{"error":false,"id":["17290"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":17290,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17290","日期":"2026-03-23","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-20-4","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期財政委員會第4次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":4,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期財政委員會第4次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Full","開始時間":"2026-03-23T08:36:48+08:00","結束時間":"2026-03-23T11:47:00+08:00","影片長度":"03:10:12","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b41997f390c3528e9cf9f4066bc87ed1a2ee849b0a1a892444e0a145e6cc6f0fc3da55a8979819175ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-03-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：審查本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員林思銘等21人分別擬具「虛擬資產服務法草案」等2案。（僅詢答））","委員名稱":"完整會議","委員發言時間":"08:36:48 - 11:47:00","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":689.4084687500001,"end":691.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1433.71409375,"end":1438.2534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1438.62471875,"end":1441.6453437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1442.16846875,"end":1447.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1448.1590937500002,"end":1480.3565937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1480.9303437500002,"end":1493.2322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1494.1603437500003,"end":1515.7265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1516.28346875,"end":1531.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1533.7322187500001,"end":1537.1240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1537.79909375,"end":1543.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":1544.1947187500002,"end":1551.9572187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1553.96534375,"end":1557.4415937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1560.96846875,"end":1569.8784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1573.3209687500002,"end":1576.8140937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1580.3072187500002,"end":1586.3484687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1589.1497187500001,"end":1592.8790937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1595.3934687500002,"end":1597.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1599.8990937500002,"end":1601.9747187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1604.2022187500002,"end":1606.2440937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1608.7415937500002,"end":1610.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1614.0403437500001,"end":1616.0315937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1616.5715937500001,"end":1617.3478437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1617.51659375,"end":1618.4615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1619.4065937500002,"end":1620.3009687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1620.5372187500002,"end":1621.1953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1622.6803437500002,"end":1626.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1627.1690937500002,"end":1627.7259687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1628.4009687500002,"end":1631.7590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1632.4003437500003,"end":1635.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1637.2603437500002,"end":1640.2303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1641.5972187500001,"end":1642.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1642.8797187500002,"end":1643.6053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1644.51659375,"end":1646.7272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1650.0853437500002,"end":1651.9922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1654.62471875,"end":1657.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1660.0415937500002,"end":1661.4253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1661.6953437500001,"end":1666.5722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1667.1290937500003,"end":1668.2259687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1670.65596875,"end":1674.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1677.43971875,"end":1694.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1697.2847187500001,"end":1698.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1702.3640937500002,"end":1703.2247187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1704.1865937500002,"end":1707.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1707.6122187500002,"end":1713.5859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1713.6534687500002,"end":1716.7078437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1717.0284687500002,"end":1720.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1720.9265937500002,"end":1723.5084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1723.8628437500001,"end":1729.6340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1730.3259687500001,"end":1742.0372187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1742.3072187500002,"end":1744.5347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1744.8384687500002,"end":1748.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1748.43284375,"end":1750.7447187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1750.8122187500003,"end":1752.5503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1752.9047187500003,"end":1761.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1761.94971875,"end":1769.7628437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1770.0159687500002,"end":1778.4703437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1778.9259687500003,"end":1782.8578437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1783.1953437500001,"end":1785.3553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1785.69284375,"end":1788.4603437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1788.7472187500002,"end":1790.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1791.0084687500002,"end":1796.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1796.94846875,"end":1800.9647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1801.30221875,"end":1803.1247187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1803.6140937500002,"end":1804.0190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1804.3734687500003,"end":1808.1028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1808.3222187500003,"end":1813.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1814.12721875,"end":1819.8309687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1820.16846875,"end":1822.6659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1823.0034687500001,"end":1827.3740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1828.04909375,"end":1837.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1839.0515937500002,"end":1845.7847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1851.8259687500001,"end":1854.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1854.7790937500001,"end":1875.5859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1875.83909375,"end":1881.0703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1881.9140937500001,"end":1884.3947187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1884.5128437500002,"end":1892.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1893.3722187500002,"end":1898.8903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1899.1772187500003,"end":1908.8465937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1909.7747187500001,"end":1933.9734687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1935.0028437500002,"end":1936.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1937.0953437500002,"end":1942.4447187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1942.9003437500003,"end":1944.9928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1945.73534375,"end":1948.3678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1948.84034375,"end":1955.2865937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1955.8265937500003,"end":1964.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1965.0234687500001,"end":1971.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1973.29221875,"end":1978.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1979.2659687500002,"end":1990.6903437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1991.0953437500002,"end":1994.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1994.8922187500002,"end":2003.6503437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2004.39284375,"end":2009.2190937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2010.14721875,"end":2014.5347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2015.0409687500003,"end":2018.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2018.8040937500002,"end":2033.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2034.0422187500003,"end":2053.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2054.00534375,"end":2066.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2066.66159375,"end":2068.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2068.46721875,"end":2071.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2072.56784375,"end":2114.3672187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2114.50221875,"end":2117.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2117.5565937500005,"end":2121.1678437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2122.23096875,"end":2129.8584687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2130.17909375,"end":2136.9628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2137.60409375,"end":2141.9578437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2142.4303437500002,"end":2146.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2146.9528437500003,"end":2154.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2154.15846875,"end":2159.3053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2159.7272187500002,"end":2162.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2163.1022187500002,"end":2169.0253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2169.0759687500004,"end":2173.6490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2178.2559687500006,"end":2179.0828437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2179.4372187500003,"end":2202.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2217.3047187500006,"end":2225.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2226.43409375,"end":2227.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2227.9697187500005,"end":2230.1297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2230.87221875,"end":2231.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2232.2390937500004,"end":2232.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2235.5634687500005,"end":2236.8797187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2236.96409375,"end":2237.5547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2238.12846875,"end":2243.9334687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2244.1697187500004,"end":2247.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2248.43909375,"end":2250.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2250.95346875,"end":2260.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2262.36096875,"end":2298.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2298.20346875,"end":2302.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2302.60784375,"end":2303.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2303.56971875,"end":2307.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2307.5690937500003,"end":2317.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2317.5253437500005,"end":2321.2715937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2321.54159375,"end":2332.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2332.9997187500003,"end":2337.1003437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2337.38721875,"end":2344.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2344.5759687500004,"end":2351.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2350.8028437500006,"end":2387.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2357.45159375,"end":2358.0084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2388.4509687500004,"end":2397.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2397.6140937500004,"end":2399.0653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2399.40284375,"end":2430.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2430.55409375,"end":2437.3884687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2437.6415937500005,"end":2452.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2453.4197187500004,"end":2456.1365937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2456.28846875,"end":2457.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2457.8240937500004,"end":2461.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2461.09784375,"end":2462.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2462.31284375,"end":2464.0847187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2464.42221875,"end":2466.6328437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2466.8015937500004,"end":2468.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2468.6747187500005,"end":2475.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2474.73284375,"end":2476.1503437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2475.50909375,"end":2477.8884687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2477.26409375,"end":2477.9053437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2477.9053437500006,"end":2478.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2478.51284375,"end":2489.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2489.78534375,"end":2493.0759687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2493.6159687500003,"end":2494.6622187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2495.23596875,"end":2522.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2523.0459687500006,"end":2536.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2536.7147187500004,"end":2540.0390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2540.4609687500006,"end":2541.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2541.55784375,"end":2542.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2542.84034375,"end":2565.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2565.41909375,"end":2569.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2570.24534375,"end":2570.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2570.32971875,"end":2576.4890937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2570.48159375,"end":2570.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2576.80971875,"end":2584.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2584.8084687500004,"end":2592.4022187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2592.36846875,"end":2592.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2592.43596875,"end":2597.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2597.9372187500003,"end":2607.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2607.9440937500003,"end":2625.1228437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2625.34221875,"end":2636.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2636.54721875,"end":2637.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2638.0997187500006,"end":2639.4834687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2640.64784375,"end":2644.5459687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2645.1872187500003,"end":2663.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2663.59784375,"end":2668.3397187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2668.55909375,"end":2669.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2671.98471875,"end":2675.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2672.40659375,"end":2672.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2673.1153437500006,"end":2673.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2677.60409375,"end":2688.3534687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2691.40784375,"end":2692.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2693.1797187500006,"end":2693.6690937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2693.98971875,"end":2695.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2696.68971875,"end":2697.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2698.0565937500005,"end":2700.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2700.92534375,"end":2701.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2702.0897187500004,"end":2704.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2704.6209687500004,"end":2712.7715937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2713.32846875,"end":2718.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2719.5047187500004,"end":2719.7409687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2720.3653437500006,"end":2721.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2722.5759687500004,"end":2722.8122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2722.91346875,"end":2723.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2726.54159375,"end":2726.9803437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2727.01409375,"end":2728.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2728.9715937500005,"end":2729.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2730.38909375,"end":2732.1609687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2736.0759687500004,"end":2738.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2740.09221875,"end":2743.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2744.90159375,"end":2748.3272187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2748.7490937500006,"end":2761.5740937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2761.9959687500004,"end":2788.9453437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2789.40096875,"end":2789.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2789.82284375,"end":2811.4059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2811.6084687500006,"end":2818.0378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2818.32471875,"end":2826.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2826.81284375,"end":2830.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2831.09909375,"end":2833.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2833.44471875,"end":2833.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2833.91721875,"end":2834.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2834.84534375,"end":2853.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2853.64409375,"end":2857.7615937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2857.9472187500005,"end":2863.4822187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2863.7859687500004,"end":2882.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2867.31284375,"end":2867.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2867.7684687500005,"end":2867.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2867.80221875,"end":2867.9034687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2882.6522187500004,"end":2900.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2895.4265937500004,"end":2896.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2900.3034687500003,"end":2900.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2900.35409375,"end":2902.4297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2902.56471875,"end":2903.3240937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2903.0709687500002,"end":2903.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2903.2059687500005,"end":2903.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2903.3240937500004,"end":2903.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2903.35784375,"end":2903.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2903.40846875,"end":2903.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2903.42534375,"end":2903.4590937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2904.03284375,"end":2909.5847187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2920.6884687500005,"end":2920.9753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2920.9753437500003,"end":2921.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2921.02596875,"end":2921.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2921.97096875,"end":2922.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2923.3378437500005,"end":2924.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2927.2528437500005,"end":2928.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2928.36659375,"end":2934.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2935.18409375,"end":2935.6228437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2936.1797187500006,"end":2940.8709687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2941.14096875,"end":2941.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2942.3053437500002,"end":2945.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2945.6465937500006,"end":2948.6503437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2949.39284375,"end":2949.8484687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2950.2028437500003,"end":2951.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2951.7722187500003,"end":2953.2234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2953.67909375,"end":2956.0078437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2956.5309687500003,"end":2957.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2957.7965937500003,"end":2958.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2959.21409375,"end":2962.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2963.38221875,"end":2967.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2968.19159375,"end":2971.7184687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2971.93784375,"end":2974.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":2974.8740937500006,"end":2975.1778437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2975.1778437500006,"end":2975.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2975.32971875,"end":2980.7634687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2981.26971875,"end":2986.4503437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2986.8047187500006,"end":2994.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2994.4997187500003,"end":3027.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3028.23284375,"end":3033.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3034.5440937500007,"end":3035.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3036.67034375,"end":3037.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3037.7840937500005,"end":3038.2734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3038.96534375,"end":3039.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3040.16346875,"end":3040.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3041.12534375,"end":3042.7959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3043.1503437500005,"end":3049.2253437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3049.5459687500006,"end":3050.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3050.96346875,"end":3054.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3055.5703437500006,"end":3057.3084687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3057.5615937500006,"end":3059.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3059.99159375,"end":3062.7422187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3063.4678437500006,"end":3069.