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謝謝今天要主要拜託各位黨團幹部來討論就是上午院會我們通過了協商結論進行總統國情報告的協商那也跟大家特別報告一下上會期我們有通過一個建請案"},{"start":2143.934,"end":2151.993,"text":"請總統至本院進行國情報告有關總統府秘書長也對該案子含附已經列入了上午的報告事項"},{"start":2153.513,"end":2176.855,"text":"院會的決定是交付由黨團協商會議處理所以我們現在就進行本案的協商今天上午在溝通議程的時候也有黨團幹部提到有關總統國情報告的日期問答的方式等要進行溝通因此我們本院聽取總統國情報告是憲政上重要事項"},{"start":2177.856,"end":2201.709,"text":"基於總統昨日上午在查序中提到化解化誤解為理解我們今天就針對國情報告一案我們來先進行溝通等到我們達到一定共識之後再請總統府問相關決定是否接受我們再來處理後續的事宜現在我們就請各黨團來表示意見那國民黨團來請表達意見好嗎民進黨團"},{"start":2209.735,"end":2210.776,"text":"那我們請陳金榮總召進發言 好不好"},{"start":2215.851,"end":2236.359,"text":"那我就攻堅不是從命啦有關我們立法院來見請總統到我們立法院來做國警報告其實這個案子是我們台灣民眾黨來提出那也謝謝我們中國國民黨的黨團來協助才會有這樣的一個決議那也在二月"},{"start":2246.563,"end":2250.564,"text":"11號我們立法院收到總統府秘書長的一個函物也經過我們這個韓院長在總統府的查詢有確定這個我們賴清德總統"},{"start":2263.75,"end":2280.687,"text":"要到我們立法院來做國情的一個報告那台灣民眾黨在這邊最主要的就是第一個希望我們能夠來確認賴清德總統到立法院來的國情報告這個國情報告的內容"},{"start":2284.322,"end":2290.866,"text":"這個內容包括我想軍購嘛軍購賴總統直接投書到媒體也跳過行政院對軍購賴清德賴總統也在總統府開的"},{"start":2300.272,"end":2322.838,"text":"記者會那我覺得他到立法院我們民意的最高殿堂軍購的這個報告的這個內容是我們一定要要求的第二個當然就是我們的這個台美的這個貿易協定這個是我們要求的一個內容不管行政院認為這個"},{"start":2326.68,"end":2350.753,"text":"關稅的協定是在行政院的一個職責但是賴總統多次的對我們關稅的一個協定他也下了指導期所以我們臺灣民眾黨黨團對這個貿易協定的內容我們也一定要要求在報告的內容之內另外賴清德總統是應該是第一位"},{"start":2352.133,"end":2372.984,"text":"在我們立法院經過刪除通過的法律案我們請德賴總統不公佈 行政院不附屬這樣的一個破壞憲政的一個狀況那是不是我們"},{"start":2373.976,"end":2399.756,"text":"也要求建議要求賴總統也要在這個國情報告裡面作為他報告的內容因為就是牽涉到我們立法院我們的尊嚴還有我們的這個權益好 就是以上針對報告內容的部分台灣民眾黨黨團先行提出以上 謝謝謝謝陳總召的發言蔡總召 副總召哪一位要第二位發言"},{"start":2402.45,"end":2429.17,"text":"好 蔡總統沒關係 你就加油好 謝謝院長 立法院的各位同仁這個今天本席第一次坐在這個位置那我想總統到立法院做國情的報告這不是新聞我想過去多多少少在朝在野的委員都做過這樣的提案"},{"start":2430.131,"end":2446.192,"text":"但他最涉及最根本核心的問題在於他不能夠違憲所以有些委員會自己加碼就國情報告是不違憲的總統本來在相關的法規憲法總統來立法院做國情報告沒有問題"},{"start":2447.133,"end":2470.501,"text":"但因為立法院的同仁過去都曾經出現加碼譬如說這個要求那個,這個要求這個然後要求像比照行政院院長的方式要來做相關的這些質詢那因為這個是涉及違憲所以後來其實都沒有辦法成行所以我想這個是過去總統國情報告在立法院,民進黨也在也過啦,這個都發生過"},{"start":2472.722,"end":2499.803,"text":"所以呢在這樣的一個前提底下今天我們這個來提這個問題我想原因還是要謝謝韓院長因為韓院長在新春茶會裡面跟總統提到這個事情那以我的理解總統對韓院長的意見是相當重視那也對韓院長表達尊重那更重要的總統很希望透過這個國情報告可以來促進"},{"start":2501.472,"end":2529.747,"text":"這個朝野更進一步把國家最重要的問題趕快來解決這是人民所期盼的從總預算一直到軍購案一直到台美的關稅問題其實這些都是中華民國重中之重的事情所以也因為這個如此賴總統願意釋出在韓院長的建議底下賴總統來釋出善意所以呢我想今天民進黨團在這裡也會清楚的表達"},{"start":2532.27,"end":2546.807,"text":"對於賴總統來立法院做國情報告基本上我們是支持的但是我們還是在強調希望大家在共同遵守憲法跟相關法規的規定底下我們來促成這個事情"},{"start":2547.952,"end":2573.065,"text":"就是說今天大家說白話是要把事情做好你如果要加碼在那裡說一些危險的事情就辦不成也辜負了韓院長的一番好意所以民進黨團很願意來促成這個事情所以我也來之前跟府方也做過初步的聯繫那我想賴總統還是秉持著跟韓院長的談話他很願意來立法院做國情報告"},{"start":2574.065,"end":2593.022,"text":"那所以呢這個他也願意說如果委員在國情報告結束之後有任何的想法要跟總統來分享總統也願意留下來聽大家的這個聲音但是名稱上可能韓院長所提那個統問統答四個字可能就是"},{"start":2593.723,"end":2610.45,"text":"要稍微因為這個還是有違憲的爭議啦但是形式的內容他很願意在不違憲的情況底下形式的內容都遵照韓院長的方式大家他也願意留下來聽然後呢聽完之後他也願意再做第二次的發言"},{"start":2611.13,"end":2634.132,"text":"所以我想這個精神是韓院長定下來的韓院長提出來的所以民進黨團很願意來支持這樣的一個想法國家才能夠往前走問題才能夠可不可以由總統來立法院做國情報告之後大家朝野可以有一個新的開始能夠讓國家的這些關鍵的問題可以趕快解決所以我大概"},{"start":2634.853,"end":2636.796,"text":"表達初步這樣的一個想法"},{"start":2646.152,"end":2670.334,"text":"謝謝主席 謝謝院長在開春希望大家能夠一切順順利利圓圓滿滿所以您的呼籲國民黨也一一都接受也尊重對於賴總統是不是有機會成為中華民國第一個到立法院來做國情報告的總統"},{"start":2672.165,"end":2698.7,"text":"這是一個歷史的里程碑我想我們大家都會很慎重我想溝通的形式跟讓全國國人了解總統希望迫切解決的國家的問題是什麼他的想法是什麼他想提出的做法 具體的做法是什麼我想人民都很願意來傾聽"},{"start":2701.178,"end":2730.178,"text":"其實國家的總統就是國家的大家長很多事情在國會可以溝通對人民都可以溝通因為畢竟立法院就代表2300萬所有基層的民意所選出來的人是一個全覆蓋的民意在這裡正如美國最高法院所做的判決川普大帝"},{"start":2732.278,"end":2760.384,"text":"他任何的施政也必須要符合法律行為更需要有國會的授權所以我們在這裡要特別強調我們非常歡迎賴總統能夠到國會來也成為一個寫歷史的人倒是覺得大家不要太把很多的框架把它設限在那裡那如果說"},{"start":2762.984,"end":2790.432,"text":"今天我們還是要走回去過去的老路國內可以溝通但沒有溝通要用國際投訴的方式其實國內已經有很多發聲的管道更可以到立法院來直接告訴全國的國人對呀當然執政者跟在野者"},{"start":2791.581,"end":2820.667,"text":"我想民進黨也在野過嘛過去在野對執政的總統 要來國情報告也提出了相當多寶貴的看法我們都記得非常的清楚我也在想當時為什麼民進黨在野的時候會提出這樣的一個看法跟想法無非就是讓他們秉承的民意能夠徹底有機會能瞭解總統想怎麼做"},{"start":2822.435,"end":2849.933,"text":"他們也跟代表人民提出相關的問題也希望總統能夠解惑事宜讓大家能夠了解我想這個完完全全有別於在總統府開記者會所以我們覺得這個方式啊不要太拘泥要真正能夠解決問題讓大家能夠充分的了解我想這個才是啊"},{"start":2853.136,"end":2881.289,"text":"對賴總統的歷史定位啊會有非常高的一個評價希望這個我們今天的討論現在是第一輪的討論我們希望不要任何的框架的情況之下設限的情況之下能夠好好的充分的把大家的想法講一下我想第一輪第一次發言國民黨講得很清楚希望不要在設限的情況之下"},{"start":2883.56,"end":2910.28,"text":"總統能夠到國會不只跟人民做國情報告對各個政黨提出的問題也能有一個清晰明白的回答讓全國國人能夠來瞭解謝謝三個黨團委員第一輪都已經發言完畢基本立場表達了台灣民眾黨團非常清楚我就希望針對軍購啊關稅啊這些重要問題帶政黨必須要報告"},{"start":2913.312,"end":2931.686,"text":"民進黨也講得非常清楚要符合憲政的慣例不能侵犯到行政院長的權責這一點非常清楚國民黨團是不拘泥不框架但是針對國情報告完畢之後所有委員所提的問題也希望總統能夠答覆這裡面我們要思考一個問題100跟0的問題"},{"start":2935.737,"end":2952.332,"text":"如果我們今天達成共識總統來了我們就成功了如果我們沒有辦法達成共識我們就變成零分又是虛晃一兆那我們要考量如果總統來大家國人立法委員本身要很多問題急切的需要了解"},{"start":2953.53,"end":2970.216,"text":"那明年總統會不會來?不知道下一任總統會不會來?也不知道但是我們就開創我們在場的加上總統一起我們開創一個新局起碼成立一個典範我覺得這是一個100跟0所以我非常希望能夠達成大家一個共識"},{"start":2972.128,"end":2995.473,"text":"那這裡面蔡總召所講的有她要尊重的就是你不能侵犯行政院長備詢的管理因為她畢竟不是行政院長被我們一問一答一問一答所以我昨天離開卓中蔡院長講的也很有意思她一問一答交給我放心韓院長一問一答交給我因為她行政院長所以我們顯然一問一答這個形式是在行政院跟立法院的互動那總統國情報告完畢之後"},{"start":2998.46,"end":3017.093,"text":"針對各位委員所提的是第二個部分第二個part委員提出一些問題我們可以提出各黨團派幾位代表提完第三個part總統說明完我們就把很漂亮的ending創下一個先例這是我的一個希望能夠促成的一個方法一個想法好 第二輪發言我們請莊惠雄 莊惠雄請發"},{"start":3022.493,"end":3032.062,"text":"現在先發一個,就是總統府來了,總統府剛剛來了一個文,早上總統府潘秘書長來了一個文,我們先把他發下去,發下去之後請莊銳雄書記長請發言,我們先發下去"},{"start":3045.405,"end":3046.206,"text":"這是同一份?同一份"},{"start":3081.892,"end":3107.989,"text":"莊瑞雄,你跟上,請,請發言。好,謝謝韓院長。那,先感謝啦,韓院長,這個在查會裡面這樣一提出來以後,我們,我相信各個政黨啊,朝野之間都希望啊,總統啊,有機會啊,到立法院來做國情報告。任何人其實都可以到國會來,最難到國會的人,就叫做總統。也不是總統想來就可以來。"},{"start":3109.315,"end":3136.126,"text":"按照我們立法院的職權限制辦法裡面我們的規定啊我們要總統要進來還要我們要四分之一提案院會決議邀請總統到立法院來做報告他才可以到國會裡面來做報告憲法徵修條文第四條第三項的規定是立法院在每年集會的時候得聽取總統的國情報告都是來聽取總統的國情報告"},{"start":3138.669,"end":3161.878,"text":"那剛剛台灣民眾黨的講法其實談了一些啦也很具體啦就是軍購啊還有整個台美協議啊或者是立法院的這些狀況啊這個確實是國家的大事啊那這些大事呢我相信在整個國政方針裡面啊總統他國情報告完以後啊"},{"start":3163.3,"end":3188.136,"text":"聽到各個黨團這樣在講的話我相信重大的事情他會列入考慮總統的腦袋不會長得跟大家不一樣大家都認為很重要的他認為不重要我相信也不至於但重點是說你說我就是要用來拘束你總統你到立法院必須要來講些什麼那我講這個好像是又跟憲法的規定又不符合就是總統是受邀而來這次是受邀而來"},{"start":3191.118,"end":3213.741,"text":"因為這個大家看到這個113年憲判日第九號為什麼會被憲法法庭把它宣告成違憲就是跟憲法的設計會有所不同韓院長在提出這樣的一個建議的時候我第一個聽到其實我是非常開心然後第二個在我腦海裡面我這個浮現的是美國總統"},{"start":3215.56,"end":3232.909,"text":"到國會去發表演說法國總統到國會去發表演說為什麼我扶起的是美國跟法國而不是日本或者其他內閣制的國家因為我們顯然我們現在不是內閣制的國家我們就比較傾向於總統制的國家美國總統是講完走人法國總統發表演說完就是國情之文講完以後愛討論你們國會自己去討論"},{"start":3242.677,"end":3258.805,"text":"走人了可是以現在這樣的方式你說完全是仿造美國跟法國在我們這個國家裡面似乎又覺得沒意思了所以你總統就永遠就沒有辦法走進國會就可惜了國家的施政方針"},{"start":3261.291,"end":3282.148,"text":"跟在野黨之間大家來一個互動聽取這樣的一個報告好事剛韓院長提到了我更開心了就是說總統報告完以後啊在野黨或者朝野政黨之間的國會議員來跟總統提出一些建言剛韓院長的用語是總統再來說明棒"},{"start":3285.612,"end":3309.183,"text":"我沒有想到說今天韓院長帶領了大家一起來守護這個憲法在這個憲法的規範底下大家來做一個運作讓總統有機會到國會裡面來做這樣的一個國情報告我相信大家的目的都是希望來達成這是美式一創啊啊 枝枝節節的事情啊那其實我是覺得說"},{"start":3310.464,"end":3318.188,"text":"因為今天他們要拜天公啦 要拜天公的最大的禁忌就是都不要說壞話 大家都說好話不要去動怒 天公聽了都開心 有辦法成局的話這個韓院長今天真的是 不給你多按一點讚都不行"},{"start":3331.343,"end":3349.121,"text":"好 謝謝莊委員 臺灣民眾黨要二輪發言嗎 邱委員王委員請我們第一次來 發言就是在寫歷史 所以真的是好兆頭順著剛剛前面的不管是國民黨這邊還是民進黨這邊的一些意見"},{"start":3351.383,"end":3368.292,"text":"因為我們先前就是前幾天的那個報導來看就知道賴總統傾向可以有類似這種所謂的問統答的方式就是這個概念當然剛剛蔡總統也想過是避開這種問或答的概念也許就可以成立"},{"start":3368.872,"end":3397.877,"text":"那所以基本上我們是不是可以做出大概初步大家的共識就是一個諮詢的概念那剛剛那個韓院長也用了一個很好的turn叫說明叫避開那幾個字啦那看起來這個應該是沒有什麼太大的爭議也就是說這個看起來這個立法委員這邊立法院這邊還是可以提出一些諮詢那也希望總統能夠在聽取這些諮詢之後能夠給予一些說明我想我的意見大概是這樣"},{"start":3400.016,"end":3400.819,"text":"謝謝王委員 請國民黨團 二人發言請來 林培祥書記長請"},{"start":3407.153,"end":3431.49,"text":"好 