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委員郭玉琴等21人分別擬據《動物保護法》增訂第14條之3條修正草案等2案10.本院委員葉元芝等17人 委員吳佩儀等16人分別擬據《動物保護法》第25條條修正草案等2案11.本院委員游皓等23人擬據《動物保護法》第25條之1條修正草案"},{"start":1478.835,"end":1490.116,"text":"12 本院委員吳佩儀等17人拟據《動物保護法》第22條之4調研修正長案13 本院委員賴銳榮等17人拟據《動物保護法》第2條及第6條之2調研修正長案14"},{"start":1491.38,"end":1517.086,"text":"本院委員鄭振銓等19人擬拒動物保護法第32條條文修正查案15本院委員羅志強等16人擬拒動物保護法第23條條文修正查案16本院委員郭益勤等19人擬拒動物保護法第25條之二及第33條之二條文修正查案17本院委員邱若驊等16人擬拒動物保護法第25條之二第33條之二及第33條之三條文修正查案"},{"start":1517.946,"end":1536.511,"text":"18 本院委員賴銳龍等16人擬拒《動物保護法》第3條及第5條條件修正草案決議所有委員提案與委員謝一鳳等人委員陳昌明 徐巧欣等人委員林黛華 林黛華 郭玉琴等人委員蔡依儀 張雅琳等人所提修正動議及附帶決議一項均應定期繼續審查 散會宣讀完畢我們進行討論事項 請一併宣讀"},{"start":1544.6,"end":1569.882,"text":"審查本院委員陳婷菲等16人擬據農業科技園區設置管理條例增訂第15條之一 條文修正查案二 審查本院委員李柏毅等16人擬據植物品種及種苗法第53條之一 條文修正查案三 審查一本院委員陳婷菲等16人擬據農產品市場交易法第6條及第35條條文修正查案二 本院委員邱益穎等20人擬據"},{"start":1571.403,"end":1594.209,"text":"農產品市場交易法第15條調研修正草案3 本院委員陳盈瑩等16人理據農產品市場交易法第10條調研修正草案宣讀完畢我們來介紹我們在場的官員我們的陳俊基部長還有農糧署姚世元署長漁業署王茂成署長"},{"start":1595.649,"end":1615.683,"text":"林業及自然保育署處長汪昭華 汪處長農業科技園區管理中心主任謝聖信 謝主任花卉創新園區研發中心主任戴廷恩 不好意思戴廷恩 鄧主任然後經濟部我們商發署組長蕭旭東"},{"start":1619.195,"end":1634.168,"text":"主长然后我们台堂副总经理胡冲平胡副总然后内政部内政部护政师检认视察还有我们的副退署副组长保护部参事谢谢"},{"start":1638.201,"end":1661.814,"text":"本日议程所列讨论事项有三个法案分别为农业科技园区设置管理条例增订第15条之一条文草案植物品种及种苗法第53条之一条文修正草案及农产品市场交易法部分条文修正草案本日会议来进行巡大及处理"},{"start":1663.649,"end":1668.88,"text":"我們現在請農業部陳居進部長就委員提案版本合併報告"},{"start":1680.197,"end":1697.684,"text":"主席 各位委員 各位女士 各位先生 大家早今天奉邀參加大院經濟委員會審查有關於農業科技園區設置管理條文的徵修條文以及植物品種及種苗法第53條之一的修正草案"},{"start":1699.024,"end":1710.851,"text":"農產品交易法第六條第十條第十五條及第三十五條的一個修正條文的一個草案那以下警局農業部中整各委員的版本提出以下的一個說明"},{"start":1713.496,"end":1734.737,"text":"那先針對農業科技園區設置管理條例徵定的第15條之一的一個條文草案那這個條文的草案基本上是新增的一個條文那是由陳庭惠委員所提案的那整個條文最主要的一個修正的一個原因就是原來設置條例裡面"},{"start":1735.896,"end":1752.806,"text":"是針對有關於園區的部分但是後來整個農業科技園區增加了有關於蘭花葉子那蘭花葉子過往基本上都是自然人或是相關的這些獨自的一個商號所以由陳委員所提案的這個部分"},{"start":1753.366,"end":1776.284,"text":"是針對相關的這些園區屬於自然人或獨自的商號能夠繼續從事這樣的一個行業同時他在後續的相關的發生繼承的事實的時候能夠繼續能夠有證語或是配偶或是直系親屬二等親的一個繼承那基本上農業部支持這樣的一個修正"},{"start":1777.064,"end":1802.182,"text":"那也建議說這樣的一個修正能夠追溯到適用的一個範圍但是農業部根據法條的規範的體力我們有做了一些文字上的一個修正但是基本上是一樣的那最重要的是我們又增加了第三項的部分就是希望因為在修法之前還有一段時間那是已經有從事這樣的一個計程的事實也能夠適用前面的規範"},{"start":1804.622,"end":1830.037,"text":"那第二個部分是有關於植物品種及種苗法第53條之一的條文的修正案那第53條之一最主要是針對違反了我們農業部中央儲管機關公告的限制或禁止輸出的時候如果違反這樣的一個行為的時候的一個處罰那原先的處罰本身是60萬到300萬的一個罰金這是沒有變的"},{"start":1833.619,"end":1851.472,"text":"那李博義委員所提出來的是在新增了第三項那第三項的部分他是將這些行為傳播宣傳有使他人效仿違法的行為的時候會加重其刑制二分之一那"},{"start":1852.613,"end":1875.323,"text":"農業部的意見是希望說能夠維持現行的條文那最主要的理由就是因為現在目前根據刑法第57條的一個規定如果說犯罪所產生的危險或損害及犯後的這些相關的態度可以加重其刑責的一個這樣的一個規定那當你有這樣的一個行為傳播的時候那"},{"start":1876.303,"end":1890.403,"text":"那個法官到時候的裁量的時候就有加重期刑的規定那如果說這樣子一個一個行為的部分有時候比較難判斷而且不明確或者難以認定那不利於我們對這條法規後續的一個執行"},{"start":1893.479,"end":1912.316,"text":"那第三個部分是農產品交易法第6條第10條第15條及第35條的一個修正草案那第6條的部分是農產品交易不得壟斷操縱價格那陳廷輝委員所提的第6條的修正是在第一項跟第二項"},{"start":1913.217,"end":1940.47,"text":"那基本上陳委員所提的是針對市場交易秩序或行為造成危害他加了這樣的一個文字就是任何人不可以這樣做不得以市場交易秩序或行為的一個謠言的一個不實訊息那基本上農業部是支持這樣子的一個文字的一個修正但是農業部認為原來條文裡面的就是謀取不正當的利益應該還是繼續維持的因為"},{"start":1942.971,"end":1964.966,"text":"謀取不正當的利益它是比較有實質上的一個判斷性那至於說有關於市場交易次序這個部分我們也同意放但是我們是建議說行為這兩個字可以拿掉因為最重要的是當你維持次序它是一個結果行為是一個過程"},{"start":1965.826,"end":1979.172,"text":"所以在次序上如果說我們已經放進去的話那行為的過程裡面我們是希望說這個過程裡面那我們可以從最後的結果來判斷所以委員提案的部分我們是建議著修"},{"start":1980.97,"end":1996.437,"text":"那第二個部分是第10條的部分那農民團體共同運銷的及我所需的場地它適同農業用地然後適用第15條的一個規定那這個基本上農業部去支持這樣的一個修法"},{"start":1996.897,"end":2020.867,"text":"那這個修法最主要是這一條是很明確的去定義當你前面的這些農民團體的共同運銷的集貨場地它最重要的是它的房屋稅及地價稅可以減半來徵收那原來條文它是適用第15條的規定那一旦第15條的規定因為它還有其他的一個規定就會造成有一些"},{"start":2022.082,"end":2030.072,"text":"有一些疑慮 所以我們也支持 就是陳瑩跟莊瑞雄委員的一個提案是能夠做這樣的一個修正"},{"start":2030.987,"end":2057.278,"text":"那至於說第15條的部分第15條的部分最主要是強調整個農產品批發市場的所有的公有土地那政府應該出租或是依照公告限職受讓那對於私有土地的話是由洽購或依法徵收這個部分那有關於邱議員委員跟林楚英委員等20人所提的部分也是修正那第一項跟第二項"},{"start":2058.098,"end":2077.04,"text":"那邱委員所提到的是增加了以其他合作開發的方式取得資然後針對私有地的部分有增加了租用的部分然後另外針對國營事業所有的這些土地的部分可以合作開發以"},{"start":2078.562,"end":2096.625,"text":"相關的一個方式取得那農業部基本上是支持這樣子的一個修正但是可能在條文上面可能會做部分的一個建議那第一個建議就是說在整個的這個法條的體力上我們做了一個修正那第二個部分是"},{"start":2097.799,"end":2118.964,"text":"我們最主要的私有地我們大概只能處理到所謂的那個國營事業的部分那其他的一般私有地的話因為他屬於私財產權那政府沒辦法去介入就是說要去徵收或其他的部分所以我們把那個條文經過修正了以後在公有地的部分大概"},{"start":2119.684,"end":2136.417,"text":"跟委內班門是一樣的但是在私有地的部分我們限定是在國營事業土地為限而且我們會強調他一定要經過中央主管機關核准他不能說直接就由國營事業直接去做相關的一個作為"},{"start":2137.057,"end":2154.566,"text":"那同時因為批發市場它一旦建設以後它是一個比較長久的一個建設那我們希望說如果是租用的時候它使用的期限不得少於20年那這個部分我想我特別再跟委員說明那等一下也許在版本討論的時候我們會更詳細的一個說明"},{"start":2158.547,"end":2182.138,"text":"那第35條的部分是相關於處罰的這些划環的部分那陳情委委員這邊的建議就是違反了第6條第1項跟第14項的一個規定那這些規定本身本來是除以6萬到30萬那委員是提高30萬到3000萬的部分那這個部分我想"},{"start":2182.958,"end":2201.543,"text":"我們可以分兩個部分來說明因為違反第十四條第一項的部分那它是針對批發市場那批發市場本身它的一個華為的額度提高那本部是支持的部分但是在違反第六條的第一項跟第二項"},{"start":2202.583,"end":2221.501,"text":"的規定那這兩個規定是針對承銷人跟自然人那農業部的立場是我們處罰對於自然人或是個人的一個處罰的金額跟批發市場的經營者處罰的金額應該是有所區別那對於第六條"},{"start":2223.223,"end":2251.064,"text":"針對個人的部分那因為考量到法規的一個橫平性那還有那個相關的一個處罰的內容應該跟其他的法規要有橫平性並已經考量到行政法裡面的第18條那針對所得利益超過法定法案最高額的不受法定裁罰最高的限制所以我們是建議維持現在的一個規定的一個額度那以上做這樣的報告"},{"start":2256.873,"end":2284.189,"text":"有關本次會議各部會所提的書面報告請委員自行參閱並刊登公報本任議程所列討論事項和並循單分開處理委員諮詢前依照往例我們做以下的宣告每位委員發言時間本會委員4分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘非本會委員3分鐘上午10點30分截止發言登記我們首先請第一位登記發言的邱穎委員發言"},{"start":2294.861,"end":2298.556,"text":"好谢谢主席我请一下陈部长我们请陈部长"},{"start":2304.892,"end":2325.748,"text":"部長好部長謝謝您剛才對於本席提案的這個說明我還是來讓部長看一下當時提案的理由其實是為了解決我們高雄果菜市場到現在不敷使用的這個狀態高雄的果菜批發市場是成立在民國64年那我們的年交易量大概是10到11萬公噸"},{"start":2328.109,"end":2352.36,"text":"這個規模大概是全南台灣大概是最大這個我想部長你也很清楚左下這一個圖就是現在的果菜批發市場的限值這個大概是2點幾公頃那右邊這個圖是我們現在高雄市政府新找到的位在台塘的土地上面是在仁武在果實的旁邊這個大概是6公頃左右"},{"start":2353.3,"end":2375.31,"text":"部長那你看一下為什麼我會提案修法希望能夠來盡速解決這個批發市場的問題高雄的這個果菜批發市場只有2.5公頃你看到在批發做買賣的時候這個動線非常的混亂拍賣的空間非常非常的小甚至我們連廢棄物的處理都是非常受限的"},{"start":2376.03,"end":2393.818,"text":"但是要解決這個問題當然我們要去找土地嘛現在最好的土地當然就是國營事業包括台塘的土地是可供使用的但是台塘的規定是他只租不售但是我們的原來的農產品市場交易法裡頭又規定我們只能買"},{"start":2395.138,"end":2414.754,"text":"對於這個果菜市場只能買所以這個就跟我們在尋找土地上面就產生一個極大的落差跟困難那謝謝農業部願意很正面的回應本席的這個修法的需求部長 但是我想要請教就是說其實因為台糖是屬於經濟部所管它在國營事業是屬於經濟部所管"},{"start":2415.434,"end":2432.183,"text":"那未來包括農業部提的這個修正的動議修正的條文希望這個東西都要經過主管機關的核可即使高雄市政府送上來也要經過農業部的核可未來在農業部跟在台糖在國營事業這個中間會不會產生一個gap"},{"start":2435.405,"end":2450.022,"text":"有沒有辦法農業部成立一個專責的窗口來協助各縣市政府解決處理跟比如說未來我們跟國營事業跟台糖之間的這些土地不管是租啦或者是協議啦或者是徵收的這些問題部長"},{"start":2452.203,"end":2467.359,"text":"謝謝委員的一個詢問那我想未來如果在食物執行面的部分我相信農業部跟經濟部本身的一個互動我們就有聯繫窗口那同樣的就是我們農業部也有代表參加台堂的董事會"},{"start":2468.18,"end":2492.098,"text":"那因為整個土地如果要租用的話在台塘的過程我所知道在台塘一定要經過董事會同意那相對的就是我們的代表在台塘的時候就可以充分的說明他的一個必要性跟合理性這個部分那我相信台塘這邊的部分那相關的就是我們會先核定這個主管基這個土地是當作批發市場農業部那台塘的土地是不是出租是由"},{"start":2492.618,"end":2520.959,"text":"由台黨董事會同意以後報經濟部的部分所以兩個部分我想我們會有一個比較好的溝通在農業部是由我們的農糧署當做一個窗口那在跟台黨溝通的部分我們會透過我們的那個公務董事的部分去那邊做一個溝通然後跟經濟部做一個協商好這個部分因為今天經濟部是誰來國營司嘛副市長對不對其實這個我想請副市長你們帶回去就是在國營司的"},{"start":2523.549,"end":2540.923,"text":"這個協調的部分來講我希望能夠把這個時程縮短因為就像您剛您看到我剛舉的這個照片其實我們已經是年久失修那因為卡在這個法條上面卡了太久了所以我們除了修法通過之後"},{"start":2541.624,"end":2567.052,"text":"大概高雄市政府我們會要很快速的來進行後面的這些土地不管是租用啦等等的這些問題所以這個可能要請國營司來大力協助我希望能夠跟農業部這邊來大家來互相配合是不是能夠把這個時程把它縮短趕快讓我們的這個搬遷啟用土地租用的這些事情能夠盡速的進行這個部分國營司能不能同意可以我們可以配合辦理"},{"start":2567.728,"end":2584.594,"text":"好謝謝來請回部長那我接下來要再請教您一個跟時事比較有相關的這個我覺得農糧署最近是不是感覺螺絲有一點鬆其實我在市場上遇到很多不管是農民或者是"},{"start":2586.554,"end":2601.881,"text":"菜農大家都在講我們的很多的蔬菜的管控做的沒有以前的好最近有高麗菜有青花菜的產銷的波動我們過去都會講說我們有做一些管控"},{"start":2603.226,"end":2629.743,"text":"至少那個量不要讓他同時出來或者是那個種植的量不要太多可是為什麼還是會發生這樣的一個狀態那量多了以後又加上冬季進口進口的夾擊你會造成農民對於種植青花菜這件事情價格的崩跌部長你們有沒有什麼解決之道或者是有什麼防治之道嗎因為這個其實我認為在我們在講所謂的智慧農業"},{"start":2632.065,"end":2650.595,"text":"這個東西其實是很基本的好 