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3069.39096875,"end":3078.6553437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3078.9590937500006,"end":3082.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3082.7559687500006,"end":3088.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3089.0840937500006,"end":3099.5634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3099.6815937500005,"end":3105.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3105.38534375,"end":3107.7478437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3108.3553437500004,"end":3113.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3113.50221875,"end":3113.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3114.66659375,"end":3121.1297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3121.5515937500004,"end":3125.1797187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3125.50034375,"end":3128.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3128.52096875,"end":3129.4997187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3130.25909375,"end":3132.7565937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3133.4147187500002,"end":3137.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3138.40971875,"end":3140.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3141.4303437500002,"end":3143.0672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3143.40471875,"end":3144.7547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3145.6490937500002,"end":3148.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3148.75409375,"end":3151.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3151.6228437500004,"end":3155.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3155.9090937500005,"end":3160.6003437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3161.0897187500004,"end":3165.6797187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3165.83159375,"end":3168.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3168.58221875,"end":3169.9490937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3170.3203437500006,"end":3182.1834687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3172.2440937500005,"end":3172.4297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3182.45346875,"end":3185.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3185.94659375,"end":3193.5065937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3193.6922187500004,"end":3221.0465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3221.8903437500003,"end":3221.9072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3221.9072187500005,"end":3222.2784687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3222.78471875,"end":3222.8015937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3222.8015937500004,"end":3222.8184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3222.8184687500006,"end":3225.7547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3226.3115937500006,"end":3228.7753437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3229.9734687500004,"end":3232.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3232.8253437500007,"end":3235.4072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3236.0822187500007,"end":3242.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3243.2878437500003,"end":3244.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3245.1103437500005,"end":3245.3972187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3245.9034687500007,"end":3248.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3249.0759687500004,"end":3250.8815937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3251.52284375,"end":3254.2734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3254.5772187500006,"end":3256.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3256.9734687500004,"end":3258.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3259.2684687500005,"end":3260.6690937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3261.34409375,"end":3272.4647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3273.5447187500004,"end":3278.2697187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3278.64096875,"end":3281.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3281.05409375,"end":3284.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3281.3915937500005,"end":3281.4590937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3285.1209687500004,"end":3288.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3288.58034375,"end":3292.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3293.6934687500006,"end":3296.3259687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3296.5284687500007,"end":3296.9334687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3297.20346875,"end":3302.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3302.99159375,"end":3303.1940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3303.34596875,"end":3306.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3306.8728437500004,"end":3308.3747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3308.96534375,"end":3311.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3312.52596875,"end":3313.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3313.9772187500002,"end":3318.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3318.3984687500006,"end":3320.7947187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3321.3515937500006,"end":3322.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3322.7184687500003,"end":3323.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3325.0134687500004,"end":3327.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3327.03846875,"end":3328.4728437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3327.7472187500007,"end":3329.4178437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3330.1603437500007,"end":3341.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3332.3709687500004,"end":3332.7928437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3341.1797187500006,"end":3342.8503437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3343.3903437500003,"end":3346.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3347.1872187500003,"end":3352.7390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3353.3634687500007,"end":3356.9072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3357.24471875,"end":3362.2734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3363.03284375,"end":3364.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3365.2940937500007,"end":3366.9647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3367.36971875,"end":3370.5084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3371.09909375,"end":3377.6803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3378.3722187500007,"end":3383.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3384.66659375,"end":3389.4590937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3390.69096875,"end":3394.7578437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3395.21346875,"end":3396.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3397.1709687500006,"end":3398.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3398.33534375,"end":3411.6328437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3411.76784375,"end":3413.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3414.7547187500004,"end":3415.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3416.5603437500004,"end":3419.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3420.03659375,"end":3420.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3421.16721875,"end":3422.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3423.8503437500003,"end":3424.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3424.49159375,"end":3425.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3426.3309687500005,"end":3426.6853437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3426.85409375,"end":3429.6384687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3430.27971875,"end":3430.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3431.2078437500004,"end":3431.7647187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3432.20346875,"end":3433.7390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3433.9753437500003,"end":3435.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3435.46034375,"end":3436.1690937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3436.65846875,"end":3439.7634687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3440.23596875,"end":3441.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3442.21034375,"end":3443.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3443.1553437500006,"end":3445.5515937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3446.00721875,"end":3447.6609687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3448.77471875,"end":3449.0447187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3449.9053437500006,"end":3450.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3450.95159375,"end":3452.5547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3452.9765937500006,"end":3454.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3455.23784375,"end":3457.4315937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3458.0897187500004,"end":3460.1315937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3460.7390937500004,"end":3462.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3462.8484687500004,"end":3480.0778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3480.78659375,"end":3481.9509687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3482.4572187500007,"end":3484.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3484.8365937500002,"end":3487.8740937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3488.4815937500007,"end":3494.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3495.1472187500003,"end":3498.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3498.8428437500006,"end":3501.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3501.82971875,"end":3502.3190937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3502.9940937500005,"end":3510.2334687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3510.67221875,"end":3513.7940937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3514.0303437500006,"end":3515.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3515.5997187500006,"end":3516.0047187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3516.0047187500004,"end":3521.9278437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3520.3415937500004,"end":3520.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3522.24846875,"end":3527.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3525.5390937500006,"end":3526.5684687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3526.5684687500006,"end":3526.6022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3526.6022187500002,"end":3526.6190937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3526.6190937500005,"end":3526.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3528.2559687500006,"end":3536.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3541.72221875,"end":3543.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3544.91159375,"end":3545.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3547.8984687500006,"end":3553.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3548.75909375,"end":3549.4678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3553.6865937500006,"end":3558.0740937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3557.8209687500002,"end":3558.5634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3558.47909375,"end":3565.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3565.1784687500003,"end":3568.6209687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3565.39784375,"end":3565.4315937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3565.4315937500005,"end":3565.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3568.84034375,"end":3569.4815937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3571.01721875,"end":3582.6609687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3582.94784375,"end":3587.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3588.0778437500003,"end":3591.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3592.09409375,"end":3596.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3596.5322187500005,"end":3603.5353437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3604.3622187500005,"end":3621.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3622.2159687500007,"end":3654.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3654.66659375,"end":3720.0234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3720.78284375,"end":3746.2303437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3747.05721875,"end":3750.8709687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3751.37721875,"end":3754.5665937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3754.6847187500007,"end":3758.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3758.73471875,"end":3781.4315937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3781.65096875,"end":3783.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3784.3340937500006,"end":3793.8009687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3794.40846875,"end":3805.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3805.5459687500006,"end":3818.2697187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3816.9197187500004,"end":3819.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3818.77596875,"end":3819.0459687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3820.0584687500004,"end":3821.5772187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3821.9822187500004,"end":3826.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3826.5047187500004,"end":3836.2247187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3836.4609687500006,"end":3848.1384687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3847.1090937500003,"end":3847.7165937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3848.35784375,"end":3876.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3876.6403437500003,"end":3877.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3877.93971875,"end":3896.2490937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3895.97909375,"end":3915.9590937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3896.9072187500005,"end":3897.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3911.5547187500006,"end":3912.0440937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3913.8497187500006,"end":3914.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3915.9928437500002,"end":3920.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3916.3640937500004,"end":3916.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3916.39784375,"end":3916.4147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3916.4147187500002,"end":3916.4315937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3916.4315937500005,"end":3916.4484687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3916.4484687500008,"end":3916.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3916.53284375,"end":3916.6172187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3916.6172187500006,"end":3916.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3920.0597187500007,"end":3921.0047187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3920.5828437500004,"end":3943.7859687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3944.4609687500006,"end":3948.1397187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3948.3084687500004,"end":3966.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3966.9890937500004,"end":3970.0265937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3970.3640937500004,"end":3979.1222187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3979.2234687500004,"end":3983.1553437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3979.6453437500004,"end":3979.9659687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3984.13409375,"end":3993.6178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3993.78659375,"end":3994.9172187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3995.2715937500006,"end":3997.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3997.6172187500006,"end":3999.6084687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3999.8953437500004,"end":4021.9003437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4022.0690937500003,"end":4027.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4022.11971875,"end":4022.1872187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4023.0309687500003,"end":4023.5203437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4027.9753437500003,"end":4041.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4034.5397187500002,"end":4034.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4034.70846875,"end":4034.9109687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4034.9109687500004,"end":4035.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4035.29909375,"end":4035.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4035.7040937500005,"end":4035.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4035.9403437500005,"end":4036.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4036.02471875,"end":4036.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4036.44659375,"end":4036.4972187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4041.9647187500004,"end":4049.0353437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4049.3390937500008,"end":4058.7722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4059.3290937500005,"end":4070.6690937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4068.8972187500003,"end":4094.8678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4094.8678437500002,"end":4095.5934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4095.1209687500004,"end":4107.135968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4098.7997187500005,"end":4099.204718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4107.72659375,"end":4110.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4110.325343750001,"end":4113.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4111.202843749999,"end":4111.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4112.73846875,"end":4116.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4116.889718750001,"end":4142.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4142.421593749999,"end":4144.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4145.138468749999,"end":4149.407843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4156.27596875,"end":4158.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4163.39721875,"end":4163.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4164.645968750001,"end":4223.421593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4223.50596875,"end":4248.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4240.78596875,"end":4241.342843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4241.342843750001,"end":4241.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4241.35971875,"end":4241.376593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4248.936593750001,"end":4291.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4291.69784375,"end":4293.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4293.503468749999,"end":4321.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4322.12346875,"end":4323.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4323.30471875,"end":4324.401593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4325.59971875,"end":4326.409718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4326.67971875,"end":4336.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4336.635968750001,"end":4337.6990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4337.985968749999,"end":4338.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4339.487843749999,"end":4342.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4343.149718750001,"end":4343.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4343.16659375,"end":4351.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4351.671593749999,"end":4356.362843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4354.624718749999,"end":4354.810343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4356.362843749999,"end":4356.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4356.649718750001,"end":4361.847218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4362.35346875,"end":4387.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4364.327843749999,"end":4364.429093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4381.23659375,"end":4381.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4381.27034375,"end":4381.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4383.37971875,"end":4383.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4387.733468750001,"end":4409.890343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4399.107218749999,"end":4399.529093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4399.529093749999,"end":4399.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4409.890343749999,"end":4460.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4449.732218749999,"end":4449.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4449.9853437500005,"end":4450.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4460.97096875,"end":4473.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4468.1259687500005,"end":4468.497218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4472.59784375,"end":4473.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4473.458468750001,"end":4473.644093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4473.644093749999,"end":4474.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4474.0322187500005,"end":4475.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4475.061593750001,"end":4475.483468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4475.63534375,"end":4475.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4475.9559687500005,"end":4480.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4479.19596875,"end":4483.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4483.43159375,"end":4496.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4496.49284375,"end":4499.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4499.5809687500005,"end":4500.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4501.2684687500005,"end":4505.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4506.128468749999,"end":4508.001593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4508.45721875,"end":4518.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4519.37534375,"end":4521.501593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4521.67034375,"end":4522.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4523.02034375,"end":4525.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4525.3153437500005,"end":4527.795968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4528.4540937500005,"end":4549.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4550.12159375,"end":4552.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4552.264718750001,"end":4573.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4573.64534375,"end":4573.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4573.93221875,"end":4589.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4590.62159375,"end":4591.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4592.292218750001,"end":4599.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4599.76784375,"end":4601.185343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4601.91096875,"end":4604.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4604.50971875,"end":4607.749718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4607.800343749999,"end":4608.