{"error":false,"id":["171564"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":171564,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/171564","日期":"2026-10-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-6-35-5","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第6會期外交及國防委員會第5次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":6,"會次":5,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第6會期外交及國防委員會第5次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-10-22T11:07:27+08:00","結束時間":"2026-10-22T11:14:06+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:39","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9f0219c4ec2537e6eec66fd06995c32e27917fd04753b2847d693c32fb55609c4a3685e9cc37c4ee5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭昱晴","委員發言時間":"11:07:27 - 11:14:06","會議時間":"2026-10-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第6會期外交及國防委員會第5次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥率相關情報機關首長提出「國家情報工作暨國家安全局業務報告」，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"郭昱晴委員","start":0.03096875,"end":1.7690937500000001,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":2.00534375,"end":3.03471875,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":9.025343750000001,"end":9.83534375,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"郭昱晴委員","start":9.93659375,"end":21.73221875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"郭昱晴委員","start":22.10346875,"end":26.94659375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"郭昱晴委員","start":27.26721875,"end":42.353468750000005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":35.41784375,"end":35.78909375,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":38.033468750000004,"end":38.38784375,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"郭昱晴委員","start":44.040968750000005,"end":70.33221875000001,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"郭昱晴委員","start":70.43346875,"end":74.38221875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"郭昱晴委員","start":74.51721875,"end":104.63909375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"郭昱晴委員","start":104.75721875,"end":107.00159375000001,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"郭昱晴委員","start":107.08596875,"end":109.22909375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"郭昱晴委員","start":109.48221875,"end":113.80221875000001,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"郭昱晴委員","start":113.97096875000001,"end":177.13409375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":171.63284375,"end":172.03784375,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":177.23534375,"end":206.26034375,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":206.41221875000002,"end":232.65284375000002,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"郭昱晴委員","start":232.12971875000002,"end":241.15784375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":239.25096875000003,"end":239.70659375000002,