謝謝沒有錯我們現在正在寫歷史畢竟來講國情報告在中華民國憲政史上是第一份但是老實說我會認為是說因為目前的世界局勢也是特別的詭譎多變那不管說是忽然說我們有這些軍購的問題也好還是說台美關稅也好還是說很多我們現在看到很多的訊息"},{"start":3432.35,"end":3458.732,"text":"基本上我們現在看到的訊息我們都需要一個答案我們都期待說我們更明確的一些我們可以去不管是身為立法委員還是身為中華民國的國民我們都期待說我們知道有一個一定程度的答案來去解惑而且我們想知道的是說過去這一個算是從四月份來從去年四月份來我們有很多東西不只是身為一個國會議員"},{"start":3460.093,"end":3480.713,"text":"而是身為一個公民身為一個知識分子有很多東西我們需要去了解但是我們就很期待說了解這一切就是應該是我們的國家領導人來跟我們來解惑所以說當我們聽到說有機會總統來國情報告的時候我們會期待說我們想要解惑的到底是什麼"},{"start":3481.594,"end":3507.443,"text":"當然我們現在遇到三大問題關稅、對美投資、軍購但是三大問題呢總統沒有錯我們對於所有事都不設限但是我們的求知欲我們希望說以身為國會議員也好身為一個知識分子也好我們需要取得滿足而且我們的民眾這兩千三百萬人對於目前的整個國家的狀況也需要獲得一個瞭解尤其是說我們現在看到的軍購案"},{"start":3508.603,"end":3523.471,"text":"軍購案裡面對於我們不是只有單純的是一個國際局勢的變化而已而是更現實的我們也很清楚的知道說這個軍購案對我們的整個國家未來的總預算未來幾年之間的總預算甚至"},{"start":3524.111,"end":3536.222,"text":"你想可能長達十年之久的總預算那未來到底是怎麼樣那我們期待說我們有聽到一個從國家領導人口中給我們一個正確的訊息那我想這一點來講是國民黨黨團希望能夠得到的"},{"start":3541.182,"end":3569.502,"text":"謝謝林培祥委員各位黨團幹部容許我把它分為三個部分看看是不是我們已經達成共識了第一個部分就是總統來立法院做一個國情報告第二個部分各政黨推出代表來諮詢總統第三個部分總統來針對各政黨委員所關切他提出說明像這樣子三個部分可以不可以如果大家同意這三個部分我們就開始來研究這三個部分"},{"start":3571.309,"end":3597.672,"text":"好 請宗教兵們請我非常認同院長的這樣的一個描述只是說我這邊因為我們自己立法委員自己法治局印的這個說明我們要注意不要踩雷考試的時候要得的分數我們都要拿但是不要踩到雷被扣分那剛剛院長講那個部分容許我用我們立法院法治局的法條我們稍微把它做一些修整讓它更順"},{"start":3598.473,"end":3623.955,"text":"不會造成外界認為立法院自己沒有合法合憲那首先這個彩色版的部分是不是我也拿給我們院長看一下因為我們是在立法院手冊法治局印的這個關於立法院職員刑事法當中被宣告違憲的部分我們把它整理放大那各位手上都有一份因為這個本書大家可以跟法治局拿字很小"},{"start":3624.793,"end":3648.473,"text":"大概呢我可以來說明一下就是目前我們小心不要去踩雷的他這裡面憲判的主文有提到說總統是否何時以何等方式到立法院聽取其國情報告是否國情報告的主題跟涵蓋範圍是總統本於自己的權責來決定那大家互相尊重那這是OK的"},{"start":3649.013,"end":3658.562,"text":"但是呢要小心喔他說立法院沒有指定國情報告內容之全所以我們不要去指定大家認為重要的總統一定會講第二個呢也無就其國情報告的內容對總統為詢問"},{"start":3664.147,"end":3669.728,"text":"要求總統答覆或要求總統聽取建言之權啊那這裡面我們就避開幾個我們不要去說詢問啊或者說要求總統答 總統也不是答覆那我們我們是建言還是我們表達看法總統照他說的總統也沒有聽取要求總統聽取建言的權利那所以我們是不是建議說我們就避開了什麼建言啊 詢答啦 答覆啦通通不要用這個字眼"},{"start":3692.054,"end":3720.897,"text":"那我容我這裡來做一個剛剛院長的一個描述啦就是總統來做國情報告沒有人規定總統只能講一次嘛所以他可以先講第一次稍後再做第二次的補充我想這個部分呢完全不會踩到我們憲判的內容那至於第一次跟第二次的補充之間我們國會委員各黨團想要表達看法那當然是我們的權利嘛"},{"start":3721.604,"end":3737.727,"text":"所以我是建議說就用剛剛院長所講的這個部分那我們在對外表述的時候或者我們要落住於行之於明文的時候呢避開大法官憲判所說不可以有違憲的部分那最後呢 容我很不好意思 上次也跟院長請託了因為呢 現在的徵修條文它的嚴格從1994年到2000年到2005年呢"},{"start":3748.769,"end":3773.518,"text":"這個總統的國情報告歷經了幾個階段我大概 容許我很短的跟大家報告在1994年的時候啊那時候國民大會修改 徵修條文準備1996年總統直選那大家知道在1994年之前呢國民大會是選總統的六年集會一次集會那一次就是投票選總統那當文保總統改成直選之後你國民大會留著要做什麼事情"},{"start":3774.485,"end":3787.955,"text":"要每年集會所以在1994年的時候我們的政修條文就寶出了一條國民大會集會時得聽取總統國情報告並檢討國事提供建言總共18個字得聽取總統國情報告9個字並檢討國事提供建言"},{"start":3798.763,"end":3820.78,"text":"因為這樣的修憲的關係國民大會從單純的選總統多了每年可以集會聽直選後的總統來跟他做國情報告而且還可以怎樣國民大會可以檢討國事因為國民大會沒有立法權他怎麼表達對國事的看法就那麼一年一次提供建言 檢討國事提供建言那麼總統幹嘛 總統在台下聽那因為我曾經做過"},{"start":3825.123,"end":3849.406,"text":"不是做總統,我曾經做過國大代表所以李統統的時候,李先統統是在那裡是這樣做的但是呢,這個憲法的嚴格呢,在2000年的時候第六次的修憲的時候呢,產生了一個變化國民大會沒有了那國民大會這個聽取這個總統的國情報告提供建言的事情呢變成什麼?變成憲法徵求條文第四條第三項"},{"start":3850.609,"end":3859.267,"text":"他就只有幾個字喔立法院於每年集會時九個字得聽取總統國情報告沒有了為什麼"},{"start":3862.785,"end":3891.215,"text":"這個檢討國事提供建言不見了呢因為那時候在修憲的時候認為說並檢討國事提供建言立法院不需要因為立法院每個會席都跟行政院進行施政總諮詢所以不需要再跟總統來進行檢討國事提供建言要提供建言你平常就可以了所以如果我們從法律的嚴格來看本來有這九個字還可以檢討國事提供建言後來立法院繼承了這個聽取國情報告的"},{"start":3892.165,"end":3894.438,"text":"那個權力的時候呢沒有了這九個字連"},{"start":3896.954,"end":3923.288,"text":"檢討國事提供建言都不適合在這裡面表達所以我是建議說剛剛院長那個部分我們第一趴總統發表國情報告第三趴他在補充他的國情報告那在第一趴跟第三趴之間我們委員各黨團是不是在有限定的時間限定的人次我們表達我們對於看法"},{"start":3924.369,"end":3940.71,"text":"也不要說建言啦也不要說檢討啦也不要說提供建言也不要說是檢討我只是要表達我們各委員或各黨團的看法那這樣的話我們接下來的討論就聚焦在哪裡聚焦在說這第二趴要多少時間多少人次那以上建議 謝謝"},{"start":3942.432,"end":3969.705,"text":"謝謝鍾嘉賓委的補充發言哪位黨團幹部要補充發言的沒有這三個part如果各位同意的話第一個階段就是國情報告了嘛第二階段就是各黨團大家推派幾位然後把你們的憂慮你們的關切甚至你們的懷疑講出來第三part總統就做一個收尾了我想這樣我們就寫下了一個從來沒有發生過第一次的歷史事件那請問大家有沒有什麼看法"},{"start":3970.245,"end":3986.713,"text":"如果沒有我們來討論第二個part就是我們各黨團推派幾位來提大家我們來進入第二個部分好不好那國民黨團你覺得副總長你覺得提每個黨團幾位委員比較適合"},{"start":4000.283,"end":4015.23,"text":"關於那個方法我想補充一下就是因為聽起來好像民主進步黨這邊對於問跟答這樣的一個字眼感受到比較敏感"},{"start":4016.445,"end":4026.63,"text":"比較忌諱 理解所以採取了一個折衷方案我想我們之前傳統的模式就有討論到統問統答 即問即答因為這兩個模式都有個問字也有個答字聽起來就是好像有點比較抵觸你們的慎重原則感覺起來你們聽到這個比較敏感"},{"start":4042.917,"end":4060.493,"text":"其實不管是統問統答或者是集問集答其實我們求的都是一個實問實答雖然實問實答裡頭也有你們比較忌諱的問跟答可是我們要求的就是像那個宗嘉斌委員你說的就是一個實質的回答這樣子 對那"},{"start":4063.897,"end":4072.993,"text":"實質的對話那現在就是說大家對於問跟答這兩個字比較敏感那我現在聽起來好像就用"},{"start":4075.578,"end":4096.455,"text":"以立委這個角度就用提供看法取代問然後以總統的角度就用答就用說明取代答這個角度所以就有一點比較用包裝的方式用包裝的方式去進行這是我理解到的那我想我們民眾黨我們"},{"start":4098.416,"end":4105.541,"text":"要求的就是一個時問時答一個實質的總統能夠針對問題來給我們一個回覆這樣 以上說明 謝謝我們建議這邊兩位就回答剛剛主席的問題我們建議是兩位每個黨團兩位"},{"start":4123.654,"end":4140.023,"text":"這個我還要遵循一下國民黨團跟民進黨 不好意思台灣民眾黨團希望222 那國民黨團請表達意見還有 這個基本上喔因為過去還是有一定的比例嘛我們的制度還是要"},{"start":4141.894,"end":4159.08,"text":"因為剛剛一直在強調制度嘛早上我在質詢的時候院長也說制度很重要嘛那所以我想這個部分這個部分我們過去因為我們先尊重民眾黨嘛民眾黨之後提出這兩位嘛他們希望"},{"start":4160.32,"end":4185.279,"text":"我覺得他提的兩位是代表民眾黨希望有兩位上場不是說各政黨都是兩位所以民進黨接口接得很快這是他們慣用的手法突然就失憶了我們過去的遊戲規則所以這個部分我想應該可能民眾黨要兩位我覺得我們都可以尊重那其他的話因為過去不是771就992嘛"},{"start":4187.121,"end":4190.308,"text":"我想992的部分應該是會比較適合啦"},{"start":4199.921,"end":4220.661,"text":"我不知道過去是指哪一次啦不知道哪一個總統有來立法院做過國情報告所以我也不知道哪一個是992的所以我還是覺得因為其實算一算邏輯很簡單如果我們總統大概報告個三四十分鐘跟院長時間應該都很接近"},{"start":4221.582,"end":4227.768,"text":"那大概如果我們其他各個委員222或者331因為過去"},{"start":4230.928,"end":4258.719,"text":"我們你們要兩個222我們是沒意見啦但如果如果今天啊這個依照慣例上行政院在過去我們分配各個政黨發言的時候331是最長的啦221也有啦就看院長跟大家怎麼共同協商這個沒有叫做規矩啊這個大家怎麼協商好啊所以呢如果我們以時間來算啦我不知道一個委員要讓他講多久院長這個"},{"start":4260.26,"end":4281.582,"text":"對五分鐘嘛所以如果說我們一個委員講五分鐘那大概兩個小時以內一定要把它結束掉嘛對所以用這樣的回過頭來推大概我們就可以知道說什麼樣的分配比較合理啦那我再強調一次啦齁就是說站在民進黨團立場我們是希望促成"},{"start":4282.583,"end":4304.19,"text":"在這個憲法的時刻讓總統第一次到立法院來國情報告總統來這裡更重要的是希望總統用他的誠意行動配合院長的主張把一些爭議可不可以親自跟大家做一個說明叫做國情報告那我們的體制不是總統制嘛"},{"start":4304.93,"end":4324.907,"text":"所以各位如果要達成那個目標其實我一直在強調內閣制總統制我都尊重憲法學者意見都很多每個人都很專精地道我也沒意見但現在我們就不是所以我們現行的制度裡面在座的各位委員你們都可以很認真的去質詢部長行政院院長"},{"start":4325.908,"end":4351.24,"text":"那因為總統他就不是在我們現行的架構就不是美國的制度也不是其他的這個制度所以中華民國現行就是這個樣子所以憲法就是我們最基本的依歸嘛所以在這個情況底下我就很抱歉我不是要批評啦也不是說跟大家在那邊唱反調或者要惡意成口水之戰沒有我只是說明說我們都希望促成它所以不要再"},{"start":4352.458,"end":4361.315,"text":"你刻意就要違憲,然後刻意違憲就讓他弄不成因為我剛剛,嘉賓委員他本來三張已經退休了"},{"start":4362.372,"end":4383.561,"text":"那他堅持要來,我就一定要讓他講話,因為他對於憲法他研究很深入,而且他很堅持,不能違憲所以我也希望把他的意見,在我們民主金融黨黨團裡面不一樣的聲音,我也希望他來朝野協商裡面讓大家知道一下所以我們希望促成,又不希望違憲,我們希望讓總統來"},{"start":4385.402,"end":4398.97,"text":"呼應韓院長的講法,但不希望違憲所以我一直在一開始我就講大家不要刻意去一直在違憲的邊緣在那邊加碼這樣就最後又事情又做不成了嘛做不成大家又開始要罵,罵總統罵最好罵罵罵罵罵,罵到院長那裡去所以我的意思說,我希望他成功"},{"start":4408.636,"end":4434.347,"text":"所以時間抓了 譬如說好 兩個小時之內結束那結束如果院長說才是一個人五分鐘那就大概可以有多少人那我覺得以這個邏輯來看事情就比較容易能夠行得通謝謝 各黨黨幹部我想如果我們從頭到尾以兩個小時為計算說第一次國情報告的話首先總統做國情報告大概三十分鐘左右"},{"start":4435.367,"end":4461.477,"text":"那後續呢就變成我們委員各黨人推派的代表來發言那一個人如果以五分鐘的話呢可以接受度大概在12位左右因為後續還有第三部分總統還要再做說明那大概也再給他20到30分鐘所以總共大概在兩個小時所以這個人數呢我初步的建議你們可以修正沒有問題就是552就每一位委員五分鐘"},{"start":4462.642,"end":4485.597,"text":"那十二位委員正好是一個小時總統前面國軍報告三十分鐘一個小時各位委員提出各個不同的看法最後他再說明三十分鐘這樣就比較完整而且兩個小時內而且總統六十六歲了考慮他攝護線一個小時讓他休息總統要休息十分鐘"},{"start":4487.328,"end":4513.085,"text":"這樣子你看怎麼樣?552好嗎?那請問國民黨團這邊有沒有?沒有,你們可以變,沒有問題,不一定要我只是提出我的一個建議而已,我們都還沒有結論大家可以提出不同看法,請謝謝學院長,因為552基本上就一個小時嘛對,前面三十,前面三十幾分鐘後面還好,還有第二次,再說你後面還好"},{"start":4517.967,"end":4543.308,"text":"那個我們這個部分好不好我想院長有這樣的提議我們這個部分是不是先暫定如此啦好不好還是保有可以修正的沒有暫定我們要簽字啦如果我們打成協商就沒有暫定就定 不行我就休息五分鐘你們私底下再討論一下我們等一下再來沒問題這一定三部分都要講完了才能簽字啊對啊"},{"start":4544.568,"end":4567.694,"text":"第二部分訂的話第三部分他是根據各位所提出的問題加上他自己覺得他本人覺得還有其他地方重要的那他把它做說明這邊第三部分我們不需要幫他越組帶跑嘛我們現在最確定就是第二部分這一部分如果你們有意見我現在休息五分鐘大家私底下溝通沒問題"},{"start":4569.494,"end":4589.783,"text":"院長其實這個問題也不用私底下啦就是說有一些例可以參考啦剛剛院長提到了就是說差不多你倆兩兩千嘛你把它想我們這個都很輕鬆三個政黨包括院長大家都希望這件成就一件美事嘛你看那個川普"},{"start":4591.141,"end":4606.309,"text":"到國會去啊,隆重轉播時間,我剛才查一個小時39分32秒,川普從走進去到結束馬克宏一個小時30分鐘,那他們都抓一個半小時,可能川普比較多話,愛講話"},{"start":4608.23,"end":4624.107,"text":"如果國會外交到國會裡面去差不多40分鐘那如果我們是抓兩個小時那我們就比美國跟法國多長了差不多半個小時好事那這是好事因為要時間來分配嘛那我們也可以總統來了你不用講那麼久嘛"},{"start":4628.317,"end":4646.364,"text":"分配給 如果我們抓兩個小時的話這個時間跟國會來共用就是要邀請你來創造一個歷史跟國會之間大家更和氣的大家來聽聽看你的國政的一個方針然後聽聽各政黨提出他們希望"},{"start":4647.364,"end":4669.716,"text":"他們的國家的願景跟總統來做交流然後就像院長講的那總統再來說明那所以民進黨對於剛剛提到的我們在時間抓好的話三個五個七個我說實在話我沒有那麼堅持啦變成說這是好大家都希望這件事情可以把它成就一件美事嘛"},{"start":4671.121,"end":4699.274,"text":"那如果說這樣的話變成我們建請總統我們連時間都要把它畫得很清楚前面20分鐘總統做出國情說明後面我們可能要調為662因為多了10分鐘出來了嘛這個人662接下來總統再做說明連這個時間我想不用畫得這麼清楚嘛因為這個就變得很怪了嘛對不對而且顯得我們一點都不大氣所以我覺得552如果大家覺得國民黨團有意見那改為662我想這樣他總TOTAL兩個小時他"},{"start":4700.57,"end":4725.243,"text":"總統府一定知道嘛,他會根據這個來調,我們予以尊重那國民黨台如果是662,您看副總召林處理長徐...