{"error":false,"id":["17165"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":17165,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17165","日期":"2025-12-31","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"黨團協商-2025123082","會議代碼:str":"立法院朝野黨團協商","屆":11,"會期":4,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"黨團協商","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"立法院朝野黨團協商"},"影片種類":"Full","開始時間":"2025-12-31T14:30:34+08:00","結束時間":"2025-12-31T16:02:00+08:00","影片長度":"01:31:26","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ea1053bf0f00000d75120ce8626eaddb32fd00d8c029a2fce5c8a17dfd77292ab55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2025-12-31T15:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院朝野黨團協商（事由：本院委員游顥等37人擬具「政黨及其附隨組織不當取得財產處理條例第四條及第三十四條條文修正草案」。）","委員名稱":"完整會議","委員發言時間":"14:30:34 - 16:02:00","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2025.9759687500002,"end":2028.6253437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2029.5365937500003,"end":2062.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2064.4678437500006,"end":2065.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2067.1678437500004,"end":2068.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2069.1590937500005,"end":2070.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2071.2009687500004,"end":2072.1628437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2073.1415937500005,"end":2074.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2075.50409375,"end":2081.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2081.6297187500004,"end":2084.1778437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2084.3972187500003,"end":2084.8865937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2085.6797187500006,"end":2090.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2090.80971875,"end":2097.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2098.0322187500005,"end":2101.1709687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2102.50409375,"end":2106.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2107.8028437500006,"end":2111.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2111.7684687500005,"end":2114.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2115.2615937500004,"end":2117.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2118.5859687500006,"end":2121.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2122.9903437500006,"end":2141.3672187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2142.9197187500004,"end":2159.8115937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2160.2165937500004,"end":2214.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2216.96721875,"end":2223.7340937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2224.0378437500003,"end":2224.6453437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2224.6453437500004,"end":2225.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2225.03346875,"end":2225.5565937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2226.07971875,"end":2226.8222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2227.1765937500004,"end":2228.2734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2228.59409375,"end":2229.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2230.16346875,"end":2234.3653437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2235.3103437500004,"end":2237.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2238.43221875,"end":2240.3728437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2240.82846875,"end":2243.7478437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2244.13596875,"end":2247.9159687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2248.30409375,"end":2251.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2251.4597187500003,"end":2253.4678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2253.9909687500003,"end":2257.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2257.83846875,"end":2259.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2259.93096875,"end":2262.6309687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2263.25534375,"end":2264.1159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2264.6053437500004,"end":2266.0397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2266.49534375,"end":2269.0603437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2269.51596875,"end":2272.4353437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2273.02596875,"end":2275.7090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2275.89471875,"end":2278.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2278.93221875,"end":2281.1765937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2281.75034375,"end":2284.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2285.8172187500004,"end":2286.6778437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2287.06596875,"end":2287.9265937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2288.63534375,"end":2289.5465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2289.69846875,"end":2290.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2291.1159687500003,"end":2292.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2292.95534375,"end":2295.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2296.3640937500004,"end":2299.0134687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2299.30034375,"end":2300.2115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2300.43096875,"end":2301.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2301.7978437500005,"end":2303.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2303.6540937500004,"end":2304.8015937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2305.1053437500004,"end":2306.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2306.9615937500002,"end":2308.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2309.30721875,"end":2309.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2310.7584687500002,"end":2313.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2314.23471875,"end":2316.9684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2317.66034375,"end":2321.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2321.6090937500003,"end":2323.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2324.00534375,"end":2324.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2325.15284375,"end":2326.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2326.51971875,"end":2328.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2329.2872187500006,"end":2331.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2332.1053437500004,"end":2333.0840937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2333.4890937500004,"end":2335.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2336.8809687500006,"end":2338.2478437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2338.45034375,"end":2339.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2339.9522187500006,"end":2340.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2341.47096875,"end":2344.8965937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2345.47034375,"end":2346.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2346.78659375,"end":2347.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2347.4784687500005,"end":2348.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2349.41909375,"end":2351.0222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2351.49471875,"end":2352.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2352.55784375,"end":2355.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2356.1015937500006,"end":2358.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2359.2403437500006,"end":2360.3034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2360.82659375,"end":2363.6784687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2364.0497187500005,"end":2365.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2365.75409375,"end":2367.2559687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2368.36971875,"end":2368.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2369.26409375,"end":2370.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2371.35659375,"end":2373.2128437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2373.2803437500006,"end":2374.0059687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2374.4278437500006,"end":2375.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2376.3347187500003,"end":2378.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2378.5790937500005,"end":2379.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2380.28346875,"end":2381.3972187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2381.75159375,"end":2383.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2383.65846875,"end":2387.7422187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2388.06284375,"end":2388.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2389.56471875,"end":2391.6403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2392.3153437500005,"end":2393.