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剛剛因為有機密會議"},{"start":20.1,"end":22.8,"text":"所以有一些如果是事實機密的"},{"start":22.8,"end":23.7,"text":"我們已經知道的"},{"start":23.7,"end":26.400000000000002,"text":"那就可以不用在這邊做回覆"},{"start":26.599999999999998,"end":29.2,"text":"那麼我想本席要問的題目"},{"start":29.2,"end":30.5,"text":"跟陸美林委員一樣"},{"start":30.5,"end":33,"text":"就是有關於跨國鎮壓的部分"},{"start":33,"end":35.2,"text":"本席剛剛看到一個最新的訊息"},{"start":35.2,"end":38,"text":"就是風傳媒"},{"start":38,"end":40.9,"text":"他報導了不只是沈柏楊被更兼"},{"start":40.9,"end":43.4,"text":"連這個退休的港警"},{"start":43.4,"end":45.8,"text":"都成立了所謂的影子警網"},{"start":45.8,"end":49,"text":"四度來台鎖定沈柏楊"},{"start":49,"end":52.5,"text":"甚至於認為名單不只沈柏楊一人"},{"start":52.5,"end":54.099999999999994,"text":"本席特別把這個報導"},{"start":54.2,"end":56.5,"text":"先做成了一個網"},{"start":56.5,"end":58.2,"text":"也就是過去我們看港劇"},{"start":58.2,"end":60.5,"text":"什麼星札師兄感覺很正義"},{"start":60.5,"end":62.1,"text":"但是沒有想到現在"},{"start":62.1,"end":64.5,"text":"反而變成是退休的港警"},{"start":64.5,"end":67.1,"text":"成為了來台灣跨境"},{"start":67.1,"end":69.7,"text":"跨國鎮壓的一個幫凶嗎"},{"start":69.7,"end":71.6,"text":"那麼這一群人根據報導"},{"start":71.6,"end":75.7,"text":"他在2024年在英國的一個"},{"start":75.7,"end":79.2,"text":"這個有關於間諜以及這個滋擾事件"},{"start":79.2,"end":81.4,"text":"也有他們的影子存在"},{"start":81.5,"end":83.5,"text":"而這樣的一個所謂"},{"start":83.5,"end":86.2,"text":"姓許水軒的許"},{"start":86.2,"end":88.80000000000001,"text":"許退休港警"},{"start":88.80000000000001,"end":92.60000000000001,"text":"他夥同了中國籍的這個通緝犯"},{"start":92.60000000000001,"end":94.30000000000001,"text":"來到台灣四次"},{"start":94.30000000000001,"end":97.5,"text":"然後這個所謂的鏈結網"},{"start":97.5,"end":102.4,"text":"從由他來委託這位鄭姓的這個"},{"start":102.4,"end":104.5,"text":"鄭姓人員再轉包給這個"},{"start":104.5,"end":107.2,"text":"我想大愛鄭姓社現在非常有名"},{"start":107.2,"end":109.5,"text":"因為他在沈柏楊的這個案子當中"},{"start":109.5,"end":111.2,"text":"他就被起訴了"},{"start":111.2,"end":112.8,"text":"所以我想要請問"},{"start":112.8,"end":115.9,"text":"先問一下內政部跟移民署好了"},{"start":115.9,"end":118.10000000000001,"text":"有沒有注意到這個異常的"},{"start":118.10000000000001,"end":121.9,"text":"所謂現在連中國退休的"},{"start":121.9,"end":124.5,"text":"我不是要講中國還是香港這種"},{"start":124.5,"end":126.8,"text":"所謂影子警網"},{"start":126.8,"end":129,"text":"聽起來以為是要保護人民"},{"start":129,"end":131.5,"text":"結果是串聯台灣的黑幫"},{"start":131.5,"end":133.2,"text":"然後成為滋擾"},{"start":133.2,"end":136.5,"text":"或者是逗和監控台灣人"},{"start":136.5,"end":139.7,"text":"甚至於是我們的國會議員的幫凶嗎"},{"start":139.7,"end":141.7,"text":"像這樣的人員進入"},{"start":141.7,"end":145.5,"text":"有沒有列為你們在接下來"},{"start":145.5,"end":147.89999999999998,"text":"鎖定的這樣的目標當中"},{"start":147.89999999999998,"end":149.29999999999998,"text":"好委員好"},{"start":149.29999999999998,"end":151.79999999999998,"text":"委員剛才所提的我們都注意到了"},{"start":151.79999999999998,"end":153.79999999999998,"text":"而且這案件還在偵查當中"},{"start":153.79999999999998,"end":154.79999999999998,"text":"還在溯源"},{"start":154.79999999999998,"end":157.7,"text":"所以委員所提的這個部分"},{"start":157.7,"end":159.7,"text":"我們仍然還在偵辦當中"},