{"error":false,"id":["171561"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":171561,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/171561","日期":"2026-10-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-6-36-3","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第6會期司法及法制委員會第3次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":6,"會次":3,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第6會期司法及法制委員會第3次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-10-22T10:42:36+08:00","結束時間":"2026-10-22T11:05:53+08:00","影片長度":"00:23:17","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9f0219c4ec2537e6d68a19981e335a93b08b3c7c707988bc7d693c32fb55609ce4add9a9fc88eabd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林倩綺","委員發言時間":"10:42:36 - 11:05:53","會議時間":"2026-10-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第6會期司法及法制委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請銓敘部部長、法務部部長、農業部部長就「公務機關與公務人員於選舉期間違反公務人員行政中立法查辦情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【10月21日及22日兩天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":0.45284375,"end":1.0265937500000002,"speaker_score":0.766},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":11.52284375,"end":16.028468750000002,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":16.28159375,"end":22.47471875,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":21.344093750000003,"end":22.30596875,"speaker_score":0.766},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":22.559093750000002,"end":22.96409375,"speaker_score":0.766},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":23.554718750000003,"end":26.558468750000003,"speaker_score":0.766},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":24.769718750000003,"end":25.309718750000002,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"施部長能傑","start":27.824093750000003,"end":28.094093750000003,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":28.34721875,"end":29.32596875,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":30.27096875,"end":46.032218750000006,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":46.20096875,"end":60.477218750000006,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":60.477218750000006,"end":60.797843750000006,"speaker_score":0.766},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":61.101593750000006,"end":99.13784375,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":99.34034375,"end":114.40971875000001,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":114.89909375,"end":120.73784375000001,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":121.07534375,"end":166.67159375,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"黃次長謀信","start":168.64596875,"end":200.25284375,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"黃次長謀信","start":201.19784375,"end":216.23346875000001,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"黃次長謀信","start":216.48659375000003,"end":234.37409375000001,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":234.15471875000003,"end":255.02909375000002,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"黃次長謀信","start":234.42471875,"end":234.44159375,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"黃次長謀信","start":255.77159375000002,"end":258.37034375,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":258.37034375,"end":268.07346875,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"黃次長謀信","start":267.73596875000004,"end":272.29221875,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"黃次長謀信","start":272.78159375,"end":276.42659375,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"黃次長謀信","start":276.84846875,"end":276.88221875,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":276.88221875,"end":296.03534375000004,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"黃次長謀信","start":296.03534375000004,"end":304.81034375,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"黃次長謀信","start":305.75534375,"end":310.66596875000005,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"黃次長謀信","start":310.71659375,"end":315.54284375000003,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