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我們意識錄確定"},{"start":1683.42,"end":1686.02,"text":"請意識人員宣讀報告事項"},{"start":1686.02,"end":1687.06,"text":"報告事項"},{"start":1687.06,"end":1688.94,"text":"邀請外交部部長林佳龍"},{"start":1688.94,"end":1690.82,"text":"報告業務概況並被質詢"},{"start":1690.82,"end":1691.66,"text":"宣讀完畢"},{"start":1695.81,"end":1699.69,"text":"我們現在介紹在場的委員"},{"start":1699.69,"end":1701.1299999999999,"text":"以及與會的官員"},{"start":1701.1299999999999,"end":1703.61,"text":"首先介紹陳永康陳委員"},{"start":1704.91,"end":1706.51,"text":"羅美琳羅委員"},{"start":1708.01,"end":1710.53,"text":"以及今天出席的官員"},{"start":1710.53,"end":1713.69,"text":"外交部部長林佳龍林部長"},{"start":1714.89,"end":1718.13,"text":"亞東太平洋司林昭宏林司長"},{"start":1719.34,"end":1722.6599999999999,"text":"亞西吉非洲司嚴嘉良嚴司長"},{"start":1723.49,"end":1726.61,"text":"歐洲司李秀瑤李副司長"},{"start":1727.83,"end":1731.6699999999998,"text":"拉美吉加勒比海斯韓志正韓司長"},{"start":1732.64,"end":1735.3200000000002,"text":"北美司焦國佑焦副司長"},{"start":1736.22,"end":1739.1000000000001,"text":"條約法律司李憲章理事長"},{"start":1740.23,"end":1744.91,"text":"國際組織司孫檢員孫司長"},{"start":1746.29,"end":1750.1299999999999,"text":"國際合作及經濟事務司葉志成葉司長"},{"start":1750.83,"end":1754.47,"text":"國際傳播司張秀蓁張司長"},{"start":1755.86,"end":1759.2199999999998,"text":"研究設計會科量"},{"start":1759.84,"end":1760.8799999999999,"text":"科量銳"},{"start":1761.31,"end":1762.35,"text":"主任"},{"start":1763.91,"end":1764.95,"text":"李彬處"},{"start":1766.54,"end":1767.58,"text":"貴志雲"},{"start":1768.53,"end":1769.57,"text":"貴公使"},{"start":1769.9,"end":1772.5400000000002,"text":"秘書處陳錦麟陳處長"},{"start":1773.61,"end":1776.6899999999998,"text":"人事處呂士一呂處長"},{"start":1777.56,"end":1780.24,"text":"政風處孔縣台孔處長"},{"start":1781.24,"end":1783.48,"text":"主計處李佩華李處長"},{"start":1784.87,"end":1788.2299999999998,"text":"資訊及電務處張家政張處長"},{"start":1789.32,"end":1793.12,"text":"公眾外交協調會蕭光偉蕭執行長"},{"start":1793.95,"end":1795.47,"text":"公眾外交協調"},{"start":1796.77,"end":1799.41,"text":"非政府組織國際事務會"},{"start":1799.41,"end":1801.33,"text":"江政委江執行長"},{"start":1803.35,"end":1806.87,"text":"台日關係協會林育慧林副秘書長"},{"start":1809.67,"end":1813.63,"text":"台灣美國事務委員會孫啟仁孫秘書長"},{"start":1814.57,"end":1816.93,"text":"外交及國際事務學院"},{"start":1816.93,"end":1818.93,"text":"黎茜儀黎副院長"},{"start":1820.37,"end":1822.9299999999998,"text":"臨時事務局鄭政勇鄭局長"},{"start":1824.82,"end":1827.94,"text":"財團法人國際合作發展基金會"},{"start":1827.94,"end":1829.94,"text":"史立軍史副秘書長"},{"start":1830.6,"end":1834.7199999999998,"text":"財團法人臺灣民主基金會廖達琪廖執行長"},{"start":1835.92,"end":1838.88,"text":"財團法人太平洋經濟合作理事會"},{"start":1838.88,"end":1841,"text":"中華民國委員會"},{"start":1841,"end":1842.8000000000002,"text":"許俊斌許秘書長"},{"start":1847.46,"end":1850.26,"text":"本日會議邀請外交部部長林佳龍"},{"start":1850.26,"end":1852.26,"text":"報告業務概況並被質詢"},{"start":1852.26,"end":1854.26,"text":"現在請林部長上台報告"},{"start":1863.62,"end":1866.6599999999999,"text":"主席各位委員各位女士先生大家早安"},{"start":1867.73,"end":1869.73,"text":"感謝貴委員會邀請本人"},{"start":1869.73,"end":1873.73,"text":"前來進行外交業務報告並被質詢"},{"start":1873.73,"end":1876.73,"text":"書面報告請參閱以下就重點說明"},{"start":1877.72,"end":1881.72,"text":"自我上任669天以來"},{"start":1881.72,"end":1884.72,"text":"也見證了國際局勢的動盪"},{"start":1884.72,"end":1887.72,"text":"中國不斷打壓臺灣國際空間"},{"start":1887.72,"end":1890.72,"text":"我國面臨嚴峻的外部挑戰"},{"start":1890.72,"end":1893.72,"text":"但在國人和政府的努力之下"},{"start":1893.72,"end":1896.72,"text":"我們仍然繳出了一張"},{"start":1897.7,"end":1899.7,"text":"這上面寫亮眼"},{"start":1899.7,"end":1901.7,"text":"及格的外交成績單"},{"start":1902.51,"end":1905.51,"text":"首先我要感謝大院各位委員"},{"start":1905.51,"end":1907.51,"text":"對外交工作的支持"},{"start":1907.51,"end":1910.51,"text":"並協助推動國會外交"},{"start":1911.34,"end":1915.34,"text":"近兩年來大院委員約有300人次"},{"start":1915.34,"end":1919.34,"text":"130多團赴美日等30多國"},{"start":1919.94,"end":1920.94,"text":"拼外交"},{"start":1920.94,"end":1924.94,"text":"包括去年9月韓院長率團訪問日本"},{"start":1924.94,"end":1927.94,"text":"11月江副院長率團訪問巴拉圭"},{"start":1927.94,"end":1929.94,"text":"美國等"},{"start":1929.94,"end":1932.94,"text":"協助拓展臺灣的外交空間"},{"start":1932.94,"end":1933.94,"text":"令人欽佩"},{"start":1934.59,"end":1936.59,"text":"本年也率領外交同仁"},{"start":1936.59,"end":1939.59,"text":"兢兢業業全力推動各項工作"},{"start":1939.59,"end":1943.59,"text":"迄今總和外交已經取得了一些成果"},{"start":1943.59,"end":1944.59,"text":"其中包括"},{"start":1945.33,"end":1948.37,"text":"我們有效的固邦、龍邦"},{"start":1949.34,"end":1951.3799999999999,"text":"除了維繫12個邦交"},{"start":1952.03,"end":1953.03,"text":"外國的關係外"},{"start":1953.03,"end":1955.03,"text":"我們也正逐步落實"},{"start":1955.03,"end":1957.03,"text":"龍邦八大旗艦計畫"},{"start":1957.3799999999999,"end":1961.3799999999999,"text":"而援手外交的成果也顯著"},{"start":1961.3799999999999,"end":1963.3799999999999,"text":"外交部也在積極規劃"},{"start":1963.3799999999999,"end":1965.3799999999999,"text":"總統適當時機再度出訪"},{"start":1966.1499999999999,"end":1968.1499999999999,"text":"我們也讓世界走進臺灣"},{"start":1968.1499999999999,"end":1970.1499999999999,"text":"讓臺灣走向世界"},{"start":1971.01,"end":1973.01,"text":"自賴總統上任以來"},{"start":1973.01,"end":1977.01,"text":"外交部已經接待超過730個訪團"},{"start":1977.51,"end":1979.51,"text":"7200位外賓"},{"start":1979.51,"end":1982.51,"text":"也見證國際挺臺力量升溫"},{"start":1982.51,"end":1985.51,"text":"除了賴總統訪問太平洋三友邦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"text":"我們的外交政策"},{"start":2226.84,"end":2231.84,"text":"在總和外交的一個整體的指導之下"},{"start":2231.84,"end":2234.84,"text":"已經也達成了一些預期的成果"},{"start":2234.88,"end":2237.88,"text":"其中也有一些創新與突破之舉"},{"start":2237.88,"end":2239.88,"text":"僅簡要說明如此"},{"start":2239.88,"end":2242.88,"text":"第一 農邦計畫與協作聯隊"},{"start":2242.88,"end":2245.88,"text":"農邦計畫已經取得許多項的重要成果"},{"start":2245.88,"end":2247.88,"text":"那請參閱書面的報告"},{"start":2247.88,"end":2249.88,"text":"至於在協作聯隊方面"},{"start":2249.88,"end":2253.88,"text":"除了成立行政院經濟外交工作小組"},{"start":2253.88,"end":2255.88,"text":"進行經濟外交布局"},{"start":2255.88,"end":2258.88,"text":"外交部目前已經和經濟部等十個部會"},{"start":2258.88,"end":2260.88,"text":"建立雙部"},{"start":2261.06,"end":2262.06,"text":"長的會議機制"},{"start":2262.06,"end":2264.06,"text":"而整合各部會的支援"},{"start":2264.06,"end":2266.06,"text":"發揮team of 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2496.25,"text":"將在既有的基礎上"},{"start":2496.25,"end":2498.25,"text":"持續推進總和外交的各項工作"},{"start":2498.25,"end":2500.25,"text":"同時結合國內"},{"start":2500.25,"end":2503.25,"text":"各方力量團結國外的民主夥伴"},{"start":2503.25,"end":2505.25,"text":"捍衛自由民主價值"},{"start":2505.25,"end":2507.25,"text":"拓展國際空間"},{"start":2507.25,"end":2509.25,"text":"也為區域與全球的和平穩定"},{"start":2509.25,"end":2511.25,"text":"和繁榮做出積極的貢獻"},{"start":2511.25,"end":2513.25,"text":"最後再次感謝會員會"},{"start":2513.25,"end":2515.25,"text":"對本部的支持和協助"},{"start":2515.25,"end":2517.25,"text":"也請對本年外交部的"},{"start":2517.29,"end":2519.29,"text":"預算給予鼎力支持"},{"start":2519.29,"end":2521.29,"text":"那為最後以今年"},{"start":2521.29,"end":2523.29,"text":"馬年我們的春聯"},{"start":2523.29,"end":2525.29,"text":"馳騁寰宇"},{"start":2525.29,"end":2527.29,"text":"作為祝福期許和承諾"},{"start":2527.29,"end":2529.29,"text":"期待在新的一年"},{"start":2529.29,"end":2531.29,"text":"台灣外交會更強更好"},{"start":2531.29,"end":2533.29,"text":"與世界做朋友"},{"start":2533.29,"end":2535.29,"text":"以上敬請視角,謝謝"},{"start":2537.4,"end":2539.44,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2539.77,"end":2541.77,"text":"我們現在開始詢答"},{"start":2541.77,"end":2543.77,"text":"本會委員8加2分鐘"},{"start":2543.77,"end":2545.77,"text":"非本會委員5分鐘"},{"start":2545.77,"end":2547.77,"text":"10點30分截止發言登記"},{"start":2547.77,"end":2549.77,"text":"如有臨時提案,請於10點30分之前"},{"start":2549.77,"end":2551.77,"text":"提出11點左右處理"},{"start":2551.77,"end":2554.77,"text":"現在請陳俊宇委員上台質詢"},{"start":2567.73,"end":2569.73,"text":"好謝謝趙偉"},{"start":2569.73,"end":2571.73,"text":"我們請林部長"},{"start":2570.79,"end":2572.83,"text":"請林部長"},{"start":2577.64,"end":2579.68,"text":"部長早"},{"start":2579.18,"end":2581.22,"text":"委員早"},{"start":2609.18,"end":2611.22,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":2639.18,"end":2641.22,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":2669.18,"end":2671.22,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":2692.29,"end":2694.33,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":2722.29,"end":2724.33,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":2752.29,"end":2754.33,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":2782.29,"end":2784.33,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":2812.29,"end":2814.33,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":2842.29,"end":2844.33,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":2872.29,"end":2874.33,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":2902.29,"end":2904.33,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":2932.29,"end":2934.33,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":2962.29,"end":2964.33,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":2992.29,"end":2994.33,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3022.29,"end":3024.33,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3052.29,"end":3054.33,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3082.29,"end":3084.33,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3112.29,"end":3114.33,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3142.29,"end":3144.33,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3162.7,"end":3164.74,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3178.59,"end":3180.63,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3183.3,"end":3185.34,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3193.11,"end":3195.15,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3200.45,"end":3202.49,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3230.45,"end":3232.49,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3245.54,"end":3247.58,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":3247.01,"end":3250.05,"text":"接下來我們請羅美齡委員上台質詢"},{"start":3255.92,"end":3257.92,"text":"謝謝主席有請林部長"},{"start":3257.92,"end":3259.92,"text":"有請林部長"},{"start":3265.4,"end":3267.44,"text":"部長早安"},{"start":3295.4,"end":3297.44,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3313.37,"end":3315.41,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3343.37,"end":3345.41,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3364.05,"end":3366.09,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3394.05,"end":3396.09,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3414.96,"end":3417,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3444.96,"end":3447,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3462.09,"end":3464.13,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3492.09,"end":3494.13,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3522.09,"end":3524.13,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3552.09,"end":3554.13,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3568.45,"end":3570.49,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3598.45,"end":3600.49,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3628.45,"end":3630.49,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3632.24,"end":3634.2799999999997,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3662.24,"end":3664.2799999999997,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3692.24,"end":3694.2799999999997,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3722.24,"end":3724.2799999999997,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3752.24,"end":3754.2799999999997,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3782.24,"end":3784.2799999999997,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3812.24,"end":3814.2799999999997,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3842.24,"end":3844.2799999999997,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3872.24,"end":3874.2799999999997,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3902.24,"end":3904.2799999999997,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3932.24,"end":3934.2799999999997,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3933.95,"end":3935.99,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3963.95,"end":3965.99,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":3993.95,"end":3995.99,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":4023.95,"end":4025.99,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":4035.59,"end":4037.63,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":4037.51,"end":4041.55,"text":"接下來請黃人委員上台諮詢"},{"start":4043.15,"end":4045.19,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":4048.12,"end":4050.12,"text":"有請林部長謝謝主席"},{"start":4050.12,"end":4052.12,"text":"請林部長"},{"start":4058.59,"end":4060.63,"text":"部長好"},{"start":4088.59,"end":4090.63,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":4103.88,"end":4105.92,"text":"部長早上好"},{"start":4105.07,"end":4107.11,"text":"這個正式在"},{"start":4108.12,"end":4113.16,"text":"2月28號開始政府協助第一批中東地區僑胞"},{"start":4114.7699999999995,"end":4117.7699999999995,"text":"這個回台用了多少的時間"},{"start":4117.7699999999995,"end":4119.7699999999995,"text":"第一批回台的人數大概多少"},{"start":4121.32,"end":4126.32,"text":"報告委員這當然我們統計到2400多人有協助的"},{"start":4126.32,"end":4130.32,"text":"其中有一些是在地僑民或台商或學生"},{"start":4130.32,"end":4134.32,"text":"另外有一些是因為轉機過境的旅客"},{"start":4134.32,"end":4137.32,"text":"前面那個部分我們都聯繫的很好"},{"start":4137.32,"end":4140.32,"text":"第一時間我們都有建立通訊的"},{"start":4140.32,"end":4143.32,"text":"那個時間多少大概你們那個時間"},{"start":4143.32,"end":4146.32,"text":"我們幾乎在因為中東的戰事發生也不是今天"},{"start":4146.32,"end":4149.32,"text":"所以我們大概所有的這些外館"},{"start":4149.36,"end":4153.36,"text":"我們總共有8個相關的管處在這個地方"},{"start":4153.36,"end":4155.36,"text":"我們都有一個群組也密切聯繫"},{"start":4155.36,"end":4159.36,"text":"所以第一時間就已經都會跟這個僑民"},{"start":4159.36,"end":4163.36,"text":"我說在地的這些台灣人保持聯繫"},{"start":4163.36,"end":4165.36,"text":"他們也會回報"},{"start":4165.36,"end":4168.36,"text":"至於說後面出去旅遊回來"},{"start":4168.36,"end":4172.36,"text":"或是這一些當然我們涉及到交通部跟觀光署"},{"start":4172.36,"end":4174.36,"text":"對旅行社這邊的聯繫"},{"start":4174.36,"end":4176.36,"text":"那我們再做會診"},{"start":4176.36,"end":4178.36,"text":"部長為什麼要問這些問題"},{"start":4178.4,"end":4181.4,"text":"因為我們在撤僑的過程"},{"start":4181.4,"end":4185.4,"text":"因為常常會發生中東的一些戰事的問題"},{"start":4185.4,"end":4186.4,"text":"太多了"},{"start":4186.4,"end":4191.4,"text":"有很多我們台灣國人在這個僑外裡面"},{"start":4191.4,"end":4193.4,"text":"萬一發生要他回台的時候"},{"start":4193.4,"end":4196.4,"text":"你們外交部的扮演的角色非常的重要"},{"start":4196.4,"end":4200.4,"text":"所以在第一時間在應變中心"},{"start":4200.4,"end":4203.4,"text":"在陰陰的這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":4203.4,"end":4204.4,"text":"我們要很清楚"},{"start":4204.44,"end":4208.44,"text":"大概我們在應變陰陰的時間裡面"},{"start":4208.44,"end":4210.44,"text":"大概有多少的時間"},{"start":4210.44,"end":4212.44,"text":"所以這個時候我要問你的問題"},{"start":4212.44,"end":4214.44,"text":"我剛剛同仁有進一步說明"},{"start":4214.44,"end":4216.44,"text":"從3月1號開始"},{"start":4216.44,"end":4219.44,"text":"從陸陸然後另外後續陸續的"},{"start":4219.44,"end":4222.44,"text":"包括從以色列到阿聯酋都有"},{"start":4222.44,"end":4224.44,"text":"對好"},{"start":4224.44,"end":4227.44,"text":"那所以這個就是我們外交部"},{"start":4227.44,"end":4231.44,"text":"當然外交部扮演的這個角色非常的重要"},{"start":4231.48,"end":4235.48,"text":"但是我們也應該不能孤軍的來奮戰"},{"start":4235.48,"end":4239.48,"text":"外交部孤軍的來奮戰也要其他的部會"},{"start":4239.48,"end":4242.48,"text":"相同的大家一起來協助"},{"start":4242.48,"end":4245.48,"text":"外交部在駐外的這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":4245.48,"end":4249.48,"text":"來幫忙這些僑胞能夠撤僑"},{"start":4249.48,"end":4252.48,"text":"因為以下待會我要講的就是"},{"start":4252.48,"end":4256.48,"text":"因為撤僑的考驗不只是外館臨時應變的能力"},{"start":4256.48,"end":4260.48,"text":"也是對制度熟練程度的一個檢視"},{"start":4260.5199999999995,"end":4263.5199999999995,"text":"理論上外館都會有緊急應變的計畫"},{"start":4263.5199999999995,"end":4268.5199999999995,"text":"那為了遭遇緊急事件能夠依計畫安排"},{"start":4268.5199999999995,"end":4270.5199999999995,"text":"那平時還要做到什麼"},{"start":4270.5199999999995,"end":4273.5199999999995,"text":"要定期更新僑胞的名冊"},{"start":4273.5199999999995,"end":4276.5199999999995,"text":"和建立聯絡網"},{"start":4276.5199999999995,"end":4280.5199999999995,"text":"所以相信這些外交部都有在做"},{"start":4280.5199999999995,"end":4282.5199999999995,"text":"只是做了多少考量"},{"start":4282.5199999999995,"end":4285.5199999999995,"text":"到許多外館人力有限"},{"start":4285.5199999999995,"end":4289.5199999999995,"text":"本席比較擔心平時是否有落實包含"},{"start":4289.56,"end":4294.56,"text":"非戰鬥人員和僑胞撤離的演練"},{"start":4294.56,"end":4297.56,"text":"這就是我擔憂的地方"},{"start":4297.56,"end":4299.56,"text":"那另外我想請問一下"},{"start":4299.56,"end":4301.56,"text":"駐外的外館"},{"start":4301.56,"end":4305.56,"text":"外館處是否每一年都有安排撤僑的演練"},{"start":4305.56,"end":4307.56,"text":"那頻率是多少"},{"start":4309.39,"end":4310.43,"text":"頻率是多少"},{"start":4310.99,"end":4312.03,"text":"部長"},{"start":4324.38,"end":4327.38,"text":"每個地方的情況要跟他戰爭的情形"},{"start":4327.38,"end":4328.38,"text":"像以色列"},{"start":4328.38,"end":4330.38,"text":"沒關係"},{"start":4330.38,"end":4333.38,"text":"你就把這些相關的資料"},{"start":4333.38,"end":4336.38,"text":"這個外交部提供相關的資料給我"},{"start":4336.38,"end":4337.38,"text":"好的"},{"start":4337.38,"end":4339.38,"text":"那這樣的話我就比較知道"},{"start":4339.38,"end":4341.38,"text":"你們大概多少的頻率"},{"start":4341.38,"end":4343.38,"text":"在演練的過程裡面"},{"start":4343.38,"end":4345.38,"text":"這樣我們就很清楚"},{"start":4345.38,"end":4350.38,"text":"只要是有發生任何在國際發生戰事的時候"},{"start":4350.42,"end":4355.42,"text":"我們的外交部在駐外的演練的頻率"},{"start":4355.42,"end":4359.42,"text":"大概還有在應變的能力"},{"start":4359.42,"end":4363.42,"text":"大概有沒有隨時在激動時"},{"start":4363.42,"end":4365.42,"text":"要面對著國際的情勢"},{"start":4365.42,"end":4370.42,"text":"那另外就是在過去的國際上的典範"},{"start":4370.42,"end":4372.42,"text":"典範的案例"},{"start":4372.42,"end":4376.42,"text":"例如2006年的韓國的李巴嫩撤僑的行動"},{"start":4376.46,"end":4383.46,"text":"2021年美國在阿富汗的喀布爾撤離的行動"},{"start":4383.46,"end":4387.46,"text":"2023日本在蘇丹的撤僑行動"},{"start":4387.46,"end":4390.46,"text":"所以本席發現他們有一個共同的點"},{"start":4390.46,"end":4391.46,"text":"是"},{"start":4391.46,"end":4397.46,"text":"一他們事前都經過實際的演練"},{"start":4397.46,"end":4402.46,"text":"第二都會安排由經濟或國營民航機的撤僑"},{"start":4402.5,"end":4411.5,"text":"第三將撤僑的列為國家安全層級的跨部會行動"},{"start":4411.5,"end":4416.5,"text":"這不是只有外交部的一個單一的責任"},{"start":4416.5,"end":4418.5,"text":"所以部長"},{"start":4418.5,"end":4421.5,"text":"你們有沒有整個像這樣的一個過程"},{"start":4421.5,"end":4425.5,"text":"不是只有你們外交部單一的責任"},{"start":4425.5,"end":4429.5,"text":"那是不是要尋求其他的各部會的一些協助"},{"start":4429.66,"end":4430.66,"text":"包括委員"},{"start":4430.66,"end":4435.66,"text":"行政院也有政府協助裡外國人跟僑民緊急應變的處理原則"},{"start":4435.66,"end":4439.66,"text":"也包括所謂的緊急避難作業程序"},{"start":4439.66,"end":4443.66,"text":"那我們外館也都會因地制訂定"},{"start":4443.66,"end":4445.66,"text":"包括撤僑在內的緊急應變計畫"},{"start":4445.66,"end":4447.66,"text":"滾動式的檢討修正"},{"start":4447.66,"end":4450.66,"text":"那當然每個國家的情形不太一樣"},{"start":4450.66,"end":4452.66,"text":"因為我們其實跟很多國家都沒有邦交過"},{"start":4452.66,"end":4454.66,"text":"甚至我們在當地的館處"},{"start":4454.7,"end":4460.7,"text":"有一些也不具有外交上面的特權"},{"start":4460.7,"end":4465.7,"text":"所以在處理上我們會跟我們的友盟保持密切聯繫"},{"start":4465.7,"end":4467.7,"text":"像我們看到包括這一次日本"},{"start":4467.7,"end":4470.7,"text":"他也會跟我們諮商"},{"start":4470.7,"end":4471.7,"text":"有沒有需要"},{"start":4471.7,"end":4474.7,"text":"所以這一個也是台灣比較處境特別的地方"},{"start":4474.7,"end":4477.7,"text":"至於說行政院也是有這個機制"},{"start":4477.7,"end":4480.7,"text":"跨部會我們也都在群組裡面"},{"start":4480.7,"end":4481.7,"text":"那也有開會"},{"start":4481.7,"end":4483.7,"text":"那如果要涉及撤僑"},{"start":4483.74,"end":4485.74,"text":"那也涉及到交通工具"},{"start":4485.74,"end":4487.74,"text":"那就是屬於交通部"},{"start":4487.74,"end":4488.74,"text":"那因為如果說是要旅行"},{"start":4488.74,"end":4489.74,"text":"所以他帶的旅客"},{"start":4489.74,"end":4492.74,"text":"那這個當然就涉及到觀光署"},{"start":4492.74,"end":4495.7,"text":"所以確實是除了"},{"start":4495.7,"end":4497.7,"text":"就是需求啦"},{"start":4497.7,"end":4498.74,"text":"有沒有這樣子的一個"},{"start":4498.74,"end":4499.74,"text":"我們僑民的需求"},{"start":4499.74,"end":4500.74,"text":"我們要調查了解"},{"start":4500.74,"end":4502.74,"text":"這是外交部做的很好"},{"start":4502.74,"end":4503.74,"text":"幾乎都列冊"},{"start":4503.74,"end":4505.74,"text":"每個人第一時間的狀況"},{"start":4505.74,"end":4507.74,"text":"然後就是說他們怎麼去避難"},{"start":4507.74,"end":4508.74,"text":"我們都有掌握"},{"start":4508.74,"end":4511.74,"text":"那至於說是旅客"},{"start":4511.74,"end":4512.74,"text":"因為過境啦"},{"start":4512.78,"end":4513.78,"text":"或是那個這個部分"},{"start":4513.78,"end":4514.78,"text":"我們就需要交通部"},{"start":4514.78,"end":4516.78,"text":"觀光署的參與跟協助"},{"start":4516.78,"end":4517.78,"text":"我也希望是這樣子"},{"start":4517.78,"end":4520.78,"text":"那當然本席過去訪關來觀察"},{"start":4520.78,"end":4523.78,"text":"我國過去撤僑的一個狀況"},{"start":4523.78,"end":4524.78,"text":"通常會有"},{"start":4524.78,"end":4528.78,"text":"一初期的撤僑速度太慢"},{"start":4528.78,"end":4530.78,"text":"第二非常依賴外國的協助"},{"start":4530.78,"end":4534.78,"text":"第三切伐政府其他部會的協助"},{"start":4534.78,"end":4537.78,"text":"以上第一個狀況可能"},{"start":4537.78,"end":4541.78,"text":"和切伐真實的撤僑的演練有關"},{"start":4541.82,"end":4543.82,"text":"第二情況是因應"},{"start":4543.82,"end":4546.82,"text":"因為我們我國受到"},{"start":4546.82,"end":4548.82,"text":"特殊的國際的因素的限制"},{"start":4548.82,"end":4551.82,"text":"這是一個客觀條件限制的一個無奈"},{"start":4551.82,"end":4554.82,"text":"那第三撤僑是外交部"},{"start":4554.82,"end":4556.82,"text":"部門的孤雞奮戰"},{"start":4556.82,"end":4559.82,"text":"所以其他部會的參與"},{"start":4559.82,"end":4561.82,"text":"被動和協助不足"},{"start":4561.82,"end":4564.82,"text":"甚至行政院可能都沒有"},{"start":4564.82,"end":4567.82,"text":"主動協調其他部會協助"},{"start":4567.82,"end":4570.82,"text":"所以這個就是我們的盲點在這裡"},{"start":4570.86,"end":4571.86,"text":"所以我要點出的問題"},{"start":4571.86,"end":4574.86,"text":"請部長能夠清楚"},{"start":4574.86,"end":4577.86,"text":"我們應該在跟行政院"},{"start":4577.86,"end":4579.86,"text":"加強的橫向聯繫"},{"start":4579.86,"end":4582.86,"text":"萬一有發生任何"},{"start":4582.86,"end":4584.86,"text":"在國外間撤僑的時候"},{"start":4584.86,"end":4586.86,"text":"我們外交部除了"},{"start":4586.86,"end":4588.86,"text":"第一個主動出擊"},{"start":4588.86,"end":4590.86,"text":"幫忙撤僑"},{"start":4590.86,"end":4594.86,"text":"第二一定要請行政部門"},{"start":4594.86,"end":4596.86,"text":"相關的來做一個協助"},{"start":4596.86,"end":4598.86,"text":"這樣的話外交部才不會"},{"start":4598.9,"end":4600.9,"text":"孤雞奮戰孤雞作戰"},{"start":4600.9,"end":4603.9,"text":"我們會不斷的來精進"},{"start":4603.9,"end":4605.9,"text":"特別是跟行政院也有個機制"},{"start":4605.9,"end":4607.9,"text":"我們來反應"},{"start":4607.9,"end":4609.9,"text":"委員很好的一個寶貴的觀察"},{"start":4609.9,"end":4610.9,"text":"跟指導"},{"start":4610.9,"end":4612.9,"text":"比較安心"},{"start":4612.9,"end":4614.9,"text":"那另外就是我常常聽到"},{"start":4614.9,"end":4616.9,"text":"這個駐外人員提到"},{"start":4616.9,"end":4618.9,"text":"就是這個"},{"start":4620.57,"end":4622.57,"text":"各部會協調的問題"},{"start":4622.57,"end":4623.57,"text":"顯示一個國家"},{"start":4623.57,"end":4626.57,"text":"涉及到外事務"},{"start":4626.57,"end":4629.57,"text":"主要是由外交部負責"},{"start":4629.57,"end":4631.57,"text":"但不單純是外交部的事務"},{"start":4631.57,"end":4633.57,"text":"我國的駐外單位也不只是"},{"start":4633.57,"end":4635.57,"text":"有外交部"},{"start":4635.57,"end":4638.57,"text":"例如111年1月退伍會"},{"start":4638.57,"end":4640.57,"text":"在首度派員駐美"},{"start":4640.57,"end":4644.57,"text":"強化以退伍經營組織的一個聯繫"},{"start":4644.57,"end":4646.57,"text":"經濟部國安局"},{"start":4646.57,"end":4648.57,"tex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謝謝委員"},{"start":5435.11,"end":5436.11,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":5436.11,"end":5437.11,"text":"這邊就可以了"},{"start":5438.56,"end":5439.6,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":5457.68,"end":5459.72,"text":"好 我們下面請馬文君委員質詢"},{"start":5461.93,"end":5462.97,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":5467.78,"end":5468.78,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":5468.78,"end":5469.78,"text":"麻煩請林部長"},{"start":5469.78,"end":5470.78,"text":"好 有請林部長"},{"start":5470.78,"end":5471.78,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":5477.4,"end":5478.4,"text":"部長早"},{"start":5478.4,"end":5480.4,"text":"部長 其實今天早上"},{"start":5480.4,"end":5481.4,"text":"在夜報的時候"},{"start":5481.4,"end":5482.4,"text":"我發現"},{"start":5482.4,"end":5485.4,"text":"部長做了一件很好的事情"},{"start":5485.4,"end":5487.4,"text":"因為這個已經很久"},{"start":5487.4,"end":5488.4,"text":"我們看到民進黨政府"},{"start":5488.4,"end":5490.4,"text":"都做不到的事"},{"start":5490.4,"end":5492.4,"text":"因為在夜報上面"},{"start":5492.4,"end":5493.4,"text":"寫到我們的外交"},{"start":5493.4,"end":5496.4,"text":"交出量力的成績單"},{"start":5496.4,"end":5498.4,"text":"部長大概覺得不太妥"},{"start":5498.4,"end":5499.4,"text":"所以你把它改成及格"},{"start":5499.4,"end":5500.4,"text":"其實我覺得"},{"start":5500.4,"end":5501.4,"text":"不管是外交"},{"start":5501.4,"end":5503.4,"text":"或者各項的政府推動的"},{"start":5503.4,"end":5505.4,"text":"任何政策"},{"start":5505.44,"end":5508.44,"text":"都有可能面臨困難"},{"start":5508.44,"end":5510.44,"text":"或者你有做的不夠的部分"},{"start":5510.44,"end":5512.44,"text":"不可能百分之百"},{"start":5512.44,"end":5514.44,"text":"那我們就務實的去面對"},{"start":5514.44,"end":5516.44,"text":"尤其是外交的事務"},{"start":5516.44,"end":5517.44,"text":"我們不會不知道"},{"start":5517.44,"end":5519.44,"text":"我們的外交的處境"},{"start":5519.44,"end":5521.44,"text":"我們也很清楚"},{"start":5521.44,"end":5522.44,"text":"現在的國際態勢"},{"start":5522.44,"end":5524.44,"text":"對我們從過去到現在"},{"start":5524.44,"end":5525.44,"text":"我們一直知道"},{"start":5525.44,"end":5527.44,"text":"存在這樣的一個問題"},{"start":5527.44,"end":5529.44,"text":"可是我們不要過度的美化"},{"start":5529.44,"end":5531.44,"text":"我們現在政府很喜歡"},{"start":5531.44,"end":5534.44,"text":"用那種內宣外宣的方式"},{"start":5534.48,"end":5536.48,"text":"然後都說我們做得非常好"},{"start":5536.48,"end":5538.48,"text":"可是大家當看到結果的時候"},{"start":5538.48,"end":5539.48,"text":"又不這麼認為"},{"start":5539.48,"end":5540.48,"text":"其實那種落差"},{"start":5540.48,"end":5542.48,"text":"反而會讓人民不信任"},{"start":5542.48,"end":5544.48,"text":"所以我發現"},{"start":5544.48,"end":5546.48,"text":"部長今天這個部分"},{"start":5546.48,"end":5547.48,"text":"我覺得做得很好"},{"start":5547.48,"end":5549.48,"text":"我們也希望未來"},{"start":5549.48,"end":5551.48,"text":"我們在任何的討論"},{"start":5551.48,"end":5553.48,"text":"如果說大家可以朝向這樣子"},{"start":5553.48,"end":5554.48,"text":"因為你說及格"},{"start":5554.48,"end":5556.48,"text":"那表示有一些是做不"},{"start":5556.48,"end":5557.48,"text":"做得不夠好的"},{"start":5557.48,"end":5559.48,"text":"那那些不夠好的部分"},{"start":5559.48,"end":5561.48,"text":"我們應該用什麼樣的資源"},{"start":5561.48,"end":5562.48,"text":"或者我們應該要怎麼樣"},{"start":5562.48,"end":5563.48,"text":"去強力的補強"},{"start":5563.5199999999995,"end":5564.5199999999995,"text":"或更精進"},{"start":5564.5199999999995,"end":5566.5199999999995,"text":"這才是大家去討論的"},{"start":5566.5199999999995,"end":5570.5199999999995,"text":"一個重要的目的"},{"start":5570.5199999999995,"end":5572.5199999999995,"text":"所以今天從這裡看起來"},{"start":5572.5199999999995,"end":5574.5199999999995,"text":"我們也希望說接下來"},{"start":5574.5199999999995,"end":5575.5199999999995,"text":"我們有很多"},{"start":5575.5199999999995,"end":5577.5199999999995,"text":"在可以討論的部分"},{"start":5577.5199999999995,"end":5578.5199999999995,"text":"或可以做得更好的部分"},{"start":5578.5199999999995,"end":5580.5199999999995,"text":"大家可以共同來努力"},{"start":5580.5199999999995,"end":5582.5199999999995,"text":"剛剛有委員提到"},{"start":5582.5199999999995,"end":5583.5199999999995,"text":"就是說在這一次"},{"start":5583.5199999999995,"end":5585.5199999999995,"text":"美以一戰爭的時候"},{"start":5585.5199999999995,"end":5588.5199999999995,"text":"我們這個撤僑的這個行動"},{"start":5588.5199999999995,"end":5590.5199999999995,"text":"因為過去其實在"},{"start":5590.5199999999995,"end":5592.5199999999995,"text":"日本三一大地震"},{"start":5592.56,"end":5593.56,"text":"或者燕子颱風"},{"start":5593.56,"end":5596.56,"text":"或者像之前二戰爭的時候"},{"start":5596.56,"end":5598.56,"text":"其實我們都會面臨到"},{"start":5598.56,"end":5601.56,"text":"有一些國人或者大家會關注到"},{"start":5601.56,"end":5602.56,"text":"是不是要撤僑"},{"start":5602.56,"end":5604.56,"text":"或者是不是我們國家"},{"start":5604.56,"end":5606.56,"text":"可以提供什麼樣的一個協助"},{"start":5606.56,"end":5608.56,"text":"讓我們的國人也好"},{"start":5608.56,"end":5609.56,"text":"我們的僑民也好"},{"start":5609.56,"end":5612.56,"text":"他們有一個更安全的一個保障"},{"start":5612.56,"end":5615.56,"text":"在這一次美以一戰爭的時候"},{"start":5615.56,"end":5617.56,"text":"事實上真的有一些人"},{"start":5617.56,"end":5619.56,"text":"其實是困在那裡"},{"start":5619.56,"end":5620.56,"text":"那我們在這裡"},{"start":5620.6,"end":5623.6,"text":"我們在這裡要釐清的是"},{"start":5623.6,"end":5625.6,"text":"其實大家不要把它過度政治化"},{"start":5625.6,"end":5628.6,"text":"因為在面對生死交關的時候"},{"start":5628.6,"end":5630.6,"text":"大家只是想要安全"},{"start":5630.6,"end":5633.6,"text":"或者活著找一個出路"},{"start":5633.6,"end":5635.6,"text":"或者可以找到一個"},{"start":5635.6,"end":5636.6,"text":"活著回家的一個路"},{"start":5636.6,"end":5639.6,"text":"所以這是政府應該要提供的"},{"start":5639.6,"end":5640.6,"text":"那今天如果我們"},{"start":5640.6,"end":5643.6,"text":"還沒有辦法做到更好的時候"},{"start":5643.6,"end":5644.6,"text":"更周全的時候"},{"start":5644.6,"end":5645.6,"text":"其實我們應該"},{"start":5645.6,"end":5649.6,"text":"讓他們有機會去做任何的事情"},{"start":5649.64,"end":5651.64,"text":"這一次包括中國大陸"},{"start":5651.64,"end":5654.64,"text":"其實他們也讓我們的"},{"start":5654.64,"end":5655.64,"text":"我們的國人"},{"start":5655.64,"end":5657.64,"text":"其實可以上他們的飛機"},{"start":5657.64,"end":5659.64,"text":"即使從上海轉機回來"},{"start":5659.64,"end":5661.64,"text":"我們也有國人"},{"start":5661.64,"end":5663.64,"text":"其實可以做日本的包機"},{"start":5663.64,"end":5665.64,"text":"日本是把他們剩下的座位"},{"start":5665.64,"end":5667.64,"text":"也提供給其他的國家"},{"start":5667.64,"end":5668.64,"text":"只要你願意出來"},{"start":5668.64,"end":5670.64,"text":"可能包括我們台灣人"},{"start":5670.64,"end":5672.64,"text":"所以只要有這樣的機會"},{"start":5672.64,"end":5674.64,"text":"我們都應該讓他上去"},{"start":5674.64,"end":5675.64,"text":"因為我不相信"},{"start":5675.64,"end":5677.64,"text":"有些人說那個有什麼風險"},{"start":5677.68,"end":5679.68,"text":"如果今天在海上"},{"start":5679.68,"end":5681.68,"text":"發生海難的時候"},{"start":5681.68,"end":5683.68,"text":"周邊最近的就是"},{"start":5683.68,"end":5685.68,"text":"中國大陸的一個船隻"},{"start":5685.68,"end":5687.68,"text":"他可以提供救援"},{"start":5687.68,"end":5690.68,"text":"他可以提供所有的救生圈"},{"start":5690.68,"end":5691.68,"text":"救生設備"},{"start":5691.68,"end":5692.68,"text":"可以讓你上船"},{"start":5692.68,"end":5694.68,"text":"我不相信那些在這裡"},{"start":5694.68,"end":5696.68,"text":"說有風險的人"},{"start":5696.68,"end":5698.68,"text":"他寧願自己在冰冷的海上"},{"start":5698.68,"end":5699.68,"text":"繼續飄"},{"start":5699.68,"end":5700.68,"text":"他不會上船"},{"start":5701.04,"end":5703.04,"text":"今天如果我們設身"},{"start":5703.04,"end":5704.04,"text":"處地的去想"},{"start":5704.04,"end":5706.04,"text":"不要所有的把它政治化"},{"start":5706.04,"end":5708.04,"text":"我們也有接到"},{"start":5708.04,"end":5710.04,"text":"國人其實在對我們請求"},{"start":5710.04,"end":5712.04,"text":"他說事實上他們回不來"},{"start":5712.04,"end":5714.04,"text":"可是後來他們就是搭上了"},{"start":5714.04,"end":5716.04,"text":"飛機坐到上海"},{"start":5716.04,"end":5717.04,"text":"轉機回來的"},{"start":5717.04,"end":5719.04,"text":"我覺得這個不需要去苛責"},{"start":5719.04,"end":5721.04,"text":"我們也沒有苛責我們自己的政府"},{"start":5721.04,"end":5723.04,"text":"因為我們有一些困境"},{"start":5723.04,"end":5725.04,"text":"