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審慎因應在2024年的10月我已經召開經濟外交工作小組而且在當年美國川普總統當選之後我也請鄭麗君副院長也立即成立台美經貿工作小組"},{"start":2014.993,"end":2038.262,"text":"這當中特別是要針對美國關稅政策我們來預作準備也擬出台美經貿合作新的方向而美國去年4月對於世界各國起徵對等關稅之後我們也密切關注美國法院各項的進行跟審理的結果美方也曾經表示"},{"start":2039.142,"end":2064.573,"text":"即使法院的判決出來對於以往的決定有所不同或不利也會改採其他的法律途徑延續已經跟各國談妥的關稅政策因此世界各國即使面對這樣的一個法院判決的變數仍然持續推進與美方的談判並達成各種重要協議那麼我國當然也不例外"},{"start":2065.433,"end":2075.345,"text":"我們與美方談判最大的挑戰在於我國在2024年是美國第六大的逆差國而到2025年我們的"},{"start":2076.716,"end":2088.16,"text":"這個差距更倍增到美金1500億元美國是我國第一大的出口市場其中半導體等232關稅項目佔我國輸美的總額達到76%其餘的24%適用於對等關稅也就是我國的傳統產業跟農業影響甚大而美方對逆差大的而且有232關鍵項目的國家也包括我國在內"},{"start":2105.492,"end":2127.304,"text":"都一致要求要全面的市場開放解決長期非關稅貿易障礙以及增加對美國的投資等等的要求因此對等以及232的關稅應該必須要一併的談判我國需美方商務部洽談MOU備忘錄"},{"start":2128.697,"end":2150.297,"text":"投資的MOU與美國貿易代表處USTR也磋商對等貿易協定我們就簡稱ART面對這些挑戰我政府始終目標不變第一我們要爭取降稅而且不高於我們的競爭國確保國家產業的平等跟公平競爭"},{"start":2151.343,"end":2180.212,"text":"第二 回應美方要求平衡逆差堅守國家及產業的利益國民健康 糧食安全等四大談判原則第三 優化我國經貿體系接軌國際第四 在我業者爭取AI商機擴大對美投資的時候要確立我們高科技戰略的民主夥伴關係是緊密的存在而這些目標在美國經歷了十個月密集協商後"},{"start":2181.558,"end":2202.271,"text":"應該全數都有達成以上目標雙方在今年初簽署的投資MOU以及ART之後我國同時已經取得了對等關稅15%而且不疊加是美國逆差國當中最優惠的待遇以及232條款最優惠的待遇將產產農業與高科技產業的壓力轉化為未來的優勢"},{"start":2208.277,"end":2229.793,"text":"至於談到台美投資MOU這個裡面的成果美方日前已經對於極少部分晶片科徵232關稅未來將對更多半導體的產品來課稅但我國已經成為全球第一個預先爭取到半導體關稅最優惠待遇國家而美國判決"},{"start":2231.034,"end":2246.556,"text":"法院判決無效232條款我國爭取到232優惠並不會受到影響這其中包括以赴美投資企業輸美半導體在一定的配額當中我們是零關稅的"},{"start":2247.642,"end":2267.387,"text":"另外在配合外我們也得到了15%的關稅如果美方稅率更低則將從它更低的一個稅率從美方更低的稅率赴美投資設廠營運所需要的原物料零件設備也將豁免額外的關稅"},{"start":2268.697,"end":2286.573,"text":"第二在其他232優惠比如汽車零組件以及木材家具也已經是15%而且不疊加航空零組件當中的鋼鋁銅衍生品是0%是零關稅的而SIME雙方也將就未來232調查項目持續來協商優惠的待遇"},{"start":2291.337,"end":2318.268,"text":"另外在跟流台灣佈局全球國家總體戰略之下我們提出了台灣模式與美合作以兩類性質不同的跟資本承諾來投資美國第一類是由企業自主投資2500億美元第二類是政府信用保證支持金融機構提供上限2500億美元的企業受信額度"},{"start":2319.088,"end":2338.306,"text":"美方也承諾要致力協助我企業赴美投資取得土地、水電等基礎設施,並促進美商來台投資我五大信賴產業,其中包括國防軍工、次世代通訊、安控、AI半導體、生技醫療等等產業,增進共榮的發展。"},{"start":2343.297,"end":2351.106,"text":"至於在台美雙方簽署ART的成果做以下的報告首先我國已經取得對等關稅15%而且不疊加讓我國一舉與日韓歐盟拉起"},{"start":2357.321,"end":2376.176,"text":"比過去我們更有優勢也爭取到2072項出口額約99億美元的豁免對等關稅包括蝴蝶籃 茶葉 珍珠 原料等等納入豁免項目之後我國蘇美平均稅率降到12.33%"},{"start":2380.393,"end":2383.376,"text":"至於貝克對等產品佔蘇美總額比例也從24%降到15.5%第二在進口方面"},{"start":2390.919,"end":2416.086,"text":"我們堅守糧食安全跟軍工韌性所以爭取到93項產品不降稅以及維持一定的稅率守住了稻米、牡蠣、雞肉、大蒜、紅豆、蛤蠣等等27項農產品不降稅而且有46項農產品維持一定的稅率包括豬肉、鴨肉、葡萄、保健食品等等"},{"start":2416.886,"end":2427.436,"text":"以及中小貨車等20項工業產品也維持一定的稅率而我國自美進口占全球進口量的10%其中76%"},{"start":2431.087,"end":2460.435,"text":"高達296.6億美元已經是零關稅降稅農產品當中85%為我國國內自給率偏低的項目比如小麥 龍蝦等等另外有許多的品項美國市場進口主要是與其他國家替代來競爭與我國的市場有所區隔比如液態乳跟花生等等"},{"start":2461.089,"end":2473.532,"text":"而國人關心的小客車也降制了零關稅這加惠國內的消費者而且我們必須強調降稅只限於台美之間不會擴及到其他的國家"},{"start":2475.336,"end":2499.378,"text":"根據經濟部委託民間智庫整體的研評估談判後無論是我國的產值GDP以及工業就業人數結果都是由負轉為正的成長顯示整體結果對我有利第三項我們守住了國民健康堅守基改管理不變國人關注的牛豬議題"},{"start":2501.042,"end":2524.925,"text":"會依照科學實證接軌國際規範同時堅持四大不變就是敏感品項禁令不變原產地標示不變校園採購國產農產品不變以及從源頭邊境到後市場的食安管理機制都不變我們也守住了防疫主體對非洲豬瘟管制不變"},{"start":2525.885,"end":2554.545,"text":"另外也堅持比照日本標準爭取行政區域較大的郡為禽流感管制的範圍這優於鄰近國家與美國的協議那麼針對符合美國安全標準的美規車我們將取消進口數量限制但仍將確保安全、能源、污染、噪音合規後才能上市也是建立後市場的集合機制"},{"start":2555.385,"end":2583.873,"text":"第四項我們在台美21世紀貿易倡議當中這個基礎上我們加速推動智慧財產權勞動權以及環保貿易便捷法規透明以及數位貿易等等與國際通行規範銜接提升經商的便利公平與透明第五項台美在強化經濟安全上有高度的共識將從出口管制投資審查以及"},{"start":2585.174,"end":2614.047,"text":"房渡 洗產地等加強合作這有力共同建立可信賴而且具有韌性的飛鴻供應鏈第六項雙方將增進商業機會打造緊密的供應鏈在採購方面基於能源安全與永續韌性我國營事業會以原定規劃尋一定的程序跟規定對美採購石油 天然氣 電力設備以及民航機等等"},{"start":2615.425,"end":2633.115,"text":"為因應美國關稅我們必須採取若干新的形式的發展而有新的措施美國最高法院判決牽動了全球的經貿秩序判決之後美方已啟動其他的法律程序跟途徑延續關稅政策包括今年2月24日以122條條款"},{"start":2637.01,"end":2664.771,"text":"為各國科徵150日的10%加MFN的暫時性關稅美方將此關稅率也繼續提高到15%而美方也可能展開301條款的貿易調查也擴大232項目的調查這些都是我們繼續要密切關注的而對於美國政策等外部"},{"start":2665.752,"end":2693.924,"text":"環境的情勢變動我們政府我們的政策的核心目標不變仍然是以維護國家產業的最大利益為目標判決之後我們的第一時間已經與美方取得聯繫美方政府團隊也研議若干後續的作為完成之後將會通知包括我國在內的已簽署貿易協議的國家針對判決後的心情是政府也委託了智庫進行"},{"start":2695.1,"end":2701.1,"text":"影響的延期雖然一二條款對全球增加15%而且增加MFN"},{"start":2702.017,"end":2731.124,"text":"相較去年暫時性對等關稅20%加MFN對我產業是有所改善不過這個仍然不如我們所在ART當中爭取到的15%而且不疊加若再加上其他我國已經爭取到的二三個條款對我國出口產值GDP工業就業正向效果會更為明顯以豁免品項來看部分對我有利的ART豁免項目"},{"start":2732.469,"end":2758.185,"text":"比如蝴蝶藍等等並未包含在這次美方122條豁免的清單當中而且美方可能隨時修改豁免清單但ART已經載明的豁免品項是具有法律穩定性的因不會隨著美方的修改行政命令而變動這也是為什麼我們會認為ART是面對美方關稅"},{"start":2759.726,"end":2784.406,"text":"政策变动时候对台湾是最有利的基础在个别产品方面汽车零组件等232优惠的待遇也不受判决影响并且这个可以与其他国家公平竞争至于工具机机械手工具水五金塑胶纺织自行车等等美国一二条款临时性关税虽然"},{"start":2785.441,"end":2799.085,"text":"低於去年的稅率但比我們的競爭對手如日韓我們仍有一些的差距這也另一個為什麼政府要鞏固我們ART的成果打造產業平等競爭的基礎政府會繼續做國人跟產業最堅實的後盾"},{"start":2805.415,"end":2827.621,"text":"帶動臺灣安穩度過變局而且大步向前去年4月美國宣布對等關稅之後我們立即提出了因應的支持方案特別是對中小企業跟傳統產業提出更多的關注與支持面對122條款暫時性關稅期間政府持續對產業支持方案會依序的進行"},{"start":2829.191,"end":2833.577,"text":"後續在我鞏固ART成果之後我們不會縮減已經編列的930億特別預算更將"},{"start":2839.272,"end":2862.911,"text":"反守為攻助我國的產業能夠把握這個優勢爭取各種海外定戰經濟部460億的四大支持措施也會持續進行未來就汽車產業而言儘管每次的價格有一定的市場區隔經濟部仍會在既有的預算當中提出30億的款項來協助產業進行發展農業部也將"},{"start":2868.664,"end":2889.034,"text":"擴編設置300億元的農安基金從扶持農業確保優勢擴大外銷鞏固韌性四大面向提供支持勞動部也有150億元安定就業等措施要持續的推動進行並適時我們會提出更多支持的策略"},{"start":2890.489,"end":2902.918,"text":"因應供應鏈韌性跟地緣風險政府會確保臺灣中長期經濟穩定發展尋求更均衡有韌性的經濟成長帶動百工百業在新局中持續前進"},{"start":2905.066,"end":2933.758,"text":"至於台美的ART以及投資MOU完成之後政府在第一時間就向國人說明內容而這兩份文件成為因應美國後續關稅政策對我方的最優勢的基礎政府將持續跟美方密切的聯繫溝通在台美ART以及投資MOU爭取到優惠待遇的基礎上確保相對優勢跟最佳的待遇屆時也將依前面所說的將ART"},{"start":2934.588,"end":2960.723,"text":"以及MOU及整體影響評估並送國會過去一年來台灣經濟成長率達到8.63%出口6407億美元創下歷史的新高未來無論外在環境如何政府一如既往會密切的關注變局確保成果以及審慎因應為國家產業爭取最高的利益"},{"start":2961.587,"end":2985.516,"text":"最後 敬請各位委員能夠鼎力支持談判團隊在過去的努力也對我們後續跟美方的聯繫跟爭取跟確保給我們最大的支持謝謝各位 敬請指教 謝謝好 謝謝卓院長的報告現在進行委員質詢每位委員質詢時間不得超過15分鐘"},{"start":2989.062,"end":2994.827,"text":"輪到質詢委員如不在場 視為棄權首先請莊委員瑞雄質詢謝謝主席有請我們行政院卓院長還有我們行政院副院長鄭麗君副院長請"},{"start":3018.408,"end":3023.393,"text":"這一次的談判代表楊代表是不是也請我們農業部陳部長經濟部龔部長"},{"start":3035.663,"end":3054.928,"text":"院長 副院長 辛苦我想今天聽了院長針對台美關稅這樣的一個專報聽到了很多讓民眾安心的地方但是其實有一些對產業的一個衝擊本席在這個地方也不得不提出憂慮"},{"start":3057.009,"end":3072.322,"text":"也就是說從這一次我們看到2025年4月3號川普宣布32%的一個對等關稅然後呢我們政府開始去做一個因應到了去年的2025年8月1號談出一個暫時性的一個稅率28加MFN"},{"start":3078.667,"end":3104.898,"text":"那到了2026年都到今年就是其實是幾天前2月13號我們談出了一個國人跟我們行政團隊啊拍手叫好2月13號這個簽署了一個ART的一個協定15%不疊加可是呢這個2月20號啊美國最高法院就裁定啊這個引用的法源有問題啊"},{"start":3105.782,"end":3129.14,"text":"那所以又認為他是違憲或者是違法那在2月24號呢川普用引用的這個貿易法122條款那又變成15%又疊加MFN這個罪惡待遇所以我在這個地方要請教就是說我們這一次的談判裡面我請教副院長你認為"},{"start":3131.437,"end":3159.265,"text":"取得最重大的一個勝利行政團隊你們覺得自豪的地方是哪一點報告委員台美歷經十個月兩個階段的談判我國跟美國是對等關稅及232條款並談我們分別簽署了ART對等貿易協定跟投資MOU取得在逆差國中對等關稅最佳的待遇15%不疊加"},{"start":3160.441,"end":3173.584,"text":"以及232條款下最惠國待遇我想這是雙重的一個最佳待遇所以這個談判結果我想對於不論我們是傳統產業農業以及高科技產業"},{"start":3175.024,"end":3193.688,"text":"過去在十個月前以及十個月內造成衝擊已經大幅減緩甚至未來我們將由副轉正來提升我國在國際上的競爭力我想這是我們的一個談判結果那委員所關心的有關美國高院的判決那我想美國政府已經說得很清楚"},{"start":3195.049,"end":3217.442,"text":"232條款是不受影響的所以我們取得的232的多項的關稅優惠是不受影響的那至於在對等關稅所簽署的ART的部分那美國政府也已經宣布了未來他們的關稅政策方向不變但是判決失效的IEPAR的法律工具美國將會有替代性的法律途徑的安排"},{"start":3218.066,"end":3245.96,"text":"那階段性的是122條款目前行政命令公布的是10%加MFN那當然川普總統他有說可能會提高到15%那目前我們還在關注中他要怎麼提高那至於122是一個過渡性的階段性安排未來其實USTR美國貿易代表署格瑞爾大使已經說了他可能會啟動301條款或其他的法律途徑來重建原來對等關稅的法律途徑"},{"start":3246.861,"end":3265.439,"text":"來反映出前階段的一個談判的結果所以我想我方政府的目標非常清楚就過去已經爭取到最佳待遇未來在美方過渡性的措施以及後續法律基礎的一個重整的過程當中我方持續努力溝通"},{"start":3266.459,"end":3290.365,"text":"來確保我們已經取得具相對優勢的最佳待遇我們有信心達成這個目標來維繫我們產業已經取得的在國際競爭上的相對優勢那我們已經跟美方取得聯繫我們會密切保持聯繫跟溝通我們期待的不是只有行政團隊有信心我們期待的是行政團隊談判完以後這一些具體的"},{"start":3291.701,"end":3305.669,"text":"談判結果可以去做一個落實我為什麼這樣講呢你像譬如說成儒副院長你所講的有76%裡面涉及到232的部分你們簽訂了MOU這部分這間安全過關這個整體來看為什麼國人會認為說該給你們掌聲的地方"},{"start":3313.308,"end":3338.926,"text":"高科技你說半導體也好AI也好伺服器也好那這一些是台灣的一個強項整個供應鏈強的不得了毛利也高這個部分維持原來的那24%這個部分就令人擔心了但最擔心的是在什麼地方你本來好不容易去談出一個ART你本來是不疊加了這個2月13號簽署了以後15%不疊加MFN"},{"start":3342.756,"end":3357.649,"text":"那你整個談判的內容裡面啊裡面可是有471項裡面的產品是豁免可是美國現在川普一個行政命令馬上就跟你講說我現在用122你原來那些豁免"},{"start":3358.61,"end":3382.726,"text":"不見了也就是說整個法條一轉換授權一轉換以後我們原來那一些可以得到過免的地方本來是可以領的美國政府跟你說我現在全部都收回那這一些衝擊啊如果站在一個理性的國民來看整體的談判成功 給掌聲可是如果站在整個農業來看的話"},{"start":3386.059,"end":3407.347,"text":"我看了實在有點心驚膽跳啦我是一個農家子弟啊 問淨產啊農民很辛苦我都非常清楚啦譬如說這一次美國這個叫做對等關稅在本席看來這哪是對等關稅這個全部都是在懲罰全世界啊台灣身為美國的第四大的一個順差的一個貿易國"},{"start":3408.649,"end":3434.544,"text":"我們賺太多嘛那所以呢川普也因為說全世界賺太多全部隆重給你課剩多少關稅講的叫做對等關稅那可是那個單方面課以後很大的一個麻煩就是台灣的出口的強項是工業工業賺順差台灣的並非強項的農業我們就必須要去扛關稅要扛關稅我來請教我們的"},{"start":3439.159,"end":3451.602,"text":"農業部長好了 農業部長我們今年對美國農產品的出口多少跟委員報告 出口的部分是37億37億才要38億啊沒有 那是應該是進口8.9億 對不起 8.9億應該是進口進口是36.9億進口37億 出口8.9億我們出口那八個月比較不夠贏"},{"start":3465.025,"end":3470.241,"text":"但靜靠三十倍贏了農業來講的話整體來看我們是逆差欸"},{"start":3472.199,"end":3490.951,"text":"只是我們衰咧我們賣去美國賣不走 我們淨靠很多我們今天被懲罰的部分是因為我們享受了很多貿易的順差所以川普針對這一些 美國針對這一些貿易順差的國家 他就要給你懲罰這個就對等關稅 我懲罰你可是針對農業來講的話"},{"start":3495.013,"end":3511.138,"text":"這次的一個談判結果我是開心不起來啦整體來看對整個國家那當然我們的影響會不大跟其他國家來做比較的話我們算不錯可是農業來講我出口比較不高一點我進口比較不三十八點好了這個關稅"},{"start":3515.039,"end":3530.107,"text":"變成我農業來種槍我來舉例就好了啦你本來蝴蝶蘭的部分美國市場你是不是死神了他現在15%15%你的利潤全部都歧視掉了那你競爭對手你看荷蘭就是我們最大的競爭對手嗎他也是15%"},{"start":3533.189,"end":3547.063,"text":"是 但問題是荷蘭跟我們模式不一樣我們是要海運我們要運輸再加15%荷蘭 我跟你一樣都15%但是荷蘭它是怎麼樣它蝴蝶蘭是怎麼樣我直接在美國那個地方設廠"},{"start":3548.659,"end":3577.511,"text":"我們臺灣也在美國社長我跟委員報告我們要比高的市場我們現在臨時性的一二條款10%或以後的15%我們跟荷蘭的立足點是一樣的那現在我們在美國的市佔率我說市佔率以113年來是46%跟荷蘭也差不多所以我們兩國是勢均力敵一直在競爭我們的美國市長那現在的競爭的基礎是一樣的那我相信我們不一樣"},{"start":3579.093,"end":3597.104,"text":"不一樣 立即的 核心不一樣模式也不同 我們先不讓他管我跟委員做一個報告在我們原來ART爭取到的我們的蝴蝶藍是豁免的也就是說我們原來MFN是零對等也豁免 專屬豁免所以我們就憂鬱豁免可是122在150天裡面就沒有豁免會不會再延長也不知道啊"},{"start":3604.689,"end":3630.851,"text":"122是一個過渡的階段目前是10加MA分那這是一個過渡階段所以美國政府已經有說明了過渡階段之後會啟動其他法律途徑那我們推估我想未來的法律途徑調查之下的結果某種程度應該會反映談判結果那也就是我們要去爭取確保的一個目標那所以我們有達成協議的國家是嗎是嗎ART是一個我們有利的基礎"},{"start":3631.511,"end":3635.975,"text":"所以我們一定會持續確保我們在農業取得的相對優勢所以我們一定會持續確保我們在農業取得的相對優勢所以我們一定會持續確保我們在農業取得的相對優勢"},{"start":3648.344,"end":3661.135,"text":"會不會再延長 我也相信啊啊就簽署下去 經過兩邊的國會議會那當然它就是一個穩定的一個架構啊是一個有利的基礎是一個基礎沒有錯啊但是你150天 這150天政府要怎麼幫忙我跟委員報告喔 這150天就跟去年4月以前一樣"},{"start":3667.441,"end":3679.678,"text":"關稅大家一致性的時候就各憑本事那台灣的是用水草種植他的那個盆花壽命會比荷蘭的用那個木塊種植還高所以我們的施安率還是很高的"},{"start":3682.262,"end":3706.544,"text":"我要講的就是說一定會受到衝擊啦我們政府就必須要當農民的後盾市場開發不易啦這第一個蝴蝶蘭的部分啦我絕對肯定你們一定會有行政措施我希望我們品牌打出來以後我們也可以去升級因為它整個經營成本是不一樣的第二個我再來舉例毛豆就好我們非常認同我們會絕對支持產業不論任何變數"},{"start":3709.386,"end":3719.663,"text":"我們都讓我們的產業能夠維繫相對的競爭力我們也會爭取到最後的結果講到很多的成果我都肯認我是從這些擔心的本來"},{"start":3721.175,"end":3747.165,"text":"跟我農業沒有事情的整體談判下來以後我本來就是弱勢我本來出口就是比較少還進口更多還要開放雙重打擊你知道嗎我再舉一個矛盾就好了委員我三點跟你報告我們已經有300億的農安基金作為後盾這個可以解決未來可能發生的種種狀況再來美方政府已經說過了他延續延續後續的作為之後他會通知包括我國在內"},{"start":3747.905,"end":3765.802,"text":"其他已經簽署的一些國家我們那時候才會知道我們確保的這個ART最有利的待遇會不會得到微細數我們現在就全力來爭取這個再來15%不疊加的這個關稅還沒有發生所以我們院長我們今天才必須要這個專報嘛"},{"start":3772.386,"end":3795.977,"text":"現在就變成是一二二的條款這150天政府怎麼來支持我還談到第二個 你說毛豆就好啦中國本來是這樣 中國都不會說嘛 對不對本來就是說中美之間的貿易大戰 台灣扯一些肉依給開拓一點市場 好啦現在大家都一樣以後中國賣不到美國去的 會賣到什麼地方去日本"},{"start":3797.475,"end":3798.779,"text":"台灣本來到日本市場占七成啊中國到美國是占七成啊"},{"start":3805.68,"end":3829.822,"text":"他做他的 我們做我們的你現在美國賣不賣去以後他全部都把你丟到日本去你說對台灣不會有衝擊一定產生嚴重的衝擊嘛所以我要跟你說的不一定 不是說你沒搞我要跟你說的是說這八五天裡面要怎麼做一個因應尤其是 我很擔心啦八五天 美國要笑笑咧八五天以後跟你說 要不然再延一百天"},{"start":3831.363,"end":3838.371,"text":"很難講啦尤其是你看 譬如說部長你最清楚啊你過頭套套的部分分裂15% 現在15%又變成加MFN賣相出口 出口去到美國嘿 你再加這15%下去齁我如果買這裡 我跟你講啦"},{"start":3848.783,"end":3856.47,"text":"我跟委員補充一下這個現在行政命令還是10加1倍分當然川普總統說15現在10加1倍分我們還會再觀察那毛豆的部分我們之前是23因為是20加1倍分那現在就是10加"},{"start":3873.746,"end":3890.446,"text":"3.8那未來即使15的話是18.8跟越南泰國中國立足平等如果我們未來鞏固R的談判結果我們會優於越南泰國中國那您關心的這個鬼頭刀的這個部分如果我們這個目前如果是以"},{"start":3892.348,"end":3905.895,"text":"這個10或15跟越南厄瓜多立足平等但如果我們能夠鞏固ART的成果其實我們也會立足平等相對優勢所以我簡而言之第一個我們原來ART的談判結果並沒有委員所說的雙重衝擊"},{"start":3907.156,"end":3919.926,"text":"我們爭取到的出口優勢我們在進口的部分守住我們糧食安全的重要項目那的確現在面對一二二的行政命令我們會全力支持我們的產業來面對新的局勢那我們未來會鞏固我們的台灣成果"},{"start":3928.693,"end":3933.337,"text":"我講一句話就是說我們現在你關心這8.5天1.2條款裡面我們怎麼樣去協助農民我跟委員報告我們已經持續像軌道道來講我們已經持續"},{"start":3947.662,"end":3959.21,"text":"你到最後你這個東南亞的成本它更低啊它更低啊所以對台灣你說沒有衝擊那是不可能今天的一個狀況裡面要分析啊最主要的是說"},{"start":3966.533,"end":3988.769,"text":"一個重啟的部分期待我們政府可以給農民給漁民更大的一個當他們的一個後路如果沒有人要跟我說我滿意我是針對說農民漁民無辜勞因為我正是在談的是在講貿易的一個順差懲罰的一個關稅跟農民幹嘛"},{"start":3998.592,"end":4010.496,"text":"好 我們那個是不是其他的不用問 你用書面用書面回答莊委員 好不好好 謝謝莊委員謝謝莊委員為農民發聲下一位我們請林佩祥委員質詢"},{"start":4030.202,"end":4057.249,"text":"好謝謝主席有請卓院長請卓院長備詢林委員好卓院長好卓院長今天我站在這裡不是來否定行政團隊對於台美關稅上付出的心力跟努力"},{"start":4057.935,"end":4081.637,"text":"而我們是來了解現況而且來幫國人解惑的對台美合作我們是支持的為台灣爭取更好的經貿條件我們也鼓掌但是因為我們支持所以我們更要問清楚畢竟協議簽了魔鬼藏在細節裡院長先請教你第一個問題日前美國最高法院裁定川普總統2025年對各國爭"},{"start":4084.537,"end":4111.343,"text":"加徵關稅的措施違憲這不是小事這代表美方行政權所依據的法律基礎已經出現重大的動搖行政院過去對外說明台美談成的15%關稅是不疊加但是現在實際情況上面來講15%已經出現疊加所以我就在這邊想請教院長既然法律的授權的基礎已經改變"},{"start":4112.063,"end":4141.135,"text":"原本不疊加的條件是否仍然成立好 跟委員詳細報告我們現在的狀況即使沒有發生美國最高法院的判決我們現在仍然是百分之二十加MFN所謂談判的ART裡面的百分之十五不疊加還沒有經過國會保留的程序所以是沒有生效美國對我們他國內程序也沒有完成行政命令也沒有完成所以我們的現狀是百分之二十加MFN"},{"start":4141.815,"end":4168.489,"text":"那爭取到百分之十五不加那個還沒有生效但經過美國最高人判決之後現在他改用這個一二條款已經不用原來的IPA用一二條款之後現在美國宣布是百分之十加MFN所以現在是百分之十加MFN或許未來川普總統的百分之十五還會往上疊加目前狀況是如此所以我們認為我們所爭取的百分之十五"},{"start":4169.52,"end":4185.928,"text":"不疊加這個是對台灣最有利的我們可以跟我們競爭國家相比較我想請教一下說行政院是否現在有跟美方確認我們談的效益我們談的協議是否有用當然我們已經跟美方取得聯繫我們希望在這個150天當中一二條款的暫時的關稅當中"},{"start":4189.929,"end":4216.06,"text":"我們盡快跟美方確認也確保我們在ACT當中已經雙方簽署的這個內容那因為美國要對其他全世界各個國家所以我剛剛在報告裡面也提到美方政府團隊會研議後續作為他完成後續這作為之後會通知包括我國在內的已簽署的協議國家我們也在這個對象當中有正式的文件或法律意見書嗎"},{"start":4217.341,"end":4242.508,"text":"我們希望如果他因為法律基礎有所改變從IPA變更到122的時候他應該告訴我們法律變更的內容不變這就是為什麼我把第一個問題提出來的原因因為說真的我們不是在質疑談判團結的能力而是我們在於制度穩定性的問題上面我們是出口導向的國家關稅的一個百分點牽動是整個產業的競爭力"},{"start":4243.968,"end":4257.423,"text":"那我在這邊也誠摯的建議院長我們是否可以放慢一下腳步看看我們最主要的競爭對手日本 韓國他們面對這一波的關稅談判採取什麼樣的態度什麼樣的步驟什麼樣的節奏"},{"start":4259.666,"end":4279.302,"text":"他們一樣表達堅持過去的談判協議的結果我們是可以慢一點我們在這邊是建議是慢一點因為現在不確定因素太多了那如果我們急著表態不見得能夠幫我們台灣換取到最大的利益穩健出牌才是我認為跟留台灣之道"},{"start":4279.662,"end":4296.63,"text":"我應該也支持我們爭取原來我們談妥的ART15%不疊加的關稅吧你也支持我們去做這樣的確保我現在其實我現在要問第二個比較敏感的問題了啦老實說因為我們知道鄭麗勳副院長封城僕僕從美國趕回來在記者會上面告訴全國人民說"},{"start":4297.57,"end":4315.132,"text":"談判成果豐碩我們爭取到比日韓更優惠的15%關稅不疊加還有2000多項的零關稅優惠條件但是現在我想明確請院長告訴我們現在這2000多項零關稅是否還依舊是零關稅有沒有疊加的風險呢"},{"start":4316.189,"end":4333.298,"text":"部分的品項是在美國現在一二當中沒有豁免的品項當中所以我們要確保的就是已經談妥的協議是不是照原來2700多項的關稅豁免的部分我們能夠全數的保留下來"},{"start":4334.498,"end":4355.658,"text":"對台灣能夠繼續的予以豁免這個我們才能夠跟我們的競爭國家因為其他國家也許對美的關稅原來是低的我想我現在問的問題跟剛剛莊委員有些地方有些相似就是說我們了解說在國際在國際政治上面守信的重要性我們也支持台灣遵守這個協議但是守信的前提是"},{"start":4356.374,"end":4369.672,"text":"這個所謂叫reciprocal tariff我記得是條件一致雙方對的如果當初談定的條件是15不疊加現在卻變成15再加其他關稅那這還算是同一份協議嗎更何況"},{"start":4371.434,"end":4384.745,"text":"美國大法官已經判定川普關稅違憲賴總統也表示台灣願意繼續遵守協議這份誠意我們肯定但是美國如果被判違憲之後反而可以不受本來的協議約束繼續加收關稅"},{"start":4387.467,"end":4415.944,"text":"史獎院長這就不叫對等關稅這叫做我說了算所以委員我請問委員是不是支持政府去向美國確保我們已經爭取到了如果要繼續執行這樣的協議行政院要如何說服國人美國是可以在任何狀況下向單方面改變協議另一方卻必須無條件遵守這樣子立法院如何同意已經變調的協議呢所以委員是不是也同意我剛剛所說的"},{"start":4416.824,"end":4440.141,"text":"希望政府去確保我們取得的15%不疊加我們是現在先去問說這法律基礎的問題如果委員支持我們這樣的做法我們現在的做法就是向美國要求他我們現在是在法律基礎上我們必須先確認不然的話我們現在談出來任何事情可能就是因為一個念頭而去改變這其實對我們台灣談出來的結果是非常不利的"},{"start":4440.401,"end":4468.844,"text":"所以我想請院長回答我剛剛的問題所以兩個問題是委員應該支持我們現在的態度爭取百分之十五不疊加這個協議我覺得我們現在已經到一個死胡同就是我們一直在說因為我現在要問的是說我們是不是在這個法律上面這法律基礎是穩定的因為我們如果簽的協議法律基礎是不穩定的那這個協議嚴格講起來就很fragile就非常的脆弱所以我想請院長先跟我們確認一下是否這個法律基礎是穩定的"},{"start":4469.204,"end":4495.887,"text":"所以我再次強調我在報告當中所提到的美方政府正在研議後續的作為完成後會通知包括我國在內的已經簽署的貿易協議的國家法律是不是穩定是美方政府正在努力的工作不是我們去替美方說美國的法律但就我們而言我們是極力爭取已經確保得到的最佳待遇我們爭取這個態度"},{"start":4497.628,"end":4520.394,"text":"所以美國說的算嗎美國的法律當然美國說的算啊那變成是說我們兩邊法律的話變成是我們簽這法律還是美國說的算的話那我們就知道因為是美國的法律基礎在調整不是我們在調整是美國的法律基礎在調整第三個問題因為我時間也蠻有限的第三個問題也是我認為目前最迫切的電子業 工具機 傳統產業 農漁產品石化 汽車零組件每一個產業"},{"start":4525.055,"end":4536.686,"text":"受到的衝擊程度是不同的成本轉嫁能力也不同供應鏈的結構也截然不同目前企業只能從新聞片段拼湊資訊自行解讀協議內容老實說這樣對於產業的發展是極大的傷害對於整個經貿治理嚴謹而講起來也是不負責任的因此"},{"start":4545.635,"end":4569.265,"text":"我們正式要求行政院責成經濟部財政部農業部等相關部會針對各主要產業別儘速召開更多的公聽會讓業者能夠清楚了解他們被影響的範圍成本變動情況政府的配套措施以及補貼或協助機制同時讓業者有機會能夠直接表達意見"},{"start":4570.385,"end":4587.839,"text":"我個人認為經貿談判不能只有政府對政府也必須有政府對產業的溝通與對話院長針對這個召開公聽會這件事情我們已經在做在去年對等關稅宣布4月2號的前後我們已經啟動了所有的影響評估"},{"start":4589,"end":4612.703,"text":"的委託智庫來研究那現在我們在美國最高法院判決之後我們也委託智庫來進行影響的分析這個都有在做那分析的結果我們會透過跟產業的關懷座談跟產業做報告這個部分請部長來說明對事實上座談會從4月號開始我們現在辦了幾十場的座談會包括大大小小總統還有院長還有我個人"},{"start":4613.345,"end":4620.568,"text":"中南部不知道跑了多少次然後除了這個之外我們在過年前還院長指示下我們還啟動了關懷的電話打了超過幾萬通的電話"},{"start":4626.721,"end":4652.397,"text":"包括如果公股銀行的話是十幾二十萬通就是問他們就是說在這個過程當中是不是要政府有需要更進一步的協助那有一些我們就會把它整理出來那什麼需要政府政策我們就來加強這個部分不好意思 部長 委員長我覺得是目前來講因為這個時空背景不同國際關係 國際環境變化得很快那所以說可能這個公聽會可能要繼續辦"},{"start":4653.337,"end":4682.45,"text":"要讓產業多多了解因為現在狀況已經變成是沒有人可以猜到明天會發生什麼事所以說院長其實我認為我們的立場其實很清楚我們支持台美合作我們也支持台灣的國際布局但是我們要求制度要穩定法律要清楚產業要能安心資訊要能透明因此我認為說這有四點就是院長必須要給我們不只是給我個人也不只是給國民黨黨團而是給全民的一個回答"},{"start":4683.01,"end":4711.131,"text":"第一個我希望委員再加上支持現在政府向美方確保我們已經得到最佳利益的爭取再增加一個支持政府向美方確保我們已經得到的最佳利益我們先把四個問題講清楚因為我認為這四個問題也是全國的人民甚至全國的人民都在關心的第一個就是美國高等法院裁定違憲之後台美協議的效力依據為何行政院是否已跟美方正式確認"},{"start":4712.412,"end":4730.968,"text":"第二個原談判成果中兩千多項的零關稅優惠目前是否依舊有效是否已排除疊加風險第三行政院是否同意召開各產業別公聽會第四行政院是否願意提出完整的產業衝擊評估影響報告送及立法院來審閱"},{"start":4735.191,"end":4756.976,"text":"我認為台灣的產業界需要的不是口號而是一個可預期可依靠的制度環境那我認為這些東西也都是我們全民不分黨派大家都在期待的那最後剩留一點時間剛好雖然今天是所謂關稅的專案報告但是昨天才發前幾天目前全世界最大的新聞就是美伊開戰"},{"start":4757.856,"end":4782.336,"text":"那美伊開戰之後呢我本席要在這邊利用非常短的時間來請教院長跟部長在伊朗發生戰爭之後經過四天之後經濟部剛好部長在這邊今天才要召開能源會議那我想請問部長跟院長因為這個是有關國安危機我們都知道能源危機就是國安危機請問院長跟部長我國的天然氣來源能源有25%來自卡達請問現在的狀況是怎麼樣"},{"start":4786.256,"end":4809.926,"text":"我先說一下程序第一天戰爭發生之後的第一天國安團隊已經向總統跟行政團隊提出了說明昨天我們已經召開了一次的會議接下去是經濟部要啟動真正的這個緊急應變機制他馬上啟動至於說能源的分佈緊急市場來請部長來說明是 報告委員那個院長的指示我們從今天開始是從我們次長賴次長"},{"start":4810.868,"end":4831.263,"text":"每天都會主持專案會議來看看這個情勢的一個變化那第二個就是說先跟您報告就是說我們先講三月份天然氣的部分如果是前半個月的部分因為已經出了核母式海蝦這個就沒有問題了那現在關心的是三月份下半月的事情下半月的事情跟委員報告"},{"start":4833.188,"end":4846.59,"text":"昨天那個同仁已經跟我講這個在其他的市場上已經掉到貨所以3月份沒有問題所以我們盡量的是說4月份我們開始啟動了有一些掉貨如果啦因為我們也不希望說萬一"},{"start":4849.014,"end":4865.112,"text":"這個暫時拖到四月份的話但是萬一拖到四月份的話我們還是有一些因應措施因為這個戰爭目前各方眾說紛紜有說四週有說四年所以完全非常不一樣所以我們現在準備好最少最少這個三月份的問題已經解決了"},{"start":4865.532,"end":4892.827,"text":"所以我現在是未來有沒有可能這應該在短期之間不會因為有電燃天然氣不足而限電的問題吧短期之間不會 