{"start":159.7,"end":161.29999999999998,"text":"所以請委員放心"},{"start":161.29999999999998,"end":163.5,"text":"委員你所提的我們大概都有注意到"},{"start":163.5,"end":164.89999999999998,"text":"不管是境外的"},{"start":164.89999999999998,"end":167.29999999999998,"text":"是不是有沒有他的這一些"},{"start":167.4,"end":170,"text":"之前他的一些相關的背景"},{"start":170,"end":173.3,"text":"或者是配合在地協力者的真性虐者"},{"start":173.3,"end":175.3,"text":"這個全部都是在我們的掌控當中"},{"start":175.3,"end":177,"text":"而且這案件還在溯源偵辦"},{"start":177,"end":179.70000000000002,"text":"也不便在這邊做報告"},{"start":179.70000000000002,"end":182.70000000000002,"text":"所以我們當然是執行者"},{"start":182.70000000000002,"end":184.20000000000002,"text":"我們現在是逮到了"},{"start":184.20000000000002,"end":185.3,"text":"但是最重要還是"},{"start":185.3,"end":187.20000000000002,"text":"幕後的這一些的無影者"},{"start":187.20000000000002,"end":188.5,"text":"或者一些溯源"},{"start":188.5,"end":190.9,"text":"那這些案件我們目前還在偵查當中"},{"start":190.9,"end":191.9,"text":"好沒有關係"},{"start":191.9,"end":193.3,"text":"案件的部分我們不公開"},{"start":193.3,"end":195.9,"text":"但是我想要問蔡局長的就是"},{"start":195.9,"end":197.70000000000002,"text":"所以會感受得到"},{"start":197.70000000000002,"end":201.1,"text":"其實被鎖定的恐怕不只國會議員"},{"start":201.1,"end":205.6,"text":"包括這些所謂的跨國的境外買胸"},{"start":205.6,"end":206.9,"text":"境內施暴"},{"start":206.9,"end":210.9,"text":"已經成為中國影響台灣的選舉"},{"start":210.9,"end":214.9,"text":"甚至於恫嚇台灣人民自由意志的表達"},{"start":214.9,"end":217.8,"text":"他已經變成是一個有系統性的"},{"start":217.8,"end":219.6,"text":"這樣的一個滋擾行為"},{"start":219.6,"end":221.4,"text":"甚至於是恫嚇行徑了嗎"},{"start":221.4,"end":222.5,"text":"因為我們來看"},{"start":222.5,"end":224.20000000000002,"text":"昨天大家都看到了"},{"start":224.2,"end":228,"text":"就是我們的表演工作者黃毅豪"},{"start":228,"end":230,"text":"他的這個案子起訴了"},{"start":230,"end":233.2,"text":"但是再往前推還有石板明夫"},{"start":233.2,"end":236,"text":"以及剛剛我提到的沈柏楊委員的狀況"},{"start":236,"end":239,"text":"所以這樣的所謂境外發包境內執行"},{"start":239,"end":240.5,"text":"大家已經都知道"},{"start":240.5,"end":243,"text":"這樣的一個所謂鬥吼模式"},{"start":243,"end":245.7,"text":"或是滋擾模式是存在的"},{"start":245.7,"end":247.39999999999998,"text":"但是因為時間有限"},{"start":247.39999999999998,"end":248.89999999999998,"text":"我想直接講就是"},{"s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對 謝委員提問"},{"start":289.90000000000003,"end":291.40000000000003,"text":"因為中共跨國鎮壓"},{"start":291.40000000000003,"end":294.40000000000003,"text":"是對我們自由民主法治社會底線的侵犯"},{"start":294.40000000000003,"end":295.90000000000003,"text":"我們在處理上"},{"start":295.90000000000003,"end":297.40000000000003,"text":"一方面除了是個案"},{"start":297.40000000000003,"end":299.8,"text":"去進行一些調查蒐證以外"},{"start":299.8,"end":302.40000000000003,"text":"另外我們很關注的第二個重點"},{"start":302.40000000000003,"end":303.90000000000003,"text":"是在於背後的"},{"start":303.90000000000003,"end":306.40000000000003,"text":"中共的這種協力的網絡"},{"start":306.40000000000003,"end":307.6,"text":"怎麼樣來瓦解它"},{"start":307.6,"end":309.40000000000003,"text":"這才是我們關切的重點"},{"start":309.4,"end":311.7,"text":"也是剛剛委員在詢問的一個"},{"start":311.7,"end":313.09999999999997