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PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":617.117,"end":617.197,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":646.215,"end":646.296,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":830.623,"end":850.572,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":935.725,"end":937.022,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MING PAO TORONTO"},{"start":1092.807,"end":1093.899,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":1153.194,"end":1153.295,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":1268.434,"end":1269.606,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":1315.001,"end":1315.162,"text":"谢谢观看,下次见!"},{"start":1398.157,"end":1399.568,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":1534.437,"end":1548.149,"text":"好 立法院第11屆第5會期經濟財政兩委員會第一次聯席會議先請組密報告初期人數報告委員會初期委員18人 已組法定人數好 我們現在開始開會首先進行討論事項 請宣讀"},{"start":1552.014,"end":1570.91,"text":"考論事項審查1.本院委員邱志偉等17人拟據產業創新條例第10條第23條之一及第23條之二條人修正草案2.本院委員鍾嘉斌等20人拟據產業創新條例第39條第46條及第46條之一條人修正草案3.本院台灣民眾黨黨團拟據產業創新條例第30條條人修正草案4."},{"start":1574.893,"end":1585.94,"text":"本院委員賴銳榮等21人委員陳廷輝等19人委員蔡玉儀等17人及台灣民眾黨黨團分別拟據《產業創新條例》部分條件修正草案等4案5.本院委員陳廷輝等5.本院委員邱振軍等17人委員林建吉等20人分別拟據《產業創新條例》第10條之1及第72條條件修正草案等2案"},{"start":1605.714,"end":1626.343,"text":"六 本院委員王宏威等23人擬拒 產業創新條例第10條條件修正草案七 本院委員廖偉強等19人擬拒 產業創新條例第10條之一及第23條之一條件修正草案八 本院委員滇一學莊等16人擬拒 產業創新條例第61條之一及第70條條件修正草案案 宣讀完畢"},{"start":1628.373,"end":1654.81,"text":"好 今天總共有12個提案版本包括主席還有鍾嘉賓委員 臺灣民眾黨黨團賴榮委員 陳廷輝委員 邱振鈞委員 王虎委員廖偉祥委員 丁學森委員 林慶熙委員蔡宇宇委員好 我們現在先請提案的委員或者黨團來進行提案說明好 我們在場有臺灣民眾黨團由胡義強委員代表"},{"start":1663.857,"end":1674.024,"text":"好那個台灣民眾黨團的提案說明那主要的話我們的這個本黨團的產業創新條例部分修正的一個草案"},{"start":1674.878,"end":1693.663,"text":"那主要起因是在2023年監察院糾正流行紡織東北光電的一個紡織案那2024年監察院糾正這個聯合再生的一個違約案另外的話呢我們在立法院2024到2025之間其成立了國家發展基金"},{"start":1694.463,"end":1718.363,"text":"不當的投資暨管理失職調查的委員會在2025年5月專案調查的報告函送了國發會跟經濟部在2025年的9月根據上述的這些弊案的形成跟調查的結果我們民眾黨團提出產創條例的修正草案"},{"start":1719.324,"end":1726.802,"text":"那主要呢是有介於近年國家發展基金預辦投資標的嚴重的一個虧損跟弊案的一個頻傳"},{"start":1728.325,"end":1749.043,"text":"那麼我們有很多的投資案都具有先設建再劃把之疑慮那投資的審議的監督機制形同了虛設同時呢這個退場的機制嚴重的僵化甚至我們所投資的事業屢傳重大違反公司的治理的事件"},{"start":1749.904,"end":1763.631,"text":"那整個在國家發展基金之管理的一個規範實在是有必要把它以法律的明文來進行規定來強化監督那避免我們人民的納稅錢遭到一個讓止"},{"start":1765.012,"end":1785.411,"text":"那希望透過這樣的修法可以讓這個國發基金的一個管理達到全責的相符審查的程序公開透明並且把這樣的機制給法制化那麼達成我們國家重大投資不浪費然後沒有這樣子的舞弊的日後的一個情況再發生謝謝"},{"start":1787.168,"end":1804.246,"text":"好謝謝民眾黨團這個洪委員的提案說明這一場沒有提案委員那我們先請部會做報告所以請經濟部市長何進昌何市長報告"},{"start":1816.804,"end":1839.442,"text":"主席各位委員女士先生們大家早安今天貴委員會與財政委員會聯席審查大院邱委員邱氏和委員等各委員分別擬據產業創新條例相關條文修正查案計12案僅代表經濟部向貴委員會提出報告敬請視教"},{"start":1840.943,"end":1865.94,"text":"產業生意條例為我國推動產業升級轉型的重要經濟法案以推動產業創新的方向從產業發展的方針創新的投入無形資產流通運用產業人才資源的發展產業投資永續發展以及產業環境等構面提出政府的具體作為另外整合產業園區設置管理的法制促進產業用地的活化利用"},{"start":1868.503,"end":1882.719,"text":"因為產業發展的這個需求政府進行產業創新條例的這個修正作業自民國99年施行以來已經歷經10次的修正最近一次的修正公布的日期為114年5月7日進來"},{"start":1887.741,"end":1910.654,"text":"因全球科技日新月異世界主要國家多投入發展人工智慧及新興產業領域為因應國際的趨勢我國產業急需要推動數位淨零雙軸轉型加上新創事業是驅動產業升級轉型及經濟成長的關鍵推力協助新創事業穩健發展也是政府近年"},{"start":1911.714,"end":1930.191,"text":"施政的重點 因此本部檢討修正產狀條例相關的規定並在114年5月7號 奉總統修正公佈將AI及節能減碳納入設備投資抵減試用項目提高支出金額試用上限至新台幣20億元並延長實行期間至118年底"},{"start":1933.914,"end":1953.267,"text":"至於鼓勵投資新創部分則調整適用門檻及要件以增加新創募資的機會另為了避免關鍵技術外流也明定對外投資申請核准情形及罰則為利業者申請租稅優惠措施本部已經召開多次的法規宣導說明會"},{"start":1955.068,"end":1973.264,"text":"向業者深入說明各項租稅優惠的措施及申請的方式鼓勵業者來善用政府的資源本次審查的會議共有12個版本提案的內容包括產業投資租稅優惠及對外投資管理機制產業園區用地用途"},{"start":1974.265,"end":1990.898,"text":"國家發展基金監管機制涉及的部會包括經濟部國家發展委員會財政部等請說明如下第一產業投資租稅優惠及對外投資管理機制委員所提案放寬設備投資遞減上限及增訂AI"},{"start":1994.02,"end":2009.45,"text":"節能設減碳項目修正對外投資管理規定及放寬投資新創事業租稅優惠適用要件等已經在經過本部114年修法的時候納入修正至於進一步要放寬新創事業"},{"start":2011.011,"end":2029.263,"text":"設立年限至8年考量與本部具創新能力之新創事業認定原則所定的設立年限一致可以支持令下修投資新創比例提高個人所得額減除上限增訂盈利事業投資新創租稅優惠並購"},{"start":2031.798,"end":2046.577,"text":"新創事業納入研發投資底線等有助於促進新創事業發展及鼓勵產業進行外部創新但仍以考量整體國家的財政的稅收第二產業園區用地"},{"start":2048.859,"end":2069.268,"text":"用途第一委員提案產業園區社區用地所佔的面積上限由現行10%提高至15%且限制該用地不得出售供興建住宅使用恐影響產業園區生產製造主要目的及產業用地公共設施用地的產性規劃"},{"start":2070.188,"end":2089.858,"text":"第二至於產業用地未依限期完成建築使用時其閒置用地改善的期限之展延不得超過兩年並以一次為限之修正方向本部隊展延均定有申請的要件且有相關審查的辦法將由委員會進行審理第三"},{"start":2091.051,"end":2117.791,"text":"國家發展基金監管機制委員提案於產創條例新增國家發展基金作業規範徵修基金用途及不得投資情形學者專家人選由立法院審查選轉門條款限制加嚴審理會議錄影則涉及國家發展基金投資審理與管理機制之規劃屬國家發展委員會執長的事項尊重該會的意見"},{"start":2118.832,"end":2145.309,"text":"感謝各位委員及黨團關心及支持產業發展提出多項的產業創新條例的修正修正案促進產業創新應用及引導投資新創是政府的重要責任本部將持續配合產業需求及國際的趨勢適時修法以營造有利於產業發展的環境以上報告敬請各位委員指教並祝各位身體健康 萬事如意謝謝謝謝經營部何市長的報告"},{"start":2148.217,"end":2174.072,"text":"下一位請國發會主委葉主委做報告主席各位委員信進大家好陳文貴委員會邀請就審查大院委員拟據產業創新條例部分條文修正草案本會就國家發展委員會及行政院國家發展基金"},{"start":2174.692,"end":2192.192,"text":"以下簡稱國家發展基金相關部分說明如下敬請各位委員先進不定指教有關邱志偉委員等17人擬拒修正條文第10條本會原則支持鼓勵企業以投資或併購新創帶動產業升級與新創發展之方向"},{"start":2196.636,"end":2216.568,"text":"為基於租稅公平及財政穩健的橫評考量建議由目的事業主管機關進行專業評估另外高風險創新科技新創事業資格認定為求專業與政策一致建議循現有機制由目的事業主管機關評估辦理為宜"},{"start":2218.689,"end":2235.995,"text":"那有關台灣民眾黨拟據產業創新條例部分條文修正草案本次修正條本次修正提案條文基於法律未接一致性實際執行之實務考量以及法律重複規範等"},{"start":2237.375,"end":2266.775,"text":"考量那本會建議不予修正那就法律未接一致性方面國家發展基金依產業創新條例設置行政院已訂定國家發展基金收支保管及運用辦法本次修法提案第30條之1至第30條之8已定於前述規範且與現行其他非營業特種基金法制規範未接一致"},{"start":2267.596,"end":2271.994,"text":"就實際執行之實務考量方面"},{"start":2273.188,"end":2298.213,"text":"有關修正條文第30條之一管理會須對市場與產業趨勢做出具實效性的決策委員產生程序將影響企業獲得政府資金支持之實效性且降低國家發展基金投資運作的靈活性那有關修正條文第30條之五行政院專案核准細微因應多變之"},{"start":2299.913,"end":2318.598,"text":"國際經濟情勢與政策需求現行程序系由提案主管機關進行專業評估後在經行證券審核程序後核定依據一定審查密度另外就修正條文第30條之8目前管理會"},{"start":2321.747,"end":2335.319,"text":"評審會、政策評估會均有錄音及會議紀錄出席人員以採記名秘密投票,倘新增全程錄影恐導致侷限意見表達影響意見表達之自主性與專業性"},{"start":2337.461,"end":2351.485,"text":"就法律重複規範方面有關修正條文第30條之七依全序部114年12月就公務員服務法函式規定職務職階相關之認定標準以新增投資業務關係及委託經營關係原國家發展基金從業人員業以納入相關規範就公務員之限制規定及處罰"},{"start":2367.21,"end":2392.924,"text":"以有一致之標準以符合平等之原則那未來國家發展基金將能將持續精進目前相關作業規範那參著大院委員提案內容調整並兼顧面對市場變化持續調整作業規範以達國家發展基金設立的宗旨那在這裡祝委員以及大家身體健康謝謝"},{"start":2396.598,"end":2420.283,"text":"謝謝 國安會業主委報告我想這個產商條例從99年到現在已經修14次上一次修法也是我當稍微的時候我主持修法在2025的時候那為什麼一年多又有12個版本代表說這個產業環境變化很迅速所以代表說這個產商條例對各產業的發展"},{"start":2423.206,"end":2431.911,"text":"都是息息相關的一些非常密切所以這部分所有提案版本我想我們都非常尊重也希望說行政部門包括"},{"start":2433.23,"end":2454.04,"text":"經濟部 國安會特別財政部能夠瞭解產業經營環境的變化能夠在以後在日後法案審查的時候我們能夠共同修正一個更好的一個版本讓產業有更好的經營環境好現在有提案委員 宗家斌委員要做提案說明 請宗家斌委員"},{"start":2462.191,"end":2487.245,"text":"主席在場的委員先進 列席人事委會會長 官員會長 工作夥伴這次產創條例的修正本席等20位委員我們提出的修正案主要是針對39條 