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2394.3065937500005,"end":2398.1034687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2398.7109687500006,"end":2401.1072187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2401.5965937500005,"end":2403.8747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2404.3134687500005,"end":2407.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2407.6209687500004,"end":2410.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2410.96221875,"end":2413.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2414.10096875,"end":2417.4590937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2417.7965937500003,"end":2420.6484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2421.2897187500002,"end":2421.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2422.0153437500003,"end":2422.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2422.04909375,"end":2422.8084687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2423.09534375,"end":2423.9053437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2424.15846875,"end":2425.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2425.49159375,"end":2426.7403437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2427.11159375,"end":2428.3434687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2428.79909375,"end":2430.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2431.0097187500005,"end":2432.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2432.54534375,"end":2433.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2434.1990937500004,"end":2437.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2438.68784375,"end":2440.2403437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2440.39221875,"end":2442.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2442.23159375,"end":2443.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2444.23971875,"end":2446.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2446.4334687500004,"end":2448.2897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2448.9647187500004,"end":2449.5215937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2450.0615937500006,"end":2455.1072187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2455.7822187500005,"end":2457.7734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2458.14471875,"end":2462.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2462.54909375,"end":2463.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2464.89471875,"end":2465.4684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2465.75534375,"end":2466.6159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2467.07159375,"end":2468.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2468.9784687500005,"end":2470.6659687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2470.8515937500006,"end":2472.9609687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2473.77096875,"end":2474.9522187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2475.4922187500006,"end":2477.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2477.44971875,"end":2478.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2478.51284375,"end":2480.2340937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2480.6053437500004,"end":2482.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2483.0184687500005,"end":2484.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2484.92534375,"end":2486.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2486.96721875,"end":2488.1990937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2488.3340937500006,"end":2493.3965937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2493.9197187500004,"end":2494.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2494.84784375,"end":2496.7547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2497.04159375,"end":2498.9147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2499.0497187500005,"end":2503.2009687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2503.4372187500003,"end":2504.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2505.1922187500004,"end":2507.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2507.7234687500004,"end":2508.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2508.29721875,"end":2510.5584687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2511.0984687500004,"end":2513.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2514.57471875,"end":2515.1484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2515.60409375,"end":2516.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2516.48159375,"end":2517.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2518.3378437500005,"end":2521.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2521.74659375,"end":2522.3203437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2522.6747187500005,"end":2524.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2524.6659687500005,"end":2526.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2526.74159375,"end":2527.5515937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2527.95659375,"end":2530.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2530.3190937500003,"end":2531.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2532.0740937500004,"end":2533.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2534.03159375,"end":2538.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2539.16159375,"end":2542.3340937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2542.63784375,"end":2543.4647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2544.0722187500005,"end":2545.9453437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2546.19846875,"end":2546.6540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2547.10971875,"end":2548.0378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2548.7128437500005,"end":2550.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2550.8728437500004,"end":2552.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2552.89784375,"end":2554.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2554.5515937500004,"end":2555.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2556.0703437500006,"end":2556.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2557.11659375,"end":2557.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2558.19659375,"end":2559.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2560.30596875,"end":2562.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2562.4490937500004,"end":2565.1490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2565.84096875,"end":2570.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2570.24534375,"end":2571.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2571.6628437500003,"end":2573.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2574.3965937500006,"end":2575.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2576.33721875,"end":2577.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2577.6872187500003,"end":2579.1384687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2579.9990937500006,"end":2582.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2582.4122187500006,"end":2583.9647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2584.28534375,"end":2584.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2585.43284375,"end":2588.7403437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2589.11159375,"end":2591.2547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2591.6934687500006,"end":2593.7184687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2594.17409375,"end":2595.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2596.1484687500006,"end":2599.1522187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2599.55721875,"end":2601.2615937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2601.8690937500005,"end":2603.1178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2603.4890937500004,"end":2607.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2607.43784375,"end":2608.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2609.4459687500002,"end":2610.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2610.55971875,"end":2611.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2611.5047187500004,"end":2612.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2613.34409375,"end":2617.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2617.8834687500002,"end":2618.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2618.89596875,"end":2622.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2622.99659375,"end":2625.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2626.5234687500006,"end":2632.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2633.00346875,"end":2634.8259687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2635.1465937500006,"end":2636.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2637.1715937500003,"end":2640.6815937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2640.9178437500004,"end":2641.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2642.40284375,"end":2644.0397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2644.27596875,"end":2647.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2647.98846875,"end":2650.1484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2650.3678437500002,"end":2651.