,"text":"主要的一個重點"},{"start":313.09999999999997,"end":314.09999999999997,"text":"那這個部分"},{"start":314.09999999999997,"end":316.29999999999995,"text":"我們大概在處理過程當中"},{"start":316.29999999999995,"end":318.5,"text":"會針對這些特定的協力者"},{"start":318.5,"end":321.09999999999997,"text":"那以目前來講很多都是幫派"},{"start":321.09999999999997,"end":322.09999999999997,"text":"特定的幫派"},{"start":322.09999999999997,"end":322.9,"text":"那我們都有掌握"},{"start":322.9,"end":324.59999999999997,"text":"那已經有跟警政署討論"},{"start":324.59999999999997,"end":327.7,"text":"我們會啟動必要的一個掃蕩"},{"start":327.7,"end":330.2,"text":"來達到市警跟嚇阻的效果"},{"start":330.2,"end":332.4,"text":"來遏止這種跨境鎮壓的活動"},{"start":332.4,"end":333.29999999999995,"text":"那第三個是"},{"start":333.29999999999995,"end":334.79999999999995,"text":"委員有提到修法的部分"},{"start":334.79999999999995,"end":335.9,"text":"這個我們認為"},{"start":335.9,"end":337.7,"text":"確實是有必要來做一些檢討"},{"start":337.7,"end":339,"text":"那目前能夠用到的法規"},{"start":339,"end":340.7,"text":"大概就是刑法的傷害罪"},{"start":340.7,"end":341.9,"text":"或重傷害未遂"},{"start":341.9,"end":342.9,"text":"或是個資法"},{"start":342.9,"end":344.2,"text":"那或是組織犯罪"},{"start":344.2,"end":346.2,"text":"那怎麼樣有一個比較專責的法律"},{"start":346.2,"end":347.9,"text":"特別目前的反滲透法"},{"start":347.9,"end":350.4,"text":"主要是針對竊選非法集會"},{"start":350.4,"end":352.9,"text":"還有非法的這些關所有稅"},{"start":352.9,"end":354.5,"text":"那怎麼樣來針對跨國鎮壓"},{"start":354.5,"end":356.5,"text":"脅迫的這些行為"},{"start":356.5,"end":358.3,"text":"列入到我們的法律裡面"},{"start":358.3,"end":359.4,"text":"那我們覺得這樣的"},{"start":359.4,"end":360.8,"text":"修法的討論是有必要的"},{"start":360.8,"end":362.2,"text":"那國安局基於"},{"start":362.2,"end":363.3,"text":"健全我們國安法"},{"start":363.3,"end":365,"text":"我們站在支持的立場"},{"start":365,"end":366.1,"text":"好 我們知道"},{"start":366.1,"end":368.9,"text":"比如說像賴清德總統他的"},{"start":369.29999999999995,"end":371.09999999999997,"text":"長子在美國"},{"start":371.09999999999997,"end":373.79999999999995,"text":"那麼就是在被中國的間諜"},{"start":373.79999999999995,"end":375,"text":"更姦之後"},{"start":375,"end":376.9,"text":"那麼美國的FBI是可以用他們"},{"start":376.9,"end":377.9,"text":"現有的法律"},{"start":377.9,"end":379.29999999999995,"text":"把這樣的人扣住"},{"start":379.29999999999995,"end":381.7,"text":"讓他無法離開美國境內"},{"start":381.7,"end":384.4,"text":"但是我剛剛說出來的這個所謂"},{"start":384.4,"end":385.59999999999997,"text":"影子景望"},{"start":385.59999999999997,"end":386.79999999999995,"text":"我們現有的法律"},{"start":386.79999999999995,"end":388.2,"text":"可以對他如果"},{"start":388.2,"end":390.4,"text":"他來監控我們的國會議員"},{"start":390.4,"end":393.79999999999995,"text":"甚至於是傷害我們台灣的藝人"},{"start":393.79999999999995,"end":395.9,"text":"我們有辦法用現有的法律"},{"start":395.9,"end":397.79999999999995,"text":"把他在機場離境之前"},{"start":397.8,"end":400,"text":"把他逮捕甚至於定罪嗎"},{"start":400,"end":401.1,"text":"而且這個罪"},{"start":401.1,"end":403.5,"text":"不是像傷害這種為罪"},{"start":403.5,"end":405.1,"text":"讓他幾個月"},{"start":405.8,"end":407.3,"text":"甚至於一顆法金"},{"start":407.3,"end":408.3,"text":"所以我想問的是"},{"start":408.3,"end":409.6,"text":"我們現有的法律