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委員陳"},{"start":1522.52,"end":1548.253,"text":"翁曉琳等17人擬拒還有台灣民眾黨擬拒委員洪孟凱等16人擬拒委員徐宇珍等18人委員萬美玲等16人委員黃建斌等16人委員廖偉祥等17人委員高晉素美等17人委員郭育晴等18人委員羅廷偉等16人擬拒的草案來進行詢答"},{"start":1551.127,"end":1574.014,"text":"首先介紹在場的委員伍麗華委員其次介紹與會的官員首先是教育部政務司長張亮萬堅"},{"start":1578.086,"end":1605.026,"text":"還有國民及學前教育署署長彭副園好其他的是屬於教育部的相關人員我們現在進行介紹法務部的檢察官李子齊原住民族委員會教育文化處副處長邱文龍衛生福利部社會及家庭署組長黃靈慧"},{"start":1610.342,"end":1629.559,"text":"行政院人事行政總處培訓考用處專門委員蔡佩蓉行政院人事行政總處給予福利處專門委員林志玉行政院主計總處公務預算處專門委員王淺凱"},{"start":1635.564,"end":1656.522,"text":"內政部國土署建築管理組檢任政工程師盧昭宏你好內政部消防署預防調查組副組長張福仲內政部消防署預防調查組秘書吳佩如"},{"start":1666.629,"end":1674.121,"text":"現在先請提案委員進行提案說明有要做提案說明的嗎好 那請伍麗華委員"},{"start":1685.322,"end":1697.958,"text":"大家早安今天我有提出偏鄉地區學校教育發展條例的修正最主要是想要誠實面對一個事實這部條例已經嚴重脫離偏鄉教育的一個實際現場怎麼說呢"},{"start":1703.846,"end":1725.289,"text":"因為這部法從106年施行到今天花了大量的篇幅設計了一個所謂的專聘教師制度但實際上全台教師這個專聘的人數是零那制度存在在條文裡面可是卻從未真正的被使用"},{"start":1726.009,"end":1752.797,"text":"這就說明這個制度的設計有了問題所以我的第一個修法重點針對的是人才在偏鄉的第一線真正撐住教學現場的是由學校自行申選長期續聘的代理教師但是現行的條例只有保障主管機關公開申選的代理教師而所謂的主管機關公開申選"},{"start":1753.917,"end":1770.5,"text":"全台只有澎湖實際的辦理那造成了絕大多數的代理教師被排除在偏鄉條例之外所以我的修法把各校自辦甄選的代理教師正式的納入條例保障"},{"start":1771.281,"end":1792.017,"text":"並且明文讓表現良好的老師不受次數限制的續聘讓學校可以穩定用人也讓代理老師不必年年被迫離開熟悉的孩子跟社區第二個修法重點是讓在地的人才有制度性的培育路徑"},{"start":1793.278,"end":1812.26,"text":"現在偏鄉學士候學分班的名額供不應求顯示出很多人願意投入偏鄉但是問題在於自費就讀的門檻反而比補助生還要更高還把大量實際教書的待課年資被排除在外"},{"start":1812.921,"end":1839.82,"text":"那想要自費就讀偏鄉學士後學分班在偏鄉要服務滿十學期但是偏鄉條例全額補助的對象只要實際服務滿三年四學期所以我的主張是不論補助或自費只要在偏鄉實際服務滿三年四個學期就應該同樣能夠就讀學分班同時待課老師目前不能進修"},{"start":1841.434,"end":1861.915,"text":"偏鄉學士學分班但是只要符合一定的授課量例如每週十四節的待課老師只要訂出一個合理採記的樓地板鼓勵他們去進修才能夠符合偏鄉的現況達到拉高合格教師比例的目標"},{"start":1862.896,"end":1883.932,"text":"那我第三個修法重點是偏鄉孩子的學習空間跟建築安全也就是第12條偏鄉有很多的村裡部落它的地形交通限制等等需要設立分班那教學場所呢現行條文雖然允許使用既有合法建築物"},{"start":1884.472,"end":1904.846,"text":"但是在原住民族地區我們很多的建物因為限時條件要取得完整的合法證明文件有困難結果就是讓孩子被迫的長距離通學要不然就是教學空間卡關那麼最後受影響的是孩子的受教權因此"},{"start":1906.347,"end":1927.801,"text":"這一次修法希望在不犧牲安全的前提下參考長照機構管理規範新增更符合偏鄉縣市的替代機制也就是合法建物資證明文件得以結構安全鑑定及簡易消防配置圖替代並且每年報主管機關備查"},{"start":1929.202,"end":1957.324,"text":"也就是說放寬的是文件形式強化的是安全把關讓孩子能夠有安全的教室也讓地方有執行的路徑那最後就是偏鄉九任獎金的公平問題目前九任獎金的發放只限老師但是同樣在校園內的教練護理師 社工 行政人力等等他們同樣是偏鄉學校"},{"start":1957.824,"end":1981.137,"text":"不可或缺的人員所以我們主張一併的納入九任獎勵的對象讓他能夠不論公保 勞保有一個法源依據最後針對我一再呼籲的在地人才 在地培育教育部應該要考慮跟地方大學合作設立偏鄉師資的培育專班"},{"start":1982.297,"end":2008.147,"text":"優先錄取在地的青年搭配在地的實習在地的留任就業保障讓偏鄉長出自己的老師這一次的修法就是希望讓偏鄉教育回到偏鄉的真實樣貌在地人才可以被培育孩子有安全的教室投入的人能夠被留下來被尊重敬請大家支持 謝謝"},{"start":2013.732,"end":2041.076,"text":"好 謝謝武力華委員的提案說明那現場的委員人數已達三人那請問現場的委員對於議事錄有沒有意見 有沒有意義沒有 那好 那我們達到議決人數三人那也沒有意義 那就議事錄就確定了好 那現在想要請武力華委員 是不是可以麻煩你一下下就是我要做提案說明"},{"start":2042.612,"end":2068.396,"text":"好 那這樣子就請他嗎請議員 知委員你現在代理主席一下我要做我們本黨的提案說明就暫時在位置上面 謝謝現在請民眾黨黨團做提案說明"},{"start":2081.767,"end":2104.317,"text":"好 謝謝主席那本院的民眾黨呢就建議為了協助穩定偏遠地區學校的師資呢以實現教育平等的原則呢確保偏遠地區的學校教育的均衡發展以因應偏遠地區學校的特殊性跟需求改善他的師資跟學習的條件"},{"start":2105.057,"end":2129.031,"text":"提升偏遠地區學校學生的學習品質並且要平衡城鄉的教育原理據的偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第7條跟第8條條文的修正草案以放寬專聘教師的資格並補助由偏遠地區學校自辦徵選的方式來禁用現代"},{"start":2131.493,"end":2150.993,"text":"現職的代理教師以提升偏遠地區專業合格師資的素質強化偏遠地區師資久任的誘因這才能夠真正的解決現在師資流動率太高的問題並且吸引有意願及熱忱服務偏遠地區的師資"},{"start":2152.114,"end":2171.646,"text":"希望說今天的這個討論的是一個開始那後續還會有相關的主條的審查的時候呢大家對於目前已經實施了八年之久的偏遠地區學校教育的發展條例能夠有一個更完整的一個修訂好 謝謝謝謝"},{"start":2185.29,"end":2188.325,"text":"接著請教育部張料政次進行報告報告時間10分鐘"},{"start":2195.697,"end":2221.249,"text":"主席 各位委員 女士先生 大家好感謝委員會安排今日的會議那麼就偏遠地區學校教育發展條例 部分條文修正草案進行詢答本人硬要列席 得以聆聽各位委員寶貴的意見 自感榮幸那麼以下呢 就緊就本部對各項修正草案之整體回應提出口頭說明 敬請各位委員來指教"},{"start":2221.969,"end":2239.341,"text":"那麼首先就條例目前實施的情形來做個概括性的說明那麼第一偏遠地區學校教育發展條例在106年12月公布之後呢期望全面協助偏遠地區學校因為交通不便生活機能不足"},{"start":2240.001,"end":2255.141,"text":"社会条件不利以及失智不稳定等结构性的因素影响学生受教权的问题来落实教育军等的政策目标本部依据本条例授权也完成了八部的执法"},{"start":2255.862,"end":2274.046,"text":"那麼第二點有關偏遠地區學校的分級認定那麼本部是每三年定期檢討那麼從108年起認定的指標也由9項調整為16項以提升制度完整性跟客觀性那麼經過統計107到109學年度我們核定的偏遠地區學校一共有1177校那麼110年到112年"},{"start":2283.717,"end":2305.585,"text":"合定的校數是1206校那麼113年到115學年度合定的校數是1191校從這裡數據看來整體的校數維持是相對的穩定另外本部在108年也訂定了偏遠地區學校及非三非四學校經費的作業要點"},{"start":2306.405,"end":2329.202,"text":"每年約編列了新台幣40億元的預算那麼重點方面在三個方面那第一個方面是在師資與人力方面透過補助合理教師員額引導降低教師員額的控留比例那麼結合公費生的制度合併及巡迴教師的機制來推動久任獎金及相關留任的措施來穩定師資結構"},{"start":2331.528,"end":2359.954,"text":"第二方面 在設施設備方面我們提供每校3年200萬的設施設備的經費並持續來補助偏遠地區學校數位資訊 藝文及體育設施也推動了中央廚房 宿舍的改善廁所的整修以及離島教育建設等計畫那麼逐步來改善校園基礎的條件第三個方面 在學生學習跟教師專業發展方面也提供每校每年25萬"},{"start":2361.826,"end":2379.897,"text":"学生多元试探的活动经费那么每校每年25万的教师专业发展经费并且透过学习辅助课后照顾夜光天使美感教育及教学访问教师等措施来支持学生多元学习以及教师专业成长"},{"start":2381.136,"end":2406.799,"text":"第四個說明是我們為了收集各界的建議及廣正意見本部在111年到114年間共召開了23次偏遠地區教育相關的會議廣泛邀集不同型態的學校來參與並同時賦予不同屬性學校來進行對話收集的意見都作為後續政策調整與行政經濟的重要參考"},{"start":2407.984,"end":2425.412,"text":"那麼第二個部分我們來對本部對委員所提的修正草案來做一個回應跟說明非常感謝各位委員的關心那麼本部依據修正草案的主題包括第四條部分有關偏遠地區學校的認定級分級"},{"start":2426.212,"end":2439.099,"text":"那麼考量認定的結果涉及相關權益措施相關的標準仍需具有一致性及可驗的官方統計資料為基礎那麼本部會持續收集各界的意見來精進相關運作的機制"},{"start":2441.48,"end":2461.411,"text":"第二個部分是有關第五條 第七條 第八條 第十一條 第二十一條有關偏遠地區私資禁用 留任與人力彈性方面那麼其中有委員提到要有遇孫留職停薪的年限是在第五條第三項那麼其實在現行既有制度架構下呢已經有相關的規範"},{"start":2463.07,"end":2483.46,"text":"第2個是在第7條第8條的部分有關專聘教師及學校自聘合格代理教師的禁用方式再聘機制進修認證及轉任專任教師現行條例及相關聘任辦法以兼顧師資品質及偏遠地區用人彈性較為符合行政減量之政策方向與實務運作"},{"start":2485.475,"end":2510.304,"text":"那麼第三方面有關第十一條第四項有委員的版本提到要增置教師援援的部分我們現行已經將合理的援援機制納入法制的規範而且地方主管機關可以另訂優於該準則的援援編制規定現行制度已經具備有彈性調整的空間那第四方面有關第21條九任獎金的支領對象"},{"start":2512.319,"end":2527.762,"text":"這部分我們希望能夠繼續收集地方政府各機關以及各界的意見來審慎研議現行的制度為代理教師是否具備教師證書作為唯一的判準所以目前還可以顧及到制度的彈性"},{"start":2528.854,"end":2552.059,"text":"那麼第三方面呢有關第10條第11條第13條第14條第15條第16條呢有關區域教育資源中心角色的定位跟功能的強化那麼現行的部分地方政府的區域教育資源中心已辦有這個整合行政人力教學等相關事項本部也透過相關的補助計畫引導地方政府"},{"start":2552.879,"end":2573.195,"text":"那么又从专业辅导人员及社会工作人员的现行也是以国中学区为设置范围这样就有助于学校实际上的一个需求第4点说明是有关第12条第12条之一就是有关学校要设立裁并与学生的就学权益方面"},{"start":2574.015,"end":2593.086,"text":"現行的國民教育法已經就學校裁並定有相關程序參與的機制另外本條例也定有設立分校分班及教學場所的彈性機制那麼委員所提的版本建議涉及地方政府的權限本部委會持續收集地方政府及各界的意見來審慎研議"},{"start":2595.367,"end":2610.719,"text":"第五我們有關這個第16條18條19條關於學生學習支持宿舍補助與設置全國偏遠地區教育會議這部分呢本部已經有相關的補助措施"},{"start":2611.56,"end":2626.556,"text":"並以地方政府的財力及次採不同的比例來補助也符合中央跟地方共同分擔教育責任的原則那麼至於教職員宿舍的部分現行的條文已經保留有補助的彈性那麼"},{"start":2627.717,"end":2650.573,"text":"另外呢現行以區分區會議的方式廣泛收集各界的意見並與不同屬性的學校來進行對話那麼現行互動的頻率較高也能夠充分廣納多元的意見那麼最後呢我們要再次感謝提出修正草案的各位委員都非常關心偏鄉教育那麼本條例自"},{"start":2652.075,"end":2666.295,"text":"106年實施後本部持續廣泛收集各界的意見並配合調整相關的行政措施行政配套措施提供彈性的運作機制那麼有關委員所提的建議據部分"},{"start":2667.509,"end":2683.088,"text":"意見涉及到地方政府及其他機關的權責建議人持續人因持續收集地方政府及各界的意見來審慎研議來使本條例的推動與實施更真完備那麼以上報告敬請各位委員指教謝謝"},{"start":2688.547,"end":2706.113,"text":"好 謝謝安廖次長的報告那其他相關機關的書面意見就請各位委員就一併參考那現在進行詢答每位出席委員質詢6分鐘必要時延長2分鐘列席委員質詢時間為4分鐘"},{"start":2708.914,"end":2736.434,"text":"发言登记截止时间为10点30分委员如果有临时提案请于上午10时30分前提出并于本会委员吴佩义质询结束后即进行处理处理提案时若提案委员及联署委员均不在场原例就不予处理那现在呢请发言登记第一位的叶元之委员进行质询"},{"start":2746.23,"end":2746.794,"text":"麻煩請次長謝謝有請商調市長"},{"start":2752.569,"end":2780.489,"text":"委員好次長好就是教育部之前有宣布就是終於有看到老師的需求然後有提供有提高一點導師費謝謝委員的建議然後還有行政加急然後另外就是終點費那但這個當然我們是支持的但是當然還是覺得不夠然後還有衍生出幾個面向跟你討論一下第一個是終點費的部分因為現在增加的是兼任待課教師的終點費"},{"start":2781.687,"end":2796.935,"text":"那對於那些正式老師他沒有做行政職也沒有做導師的實際上是有增加他的成本因為他如果請假要找代課老師的話他付的那個代課費用也會比較高這個次長你當初有想到這個狀況嗎"},{"start":2798.208,"end":2815.607,"text":"我想这一部分这应该不是你的本意也不会是希望说增加兼课代课教师的重点费却让正式老师在请假的时候必须付比较高的成本因为可能跟大家想不一样大家不知道说这个钱其实是老师出不是教育不是学校出是老师出所以确实就是老师是有增加成本"},{"start":2816.948,"end":2837.521,"text":"這是其中一個面向譬如說它如果是工價或者之類的我知道它如果是病假或者是試假它給待課費當然就提高它待課費就要提高那我覺得這不是教育部的本意上一次我在10月中的時候當時是部長來其實我有提供一個建議就是讓"},{"start":2838.602,"end":2849.431,"text":"所有的學校的老師可以減兩個小時的終點因為國小是20個小時一個禮拜國中是18 高中是16當時是可以建議說如果減兩個終點這其實有個好處第一個"},{"start":2853.775,"end":2881.377,"text":"因為現在老師108課綱的關係所以他又要讓學生自主學習又多元教學其實增加很多時間成本譬如說他要準備很多教材還要影印這些成本其實教育部都看不到所以你如果減兩個小時可以讓他更多備課的時間然後可以對每個學生有更多時間可以去照顧這是減時間的部分如果假設他"},{"start":2882.618,"end":2900.758,"text":"要去代課的話幫人家代課現在剛好教育部你的那個終點費提高了嘛所以他代課的話他等於他加班費也變多嘛所以其實我一直覺得說這個減兩個小時的政策是可以推動可是後來教育部因為我是10月提的教育部後來回我一個報告說不可行啦"},{"start":2901.238,"end":2915.179,"text":"但不可行的理由我是不太能接受第一個理由是說因為現在的基本教學的結束配置穩定如果再調降的話就會沒有辦法足夠校內師資授課不是啦 這個就是你要增加員額的問題嘛"},{"start":2916.941,"end":2939.65,"text":"這就是增加緣額增加緣額這個點在你們給我的報告的第四點的相關配套裡面就有講說你們會透過能力補足的方式來解決所以代表說你回覆我減兩個小時終點不可行的這個理由你就自打臉了這是第一件事情第二個是講第二個說不可行的理由是說"},{"start":2941.823,"end":2963.317,"text":"如果說教師要增加每週超時授課結束的話會沒有辦法有效減輕教師工作負擔那我覺得這個就是老師自己的選擇就是說我們先讓他們每一個人減兩小時那如果有的老師他願意去幫人家帶課然後可以領那個超經貼的超時經貼這就是他的選擇"},{"start":2965.114,"end":2989.408,"text":"因此減兩個小時實際上我覺得可以達到第一個減輕老師負擔第二個如果老師要去幫人家帶課的話那配合教育部你現在提高終點這樣的一個措施他的加分費有提高啊所以這是一個可行的政策啦我希望教育部你們再去研議一下不要每一次好像我們提供意見因為有的時候我們的意見也是有中很多老師的"},{"start":2990.56,"end":3007.289,"text":"的想法像你們可能不知道老師其實現在工作真的是很繁重有時候要改作業 改作文 改週記然後改成績 改作業改作文到半夜還有很多行政作業要寫表單 要寫評鑑工作真的是很多"},{"start":3008.71,"end":3036.377,"text":"這個部分是不是你在我想委員的關心的方向其實跟之前也有教師團體提出說要降低班級人數也是一個方法我講的不是降低班級人數減瘦時數當然也是一種這個都涉及到整個大家關心整個教師的教學負擔各方面的負擔這個要全盤的來考慮譬如說你現在降低時數會增加費用支出"},{"start":3036.897,"end":3063.862,"text":"那過去這個這個費用支出上一次我有跟部長講我幫他也算過了大概就是增加20億左右那你知道你知道那個在前幾個月你們有送來一個任性報告光高教的特別預算就變200億你覺得高教很危險所以要提高任性變了200億那現在國教的問題就是老師的問題嘛缺老師嘛所以你要改善那個老師教學環境嘛"},{"start":3064.758,"end":3092.933,"text":"才20億而已十分之一而已你就覺得很多了你就覺得捨不得了但是高校200億你就覺得沒有什麼現在高中以下其實很大的一部分除了國立學校以外是屬於地方的學校所以它增加了費用我跟你講市長我跟你講因為今天我沒有要跟你吵那個中央地方我覺得因為教育部是主要的政策制定者就像之前說要提高導師費還有就是行政加急也是由教育部來宣布"},{"start":3093.513,"end":3109.573,"text":"我們這個有找地方但是你們就是要去找地方所以我現在跟你提出嘛那你們去找地方嘛對 財源部分看怎麼分配但是這個事情我覺得該做所以希望你們先確定政策方向然後再去討論說這財源怎麼分配啦好不好 這個你們再研議一下"},{"start":3110.314,"end":3136.01,"text":"當然都是各種建議嘛我們都會你不能每一個人給你很多建議不同建議但是你就說要通盤考量通盤考量結果一件事都沒做嘛不會啦對不對不會一件事那我現在就真的我的建議你們再給我一個再重新再評估一下然後第二個就是行政加息你們現在是有給工作行政工作獎金是一千到兩千嘛請問一下你們預計會增加多少預算這個 來署長來說明一下好不好這一個"},{"start":3140.898,"end":3167.659,"text":"如果是就全年來講是增加5億多增加5億多7千6百萬左右全年增加5億多對 5億多好 那我跟你講好不好你現在加1千到2千實際上還是不夠啦還是不夠因為你現在導資費增加但行政加給只加1千到2千會讓很多學校更找不到行政人員會更找不到行政人員這個我不知道你有沒有跟一些校長主任聊過"},{"start":3170.005,"end":3184.885,"text":"所以我是建議你先生家籍應該要加到五千左右那你剛剛講說一千到兩千大概是增加五億嘛所以如果你加到五千的話大概是乘以二點五就是差不多十二億"},{"start":3186.958,"end":3201.109,"text":"12.5億嘛其實你應該要再多編12.5億讓那個導師費讓行政加給可以更高啦這個你也去評估一下我現在講的相較於高教都是小錢啦因為高教特別預算就200億啊國教你看我剛剛講20億加上這個12.5億才32.5億啊"},{"start":3204.662,"end":3231.837,"text":"我們會持續評估 真的這個是一個嚴重的問題建議你們去跟學校的那個校長主任聊一下這個措施你們之前的措施會不會造成更找不到行政人員還有第三個因為今天講的是偏鄉學校那個偏鄉學校現在有一個措施是讓沒有教師證的代理老師可以在如果他有五年的年資的話可以讓他去修教育學程學分班對吧"},{"start":3233.839,"end":3247.938,"text":"其實我覺得一般的非偏鄉學校比如說市區學校的代理教師也一樣有這樣的需求因為我有聽過非常多代理教師他是市區的他可能已經代理接近十年了有的八年 有的九年他對教育很有熱忱"},{"start":3249.139,"end":3268.457,"text":"但是每次都提心吊膽因為沒有教師證的代理老師要等到學校三招以後才有機會進到學校你第一招 第二招都是要有教師證招不到第三招才是可以招無教師證但現在有很多沒有教師證的代理老師所以"},{"start":3271.397,"end":3287.16,"text":"有沒有那麼可能就比照偏鄉學校讓這些沒有教師證市區的代理老師他有累積一定年資也可以讓他去修這個教育學程的學分班因為現行的制度對他們來說我覺得是"},{"start":3288.53,"end":3309.785,"text":"比較困難的點在於說第一個他們可能有經濟的壓力你要他把不要去當代理老師回到學校去修碩士博士再兼教育學程這個機會成本很高第二個如果是在職專班的話其實學費他也許根本不想要讀碩士博士對不對但是他為了要修教育學程所以付這個學費去修這個學位"},{"start":3311.886,"end":3332.197,"text":"所以能不能就是像偏鄉一樣就是提供讓他們你找一些我相信有些大學願意開這樣的課程在寒暑假然後一些教育學程的學分讓他們去修那你也可以訂一個年資對不對比如說幾年嘛四年五年那為什麼要訂這個年資呢因為這個代表說他真的很熱愛這個教學環境"},{"start":3333.82,"end":3348.859,"text":"然後第二個是現在學校很多學校就是缺老師啊如果沒有缺老師不會開到三招四招五招嘛對吧所以其實我覺得對現行的制度也不會做什麼排擠啦這個我不知道次長能不能"},{"start":3349.816,"end":3376.432,"text":"這個方向其實我以為你說的就是我們偏鄉會這樣開是因為它增加誘因在偏鄉服務那假如說我們把這個誘因又放到一般的地區裡面去讓這些代理老師有這個管道的話那整個失陪制度的這種設計可能也會有一些衝擊沒有 