徐...徐真...有第二次讓總統講話的時間,恐怕會比較受限對,所以我的意思剛剛你的552,我剛剛計算了一下,我覺得552可能時間比較剛好"},{"start":4728.404,"end":4730.786,"text":"我們台灣民眾黨這邊是非常贊成因為對我們就比例來講我們真的也讓我們很有機會來對總統提出這樣一個分享那現在就看國民黨團這邊的看法"},{"start":4758.53,"end":4765.002,"text":"如果現在沒有辦法決定我們就休息一下可以決定我們現在就敲定就只有這個問題了好那我們休息五分鐘"},{"start":5811.691,"end":5832.681,"text":"好 謝謝各位黨團幹部的多人發言謝謝大家用心關於本次我們要探討的議題那顯然我們沒有辦法達成共識我想我們就持續溝通我們再擇期協商向各位黨團報告一下好嗎好 那非常感謝今天參與 好嗎 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:35:48.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:35:52.436000+08:00","text":"謝謝各位黨團幹部都已經到了，再一次向大家祝賀新年快樂。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:35:53.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:35:59.203000+08:00","text":"今天現場有老同學、有新同學、有轉學的同學，都有！","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:35:59.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:36:19.821000+08:00","text":"所以我想大家不見得全部都認識，容\n許我花一點點時間快速介紹一下：國民黨黨團傅總召，這個大家都知道了，掌聲；我們新任的\n國民黨黨團書記長林沛祥，林書記長，歡迎；以及新任的國民黨黨團首席副書記長許宇甄。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:36:22.122000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:36:37.536000+08:00","text":"新\n任的民進黨黨團總召蔡其昌蔡總召，回鍋的民進黨黨團幹事長莊瑞雄，新任的民進黨黨團書記\n長范雲，歡迎您。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:36:37.856000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:36:52.276000+08:00","text":"台灣民眾黨黨團新任的轉學同學陳清龍陳總召，歡迎；王安祥副總召，歡迎\n您；邱慧洳幹事長，熱情歡迎。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:36:53.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:36:59.262000+08:00","text":"還有民進黨黨團今天剛卸任的鍾佳濱委員、陳培瑜委員，一併\n歡迎。謝謝！","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:36:59.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:37:28.419000+08:00","text":"今天主要拜託各位黨團幹部來討論的就是上午院會我們通過了協商結論，進行總統國情報告\n的協商，也跟大家特別報告一下，上會期我們有通過一個建請案，請總統至本院進行國情報告\n，有關總統府秘書長對該案之函復，已經列入上午的報告事項，院會的決定是交付由黨團協商\n會議處理，所以我們現在就進行本案的協商。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:37:29.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:38:05.166000+08:00","text":"今天上午在溝通議程的時候，也有黨團幹部提到有關總統國情報告的日期、問答的方式等要\n進行溝通，本院聽取總統國情報告是憲政重要事項，基於總統昨日上午在茶敘中提到化誤解為\n理解，我們今天就針對國情報告一案先進行溝通，等到我們達到一定共識之後，再請總統府問\n相關決定是否接受，我們再來處理後續的事宜。","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:38:05.726000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:38:10.689000+08:00","text":"現在我們就請各黨團來表示意見，國民黨團請表達意見好嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:38:10.689000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:38:10.709000+08:00","text":"民進黨團……","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-02-24T16:38:10.709000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-02-24T16:38:13.384333+08:00","text":"讓傅總召……","quality":0},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-02-24T16:38:13.384333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-02-24T16:38:16.059667+08:00","text":"新來的先。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-02-24T16:38:16.059667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-02-24T16:38:18.735000+08:00","text":"沒有啦！總召……","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:38:18.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:38:19.756000+08:00","text":"那我們請陳清龍總召發言，好不好？好。好。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-02-24T16:38:24.851000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:38:27.812000+08:00","text":"那我就恭敬不如從命。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-02-24T16:38:30.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:39:17.095000+08:00","text":"有關立法院建請總統到立法院做國情報告，其實這個案子是台灣民眾黨提出，也謝謝中國國\n民黨黨團協助，才會有這樣一個決議，立法院也在 2 月 11 號收到總統府秘書長的函復，也經過\n我們韓院長在總統府的茶敘確定賴清德總統要到立法院做國情報告。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-02-24T16:39:18.256000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:40:00.815000+08:00","text":"台灣民眾黨在這邊最主要\n協 2\n第一個希望能夠確認賴清德總統到立法院的國情報告內容，我想這個內容包括軍購，針對軍購\n，賴總統直接投書到媒體，跳過行政院，賴清德總統也在總統府針對軍購開了記者會，我覺得\n他到民意最高殿堂立法院報告軍購內容是我們一定要要求的。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-02-24T16:40:01.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:40:35.630000+08:00","text":"第二個當然就是臺美貿易協定，\n也是我們要求的內容之一，不管行政院認為這個關稅協定是行政院的職責，但是賴總統曾多次\n對關稅協定下了指導棋，所以台灣民眾黨黨團對這個貿易協定的內容，也要求一定要在報告的\n內容之內。","quality":0.916},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-02-24T16:40:35.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:41:17.367000+08:00","text":"另外，賴清德總統應該是第一位不公布經過立法院三讀通過法律案的總統，行政院\n不副署，對於這樣一個破壞憲政的狀況，我們也建議、要求賴總統把它列為國情報告的內容，\n因為這牽涉到我們立法院的尊嚴還有權益。","quality":0.809},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-02-24T16:41:18.388000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:41:25.693000+08:00","text":"以上針對國情報告的內容，台灣民眾黨黨團先行提\n出，謝謝。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:41:25.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:41:28.736000+08:00","text":"謝謝陳總召的發言，蔡總召、傅總召哪一位要第二位發言？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:41:31.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:41:32.351000+08:00","text":"蔡總召請發言。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-02-24T16:41:36.234000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:42:33.519000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長，立法院的各位同仁，今天本席第一次坐在這個位置，我想總統到立法院做\n國情報告，這不是新聞，過去多多少少在朝在野的委員都做過這樣的提案，但它所涉及的最根\n本、最核心的問題在於它不能夠違憲，因為有些委員會自己加碼，就是國情報告是不違憲的，\n總統本來根據相關的法規、憲法來立法院做國情報告，這沒有問題，但因為立法院的同仁過去\n都曾經出現加碼的狀況，譬如要求比照行政院院長的方式作相關的質詢，因為這涉及違憲，所\n以後來都沒有辦法成行。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-02-24T16:42:35.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:43:35.005000+08:00","text":"過去民進黨也在野過，以上的情況都發生過，所以，在這樣的前提底\n下，今天我們來討論這個問題，我想還是要謝謝韓院長，因為韓院長在新春茶會裡面跟總統提\n到這個事情，以我的理解，總統對韓院長的意見相當重視，也對韓院長表達尊重，更重要的是\n總統很希望透過這個國情報告，可以促進朝野更進一步把國家最重要的問題趕快來解決，這是\n人民所企盼的，從總預算到軍購案，一直到臺美的關稅問題，這些都是中華民國重中之重的事\n情，因為如此，賴總統願意在韓院長的建議底下釋出善意。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-02-24T16:43:35.846000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:44:08.378000+08:00","text":"所以今天民進黨黨團在這裡也會清\n楚的表達，對於賴總統來立法院做國情報告，基本上我們是支持的，但是我們還是要再強調，\n希望大家在遵守憲法跟相關法規的規定底下來促成這個事情，講白話就是大家要把事情做好啦\n，如果加碼在那邊說一些違憲的，這樣事情就辦不成了，也辜負了韓院長的一番好意。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-02-24T16:44:09.158000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:44:59.430000+08:00","text":"所以民\n進黨黨團很願意來促成這個事情，我來之前也跟府方作過初步的聯繫，賴總統還是秉持著跟韓\n院長的談話，很願意來立法院做國情報告，而且委員在國情報告結束之後如果有任何的想法要\n跟總統分享，總統也願意留下來聽大家的聲音，但是名稱上可能韓院長所提「統問統答」四個\n字還是有違憲的爭議，關於形式的內容，他很願意在不違憲的情況底下，都遵照韓院長所提的\n方式，他願意留下來聽，聽完之後他也願意再作第二次的發言。","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-02-24T16:45:00.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:45:35.152000+08:00","text":"我想這個精神是韓院長訂下來\n、韓院長提出來的，民進黨黨團很願意支持這樣的一個想法，國家才能夠往前走，可不可以由\n總統來立法院做國情報告之後，朝野大家可以有一個新的開始，能夠讓國家的這些關鍵問題趕\n快解決，我大概表達初步的這樣一個想法，謝謝。","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:45:35.152000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-02-24T16:45:36.152000+08:00","text":"謝謝，民進黨黨團蔡總召講得也是非常清楚。