":316.18409375000005,"end":358.54034375000003,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"施部長能傑","start":359.26596875,"end":370.47096875,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"施部長能傑","start":371.14596875,"end":379.54971875,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"施部長能傑","start":380.29221875,"end":383.05971875,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"施部長能傑","start":383.76846875,"end":388.59471875,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"施部長能傑","start":388.91534375000003,"end":389.16846875000005,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"施部長能傑","start":389.48909375000005,"end":390.97409375,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"施部長能傑","start":391.56471875,"end":399.27659375,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":399.27659375,"end":454.94721875000005,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"施部長能傑","start":399.88409375000003,"end":401.35221875,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":455.57159375000003,"end":467.67096875000004,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"施部長能傑","start":468.27846875000006,"end":502.12971875000005,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":501.15096875,"end":569.14034375,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":569.24159375,"end":583.19721875,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":583.9734687499999,"end":592.8328437499999,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":593.2378437500001,"end":594.68909375,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":595.41471875,"end":596.8490937500001,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":600.44346875,"end":644.6728437500001,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":645.0947187500001,"end":658.51034375,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":658.99971875,"end":669.22596875,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":669.8503437500001,"end":695.5847187500001,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":696.22596875,"end":711.9028437500001,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":712.4597187500001,"end":731.6128437500001,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":732.33846875,"end":736.6584687500001,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":736.9284687500001,"end":768.21471875,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":768.5522187500001,"end":784.1953437500001,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":784.7690937500001,"end":794.80971875,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":795.80534375,"end":808.02284375,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":808.88346875,"end":847.96596875,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":848.6072187500001,"end":882.7453437500001,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":883.11659375,"end":883.70721875,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":884.07846875,"end":884.26409375,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":884.8715937500001,"end":886.20471875,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"黃次長昭欽","start":884.9897187500001,"end":956.7590937500001,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":935.71596875,"end":937.65659375,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":937.65659375,"end":937.69034375,"speaker_score":0.766},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":956.7590937500001,"end":1014.7922187500001,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"黃次長昭欽","start":964.1672187500001,"end":965.23034375,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":1015.9397187500001,"end":1031.80221875,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":1032.1565937500002,"end":1040.0372187500002,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":1041.8765937500002,"end":1168.7090937500002,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":1169.92409375,"end":1172.70846875,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"黃次長謀信","start":1171.18971875,"end":1306.42596875,