我跟委員報告一下針對青花菜的部分基本上我們查看了現在面積其實它面積並沒有跟跟去年是差不多的並沒有很大幅的增加那這次的價格會比較低迷最主要是它的產期比較集中因為當時因為從災後以後大家"},{"start":2653.697,"end":2678.064,"text":"同時的復耕的部分這是一個現象的部分那現在看起來從1月份的看起來這個價格已經回升了不過剛才委員講到一個非常重要的就是我們對於整個蔬菜的量的一個產銷的一個調節的部分過往我們是充分的跟北農合作我們有一個總量的部分然後如果說當它的量太多的時候進到批發市場如果量多的話價格一定跌那"},{"start":2679.304,"end":2694.301,"text":"我們會從北農那邊透過相關的一個機制叫產地不要送到北農去做這樣的一個協調那這個部分我想我們之前也跟北農再次的一個一個一個討論特別是我們會支持北農的相關建設但是我們也希望說"},{"start":2694.941,"end":2711.057,"text":"北農在這個部分的產銷條件能夠搭配用總量管制的部分讓他的產品不要都到批發市場而到直銷的這些或是甚至於做部分的那個冷凍的儲藏特別是青蛙菜是可以冷凍儲藏的部分再做後續的釋出"},{"start":2711.417,"end":2738.043,"text":"部長我覺得這個不是說你東西不要送到北農去就可以解決這個問題而是你在整個種植的面積上面種植的量上面從源頭你就要開始管控如果同一時間種一定會同一時間大家都量產出來你要如何分批去種我覺得包括在種苗的釋出上面我認為這個都應該要做前期的規劃不是說我把責任全部推給北農我全部不要送到批發市場上我改成照直銷我覺得"},{"start":2739.968,"end":2761.807,"text":"這個應該是有前後端第一段 第二段 第三段應該是要來同步做規劃做進行喔我希望這個部分 農養署應該還要再持續加強你們在產銷的這個整體的規劃上面這個應該還要再去做加強好 謝謝委員的提醒喔不要每一次量一大的時候我們大家就在想辦法要解決這個問題在收拾爛攤子啊好嗎好 了解謝謝"},{"start":2764.294,"end":2778.643,"text":"謝謝邱穎委員 謝謝部長我們先確定我們的議事錄我們是不是對上次的會議事錄大家有沒有意見沒有的話 我們議事錄確定 謝謝我們現在請陳寧貝委員質詢謝謝主席 我們請部長來 請陳部長"},{"start":2799.431,"end":2819.14,"text":"委員好 部長好部長 我們9月我們的花卉創新園區正式掛牌了 是那現在有一個問題就產生了也是我這一次修法非常重要的一個議題也就是我們整個花卉園區進駐之後我們發現我們目前有68家"},{"start":2820.501,"end":2839.721,"text":"可是我们自然人体独支的商号是达40家那如果依照我们整个农业科技园区的设置管理条例它是必须要以公司法组织的对 股份有限公司才有办法在这里面那你也知道"},{"start":2840.953,"end":2859.187,"text":"在我們的後壁蘭花園區我們花卉園區的前身就是後壁蘭花園區這個當時候是我們台南縣縣政府一路規劃然後這些廠商大家的協助才有看到今天這樣的光景我們才有辦法去打國際牌"},{"start":2860.988,"end":2877.15,"text":"但是呢因為整個的需求度太高我們當時就希望我們從地方的一個量能可以變成是我們政府中央政府的協助量能所以我們也在111年我們做了由中央農委會來掛牌"},{"start":2879.4,"end":2892.419,"text":"那一路走到現在今年九月正式因為我們國發會還有我們整個國家計畫的公建計畫核准所以我們變成了四級單位我們的花會園區那麼"},{"start":2894.602,"end":2916.7,"text":"现在问题来了也是这一次修法的重点所以我们待会会有修正动议就我们要把它修得更完整所以我也同意部长所说的就是说我们要趁这次修法把它修得更完整也就是说目前大家我们的厂商所面临的问题就是他没办法成立公司啊"},{"start":2917.461,"end":2930.793,"text":"他在第一时间进驻的时候他就是小型的一个私人企业根本就没有公司那你现在让他成为公司他有极度的困难另外一个重点继承的问题"},{"start":2931.877,"end":2955.394,"text":"继承的问题所以这个对他们是极尽不公平所以我会提修正统依照我们在整个比较完整性的就是说当然他的继承要以一人因为你好多人也没办法去做确认一人但是呢也就是他们是可以用他们过去的这样的"},{"start":2956.315,"end":2982.263,"text":"身份然後繼續維持在我們的花卉園區創新園區的這樣的一個條件所以這個修完之後我們就可以改變我們現在他們所擔憂的一些問題否則這段時間應該主任就很清楚這個問題是他們現在最擔心害怕的他們資格受到影響所以我覺得這個部分我們今天應該要趕快過"},{"start":2983.263,"end":3002.481,"text":"因為已經有問題產生了包括繼承因為剛好父親在這段時間過世沒有辦法繼承如果我們再拖下去他的權利就會受損所以這個部分我們今天在整個修正動議完之後我們希望今天可以快速的讓他通過部長有沒有問題"},{"start":3003.815,"end":3030.365,"text":"我想沒問題 剛才其實謝謝委員對這個議題的關心因為園區本身過去只有蘭花只有屏東園區它就是農企業進駐的後來蘭花園區併入了以後同樣要用這個社管條例那相對的蘭花園區的屬性跟本來農科園區的屬性是不一樣的所以針對這個獨資跟自然的部分是蘭花園區最主要的一個特質所以我們也非常支持這樣的一個修法"},{"start":3030.805,"end":3058.394,"text":"那这个修法过了以后农业部刚才的版本又增加了一项就是在修法之前已经有这样的一个事实的话我们也希望能够比照办理对那这样的话就是可以缩集追溯对可以追溯这个也很重要所以我们希望它是一个完整性的尤其就像部长所说的我们当时候我们能够去创这个园区时代背景都不一样是"},{"start":3058.974,"end":3087.731,"text":"跟屏東的園區跟我們這邊園區是不一樣的所以我們勢必應該要讓我們的所有蘭花業者會安心這樣我們才可以作為兵不然我們原本要讓他們還有條件結果因為這個條件他們要被排擠掉這就是不對的所以我們希望今天趕快去處理這個部分也是我為什麼要趕快去排這個案子的重點因為我們等很久了我們農業部一直沒有版本送進來"},{"start":3088.812,"end":3105.889,"text":"所以温南克蛋影响他们的权益太大了因为现在已经问题出现了所以我们希望今天要赶快过然后呢另外我们部长刚刚有讲的就是说在整个交易市场的部分这个部分我想部长"},{"start":3107.145,"end":3132.947,"text":"我們是不是可以這樣來調整討論就是說因為我們希望是穩定整個交易市場不要因為有人的哄抬或是刻意去做所有的管控而造成市場的一個交易不公平或是有哄抬物價的一個問題所以剛剛部長所說的如果以承銷人自然人你那個"},{"start":3134.128,"end":3157.789,"text":"整个罚还的部分要有一定的一个标准跟认据否则他也没有办法去负担但是对于批发市场是OK的所以如果我们在这个第35条部分我们把它做调整对于批发市场我们应该要有一个重罚如果我们都比照过去对他们根本不痛不痒"},{"start":3158.65,"end":3187.937,"text":"根本不痛不癢所以如果我們做一個修正針對批發市場我們應該要提高罰款這個OK嗎可以 就像我們農業部建議的版本裡面特別有提到就是違反第14條之一就是違反批發市場的經營者他本身應該要比較重的罰則那對於那個自然人跟承銷人的部分我們希望維持原來的一個罰則因為它跟其他的法規是有橫平性的"},{"start":3188.297,"end":3217.671,"text":"所以我同意你們的說法所以待會我會提修正動力我們一樣因為大家都知道我們台南是很重要的一個所謂的這個農產品的一個出貨地所以我們很害怕每一次很多的農民都跟我們說其實台北花園館我們這裡根本就沒有那個感受所以就表示中間有人剝削了這一塊利益那是誰大家都清楚"},{"start":3218.271,"end":3240.581,"text":"所以我覺得這一塊我們就是要有重罰才能給他們更多的一些約束跟壓力這部分沒有問題吧沒有問題那另外一個部分就是我們國際蘭花展又要展開了現在都在籌備了這個部分部長"},{"start":3242.447,"end":3255.662,"text":"藍花獸你知道它非常熱門現在我們這個花卉創新園區去年不是你們對嗎因為我們9月才掛牌嘛今年是你們"},{"start":3257.008,"end":3277.237,"text":"都是我們農業部啦對 都農業部但是不一樣現在是市集單位喔過去是我們委在屏東我們的農業科技園區裡面這一次是你們市集單位喔自己首次喔首次自己主導喔來我們就看可不可以打出一支好的品牌會"},{"start":3279.304,"end":3301.544,"text":"这一只在去年已经有点夯度了还不是很夯有点夯度了还不是很夯今年把它做出效果好不好做出我们的成效好不好兰花兽喔这个部分我对你们期许因为如果能够有一个非常重要的一个代表性"},{"start":3302.762,"end":3323.98,"text":"你也知道现在网路它的行是有一个代表性所以如果它可以变成是一个代表性它是不一样的我们期待我们期待首次花卉创新园区我们市集单位这个部分怎么样把它做得更好期待谢谢好谢谢 谢谢韦恩"},{"start":3335.291,"end":3347.344,"text":"我們請鄭振淺委員 謝謝謝主席 我想請下農業部陳部長我們請農業部陳部長"},{"start":3356.073,"end":3382.962,"text":"部長好因為今天主席安排了一個農產品市場交易法的一個修法的一個部分所以針對整個農產品產銷的問題我這邊有幾個問題想要就教第一個是我們台灣其實經常會出現農產品產銷失衡的原因那很多時候就是比方說價格暴漲很可能是因為天災那價格暴跌可能就是因為搶種那我這邊舉個例子比方高麗菜我看前幾天高麗菜的那個批發價的"},{"start":3384.107,"end":3404.888,"text":"每公斤價格低到1公斤5.9元相較於今年年中的時候颱風那時候來的時候最終的一個消費者的價格的時候1公斤因為那時候1斤大概到了大概80塊平均起來1公斤等於是130幾塊就是價差大概是一個是就是批發價"},{"start":3406.243,"end":3426.583,"text":"低的一個批發價跟一個最終的消費價大概差距到20幾倍那我覺得我今天要講的其實倒不是這個差距的問題我在想說我們要怎麼解決這樣子的一個產銷容易失衡的問題那我想請教一下部長因為農糧署在2010年的時候有開始一個計畫叫做大宗蔬菜播種量及"},{"start":3427.745,"end":3442.666,"text":"公苗預警資訊這樣子的一個機制那我想說因為已經15年了那我想說有這樣子的預警的一個制度那為什麼我們產銷的一個狀態還是沒有辦法有一個比較好的一個平衡 可不可以請部長做個簡單的回應"},{"start":3443.868,"end":3456.343,"text":"我想跟委員報告就是有關於產銷的一個預警的制度那相對的我們特別在針對高麗菜的部分我們從種苗跟它的種植面積我們都有提出紅黃燈的一個預警那現在問題就是"},{"start":3460.489,"end":3486.846,"text":"因為高麗菜是一個比較容易取巧的一個蔬菜因為它單位面積產量多然後價格如果說遇到一次颱風它價格可以拉了數十倍可以承擔這個部長我簡單問一下因為基本上目前就是我們有參與到這個農產品實際種植登記率大概有多高這個數字大概有多高"},{"start":3488.188,"end":3510.2,"text":"我們現在目前就是我們會根據種苗的數量跟我們用航拍圖看的這個面積去推估它什麼時候會收成並沒有讓農民來做登記這是一件事情但是我要跟委員報告在今年度農業部的重要的政策之一可能在下個月我們就會正式對外公布"},{"start":3510.94,"end":3536.314,"text":"所以現在沒有要求農民來做這個種植登記沒有做種植登記他是直接用航拍的方式去做估計那我想說因為我知道說事實上在高麗菜的部分其實我知道農業部大概會提早一兩個月會有一個預警我知道這個狀態那我想說既然有預警的狀態的時候因為高麗菜這邊它有很多比方說加工的部分可以去處理或者是出口的部分我知道去年也出口到不少到日本去"},{"start":3537.014,"end":3550.842,"text":"那我希望說既然有兩個月的一個時間可以去做這樣的一個緩衝的時候我希望我們農業部這邊能夠有更高的一個績效來做這樣子一個預警的一個相對應的一個處理基本上我要講的是這個問題"},{"start":3551.923,"end":3578.004,"text":"好 謝謝委員的一個建議我想後續我們會針對因為我們大概今年大概下個月我會公布我們針對大部分的州會採用種植的一個登記的制度然後透過種植登記的部分我們會協助當你的量太多的話我們會提前的去協助做這些外銷的訂單所以種植登記是接下來要推的部分對不對會比較容易去處理那種植登記的時候到時候會不會有如果沒有登記會不會有獎懲的問題"},{"start":3578.865,"end":3599.405,"text":"没有 这个就是我们要重新设计的过去我们曾经要推种植登记但是都没有推成功就是我们的政策的诱因奖励的诱因是脱钩的那现在因为农业部有非常多的对农民的一些奖励的作为那补助的作为如果说有配合种植登记的话所以这就是本席特别要讲的一个部分"},{"start":3599.945,"end":3617.054,"text":"就針對這部分的時候我們希望能夠真正去落實然後預警的制度能夠真正的有效我想這對農民來講是一個很重要的一個保障那我接下來想再請教一個問題就是獸醫的部分因為很多市主在反映一件事情那因為比方說我們目前就是"},{"start":3618.075,"end":3638.561,"text":"我看到農業部有個新聞稿提到說我們獸醫師法這邊是準備針對那個獸醫師用藥的這個部分是不是比照人醫的部分有一些不同的看法我知道獸醫師跟事主有不同的角度那農業部這邊特別提到說打算要部分採納研議修法"},{"start":3639.69,"end":3649.562,"text":"我想要知道的狀態是我們農業部這邊準備要部分採納的是哪些部分要修法的部分大概是在哪些部分因為事主的部分非常的關心"},{"start":3651.936,"end":3673.273,"text":"我跟委員報告基本上我們現在在處理的獸醫師這個部分就是在動物醫院的一個診療的費用的收費的一個標準我們現在正在跟公會談那這個如果跟公會如果說有一個比較好的共識的時候那在不同的醫院它的那個獸醫院的那個診察費就會有一個標準"},{"start":3673.533,"end":3699.526,"text":"OK 這個部分這個部分也就是我現在要問的一個問題因為我們目前看了就是按照一個就是寵物相關網站他去整合各個地方的公會呈現出來的狀態我們的診療費用掛號費跟診療費差距非常的大我想請教一下這個各地方獸醫師公會提出來的建議的數字是一個天花板價還是一個地板價我想他們在考慮的就是"},{"start":3700.546,"end":3720.786,"text":"它本身是一個天花板的上限的部分是天花板價對不對天花板不能比這個高這樣子我們看到其實差很多比方說以台南來講的時候它的價格可能是新北跟高雄的五倍以上那這為什麼會有這麼高的一個價差我覺得農業部當我們社會的主管單位我希望說能夠去做一個更好的一個"},{"start":3722.347,"end":3743.541,"text":"就是溝通讓整個市主能夠覺得比較平衡然後也覺得依法有據如果發生增值的時候跟說假設有增值的時候我們有沒有調解的機制我們基本上這個跟地方政府是可以有申請調解的部分但是剛才委員講的一個非常重要的就是我們一定要讓"},{"start":3746.083,"end":3764.19,"text":"這個寵物的飼養者去受到獸醫的時候不會被認為是敲竹槓是所以這個部分我們會跟獸醫師公會在談就是不同的限制當然可以有不同的標準但是這個標準的範圍不能拉得太高理解所以我們看到這個部分我們還不含比方說有部分的"},{"start":3764.89,"end":3789.81,"text":"比方說治療啦 