可是當你做的"},{"start":5725.04,"end":5726.04,"text":"你沒有辦法做到的時候"},{"start":5726.04,"end":5728.04,"text":"你應該要讓國人有這樣的機會"},{"start":5728.04,"end":5730.04,"text":"而不是再去限制他"},{"start":5730.08,"end":5732.08,"text":"所以這是我們藉這個機會"},{"start":5732.08,"end":5733.08,"text":"要特別提出來的"},{"start":5733.98,"end":5735.98,"text":"剛剛說到的撤僑"},{"start":5735.98,"end":5736.98,"text":"因為有很多"},{"start":5736.98,"end":5737.98,"text":"我們可能"},{"start":5737.98,"end":5739.98,"text":"沒有辦法去做包機"},{"start":5739.98,"end":5741.98,"text":"或者有專機過去"},{"start":5741.98,"end":5744.98,"text":"因為這個牽涉到很多相關的問題"},{"start":5744.98,"end":5746.98,"text":"可是我們在這裡"},{"start":5746.98,"end":5748.98,"text":"要反過來提到"},{"start":5748.98,"end":5749.98,"text":"因為這個部分"},{"start":5749.98,"end":5751.98,"text":"我們還是請外交部可以做準備"},{"start":5751.98,"end":5752.98,"text":"因為現在這樣的機會"},{"start":5752.98,"end":5753.98,"text":"可能越來越多"},{"start":5753.98,"end":5755.98,"text":"我們所有的氣候的變遷"},{"start":5755.98,"end":5756.98,"text":"造成在哪一個國家"},{"start":5756.98,"end":5758.98,"text":"會發生重大的"},{"start":5758.98,"end":5760.98,"text":"這樣子的一個"},{"start":5760.91,"end":5761.91,"text":"風險影響"},{"start":5761.91,"end":5762.91,"text":"或者"},{"start":5762.91,"end":5764.91,"text":"只要像現在世界的局勢"},{"start":5764.91,"end":5765.91,"text":"這麼不穩定的情況之下"},{"start":5765.91,"end":5767.91,"text":"哪一個區域會發生戰爭"},{"start":5767.91,"end":5769.91,"text":"即使不是發生在你那個國家"},{"start":5769.91,"end":5770.91,"text":"不是在伊朗"},{"start":5770.91,"end":5771.91,"text":"可是在周邊國家"},{"start":5771.91,"end":5772.91,"text":"包括杜拜"},{"start":5772.91,"end":5773.91,"text":"大家都會去的地方"},{"start":5773.91,"end":5775.91,"text":"你也不知道就是會被打了"},{"start":5775.91,"end":5777.91,"text":"所以這樣子的因應的作為"},{"start":5777.91,"end":5779.91,"text":"我們必須要有"},{"start":5779.91,"end":5781.91,"text":"先有一個處置的方式"},{"start":5781.91,"end":5784.91,"text":"所以我們現在把它推回來"},{"start":5784.91,"end":5786.91,"text":"外交部現在有出國登錄"},{"start":5786.91,"end":5788.91,"text":"月月抽的這個活動"},{"start":5788.91,"end":5789.91,"text":"這個部分"},{"start":5789.95,"end":5790.95,"text":"我們希望大家"},{"start":5790.95,"end":5792.95,"text":"可以在政策上面"},{"start":5792.95,"end":5793.95,"text":"怎麼樣去做一個連結"},{"start":5793.95,"end":5794.95,"text":"因為近期外交部"},{"start":5794.95,"end":5797.95,"text":"跟媒體發布國人旅遊補助"},{"start":5797.95,"end":5799.95,"text":"只要符合資格出國玩"},{"start":5799.95,"end":5801.95,"text":"最高可以領五千元"},{"start":5801.95,"end":5803.95,"text":"或者有一千或五百元的"},{"start":5803.95,"end":5805.95,"text":"或者小禮物等等"},{"start":5805.95,"end":5807.95,"text":"那這個部分"},{"start":5807.95,"end":5809.95,"text":"說是為了讓國人海外"},{"start":5809.95,"end":5810.95,"text":"旅遊安全便利"},{"start":5810.95,"end":5812.95,"text":"外交領事事務局推出"},{"start":5812.95,"end":5814.95,"text":"這個出國登錄的活動"},{"start":5814.95,"end":5815.95,"text":"可是我們發現"},{"start":5815.95,"end":5817.95,"text":"這個可能也有一些問題"},{"start":5817.95,"end":5818.95,"text":"因為你這個是自主登錄"},{"start":5818.99,"end":5820.99,"text":"所以你沒有辦法"},{"start":5820.99,"end":5822.99,"text":"去記錄到所有人"},{"start":5822.99,"end":5823.99,"text":"所以當他在哪裡"},{"start":5823.99,"end":5824.99,"text":"世界那麼大"},{"start":5824.99,"end":5825.99,"text":"國家那麼大"},{"start":5825.99,"end":5826.99,"text":"他要去旅遊也好"},{"start":5826.99,"end":5827.99,"text":"去工作也好"},{"start":5827.99,"end":5828.99,"text":"各方面出國"},{"start":5828.99,"end":5830.99,"text":"任何形式都可能"},{"start":5830.99,"end":5832.99,"text":"所以當他沒有的時候"},{"start":5832.99,"end":5834.99,"text":"其實你也沒有辦法掌握"},{"start":5834.99,"end":5836.99,"text":"所以我們把錢花在這裡"},{"start":5836.99,"end":5837.99,"text":"與其要花在這裡"},{"start":5837.99,"end":5839.99,"text":"是不是把它用在"},{"start":5839.99,"end":5841.99,"text":"強化我們外交部"},{"start":5841.99,"end":5842.99,"text":"怎麼樣在"},{"start":5842.99,"end":5843.99,"text":"就我們剛剛說的"},{"start":5843.99,"end":5845.99,"text":"像現在因應各項的情勢"},{"start":5845.99,"end":5846.99,"text":"發生的時候"},{"start":5847.03,"end":5848.03,"text":"我們怎麼樣讓國人"},{"start":5848.03,"end":5849.03,"text":"知道第一時間"},{"start":5849.03,"end":5851.03,"text":"要怎麼樣聯繫我們的外交部"},{"start":5851.03,"end":5852.03,"text":"所有的駐外管處"},{"start":5852.03,"end":5853.03,"text":"或者怎麼樣"},{"start":5853.03,"end":5855.03,"text":"有一個幫他們"},{"start":5855.03,"end":5857.03,"text":"協助的一個管道"},{"start":5857.03,"end":5858.03,"text":"跟窗口"},{"start":5858.03,"end":5860.03,"text":"我們去強化這個部分"},{"start":5860.03,"end":5861.03,"text":"在他們出國的時候"},{"start":5861.03,"end":5863.03,"text":"因為出國就只有一個"},{"start":5863.03,"end":5864.03,"text":"就這些"},{"start":5864.03,"end":5865.03,"text":"就只能從機場出"},{"start":5865.03,"end":5867.03,"text":"從那個海關出"},{"start":5867.03,"end":5869.03,"text":"所以那樣子的一個管控"},{"start":5869.03,"end":5871.03,"text":"應該非常容易"},{"start":5871.03,"end":5873.03,"text":"讓他們得到這樣訊息"},{"start":5873.03,"end":5875.03,"text":"比你去抽獎還要好"},{"start":5875.03,"end":5876.03,"text":"因為他們的管控"},{"start":5876.07,"end":5877.07,"text":"還要好"},{"start":5877.07,"end":5878.07,"text":"因為我們看不出"},{"start":5878.07,"end":5879.07,"text":"他抽獎"},{"start":5879.07,"end":5880.07,"text":"可以有什麼"},{"start":5880.07,"end":5882.07,"text":"這樣海外安全的意思"},{"start":5882.07,"end":5884.07,"text":"因為大家要去哪一個國家"},{"start":5884.07,"end":5885.07,"text":"比如說要去義大利"},{"start":5885.07,"end":5886.07,"text":"爬手很多"},{"start":5886.07,"end":5887.07,"text":"大家都會"},{"start":5887.07,"end":5889.07,"text":"做一些預防的措施"},{"start":5889.07,"end":5890.07,"text":"所以我們希望"},{"start":5890.07,"end":5891.07,"text":"在必要的時候"},{"start":5891.07,"end":5892.07,"text":"提供協助"},{"start":5892.07,"end":5894.07,"text":"而不是這種抽獎的活動"},{"start":5894.07,"end":5895.07,"text":"這個部分"},{"start":5895.07,"end":5896.07,"text":"部長有什麼看法"},{"start":5896.07,"end":5897.07,"text":"好"},{"start":5897.07,"end":5899.07,"text":"我是同意委員的觀察跟"},{"start":5899.07,"end":5901.07,"text":"建議"},{"start":5901.07,"end":5903.07,"text":"當然一開始的時候"},{"start":5903.07,"end":5905.07,"text":"就是五年前開始"},{"start":5905.11,"end":5906.11,"text":"包括這個"},{"start":5906.11,"end":5908.11,"text":"所謂裡外國人動態登錄"},{"start":5908.11,"end":5909.11,"text":"包括LINE官方"},{"start":5909.11,"end":5911.11,"text":"一開始是要宣導"},{"start":5911.11,"end":5913.11,"text":"可是到了一個期間之後"},{"start":5913.11,"end":5914.11,"text":"因為這次其實"},{"start":5914.11,"end":5915.11,"text":"中東的戰事"},{"start":5915.11,"end":5916.11,"text":"也讓很多國人知道"},{"start":5916.11,"end":5918.11,"text":"這個有登錄"},{"start":5918.11,"end":5919.11,"text":"也可以保平安"},{"start":5919.11,"end":5920.11,"text":"那另外一個很重要"},{"start":5920.11,"end":5921.11,"text":"是跟旅行社"},{"start":5921.11,"end":5922.11,"text":"可以保守平安"},{"start":5922.11,"end":5923.11,"text":"登錄以後"},{"start":5923.11,"end":5924.11,"text":"因為這個資訊"},{"start":5924.11,"end":5925.11,"text":"就是到最後聯繫的時候"},{"start":5925.11,"end":5926.11,"text":"我們比較知道怎麼去"},{"start":5926.11,"end":5927.11,"text":"其實不會"},{"start":5927.11,"end":5929.11,"text":"因為你如果不是發生在"},{"start":5929.11,"end":5930.11,"text":"中東"},{"start":5930.11,"end":5931.11,"text":"因為部長我們現在"},{"start":5931.11,"end":5933.11,"text":"就是因為我們資源很有限"},{"start":5933.11,"end":5934.11,"text":"所以我們"},{"start":5934.15,"end":5935.15,"text":"我們一直認為說"},{"start":5935.15,"end":5937.15,"text":"與其要花在這裡"},{"start":5937.15,"end":5938.15,"text":"領事事務局那時候"},{"start":5938.15,"end":5939.15,"text":"不是說護照"},{"start":5939.15,"end":5940.15,"text":"要做沒錢嗎"},{"start":5940.15,"end":5941.15,"text":"要把它放在那裡"},{"start":5941.15,"end":5944.15,"text":"我們特別要提出來是說"},{"start":5944.15,"end":5946.15,"text":"如果發生這樣的事情的時候"},{"start":5946.15,"end":5947.15,"text":"我們其實讓"},{"start":5947.15,"end":5949.15,"text":"讓國人知道"},{"start":5949.15,"end":5950.15,"text":"應該尋找什麼樣的窗口"},{"start":5950.15,"end":5952.15,"text":"因為這個政策"},{"start":5952.15,"end":5953.15,"text":"我們比較擔心的"},{"start":5953.15,"end":5954.15,"text":"另外還有一點"},{"start":5954.15,"end":5955.15,"text":"因為我們覺得"},{"start":5955.15,"end":5956.15,"text":"它好像沒有太大的必要"},{"start":5956.15,"end":5957.15,"text":"另外一個是"},{"start":5957.15,"end":5959.15,"text":"因為現在"},{"start":5959.15,"end":5961.15,"text":"我們台灣的詐騙橫行"},{"start":5961.15,"end":5963.15,"text":"國際也是"},{"start":5963.19,"end":5964.19,"text":"也不只台灣"},{"start":5964.19,"end":5965.19,"text":"可是這樣的詐騙"},{"start":5965.19,"end":5967.19,"text":"是因為它有很多的個資"},{"start":5967.19,"end":5969.19,"text":"是很容易取得"},{"start":5969.19,"end":5971.19,"text":"或者被拿到了以後"},{"start":5971.19,"end":5973.19,"text":"其實大概就做這些使用"},{"start":5973.19,"end":5975.19,"text":"所以這個活動推動以來"},{"star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我們的檢討這個經濟"},{"start":6072.31,"end":6074.31,"text":"也會跨部會來協調"},{"start":6074.31,"end":6076.31,"text":"因為目標是要關心"},{"start":6076.31,"end":6077.31,"text":"跟協助國人"},{"start":6077.35,"end":6079.35,"text":"協助國人萬一在戰爭或天然災害"},{"start":6079.35,"end":6081.35,"text":"或是什麼樣的緊急應變"},{"start":6081.35,"end":6083.35,"text":"所以這個抽獎只是一個方法"},{"start":6083.35,"end":6086.35,"text":"一開始也許為了要促銷"},{"start":6086.35,"end":6088.35,"text":"宣導但是到了一個程度之後"},{"start":6088.35,"end":6090.35,"text":"我想效果我們會來看"},{"start":6090.35,"end":6092.35,"text":"方法上面怎麼去精進"},{"start":6092.35,"end":6093.35,"text":"因為我們一方面就是說"},{"start":6093.35,"end":6094.35,"text":"個資的這個保護"},{"start":6094.35,"end":6095.35,"text":"因為我們還是希望"},{"start":6095.35,"end":6097.35,"text":"這個才是很重要的考量"},{"start":6097.35,"end":6099.35,"text":"因為我們做不到"},{"start":6099.35,"end":6101.35,"text":"幫這些國人他們提供"},{"start":6101.35,"end":6103.35,"text":"這麼詳細的資料以後"},{"start":6103.35,"end":6104.35,"text":"我們可以確保多少"},{"start":6104.35,"end":6106.35,"text":"這個是我們可能要提出來的"},{"start":6106.39,"end":6108.39,"text":"好 那就這個一方面"},{"start":6108.39,"end":6110.39,"text":"我們希望未來有很多"},{"start":6110.39,"end":6111.39,"text":"不管在預算上面"},{"start":6111.39,"end":6113.39,"text":"因為預算我們還是期待"},{"start":6115.2699999999995,"end":6117.2699999999995,"text":"我們中央政府就是"},{"start":6117.2699999999995,"end":6118.2699999999995,"text":"我們在行政院"},{"start":6118.2699999999995,"end":6120.2699999999995,"text":"其實他們也可以釋出"},{"start":6120.2699999999995,"end":6122.2699999999995,"text":"這樣子的一個善意"},{"start":6122.2699999999995,"end":6124.2699999999995,"text":"今天不是只要求"},{"start":6124.2699999999995,"end":6126.2699999999995,"text":"在野黨應該要去通過"},{"start":6126.2699999999995,"end":6127.2699999999995,"text":"怎麼樣的預算"},{"start":6127.2699999999995,"end":6129.2699999999995,"text":"任何的預算其實大家都希望"},{"start":6129.2699999999995,"end":6131.2699999999995,"text":"可以好好的去執行"},{"start":6131.2699999999995,"end":6133.2699999999995,"text":"可是當很重要的預算"},{"start":6133.2699999999995,"end":6135.2699999999995,"text":"通過這樣子相關"},{"start":6135.2699999999995,"end":6137.2699999999995,"text":"法律或者應該要編列的時候"},{"start":6137.2699999999995,"end":6138.2699999999995,"text":"沒有編"},{"start":6138.2699999999995,"end":6139.2699999999995,"text":"因為軍人的照顧"},{"start":6139.2699999999995,"end":6140.2699999999995,"text":"警消的照顧"},{"start":6140.2699999999995,"end":6142.2699999999995,"text":"其實事實上他就是重要的"},{"start":6142.2699999999995,"end":6144.2699999999995,"text":"他不管對內對外"},{"start":6144.31,"end":6146.31,"text":"他都是站在第一線的"},{"start":6146.31,"end":6148.31,"text":"這些執勤的人員"},{"start":6148.31,"end":6149.31,"text":"或者所有服務的人員"},{"start":6149.31,"end":6151.31,"text":"如果他們沒有受到照顧"},{"start":6151.31,"end":6153.31,"text":"我們政府其他說非常重要"},{"start":6153.31,"end":6155.31,"text":"根本都是假的"},{"start":6155.31,"end":6156.31,"text":"所以就這個部分"},{"start":6156.31,"end":6157.31,"text":"我們也期待"},{"start":6157.31,"end":6160.31,"text":"如果說政府願意釋出善意"},{"start":6160.31,"end":6162.31,"text":"其實沒有這麼多的問題"},{"start":6162.31,"end":6163.31,"text":"那這個部分"},{"start":6163.31,"end":6164.31,"text":"我們也期待"},{"start":6164.31,"end":6166.31,"text":"部長有機會"},{"start":6166.31,"end":6167.31,"text":"也跟高層建議一下"},{"start":6167.31,"end":6168.31,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6168.31,"end":6169.31,"text":"好 一起來努力 謝謝"},{"start":6177.16,"end":6179.2,"text":"現在我們請王毅川委員來諮詢"},{"start":6180.57,"end":6181.61,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6189.18,"end":6191.18,"text":"主席請林部長"},{"start":6191.18,"end":6192.18,"text":"有請林部長"},{"start":6194,"end":6195.04,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":6199.4,"end":6200.4,"text":"委員好"},{"start":6200.4,"end":6201.4,"text":"部長好"},{"start":6201.75,"end":6203.75,"text":"剛聽到你說我在交通委員會"},{"start":6203.75,"end":6205.75,"text":"我就是為了你來的"},{"start":6205.75,"end":6206.75,"text":"是喔"},{"start":6206.75,"end":6207.75,"text":"我這個會期就來這裡"},{"start":6207.75,"end":6208.75,"text":"好啊"},{"start":6209.19,"end":6210.19,"text":"這個角色"},{"start":6210.19,"end":6211.19,"text":"請交換"},{"start":6212.19,"end":6214.23,"text":"我們現在有十幾個友邦"},{"start":6215.48,"end":6216.5199999999995,"text":"推薦一下"},{"start":6217.01,"end":6220.01,"text":"我們如果國人要去友邦觀光"},{"start":6220.01,"end":6221.01,"text":"是"},{"start":6221.16,"end":6222.16,"text":"建議哪些"},{"start":6222.16,"end":6224.16,"text":"我去過是去過帛琉"},{"start":6224.16,"end":6226.16,"text":"那范棣岡也去"},{"start":6226.16,"end":6228.16,"text":"其他國家我不熟"},{"start":6228.16,"end":6230.16,"text":"其他國家還有哪些國家是"},{"start":6230.16,"end":6232.16,"text":"適合我們去觀光"},{"start":6232.16,"end":6233.16,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":6233.16,"end":6235.16,"text":"因為您當過交通局長"},{"start":6235.16,"end":6237.16,"text":"對於觀光很熟"},{"start":6237.16,"end":6239.16,"text":"我也當過交通部長"},{"start":6239.16,"end":6240.16,"text":"對觀光也了解"},{"start":6240.16,"end":6243.16,"text":"我認為我們有12個邦交國"},{"start":6243.16,"end":6244.16,"text":"當然也還有像友好的"},{"start":6244.16,"end":6246.16,"text":"像索馬利蘭等等"},{"start":6246.16,"end":6247.16,"text":"如果說邦交國"},{"start":6247.16,"end":6249.16,"text":"我認為要區塊化的話"},{"start":6249.2,"end":6251.2,"text":"一個當然是拉丁美洲有7個國家"},{"start":6251.2,"end":6253.2,"text":"那其中瓜貝"},{"start":6255.48,"end":6256.48,"text":"瓜地馬拉跟貝里斯"},{"start":6256.48,"end":6257.48,"text":"是中美洲"},{"start":6257.48,"end":6258.48,"text":"所以我們很常去L.A."},{"start":6258.48,"end":6261.48,"text":"或是去佛羅里達這些地方"},{"start":6261.48,"end":6263.48,"text":"我認為可以延長到瓜貝"},{"start":6263.48,"end":6266.48,"text":"因為是很不一樣的兩個國家"},{"start":6266.48,"end":6268.48,"text":"一個英語系一個西班牙"},{"start":6268.48,"end":6270.48,"text":"第二個我要講的是山盛"},{"start":6270.48,"end":6273.48,"text":"盛沐西亞盛文森"},{"start":6273.48,"end":6275.48,"text":"盛克里斯多夫尼維斯"},{"start":6275.48,"end":6277.48,"text":"另外一個是南美洲可以單獨"},{"start":6277.48,"end":6279.48,"text":"巴拉圭確實南美有另外的風貌"},{"start":6279.48,"end":6282.48,"text":"再來當然是太平洋三個國家"},{"start":6282.48,"end":6283.48,"text":"你不錯你總介紹完"},{"start":6283.5199999999995,"end":6286.5199999999995,"text":"我想說你會獨厚哪幾個國家"},{"start":6286.5199999999995,"end":6288.5199999999995,"text":"12個就好group"},{"start":6288.5199999999995,"end":6290.5199999999995,"text":"我是建議這樣"},{"start":6290.5199999999995,"end":6293.5199999999995,"text":"外交部把這12個國家"},{"start":6293.5199999999995,"end":6296.5199999999995,"text":"也幫他們做個觀光檢驗"},{"start":6297.58,"end":6299.58,"text":"讓我們的國人"},{"start":6299.58,"end":6301.58,"text":"想要去友邦"},{"start":6301.58,"end":6302.58,"text":"也知道要去哪裡"},{"start":6302.58,"end":6304.58,"text":"去哪裡轉機"},{"start":6304.58,"end":6306.58,"text":"安排看旅行社"},{"start":6306.58,"end":6308.58,"text":"有沒有要辦這種團"},{"start":6308.58,"end":6311.58,"text":"我們就友邦來友邦的"},{"start":6311.58,"end":6312.58,"text":"不去觀光"},{"start":6312.58,"end":6314.58,"text":"都去投資"},{"start":6314.58,"end":6316.58,"text":"觀光也是一種消費"},{"start":6316.58,"end":6317.58,"text":"對"},{"start":6317.58,"end":6318.58,"text":"投資"},{"start":6318.58,"end":6320.58,"text":"我們補充一下港雄服務"},{"start":6320.58,"end":6322.58,"text":"我們去年台北國際旅遊展"},{"start":6322.58,"end":6326.58,"text":"已經幫他們設那個攤位"},{"start":6326.62,"end":6329.62,"text":"另外一個確實包括像熊獅等等"},{"start":6329.62,"end":6331.62,"text":"他們現在就是從L.A."},{"start":6331.62,"end":6335.62,"text":"準備要染客到貝里斯"},{"start":6335.62,"end":6336.62,"text":"我也建議他們瓜地馬"},{"start":6336.62,"end":6338.62,"text":"所以我們會跟旅行社"},{"start":6338.62,"end":6339.62,"text":"也事實上有一些合作"},{"start":6339.62,"end":6341.62,"text":"不過您剛講那個測試"},{"start":6341.62,"end":6345.62,"text":"或怎麼樣我們能夠透過我們的網頁"},{"start":6345.62,"end":6346.62,"text":"還有各方式"},{"start":6346.62,"end":6347.62,"text":"其實我們很多的促銷活動"},{"start":6347.62,"end":6349.62,"text":"瓜地馬拉的咖啡"},{"start":6349.62,"end":6352.62,"text":"或是巴拉圭的牛肉"},{"start":6352.62,"end":6355.62,"text":"剛才馬文君委說的登錄"},{"start":6355.66,"end":6357.66,"text":"登錄抽獎"},{"start":6357.66,"end":6359.66,"text":"如果去友邦的"},{"start":6359.66,"end":6361.66,"text":"蓋滿12個"},{"start":6361.66,"end":6363.66,"text":"抽獎的比較大"},{"start":6363.66,"end":6365.66,"text":"登錄去友邦的"},{"start":6365.66,"end":6366.66,"text":"我們有友邦的"},{"start":6366.66,"end":6368.66,"text":"那就會鼓勵大家去"},{"start":6368.66,"end":6371.66,"text":"集滿12個印章"},{"start":6371.66,"end":6373.66,"text":"集滿12個是你的事"},{"start":6374.28,"end":6375.28,"text":"好"},{"start":6375.28,"end":6376.28,"text":"南韓"},{"start":6376.28,"end":6380.28,"text":"南韓最近為了電子入境"},{"start":6380.28,"end":6382.28,"text":"卡的事情"},{"start":6382.28,"end":6384.28,"text":"港外交部也有一些反應"},{"start":6384.28,"end":6386.28,"text":"現在又傳出包括丹麥"},{"start":6387.99,"end":6389.03,"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對嗎"},{"start":7148.41,"end":7149.41,"text":"是"},{"start":7149.41,"end":7150.41,"text":"對方是給予我們樣子"},{"start":7150.45,"end":7151.45,"text":"就是在交涉"},{"start":7151.45,"end":7153.45,"text":"我們先講交涉的這個部分"},{"start":7153.45,"end":7154.45,"text":"那對方是給予我們"},{"start":7154.45,"end":7155.45,"text":"什麼樣的一個回應"},{"start":7155.45,"end":7157.45,"text":"他們本來是2月1號"},{"start":7157.45,"end":7158.45,"text":"就要統一啦"},{"start":7158.45,"end":7159.45,"text":"就沒有紙本"},{"start":7159.45,"end":7160.45,"text":"統一什麼"},{"start":7160.45,"end":7163.45,"text":"就是那個入境那個電子卡"},{"start":7163.45,"end":7164.45,"text":"電子卡"},{"start":7164.45,"end":7165.45,"text":"就以前還可以用手寫"},{"start":7165.45,"end":7167.45,"text":"統一的話就變成是"},{"start":7167.45,"end":7168.45,"text":"都是寫Taiwan China的意思"},{"start":7168.45,"end":7170.45,"text":"就是都用電子入境卡"},{"start":7170.45,"end":7171.45,"text":"對啊 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China"},{"start":7180.49,"end":7181.49,"text":"有被做任何的修正嗎"},{"start":7181.49,"end":7182.49,"text":"他們在這部分"},{"start":7182.49,"end":7183.49,"text":"那表示說"},{"start":7183.49,"end":7184.49,"text":"我們跟他交涉之後"},{"start":7184.49,"end":7185.49,"text":"我們去年底交涉之後"},{"start":7185.49,"end":7186.49,"text":"他2月1號"},{"start":7186.49,"end":7189.49,"text":"本來是要整合的"},{"start":7189.49,"end":7190.49,"text":"就先放著"},{"start":7190.49,"end":7191.49,"text":"那我問一下"},{"start":7191.49,"end":7192.49,"text":"那你們去交涉的時候"},{"start":7192.49,"end":7193.49,"text":"你們只是說"},{"start":7193.49,"end":7194.49,"text":"這個分開"},{"start":7194.49,"end":7195.49,"text":"讓我有兩種選擇"},{"start":7195.49,"end":7196.49,"text":"還是你們是認為說"},{"start":7196.49,"end":7198.49,"text":"你交涉的是你的"},{"start":7198.49,"end":7200.49,"text":"南韓電子入境卡的這個部分"},{"start":7200.49,"end":7202.49,"text":"不要寫Taiwan China"},{"start":7202.49,"end":7203.49,"text":"對"},{"start":7203.49,"end":7204.49,"text":"那你剛講的"},{"start":7204.49,"end":7205.49,"text":"那只是"},{"start":7205.49,"end":7206.49,"text":"就是一種備案而已"},{"start":7206.49,"end":7207.49,"text":"實際上面"},{"start":7207.49,"end":7208.49,"text":"我們主要訴求"},{"start":7208.53,"end":7209.53,"text":"人家沒有接受啊"},{"start":7209.53,"end":7211.53,"text":"他們現在在處理中啊"},{"start":7211.53,"end":7212.53,"text":"處理中"},{"start":7212.53,"end":7213.53,"text":"他說他們有了解"},{"start":7213.53,"end":7214.53,"text":"我們的立場啊"},{"start":7214.53,"end":7216.53,"text":"然後他們也在這個研究啊"},{"start":7216.53,"end":7217.53,"text":"好 等一下"},{"start":7217.53,"end":7218.53,"text":"我會再跟你進一步討論"},{"start":7218.53,"end":7219.53,"text":"你說他們"},{"start":7219.53,"end":7220.53,"text":"他們 您剛的意思"},{"start":7220.53,"end":7221.53,"text":"我們一個一個來"},{"start":7221.53,"end":7223.53,"text":"他們現在正在處理中"},{"start":7223.53,"end":7225.53,"text":"要把南韓電子入境卡"},{"start":7225.53,"end":7227.53,"text":"上面寫的Taiwan 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沒事"},{"start":7248.42,"end":7250.42,"text":"那但是南韓的媒體卻指出呢"},{"start":7250.42,"end":7252.42,"text":"在南韓的官方文件當中"},{"start":7252.42,"end":7253.42,"text":"一直都是用Taiwan China"},{"start":7253.42,"end":7255.42,"text":"來標註台灣的"},{"start":7255.42,"end":7257.42,"text":"那這個政府20多年來"},{"start":7257.42,"end":7259.42,"text":"包含這個其中也有8年是"},{"start":7259.42,"end":7260.42,"text":"蔡英文總統的執政"},{"start":7260.42,"end":7262.42,"text":"他說我們都沒有提出異議"},{"start":7262.42,"end":7263.42,"text":"那請問一下"},{"start":7263.42,"end":7265.42,"text":"南韓的媒體這樣子報導"},{"start":7265.42,"end":7267.42,"text":"是有符合事實嗎"},{"start":7267.42,"end":7268.42,"text":"還是過去其實"},{"start":7268.42,"end":7270.42,"text":"我們有經過多次的抗議"},{"start":7270.42,"end":7272.42,"text":"但對方沒有去做改善呢"},{"start":7273.04,"end":7276.04,"text":"這個是確實韓國一直這樣"},{"start":7276.04,"end":7277.04,"text":"但是它現在是"},{"start":7277.04,"end":7279.04,"text":"就是所謂的目的地"},{"start":7279.04,"end":7282.04,"text":"跟它旅遊的上一站"},{"start":7282.7699999999995,"end":7285.7699999999995,"text":"把它用成China 掛號台灣"},{"start":7285.7699999999995,"end":7286.7699999999995,"text":"所以這個是新制"},{"start":7287.63,"end":7288.63,"text":"對啊 就是他們"},{"start":7288.63,"end":7289.63,"text":"新制是從什麼時候開始"},{"start":7289.63,"end":7290.63,"text":"因為它要電子化嘛"},{"start":7290.63,"end":7291.63,"text":"所以就是要整合"},{"start":7291.63,"end":7294.63,"text":"沒有 整合是它原本"},{"start":7294.63,"end":7295.63,"text":"本來有一個"},{"start":7295.63,"end":7296.63,"text":"但它就是有兩"},{"start":7296.63,"end":7297.63,"text":"你剛剛講的有兩種辦法嘛"},{"start":7297.63,"end":7299.63,"text":"但現在本來要改成"},{"start":7299.63,"end":7300.63,"text":"只有一種辦法"},{"start":7300.63,"end":7302.63,"text":"那我先不談紙本的部分"},{"start":7302.63,"end":7303.63,"text":"我針對的是"},{"start":7303.63,"end":7304.63,"text":"電子入境的部分"},{"start":7304.63,"end":7306.63,"text":"那南韓的媒體它的報導是說"},{"start":7306.63,"end":7308.63,"text":"因為如果南韓媒體"},{"start":7308.63,"end":7309.63,"text":"講的是錯的"},{"start":7309.63,"end":7310.63,"text":"那我覺得我們也有責任"},{"start":7310.63,"end":7311.63,"text":"在這裡公開告訴他們說"},{"start":7311.63,"end":7312.63,"text":"你們這樣報導"},{"start":7312.63,"end":7313.63,"text":"是不是實的"},{"start":7313.63,"end":7314.63,"text":"那他們的說法是說呢"},{"start":7314.63,"end":7316.63,"text":"南韓的電子入境卡"},{"start":7316.67,"end":7317.67,"text":"不講紙本喔"},{"start":7317.67,"end":7318.67,"text":"一直以來都是用"},{"start":7318.67,"end":7320.67,"text":"這樣的一個方式去做標註"},{"start":7320.67,"end":7321.67,"text":"那你們都"},{"start":7321.67,"end":7322.67,"text":"還是我們20多年來"},{"start":7322.67,"end":7323.67,"text":"都沒有意見"},{"start":7323.67,"end":7324.67,"text":"現在突然對我有意見"},{"start":7324.67,"end":7325.67,"text":"過去都有意見"},{"start":7325.67,"end":7326.67,"text":"只是沒有像我"},{"start":7326.67,"end":7327.67,"text":"這麼樣的清楚"},{"start":7327.67,"end":7329.67,"text":"直接有力的表達"},{"start":7329.67,"end":7330.67,"text":"懂你的意思"},{"start":7330.67,"end":7332.67,"text":"所以就是說過去確實"},{"start":7332.67,"end":7333.67,"text":"有提出意義"},{"start":7333.67,"end":7335.67,"text":"但是林佳龍部長"},{"start":7335.67,"end":7336.67,"text":"是對於這個事情"},{"start":7336.67,"end":7338.67,"text":"最強而有力去表達的"},{"start":7338.67,"end":7339.67,"text":"這樣講對嗎"},{"start":7339.67,"end":7341.67,"text":"因為他去年2月開始"},{"start":7341.67,"end":7343.67,"text":"就在我上任外交部長"},{"start":7343.67,"end":7344.67,"text":"然後他要把它整合"},{"start":7344.67,"end":7345.67,"text":"那整合就會"},{"start":7345.71,"end":7347.71,"text":"連這個空間都沒有的時候"},{"start":7347.71,"end":7349.71,"text":"我們當然要表達立場"},{"start":7349.71,"end":7350.71,"text":"他也聽到了"},{"start":7350.71,"end":7351.71,"text":"他也暫緩了"},{"start":7351.71,"end":7352.71,"text":"現在三一"},{"start":7352.71,"end":7353.71,"text":"我們也"},{"start":7353.71,"end":7354.71,"text":"但我們不能等他"},{"start":7354.71,"end":7355.71,"text":"因為他暫緩我們就不做"},{"start":7355.71,"end":7356.71,"text":"我們該做的"},{"start":7356.71,"end":7357.71,"text":"所以我們該做的就是"},{"start":7357.71,"end":7359.71,"text":"所謂的反制措施"},{"start":7359.71,"end":7360.71,"text":"也不是反制"},{"start":7360.71,"end":7361.71,"text":"就是如實的紀錄"},{"start":7361.71,"end":7362.71,"text":"不是啦"},{"start":7362.71,"end":7364.71,"text":"我們反制措施是把"},{"start":7364.71,"end":7367.71,"text":"韓僑居留證改成南韓"},{"start":7367.71,"end":7368.71,"text":"那原本是怎麼寫"},{"start":7368.71,"end":7369.71,"text":"現在改成怎麼寫"},{"start":7369.71,"end":7370.71,"text":"跟大家說明一下"},{"start":7370.71,"end":7371.71,"text":"這是第一步"},{"start":7371.71,"end":7373.71,"text":"因為他們其實"},{"start":7373.75,"end":7376.75,"text":"其實南韓政府曾經"},{"start":7376.75,"end":7377.75,"text":"跟我們拜託"},{"start":7377.75,"end":7380.75,"text":"就是以前最早的時候"},{"start":7380.75,"end":7381.75,"text":"都用南韓"},{"start":7381.75,"end":7383.75,"text":"後來變成韓國"},{"start":7383.75,"end":7385.75,"text":"然後現在我們就說"},{"start":7385.75,"end":7386.75,"text":"你這樣子對我"},{"start":7386.75,"end":7388.75,"text":"那我也要再叫你南韓"},{"start":7388.75,"end":7389.75,"text":"現在就Colea"},{"start":7389.75,"end":7390.75,"text":"括號Sausage"},{"start":7390.75,"end":7391.75,"text":"所以他給我們這個"},{"start":7394.01,"end":7395.01,"text":"對不起 校長"},{"start":7395.01,"end":7396.01,"text":"China括號台灣"},{"start":7396.01,"end":7397.01,"text":"所以我給你"},{"start":7397.01,"end":7399.01,"text":"Colea括號Sausage"},{"start":7399.01,"end":7400.01,"text":"你是這個意思"},{"start":7400.01,"end":7401.01,"text":"是對等跟尊嚴"},{"start":7401.01,"end":7402.01,"text":"對等跟尊嚴"},{"start":7402.01,"end":7403.01,"text":"好有底氣"},{"start":7403.01,"end":7405.01,"text":"那再來就是說"},{"start":7405.01,"end":7408.01,"text":"他們電子的不改"},{"start":7408.01,"end":7409.01,"text":"我們改用紙本"},{"start":7409.01,"end":7411.01,"text":"那這個也是屬於"},{"start":7411.01,"end":7412.01,"text":"我們反制行為的一環嗎"},{"start":7412.01,"end":7413.01,"text":"應該是說"},{"start":7413.01,"end":7414.01,"text":"我們交涉啦"},{"start":7414.01,"end":7415.01,"text":"我們其實"},{"start":7415.01,"end":7416.01,"text":"我們是希望說"},{"start":7416.01,"end":7417.01,"text":"這個東西能夠"},{"start":7417.01,"end":7418.01,"text":"大家有一個解決的方法"},{"start":7418.01,"end":7420.01,"text":"他也說聽到"},{"start":7420.01,"end":7422.01,"text":"他也暫緩把它整合了"},{"start":7422.01,"end":7423.01,"text":"所以這個就有時間來談"},{"start":7423.05,"end":7424.05,"text":"但是我們3月1號"},{"start":7424.05,"end":7425.05,"text":"因為是基於超支在"},{"start":7425.05,"end":7426.05,"text":"我們的部分"},{"start":7426.05,"end":7427.05,"text":"我知道"},{"start":7427.05,"end":7428.05,"text":"我想要問的是"},{"start":7428.05,"end":7429.05,"text":"我們用了哪一些"},{"start":7429.05,"end":7431.05,"text":"我們用了哪一些的手段方式"},{"start":7431.05,"end":7433.05,"text":"然後去宣傳說"},{"start":7433.05,"end":7434.05,"text":"大家不要用電子入鏡卡"},{"start":7434.05,"end":7435.05,"text":"都要用紙本"},{"start":7435.05,"end":7436.05,"text":"沒有啦"},{"start":7436.05,"end":7437.05,"text":"就是有這個選項"},{"start":7437.05,"end":7439.05,"text":"至少還維持"},{"start":7439.05,"end":7441.05,"text":"有些人想用台灣"},{"start":7441.05,"end":7442.05,"text":"可是你有建議啊"},{"start":7442.05,"end":7443.05,"text":"還可以用台灣"},{"start":7443.05,"end":7444.05,"text":"那你有沒有建議嘛"},{"start":7444.05,"end":7445.05,"text":"因為這也是報導報的"},{"start":7445.05,"end":7446.05,"text":"就3月4號報導"},{"start":7446.05,"end":7447.05,"text":"如果它就電子的話"},{"start":7447.05,"end":7448.05,"text":"就沒有這個空間了"},{"start":7448.05,"end":7449.05,"text":"對 這個你剛剛講過了"},{"start":7449.05,"end":7450.05,"text":"我現在講的是說呢"},{"start":7450.05,"end":7452.05,"text":"因為現在有電子的嘛"},{"start":7452.09,"end":7453.09,"text":"然後跟紙本的嘛"},{"start":7453.09,"end":7455.09,"text":"那外交部是否有建議"},{"start":7455.09,"end":7457.09,"text":"國人不要使用電子入鏡卡"},{"start":7457.09,"end":7459.09,"text":"而改填紙本"},{"start":7459.09,"end":7461.09,"text":"這個報導的這個標題"},{"start":7461.09,"end":7462.09,"text":"是否屬實"},{"start":7462.09,"end":7463.09,"text":"有一點稍微有點不太一樣"},{"start":7463.09,"end":7465.09,"text":"那具體是怎麼樣呢"},{"start":7465.09,"end":7467.09,"text":"現在就是兩字很並行"},{"start":7467.09,"end":7469.09,"text":"那如果說對於China"},{"start":7469.09,"end":7470.09,"text":"括號Taiwan"},{"start":7470.09,"end":7471.09,"text":"我們有些國人"},{"start":7471.09,"end":7473.09,"text":"他很有他的立場啊"},{"start":7473.09,"end":7475.09,"text":"他有另外一個選項"},{"start":7475.09,"end":7476.09,"text":"OK"},{"start":7476.09,"end":7477.09,"text":"所以你沒有建議"},{"start":7477.09,"end":7478.09,"text":"他要改紙本"},{"start":7478.09,"end":7480.09,"text":"只是說如果你個人覺得"},{"start":7480.13,"end":7482.13,"text":"那你不想要用這個方式的話"},{"start":7482.13,"end":7483.13,"text":"那你就填紙本"},{"start":7483.13,"end":7485.13,"text":"對 這個人的層次是這樣"},{"start":7485.13,"end":7486.13,"text":"OK 好"},{"start":7486.13,"end":7487.13,"text":"那在國家的層次"},{"start":7487.13,"end":7489.13,"text":"我跟他交涉就是基於說"},{"start":7489.13,"end":7491.13,"text":"你必須要尊重台灣"},{"start":7491.13,"end":7492.13,"text":"然後用可識別"},{"start":7492.13,"end":7493.13,"text":"最簡單就是"},{"start":7493.13,"end":7494.13,"text":"這個我清楚"},{"start":7494.13,"end":7496.13,"text":"那剛剛講到嘛"},{"start":7496.13,"end":7497.13,"text":"那我們現在呢"},{"start":7497.13,"end":7499.13,"text":"就要把這個喬韓的拘留著"},{"start":7499.13,"end":7501.13,"text":"你說以前我們叫你南韓"},{"start":7501.13,"end":7502.13,"text":"現在後來呢"},{"start":7502.13,"end":7503.13,"text":"這個韓國政府請託"},{"start":7503.13,"end":7504.13,"text":"我們就叫你韓國"},{"start":7504.13,"end":7505.13,"text":"好 那現在呢"},{"start":7505.13,"end":7507.13,"text":"我要把你改回這個"},{"start":7507.13,"end":7509.13,"text":"Korea括號Taiwan"},{"start":7509.17,"end":7511.17,"text":"Korea括號造死南韓"},{"start":7511.17,"end":7513.17,"text":"那部長您今天介紹媒體訪問的時候"},{"start":7513.17,"end":7515.17,"text":"你覺得這個會有效"},{"start":7515.17,"end":7516.17,"text":"而是有效在哪個地方"},{"start":7516.17,"end":7518.17,"text":"可不可以再具體幫我們解釋"},{"start":7518.17,"end":7520.17,"text":"就是說你們是怎麼評估"},{"start":7520.17,"end":7522.17,"text":"評估它會有效的"},{"start":7522.17,"end":7524.17,"text":"那有效是有什麼效"},{"start":7524.17,"end":7525.17,"text":"有沒有效"},{"start":7525.17,"end":7527.17,"text":"當然我們先表達我們的立場"},{"start":7527.17,"end":7528.17,"text":"交涉中"},{"start":7528.17,"end":7530.17,"text":"他也聽到了"},{"start":7530.17,"end":7531.17,"text":"也做了初步"},{"start":7531.17,"end":7535.17,"text":"先暫緩合併這個紙本跟電子卡"},{"start":7535.17,"end":7536.17,"text":"但是呢進一步"},{"start":7536.17,"end":7538.17,"text":"我們也設定了一個時間"},{"start":7538.21,"end":7539.21,"text":"3月11號"},{"start":7539.21,"end":7541.21,"text":"我們希望說他有具體"},{"start":7541.21,"end":7543.21,"text":"他得出來到底研究的結果是如何"},{"start":7543.21,"end":7545.21,"text":"所以他有跟您定一個時間點"},{"start":7545.21,"end":7546.21,"text":"沒有 我們定的"},{"start":7546.21,"end":7547.21,"text":"我們給他"},{"start":7547.21,"end":7548.21,"text":"我們裝設的時候"},{"start":7548.21,"end":7549.21,"text":"給他一個時間點"},{"start":7549.21,"end":7550.21,"text":"我們下一步"},{"start":7550.21,"end":7552.21,"text":"3月31號會有進一步"},{"start":7552.21,"end":7553.21,"text":"我們的作為"},{"start":7553.21,"end":7554.21,"text":"OK OK"},{"start":7554.21,"end":7555.21,"text":"都有先知會他"},{"start":7555.21,"end":7556.21,"text":"就是這樣子"},{"start":7556.21,"end":7557.21,"text":"我們給對方的deadline"},{"start":7557.21,"end":7559.21,"text":"叫做3月11號"},{"start":7559.21,"end":7560.21,"text":"那如果3月11號"},{"start":7560.21,"end":7562.21,"text":"對方就是還是這樣子"},{"start":7562.21,"end":7563.21,"text":"3月31號"},{"start":7563.21,"end":7564.21,"text":"3月31號"},{"start":7564.21,"end":7566.21,"text":"對 