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":1307.5397187500002,"end":1396.43721875,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":1361.26971875,"end":1362.13034375,"speaker_score":0.766},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"黃次長謀信","start":1362.13034375,"end":1362.1640937500001,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"黃次長昭欽","start":1386.9703437500002,"end":1387.03784375,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"黃次長謀信","start":1387.03784375,"end":1387.18971875,"speaker_score":0.982},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"黃次長昭欽","start":1387.18971875,"end":1387.2065937500001,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"黃次長謀信","start":1395.59346875,"end":1397.0447187500001,"speaker_score":0.982}],"whisperx":[{"start":0,"end":30,"text":"呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵呵"},{"start":30,"end":32,"text":"所以我們次長部長好"},{"start":32,"end":36,"text":"那麼兩位本席想要先請教一個法律的問題"},{"start":36,"end":39,"text":"那麼是不是請次長可以針對"},{"start":39,"end":44,"text":"本席接下來提的這個公職人員選罷法的第50條的規定"},{"start":44,"end":49,"text":"來跟本席分享一下你的法律見解"},{"start":49,"end":54,"text":"那麼這個規定當然是在中央跟地方政府的各級機關"},{"start":54,"end":57,"text":"在法定競選活動期間不得從事"},{"start":57,"end":60,"text":"任何與競選宣傳有關的活動"},{"start":60,"end":65,"text":"但是假設一個機關首長在執行公務所到的場所"},{"start":65,"end":69,"text":"還是在處於執行公務或隨時待命的期間"},{"start":69,"end":75,"text":"那明知在場的人士呢具有特定候選人競選總幹事的身份"},{"start":75,"end":79,"text":"那麼主動的展示候選人的競選宣傳的圖樣"},{"start":79,"end":82,"text":"而且由對方在拍攝"},{"start":82,"end":85,"text":"那這個照片後來又成為競選團隊成員"},{"start":85,"end":88,"text":"搭配支持候選人的這個名字"},{"start":88,"end":91,"text":"公開發布到社群平台"},{"start":91,"end":94,"text":"那麼實際產生了競選宣傳的這個效果"},{"start":94,"end":98,"text":"這樣子的一個背景下的本期請教次長"},{"start":98,"end":101,"text":"請教兩位啦"},{"start":101,"end":105,"text":"判斷有沒有從事競選宣傳有關之活動"},{"start":105,"end":109,"text":"究竟是要看行為的實質目的與最終成果"},{"start":109,"end":114,"text":"還是只要使用私人手機就變成私人行為"},{"start":114,"end":117,"text":"那另外呢在宣傳素材"},{"start":117,"end":120,"text":"不是機關首長自己上網發布"},{"start":120,"end":124,"text":"而是明知道有這樣子的事實或可能性"},{"start":124,"end":128,"text":"來配合競選團隊成員來拍攝"},{"start":128,"end":130,"text":"再由對方來公開發布"},{"start":130,"end":136,"text":"能不能就當然排除其參與競選宣傳活動的可能"},{"start":136,"end":139,"text":"那最後呢如果上述的事實"},{"start":139,"end":144,"text":"發生在第40條所訂的法定競選活動期間"},{"start":144,"end":149,"text":"那麼次長部長你們覺得這樣子一個法律的解釋上"},{"start":149,"end":153,"text":"是不是至少已經具備有第50條宣稱的"},{"start":153,"end":155,"text":"與競選宣傳有關之活動"},{"start":155,"end":158,"text":"而必須進一步審查的可能性"},{"start":158,"end":163,"text":"那麼就請你們就這個本席所提的三點回答"},{"start":163,"end":166,"text":"然後不需要就個案來評論"},{"start":167,"end":169,"text":"好 跟委員報告"},{"start":169,"end":171,"text":"當然委員提到選罷法"},{"start":171,"end":173,"text":"主管機關當然是內政部"},{"start":173,"end":176,"text":"那委員提到那我就試著就是說"},{"start":176,"end":180,"text":"第一個選罷法第50條它這個期間"},{"start":180,"end":183,"text":"它前提它必須要是在競選的期間內"},{"start":183,"end":186,"text":"發生的這些宣傳活動才會構成"},{"start":186,"end":188,"text":"那競選期間我們選罷法"},{"start":188,"end":191,"text":"它在第40條其實有一些規範"},{"start":191,"end":193,"text":"它必須要在這一個"},{"start":193,"end":195,"text":"每一種不同的選舉"},{"start":195,"end":197,"text":"它有不同的所謂的競選期間的規範"},{"start":197,"end":200,"text":"所以它你想講這個行為必須要發生在"},{"start":200,"end":205,"text":"選罷法第40條所規定的這個競選期間內"},{"start":205,"end":207,"text":"才有可能該當這個剛剛選罷法"},{"start":207,"end":209,"text":"你就提到的第50條"},{"start":209,"end":210,"text":"這個第一個"},{"start":210,"end":211,"text":"那第二個就是說"},{"start":211,"end":216,"text":"第一個它從事的行為必須要跟它競選有關的相關的活動"},{"start":216,"end":219,"text":"才會可能構成50條的問題"},{"start":219,"end":221,"text":"那是不是競選有關的活動"},{"start":221,"end":222,"text":"競選有關的活動"},{"start":222,"end":224,"text":"它當然就會涉及到個案了"},{"start":224,"end":225,"text":"這不可能不涉及到個案"},{"start":225,"end":227,"text":"這個時候就必須要由個案去做判斷"},{"start":227,"end":229,"text":"就法規面的部分"},{"start":229,"end":230,"text":"雖然我們不是主管機關"},{"start":230,"end":232,"text":"但我對這兩條的理解"},{"start":232,"end":234,"text":"在這邊跟各位認為報告"},{"start":234,"end":237,"text":"那所以剛才本席所提的這三點呢"},{"start":237,"end":239,"text":"有關於這個實質目的最終效果"},{"start":239,"end":241,"text":"還有手機的一個使用"},{"start":241,"end":244,"text":"跟是不是私人行為與否"},{"start":244,"end":246,"text":"然後當然您