因為我剛剛講的那些代理老師我們還跟施治師討論過沒有 我剛剛講的那些代理老師他就是市區的你就算你不讓他有這個機會修那個學問班他也不會到偏鄉啊"},{"start":3377.192,"end":3399.839,"text":"更何況現在雙北很多市區的學校也都缺代理老師啊我們上次也看到台北市台北市總不能說偏鄉了吧台北市的代理老師都到四十幾招了所以市區的問題現在也要解決啊但是多數的這個代理教師其實是有教師證的啦那多數嗎可是如果多數的都有教師證的話那怎麼會很多學校都要三招以上"},{"start":3401.073,"end":3406.818,"text":"當然我們有一些稀缺類科也會開學士候學分班不限於偏遠地區什麼時候開"},{"start":3408.1,"end":3432.305,"text":"目前就有開學士和學分班對於比較稀缺的類科那因為我們師資培育是多元機制我們還有值錢的師資培育那還有特定稀缺類科的學士和學分班那委員的建議我們那目前偏鄉的學分班以目前小教的目前報名還有將近1000人需要去開設那委員的這個意見我們必須整體就多找一些大學嘛對啊"},{"start":3432.685,"end":3460.087,"text":"我相信大學會願意開啦那值錢的培育量我們也必須考那委員我們會滾動來做思考好 謝謝那最後一個問題你們有提到說那個幼教幼教的那個教保費也會提高嘛從2000到3000你們什麼時候會實施這個已經在研議他要修要點他一樣會追溯到這個學年9月1號追溯到這個學年就對了那大概什麼時候要點會修在1月會修完1月會修完 謝謝"},{"start":3464.482,"end":3470.005,"text":"好謝謝葉元芝委員那官員請回座現在請柯志恩委員質詢謝謝趙柔我們請次長有請次長委員好"},{"start":3485.188,"end":3497.582,"text":"我剛剛聽到原治委員在質詢這個大學會開獅子培育班我是畫上個問號啦因為大部分的獅子培育班都已經快要滅頂了因為都沒有人要來修了這才是一個殘酷的現實對吧好"},{"start":3500.365,"end":3525.985,"text":"我想我们今天讨论的偏乡教育偏乡教育大概是我上任立委2016年到现在包括张亮委员一样我们对于偏乡教育的询答应该是最多的就表示它的整个结构是最弱的所以以至于我们到现在还在讨论偏乡教育不过因为有滚动式的检讨对于我们的教育还是有一些的增进不过在之前我还是要提问一些问题"},{"start":3526.986,"end":3553.916,"text":"像我要特别提到像我们最近我们高雄卫生心理卫生中心的主任前主任因为一些霸凌事件事情没有做好要求部署下跪道歉然后呢他提前退休但是呢这样子霸凌部署的主管竟然在1月5号就是前天的时候他的名字还大大的放在教育部的反霸凌人才专库当中"},{"start":3554.696,"end":3582.901,"text":"直到我提出来之后才下架请问这样子的人才库是地方政府报上来还是谁都可以做修改还是教育部为什么对这件事情反应这么慢我可不可以问一下我想这个名单是地方政府推荐我们依照规定所以这是我们高雄市的问题就是那个程序上是这样处理那我们后来在委员提出之后我们也发现这个确实对这些这个"},{"start":3583.061,"end":3599.073,"text":"那未來怎麼辦這個人才庫放在這邊以後每個人去校園裡面都從人才庫裡面找講師一個80的人還可以當講師這對教育部來說是一個非常的諷刺的一件事情 次長謝謝委員的提出我們已經在了解之後馬上就下架他的這個名字"},{"start":3599.633,"end":3618.852,"text":"以后这个部分里面的人你都应该做一个盘点对 我们会定定要点你们要定定要点要做个盘点不是地方政府送上什么你们都没有做任何既然挂上一个教育部这就是你们的责任跟角色请次长特别注意好 我们会进一步来解释还有刚刚我们特别提到了我们在这个12月31号你们对于老师的职业"},{"start":3619.232,"end":3639.303,"text":"这个职务加急导师加急坚韧的在代理代课的终点费跟增加行政公众奖金三项都有给予一些的薪资补贴我给予肯定但是但是我最重视的2024年11月所通过的这个学生辅导法我们有个附带决议希望能够给专府人员调薪到目前为止"},{"start":3641.484,"end":3669.095,"text":"然后你们给我的理由就是因为考虑类似这个职务人员的这个薪资的横评性拜托次长署长这个薪资的横评性已经讲了很多的而且社工那个协会里面也特别提到的这不不会做这样的一个影响为什么你们没有办法说服行政院给予这样子流动度很高的心理智商是跟社工是更好的一个待遇呢这问题在哪里我就觉得我们在审法在审个心酸的"},{"start":3669.855,"end":3687.936,"text":"每次通過的部分裡面然後你們告訴我沒有錢然後考慮其他的問題然後都不給我們錢那你叫這些人繼續做功德嗎 次長其實那委員的建議我們都聽到了其實也在跟行政院溝通那也開了好幾次會那到底誰哪個部會不同意先到衛福部那邊他們也有相關的能源是衛福部嗎不是 先要統一考量啦"},{"start":3690.478,"end":3710.129,"text":"這個早就是這個問題啦你們就是因為給人家的社工是薪資不夠高我們如果薪資夠高的話人家會抗議人家已經告訴你這不是問題這是一個藉口這是一個藉口所以這個問題都要怎麼解決我們都已經所有的人都在這個委員會裡面大家透過這個附帶決定同意教育部也同意啦那為什麼還是到這樣結果呢"},{"start":3711.109,"end":3733.641,"text":"目前正在加緊協調啦我們就來看看什麼時候好不好我會好好的部分你會讓很多的人我想你的關心跟教育部其實立場是一樣的啦是啊我們也會定期跟委員回報那個拜託我們的教育部我真的覺得遇到行政院都是我們教育部先讓步啦你們真的是真的大家鼓沒有讓步啦我們在溝通中啦因為有涉及到其他部會的一個"},{"start":3734.141,"end":3748.388,"text":"好 我们就看你怎么沟通那还有另外需要沟通的就是我们的校师会议1月12号已经确定会公布吧会公布你没有跟其他的教师团体都有做过充分的讨论吗会不会公布完之后更打击我们所有教师的士气呢"},{"start":3749.128,"end":3778.219,"text":"我想我们是衡量各方面那这一次最主要是要解决教师现场所谓滥诉或者是投诉本来就是而且我告诉你我们在投诉的那个建树上有做过数据的分析还有市长 署长你们都知道最近的新闻都说真的是一个这个校师会议处理不当的话真的是碾碎非常多教师的一个热情然后呢大家真的不知道现在要为谁辛苦为谁忙很多人干脆什么事都不要做我举个最基层的一个例子好的这是我"},{"start":3778.979,"end":3794.026,"text":"到教育圈现场因为目前有很多人跟我们申请举例来说目前为止来说呢因为上传学生活动的照片的公开网页然后被检举这还是包括七年前上传学生的一个照片老师要被约谈然后呢"},{"start":3794.446,"end":3821.834,"text":"各地方政府都會要求以後只要有任何跟學生影像有關的要獲得學生的一個同意這是保護個資無庸置疑但是有些學校這是過度解讀到你在運動會的時候拍學生的照片也要經過學生否則你就要用AI處理這就是很多學校在學校裡面的網站的照片就長成這個樣子嘛這像畫嗎 刺掌"},{"start":3822.815,"end":3824.206,"text":"搞成這個樣子全部都AI"},{"start":3825.959,"end":3853.691,"text":"全国有很多学校都是这样子因为你们要求人家什么地方学校的运动会学校的什么成果展只要有学生的照片老师要的话就不能够除非经过他的允许以后老师都不要帮学生拍照了不然就是变成这样子不然就要教长自己去拍搞成这样子因为学生拍了老师拍的就到校系会议里面被约谈然后呢约谈最后结果不管怎么样光是被约谈这个动作就对老师多么不尊重"},{"start":3854.491,"end":3862.186,"text":"然後地方政府就是這樣子啊你覺得這樣合理嗎 次長當然是我覺得這個是有點過頭啦"},{"start":3863.615,"end":3892.651,"text":"我告诉你啊全国你去看有很多学校的网页就是长成这个样子就是因为如果他不是这个样子的话连七年前连七年前的曾经上传学生照片在这个所谓的社交平台上面都要被检举都要被送到校师会议被询问我觉得这次校师会议里面让老师非常伤心然后很多人真的就会你只要有机会去看看所有下面老师的留言里面你就会发现其实如果"},{"start":3892.771,"end":3922.591,"text":"有非常多的辛酸如果只是传活动照片在学校网页说要进校师会这个我是不了解有这个状况不过我想在我们修法之后应该不会有这个问题来 我们修法之后不会有这个问题你要讨论这些问题我都可以告诉你这些的公文跟这些老师的辛酸是我们回到我们这个部分来完全是失去他的尊严所以我对于你1月12号所公布的所谓的校师会的改革我想非常多人都会非常的关切我希望还是能够回应给我们这个老师一个基本的尊严"},{"start":3923.872,"end":3942.245,"text":"然后我们来看看这个偏乡教育流动率高大概4.5年而且我不要说台北是什么三招四招我们偏远地区都已经到20招了还是没有人然后你看看我们代理教室的比例是非常的高所以我就特别提到这个讨论很多但是结构非常的不稳我们再往下看"},{"start":3943.286,"end":3954.885,"text":"然後我也知道彭署長也很努力要跟大家來做溝通2023年你講過這句話請問署長有關於這些我們所認的專聘教師目前你溝通的狀況是如何"},{"start":3955.879,"end":3977.99,"text":"跟委員報告一下第一點專聘老師他是代理老師那後來大家覺得用正式老師最能夠解決問題也最穩定因此這四年來我們禁用了兩萬名的正式老師所以在溝通之後有這樣的一個成效至於專聘老師他其中一個好處是能夠有公費進修的這一類的保障其實他畢竟還是代理老師"},{"start":3978.45,"end":3995.892,"text":"所以用政治老师来决定的戴笠老师他们中间只称了一个绩效奖金我告诉你这个说实在的诱因还是不足你光是看到这个部分嘉义的部分呢我们来看看这个数据嘛对不对它是两年的一个契约嘛嘉义的时候呢我们人报道嘛"},{"start":3996.192,"end":4019.174,"text":"隔年陆续离职新北仅剩下一个人来报到其他没有其他的学校来学校限时来跟进所以呢这个教师证的这个层面我们还是要慎重来考虑你虽然告诉我们说很多人都是变成正式老师的没有我告诉你专聘教师的这个制度来说的话目前他的诱因你必须从这个数字来看其实没有那么足的"},{"start":4020.235,"end":4046.767,"text":"别那么足的那当然还有包括我们往下看还有很多的问题为什么一定要坚持六年我们有没有机会稍微做一些弹性的比如说两年三年在偏乡休息之后到别的偏乡四年或三年还是可以取得戒病因为在一个学校永远留到一个六年其实很多人并不是没有热情而是来自于他的家庭因素健康因素等等的一些的因素这就都有可能反而"},{"start":4047.307,"end":4076.907,"text":"包含在内我只是认为偏乡教育的部分弹性度一定要够大每个人都是不太一样而且你们虽然给大家有九任奖金还真的叫九等奖金真的是等来等就要等很久而且因为周围已经站上来了我还是一路漏完气你们才来部分很多时候要同校服务八年否则归零这些都是没有弹性的还有往后面很重要的就是你们要落实很多时候这个点我为什么要提出来"},{"start":4077.467,"end":4106.807,"text":"因为呢因为台风天的关系很多时候你们对于一百零几年我看一下啊一百零八年以前的这个老师没有保障一百零九年学年度之后到职者你们对于他们的一些额外伤害还有包括一些等等的法规的福利都有但是呢资深的却没有照顾在内这些都是在法规年限限定问题上面你们应该去做一个检讨的嘛这有点在惩罚资深老师"},{"start":4107.627,"end":4130.949,"text":"我想這個部分我們會來我們聽到了我們一直在詢問那也會來做改善那剛才委員去提到的我們其實從106年底這個偏鄉條例上路之後其實那個老師的流動率透過正式編制的大量釋出事實上他的流動率是降低的非常明顯107年的時候國小的偏鄉這些偏鄉老師的流動率是2.1%現在是"},{"start":4134.533,"end":4148.453,"text":"1.21%降的相當多那國中的部分是從1.9%107年到113年是1.36所以它其實是我覺得這個數據跟我所認知起碼是在我第一線教書的學生的層面的流動率上"},{"start":4149.014,"end":4178.463,"text":"事实跟数据上是有一点我的认知上是有一点的差距的我需要对这个数据上面来做更深入的了解你要来提供但是的值的层面上面我刚刚特别提到了在风雨当中人家108年之前的老师通常都没有像你们得到这么多的一个福利这之后这个部分里面我就要全面否则同样一条路好不好归向失路没有道理说你有这个年限的差别就差别好不好谢谢 谢谢委员"},{"start":4178.863,"end":4206.255,"text":"我肯定你們對於一些事情的處理因為我們在2016年就在這邊就開始討論偏鄉教育如果說你在這幾年當中沒有改進數字沒有降低那我們都不知道在幹什麼但是這改進的幅度還有對於優秀老師的留任對於讓我們偏鄉的孩子不要因為老師不斷的換然後讓他們覺得沒有辦法有所依附我們共同責任可是我還是要強調目前的措施跟目前的獎勵制度非常大的改進制度"},{"start":4206.935,"end":4231.355,"text":"還有最後好最後我們就看看1月12號的校事會議因為這是決定老師士氣有沒有辦法被再次提振的最重要的關鍵好不好好謝謝委員好謝謝柯執政委員官員請回座那麻煩柯執政委員好我們現在請劉淑冰委員"},{"start":4238.049,"end":4240.171,"text":"好 謝謝主席 有請次長好 次長教委好"},{"start":4247.574,"end":4271.94,"text":"次長好我們知道106年的時候偏鄉條例偏校條例的就已經上路了那現在已經到8年的時間了那這部分我們看到他的確有很多的實行上的困難當然我也知道說剛才次長他說的是沒有錯在我們看到現在這個資料顯示出來他的這個國小國中這部分的尤其是國小的地方他的這個"},{"start":4275.302,"end":4288.41,"text":"流動率是有在下降但是事實上不管如何都可以看到是這個偏校的流動率都是比一般的學校地區要高那特別是到有些你看到100以國中來講的話是到110到122年他甚至達到兩倍的情況"},{"start":4294.173,"end":4314.899,"text":"那這個部分就會考慮到是說有做但是效果還是尤其在國中部分是非常的嚴重的那這邊就是要請教的是次長就在說這個問題怎麼樣的去處理就是說我們現在看到的是你有9任獎金那每年我看到的是教育部提供了40億的預算"},{"start":4316.88,"end":4337.971,"text":"那流動率這麼高的原因我們看到求任獎金他現在要求是偏鄉的老師服務要滿8年才給第一次的這樣的獎金但是剛才也聽到的事實上我們也看到的是目前在偏鄉地區的老師大概留任的情況是4到5年除非是公費的不然的話根本就拿到不到這個獎金那包括第二次的"},{"start":4338.911,"end":4352.182,"text":"第二次的獎金到服務老們11年你們在算定那個有任獎金的這樣的一個機制是怎麼樣去算出來的是不是要重新去計算不然沒辦法達到這個效果"},{"start":4353.052,"end":4378.908,"text":"我想是有達到效果一定的效果當然委員都希望說能夠更加會的層面能夠更廣但細節的考慮我們是不是請署長來做一個回答好 請署長剛剛還提到考慮8年 11年這一類的數字第一個剛剛委員也有平均到譬如說離島建設條例是6年剛剛一般而言平均會到4至6年有些平均5年"},{"start":4379.989,"end":4404.315,"text":"那這個如果按照一般的平均那就是沒有辦法視為9任是所以第一點8年的決定有一點是按照委員會的討論之後8年算是適當那應該是修改囉但是如果未來在檢視的過程中隨著時代的變遷各種地方包含一般跟偏鄉它的這個誘因拉力已經變化這些我們都可以再檢討"},{"start":4405.935,"end":4423.893,"text":"那你們是三年之內檢討嗎我們的三年會檢討一次但是每年都在召開分區的會議那有各種那像委員在立法院我們這邊提的我們當然會列入考慮就希望說這邊的年次的這個結果就是每年都能夠提供到教育委員會來是可以嗎可以"},{"start":4424.213,"end":4452.511,"text":"好 謝謝那我們繼續再往下看呢就出現到的是另外呢就是說有很多的這樣的一些獎勵啦有看到到說包括有這個變成吧鼓勵變成是正式教師嘛對不對就是源而這樣下去但是我們看到的是教師的這個專業的部分因為現在很多的教師呢他是並不是就是正式的這個教師那他留下來是他反而是有願景想要留下來但是他沒有這樣的師資沒有這樣的合格的教師證"},{"start":4453.371,"end":4470.053,"text":"或是說它尤其在偏鄉地區那這部分我們看到是說這些施培的進修的課程都集中在六都舟車勞頓才修得到那當然我也希望說問到是說它是不是有線上的課程它目前的修課狀況還有偏鄉的實體分布如果還在六都的話他們在屏東怎麼可能到"},{"start":4471.114,"end":4492.245,"text":"到台高雄或者是說你到花蓮你要到哪裡去上課這部分是不是有一個這樣的一個實際上面的數據跟我們來說明一下謝謝委員的關心其實您提到這個在我們偏鄉條例上路之後其實很多地方也都在反映所以我們現在其實類似的那個師培大學其實已經開設到你剛才提到屏東的這個屏東大學也有"},{"start":4494.986,"end":4518.366,"text":"那像东区的在台湾东部的东华大学也有那像这个南台科大也有就是我们现在其实连云林都有开可是如果在原住民区区怎么办当然那个地方那没办法事实上那线上课程呢我们现在其实有线上远距而且那个远距的那个比例也慢慢在放宽到二分之一的结束是可以用远距来上课是承认的对"},{"start":4518.746,"end":4536.316,"text":"所以這個比例是不是可以對 我們其實一直在做彈性的調整也跟我們開課的這些大學一起去研商當然有考慮到整個進修的這個品質那目前為止已經就是剛才跟委員報告的已經到了50%他可以在線上來修習這個學分"},{"start":4539.638,"end":4563.692,"text":"如果教育部有做的話我們必須要看到相關的資料因為這樣才可以知道說我們會有可以提供給委員好 謝謝另外的部分就在於說偏鄉的條件不好的部分在於說生活條件尤其是在交通的補助這部分我們有看到是說每年給了實際上的補助一年應該是有到三億"},{"start":4565.878,"end":4570.815,"text":"每個學校大概有40大概有 我看一下"},{"start":4572.438,"end":4600.061,"text":"每個學校的話是三 設備的話是三年兩百萬那如果交通補助的部分呢是是有交通可進性的部分呢應該是有幾 應該有二十萬 二十五萬二十五萬那這部分的時候就是在交通補助的因為是屬於生活條件的部分那包括交通補助這邊有沒有實際上面是對你們當初有個規劃是如果公車可以到一公里的地方的話你們就不予補助到他的這個交通費嘛"},{"start":4600.541,"end":4629.015,"text":"那这部分是不是有在因为他公车到了但是他并不是全时的24小时都有那怎么样的去应呼应到他真正让他拿得到这些交通补助跟委员补充两点那老师的类似这种教学交通的福利我们不要用这种公车这种设算太复杂了我们用学期学年用整学期给他不要2000 4000这一类的算法"},{"start":4629.535,"end":4649.393,"text":"比较完善那也比较少行政的复课第二点是我们加盖宿舍整修宿舍让老师不用多花那么多的住宿费用那也可以就近就在学校教学所以两项措施在去年年底都已经发布了那最近如果有一些成效我定期跟赵伟再回报"},{"start":4650.053,"end":4667.9,"text":"因為這個部分我想不是說給教育委員會或是我個人本席而是這個部分應該是要定期的公開在教育部的網站上面說你們對偏鄉的學校的發展照顧這部分包括的是交通的補助然後包括是在宿舍的達成因為我們知道"},{"start":4669.82,"end":4686.385,"text":"前幾天到宜蘭去看的時候就是學校裡面竟然是有宿舍有蓋出來不錯但是裡面的設備並沒有完善這部分就請教育部這邊要去把共定期公告讓一般的民眾或是說教師他們就知道說教育部真的有在做這些事情好 我們會持續來做"},{"start":4687.273,"end":4705.327,"text":"好 那另外的部分我再提到是我們本黨或者是說這個部分也包括了是郭剛才所說相對於就是剛才我說的交通可靜性生活機能跟社會經濟客觀的條件的部分應該你們都有在做可是三年的部分我看到是113年到115年有時候學校有一千多將近一千兩百多學校"},{"start":4706.348,"end":4720.203,"text":"那你們這部分是不是也有定期的說我們本辦看到說你們只有學校數字可是對全部的相關的這個整體的報告公開性 開放性好像不夠這不是不是可以也在網上做公告呢"},{"start":4721.128,"end":4741.854,"text":"我们相关的资料都会在统计没有区分到那么细但是一个整体的数据里面都可以看得出来整体的教育统计年报里面其实有些哪些是属于偏乡学校非三非四那它里面的那个师资源的配置学生人数等等都有都可以能够拿出来讨论"},{"start":4742.654,"end":4762.106,"text":"但是没有一个专门说是偏乡地区我想我建议在特别在针对偏乡地区因为这个部分也是因为教育的为国本的那偏乡地区现在占到我们选个全部学校的数字应该占到三分之一嘛那这个这样的一个高数字的话也呈现到说我们对于学校的在每个地方都没有在做放弃离岛跟偏乡的地区都是很重要的"},{"start":4762.446,"end":4780.207,"text":"那另外呢這另外也要了解一下這個有關於本黨的一個意見就是說版本裡面對偏鄉的學校的這個自辦甄選跟禁用代理教室這邊那教育部這邊還是證據說還是用地方政府你們給我本就是說書面報告當中是常常說在地方政府那對於在"},{"start":4781.108,"end":4807.222,"text":"對於給讓學校自辦甄選這個方式你們覺得是說 事實上你們在做的是在減少學校自己的行政負擔嗎但是如果說一個地方政府應該屏東的從北邊到南邊這麼擴這麼大概有大概100多公里的這樣的一個相近到就非常長的距離這個部分這個是不是也可以考慮到二選一或是怎麼樣的情況是針對這邊在提供你們的答案"},{"start":4807.702,"end":4808.807,"text":"這個是有彈性的 是有彈性的嗎 馮署長"},{"start":4813.888,"end":4842.871,"text":"委員我先跟您報告也澄清一下一百零六年設計專聘老師但是時到現在最近四年縣市都用正式老師會比較安定當地的實質穩定所以這兩年已經禁用了一萬人這四年禁用了兩萬人所以專聘老師這一個制度我們能夠盡量協助但地方政府想到他就直接聘正式因為專聘畢竟是代理"},{"start":4843.191,"end":4860.077,"text":"我知道我現在的問題剛才我也聽到我現在的問題是說如果他自辦甄選就直接就當他有這個名額就誰是議員是他所以第二點是委員如果在剛才的前提確認下還要要求或是希望地方政府你來辦代理老師即便是專聘2加2加2加6"},{"start":4861.997,"end":4886.066,"text":"這個對地方的整體考量我們會尊重他不會去強制他你非辦不可因此下一層次他要怎麼辦那會是地方政府他整體的考慮他會優先想到是正式的正式的好這樣的部分呢我想給了一個非常方向正確的一個處理那我們這邊之後有這樣的相關的在法律上面的一個修訂的時候我們就來在座討論好謝謝李秀川的一個說明謝謝"},{"start":4888.639,"end":4905.439,"text":"好 謝謝次長好 謝謝昭偉接下來我們請伍麗華委員好 