因為我講11號已經過了"},{"start":7566.25,"end":7567.25,"text":"3月31號"},{"start":7567.25,"end":7569.25,"text":"所以我們給對方一個deadline"},{"start":7569.25,"end":7571.25,"text":"叫做3月31號"},{"start":7571.25,"end":7573.25,"text":"那如果對方還是依然顧我"},{"start":7573.25,"end":7577.25,"text":"沒有把韓國的入境標示卡去做調整的話"},{"start":7577.25,"end":7579.25,"text":"我們還要再有進一步的動作"},{"start":7579.25,"end":7580.25,"text":"是這樣嗎"},{"start":7580.25,"end":7581.25,"text":"是"},{"start":7581.25,"end":7582.25,"text":"那你們已經"},{"start":7582.25,"end":7583.25,"text":"我不問你"},{"start":7583.25,"end":7584.25,"text":"因為給你到時候"},{"start":7584.25,"end":7585.25,"text":"給你到時候時間宣布"},{"start":7585.25,"end":7587.25,"text":"這個我就不直接去問你"},{"start":7587.25,"end":7588.25,"text":"反正3月31號之後"},{"start":7588.25,"end":7589.25,"text":"我們就知道"},{"start":7589.25,"end":7590.25,"text":"但是總之"},{"start":7590.25,"end":7592.25,"text":"你們已經準備好"},{"start":7592.25,"end":7594.25,"text":"新一波的這個反制作為"},{"start":7594.25,"end":7595.25,"text":"等到3月31號"},{"start":7595.29,"end":7596.29,"text":"不如我們預期說"},{"start":7596.29,"end":7597.29,"text":"我們要推出來"},{"start":7597.29,"end":7598.29,"text":"是這個意思嗎"},{"start":7598.29,"end":7599.29,"text":"我們交涉中"},{"start":7599.29,"end":7600.29,"text":"當然我們相信"},{"start":7600.29,"end":7602.29,"text":"對方已經有表達"},{"start":7602.29,"end":7603.29,"text":"他有知道我們的意見"},{"start":7603.29,"end":7605.29,"text":"對方有沒有成功"},{"start":7605.29,"end":7606.29,"text":"我還不是很確定"},{"start":7606.29,"end":7607.29,"text":"你這個也不是現在"},{"start":7607.29,"end":7608.29,"text":"講說成功就成功"},{"start":7608.29,"end":7610.29,"text":"因為這個"},{"start":7610.29,"end":7611.29,"text":"所言勝事"},{"start":7611.29,"end":7612.29,"text":"因為這種外交的事情"},{"start":7612.29,"end":7613.29,"text":"都不是台灣人能夠學的"},{"start":7613.29,"end":7614.29,"text":"因為很難講"},{"start":7614.29,"end":7615.29,"text":"因為我們看一下"},{"start":7615.29,"end":7616.29,"text":"這個給大家看一下"},{"start":7616.29,"end":7617.29,"text":"這個是"},{"start":7617.29,"end":7619.29,"text":"今天我要來跟部長講"},{"start":7619.29,"end":7620.29,"text":"因為"},{"start":7620.29,"end":7622.29,"text":"雖然你是這個台灣GD"},{"start":7622.29,"end":7623.29,"text":"但你不見得有在看"},{"start":7623.33,"end":7624.33,"text":"不見得有在看"},{"start":7624.33,"end":7626.33,"text":"韓國的這個論壇"},{"start":7626.33,"end":7627.33,"text":"那這個"},{"start":7627.33,"end":7629.33,"text":"FM 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完全沒有打擊感"},{"start":7659.37,"end":7661.37,"text":"二 不是說南韓嗎"},{"start":7661.37,"end":7662.37,"text":"英文標示的是South Korea"},{"start":7662.37,"end":7663.37,"text":"那又怎樣"},{"start":7663.37,"end":7664.37,"text":"改了又怎樣"},{"start":7664.37,"end":7665.37,"text":"背景那些也改了嗎"},{"start":7665.37,"end":7666.37,"text":"他們發表的時候"},{"start":7666.37,"end":7668.37,"text":"不是也是中國台灣嗎"},{"start":7668.37,"end":7670.37,"text":"完全沒被戳到"},{"start":7670.37,"end":7671.37,"text":"干我什麼事"},{"start":7671.37,"end":7672.37,"text":"連對中國"},{"start":7672.37,"end":7674.37,"text":"都不敢坑一聲的傢伙們"},{"start":7674.37,"end":7675.37,"text":"那是一樣的道理"},{"start":7675.37,"end":7677.37,"text":"哈哈 你想做什麼就做什麼"},{"start":7677.37,"end":7679.37,"text":"就算是倒台灣那邊的傢伙"},{"start":7679.37,"end":7681.37,"text":"說到骨子裡還是中國"},{"start":7681.41,"end":7682.41,"text":"當天真爆發的時候"},{"start":7682.41,"end":7683.41,"text":"你們終究還是"},{"start":7683.41,"end":7684.41,"text":"得向別人尋求協助"},{"start":7684.41,"end":7685.41,"text":"但你們認為"},{"start":7685.41,"end":7687.41,"text":"你們現在的態度正確嗎"},{"start":7687.41,"end":7688.41,"text":"我念這些的意思"},{"start":7688.41,"end":7689.41,"text":"是說"},{"start":7689.41,"end":7691.41,"text":"我們在做這個調整之後"},{"start":7691.41,"end":7693.41,"text":"對於韓國的民眾來說"},{"start":7693.41,"end":7695.41,"text":"似乎對台灣"},{"start":7695.41,"end":7698.41,"text":"開始產生一些敵意"},{"start":7698.41,"end":7699.41,"text":"而且這一些的內容"},{"start":7699.41,"end":7700.41,"text":"不是說"},{"start":7700.41,"end":7701.41,"text":"這個是什麼"},{"start":7701.41,"end":7703.41,"text":"中國大陸的這個認知作戰"},{"start":7703.41,"end":7705.41,"text":"或是中共的人"},{"start":7705.41,"end":7706.41,"text":"然後在那邊寫"},{"start":7706.41,"end":7707.41,"text":"這個基本上韓國"},{"start":7707.41,"end":7708.41,"text":"很多民眾確實"},{"start":7708.41,"end":7709.41,"text":"就我們想嘛"},{"start":7709.45,"end":7710.45,"text":"你這樣"},{"start":7710.45,"end":7711.45,"text":"報告委員啊"},{"start":7711.45,"end":7712.45,"text":"這個是假的"},{"start":7712.45,"end":7714.45,"text":"韓國的民意我充分掌握"},{"start":7714.45,"end":7715.45,"text":"你意思說"},{"start":7715.45,"end":7716.45,"text":"這上面的人都是假的"},{"start":7716.45,"end":7717.45,"text":"韓國人跟新民旗下人都很支持"},{"start":7717.45,"end":7718.45,"text":"基於對等尊嚴"},{"start":7718.45,"end":7719.45,"text":"尊重台灣"},{"start":7719.45,"end":7720.45,"text":"用我們的名字"},{"start":7720.45,"end":7721.45,"text":"你怎麼知道"},{"start":7721.45,"end":7722.45,"text":"是誰告訴你"},{"start":7722.45,"end":7723.45,"text":"或是假的"},{"start":7723.45,"end":7724.45,"text":"我都有搜尋資料"},{"start":7724.45,"end":7726.45,"text":"後來中共大陸的大力的介入"},{"start":7726.45,"end":7728.45,"text":"開始發動網路作戰"},{"start":7728.45,"end":7729.45,"text":"認知戰"},{"start":7729.45,"end":7730.45,"text":"所以有一些啊"},{"start":7730.45,"end":7732.45,"text":"想要去扭曲"},{"start":7732.45,"end":7733.45,"text":"其實這件事情是"},{"start":7733.45,"end":7734.45,"text":"相對來講"},{"start":7734.45,"end":7736.45,"text":"其實是很清楚的"},{"start":7736.45,"end":7737.45,"text":"我們就是說"},{"start":7737.45,"end":7738.45,"text":"你幫我們"},{"start":7738.49,"end":7740.49,"text":"就是變成中國台灣"},{"start":7740.49,"end":7741.49,"text":"這個事情我們有意見嘛"},{"start":7741.49,"end":7743.49,"text":"所以基本上"},{"start":7743.49,"end":7744.49,"text":"大部分的人"},{"start":7744.49,"end":7745.49,"text":"都是支持的"},{"start":7745.49,"end":7746.49,"text":"包括韓國人"},{"start":7746.49,"end":7747.49,"text":"你怎麼知道大部分的人"},{"start":7747.49,"end":7748.49,"text":"都是支持的"},{"start":7748.49,"end":7749.49,"text":"南韓的人也都很支持"},{"start":7749.49,"end":7750.49,"text":"你怎麼知道他們都是支持的"},{"start":7750.49,"end":7752.49,"text":"我有在搜尋啊"},{"start":7752.49,"end":7753.49,"text":"我有大陸去啊"},{"start":7753.49,"end":7755.49,"text":"但是後來因為有一波"},{"start":7755.49,"end":7757.49,"text":"大量的認知作戰進來"},{"start":7757.49,"end":7758.49,"text":"所以你認為說"},{"start":7758.49,"end":7759.49,"text":"洗過了啦"},{"start":7759.49,"end":7760.49,"text":"所以你認為"},{"start":7760.49,"end":7761.49,"text":"因為不能講說是假的"},{"start":7761.49,"end":7762.49,"text":"因為這些人"},{"start":7762.49,"end":7763.49,"text":"他可能是真的有這個障"},{"start":7763.49,"end":7764.49,"text":"就是說"},{"start":7764.49,"end":7765.49,"text":"確實在論壇上"},{"start":7765.49,"end":7767.49,"text":"那個不講我要跟你講"},{"start":7767.53,"end":7768.53,"text":"確實在論壇上"},{"start":7768.53,"end":7769.53,"text":"有這樣的討論"},{"start":7769.53,"end":7770.53,"text":"但是你可以認為說"},{"start":7770.53,"end":7772.53,"text":"這一些討論是來自於"},{"start":7772.53,"end":7774.53,"text":"你認為是中國大陸"},{"start":7774.53,"end":7775.53,"text":"他們來做的認知作戰"},{"start":7775.53,"end":7776.53,"text":"他們有卡寶"},{"start":7776.53,"end":7777.53,"text":"那你不能講說"},{"start":7777.53,"end":7778.53,"text":"這個是假的"},{"start":7778.53,"end":7779.53,"text":"因為我今天不可能說"},{"start":7779.53,"end":7780.53,"text":"沒有出現東西"},{"start":7780.53,"end":7781.53,"text":"我自己做一個假的論壇"},{"start":7781.53,"end":7782.53,"text":"然後我來這邊"},{"start":7782.53,"end":7784.53,"text":"然後跟你實施一個假的東西"},{"start":7784.53,"end":7785.53,"text":"我只是問你說"},{"start":7785.53,"end":7787.53,"text":"為什麼他們會有"},{"start":7787.53,"end":7788.53,"text":"這樣子的一個討論"},{"start":7788.53,"end":7789.53,"text":"所以"},{"start":7789.53,"end":7790.53,"text":"部長您的意思是"},{"start":7790.53,"end":7791.53,"text":"你覺得"},{"start":7791.53,"end":7792.53,"text":"南韓的民眾"},{"start":7792.53,"end":7793.53,"text":"其實是支持"},{"start":7793.53,"end":7795.53,"text":"我們現在的反制作為"},{"start":7795.53,"end":7796.53,"text":"然後甚至"},{"start":7796.57,"end":7798.57,"text":"因此要求希望"},{"start":7798.57,"end":7800.57,"text":"他們的政府能夠去改善"},{"start":7800.57,"end":7802.57,"text":"他的電子入境卡的標示方式"},{"start":7802.57,"end":7803.57,"text":"而在網路上"},{"start":7803.57,"end":7805.57,"text":"這一些論壇上面"},{"start":7805.57,"end":7808.57,"text":"有不同意見的韓國"},{"start":7808.57,"end":7809.57,"text":"所謂的韓國民眾"},{"start":7809.57,"end":7812.57,"text":"是因為中共他們在"},{"start":7812.57,"end":7814.57,"text":"透過認知作戰介入"},{"start":7814.57,"end":7815.57,"text":"所以才會有的內容"},{"start":7815.57,"end":7816.57,"text":"是這樣"},{"start":7816.57,"end":7817.57,"text":"我跟委員簡單講"},{"start":7817.57,"end":7818.57,"text":"第一時間"},{"start":7818.57,"end":7819.57,"text":"以及我們先前掌握的資訊"},{"start":7819.57,"end":7820.57,"text":"其實大部分人是覺得"},{"start":7820.57,"end":7821.57,"text":"這件事情"},{"start":7821.57,"end":7823.57,"text":"就尊重台灣的立場"},{"start":7823.57,"end":7825.57,"text":"但是後來確實有介入"},{"start":7825.61,"end":7826.61,"text":"這個境外的"},{"start":7826.61,"end":7828.61,"text":"這個部分不是說"},{"start":7828.61,"end":7829.61,"text":"是假的"},{"start":7829.61,"end":7831.61,"text":"而是說他有網路作戰"},{"start":7831.61,"end":7832.61,"text":"在操作中"},{"start":7832.61,"end":7833.61,"text":"那最後就是"},{"start":7833.61,"end":7835.61,"text":"台灣的媒體也有很多"},{"start":7835.61,"end":7836.61,"text":"因為我跟你講"},{"start":7836.61,"end":7837.61,"text":"因為我比較實事求是"},{"start":7837.61,"end":7838.61,"text":"所以我是直接去"},{"start":7838.61,"end":7840.61,"text":"南韓的這個網站上面"},{"start":7840.61,"end":7842.61,"text":"去看他們的討論"},{"start":7842.61,"end":7843.61,"text":"但是在台灣"},{"start":7843.61,"end":7845.61,"text":"我們也有許多的媒體"},{"start":7845.61,"end":7846.61,"text":"他們的報導是這樣"},{"start":7846.61,"end":7848.61,"text":"比如我隨便找一篇"},{"start":7848.61,"end":7850.61,"text":"叫做外交部被嗆爆"},{"start":7850.61,"end":7852.61,"text":"反制韓國改稱南韓"},{"start":7852.61,"end":7854.61,"text":"遭韓網集體狂酸"},{"start":7854.65,"end":7855.65,"text":"自卑作祟"},{"start":7855.65,"end":7856.65,"text":"這些就是"},{"start":7856.65,"end":7858.65,"text":"台灣媒體的標題"},{"start":7858.65,"end":7859.65,"text":"那你有什麼"},{"start":7859.65,"end":7860.65,"text":"想要跟台灣媒體說的嗎"},{"start":7860.65,"end":7861.65,"text":"因為如果你認為"},{"start":7861.65,"end":7863.65,"text":"這個是一個中共的認知作戰"},{"start":7863.65,"end":7864.65,"text":"那台灣的媒體"},{"start":7864.65,"end":7865.65,"text":"也跟進報導的話"},{"start":7865.65,"end":7867.65,"text":"那是不是也被認知作戰"},{"start":7867.65,"end":7870.65,"text":"有時候不小心會被他利用"},{"start":7870.65,"end":7872.65,"text":"OK 所以你現在是呼籲大家"},{"start":7872.65,"end":7873.65,"text":"也相信媒體"},{"start":7873.65,"end":7876.65,"text":"他應該有判斷的這個能力"},{"start":7876.65,"end":7877.65,"text":"OK"},{"start":7877.65,"end":7879.65,"text":"好 因為這個論壇裡面"},{"start":7879.65,"end":7880.65,"text":"相關的這個"},{"start":7880.65,"end":7882.65,"text":"瀏覽人士其實超過49萬"},{"start":7882.69,"end":7884.69,"text":"那留言數是900多則"},{"start":7884.69,"end":7885.69,"text":"所以當然"},{"start":7885.69,"end":7887.69,"text":"我們台灣的媒體也會注意到"},{"start":7887.69,"end":7888.69,"text":"那可能也會去報導"},{"start":7888.69,"end":7889.69,"text":"或是引用"},{"start":7889.69,"end":7891.69,"text":"但是今天部長您的說法是說"},{"start":7891.69,"end":7893.69,"text":"所以我才在這裡講的比較"},{"start":7893.69,"end":7894.69,"text":"OK 好"},{"start":7894.69,"end":7895.69,"text":"所以您的說法就是說"},{"start":7895.69,"end":7897.69,"text":"你所了解的情況"},{"start":7897.69,"end":7899.69,"text":"這些人是少數中的少數"},{"start":7899.69,"end":7901.69,"text":"而且是受到中共他們的介入"},{"start":7901.69,"end":7903.69,"text":"所以才會有這樣的一個發言"},{"start":7903.69,"end":7906.69,"text":"應該是中共已經發動認知作戰"},{"start":7906.69,"end":7907.69,"text":"OK 好"},{"start":7907.69,"end":7908.69,"text":"但是不代表說"},{"start":7908.69,"end":7910.69,"text":"裡面的每一個留言"},{"start":7910.73,"end":7912.73,"text":"都是來自於這樣往事"},{"start":7912.73,"end":7914.73,"text":"好 那最後一個問題就是說"},{"start":7914.73,"end":7915.73,"text":"3月31號"},{"start":7915.73,"end":7919.73,"text":"如果韓國沒有去修改電子入境卡"},{"start":7919.73,"end":7922.73,"text":"我們會提出比什麼改成"},{"start":7922.73,"end":7923.73,"text":"Korea 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line"},{"start":8238.01,"end":8239.01,"text":"要特別的小心"},{"start":8239.01,"end":8240.01,"text":"就是我們盡量能夠事前溝通"},{"start":8240.01,"end":8241.01,"text":"這是一定的"},{"start":8241.01,"end":8242.01,"text":"第二個"},{"start":8242.01,"end":8243.01,"text":"我覺得第二條軸線"},{"start":8243.01,"end":8244.01,"text":"剛剛部長提到的"},{"start":8244.01,"end":8245.01,"text":"我覺得很重要"},{"start":8245.01,"end":8247.01,"text":"就是我們要去凸顯"},{"start":8247.01,"end":8248.01,"text":"也就是說"},{"start":8248.050000000001,"end":8249.050000000001,"text":"他的打壓已經成為了"},{"start":8249.050000000001,"end":8250.050000000001,"text":"一個既成事實"},{"start":8250.050000000001,"end":8252.050000000001,"text":"他就是一定會做這件事"},{"start":8252.050000000001,"end":8254.050000000001,"text":"我們也預判得了他做這件事"},{"start":8254.050000000001,"end":8256.050000000001,"text":"那我們不如讓大家知道"},{"start":8256.050000000001,"end":8257.050000000001,"text":"這件事情的發生"},{"start":8257.050000000001,"end":8258.050000000001,"text":"所以呢"},{"start":8258.050000000001,"end":8259.050000000001,"text":"因為讓大家知道"},{"start":8259.050000000001,"end":8260.050000000001,"text":"其實澳洲人民一樣"},{"start":8260.050000000001,"end":8261.050000000001,"text":"就是他們的人民"},{"start":8261.050000000001,"end":8262.050000000001,"text":"反而是會反感的"},{"start":8262.050000000001,"end":8265.050000000001,"text":"這是另外一種反向的操作"},{"start":8265.050000000001,"end":8266.050000000001,"text":"所以我們不是每一次"},{"start":8266.050000000001,"end":8267.050000000001,"text":"都一定要是跟他硬碰硬"},{"start":8267.050000000001,"end":8269.050000000001,"text":"但是我們後續的這一個處理"},{"start":8269.050000000001,"end":8272.050000000001,"text":"反而去凸顯這個中國的阿爸"},{"start":8272.050000000001,"end":8274.050000000001,"text":"我覺得這件事情是非常重要"},{"start":8274.050000000001,"end":8276.050000000001,"text":"那這個就拜託外交官"},{"start":8276.050000000001,"end":8277.050000000001,"text":"我們外交就是人人都是外交官"},{"start":8277.09,"end":8278.09,"text":"隨時隨地"},{"start":8278.09,"end":8279.09,"text":"一有機會"},{"start":8279.09,"end":8280.09,"text":"當然為台灣發誓"},{"start":8280.09,"end":8282.09,"text":"但是也要有智慧的處理"},{"start":8282.09,"end":8284.09,"text":"所以這個之後就拜託外交部"},{"start":8284.09,"end":8285.09,"text":"能夠協調權衡"},{"start":8285.09,"end":8287.09,"text":"當然大家都會期待我們政府"},{"start":8287.09,"end":8290.09,"text":"但是我們就大家跟各界"},{"start":8290.09,"end":8292.09,"text":"一起來因應"},{"start":8292.09,"end":8293.09,"text":"那剛剛也是"},{"start":8293.09,"end":8295.09,"text":"就是大家都很關心"},{"start":8295.09,"end":8296.09,"text":"就是說這一個"},{"start":8296.09,"end":8297.09,"text":"目前來講韓國"},{"start":8297.09,"end":8299.09,"text":"這個以前其實在去年"},{"start":8299.09,"end":8301.09,"text":"就已經開始這樣的事情"},{"start":8301.09,"end":8302.09,"text":"我看媒體朋友"},{"start":8302.09,"end":8303.09,"text":"其實也問過很多次"},{"start":8303.09,"end":8305.09,"text":"那我們在每次回答的時候"},{"start":8305.09,"end":8306.09,"text":"也都是告訴大家"},{"start":8306.130000000001,"end":8308.130000000001,"text":"媒體說在交涉當中"},{"start":8308.130000000001,"end":8310.130000000001,"text":"就是我們畢竟不想要去"},{"start":8310.130000000001,"end":8312.130000000001,"text":"破壞兩個國家的外交關係"},{"start":8312.130000000001,"end":8314.130000000001,"text":"那這個因為丹麥"},{"start":8314.130000000001,"end":8316.130000000001,"text":"這一個政府"},{"start":8316.130000000001,"end":8318.130000000001,"text":"核發給台灣人的這個居留證"},{"start":8318.130000000001,"end":8321.130000000001,"text":"那這個也出現了這個矮化的現象"},{"start":8321.130000000001,"end":8322.130000000001,"text":"那因為剛剛韓國"},{"start":8322.130000000001,"end":8323.130000000001,"text":"已經被討論很久"},{"start":8323.130000000001,"end":8324.130000000001,"text":"我想知道"},{"start":8324.130000000001,"end":8326.130000000001,"text":"就是在其他國家的情形"},{"start":8326.130000000001,"end":8328.130000000001,"text":"比如說像剛剛提到丹麥的情形"},{"start":8328.130000000001,"end":8329.130000000001,"text":"我們目前的狀況"},{"start":8329.130000000001,"end":8330.130000000001,"text":"處理的狀況如何"},{"start":8330.130000000001,"end":8331.130000000001,"text":"我想丹麥政府"},{"start":8331.130000000001,"end":8332.130000000001,"text":"也不希望格林蘭"},{"start":8332.130000000001,"end":8333.130000000001,"text":"變成是美國的"},{"start":8333.130000000001,"end":8335.130000000001,"text":"那為什麼"},{"start":8335.17,"end":8337.17,"text":"那為什麼要把台灣變成中國的"},{"start":8337.17,"end":8339.17,"text":"所以我們的交涉很有道理"},{"start":8339.17,"end":8340.17,"text":"他們是躲起來"},{"start":8340.17,"end":8343.17,"text":"就是他們有一個外交官"},{"start":8343.17,"end":8344.17,"text":"很堅持"},{"start":8344.17,"end":8345.17,"text":"其實他們政府"},{"start":8345.17,"end":8346.17,"text":"大部分人都覺得"},{"start":8346.17,"end":8347.17,"text":"國會議員也覺得"},{"start":8347.17,"end":8348.17,"text":"為什麼要這樣子"},{"start":8348.17,"end":8349.17,"text":"我看丹麥人民的反應"},{"start":8349.17,"end":8351.17,"text":"也是應該是如此才對啊"},{"start":8351.17,"end":8352.17,"text":"所以他反而可能有一些"},{"start":8352.17,"end":8355.17,"text":"個別的外交官"},{"start":8355.17,"end":8357.17,"text":"可能做出相關的決定"},{"start":8357.17,"end":8358.17,"text":"我們就要給他壓力"},{"start":8358.17,"end":8360.17,"text":"所以我們也去交涉G7"},{"start":8360.17,"end":8361.17,"text":"很多國家也都覺得"},{"start":8361.17,"end":8362.17,"text":"這個就是歐盟"},{"start":8362.17,"end":8363.17,"text":"大部分的國家都很正常的"},{"start":8363.17,"end":8364.17,"text":"為什麼你要去給人家"},{"start":8364.210000000001,"end":8366.210000000001,"text":"改成川啊 瓜號台灣"},{"start":8366.210000000001,"end":8369.210000000001,"text":"或什麼這個居留證"},{"start":8369.210000000001,"end":8370.210000000001,"text":"就突然去改"},{"start":8370.210000000001,"end":8372.210000000001,"text":"你的依據是什麼"},{"start":8372.210000000001,"end":8374.210000000001,"text":"就是亂解釋一通"},{"start":8374.210000000001,"end":8375.210000000001,"text":"現在一中原則"},{"start":8375.210000000001,"end":8377.210000000001,"text":"已經都在北京亂解釋"},{"start":8377.210000000001,"end":8379.210000000001,"text":"大家你看2758號決議"},{"start":8379.210000000001,"end":8380.210000000001,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":8380.210000000001,"end":8381.210000000001,"text":"人家很多國家"},{"start":8381.210000000001,"end":8383.210000000001,"text":"歐盟包括G7都不講"},{"start":8383.210000000001,"end":8384.210000000001,"text":"現在連一中政策都不講"},{"start":8384.210000000001,"end":8386.210000000001,"text":"因為會被混淆成一中原則"},{"start":8386.210000000001,"end":8389.210000000001,"text":"一中不一中是中國的事"},{"start":8389.210000000001,"end":8391.210000000001,"text":"我們台灣就是台灣"},{"start":8391.210000000001,"end":8392.210000000001,"text":"這是川普總統講的"},{"start":8392.25,"end":8393.25,"text":"台灣是台灣"},{"start":8393.25,"end":8394.25,"text":"所以我是覺得"},{"start":8394.25,"end":8396.25,"text":"為什麼用台灣有罪"},{"start":8398.67,"end":8399.67,"text":"用台灣不行嗎"},{"start":8400.67,"end":8402.67,"text":"台灣是個很中性的名詞"},{"start":8402.67,"end":8404.67,"text":"所以我們已經退無可退"},{"start":8404.67,"end":8405.67,"text":"其實在這個情況之下"},{"start":8405.67,"end":8407.67,"text":"我們得到國際的支持"},{"start":8407.67,"end":8408.67,"text":"因為每個人"},{"start":8408.67,"end":8410.67,"text":"很自然都會講台灣"},{"start":8410.67,"end":8412.67,"text":"你講全是台北就很奇怪"},{"start":8412.67,"end":8413.67,"text":"但是因為有些國際主持"},{"start":8413.67,"end":8414.67,"text":"我們參加用那個名詞"},{"start":8414.67,"end":8417.67,"text":"可是你如果要擴張解釋"},{"start":8417.95,"end":8418.95,"text":"你們都不能出現"},{"start":8418.95,"end":8421.95,"text":"連台灣大學也不能出現嗎"},{"start":8421.95,"end":8423.95,"text":"Nation也不行"},{"start":8423.95,"end":8424.95,"text":"台灣也不行"},{"start":8424.95,"end":8425.95,"text":"那就變成University"},{"start":8425.95,"end":8426.95,"text":"很奇怪"},{"start":8426.95,"end":8427.95,"text":"誇張啦"},{"start":8427.95,"end":8429.95,"text":"全世界都認為說"},{"start":8429.95,"end":8431.95,"text":"它就是霸凌中共"},{"start":8431.95,"end":8432.95,"text":"因為久了之後"},{"start":8432.95,"end":8433.95,"text":"大家都"},{"start":8433.95,"end":8434.95,"text":"就像俄羅斯"},{"start":8434.95,"end":8436.95,"text":"兩頭請得寸進尺"},{"start":8436.95,"end":8438.95,"text":"今天就是打了"},{"start":8438.95,"end":8439.95,"text":"烏克蘭下一國要打哪裡"},{"start":8439.95,"end":8441.95,"text":"中國要欺負台灣"},{"start":8441.95,"end":8442.95,"text":"霸凌台灣"},{"start":8442.95,"end":8443.95,"text":"下一國菲律賓嗎"},{"start":8443.95,"end":8444.95,"text":"日本嗎"},{"start":8444.95,"end":8446.95,"text":"所以大家現在都知道"},{"start":8446.990000000002,"end":8447.990000000002,"text":"這個問題不是在台灣"},{"start":8447.990000000002,"end":8448.990000000002,"text":"在中國"},{"start":8448.990000000002,"end":8449.990000000002,"text":"我相信這個部長"},{"start":8449.990000000002,"end":8450.990000000002,"text":"這樣的一個態度"},{"start":8450.990000000002,"end":8451.990000000002,"text":"在國際上"},{"start":8451.990000000002,"end":8452.990000000002,"text":"我認為是非常重要"},{"start":8452.990000000002,"end":8453.990000000002,"text":"那我們長久以來"},{"start":8453.990000000002,"end":8455.990000000002,"text":"這一個中國的打壓"},{"start":8455.990000000002,"end":8456.990000000002,"text":"我們大概是已經"},{"start":8456.990000000002,"end":8458.990000000002,"text":"忍受了非常的久"},{"start":8458.990000000002,"end":8459.990000000002,"text":"目前世界各國"},{"start":8459.990000000002,"end":8460.990000000002,"text":"慢慢對這件事情"},{"start":8460.990000000002,"end":8461.990000000002,"text":"尤其你看在這個"},{"start":8461.990000000002,"end":8462.990000000002,"text":"總和外交的狀況之下"},{"start":8462.990000000002,"end":8464.990000000002,"text":"認知的人越來越多"},{"start":8464.990000000002,"end":8465.990000000002,"text":"我們在之前質詢的時候"},{"start":8465.990000000002,"end":8466.990000000002,"text":"也一直不斷的強調"},{"start":8466.990000000002,"end":8467.990000000002,"text":"我們除了面對"},{"start":8467.990000000002,"end":8468.990000000002,"text":"這些什麼智庫"},{"start":8468.990000000002,"end":8469.990000000002,"text":"政府官員之外"},{"start":8469.990000000002,"end":8470.990000000002,"text":"人民真的很重要"},{"start":8470.990000000002,"end":8472.990000000002,"text":"現在很多國際上的人民"},{"start":8472.990000000002,"end":8474.990000000002,"text":"對這個是有認知的"},{"start":8475.03,"end":8477.03,"text":"當然在越來越多人站起來"},{"start":8477.03,"end":8479.03,"text":"這個反作用力一定還是在"},{"start":8479.03,"end":8481.03,"text":"本來很習慣於中國打壓的"},{"start":8481.03,"end":8483.03,"text":"跟中國在那邊好來好去的"},{"start":8483.03,"end":8484.03,"text":"有利益交換的"},{"start":8484.03,"end":8485.03,"text":"這些一定都還存在"},{"start":8485.03,"end":8486.03,"text":"而這一些人"},{"start":8486.03,"end":8487.03,"text":"還是會不斷的冒出來"},{"start":8487.03,"end":8488.03,"text":"那我們用這樣的"},{"start":8488.03,"end":8489.03,"text":"一個堅決的態度"},{"start":8489.03,"end":8490.03,"text":"也就是要告訴他們"},{"start":8490.03,"end":8491.03,"text":"我們是不會退讓的"},{"start":8491.03,"end":8493.03,"text":"謝謝部長這樣的一個態度"},{"start":8493.03,"end":8495.03,"text":"接下來還有一件事情"},{"start":8495.03,"end":8497.03,"text":"就是剛剛前面"},{"start":8497.03,"end":8498.03,"text":"應該很多委員都有問到"},{"start":8498.03,"end":8499.03,"text":"就是這一次"},{"start":8499.03,"end":8501.03,"text":"我們在杜拜"},{"start":8501.03,"end":8504.03,"text":"我們去做這些相關的協助"},{"start":8504.070000000002,"end":8505.070000000002,"text":"反國"},{"start":8505.070000000002,"end":8506.070000000002,"text":"這個部長應該也知道"},{"start":8506.070000000002,"end":8507.070000000002,"text":"中國在這邊做手腳"},{"start":8507.070000000002,"end":8509.070000000002,"text":"就跟關係機場那時候一模一樣"},{"start":8509.070000000002,"end":8512.070000000002,"text":"他想要去製造一些假資訊"},{"start":8512.070000000002,"end":8513.070000000002,"text":"等等之類的"},{"start":8513.070000000002,"end":8514.070000000002,"text":"我認為這一次"},{"start":8514.070000000002,"end":8516.070000000002,"text":"政府的運隊是很快的"},{"start":8516.070000000002,"end":8517.070000000002,"text":"比如說一開始最早的"},{"start":8517.070000000002,"end":8519.070000000002,"text":"有多少人要協助"},{"start":8519.070000000002,"end":8520.070000000002,"text":"請他們填表單"},{"start":8520.070000000002,"end":8521.070000000002,"text":"後來的關懷卡"},{"start":8521.070000000002,"end":8523.070000000002,"text":"我覺得這個部分"},{"start":8523.070000000002,"end":8525.070000000002,"text":"看起來是應對得當"},{"start":8525.070000000002,"end":8526.070000000002,"text":"我現在擔心的是"},{"start":8526.070000000002,"end":8528.070000000002,"text":"我一看到有這一個"},{"start":8528.070000000002,"end":8529.070000000002,"text":"這一個也是當時的這個"},{"start":8529.070000000002,"end":8531.070000000002,"text":"僑胞"},{"start":8531.070000000002,"end":8533.070000000002,"text":"他有出來拍了一部影片"},{"start":8533.11,"end":8534.11,"text":"這部影片現在"},{"start":8534.11,"end":8536.11,"text":"這個也是近30萬的觀看"},{"start":8536.11,"end":8538.11,"text":"他在指出一個問題"},{"start":8538.11,"end":8539.11,"text":"就是說"},{"start":8539.11,"end":8540.11,"text":"當時這一個"},{"start":8540.11,"end":8542.11,"text":"我們的大使館的人員"},{"start":8542.11,"end":8544.11,"text":"在凌晨4點的時候"},{"start":8544.11,"end":8545.11,"text":"來迎接國人"},{"start":8545.11,"end":8546.11,"text":"那就可以看到"},{"start":8546.11,"end":8548.11,"text":"下方這個畫面"},{"start":8548.11,"end":8550.11,"text":"這個是華視新聞的畫面"},{"start":8550.11,"end":8551.11,"text":"裡面就有講到"},{"start":8551.11,"end":8552.11,"text":"說這一個我們的僑民"},{"start":8552.11,"end":8554.11,"text":"也非常的開心"},{"start":8554.11,"end":8556.11,"text":"說謝謝大使"},{"start":8556.11,"end":8558.11,"text":"給予台灣人溫暖的照顧"},{"start":8558.11,"end":8560.11,"text":"看起來是很好的一件事情"},{"start":8560.11,"end":8561.11,"text":"結果"},{"start":8561.150000000001,"end":8563.150000000001,"text":"結果在另外一台新聞"},{"start":8563.150000000001,"end":8564.150000000001,"text":"他就發現"},{"start":8564.150000000001,"end":8565.150000000001,"text":"一樣的畫面"},{"start":8565.150000000001,"end":8566.150000000001,"text":"講得完全不一樣"},{"start":8566.150000000001,"end":8567.150000000001,"text":"另外一個畫面"},{"start":8567.150000000001,"end":8569.150000000001,"text":"在右邊叫受購外交部"},{"start":8569.150000000001,"end":8571.150000000001,"text":"然後這一個淚翻"},{"start":8571.150000000001,"end":8572.150000000001,"text":"這一個"},{"start":8572.150000000001,"end":8574.150000000001,"text":"逃難之旅終於落幕"},{"start":8574.150000000001,"end":8576.150000000001,"text":"所以這個受購外交部"},{"start":8576.150000000001,"end":8578.150000000001,"text":"這一個很明顯就是"},{"start":8578.150000000001,"end":8580.150000000001,"text":"明明就是同樣的一個場合"},{"start":8580.150000000001,"end":8582.150000000001,"text":"同樣的一個畫面"},{"start":8582.150000000001,"end":8583.150000000001,"text":"但我們的新聞"},{"start":8583.150000000001,"end":8585.150000000001,"text":"呈現變得完全不同"},{"start":8585.150000000001,"end":8586.150000000001,"text":"那我說當然"},{"start":8586.150000000001,"end":8588.150000000001,"text":"新聞有它新聞的觀點"},{"start":8588.150000000001,"end":8589.150000000001,"text":"台灣各式各樣"},{"start":8589.150000000001,"end":8590.150000000001,"text":"什麼樣的新聞都有"},{"start":8590.19,"end":8591.19,"text":"有些跟中國"},{"start":8591.19,"end":8592.19,"text":"站在一起的新聞"},{"start":8592.19,"end":8593.19,"text":"是多得很"},{"start":8593.19,"end":8595.19,"text":"但是新聞還是要根基於事實"},{"start":8595.19,"end":8596.19,"text":"所以我想知道"},{"start":8596.19,"end":8598.19,"text":"當時的事實到底是什麼"},{"start":8598.19,"end":8600.19,"text":"報告員就是我們的"},{"start":8600.19,"end":8603.19,"text":"駐外的管束的外交官"},{"start":8603.19,"end":8605.19,"text":"即使沒有外交特權"},{"start":8605.19,"end":8607.19,"text":"我們都是拼命"},{"start":8607.19,"end":8609.19,"text":"在就是幫助國人"},{"start":8609.19,"end":8611.19,"text":"那有些資訊怎麼樣去獲得"},{"start":8611.19,"end":8612.19,"text":"因為發生戰爭"},{"start":8612.19,"end":8613.19,"text":"都不是我們希望看到"},{"start":8613.19,"end":8614.19,"text":"可是這時候"},{"start":8614.19,"end":8615.19,"text":"一個人當然"},{"start":8615.19,"end":8617.19,"text":"我們政府有政府在"},{"start":8617.19,"end":8618.19,"text":"這個是大家比較安心"},{"start":8618.230000000001,"end":8619.230000000001,"text":"可是每一個人"},{"start":8619.230000000001,"end":8621.230000000001,"text":"怎麼樣去處置這個資訊"},{"start":8621.230000000001,"end":8622.230000000001,"text":"我們能夠把資訊網"},{"start":8622.230000000001,"end":8623.230000000001,"text":"先建立起來"},{"start":8623.230000000001,"end":8625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我再跟委員回應一下"},{"start":8784.45,"end":8786.45,"text":"我們外交部有很大改善的空間"},{"start":8786.45,"end":8787.45,"text":"我們要不斷去精進"},{"start":8787.45,"end":8789.45,"text":"因為有時候會發生事情"},{"start":8789.45,"end":8790.45,"text":"但是我們有做的也要會講"},{"start":8790.45,"end":8791.45,"text":"剛剛委員有提到"},{"start":8791.490000000002,"end":8792.490000000002,"text":"因為這個也會涉及到"},{"start":8792.490000000002,"end":8794.490000000002,"text":"我們後續再比較好做"},{"start":8794.490000000002,"end":8796.490000000002,"text":"那這一個發生這種"},{"start":8798.68,"end":8799.68,"text":"危機啦"},{"start":8799.68,"end":8802.68,"text":"這種第一時間每一個人的情況"},{"start":8802.68,"end":8804.68,"text":"我們怎麼樣去掌握資訊"},{"start":8804.68,"end":8805.68,"text":"那這個我是說"},{"start":8805.68,"end":8808.68,"text":"我想只要是在在地"},{"start":8808.68,"end":8809.68,"text":"不管經商留學"},{"start":8809.68,"end":8810.68,"text":"或已經入籍的"},{"start":8810.68,"end":8812.68,"text":"我相信幾乎"},{"start":8812.68,"end":8814.68,"text":"我不敢講百分之百"},{"start":8814.68,"end":8815.68,"text":"可能90以上"},{"start":8815.68,"end":8817.68,"text":"我們都有建立聯絡"},{"start":8817.68,"end":8818.68,"text":"所以在第一個時間"},{"start":8818.68,"end":8820.68,"text":"像我們的這些外館"},{"start":8820.68,"end":8821.68,"text":"都馬上就會發訊"},{"start":8821.68,"end":8822.68,"text":"當然有時候通訊不行"},{"start":8822.68,"end":8824.68,"text":"那會有一些要去解決的問題"},{"start":8824.68,"end":8826.68,"text":"可是旅客啦"},{"start":8826.68,"end":8827.68,"text":"過境有時候怎麼樣會是"},{"start":8827.720000000001,"end":8829.720000000001,"text":"能夠對他們有幫助"},{"start":8829.720000000001,"end":8830.720000000001,"text":"而他們也能夠幫助自己"},{"start":8830.720000000001,"end":8833.720000000001,"text":"我們一起來面對這種危機"},{"start":8833.720000000001,"end":8834.720000000001,"text":"然後每一個人都可以"},{"start":8834.720000000001,"end":8836.720000000001,"text":"就是平安"},{"start":8837.720000000001,"end":8838.720000000001,"text":"好謝謝部長"},{"start":8838.720000000001,"end":8840.720000000001,"text":"那後續我再下次的這個業報"},{"start":8840.720000000001,"end":8841.720000000001,"text":"我可能再來詢問"},{"start":8841.720000000001,"end":8842.720000000001,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":8842.720000000001,"end":8843.720000000001,"text":"謝謝部長"},{"start":8844.35,"end":8845.390000000001,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":8845.92,"end":8847.960000000001,"text":"我們接下來"},{"start":8849.38,"end":8851.42,"text":"王安祥委員上台諮詢"},{"start":8859.04,"end":8860.04,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":8860.04,"end":8861.04,"text":"有請部長"},{"start":8861.82,"end":8862.86,"text":"請聯帳"},{"start":8870.61,"end":8871.650000000001,"text":"部長早"},{"start":8874.630000000001,"end":8875.630000000001,"text":"我想"},{"start":8875.630000000001,"end":8876.630000000001,"text":"因為我從學界來"},{"start":8876.630000000001,"end":8877.630000000001,"text":"其實我都了解"},{"start":8877.630000000001,"end":8878.630000000001,"text":"在學術界"},{"start":8878.630000000001,"end":8879.630000000001,"text":"就official的部分"},{"start":8879.630000000001,"end":8881.630000000001,"text":"其實外交非常非常困難"},{"start":8881.630000000001,"end":8883.630000000001,"text":"包括我們協助一些"},{"start":8883.630000000001,"end":8886.630000000001,"text":"像這個NGO的這個組織的參與"},{"start":8886.630000000001,"end":8887.630000000001,"text":"其實也面臨很多困難"},{"start":8887.630000000001,"end":8888.630000000001,"text":"所以我今天"},{"start":8888.630000000001,"end":8890.630000000001,"text":"大概就想要特別提到一下"},{"start":8890.630000000001,"end":8891.630000000001,"text":"這個所謂的cultural"},{"start":8891.630000000001,"end":8892.630000000001,"text":"文化外交的部分"},{"start":8892.630000000001,"end":8894.630000000001,"text":"就我的經驗來說"},{"start":8894.630000000001,"end":8895.630000000001,"text":"我覺得這個部分是台灣"},{"start":8895.630000000001,"end":8896.630000000001,"text":"非常非常強的一個部分"},{"start":8896.630000000001,"end":8898.630000000001,"text":"所以希望台灣能夠利用"},{"start":8898.630000000001,"end":8899.630000000001,"text":"這個文化外交"},{"start":8899.630000000001,"end":8901.630000000001,"text":"能夠勇敢的走出去"},{"start":8901.630000000001,"end":8903.630000000001,"text":"而且就我接觸很多外國人"},{"start":8903.67,"end":8904.67,"text":"他們其實都說"},{"start":8904.67,"end":8905.67,"text":"非常非常喜歡台灣"},{"start":8905.67,"end":8907.67,"text":"我想部長應該認同這個"},{"start":8907.67,"end":8909.67,"text":"我們都應該好好發文化外交"},{"start":8909.67,"end":8910.67,"text":"是"},{"start":8910.67,"end":8912.67,"text":"因為前幾天這個總職局"},{"start":8912.67,"end":8913.67,"text":"也有韓委員提到"},{"start":8913.67,"end":8914.67,"text":"就是有關於這個"},{"start":8914.67,"end":8915.67,"text":"Taiwan 