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:45:36.152000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-02-24T16:45:37.152000+08:00","text":"現在請國民黨黨團傅總召，請表達意見。","quality":0},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-02-24T16:45:35.152000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:45:35.332000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-02-24T16:45:35.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:45:47.984000+08:00","text":"感謝院長，在開春希望大家能夠一切順順利利、圓圓滿滿，所以您的呼籲\n協 3\n，國民黨一一都接受也尊重。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-02-24T16:45:49.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:46:05.247000+08:00","text":"對於賴總統是不是有機會成為中華民國第一個到立法院做國情報\n告的總統，這是歷史的里程碑，我們大家都會很慎重。","quality":1},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-02-24T16:46:11.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:46:27.700000+08:00","text":"讓全國國人了解總統希望迫切解決的國\n家問題是什麼、他的想法是什麼、他想提出的具體作法是什麼，我想人民都很願意傾聽。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-02-24T16:46:30.178000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:46:49.711000+08:00","text":"其實\n國家的總統就是國家的大家長，很多事情在國會可以溝通、對人民都可以溝通，因為畢竟立法\n院就代表 2,300萬所有基層的民意所選出來的人、是全覆蓋的民意在這裡。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-02-24T16:46:52.093000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:47:09.740000+08:00","text":"誠如美國最高法院所作的判決，川普大帝任何的施政也必須符合法律行為，更需要有國會的\n授權。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-02-24T16:47:09.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:47:52.810000+08:00","text":"所以我們在這裡要特別強調，我們非常歡迎賴總統能夠到國會來，也成為一個寫歷史的\n人，倒是覺得大家不要把很多的框架、設限在那裡，如果今天我們還是要走回到過去的老路，\n在國內可以溝通但沒有溝通，要用國際投書的方式，其實國內已經有很多發聲的管道，更可以\n到立法院來直接告訴全國國人。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-02-24T16:47:55.931000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:48:13.124000+08:00","text":"當然執政者跟在野者，我想民進黨也在野過，過去在野對執政\n的總統要來國情報告也提出了相當多寶貴的看法，我們都記得非常清楚。","quality":1},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-02-24T16:48:14.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:48:45.544000+08:00","text":"後來再想當時為什麼\n民進黨在野的時候會提出這樣的看法跟想法，無非就是讓他們秉承的民意能夠澈底、有機會能\n了解總統想怎麼做，他們都代表人民提出相關的問題，也希望總統能夠解惑釋疑，讓大家能夠\n了解，我想這個完完全全有別於在總統府開記者會。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-02-24T16:48:45.544000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:49:23.846000+08:00","text":"所以我們覺得這個方式不要太拘泥，要真正能夠解決問題，讓大家能夠充分了解，我想這才\n是對於賴總統的歷史定位會有非常高的一個評價，我們今天的討論，現在只是第一輪討論，我\n們希望在不要有任何框架、設限的情況之下，能夠好好地、充分地把大家的想法講一下。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-02-24T16:49:24.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:49:51.394000+08:00","text":"我想第一輪的第一次發言國民黨講得很清楚，希望不要在設限的情況之下，總統能夠到國會\n，不只跟人民做國情報告，對各個政黨提出的問題也能有一個清晰明白的回答，讓全國國人能\n夠了解，謝謝。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:49:51.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:49:59.260000+08:00","text":"三個黨團委員第一輪都已經發言完畢，大家的基本立場都表達了，台灣民眾黨黨團講得非常\n清楚，就是希望針對軍購、關稅這些重要問題，賴總統必須要報告。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:50:02.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:50:08.797000+08:00","text":"民進黨黨團蔡總召也講得\n非常清楚，要符合憲政的慣例，不能侵犯到行政院長的權責，這一點非常清楚。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:50:09.477000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:50:19.184000+08:00","text":"國民黨黨團是\n不拘泥、不框架，但是針對國情報告完畢之後，對於所有委員所提的問題也希望總統能夠答復\n。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:50:19.885000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:50:33.585000+08:00","text":"這裡面我們要思考一個問題，說得好，這是 100 與 0 的問題，如果我們今天達成共識，總統\n來了，我們就成功了；如果我們沒有辦法達成共識，我們就變成 0分，又是虛晃一招。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:50:34.786000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:50:44.271000+08:00","text":"我們要考量的是，總統來了，國人及立法委員本身有很多問題急切地需要了解，明年總統會\n不會來？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:50:44.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:50:44.471000+08:00","text":"不知道！","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:50:45.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:50:46.691000+08:00","text":"下一任總統會不會來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:50:46.691000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:50:47.072000+08:00","text":"也不知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:50:47.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:50:59.216000+08:00","text":"但是我們在場的委員加上總統一起開創一\n個新局，起碼成立一個典範，我覺得這是 100 跟 0，所以我非常希望大家能夠達成一個共識。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:51:01.848000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:51:16.231000+08:00","text":"其\n中要尊重蔡總召所講的，就是不能侵犯到行政院長備詢的慣例，因為他來畢竟不是行政院長被\n我們一問一答、，所以我昨天離開時卓榮泰院長講的也很有意思，他說：「一問一答，交給我\n，放心！","quality":0.805},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:51:16.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:51:23.733000+08:00","text":"韓院長，一問一答交給我」，因為他是行政院長，所以顯然一問一答這個形式是行政\n院跟立法院的互動。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:51:23.893000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:51:43.692000+08:00","text":"總統國情報告完畢之後，針對各位委員所提的第二個部分，第二個 part 就\n是委員提出一些問題，各黨團派幾位代表提完，第三個 part 總統說明完，我們就很漂亮一個\nending，創下一個先例，這是我希望能夠促成的一個方法及想法。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:51:44.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:51:45.093000+08:00","text":"協 4\n第二輪發言，我們請莊瑞雄委員。謝謝……","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:51:51.493000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:52:00.462000+08:00","text":"現在先發一個總統府潘秘書長的來文，先把它發下去之後，再請莊瑞雄幹事長發言，比較可\n以聚焦，可以根據這個文發言，莊瑞雄幹事長請發言。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-02-24T16:52:54.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:52:55.575000+08:00","text":"謝謝韓院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-02-24T16:52:56.516000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:53:33.781000+08:00","text":"先感謝韓院長在茶會裡面提出來以後，我相信各個政黨、朝野之間都希\n望總統有機會到立法院來做國情報告，其實任何人都可以到國會來，最難到國會的人就叫做總\n統，也不是總統想來就可以來，按照立法院職權行使法的規定，總統要進來立法院，還要我們\n四分之一提案及院會決議邀請總統到立法院來報告，他才可以到國會裡面來報告。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-02-24T16:53:35.282000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:53:43.846000+08:00","text":"憲法增修條\n文第四條第三項的規定是立法院在每年集會的時候，得聽取總統的國情報告。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-02-24T16:53:44.666000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:54:03.155000+08:00","text":"是來聽取總統的\n國情報告，剛剛台灣民眾黨的講法，其實談了一些，也很具體，就是軍購還有整個臺美協議，\n或是立法院的這些狀況確實是國家的大事。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-02-24T16:54:04.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:54:23.427000+08:00","text":"我相信這些大事在整個國政方針裡面，總統他國情\n報告完以後，聽到各個黨團講的話，我相信重大的事情他會列入考慮，總統的腦袋不會長得跟\n大家不一樣，大家都認為很重要的，他認為不重要，我相信也不至於。","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-02-24T16:54:24.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:54:37.136000+08:00","text":"但重點是，如果你們說\n我就是要來拘束你，總統到立法院必須要講些什麼，那這樣和憲法的規定又不符合，就是說總\n統這次是受邀而來。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-02-24T16:54:41.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:54:48.567000+08:00","text":"大家看到 113年憲判字第 9號為什麼會被憲法法庭宣告成違憲？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-02-24T16:54:48.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:54:50.689000+08:00","text":"就是跟憲法\n的設計有所不同。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-02-24T16:54:51.