謝謝主席有請次長有請次長"},{"start":4910.021,"end":4918.747,"text":"委員好次長好謝謝今天特別安排這個偏鄉條例的一個詢問"},{"start":4940.321,"end":4960.43,"text":"教育部的态度是怎么样我们其实每年都在开分区的会议每年我们也看到委员提供了很多版本事实上在提供版本之后不管是对师资或者对偏乡学校的一些补助或者条件等等我们其实都一直在透过执法行政措施等等来做精进好"},{"start":4960.97,"end":4983.52,"text":"那在修法上像委員提到的像有些場所像司馬庫斯那個建築分區其實那個我們也很認同但是我覺得修法有時候反而是反不及急那我們反而會去希望能夠協調地方政府譬如說他在結構安全上他得到一些證書或者是他的安全性都無虞的空間下我們當然會"},{"start":4984.62,"end":5012.883,"text":"用其他的方式我們會予以協助就是說也把它認定那這部分我想委員的建議我們修法當然是長久的那個制度的設計的考慮就像剛才跟好幾位委員回答事實上我們這幾年來投入大量的資源每年40億不但改善了偏鄉學校的基礎設施對於教師流動率的下降其實也有很顯著的跟一般的地區的教師流動率來比較來講那個偏鄉地區下降的那個幅度是相當大的"},{"start":5013.263,"end":5037.158,"text":"所以這個也是立了偏鄉條例之後給了資源之後在偏鄉裡面產生的一些改進當然還有很多問題我們透過分區會議來蒐集委員的意見我們也會來參註好 謝謝次長不論講修法緩不濟急還是說到底我們當初立這個法我們想要達成的目標有沒有獲得改善"},{"start":5037.978,"end":5057.573,"text":"我們不得而知但是我們確實看到很多的條文是形同虛設像大家最愛舉的這個例子也是現場教師很關切的就是一個只存在條文中的專聘教師這四個字真的很多人不理解"},{"start":5058.314,"end":5082.845,"text":"那我去看了一下文字他文字是提到了最主要的關鍵是由主管機關採公開甄選方式可以禁用代理教師或以契約的專聘教師那麼他的母法裡面也沒有規定說一定要有教師證但是他的聘任辦法有提到有規定要合格教師的資格"},{"start":5083.425,"end":5098.823,"text":"那这个到底重不重要他们也觉得蛮重要为什么因为我们看到专聘教师他除了要有合格教师证现分发偏乡学校他也有晋级制度有考级奖金"},{"start":5099.784,"end":5115.012,"text":"可以公費進修然後任滿六年可以參加專任教師甄選有加分這確實很好很多人呢看到這個他是有誘因的但是就是奇怪啊全台專聘教師的人數就是零"},{"start":5115.732,"end":5142.088,"text":"那這個零大家也都知道出在哪裡就是縣市主管機關他沒有辦公開甄選那你說這些代課老師喜不喜歡公開甄選 喜歡因為他們也不喜歡到處奔波他們也喜歡集中考試所以我不太曉得說剛才次長您說了我們有更好的一個解決的方式不需要修法 緩不濟濟那您認為這一條要怎麼改善"},{"start":5142.711,"end":5168.692,"text":"其实专聘教师在当年我们那时候都也是立法院在设计的时候其实就会有一些不同的看法坦白讲那现在专聘教师为什么这个制度比较没有在使用的原因是因为地方政府大量是那个正式的缺所以说在偏乡学校过去以代理教师为主的这个教师生态里面其实这几年是有一些改善的就是说他因为你用正式缺的保障绝对比"},{"start":5169.412,"end":5187.942,"text":"那个用专聘教师他的这种两年两年两年这样子的一个制度会比较好其实我会提这个问题您看一下偏乡学士后学分班我们看数据来说话像以110年度来看报名的人数"},{"start":5189.042,"end":5207.288,"text":"跟正取的人數其實落差還是有的表示不是說隨便報名就隨便可以考上你甚至看到114年度最近的你可以看國立嘉義大學他開一班他其實被取是206人錄取50人"},{"start":5210.194,"end":5234.776,"text":"所以這個偏鄉學授學分班他是公佈應求的在小教的部分是更為明顯的可是我們來看現行的時候他有所謂的全額補助三年內要至少在偏鄉四學期那麼他就要自費的話在同一個縣市要滿六學期然後待課呢年資還不算要代理教師所以"},{"start":5235.416,"end":5257.548,"text":"很多的老師他其實是很在意的並不是不在意的所以當這樣的時候我們作為一個教育的主管機關市長您還能夠說修法緩不及急嗎我想這個有關那個師資培育的部分委員關心的部分我們是不是請那個市長來回答其實委員關心的我們也有待討論好不好"},{"start":5259.08,"end":5278.486,"text":"謝謝委員的關心也因為各位委員的關心我們在今年度也開設了將近500個名額在小教的部分的確是呈現還有將近900多人我直接講其實偏鄉教師他很在意的就是他已經在夠偏遠的地區服務"},{"start":5279.366,"end":5297.767,"text":"他很在意能不能去进修能不能公费进修市长你应该明白我的意思所以我们现在有比较友善的方式譬如包括线上线上的课程有二分之一以上我就是要提其实我们都很了解线上对于一个老师的学习来讲"},{"start":5298.408,"end":5315.419,"text":"其實他不見得能夠有很好的吸收他還是希望能夠好好的去進修所以我覺得站在偏鄉教育品質的一個立場跟偏鄉教師的一個權益我還是希望說修正一下就是"},{"start":5315.919,"end":5344.025,"text":"不論自費他的就讀資格還是要跟補助生要對齊啊就是例如你說你願意去修在偏鄉三年服務滿四個月四個學期他就可以去或者是說很多的待課老師他其實他的年資如果不採記的話是不符現狀因為偏鄉的待課老師很多都是一個星期超過20節那你至少設一個樓地板面積讓他可以採記那次長"},{"start":5344.505,"end":5359.795,"text":"这个部分您觉得你愿意来去做修正吗当然可以来修正我想我们现在宗教班的部分其实就降了两个学期就是也是因为委员还有一些地方的反应所以我们也根据报名人数入局人数跟需求我们做一些改"},{"start":5360.135,"end":5380.146,"text":"做一些条件的一些好那我还是希望拿到报告因为大家在这边听就是希望能够解决改善那像刚才您提到我一直长期关心的偏乡教育条例第十二条我希望能够参考长照服务机构的一个许可及惯例办法第十六条"},{"start":5380.706,"end":5409.872,"text":"用安全结构我要跟市长讲您说的缓不及急这个我们会不我五年前就进入要帮忙要修法一直没办法我也去县政府我也跟局长他们说要帮忙五年了我今天早上打电话给他们他们说他们今天两度气温两度斯马库斯的孩子你可以看照片不少他们到现在都是黑学校"},{"start":5411.521,"end":5437.294,"text":"都是一个不合法的学校那我觉得一个不合法的学校如果有一天他们真的发生了什么事情我们教育部情何以堪我想委员可能有误解我想还不自己去说我们当然12条修法的这个方向我们是同意的是支持的我是觉得但是就是说现在要解决现场目前的问题我们可以内政部今天好像也有代表过来对"},{"start":5438.715,"end":5458.474,"text":"也许有一些条文大家有意见但是有一些没有意见的条文形同句文的我其实都觉得可以修那最后我就是要提到天香九刃奖金因为代理教师有了专辅老师有了社工也有了但是学校里头的教练啊护理师啊"},{"start":5459.505,"end":5476.438,"text":"真的情何以堪我真的是希望說如果我們能夠有一個法源的一個依據在偏鄉教育條約裡面我相信大家都很願意一同的來為這些偏鄉努力久任的這些教職教育人員"},{"start":5477.399,"end":5498.723,"text":"不是教職還包括教育人員其實護理是公有大家都是學校的教育人員希望能夠一同的讓他們在那個地方好好的服務但是我最近接到很多陳情因為年底有一些縣市發公文他說滿8年的計算是到114年12月7號問題是很多校長的調動是7月31號到期8月1號要調到其他的學校已經飛偏了"},{"start":5506.204,"end":5527.361,"text":"又或者是老師呢他65歲退休了就差那麼幾天幾個月就沒有辦法領到9任獎金當然我不贊成因為這個制度的設計是為了要9任像那種調動的你說要去追溯他的比例我不贊同因為我們就是希望他滿8年嘛但是像這種特殊狀況不可抗力的"},{"start":5530.063,"end":5545.338,"text":"那導致他無法差幾天差幾個月他沒有辦法領到9任獎金我不曉得次長您的看法如何能不能夠去按年資領取部分比例的9任獎金這個可以來研究我們來研究好 謝謝特殊的個案我們來研究"},{"start":5547.64,"end":5562.277,"text":"那最後一個就是偏鄉教育條例的第19條有提到要編列預算辦理偏遠地區學校教育狀況調查研究然後每三年要辦理全國偏遠地區的教育會議那我就直接講"},{"start":5563.578,"end":5590.688,"text":"因為我要質詢我要調資料我調不到關於偏鄉的代理教室的數據這個應該就是沒有依照第19條去做這樣的調查所以我覺得這個部分如果我們連偏鄉學校的無證代理的比例人數都沒有辦法掌握我不曉得說我們偏鄉教育條例要怎麼樣去檢討做出符合我們要的教育政策"},{"start":5591.368,"end":5609.513,"text":"所以在這裡我還是希望說能夠每兩年定期辦理偏遠地區教育的狀況調查然後資料有學歷表現學習資源師資流動學生流動文化融入社區參與等等指標然後建立一個偏鄉教育的公開"},{"start":5610.973,"end":5627.698,"text":"以表版或推動偏鄉資料的開放研究計畫或者發展偏鄉教育的指標系統那我這個部分是我的訴求那我知道質詢時間已經不夠了那我希望這個就次長您簡單回答該不該做好"},{"start":5628.058,"end":5647.898,"text":"其實在偏鄉交易會議裡面我們不管是分區或者三年一度的會議裡面那個資料都會在開會裡面來呈現那有些沒有公開的這個沒有在儀表板裡面特別去標註偏鄉一方面也是擔心說這個會有一些標籤的問題就是說我們希望但是至少我要質詢我就要不到資料"},{"start":5648.752,"end":5670.089,"text":"可以可以要到我们刚才包括那个统计处的那个我们刚才提到那没有关系就给我一个书面报告那我还是要最后做结论就是我长期强调偏乡教育真的根本之道就是在地人才在地培育在地长期留用我真的我真的这是我的"},{"start":5671.195,"end":5693.3,"text":"我們現在會往這個方向來做真的需要這樣子那我真的很希望就是我們可以新增第六條之一之類的就是跟地方的大學設一個偏鄉在地師資養成班優先的錄取在地青年結合在地的實習就業的留任保證我希望我們偏鄉不是只有"},{"start":5694,"end":5716.517,"text":"讓老師來而是自己培養出來我覺得這才是根本之道也是當年要開始推動偏鄉教育條例當時我還是一個偏鄉的老師校長我當年就是一直這樣訴求我認為要這樣子做這個偏鄉教育缺乏老師的困境才有辦法解決好不好謝謝委員的建議現在屏東大學那邊也有這樣的專班"},{"start":5719.419,"end":5742.38,"text":"謝謝那個是我很高興的那個也是我爭取的但是我是希望說能夠全面來做那因為最近中央總預算還在卡關那財化法也卡關我是代替很多縣市政府學校在問就是三張EQ還有有機食材這些那學校你們有沒有掌握到各地學校的狀況"},{"start":5743.581,"end":5772.364,"text":"细节我请署长我们其实是已经都跟地方有谈过了大概也从他们预算里面看出有些县市的编列的状况那么也在协助地方的相关的单位里面跟地方政府要求那还是说明一下因为很多学校就是有点紧张简单的讲我们会去用114年的预算做对照如果有差额的部分我们会行文给他那个编列数请他们做垫付好谢谢谢谢市长署长谢谢主席"},{"start":5774.093,"end":5791.187,"text":"謝謝武麗華委員那官員請回座謝謝委員們都很專心把各種之前跟教育部相關的問題就在年度將戒指而有會產生的新問題就回應都蠻好的好我們現在請陳秀寶委員召委質詢謝謝主席請張廖次長請張廖次長"},{"start":5802.162,"end":5825.037,"text":"好委員好次長好先跟您說新年快樂新年快樂但是在新的一年的開始本期非常關心的就是這個在野黨因為擋住了115年總預算那造成我們115年到現在已經是1月7號今天是來到今年度的第二週了但是我們立法院到現在還沒有審查115年的中央政府總預算"},{"start":5825.757,"end":5836.677,"text":"我想請教次長就115年的預算還沒有審那教育部我們有多少新興計畫受阻那會造成什麼樣的影響目前有沒有什麼辦法可以彌補或是目前只能停滯"},{"start":5837.759,"end":5864.045,"text":"譬如像這個大專校院的老舊校舍這部分的整修我們有編那這次這個是新興計畫像污染機產業的教育這個也是新興計畫像這個竹苗地區有一些高中高等學校的這個補助還有這個有一些高中學校建置要設這個污水跟排水系統的設備這就屬於新興的啦那還有一些智慧雨林產業創生人才教育育成的這些計畫有好幾項"},{"start":5865.265,"end":5879.923,"text":"所以我们其实我们在新的年度我们列了很多的新兴计划但是因为这个预算的关系新兴计划这五项大概就占了31亿就只能先停滞了目前没有办法我大概听一下刚才您的这个回复"},{"start":5881.024,"end":5898.322,"text":"那像针对学生学习环境的安全的这个影响的这个补助高中学校建设及校舍改善污水排水计划这个部分我看了一下资料它是说会有46校的大专院校及60校的国立高中受到影响喔"},{"start":5898.662,"end":5921.324,"text":"这都是学校他迫切需要真的还是要呼吁一下在野党即便说教育部你们的原有的计划是可以动之的但是关于这个新兴计划的部分卡关对学生的这个学习环境学习相关的一些设备充实还是会有一定的影响因为我们像相关的像耐震不足的校舍老座建筑都没有办法进行改善"},{"start":5921.724,"end":5950.664,"text":"我们现在地震很常发生风灾也都通常蛮严重的对我们的学校的环境这个安全疑虑是很大的那刚才次长你有提到一个新建计划就是配合经济部推动这个无人载具产业发展统筹计划这个部分我知道我们彰化县有受到补助就是补助你们总共有补助了14个校次要采购一些无人机的相关设备这个影响到我们彰化县一些人才培育的这个相关的计划"},{"start":5951.184,"end":5967.774,"text":"那還有就是除了這些校園的安全之外學習的權益之外我想要請教次長說剛剛講的說這些相關的計畫只能停滯那以後呢以後有什麼相關的經費可以來彌補這些目前停滯的計畫嗎"},{"start":5969.537,"end":5997.837,"text":"按照法令的限制就是没有办法新型计划就是没有办法开始所以这边其实我还是要提醒呼吁下战野党就是不要因为这个政治的利益影响到我们孩子受教的权益谢谢文官那次长我再请教你之前我们教育部有推动一个有13篇的试读中国的这个教材这个辅助教材预计在去年9月之后要上路请问有没有如期上路目前推动情形怎么样"},{"start":5998.297,"end":6014.545,"text":"我們目前是請這個學科的老師來做研習那也來因為那是新編的教材所以我們也是請他們做一些回饋那有一些可以著語修正的部分我們會著修所以現在是說先請教師來做相關的研習那針對我們相關的內容那學校現場教學現場老師可以提供相關的意見來調整"},{"start":6023.51,"end":6044.679,"text":"其實針對這個試讀中國的教材的推動本席發現我看一下媒體相關報導是有完全不同的狀況那我們中央社算是以真實的民調結果來指出有近六成的民眾是支持開發教材來加強學生的國家認同國際上的新聞我看到香港的新聞它只說台灣各界是有強烈反彈"},{"start":6045.379,"end":6073.289,"text":"所以這兩篇報導是完全相反的方向市長您認為是什麼原因造成這個完全不同方向的報導我想就像委員提供的資料裡面我們其實是多數的民意機構的調查是認同就是說其實不管是老師或學生他們其實有一個正確的國家認同能夠強化中小學生的一個國家認同所以我們在開發這教材的時候其實也非常小心也透過"},{"start":6074.969,"end":6092.176,"text":"符合課綱的精神然後請學科中心的老師來討論甚至來收集資料然後能夠做研發然後彼此之間還有一些討論做修正所以是非常嚴謹的我們在有些已經在有的其實已經到學校去做這種"},{"start":6092.776,"end":6117.502,"text":"一次性的演講譬如說在週會或者說在一些特殊的場合裡面我們也知道其實現在教學的現場也有不同的老師也好家長也好都有不同的政治立場所以我們也很希望它那個教材是一個比較中立性的但到目前為止在試推的結果還沒有說因為這樣子學生回去跟家長或老師去提出說檢舉或抗議的所以"},{"start":6117.822,"end":6135.075,"text":"基本上我們在研發這個補充教材第一個是遵守108課綱的精神第二個我們當然在收集資料上也透過學科中心的教師互相辯證然後很嚴謹地來研發其實以次長您的回答也表示說我們相關的教材也納入了多方的意見來參考而且會來調整"},{"start":6137.557,"end":6155.061,"text":"那當然面對這個不同的這個方向的這個報導呢可能是中國的認知作戰也可能是香港的媒體根本不了解我們台灣的現況但無論如何本席都覺得說我現在講的說除了這個世獨中國教材其實媒體世獨對我們孩子們也一樣的重要"},{"start":6155.421,"end":6171.075,"text":"我们需要教育我们的孩子如何辨别假新闻假讯息让我们的孩子有这些相关的媒体试读的素养不会被假的这个媒体内容所蒙蔽所以我这边要请教次长说我们是不是可以严密推动媒体试读教材谢谢"},{"start":6171.235,"end":6185.506,"text":"其實媒體試讀目前在依據課綱精神他也是很重要的素養所以在很多的國高中其實都已經有一些前導學校也都有很好的一個課程設計那甚至我們對我們那個相關的那個"},{"start":6186.874,"end":6214.729,"text":"终身师也有一些规划所以其实媒体试读这部分在学校里面我们现在是说除了前导学校中心学校以外我们当然是就像委员所讲的非常重要所以我们也希望能够扩大所以会演绎就是相关的这个媒体试读的教材因为其实我们孩子有这样基本的媒体试读的素养的话除了协助孩子们更加清楚的了解我们的国家认同及国际情势各种假信息对 分辨假信息的这个能力我希望说那"},{"start":6215.269,"end":6240.702,"text":"這個教育部是不是三個月內你有個書面報告給本席辦公室讓我了解說你們大概怎麼回話因為我在前天有一天早上六點多有個家長非常要緊的打電話給我他是兩個學生的阿公一個在念國中一個在念高中他說孩子們回來跟他說老師說那阿公爬來六千塊要導航我說這是什麼答案這是什麼這種做法他說學校老師說的"},{"start":6241.582,"end":6267.753,"text":"所以我覺得這個非常重要這個不管是對試讀中國對媒體的這個相關的試讀的這個辨識和能力我覺得是非常重要因為學生如果有這樣子錯誤的訊息進來他無法試讀無法辨識的話我覺得對於這個國家的認同造成混淆我覺得這是一個很不好的影響好那現在因為我時間有限我們趕快接下來回到我們偏遠地區學校施政這個問題"},{"start":6269.554,"end":6292.384,"text":"目前我們教育部現有的失陪公費生制度呢其實應該也可以說是為了保障偏遠或特殊地區學校的學生的受教權益因為我們規定這個公費生接受偏遠地區學校的聘任呢實際應該服務6年以上才可以提出接聘到非偏遠地區那根據教育部這邊的統計呢112年的公費生培育人數是350人"},{"start":6293.664,"end":6299.869,"text":"那根據地方縣市政府統計106年到112年偏遠地區學校公費教師屆滿及未屆滿服務年限調離的有162人平均每年是調離23人等於說每年培育公費生的他是每年培育公費生的6.57%那這邊要探討是說針對公費生的留任屆滿調離或是未屆滿調離的原因我們教育部你們有沒有實際上去了解"},{"start":6320.063,"end":6336.017,"text":"有沒有一個追蹤機制來回饋檢討公費生的制度或是我們要釐清真正說偏遠地區的教師他教學現場教學環境或是生活上的差異我們才能夠隨時的來調整他們就是比較適合他們的制度"},{"start":6336.477,"end":6358.452,"text":"所以的确委员关心的没有错这个资料所显示的也是一个很重要的议题所以我们现在也会设立一个平台来像委员讲的我们来追踪了解增加它的诱因然后诱因不足的部分譬如说在培育的阶段我们其实最近也有一些措施比如提高公费生的补助如果过去它的门槛就是"},{"start":6360.793,"end":6377.882,"text":"賠一點錢就離開了那當然就會比較他就很容易就離開尤其最近那個學校大量開缺這個也有一些影響所以我們會來檢討市長其實偏鄉教室常年都有流動率很高的問題那在上一屆會期我們那個教文委員會也開過這個關於偏鄉教育的這個公聽會"},{"start":6382.665,"end":6411.01,"text":"那很多教師啊協會有反映偏鄉的現場的問題例如說這些教師通常還要身兼行政啊校務啊雜務那麼剛到教育現場就會承擔到這麼高的壓力那同一個學校呢同一個偏鄉學校要6年以上才能夠借聘他校8年以上才有9任獎金他同樣留在偏鄉只要他不是同一個學校他的年資是中斷他是並沒有辦法累計總年資當然反映最多的就是說"},{"start":6411.81,"end":6432.521,"text":"薪資跟工作的負擔沒有成正比所以說針對這些相關的這些問題我們有沒有一一的去研議面對這些問題我們改善的方案委員所提到的有些個案顯示的一些制度上的一些落差譬如說偏鄉的學校掉偏鄉的學校算不算久任這個我們都有開會討論那也都放寬認定"},{"start":6435.417,"end":6463.249,"text":"我想教師也會覺得就是說現在偏鄉教師的這些相關的措施都著重在留人的這個思維那也表示說我們教育單位就覺得說同一個教師持續的在一個地方任教對孩子的教育相較於教師流動呢同一個教師是比較有注意的那所以這邊也希望說教育部呢你們是不是針對如何穩定師資我們提出相應的這個配套那因為我"},{"start":6464.229,"end":6488.459,"text":"主席已經站起來了我希望說你們對剛才提到這些問題每一個不同的問題我們都需要一一的去了解為什麼有這樣的問題產生我想這幾年來我們開了23次的分區跟全區的一個偏向會也收集了很多意見在立法院我們每一個會期幾乎我們都會排相關的專報所以我們收集到的意見但是收集到的意見我們要有辦法去解決它"},{"start":6490.339,"end":6507.851,"text":"市長這樣 你們請將你們收集到的訊息這些相關的資訊以及教育部所做因應調整的規劃你彙整之後 一份報告給我們辦公室可以 我們再請那個委員需要的話 我們會提供好 謝謝 謝謝市長 謝謝主席好 謝謝曾舊寶召委請官員回座 謝謝你喝水 喝水"},{"start":6518.178,"end":6534.075,"text":"請葛如君委員質詢謝主席有請張亮萬堅次長請次長"},{"start":6539.813,"end":6553.843,"text":"委員好市長首先要感謝教育部在去年的最後一天也就是2024年的12月31號全面的宣布了要來調整兼任級待課教師的終點費謝謝漲幅大約是20%國小336調到40國中378調到455高中420調到505本席先前數次關心這個議題回顧近20年來台灣的基本工資大幅調漲2022"},{"start":6569.514,"end":6573.277,"text":"2006到2026的這20年間時薪從66塊調升到196元這樣的漲幅我想次長應該很清楚是197%相較之下我國的教師終點費國高中35年來僅調整過一次高中從400塊調到420塊國中360調到378漲幅"},{"start":6594.872,"end":6616.721,"text":"5%那國小則是調整兩次260調到336漲幅29%那20年來教師的這個終點費漲幅真的是遠遠落後基本薪資可以說是少得可憐那本次的漲幅雖然沒有達成各界的期待但還是要再次的謝謝教育部這一次調漲讓兼任以及待課教師的終點費"},{"start":6619.566,"end":6624.423,"text":"從漲18塊只能買一支原汁筆後來才知道這個果汁筆現在要四五十塊一支了"},{"start":6625.529,"end":6651.131,"text":"到了我們現在的漲了 