絕對不會那我們大概到幾月包委員現在我們是程序上來講第一個您剛才講天然氣我們先把這個3月份的這個來源先確保了那因為天然氣的部分主要還是用來發電目前來講那如果是電力的部分的話包委員因為我們現在還有一些備用基礎"},{"start":4893.527,"end":4918.14,"text":"就是非天然氣的備用基礎隨時可以來備用接下來兩個末期的問題可是全國都很關心的有沒有可能造成電價上漲是不是會全面啟動煤炭發電呢因為這個電價還是要回歸到電價審議會那我們也希望說這個事件都是短暫的時間或是一個階段性而已那就比較不會對電價有沒有可能是不是會造成電價上漲"},{"start":4919.751,"end":4931.296,"text":"我們還是要觀察目前的情況因為這個決定權還是在審議委員會有沒有打算那是不是因為這個事情會打算全面開啟煤炭發電呢那個是最後手段"},{"start":4935.336,"end":4952.385,"text":"跟委員報告我們LNG還是有安全的存量那剛剛部長所報告是3月份我們進來的LNG的這個量沒有任何的影響現在我們經過我們這個緊急的調度資源之後3月份來源是沒有影響但是我們還是會有"},{"start":4967.533,"end":4973.196,"text":"好 謝謝林委員 謝謝卓院長接下來請洪裕祥委員質詢好 又請這個卓院長請卓院長備詢"},{"start":5002.791,"end":5029.831,"text":"洪委員好謝謝院長這個我們稍微看一下就是說在到目前為止說實在的從2月15號行政院經貿談判公司發新聞稿說我們2月12號簽完ART然後1月15是簽投資MOU可是在立法院來講我是沒有收到正式的文書還沒有送對不對還沒有送"},{"start":5032.372,"end":5051.575,"text":"所以說實在的站在我的立場其實我是肯定談判團隊的努力但是就是我實在是沒辦法省空氣所以可能還是要給我一些正式的像我們那個ART的文本還是從你們官方的鏈接而且你們附的時候應該還是要給我中英文"},{"start":5052.954,"end":5071.862,"text":"然後這個MOU的協定內容是什麼我剛剛很期待的看這個附件這個叫重點摘要也不是正式的officially的文件所以我是覺得這一塊地方還是在請行政院看什麼時候可以再送給我們審議可以嗎 院長對 依照我們的規定是談判團隊"},{"start":5072.932,"end":5083.552,"text":"跟外國簽署一定的這個程度之後簽署達成之後一定的時間要送到行政院行政院就要核定之後會送到大院來做審議那現在這個時間還沒有到"},{"start":5085.715,"end":5113.45,"text":"對吧 因為所以說因為現在很多人都說我們是不審啊或者是不同意啦然後或者是說這個但是我感覺就是我拿不到東西我就覺得就是黑箱啊我看不到內容我沒辦法審談判這個議題上我們從來沒有說大院不審我們只是說不審的只是預算跟軍購特別條例好來下一頁這個目前依法論法依合約來論合約所以因為我常年在以前在外商工作過"},{"start":5114.778,"end":5142.446,"text":"白紙黑字在美商很重要所以現在我們這樣子的一個基礎是有問題的也就是說它是被美國最高法院判定這是違法我們是架構在這個違法上面所談出來的ART我覺得框架可能是我們要努力的大致內容但是我覺得就白紙黑字是不是還是要做修正"},{"start":5143.86,"end":5164.789,"text":"所以我再強調美方會把它的後續作為通知我方我們希望我們得到的通知是一個很正式的文本那那個部分我們來確認之後第一個確保我們已經談妥的包括232包括15%不疊加的關稅都在我們已經談好的最佳的待遇"},{"start":5165.572,"end":5168.254,"text":"好 我為什麼這樣子問也就是說第一個要跟國人澄清這白紙黑字的合約內容是一定要調整"},{"start":5185.595,"end":5202.41,"text":"因為我不可能簽一個違法的也不可能去審一個違法的利潤基礎的法案這在前面兩個委員都討論過這第一個第二個趁這個緩衝的時間是不是可以再談到更有利一點或者是我的投資金額再少一點這個是我們很好的那就是要重啟談判"},{"start":5204.112,"end":5233.087,"text":"總體談判是一個很大的挑戰我覺得是你用appendix或者是怎麼樣子的附錄修改都可以啦這個再看你們怎麼去談我只是說努力嘛努力你有150天的緩衝就好好努力再我說實在的我們談了一年喔就是我們常常在外面的媒體或新聞看到就是說我們談得很好尤其在新春那時候政府院長說的對不對15%不疊加可是過一個年就變天了嘛"},{"start":5233.817,"end":5247.209,"text":"那這個時候來講就是談了一年我的天花板就變成是地板那這樣子來講的話在你們之後的經濟部召開的記者會當然你會說很多但是我假設就這150天裡頭我跟競爭國的對手來比較這150天我們還是有損傷的吧"},{"start":5253.676,"end":5282.098,"text":"不是 報告委員現在競爭是百分之十是全世界都是百分之十加一我知道我知道因為現在你們的就是很多的媒體新聞都是寫15%現在的話真正正式是10%然後川普這邊他什麼時候會改成15%這要等他officially的一個order裡頭才有辦法這個我知道所以基本上我大概也查了一下整個122條款的這些的美國的這個CPP的這樣子HTS US的表"},{"start":5282.879,"end":5309.431,"text":"基本上來講我們很多就不在就如同部長說的這個是不在我們的豁免裡頭所以這個時候來講的話這個150天這樣子的一個產業的受到的衝擊我是覺得可能要去多方的做一些的配套的一個措施那再來的話呢在這個地方的話呢也就是說我現階段只能確定的就是絕對不是ART"},{"start":5310.492,"end":5336.793,"text":"我都起碼在這150天嘛我們當然希望它縮短一點在這150天來講絕對不是RT也不是232嘛那就是122那122的話現在我也希望行政院去澄清就是要讓外界清楚知道因為有些人講15%有些人是講10%加正確的說法就是10%加上MFN那要等美國公告才15%的MFN那為什麼這樣講因為很多的廠商現在是搞不清楚"},{"start":5337.827,"end":5357.067,"text":"他常常來找我他說現在到底是要多少那到底要多少的時候呢說實在的我也再去幫你們再查了其實這裡頭廠商很關心的問題是到底我們未來MOU232的優惠到底是什麼項目這邊考一下部長我們常常講半導體"},{"start":5360.659,"end":5386.109,"text":"資鋒訊產業請問在我們的這個台美MOU我忘問號的地方跟這個232條款到底是多少巴偉因為他現在232的調查還沒有結束還在進行對不對他是說有可能在一個月或兩個月以後會對外公佈那實際上的課稅那時候才會出來但是基本上按照如果我們跟他簽了MOU的這個這個協議的話"},{"start":5388.789,"end":5403.314,"text":"基本上可以豁免就是我們半導體去那邊投資豁免是零嗎對豁免是如果是在這個投資產生的產值的配額之內是零那配額是多少配額外是優惠稅率15%那屆時如果他公布的低於15%我們MLU載民從期低"},{"start":5413.317,"end":5426.006,"text":"所以我們爭取到的是半導體資通訊最惠待遇那有關已經制定稅率的汽車零組件是最惠待遇15%為什麼這樣子問的原因就是說剛剛前面委員都說過了不管是農業或者是這些24%的受到衝擊的影響我覺得後續還是要去辦產業的說明我現在就半導體跟資通訊產業在現在這邊它並不是完全的"},{"start":5440.505,"end":5466.43,"text":"豁免也不是完全的零所以呢基本上來講我是希望在你們未來台美的MOU或是232盡量去避免因為包含我們這裡頭的HS的code如果你去查一下的話8541 8542這大概沒什麼問題但是在後面的8532 8534以及現在目前的話很多122的條款裡頭像通訊設備路由器等等他寫的都是Aircraft"},{"start":5467.97,"end":5488.276,"text":"所以在這一段期間我們是希望說未來為什麼我剛剛一直講150天的這樣子的緩衝的期間你要去能夠把這樣子的談判能夠如果我們可以再往前進能夠再更豁免多一點的我們當然是需要努力吧報告委員我們現在後續的包括您剛才提232項目那邊跟美方之間還是"},{"start":5489.572,"end":5509.464,"text":"在副院長的主持之下我們還是有跟他實際再視訊就是哪些具體項目真的放到您剛才提到的這些豁免清單裡面去那因為這個豁免清單要需要他的商務部我是覺得這個為什麼會這樣子問下一張投影片我就跟廠商講說來你如果要出口報價的話"},{"start":5510.765,"end":5519.816,"text":"他說那我要從哪裡得知比較正確及時的資訊我說那你查經濟部囉對不對查財政部官報署看看喔"},{"start":5521.144,"end":5541.845,"text":"可是我們上去查的時候沒有啊不是目前如果是屬於ITA項目的話目前報價就還是領了關稅我現在講的是查詢啦查詢的話你的資料經濟部你的資料2月23號2月23號就已經判定違法了所以2月23號的新聞稿他屬於232項目裡面他是232項目"},{"start":5545.1,"end":5559.119,"text":"所以我說這個資料內容更新一下目前在行政院經貿辦公室都有部會整合的資料那是不是容我一點點時間跟委員報告一下就是說因為這次判決對於232條款下的優惠是沒有影響的"},{"start":5560.12,"end":5579.833,"text":"所以剛剛提到的幾個汽車零組件那是要在整個把ART裡頭簽完現在還沒有所以現在可以確定的就是122沒有 資東訊半導體現在是零因為他232稅率還沒有公佈如果232稅率的半導體稅率公佈之後我們就會適用最惠待遇配額內"},{"start":5580.814,"end":5601.653,"text":"零配額外15%我現在整個是回到廠商來我是希望說廠商要去查到即時資料的時候不要讓他一個一個部會查我們有行政院整合的資訊窗口來源分散沒有即時更新那個資料不要有錯我們一定會整合資訊提供給廠商要不然你說AI行動內閣會落差"},{"start":5605.436,"end":5621.536,"text":"我的意思是這樣沒有啦 一定有進口的資訊我以後慢慢看而且最近也會展開系列的跟我們進出口同樣的會因為我練資工的所以你講的我都相信你會做到好不好做不到的話我們就質詢的時候再看再來"},{"start":5623.698,"end":5637.288,"text":"台積電設廠這高階晶片的關稅還不是零就剛剛你們講的配額目前因為他辦表決關稅還沒有真正制定所以目前是用ITA的項目基本上現在是零"},{"start":5638.203,"end":5655.144,"text":"我知道但是我現在說假設因為你們行長號稱嘛投資的協定嘛ART是你最大的亮點我現在如果放到你的MOU裡頭所講的基本上就是你的配額內的晶片的課稅是0額度外的是15%"},{"start":5656.67,"end":5671.198,"text":"最惠待遇如果未來屆時公佈稅率低於15就要重啟低所以我們確保的就是好沒關係 反正配額內免稅配額外就走最惠國待遇這個都清楚我幫你算了一下就是說整個如果以台積電的一個製程"},{"start":5671.818,"end":5699.177,"text":"大概全球產業2024年是129億顆小美假設做七成的話大概是差不多是90億所以如果以亞利桑那州的這個廠的話看起來每次大概是15億顆左右我初估然後的話呢如果按照它的配額這樣算下來大概就是37.5所以兩邊去把它扣下來之後我可能超過配額外的我可能還是要去扣水"},{"start":5700.031,"end":5720.801,"text":"所以這個課稅的話大概我估是1300億到4800億左右當然你說我們半導體競爭很強這關稅也不是我付不是這樣算法我們直接出口到美國的半導體顆粒的部分不到10%基本上它是在其他地方裝上了AI Server以後才賣到美國去那是另外算的"},{"start":5721.226,"end":5750.295,"text":"明白我現在是說如果你隨著產能的增加我現在是估一個最大量假設是因為半導體的生態系有它的複雜性晶片直接出口的比例是低的所以我們談的這個半導體及其衍生品那尤其所謂配合的計算的基礎會希望的是企業投資未來的投資計劃我現在只是說如果這個產能上去的時候這個產能上去的時候我的意思想要表達是說我整個生態利用都過去了"},{"start":5750.635,"end":5777.104,"text":"可能有爭取到全部都是零嘛因為我現在本來就是零啊你確定半導體沒有整個生態鏈過去不是那個ITA項目裡面現在全世界都是零嘛對不對但是美國他以後二三二調查以後所有的ITA項目去那邊就不會剩好我最後還有一個問題啦反正你的配額A跟配額Y1.5N跟2.5N那個N是誰認定"},{"start":5779.25,"end":5783.462,"text":"報告 我跟委員是不是補充兩點第一點 你先回答我 他就N誰認定"},{"start":5785.236,"end":5811.454,"text":"美國廠的產能誰認定?是我們台灣認定?台積電認定?還是美國政府認定?我們的投資計畫是企業自主所以由企業決定它對美投資的計畫然後來,針對問題的啦你的NOU上面寫的1.5N、2.5N那個N誰認定?現在要跟委員報告每個國家有它本來的投審計畫我國也有我不要投審,我現在要去講N啦美國產能的N是誰認定?"},{"start":5813.123,"end":5834.707,"text":"這個會跟商務部每個企業會他的投資計畫會跟商務部來這個協商那政府也會參與我希望會追這件事情我希望這個N的協定不是美國說的算我們現在目前會建立居土居的協商為什麼我跟委員再補充報告第二點這個協商除了取得優惠以外沒有協商我們企業設廠營運它需要的原物料設備零資金要取得豁免"},{"start":5840.928,"end":5860.208,"text":"所以我們要協商兩個方面所以我是覺得可能20兆的投資的金額這些東西可以再少一點這個是你要去努力的這個是不能這樣計算啦委員 這個不能這樣計算廠商自主它有它的需求廠商自主這個投資信保這個東西也是一個騙局那委員有沒有講過2500億加上2500億的信保你們的投資都說只有2500億但事實上是超過的啊"},{"start":5864.272,"end":5885.68,"text":"上限兩千五百億融資不是嘛我說整個投資金的絕對不是只有兩千五百億嘛一定是七千多億嘛那有兩千五百億是企業自主的投資不是政府的出資對那個是企業自主投資我沒有跟你吵數學我數學都寫在那邊的好不好數學公司我要去看一下我們的企業從美國一年的最後我想簡單又只剩十九秒"},{"start":5888.246,"end":5898.431,"text":"我們呢 半導體的整個可能長遠要去防止它資金基礎人才的掏空再來最後一個就是這一個我覺得蠻嚴重的啦為什麼我在川普的眼中 台灣是小偷要不要去抗議那你沒有去抗議啊"},{"start":5923.653,"end":5932.764,"text":"好謝謝謝謝洪委員也謝謝卓院長下一位我們請蔡易瑜委員質詢"},{"start":5949.381,"end":5958.787,"text":"謝謝主席那我們是不是有請院長以及經濟部部長請卓院長還有部長蔡元豪好 院長好"},{"start":5972.202,"end":5999.229,"text":"院長那我想這一次的整個台美的一個經貿的一個談判基本上是好多層的一個轉折啦從去年4月的時候當時川普他宣布了懲罰性關稅那也就是說從32%那再加上既有的就疊加所謂的NFN那到了8月的時候他暫時性的對等關稅就先把台灣的部分就變成20%再疊加NFN"},{"start":6000.916,"end":6004.279,"text":"後來在我們整個行政團隊由我們鄭麗君副院長率領的跟美方的談判"},{"start":6010.031,"end":6035.011,"text":"那我們爭取到了台美對等貿易協定就是ARTART就是15%而且不疊加NFN那現在的狀況就是看起來說美國的最高法院去宣判了川普的這個IPA是有違法的一個狀況所以川普他就把它轉為說用他們過去既有的122條款然後再疊加NFN那在中間的這個轉折會讓我們大家"},{"start":6040.251,"end":6065.278,"text":"現在的問號就是說好那我們完成了ARTART就是所謂15%的不疊加NFN那跟現在川普他宣告全國都是用所謂122加上NFN就是15%疊加NFN那這兩個之間是否有衝突還是說我們可以在這個的基礎之上用ART不疊加NFN就可以"},{"start":6066.028,"end":6091.059,"text":"取代川普現在所謂的122加上NFN呢報告委員目前來講暫時現在的官規是10%加上NFN目前就是報的這個稅率那現在我們還是希望就是說可以達成ART的最後的結果因為ART可以提供我們跟其他國家立足點的競爭平等雖然他是15疊加現在是10疊加"},{"start":6094.933,"end":6107.306,"text":"所以我們還是努力爭取因為到時候這個暫時進程關稅一旦落幕以後美國找到法源以後基本上就會回到他原來美國跟其他的國家談判的一些結果"},{"start":6108.12,"end":6125.751,"text":"所以該升的升 該降的降現在是大家一致性的一個暫時性現在都是大家還是一致嘛對不對但是我們的ART一旦生效一旦生效 其他國家的過去的談判結果也會同時生效也會同時生效嘛那就有可能就會落到說好就是15%"},{"start":6128.188,"end":6150.044,"text":"就是我們現在期待的一個最終的一個方向所以在這個大方向之下我們希望就是這一個ART的部分是要經過國會的審議然後盡速讓它生效這個是我們現在的一個目標那當然我要 我就是說在這裡要打我們這個談判團隊我們真的是要按個大拇指 真的要按個讚啦"},{"start":6150.865,"end":6175.918,"text":"因為我們爭取到的還包括2072項是豁免關稅這2072項然後這中間是很多然後再加上我們另外跟美國簽署了這樣的一個NOU那這個NOU裡面就代表的就是說未來在232條款裡面我們有最惠國待遇也就是說未來台灣會處在一個說我們除了有所謂的15%不疊加"},{"start":6177.319,"end":6203.971,"text":"那這個15%這個NFN當然現在是有一個還在爭議川普要怎麼決定是否疊加這件事不知道但是至少我們簽了ART之後我們從15%然後有2072項的是屬於豁免關稅就是所謂零關稅的部分再加上232爭取的這個NOU裡面是最惠國所以台灣基本上在這些品項上我們會處在"},{"start":6205.592,"end":6217.875,"text":"相對於台灣一些產業科技產業最大的競爭可能來自韓國來自日本我們的立足點美蘇英這個院長這個是你們有信心的嗎是沒有錯"},{"start":6218.712,"end":6238.904,"text":"所以委員應該是支持政府現在趕快去確認跟確保我們在談判當中所獲得的最優惠的待遇那美方完成它內部的法律程序的調整跟途徑之後就會通知我們那我們一定要這個通知的時候能夠確保我們確認我們是維持已經談判得來的最優惠的待遇"},{"start":6239.184,"end":6265.619,"text":"所以這件事情基本上就不衝突嘛就是說我們因為跟美國談到了現在的這個ART這樣的一個成績這個成績是國會審議過後那美方再去決定他們內部他們面對最高法院的判決他們最後要怎麼定調他們國內要如何課稅這個是美方的問題跟我們現在跟他簽署的基本上這是兩條可以並行的線這沒問題嘛對 委員"},{"start":6268.683,"end":6293.775,"text":"我原說的完全是目前的情勢就是122條款是一個美方已經有說是一個暫時性的措施那目前是10加MFN那當然川普總統有說可能會提高我們會關切但它是一個過渡性的暫時性措施最重要是後續他們會有安排新的法律工具的基礎那我們相信在這個法律工具基礎我們評估它安排出來的時候應該會反映原來跟各國談判的結果"},{"start":6295.696,"end":6320.418,"text":"那我們也正在跟美方緊密的聯繫當中我想這是一個大方向那我方努力的目標就是的確是確保在後續法律途徑重新重建的過程當中持續爭取到我們已經鞏固爭取到我們已經爭取到的相對優勢的最佳待遇所以委員剛剛關心的是不是能夠鞏固我們的談判結果這就是我們努力的目標也是我們正在跟美方聯繫溝通當中我們也已經取得聯繫"},{"start":6321.089,"end":6344.646,"text":"沒有不對啦 我嘗試說白話他現在美國內部的國內調整所以他現在要用122所以這122訂出來了 訂的是全球通用這減息的 因為他的法源的性質他就是可以直接沒有經過調查就先訂他是用既有的法律之下他是一個階段性的安排"},{"start":6346.407,"end":6366.758,"text":"剩餘一二二十四就是全球適用嘛全球適用的情況之下我們台灣今年已經進出這個ART然後這個ART裡面我剛講的2072項的一個零關稅而且一律用15%不疊加就是這個不疊加的就是逆差國中最佳待遇就是我們面對後續變動有利的基礎"},{"start":6367.378,"end":6374.166,"text":"好,所以在這個基礎之下,我們快讓ART上路,縱使美國後面,我們最後有機會就是回到這個ART,回到ART我們就是15%不疊加,那甚至在232裡面有所謂的"},{"start":6382.395,"end":6410.895,"text":"NOU的一個最惠國待遇所以這就是現在對我們最有利的一個立場所以行政團隊爭取到的這樣的成績當然你現在希望立法院在審議的過程裡面應該要全力支持這樣的一個成績甚至應該是要捍衛這樣的成績沒有錯吧對 委員都講更白話就是說雙方都現在都認為雙方談好的都算數第二個如果單方有一些內部的調整"},{"start":6411.4,"end":6440.192,"text":"要向我們提出一個明確的說明跟保證原來的談好的事都一樣都算數的那這個基礎存在送交國會國會同意之後這個ART跟這個MOU就會一起生效所以現在就是ART跟MOU就是現在我們立法院要審議的所以我站在一個立委的一個立場我真的覺得說呼籲這個朝野黨團尤其在野黨因為我看到在野黨"},{"start":6440.851,"end":6457.546,"text":"的黨主席還說要重啟談判啊國民黨也說說也講了說要重啟談判可是問題這個重啟談判有可能就是因為又會進入到川普現在說的說如果要重談的話之前的一些東西就就都無效了就全部重來"},{"start":6458.607,"end":6485.14,"text":"他這個不確定性就很高這就是我們現在會歡樂的因為現在既然說有這個選擇這個選擇為什麼不讓他上路呢對 我們評估就是已經達成協議的國家面對後續美方重新安排法律工具是一個有利的基礎希望未來是會反映我們原來的談判結果那至於沒有達成協議的國家我們評估他們會面對後續新的法律工具下比較高的風險甚至可能會被課比較高的關稅"},{"start":6486.04,"end":6506.036,"text":"所以我想我們已經談出來的一個談判結果是未來後續有利基礎我們努力目標就是爭取回鞏固我們得到的最佳待遇所以副院長你剛講的這個事實上就真的有前車之鑒嘛韓國國會就沒有通過他們跟美國的貿易協定結果後來他們現在被課25%這件事是確定的嗎對 因為當時122判決公布之前因為韓國一直遲遲沒有推進原來已經簽署的MOU所以當時美方就"},{"start":6516.025,"end":6544.688,"text":"曾經提說要再提高關稅嘛我想這很清楚那川普總統當然我是台灣台曼代表我不一代美國發言不過我們都可以從媒體看到川普總統也表示還有他們美國貿易代表也表示希望維持這個協議嘛因為我們看到川普是在1月26在他的社群媒體他就說川普總統有說重談的可能會更糟但是我想美方已經有表達希望維繫跟各國的貿易協定那我們也評估認為已經談到的最佳待遇是"},{"start":6545.268,"end":6556.336,"text":"未來的有利基礎希望去鞏固這樣的一個談判成果那我們也評估沒有達成協議的國家未來面對新的法律工具他們的風險相對是比較高的"},{"start":6556.841,"end":6580.818,"text":"當然所以我們現在已經談到了而且這個成績普遍上國人是覺得談得很好我想不管是商種或是現在的一些工業的一些團體甚至來自我們農業的我們農業縣的我現在聽起來大家都普遍認為說在這一次的談判中有守住對農業基本上的一些保護我們是有守住的"},{"start":6581.218,"end":6597.679,"text":"所以這個談判這樣說起來跟不上為止所有大概國人一致的認為談得很成功現在唯一的不確定性就是美國的內部的政策的調整但是至少這個談得成功的前提之下就是我們要捍衛的"},{"start":6599.501,"end":6623.104,"text":"現在是美國內部程序法律基礎工具正在重新安排那我們要面對的是說在這個過程當中持續去溝通聯繫確保我們取得的成果那我們已經取得聯繫也正在聯繫其實過去這幾天我們跟商務部視訊我們也跟這個貿易代表署都有建立聯繫管道也在取得聯繫所以我的工作責任"},{"start":6623.755,"end":6633.409,"text":"就是持續溝通聯繫在後續變動中鞏固我們談判最佳成果好 副院長這件事真的要跟你說辛苦了你辛苦了而且這樣的一個成績"},{"start":6635.796,"end":6661.604,"text":"我們未來在國會上我們希望可以加速審議然後加速讓它生效這是郵中的一個期盼畢竟我來自農業線所以我認為說有一些問題農業上的問題我還是想在這個機會跟院長這邊來稍微再請教一下就是說因為這次的談判基本上對於台灣消美至少在農業的部分有261項的農產品"},{"start":6664.606,"end":6673.779,"text":"會降到零趴就是剛剛說的豁免關稅農業261項其中包括蝴蝶蘭啊包括茶葉包括咖啡包括紅萊酥甚至蒜仔甚至這個這個"},{"start":6683.649,"end":6700.836,"text":"鳳梨跟委員報告一個好消息因為目前美國正在進行檢疫程序已經完成要準備草案公告那我上次去簽署ART的時候有有向美方反映說希望這個鳳梨檢疫的程序早日完成所以他們也會加速進行所以看起來就是說我們這個不錯"},{"start":6703.775,"end":6718.318,"text":"因為台灣這些都是我們大宗的作物至少在水稻的部分沒有增加配額部分其實有一些東南亞國家像印尼、柬埔寨他們是有開放稻米的像稻米在內島27巷我們都維持維持在既有的配額以下像蚵仔也是一樣分蚵仔也是一樣蚵仔不變"},{"start":6726.06,"end":6741.789,"text":"然後你就想說我們銷售最大的水產品包括鱸魚啦包括三馬仔啦包括台灣鯛啦虱目魚 鬼頭刀有相對優勢對 這有優勢啦因為以前是20 現在是15所以這也是有優勢所以農業的部分看起來跟對美才是OK就是院長有指示糧食安全我們全力爭取到糧食安全的防險對 這都很好但是我現在要說的就是我們農業事實上"},{"start":6755.197,"end":6761.24,"text":"注意到一點就是說這個出口替代的問題就是說因為中國他現在是美國他現在是美國要在那邊購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購買購"},{"start":6783.943,"end":6802.675,"text":"會消去美國 現在他們開始要遭日本日本是我們70%的出口所以這部分我們就會被中國衝擊到就是跟談判沒關是中國的問題可是中國的一旦他的低價產品開始流竄到其他國家的時候這個對我們會衝擊"},{"start":6803.956,"end":6821.406,"text":"我跟委員報告我們在處理台美關稅之間的因應的部分不是只有對美國市場我們也同時看這個產品對於其他的國家像其他國的模特兒的部分日本的部分我們也會回訪去增強它的一個利基"},{"start":6821.826,"end":6846.114,"text":"我現在一個重點就是說我們現在就是農業部編列所謂特別預算190億那在幾個禮拜前我們院長也有宣布要用300億的農業的一個農安基金農業安定基金那我現在要認為說這個都需要因為農業它的變化是很多國家一起競爭所以但是在農業的部分我們要知道"},{"start":6847.334,"end":6874.652,"text":"對農民來講有些基礎設施是不可或缺的就是說對農民來講這些基礎設施包括他們水路的改善所以這些特別基金跟特別預算我們認為說在傳統的這些水路農水路上應該也要編列因為這部分對農民來講他要怎麼讓他的生產是穩定的這個來自他們要有更強的抗旱 抗災的能力這個就是傳統的一些建設所以這部分"},{"start":6898.454,"end":6901.916,"text":"好謝謝 謝謝蔡委員 謝謝卓院長"},{"start":6907.677,"end":6910.428,"text":"報告院會休息十分鐘休息之後繼續進行質詢現在休息"},{"start":7619.025,"end":7621.986,"text":"法院會現在繼續開會 請紅委員孟凱質詢好 主席謝謝 麻煩請總統太院長請卓院長備詢"},{"start":7656.773,"end":7676.802,"text":"館長好今天算是15號還算是過年期間不過我相信不管是團隊也好不管是我們立法院其實都已經正式上工代表說我們為台灣2350萬人共同努力打拚我們的心態都是一致的我們態度都是一致的早上我們先來討論這個關稅的議題的時候我要先請教一個國際形勢因為畢竟現在國際形勢"},{"start":7685.413,"end":7698.522,"text":"變化萬千中東的一個形勢剛剛我知道有聽到經濟部部長也有講到是說我們現在的天然氣存量或是石油相關的部分主要會受到是中東的這個地區海峽的一個封鎖"},{"start":7699.209,"end":7727.613,"text":"那但是上半個月是已經過了這海峽那下半個月現在已經有找替代了可是這是不是代表是說如果說這個戰事中東地區超過一個月以上的話確實對我們國內的天然氣或是石油是有影響的我們應該還有安全的存量對除了安全存量因為安全存量是持續的嘛我現在要請教的就很科學的問題我不是要套話但是就是說現在面臨到中東地區的一個形勢不知道大家會打多久"},{"start":7728.083,"end":7737.127,"text":"那現在對我們自己的一個能源的部分因為剛剛也有委員問到有沒有可能短時間包括說因為這樣子而造成能源的一個狀況這是國安問題來請回答"},{"start":7739.729,"end":7764.276,"text":"所以三月份的問題已經解決我們現在就開始啟動解決四月份的問題一步一步的把它解決掉那基本上是透過很多我們自己可以提前調貨就是跟非中東地區的部分我們會跟他講說我們要因為我們會受影響的比例其實並不是說完全是中東地區來的油或天然氣而是經過海峽還是說兩者都有"},{"start":7765.41,"end":7793.974,"text":"主要是中東地區其他的部分比如說是來自澳洲或其他地區那那個就不會有影響那我們可以跟他們討論就是說我們原來跟你因為那個都是長約嘛那有沒有可能說我們提前提貨類似這樣的情況因為他總是要我們等於是我們應變措施可能會跟其他地區沒有受戰火影響的譬如說澳洲等等提前提貨是不是或者是說日本跟韓國也有其他的地區有一些貨我們可以跟他調"},{"start":7795.856,"end":7806.134,"text":"跟日本跟韓國調貨日本韓國不會他們自己也有缺乏嗎因為這個是全世界的影響所以日本韓國有可能他們把他們原本有的貨來調給我們"},{"start":7807.199,"end":7827.561,"text":"如果有機會的話他要從其他地方來的話那不然就是部長我們是已經有劇本了還是你現在天馬行空在想不是不是不是我們就是往這三個方向好這三個方向因為你在國會殿堂裡面本實要的就是確保我們國內的能源無虞這個是我們首要目標我相信你也一樣但我們要用什麼樣的方法我要的是"},{"start":7828.181,"end":7855.016,"text":"點出這個問題請行政單位現在就要因應中東地區形勢有可能延長的狀況來做後續的劇本因應我們這兩天都在研議這樣的一個狀況那在最安全的考量之下找出多元的方式出來就包括剛剛經濟部長講的這幾個部分好 那另外第二個部分當然國人同胞在那邊所以我們也看到說有沒有撤僑的計畫"},{"start":7857.13,"end":7886.473,"text":"本席先跟您報告一下剛剛最新的一個新聞美國對十個國家中東地區包括阿聯包括卡達等十個國家發布了大規模的撤離令也就是美國要求這十個國家撤僑德國也啟動了撤僑計畫優先接回附用那本席也知道外交部這邊已經統計了現在在中東地區我們差不多有三千多名的國人其中最多人是在沙盧地阿拉伯兩千多名嘛"},{"start":7886.96,"end":7913.091,"text":"那到目前為止我們有沒有相關的一個計畫報告委員齁目前齁次長你的回答媒體已經看到我現在要問的是院長是啊就是說現在確實我現在要問的是院長就是說我們現在有沒有後續的計畫因為你的回答已經講了嘛目前沒有嘛要等空域開放嘛但是我們現在講是說中東地區有可能戰火我們當然希望世界趕快和平但是不是超視在我們"},{"start":7913.68,"end":7935.308,"text":"那一樣的道理當美國當德國已經啟動了撤僑計畫的時候我們目前至少有沒有因應措施我們開始要研擬如果真的有一天必須要撤僑的話我們的包機在哪裡我們的應變方式在哪裡已經僑胞回來之後安置的地點在哪裡到今天早上以前因為我們現在知道美國等國家"},{"start":7936.292,"end":7959.166,"text":"展開了比較大規模的撤僑計畫所以在這個之前我們首先確保的是我們在各個的管處能不能對我們在當地的國人或是旅行團確實掌握那這個部分我們做到了這個都有掌握了嘛本期也看到外交部的新聞我們各管處以及人員也要自身也要安全這個我們也做到了那現在因為各國展開一些比較大規模的撤僑"},{"start":7960.006,"end":7976.173,"text":"但中華民國台灣並不是一個在行動的國家我們認為我們應該可以降低一些直接對我們傷害的情況並不是我們的什麼樣的國家不是直接參與行動的國家所以對我們在當地的僑胞我們除了在高度的警戒之外我們要參考現在其他各國撤僑的"},{"start":7977.193,"end":7991.141,"text":"具體的計劃 落實的時間等等是 這就是本席剛剛提的要跟其他國家保持高度的意見要做 院長這就是本席剛剛提的德國有沒有實際參與中東這個戰火並沒有嘛我們至少看到是並沒有但是德國已經啟動了專機撤僑優先 負優先"},{"start":7994.076,"end":8014.866,"text":"回德國或是離開其他國家但是本席現在講的是說我並不是說馬上你今天就一定要撤社不是而是因應中東的形勢至少我們現在要演你我如果說真的有一天或者說這一個禮拜內突然間加劇了我們要怎麼樣應變三千多名同胞在中東地區都是我們的國人沒錯吧"},{"start":8016.414,"end":8046.068,"text":"是所以我們第一個掌握這個人數跟他在這個每個國家所以院長能夠跨部會來做一個研擬至少針對這樣的狀況外交部主責但跨部會來做一個研擬針對這個狀況來應變可以嗎昨天早上就已經全盤都推演過一次不要讓國人沒有看到如果說真的有發生緊急的情況的時候不要沒有任何計畫好那拉回來我們今天主要的一個部分就關稅本席看完您完整的報告剛剛您的報告本席有看到"},{"start":8046.567,"end":8058.634,"text":"我認同一句話在第二頁維護國家及產業最大利益為目標我們積極跟美方聯繫溝通這是我們共同努力的為什麼"},{"start":8059.312,"end":8085.328,"text":"行政立法對內我們監督制衡但對外只要中華民國的核心價值主權我們絕對一起努力所以這是本席現在站在這邊包括我們的副院長也有提到我們江啟臣副院長也都有提過說其實在野的監督制衡並不是讓行政部門難做事反而某程度上是增加談判的底氣過去民進黨在野的時候也講過了一次的話"},{"start":8086.289,"end":8101.469,"text":"也都說在野的監督制衡不要把我們當成洪水猛獸不是對外一起爭取中華民國的核心價值利益有什麼樣可以多爭取多溝通的就像你講的積極跟美聯繫溝通這就是很好啊"},{"start":8103.542,"end":8126.594,"text":"積極跟美聯繫溝通並不等於是重啟談判對吧是我們要確認美方的後續的動作也確保我們已經得到的最佳利益非常好所以本席剛看完你整篇的報告以及包括我們鄭麗君副院長等等講法其實我歸納幾點啊第一現在美國一開始的時候他們是用EPA來去要求全球"},{"start":8127.918,"end":8143.793,"text":"所以我們逼迫要站上談判桌去談了ART跟NOU但是現在美國的最高法院講說EPA是致死無效沒有辦法生效也因此美國馬上再祭出122後續我們現在看起來122對於我們的ART來講相對是我們認為比較嚴格"},{"start":8150.419,"end":8165.306,"text":"對不對對我們產業創業局比較大即便現在122是只有增加10%我們的ART是增加15%但是我們預計有可能他會增加15%可是另外一點我們其實預防跟擔心的是有沒有可能他後續會用232或是301"},{"start":8168.354,"end":8191.25,"text":"來再去對於我們來增加更多的關稅所以行政團隊到目前為止給我們的邏輯都是我們既然已經談到了ART了這就是現在我們能夠談到最好的條件了不可能比他更好了我們應該要趕快來接受接受之後有遊戲規則定下來我們就可以往前走是不是這樣子"},{"start":8192.372,"end":8207.021,"text":"是這個意思邏輯是這個意思沒有錯委員長所講大致趨勢如此不過跟委員做詳細補充1.22是一個過渡性的措施讓他美國要維持繼續有關稅存在那後續美國貿易代表已經說明有可能啟動這個301調查"},{"start":8209.122,"end":8235.953,"text":"那301調查我們評估屆時它會是一個替代性IPA的法律工具那調查之後我們當然希望我們也評估它會反映出前期談判的一個成果所以我們的目標就是鞏固不論它用什麼樣法律工具我們要鞏固既有談判成果至於232您提到的我們得到罪惠待遇那它會不會增加232調查的項目我們已經在MOU裡面安排一條"},{"start":8236.773,"end":8264.61,"text":"就是我們取得既有的已經制定的項目的稅率以及半導體未來可能宣布的關稅下的優惠待遇未來如果232持續增加項目一譬如說把原來對等移到232我們也會持續跟美國磋商爭取優惠待遇這已經寫在MOU作為預防232增加項目的一個意義好 