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:55:09.482000+08:00","text":"我聽到韓院長提出這樣一個建議的時候，第一個是非常開心，第二個，在我\n腦海裡面浮現的是美國總統到國會去發表演說、法國總統到國會去發表演說。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-02-24T16:55:09.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:55:14.165000+08:00","text":"為什麼在我腦海\n浮起的是美國和法國，而不是日本或其他內閣制國家？","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-02-24T16:55:14.385000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:55:18.767000+08:00","text":"因為顯然我們現在不是內閣制的國家，\n而是比較傾向總統制的國家。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-02-24T16:55:19.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:55:31.857000+08:00","text":"美國總統是講完走人，法國總統去發表演說（就是國情咨文），\n講完以後，愛討論你們國會自己去討論，他也走人。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-02-24T16:55:32.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:55:41.101000+08:00","text":"可是以現在這樣的方式，你說完全是仿照\n美國和法國，在我們這個國家裡面似乎又覺得沒意思了。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-02-24T16:55:42.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:55:45.564000+08:00","text":"如果總統永遠沒辦法走進國會就可惜\n了！","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-02-24T16:55:46.884000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:55:55.355000+08:00","text":"就國家的施政方針跟在野黨之間大家來一個互動，聽取這樣一個報告是好事。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-02-24T16:55:56.576000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:56:11.128000+08:00","text":"剛剛韓院長提到的我更開心，就是總統報告完以後，在野黨或者朝野政黨的國會議員來跟總\n統提出一些建言，剛剛韓院長的用語是「總統再來說明」，棒！","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-02-24T16:56:14.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:56:28.919000+08:00","text":"我沒有想到今天韓院長帶領大\n家一起來守護這個憲法，在這個憲法的規範底下，大家來做一個運作，讓總統有機會到國會裡\n面來做這樣的一個國情報告。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-02-24T16:56:29.379000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:56:33.781000+08:00","text":"我相信大家的目的都是希望來達成，這是美事一樁！","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-02-24T16:56:35.662000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:56:45.667000+08:00","text":"枝枝節節的事情其實我是覺得，因為今天要「拜天公」，「拜天公」最大的禁忌就是不要「\n講歹話」，大家都講好話，也不要動怒，這樣連天公聽了都高興。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-02-24T16:56:45.808000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:56:47.168000+08:00","text":"如果有辦法成局的話，今天\n對韓院長真的是不給你多按一點讚都不行！","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:57:00.984000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:57:01.464000+08:00","text":"謝謝莊瑞雄委員。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:57:01.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:57:02.665000+08:00","text":"台灣民眾黨要二輪發言嗎？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:57:05.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:57:08.311000+08:00","text":"請王委員。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-02-24T16:57:08.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:57:15.258000+08:00","text":"我們第一次來，發現自己正在寫歷史，所以這是好兆頭。","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-02-24T16:57:15.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:57:29.888000+08:00","text":"順著剛剛前面不管是國民黨或民進黨的一些意見，因為從前幾天的報導來看，就知道賴總統\n傾向可以有類似這種所謂「統問統答」的方式。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-02-24T16:57:32.689000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:57:37.272000+08:00","text":"剛剛蔡總召也講過，就是避開這種「問」或者\n是「答」的概念，也許就可以成立。","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-02-24T16:57:38.012000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:57:43.113000+08:00","text":"所以基本上我們是不是可以初步得到一個共識，就是一個\n協 5\n「諮詢」的概念？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-02-24T16:57:44.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:57:49.074000+08:00","text":"剛剛韓院長也用了一個很好的 term，就是「說明」，這樣就避開了那幾個字\n。","quality":0.742},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-02-24T16:57:49.954000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:58:04.997000+08:00","text":"看起來應該是沒有什麼太大的爭議，也就是說，立法委員、立法院這邊還是可以提出一些諮\n詢，也希望總統在聽取這些諮詢之後能夠給予一些說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-02-24T16:58:05.577000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:58:06.877000+08:00","text":"我的意見大概是這樣。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:58:09.016000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:58:09.217000+08:00","text":"謝謝王委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:58:09.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:58:09.478000+08:00","text":"請國民黨黨團二輪發言。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T16:58:09.638000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:58:09.819000+08:00","text":"林沛祥書記長，請。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-02-24T16:58:16.153000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:58:16.673000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-02-24T16:58:16.673000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:58:23.518000+08:00","text":"沒有錯，我們現在正在寫歷史，畢竟國情報告在中華民國憲政史上是第一\n次。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-02-24T16:58:25.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:59:13.638000+08:00","text":"但老實說，我會認為，因為目前的世界局勢也是特別詭譎多變，不管是我們忽然有這些軍\n購的問題也好，還是臺美關稅也好，還是說我們現在看到很多訊息，基本上我們現在看到的訊\n息都需要一個答案，我們都期待能有更明確的一些……\n不管是身為立法委員，還是身為中華民國的國民，我們都期待能有一定程度的答案去解惑，\n而且我們想知道的是，從去年 4 月份以來，有很多東西不只是身為國會議員，而是身為一個公\n民、身為一個知識分子，都有很多東西需要去瞭解。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-02-24T16:59:14.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:59:29.713000+08:00","text":"但是我們就很期待，瞭解這一切應該是我\n們的國家領導人來跟我們解惑，所以當聽到總統有機會來做國情報告的時候，我們會期待我們\n想要解惑的到底是什麼。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-02-24T16:59:30.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T16:59:35.576000+08:00","text":"當然，我們現在遇到三大問題：關稅、對美投資、軍購。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-02-24T16:59:37.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:00:16.814000+08:00","text":"沒有錯，我們對所有的事情都不設\n限，但是以我們的求知慾，我們希望身為一個國會議員也好，身為一個知識分子也好，我們需\n要獲得滿足，而且我們的民眾、這 2,300 萬人對於目前整個國家的狀況也需要獲得一個瞭解，尤\n其是我們現在看到的軍購案，軍購案裡面，對於我們而言，不是只有單純的國際局勢變化而已\n，而是更現實的，我們也很清楚地知道這個軍購案對我們整個國家未來的總預算、未來幾年之\n間的總預算，甚至影響可能長達 10 年之久的總預算，未來到底是怎麼樣？","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-02-24T17:00:16.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:00:25.202000+08:00","text":"我們期待知道，我們\n期待聽到從國家領導人口中給我們一個正確的訊息，我想這一點來講是國民黨黨團希望能夠得\n到的。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:00:30.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:00:31.223000+08:00","text":"謝謝林沛祥委員發言。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:00:31.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:00:36.527000+08:00","text":"各位黨團幹部，容許我把它分為三個部分，看看是不是我們已經達成共識了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:00:36.747000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:00:50.956000+08:00","text":"第一個部分就\n是總統來立法院做國情報告；第二個 part 是各政黨推出代表來諮詢總統；第三個 part 是總統針\n對各政黨委員所關切的提出說明。","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:00:51.637000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:00:54.639000+08:00","text":"像這樣三個 part可以不可以？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:00:54.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:00:58.462000+08:00","text":"如果大家同意這三個 part，我們\n就開始來研究這三個 part。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:00:58.462000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-02-24T17:01:02.051000+08:00","text":"請鍾佳濱委員。