手術費用光是掛號費跟診療費其實就差距五六倍所以我覺得這部分應該要農業部這邊應該要介入做一個比較好的溝通對 我們現在已經在溝通OK 好那後續有任何的成果再隨時跟本辦或是做一個報告那我接下來最後一個問題我要問一個狀態就是生鮮草莓跟草莓即食品的問題我想請教一下部長生鮮草莓是誰在管"},{"start":3791.045,"end":3807.41,"text":"農業部管嘛對不對基本上我們是在上市前是由農業部管上市後是由衛福部來負責所以說如果是草莓及食品就已經做成了草莓蛋糕草莓大福就是衛福部在管對不對是那我們看到了一個狀態就是"},{"start":3809.091,"end":3825.42,"text":"之前就是消基會做了一個調查他檢查了17項草莓即食品裡面有16項草莓不合規然後這邊都出現了一個狀態因為草莓如果變成即食品變成蛋糕了 大福了其實"},{"start":3828.494,"end":3842.008,"text":"衛福部這邊說他們也沒辦法檢查所以監察院針對這個問題他提出來的狀態是說針對草莓及食品這樣的一個狀態應該要從原料去做源頭的一個管理請問部長你認不認同"},{"start":3843.654,"end":3869.443,"text":"我覺得基本上針對這個農產品本身的這些農藥的殘留要分兩個部分源頭管理是非常重要的但是後市場的這些檢查也可以能夠追溯到源頭然後去做源頭的加強管理這是現在的一個機制是 現在的狀態就是因為它變成了即食品之後的時候沒有辦法去溯源追蹤所以說我覺得這邊都出現了一個狀態就是"},{"start":3872.458,"end":3882.921,"text":"生鮮的草莓的時候它變成了即食品的時候那衛福部這邊覺得他們管不了那監察院這邊覺得說農業部這邊跟衛福部這邊應該要做比較好的跨部會的溝通那我在這邊可不可以請部長這邊主動積極跟衛福部這邊做一個協調我們要怎麼樣子來做相關的一個"},{"start":3895.265,"end":3919.915,"text":"就是即食品原料的一個源頭管理還有一個溯源的一個部分不要變成說你變成了一個草莓蛋糕之後你即使草莓蛋糕裡面檢查出來有很多農藥的殘留我們都沒有辦法去做一個要求去做一個檢查那最後一個部分就是針對我們有一個農業部這邊我們允許的一個草莓依草莓為例的時候有119項可是在整個"},{"start":3924.617,"end":3938.162,"text":"農藥殘留容許量標準裡面的時候有五項去並沒有規範在裡頭按照衛福部的標準這五項正常是應該都不能夠查出來的那我們針對這部分我們要怎麼去做處理可不可以請部長做個簡單的回應"},{"start":3940.954,"end":3953.079,"text":"我跟委員報告因為基本上我們在做農藥的設定的時候是針對病重癌的防治然後這些農藥的高標準是符合人體安全可以吃的"},{"start":3957.898,"end":3981.393,"text":"那衛務部本身他在食品端的時候他有另外一個標準那後續我想我會跟委員建議所說的我們現在在跟衛務部已經有雙次長會議那雙次長會議在這個包括您現在講的這個議題那我們怎麼樣去做一些本來有列但是沒有列在標準之內的怎麼樣去做一個調和這個部分我想後續我們會來處理"},{"start":3982.313,"end":4004.543,"text":"好部長因為草莓真的大部分的國人都愛吃啦那生鮮草莓跟草莓的一個即食品這樣的一個狀態的時候我決定要把它做好的一個好好的一個保障不要到時候比方說草莓做成蛋糕做成大福之後的時候都很多的農藥在裡頭那這一定是我們所不樂見的好不好了解好謝謝謝謝謝謝鄭振琴委員的諮詢謝謝謝謝部長我們現在請賴瑞榮委員諮詢"},{"start":4016.089,"end":4019.27,"text":"好 謝謝召委 請陳部長請陳部長部長 今天是1月7號嘛對 那總預算沒有審也沒有通過那對農業部有沒有產生什麼樣的影響我想總預算沒審的部分大概影響成分為兩個部分一個部分是新增的計畫是完全不能動的"},{"start":4043.695,"end":4064.044,"text":"那新任的計畫在農業部這邊我們統計大概有16億多16.7億對16億多那另外一個部分是延續性計畫但是因為我們增加了很多工作項目所增加的這個預算那這個預算也是不能動用這個大概有74億左右對所以加起來將近有90億90億"},{"start":4066.045,"end":4085.627,"text":"所以這個部分都是受到了總預算不審查那我再更細的問16.7億新興的預算裡面有涉及到氣候變遷包括河川包括排水的一些改善的包括無人載具的包括甚至於農民的水利工程甚至於治山防災的這個部分那這個部分怎麼來處理"},{"start":4086.397,"end":4107.661,"text":"我想非常重要的一個影響就是水利的一個建設因為特別是在今年看起來很多颱風特別是在中南部的部分有很多地方在山坡地的儲食流的預警監測一直到農田的水利灌溉的建設還有坡地的防災的部分那這個部分都在我們的新興計畫裡面必須要去做的"},{"start":4108.041,"end":4124.411,"text":"那更重要的是在這裡面還有一些是要透過地方政府一起合作的部分那如果說這個經費如果沒辦法順利通過的時候那相對的對於我們後續在訊息一開始的時候的防範會產生更多的一個可能的一個風險"},{"start":4125.271,"end":4152.709,"text":"所以這些經費如果總預算遲遲不審不通過的話這些新一新的計畫完全不能用對 是不能用因為去年幾個颱風幾乎是對中南部產生重大的影響北部感受不深但是中南部特別很多都涉及到治山防洪的甚至很多一些排水的甚至很多農業的一些經費我們要趁這一次的機會趕快來做趕快來做的話有機會趕在訊息之前的時候能夠萬一颱風又來了或者豪雨又來的時候減輕整個災情"},{"start":4154.15,"end":4157.64,"text":"那如果現在此時不通過的話對中南部的影響是相當大的"},{"start":4158.163,"end":4180.174,"text":"是 特別在對農業那我這邊也期待就是610委員能夠盡快的能夠將我們的總預算就是付為審查那如果需要一些說明的我們很願意在委員會這邊來做一個說明跟委員做溝通但是不能說都不進到委員會審查讓我們沒有溝通的一個機會現在連讓進到委員會都不進來連讓一堵連進到委員會討論都不討論如果進來了以後"},{"start":4185.357,"end":4200.822,"text":"藍白是多數嘛 如果認為講的 農業部講的沒有道理不該給的錢 那你刪掉大家也沒什麼好說的你多數你也可以刪嘛 你有能力刪嘛但是連討論都不討論 連審都不審這個完全無法對國人交代是這怕什麼 我說藍白在怕什麼難道你是怕"},{"start":4201.522,"end":4213.936,"text":"你的這個總預算被大家看到了政府要做什麼事情嗎就是我覺得毫無道理毫無道理可言進來如果農業部編的經費不合理那你要 你要刪你要動我們可以來討論但是你連進來討論都不討論這個人民無法接受"},{"start":4216.679,"end":4246.099,"text":"對 這個也是我們一直覺得很奇怪的地方所以我們也一直呼籲就是立法院能夠盡快的審總預算因為它牽扯到對人民甚至對農民很多的權益事項我們真的再次呼籲藍白要以人民為念 以農民為念然後不要刻意去杯葛你連進來討論都不敢給討論的話這完全毫無道理完全站不住腳 完全沒辦法接受的也從來沒有總預算到了這個年度開始了連進來都沒有進來過這也是完全沒有發生過的事情我認為這個是完全無法接受的"},{"start":4246.859,"end":4275.025,"text":"那既有的預算他有些新增了74.2億這個影響也很大裡面也有很多牽涉到各個項目的部分部長好不好再談一下對這個部分我相信我們所有的三級單位所談的除了新興計畫以後我舉個例子包括冷鏈的部分我們常需要的冷鏈的部分然後相關的這些一些業務的執行的部分那這個部分都是在新興裡面我們增加的部分"},{"start":4275.325,"end":4290.375,"text":"我看到裡面有水利工程的水利工程也有對因為他因應了去年的狀況之後有在做一些新增但是這個水利工程有影響到這個包括水路保持的部分置山防洪的這部分包括大大崩這個大範圍的一個崩塌的"},{"start":4290.595,"end":4306.892,"text":"大規模崩塌還有土石流大規模崩塌這個都是因應到去年的狀況有再做一些調整但是我們因為像高雄這邊有非常多的因為這次颱風增加的部分去年幾個颱風造成很大的一個然後所以我們在原系性的計畫有新增的這些經費那這些經費也不能"},{"start":4307.666,"end":4331.515,"text":"我去年在上那個山上的時候像六龜或什麼的地方那個幾乎是全面整個崩塌下來整個水道幾乎完全水路完全是被土石所崩塌的影響這個要盡快來做你不做的話那整個莊頭幾乎整個受到很大的影響好不好這個我們希望要一方面持續跟藍白國會溝通一方面也持續跟社會溝通讓社會知道這個經費是非常的重要的"},{"start":4332.317,"end":4339.386,"text":"會 我想我們會盡量的去做這些說明還有裡面有很多包括穩定材料 資材 甚至於整個"},{"start":4340.663,"end":4360.855,"text":"阿里山軸線的一些躍升甚至於安全檢驗甚至於動物的一些檢驗這個都很重要我認為這很重要還有我覺得講更對農民更有影響的我們的很多肥料的補助的部分那因為我們在設計上面今年度有明年度今年度有一些新的經費那這個部分我想也因為總預算的關係沒有辦法去增加"},{"start":4363.116,"end":4392.085,"text":"藍白國會說明以外也要持續的對社會做說明好不好社會更支持的話預算才有可能省的好不好另外我覺得農業部有提了一個這個東西其實我覺得這個很好啦現在大家都幾乎到手機的時代了連老人家連老農都不管老農親農大家都要用手機了那你如果把你的服務整合到手機裡面的話其實會更便利不管是查詢退休金還是子女的獎學金或者是農業的天然災害的補助啊或者是一些相關的事項都可以甚至申請我認為這個很好"},{"start":4392.985,"end":4414.538,"text":"這個部分本來預定在去年年底就要開始來推動現在推動了沒我們預計在今年度我們現在已經在1月2號開始已經有兩個地點我們要先做示範一個在桃園一個在嘉義那我們做示範完了以後大概上個月如果說大家很順利的話我看到你們是預計在114年12月中旬要開始來提供"},{"start":4414.878,"end":4436.067,"text":"我們正式是在今年的1月2號我們就在兩個縣市這邊先做試辦然後三個月之內如果大家沒問題的話我們會全這個要用到今年的經費嗎這個也要用到今年的經費啊新增經費嗎這個算是延續計畫裡面如果總預算沒有審查通過的話這個可以做嗎也沒辦法去總預算沒有過這也沒辦法做"},{"start":4436.653,"end":4463.632,"text":"沒有辦法這個我也希望盡快來推動好不好那也希望持續的對社會各界說明好不好因為這件事情我認為對老農對青農都很重要現在大家幾乎都用手機可以得到很多資訊如果透過APP其實經費並不多1272萬如果能夠做這件事情的話其實對我們很多的資訊都會有很大的幫助我們有17項的這些對農民的服務都放在這裡面去做整合性的協助再要請教一下這一次的共軍的演習的部分對我們的漁民也造成很大的影響這個部分"},{"start":4465.473,"end":4483.17,"text":"造成多少損失我想這個損失現在目前是沒有辦法去估算的因為它演習的時候讓我們的漁民是沒辦法出海的部分我看澎湖 永安很多地方的漁民都沒辦法出海對 沒辦法出海 是然後這種演習的部分會造成"},{"start":4484.361,"end":4509.542,"text":"漁民的一些恐慌這是最重要的就是說他們蠻擔心這樣子所以我個人覺得說用這樣子一個圍島式的這種軍演是沒有道理的我就站在農業部長站在漁業署長角度要強力的譴責啦要幫漁民發聲要勇於去發聲好不好這件事情也要讓大家知道這種惡劣的行為環島的軍演造成我們漁民的一些損害讓沿境海漁民沒出海就沒錢賺了"},{"start":4510.823,"end":4534.691,"text":"你少一天就少一天 少兩天就少兩天所以這件事情要不斷的對社會各界做說明我覺得第一時間都要不斷的揭露各項資訊然後同時間去譴責站在農民 漁民的角度 站在農業部的角度要做強烈的譴責最後再請教一下我們的猴群到了市區不管是在山區或原鄉都有很大的一些影響我們上次有提過電維網的部分這個能不能加速來推動"},{"start":4535.533,"end":4559.184,"text":"我想這個部分我們也會去加速推動然後事實上我們林保署現在開始也在跟一些地區做一些示範性的去做這邊移除啦因為猴的密度是越來越高你如果沒有適當的 不想高雄的猴子是在市區都會跑到了來騷擾到了一般的人民然後在山區裡面都會去偷採水果也造成農民很大的困擾"},{"start":4559.924,"end":4581.112,"text":"所以我覺得這些要你要好的方法就是用電維網讓他不要去影響到這個我們會加速的去推動這要加速補助加速協助農民來推動才不會造成人跟猴之間的一些衝突了解好不好這個請農業部部長這給我一個月給我一份你們的評估報告好不好就怎麼樣來加速推動電維網的一個制度好不好好謝謝謝謝賴銳榮委員的諮詢謝謝部長我們現在請張祺凱委員諮詢"},{"start":4602.312,"end":4628.158,"text":"謝謝主席 請問陳部長我們請陳部長這也是你的啦 瑞郎委員好我聽 剛才民進黨的地位啊 說總預算被卡住了卡住總預算的不就是賴清德總統跟卓鴻泰行政院長嗎從國際上來看全世界的民主國家"},{"start":4629.068,"end":4655.712,"text":"哪有一個立法院三讀通過的法定預算不編的從中華民國的歷史來看包括以前民進黨執政的陳水扁時代蔡英文時代那種立法院通過的三讀預算不編的呢卡關準預算我也跟委員報告也沒有一個立法院沒有立法院在年度的時候都還沒有審去今年度的預算從來沒有過就是因為賴清德跟總統太卡關嘛"},{"start":4657.148,"end":4677.469,"text":"這全世界的笑話存在賴清德一念之間他想通了總預算馬上就審 馬上沒有卡關的問題總預算卡關去年也卡住啊 保定你應該很清楚啊 去年為什麼卡住農業部立法院通過了公糧收購要調高"},{"start":4679.29,"end":4690.245,"text":"你一直卡還有原住民的進法補償行政院 醫療長都不偏我們非常尊重委員的我現在非常尊重委員我也很尊重你所以相對的我們預算盡快的來審保定"},{"start":4694.49,"end":4709.835,"text":"就是因為總統跟行政院把他卡住你趕快編法定預算進來我們可以把總預算進到委員會審查的說委員有任何意見那還可以再做後續的不管是追加或其他的方式來處理去年不就是卡關以後有成功解決的成功個案嗎"},{"start":4711.01,"end":4738.871,"text":"去年 你的公糧收購你沒有編後來不是我代表黨團我們到行政院去草野協商嗎你也在場啊後來你們引落了把原住民的進法補償條例調高把公糧收購調高一算不就省了嗎你們先自殺問題你們不解決問題我們跟你草野協商我現在也跟你講了我跟委員報告喔如果委員任何的一個條案說今天要調高 把新人的條金欸 