"},{"start":409.6,"end":411.6,"text":"可以像美國像國外這樣嗎"},{"start":411.6,"end":412.8,"text":"因為我們知道"},{"start":412.8,"end":413.8,"text":"國安法"},{"start":413.8,"end":415.5,"text":"包括沈博洋委員以及我在內"},{"start":415.5,"end":417.1,"text":"我們提了非常多的國安法"},{"start":417.1,"end":419.2,"text":"不要說進入程序委員會"},{"start":419.2,"end":419.8,"text":"在"},{"start":420.40000000000003,"end":421.8,"text":"不要說進入內政委員會"},{"start":421.8,"end":422.90000000000003,"text":"在程序委員會"},{"start":422.90000000000003,"end":424.5,"text":"就被卡了幾百次"},{"start":424.5,"end":426.7,"text":"已經卡到民眾都無感了"},{"start":426.7,"end":428.9,"text":"那麼以現在的現行法規"},{"start":428.9,"end":431,"text":"我們有辦法真的保障起"},{"start":431,"end":432.7,"text":"我們人民的安全嗎"},{"start":432.7,"end":435.5,"text":"能夠真的讓這樣的表演藝術工作者"},{"start":435.5,"end":437.5,"text":"能夠講他想講的嗎"},{"start":438.3,"end":438.8,"text":"我"},{"start":438.8,"end":440.2,"text":"我來給大家看一下"},{"start":440.2,"end":442,"text":"這個是黃毅豪剛剛最新的臉書"},{"start":442,"end":443.09999999999997,"text":"他講什麼"},{"start":443.09999999999997,"end":444.2,"text":"他說"},{"start":444.2,"end":445.8,"text":"叫賴清德做事很棒"},{"start":445.8,"end":447,"text":"警方已經抓到人了"},{"start":447,"end":449,"text":"但是檢調也掌握證據了"},{"start":449,"end":450.3,"text":"就是剛剛"},{"start":450.3,"end":451.9,"text":"我們不論是局長"},{"start":451.9,"end":453.3,"text":"或者是署長所講的"},{"start":453.3,"end":454.7,"text":"可是立法委員要立法"},{"start":454.7,"end":455.7,"text":"要協商"},{"start":455.7,"end":456.9,"text":"要審查"},{"start":456.9,"end":458.9,"text":"那我們看到昨天"},{"start":458.9,"end":459.8,"text":"這個"},{"start":459.8,"end":462.4,"text":"民進黨的傅崑琪總召"},{"start":462.4,"end":464.59999999999997,"text":"也漏頁發了一篇文"},{"start":464.59999999999997,"end":466.59999999999997,"text":"希望你們即刻"},{"start":466.59999999999997,"end":467.8,"text":"能夠破案"},{"start":467.8,"end":470.2,"text":"還要召開國安會議"},{"start":470.2,"end":471.3,"text":"那像這樣子"},{"start":471.3,"end":472.9,"text":"他們都把法案"},{"start":472.9,"end":474.9,"text":"就是擋在程序委員會"},{"start":474.9,"end":475.9,"text":"沒有法"},{"start":475.9,"end":477.8,"text":"啊你們是要怎麼破案"},{"start":477.8,"end":480.4,"text":"然後面對這樣的狀況跟壓力"},{"start":480.4,"end":481.9,"text":"你們該如何是好"},{"start":481.9,"end":482.4,"text":"對"},{"start":482.4,"end":484.5,"text":"針對那個國安法制的部分"},{"start":484.6,"end":486.6,"text":"那剛我已經有說明了"},{"start":486.6,"end":488.1,"text":"只要能夠有進一步的修法"},{"start":488.1,"end":489.6,"text":"來強制我們的國安法制"},{"start":489.6,"end":492.4,"text":"我們是抱持樂觀其成跟支持的態度"},{"start":492.4,"end":493.2,"text":"那在這之前"},{"start":493.2,"end":494.2,"text":"大概能夠處理的"},{"start":494.2,"end":496,"text":"就是盡量把相關的法律調完"},{"start":496,"end":498.1,"text":"我剛已經跟委員有說明報告過"},{"start":498.1,"end":499.2,"text":"不管是刑法的部分"},{"start":499.2,"end":499.9,"text":"個資法的部分"},{"start":499.9,"end":501.3,"text":"或組織犯罪的部分"},{"start":501.3,"end":503.3,"text":"組織犯罪的部分是重刑"},{"start":503.3,"end":504.6,"text":"基本都是五年起跳"},{"start":504.6,"end":506.1,"text":"所以以石板的案子來講"},{"start":506.1,"end":507.9,"text":"大概採用的就是這樣的法律"},{"start":507.9,"end":509.2,"text":"那這部分警方在偵辦"},{"