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2651.2790937500004,"end":2653.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2653.4053437500006,"end":2654.8565937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2654.94096875,"end":2656.2740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2656.4090937500005,"end":2657.4890937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2657.5565937500005,"end":2658.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2659.3115937500006,"end":2664.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2664.64409375,"end":2667.0909687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2667.1415937500005,"end":2669.1328437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2669.4365937500006,"end":2671.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2671.79909375,"end":2675.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2675.9503437500007,"end":2678.2959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2679.10596875,"end":2681.5359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2681.82284375,"end":2682.1940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2682.6834687500004,"end":2685.0290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2685.4003437500005,"end":2686.4972187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2687.3747187500003,"end":2687.8134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2687.89784375,"end":2689.0115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2689.29846875,"end":2691.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2691.8972187500003,"end":2694.6647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2694.81659375,"end":2697.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2697.65159375,"end":2710.9490937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2712.8897187500006,"end":2714.6953437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2716.1803437500002,"end":2727.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2716.77096875,"end":2717.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2727.8747187500003,"end":2729.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2730.03471875,"end":2732.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2733.20721875,"end":2734.8272187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2736.59909375,"end":2739.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2740.04159375,"end":2740.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2741.4422187500004,"end":2743.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2743.95659375,"end":2746.5553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2746.9265937500004,"end":2753.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2753.6090937500003,"end":2756.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2757.4059687500003,"end":2760.9665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2761.72596875,"end":2762.9578437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2763.41346875,"end":2764.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2764.67909375,"end":2770.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2771.66534375,"end":2773.6228437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2774.8884687500004,"end":2776.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2777.04846875,"end":2780.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2780.89596875,"end":2783.2078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2784.1190937500005,"end":2791.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2792.3034687500003,"end":2798.4628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2799.2559687500006,"end":2805.4659687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2805.6853437500004,"end":2806.8497187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2807.1872187500003,"end":2808.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2808.72284375,"end":2810.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2811.25409375,"end":2816.1140937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2816.80596875,"end":2822.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2823.57284375,"end":2824.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2825.68221875,"end":2835.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2836.4990937500006,"end":2839.6884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2840.4140937500006,"end":2842.5740937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2843.5865937500002,"end":2844.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2845.98284375,"end":2851.0284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2851.7878437500003,"end":2861.0859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2861.6090937500003,"end":2864.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2865.0009687500005,"end":2871.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2873.87721875,"end":2873.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2873.89409375,"end":2874.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2877.5222187500003,"end":2957.0878437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2957.61096875,"end":2968.8834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2969.0184687500005,"end":3095.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3098.1628437500003,"end":3099.9347187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3099.9684687500003,"end":3100.0359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3100.6940937500003,"end":3101.3184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3101.3184687500006,"end":3103.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3103.56284375,"end":3107.4609687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3103.57971875,"end":3103.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3103.61346875,"end":3103.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3105.97596875,"end":3106.8028437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3107.4609687500006,"end":3107.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3107.66346875,"end":3110.8359687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3110.9034687500007,"end":3112.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3115.67909375,"end":3116.1178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3116.8434687500003,"end":3121.6697187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3121.7372187500005,"end":3133.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3134.05596875,"end":3138.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3138.9665937500004,"end":3141.0253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3141.36284375,"end":3143.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3143.9109687500004,"end":3146.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3146.72909375,"end":3148.6022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3148.8722187500007,"end":3151.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3151.9772187500002,"end":3155.8584687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3156.2634687500004,"end":3158.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3158.59221875,"end":3160.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3160.39784375,"end":3162.2878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3162.5409687500005,"end":3165.6797187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3165.9834687500006,"end":3169.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3170.1178437500002,"end":3171.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3171.61971875,"end":3173.4928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3173.71221875,"end":3176.5303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3176.80034375,"end":3178.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3178.84221875,"end":3181.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3182.6559687500003,"end":3183.0778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3183.5165937500005,"end":3185.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3186.5709687500002,"end":3188.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3189.01784375,"end":3190.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3191.66721875,"end":3194.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3195.2109687500006,"end":3197.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3198.2653437500003,"end":3199.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3199.26096875,"end":3200.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3201.31971875,"end":3201.8428437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3202.0115937500004,"end":3203.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3203.7497187500003,"end":3205.2009687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3205.8253437500007,"end":3208.9303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3209.26784375,"end":3209.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3210.5840937500006,"end":3217.