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4609.33596875,"end":4611.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4611.647843750001,"end":4614.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4614.685343749999,"end":4617.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4618.36409375,"end":4619.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4620.085343750001,"end":4621.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4621.89096875,"end":4623.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4623.6122187500005,"end":4624.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4625.198468750001,"end":4630.716593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4631.72909375,"end":4632.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4632.85971875,"end":4644.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4645.296593749999,"end":4671.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4650.359093749999,"end":4650.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4671.16596875,"end":4673.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4673.68034375,"end":4674.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4674.507218750001,"end":4674.743468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4676.0428437499995,"end":4676.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4676.059718750001,"end":4702.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4702.04721875,"end":4702.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4702.18221875,"end":4721.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4707.63284375,"end":4707.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4721.03159375,"end":4722.364718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4722.364718750001,"end":4722.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4722.63471875,"end":4758.7303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4757.81909375,"end":4757.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4759.27034375,"end":4773.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4765.210343750001,"end":4765.497218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4766.610968749999,"end":4766.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4766.6278437500005,"end":4767.032843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4767.032843749999,"end":4767.876593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4773.02346875,"end":4790.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4790.4384687500005,"end":4791.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4790.97846875,"end":4794.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4793.239718750001,"end":4794.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4794.33659375,"end":4810.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4805.11971875,"end":4805.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4805.17034375,"end":4805.423468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4805.423468749999,"end":4805.474093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4807.7353437500005,"end":4809.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4810.97534375,"end":4811.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4811.059718750001,"end":4811.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4811.49846875,"end":4816.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4822.55159375,"end":4824.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4829.655968749999,"end":4830.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4830.56721875,"end":4830.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4831.545968750001,"end":4834.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4832.153468750001,"end":4832.609093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4835.35971875,"end":4835.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4836.76034375,"end":4837.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4838.49846875,"end":4838.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4842.1434687500005,"end":4842.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4844.286593750001,"end":4867.4559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4867.69221875,"end":4870.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4870.74659375,"end":4873.0584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4873.311593750001,"end":4873.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4874.27346875,"end":4878.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4878.795968750001,"end":4886.9803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4887.06471875,"end":4889.9334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4890.30471875,"end":4893.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4893.7978437500005,"end":4895.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4896.6834687499995,"end":4901.762843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4902.1678437499995,"end":4910.942843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4911.0947187500005,"end":4922.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4923.362843750001,"end":4924.763468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4923.37971875,"end":4925.286593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4925.522843750001,"end":4927.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4925.573468750001,"end":4926.079718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4927.64909375,"end":4929.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4929.927218750001,"end":4935.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4936.3397187499995,"end":4941.132218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4940.64284375,"end":4951.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4951.8309687500005,"end":4976.755343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4977.126593749999,"end":4984.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4985.057843750001,"end":4994.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4994.72721875,"end":4998.135968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4998.30471875,"end":5022.689093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5022.8915937500005,"end":5027.245343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5026.13159375,"end":5051.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5051.41034375,"end":5078.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5078.9334687499995,"end":5080.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5081.12721875,"end":5120.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5121.23909375,"end":5123.888468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5124.02346875,"end":5159.140343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5159.35971875,"end":5167.442843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5167.442843750001,"end":5167.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5167.84784375,"end":5171.712218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5171.847218750001,"end":5181.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5181.76971875,"end":5184.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5184.33471875,"end":5184.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5184.35159375,"end":5189.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5184.53721875,"end":5184.689093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5190.3084687499995,"end":5193.177218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5193.700343750001,"end":5206.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5206.37346875,"end":5216.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5216.58284375,"end":5219.704718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5219.097218750001,"end":5219.890343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5219.890343749999,"end":5255.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5219.92409375,"end":5220.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5251.64909375,"end":5251.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5252.897843750001,"end":5252.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5252.948468750001,"end":5253.032843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5253.134093750001,"end":5253.1678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5257.18409375,"end":5275.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5275.42596875,"end":5285.044718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5285.31471875,"end":5301.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5301.885968750001,"end":5302.679093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5302.8309687500005,"end":5306.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5306.91471875,"end":5309.294093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5309.41221875,"end":5329.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5329.8309687500005,"end":5333.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5333.661593750001,"end":5342.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5341.812218749999,"end":5349.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5343.128468750001,"end":5343.651593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5349.220343749999,"end":5363.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5363.952218750001,"end":5375.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5375.41034375,"end":5381.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5381.82284375,"end":5382.734093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5382.835343750001,"end":5388.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5387.189093749999,"end":5402.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5388.927218750001,"end":5389.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5396.45346875,"end":5396.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5402.950343750001,"end":5403.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5403.01784375,"end":5403.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5403.06846875,"end":5405.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5403.25409375,"end":5404.1990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5404.6884687500005,"end":5409.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5409.7509687500005,"end":5414.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5416.264718750001,"end":5417.057843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5416.956593750001,"end":5420.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5420.196593750001,"end":5450.1834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5450.571593750001,"end":5462.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5462.569718750001,"end":5503.626593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5503.778468750001,"end":5506.7147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5506.7147187499995,"end":5510.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5510.376593749999,"end":5514.224093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5514.57846875,"end":5524.298468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5524.298468749999,"end":5529.884093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5530.79534375,"end":5531.841593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5531.841593749999,"end":5532.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5532.56721875,"end":5533.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5533.495343750001,"end":5537.0897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5537.22471875,"end":5541.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5538.591593749999,"end":5538.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5541.966593749999,"end":5545.729718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5557.05284375,"end":5559.179093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5559.53346875,"end":5561.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5562.0478437500005,"end":5562.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5562.975968750001,"end":5564.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5564.5115937499995,"end":5566.671593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5569.27034375,"end":5570.569718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5571.6834687499995,"end":5572.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5572.03784375,"end":5572.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5573.64096875,"end":5574.653468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5575.69971875,"end":5579.429093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5580.10409375,"end":5582.095343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5582.83784375,"end":5583.9178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5584.542218750001,"end":5585.571593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5586.06096875,"end":5587.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5588.001593749999,"end":5592.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5594.059718750001,"end":5594.279093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5594.667218750001,"end":5596.118468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5596.776593750001,"end":5599.5272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5599.93221875,"end":5602.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5603.02034375,"end":5614.866593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5615.59221875,"end":5618.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5618.714093750001,"end":5635.589093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5636.145968750001,"end":5640.465968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5640.90471875,"end":5643.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5643.30096875,"end":5653.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5652.936593750001,"end":5659.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5659.0790937500005,"end":5659.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5659.4334687499995,"end":5662.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5660.057843750001,"end":5660.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5660.749718749999,"end":5663.567843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5663.34846875,"end":5675.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5676.39284375,"end":5685.1678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5687.26034375,"end":5687.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5687.91846875,"end":5689.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5689.97721875,"end":5690.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5691.63096875,"end":5717.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5715.745343750001,"end":5719.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5720.74034375,"end":5722.259093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5722.56284375,"end":5724.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5726.49471875,"end":5730.780968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5731.1522187499995,"end":5744.888468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5732.4853437500005,"end":5734.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5745.276593750001,"end":5746.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5749.343468749999,"end":5751.267218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5752.2459687499995,"end":5753.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5753.342843750001,"end":5754.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5755.04721875,"end":5757.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5757.882218750001,"end":5761.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5762.522843750001,"end":5765.712218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5766.454718749999,"end":5769.779093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5769.930968750001,"end":5770.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5771.55096875,"end":5771.854718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5772.25971875,"end":5773.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5774.200343750001,"end":5775.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5775.71909375,"end":5776.545968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5777.288468750001,"end":5778.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5779.212218750001,"end":5780.106593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5780.64659375,"end":5783.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5783.0428437499995,"end":5783.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5783.852843750001,"end":5787.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5787.362843750001,"end":5789.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5789.708468750001,"end":5790.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5791.09221875,"end":5793.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5794.0115937499995,"end":5797.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5797.0322187500005,"end":5797.825343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5798.6522187499995,"end":5808.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5809.14846875,"end":5835.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5833.954718750001,"end":5836.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5836.030343750001,"end":5837.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5837.07659375,"end":5837.616593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5837.81909375,"end":5838.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5838.038468750001,"end":5860.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5861.44409375,"end":5862.608468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5862.89534375,"end":5868.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5869.29096875,"end":5871.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5872.109093749999,"end":5872.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5873.25659375,"end":5881.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5882.335343750001,"end":5890.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5889.642218750001,"end":5891.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5891.667218750001,"end":5891.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5891.68409375,"end":5891.700968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5891.700968749999,"end":5891.717843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5891.717843750001,"end":5892.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5892.20721875,"end":5893.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5893.97909375,"end":5903.327843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5902.534718750001,"end":5905.774718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5906.2978437500005,"end":5913.182843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5913.554093750001,"end":5915.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5915.20784375,"end":5915.9334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5916.47346875,"end":5921.012843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5921.282843750001,"end":5924.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5924.45534375,"end":5926.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5926.159718750001,"end":5933.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5933.07846875,"end":5935.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5936.45346875,"end":5937.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5938.545968750001,"end":5946.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5939.372843749999,"end":5940.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5940.38534375,"end":5940.4022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5941.1278437500005,"end":5941.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5941.212218750001,"end":5942.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5946.089093750001,"end":5967.739718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5968.920968750001,"end":5970.7772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5971.485968750001,"end":5972.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5973.57846875,"end":5976.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5976.835343750001,"end":5981.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5980.682843750001,"end":5989.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5984.02409375,"end":5984.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5986.538468750001,"end":5990.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5989.964093750001,"end":5990.149718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5990.149718750001,"end":5990.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5990.21721875,"end":5990.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5990.2509687500005,"end":5990.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5990.36909375,"end":5991.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5992.2928437499995,"end":5994.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5992.90034375,"end":5996.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5997.15284375,"end":6000.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5999.9540937500005,"end":6000.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6001.405343750001,"end":6007.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6009.876593750001,"end":6015.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6016.55909375,"end":6017.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6018.887843750001,"end":6021.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6021.33471875,"end":6024.591593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6024.99659375,"end":6025.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6025.958468750001,"end":6026.515343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6026.65034375,"end":6027.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6027.561593750001,"end":6029.282843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6030.85221875,"end":6031.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6032.74221875,"end":6035.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6034.27784375,"end":6037.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6037.23096875,"end":6037.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6037.97346875,"end":6038.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6038.02409375,"end":6039.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6039.9647187499995,"end":6040.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6040.47096875,"end":6045.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6043.997843749999,"end":6045.702218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6045.71909375,"end":6045.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6045.82034375,"end":6045.837218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6045.887843750001,"end":6052.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6045.972218750001,"end":6046.630343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6049.397843750001,"end":6049.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6052.09784375,"end":6054.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6054.780968749999,"end":6055.624718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6055.18596875,"end":6056.046593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6056.36721875,"end":6068.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6060.2147187499995,"end":6061.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6068.5340937500005,"end":6068.669093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6068.669093750001,"end":6069.