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:01:02.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:01:12.560000+08:00","text":"我非常認同院長這樣的描述，只是因為我們立法委員自己法制局印的說明，我們要注\n意不要踩雷。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:01:13.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:01:17.304000+08:00","text":"考試的時候，要得的分數，我們都要拿，但是不要踩到雷被扣分。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:01:18.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:01:31.557000+08:00","text":"剛剛院長講那\n個部分，容許我用我們立法院法制局提供的法條稍微做一些修整，讓它更順，不會造成外界認\n為立法院自己沒有合法合憲。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:01:31.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:01:35.961000+08:00","text":"首先，這個彩色版的部分是不是我也拿給院長看一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:01:37.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:01:50.013000+08:00","text":"這是我們在立法委員手冊，法制局印\n的，有關於立法院職權行使法當中被宣告違憲的部分，我們把它整理、放大，各位手上都有一\n份。","quality":0.83},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:01:50.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:01:52.935000+08:00","text":"這本冊子大家可以跟法制局拿，只是字很小。","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:01:54.434000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:02:13.449000+08:00","text":"我可以來說明一下，目前我們小心不要去踩\n協 6\n雷的，這裡面憲判的主文有提到總統是否何時以何等方式到立法院聽取其國情報告，是否國情\n報告的主題跟涵蓋範圍是總統本於自己的權責來決定？","quality":0.988},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:02:14.110000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:02:17.453000+08:00","text":"大家互相尊重，這是 OK的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:02:18.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:02:26.261000+08:00","text":"但是要小心\n，它說立法院沒有指定國情報告內容之權，所以我們不要去指定，大家認為重要的，總統一定\n會講。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:02:26.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:02:35.948000+08:00","text":"第二個，也無就其國情報告的內容對總統詢問，要求總統答復，或要求總統聽取建言之\n權，這裡面我們就避開幾個，我們不要去說「詢問」或者要求總統答復，總統也不是「答復」\n，我們是建言，還是我們表達看法？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:02:35.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:02:36.868000+08:00","text":"照它說的，也沒有要求總統聽取建言的權利。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:02:36.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:02:38.708000+08:00","text":"所以我是不\n是建議我們就避開什麼建言、詢答、答復，通通不要用這些字眼？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:03:01.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:03:29.737000+08:00","text":"容我這裡來做一個剛剛院長的描述，就是總統來做國情報告，沒有人規定總統只能講一次，\n所以他可以先講第一次，稍後再做第二次的補充，我想這個部分完全不會踩到憲判的內容，至\n於第一次跟第二次的補充之間，我們國會委員、各黨團想要表達看法，當然是我們的權利。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:03:30.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:03:42.866000+08:00","text":"所\n以我是建議就用剛剛院長所講的這個部分，我們在對外表述的時候，或者我們要行之於明文的\n時候，避開大法官憲判所說不可以有違憲的部分。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:03:43.626000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:04:01.651000+08:00","text":"最後也容我……不好意思，上次也跟院長請託了，現在增修條文的沿革從 1994 年到 2000 年\n、到 2005 年，總統國情報告歷經了幾個階段，容許我用很短的時間跟大家報告。","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:04:02.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:04:22.498000+08:00","text":"在 1994 年的\n時候，那時候國民大會修改增修條文，準備 1996 年總統直選，大家知道在 1994 年之前，國民\n大會是選總統的，六年集會一次，集會那一次就是投票選總統，當我們把總統改成直選之後，\n國民大會留著要做什麼事情？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:04:23.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:04:36.935000+08:00","text":"要每年集會，所以在 1994 年的時候，增修條文就跑出了一條：「\n國民大會集會時，得聽取總統國情報告，並檢討國是，提供建言」，總共 18 個字，「得聽取總\n統國情報告」9 個字，以及「並檢討國是，提供建言」。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:04:47.763000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:05:05.036000+08:00","text":"因為這樣修憲的關係，國民大會從單純\n的選總統，多了每年可以集會，聽取直選後的總統來跟他們做國情報告，而且國民大會還可以\n檢討國是，因為國民大會沒有立法權，它怎麼表達對國是的看法？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:05:05.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:05:05.817000+08:00","text":"就那麼一年一次。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:05:08.659000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:05:09.099000+08:00","text":"檢討國是\n，提供建言，那麼總統幹嘛？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:05:09.219000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:05:09.580000+08:00","text":"總統在臺下聽。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:05:09.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:05:18.948000+08:00","text":"因為我曾經做過，不是做總統，我曾經做過國大\n代表，在李前總統時是這樣做的。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:05:19.628000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:05:36.164000+08:00","text":"但是憲法的沿革在 2000 年、第六次修憲時產生一個變化，國民大會沒有了，國民大會聽取總\n統國情報告、提供建言的事情變成什麼？","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:05:36.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:05:48.146000+08:00","text":"變成憲法增修條文第四條第三項，就只有幾個字：「\n立法院於每年集會時，」然後 9 個字：「得聽取總統國情報告」，沒有了！","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:05:48.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:05:53.026000+08:00","text":"為什麼「檢討國是\n，提供建言」不見了呢？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:05:53.846000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:06:10.412000+08:00","text":"因為當時修憲時，認為「並檢討國是，提供建言」立法院不需要，因\n為立法院每個會期都會和行政院進行施政總質詢，所以不需要再跟總統進行「檢討國是，提供\n建言」，要提供建言，平常就可以了。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:06:10.952000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:06:29.896000+08:00","text":"所以如果從法律的沿革來看，本來有這 9 個字，還可以「檢討國是，提供建言」，後來立法\n院繼承了聽取國情報告的權力時，沒有了這 9 個字，連「檢討國是，提供建言」都不適合在這\n裡面表達。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:06:29.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:06:40.422000+08:00","text":"所以我是建議剛剛院長講的那個部分，第一 part：總統發表國情報告；第三 part：總\n統再補充他的國情報告。","quality":0.723},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:06:41.242000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:07:05.545000+08:00","text":"而在第一 part 跟第三 part 之間，我們委員、各黨團在限定的時間、限\n定的人次下，表達我們的看法，也不要說提供建言，也不要說檢討國是，就是表達我們各委員\n或各黨團的看法，這樣的話，接下來的討論就聚焦在哪裡？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:07:05.545000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:07:08.909000+08:00","text":"聚焦在第二 part 要多少時間、多少\n協 7\n人次。","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:07:09.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:07:09.710000+08:00","text":"以上建議，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:07:11.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:07:12.513000+08:00","text":"謝謝鍾佳濱委員的補充發言。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:07:12.713000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:07:14.474000+08:00","text":"還有哪位黨團幹部要補充發言？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:07:15.474000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:07:36.684000+08:00","text":"這三個 part，如果各位同意的話，第一階段就是國情報告；第\n二階段就是各黨團大家推派幾位代表，然後把你們的憂慮、你們的關切、甚至你們的懷疑講出\n來；第三 part，總統再做一個收尾來答復，我想這樣我們就寫下一個從來沒有發生過、第一次的\n歷史事件。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:07:37.544000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:07:38.685000+08:00","text":"請問大家有沒有什麼看法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:07:39.245000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:07:45.728000+08:00","text":"如果沒有，我們就來討論第二個 part，就是各黨團推派幾\n位來提。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:07:48.