姑娘有先說對不對我聽"},{"start":4741.195,"end":4767.697,"text":"去年公糧收購解決啦公糧收購的不是你的貢獻絕對不是你的貢獻你是說調高五塊錢五塊錢的話今天水稻就倒掉了我們是透過整個的不是好好的嗎我告訴你我們的設計完全跟你的不一樣我們的設計完全跟你不一樣今年的糧價非常好絕對不是你的貢獻是我們農業部針對糧食產業升級多方面的一些去支持才有的"},{"start":4768.457,"end":4795.188,"text":"有嘛對不對你都沒有調你那個整個施政都是假的啦最核心的農民講得清清楚楚嘛你該調高我公糧收購的價格你也調那麼我現在這個問題講你去年卡關就是賴清德只要想通一念之間公糧收購問題解決原住民問題解決嘛公糧收購的是農業部單獨的問題今年卡住了今年卡住了金人家新昨天晚上還發生了不幸事情我們F16V的這個揮官"},{"start":4797.268,"end":4805.667,"text":"發生事故跳傘到現在人都還沒有找到我們在野黨包括民眾黨要求提案軍人每個月加薪三萬塊都通過啦"},{"start":4807.352,"end":4834.551,"text":"你現在趕快加薪這個問題不就解決哪有考官這個問題所以我現在提醒一下全世界民主國家都是這樣解決問題的中華民國也是這樣解決問題去年更有成功的只要把金人的問題解決把警消人員所得貼的問題解決跟去年一樣沒有考官問題馬上審議算所以現在考官的是總統跟行政院長好接下來我要跟你談老農的經濟安全的問題就是退休除金等一下我們要進行討論嘛"},{"start":4835.988,"end":4864.15,"text":"還有老農津貼的這個問題那現在變成當地咖啦老農的這個晚年經濟的這個安全網啊變當地咖第一個我們退休儲金漲不大第二個老農津貼啊一直在限制當中我先給大家看一下農業部說啊要照顧我們的老農要做兩件事情就是退休制度由老農津貼跟農民的退休儲金共同的過程然後我給大家看一下這個"},{"start":4866.124,"end":4885.163,"text":"老榮今天從民國84年的6月份開始開辦那時候一個月3000塊錢 到現在調高到最新的是8100塊錢他很多時候是依照物價指數GPI來調整的調了多少 38.57可是部長我可以看一個更嚴重的事情"},{"start":4887.366,"end":4916.594,"text":"右邊這個這是台灣民眾每個月消費的支出在民國84年12501塊錢到了今年 到了113年變多少2600多欸所以就遠遠追不到嘛 追不上去嘛 對不對所以在上個月24號我們在未還跟經濟的聯席會上很多議委 包括民眾黨都有提說要把這個老農津貼的幅度要適度的提高你說送到行政院 那現在已經定案了嗎 要提高多少"},{"start":4918.72,"end":4935.758,"text":"我跟委員報告 今天是在審我們相關的這些農業 科技 研究 植物 品種學那相關的這些農民退休的一個制度我們上次在委員會已經報告過了那現在您這邊所提到的我今天就是要追蹤說你到底定你不是說送到行政院兩個禮拜定了沒有"},{"start":4936.448,"end":4958.129,"text":"我們當然訂了我們只是在等適當的時間送到院會裡面會送到立法院來我跟你委員報告您在這邊提的這些經費這些經費如果大家討論有共識那大家OK行政部門跟立法部門如果有共識那退就非常順那同樣的如果總預算"},{"start":4959.226,"end":4987.866,"text":"不去處理再多的法案增加農民福利的東西也沒辦法做啦所以回歸段還是要在總預算要盡快的去實行全國民眾都知道嘛趕快把金人加薪景蕭的手的替代那個解決啦總預算就省啊就農業部的預算來講我們哪一個部分如果在委員會大家可以有問題我們可以處理這次你有解決了這次用同樣方法趕快啊就沒有卡關問題啊你現在在講我現在問你老人津貼後來訂了嗎"},{"start":4989.505,"end":5013.272,"text":"你覺得今天還不適合講就對了我們內部當然訂了啊訂了是不是今天還不適合講就對了啦是不是我們送到立法院立法委員就知道啦你以前的質詢答詢不是這樣子啦對不對因為我覺得你非常不合理啊你真的非常不合理啊為什麼不合理我覺得我們的所有的總預算應該該進到委員會就進到委員會如果委員會有任何的問題不管在哪個部會有問題的都可以在那個部會去提嘛"},{"start":5013.852,"end":5018.175,"text":"那舊農業部來講沒有 舊農業部來講農業部的預算已經沒有了他進到經濟委員會好了啊你們在行政你們為什麼不在經濟委員會去來執行農業部的預算那不就是一個解決問題的方法嗎你去年為什麼要去"},{"start":5037.625,"end":5052.71,"text":"我不是因為你去的對啊我不是因為你去的那是為國家大政嘛那是一個正常的國家正常的體制正常的方法嘛任何的立法院的增加的預算立法院增加的預算我們三長民眾黨團的三長國民黨的三長民進黨的三長一起去把問題解決了嘛"},{"start":5054.19,"end":5076.025,"text":"我今天是在提供的 不要吵架我們現在共同要解決問題好不好 時間到了去年既然可以成功 當然今天你是在威脅我覺得你是用這種東西去威脅我們的預算預算一定要進到審查你這樣講不就是威脅別人嗎最重要是用法治面來解決問題全世界的民主國家都這樣解決以前的民進黨政府連陳水扁 連蔡英文都這樣解決我們農業部的預算絕對經得起考驗只要進到委員會 我們就來溝通嘛"},{"start":5081.929,"end":5085.672,"text":"趕快跟總統跟院長講啊趕快解決法定預算的問題我們時間到了 謝謝謝謝 我們請楊瓊英委員質詢謝謝主席 楊瓊英發言 邀請部長我們請部長"},{"start":5114.132,"end":5134.604,"text":"副長好副長我們來討論1月2號報導農業部我們農糧署有說為了要提升蔬果農藥安全管理所以你今年運用了我們的農業藥物試驗所研發的植捕儀快速篩檢的技術在各地來輔導"},{"start":5135.925,"end":5152.078,"text":"然後由他們來自主檢驗那來落實檢驗合格再上市因為現在的民眾對於這個安全度 食安大家是非常重視那所以在這個看到統計是112年到114年你已經完成了81490件那你也輔導了7062件那延後來採收 換句話說"},{"start":5163.727,"end":5189.645,"text":"在你的八萬多件裡頭幾乎快要有一層是發掘是有狀態的所以有狀態你請他們延後採收這是對的因為我們一定要合格再上市這個原則那同時你也建構了五台五台的這個質樸快檢行動檢驗車來提供各產地來做服務那所以你也表示了"},{"start":5191.306,"end":5206.372,"text":"112年到114年 3年 你們的成果是如此所以必須還要再繼續加強115年度裡頭 你們希望能夠將這個提高檢驗量能到5萬件 是不是如此"},{"start":5207.785,"end":5232.379,"text":"是不是如此 是不是增加到5萬件今年度對 就115年度對 希望要有5萬件那所以本期要請教那你要具體怎麼分配因為你說5台嘛那你怎麼分配到各地的產區來確保不同地區這個農民他能夠實際上取得檢驗的這個資源你要怎麼做分配呢"},{"start":5232.898,"end":5257.271,"text":"我跟委員報告在這個產地源頭協助農民檢測大概分為幾個面向第一個面向就是在產地端那現有的因為我們有22縣市嘛那你只有5台車啊不是但是5台車是行動的我先講一下最基礎的限地的檢疫就是已經在地方像合作社廠我們現在大家都在做嘛然後有一些區檢中心也在做"},{"start":5258.011,"end":5277.999,"text":"對 然後透過這個行動的止捕儀的快篩車去做串接然後後端是在批發市場所以我們會建構一個所謂的所謂的這個農藥殘留的一個檢錯網絡那行動您所重視的這個行動止捕儀的這個車子就是去做一些鏈接啦那現在有五件"},{"start":5278.519,"end":5306.88,"text":"你現在回答到這裡就一個重點鏈結很重要因為我們看到你從112年到114年你是8萬件那你115年要5萬件等於你要兩倍半的量人所以本席才會提出你的行動車也沒有增加但是你這個網絡鏈結要怎麼去鏈怎麼可以去結盟起來你的整個的流程要怎麼去做本席認為有精進的空間"},{"start":5307.881,"end":5312.125,"text":"才能 絕對有齁所以你把進進的這個方案你們把它檢討好也給本席因為你關關一年要能夠兩倍半的量人本席希望他不是只有口號而是真正能夠落實而是能夠照顧到所有的食安安全讓賣的人也安心讓買的人也安心讓我們農民有榮耀這才是我們要的 對不對"},{"start":5332.505,"end":5351.51,"text":"所以你認為有精進的空間大概是一縣市至少要一台直輔儀的快車一縣市我們有22縣市所以我們現在準備在提我們的中長城公共建設裡面去做這樣的設施你把你的方案希望一縣市一台把這個方案以及要怎麼樣精進的管道"},{"start":5352.51,"end":5367.82,"text":"經濟的這個方式提交給本席我們希望政策出來就是要落實接下來本席要跟你討論農運民在年前的時候過年他都需要有現金小額錢所以你們在114年你首度的來舉辦農民紓困貸款那你也要在今年度當然一定要續辦一定要續辦你的總額是5億每一個人最高10萬元利率"},{"start":5381.209,"end":5395.55,"text":"是1.915%由原先你114年 一年內要完成要還款 但是還不了所以你現在從善如流這也是本席所說的我們務必一定要再基層"},{"start":5396.891,"end":5419.479,"text":"傾聽民意你一年要叫他還 他還不了所以你有傾聽民意這本許給你暫許那你的方式是延長為兩年來還這個錢這個是農漁民非常迫切需要的貴你啊 一定要這麼做所以同時你也透過農業的這個信保基金你說最高可以九成的信用保證來減半"},{"start":5421.44,"end":5441.646,"text":"寄收的保證手續費那降低申請 申貸的這個門檻但是我們也看到最近地球暖化的這個問題天災地變一大堆我們的農民真的不可確定性太強了在這樣的一個情況之下他很多的貸款他根本還沒有辦法"},{"start":5442.466,"end":5459.183,"text":"去清場所以本校請問也就是他們面對的這些資金的壓力小額資金但是在農民來看它是非常重要的一個資金要過年過不了年所以我們要怎麼樣協助他我們今年天災頻繁尤其農業的收入也是波動非常的大"},{"start":5465.169,"end":5477.638,"text":"不是我們的暗算的很多等到要收成像我們上一次的玉米明天要收成今天全部沒有了這個都是不可控的因素太多了所以你要怎麼樣將農民紓困貸款來制度化常態化而且你必須要滾動式檢討通本那麼多你一直只有10萬他怎麼過年請教部長"},{"start":5490.305,"end":5514.654,"text":"一個部分像委員這邊簡報所列的我們從去年開始就做我覺得獲得農民的好評那有一個重點您剛才說的就是要做滾動檢討的部分那我們今年在10月份其實在去年的10月份做了一些檢討所以我們現在的額度是10萬塊錢那後續如果需要的話我們還可以再做適度的提高那同樣的這一句話就對了部長因為現在通盤很嚴肅"},{"start":5519.356,"end":5541.136,"text":"所以包括我們的老農今天大家不分藍綠白一定要好好的讓我們的農民可以過活這是我們對農民的一個基本尊重所以這個滾動式檢討務必你每一年要去看每一年滾動式檢討我要謝謝你一定要每一年滾動式檢討這個金額而且每一年續辦是不是可以達得到"},{"start":5542.116,"end":5564.703,"text":"絕對我們覺得這個因為這個受到農民的好評我們每一年都會辦這第一點第二點就是說有關於貸款規定的部分包括利率包括額度額度申請的條件這個東西我們每一年都會去檢討滾動式檢討每一年要做最後一個議題我給你12月19號我們農業部11月份你推動了動物科學應用3R也就是取代"},{"start":5565.383,"end":5584.893,"text":"減量 精緻化那到目前為止10年你們是從120萬隻降到110萬那大概是9%本身認為這個數量是不美的而且是在你的政策10年如此是達不到你的3R雖然你找了一個理由說你不是用數量"},{"start":5585.974,"end":5604.05,"text":"來決定你的政策目標但是至少數字可以告訴我們你們現在做到的成效到底是如何所以本期希望這個部分必須要加油我們是要實際上的落實在全國動物科學應用的機構而不是只有口頭講一講不是只有書面的資料 請教部長"},{"start":5608.907,"end":5624.335,"text":"謝謝委員對這個實驗動物的一個關鍵特別是3R的部分那數字當然可以反映到某個程度的一個成果啦那這個部分從這個數據來看降幅似乎太低了啦對但是他們在前面10年才9%這10萬隻"},{"start":5626.516,"end":5643.624,"text":"他們是針對精緻化的部分就是說當你動物實驗的時候對於動物的這些保護相關的這些讓它不會很驚恐對這個部分的精緻化我們有做到做得非常好但是下一個目標就是讓它用替代的因為對"},{"start":5644.804,"end":5666.241,"text":"不夠啦 部長我們一個結論因為10年從120萬隻降到110萬隻你自己都認為這個酒吧是不夠的本級希望能夠真正的落實在這個機構裡頭那你們的方案要去精緻這個數量以及你們的這個落實程度3R"},{"start":5667.282,"end":5686.262,"text":"取代 減量以及精緻化這必須要去做啊這是政府的政策啊而且現在大家對於我們的這個動物寶貝大家都是我們的毛小孩大家是非常非常的重要跟重視啊對不對這本來就是要以人性化的一個管理嘛對不對"},{"start":5688.715,"end":5697.178,"text":"同意所以你把你的方案給本席好不好一起加油我們今天的方案謝謝楊瓊英委員質詢謝謝部長我們現在請張家俊委員質詢主席我想請部長請部長"},{"start":5717.124,"end":5730.674,"text":"部長早那本席想要直接切入今天的一個主題喔就是說台電去年9月有漲電價那除了一般電費以外你知道基本電費也有調漲嗎應該是有吧有吧那基本電費調漲多少部長知道嗎"},{"start":5737.799,"end":5741.303,"text":"我這個現在沒有 手邊沒有掌握這個訊息好 那沒關係本席告訴你每個月的這個抵度費喔本來是33.6元那一期呢就是大概是67.2元現在漲成每個月等於是100元"},{"start":5757.18,"end":5784.772,"text":"每一度是100元然後一起是200那等於是說漲了三倍這個抵度費漲了三倍那我想部長非常清楚務農就是看天吃飯有節氣有休耕所以對農民用電來說的確是真的有可能一年有幾個月有可能有幾個月完全沒有用電這個您同意嗎我基本上同意剛才委員所說的他的最低100塊但是他可以抵電費"},{"start":5787.09,"end":5810.61,"text":"抵什麼電費可扣你當月的電費啊他每戶最多的時收進了100塊但是這100塊可以抵他的電費對啊 但是他沒有用電啊所以他沒有用電他還是需要兩個月繳200元所以比過去 等於是過去的三倍那這個部分呢其實有很多農民現在在抗議"},{"start":5811.511,"end":5829.39,"text":"因為他們收到電單之後才發現從每期67元變成200元是原本的三倍部長您覺得這對農民有什麼影響呢這個我了解這個會等於說你沒用電的時候你又收了等於類似基本費的概念是他的基本費整個漲了多增加了一些支出啦"},{"start":5830.291,"end":5857.373,"text":"對那其實本來67塊農民都OK可是你突然變了一起要講200元這對農民是一個沉重的負擔了所以是不是可以請部長關心這件事情不過我想當然在農業的部分我們會來了解那農業的部分基本上我們的農業用電我們政府會來協助那這邊所提到的個特案的部分就是他沒用電是那沒用電在農業的部分"},{"start":5858.574,"end":5885.186,"text":"幾乎比較可能發生啦等於說除非他沒跟重是 就是基本費那部長我跟你說為了要抽絲剝繭這件事情我去做了很多研究我就去研究一下說他們陳情因為不是一個農民陳情很多農民都陳情我發現這可能是農業部可以幫忙協助補救是因為當初他們申請他們都是田嘛他們會請水電行來幫忙申請電"},{"start":5886.667,"end":5902.89,"text":"但是他們可能去申請用電的時候他們便宜形式沒有去申請農業用電他們就用一般用電但當初一般非營業用電的基本費跟農業用電是一樣所以都沒有人感覺"},{"start":5904.091,"end":5930.804,"text":"但是現在是不是就是農業用電有動漲但是一般用電沒有動漲所以他就被調漲了呢所以本席希望說是不是農業部可以徹查這件事情說假設他的確是農地農用而且呢符合農業用電的資格符合農業用電的資格是不是讓他趕快可以重新申請可能"},{"start":5931.664,"end":5958.336,"text":"怎麼樣整個重新申請的流程就是只要你真正從事農業所需的用電農業部一定會做協助然後這個部分也不是說某一年就截止了你隨時你有新增的部分都可以去申請你都可以重新來申請只要符合相關的規定那我所知道的部分就是農民不敢來申請就是他並不是實際的農用他有時候還拉到別的地方去所以他不敢來申請"},{"start":5959.67,"end":5987.874,"text":"我目前接到的全部都是農用全部都是田用就是你知道灌溉用就是它的水利設施農業用電絕對沒問題我們一定會協助如果說有這樣的話我想我會請相關的單位再去做一些就是裡面有一個等於是SOP就是說他要申請農業用電要怎麼做因為他們好 