可以買一支立可白那我們本來想說 說漲69塊可以買一支立可白結果咧 現在立可白都90塊啦所以漲69塊 一支立可白還買不起這20%的漲幅 對兼任教師 代課教師雖然我們還是很感謝 但是是一小步那顯然對教育部來說 好像是很了不起的一大步調檔金額總算從一位數"},{"start":6652.844,"end":6678.074,"text":"的這個percentage 漲到兩位數這個還是不錯但是如果有一天調漲金額能夠來到三位數我們剛剛講基本工資漲了197%如果真的能漲到三位數我們真的是要普天同慶幫教育部放煙火我甚至如果真的有這麼一天三位數如果我還在這 次長也在這我就cosplay次長來感謝你因為今天部長沒來我就不cosplay他了"},{"start":6678.954,"end":6707.611,"text":"那除了關心兼任以及代課教師的權益我們要在此關心全體高中以下教師的權益以教育部公布兼任代課教師的中典費調漲的同時網路上也有許多的教師發出不平之名他們除了教學工作以外還有很多人要擔任導師還有我們一直在講的行政工作要減量他們還是持續的肩負那本席要在此替他們發聲請問次長教育部這一次宣布調漲兼任以及代課教師的中典費"},{"start":6708.251,"end":6726.897,"text":"要回溯到2025年的9月1號起生效有許多老師在論壇上反映目前老師請試假或是少於三天的病假都是自己付終點費給代課教師難道這些去年請假的老師還要再補扣款給代課教師嗎這當中的終點費的價差應該要如何支應"},{"start":6731.778,"end":6752.034,"text":"那對於這個本席的詢問就業部的答覆可以說避重就輕說本次終點費的調整還是要讓教師的終點費自行負擔但是到底回溯的部分是不是正式教師也要回溯再把口袋裡的錢掏出來補給代課教師"},{"start":6753.795,"end":6776.554,"text":"教育部沒有正面回覆喔所以我們現在只好來當面問次長到底這當中終點費的價差如何認定如何支應我想回溯的部分我們沒有一個對這個學校的所謂的統一指導因為那個拆勤系統裡面你要查得出來說老師那個請假是有正式經過拆勤系統的"},{"start":6777.114,"end":6795.216,"text":"如果是有的話學校有提報基本上它的價差是由中央跟地方政府各50%的負擔要看學校的系統所以學校比較差的那就就老師自己掏錢了是這個意思嗎當然是不是所以如果是一致適用就是一致適用如果是老師私底下"},{"start":6796.197,"end":6822.989,"text":"这种我们怎么去知道说老师有没有透过那个我觉得如果有个别学校有这种私底下的问题我觉得如果老师正式教师是不得已的我觉得教育部还是有责任希望你们还是要全盘的了解一个整体的状态否则不能是你们发的红包是让正式教师口袋里掏钱出来支付我们是编预算来支付的"},{"start":6823.269,"end":6837.485,"text":"這一點可不可以全面的來確認一下不要讓有正式教師在網路上面搞不清楚狀況最後還真的掏錢了不會有這種情況吧回溯的這個部分回溯的部分那因為是過去了嘛"},{"start":6838.086,"end":6866.446,"text":"所以委員反映的這個問題的確要關心那這個我們會跟地方政府就剛剛次郎有講到他是在拆勤上是正式有登錄的那比較好認定嘛沒有啦這個我們會來一起跟地方一起處理你不要發紅包是中央在發講到有責任要比較複雜的就說是地方請中央肩負起這個責任一起來好不好一起來好不好因為你沒有國力也有私力嘛就一起那我想鄭子老師的待遇最新一次的調漲是114年的軍工教條薪3%"},{"start":6867.987,"end":6891.939,"text":"那如果兼任和待課教師的中年費調漲20%要從這個部分的正職老師口袋身上出來這個有點康他人之慨我相信這也不是教育部的目的啦對吧所以我想教育部宣布這個紅包啊紅包裡的錢呢不要由正職老師的口袋來出回溯這兩字也是你們寫的你們要就搞清楚不要回復我們的文件呢不清不楚讓老師也搞不清楚狀況"},{"start":6892.839,"end":6913.999,"text":"我想接下來 次長我們的政策其實我們就希望說要有緩衝期否則變苛政 一個好事變壞事所以剛剛我們提到這個回溯的部分這個待課終點費的差額在了解清楚的情況之下是不是全額應該由教育部不管你要跟地方政府還是什麼就是以公費之意 次長可不可以當場承諾什麼"},{"start":6915.8,"end":6937.561,"text":"就是我們講的回溯的部分正值教師口袋裡掏出來支付他們的錢有記錄的這個差額就應該全額由教育部或者你不管你用什麼方式以公費之意我剛才也提過他只要有差請系統裡面有記錄的當然就是有公費之處但是因為各校的系統有差異的我想教育部還是要有責任來處理好不好"},{"start":6938.061,"end":6965.816,"text":"工費能夠來處理因為那個要有依據來你有依據這個依據的辦法你們應該要去協調對 我們會跟地方協調好不好 好我想接下來還要再講本次教師待遇的調整的裁員將由教育部協助地方政府本次調整所需的50%同樣是中央的支票由地方來買單這50%要怎麼計算有回溯到這個去年9月1號嗎教育部宣布調整之前有沒有跟地方政府討論"},{"start":6966.917,"end":6992.743,"text":"那如果地方政府回覆真的沒有裁員的資訊教育部要怎麼處理呢對 我想11月25號我們有跟地方政府的代表都協商過那大家是認為這樣的一個政策對於基層老師的士氣是有鼓勵好 是有協商過啦 那就好那我想我要回去講剛剛那個回溯的部分因為您有提到說有一些系統系統如果不夠完整表示它有可能學校本身資源就不足啊"},{"start":6993.143,"end":7020.598,"text":"如果學校資源不足了你還讓政事老師我想學校都有人事單位所以就不會有這個狀況請私駕 請病駕 請什麼他合法在拆請系統裡面有的我們再次強調說這個部分我們一定會攤起來那另外也有老師關心還有一個地方也是不太清楚第八節課和寒暑府的終點費有沒有一併調整是不是也請次長說明我們現在國教署有在思考這個問題我們請署長回答"},{"start":7022.399,"end":7044.189,"text":"這次調的是在加級表上正式老師或是學校專任老師 代理老師在運用的代理 代課的費用的終點費那像這一些如果它是比照那個數額的我們會一起考慮如果它是另訂的譬如說它自己自訂一節五百塊那一類它是原有計算標準的它不在這一次討論之列"},{"start":7045.189,"end":7072.731,"text":"你繞了這麼久你就是在跟我講說你們的回覆嘛就是不算嘛沒有一併調漲嘛那討論當中一個學校怎麼可以有兩個世界呢一個終點費怎麼有兩種計算方式呢那既然有調了是不是就一次來調整那我想你們有說要再討論研議嘛是不是可以一併調整老師們第八節課和韓屬府的終點費那既然有在討論大家加緊時間嘛一個月內可不可以書面答覆本席這個我們"},{"start":7075.219,"end":7101.533,"text":"快過年了嘛你這個既然紅包要發就發到底啊我們可以來評估啦好不好不要一個學校兩個世界因為我們那個委員你知道我們就跟地方政府各50%啦所以我們也要再找地方政府來反映我相信大家都會支持老師的薪資這麼久沒有調整了我相信不會有人去阻擾的我們現在講的終點費是法規上證客的終點費跟代理代課的終點費我爭取一點時間啦比較明確我們提到了這個AI啊"},{"start":7102.293,"end":7127.068,"text":"你們現在做的這個AI的指引我不知道市長有沒有去看中小學學生最常使用的AI工具您知道是什麼嗎AI工具那個CHEP GPT嗎有很多CHEP GPT Canva Copilot都有 Gemini結果你們的這個深層式AI的指引只寫了兩個平台叫英才網和酷英網"},{"start":7128.642,"end":7154.976,"text":"這個我們接到很多的意見說負評如潮說這個與真實情況脫節所以市長這個事實上我們看到有這種多樣性的問題甚至還有什麼情況還有說這個如果給學生的是說如果對AI內容有疑慮應向老師或家長請教給家長跟老師的版本市長你仔細看我們字放大給你看"},{"start":7156.076,"end":7181.47,"text":"給家長跟老師的版本說有學生來問的話或你用的話有意義結合自己的經驗和判斷思維來檢視結果這樣不是推來推去嗎事實上你應該要讓大家知道說AI有問題要去查資料哪裡是要做得更好我們在此希望能夠具體要求就是說這個能不能重新檢視一下我們甚至還有看到什麼情況更離譜"},{"start":7183.127,"end":7206.898,"text":"裡面還提到說 這些平台會要求輸入E-mail 電話 住址等個人資料對年紀小的學生風險很高現在很多主流的平台 註冊哪一個需要輸入地址的註冊哪一個需要電話的 不用啊結果我們一去看才發現什麼英才網要輸入身份證 字號 要輸入這些資料"},{"start":7207.978,"end":7222.326,"text":"然後你裡面只提到英才網提到這個什麼酷英網你是在講你們自己平台風險很高嗎這一份文件市長我要講完全不合格啊所以能不能本席在此據理要求教育部重新檢視"},{"start":7223.607,"end":7239.623,"text":"相關的這個事項在寒假結束後正式開學前能不能有一個修訂版的AI指引發布給全國中小學市長可不可以當場承諾會更新更正這個版本真的不及格啦我們會把委員的意見納入我們盡量在寒假以前能夠"},{"start":7241.084,"end":7263.652,"text":"用意良好但是要符合現況好不好謝謝可以嗎有承諾嗎主席站起來我最後一個議題其實我們在講這個偏鄉其實是可以結合AI跟科技的數位工具現在有許多部會去針對去投入這些科技的工具可是我們發現教育部好像"},{"start":7264.943,"end":7287.185,"text":"沒有看到 導致大家自力更生 去投入資源很多NGO 誠智 TFT 結合一些NGO 還有一些友好的組織去開發這些AI的工具來協助偏鄉教師來做SEL的社會情緒的學習的教練等等我們是想要問 就是說今天時間有限"},{"start":7288.106,"end":7305.659,"text":"我想可不可以請教育部在會後整理一份AI工具開發的清單包括投入的預算AI工具的用途以及開發的期程讓我們全民包括天香的教師還有這些環境家長學生一起了解教育部作為"},{"start":7307.02,"end":7325.307,"text":"AI內閣的一環教育又是最重要可能會立刻被AI影響的你們現在在AI上有做哪些努力可不可以一個月內整理給我們已經在做我們現在很多專業的一些研習工作老師工作坊裡面也有很多我說教育部做的工具"},{"start":7327.007,"end":7354.573,"text":"要再質疑你提什麼音才網什麼哭音網都很棒但是工具的部分現在AI有很多Tool可以幫助老師自我訓練或練習情境的練習好不好市長透過AI工具的協助我們也都在推動這方面的研習不是市長你還是沒聽清楚不好意思主席因為市長一直在假裝聽不懂我現在講的是工具不是研習AI的工具"},{"start":7355.433,"end":7381.474,"text":"AI工具的開發清單投入的預算AI工具的用途可不可以一個月內整理給我市長您不清楚沒關係我們會後請製科師這邊大家整理一下這是好事我們來協助減輕第一線教師負擔尤其偏鄉教師他們一人要身兼數職用科技用AI去協力他們這是非常好的事讓他們的全副精力投入教學幫助學生幫助家長"},{"start":7382.414,"end":7408.47,"text":"現在開發的我們在注意啦我們也會整理出來好不好整理出來我們一起來努力謝謝應該就其實就結束了嘛謝謝主席謝謝國務軍委員謝謝市長請回座我們等一下再郭育琴委員質詢結束後休息休息休息"},{"start":7410.151,"end":7427.007,"text":"休息十分鐘吧休息十分鐘好OK那現在請郭育晴委員質詢好謝謝主席有請次長"},{"start":7431.995,"end":7459.178,"text":"委員好市長早安我想要先肯定一下去年我們教育部針對教師擴大偏鄉地區傷害保險的適用對象這個部分要給予肯定但是我想偏鄉的教育其實還有很多精進的空間今天我就三大的一個主題來請教一下包含師資的部分人才的流用的問題再來還有行政負擔過重"},{"start":7459.978,"end":7483.706,"text":"另外還有就是區域教育的資源中心那我想這三個部分其實也值得我們好好的來關心一下那我想現在這個偏鄉教育偏鄉學校長期就存在著這個有邊但是沒人有邊無人這樣子的一個窘境那我想實際在撐起這個教育現場的大部分都是代理教師還有這個代課教師"},{"start":7484.426,"end":7504.354,"text":"那我想這是過去的一個制度的設計不管是這個加級啦或者是進修啦甚至所謂的留任的一個誘因喔大多數都還是以所謂的正式教師為主要的思考的一個重點喔那導致這個偏鄉的學校可能會有所謂的在師師上的一個輪替或者是換人"},{"start":7505.114,"end":7534.715,"text":"那等於是在教學現場的一個對於學生來講是這個他們的一些不穩定的一個狀態那學生也必須要重新的來適應那我想剛剛我有提到其實關鍵並不是我們沒有人才也不是所謂的找不到人但重點是我們留不住人這個部分請教一下這個次長有沒有什麼樣可以穩定師資更確切實際的一些作為或者是我們正在改進的一個研議的一些方法"},{"start":7534.895,"end":7559.432,"text":"谢谢委员关心事实上那个配降条例我们从2017年底开始上路之后到现在这样8年左右事实上也投入了大量的资源那刚才陈儒刚才我也跟委员在关心说我们这个教室的流动率刚才提到那个代理教室的比例其实都有降从数据来看刚才特别提到说像那个流动率从107年那时候的国小"},{"start":7560.112,"end":7575.744,"text":"那时候高达2.14那个流动率那到了113年已经降到1.21那么跟全国的平均1.02呢有差距但是也缩短了降幅相当高那国中的部分事实上也从107年的1.92%降到了113年的1.36%"},{"start":7581.889,"end":7601.288,"text":"我想现在精致教育这件事情对对我们是从数据上看到它的流动率确实降低而且降低的幅度不少这几年一直稳定大概在这上面我们会继续投入资源那代理教师的比例也是一样以前大概三成就是正式一般的大概是13到18%平均那现在大概也到25%"},{"start":7602.629,"end":7630.123,"text":"左右所以有这样我想我们有进步但是其实还可以再更精进可以再更精进那这次其实我也提出了这个修法这个学校从这个所谓的自聘合格的一个代理教师应该要纳入他们专聘教师相同的一个在聘的机制跟发展的一个机制那这是我的修法的一个重点那如果有再更进一步的一些盘整或者是说我们对于所谓的这个偏乡教育的一些资源有更详细的一些数字再麻烦提供给我办公室"},{"start":7630.583,"end":7652.225,"text":"那剛剛其實陳儒這個次長有說像修法委員他也非常關心這一個部分那同步也給我辦公室那第二個其實我們真的要來就是也很沉重啦因為必須講現在除了教學以外那麼在偏鄉的學校其實常常我們看到老師或者是校長甚至主任他都要身兼所謂的行政"},{"start":7652.805,"end":7675.638,"text":"還有一些所謂的這個非常細碎的一些雜物那在今年的這個元旦其實這個關鍵評論就有一位這個師培生他特別投書那看了其實很感慨他說他去偏鄉的教學現場看到了一位上了年紀的主任在放學之後還要獨自的打掃學校的廁所這不是一時的心情這變成是一種日常"},{"start":7676.158,"end":7702.27,"text":"那在偏鄉的一個地區教師實際付出他們在工作的一些時間往往一天都超過至少18個小時以上那我想這個部分偏鄉教育在學校的現場行政是不是真的是很大的一個壓力跟負擔那這個部分我們怎麼解要怎麼樣來幫助他們對 謝謝委員關心其實這個委員看到那個問題確實就是說有些偏鄉他的這個學生數少 班級數少"},{"start":7703.47,"end":7725.441,"text":"人力少所以它很多行政的資源上也不足所以我們有設立這個區域教育資源中心就是變價條例上面之後它會負責大概很多縣市大概是以國中學期設立一個好幾個國小它可能會有一些共用的一個行政統合的這個也就是我在草案當中其實我有特別想我們要避免一人多職"},{"start":7727.382,"end":7749.589,"text":"區域資源中心其實我們每年補助的額度大概在400到600萬所以說也有相當的人力的因素因為學校的這個行政的資源如果我們學校行政的資源沒有辦法前進其實再多的資資的政策其實都會被這些行政給耗損掉所以這也就是我在草案當中我有特別提到就是行政的業務是不是應該有區域教育資源中心"},{"start":7751.509,"end":7779.355,"text":"來集中來做支援但是這個問題來囉為什麼要說這個問題來囉這是我有第三個問題因為沒有足夠的人力其實也就沒有明確的一個統籌的權限那也就是說他到底是研究跟支援的單位還是說他應該要把所謂的負責師資他們要共享巡邏巡迴或者是輔導課後的一個統籌的一個協調這個部分我們在分工還有人力上的配置這個部分怎麼解"},{"start":7780.165,"end":7798.053,"text":"我想这个部分每一个区域教育支援中心面临的可能都不太一样那我们会尽量就是说我们在很多分区会议里面他们也会反映说人力不足或者说那样子的一个学校里面中心学校里面面临的什么重要问题我想每一个在地方先是政府也可以"},{"start":7798.693,"end":7819.348,"text":"专任的人力其实真的要到位我们不要再让老师来做接班那我想这个偏乡教育不是一年撑过一年就算了其实我们要撑起的是一直在给资源其实现在中央财务法我们中央的统筹款少了我们在偏乡每年40亿这部分我们还是保留我们没有减掉"},{"start":7819.608,"end":7841.301,"text":"那針對我剛剛所提的不管是師資也好或者是我們的行政的負擔也好或者是我們剛剛講的教育資源中心我們要讓他更加有利喔這個部分如果有一些精心的一些報告數據再提供給我好那最後一點點的時間喔我再次的強調喔那去年其實我就一直不斷的在我們的就是"},{"start":7842.101,"end":7865.394,"text":"教育部備詢的時候我有特別提到我們的校事會議的制度的改善當時其實我們也聽到部長本人他也在立法院有承諾他說在2025年年底之前要完成相關的修法關於校事會議但我們現在看到的現實是要延到12月 不是"},{"start":7865.834,"end":7888.302,"text":"去年說要12月底現在是1月12號那我想要問的是這個對於第一線的老師來說校士會議他們依舊是心裡的痛依舊是心裡的痛那這個延期到底是跳票還是這個延期中間是有什麼環節被卡關了這個部分我是不是先請次長來先說明一下為什麼要延到1月12號"},{"start":7889.002,"end":7904.415,"text":"所以很抱歉就是因為同時在國中小高國中小國教的現場其實有很多問題我們同時在解決包括剛才我們12月31號宣布的導師費行政減量等等這些措施所以我們在這個校士會的修法在"},{"start":7904.875,"end":7929.906,"text":"草案公佈之後那也有相當的團體大概可以看到12月22號那個學選團體也來陳情所以我們大概也認為說有些可以在程序上更完備一點所以我們在走這個程序也沒有拖很久我們當然沒有在12月底前來那個時候沒有說明對 那就是1月12因為在這個過程裡面我們其實是有在做一些討論所以1月12號是會如期"},{"start":7931.087,"end":7958.002,"text":"我们1月12号就静待教育部提出来的一些改进的方法包括那个婆叔的分流大案才进入校师会议小案我们以行政考为主好 那我们期待1月12号我们听到校师会议的给第一线的老师他们有一个更完整让他们更心安能够在教学的现场不要再承受太大的一个压力了好吗在公布之前我们也有用"},{"start":7958.402,"end":7979.933,"text":"也有告诉学校说有些过去反映的不合理的一个那个的做法我们要请学校谨慎使用好那我们就期待这个1月12号我们会听到这个对校事会议的最后的一个交代好吗好谢谢谢谢次长谢谢书长谢谢主席好谢谢国议警委员官员请回座我们现在休息10分钟"},{"start":7987.222,"end":7990.748,"text":"下一位發言質詢的委員是范雲委員好 謝謝"},{"start":8559.626,"end":8560.52,"text":"我還沒被發生法律"},{"start":8604.178,"end":8609.243,"text":"好 我們現在會議繼續進行現在請范雲委員進行質詢好 謝謝周委 有請次長有請次長"},{"start":8621.246,"end":8646.725,"text":"好 次长早安那今天我首先是要肯定教育部了你们给全国的教师一个跨年贺礼提高了教师的待遇那你可以看到教团几乎都是给予肯定那我们看到导师的加给从每个月三千到四千全面调涨中点费20%还有加发行政工作奖金那这个照片是我之前总质询的"},{"start":8647.085,"end":8667.072,"text":"也是幫你們爭取我們知道問題是在行政院整體的規劃人跟錢都非常的重要那也特別講一下工會也肯定代理教室工會認為這是百分之二十趴是歷年最大的漲幅你看這邊有國小 國中 高中這次真的是漲幅最高"},{"start":8667.852,"end":8683.521,"text":"那他們期待教育部未來進一步嚴寧制度化的規範譬如說終點費跟物價指數是不是能夠像我們勞動部的工資一樣能夠有一個定期調整的公式讓教師終點費跟導師的津貼隨著社會勞工的薪資調漲那這部分"},{"start":8689.264,"end":8711.045,"text":"我也想今天请问市长有一些虽然是大家很肯定可是还是有一些地方大家关心是不是有配套比如说行政工作奖金区分50班以上大校及小校可是小校有可能更辛苦还有就是教师兼行政职务增加1000元有些老师会有相对剥夺感"},{"start":8711.805,"end":8731.477,"text":"还有教保员跟私校没有同步调整那怎么办那回溯到9月1号会不会增加行政负担不知道次长针对这几个问题能不能给大家一些初步的答案好 