46條以及46條之一其中我們看到的第39條其實重點是什麼就是過去我們在產業園區的開發當中當然為了鼓勵地方政府以及產業的需求我們可以"},{"start":2488.005,"end":2510.391,"text":"就相當的公有地或類似國營事業所持有的土地進行園區的開發這開發過程當中我們也設了一個這個園區使用的土地以產業用地不得少於60%那麼公設用地不得少於20%這是原來法律就有的規範但是它當中的規定說社區用地不得超過10%"},{"start":2513.252,"end":2535.712,"text":"聽好剛剛說的是兩邊是不得少於是60不得少於是20總共就不得少於是80這80都是用在產業工廠以及呢公社但是為什麼要有社區用地呢其實我們都知道在園區的開發當中有時候園區內部會有一些居民那這時候我們希望這些居民呢在這個園區劃設的過程當中"},{"start":2537.233,"end":2556.973,"text":"能夠維持他們既有的生活環境跟情境但是在另外一個意義上來講更重要的就園區的發展過程當中應該要對園區進出的員工提供生活上便利的服務設施這個未必是我們傳統所謂的公共設施比如說大陸污水是公共設施但是又拖活動"},{"start":2557.854,"end":2578.715,"text":"算不算公共設施其實這些社區用地它的性質可以同時兼顧原來的園區跟社區雙邊共有的需求試想一個園區劃設之後它的員工可能來自於當地附近的居民他們就是就近上班又可能來自鄰近縣市的居民他們就是通勤"},{"start":2579.275,"end":2594.334,"text":"但是過往的例子也有可能是屬於境外的譬如說移工這個時候他們需要在園區內部設置住宿的宿舍這種情況之下就會用到了社區用地在考察其他國家我就考察過法蘭西亞、檳城"},{"start":2595.835,"end":2618.522,"text":"這些有的園區的性質會使用大量的移工這些移工不可能在這個園區有購置土地因此勢必有廠商來興建宿舍來容納如果不興建宿舍來容納他們勢必在社區裡面去尋找而社區裡面如果是有大量的外地的移工過去在我們的社區例子裡面就會有形成生活習慣上的摩擦"},{"start":2619.562,"end":2647.316,"text":"作息不同農民很早就睡了但是移工可能三班制譬如說移工大量使用大量的機車但是在社區裡面可能已經沒有辦法負荷那麼多的個人的交通工具因此我們考量這一點將第39條、46條、46條之一我們做了調整其中10%社區用地的提高不得高於15%至於46條、46條之一我們限定了這些社區用地的使用性質以保障園區的開發"},{"start":2648.416,"end":2672.996,"text":"可以符合我們園區產業的需求 以上說明 謝謝好 謝謝鍾教兵委員的提案說明另外還有一次有關於本次會議包括財政部所提的書面報告請委員進行參閱並刊登公報財政部有沒有要說明好 那麼客氣好 我們何必尋答"},{"start":2673.959,"end":2702.262,"text":"委員進行前原例做以下宣告 每位委員發言時間本聯席會委員5分鐘 必要時延長1分鐘非本聯席會委員4分鐘 上午10點截止發言登記首先請第一位登記委員 邱瑩瑩委員謝謝主席 我請一下這個經濟部次長經濟部副次長"},{"start":2711.528,"end":2725.197,"text":"市長好,市長我想在我們談產創條例之前,還是要來跟您請教一下,我們的關稅的議題,我想還是持續在國內引起各界的關注,尤其是傳統產業界。"},{"start":2727.378,"end":2745.826,"text":"那高雄的這個扣件業尤其是首當其衝這232條款對他們來講其實影響其實是非常的大這個年產值超過1500億那尤其我們外銷到美國的這個市佔率大概佔了差不多四成到五成將近五成左右"},{"start":2747.426,"end":2772.415,"text":"次長您可不可以來簡要說明一下在這樣的一個高關稅的壓力之下其實我們的高雄的課件業者他們的訂單幾乎是趨近於零面對這麼高的關稅那再加上訂單沒有政府我們一直講說政府要給予他們協助那到底這個協助是不是能夠實質的對於我們的課件業者"},{"start":2774.456,"end":2793.585,"text":"產生實質的幫助實質的效果第二我想請教接下來我想還是會有持續一連串的這樣的一個談判協商溝通協調那到底我們的扣件業有沒有納入下一次的談判的產業之一來次長"},{"start":2795.875,"end":2816.97,"text":"委員很關切這個扣建產業的這個關稅的這個問題那我想這個也是經濟部這個鞏部長也非常關心的一件事情他在今年的2月也南下跟扣建業來做座談所以當場也給扣建業做出一些承諾我們成立了一個產業競爭力輔導團"},{"start":2819.412,"end":2834.404,"text":"我們會有一個專團來協助擴建產業的一個發展那另外我們在立法院的支持之下在特別預算裡面也編了460億元從研發到市場拓銷的這個部分還有融資的協助的部分也可以來協助我們"},{"start":2835.126,"end":2844.576,"text":"擴建產業的一個就因應這樣的一個關稅的一個衝擊那至於說下一階段是不是我們跟美國談判的部分會把這樣的一個議題納進來其實現在這個剛呂同"},{"start":2851.042,"end":2862.132,"text":"這個部分是美國川普總統非常寬切的一個項目尤其鋼鐵這個產業他一直希望能夠把鋼鐵產業能夠在美國"},{"start":2867.276,"end":2891.098,"text":"能夠回流在美國投資這個鋼鐵業所以它對全球鋼銅鋁的這個部分課徵這個50%的關稅它是全球性的這個我們都理解但我要談就是說您剛剛講的這些東西其實過去也談過很多次啦我要談 我要請教的是到底有沒有實質對我們的擴建業者"},{"start":2893.686,"end":2919.011,"text":"有實質的幫助那未來的這個談到你剛講川普對於這些鋼鋁銅的在乎所以他的關稅到50那其實川普是一個變動性蠻大的人所以未來我要談就是說我們在接下來的談判有可能的談判裡頭有沒有把這個扣件也把它列入一個談判的重點"},{"start":2921.148,"end":2947.046,"text":"有沒有我跟委員報告一下就是說其實像這一次我們跟美國的談判的這個部分其實航太用的這些這個扣件其實它是可以有優惠的這個豁免關稅的一個豁免所以這個也是我們未來要輔導產業的一個方向就是說我們現在扣件業可能做的可能都是一般"},{"start":2949.227,"end":2961.133,"text":"這個通用的這種構建那是不是可以針對美國他們需要的這些航太甚至就是說可能他需要的這個太空或是軍用的這些構建我們來輔導這個業者來做這方面的提升"},{"start":2966.296,"end":2991.23,"text":"所以我想這個也是我們接觸到幾個在高雄的擴建業者大概影響比較小的就是像次長您剛剛講他可能是做航太的零組件的所以他的影響相對會比較小但是大部分的傳產大部分的業者其實如何協助他們做產業轉型或者是創新也是我們今天在討論這個法案或者是說我們在討論台灣的整體經濟發展的一個重點因為我看"},{"start":2994.732,"end":3002.396,"text":"我看了一下這個包括國發會對於主計總署應該是主計總署對於我們今年的2026年的經濟成長率的預估是7.71%但是整個經濟成長率整個經濟的動能亮眼之處其實都是在AI科技的這個"},{"start":3014.702,"end":3035.386,"text":"AI的這個相關的產業鏈所以做AI的人其實是很有感但是做一般的傳統產業的人其實對於我們預估的這樣的一個經濟成長率或者是說大家覺得台灣的景氣是蓬勃發展相對那個體感是冰冷的那我想我們也不能一直成立在說AI帶來的紅利但是對於傳統產業的照顧我想這個也是經濟部應該要"},{"start":3040.668,"end":3058.242,"text":"齊頭並進的地方喔所以就這一點經濟部有什麼更具體的做法嗎當然我已經講的沒錯就是說我們現在這個正享受AI的紅利啦那其實AI它所創造的機會我們也希望這一次的傳產能夠把握住這樣的一個機會"},{"start":3059.102,"end":3074.855,"text":"那其實我們有很多船廠轉型成功的案例就是說像現在這個半導體設備的檢測的設備其實這個都是很高質化的一種工具機所以這個部分如果我們的船廠能夠轉得過來的話其實這部分可以創造"},{"start":3078.578,"end":3097.757,"text":"很大的這個價值那另外現在我們在發展五大信賴產業包括我們的無人機包括我們的機器人其實這些都是擴建的機會那擴建要進入到這些領域當然必須要有一些這個創新研發他可能也必須要經過一個認證所以這個都是門檻"},{"start":3100.86,"end":3127.601,"text":"所以經濟部就是透過法人跟我們扣建業者跟工會一起來協助我們產業能不能讓它高質化然後雙手轉型這個是我們經濟部的目標謝謝這個次長那我想下禮拜我們可能在經濟部的報告裡頭還有更多的時間可以做討論但是我覺得就創新這一點就傳產尤其扣建業者的輔導這一點我希望經濟部能夠做更多一些好不好謝謝好 謝謝委員"},{"start":3128.422,"end":3135.814,"text":"好 謝謝邱營委員市長先回座消費執行委員請留書兵"},{"start":3151.88,"end":3156.765,"text":"稍等一下有PPT要放上去 那不然我們就先請國發會的葉主委 經濟部何市長"},{"start":3174.065,"end":3184.774,"text":"兩位好 產創條例的推動是為了要加速產業發展現行條例當中 民定行政院要設置國發基金來用這筆錢來投資民營事業來幫助發展"},{"start":3188.837,"end":3196.963,"text":"那國發基金呢用的是納稅人的錢那在投資企業結果呢我們看到它現在的投資的狀況呢虧損的加速呢從民國108年到111年還包括我們現在看到的113年的資料呈現出來呢虧損的加速呢比獲利的加速還多虧損加速達到50%以上當中這些企業裡面呢不只虧損還不夠誠信曾經也出現過像聯合再生的這樣的一個企業它得標之後呢卻"},{"start":3217.698,"end":3221.562,"text":"違約出售套利了2.63億就是一個違法的這件亂象就表示我們現行的依照行政院有國家發展基金收支保管及運用辦法成立的國發基金管理會它的運作是鬆散的然後傳出多次開會都沒有"},{"start":3234.775,"end":3259.901,"text":"人數不足決策品質不佳才會出現到這麼多情形這條的行政規則根本沒有辦法去守住所以我們民眾黨當然有提出來的29條跟30條的這樣的一個修訂我們主張的大家看到是國發會和國發基金的主管的管理機關要設置基金管理會也包括投資審議委員會包括做這樣的相關的審理等等的包括了這些項目等等的請問"},{"start":3261.541,"end":3280.82,"text":"包括還這個學者專家要立法院同意那旋轉門條款像建制加嚴等等的那限制用途這邊我們也蠻要先說一個部分因為你們在你們剛才的報告當中有提到這個限制的條款當中涉及到說屬於不得投資項目裡面我們其實看到是大家都一直在講到的是"},{"start":3281.781,"end":3299.741,"text":"對於不能作為企業的紓困然後也不能作為說是投資它的主要的營業項目是在中國大陸還有過去三年曾經違反到這些相關規定的這些看法等等的請李主委您回覆一下在這邊回應那個委員就是說我們國發基金從來不幫企業做紓困"},{"start":3300.382,"end":3311.319,"text":"我們只做投資所以這一點跟那個事實上有很大的差異第二個就是說假如說我們規定說只限定不能投資中國我覺得從業界那邊反應過來的話其實"},{"start":3314.457,"end":3322.744,"text":"主要項目主要項目 同時也在限制限制企業的那一個投資的規定但這個部分來講的話其實並不是那麼適合那麼硬性的規定但我們會在整個審議的過程當中在整個審議過程當中去考量這個部分那就委員提到的那一個"},{"start":3331.412,"end":3349.518,"text":"選者們條款呢經濟措施這部分我們在大院通過在那個調查委員會之後的話我們其實有採行大概九大的那個進進措施啦所以比如包括說勝選投資標的還有強化審議品質以及優化投資協議書還有修正投資事業管理分類以及增加風險預顯指標那定期檢討轉投資事業營運的狀況那透過董事會與胡同會強化投後管理"},{"start":3361.102,"end":3373.176,"text":"以及爭取設立投後管理專責部門以及精進退場機制這部分我們看到了我想要再問主委喔因為你在這個報告當中對於人事的部分旋轉門條款您特別提到是用的是就"},{"start":3376.139,"end":3395.015,"text":"公務人員服務法當中的一些含釋啊你知道含釋的意義是怎麼樣因為要求一致性可是含釋是在整個行政命令規則當中是最低層次的我們如果這次能夠修法可以把他所謂的這個旋轉門條讓他不要去跟照跟這樣的一個運作董建室的運作呢能夠是一個適用的人適合的人選的話那這個就會沒問題因為第一第一個就是說國發基金"},{"start":3400.339,"end":3419.514,"text":"也是一個非營業特種基金那我們國內有很多非營業特種基金那假如說只針對國發基金做這樣的一個限制的話其實就整個普遍性以及一致性來講的話其實不是相當的合理啦所以這表示你們全部都應該一起修訂以法為重這才是重點"},{"start":3419.974,"end":3442.945,"text":"因為第一個就是說像比如說剛剛委員有提到那個投資審議委員會這邊的話修正的版本要求就是說三分之二初期三分之二的同意但可能委員要去思考一下就是說這麼硬性的要求參與的人數以及同意的比例的話是不是反過來在想說是不是讓一些初期的委員一兩個委員有否決權"},{"start":3444.065,"end":3459.372,"text":"那這個部分來講的話可能必須要去考慮考慮就是說假如說今天只有一兩位委員反對的話那是不是這個案子就整個就翻盤掉了不管說是不是有七八位委員同意所以這個部分來講的話就整個機制設計這個部分的話我會建議委員就是說不見得就是說把那個修得越來越嚴的話其實是有利於整個案件的一個審查"},{"start":3470.237,"end":3493.282,"text":"也就是說我們在房地跟經濟中間可能要取得一個橫頻的一個角色等一下那我們就可以到深圳法律審查的時候再說那最後有一個問題要請教的是經濟部市長關於是在這個22條當中有些修法的部分因為跟67之3條嘛他並沒有就是因為沒有公佈啊因為是現在還沒有公佈吧那沒有實施生效對不對葉市長何市長"},{"start":3497.24,"end":3520.34,"text":"還沒還沒是還沒對那你們為什麼跳票了那大家最重要是因為經濟部的這邊涉及到了22條的是涉及到我們國安的這個技術要涉及到所謂經濟不利的條件那這些兩個因素裡面的最重要的是他沒有生效就沒辦法規範尤其是經濟部所提到的這個關於我們這樣關鍵的核心技術國家核心關鍵技術呢是在你們提出來的是N-1可是國"},{"start":3523.042,"end":3547.709,"text":"國科會是說出來的是N-2這樣的條件那請問一下你們再用經濟部的立場來說一下不然維持的是N-1還是N-2請說一下國家我們政府的立場跟委員報告好了我們這個在就有現有的那個產量條例裡面針對那個這個審查的機制本來就已經有了那剛委員講到N-1 N-2那個只是針對大陸"},{"start":3549.469,"end":3564.159,"text":"我們到大陸去投資的話所以我們沒有對美國設防我們還是有這樣的一個審查機制當然我們的審查機制是從整個國家的安全還有整個技術的是不是會造成產業的一個競爭力的影響"},{"start":3566.901,"end":3580.751,"text":"整體的一個部分我們會去做審查所以你才是沒有辦法肯定說對美國部分這個對中國對美國是沒有設限我們是最先進會留在台灣那現在最先進是多少技術呢是多少奈米呢"},{"start":3582.102,"end":3607.173,"text":"現在美國是4奈米跟3奈米那我們台灣已經是2奈米好 