這個部分我想我們可以同意就是我們會把你在什麼條件之下是可以申請農業用電的我們會透過我們的系統再讓農民知道"},{"start":5988.314,"end":6011.964,"text":"好那這樣的話是不是也可以書面給本席讓我來協助大家宣導尤其部長就是說目前他們我也努力去查查這件事情就是說是不是要經過公所同意因為聽說等於是公所或者是縣市政府的農業單位要去現場查核嗎有需要嗎"},{"start":6014.625,"end":6043.295,"text":"我這個詳細的部分我想基本上他陸續申請一定是跟台電申請然後台電會去勘查他是不是接到是農業所需的對嘛 對那所以就是這整個申請的流程不只是你補薩薩我也補薩薩農民也補薩薩所以他不曉得說到底他是不是農業用店我用一個非常簡單的一個SOP的表格就是說你如果今天農民要申請農業用店第一個你至少要有農作"},{"start":6043.655,"end":6051.017,"text":"第二個接電的時候要從事農業的行為第三個要去哪裡申請然後申請完了以後台電就會把這個資料給我們我們就會撥錢給台電太好了因為現在有很多農民他明明是農用可是可能當初申請不曉得要申請農業用電他就用了一般用電那這個可能要協助他們變更然後如果假設"},{"start":6067.06,"end":6083.626,"text":"涉及鄉鎮公所或者是縣市政府也請農業部是不是跟他們溝通說這個一定要簡化流程因為有很多農民喔是因為看到這個小端他才知道說啊原來我農草保的不是農業用電所以這個謝謝部長喔那請儘速的是不是你會委託署長嗎還是誰要趕快儘快是不是給我們一個書面這樣子"},{"start":6094.09,"end":6121.103,"text":"我回去就會交代因為他不只是農業用電還有漁業用電是 農業用電 漁業用電所以這個部分我想我回去會有一個窗口然後把相關的資訊會給地方政府或是透過農會然後也會提供給委員這樣子是 好不好謝謝 謝謝部長謝謝張家俊委員的資訊謝謝 謝謝部長我們現在請謝一鋒委員資訊我們待會鄭天才委員資訊完我們就休息"},{"start":6131.567,"end":6135.714,"text":"好 謝謝主席我想要請我們農業部的陳部長我們請陳部長委員好"},{"start":6144.625,"end":6164.69,"text":"早安我想要請教一下就是我們農業科科技園區的這個管理條例裡面提到說要就是追溯至納管後跟施行前那目前我們會影響以及急需到法源支持的業者具體有多少家"},{"start":6167.338,"end":6193.92,"text":"如果不追溯的話是否會出現經營權的這個斷層我跟委員報告需要追溯目前是一家那時候不知道法什麼時候通過所以現在一家然後我們也的確發現了現在的一個問題就是原來的那個屏東科技園區社管條例都是農企業那我們把蘭花園區併入了以後"},{"start":6194.58,"end":6219.845,"text":"那相對的 蘭花園區的屬性都是獨立商號或是自然的人所以這個部分相對的對他們來講後面的繼承特別是在第一代的蘭園的蘭祖他年紀已經比較大了他一直想要透過繼承可是相對的現在的法是沒辦法讓他繼承的所以都一直卡在那邊對啊 我看到你後面那個謝主任他本來也要來我們溪州設一個園區是不是"},{"start":6221.502,"end":6238.722,"text":"也是要來彰化設一個園區還有就是說農產品的這個市場交易法裡面根據批發市場的用地農業部他要放寬就是租用私有土地但是以國營事業的土地為限那"},{"start":6239.062,"end":6267.794,"text":"可是這在地方的時候會面臨到一個問題喔就是當地方政府在簽建市場的時候如果周邊沒有國營事業土地因為你也不確定嘛然後有可能是舊地就是說可能是舊地呀然後擴建或等等的那如果沒有國營事業的土地的時候那還有沒有其他的配套的方式呢我想基本上喔第一個就是農業部會支持這樣子的一個"},{"start":6269.038,"end":6285.17,"text":"的處理是因為批發市場是我們農產品給消費給消費者的最後一里路的這個重要的節點那現在目前如果說當地有國有地那相對的我們會來協調然後我們在這次修法裡面是以國營事業的地為主"},{"start":6286.651,"end":6301.184,"text":"那私有地的時候因為私有地取消私有土地財產是要個人的協商沒有辦法說由政府出面去租用所以這個部分我們在條文是希望說盡量能夠配合我們"},{"start":6301.884,"end":6319.375,"text":"能夠掌握的國營事業的土地然後跟經濟部那邊做一個很好的協商他沒有的話就變成回到個人的部分有時候批發市場用地或者是就是這些批發市場都是既定的然後既有的那除非是牽涉到其他地方"},{"start":6319.975,"end":6343.762,"text":"做擴大才有可能就是說試用這個那如果就地要擴大的時候例如說我們我們彰化的就是田尾的花卉中心或等等的那這個當然就會涉及到就是說旁邊的私有地怎麼樣子一併的納用那這會不會符合就是現在在講的民間擴大投資"},{"start":6345.14,"end":6366.082,"text":"是不是政府現在也希望民間的資金擴大投資公共預算嗎我們現在的做法不是說私人私有土地我們就不處理我們只針對租用的部分租用的部分我們限定在國營事業的土地但是其他的就是"},{"start":6367.003,"end":6394.489,"text":"架构的部分或是徵收的部分我们必要的时候我们政府都会来协助好所以只有租用才是因为租的话因为纯私人土地很难有公权利介入但是国营私业我们可以透过协助但是私有土地的让售就是架构的部分跟徵收的部分就是另外这是分开来的对 还是会继续走还是会继续协助OK 好那我了解了谢谢"},{"start":6395.089,"end":6420.422,"text":"那還有就是現在就是面臨一個問題去年11月到12月青花菜你知道嗎收成很多啊那現在價格變低了這怎麼辦青花菜菜農有時候他還要整理菜然後還要需要就是說包裝等等的他覺得說這樣子上架他可能不服務成本嗎那"},{"start":6420.902,"end":6446.42,"text":"現在要怎麼處理要補貼嗎我跟委員報告青蛙菜的面積大概跟去年沒有 去年跟前年大概都差不多對但是一個非常重要的就是在去年的時候在11月 12月的時候因為它天氣比較暖了以後它的產期變成過度的集中所以在12月份特別是12月份的價格是有偏低的但是現在1月份的話根據我們的監控的價格是已經有拉上來了"},{"start":6447.34,"end":6470.096,"text":"拉多少但是我要跟委員報告就是後續我們會更細膩的去處理就是在源頭的部分他們有分批的種植然後如果說我們有一個比較好的種植登記然後如果量太多的時候我們會提前啟動可能的這些加工的凍除因為那我們現在來得及嗎現在呢"},{"start":6470.576,"end":6496.616,"text":"現在價格都不錯了現在價格都不錯 但是我是說可是還是沒有我們現在有在做加工還是持續在做你是不是應該現在也是持續的把一些已經收成的加工嘛 冷凍嘛對不對是不是做冷凍的相關的吧冷凍的部分我們現在持續在拉那其他的部分呢有一些人覺得說沒有辦法了你價格太低的部分你要進行你有考慮救急性的補貼嗎"},{"start":6497.711,"end":6514.622,"text":"沒有 因為現在量大概都回穩了所以我想我們後續會更細緻的去這些監控我覺得我們還有很多改進的空間這個部分特別是在拉到其他的國家去或是做動存提早啟動動存的這些協助"},{"start":6515.262,"end":6539.406,"text":"你有做動存嗎可是有一些人他那你們都是透過合作社對不對你們現在目前都是透過合作社但是你必須要考量到有一些小農他沒有加入合作社的是不是沒有我們是透過合作社去跟一些小農對接這個我們會來協助你們現在透過是合作社但是也有一些小農他沒有"},{"start":6539.966,"end":6563.68,"text":"你知道嗎他沒有進入合作社的體系裡面那這些怎麼辦所以我才說這些小農你要不要做相關性的救急的就是因為他沒有辦法進入這些就是救急的冷凍或者是就是能夠進入冷鏈的這樣子的一個凍存的階段那是不是給予他救急性的補貼我跟委員報告"},{"start":6564.68,"end":6587.86,"text":"就是總量的部分有一部分有契作我們把這個契作的收到加工的部分的話那市面上的量就少那這些個體戶本身的價格就會拉起來我們大概用這樣的方式操作啦那如果說有個體的一些需要協助的部分我們也會協助他跟這些合作社長做對接啦那外國的呢外國的要不要再外國的"},{"start":6588.4,"end":6606.87,"text":"外國我們現在沒有處理外國進來的我們不處理他只有在夏天他冬天沒有進來啊他冬天沒有進來是不是冬天沒有進來他是夏天進來那是不是未來因為我們現在凍存了他是夏天進來有一部分是做凍存然後再釋出的啦對啊我們現在凍存會超多嗎我們進口的現在沒有進來但是我們不會去處理進口的蔬菜"},{"start":6608.051,"end":6635.289,"text":"那如果动存的那个超多的时候是不是也要调节一下进口的量对我们进口量我们会跟进口商去沟通就是说当我的库存量我会把库存量去告诉进口业者其实国内已经有这么多了其实不需要从国外来进口好谢谢谢谢谢谢冯委员谢谢我们的部长我们请郑天才委员咨询"},{"start":6647.183,"end":6675.457,"text":"主席我们请部长还有财政部副署长我们请我们的农业部还有我们财政部代表委员好部长好今天这个农产品市场交易法要审查修正条文现行的条文第十条特别提到这个农民团体共同运销之极后尝"},{"start":6676.269,"end":6703.988,"text":"首吸用之土地是同农业用地适用第15条之规定其房屋税减税适用第17条的规定我们有委员提案要修正第10条改为增加第二项前项用地因专供农产品共同运销及后偿使用其房屋税及地价税减半征收"},{"start":6705.543,"end":6730.77,"text":"这个农业部的报告里面对于这个农民团体共同运销集合场土地适用第15条规定表示支持但是对于房屋税及地价税减半证说认为这是财政部的前者好我们看这个财政部的报告是这个这里面特别提到"},{"start":6731.943,"end":6760.413,"text":"工农产品 工农运销及后厂使用之土地 视同农业用地课征填付而填付至76年起停征原建议不宜征定地价税减半征收之规定我先请教这个财政部这个农业用地你这边写农业用地课征填付填付至76年起停征所以"},{"start":6761.638,"end":6791.037,"text":"既然農業用地是課徵填付那我們的條文加了這個地價稅減半也不影響它也不會適用嘛是不是這樣是 報告委員是所以也不會適用所以這個條文看怎麼修才會比較適當而不是說不宜真訂因為你訂了之後也不適用嘛"},{"start":6792.106,"end":6817.78,"text":"对不对是这样吗是好我们接下来所以农产品市场交易法第17条农产品批发市场之土地及房屋减半征收房屋税地价税或填付这是现行条文所以本席的建议我们在这个逐条讨论的时候也可以讨论"},{"start":6819.383,"end":6837.092,"text":"就說第二項的部分前項用地專攻農產品共同運銷及後廠使用者其房屋稅地價稅或填付適用第17條規定這樣的話財政部有沒有意見"},{"start":6839.777,"end":6863.966,"text":"是报告委员因为本来的农产品市场交易法的第十条也就是委员现在的第一项已经把所需用的土地明定为适同农业用地所以这就是刚报告的已经课征是属于课征填付的范围然后填付又在76年停征所以似乎就不用特别再去如果这样定的话也无妨吗"},{"start":6865.151,"end":6892.771,"text":"也不會影響到你們的延誒的那個政策應該就不用碰到地價稅的問題因為前面四筒農業用地就已經進入到課徵填付的範圍了所以似乎就是只要留房屋稅的部分就可以好 這個我們在主條的時候再討論好 那個就財政部就請回座部長 這個接下來還是要再跟你談這個"},{"start":6897.365,"end":6915.364,"text":"花蓮光復香這個佛祖街這裡的這些當然我這個照片是一個禮拜前的照片啦不曉得最近有沒有改變還是維持這樣你們有把它清掉了嗎這些土石 砂石"},{"start":6916.63,"end":6944.695,"text":"相對的如果是在農田上面的部分我們現在正在有一些是在50公分以下的已經開始重新種植了那有一些在50公分以上的他會做整體的一個規劃如果他是落在整體的規劃區的話那線上面的東西就不會先動他了大概是這個方式農水署有沒有人來這樣我來跟部長回顧一下"},{"start":6945.973,"end":6975.351,"text":"上次我也执行过你们上次的答复是说因为佛祖接这一代的这些农田有打算有两个方向其中一个方向就是征收你知道吗有两个方向你们现在在之前调查应该调查都差不多了吧"},{"start":6976.404,"end":6994.444,"text":"我跟委員報告就基本上農田被淹沒大概774公頃左右然後分兩個部分一個部分是靠近靠近河道他有一個緩希望有個緩衝區會被徵收然後那個是水利署對水利署負責沒有我現在是談農業部分"},{"start":6995.845,"end":7022.374,"text":"對 然後農業部過來的時候就是因為它那邊也是農田啊只是它會被水利署會去徵收嘛對 然後過來的話有一部分的區位可能會變成造林的部分因為它的土的 掩蓋的面積比較厚那再過來如果它是50公分以下的我們就會進行所謂的耕作的一個輔導部長 我們現在都談50公分以上的啦"},{"start":7023.58,"end":7047.658,"text":"我们现在谈了对 50公分以上我们现在有一部分会被征收那现在要不要征收那个线还没有画出来我们也正在沟通因为也要当地的居民来同意对这样 不管要不要征收你要征收也必须把这个土移走不可能一直留在那边"},{"start":7049.762,"end":7067.152,"text":"這個我只是拍了一部分的他就在房子的旁邊離房子非常近所以對屋主來講屋主來講這房子然後他就擔心又下豪雨"},{"start":7068.493,"end":7087.696,"text":"对不对然后他的这是他的土地啊旁边是通常房子旁边就是他的农田嘛他的农田又就一直堆这个那么高的沙然后他又不能什么都不能用又担心又被影响所以这个部分"},{"start":7090.384,"end":7107.045,"text":"現在已經從923、10、11、12要邁入第四個月了一直維持這樣也不是很好看所以這個部分請農業部長再請相關人員去了解"},{"start":7108.813,"end":7125.478,"text":"我想我會請同仁去了解但是原則上如果土太厚的話你現在處理上面的沙丘是沒有意義的好 謝謝謝謝鄭天才委員資訊 謝謝部長我們現在開始休息五分鐘 謝謝"},{"start":7474.924,"end":7494.037,"text":"我們現在請 開始開會 我們請邱志偉委員質詢好 謝謝主委 是不是請農業部陳部長 漁業署王署長我們請農業部陳部長 還有我們漁業署署長 謝謝這個陳部長 這個"},{"start":7503.562,"end":7522.879,"text":"史無前例啊 這個立法院今年度的中央政府總預算都還沒覆違啊這個當然會影響很大那不審 新興計畫就沒有辦法動之 對不對那很多的這個政策就沒有辦法推動我想請教部長就是說 