谢谢委员的关心也感谢委员的争取其实在整个调整上面当然我们认为说20%的这个重点"},{"start":8733.138,"end":8761.528,"text":"是历届最大也是因为过去我们比较少做这方面的调整当然未来我们也会委员接的非常好就是说我们可能有些相关的一个调整的机制我们会建立比较制度性的譬如按照CPI或者按照调薪等等这有一些因素我们来制定一个比较制度性的一个配套措施那第二个就是教保员跟回缩的部分会不会增加行政负担事实上这一部分我们也在跟地方政府来做研商就是说"},{"start":8763.254,"end":8788.295,"text":"我们拨款方面也非常重减也没有很多行政负担他准备什么还要核销这部分我们都重减时间也没有限制就是说我们钱已经拨下去了那你们怎么样子的只要是符合法律责任他们自己可以讲好我们多尊重地方的选择那行政工作奖金方面其实这一次我们调的认为说"},{"start":8789.266,"end":8806.496,"text":"有這個當然有一些我們跟地方在討論的時候地方就有反應像嘉義縣說他五十班好像只有一間那怎麼處理呢那我們後來呢也透過行政執導去跟地方講說我們就用五趴就把大校他們也一樣雖然沒有五十班以上但是也是有大校找不到校長"},{"start":8807.316,"end":8823.567,"text":"是对那我们同时也做检讨了这个行政那个事务来做行政减量70%那校际合作等等这样子的一个方式小校的部分呢我们其实偏向条例里面也有对小校的行政给资源比如说区域资源中心我们给400到600万"},{"start":8824.528,"end":8844.953,"text":"那另外沒有在偏鄉的也沒有在這個比較大的學校那這些小校的行政負擔如何處理這個我們會跟地方政府再來研商有沒有比較好的一個行政配套措施來支援也跟張廖次長反映一下因為非常多的校長那是肯定教育部這一次的這個爭取就是他們的等於是"},{"start":8845.413,"end":8862.696,"text":"津贴福利但是对于50班以上他们觉得就是希望能够有未来进一步的提升因为毕竟全国校长要管理的学校超过50班的其实没有那么的多我想这部分越涉及到人总行政院整体的规划"},{"start":8863.217,"end":8885.617,"text":"那如果需要我幫忙一起跟行政院爭取的那請次長研議之後可以讓我知道好不好謝謝委員的關心其實在公布之後我們當然也聽到各界的聲音那當然有些是有一些誤解或者說有一些不理解的部分我們會加緊溝通譬如說校長協會或者是甚至有些私校也有提出我們都會去跟他們溝通了解他們的反應好"},{"start":8887.658,"end":8911.905,"text":"對在我們能夠跟地方政府能夠共同支持的情況下我們會來幫忙協助解決好那謝謝喔那因為今天的主題是偏鄉教育嘛那我之前呢就是去年五月的時候質詢的時候有要求幾件事喔那當時也肯定教育部後來擴大開設偏鄉教育的學分班喔那我之前的質詢喔有要求就是這個"},{"start":8913.866,"end":8933.215,"text":"學士後的學分班應該要加開中學的類科然後符合資格自費者應該要能夠單獨報名不需要一定要有公費者才能開班然後也希望教育部可以評估現行自費者搭配久留偏遠服務配套是不是可以提供公費的可能性"},{"start":8933.875,"end":8960.476,"text":"那我知道这些部分其实教育部还需要持续研议那因为今天我们讨论到偏乡这个议题那那个次长这边有没有初步的答案跟方向呢我想那个委员关心的方向跟我们都一致那在加开中学类科的部分我们会来研议然后符合资格自费者也能够单独报名这一部分我们已经有了那第三个部分我们会评估就是说这个"},{"start":8961.337,"end":8975.954,"text":"要怎么样子跟那个九流那个偏远的那个服务配套那是否可行跟还提供公费这个我们就比较比较审慎一点了解因为有一些制度上互相汉格的问题好所以我们会来评估看看好"},{"start":8976.914,"end":9003.695,"text":"後面兩者如果有進一步的進度也讓我辦公室知道好嗎好 謝謝最後還有兩分鐘的時間總預算持續被封殺因為很多人好像感受不到因為法定的支出譬如人事費不會受影響我知道你們教育部有對外講一些譬如說我就知道竹竹苗的公立高中這個部分的一些校舍等等"},{"start":9004.235,"end":9019.034,"text":"就是會被影響那除了竹竹苗這個部分因為我也負責大興竹縣那市長可不可以告訴我們你認為最重要的影響跟傷害是哪個可以讓大家知道一下對 就主要是有五項計畫"},{"start":9020.736,"end":9043.462,"text":"大概有31億是受到比較重大的影響那其實這些所謂的新興計畫也是地方政府或者是國立學校或者是地方基層的建議就是說他們有急迫性的需要譬如說大學院校的一個涉及到結構安全的改建這邊可不可以暫停一下請問是哪些大學院校的建物改建會受影響因為這個也是新興計畫嘛"},{"start":9045.563,"end":9071.526,"text":"好 我們請那個業務單位來對 因為我想讓大家知道我們劉書斌委員也很認真聽我們藍白的委員會更有感哪些大專院校的是校舍還是什麼建物會受到影響是 跟委員報告因為我們在115年編列15億的這個計畫15億的經費主要是用在國立大學的老舊校舍國立大學老舊校舍那有沒有已經申請的可以告訴我們是哪些國立大學嗎"},{"start":9072.287,"end":9101.252,"text":"跟我們報告目前因為在這個計劃還在是使用115年的預算還在規劃當中所以這個計劃如果預算沒有獲得支持的話我們還沒有辦法跟各國立學校補達就是所有的國立大學因為你計劃還沒過所以就沒辦法公告就沒辦法申請了超過40年然後有很多國立大學有反應所以我們訂了這個計劃提供給他們申請那目前就是這個計劃如果新型計劃沒有通過的話這些學校他想要申請大概就沒有就沒有辦法"},{"start":9102.892,"end":9128.284,"text":"請問一下竹竹苗譬如新竹縣是哪些學校會受影響公立高中可以一兩句話告訴我們嗎因為時間要到了因為這是我服務的地方新竹地區的國立的高中包含竹工竹中竹女都是非常重要關係高中等等好幾個學校都是校舍對不對校舍的"},{"start":9129.404,"end":9155.602,"text":"整修嗎正班吧正班教室有些會涉及到國立的正班有些我們爭取來幫地方政府包含興建大樓這些都會影響好 那是正班是每次家長跟我呈行的議題所以真的是呼籲所有的藍白委員我們這邊好幾位那真的不要再擋總預算這個對大新竹縣我服務的選區也非常的重要謝謝好 謝謝委員關心 謝謝"},{"start":9158.956,"end":9176.481,"text":"好 謝謝范瑀委員那萬美玲請回座我們現在請等一下 你要喝水嗎好我們現在請萬美玲委員質詢"},{"start":9186.854,"end":9195.08,"text":"好 谢谢赵伟我们有请次长我看署长一起好了吧署长万元你好"},{"start":9196.052,"end":9224.507,"text":"好 次长好 署长好首先先肯定这个教育部在去年12月31号终于宣布了高中以下的学校导师费3000块调到4000块终点费也全面的调增20%以及第三项的教师行政工作奖金也分三级最高每个月加发2000还追溯我想这是值得肯定的但是提高了这个"},{"start":9226.007,"end":9240.717,"text":"導師費跟這個兼任的這個教室的這個終點費事實上其實老師們最期待的我想次長說得很清楚就是希望心知神意法制化我們希望把它法制化因為我們去看其實"},{"start":9242.662,"end":9264.112,"text":"教育部不知道有沒有去了解次長就是說今年為什麼行政院還沒有把軍公教人員的待遇調整這個條例送到立法院去因為我覺得法治化這件事情是相當的重要而不是今天你們認為想調就調然後你們覺得不該調就不該調是隨著心情呢還是隨著當時的感覺那我覺得法治化以後其實對大家都好能不能說明一下"},{"start":9266.155,"end":9276.918,"text":"這份人事單位我想委員的想法我認同當然在這個沒有制度化之前其實從100年到現在其實你說也有調100年 107年 111 113 114年也分別調了3% 3% 4% 4% 3%大概17%"},{"start":9285.72,"end":9310.001,"text":"那包括這一次其實剛才有委員提議嘛譬如說導師費的調整啦 終點費的調整啦這個部分是不是也應該有一個調整機制啦那在部內可以研究研議的範圍內我們會來朝這方面來努力其實市長正如您剛剛所說的啦就是說什麼哪一年有調啊 哪一年沒調啊其實你背得還蠻清楚的喔那什麼時候調了一個3% 什麼時候調了4%我覺得沒有一個規則啦"},{"start":9312.543,"end":9334.319,"text":"我覺得把它法制化下來其實對大家是最有保障的所以我想我們有沒有傾向要儘速的把這個薪資審議法制化我們把它落實下來對 因為這個涉及到其他部會包括人事總署或者是行政院這邊的公教方面的那你有提出來過嗎 教育部我們這邊當然也會反映提出來過嗎委員有反映的話立法院有決議我們都會反映"},{"start":9335.06,"end":9353.983,"text":"所以你有提出来过吗教育部我的部分没有不是你个人啦你今天来是代表教育部嘛教育部有没有提出来过部的部分当然希望朝这方面走但是这个牵涉到的就是一个康复会那我希望啦当然牵涉到很多的这个部会但是我希望教育部能够向行政院去了解并且把它提出来好不好"},{"start":9354.691,"end":9376.317,"text":"我只是提說雖然沒有建立這個制度性但是這幾年的調心其實已經適度調心我跟你講調心是應該做的但是不是隨著你想調就調我覺得新之法之化這件事情還是要做所以我希望教育部如果有為我們這些老師著想我們還是盡速把它提出來好不好我們會持續來收集各界的意見好不好包括委員的意見好"},{"start":9377.137,"end":9403.82,"text":"另外這一次的調整我們並沒有納入教保員的教保費沒有錯嘛 對不對我想署長在這邊其實署長您之前是不是有跟全國幼教產業工會也在私下開過很多次會關心過他們很多次也聊過是希望我們在導師費其實還沒有調整之前其實署長您就有跟他們承諾說我們要把教保員的教保費調成跟我們的導師費是一致的 對不對"},{"start":9404.821,"end":9412.33,"text":"那這一次啊 你看你之前有承諾過人家其實 拜託 不要干擾好不好後面這哪一位啊"},{"start":9415.231,"end":9439.415,"text":"学前卒的刚好是对我们不要干扰好不好如果我们本席没有请你的话请不要干扰好不好因为你们的署长其实很厉害不需要你跟他打小报告好那您之前就已经有去承诺他们说我们要把教保员的这个教保费提高跟导师费一样他们满心期待但这一次呢我们去调这个导师费的时候你却没有把我们的教保员的教保费啊"},{"start":9439.835,"end":9445.307,"text":"那按照你的承諾去把它調高那我想請教一下先問一下署長好了 為什麼"},{"start":9446.94,"end":9475.575,"text":"跟委員報告據教師資格的教育夥伴是都一樣教保員的部分會調這個我們已經跟理事長也有說明過現在在修要點也會追溯這個他能完全都掌握先跟委員報告什麼時候呢在一月份我們會把要點修完謝謝一月份會把要點修完怎麼調就是剛剛講的調一千就增加一千據教師資格的老師者那就跟老師一樣教保員的部分調一千"},{"start":9476.135,"end":9493.663,"text":"教保员的部分调一天一千但是因为你之前有承诺过他们说要比照导师费嘛对不对所以他们期待的是比照导师费当然过去我们就是说导师费是三千的时候我们就是三千但现在因为导师费调成四千了我们有没有空间一样我们来调成四千"},{"start":9494.583,"end":9511.878,"text":"刚委员报告的是据教师身份那个因为是起义然后就叫教师那至于教保员他有原来的那个教保的服务费用那那个费用我们要如何去看待他可能还是有一个基准那那个基准之下至少调一千我们就加一千"},{"start":9512.338,"end":9540.908,"text":"好那很好所以一月份的时候我们会把教保员的教保费用再调高一千块然后也追溯对吗对好我们一定要把它落实另外我们看到国教署也把教师行政工作奖金分成了三级那第一级第二级都是五十班以上但是校长每月加发两千行政职人员每月加发一千五那未达五十班的校长跟行政职的人员加发一千我想第一个请教一下彭署长好了好"},{"start":9541.368,"end":9560.568,"text":"就是为什么我们要用五十班作为界定的标准第一个现行就有用七十班七十班按照当时民国八十年代的比例回推回来是现在的大概五十班左右这第一点所以五十班这个律定到目前为止怕还是有一漏所以我们相对小"},{"start":9561.289,"end":9586.107,"text":"相对小的县市它里头如果没有苏长我了解你的意思就是说是过去的法令对不对但是我觉得你这样子调其实不符合我们现在教育的现状因为我们去看苏长我们过去这个年代定的那个法令当然我们要一直不断去做调整那我是不知道你怎么换算的你的换算公司我没办法理解但是我们如果按照现在的这个学校卫生法我们来看"},{"start":9586.767,"end":9615.255,"text":"校户跟营养师我们是以40班为基准那我们的40班怎么定的不是我们不爱挤哪个数字是哪个数字而是我们去看说这个校户他可能就是最佳的一个工作量或者是他这个最大的一个工作承受压力跟这个营养师我们都是40班为一个单位那如果我们是以40班为一个单位那为什么我们在行政工作奖金是要用50班所以这一点我希望我们能够修得更好一点我们就比照学校卫生法"},{"start":9615.915,"end":9639.847,"text":"至少還有一個相關的法的一個規範就是40班希望這點能不能去研議一下我們會來研議好那再來我再請教一下我們一樣50班以上的學校但是校長跟行政職人員的獎金卻是不一樣的一個是2000一個是1500可是那奇怪了那未達50班以上校長跟行政職人員又都是一樣加發1000這又是個什麼標準"},{"start":9643.441,"end":9666.936,"text":"當時是其實就有考慮就是說我們都知道現場有所謂的行政大逃亡就我們擔心說導師會調高之後那個行政家不是我了解我現在的問題不是這個啊不要讓他差距擴大不是嘛我現在是說不要讓他差距過大那你看看你把50班以上校長跟行政職人員他是有不一樣對不對有差500塊那為什麼50班以上校長跟行政職人員就一樣勒你這種標準很奇怪啊為什麼呢"},{"start":9670.107,"end":9694.065,"text":"現在五十班以上的校長兩千五十班以上的行政人員一千五五十班以下的校長行政人員一千那這些考慮那個署長你這樣子答覆是浪費我的時間啊你真的在浪費我的時間我就在問你嘛為什麼五十班以上你有差距五十班以下那校長跟行政職人員就都一樣呢因為剛剛委員講的有一些那個觀念上我把委員再確認一下我想這個題目很小"},{"start":9694.625,"end":9714.219,"text":"但是我觉得这是一种对行政职人员的尊重我是希望是不是我们50班以上的行政职人员你回去研议一下虽然是区区的500块但是这是一个相对的尊重能够跟50班以上的学校一样校长跟行政职的人员我们都可以一样是2000 50班以上我们也朝这个方向去研议一个礼拜内给我一个答复好不好"},{"start":9718.279,"end":9738.237,"text":"接下來呢我想一樣再請教就是校事會議那個次長我好像有看到您在媒體上說我們這個校事會議其實之前就說要提出修正了說去年底看起來是跳票一次那這個跳票其實讓我們基層的教師心惶惶大家都在關注這件事那現在您又公開說1月12這個會不會再跳票"},{"start":9739.017,"end":9763.608,"text":"就下禮拜一這幾天而已不會跳票絕對不會跳票嘛是不是那我想我是不知道你出來的內容會是讓大家很開心還是會讓大家再一次失望那我只是要提醒您對於教師團體所提出來的就是說是不是我們在相關這個爛訴如果其實不成立的時候關於我們的補償機制你有沒有放在裡面我們也在研擬那個配套中"},{"start":9764.068,"end":9790.103,"text":"所以禮拜一我們提出來的校士會的相關修正也會有關於這個爛數的相關補償機制在裡面嗎那個部分那個部分還在那個部分就是條文有公布啦但那部分我們在還在研議中啦我希望喔還有幾天的時間啦這個部分非常的重要部長非常在乎這個啦非常在乎所以既然非常在乎跳票過一次這一次我們希望一起把它納入那我希望次長回去能夠再講一下"},{"start":9790.663,"end":9812.424,"text":"好那最後一個部分再跟趙偉幾分鐘的時間就好我們特教法修正以後我們增加了專職鑑定的評估人員那由國教組去補助各縣市增至專職鑑定評估人員的員額但是為什麼到現在修法一年過後全台仍然有十個縣市沒有依照補助員額來增加這個組合的人力"},{"start":9812.944,"end":9835.083,"text":"甚至於還有九成的這個受教的這個特教老師反映他沒有感覺到平靜工作因此來降低了壓力這什麼原因那而且我們看一下這個資料全國一共核定了100個名額地方政府占了92個但是呢整個全部只有聘了57個還有35個沒有聘足那次長你有沒有去了解為什麼還有這麼多的縣市沒有辦法足夠禁用"},{"start":9835.603,"end":9844.055,"text":"我們也在跟地方協助就是可能在那個他們在聘任上可能有遇到一些困難什麼樣的困難謝謝 請署長回答好不好 來"},{"start":9847.881,"end":9865.995,"text":"第一点他有离职的现象第二点在聘任上可能在设计上就是整个时间还有他工作负担要搭配在一起这一点上我们逐渐是在做检讨那希望钱给他们能够善用出来刚才委员所问的很专业是不是容我们也有给报告完整的报告"},{"start":9866.055,"end":9887.138,"text":"署长我想再提供一个给你做一个参考因为其实很多人在讲说因为特教老师有特教家级但是专职的鉴定人员是没有的那在工作量其实可能是差不多的情况之下他当然会优先选择担任特教老师所以在这个部分我想你应该回去针对问题来研究是不是让专职的鉴定评估人员也可以有特教家级这样会比较好一点"},{"start":9887.879,"end":9909.093,"text":"因為你看我再提供一個數字給你我們目前有四成的特教老師他知道縣市可以設置專職的評鑑人員但這其中只有一成的人有申請過專職的鑑評的支援這代表還有大部分的特教老師依然處於蠟燭兩頭燒的狀況所以這個問題我希望能夠一併做一個改善這些問題剛才上述的問題一個禮拜內給我好不好最後一分鐘次長"},{"start":9919.119,"end":9944.745,"text":"我們按照預算法第54條第一項第二款第一目規定請您注意聽一下新興資本支出及新增計劃在本年度預算完成審議程序後時的動之但依照88條規定辦理或經立法院統一者不在此限這個白話文我翻譯給你聽一下也就是說預算如果沒有辦法如期審查完政府相關新興資本支出及"},{"start":9945.245,"end":9959.345,"text":"新增計畫提出來以後經過立法院同意就能夠先之用您了解這個部分嗎這部分你了解嗎我剛剛所念有沒有錯誤這個部分就依照規定依照規定嘛我剛剛所念的部分就你了解有沒有錯誤"},{"start":9961.582,"end":9989.664,"text":"條文是這麼寫的條文就是這樣嘛那你今天怎麼可以回答說你有五項的新興計畫現在沒有辦法處理那我跟你講我們立法院一定非常支持教育上面所有的新興預算你把它提出來啊好不好如果你今天所答詢我們這些委員說我們目前有五項新興計畫也很急著在教育現場來執行你儘管按照程序我相信你也很了解把它提出來提出來以後我想立法院不管朝野我們一定都會支持這你做得到嗎"},{"start":9992.925,"end":10017.4,"text":"次長請你回答我想只要是法令上程序上可以爭取的我們想不分黨派我們會去爭取當然嘛那所以剛剛我有跟你提了嘛所以這個法令沒有錯嘛那如果沒有錯你現在五項新興計畫你就不用再去想什麼財化法的問題預算審查的問題那你就把它提出來啊你出來以後我相信藍白綠全部都會支持那你願不願意把你今天所說的那五項新興計畫把它提出來"},{"start":10017.66,"end":10037.538,"text":"因为88条的规定是指这个总预算还是它好像指基金市长我想你应该要去把它了解如果有这样的办法你却不提出来在那边挨我觉得这样是不对的好不好我们全部支持你的新兴计划有急迫性的赶快把它提出来我们不分朝野我们全部予以支持可以吗"},{"start":10037.878,"end":10061.744,"text":"我想歸根還是趕快審總預算會比較好趕快審預算當然要審所以我們也要依法來編列預算所以我今天只講教育的預算我們全力支持你的新興計劃你要趕快把它提出來如果你不把它提出來那我們暫時也沒有辦法去協助你是不是 好不好麻煩你依法來做事謝謝好 謝謝望梅林委員的質詢那官員請回座"},{"start":10065.988,"end":10069.632,"text":"現在請陳培宇委員質詢時間4分鐘好 謝謝主席有請張廖萬堅次長 謝謝我請次長"},{"start":10081.011,"end":10097.217,"text":"總預算的基本之道還是要在程序委員會可以過啦這比較重要啦好所以次長剛講的很好關鍵還是總預算好 次長我想跟你分享幾個我們辦公室雖然現在我不再叫我們委員會但是關於偏鄉老師的事情我們還是做了非常多政策跟討論的推進"},{"start":10098.557,"end":10122.766,"text":"第一個在去年年底我們辦公室邀請了部長還有國教署相關同仁還有師醫師然後到TFT跟KISS去做交流主要就是談論我們如何留任偏鄉老師或者是偏鄉老師的養成他們已經在就業當中的養成他們如何去取得相關的證件那我們非常開心聽到部長在聽到相關的報告之後就是所謂進任式的失陪養成"},{"start":10123.266,"end":10146.71,"text":"部長當場就說他在擔任部長以來他一直相信這是一個可能的辦法那他也已經責成私一私不知道這個部分可不可以請教育部再公開表態我們如何協助偏鄉的老師有一個新的開創師培的方法因為部長之前在一個會議中也說希望所有台灣的獅子培育機構可以開創一個多元的對於獅子培育的想像"},{"start":10147.478,"end":10171.35,"text":"是的我想我請那個市長來做進一步的說明好沒問題謝謝好謝謝委員的關心那在我們跟市培大學還有TFT等長期關注偏鄉的這個機構的合作那過去有這樣的機制那我們未來呢也會再強化這個部分那例如說這個國北交大還有我們TFT如何把像國外這種relay它有這種"},{"start":10172.57,"end":10193.415,"text":"在地扣取的精神让他们在实作的机制当中在失陪的过程里就能够把集战力还有对于偏乡的关注以及支持偏乡老师留任的这个支持度我们会积极的来主责让我们三方的合作能够有更多的模组到不同的失陪大学去"},{"start":10194.015,"end":10213.473,"text":"太好了但至少從北教大那邊他們已經有跟你們施醫師提出計劃申請也拜託你們多加幫忙因為確實有很多偏鄉老師他們希望持續留在偏鄉同時取得相關的證照讓大家相信他們不是只有熱情不是只有愛心他們還伴同的專業施培的部分就先到這邊施醫師 市長請回市長請留步"},{"start":10216.155,"end":10242.443,"text":"我繼續討論關於偏鄉老師久任獎金的事情我之前在教文的時候質詢過非常多次第一次是針對所謂的學校不開缺或者是因為其他的原因這一位偏鄉的老師他沒有辦法繼續留在原校服務的這種代理老師可不可以採記這是第一個第二個是全面採用全年聘期以前的代理教師年資可不可以採認這是第二個"},{"start":10243.283,"end":10272.441,"text":"第三個問題我問的是針對其他無法在原校留任的老師或者是跨縣市的年資可被採集的問題在兩次質詢之後我要再次謝謝教育部跟國教署相關的問題大部分都得到解答但是我要再次確認第一個事情去年教育部跟國教署有發函給各個縣市請他們調查符合請領偏鄉9任教師資格的人數我想確定一下去年調查的這一批人他們的9任獎金發放了沒"},{"start":10274.599,"end":10292.4,"text":"來署長獎金發了嗎9任獎金去年調查以來是6500人花了5億多都已經發了各縣市都發了好太好了謝謝那下一個呢相關獎金的作業如果如同剛剛署長說都已經發了可是我們看你們不是只有發錢你們還做相關法規範的盤點第一個"},{"start":10294.242,"end":10321.123,"text":"你们在去年3月提出一个偏远地区学校校长教师9任奖金的相关疑问问答集然后在8月提出了修订可是我还是在修订里面看到一个很大的bug想要跟两位讨论一下第一个关于第17个Q&A的问题关键是这样的代理老师他甄选没有考上原来的学校可是他却考上不同县市的偏乡学校"},{"start":10321.923,"end":10346.671,"text":"也就是說他本人繼續留在偏鄉學校服務可是卻不得請領9任獎金這件事情我認為在現在各地有師資荒代理教師荒的這個情況之下有沒有機會我們放寬認定只要他繼續留在偏鄉的學校他必須要被你們認定成是持續可以累積這個年資這個部分"},{"start":10347.391,"end":10373.51,"text":"其实委员讲的很有就是说这种个案其实很有道理其实我们会跟地方商量原来的规定当然是要在原校六年对 我知道原校是这样现在就是说学校没有开学他没有考上没有继续在那边留任可是他留任的学校也是偏乡对 他跑去一个新的学校是偏乡这个年资其实我刚才有提过说其实在基于鼓励的原则像这样子的一个个案我们尽量朝向比较可以弹性"},{"start":10374.951,"end":10387.362,"text":"能夠接受的一個立場 鼓勵的立場好 那但是因為這個部分確實需要跟地方政府認定對 我不會粗暴的說請你們一個禮拜內給我答覆這個例子有時候跨縣市對對對 