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":241.17471875,"end":252.61596875,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":253.05471875,"end":271.97159375,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"郭昱晴委員","start":271.90409375,"end":276.29159375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":272.15721875,"end":272.42721875,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":275.56596875,"end":335.87721875,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"郭昱晴委員","start":277.32096875,"end":277.42221875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"郭昱晴委員","start":284.52659375,"end":284.91471875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"郭昱晴委員","start":288.12096875000003,"end":288.34034375000005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":336.26534375,"end":358.89471875000004,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"郭昱晴委員","start":358.89471875000004,"end":375.92159375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":361.15596875,"end":361.39221875000004,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":365.98221875,"end":366.20159375000003,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":368.63159375000004,"end":369.12096875000003,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":375.93846875,"end":390.75471875000005,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"郭昱晴委員","start":378.38534375,"end":378.62159375000005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"郭昱晴委員","start":390.75471875000005,"end":390.82221875000005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":390.82221875000005,"end":393.57284375,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"郭昱晴委員","start":393.35346875000005,"end":397.23471875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡局長明彥","start":394.41659375,"end":398.97284375000004,"speaker_score":0.952},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"郭昱晴委員","start":397.45409375,"end":398.43284375,"speaker_score":0.898}],"whisperx":[{"start":0,"end":2,"text":"謝謝主席 有請局長"},{"start":2,"end":4,"text":"請蔡局長"},{"start":8.86,"end":9.86,"text":"郭文豪"},{"start":9.86,"end":11.36,"text":"好 局長早安"},{"start":11.36,"end":14.36,"text":"我想昨天的這一起這個新北"},{"start":14.36,"end":18.86,"text":"那議界組起訴了這件案子 其實令人毛骨悚然"},{"start":18.86,"end":22,"text":"那我想這一位台灣的這個相聲的演員"},{"start":22,"end":27.2,"text":"那黃毅豪他在舞台上因為諷刺這個中共跟這個習近平"},{"start":27.2,"end":32.2,"text":"然後遭到了這個中國的境外勢力花費了45萬元的一個台幣"},{"start":32.2,"end":35.2,"text":"等於是跨海來買兇 可以這麼講"},{"start":35.2,"end":42.2,"text":"那進行非常的寫實而且令人覺得非常惶恐的所謂的跨境鎮壓"},{"start":44.2,"end":50.2,"text":"那我想他之前這一群幫兇其實在黃先生他的車上"},{"start":50.2,"end":54.2,"text":"有安裝所謂的GPS的一個定位"},{"start":54.2,"end":60.2,"text":"那另外也企圖用所謂的這個假車禍或是偵車禍"},{"start":60.2,"end":63.2,"text":"然後也恐嚇他就是要打斷他的手腳"},{"start":63.2,"end":66.2,"text":"讓他之後沒有辦法再上台演出"},{"start":66.2,"end":70.2,"text":"那我想這已經不是一般的所謂的治安的車禍的一個案件了"},{"start":70.2,"end":74.2,"text":"那這個其實也透過他們這樣子的一個行徑"},{"start":74.2