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3218.8190937500003,"end":3222.4472187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3223.25721875,"end":3225.8728437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3226.6659687500005,"end":3231.8634687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3232.72409375,"end":3233.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3234.47909375,"end":3235.7784687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3236.21721875,"end":3239.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3239.2040937500005,"end":3242.9334687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3243.8278437500003,"end":3246.0215937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3246.7809687500003,"end":3252.1472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3252.83909375,"end":3255.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3255.8428437500006,"end":3263.9597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3264.8878437500007,"end":3266.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3268.22909375,"end":3271.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3272.32971875,"end":3274.6247187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3275.33346875,"end":3276.4303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3277.37534375,"end":3280.4297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3281.05409375,"end":3282.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3282.4715937500005,"end":3283.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3283.21409375,"end":3283.8047187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3284.26034375,"end":3285.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3285.1378437500007,"end":3289.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3289.9978437500004,"end":3292.1915937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3293.3222187500005,"end":3295.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3296.66346875,"end":3297.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3298.23284375,"end":3300.5447187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3301.30409375,"end":3302.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3302.70471875,"end":3306.6365937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3307.6659687500005,"end":3308.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3308.9315937500005,"end":3310.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3310.9734687500004,"end":3315.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3316.67721875,"end":3318.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3319.4615937500002,"end":3325.5534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3327.15659375,"end":3330.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3331.93221875,"end":3336.1678437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3336.6572187500005,"end":3342.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3343.3903437500003,"end":3404.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3404.96721875,"end":3405.6084687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3406.60409375,"end":3407.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3408.71346875,"end":3443.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3443.54346875,"end":3452.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3453.0272187500004,"end":3476.7703437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3476.85471875,"end":3513.7940937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3516.4772187500002,"end":3531.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3516.94971875,"end":3517.3884687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3531.9347187500007,"end":3532.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3533.58846875,"end":3539.2078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3540.01784375,"end":3540.7772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3541.18221875,"end":3577.9528437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3580.5009687500005,"end":3707.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3708.2784687500007,"end":3716.4628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3716.96909375,"end":3728.2078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3728.71409375,"end":3754.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3756.64221875,"end":3757.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3758.12721875,"end":3758.7178437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3759.1397187500006,"end":3761.1140937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3762.3797187500004,"end":3797.3278437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3797.49659375,"end":3822.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3823.2140937500008,"end":3834.0309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3834.4528437500003,"end":3849.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3849.6572187500005,"end":3868.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3868.3378437500005,"end":3870.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3871.1053437500004,"end":3904.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3905.0578437500008,"end":3943.6172187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3944.6803437500002,"end":3970.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3971.5622187500003,"end":4018.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4018.2722187500003,"end":4030.3884687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4030.8103437500004,"end":4107.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4107.96284375,"end":4127.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4128.19596875,"end":4133.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4136.73471875,"end":4166.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4166.147843750001,"end":4170.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4173.319718750001,"end":4173.792218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4176.559718750001,"end":4186.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4187.17409375,"end":4191.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4192.202843749999,"end":4195.071593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4195.42596875,"end":4206.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4207.120343750001,"end":4212.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4212.57096875,"end":4219.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4219.962218750001,"end":4222.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4222.89846875,"end":4234.542218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4235.08221875,"end":4246.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4246.55721875,"end":4253.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4254.640343749999,"end":4257.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4258.4540937500005,"end":4259.010968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4259.83784375,"end":4262.757218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4263.21284375,"end":4265.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4265.54159375,"end":4268.427218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4268.764718750001,"end":4269.692843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4270.65471875,"end":4276.9490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4277.421593749999,"end":4284.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4285.31909375,"end":4287.4959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4288.28909375,"end":4288.727843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4289.335343750001,"end":4291.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4291.98471875,"end":4295.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4296.591593749999,"end":4302.7509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4304.185343749999,"end":4308.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4309.38284375,"end":4322.612843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4322.69721875,"end":4346.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4347.11534375,"end":4353.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4353.52784375,"end":4357.628468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4357.814093749999,"end":4364.614718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4364.86784375,"end":4366.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4367.382218750001,"end":4370.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4370.79096875,"end":4383.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4383.58221875,"end":4391.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4392.4247187500005,"end":4400.288468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4400.710343750001,"end":4405.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4407.20721875,"end":4407.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4409.11409375,"end":4410.177218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4410.497843749999,"end":4413.265343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4413.501593749999,"end":4425.550343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4425.702218750001,"end":4426.