劉委員 歡迎時間到等一下 我就最後一句話因為已經確定是美國明年2027年就要施行2奈米的好 謝謝好 這部分呢 之後的問題呢也許我們就用書面的方式呈現那就謝謝各位我們要知道要保護住台灣的一個經濟上面的一個國家的核心技術關鍵是非常重要的而且民國它的技術一定要調味一定要明確好 謝謝謝謝委員好 請先回座"},{"start":3614.505,"end":3641.796,"text":"這個主席還是要先宣告一下為了會議進行的順利並兼顧每位委員發言時間的公平性避免影響下一位委員質詢的權利請質詢委員於質詢時間結束之後應該要停止發言如果繼續發言主席會一直站 一直站 一直看 一直看請各位盡量配合 下一位質詢請蔡議員"},{"start":3648.814,"end":3667.721,"text":"好 謝謝主席那我們是有請經濟部次長經濟部何市長跟國發會國發會葉主委葉主委委員好次長跟主委雖然剛剛又講到這個國發基金的投資啦那基本上"},{"start":3669.062,"end":3682.622,"text":"我們在看國發基金投資並不是每一項投資都可以叫做百分之百會投資成功如果百分之百都是投資成功的話這些國發基金的委員可能都自己出來投資了大概也沒有人想帶在國發會"},{"start":3684.805,"end":3711.313,"text":"得嘞 我要強調事實上還是很多很成功的投資國華基金目前最成功的投資大概就是那一支藥華藥吧他現在已經把他國內生產的這個血小板或者是紅血球的抗血癌賣到全世界尤其賣到美國美國現在他的一級用藥都是用這一支投資的藥這是國華基金非常成功的一個投資項目"},{"start":3712.693,"end":3724.24,"text":"謝謝委員的說明 對就是藥華藥這一支其實我們投資這一家藥廠其實已經二三十年了那這一家藥廠其實剛開始的話虧損年年剛開始也是虧損 因為它一直在會有獲利大概是這幾年的事啊可是它獲利後變成國發機 變成一隻大金庫 金雞母"},{"start":3734.465,"end":3757.099,"text":"那這個也是我們國發基金的投資的標的都是早期以及新創的一個事業所以投資事業不能說早期的虧損就直接否決掉說他的努力就直接說都沒有效很多事情這個投資還是要慢慢的累積然後累積到了技術啦什麼都成熟了自然他就會有獲益了不是嗎"},{"start":3757.679,"end":3774.793,"text":"那就我們就國發基金整體的營運績下來看的話就是說我們114年的淨值達到兩兆九千億元左右那加計累歷年的剩餘累計交庫的數額的話大概有3365億元所以比原本我們原本"},{"start":3776.134,"end":3783.017,"text":"波幅投資的金額309億來講的話整個資產成長的大概有105倍左右那105年到114年的獲利較前10年成長大概3.5倍那105年之後的投後投資的轉投資事業動總共有36家那一直到114年12月31日為止的話總共投資大概303億元左右那已經回收了大概八成"},{"start":3800.123,"end":3827.194,"text":"那持股市值的話目前市值大約是537億元左右那高於整個投資成本大概5.57倍對 就是這樣啦就是說我們不希望投資的時候這過程有弊案只要在沒有弊案的前提之下我還是認為國發基金在輔導這些新創企業就是要秉持著更開放而且更支持他們讓他們覺得在創業的初期有得到我們國發基金"},{"start":3829.215,"end":3837.018,"text":"這個非常大力給他們勇氣的一個力道這樣才是對的吧所以主委應該秉持著這樣就是說一定是要嚴防查閉不能有閉案但是要用心的大力的支持我們國家的新創產業這個態度一定要這樣接下來我來請教次長"},{"start":3850.484,"end":3864.819,"text":"就市場我之前也有在跟經濟部談過我們嘉義在設置海淡廠但是我們一直很擔心因為海淡廠咧它的未來這個海淡它的水費的計算那一直有人跟我說"},{"start":3865.7,"end":3887.768,"text":"要會把現在在做填海造陸的費用納為海淡廠的費用這件事我覺得不合理不合理的就在於說因為這個填海造陸10公頃的土地並不是百分之百作為海淡廠使用如果你把這一筆算入海淡廠的費用未來怎麼有企業敢去使用加海淡廠產生的水水費可能可能一坨水要70幾坨"},{"start":3892.707,"end":3899.445,"text":"怎麼能有誰再去敢去用啊價格的落差太大所以市場這部分的調整有順利嗎"},{"start":3901.068,"end":3917.281,"text":"跟委員報告這個部分我們會跟院裡面來申請公共建設的預算那如果爭取成功的話這個部分我們是不會納入到水價的核算確定不會納入嗎好那這個很重要那第二個我要跟次長再講一下因為我們現在經濟部在我們嘉義有兩個產業園區的開發一個是水上南進一個是中埔的公館水上南進因為在開發的過程發現有文化遺址所以他的開發進度比較慢"},{"start":3928.189,"end":3936.434,"text":"那中埔已經開發而且都在招商 招商的也順利 但是這些廠商有來跟我反應就是說水善南進最近有在做租金的調整 租金的調整之後 他們一坪會變成150塊跟我們現在馬籌後產業園區的租金是一坪120塊 這兩個的租金之間是有落差的"},{"start":3950.962,"end":3976.48,"text":"那馬酬厚基本上他是由台糖以及我們縣政府來合作來招商目前還沒有開始正式招商但是他的價格落在150塊反而我們已經有招商的中埔跟水上價格是150塊這個話會讓這些廠商覺得是有相對的一些落差的感覺所以他們認為有沒有可能這個時候可以跟馬酬厚水上南進"},{"start":3978.061,"end":4004.268,"text":"畢竟不管是台塘啦還是我們現在經濟部都一樣是經濟部管的一些企業啊有沒有可能在租金上來做一個讓他們一樣的一致呢根本報告喔那因為這個馬酬的租金的部分是那個嘉義縣政府這邊他們所這個來推案定可是還是要尊重台塘啊最後還是台塘確定啊"},{"start":4005.108,"end":4029.807,"text":"因為他的土地是台塘的我們縣政府是協力他去做招商我們現在跟縣政府這邊來了解的結果縣政府是表示說大概會等到台積電他COAS第三場來報開工跟凍土之後預計在今年的4到5月會來重新審定租金的價格"},{"start":4031.508,"end":4059.569,"text":"所以這個部分也許啦剛剛可能價格也許會再做一些調整市長也說一下好消息啦台積電扣瓦斯第三場已經正式開工了所以在這幾天也開工了這也是一個很重要的對我們家也很重要的一個訊息所以接下來在馬籌後這一個半導體的供應鏈也就是我們說馬籌後的原中原這一塊後續的招商麻煩市長再打算協力一下好不好"},{"start":4059.909,"end":4063.75,"text":"好 沒問題 拜託了 謝謝好 謝謝委員謝謝蔡議員 令人感動的資訊謝謝來 下一位質詢 請謝一鋒委員"},{"start":4085.627,"end":4100.117,"text":"謝謝主席我想要請國發會葉主委以及我們經濟部的何次長主委早請教一下到底中東衝突什麼時候結束"},{"start":4101.837,"end":4121.383,"text":"美國他說很快結束但是目前看起來並沒有這麼快結束有一些智庫報告就是說機率比較大是在四周到八周內會結束那是美國智庫嗎可是伊朗好像說不會伊朗說不可能這麼快結束"},{"start":4122.065,"end":4143.329,"text":"是不是不能單方面對對對對但智庫是是說機率比較高是在四周到八周所以現在行政院你們所推估的政策裡面以及我們現在在在中東的原物料的相關的供應你們推估都是很快結束的這個scenario是不是"},{"start":4147.927,"end":4167.859,"text":"因為整個物價的穩定行政院的政府院長他每週都會召開物價穩定小組會議我是在問說你們推估的就是說這個中東沖煮很快結束嗎四到六週結束嗎但是如果超過半年呢"},{"start":4168.94,"end":4193.585,"text":"那目前我們現在的像氦氣這是半導體的就是供應鏈裡面重要的原物料那如果中東的衝突超過半年以上那半導體的原物料像氦氣以及我那天也問過了像農業肥料的這個液態氮等到底會不會斷裂"},{"start":4198.326,"end":4203.51,"text":"跟我們報告 氦氣是不會斷鏈的因為氦氣主要的供應當然是來自卡達佔三分之一但是我們的氦氣的供應是來自於我們的這個三大氣體商就包括蓮華還有這個三福因為卡達它是最重要的就是說你在LNG生產過程當中的這個它是這個那個"},{"start":4227.869,"end":4250.255,"text":"它的氦氣的這個副產品是LNG生產的副產品那如果你不是從卡達不是從荷姆治海峽那你是從哪裡來你說最主要是美國美國是不是對所以這部分絕對是不會有斷鏈的情況所以美國會無限度的供應我們所以這個我們跟三大氣體商都已經確認過了所以美國會供應我們不會斷氣的情況"},{"start":4255.396,"end":4269.525,"text":"所以半導體的供應鏈是沒有影響的絕對沒有問題沒有影響的半年以上呢絕對沒有問題那半年以上都不會有問題嗎是所以美國有承諾你是因為我們的溢價能力很高"},{"start":4270.846,"end":4289.733,"text":"對 我們半導體的溢價能力很高所以美國有承諾就對了應該說我們三大汽體商他們跟我們的這個半導體產業其實是緊密連結的而且他是供應他是他們很大量的這個供應商所以這部分是沒有問題的"},{"start":4290.433,"end":4317.055,"text":"那我請教一下喔你說的是你們今天我們產算條例在講的是納入AI跟減碳的項目嘛那這個部分其實AI以及減碳的項目在雖然說上限是20億喔可是大部分現在我遇到的中小企業來講他們認為這都是否半導體等這種大型企業對於中小企業呢"},{"start":4317.555,"end":4337.247,"text":"你有沒有辦法協助中小企業他也許有一些傳產他甚至沒有辦法有AI的設備啊AI的伺服器啊等等的這怎麼樣處理呢是其實我們這個申請案裡面也不見得全部都是大企業啦也有許多是中小企業因為我們現在就"},{"start":4339.349,"end":4352.175,"text":"從這個修法的條例裡面當然是一視同仁嘛可是我說的是中小企業對於就是說他AI升級的需求以及減碳需求就不像是半導體產業這麼大嘛那這樣子的情況下還有他們沒有辦法馬上立即的進入AI的生產嘛所以"},{"start":4360.939,"end":4377.452,"text":"你們怎麼樣子協助他們嘛因為你怎麼樣協助他能夠適應這個AI的生產以及現在AI的生產也發生了問題嘛對不對我們也看到了AI現在生產的那個養龍蝦的效應等等的"},{"start":4380.09,"end":4401.957,"text":"不代表說AI的生產就馬上能夠適用於所有企業的生產的結構裡面我們也考慮到委員這個問題因為中老企業畢竟它的資源比較少所以我們廣布長也成立了輔導團來協助我們中老企業而且我們這次要配合461的特別預算"},{"start":4402.637,"end":4417.206,"text":"所以也鼓勵這個企業做雙手轉型他們在採購設備的部分我們可以有4成的補助那也就是說他如果採購設備的話也可以來享受我們這樣的一個投資低減對我說的就是說第一個當然你說輔導團我就說在怎麼樣子第一個啦"},{"start":4423.27,"end":4441.484,"text":"我們就是需要移轉就是除了美國以外移轉其他的那個其他的就是說出口的國但是其他出口國裡面還遇到了現在就是成長疲弱的問題因為就是因為這個對等關稅歐洲啦其他國家可能都面臨到"},{"start":4443.09,"end":4457.556,"text":"這些疲弱問題甚至中東本來有機會上漲你看中東現在又面臨到中東的衝突等等那這樣子的情況下大家怎麼轉你知道嗎現在是全球都都很難轉欸是對 那你要怎麼轉是"},{"start":4458.796,"end":4478.938,"text":"當然我們希望這個戰事能夠趕快結束現在其實很多台灣的傳產業者其實也受惠於我們政府的一些政策所以你們還是預估你們沒有預估超過半年以上的情況嗎"},{"start":4480.9,"end":4496.837,"text":"你們目前都沒有預估超過半年以上有可能就超過半年以上完全就是在川普總統的決策當然我們是要做足完全的準備你們有沒有預估我們也無從預估你們沒有半年以上的"},{"start":4502.683,"end":4522.277,"text":"預估的當然我們會用把各種我現在講的只是半導體的供應鏈那其實油啊或者是其他的有沒有肥料等等的這都會相關的影響嗎其實這個每一週我們都有針對這樣的一個物價穩定的部分在行政院副院長的這樣的一個層級來討論所以"},{"start":4525.339,"end":4542.025,"text":"也就是說這個戰事維持多久我們這個機制也就會因應這樣的一個需要會做討論所以我想這個院裡面也都有做出了準備主席再講我沒有就是我也要"},{"start":4543.045,"end":4565.974,"text":"結束我的質詢 但是我發現可能我們行政院一定要預估超過半年以上相關的原物料以及這些物價的因應的方式 我們都會準備好謝謝 謝謝委員謝謝 謝謝馮委員 時間掌握非常精準市長先回座消費資金請鄭振前委員"},{"start":4576.864,"end":4578.556,"text":"謝謝主席我想請一下經濟部和次長經濟部和次長"},{"start":4586.767,"end":4612.442,"text":"蔡委員好次長好我想說產創條例2010年實施以來一直是台灣推動產業轉型跟技術研發很重要的一個核心法案我想說我今天針對我們在產創條例按照第十之二條的一個訂定的一個執法就是有關於公司前瞻創新研究發展及先進製程設備支出適用投資抵減辦法這個裡面"},{"start":4613.863,"end":4635.541,"text":"因為我特別提到一個狀態就是研發費用如果在60億元然後在營收6%的情況之下的時候它有機會可以得到25%的高研發的一個抵減那我今天要特別講的一個狀態的情況是說因為針對這樣的一個部分立法其實非常的好"},{"start":4636.161,"end":4655.169,"text":"可是因為台灣有很多隱形冠軍他們未必是規模這麼大他們可能是中型的一個企業可是既然是隱形冠軍就表示他們其實有很多可取的地方那如果說沒有繼續投入研發的時候可能他們這個隱形冠軍以後真的就會被隱形掉了"},{"start":4655.489,"end":4675.682,"text":"就不會再是冠軍所以針對這個部分我們有沒有考慮針對這個60億元的研發費用的部分有可能可以下修讓這些台灣有很多的隱形冠軍可是規模沒有那麼大的企業也能夠適用可不可以請次長做個說明跟委員報告其實委員看到了這個條文其實業者也有跟"},{"start":4679.004,"end":4703.518,"text":"我們經濟部來反映也就是說這個要同時達到研發60億然後又同時要佔營收的6%研發經費佔6%這看起來就是說他們在試用上會有一些困難那這個部分我想我們也會跟財政部這邊再來討論一下那把這個意見在我們那個院裡面可能"},{"start":4704.605,"end":4721.934,"text":"我們希望能夠再幫業者反映這個問題我們再來做討論因為我覺得這個部分就台灣除了說有很多半導體產業很厲害之外他們很輕而易舉可以滿足這樣的一個規模可是很多隱形冠軍我們也要顧到他們好不好"},{"start":4722.947,"end":4737.579,"text":"好 