這邊講說"},{"start":246,"end":248,"text":"有沒有競選的配合"},{"start":248,"end":250,"text":"那如果是在期間跟時間外"},{"start":250,"end":252,"text":"那這樣一個模糊的空間"},{"start":252,"end":253,"text":"如果就你這樣講"},{"start":253,"end":255,"text":"就由內政部去認定嗎"},{"start":255,"end":258,"text":"這個必須要個案去判斷"},{"start":258,"end":259,"text":"那第一個部分就是說"},{"start":259,"end":261,"text":"如果這個有關於行為"},{"start":261,"end":263,"text":"實質目的跟最終效果"},{"start":263,"end":266,"text":"還有使用私人手機的這個區塊"},{"start":266,"end":268,"text":"這也是要個案去認定嗎"},{"start":268,"end":269,"text":"那當然是個案"},{"start":269,"end":270,"text":"前提國安委員報全體"},{"start":270,"end":272,"text":"它必須要發生在競選期間"},{"start":272,"end":274,"text":"40條那個競選期間"},{"start":274,"end":276,"text":"才會該當這50條的構成要件"},{"start":276,"end":279,"text":"那本席接下來來談一下"},{"start":279,"end":280,"text":"那現行的法律"},{"start":280,"end":283,"text":"如果以直轄市長的選舉為例"},{"start":283,"end":285,"text":"那麼法定競選活動期間"},{"start":285,"end":287,"text":"只有在投票日前的15天"},{"start":287,"end":288,"text":"那也就是說"},{"start":288,"end":290,"text":"同樣的政治宣傳行為"},{"start":290,"end":292,"text":"如果在15天以前"},{"start":292,"end":294,"text":"那第50條就不能處理吧"},{"start":294,"end":296,"text":"或是未必能夠處理是嗎"},{"start":296,"end":299,"text":"對 如果委員你貼的是第50條"},{"start":299,"end":301,"text":"它第一些規範的非常清楚"},{"start":301,"end":302,"text":"它必須要競選期間"},{"start":302,"end":304,"text":"那第10期間是什麼時間"},{"start":304,"end":307,"text":"直轄市市長在第40條的"},{"start":307,"end":308,"text":"第一項第一款"},{"start":308,"end":310,"text":"它規定的確就是前15天"},{"start":310,"end":312,"text":"所以你要單純就50條"},{"start":312,"end":314,"text":"它的確會有委員剛所提的"},{"start":314,"end":315,"text":"這個期間的問題沒有錯"},{"start":315,"end":317,"text":"好 那所以接下來本席"},{"start":317,"end":319,"text":"就請教我們部長"},{"start":319,"end":320,"text":"全區部長"},{"start":320,"end":322,"text":"所以在公務人員行政中立法"},{"start":322,"end":325,"text":"主要是規範常任的文官"},{"start":325,"end":327,"text":"那政治任命的部會首長"},{"start":327,"end":328,"text":"政務委員"},{"start":328,"end":331,"text":"也不會全面受到相同的"},{"start":331,"end":333,"text":"行政中立的規範"},{"start":333,"end":336,"text":"那麼如果是基層公務人員"},{"start":336,"end":338,"text":"都不能利用上半時間行政資源"},{"start":338,"end":340,"text":"替候選人來助選"},{"start":340,"end":342,"text":"但是真正掌握部會預算"},{"start":342,"end":346,"text":"人事政策跟龐大行政資源的政務官"},{"start":346,"end":350,"text":"以及反而缺乏一套比較完整的系統"},{"start":350,"end":353,"text":"來明確做政治活動參與"},{"start":353,"end":355,"text":"或配合的一個規範"},{"start":355,"end":358,"text":"那請問這應該要怎麼辦呢"},{"start":358,"end":360,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":360,"end":362,"text":"這個行政中立法裡面有規範"},{"start":362,"end":364,"text":"很特定的所謂政治性任命"},{"start":364,"end":367,"text":"政治性任命比較是獨立機關的委員"},{"start":367,"end":370,"text":"那所謂其他的"},{"start":370,"end":373,"text":"我們外界講的政務人員確實"},{"start":373,"end":376,"text":"他的行為不是規範在行政中立法"},{"start":376,"end":378,"text":"但是行政中立有規範一件事情"},{"start":378,"end":380,"text":"如果你是一個機關首長"},{"start":380,"end":383,"text":"因為政務人員也可能擔任機關首長"},{"start":383,"end":386,"text":"再回到剛剛講的選舉公告以後"},{"start":386,"end":389,"text":"到投票這中間的期間"},{"start":389,"end":393,"text":"你應該要禁止所有其他候選人"},{"start":393,"end":396,"text":"或各式各樣政黨到你機關裡面去"},{"start":396,"end":398,"text":"有任何造訪的活動"},{"start":398,"end":400,"text":"你們一直在講這個時間"},{"start":400,"end":402,"text":"那麼本席要強調的是"},{"start":402,"end":405,"text":"其實剛才那個莊委員在講一些"},{"start":405,"end":407,"text":"你們這邊也回應他一些懲戒的問題"},{"start":407,"end":409,"text":"那相關機關的懲戒"},{"start":409,"end":412,"text":"就是有一些這個我們談的這個相關"},{"start":412,"end":414,"text":"個案的這個懲戒都要回到各機關"},{"start":414,"end":417,"text":"可是呢如果首長是不中立的"},{"start":417,"end":419,"text":"那我覺得各機關真的也很難做"},{"start":419,"end":421,"text":"就是在法條跟實務操作上"},{"start":421,"end":425,"text":"其實還是有很大的一個不一致的狀況"},{"start":425,"end":427,"text":"但是我們再回到剛才我們所講的"},{"start":427,"end":430,"text":"如果行政院長、部長、政務委員"},{"start":430,"end":432,"text":"都是官派也不是人民直選"},{"start":432,"end":437,"text":"那麼但是他們卻掌握了國家很大的行政權利"},{"start":437,"end":441,"text":"那麼法律呢如果只要求下面的幾十萬的"},{"start":441,"end":445,"text":"常任公務人員來行政中立"},{"start":445,"end":447,"text":"但對上面的政務官的限制"},{"start":447,"end":451,"text":"他的限制相對是有很多的這個灰色地帶"},{"start":451,"end":455,"text":"那你不覺得這個狀況還滿荒謬的嗎"},{"start":455,"end":460,"text":"我不知道你們怎麼樣去看待這樣子的問題"},{"start":460,"end":462,"text":"每次要選舉的時候或接近選舉"},{"start