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6068.87159375,"end":6072.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6071.21721875,"end":6071.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6071.97659375,"end":6072.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6072.21284375,"end":6072.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6072.7528437500005,"end":6075.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6074.40659375,"end":6076.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6076.33034375,"end":6077.9334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6076.46534375,"end":6076.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6076.60034375,"end":6089.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6088.27784375,"end":6098.200343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6089.86409375,"end":6089.897843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6089.93159375,"end":6089.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6098.200343750001,"end":6098.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6098.40284375,"end":6100.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6100.90034375,"end":6102.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6103.51596875,"end":6105.220343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6106.6209687499995,"end":6107.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6108.7303437499995,"end":6108.747218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6108.747218750001,"end":6109.590968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6110.282843750001,"end":6111.6834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6111.9872187500005,"end":6117.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6117.977843750001,"end":6119.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6119.327843749999,"end":6121.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6121.74096875,"end":6133.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6133.401593750001,"end":6135.274718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6136.42221875,"end":6137.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6138.24471875,"end":6141.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6142.024718750001,"end":6142.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6143.610968750001,"end":6145.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6145.88909375,"end":6148.589093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6149.34846875,"end":6150.225968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6150.462218750001,"end":6152.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6152.53784375,"end":6154.444718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6154.866593750001,"end":6156.419093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6158.59596875,"end":6164.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6164.654093749999,"end":6174.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6175.13346875,"end":6180.179093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6179.95971875,"end":6180.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6180.128468750001,"end":6180.14534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6180.179093750001,"end":6182.1365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6182.72721875,"end":6187.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6188.16096875,"end":6189.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6189.84846875,"end":6190.405343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6190.97909375,"end":6191.333468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6191.333468750001,"end":6192.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6191.35034375,"end":6194.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6194.843468749999,"end":6197.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6195.06284375,"end":6197.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6197.30721875,"end":6197.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6197.50971875,"end":6204.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6197.6278437500005,"end":6197.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6204.19221875,"end":6209.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6209.72721875,"end":6216.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6216.747218750001,"end":6219.548468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6219.16034375,"end":6219.514718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6219.548468750001,"end":6222.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6219.885968750001,"end":6221.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6223.446593750001,"end":6224.897843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6226.46721875,"end":6226.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6226.56846875,"end":6226.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6226.70346875,"end":6227.142218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6228.39096875,"end":6228.407843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6228.407843750001,"end":6228.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6228.4247187500005,"end":6228.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6228.458468750001,"end":6229.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6229.89284375,"end":6241.485968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6241.536593750001,"end":6247.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6247.13909375,"end":6248.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6248.13471875,"end":6249.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6249.99096875,"end":6254.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6254.614718750001,"end":6259.778468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6260.892218750001,"end":6262.259093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6264.14909375,"end":6269.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6275.8603437500005,"end":6276.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6276.01221875,"end":6276.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6276.34971875,"end":6278.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6278.86409375,"end":6281.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6281.44596875,"end":6281.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6282.4247187500005,"end":6282.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6282.9647187499995,"end":6283.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6284.010968750001,"end":6284.567843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6285.63096875,"end":6287.099093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6292.448468750001,"end":6298.590968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6299.08034375,"end":6309.137843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6309.1884687500005,"end":6309.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6309.25596875,"end":6309.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6309.39096875,"end":6314.470343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6314.72346875,"end":6316.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6316.66409375,"end":6317.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6318.25034375,"end":6322.401593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6322.9247187500005,"end":6326.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6326.569718750001,"end":6345.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6345.80721875,"end":6348.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6348.405968749999,"end":6358.767218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6358.9022187499995,"end":6363.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6363.272843750001,"end":6396.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6397.09034375,"end":6411.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6411.2822187500005,"end":6425.001593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6425.74409375,"end":6456.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6457.14846875,"end":6468.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6469.534718750001,"end":6478.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6478.98471875,"end":6484.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6484.28346875,"end":6485.0428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6487.52346875,"end":6488.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6488.68784375,"end":6489.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6489.63284375,"end":6490.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6490.307843750001,"end":6492.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6493.5478437500005,"end":6494.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6494.69534375,"end":6496.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6496.298468750001,"end":6502.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6502.6434687500005,"end":6502.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6503.099093750001,"end":6504.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6505.64721875,"end":6510.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6510.54096875,"end":6512.8865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6512.92034375,"end":6516.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6516.7509687500005,"end":6517.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6517.03784375,"end":6579.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6517.24034375,"end":6517.5272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6517.5272187499995,"end":6517.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6580.08284375,"end":6592.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6593.009093750001,"end":6620.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6621.10596875,"end":6624.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6625.00409375,"end":6628.260968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6628.952843749999,"end":6640.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6640.98471875,"end":6642.790343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6642.874718749999,"end":6644.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6644.427218750001,"end":6650.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6650.95784375,"end":6651.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6651.66659375,"end":6654.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6653.2528437500005,"end":6668.153468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6667.107218749999,"end":6676.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6672.70971875,"end":6673.114718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6675.595343750001,"end":6687.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6686.3447187500005,"end":6688.3865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6688.3865937499995,"end":6696.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6697.954718750001,"end":6698.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6699.186593750001,"end":6702.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6702.089093750001,"end":6705.312218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6705.66659375,"end":6713.614718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6713.83409375,"end":6715.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6715.08284375,"end":6732.885968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6717.462218750001,"end":6717.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6722.423468750001,"end":6723.419093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6733.1053437499995,"end":6733.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6733.61159375,"end":6737.948468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6737.374718749999,"end":6746.993468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6746.35221875,"end":6749.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6749.35596875,"end":6763.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6753.62534375,"end":6753.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6764.3915937500005,"end":6766.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6767.530343750001,"end":6777.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6778.262843750001,"end":6779.427218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6780.01784375,"end":6811.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6811.50659375,"end":6817.817843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6818.22284375,"end":6823.4540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6823.639718750001,"end":6826.170968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6826.32284375,"end":6840.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6840.464093750001,"end":6842.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6842.59034375,"end":6861.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6848.850968750001,"end":6849.171593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6862.2665937500005,"end":6889.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6889.874093750001,"end":6914.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6914.1572187500005,"end":6924.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6916.9247187500005,"end":6917.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6923.74221875,"end":6933.0740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6933.05721875,"end":6945.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6941.59596875,"end":6941.9334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6944.7684687500005,"end":6951.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6951.130343750001,"end":6951.923468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6952.00784375,"end":6953.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6953.45909375,"end":6954.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6960.90096875,"end":6962.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6962.97659375,"end":6965.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6969.979718750001,"end":6976.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6977.759093750001,"end":6979.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6980.08784375,"end":6980.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6982.55159375,"end":6984.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6983.294093750001,"end":6984.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6984.795968750001,"end":6986.2303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6986.432843750001,"end":6987.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6996.929093750001,"end":6998.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6998.83596875,"end":7061.7459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7064.378468750001,"end":7070.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7071.14534375,"end":7075.954718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7076.1572187500005,"end":7084.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7084.257218750001,"end":7089.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7089.75846875,"end":7113.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7114.00784375,"end":7117.247843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7114.446593750001,"end":7114.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7114.46346875,"end":7114.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7115.897843750001,"end":7177.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7178.2509687500005,"end":7194.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7194.366593750001,"end":7194.602843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7194.974093750001,"end":7207.866593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7195.294718749999,"end":7195.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7202.702843750001,"end":7203.0740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7203.225968750001,"end":7203.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7203.24284375,"end":7203.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7208.22096875,"end":7211.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7208.69346875,"end":7209.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7211.49471875,"end":7273.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7275.5184687500005,"end":7286.520968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7286.520968750001,"end":7287.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7287.80346875,"end":7292.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7292.62971875,"end":7295.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7296.038468750001,"end":7307.429093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7309.08284375,"end":7310.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7311.0740937499995,"end":7315.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7314.9384687500005,"end":7344.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7344.0478437500005,"end":7346.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7346.849093750001,"end":7364.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7364.02784375,"end":7377.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7377.86534375,"end":7381.814093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7379.805968750001,"end":7380.936593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7381.66221875,"end":7382.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7382.6747187500005,"end":7383.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7383.56909375,"end":7388.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7389.1209687499995,"end":7400.342843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7400.849093750001,"end":7415.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7414.450343750001,"end":7421.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7417.622843749999,"end":7419.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7421.2509687500005,"end":7421.622218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7421.97659375,"end":7431.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7430.16096875,"end":7494.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7495.905968750001,"end":7498.774718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7497.30659375,"end":7497.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7498.70721875,"end":7499.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7499.095343750001,"end":7510.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7511.0428437499995,"end":7525.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7525.99409375,"end":7527.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7528.50846875,"end":7530.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7530.550343750001,"end":7532.895968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7533.689093750001,"end":7544.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7545.56909375,"end":7547.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7549.298468750001,"end":7550.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7550.20971875,"end":7557.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7557.16221875,"end":7558.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7558.073468750001,"end":7562.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7559.25471875,"end":7559.575343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7562.07284375,"end":7562.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7562.9334687499995,"end":7565.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7566.02159375,"end":7582.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7581.81659375,"end":7633.724093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7634.50034375,"end":7659.5428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7659.694718750001,"end":7661.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7662.9178437499995,"end":7663.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7663.50846875,"end":7663.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7676.620343750001,"end":7679.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7689.47909375,"end":7690.542218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7690.7615937499995,"end":7691.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7695.840968750001,"end":7696.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7699.94159375,"end":7702.776593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7702.067843750001,"end":7702.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7702.2197187500005,"end":7702.5740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7702.5740937499995,"end":7702.590968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7703.569718750001,"end":7721.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7721.5584687499995,"end":7723.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7723.56659375,"end":7724.005343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7724.1572187500005,"end":7725.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7724.88284375,"end":7725.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7725.94596875,"end":7726.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7726.04721875,"end":7726.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7726.485968750001,"end":7730.198468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7730.519093750001,"end":7732.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7732.493468750001,"end":7733.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7733.91096875,"end":7735.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7735.17659375,"end":7744.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7744.66034375,"end":7745.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7745.26784375,"end":7750.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7751.427218750001,"end":7766.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7766.68221875,"end":7770.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7770.95159375,"end":7771.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7771.154093749999,"end":7772.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7772.08221875,"end":7772.335343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7772.284718750001,"end":7782.274718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7778.73096875,"end":7778.798468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7782.274718750001,"end":7783.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7784.046593750001,"end":7789.294718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7789.530968750001,"end":7790.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7790.40846875,"end":7790.661593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7790.661593750001,"end":7797.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7791.70784375,"end":7792.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7795.217843750001,"end":7795.589093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7797.175343750001,"end":7800.280343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7800.4490937499995,"end":7802.288468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7802.288468750001,"end":7802.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7802.30534375,"end":7802.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7802.35596875,"end":7802.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7802.49096875,"end":7802.524718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7802.524718750001,"end":7802.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7802.5584687499995,"end":7810.