那接下來就是說我們去年產創條例修正之後 我有把節能減碳跟AI的一個投資抵檢都納入這個相關規定當中可是就是很多中小企業在申請那個節能減碳這相關的一個投資抵檢"},{"start":4738.46,"end":4759.142,"text":"碰到一個認證上的一個很大的困難不管碳排查啦或者是合格設備的認定等等讓我們的政策美意打了折扣針對這個部分我想請教次長我們有沒有怎麼樣的做法能夠協助廠商得到一些跨部會的一個協助然後來簡化這些行政流程"},{"start":4760.022,"end":4776.396,"text":"根本包括其實我們產發署這邊都可以來協助廠商來做認定尤其我們有很多的法人可以透過這個輔導團可以來幫忙廠商申請各項不管是租稅優惠也好或說他要做研發補助也好我們會啟動這樣的一個機制"},{"start":4778.217,"end":4802.199,"text":"OK 那針對AI整個投資的部分李簡因為它限定在全新的硬體還有軟體技術或相關的服務可是我在想說有一些企業他們在開發AI的模型投入的一個算力的成本跟軟體的一個訂閱的費用是被排除在外的針對這個部分我們有沒有可能把它給納入變成投資的一個內容是"},{"start":4803.949,"end":4811.956,"text":"我想這個軟體的部分應該還是可以可以任列啦 算力投入也可以購買算力的部分都可以投入嗎都可以變成抵檢的一個內容嗎這個部分我們再來跟"},{"start":4824.568,"end":4849.682,"text":"另外一個部分就是因為現在國際上面針對高階人才搶人其實變得很重要那台灣因為少子化問題很嚴重所以我們怎麼樣讓人才持續能夠穩定來支持台灣那個產業發展讓它變成一個國家的一個戰略因為事實上在香港新加坡他們都有一個很特別的一個情況就是說針對那個企業如果高薪去"},{"start":4851.553,"end":4879.367,"text":"聘僱一些專業的高階人才的時候他們的高薪的支出跟那個海外延攬費用都可以進入一個租稅抵免的狀態我們台灣針對這部分好像還沒有那我們有沒有考慮把它納入然後來跟周邊的一些國家去做一個比較好的一個競爭其實我們在產創條例或中小企業發展條例裡面對研發支出的這個投資都是有投資體檢的所以它延攬這方面的人力的部分"},{"start":4879.747,"end":4898.568,"text":"研發技術我理解我是說針對一些高階人力的一個聘用跟一些海外的獵頭等等的狀態有沒有辦法把他納進我們已經有納進來了就是說他如果是屬於那個研發人力的部分他在產創條例裡面他就可以認獵是在投資抵檢的這個費用裡面好 那"},{"start":4899.308,"end":4916.375,"text":"那最後這部分的時候我想特別請教一個情況因為那個針對那個審計部其實有針對我們在法人科專的這個部分那法人科專其實坦白說我們看到過去這幾年的一個"},{"start":4918.216,"end":4932.508,"text":"質詢力情況都不錯那審計部有針對我們法輪科專之後的商業化的一個運用跟量產的一個部分進行後續的一個追蹤的一個情況那針對這個部分的時候我們"},{"start":4934.409,"end":4960.177,"text":"感覺數字上並沒有特別的漂亮針對商業化跟量產化的部分針對這個部分我們經濟部這邊有沒有更具體的做法比方說針對我們季轉之後我們目前只追蹤是一年那我們會不會有更長的一個追蹤然後針對我們季轉之後的一個商品化跟量產化能夠有更好的一個運用因為這才是我們真正做科專的一個目的"},{"start":4960.757,"end":4969.781,"text":"我可以請次長做一個簡單的回應跟委員報告其實我們技術師每年也都會去做查核也就是說剛剛委員所指出的這個問題那我們會了解一下他在產業應用的這個狀況那當然就是說如果他能夠把這樣的技術"},{"start":4978.724,"end":5006.013,"text":"來申請我們政府的這個研發的一個補助的一個計畫那當然這個就可以讓他的這個技術他能夠去落實落地能夠在應用上面針對這個部分我想說再請我們相關的單位到本辦公室做一個更詳細的一個說明因為針對這個我們科專之後科專計轉之後的一個落實我覺得其實是我們真正的目的那我們希望看到具體的一個成果好不好好的謝謝"},{"start":5007.934,"end":5009.795,"text":"主席我們請次長請經濟部何市長"},{"start":5032.618,"end":5061.476,"text":"市长我想你几次到台南我们考察的时候然后跟我们企业去做一个沟通其实我想我们现在中央有很多专案辅导也编了很多预算包括转型AI或是智慧我相信这个部分我们真的希望能够跟国际接轨可是现在是有资讯落差"},{"start":5062.659,"end":5088.127,"text":"也就是說中央的預算每一次到了南部基本上時間都過了等到他們提出案子也都來不及現在我們產發署在我們台南有我們的分署這也是我們當時候說每次北中南就把台南跳過"},{"start":5089.369,"end":5114.335,"text":"那现在我们组织重整之后台南分属有了那我们怎么利用这个台南分属结合经济部结合市政府的工业区以及我们周边民间的工业区我们把它纳进来成为一个平台所以我在10月27号的时候去年"},{"start":5115.677,"end":5132.217,"text":"我們經濟委員會到台南考察我就要求說我們經濟部要跟台南各個園區的廠協會還有市政府所管轄的工業區要有一個聯繫平台好我們現在"},{"start":5133.581,"end":5162.388,"text":"给我的资料是说在去年10月30号就已经有建立了台南劳资政共好劳资政共好情资平台的LINE群组然后加入的群组总共9个园区中央管辖的5个园区新宜 关铁 永康 安平 台南地方管辖的4个园区河顺 新籍 永康 总头寮"},{"start":5163.669,"end":5183.83,"text":"全部都進來了嗎市長全部都進來了嗎目前是有59位的成員就包括這些沒有我先講原區市長跟幹部我先講原區原區之後再講幹部原區的工業區我跟同仁確認一下好嗎都進來了嗎"},{"start":5187.898,"end":5203.893,"text":"目前是有九個園區啊我說中央管轄的是五個園區嘛地方管轄的是四個園區嘛那你把台南的整個工業區都納進來了嗎是嗎是嗎是嗎我再強調是嗎麻豆你就沒有納進來了還有"},{"start":5215.611,"end":5238.529,"text":"亞太周邊的很多民間的工業區就沒有納進來這個部分我想我們再把它納進來我們請我們的原管局這邊來馬上來討論要全部納進來好的全部納進來你才能說他的正副理事長還有幹部是不是都有納進來是"},{"start":5241.512,"end":5269.386,"text":"你這個本體都還沒有全部納進來你怎麼能夠說他所有的人員都有納進來好我們現在包括市政府相關局處還有原管理局我們的所有分局還有地區的園區服務中心這個納進來可是我們相關的有沒有直接把我們的訊息給他包括"},{"start":5270.782,"end":5297.712,"text":"我們幾個要輔導產業轉型的包括什麼我們智慧機械115年4月才開放申請還有我們的雲端解決方案點數補助計畫也是115年4月才開放申請還有AI工具庫點數補助計畫也是4月才申請"},{"start":5299.315,"end":5326.53,"text":"我們看到產業升級創新平台輔導計畫全年都可以申請還有我們的產業升級相關傳統的部分我們怎麼個案輔導研發輔導還有我們的轉型輔導等等這個目前都還可以申請有把這個資料在這個平台當中顯示出來嗎"},{"start":5328.09,"end":5350.576,"text":"跟我們報告我們現在做兩件工作第一個就是委員講的還沒有加入我們趕快把它加入第二個我會要求我們的同仁把所有我們園區廠商他可以適用的這些輔導的方案全部把它整理完之後我們就放在這樣的一個平台裡面對啊這樣子才會有成效嘛是"},{"start":5351.636,"end":5380.647,"text":"也就是說跟他講請他們這些幹部要跟園區的我們的廠商說明我們有這些計畫有這些輔導專案然後呢我們一定要專案輔導而不是用一個標準這樣太簡單了啦我們的輔導單位你要針對每一個需求去個別協助"},{"start":5382.267,"end":5392.846,"text":"如果他只有一個樣態每一個企業他所面臨的問題是一樣的嗎?不一樣他一定要針對他們的需求性"},{"start":5394.062,"end":5413.511,"text":"所以當有工業區有提出需求你們就要要求他們去到現場個別輔導是可以嗎可以可以因為搭配我們現在的輔導團我們其實都已經有建立這樣的一個機制只是這訊息的傳播可能向文跟我們提醒的可能還沒有辦法把"},{"start":5414.491,"end":5428.16,"text":"這些工業區我們都把它涵蓋在裡面這個要拜託你這個如果沒有全部拉進來它的成效不會出來是的地方跟中央的資訊就沒有辦法很直接的落實是所以拜託"},{"start":5429.557,"end":5454.494,"text":"我們的經濟部辛苦一點我們既然有這麼好的協助方案我們就應該讓每一個廠商都能夠資訊透明都能夠很清楚得到中央的補助跟協助協助他們做計畫的一個申請然後怎麼寫怎麼規劃這才是最重要的再拜託 謝謝"},{"start":5460.264,"end":5460.99,"text":"下一位質詢 請鍾嘉斌委員"},{"start":5475.516,"end":5490.662,"text":"主席 再讓委員先進 列席政務局長 總管委員會長 工作夥伴 媒體記者 女士先生有請經濟部核次長 還有原區產業發展署的邱署長還有原區管理局的曾副局長產業原區管理局的曾副局長"},{"start":5495.091,"end":5514.861,"text":"市長好來我先你看一下新聞他這裡說什麼移工放煙火啦吵到被報案找到失聯移工那麼外籍移工夜夜高歌居民受不了你覺得這些新聞報導好像把移工很負面的貼標籤好像社區跟移工有這些摩擦你有沒有聽過有沒有看過這樣的新聞"},{"start":5515.481,"end":5543.172,"text":"有其實我這些照片顯現出來已經是比較管理好的地方機車排得整齊裡面的宿舍還住得還算是有序為什麼會有這些摩擦我想看其實就是文化及生活習慣還有作息造成的社區超載舉例來講園區我們開發後業者他通常不會把寶貴的土地買來蓋宿舍但是他的業界又大量的使用移工移工的話就交給仲介去處理仲介幹嘛仲介他的附近的社區"},{"start":5544.412,"end":5560.75,"text":"這些產業園區開發後周邊的社區很多都是老舊的部落有的小孩搬出去了整棟沒人住租下來怎樣租金便宜但是一旦這些人進駐之後怎樣機車進出停放因為他連搬嘛"},{"start":5561.511,"end":5588.072,"text":"大家在睡覺了他那邊進出然後呢然後他的垃圾啊因為不落地居民乖乖的七點鐘晚上垃圾菜來丟掉移工他沒有辦法所以就堆積在那裡這些其實就是說明了什麼在既有的農村社會如果在園區旁邊搬來了很多的移工他會不會造成這個衝突你覺得會不會會那怎麼解決是不是在園區裡面廠商他要蓋宿舍給他們住"},{"start":5589.13,"end":5607.673,"text":"是不是這樣你不用點頭你可以說是或不是是嗎如果廠商有能力的話對 廠商有能力要法規配合要給土地來往下看現在我們的產狀條例當中原來的規定是它有產業用地 社區用地跟公設用地公設大家想到什麼汙水處理 電力 道路"},{"start":5608.354,"end":5623.908,"text":"那什麼是社區用地就是因為產業進駐之後它的員工產生了一些需求叫社區性的需求使於住勤育樂的可以不超過10%就是因為限了這個10%所以呢造成大家覺得園區都要用來蓋廠房"},{"start":5625.149,"end":5651.133,"text":"做道路做污水沒有想到這裡面工作人的需求所以我們現在呢你看我的修正條文第一他就把這個比例提高到15但是他的使用用途限制盡量讓園區的土地不要發出售給外面的人蓋住宅也不是賣給員工盡量保持在我們的地區裡面園區裡面解決園區的居住需求你同不同意"},{"start":5652.791,"end":5666.904,"text":"當然委員提案的這個方向如果說我們在一些園區它的面積是大的話其實是有空間是的當然如果不大你這個員工的多園居住需求就要想來員工有三種"},{"start":5667.805,"end":5687.614,"text":"我產業進來了我就附近的居民招聘嘛啊這些人就是走路或騎機車嘛如果是外縣市的他就怎樣開車嘛或者這邊租房子買房子嘛那移工他就不可能在這邊買房子他一定是希望什麼住宿舍還有沒有其他的需求要滿足來我告訴你來有沒有看到這個破舊的照片"},{"start":5689.028,"end":5717.072,"text":"這是辦事之前喉洞內療宅的礦工住宅聽到礦工住宅你有感受到嗎前年的總統大選礦工住宅是不是炒飯店當時那時候開礦公司有給員工土地蓋房子嗎沒有啊員工在那裡住在那裡走後來有沒有配住土地可以蓋房子很大的問題所以園區開發前原居民被迫遷離有沒有 你知不知道有沒有你有沒有管過台堂"},{"start":5719.431,"end":5746.821,"text":"有 你知道台塘很多土地來開發園區是我告訴你 很多台塘的土地原來裡面的佔用因為台塘啊 就是廢下地啊很多是以前的人家祖先 農民在那裡做事住在廢下地裡面台塘結構後 他們沒有土地所有權後來這個土地開發成園區他們根據原條文有沒有辦法去要求配購土地來蓋住宅呢現有條文可不可以"},{"start":5747.952,"end":5758.621,"text":"現在不行 不行嘛所以要想到我們原區的開發這個條例要適用各種的情境所以像這種的原住戶的也應該在外來修董的時候納入你支不支持"},{"start":5760.539,"end":5781.144,"text":"當然這個考量納入啦是好謝謝那我們現在看現在當然就有這個機制就是說這個流射的這個用地本來就是要為了要可能有一些原始的物物但你條文裡面要把它清楚好其實呢很多人喜歡科學園區科學園區科學園區來啊周邊的土地漲啊如果我這一個住宅的我的房屋稅會提高啊"},{"start":5782.024,"end":5806.899,"text":"但是呢我的孩子想要回來跟我住買不去啦你也知道這個情況所以我們在修法的時候要考量到園區的開發不是考量到產業的產業用地的需求我再講一個例子很快的時間校內的師生跟校外的社區共用超商有沒有看過在四大陸超商呢一面對學校的師生一面對社區因為寒暑假沒有師生的時候超商經營的下去所以創造三隱是"},{"start":5807.559,"end":5833.292,"text":"類似這樣的設施就是社區用地可以用的往下看像我們屏東頭前溪產業園區那個部落沒有多餘的地可以做道路但是如果園區在擴展的時候把道路的需求內外的需求也考量進去因為我們在園區擴建的時候這考量到園區的道路滿足園區廠商的互通沒有想到園區的員工四五千個從外面進來他使用外面周邊社區的道路會不夠"},{"start":5834.392,"end":5862.495,"text":"可是園區擴充的時候會把周邊的交通東西納進去嗎?