":462,"end":467,"text":"都會有這樣子的一個大家提出來的質疑"},{"start":467,"end":468,"text":"那你們怎麼看待"},{"start":468,"end":472,"text":"我跟部門報告這個我想任何的制度本身的運作"},{"start":472,"end":474,"text":"當然還有很多其他條件"},{"start":474,"end":476,"text":"大家一起來共同讓它實現"},{"start":476,"end":478,"text":"不過至少就行政中立法對"},{"start":478,"end":482,"text":"因為政務人員大部分都是擔任長官"},{"start":482,"end":485,"text":"那對長官我剛剛講除了有13條以外"},{"start":485,"end":488,"text":"那另外長官也不可以違法指示"},{"start":488,"end":491,"text":"他說同仁的做任何違反行政中立的事情"},{"start":491,"end":493,"text":"如果他做這個事情"},{"start":493,"end":494,"text":"我想最後呢"},{"start":494,"end":496,"text":"那個他上級長官當然可以講"},{"start":496,"end":497,"text":"上級長官如果不處理"},{"start":497,"end":500,"text":"最後可以到監察案去做這個"},{"start":500,"end":501,"text":"提起這個個案的一個"},{"start":501,"end":503,"text":"好我們今天就存續部的部分"},{"start":503,"end":506,"text":"那存續部來掌理整個公務人員的服務"},{"start":506,"end":509,"text":"還有行政中立相關的法令"},{"start":509,"end":511,"text":"的擬議跟解釋"},{"start":511,"end":514,"text":"那目前立法院也要再審查"},{"start":514,"end":516,"text":"這個政務人員法的一個相關草案"},{"start":516,"end":521,"text":"那最主要的問題就是和政務人員的這個行為奮進"},{"start":521,"end":523,"text":"行政中立還有責任制度"},{"start":523,"end":525,"text":"其實到現在還很不完整"},{"start":525,"end":527,"text":"那請你們表達看法"},{"start":527,"end":529,"text":"最主要是那麼在政務人員的法制化"},{"start":529,"end":532,"text":"是不是應該要明定政務官不得於"},{"start":532,"end":535,"text":"執行公務期間或辦公或辦公"},{"start":535,"end":536,"text":"公務的場所"},{"start":536,"end":539,"text":"那跟他職務身份相關的行政資源"},{"start":539,"end":543,"text":"還有為特定政黨或候選人製作參與"},{"start":543,"end":547,"text":"或協助競選宣傳的一些工作"},{"start":547,"end":549,"text":"所以法制主管的權責這部分"},{"start":549,"end":552,"text":"全序部考試院不就應該負起責任"},{"start":552,"end":554,"text":"在本席認為這個部分"},{"start":554,"end":557,"text":"在法制面既然我們有這麼多的個案"},{"start":557,"end":559,"text":"那我們其實強調的是整個制度"},{"start":560,"end":563,"text":"你們也知道制度上的一些困境"},{"start":563,"end":566,"text":"所以在這個部分我們也不希望求援兼裁判"},{"start":566,"end":571,"text":"所以法律不能對長任文官的這個高強高主"},{"start":571,"end":573,"text":"卻對政務官來開大門"},{"start":573,"end":577,"text":"所以在當我們進入這個法條的這個部分"},{"start":577,"end":581,"text":"我也希望你們能夠就目前個案的這個經驗"},{"start":581,"end":583,"text":"然後在制度面可以建立得更完整"},{"start":584,"end":589,"text":"好那接下來本席要請這個應該農田"},{"start":589,"end":593,"text":"農業部次長跟署長"},{"start":593,"end":595,"text":"黃次長跟署長"},{"start":595,"end":597,"text":"謝謝那兩位請回"},{"start":600,"end":604,"text":"我想今天要問的問題也不是新鮮的"},{"start":604,"end":607,"text":"這兩天都有委員提出來"},{"start":607,"end":612,"text":"這個有關於能非公用土地租借的這個問題"},{"start":612,"end":615,"text":"那剛才本席前一位那個莊瑞雄委員"},{"start":615,"end":618,"text":"用很風趣的方式"},{"start":618,"end":622,"text":"試圖把這整個問題的一個嚴肅性"},{"start":622,"end":624,"text":"做一些稀釋"},{"start":624,"end":629,"text":"但是我們還是要回到這個我們在公務部門的一個嚴肅的主題"},{"start":629,"end":632,"text":"所以其實在剛才莊委員"},{"start":632,"end":635,"text":"我想你們也應該知道本席要的質詢是什麼"},{"start":635,"end":639,"text":"我還是把這個背景清楚交代一下"},{"start":639,"end":642,"text":"那你們在國有土地出租公平性的問題"},{"start":642,"end":645,"text":"是本席接下來要討論"},{"start":645,"end":647,"text":"跟辯證的"},{"start":647,"end":650,"text":"所以市長候選人我們講桃園"},{"start":650,"end":654,"text":"應該是法務部大家都很熟悉的我們次長黃次長"},{"start":654,"end":659,"text":"租用了農田水利署的中壢區的中運段"},{"start":659,"end":665,"text":"145地號土地舉行辦理大象的大型的一個選舉活動"},{"start":665,"end":668,"text":"整個面積是1655平"},{"start":668,"end":670,"text":"所以我們只用了兩天"},{"start":670,"end":674,"text":"那麼農水署的說法是租金81700元"},{"start":674,"end":676,"text":"那外界很質疑"},{"start":676,"end":678,"text":"不僅是對錢有質疑"},{"start":678,"end":681,"text":"對於這個土地的租界也很質疑"},{"start":681,"end":684,"text":"那剛才其實招職委員在回應"},{"start":684,"end":688,"text":"在補充莊瑞雄委員試圖想要把他"},{"start":688,"end":691,"text":"做一個公平性的討論的這個問題"},{"start":691,"end":693,"text":"也做了一些回應"},{"start":693,"end":696,"text":"那最重要的是你們自己有一個規定"},{"start":696,"end":697,"text":"為什麼大家有意見"},{"start":697,"end":699,"text":"就是你們的規定裡面明定"},{"start":699,"end":705,"text":"農田水利非事業用不動產活化收益辦法第19條"},{"start":705,"end":709,"text":"原則上非事業用的不動產出租"},{"start":709,"end":711,"text":"應該要公開標出"},{"start":711,"end":715,"text":"另外整個的例外是包括年租金"},{"start":715,"end":719,"text":"沒有達到15萬元才可以盡予出租"},{"start":719,"end":721,"text":"那第21條又規定"},{"start":721,"end":723,"text":"一般土地年租金不得低於"},{"start":723,"end":727,"text":"當期土地申報地價總額的5%"},{"start":727,"end":729,"text":"雖然剛才