start":509.2,"end":510.3,"text":"我們國安局的法制單位"},{"start":510.3,"end":512.8,"text":"也都有討論相關法制工具的運用"},{"start":512.8,"end":514.4,"text":"所以我們還是希望"},{"start":514.4,"end":516.0999999999999,"text":"根本的方法"},{"start":516.0999999999999,"end":518.5999999999999,"text":"還是要有更完整的一個法律的依據"},{"start":518.5999999999999,"end":519.0999999999999,"text":"沒有的話"},{"start":519.0999999999999,"end":522.1999999999999,"text":"我們只能盡量的在現有的法律工具之下"},{"start":522.1999999999999,"end":523.3,"text":"去找到法律要件"},{"start":523.3,"end":527.1999999999999,"text":"來研診 研辦這些跨境鎮壓的活動"},{"start":527.1999999999999,"end":528.5999999999999,"text":"好 因為我必須講"},{"start":528.5999999999999,"end":529.9,"text":"不論是程序委員會"},{"start":529.9,"end":531.0999999999999,"text":"或是內政委員會"},{"start":531.0999999999999,"end":532.3,"text":"以現在的狀況"},{"start":532.3,"end":534,"text":"藍白綠尾就是占多數"},{"start":534,"end":535.4,"text":"那麼如果他們把法案"},{"start":535.4,"end":537.3,"text":"擋住在程序委員會的時候"},{"start":537.3,"end":539.3,"text":"我還是希望主管機關"},{"start":539.3,"end":540.5,"text":"自己也要在這裡"},{"start":540.5,"end":542.1999999999999,"text":"把相關的法規提出來"},{"start":542.2,"end":543.4000000000001,"text":"不論是內政部"},{"start":543.4000000000001,"end":544.7,"text":"還是調查局"},{"start":544.7,"end":545.9000000000001,"text":"還是法務部"},{"start":545.9000000000001,"end":549,"text":"其實都應該來健全法律的部分"},{"start":549,"end":550.3000000000001,"text":"讓這些人"},{"start":550.3000000000001,"end":552.9000000000001,"text":"不要因為台灣的法律有漏洞"},{"start":552.9000000000001,"end":554.8000000000001,"text":"而有機會來鑽法律"},{"start":554.8000000000001,"end":555.8000000000001,"text":"當然同樣的啦"},{"start":555.8000000000001,"end":556.6,"text":"我很樂見"},{"start":556.6,"end":557.9000000000001,"text":"昨天傅崑崎總召"},{"start":557.9000000000001,"end":560.2,"text":"漏頁說他要保護言論自由"},{"start":560.2,"end":564,"text":"然後他要嚴懲這個所謂的跨國鎮壓"},{"start":564,"end":566,"text":"那麼我也希望傅崑崎總召"},{"start":566,"end":567.2,"text":"說到做到"},{"start":567.2,"end":569.2,"text":"讓國民黨在程序委員會"},{"start":569.2,"end":571,"text":"不要再擋國安法案"},{"start":571,"end":572.5,"text":"這才是玩真的"},{"start":572.5,"end":573.7,"text":"不是玩假的"},{"start":573.7,"end":575,"text":"不然就像我們"},{"start":575,"end":576.8,"text":"徐巧欣總召很在乎這個"},{"start":576.8,"end":578.2,"text":"我們沈伯揚委員"},{"start":578.2,"end":579.4,"text":"是不是有來開會"},{"start":579.4,"end":581.4,"text":"結果剛剛我們開機密會議的時候"},{"start":581.4,"end":583,"text":"他在外面開記者會"},{"start":583,"end":584.4,"text":"所以說我只想說"},{"start":584.4,"end":586.8,"text":"等一下可能很多報告他不清楚"},{"start":586.8,"end":588.4,"text":"所以你們可能要花一個時間"},{"start":588.4,"end":590.2,"text":"再跟徐巧欣召委"},{"start":590.2,"end":592.3,"text":"來報告一下剛剛機密會議的內容"},{"start":592.3,"end":593.6,"text":"因為他剛剛在開記者會"},{"start":593.6,"end":594.7,"text":"他可能沒有聽到"},{"start":594.7,"end":596.6,"text":"到時候你們可能要再花時間"},{"start":596.6,"end":597.7,"text":"跟召委報告一下"},{"start":597.7,"end":599.4,"text":"因為不然只有王召委聽到"},{"start":599.4,"end":600.7,"text":"這樣不公平好不好"},{"start":600.7,"end":601.7,"text":"謝謝委員提醒"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}