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area"},{"start":9057.87,"end":9058.87,"text":"是一個非常重要的"},{"start":9058.87,"end":9060.87,"text":"那因為疫情的關係就沒落了"},{"start":9060.87,"end":9062.87,"text":"我們認為這是一個"},{"start":9062.87,"end":9063.87,"text":"很好的可以共同開發的案子"},{"start":9063.87,"end":9065.87,"text":"對他們現在的態度也覺得"},{"start":9065.87,"end":9067.87,"text":"媒體的報導好像對我們有一些"},{"start":9067.87,"end":9069.87,"text":"都停留在先前的階段"},{"start":9069.87,"end":9071.87,"text":"因為他們那個市長"},{"start":9071.87,"end":9072.87,"text":"寫了很多信"},{"start":9072.87,"end":9074.87,"text":"當然有一些單位並沒有去回"},{"start":9074.910000000002,"end":9075.910000000002,"text":"回復的很好"},{"start":9075.910000000002,"end":9077.910000000002,"text":"那我是從去年開始"},{"start":9077.910000000002,"end":9078.910000000002,"text":"就積極的"},{"start":9078.910000000002,"end":9080.910000000002,"text":"跟他們希望說共同來開發"},{"start":9080.910000000002,"end":9082.910000000002,"text":"是 所以部長說這個問題"},{"start":9082.910000000002,"end":9083.910000000002,"text":"其實已經解決了"},{"start":9083.910000000002,"end":9084.910000000002,"text":"就是他們要跟我們"},{"start":9084.910000000002,"end":9085.910000000002,"text":"這樣自播放區"},{"start":9085.910000000002,"end":9087.910000000002,"text":"雙方已經有一個共識"},{"start":9087.910000000002,"end":9089.910000000002,"text":"要來做都市更新"},{"start":9089.910000000002,"end":9090.910000000002,"text":"是"},{"start":9090.910000000002,"end":9091.910000000002,"text":"來一起開發"},{"start":9091.910000000002,"end":9092.910000000002,"text":"好 我們也很樂見"},{"start":9092.910000000002,"end":9093.910000000002,"text":"接下來我們就"},{"start":9093.910000000002,"end":9094.910000000002,"text":"剛剛我一直提到"},{"start":9094.910000000002,"end":9095.910000000002,"text":"這個文化的軟實力"},{"start":9095.910000000002,"end":9097.910000000002,"text":"我認為台灣的最強的部分"},{"start":9097.910000000002,"end":9099.910000000002,"text":"那這個部長是不是"},{"start":9099.910000000002,"end":9100.910000000002,"text":"可以跟大家藉這個機會"},{"start":9100.910000000002,"end":9101.910000000002,"text":"說一下"},{"start":9101.910000000002,"end":9102.910000000002,"text":"大概部長覺得這個"},{"start":9102.910000000002,"end":9103.910000000002,"text":"我們文化外交"},{"start":9103.95,"end":9104.95,"text":"這個我們現在最強的"},{"start":9104.95,"end":9105.95,"text":"文化實力是什麼"},{"start":9105.95,"end":9106.95,"text":"文化外交是總的外交"},{"start":9106.95,"end":9107.95,"text":"非常重要"},{"start":9107.95,"end":9109.95,"text":"特別是對於民主國家"},{"start":9109.95,"end":9110.95,"text":"他們很尊重"},{"start":9110.95,"end":9112.95,"text":"甚至喜愛多元的文化"},{"start":9112.95,"end":9113.95,"text":"所以你看我有個"},{"start":9113.95,"end":9114.95,"text":"歐洲專案之後"},{"start":9114.95,"end":9116.95,"text":"你看為什麼故宮"},{"start":9116.95,"end":9117.95,"text":"到捷克去展"},{"start":9117.95,"end":9119.95,"text":"到法國去展"},{"start":9119.95,"end":9121.95,"text":"那我們的部門的官員"},{"start":9121.95,"end":9122.95,"text":"也可以到"},{"start":9122.95,"end":9123.95,"text":"因為對他們來講"},{"start":9123.95,"end":9124.95,"text":"這個就是一個文化交流"},{"start":9124.95,"end":9125.95,"text":"甚至到了維也納"},{"start":9125.95,"end":9128.95,"text":"我也可以去愛樂廳去聽"},{"start":9128.95,"end":9130.95,"text":"然後到了義大利羅馬"},{"start":9130.95,"end":9132.95,"text":"一樣我們幽靈神社"},{"start":9132.990000000002,"end":9135.990000000002,"text":"幽靈神社的這個表演"},{"start":9135.990000000002,"end":9136.990000000002,"text":"我意思是說"},{"start":9136.990000000002,"end":9139.990000000002,"text":"文化是世界可以說共同與一"},{"start":9139.990000000002,"end":9141.990000000002,"text":"而且文化強調的是多樣性"},{"start":9141.990000000002,"end":9142.990000000002,"text":"多元文化嘛"},{"start":9142.990000000002,"end":9144.990000000002,"text":"大家互相欣賞"},{"start":9144.990000000002,"end":9145.990000000002,"text":"只有中共"},{"start":9145.990000000002,"end":9148.990000000002,"text":"他是沒有允許多元文化"},{"start":9148.990000000002,"end":9149.990000000002,"text":"所以用文化外交"},{"start":9149.990000000002,"end":9151.990000000002,"text":"對比中國現在的"},{"start":9151.990000000002,"end":9152.990000000002,"text":"這種戰狼外交"},{"start":9152.990000000002,"end":9153.990000000002,"text":"我們最走的出去"},{"start":9153.990000000002,"end":9155.990000000002,"text":"所以去年在歐洲專案"},{"start":9155.990000000002,"end":9156.990000000002,"text":"我們繳文化界"},{"start":9156.990000000002,"end":9157.990000000002,"text":"包括文化部"},{"start":9157.990000000002,"end":9158.990000000002,"text":"一起來整合"},{"start":9158.990000000002,"end":9160.990000000002,"text":"我們既然有一些表演團體"},{"start":9161.03,"end":9163.03,"text":"甚至金管會現在也發函"},{"start":9163.03,"end":9165.03,"text":"我們的企業補助"},{"start":9165.03,"end":9167.03,"text":"文化團體出國表演"},{"start":9167.03,"end":9169.03,"text":"也可以適用於ESG"},{"start":9169.03,"end":9170.03,"text":"可以抵稅"},{"start":9170.03,"end":9172.03,"text":"再來就是文化外交"},{"start":9172.03,"end":9173.03,"text":"我們那個主題叫"},{"start":9173.03,"end":9175.03,"text":"From Tech to Culture"},{"start":9175.03,"end":9177.03,"text":"Taiwan Leads the Future"},{"start":9177.03,"end":9180.03,"text":"台灣不是只有在德國半導體的投資"},{"start":9180.03,"end":9181.03,"text":"我們的文化"},{"start":9181.03,"end":9182.03,"text":"其實跟他們是互補的"},{"start":9182.03,"end":9183.03,"text":"謝謝部長"},{"start":9183.03,"end":9184.03,"text":"因為時間的關係"},{"start":9184.03,"end":9185.03,"text":"所以剛剛沒有錯"},{"start":9185.03,"end":9186.03,"text":"部長一直在強調"},{"start":9186.03,"end":9187.03,"text":"所謂的多元"},{"start":9187.03,"end":9188.03,"text":"所以很多"},{"start":9188.03,"end":9189.03,"text":"其實台灣現在很多"},{"start":9189.070000000002,"end":9190.070000000002,"text":"台灣現在很多"},{"start":9190.070000000002,"end":9191.070000000002,"text":"對外國人的印象"},{"start":9191.070000000002,"end":9192.070000000002,"text":"其實很多"},{"start":9192.070000000002,"end":9193.070000000002,"text":"我們傳統的一些東西"},{"start":9193.070000000002,"end":9194.070000000002,"text":"像一些宮廟"},{"start":9194.070000000002,"end":9196.070000000002,"text":"像一些我們的這個"},{"start":9196.070000000002,"end":9198.070000000002,"text":"比較傳統的東西"},{"start":9198.070000000002,"end":9199.070000000002,"text":"都是 對"},{"start":9199.070000000002,"end":9200.070000000002,"text":"所以我覺得"},{"start":9200.070000000002,"end":9202.070000000002,"text":"因為台灣現在很容易"},{"start":9202.070000000002,"end":9204.070000000002,"text":"就被扣上統戰的概念"},{"start":9204.070000000002,"end":9205.070000000002,"text":"這種紅帽子"},{"start":9205.070000000002,"end":9206.070000000002,"text":"所以我也是希望"},{"start":9206.070000000002,"end":9207.070000000002,"text":"就是我們"},{"start":9207.070000000002,"end":9209.070000000002,"text":"有一個很清楚的概念"},{"start":9209.070000000002,"end":9211.070000000002,"text":"怎麼樣區隔"},{"start":9211.070000000002,"end":9213.070000000002,"text":"我們跟這個對岸"},{"start":9213.070000000002,"end":9214.070000000002,"text":"這樣子的一個文化差異"},{"start":9214.070000000002,"end":9215.070000000002,"text":"這幾年其實台灣"},{"start":9215.070000000002,"end":9216.070000000002,"text":"有發展自己的"},{"start":9216.070000000002,"end":9217.070000000002,"text":"一個模式"},{"start":9217.070000000002,"end":9218.070000000002,"text":"我覺得都已經"},{"start":9218.11,"end":9219.11,"text":"非常不一樣"},{"start":9219.11,"end":9221.11,"text":"這個問很多來台灣的外國人"},{"start":9221.11,"end":9222.11,"text":"問他們要不要改學"},{"start":9222.11,"end":9223.11,"text":"他們就告訴我們說"},{"start":9223.11,"end":9224.11,"text":"他們喜歡台灣"},{"start":9224.11,"end":9225.11,"text":"這樣子的一個"},{"start":9225.11,"end":9226.11,"text":"有理"},{"start":9226.11,"end":9227.11,"text":"非常非常"},{"start":9227.11,"end":9229.11,"text":"而且先驅傳統的部分"},{"start":9229.11,"end":9230.11,"text":"部長應該同意"},{"start":9230.11,"end":9231.11,"text":"我這樣的說法"},{"start":9231.11,"end":9232.11,"text":"非常同意"},{"start":9232.11,"end":9233.11,"text":"他們會愛上台灣"},{"start":9233.11,"end":9234.11,"text":"大部分都會體驗"},{"start":9234.11,"end":9235.11,"text":"台灣多元文化"},{"start":9235.11,"end":9236.11,"text":"台灣的人情味以外"},{"start":9236.11,"end":9237.11,"text":"其實我們對於"},{"start":9237.11,"end":9238.11,"text":"不管族群文化"},{"start":9238.11,"end":9239.11,"text":"先來後到"},{"start":9239.11,"end":9240.11,"text":"或是世界"},{"start":9240.11,"end":9243.11,"text":"像當代的這些精緻的文化"},{"start":9243.11,"end":9245.11,"text":"台灣都可以兼容並蓄"},{"start":9245.11,"end":9246.11,"text":"所以跟我其實"},{"start":9246.11,"end":9247.11,"text":"有關於這種"},{"start":9247.150000000001,"end":9248.150000000001,"text":"東方的文化"},{"start":9248.150000000001,"end":9249.150000000001,"text":"其實我們也可以"},{"start":9249.150000000001,"end":9250.150000000001,"text":"搶這個主導權"},{"start":9250.150000000001,"end":9252.150000000001,"text":"不要都一直挨打"},{"start":9252.150000000001,"end":9253.150000000001,"text":"基本上這個"},{"start":9253.150000000001,"end":9254.150000000001,"text":"可以看到這頁頭影片"},{"start":9254.150000000001,"end":9255.150000000001,"text":"我們這個"},{"start":9255.150000000001,"end":9256.150000000001,"text":"先日本還是哈罕"},{"start":9256.150000000001,"end":9258.150000000001,"text":"像酷羅卓培那"},{"start":9258.150000000001,"end":9259.150000000001,"text":"或是Corean Rave"},{"start":9259.150000000001,"end":9260.150000000001,"text":"這種其實在國際上"},{"start":9260.150000000001,"end":9263.150000000001,"text":"都滿有名的"},{"start":9263.150000000001,"end":9265.150000000001,"text":"我們今天是不是來討論一下"},{"start":9265.150000000001,"end":9266.150000000001,"text":"部長覺得台灣"},{"start":9266.150000000001,"end":9267.150000000001,"text":"有沒有什麼很好"},{"start":9267.150000000001,"end":9268.150000000001,"text":"我覺得這個"},{"start":9268.150000000001,"end":9270.150000000001,"text":"這一陣子因為大家打棒球"},{"start":9270.150000000001,"end":9272.150000000001,"text":"聽Taiwan其實應該"},{"start":9272.150000000001,"end":9273.150000000001,"text":"是不錯的一個品牌"},{"start":9273.150000000001,"end":9274.150000000001,"text":"不知道部長"},{"start":9274.150000000001,"end":9275.150000000001,"text":"有沒有什麼新的想法"},{"start":9275.150000000001,"end":9276.150000000001,"text":"確實"},{"start":9276.19,"end":9277.19,"text":"我們現在請"},{"start":9277.19,"end":9279.19,"text":"除了跟文化部合作以外"},{"start":9279.19,"end":9280.19,"text":"我們把文化界"},{"start":9280.19,"end":9281.19,"text":"我們有台灣"},{"start":9281.19,"end":9282.19,"text":"外交部有一個"},{"start":9282.19,"end":9285.19,"text":"叫做品牌優化的一個小組"},{"start":9285.19,"end":9288.19,"text":"所以怎麼樣去做Taiwan 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括號South"},{"start":9484.310000000001,"end":9485.310000000001,"text":"是"},{"start":9485.310000000001,"end":9486.310000000001,"text":"那這個其實是"},{"start":9486.310000000001,"end":9487.310000000001,"text":"一個我們的立場"},{"start":9487.310000000001,"end":9488.310000000001,"text":"它也了解"},{"start":9488.310000000001,"end":9489.310000000001,"text":"我相信"},{"start":9489.310000000001,"end":9490.310000000001,"text":"我們也期待"},{"start":9490.310000000001,"end":9491.310000000001,"text":"我們對台灣"},{"start":9491.310000000001,"end":9493.310000000001,"text":"海洋關係是可以很好的"},{"start":9493.310000000001,"end":9495.310000000001,"text":"不管在這個"},{"start":9495.310000000001,"end":9496.310000000001,"text":"產業上"},{"start":9496.310000000001,"end":9498.310000000001,"text":"在文化上"},{"start":9498.310000000001,"end":9500.310000000001,"text":"可是這個對我們"},{"start":9500.310000000001,"end":9502.310000000001,"text":"國家的這個"},{"start":9502.310000000001,"end":9503.310000000001,"text":"不管是尊嚴"},{"start":9503.310000000001,"end":9504.310000000001,"text":"或國人的這個"},{"start":9504.35,"end":9506.35,"text":"他的一個尊重"},{"start":9506.35,"end":9507.35,"text":"好 感謝部長"},{"start":9507.35,"end":9508.35,"text":"所以最後我就是把"},{"start":9508.35,"end":9509.35,"text":"我剛剛講的"},{"start":9509.35,"end":9510.35,"text":"再中整一下"},{"start":9510.35,"end":9511.35,"text":"大概就這幾項"},{"start":9511.35,"end":9512.35,"text":"包含我們的文化外交的"},{"start":9512.35,"end":9514.35,"text":"總要這個戰略"},{"start":9514.35,"end":9515.35,"text":"還有我們的定位"},{"start":9515.35,"end":9516.35,"text":"我剛剛說的"},{"start":9516.35,"end":9518.35,"text":"希望能夠跨部會合作"},{"start":9518.35,"end":9519.35,"text":"那請這個部長"},{"start":9519.35,"end":9520.35,"text":"多多再來"},{"start":9520.35,"end":9521.35,"text":"拓展我們的外交"},{"start":9521.35,"end":9522.35,"text":"是"},{"start":9523.41,"end":9524.45,"text":"好 謝謝委員"},{"start":9527.480000000001,"end":9528.480000000001,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":9528.480000000001,"end":9530.480000000001,"text":"我們現在先休息五分鐘"},{"start":9904.26,"end":9905.26,"text":"好 請各位就座"},{"start":9905.26,"end":9906.26,"text":"我們繼續開會"},{"start":9907.810000000001,"end":9909.810000000001,"text":"接下來請黃建斌委員"},{"start":9909.810000000001,"end":9910.810000000001,"text":"上台質詢"},{"start":9926.11,"end":9927.11,"text":"好 謝謝召委員"},{"start":9927.11,"end":9929.11,"text":"我們有請林家榮部長"},{"start":9929.11,"end":9930.11,"text":"請 林部長"},{"start":9936.970000000001,"end":9937.970000000001,"text":"委員好"},{"start":9937.970000000001,"end":9938.970000000001,"text":"部長好"},{"start":9939.78,"end":9940.78,"text":"部長 那個"},{"start":9940.78,"end":9941.78,"text":"近期因為這個"},{"start":9941.78,"end":9943.78,"text":"美國跟伊朗的衝突升高"},{"start":9943.78,"end":9945.78,"text":"那中東地區的這個安全情勢"},{"start":9945.78,"end":9947.78,"text":"持續的緊張"},{"start":9947.78,"end":9950.78,"text":"許多國家都密切的關注"},{"start":9950.78,"end":9951.78,"text":"他們當地的這個"},{"start":9951.78,"end":9953.78,"text":"公民的安全問題"},{"start":9953.78,"end":9955.78,"text":"因為當戰爭"},{"start":9955.78,"end":9956.78,"text":"去衝突發生的時候"},{"start":9956.78,"end":9959.78,"text":"如何確保海外的公民"},{"start":9959.78,"end":9961.78,"text":"他的安全是政府最基本"},{"start":9961.78,"end":9963.78,"text":"也是最重要的責任"},{"start":9963.78,"end":9965.78,"text":"那對於身處海外的"},{"start":9965.78,"end":9966.78,"text":"台灣人而言"},{"start":9966.78,"end":9967.78,"text":"在局勢"},{"start":9968.35,"end":9969.35,"text":"不穩定的情況之下"},{"start":9969.35,"end":9971.35,"text":"他們關心的就是一件事"},{"start":9971.35,"end":9972.35,"text":"所以真的有一天"},{"start":9972.35,"end":9974.35,"text":"發生意外的時候"},{"start":9974.35,"end":9975.35,"text":"我們的建物有沒有領略"},{"start":9975.35,"end":9976.35,"text":"可以安全"},{"start":9976.35,"end":9977.35,"text":"就要我們來處理"},{"start":9977.35,"end":9978.35,"text":"那因此本席這邊"},{"start":9978.35,"end":9979.35,"text":"要關心的重點就是"},{"start":9979.35,"end":9981.35,"text":"我國在面對海外衝突"},{"start":9981.35,"end":9983.35,"text":"或戰爭風險的時候"},{"start":9983.35,"end":9985.35,"text":"是不是具備完整"},{"start":9985.35,"end":9986.35,"text":"而且清楚的這個"},{"start":9986.35,"end":9989.35,"text":"撤僑或撤離的這個機制"},{"start":9989.35,"end":9990.35,"text":"那本席有注意到"},{"start":9990.35,"end":9992.35,"text":"最近中東地區討論旅客"},{"start":9992.35,"end":9993.35,"text":"這個撤離的事件"},{"start":9993.35,"end":9995.35,"text":"在社會上引發了"},{"start":9995.35,"end":9997.35,"text":"不少的這個討論"},{"start":9997.390000000001,"end":9998.390000000001,"text":"那有媒體有報導"},{"start":9998.390000000001,"end":10000.390000000001,"text":"就是在這一次事件"},{"start":10000.390000000001,"end":10002.390000000001,"text":"有兩個台灣人"},{"start":10002.390000000001,"end":10004.390000000001,"text":"在巴林搭乘日本政府"},{"start":10004.390000000001,"end":10006.390000000001,"text":"安排的包機離開當地"},{"start":10006.390000000001,"end":10007.390000000001,"text":"那我們外交部"},{"start":10007.390000000001,"end":10009.390000000001,"text":"都表示說這展現我們"},{"start":10009.390000000001,"end":10010.390000000001,"text":"台日之間的這個"},{"start":10010.390000000001,"end":10013.390000000001,"text":"緊急時刻的互相扶持的友誼"},{"start":10013.390000000001,"end":10014.390000000001,"text":"那本席的領域"},{"start":10014.390000000001,"end":10016.390000000001,"text":"只要是任何國家"},{"start":10016.390000000001,"end":10018.390000000001,"text":"願意在危急的時候"},{"start":10018.390000000001,"end":10020.390000000001,"text":"對需要幫助我們台灣人"},{"start":10020.390000000001,"end":10022.390000000001,"text":"來伸出援手"},{"start":10022.390000000001,"end":10024.390000000001,"text":"我覺得我們都要先存感謝"},{"start":10024.390000000001,"end":10026.390000000001,"text":"因為對於這時段"},{"start":10026.43,"end":10027.43,"text":"對於我們在國外的"},{"start":10027.43,"end":10028.43,"text":"國人來說"},{"start":10028.43,"end":10030.43,"text":"最重要的就是安全的回家"},{"start":10030.43,"end":10031.43,"text":"那但是另外一方面"},{"start":10031.43,"end":10032.43,"text":"有媒體在報導"},{"start":10032.43,"end":10035.43,"text":"有七十幾個台灣的旅客"},{"start":10035.43,"end":10037.43,"text":"因為中東搬機取消"},{"start":10037.43,"end":10039.43,"text":"滯留在海外"},{"start":10039.43,"end":10040.43,"text":"這是旅行社這個事件嘛"},{"start":10040.43,"end":10041.43,"text":"那也是透過"},{"start":10041.43,"end":10042.43,"text":"後來是透過這個"},{"start":10042.43,"end":10044.43,"text":"中國大陸方面的協調跟安排"},{"start":10044.43,"end":10045.43,"text":"然後經過上海"},{"start":10045.43,"end":10046.43,"text":"轉機返回台灣"},{"start":10046.43,"end":10047.43,"text":"那最後這件事情"},{"start":10047.43,"end":10049.43,"text":"相關單位表示是說"},{"start":10049.43,"end":10050.43,"text":"從網路的訊號判斷"},{"start":10050.43,"end":10053.43,"text":"這可能涉及所謂的認知作戰"},{"start":10053.43,"end":10055.43,"text":"本席還要請教部長就是說"},{"start":10055.470000000001,"end":10058.470000000001,"text":"一樣都是協助我們台灣的人民"},{"start":10058.470000000001,"end":10060.470000000001,"text":"離開危險區域"},{"start":10060.470000000001,"end":10062.470000000001,"text":"一樣都是讓國人安全的回家"},{"start":10062.470000000001,"end":10063.470000000001,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":10063.93,"end":10065.93,"text":"日本的協助撤離是"},{"start":10065.93,"end":10066.93,"text":"友誼跟互助"},{"start":10066.93,"end":10068.93,"text":"那中國大陸這邊的協助"},{"start":10068.93,"end":10069.93,"text":"會被認知是"},{"start":10069.93,"end":10071.93,"text":"認定是認知作戰"},{"start":10071.93,"end":10073.93,"text":"那我想政府在面對撤僑"},{"start":10073.93,"end":10075.93,"text":"或撤離國人這件事情"},{"start":10075.93,"end":10076.93,"text":"應該是以"},{"start":10076.93,"end":10079.93,"text":"人民的安全為最高的原則嘛"},{"start":10079.93,"end":10080.93,"text":"應該不是政治的角度"},{"start":10080.93,"end":10081.93,"text":"來看這個事情"},{"start":10081.93,"end":10083.93,"text":"所以本身也注意就是說"},{"start":10083.93,"end":10084.93,"text":"我們中央社這個報導"},{"start":10084.93,"end":10087.93,"text":"我們外交部表示這個在"},{"start":10087.93,"end":10089.93,"text":"中東地區還有七十九個"},{"start":10089.93,"end":10090.93,"text":"七十九名台灣人"},{"start":10090.93,"end":10091.93,"text":"需要協助離境"},{"start":10091.93,"end":10092.93,"text":"那我想"},{"start":10092.970000000001,"end":10093.970000000001,"text":"既然外交部我們都掌握"},{"start":10093.970000000001,"end":10094.970000000001,"text":"這樣的數據"},{"start":10094.970000000001,"end":10096.970000000001,"text":"本席想要請教部長就是"},{"start":10096.970000000001,"end":10098.970000000001,"text":"我們政府目前是不是已經"},{"start":10098.970000000001,"end":10099.970000000001,"text":"建立好完整的撤僑"},{"start":10099.970000000001,"end":10101.970000000001,"text":"評估跟應變機制"},{"start":10101.970000000001,"end":10104.970000000001,"text":"那如果局勢持續惡化"},{"start":10104.970000000001,"end":10105.970000000001,"text":"我們政府是不是有"},{"start":10105.970000000001,"end":10107.970000000001,"text":"具體的撤離方案"},{"start":10107.970000000001,"end":10108.970000000001,"text":"好 報告委員"},{"start":10108.970000000001,"end":10110.970000000001,"text":"確實政府有不管是撤僑"},{"start":10110.970000000001,"end":10112.970000000001,"text":"或互僑的標準作業程序"},{"start":10112.970000000001,"end":10115.970000000001,"text":"那經而這一次中東的戰爭"},{"start":10115.970000000001,"end":10117.970000000001,"text":"也是一個檢驗"},{"start":10117.970000000001,"end":10120.970000000001,"text":"那我們也不斷的在改進"},{"start":10120.970000000001,"end":10121.970000000001,"text":"那至於說您剛提到"},{"start":10122.01,"end":10123.01,"text":"其實日本"},{"start":10123.01,"end":10125.01,"text":"當然他因為他的這個"},{"start":10125.01,"end":10128.01,"text":"包機的這個空位"},{"start":10128.01,"end":10130.01,"text":"有先諮詢我們的需求"},{"start":10130.01,"end":10132.01,"text":"所以我們政府有協助促成"},{"start":10132.01,"end":10134.01,"text":"至於中國他並沒有"},{"start":10134.01,"end":10135.01,"text":"他那個是轉機"},{"start":10135.01,"end":10137.01,"text":"是去上海"},{"start":10137.01,"end":10138.01,"text":"中國是說的多"},{"start":10138.01,"end":10140.01,"text":"做的幾乎沒有啦"},{"start":10140.01,"end":10142.01,"text":"如果去了解在中東的僑民"},{"start":10142.01,"end":10143.01,"text":"他們都認為台灣"},{"start":10143.01,"end":10145.01,"text":"做的比他們中國的大使館"},{"start":10145.01,"end":10146.01,"text":"好太多倍了"},{"start":10146.01,"end":10147.01,"text":"但是呢"},{"start":10147.01,"end":10148.01,"text":"我們不是在計較"},{"start":10148.01,"end":10150.01,"text":"我是說救人優先"},{"start":10150.01,"end":10151.01,"text":"如果當事人有需要"},{"start":10151.050000000001,"end":10152.050000000001,"text":"提供什麼"},{"start":10152.050000000001,"end":10154.050000000001,"text":"可是有時候正在戰爭中"},{"start":10154.050000000001,"end":10155.050000000001,"text":"連一些機場都關了"},{"start":10155.050000000001,"end":10156.050000000001,"text":"航空公司"},{"start":10156.050000000001,"end":10158.050000000001,"text":"他也沒有飛的時候"},{"start":10158.050000000001,"end":10159.050000000001,"text":"那我們怎麼樣"},{"start":10159.050000000001,"end":10161.050000000001,"text":"讓我們的國人了解"},{"start":10161.050000000001,"end":10162.050000000001,"text":"他也比較安心"},{"start":10162.050000000001,"end":10163.050000000001,"text":"不然他會緊張"},{"start":10163.050000000001,"end":10165.050000000001,"text":"部長其實本席的意思是"},{"start":10165.050000000001,"end":10166.050000000001,"text":"把人帶回來"},{"start":10166.050000000001,"end":10167.050000000001,"text":"安全帶回來是最重要的"},{"start":10167.050000000001,"end":10168.050000000001,"text":"是"},{"start":10168.050000000001,"end":10169.050000000001,"text":"他要表達的是這個意思"},{"start":10169.050000000001,"end":10170.050000000001,"text":"好"},{"start":10170.050000000001,"end":10172.050000000001,"text":"那另外一個讓我更關心到就是說"},{"start":10172.050000000001,"end":10174.050000000001,"text":"我們這一次的外交部"},{"start":10174.050000000001,"end":10175.050000000001,"text":"市長吳志忠"},{"start":10175.050000000001,"end":10177.050000000001,"text":"市長在接受媒體訪問的時候"},{"start":10177.050000000001,"end":10180.050000000001,"text":"說中東地區"},{"start":10180.09,"end":10181.09,"text":"空域關閉"},{"start":10181.09,"end":10184.09,"text":"因此外交部先讓僑胞留在當地"},{"start":10184.09,"end":10188.09,"text":"並且提到其他國家也沒有撤僑"},{"start":10188.09,"end":10190.09,"text":"這個部分我也要請教吳志忠"},{"start":10190.09,"end":10192.09,"text":"我們在面對海外戰爭衝突"},{"start":10192.09,"end":10194.09,"text":"或風險的戰爭風險的時候"},{"start":10194.09,"end":10196.09,"text":"撤僑標準到底是什麼"},{"start":10196.09,"end":10199.09,"text":"是依據戰爭的風險評估來做"},{"start":10199.09,"end":10202.09,"text":"還是依據空域是不是有開放"},{"start":10202.09,"end":10204.09,"text":"還是要依據其他國家"},{"start":10204.09,"end":10206.09,"text":"是不是有啟動撤僑"},{"start":10206.09,"end":10208.09,"text":"或撤離才來做這些判斷"},{"start":10209.140000000001,"end":10210.140000000001,"text":"好"},{"start":10210.140000000001,"end":10211.140000000001,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":10211.140000000001,"end":10212.140000000001,"text":"因為所謂撤僑"},{"start":10212.140000000001,"end":10214.140000000001,"text":"這涉及到行政院跨部會"},{"start":10214.140000000001,"end":10216.140000000001,"text":"也有一個機制在處理"},{"start":10216.140000000001,"end":10218.140000000001,"text":"因為包括交通工具"},{"start":10218.140000000001,"end":10220.140000000001,"text":"包括當地是不是落地"},{"start":10220.140000000001,"end":10222.140000000001,"text":"那我們外交部可以做的很重要"},{"start":10222.140000000001,"end":10225.140000000001,"text":"所以於就是說我們當地的國人"},{"start":10225.140000000001,"end":10227.140000000001,"text":"的一個關心跟整個調查"},{"start":10227.140000000001,"end":10228.140000000001,"text":"了解說"},{"start":10228.140000000001,"end":10230.140000000001,"text":"了解他們的需求"},{"start":10230.140000000001,"end":10232.140000000001,"text":"那我們第一時間的了解是"},{"start":10232.140000000001,"end":10235.140000000001,"text":"這一些僑民並沒有表現這樣的需求"},{"start":10235.140000000001,"end":10237.140000000001,"text":"至於說過境的旅客"},{"start":10237.18,"end":10239.18,"text":"那也涉及到怎麼樣去"},{"start":10239.18,"end":10240.18,"text":"他們的需要"},{"start":10240.18,"end":10242.18,"text":"到時候空域放不開是最重要"},{"start":10242.18,"end":10244.18,"text":"特別是我們跟當地國的交涉"},{"start":10244.18,"end":10246.18,"text":"因為這個時間都涉及到一些"},{"start":10246.18,"end":10252.18,"text":"這個空域的這個問題"},{"start":10252.18,"end":10254.18,"text":"安全意外也涉及到主權"},{"start":10254.18,"end":10256.18,"text":"那我剛才講委員"},{"start":10256.18,"end":10257.18,"text":"比如說我們有個例子"},{"start":10257.18,"end":10259.18,"text":"有個中國人"},{"start":10259.18,"end":10261.18,"text":"因為想要跟我們一起撤出"},{"start":10261.18,"end":10263.18,"text":"我們也是很樂於把他納入"},{"start":10263.18,"end":10265.18,"text":"所以我是同意委員的看法"},{"start":10265.220000000001,"end":10268.220000000001,"text":"在戰爭或天災發生的第一時間"},{"start":10268.220000000001,"end":10271.220000000001,"text":"人道的原則救人是最重要"},{"start":10271.220000000001,"end":10273.220000000001,"text":"讓他們有選擇可以離開"},{"start":10273.220000000001,"end":10275.220000000001,"text":"部長為什麼本席的問這個就是說"},{"start":10275.220000000001,"end":10276.220000000001,"text":"如果"},{"start":10276.220000000001,"end":10277.220000000001,"text":"因為我們一聽到是"},{"start":10277.220000000001,"end":10279.220000000001,"text":"因為其他國家也沒有撤僑"},{"start":10279.220000000001,"end":10281.220000000001,"text":"我想說我們的啟動"},{"start":10281.220000000001,"end":10283.220000000001,"text":"其實是看其他有沒有才做嗎"},{"start":10283.220000000001,"end":10285.220000000001,"text":"這代表你都沒有準備"},{"start":10285.220000000001,"end":10288.220000000001,"text":"你滴不動我不動還是跨室辦事"},{"start":10288.220000000001,"end":10290.220000000001,"text":"我同意委員的講法"},{"start":10290.220000000001,"end":10291.220000000001,"text":"因為這有標準作業程序"},{"start":10291.220000000001,"end":10293.220000000001,"text":"所以各部會都要啟動"},{"start":10293.220000000001,"end":10294.18,"text":"是是保定"},{"start":10294.18,"end":10295.18,"text":"這就是本席要問的"},{"start":10295.18,"end":10297.18,"text":"另外剛好部長提到就是說"},{"start":10297.18,"end":10298.18,"text":"空域的部分"},{"start":10298.18,"end":10300.18,"text":"我們撤僑難道除了飛機以外"},{"start":10300.18,"end":10301.18,"text":"沒有其他的方式嗎"},{"start":10301.18,"end":10302.18,"text":"陸域我們也有"},{"start":10302.18,"end":10303.18,"text":"可以嘛對不對"},{"start":10303.18,"end":10305.18,"text":"有些如果可以移動的話"},{"start":10305.18,"end":10307.18,"text":"我們在這一次裡面有很多"},{"start":10307.18,"end":10310.18,"text":"跨國的移動也是透過我們的管束協助"},{"start":10310.18,"end":10313.18,"text":"讓他們可以從可以離開的"},{"start":10313.18,"end":10317.18,"text":"不管這個飛機或者是說其他的陸域"},{"start":10317.18,"end":10318.18,"text":"是是"},{"start":10318.18,"end":10320.18,"text":"所以其實本席要了解就是"},{"start":10320.18,"end":10322.18,"text":"我們到底有沒有準備這件事"},{"start":10322.18,"end":10325.18,"text":"因為未來這樣的情況如果再發生的時候"},{"start":10325.18,"end":10326.18,"text":"我相信大家不樂見"},{"start":10326.18,"end":10328.18,"text":"但是真的發生的時候"},{"start":10328.18,"end":10329.18,"text":"我們在海外的這些"},{"start":10329.18,"end":10331.18,"text":"我們台灣自己的同胞"},{"start":10331.18,"end":10333.18,"text":"我第一時間我沒怎麼想"},{"start":10333.18,"end":10334.18,"text":"因為我當我聽到這個時候"},{"start":10334.18,"end":10336.18,"text":"其實換作是我"},{"start":10336.18,"end":10338.18,"text":"我的家人是在海外遇到這種情況"},{"start":10338.18,"end":10339.18,"text":"我一定會覺得說"},{"start":10339.18,"end":10340.18,"text":"你都沒有準備"},{"start":10340.18,"end":10341.18,"text":"我們是怎麼辦"},{"start":10341.18,"end":10342.18,"text":"所以這個部分"},{"start":10342.18,"end":10344.18,"text":"部裡面這邊也是要做"},{"start":10344.18,"end":10346.18,"text":"就是我接下來想要"},{"start":10346.87,"end":10348.87,"text":"具體的幾個問題就是第一個"},{"start":10348.87,"end":10350.87,"text":"我們的風險評估報告是不是"},{"start":10350.87,"end":10352.87,"text":"海外測小風險評估報告是做好了"},{"start":10352.87,"end":10353.87,"text":"那這些"},{"start":10354.02,"end":10357.02,"text":"測理的指標是依照哪一些來判斷"},{"start":10357.02,"end":10360.02,"text":"那第二個就是說我們是不是掌握"},{"start":10360.02,"end":10362.02,"text":"目前在中東各國的人數"},{"start":10362.02,"end":10363.02,"text":"那分布跟安全狀況"},{"start":10363.02,"end":10366.02,"text":"我們是不是有建立及時聯繫跟協助"},{"start":10366.02,"end":10367.02,"text":"其實包括旅遊"},{"start":10367.02,"end":10369.02,"text":"包括我們的橋"},{"start":10369.02,"end":10370.02,"text":"華僑"},{"start":10370.02,"end":10372.02,"text":"那我們第三個就是說"},{"start":10372.02,"end":10375.02,"text":"如果中東再進一步情勢升溫"},{"start":10375.02,"end":10377.02,"text":"我們是不是具備有"},{"start":10377.02,"end":10380.02,"text":"隨時可以測理的這個方案"},{"start":10380.27,"end":10382.27,"text":"那"},{"start":10381.53,"end":10384.53,"text":"跟周邊的哪些國家是不是有做好這樣的互助"},{"start":10384.53,"end":10387.53,"text":"因為不可能是有時候要透過其他關係嘛"},{"start":10387.53,"end":10388.53,"text":"年金的國家嘛"},{"start":10388.53,"end":10389.53,"text":"那大概怎麼弄嘛"},{"start":10389.53,"end":10391.53,"text":"那最後就是要強調是"},{"start":10391.53,"end":10394.53,"text":"測巧真的是人命的"},{"start":10394.98,"end":10396.98,"text":"安全問題"},{"start":10396.98,"end":10399.98,"text":"我很好奇想問就是說我們像現在"},{"start":10399.98,"end":10401.98,"text":"中東地區現在在旅遊警示"},{"start":10401.98,"end":10403.98,"text":"是被列為什麼級"},{"start":10404.27,"end":10406.27,"text":"紅色警戒嗎"},{"start":10406.27,"end":10407.27,"text":"紅色或橘色"},{"start":10408.23,"end":10410.23,"text":"就橙色啦"},{"start":10411.39,"end":10413.39,"text":"因為我很好奇就是說"},{"start":10413.39,"end":10415.39,"text":"當時如果說照媒體說的"},{"start":10415.39,"end":10418.39,"text":"請我們在中東的這些台灣人說"},{"start":10418.39,"end":10419.39,"text":"在原地待"},{"start":10419.39,"end":10421.39,"text":"那都已經是這麼緊急"},{"start":10421.39,"end":10423.39,"text":"在旅遊圈待的意義是什麼"},{"start":10423.39,"end":10425.39,"text":"所以這個部分其實都是"},{"start":10425.39,"end":10426.39,"text":"其實如果是本色"},{"start":10426.39,"end":10429.39,"text":"比較多的我們國人都在關心的事情"},{"start":10429.39,"end":10432.39,"text":"那我想當然很多外交的事情"},{"start":10432.39,"end":10433.39,"text":"不是這麼的單純"},{"start":10433.39,"end":10434.39,"text":"我也相信"},{"start":10434.39,"end":10435.39,"text":"那我也知道外交部很努力"},{"start":10435.39,"end":10437.39,"text":"但是我們更想要確保就是"},{"start":10437.39,"end":10440.39,"text":"在這件事情給我們帶來的應變狀況"},{"start":10440.39,"end":10442.39,"text":"未來應付這樣的情況的時候"},{"start":10442.39,"end":10445.39,"text":"特別是如果在周邊都沒有幫交國"},{"start":10445.39,"end":10448.39,"text":"我們怎麼去把我們的"},{"start":10449.97,"end":10451.97,"text":"國人能夠安全的帶回來台灣"},{"start":10452.38,"end":10453.38,"text":"另外就是說"},{"start":10453.38,"end":10456.38,"text":"補充一下我們說比較輕鬆的問題"},{"start":10456.38,"end":10458.38,"text":"就是講到台東這件事情"},{"start":10458.38,"end":10460.38,"text":"我想這幾年其實我們比較少看到"},{"start":10460.38,"end":10461.38,"text":"外交部跟台東"},{"start":10461.38,"end":10463.38,"text":"現有在做一些合作的事情"},{"start":10463.38,"end":10465.38,"text":"不管是在推銷台東"},{"start":10465.38,"end":10468.38,"text":"或者是說外國的友人來台灣"},{"start":10468.38,"end":10471.38,"text":"或是要宣揚台灣的這些文化"},{"start":10471.38,"end":10472.38,"text":"本色在這裡建議"},{"start":10472.38,"end":10473.38,"text":"我們台東其實是"},{"start":10473.38,"end":10475.38,"text":"台東是一個台灣的社會"},{"start":10475.38,"end":10476.38,"text":"我們的"},{"start":10476.38,"end":10478.38,"text":"我們除了是擁有"},{"start":10478.38,"end":10480.38,"text":"最多原住民族群的縣市以外"},{"start":10480.38,"end":10482.38,"text":"我們人口其實是有"},{"start":10482.38,"end":10484.38,"text":"民客源還有外籍"},{"start":10484.38,"end":10486.38,"text":"這東西很符合台灣的精神"},{"start":10486.38,"end":10488.38,"text":"就是多元跟包容"},{"start":10488.38,"end":10489.38,"text":"台灣還有包容"},{"start":10489.38,"end":10492.38,"text":"我們來台東這麼開闊的就是像東西"},{"start":10492.38,"end":10493.38,"text":"我們就首先過歐洲"},{"start":10493.38,"end":10495.38,"text":"跟台灣這個土地拼命"},{"start":10495.38,"end":10496.38,"text":"這件事情一樣"},{"start":10496.38,"end":10498.38,"text":"我們是希望外交部能夠多多的"},{"start":10498.38,"end":10500.38,"text":"讓台東這樣的精神"},{"start":10500.38,"end":10502.38,"text":"跟這樣的文化的特質"},{"start":10502.38,"end":10503.38,"text":"讓其他的國家看到"},{"start":10503.38,"end":10506.38,"text":"也來行銷我們台東縣跟台灣"},{"start":10506.38,"end":10508.38,"text":"這個部分是不是請部長"},{"start":10508.93,"end":10510.93,"text":"也好 