莊委員有說"},{"start":729,"end":731,"text":"反正各政黨就出租好了"},{"start":731,"end":734,"text":"可是重點是你們有規定"},{"start":734,"end":737,"text":"所以大家是針對這個規定"},{"start":737,"end":740,"text":"你們似乎在這個規定裡面沒有好好的遵守"},{"start":740,"end":743,"text":"而且已經有這個違法的情況"},{"start":743,"end":746,"text":"所以我們才有這樣子的一個質詢跟討論"},{"start":746,"end":747,"text":"所以這塊土地呢"},{"start":747,"end":751,"text":"如果按照申報地價來計算年租金的話"},{"start":751,"end":753,"text":"它是遠高於15萬元的"},{"start":753,"end":756,"text":"但是你們農水署的說法卻是"},{"start":756,"end":758,"text":"因為實際只使用了兩天"},{"start":758,"end":761,"text":"租金只有8萬1000元"},{"start":761,"end":763,"text":"所以可以盡予出租"},{"start":763,"end":765,"text":"都不用說了"},{"start":765,"end":766,"text":"你們在解釋法律"},{"start":766,"end":767,"text":"部長"},{"start":767,"end":768,"text":"對不起次長"},{"start":768,"end":772,"text":"第19條所稱的年租金沒有達15萬元"},{"start":772,"end":774,"text":"那本席這邊認為"},{"start":774,"end":777,"text":"是依照21條計算出來的年租金"},{"start":777,"end":779,"text":"那麼農業部也引述"},{"start":779,"end":782,"text":"農業部農田水利署石門管理處"},{"start":782,"end":786,"text":"非事業用地出租的這個原則"},{"start":786,"end":788,"text":"的內部行政規則"},{"start":788,"end":791,"text":"而且只是一個行政規則"},{"start":791,"end":795,"text":"本席沒有看到農業部提出的折算公示"},{"start":795,"end":798,"text":"所以未來任何高價值的國有土地"},{"start":798,"end":801,"text":"是不是都會透過這樣的模式"},{"start":801,"end":803,"text":"來規避公開標誌"},{"start":803,"end":808,"text":"那這個解釋恐怕是造成制度很大的漏洞"},{"start":808,"end":812,"text":"那另外本席也關注所謂的公平性"},{"start":812,"end":815,"text":"那麼農水署是不是對所有政黨候選人"},{"start":815,"end":817,"text":"都使用一視同仁的申請"},{"start":817,"end":820,"text":"租金查定及場地使用的標準"},{"start":820,"end":823,"text":"那麼一般民眾如果申請同一塊"},{"start":823,"end":827,"text":"1655坪土地來辦理兩天的活動"},{"start":827,"end":832,"text":"那都是以81700元左右來承租嗎"},{"start":832,"end":834,"text":"那其他政黨候選人是不是也享有"},{"start":834,"end":837,"text":"完全相同的申請管道與條件"},{"start":837,"end":839,"text":"那你們之後也不要再說"},{"start":839,"end":842,"text":"因為有這個個案未來就不行"},{"start":842,"end":844,"text":"你不能先違法再先"},{"start":844,"end":850,"text":"然後再用違法的情勢來排拒其他的公平的要求"},{"start":850,"end":854,"text":"所以本席認為農業部應該要把標準"},{"start":854,"end":857,"text":"還有計算的公示跟審查的流程"},{"start":857,"end":860,"text":"跟過去類似的短租出租案件"},{"start":860,"end":863,"text":"全部公開讓社會來檢驗"},{"start":863,"end":865,"text":"那我們不能說這次我們沒有審查"},{"start":865,"end":867,"text":"不知道短租長租"},{"start":867,"end":870,"text":"剛才中委員雖然在幫你們想辦法"},{"start":870,"end":872,"text":"所以應該在未來的檢討上"},{"start":872,"end":875,"text":"短租長租要有一些討論"},{"start":875,"end":876,"text":"然後再制定"},{"start":876,"end":878,"text":"但是已發生的已發生"},{"start":878,"end":880,"text":"那這樣子的爭議疑慮"},{"start":880,"end":883,"text":"應該讓社會各界所了解"},{"start":883,"end":886,"text":"所以請市長做一個回應"},{"start":886,"end":887,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":887,"end":889,"text":"那剛剛委員最後所說的"},{"start":889,"end":891,"text":"當然在這塊土地"},{"start":891,"end":893,"text":"如果其他的人其他的政黨"},{"start":893,"end":895,"text":"或者是人提出來的申請"},{"start":895,"end":897,"text":"我們當然都是一樣的這個條件"},{"start":897,"end":900,"text":"一樣的這樣的一個標準來對待"},{"start":900,"end":902,"text":"這絕對不會有什麼區別"},{"start":902,"end":903,"text":"那剛剛有說到了"},{"start":903,"end":906,"text":"事實上這一塊土地之所以"},{"start":906,"end":907,"text":"其實因為我們農水署"},{"start":907,"end":911,"text":"它主要負責的就是我們農田水利的這個"},{"start":911,"end":915,"text":"進入的這些這個土地"},{"start":915,"end":917,"text":"那事實上這塊土地是因為"},{"start":917,"end":920,"text":"土地循收交換過來的這樣的"},{"start":920,"end":923,"text":"區分徵收交換過來的這樣的條件"},{"start":923,"end":925,"text":"所以它在今年的4月才點交"},{"start":925,"end":927,"text":"那所以我們其實也是希望"},{"start":927,"end":929,"text":"它做長期的這個活化"},{"start":929,"end":933,"text":"所以有委託公司在做長期活化的"},{"start":933,"end":934,"text":"這樣的一個規劃"},{"start":934,"end":936,"text":"那但是在這個規劃的過程裡面"},{"start":936,"end":937,"text":"目前已經在做規劃了嗎"},{"start":937,"end":939,"text":"目前已經在規劃有標案了"},{"start":939,"end":941,"text":"那所以在做這個規劃的這個"},{"start":941,"end":943,"text":"空窗期這裡"},{"start":943,"end":945,"text":"有人提出來他要利用的這個部分"},{"start":945,"end":947,"text":"我們都非常的歡迎"},{"start":947,"end":950,"text":"那當然後面如果有整個那個要"},{"start":950,"end":953,"text":"長期的這個公開照告的那個案子的話"},{"start":953,"end":956,"text":"那當然就是那個時間點就會告一個中斷"},{"start":956,"end":958,"text":"所以本席也要求"},{"start":958,"end":962,"text":"如果還有其他單位提出來"},{"start":962,"end":965