針對總預算不審"},{"start":7525.787,"end":7550.521,"text":"會影響到農業部相關的預算它規模到什麼程度我跟委員報告我們內部經過計算以後大概總共的預算大概有將近90億是不能動之的分兩個區塊一個區塊是新興的計畫是完全不能動的大概是16點多億那另外一個是延續性計畫但是因為我們增加了很多項目"},{"start":7551.742,"end":7570.599,"text":"增加的不能动之你只能沿用增加的部分大概有70亿所以两个加起来74亿加起来大概有90亿新型计划不是不能动之要经过立法院同意如果假设真的完全都不审那你们针对新型计划要提到立法院"},{"start":7571.6,"end":7586.047,"text":"請立法院同意有沒有這種想法我想我們最大的根本還是希望總預算能夠進到副委副委來來討論嘛那如果對農業部分的經費有任何疑義我們都願意跟委員做溝通跟協商"},{"start":7587.107,"end":7612.073,"text":"那總預算過才會包括新興的部新興的部分跟延續的部分一併來處理這個主要是要照顧農漁民對發展農漁業農漁民農漁業是相對在產業結構裡面相對比較弱勢需要政府更多的協助對不對特別請王署長我想請教如果這個總預算不省影響了漁業署的預算我們對第二類漁港的建設的補助"},{"start":7612.873,"end":7629.888,"text":"以及對養殖儀業的這個補助的影響大概規模有多大跟委員報告現在我們新興的部分特別是養殖的生產端管理像一些供排水系統或是養殖區生產道路的一些建設都會受到影響"},{"start":7630.569,"end":7654.296,"text":"那這個部分大概有一兩億的預算那我的漁港的部分因為漁港部分現在在配合財化法的修正的部分因為二類漁港的部分屬於這個地方政府的主管權責那一個部分在我們原來預算編列的時候就已經配合財化法的修正已經調成地方的這種一般性的補助款 是"},{"start":7655.117,"end":7667.214,"text":"那如果非二類漁港比方說在我的選區你也知道你常常去永安 彌陀 紫關這個興達港這些這個漁港要怎麼讓它現代化"},{"start":7668.611,"end":7697.214,"text":"設施的這個提升漁港建設的這個投入是會影響委員雖然說我們現在配合財化法的修正一些協助地方政府建設二類漁港的經費已經切到地方政府去了但是如果說地方政府確實因為預算的一個短缺需要延提比較大型的這種中長城計畫那只要地方政府延提上來我們署裡面會協助我有做會審"},{"start":7698.355,"end":7712.211,"text":"对对对针对我的选区包括这个紫关 弥陀 永安跟这个新大港这些都是老旧的渔港需要现代化渔民作业安全或者是这个渔产交易环境的改善"},{"start":7714.093,"end":7727.248,"text":"這個如果提這個專案計畫呢是就是提專案計畫我們絕對會來支持協助像行政院來爭取比較有高雄市政府提出一個專案計畫專案計畫但你要抱怨嘛"},{"start":7728.069,"end":7748.908,"text":"包園如果同意的話我跟委員報告一下就是在整個經費的運用上面來講雖然說二類漁港是地方政府但是地方政府如果裁員可能分配上面可能不夠的時候他可以提專案您說的專案計畫專案計畫就是中長城公共建設那中長城公共建設經過國會審定行政院核可以後這個有沒有在總預算的範圍裡面這個目前"},{"start":7751.87,"end":7767.942,"text":"已經有切到地方的話我的意思是說如果高雄市政府提出這個離港建設專案計畫比方說他提出20億這20億有沒有包括在農業部的年度預算也包括在裡面後續如果行政院中長城計畫審議通過了還是編在我農業部啊"},{"start":7771.084,"end":7789.913,"text":"就是由中央補助地方的經費額度裡面去那也沒那麼快最快也要到如果說今年入體啦那一定是列入民營度預算嘛我們大概每一年的中南農公共建設依規定大概是在2月底然後開始審最慢是5月底之前要提送所以這個在查法法的限制之下這也是一個解決的方案對"},{"start":7791.969,"end":7814.604,"text":"我會覺得這個全盤把整個高雄市的漁港建設就透過專案計畫來這個會比較一勞永逸我跟委員報告雖然說我們有一些是切到地方去但是它的建設如果是對整個的產業的影響的話那中央的政府會有相關的另外的一個協助大概會這樣的方式第二問題請教一下部長就是這個"},{"start":7815.624,"end":7842.532,"text":"台美關稅的談判還沒有最後的一個這個最後的結論出來嘛但是應該談得差不多的我是比較關心這個農業的部分農業的部分這個之前大家討論關注大概就是加強對美國的採購嘛而且不是由政府編的運算去採購是由民間這個都由民間的部分有沒有牽涉到"},{"start":7843.973,"end":7855.632,"text":"比較敏感的部分比方說市場開放我想所謂的市場開放基本上就是所說的關稅的部分那關稅是一定會在談判裡面會去觸及的"},{"start":7857.932,"end":7874.159,"text":"但是我們會堅持的就是所有的品項裡面它對台灣的農民是衝擊是最小的然後這種市場開放是對於我們成本是有幫助的那另外一類是什麼我們本來就有開放了"},{"start":7874.659,"end":7894.115,"text":"然後如果說讓美國的關稅比較低的時候他只是在競爭國之間輸入的競爭國之間去做互相的取代如果從國家利益角度來看美國一定從這個關稅的談判中是讓美國的國家利益最大化對這個有時候國家利益之間是零和的"},{"start":7894.943,"end":7912.248,"text":"他的國家利益最大化就是我們國家利益可能會受到影響那我們就是讓我們的農業的影響是降到最低我們是用這種角度去談所以你有把握你有信心如果他的要求不要說對市場開放這個部分你有這個信心可以因應"},{"start":7913.523,"end":7939.731,"text":"確保這個農民的生計或者是農業產業不會受到太大的衝擊我跟委員報告我們大概分三類一類就是開放以後是對完全對我們沒有影響反而是有幫助的像黃曉玉的部分嘛然後第二類的部分就是我們那個我了解 對比較說影響是大一些的確可能會有一些有必須某個程度的影響那美國程度的影響的話我們就會用產業支持的方案去協助他"},{"start":7940.332,"end":7943.005,"text":"這些方案出來了嗎我們都已經準備好了好 第三類"},{"start":7944.284,"end":7969.702,"text":"你說還有第三種對 都已經準備好了你說第一類就是黃小玉對第二類就是說我開放之後會對產業衝擊你會有產業支持方案對那還有其他的嗎大概我們分三類另外一類是競爭對手國輸入國彼此之間的競爭去取代它對台灣的整個市場的交易也不會有影響那第三類才會有某個程度的影響那某個程度的影響我們就有產業支持方案去協助"},{"start":7970.422,"end":7991.242,"text":"所以你們有相關的因應方案可以克服這些關稅的衝擊對 農糧的漁業的畜牧的我們每一個品項都做了這樣的一個評估最終方案如果攤出來對台灣的農業不是造成太大影響我們認為其實台灣的農業沒有想像那麼脆弱我們有沒有韌性我們絕對有那個韌性"},{"start":7993.161,"end":8008.131,"text":"沒有那麼脆弱啦所以如果這個出來大家跟大家的期待有很大的落差的時候要怎麼樣去跟這個農運民做說服或者去跟農運民去說明或者討論"},{"start":8009.927,"end":8031.449,"text":"對 所以我們現在其實我很擔心因為這個最後的文本還沒出來如果跟我們的期待有落差的時候你們應該趕快跟受到影響的農業民去做溝通 做說明以及相關的支持方案要很明確跟大家知道我想我們如果公開了以後我想我們第一時間就會提出相關的一個完整的方案我們都已經準備好"},{"start":8032.93,"end":8056.249,"text":"等到一旦公布了以後我想我們第一時間就會跟各地的相關的利害關係的農民去做一個說明這個我們一定會做到所以你們有信心把農業育民顧好把農業產業顧好我個人是有信心因為台灣的農業沒有那麼脆弱而且台灣農業應該有他的競爭力漁業也是也是好謝謝謝謝邱志偉委員謝謝部長我們現在請呂玉玲委員資訊"},{"start":8072.299,"end":8073.442,"text":"謝謝主席 請陳部長我們請陳部長"},{"start":8082.349,"end":8108.387,"text":"部长你刚刚说我们的农业不会这么脆弱应该很有韧性所以台湾的整个农业的韧性也要靠我们部长来继续努力那尤其是我们要让我们年轻人能够从农的这个行列我们也导入了很多包括是数位的跟我们的AI的模式那尤其要提升的就是我们整个农产品品质跟它的那个产能这才是最重要的"},{"start":8108.727,"end":8129.367,"text":"而且还要透过我们外销市场来增加我们整个农业产品的收益这还是最重要的在2019年的时候陈吉仲那时候是主委他就说了希望我们的外销能够突破60亿的美元但是我们看到这个数据"},{"start":8130.663,"end":8143.959,"text":"每年一直下降下降到2024年的話剩下49億到今年2025年的11月剩下41億那現在這個整個外銷的市場上是碰到了什麼瓶頸的問題呢"},{"start":8145.85,"end":8164.141,"text":"我想第一個部分就是在這兩年它的整個外銷產值降低有一個最大的原因就是其實您看今年的三今年從旦那斯颱風一連串的這些天災還有去年的三個颱風那相對的我們的外銷通常是當我們的產地相對的"},{"start":8166.281,"end":8187.207,"text":"這個產 供應量穩定的時候我們才有機會去外銷那因為這兩年它本身國內的需求是因為總體量變少了所以相對的外銷就會導致外銷的數量沒有辦法再持續的增加但是我們針對比較新興的主要的這些市場我們還是持續的去努力的去開拓"},{"start":8188.362,"end":8207.912,"text":"所以部長我們看到整個外銷市場雖然說這個金額一直下降你說是因為內需的關係所以說沒有辦法去外銷這個是你的說辭因為天然災害的關係因為颱風影響很多產品但是我們外銷市場現在目前看起來我們大概都知道美國跟日本比較多"},{"start":8209.547,"end":8232.624,"text":"我想还有澳洲纽西兰加拿大对还有新南向对新南向大概占我们外销农产品的市场25%而已对不对差不多差不多这个那为什么会新南向的话只有占25%是因为我们地区的气候环境还是我们同质性很高所以我们会竞争比较大合作比较少"},{"start":8233.084,"end":8247.082,"text":"我跟委員報告就是新南向的部分要看特定的品項因為本身的氣候環境相對的類似然後本身的品種那個產品之間有它的替代性所以它沒有辦法說"},{"start":8248.303,"end":8264.34,"text":"全力的一直往東南新南向的地方走所以我們希望說拉到其他的國家像比較北部的比較溫帶的像日本日本韓國的部分或者是美洲的加拿大那邊還有南半球的澳洲紐西蘭的部分來開拓"},{"start":8265.841,"end":8289.024,"text":"其实如果说是同时性大的话那我们就必须要有一些差异化的产品我们就可以行销到东南亚新南西亚对你要找有差异性的我们要有自己的规划要有重新去检视的方式是好不好是还有刚刚你刚才讲到说很多国家你是讲说外销的其他澳洲哪里哪里你都没有提到欧洲欧盟国家"},{"start":8290.045,"end":8310.479,"text":"是不是因為距離比較遙遠運輸的問題所以我們要突破這個外銷的瓶頸除了我們農產品不容易保存那我們用冷鏈的方式或者是我們儲存運輸的方式這些都是我們趕快建制好來的話就可以往歐盟國家去發展是不是我跟委員報告 特別是"},{"start":8311.279,"end":8332.098,"text":"在欧盟的部分过往都是花费比较多然后现在我们的水果像我们很高兴就是说番石榴番石榴跟芒果他也可以去外销但是一旦开放因为简易的条件的关系开放了以后可能要两年到三年才能够进到他的市场的正常的通路系统"},{"start":8332.799,"end":8350.929,"text":"所以像番石流現在可以了那我們現在要積極建立跟對方的通路系統做對接我們不希望說純粹靠貿易商有沒有零單的去輸出可是部長台灣比較有代表性的農產品是鳳梨那為什麼鳳梨不能運銷過去"},{"start":8352.029,"end":8377.478,"text":"因為台灣的鳳梨基本上它的風味非常好但是它有一個比較脆弱的就是它的果皮不適合比較長期的長程的運輸所以我們一方面我們也開發了一些比較適合長程運輸的這些像芒果鳳梨它比較好的部分可以去做主打那這個部分所以以鳳梨來講我們基本上還是用鄰近的以日本的市場為主的"},{"start":8378.098,"end":8386.238,"text":"的一個策略因為台灣是個果蠅的疫區所以我們對於這個防疫跟檢疫方面的話我們要怎麼再加強"},{"start":8387.799,"end":8415.192,"text":"我想果蠅的部分那基本上有一些有一些国家像我记得像纽西兰的部分像澳洲的部分它有一些是用切那个凤梨头的方式去运输嘛所以真的简易的部分我们会更精进的在国内的是适合不同的国家外销去做这些可以用蒸热跟冷藏的方式对用冷藏的方式可以出还有节切的部分像凤梨"},{"start":8416.491,"end":8443.571,"text":"我跟委員報告日本以日本市場他們越來越喜歡我們節切的鳳梨節切好的那節切好的部分他就避開了很多的簡易的一個條件所以很多方法都可以做所以歐盟國家我們不要放棄好不好我們絕對不會放棄調整一下我們整個出口的策略任何有機會的國家我們都不會放棄還有部長請教你的就是說我們外銷的話我們有些產品"},{"start":8444.392,"end":8462.323,"text":"我们的农产品我们是有它的那个品种权植物的品种权那这植物的品种权的话很多在台湾也好或者是各个国家那他们的有几项有产品的品种权那个品种权非常多那基本上"},{"start":8463.757,"end":8487.575,"text":"有爭取到的因為我們必須保留我們的產品的品種權我們國內的現在有302項我們國內的302項取得的國外呢國外的部分有應該是有241項是蝴蝶藍的藍花的部分那水果部分有沒有水果的芒果芒果最主要是芒果的部分"},{"start":8489.845,"end":8505.51,"text":"部長會這樣子詢問你的話最重要是我們要保障農民的權益那有些我們不管是花卉也好水果也好到國外去之後的話我們的品種被人家培育去量產的話對我們的競爭是很大的壓力是不是所以那申請這個品種權的時候可能"},{"start":8507.991,"end":8522.163,"text":"費用會很昂貴程序要走得很遠很久的時間所以我們希望農業部可以協助我們的農民來爭取來申請我們的這個品種權好不好我跟你講我們一直都有在協助就是過往是特別是花卉比較多"},{"start":8522.924,"end":8538.345,"text":"那其他的農產品的話如果說是公部門因為大部分都是公部門育種出來的然後我們會在目標市場國去取得品種權然後相對的如果私人品種的話如果他願意到國外去做品種權申請的話我們也很樂意來協助"},{"start":8539.426,"end":8554.571,"text":"主動協助啦對我們會我們會我們一直有一個團隊保障農民的他們的產品的權利到國外被人家去仿造之後的話被人家培育完成之後我們的競爭力就會下降我們的外銷數字就會越來越好看好不好部長加油謝謝謝謝李玉玲委員資訊謝謝部長我們現在請蘇清泉委員資訊"},{"start":8570.371,"end":8574.838,"text":"謝謝主席我請陳部長還有月屬署長還有農糧署署長我們的農糧署署長柏中你好我先跟你感謝"},{"start":8584.488,"end":8610.325,"text":"因為我們平壤那邊 像最近車城的農會超市前一陣子我們到現場去現勘 我有看到他們的反應 他們的冷凍骨骼都骨壞了對嘛還有我們南區文書的人去 很好啦我最早做過的事很快 今天有看到那個公文你們有幫忙嗎 幫忙多少幫忙多少"},{"start":8613.763,"end":8634.673,"text":"三百多萬三百多萬 對 這樣有錢 感謝我常常跟部長合謀 跟署長合謀部長說我都在消遣 不會 我自己簽訂謝謝委員來 我要問第一次比較嚴重的這兩天天氣溫度很低我今天在氣溫當天出來 十二度如果在氣溫空曠 你看像這樣風這樣沙"},{"start":8643.66,"end":8670.337,"text":"應該10度以下啦啊 我們漁業暑假齁再去我問一下 那個窩魚的酒瓣的這個 尤其是我們煮食齁 他們的沙發魚的更加嚴重啊這要怎麼處理 要怎麼預防我跟委員報告齁 就是說像我們的養殖漁業的部分喔特別像虱目魚有沒有它的低溫超過10度以下 連續一段時間我們就有所謂的那個天然災害的啟動啦"},{"start":8671.618,"end":8687.874,"text":"它不用去現看用天氣的參數然後我們觀察其實在屏東地區它白天溫度還是會回溫那晚上的溫度雖然說偶爾會降到10度C以下但是因為像虱目魚的話它要連續10度C以下一段時間才會凍傷"},{"start":8689.676,"end":8702.03,"text":"所以它偶而會下降但是它還是在10度12到13度左右它影響就不會那麼大我們會比較密切的去監控如果說遇到天然災害需要啟動我們會馬上來啟動對了 