沒有我們投錢溪,我希望擴區的時候把周邊的地納進去園區做什麼?公房啊,公房我找不出,我又不去出房啊但是你公房出,站進來你可以做道路讓園工出來不用經過古堡、古石窟你現在有沒有看過這樣的想法?有有嗎?要想辦法解決好,最後呢我們就說公社應該兼具園區跟周邊社區的需求包括拖鷹、拖幼、活動中心、長照"},{"start":5863.776,"end":5890.649,"text":"這個時候納入我們的園區的開發推動才會順利最後的結論就是有一個醫療法人納產創條例來署長這個有跟你表達過了這個是不是你們帶回去研究一下因為目前的醫療財團法人受到很多的限制他們希望能納入產創條例23條之三把衛生分泌營餘列入檢測項目你們回去研究一下因為主管機關有衛福部好不好 署長可以拿回去研究嗎好 我們拿回去研究好 拜託市長把這個問題也帶回去思考一下謝謝好 謝偉"},{"start":5893.226,"end":5910.044,"text":"謝謝總教兵委員消費資源請楊瓊英委員謝謝主席 楊瓊英發言人邀請國防會主委國防會議員主委委員長"},{"start":5915.31,"end":5923.66,"text":"主要好 本期在跟你討論我們今天產業創新條例那麼主要的目的是要提供在這個"},{"start":5925.745,"end":5954.19,"text":"抵檢的部分跟租稅優惠的部分本席也提案未來會陸續併上來一起討論所以本席在這邊首先要請教產業創新條例到目前為止我們在去年的4月份主要因應社會整個一個情勢所以包括了AI包括了節能減碳的這個項目包括了生意科技"},{"start":5954.75,"end":5969.296,"text":"5G的部分那這是目前全球性的一個趨勢所以因此我們在去年4月份修改了這個部分加入了這些面向那但是在整個條件上食物上本身認為誘因並不足"},{"start":5971.757,"end":5988.269,"text":"那你如果優因不足會影響到整個企業以及民間的這個投資呢他願意要加入我們新創事業的一個意願所以呢首先我們也有同仁也提出所以本集提出的修正草案是將"},{"start":5989.17,"end":5996.553,"text":"研發以及投資體檢的比例由原現行的最高15%來提高至30%投資體檢的部分上限由30%提高到50%同時新創事業認定我們現行的是5年"},{"start":6007.797,"end":6028.166,"text":"但是有很多他在研議的時候並沒有辦法在這個5年當中可以讓他們放心所以本市認為應該要將這個年限由5年來放寬到8年那還有個人的部分提高個人投資減除的部分由現在的500萬"},{"start":6029.947,"end":6059.427,"text":"現在的500萬來提高到1000萬來符合整個產業實際上需要的一個發展需求所以在這種情況之下本席要請教主委透過提高投資低減的比例放寬新創產業它的一個年限跟提高個人的投資誘因來強化民間便宜投入到我們創新的產業的方向那請教主委你的看法"},{"start":6059.747,"end":6089.168,"text":"好謝謝委員就那個新創事業認定年限從五年到放寬到八年這個部分我們原則上這個方向我們是支持的那為什麼你們自己為什麼會沒有版本呢本席覺得邏輯有一點奇怪啊你去年通過加注這些項目那你現行就是五年啊還好你同意本席的提案將五年的年限來你同意是八年嘛好這一個達成共識啊"},{"start":6089.608,"end":6105.734,"text":"這一個部分再跟委員說明一下就是說這一個5年到8年以及個人投資減儲還有那一個研發投資低減比例從15到30這個部分是經濟部這邊在主導所以當然我們會請經濟部對因為你是督導單位嘛好那請經濟部也一併上一同討論因為國發會你是督導單位啊而且你是負責協調聯繫各部會的啊來經濟部"},{"start":6116.638,"end":6133.964,"text":"跟委員報告現在他同意他同意五年那八年來接下來是其實這個部分我們是有共識的五年到八年這個部分剛剛談過了嘛那第二個部分就是說是不是要把他抵檢的金額15%現行的其實我們還要跟財政部討論"},{"start":6137.365,"end":6151.842,"text":"因为这个会牵涉到国家的税收的机制另外他可能还有在另外一个部分对个人的部分也有比方说像盈利事业他如果投资到新创的话他的股利是免税的"},{"start":6152.322,"end":6161.849,"text":"所以這個要整體國家稅制要考量所以這個可能要免稅現在是現行因為它的誘因不足所以我們才要提出相關所以我請各部會在回答的時候你現在現行誘因就不足你要講現行的這個方案那根本對整個事情無視於補嘛而且你在去年4月份的時候才通過嘛加注現行的這些嘛所以我請行政部門我們大家好好的真心的用"},{"start":6181.343,"end":6184.627,"text":"我們實際的這個動作來協助我們的產業才能夠讓我們立法院通過的這些法案能夠落實到位啊如果回答就是只有回答目前的狀況那根本不用修法啦除非你的條件是可以符合我們民眾的需求嘛"},{"start":6198.763,"end":6205.956,"text":"就是因為沒有辦法符合我們才要討論啊所以再請教投資體檢部分由30%提高到50%個人的部分由500萬體檢的部分升格為這個提升為1000萬 您的看法"},{"start":6213.154,"end":6229.703,"text":"這個可能要先請教一下財政部主席今天你請相關單位來對不對每一個人你沒有自己的看法主席者單位都沒有自己的看法你要請教別人"},{"start":6230.103,"end":6252.05,"text":"那這個邏輯太奇怪我們今天首次提出這樣的一個這個法案出來大家就是要共同討論啊你應該要有你的立場啊而不是我聽誰的啊不是 因為這個會牽涉到部會協調當然經濟部是支持這樣的一個提案給新創更多的優惠當然都是我的希望對 你這樣講就對了嘛這樣子我們才有辦法繼續討論嘛整體國家的這個"},{"start":6256.911,"end":6272.097,"text":"對 我們的目的我相信大家都是一致的目標也就是讓新創通過之後能夠真正的來落實尤其是節能減碳的這個部分這是全球的一個方向嘛 對不對所以你的方向是同意的嘛國發會剛剛連線也同意嘛 好"},{"start":6275.518,"end":6302.391,"text":"那我们希望到时候我们在讨论的时候能够朝这个方向支持本席的这个提案真正协助我们新创的产业那接下来本席要请教国发会国发会我们现在呢你114年度你的督导公建的部分是8137亿那我们也提出了说这会115年会是未来18年来公建最多的会最多的"},{"start":6302.771,"end":6322.912,"text":"今年都會最多但是我們看到也就是說在整體的一個規劃裡頭基礎生活的這個條件尤其這個戰爭的因素有沒有納進去因為光光塑膠物料原料原則上現在就已經很多的廠商不敢報價"},{"start":6324.013,"end":6343.414,"text":"也不知道未來要怎麼樣所以在這個情況之下在各個因子一直浮現的時候那你們要怎麼樣去將民生物價因為產業攻擊的攻擊鏈跟外部風險不可抗的一個因素不斷的在提升那你要怎麼應對因為"},{"start":6345.436,"end":6368.551,"text":"在行政院裡頭的物價這個小組裡頭 穩定小組你是最重要的幕僚跟協調機構來請他回答一下 謝謝這部分的話就是政府院長現在都每一個禮拜他都會開那個臨時物價那一個匯報那也會針對幾個很重要的民生 17項民生物品會進行監控 對"},{"start":6371.053,"end":6390.999,"text":"所以這個部分一定要好好的監控因為就像昨天農委會我就要求不一定要不可以去因為這是最基層他也答應那所以本席已經跟你提出塑膠物料是源頭那已經開始了而且是石化的下游這個非常重要一定要嚴格的去監控穩定物價謝謝 謝謝委員消費諮詢委員請洪義祥委員"},{"start":6411.892,"end":6412.716,"text":"我請國發會業主委請國發會業主委委員好"},{"start":6417.881,"end":6443.229,"text":"好我在之前的提案說明已經說過我們本黨團的這個提案的一個修正參考但我想先跟你小小的抱怨因為我看一下這個開會通知的話列席單位準備相關書面200份資料會議前一日送達本會並將資料競送本會委員研究室所以我是昨天晚上11點59分收到"},{"start":6445.45,"end":6467.284,"text":"你害我昨天看到兩點然後再寫comment然後今天早上我要五六點起來這個這樣不好尤其我們是聯席然後都是我們經濟委員會的很多不管我們的召集員對不對提的這些的案子我覺得你們這個速度而且之前又有先行溝通蔡"},{"start":6468.427,"end":6496.06,"text":"那我花了時間把你們的書面報告看完其實我都是很務實的討論但是我看完之後發現四個字本席深感遺憾就是好像我們提出來的東西你們都有很多不想做而不願意改的心態所以我稍微把這件事情為什麼會這樣子來做跟你說明一下"},{"start":6497.416,"end":6525.855,"text":"那我覺得我有資格來講這個這個國發基金的一個創意條約原因是我有擔任過對不對你們天使基金的投資的技術類的審查委員那我看完這樣子的一個過去這個監察院的報告跟這些其實我發現我們審小案子一億兩億以下的搞不好還比你們審這個二三十億的還要嚴謹我還要寫同意不同意的這一個書面意見而且還要具名的"},{"start":6526.696,"end":6555.976,"text":"好那沒關係我的意思是說這個是我們人民的納稅錢因為2.1兆真的是很大也超過一般我們很多大書書部會的年度的總預算所以我覺得這個地方如果根據你們的回答就是說這個東西我們已經像你們第4頁他說按照中央標準法第7條規定我就不念了這個收支管理運用辦法立即送立法院以達委員監督之效"},{"start":6556.896,"end":6582.988,"text":"所以這個感覺好像說萬一像盧新東被聯合再生那因為我有送到立法院委員監督了那好像就是在這樣的地段發生是立法院的責任就這個部分跟委員分享一下就是說我們國發基金雖然資產有大概兩三兆左右但是我們其實並沒有進行所謂的很常進出股是因為我們"},{"start":6583.488,"end":6610.884,"text":"基本上還是站在整個國家的產業發展上面來持有這個所以就譬如說像台積電的話我們也基本上不會激進因為我的原則很簡單我跟你理性高峰談就是說因為它是2.1兆非常巨額所以我是覺得說如果你只是用一個單純的作業辦法然後有這些東西算到多少錢我覺得不夠把它提到位階這是我們的一個立場這樣子讓你理解一下"},{"start":6611.806,"end":6639.751,"text":"然後再來的話呢接下來都不是我講的都是監察院的報告那他列出的這些的缺失其實作為我們這一次本黨團修法的一些的依據比如說我們看一下這幾個包含盧鑫案、保德人員、聯合再生、東北等等那監察院說的比如說你在這個盧鑫案裡頭未依決意詳易調查憑藉被收購之9D集團人準與願收付款"},{"start":6640.211,"end":6649.641,"text":"又忽視外聘專家學者警示意見令該基金委託資產聯合會計事務所以禁止的調查揭露東北公司財務問題"},{"start":6651.4,"end":6677.69,"text":"那略有重點管理項目應採取適當因應措施但是你也沒有發現他該公司的私募基金用於償還銀行的借款等等那監察院裡頭還有一個很重要的重點就是我們的這些的政策評估投資評估審議等等的會議沒有留存錄音發言記錄且會公開透明方式進行所以將來出事的時候難以釐清這樣子的權責"},{"start":6679.071,"end":6706.779,"text":"那除了管理會有錄音之外其他都沒有所以我想這個是他寫的第三個經財院也非常強烈的說在我們這一個所謂的原產業創新轉型基金評審會委員組成的運作機制進行回歸一般直接投資的申請適用之投資評估審議委員會所以它導致原本我們比較重大的這些的政策的一個案件的時候它要三分之二的"},{"start":6707.139,"end":6723.831,"text":"出席委員同意可是因為他用這樣的方式的話他把它變成降為半數 二分之一所以我們在修法裡頭我們是希望說如果等著SOP的法制等著程序的一個公開透明我們希望能夠把這樣子的東西列進來"},{"start":6725.032,"end":6749.865,"text":"那我想最後我想要再跟各位再跟你們溝通一下的就是說我認為我們在這個討論還有一條很重要的像我們在盧興濫跟聯合再生的話其實它有很多的東西我們很害怕國發資金是有資底的這樣子的一個風險所以像盧興的話你把國發資金投入了公帑去變相補貼它海外的競爭者"},{"start":6750.925,"end":6768.264,"text":"那聯合再生在關鍵能源設施當中使用中置太陽能板的零組件所以這個是違背 對不對我們的這個政府的區中化 國產化所以我認為說在這個法條上面我們也希望把這個缺口補起來這也讓主委能夠理解"},{"start":6769.241,"end":6787.196,"text":"那當然這個所謂的你們在這個回答裡面有關於說這個第六頁法律重複規範這裡主要是因為蘇萊首案這樣子的一個關係那因為這個權事部有函述說投資約會關係委託經營關係這些已經列入規範"},{"start":6790.359,"end":6813.126,"text":"所以我也同意啦我們就把他列到這個公務員的限制規定的處罰有一個一致性的一個標準那如果你認為我們那一個投資化不符合比例原則你就拿出你們的修正的版本出來好那這個以上大概我希望能夠大家有個良心的溝通謝謝好謝謝洪義祥委員主委先回座"},{"start":6814.028,"end":6814.848,"text":"謝謝主席 請經濟部何次長"},{"start":6843.659,"end":6853.626,"text":"國營好來市長這個我們國營事業油電糖水這個財報在去年底都出來了那台電去年是有賺錢是不是有賺多少大概賺幾百億吧"},{"start":6860.659,"end":6869.627,"text":"賺幾百億喔?有沒有一個數字?739賺了739,那那個中油咧?虧了多少錢?中油虧了多少錢?虧90億那它這個累計虧損,這七年還是八年來,累計虧損是超過800億是不是?對那這個累計虧損差不多是中油的問題還是環境的問題?還是配合政府補貼的問題?"