,"text":"你們不能以目前這個個案"},{"start":965,"end":967,"text":"作為規避的一個手段"},{"start":967,"end":970,"text":"那另外你們要確實的檢討"},{"start":970,"end":972,"text":"那其實是有內規的"},{"start":972,"end":974,"text":"就算是一個行政規則"},{"start":974,"end":976,"text":"也是有一個依循"},{"start":976,"end":977,"text":"也是有一個依循"},{"start":977,"end":980,"text":"所以應該不是沒有標準"},{"start":980,"end":982,"text":"然後大家在這裡面有誤失"},{"start":982,"end":985,"text":"所以就如同陳昭之委員所講的"},{"start":985,"end":987,"text":"你們是違法在先嘛"},{"start":987,"end":989,"text":"所以大家才會有這樣的疑慮嘛"},{"start":989,"end":990,"text":"好不好"},{"start":990,"end":991,"text":"所以很重要就是說"},{"start":991,"end":995,"text":"在選舉期間行政機關要讓大家相信"},{"start":995,"end":998,"text":"這個國有土地不是任何候選人的一個競選資源"},{"start":998,"end":1001,"text":"那也不能因為申請人的政治身分"},{"start":1001,"end":1003,"text":"家庭背景或主管機關的關係"},{"start":1003,"end":1006,"text":"讓社會產生差別待遇的疑慮"},{"start":1006,"end":1009,"text":"我想這個部分就是我們今天討論這個主題"},{"start":1009,"end":1012,"text":"除了對於先前這個個案的一些微思"},{"start":1012,"end":1016,"text":"那我們也希望在接下來的過程當中"},{"start":1016,"end":1018,"text":"大家能夠被公平對待"},{"start":1018,"end":1019,"text":"然後最重要的是"},{"start":1019,"end":1022,"text":"當然很多委員也提出一些意見啦"},{"start":1022,"end":1024,"text":"假設你們要分短租或長租"},{"start":1024,"end":1027,"text":"那還是要有一個讓外界不會疑慮的標準"},{"start":1027,"end":1028,"text":"OK好謝謝"},{"start":1028,"end":1032,"text":"那就請相關單位回去做個檢討"},{"start":1032,"end":1033,"text":"那最後有一個"},{"start":1033,"end":1037,"text":"抱歉喔那個法務那個次長"},{"start":1037,"end":1038,"text":"不知道黃次長"},{"start":1038,"end":1040,"text":"那再請您上來一下"},{"start":1041,"end":1044,"text":"很快的本席這邊要請教法務部"},{"start":1044,"end":1048,"text":"在擴大異科罰金跟異輔社會勞動"},{"start":1048,"end":1051,"text":"跟還有放寬罰金分歧政策的這個問題"},{"start":1051,"end":1053,"text":"那目前地線的反應是說"},{"start":1053,"end":1056,"text":"這個監索的壓力雖然可能減輕"},{"start":1056,"end":1058,"text":"但是工作其實是沒有消失"},{"start":1058,"end":1059,"text":"它只是被挪移了"},{"start":1059,"end":1062,"text":"結果好像是移往了這個地檢署的執行科"},{"start":1062,"end":1064,"text":"書記官跟關護人"},{"start":1064,"end":1067,"text":"那麼分歧繳納因為每一期都要追蹤列管"},{"start":1067,"end":1071,"text":"那如果沒有暗示繳又要催繳"},{"start":1071,"end":1074,"text":"那麼傳喚具體又要重新通緝"},{"start":1074,"end":1076,"text":"有的時候會要重新通緝啦"},{"start":1076,"end":1080,"text":"那所以整個已經通緝了或具體到案的受刑人"},{"start":1080,"end":1085,"text":"可能還又可能再進入到這個分歧審核的一個程序"},{"start":1085,"end":1087,"text":"那我們試圖想要減輕一些事情"},{"start":1087,"end":1090,"text":"可是這個可能這個單位減輕了"},{"start":1090,"end":1092,"text":"結果又變成另外一個單位"},{"start":1092,"end":1096,"text":"那這個增加了一些比較詳盡的這個手段"},{"start":1096,"end":1101,"text":"結果又增加了其他一些反覆的這個步驟"},{"start":1101,"end":1104,"text":"所以法務部在推動這項政策的時候"},{"start":1104,"end":1106,"text":"有沒有事先估算過啦"},{"start":1106,"end":1109,"text":"每增加一件分歧的案件"},{"start":1109,"end":1112,"text":"那社會勞動的案件會增加多少執行科"},{"start":1112,"end":1114,"text":"書記官、關護人的一個行政負擔"},{"start":1114,"end":1115,"text":"那另外呢"},{"start":1115,"end":1118,"text":"在高檢案所的會議裡面也有檢察官反應"},{"start":1118,"end":1123,"text":"現在的案管系統雖然有到期了會警示"},{"start":1123,"end":1126,"text":"但是實務上不一定會正常跳出提醒"},{"start":1126,"end":1129,"text":"那現在政策擴大案件量又增加"},{"start":1129,"end":1132,"text":"那最後還是會有這個漏追漏吹"},{"start":1132,"end":1135,"text":"甚至已經在執行的案件又失控"},{"start":1135,"end":1138,"text":"那法務部有沒有設定期程"},{"start":1138,"end":1140,"text":"把案管的系統分期警示"},{"start":1140,"end":1144,"text":"違約提醒還有催繳追蹤的這個功能"},{"start":1144,"end":1146,"text":"全面做一個修正改善"},{"start":1146,"end":1149,"text":"那另外在去年每一年"},{"start":1149,"end":1151,"text":"2025年的每一名關護人"},{"start":1151,"end":1154,"text":"平均受理的案件已經超過500件"},{"start":1154,"end":1159,"text":"那近五年來社會勞動的案件成長量是17.4%"},{"start":1159,"end":1162,"text":"那麼比現在整個社會勞動的案件"},{"start":1162,"end":1164,"text":"還在持續的增加"},{"start":1164,"end":1166,"text":"那是不是要同步去處理人力"},{"start":1166,"end":1169,"text":"跟執行機構量能的問題"},{"start":1170,"end":1173,"text":"市長這邊是不是可以先做一個回應"},{"start":1173,"end":1176,"text":"那個疫情處分基本上我們只對那些經濟上的弱勢者"},{"start":1176,"end":1179,"text":"不應該把他就是因為他經濟上的困難"},{"start":1179,"end":1181,"text":"而把他入監服刑"},{"start":1181,"end":1184,"text":"所以我們這個基本上政策是針對他經濟上的弱者"},{"start":1184,"end":1186,"text":"我們提高他的分期的起訴"},{"start":1186,"end":1189,"text":"讓他比較能夠籌出一顆髮巾的錢"},{"start":1189,"end":1191,"text":"不要因為你是經濟上弱者"},{"start":1191,"end":1193,"text":"就必須要現實的入監服刑"},{"start":1193,"end":1197,