副院長我尊重您所以我多讓您講一些現在關鍵的問題來了幾個部分我們很快就有來釐清第一"},{"start":8265.293,"end":8270.612,"text":"所以ART跟NOU我們現在跟美國簽的什麼時候可以生效是不是要等雙方國會審議過後"},{"start":8273.029,"end":8297.309,"text":"還是現在已經生效了剛剛這個院長已經有說明了這個談判結果其實美國政府有對外說明包括格瑞爾大使這兩天都持續說因為我時間有限不用拖時間對我現在剛剛已經給你時間說明了我現在講什麼時候生效美方希望維繫協議所以現在如果說以法理來講現在已經生效了嗎沒有因為要經大院審查才會生效我們現在還沒有送大院"},{"start":8300.111,"end":8314.427,"text":"所以還沒有送大院嘛所以如果以法理來講最快生效應該是送立法院送國會兩方國會審議過後嘛好所以第二個部分今天我本來期待的是已經可以看到完整的內文了但是沒有"},{"start":8314.997,"end":8337.337,"text":"那剛剛也已經有委員提過了就是說那什麼時候行政院要送來既然你剛剛邏輯講說我們趕快爭取時間ART已經談判到最好了那請教什麼時間可以送進來我們這兩天已經都有跟美方聯繫什麼時候可以送進來美方政府跟我們說明目前美國正在內部研議跟重建法律工具3月3號嘛那什麼時候可以送進來在美方"},{"start":8338.037,"end":8357.259,"text":"釐清說明我們確保約會待遇之後我們就會我們就會向這個協議文本MOE及影響評估送交國會來所以現在時間沒有辦法定院長我現在在質詢院長除非你想篡位不然的話你應該是要讓尊重院長的回答嘛還是院長都不了解"},{"start":8358.063,"end":8364.024,"text":"我早上已經說明了再來第二個部分122現在很多的委員包括我們南部委員都講是說因為122裡面有27項台灣豁免在ART豁免裡面沒有包含專屬豁免444項工業豁免沒有豁免那我們能不能利用這150天因為122未來150天之後美國國會能不能繼續授權不知道"},{"start":8384.144,"end":8408.082,"text":"我們有沒有辦法確認嘛但是至少我們預期的是有可能一二會持續不然我們也不用那麼緊張一二有可能之後會過渡到其他的法律工程所以我現在在講的是說我們既然已經談到了ART有27項的農業豁免444項的工業豁免能不能利用這段時間再請我們的談判代表積極跟美方爭取聯繫溝通把他放進來我們"},{"start":8409.201,"end":8420.511,"text":"即將要送進來立法院的審議的ART裡面122的部分它有一部分是全球豁免那我本來只針對我們的我們現在針對我們的部分因為我們ART已經談了對122對我們來講比較弱的地方就是這27票那144項"},{"start":8427.837,"end":8453.608,"text":"那我期待是當你三月底送進來的時候是我們可以爭取到說把227跟444也放進我們的ARP嘛我們就是希望鞏固二的裁判結果所以我要先謝謝委員肯定二的裁判結果再來我請教未來我剛剛的邏輯講完了你也認同就是說我們其實不只怕122擔心啦 不要說怕啦我們更擔心的是未來232跟301"},{"start":8455.939,"end":8461.128,"text":"如果說他現在2323301調查完畢之後他把台灣又把他給懲罰了"},{"start":8462.435,"end":8488.926,"text":"那對我們來講產業衝擊非常大也因此我們能不能在這一次談判ART的時候也把它加入但書未來即便是301或是232美國調查出來有任何狀況台灣也是在豁免範圍內報告委員232目前不受影響只有未來232增加項目MOU已經有條文我可以跟委員肯定回答你的增加項目是15%嘛如果說低的話會這個"},{"start":8490.848,"end":8496.237,"text":"本席有看過你的說明所以說我很完整的理解我現在講的是說不管是232或301"},{"start":8498.735,"end":8523.436,"text":"我們都會爭取到最佳待遇部長你剛剛有提過現在美國232跟301在調查的報告裡面有寫到我們在MOU的成果裡面有提到台美雙方就未來232調查項目持續協商優惠待遇我現在在講的是232也好或301也好未來它是一個"},{"start":8525.093,"end":8546.959,"text":"我們都會確保確保鞏固我們的我們就像122出來的時候他是把我們ART還要再增加一些貿易的障礙那也因此本席現在在講如果說我們在行政團隊認為說ART現在談到是我們現階段最有利的部分那就應該要努力爭取即便未來美國有232或是301301都要把"},{"start":8550.922,"end":8555.846,"text":"依照ART的精神打給霍敏開我們能不能往這個方向談能不能承諾往這個方向談並且取得成果"},{"start":8575.993,"end":8601.022,"text":"這是一體的因為美國現在一樣就是因為一樣輸出本性才會在今天特別質疑教書裡面偏側敢講232 偏側敢講301但是不管232或301其實都是現在美國川普的工具我們不要讓232 231變成122一樣到最後還會閒置到台灣的產業這才是重點是 沒有錯 301調查下我們的案子是最有機的基礎"},{"start":8607.931,"end":8609.851,"text":"好謝謝 謝謝洪委員 謝謝卓院長下面請劉書斌委員質詢"},{"start":8645.049,"end":8651.352,"text":"好 謝謝主席那請卓院長上台好 請卓院長貝殖劉文豪"},{"start":8661.843,"end":8690.177,"text":"好 卓院長早安我們看到的是在美國是我們最近長期的話是個十大的前三大的貿易出口國去年的時候還變成的是第一大的貿易出口國那他的關稅政策當然對我們就影響的很大請問院長截至到目前為止經歷過十個月的讓台美的關稅談判如果滿分是100分的話你怎麼對你的團辦團隊打分數"},{"start":8692.219,"end":8718.745,"text":"在委員之前的剛剛的數位委員諮詢當中都對我們的ART的成果表示政府應該極力爭取委員都這麼支持我覺得這個成果讓委員剛剛的表達來打分數最準確不以由我自己來講但是我很肯定的是我們除了爭取ART內容之外我們也證實我們的談判團隊是專業的談判團隊這樣看起來的話你應該是給他高分是吧"},{"start":8719.147,"end":8743.031,"text":"是委員剛剛的肯定讓我覺得非常的謝謝但是我們也看到相關的問題尤其是在2月20號的時候就是因為在美國最高法院已經認定到因為IPR這個部分他已經認為原因是失效的2月24號的政府院長也提供了說我們會繼續的再談是不是請"},{"start":8747.282,"end":8760.597,"text":"總院長您簡單的說目前的談判目前談判的目標跟原則是什麼我們已經跟美方就美國最高法院判決之後的變動跟美方取得密切的聯繫"},{"start":8761.761,"end":8783.202,"text":"希望能夠維持我們在談判包括ART以及MOU當中我們去獲得的最佳的待遇那美國也說他完成後續的一些法律途徑的工具等等之後他會通知包括我國在內的所有跟他已經達成協議的國家那現在這個程度就是剛剛陶傑委員所問的政府在努力什麼"},{"start":8783.742,"end":8802.231,"text":"我也希望委員能夠支持政府繼續確認美方的做法確保我方的最佳待遇好 謝謝 我們繼續再看可是我們現在繼續想要再去問的一個部分就是說你能不能夠承諾 因為你在過年之前的時候你呢 就是對於ART裡面的成果就是大肆的宣揚 我們也看到了"},{"start":8802.751,"end":8832.132,"text":"但是對於有部分的人就在說呢說在MOU的部分對於他的附帶條件當中呢卻沒有好好的這樣說明那想請問院長你能不能承諾說截至目前為止啊台美關稅談判的所有細節都已經完整的告知到我們的全體民眾了沒有外界所說的黑箱作業可以承諾嗎第一個談判沒有黑箱作業但基於國際談判的這個重要的默契大家在一開始到進行當中有些部分是不能在談判桌外面來向"},{"start":8833.32,"end":8852.862,"text":"是任何人來宣布的但我們在一定的程度之後都會向國人來做報告ART也好 MOU也好我們都透過記者會的方式公開向國人說明那未來只要跟美方的後續法律途徑確定之後我們會經由行政院內部的程序送交大院來做審議好 我們非常期待我們繼續往下看"},{"start":8853.963,"end":8870.096,"text":"我想要說的是在MOU當中關於說對美的投資是2500億至少2500億承擔是2500億美元的信保這個部分我們看到的是說等於是說間接的要求納稅人去承擔的風險因為2500億的信用擔保算起來的話是台幣7.8兆大概是等於8兆的情況"},{"start":8876.701,"end":8892.309,"text":"那鄭麗君院長曾經表示我們的2500億美元的信用代保其實是政府跟公股銀行只要打算付出62.5億到100億的美元就好了那這個地方難道是要透過其他的財務槓桿來進行嗎"},{"start":8895.33,"end":8919.276,"text":"我想要提醒的是 院長你不要忘記了1997年的金融海嘯最主要就是因為金融機構過度的去使用了財務槓桿以比較少的資本來介入到巨額資金而來進行到高風險的投資才造成的那你能夠保證這麼做呢不會再出現到有下一波的金融海嘯嗎所以這個是我們的上限他就不是無止限的同時我們經過他的"},{"start":8921.14,"end":8928.978,"text":"這個貸款的額度信用貸款的額度以及他的保證的倍數來算62.5億左右是目前我們核算的出來的這個階段"},{"start":8930.326,"end":8957.962,"text":"其實我剛才應該問在上面一個問題是在於說因為剛才看到IPI的這部分的時候看到的是說因為它失效所以美國跟全部的人美國跟全部的國家有關稅來往的就已經增了5.5兆的稅金那何時會退稅啊這部分到底台灣企業出了多少的稅金到底有沒有什麼時候會取回那政府要不要幫忙這個是不是請院長回答一下"},{"start":8959.864,"end":8978.917,"text":"這個現在因為最終的數字還沒有定下來到底是10%是15%疊不疊加的問題都還沒定下來但已經發生的已經發生的部分美方也說過美方政府說那就請企業主動向美方的相關的單位來提出各種的訴訟的要求那如果我們的企業有這樣的"},{"start":8979.778,"end":9007.554,"text":"已經付出的稅金需要在未來做訴訟的話我們當然會協助但現在我們是不是有這個經濟的進來因為現在經濟部他近期也會召開說明會會邀請熟悉美國國內法律程序的專家向我們企業來說明因為這個退稅涉及國內法律的訴訟所以經濟部已經在做這個相關資訊的準備我們會請美國律師來幫忙說明不過大部分我們"},{"start":9008.354,"end":9026.041,"text":"出口到美國的大部分是美國的進口商他們報稅的所以是他們去提告是他們他去提告所以那多久大概兩個禮拜能夠得到一個結果嗎這要跟美國的律師跟他們的進口商做協商因為美國的進口商他們的來訴訟"},{"start":9029.412,"end":9054.677,"text":"還要用新的訴訟啊對啊要訴訟在美國在美國來講的話是要訴訟美國政府第一時間的說明有說明他們涉及國內法律訴訟那多由進口商提起訴訟那剛剛鞏牧長有說雖然是美國國內法律程序不過我們業者希望了解那所以他們近期會跟我們業者來說明請專家來說明相關可能未來的法律程序好那這樣看起來是曠日廢時了吧"},{"start":9055.417,"end":9062.018,"text":"我們是讓廠商了解你的進口商如果產生訴訟的話可能可以跟進口商爭取一些權益因為當初這個稅比如說課了20%暫時性關稅可能大家是對半分那如果他訴訟成功的話拿回來是不是也有可能可以"},{"start":9084.754,"end":9109.505,"text":"分配給我們一點當然就是有這個基礎也就是說在美國的國內法律程序下我國產業如何確保他們的權益好 我看到趙甫在積極的再去知道這整個程序那也會願意這樣有需要的話去協助廠商把這個錢要回來對不對好 謝謝那我們現在回到剛才的這個問題就是2500億的美元的這樣子的一個信用彈簿我們看到的是在"},{"start":9110.345,"end":9135.09,"text":"我們看到的是在金鴻的這個部分其實公股銀行就是也受到財政部的邀請就談到說就算是只匯到100億的美金這個美金的話也會對國內的銀行造成很大的負擔因為在台灣的八大的公股銀行當中其中只有兩家在台灣銀行跟兆豐金他們在他去年的資本市主率才"},{"start":9136.318,"end":9157.007,"text":"才有達到所謂的這個要求但是其他的六個銀行都低於本國的銀行的市主率的情況那就是他講說如果巴納公股銀行你想如果再加上這100億的話這麼大的金額公股銀行恐怕難以成立負擔或衝擊到業務成長那這邊就想問說當公股銀行都沒有辦法承擔的時候那為何政府"},{"start":9157.967,"end":9183.454,"text":"我們談判團隊敢跟美國簽署這樣子的一個MOU我跟委員報告我們有跟公股航庫大概有談過的對於這100億或者是62.5億美元的這個部分的融資保證這個部分來講的話他們覺得在假如說我們用分期來提撥的話其實對他們的BIS的影響其實是很小的同時就是說我們今年都五年嗎"},{"start":9185.635,"end":9187.757,"text":"信用保證專款62.5億的信用保證專款分五期來循序漸進成立"},{"start":9204.634,"end":9220.528,"text":"他是說他現在如果這個情況之下他其實是有會造成他們營運的困難因為那個整個整個那個分攤機制我們還在還在研議研議當中所以所以這個部分的話我們還會繼續再跟那個公股航庫那你們這個一分攤機制尤其是分攤機制大概多久會出來"},{"start":9221.383,"end":9236.644,"text":"我們還在跟公股銀行一起密合你們的演繹其實都還沒有出來你們就繼續跟人家說有在談判過程其實我們也有跟這個我以為哪個銀行哪個公股銀行跟你說沒有辦法你可以告訴我"},{"start":9237.065,"end":9252.23,"text":"我們其實民營銀行也有財政委員會想要參與我會來財政委員會我會再瞭解你哪個公股銀行跟你說沒有辦法我會瞭解他有什麼困難我們幫他解決那現在包括你說的包括公股銀行跟民營銀行都有這個問題就是說那民營銀行他們有意願參與那民營銀行這邊因為他影響到他的營運的部分不會不會"},{"start":9257.992,"end":9271.387,"text":"因為我們都有跟他談過那個BIS所以對於他們來講BIS他們其實是可以的所以你也能夠承諾他們不會去抽我們這樣子在國內的銀根企業的銀根因為我們在規劃的過程當中我們會尊重公民銀行庫的意願我們不會強迫他們說你一定要來參加或怎樣"},{"start":9280.036,"end":9298.494,"text":"因為在這個信保的機制信保專款是設計在國發會國家融資保證機制裡面那另外跟中小企業信保是完全不會排擠的那當然院長我們也會強再持續增加對中小企業信保的支持那所謂的2500億融資是上限的概念"},{"start":9299.375,"end":9323.376,"text":"那企業也會有它的受信原則這個我們都跟美方說明會在企業有投資有融資需求然後經過銀行受信之後並且政府以這個信保專款還要審查之後才會成立這個融資以及信保的這個乘坐所以我想這個都依照台灣過去我們運作多年的所謂台灣模式成功的要素之一來進行"},{"start":9324.617,"end":9351.189,"text":"那在這個過程當中副院長因為我聽過了我知道了解了就是財政部跟政府已經有做這樣的相關的準備就對了這就好那我繼續再問下去一個很重要的問題台積電他要赴美去投資那這部分呢我們看到的是他設計的是半導體這個技術是國家核心關鍵技術那涉及到國安的問題那國科會呢他在去年告訴大家會堅持的是N-2的原則也就是落後兩代的這樣的一個技術才能出海"},{"start":9352.589,"end":9374.208,"text":"左院長你能夠承諾呢不管在美國的如何的威脅利誘的話呢我們先進半導體製程外都能夠遵守這個N-2的這個立場可以嗎企業到國外做全球的佈局那是企業基於自己的全球的沒有任何的逼迫那跟流台灣是政府跟企業當中最重要的一個原則所以跟流台灣的這個項目"},{"start":9375.134,"end":9394.982,"text":"我們一定要求企業做到讓台灣的關鍵力量要維持在國內所以盧議長你就是承諾了 對吧對 包委員因為我們廠商的對外投資基本上是要經過投審會的我們就會經過審查那會基於第一個它是不是涉及到國家安全的問題第二個是不是維護了整體產業的利益"},{"start":9396.138,"end":9412.028,"text":"第三個他在國內相對投資的狀況他在國內有沒有相對投資最先進的技術一定的生產量跟更大的就業我重點知道說政府我提醒有做到這些部分就承諾就好因為大家都全部的都在看這樣的直播"},{"start":9413.109,"end":9427.808,"text":"另外我們想要看到的是說在半導體的這個部分整個產業是往東到美國去投資那有包括是說半導體上面的人才的不只是外遊還包括是說因為我們已經承諾是要幫美國去形成所謂的這樣子的一個"},{"start":9428.388,"end":9444.598,"text":"形成產業的群聚效應那會帶動其他的美國台灣的產業到出走去包括是可能律師、會計師、餐飲服務生怎麼都可能會去那在兩岸關係比較不穩定的情況之下相信也有國人他們是嚮往到美國上面去做工作這部分期待在美國落實"},{"start":9445.518,"end":9468.095,"text":"落地生根那我們甚至已經看到前一週的新聞已經出現到台積電已經先拼出了這個300位的台積電的寶寶這樣的情況那台灣的人才台灣的人才甚至跟缺工的潮都已經浮上檯面的時候那有沒有對行政院對這一波的技術的外移跟人才的外移有沒有做過利鼓比比的評估呢"},{"start":9469.175,"end":9495.648,"text":"包委員事實上人才他通常有一些循環性台積電很多優秀的員工都是資產他們派到國外去階段性的時候他也可能會回到台灣來會形成一個循環比如剛開始的時候因為包括建廠設廠Build up的情況之下稍微會派多一點的員工出去但是後來上了軌道以後他們又會回到台灣來所以因為台灣也有我希望是台灣關係能夠穩定因為台灣的投資額更大"},{"start":9498.189,"end":9513.758,"text":"我現在看到我們台灣去到美國投資潮是但是美國也在這個MOU當中也提到美國他也要他投資台灣大概台灣的五大信貸產業包括半導體跟AI這部分那請問一下對在MOU裡面那美國有承諾都投資了還要投資的一個時程嗎"},{"start":9516.599,"end":9520.701,"text":"而美國事實上過去對台灣投資也非常多比如說我單單舉一個除了我們講說像Google這個雲端產業之外那個本來他都沒有承諾嘛你現在說有沒有一個金額這部分還是因為我們台灣條件不夠好有沒有什麼計畫就是說這樣吸引國外的外資到這邊來比如像美光他都已經在台灣投資他都把這個力積電的這個廠買下來了"},{"start":9543.152,"end":9563.32,"text":"簡單買這個空格子廠就已經花了18億美金他後面還有很多的這個機器投資設備會投資下去報告委員我們所爭取到的列入MOU的雙向投資台灣是非常獨特的地我在其他國家並沒有爭取到這樣的條文所以我想我們爭取到雙向投資也呈現一個未來雙方合作的一個代表好謝謝劉委員"},{"start":9586.571,"end":9593.739,"text":"好 謝謝劉委員下一位我們請陳冠廷委員質詢"},{"start":9609.636,"end":9618.718,"text":"你好 我們請院長跟楊總談判代表請卓院長還有楊總談判代表 是嗎 沒錯吧陳國勇好院長好 那楊代表好"},{"start":9634.639,"end":9652.744,"text":"那院長我想這幾個禮拜針對關稅的這些發展大家國人應該蠻清晰的那在聯邦最高法定他正式裁定這個國際緊急經濟權利法那他違法以來行政團隊在第一時間就做出說明那給市場恢復了一些信心"},{"start":9653.547,"end":9676.755,"text":"但是根據1960年貿易擴張法的232條款國安課稅他所建立的保護不受影響這個部分是正確的吧對 是正確的那涵蓋76%對美我們主力出口的半導體它的防線依然穩固這也是正確的吧我們的現狀是有76%在232條款裡面那我們要確認這個是不會受到影響的在配額內還是0%這也是正確的吧"},{"start":9683.317,"end":9705.51,"text":"所以光是這一點我必須要先給談判團隊給予肯定因為這是對我們來講是我們出口的命脈那對台灣的經濟來講也是我們非常重要的一部分所以這個部分談判團隊能夠做到這樣子的這個做法那甚至有辦法談到這樣子的這個境界我們是覺得非常滿意的不過我要進一步釐清一個核心的問題"},{"start":9706.491,"end":9715.283,"text":"那代表我們在台美對的貿易協定中談定的原則是 super cent且不疊加最惠國的這個待遇的稅率"},{"start":9716.004,"end":9738.921,"text":"那根據美國目前依據的122的這個條款這個臨時關稅的措施它的上限是150天那現在對全球實施的是15%在疊加那一視同仁所以楊代表此時此刻台灣出口在美國海關實際被課稅的部分是比照ART的不疊加還是跟其他國家一樣是用122條款的疊加"},{"start":9740.522,"end":9760.957,"text":"委員好事實上美國公布的1.22目前行政命令還是使10%疊加適用所有的國家的產品的進口那這是暫時的川普有說想提高到15%但是還沒有公布這個行政命令所以現在其實是10%"},{"start":9762.458,"end":9772.634,"text":"然後疊加那如果現在這個10%跟疊加對美國的出口的品項來看大概是多少百分比的差距大概就好"},{"start":9775.912,"end":9793.816,"text":"這個10跟15這兩個的差距當然對我們來講可能是因為我們在對等裡面我們有爭取到2072項的豁免的產品項目那現在只保留到剩下1597項這些產品是有一些落差從2000多到1500多項"},{"start":9796.516,"end":9817.659,"text":"那我是看經濟部的簡報裡面顯示目前的工業品的平均有效稅率是在19%那跟ART承諾的15%大概有4%的差距那以去年對美出口的總額來去推算的話那每個月承受的額外關稅大概是多少你怎麼覺得這個影響的程度是怎麼樣"},{"start":9820.205,"end":9830.753,"text":"從去年來講我們是今年到還沒有公佈ART的時候我們都是15我們都是20加疊加那現在呢因為美國122是10疊加其實比現在"},{"start":9835.497,"end":9849.222,"text":"過去這個2月20號之前它的這個稅率是比較低的所以有些蘇美的產品它的MFN稅率是低的話其實受到的跟其他這些各國的國家是一樣的"},{"start":9850.723,"end":9874.569,"text":"所以目前我們的起跑點跟其他國家基本上都是一致的但是如果未來ART簽訂之後應該是會有比較好的起跑點可以這麼說嗎因為我們跟有些國家沒有簽美國沒有簽FTA所以我們事務不叠加我們就取得跟日本韓國這些國家跟他有貿易協定的我們是得到了相對的優惠的待遇"},{"start":9875.475,"end":9894.869,"text":"那我必須要再強調一下從122到未來因為我們10%現在是10%但是因為川普總統已經說到15%那未來的變化我必須還是要強調美國有很多關稅的工具很多關稅的法律他如果不用這個由這個最高法院裁定的"},{"start":9896.409,"end":9911.414,"text":"國際緊急經濟權立法他還是可以用其他的方式包含使用301條款來去調查所以為什麼我們說ART對台灣的重要性是因為在這個框架裡面他保護了台灣的產業特別是我們最關鍵的這一個出口產業包含半導體那"},{"start":9912.734,"end":9929.631,"text":"我也理解到最近剛才聽到幾位在野黨的立法委員們都有提到說在這個ART上面他說這一個品項那一個品項來做細節上的探討但是我們討論的是一個戰略上的探討如果說我們現在沒有辦法來去鞏固ART的話"},{"start":9930.572,"end":9950.66,"text":"行政權 美國的行政權它的工具實在是太多了它可以用其他的方式授權其他的政治命令來提高對其他國家的關稅所以當我們有ART這個架構它是某種程度是保護我們的一些重要的產業所以我要再請教院長一個比較前瞻性的問題"},{"start":9952.2,"end":9975.817,"text":"這USTR已經宣布將加速推動多項301條款調查對外國不公平貿易行為的調查機制它的涵蓋包含過樣的產能包含藥品的定價包含數位服務稅等等這種這個之前楊政委的簡報也有提到說122條款150天屆滿後301條款就像我剛才提到的可能會成為它法律的長期的工具那"},{"start":9976.872,"end":10006.225,"text":"概率的請教ART的架構有沒有辦法提供足夠的防護來去避免未來可能的301的這個調查或者是代表都可以我們當初跟美國談判的時候這個對等關稅跟232這個是一起談判的當時是沒有美國還沒有大規模啟動這個301的調查所以我們在對MOU簽訂的同時當中我們跟美方有一定的默契未來他232的部分"},{"start":10007.466,"end":10029.12,"text":"會持續依照雙方所談的這個過程給我們最優惠的待遇那當時是沒有談到301但是我認為如果我們繼續爭取維持原來協議的內容的話在這樣的精神他要做擴大232跟301的調查我們也持續以對於我方國家跟產業最大利益來向美國做最優惠待遇的爭取"},{"start":10029.912,"end":10048.826,"text":"我特別提到這件事情的時候是因為301調查的時程通常是12到18個月那USTR這次說要加速所以說如果301條款在150天內就啟動那我們的ART如果還在等美方的法源明確化或者在等待我們的國會授權的話那時間上會不會出現空窗"},{"start":10050.186,"end":10062.072,"text":"我們當然沒有辦法聽美方說他的事情但我認為他面對全世界那麼多國家已經談妥的部分他是不是有可能有機會來做比較快速的處理我們當然存在這樣的期待"},{"start":10063.223,"end":10087.277,"text":"那因為現在國際秩序在不斷的變動當中有些東西不是操之在我們有些東西是操之在我們的包含國會授權包含確保說我們已經得到的這個被保護的ART能夠盡快的去審議通過我認為這就是一個很好的方式那針對投資的部分我還是要請教ART復建三它有承諾了850億的能源跟航空器採購那包含這個一化天然氣等等"},{"start":10087.717,"end":10115.525,"text":"那年度跨從2025年到2029年那還有企業2500億的赴美投資承諾那我認為包含行政院也好我們必須要跟民眾強調的是它這個不是單純的買東西或者是技術轉移我們是要爭取最有利的條件來去強調這是一個互利合作的就是說它不是把錢花出去它是一個長期的投資而這個投資是跟台灣是有互益互利互惠的"},{"start":10115.905,"end":10138.624,"text":"我想大家都會覺得說我為什麼要投資這麼多這個數以百億的美金來到美國原因很簡單因為你的投資長期上面是有效益的甚至也不用長期短期就已經有效益了那包含台積電在內很多人說我們會不會把這個利益上面來掏空或者是把基礎上面全方位的來移到美國其實院長你都已經很清楚的跟所有的民眾已經談論過了"},{"start":10140.245,"end":10156.878,"text":"我們最先進的製程在台灣另外一點就是說台灣就沒有那麼多的足夠的空間來去容納非最先進製程的這種生產我們當然是要把所有的我們的資源來去遍佈在世界上面這就是我們更大的利基"},{"start":10157.338,"end":10181.304,"text":"那我認為這些東西都是必須要跟民眾來去好好討論的不過我還是要強調這850億美元還不是小數目我們不是配合性的支出他是有戰略性的投資所以包含行政院未來把ART去做立法院審議的時候可不可以一併的提供具體的執行承諾跟議價的成果還有未來的這個可能的收益來讓民眾更加的了解第一個產業就"},{"start":10184.991,"end":10210.872,"text":"對做全球的佈局投資這長期以來都是如此過去台灣的產業也向中國大陸去做投資去做設產但相對的把我們的傳統產業跟民生工業有一部分帶過去之後造成我們內部的問題但現在因為不再寄望於那種低廉價的勞力我們往其他更大的地方去做投資做全球佈局政府支持但是基於過去的經驗我們也要會"},{"start":10212.076,"end":10236.688,"text":"要求在國家安全跟我們經濟的整個環節底下要守住台灣優先台灣立足台灣的這個根本我們才能夠允許到國外去做投資這個政府跟企業之間這個默契是存在的所以未來要做什麼樣的投資除了他自己的自主投資之外要符合到國家的政策我們要滿足到我們耕留台灣這樣的目標好謝謝院長那我們請農業部長"},{"start":10250.612,"end":10278.038,"text":"部長好我也好部長我們談判團隊在ART中有爭取到261項農產品的豁免那其中72項是台灣保證豁免那27項是台灣專屬的零關稅豁免包含這個蝴蝶蘭、關賞蛙等等那這個是非常不容易我要感謝談判團隊那現在有一個現實的問題就是說在122條款之下這些豁免暫時沒有被納入那根據農業部自己發布的數據包含蝴蝶蘭在"},{"start":10278.698,"end":10293.345,"text":"ART下市零關稅但是現在變成了15%加上這個MFN它未來是會跟荷蘭是站在同一個起跑點上面所以說我們國家的獨特的優勢暫時消失了那毛豆的ART是"},{"start":10295.166,"end":10314.745,"text":"15%那現在是18.8%那包含鳳梨等72項這個保障的豁免品項它也是暫時失效的狀態我想請問部長從2月24號122條款生效到現在目前有沒有接到一些外銷業者來反映訂單的影響或者是具體的案例這個影響規模大概是什麼樣的程度"},{"start":10315.425,"end":10339.556,"text":"我跟委員報告就是因為我們現在所簽署的ART並還沒有真正的生效所以對業者來講他比的是跟去年來比那去年是20%有疊加的方式那現在是10%122條款目前是10%有疊加所以相對於去年其實已經比較好了這第一個重點第二個重點就是說在去年的時候因為"},{"start":10340.296,"end":10356.302,"text":"我們在外銷的時候除了絕對關稅以外還有跟競爭對手國的相對關稅的比例那在去年的時候以福田來講因為荷蘭是只有15%我們是20%所以我們相對於比較弱勢那今年因為都是10%疊加"},{"start":10358.062,"end":10377.75,"text":"有比較好的同樣的立足點所以對業者來講他們說現在的過渡期是比去年還好那當然他們還是期待說阿德能夠趕快的內容能夠跟美國確認以後能夠維持著那我想我們現在目前也在積極的正在跟他們美國做確認"},{"start":10378.649,"end":10397.214,"text":"所以部長就如同剛才談判總代表提到的現在不是15%是10%就是儘管總統宣布15%但還沒有正式的實施對川普總統還沒有經過正式的程序所以現在在10%疊加MFN全球一定適用的狀況之下此時此刻我們甚至還有比去年好一點的優勢"},{"start":10398.174,"end":10409.967,"text":"好 謝謝部長那我必須要強調在等待ART的這個落實的這段時間就是首先我們國會要通過那在就是我們等待落實的這段時間針對假設有外銷的品項"},{"start":10411.344,"end":10428.162,"text":"國內的配套也會有預先準備因為我們法律工具非常多特別是行政權他們的法律工具非常多那所以這個部分應該有做好包含這個無貼欄的外銷的運費補貼或者是連年申請的補助假設假設有新的這些變局的話我們農業部都已經準備好了"},{"start":10429.002,"end":10442.687,"text":"我跟委員報告包括我們的農安基金300億還有我們農業部本來的預算我們不會等到R的真正的生效以後才去處理我們現在因為這一次的一個對美談判其實對農業來講是一個機會所以我們對外會確保我們的外交優勢對內我們更會鞏固我們國產品的一個競爭的優勢"},{"start":10451.857,"end":10478.662,"text":"好 那我剛剛提到蝴蝶蘭那因為它是在我們選區裡面是非常重要的一個產品在大林那包含毛豆 毛豆的加工升級的機制還有我們加速拓展日本這些這些都是未來我們聽到有很多我們業者或者是我們鄉親們有希望能夠來去處理的對美國的市場以外我們對於其他的我們主要農產品的外銷市場我們同時會兼顧非常感謝部長那接下來我們要請鞏部長"},{"start":10487.925,"end":10505.413,"text":"那在拱部長到講台之前我們先簡單的來關心一下我主要是針對中南部的機械食品加工之成業的這些聚落在經濟部的壓力預測下我看到機械產業受衝擊的是預估是負1.32那紡織是負1.1"},{"start":10509.235,"end":10537.434,"text":"這些大量集中在中南部的這些產業460億的韌性特別預算的方向有沒有來做一些核准的比例有沒有來比較一下中南部業者佔多少比例會不會有北重南輕或者是大企業吃得到中小企業吃不到的狀況因為剛才我們一直在提到的這些我跟委員報告就是說我們一定都是開放的但是我們座談會事實上中南部辦的是最多尤其是南部因為南部算是傳統產業那如果所以"},{"start":10570.08,"end":10583.868,"text":"好那個細部是不是請用書面好不好謝謝陳委員 謝謝卓院長下一位請黃建豪委員質詢"},{"start":10599.79,"end":10606.192,"text":"好 謝謝主席 主席我們要請卓院長跟鄭副院長請卓院長還有鄭副院長備詢"},{"start":10619.059,"end":10644.63,"text":"黃委員好院長 副院長好我想真的一開始還是要講辛苦了我想代表國家談判壓力非常大那當然談一談之後後來又被推翻的壓力會更大但是不管怎麼樣我想代表國家去做這個事情從國家立場角度來講非常的辛苦也感謝你們的付出但是今天質詢當然還是需要說要把很多的民間的一些疑問來把它釐清首先一開始我想大家最關心的當然還是這個車價問題"},{"start":10646.571,"end":10662.639,"text":"這個美國進口車零關稅的問題第一個是既然談到美國進口車零關稅那其實在車價的結構上面貨物稅可能是很大的一部分在去年這個六月的時候經濟部曾經講過說貨物稅的減免要在這個台美關稅談判之後再來討論"},{"start":10663.652,"end":10676.655,"text":"所以到底這個汽車進口零關稅之後我們的貨物稅第一個有沒有要減免為什麼要提到這件事情我想這個汽車車市停滯的真的是這個事實我們從2023年到2025年幾個數據來看這個2025年的掛牌數只有21萬5093輛那比2023年衰退了14.5%比2024年衰退7.9%"},{"start":10686.917,"end":10701.916,"text":"那我們依據台灣區車輛同業公會的數據2025年就是去年國產車的銷售數據只剩下23萬6千多輛那所以整體來講汽車的銷售不管國產車進口的掛牌數他都是下降了那我想很多民眾也在反映第一個"},{"start":10702.617,"end":10730.31,"text":"不管車商也好 製造商也好 還是消費者也好大家都在等這個所謂的結果那當然大家反而期待說過年前行政院宣布了這個談判的結果是這樣子美國車零關稅那大家可以等待說那接下來後續的台灣的這個汽車銷售的狀況怎麼樣所以我想問一下到底我們現在面對這個美國的汽車進口零關稅之後我國的這個汽車銷售的部分有沒有要 貨物稅有沒有要調整有沒有要去做相關的補償措施"},{"start":10731.59,"end":10759.745,"text":"好 報告委員這個去年真的有一段時間車市是比較冷的因為都存在一種觀察後續關稅定案的一個結果所以車市的交易是比較冷但我們已經調整了貨物稅的界面我們在去年就大約通過了這個部分是不是請部長說明一下是 跟委員報告對貨物稅的部分在114年9月7號開始已經下降了這個是不管是進口車或是國產車都同樣適用的"},{"start":10760.56,"end":10772.665,"text":"在2000CC以下的小客車每輛最高可以減徵5萬元那小型的機車每輛可以減徵2000塊他如果是太舊換新的話那汽車最高還可以減徵5萬塊機車最高也可以減徵4000塊"},{"start":10776.365,"end":10792.757,"text":"所以這個部分因應這個部分我們已經在貨物稅的部分做了調整不管是進口車跟國產車都同樣適用這個院長部長這個是短期的當然我想說短期這個這個政策導向就是說減了幾萬塊但是我們現在進口車跟國產車的25%2000cc以下25%的貨物稅跟2000CC以上的這個30%的貨物稅未來針對這個新的這個的狀態有沒有要調整還是就維持說"},{"start":10804.546,"end":10829.177,"text":"可能撿個幾萬塊的狀況來處理這個部分其實在當時我們都已經考慮過我們認為這個部分是符合消費者需求而且是小型車我們鼓勵用小型車的部分所以這個貨物稅後續即便是美國車進口零關稅之後貨物稅也不會去做相關調整嗎因為我們當初設計就是用定額減稅的部分不是用比例"},{"start":10829.775,"end":10840.385,"text":"那定額減稅事實上對小型車跟低價車它是比較等於是減的比例是比較多的它是有照顧到我們國產車的部分因為進口車大部分是高價車"},{"start":10843.584,"end":10855.868,"text":"現在如果是這樣確定的話那接下來大家擔心當然說國產車整裝整場的衝擊因為院長部長你們在新聞上面也提到一件事情說你們評估即便進口車零關稅進來之後對國內車市的衝擊有限你們數據好像1.1%的數據而已"},{"start":10863.451,"end":10892.24,"text":"但是如果我們從這個去年從2023年2024年2025年看下來我想整個汽車整車的國產組裝的這個衰退啊2023年的時候我們看到的這個產值是2300多億2300億左右到2025年就去年1900億所以整車的這個組裝的衰退大概是400億的空間那如果從2024年到2025年衰退是165億就整車的這個業績的部分那當然涉及到說大家在等待在觀察在觀望嘛"},{"start":10892.74,"end":10918.462,"text":"那其實我要問的是說今天除了這個進口車對消費端來講當然我們希望車價越低越好但是對於廠商對於我們這個要處理就業市場這一部分的這些汽車廠來整車汽車廠來講我們對出口汽車的這個零組件確實是很嚐望但是我們國內這個產業鏈這個整車的部分它其實這個就業市場會受到影響所以這部分的話"},{"start":10919.985,"end":10946.159,"text":"現階段我們有要求國產車35%的所謂自製的比例嘛那最核心的問題是我們的這個引擎變速箱這些東西他還是屬於靠進口所以國產車在面對未來這種汽車零關稅因為你像美國車零關稅我們不知道其他廠牌的車廠的影響的這個進口車子他會不會因為美國車零關稅之後他們調整售價那麼擔心的是國產車如果他本身在"},{"start":10947,"end":10967.382,"text":"這個引擎或變速箱這個進口關稅上沒有減免的話它在競爭力上會不會本身就受影響因為你們只有提個31億左右的經費去處理這個汽車的產業的問題那如果我們的這個國產車的原料 