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7810.08471875,"end":7813.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7810.10159375,"end":7811.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7813.965968750001,"end":7817.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7817.526593750001,"end":7817.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7817.847218750001,"end":7817.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7818.134093750001,"end":7826.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7827.06096875,"end":7828.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7827.7528437500005,"end":7829.052218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7829.052218750001,"end":7829.288468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7829.288468750001,"end":7829.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7829.32221875,"end":7829.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7829.4403437500005,"end":7829.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7829.50784375,"end":7829.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7829.54159375,"end":7829.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7829.67659375,"end":7829.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7829.69346875,"end":7829.760968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7829.760968750001,"end":7831.110968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7831.27971875,"end":7836.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7836.15659375,"end":7858.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7858.22909375,"end":7858.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7858.38096875,"end":7866.7509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7865.92409375,"end":7865.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7867.00409375,"end":7867.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7867.37534375,"end":7867.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7867.69596875,"end":7867.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7867.71284375,"end":7867.729718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7867.729718750001,"end":7867.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7867.74659375,"end":7868.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7868.03346875,"end":7869.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7869.99096875,"end":7871.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7871.03721875,"end":7872.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7872.184718750001,"end":7872.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7872.269093750001,"end":7872.319718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7872.67409375,"end":7875.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7875.39096875,"end":7879.120343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7879.120343750001,"end":7879.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7879.18784375,"end":7879.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7879.862843750001,"end":7888.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7888.9247187500005,"end":7889.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7889.12721875,"end":7900.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7900.956593750001,"end":7907.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7907.97659375,"end":7912.397843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7912.954718750001,"end":7914.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7914.57471875,"end":7922.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7922.286593750001,"end":7927.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7927.214093750001,"end":7927.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7927.51784375,"end":7930.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7930.50471875,"end":7931.382218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7931.6522187499995,"end":7936.529093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7936.680968750001,"end":7943.329718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7943.329718750001,"end":7943.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7943.58284375,"end":7969.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7969.030343750001,"end":7970.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7970.515343750001,"end":7971.510968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7970.54909375,"end":7974.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7974.497843749999,"end":7976.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7976.40471875,"end":7982.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7983.1209687499995,"end":7986.327218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7986.749093750001,"end":7988.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7988.993468750001,"end":7994.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7994.22471875,"end":8003.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8003.202218750001,"end":8005.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8005.868468750001,"end":8009.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8009.429093750001,"end":8011.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8010.71159375,"end":8010.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8012.432843750001,"end":8012.804093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8012.804093750001,"end":8012.989718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8012.989718750001,"end":8025.747218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8023.33409375,"end":8023.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8023.435343750001,"end":8023.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8023.536593750001,"end":8023.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8026.439093750001,"end":8033.7459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8030.0165937500005,"end":8034.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8034.420968750001,"end":8038.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8037.76221875,"end":8041.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8041.03596875,"end":8041.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8041.964093750001,"end":8042.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8042.03159375,"end":8042.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8042.97659375,"end":8043.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8043.0272187499995,"end":8046.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8043.98909375,"end":8044.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8046.840968750001,"end":8059.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8048.984093750001,"end":8049.186593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8055.413468750001,"end":8056.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8059.919093750001,"end":8071.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8071.7147187499995,"end":8072.710343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8073.182843750001,"end":8075.764718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8075.764718750001,"end":8075.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8075.88284375,"end":8075.950343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8075.950343750001,"end":8076.372218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8076.372218750001,"end":8076.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8076.49034375,"end":8076.692843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8076.692843750001,"end":8076.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8076.70971875,"end":8078.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8078.97096875,"end":8080.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8080.0340937500005,"end":8081.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8080.05096875,"end":8085.079718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8085.265343750001,"end":8085.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8085.687218750001,"end":8089.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8090.057843750001,"end":8090.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8091.036593750001,"end":8107.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8091.62721875,"end":8091.694718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8102.54534375,"end":8102.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8102.59596875,"end":8102.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8107.017218750001,"end":8108.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8108.78909375,"end":8109.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8110.64534375,"end":8111.995343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8111.995343750001,"end":8112.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8112.48471875,"end":8112.788468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8113.27784375,"end":8116.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8116.36596875,"end":8127.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8127.267218750001,"end":8138.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8128.296593750001,"end":8129.747843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8136.9872187500005,"end":8137.1053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8137.1053437499995,"end":8137.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8138.573468750001,"end":8144.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8144.294093750001,"end":8146.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8146.47096875,"end":8147.010968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8147.2303437499995,"end":8149.727843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8150.149718750001,"end":8152.107218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8152.27596875,"end":8153.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8154.25034375,"end":8157.270968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8157.270968750001,"end":8157.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8157.30471875,"end":8172.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8171.59784375,"end":8176.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8175.5634687500005,"end":8178.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8178.53346875,"end":8178.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8179.00596875,"end":8182.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8182.56659375,"end":8187.544718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8187.544718750001,"end":8200.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8200.84221875,"end":8203.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8203.980968750002,"end":8208.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8205.465968750003,"end":8205.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8208.891593750002,"end":8209.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8209.16159375,"end":8222.290343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8222.290343749999,"end":8225.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8226.69471875,"end":8260.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8231.723468750002,"end":8232.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8232.027218750001,"end":8232.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8236.094093750002,"end":8236.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8236.296593750001,"end":8236.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8236.347218750001,"end":8236.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8246.55659375,"end":8249.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8260.74846875,"end":8261.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8261.035343750002,"end":8267.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8267.852843749999,"end":8275.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8276.20596875,"end":8278.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8279.327843750001,"end":8279.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8279.867843750002,"end":8280.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8282.63534375,"end":8291.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8291.66346875,"end":8295.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8295.19034375,"end":8299.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8298.750968750002,"end":8304.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8303.121593750002,"end":8303.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8304.184718750003,"end":8316.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8316.26721875,"end":8316.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8316.570968750002,"end":8316.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8316.97596875,"end":8320.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8320.48596875,"end":8326.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8332.26471875,"end":8334.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8334.660968750002,"end":8335.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8336.80409375,"end":8338.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8339.149718750003,"end":8339.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8339.16659375,"end":8339.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8340.85409375,"end":8342.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8343.570968750002,"end":8345.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8345.07284375,"end":8345.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8346.625343750002,"end":8348.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8348.75159375,"end":8350.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8350.81034375,"end":8352.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8353.071593750003,"end":8355.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8355.77159375,"end":8356.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8357.543468750002,"end":8357.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8357.88096875,"end":8357.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8358.657218750002,"end":8359.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8359.26471875,"end":8359.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8360.31096875,"end":8360.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8361.25596875,"end":8362.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8362.437218750001,"end":8363.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8364.344093750002,"end":8364.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8365.47471875,"end":8366.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8367.044093750003,"end":8368.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8368.63034375,"end":8369.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8370.97596875,"end":8371.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8372.27534375,"end":8373.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8373.895343750002,"end":8374.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8374.941593750002,"end":8375.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8376.004718750002,"end":8377.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8377.962218750003,"end":8378.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8379.379718750002,"end":8381.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8381.60721875,"end":8381.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8382.19784375,"end":8382.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8383.429718750001,"end":8385.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8386.14659375,"end":8388.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8389.11659375,"end":8399.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8399.74784375,"end":8400.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8401.13159375,"end":8402.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8403.46034375,"end":8408.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8409.02909375,"end":8409.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8409.14721875,"end":8409.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8410.09221875,"end":8412.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8412.977843750003,"end":8412.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8413.21409375,"end":8414.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8416.36971875,"end":8418.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8419.20471875,"end":8420.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8421.43221875,"end":8422.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8422.934093750002,"end":8423.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8424.01409375,"end":8425.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8426.27534375,"end":8427.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8427.574718750002,"end":8428.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8428.671593750001,"end":8429.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8430.257843750001,"end":8431.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8432.265968750002,"end":8433.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8434.18971875,"end":8434.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8434.98284375,"end":8445.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8445.36096875,"end":8449.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8449.360343750002,"end":8464.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8461.274093750002,"end":8465.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8465.425343750001,"end":8476.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8476.64721875,"end":8485.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8486.35034375,"end":8487.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8487.312218750001,"end":8489.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8489.489093750002,"end":8491.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8491.969718750002,"end":8492.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8493.809093750002,"end":8494.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8494.703468750002,"end":8497.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8498.770343750002,"end":8499.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8499.867218750001,"end":8501.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8501.58846875,"end":8504.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8504.777843750002,"end":8506.212218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8506.49909375,"end":8508.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8509.45221875,"end":8516.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8517.113468750002,"end":8526.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8525.972843750002,"end":8526.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8527.37346875,"end":8528.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8527.62659375,"end":8529.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8530.52909375,"end":8533.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8533.718468750001,"end":8539.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8539.70909375,"end":8541.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8541.953468750002,"end":8546.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8547.99471875,"end":8552.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8550.120968750001,"end":8551.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8552.247218750003,"end":8554.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8555.234093750001,"end":8555.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8555.672843750002,"end":8557.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8560.195343750001,"end":8560.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8560.667843750001,"end":8563.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8560.684718750003,"end":8561.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8564.29596875,"end":8565.696593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8566.624718750001,"end":8576.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8577.47534375,"end":8577.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8577.964718750001,"end":8578.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8578.52159375,"end":8578.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8578.555343750002,"end":8578.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8579.68596875,"end":8585.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8585.777843750002,"end":8587.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8586.925343750001,"end":8587.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8588.140343750001,"end":8592.578468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8593.60784375,"end":8595.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8595.83534375,"end":8598.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8599.68284375,"end":8604.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8604.981593750003,"end":8606.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8607.394718750002,"end":8609.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8612.01846875,"end":8616.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8615.81534375,"end":8620.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8623.004093750002,"end":8639.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8640.402218750001,"end":8642.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8643.945968750002,"end":8645.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8646.12284375,"end":8647.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8647.675343750001,"end":8652.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8653.277843750002,"end":8654.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8654.813468750002,"end":8657.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8657.395343750002,"end":8658.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8659.36971875,"end":8661.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8663.43659375,"end":8678.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8678.640968750002,"end":8693.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8693.254718750002,"end":8695.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8695.58346875,"end":8696.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8697.254093750002,"end":8699.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8699.44784375,"end":8701.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8702.92409375,"end":8731.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8731.35846875,"end":8733.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8733.535343750002,"end":8741.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8740.31909375,"end":8743.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8743.440968750001,"end":8746.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8748.199718750002,"end":8752.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8752.11471875,"end":8752.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8752.165343750003,"end":8752.199093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8752.199093750001,"end":8752.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8752.722218750001,"end":8769.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8769.495968750001,"end":8779.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8779.637843750003,"end":8781.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8783.97471875,"end":8784.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8784.852218750002,"end":8786.