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4426.444718750001,"end":4437.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4437.514718750001,"end":4441.767218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4441.93596875,"end":4443.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4443.454718749999,"end":4443.876593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4444.4334687499995,"end":4445.749718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4445.952218750001,"end":4447.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4448.07846875,"end":4450.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4450.87971875,"end":4451.149718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4452.499718749999,"end":4453.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4453.7822187500005,"end":4455.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4455.38534375,"end":4695.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4695.921593749999,"end":4702.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4702.55346875,"end":4709.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4709.64096875,"end":4710.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4710.90659375,"end":4766.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4767.555968750001,"end":4769.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4769.327843749999,"end":4769.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4769.3447187500005,"end":4770.880343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4770.694718750001,"end":4771.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4772.07846875,"end":4867.4559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4869.126593749999,"end":4890.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4892.059718750001,"end":4901.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4901.475968750001,"end":4913.1365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4913.67659375,"end":4929.555968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4930.28159375,"end":4948.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4949.82284375,"end":4951.780343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4956.927218750001,"end":4962.4959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4957.956593750001,"end":4958.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4960.8759687500005,"end":4960.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4961.12909375,"end":4961.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4962.597218750001,"end":4967.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4967.64284375,"end":4976.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4976.82284375,"end":4984.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4983.38721875,"end":4991.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4985.243468750001,"end":4986.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4987.589093750001,"end":4988.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4990.08659375,"end":4996.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4992.0272187499995,"end":4992.263468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4992.29721875,"end":4999.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4997.562218749999,"end":5001.460343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5000.83596875,"end":5003.654093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5003.704718749999,"end":5010.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5010.48846875,"end":5014.960343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5011.70346875,"end":5012.564093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5013.323468750001,"end":5037.5897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5014.960343750001,"end":5015.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5015.97284375,"end":5016.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5033.92784375,"end":5041.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5037.5897187499995,"end":5038.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5038.112843750001,"end":5039.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5039.142218749999,"end":5039.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5039.22659375,"end":5039.294093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5040.6103437500005,"end":5045.234093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5041.538468750001,"end":5044.069718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5045.234093749999,"end":5053.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5051.376593749999,"end":5051.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5051.41034375,"end":5051.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5051.91659375,"end":5051.9334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5053.030343750001,"end":5053.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5053.36784375,"end":5053.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5053.41846875,"end":5053.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5053.65471875,"end":5056.540343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5053.671593749999,"end":5054.616593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5054.616593750001,"end":5057.670968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5057.670968750001,"end":5058.464093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5058.835343750001,"end":5059.071593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5061.06284375,"end":5062.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5063.27346875,"end":5063.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5065.36596875,"end":5069.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5071.6434687500005,"end":5083.725968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5080.823468750001,"end":5080.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5080.84034375,"end":5083.4559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5083.4559687500005,"end":5083.8778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5083.725968750001,"end":5083.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5083.8778437500005,"end":5084.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5084.26596875,"end":5084.704718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5084.704718749999,"end":5084.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5084.77221875,"end":5084.805968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5084.805968750001,"end":5084.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5085.2615937499995,"end":5118.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5096.247218750001,"end":5100.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5114.286593750001,"end":5127.702218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5124.0740937499995,"end":5128.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5127.702218750001,"end":5161.6884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5128.967843750001,"end":5131.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5148.036593750001,"end":5148.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5148.07034375,"end":5148.087218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5148.087218750001,"end":5148.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5148.1884687500005,"end":5150.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5150.02784375,"end":5150.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5150.5340937500005,"end":5153.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5153.97659375,"end":5154.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5165.670968750001,"end":5168.202218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5168.202218750001,"end":5180.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5171.25659375,"end":5171.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5180.13284375,"end":5181.229718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5180.16659375,"end":5186.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5181.229718750001,"end":5186.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5186.07284375,"end":5186.106593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5189.3465937500005,"end":5203.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5203.33596875,"end":5207.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5207.6053437499995,"end":5207.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5207.74034375,"end":5216.245343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5209.529093749999,"end":5209.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5210.372843749999,"end":5210.524718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5216.4647187499995,"end":5221.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5221.965968750001,"end":5231.939093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5225.526593750001,"end":5225.999093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5226.032843749999,"end":5226.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5226.977843750001,"end":5227.0115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5232.040343750001,"end":5232.462218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5232.95159375,"end":5233.