當然到合作"},{"start":10510.93,"end":10511.93,"text":"我們會出的重點"},{"start":10511.93,"end":10513.93,"text":"然後也會請議委員"},{"start":10513.93,"end":10515.93,"text":"因為我在擔任交通部長的時候"},{"start":10515.93,"end":10517.93,"text":"幾乎把我們環島的"},{"start":10517.93,"end":10518.93,"text":"有 部長"},{"start":10518.93,"end":10520.93,"text":"鐵公路都串聯"},{"start":10520.93,"end":10521.93,"text":"然後那時候疫情發生"},{"start":10521.93,"end":10523.93,"text":"我們也導入深度旅遊"},{"start":10523.93,"end":10525.93,"text":"所以台東除了"},{"start":10525.93,"end":10526.93,"text":"沒有來過台東"},{"start":10526.93,"end":10528.93,"text":"很難體驗到台灣"},{"start":10528.93,"end":10530.93,"text":"因為我們只能夠去定位台東"},{"start":10530.93,"end":10532.93,"text":"一方面是它的生態"},{"start":10532.93,"end":10535.93,"text":"這個板塊擠壓產生的這個"},{"start":10535.93,"end":10536.93,"text":"不管是海岸山脈"},{"start":10536.93,"end":10539.93,"text":"或整個那個地質"},{"start":10539.93,"end":10541.93,"text":"再來就是文化多元族群"},{"start":10541.93,"end":10543.93,"text":"所以我們最近也有一些"},{"start":10543.93,"end":10545.93,"text":"這個原住民外交"},{"start":10545.93,"end":10547.93,"text":"跟這個太平洋國家"},{"start":10547.93,"end":10549.93,"text":"包括那個獨木舟"},{"start":10549.93,"end":10551.93,"text":"還有吳動力的帆船"},{"start":10551.93,"end":10552.93,"text":"那其他的我想"},{"start":10552.93,"end":10555.93,"text":"如果真正要來第二次深度體驗"},{"start":10555.93,"end":10559.93,"text":"台東比較長的時間去做度假"},{"start":10559.93,"end":10560.93,"text":"我們現在的民宿"},{"start":10560.93,"end":10562.93,"text":"我們現在年輕人的這一些"},{"start":10562.93,"end":10565.93,"text":"這個創業的"},{"start":10565.93,"end":10567.93,"text":"食宿遊客型都有"},{"start":10567.93,"end":10570.93,"text":"來過台東會完全不一樣"},{"start":10570.93,"end":10571.93,"text":"會愛上台灣"},{"start":10571.93,"end":10573.93,"text":"看著中央山脈我們是傲童"},{"start":10573.93,"end":10575.93,"text":"就是面對太平洋"},{"start":10575.93,"end":10577.93,"text":"我們是在台東的最前面"},{"start":10577.93,"end":10579.93,"text":"當我們是一個海洋國家"},{"start":10579.93,"end":10581.93,"text":"我們想要更開放的方式讓大家看到"},{"start":10581.93,"end":10582.93,"text":"我是可言"},{"start":10582.93,"end":10583.93,"text":"我可不可以建議一個"},{"start":10583.93,"end":10584.93,"text":"其實雙東"},{"start":10584.93,"end":10587.93,"text":"我覺得我們高雄現在去的人多"},{"start":10587.93,"end":10589.93,"text":"其實透過南迴鐵路"},{"start":10590.93,"end":10592.93,"text":"那個鐵道觀光"},{"start":10592.93,"end":10594.93,"text":"把台東跟屏東串聯起來"},{"start":10594.93,"end":10595.93,"text":"是完全是"},{"start":10595.93,"end":10597.93,"text":"我想這是世界級的體驗"},{"start":10597.93,"end":10599.93,"text":"也許我們會來討論進步"},{"start":10599.93,"end":10601.93,"text":"應該都有一些畫面"},{"start":10601.93,"end":10603.93,"text":"我們日後可以一起來合作"},{"start":10603.93,"end":10605.93,"text":"最後還是請部長就是江"},{"start":10605.93,"end":10607.93,"text":"我們今天本來提到這些"},{"start":10607.93,"end":10610.93,"text":"關於撤僑的準備或機制"},{"start":10610.93,"end":10612.93,"text":"然後以及提到一些問題"},{"start":10612.93,"end":10613.93,"text":"在一週內江這些報告"},{"start":10613.93,"end":10614.93,"text":"能夠送到本來辦公室"},{"start":10614.93,"end":10615.93,"text":"也讓我們了解"},{"start":10615.93,"end":10617.93,"text":"我們進入外交部"},{"start":10617.93,"end":10618.93,"text":"我們對於安內的檢討"},{"start":10618.93,"end":10619.93,"text":"還沒辦法出力"},{"start":10619.93,"end":10620.93,"text":"我們把已經做了"},{"start":10620.93,"end":10621.93,"text":"跟應該怎麼做會更好"},{"start":10621.93,"end":10622.93,"text":"做個檢討"},{"start":10622.93,"end":10623.93,"text":"因為這個事情還在發生中"},{"start":10623.93,"end":10625.93,"text":"前世也不忘後世思思"},{"start":10625.93,"end":10628.93,"text":"所以我們會滾動式的檢討跟精進"},{"start":10628.93,"end":10629.93,"text":"謝謝部長"},{"start":10629.93,"end":10630.93,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":10630.93,"end":10631.93,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":10632.81,"end":10633.81,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":10634.38,"end":10637.38,"text":"接下來請王定宇委員上台諮詢"},{"start":10648.01,"end":10649.01,"text":"好謝謝主席"},{"start":10649.01,"end":10650.01,"text":"麻煩林佳龍部長"},{"start":10650.01,"end":10651.01,"text":"請林部長"},{"start":10657.12,"end":10658.12,"text":"委員好"},{"start":10658.12,"end":10659.12,"text":"保證辛苦"},{"start":10659.12,"end":10661.12,"text":"我們外交部在部長"},{"start":10661.12,"end":10662.12,"text":"擔任部長以後"},{"start":10662.12,"end":10663.12,"text":"不管是綜合外交"},{"start":10663.12,"end":10666.12,"text":"或者是整體國立的呈現"},{"start":10666.12,"end":10668.12,"text":"過去這兩年多來"},{"start":10668.12,"end":10670.12,"text":"確實有一些新的面貌"},{"start":10670.12,"end":10672.12,"text":"而且台灣在國際舞台"},{"start":10672.12,"end":10674.12,"text":"被看見的風貌越來越多元"},{"start":10674.12,"end":10675.12,"text":"越來越豐富"},{"start":10675.12,"end":10678.12,"text":"不像以往都透過被打壓"},{"start":10678.12,"end":10679.12,"text":"或者透過災難"},{"start":10679.12,"end":10681.12,"text":"或者透過幫忙被看見"},{"start":10681.12,"end":10684.12,"text":"這一點本席在這邊給我們外交部"},{"start":10684.12,"end":10685.12,"text":"部長跟所有同仁"},{"start":10685.12,"end":10686.12,"text":"很高的肯定"},{"start":10686.12,"end":10688.12,"text":"因為真實的戰場"},{"start":10688.12,"end":10690.12,"text":"其實是在外交"},{"start":10690.12,"end":10693.12,"text":"其他的海巡警政國防"},{"start":10693.12,"end":10694.12,"text":"是面對威脅"},{"start":10694.12,"end":10695.12,"text":"但是每一天"},{"start":10695.12,"end":10697.12,"text":"在面對這樣的挑戰"},{"start":10697.12,"end":10699.12,"text":"其實外交部駐外人員都相當辛苦"},{"start":10700,"end":10702,"text":"我們也曾經討論過"},{"start":10702,"end":10704,"text":"駐外人員相關的防捕"},{"start":10704,"end":10705,"text":"教捕"},{"start":10705,"end":10706,"text":"各種"},{"start":10706,"end":10708,"text":"那一塊我們已經討論一段時間"},{"start":10708,"end":10710,"text":"我今天就不再著重在這一塊"},{"start":10710,"end":10712,"text":"我先請教一個問題"},{"start":10712,"end":10714,"text":"賴總統就職到現在"},{"start":10714,"end":10716,"text":"邁向第三年了"},{"start":10716,"end":10718,"text":"出訪一次"},{"start":10718,"end":10720,"text":"目前有一次出訪到南泰"},{"start":10720,"end":10722,"text":"今年第三年"},{"start":10722,"end":10724,"text":"有沒有出訪的計畫"},{"start":10724.29,"end":10726.29,"text":"我們有接到邀請"},{"start":10726.29,"end":10728.29,"text":"除了國事訪問"},{"start":10728.29,"end":10730.29,"text":"也有時候會配合對方國家"},{"start":10730.29,"end":10732.29,"text":"有重大的典禮"},{"start":10732.29,"end":10734.29,"text":"那有哪幾國邀請我們"},{"start":10737.67,"end":10739.67,"text":"就是"},{"start":10739.67,"end":10741.67,"text":"斯瓦丁尼最近"},{"start":10741.67,"end":10743.67,"text":"有邀請台灣因為他們有重大的節慶"},{"start":10743.67,"end":10745.67,"text":"是 如偉傑那樣子"},{"start":10745.67,"end":10747.67,"text":"他們好像是"},{"start":10747.96,"end":10749.96,"text":"他們就是"},{"start":10749.96,"end":10751.96,"text":"應該說死亡登基"},{"start":10751.96,"end":10753.96,"text":"40年以及他們"},{"start":10753.96,"end":10755.96,"text":"也是"},{"start":10755.96,"end":10757.96,"text":"58歲的生日"},{"start":10757.96,"end":10759.96,"text":"所以斯瓦丁尼有邀請"},{"start":10759.96,"end":10761.96,"text":"還有沒有其他的地方"},{"start":10761.96,"end":10763.96,"text":"其他當然一般來講我們有一些"},{"start":10763.96,"end":10765.96,"text":"比如說有新政府"},{"start":10765.96,"end":10767.96,"text":"產生的國家"},{"start":10767.96,"end":10769.96,"text":"或是因為他有來訪"},{"start":10769.96,"end":10771.96,"text":"我們也是有要回訪"},{"start":10771.96,"end":10773.96,"text":"這些也都在評估的範圍"},{"start":10773.96,"end":10775.96,"text":"所以今年確實"},{"start":10775.96,"end":10777.96,"text":"有受邀也在評估出訪的可能性"},{"start":10777.96,"end":10779.96,"text":"那我們"},{"start":10779.96,"end":10781.96,"text":"元首外交其實對台灣很重要"},{"start":10781.96,"end":10783.96,"text":"我們特別困難"},{"start":10783.96,"end":10785.96,"text":"所以透過元首外交有的是鞏固邦誼"},{"start":10785.96,"end":10787.96,"text":"有的是做外交突破"},{"start":10787.96,"end":10789.96,"text":"有的是希望被看見"},{"start":10789.96,"end":10791.96,"text":"那你估計今年我們"},{"start":10791.96,"end":10793.96,"text":"元首外交的頻率"},{"start":10793.96,"end":10795.96,"text":"會一次兩次三次"},{"start":10795.96,"end":10797.96,"text":"或者不盡限於一次"},{"start":10797.96,"end":10799.96,"text":"能回答就回答"},{"start":10799.01,"end":10801.01,"text":"我們一般來講會朝兩次"},{"start":10801.01,"end":10803.01,"text":"來做規劃"},{"start":10803.01,"end":10805.01,"text":"當然也會"},{"start":10805.01,"end":10807.01,"text":"就是說因應情勢"},{"start":10807.01,"end":10809.01,"text":"的發展來做調整"},{"start":10809.01,"end":10811.01,"text":"OK好所以"},{"start":10811.01,"end":10813.01,"text":"我們樂見也希望"},{"start":10813.01,"end":10815.01,"text":"今年的不管是國事出訪或元首外交"},{"start":10815.01,"end":10817.01,"text":"能夠有好的消息"},{"start":10817.01,"end":10819.01,"text":"那接下來我們要看一些"},{"start":10819.01,"end":10821.01,"text":"面對的狀況"},{"start":10821.01,"end":10823.01,"text":"在立陶宛的部分"},{"start":10823.01,"end":10825.01,"text":"我們原來期待的是一個正"},{"start":10825.01,"end":10827.01,"text":"骨牌效應也就是當時"},{"start":10827.01,"end":10829.01,"text":"立陶宛設立台灣代表處"},{"start":10829.01,"end":10831.01,"text":"那我們希望連動"},{"start":10831.01,"end":10833.01,"text":"不管是愛沙尼亞"},{"start":10833.01,"end":10835.01,"text":"或者捷克"},{"start":10835.01,"end":10837.01,"text":"其他國家能夠"},{"start":10837.01,"end":10839.01,"text":"仿效讓台灣代表處能夠"},{"start":10839.01,"end":10841.01,"text":"陸續成立那確實"},{"start":10841.01,"end":10843.01,"text":"當時中國在歐洲尤其"},{"start":10843.01,"end":10845.01,"text":"中東歐本來是他們"},{"start":10845.01,"end":10847.01,"text":"有幾家幾那個很強勢的"},{"start":10847.01,"end":10849.01,"text":"外交力量在那個狀態下"},{"start":10849.01,"end":10851.01,"text":"加上COVID-19的期間"},{"start":10851.01,"end":10853.01,"text":"所以中國在"},{"start":10853.01,"end":10855.01,"text":"Central Europe它確實是降下來了"},{"start":10855.01,"end":10857.01,"text":"那現在目前我們觀察到的現象是"},{"start":10857.01,"end":10859.01,"text":"立陶宛的總理盧錦妮"},{"start":10859.01,"end":10861.01,"text":"她"},{"start":10861.01,"end":10863.01,"text":"她"},{"start":10863.01,"end":10865.01,"text":"她"},{"start":10865.01,"end":10867.01,"text":"她"},{"start":10867.01,"end":10869.01,"text":"她"},{"start":10869.01,"end":10871.01,"text":"她"},{"start":10871.01,"end":10873.01,"text":"她"},{"start":10873.01,"end":10875.01,"text":"她"},{"start":10875.01,"end":10877.01,"text":"她"},{"start":10877.01,"end":10879.01,"text":"她"},{"start":10879.01,"end":10881.01,"text":"她"},{"start":10881.01,"end":10883.01,"text":"她"},{"start":10865.09,"end":10867.09,"text":"認為設置台灣代表處"},{"start":10867.09,"end":10869.09,"text":"是一個巨大錯誤"},{"start":10869.21,"end":10871.65,"text":"那他們的前任總理呢"},{"start":10871.65,"end":10873.65,"text":"也向中國提案要恢復"},{"start":10873.65,"end":10877.05,"text":"中國跟立陶宛相關的互動跟關係"},{"start":10877.05,"end":10879.05,"text":"那這是一個警訊"},{"start":10879.05,"end":10881.47,"text":"因為這警訊除了我們原來期待的"},{"start":10881.47,"end":10883.47,"text":"正骨牌效應沒有發生"},{"start":10883.47,"end":10885.47,"text":"我擔心的是逆骨牌效應"},{"start":10885.47,"end":10888.47,"text":"也就是設立台灣代表處"},{"start":10888.47,"end":10891.21,"text":"被定義為一個巨大的錯誤"},{"start":10891.97,"end":10894.609999999999,"text":"那接下來對我們在歐洲的外交工作"},{"start":10894.609999999999,"end":10896.609999999999,"text":"不管是多瑙河、沿岸九國啦"},{"start":10896.609999999999,"end":10899.41,"text":"或者其他國家要開展往前更進一步"},{"start":10899.41,"end":10901.41,"text":"讓台灣被看見、讓台灣被證明"},{"start":10901.41,"end":10903.41,"text":"可能會遇到更大的困難"},{"start":10903.41,"end":10905.91,"text":"我先請問立陶宛發生了什麼事情"},{"start":10907.23,"end":10909.23,"text":"他會做出這樣的表述"},{"start":10909.23,"end":10912.029999999999,"text":"然後對於我們住處的跟明"},{"start":10912.029999999999,"end":10914.029999999999,"text":"目前立陶宛的態度是什麼"},{"start":10914.3,"end":10916.3,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":10916.3,"end":10918.3,"text":"雖然他們總理曾經有這樣的發言"},{"start":10918.3,"end":10920.3,"text":"不過後來也有修正"},{"start":10920.3,"end":10922.3,"text":"然後在他們總統老薩達出面"},{"start":10922.3,"end":10924.3,"text":"召開國安會議之後也定了調"},{"start":10924.3,"end":10926.3,"text":"有跟台灣的關係"},{"start":10926.3,"end":10928.3,"text":"怎麼樣持續的來發展"},{"start":10928.3,"end":10930.3,"text":"所以說他們要跟中國的關係"},{"start":10930.3,"end":10932.3,"text":"那個也不是超支在立陶宛"},{"start":10932.3,"end":10934.3,"text":"要看中國到底怎麼做"},{"start":10934.3,"end":10938.3,"text":"所以我覺得經過這樣的一個總統召集的國安會議之後"},{"start":10938.3,"end":10940.3,"text":"我們很清楚"},{"start":10940.3,"end":10942.3,"text":"他們也是很肯定"},{"start":10942.3,"end":10944.3,"text":"我們肯定跟台灣的這個"},{"start":10944.3,"end":10946.3,"text":"我們的這個涉處的關係"},{"start":10946.3,"end":10948.3,"text":"就外交部的評估我們目前跟立陶宛的狀態"},{"start":10948.3,"end":10950.3,"text":"包含住處的名稱、編制"},{"start":10950.3,"end":10952.3,"text":"是不會有影響"},{"start":10952.3,"end":10954.3,"text":"不會有改變"},{"start":10956.46,"end":10958.46,"text":"我們要講一下股牌效應的部分"},{"start":10958.46,"end":10960.46,"text":"因為2758號決議文"},{"start":10960.46,"end":10962.46,"text":"事實上是對台灣非常重要的一個法律"},{"start":10962.46,"end":10964.46,"text":"跟國際事件"},{"start":10964.46,"end":10966.46,"text":"當中國濫用、扭曲、解釋2758號決議文"},{"start":10966.46,"end":10968.46,"text":"作為一中原則或一中政策的基礎"},{"start":10968.46,"end":10970.46,"text":"對外宣稱代表台灣2300萬人"},{"start":10970.46,"end":10972.46,"text":"那個虛幻的幻影"},{"start":10972.46,"end":10974.46,"text":"讓台灣參加"},{"start":10974.46,"end":10976.46,"text":"不管是聯合國或相關的國際組織"},{"start":10976.46,"end":10978.46,"text":"遭受阻礙"},{"start":10978.46,"end":10980.46,"text":"我們跟各國建立正常的邦交關係"},{"start":10980.46,"end":10982.46,"text":"也因為這樣子"},{"start":10982.46,"end":10984.46,"text":"台灣已經被代表的假象"},{"start":10985.08,"end":10987.08,"text":"傷害了台灣幾十年"},{"start":10987.08,"end":10989.08,"text":"從澳洲開始到歐盟許多國家"},{"start":10989.08,"end":10991.08,"text":"甚至義大利的外委會"},{"start":10991.08,"end":10993.08,"text":"參議院的外委會"},{"start":10993.08,"end":10995.08,"text":"到美國、到加拿大"},{"start":10995.08,"end":10997.08,"text":"主流的民主國家都說2758號決議文"},{"start":10997.08,"end":10999.08,"text":"無關台灣"},{"start":10999.08,"end":11001.08,"text":"這是一個在法國際法理上"},{"start":11001.08,"end":11003.08,"text":"破除所謂的中國代表台灣"},{"start":11003.08,"end":11005.08,"text":"一中原則、一中政策"},{"start":11005.08,"end":11007.08,"text":"非常重要的法律戰的一個"},{"start":11007.08,"end":11009.08,"text":"我認為是一個勝利"},{"start":11009.08,"end":11011.08,"text":"這也是外交部長期很努力"},{"start":11011.08,"end":11013.08,"text":"美國國務院也幫了很多的忙"},{"start":11013.08,"end":11015.08,"text":"在2758號決議文"},{"start":11015.08,"end":11017.08,"text":"加上立陶宛的效應"},{"start":11017.08,"end":11019.08,"text":"原來我們期待是歐洲"},{"start":11019.08,"end":11021.08,"text":"像愛沙尼亞、愛斯多尼亞"},{"start":11022.13,"end":11024.13,"text":"也許我們可以設置一個台灣代表處"},{"start":11024.13,"end":11026.13,"text":"或其他住處做一個證明"},{"start":11026.13,"end":11028.13,"text":"目前愛沙尼亞的設處"},{"start":11028.13,"end":11030.13,"text":"其實講了很久很久"},{"start":11030.13,"end":11032.13,"text":"包含雙邊的合作"},{"start":11032.13,"end":11034.13,"text":"互訪也相當多"},{"start":11034.13,"end":11036.13,"text":"現在的諮商的階段進到哪裡"},{"start":11036.13,"end":11038.13,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":11038.13,"end":11040.13,"text":"我們在他通過"},{"start":11040.13,"end":11042.13,"text":"國會這個賦予的法源"},{"start":11042.13,"end":11044.13,"text":"已經在他們在進行施行細則"},{"start":11044.13,"end":11046.13,"text":"那這施行細則會針對"},{"start":11046.13,"end":11048.13,"text":"當然因為他是把台灣放在"},{"start":11048.13,"end":11050.13,"text":"整個法案裡面就是某一類"},{"start":11050.13,"end":11052.13,"text":"對"},{"start":11052.13,"end":11054.13,"text":"我們實質上當然在周邊國家"},{"start":11054.13,"end":11056.13,"text":"也都有一些設處"},{"start":11056.13,"end":11058.13,"text":"我們的外交的這個地位"},{"start":11058.13,"end":11060.13,"text":"跟特權還有豁免等"},{"start":11060.13,"end":11062.13,"text":"這個都有在溝通中"},{"start":11062.13,"end":11064.13,"text":"可是"},{"start":11064.13,"end":11066.13,"text":"因為那個施行細則要完成"},{"start":11066.13,"end":11068.13,"text":"我們才能夠正式的"},{"start":11068.13,"end":11070.13,"text":"來提出那個方案"},{"start":11070.13,"end":11072.13,"text":"這個愛斯多尼亞他們"},{"start":11072.13,"end":11074.13,"text":"是用一個法律去框架"},{"start":11074.13,"end":11076.13,"text":"不同的外交關係的定義"},{"start":11076.13,"end":11078.13,"text":"所以設處那個法源"},{"start":11078.13,"end":11080.13,"text":"如果有什麼細節出來就可以處理了"},{"start":11080.13,"end":11082.13,"text":"住處名稱呢"},{"start":11082.13,"end":11084.13,"text":"住處名稱當然也都會交換意見"},{"start":11084.13,"end":11086.13,"text":"在這個階段"},{"start":11086.13,"end":11088.13,"text":"目前傾向是台北經貿或者是台灣"},{"start":11088.13,"end":11090.13,"text":"因為對方在通過國會"},{"start":11090.13,"end":11092.13,"text":"這個法案以及他們"},{"start":11092.13,"end":11094.13,"text":"內閣的這個決定的時候"},{"start":11094.13,"end":11096.13,"text":"其實他們是用台北"},{"start":11096.13,"end":11098.13,"text":"他是用台北"},{"start":11098.13,"end":11100.13,"text":"所以目前是往台北辦事處"},{"start":11100.13,"end":11102.13,"text":"就他們的先前的"},{"start":11102.13,"end":11104.13,"text":"這個"},{"start":11104.13,"end":11106.13,"text":"就是用的"},{"start":11106.13,"end":11108.13,"text":"設處是以台北"},{"start":11108.13,"end":11110.13,"text":"那我們外交部的態度呢"},{"start":11110.13,"end":11112.13,"text":"跟工作的方向呢"},{"start":11112.13,"end":11114.13,"text":"我們基本上就是建立"},{"start":11114.13,"end":11116.13,"text":"實質的外交關係"},{"start":11116.13,"end":11118.13,"text":"有外交的這種代表性"},{"start":11118.13,"end":11120.13,"text":"這是我們的目標"},{"start":11120.13,"end":11122.13,"text":"那每一個國家也都會"},{"start":11122.13,"end":11124.13,"text":"因應他的情況"},{"start":11124.97,"end":11126.97,"text":"就是不是單一的方案"},{"start":11129.04,"end":11131.04,"text":"外交部長在這邊不適合把我們底牌說死"},{"start":11131.04,"end":11133.04,"text":"但我們還是期待讓"},{"start":11133.04,"end":11135.04,"text":"台灣兩千三百萬人"},{"start":11135.04,"end":11137.04,"text":"像我台南我就不是被台北代表的"},{"start":11137.04,"end":11139.04,"text":"就是說我們還是希望能夠被看見"},{"start":11139.04,"end":11141.04,"text":"被代表的名稱"},{"start":11141.04,"end":11143.04,"text":"我們希望我們"},{"start":11143.04,"end":11145.04,"text":"各位同仁繼續努力啦"},{"start":11145.04,"end":11147.04,"text":"台灣的困難我們都知道"},{"start":11147.04,"end":11149.04,"text":"困難的來源我們也知道"},{"start":11149.04,"end":11151.04,"text":"所以"},{"start":11151.04,"end":11153.04,"text":"往對的方向努力不代表輕鬆啦"},{"start":11153.04,"end":11155.04,"text":"所以請你們繼續加油"},{"start":11155.04,"end":11157.04,"text":"另外我移到芭拉圭"},{"start":11157.04,"end":11159.04,"text":"我用那個超級豪華的旅程"},{"start":11159.04,"end":11161.04,"text":"邀請了芭拉圭的國會議員"},{"start":11161.04,"end":11163.04,"text":"去中國訪問"},{"start":11163.04,"end":11165.04,"text":"那確實也產生一些效應"},{"start":11165.04,"end":11167.04,"text":"他們回芭拉圭之後"},{"start":11167.04,"end":11169.04,"text":"這是我們在拉美唯一的邦交國"},{"start":11169.04,"end":11171.04,"text":"在南美唯一的邦交國"},{"start":11171.04,"end":11173.04,"text":"他也表達說建議要調整"},{"start":11173.04,"end":11175.04,"text":"對台的相關關係"},{"start":11175.04,"end":11177.04,"text":"那我們都曉得中國習慣性"},{"start":11178.53,"end":11180.53,"text":"或者中國會把經貿當外交武器"},{"start":11182.73,"end":11184.73,"text":"中國呢也會把貪腐"},{"start":11184.73,"end":11186.73,"text":"當作外交的機會"},{"start":11186.73,"end":11188.73,"text":"跟外交的工具"},{"start":11188.73,"end":11190.73,"text":"這是中國的習慣"},{"start":11190.73,"end":11192.73,"text":"有時候中國答應要買你的白蝦"},{"start":11192.73,"end":11194.73,"text":"像宏都拉斯跳票"},{"start":11194.73,"end":11196.73,"text":"沒關係"},{"start":11195.79,"end":11197.79,"text":"宏都拉斯人民付出代價沒關係"},{"start":11197.79,"end":11199.79,"text":"但是他掌握keyman就好了"},{"start":11199.79,"end":11201.79,"text":"那keyman用什麼方式來掌握"},{"start":11201.79,"end":11203.79,"text":"那個眾說紛紜"},{"start":11203.79,"end":11205.79,"text":"所以有關芭拉圭的部分"},{"start":11205.79,"end":11207.79,"text":"我們外交部目前評估狀態"},{"start":11207.79,"end":11209.79,"text":"是怎麼樣"},{"start":11208.89,"end":11210.89,"text":"呃"},{"start":11210,"end":11212,"text":"因為我們的前駐芭拉圭大使"},{"start":11212,"end":11214,"text":"現在是拉美師長"},{"start":11214,"end":11216,"text":"待會請他補充"},{"start":11217.01,"end":11221.01,"text":"中共對芭拉圭要挖我們牆角是不擇手段"},{"start":11221.01,"end":11223.01,"text":"他動用的支援"},{"start":11223.01,"end":11225.01,"text":"那是非常可怕"},{"start":11225.01,"end":11227.01,"text":"可是為什麼今天台巴的關係還是穩定"},{"start":11227.01,"end":11229.01,"text":"包括貝尼亞總統"},{"start":11229.01,"end":11231.01,"text":"包括他們國會"},{"start":11231.01,"end":11233.01,"text":"因為他們要跟台灣合作是看到台灣"},{"start":11233.01,"end":11235.01,"text":"發展模式"},{"start":11235.01,"end":11237.01,"text":"所以在芭拉圭就是台灣模式對中國模式"},{"start":11237.01,"end":11239.01,"text":"在拉美的一個對決"},{"start":11239.01,"end":11241.01,"text":"所以最近包括宏都拉斯"},{"start":11241.01,"end":11243.01,"text":"他當然旁邊有"},{"start":11243.01,"end":11245.01,"text":"瓜地馬拉跟貝里斯就是鄰邦"},{"start":11245.01,"end":11247.01,"text":"所以我們跟對方比的不是"},{"start":11247.01,"end":11249.01,"text":"比金錢或比這個"},{"start":11249.01,"end":11251.01,"text":"這種霸權"},{"start":11251.01,"end":11253.01,"text":"而我們比的是台灣的"},{"start":11253.01,"end":11255.01,"text":"發展經驗的模式"},{"start":11255.01,"end":11257.01,"text":"所以芭拉圭我們現在做到龍幫計畫"},{"start":11257.01,"end":11259.01,"text":"包括八個旗艦"},{"start":11259.01,"end":11261.01,"text":"包括他的醫院有資訊系統"},{"start":11261.01,"end":11263.01,"text":"智慧醫院是全拉美最好的"},{"start":11263.01,"end":11265.01,"text":"我們在芭拉圭的龍幫計畫坦白講"},{"start":11265.01,"end":11267.01,"text":"做的相當不錯我有去拜訪那個"},{"start":11267.01,"end":11269.01,"text":"他現在是芭拉圭"},{"start":11269.01,"end":11271.01,"text":"駐美國的大使"},{"start":11271.01,"end":11273.01,"text":"江啟臣部院長也有組團去跨黨派"},{"start":11273.01,"end":11275.01,"text":"這個芭拉圭本身龍幫計畫是做的還不錯"},{"start":11275.01,"end":11277.01,"text":"那中國我不強調"},{"start":11277.01,"end":11279.01,"text":"所以你們現在目前評估"},{"start":11279.01,"end":11281.01,"text":"芭拉圭狀態還可以"},{"start":11281.01,"end":11283.01,"text":"那貝尼這個他們的總統那個"},{"start":11283.01,"end":11285.01,"text":"佩妮亞好邀請賴總統訪問的"},{"start":11285.01,"end":11287.01,"text":"邀請還持續中嗎"},{"start":11287.27,"end":11289.27,"text":"啊"},{"start":11288.2,"end":11290.2,"text":"對當然我們也要邀請他啦"},{"start":11291.59,"end":11293.59,"text":"他來"},{"start":11293.59,"end":11295.59,"text":"我相對看起來比較簡單"},{"start":11295.59,"end":11297.59,"text":"那我們總統出訪比較起來"},{"start":11297.59,"end":11299.59,"text":"要考慮比較多啦"},{"start":11299.59,"end":11301.59,"text":"所以芭拉圭的邀請還存在"},{"start":11302.66,"end":11304.66,"text":"對"},{"start":11304.66,"end":11306.66,"text":"那時候你團的嘛"},{"start":11306.66,"end":11308.66,"text":"來來來大使大使來"},{"start":11308.66,"end":11310.66,"text":"那時候邀請的時候你還是大使嘛"},{"start":11310.66,"end":11312.66,"text":"是芭拉圭的佩妮亞總統"},{"start":11312.66,"end":11314.66,"text":"從上台以後就一直不斷的"},{"start":11314.66,"end":11316.66,"text":"在公開或私下的場合"},{"start":11316.66,"end":11318.66,"text":"表達希望賴總統"},{"start":11318.66,"end":11320.66,"text":"有時間有機會能夠去訪問"},{"start":11320.66,"end":11322.66,"text":"今年會安排嗎"},{"start":11324.13,"end":11326.13,"text":"你這樣的笑容很燦爛"},{"start":11326.13,"end":11328.13,"text":"我們隨時在準備"},{"start":11328.13,"end":11330.13,"text":"但實際是適當的時候"},{"start":11330.13,"end":11332.13,"text":"有些要讓釜放來宣布"},{"start":11332.13,"end":11334.13,"text":"好啦謝謝"},{"start":11334.13,"end":11336.13,"text":"我覺得懂了啦"},{"start":11336.13,"end":11338.13,"text":"我最後兩個問題啦第一個是"},{"start":11338.13,"end":11340.13,"text":"史瓦蒂尼的基礎建設"},{"start":11340.13,"end":11342.13,"text":"因為他也跟非洲的"},{"start":11342.13,"end":11344.13,"text":"開發銀行申請"},{"start":11344.13,"end":11346.13,"text":"當然史瓦蒂尼"},{"start":11346.13,"end":11348.13,"text":"跟我們非常友好"},{"start":11348.13,"end":11350.13,"text":"那史瓦蒂尼呢"},{"start":11350.13,"end":11352.13,"text":"還是會跟非洲銀行申請一些"},{"start":11352.13,"end":11354.13,"text":"基建的計畫"},{"start":11354.13,"end":11356.13,"text":"現在他的那個佩克尼大壩的計畫"},{"start":11356.13,"end":11358.13,"text":"申請到42億台幣的"},{"start":11358.13,"end":11360.13,"text":"基建的融資"},{"start":11360.13,"end":11362.13,"text":"結果標到的是中國的"},{"start":11362.13,"end":11364.13,"text":"公司用低價"},{"start":11364.13,"end":11366.13,"text":"切到了"},{"start":11366.13,"end":11368.13,"text":"我剛才還是講那句話"},{"start":11368.13,"end":11370.13,"text":"中國會把經貿當外交工具"},{"start":11370.13,"end":11372.13,"text":"武器中國會把貪腐"},{"start":11372.13,"end":11374.13,"text":"當作外交機會"},{"start":11374.72,"end":11376.72,"text":"就你們判斷史瓦蒂尼"},{"start":11376.72,"end":11378.72,"text":"跟這個佩克尼大壩"},{"start":11378.72,"end":11380.72,"text":"對我們有沒有什麼"},{"start":11380.72,"end":11382.72,"text":"值得擔憂或關注的地方"},{"start":11382.72,"end":11384.72,"text":"我是非常關注啦"},{"start":11384.72,"end":11386.72,"text":"這個當然是"},{"start":11386.72,"end":11388.72,"text":"他們低價競標"},{"start":11388.72,"end":11390.72,"text":"我關注就是說這個大壩有沒有發電"},{"start":11390.72,"end":11392.72,"text":"如果發電後續的營運"},{"start":11392.72,"end":11394.72,"text":"可能中共就會進來"},{"start":11394.72,"end":11396.72,"text":"那還好這個大壩純粹是一個水壩"},{"start":11396.72,"end":11398.72,"text":"它沒有發電"},{"start":11398.72,"end":11400.72,"text":"再來就是我們現在"},{"start":11400.72,"end":11402.72,"text":"我們的龍幫計畫已經進入"},{"start":11402.72,"end":11404.72,"text":"這個史瓦蒂尼"},{"start":11404.72,"end":11406.72,"text":"就戰備儲油槽"},{"start":11406.72,"end":11408.72,"text":"那個計畫更大"},{"start":11408.72,"end":11410.72,"text":"所以我們也讓台灣的"},{"start":11410.72,"end":11412.72,"text":"包括OIDC啦"},{"start":11412.72,"end":11414.72,"text":"OECC啦還有包括"},{"start":11414.72,"end":11416.72,"text":"這個台灣世襲國會都進去"},{"start":11416.72,"end":11418.72,"text":"所以其實喔"},{"start":11418.72,"end":11420.72,"text":"也許那個壩弄起來我們台灣來幫他弄"},{"start":11420.72,"end":11422.72,"text":"發電也是一個方式啦"},{"start":11422.72,"end":11424.72,"text":"對後續我們都可以去接手"},{"start":11424.72,"end":11426.72,"text":"但是他們品質又不好我們不敢接"},{"start":11426.72,"end":11428.72,"text":"因為他們的壩有時候會破洞"},{"start":11428.72,"end":11430.72,"text":"壩破洞是會垮掉的"},{"start":11430.72,"end":11432.72,"text":"對啊那會好啊"},{"start":11432.72,"end":11434.72,"text":"那賠償啊包括"},{"start":11434.72,"end":11436.72,"text":"要花多啦"},{"start":11436.72,"end":11438.72,"text":"那個壩壞東西不要摸了"},{"start":11438.72,"end":11440.72,"text":"我最後提醒一句話"},{"start":11440.72,"end":11442.72,"text":"目前南韓的部分我們是採取"},{"start":11442.72,"end":11444.72,"text":"不升級對應的方式處理這是好的"},{"start":11444.72,"end":11446.72,"text":"但我提醒外交部還是要"},{"start":11446.72,"end":11448.72,"text":"一些實質的處理方式"},{"start":11448.72,"end":11450.72,"text":"因為韓國這種做法非常不禮貌"},{"start":11450.72,"end":11452.72,"text":"那當然有網友說"},{"start":11452.72,"end":11454.72,"text":"應該叫他南朝鮮"},{"start":11454.72,"end":11456.72,"text":"但我們未必要做到跟他們一樣"},{"start":11456.72,"end":11458.72,"text":"這樣失格的事情"},{"start":11458.72,"end":11460.72,"text":"所以韓國來講我們應該還有一些實質的工具"},{"start":11460.72,"end":11462.72,"text":"但是採取外交部"},{"start":11462.72,"end":11464.72,"text":"升高衝突的方式展現"},{"start":11464.72,"end":11466.72,"text":"國格我個人是給予支持"},{"start":11466.72,"end":11468.72,"text":"但這個事情應該要儘快"},{"start":11468.72,"end":11470.72,"text":"有一個處理方向"},{"start":11470.72,"end":11472.72,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":11473.2,"end":11475.2,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":11474.94,"end":11476.94,"text":"接下來請紐許廷委員上台諮詢"},{"start":11483.41,"end":11485.41,"text":"謝謝主席林部長有請"},{"start":11485.45,"end":11487.45,"text":"請林部長"},{"start":11494.34,"end":11496.34,"text":"回合好"},{"start":11495.62,"end":11497.62,"text":"部長剛剛黃建民委員有關心撤僑的問題"},{"start":11497.62,"end":11499.62,"text":"這本席也蠻關心的"},{"start":11499.62,"end":11501.62,"text":"我做幾個補充跟"},{"start":11501.62,"end":11503.62,"text":"再做一些比較詳細的一些提問"},{"start":11503.62,"end":11505.62,"text":"這一次這個"},{"start":11505.62,"end":11507.62,"text":"還有我們目前為止還有多少國民"},{"start":11507.62,"end":11509.62,"text":"或者是僑民等等留學生"},{"start":11509.62,"end":11511.62,"text":"甚至是旅客"},{"start":11511.62,"end":11513.62,"text":"目前以外交部的掌握還有多少人"},{"start":11513.62,"end":11515.62,"text":"滯留在伊朗及相關的海灣國家"},{"start":11515.62,"end":11517.62,"text":"目前我們如果估計是8個"},{"start":11517.62,"end":11519.62,"text":"管處當然相當"},{"start":11519.62,"end":11521.62,"text":"土耳其因為有些從那邊"},{"start":11521.62,"end":11523.62,"text":"土耳其不算我們有6個國家"},{"start":11523.62,"end":11525.62,"text":"7個管處"},{"start":11525.62,"end":11527.62,"text":"土耳其我們也把它放進來"},{"start":11527.62,"end":11529.62,"text":"周邊有時候轉機或者是需求"},{"start":11529.62,"end":11531.62,"text":"那我們的僑民"},{"start":11531.31,"end":11533.31,"text":"僑民總共有3千"},{"start":11533.31,"end":11535.31,"text":"3千人"},{"start":11535.31,"end":11537.31,"text":"我說現在還滯留的嘛"},{"start":11537.31,"end":11539.31,"text":"因為有一些回來了然後有一些還在"},{"start":11539.31,"end":11541.31,"text":"現在狀況怎麼樣"},{"start":11541.31,"end":11543.31,"text":"目前已經沒有滯留"},{"start":11543.31,"end":11545.31,"text":"那我們更重要的是說"},{"start":11545.31,"end":11547.31,"text":"他有沒有醫院想要離境"},{"start":11547.31,"end":11549.31,"text":"現在是沒有"},{"start":11549.31,"end":11551.31,"text":"一個都沒有大家都安全回來"},{"start":11551.31,"end":11553.31,"text":"這我們再來了解一下"},{"start":11553.31,"end":11555.31,"text":"因為剛剛這部長在答詢的時候"},{"start":11555.31,"end":11557.31,"text":"有講或者是說我們前面"},{"start":11557.31,"end":11559.31,"text":"不管是在新聞媒體或怎麼樣"},{"start":11559.31,"end":11561.31,"text":"也不是大家都用包機或等等的方式來處理"},{"start":11561.31,"end":11563.31,"text":"不過是這樣子嘛部長"},{"start":11563.31,"end":11565.31,"text":"其他國家針對僑民的撤離"},{"start":11565.31,"end":11567.31,"text":"跟當初在短時間內做的決策"},{"start":11567.31,"end":11569.31,"text":"你有了解嗎"},{"start":11569.31,"end":11571.31,"text":"所謂專機"},{"start":11571.31,"end":11573.31,"text":"當然有用軍機"},{"start":11573.31,"end":11575.31,"text":"有用民航機"},{"start":11575.31,"end":11577.31,"text":"看當地的情形"},{"start":11577.31,"end":11579.31,"text":"那我們初步調查是"},{"start":11579.31,"end":11581.31,"text":"在地的僑民"},{"start":11581.31,"end":11583.31,"text":"是沒有這個需求"},{"start":11583.31,"end":11585.31,"text":"因為他們當然也比較有經驗"},{"start":11585.31,"end":11587.31,"text":"可是旅行社帶的那些旅行團"},{"start":11587.31,"end":11589.31,"text":"所以一段時間內"},{"start":11589.31,"end":11591.31,"text":"因為要安置在那裡的時候"},{"start":11591.31,"end":11593.31,"text":"那我想"},{"start":11593.31,"end":11595.31,"text":"交通部"},{"start":11595.31,"end":11597.31,"text":"跟觀光署"},{"start":11597.31,"end":11599.31,"text":"因為他們是直接掌握旅行社"},{"start":11599.31,"end":11601.31,"text":"所以這個方面我們也跟他都很密切"},{"start":11601.31,"end":11603.31,"text":"我知道你也要"},{"start":11603.31,"end":11605.31,"text":"我不會太為難你外交人員"},{"start":11605.31,"end":11607.31,"text":"因為這本來就是第一個跨部會協調"},{"start":11607.31,"end":11609.31,"text":"第二我們的國際處境本來就比較狹窄"},{"start":11609.31,"end":11611.31,"text":"不過我還是要舉幾個例子"},{"start":11611.31,"end":11613.31,"text":"比如說日本就安排了先搭乘巴士"},{"start":11613.31,"end":11615.31,"text":"從陸路轉到一個相對安全的地方"},{"start":11615.31,"end":11617.31,"text":"然後有包機"},{"start":11617.31,"end":11619.31,"text":"可以回來我們還順便"},{"start":11619.31,"end":11621.31,"text":"幫忙了我們國民"},{"start":11621.31,"end":11623.31,"text":"然後都是一些好事"},{"start":11623.31,"end":11625.31,"text":"然後他們有準備軍用運輸機"},{"start":11625.31,"end":11627.31,"text":"然後以備所謂的不實之需"},{"start":11627.31,"end":11629.31,"text":"新加坡也一樣11號撤離218米"},{"start":11629.31,"end":11631.31,"text":"他一樣用包機的方式來做處理"},{"start":11631.31,"end":11633.31,"text":"其中一半就留學生"},{"start":11633.31,"end":11635.31,"text":"我剛剛有講留學生就是這樣"},{"start":11635.31,"end":11637.31,"text":"那也都有軍事上的準備"},{"start":11637.31,"end":11639.31,"text":"你總是要護航的嘛"},{"start":11639.31,"end":11641.31,"text":"那美國也有撤僑班機"},{"start":11641.31,"end":11643.31,"text":"法國是安排航班"},{"start":11643.31,"end":11645.31,"text":"所以我們現在下令軍用飛機先預做準備"},{"start":11645.31,"end":11647.31,"text":"那所以我講嘛"},{"start":11647.31,"end":11649.31,"text":"這件事情你總不能講說"},{"start":11649.31,"end":11651.31,"text":"其他國家都沒有做所以我們也不做"},{"start":11651.31,"end":11653.31,"text":"對不對這個在現在"},{"start":11653.31,"end":11655.31,"text":"我們雖然"},{"start":11655.31,"end":11657.31,"text":"階段性的任務已經完成了