,"end":81.2,"text":"那之前也有在這個跨海叫做潑糞潑漆等等這樣子的一個狀況"},{"start":81.2,"end":85.2,"text":"那在這裡其實是一個非常恐怖的一種滲透"},{"start":85.2,"end":87.2,"text":"那我想在這裡請教一下局長"},{"start":87.2,"end":92.2,"text":"因為這件案件其實也透露了這個我等一下要問的這個三個部分"},{"start":92.2,"end":98.2,"text":"那我想這個三大盲區包含就是他的金流還有他的通訊的一個盲區"},{"start":98.2,"end":102.2,"text":"那我想中共利用所謂的虛擬貨幣也好或者是通訊的這個軟體也好"},{"start":102.2,"end":104.2,"text":"他從境外遠端的下單"},{"start":104.2,"end":109.2,"text":"然後再來結合台灣的黑幫跟所謂的退役的真性社"},{"start":109.2,"end":111.2,"text":"那在境內接單"},{"start":111.2,"end":113.2,"text":"那當所謂的這個外包的縣民"},{"start":113.2,"end":117.2,"text":"他們設這樣子的一種所謂的斷點的犯罪"},{"start":117.2,"end":121.2,"text":"那我想國安局事前有沒有經過情搜"},{"start":121.2,"end":125.2,"text":"或者是我們有沒有任何的資訊可以來做預警"},{"start":125.2,"end":126.2,"text":"這是第一個問題"},{"start":126.2,"end":128.2,"text":"那第二個問題就是說"},{"start":128.2,"end":131.2,"text":"他利用所謂的車禍也好或者潑糞也好"},{"start":131.2,"end":134.2,"text":"其實他是來規避反滲透法"},{"start":134.2,"end":136.2,"text":"那另外也規避這個國安法的部分"},{"start":136.2,"end":141.2,"text":"那我們國安局這邊如果只能把它當成一般的社會的一個糾紛"},{"start":141.2,"end":145.2,"text":"只是給所謂的基層的員警去查查"},{"start":145.2,"end":148.2,"text":"我想這個層級其實是真的完全是不夠的"},{"start":148.2,"end":152.2,"text":"第三個因為這位這個黃演員"},{"start":152.2,"end":156.2,"text":"他有說他在11月他還會在登台的這個表演"},{"start":156.2,"end":159.2,"text":"那但是呢他其實也做了這個寒蟬效應"},{"start":159.2,"end":165.2,"text":"這個寒蟬效應他居然要在現場要發所謂的防潑史的雨衣"},{"start":165.2,"end":169.2,"text":"這個對於台灣民主來講其實是非常大的一個諷刺"},{"start":169.2,"end":172.2,"text":"那針對這三點請教一下這個局長"},{"start":172.2,"end":174.2,"text":"我們有沒有什麼樣的因應之道"},{"start":174.2,"end":177.2,"text":"因為這個其實是非常嚴重的一件事情"},{"start":177.2,"end":181.2,"text":"對因為跨國鎮壓的案件是對我們民主法治社會一個嚴重的挑戰"},{"start":181.2,"end":184.2,"text":"那讓民眾處於一種恐慌的狀態"},{"start":184.2,"end":186.2,"text":"那所以國安局這邊大概我們都有列管"},{"start":186.2,"end":188.2,"text":"那針對這些個案的列管"},{"start":188.2,"end":191.2,"text":"我們跟警政署這邊都有一個即時情資分享"},{"start":191.2,"end":193.2,"text":"跟保護當事人的一些規劃"},{"start":193.2,"end":197.2,"text":"所以以這個個案來講當事人我們在第一時間"},{"start":197.2,"end":200.2,"text":"因為他去年就已經被威脅恐嚇潑氣潑糞了"},{"start":200.2,"end":203.2,"text":"所以已經有列入專案的一個管制"},{"start":203.2,"end":206.2,"text":"那包括他人身的安全的維護"},{"start":206.2,"end":208.2,"text":"我們把他所有的演出場次大家都已經列出來了"},{"start":208.2,"end":212.2,"text":"那有跟警方去討論怎麼樣提供他個人人身保護"},{"start":212.2,"end":215.2,"text":"以及他出入場所周邊的保護"},{"start":215.2,"end":218.2,"text":"因為怕有現行犯沒有辦法逮捕他"},{"start":218.2,"end":220.2,"text":"所以這部分大概都有做一些前置的部署"},{"start":220.2,"end":223.2,"text":"那我只是用這個個案來讓委員稍微知道一下"},{"start":223.2,"end":226.2,"text":"針對這些跨國鎮壓的這些案例"},{"start":226.2,"end":232.2,"text":"我們國安機關跟警政署這邊大概都有一個密切聯繫通報的機制"},{"start":232.2,"end":234.2,"text":"那有沒有另外一個更明確的一個做法"},{"start":234.2,"end":236.2,"text":"比方說我剛剛所提到的"},{"start":236.2,"end":238.2,"text":"他其實是透過境外的一個金流"},{"start":238.2,"end":241.2,"text":"那這個部分的金流我們怎麼樣阻斷"},{"start":241.2,"end":243.2,"text":"對這個部分必須要先有情資"},{"start":243.2,"end":247.2,"text":"那另外再從涉案人士他的數位激政去還原"},{"start":247.2,"end":250.2,"text":"是不是有境外的指示還有金流的挹注"},{"start":250.2,"end":253.2,"text":"那