國產車的成本結構沒有改變的前提之下這個30億有沒有真的辦法幫助到還是說這個"},{"start":10968.803,"end":10983.181,"text":"一樣進口其他原國他進口的汽車零組件他的引擎跟變速箱他持續會有這個稅率問題是我了解委員提到的事實上業者也有這樣的訴求啦就是說台灣沒有生產的這些比較關鍵性的零組件"},{"start":10984.663,"end":10998.803,"text":"如果進口的話可不可以關稅下降提升他們的競爭力之前事實上在立法院也有討論這個議題如果說要把這個稅降下來我們希望說可以回饋給消費者把這個車價也稍微下降"},{"start":10999.324,"end":11020.882,"text":"但是後來因為車商沒有這樣的討論立法院就沒有討論了但是我覺得這個是一個時間點重新來討論不過向委員報告的時候因為如果當我們提供美國這個汽車跟零組件也是零關稅的所以包括您剛才講引擎變速箱如果從美國進來基本上也是零關稅所以"},{"start":11022.847,"end":11035.014,"text":"他來做台灣的這個組成台灣的整車的話事實上也享受到這個部分那其他部分當然沒有所以我相信到時候有可能日本的廠商他會從這個美國"},{"start":11037.737,"end":11052.13,"text":"生產廠的引擎廠你的意思就是說未來所謂的國產車組裝的時候我們鼓勵或是可能市場的走向他就會從美國進口是不是這意思零件零件 說零件的部分對 整車還是在台灣"},{"start":11053.211,"end":11079.399,"text":"好謝謝所以我想這個汽車部分大家期待說不管是針對舊式的部分我們還是會持續的跟這個車商因為我要講是30億我說真的你要做這個我不知道30億你說要去幫助他們外銷市場我覺得這個是現實上是有困難的就這幾年的走向就是很困難所以你即便投了30億我想第一個可能效益很差那第二個是我還是回到核心問題就到底我們的整車的這個"},{"start":11081.139,"end":11109.126,"text":"價格能不能下降我覺得這才是消費者真正關心的問題大家看到的是美國車零關稅進來會不會對市場造成衝擊對市場造成衝擊那當然希望所有不管是國產車還是進口車的車價能夠下降但車價下降大家要擔心說這個廠商我們的就業市場會不會受到影響所以這整體我們希望說不是只有3C的問題而是說整體如果既然有一個汽車美國車零關稅的這個契機開始了包含是貨物稅包含說我們這些進口的零件包含進口的這個引擎跟變速箱"},{"start":11109.606,"end":11124.876,"text":"是不是也能夠把相關的關稅做個調整我覺得這個是民眾跟業者想要知道的這個方向啦可以嗎對可以就是至少美國這個部分他是零關稅沒有問題那如果從其他國家進來的部分我們會來核算對於這個產業的這個競爭狀況一併來向我們會跟財政部來做"},{"start":11131.113,"end":11150.373,"text":"好部長謝謝那院長我們持續我想很多委員都關心一樣的問題其實這一次我們談判的結果本來是過年前宣布的這樣子的狀況是非常好的一個狀況大家可以接受包含說我們中部的中小企業大家都講說15%不疊加他們跟日韓競爭他們是有一定程度的優勢"},{"start":11151.434,"end":11178.84,"text":"但是現在這個所謂的他們當初的我們談判的母法ART的母法這個IEPAR的部分他現在被美國的法院宣判違憲無效之後我要問的是說這個法律依據如果被宣判了違憲被宣判無效那我們現在簽署的這個ART因為包含院長包含我們政府院長不斷地強調這件事情是我們ART的基礎還在可是如果在美國內端他的法律依據這件事情被宣判無效之後我們ART的這個架構"},{"start":11179.56,"end":11181.726,"text":"要怎麼研究下去這是我覺得大家最關心的部分"},{"start":11182.523,"end":11210.24,"text":"我請副院長來說明我早上在報告裡面也說到了現在雙方都認為能夠延續原來談判的結果是對雙方最有利的其他國家對美國也大概大部分採取這樣的態度美國也不希望談判的內容再做大的改變這個我知道這個我們就希望這樣做但我們現在談的是法院依據的問題嘛這個怎麼辦所以美方會繼續有一些後續的法律途徑的改變等等那等他完成之後他會通知我們"},{"start":11210.72,"end":11232.339,"text":"那我們是不是跟美方已經取得聯繫了我想由當事人來跟委員做報告報告委員我想今日多位委員都也表達希望我們能夠鞏固ART的談判結果我想這個非常感謝委員對於談判結果的肯定那現在美方因應判決後的這個一二條款是階段性的美方有說明這是過渡性階段性的"},{"start":11232.879,"end":11255.828,"text":"那對全球目前是實價也沒分那接著後續他們會過渡到新的法律工具的安排那我們評估這個安排會相當程度反映談判結果我想這幾天我們跟美方已經取得聯繫那美方也表達說正在進行內部新的法律工具的安排重建政策工具之後會通知已經達成協議的夥伴國家包括我國在內"},{"start":11256.528,"end":11276.493,"text":"那美國貿易代表總統這幾天的發言尤其包含今天我們最新看到他的發言他們也表達說在後續的會透過其他法律工具還是希望實現協議的內容所以我們的目標就是在緊密聯繫當中持續鞏固確保我們在ART所取得的相對優勢的最佳待遇"},{"start":11278.573,"end":11304.739,"text":"那我們問一個問題就是說現在我們在過年前那段時間包括行政院的報告包括我們在各個方面收到的所謂的台灣與美國間對等貿易協定那個文本那個文本現在是定案的版本嗎還是說這個是就像你們所說還要去談還要去調整這個ART以及MOU都是雙方簽訂的協議跟協定那我想美國政府已經說明清楚他們希望維繫跟各國已經談出來的貿易協議"},{"start":11306.738,"end":11334.043,"text":"那我們大家也認為肯定這個談判取得的優惠待遇那現在唯一的差別是貿易協定裡面為美方的這個IEPA的法律可能需要後續他們要重建相關的法律基礎所以我們現在在聯繫溝通的就是美方未來如何重建法律基礎那如何在重建法律基礎後同樣確保我們所取得的優惠待遇所以我想這是目前美方在進行的內部程序"},{"start":11334.523,"end":11359.458,"text":"那我們緊密聯繫我們就是要確保說他的後續的法律途徑安排之後仍然來維繫原來我們所取得的最佳待遇唯一的差別只有美方內部程序的差異所以我們現在立法院之所以還沒有收到正式的文本是因為我們正在跟美方聯繫然後再來瞭解他們對後續這個取代AEPA的相關的法律程序是什麼"},{"start":11359.918,"end":11387.378,"text":"因為一二二是階段性的那現在要看的是他們一二二階段性之後他們要過度的取代原來阿姨爬的這個法律基礎那他們需要一些時間內部來釐清跟重建那他們有告訴我們說會優先通知我們的這個達成協議的貿易夥伴現在那OK那現在大家擔心就是說因為你剛剛提到的這是階段性的所以大家下一個問題是說那150天後關稅的這部分會不會有調整因為今天這樣講"},{"start":11388.539,"end":11402.517,"text":"我們要肯定MOU的部分你說這個高科技產業這都沒問題那個是已經沒問題了這個我們就今天不討論了既然沒問題我們就OK了現在談的說所謂受到影響的是其他中小企業中部地區這些機械業手工具等等這部分傳產的部分"},{"start":11404.159,"end":11432.101,"text":"150年後稅率會不會有影響這個部分你們有沒有在談判的過程裡面有沒有辦法去做任何的承諾因為我要跟院長跟院長說明對企業主來講稅率多少是其次喔對他們來講是到底多少數字才是實際上能夠穩定下來不管15不管20甚至之前最爛的32他們都有辦法去面對當然要去調整他們產業結構啦只是說對企業主經營對這些產業主在產業經營的部分最大的風險是變動性那你今天我們"},{"start":11432.982,"end":11442.294,"text":"我們跟美國之間川普現在宣布這個東西只有150天所以150天到7月的這段時間之後會不會有改變這部分你有沒有辦法給他們任何承諾或是保證"},{"start":11443.032,"end":11467.569,"text":"目前我們看到就是MOU當然不變高科技產業面對不確定性已經下降那當然我們非常關心傳產跟農業的部分就涉及這個ART的這個部分那目前122是階段性的那美方現在就是在這個階段性的期程之內在重建未來新的法律工具那我們要做的當然就是確保他未來的法律工具任何的安排底下"},{"start":11468.349,"end":11490.459,"text":"都要維繫原來的談判成果 鞏固原來的談判成果所以不論他的法律工具是301或是乃至可能其他我們都要確保說我們取得的相對優勢所以委員講的對 稅率數字是一回事但是我們原來有這個不疊加的相對優勢這個相對優勢我們仍然要持續的盡力的去鞏固它我們要再拜託一下 這個30秒 這個院長副院長"},{"start":11493.34,"end":11514.455,"text":"談判團隊很辛苦在第一線我們知道但產業也很辛苦產業這150年的變動他們壓力也很大所以我們現在說因為你們提的是所謂的461的補救措施的補償方案還有當然當初去年我們通過了931的台幣的因應這個國立情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全任性特別條例編了931去做這個相關的處理但是我們要講什麼"},{"start":11515.316,"end":11523.533,"text":"我們看到的政府是提了2500億美金做信保願意去讓中小企業去美國投資但是留在台灣的如果我的這個金額"},{"start":11557.533,"end":11557.553,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":11562.024,"end":11569.56,"text":"黃委員謝謝卓院長報告院會上午質詢到此為止下午2點30分繼續開會進行質詢現在休息"},{"start":14061.93,"end":14062.012,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":17560.156,"end":17560.238,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":21654.229,"end":21669.683,"text":"不太適合吃東西在這裡祝福卓院長各位閣議員各位委員同仁大家元宵佳節快樂闔家平安現在我們繼續進行質詢在休息時間我們元宵會發到各位閣議員手上我們接下來請吳思瑤委員請質詢羅廷偉委員請準備"},{"start":21688.459,"end":21710.988,"text":"好 謝謝韓院長 有請卓院長 鄭副院長還有龔明星部長麻煩請卓院長 鄭副院長請備選經濟部長請備選吳委員好 也謝謝韓院長 袁小姐的祝福大家團圓 一起快樂 謝謝"},{"start":21712.418,"end":21715.084,"text":"是元宵節圓圓滿滿謝謝韓院長為大家所準備的甜點"},{"start":21719.025,"end":21741.904,"text":"那今天的關稅談判呢我們也可以說是獲得了甜美的成果所以台灣is the best of the best台灣已經立於不敗之地既然我們勝券在握就要穩健守成我們不能自亂陣腳更不能夠前功盡棄所以說我們看下一頁"},{"start":21743.021,"end":21771.998,"text":"其實早在我們1月15正式簽訂MOU2月12號簽訂ART我都多次的對外論述台灣關關難過關關過即便有在野朋友們的不斷唱衰甚至把關稅談判定調是國難但事實證明呢我們有了甜美的果實也就是我們的關稅協定創下了世界的三個第一"},{"start":21772.498,"end":21793.755,"text":"以及三個唯一包括對美關稅15%不疊加與日韓歐盟並列第一而且這是美國貿易前五大逆差國的唯一的好成績第二個第一呢就是我們是全球獲得232條款最優惠待遇國家也是目前的唯一"},{"start":21794.557,"end":21816.758,"text":"而第三個我們提出來的創新方案台灣模式以供應鏈合作為目標的自主投資注意喔是企業的自主投資跟日韓被要求是國家投資是不一樣的所以我們的台灣模式也是世界第一更是世界的唯一所以要給予談判團隊合理"},{"start":21818.72,"end":21846.109,"text":"公允的評價該給讚就給讚何況我們創造了三個第一跟三個唯一非常不容易下一頁其實不只這三個第一我們在透明公開接受國會監督這一項也是世界的only one and number one我們不只在談判過程當中就接受國會的要求用"},{"start":21846.869,"end":21873.467,"text":"秘密會議的方式來揭露了台美的保密協議在去年的8月7號我們第一時間在8月份建置了網站供社會及產業可以清楚的因應有第一手的訊息包括去年8月25號跟今天3月3號是第二度兩度在國會談判中以及談判簽署結束我們都進行專案報告"},{"start":21874.528,"end":21889.437,"text":"未來待美方確認之後我們也會把MOU跟ART一併送交國會來審查監督所以針對這四個number one and only one我真的要大大的肯定但是呢"},{"start":21890.629,"end":21904.441,"text":"今天的專案報告我們還是要具體的來回應在野黨委員的質疑其實真理是越辯越明的我非常仔細聆聽上午八位跨黨派委員的質詢其實兩個重點"},{"start":21906.791,"end":21923.13,"text":"兩個重點第一個美方目前遭他們聯邦最高法院宣判違憲美方後續要進行的法律適用的一役那是美國人他們要努力的美國政府川普總統正在因應"},{"start":21923.991,"end":21951.073,"text":"目前先用122條款來因應但未來面對美國的法律的疑義跟釋法性的解套這是美國政府努力的而台灣無權置喙我們要做的是妥善因應而在妥善因應的這個部分我要說今天早上三黨委員其實都已經驗證出一個真理"},{"start":21951.929,"end":21981.17,"text":"就是確保最佳談判成果等同就是肯認目前的談判成果是最佳的委員一直在說是不是能夠爭取確保ART15%不疊加在業黨委員一直在要求力求要恢復2072項全貨免這不就驗證了我們的談判是最好的嗎所以針對我這些觀察院長或副院長有沒有簡要的回應"},{"start":21982.573,"end":21999.245,"text":"委員的三個或是四個第一 四個唯一非常的精闢委員的肯定 我想政府院長以及楊貞妮政府一定很謙虛我代替他們跟你說謝謝因為你的肯定就跟早上幾位委員一樣一直希望我們要堅持"},{"start":22000.529,"end":22021.688,"text":"原來的ART內容是生效的而且繼續有效下去繼續爭取百分之十五不疊加這個就是對整個談判團隊在這個階段所表現出來爭取談判結果與高度的肯定那我們謝謝委員這個肯定接下來我們更重要的工作是跟美方繼續密切的聯繫確認也確保這樣的談判雙方協議的內容會繼續有效以確保我們國家跟產業的最大利益"},{"start":22027.573,"end":22053.018,"text":"謝謝院長我稍後會讓副院長回應也就是說官官難過官官過當亂流來了我們要做的是回到座位上繫好安全帶而不是去改變正確的航行方向所以下一頁我們台灣有三有面對關稅談判就是政府有掌握政策有準備社會有底氣"},{"start":22054.278,"end":22080.495,"text":"我們要確保這個三有是持續正向的推進而切莫未來我們絕對不能夠要的有三步第一個就是優惠待遇不打折對不對確保我們122ART以及MOU的簽訂所以說以享有的優惠待遇不打折還有國會審議不拖延不延宕"},{"start":22081.836,"end":22110.647,"text":"當然我們台灣不能夠成為毀約的一方關稅的協定不變卦不毀約面對這三有以及未來的三不我們的副院長您是不是也再一次對國會喊話最重要的就是國會審議不拖延讓台灣不會成為毀約或是被優惠待遇打折的那一方謝謝委員剛剛對於上個階段的談判成果的完整的說明"},{"start":22111.047,"end":22132.694,"text":"非常謝謝委員的肯定那接下來我們要努力的目標就是如院長所說還有剛剛您所說的就是在後續美方他在透過一二條款後續重建他的這個法律工具基礎的過程當中我們確保優惠待遇不打折也就是鞏固我們原來的談判成果那其實不只是我們努力的目標"},{"start":22133.294,"end":22158.267,"text":"其實這幾天我們可以看到美國政府也逐步釋出類似的訊息那像這兩天的貿易代表署他也表達說會在他們既有貿易法的基礎上來實現的協議內容所以我想我們雙方正在朝這個目標來努力我們正在緊密聯繫溝通當中包含這個視訊包含各種的聯絡方式我們都持續進行中"},{"start":22158.86,"end":22180.041,"text":"所以說有掌握有準備就有底氣我們不打折不拖延就不毀約接下來呢我們來看民意確實也表態了我現在身兼民進黨政策會執行長這是我們二月份進行的民調台灣不分北中南東不分年齡"},{"start":22181.536,"end":22198.21,"text":"超過74.1%的民意期待國會快速審議通過對美的關稅談判而不是在國會扯後腿搞破壞這是民意的展現我們甚至來看政黨支持者"},{"start":22199.251,"end":22221.784,"text":"國民黨民眾黨的在野黨支持者也都高達五成六成希望國會不要惹事當然執政黨民進黨的支持者九成五是希望國會能夠快速來通過所以說雖然在野黨有人在倡議要重啟談判但這就是限國家於不義的"},{"start":22223.479,"end":22239.347,"text":"愚蠢無知的做法這不是我說的這是藍營的有志之士劉寶潔黃偉漢甚至是許育仁前立委說的所以說現在世界各國有哪一個國家要重新談判要退回協議有嗎有這樣的訊息嗎"},{"start":22243.105,"end":22262.001,"text":"目前是並沒有我想我們都說明得非常清楚我們上個階段ART跟MOU的談判結果就是未來面對美方新的替代政策工具下一個最有利的基礎美方也正表達說他們內部因應新的法律工具之後會來通知相關的貿易夥伴"},{"start":22262.641,"end":22268.526,"text":"所以我想面對後續的新的政策工具底下這個已經達成協議的國家我們是能夠持續的來爭取鞏固結果那相對沒有達成協議的國家我們的推估是他們會面對後續不論301或其他法律工具可能更重的結果"},{"start":22286.221,"end":22313.459,"text":"所以說呢下一頁美國不管從川普總統的國情咨文演說到財政部長Besson包括他們的貿易代表Greer也都清楚的說明目前所有的國家跟企業都希望維持現有的貿易協議下一頁我們的主要競爭對象韓國日本包括英國也都強調他們的政府以及國會都會不受影響持續推進這是國際下一頁"},{"start":22316.381,"end":22335.954,"text":"在台灣不管是工業總會 不管是中小企業協會還包括我們學界的中華經濟研究院 台晶院的領導人都說了如果重談 台灣就是主動的撕毀協議我們應當確保戰果 而不是去捅馬蜂窩"},{"start":22337.415,"end":22356.892,"text":"这些都确立了我们就是系好安全带而不是改变航行的方向下业包括呢我要再一次感谢我过去的同事许玉仁前立委他今天正在美国的国会听证他的证词证言虽然是扣合着军购案"},{"start":22357.552,"end":22384.619,"text":"但是他在關稅談判裡頭也表達了國民黨有志之士共同的聲音就是重新談判是不治的包括劉寶潔他說的台灣不要做出愚蠢或是無知的決定如果把台灣推到川普的攝成把位的中心把台灣的優勢全部丟到水中去重啟談判這都是不治更是無知"},{"start":22385.399,"end":22400.715,"text":"那我最後一部分要就教於拱部長事實上下一頁總統很早賴總統就已經撥劃了國家長遠的戰略經貿的目標從過去的西進南向東拓我們要北合"},{"start":22401.976,"end":22424.071,"text":"台灣加一就是美國跟台灣強化合作那這個打造非紅供應鏈台灣要扮演全球半導體民主供應鏈的關鍵角色我認為這不只是關稅談判應驗了這個方向這更是賴總統很早就撥劃的經貿方向是正確的下一頁"},{"start":22424.972,"end":22444.065,"text":"民意也是這樣展現67.9%的人民是支持台灣未來在經貿方向上與美日合作只有18.9%希望能夠重回中國的懷抱這是民意我最後就交於拱部長"},{"start":22445.126,"end":22461.471,"text":"赴美投資是世界的趨勢下一頁其實台灣不只不能落人後更要搶得先機事實上以近三年對美投資存量的成長率台灣還是大有空間比起其他國家下一頁而台積電即便"},{"start":22463.757,"end":22478.967,"text":"赴美擴大的來設廠但是未來10年80%的先進製程都在台灣未來還有10個廠台積電跟流台灣所以我要就交於部長下一頁"},{"start":22479.747,"end":22502.296,"text":"投資台灣是正夯的我要請您幫我們向國人來論述我們招商的成績我們不只台商有能力跟留台灣之外投資全球我們向世界組成台灣隊去打世界盃事實上外商外資投資台灣這是2025年的招商成果1602億"},{"start":22504.957,"end":22509.261,"text":"40%的廠家擴大在台灣營運規模40%的外商擴大在台的產能12%的外資是首度選擇來台投資8%要在台灣設立研發中心包括本席的選區我們迎來了揮打"},{"start":22526.796,"end":22548.264,"text":"這是士林北投科技園區成為全世界AI產業的心臟最大的動能所以請您跟我們說明一下下一頁2025年我們的招商成果以及美商在台灣投資的成果來 舊教育部長八號委員在台灣投資事實上它越來越多元化國家也越來越多"},{"start":22549.38,"end":22567.355,"text":"那從金額上來講 事實上在馬英九政府的時候那時候平均8年的平均大概每一年資金從外國來的部分大概是50億美金那2016年之後到目前為止都超過平均大概超過100億以上就是加了一倍"},{"start":22568.235,"end":22590.121,"text":"這個是只是講說資金從國外來的如果他在台灣賺了錢或在台灣借了錢再投資的部分那金額更大比如說來講這邊有提到比如說NVIDIA AMD或美光單單美光來講從過去到現在投資的金額就超過1兆台幣1.2兆而且他們在台灣30年的紮根將來還會再增加"},{"start":22591.861,"end":22613.119,"text":"所以說美商大舉來臺也是史上新高不是臺灣企業前進美國而已我們魚幫水 水幫魚強強聯手是我們在經貿路線正確下的斬獲在MOU及ART裡面都有雙向投資的條文是 所以我們要強化雙向投資的其實那個線 我們該點站就不站"},{"start":22630.375,"end":22632.796,"text":"好 謝謝吳思堯委員 謝謝卓院長 鄭副院長 龔部長備詢 謝謝接下來我們請羅廷維委員質詢 何新淳委員請準備"},{"start":22649.81,"end":22654.299,"text":"好 謝謝主席 有請我們卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備選"},{"start":22664.179,"end":22688.138,"text":"院長好 院長辛苦了不會不會 大家努力 方向一致我們有看到政府的努力但是我們希望好可以更好所以有些事情想救教許多的問題也希望院長能夠清楚明確的給予一些承諾院長我想社會上很擔憂的是美方如果要求再基改食品進入校園"},{"start":22689.26,"end":22697.639,"text":"在這個部分的話有沒有談判到基改的部分完全沒有改變我們現在國內的消費的習慣跟市場的規矩完基改沒有"},{"start":22698.385,"end":22720.584,"text":"是所以未來也不可能會進入到我們的校園對嗎不會好謝謝你那我想這個如果能夠獲得您百分百的一個承諾對於家長對於整個社會所擔憂的部分我們都希望能夠得到正式感謝委員關心基改食品我們在談判中基改食品管理制度維持不變那校園的學生學校衛生法也不會改變"},{"start":22721.604,"end":22737.932,"text":"因為我們都是也在教育文化委員會也有提出擔憂啦那當時當然不敢百分百的一個確定但是我們今天獲得兩方的一個承諾我想這個部分我們也給予肯定非常感謝那院長其實立法院目前正在審查"},{"start":22738.932,"end":22754.029,"text":"台灣和美國的關稅協議的當下美國跟以色列兩國以及現階段伊朗的一個戰爭這無疑是台灣經貿發展的一個面臨最大的地緣政治的一個衝突以財經的角度來看"},{"start":22754.87,"end":22772.628,"text":"我們現階段上面這兩件事情好像不太相關但是其實對於整個台灣經貿的發展影響巨大的一個黑天鵝如果再加上美股目前由科技七巨頭所引發的AI資本支出的一個黑洞這樣子的黑天鵝以及英國IM"},{"start":22773.989,"end":22797.444,"text":"NFS所抵押貸款的一個破產可能引發的雷曼兄弟的一個黑天鵝以及現在正在加速增溫的中日衝突黑天鵝疊加起來就有可能是台灣不可承受的一個黑天鵝我想在這樣子的狀況之下國際的情勢是瞬息萬變請問一下怎麼看待這些這麼多的一個黑天鵝"},{"start":22799.391,"end":22820.492,"text":"國際很多形勢的發展是互相牽動這是沒有錯的這一次在中東地區的一個軍事的衝突對美國而言他必須花費一些時間去處理這些國際事務也就會讓他在處理跟其他國家談判的這個事情上面難免在實現上會有所衝突所以我們更有耐心的"},{"start":22820.848,"end":22836.597,"text":"也更積極的向美方進行各種必要的緊密的聯繫希望能夠盡快的能夠確認我們已有的這種最優惠的待遇能夠得到確保那麼我們現在更讓我們感到要密切注意的是我們也責成經濟部跟中油"},{"start":22837.057,"end":22854.791,"text":"跟台電對我們的整個能源的供應更要朝穩定多元開發的市場去做更多的嘗試那我們現在已經啟動了整個緊急應變的機制那這個是在戰爭之後所引發的另外一個國際上對我們現在國內民生以及產業上面"},{"start":22855.792,"end":22873.247,"text":"極大的衝突那當然今天我們也看到股市的變化在美國跟其他幾個國家有重大的這個政策宣示改變的時候我們也會受到這個股市的變化的影響所以我們已經要求金管會財政部所有的財經單位緊密的注意"},{"start":22873.687,"end":22893.488,"text":"那目前我們的股市經過前幾波的很強韌的漲勢體質是完好的那我們希望能夠在這角度撐住能夠穩定股市未來的發展我想短期都會有震盪啦但是回歸到基本面但我想講的是在這麼多的黑天鵝當中有很多是政府和民間是無能為力的"},{"start":22894.192,"end":22915.994,"text":"但是我們就要避免被颱風圍掃到但是目前我們可以看到台美關稅協議的是我們唯一政府當中是有機會掌握能夠好好處理的一個黑天鵝所以就叫剛剛我們要問的一個問題是請問一下院長在簽署這個台美關稅協議的時候是否能夠將上述外部的這些進行"},{"start":22916.434,"end":22935.124,"text":"整體的一個壓力測試如果多隻的黑天鵝同時發生政府現行在實際可運用的財政空間以及整個產業的一個調適工具是否足以承接台美關稅協議新增的一個義務跟潛在的一個衝擊如果有做整體的一個壓力測試"},{"start":22936.505,"end":22963.219,"text":"有沒有叫相關的報告呢好謝謝委員我們在去年4月2號美方在宣布對等關稅前後我們都做了一些產業影響評估那麼這一次在這個美國最高法院判決之後我們也進行再一次針對判決之後可能的變化又進行的產業影響評估那這個評估都在我們這個資料當中未來我們依照這個評估再加上"},{"start":22964.096,"end":22981.542,"text":"進一步得到美方對現在所有談判內容的確認跟確保之後我們會進行行政院內部的作業完成之後會送請大院來進行同意相關的評估報告可不可以在會後也讓我們知道一下那我想今天其實上午大家都很關心其實像中部我們的這些很多的傳產"},{"start":22982.909,"end":23010.411,"text":"大家都能夠感受到您的關心其實我們之前也有去拜訪過中科許多的廠商但是我們都希望今天早上聽好像是拱部長也有提到相關的一些關心的電話數萬通然後有辦了許多的一些關心的座談會我們還是希望不管是壓力測試的報告結果讓我們知道以外能夠再將後續的一些我們所謂的黑天鵝壓力測試以及相關的產業的評估公聽會"},{"start":23012.112,"end":23030.684,"text":"是不是能夠多辦幾場以及中部的地區能夠多關心一下我想我們中部的所有的委員也都很關心這一類議題這個部分可以承諾嗎兩個部分一個我們跟產業進行的若干的座談會或是關懷的座談會這個部分我們都可以提供給我們的委員知道"},{"start":23031.198,"end":23058.621,"text":"什麼時候進行了哪些產業至於這個影響的評估我認為我們需要在確定的時候那個影響的評估才出來否則會造成大家議論紛紛因為不確定會造成不必要的恐慌啦這個我們都不希望但是我想說如果能提供給我的部分的一些參考報告那這個部分再麻煩你可以嗎已經進行的過程我們可以向委員做報告好 謝謝你那再來就是第二我們去年11月的時候在財政委員會其實我早就有善意的提醒"},{"start":23059.301,"end":23081.432,"text":"在美國最高法院就川普援引IEPAR的時候我們法案所課徵的關稅是否違憲當時就有展開辯論那時候我就有提醒請政府審慎的評估關稅談判是否應該暫緩避免所謂的法律的一個風險但是我必須要講我不是說今天你們談判的結果全部都說不對"},{"start":23082.133,"end":23096.572,"text":"在成跟敗之間我們沒有要去做一個定調但是我希望剛剛我所開宗明義就講的好 可以更好所以我們希望當時間空間產生出來的時候政府應該要去利用這些所謂的空間"},{"start":23098.233,"end":23126.636,"text":"來換以更多的一個談判機會那當然在這個過程當中你們也非常辛苦但我要講的是在野黨有講我們還是希望政府能夠多聽聽那連執政黨自己的人講也希望這個部分當時行政院前院長前副院長喔對不起施俊吉早就勸台美簽貿易協定的時候呢在等最高等美國的這個最高法院來判決"},{"start":23127.54,"end":23146.632,"text":"那也當時沒有特別去做聽取一個建議我們還是希望這八個字希望院長能夠指教一下我們當然有瞭解到當時社會的一些不同的意見或是各方的來各方的意見但是"},{"start":23147.045,"end":23169.885,"text":"我們會考慮到當時整個談判全世界談判的氛圍以及我們第一場談判現場跟美國進行談判的過程當中這個部分請政府院長來先我們說謝謝委員我想國會的監督我們都非常尊重各界的意見指教我們也都會虛心傾聽那不過在整個各國跟美國談判過程當中其實美國的訴訟程序一直在進行"},{"start":23170.365,"end":23198.403,"text":"所以這個變數其實各國都面對那當然我們都會評估說高院判決的結果不過在這個過程當中美方政府也早已重申不論判決結果他們的關稅政策會延續只是他們會改變IPA替代性的這個法律工具所以各國仍然持續推進談判我國也不例外尤其我國的逆差在2024年是第六大739億那在這個去年倍增到1500億"},{"start":23199.608,"end":23227.306,"text":"所以後續談越久我方的風險是越高的那近來在高原判決之後川普總統本人跟貿易代表署格瑞爾大使等等都有對外說明那這個希望能夠在這個過渡122條款之後會有新的法律工具那屆時會這個也告訴我們會通知達成貿易夥伴國家那我們也推估沒有達成協議的國家後續面對可能301調查"},{"start":23228.527,"end":23254.294,"text":"可能會面臨更高關稅的風險我想他們的法律工具不管是122或是301我們都知道他有很多種類可以去運作對他們政策方向其實會延續所以面對這樣的評估我們認為推進談判達成協議還是一個面對後續變數的一個有利基礎也因此我們今天跟委員報告說我們有信心後續透過聯繫溝通來去持續的鞏固我們已經談到的一個最佳的一個待遇"},{"start":23254.454,"end":23283.812,"text":"我想事實的提醒我們不做批判但是國人擔心的事情是產業過度集中單一市場的一個系統性風險台美關稅協議是否進一步提高台灣對單一市場整個的依存度這個也是我們所擔憂的行政院是否有提出市場分散以及供應鏈的一個多元化的一個配套策略而不是把所有的籌碼壓在美國我想這也是國人所擔憂的院長您覺得呢我們對產業的支持當中尤其經濟部所提的就有一個"},{"start":23285.373,"end":23305.627,"text":"開發國際市場往多元的市場去開發這個部分在當時我們在拜訪台中所有的傳產的時候這有提出但是許多的許多的傳產業者他們也擔憂在這個條件的過程當中會不會是非常的嚴苛會不會不容易申請或是窗口這部分能不能多給予輔助這個部分我們還是要希望能夠帶到我們會盡量越簡化"},{"start":23307.489,"end":23322.458,"text":"越便民越利於產業的需求因為產業是在渡難關不是給產業製造新的麻煩那當然利益良善那對於122條款150天期限後的一個變局我想政府目前有沒有什麼樣的一個預判"},{"start":23324.148,"end":23344.796,"text":"我們已經跟美方取得聯繫那1月2日是一個階段性的一個行政命令那美方後續會有接續的相關的其他法律工具例如301調查當然我也密切關注是否可能還有其他法律工具不過我們雙方聯繫的一個目標就是不論後續替代性的法律工具為何"},{"start":23345.436,"end":23374.601,"text":"那我們雙方過去談判達成的一個共識也就是台灣取得相對優勢的最大待遇我們希望能夠不變所以我們在後續聯繫就是要鞏固我們已經取得的一個談判的成果成果當然一定要守成這個部分我們絕對是無疑的我們也謝謝委員肯定這個前個階段ART相關跟MOU的談判成果是 應該的那我想自從2月19日呢IPA這個關稅被美國最高法院判決違法的時候"},{"start":23375.08,"end":23397.819,"text":"我們不要說台灣廠商不知道怎麼因應連美國海關還有美國本土的企業都不知道怎麼辦所以據統計目前已經超過兩千多家美國大小企業集體上訴索賠這就引發一個問題台灣廠商在過去一年出口到美國的一個報價中有多少是受到這個違法違憲的一個關稅而付出的我們有沒有掌握"},{"start":23398.964,"end":23424.309,"text":"這個請部長來說明早上部長說明過因為包委員因為我們現在的大部分我們是生產商生產商是出口到美國的進口商他們進口商才去報關稅所以說如果要提出訴訟的話基本上是美國的進口商提出來但是我們會讓我們國內的廠商瞭解就是說在行政他們的法律程序上到底會怎麼進行"},{"start":23425.336,"end":23448.412,"text":"如果進口商他有提出訴訟而得貨賠償的話那恐怕我們的廠商也可以跟這個進口商跟進有一個我們沒有辦法提告是我知道我知道但是他有一個相關的權益嘛對可以稍微討論因為當初我們暫時性關係是20嘛那很多廠商是跟進口商有對半說來負擔那如果"},{"start":23449.127,"end":23466.119,"text":"得到了這個補償以後是不是那個獲得補償也可以對半分所以我想說這個廠商到底要怎麼主張自己的一個權益相關政府的一個部門要準備好怎麼樣協助他們這是我們關心的啦好不好就只要你有相關的策略跟具體措施協助他們"},{"start":23466.859,"end":23486.573,"text":"這個部分我想從去年的財政委員會我們的提醒到現在我還是要再一次的提醒好不好就像您說的出口商去做索賠的一個動作但是如果他索賠到了有沒有可以對半分或是怎麼樣或者是要怎麼樣跟所謂的出口商來進行進一步的洽談這部分政府佔的角色我們希望還是能夠給予輔助這部分可以嗎"},{"start":23487.401,"end":23506.321,"text":"可以我們就是透過宣導也好或是我們會請律師來跟這些廠商們有關心這些廠商們來說明這個程序上是怎麼進行的如果可以怎麼樣跟他的進口商有一些討論可以用什麼樣的方法來做一些討論或依據"},{"start":23507.674,"end":23529.113,"text":"好 那這樣子我要跟院長再講就是說已經打了整整四年的烏克蘭戰爭和剛剛爆發的伊朗戰爭明顯告訴我們無人機 機器人 衛星以及完整的上中下游都具備的工業鏈才是一個國家在面對非常時期戰爭衝突才能夠安然度過的護國神山群"},{"start":23529.733,"end":23553.417,"text":"但毫無疑問無論科技電子跟傳產等等其他類別的大小產業廠商他們能夠承受關稅的衝擊黑天鵝的韌性我們都知道差別是有別的但不可能每個人都有辦法承受一定程度的一個衝擊所以如果這些關稅協議的黑天鵝沒有幫那些承受衝擊較差的廠商保留下來活下來的一個機會將來面對台灣"},{"start":23557.018,"end":23567.501,"text":"面對整個戰爭或者其他的重大衝擊的時候護國神山群會變得殘缺不全就更難從民用轉回軍用"},{"start":23583.22,"end":23587.104,"text":"好 謝謝羅廷輝委員的資訊謝謝卓院長 鄭副院長 龔部長備詢 謝謝好 接下來我們請核心全委員資訊吳宗憲委員請準備"},{"start":23612.413,"end":23616.915,"text":"謝謝韓院長我們是不是請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢何委員好卓院長辛苦了"},{"start":23628.922,"end":23653.758,"text":"主委長 