"},{"start":11657.31,"end":11659.31,"text":"但你確定後面都不會有事"},{"start":11659.31,"end":11661.31,"text":"大家安全無虞這個可不可以保證"},{"start":11661.31,"end":11663.31,"text":"戰爭還在發生中"},{"start":11663.31,"end":11665.31,"text":"所以我們也需要持續因應"},{"start":11665.31,"end":11667.31,"text":"所以有關於包機"},{"start":11667.31,"end":11669.31,"text":"以及可能的需求跟方式"},{"start":11669.31,"end":11671.31,"text":"行政院有在評估"},{"start":11671.31,"end":11673.31,"text":"因為這涉及跨部會"},{"start":11673.31,"end":11675.31,"text":"因為裡面都會有整體"},{"start":11675.31,"end":11677.31,"text":"這本級有沒有要求說你一定講"},{"start":11677.31,"end":11679.31,"text":"我也要派軍機"},{"start":11679.31,"end":11681.31,"text":"這一定要做好應變的準備"},{"start":11681.31,"end":11683.31,"text":"包括這個選項"},{"start":11683.31,"end":11685.31,"text":"但我希望第一個方法多元"},{"start":11685.31,"end":11687.31,"text":"第二個"},{"start":11687.31,"end":11689.31,"text":"如果其他國家做得到我們也要盡量做到"},{"start":11689.31,"end":11691.31,"text":"我不是講現在就一定要做"},{"start":11691.31,"end":11693.31,"text":"沒有需求不一定做"},{"start":11693.31,"end":11695.31,"text":"要有這個準備方案有這個能力去執行"},{"start":11695.31,"end":11697.31,"text":"如果需要的話"},{"start":11697.31,"end":11699.31,"text":"那再來剛剛也有提到有一些旅客"},{"start":11699.31,"end":11701.31,"text":"說他是透過中國東方航空回來"},{"start":11701.31,"end":11703.31,"text":"那他顯然是透過中國大使館的協助"},{"start":11703.31,"end":11705.31,"text":"我請教一下部長"},{"start":11705.31,"end":11707.31,"text":"這幾位旅客或者是旅行社當初有沒有"},{"start":11707.31,"end":11709.31,"text":"尋求我們外館的協助"},{"start":11709.31,"end":11711.31,"text":"我是說這個資訊我們都有掌握"},{"start":11711.31,"end":11713.31,"text":"然後他透過哪裡去轉機"},{"start":11713.31,"end":11715.31,"text":"我們先了解之後"},{"start":11715.31,"end":11717.31,"text":"哪些航班是有的"},{"start":11717.31,"end":11719.31,"text":"就像也有中國人透過我們台灣"},{"start":11719.31,"end":11721.31,"text":"來轉機的"},{"start":11721.31,"end":11723.31,"text":"我有在聽所以我了解"},{"start":11723.31,"end":11725.31,"text":"所以他沒有透過外交的"},{"start":11725.31,"end":11727.31,"text":"上海這個例子"},{"start":11727.31,"end":11729.31,"text":"基本上並沒有說有什麼樣的爭論"},{"start":11729.31,"end":11731.31,"text":"那因為盡快的讓當事人"},{"start":11731.31,"end":11733.31,"text":"可以選擇他認為最好的方式離境"},{"start":11733.31,"end":11735.31,"text":"我覺得這個是我們的共同目標"},{"start":11735.31,"end":11737.31,"text":"OK"},{"start":11737.31,"end":11739.31,"text":"所以部長可以基本上也是可以"},{"start":11739.31,"end":11741.31,"text":"怎麼評價這個是"},{"start":11741.31,"end":11743.31,"text":"我覺得這個轉機到任何地方"},{"start":11743.31,"end":11745.31,"text":"去只要是從戰場離開"},{"start":11745.31,"end":11747.31,"text":"我是覺得我們應該都要"},{"start":11747.31,"end":11749.31,"text":"支持啊"},{"start":11749.31,"end":11751.31,"text":"OK這我希望外交部這邊"},{"start":11751.31,"end":11753.31,"text":"你至少做一點不要讓這些人受到非難"},{"start":11753.31,"end":11755.31,"text":"因為你講這很敏感"},{"start":11755.31,"end":11757.31,"text":"大家考量什麼政治立場"},{"start":11757.31,"end":11759.31,"text":"你要比照日本還表達感謝之意"},{"start":11759.31,"end":11761.31,"text":"也太為難你們了這本席我不會強加於你"},{"start":11761.31,"end":11763.31,"text":"但問題是有些人講認知作戰"},{"start":11763.31,"end":11765.31,"text":"他會形成國安破口"},{"start":11765.31,"end":11767.31,"text":"甚至是側翼想要去攻擊"},{"start":11767.31,"end":11769.31,"text":"我覺得至少我們國安部可以確保這些人不要受非難"},{"start":11769.31,"end":11771.31,"text":"因為外交部已經公開表態"},{"start":11771.31,"end":11773.31,"text":"任何的方式只要能夠安全的"},{"start":11773.31,"end":11775.31,"text":"迅速的有效的"},{"start":11775.31,"end":11777.31,"text":"脫離混亂回到台灣"},{"start":11777.31,"end":11779.31,"text":"都應該要正面看待部長可以承諾這事嗎"},{"start":11779.31,"end":11781.31,"text":"對"},{"start":11781.31,"end":11783.31,"text":"在這地方公開承諾"},{"start":11783.31,"end":11785.31,"text":"趕快翻篇好不好"},{"start":11785.31,"end":11787.31,"text":"因為每個人處境都很特別"},{"start":11787.31,"end":11789.31,"text":"當事人最在乎他的生命跟安全"},{"start":11789.31,"end":11791.31,"text":"所以我們全力來協助他能夠離開"},{"start":11791.31,"end":11793.31,"text":"所以側翹這件事有兩個提醒"},{"start":11793.31,"end":11795.31,"text":"第一個戰事可能會延長"},{"start":11795.31,"end":11797.31,"text":"後面可能會有需求"},{"start":11797.31,"end":11799.31,"text":"不過我也在這裡呼籲"},{"start":11799.31,"end":11801.31,"text":"有些國人可能這個時候不要再過去"},{"start":11801.31,"end":11803.31,"text":"包括去旅遊或者是轉機"},{"start":11803.31,"end":11805.31,"text":"萬一又戰爭又升高"},{"start":11805.31,"end":11807.31,"text":"然後又困住了"},{"start":11807.31,"end":11809.31,"text":"降低風險是一環你該宣導要宣導"},{"start":11809.31,"end":11811.31,"text":"做好準備"},{"start":11811.31,"end":11813.31,"text":"第二"},{"start":11813.31,"end":11815.31,"text":"不管透過任何手段進來"},{"start":11815.31,"end":11817.31,"text":"不要再讓政治的立場去干擾這個事情"},{"start":11817.31,"end":11819.31,"text":"讓他可以順利"},{"start":11819.31,"end":11821.31,"text":"第二"},{"start":11821.31,"end":11823.31,"text":"花點時間跟部長探討一下國際局勢的一些變化"},{"start":11823.31,"end":11825.31,"text":"最近美國川普總統的"},{"start":11825.31,"end":11827.31,"text":"外交政策跟路線"},{"start":11827.31,"end":11829.31,"text":"跟傳統的外交圈子裡面認知"},{"start":11829.31,"end":11831.31,"text":"其實有非常大的落差"},{"start":11831.31,"end":11833.31,"text":"其中最重要的一點基本上就是"},{"start":11833.31,"end":11835.31,"text":"國際組織的參與"},{"start":11835.31,"end":11837.31,"text":"這個部長川普政府"},{"start":11837.31,"end":11839.31,"text":"參與國際組織是積極的嗎"},{"start":11839.82,"end":11841.82,"text":"他自己在行程以他們"},{"start":11841.82,"end":11843.82,"text":"國家的這個"},{"start":11843.82,"end":11845.82,"text":"為中心的"},{"start":11845.82,"end":11847.82,"text":"國際的聯盟組織"},{"start":11847.82,"end":11849.82,"text":"當然也退出了一些組織"},{"start":11849.82,"end":11851.82,"text":"這對我們來講有挑戰也有機會"},{"start":11851.82,"end":11853.82,"text":"OK 他退出了很多的組織"},{"start":11853.82,"end":11855.82,"text":"或者是用聚繳會費"},{"start":11855.82,"end":11857.82,"text":"或者是消極參與等等的方式"},{"start":11857.82,"end":11859.82,"text":"他其實是往後退 大的方向來"},{"start":11859.82,"end":11861.82,"text":"他的參與率是下降的"},{"start":11861.82,"end":11863.82,"text":"那剛剛部長很好 這是我正想問的問題"},{"start":11863.82,"end":11865.82,"text":"這個美國在這個地方"},{"start":11865.82,"end":11867.82,"text":"建區消極的這樣子的一個大環境下"},{"start":11867.82,"end":11869.82,"text":"我們參與國際組織的策略"},{"start":11869.82,"end":11871.82,"text":"要怎麼樣做因應"},{"start":11871.82,"end":11873.82,"text":"您剛剛講的所謂的機遇"},{"start":11873.82,"end":11875.82,"text":"或者是挑戰分別是什麼 請簡單說明一下"},{"start":11875.82,"end":11877.82,"text":"其實美國雖然退出一些國際組織"},{"start":11877.82,"end":11879.82,"text":"他還在聯合國 所以對於"},{"start":11879.82,"end":11881.82,"text":"比如說聯合國2758號解釋"},{"start":11881.82,"end":11883.82,"text":"他不但有更完整的"},{"start":11883.82,"end":11885.82,"text":"他還發函各個"},{"start":11885.82,"end":11887.82,"text":"這個使節團"},{"start":11887.82,"end":11889.82,"text":"那另外就是說他在行程中的"},{"start":11889.82,"end":11891.82,"text":"新的國際的組織或聯盟"},{"start":11891.82,"end":11893.82,"text":"比如說像系勝市"},{"start":11893.82,"end":11895.82,"text":"這種供應鏈 那當然跟半導體AI"},{"start":11895.82,"end":11897.82,"text":"有關 那我們就是變成裡面不可或缺的夥伴"},{"start":11897.82,"end":11899.82,"text":"這也是機會"},{"start":11899.82,"end":11901.82,"text":"那至於說你說我們原來想積極爭取的"},{"start":11901.82,"end":11903.82,"text":"一些國際組織"},{"start":11903.82,"end":11905.82,"text":"那美國退出之後 當然會有一定的影響"},{"start":11905.82,"end":11907.82,"text":"所以我們也會跟G7其他國家"},{"start":11907.82,"end":11909.82,"text":"在協商就是說"},{"start":11909.82,"end":11911.82,"text":"是不是由他們"},{"start":11911.82,"end":11913.82,"text":"比較有份量的國家"},{"start":11913.82,"end":11915.82,"text":"也能夠來領先 因為有時候要集體去洽"},{"start":11915.82,"end":11917.82,"text":"或者是支持我們的時候的一些行動"},{"start":11919.82,"end":11921.82,"text":"好 這個就剛好也是我要問"},{"start":11921.82,"end":11923.82,"text":"因為美國雖然退出很多國際組織"},{"start":11923.82,"end":11925.82,"text":"但是同時在2758號決議上面"},{"start":11925.82,"end":11927.82,"text":"他做了非常強的政治的表態"},{"start":11927.82,"end":11929.82,"text":"加大了一定的力道 但本席想要問的是"},{"start":11929.82,"end":11931.82,"text":"實質上他改變了什麼"},{"start":11931.82,"end":11933.82,"text":"比如說以聯合國來講 因為他對2758"},{"start":11933.82,"end":11935.82,"text":"全世界講這些東西不應該排除"},{"start":11935.82,"end":11937.82,"text":"台灣有意義的參與國際組織的各種方式"},{"start":11937.82,"end":11939.82,"text":"對不對 那我們長期以來"},{"start":11939.82,"end":11941.82,"text":"不管誰在執政的時候"},{"start":11941.82,"end":11943.82,"text":"大家都希望 比如說國際刑警組織"},{"start":11943.82,"end":11945.82,"text":"國際民航組織 大家可以用"},{"start":11945.82,"end":11947.82,"text":"實質參與的方式來做處理"},{"start":11947.82,"end":11949.82,"text":"那這段時間現在的進度如何"},{"start":11949.82,"end":11951.82,"text":"有沒有遇到狀況"},{"start":11951.82,"end":11953.82,"text":"這個組織是我們特別集中要爭取的"},{"start":11953.82,"end":11955.82,"text":"剛剛除了這個"},{"start":11955.82,"end":11957.82,"text":"RKO"},{"start":11957.82,"end":11959.82,"text":"或者Interpol EY"},{"start":11959.82,"end":11961.82,"text":"那當然他退出了UNFCCC"},{"start":11961.82,"end":11963.82,"text":"跟WHO"},{"start":11965.82,"end":11967.82,"text":"所以我們在這兩個是不一樣的處理方法"},{"start":11967.82,"end":11969.82,"text":"比如說以國際民航組織"},{"start":11969.82,"end":11971.82,"text":"跟國際刑警組織"},{"start":11971.82,"end":11973.82,"text":"其實沒有台灣 世界是會有一個漏洞"},{"start":11973.82,"end":11975.82,"text":"是阿 大家都這樣說"},{"start":11975.82,"end":11977.82,"text":"這個時候我是覺得他們對我們支持的力道"},{"start":11977.82,"end":11979.82,"text":"其實是有持續甚至增強"},{"start":11979.82,"end":11981.82,"text":"甚至包括日本"},{"start":11981.82,"end":11983.82,"text":"那在這個局面下面"},{"start":11983.82,"end":11985.82,"text":"比如說我們還是要想辦法加入"},{"start":11985.82,"end":11987.82,"text":"或是想辦法參與"},{"start":11987.82,"end":11989.82,"text":"國際刑警組織或民航組織也好"},{"start":11989.82,"end":11991.82,"text":"現在外交部的策略是怎麼樣 正面突破"},{"start":11991.82,"end":11993.82,"text":"因為我現在反正可能各個國家形成集團"},{"start":11993.82,"end":11995.82,"text":"跟陣營 所以我只要站在人多這邊"},{"start":11995.82,"end":11997.82,"text":"我正面突破 或者是"},{"start":11997.82,"end":11999.82,"text":"我要迂迴的參與 或者是因為"},{"start":11999.82,"end":12001.82,"text":"怎麼樣都繞不過中國大陸的打壓"},{"start":12001.82,"end":12003.82,"text":"所以我乾脆死了這條心 現在外交部打算"},{"start":12003.82,"end":12004.82,"text":"用什麼樣的策略"},{"start":12004.82,"end":12006.82,"text":"我認為紳士主席國是比較友善的國家"},{"start":12006.82,"end":12008.82,"text":"比如說國際民航組織"},{"start":12008.82,"end":12010.82,"text":"日本他們擔任主席"},{"start":12010.82,"end":12012.82,"text":"然後秘書處因為過去"},{"start":12012.82,"end":12014.82,"text":"有一些是中共長年的經營"},{"start":12014.82,"end":12016.82,"text":"他就掌控 所以我們"},{"start":12016.82,"end":12018.82,"text":"當然我們有道理是一回事"},{"start":12018.82,"end":12020.82,"text":"但這涉及到投票或涉及到政治力的角力"},{"start":12020.82,"end":12022.82,"text":"這個時候我們的議程"},{"start":12022.82,"end":12024.82,"text":"聚焦幾個國際組織"},{"start":12024.82,"end":12026.82,"text":"我們也要有策略"},{"start":12026.82,"end":12028.82,"text":"而不是說都是去扣門"},{"start":12028.82,"end":12030.82,"text":"結果都沒有進展"},{"start":12030.82,"end":12032.82,"text":"是啊是啊 所以正面突破可能有一些困難"},{"start":12032.82,"end":12034.82,"text":"對不對"},{"start":12034.82,"end":12036.82,"text":"另外我再跟委員補充"},{"start":12036.82,"end":12038.82,"text":"世界衛生組織"},{"start":12038.82,"end":12040.82,"text":"因為那時候江啟臣副院長"},{"start":12040.82,"end":12042.82,"text":"有希望說我們去辦自衛醫療展"},{"start":12042.82,"end":12044.82,"text":"我們的自衛醫療跟健康產業"},{"start":12044.82,"end":12046.82,"text":"我想在那裡就形成"},{"start":12046.82,"end":12048.82,"text":"今年預期"},{"start":12048.82,"end":12050.82,"text":"我們也期待如果委員們能夠到場去指導"},{"start":12050.82,"end":12052.82,"text":"但是美國"},{"start":12052.82,"end":12054.82,"text":"也在"},{"start":12054.82,"end":12056.82,"text":"也可能會形成新的"},{"start":12056.82,"end":12058.82,"text":"這種跟"},{"start":12058.82,"end":12060.82,"text":"世界衛生組織"},{"start":12060.82,"end":12062.82,"text":"性質相近的"},{"start":12062.82,"end":12064.82,"text":"組織的時候"},{"start":12064.82,"end":12066.82,"text":"我們總是準備好"},{"start":12066.82,"end":12068.82,"text":"我們也可以"},{"start":12068.82,"end":12070.82,"text":"這個時候就是"},{"start":12070.82,"end":12072.82,"text":"有時候是挑戰有時候是機會"},{"start":12072.82,"end":12074.82,"text":"我們也要做好各種準備"},{"start":12074.82,"end":12076.82,"text":"剛剛部長提到四大組織"},{"start":12076.82,"end":12078.82,"text":"因為今天時間比較有限"},{"start":12078.82,"end":12080.82,"text":"四大組織的參與策略"},{"start":12080.82,"end":12082.82,"text":"你會提供一份報告"},{"start":12082.82,"end":12084.82,"text":"讓我們做長期追蹤跟瞭解"},{"start":12084.82,"end":12086.82,"text":"因為我們也希望有突破"},{"start":12086.82,"end":12088.82,"text":"哪怕你只是迂迴參與"},{"start":12088.82,"end":12090.82,"text":"我覺得都是在外交上都可以或多或少加分"},{"start":12090.82,"end":12092.82,"text":"我們沒有要求一定要突破"},{"start":12092.82,"end":12094.82,"text":"我都非常清楚"},{"start":12094.82,"end":12096.82,"text":"最後一個問題就是剛剛部長提到"},{"start":12096.82,"end":12098.82,"text":"因為國際局勢的改變"},{"start":12098.82,"end":12100.82,"text":"美國策略的改變"},{"start":12100.82,"end":12102.82,"text":"很多時候它可能變成多邊轉雙邊"},{"start":12102.82,"end":12104.82,"text":"比如說最近恆武之海峽的狀況"},{"start":12104.82,"end":12106.82,"text":"顯然"},{"start":12106.82,"end":12108.82,"text":"大家都想說照理來講"},{"start":12108.82,"end":12110.82,"text":"過去應該要共同國際社會"},{"start":12110.82,"end":12112.82,"text":"共同處理來確保海峽航路的暢通"},{"start":12112.82,"end":12114.82,"text":"但為甚麼沒辦法處理"},{"start":12114.82,"end":12116.82,"text":"我想跟我剛剛提到的"},{"start":12116.82,"end":12118.82,"text":"美國撤出國際組織降低參與"},{"start":12118.82,"end":12120.82,"text":"你少了一個很大的平台"},{"start":12120.82,"end":12122.82,"text":"所以就變成美國要個別"},{"start":12122.82,"end":12124.82,"text":"雙邊去找各個國家來協調這件事情"},{"start":12124.82,"end":12126.82,"text":"那顯然以現在的消息"},{"start":12126.82,"end":12128.82,"text":"露出來講好像不是特別的順利"},{"start":12128.82,"end":12130.82,"text":"大家對於這件事情"},{"start":12130.82,"end":12132.82,"text":"心態是比較保留的"},{"start":12132.82,"end":12134.82,"text":"我覺得也合理啊"},{"start":12134.82,"end":12136.82,"text":"因為從外交角度大家以本國利益為優先的情況之下"},{"start":12136.82,"end":12138.82,"text":"我幹嘛去擔負這樣子的一個高風險"},{"start":12138.82,"end":12140.82,"text":"的這樣子的一個狀況呢"},{"start":12140.82,"end":12142.82,"text":"所以這是一個大的問題"},{"start":12142.82,"end":12144.82,"text":"但我要提醒部長"},{"start":12144.82,"end":12146.82,"text":"當大家"},{"start":12146.07,"end":12148.07,"text":"這個"},{"start":12147.04,"end":12149.04,"text":"外交的這個專業的人員"},{"start":12149.04,"end":12151.04,"text":"做了共同的考慮"},{"start":12151.04,"end":12153.04,"text":"所以不管是多邊跟雙邊這條暫時都陷入僵局"},{"start":12153.04,"end":12155.04,"text":"走不通的時候"},{"start":12155.04,"end":12157.04,"text":"有台灣內部竟然有一群人說"},{"start":12157.04,"end":12159.04,"text":"我們要率先響應這樣的一個協議"},{"start":12159.04,"end":12161.04,"text":"甚至要派武力等等"},{"start":12161.04,"end":12163.04,"text":"去響應川普總統的"},{"start":12163.04,"end":12165.04,"text":"的說法"},{"start":12165.04,"end":12167.04,"text":"然後認為這樣可以帶來新的外交突破"},{"start":12167.04,"end":12169.04,"text":"部長從外交的專業來講"},{"start":12169.04,"end":12171.04,"text":"或者是各位外交部的人員可以來做補充"},{"start":12171.04,"end":12173.04,"text":"這樣的說法對台灣的安全也好"},{"start":12173.04,"end":12175.04,"text":"或者是對國際利益來講是有幫助的嘛"},{"start":12175.42,"end":12177.42,"text":"外交一定以自己的國家利益"},{"start":12177.42,"end":12179.42,"text":"還有包括主權跟安全"},{"start":12179.42,"end":12181.42,"text":"為出發點"},{"start":12181.42,"end":12183.42,"text":"所以第一個"},{"start":12183.42,"end":12185.42,"text":"美國也沒有"},{"start":12185.42,"end":12187.42,"text":"邀請"},{"start":12187.42,"end":12189.42,"text":"再來就是說我們的角色"},{"start":12189.42,"end":12191.42,"text":"我們比較不是透過軍事方式"},{"start":12191.42,"end":12193.42,"text":"我們我想台灣的外交"},{"start":12193.42,"end":12195.42,"text":"走的出去跟我們整體"},{"start":12195.42,"end":12197.42,"text":"我想"},{"start":12197.42,"end":12199.42,"text":"比較不是在軍事方面"},{"start":12199.42,"end":12201.42,"text":"的角色"},{"start":12201.42,"end":12203.42,"text":"但是安全面"},{"start":12203.42,"end":12205.42,"text":"我們也有很多情報的交換"},{"start":12205.42,"end":12207.42,"text":"各種可能"},{"start":12207.42,"end":12209.42,"text":"包括像你看"},{"start":12209.42,"end":12211.42,"text":"二戰爭對不對"},{"start":12211.42,"end":12213.42,"text":"我們也是有一些我們可以做的事情"},{"start":12213.42,"end":12215.42,"text":"那也在確保我們國家的利益"},{"start":12215.42,"end":12217.42,"text":"跟這個委員"},{"start":12217.42,"end":12219.42,"text":"所以因為美國沒有邀請"},{"start":12219.42,"end":12221.42,"text":"也不太適合對不對"},{"start":12221.42,"end":12223.42,"text":"其實部長這個我也不多為難你"},{"start":12223.42,"end":12225.42,"text":"但你看我點了這個事情跟剛剛我講的"},{"start":12225.42,"end":12227.42,"text":"因為那會捲入一個我們比較"},{"start":12227.42,"end":12229.42,"text":"不能夠掌握的"},{"start":12229.42,"end":12231.42,"text":"一個戰場"},{"start":12231.42,"end":12233.42,"text":"那一部分也希望外交部適時的有一些"},{"start":12233.42,"end":12235.42,"text":"比較合理的說法"},{"start":12235.42,"end":12237.42,"text":"我常講國防題目跟外交題目"},{"start":12237.42,"end":12239.42,"text":"不要有太多政治的色彩去介入的時候"},{"start":12239.42,"end":12241.42,"text":"它其實推動會比較順利"},{"start":12241.42,"end":12243.42,"text":"專業才會比較被尊重"},{"start":12243.42,"end":12245.42,"text":"外交就是多交朋友少"},{"start":12245.42,"end":12247.42,"text":"少找敵人"},{"start":12247.42,"end":12249.42,"text":"少數敵人"},{"start":12249.42,"end":12251.42,"text":"對朋友多多敵人少少"},{"start":12251.42,"end":12253.42,"text":"所以我想不管是剛剛我講的側橋題目"},{"start":12253.42,"end":12255.42,"text":"有一些人透過中國大陸的角度"},{"start":12255.42,"end":12257.42,"text":"就不要讓他們受到"},{"start":12257.42,"end":12259.42,"text":"非議跟責難或者是我講和姆茲海牙"},{"start":12259.42,"end":12261.42,"text":"所以如果有一些基於短視的政治利益"},{"start":12261.42,"end":12263.42,"text":"然後去搞煽動跟操作"},{"start":12263.42,"end":12265.42,"text":"這時候外交部要適時的站在專業的立場"},{"start":12265.42,"end":12267.42,"text":"以國家利益為主"},{"start":12267.42,"end":12269.42,"text":"不會影響很衝擊因為涉及到能源"},{"start":12269.42,"end":12271.42,"text":"我們確實是要很專注的做一些因應"},{"start":12271.42,"end":12273.42,"text":"但是不能亂搞"},{"start":12273.42,"end":12275.42,"text":"好提幾個事情提醒部長"},{"start":12275.42,"end":12277.42,"text":"也謝謝部長詳細的回答"},{"start":12277.42,"end":12279.42,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":12278.95,"end":12280.95,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":12281.11,"end":12283.11,"text":"接下來請林楚英委員上台諮詢"},{"start":12298.53,"end":12300.53,"text":"謝謝主席主席要請林部長"},{"start":12300.53,"end":12302.53,"text":"請林部長"},{"start":12307.78,"end":12309.78,"text":"部長午安"},{"start":12309.78,"end":12311.78,"text":"從早上到現在剛好中午12點鐘了"},{"start":12311.78,"end":12313.78,"text":"輪到我質詢"},{"start":12313.78,"end":12315.78,"text":"我想幾個十四題"},{"start":12315.78,"end":12317.78,"text":"我想前面的委員們都已經"},{"start":12317.78,"end":12319.78,"text":"針對部長來進行質詢了"},{"start":12319.78,"end":12321.78,"text":"不過有關於韓國的這一題"},{"start":12321.78,"end":12323.78,"text":"我想進一步的來"},{"start":12323.78,"end":12325.78,"text":"提醒的是確實"},{"start":12325.78,"end":12327.78,"text":"韓國這樣的一個"},{"start":12327.78,"end":12329.78,"text":"做法是傷害了蠻多"},{"start":12329.78,"end":12331.78,"text":"台灣朋友尤其是台灣年輕朋友的感情"},{"start":12331.78,"end":12333.78,"text":"因為我們都知道"},{"start":12333.78,"end":12335.78,"text":"不論是韓國的娛樂產業來台灣"},{"start":12335.78,"end":12337.78,"text":"發展這個"},{"start":12337.78,"end":12339.78,"text":"很多的這個女子團體啊等等"},{"start":12339.78,"end":12341.78,"text":"來這邊開演唱會"},{"start":12341.78,"end":12343.78,"text":"台灣的年輕人都很支持"},{"start":12343.78,"end":12345.78,"text":"那麼台灣到韓國去旅遊的年輕人"},{"start":12345.78,"end":12347.78,"text":"更多"},{"start":12347.78,"end":12349.78,"text":"這樣的一個做法其實確實會"},{"start":12349.78,"end":12351.78,"text":"我們造成一些影響"},{"start":12351.78,"end":12353.78,"text":"尤其是民間的交流"},{"start":12353.78,"end":12355.78,"text":"是非常熱絡的"},{"start":12355.78,"end":12357.78,"text":"我想要比較具體的來提出來是說"},{"start":12357.78,"end":12359.78,"text":"其實韓國的民間"},{"start":12359.78,"end":12361.78,"text":"對於台灣同樣比如說我們去的很多"},{"start":12361.78,"end":12363.78,"text":"但是韓國來這裡"},{"start":12363.78,"end":12365.78,"text":"根據我剛剛特別要的一個最新的資料是"},{"start":12365.78,"end":12367.78,"text":"如果以去年來看的話"},{"start":12367.78,"end":12369.78,"text":"韓國是訪台的人數是第三名"},{"start":12369.78,"end":12371.78,"text":"那麼在今年來講的話韓國"},{"start":12371.78,"end":12373.78,"text":"已經要升為第一名了"},{"start":12373.78,"end":12375.78,"text":"言下之意兩邊的交流互動"},{"start":12375.78,"end":12377.78,"text":"是非常頻繁的"},{"start":12377.78,"end":12379.78,"text":"就像部長您剛剛也說了"},{"start":12379.78,"end":12381.78,"text":"我們在外交上面就是多交一點朋友"},{"start":12381.78,"end":12383.78,"text":"那麼我是非常肯定就是說"},{"start":12383.78,"end":12385.78,"text":"外交部這些年來不斷的在透過"},{"start":12385.78,"end":12387.78,"text":"所謂雙邊互惠的方式"},{"start":12387.78,"end":12389.78,"text":"包括我相信現在很多的"},{"start":12389.78,"end":12391.78,"text":"年輕朋友可能去韓國去旅遊"},{"start":12391.78,"end":12393.78,"text":"其實現在很多的年輕朋友可能去韓國"},{"start":12393.78,"end":12395.78,"text":"是可以直接用快速空關"},{"start":12395.78,"end":12397.78,"text":"那麼我們也看到了兩邊的這個"},{"start":12397.78,"end":12399.78,"text":"互惠的狀況呢"},{"start":12399.78,"end":12401.78,"text":"是持續在增加"},{"start":12401.78,"end":12403.78,"text":"我比較想問的是喔"},{"start":12403.78,"end":12405.78,"text":"在我們跟"},{"start":12405.78,"end":12407.78,"text":"一些國家雖然也許"},{"start":12407.78,"end":12409.78,"text":"在正式的公文交流上面"},{"start":12409.78,"end":12411.78,"text":"確實受到一些阻礙"},{"start":12411.78,"end":12413.78,"text":"但是在實質上面的"},{"start":12413.99,"end":12415.99,"text":"這些互惠是有進展的"},{"start":12415.99,"end":12417.99,"text":"首先包括像"},{"start":12417.99,"end":12419.99,"text":"我們現在的這些動作會不會影響到"},{"start":12419.99,"end":12421.99,"text":"接下來包括我們雙邊互惠"},{"start":12421.99,"end":12423.99,"text":"使用所謂的"},{"start":12423.99,"end":12425.99,"text":"快速通關自動通關"},{"start":12425.99,"end":12427.99,"text":"這樣的一些比較實質的部分"},{"start":12427.99,"end":12429.99,"text":"那麼第二個問題當然就是我們也看到"},{"start":12429.99,"end":12431.99,"text":"2025年連紐西蘭其實我們也都有"},{"start":12431.99,"end":12433.99,"text":"快速通關我現在列出來的像"},{"start":12433.99,"end":12435.99,"text":"美國、澳洲、義大利、德國"},{"start":12435.99,"end":12437.99,"text":"新加坡、馬來西亞可是可能"},{"start":12437.99,"end":12439.99,"text":"很多朋友並不知道啦"},{"start":12439.69,"end":12441.69,"text":"但是如果有商務上使用的人"},{"start":12441.69,"end":12443.69,"text":"會了解那麼在這個部分喔"},{"start":12443.69,"end":12445.69,"text":"部長你怎麼來研判"},{"start":12446.64,"end":12448.64,"text":"其實台灣的關係是很密切"},{"start":12448.64,"end":12450.64,"text":"也相當有互補性"},{"start":12450.64,"end":12452.64,"text":"所以我想"},{"start":12452.64,"end":12454.64,"text":"作為政府啦我們都是在"},{"start":12454.64,"end":12456.64,"text":"促進就是不然人流物流"},{"start":12456.64,"end":12458.64,"text":"金流交通流等等"},{"start":12458.64,"end":12460.64,"text":"但是因為涉及到我們"},{"start":12460.64,"end":12462.64,"text":"國家的這個"},{"start":12462.64,"end":12464.64,"text":"地位"},{"start":12464.64,"end":12466.64,"text":"因為這涉及到兩邊"},{"start":12466.64,"end":12468.64,"text":"他單方面這樣子用"},{"start":12468.64,"end":12470.64,"text":"我們認為這不適合"},{"start":12470.64,"end":12472.64,"text":"我們也跟他交涉"},{"start":12472.64,"end":12474.64,"text":"他現在也知道就是在處理中"},{"start":12475.72,"end":12477.72,"text":"好所以喔在這個部分喔"},{"start":12477.72,"end":12479.72,"text":"我必須要肯定的是說其實在"},{"start":12479.72,"end":12481.72,"text":"被拉高成為"},{"start":12481.72,"end":12483.72,"text":"政治層次的問題的時候"},{"start":12483.72,"end":12485.72,"text":"或外交層次問題的時候呢"},{"start":12485.72,"end":12487.72,"text":"當然我們必須要展現我們國家"},{"start":12487.72,"end":12489.72,"text":"應有的主權的對外發聲"},{"start":12489.72,"end":12491.72,"text":"但是呢"},{"start":12491.72,"end":12493.72,"text":"持續的就是民間交流的部分"},{"start":12493.72,"end":12495.72,"text":"我們也當然希望不要受到影響"},{"start":12495.72,"end":12497.72,"text":"因為兩邊可以看得出來"},{"start":12497.72,"end":12499.72,"text":"彼此之間的這個交往民間是"},{"start":12499.72,"end":12501.72,"text":"很熱絡的好那麼另外"},{"start":12501.72,"end":12503.72,"text":"一個我要肯定的是其實"},{"start":12503.72,"end":12505.72,"text":"這兩天喔包括"},{"start":12505.72,"end":12507.72,"text":"16 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:12891.5,"text":"在這裡提醒的是喔對於"},{"start":12891.5,"end":12893.5,"text":"民眾自發性的自己"},{"start":12893.5,"end":12895.5,"text":"在面對現在的這樣一個中東"},{"start":12895.5,"end":12897.5,"text":"的局勢跟狀況外交部除了"},{"start":12897.5,"end":12899.5,"text":"市井之外我們是一個自由"},{"start":12899.5,"end":12901.5,"text":"的國家我們不可能限制人民說"},{"start":12901.5,"end":12903.5,"text":"那不要去那不可以去我們"},{"start":12903.5,"end":12905.5,"text":"只能用燈號來做示警"},{"start":12905.5,"end":12907.5,"text":"可是第一個包括救助的系統"},{"start":12907.5,"end":12909.5,"text":"如何的讓民眾了解"},{"start":12909.5,"end":12911.5,"text":"如何來救援求援之外"},{"start":12911.5,"end":12913.5,"text":"是不是外交部也應該"},{"start":12913.5,"end":12915.5,"text":"跟交通部相關的單位"},{"start":12915.5,"end":12917.5,"text":"對於這些"},{"start":12917.5,"end":12919.5,"text":"有一些業者他們"},{"start":12919.5,"end":12921.5,"text":"用這種方式逼的"},{"start":12921.5,"end":12923.5,"text":"已經付錢的這個國人"},{"start":12923.5,"end":12925.5,"text":"我訂金不來就算了"},{"start":12925.5,"end":12927.5,"text":"我還要再額外"},{"start":12927.89,"end":12929.89,"text":"一筆什麼費用"},{"start":12929.89,"end":12931.89,"text":"像這樣的狀況會逼著"},{"start":12931.89,"end":12933.89,"text":"民眾往前走那這個部分"},{"start":12933.89,"end":12935.89,"text":"有沒有可能透過外交部"},{"start":12935.89,"end":12937.89,"text":"交通部能夠"},{"start":12937.89,"end":12939.89,"text":"了解有沒有這樣的狀況因為我"},{"start":12939.89,"end":12941.89,"text":"現在看到問題的"},{"start":12941.89,"end":12943.89,"text":"關鍵啦我舉"},{"start":12943.89,"end":12945.89,"text":"一個例子分享當然我是"},{"start":12945.89,"end":12947.89,"text":"外交部長我不是先前的交通部長"},{"start":12947.89,"end":12949.89,"text":"不過在這個所謂"},{"start":12949.89,"end":12951.89,"text":"武漢肺炎疫情發生的第一"},{"start":12951.89,"end":12953.89,"text":"時間我們要"},{"start":12953.89,"end":12955.89,"text":"管制禁止"},{"start":12955.89,"end":12957.89,"text":"一些航班"},{"start":12957.89,"end":12959.89,"text":"那也影響到旅行社"},{"start":12959.89,"end":12961.89,"text":"旅行社其實都很有組織"},{"start":12961.89,"end":12963.89,"text":"我們可以跟他們的工協會討論"},{"start":12963.89,"end":12965.89,"text":"做適當的"},{"start":12965.89,"end":12967.89,"text":"一個補貼"},{"start":12967.89,"end":12969.89,"text":"然後他們少損失一點"},{"start":12969.89,"end":12971.89,"text":"但也不要都有他們出"},{"start":12971.89,"end":12973.89,"text":"他們會轉嫁給旅客"},{"start":12973.89,"end":12975.89,"text":"旅客就是說我不去我就"},{"start":12975.89,"end":12977.89,"text":"就虧了可是我去"},{"start":12977.89,"end":12979.89,"text":"又有一些風險"},{"start":12979.89,"end":12981.89,"text":"我覺得在這個關鍵時刻"},{"start":12981.89,"end":12983.89,"text":"我想大家都了解"},{"start":12983.89,"end":12985.89,"text":"政府如果可以出面"},{"start":12985.89,"end":12987.89,"text":"透過旅行社"},{"start":12987.89,"end":12989.89,"text":"然後讓這些已經訂票"},{"start":12989.89,"end":12991.89,"text":"要出遊的大家都能夠"},{"start":12991.89,"end":12993.89,"text":"減少一點損失"},{"start":12993.89,"end":12995.89,"text":"這個可能會"},{"start":12995.89,"end":12997.89,"text":"避免現在又有"},{"start":12997.89,"end":12999.89,"text":"不少人又要去度拜"},{"start":12999.89,"end":13001.89,"text":"這個也是一個對我們外交部"},{"start":13001.89,"end":13003.89,"text":"來講"},{"start":13003.89,"end":13005.89,"text":"只有的才處理完兩千四百多個"},{"start":13005.89,"end":13007.89,"text":"現在新的又一支出現"},{"start":13007.89,"end":13009.89,"text":"這個是因為已經"},{"start":13009.89,"end":13011.89,"text":"戰爭發生三個禮拜了不是說剛發生"},{"start":13011.89,"end":13013.89,"text":"所以我們也不能說"},{"start":13013.89,"end":13015.89,"text":"請大家都一定不行"},{"start":13015.89,"end":13017.89,"text":"因為我們是一個法治的社會"},{"start":13017.89,"end":13019.89,"text":"所以倒是"},{"start":13019.89,"end":13021.89,"text":"一個整體算一下"},{"start":13021.89,"end":13023.89,"text":"看多少預算可以處理"},{"start":13023.89,"end":13025.89,"text":"這是委員您的建議"},{"start":13025.89,"end":13027.89,"text":"我是非常抱歉 