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:07:49.790000+08:00","text":"現在我們就進入第二個部分，好不好？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:07:52.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:07:55.693000+08:00","text":"國民黨黨團傅總召，你覺得每個黨團幾位委員比較適\n合？","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-02-24T17:07:55.693000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-02-24T17:08:09.283000+08:00","text":"尊重小黨團的意見。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-02-24T17:08:09.283000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:08:35.610000+08:00","text":"關於那個方法我想補充一下，因為聽起來好像民主進步黨對於問跟答這樣的字眼感受\n到比較敏感、比較忌諱，我們理解，所以才採取一個折衷方案，之前傳統的模式我們就有討論\n到統問統答、即問即答，因為這兩個模式都有個「問」字，也有個「答」字，聽起來好像有點\n牴觸到你們的慎重原則，感覺你們聽到這個也比較敏感。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-02-24T17:08:51.917000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:09:09.233000+08:00","text":"其實不管是統問統答或者即問即答，\n其實我們求的都是一個實問實答，雖然實問實答裡頭也有你們比較忌諱的問跟答，可是就像鍾\n佳濱委員說的，我們要求的就是一個實質的回答……","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-02-24T17:09:12.897000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:09:13.899000+08:00","text":"實質的對話。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-02-24T17:09:13.899000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-02-24T17:09:14.899000+08:00","text":"對，實質的對話。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-02-24T17:09:14.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:09:44.214000+08:00","text":"現在大家對於問跟答這兩個字比較敏感，而我現在聽起來，以立委\n的角度來看，就用「提供看法」取代「問」，然後以總統的角度，就用「說明」取代「答」，\n用比較有一點包裝的方式進行，這是我理解到的。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-02-24T17:09:45.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:09:51.899000+08:00","text":"我想我們民眾黨要求的就是實問實答，希望\n總統能夠針對問題給我們一個實質的回復，以上說明，謝謝。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-02-24T17:09:51.899000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:09:52.459000+08:00","text":"我們建議 2位，好不好？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-02-24T17:09:52.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:09:53.880000+08:00","text":"就回答剛剛主席的問題，我們建議是 2位。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:09:54.421000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:09:54.521000+08:00","text":"每個黨團 2 位，2、2、2。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:10:12.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:10:21.679000+08:00","text":"我還要徵詢一下國民黨黨團跟民進黨黨團，不好意思，台灣民眾\n黨團希望 2、2、2，國民黨黨團請表達意見。","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-02-24T17:10:22.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:10:32.535000+08:00","text":"基本上因為過去還是有一定的比例，我們的制度還是要……因為剛剛一直在強調制度\n嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-02-24T17:10:34.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:11:06.113000+08:00","text":"早上我在質詢的時候，院長也說制度很重要，所以我想這個部分，因為我們先尊重民眾黨\n，民眾黨提出的是 2位，我覺得他提的 2位是代表民眾黨希望有 2位上場，不是說各政黨都是 2\n位，所以民進黨接口接得很快，這是他們慣用的手法，突然就失憶了，忘了我們過去的遊戲規\n則。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-02-24T17:11:06.793000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:11:19.288000+08:00","text":"這個部分我想民眾黨要 2 位，我覺得我們都可以尊重，其他的話，因為過去不是 7、7、1，\n就是 9、9、2，我想 9、9、2的部分，應該是會比較適合啦！","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:11:19.288000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-02-24T17:11:24.104500+08:00","text":"你已經講出來了，沒問題，9、9、2這是國民黨團所提的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:11:24.104500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-02-24T17:11:28.921000+08:00","text":"蔡總召請。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-02-24T17:11:28.921000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:11:35.908000+08:00","text":"我不知道過去是指哪一次，不知道哪一個總統有來立法院做過國情報告，所以我也不\n協 8\n知道哪一個是 9、9、2。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-02-24T17:11:39.871000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:11:42.995000+08:00","text":"其實算一算，邏輯很簡單啦！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-02-24T17:11:42.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:12:02.129000+08:00","text":"如果我們總統大概報告個三、四十分鐘，\n跟院長的時間應該都很接近，我們其他各個委員 2、2、2 或者 3、3、1，因為過去……你們要 2\n個 2、2 我們是沒意見啦！","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-02-24T17:12:02.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:12:15.454000+08:00","text":"但如果今天依照慣例，行政院在過去我們分配各個政黨發言的時候，\n3、3、1 是最長的，2、2、1 也有啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-02-24T17:12:15.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:12:21.237000+08:00","text":"就看院長跟大家怎麼共同協商，這個沒有叫做規矩，就看\n大家怎麼協商。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-02-24T17:12:23.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:12:27.719000+08:00","text":"如果我們以時間來算，我不知道一個委員要讓他講多久，院長？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-02-24T17:12:29.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:12:29.681000+08:00","text":"對，5 分鐘嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-02-24T17:12:30.121000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:12:43.375000+08:00","text":"所以如果一個委員講 5 分鐘，大概 2 個小時以內一定要把它結束掉，所以用這樣回過頭來推，\n大概我們就可以知道怎麼樣的分配比較合理。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-02-24T17:12:44.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:13:09.749000+08:00","text":"我再強調一次，站在民進黨團的立場，我們是希望促成在這個憲法的時刻，讓總統第一次到\n立法院來國情報告，總統來這裡更重要的是希望總統用他的誠意行動配合院長的主張，把一些\n爭議親自跟大家做一個說明，叫做國情報告。","quality":0.989},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-02-24T17:13:11.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:13:26.881000+08:00","text":"我們的體制不是總統制，所以各位如果要達成那\n個目標，其實我一直在強調，內閣制、總統制我都尊重，憲法學者意見都很多，每個人都很專\n精地道，我也沒意見，但現在我們就不是嘛！","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-02-24T17:13:27.722000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:13:46.453000+08:00","text":"所以我們現行的制度裡面，在座的各位委員你們\n都可以很認真去質詢部長、行政院院長，但因為總統在我們現行的架構就不是美國的制度，也\n不是其他的制度，中華民國現行就是這個樣子，所以憲法就是我們最基本的依歸嘛！","quality":0.989},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-02-24T17:13:47.234000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:14:04.504000+08:00","text":"在這個情況底下，我就很抱歉，我不是要批評，也不是跟大家在那邊唱反調，或者要惡意逞\n口水之戰，沒有，我只是說明我們都希望促成它，所以不要說你刻意就要違憲，然後刻意違憲\n就讓它弄不成。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-02-24T17:14:07.549000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:14:28.940000+08:00","text":"佳濱委員他本來三長已經退休了，他堅持要來，我就一定要讓他講話，因為他\n對於憲法的研究很深入，而且他很堅持不能違憲，所以我也希望把他的意見……在我們民主進\n步黨黨團裡面有不一樣的聲音，我也希望他來朝野協商裡面讓大家知道一下。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-02-24T17:14:29.540000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:14:37.464000+08:00","text":"所以我們希望促\n成，又不希望違憲，我們希望讓總統來，呼應韓院長的講法，但不希望違憲。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-02-24T17:14:37.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:14:46.509000+08:00","text":"所以我一開始就\n講，大家不要刻意一直在違憲的邊緣加碼，這樣最後事情又做不成了，做不成大家又開始罵，\n除了罵總統，罵、罵、罵，最後也是罵到院長那裡去。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-02-24T17:14:47.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:15:13.543000+08:00","text":"我的意思是說，我希望它成功，所以譬\n如說時間抓 2 個小時之內結束，如果院長裁示 1 個人 5 分鐘，大概就可以有多少人發言，我覺\n得以這個邏輯來看，事情就比較容易能夠行得通，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:15:13.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:15:42.934000+08:00","text":"各黨團幹部，如果我們從頭到尾以兩個小時來做第一次國情報告的話，首先，總統做\n國情報告大概 30 分鐘左右，後續就變成我們各黨團推派的代表、委員來發言，1 個人如果以 5\n分鐘計算的話，大概可以接受 12 位左右的發言，因為後續還有第三部分，就是總統還要再做說\n明，大概也只給他 20 到 30 分鐘，總共大概是兩個小時。