我想歷經了一整個上午到現在很多委員都在關心這個美伊開戰大家都非常的關心不管是物價 能源 還有財經狀況所以即使今天早上有很多委員都關心過這個議題我還想再進一步的請教主委院長第一個 我想有關民生經濟的就是物價的問題"},{"start":23654.699,"end":23668.796,"text":"那卓院長有緊急召開六部會來開會全面警戒這個是媒體的用字那交付我們正副院長有關物價的任務那這個物價穩定的小組已經開會了嗎院長"},{"start":23672.169,"end":23700.036,"text":"副院長在院內主要的像工作項目之一也是這個物價穩定的小組那昨天我們是說請他觀察這幾天這個中東地區的衝突事件影響到國內各項經濟的過程如果這個對於物價有異常的現象他要立刻走左手那今天我看副院長有沒有進行相關的昨天副院長就有具體的指示召開物價穩定小組我們已經排定明天早上開會"},{"start":23700.876,"end":23704.782,"text":"那事實上 對 在中東情誼日其實卓議員長在週末的時候都"},{"start":23706.688,"end":23734.73,"text":"即時的掌握整體的情勢交與各部會相關任務為什麼大家會這麼的關心我想民生經濟的物價穩定是最優先第一要務尤其牽涉到油氣供應的穩定跟價格的穩定這個都是息息相關所以我才會請卓院長跟鄭副院長真的是要謹慎以對而且要時時刻刻的掌握"},{"start":23735.29,"end":23757.88,"text":"那尤其今天的股市跌了771點那請問一下國安基金會開會嗎今天沒有因為我們國安基金在1月23號才退場而且他有一長時間在讓我們的股市非常的強韌那目前就前幾天而言我們股市的表現還是非常好"},{"start":23758.39,"end":23783.288,"text":"那一般而言這種戰爭也許他是局部短期的那就影響就會比較小現在我們預期他可能會有一段時間所以我們昨天的考慮是說他如果短期的就會影響比較小那如果他會持續下去尤其是今天美國跟其他國家展開比較有規模性的所謂撤僑行動所以造成我們股市也隨時有所當波動所以我們會持續加強這個關注"},{"start":23784.822,"end":23800.932,"text":"這個就是我跟很多委員都在關心的因為一開始大家認為可能是短暫時間不過看到媒體報導川普他發文他也自己說可能會維持三到四週甚至會有不確定性那這個不確定性就是讓國人"},{"start":23802.973,"end":23815.783,"text":"希望我們政府要做好萬全的準備各項都包含我剛剛講的物價油氣的供應價格的穩定還有了股匯市的一個波動整個都影響到我們的信心問題"},{"start":23819.245,"end":23835.475,"text":"包括剛剛有提到很多國家在中東地區已經開始大規模撤僑事實上早上也有其他委員問到我們卓院長有關當地僑胞跟國人的安全問題這一個因應的措施我也希望政府一定要"},{"start":23836.135,"end":23865.855,"text":"第一個做好安全準備第二個各種不同形式的因應模式每一個方面通通都要小聲應對那我想這個是希望卓院長跟我們行政院全體上下一致讓國人能夠對政府有信心能夠不變一萬變世界的局勢在變有很多的變數不在我們的操控當中但是我們一定要有所準備所以我請卓院長跟各位"},{"start":23866.395,"end":23888.882,"text":"之前我們還沒有考慮到像這樣子所謂比較大規模或系統性的所謂要撤銷但是早上外交部在這裡講我們持續對所有在當地區所有國家的國人我們的國人保持最緊密的一些了解多少人在哪裡那下一個階段整套的計畫我就會要求外交部做出來如果進行到某一個程度的時候我們會啟動下一個計畫"},{"start":23890.287,"end":23915.377,"text":"但如果戰爭延續了一段時間對我們股會市的一個波動的一個影響那我剛剛提到的國安基金會不會開會事實上是不是我們自己也要有所心理上的準備當然我們會仿照過去那個經驗當股市波動到一定的程度之後我們認為國安基金如果有任何的合理的正當的意見來處理的話那麼我們會叫國安基金的委員來討論"},{"start":23916.927,"end":23935.002,"text":"要拜託卓院長大家都辛苦但是這個一定是要穩定物價穩定是最重要的各項的準備措施是要穩定民心為最要務再拜託接下來今天我們在談的台美對的貿易協定ART事實上我要給我們的談判團隊一個大大的掌聲"},{"start":23936.243,"end":23962.392,"text":"國人都非常的肯定那也真的是談出了一個好的結果15%不疊加加上232條款的優惠待遇以及在國家利益產業利益來講對台灣來講都是談到最好的一個狀況但是因為遇到了美國最高法院的判決所以這個產生了不確定性當然我知道剛剛卓院長跟鄭副院長有回答其他的委員說"},{"start":23963.573,"end":23973.612,"text":"這個不確定性是全世界各國都同樣的遭遇不是只有台灣大家都有這個不確定性但是也就是因為全世界"},{"start":23974.975,"end":24002.195,"text":"還有台灣本身的這個不確定性的風險讓大家這個覺得是不是有一點點信心上的一個危機問題那這個我覺得產業要穩定那就必須要政府帶頭來給予最強而有力的一個一劑強心針所以我是必須要請卓院長跟正副院長我還是要再進一步來問不管再怎麼比從過去現在未來這個"},{"start":24005.377,"end":24026.205,"text":"這個暫時性的對等關稅是過去的那我們已經談定簽訂的根據122條款所有的這個現在加未來那我是想請問一下這個我們到底何時可以跟美方完成確定因為呢從早上到現在這副院長的回應一向都是說我們的現在"},{"start":24027.285,"end":24050.552,"text":"即使已經簽訂那為什麼還沒有送到立法院是因為我們還在持續跟美方確認溝通確認那這個我覺得這個時間長短影響很大這第一個第二個我們在這個過渡時期到底跟美方談判或者是洽談的情形是什麼第三個到底預計什麼時候要送交立法院審議"},{"start":24052.019,"end":24077.051,"text":"上午卓院長回憶是說我看媒體的在我們立法院的電視上看到你在這裡回應其他委員說美國有承諾會依序與已簽約國來通知來談我就聽不懂這個依序的意思到底是什麼也許卓院長或曾副院長可以再跟我們說明得更清楚"},{"start":24077.759,"end":24102.627,"text":"我們早上的講法是說美方的政府團隊正在研議後續的做法完成後將通知包括我國在內的已簽署貿易協議的國家我們跟一些已簽署的國家在內他完成他內部的法律途徑法律工具的變更之後他會通知這些國家一次都通知各個已簽約國家還是一個一個來"},{"start":24105.312,"end":24132.704,"text":"這個美國的做法我們當然沒有辦法我想院長跟副院長這個其實是有差異的這個差異是在於時間點因為時間拖得越久不確定性越高那國人的風險意識就更高這個我覺得如果可以的話我們要想盡辦法良善全力的去溝通讓美方可以明確的告訴我們這樣子的一個"},{"start":24134.302,"end":24152.16,"text":"確定到底什麼時候可以有好的結果談判團隊跟美方已經有正式的取得密切的聯繫那這方面副院長也許在做什麼委員報告我們之前是20加MFN那122行政命令先公佈的是10加MFN"},{"start":24153.281,"end":24173.839,"text":"當然川普總統有時候可能會提到15那就要看他們後續進一步的公佈那122是過渡性接著會有可能301或其他那我們的確有跟美方取得聯繫包含跟USTR美國貿易代表署以及商務部都有持續聯繫溝通當中那現在的確取決於美方內部對於122後續"},{"start":24175.94,"end":24202.179,"text":"他們要做比較長久性的相關法律基礎的安排他們內部正在研議當中不過他們也有表達當他們研議之後呢走向清楚之後會通知相關的貿易夥伴所以我想當時包含像我們台灣日韓歐盟等等我們取得相對優勢的國家我們當然也期待也會努力他們持續鞏固給我們相對優勢的一個最佳待遇這是我方已經清楚的表達"},{"start":24202.839,"end":24217.592,"text":"那我們就持續聯絡待美方有任何的新的訊息跟進度我們都會跟這個社會跟產業來說明所以我們努力的目標就是希望能夠在後續政策變動中鞏固到我們原來談判的成果那也在這個變動過程當中"},{"start":24220.134,"end":24247.424,"text":"透明公開讓產業能夠比較知道未來可能的發展來減緩不確定性以及可能的衝擊對我們希望盡快不然以現在這個所謂還有為期150天那表示還有5個月那這5個月當中到底是多久到底是多快這個其實是產業界跟國人的期待我們也都有向美方表達那的確但是美方還沒決定的事情我就沒有辦法當然我們沒有辦法"},{"start":24248.144,"end":24274.621,"text":"幫他做任何的說明所以我說你很辛苦上個階段我們也是一一克服很多變數跟挑戰我想我們上個階段也是這樣子走到我們爭取到一定的成果接下來同樣的目標目的政府院長比任何一個人都更希望及早確認所有談判所得到的最佳的待遇我們能夠維持下來也比任何一個人希望更快的確定這件事情"},{"start":24274.821,"end":24291.021,"text":"雖然說大家都很辛苦但是產業也很辛苦因為在這個等待期或是不確定的期間拖得越久產業的這個競爭力它相對的就會受到更多的影響我們都了解過去一段時間我們產業面對的辛苦"},{"start":24292.843,"end":24311.336,"text":"所以更需要政府除了在談判在這個台美協定的這個確認上能夠速度快一點我們也希望政府的政策引導那當然我要謝謝卓院長我接下來就談卓院長過去就曾經跟國人分享台中精密智慧新核心"},{"start":24311.776,"end":24331.416,"text":"我們政府有推動方案就是希望厚植我們中部的產業政策的引導資源的投入提升產業的國際競爭力這很重要扣住剛剛我們所講的在不確定性的時間過渡期如果能夠有政府的大力支持跟輔導讓產業界"},{"start":24333.798,"end":24350.508,"text":"有一個方向可循可提升自我的競爭力我想這個是我們現階段政府自己本身要做的中央有提了三大策略一個核心產業的雙軸轉型數位跟低碳的轉型一個是現有的核心再造新核心"},{"start":24351.308,"end":24369.058,"text":"接著是希望利用法人來驅動產業創新運用AI 導入AI這三大策略基本上我予以肯定但是我過去一直提醒行政院也提醒經濟部我們希望政府的投資第一個要有效運用第三個要確實到位"},{"start":24370.699,"end":24384.683,"text":"而且希望是整個產業鏈裡面尤其我跟中部其他委員都一樣關心中部最多的機械工具機汽車五金零件手工具等等這些過去所謂的傳統產業其實他們都願意"},{"start":24388.064,"end":24417.185,"text":"科技化 數位化 智慧化能夠再造自己的競爭力這個時候需要政府大力的支持包括AI的導入事實上AI的導入很多的中小企業他們是願意的但是現在它變成內外夾擊外部的國際形勢這麼的不確定性導致他們的訂單是不是會有一個業績上的不確定性內部又面臨了"},{"start":24417.925,"end":24440.484,"text":"我對於政府的這些的支持資源我到底能不能拿得到我到底能不能跟著政府的一個輔導的力量我也可以自我提升我覺得這內外之間政府就必須要做好一個很好的什麼角色這個角色就是真的帶著他們往上提升而這個就牽涉到我現在要跟院長跟"},{"start":24442.986,"end":24471.428,"text":"副院長跟部長拜託的我們希望台中的產業創新還有三支箭第一個我剛剛講資源要到位我當然感謝朝野都支持特別運算韌性的支持方案投入了930億我也希望台中的國際會展中心的二期我們中央有支持現在還沒有動工未來也希望行政院大力支持"},{"start":24473.169,"end":24499.664,"text":"賴總統上一次前一次到台中會展中心一館的開展的時候他就提到全力的支持二期的一個建設第三個我希望產業要轉型人才也要跟著創新來培育所以強化投資 技職 教育人才這是我們必須要做的一個核心價值台灣的競爭力台中的競爭力在於人才人才的培育是一個"},{"start":24501.225,"end":24524.022,"text":"所以這三支鍵我希望院長可以承諾大力的來支持台中可以嗎會展中心第二期我們已經核定會經由委辦的方式應該下半年就可以展開招標的作業培育人才當然是最重要的人才要有充裕因為台中這個就是我們傳統的精密製造中心核心地帶那我們為了讓他雙軸轉型 淨零跟數位轉型"},{"start":24526.454,"end":24530.556,"text":"所以在核心加上一個智慧化的核心讓它成為雙核心"},{"start":24552.349,"end":24554.951,"text":"好 謝謝何新淳委員質詢 謝謝主委長 政府委員長 謝謝國務部長 謝謝貝殉 謝謝接下來我們請吳宗憲委員請質詢賴慧媛委員請準備"},{"start":24583.54,"end":24584.607,"text":"謝謝院長 我們麻煩院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢"},{"start":24595.731,"end":24622.957,"text":"好 委員長好那個諮詢開始之前我還是先代表宜蘭的鄉親對院長表達肯定還有感謝過年那個時候院長有特別有拍板定案就是宜蘭到羅東的這個高價化的這個計畫那當然我們希望就是說今年是馬年那接下來我們可以快馬加鞭能夠趕快讓這個計畫能夠趕快促成否則那個當地這個線內的交通還是有蠻"},{"start":24624.117,"end":24641.483,"text":"蠻多大家有很多的抱怨那另外也對於這個行政團隊的感謝因為過去一年我其實我一直積極在推動幾個東西那行政團隊也給我蠻多的幫助就像那個國道5號那個東山交流道還有這個南方澳漁港的那個漁船上架場的設置"},{"start":24642.222,"end":24660.325,"text":"行政團隊其實都有給予蠻多協助的這個部分先謝謝院長另外對於這一次基層經貿談判團隊在美國壓力下那還能夠盡力的為台灣爭取一些空間這部分我們當然也是要予以對於這個辛勞給予肯定這部分先跟院長報告"},{"start":24662.297,"end":24680.211,"text":"我想今天我們提到我們來談這個ART的事情那依據這個條約締結法我國條約締結法那這個ART那個台美對等貿易協定這個本來就是要送到立法院審查所以今天我們才會一起在這個地方那這個當然也是國會實質審查的一環"},{"start":24681.397,"end":24706.634,"text":"那這次呢比較意外的就是說美國司法對於IPA的違憲那美方現在又改用這1974的貿易法案第122條的這有關臨時關稅的徵收甚至現在還有說法就是說可能會上調到15所以當然立法委員的立場我們當然是要替全國人民把關"},{"start":24707.625,"end":24726.335,"text":"那院長在2月21號你們的官網有寫到這個臨時性的關稅10%這個部分你們認為說衝擊影響有限而且你們都會持續的關注當然你們也還有再提到就是說將來我們可能還會面臨到301條款或是232條款的這些問題所以"},{"start":24729.659,"end":24754.807,"text":"等於是外部的風險以及非常多的不確定性都還在持續的上升那美國他們的法源也在翻轉中但是你也是一直呼籲說國人要相信美方相信這個協議會被尊重那在我的立場我當然會擔心說我們會不會搞到最後這個對等變成是美國說了算美國說了就叫做對等這是我的擔心這是我對未來的擔心"},{"start":24755.387,"end":24770.419,"text":"那再來就是您的報告也寫得很清楚就是美方還在研議中研議完會通知我們那不就代表目前還沒有一個具體的做法他們的具體做法我們還不知道那現在如果說要我們相信或叫國會背書"},{"start":24771.88,"end":24794.751,"text":"那我也會擔心說那這個是對等嗎這個會不會是更高的一個風險所以我們今天一直講說我們要相信美方我們要積極爭取但是這個部分我是希望能夠提供您希望您能夠就兩個部分能夠再用力再給我們一些答覆但第一個在目前LRT的基礎上面有沒有把10%這個部分還有"},{"start":24797.933,"end":24823.012,"text":"上調到15%將來有可能性這個臨時關稅上調15%或者是有可能轉向301對中長期的這個風險情境的評估一起納入這個產業的衝擊報告的評估裡面因為我看到你們有提到有智庫啦那這個部分我想這幾個情境的風險還是要讓國人知道好不好這個部分要請人要做到"},{"start":24825.046,"end":24852.105,"text":"第二個就是說這個對等的意思如果是將來美方如果違反這個協定的話那我們的我們的底牌在哪裡我們有什麼武器可以因應我們的反制工具是什麼那這個反制工具多久內可以啟動這個部分也是我所希望知道的那到底我要來確認一下我們這個ART到底有沒有如同他的名詞所說的是一個對等"},{"start":24852.814,"end":24877.704,"text":"我是比較在意這個部分因為我看了一下那個經濟日報的社論其實他有提到啊他是說什麼台灣跟ARTC存在一些誤判的問題啦而且這是很多產業界擔心的因為他們總是擔心說一下拉高這一下提高那個會不會將來他的利潤會被吃乾媽淨這個是大家所擔心的沒關係我等一下會把一些問題提出來"},{"start":24879.431,"end":24905.728,"text":"那再來就是我們這次那個協定的7.4條的第二項其實有一個這個你們看一下那個PowerPoint上面有他其實有提到這是協定的內容其實不應限制或以其他方式阻礙一方代表或領域或當局為糾正不公平貿易的行為應進行的進口激增等等等等這些"},{"start":24908.946,"end":24925.501,"text":"類似你們看這個文字好了我就不再念出來那這個問題是出在說因為這個第二項寫得很清楚不應阻礙或限制一方代表那這個一方就代表不是只有美方我方也可以嘛對不對我想這個很清楚"},{"start":24926.081,"end":24953.56,"text":"對不對院長是這樣嗎這個讓副院長來說明因為談判的每一個條文每一條每一點都是自制的斟酌我今天很善意的非常簡要的跟委員回應就是通常這個第七節Session 7他主要都是這個協定後去履行相關的這個法律安排那通常這一條比較是一般性的這個國內法律權利的保留條款他其實指的就是說美方他保有他的政策"},{"start":24954.717,"end":24957.476,"text":"這個條款當然我方也是保有我方的這個法律"},{"start":24958.244,"end":24987.391,"text":"跟法規的條款所以這是一個比較一般性的一個法規條款謝謝副院長我這很清楚聽得很清楚好那美方有那請問我國呢因為他是叫做一方嘛他不叫美方嘛那依據這個條文的規定是這個規定是一方那一方也包括我國也是其中的一方那請問一下我國在面對這樣的客觀狀況的時候我們能夠採用什麼樣的措施請問一下"},{"start":24988.082,"end":25014.168,"text":"這個一方當然就是指從每一方來看所以這個沒有問題這個在一般的法律條文裡面他基本上就是一個雙方有他國內的相關的法律條文你沒有回答到我的問題我的意思是說因為他是寫一方嘛那代表美方跟中華民國嘛那請問一下我們有什麼樣的權益可以使用有什麼樣的法律依據可以使用"},{"start":25014.633,"end":25027.032,"text":"就是包含這個任何的法律原判 時間暫停一下吧這個政委可以備許 沒問題 您請上主委委員 那個有一些法條問題 政委員非常熟 原則非常熟謝謝委員 正一方是指雙方"},{"start":25030.557,"end":25055.719,"text":"不是不是 這個不是我的問題嘛我一直說一方是代表美方跟中華民國我是說我方可以採取什麼樣的動作嗎我方就是說當我們認為美國的產品有進口激增的時候我們可以採取WTO上下的救濟措施例如進口限制或是Safeguard或是Antidumping或Subsidy他講的是這種"},{"start":25056.36,"end":25082.743,"text":"但是我方仍然保有我國國內法律保護我國受公平貿易的相關的法律的效力所以我今天就是在問這個問題嘛就是我方到底有什麼樣的反制措施嘛那因為美方的話我們現在動不動就聽到美方說有301232等等的很多的武器要來面對對付其他國家那我才會問說那依據這個第二項所提到的我們會有什麼樣的措施可以提出"},{"start":25083.183,"end":25096.502,"text":"那除了你們剛剛講的那有沒有相關的法律我們的法院依據是什麼有 我們有進口救濟措施在經濟部還有財政部都有貿易法 貿易法裡面貿易法相關都有相關的條文"},{"start":25097.406,"end":25125.512,"text":"好那這個部分其實我回歸我國國內的法律所以我今天不是來問大考大記憶力不是問導大我只是把我的疑問提出來請你們回覆所以當然你們誰要出來解釋我都非常的樂意主外一方代表指的是the other party就是指的對方主外的時候我方就沒有啦我了解啦我說一方是指兩邊都可以所以美方一直在新聞上面提供他們301等等那我也要知道我方有什麼我想"},{"start":25126.492,"end":25152.846,"text":"這個必須要告訴全國人民我們到底還有什麼東西因為我看到就是天下雜誌他有整理到就是說美國貿易代表他有講了說甚至可以提到15%然後他可以那個有足夠的時間讓政府去整齊提動301條款那我也要知道我們有什麼東西可以因應那像這樣子的啟動大概都需要花多少時間有沒有什麼SOP我做我國"},{"start":25154.819,"end":25180.364,"text":"依照我們的貿易法的相關的規定如果要採取進口救濟的話業者可以提出來政府也可以自行但是要經過一定的時間的調查調查期間要調查時間大概多久這個我一下忘記應該至少一定要6個月以上好那這個東西請麻煩都讓全國人民知道再來我想請教一下我看到你們的報告你們的報告提到"},{"start":25181.724,"end":25199.041,"text":"你們有找過民間智庫做初步的估算就是你們認為說這個衝擊性可能沒有那麼的那麼大他的衝擊有限請問一下這個民間智庫是指什麼哪一間智庫這是經濟部這個相關不是經濟部啦你們找的智庫"},{"start":25204.722,"end":25208.089,"text":"是中經院還是台經院中經院 台經院 中和幾家智庫的結構我們可以下載嗎"},{"start":25213.291,"end":25241.702,"text":"就是因為你們現在只有在你們的報告第13頁有提到一個民間智庫那我想請問一下這個智庫的報告細項我要去哪裡看得到還有一些評估行政院召開正式記者會都有請經濟部提供PowerPoint所以會後我們可以不是PowerPoint我是要詳細的智庫的報告可以再進一步提供給委員因為我們如果要提供完整的這些評估報告比較細項那個部分是不是等到文本一併的"},{"start":25243.241,"end":25264.624,"text":"好 那不能這樣好了啦至少讓我知道你們會給我那你們剛剛是告訴了我民間智庫是哪幾個嘛然後再來我是希望我希望完整的看一下內容是什麼因為這個東西其實是很重要的啦因為我必須知道到底民間智庫是幾家你們有沒有做交叉的驗證這個我必須知道"},{"start":25265.084,"end":25286.42,"text":"再來他的評估的狀況怎麼樣對我國影響多大因為我跟各位報告雖然你們就是以政府的角度是這樣看但是民間每個人都挫在蛋啦我想各位一定能夠感同身受他們都很害怕所以他們都會一直跟我們溝通所以我希望知道這些內容好不好我就麻煩你要把資料提供給我這個大概多久可以提供給我"},{"start":25287.48,"end":25314.694,"text":"只要那個確定了我們文本要送上去的時候我們就會把這些比較詳細的怎麼樣估算的內容好那我稍微等一下如果我一直等覺得沒有到我會發文跟你們詢問好不好報告員我們要讓他確定之後最終的影響評估我們把它公布出來否則這個過程像過去3220 15我們都有如果都很詳細全部公布我想在引用上也會造成一些不必要的"},{"start":25315.454,"end":25331.524,"text":"混淆所以我們最終的時候會把定案時候的影響評估公布出來也經過這個民間的智庫來公布出來他們用什麼樣的模型用什麼樣的角色裡面都會完整的揭露沒有問題因為我是看到你們的報告寫因為是太簡單了啦"},{"start":25332.805,"end":25360.694,"text":"因為你們就只有寫說你們的智庫怎麼樣所以說你們現在可以看一下那個PowerPoint上面我有這幾個問題就是我希望說智庫的名稱還有希望能夠把它公開然後我另外也希望知道一個點就是說當時他們在做這些那個評估的時候他有沒有邀請這個工種還有一些協會去做一些了解這個我也必須要知道一下另外就是"},{"start":25362.915,"end":25378.923,"text":"這個你們所謂的適當情況的這個定義這個我也想要反正你們就看一下這上面這幾個點我都希望能夠知道這個也是國人非常希望知道的那還有就是我剛提到三種情狀就是10%或者是上調到15%或者是"},{"start":25382.472,"end":25401.632,"text":"在動用了301這個最不幸的狀況發生之後前面兩項有沒有做出一些評估前面兩項已經做了因為301的部分怎麼樣還沒有就是美方還沒有怎麼樣還沒有說明他的調查方式調查方式調查項目那10%加MFN的衝擊分析以及15%加MFN的衝擊分析已經做了已經用記者會先用"},{"start":25406.097,"end":25429.876,"text":"這個整體說明那接下來我們當然會密切關注他啟動301或其他法律途徑我們都會來積極因應所以我們對跟委員我們講說我們有信心在後續變動中確保爭取原來鞏固談判成果那這樣至少前面兩個了你們說10跟15的部分你們這個已經完畢了嗎那這有沒有辦法兩個禮拜內先給我這個已經可以確定的部分"},{"start":25431.105,"end":25453.436,"text":"我再跟那個智庫了解一下就是說可以揭露到什麼地步因為這個是也是有智慧財產權不過我還是要覺得不是啊這個是公家委託委託這個智庫去做的嘛提供給國會這個應該不是什麼智慧財產權的問題啊但是就是說我看看可以揭露到什麼地步我們盡可能可以公佈的部分全部公佈"},{"start":25456.042,"end":25468.488,"text":"你還是盡快給我啦好不好盡快那個反正你們如果一直沒有給我可能就只好請我去跟你們要那當然你說那個後續的部分因為美方那邊動作還沒有完成那你說不知道那我當然可以接受啊"},{"start":25469.042,"end":25494.292,"text":"但是可以的部分我還是要先去弄清楚到底這些智庫講了什麼那最後其實我還要再跟你們提一個點其實其實像我國也是有很多相關的國內的法律啦那譬如說我們關稅法70條它其實也有一些規範我們可以去因應就我剛講的那個7.4的第二項裡面我國到底有什麼樣的法律依據可以用其實像剛剛你們講的很清楚"},{"start":25494.972,"end":25513.581,"text":"那另外呢 我覺得我們的關稅法也有提到所以相關的因應總是我們要讓人民知道這是一個對等這是一個對等的協定不是說美方說了算所以麻煩一下這幾個東西都能夠把我放到你們的評估報告裡面然後盡快能夠給我 好不好好 謝謝吳宗憲委員 指定謝謝卓院長 鄭副院長 國務部長備詢 謝謝"},{"start":25524.69,"end":25536.218,"text":"接下來我們質詢的委員賴慧雯質詢完畢之後我們將會休息十分鐘十分鐘之後再請賴世保委員準備質詢我們現在請賴慧雯委員請質詢"},{"start":25549.52,"end":25569.097,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝主席有請那個院長跟經濟部長跟農業部部長麻煩再請卓院長 經濟部 國務部長備詢是 謝謝院長副院長不用副院長因為一路以來談判都非常的辛苦副院長很辛苦 請坐副院長是 院長需要"},{"start":25574.424,"end":25598.906,"text":"內委好是 院長內委好我想 我還要農業部長請農業部長備選謝謝我想在這裡還是要非常感謝就是這個談判團隊對這一次台美關稅的一個談判的結果那我們也知道就是說團隊的一個互出它有這麼好的一個成績但是接著而來這個IPAD這個"},{"start":25601.921,"end":25615.891,"text":"這個被裁定的違法近期的那個經貿局勢似乎又有一些變數那我在這裡要請教就是說 院長那我們的AIT是不是具有法律的一個約束力呢"},{"start":25616.704,"end":25642.512,"text":"我們希望不僅我們希望啦現在台美雙方都認為持續讓已經談妥的有協議的這個部分能夠繼續進行下去應該是最符合雙方最大的利益其他各國也應該多數都是這樣的態度所以我們跟美方進行建下的密切的聯繫當中就是要確保我們已經得到的這些在談判當中ART以及MOU當中所獲得的最佳的待遇"},{"start":25643.112,"end":25665.391,"text":"是 所以我想院長就是說其實ART的優惠不會縮水這個是我們的一個主張可是我們需要做讓步我們的籌碼會不會升遍會不會有這樣子的一個可能因為在現在如果法律的工具改變用122的話有一些美方他是全球豁免"},{"start":25666.158,"end":25680.754,"text":"那原來只針對我們豁免的項目在全球豁免當中我們可能原來的優勢會相對的減少或者是說對我們本來有豁免的項目他現在並不在豁免的項目當中那這個也是降低了我們的競爭力這當然一二跟"},{"start":25683.274,"end":25708.569,"text":"IPA當中會有若干的差距所以我們現在希望是回到原來的談判的內容依照原來ART簽署的內容是對我國最有利的這個是對我們是最有利的那我還是想再請教一下由院長的口中再一次就是說跟大家做一個報告就是說這一個2500億的投資的籌碼是不是也是繼續"},{"start":25710.976,"end":25730.291,"text":"2500億是產業自主性的投資那要看產業他做全球佈局的時候他怎麼來規劃他未來在全球上面的投資行動但是跟留台灣以台灣為關鍵領先地位的這個角色地位是不會改變的而且他做任何投資都要經過法定的程序"},{"start":25730.814,"end":25758.76,"text":"沒有 燕子我知道就是說這個2500億我講的就是說這個台灣提供的一個信用保證的這個2500億是不是繼續存在這個要看我們的產業如果進行國外投資的時候他到底需要到什麼樣程度的信用保證那我們以上線2500億美金的這個上限作為整個投資的上限但當中我們經過保證乘數以及比例的分算我們應該"},{"start":25760.037,"end":25784.366,"text":"分做五個階段來進行第一個階段我們所必須準備的應該大概60多億的美元那這個已經在準備當中所以說也是會繼續的一個執行因為我們要求美方的承諾跟我們的有利的部分要履行我們也認為我們在這個相同的條件底下我們已經答應的部分我們也要做到所以說我們國家的堅持還是不變"},{"start":25786.066,"end":25802.661,"text":"對好謝謝院長接著我請教經濟部長就是中小企業其實需要一個更明確的一個方向當然就是說你是不是可以結合這個鼓勵中小企業站上國際的舞台是我今天執行的一個重點那我們看到了經濟部你這個有一個創意"},{"start":25803.562,"end":25824.885,"text":"那個企業創新研發催念的一個計畫那在這個計畫裡頭我們看到了這幾個大綱是不是部長可以就是跟我們做一個更明確深入的一個那個說明一下因為我們希望這個政策講得更清楚這個支持的力道會更強那個經濟部長是不是可以回顧我這一個問題"},{"start":25825.746,"end":25843.213,"text":"包委員我們現在針對中小企業也好或傳統產業都希望他們可以雙手轉型智慧化的轉型也好或淨零的轉型這個是那我們會提供輔導來協助他們當然也有一些太舊歡欣設備上的一些補助會增加的"},{"start":25843.693,"end":25865.601,"text":"那如果說您剛剛這邊提到的是Aplus計畫如果他是有產業鏈一起來不是只有一家公司來申請他跟他的供應鏈產業鏈關係一起來申請而且創造出更多的產業鏈效果跟就業那我們就會通過這個Aplus計畫來支持他做這樣的研發的一些工作"},{"start":25866.021,"end":25889.213,"text":"好部長這個Aplus計畫是不是只有受限於就是一個大的企業還是說這個中小企業就像你講的我們打群戰其實也是我們國家也是一樣會支持他要有一個主體性的企業然後這個主體企業他可以難掛住他很多的這個供應鏈廠商一起來做那我們也歡迎但是"},{"start":25889.853,"end":25897.451,"text":"Aplus計畫主要是針對這個研發的部分來支持那如果說像其他的他要帶整個"},{"start":25899.915,"end":25922.925,"text":"整個國家隊也好或整個團隊出去經營國際市場那我們有另外的計畫來支持他們是 我想部長就是說我們一定有信心就是說政府會帶著產業打贏國際盃可是我們現在擔心的就是說這些產業會不會只落在科技產業AI產業 機器人產業而其他的產業我們就把它疏忽了"},{"start":25923.605,"end":25945.531,"text":"會不會是這樣子報告委員事實上我們那個930億支持方案當然我們經濟部分配到的額度是460億這460億絕大部分可以講90%以上都是用在傳統性產業跟中小企業所以90%是用在傳產因為232的部分比較沒有受到一些影響受到影響的就是"},{"start":25946.295,"end":25971.958,"text":"我們剛剛提到的所謂的傳統性產業也好或中小型企業也好然後那個部分我們的資源大部分是用在這邊還有就是說 院長我們其實也擔心說122條的條款到期了150天到期了我們怎麼還換301跟388的一個條款的衝擊這個倒是就是說我想就是從早上到現在院長也講了很多很多"},{"start":25973.199,"end":25990.029,"text":"當然我們比較擔心的就是除了我們是農業縣市以外在這個農業上的一個對等關稅的一個協助那也相對的就是要請教院長說會不會像歐盟就是暫緩這個四個月就是我們先慢一點來審議會不會有這樣的一個結果"},{"start":25992.148,"end":26016.801,"text":"現在大多數的國家都希望依照原來的談妥的協議內容來繼續生效那美方因為現在他必須就他國內的法律途徑法律工具做調整那現在又發生了這個中東事件的衝突我認為會分散一點注意的時間跟力量但是我認為能夠儘快的定案還是我們最高的上策"},{"start":26017.641,"end":26033.611,"text":"所以我希望我們能夠儘快跟美方取得一個如何的共識點他如何來印證說未來雙方所談妥的這些協議內容會繼續有效他只是變更他裡面的法律工具法律途徑如果我們拿到這樣的部分我想請大院"},{"start":26034.051,"end":26059.479,"text":"也能夠緊述的合理的審慎這樣的工具對照起來能不能讓這個談判的效果及早的生效我方生效 美方也生效雙方就能夠進到一個穩定的關稅狀態當中好 謝謝院長那你就講得非常的清楚嘛你希望快這是盡快的來就是做這樣子的一個執行面的一個協議這個是我們行政院所做的一個準備"},{"start":26060.94,"end":26078.579,"text":"接著我想就是說跟農業部長做一個探討這300億的那個農安基金是不是有辦法來迎戰我們這個台美對等關稅未來就是說在整個農業不管是從進口我們先從進口開始來講"},{"start":26079.6,"end":26106.262,"text":"就是米尤其我們台南其實我們台南的米就是非常的多那我們也謝謝就是談判團隊守住了這一個稻米的延稅率那非常感謝可是一樣我們就是對稻米進口關稅其實我們長期的一個關心在這裡我希望說部長你可以很明確的講出來對於這一個米你可以做更深入的一個怎麼樣的協助"},{"start":26107.143,"end":26128.723,"text":"因為這是一個機會謝謝委員我想對米來講雖然說我們已經很明確的守住了但是我們更重要就是要讓我們國產農產品的優勢繼續保持同時更有力量能夠外銷所以我們在300億基金裡面不會因為我們守住了我們就不會去支持它我們反而會針對整個產業的國產品的韌性會更加強"},{"start":26132.725,"end":26160.028,"text":"好 那就是說我們已經就是要求就是在美方的要求前面就是開放那我們也堅守住這個農業產業的一個利益那再接著我想這個我要跟你請教就是美國的液態乳液態乳的連關稅這個對我們的一個很大的一個衝擊你可以告訴大家這個液態乳是什麼樣的東西因為洛隆區在我本席的選區裡頭"},{"start":26161.676,"end":26187.072,"text":"我想義大利是我們需要持續關心的但是我舉一個例子就是去年台乳零關稅的時候大家都非常擔心紐西蘭的牛奶會大量進口但是從去年的整年的整個的一個進口量來講只有增加了百分之零點八左右所以換句話說其實我們在去年所啟動的相關的政策去支持產業是有效的"},{"start":26187.492,"end":26211.502,"text":"那同樣的這是美國的進來的時候我相信特別在鮮乳的部分從去年的資料來看紐西蘭的鮮乳有提高但是美國的鮮乳就有下降所以這些鮮乳進來的時候應該會跟紐西蘭或者是澳洲彼此之間相互競爭但是我們還是會持續的去針對酪農產業去加以扶持"},{"start":26212.142,"end":26232.652,"text":"怎麼扶持呢我希望有一些比較具體的方式第一個部分就是我們國產牛會繼續做有效的淘汰讓他的生產效率提高第二個部分我們會針對所有的牛籍做全方位的保險強制性的保險那還有再補充他什麼"},{"start":26233.571,"end":26253.551,"text":"對 