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5234.95971875,"end":5238.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5239.00971875,"end":5239.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5240.3934687500005,"end":5240.950343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5241.3553437499995,"end":5245.067843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5245.304093750001,"end":5251.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5252.44221875,"end":5254.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5254.720343749999,"end":5263.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5263.579718749999,"end":5266.060343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5266.33034375,"end":5267.9334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5269.823468750001,"end":5270.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5271.173468749999,"end":5274.075968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5274.413468750001,"end":5276.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5277.872843749999,"end":5280.555968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5278.0584687499995,"end":5278.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5280.67409375,"end":5281.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5282.327843749999,"end":5286.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5286.546593749999,"end":5288.099093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5288.95971875,"end":5290.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5291.5584687499995,"end":5292.182843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5293.161593750001,"end":5296.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5296.57034375,"end":5297.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5297.329718749999,"end":5301.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5301.61596875,"end":5305.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5305.56471875,"end":5306.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5307.28596875,"end":5309.749718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5310.036593750001,"end":5312.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5313.63096875,"end":5314.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5314.592843750001,"end":5316.280343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5318.32221875,"end":5318.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5319.43596875,"end":5323.064093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5323.41846875,"end":5324.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5324.63346875,"end":5331.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5331.80534375,"end":5334.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5334.6572187500005,"end":5335.8553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5336.7665937500005,"end":5337.407843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5338.97721875,"end":5340.647843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5341.05284375,"end":5342.6728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5343.364718750001,"end":5345.710343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5347.920968750001,"end":5356.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5357.421593749999,"end":5358.687218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5359.260968750001,"end":5364.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5366.63534375,"end":5366.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5367.411593750001,"end":5369.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5369.622218750001,"end":5375.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5376.692843750001,"end":5378.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5379.02159375,"end":5381.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5382.80159375,"end":5383.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5384.35409375,"end":5386.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5387.02034375,"end":5390.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5391.036593750001,"end":5392.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5393.16284375,"end":5395.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5395.6434687500005,"end":5396.234093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5396.335343750001,"end":5397.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5398.309718750001,"end":5400.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5400.267218749999,"end":5401.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5401.83659375,"end":5403.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5405.009093750001,"end":5405.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5405.700968749999,"end":5409.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5409.6834687499995,"end":5414.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5414.475968750001,"end":5415.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5416.36596875,"end":5417.327843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5418.0028437500005,"end":5422.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5422.778468750001,"end":5423.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5424.16221875,"end":5425.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5425.815968750001,"end":5427.182843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5427.840968750001,"end":5433.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5434.169093750001,"end":5438.522843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5439.029093749999,"end":5440.109093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5440.9022187499995,"end":5442.370343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5445.323468750001,"end":5453.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5457.38909375,"end":5458.013468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5458.97534375,"end":5471.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5461.50659375,"end":5466.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5471.96909375,"end":5472.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5472.407843749999,"end":5475.90096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":2026.004,"end":2027.395,"text":"好 那今天的會議開始"},{"start":2029.588,"end":2056.249,"text":"那今天協商的主題是本院委員游浩等37人凝聚政黨及其附隨組織不當取得財產處理條例第4條及第34條條文修正草案本案於114年12月2日本院第11屆第4會期第11次會議決議自委員會抽出進付二讀並由國民黨黨團負責召集協商原安排於本次會議進行黨團協商"},{"start":2058.351,"end":2084.693,"text":"我們先介紹在場委員那首先范雲委員陳培鈺委員張雅玲委員鍾嘉斌委員游皓委員張祺凱委員那再介紹本市協商主題各相關機關列席代表黨產會主任委員林峰正主委"},{"start":2085.694,"end":2114.101,"text":"然后财政部国产署接收保管组游家宇组长内政部合作及人民团体师叶昭宏专门委员交通部观光署黄和廷副署长国防部政治作战局文宣新战处严瑞宏科长教育部秘书处戴玉平专门委员终身教育师王亚林科长"},{"start":2115.376,"end":2140.802,"text":"法務部謝志明參事司法院民事廳廖佩玲法官那為立協商進度那我們就由各黨團直接針對條文分別表示意見那如果機關補充意見的話再行說明那我們接下來我們就先針對第4條我們開始來討論那我們先請提案委員先說明 謝謝"},{"start":2143.392,"end":2159.399,"text":"OK 謝謝強哥那本期等37人提案政黨及附屬組織不當取得財產處理條例第4條及第30條條文修正草案來做說明那現在第4條的部分那在這條的修法的重點就是"},{"start":2160.299,"end":2179.827,"text":"因為救火團是公益組織它也是笑死但是問題是救火團公益組織是大家心中的一個既定的事實那它不僅是救災防疫的起先鋒也是模範生那同樣的在這一條的部分必須要在這裡提出修正因為黨產條例不當條例它的這個定義過寬導致行政機關的不當擴權還侵害到救火團等公益團體"},{"start":2186.409,"end":2214.66,"text":"所以主張修正讓法律回歸到法治精神因此修正的第四條停止無限擴大附屬於組織的定義要還給民間團體公益團體的公道所以在這裡的話修法重點排除國家定定稱隸屬於國家則不在此限尤其是在當然條例的立法目的在處理政黨財產不應該混淆國家及政黨財產所以在這個部分修法重點是還引以來定一個更明確的內容"},{"start":2216.991,"end":2233.761,"text":"好 那我們現在就開放來表示意見我們就按照黨團的順序好了就是輪流來 先請鍾嘉賓委員好 謝謝主席其實以前的救國團在我們那個年代叫做中國反共青年救國團"},{"start":2235.376,"end":2262.03,"text":"曾幾何時這個反共不見了但是還有叫中國但是現在大家講的也不叫做中國救國團如果你在現在台灣社會說我是中國救國團的活動成員人家懷疑說你是不是來這邊兩岸交流的現在簡稱叫做救國團但是事實上它的本質從它當年中國青年反共救國團中國青年反共救國團"},{"start":2263.891,"end":2292.019,"text":"這幾個字就是它的設置的本體這跟中國國民黨叫做中國一樣都有個中國到現在中國國民黨還是要中國啊中國國民黨有跟中國青年反共救國團一樣把中國拿掉 把反共拿掉嗎現在只敢說青年救國團啊但是我們問題不在於它的名稱而已這個團體在當年整個學校青年還是被限制"},{"start":2292.964,"end":2298.39,"text":"沒有辦法參加課外活動的時候只有他獨佔可以提供青年在課堂以外的其他我們現在認為各種的戶外啊體驗啊什麼戰鬥營啊西壓縱軸啦這些"},{"start":2310.785,"end":2335.035,"text":"都是在當時威權統治時期中國國民黨作為一個統治的一個集團它對於校園青年的一個控制手段當然隨著時代的變遷救國團應該用全稱中國青年反共救國團它存在著的 它使用的房舍這個我很清楚啊我曾經在屏東縣政府任職當副縣長"},{"start":2336.926,"end":2354.699,"text":"我們屏東縣的屏東公園範圍內就一座當時的中國青年反共救國團的膚色我看過它的土地房屋的登記上面就很清楚的寫著在當年就是登記給中國青年反共救國團"},{"start":2356.141,"end":2367.055,"text":"屏東縣政府費盡了九牛二虎之力才把他要回來而且還跟救國團還要跟他討論一個條件讓他有充裕的時間另外密地興建"},{"start":2368.567,"end":2397.363,"text":"當然這些年來的變化曾經參與過這個組織的青年現在大概都已經有的是已經退休了也在從本身很多我都認識他都在從事社會公益所以我這邊呢要對剛剛有委員的表達我做一點點的小小的做一個修正參與這個組織的很多人都在從事公益但是這個組織不是公益組織我再強調一次"},{"start":2399.853,"end":2419.792,"text":"參與這個組織的很多青年後來都有持續在從事公益但是從事公益的是這些熱血青年不是這個中國青年反共救國團他後來這些成員參與的公益活動不能改變這個組織在威權統治時期不法侵佔國家的資產的事實"},{"start":2421.343,"end":2448.297,"text":"而且直到了解嚴前還持續的包括在屏東縣我們墾丁地區國家公園範圍內都有辦法取得土地興建所謂的青年活動中心這個在威權時期啊能夠在國家公園範圍內能夠蓋出那樣建築物的啊大概除了中國青年反共救國團大概不做他人第二想啊"},{"start":2449.048,"end":2472.836,"text":"所以呢歷史也證明這個組織他就是國民黨的一個覆水組織那今天要透過修法的方式想把他這個組織過去曾經侵占的國家資產抹煞證明這是沒有用的我們特別要提醒一下我知道油耗委員對於這個組織有一份很深刻的情感"},{"start":2473.786,"end":2502.469,"text":"我何嘗不是我們在我們的學生時期能夠參加的戶外的 課外的活動就只有他辦的我們才能參加其他的沒有機會參加甚至我們出了社會還會去參加他辦的不管是語言 插花 生活的這種各種各式各樣的才藝的課程很多社會青年都有在參加但這些仍然不能抹煞他曾經是威權政黨中國國民黨的附隨組織"},{"start":2503.53,"end":2525.981,"text":"我們今天看條文他寫著本來的條文是寫什麼覆水組織只獨立存在而由政黨實質控制其人事財務或業務經營的法人或是由曾由政黨實質控制其人事財務或業務經營這裡面用的是或"},{"start":2526.801,"end":2550.237,"text":"在法律上 