那你們覺得多久內可以開完跟縣市政府的會議去討論這個問題"},{"start":10389.884,"end":10404.711,"text":"两个月好我看到你的手了谢谢署长好两个月来最后一题继续往下看我们爬出过偏远地区学校教育发展条例第21条那参考了你们的授权执法是公立学校教师奖金的发放办法的付表"},{"start":10405.311,"end":10432.806,"text":"我們看到在母法偏鄉條例裡頭他就說到並沒有涉及同一所學校也不可以規則於教師的規定在執法裡面是要求要同一個學校連續服務所以按照剛剛次長你的說法我也把法理都找出來了我要說的是因為母法跟執法的寫法可能會讓人覺得他必須要在同一所學校所以如果次長跟署長你們的認知也認為為了讓偏鄉的這些老師們"},{"start":10433.386,"end":10453.752,"text":"有機會留任繼續在偏鄉他可能同樣都在例如說剛剛萬美玲委員所在桃園的復興鄉但是還有非常多偏鄉學校這個部分我們就期待你們兩個月內跟我們相關討論跟回覆這個應該要有彈性的一個空間太好了好我們就持續爭取一起合作謝謝兩位謝謝主席好謝謝陳培宇委員發言我們現在光臨請回座現在請張雅玲委員質詢"},{"start":10468.291,"end":10469.814,"text":"我們請次長好 有請次長委員好"},{"start":10475.543,"end":10500.8,"text":"好 次長好我想去年年底的時候教育部公布了教育師待遇的調整和行政減量的一個政策送給教育人員一個很大的鼓舞那我還是要給予肯定但是我也想要跟次長再繼續討論有關於特教加緊能不能回溯的這件事情我這個之前已經跟次長來討論過但是我想這邊等一下 打不開"},{"start":10502.196,"end":10530.991,"text":"好就是說我們一直到去年我們去年其實就已經3到4月的時候就已經宣布要去調漲了但是我們實際生效的時間是在今年的2月1號那我還是要再跟幫老師們爭取就是說因為現在我想市長一定也非常清楚我們現場的老師們在處理這一些特別是特教生增加的部分其實工作量是增加了非常非常多"},{"start":10531.991,"end":10549.85,"text":"那我們是不是可以讓這件事情一樣都是回溯到去年的九月就是一一四年的新學年我知道這個在跟預算是很有關係但是我只是在想說這部分既然其他部分行政家級啊這些東西做得到那是不是特教家級也可以來努力呢"},{"start":10551.174,"end":10565.162,"text":"這部分因為署這邊有跟地方政府去溝通事實上在家籍的角色上面可能也有一些考慮地方政府其實也有看法上有一些出入我們是不是請署長好 簡單回應好不好 謝謝"},{"start":10566.603,"end":10594.002,"text":"当时特教加级我们大概最后阶段其实还有四个县市一直沟通所以他那个争取已经跟这一个情况是不同的性质争取上那这一次这一个在争取上大家是蛮有共识所以整体是愿意来一起来负担那特教加级在各县市我们也一直往前争取那最后大家有这种共识我们也觉得难能可贵事实上特教老师"},{"start":10594.542,"end":10609.572,"text":"他在代班時他仍然可以追溯領導師費這點倒是完全是一樣的所以他這個職務佳績是另外一個性質不同的佳績我們會努力去讓這個2月1號能夠實踐中間前面也經過了非常多的溝通"},{"start":10610.433,"end":10633.984,"text":"那因为性质不同他代班仍然有了这件事他不会没有导师费他也不会没有职务加急那这件事是不是容许我们会有持续再跟委员跟县市再去了解一下好不好好 我还是希望因为剩下四个县市嘛我们是不是可以还是来持续地努力地来沟通这件事情好不好对 是可以我一起来那就是那持续如果有相关进度的话也是让我们知道好不好好"},{"start":10635.427,"end":10650.058,"text":"那接下來是回到我們今天的這個偏鄉教育那我也是想要來爭取我們的教師待遇是不是可以調整呢就是說我們在去年的時候呢其實也有擴大偏鄉地區的教師傷害保險的適用對象那還是非常感謝但是說"},{"start":10651.279,"end":10674.593,"text":"除了这件事情之外,其他都是齐头式的加剂。我们也都非常清楚的知道,偏乡的教室流动率非常的高。我们从这张图表就可以看到,这是民间团体实现会设他们做的一个统计,就是如果到职两年内就会流失三分之一,四年内就会流失四成。所以我们是不是也可以来做这个九任奖金的调整呢?"},{"start":10674.673,"end":10693.91,"text":"因为在106年开始执行到现在已经是十个年头了所以我们十个年头我们的奖金其实并没有去因应消费者的物价指数来去做一个相对应的调整当时是说每三年会检讨一次可是已经十年了我们可以简单来看一下"},{"start":10695.39,"end":10710.464,"text":"我們的民生漲幅1106年到114年已經漲幅有非常大的落差從10%到20%外食費居住費都是以這樣子的一個幅度來去增加的那如果我們說我這邊也簡單的去算了一下我們的"},{"start":10711.545,"end":10721.229,"text":"排骨便當我們的排骨便當從106年到現在當年是90塊就可以買到一個不錯的排骨便當可是現在115年已經漲到了110塊到130塊這個漲幅已經達到了30到40%"},{"start":10727.833,"end":10741.698,"text":"所以呢等於是說當年他這個現在這個漲幅沒有太大的改變的時候這個很難去對應現在的一個物價水準那同時我們來看一下其他的年金的調整的一個狀態"},{"start":10743.439,"end":10763.238,"text":"我們也可以看到106年跟現在相比我們的老年基本保障年金 身障年金月頭保的金額等等的我們其實漲幅都是10%以上所以我也想要請教次長我們有沒有可能像八大津貼一樣都是隨著CPI指數來去做一個調整呢"},{"start":10763.618,"end":10788.414,"text":"不然会因为通膨都没有任何的感觉谢谢委员的建议据说我们偏向条例其实根据执法定定它其实是有弹性的譬如说我们现在是8年要发放当然也有委员认为说是不是6年就可以发放还有就是说现在8年发放我们从106年的物价指数到现在已经委员讲到至少都应该要提高所以有人说提高奖金"},{"start":10788.974,"end":10814.085,"text":"我想因為偏鄉條例在這一部分是比較有彈性跟開放的我們是願意來檢討不過這一部分可能也要跟地方政府做一些溝通那我們是不是可以開始來啟動這樣子的溝通呢可以可以嗎我想就是因為因為我們偏鄉條例本來每年都會辦分區會議的這個看有沒有什麼要再精進的要建議的要再修整的那現在委員在教文會裡面提出這樣的意見我們會納入參考"},{"start":10814.813,"end":10823.703,"text":"好那我希望是說針對這一點我們大概是什麼時候可以來追蹤相關的進度就是了解一下跟縣市談論的一個狀況我們三個月三個月"},{"start":10825.54,"end":10845.553,"text":"好 因為我想除了薪資上面因為其實剛剛我想市長也都非常了解有些老師真的是很有心那偏鄉的老師除了是孩子的教學上面他其實也是學生很大的一個情感的依賴所以如果我們可以支持這個老師待得更久的話對於家庭 對於孩子來說都是會非常好的幫助"},{"start":10846.073,"end":10864.939,"text":"可是還有一個部分也要請次長來幫忙就是說他們其實遇到很多的困難因為很多的老師去了偏鄉就像我剛剛講的他處理的問題實在是太多元了不是只有教學上面的問題可是他們常常都是要自己去摸索自己去撐著走那其實在去年的時候呢"},{"start":10865.879,"end":10888.917,"text":"我們也都已經跟這個我們這個許多的民間團體還有師培大學還有教育部一起來討論一起開了一個偏鄉偏遠地區校園教師入校陪伴的座談然後希望讓老師們不要再單打獨透我們可以有更多的支持所以當時呢我們講的就是官員的可敬性還有媒合機制然後以及"},{"start":10891.677,"end":10918.065,"text":"被動式或未申請學校的介入機制這一題其實要講就是說有些時候是老師覺得我很需要可是校長覺得我們不需要所以就變成是老師在現場孤立無援那第三個部分的話是不是有一個陪伴的人才庫可以去支持那目前呢就我所知這個人才庫的清單其實都已經提供了那我想要了解這些事情的相關進度因為時間有限是不是可以提供給我一個進度報告好"},{"start":10919.315,"end":10944.161,"text":"我們今天下班前給委員好 就是針對以上這三點提供給我們一個現在進行的進度報告讓我們可以跟團體一起合作因為我們非常仰賴這些團體再來還有一件事情就是說教育部有講行政減量這個對於學校來說真的非常非常重要但是我們的減量偏鄉學校是否真的有感"},{"start":10944.821,"end":10969.253,"text":"我想了解教育部有沒有去掌握我們現在盤點的150項的行政業務已經完成了104項的調查到底哪些對於偏鄉小校是有感的呢謝謝委員我們大概在2月底以前會將我們去年年底宣布的到底在學校實踐上是不是有感真正落實第一個"},{"start":10969.853,"end":10991.502,"text":"所以二月的時候我們就會統計偏鄉喔不一定進行統計怕統計又影響他們又要行政的負荷我們會用我們的方法了解這些項目真的有沒有落實讓老師有感這第一點第二點是在有關項目上例如我舉個例子同樣的內容同樣的人 承辦人我們不要再重複調訓他"},{"start":10993.082,"end":11012.095,"text":"第二点有一些可以用线上系统的不要总是用纸本报公文像这一些都很明显的我们希望在落实上真的看到这些东西坦白说以我们自己的观点来看的时候对于一般学校可能会是非常有感但是偏乡学校可能还是会有一些更独特的他一人兼多职了"},{"start":11013.116,"end":11040.315,"text":"對 因為堅持的部分是他們更有感的部分所以我想這個部分我們是不是因為時間到了我們會後我們約個時間來詳細的討論那是不是從這些他們所需要的行政減量來去協助這樣他們才會真的有感謝謝好 謝謝好 謝謝張雅玲委員還有關心到偏鄉的行政減量部分都是很細緻的做法那官員請回座好 現在請林佩祥委員質詢"},{"start":11051.769,"end":11075.324,"text":"好謝謝主席有請次長有請次長林委員好次長我們今天談的是偏遠地區學校教育發展條例那當初這個立法的目的是為了確保孩子不應交通生活機能涉及條件不足而失去所謂的公平所教權但是我想先請教一個根本的問題"},{"start":11076.587,"end":11101.761,"text":"目前偏远学校的认定是否过度僵化是否能停留在传统偏乡的想象呢因为根据第四条的定义偏远地区的学校是指因交通文化生活机能数位环境社会经济条件等其他因素导致教育资源不足所以说公立高中高级中学以下的学校"},{"start":11102.561,"end":11118.304,"text":"照理来讲这是一个功能性条件式的认定并非单纯看县市或地理位置但是回到我是基隆的选区那回到基隆时期状况基隆市目前已经没有任何一所学校被列为偏远地区学校"},{"start":11119.125,"end":11140.683,"text":"但是最近這8年來已經有太平、上智、粵梅國小因為學生數過低而停辦而八堵、上仁、馬林國小則經歷轉型之後才可以存續其中馬林國小目前的學生數只有90多人地處山區 交通不便 生活機能有限所以這邊就要請教次長"},{"start":11142.845,"end":11166.017,"text":"像基隆这类非传统偏乡县市但实质上存在教育资源弱势的区域学校是否有任何替代性或补充性的支持机制呢对我想各种这个偏乡条例当然它有定它认定的那个指标它其实是有在做滚动性的修正就是说从这个偏乡条例上路之后到现在呢"},{"start":11166.297,"end":11186.374,"text":"任定的指標也從9項調整為16項委員所提的說像基隆也不是只有基隆市嘉義市新竹市包括台北市目前都沒有這個定義下的偏鄉學校但是如果比較屬於像有一種叫做非山非市它是屬於它不是偏鄉但是它也是屬於這種"},{"start":11187.855,"end":11204.429,"text":"學生人數少然後資源比較少的部分其實我們在飛山飛市上面的補助也是有一些補助的計畫所以這邊是可以來申請的包括一些師資或者學生方面設備上都有地方政府可以依據那樣子的計畫來申請我們會"},{"start":11206.511,"end":11223.579,"text":"又先合語謝謝市長那我也想請教說教育部是否願意研議說加入教育資源弱勢的區域的分級支持制度不是只有列入或不列入的而分發呢我想我們那個條例上路之後事實上也跟地方政府也會半分區座談"},{"start":11224.119,"end":11240.057,"text":"那可能是因為基隆市它就沒有偏鄉學校所以我們大概在開類似的會議的時候比較聽不到他們聲音那委員有在關心其實也可以鼓勵基隆市政府也可以將區內比較屬於類似的看有沒有哪一些比較可以"},{"start":11241.559,"end":11268.315,"text":"有一些具体的一些数据的一些指标我们可以把它纳进去就是说没有纳进去刚才有提到它不是偏乡条例所规范的学校但它是属于非山又非市就是说它也不像市区学校这么有资源或者说它又不是在山上偏远的地方它可能属于在海边基隆有一些海边它可能比较偏它需要一些资源我想这部分我们会来跟地方政府一起来协助"},{"start":11268.775,"end":11294.187,"text":"好 未来我会积极跟信用市政府来跟我们教育部来去做一些协调或者一些整合那再来我想要谈到失职问题老实讲刚刚已经有很多委员提到了不过在少子化跟大缺失大缺工大缺失现在什么都缺的背景之下偏远地区首当其中但是我也必须在这边提出来台湾其实不是没有失职是制度留不住人"},{"start":11294.947,"end":11315.235,"text":"根據114年8月開學之前我們全國中小學原本還有差不多1430位的代理教師缺額但是到8月28號統計的時候全國公立的國民中小學的3300校的代理教師缺額差不多412名比8月25號的1430名已經降低七成"},{"start":11321.337,"end":11347.056,"text":"老實說這個讓人家有點疑惑啦學校整整在兩個月暑假之間反覆徵柴始終騙不到人的職缺如何在開學閒三天就能夠迅速補齊如果問題真的能夠這麼快速解決的話為何前線的學校長期承受人力壓力還存在當缺失的數理變成帳面化數字的變化的時候那偏鄉教育需要的恐怕我們還沒有被制度給證實到"},{"start":11348.497,"end":11367.154,"text":"我跟委員報告就是說我們一般學校的老師的那個簽調大概七月是處理正式老師那八月就是正式老師不足了他才開始去尋找這個代理教師那其實八月二十二你說那二十四號二十五號公布的那些為什麼會那麼多突然間變少是因為他的程序中"},{"start":11367.914,"end":11375.68,"text":"所以他後來聘任完成他趕在9月1號8月底以前聘任完成所以他就會急速下降3300所那剩下300多位200多位那這個現象其實這個只是是歷來是差不多這樣並沒有特別嚴重"},{"start":11383.126,"end":11401.214,"text":"老師說我們都知道說現在老師尤其在偏鄉除了教學之外還要兼行政跟校務那他們的實際工時其實超過8個小時就算有加給其實也難以反映說真正的負擔那我最近知道是說目前對於缺失問題"},{"start":11402.134,"end":11419.319,"text":"那政府采取的态度是放宽教师资格跟偏任标准只求有人能上课那这样会不会对于我们偏乡的孩子们这样的政策改动会不会造成二次的伤害呢我想最近这两三年整个教师的生态有一些改变"},{"start":11419.719,"end":11441.517,"text":"譬如說代理教師他的那個給薪的原額變成全薪那他聘任的成本跟正式的老師差不多所以現在地方縣市政府大量開缺包括偏鄉地區也是一樣所以我們在這個偏鄉條例107年上路之後我們剛才也有統計也跟委員報告了到113年的時候它的流動率大幅下降"},{"start":11442.097,"end":11450.544,"text":"其實是有的這統計的數字看得出來它當然它的這個代理教室的比例也從大概平均三成左右降到25%左右跟一般"},{"start":11451.536,"end":11476.428,"text":"学校的代理教师的比例13到18%慢慢在接近他是有一些改变的但是还有不足的委员关心说还有很多学校特殊的个案里面还是会有很多不足像刚才委员提到的像行政人力上他小校他要兼很多工作那事实上我们也因为这样偏乡条例里面设计有区域教育支援中心我们每年大概每一个支援中心大概就是一个国中几个小学我们以那个"},{"start":11477.208,"end":11503.027,"text":"很多縣市政府都以國中為一個單位設立一個區域教育支援中心為什麼 那個是一個任務編組就它可以同時整合這些國小老師的一些行政事務來支援那我們對偏鄉條例通過之後我們對這些區域教育支援中心的一年大概也補助400萬到600萬那個人力是可以來調配給這些小校來運用來解決他們這個行政負荷過大的問題"},{"start":11504.208,"end":11518.124,"text":"其實為什麼一直提到教師這一點就是我個人認為說偏鄉教師的工作負擔跟制度的設計其實對他們對於不管是對老師還是對受教者也好其實相對不利的"},{"start":11518.865,"end":11539.477,"text":"如何能夠保持住品質但是如何能夠讓制度繼續維持下去而且甚至說把一些我們看到的一些比較不足的地方透過這樣的制度改善能夠補齊我想這就是我們教育部的新政權委員關心的方向跟我們現在偏鄉條例設立之後我們很多委員關心的這個方向是一致的我們也是朝這個方向"},{"start":11540.077,"end":11564.535,"text":"不要因为这个小校偏乡交通不利或者是这个未知的关系让这个孩子的学习受教训受到影响甚至还有一些数位资源的导入等等这些都是时间不够不然的话我其实准备要问谢谢委员关心但是我认为说目前的制度那有种是并没有来得好只是说尴尬的点是说偏乡的孩子们他们是天生的弱势"},{"start":11565.275,"end":11590.718,"text":"其實我們這點大家都覺得很可惜我們其實能夠的話我們把制度修好一點然後希望教育部可以多照顧一點偏鄉謝謝委員關心我們條例上路之後111到114年大概開了23場的偏鄉分區的會議大概聽不同的學校不同的教育團體我們也聽取他們的聲音然後能改善的我們就立即改善沒有辦法改善的我們也會想辦法"},{"start":11592.64,"end":11605.749,"text":"繼續來想辦法來協助地方政府對於偏鄉學校的資源落差人力不足來做一些補強的動作謝謝委員的關心 謝謝好 謝謝市長好 謝謝林佩祥委員 歡迎請回座好 請吳佩義委員質詢"},{"start":11623.431,"end":11626.717,"text":"謝謝 我請教育部商量萬間市長好 請市長吳衛仁好"},{"start":11631.7,"end":11658.506,"text":"市長好我想全國的教師都非常的關心我們教師的權益那不只是教師這也是家長跟學生所關心的因為教師的權益有得到保障也就是我們的教學品質有得到保障這也是為什麼過去從2016年到現在10年之間軍公教的薪資調整我們一共調了4次"},{"start":11660.186,"end":11668.692,"text":"在小英前總統任內調了三次去年賴清德總統也調漲了3%這十年來我們加總是增加了14%"},{"start":11670.936,"end":11698.287,"text":"那過去2008年到2016年之間只增加過一次但是我認為這個還不夠未來我們也應該要隨著我們的物價調整社會的狀況持續的來給我們軍公教的薪資來調升那除了薪資以外其實在教學的現場教師有很沉重的負擔所以說有教師逃亡這樣子的一個問題都存在"},{"start":11699.227,"end":11703.731,"text":"所以我們在 上一次我在院會總質詢的時候也當場來跟院長請益 也跟院長討論說我們針對我們基層教師在終點費 在導師費 在行政加給上面希望要給他們提升所以我們教育部這一次做的調整提升也就是針對終點費導師費 行政"},{"start":11723.57,"end":11736.54,"text":"都來有所調升但是有收到很多教學現場的回饋也是今天要跟你們討論的第一個就是終點費我們的幼兒園的教保員"},{"start":11737.765,"end":11765.301,"text":"也非常的辛苦所以之前也有跟你們建議說導師費除了教師要來提升我們教保員導師費也要來增加這個我們什麼時候可以來實施上路啊對 剛才其實那個委員也有問我們會在這個月前開始盤點整個修要點完之後一樣追溯到這個去年的9月1號你們這個教保導師加急跟教保費的要點上次修113年嘛所以我們現在會再修訂對不對"},{"start":11766.381,"end":11768.263,"text":"所以我們預計教保員的導師費提升1000要點修完馬上就要來上路這個請你們要盡快然後再來就是我們的行政"},{"start":11781.091,"end":11798.446,"text":"獎金啊 你們是用行政獎金但當時我跟院長拜託的是行政加給所以我想要請教為什麼我們要另外去設一個行政獎金這樣的制度然後呢又設置了一個50班以上我跟50班以下你加的錢還不同1000 1500校長2000這個為什麼要設這個門檻"},{"start":11806.099,"end":11831.837,"text":"跟委員報告其實我們這個要幫行政人員加急來解決行政大逃亡這樣子的一個現象其實從大概好幾年前就開始兩三年前大概兩年前我知道說其實教育部就一直在跟行政院方面沒錯因為市長您過去也是民意代表你也很常在校園裡面走動你非常了解教學現場我們現在全國50班以上的學校有幾層"},{"start":11833.939,"end":11853.851,"text":"453校這佔了幾成一成多代表你全國有幾乎九成的學校他是50班以下的50班以下我們也是有加級就是說其實我們剛剛委員其實問到一個很重要的我們一直比較沒有辦法突破的就是說"},{"start":11854.671,"end":11871.334,"text":"其實行政院這邊站在整體國家整體性的考慮他會覺得行政家級可能不是只有學校裡面有教育現場需要這個可能有很多其他的單位他們也會是不是也可以比照你教育部如果這樣可以的話學校可以的話那我的單位也很忙這個"},{"start":11872.495,"end":11890.801,"text":"依據我對於教學現場 僅限的了解我認為50班以上跟50班以下的教師他的行政工作其實都是沉重的我們既然要給教師行政我們認為教師應該專職嘛既然要有行政工作我們要給他們加級的話"},{"start":11893.602,"end":11910.896,"text":"我覺得不要去設這個KPI我還要看你工作表現教學表現的品質是我們最重視的所以我們不希望行政案造成他們教學的負擔這個我希望你們可以持續去跟持續去跟基層討論獎金是有彈性的我們可以來討論持續去跟基層討論好不好因為你設了50班的門檻50班以下全國九成的學校都50班以下剛才也有委員提到說校長這邊好像也有一些請持續跟基層討論好再來還有一點因為我們這次有回溯"},{"start":11923.406,"end":11948.831,"text":"這都是美意嘛因為我們希望既然要增加前面的也要把它加進去但是呢基層也反映也擔心啊會不會有增加很多行政的工作來我請教未來這個地方政府要交什麼資料給你們教育部可以拿到這個回溯的補助其實我們撥款重減要交什麼資料嗎重減嘛對不對重減那地方政府要學校交什麼資料給他們你們知道嗎"},{"start":11949.611,"end":11968.799,"text":"不知道所以呢這個不只是尊重拜託教育部要去跟地方政府也要求地方政府對學校的心思關於回溯這一點的行政也是從寬從簡只要是合法的可以認定的從寬從遠來認定這拜託你們要去跟地方政府做後續的關心"},{"start":11970.08,"end":11986.749,"text":"那這個關於偏鄉教師有一個事情要跟市長討論因為去年的時候有開過公聘會那我看到有學者給我們建議就是說其實很多學術界都希望對我們的偏鄉教育來做研究也是希望來幫忙我們教育部找出問題解決問題但是發現到我們對於偏鄉的這個資料第一個"},{"start":11992.032,"end":12019.72,"text":"資料庫不夠公開很多資訊找不到然後第二個沒有系統性的例如說我們對偏鄉的這個調查其實資料很多但是分散的我們偏鄉條例第19條就有明定這個這是你們的法定業務應該要來編列預算辦理調查研究作為政策調整的參考我請教一下我們現在對於偏鄉的教師的這個流動這個數字我們是多久做一次"},{"start":12021.021,"end":12042.817,"text":"我們每年都有 