然後相對的再來就是他們的集乳器他們的生產設施設備我們還是會持續的去做協助更重要的是我們在行銷端的部分我們去年做得相當不錯很多手搖飲店都是用鮮乳的部分所以後端的這些鮮乳的拉力如果拉高的時候前端的這些生產就比較安心"},{"start":26254.031,"end":26272.17,"text":"所以說產業的工具我們會用最低的一個利息的一個補貼讓他們在這一個工具上的一個升級還有就是說我們的手搖乳電我們也會像去年一樣就是說要求他們就全力配合國產的這個那個這個鮮乳嗎是不是這樣子"},{"start":26272.811,"end":26297.647,"text":"是的我想整個的國產的市佔率還是90%我們還是維持這個目標同時我們的力道絕對會比去年還要強特別像金融的支持我們一定會繼續做特別是保險的協助的部分還有一個部分就是最重要是後面的品牌的行銷特別是在台灣鮮乳唯一選擇我想我們會做更大的力道的來推廣"},{"start":26298.627,"end":26319.268,"text":"我們一句話很簡單的跟委員報告就是鮮乳我們國產鮮乳國內的市占率很高那未來我們還是會讓我們國內的鮮乳看到的鮮乳就是指國內的鮮乳鮮乳跟保酒乳跟牛乳我們會在市場上分割就是說你們會就是更積極的幫台灣牛奶正名進口會進口國之間互相的競爭"},{"start":26320.089,"end":26335.522,"text":"那更嚴重的還在後面我的豬肉這個豬肉的進口關稅減半他是不是會衝擊到台灣的養豬的產業你知道就是在今天這個禮拜天的一個開盤2月23號的一個開盤這個豬肉價"},{"start":26340.406,"end":26361.093,"text":"那個作價的成本是一斤80塊結果他掉到了77塊甚至還有掉到了50塊都賣一家當然現在價錢有稍微上揚上來可是這也是針對的就是要提醒部長就是說整個就是我們的補貼的一個策略是不是有待檢討因為當我們"},{"start":26363.434,"end":26389.309,"text":"去補貼那三家冷凍廠的時候冷凍廠他到了那個他也是生意人他不會像政府一樣是這麼照顧豬籠的所以我覺得是不是應該我們應該深刻的去檢討是不是我們的我們自己農業部也應該要有一個自己的冷凍廠這已經講了好多年了第一個我跟委員報告就是開春後的第一天的確價格有降到77塊"},{"start":26390.546,"end":26418.535,"text":"那相對的只有那一天其他的都是在82到85甚至有到90塊的部分所以我想整個的市場機制裡面我們會密切的監控第二點就是說整個的冷凍廠我想由政府坐東去處理冷凍廠是最下策如果我們把冷凍廠是維持在全台灣的各地的時候那現在大概可以維持一個月整個冷凍廠能量可以維持一個月那第三個部分就是"},{"start":26419.591,"end":26447.37,"text":"美豬的進口因為這樣的一個思維所以說遲遲都沒有我們自己的一個農業部還是台糖的一個冷凍廠然後你讓這些冷凍廠的這一些廠商一直不斷的獲利我當然知道你不是要圖利他們可是我想這個政策面我們還是可以再溝通我想好部長再回到蘭花那個蘭花這個到底到底這個對等關稅有沒有疊加沒有疊加"},{"start":26450.912,"end":26478.163,"text":"這個蘭花蝴蝶蘭到底他現在的關稅是多少我跟委員報告現在那個阿德的零關稅現在還在確認但是他沒有不見但是對業者來講他比去年的20%疊加還要好因為現在變成10%第二個重點就是在去年的時候我們的20可是我們的競爭對手國是15所以換句話"},{"start":26484.244,"end":26509.093,"text":"所以我們希望說在這樣的一個短暫的10%的疊加的部分能夠盡快的話能夠確保我們阿倫的內容是對的好 林卓傑副長那院長我還是要問一句我的理念啦 之前是雲霄鎮所以你覺得這個民俗短暫的還好 還好所以我們如果我們爭取確保原來的談判內容的話它就會回到原來的控制這樣"},{"start":26513.55,"end":26526.961,"text":"好 謝謝賴慧媛委員質詢 謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長貝群 謝謝下午的專案報告會也謝謝上半場我們謝龍介委員從頭陪到尾 謝謝賴世保委員陪同我們現在休息十分鐘 謝謝"},{"start":27152.543,"end":27155.624,"text":"謝謝韓院長以及各位先進有請這個卓院長以及我們的談判的長官我們的正副院長還有經濟部長一起"},{"start":27182.355,"end":27184.918,"text":"麻煩再請卓院長 曾副院長 經濟部長備選內委員好好 三位長官好 辛苦了今天卓院長整天都坐在這裡辛苦"},{"start":27202.571,"end":27226.008,"text":"不會 聆聽到很多好的意見對團隊有很多的肯定我們一起努力一起來努力啦齁但是我這個監督立場還是要講一點話啦就目前來講因為早上我聽了幾個很專業的一個質詢你們都很誠懇回答這點是可以肯定的齁但是我希望也是我的問題能夠實問實答啦"},{"start":27228.67,"end":27251.74,"text":"就現在ALT的狀況是怎麼樣暫時不生效是不是暫時不生效本來就沒有生效啊因為還沒有送到大會來審議之前當然沒有生效本來就沒有生效那什麼時候會送到立法院我們就等美方他完成他國內的法律途徑跟工具之後他會通知我們"},{"start":27254.643,"end":27274.402,"text":"這個真的我們無法說是 我們是盡量盡快來爭取我現在就說給你聽啊以現在來講的話這個早上你們幾位都講了啊副院長也提到了啊現在目前是10加N嘛 對不對有可能變成15加N嘛15加N沒分是還沒有以行政命令公布是川普總統口頭說"},{"start":27276.824,"end":27298.016,"text":"然後維持150天所以我們可不可以這樣講150天也就是五個月裡面這個台美的關稅協定不會送來立法院我可以這樣講嗎這要看美方他行政命令122條款是150天但是在這個期間美方會安排"},{"start":27298.656,"end":27327.128,"text":"他後續的比較長久性的法律工具所以美方我們詢問美方美方有暫時的回答是說等他們研議安排法律工具之後會通知貿易夥伴國家這個就的確是必須要美方進一步的充確那我們的立場是希望一塊也好啦所以我想委員可以表達這樣的聲音我們有聽到我們當然希望一塊也好但是我們可以講我們要向美方來表達這樣的想法我最慢最慢"},{"start":27328.319,"end":27332.413,"text":"大概五個月他應該會出來五個月以內一定出來可以這樣講嗎"},{"start":27334.282,"end":27362.314,"text":"5個月是他暫時這個附加稅的時間5個月之後他還可以透過他國內的法律程序延長我可以樂觀期待好不好還是悲觀期待我不知道你可以樂觀期待在5個月之內所以5個月裡面沒有這個東西他是1月2條款150天當然經美方國會同意會延長不過我們的目標當然希望越快越好所以委員的聲音我們都有聽到我們會積極跟美方表達他的"},{"start":27362.714,"end":27368.882,"text":"從早上到現在十幾位委員肯定團辦團隊談出這個ARK協議我想委員今天早上的肯定遠遠"},{"start":27381.155,"end":27407.83,"text":"遠遠都高過於我對他打分數的這個給社會的公信所以你給他100分我們不敢為自己打分數我們知道這個過程產業的等待跟包容副院長你要小心他幫你打100分你就慘了他叫你去選台北市長他叫你去選台北市長也只有100分的副院長可以去選台北市長我現在的生活裡面關鍵字就是關稅兩個字"},{"start":27409.955,"end":27423.109,"text":"你去選台北市總統 炮灰啊我生活裡面的關鍵字是這副院長 炮灰啦我現在意思不就是要趕快鞏固我們的台北市政府啦你這樣講我可不同意喔這個院長啊你有看少康政經事嗎少康政經事你有看嗎"},{"start":27426.567,"end":27452.772,"text":"那個比較少看我看啦齁我講昨天我上節目我還公開講連續兩個禮拜我說最適合的人是卓榮泰不是鄭麗君卓榮泰現在你去選好誰好誰你又不是鄭麗君啦你可以請教一下郭震亮先生對不對你比他適合我比較適合對不對我們副院長同意嘛齁我跟院長每天都在討論政務"},{"start":27455.97,"end":27471.725,"text":"選舉是政務啊 選台北市長選舉是選務因為大家都不願意去當炮灰啦你就是這樣而已這樣講我不同意這句話你給他這麼高的評價但是我們來看我們來看進口的部分"},{"start":27473.693,"end":27483.742,"text":"蝴蝶蘭茶葉等級上百項這個農業部長都知道很清楚本來你的ART是零關稅現在變成10加N要課了現在怎麼辦"},{"start":27488.141,"end":27514.473,"text":"剛才就委員關心啊雖然我不是農業縣的委員 可是我也關心啊所以我希望鞏固ART的談判結果所以回過頭來嘛 我們希望確保ART這個已經談妥的內容要不要課 我就問你要不要課嗎 現在要不要課已經生效了 你要不要課現在是10加MFN現在伏跌欄要課稅了嘛但是現在之前是20加他也要課稅了嘛"},{"start":27516.754,"end":27526.037,"text":"現在的之前是20加MFN0並沒有生效因為ART並沒有生效原來蝴蝶藍MFN是0那你汽車零關稅是不是確定"},{"start":27531.837,"end":27547.992,"text":"那要等到大院通過生效以後再修這個關稅法來為生效所以這個關稅前面有委員問 我很緊張你聽的啦我覺得要怎麼營運影響很大咧"},{"start":27549.213,"end":27569.24,"text":"影響很大咧30萬的從業人員從汽車業加上汽車零組件的從業人員30萬他是包括了零組件還有一些銷售人員有沒有然後就具體啦有沒有可能對關鍵的零組件我們也給他降為零關稅有可能嗎"},{"start":27570.88,"end":27589.537,"text":"如果生效的話美國的關稅 領主権關稅進來是零關稅日本來的 日本來的 安靜很多跟日本買的啊日本來的可不可以零關稅啊那就是看立法院跟我們財政部的態度財政部齁 財政部長坐在那啦但是我就講啊"},{"start":27590.578,"end":27605.723,"text":"如果汽車是零關稅我就要修法讓關鍵零組件通通零關稅阿如果汽車全部垮了阿是啊 阿如果是這樣也請委員就是說這樣的降稅可以回饋給消費者當然啦 當然啦 這個當然要回饋給消費者啦我們來看齁 現在你講 縣長說改了 副縣長說改了這樣結果我們現在投資 最少投資20兆"},{"start":27618.668,"end":27639.689,"text":"2500億直接投資2500億信保投資還有800多億的買還有我們要去蓋它的天然氣的Alaska的天然氣的infrastructure基本設施1000多億的美金加一加就20兆以上我們還被人家罵台灣是晶片小偷勒"},{"start":27642.338,"end":27651.129,"text":"川普總統講了六次從他選舉開始選前選上之前講三次選後講三次阿最近跟你講阿你覺得你們同意嗎不同意阿不不我們院長你同意"},{"start":27659.622,"end":27675.787,"text":"我們晶片是靠我們國內企業自主研發各種新的製程所造成晶片在取得全世界領先的地位事實是原來美國不錯交給日本後來日本交給台灣"},{"start":27678.508,"end":27704.237,"text":"我們有跟美方說明台灣的半導體產業是數十年我們發展初年來的成果川普現在是世界強人他講話多有影響力啊但是我要請委員記住副院長回來那天講過一句話全世界看見台灣產業關鍵的力量這句話才是對台灣真正的寫照川普要看見啊川普到現在為止他選前講三次選後講三次"},{"start":27705.297,"end":27733.622,"text":"選前講三次美國有他選前講三次來2020競選時就講了接受彭博也講了喬羅根的體驗也講了然後選上以後關稅備用錄2月就講了20253月就講今年2020又講今年又講六次他是美國總統他的喇叭很大"},{"start":27735.148,"end":27762.988,"text":"他現在全世界大家都很怕他也很尊敬他 哇 川普 厲害對不對 台灣很怕他我們的政策就是抱著大腿市長他也稱讚過台灣的半導體的產業非常棒也講了非常多次但是他又說小偷咧你也要抗議一下 你不能講一下那個院長你要不要講一下說這是美國你不做了交給日本 日本話交給台灣"},{"start":27765.129,"end":27775.475,"text":"所以我們有自主研發把他的整個製程給他提升到現在這種程度那全世界也沒有辦法有人可以學習上我們現在這樣的製程這樣的良率所以"},{"start":27776.448,"end":27794.978,"text":"川普總統也說過我們魏哲佳董事長他是一個類似的沒有沒有我希望你在這裡我問你一件事委員容我也跟您補充一下我們也清楚跟美方表達台灣半導體產業讓我跟您補充一下台灣半導體產業是台灣數十年來發展出來的一個成果那"},{"start":27795.518,"end":27817.378,"text":"美方有他想要振興製造業以及他要提升他辦理產業自給率的目標不過我們跟他所談的是供應鏈的合作是以台灣模型企業自主產業延伸的一個前提底下來跟他進行產業的供應鏈合作所以我們還是有我們自己的戰略目標來達成這個組織MOU的共識"},{"start":27820.06,"end":27831.763,"text":"在這裡雖然我們的喇叭小 沒關係我們就自己大聲講出來我們不是新輩小偷 可以 請你講我們都講過了我們一對美方也都講過了台灣的先進製程早遠超過當初我們你表示你講了你講了川普不買單了還繼續講啊來 我們來看喔 這個東西大家很擔心啦"},{"start":27847.288,"end":27875.35,"text":"我們的晶片這個台積電去了要總共去五個場大家很擔心這個工作機會年輕的、年輕的可能沒有了有人統計過台積電在國內一直找人一直找人都找不到你不要一直插嘴部長不能一直插嘴院長比你有修養院長都沒有插嘴你一直插嘴反映一下請你不要插嘴請你不要插嘴大家擔心有這個擔心我們下一代"},{"start":27876.65,"end":27895.764,"text":"原來好的工作機會可能要去美國啊不是每個人都可以去美國對不對現在來講的話怎麼樣跟流台灣 雖然你們講很多啦齁我就提一個建議具體的建議請你們承諾所有去美國投資的沒侵犯"},{"start":27897.774,"end":27912.568,"text":"對等投資沒侵犯投資一塊錢美國投資一塊錢台灣可以嗎?做得到嗎?可以嗎?請部長請院長公開在這裡承諾一個立委你先不要講我問院長你不是院長你是部長院長請你承諾"},{"start":27919.733,"end":27930.78,"text":"我們在對外的投資都要經過我們國內的投審在審查的過程當中我們第一個希望他要跟留台灣跟留台灣有很多的方式這個是其中一個很具體的"},{"start":27932.141,"end":27954.422,"text":"在國內要投資是台灣在國外加一不是把台灣移出去產業是加一我做過啦我們跟劉台灣的方式這個很具體的就是這個樣子一定要在台灣保存他產業的力量委員我們是加法不是減法"},{"start":27955.143,"end":27975.589,"text":"自產業的延伸不會在台灣減跑一定擴大投資台灣現在企業都在積極的擴大投資台灣我們也在推動擴大投資台灣方案我們現在的審議其實就已經要求這樣了已經要求這樣對 已經要求這樣國內投資一定要有我們才會放行"},{"start":27980.29,"end":28006.185,"text":"投資一塊錢美國 投資一塊錢台灣有嗎對 包括更多要投資國內那這樣子我們就可以期待我投資五千億美金就投資五千億美金在台灣單一企業他們就是這樣子我們在審議Case by Case就是這樣子我們產業在國內投資的規模大於在國外我打一個很大問題給他們看那個從美國打伊朗這件事不管怎麼樣"},{"start":28007.543,"end":28035.878,"text":"川普總統這兩天又講了他說打四周到五周可能他更長不排擠地面部隊去這對我們來說台灣96%的人員是依賴進口的經過荷姆之海峽的60%石油 1 3的天然氣經過荷姆之海峽他現在全部關閉他說不准一滴油跑出去對我們來講很大壓力喔"},{"start":28037.516,"end":28063.473,"text":"這個東西你們說會找替代的請問找其他哪幾個國家 不知道你可不可以回答報告委員因為我剛才講就是說我們現在天然氣的部分大概有十幾個國家嘛那經過你剛才講河北溪海峽大概有差不多百分之二十幾到三十沒有錯那我剛才講就是說替代找哪些國家來用時間到了對 深月份的部分我們都已經找到了找哪幾個國家替代的"},{"start":28064.754,"end":28067.376,"text":"這時候我們的油價因為有一個公司萬一他漲很兇 現在開始一直漲院長 要不要啟動動漲機制 要不要"},{"start":28082.984,"end":28091.312,"text":"因為我對國內的民生經濟造成重大的衝擊的時候當然整個省業就會處理這個東西包括電價這個都影響到我們的CPI影響到民生請幾位長官謝謝賴氏鮑委員 謝謝卓院長 鄭副院長經濟部長貝馨 謝謝"},{"start":28121.869,"end":28126.651,"text":"好我們接下來請李坤澄委員請諮詢徐宇貞委員請準備好謝謝主席我們請我們卓院長還有鄭副院長麻煩再請卓院長鄭副院長備詢"},{"start":28158.991,"end":28168.963,"text":"李委員好院長好 副院長好那今天是元宵節先祝福我們所有行政團隊元宵佳節愉快大家平安能夠團圓"},{"start":28171.648,"end":28196.77,"text":"這個今天就教就是說講關稅的問題那不過我還除了關稅之外我還想講軍購也會提到說這個能源的問題這個鞏固台灣安全的三大關鍵基石第一個經濟的防線就是台美貿易跟關稅第二個國防的防線就是國家安全就包含軍購在內第三個是能源的防線是中東戰火下的供應鏈我先來請教一下這個我們院長"},{"start":28197.771,"end":28218.164,"text":"那因為本來我們跟美國都談得很好了我們的這個ART我們15%不疊加然後有最惠國的待遇2072項我們豁免關稅然後呢MOU談得很好包含這個我們這個高科技的產品我們資通的產品半導體我們有最惠國的待遇"},{"start":28219.004,"end":28238.114,"text":"但是因為現在美國的大法官判定了這個IEPA說它違憲違憲但是他們行政部門工具箱裡面工具很多他馬上拿出來這個122條款那122條款目前是10%再疊加MFM那未來有可能到15%"},{"start":28239.855,"end":28267.075,"text":"我想請問一下現在也很多立委都很關心現在我們本來談定的這個ART跟MOU其實都比未來10%或15%加上這個疊加關稅都還要好但是我們也希望說未來在這段期間裡面我們的行政院的談判團隊持續再跟美方來做談判就是我們已經談好的這個ART"},{"start":28268.616,"end":28286.865,"text":"跟MOU是不是能夠持續有效因為我想這對台灣來講各行各業 百工百業都是最好的所以我請教一下院長那副院長可以再補充第一個 我們需要多久時間來跟美方來確認我們所談好的這個ART跟MOU一樣有效其實這個談判團隊跟美方在"},{"start":28294.989,"end":28323.509,"text":"美國最高法院判決之後到現在已經取得了密切的聯繫這種聯繫是持續在進行當中的那副院長也在這種聯繫當中持續一再的要求美方盡快能夠確認到雙方已經談定的這個協議內容要繼續有效但美方調整在國內的法律工具之後他必須出去一個讓我們可以注意證明繼續有效的一個很清楚的說法"},{"start":28323.854,"end":28327.81,"text":"我們才能跟國會提出來那這樣的過程現在還在進行當中"},{"start":28328.615,"end":28353.969,"text":"那會不會因為說這個IEPA無效之後影響到說我們已經談定的這個二三二絕對沒有影響我說這個我們的ART會不會受到影響ART現在有一些影響就是我們有一些不要說關稅15不疊加變成10疊加這個雖然數字降低了可是我們跟我們競爭國家之間的微妙變化是存在的另外有一些部分是他全球豁免本來單對我們豁免"},{"start":28356.15,"end":28371.413,"text":"現在全球豁免我們的優勢也被吃掉了一些部分另外一部分是對我們有豁免的部分他現在取消了變成沒有部分變成10加MFN那這個部分如果調整到原來的ART內容的話我們就回到原來最有競爭力的模式裡面"},{"start":28371.573,"end":28400.576,"text":"那有機會繼續維持住本台談判的成果嗎確認這個事情我跟委員報告第一個232取得優惠不受影響還不受影響那第二我們原來談到的ART的談判成果我們希望鞏固那所以我們跟美方聯繫的過程當中美方也告訴我們其實122是過渡性的這個措施那我們當然知道產業面對122現在時價還沒分未來會不會變動的確有不確定感我們是感同身受"},{"start":28401.096,"end":28421.025,"text":"但是我們的確會在這個過渡措施過程當中跟美方緊密保持聯繫那未來要真正面對的是後續美方替代性的法律工具不論是301或其他的法律工具之下他取代原來的IPA的這個法源基礎但是雙方我們仍然期待維繫ART的一個談判成果"},{"start":28421.465,"end":28443.033,"text":"我想這是雙方的態度那美方政府其實也對公開說明說他們現在會在未來他們既有的貿易法的基礎下實現跟各國的協議內容這是他最新的發言這是我們的優勢因為我們已經談好了我們已經談好ART譬如說2072項的豁免譬如說我們本來15不疊加我們所謂很重要不疊加是取得跟FTA國"},{"start":28444.594,"end":28467.4,"text":"立足點相同的公平競爭也就是相對優勢的一個最佳待遇我們希望未來美方一二二之後過渡新的法律工具下依然給我們具相對優勢的最佳待遇這就是我溝通的目標所以我們正在緊密溝通中那美方目前為止釋放出來的訊息您覺得怎麼樣有沒有朝我們想要的目標來前進"},{"start":28468.28,"end":28487.773,"text":"我想我這邊能夠說我身為台灣的台辦代表我全力以赴我也有信心來鞏固我們的台辦成果那現在就是說是不是要等美方那邊確定之後我們的不管是ART或是MOU再一起送到立法院來做審議"},{"start":28489.171,"end":28515.847,"text":"我想應該我們必須要跟美方進一步確認我們的關稅優惠待遇之後明確化之後我們就會進一步將ART以及MOU還有影響評估就是要等待跟美方在談完之後做完一些調整之後再送來嘛對不對因為他們關稅優惠的法律基礎發生了變化所以他們也正在建立替代性的法律工具所以我們要進一步跟他確定未來的法律框架的安排"},{"start":28516.267,"end":28537.641,"text":"以及我們當然是要確保我們取得的談判成果所以就是說之前已經談妥了因為現在他們的法律依據已經有變化了只是根據法律依據的做變化我是個人推估他們後續的一二過渡之後後續的法律工具應該某種程度應該要反映原來的談判成果至於沒有達成協議的國家他們可能後續面對301調查可能會面臨相對比較大的風險"},{"start":28540.203,"end":28564.636,"text":"就是說我們的變數應該會比較小嘛對 我們是一個有利基礎我們已經談定了嘛所以我們變數應該會比較小但是要送來立法院審議的也是要跟美國新的在談判之後或是說內容在做調整之後聯繫溝通然後美方會建立替代性的法律依據那明確化之後我們就會送大院來審議所以這個不是重新談判不是重新談判"},{"start":28566.677,"end":28581.091,"text":"這不是重新談判就是說我們就內容再去跟他們做確認因為我們取得的是上一階段談判取得是我們認為相對優勢的最佳待遇所以我們並不是所謂重新談判而是要在聯繫溝通中去確保我們取得的談判成果"},{"start":28582.139,"end":28595.862,"text":"如果萬一這個在野黨他對於我們談完之後重新談完之後的這個不論是ART或是MOU他們有意見的話那會對台灣造成什麼樣的影響"},{"start":28597.795,"end":28598.175,"text":"因為我們當初"},{"start":28621.363,"end":28631.809,"text":"ART跟MOU其實是綁在一起談的對 並談 對等232並談對啊 所以你今天不可能說我們只要MOU 232對我們半導體高科技產業好然後對於ART我們就覺得說這個談得有問題我們就不要"},{"start":28638.573,"end":28653.885,"text":"就不可能這樣子嘛所以我們當時台美就是對等跟232並談嘛對我們之前是一起談的嘛高科技傳統產業跟農業在國際競爭力的一個相對優勢我想我們努力達到這個目標我們當然現在也是要鞏固這個我們各類產業都能夠"},{"start":28656.246,"end":28670.706,"text":"確定取得相對優勢的一個最佳待遇那232是最惠待遇那對成農產業跟農業我們取得的是逆差國中的一個最佳待遇尤其我們的原來取得的不疊加是讓我們擬平了過去有"},{"start":28671.407,"end":28695.955,"text":"跟美國FTA國家我們差距人家的一個MFN就像以前我們的從商產業在競爭的時候好像是腳上綁一個沙袋就是比人家高了一個MFN但是在原來的談判成果是不疊加以後這個的差異就消失了就有立足公平的一個競爭所以我們未來在不管他新的法律如何安排我們都希望能夠繼續鞏固我們原來所取得的一個相對優勢的一個最佳待遇"},{"start":28696.195,"end":28711.891,"text":"所以我現在很擔心就是說在野黨有些人說要重新談判重新談判搞不好連已經談好的232我們有關這個高科技半導體的MOU都一起都會有影響一起受到這個連帶的一個影響我是希望說"},{"start":28713.035,"end":28731.796,"text":"如果這段期間能夠繼續在維持說我們這個跟美國談定的這個Art這個範圍裡面那當然是最好其實當初談出來的時候在野黨其實他們大部分也都認為說這已經談得很好了也都給我們這個行政院談判團隊都給肯定今天不要為了說這個"},{"start":28733.82,"end":28748.876,"text":"對這個ARTA認為說這個美國IEP有問題了那結果連帶的影響到我們已經談定了232有關於這個MOU的一些簽訂今天包括委員在內一早上到現在十多位各黨派的委員在這裡提出的"},{"start":28749.707,"end":28771.2,"text":"我想會讓我們深具信心因為大家對232我們獲得了最優惠的待遇原來就已經知道這是很好的一個成果現在對ART所兼取到的15%不疊加這樣的一個過程今天早上到現在大家都持肯定的態度這個我會認為對未來我們將ART以及MOU並送國會的時候應該"},{"start":28773.499,"end":28798.788,"text":"前途一片光明在這但是我們現在努力的是趕快確保這個內容談判的內容美方跟我們繼續遵守確認他給我們一個很明確的說法我想有國會的支持你們在跟美方談的時候我想也會增加一些籌碼啦是委員講得對所以我們非常感謝這個委員對我們談判成果的一個肯認好那我們這副院長先請回接下來我請我們這個卓院長"},{"start":28800.771,"end":28809.546,"text":"今天的這個程序委員會終於把這個行政院版的軍購特別條例至少在程序委員會有過關了那有機會在這個禮拜五就是複為審查"},{"start":28810.951,"end":28840.412,"text":"但是現在國民黨他們的版本有很多種有3500億最低的那有可能要高到8000億左右那不管怎麼樣我認為國家安全是不能打折扣的那現在有兩個問題請教這個院長如果最後送來的這個國民黨的版本是鄭麗文的這個版本只有3500億那對於國家的安全會造成怎樣的傷害如果是有這樣的版本出現我一看到我會非常的遺憾因為在1.25兆的特別預算跟條例當中"},{"start":28840.865,"end":28867.752,"text":"我們清楚的告訴國人我們有三大目標一個就是台灣之盾那個整個台灣安全的很關鍵的力量設施另外一個就是用AI高科技導入一個擊殺鏈的一個整個新的新式武器第三個很重要的是國防相關聯的國防軍工產業那無論切到哪一塊都不是一個整套的國家安全體系所需要的有人說"},{"start":28869.653,"end":28895.089,"text":"國防安全體系這一塊要變做以後的年度預算但是我們認為國防安全體系可以讓我們的國內的產業急速的升級而且是有計劃的在8年內快速的朝向一個世界先進的國防產業裡面的升級如果變到年度預算當中又要產生其他的排擠作用所以還是要懇請大院依照行政院院版1.25兆的國防預算"},{"start":28896.997,"end":28916.635,"text":"預算的這個特別條例跟特別預算內容能夠審查單裡面適當跟不適當予以合理的審查做若干合理的調整我們都能夠合理的來討論但是如果一切把它切到只剩下三分之一那對我們整體的架構會產生非常大的影響我們看現在的這個戰爭的發展"},{"start":28918.001,"end":28932.532,"text":"又要保護自己又要有適度的環境的能力同時當自主的國防沒有辦法實現的時候依靠外來的整個力量到時候會產生很大的斷層跟落差所以我希望這三點能夠同時達到"},{"start":28934.034,"end":28959.83,"text":"因為從剛剛的這個關稅跟我現在問的這個軍購其實它有相同的背景就是說不論是軍購或是說這個關稅我們跟美方都已經有談定了那現在就是說如果我們跟美方已經有談定了那但是呢在野黨它有不同的意見然後要推翻這個我們跟美方不論是軍購或是說關稅都談得非常久然後就是說到了立法院之後呢在野黨不同意見把它推翻了"},{"start":28960.854,"end":28986.562,"text":"那我相信對於台灣跟美國的關係也會受到影響當然所以我說國防不能夠打折扣的你打三折打三分之一那就不成原形所以我是認為1.25兆的國防預算合理的審查就內容我是要求國防部提出清楚的說明來據理力爭講到讓委員能夠來支持也讓美國可以及時的提供給我們這些先進的"},{"start":28988.287,"end":29003.619,"text":"AI設計的這個武器讓我們能夠除了自保我們更有能力發展自己的國防軍工產業好那剩下最後一點時間我問一下因為現在就是說美國打伊朗那如果按照這個美國總統川普的說法可能會延續到四週"},{"start":29004.397,"end":29033.342,"text":"那大家就很關心說我們的這個能源問題因為我們現在如果按照這個台灣基金研究院的估算石油庫存大概可以支撐120天那天然氣比較少天然氣大概僅大概11天左右那如果是在這種情況之下因為我們有60%的石油跟超過1%33%左右的天然氣需要經過現在有可能會被伊朗封鎖的這個荷姆斯的海峽那我想請問一下行政院有沒有短期跟長期的這個"},{"start":29034.662,"end":29063.642,"text":"規劃跟替代方案那還有3月底會召開這個電價會議會不會受到影響電價會不會受到影響我們就最近一個月當中的所有的LNG的提供運送我們做了比較周圍的一個規劃3月份不會受到影響我們現在以這個目標往後當然要持續馬上進行加序了要確保4月以後的這個對電價會不會有影響那電價當然要交由電價審議委員會因為4月的時候到現在整個變化還在"},{"start":29071.415,"end":29086.517,"text":"好謝謝李崑禎委員質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長備詢 謝謝接下來徐毅臻委員質詢完畢之後王定宇委員改書面質詢我們要請王弘威委員請準備現在請徐毅臻委員請質詢謝謝院長我們請"},{"start":29096.187,"end":29099.268,"text":"卓榮泰卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備選許委員好卓院長好卓院長這段時間以來因為行政院一直以這個我們這次談判的一個重大突破"},{"start":29118.106,"end":29136.881,"text":"跟強調它的成果跟紅利那但是呢當然針對這個部分的話政策的評價我想不是只有我們自己的大內宣應該還要回歸到我們這個雙方的這個條文本身是不是權利義務能夠對等還有風險是不是可以控管"},{"start":29137.622,"end":29160.875,"text":"因為其實我們看到這49頁的文本Art這49頁的文本我們可以看到其中有很多呈現的不是單純的關稅互惠而是多項足以影響我國主權的政策彈性的安排那許多條款在過去的經貿條款談判中也確實鮮少見到首先的話我們先來談談這個國防的部分"},{"start":29163.749,"end":29188.488,"text":"因為第五點四條我們可以看到第三項會將國防的年度預算應高於GDP的3%納入我們協議的文本那國防的預算本來就應該依照我們的安全情勢財政狀況跟我們國會審議的一個決定但是現在是透過貿易協定的方式予以拘束也限縮了我們未來政府的一個財政的一個編列的彈性"},{"start":29189.127,"end":29197.314,"text":"跟我們立法監督的一個空間那我們來看一下3%的GDP大概如果看起來大概至少要新台幣8500億元"},{"start":29199.352,"end":29222.512,"text":"那我們可以看一下我們115年度的這個軍事預算的組成因為我們用的是歐盟的這個計算方式所以我們可以看到包括國防部以及三項特別預算退伏會海巡署跟非營業特種基金大概是9495億那未來美國如果不同意用歐盟的計算方式的話我們可能要扣掉退伏會的1064億"},{"start":29224.278,"end":29249.316,"text":"那還有包括新式戰機跟海空戰力提升這兩項因為今年就會執行完畢在扣掉這兩項之後大概有7只剩7700億左右那也就是說我們的公務預算未來還要再增加800億元才能夠達到8500億的規模所以想要編列到3%的GDP也勢必會影響到不管是教育啊社福啊或者是這個農業經濟以及基礎建設的這個資源所以要"},{"start":29254.298,"end":29276.151,"text":"那也讓我們這些年度預算是會受到外部的一個左右那也會削弱我們立法院審議跟這個財政自主的本身喔那所以國防支出喔應該是要依照我們的戰略需求跟財政能力來做一個彈性的調整但是像這樣子在商務協議中被寫死喔那放在商務的這個協議裡合理嗎"},{"start":29279.02,"end":29304.421,"text":"我剛剛看到文字的內容也應該清楚的看到它是TECO跟AIT宣誓一致這個宣誓一致表示我們是已經達到了我們已經達到了所以我們宣誓說我們已經達到了3%因為94 95這個數字已經達到了3.32我們已經達到了但未來會達到嗎未來我想隨著國家財政的能力跟國防的需求"},{"start":29305.504,"end":29321.421,"text":"對 百分之三再往上增加看看我們的需求有多少我們的能力的支銷多少那因為你現在在協議文本裡面是寫寫清楚就是要 至少要3%嘛 對不對對 那未來如果沒有辦法達到是不是就 先說我們自己的一個財政的一個邊緣"},{"start":29322.302,"end":29351.403,"text":"國防支出的財政編列的一個能力那我們接下來再看一下我是不是跟委員做一點點補充因為這個條文其他載明是一個我們談判前已經發生的事實也就是我國賴清德總統在去年的3月就已經宣示了這樣的一個國防預算的目標那談判是4月以後才開始的所以這個條文是一個載明我國已經總統宣示的一個目標跟事實所以未來也是會這樣子嗎沒有這只是一個說跟我們所宣布的目標"},{"start":29352.543,"end":29362.248,"text":"這樣的一個事實宰民在條文裡面那如果說剛剛我提到這樣一個狀況勢必可能也會有些排擠到其他預算的一個狀況的時候那我們要怎麼樣來去因應排擠"},{"start":29365.551,"end":29385.315,"text":"我們目前的確我們的國防預算就已經是朝這個目標在變略我們已經也向特別條例送到大院我們也希望懇請大院能夠支持我們國防就是我剛剛提到這個部分我是覺得那至於為什麼要在這個經貿所以這個是基於國家的國防安全的目標那為什麼要在經貿的協議當中就加上這個加上我們的這個國防的預算"},{"start":29391.277,"end":29399.229,"text":"這個是一個宰民事實我想這個只是表達因為好像目前的話世界各國沒有這樣子美方政府了解到我國自己已經有這樣的一個目標"},{"start":29400.305,"end":29428.684,"text":"另外我再請教一下就是在這個第五點一條裡面當美國以經濟安全為由制裁某國時台灣收到通知後必須要跟緊所以我們可以看到就是這樣的做法等於將我國是否對第三方採取貿易制裁的這個決策跟美方行動是綁定而且根據這個條款的話現在美國一直講說要制裁歐盟那如果他制裁歐盟的話我們也要跟進嗎"},{"start":29429.963,"end":29445.369,"text":"好這個我想在條文裡有這樣子的一個狀況那另外呢我再請院長看一下下面這張表就是針對台灣這個第五點我們這個協議裡面的5.2條第三項台灣的出口管制要跟"},{"start":29445.856,"end":29468.785,"text":"美國的這個FDPR保持一致那未來美國的商務部如果他隨時修改這些規則那我們台灣也必須要自動跟進那未來如果損失到台積電或是其他半導體大廠的重大利益時我們就沒有說部的權利只能當美國法律的這個執行窗口對台灣的廠商也非常的不公平那另外呢我們也可以看到"},{"start":29469.249,"end":29494.71,"text":"在這個3.2條的第三項就是有關醫藥主權就是未來只要經過美國FDA許可的我們就可以作為藥品在台上市那事實上我們都知道東方人跟西方人不管在基因在代謝上有所差異這個是醫學常識那現在美國FDA如果通過核准的就可以在台灣上市而不需要經過這個人體的試驗或任何臨床試驗的話"},{"start":29497.913,"end":29524.747,"text":"未來如果發生這樣子的一個這個爭議的話FDA會負責嗎尤其是過去在美國我們也曾經出過在美國通過卻在亞洲引發致命心律不整的這樣的一個案例那未來這樣的一個狀況的話誰要負責跟委員報告其實在這次談判中美國是對各國在談判那美國對許多國家都有提供ART這樣的一個這個各個條文的framework一起談"},{"start":29525.327,"end":29554.397,"text":"但是所以其實很多條件你可以比較各國所談出來的也就是說各國都會放棄這樣的健康主權嗎那有關這一條在FDA的部分其實是FDA所許可作為我方審查的一個充分證據所以我方仍然保有相關的一個所以未來還是可以有人體試驗還是可以有臨床試驗是嗎這個我們請部長可以來進一步說明跟委員說明這個美方跟我們的產品之間其實它是有區隔性所以我們它進來的大概都是比較高階的"},{"start":29555.404,"end":29579.061,"text":"那麼在為了讓這個加速審查其實我們早就有一些加速審查的機制對於過去在一些我們認可的國家像FDA美國FDA或者是日本歐盟我現在就是要代表大家就是事宜的部分就是說未來是不是就是美國FDA這上市的就是最後到我們國家來我們還是可以我們還是可以經過人體實驗跟臨床實驗是嗎"},{"start":29581.703,"end":29609.005,"text":"我們會去檢視是不是有人種差異性我覺得這個部分對我們國人的健康安全非常的重要尤其是東西方人種的差異我們也希望說在這邊不要造成大家的誤解而是讓大家能夠知道針對這樣子的健康主權我們是有所堅持的絕對不會拿國人的健康開玩笑有兩重一個是它要符合美國FDA第二個是它作為我們充分的證據但是我方還是有一個審驗的程序持續進行委員官卻那幾項衛福部都會持續把關"},{"start":29609.645,"end":29632.746,"text":"然後另外我們再看看第4.1條跟第4.4條就是全世界都在討論如何對Google