392.24,"text":"大量的出現"},{"start":392.24,"end":394.16,"text":"那些人說我們對民主黨很失望"},{"start":394.16,"end":395.40000000000003,"text":"我們下次不投民主黨"},{"start":395.40000000000003,"end":396.24,"text":"沒有投梅瑋的"},{"start":396.24,"end":398.24,"text":"可是你在看他的這個所在地"},{"start":398.28000000000003,"end":401.68,"text":"幾乎都是在外國或是在中國"},{"start":401.68,"end":403.36,"text":"那當然我發現最近"},{"start":403.36,"end":405.2,"text":"我們的一些像Trace平台"},{"start":405.2,"end":408,"text":"或者是說臉書的一些網友"},{"start":408,"end":410.56,"text":"他們開始去做查證"},{"start":410.56,"end":412.2,"text":"當這些訊息出來的時候"},{"start":412.2,"end":416.28000000000003,"text":"大家會去查說他所在地在哪裡"},{"start":416.28000000000003,"end":419.68,"text":"就往往這些很像這種罐頭式的"},{"start":419.68,"end":421.52,"text":"是農場文章出現的時候"},{"start":421.52,"end":423.12,"text":"往往都是在國外"},{"start":423.12,"end":424.40000000000003,"text":"所以我是覺得"},{"start":424.40000000000003,"end":426.08,"text":"當然我之前有一直要求"},{"start":426.08,"end":427.8,"text":"就是國安單位就是說"},{"start":427.8,"end":430.88,"text":"要讓我們的民眾如何去做辨識"},{"start":430.88,"end":432.64,"text":"這個部分非常的重要"},{"start":432.64,"end":434.72,"text":"自我先查證這個部分"},{"start":434.72,"end":436.08,"text":"非常的重要"},{"start":436.08,"end":437.16,"text":"所以那我也發現說"},{"start":437.16,"end":438.40000000000003,"text":"最近確確實實"},{"start":438.40000000000003,"end":440.64,"text":"台灣人在看文章的時候"},{"start":440.64,"end":442.76,"text":"有稍微去留意"},{"start":442.76,"end":444.48,"text":"這個文章是從哪裡出來的"},{"start":444.48,"end":446.40000000000003,"text":"當然我覺得這是一個很好的現象"},{"start":446.40000000000003,"end":449.2,"text":"那當然我覺得我們相關單位"},{"start":449.2,"end":452.72,"text":"也要來跟民眾說明"},{"start":452.72,"end":454.44,"text":"我們要如何去做辨識"},{"start":454.44,"end":455.04,"text":"這個部分"},{"start":455.04,"end":456.6,"text":"我想這個部分還是得要"},{"start":456.8,"end":458.08000000000004,"text":"繼續來做加強"},{"start":458.08000000000004,"end":458.88,"text":"大概幾個部分"},{"start":458.88,"end":459.96000000000004,"text":"第一個部分就是說"},{"start":459.96000000000004,"end":460.76000000000005,"text":"像委員所提到"},{"start":460.76000000000005,"end":463.28000000000003,"text":"現在的正義訊息散布數量非常的龐大"},{"start":463.28000000000003,"end":465.56,"text":"然後異常帳號的活動也非常的頻密"},{"start":465.56,"end":466.68,"text":"所以我們這邊大概"},{"start":466.68,"end":468.8,"text":"能夠處理開始運用AI的工具"},{"start":468.8,"end":470.16,"text":"來針對這些異常帳號"},{"start":470.16,"end":471.52000000000004,"text":"做一些勾連跟查找"},{"start":471.52000000000004,"end":472.68,"text":"這大概第一部分"},{"start":472.68,"end":474.24,"text":"那第二部分是找"},{"start":474.24,"end":476.28000000000003,"text":"稅員找到了他的來源的話"},{"start":476.28000000000003,"end":480.04,"text":"我們會去請行政署這邊協助來查查"},{"start":480.04,"end":483.32000000000005,"text":"請那個平台業者提供他的IP位置"},{"start":483.32000000000005,"end":485.08000000000004,"text":"假如是國內的話有違法的話"},{"start":485.12,"end":486.96,"text":"那就依照國內的法律來偵辦"},{"start":486.96,"end":488.24,"text":"假如是國外的IP的話"},{"start":488.24,"end":489.76,"text":"這部分國安局在今年年初"},{"start":489.76,"end":490.68,"text":"我們建立一個機制"},{"start":490.68,"end":492.24,"text":"九大類的徵訊機制"},{"start":492.24,"end":495.71999999999997,"text":"那我們會對境外的IP進行必要的封鎖"},{"start":495.71999999999997,"end":497.56,"text":"那第三部分是委員所提到的"},{"start":497.56,"end":498.76,"text":"民眾的媒體試讀"},{"start":498.76,"end":499.52,"text":"那這也是為什麼"},{"start":499.52,"end":501.08,"text":"我們透過在立法院的專報"},{"start":501.08,"end":502.91999999999996,"text":"還有跟委員的尋訪的討論"},{"start":502.91999999999996,"end":504.32,"text":"來揭露這樣的一個"},{"start":504.32,"end":508.08,"text":"中共可能相關散布徵訊的行為跟模式"},{"start":508.08,"end":509.47999999999996,"text":"那讓民眾可以更了解到"},{"start":509.47999999999996,"end":510.91999999999996,"text":"可能在閱讀相關訊息"},{"start":510.91999999999996,"end":512.6,"text":"應該要更注意到他的出處來源"},{"start":512.6,"end":515.96,"text":"以及相關部會的一個查證跟說明"},{"start":515.96,"end":516.9200000000001,"text":"OK好謝謝"},{"start":516.9200000000001,"end":517.6,"text":"謝謝主長"},{"start":517.6,"end":518.12,"text":"謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}