其實教育部的統計所以剛才我提到一個數字就是我們的流動率我們每年都在調查每一年來做調查我們才知道說我們偏鄉條例上路之後我們挹注資源增加援額然後鼓勵地方政府聘正式援額現在一連串的措施下來這些資料在哪裡可以看得到我們可以有沒有公開我們沒有"},{"start":12047.175,"end":12063.804,"text":"這個學者的反應是沒有公開那連做研究的學者教育專家都找不到了何況是大眾所以呢給你們一個具體的建議就是關於偏鄉這個教育的研究第一個要穩定然後你要持續性的做"},{"start":12064.324,"end":12084.557,"text":"然後要公開我們現在也是支援持續性的投入這個很重要所以我們也看到那個流動率持續性的在下降對然後呢在這個當中我們也看到了就是因為看你們的數字嘛我們在2017年的時候修偏鄉條例的時候當時有一個重點設計了偏鄉專聘教師這個專聘教師的數字現在是多少"},{"start":12085.592,"end":12111.959,"text":"零人嘛這是你們統計的數字因為當年在修的時候我也是委員對沒錯那麼過去這個專聘教師要由誰來招募是由地方政府還是學校主要是由地方政府來招聘嘛來從我們訂定條我們修了這條之後地方政府招聘了幾次大概有用了大概這麼多年來大概只用這個用了12個人"},{"start":12113.888,"end":12129.793,"text":"只招聘了12次只有新北跟嘉義有招聘過而且招聘之後報到的人數更是個位數其實後來其實他們都比較傾向用正式的缺正式缺還是比較有誘因"},{"start":12130.565,"end":12155.548,"text":"但是我們當時這個制度的設計也是希望在偏鄉地區的代理教師一個吸引他們第二個是給他們更好的環境所以我要講的就是說從你們在對統計的數字其實是可以給我們的政策的改進改善做很大的參考的所以第一個希望我們對偏鄉教育的這些調查"},{"start":12157.77,"end":12173.303,"text":"這個要確實然後資料要公開第二個我們針對這個制度要依據你們調查的結果甚至學術界他們如果有調查的成果我們可以拿來做參考持續的去改進像這個偏鄉的專聘教師我想"},{"start":12174.844,"end":12197.578,"text":"這個0人那市長應該是不滿意啦要怎麼樣來改進呢改進就變正式的現在正式的缺比較多那是一個方式但是偏鄉專聘教師這個制度如果要繼續存在的話一定要改善嘛不可能連年都是0人嘛這個要請你們持續的來去有些制度上可能也與時俱進比如說他可能在現在的用這個方法的比較少"},{"start":12198.539,"end":12212.409,"text":"那我們可以再精進再想如果有需要的話我們會再去改善他的那個誘因讓他能夠進來制度裡面變成解決問題的方法所以要精進嗎好謝謝次長謝謝主席謝謝吳佩奕委員那官員請回座請林一錦委員質詢"},{"start":12234.481,"end":12237.842,"text":"謝主席 有請張廖次長好 求請次長委員好次長好本席現在還是要鄭重呼籲拜託在野黨不要再擋總預算現在已經一月了總預算案都還沒有開始審查連附委都沒有這個嚴重影響了這個新的一年度的新興計畫執行"},{"start":12259.989,"end":12285.884,"text":"那上次教育部有到財政委員會去報告總預算案未審查的狀況評估喔那新興跟新增的計畫預算高達31億元那包括好幾個項目喔那我們都知道孩子在校園的安全也好新興科技的人才培育一刻都不容延擋所以想要請教次長如果總預算真的還沒有沒有審查過關那麼教育部有沒有減緩衝擊的計畫"},{"start":12287.865,"end":12306.158,"text":"那教育部有沒有什麼話要跟在野的立委來呼籲不要擋學生們的預算好 謝謝委員關心其實剛才也有委員關心類似的問題那麼也替教育部想了一個辦法叫做這個第88條那剛才我問了相關的那個法治單位他們是說"},{"start":12306.999,"end":12318.997,"text":"是适用于基金跟附属单位预算就是说重大的新型项目可以经立法院同意或动之这个部分是指基金及附属单位预算如果是可以包含本预算的"},{"start":12320.625,"end":12340.302,"text":"这个新型计划当然我们是非常乐意可是法治上看起来目前是没有办法所以我们当然是呼吁说这个教育部分党派而且是从北到南几乎每一个县市都一直在跟教育部希望能够中央投注资源能够政策上能够支持所以我们一直希望说这个预算还是要来审查"},{"start":12341.283,"end":12358.459,"text":"不要說都完全不審查這樣我們當然在很多新興計畫的那個執行上面會有一些效率的問題跟急迫性不足的問題是 我們看新興計畫有一項就是這個豬苗地區高級中等學校的校舍計畫"},{"start":12359.58,"end":12385.461,"text":"所以我在這裡也要趁這個機會想要跟新竹縣的楊文科縣長新竹市的高鴻安市長苗栗的中東景縣長希望竹苗縣市首長回去跟黨內溝通不要再卡總預算本席雖然是台南的立委可是我也身為教育文的一份子我要為全國的學子來爭取最好的環境所以真的再次呼籲在野的立委不要再卡總預算"},{"start":12386.161,"end":12408.727,"text":"另外在上週就是2025的最後一天很開心看到教育部從善如流宣布了高中以下的導師費調漲到4000塊那終點費有調漲20%那還有就是加發了行政工作獎金這是本席跟很多委員們長期爭取的那總算有了成果"},{"start":12409.167,"end":12431.326,"text":"那國教署有說前述的調整經費全年度將達到43億這個7千萬元那本席好奇的是總預算如果被藍白帳卡住那導師費跟終點費調漲的經費會不會受影響那目前這筆經費就我所知道是中央跟地方要各負擔50%嘛"},{"start":12433.027,"end":12447.649,"text":"那中央跟地方你們如果在這個被卡預算的前提之下那中央跟地方的裁員分別要從哪邊的裁員來指引我想這是在人事費啦所以大概不會受到影響這部分不會受到影響"},{"start":12448.813,"end":12476.026,"text":"這是人事費不會受到影響我們有人事費裡面雲之所以不錯那未來就是說50% 50%這個是維持這樣子還是說你們還會再持續跟地方來溝通調整這個比例去年11月25號有找地方來談但有些縣市認為說中央要全員補助有些縣市是認為可以追溯到9月1號有些縣市認為說明年但最後大家同意認為說最大公約"},{"start":12476.566,"end":12493.177,"text":"這樣子一個調整其實是有利於基層教師的士氣以來解決一些過去沒有調到的這終點費的問題所以基本上大家都同意那後來因為看起來多數的縣市都同意追溯到去年9月1號所以我們就"},{"start":12493.757,"end":12508.923,"text":"好 就回溯到9月1號對 我們就都補助50%因為現在財範法後中央其實能夠補助的財源也有限所以我們必須要去說服地方一起來做才有辦法讓這個美意能夠落實好 那"},{"start":12510.584,"end":12525.171,"text":"現在高中以下的導師費有調漲那可是幼兒園的教保員在第一線照顧幼兒園其實他工作壓力也很大那教保費也只有2000塊那昨天有看到國教署說這個要比照就是要加1000塊那現在是說那私立會一併調整嗎"},{"start":12530.345,"end":12551.119,"text":"施力的會啊 會啊 會 會 OK 好那還有幼兒園的行政工作也很繁雜啦那有沒有也來調整這個所謂的工作獎金的規劃對 施力幼兒園的教法會這邊會啦 會調帳啦那工作費的部分我們行政工作獎金也要比照有這樣的調帳規劃嗎對 以公立的為主啦"},{"start":12553.4,"end":12573.875,"text":"OK 好 這樣非常好那另外回到這次的主題除了這個硬體資源跟偏遠地區的學校最大的難題當然就是人雖然科技發達那很多其實現在也很多之前都用所謂的直播遠距教學可是回過頭來講其實孩子最需要的是人的陪伴"},{"start":12574.575,"end":12596.244,"text":"很多偏鄉地區的文化資源相對很匱乏家庭功能也不彰所以很多孩子的爸媽是在外地工作那祖父母在村落部落裡面也有工作要做所以學校真的扮演一個很重要的角色它是一個偏鄉的支持重要的網絡好 那我本席認為偏鄉的師資的培育跟留任它有一個重要的核心需要我們來加強 那就是"},{"start":12597.344,"end":12621.267,"text":"如何引導老師在偏鄉地區有歸屬感跟自我認同感那本席在一個月刊就是台灣教育評論月刊上有看到一段話我很認同他說有精靈內在歷程轉換將認同自己是屬於該教育環境的一份子才會在偏鄉教育上生根那不論是在學校 在學生"},{"start":12622.228,"end":12651.908,"text":"身上生根讓教師在偏鄉教育不只是教書那現在的初任老師他其實不論是教真的分發或者是公費生去分發的其實初任教師到了偏鄉都才開始學習怎麼當一名老師所以偏鄉的生活跟都會去的生活又差異那麼大那所以要花很多的時間跟力氣來學習如何適應那偏鄉的生活方式就是說"},{"start":12652.748,"end":12668.599,"text":"可是這個就他的差異這個大怎麼樣學習這件事情在失陪的過程中很少被提及喔所以我想說是不是要在失陪的內容裡面加一些相關的這種內容讓他們認識偏鄉的地區的生活環境"},{"start":12669.279,"end":12694.681,"text":"對 瑋瑜的建議非常好所以我們在114學年度的這個偏遠地區學校學士後教育學問班我們就有協調那個協調會議上我們就有要求開一班的師培大學針對像那個偏鄉有些班級人數很少所以它有一些混零教學的能力規劃或者是差異化的教學或者說一些合作上的學習家庭教育 學生輔導相關的議題都融入課程的規劃"},{"start":12695.362,"end":12719.038,"text":"所以这部分我们就是有在有听到声音所以我们有把它规划在里面像初任老师也一样有些到偏乡去他可能去了以后跟他想象完全都不一样所以我们这部分大概这个新传教师的那个制度上也会对这个到偏乡的初任教师能够多给予这个协助好那"},{"start":12720.499,"end":12735.216,"text":"好 那我們再想 很多初溫老師他到偏鄉那因為偏鄉人手少所以他被迫要接手行政工作所以行政工作的繁雜這個我就不用再贅述好 那現在就是說那怎麼樣 有什麼方法讓"},{"start":12736.978,"end":12752.451,"text":"就是出任教師到偏鄉然後就任行政這個議題我知道現在好像有一個叫做區域教育資源中心來協助那現在你們實質上的觀察有實質緩解老師對行政接行政的狀況嗎"},{"start":12753.972,"end":12779.802,"text":"就是我們那個區域教育資源中心在各縣市政府設立我們也都會每年它設立之後每年大概給400萬到600萬的補助大概就是一些人力的調解但是它是一個任務編組就是它大概是以一個國中學區為範圍有時候兩個 有時候一個它就看它設的密度其實基本上就是要用一些人力來分攤或者說幫它來做一些行政上事務的一個統籌 協調 整合"},{"start":12782.083,"end":12797.061,"text":"讓他不要一個學校就辦一個 一個學校辦一個每個學校都要辦 其實這樣蠻累的他那個區域教育制的東西就是當時偏鄉條例設計的那個這個就是要來解決這些小學校的一些行政人力不足的問題"},{"start":12797.962,"end":12820.654,"text":"那當然現在上路之後各個縣市實施的狀況我們會再去跟地方政府協調在人力的這個協調上面行政的減量上面是不是能夠達到原來當初制度設計的效果它可能有效果但是有沒有辦法充分來解決這個我們也會在未來的會議上來聽取地方這個現場的一些意見好"},{"start":12823.175,"end":12836.03,"text":"就是針對偏遠地區學校教育發展條例我想這個我們很多委員都有提版本像這個民眾黨他有提說要修改第16條"},{"start":12837.952,"end":12865.625,"text":"那第七條要那個中央主管機關要補助地方主管機關要開設什麼專聘教師認證研習課程那還有像說有國民黨委員提說要修訂16條要這個什麼偏遠地區學校要結合非營利組織大專院校跟社區資源提供學生學習活動跟兒童課後服務等等好 這些經費他們都規定要中央全額補助重點在這裡所以"},{"start":12867.206,"end":12891.745,"text":"請教教育部就是說你們重整各委員的這個修法版本有沒有盤點需要負擔多少經費其實我們在看各委員版本的時候有些其實已經可以再做的它只是需要透過一些行政措施就能夠達到的我們是不建議一個大規模的修法那有些當然委員的版本講得很有道理那其實就是一條兩條我們"},{"start":12893.166,"end":12919.315,"text":"会尊重委员的意见那至于增加中央支出的那个部分现在因为财法法的关系我觉得在使用每一中央在做政策执行的时候其实都希望跟地方政府能够合作像这次那个导师费的终点费其实也是希望地方政府能够一起来做那后来得到支持我们才用各50%也才让这个每一政策能够落实所以将来修法我们是希望"},{"start":12920.115,"end":12936.611,"text":"如果有這樣子的版本我們必須要跟地方來商量這部分畢竟這個高中以下的學校多數的主管機關是在縣市政府沒錯我們在雖然說委員的這個版本是寫要中央全額付負擔可是我們到時候還是可以來談"},{"start":12937.392,"end":12966.213,"text":"即使在财劃法划了4165亿给地方之后我们对于偏乡条例所衍生的相关的费用到目前为止是由中央圈的来负担是没有错就大概每年40亿左右那如果还要再增加的如果未来在财劃法这样的一个情况下如果还要增加的话我觉得也要去衡量一下整个财务的支出是否有没有能力地方政府愿不愿意配合我们可能大概将来会一直全额负担的这种现象可能会"},{"start":12967.074,"end":12977.145,"text":"沒有那麼容易 坦白講好 謝謝 謝謝次長 謝謝主席好謝謝林益錦委員質詢光源請回座"},{"start":12979.997,"end":12999.298,"text":"目前的現行條文的部分本黨應該沒有在其他的部分沒有到16、17我們本黨只有第7、第8條那本來的現行的部分就是中央的有全民取消那就這樣子 我知道所以我只是說要做一下在主持上面一個說明那我也是很感念說教育部在現在中央的行政跟立法"},{"start":12999.778,"end":13027.942,"text":"有在才化法上面有一些爭議的時候這是他盡可能能再去做他做的事情跟地方政府來協調我覺得這個實事求是的做法是非常好的啦這樣子好那現在呢請中嘉賓委員來質詢時間4分鐘主席在龍岩先進列席的政府相守網官員會長工作夥伴記者媒體女士先生有請教育部張料次長請次長"},{"start":13030.585,"end":13057.813,"text":"莊委員好次長好 次長八年前我們都在教文委員會這個地方我們共同推動了偏鄉教育條例的這個制定那我想經過這八年來我們都看到了不斷地在修我是肯定教育部對於偏鄉教育的重視那今天這麼多的條文其實都無外乎從待遇從教師制的培育從各項調動的條件盡量能夠滿足教師也減少他出任教授的負擔這些我們都支持"},{"start":13058.433,"end":13070.218,"text":"但是有一些事情是我們教育部可以做的就是說其實我很同意等一下…我很同意林益勤委員說的"},{"start":13071.684,"end":13099.551,"text":"孩子 學生需要真人的陪伴但是真人除了物質上的需求之外他需要精神的鼓勵有一個不用花太多預算教育部可以來做的我拿這個東西來給大家參考一下這是在偏鄉長大的孩子到了恆春工商之後他所展現出來他那樣的一個氣質那樣的一個品德我們來看看偏鄉的孩子在資源有限情況之下他培養出什麼樣的特質"},{"start":13104.673,"end":13133.33,"text":"我是恆春工商製薯科張柏臻幫助他人不是為了利益而幫助其實有沒有得這個獎有沒有要這個獎我都會去幫助同學然後每次的幫助我都不求回報只是想要幫忙把事情做完拿到這個獎金我會分一點給前進隊的隊員們因為我們去比賽有很多資金都不夠都是老師幫忙出的所以我拿到這些獎金我會分一點給老師"},{"start":13135.287,"end":13154.265,"text":"然後還會分一些給班上的同學因為有他們也才會有我好 副市長你猜猜看他拿到多少獎金他要分給同學 還要分給老師因為老師帶他們去那邊比賽都要自己墊錢你覺得他拿到多少獎金大概六千塊"},{"start":13155.6,"end":13172.041,"text":"比他多一点他拿了一万块这是去年在我们屏东针对不分高中职我们请各校推荐利他这个同学在在校的期间内他有利他的精神利他的行为请学校推荐我们去筹了一笔钱每一个人给他一万元"},{"start":13173.127,"end":13188.628,"text":"這位田徑隊的同學他剛剛講了嘛他拿到這一萬元他第一個想到什麼他不是自己全都拿了他要分給誰 分給同學他要分給誰 分給老師有沒有看到偏鄉的教師要自己掏腰包"},{"start":13189.949,"end":13205.946,"text":"所以我是覺得呢我們知道偏向的教師付出很多可不可以教育部思考一下給予偏向的教師跟學子一些特定的獎項來鼓勵他們支持他們這個不用修法教育部可以做嗎委員的建議非常好我們來言喻"},{"start":13206.767,"end":13236.107,"text":"就這樣研議就結束了我希望次長你可以多說一點過去我們在教育委員會共事的時候我們有很多理想但我知道你剛剛講得很對當我們中央的才化法修改後把資源都撥給地方之後地方政府要不要做 做多少我們中央不能勉強但是中央可以怎麼樣可以辦一些類似這樣的激勵 肯定 表揚那麼讓地方政府讓這些偏向教師他得到激勵表揚之後他可以帶出這樣的孩子因為跟人家分享"},{"start":13236.967,"end":13260.48,"text":"資源有限其實不是什麼不是限制重要的在資源有限的地方下願意分享願意共同成長這才是我們教育的目的市長您覺得呢其實現在的獎項裡面也有涵蓋偏鄉的老師或者是一些學生啊比如說那個向思多獎啊或者教育貢獻獎都有但是我知道你講的這個是特別對我想這個是可以來設立來推動啊"},{"start":13263.362,"end":13276.253,"text":"好謝謝教育部的承諾我們希望未來啊我們說在法制面上在預算上在資源上來支持偏鄉教育之外我們希望看到中央拿出具體的行動來肯定鼓勵偏鄉的教師跟學子好嗎好可以好謝謝好好謝謝東嘉賓委員官員請回座現在請鄭天才委員質詢時間4分鐘"},{"start":13298.626,"end":13306.896,"text":"主席有請次長有請張廖市長政委員好 次長辛苦了這個"},{"start":13310.219,"end":13338.979,"text":"援助民族對於教育的提升非常非常的重要因為我們沒有特別的財產然後也沒有特別的父母所以教育是一個非常非常的重要這個教育的提升當然就是教育程度我先讓次長了解一下也讓我們的教育部的同仁了解一下"},{"start":13346.227,"end":13365.334,"text":"這個原住民的學生早期我是找到這個76年其實更早了更早降低入企標準原始總分的25%不是像現在的外加2%沒有只要能夠"},{"start":13367.011,"end":13393.624,"text":"愿意去考就降低入期标准临时总分25%这个是一个早期其实比76年更早因为我是民国61年就念高中了念大学是64年就已经受到这个优惠了那我们原住民学生的升学保障啊"},{"start":13394.298,"end":13416.155,"text":"后来做了修正这个外加百分之外加百分之二外加百分之二但102年我一直在这个要求教育部做调整所以后来有特别明定有部分的科系可以专案调高比例专案调高比例"},{"start":13417.318,"end":13446.799,"text":"当时是谁呢当时是这个台大那个教授叫什么部长很短的时间他很短的时间在教育部当部长但是他做到了但是经过这么多年之后我们看我们近五年大专校园学生出债协力差距原住民跟非原住民"},{"start":13448.474,"end":13476.533,"text":"的差距越来越大107年度是31.9到了113年度差距达到了36.85难以想象所以有两个部分一个就是生血的管道第二个当然就是很多错血为什么会错血就会跟经济有关系经济有关系"},{"start":13478.417,"end":13502.731,"text":"所以本席一再的希望能夠你們再做檢討2%已經實施這麼多年但是我們的差距越來越大是不是能夠再修正你們的辦法全部把它調為外加5%甚至當然我很難期待刪除最起碼全部調高為外加5%"},{"start":13505.199,"end":13523.533,"text":"然后另外一个就是学杂费我们先谈这个好了这个次长可不可以往这个方向我也有这样的建议我们也可以来思考看看不是思考一定要往一定好好的研究好好的讨论为什么评估5%"},{"start":13526.263,"end":13548.108,"text":"因為2%到5%是幅度相當大所以我們要調整要有一些依據來所以這個部分因為剛才講了落差34%點多難以想像吧所以這個部分請教育部好好的那另外就是這個協雜費的這些減免應該要調高112年6月29號行政院公布私立大專"},{"start":13555.649,"end":13580.624,"text":"学校的学杂费非原住民学生减少缴3.5万现在是不是还是这样我们也在评估当然可以有一些更加弱势的或者有特殊状况我们会提高补助包括原民的身份不是 因为这个不分族群的等于是对我们毫无帮助不会不会市长你回去好好因为我们是适用什么"},{"start":13581.482,"end":13603.818,"text":"因为我们是适用的原住民学生就读公私立学专科以上学校学杂费减免固定这个部分我们有另外一个办法有另外一个办法所以我们就没有办法适用那个所以这个部分这个办法从107年修正之后已经8年了"},{"start":13606.079,"end":13627.586,"text":"這些各方面的物價都可以所以這個部分已經8年了該修正了好不好這個部分這個就是也沒有多少學生啊原住民當然學生也不多嘛對不對也不會增加多少錢啊好不好市長我們來評估看看不是評估要討論啊好"},{"start":13630.654,"end":13654.319,"text":"要往這方向去修正了好不好好 我們會通盤的評估8年了 8年了好 謝謝好 謝謝鄭天才委員質詢那官員請回座請羅廷維委員質詢好 謝謝主席有請次長有請次長"},{"start":13663.357,"end":13678.119,"text":"羅永宇好好 