},{"start":6886.943,"end":6896.003,"text":"當然都有啦大環境有的好有的不好啊那你要幫中友講一下話到底是哪裡不好啊"},{"start":6897.216,"end":6913.361,"text":"因為國際油價的關係啦尤其最近最近是這個等一下才會討論到你之前已經累積這個去年是虧損了91億嘛他們說他們去年虧損主要是受到這一個偵測器補貼啦達到173億啦天然氣價格動漲或是緩漲啦這是他們的理由啦我不知道這個次長清不清楚"},{"start":6921.943,"end":6942.973,"text":"這兩個禮拜來 那因為我們這個有補貼 就是要那個油電就是要 電沒有啦 就是油價的話是要先動漲嘛那所以呢 這個兩週就虧損33億了 是不是對那接下來呢 這才兩週耶 那接下來如果再次再延長咧再次延長如果是一個月兩個月的話 那中油的虧損大概會多少咧"},{"start":6944.226,"end":6961.17,"text":"當然現在就是會跟著國際油價的原來油價今天又漲了啊對 所以它如果說還是有這個需要配合政策的話 我想這個中油它的虧損還是會繼續增加那你們應該有個預算嘛 不是說這個對 所以我們現在就是中油它也提出說要增資3500億嘛那也報到院裡面那院裡面現在也正在審議當中就是我們希望從中油的財務結構"},{"start":6971.092,"end":6994.22,"text":"好那兩個部分啦一個就是說有沒有算就是我要問就是說兩個禮拜虧了33億人那如果暫時延長一個月到兩個月的話中一個會虧損多少有沒有這個數字因為國際油價是變動的他會跟著這個當然也不是每天變動你要抓一個Range出來啊其實像今天油價又往上了所以他的一個就是那個1000億會不會1000億可能"},{"start":6998.531,"end":7027.427,"text":"應該不會啦 如果這個戰事我想也應該不會一千億是我喊的啦 你們應該有一個估計的一個數字啦我是說兩週33億啊是 這個可能我們會需要在估算幾種情境之下對啊 你們要去估算那個情境啊兩週33億 然後一個月的多少 50億還是100億我們再估算一下再看因為你們有提出這一個3500億的這個政治計畫嘛 對不對那是送到 要不要送到立法院來"},{"start":7028.783,"end":7049.29,"text":"要那慘了啊台電那個在野黨也不讓你們過啊雷千億就把你們刪掉了對不對那終於有這個3500億送到立法院來不過這個是因為要穩定物價我想委員台電也是穩定物價啊在野黨有沒有同意我們都支持啊在野黨有沒有同意沒有嘛3500億你覺得在野黨會讓你過嗎"},{"start":7051.392,"end":7079.905,"text":"我們還是請委員多支持啊對啊你要請在野黨委員多支持我們當然都支持啊那你有沒有看到一個新聞昨天有國台辦講他說啊統一後兩岸互聯互通滿格電力人家每一戰爭的時候都要吃台灣豆腐你有沒有注意到這一則新聞有是對那你作為一個經濟部的次長怎麼去反映這件事情回應這件事情"},{"start":7080.427,"end":7107.538,"text":"當然這個是不可能的這個是屬於認知作戰的一部分我覺得我們台灣自己能源能源的部分我們已經也做足了準備我們有安全存量而且我們也有一些因應的做法尤其這段期間我們中油的這個對一些天然氣或能源的這個調度其實都可以維持到比方說現在是4月底以前那5月的部分我們現在"},{"start":7108.078,"end":7124.749,"text":"也正在積極在調裝當中所以這個部分我想我們這個能源的部分我們一定會幫大家確保能源的供應是無虞的市長你講的認知作戰連這個東西都要認知作戰那請教一下那在每一戰爭持續期間的話那油價持續會動漲嗎"},{"start":7129.688,"end":7150.342,"text":"你說動漲嗎?當然我們有一個機制我們有雅齡最低價還有專案平穩的機制我知道所以在這兩個機制之下我想我們一定會把油價控制好不會讓我們CPI超過2%我們的目標就是對啦,我意思是說那是不是有機會再維持動漲"},{"start":7156.415,"end":7175.927,"text":"當然這個就會看到整個國際情勢的一個所以我是說每一日戰爭如果持續啦對 我們還是希望說可是接下來因為參席會都延期了嘛那至少這一個月大概我認為戰爭可能還會再持續啦所以這個月或是說不要講到下個月下個禮拜是不是就"},{"start":7177.032,"end":7202.197,"text":"還是有機會跟委員報告就因為我剛講到講到就是說這個油價的決定我們有兩個機制嘛一個是亞林最低價好那電價勒那電價的話電價是下個月會開會嗎3月有一個審議委員會那我想審議委員會討論的時候我們會把相關的資訊都會提供給審議委員來做參考當然大家也是希望電價也要能夠穩定啦就不要"},{"start":7202.757,"end":7222.904,"text":"不要漲但是這個資訊當然我們也會傳達因為是戰爭的關係我們還是希望能夠維持油電都能夠維持動漲這樣才不會影響到我們的民生經濟影響到我們一般這些小老百姓不管你是做什麼行業可能因此都會受到影響好不好把我們這個訊息傳遞出去好 謝謝市長 謝謝主席"},{"start":7228.116,"end":7254.167,"text":"謝謝林坤財委員市長先回座郭國仁郭國仁郭國仁不在偵探鄭天才委員執行完之後我們休息六分鐘下一位執行請鄭天才委員好主席有請市長經濟部的市長"},{"start":7263.268,"end":7283.395,"text":"好 社長剛才我們有委員跟我們都一樣都很關注這個從過去的俄烏戰爭到現在的美伊伊朗的戰爭確實會影響到我們的"},{"start":7289.057,"end":7300.668,"text":"石油天然氣各方面因為我們都是仰賴進口所以這個到剛發生的時候美以一戰爭剛發生的時候部長經濟部部長"},{"start":7308.956,"end":7330.468,"text":"這個的發言認為還可以當時的狀況是這樣當然現在會拖延多久不知道所以這個部分這個要避免戰爭這個是最重要的當然避免戰爭這個自我防禦當然也很重要"},{"start":7331.445,"end":7357.927,"text":"那今天談的產業創新條例很多委員有提出版本這個行政院是沒有版本怎麼樣能夠讓我們的產業創新能夠讓我們台灣的產業更好這個是一個我們基本上應該的好 剛提到這個戰爭"},{"start":7361.206,"end":7370.969,"text":"我們看這個跟我們經濟部也有關係的產業發展數我們如果看115年度的預算這個亞洲無人機新創計畫這個113到116年度總經費49億多這個115年度11億多"},{"start":7389.871,"end":7406.838,"text":"這裡面除了會議之外還有協助國內廠商開發無人機關鍵模組或相關的這些產品這裡面也有提到無人機多元應用關鍵技術開發計畫115到119這個經費都相當龐大這個包括亞創中心強化計畫"},{"start":7419.119,"end":7440.513,"text":"國防產業創新發展推動計畫這個經費總共加起來都是像以這個來講就百萬千萬億12億多了所以這個部分總共加起來金額都不小然後你們整個都列為軍工產業"},{"start":7443.769,"end":7470.755,"text":"在這樣的情形之下事實上如果我們從俄羅斯戰爭或者是這個美以伊的戰爭無人機一直是一個很重要的無人機所以我們台灣這個AI各方面半導體各方面所以我們的這個"},{"start":7474.761,"end":7500.93,"text":"相關的這些開發或是製造應該要怎麼樣能夠自主很重要如果我們看最近的報導我們好多我們連無人機的買了幾年還沒進來都有啊對不對所以這個部分這個有沒有"},{"start":7502.29,"end":7527.392,"text":"已經有很好的效果能不能說明一下跟委員報告那確實我們現在國內發展無人機這個產業那政府在嘉義以及我們的台南其實都有這個無人機的相關的研發跟這個生產的基地的這個規劃那目前來講國內當然就是像我們雷虎中強光電"},{"start":7529.013,"end":7547.12,"text":"那经纬航太等等这些业者他们其实都已经有具备整机开发的这个能力了那我们当然就是希望把这个无人机产业能够落地在台湾那现在这个以外销来讲波兰是我们第一大的市场捷克是我们第二大的市场"},{"start":7547.62,"end":7558.726,"text":"那未來我們在這個行政院也有一個同手型的一個計畫所以未來我們希望能夠在這個114年到117年能夠投入442億的經費能夠來協助國內無人機產業的一個發展現在的成果對這個房"},{"start":7579.1,"end":7605.207,"text":"对军方军用的部分到底的承受我想军用是中科院这边他们有在发展国内的所谓军用的无人机不在我们的统筹型计划里面因为你这边是军工产业我们要是军民通用你要办军方第一个我认为国内的业者能够开发能够去制造"},{"start":7606.474,"end":7624.648,"text":"當然是要去鼓勵免得我們每一次要去跟美國買現在買很難買都用光了對不對免以一戰爭都用光了對不對所以我們要自己"},{"start":7627.244,"end":7643.214,"text":"這個我們的產業我們的各方面要自主好不好這絕對是我們的方向是要加油好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝鄭建才委員這個市長先回座先來休息六分鐘"},{"start":8008.004,"end":8035.678,"text":"好 我們繼續開會 歷史官員請就座會計院長請保持宿敬好 我們繼續開會 消費資源請李燕秀委員感謝張偉 張偉我可不可以邀請經濟部財政部跟國發會的歷史官員 請經濟部副市長國會主委 負稅署副署長"},{"start":8039.807,"end":8041.948,"text":"我們今天在討論產創條例對於這個產創條例當時我們新創條例我們當時增資的目標當時是設定1500億元到最後我們現在看到只有27億所以連2%都不到"},{"start":8057.617,"end":8062.679,"text":"在我看來我覺得我們整個經濟部對於這樣的一個政策到底出現了什麼狀況我覺得在政策上應該去做一個檢討跟討論特別是這274家核定的新高風險的青壯事業到目前為止它的營運狀況營收的成長我覺得我們都要進一步的去做了解這個政策推動之後到底我們還要再去做怎麼樣的修正"},{"start":8084.505,"end":8094.67,"text":"我覺得才有意義那因為今天時間非常短我要就其他的問題來去做討論因為上次修法是在半年前5月7號才公佈不到半年的時間到底接下來要怎麼修我覺得法案要討論要調整當然不是不可以討論但是如果要再修我個人認為就要在很多層面上把它想得更細更完整到底台灣"},{"start":8109.096,"end":8116.741,"text":"我們整體政府在新創產業上我們到底應該涵蓋哪些我們就勢必要想得更仔細更完整才符合產業界的期待我們常常在說我們不能只有一個護國神山我們要創造更多的新的護國群山這個就在這個條例當中我們希望想得更完整喔那我就看到就是說在產創條例十條之一的投資的底檢的部分我們現在"},{"start":8139.717,"end":8166.317,"text":"適用的對象是公司或者是合夥的合夥事業的夥伴對不對有限合夥對的合夥部分那我就必須想強調就是說過去無論是智慧醫療或者是賴總統強調智慧醫療國家是國家重點發展的產業或者是蔡英文總統過去講的精準健康的戰略目標"},{"start":8167.858,"end":8193.42,"text":"這個對我們台灣來說生技業這也都是嘛 對不對您能夠認同好 那剛才我提到就是說我們目前產創條例使用的對象其實就是公司跟合夥的夥伴是的它並不包括包括醫療 社團法人等等對不對 醫療社團法沒有在裡面目前是這樣 對醫療 生技醫療有一些公司會研究但是在應用的部分"},{"start":8194.724,"end":8206.36,"text":"很多中小型的醫療院所他可能買一台儀器他就要花不少錢他卻沒有包含在裡面研發花了一些錢"},{"start":8207.847,"end":8216.913,"text":"但是如果沒有人要用我們在研究端我們有一些支持但在後面實際應用上我們卻沒有政府的角色在裡面這個就是我看到我們產創條例在適用的部分我覺得"},{"start":8225.259,"end":8254.371,"text":"可以是在討論的地方因為很多私立醫院他適用的就是醫療社團法人他並非是公司不是公司法裡面適用的公司所以我覺得他就沒有包含在裡面但是醫療社團法人他每天服務上千萬的國民他的投資設備的費用其實是相對非常高的我們常常在講說我們是AI政府有沒有AI政府行動立國然後包括在AI輔助的診斷醫療的部分包括我們現在都非常熟悉的達文西的手術系統"},{"start":8255.231,"end":8278.509,"text":"包括我們現在在推動的智慧醫療病房的管理等等我們現在可能看到在台灣我們可能都是我不要講初步啦就是說剛剛還在推動的過程當中我們今天看到全世界講到他在排名AI的國家第一名是美國第二名是中國大陸第三名是新加坡我們都還排在應用的部分排在第16名"},{"start":8279.95,"end":8293.322,"text":"所以我覺得在這一塊我們政府可以有更多的角色去處理所以我時間不多所以我就直接講我的訴求就是說承認條例要鼓勵百工百業導入AI跟節能減碳的部分包括AI的投資抵減那社團法人連資格他都沒有"},{"start":8298.769,"end":8323.862,"text":"我們其實可以抵稅減稅其實憑良心講也沒多少但是那就是一個政府鼓勵的角色在裡頭所以我覺得這個部分我們不能只關注供給端的減稅那個需求端的拉力政府的角色更重要所以在這一塊我非常期待經濟部跟財政部可以有具體的回應包括在醫療社團法人沒有辦法適用創投條例的投資的稅務相關的抵減"},{"start":8327.344,"end":8343.527,"text":"所以在這一塊我們有沒有機會也研議一些方案或法案跟衛福部來去做溝通啟動研議的機制設立醫療社團法人的特別法的設立把這個產業條例把它包含在裡面有沒有機會來去做討論"},{"start":8344.708,"end":8367.403,"text":"是這個部分我們會跟衛福部跟財政部大家一起來討論一下看有沒有這個機會把他納進來我覺得我期待的齁我不要這樣別人我期待的是看到我們政府的決心而不是啊這個反正我就管公司法我就把公司這些放進去但是如果政府看到就是說我們未來下一個包括我們的軟體智慧軟體生氣醫療是我們重點產業的話"},{"start":8370.865,"end":8400.203,"text":"那我們就應該把社團法人也把他放在裡面我個人認為抵檢的數目其實真的不多比起他買一台那種新的什麼達文西手術那個都新一代的什麼其實都真的是非常小但是我們他們這些人他們這些產業界或醫療端或社團法人可以看到政府的鼓勵角色在裡頭可以嗎好的謝謝您謝謝張偉謝謝李院長委員請回座下一位質詢請戴世保委員"},{"start":8408.977,"end":8412.98,"text":"謝謝主席有請經濟部的何次長其他長官如果有適合的要上來都可以來請教就幾個問題第一個現在中東的帳戶都未洗以現在加拿大產業都很辛苦了"},{"start":8432.697,"end":8458.845,"text":"那現在來講的話我們現在中油是怎麼樣所以說這個只要一漲價我們全部吸收是不是這個政策已經定了吸收到什麼程度跟委員報告我們現在有一個機制就是亞林最低價再加上專案平穩的機制這樣算出來的這個價格之後如果有調漲的話政府至少吸收六成"},{"start":8459.945,"end":8470.492,"text":"這樣的一個機制在你這個就聽不清楚了你告訴我幾塊錢以上政府吸收多少幾塊錢以上吸收多少對 