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8786.70846875,"end":8787.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8787.434093750002,"end":8789.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8789.40846875,"end":8790.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8792.05784375,"end":8793.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8794.504718750002,"end":8796.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8796.664718750002,"end":8797.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8798.082218750002,"end":8798.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8798.352218750002,"end":8799.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8799.989093750002,"end":8800.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8801.204093750002,"end":8803.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8804.12346875,"end":8806.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8807.312843750002,"end":8814.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8815.39596875,"end":8817.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8817.910343750002,"end":8819.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8820.137843750003,"end":8821.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8822.331593750001,"end":8824.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8824.37346875,"end":8829.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8829.030968750001,"end":8834.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8834.02596875,"end":8836.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8834.835968750001,"end":8835.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8835.39284375,"end":8835.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8835.49409375,"end":8836.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8837.19846875,"end":8837.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8837.45159375,"end":8838.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8838.93659375,"end":8840.337218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8841.41721875,"end":8843.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8843.425343750001,"end":8845.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8845.51784375,"end":8848.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8849.26409375,"end":8853.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8853.870968750001,"end":8860.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8860.43534375,"end":8864.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8865.109718750002,"end":8868.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8868.83909375,"end":8874.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8874.509093750003,"end":8878.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8878.457843750002,"end":8880.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8880.22971875,"end":8880.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8880.58409375,"end":8882.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8883.11534375,"end":8883.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8884.60034375,"end":8885.258468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8885.579093750002,"end":8887.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8887.992218750001,"end":8888.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8889.19034375,"end":8891.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8892.362843750001,"end":8894.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8894.65784375,"end":8895.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8896.328468750002,"end":8897.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8898.25221875,"end":8898.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8899.51784375,"end":8900.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8901.20534375,"end":8902.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8902.21784375,"end":8902.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8903.11221875,"end":8903.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8904.968468750001,"end":8905.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8905.710968750001,"end":8906.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8907.398468750001,"end":8908.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8909.524718750003,"end":8909.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8910.402218750001,"end":8912.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8912.612843750001,"end":8913.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8913.945968750002,"end":8915.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8915.903468750003,"end":8916.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8916.679718750001,"end":8917.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8918.012843750003,"end":8919.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8919.88596875,"end":8920.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8921.691593750002,"end":8923.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8923.83471875,"end":8925.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8926.534718750001,"end":8927.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8927.817218750002,"end":8929.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8929.42034375,"end":8930.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8931.00659375,"end":8931.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8932.137218750002,"end":8932.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8932.89659375,"end":8934.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8934.668468750002,"end":8936.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8936.96346875,"end":8937.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8937.90846875,"end":8939.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8940.01784375,"end":8942.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8942.582843750002,"end":8944.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8943.780968750001,"end":8944.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8944.962218750003,"end":8944.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8945.367218750001,"end":8945.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8946.49784375,"end":8952.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8952.606593750003,"end":8956.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8957.11221875,"end":8962.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8962.613468750002,"end":8963.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8963.153468750003,"end":8964.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8965.33034375,"end":8967.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8967.69284375,"end":8969.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8969.633468750002,"end":8971.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8972.08034375,"end":8973.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8973.59909375,"end":8974.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8975.15159375,"end":8975.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8976.19784375,"end":8977.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8977.159718750001,"end":8978.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8978.796593750001,"end":8979.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8979.437843750002,"end":8981.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8982.00284375,"end":8984.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8985.27659375,"end":8986.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8988.01034375,"end":8988.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8989.07346875,"end":8990.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8990.980343750001,"end":8991.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8991.75659375,"end":8992.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8992.785968750002,"end":8993.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8994.422843750002,"end":8996.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8998.641593750002,"end":8999.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8999.434718750003,"end":8999.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9001.004093750002,"end":9002.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9005.45909375,"end":9007.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9006.77534375,"end":9009.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9010.20096875,"end":9012.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9013.289093750001,"end":9014.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9014.68971875,"end":9016.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9018.368468750003,"end":9019.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9019.48221875,"end":9019.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9021.28784375,"end":9022.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9022.637843750003,"end":9024.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9024.359093750001,"end":9028.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9028.425968750002,"end":9043.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9036.812843750002,"end":9036.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9036.914093750001,"end":9036.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9036.981593750003,"end":9036.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9043.96784375,"end":9046.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9046.684718750003,"end":9047.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9048.726593750001,"end":9051.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9052.40534375,"end":9056.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9057.957218750002,"end":9059.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9059.72909375,"end":9065.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9060.40409375,"end":9061.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9065.85471875,"end":9067.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9067.52534375,"end":9070.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9070.52909375,"end":9072.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9072.68909375,"end":9074.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9074.69721875,"end":9076.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9076.33409375,"end":9078.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9078.71346875,"end":9080.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9080.18159375,"end":9085.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9084.67034375,"end":9086.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9085.699718750002,"end":9086.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9087.488468750002,"end":9091.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9092.58471875,"end":9093.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9094.187843750002,"end":9097.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9097.410968750002,"end":9098.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9098.524718750003,"end":9101.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9101.79846875,"end":9106.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9106.43909375,"end":9112.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9112.31159375,"end":9115.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9115.973468750002,"end":9117.019718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9117.019718750002,"end":9117.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9118.04909375,"end":9119.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9118.774718750003,"end":9119.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9119.348468750002,"end":9119.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9119.63534375,"end":9120.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9120.58034375,"end":9121.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9123.094718750002,"end":9127.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9133.219718750002,"end":9136.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9137.117843750002,"end":9138.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9140.18909375,"end":9141.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9143.699093750001,"end":9144.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9144.390968750002,"end":9145.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9146.09534375,"end":9146.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9147.512843750003,"end":9149.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9149.95971875,"end":9156.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9157.148468750001,"end":9163.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9163.493468750003,"end":9182.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9182.832218750002,"end":9187.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9188.40096875,"end":9199.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9199.79159375,"end":9203.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9204.094718750002,"end":9213.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9214.43909375,"end":9248.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9248.813468750002,"end":9250.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9251.14221875,"end":9252.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9252.35721875,"end":9255.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9255.512843750003,"end":9262.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9262.617218750001,"end":9264.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9264.65909375,"end":9266.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9268.13534375,"end":9288.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9268.472843750002,"end":9268.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9274.649093750002,"end":9275.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9275.23971875,"end":9275.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9275.25659375,"end":9275.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9288.503468750001,"end":9290.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9291.16971875,"end":9294.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9295.000343750002,"end":9310.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9311.301593750002,"end":9312.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9312.48284375,"end":9315.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9316.92096875,"end":9319.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9320.532218750002,"end":9324.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9324.362843750001,"end":9328.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9328.480343750001,"end":9330.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9330.910343750002,"end":9333.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9333.40784375,"end":9335.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9336.293468750002,"end":9338.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9339.11159375,"end":9342.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9342.33471875,"end":9344.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9345.254093750002,"end":9348.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9348.629093750002,"end":9351.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9351.97034375,"end":9356.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9356.62784375,"end":9357.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9357.94409375,"end":9358.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9358.230968750002,"end":9362.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9363.293468750002,"end":9365.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9365.58846875,"end":9370.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9370.515968750002,"end":9371.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9371.29221875,"end":9371.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9372.59159375,"end":9378.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9378.66659375,"end":9382.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9380.57346875,"end":9381.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9383.56034375,"end":9385.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9385.230968750002,"end":9411.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9411.94409375,"end":9420.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9421.039718750002,"end":9425.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9425.91659375,"end":9426.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9426.70971875,"end":9426.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9429.03846875,"end":9433.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9433.45971875,"end":9437.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9437.695343750001,"end":9442.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9442.184093750002,"end":9442.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9442.656593750002,"end":9444.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9444.512843750003,"end":9445.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9446.200343750003,"end":9447.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9448.360343750002,"end":9454.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9454.97534375,"end":9455.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9457.23659375,"end":9469.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9469.504718750002,"end":9470.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9470.56784375,"end":9470.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9471.293468750002,"end":9477.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9477.874718750001,"end":9487.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9487.13909375,"end":9488.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9489.45096875,"end":9494.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9495.15471875,"end":9495.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9496.015343750001,"end":9501.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9501.499718750001,"end":9505.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9505.54971875,"end":9511.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9511.91159375,"end":9512.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9513.19409375,"end":9514.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9514.122218750003,"end":9514.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9514.206593750001,"end":9515.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9514.544093750003,"end":9519.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9519.74159375,"end":9527.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9528.17909375,"end":9560.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9561.08534375,"end":9563.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9563.515343750001,"end":9580.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9580.609718750002,"end":9583.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9583.64721875,"end":9584.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9584.980343750001,"end":9585.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9586.38096875,"end":9590.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9591.055343750002,"end":9592.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9592.962218750003,"end":9593.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9593.02971875,"end":9593.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9593.046593750001,"end":9593.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9593.063468750002,"end":9593.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9593.08034375,"end":9593.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9593.114093750002,"end":9593.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9593.215343750002,"end":9594.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9593.805968750003,"end":9597.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9597.94034375,"end":9610.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9599.83034375,"end":9600.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9611.035343750002,"end":9612.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9612.452843750001,"end":9616.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9616.671593750001,"end":9619.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9619.72596875,"end":9623.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9623.13471875,"end":9625.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9625.969718750002,"end":9639.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9639.60471875,"end":9641.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9641.76471875,"end":9642.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9642.625343750002,"end":9643.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9643.53659375,"end":9645.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9647.14784375,"end":9647.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9649.105343750001,"end":9653.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9663.31409375,"end":9666.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9669.473468750002,"end":9670.199093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9672.88221875,"end":9675.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9674.114093750002,"end":9674.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9674.519093750001,"end":9674.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9675.734093750001,"end":9680.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9680.864093750002,"end":9685.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9685.30221875,"end":9685.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9686.601593750001,"end":9689.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9689.824718750002,"end":9692.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9691.765343750001,"end":9692.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9692.457218750002,"end":9693.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9693.60471875,"end":9693.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9693.925343750001,"end":9693.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9693.95909375,"end":9694.094093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9694.094093750002,"end":9694.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9694.16159375,"end":9694.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9694.515968750002,"end":9696.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9694.617218750001,"end":9698.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9696.55784375,"end":9698.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9699.02159375,"end":9712.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9714.05721875,"end":9716.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9714.10784375,"end":9714.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9715.609718750002,"end":9716.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9716.706593750001,"end":9746.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9722.089718750001,"end":9722.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9722.49471875,"end":9722.511593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9730.66221875,"end":9730.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9730.72971875,"end":9730.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9730.88159375,"end":9730.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9734.543468750002,"end":9734.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9739.454093750002,"end":9739.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9746.01846875,"end":9749.