"text":"這個是我們他一旦這個有錢可以籌得多"},{"start":1197,"end":1199,"text":"所以他可以一顆髮巾出去之後"},{"start":1199,"end":1201,"text":"他就不會進到監獄"},{"start":1201,"end":1206,"text":"當然這個會增加數據觀檢察官相關的行政工作"},{"start":1206,"end":1209,"text":"當然會因為他從我們從8期讓他延期到12期"},{"start":1209,"end":1212,"text":"當然他會增加一些行政上的成本沒有錯"},{"start":1212,"end":1214,"text":"但這個行政成本來講"},{"start":1214,"end":1216,"text":"我們另外有一些相配套的措施"},{"start":1216,"end":1217,"text":"我們讓他延長之後"},{"start":1217,"end":1220,"text":"我們也鬆綁了相關數據觀管考"},{"start":1220,"end":1222,"text":"跟相關的管考上的壓力"},{"start":1222,"end":1224,"text":"我們以前辦案都有一定的辦案期限"},{"start":1224,"end":1225,"text":"我們把延長之後"},{"start":1225,"end":1227,"text":"我們也讓數據觀的辦案期限延長"},{"start":1227,"end":1228,"text":"我們管考也鬆綁"},{"start":1228,"end":1232,"text":"讓數據觀檢察官願意做這個疫情的處分"},{"start":1232,"end":1236,"text":"所以他的確會增加數據觀一些相關行政成本"},{"start":1236,"end":1238,"text":"但是在行政檢察行政上面"},{"start":1238,"end":1240,"text":"我們也去鬆綁他相關的管制"},{"start":1240,"end":1241,"text":"這第一點"},{"start":1241,"end":1243,"text":"第二點您提到的就是說"},{"start":1243,"end":1246,"text":"那這個政策會不會有其他相配套的"},{"start":1246,"end":1251,"text":"當然我們一旦的增加他義服社會勞動的這個可能性之後"},{"start":1251,"end":1253,"text":"我們就要多一些社會勞動的機構"},{"start":1253,"end":1255,"text":"讓他可以去做這社會勞動的機構"},{"start":1255,"end":1259,"text":"所以我們也要求全國各地檢署的檢察官檢察長們"},{"start":1259,"end":1263,"text":"你要去廣泛的去找一些比較優質的社會勞動機構"},{"start":1263,"end":1267,"text":"讓這些社勞人以後可以去從事相關的社勞工作"},{"start":1267,"end":1271,"text":"所以這是我們也是要求他們比較相關配合的"},{"start":1271,"end":1272,"text":"另外我已經提到的"},{"start":1272,"end":1274,"text":"我們推行這個政策之後"},{"start":1274,"end":1276,"text":"我們一些行政上的一些措施要配套"},{"start":1276,"end":1279,"text":"剛剛我提到一些當然是非常精細的"},{"start":1279,"end":1280,"text":"非常細的細節的部分"},{"start":1280,"end":1283,"text":"包括一些電腦相關的這個設備"},{"start":1283,"end":1286,"text":"要不要有一些做處理會不會碰到一些困難"},{"start":1286,"end":1290,"text":"因為這個政策我們推行大概現在大概兩三個月"},{"start":1290,"end":1293,"text":"他只整個由台高檢所主機負責統籌"},{"start":1293,"end":1296,"text":"那如果細節上有委員應該所提到的"},{"start":1296,"end":1298,"text":"電腦或系統上要做配合的"},{"start":1298,"end":1301,"text":"我相信台高檢在施行這陣子之後"},{"start":1301,"end":1304,"text":"他會做出相關的這個修正或做相關的檢討跟改進"},{"start":1304,"end":1305,"text":"好"},{"start":1305,"end":1308,"text":"所以本席在這邊今天有提出來"},{"start":1308,"end":1310,"text":"那我也希望就是台高檢這邊"},{"start":1310,"end":1311,"text":"因為本席提出"},{"start":1311,"end":1314,"text":"所以他也要趕快一起follow"},{"start":1314,"end":1316,"text":"那這個政策的一個細節"},{"start":1316,"end":1319,"text":"那既然會有這樣第一線人員反應"},{"start":1319,"end":1321,"text":"應該像你們政策執行上"},{"start":1321,"end":1324,"text":"雖然也有放寬了一些條件"},{"start":1324,"end":1328,"text":"但是或許在條件跟這個政策的執行上"},{"start":1328,"end":1331,"text":"還沒有達到比例一致的這個平衡"},{"start":1331,"end":1334,"text":"所以會有現在這樣一個狀況"},{"start":1334,"end":1337,"text":"所以或許你們也應該是在檢討"},{"start":1337,"end":1339,"text":"應該是在檢視一下"},{"start":1339,"end":1341,"text":"那麼你們所放寬的這個期限"},{"start":1341,"end":1344,"text":"或是放寬的相對措施"},{"start":1344,"end":1347,"text":"是不是真的符合目前第一線的狀況"},{"start":1347,"end":1349,"text":"那我想雖然是進行了幾個月"},{"start":1349,"end":1351,"text":"既然本席這邊提出來"},{"start":1351,"end":1353,"text":"那我希望你們可以同步的再觀察"},{"start":1353,"end":1354,"text":"目前的一個狀況"},{"start":1354,"end":1357,"text":"然後未來如果真的需要再做一些調整的"},{"start":1357,"end":1359,"text":"那也是聽聽第一線的人員"},{"start":1359,"end":1361,"text":"看看目前的狀況如何"},{"start":1361,"end":1362,"text":"了解"},{"start":1362,"end":1363,"text":"所以當然最重要就是說"},{"start":1363,"end":1365,"text":"本席這邊也支持疫情的政策"},{"start":1365,"end":1368,"text":"但是不能只做到讓人不要進監所"},{"start":1368,"end":1369,"text":"但整個政策執行"},{"start":1369,"end":1372,"text":"又陷入這個混亂的不確定當中"},{"start":1372,"end":1373,"text":"那重點就是說"},{"start":1373,"end":1377,"text":"監所的減壓不能成為地檢署的這個加壓"},{"start":1377,"end":1379,"text":"那我們也當然知道我們人類"},{"start":1379,"end":1381,"text":"人力的這個匱乏"},{"start":1381,"end":1383,"text":"是我們現在整體的問題"},{"start":1383,"end":1387,"text":"那每一個領域都有它不同的一個強度"},{"start":1387,"end":1388,"text":"但是長期性的問題"},{"start":1388,"end":1391,"text":"我們也是必須要在短期性的政策推動上"},{"start":1391,"end":1392,"text":"然後檢視"},{"start":1392,"end":1394,"text":"然後去做一個比較細節性的處理"},{"start":1394,"end":1395,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":1395,"end":1396,"text":"謝謝委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}