因為特別提出來質詢"},{"start":13027.89,"end":13029.89,"text":"就是說因為剛剛前面好多委員都在講"},{"start":13029.89,"end":13031.89,"text":"是不是處理好了有沒有處理完了"},{"start":13031.89,"end":13033.89,"text":"現在也都講了都處理好了"},{"start":13033.89,"end":13035.89,"text":"我們現在就是要面對這樣的狀況"},{"start":13035.89,"end":13037.89,"text":"因為戰爭什麼要停止我們無法決定"},{"start":13037.89,"end":13039.89,"text":"但是至少我們要認知到"},{"start":13039.89,"end":13045.89,"text":"確實在民間還有可能潛在的會進行旅遊或移動的"},{"start":13045.89,"end":13047.89,"text":"那這裡本席通過質詢也要提醒外交部"},{"start":13047.89,"end":13049.89,"text":"雖然這不是外交部主責"},{"start":13049.89,"end":13051.89,"text":"但是外交部絕對必須要跟交通部"},{"start":13051.89,"end":13053.89,"text":"來做一個通盤的了解"},{"start":13053.89,"end":13055.89,"text":"好嗎那因為時間到了後面還有委員"},{"start":13055.89,"end":13057.89,"text":"所以我的質詢就到這裡"},{"start":13057.89,"end":13059.89,"text":"謝謝委員保護了一切"},{"start":13059.89,"end":13061.89,"text":"是不是在讓本席以及委員會知道"},{"start":13061.89,"end":13063.89,"text":"好不好謝謝"},{"start":13065.07,"end":13069.07,"text":"我們接下來請賴氏保護委員上台質詢"},{"start":13069.49,"end":13071.49,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":13076.78,"end":13078.78,"text":"謝謝主席以及各位先進"},{"start":13078.78,"end":13080.78,"text":"有請外交部的林部長"},{"start":13080.78,"end":13082.78,"text":"請林部長"},{"start":13087.44,"end":13089.44,"text":"回好"},{"start":13089.44,"end":13091.44,"text":"部長你好春風滿面"},{"start":13091.63,"end":13093.63,"text":"來"},{"start":13093.63,"end":13095.63,"text":"最近你很紅啊"},{"start":13095.63,"end":13097.63,"text":"你講到你那個回應那個"},{"start":13097.63,"end":13099.63,"text":"千娜、瓜虎、台灣、瓜虎"},{"start":13099.63,"end":13101.63,"text":"這個事情"},{"start":13102.34,"end":13106.34,"text":"你說三月底之前會他們會善意回應嗎"},{"start":13106.14,"end":13108.14,"text":"他們外交部有表示"},{"start":13108.14,"end":13110.14,"text":"會怎麼樣會怎麼樣回應"},{"start":13110.14,"end":13112.14,"text":"他知道我們的立場"},{"start":13112.14,"end":13114.14,"text":"那他們研究跟相關的單位"},{"start":13114.14,"end":13116.14,"text":"諮商之後"},{"start":13116.14,"end":13118.14,"text":"來回覆"},{"start":13118.14,"end":13120.14,"text":"他們要收回去嗎"},{"start":13119.71,"end":13123.71,"text":"你說三月底會有回覆是什麼"},{"start":13123.71,"end":13125.71,"text":"那我們有跟他這個交涉"},{"start":13125.71,"end":13127.71,"text":"我們要什麼"},{"start":13127.71,"end":13129.71,"text":"也告訴他說我們當然"},{"start":13129.71,"end":13131.71,"text":"要壓個時間"},{"start":13131.71,"end":13133.71,"text":"不然無限期拖下去"},{"start":13133.71,"end":13135.71,"text":"雖然他們現在已經有暫緩"},{"start":13135.71,"end":13137.71,"text":"把紙本跟這個電子"},{"start":13137.71,"end":13139.71,"text":"這個卡整合"},{"start":13139.71,"end":13141.71,"text":"整電子卡"},{"start":13141.71,"end":13143.71,"text":"但是這個動作"},{"start":13143.71,"end":13145.71,"text":"也代表他有重視我們的意見"},{"start":13145.71,"end":13147.71,"text":"那訴求是我們訴求"},{"start":13147.71,"end":13149.71,"text":"就是什麼啦我們的訴求"},{"start":13149.71,"end":13151.71,"text":"就是尊重我們的意見"},{"start":13151.71,"end":13153.71,"text":"所以要寫什麼我們要反散中國台灣啊"},{"start":13154.37,"end":13156.37,"text":"不要把我們變成中國台灣"},{"start":13156.37,"end":13158.37,"text":"不要寫中國寫台灣就好了"},{"start":13158.37,"end":13160.37,"text":"是這個意思嗎"},{"start":13160.37,"end":13162.37,"text":"我們在世界各國大部分都是這樣子"},{"start":13162.37,"end":13164.37,"text":"要講清楚啊你訴求沒有聽清楚"},{"start":13164.37,"end":13166.37,"text":"川普也這樣講台灣是台灣"},{"start":13166.37,"end":13168.37,"text":"好啦"},{"start":13168.39,"end":13170.39,"text":"沒關係你這樣講"},{"start":13170.39,"end":13172.39,"text":"可是你現在說很大聲"},{"start":13173.15,"end":13175.15,"text":"動作很虛"},{"start":13175.15,"end":13177.15,"text":"人家講你掐了關乎台灣"},{"start":13177.15,"end":13179.15,"text":"這是實打實"},{"start":13179.15,"end":13181.15,"text":"這叫實錘"},{"start":13181.77,"end":13183.77,"text":"按照你的觀點就把你矮化"},{"start":13183.77,"end":13185.77,"text":"這實錘可是你說"},{"start":13185.77,"end":13187.77,"text":"我要稱它為南韓這個虛的"},{"start":13188.78,"end":13190.78,"text":"虛虛的"},{"start":13190.03,"end":13192.03,"text":"這把韓國白書是南韓啦"},{"start":13192.4,"end":13194.4,"text":"這個來講的話你隨便去Google"},{"start":13194.4,"end":13196.4,"text":"隨便去看這是一個中心名詞"},{"start":13196.4,"end":13198.4,"text":"沒有任何的海話"},{"start":13198.4,"end":13200.4,"text":"報告點員他們接受了大韓民國啦"},{"start":13201.57,"end":13203.57,"text":"不管怎麼樣你把它講南韓"},{"start":13203.57,"end":13205.57,"text":"說南韓他可以接受啊你隨便去看"},{"start":13205.57,"end":13207.57,"text":"隨便去看"},{"start":13207.57,"end":13209.57,"text":"報告點員十年前他跟我們拜託再拜託"},{"start":13209.57,"end":13211.57,"text":"就是不要叫他們南韓"},{"start":13211.57,"end":13213.57,"text":"叫大韓民國啊"},{"start":13214.22,"end":13216.22,"text":"簡稱韓國耶"},{"start":13216.22,"end":13218.22,"text":"你要真的去用這個來講"},{"start":13218.22,"end":13220.22,"text":"我們叫做實錘的話"},{"start":13220.22,"end":13222.22,"text":"應該講什麼北朝鮮關乎南韓"},{"start":13222.22,"end":13224.22,"text":"這樣"},{"start":13224.22,"end":13226.22,"text":"這個我建議我們是不是要待會反應"},{"start":13226.22,"end":13228.22,"text":"如果你要反應我們也一切啦"},{"start":13228.22,"end":13230.22,"text":"這個東西對不對"},{"start":13230.22,"end":13232.22,"text":"如果你把它做成絕對的話"},{"start":13232.22,"end":13234.22,"text":"增加我們談判的空間"},{"start":13234.22,"end":13236.22,"text":"增加你空間嘛"},{"start":13236.22,"end":13238.22,"text":"這個才實錘嘛"},{"start":13238.22,"end":13240.22,"text":"人家實錘你是虛的"},{"start":13240.22,"end":13242.22,"text":"南韓這東西你隨便Google"},{"start":13242.22,"end":13244.22,"text":"南韓中信名稱"},{"start":13244.22,"end":13246.22,"text":"韓國本來就是南韓"},{"start":13246.22,"end":13248.22,"text":"那樣我們北韓"},{"start":13248.22,"end":13250.22,"text":"他們是稱為他們"},{"start":13250.22,"end":13252.22,"text":"世上國號叫大韓民國不是南韓喔"},{"start":13252.22,"end":13254.22,"text":"我們很少講大韓民國啦"},{"start":13254.22,"end":13256.22,"text":"這麼落口或者你要"},{"start":13256.22,"end":13258.22,"text":"你要禁一步的"},{"start":13258.69,"end":13259.69,"text":"幹你什麼"},{"start":13259.69,"end":13261.69,"text":"對不對"},{"start":13260.66,"end":13262.66,"text":"說啊改回來韓城"},{"start":13263.25,"end":13265.25,"text":"這委員的建議嗎"},{"start":13265.25,"end":13267.25,"text":"要更刺激"},{"start":13267.25,"end":13269.25,"text":"我們這列入啦"},{"start":13269.25,"end":13271.25,"text":"就是說我們會反應委員的意見"},{"start":13271.25,"end":13273.25,"text":"你都可以去跟他談啦"},{"start":13273.25,"end":13275.25,"text":"我們做球給你啊"},{"start":13275.25,"end":13277.25,"text":"這叫實錘你是虛的"},{"start":13277.25,"end":13279.25,"text":"部長你打高空"},{"start":13279.25,"end":13281.25,"text":"這虛的你非常虛"},{"start":13281.25,"end":13283.25,"text":"外交就是要虛實相宜"},{"start":13283.25,"end":13285.25,"text":"不能夠"},{"start":13285.25,"end":13287.25,"text":"都是實也不能都是虛"},{"start":13287.6,"end":13289.6,"text":"這樣要死的喔就這麼這樣啦"},{"start":13289.6,"end":13291.6,"text":"就開始了你看喔"},{"start":13291.6,"end":13293.6,"text":"台灣去韓國"},{"start":13293.6,"end":13295.6,"text":"一年"},{"start":13295.6,"end":13297.6,"text":"185萬"},{"start":13297.6,"end":13299.6,"text":"你要不要請交通部說我們開始"},{"start":13301.14,"end":13303.14,"text":"不要去"},{"start":13303.14,"end":13305.14,"text":"我們滿利益錢不要去"},{"start":13305.14,"end":13307.14,"text":"你敢不敢"},{"start":13307.14,"end":13309.14,"text":"這是我們政府跟政府的交涉"},{"start":13309.14,"end":13311.14,"text":"我們民間的交往還是非常熱絡"},{"start":13311.14,"end":13313.14,"text":"所以這裡就沒武器了"},{"start":13313.14,"end":13315.14,"text":"不然就是我們的"},{"start":13315.14,"end":13317.14,"text":"貿易逆差一兆多"},{"start":13317.98,"end":13319.98,"text":"我們讓韓國賺一兆多你敢不敢武器"},{"start":13319.98,"end":13321.98,"text":"說你這樣對我"},{"start":13321.98,"end":13323.98,"text":"我就跟你嘿這個地方"},{"start":13323.98,"end":13325.98,"text":"我加強檢驗"},{"start":13325.98,"end":13327.98,"text":"那個地方我給你不要出去"},{"start":13327.98,"end":13329.98,"text":"你敢不敢你敢不敢"},{"start":13329.98,"end":13331.98,"text":"公共也不敢貿易的東西也不敢"},{"start":13331.98,"end":13333.98,"text":"你就虛的一個"},{"start":13333.98,"end":13335.98,"text":"我們要講道理告訴他"},{"start":13335.98,"end":13337.98,"text":"我們的立場"},{"start":13337.98,"end":13339.98,"text":"國與國之間不是講道理啦"},{"start":13339.98,"end":13341.98,"text":"國與國之間講實力啦"},{"start":13341.98,"end":13343.98,"text":"我們也是以實力做後盾嘛"},{"start":13343.98,"end":13345.98,"text":"你有實力在這裡"},{"start":13345.98,"end":13347.98,"text":"我們怎麼樣採取"},{"start":13347.98,"end":13349.98,"text":"讓台灣人少去韓國"},{"start":13351.53,"end":13353.53,"text":"對不對"},{"start":13353.53,"end":13355.53,"text":"我們讓韓國的東西少進來台灣"},{"start":13355.53,"end":13357.53,"text":"這個就是實力啊"},{"start":13357.53,"end":13359.53,"text":"你實力也擺在這裡"},{"start":13359.53,"end":13361.53,"text":"你可以用武器不用"},{"start":13361.53,"end":13363.53,"text":"你敢不敢說我能能"},{"start":13363.64,"end":13365.64,"text":"我們還是期待"},{"start":13365.64,"end":13367.64,"text":"韓國政府"},{"start":13367.64,"end":13369.64,"text":"他能夠就是說務實的處理這件事"},{"start":13369.64,"end":13371.64,"text":"這個我的感覺啊部長"},{"start":13371.64,"end":13373.64,"text":"人家是打你一個很大的巴掌"},{"start":13373.64,"end":13375.64,"text":"然後你輕輕碰一下他的衣服"},{"start":13375.64,"end":13377.64,"text":"這樣了解"},{"start":13377.64,"end":13379.64,"text":"這樣這樣"},{"start":13379.64,"end":13381.64,"text":"我替你很委屈耶"},{"start":13381.64,"end":13383.64,"text":"外交部長我替你委屈"},{"start":13383.64,"end":13385.64,"text":"我知道這堅韌啊"},{"start":13385.64,"end":13387.64,"text":"我們就是從事一切方法"},{"start":13387.64,"end":13389.64,"text":"捍衛我們的國格啊"},{"start":13389.64,"end":13391.64,"text":"然後也是要注重我們雙方面"},{"start":13391.64,"end":13393.64,"text":"所以也是有很多來往的關係啊"},{"start":13393.64,"end":13395.64,"text":"不堅韌就不會找你當部長了啦"},{"start":13395.64,"end":13397.64,"text":"當然堅韌啦"},{"start":13397.64,"end":13399.64,"text":"大家也知道"},{"start":13398.81,"end":13400.81,"text":"中華民國的外交"},{"start":13400.81,"end":13402.81,"text":"到現在為止沒有哪一年"},{"start":13402.81,"end":13404.81,"text":"是不困難的都非常困難"},{"start":13404.81,"end":13406.81,"text":"來我再問你"},{"start":13406.81,"end":13408.81,"text":"盧修彥市長"},{"start":13408.46,"end":13410.46,"text":"好"},{"start":13410.79,"end":13412.79,"text":"你認識的喔"},{"start":13412.79,"end":13414.79,"text":"認識啊"},{"start":13414.79,"end":13416.79,"text":"請問他去美國你有沒有幫助安排活動"},{"start":13416.79,"end":13418.79,"text":"我們都是全力協助啊"},{"start":13418.79,"end":13420.79,"text":"任何不管國會議員或是縣市首長"},{"start":13420.79,"end":13422.79,"text":"這個對我們來講"},{"start":13422.79,"end":13424.79,"text":"都是總和外交耶"},{"start":13424.79,"end":13426.79,"text":"當然是外交"},{"start":13426.79,"end":13428.79,"text":"這外交就不分黨派"},{"start":13428.79,"end":13430.79,"text":"像我跟江啟臣副院長"},{"start":13430.79,"end":13432.79,"text":"一起到了布拉格啊"},{"start":13432.79,"end":13434.79,"text":"我們就在故宮文武宅"},{"start":13434.79,"end":13436.79,"text":"他去不管是"},{"start":13436.79,"end":13438.79,"text":"巴拉圭或現在去"},{"start":13438.79,"end":13440.79,"text":"澳洲我們也都全力協助"},{"start":13440.79,"end":13442.79,"text":"立法院走出去就是代表我們國家"},{"start":13442.79,"end":13444.79,"text":"那佐隆"},{"start":13444.79,"end":13446.79,"text":"台院長去日本看棒球"},{"start":13446.79,"end":13448.79,"text":"你們有沒有幫忙"},{"start":13448.51,"end":13450.51,"text":"我知道"},{"start":13450.51,"end":13452.51,"text":"有沒有幫忙"},{"start":13452.51,"end":13454.51,"text":"我們外交部做我們外交部該做的事"},{"start":13454.51,"end":13456.51,"text":"所以有幫忙嘛"},{"start":13456.51,"end":13458.51,"text":"一定都會涉及到"},{"start":13458.51,"end":13460.51,"text":"當然啦"},{"start":13460.51,"end":13462.51,"text":"大家這個東西就"},{"start":13462.51,"end":13464.51,"text":"大概天窗說亮話"},{"start":13464.51,"end":13466.51,"text":"他去了你一定知道"},{"start":13466.51,"end":13468.51,"text":"不知道的話你可以下台"},{"start":13468.51,"end":13470.51,"text":"第二個你一定有幫忙"},{"start":13470.51,"end":13472.51,"text":"沒有幫忙你也可以下台"},{"start":13472.51,"end":13474.51,"text":"因為他定位在私人行程"},{"start":13474.51,"end":13476.51,"text":"一樣啊"},{"start":13476.51,"end":13478.51,"text":"那是該做的事還要做啊"},{"start":13478.51,"end":13480.51,"text":"但是行政院長"},{"start":13480.51,"end":13482.51,"text":"就算你外交部長"},{"start":13482.51,"end":13484.51,"text":"24小時都是外交部長"},{"start":13484.51,"end":13486.51,"text":"沒有說我今天去應援不是"},{"start":13486.51,"end":13488.51,"text":"我今天應援不是外交部長"},{"start":13488.51,"end":13490.51,"text":"我叫林佳龍教授或者什麼的"},{"start":13490.51,"end":13492.51,"text":"沒有那東西啦"},{"start":13492.51,"end":13494.51,"text":"佐隆台24小時"},{"start":13494.51,"end":13496.51,"text":"一年365天"},{"start":13496.51,"end":13498.51,"text":"就是行政院長"},{"start":13498.51,"end":13500.51,"text":"沒有什麼私人行程啦"},{"start":13500.51,"end":13502.51,"text":"所以你一定要知道"},{"start":13502.51,"end":13504.51,"text":"你一定要幫忙"},{"start":13504.2,"end":13505.2,"text":"否則你就死死"},{"start":13505.85,"end":13507.85,"text":"同意嗎"},{"start":13507.85,"end":13509.85,"text":"就是因為日本叫你不要講"},{"start":13509.85,"end":13511.85,"text":"所以你不要講啦"},{"start":13511.85,"end":13513.85,"text":"所以委員講了"},{"start":13513.85,"end":13515.85,"text":"是啊所以你也沒有否認"},{"start":13515.85,"end":13517.85,"text":"這個我們也辛苦啦"},{"start":13517.85,"end":13519.85,"text":"我就回憶起當初跟"},{"start":13518.98,"end":13520.98,"text":"跟前副"},{"start":13520.98,"end":13522.98,"text":"那時候我當時國內代表"},{"start":13522.98,"end":13524.98,"text":"他是國內代表的議長"},{"start":13525.17,"end":13527.17,"text":"他帶了一兩個"},{"start":13527.17,"end":13529.17,"text":"國內代表去跟日本的"},{"start":13529.9,"end":13531.9,"text":"經濟部長日本的交通部長見面"},{"start":13531.9,"end":13533.9,"text":"他告訴我"},{"start":13533.9,"end":13535.9,"text":"我那時候學到了他說跟日本"},{"start":13535.9,"end":13537.9,"text":"食指能夠碰到這個隔遠"},{"start":13537.9,"end":13539.9,"text":"對外絕對不能嗆"},{"start":13540.43,"end":13542.43,"text":"否則就滅第二次"},{"start":13542.65,"end":13544.65,"text":"所以我們理解不能講"},{"start":13544.65,"end":13546.65,"text":"但是呢"},{"start":13546.65,"end":13548.65,"text":"這不是什麼私人行程"},{"start":13548.65,"end":13550.65,"text":"這就是公務行程"},{"start":13550.65,"end":13552.65,"text":"然後外界不知道外界都有幫忙"},{"start":13552.65,"end":13554.65,"text":"就清楚了"},{"start":13555.44,"end":13557.44,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":13558.6,"end":13562.6,"text":"我們接下來請中嘉賓委員上台諮詢"},{"start":13572.96,"end":13574.96,"text":"主席在場委員先進"},{"start":13574.96,"end":13576.96,"text":"列席的任務就讓市長官員會長"},{"start":13576.96,"end":13578.96,"text":"觀眾夥伴媒體記者女士先生"},{"start":13578.96,"end":13580.96,"text":"有請林部長"},{"start":13585.84,"end":13587.84,"text":"部長我們算是認識很久了"},{"start":13587.84,"end":13589.84,"text":"從大學一起嘛你是我的學長"},{"start":13589.84,"end":13591.84,"text":"如果看到同學有些口角"},{"start":13591.84,"end":13593.84,"text":"你是為了勸架還是三分點"},{"start":13593.84,"end":13595.84,"text":"我將他們打起來"},{"start":13596.25,"end":13598.25,"text":"當然是勸和啊"},{"start":13598.25,"end":13600.25,"text":"所以如果有人說好你將他打下去"},{"start":13600.25,"end":13602.25,"text":"這種人的話你不要聽"},{"start":13602.25,"end":13604.25,"text":"你知道我在講什麼"},{"start":13604.25,"end":13606.25,"text":"來請問部長"},{"start":13604.37,"end":13606.37,"text":"TECO啊是商標嗎"},{"start":13607.57,"end":13609.57,"text":"TECO我們外交部有一些地方叫TECO"},{"start":13609.57,"end":13611.57,"text":"可是我們常看到TECO是動員電機"},{"start":13614.29,"end":13616.29,"text":"所以這個TECO是什麼"},{"start":13616.29,"end":13618.29,"text":"是這個嗎"},{"start":13618.07,"end":13620.07,"text":"台北經濟文化辦事處對不對"},{"start":13621.56,"end":13623.56,"text":"是這樣啦"},{"start":13623.56,"end":13625.56,"text":"好可是國人不見得熟來考你一下一般人"},{"start":13625.71,"end":13627.71,"text":"iPhone聽過嗎"},{"start":13628.73,"end":13630.73,"text":"iPhone就是iPhone啦"},{"start":13630.73,"end":13632.73,"text":"會愛咧"},{"start":13632.88,"end":13634.88,"text":"會愛就是會愛啦"},{"start":13634.88,"end":13636.88,"text":"那請問一下啦"},{"start":13636.88,"end":13638.88,"text":"這個TECO的TR是什麼"},{"start":13638.88,"end":13640.88,"text":"代表Taipei還是Taiwan"},{"start":13641.74,"end":13643.74,"text":"看那個地方啊"},{"start":13643.74,"end":13645.74,"text":"看什麼地方呢"},{"start":13645.74,"end":13647.74,"text":"如果是在我們的住處的牌"},{"start":13647.74,"end":13649.74,"text":"他是寫Taipei啦"},{"start":13649.74,"end":13651.74,"text":"但是如果我們網路上外交部的社群平台"},{"start":13651.74,"end":13653.74,"text":"都是寫Taiwan啊"},{"start":13653.74,"end":13655.74,"text":"所以你這個T到底是Taiwan還是Taipei"},{"start":13655.82,"end":13657.82,"text":"有什麼趨勢嗎"},{"start":13657.82,"end":13659.82,"text":"登記名字剛才講嘛Taipei嘛"},{"start":13659.82,"end":13661.82,"text":"登記的時候早年登記是Taipei"},{"start":13661.82,"end":13663.82,"text":"但是現在我們自己表達都用Taiwan"},{"start":13663.82,"end":13665.82,"text":"不只如此"},{"start":13665.82,"end":13667.82,"text":"不只Taiwan現在我們自己表達Taiwan"},{"start":13667.82,"end":13669.82,"text":"美國也是啊"},{"start":13669.82,"end":13671.82,"text":"美國是要展現Taiwan的主權意向啊"},{"start":13671.82,"end":13673.82,"text":"Taiwan保證落實法案"},{"start":13673.82,"end":13675.82,"text":"是不是讓我們政經局副院長去的時候"},{"start":13675.82,"end":13677.82,"text":"Taiwan的國旗跟美國的國旗並列"},{"start":13677.82,"end":13679.82,"text":"這是政治的官方場合"},{"start":13679.82,"end":13681.82,"text":"對"},{"start":13681.82,"end":13683.82,"text":"是不是過去我們的軍事人員跟他們交流"},{"start":13683.82,"end":13685.82,"text":"都不能做軍服"},{"start":13685.82,"end":13687.82,"text":"現在可以明白的把我們的備彰"},{"start":13687.82,"end":13689.82,"text":"Taiwan的國旗放上去嘛"},{"start":13690.6,"end":13692.6,"text":"是不是這樣"},{"start":13692.6,"end":13694.6,"text":"川普也講Taiwan is Taiwan"},{"start":13694.6,"end":13696.6,"text":"所以誠實地圖條款川普還下令"},{"start":13696.6,"end":13698.6,"text":"只要是聯邦政府出資的"},{"start":13698.6,"end":13700.6,"text":"地圖上不能把Taiwan化為"},{"start":13700.6,"end":13702.6,"text":"中國的一部分有沒有"},{"start":13702.6,"end":13704.6,"text":"所以這是美國主動修法"},{"start":13704.6,"end":13706.6,"text":"來展現我們Taiwan的主權意向"},{"start":13706.6,"end":13708.6,"text":"外交部有沒有掌握"},{"start":13709.75,"end":13711.75,"text":"有沒有去參與推動"},{"start":13712.97,"end":13714.97,"text":"不能講"},{"start":13714.97,"end":13716.97,"text":"有啦但是不方便講"},{"start":13716.97,"end":13718.97,"text":"我們當然是希望"},{"start":13718.97,"end":13720.97,"text":"落實川普總統講的嘛"},{"start":13720.97,"end":13722.97,"text":"Taiwan is Taiwan"},{"start":13722.97,"end":13724.97,"text":"很好"},{"start":13724.97,"end":13726.97,"text":"其實美國國會通過很多友台法案"},{"start":13726.97,"end":13728.97,"text":"2026國防授權法案對不對"},{"start":13728.97,"end":13730.97,"text":"無人載具的產業可以合作"},{"start":13730.97,"end":13732.97,"text":"台美的海巡人員可以合作"},{"start":13732.97,"end":13734.97,"text":"譬如說Taiwan國際團結法案"},{"start":13734.97,"end":13736.97,"text":"禁止中國打彎台灣的國際處境"},{"start":13736.97,"end":13738.97,"text":"甚至呢終結中國對台灣"},{"start":13738.97,"end":13740.97,"text":"威脅法案"},{"start":13740.97,"end":13742.97,"text":"不斷中國的金流"},{"start":13742.97,"end":13744.97,"text":"請問外交部美國國會通過友台法案"},{"start":13744.97,"end":13746.97,"text":"你們都知道嗎"},{"start":13747.72,"end":13749.72,"text":"都知道列了一張長長的表"},{"start":13749.72,"end":13751.72,"text":"很好哪些友台的議員推動"},{"start":13751.72,"end":13753.72,"text":"已經通過了努力中要通過的"},{"start":13754.54,"end":13756.54,"text":"那這個你有去拜託嗎"},{"start":13756.54,"end":13758.54,"text":"跨黨派的啦"},{"start":13758.54,"end":13760.54,"text":"這個動輒連署都是幾十人上拜的"},{"start":13760.54,"end":13762.54,"text":"那這些你有主動去拜託過嗎"},{"start":13763.41,"end":13767.41,"text":"我們美處整天都在國會"},{"start":13767.41,"end":13769.41,"text":"還是說他們議員有來訪過"},{"start":13769.41,"end":13771.41,"text":"就覺得要幫台灣推動這個法案"},{"start":13773.91,"end":13777.91,"text":"我們都會跟他們在推動這些法案的時候"},{"start":13777.91,"end":13779.91,"text":"做很好的溝通配合"},{"start":13781.65,"end":13783.65,"text":"部長是不是這些法案"},{"start":13783.65,"end":13785.65,"text":"都有這幾位重量級的國會議員在後面"},{"start":13785.65,"end":13787.65,"text":"譬如說眾院的台灣連線主席"},{"start":13787.65,"end":13789.65,"text":"對不對"},{"start":13789.65,"end":13791.65,"text":"譬如說軍事委員會的主席參議員"},{"start":13791.65,"end":13793.65,"text":"譬如說外交委員會的亞太小組的主席"},{"start":13793.65,"end":13795.65,"text":"還有呢"},{"start":13795.65,"end":13797.65,"text":"連民主黨的首席參議員"},{"start":13797.65,"end":13799.65,"text":"都是嘛對不對"},{"start":13799.65,"end":13801.65,"text":"這些你都熟嘛"},{"start":13801.65,"end":13803.65,"text":"達克沃斯這個女參議員"},{"start":13803.65,"end":13805.65,"text":"我們印象深刻"},{"start":13805.65,"end":13807.65,"text":"他們都沒有來過台灣"},{"start":13807.65,"end":13809.65,"text":"我有包粽子給他吃"},{"start":13809.65,"end":13811.65,"text":"很好"},{"start":13811.65,"end":13813.65,"text":"所以你看請他來包粽子給他吃"},{"start":13813.65,"end":13815.65,"text":"他感受到台灣的友情"},{"start":13815.65,"end":13817.65,"text":"回去就持續推動"},{"start":13817.65,"end":13819.65,"text":"台美關係強化"},{"start":13819.65,"end":13821.65,"text":"對不對"},{"start":13821.65,"end":13823.65,"text":"所以部長要不要多邀請一些來"},{"start":13824.72,"end":13826.72,"text":"那你們部長我們預算"},{"start":13826.72,"end":13828.72,"text":"要趕快通過"},{"start":13828.72,"end":13830.72,"text":"是是是所以再講給大家聽嘛"},{"start":13830.72,"end":13832.72,"text":"我要規劃不然來不及你知道"},{"start":13832.72,"end":13834.72,"text":"沒有錯但是除了這些邀請"},{"start":13834.72,"end":13836.72,"text":"有台國會議員來訪台可以促進"},{"start":13836.72,"end":13838.72,"text":"台美關係深化跟實質化之外"},{"start":13838.72,"end":13840.72,"text":"我們怎麼樣還可以促進台美關係"},{"start":13840.72,"end":13842.72,"text":"我們台灣的朋友"},{"start":13842.72,"end":13844.72,"text":"除了去日本巨蛋球場幫"},{"start":13844.72,"end":13846.72,"text":"聽Taiwan加油之外"},{"start":13846.72,"end":13848.72,"text":"我們在美國的"},{"start":13848.72,"end":13850.72,"text":"我們的僑胞們他可以怎麼樣來促進"},{"start":13850.72,"end":13852.72,"text":"兩國的關係是不是有聽說"},{"start":13852.72,"end":13854.72,"text":"有"},{"start":13854.72,"end":13856.72,"text":"有"},{"start":13856.72,"end":13858.72,"text":"有"},{"start":13858.72,"end":13860.72,"text":"有"},{"start":13860.72,"end":13862.72,"text":"有"},{"start":13862.72,"end":13864.72,"text":"有"},{"start":13864.72,"end":13866.72,"text":"有"},{"start":13866.72,"end":13868.72,"text":"有"},{"start":13868.72,"end":13870.72,"text":"有"},{"start":13870.72,"end":13872.72,"text":"有"},{"start":13872.72,"end":13874.72,"text":"有"},{"start":13874.72,"end":13876.72,"text":"有"},{"start":13876.72,"end":13878.72,"text":"有"},{"start":13878.72,"end":13880.72,"text":"有"},{"start":13861.95,"end":13863.95,"text":"拇指直我們Fa Za"},{"start":13863.95,"end":13865.95,"text":"要求國會陳情"},{"start":13865.95,"end":13867.95,"text":"讓台灣的住處證明Taiwan"},{"start":13868.73,"end":13869.81,"text":"我們樂觀其成啊"},{"start":13869.81,"end":13871.23,"text":"樂觀其成 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"因為我們有公布三個數字"},{"start":14748.96,"end":14750.96,"text":"已經協助回來的"},{"start":14750.96,"end":14751.96,"text":"然後"},{"start":14751.96,"end":14752.96,"text":"你們有公布"},{"start":14752.96,"end":14755.96,"text":"現在將近三千人了吧"},{"start":14755.96,"end":14756.96,"text":"對"},{"start":14756.96,"end":14757.96,"text":"我們都隨時密切注意"},{"start":14757.96,"end":14761.96,"text":"至少我們在地的這些僑民"},{"start":14761.96,"end":14762.96,"text":"我們都掌握到他們"},{"start":14762.96,"end":14763.96,"text":"目前沒有"},{"start":14763.96,"end":14765.96,"text":"我們都主動聯繫是不是"},{"start":14765.96,"end":14767.96,"text":"但至於說觀光旅遊"},{"start":14767.96,"end":14769.96,"text":"因為有出有進"},{"start":14769.96,"end":14771.96,"text":"進進出出又有一些新的"},{"start":14771.96,"end":14773.96,"text":"我們現在也請交通部"},{"start":14773.96,"end":14775.96,"text":"跟觀光署跟旅行社"},{"start":14775.96,"end":14777.96,"text":"能夠密切聯繫把這個資訊"},{"start":14777.96,"end":14778.96,"text":"跟我們同步"},{"start":14778.96,"end":14779.96,"text":"我會想"},{"start":14781.42,"end":14782.42,"text":"好"},{"start":14782.68,"end":14783.68,"text":"你們過來"},{"start":14784.06,"end":14785.06,"text":"在海外"},{"start":14785.41,"end":14788.41,"text":"這個人生生命的安全"},{"start":14788.41,"end":14790.41,"text":"碰到這樣的一個戰爭"},{"start":14790.41,"end":14793.41,"text":"或是這個緊急的狀況"},{"start":14793.6,"end":14794.6,"text":"外交部"},{"start":14794.6,"end":14795.6,"text":"兩黨就是第一線"},{"start":14796.42,"end":14798.42,"text":"要不然還擔不起這個責任"},{"start":14798.42,"end":14800.42,"text":"那過去啊"},{"start":14800.42,"end":14802.42,"text":"我們"},{"start":14802.48,"end":14803.48,"text":"對包機啊"},{"start":14803.48,"end":14805.48,"text":"我們也曾經有包機過嘛"},{"start":14805.48,"end":14808.48,"text":"包括過去我的資料來講"},{"start":14808.48,"end":14810.48,"text":"過去我們曾經在"},{"start":14812.11,"end":14813.11,"text":"再見啦"},{"start":14814.54,"end":14816.54,"text":"二戰爭啊"},{"start":14817.33,"end":14819.33,"text":"還有在那個"},{"start":14819.33,"end":14821.33,"text":"以色列跟哈馬斯的衝突"},{"start":14821.33,"end":14822.33,"text":"我們曾經都有"},{"start":14822.33,"end":14823.33,"text":"這樣的一個例子"},{"start":14823.33,"end":14824.33,"text":"但是"},{"start":14824.33,"end":14826.33,"text":"這一次在我們的中東"},{"start":14826.33,"end":14827.33,"text":"美伊的戰爭"},{"start":14827.33,"end":14830.33,"text":"我們根本把這個包機"},{"start":14830.33,"end":14833.33,"text":"這個讓國人可以回來"},{"start":14833.33,"end":14834.33,"text":"這個部分"},{"start":14834.33,"end":14835.33,"text":"我們把它列為"},{"start":14835.33,"end":14837.33,"text":"甚至沒有把它列為備案"},{"start":14837.33,"end":14839.33,"text":"都直接啊"},{"start":14839.33,"end":14841.33,"text":"做保持說有聯繫"},{"start":14841.33,"end":14842.33,"text":"協助"},{"start":14842.33,"end":14844.33,"text":"更改集會"},{"start":14844.33,"end":14845.33,"text":"更改航班"},{"start":14845.33,"end":14846.33,"text":"做這樣的"},{"start":14846.33,"end":14848.33,"text":"當然這很多是旅行團的"},{"start":14848.33,"end":14851.33,"text":"我知道你早上已經解釋很多"},{"start":14851.33,"end":14853.33,"text":"但是我要談的"},{"start":14853.33,"end":14855.33,"text":"今天我們不管旅行團"},{"start":14855.33,"end":14856.33,"text":"不管國人"},{"start":14856.33,"end":14859.33,"text":"他可能透過國際友好國家"},{"start":14859.33,"end":14860.33,"text":"包括日本"},{"start":14860.33,"end":14862.33,"text":"就是有協助我們了解"},{"start":14862.33,"end":14864.33,"text":"但是我們有部分"},{"start":14864.33,"end":14866.33,"text":"是由大陸這邊幫忙"},{"start":14866.33,"end":14867.33,"text":"好"},{"start":14867.33,"end":14869.33,"text":"為了國人的生命安全"},{"start":14869.33,"end":14870.33,"text":"其實能夠平安的"},{"start":14870.33,"end":14872.33,"text":"回到台灣是最好的"},{"start":14872.33,"end":14874.33,"text":"但是我這邊就要"},{"start":14874.33,"end":14877.33,"text":"有一天還是要跟我們執政黨"},{"start":14877.33,"end":14879.33,"text":"做一個說明"},{"start":14880.35,"end":14881.35,"text":"明明回來了"},{"start":14881.35,"end":14884.35,"text":"我們還是要用政治作戰來處理"},{"start":14885.3,"end":14887.3,"text":"還是要用認知作戰來處理"},{"start":14887.3,"end":14889.3,"text":"包括部長你早上也提"},{"start":14889.3,"end":14891.3,"text":"包括我們講南韓韓國"},{"start":14891.3,"end":14893.3,"text":"我們有一些網路的聲音"},{"start":14893.3,"end":14895.3,"text":"部長還是會把他找引說"},{"start":14895.3,"end":14898.3,"text":"這是網民的認知作戰等等"},{"start":14898.3,"end":14899.3,"text":"我在這裡講"},{"start":14899.3,"end":14900.3,"text":"部分啦"},{"start":14900.3,"end":14901.3,"text":"一開始不是"},{"start":14901.3,"end":14902.3,"text":"一開始比較正"},{"start":14902.3,"end":14904.3,"text":"我覺得我們做一個執政黨"},{"start":14904.3,"end":14906.3,"text":"我們還是要很正面的"},{"start":14906.3,"end":14909.3,"text":"很正面的去處理"},{"start":14909.3,"end":14911.3,"text":"我們國人同胞的安全"},{"start":14911.3,"end":14914.3,"text":"所以我在這邊強烈建議"},{"start":14914.3,"end":14915.3,"text":"我們以後"},{"start":14915.3,"end":14917.3,"text":"過去由日本合作"},{"start":14917.3,"end":14918.3,"text":"有一個經驗"},{"start":14918.3,"end":14920.3,"text":"我們也曾經透過美國的幫忙"},{"start":14920.3,"end":14922.3,"text":"我們外交部應該要一個"},{"start":14922.3,"end":14923.3,"text":"跨國的協作"},{"start":14923.3,"end":14926.3,"text":"來精進保護我們的國人同胞"},{"start":14926.3,"end":14927.3,"text":"在國際上"},{"start":14927.3,"end":14929.3,"text":"國外有生命危險"},{"start":14929.3,"end":14932.3,"text":"立刻要呼喬撤僑"},{"start":14932.3,"end":14935.3,"text":"能夠來做一個SOP"},{"start":14935.3,"end":14938.3,"text":"一個標準的一個這個流程"},{"start":14940.28,"end":14942.28,"text":"我跟委員報告幾點"},{"start":14942.28,"end":14945.28,"text":"第一點行政院是有召開過會議"},{"start":14945.28,"end":14948.28,"text":"有關於要不要包機或專機"},{"start":14948.28,"end":14950.28,"text":"去所謂撤僑或護僑"},{"start":14950.28,"end":14954.28,"text":"但是後來行政院的決定並沒有"},{"start":14954.28,"end":14956.28,"text":"這是行政院的決定"},{"start":14956.28,"end":14959.28,"text":"但是這一部外交部作為"},{"start":14959.28,"end":14961.28,"text":"我們都是準備的"},{"start":14961.28,"end":14964.28,"text":"我們外交部應該要去吧"},{"start":14964.28,"end":14966.28,"text":"當然我要跟委員報告的是"},{"start":14966.28,"end":14968.28,"text":"其實我們的管處跟美日"},{"start":14968.28,"end":14970.28,"text":"這些國家都要協調"},{"start":14970.28,"end":14973.28,"text":"讓我們台灣人一整個"},{"start":14973.28,"end":14974.28,"text":"會生命安全"},{"start":14974.28,"end":14975.28,"text":"讓人家安全"},{"start":14975.28,"end":14979.28,"text":"真的我們台灣就是我們最重要的工作"},{"start":14979.28,"end":14981.28,"text":"我跟委員舉這個例子"},{"start":14981.28,"end":14982.28,"text":"比如說以色列"},{"start":14982.28,"end":14985.28,"text":"我們是隨時跟其他國家派駐的大團"},{"start":14985.28,"end":14988.28,"text":"我們講過的跨國協作"},{"start":14988.28,"end":14990.28,"text":"我們會把它當作重點"},{"start":14990.28,"end":14992.28,"text":"因為我們自己做不到"},{"start":14992.28,"end":14994.28,"text":"有些友盟可能可以"},{"start":14994.28,"end":14996.28,"text":"這樣下去做"},{"start":14996.28,"end":14997.28,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":14997.28,"end":14998.28,"text":"謝謝部長"},{"start":15001.21,"end":15002.21,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":15002.21,"end":15005.21,"text":"接下來請鄭政前委員不在"},{"start":15005.21,"end":15009.21,"text":"請蔡依渝委員不在"},{"start":15009.21,"end":15011.21,"text":"請陳冠廷委員上台質詢"},{"start":15023.44,"end":15025.44,"text":"主席 請部長"},{"start":15025.44,"end":15026.44,"text":"請林部長"},{"start":15032.52,"end":15033.52,"text":"委員好"},{"start":15033.52,"end":15034.52,"text":"部長好 部長我們先從"},{"start":15034.52,"end":15036.52,"text":"每周這邊開始講起"},{"start":15038.17,"end":15039.17,"text":"直接問"},{"start":15039.17,"end":15041.17,"text":"我們在中南美"},{"start":15041.17,"end":15043.17,"text":"有過去許多搬交過"},{"start":15043.52,"end":15044.52,"text":"最近有沒有可能"},{"start":15044.52,"end":15045.52,"text":"有沒有機會"},{"start":15045.52,"end":15046.52,"text":"來去復交"},{"start":15046.52,"end":15048.52,"text":"或者是來拓展"},{"start":15048.52,"end":15050.52,"text":"加一個搬交過"},{"start":15051.62,"end":15054.62,"text":"包括委員 這個是我們努力的方向"},{"start":15054.62,"end":15056.62,"text":"當然現在天時地利人和"},{"start":15056.62,"end":15057.62,"text":"也比較拒阻"},{"start":15057.62,"end":15059.62,"text":"可是因為這個"},{"start":15059.62,"end":15061.62,"text":"建交或設處也涉及到雙方面"},{"start":15061.62,"end":15064.62,"text":"我想各自政府可能也要有內部"},{"start":15064.62,"end":15065.62,"text":"還有很多配套"},{"start":15065.62,"end":15070.62,"text":"當然因為現在的美國政府重視西半球"},{"start":15070.62,"end":15072.62,"text":"你也知道這個川普總統"},{"start":15072.62,"end":15076.62,"text":"剛在這個Miami開過"},{"start":15076.62,"end":15077.62,"text":"這個所謂美洲之盾"},{"start":15077.62,"end":15080.62,"text":"也把一些理念相近國家召集"},{"start":15080.62,"end":15082.62,"text":"馬克魯比歐國務卿"},{"start":15082.62,"end":15084.62,"text":"更是積極在推動"},{"start":15084.62,"end":15087.62,"text":"他們也都對台灣在當地國家"},{"start":15087.62,"end":15089.62,"text":"如果有設大使館"},{"start":15089.62,"end":15090.62,"text":"或是代表處"},{"start":15090.62,"end":15092.62,"text":"都有發揮很好的功能"},{"start":15092.62,"end":15093.62,"text":"這也是符合美國現在的政策"},{"start":15093.62,"end":15095.62,"text":"所以剛剛講所謂加一"},{"start":15095.62,"end":15097.62,"text":"我們也是同步在進行"},{"start":15097.62,"end":15101.62,"text":"當然我們是希望基於兩國"},{"start":15101.62,"end":15103.62,"text":"是長久的這種關係"},{"start":15103.62,"end":15105.62,"text":"而不是一時"},{"start":15105.62,"end":15109.62,"text":"然後為了增加數字上的變化"},{"start":15109.62,"end":15113.62,"text":"所以確實是都有在推動當中"},{"start":15113.62,"end":15116.62,"text":"好 那就是有樂觀的可能性"},{"start":15116.62,"end":15119.62,"text":"就是我們可以樂觀的預期說"},{"start":15119.62,"end":15122.62,"text":"有機會在林部長的任期內"},{"start":15122.62,"end":15124.62,"text":"增加邦交國"},{"start":15125.17,"end":15127.17,"text":"我們會努力"},{"start":15127.45,"end":15129.45,"text":"接下來我談一下玉山論壇"},{"start":15129.45,"end":15131.45,"text":"這幾天有邀請到許多"},{"start":15131.45,"end":15134.45,"text":"重要的國際政治人物來訪"},{"start":15134.45,"end":15138.45,"text":"那包含波蘭前總統華勒莎"},{"start":15139.13,"end":15141.13,"text":"他是在前天的玉山論壇表示"},{"start":15141.13,"end":15144.13,"text":"他說在當前的新運局勢下"},{"start":15144.13,"end":15147.13,"text":"中華民族必須統一團結等等等等"},{"start":15147.13,"end":15150.13,"text":"然後由台灣引領中華民族的統一等等"},{"start":15150.13,"end":15152.13,"text":"我想請教一下部長對這個的看法是怎麼樣"},{"start":15152.13,"end":15155.13,"text":"為何我們邀請的這些訪賓"},{"start":15155.13,"end":15159.13,"text":"他跟地區盛行的主流民意是脫節的"},{"start":15160.34,"end":15162.34,"text":"而且我們不只是讓他脫節"},{"start":15162.34,"end":15163.34,"text":"讓他講出來之後"},{"start":15163.34,"end":15166.34,"text":"我們甚至還要宣傳強化這樣子的說法嗎"},{"start":15166.34,"end":15167.34,"text":"我想請部長來簡單回應一下"},{"start":15168.03,"end":15170.03,"text":"報告委員如果你詳細去瞭解"},{"start":15170.03,"end":15173.03,"text":"華勒莎總統他的所有的談話"},{"start":15173.03,"end":15174.03,"text":"其實他有幾點重點"},{"start":15174.03,"end":15175.03,"text":"第一個他反共"},{"start":15175.03,"end":15178.03,"text":"他認為共產黨跟共產主義"},{"start":15178.03,"end":15181.03,"text":"應該要消失"},{"start":15181.03,"end":15182.03,"text":"也不可能成功"},{"start":15182.03,"end":15185.03,"text":"第二點就是反對武力解決衝突"},{"start":15185.03,"end":15186.03,"text":"包括戰爭"},{"start":15186.03,"end":15188.03,"text":"所以要用和平的手段"},{"start":15188.03,"end":15192.03,"text":"第三點他是認為台灣要積極"},{"start":15192.03,"end":15194.03,"text":"因為我們的成功的模式"},{"start":15194.03,"end":15197.03,"text":"不是說所謂的統一這些東西"},{"start":15197.03,"end":15199.03,"text":"翻譯是有問題的"},{"start":15199.03,"end":15200.03,"text":"意思是說"},{"start":15200.03,"end":15203.03,"text":"他講的是一個華人社會的概念"},{"start":15203.03,"end":15205.03,"text":"因為他也看到我們就是說"},{"start":15205.03,"end":15208.03,"text":"在一些不管是各種的族群"},{"start":15208.03,"end":15210.03,"text":"膚色語言上面"},{"start":15210.03,"end":15212.03,"text":"所以我們怎麼樣積極的"},{"start":15212.03,"end":15214.03,"text":"有創意的去看"},{"start":15215,"end":15217,"text":"改變跟中國的關係"},{"start":15217,"end":15219,"text":"而且他相信我們會勝利"},{"start":15219,"end":15220,"text":"而他甚至講"},{"start":15220,"end":15222,"text":"他一生都要為這個來奮鬥"},{"start":15222,"end":15223,"text":"站在台灣的這一邊"},{"start":15223.91,"end":15225.91,"text":"就是我就聽了也是"},{"start":15225.91,"end":15228.91,"text":"他自己整套團結工聯的經驗"},{"start":15228.91,"end":15230.91,"text":"他說當時蘇聯多強"},{"start":15230.91,"end":15232.91,"text":"他都可以不用戰爭"},{"start":15232.91,"end":15235.91,"text":"最後能夠得到破爛的獨立跟民主化"},{"start":15237.39,"end":15241.39,"text":"現在的實力也在這個不在這個之下"},{"start":15241.39,"end":15243.39,"text":"甚至更有機會"},{"start":15243.39,"end":15245.39,"text":"我覺得這是一個比較正面的"},{"start":15245.39,"end":15248.39,"text":"不是說要去統一或是什麼"},{"start":15248.39,"end":15251.39,"text":"這樣的一個方式去論述的"},{"start":15251.39,"end":15252.39,"text":"如果詳細一點完整來看"},{"start":15252.39,"end":15254.39,"text":"部長你剛剛講的我同意"},{"start":15254.39,"end":15255.39,"text":"第一個他是反共的"},{"start":15255.39,"end":15257.39,"text":"然後第二個你剛剛提到"},{"start":15257.39,"end":15259.39,"text":"這個說引領"},{"start":15259.39,"end":15260.39,"text":"用我們的軟實力"},{"start":15260.39,"end":15261.39,"text":"用我們的民主的經驗"},{"start":15261.39,"end":15263.39,"text":"然後結合破爛過去的經驗"},{"start":15263.39,"end":15264.39,"text":"這些我都理解"},{"start":15264.39,"end":15266.39,"text":"但是我必須要強調"},{"start":15266.39,"end":15268.39,"text":"當他說出這樣子的"},{"start":15268.39,"end":15270.39,"text":"特別是跟民族相關"},{"start":15270.39,"end":15272.39,"text":"所謂的中華民族相關的話"},{"start":15272.39,"end":15274.39,"text":"某種程度就會被用於"},{"start":15274.39,"end":15276.39,"text":"中共的這種敘事模式裡面"},{"start":15276.39,"end":15278.39,"text":"他沒有要專注在你剛才講的"},{"start":15278.39,"end":15280.39,"text":"他要專注在他講的中華民族的部分"},{"start":15280.39,"end":15282.39,"text":"什麼統一的部分"},{"start":15282.39,"end":15283.39,"text":"但我必須要強調"},{"start":15283.39,"end":15285.39,"text":"你台灣你自我認同"},{"start":15285.39,"end":15287.39,"text":"怎麼樣我們不會去一一的"},{"start":15287.39,"end":15289.39,"text":"來去干預每一個人的自我認同"},{"start":15289.39,"end":15290.39,"text":"但是兩千三百萬人民裡面"},{"start":15290.39,"end":15293.39,"text":"有許多他專注在鞏固台灣"},{"start":15293.39,"end":15295.39,"text":"也就是說台灣是我們的共同的"},{"start":15295.39,"end":15297.39,"text":"一個identity"},{"start":15297.39,"end":15299.39,"text":"所以我們不見得是要"},{"start":15299.39,"end":15301.39,"text":"照他的這個什麼中華民族的"},{"start":15301.39,"end":15303.39,"text":"這種identity下面去做自己身份認同"},{"start":15303.39,"end":15305.39,"text":"那這樣子的說法"},{"start":15305.39,"end":15307.39,"text":"某種程度會誤導國際大眾"},{"start":15307.39,"end":15309.39,"text":"那我認同剛才部長講的每一句話"},{"start":15309.39,"end":15311.39,"text":"包含這個反共"},{"start":15311.39,"end":15313.39,"text":"他希望說是共產主義這一種等等"},{"start":15313.39,"end":15315.39,"text":"來去消滅等等"},{"start":15315.39,"end":15316.39,"text":"這些都可以"},{"start":15316.39,"end":15318.39,"text":"但是重點要強調"},{"start":15318.39,"end":15320.39,"text":"我們對自己的認同就是台灣"},{"start":15320.39,"end":15322.39,"text":"那你再講到中華民族的話"},{"start":15322.39,"end":15324.39,"text":"等於是說把我們過去"},{"start":15324.39,"end":15327.39,"text":"這一二十年想要建構自己主體的部分"},{"start":15327.39,"end":15329.39,"text":"某種程度是有點削弱"},{"start":15329.39,"end":15332.39,"text":"那當然他的這個利益是良善的"},{"start":15332.39,"end":15335.39,"text":"但是他有他自己理解台灣的一個狀況"},{"start":15335.39,"end":15337.39,"text":"不過我報告委員喔"},{"start":15337.39,"end":15339.39,"text":"他講那個中華民族是戶數喔"},{"start":15341.25,"end":15343.25,"text":"OK