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9749.54534375,"end":9751.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9751.40159375,"end":9755.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9755.940968750001,"end":9759.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9759.50159375,"end":9762.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9762.67409375,"end":9768.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9769.019093750001,"end":9804.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9804.895343750002,"end":9815.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9815.847218750001,"end":9823.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9824.09909375,"end":9835.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9835.30409375,"end":9835.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9835.70909375,"end":9836.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9836.02971875,"end":9858.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9841.71659375,"end":9842.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9842.62784375,"end":9843.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9846.32346875,"end":9846.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9853.461593750002,"end":9853.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9855.73971875,"end":9855.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9857.950343750003,"end":9858.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9859.38471875,"end":9861.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9860.582843750002,"end":9866.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9867.214718750001,"end":9870.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9870.977843750003,"end":9871.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9871.72034375,"end":9876.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9871.73721875,"end":9872.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9873.77909375,"end":9886.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9886.60409375,"end":9886.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9886.941593750002,"end":9890.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9890.97471875,"end":9895.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9894.34971875,"end":9894.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9896.10471875,"end":9899.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9899.83409375,"end":9906.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9906.60096875,"end":9915.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9915.257843750001,"end":9915.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9915.51096875,"end":9915.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9915.780968750001,"end":9915.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9916.000343750002,"end":9916.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9916.01721875,"end":9916.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9916.03409375,"end":9920.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9921.19784375,"end":9922.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9922.868468750003,"end":9926.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9924.62346875,"end":9924.960968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9926.10846875,"end":9926.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9926.749718750001,"end":9937.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9929.93909375,"end":9930.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9930.36096875,"end":9930.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9930.37784375,"end":9930.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9935.05221875,"end":9936.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9937.80284375,"end":9949.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9945.56534375,"end":9947.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9950.05409375,"end":9954.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9954.188468750002,"end":9956.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9955.04909375,"end":9967.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9967.85721875,"end":9972.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9972.46409375,"end":9976.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9976.446593750003,"end":9979.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9980.074718750002,"end":9981.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9981.42471875,"end":9983.179718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9983.51721875,"end":10007.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9985.778468750003,"end":9985.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9985.96409375,"end":9986.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10001.219093750002,"end":10001.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10002.265343750001,"end":10004.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10005.437843750002,"end":10010.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10009.16721875,"end":10021.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10011.141593750002,"end":10011.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10016.32221875,"end":10016.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10016.355968750002,"end":10016.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10021.620968750001,"end":10022.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10022.954093750002,"end":10026.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10027.155968750001,"end":10030.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10029.83909375,"end":10031.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10031.492843750002,"end":10036.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10037.280968750001,"end":10039.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10040.11596875,"end":10044.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10045.33034375,"end":10047.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10048.06409375,"end":10066.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10066.20471875,"end":10066.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10066.761593750001,"end":10067.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10067.031593750002,"end":10067.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10067.84159375,"end":10067.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10067.89221875,"end":10067.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10067.976593750001,"end":10068.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10068.027218750001,"end":10083.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10077.207218750002,"end":10080.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10083.484718750002,"end":10083.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10084.36221875,"end":10084.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10084.379093750002,"end":10092.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10092.968468750001,"end":10094.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10094.723468750002,"end":10095.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10095.921593750001,"end":10098.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10099.12784375,"end":10107.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10107.784718750001,"end":10108.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10108.274093750002,"end":10110.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10110.805343750002,"end":10114.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10115.395343750002,"end":10116.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10117.25159375,"end":10120.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10121.04846875,"end":10130.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10131.29159375,"end":10143.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10133.62034375,"end":10134.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10137.585968750001,"end":10138.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10138.024718750003,"end":10138.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10138.598468750002,"end":10138.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10143.711593750002,"end":10147.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10147.12034375,"end":10149.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10147.356593750003,"end":10148.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10150.292843750001,"end":10161.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10161.582218750002,"end":10164.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10165.058468750001,"end":10165.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10165.075343750003,"end":10179.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10174.99784375,"end":10175.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10175.04846875,"end":10175.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10175.200343750003,"end":10175.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10180.262843750003,"end":10187.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10187.99159375,"end":10191.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10192.007843750001,"end":10194.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10192.46346875,"end":10204.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10204.86659375,"end":10205.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10205.71034375,"end":10210.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10208.34284375,"end":10211.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10211.211593750002,"end":10216.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10214.87346875,"end":10215.750968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10216.476593750001,"end":10216.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10216.645343750002,"end":10216.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10216.71284375,"end":10216.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10216.965968750003,"end":10231.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10232.28846875,"end":10233.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10233.60471875,"end":10234.144718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10236.473468750002,"end":10263.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10263.034718750001,"end":10263.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10264.266593750002,"end":10264.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10264.28346875,"end":10290.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10280.36534375,"end":10280.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10280.38221875,"end":10281.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10287.925343750001,"end":10288.212218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10290.91221875,"end":10298.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10298.20221875,"end":10302.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10302.859718750002,"end":10306.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10306.20096875,"end":10313.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10308.765968750002,"end":10310.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10312.02284375,"end":10313.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10313.727218750002,"end":10314.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10313.777843750002,"end":10313.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10313.81159375,"end":10318.890968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10316.089718750001,"end":10316.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10316.12346875,"end":10316.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10316.477843750003,"end":10317.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10317.92909375,"end":10322.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10334.331593750001,"end":10336.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10342.043468750002,"end":10389.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10389.74909375,"end":10389.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10390.609718750002,"end":10394.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10394.609093750001,"end":10397.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10397.950343750003,"end":10399.992218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10400.464718750001,"end":10418.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10419.06096875,"end":10424.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10424.140343750001,"end":10424.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10424.157218750002,"end":10424.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10424.22471875,"end":10424.258468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10424.29221875,"end":10429.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10429.06784375,"end":10445.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10445.63909375,"end":10461.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10461.99096875,"end":10479.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10479.59159375,"end":10481.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10481.29596875,"end":10482.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10481.44784375,"end":10488.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10488.855968750002,"end":10493.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10494.120968750001,"end":10496.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10496.56784375,"end":10497.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10496.702843750001,"end":10497.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10497.141593750002,"end":10497.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10497.563468750002,"end":10497.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10498.05284375,"end":10555.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10555.74846875,"end":10560.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10560.777218750001,"end":10562.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10562.785343750002,"end":10565.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10565.789093750001,"end":10571.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10571.10471875,"end":10582.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10582.410968750002,"end":10585.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10582.984718750002,"end":10584.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10585.617218750001,"end":10590.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10590.44346875,"end":10597.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10597.31159375,"end":10601.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10601.969093750002,"end":10613.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10613.055968750003,"end":10630.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10630.89284375,"end":10640.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10641.102218750002,"end":10657.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10657.11659375,"end":10684.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10685.11221875,"end":10688.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10688.875343750002,"end":10694.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10694.933468750001,"end":10697.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10697.75159375,"end":10706.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10706.50971875,"end":10709.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10710.036593750003,"end":10710.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10710.981593750003,"end":10711.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10711.487843750001,"end":10742.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10743.499718750001,"end":10761.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10761.809093750002,"end":10776.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10777.637843750003,"end":10778.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10779.578468750002,"end":10795.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10795.609718750002,"end":10796.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10796.75721875,"end":10819.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10820.16284375,"end":10837.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10837.03784375,"end":10841.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10840.63221875,"end":10858.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10858.469093750002,"end":10880.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10863.683468750001,"end":10863.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10872.880343750003,"end":10873.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10880.879093750002,"end":10882.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10881.047843750002,"end":10881.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10882.785968750002,"end":10891.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10891.594718750002,"end":10894.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10893.07971875,"end":10900.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10900.57221875,"end":10903.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10903.457843750002,"end":10906.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10906.79909375,"end":10908.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10908.38534375,"end":10909.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10909.97159375,"end":10911.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10911.06846875,"end":10917.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10917.210968750001,"end":10922.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10922.99909375,"end":10928.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10928.26409375,"end":10931.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10931.099093750003,"end":10947.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10947.231593750003,"end":10955.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10947.46784375,"end":10948.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10953.89721875,"end":10962.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10962.23346875,"end":10966.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10965.844718750002,"end":10975.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10975.007843750001,"end":10975.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10975.024718750003,"end":10991.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10975.46346875,"end":10978.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10996.118468750003,"end":10998.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11004.555968750003,"end":11013.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11005.399718750003,"end":11005.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11014.562843750002,"end":11036.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11019.97971875,"end":11020.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11034.644093750001,"end":11034.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11034.69471875,"end":11034.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11036.73659375,"end":11049.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11049.49409375,"end":11051.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11051.856593750003,"end":11069.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11062.25159375,"end":11063.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11063.449718750002,"end":11063.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11064.25971875,"end":11064.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11064.31034375,"end":11065.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11068.343468750001,"end":11070.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11069.085968750001,"end":11069.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11069.187218750001,"end":11069.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11070.739718750003,"end":11070.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11070.874718750001,"end":11102.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11083.09221875,"end":11083.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11084.99909375,"end":11085.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11085.87659375,"end":11086.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11088.42471875,"end":11089.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11089.74096875,"end":11090.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11090.53409375,"end":11090.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11094.85409375,"end":11096.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11102.02596875,"end":11102.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11102.07659375,"end":11102.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11102.464718750001,"end":11102.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11102.97096875,"end":11116.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11116.707218750002,"end":11117.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11117.16284375,"end":11117.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11117.68596875,"end":11117.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11117.73659375,"end":11117.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11117.93909375,"end":11117.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11117.95596875,"end":11118.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11118.023468750001,"end":11122.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11120.132843750001,"end":11120.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11122.96784375,"end":11134.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11131.13534375,"end":11132.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11134.797218750002,"end":11140.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11138.10471875,"end":11139.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11140.180343750002,"end":11146.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11140.230968750002,"end":11140.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11140.484093750001,"end":11142.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11143.707218750002,"end":11144.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11146.609718750002,"end":11148.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11148.53346875,"end":11148.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11148.550343750001,"end":11149.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11149.96784375,"end":11158.118468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11155.620968750001,"end":11156.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11158.03409375,"end":11160.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11160.008468750002,"end":11166.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11167.011593750001,"end":11167.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11167.079093750002,"end":11168.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11169.390968750002,"end":11178.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11178.11534375,"end":11178.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11178.53721875,"end":11178.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11178.621593750002,"end":11183.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11182.77284375,"end":11182.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11182.97534375,"end":11183.430968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11184.17346875,"end":11197.