Meta這些數位科技巨頭課稅然後我們在協議裡就是承諾不課徵數位服務稅甚至不能要求查閱原始碼那院長請問一下這樣的做法是不是犧牲我們的數位的主權那這樣子對於我們原來的稅收會犧牲多少呢"},{"start":29634.071,"end":29649.678,"text":"目前我國本來就沒有存在數位貿易稅世界各國都在討論嗎那你這是未來的趨勢我國本來現在就沒有對跨境平台徵收數位貿易稅那如果他涉及的話我們一般的像加值型營業稅或者是所得稅這些都還是有的"},{"start":29650.638,"end":29669.189,"text":"那現在是全世界都在討論嘛希望還是要一個這個那為什麼我們要在條文裡就把它就是要求說不可以客徵數位膨脹所以我們陳述的是一個目前我們沒有這樣的一個對 那未來也不會有因為我們已經簽訂這樣子的一個條文那這一次在數位貿易裡面我想雙方很重要也達成這個"},{"start":29670.67,"end":29691.567,"text":"我們的這個邊境的自由傳輸那麼以及對於自由傳輸不課稅那最重要在資安安全上面的這個合作那我想台灣跟美國我們是自由民主的國家在數位貿易跟數位安全上面的合作其實是有它的一個重要性但是因為在這樣的條文裡我們就是未來是不可以對他們課證這個數位服務稅"},{"start":29693.228,"end":29716.418,"text":"那未來如果當世界的趨勢做一個轉變我們必須做這樣的一個改變的時候那因為簽訂了這個ART之後我們就沒有辦法來跟他們課徵這樣子的一個稅收這樣是不是合理那因為全世界其實都在討論這樣的一個事情那另外呢我們也可以看到就這個部分的話除了這個部分我們大家國人非常關心的就是食安的問題"},{"start":29717.979,"end":29732.901,"text":"因為院長也常常講到說食安是政府的底線所以從這份協議看起來其實政府顯然對於食安的這個問題做了一些的退縮我們首先先看到"},{"start":29736.623,"end":29751.31,"text":"我們可以看到就是現在我們針對這樣的我們針對就有關不管是美豬美牛我們都做了一些退讓包括殘留標準的我們不可以制定更"},{"start":29752.134,"end":29767.204,"text":"嚴格的一個規範所以我們現在是要跟Codex一致那另外呢還有就內臟部位的安排那我們可以看到就是說因為國人的這個飲食習慣跟西方人不同那這個殘留這個這對萊克多巴胺的殘留的這個"},{"start":29768.832,"end":29792.214,"text":"容許量我們把它放寬之後還有這個內臟的這個部位進口變多之後還有這個萊劑的部分我們都其實國人都非常擔心尤其是這個做業者的婦女或者是一些老人家或是學童那針對這樣的部分的話為什麼過去我們一直說這樣子是不行的它包括這個水解步驟恐怕我們現在也禁止採用水解步驟"},{"start":29792.759,"end":29803.829,"text":"因為會這個降低來季的檢出率那針對美豬的部分我們不能百分之百的這個要終止百分之百的"},{"start":29804.897,"end":29822.424,"text":"P的檢測那對美牛也要這個終止竹香的查驗等等這個都讓我們覺得針對食安的部分事實上尤其是美豬美牛來豬來牛對我們國人健康都會造成很大的一個影響那請問一下針對這個部分我們有什麼樣子的的說法"},{"start":29825.414,"end":29840.169,"text":"跟委員說明在食安的部分我們是嚴格把關這個原則是不變的但是我們跟國際接軌所以我們現在重新再去檢視我們對於特別是萊克多巴胺的殘留量跟CODES也就是所謂國際標準的"},{"start":29841.929,"end":29857.596,"text":"食品這個法典委員會所公布的標準我們重新評估同時也在去年我們已經完成了國人根據國人的飲食習慣所做的健康風險評估之後讓我們認為可接受那所以我們現在呢重新調整的"},{"start":29858.196,"end":29876.793,"text":"標準除了跟Codex是一致之外也跟日本 韓國 新加坡是一致的那現在我們放棄了就百分之百的這個主批查驗跟儲箱查驗這個部分是不是會造成更多的輸入的管理我們從源頭包含茶廠包含系統性查驗這個都還是照做的"},{"start":29877.173,"end":29901.323,"text":"那另外在這個條文他規範的是什麼補充補長就是說我們的這個在四大不變就是民間品項維持不變原產地標示不變校園優先採購國產不變以及食安管理機制不變就是源頭邊境後市場管理機制不變那原來因為他是不能進來的品項所以採用竹箱竹坯"},{"start":29902.563,"end":29915.923,"text":"那現在我們要回歸一般的我們的邊境的查驗所以我們還是有邊境查驗的程序所以我想這個部分就是剛剛部長講的這個部分我想部長在這個源頭邊境因為源頭就去茶廠 系統性茶盒"},{"start":29916.637,"end":29945.237,"text":"那為什麼要放棄像以前這樣百分之百的這個豬皮茶園為什麼因為就是回歸我們的既有的常態性的管理只是說我們常態性的管理的法規他沒有說一定要完全載明在我們的協議裡面但是在法規裡面都有其實也要代表我想所有全國的父母都非常擔心未來這樣子不管來自於蘭牛會不會進入到這個營養午餐會不會進入到校園還有基改食品是會進入校園基改不會進入校園"},{"start":29946.338,"end":29974.422,"text":"這個部分是大家現在非常擔心的疑慮因為很多的萊豬萊牛他因為你的這個放寬這個檢驗標準之後他可能就會利用其他的形式進來這是我們現在我想家長都非常擔心的現在校園有共同供應契約優先採購國產我們現在改變的這個標準跟國際接軌主要是在內臟肝腎的部分那肝腎在國內的使用量進口的佔量是非常非常低都在1%左右而已"},{"start":29974.83,"end":29997.724,"text":"最後我想我要提出三點嚴正的要求第一個就是要禁訴訟立法院實質的審議因為過去政府院長在擔任委員的時候也有特別說要拒絕行政獨裁另外還有拒絕黑箱作業我們也是要落實政府院長當年主張要公開透明"},{"start":29998.305,"end":30013.195,"text":"第三個我們也希望能夠儘速的提出產業的衝擊評估報告不可以拿這個台灣的主權跟國人健康為犧牲所以在這邊也要特別的要求希望我們能夠落實這三樣的要求好 謝謝徐議政委員質詢謝謝卓院長 曾副院長 香港部會首長貝勳 謝謝"},{"start":30029.025,"end":30043.944,"text":"我们接下来登记第17号的王定宇委员改书面提出请行政院书面答复并列入记录刊登公报再接下来登记第18号王洪威委员请咨询邱志伟委员请准备"},{"start":30053.357,"end":30061.284,"text":"好 謝謝主席我請我們卓榮泰院長跟我們鄭麗君副院長麻煩再請卓院長 鄭副院長備選好 院長 副院長好黃榮豪今天是元宵節所以也祝福我們現場"},{"start":30082.677,"end":30104.805,"text":"包含我們的行政院院長、副院長還有我們各位首長還有我們立法院院長、秘書長還有我們所有同仁跟院裡面的同仁大家元宵節快樂謝謝委員今天也是很臨時可能王定宇委員深陷他的情色風暴裡面所以我被通知臨時要提前來質詢這也很好"},{"start":30108.306,"end":30134.157,"text":"所以但是我想在這邊我要做一個澄清因為我剛在下面聽的時候那麼卓院長一直在強調說我們今天質詢的很多位跨黨派的委員都很肯定我們這一次台美貿易談判包含我們ART的一個這樣子的一個談判的結果我覺得這個是有一些誤解跟扭曲"},{"start":30135.197,"end":30147.584,"text":"因為事實上我們在這一次的談判事實上包含除了ART之外還有一個非常重要的是MOU嘛我們台美之間已經簽訂MOU而且更早簽訂而MOU"},{"start":30150.665,"end":30175.69,"text":"這個部分因為牽涉到高達5000億美元的投資所以我必須要說我們並不是對這次整個的談判的結果大家完全可以全盤接受的我覺得在這邊一定要做一些澄清啊尤其在這個MOU這個投資的部分5000億美元2500億的美元的直接投資"},{"start":30177.09,"end":30202.018,"text":"還有是一個保證政府保證的部分對我們這麼龐大的投資金額並不是只有在野黨質疑事實上我們前行政院副院長施俊錡大家也知道他過去在蔡英文政府擔任非常重要的一個財經官員他就質疑這樣的一個談判的結果"},{"start":30204.159,"end":30218.388,"text":"不但是把這個台灣的金雞母拿走連未來可能衍生的金雞蛋都拿走所以我必須要去提醒我們行政院針對這些應該還是要做全面性的來檢討跟補救"},{"start":30224.031,"end":30241.087,"text":"那另外我想請教一下行政院我剛才講這次非常重要的除了ART之外ART的文本已經在行政院的官方網站公布了嘛對不對公布了MOU重不重要"},{"start":30242.642,"end":30255.107,"text":"因為這兩個一定是並行的而且未來如果送進立法院MOU會不會送進來一定送那我想請教為什麼MOU的文本沒有公佈是美國不讓我們公佈的嗎還是我們自己覺得可以不用公佈"},{"start":30263.567,"end":30281.898,"text":"MOU的文本為何沒有公佈現在所有的人都可以在網站上每一條都非常清楚這個是公開透明是到現在才公開透明MOU已經早在1月份就簽署了為什麼到現在還沒有公佈可以回答嗎"},{"start":30285.705,"end":30299.92,"text":"報告委員在1月15號跟商務部簽署MOU的時候其實商務部已經用Facesheet事實文件幾乎將所有的內容都公布了我方也用正式新聞稿新聞稿公布我們過去用新聞稿公布嗎當時我們也跟美方"},{"start":30305.986,"end":30332.788,"text":"說明 也跟社會說明未來會跟ART並送國會對 既然並送國會ART的文本已經逐條公佈但是MOU卻沒有逐條公佈老師說剛才院長沒有辦法回答我們副院長講得結結巴巴我希望現在不要再有黑箱作業絕對沒有黑箱MOU請可不可以 那你現在可不可以承諾"},{"start":30333.849,"end":30337.651,"text":"明天就把MOU的每一條筆照ART每一條逐條公佈可不可以我們一定是MOU跟ART會並送國會我現在說問你公佈公佈嘛你到現在還不公佈"},{"start":30351.638,"end":30364.933,"text":"內部的行政程序當時我們也說明會跟ART並送國會所以我想這一點的承諾包含ART 包含MOU 包含影響評估我們都會並送國會為什麼不公佈到目前為止你還在繞副院長我不懂為什麼是因為怕醜嗎"},{"start":30371.019,"end":30387.955,"text":"他公布出來會遭到一些質疑嗎好那我再想請問一下來請問副院長我們在台灣的部分要送國會嘛對不對那在美國的部分如果要最後生效的話要不要送美國國會"},{"start":30389.62,"end":30404,"text":"他們以行政命令當時AEPA的行政命令他們是不需要送國會不需要送國會嗎過去通通都要只要牽涉到關稅相關的台灣都要送國會他們會通知當時以AEPA的法源好我再請問"},{"start":30404.6,"end":30426.695,"text":"請問一下他們會通知國會通知國會但是跟我國不一樣所以我們在第一次的談判就跟美方說我國的國會程序是法律保護條款我再請教一下因為所謂的生效跟美國是不一樣的所謂的生效要有它的程序請問一下USTR現在有上傳聯邦公告嗎"},{"start":30428.613,"end":30444.007,"text":"因為就是我們在美國高院判決後因為美國最高法院判決違法所以呢現在UST1現在應該不敢去上傳聯邦公告好我現在問一個很重要的問題"},{"start":30445.448,"end":30470.314,"text":"來來因為我時間有限來我要問一個很重要的問題我們擔心因為美國最高法院的一個判決而使得它整個的程序被拖延事實上從副院長上個星期開完記者會到今天你的專案報告事實上我們去比對了之後沒有什麼差別這一個禮拜幾乎沒有差別"},{"start":30470.894,"end":30499.245,"text":"按照院長今天早上回答其實我翻成白話文就是呢我們等消息好我們等美國的消息好所以如果這樣子一個遙遙無期因為最主要是那個根據IEPA的部分已經被判決違法那麼未來有沒有可能如果按照副院長院長說啊這個MOU簽的多好多好我們不能跟動可是"},{"start":30500.405,"end":30506.317,"text":"案長因為他現在有法律效力的問題他未來有沒有可能需要重簽"},{"start":30509.192,"end":30537.695,"text":"這個我們現在要等美方你可能要請副院長講一下我們已經表達就是我們並不是重新談判而是在要後續我說重簽你應該聽懂我的意思IEPA的法律基礎變動之後等美方它後續的法律框架安排之後我想這些訊息所以有沒有可能重簽我們雙方都希望鞏固既有的談判結果所以不排除以後續的程序我們必須要有美方更明確的資訊所以不排除重簽"},{"start":30538.376,"end":30539.777,"text":"重啟談判跟重簽不一樣嘛"},{"start":30556.929,"end":30576.604,"text":"我們是希望確認雙方已經談判的內容確保我們這個成果也確認美方對這個談判的內容給我們具體的說明你沒有聽懂我的意思我講得非常清楚我們其實要讓我們現在的ART或MOU要變成有效而且可以送進立法院"},{"start":30577.364,"end":30601.263,"text":"老實說啦 以我現在來看 只有重簽一途我不是說重新談判 重新談判跟重簽不一樣副院長應該聽懂了 院長你們回去討論一下 其實如果今天然後說我現在覺得我們在國會上應該可能遙遙無期 不知道什麼時候送來好 那我要請教的就是"},{"start":30602.379,"end":30622.442,"text":"剛才賴思寶委員也問到就是因為你看到現在不管是這個要確定他的法律效力或者他未來的程序即便122條他的有效的期限150天好150天5個月那我想請問一下副院長"},{"start":30624.143,"end":30643.231,"text":"因為現在政界、政壇一直在盛傳你是台北市長的熱門候選人的熱門人選但是現在看起來整個的談判整個的未來整個的我們的ART跟MOU"},{"start":30644.071,"end":30660.946,"text":"他的時間或者是未來我們的關稅我剛講一二條他長達五個月如果再啟動232條款的調查301條款的調查起碼半年以上好我要請問一下副院長在這些都沒有抵定之前"},{"start":30662.128,"end":30681.251,"text":"你會不會離開行政院副院長這是很重要工作嘛你會不會去選舉報告委員我想我現在一心就是希望說在美方後續的法律變動中要為我國國家利益跟產業利益爭取確保最大利益這是我現在唯一心中關切的事情"},{"start":30681.832,"end":30703.351,"text":"所以我現在生活的關鍵字就是關稅兩個字沒有其他的就是關稅兩個字我想這裡是委員每個委員提醒我們應該要努力的目標這是我現在職責身為國家談判代表我最優先要做的事情就是在後續的變動中為我國國家及產業爭取最大利益所以整個"},{"start":30706.914,"end":30721.282,"text":"但是我聽起來委員是好像很怕後面的選舉的感覺沒有沒有沒有不是沒有不是因為我們今天就在談我們台美關稅啊因為它現在充滿很多的變數嘛承認吧我沒有講錯吧承認很多的變數跟未知數理解吧所以我才問對我知道所以"},{"start":30733.808,"end":30755.275,"text":"對我剛才的理解是我剛才的理解是副院長的意思說會把整個我們台北對等關稅的談判包含貿易銜底包含MOU全部抵定之後你才會有其他的打算是這個意思嗎我心中沒有這個問題啊為什麼我要回答這個問題我現在心中的目標就是要鞏固"},{"start":30755.575,"end":30772.028,"text":"副院長是率領我們的談判團隊談判團隊的代表之一那國家會用政府的力量把所有談判的事情做到最好保障國家跟產業最大的利益選舉的事情那是另外一回事委員應該是關心的還是關稅吧我當然關心關稅啊我剛才不是在講嗎應該討論關稅而不是討論選舉"},{"start":30778.052,"end":30798.531,"text":"對啊 可是很重要啊因為你今天如果不是主談判人我就不會問你這個問題我有沒有問左院長這個問題我沒有問左院長這個問題啊他也是那個人選之一好 我們回到這個有關於我們這個台北對等關稅上面我今天特別想說我們台灣半島堤不是偷來的"},{"start":30799.292,"end":30819.204,"text":"我覺得這一點非常非常重要真的太重要了今天我看到聯合報有一個投書也許大家沒有看到叫做王博元如果台灣科技界跟半導體界都知道他是響噹噹的人物他還是我們工研院的院士"},{"start":30820.58,"end":30843.711,"text":"就是幾十年來半導體產業很多人從李國鼎先生開始引進人才以及關鍵產業我們是一點一滴的把我們台灣半導體產業直視界的牛耳但是現在美國總統川普總統他一而再再而三的說我們是金面小偷"},{"start":30844.631,"end":30864.924,"text":"所以我們偷走了美國的晶片所以我們台灣的半導體是偷來的我覺得是可忍是不可忍今天王伯源的意思就是他覺得這個事情是絕對不能讓它成為全世界大家誤以為台灣半導體業是偷來的"},{"start":30867.245,"end":30878.796,"text":"我知道剛才我有看到賴思寶委員請兩位聲明就是我們不是晶片小偷我知道你們也有做這個聲明所以院長"},{"start":30880.632,"end":30897.54,"text":"即便是貴為川普總統但是他一而再再而三的講出假訊息污衊台灣半導體業我們該抗議的時候是不是該抗議我們該證明的時候是不是該證明具體的事實是現在全世界各國都會向台灣"},{"start":30899.324,"end":30917.687,"text":"採購他們所需要的半導體晶片如果我們這個途徑是不合法的我想我們沒有世界上這樣的地位也不可能有這樣的競爭力我們是從過去您所說的那幾位重要的人士一點一滴到現在產業的自主研發才有現在的先進製程這麼好的良率"},{"start":30918.948,"end":30944.842,"text":"所以您這個話我們都數次跟美方表達台灣的半導體是數十年來台灣能努力至今的成果所以我才會說這次談判我的感受就是世界看好台灣 需要台灣沒有錯 所以絕對川普總統的假訊息我們真的要蓋成心 一定要澄清另外 因為我剩下一點點時間"},{"start":30946.708,"end":30971.893,"text":"這個有關於因為之前一直在講包含賴總統都說希望國會趕快審就是我們立法院趕快審但是我們審什麼呢因為到現在沒有進來根本連送都沒有送進來另外全世界我也去查了其實世界各國除了像日本它的審查是比較快的但是包含歐盟歐盟還在審歐盟現在是"},{"start":30973.154,"end":30977.324,"text":"現在是暫停審查因為他也是說我也不曉得現在到底是怎麼樣韓國也還在審好"},{"start":30986.025,"end":31006.993,"text":"所以更多省的不一樣,所以我們的目標是很清楚的我們打開充足一下,因為我非常想知道有一個奇怪的,就是我們在開公聚會,一定要開公聚會好不好一定要開公聚會,ECPA開一千場公聚會"},{"start":31011.079,"end":31017.988,"text":"好 謝謝王宏威委員的質詢謝謝卓院長 鄭副院長 貝勳 謝謝我們接下來邱志偉委員質詢結束之後我們將會休息十分鐘我們請邱志偉委員請質詢"},{"start":31037.352,"end":31042.615,"text":"好 謝謝主席是不是請行政院卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢這個會兩種截然不同的資訊風格我風格大概是比較理性比較溫暖好 這個先從您的報告結語Page 19"},{"start":31066.712,"end":31080.279,"text":"從19頁您的結語來看 第一個問題請教卓院長您的結語提到過去一年即使面對國際局勢變化全體國人百工百業共同努力經濟成長率8.63%出口達到6407.5億美金"},{"start":31086.846,"end":31110.811,"text":"在一個相對險峻的一個產業經營環境一個國際貿易環境我們依然能夠達到經濟成長到8 接近9在世界是名列前茅最起碼亞洲第一吧超越日韓也是15年來我們的最高是啊所以出口是以創歷年來的新高面對過去一年險峻的這個經營環境跟國際這個貿易形勢的這個變動情況之下"},{"start":31115.942,"end":31137.746,"text":"新的一年我認為是相對和緩雖然依然嚴峻變數依然存在相對和緩度好 對於新的一年剛過年結束這個卓院長我對您的談判團隊是以他們為榮他們過去一年從去年4月2號開始到今年2月13號簽訂這個ART"},{"start":31146.432,"end":31171.028,"text":"這個將近一年的過程是不眠不休真的是用盡全力我跟委員報告今天早上副院長還跟我說他到現在還很難晚上入眠他還在過美國時間所以我覺得非常非常以他們為榮也非常非常敬佩所以對國家利益對國家的未來他們只能放在前面"},{"start":31172.344,"end":31180.05,"text":"為了國家未來的競爭力為了國民生活的福祉為了經濟發展他們不眠不休全力以赴個人選舉算什麼呢國會議員不能把歌曲做小啊國會議員也要跟行政團隊一樣是關注國家的未來競爭力國民生活福祉跟產業的競爭力對不對所以對期許未來新的一年這個總理長你跟你優秀團隊我對你們覺得百分之百的信心"},{"start":31201.772,"end":31211.366,"text":"你認為新的一年我們表現會不會超越去年經濟成長率又增高我們出口也會再創新高新的一年我們在一月份的出口繼續創新高"},{"start":31213.376,"end":31231.146,"text":"而且我們的股市發展到這一兩天之前我們是一直一直的創新高那這一兩天因為國際局勢的發展我們還是撐住我們基本所預先的研判這表示我們的經濟體質已經達到一種相對性穩定的狀況之下那因為我們經濟成長發展的這麼好"},{"start":31233.191,"end":31259.698,"text":"政府應該更有多的能量時間把經濟發展的成果公平分配給所有世界所以預算就應該趕快省讓行政部門有更多的資源或是航班人我們來做公平的分配去做努力去為這個國家為人民做努力預算不省國防預算不通過這個對國家未來是很致命的影響"},{"start":31261.13,"end":31265.277,"text":"對人民的安全也是非常重要的打擊很遺憾的 這問題是在國會"},{"start":31268.484,"end":31292.15,"text":"所以主委長你認為在新的一年從第一個月份開始我們依然這個勢頭一直往上但是也很慶幸我們聽到禮拜五國防的特別條例將行赴委那無論他赴委的版本有多少至少行政院版本赴委下去就代表國會有機會來看到行政院版本的內容我們就有機會來做說明"},{"start":31293.69,"end":31318.79,"text":"說明了之後我認為有相當的把握可以說服國會來支持向國家安全所需接著下去中央政府總預算也應該儘速的復違我們才能做更多社會公平分配的重要事項希望國會能夠切實檢討繼續往善良的方面前進是 謝謝委員我們看第一張圖就是整個過去一年的談判過程"},{"start":31320.78,"end":31343.226,"text":"4月號宣布的時候我們是32%加MFN那種條件是這個對所有產業這個信息面是很大的打擊很嚴苛對不對相對其他我們的相對競爭股但是從過去一年韓漢團隊不眠不休全力輸入情況之下一輪二輪三輪四輪五輪"},{"start":31345.202,"end":31362.157,"text":"到第四輪到去年8月7號我們從32%到20%對不對好最重要是到第五輪到第六輪第六輪就是台美這個投資合作備忘錄MOU對不對1月15號的時候"},{"start":31363.41,"end":31374.404,"text":"好 1月15號這個千里MOUMOU的這個成果在您的報告有提到就說MOU232 二三二優惠不受影響"},{"start":31375.894,"end":31396.753,"text":"這個對於這個法美國這個最高法院的判決無涉232條款沒有錯嘛好那這個MOU的成果包括你們報告裡面提到這個半導體衍生品一定關稅一定額度免關稅額外15%是還有相關的營運所需要原料設備責任"},{"start":31398.103,"end":31421.04,"text":"都獲免額外關稅這些依然有效對不對是這依然有效另外MOU也確定台美雙向的投資機制這個投資機制有兩類大概我想這個主委很清楚一個是2500是企業自主投資另外一個是所謂的信保對不對這個是承諾是不是依然也不變是如果"},{"start":31422.506,"end":31448.598,"text":"能夠確保我們已經得到的談判最優惠的待遇那談判是雙向是互相的投資也是雙向互相的所以我們會履行我們的條件也希望美國履行他的條件所以這個內容就會是生效的這個所謂的這個投資的未來承諾或者這個投資雙向投資的機制會不會受到聯邦最高法院的這個約束232的部分是不受影響那投資機制呢"},{"start":31449.383,"end":31458.475,"text":"投資就是包含在裡面也不受影響我們也會確實去按照雙方要共同遵守如果這個ARK的部分"},{"start":31459.076,"end":31483.288,"text":"有任何的變動那會牽涉到比較複雜的結果所以我們希望一次也依照原來談定的協議互相遵守來生效我還沒談到ART就是到2月12號這個台北ART簽訂15%沒有疊加對不對是所有這個逆差國中最優惠的待遇232條款也是最優惠的待遇這個是非常難能可貴的這個成就"},{"start":31485.549,"end":31508.982,"text":"所以你看這個賭 你看這個談判歷程你會覺得很感動一個化不可能為可能一個化把最不利的條件變成最有利的條件如果換成別的談判團隊 不可能到這種成果所以我們要給他好彩 要鼓勵他們精神讓我們覺得非常感動"},{"start":31509.676,"end":31528.971,"text":"所以早上我也說了我們除了對談判協議的內容得到最優惠的待遇我們感到非常慶幸之外我們也真的向國人展現我們是最專業的談判團隊所以真的以你們為榮然後這個ART的成果就是說15%不疊加另外這個2072項2072項書本產品"},{"start":31533.014,"end":31549.898,"text":"豁免對等關稅那這個有沒有受到影響我想一定受到影響這有部分受到影響那受到影響他反映在哪裡反映在這個2月24號122條款他加徵現在目前是10%加疊加嘛共計150天150天就是5個月從2月20號公佈5個月就是到7月24號對不對"},{"start":31559.703,"end":31566.541,"text":"它是暫行性的關稅7月24號到期之後 它有說會提高到15%"},{"start":31570.04,"end":31590.976,"text":"美國川普總統已經宣布說要到15%但是還沒有進一步的生效可預期在不久的未來可能會到15%這也是階段性的安排這個部分會影響到我們這個豁免的這個項目裡面豁免的項目裡面我們短掃了大概有400-500項總共剩下1649項豁免的這個項目"},{"start":31596.874,"end":31620.361,"text":"大概少了400多家 豁免的部分就是原來是針對我國豁免的項目有些他現在是開放全世界的豁免所以我們相對競爭性就不見另外有一部分是對我們豁免的他現在取消了豁免我們變成10家MFN所以我們的競爭性也受到一些傷害所以我們希望回到原來的ART的這個內容對我們的豁免的部分要維持下去但您覺得"},{"start":31622.281,"end":31649.506,"text":"回到ART的所有談判的內容或是協議的內容你們覺得可能性大不大我覺得可能性是存在的而且依照美國現在發表出來的一些訊息以及全世界國家跟他現在互相之間的一些訊息都希望維持原來既有的談判內容讓他繼續生效如果這個基礎之上那我們就更有機會能夠確保已經獲得了最優惠的待遇"},{"start":31650.333,"end":31651.617,"text":"所以曾立軍副院長要繼續留在韓漢的韓隊裡面"},{"start":31654.537,"end":31682.206,"text":"他會繼續在談判團隊這段時間這個未來也是一個關鍵啊未來能不能確保R的內容能夠繼續去生效繼續維持因為未來還可能面對301這個冒掉232的項目擴大這也是新的挑戰如果這個談判團隊終於換手當然楊振寧談判團隊我也非常覺得對他放心我也覺得非常信任他他的專業能力當然我覺得是非常非常厲害"},{"start":31683.806,"end":31689.058,"text":"到現在這個階段鄭麗君副院長帶領談判團隊這個工作沒有任何的改變"},{"start":31690.549,"end":31717.531,"text":"想到他們努力真的以他為榮我真的覺得非常非常感動我不曉得這個韓院長韓院長韓院長我很感動不曉得您會不會感動對不起時間暫停對不起邱委員因為我真的對於談判代表過去一年來所做的努力跟奉獻個人覺得非常感動也以他們為榮那卓院長希望怎麼樣韓院長你覺得是不是以他們為榮OK 你要擁抱一下卓院長嗎"},{"start":31719.023,"end":31742.549,"text":"所以你也以他們為榮嗎我們都以所有認真的公務員我們都以他們為榮我們要問台曼團隊一個掌聲好連韓院長都對整個台曼團隊以最大的肯定以他們為榮那接著請教對農產品那我想這個沈部長也在麻煩請農業部長備詢這個當然我的選區是石油廢都會區農業很重要"},{"start":31748.837,"end":31753.874,"text":"當然這個ART之後所122條款當然農業部有做相關的評估"},{"start":31757.472,"end":31778.942,"text":"農業部的評估你們這個相關的立場評估好像也沒有什麼相對應的因應方案因為ART跟你122這個條款是這個差距很大有很大的內容差別對整體農業產品消滅會有很大的差異我想請教一下農業部陳部長您覺得"},{"start":31780.783,"end":31803.817,"text":"對於如果適用122未來可能會更嚴苛那對台灣農業產品這個消美這個我們有沒有更多的這個協助農業的做法我想跟委員做兩個面向的說明就是現在122條款本身我們是跟去年相比因為R的現在還沒有生效就是要跟去年相比那去年是20"},{"start":31804.912,"end":31819.246,"text":"有疊加然後現在是10%也有疊加但是在去年的時候除了絕對關稅也要看競爭對手國的相對關稅那以蝴蝶能來講荷蘭在去年的時候是15%我們是20%所以我們是相對略適"},{"start":31821.748,"end":31840.675,"text":"但是在一二二條款裡面同樣都是15%疊加我們跟荷蘭就是在立足點平等所以我們的相對的競爭優勢有比去年還好這第一件事情第二件事情就是在ART裡面我們得到了27項專屬的豁免那蝴蝶蘭就是零"},{"start":31841.474,"end":31852.716,"text":"胡彥然是零這個部分並沒有不見因為針對R裡面的內容我們正在跟美國積極的確認能夠確保我們談判的內容是可以執行的"},{"start":31853.809,"end":31872.664,"text":"所以最希望我們還是要Lost Art的內容即便是現在122條款所產生的這個也比去年的狀況還好我覺得還是會受到影響對農業的協助我想因為關稅本身在去年4月以前我們很多關稅都是零關稅 蘇美都是零關稅現在有關稅對於農民本身的確是一個負擔"},{"start":31879.429,"end":31895.309,"text":"但是相對的這個部分我想在整個全球性的一致性的這樣的關稅之下我們的立足點是平等的時候那相對的我們會持續用我相信農業部已經有做最好的準備對 我們有用相關的基金也會持續的去爭取他的支持好 謝謝陳部長最後一個問題想請教經濟部廣東部長"},{"start":31899.914,"end":31914.298,"text":"我也跟院長做個說明螺絲扣件或者鋼鋁這個部分並沒有在所謂的豁免自列鋼鋁232還是用50%的關稅當然對台灣金屬扣件鋼鐵業是一個很大的負擔"},{"start":31923.959,"end":31952.877,"text":"那二五戰爭之後這個歐洲市場也沒有了亞洲市場被中國侵蝕了所以全球的六大洲市場大概只剩美國所以美國的關稅又那麼高就接受到中國這個非關稅的這個干擾我們的擴建的確面臨到寒冬針對金屬擴建在關稅上我們有沒有什麼未來爭取的方向跟努力的目標那是國務院長那國務部長是"},{"start":31953.63,"end":31976.263,"text":"報告委員 所以這一次就是說除了我上一次9月3號有去高雄之外這一次本來ART簽訂以後因為就像您講的它50沒有改變所以我2月9號又下去一次跟他們一些座談好在是說扣間業者他們能力也非常的競爭條件或者是競爭能力也非常"},{"start":31992.356,"end":31994.177,"text":"國外 國外"},{"start":32008.186,"end":32019.993,"text":"好,谢谢邱志伟委员咨询,谢谢卓院长,香港部委首长贝勋,谢谢。我们谢谢范云委员,谢谢廖先祥委员,谢谢谢龙介委员,谢谢卢宪一委员,我们现在休息十分钟。"