貨的意思是說不管是人事啊 財務啊 或者業務啊只要其中一項是由政黨實質控制或影響的就構成了它的覆水組織這個要件相當的 相對是較寬廣的不然問問看 中國青年反共救國團歷任的主任是由誰來指派他的人事辦拿到中國國民黨的黨務會議去決定"},{"start":2552.912,"end":2578.948,"text":"答案都很清楚過去我們的這個相關的政府呢在做這樣的一個不讓黨產組織的時候呢都已經清查過了今天這個修正條文呢把它改成集那以後要證明他是附屬於組織啊就必須是人事財務及業務都受政黨控制的才算數那這樣的話誰會跑掉不是只有救國團啦婦聯會也跑掉啦"},{"start":2580.031,"end":2608.558,"text":"拿掉的把這個貨改成集其實影響的不是侵佔16億的中國青年反共救團影響的是包括了婦聯會他300多億的資產以後都不用歸還給國家所以可能油耗委員以為在幫救國團做善事啊他在幫婦聯會解套啊所以我們要請你看一看這個文字的修改一字之格只改了兩個字他的效果這麼宏大"},{"start":2609.505,"end":2625.582,"text":"或許提案委員認為說但曾隸屬於國家者不在此縣這不就自證其罪嗎什麼叫做曾經隸屬於國家者你曾經隸屬的國家當年是黨國不分的"},{"start":2626.57,"end":2655.579,"text":"那你說你是隸屬於國家卻不是政黨的覆水組織這剛好自證其有謬誤嘛你如果是附著於黨國一體的國家體制你就是當時黨國一體中國國民黨的覆水組織這還用說嗎所以加這個文字啊不要說是話蛇添足啊剛好是自證己罪啊所以呢我在這裡奉勸提案委員看清楚你所要做的你所要幫的跟你實際上達成的完全是兩碼子事"},{"start":2656.539,"end":2678.102,"text":"而且它的一個附帶的外溢效果還幫婦聯會300多億欠國家的資產不用規範我想這一點是非常的明確請提案委員好好想一想您的青春熱血我們都肯定救國團這個組織曾經參與過的青年或者現在的中年或老年他們所從事的公益我們絕不抹煞"},{"start":2679.161,"end":2699.336,"text":"我過去擔任副縣長期間也曾經被中國青年反共救國團聘為榮譽顧問因為他們這些成員在社會上很多在從事公益但是我要強調的成員從事社會公益不能抹煞這個組織本身就是一個威權政黨的覆水組織"},{"start":2700.177,"end":2710.888,"text":"也不能改變他們目前很多的資產是受當年是國家的資產用一個不當的手段平白無故的移轉給這個覆水組織以上說明我們請民眾黨團"},{"start":2716.846,"end":2734.478,"text":"救國團應該是很多台灣民眾非常甜美的回憶包括剛剛嘉賓也講我們年輕都參加過非常多的這個活動嘉賓剛才也承認去參加救國團的成員很多人現在都在做公益我跟他進一步講救國團本身也是做公益"},{"start":2736.676,"end":2760.727,"text":"最有名的在疫情發生的這個期間救火團幫各個縣市 這個沒有什麼藍綠之北你像那時候的台北市政府 台北市政府救火團幫了非常多的忙 包括建壇活動中心那時候就變成台北市的防疫旅館另外最近這一兩年的這個風災 我了解的光是丹納斯造成的這個嘉義跟台南那麼大的災情"},{"start":2762.052,"end":2782.628,"text":"揪團都有去幫忙 花蓮大地震他們都有去 他們本身就是一個公益團體他辦了非常多的活動 跟公益也有關係我要強調 轉型正義不應該是勝利者的正義更不要變成是報復或者是清算真正的轉型正義"},{"start":2784.778,"end":2789.42,"text":"這個組織當然不會屬於任何這個政黨包括你剛講不屬於國民黨以後也不會變成是民進黨的附屬的這個組織對於過去有任何貢獻有公益的這個團體跟組織不只是救國團"},{"start":2799.661,"end":2822.608,"text":"這個歷史是不能夠去抹滅的台灣民眾黨非常清楚我們認為要正義的轉型要符合三個條件三個條件第一個他要符合社會公義第二個他要轉型為非營利第三個就很重要也是民進黨一直在提的他應該以後不屬於任何政黨不屬於國民黨也不屬於民進黨不屬於任何的政黨"},{"start":2823.598,"end":2850.292,"text":"我們就要提醒的是黨產條例實施以來是不是有衍生了一些行政機關不當的擴權甚至侵賴到某些機關他本來做的這個公益反而被緊縮了這對台灣不是一件好事情你像救國團確實我們剛剛這樣一路談下來他也確實做了很多很多的公益可是這段時間確實他在推動跟對人民有利的跟公益跟活動上面今天風箏也在現場"},{"start":2852.12,"end":2871.454,"text":"當場委員會對他們嚴格的規範實際上你很清楚看得出來很多那種公益的推動上是受到很大影響的所以今天台灣民眾黨非常明確的表達對於救國團只要它符合剛剛講的那三個條件它如果是可以符合社會公益的轉型為非營利不屬於任何政黨我們就會支持 謝謝好 六號委員"},{"start":2877.54,"end":2899.558,"text":"那我先講謝謝那謝謝民眾黨黨團的對於救國團的一個就是支持同樣的在這裡的話也要回復一下這個提案的部分那當然我知道鍾嘉斌幹事長跟鍾江斌委員對於這個部分救國團的提案來講的話也是有矛盾複雜的情緒"},{"start":2900.999,"end":2917.475,"text":"因為在宗家兵幹事長必須要講的這個部分還明明就是清算但是他必須要說救國團他不是公益組織那大家來做公益但是宗家兵委員在屏東救國團也擔任多年的指導委員跟副主任委員"},{"start":2918.235,"end":2938.683,"text":"所以說現在又轉為顧問了所以說在地方上要跟救國團密切的結合但是在台北當幹事長卻必須要說救國團不是公益組織但是救國團過去在防疫期間救災期間還其實在整個公益的形象其實在現在的救國團的各鄉鎮委員會的會長"},{"start":2940.724,"end":2963.082,"text":"早就已經有藍有綠那所以就是一個公益組織就是一個社團法人那剛才有提到其實甚至在不當黨產會的發言人現在的監察委員施警方過去也曾擔任救火團墾丁七年活動中心的主任委員那所以說今天在認定一個公益團體那在這個政黨及其附會組織的這個當場條例來講"},{"start":2965.6,"end":2990.114,"text":"那如果說他在所謂的在人事財務及業務還有這個部分三項兼具那才能夠證明他是一個完全緊密那其實今天來講這個部分現行的貨那其實就已經是非常的無限擴大他的定義跟他的權利所以今天來講在法條的處理上必須要嚴謹"},{"start":2991.215,"end":3007.051,"text":"所以說今天來講這個文字上的糾正文字上的修正是應該不僅是還給舊國團公道更是還給民間團體公道那同樣的在現在我們在看舊國團他其實他本來就是一個公益組織公益團體沒錯"},{"start":3008.212,"end":3024.611,"text":"不管許多的民進黨的委員其實也都非常的認同救國團不管是許智傑委員也擔任高雄市的指導委員多年包括林黛華委員也擔任指導委員多年包括基隆市的童子委議長也擔任基隆市的指導委員多年"},{"start":3025.111,"end":3043.407,"text":"在今年救火團的團慶其實包括周春米、黃偉哲還有高雄市的康育成議長還有澎湖縣的陳光復還有縣長還有包括台中市想要選台中市的何新淳、立委其實也都向救火團表達祝賀"},{"start":3044.608,"end":3064.527,"text":"那其實在今天來講我們回歸到一個社會現實今天一個公益組織公益團體硬是要扣上他的這個黨產之名甚至今天在處理救國團的法案今天一下要加個婦聯會改天要再加一個還有各個組織的時候那其實那其實是在模糊焦點所以說還是回頭來講"},{"start":3066.409,"end":3095.607,"text":"當然嘉賓幹事長嘉賓兄有複雜的情緒因為幹事長跟立委的身份當然還是有點衝突但是回頭來講救國團的組織在公益的形象以及要回歸他的一個正義跟正當性其實公益不能等那所以才提案這個部分其實也希望民進黨的委員在這裡拋下意識形態其實大家也都知道救國團過去對社會的付出其實一起來支持那也才是還公益團體一個公道"},{"start":3098.2,"end":3104.184,"text":"那請主管機關說明我先表達基本立場 我反對整個修法的提案"},{"start":3121.94,"end":3151.086,"text":"我認為說這個案子因為牽涉到大法官釋字793號所認同的轉型正義的重要的憲政的價值這樣的修法的提案會顛覆這樣的重要的社會公義跟憲政的價值所以這樣的提案應該要回到委員會去讓更多的人可以來參與討論讓社會更多人能夠了解到這個修法的提案會影響到什麼"},{"start":3152.251,"end":3181.41,"text":"這才是正辦 而不是說就近乎二讀然後我們連討論的機會都沒有各個委員會完全都沒有插手的餘地大家稀里糊塗就把它表決過了人多就是贏我想不是 很多道理不是說去用表決就可以表決出來接下來我想表達一下舊國團其實是中國國民黨來台灣以後在中改會時期很早期成立的在黨內成立的一個組織它所有的組織的過程通通是黨決定的"},{"start":3182.694,"end":3196.702,"text":"那他要做的工作都是黨來指導那所需要的財務通通由國家來支應所以錢都是國家的那他從事什麼工作呢表面上好像從事青年活動實質上大家都知道他在國內"},{"start":3198.331,"end":3223.576,"text":"學校裡面從事政治偵訪許多現在還是立法院委員們也都曾經被偵訪過都有這個歷史而且檔案我們都已經現在都揭露了都看到了不只是國內還有國外的部分也是繼續從事這樣的工作所以明的是一套 暗的是一套那他現在的問題出在於說好 你說他曾經隸屬於國家那請問一下隸屬於國家他離開國家以後"},{"start":3226.684,"end":3242.268,"text":"他的財務沒有交回來沒有清算沒有交回來繼續還是救國人在用那隸屬於國家那不是更應該是國家的嗎這財務不是國家譬如說黨產會是這個正式成立的法定的機關如果有一天黨產會關門了那這個財產黨產會的主委可以帶走嗎"},{"start":3246.923,"end":3265.892,"text":"當然不可以啊當然財務要留下來留給國家嘛結果呢狀況最嚴重的就是這個他說他曾經隸屬於國家對他在成立到民國58年之前隸屬於國防部我們先不說這個隸屬是不是黑機關先不討論這個那他的財務就是國家的嘛58年以後他離開國家"},{"start":3268.257,"end":3275.884,"text":"可是他才會沒有交回來我們現在在做的就是這件事情我們在七年前認定救國團是國民黨的覆水組織"},{"start":3277.446,"end":3306.113,"text":"行政法院在去年8月1號它其實審得非常久審得超過6年它判我們贏也就是說我們認定的事實適用的法律都沒有問題那當然現在救火團上訴到最高行政法院難道不能等最高行政法院給一個判決嗎在急什麼讓法院有一個獨立審判的空間不好嗎那後面的這個不當取得財產要交回來國家這一段我們也充分的舉證"},{"start":3307.677,"end":3329.533,"text":"我們也做出處分我們也願意接受法院的審判如果現在用這樣的修法的方式來躲避公正的法院的審判我覺得這個沒有辦法跟全民交代所以我反對這全部這一條的修法以上 謝謝好 那請第二輪派培育憲嗎你剛剛先舉手"},{"start":3331.997,"end":3356.073,"text":"好 我認為剛剛尤浩委員私自揣測本黨團幹事長的心理小劇場實在是有點太過分了我真的認為你應該要公開道歉那至於救國團到底跟國民黨有什麼關係如果國民黨現在要公開說救國團是別人做的事情跟我都沒關係那你們就公開說 大方的說 好好的說告訴全台灣人民"},{"start":3356.934,"end":3368.803,"text":"救國團跟你們國民黨沒有關係有好你敢不敢講如果你敢講出來我們就相信你不是為了特定政黨你不是為了國民黨自己的利益你更不是為了照顧李乾隆給你的指示李乾隆說什麼他說啊拜會你們國民黨團他說"},{"start":3374.688,"end":3385.556,"text":"針對這個連署社會的罰則也就是這個郭台銘條款助理費除罪 陳玉珍提了 牛許廷也提了再來黨產條例要排除適用救國團等議案中國時報你們愛好的報紙說的12月2號有這個新聞如果他跟你們國民黨一點都沒有關係為什麼李乾隆要對你們下達這個指令"},{"start":3394.062,"end":3405.359,"text":"他甚至還說了來游浩文念給你聽你很乖啦都有聽你們的那個副主席交代啦他說啊一旦救國團解套對你們藍軍後續在陸空戰會有助益這一講欸這令中國時報嚇欸"},{"start":3408.752,"end":3428.974,"text":"那你現在就大大方方的告訴大家沒有沒有我要反對我們副主席說的救國團跟我們國民黨沒有關係他不是我們國民黨的附隨組織你甚至敢不敢講你們救國團在過去黨國一家的年代有沒有拿來前置思想控制言論監管所有大學生中學生"},{"start":3429.835,"end":3448.582,"text":"有沒有幫你們黨服務拿的錢是不是國家的錢人事是不是你們安排的你都不敢正面回應啊你對於相關的修法你看都不看你坐在這裡你真的好意思講你還要好意思說你是公益救國團真圖利假公益啦你好意思說那我再告訴大家剛剛嘉賓幹事長講了400億怎麼來大家不要只有以為只有救國團"},{"start":3453.624,"end":3474.308,"text":"婦聯會的錢會一併回來耶 400億可以做多少事情你們不是要扶國立民嗎 各位兩位在野黨的朋友什麼叫扶國立民 就是造福你國民黨 遊歷你民眾黨啦 400億可以做什麼熱的營養午餐 跪黨的黃國昌說要給小孩吃熱的還有生育補助 育兒津貼 T pass 假牙補助 婚育宅 學費補助這些都可以拿錢 你們本來應該要吐出來的錢"},{"start":3477.37,"end":3492.672,"text":"剛剛行政機關已經講得很清楚了為什麼不能再等法院判決呢為什麼這麼無恥要反改革這件事情我真的不知道你是不是聽了李乾隆的話聽了鄭麗文的話所以你們就必須要做這個事情所以由郵號你來提案我完全不知道正當性是什麼"},{"start":3493.192,"end":3497.736,"text":"所以我就期待你們國民黨民眾黨有人敢公開說救國團不是你們國民黨的附隨組織你們拋棄了你們曾經做過的壞事你們忘卻了國民黨做過對台灣人壓迫的歷史你們228不肯記戒嚴不肯記現在連救國團你們都要拋棄了我真的很佩服你們的歷史觀果然非常了不起與眾不同"},{"start":3516.539,"end":3538.939,"text":"我們今天在談的是黨產條例的修正今天連鋒鄭林主委在這邊你代表是不當黨產處理委員委員會的主委嘛 對不對你剛也承認啊舊國團在民國41年成立的時候他是隸屬在國防部啊那這個屬於讓國防部 那這政府來處理為什麼是黨產會來處理這個事呢第二個也很重要 你是名律師耶"},{"start":3540.06,"end":3560.695,"text":"他救火團他上最高行政法院訴訟當然他可以窮盡所有的方法去爭取他繼續做公益啊這個沒有沒有沒有衝突啊更重要的我剛講過台灣民眾黨的三大主張裡面第三個很重要就是他以後不只是非營業營利化他最重要的就是以後不要屬於任何這個政黨嘛"},{"start":3561.596,"end":3576.785,"text":"而且以後政府還是可以監督他啊他如果真的以後屬於任何政黨例如說都是在幫國民黨或是在幫民進黨人民會有意見啊所以台灣民眾黨的態度非常清楚落實三大原則他一定不能屬於任何政黨而且加強監督 謝謝"},{"start":3580.529,"end":3595.422,"text":"就政黨歌一次嘛對不對對好 政黨歌一次那當然說那個我也滿佩服剛才陳培委員所提到的但是他可能沒有做好功課都不好意思所以說宗教兵委員先迴避了"},{"start":3595.882,"end":3623.235,"text":"所以因為我這是113年6月5號對啊 那個幹事長沒關係 因為我113年6月5號所提的一個提案那他呢 兩個月前的報導還來說我是受了李乾隆那個副主席的指示所以這個時工措置這個相差一年多對 對 對那所以說這是2024年6月5號提的提案喔所以說你可能要看清楚提案日期喔"},{"start":3623.795,"end":3639.948,"text":"所以說今天來講但是我還是體諒啦沒關係啦那個什麼那剛才主委有提的因為主委畢竟有他的立場在啦那我們必須還是要講可是今天來講在這個救國團的清算的部分那這個是他已經成為民間團體的這30年"},{"start":3642.27,"end":3662.401,"text":"那這些的財產為什麼他們辦活動這些救火團不管是志工大家投入的捐獻辦活動所剩下的剩餘的部分但是現在通通都要受到一個不當會的一個充公所以說在這樣子的一個過程中我相信全民都看得很清楚"},{"start":3663.081,"end":3676.621,"text":"救護團他的形象他的角色他現在的功能以及包括他在這30年來他所存到的不管是各縣市團委會他所剩下的盈餘現在全部都要受到這個黨場會這邊來去管控甚至這30年來"},{"start":3679.945,"end":3704.7,"text":"還都要受到這樣子的財產的限制甚至沒收所以說今天來講剛才陳委員也一直在提到我也不知道過去是因為你沒有參加到救國團還是到底是什麼樣的一個印象但是其實在現在這十幾二十年來不管是鍾嘉斌委員還有包括剛才說許志業委員也包括林楚英委員蔡思英委員其實許多的委員他們其實在救國團的參與上"},{"start":3706.361,"end":3726.833,"text":"我們指定了宗家兵委員當副組委國民黨指定了宗家兵幹事長當屏東縣黨部的指導委員如果說今天來講舊國團他不是一個公益團體 備受認同為什麼連台中市的何新存委員都要跟他表達祝賀呢"},{"start":3727.353,"end":3754.244,"text":"所以其實大家都很清楚那我覺得今天要還救國團一個公道本來就是應該的那在接下來拉哩拉扎再加上了許多的各個團體啊還都要把他說這個法案通過一下說復聯一下說救總一下是不是連總統你們都要說進來所以我是覺得啊就事論事今天我們處理救國團就應該回歸問題甚至就不要再做其他的前途謝謝"},{"start":3757.25,"end":3777.9,"text":"請范雲委員那個我想那個國民黨這邊一直還有那個民眾黨一直說他是公益團體今天早上我已經講了請告訴我哪一個公益團體就是從國家可以取得這麼大量的土地"},{"start":3778.68,"end":3807.515,"text":"根據就是資訊他有61筆土地及建物我如果作為記錄要念給大家聽的話光我這邊找到的就是宜蘭縣金六節土地金門青年活動中心台北市中山區大池街土地桃園市團委會然後今天早上念的日月潭青年活動中心阿里山青年活動中心以下都是青年活動中心有復興園林曾文梅山墾丁台東天翔澎湖"},{"start":3808.135,"end":3833.771,"text":"花蓮學院 圓山莊 八菱山莊前面還有彰化縣團委會 嘉義團委會南投縣團委會 金山青年活動中心還有桃園眷舍苗栗縣團委會台北市張老師文化門市我要講的是做公益當然可以我這裡在婦女新知基金會也做過公益他做了非常多事性別工作平等法 