OK"},{"start":15343.25,"end":15345.25,"text":"他當然對不像我們生活在這裡"},{"start":15345.25,"end":15347.25,"text":"那個區別很多"},{"start":15347.25,"end":15349.25,"text":"而且我們自己的認同"},{"start":15349.25,"end":15351.25,"text":"不過我想他有提到一個觀念"},{"start":15351.25,"end":15353.25,"text":"我覺得是自由"},{"start":15353.25,"end":15355.25,"text":"他認為自由是一切的基礎"},{"start":15355.25,"end":15357.25,"text":"共產主義是不可能允許自由"},{"start":15357.25,"end":15359.25,"text":"就是說台灣在這方面讓他感受到"},{"start":15359.25,"end":15361.25,"text":"那這也是歐洲後來這個"},{"start":15361.25,"end":15363.25,"text":"蘇聯倒了之後整個歐盟形成"},{"start":15363.25,"end":15365.25,"text":"也是一個跨國家的"},{"start":15365.25,"end":15367.25,"text":"另外一種制度安排"},{"start":15367.25,"end":15369.25,"text":"因為我跟他談的比較深"},{"start":15369.25,"end":15371.25,"text":"他甚至講過"},{"start":15371.25,"end":15373.25,"text":"他一生沒有到過去中國"},{"start":15373.25,"end":15375.25,"text":"中國各方邀請他"},{"start":15376.27,"end":15378.27,"text":"他的條件就是啊"},{"start":15378.27,"end":15380.27,"text":"他要在天安門事件啊"},{"start":15380.29,"end":15382.29,"text":"這是現場啊"},{"start":15382.38,"end":15384.38,"text":"去講出對這個"},{"start":15384.38,"end":15386.38,"text":"被屠殺的"},{"start":15386.38,"end":15388.38,"text":"這些人啊"},{"start":15388.38,"end":15390.38,"text":"就是要在那邊要說話"},{"start":15391.22,"end":15393.22,"text":"他們連走下去都不敢去"},{"start":15393.22,"end":15395.22,"text":"所以他是一個滿有趣的"},{"start":15395.22,"end":15397.22,"text":"就是說"},{"start":15397.22,"end":15399.22,"text":"滿有他自己的style"},{"start":15399.22,"end":15401.22,"text":"所以我是覺得不用"},{"start":15401.22,"end":15403.22,"text":"有時候陷入到一個"},{"start":15403.22,"end":15405.22,"text":"因為媒體抓標題有他的需要"},{"start":15405.22,"end":15407.22,"text":"不過我覺得"},{"start":15407.22,"end":15409.22,"text":"我想他這次來其實整體來講"},{"start":15409.22,"end":15411.22,"text":"是有"},{"start":15411.22,"end":15413.22,"text":"有讓玉山論壇"},{"start":15413.22,"end":15415.22,"text":"我想他的這個角色"},{"start":15415.22,"end":15417.22,"text":"跟重要性發揮出來"},{"start":15417.22,"end":15419.22,"text":"好謝謝部長"},{"start":15419.22,"end":15421.22,"text":"我們台灣"},{"start":15421.22,"end":15423.22,"text":"自己的主權"},{"start":15423.22,"end":15425.22,"text":"我們沒有要追求跟中國"},{"start":15425.22,"end":15427.22,"text":"任何他講到的什麼中華民族的"},{"start":15427.22,"end":15429.22,"text":"追求這種統一的"},{"start":15429.22,"end":15431.22,"text":"我們完全不會"},{"start":15431.22,"end":15433.22,"text":"我不做此想"},{"start":15433.22,"end":15435.22,"text":"那我也不希望說這樣子的說法"},{"start":15435.22,"end":15437.22,"text":"被過度詮釋"},{"start":15437.22,"end":15439.22,"text":"那我們重心還是一樣"},{"start":15439.22,"end":15441.22,"text":"我們未來在這個"},{"start":15441.22,"end":15443.22,"text":"不管是玉山論壇或者是海南各國論壇"},{"start":15443.22,"end":15445.22,"text":"等等的時候"},{"start":15445.22,"end":15447.22,"text":"我們可能要注意一下"},{"start":15447.22,"end":15449.22,"text":"或者是拿來做他們的大外宣用"},{"start":15449.22,"end":15451.22,"text":"我們自己要注意"},{"start":15451.22,"end":15453.22,"text":"不然變成說我們好不容易辦好的"},{"start":15453.22,"end":15455.22,"text":"找這麼多這種國際"},{"start":15455.22,"end":15457.22,"text":"有影響力的政治人物來的時候"},{"start":15457.22,"end":15459.22,"text":"反而走向對我們比較不利的地方"},{"start":15459.22,"end":15461.22,"text":"我覺得這個會比較可惜"},{"start":15461.22,"end":15463.22,"text":"好那第二個部分想請教部長"},{"start":15463.22,"end":15465.22,"text":"這次的中東的"},{"start":15465.22,"end":15467.22,"text":"這個衝突"},{"start":15467.22,"end":15469.22,"text":"在中東衝突發生之前"},{"start":15469.22,"end":15471.22,"text":"包含美國跟以色列有沒有透過外交"},{"start":15471.22,"end":15473.22,"text":"渠道先讓我們有預先的"},{"start":15473.22,"end":15475.22,"text":"防範"},{"start":15474.97,"end":15476.97,"text":"我們是都密切注意"},{"start":15476.97,"end":15478.97,"text":"到底川普總統什麼時候"},{"start":15478.97,"end":15480.97,"text":"會打"},{"start":15480.97,"end":15482.97,"text":"會不會打"},{"start":15482.97,"end":15484.97,"text":"打了之後的情形"},{"start":15484.97,"end":15486.97,"text":"當然他打是沒有告訴我們"},{"start":15486.97,"end":15488.97,"text":"說什麼時候打"},{"start":15488.97,"end":15490.97,"text":"不過我們的綜合研判"},{"start":15490.97,"end":15492.97,"text":"這個是會打的"},{"start":15492.97,"end":15494.97,"text":"所以大概對我們來講"},{"start":15494.97,"end":15496.97,"text":"也在危機的應變裡面"},{"start":15496.97,"end":15498.97,"text":"已經有做一些"},{"start":15498.97,"end":15500.97,"text":"就是一些"},{"start":15500.97,"end":15502.97,"text":"想定"},{"start":15504.35,"end":15506.35,"text":"OK所以"},{"start":15506.35,"end":15508.35,"text":"我之所以講這個事情"},{"start":15508.35,"end":15510.35,"text":"是因為說我們希望說現在如果沒有這樣子的渠道的話"},{"start":15510.35,"end":15512.35,"text":"那可能"},{"start":15512.35,"end":15514.35,"text":"不見得是在公開講"},{"start":15514.35,"end":15516.35,"text":"但是說如果未來能夠爭取"},{"start":15516.35,"end":15518.35,"text":"我們的盟友在做任何"},{"start":15518.35,"end":15520.35,"text":"大型的可能會影響到"},{"start":15520.35,"end":15522.35,"text":"周遭國家或者是"},{"start":15522.35,"end":15524.35,"text":"全球的因為貿易影響等等的話"},{"start":15524.35,"end":15526.35,"text":"能夠有事先的"},{"start":15526.35,"end":15528.35,"text":"就是你也可以說under the table"},{"start":15528.35,"end":15530.35,"text":"的這種渠道"},{"start":15530.35,"end":15532.35,"text":"讓我們能夠有所預備"},{"start":15532.35,"end":15534.35,"text":"假設特別要撤僑或者是"},{"start":15534.35,"end":15536.35,"text":"做一些相應的防範的時候"},{"start":15536.35,"end":15538.35,"text":"我們會更有準備我覺得"},{"start":15538.35,"end":15540.35,"text":"不管他們願不願意給我們都要有這個"},{"start":15540.35,"end":15542.35,"text":"要求在"},{"start":15542.35,"end":15544.35,"text":"如果真的是把我們沾成重要的盟友的話我相信這是對彼此"},{"start":15544.35,"end":15546.35,"text":"之間都會互惠的"},{"start":15546.35,"end":15548.35,"text":"如果事先得知這些訊息的話"},{"start":15548.35,"end":15550.35,"text":"甚至我們可以事先來協助美方"},{"start":15550.35,"end":15552.35,"text":"在我們能力的範圍之下"},{"start":15552.35,"end":15554.35,"text":"那我想這都對我國未來"},{"start":15554.35,"end":15556.35,"text":"不管是在貿易談判"},{"start":15556.35,"end":15558.35,"text":"軍事採購等等"},{"start":15558.35,"end":15560.35,"text":"都會有所幫助讓他們知道我們是真正的沒有"},{"start":15560.35,"end":15562.35,"text":"特別是對美國這個我覺得我們可以做"},{"start":15562.35,"end":15564.35,"text":"那最後總和外交"},{"start":15564.35,"end":15566.35,"text":"部長是非常重視的"},{"start":15566.35,"end":15568.35,"text":"那外交部去年十月有成立"},{"start":15568.35,"end":15570.35,"text":"無人機外交的小組"},{"start":15570.35,"end":15572.35,"text":"那這一個部分"},{"start":15572.35,"end":15574.35,"text":"要透過也是龍幫計畫"},{"start":15574.35,"end":15576.35,"text":"來推動無人機學院推動友邦"},{"start":15576.35,"end":15578.35,"text":"捐贈非手栽培認證接軌"},{"start":15578.35,"end":15580.35,"text":"等等的那我這個是非常認可的"},{"start":15580.35,"end":15582.35,"text":"因為我們嘉義民雄航太原區"},{"start":15582.35,"end":15584.35,"text":"未來也是無人機培訓"},{"start":15584.35,"end":15586.35,"text":"未來也是需要"},{"start":15586.35,"end":15588.35,"text":"媒合的一個重點所以既然"},{"start":15588.35,"end":15590.35,"text":"有這樣子的宏願就是把這個"},{"start":15590.35,"end":15592.35,"text":"外交部那人人都是外交官"},{"start":15592.35,"end":15594.35,"text":"部部都是外交部"},{"start":15594.35,"end":15596.35,"text":"等於是說把經濟安全"},{"start":15596.35,"end":15598.35,"text":"上面領域你都要做到這個"},{"start":15598.35,"end":15600.35,"text":"能夠來協助的部分"},{"start":15600.35,"end":15602.35,"text":"那我就希望說接下來"},{"start":15602.35,"end":15604.35,"text":"外交部可以更主動的跟中科院來談"},{"start":15604.35,"end":15606.35,"text":"合作或者是協助的方向"},{"start":15606.35,"end":15608.35,"text":"那特別是比方說中科院他最近"},{"start":15608.35,"end":15610.35,"text":"有三次來去跟對外公開"},{"start":15610.35,"end":15612.35,"text":"說明未來無人機航太原區"},{"start":15612.35,"end":15614.35,"text":"包含一些招標"},{"start":15614.35,"end":15616.35,"text":"的期程未來廠房的這個配置"},{"start":15616.35,"end":15618.35,"text":"實驗室的配置等等可是"},{"start":15618.35,"end":15620.35,"text":"是中文嘛所以上次我在行政院長"},{"start":15620.35,"end":15622.35,"text":"質詢的時候我特別希望說"},{"start":15622.35,"end":15624.35,"text":"外交部來協助首先把他各國的"},{"start":15624.35,"end":15626.35,"text":"把他語言翻譯"},{"start":15626.35,"end":15628.35,"text":"提供給歐洲"},{"start":15628.35,"end":15630.35,"text":"美國日本這些相關可能"},{"start":15630.35,"end":15632.35,"text":"會進駐的新創團體我覺得"},{"start":15632.35,"end":15634.35,"text":"這是很有幫助的有時候我們讓"},{"start":15634.35,"end":15636.35,"text":"更多人知道說民雄航太原區"},{"start":15636.35,"end":15638.35,"text":"現在是歡迎各個國家"},{"start":15638.35,"end":15640.35,"text":"的創新新創的團隊進駐"},{"start":15640.35,"end":15642.35,"text":"無人機產業的團隊進駐"},{"start":15642.35,"end":15644.35,"text":"那其實包含"},{"start":15644.35,"end":15646.35,"text":"Ai啦Android等等這些全部"},{"start":15646.35,"end":15648.35,"text":"都是現在美國"},{"start":15648.35,"end":15650.35,"text":"等於是創新破壞性"},{"start":15650.35,"end":15652.35,"text":"科技的新科技的這些無人載具"},{"start":15652.35,"end":15654.35,"text":"的公司那我們不把他"},{"start":15654.35,"end":15656.35,"text":"當成是就我們只找成熟的"},{"start":15656.35,"end":15658.35,"text":"其實有一些新創創新的"},{"start":15658.35,"end":15660.35,"text":"這些公司他甚至還沒有"},{"start":15660.35,"end":15662.35,"text":"成型但是如果我們可以提供"},{"start":15662.35,"end":15664.35,"text":"像是民雄航太原區相關這樣的資訊的話"},{"start":15664.35,"end":15666.35,"text":"等於是一個很好的呼籲區"},{"start":15666.35,"end":15668.35,"text":"這個部分部長可不可以簡單來回應我們一下"},{"start":15668.35,"end":15670.35,"text":"報告委員確實如你所說"},{"start":15670.35,"end":15672.35,"text":"其實"},{"start":15672.35,"end":15674.35,"text":"台灣發展無人機"},{"start":15674.35,"end":15676.35,"text":"是我們國家的政策"},{"start":15676.35,"end":15678.35,"text":"那在外交上面我們"},{"start":15678.84,"end":15680.84,"text":"去推動成立這無人機外交"},{"start":15680.84,"end":15682.84,"text":"還有包括一些國際的"},{"start":15682.84,"end":15684.84,"text":"這種學院"},{"start":15685.1,"end":15687.1,"text":"也是巨龍幫企劃"},{"start":15687.43,"end":15689.43,"text":"的需要"},{"start":15699.77,"end":15701.77,"text":"這個確實是現在外賓來"},{"start":15701.77,"end":15703.77,"text":"參訪很想去"},{"start":15703.77,"end":15705.77,"text":"嘉義的一個地方所以在這個"},{"start":15705.77,"end":15707.77,"text":"部分呢"},{"start":15707.77,"end":15709.77,"text":"我們已經有具體的"},{"start":15709.77,"end":15711.77,"text":"規劃那也透過龍幫"},{"start":15711.77,"end":15713.77,"text":"企劃比如說我們現在很多"},{"start":15713.77,"end":15715.77,"text":"的人才訓練"},{"start":15715.77,"end":15717.77,"text":"我們就可以在台灣"},{"start":15717.77,"end":15719.77,"text":"以及在他們的國家設立一些分處"},{"start":15719.77,"end":15721.77,"text":"甚至我們也可以跟美國"},{"start":15721.77,"end":15723.77,"text":"合作這個都在進行"},{"start":15723.77,"end":15725.77,"text":"一個所謂外交因為很多國家"},{"start":15725.82,"end":15727.82,"text":"都透過我們的管束跟我們講說"},{"start":15727.82,"end":15729.82,"text":"想跟台灣交流所以這個是"},{"start":15729.82,"end":15731.82,"text":"包括美國當然那個考察團"},{"start":15731.82,"end":15733.82,"text":"事實上在兩年前我也帶團到"},{"start":15733.82,"end":15735.82,"text":"歐洲就是那個無人機商機"},{"start":15735.82,"end":15737.82,"text":"拓展的這個聯盟"},{"start":15737.82,"end":15739.82,"text":"也確實後來得到"},{"start":15739.82,"end":15741.82,"text":"很好的效果包括在波蘭"},{"start":15741.82,"end":15743.82,"text":"這個立陶宛跟這個"},{"start":15743.82,"end":15745.82,"text":"拉脫維亞等地"},{"start":15745.82,"end":15747.82,"text":"部長補充一點就是說"},{"start":15747.82,"end":15749.82,"text":"因為他們的這一個要邀請"},{"start":15749.82,"end":15751.82,"text":"各個國家的團隊進駐"},{"start":15751.82,"end":15753.82,"text":"的時候有包含他們要"},{"start":15753.82,"end":15755.82,"text":"跟他們解釋各種稅務上面的"},{"start":15755.82,"end":15757.82,"text":"優惠土地政策的"},{"start":15757.82,"end":15759.82,"text":"土地稅收等等的就是優惠"},{"start":15759.82,"end":15761.82,"text":"跟這些國外的這些廠商"},{"start":15761.82,"end":15763.82,"text":"希望他們來進駐嘛那我們現在"},{"start":15763.82,"end":15765.82,"text":"除了國內我們當然也很歡迎國內"},{"start":15765.82,"end":15767.82,"text":"但是特別是跟美國的關係如果能夠"},{"start":15767.82,"end":15769.82,"text":"合資合建合造的話"},{"start":15769.82,"end":15771.82,"text":"效果會更好所以"},{"start":15771.82,"end":15773.82,"text":"我希望說不要把它當成是中科院"},{"start":15773.82,"end":15775.82,"text":"的事情我們交部能夠主動"},{"start":15775.82,"end":15777.82,"text":"把它當成是一個專案"},{"start":15777.82,"end":15779.82,"text":"跟中科院來談一下看怎麼樣"},{"start":15779.82,"end":15781.82,"text":"把這個東西再把它擴大我們現在"},{"start":15781.82,"end":15783.82,"text":"不是只有民雄航太園區包含在"},{"start":15783.82,"end":15785.82,"text":"太保的這個亞創"},{"start":15785.82,"end":15787.82,"text":"等等還會有在這個海邊"},{"start":15787.82,"end":15789.82,"text":"的這個包含無人載具就是"},{"start":15789.82,"end":15791.82,"text":"水面上水面下的無人載具等等"},{"start":15791.82,"end":15793.82,"text":"所以它是一個很宏觀的東西我是希望說"},{"start":15793.82,"end":15795.82,"text":"部長可以主動來掌握"},{"start":15795.82,"end":15797.82,"text":"自己當成是一個發起的"},{"start":15797.82,"end":15799.82,"text":"一個對象不要讓它都讓中科院"},{"start":15799.82,"end":15801.82,"text":"因為中科院還是負責研究為止"},{"start":15801.82,"end":15803.82,"text":"因為工研院現在也積極的"},{"start":15803.82,"end":15805.82,"text":"在推動無人機也是"},{"start":15805.82,"end":15807.82,"text":"未來我想在產業創新"},{"start":15807.82,"end":15809.82,"text":"合作上跟國際"},{"start":15809.82,"end":15811.82,"text":"接軌其實它"},{"start":15811.82,"end":15813.82,"text":"它是在尤其是兩用的"},{"start":15813.82,"end":15815.82,"text":"這些無人機居民兩用"},{"start":15815.82,"end":15817.82,"text":"方面的一個角色也是非常"},{"start":15817.82,"end":15819.82,"text":"重要我們也會重視"},{"start":15819.82,"end":15821.82,"text":"這樣聽起來不然你是願意就是"},{"start":15821.82,"end":15823.82,"text":"開始跟中科院之間"},{"start":15823.82,"end":15825.82,"text":"開始建立一下"},{"start":15825.82,"end":15827.82,"text":"上次廚房也有找他們院長"},{"start":15827.82,"end":15829.82,"text":"一起去包括漢祥包括"},{"start":15829.82,"end":15831.82,"text":"所有這些"},{"start":15831.82,"end":15833.82,"text":"林文委員說的其實"},{"start":15833.82,"end":15835.82,"text":"您應該了解我當交通"},{"start":15835.82,"end":15837.82,"text":"部長的時候那個無人機"},{"start":15837.82,"end":15839.82,"text":"這個納入民航的專章"},{"start":15839.82,"end":15841.82,"text":"然後到怎麼跟嘉義合作"},{"start":15841.82,"end":15843.82,"text":"然後今天然後"},{"start":15843.82,"end":15845.82,"text":"整個發展剛好我還是在扮演"},{"start":15845.82,"end":15847.82,"text":"外交部的角色所以無人機外交"},{"start":15847.82,"end":15849.82,"text":"會是我們這個階段的一個"},{"start":15849.82,"end":15851.82,"text":"推動的重點也非常的成熟"},{"start":15851.82,"end":15853.82,"text":"國際也想跟我們合作"},{"start":15853.82,"end":15855.82,"text":"我們這個手冊Panflip就是"},{"start":15855.82,"end":15857.82,"text":"關於那個英文話第一優先"},{"start":15857.82,"end":15859.82,"text":"然後再來就是因為其實"},{"start":15859.82,"end":15861.82,"text":"有很多日本的廠商也有興趣"},{"start":15861.82,"end":15863.82,"text":"日本英文還有一些主要的歐洲的語言"},{"start":15863.82,"end":15865.82,"text":"好謝謝我們再"},{"start":15865.82,"end":15867.82,"text":"我們下次請教"},{"start":15868.96,"end":15870.96,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":15870.96,"end":15872.96,"text":"接下來請葉原之委員上台諮詢"},{"start":15891.87,"end":15893.87,"text":"主席好我們先請林部長"},{"start":15895.64,"end":15897.64,"text":"請部長"},{"start":15902.44,"end":15904.44,"text":"部長好現在外交部針對"},{"start":15904.44,"end":15906.44,"text":"韓國電子入境卡"},{"start":15906.44,"end":15908.44,"text":"把我們變成China跨湖台灣"},{"start":15908.44,"end":15910.44,"text":"提出反制嘛對不對現在是要"},{"start":15910.44,"end":15912.44,"text":"在那個現在反制做法"},{"start":15912.44,"end":15914.44,"text":"第一步是說要在"},{"start":15914.44,"end":15916.44,"text":"僑民的那個居留"},{"start":15916.44,"end":15918.44,"text":"居留證上面現在改成南韓"},{"start":15918.44,"end":15920.44,"text":"我想先勸諦一件事情"},{"start":15920.44,"end":15922.44,"text":"因為南韓他"},{"start":15922.44,"end":15924.44,"text":"現在是把我們標示"},{"start":15924.44,"end":15926.44,"text":"為China跨湖台灣"},{"start":15926.44,"end":15928.44,"text":"然後把對岸跨市標示"},{"start":15928.44,"end":15930.44,"text":"為China跨湖PR"},{"start":15930.44,"end":15932.44,"text":"然後香港或澳門"},{"start":15932.44,"end":15934.44,"text":"他是把後面是"},{"start":15934.44,"end":15936.44,"text":"跨湖是PR China"},{"start":15936.44,"end":15938.44,"text":"所以看得出來就是他其實把台灣"},{"start":15938.44,"end":15940.44,"text":"跟中國大陸"},{"start":15940.44,"end":15942.44,"text":"香港澳門已經有所區隔了"},{"start":15942.44,"end":15944.44,"text":"那現在外交部的立場"},{"start":15944.44,"end":15946.44,"text":"是希望他把"},{"start":15946.44,"end":15948.44,"text":"就是南韓"},{"start":15948.44,"end":15950.44,"text":"我們現在也叫南韓"},{"start":15950.44,"end":15952.44,"text":"把台灣變成The Republic of China"},{"start":15952.44,"end":15954.44,"text":"還是台灣"},{"start":15954.44,"end":15956.44,"text":"還是The Republic of China"},{"start":15956.44,"end":15958.44,"text":"台灣還是怎麼樣因為"},{"start":15958.44,"end":15960.44,"text":"我們台灣裡面這個包括"},{"start":15960.44,"end":15962.44,"text":"我們政府也都對我們"},{"start":15962.44,"end":15964.44,"text":"國家也好幾種稱呼啊"},{"start":15964.44,"end":15966.44,"text":"有時候中華民國有時候中華民國台灣"},{"start":15966.44,"end":15968.44,"text":"有時候台灣那你是希望"},{"start":15968.87,"end":15970.87,"text":"那個韓國是要標示哪一個"},{"start":15971.68,"end":15973.68,"text":"是以哪個為主還是三個隨便一個都可以"},{"start":15974.98,"end":15976.98,"text":"因為他現在是說你的下一個"},{"start":15976.98,"end":15978.98,"text":"目的地"},{"start":15978.98,"end":15980.98,"text":"跟你上一個"},{"start":15980.98,"end":15982.98,"text":"這個地點"},{"start":15982.98,"end":15984.98,"text":"這個把他寫成China"},{"start":15984.98,"end":15986.98,"text":"人家有我們是要去"},{"start":15986.98,"end":15988.98,"text":"中國啊"},{"start":15988.98,"end":15990.98,"text":"你要說中華民國當然也很好"},{"start":15990.98,"end":15992.98,"text":"所以如果是"},{"start":15992.98,"end":15994.98,"text":"ROC是OK的"},{"start":15994.98,"end":15996.98,"text":"ROC是OK的"},{"start":15996.98,"end":15998.98,"text":"然後ROC台灣"},{"start":15998.98,"end":16000.98,"text":"世界上認定的China"},{"start":16000.98,"end":16002.98,"text":"他這樣列法那當然就是"},{"start":16002.98,"end":16004.98,"text":"要先確定一下嘛所以"},{"start":16004.98,"end":16006.98,"text":"他可能就是少了RO"},{"start":16006.98,"end":16008.98,"text":"少了RO啦"},{"start":16008.98,"end":16010.98,"text":"如果他是ROC"},{"start":16011.11,"end":16013.11,"text":"然後台灣你就OK"},{"start":16013.11,"end":16015.11,"text":"但是他如果是"},{"start":16015.11,"end":16017.11,"text":"他如果是China跨湖台灣"},{"start":16017.11,"end":16019.11,"text":"因為實際上"},{"start":16019.11,"end":16021.11,"text":"應該也不會搞錯"},{"start":16021.11,"end":16023.11,"text":"因為上面就是有寫台灣嘛"},{"start":16023.11,"end":16025.11,"text":"因為我們的外交"},{"start":16025.11,"end":16027.11,"text":"我們的英文名稱也有China嘛"},{"start":16027.11,"end":16029.11,"text":"The Republic of China"},{"start":16029.11,"end":16031.11,"text":"那以後全世界都包容"},{"start":16031.11,"end":16033.11,"text":"我是要跟你確認"},{"start":16033.11,"end":16035.11,"text":"我是要跟你確認說你是"},{"start":16035.11,"end":16037.11,"text":"希望變成怎樣"},{"start":16037.11,"end":16039.11,"text":"就是ROC可以"},{"start":16039.11,"end":16041.11,"text":"ROC台灣也可以"},{"start":16041.11,"end":16043.11,"text":"台灣也可以嘛"},{"start":16043.11,"end":16045.11,"text":"最簡單台灣就是台灣"},{"start":16045.11,"end":16047.11,"text":"但是不能"},{"start":16047.11,"end":16049.11,"text":"China就直接台灣"},{"start":16049.11,"end":16051.11,"text":"這樣人家會誤會誤會說是別的地方"},{"start":16051.11,"end":16053.11,"text":"因為為什麼"},{"start":16053.11,"end":16055.11,"text":"為什麼會這樣問"},{"start":16055.11,"end":16057.11,"text":"因為我是不知道說外交部"},{"start":16057.11,"end":16059.11,"text":"到底我們政府有沒有一個跟全世界"},{"start":16059.11,"end":16061.11,"text":"的國家一致性的說法"},{"start":16061.11,"end":16063.11,"text":"你們以後稱呼我們就要"},{"start":16063.11,"end":16065.11,"text":"稱呼什麼"},{"start":16065.11,"end":16067.11,"text":"情目地地是去台灣"},{"start":16067.11,"end":16069.11,"text":"不是去中國的台灣"},{"start":16069.11,"end":16071.11,"text":"剛剛部長的講法是說三個都可以"},{"start":16071.11,"end":16073.11,"text":"三個都可以中華民國"},{"start":16073.11,"end":16075.11,"text":"台灣都可以"},{"start":16075.11,"end":16077.11,"text":"那其他國家到底知不知道這件事"},{"start":16077.11,"end":16079.11,"text":"大部分國家都叫我們台灣"},{"start":16079.11,"end":16081.11,"text":"丹麥就不是"},{"start":16081.11,"end":16083.11,"text":"這個是其實是比較正常的"},{"start":16083.11,"end":16085.11,"text":"所以你是用目的地來"},{"start":16085.11,"end":16087.11,"text":"抗議而不是以國家名在抗議"},{"start":16087.11,"end":16089.11,"text":"你是以目的地"},{"start":16089.11,"end":16091.11,"text":"是因為他把目的地搞錯"},{"start":16091.11,"end":16093.11,"text":"怕我們人家會考錯地方"},{"start":16093.11,"end":16095.11,"text":"去錯地方你是基於這個"},{"start":16095.11,"end":16097.11,"text":"原因去抗議"},{"start":16097.11,"end":16099.11,"text":"不是因為他把我們的國家搞錯"},{"start":16100.72,"end":16102.72,"text":"因為你剛剛一直在扯目的地"},{"start":16102.72,"end":16104.72,"text":"所以部分是因為這個原因"},{"start":16104.72,"end":16106.72,"text":"所以這是目的地的原因"},{"start":16106.72,"end":16108.72,"text":"那你就是要跟大家講"},{"start":16108.72,"end":16110.72,"text":"全世界講到底希望稱呼我們什麼"},{"start":16110.72,"end":16112.72,"text":"我覺得要講清楚"},{"start":16112.72,"end":16114.72,"text":"那像比如說丹麥的2020"},{"start":16114.72,"end":16116.72,"text":"他是把國籍"},{"start":16116.72,"end":16118.72,"text":"不是目的地他是國籍"},{"start":16118.72,"end":16120.72,"text":"他把台灣改成中國"},{"start":16120.72,"end":16122.72,"text":"那你有抗議"},{"start":16122.72,"end":16124.72,"text":"駕照或者是其他的政見都會受影響"},{"start":16124.72,"end":16126.72,"text":"這個"},{"start":16126.72,"end":16128.72,"text":"我會影響丹麥是不是"},{"start":16128.72,"end":16130.72,"text":"格林蘭是不是"},{"start":16130.72,"end":16132.72,"text":"丹麥的"},{"start":16132.72,"end":16134.72,"text":"還是美國的"},{"start":16134.72,"end":16136.72,"text":"我現在只是講說"},{"start":16136.72,"end":16138.72,"text":"我沒有支持你去抗議"},{"start":16138.72,"end":16140.72,"text":"但是你要讓人家知道說"},{"start":16140.72,"end":16142.72,"text":"什麼是不行"},{"start":16142.72,"end":16144.72,"text":"如果是目的地的話"},{"start":16144.72,"end":16146.72,"text":"那要寫清楚不然會走錯地方"},{"start":16146.72,"end":16148.72,"text":"如果國籍的話那到底"},{"start":16148.72,"end":16150.72,"text":"你要寫什麼"},{"start":16150.72,"end":16152.72,"text":"在我們這邊你們政府都講三種說法"},{"start":16152.72,"end":16154.72,"text":"其他國家更不會知道"},{"start":16154.72,"end":16156.72,"text":"所以第一個你要講清楚"},{"start":16156.72,"end":16158.72,"text":"我覺得我也不希望說我們"},{"start":16158.72,"end":16160.72,"text":"跟南韓變成一種惡意螺旋"},{"start":16160.72,"end":16162.72,"text":"之前南韓的總統"},{"start":16162.72,"end":16164.72,"text":"尹喜悅在宣布戒嚴的時候"},{"start":16164.72,"end":16166.72,"text":"然後"},{"start":16166.72,"end":16168.72,"text":"執政黨民進黨黨團"},{"start":16168.72,"end":16170.72,"text":"就po了一篇文章"},{"start":16170.72,"end":16172.72,"text":"他說南韓總統"},{"start":16172.72,"end":16174.72,"text":"尹喜悅為了守護自由憲法"},{"start":16174.72,"end":16176.72,"text":"宣布戒嚴"},{"start":16176.72,"end":16178.72,"text":"然後說什麼南韓國會被"},{"start":16178.72,"end":16180.72,"text":"北韓勢力操控"},{"start":16180.72,"end":16182.72,"text":"就是發文負荷"},{"start":16182.72,"end":16184.72,"text":"負荷之後自己可能也覺得好像太"},{"start":16184.72,"end":16186.72,"text":"把他刪掉了"},{"start":16186.72,"end":16188.72,"text":"南韓很多人就對這個很不滿"},{"start":16188.72,"end":16190.72,"text":"奇怪了我們國家"},{"start":16190.72,"end":16192.72,"text":"被宣布戒嚴破壞民主的事情"},{"start":16192.72,"end":16194.72,"text":"你們台灣的執政黨國會"},{"start":16194.72,"end":16196.72,"text":"居然在負荷尹喜悅"},{"start":16196.72,"end":16198.72,"text":"那所以"},{"start":16198.72,"end":16200.72,"text":"這個事情後來也不了了之"},{"start":16200.72,"end":16202.72,"text":"沒看到好像民進黨"},{"start":16202.72,"end":16204.72,"text":"有對這個事情做什麼處分"},{"start":16204.72,"end":16206.72,"text":"但是當時南韓的輿論"},{"start":16206.72,"end":16208.72,"text":"就對這件事情非常不滿"},{"start":16208.72,"end":16210.72,"text":"就覺得執政黨怎麼這樣"},{"start":16210.72,"end":16212.72,"text":"我們被戒嚴"},{"start":16212.72,"end":16214.72,"text":"違反民主的事居然"},{"start":16214.72,"end":16216.72,"text":"台灣執政黨負荷很不爽"},{"start":16216.72,"end":16218.72,"text":"那這個事情"},{"start":16218.72,"end":16220.72,"text":"今天這個事情當然"},{"start":16220.72,"end":16222.72,"text":"他如果做一些事情我們不OK"},{"start":16222.72,"end":16224.72,"text":"我們去抗議我覺得正常可是也不希望說"},{"start":16224.72,"end":16226.72,"text":"一直抵抑螺旋所以我們對於"},{"start":16226.72,"end":16228.72,"text":"南韓除了有一些"},{"start":16228.72,"end":16230.72,"text":"比較負面的互動之外"},{"start":16230.72,"end":16232.72,"text":"你們也積極想要化解一些"},{"start":16232.72,"end":16234.72,"text":"敵意有沒有"},{"start":16234.72,"end":16236.72,"text":"報告委員我們是溝通溝通再溝通"},{"start":16236.72,"end":16238.72,"text":"我們都是真的是希望大家"},{"start":16238.72,"end":16240.72,"text":"能夠這個針對"},{"start":16240.72,"end":16242.72,"text":"這個問題來解決"},{"start":16242.72,"end":16244.72,"text":"所以他們本來是因為入境"},{"start":16244.72,"end":16246.72,"text":"這個電子卡"},{"start":16246.72,"end":16248.72,"text":"要整合紙本"},{"start":16248.72,"end":16250.72,"text":"現在先暫停"},{"start":16250.72,"end":16252.72,"text":"有這個時間我們才他"},{"start":16252.72,"end":16254.72,"text":"正視我們的問題"},{"start":16254.72,"end":16256.72,"text":"所以我們不希望"},{"start":16256.72,"end":16258.72,"text":"這樣的一個所謂的"},{"start":16258.72,"end":16260.72,"text":"登記卡"},{"start":16260.72,"end":16262.72,"text":"或者是這個去影響到"},{"start":16264.72,"end":16266.72,"text":"我知道你的做法"},{"start":16266.72,"end":16268.72,"text":"我沒有說OK我現在講的是"},{"start":16268.72,"end":16270.72,"text":"我是說因為"},{"start":16270.72,"end":16272.72,"text":"最近好像跟南韓有一些"},{"start":16272.72,"end":16274.72,"text":"比較負面的新聞出來外交部"},{"start":16274.72,"end":16276.72,"text":"這邊有沒有也很積極的去"},{"start":16276.72,"end":16278.72,"text":"跟李在民政府或什麼"},{"start":16278.72,"end":16280.72,"text":"做一些比較正面的"},{"start":16280.72,"end":16282.72,"text":"互動有沒有"},{"start":16282.72,"end":16284.72,"text":"我們邱高偉代表以前是我"},{"start":16284.72,"end":16286.72,"text":"當總統他是第三局局長"},{"start":16286.72,"end":16288.72,"text":"他層次很高"},{"start":16288.72,"end":16290.72,"text":"跟他們交涉現在至少"},{"start":16290.72,"end":16292.72,"text":"見得到人以前"},{"start":16293.18,"end":16295.18,"text":"所以在跟南韓"},{"start":16295.18,"end":16297.18,"text":"他的外交部連科長都不見你"},{"start":16297.72,"end":16299.72,"text":"而且很多公文的往來"},{"start":16299.72,"end":16301.72,"text":"是真的是超乎我們"},{"start":16301.72,"end":16303.72,"text":"一般外交的規範"},{"start":16303.72,"end":16305.72,"text":"在處理"},{"start":16305.72,"end":16307.72,"text":"那如果變好的話"},{"start":16307.72,"end":16309.72,"text":"不是單一事件"},{"start":16309.72,"end":16311.72,"text":"但是我們在這個事情上"},{"start":16311.72,"end":16313.72,"text":"如果往好的方向"},{"start":16313.72,"end":16315.72,"text":"理論上來講電子入境卡這事情就應該很好解決"},{"start":16315.72,"end":16317.72,"text":"為什麼會拖得那麼久"},{"start":16317.72,"end":16319.72,"text":"拖了一兩年"},{"start":16319.72,"end":16321.72,"text":"因為你們是去年開始就在跟韓國交涉"},{"start":16321.72,"end":16323.72,"text":"所以感覺上"},{"start":16323.72,"end":16325.72,"text":"可能跟韓國關係也不是"},{"start":16325.72,"end":16327.72,"text":"你講這麼好"},{"start":16327.72,"end":16329.72,"text":"有很好的地方"},{"start":16329.72,"end":16331.72,"text":"我們在各個產業上"},{"start":16331.72,"end":16333.72,"text":"也是有合作"},{"start":16333.72,"end":16335.72,"text":"觀光旅遊文化各方面都有"},{"start":16335.72,"end":16337.72,"text":"剛剛前面的委員有問"},{"start":16337.72,"end":16339.72,"text":"我們現在能不能增加"},{"start":16339.72,"end":16341.72,"text":"邦交國因為我一直在"},{"start":16341.72,"end":16343.72,"text":"自由時報看到"},{"start":16343.72,"end":16345.72,"text":"洪都拉斯的新聞"},{"start":16345.72,"end":16347.72,"text":"他很關心洪都拉斯"},{"start":16347.72,"end":16349.72,"text":"白蝦賣的好不好"},{"start":16349.72,"end":16351.72,"text":"一直講說洪都拉斯自從跟台灣"},{"start":16351.72,"end":16353.72,"text":"淡交之後白蝦賣不出去"},{"start":16353.72,"end":16355.72,"text":"然後兩個禮拜前"},{"start":16355.72,"end":16357.72,"text":"洪都拉斯的議長說"},{"start":16357.72,"end":16359.72,"text":"希望重新與台灣恢復外交關係"},{"start":16359.72,"end":16361.72,"text":"那外交部這邊"},{"start":16361.72,"end":16363.72,"text":"有沒有什麼回應"},{"start":16363.93,"end":16365.93,"text":"對洪都拉斯"},{"start":16365.93,"end":16367.93,"text":"人家都那麼正面"},{"start":16367.93,"end":16369.93,"text":"我們也做好準備"},{"start":16369.93,"end":16371.93,"text":"但是他們國家政府"},{"start":16371.93,"end":16373.93,"text":"什麼樣的一個決定"},{"start":16373.93,"end":16375.93,"text":"我們當然是"},{"start":16375.93,"end":16377.93,"text":"也都會溝通"},{"start":16377.93,"end":16379.93,"text":"所以外交部這邊的態度是"},{"start":16379.93,"end":16381.93,"text":"反正我們就看看他怎麼說"},{"start":16381.93,"end":16383.93,"text":"白蝦賣不出去受不了"},{"start":16383.93,"end":16385.93,"text":"來找我們"},{"start":16385.93,"end":16387.93,"text":"其實阿斯陀拉總統他很重視"},{"start":16387.93,"end":16389.93,"text":"醫療教育跟創造就業"},{"start":16389.93,"end":16391.93,"text":"這三項他競選政見"},{"start":16391.93,"end":16393.93,"text":"他最重視"},{"start":16393.93,"end":16395.93,"text":"我的問題是針對建交這件事"},{"start":16395.93,"end":16397.93,"text":"他們都已經有國內"},{"start":16397.93,"end":16399.93,"text":"那麼多呼籲"},{"start":16399.93,"end":16401.93,"text":"我們有積極的去接觸還是說"},{"start":16401.93,"end":16403.93,"text":"暗兵不動"},{"start":16403.93,"end":16405.93,"text":"持續溝通中"},{"start":16405.93,"end":16407.93,"text":"所以你會有什麼信心嗎"},{"start":16407.93,"end":16409.93,"text":"就是"},{"start":16409.93,"end":16411.93,"text":"民進黨委員在問"},{"start":16411.93,"end":16413.93,"text":"隨到取成"},{"start":16413.93,"end":16415.93,"text":"是洪都拉斯嗎"},{"start":16415.93,"end":16417.93,"text":"還是其他國家"},{"start":16417.93,"end":16419.93,"text":"說實在"},{"start":16419.93,"end":16421.93,"text":"之前洪都拉斯的"},{"start":16421.93,"end":16423.93,"text":"政府卡斯楚"},{"start":16423.93,"end":16425.93,"text":"他們到底簽了些什麼東西"},{"start":16425.93,"end":16427.93,"text":"也是要釐清"},{"start":16427.93,"end":16429.93,"text":"這個都是他們需要一點時間"},{"start":16429.93,"end":16431.93,"text":"有對外講"},{"start":16431.93,"end":16433.93,"text":"然後華為在那邊的影響力也是很大"},{"start":16433.93,"end":16435.93,"text":"所以你的意思說"},{"start":16435.93,"end":16437.93,"text":"沒有像他們想樂觀"},{"start":16437.93,"end":16439.93,"text":"還是有一些因素"},{"start":16439.93,"end":16441.93,"text":"這樣就繼續努力"},{"start":16441.93,"end":16443.93,"text":"繼續努力"},{"start":16446.59,"end":16448.59,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":16448.11,"end":16450.11,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":16453.83,"end":16455.83,"text":"今天以登記質詢的委員"},{"start":16455.83,"end":16457.83,"text":"除不在場外均已發言完畢"},{"start":16457.83,"end":16459.83,"text":"報告及詢答結束"},{"start":16459.83,"end":16461.83,"text":"本日會議有楊瓊英委員"},{"start":16461.83,"end":16463.83,"text":"羅志強委員提出書面質詢"},{"start":16463.83,"end":16465.83,"text":"請列入記錄並刊登公報"},{"start":16465.83,"end":16467.83,"text":"委員書面及口頭質詢"},{"start":16467.83,"end":16469.83,"text":"未及答覆的部分"},{"start":16469.83,"end":16471.83,"text":"或要求補充資料者"},{"start":16471.83,"end":16473.83,"text":"請外交部兩週內以書面答覆"},{"start":16473.83,"end":16475.83,"text":"委員有約定期限者"},{"start":16475.83,"end":16477.83,"text":"從其鎖定"},{"start":16477.83,"end":16479.83,"text":"本日會議到此結束"},{"start":16479.83,"end":16481.83,"text":"三會"}],"speakers":[{"total_seconds":5421.04,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_00","speaker":"SPEAKER_00","embedding":"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"},{"total_seconds":913.06,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_01","speaker":"SPEAKER_01","embedding":"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"},{"total_seconds":683.4,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_02","speaker":"SPEAKER_02","embedding":"p0MzvXua6jy7lSE+OMesvVzpJL3jCIs9SIJbPdh4o72x3pK9XSgqPWZwsL3G5JI82XvivFhTcr017vy7K+bUPOg8q7uvIoC9JdAFPoTgDj3Eg/K9Sg1nvcsSSz3UeJE9wTk9PfdA/zzsyrM832yOvScF3b30ynQ9zixJPWjEMTuO0ue80RamvaTrSD0fhrU8I9YTPfT0q7xSa1A9ioJ5vc5YLj0Bzm09U3huvYIbmr3zQII95FUmPfNK073jxJ49oWKhvRmEfT2pZ4G8zuSQPcOO7jzbggi7+Y0MvZWZu7zthfw8fSr1vWixmr22pme7f8mBPR0IkDzhWxC9SnRIPYcWBD1FBK09IXCovXAL1jzyNiU+btv/PCQjkL104xM99x6hPQAxsr0jfSC9o4x5PcnbIjwoDLO8454zPf2wGr6tHWO8oQ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