我現在想問你現在那大約2000公頃"},{"start":8708.433,"end":8714.875,"text":"幫寮 家當 到台我看酒吧的事 我覺得很傷心那天看 這麼大尾的酒吧也凍死了他現在說都不吃東西不吃東西 又跟兩個人說台灣跟兩個人的病毒就聰明了還有我讀義豐 還是說水家當 高青 我讀沒有"},{"start":8730.521,"end":8754.018,"text":"說到這 屏東的部分大面積的養殖 他們的殼都更深所以遇到寒流的時候 那個魚兒會躲到那個池底就比較能夠抗寒所以這個部分 我也 漁業署也持續的跟屏東的地區如果說他願意做魚溫的這些改善的時候那我相信在我們能力範圍之內 我們也會來協助啦"},{"start":8754.318,"end":8767.734,"text":"就是說他如果要叫我更親密 你們可以幫忙我們可以來協助 可以來幫忙尾巴有沒有好 尾巴有沒有好嘛有擋風的部分啦擋風的部分啦所以 除了這樣移瓜 也沒什麼好的"},{"start":8771.28,"end":8789.25,"text":"就是引入新的海水去讓它升溫然後微網讓它豐有沒有那豐也是靠你豐然後池底加深那這幾個部分如果說漁民特別是挖池底需要一些建設有沒有 工程的部分那我相信農業部在經費許可一定會來協助好"},{"start":8790.014,"end":8815.367,"text":"那最後一個就是你如果要萬一需要補充你也是用一般的補充 或是說有養殖認證的跟沒有的 步驟不一樣嘛應該是要有養殖登記 養登的才有養登我們屏東關就很慢的嘛 現在幾%每個漁民每天就在那裡靠腰 政府到底是不是在讓他們入伏我看公司70% 70%"},{"start":8817.355,"end":8818.378,"text":"80% 我想報告現在我也是跟地方政府在說 因為"},{"start":8823.856,"end":8846.852,"text":"養燈的部分在屏東他是要跟水權要合在一起那我現在是主張把水權另外去處理啦那在其他的縣市他不跟水權在一起的時候他養燈的比例就比較高啦因為屏東縣政府因為地層下限的關係他一直跟水權要取得合法的水權這我們在溝通啦"},{"start":8848.271,"end":8851.635,"text":"沒有啦 你要 不可以這樣想 只有50幾%而已嘛 還是40幾%對啦 你這樣不行 如果遇到風太大 遇到像這個寒海你這樣給漁民血便有過啦 不對"},{"start":8863.381,"end":8882.808,"text":"我再來想想有沒有辦法因為養燈的部分是地方政府規定的嘛那我們在天然災救助看可不可以避開除了養燈以外我們可不可以設計另外一種方式啦我們再來研究看看有沒有辦法去脫鉤啦好 謝謝謝謝蘇青選委主席謝謝謝謝部長我們請"},{"start":8892.273,"end":8920.738,"text":"我們請鍾嘉斌委員質詢主席在場委員先進列席的政務司長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請我們陳部長跟薰木斯理事長我們請陳部長好 部長好 市長好"},{"start":8921.88,"end":8950.005,"text":"部長到農業部擔任次長跟部長大多久了多久我108年3月那就當次長6年了嘛7年了我記得在你當次長的時候你有處理什麼議題是讓你印象深刻的那時候你還在當次長我這樣直接講好了我那時候對你印象深刻的就是之前的陳部長在推動要農藥減量"},{"start":8952.048,"end":8964.985,"text":"那时候你在次长的时候你协助了我们的实名制对不对对那有没有受到当时一开始很大的不适应甚至反弹甚至压力有没有那时候非常大的压力是来自于哪里"},{"start":8966.392,"end":8990.49,"text":"來自於哪一個地方來自於農藥行農藥行本身他認為你用實名制登記的時候會讓他有一些藥有沒有沒辦法賣這個我們就不提農民本來也不太適應對農民一開始覺得說太麻煩了後來連肥料都透過實名制解決了供銷的問題後來這個制度是證明是有幫助的對農民現在也接受了"},{"start":8991.491,"end":9005.653,"text":"對現在農民農藥實名制肥料實名制都可以接受農藥行他也不再反彈了嗎對90%多都已經接到POS系統那對農藥廠來講這也沒有影響到他們的銷售完全沒有影響好那整體來講這看起來我們台灣的農藥"},{"start":9006.914,"end":9027.264,"text":"農業用藥有沒有減一些下我們現在的目前農藥10年風險減半的部分我們預計在117年可以達到52%風險減半包括用量也減少對 劇毒農藥退場很好那麼這就是造成我們台灣的環境跟農民的健康的保障是好 那我現在再請教一下農民用完的農藥罐農藥容器怎麼處理"},{"start":9029.775,"end":9053.254,"text":"有回收嗎我們環境部有一個資源的回收的一個辦法所以我所知道的是農藥廠比照其他的容器業者他有繳個基金那這個基金再去支持回收業者回收那請教一下你在農村外面看到的這些丟棄的飲料瓶你分得出是飲料還是農藥嗎"},{"start":9054.998,"end":9076.613,"text":"看外觀應該看得出來看得出來 很好所以我要告訴你其實在實荒的人的過程當中他們不太想去碰農藥瓶因為回收場不太想收因為農藥瓶裡面可能有氣味而且你知道嗎 環境部規定同樣是塑膠容器農藥瓶的部分要格外的處理它也不能夠壓縮那很佔空間 還會有氣味你知道這個部分嗎"},{"start":9077.193,"end":9095.308,"text":"了解他要適度的要三次的沖洗對所以說目前你知道目前環境部本來指定的專一全台灣就一家廢氣農藥瓶容器的處理廠他已經沒有辦法做了這段時間是用焚燒的方式嘛現在環境部還在找一家來做嘛你覺得怎麼樣解決這個問題減少環境的破壞"},{"start":9099,"end":9118.297,"text":"我覺得我們可能接下來我想這個議題我想會跟環境部去處理很好 我來支持你而且我也提出了一個過去最早我們在回收這些容器 廢容器最早的寶特瓶你知道有壓瓶精吧對你知道以前我們小時候買米酒 啤酒一支可以退一支嘛對你知道現在一支可以退多少嗎"},{"start":9119.363,"end":9148.612,"text":"米酒啊 一支退市兩口 五口 四口那你有沒有看到人家啤酒瓶亂丟嗎沒有 因為都被回收了嘛所以請你往這個方向來思考一下好不好那另外一個很小的事因為時間到了那拜託你指示一下徐牧師我們這個黑豬的退場或者規模轉黑豬轉化退場或者規模的縮減那個母豬的部分的退場的機制有沒有演繹出來了簡單講就好我們應該有演繹吧"},{"start":9149.372,"end":9166.507,"text":"我們應該有原意可不可以來找個時間來跟我報告一下因為我現在在1月中可以完成因為我記得那個委員特別提到母豬本身有沒有它跟肉豬是不一樣的所以我那時候就有一個規劃針對這個母豬的這些退場的部分而且我記得我也抱怨了啦"},{"start":9167.268,"end":9187.463,"text":"是 不好意思我用抱怨的方式好了我們抱怨才有經費你們是抱行政院 我以為你說我在抱怨不是 不是抱行政院因為它需要一些經費1月中可以啟動嗎應該可以加油一下好不好我們屏東的農民非常需要農藥廢棄容器的部分在找時間請次長或者我們的房間署是哪個部門負責的"},{"start":9188.854,"end":9213.209,"text":"農藥廢棄農藥是房間署房間署嗎請他們一起來好不好謝謝部長謝謝中加兵委員的質詢謝謝部長謝謝我們請羅明財羅明財羅明財委員不在林倩琦林倩琦林倩琦委員不在林楚瑩林楚瑩林楚瑩委員不在賴世寶賴世寶賴世寶委員不在那我們林黛華是提書面質詢那陳瑩委員"},{"start":9231.412,"end":9235.314,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩請陳部長我們請陳部長部長好 我們來先看一張照片"},{"start":9250.045,"end":9270.76,"text":"這張照片不曉得部長還有沒有印象就是在去年這個楊柳颱風重創台東的農業那本席和部長還有我們卓院長以及莊瑞雄委員到現場去勘栽時的照片那當時受創的不只是農產品而已就連這個農產品的運銷集貨廠也損失慘重而且現場是滿目倉儀"},{"start":9277.585,"end":9279.928,"text":"這個農民團體它是真的很慘因為它的運銷集貨廠還沒有開始營運就遇到颱風就先慘賠了好幾百萬"},{"start":9294.31,"end":9311.306,"text":"我想這樣的情形呢我相信它不是空前也不會是絕後所以因為我特別我的今天這個提案內容其實起源也是有遇到這樣子的案例那當事人也有跟我澄清"},{"start":9312.847,"end":9337.998,"text":"這個農民團體的經營農產品運銷集貨廠本來其實就會遇到很多的困難所以政府都應該要盡可能來協助他們過去的法令會強調說希望農產品運銷集貨廠使用公有土地目的是希望農產品的集貨廠可以比較穩定的經營"},{"start":9339.699,"end":9359.519,"text":"其實現在的這個公有土地的取得其實也是困難重重所以有心經營這個集貨廠的農民團體不論他是用這個公有土地或者私有土地農糧署仍然都會給予相當多的協助不會因為這個土地到底是公有或者私有這樣子沒有錯吧"},{"start":9360.745,"end":9387.945,"text":"好 那我提案修正的这个农产品市场交易法第十条是从这个民国七十年制定之后呢就不曾再修订过了那我的这个提案内容呢是跟这个农粮署讨论很多次的结果希望未来不论农产品运销集货场地的用地不管它是公有或者私有都可以享有政府税制上的优惠那我要请教部长就是不知道您的看法如何"},{"start":9388.707,"end":9417.384,"text":"我想第一個基本上我們同意就是說只要是共同運銷的場所它都是協助我們把農產品進到消費市場的最後一里路所以後續的這些適容它的農地它地面適容農地所以它的房屋稅房屋稅是可以減半但是地價稅的部分應該也可以減半但是剛才好像財政部有特別提到其實地價稅本來就可以"},{"start":9418.57,"end":9446.182,"text":"就是免地價稅的嘛不過看起來我們討論很久在這個案例它並沒有它沒有辦法被解決啊沒有所以我們這次修法就可以處理了就把它處理了就把它全處理了好 謝謝那好這個時間也到了我快速問一下部長你知道這個原住民的平均餘命是多少嗎應該是82年多歲吧"},{"start":9446.813,"end":9474.74,"text":"我想我不知道是你的幕僚给你提供82.7我们的原住民平均我们没有那么长寿我们平均余命是55没有我讲82.7是我们是针对从事农业的原住民他0老农今天我的问题是原住民的平均余命如果说整体的平均余命我大概没有掌握而且部长你讲的应该是这个平均死亡年龄"},{"start":9476.707,"end":9495.789,"text":"不是平均余命这个部分这几个数字我想部长应该要先就是也是需要先弄清楚抱歉我更正一下原住民的平均余命不是55我是说我们的这个老人的定义在原住民那边会被定为55岁那原住民的平均"},{"start":9496.75,"end":9511.848,"text":"余命也没有到那么高那这个其实我们努力了很多年它都有将近十岁的差距虽然近年有缩短一点点但是呢它还是有将近十岁的差距这个部分"},{"start":9513.25,"end":9533.349,"text":"我想這個要請你們幕僚跟部長重新做一下功課那因為我要強調就是說平均死亡年齡跟平均餘命是完全不一樣的統計數據而且這個平均餘命沒有針對農民的統計因為有一些媒體引用部長備詢的時候說的內容所以我覺得有必要在這邊跟部長"},{"start":9534.409,"end":9563.369,"text":"詳細說明因為這個會影響到我們這個老農今天就是說上次上次我希望就是說老農今天針對原住民的年齡要下修到55歲的時候部長的回答跟實際上是落差是很大的所以就算要比較這個平均死亡年齡也應該以原住民的農民的平均死亡年齡跟全體的農民的平均死亡年齡來做比較所以這個部分我希望部長你們重新再"},{"start":9564.277,"end":9564.297,"text":"去"},{"start":9565.979,"end":9593.832,"text":"了解一下實際的這個數據是怎麼樣不能說拿這個原住民的農民的平均死亡年齡的數據跟全體國民的平均餘命來做比較這樣的基礎是完全不對的那這個也是我們原住民的全體國人的這個平均餘命的差距也是一個長期沒有辦法改善的問題所以有關這個老農今天原住民下修年齡規定的提案也還是請部長可以重新來評估來支持"},{"start":9594.955,"end":9613.083,"text":"我想謝謝委員提供這樣的一個資訊那我想我們當初在考慮就是農的應該跟農的比那我上次是82.7是跟80.7跟全體在比那你這邊提供的資料我想我們後面會去會去精算一下如果說從農業的部分"},{"start":9613.723,"end":9631.542,"text":"他86.5跟82.7他至少差了大概將近大概大概是3.8嘛3.8歲那我們怎麼樣去設計他是不是可以去降低老農津貼的勤領的年齡啦我覺得這個必須要去做一個精算跟討論"},{"start":9633.235,"end":9647.942,"text":"對 再麻煩你們再重新研議好 謝謝謝謝陳委員的資訊謝謝 謝謝部長我想是不是那個我們賴委員因為我們待會還有協商就對三分鐘 把握時間部長 對謝謝主席就請那個工業部的陳部長"},{"start":9658.675,"end":9686.272,"text":"委員好非常感謝主席因為剛跳過去讓我又可以回來非常感謝我想我關心的就是台美的關稅談判外界一直關心美國是不是要求我們農產品全面的零關稅那麼美國農產品全面進來有沒有這件事情不過我想相關的這些談判過程中我們都有"},{"start":9687.554,"end":9694.389,"text":"觸及到所謂的市場開放那市場開放並沒有說百分之百全部零關稅這件事情是"},{"start":9696.102,"end":9716.216,"text":"現在我把它整理了一下這也是很多的專家整理了其實我們全部讓美國的農產品進來不是說要不要吃美國貨而是價格能不能來打個過農民撐不撐得住選票會不會出事看這裡面敏感度來講對台灣農業的衝擊豬肉"},{"start":9720.379,"end":9741.121,"text":"五顆星很嚴重政治敏感度也非常高雞肉四顆星玉米四顆星 三顆星稻米最值得你看他對台灣農業的衝擊一顆星而已不大可是政治敏感度五顆星對於你這個表你基本上同意吧"},{"start":9742.342,"end":9763.221,"text":"我覺得基本上這個表有點問題因為第一個部分 我講玉米就好玉米本身零關稅 現在就零關稅了它進來以後當作飼料用可以降低我們的飼料成本所以玉米沒有問題 零關稅沒問題大豆沒問題本來就零關稅的 大豆本來也零關稅的大豆也是零關稅的嗎"},{"start":9764.002,"end":9791.994,"text":"然後你說稻米稻米對農業的衝擊低這個如果開放的時候對農業的衝擊才高勒因為我們有22萬戶的農民都是這個所以這個表的衝擊這個表有問題農業衝擊是有一些問題的這個表我告訴你這個表不是我編的這個表是這個表是AI切GDP編的切GDP我就問他他是給我這樣子的答案所以他是亂寫"},{"start":9793.464,"end":9808.701,"text":"他整理了很多專家的結果咧我覺得這個是不正確的啦不能隨便用這個GPD隨便寫寫就對了好 那我就問你喔我們是不是最後可以選擇性的零關稅加配套的保護是不是可以這樣"},{"start":9811.283,"end":9835.299,"text":"選擇性的零關稅加配套的部分部分零關稅部分保護我想我們農業部在談判的過程中一定是要最底線就是確保我們的農民的收益然後保護我們的產業的競爭力在這個情況之下有一部分是可以零關稅有一部分是我們希望你可以再公開的講一遍我記得你以前講過了"},{"start":9836.48,"end":9847.286,"text":"你絕對反對全面零關稅讓農產品進來我絕對反對 而且我們在歷史的談判中也不會全面的零關稅好 謝謝 我就你這句話 謝謝謝謝賴司保委員之訊登記發言的 謝謝"},{"start":9853.849,"end":9874.504,"text":"登记发言的委员除不在场外其余均已发言完毕 