所以因為這個價格價格是浮動的它那個中油它它有一個禮拜的這樣的一個就國際油價的一個機制就是那個公司有包括那個像北海布蘭特原油啦"},{"start":8488.522,"end":8495.665,"text":"還有一些像杜拜等等這些它是綜合起來去核算那個油價所以現在還是變動當中的是"},{"start":8506.289,"end":8509.393,"text":"現在很難去估算說這個禮拜大概是會漲或漲到多少錢上個禮拜是沒有漲但是終有吸收大概9塊10塊的這樣的一個金額"},{"start":8526.38,"end":8554.339,"text":"一公升前幾天我們在別國委員會已經有聽到你們講了 向完長官講了所以中午現在吸收了33億對 兩個禮拜兩個禮拜吸收33億如果按照這個tempo來等於一個禮拜吸收16億左右是不是這個樣子第二個禮拜吸收比較多啦第一個禮拜因為那個油價還沒有大浮漲好 第二個禮拜吸收多少好像是不是20幾"},{"start":8557.952,"end":8577.963,"text":"20億啦20億啦所以平均如果現在油價一直在高檔賞味數所以我們大概一個禮拜就要20億所以如果打現在說要打什麼4個禮拜那是不值可能打到9月現在3月打到9月還有半年的時間乘以4大概20幾個禮拜20個禮拜好了那就是400億了"},{"start":8583.204,"end":8587.592,"text":"差不多這個譜喔 是不是這樣子算我這樣講 我這個邏輯對不對 金文麗對不對當然就是國際有家我這樣講對不對啦 金文麗"},{"start":8592.601,"end":8616.411,"text":"當然這是概估啦這是一個情境啦你們這樣講不離譜的概估啦我這樣講對吧所以如果再打半年就中友就要再吸收400億啊中友現在是多少錢啊所以我們現在那個中友提了一個增資計畫3500億送到行政院那行政院如果有核定的話我們還送到立法院所以還是全民買單嘛"},{"start":8618.352,"end":8640.249,"text":"現在來看的話 我們就看一個東西啦就像 除了這個之外 請問關稅的部分是不是現在都停擺了ART都沒有了 對吧現在我們在等那個美國的通知美國的啊 等於都沒有嘛通的等於沒有嘛但是 但是汽車的進口 零關稅這是不是確定了"},{"start":8641.571,"end":8658.045,"text":"這目前也都還在ART的生效ART裡面就是零關稅啊ART裡面零關稅 對吧是是是 我們現在要送到還是要送到大院這邊來我知道啦 但是就ART裡面就是零關稅嘛那就很多的業者就提到了"},{"start":8658.746,"end":8678.18,"text":"你們在不同場合要講的關鍵零組件比如說引擎啦 別墅箱啦是否也可以降為零關稅當然這個引擎不一定只有從美國來喔因為從日本來的引擎我們要零關稅從北京來的別墅箱也要零關稅這一點你們要不要提出來"},{"start":8679.325,"end":8704.845,"text":"當然我們也要跟財政部我們有給財政部這邊有一個公文我們也請他是不是可以檢討這個部分你們是不是就這樣定經濟部的立場就希望關鍵零組件這個引擎變速箱等等希望關稅降回零你有沒有對財政部提出這樣的訴求 有沒有"},{"start":8705.97,"end":8712.913,"text":"我們有發文 因為這個是公會這邊提出來的建議經過你們的評論是結束了對不對總共幾項 關鍵你裡面幾項幾項 幾項是不是委員我們會後再給你拿好 會後再給我可以但是我要提醒你一點別忘了"},{"start":8730.103,"end":8749.899,"text":"不要忘了這個汽車 台灣的汽車廠跟台灣的零組件業總共幾十萬人喔是三十萬人吧 對不對如果把上下游啦 這全部都加起來啦從業大概八萬 八萬九萬左右上下游加起來三十萬嗎 對三十萬人都生計啊"},{"start":8750.953,"end":8764.782,"text":"對不對 如果零關稅這些幾乎都垮了吧主啊請問你啊 我請問如果零關稅沒有任何因應的措施這些廠是不是幾乎都要關門對不對我這樣講對不對是 其實"},{"start":8769.025,"end":8784.986,"text":"我們這個是針對美國汽車進口的部分那當然有它的衝擊在那我現在也有一個因應的做法我們這個在特別預算也提出了我問你會不會關門啦三十幾萬人會不會沒有投入啦問你這個啦是"},{"start":8786.688,"end":8806.931,"text":"我們影響程度大概是會影響這個產值大概是1.941.94%然後那個我們也在特別預算裡面10月人口多少比較關心10月人口多少人口的部分10月人數多少就"},{"start":8808.416,"end":8828.067,"text":"目前來講這個就業人口是7.3萬但是失業人口的部分是不是會有我再提供給委員這個資料因為這個我們是有一個公示我現在手頭我希望這個資料但是我就確定你剛才所講的你已經把關鍵民主界希望關稅降為0這個數據我告訴財政部"},{"start":8831.829,"end":8845.894,"text":"每個禮拜大概補貼中油的吸收大概20億左右每個禮拜20億就這樣子好謝謝謝謝萊斯堡委員次長先回座下位質詢請李玉玲委員"},{"start":8858.114,"end":8861.442,"text":"謝謝主席請何次長經濟部何次長"},{"start":8869.278,"end":8891.975,"text":"委員好 何次長今天我們經濟委員會特別排審產創條例那這在去年雖然在去年4月的時候在立法院已經經過了審查也做了一些調整那當時最主要的就是要延長投資跟減稅的這個優惠時程那當時我們說AI的人工智慧跟這個"},{"start":8893.836,"end":8910.857,"text":"節能減碳要納入這個設備投資的抵減的這個範圍裡面但是我們看到很多AI的應用來說很多產業他不知道要怎麼樣做出轉型而且說如果不去關心的話也可能會被淘汰或者是被邊緣化所以我們現在"},{"start":8911.758,"end":8933.775,"text":"看到我們台灣目前在AI的整個趨勢裡面產業都是非常的關注那要如何去運用找不到一個切入的方向那在經濟部這邊是不是可以依據我們各產業的需求提出因地制宜的AI導入的模式來協助各產業做一個評估的效益"},{"start":8934.295,"end":8948.476,"text":"是有的我們經濟部有成立一個產業輔導團那我們會針對各個產業他在AI上的這個應用的部分我們會來有專家學者來提供有在評估嗎有有在做協助哪一個方面會比較更加急迫需要AI的導入"},{"start":8949.617,"end":8966.315,"text":"當然就是我們現在這個針對製造業的部分我們大概大概有六七十條的那個市產線可以讓這些這個產業在這邊本席就跟你提供一下如果我們以工具機的產業為例啦那AI的導入是可以幫助他們提升了這個加工的"},{"start":8972.22,"end":8977.842,"text":"精度跟自動化的檢測製程的優化所以他們也非常需要用AI的導入但是他們在整個產品的價值跟著供應鏈的競爭力下是有需要的而現在因為台美他的ART裡面有談到關稅的問題會調降到15%不疊加但是美國最高法院的裁定這個關稅對等關稅是違法的所以又改用122條款是用10%"},{"start":9001.148,"end":9013.632,"text":"而且是疊加的在當前的我們台灣工具機出口到美國的這個整個稅率這樣子看起來的話是沒有辦法跟日韓來做競爭因為日韓都在14%以下10%跟12%所以在這樣子的情況之下我們要如何來協助那個我們所需要像工具機這個產業的話他們需要導入這AI用什麼硬硬的"},{"start":9026.075,"end":9047.366,"text":"城市去做轉型或者是我們政府這邊有沒有及時的協助的辦法措施這個部分我們有跟工具機這個產業工具機這個產業其實現在也跨到比如說像這個半導體像這個航太其實也用了很多的工具機的部分所以工具機不僅是"},{"start":9048.966,"end":9061.669,"text":"現在看現在價格競爭 因為它每年的出口值已經一直下降了嘛 對 但是現在這幾個月其實工具機的這個產值有在回升啦 回升當中 因為原來原來我們是20%疊加嘛 那它現在是降到10%疊加 其實我們跟"},{"start":9069.411,"end":9074.752,"text":"臨近的競爭國日韓他們都10% 12%我們現在大概14%原來的部分我們原來20%疊加現在10%疊加我們的那個距離已經拉近了拉近當然他們日韓比我們低當然但是我們現在就產業的這個出口以長久來看的話經濟部你還是要去評估一下怎麼樣協助他們再跟日韓有個競爭力"},{"start":9093.996,"end":9094.116,"text":"不會被削減掉"},{"start":9124.356,"end":9148.342,"text":"我們大概37%的是天然氣的進口 66%的話是原油進口都來自於中東 在這種情形之下我們看到這首當其衝的應該就是中油啦中油目前的話它的虧損已經到804億了那現在本來想說今年會由虧轉盈的大概會轉小賺個80億但是剛剛有提到我們這個前這個"},{"start":9150.802,"end":9167.789,"text":"昨天我們經濟部的賴次長就講了光兩週就虧損了33億那我們看到這個虧損的情形之下我想問一下整個中原面臨的這個財政的危機那現在他今年又向我們經濟部提出了四年3500億的增資計畫那來比照台電對他們來幫忙那請問經濟部你們立場的態度是如何"},{"start":9174.732,"end":9202.8,"text":"當然我們現在已經把這個公文已經呈報給這個行政院就這個政治計畫我們會同意嗎當然我們現在是同意的我們才會轉到行政院院裡面其實現在也正在審查當中如果院裡面也支持這樣的做法的話也會送到大院這邊來做審查其實中油做一個國營事業它是扮演一個就穩定物價的這樣的一個功能所以我們中油它提出這樣的一個政治計畫也是做"},{"start":9203.28,"end":9226.337,"text":"做最後的打算 那當然也希望委員這邊能夠來支持好 給他一個協助但是我們這個採購所有的這個不管是天然氣或只是原油我們希望不要單一窗口能夠是多元化的去布局才不會有局限在一個地方那尤其我們看到大部分都是在中東地區那是不是我們有可以多元的選擇"},{"start":9227.438,"end":9248.776,"text":"那像我們在ART裡面就有提到要對美採購在2025年到2029年要增加444億的美元天然氣跟原油我們原來這個占比天然氣是11%這個原油是21%那未來我們增加444億的時候未來的占比%數是多少到達哪裡"},{"start":9249.717,"end":9272.308,"text":"你們有評估嗎跟我們報告其實我們現在就是分山流遠那中東的部分我們就盡量盡量轉移到美國澳洲這些國家這是我們的方向增加部分增加多少增加的部分可能我們要再細緻再算一下大概增加到20%本來美國大概是在10%左右天然氣增加多少"},{"start":9273.749,"end":9282.172,"text":"因為可能要等到阿拉斯加那邊 那個 好 那你估算出來給本席一個報告 好 謝謝謝謝林議員請邱志偉召委詢答謝謝主席 有請經濟部何市長 請何市長"},{"start":9301.526,"end":9327.593,"text":"國會主委然後負稅署尼副署長先請教天然氣的問題那個次長這個天然氣主要來源國是澳洲大概38%對那卡達大概25到27美國到10到11那這個最新的消息卡達全球最大的天然氣的樞紐受到攻擊嚴重損害所以我們卡達由氣源就會受到影響"},{"start":9328.686,"end":9350.451,"text":"日本也很大的比例從澳洲他們也啟動請澳洲提高供氣量澳洲是我們最大的供氣國到38%我們有沒有啟動相關的機制我們也有啟動這樣的機制請澳洲政府提高這個供氣量有沒有具體作為有的 我們就是美國跟澳洲的部分怎麼樣具體作為"},{"start":9351.931,"end":9369.776,"text":"當然就是跟我們具體的量具體的量這個誰來答覆是我請我們能源署好巴偉那目前在天然氣的一些車的部分在3到4月都不會有問題那5月份應該也我在問你說有沒有啟動要求拜託澳洲提高供氣量嗎"},{"start":9370.396,"end":9397.241,"text":"跟委員報告目前針對長約的部分像澳洲像其他的東南亞國家都有啟動來提前取貨的策略來做處理所以剛委員詢問了對於非中東國家的相關的天然氣我就問兩個國家澳洲跟美國有沒有啟動這個機制我們都有啟動這個機制提早取貨量有沒有增加有在做你那個詳細的資料在提供給我日本也這個所示在3月16號釋出石油儲量"},{"start":9399.437,"end":9414.689,"text":"日本是政府儲油加上民間儲有254天我國的石油儲量目前的狀況怎麼樣我們現在儲量大概有150幾天全部是政府儲嗎政府跟民間154天155天左右日本可以到254天我建議適度把石油儲量天數能夠增加是"},{"start":9429.276,"end":9456.344,"text":"我們會再增加那個有遠的這個成功量你要把目標算出來就是說以日本水準是255天我們才144天是不是可以增加180天你要怎麼達成這個目標請經濟部提出具體的做法好那請葉主委跟那個尼副署長這個去年傳送條例也是我當時在我的時候是修法所以為什麼一年不到還有那麼多的版本"},{"start":9457.503,"end":9481.367,"text":"要提出來針對新創企業詬病的新創底檢等等包括怎麼樣放寬新創認定包括提高個人投資底檢的限額這個在上一次修法的時候本席都已經有提案所以說上一次修法跟這次修法不一樣是上一次有願版那我們尊重行政院的版本所以大部分通過的條文內容都是以行政院版本"},{"start":9482.867,"end":9498.747,"text":"所以今天跨黨派委員共同提出我想這四項的這個重點修法重點包括第10條包括第23條之一23條之二以及有可能剛剛宗家病院所提到的包括把醫療社團法人納入廠商23條之三的部分"},{"start":9499.673,"end":9515.78,"text":"我想這個就是符合產業的期待所以我希望說這次能夠把這些新的元素把它再次的修法一步到位那我看了國安會的報告看過經濟部的報告基本上都是支持本席的提案"},{"start":9517.041,"end":9536.355,"text":"對沒有錯嘛就國發會對於鼓勵新創事業原則持正面開放的態度那經濟部的立場呢其中對於高風險的那一個你們報告我看過了嘛你們都基本上雖然有點模糊有點抽象但是支持同意這方向沒有錯嘛那經濟部呢是我們其實也都"},{"start":9536.835,"end":9554.062,"text":"只要對新創好的我們都支持但是就是我剛剛提到還是要整體國家的這個稅制還有稅收影響的考量這個你不用提這個字副稅署來提徐副署長你們報告怎麼寫你也支持啊那最後你怎麼寫"},{"start":9555.796,"end":9571.951,"text":"你的報告是跟委員報告因為去年大幅修正然後其實放寬了一些要件要看這個政策修法之後的效果怎麼樣是是是是效果如何來請教主委跟這個市長效果如何這個效果我這邊"},{"start":9574.144,"end":9600.627,"text":"因為他問你們效果要評估啊 