以相關個案來講"},{"start":253.2,"end":255.2,"text":"有掌握這樣的施政的話"},{"start":255.2,"end":258.2,"text":"你比較能夠去勾連到所謂的境外勢力的指使跟支柱"},{"start":258.2,"end":261.2,"text":"那這個法律要件的構成不太容易"},{"start":261.2,"end":263.2,"text":"必須跟老實跟委員承認不太容易"},{"start":263.2,"end":264.2,"text":"因為他是在境外"},{"start":264.2,"end":266.2,"text":"那不過幾個案例下來"},{"start":266.2,"end":270.2,"text":"也在這部分的施政的收集有出現一些突破"},{"start":270.2,"end":271.2,"text":"這大概是第一點"},{"start":271.2,"end":273.2,"text":"那有沒有因為這個個案"},{"start":273.2,"end":275.2,"text":"其實我們也組成了所謂的跨部會"},{"start":275.2,"end":277.2,"text":"對我們在累積經驗"},{"start":277.2,"end":279.2,"text":"我們是不斷的在處理個案當中去累積經驗"},{"start":279.2,"end":281.2,"text":"那第二部分委員有提到"},{"start":281.2,"end":284.2,"text":"那這種案子不應該由基層的員警"},{"start":284.2,"end":288.2,"text":"去用一般的刑事犯件或民事糾紛去處理"},{"start":288.2,"end":289.2,"text":"所以以這個個案來講"},{"start":289.2,"end":291.2,"text":"事實上因為他已經被我們列管了"},{"start":291.2,"end":295.2,"text":"所以當基層員警在第一時間以為只是行車糾紛報回來的時候"},{"start":295.2,"end":297.2,"text":"警政署馬上通報我們"},{"start":297.2,"end":301.2,"text":"那我們經過比對發現案官相關人士他是有黑套背景的"},{"start":301.2,"end":303.2,"text":"那在進一步的麻煩警政署"},{"start":303.2,"end":305.2,"text":"基層的同仁去調閱相關的監視錄影"},{"start":305.2,"end":308.2,"text":"但發現確實是一個組織犯罪的行為"},{"start":308.2,"end":313.2,"text":"所以這個案子也凸顯出我們不是只是讓基層員警去處理這個案子"},{"start":313.2,"end":317.2,"text":"透過警方內部的通報機制以及本局跟警方的通報機制"},{"start":317.2,"end":323.2,"text":"我們會用國安的角度來看待這些所謂跨國鎮壓案件的偵辦跟查查"},{"start":323.2,"end":325.2,"text":"那第三部分是法律的部分"},{"start":325.2,"end":327.2,"text":"法律的部分確實有一些限制"},{"start":327.2,"end":329.2,"text":"剛剛我也一再的跟委員說明"},{"start":329.2,"end":336.2,"text":"如果用的大概是刑法、傷害罪、暴力、恐嚇或是各知法或是組織犯罪"},{"start":336.2,"end":338.2,"text":"因為組織犯罪是重刑五年以上"},{"start":338.2,"end":341.2,"text":"所以台中的案子就有用到組織犯罪"},{"start":341.2,"end":344.2,"text":"那不過早上再跟委員說明報告的是"},{"start":344.2,"end":346.2,"text":"假如能夠有專法或是反滲透法"},{"start":346.2,"end":349.2,"text":"在這個跨國鎮壓的部分能夠加重刑責的話"},{"start":349.2,"end":351.2,"text":"那國安局的立場是支持的"},{"start":351.2,"end":354.2,"text":"那行政院已經有召會再做相關討論"},{"start":354.2,"end":358.2,"text":"我們會把我們國安的關切跟考量跟院方來做一些分享"},{"start":358.2,"end":361.2,"text":"好,因為接著下來其實是選舉快到"},{"start":361.2,"end":363.2,"text":"只是他最後的37天"},{"start":363.2,"end":366.2,"text":"其實我們還是要研防有更大規模的滲透"},{"start":366.2,"end":368.2,"text":"跟更大規模組織性的一些活動"},{"start":368.2,"end":372.2,"text":"那我想這個部分可能還是要請我們的國安局跟其他的跨部會"},{"start":372.2,"end":375.2,"text":"我們相關的部會其實要特別的防範這一點"},{"start":375.2,"end":377.2,"text":"對,我們有在處理"},{"start":377.2,"end":378.2,"text":"因為是人身安全的維護"},{"start":378.2,"end":380.2,"text":"因為這些警政署的職責"},{"start":380.2,"end":383.2,"text":"那他們對於一些特定候選人都有一些人身安全的保護"},{"start":383.2,"end":385.2,"text":"當然要尊重候選人意願"},{"start":385.2,"end":388.2,"text":"那第二部分是有一些跨境鎮壓"},{"start":388.2,"end":390.2,"text":"涉入到的都是黑幫"},{"start":390.2,"end":393.2,"text":"那這部分我們也會有一波的掃蕩"},{"start":393.2,"end":395.2,"text":"就是我剛剛說的組織性的一個活動"},{"start":395.2,"end":396.2,"text":"所以這個要小心"},{"start":396.2,"end":398.2,"text":"好,謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}