次長好次長今天討論平原地區的這個相關條例你應該再熟悉不過因為當年這部專法能夠順利的推動立法您正是其中重要的推手之一"},{"start":13678.88,"end":13691.924,"text":"我想在這個發展條例三讀以前當時偏遠地區面臨的困境不管是學校的教師員額不足難聘還有流動率高缺乏專業的發展機會行政的負擔過重"},{"start":13696.245,"end":13716.735,"text":"優秀的教職人員長期服務和地方的政府教育資源不足當時正是為了扭轉這樣子的一個惡性循環所以才在106年11月三讀推定我們的偏遠地區學校教育發展的條例希望藉由這部專法能夠強化整個學校的教育措施"},{"start":13717.595,"end":13734.46,"text":"寬烈經費彈性運用我們人事包括我們提高教師的福利措施等都是希望能夠解決資源的一個落差首先我想先請問一下次長您從當年的立法委員走到了"},{"start":13735.76,"end":13756.209,"text":"今天已經擔任次長從立法到行政端如何總結這八年的偏鄉條例落實成效從當初理想中的制度設計有沒有執行過程有所謂的偏離實際的推動你覺得遇到的最大的關卡在哪裡"},{"start":13756.949,"end":13774.238,"text":"我想謝謝委員關心我想這個條例當時在成立的時候當然就是要解決偏鄉老師譬如說失智的部分他的培育的品質的問題還有流動率的問題如果從流動率來看我們從教育部的統計裡面我們從107年度當時的國小"},{"start":13778.88,"end":13798.519,"text":"偏遠地區的老師的流動率是2.14%現在是113學年度我們今年度是已經降到1.21%所以有相當的一個幅度2.14%降到1.21%國中的部分在107年度開始實施偏鄉條例的時候是1.92%"},{"start":13800.16,"end":13822.287,"text":"那到113學年度已經降到1.36%也降了大概三成多一定多多少少會有復讐的進步因為它每年移住了40億但我現在問的是您覺得困境呢一定會有困境吧我們當然就是因為偏鄉條例規定就是它要跟地方每三年要做的一個檢討那平常會在地方召開分區的一些座談"},{"start":13823.047,"end":13829.512,"text":"有很多包括在立法院也很關心有很多委員提出有關偏鄉條例執行要落實的問題要編經費的問題不足的問題等等都透過這些會議來反映我們也會針對這些反映來做一些修正"},{"start":13839.699,"end":13867.778,"text":"那包括我们那个施培的方面当时也有提到说很多在偏乡的一些没有教师证他想要去考然后他不利于他进修可是他又想在偏乡所以我们在施培上也多了很多这个培育的一个管道甚至在这个地方也是遍地开发就是说尽量去设连屏东都有市长我这样讲其实偏乡学校的硬体设施这几年有明显的改善了"},{"start":13868.338,"end":13883.929,"text":"這無用質疑可是我們現在要再講的是我們可以看到實際的狀況就是部分偏鄉學校的教師流動率居高不下就我掌握的資料過去幾學年專聘教師的聘任人數還是掛零"},{"start":13886.275,"end":13901.341,"text":"對吧專聘教師是因為當時建議的時候本來是其實針對沒有教師證可是後來我知道訂執法的時候教書團體認為應該有教師證所以我想問一下說後來有教師證的這些本來用專聘他如果做專聘的話他不如"},{"start":13901.761,"end":13930.143,"text":"因为现在大量市缺我就考正式的所以我刚才跟委员解释说他其实如果是正式缺他一定会对他的流动率会降低我知道这第一个第二个就是说代理教师也会减少所以等于代理教师的比例事实上也有减少的一个现象我想动一法牵全身我们大家都知道所以专聘教师现在就是有教师证但是没有取得教证的一个教师大家都知道现在状况都挂离没有人"},{"start":13931.064,"end":13946.222,"text":"那您觉得有没有考虑让专业教师现在买一个年限以后给予正式的教师资格我想当时八年前在立法的时候当然是希望说我们在偏乡的师资尽量能够稳定所以会有不同的禁用管道跟方式啦"},{"start":13946.542,"end":13970.178,"text":"那當然專聘的設計其實也是其中之一那後來他被其他的制度譬如說我們因為拉近了代理教室的一個聘任成本就是我們給他13.5個月然後地方政府或許會認為說那與其讓他流動率聘代理教室讓他流動率變高我就聘正式的所以我們這幾年剛才署長也跟大家講說其實一年大概"},{"start":13971.399,"end":13997.174,"text":"這幾年大概設置了大概兩萬個正式的缺四年兩萬所以這幾年其實對於這個正式缺其實對於偏鄉的那個原額編制不但提升而且呢它的這個正式的那個編制的那個比例也提高我要強調方法很多種啦你們一定也都會彙整啦但是要不要滾動式的修正當然都有滾動式我們希望要有更具體的一個方法出來"},{"start":13997.674,"end":14015.428,"text":"因為目前專聘教師掛鈴這個部分的資料還是讓我們能夠有掌握到所以我希望說教育部這個部分偏鄉教育的關鍵在於人錢可以解決設備的問題但是人的問題目前我們看到了有進步的空間我覺得你可能有誤解"},{"start":14015.888,"end":14039.131,"text":"你說專聘教師大概現在就是要有教師證嘛對不對那我有教師證我為什麼要用專聘教師的制度去拚我就去參加教證我能夠變正式就好了但是我們剛剛說的居高不下他的流動率還是很高嘛能不能把人留下來這是問題所在啊剛才我提供的資料資格是怎麼樣有進步我都知道但是我們還是看到有一些問題部分的學校所以我剛有強調部分的學校"},{"start":14039.471,"end":14056.344,"text":"这部分还是希望能够给予高度的关心地方政府如果有其实在因为他现场在地方政府我们补助譬如说很多那个有关偏乡条例给的那个补助给地方政府我觉得也可以请地方政府去落实有需要我们中央协助这样委员在地方都知道"},{"start":14056.964,"end":14081.631,"text":"就是说我们只要跟我们讲的话不管是设施设备或者是其他的资源我们都会有限这个会后我再跟你讨论因为今天时间有限第二个要跟你讨论的是说这一次教师加急终点费的全面调整以后课后照顾还有寒暑假的学艺活动终点费我认为被忽略我想在这一次我们去年12月31日"},{"start":14082.651,"end":14109.933,"text":"我们为了回应整个教学现场的长期教师荒我们宣布了加给3000变4000兼任待课终点费全面调高20%并且追溯到2025的9月1日起对2024对不起那我想次长这些数字也代表了整个教育部正式承认过去13年国中小的导师加给8年高中导师加给的动长不动"},{"start":14111.573,"end":14117.705,"text":"現象已經確實不合理也承認長期偏低所以教師現場脫節今天終於願意補上這一塊"},{"start":14121.693,"end":14142.77,"text":"雖然很晚但是我們還是總算跨出了但是我要講的是我要提醒這一次政策有一個明顯的缺角就是課後照顧班還有課後輔導的終點費目前一般課後以及代理代課的一個終點費已經全面調升但實際從基層反映的是課後照顧班課後輔導"},{"start":14144.271,"end":14166.96,"text":"卻沒有被納入這一波的調整怎麼辦你要怎麼看那個跟委員報告其實它是根據不同的辦法就是說我們代理代課的終點費算是一個辦法那個客戶照顧是一個辦法那個知己的那個方式那個輔導也是就是說它不是一般的代理代課的終點費所以當然很多委員也有提到說這個部分要不要一併來調整那我想我們會來持續來根據這個反應來做調整您認為要不要調整"},{"start":14172.862,"end":14190.61,"text":"我認為可以做整體的評估因為裡面有涉及到這一次的補助是地方中央各50%那如果要調整的話以現在財劃法之後中央的財力大概也是要跟地方政府尋求共同合作是不是一起來面對客戶照顧的終點費財議這個終點費這個要持續來聽好不好這個"},{"start":14196.953,"end":14215.912,"text":"我们那个资金你知道法制我们一定是按照各种办法来配合终点费代理代科那不可能代理代科终点费叫说才艺的客户照顾都来允这个办理这个可能会有一些用法的问题那如果要调整的话我个人认为说要跟地方政府好好谈因为那都在地方政府"},{"start":14217.629,"end":14233.422,"text":"那不可能全部单我们一定要转达到教学现场的一个状况我想委员来自基层也知道你能够把这个纳入到讨论里面可以我想台中市教育产业工会也跟我们呈请有关儿童课后照顾班国高中的课后照顾班的终点费"},{"start":14234.062,"end":14262.324,"text":"应该原则上要比一般课后教学高20%左右但目前实务上并未同步调整导致做相似的工作的老师人员领到的却是较低的终点费这部分我也希望说这个当然都可以讨论有共识的话我们中央地方一起来协助我想各县市办理国中小的一个暑假学艺就像你刚刚说的学艺的终点费也常出现终点费比一般的课后低这个部分我希望都能够纳入到而且再来我也要"},{"start":14263.919,"end":14288.157,"text":"把這些事情反映給你聽就是我問教育局他說之前你有找他們一起來開會討論說要追溯的部分地方中央各50%對吧教育局給我的回應是說當下的會議其實蠻多各縣市都在反映要他們去承擔這50%他們沒辦法接受但是那一場會議"},{"start":14289.602,"end":14310.769,"text":"搞得像是通知而不是討論所以我問他們這50%你有承認你有願意嗎他給我的回應是說他沒有我不知道你們的溝通到底是怎麼樣的落實那我想我們都希望能夠趕緊將這一個政策落實但是怎麼樣能夠更圓融這部分委員我想跟你報告就是說當時"},{"start":14311.849,"end":14329.224,"text":"二十多個縣市大家一起來談我們已經有提過說其實中央想要做這個政策想要幫忙調高導師費想要提高工作獎金想要提高終點費利益良善希望地方政府一起來做因為利益良善那財化法之後一百一十五年我們也切了四千一百六十五億給地方"},{"start":14329.847,"end":14357.261,"text":"那地方政府的首長更應該重視教育那如果教育單位不願意來負擔我覺得他可以反映但我沒有收到他的反應我目前接到的我們收到的反應是新北雙四都同意但是我要跟你講說新北跟台北都贊成塑製9月1號而且贊成負擔85%不只是新北啦我跟你講如果今天財化法能夠真正落實將所有的這些款項到地方"},{"start":14357.941,"end":14370.039,"text":"我認為地方就應該要有責任幫忙協助負擔 對吧可是到底現在卓榮泰行政院他的態度卓榮泰院長要不要去落實整個才化法"},{"start":14370.836,"end":14394.423,"text":"我覺得大家社會自有公平我們115年是按照原來通過的第一版的財化法我希望能夠看到真正落實財化法去執行那當然我也舉雙手同意如果真的所謂的財化法有落實預算撥給地方地方就應該要來幫忙協助部分負擔好不好台中也多了200多億我希望看到是真的有拿到謝謝"},{"start":14397.227,"end":14417.902,"text":"好謝謝羅庭瑋委員請行政官員回座現在請楊瓊英委員質詢楊瓊英委員楊瓊英委員楊瓊英委員不在請陳冠廷委員質詢時間4分鐘你好我們請次長請次長"},{"start":14426.935,"end":14445.448,"text":"陳委員好市長好市長這是導師的終點費的調整那我認定這個方向是對的那也提供這些行政工作的獎金的設計邏輯那對一些小校偏鄉學校我倒是有一些不同的看法希望市長能夠來參考一下"},{"start":14446.269,"end":14467.424,"text":"那目前的工作獎金他是分三級那第一級是班級數50班以上的學校校長是2000元然後第二級是班級數50班以上的學校處事主任主長科主任1500那第三級是未達50未達50班的學校那這些一樣剛才提到的這些行政的這些主管大概是1000元"},{"start":14468.525,"end":14479.315,"text":"那我們有注意到說他目前因應各縣市的地域性不同有放寬到全縣國中國小那各學制前5%的學校可以使用第一級跟第二級的算法"},{"start":14480.066,"end":14502.621,"text":"但是拿我們嘉義縣為例,全縣國高中小112所學校的實際狀況來看,目前只有國中一所、國小落所適用第一跟第二級,剩下的135所都是第三級的1000元。我想要請教這個邏輯是什麼?因為大校的主任有很多的協同的組員可以去分工,"},{"start":14503.061,"end":14526.79,"text":"但不到50班的小校我們常常看到是一人多工教學、教務、學務、總務、資訊很多時候都要去兼任那很多學校是人少但是是不但沒有更少甚至更多一個人要兼多個行政職那有些是為了要達到KPI那沒辦法他還要被迫去接受很多像是學習共同體這種大校不太願意去做的計劃案"},{"start":14528.861,"end":14556.008,"text":"這樣子的情況之下小校被鎖在行政獎金的最低級距我是覺得不太合理是不是可以請次長來簡單的回應一下你的看法是怎麼樣我們當然有收到各種不同的意見尤其是剛才有委員提到說校長協會好像也有一些想法我們會持續來聽取現場的意見因為這個部分當然也是在溝通上"},{"start":14556.708,"end":14579.401,"text":"也是经过了一番周折就是说事实上行政加急这个部分本来我们是希望用行政加急但行政院在协调过程里面不同部会有不同部会的立场他们一直希望说公教一致所以学校里面的行政兼行政为什么就有加急其他的单位他们的行政也很忙为什么不能加急"},{"start":14579.781,"end":14594.627,"text":"光是这样的争取我们过去有些校长协会他们也建议说学校也可以简化成行政用三级变两级整个在配置的行政的工作的加级就能够比较好一点我们想尽了各种办法这一次因为"},{"start":14595.927,"end":14618.704,"text":"导师会跟中检会调整的那个需求我们调整之后又担心说导师会拉高之后那个行政跟行政人员之间的差距不够大结果又行政逃亡你又找不到人我当导师就好我干嘛先行政所以我们才会设计至少一千那大效果两千当然这个方案出来之后有一些不同的看法我们"},{"start":14619.99,"end":14636.621,"text":"現在就是說有種我知道有人批評說你們是有種比沒有好但是我們是覺得說任何資源要爭取我們都爭取得很辛苦那當然有不足的跟大家致歉但是我們會繼續努力謝謝次長因為我們任何的調整"},{"start":14637.481,"end":14661.789,"text":"那我覺得都是有幫助到一些人那當然調整之後我們會發現到有新的需要活動來去改變或者是來去增進這些教育資源的部分我們再來慢慢想不過我還是要特別強調就是之前賴總統也提到與其一個縣市往前走一百步不如每一個縣市往前走一步同樣的大校也是一樣與其讓大校更多的資源不如讓更多的偏鄉特別就小校通常都是在偏鄉"},{"start":14662.489,"end":14677.618,"text":"在冰箱我們要給予更多的資源而不是做一個相反的一個配置所以我是希望說未來可以把一人多工或者是人力配置計劃量都把它納入我們的考量下面來去做這個修正好不好市長可以承諾就是來去檢討好不好"},{"start":14678.559,"end":14696.872,"text":"持續來聽取意見好 謝謝我們還是希望更多人留在偏鄉接行證再來補充這個幼教導師費的加錢我們也會我知道你們有說你們會扣去將調整的方向去研議但是我還是要提醒另外一件事情就是非營利幼兒園的教師也不能夠被遺忘"},{"start":14697.552,"end":14720.499,"text":"因為他們的資格在職進修跟教學品質同樣受到教育局的監管 包含立法院也是有這個肺炎力的這個相關的教堂東西 我們會在要點裡面一併來處理 對 不好意思 市長你再講一次我們會在修正要點裡面一併把它 一併把它處理就是不要把肺炎力就是把它分開來好不好不要調整上跟不上公用 我們就是一起把它納入考量 好 謝謝好 謝謝好 謝謝陳冠廷委員 官員請回座"},{"start":14728.383,"end":14742.899,"text":"現在請林倩琪委員發言好 謝謝我們主席劉昭偉我們請次長好 有請次長"},{"start":14747.313,"end":14770.41,"text":"市长好我们今天就这个偏乡地区学校的议题来做讨论本席今天聚焦在整个偏乡地区学校师资结构性失衡这边来跟您做个讨论当然这个问题已经也很久了根据教育第一线实务的统计像桃园新乌乡本席这边先做一个范例跟您做个讨论"},{"start":14772.911,"end":14798.249,"text":"桃園新屋区的大坡国中全校20名教师里面有8名是代理教师比例高达4成9个班级之中有6位导师是由代理教师来担任代理教师也同样兼任行政这不是单一县市的个案花莲我们举个例县府的教育处也统计了去年9月开学的时候仍有11个学校"},{"start":14799.209,"end":14805.114,"text":"共缺了18名代理教師瑞穗國小甚至連四年公告教師的徵選還要拆成40個職缺來發布結果還是招不滿顯示偏鄉跟原鄉的學校都面臨人力斷層的考驗"},{"start":14815.44,"end":14833.545,"text":"那麼這個部分本席認為代理教師在教學現場同樣投入還有專業但是偏鄉地區原鄉卻必須要高度仰賴代理教師來撐起導師行政跟教學核心的工作的時候這已經是制度性的警訊而不是個別學校經營的問題所以偏鄉跟原鄉的這個"},{"start":14837.426,"end":14867.006,"text":"學校長期其實面臨三個結構性的困境第一個是正式教師補不齊留不住第二個是大量代理教師承擔導師跟行政責任但是沒有等值的制度保障跟職癌的誘因第三學生在求學的關鍵階段必須要承受高流動性的師資所帶來的學習斷裂風險這對原鄉的孩子很不利目前地方政府的因應都必須要就是在九任獎金出示加分"},{"start":14868.147,"end":14884.399,"text":"來努力的留住代理教師那本席想要請問教育部那麼中央是不是可以正視偏遠跟原鄉地區正視師資配置長期不足的結構性的失衡 三個問題第一個教育部是不是已經全面掌握全國偏鄉與原鄉地區的學校當中導師"},{"start":14885.56,"end":14913.98,"text":"由導師的與行政職由代理教師來擔任的實際比例然後是不是有設定合理的警戒線或者是改善的目標而不是讓他長期結構產生這樣的變化第二個長期在偏鄉原鄉服務那麼實際承擔導師跟行政工作的代理教師那教育部是不是可以延逸來制度性的調整終點費轉任或年資採集或保障配套而不是仰賴地方政府分散進逐式的一個措施最後"},{"start":14914.58,"end":14934.63,"text":"面對花蓮市縣等縣市連續多次叫針招不到人的現象那你們是不是可以考量整體失智招募的一個重整的策略從編制分發生活支持跟職癌發展的面向來協助偏鄉跟原鄉來留住真正的教師真正來留住教師"},{"start":14936.13,"end":14956.501,"text":"我想委員提出很多建議我們都會列入原意目前其實從偏鄉條例上任之後開始上路之後事實上我們也持續投入了相當多的資源在協助譬如說私資的私資班的開設其實也增加了相當多包括原住民專班也都到處來就是一起來設立"},{"start":14957.461,"end":14977.495,"text":"那這個至於說你也指大學的原專辦還是對大學的那個是指的那個原名專辦不過大概在那個偏鄉要能夠到大學那個可能目前的學校數也不太多啦所以應該在高中以下也請你們這邊多多多多給予一些支持盡量來協助啦然後那個來改善那其實就整體來看還是"},{"start":14978.295,"end":14999.042,"text":"這幾年來的一個實施對於那個教室的流動率代理教室的比例其實都有下降的一個趨勢不是沒有但我覺得那是不是如果有下降的這個部分你們應該有相關的資料統計嘛提供給本席這邊參考當然本席這邊還是提醒比較實質的本席這邊談到的中年費的調整轉任還有這個"},{"start":15001.283,"end":15021.818,"text":"到偏鄉的獅子培育等等本席在提案裡面基本上也是有這樣一個建議所以這是不是請你們整體考量然後重點還是能夠在偏鄉原鄉不僅是資源的投注還有制度性的一個保障措施這點是本席的一個核心價值好 我還有委員的意見我們會納入來一起來整理考慮謝謝好 謝謝林建啟委員官員請回座"},{"start":15031.345,"end":15057.416,"text":"林楚英委員請質詢林楚英委員林楚英委員不在請翁曉琳委員質詢翁曉琳委員翁曉琳委員不在請吳思瑤委員質詢吳思瑤委員吳思瑤委員不在請蘇清泉委員質詢蘇清泉委員"},{"start":15062.277,"end":15085.104,"text":"蘇清泉委員不在請顏寬恆委員質詢顏寬恆委員顏寬恆委員不在請林思銘委員質詢林思銘委員林思銘委員不在請鄭正前委員質詢鄭正前委員"},{"start":15089.454,"end":15118.527,"text":"鄭正前委員不在請高金素美委員質詢時間4分鐘好的 謝謝趙偉我們有請政務次長張亮萬堅以及署長國教署的彭署長委員好謝謝請兩位質詢好 我們今天要審查的是偏遠地區學校教育發展條例那麼本席也有提案"},{"start":15119.187,"end":15140.754,"text":"那麼我就很簡短的說其實大家都清楚知道當時次長您在做委員的時候我們其實對於原鄉地區的建築法規其實是非常不正義的所以因此我們政府在推動非常多的法規的時候在原鄉就推動不了例如互助式教保中心"},{"start":15141.394,"end":15159.193,"text":"那當時因為這個問題我們來修了這個教保中心第四條的規範這個規範就是原住民地區可以用結構安全來讓政府的政策可以在原鄉地區實行同樣的在原鄉地區我們偏遠地區的學校"},{"start":15159.733,"end":15182.381,"text":"如果要分置分校或分班我們又遇到了找不到合法建築物的困境因此我今天就有提案偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第12條的條文修正我們希望能夠來參照制定教保中心的第4條的規範就是我們用合法的證明文證之前"},{"start":15182.981,"end":15202.762,"text":"我們必須還是要按照直轄市縣市主管機關認定它確定是沒有危害之餘就可以用結構安全界定的證明來替代不知道市長您對這個修法怎麼樣我非常同意委員的看法已經在原鄉地區它的建築物的特性所以其實只要經過我們"},{"start":15204.243,"end":15230.856,"text":"我们跟内政部其实都跟他们沟通说希望能够在鉴定专家学者一个协会鉴定那个结构没有问题无安全无危险之余还有消防单位也去现场看过会看过没有问题他用签证的方式他其实是可以来提供作为一个合法运用的场所这个方向其实我们是支持的那今天好今天内政部也有来对不对我们请内政部的代表上台一下"},{"start":15232.136,"end":15256.883,"text":"我們的次長已經說跟你們有討論過不知道您的看法是報告委員這一部分跟部落互助市的交往機構的條文內容非常相似我們可以併同吳立華委員他有併同12條也有提案我們一起來討論一起把條文整理出來"},{"start":15257.489,"end":15278.144,"text":"沒有 現在我就要跟你確定因為我也有提案所以我現在就是在質詢您您對這樣的看法怎麼樣我們次長的看法是樂觀其成希望跟教保中心是一樣用結構證明安全文件然後經縣市主管機關認定沒有危險之虞就可以用結構安全證明太低了"},{"start":15279.045,"end":15303.204,"text":"您的看法委員的條文是在取得使用執照跟合法建築物證明文件之前用這個來做替代本部是支持的好很好今天我覺得雖然我們恐怕沒有時間來審了下一次要審但是今天我們得到了明確的結論就是不管是教育部也好內政部也好都支持我的提案對吧對"},{"start":15304.125,"end":15330.955,"text":"好非常谢谢我们希望下一次这个召委在排的时候呢我们就不需要再充分的讨论了因为今天已经得到了特别的明确的规范我也请部落的主任尤其是斯马库斯的主任听好了今天呢我们斯马库斯的学校的分校的设立我们的教育部也好或者是内政部也好已经给我们明确的回复了就是呢"},{"start":15331.375,"end":15347.01,"text":"在我們拿到合法房屋證明文件之前只要是經過直轄市縣市主管機關熱定確定是危險無虞的就可以用結構安全鑑定證明代替了"},{"start":15347.39,"end":15370.417,"text":"所以我請司馬庫斯的族人還有校長們還有其他的部落的有意作為這個分校的或者是分班的都可以有一個法令的明確規範了謝謝次長謝謝我們朝這個方向努力也謝謝召委今天排的這個案謝謝好應該的好謝謝高金委員好官員請回座請邱志偉委員質詢"},{"start":15376.57,"end":15388.321,"text":"邱志偉委員邱志偉委員不在請徐欣盈委員質詢徐欣盈委員徐欣盈委員不在"},{"start":15391.428,"end":15405.145,"text":"好今天登記質詢的委員均已發言完畢另外有陳俊宇委員楊瓊英委員徐欣盈翁小玲還有高新素美委員都提出了書面的質詢"},{"start":15406.787,"end":15434.879,"text":"好 那今天的會議我們就做如下的決議報告及詢答就完畢了委員所提的書面質詢與相關資料都列入記錄並刊登公報對於委員質詢要求提供的相關資料或為其答覆部分請相關機關盡速以書面來答覆那偏遠地區學校教育發展條例部分條文修正草案相關草案就定期來做審查"},{"start":15436.617,"end":15443.665,"text":"好 報告委員會 今天的議程就處理完畢現在散會 謝謝各位尤其是相關部會的官員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}