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:15:42.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:15:55.004000+08:00","text":"所以人數的部分就我初步的建議，你\n們待會可以修正，沒有問題，就是 5、5、2，就是每一位委員 5 分鐘，12 位委員正好是 1 個小\n時。","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:15:55.004000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:16:08.313000+08:00","text":"總統前面國情報告 30 分鐘；接著 1 個小時讓各位委員提出各個不同的看法；最後他再說明\n30分鐘，這樣就比較完整，也就是在 2個小時內。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:16:08.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:16:18.849000+08:00","text":"而且總統 66歲了，要考慮到他的攝護腺，所\n以在 1 個小時後，讓總統休息 10 分鐘，這樣子大家看怎麼樣呢？5、5、2，好嗎？","quality":0.683},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:16:19.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:16:20.090000+08:00","text":"請問國民黨\n黨團有沒有意見？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:16:20.931000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:16:27.855000+08:00","text":"你們可以改變，沒有問題，不一定要採納我的，我只是提出一個建議而已，\n我們都還沒有結論，大家可以提出不同看法。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:16:27.855000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-02-24T17:16:28.855000+08:00","text":"請傅總召。協 9","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-02-24T17:16:27.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:16:32.879000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長，因為 5、5、2基本上就是 1個小時。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-02-24T17:16:32.979000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:16:58.456000+08:00","text":"針對這個部分，院長有這樣的提議，\n所以這個部分是不是先暫定如此，好不好？","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-02-24T17:16:58.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:17:00.758000+08:00","text":"還是保有可以修正的空間。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:17:00.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:17:09.365000+08:00","text":"沒有暫定，我們要簽字，如果我們達成協商，就沒有暫定，就定下來，不行的話，我們就休\n息 5分鐘，你們私下再討論一下，我們等一下再來處理，沒問題的……","quality":0.847},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-02-24T17:17:09.365000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:17:11.667000+08:00","text":"這一定要三部分都要講完了才能簽字啊！","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"傅委員崐萁","start":"2026-02-24T17:17:11.667000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-02-24T17:17:13.568000+08:00","text":"我以為第二部分講完就要簽字了……對啊！","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:17:13.568000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:17:29.512000+08:00","text":"第二部分定下來的話，第三部分則是他根據各位所提出的問題，加上他本人覺得還有\n其他地方是重要的，然後他來做個說明，就變成是第三部分，我們不需要幫他越俎代庖嘛！","quality":0.761},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:17:30.132000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:17:36.694000+08:00","text":"我\n們現在最確定的就是第二部分這個部分，5、5、2 如果沒有意見，我現在休息 5 分鐘讓大家私底\n下溝通，沒有問題！","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-02-24T17:17:38.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:17:43.776000+08:00","text":"院長，其實這個問題也不用私底下溝通，其實有一些例子可以參考啦！","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-02-24T17:17:45.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:17:56.342000+08:00","text":"剛剛院長提到\n了，你抓差不多 2 小時，這個應該是很輕鬆，三個政黨包括院長，大家都希望成就一件美事嘛\n！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-02-24T17:17:58.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:18:13.068000+08:00","text":"像川普到國會演說的時間，從川普走進去到結束，我剛才查了一下，總共是 1 小時 39 分 32\n秒；馬克宏則是 1 個小時 30 分鐘。","quality":0.523},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-02-24T17:18:13.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:18:27.661000+08:00","text":"即他們都抓一個半小時，可能川普比較多話、愛講話；如果\n是國會外交，到國會裡面演說，差不多是 40 分鐘；如果我們是抓 2 個小時，我們就比美國跟法\n國多了差不多半個小時。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-02-24T17:18:28.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:19:03.068000+08:00","text":"這是好事，時間上也要有個分配，所以我們也可以這麼做，就是總統\n來了，但不用講那麼久，如果是抓 2 個小時的話，這些時間就跟國會來共用，就是要邀請他來\n創造一個歷史，跟國會之間可以更和氣，同時讓大家來聽聽看他的國政方針，聽聽各政黨提出\n他們所希望的國家願景，跟總統來做交流，然後就像院長講的，最後總統再來說明。","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-02-24T17:19:03.788000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:19:18.516000+08:00","text":"所以民進\n黨對於剛剛他們所提到的，我們只要時間抓好的話，你們要 3個、5個或是 7個，說實在話，我\n沒有那麼堅持，畢竟大家都希望可以成就一件美事。","quality":0.797},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:19:20.401000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:19:32.927000+08:00","text":"如果是這樣的話，變成我們建請總統，連時間都要把它劃得很清楚，因為前面 20 分鐘總統\n做出國情說明，後面我們可能要調為 6、6、2，因為多了 10 分鐘出來了，接下來總統再做說明\n。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:19:33.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:19:39.270000+08:00","text":"我想時間上不用劃得這麼清楚，因為這會變得很怪，而且顯得我們一點都不大器。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:19:40.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:19:53.312000+08:00","text":"所以如果 5\n、5、2 國民黨團有意見，那就改為 6、6、2，這樣一來，總 total 2 個小時，總統府一定知道，\n他會根據這個來調整，我們予以尊重。","quality":0.82},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:19:54.173000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:19:58.195000+08:00","text":"國民黨黨團如果是 6、6、2，傅總召、林書記長、許宇甄\n……","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-02-24T17:20:05.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:20:09.321000+08:00","text":"第二次讓總統講話的時間恐怕會比較受限。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡委員其昌","start":"2026-02-24T17:20:10.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:20:14.223000+08:00","text":"對，所以我的意思是，對於剛剛你的 5、5、2，我計算了一下，覺得 5、5、2 可能時\n間比較剛好。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:20:14.223000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-02-24T17:20:17.404000+08:00","text":"這樣是最完整，前面說了 30分鐘，中間委員總共用一個小時來問，後面說明 30分鐘，總共\n2個小時，ending，這是非常完整的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-02-24T17:20:17.404000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:20:18.985000+08:00","text":"我們台灣民眾黨這邊是非常贊成，因為對我們……就比例來講，真的也是讓我們有機\n協 10\n會對總統提出這樣的分享。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:20:19.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:20:51.978000+08:00","text":"現在就看國民黨黨團的看法，如果現在沒有辦法決定，我們就休息一下；如果可以決定，我\n們現在就敲定，就只有這個問題了。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:20:53.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:20:54.002000+08:00","text":"好，我們休息 5分鐘。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:20:54.002000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-02-24T17:38:20.971000+08:00","text":"休息（17時 20分）\n繼續開會（17時 38分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:38:20.971000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:38:29.555000+08:00","text":"謝謝各位黨團幹部的多輪發言，關於本次要探討的議題也謝謝大家的用心。","quality":0.71},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:38:30.036000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:38:40.481000+08:00","text":"顯然我們沒有辦\n法達成共識，我想我們就持續溝通，再擇期協商，向各位黨團報告一下，好嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:38:40.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-02-24T17:38:41.681000+08:00","text":"非常感謝今天\n的參與，謝謝。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-02-24T17:38:42.181000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-02-24T17:38:43.323857+08:00","text":"散會（17時 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