},{"start":32676.064,"end":32681.267,"text":"抱怨會我們現在繼續開會接下來我們請楊瓊英委員質詢鍾嘉斌委員請準備謝謝院會主席楊瓊英發言我們行政院左院長所領軍的團隊新聞界的朋友各位同仁首先邀請左院長麻煩請左院長備詢"},{"start":32711.47,"end":32731.963,"text":"最近美國關稅的法源變來變去最高法院也判決是違憲但是川普馬上又雕出了一個122條款他端出來我們行政院宣傳的ART也就是台美對等的貿易協定現在看來好像這個防禦力似乎有千瘡百孔"},{"start":32732.643,"end":32742.429,"text":"在這樣的情況之下面對美國這種翻臉如翻書的關稅政策那麼政府我們現在都一直說持續的溝通"},{"start":32743.208,"end":32768.922,"text":"所以本席今天我們希望能夠好好的來討論也就是針對於我們行政院針對於美國關稅的這個議題到底我們的底氣跟我們的準備所以我提出了三項的一個防線我們一起來討論首先賴總統告訴我們說我們取得了15%不疊加的好條件"},{"start":32769.722,"end":32792.612,"text":"但是川普的一二二條款呢是在2月24號就已經生效那麼同時我要請問這一刻台灣的工具機機械設備出口到美國那麼到底我們是要適用於ART是不疊加還是被強迫吞下要一二二條款的15%疊加請教"},{"start":32794.912,"end":32810.711,"text":"我想委員一定是希望我們用最好的因為這些產業跟委員是最有相關的我們一定要好好的照顧我們的產業所以我們要聽政府讓我們的民眾讓我們的產業他清楚不是不確定感你剛剛說是不是適用ART當然不是因為ART還沒有經過"},{"start":32812.148,"end":32835.124,"text":"大院的審議還沒有生效阿德根本沒有生效這只是你剛剛說的我們現在底氣就是我們在阿德當中已經談到了最優惠的待遇這就是我們現在的底氣我們要把握這種最優惠的待遇跟委員一樣對你選區裡面的所有產業給他最好的照顧所以現在生效的是"},{"start":32835.953,"end":32852.054,"text":"根據122的10%疊加MFN10%加MFN現在生效的這個那麼這個的之前是20%加MFN所以我們是往下降的所以現在工具G是14再加MFN就14然後機械業是大概11.5"},{"start":32855.293,"end":32877.902,"text":"所以再請教我們目前很多的未確定感那麼我們也說up的還沒有送進來那第二個也就是目前我們所謂的不疊加的這個部分那所以要請教在這個持續過程當中本身要請教有哪些產業"},{"start":32879.543,"end":32889.395,"text":"它是在關稅在15%的疊加之下它是關稅是不減反增你們有沒有去盤點過15%不疊加有沒有去盤點過所影響產業的產業別有哪一些是嚴重的影響請說明"},{"start":32899.636,"end":32917.003,"text":"我再跟委員確定一下我們15不疊加這個是還沒有生效的所以根本沒有實施的這個好 院長你講到這個20%加MFN降到現在的10加MFN對 所以院長現在就是您說的民眾產業有很多的不確定感"},{"start":32918.263,"end":32918.444,"text":"主席"},{"start":32937.194,"end":32961.145,"text":"這個公股銀行為主的金融機構已經主動用電話詢問中小企業你到底在這個關稅的變動當中有哪些需要政府現在啟用我們已經有的產業支持的方案與貸款與整個協助的金融保證協助的有沒有問題這個已經打出數萬通的電話這個是金融機構的那麼經濟部方面到各地針對各產業從過去的產業之旅到現在的關懷之旅"},{"start":32967.378,"end":32977.864,"text":"希望讓產業在現在這個衝擊沒有比以前大的情況底下能不能幫他轉守為攻讓他能夠吸引更多的訂單爭取更多的海外資源進來"},{"start":32978.769,"end":33007.952,"text":"因為鮑委員那個在去年的時候因為是20加NFN然後關稅就浮來浮去大家心比較不硬訂單要不要 心比較不硬你講到的這個是真實的面相但是今年因為時降下來了然後後續還會有ART所以心比較硬所以1月份那個訂單就很明顯的增加起來了那我們盡量在這段時間裡面需要我們幫助我們盡量先需要貸款的部分"},{"start":33008.942,"end":33027.527,"text":"需要去參展 國際參展我們需要來協助需要轉型的部分我們來補助他們政府當然有責任要全面的尤其在我們的傳統產業裡頭它占了很多的就業率這一點是很重要所以因此在這樣條件之下還是有很多的不確定感"},{"start":33028.367,"end":33046.835,"text":"剛剛卓院長也特別說了之前我們也一直要求行政院必須要針對於傳統產業怎麼樣協助他們能夠渡過難關所以在這樣的一個情況之下本席具體請教經濟部說產業支持目前你們是預計多少"},{"start":33048.192,"end":33052.135,"text":"總共是930億嘛那我們經濟部的是460億好 請教院長在剛剛我們從開始的20到現在一直講的這個過程還是變再變的情況之下請教這460億本席認為是不夠的"},{"start":33064.788,"end":33085.803,"text":"所以行政院有沒有要再增加這個金額的一個規劃比如說現有的他們要怎麼樣渡過難關我的律師已經要講不出來的情況之下我們會不會有第一個專案融資的一個額度"},{"start":33087.292,"end":33101.7,"text":"來協助我們的產業第二個也就是舊有的利息有沒有減免的等項目的這些規劃請做說明我先跟委員說明我們原來設定這個產業支持的方案的內容880億到930億這個是依照32%的"},{"start":33108.029,"end":33111.873,"text":"30%的關稅這個是當時我們具體要求的現在10%或15%委員剛剛說你認為不夠的我希望委員能告訴我們你認為哪裡不夠原來30%的時候我們訂了880億930億現在已經降到15%跟10%委員說哪裡不夠 告訴我們哪裡不夠"},{"start":33130.475,"end":33146.472,"text":"院長經濟部長在這裡我們知道我們的傳統產業目前是辛苦的目前是辛苦的所以我們才要要求政府必須要好好的來協助我們的傳統產業本期剛才所說的舊有的利息你會不會減免"},{"start":33147.633,"end":33169.527,"text":"現在是有這些方案什麼時候要執行就是但是還是有一些條件院長我們除了特別預算之外我們本來年度預算中間還有109億的中小微企業我們要實質的來落實所以本期剛剛請問了我已經就有的例行你們會不會有減免的方案會不會"},{"start":33172.53,"end":33185.55,"text":"那請問什麼時候要落實已經開始做了已經開始實行了所以我們也擴大宣導了已經開始實施了你說你現在一定會實施啦我們的選統參加 大家認證的都很多"},{"start":33189.095,"end":33211.716,"text":"那你說你要有條件說啦那表示說還有很多人沒有辦法去取得到協助啊那時候是講說你的業績要衰退10%嘛就可以有利息減免嘛那我們可以重新檢討如果要反手為攻的話是不是還要這樣好 就依據轉手為攻在不確定感的時候我們必須要去調整腳步"},{"start":33212.657,"end":33233.938,"text":"我們要的立法院通過的預算就是要真正能夠落實在我們的產業讓他們可以站穩腳步啊對不對您說的那些剛剛報告的利息的減免補貼等等在特別預算當中是有的而且各位報告特別預算還沒有通過之前經濟部就以緩計及就先做了"},{"start":33235.049,"end":33262.415,"text":"所以已經做很久了請你去盤點不是做很久現在產業希望能夠真正得到協助就誠如剛剛部長所說的我們的條件是怎麼樣那我們在目前的樣態裡頭你是不是應該要好好去檢討來調整這個腳步跟你的條件才能夠真正來落實照顧我們的傳統產業我們一直跟產業界有座談會那工協會也有"},{"start":33263.393,"end":33278.164,"text":"那我們會隨時知道就是說企業界他們需要的幫助重點在哪裡只有本席剛才所提出的請你趕快去盤點給本席什麼時候可以落實好不好我們先做了有幾個幾家 家宿的協助"},{"start":33278.724,"end":33295.991,"text":"具體的案例可以跟委員提供已經做的本期告訴你的院長是沒有得到協助的你要怎麼樣去協助我們現在有這個產業輔導團是主動的去到各地方去了解說他們需要協助什麼然後"},{"start":33297.972,"end":33316.482,"text":"診斷然後給他們協助好一個診斷但是產業界仍舊有需求所以我具體建議這個議題請你去盤點他們實際上需要的你的腳步怎麼去調真正能夠幫助我們的傳統產業這才是我們要的你多久時間可以給本席"},{"start":33317.602,"end":33342.197,"text":"你調整的腳步調整的腳步就是我們隨時在調整啊但是到目前為止我可以寫一份報告給北京我們也好好的來協助沒有得到協助的院長是沒有得到協助我們要怎麼樣去調整這才是一個重點所以我們已經主動關懷了那委員可以跟你的選區裡面的產業去了解一下如果你跟他們熟的話"},{"start":33342.737,"end":33365.751,"text":"如果有困難告訴我們我們把這個訊息再補上來所以一個重點不要只看得到才不會丟這是很重要因為我們的傳統產業務必一定要協助他們所以本席要說的因為目前為止美國的這個關稅體系呢他法源他隨時可以替換我想行政部門必須要好好的隨時去應對對不對"},{"start":33368.833,"end":33388.23,"text":"當然第二個國安與產業的政策高度的政治化的時候在整個貿易的決策也深受了政治這個選舉戰略的一個考量這個也是我們務必要注意的最後一個最重要的也就是不確定性成為常態的時候那我們台灣企業所面臨到"},{"start":33389.591,"end":33405.758,"text":"前所未有的營運風險這是政府的責任要好好讓他們有靠山對不對我們盡快想把它形勢穩定下來所有的條件確定下來讓產業界有所依循他們就可以大膽的去多爭取一下院長你現在終於講出真心話"},{"start":33406.698,"end":33430.551,"text":"你趕快把它確定讓我們產業可以安心這個就是本席一再說的這一個不確定感因為確定企業它最畏懼的並不是關稅的一個高低的輸贏我相信企業咱台灣的求雙龍就有個數它最怕的是無止境的不確定感這一點是非常的重要所以我們深怕的是今天是IPA"},{"start":33431.411,"end":33453.571,"text":"明天是122後天再轉回這個232條款或者是301這是我們所有的產業目前不確定感的一個最大的一個重點你點頭了也就是說如果這一些的現象它是常態化那台灣的供應鏈在3到5年的一個量產規劃的時候它要如何安排"},{"start":33454.178,"end":33474.807,"text":"尤其他整個企業的財務他要如何大幅度的盈虧的一個變化要怎麼樣跟股東來交代所以本期要具體來建立我們的合約裡頭到底有沒有因為情勢變更的原則有退場的條件有退場的條款請問卓院長"},{"start":33476.034,"end":33489.748,"text":"我們應該沒有所謂退場的條款在裡面好 院長你回答這個我們的合約沒有退場的這個條款所以這就是我們的民間以及產業心所畏懼的所以呢那個"},{"start":33493.271,"end":33521.331,"text":"我們的這個政府也說232條款的半導體它是有最惠國的大於不變但是122條款裡頭打擊的是全面性的商品所以我們還是要嚴正以待就誠如剛才所說的不夠需求的我們要怎麼樣加碼這應該是行政院你們基於在照顧我們所有的產業大家所一致的方向是 報告委員委員非常關心您所處的這個縣市的產業"},{"start":33523.252,"end":33538.063,"text":"當然我們心中一直都是為產業爭取最大利益那美國高院的判決232MO條款裡面的優惠待遇是不受影響的那至於傳產農業所攸關的對等關稅因為IEP法院發生變化"},{"start":33538.763,"end":33558.52,"text":"美方他們現在變數是來自美方他們的判決以及後續的法律工具的重整我們是去因應這樣的一個變化我們要在變動中去鞏固我們產業的這個利益那鞏固我們取得談判結果我不知道委員您知不支持ART生效因為我想ART生效對您選舉裡的產業是有幫助的"},{"start":33561.203,"end":33579.505,"text":"對於傳統產業我們絕對全力的支持所以本席要提出我們並不是要退場我們也不是要重啟談判我們是要去鞏固既有的談判成果才是對我們的傳統產業跟農業的出口爭取到最大的利益所以本席要提出有最惠國的優惠是在半導體"},{"start":33580.626,"end":33598.001,"text":"但是我們的農漁業我們的傳產所以本席具體提出第一個關於實質讓利於底線的部分要讓民眾清楚第二個情勢變更的這個機制要怎麼去做這是第二個第三個關於企業界關心的掏空台灣的長期風險"},{"start":33599.838,"end":33605.302,"text":"產業還是有關係我們不希望這樣的情勢發生所以針對這三項具體書面報告給本席 好嗎沒有這樣的一個問題謝謝因為投資MOU就是雙方的供應好 謝謝楊卓英委員質詢謝謝 謝謝卓院長 政府院長以及經濟部長備詢 謝謝接下來我們請鍾嘉斌委員質詢廖先祥委員請準備"},{"start":33640.447,"end":33668.773,"text":"主席 政務委員先進列席的政務機關事長 官員會長 工作夥伴媒體記者 女士先生我想就不用勞駕院長 副院長因為你們是做決策的人接下來我要就教於我們農業部的陳部長請還有經濟部的龔部長請因為未來他們在政策的執行上需要我們院裡面來支持所以一定 你坐在那你就頂到就好我們部長做什麼承諾你就點頭全力支持好不好先休息一下 來 陳部長 來 龔部長"},{"start":33670.974,"end":33683.94,"text":"來我的要點很單純農安基金要改善設備強化農業體質受到戰事波及我們的能源也要求多元求自主來我先看三個圖來看到什麼有三個產品陳部長蝴蝶蘭對不對"},{"start":33685.427,"end":33713.815,"text":"這是我們屏東的蝴蝶蘭 號稱蝴蝶蘭界的台積電人家是印鈔票 他的蘭花也等於在印鈔票另外有一個什麼 火鶴花這我一位老朋友 三十年了 混動很久還有一個不是那個年輕的帥哥 他手上拿著什麼青蛙 青蛙不是拿來吃的 是觀賞蛙部長 大家看 我們這個年輕人六年出口觀賞蛙到美國可以賺多少錢六年就三千萬"},{"start":33717.782,"end":33741.207,"text":"他現在是美國一般的消費者市場裡面最大的供應商好 請教一下我們這一次IEPA因為我們的關稅優惠得而復失蝴蝶籠會不會受影響我們的那個觀賞花會不會受影響我們的火候花會不會受影響這些都是我們的我們去爭取的這些專屬的豁免的這個項目那現在還有維持嗎"},{"start":33742.165,"end":33768.187,"text":"那現在我想ART現在還沒有正式生效嘛但是現在的122的時候並沒有這樣的一個專屬優惠率的條件所以是10%但是它相對於去年的20%它還是有比較有相對的一個競爭力特別是在122條款裡面去年是20%是個地獄今年呢10%來到人間有沒有機會是0%上天堂有沒有辦法支持這業者"},{"start":33769.268,"end":33785.774,"text":"我想這個零關稅在ART裡面的內容我們一定會去確保他並沒有不見我們現在正在跟美國做一個確認跟公共有沒有做一個最後的打算萬一不能恢復到0%還是維持10%的時候對這些我們能夠出口專外匯的業者他的競爭力你怎麼支持他"},{"start":33786.594,"end":33807.668,"text":"我想我們農安基金還是會持續的去支持包括我們農業部的本預算怎麼支持以蝴蝶能來講基本上第一個部分就是我們現在的花創中心已經把我們的產業園區跟研究單位結合在一起簡單講方法金額跟時程有沒有有沒有方法金額大概多少"},{"start":33811.491,"end":33831.386,"text":"整個花卉部分大概是20億左右10成多少之後可以落胃如果談定之後需要的話我想不是在談定的開始我們現在就已經開始在做了我們現在是用180億在做所以希望你其實去支持我們的蝴蝶蘭我們的果褐花還有我們的觀賞花好 接下來下一個來 液態乳"},{"start":33832.327,"end":33857.195,"text":"美國進口的液態乳 我跟部長也知道我很關心洛農2013年台紐貿易自由協定之後呢我們從2025年去年開始有零關稅我們的鹿農都炒在蛋了結果我們看這幾年來從紐西蘭進口呢其實液態乳是持平 但是進口的冰磚乳大量的提升會不會美國也開放零關稅之後也同樣的紐西蘭之後我們要受到美國液態乳的衝擊"},{"start":33858.495,"end":33880.251,"text":"我要跟委員說明一件事情 冰磚爐反而是下降你說紐西蘭的冰磚爐下降了對 就是整個冰磚爐下降 紐西蘭提高 但是澳洲減少的非常多所以以去年來講 整體的液態爐本身它大概只有0.8%的增幅 大概600多噸部長我們要確認一下啦 我們要說明 我們講同樣一致啦"},{"start":33880.811,"end":33910.029,"text":"因為冰磚爐這個東西是紐澳才有的啦 美國沒有冰磚爐來啦美國跟紐澳都有液態爐 但是冰磚爐只有紐澳結果我們要受痛吃苦的就是冰磚爐啦那冰磚爐我們很關心喔 這幾年有提起來喔你們怎麼確定說 那美國的液態爐要進來也就是說 美國的液態爐是跟紐西蘭的冰磚爐比起來美國的液態爐相對沒有競爭力啦坦白說啦 我們比較不擔心美國的液態爐啦我們比較擔心紐西蘭的冰磚爐啦"},{"start":33910.922,"end":33921.677,"text":"那去年來講以去年的資料齁整個冰川堡減少了6.3%那紐西蘭有提高但是澳洲減少了那你預期美國的義太魯零關稅開放進口之後會不會衝擊到紐西蘭的佔有率"},{"start":33924.994,"end":33941.985,"text":"他們兩個之間會競爭但是會不會侵蝕到我們酪農的鮮乳嘛對不對以去年來講我們的政策的實施是對的所以整個的液態乳並沒有增加好 那我要跟你提醒冰磚乳都用在業務乳業務乳就不是消費者自己去買的鮮乳"},{"start":33942.705,"end":33965.16,"text":"他說放在我們的能飲店啊手搖店啊他在裡面加鮮奶茶其實加的不是鮮奶加的是液態乳的還原乳農業部有什麼對策我們去年就用那個相關的這些手搖飲的店去推我們的鮮乳而且他們用了他們自己的品那限定用本土的酪農的乳才能標示為鮮乳本來是今年七月要上路可不可以提早"},{"start":33965.76,"end":33992.72,"text":"我想我們現在正在跟衛福部還有跟業者溝通因為去年公布的時候是7月那我們現在看業者本身是不是已經印了那個紙盒如果被託的話可不可以跟我們提前如果說可以的話業者也同意的話我們就願意提前我們也這樣子呼籲消費者以後只要是買鮮奶茶鮮奶什麼東東的只要他的商品名品項有寫鮮奶現用本土肉農的鮮奶進口的不管冰磚乳液態乳通通不能用對不對不能標示為鮮奶是而且我們會強調台灣鮮乳唯一選擇"},{"start":33994.701,"end":34020.1,"text":"好 謝謝 我們看一下來另外 這個就是我們進口我們的結論就是說美國進口的義太魯其實影響不大我們還是擔心紐西蘭的冰川魯再下來 那麼進口零關稅豬肉 花生 現在零關稅了 有沒有影響我想豬肉是減半 但是豬肉可以完全放心因為豬肉美國的市佔率不到1%第一個部分 第二個部分目前在台灣進口豬肉最大眾的是不是加拿大加拿大 而且為什麼"},{"start":34020.72,"end":34048.559,"text":"美國進口的豬肉即使降稅到一半他還是比加拿大多四塊簡單講美國的豬肉關稅降了還是打不過加拿大但是台灣的消費市場加拿大已經緊繃啊不會影響到我們本土豬的銷量對不對我們市貸率大概百分之五十五到百分之八十八那花生呢大概八十五那花生呢花生本身是我們必須關注的齁但是我要跟委員分享一下就是雖然說美國進口的價格"},{"start":34051.561,"end":34070.61,"text":"但是我們要把價格戰變成價值的競爭請問一下美國進口的是有殼花生帶殼花生或是脫殼花生現在進來的是調製花生他的去殼花生都沒有進簡單講啦如果進來的不是帶殼花生不影響我一般的零售消費市場啦"},{"start":34071.35,"end":34091.907,"text":"但是如果是脫殼花生是食品加工使用啦如果說關稅越少成本越低食品加工業者他賣給消費者的價格就越低所以我這邊要談相連說要讓消費者知道美國的農產品進口台灣關稅下降如果不影響到本土農民的銷售而是降低了我食品加工業者的成本"},{"start":34092.594,"end":34113.768,"text":"反而是消費者得利的你同不同意一部分是這樣子但是我要特別強調就是說花生的部分我們一定會扭轉現在目前的整個花生的一個產業結構我不要再讓花生在曬乾的地方用馬路來曬所以我們會用絲夾的方式去調整產業結構我要讓花生變成一個有價值的"},{"start":34114.404,"end":34123.676,"text":"這一個產業所以我們未來會從價格戰價格的競爭轉換成價值的競爭好 那加上農安基金請問農安基金農安基金可以用來補貼價格嗎"},{"start":34126.287,"end":34152.248,"text":"我們是希望去我先問一下農安基金如果補貼價格是違反國際貿易的啦那你農安基金要用在哪裡我想我們基本上會用在整個產業結構的調整上面去協助它提升它的一個效率具體來講是不是協助改善農民的生產設備譬如說酪農對不對好我要告訴你目前我們酪農最大的障礙不是酪農的生產技術是來自於小型的爐品加工廠太少"},{"start":34152.768,"end":34172.666,"text":"因為我們現在三大爐廠四大爐廠壟斷了我們的市佔率他在前面的進料的時候壓低了酪農的進價如果說可以多一點小型的中小型的這個爐品加工廠能夠讓酪農可以就地供應所以目前全台灣不超過20家小型的那個爐品加工廠"},{"start":34173.507,"end":34195.3,"text":"農業部可不可以支持讓他們提升改善他們的設備來造福我們的酪農我們去年已經在做了就是讓小農的品牌自由品牌能夠提高它的一個效率跟它的市場區隔跟品牌所以你們會繼續的支持我們的酪農跟我們相對的乳品加工廠會好謝謝那接下來我們來問一下來請問一下管部長台積電赴美投資有何效益"},{"start":34196.786,"end":34218.659,"text":"台積電對啊 到美國投資有什麼好處比如說掏空台灣啊不是 台積電現在的第一個廠已經開始賺錢了 今年所以台積電去美國投資 它是賺錢的會回饋到我們公司來我們看一看 台積電董卓衛哲家說美國客戶對AI的需求非常強烈像是蘋果輝達在美國擴大產能 它能支持客戶需求"},{"start":34219.099,"end":34243.323,"text":"他說因為我到美國投資我接近我的客戶的需求端我更能夠及早了解客戶的需求這就是滬美投資的好處你同不同意因為他2024年第一個產2024年開始投產真正的投產因為前面是蓋廠開始投產今年就賺錢所以說去美國投資是接近客戶了解客戶的需求那有沒有辦法加深跟美國的技術合作有"},{"start":34244.576,"end":34253.256,"text":"那如果說可以掌握客戶需求及早滿足又能夠跟美國合作那台積電到美國投資是不是就是強強聯手佈局全球"},{"start":34253.939,"end":34278.658,"text":"是我們力量很延伸啦台灣力量很延伸美國的頂尖技術跟台灣的領先製造合作後創造一個飛鴻供應鏈在技術交流的情況之下台灣的技術資金跟美國的品牌跟研發我們有沒有可能來投資第三國來扮演原來台灣或者其他中國的組裝的角色比如說你最近常去哪裡?菲律賓對不對?菲律賓去過"},{"start":34281.401,"end":34309.332,"text":"亞洲的半導體除了台灣之外就是馬來西亞就是檳城這兩個地方我最近常去我看到那邊非常的旺盛甚至菲律賓要開新的航線指揮越南河內為什麼因為他估計從中國昆山蘇州特殊來到河內的廠商總有一天要飛到菲律賓為什麼飛鴻供應鏈你認為值不值得我們台灣跟美國強強合作佈局全球投資第三國現在已經包括這個產業的相關的工協會已經開始"},{"start":34310.768,"end":34325.183,"text":"有考量到菲律賓去做群聚上的一些投資的部長請教一下你最近去了從去年一整年到現在你去了幾次可以講嗎菲律賓我上任以後有去過去過字數不能講見了誰不能講"},{"start":34328.505,"end":34344.796,"text":"那你覺得未來是不是鼓勵我們台灣的電子相關產業可以及早跟美國合作到菲律賓去佈局運用他那邊比較相對便宜的生產成本跟電力來做組裝來取代過去的中國現在的越南來行銷美國的市場"},{"start":34345.58,"end":34374.173,"text":"是 我們當然還是要尊重廠商他們自主的意願那如果有那樣的意願表達的話那我們就會協助他們不管是行政上的協助或者是幫忙跟菲律賓來做溝通爭取到比較好的條件比如說投資的地方 Location然後他有什麼樣的條件還有行政上的協助這個我們是可以幫忙的簡單來講我不叫你報股市名牌啦我說如果今天問你說去菲律賓佈局投資你會不會推薦"},{"start":34375.393,"end":34395.243,"text":"菲律賓是我們的政策其中很重要的一環可以啦我們往下看按照台灣在野黨的晶片國安法你覺得會對我們的晶片或半導體產業產生什麼影響國會亂檔限制社產規模設定生產比例出去還要報告跨國會審查你覺得這可以嗎報告委員"},{"start":34396.966,"end":34417.179,"text":"就是我們現在的投審機制我個人覺得還算蠻完備的我們要每一個廠去投資對外投資的時候我們都要考量它會不會涉及到國家安全第二個對整體產業的利益到底影響怎麼樣第三個它在國內的相對投資還有技術投資的情況所以簡單的結論 金面國安法沒有必要"},{"start":34417.97,"end":34438.986,"text":"我們現在做的就已經夠了我覺得如果是這樣因為總統對外頭一直講的就是立足台灣佈局全球還有行銷全世界這三個話是要一起講的如果你只有立足台灣沒有去佈局全球的話沒有行銷全世界立足台灣是沒有辦法成立的"},{"start":34439.326,"end":34450.205,"text":"所以如果按照在野黨的說法弄了一些芯片國安法我們的產業會錯失先機企業不敢留下來而且夥伴會喪失信任未來高科技產業赴美投資或對外投資變成了在野黨同意你覺得這合理嗎"},{"start":34451.796,"end":34479.222,"text":"我覺得還是要回歸到這個產業上專業上來判斷就是我們剛才講國家安全跟整體產業利益還有國內的相對他的投資跟技術布局為了避免你得罪在野黨的黨團領袖我看前面是我的意見我看對外投資要管制總召進金免申報這是我們看到荒謬情況國民黨總召傅坤祺開議前傅忠林子成立新公事結果公佈門說國民黨團應該要考察要公佈考察報告他不講"},{"start":34479.942,"end":34508.876,"text":"結果他們就主張說晶片國安法跟政府資金無關的這些高科技產業居然要跟他們報告這是荒謬至極這是我的意見只准副總召進京不准高科技去勉強這個是我的意見好往下看來最大的LNG來源國卡達最近傳出停產怎麼辦能源自主能源危機怎麼辦目前我們現在波灣的產量占全世界一半以上那是不是占我國的八成"},{"start":34509.383,"end":34515.945,"text":"有沒有沒有 我如果以天然氣 天然氣比較多啦所以我們現在分散採購了嘛 對不對大概百分之三十左右"},{"start":34516.789,"end":34540.976,"text":"那就是要經過荷姆斯海峽的啦我們現在3月份的這個來源已經確保了所以說台灣其實並沒有天然氣集中從波灣進口的這樣的風險但是接下來我問你一個問題了但是我們的天然氣接收站如果量能不足遇到這樣的一個波灣他們那邊不出貨別的地方加強出貨我們沒有東西接怎麼辦這些進度跟設備來得及完工嗎"},{"start":34541.576,"end":34547.901,"text":"所以我們現在為什麼要一直到四階的部分還有三階的部分希望能夠"},{"start":34549.486,"end":34572.276,"text":"擴充它的這個儲藏量但是我們還是要跟附近所以希望你們把握進度不要耽擱最後一個問題就是能源自主我剛剛看到報宅啊地熱啊結果中油呢台灣中油失職啊完全沒有進度是不是可以承諾一個目標什麼時候我們地熱開發能夠來補足國家的能源缺口它也不是沒有進度它是打下去以後覺得溫度我瞭解這種事情要看運氣但是我"},{"start":34579.824,"end":34591.508,"text":"好 謝謝鍾嘉斌委員質詢 謝謝兩位部長備詢 謝謝接下來我們請今天質詢最後一位委員登記第22號廖先祥委員請質詢好 謝謝韓院長 麻煩邀請我們卓院長 鄭副院長麻煩再請卓院長 鄭副院長備詢"},{"start":34614.107,"end":34628.756,"text":"好大家辛苦了除了今天一整天在這邊被尋之外也在這邊跟談判團隊說聲感謝這一年來你們非常的努力為中華民國在努力但感謝歸感謝我必須說這一次的談判成果"},{"start":34629.178,"end":34654.298,"text":"我認為談判的並不好這一次我們的談判成果我們很明確的拿到了我們要的那個蘋果也就是剛剛我們一再口中說的我們15%不疊加或者說323的豁免等等的但是我們一直避談我們所付出的包括我們的內政被干涉包括我們未來對美國的一些投資這些都是我們用未來我們年輕人的工作的機會來換取現在國內的一個"},{"start":34658.16,"end":34683.807,"text":"產業的一個安定這是一個交換我不敢說我一定對或者是誰對這個可能需要歷史去見證但是我們目前有遇到一些美國關稅的法定判這個判決剛剛許多委員都有關心但是我認為剛剛我們行政院的一個回覆回答的並不明確因為我們知道在這個關稅違法之後許多的企業都跟美國申請關稅的一個要退回我們這個當初的一個違法的關稅對不對那剛剛說"},{"start":34686.848,"end":34703.957,"text":"這個關稅很多是進口商繳的這是事實 這是沒錯的但是我們今天要談的重點也是韓國他們的重點就是有很多是完稅交貨的這些進口的一些廠商我們要如何去協助他申請退稅這一點可不可以請我們講得更清楚一點"},{"start":34705.173,"end":34721.192,"text":"想報告委員其實剛剛鍾嘉斌委員的質詢當中可以看到這次台美在232條款的談判裡面投資MOU我們談出來的並不是盧委員所說的所謂犧牲未來年輕人的機會而是在我們的產業實力的延伸"},{"start":34724.555,"end":34739.103,"text":"這個等一下我會再提我們先回答退稅的問題好嗎我很快的會跟您委員報告我們結合市場結合客戶來這個AI需求成長的過程當中台美在美國合作打造供應鏈這是產業實力的延伸"},{"start":34739.483,"end":34758.71,"text":"我們也會持續擴大投資台灣所以是一個加法的發展不是減法的發展這一點請委員放心而且我們所談出來台灣模式其實不是日本韓國的政府出資模式是更有利於我們產業在為我們的產業在美國爭取更好有今天聽一天了你可以回答我的問題了嗎我想今天這一點我們關稅"},{"start":34759.77,"end":34776.911,"text":"退稅我們怎麼協助這些DDP嘛對不對DDP的模式企業如何退稅因為他涉及美國國內的法律程序那經濟部會邀請相關的這個專家跟我們產業界來說明我想這個部分是不是我們可以說得更清楚一點嗎"},{"start":34778.552,"end":34799.903,"text":"韓國很明確的就是指出他們要用國家隊要用團隊戰的方式來跟美國的政府提出訴訟或者是法律上的需求政府他不是當事人他沒有辦法當訴訟的主體但是他是背後的一個應援把所有的企業結合起來去跟美國的政府包括談判或者是官司的訴訟我們有辦法做到這一點嗎"},{"start":34800.703,"end":34821.576,"text":"我們會應援但是我們的貿易模式基本上跟韓國不一樣韓國他是以大貿易商為主那我們大部分都是幫美國的一些企業做代工業或是他的進口商委託下單所以貿易的型態不太一樣那我直接問最簡單的一點韓國做得到的我們未來能不能做到"},{"start":34822.591,"end":34850.684,"text":"如果說韓國外來有哪些具體協助企業退稅的方案我們是不是中華民國政府當作低標最起碼比照他來協助我們的企業可以做到嗎請部長先說一下我們做的部分如果我們企業有這樣的需求的話我們當然會支持來做這樣的事情打團對戰政府當後盾可能包括律師費用或是相關的一些行政程序上面的成本我們政府要來協助企業而不是讓企業問完我們他自己去單打獨鬥"},{"start":34851.804,"end":34866.964,"text":"我的概念就是這樣而已可以嗎那個要看個案來看好啦好啦連自己的企業被收了違法的關稅的回答都這麼的模糊我是會比較擔心一點啦那你提出個案來我來協助啊"},{"start":34868.158,"end":34892.506,"text":"每一個企業都是個案啊每一個被縮水都是個案每一個DDP的企業都是個案啊剛剛鞏部長已經有說明了所以您只要提出來我就來協助因為我們根據我們產業的樣態跟美國的貿易的模式因為因應美國內部的國內的法律程序我們一定要針對我們的特性來提供專業的意見我只是希望我們打團隊戰用國家隊的方式來協助這些企業那剛剛談到了我們的"},{"start":34899.149,"end":34924.549,"text":"那這一次美國的司法最高法院他是判決的一個精神是對外貿易的權利在於國會而不是單單的在focus關稅這一點上面沒錯所以說我們剛剛你們一再提及說我們現在的ART正在等美國確定他的法令基礎嘛對不對然後之後才會來重新送到我們的國會才會送到我們國會你們剛剛是這樣講嘛對不對"},{"start":34926.127,"end":34947.254,"text":"那我們如何確認如果說美國說他又依據了哪一個法令的基礎但是他同樣沒有依照憲法沒有國會的授權我講得非常清楚美國最高聯邦法院的判決對美國對外貿易的權利來自於國會行政權是不能逾越的除非立法機構授予他的權利"},{"start":34949.345,"end":34976.801,"text":"這點應該您比我還清楚那美國未來如果提出來的一個法令基礎沒有經過國會的授權我們會認賬嗎?還是說你們會做怎樣的判斷?其實這些判決文都公開了委員其實可以更詳細看一下他美國高院的判決是判決說當時對等關稅川普總統援引IEPA的這個權利逾越他的權限會失效所以他未來我們不知道他會援引什麼法令對不對我們現在還不知道"},{"start":34977.761,"end":34992.246,"text":"那你未來如何判斷川普已經有一次失敗的例子了那他下一次再提的你們要再亂全說嗎還是你們要怎麼來判斷這是一個假設性的問題你假設川普政府會第二次引用一個錯誤"},{"start":34993.286,"end":35010.48,"text":"一個法律工具我們不知道錯不錯誤但是我們必須要避免可能的風險嘛對不對我們不能簽了之後我們設廠投資了我們承諾都做到了最後這個ART最後又被美國有很多法律工具也不是我們在這裡去指導說"},{"start":35011.821,"end":35037.953,"text":"所以我說我們未來在怎麼樣的去判斷美國剛剛你們一直在提及說我們在等美國重構他的法理基礎嘛對不對那當他提出他的法理基礎了我們要怎麼判斷他這個法理基礎他提了我們就認嗎還是你們會有你們的判斷他必須要說明他的依據是怎麼樣來符合現在雙邊談好的這個協議的內容他依據的法律的工具是什麼告訴我們"},{"start":35039.133,"end":35067.908,"text":"法律的依據因為他現在公布122條款對 副院長應該很清楚我在提什麼其實2月24號就生效了嘛10加MA分嘛那他對各國都課這個122條款下10加MA分他就生效了所以我們政府要做的當然是說在這個他122的過渡期這當中我們看他比原來20加MA分降低了但我們仍然我們的這個支持方案仍然持續的支持我不是在跟您提細部的每一個關稅的內容我們會不會去評估這個法理基礎的合法性"},{"start":35068.268,"end":35094.107,"text":"任何可能 我們當然都會去整體的關注跟評估我在第一時間新聞稿 記者會都有說明了不管它援引什麼樣的法律工具我們都會去密切的關注跟稅務的了解所以你們會去判斷它援引的法律你們會去判斷 可能去找美國的專業的法律律師去判斷它是不是合理的嘛對不對當然我們也都是有相關的法律律師我們的OTM辦公室都有但是我們仍然要因應嘛"},{"start":35094.667,"end":35097.63,"text":"對我只是要避免我們只是要避免我們簽的一個東西因為他已經有過一次被判決違法的經驗了我們要避免"},{"start":35110.39,"end":35136.1,"text":"我們付出了之後這樣的事情再次發生所以我們在法律上面的一個判讀是非常重要的這也是我們後來你們我們行政院我們談判團隊後來必須之後要密切注意的一個地方其實報告委員我們的行政院記者會都把122、301然後201、338所有的法律的這個它原用的可能的法律工具它的程序性質法源都說明清楚了"},{"start":35136.52,"end":35160.813,"text":"我想在我們當時的記者會都有說明我們也會密切關注但是我們不能只是關注嘛我們談判團隊要做就是不論他後續的法律工具如何安排我仍然必須要聯繫溝通確保我們取得的談判結果對 談判結果當然認不認同剛剛講的這個是我們認知上面的落差我沒有說你一定要接受我的觀念我也不一定要全部接受你的觀念他的法理基礎我就要確認他"},{"start":35161.914,"end":35185.456,"text":"未來會被判決違法的一個風險我們是必須要先事先考慮的我只是提醒我們的行政團隊那第二個問題假設我們這個ART簽了對不對那在這次122的一個10加MFN的一個關稅這個制度下面我們大概有400項原本ART裡面被豁免的部分它是沒有被涵蓋在內對不對"},{"start":35187.372,"end":35197.22,"text":"是這樣子嗎對不對工業部門是440多項有些產業可能數字我沒有那麼清楚27項專屬的原來在ART裡面專屬27項沒有那如果說我們未來在談ART的時候我們勢必是要去爭取這一些項目是維持那這樣對你們來說就不是簽原本的ART了對不對"},{"start":35214.502,"end":35235.529,"text":"就是維持原來的原來維持那我現在請教一個問題假設ART我假設一種情況ART現在我們簽署了生效了那美國他現在祭出122這個條款目前剛剛講的400多項的工業產品他會被課什麼樣的稅還沒有生效還沒有生效假設現在生效他是試用ART還是試用10加MNF"},{"start":35242.003,"end":35264.415,"text":"你一直用假設那現在狀況是我原來圈的這個R的內容是沒有生效的他現在是10加MFN我們要去預判情形嘛我們都已經公開說明了美國政府也對世界各國都說了122是一個階段性的措施現在我們要關注的是122之後他後續要接軌的法律工具"},{"start":35264.975,"end":35288.315,"text":"所以我們在這個過渡的過程當中 未來他要走向什麼樣的法律架構我們依然要希望 假設這150天內 這150天內好了 我們簽好了他們提出法律的架構了 基礎了 我們立法院也同意了那他到時候會適用哪一邊的法律 哪一邊的條文是適用ART 還是適用10加MFN 就是那些剛剛提到的被排除在外的那些項目"},{"start":35289.075,"end":35303.407,"text":"應該是一二二的階段性措施之後過渡他新的法律工具所以我們最終要確認是他後面的法律工具的安排所以他會先適用時加MNF嗎對不對您不太願意講但是我的理解他應該是適用時加MNF是嗎"},{"start":35306.305,"end":35326.34,"text":"10加MFN只是一個過渡過渡的期間他就是適用這些委員記不記得在4月2號公布對等關稅我國是32加上MFN當時美國也公布一個暫時性的10加MFN讓各國來談判這個10加MFN當時一直持續到7月我只是在提剛剛你們一再提ART這個架構裡面的內容你們認為不宜去調整的"},{"start":35330.103,"end":35345.175,"text":"但是你不去調整如何去保護那一些當初沒有被涵蓋在內的那400多家的企業我覺得這是你們要去思考的你們希望涵蓋在內就代表你們按照原本的韓文他是沒有被涵蓋在內的嘛對不對"},{"start":35347.357,"end":35360.387,"text":"400多項是在ART裡面是豁免的就是要滾過ART才能夠持續拿回400多項因為我剛剛問你ART生效的時候在150天之內的情況下ART生效的話它是適用哪一邊嘛"},{"start":35361.428,"end":35379.508,"text":"我們希望維持R的內容啊所以是用R還是10加MNF那400多項10加MNF那個就已經是暫時性的那150天內嘛之後會過渡掉嘛那過渡掉我們就希望說最後面的他過渡不會為了中華民國過渡啊他一定是全球一起豁免啊或一起取消啊"},{"start":35380.529,"end":35403.657,"text":"對不對報告委員 我再重更委員報告這個美國貿易代表已經說明了 格瑞爾大使已經說明了122是一個階段性的措施但150天內是122嘛 之後其他的嘛對不對所以我一直在問你一直在問你這五個月內的時間內嘛五個月後當然是用新的嘛對不對 我當然了解啊我是問你五個月內啊你都不敢"},{"start":35405.738,"end":35428.473,"text":"就試用五個月內假設ART生效試用誰如果是時間不一定是五個月因為它是說極限是150天那這個是要美方政策的變動嘛所以我也請委員你可以密切關注一下美國政府的發言這個還有一點時間啦我知道有些問題你們好像也不願意太正面的回答那我們希望維持原來的R的"},{"start":35429.153,"end":35456.058,"text":"那希望美國也要啟動他新的法律工具來讓阿德有法法我們現在在等美國的回應嘛對不對我們現在在等美國的回應啦不要說我們都在批評還是什麼樣子的我剛剛一開始就先感謝你們的付出我們在討論怎樣為中華民國更好那其實在我們這一次的ART的文本裡面有一項啦其實國人普遍非常支持的其實美國也要求的那一項你知道是什麼嗎"},{"start":35457.23,"end":35475.805,"text":"美國製造的車輛進口零關稅我覺得在等待的這段期間你們一部分可以跟美國釋出善意一部分也滿足國內民眾對於購買自車零關稅的一個期待或許我們這一條可以先上路 您認為呢"},{"start":35476.721,"end":35481.644,"text":"我們更要照顧到汽車相關產業所以我們是全盤在考量不是說關稅進來沒有買的人很誠意這樣就好那產業國內產業我們還要經濟部還要全力去維護這個產業的生存跟產業未來能夠繼續能夠在合理的你簽了之後也是要維護嘛對不對你先開放也是要維護嘛都是要維護啊"},{"start":35499.335,"end":35518.016,"text":"是吧 簽了之後也是要維護嘛對不對因為你現在如果說同時成立同時生效以後是包括美國來的汽車零組件也是我認為在談判的過程中我們有一些對美方可能不太同意的部分我們希望說再"},{"start":35527.233,"end":35551.332,"text":"好,謝謝廖先祥委員的質詢,謝謝卓院長、政府院長、經濟部長備詢,謝謝報告委員會。本日排定質詢的委員均已經質詢完畢。非常感謝卓院長、政府院長以及相關部會首長列席答詢。我們現在做一下決定。一,請各委員發言記錄及書面質詢涵送行政院,請就位答覆部分與書面答覆。二,"},{"start":35551.952,"end":35565.145,"text":"已提出之書面質詢尚未登載公報者一律補刊再一次感謝盧憲宜委員謝榮介委員陪同我們參與今天的專案報告現在散會辛苦啊"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}