效果是你要評估啊因為那個去年才完成修法然後是今年五月才要那為什麼還有那麼多產業界有共同的心聲也請很多的這個國會議員在這個修法上面再給予更多的支持但我說上次的修法還沒有到位嘛效果還沒有充分展現出來所以這一次才要再一次啟動修法嘛"},{"start":9601.488,"end":9616.069,"text":"所以如果這個效果是好的我想財政部也會支持嘛好那我們就按照本席的版本通過所以還是需要行政來協調一下這個"},{"start":9618.877,"end":9638.986,"text":"這次沒有院版那我看過這個跨黨派的版本大概基本上立場大概都是一致大概四個重點新創抵檢然後能電年限要增加然後這個法人跟創投的股東抵檢這個都是跨黨派共同的意見也是業界一直跟我們反映的"},{"start":9640.367,"end":9658.102,"text":"所以在沒有願滿的情況之下我們希望以跨黨派共同的條文內容我希望一步到位另外我剛剛提到的醫療社團法人的部分這個部分財政部的立場如何"},{"start":9661.108,"end":9688.441,"text":"醫療社團如果上23條之二23條之三是 報告委員這個我們是建議先由主管機關包括衛福部跟經濟部先評估是所以現在是因為這個沒有還沒有23條之三的版本如果有版本我還是會請衛福部先來表達意見那如果站在產業的發展那個次長或者諸位如果23條之二我剛剛這個宗嘉斌委員所提到把這個醫療社團法的納入產狀條例"},{"start":9692.475,"end":9718.184,"text":"國安會好了 國安會 那個主委我們會我們會會仔細的評估 那把這個部分 你要協調這個衛福部看看是不是這個可行性怎麼樣 好好謝謝下回質疑 請張家俊委員"},{"start":9728.496,"end":9732.033,"text":"主席 何市長 請經濟部何市長"},{"start":9737.413,"end":9762.651,"text":"次長我想今天大家非常關心的都是有關於去年我們在立法院通過了這個核管法之後重新讓重啟核三變成一個可能的事情那最近我看到這個台電在3月底送銷了這個核三的再營運計畫那希望說我想要請教一下次長經濟部目前對於核能重啟的態度是什麼"},{"start":9764.286,"end":9777.171,"text":"當然 核能重啟要經過一個程序未來台電會送再運轉計畫到經濟部我現在想要知道經濟部目前是樂觀其成嗎 支持嗎當然我們是樂觀其成你也同意說我們現在國家是需要核能的吧"},{"start":9789.096,"end":9794.797,"text":"就是現在有這樣的一個機制我們就照這樣的機制來讓這個核三所以身為經濟部次長你不認為我們國家需要核能嗎這整個國家的運轉上我們現在經濟的發展上核能不重要嗎 重要吧其實核能的部分這個我們也一直在"},{"start":9811.101,"end":9815.543,"text":"再跟外界你不要那麼害怕啦也不要那麼小心真的我希望說既然經濟部我們已經走上這條路經濟部就要大方的承認說我們是支持核能的嘛而且現在很多歐美國家過去反核的"},{"start":9827.208,"end":9848.601,"text":"也都自己面對說時代不一樣現在的確我們就是需要核能 核能是乾淨能源那重啟核三是一個非常嚴謹的流程這個我想大家都同意那根據目前的資訊台電要先針對設備老化耐震進行自主的安全檢查然後後續還要進到核安衛來審查那本席想要請問次長最快什麼時候能夠看到核三廠的電力"},{"start":9856.306,"end":9870.671,"text":"再重新注入台灣的電網呢可能自主安全檢查要1.5年到2年啦這樣算起來呢所以20282028喔那我怎麼之前聽你們在喊2027"},{"start":9873.154,"end":9889.331,"text":"因為還要核安會審查的這個時間所以你們本來是希望2027但是又delay到2028嗎沒有delay啦就是整個程序這樣算下來那有可能加快嗎加快腳步嗎要看設備的這個狀況啦因為"},{"start":9891.153,"end":9903.488,"text":"還要經過這個當然安全是第一這個我想大家都同意就是在安全無疑的情況之下行政速度不像是行政速度拖累了整個運轉整個檢查好不好"},{"start":9906.471,"end":9929.383,"text":"我們希望說盡量的加快角度因為現在台灣的這個能源嫩性是非常的脆弱因為國際的情勢現在也很不穩定我想中東的戰火直接威脅到我們天然氣的供應鏈那台灣的這個發電比例天然氣的發電比例現在是多少"},{"start":9930.609,"end":9945.926,"text":"你們知道嗎如果以我的資料看是已經接近接近五成對不對接近五成但我們的安全存量只有短短的11天次長你知道韓國跟日本的天然氣儲備大概是多久嗎"},{"start":9947.619,"end":9966.196,"text":"好 你不知道那個韓國大概是一個月然後日本是三週所以我要知道的是說我們雖然很希望趕快重啟核能但是我也希望問一個問題就是我們的天然氣存量為什麼沒有辦法"},{"start":9967.27,"end":9988.956,"text":"增加天數呢?我們就是除潮啦所以我們都知道是除潮的問題那我們不可能今天才知道除潮的問題那兩年前三年前這麼多年所以我就是要問你新建的速度跟新建的進度你有掌握嗎?有有有我們有掌握現在狀況是怎麼樣?"},{"start":9992.207,"end":10006.298,"text":"明年我們那個法定的那個天數會安全儲量會提升到14天所以我們就是所以你們努力了這麼多年只有增加三天的儲量喔當然那個你們有沒有預估說我們要能夠"},{"start":10008.004,"end":10035.947,"text":"比照說韓國我們可以拉長到一個月那如果我們的安全儲量要拉長到一個月的話我們需要哪些基礎設施我們需要哪些投資這個經濟部難道都沒有規劃嗎這我們都有規劃有規劃那你講給我聽你們的規劃是什麼這個部分因為我手頭上沒有把這個資料帶在這裡所以現在本席就提醒你然後甚至是不是可以盡快的提出書面資料送到本席辦公室因為這個"},{"start":10037.948,"end":10044.97,"text":"是全台灣的安全耶我們怎麼會不趕快加速加碼去把它完成呢一邊重啟核能一邊要加快這個天然氣除草的增建讓我們可以更安全嘛這一點你同意嗎同意"},{"start":10056.914,"end":10074.505,"text":"當然3月底馬上又要召開電價審議委員會現在大家都在擔心電價又要漲了所以本席要請教次長這一次的成本壓力經濟部是不是還是能以照顧民生優先呢"},{"start":10075.888,"end":10080.95,"text":"我們會把委員的這個意見會帶到那個審議會我們當然就是說希望能夠物價能夠穩定那當然這個決定漲價或不漲價這個是在審議會因為這個對於很多小家庭甚至小商店小吃店影響非常的大而且我還要再一次呼籲就是說這個農業電價絕對不能漲因為農民真的是太辛苦了"},{"start":10103.118,"end":10109.981,"text":"這一點您能同意嗎當然我們會綜合考量在電價審議會裡面因為已經動漲了嘛農業電價現在是已經動漲但是是不是能夠繼續維持動漲這一點請次長一定要強烈的幫我們主張好嗎所以我會把我的意見帶給審議會好 謝謝好 謝謝謝謝張家俊委員來 次長先回座"},{"start":10127.304,"end":10128.545,"text":"好謝謝主席先請何次長請經濟部何次長"},{"start":10154.5,"end":10167.927,"text":"市長我先請教一下這個大林埔遷村其實時間已經也相當久的時間了我先問一個市長經營部有沒有信心在明年整個正式來啟動遷村讓啟動整個程序完全來進行"},{"start":10169.093,"end":10192.3,"text":"但我們的目標是這樣沒錯啦那今年我們希望能夠今年底能夠完成這個環評跟都計的作業程序對這些都完成之後明年就可以正式來遷春了嘛我們希望這個目標要全力來完成因為鄉親等待相當久的時間那所以現在的環評跟都計都在程序當中也都在經濟部的掌握當中應該沒有問題"},{"start":10193.84,"end":10216.077,"text":"好 那另外我請教一下要增購台塘的6.7公頃土地這個有沒有問題這應該沒問題啦這也沒有問題我們大概就是會跟台塘這邊來這個就是協議啦協議增購啦 對對對好 那另外我請教所謂無房無地的這個住戶的不能設宅的方案這個溝通協調什麼時候可以完成"},{"start":10217.446,"end":10224.766,"text":"這個我們有把這個意見提到院裡面那我想院會再做處理我希望這個盡快的完成好不好是"},{"start":10226.71,"end":10245.556,"text":"市長這個預定多久可以完成我覺得經濟部要有一個設定一個時間點我們是不是盡快我們請那個院裡面來出面來協助我希望一個月內把這件事情定案好嗎我們來盡量來協助朝這個方向一個月內定案好不好因為現在是很細微的一些問題而已定案就可以盡速讓鄉親們做出一個好的選擇"},{"start":10247.176,"end":10268.237,"text":"好 謝謝那再來我回到今天的我想今天的整個廠商條例裡面其實適用範圍的部分擴大經濟部應該是原則上是同意這樣的方向的因為你們的辦法裡面其實也是8年所以我想這樣的方向應該有助於我們對於新創的一個也謝謝邱委員的一個提案那其實我們來看一下數字上"},{"start":10268.817,"end":10288.155,"text":"如果是3到5年有1165家但是如果5到8年的話就有3061家會增加的將近到3倍的一個新創的量 納入我覺得對於新創是一個鼓舞啦而且新創也確實是台灣也是世界都很重視的我想這樣的方向經濟部支持嘛"},{"start":10288.695,"end":10315.533,"text":"是支持好支持那我們再來看一下其實整個所有的包括各個產業界的也都希望能夠增強企業投資新創的意願而這是最關鍵的如果我們能夠有更多政府的支持更多企業願意投入到肯定跟支持新創的能量的話那我們新創就有更多可能性那新創只要有一些能夠成功的話其實就帶動起很大的一個動能了所以我覺得這樣的投資對於台灣這樣的國家來說"},{"start":10318.975,"end":10339.917,"text":"所以我們希望在政策上有更多的放寬跟鼓勵跟支持我們的企業來投入我們的新創那國外的經濟裡面有很多像包括義大利包括法國包括南韓甚至於泰國都有用專法的方式來做一個對新創的鼓勵經濟部要朝這樣的方向來走嗎"},{"start":10341.128,"end":10359.184,"text":"我們會來做研議啦研議看能不能是在產創條例裡面還是在有一個專法產創條例當然是個專章而已啦但是我剛剛也講了幾個國家都是用專法的方式我也建議其實經濟部可以審慎評估當我們認為新創事業是一個新的重要的事業的話產業的話"},{"start":10360.405,"end":10381.529,"text":"我們用專法來顯現出我們對於新創事業的重視同時間我們也給予更大的一個肯定就像最早期的時候這個再生能源只是在能源裡面的一個專章而已但是後來我們把它立了一個新的法出來之後我們推動再生能源的力道跟態度就是不一樣所以我也希望未來新創是用專法的方向也希望進一步朝這個方向來推動好嗎"},{"start":10381.949,"end":10409.97,"text":"好我們來演繹好謝謝那另外新創其實存在著南北的差異這個也請葉主委也一起思考其實幾乎集中在台北我們看這個加數裡面台北就7000多家裡面台北就佔了4000多家新北又佔了1400多家兩者幾乎佔了最高的一個比例那中部1200多家南部大概1500多家但中部集中在台中南部就是高雄跟台南所以"},{"start":10410.33,"end":10428.867,"text":"我會強烈的還是會這我每年幾乎都要求的我也希望經濟部也希望國發會持續來推動讓怎麼樣讓新創在南部特別是中南部能夠有發展的機會這個就需要的是各位要更強力的去輔導跟協助大多數能量比較強的都是在北部"},{"start":10429.147,"end":10452.988,"text":"那如果南部的問題所以我還希望不管是你們的天使計畫你們的各種的輔導的計畫一定還是要請葉主委請何次長這邊要加強對於南部的輔導的力道南部他們不是他們不需要也不是他們扶持不起來而是他們其實需要更多的協助所以我希望在部裡的資源跟國發的資源要加重對中南部的不管是高雄台南"},{"start":10453.708,"end":10480.998,"text":"或是台中這幾個主要都會的他們本身有很強的新創能量但需要更多的支持所以我這個希望主委跟這個次長能夠加強這樣力道好嗎好不好主委要不要也說明一下好不好這幾年其實我也是在逼國發會重視這個問題那成效其實很有限主委要不要講一下怎麼來努力就這個部分跟委員報告就是說我們在114年已經有投資了大概300家的新創然後投資進也大概是43億那帶動民間"},{"start":10482.798,"end":10502.427,"text":"共同投資有178億那就高雄及南部地區在114年的投資金額跟件數來看的話高雄這個部分的話已經有投資14家的新創那金額大概來到1.74億那在南部的話有一些就有投資了30億家的新創事業那金額大概是4.4億"},{"start":10503.527,"end":10533.063,"text":"那截至在今年的2月底為止我們南部的那個辦公室協助新創的情況我們有大概辦了10場的廣宣你提這個我大概都知道但是事實上在跟北部還是有相當大的落差我想這是個事實所以我希望因為從這個表上面都很清楚看到其實北部跟南部落差相當大所以我希望給一個目標希望在下次在今年度的時候我看到至少高雄在新創這樣的能量至少達到台北的一半"},{"start":10533.563,"end":10558.184,"text":"加速至少努力到台北的一半我不敢馬上追上台北但至少有台北的一半那這樣南北之間的差距才能夠縮減好不好我希望兩位都能以這樣為目標去要求你們的團隊好不好高雄的數量達到至少台北的一半好我下次會來檢視這樣的數字啦好謝謝主委謝謝市長好謝謝委員好謝謝各位委員好像沒有到一半現在是十分之一而已十分之一"},{"start":10560.015,"end":10566.18,"text":"這個主委再加油一下南部的心臟太少好 下一位陳昌明陳昌明委員不在好好 來"},{"start":10570.151,"end":10594.12,"text":"登記發言委員除不在場之外 區議員發言完畢 我們詢問結束由委員羅志強 林德福 羅明財 陳昌明所諜 疏避質詢列入提出 刊登公報疏避質詢案未及答案部分 請相關單位一周之內以疏避答案並複製 等會委員另有要求期限者 重新鎖定本日議程詢談完畢 大家辛苦了另外這期繼續審查 我們先來散會 謝謝大家"},{"start":10609.136,"end":10609.296,"text":"好,我來給你"},{"start":10636.782,"end":10638.628,"text":"待會兒去一家店不要了"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}