很多法都他推的他到現在還在租房子"},{"start":3834.911,"end":3848.959,"text":"所以為什麼這個組織就是可以有這麼多的土地你要回來講歷史嘛他哪一年轉型成教育公益團體的1989年尤浩你可能年紀比較年輕那時候國會全面改選了沒有"},{"start":3849.899,"end":3868.599,"text":"還沒有嗎國會是1992年改選還沒有民主化的時候是用動員勘斷實習人民團體組織法他率先就把自己漂白變成教育公益團體財團法人可是我們今天要問的是黨產條例就是要處理這歷史的不正義那剛剛主委已經講了"},{"start":3872.482,"end":3890.535,"text":"複隨組織就看人事跟財務由浩跟主席羅志強讀一下歷史他什麼時候成立是蔣介石總統在1952年3月29號發表一個青年書然後當年要成立中國青年反共救國團"},{"start":3891.215,"end":3903.83,"text":"他指定誰他的兒子蔣經國作為第一任主任你說他隸屬於國防部他是隸屬於國防部政治部同時也在國民黨知識青年黨部組織之下"},{"start":3905.157,"end":3927.295,"text":"所以這個是人事還有財務都是就是黨國一家黨跟國指定的那他在學校裡面校長是常務委員訓導主任是秘書所以當我們要講校園民主化的時候講的是黨政軍團退出校園因為你要當校長就得當他的常務委員"},{"start":3927.995,"end":3942.591,"text":"那你說他現在已經跟他無關了請問游浩知道現在的主任是誰嗎葛永光葛永光的背景你知道嗎我當年在台大的時候他就專門就是在做國民黨的北支清書記長"},{"start":3944.744,"end":3970.584,"text":"兼台大國發所的教授所以這個人那他的老婆是誰是你們國民黨2020年的不分區所以你要告訴我說他今天回歸民間宗嘉賓只是他在地方工作做個指導你們那他就算你要說宗嘉賓得到什麼好處他不就是為了國家這些好處他也不要嗎所以我的意思是說我們當年在念高中的時候"},{"start":3971.665,"end":3999.608,"text":"全國只有舊國團一個可以進入高中讓大家參加旅遊活動所以我高中的時候的確也參加這些地方我大概一半都去了中橫我也走了就是那個什麼東海岸也走過戰鬥營也參加過因為你是唯一壟斷性讓青年參加活動的組織嘛如果不參加舊國團的活動沒有辦法去住那些山莊那都是在全國最好的高山顯見的景點那今天這些東西難道不是應該國家的嗎"},{"start":4000.549,"end":4029.749,"text":"你這個團你有本事你自己做公益嗎我們婦女薪資基金會有哪塊土地是國家給的嗎沒有嘛那你今天如果是黑熊來說我為大家做公益民進黨修法讓他有這個不被罵死了對不對他也是在為國家那你今天憑什麼擁有這些國家的土地建物你就黨產這個就是要你歸還你說要和解要有真相不要再享受特權"},{"start":4030.889,"end":4059.625,"text":"那未來你們要讓葛永光繼續當主任那是你們的事情可是他就應該要歸還所以不要把台灣沒有民主化前1989年自己去漂白的教育公益團體來騙我們大家我們這些人可能張雅玲陳培沒有參加過救國團我們當年都知道救國團怎麼一回事他就是壟斷性的做政治工作然後讓青年上山下海儘管去就是"},{"start":4061.446,"end":4075.422,"text":"就是不要來反國民黨是最好的活動那教官這些大家關係都非常的好那所以我想今天轉型正義就是講的是不要有特權給真相請大家不要呼嚨不要拿地方的哪個委員"},{"start":4076.323,"end":4100.362,"text":"就是在你們的請求下那他就是協助一下或是擔任一個掛名的指導來講那今天更證明民進黨並沒有要為自己的好處這是國家的那請大家告訴大家就是不要再有特權而且你這句話非常的可怕曾經隸屬於國家者就不在此縣耶那請問你這有沒有包含婦聯會"},{"start":4101.883,"end":4126.699,"text":"那前面講的就是附隨組織的定義後面只要有一天曾經屬於國家的那些都不算了曾經是就是是黨國一體的時候拿到的土地就是控制的人士都不算數那我們這整個轉型正義都被你因為多數翻了你如果能辯論為什麼不去委員會好好辯論清楚要這樣子近乎二讀那選在這個"},{"start":4128.46,"end":4152.995,"text":"過年的前一天送給全國青年的大禮嗎就是繼續霸佔國家的財產以上那真的沒有辦法接受就是國民黨在還有那個也應該問一下黃國昌黃國昌就是說我們這個主委根本也不是民進黨的對不對是時代力量認識黃國昌時代力量所不是一起要轉型正義嗎"},{"start":4154.837,"end":4170.192,"text":"黃國昌作為代理主席今天不敢自己親自過來違背自己曾經支持過的理念那在這邊既然大家就是直播我們要在這裡表達一個就是黃國昌不敢參加今天的協商以上"},{"start":4176.567,"end":4205.746,"text":"好謝謝主席喔那我想這幾天社群上面的關鍵字就是特權就是我們要回行一下我每個現在就是大家在流行一下我怎麼去反省我是不是一個有特權的的一個資產的一個人那其實呢救國團救國團就是一個徹徹底底享受特權的團體就像剛剛范委員說的婦女薪資到現在還在租房子那我所創辦的特工盟到現在我們也還在租所以那為什麼救國團做公益可以做到有這麼多的資產"},{"start":4207.248,"end":4233.688,"text":"這就是一個非常荒謬因為就是在當年蔣中正他自己說的舊國團是黨內重要的親運機構需要接受黨的領導這都是完全真真實實的歷史事件所以這也就說明了國民黨使用的就是公有地拿的就是國家的經費去發展那這就是不公不義強占資產把這些錢還給民眾天經地義"},{"start":4235.169,"end":4257.225,"text":"而且這些錢本來就是希望可以來做這個400億這400億可以來做很多的福利像是剛剛陳培宇委員剛剛都有講的我們學生所需要的我們人民所需要的我們年輕人所需要的還有我們年輕家庭還有我們長輩所需要的東西都可以透過這個400億有更好的一個支持同時我也想要再來反駁第二點就是說"},{"start":4259.907,"end":4287.245,"text":"剛剛永浩委員從頭到尾都在講救國團一個全民公益的形象是所有人都可以認同的那既然如此為什麼要禁服惡毒就把他送進委員會裡面好好討論他到底是不是全民所認同的公益形象就是講清楚講攤開來講不要用這種偷偷摸摸的手法禁服惡毒然後選在今天來做協商趁大家都不注意的時候偷偷來協商"},{"start":4288.326,"end":4302.205,"text":"再來還有這個油耗委員上面寫的一些提案的理由齁我真的覺得現在就是完全都違背了憲法法庭的這個7934字號的一個判一個說明齁一個解釋"},{"start":4304.252,"end":4331.161,"text":"像這個尤浩偉裡面說呢這個在案有裡面就是說這個黨產鑑於政黨及附隨組織不當取得財產處理條例呢至行政機關不當擴權嚴重侵害侵害公益團體除妨礙其正常運作亦損及社會和諧然後呢而且為了促進民主政治良心發展保障人民依法享有之憲法基本權所以來做了這一次的修法"},{"start":4331.821,"end":4346.068,"text":"可是在憲法法庭其實已經在793號解釋了這整個過程黨產條例處理的過程中是合憲的而且也維持了這個權利分立的原則而且也符合了平等原則所以這個裡面其實"},{"start":4347.348,"end":4369.278,"text":"憲法法庭已經說了處理的過程是合法合憲的可是現在有一個立法委員要用這一個法案來推翻憲法法庭所做的四字號的一個解釋那說明的是什麼是現在立法委員最大就跟你們的翁大法官一樣所有的解釋都是以國民黨的解釋來為準"},{"start":4370.839,"end":4391.262,"text":"好那再來我覺得還有最後一個很重要的重點就是說憲法法庭其實裡面有講到之所以能國民國團之所以能夠取得這些財產都是因為他當時的一個威權的地位那這次呢要處理的目的呢都是要恢復政黨公平競爭來保護自由民主憲政的秩序都是一個"},{"start":4393.324,"end":4404.912,"text":"體現正當重大的一個憲法價值這是台灣恢復法治國家本該有的一個秩序所以呢所有的處置都是為了要讓政黨可以有公平競爭"},{"start":4407.413,"end":4430.974,"text":"今天12月2號國民黨的李乾隆表示這些救國團的錢拿回去不管是救國團或是婦聯會這些黨產拿回去的錢都是要來為自己的空戰 怒戰會有助益所以這完全說明了國民黨這次提的這些修法"},{"start":4431.394,"end":4449.891,"text":"都只是為了自己的選舉為了自己的利益考量心中完全沒有人民所以我在想這個2026年國民黨的新年新希望就是把錢拿回家就是把錢拿回家人民擺一邊這就是國民黨的中心思想謝謝"},{"start":4452.923,"end":4469.831,"text":"請油耗委員剛剛提到這個報導我還是要特別提就是在不管許多的一些法案的通過那其實並不是說實際上有任何的經費可以幫助任何的政黨在空戰入戰"},{"start":4470.991,"end":4491.049,"text":"而是在為復國立民的法案來提出的時候那如果民眾認同的話那同樣那就是可以讓那所以說今天來講再講這個400億不管是今天你要無限擴大到各種的組織但是今天討論的是救國團那但是回頭來講"},{"start":4493.411,"end":4509.946,"text":"400億或者是一兆2500億等等相關我們其實看到的是其實如果今天通過法律的這些預算包括軍人加薪包括公教的部分包括警校的部分能夠早點編列"},{"start":4511.187,"end":4540.747,"text":"那我相信民眾想要看的一個憲政跟民主社會的台灣應該是要看到通過的法律該給人民的權益都能夠在立法院的通過之下來去在預算來去執行所以今天的這個黨場會那個救國團的錢沒有辦法去影響到是否會讓人民會讓我們百姓在2026年那是不是包括什麼生育津貼等等啊所以我覺得這個完全是兩個不同概念"},{"start":4541.307,"end":4555.872,"text":"那同樣剛才在范雲委員所提到的就是婦女薪資我相信也為了我們婦女權益做了許多那其實今天拿婦女薪資比照救國團沒有任何人會說婦女薪資是任何政黨的附隨組織"},{"start":4557.012,"end":4579.529,"text":"那所以說今天來講任何的一個社會團體他們為了各種權益在努力為了公義在努力我相信這個部分應該是要被認同跟支持那所以說今天來講救國團過去他所應該是要由國家來去認定的一路以來都有這個法治社會下都有相關在進行而今天來講"},{"start":4580.55,"end":4607.57,"text":"還是回頭來講不應該是由黨場會來直接更是不應該是由民進黨黨團直接幫公益團體來做主張今天一個公益團體他都有辦法還來去對了一個我們公益轉體來去做一個清算的話那將來更多的公益組織公益團體也都同樣的還會受到一樣的一個待遇跟下場那所以說本席還是在這裡再強調"},{"start":4609.171,"end":4630.311,"text":"剛才一直舉手的陳委員他一直在提著我在2024年6月5號的提案在拿兩個月前的報導還來去做一個一個提出的時候其實時間上就已經挫折了那所以還是要再次的表達其實今天這案就算是沒有共識但是也無法去抹滅還有救國團他的一個裡面"},{"start":4633.013,"end":4654.403,"text":"有各個政黨擔任同委會的委員、指導委員跟會長這個公益團體為社會的付出不應該在這30年來這些所謂的每位志工他們所累積一點一滴在救國團使用的經費還今天在黨場會來講要受到限制回到條文的內容"},{"start":4655.023,"end":4674.18,"text":"那在所謂的人事財務或業務改成集的部分那這樣子才是真正的可以做一個實際認定而不是太過於的一個無限擴大還要帶他們定義所謂的覆水組織所以今天還給民間團體公道公益不能等"},{"start":4674.66,"end":4694.676,"text":"所以在這裡也是希望這個沒有辦法說偷偷摸摸因為今天光明正大在這邊的直播三位委員在這裡堅守著針對著救護團那我相信回頭來講那這東西是公開社會可受公平的那也希望說其實像范委員也有參加救護團的活動過去也都說救護團其實不錯"},{"start":4695.997,"end":4706.945,"text":"那其實回頭來講那不然怎麼好那你沒有說救國團不錯高中的時候對收回收回但是你那時候高中也積極參與我收回但是你高中積極參與救國團的活動對"},{"start":4710.988,"end":4738.237,"text":"那再來救國團也沒有辦法去要求中嘉賓委員他要不要擔任指導委員或是副主委那是中嘉賓委員也是幹事長是心甘情願的來擔任救國團的職務那所以其實啊還在議題歸議題回到地方大家認同救國團那也在地方上希望能夠獲得救國團的支持我相信這個沒有錯"},{"start":4738.997,"end":4764.848,"text":"那所以今天救火團本來就不分藍綠不分顏色的一個公益組織那回頭來講在立院的這議事堂應該是要還給公益組織一個公道那所以回頭來講我會是希望民進黨的委員過去有參與過救火團的委員可以回歸一起來支持一個公益團體還撇開意識形態的一個局限 謝謝"},{"start":4767.591,"end":4793.872,"text":"主席我們最後一次發言好不好好 那最後一次發言好 謝謝主席尤浩回答我幾個問題就好不要說我們牽拖來 有沒有婦聯會很簡單尤浩你一定不知道什麼叫轉型正義你可能也不知道這個為什麼要這樣寫那我跟你說因為你的寫法呢是放在第四條第二款叫做附隨組織那我們就要來看看你口口聲聲只敢講救國團救國團當然目前已經是被認證的附隨組織那婦聯會你敢不敢講"},{"start":4796.974,"end":4803.797,"text":"所以不要問A答B你就承認吧附隨組織裡面就有含復聯會跟救國團這個是我要拜託你去看一下當時轉型正義人們在談的到底是什麼可是呢身為極權的捍衛者你是來自一個極權的政黨你可能不敢去看自己過往你們的政黨如何壓榨欺負殺害台灣人民所以你不想去碰我可以理解可是我就提醒你你此時此刻坐在這裡"},{"start":4824.384,"end":4837.433,"text":"附隨組織不是只有救國團還有韓富聯會所以400億理所當然請不要忘記了相關的報告裡面都有提出第二個不要再消費所有民進黨團參與過救國團活動的人"},{"start":4839.855,"end":4866.808,"text":"不要忘記了當時你們國民黨就壟斷了整個市場你們只准特定的組織特定的人辦特定的活動就只是為了洗腦前置相關言論在所有的青年還有青少年包含大學跟高中生這些歷史拜託去檔案局翻一翻看一看對於過去你們自己做過歷史不敢承認沒關係回到家偷偷看如何欺負台灣人民很清楚再來我要說的是"},{"start":4869.901,"end":4889.811,"text":"討論為什麼要禁負二讀呢大家等一下都要去看跨年煙火對不對而我們大家你在看跨年煙火國民黨在偷全民福利如果這麼光明磊落如果要為公益團體說話為什麼不敢交付委員會討論為什麼要禁負二讀甚至急著要在禮拜五可能就要表決處理了"},{"start":4892.073,"end":4912.723,"text":"很會啊利用大家看著跨年煙火的時候就躲閃過去啊等到禮拜五大家突然想到啊這件事情就要處理完了我就提醒大家這就是現在國民黨公開的偷偷摸摸公開的用禁負二讀的方法然後禮拜五快速表決不討論不讓我們發言我在這裡公開呼籲"},{"start":4914.163,"end":4929.315,"text":"國民黨跟民眾黨如果真的好意思繼續對著台灣人民說這不是為了圖利特定政黨這不是為了自肥你們國民黨所謂的自肥一條龍包含助理費的法案包含總統連署的法案那你就不要在禮拜五處理啊"},{"start":4930.196,"end":4930.956,"text":"那我也最後一次發言好了"},{"start":4957.083,"end":4973.761,"text":"那不然友浩講完主委回應我們就今天結束可以嗎OK好那請友浩好那今天來講剛才有提到的我不知道到底禮拜五是哪裡得罪了陳委員但是如果其他時間願意排協商我相信我們都配合"},{"start":4974.381,"end":4991.387,"text":"那再來的話就是今天來講的話我們也看到我們全民今天這兩天都在關注的應該是軍演下的國防安全你腦袋不清楚啊 主席我要抗議喔協商不是民進黨團排的這麼不公不義的法案排的協商是國民黨團國民黨團排的換煙煙火前他在拋全民的福利我要正中抗議你要不要回答我 婦聯會是不是附隨組織"},{"start":5003.772,"end":5029.208,"text":"今天來講任何被不當會黨場會認定的附水組織我相信非常多的樣態 黨場會有沒有正當性不是你尤浩一個人說了算 那沒關係給全民去認定所以還是請尊重發言好不好那所以說我坦白講不管是排在禮拜幾那至少是排在今天那我相信全民在關注的是軍演校的國防安全但是我看今天民進黨黨團是非常用心的關注救國團"},{"start":5030.169,"end":5033.57,"text":"那所以說回頭來講請尊重發言吧請尊重發言"},{"start":5061.124,"end":5067.475,"text":"等你們在造謠嗨你們在造謠嗨回頭來講說我們造謠那回頭來講"},{"start":5071.667,"end":5072.127,"text":"所以說今天來講還是回頭來講剛才其實都說得很清楚公益團體就是公益團體"},{"start":5091.366,"end":5106.443,"text":"那你一直在拿過去的時間在講現在的委員那我相信其實在這十幾二十年前在這十幾二十年沒有人有辦法去逼著宗家兵委員也沒有辦法有人去逼著包括童子偉議長"},{"start":5107.424,"end":5129.839,"text":"所以說我坦白講拿著過去那個那個范委員你在參加習阿仲走時期的時間再來看你要講我高中的時候對那再來講現在的時候高三的時候教官來我們班上罵我們全班一小時說為什麼本班是北一女中沒有唯一一個沒有國民黨員的班級請尊重一下發言委員好嗎其實我覺得時間挫制這個部分我也覺得也沒什麼要再討論了"},{"start":5135.623,"end":5161.143,"text":"那我在想其實大家公益團體的形象跟今天所提的循環公益團體的公道這個其實大家都很清楚那所以說所以說今天我在想這也沒有什麼共識那今天這個都是以意識形態意識形態來針對救國團其實社會各界都看在眼裡啦對啊所以說回頭來講大致上就"},{"start":5166.814,"end":5183.121,"text":"這是你們黨團文宣吧不是耶 這黨產會做出來的你要不要去團點一下你好意思講喔這是你們國民黨救國團救國團的地址在公開網站上都找得到救國團的網站找得到救國團網站找得到"},{"start":5189.389,"end":5199.979,"text":"所以啊 不要再追殺公益團體這些許多的活動中心許多的委員 你們也都去住過對 日月團是南投的救國團的所以說 救國團不適用的公益"},{"start":5209.068,"end":5221.098,"text":"你可能沒有仔細看這個提案陳委員今天的提案討論救國團你一直在提其他的組織再次重申 請尊重發言委員我們尊重主席 謝謝我們請那個林峰正主委謝謝主席"},{"start":5235.05,"end":5251.468,"text":"我要揭露一些事實也許委員不是真的那麼清楚救國團他離開政府控管的時候他沒有把使用的財產交回來這是焦點嘛至於以後誰去過那個地方並不能證明說那個地方"},{"start":5252.749,"end":5263.796,"text":"來取得了正當性啊誰參加那個團體並不能去解決他當時侵佔公產沒有交還這個事實啊你不能解決這個問題啊就連現在所謂這個公益團體他有超過50億的資產很有錢"},{"start":5271.209,"end":5290.07,"text":"那現在每年的營收20幾億那也不是一般的公益團體可以達到的境地然後我再揭露一個事實是舊軟曾經在民眾黨的柯文哲市長任內的時候他們自知理虧建壇青年活動中心那個建物原來是登記舊軟的"},{"start":5293.186,"end":5316.128,"text":"當時台北市府柯文哲市長領導台北市政府跟舊國團達成一個協議舊國團用贈語的方式把登記在舊國團名下的建壇活動中心的建物贈語給台北市政府但是要求再用8年也就是在2024年的去年年底要交還無條件交還點交清楚"},{"start":5318.359,"end":5345.471,"text":"如果舊武團覺得他沒有理虧那個財產是他做公益 他努力賺來的他為什麼要把那麼 既然清泉洪中心大家都經過吧沒有去過也經過吧 就在這邊不遠啊為什麼他願意把那麼大幾千坪的建物交還給台北市政府結果呢去年底時間到了 偷偷拉登記了點交沒有 交還沒有 沒有耶"},{"start":5347.947,"end":5363.841,"text":"台北市政府居然說讓他暫時再使用今年已經2025年12月31號過了一年了說要給他暫用暫時使用結果他沒有離開耶他每年幾億的收入在健談健康中心幾億的收入在收"},{"start":5367.477,"end":5381.13,"text":"那這個事實不應該處理嗎這個特權是現在進行式不只是過去式還是現在進行式為什麼現在還不處理呢那我們認定是負稅組織之後經過了六年法院判了我們贏"},{"start":5382.864,"end":5403.336,"text":"法院認證說救護團就是國民黨的負責組織好那你救護團上訴我們都尊重啊那等最高行政法院判嘛為什麼這麼急在這個時候修法迴避掉讓法院審判的空間都不肯都不肯讓法院好好判那後面講的所謂我們拿要求他的財產收歸國有我每一件都舉證"},{"start":5405.209,"end":5426.438,"text":"為什麼這個財產要交回來因為當初是哪一筆錢哪一筆錢去買那個土地去建的那個建物我們都是有憑有據我們才處分所以我們處分只有一些不動產還有16億啊我剛講的救援資產超過50億我們沒有全部拿耶當然我們還要再繼續調查因為這裡面千絲萬縷"},{"start":5427.899,"end":5452.676,"text":"所以我再強調的是 法院已經判了嘛法院在審判 為什麼連讓法院判都不願意 都不敢好 那你說要修法 也可以那你回到委員會 我們好好來談嘛為什麼要禁錮二讀這個是不能接受的 謝謝好 我來宣布協商結論本日協商未取得共識 送請院會處理 以上今天散會 謝謝"},{"start":5459.844,"end":5471.611,"text":"是誰啊 國民黨啊不公公義 國民黨咋子當場不屁啊 國民黨不屁啊假公義 真圖利 就是國民黨跟民眾黨"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}