询答结束委员林黛华所提书面咨询列入记录刊登公报书面咨询及未及答复部分请相关单位于一周内以书面答复并赴资本会委员另有要求期限者从期锁定"},{"start":9877.727,"end":9884.941,"text":"我们现在讨论事项锁裂三案和并寻查结束现在进行主条讨论"},{"start":9886.465,"end":9892.389,"text":"那請議事人員宣讀所有條文若有修正動議及附帶決議請一併宣讀宣讀完畢後再進行協商請宣讀"},{"start":9916.945,"end":9944.15,"text":"得继续依其原核准进驻之资格条件进驻园区不受前条规定条件之限制前项原核准进驻之园区事业属自然人或独资商号者应该自然人或独资商号之负责人发生继承事实或赠予配偶或直系写清二清等内被清除而改由其继承人或受赠人申请进驻园区时亦不受前条规定条件之限制"},{"start":9945.529,"end":9971.715,"text":"委員陳廷飛等人所提修正動議第15條之一地方農業科技園區於本條文修正施行前經主管機關1第5條規定報經行政院核定納入為主管機關管理之園區者其於納入管理前原核准進駐之園區事業得繼續依其原核准進駐之資格條件進駐園區不受前條鎖定園區事業組織型態規定之限制"},{"start":9976.192,"end":10002.36,"text":"前項原核准進駐之園區事業屬自然人或獨資商號者應該自然人或獨資商號之負責人發生繼承事實或贈與配偶或直系血親二親等內卑親屬由繼承人或受贈人申請進駐園區時亦不受前條鎖定園區事業組織形態規定之限制前項申請進駐園區之繼承人或受贈人"},{"start":10003.444,"end":10025.027,"text":"因以一人為限 第一項原核准進駐原區事業屬自然人或獨資商號於原區納入管理後至本條文修正施行前有第二項規定之繼承事實或贈予行為者亦得適用前二項規定提案人陳亭飛 賴瑞榮 邱益穎"},{"start":10026.314,"end":10054.85,"text":"委員李博義等16人提案植物品種及種苗法第53條之一增訂第三項犯第一項之罪且將其行為傳播宣傳有使他人效仿違法行為質疑者得加重其刑制二分之一其餘同現行條文農產品市場交易法委員陳廷飛等16人提案第6條農產品之交易不得壟斷操縱價格或故意變更質量"},{"start":10056.124,"end":10082.987,"text":"对市场交易秩序或行为造成危害任何人不得故意散播影响农产品交易价格市场交易秩序或行为之谣言或不实讯息委员陈寅等16人提案第10条农民团体共同运销之及货场所需用之土地适同农业用地前项用地应专供农产品共同运销及货场使用其房屋税及地价税减半征收"},{"start":10084.605,"end":10097.039,"text":"委員邱益穎等二十人提案第十五條農產品批發市場所需用之公有土地政府應優先出租依公告限制讓售貨以其他合作開發方式取得之"},{"start":10098.57,"end":10117.904,"text":"所需用私有土地由直轄市縣市主管機關得協助洽購租用或依法申請徵收並得使用依法編定之農業用地其屬國營事業機構所有之土地得經主管機關核准後以租用合作開發或以其他合作方式取得之"},{"start":10119.417,"end":10133.061,"text":"前項用地非金主管機關許可不得變更使用並應專攻農產品批發市場設置及營運使用委員陳亭飛等16人提案第35條違反第6條第1項第14條第1項規定者處薪台幣30萬元以上"},{"start":10139.082,"end":10149.746,"text":"3000萬元以下罰還其領有許可證者並廢止許可證違反第6條第二項規定足深損害農產品運銷秩序者處新台幣30萬元以上3000萬元以下罰還"},{"start":10153.086,"end":10182.009,"text":"委員陳亭飛等人所提修正動議第35條違反第14條第一項規定者儲新台幣30萬元以上3000萬元以下罰還其領有許可證者並廢止許可證違反第6條第一項規定者儲新台幣6萬元以上30萬元以下罰還其領有許可證者並廢止許可證違反第6條第二項規定足深損害農產品運銷秩序者儲新台幣6萬元以上"},{"start":10183.521,"end":10205.169,"text":"30萬元以下罰還 提案人陳廷飛 賴瑞榮 邱志偉 宣讀完畢那個要不要了解一下那個邱委員 邱志偉委員在路上了嗎 在來委員會的路上了嗎"},{"start":10213.717,"end":10231.958,"text":"OK了吗好 来了好 那我们就不用休息了那我们现在协商讨论事项第一案农业科技园区设置管理条例增订第15条之一条文草案先请农业部说明"},{"start":10233.001,"end":10261.122,"text":"好有關於那個修正條的討論那陳庭惠委員有提了一個修正動議的部分那這個修正動議我們覺得是支持的所以是不是可以建議就是依那個陳庭惠委員的修正動議來通過好那我們第15條之一修正第15條之一是不是依照修正動議來通過好那我們請宣讀一下第15條之一"},{"start":10262.216,"end":10290.027,"text":"第一項地方農業科技園區於本條文修正實行前經主管機關依第五條規定報經行政院核定納入為主管機關管理之園區者其於納入管理前原核准進駐之園區事業得繼續依其原核准進駐之資格條件進駐園區不受前條鎖定園區事業組織形態規定之限制 第二項除莫具修正文亦不受前條鎖定園區事業組織形態規定之限制外 區域均同"},{"start":10291.906,"end":10311.775,"text":"金融委員陳廷飛等16人提案第3項及第4項前項申請進駐園區之繼承人或受贈人應以一人為限第1項原核准進駐之園區事業署自然人或獨資商號與園區納入管理後至本條維修正施行前有第2項規定之繼承事實或正義行為者立得適用前2項規定宣傳完畢"},{"start":10313.414,"end":10325.603,"text":"因為我們今天我們的條文都不一樣所以我們要一條一條來宣讀所以請問各位同仁依照剛剛宣讀的寫商結論通過請問有異議"},{"start":10328.806,"end":10342.824,"text":"那通过那讨论事项第一案农业科技园区设置管理条例增订第15条之一条文草案领据审查报告提报愿为讨论请问需不需要交友党团协商"},{"start":10344.265,"end":10361.804,"text":"不需要交由党团协商那院会讨论的时候有本席说明谢谢那我们现在讨论这个第二案植物品种及种苗法第53条之一条为修正草案请农业部先说明"},{"start":10362.734,"end":10383.515,"text":"有關於第53條之一那個李博義委員所提的案子本身他特別提到犯第一項的罪行有加重其刑責之二分之一那農業部是建議是維持現行的版本那理由有一個非常重要的就是當他"},{"start":10385.397,"end":10414.397,"text":"違反了這個規定以後依據相關的刑法57條的規定他如果發生這種犯罪的損害而且還有他的犯罪的態度已經可以直接加重其刑的這個規定了已經有這個規定了然後第二個部分是那個李博議委員裡面提到的使公眾仿效之餘的部分那因為使公眾仿效這個部分在實務上他比較難判斷也不明確所以我們建議說"},{"start":10416.138,"end":10442.497,"text":"这一条不用加的时候在现有的条文也可以处理加重其行所以我们建议是维持原来的条文好那个因为我们这个案子提案的委员没有在现场所以呢我们就把这个案子我们另期再处理所以讨论事项第二案植物品种及种苗法第53条之一条文修正草案另定期再继续处理"},{"start":10444.219,"end":10453.132,"text":"來我們進行第三案我們現在協商討論事項第三案農產品市場交易法部分條文修正草案請農業部說明"},{"start":10455.031,"end":10481.462,"text":"好那第六條的部分那個委員那個陳錦惠委員所提到的就是修正第一項跟第二項那其中在第一項的部分增加了對沒有他就是把這個牟取不正當的利益劃掉然後增加了對市場交易次序或行為造成危害那第二項的部分也增加了市場交易次序或行為的部分"},{"start":10482.122,"end":10505.078,"text":"那農業部認為我們基本上支持陳田惠委員的一個提案但是在原來的條文裡面有一個謀取不正當利益那這個應該把它留下來因為它是非常明確的一個證據可以去處罰那第二個部分就是委員所提到的市場交易次序或行為我們建議是說或行為可以拿掉因為"},{"start":10505.939,"end":10532.09,"text":"因為已經對市場教育次序已經有在處理的時候那行為只是對這個次序的一個過程所以其實在處理這個對市場教育次序的時候就其實已經同步了已經在處理行為所以或行為可以拿掉我想我們第6條就修正通過就我尊重農業部的意見那我們就修正通過那第4條"},{"start":10534.52,"end":10546.056,"text":"那第10條的部分是有關於這個那個農民團體的運銷的集貨地的部分那陳委員跟莊瑞雄委員所提案的部分就是更明確的將這個前項應專攻農產品共同運銷"},{"start":10550.923,"end":10578.617,"text":"常使用 場域使用其房屋稅及地下稅減半徵收那基本上農業部是支持的但是剛才那個財政部有提到就是說其實地價稅可以不用寫因為地價稅本來就免稅的所以不用寫 只要寫其房屋稅減半徵收那我們也徵得了陳穎委員的同意好那我們就照我們農業部的修正版本通過那第15條"},{"start":10580.475,"end":10599.949,"text":"那第15條的部分是由邱毅英委員跟林儲英委員等20個人的提案他修正的是第一項跟第二項那基本上我們農業部也是以支持的方式但是在法治的體力上面來講我們最主要就是針對私有地的部分因為私有地"},{"start":10601.369,"end":10625.358,"text":"除了國營事業以外還有一般的私有地那國營事業的土地的部分的租用我們覺得可以納入啦那一般人民的私有地的話就很難由政府去介入這個租用的部分所以我們重新修改了這個我們農業部的一個建議版本那我們希望說是由農業部的建議版本來文字通過"},{"start":10628.647,"end":10651.218,"text":"部長可不可以請農業部把你們修改的文字版本再唸一次好不好還是可以秀在那個powerpoint上面嗎委員印給在場的一個委員我們秀一下那個網頁我就繼續唸委員第一項的部分等一下等一下是不是沒有在桌上嗎你們沒有印嗎"},{"start":10652.694,"end":10668.402,"text":"有嗎沒有啦他是在他的那個口頭報告的那個書面裡頭啦但是你們沒有另外印成單張讓大家有一個單張的嗎來他有一個單張的因為我因為你這個我們要留成正式的會議記錄我建議農業部還是要印成單張讓我們對啊"},{"start":10673.285,"end":10679.509,"text":"我們給提案委員先看一下沒有印的就補印給所有的委員你們是不是把它念過一次好不好現在可以念了嗎"},{"start":10696.345,"end":10723.526,"text":"OK第一項的部分農產品批發市場所需用之公用土地政府應優先出租依公告限值讓售或以其他合作方式提供所需用私有土地由直轄市縣市主管機關協助洽購依法申請徵收租用或以其他合作方式取得並得使用依法編遞之農業用地"},{"start":10725.467,"end":10750.658,"text":"第二項前項租用或以其他合作方式取得之私有土地以國營事業土地為限且應經中央主管機關核准其使用期限不得少於20年第三項第一項用地應專攻農產品批發市場設置及經營使用非經主管機關許可不得變更使用以上"},{"start":10755.444,"end":10769.235,"text":"公用啊公用啊公有公有來我們議員委員不好意思第一項的部分前半段農產品批發市場所需用之公有土地那再做個澄清來議員"},{"start":10778.194,"end":10793.485,"text":"基本上我是沒什麼意見OK嗎這個部分基本上是跟邱議員委員的版本意思是一致的只是在寫法上面來講我們的第一段的部分是先界定"},{"start":10795.386,"end":10822.017,"text":"公有的跟私有的部分的一個處理方式然後再來就是講前面的私有的部分只限於國營事業一般私人的土地我們沒辦法去強迫說他要去租用然後最後一個是我們一定鎖定他只能做批發市場的設置跟經營然後沒有經過中央主管機關同意不得變更我們怕申請完了以後馬上做變更就比較麻煩"},{"start":10822.779,"end":10828.912,"text":"OK好來我們第15條就是修正通過那第35條"},{"start":10830.862,"end":10857.798,"text":"好 第35條的部分是針對違反相關規定的一個處罰的划環那陳廷輝委員本來的提案有把它提高到3000萬的部分但是後來陳廷輝委員有提了一個修正動議那我們覺得這個修正動議農業部是支持的所以是不是可以依照陳廷輝委員的版本的修正動議來通過好 那第35條我們就依陳廷輝委員修正動議的版本通過"},{"start":10859.66,"end":10881.012,"text":"來 我們宣讀協商結論宣讀協商結論 農產品市場交易法部分條文修正草案第6條修正通過第10條修正通過第15條修正通過第35條 趙委員陳亭飛等三人所提修正同意通過 宣讀完畢請問各位同仁依照剛剛宣讀的協商結論通過請問有異議來 鄭天才委員"},{"start":10885.779,"end":10910.772,"text":"不好意思 我再請教一下那個第10條第10條如果按照剛才先讀的部分就是現行的條文有提到這個農民團體共同運銷之其後場首需用之土地適同農業用地這邊沒有問題就是現在修正之後就少了這個適用第15條規定還在嗎"},{"start":10913.616,"end":10930.428,"text":"還在 不在了對所以這個部分有沒有影響不會 我跟委員報告因為第15條規定裡面它相關的就是有包括公有土地私有土地政府單位要去做協助因為等一下下個台灣會有"},{"start":10930.948,"end":10959.162,"text":"那相對的我們這一條最主要是解決那個地價稅沒有那個房屋稅的減免這一條的精神就是在處理那個房屋稅的減免所以你如果這邊適用第15條的規定的話那又會卡住了原來15條的部分有沒有針對這些政府單位的這些公有的或私有土地我們要去協助但是我們在協助的時候只處理批發市場不處理農民團體"},{"start":10960.743,"end":10980.793,"text":"所以你一旦寫適用的時候反而是所有的農民團體的這些集貨廠政府都要來協助那以現在實務來講農民團體的這些集貨廠它是由自己來做處理我們只處理批發市場好 我只是提醒因為第10條是針對集貨廠然後第15條是針對批發市場"},{"start":10989.591,"end":11005.378,"text":"然後這個集貨廠原來的第10條 現行的條文的第10條他集貨廠也可以適用15條原來是規定的他是讓他更寬現在你現在刪掉的話不過我只是提醒"},{"start":11009.318,"end":11032.743,"text":"跟委員報告當初試用15條的時候有一些困難因為15條是批發市場所以批發市場所用的土地必須是讓他自己所有所以就算是私有土地他是不能用陳租私有土地依照現行的15條是不行的所以現在我們把它刪掉讓那個集貨廠他就可以去租用私人土地只要他來做"},{"start":11033.823,"end":11056.002,"text":"那個集貨廠使用就可以免然後房屋稅就可以減半所以它是整個放寬它的限制好 OK那我們討論事項第三案農產品市場交易法部分條文修正草案並按您據審查報告提報院會討論需不需要交由黨團協商"},{"start":11058.621,"end":11076.307,"text":"不用那不需交由黨團協商院會討論時有本席說明那審查通過的條文相關法制用語授權主席及議事人員整理本日所列議程處理完據現在散會謝謝委員那我們現在準備我們協商我們的農退儲金"},{"start":11096.01,"end":11108.164,"text":"對 換場換場對對對對我們休息我們先休息五分鐘換場一下喔喔 好"},{"start":11147.117,"end":11147.157,"text":"謝謝大家"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}