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11198.331593750001,"end":11198.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11198.36534375,"end":11198.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11198.972843750002,"end":11201.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11201.605343750001,"end":11202.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11202.398468750001,"end":11202.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11202.65159375,"end":11202.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11202.668468750002,"end":11202.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11202.73596875,"end":11202.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11203.984718750002,"end":11204.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11204.609093750001,"end":11205.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11205.75659375,"end":11213.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11213.485343750002,"end":11220.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11219.10471875,"end":11219.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11222.665343750003,"end":11225.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11225.078468750002,"end":11229.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11229.31409375,"end":11231.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11231.42346875,"end":11231.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11231.44034375,"end":11231.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11231.69346875,"end":11232.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11231.879093750002,"end":11231.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11232.149093750002,"end":11232.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11232.28409375,"end":11232.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11232.419093750003,"end":11232.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11232.97596875,"end":11242.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11242.324718750002,"end":11272.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11272.26096875,"end":11278.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11278.94346875,"end":11279.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11279.90534375,"end":11284.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11285.54159375,"end":11291.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11288.59596875,"end":11289.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11290.148468750001,"end":11290.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11291.042843750001,"end":11291.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11291.582843750002,"end":11291.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11291.59971875,"end":11292.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11291.61659375,"end":11293.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11293.50659375,"end":11304.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11308.17096875,"end":11334.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11337.094718750002,"end":11346.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11363.74034375,"end":11363.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11363.95971875,"end":11364.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11364.094718750002,"end":11365.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11380.868468750003,"end":11381.62784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":1433.749,"end":1446.142,"text":"好 是不是請決定秘書報告出席的委員人數報告委員會出席委員與組法定人數好 我們宣布現在開始開會請議事人員宣讀上次的會議紀錄"},{"start":1448.188,"end":1466.895,"text":"立法院第十一屆第五會期財政委員會第三次權力委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十五年三月十八日星期三九時至十二時二十四分地點群憲樓九樓大禮堂出席委員林德福等十四人列席委員鍾嘉斌等九人列席官員金融監督管理委員會主委彭金榮"},{"start":1467.695,"end":1492.975,"text":"所屬機關首長及中央存保公司監管相關機構有關資財團法人各公司等董事長總經理主席吳昭吉委員秉瑞報告事項一宣讀上次會議事錄決定議事錄確定二邀請金管會金融監督管理委員彭主任委員金融率所屬機關首長及中央存保保險股份有限公司監管相關機構有關資財團法人台灣證券交易所股份有限公司"},{"start":1494.576,"end":1515.31,"text":"臺灣期貨交易所股份有限公司、臺灣集中保管結算所股份有限公司等董事長、總經理列席業務報告並備諮詢。經金管會主委彭金龍提出報告後,藉由委員林德福等18人提出諮詢。均經金管會主委彭金龍、證交所董事長林修敏、櫃買中心董事長簡立中及相關人員予以答覆。"},{"start":1516.531,"end":1530.841,"text":"決定一 報告及詢答完畢二 委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資訊請金管會於一周內以書面答覆委員力邀請期限者從期鎖定三 委員楊瓊瑜所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報並請金管會以書面答覆宣讀完畢"},{"start":1533.763,"end":1551.869,"text":"好的 請問在現場委員對於議事物有沒有意見沒有 好 沒有的話那我們就議事物確定好 那我們請議事人員宣讀今日的議程討論事項 審查本院台灣民眾黨黨團委員林思敏的二十一人分別擬具虛擬資產服務法草案等兩案 宣讀完畢好的 那我們現在就開始針對於"},{"start":1561.021,"end":1586.075,"text":"好 我們先介紹在現場的委員第一位 先介紹我們財務會的吳秉瑞 吳昭緯以及在現場今天有提案的林思敏 林委員謝謝 接下來我們在左邊的官員有我們金管會的主委彭主委 彭金榮 彭主委"},{"start":1589.195,"end":1592.556,"text":"我們金融市場發展及創新處的林處長我們銀行局的童局長我們證據局的高局長我們保險局的王局長我們檢查局的賴局長我們證交所的林董事長歡迎董事長總經理"},{"start":1619.448,"end":1646.522,"text":"林总经理 欢迎还有我们购买中心的简董事长 欢迎总经理 陈总经理 谢谢 欢迎还有我们央行业务局的谢局长欢迎谢局长我们外汇局的蔡局长欢迎蔡局长我们国库署的李组长"},{"start":1650.154,"end":1673.824,"text":"副稅主的苏副组长所得税主的胡副组长我们法务部谣调部的调查部的检察官杨检察官好以及我们非常资深才贵的林德福林委员"},{"start":1677.469,"end":1694.902,"text":"好謝謝介紹完我們在現場的所有的朋友那我們接下來就開始我們今天會議安排審查虛擬資產服務法等兩岸我們先請提案委員做提案的說明第一位是不是先請林思敏委員做提案說明三分鐘時間三分鐘"},{"start":1702.386,"end":1721.683,"text":"好 謝謝主席首先關於本法的立法背景與必要性提出說明近年來虛擬資產快速發展以由早期單純的支付工具逐步轉型進去投資金融商品及跨境交易功能的新型態資產依照國際貨幣基金統計全球虛擬資產市場的規模曾經達到2.5兆美元以上"},{"start":1730.41,"end":1747.743,"text":"即使歷經市場的重大波動,仍維持逾1億1兆美元的規模,顯示虛擬資產已成為不可忽視的全球金融體系的一環。我國市場意義同步成長,相關交易規模與投資人數逐年攀升,"},{"start":1748.544,"end":1769.039,"text":"甚至於我們重大的國際事件 譬如說交易所的倒閉中我們顯示我國投資人的參與程度均極高潛在的風險與制度缺口亦日益彰顯然而我國目前對於虛擬資產的監理仍以零散的規範為主缺乏專法的一個體系"},{"start":1770.44,"end":1796.191,"text":"導致業者進入門檻與監理的標準不明投資人保護機制不足市場資訊透明度不夠跨境與新型態如DEFI難以有效管理因此為健全市場的發展提升金融監理的完整性保障交易人的安全並促進金融科技創新使有制定專法的必要"},{"start":1797.051,"end":1818.248,"text":"本席的提案是為建立我國虛擬資產的監理制度以達成下列的目標第一 建立虛擬資產市場的秩序與監理架構第二 強化虛擬資產服務業者的管理與責任第三 保障投資人及交易人的權益第四 提升透明度與資訊的揭露"},{"start":1823.112,"end":1845.502,"text":"第五 促进金融科技创新与国际的接轨总计本席的提案有七个章节总计53条敬请各位委员支持以上谢谢谢谢林思敏委员的提案说明现在先请金管会的彭主委回应我们委员的提案内容"},{"start":1851.84,"end":1880.842,"text":"主席 各位委員 各位媒體先進 大家早今天貴委員會審查台灣民眾黨團林委員 施民等21人分別擬聚資虛擬資產服務法草案曾貴委員會邀請提出報告以下僅就金管會意見進行說明 進行指教近年來世界各國相繼將虛擬資產服務商及穩定幣納入監理架構如歐盟MICA 韓國虛擬資產用戶保護法日本支付服務法等"},{"start":1881.977,"end":1906.486,"text":"我國專法草案已於114年6月27日呈報行政院行政院已完成審查,待依行政程序完成送大院審議專法重點,依強化VASP的監理,明確定義VASP的類型、範圍經營的財務、業務、聘用人員資格、內部控制、集合制度、資安制度與營運持續政策及財報、申報等規範"},{"start":1910.247,"end":1931.668,"text":"規範穩定幣發行及管理事前需取得金管會及央行許可境外發行穩定幣若與我國VASP交易也需經金管會同意必須維持十足準備資產定期查核資訊揭露確保運作透明防止市場不公正行為明定不得有虛偽隱匿操縱價格等不公正行為並設有嚴格刑責與罰金規定"},{"start":1935.049,"end":1954.936,"text":"推動專法可強化交易人權益之保障提升台灣國際競爭力對我國虛擬資產發展健全發展有重大注意有關民眾黨版本及領委員版本與行政院目前完成審查版本基本上方向一致僅就部分差異內容說明如下"},{"start":1955.896,"end":1970.794,"text":"有關主管機關因參酌創新實驗辦理情形每年於年度終了三個月內向立法院提出檢討報告部分現行創新實驗條例已有類似規定原建議可回歸前開條例辦理"},{"start":1973.322,"end":1991.791,"text":"另有關開放虛擬資產衍生性商品服務及其他配套條文部分對VASP之監理因採循序漸進、審慎之態度推動現行VASP專法第六條以明定包括其他主管機關核定之虛擬資產服務之彈性考慮虛擬資產衍生性商品風險較高未來將視我國市場狀況"},{"start":1997.854,"end":2002.84,"text":"業者專業能力 尊法程度及國際監理趨勢適時研議開放有關明訂給予現行從業人員符合資格條件是緩衝其部分"},{"start":2010.205,"end":2033.096,"text":"人員資格性質緩衝期已於授權執法中訂定未來於訂定授權執法時將與業者充分溝通討論令明訂VASP應建立必流分析專責人員部分考量VASP業務性質及內容各有不同令新增必流分析人員系屬人員管理之技術性及細節性事項可於執法中訂定"},{"start":2034.136,"end":2053.452,"text":"另有關明訂虛擬資產服務商與客戶簽訂契約因進行商品適合度分析、風險揭露、風險預告及違反之契約效力部分未來金管會可依《金融消費者保護法》第三條第一項規定公告違該法所定之金融服務業是可回歸《金融消費者保護法》辦理為宜"},{"start":2054.193,"end":2071.413,"text":"另外條文中為民定非經主管機關同意之虛擬資產虛擬資產交易商平台不得提供服務部分以及為民列穩定幣發行因應規定申報發行資料建議納入令民定設置虛擬資產基金清償客戶損失部分"},{"start":2072.925,"end":2088.396,"text":"現行我國金融安全網制度的設計主要是維護金融系統及資本市場的穩定如存款保險證券投資人及期貨交易人保護基金亦有透過業者自行管理及共同提撥資金建立基金的方式"},{"start":2089.336,"end":2112.234,"text":"觀察國際虛擬市場發展尚無類似安全網設計之前例多採自主提撥用戶資產安全基金或採資產隔離制度又VASP類型差異甚大已有不同之考量令虛擬資產交易價格波動劇烈當比照金融或資本市場建立金融安全網不僅執行困難如設計不當、易生又發盜的風險之疑慮"},{"start":2114.696,"end":2136.391,"text":"因此對於設置虛擬資產基金的必要性投資性已以審慎明定主管機關定期邀同業工會及學者專家討論各項辦法或由同業工會提出修正建議部分考量現行其他法律尚無類似規定如增訂使條文屬法制上之重大變革"},{"start":2137.659,"end":2145.75,"text":"令明定因納管關鍵意見領袖KOL部分可於金融消費者保護法授權執法中加以規範"},{"start":2147.154,"end":2173.035,"text":"為力強化對VASP之管理及推動穩定幣之發行金管會已提報虛擬資產服務法草案經行政院審查完成並納入優先法案預計於本會期報送大願未來立法院通過實施後將有助於保障交易人權以及發展我國虛擬資產市場培育相關人才懇請各位委員全力支持行政院版本以上報告敬請各位委員指教謝謝"},{"start":2178.611,"end":2201.716,"text":"謝謝主委感謝主委對於兩個黨團以及林思明委員所做的提案做的回覆接下來我們開始做詢答每位出席委員發言時間八分鐘必要時可以延長兩分鐘列席委員發言時間是五分鐘我們今天十點截止發言登記現在依登記的順序請登記的第一位委員林德福委員質詢"},{"start":2218.275,"end":2229.881,"text":"謝謝主席這個彭主委還有所有列席的相關的這些官員還有我們各位同仁是不是首先我們來請彭主委請管會請彭主委"},{"start":2238.434,"end":2256.524,"text":"國外曾經有虛擬資產借貸的平台透過高息賬戶的吸金最後資不抵債申請破產造成投資人的損失有法律專家建議說虛擬資產服務法草案"},{"start":2262.401,"end":2285.448,"text":"明文的來排除銀行法第29條之一的適用那以避免那個虛擬資產發行人與服務商不必要的困擾那我請問金管會依目前我們整個金管會送行政院審查的這個虛擬資產服務法草案版本訂定虛擬資產借貸商"},{"start":2288.189,"end":2303.315,"text":"是否就算明文規定排除銀行法第29條之一的規範針對虛擬資產借貸利率主管機關是否有這個會定定指引或干預你有什麼看法"},{"start":2303.995,"end":2332.486,"text":"謝謝委員關心 剛剛確實沒有錯這樣比如說過去在我們虛擬資產服務商沒有納管的時代那對於這些所謂的上面一些交易行為常發生很多弊端我想各位都在這個都看到過去很多事件這也是為什麼各國現在要加強管理在我們現在的這個院版的草案裡面對於各種VASP的形態裡面確實有一個借貸商這借貸商呢我們會有個專門的執法針對這部分包括他"},{"start":2333.166,"end":2353.491,"text":"未來可能應該所有的營業規範還有它相關的一些這些運作的模式都會比較用一個審慎嚴格的態度來看待這個畢竟這個借貸商本質上有槓桿以及所謂信用擴張的效果所以這部分我們會更嚴謹的態度來看待最重要就是因為你居然要綠"},{"start":2354.831,"end":2372.894,"text":"這要做就是一定要嚴謹本席是贊同虛擬資產納入專法來管理一來讓市場有一定規範可以遵循二來民眾使用虛擬資產商提供的這些服務也有"},{"start":2374.135,"end":2395.108,"text":"較多的一個保障因此相關虛擬資產立法必須要能達到保護投資以及整個市場健全由於實務上虛擬資產服務商會努力向散戶來推銷他的商品來吸引交易因此虛擬資產服務商與散戶之間"},{"start":2400.452,"end":2413.407,"text":"這個很有可能產生特別嚴重的這些資訊上的不對等不對稱的這些問題啊那金管會扮演重要的把關角色本席建議虛擬資產"},{"start":2416.01,"end":2426.347,"text":"這個服務業者未來也要納入永續金融評鑑的指標以利民眾選擇優質虛擬資產服務業者我請問金管會你的看法為何"},{"start":2430.815,"end":2452.767,"text":"謝謝委員我想說剛剛委員提到永續金融評鑑那這個部分現在是以金融業為主那現在我們虛擬資產剛初步實施我想確實建立制度維護投資人以及交易人安全這是我們在立法上最重要的一個目的那未來有任何可以促進這個市場健全的方式我們都可以"},{"start":2453.467,"end":2476.238,"text":"都可以來考慮不過這個東西會有階段性的這樣那個考慮應該是他現階段可能那個標準可能沒辦法先跟我們的金融機構這樣的一個方式來做不過資訊充分的揭露以及未來給予是非常嚴謹的管理應該是我們在這個對虛擬資產服務業者應該是是非常重要最重要對解決資訊不對稱的問題確實是"},{"start":2479,"end":2494.335,"text":"我是認為這個我們你們要是實施以後開始做我認為可以該做的要求的還是這個建基制的一定要做那個主委啊虛擬資產易受人"},{"start":2495.316,"end":2518.497,"text":"人為的一個操作或炒作那交易資訊不透明而且價格波動大投資風險高本席以購買基金為例基金價格波動風險由低至高分為五級來協助投資人判斷該基金是否符合自己的這些風險承受度"},{"start":2520.139,"end":2540.937,"text":"並要求投資人購買錢必須要填寫風險屬性問卷的KYC譬如問卷結果這個低風險承受度則民眾不能購買高風險的基金是保障民眾投資的一種機制那如果這個"},{"start":2543.441,"end":2559.47,"text":"這個未來如果這個虛擬資產服務商落地管理後這個民眾購買或使用虛擬資產服務商品是否也應該比照基金的風險將虛擬資產風險的程度分類並要求民眾購買前要做風險屬性的問卷那個金管會你們對這樣的做法您看法如何"},{"start":2570.616,"end":2597.369,"text":"謝謝委員我想對於這個因為其實整個虛擬資產服務的客戶有分各種不同的型態有些是這個專業的交易人有些是就像剛剛委員提到就是一般的投資人或是持有人這部分的話我們在我們的那個條文裡面確實剛剛做到剛剛委員提到就是所謂的KYC就是我們像我們現在是這是金融服務業裡面非常基本的一個要求"},{"start":2598.229,"end":2624.596,"text":"對於你的客戶他的風險屬性以及了解你的客戶推薦或是交易適當風險的產品這未來也會納入到我們的這個規範裡面好 我是認為要嚴謹本息關係 虛擬資產服務業者加入應用程式介面這個API調查機制的情形根據法務部11306月資料台灣高等檢察署"},{"start":2625.416,"end":2627.998,"text":"已經以4家虛擬資產服務業者建立API的查調這個機制並規劃擴大這個擴大"},{"start":2640.714,"end":2669.124,"text":"至其他這個虛擬資產服務業者那請法務部 法務部今天有派代表來嘛來做說明虛擬資產服務業者加入應用程式介面API整個調查機制最新的情況並說明是否有助提升整個基層檢查追查這個虛擬資產的金流偵查的效率今天那個"},{"start":2672.031,"end":2688.66,"text":"是不是請法務部 法務部啊我們楊檢察官因為未來虛擬資產服務法草案三讀通過後 法務部在要求業者配合查對不法這些金流上是否有更有約束力啊向委員報告考檢署現在我們有"},{"start":2696.841,"end":2723.007,"text":"檢察機關扣案虛擬資產平台監管平台2024年4月15號就正式上線所以在未來對於被告或犯罪嫌疑人所查扣虛擬資產都可以在安全的系統下被妥善保管他等待確定判決後才會將之沒收或發案給被害人以徹底剝奪被告犯罪不罰所得對不對好啦 那你就回去啦對那個"},{"start":2726.564,"end":2731.769,"text":"主委接下來我請問財政部今天有派人來嗎今天財政部有國庫署因為現在虛擬資產現在不是這個"},{"start":2745.866,"end":2759.23,"text":"虛擬資產現在不只是詐騙的工具它也是很多散戶投資人配置資產的工具比特幣前陣子的狂飆國內有很多人賺了大錢財政部"},{"start":2762.511,"end":2788.684,"text":"這個你可不可以說明針對國內投資人買賣虛擬資產的這些財產交易所得國稅局課稅情況以及啊追查他的漏稅的成果因為未來虛擬資產服務法草案三讀通過以後財政部會如何與虛擬資產業者合作協助業者民眾合法的報稅我想這點很重要你們可以做一個說明"},{"start":2790.305,"end":2811.218,"text":"報告委員,那這個只要有個人有這些虛擬資產一些交易的話就像委員講的,就是說他還是要依法去申報財產交易所得的那這個相關的這些資訊呢,我們到時候都會如果未來修法上路以後,我們都會透過一些管道去收集相關的資訊來去做一個合克的動作"},{"start":2811.638,"end":2825.894,"text":"因為民眾擔心虛擬資產投資血本無歸那我請問那個彭主委虛擬資產業者是否有需要成立虛擬資產業者的保存公司有沒有需要你認為"},{"start":2826.835,"end":2853.252,"text":"委員的意思是說類似像我們草案提到的有關那個類似我們現在金融安全網的設計嗎?那我們有提到過就是從我們也看國際發展比較快的這個市場它沒有設計類似像存保因為它畢竟比如說虛擬資產它是一個資產跟存款還是有點差異不過他們現在有一些替代的信任機制比如說像有些交易平台它就會按照它的營業額收入提撥一定的基金"},{"start":2853.812,"end":2882.094,"text":"未來在他們比如說這個平台被害被盜的時候產生這個損失由這個基金來做適度的填補來建立那個交易人的信心但我還沒有看到其他國家類似建立類似這樣存保的機制去針對虛擬資產交易不過它像我們現在法規裡面有提到就是說我們必須把你的虛擬資產跟你客戶你保管的必須隔離而且冷熱錢包之間必須要一定高比率的方式要放在冷錢包裡面就是做這些安全的機制"},{"start":2882.714,"end":2909.281,"text":"主委我是希望說既然要立法我們就要嚴謹那這如何去杜絕一些這個受詐的情形 欺騙的行為等等我認為這是很重要希望你們在立法的時候一定要很審慎很嚴謹委員指教都是我們這次立法的重點好 謝謝謝謝我們結束林德福委員的質詢接下來請第二位吳秉瑞召委"},{"start":2920.734,"end":2948.481,"text":"主席麻煩請金管會捧主委請金管會捧主委委員長早安早今天討論這個虛擬資產的這個管理的方法就剛剛大家也都提到最嚴重的是如何杜絕詐騙因為虛擬資產這是新興的東西很多人被詐騙的太陽有很多所以"},{"start":2949.451,"end":2974.081,"text":"看以前的案例 像去年就發生好幾件嘛S的王牌交易所的詐騙案嘛然後還有臂想還有很多上甚至是投放虛擬的那個假的廣告用名人詐騙等等這些詐騙案件你有想用什麼樣的方法是比較有可能可以至少壓制減緩或是杜絕"},{"start":2975.482,"end":3004.184,"text":"是 謝謝委員我想主要詐騙是過去很多人對所謂的虛擬資產第一個印象那確實是過去它很高度的匿名性那這部分而且在國際之間進行移轉那其實我們在這個當立法以後基本上第一個必須要做好嚴格的KYC就是誰來跟你做交易基本上這個帳戶這個錢包是誰的這個比如說這個交易平台跟你往來之間必須要知道這就是我覺得這個非常重要像剛剛委員提到就是說過去"},{"start":3005.144,"end":3032.968,"text":"現金跟虛擬資產之間的交易形成斷點我們在這邊也做了規範還有就是說基本上在實體跟虛擬之間必須透過我們監管的銀行跟我們的監管金融機構跟這個虛擬服務業者合作的時候我們可以透過這樣的方式來進行所謂的管制還有就是未來金流的部分怎麼樣流動都必須要申報我想這些都是很重要再來就是我們會透過國際合作的方式來進行這樣的一個防詐的工作"},{"start":3034.608,"end":3062.3,"text":"另外你現在一開始是主要是讓合法業者來申請然後組工會然後業者自主管理是然後希望他們能夠提升管理的水準你覺得這個未來走的方向如果你說讓台灣的投資者對於這個有信心的話我認為最後最後的體系是不是走到類似交易所這樣的制度"},{"start":3069.497,"end":3086.548,"text":"其實跟委員報告就是說其實上我們現在以我們現在的現有的這八家的經營形態裡面有大概四五家申請所謂的平台商他基本上就已經有類似我們的交易所的概念其實整個交易所是我們未來監管非常重點因為他是一個買進賣出跟資金資產移動的節點"},{"start":3089.17,"end":3113.584,"text":"那這部分的話當然這是在管理上也是特別的完整以及就是嚴格啦那當然這是一個市場機制當然透過比如說由公營或是高度監管的方式那當然對未來的管控是比較好但是我們現在看國際上大部分這些都不是由政府來管控不過即便是民營的交易所基本上到最後的話也是要受到非常高度的監理因為"},{"start":3114.825,"end":3137.444,"text":"無論是在英國或是無論在美國人家的交易本來就是他們就沒有像我們台灣這樣子的這個公家來弄交易所的制度啦我現在是講說那個信賴的問題你一開始事先這樣管理那這樣我們了解未來如果你有這個方向我們現在證交所啦OTC啦還有奇交所這些都是"},{"start":3138.445,"end":3144.629,"text":"至少在台灣的民眾相信說這是政府準公家在監控的單位所以"},{"start":3145.72,"end":3169.767,"text":"那樣的管理讓大家的信心是比較足的啦你如果讓業者自主的管理信心度的那個是會有我個人認為會有差啦那所以我的想像是說你現在一開始先初步這樣管理執法等等都去定然後大家是這樣走但是走到一定的程度之後也沒有可能公家來成立一個虛擬資產的交易所"},{"start":3170.347,"end":3185.149,"text":"我想未來什麼都有可能啦但是就等於說其實在初始階段我們市場上從登記制到現在我們市場上已經有一些經營業者在經營只是說現在我們過去是所謂類高度監理那現在會變成是真實高度監理"},{"start":3186.05,"end":3202.113,"text":"在這個過程當中 剛才委員講就是說其實整個去中心化金融裡面在國際的發展趨勢很明顯的中心化提供了信任比如政府的立法的管理還有就是透過政府公權力的介入都會產生一般民眾信任"},{"start":3202.794,"end":3228.544,"text":"的來源這也是其實某種程度也有助於這樣這個產業的發展我覺得剛剛委員提到我們是持開放的態度來針對這未來市場的發展不過我們現在先以市場秩序跟整個就是我們交易人的保護為主要的立法的目標好那因為你花了這麼大的力氣監管那如果能夠將來能夠成立交易所"},{"start":3230.014,"end":3248.074,"text":"公家的交易所將來很多年以後至少在政府的稅收上面也會有幫助你看現在我們的證券交易事實上因為政府我們是用採收證交稅的方式但是因為交易有一大那政府的稅收也能夠得到一些保障"},{"start":3249.444,"end":3272.136,"text":"那所以制度當然跟其他國家政所的制度不太一樣但是每一個國家有他自己的做法那我在想說如果能夠長期來成立的話長期的方向如果是這樣的話對台灣的未來也是會有所注意的第一個提升投資者的信任度、公信力第二個因為交易所如果是掌握在政府的手裡"},{"start":3273.601,"end":3295.975,"text":"至少可以很多方面的公式公信資訊這方面的那個要求的公開跟透明會比較高然後對交易者來講也會比較有保障好那我再請教你的問題因為我最近我們的服務處遇到的那個金融消費平益中心他平益文案件銀行不遵守"},{"start":3297.25,"end":3323.095,"text":"那你這樣子金融消費評議中心評議幹嘛他沒有存在的必要啊照理來講金融消費評議中心評議了如果當事人不服可以去法院告這是我了解問題那個是跟銀行之間有法律能力跟資訊的落差現在是評議了消費者接受銀行不接受那怎麼會有這樣的狀況所以我想這個"},{"start":3325.203,"end":3342.125,"text":"剛剛我們局長跟總經理也在,是不是請他們簡單的回答一下?各位報告,那個個案是TIF,TIF是不在評議中心的法效率裡面但是這個部分我們也會跟評議中心密切聯絡,只要是評議中心調處的案件,我們都會一件一件來檢視"},{"start":3343.442,"end":3361.943,"text":"他這個事情很離譜第一個是第一次調處那一間銀行我不要點名那一間銀行對金融消費平息中心譬如說要賠12%12%已經很低了DRF對台灣的損害傷害很大結果那一間銀行完全不理他"},{"start":3363.084,"end":3389.07,"text":"就後來他再申請第二次評議評議還是說應該要還那一部分這次評議降到10%只還他10%陳清仁也沒有意見啊說那你就照評議中心的評議處理就銀行還是不遵守如果這樣子的狀況一再的發生的話那你金融消費者評議中心就關門就好啦你的評議今天不是當事人不接受不是陳清仁不接受是你銀行不接受"},{"start":3391.271,"end":3419.31,"text":"那這樣子的話那金融消費平益中心給人家的感受就是找你也沒有用啊是不是會有這樣的狀況是 更委員幫過去285件裡面絕大多數銀行其實都會接受那對於少數沒有辦法接受的部分我們會跟平益中心來聯繫我們會一件一件來釐清銀行該負的責任就是要負責那了解清楚好不好我覺得平益中心坦白講如果照規定你們是找了一些專家來嘛"},{"start":3420.1,"end":3448.861,"text":"然後來評議他會做出評議而且陳述真的是不高那這樣的評議我相信有相當的道理啦那這個被評議的對象就是陳建仁來陳情來申請然後相對對照是銀行你知道那個權利義務是大家的那個是不對等的喔銀行是他無論在法律能力無論在各方面他都明顯告於這個當事人嘛那"},{"start":3449.98,"end":3462.238,"text":"金融消費評議中心所做的評議屢次不遵守然後一副不奈他何這個樣子那這樣子你們的法治是不是你覺得有沒有檢討的地方呢"},{"start":3463.101,"end":3479.919,"text":"因為這個部分目前是緊急於調處但即便是調處也是陳儒委員所說的這是評議中心所做出來的決定那非常具有高度的一個專業跟公信力那這個部分個案上我們會找銀行來跟我們說明清楚"},{"start":3480.814,"end":3502.088,"text":"好 謝謝當然當年的TRF這個危害到現在還沒有完全解決剩下少數數量不多的個案希望今晚會能夠努力因為我在第九屆立委的時候我列管要求他每個月要給我一個報表看你們已經解決了多少那現在已經第十一屆了這麼多年了那"},{"start":3503.532,"end":3525.879,"text":"這個尾巴剩下不多如果你們能夠處理完至少也告訴國人說我們DIF所有的生意都解決了這對我們國人來講說至少當年的錯誤已經有被矯正了至少被治療了一部分那個彭主委可不可以啊我們再繼續努力啦所以剛剛局長已經說了他會全力來協調這件事情好謝謝你謝謝委員"},{"start":3528.628,"end":3535.375,"text":"謝謝我們結束第二位吳秉瑞召委的質詢接下來請第三位林黛華委員的質詢好我們有請主委請鵬主委"},{"start":3549.954,"end":3566.508,"text":"其實是肯定我們櫃會當中你們去研理了這個虛擬資產服務法但是到底它是我們金融創新的保護傘還是境外巨頭的免死金牌所以也跟你做了一些詢問"},{"start":3571.049,"end":3591.059,"text":"好我們來看這個VSP這個洗房亂象這個合法業者少境外黑數多在合法合規的目前才8家這你們這個完成洗錢房子登記的但是呢這個境外黑數多達了30家的一個警示名單"},{"start":3592.899,"end":3620.549,"text":"我們這邊看到說你們的監管不章是在於你花了三年的時間112年到114年你才稽查了12家在去年的時候你在9月就已經你去年11月你裁罰了6家這6家當中有5家是你在9月的時候就告訴他說你不可以再提供服務了你要停業了可是他停業之後"},{"start":3622.253,"end":3644.567,"text":"不應該有任何的行為啊 可是他還是繼續執業啊所以呢你們就在11月的時候給他裁罰 這代表什麼你們儘管會是後事後決 也許在你的下達之前 裁罰之前他早就捲款跑路了包括你花了三年才查了12家那包括你的提供 你要對他裁罰是在你後續"},{"start":3647.008,"end":3653.25,"text":"已經列管停業的指令之下你還再給他裁罰那可能在他裁罰之後我就捲款重討了所以針對警政署刑事警察局針對DSP的經驗這個我一字不漏地就列出來"},{"start":3664.033,"end":3682.941,"text":"他說這個警察機關他有什麼困境呢第一個他對於交易平台這個所屬錢包的交易平台他沒有辦法掌握第二個我們虛擬資產的交易所都設在國外所以我只要透過跨國司法的互助其實我也得不到任何的回應"},{"start":3684.301,"end":3687.365,"text":"那第三個呢這個針對非託管的錢包本身這個錢包非在交易平台當中所產生的錢包我也沒有辦法得到他的身份認證第四個我的犯罪手法雖然你們即使未來會改為許可"},{"start":3700.1,"end":3719.777,"text":"但是還是有很多是以私人幣來進行的非法場外的交易的詐欺案件那詐騙集團也常誘導被害人說你要隱匿案情喔消費對話記錄及交易憑證截圖而且甚至讓被害人不願意配合報案來提供相關的證明"},{"start":3721.832,"end":3746.028,"text":"所以本席這邊要跟你請教的是全球加密貨幣交易所的排名全球前十大的虛擬貨幣的服務商在台灣沒有一家合法也並沒有全部是在台灣的這30家的警示名單內請教主委這樣的大型境外的交易所您要怎麼的控管呢"},{"start":3747.633,"end":3770.648,"text":"謝謝委員的關心其實剛剛委員提到的就是過去在沒有專法納管所鞭長不及的地方過去我們不可否認我們的虛擬資產服務業者在全球是野蠻生長包括我想各位都非常清楚去年美國GENES法案才真的約束到所謂穩定幣所以真正穩定幣也沒有在美國發行就是說我說在那個法律之前"},{"start":3771.969,"end":3793.52,"text":"那我想這也就是納管的重要性 剛才委員不管說交易平台的納管 還有在國外的幣商還有這些非托管錢包 確實剛才我們檢調單位遇到的困境這確實在過去 因為它是跟境外的交易所交易 但不在我們的管轄法下面那未來呢 我們就希望透過這樣一個立法 然後來達到這一點 剛剛委員提到就是說"},{"start":3794.48,"end":3821.374,"text":"境外這些巨頭那為什麼我們的監理態度我想在我們的那個草案裡面的第七條第三項我們就已經有針對就是說未來這個境外他可以在台灣有兩條路徑一個就是他可以來設立分支機構另外一個他直接可以來投資設立新的交易所或新的VASP業者我想我們過去這條路一直都沒有關閉一直都是存在包括以前登記錄主委講到這邊來那我就來就針對你剛才回答的"},{"start":3822.054,"end":3825.376,"text":"我右邊這一張這個報導它其實是教導守則這個非法的出金合法的業者淪為洗錢的終端右邊喔它這個網路上隨便說都是教學我境外的這個平台教育在台灣合規的業者也就是蔚蘭尼納館的業者出金"},{"start":3846.892,"end":3874.835,"text":"所以這些合規的業者就像是洗錢鍊的最後一端他要把錢領出來的時候前面他怎麼用我們也管不著反正就是怎麼洗洗洗洗到這邊來然後之後到台灣他要變錢成台幣的時候我們還有教學指引就右邊給你寫得很清楚好他們雖然完成了KYC但是對於前端來自境外高風險交易所的資金來源我根本還是無從查緝"},{"start":3876.716,"end":3897.346,"text":"那主委你怎麼看其實我們現在VASP業者現在我們台灣這個現在合法經營的八家都是我們洗錢防治法裡面的所謂的要嚴格遵守洗錢防治的比如說該來的資金流如何做登記如何做管理我想應該都是有在被管理主委我這邊只是提醒"},{"start":3899.027,"end":3919.179,"text":"這個如果是像這個案例產生你真的為了交易所能夠對於上端上端上端的這個洗錢的所有的錢包地址全部都能都能夠掌握嗎這我只是一個一個提醒你我覺得這個很困難其實沒有錯我已經提到那個就是我們國際賽講的Travel Rule"},{"start":3920.16,"end":3946.978,"text":"好 OK那當然你們的資產虛擬資產管理法當中有四個重點其實重點是在於對境外虛擬資產的服務商在台灣設立分支機構應該要得到主管機關的許可而且發給許可證照這其實是你們的重點那本席有三點要跟您就教就像幣安跟OKS這種大型境外交易所金管會要如何建立然後虛擬資產管理法如何能夠規範得到"},{"start":3948.439,"end":3966.033,"text":"第二個國內的這個VSP的業者呢依據資產管理法被嚴格的查核監理但境外平台根本不需要落地啊我也不需要納管啊我一樣能夠在線上收費營業啊那誰還要乖乖的申請你這一套許可證呢"},{"start":3967.872,"end":3982.79,"text":"主委如果不落地只要不落地難道就是境外巨頭的免死金牌嗎還是國人遭了詐騙之後我又如何來保護國人呢其實委員講到都是非常核心的問題第一個"},{"start":3984.175,"end":4006.586,"text":"第一個比如說我們虛擬資產它本質是一個跨國際的平台任何一個人有能力上網跟他做交易其實上我想這個就是在國際的但是不可否認的對一般人而言他假設要透過比如說我們合法的銀行的帳戶或是我們現行的交易所能夠很簡單的接近這個交易的話"},{"start":4007.846,"end":4027.398,"text":"還是以比如說我們現在的合規的這個比較好這也是為什麼很多國外大型的這些的所謂的B商他願意來台灣跟我們申請要落地否則他根本不用確實他們也不斷的跟我們接觸我想這部分確實是對啊如果像第一個嘛像B安跟OKS嘛也許B安跟你有接觸OKS沒有"},{"start":4028.979,"end":4041.096,"text":"那這個OKS你要怎麼去管理它呢那你的資產管理法怎麼規範的到呢類似但是OKS也夠大喔它也是全世界第三大行"},{"start":4042.071,"end":4058.534,"text":"我跟委員報告一下就是說其實在國際金融上面它其實過去有類似的這樣的一個概念比如說我一個人有能力在網路上去購買其他國家的金融商品那其實上這件事情是個人的行為但它不會受到本國法律的任何的保障"},{"start":4059.375,"end":4081.506,"text":"那相對的 但是這種人相對比較少我們未來所要想像就是說我們有自己本地的監管體系我們可以讓大部分的國人很安心的也很自由的進行主委 這個我也是提醒就是說今天你有修了立了這個法就是要接軌國際但是我覺得對國人來講不在乎你有沒有接軌國際是我的詐騙能不能減少"},{"start":4083.587,"end":4106.664,"text":"這件事情我的錢透過這個虛擬的這個市場去交易之後我的錢能不能追回來這才是國人要的要不然你這個法通過其實對國人其實是無感的重點是洗錢房子當中我們能達到防詐的本意所以其實你也辛苦啦我說我也肯定你們修這個法但是確實有好多像本席剛才提的這三點其實是"},{"start":4107.845,"end":4131.027,"text":"你們要更花點心如何來保護國人的其實謝委員的提醒這些都是非常關鍵的最後我也一個結語就是其實由登記制強化建立為許可制其實在過去兩年的登記制當中我們的具體執法是不髒的所以未來修法後重研治理之後有效執法才是本法的重點"},{"start":4131.527,"end":4148.853,"text":"不要鬧到說我們最後台灣的虛擬資產服務法淪為管得到本土小於漏掉境外大白沙的窘境好 以上 謝謝謝謝委員的提醒 謝謝謝謝林代化委員的質詢接下來請郭國文委員謝謝主席 有請彭主委"},{"start":4163.427,"end":4188.842,"text":"我們今天要討論這個虛擬資產業者的這個專法之前本席想要先跟您對話的有關於這個金融科技業的這個分流的一個概念跟合流的一個問題也就是說呢其實我們在前年的時候有去日本的時候去參觀的相關業者主要的部分包括GMO跟SBI這兩個集團"},{"start":4190.643,"end":4217.549,"text":"這兩個集團的時候我們有把它制度面引進到台灣來有一定程度的一個制度的一個參考方式可是對照於日本跟台灣之間的一個概念來說台灣目前的這個金融科技業的部分是採取一種很分流的狀況這個分的過程當中呢卻又有大強小小強更小而且這種開放式的方式又是單向的方式以至於現階段來說我們看到"},{"start":4219.83,"end":4247.661,"text":"那個有一些電子支付業者本身有10家然後呢因為我們又開放了銀行38家業者下去可以做建議總共20家投入那目前現狀我們就談現狀就好了電子支付業者基本上真正啊賺錢的其實就只有一家LiPay而已LiPay本身是他因為他的會員很多啊這是他基本的優勢啊可是這種東西真的是一種屠殺的狀況到底啊我們的整個"},{"start":4249.943,"end":4270.445,"text":"整個我們金融科技的整個發展的路徑圖到底是什麼樣子老實講我看的不是非常的清楚第二個部分你接下來電子支付業者他又可以去從事匯兌業務匯兌他不是找本國他現在積極的想要介入這個移工的小額匯兌的部分那不是小的又搶更小的嗎"},{"start":4271.806,"end":4290.943,"text":"那現在的虛擬資產的部分 現實上真正有交易金額 老實說有三家而已簡單的這張圖就是一二三 右邊的部分一二三電子支付一家賺錢 移工的會停留在只有兩家的業務虛擬貨幣基本上真的有交易量就只有三家 看起來很多"},{"start":4291.764,"end":4307.936,"text":"但是實際上是很少那就是我們設定一個分流的概念那這種分流的概念的情況底下是不是一個好的現象或者是我們要現階段如果假設你真的要分流的話你是不是應該讓分流者都健康的成長之後再來考慮合流"},{"start":4308.476,"end":4324.165,"text":"而不是一分然後馬上又合而且是單項的合單項的合就是大吃小小吃更小而是單項小的不能去吃大的喔電子支付不能搶銀行的喔小兒會對不能去介入電子支付的喔那這就亂掉啦"},{"start":4325.643,"end":4335.221,"text":"對不對 主委我真的很想知道到底我們有沒有可能新的有一種金融科技的一個新的發展的藍圖的可能性否則的話會一團亂你的藍圖會變成江湖啦"},{"start":4339.554,"end":4356.112,"text":"主委 這是本席擔心的地方啊 要先跟你討論這個部分對 謝謝委員提的一個非常複雜的一個問題因為剛剛提到就是說我們剛才這幾種業態的過程它不是一次同時出現它是一個因著市場的環境逐一的發生的結果"},{"start":4356.733,"end":4372.711,"text":"再來一個其實我過去在長期研究金融科技我在學校的時候大概就是其實台灣的特殊的法治結構其實這樣是一個很關鍵的原因比如說過去我們任何一個執照都必須要有一個法律來支撐那比如說銀行法"},{"start":4373.231,"end":4396.251,"text":"那你要做到銀行的業務必須拿到他的執照除非你要做到他部分業務你還是要拿到一個銀行的執照那只好不斷的分化出其他比如說小額匯兌或電子支付那這件事情呢等於說我們是從既有的市場切出一塊針對未來的演進需要他只專做這一小塊我們給他一個執照一開始他就居於一個比較是"},{"start":4400.293,"end":4419.238,"text":"我們沒辦法像其他國家比如他的法制是一個很有彈性我直接給你一個新的業態去經營我想這是我們也觀察到的一個問題確實是我們先天上有一些限制但是所有的這種類似金融商品的話金融科技商品都是先有市場才有法制但是我們根本上台灣更"},{"start":4419.838,"end":4438.459,"text":"根本的問題是over banking的問題嘛我們本來銀行就太多嘛那銀行就是要搶業務結果就搶到電子支付電子支付又搶到這個小兒會對嘛所以大家撐不下去的時候就是想方設法那之後會變成一團大亂那因為有市場在轉入法治的過程當中主委您的角色就很重要"},{"start":4439.62,"end":4459.218,"text":"你要去如何宏觀調控這個金融科技業的產業發展的路徑藍圖我是希望在你這一任當中有屬於你的架構藍圖出來啦能夠在分流的前提健全之後再考慮合流而不是分了之後呢現在變成亂流而且是以大吃小的這種狀況我講的這個現狀你不否認吧"},{"start":4462.361,"end":4483.373,"text":"沒有我想喔 其實還是有點差異啦我覺得委員看到是一個現象確實是 我剛才講過就是說它如果是同時發展的話那當然他們各自沒有沒有 這現實上不可能同時發展嘛 對不對所以說因為現實上不可能同時發展這同時進入市場我就再舉更小的例子給你聽嘛我只是說這是它過去歷史因素導致的基礎本來就不太一致"},{"start":4483.533,"end":4498.33,"text":"所以說我們只能在事後在一個timing點來調用制度來做調整嘛譬如講我書移植說現在電子支付的話他的第三項要不就是可以辦理國內外的小額這個會對這寫很清楚嘛可是他的發展方向呢他不是針對國人"},{"start":4499.891,"end":4527.569,"text":"或者外國旅客他反而要跳過去已經做好的那兩家去搶他的業務那不是更亂搶下去以後就亂殺價嘛那這種生存的空間就越差嘛我舉的是這個例子好那我們再回顧到我們剛剛講了日本他開放那個VASP的這個部分的狀況日本在開放VASP的部分在開放這個虛擬資產的這個牌照的過程當中很重要的是第一個除了交易之外"},{"start":4528.51,"end":4551.691,"text":"第二個他是第一種經商委法院所謂的幹桿跟衍生性商品另外呢他們也因為市場後制度的情況底下他連電子支付都可以做甚至他後來還可以去那個那個成立所謂的網路銀行然後用銀行來發行這一個穩定幣也就是他會變成一個比較健全的金融科技業者"},{"start":4552.412,"end":4573.388,"text":"可是台灣現在我覺得看不出這種可能性啦然後不只如此喔那個主委你去看喔依照我們的條文精神當中喔依照日本那個部分我們去看考察的時候前年我們去看考察的時候他們因為屈原之後把整個交易量從30%降到5%那我們本來消費量就很少啦"},{"start":4574.048,"end":4601.014,"text":"如果按照我們這種方式的話都是採取一個相對穩健當然也是算是保守因為我們不想出事情的情況底下這種分階段的處理先通過魔法再通過執法然後再發照再輔導商戶那不知道要多久了這是第一啦第二個的部分呢在收入面的部分就只有維持第一個這一個交易而已簡單的交易買賣而已還沒有衍生性的商品"},{"start":4601.954,"end":4630.515,"text":"第二個呢 你成本又把它拉高你要到五億然後內積內控又要加嚴又雷同一特許行業這種情況底下也就是說我們看到我們在學習日本的過程當中日本進了我們跟著進日本不進了我們也在進所以說這種情況底下台灣的這個那個虛擬資產業者基本上所面對的困難性會更加的"},{"start":4632.073,"end":4649.904,"text":"嚴酷啊所以到底接下來很重要的關鍵啊老實說啦這三家能夠支持這目前八家當中老實說真正有比較大而已你也只有三家啦到底會維持幾家我個人啊 老實講我抱持著相當大的懷疑啦"},{"start":4650.504,"end":4673.234,"text":"那相當大懷疑的部分呢如果去銜接這一個產業你要如何去看待它也就是在第二個部分的可能性怎麼樣以及將來在分流健康情況底下以後在過一段時間以後大的一個趨勢當中合流的可能性就有待於這一個足穩你的智慧跟判斷還有政策的形成"},{"start":4676.549,"end":4701.549,"text":"剛剛委員提到有一點我們對虛擬資產服務業者其實我們並不是說專法執法才開始做其實我們這是跟過去很特別的我們已經開始有這個行業了我們開始才做專法所以各位注意看奇怪我們專法都沒通過為什麼市場已經有八家其實這已經做了一個非常彈性而且已經順應整個的這個做法不過剛剛委員提到就是說各個國家它確實有些可以值得參考"},{"start":4702.29,"end":4719.7,"text":"但是就像我長期研究金融制度我就知道任何一個制度的產生不是憑空出來的跟它的整個歷史因素有很大的關係我們的歷史不一樣不過它做出來的東西確實可以未來我們做個參考比如說剛才講各個業態我們所能做的當然不一樣但是我覺得好的地方我們可以來研究啦是啊"},{"start":4720,"end":4735.391,"text":"本席就在跟你對話這個我不是照抄啊當然我是說我們我看到了一些大的狀況我們的狀況是如此嘛你剛才不否定我剛剛的觀察嘛所以在不否定的情況底下是不是在做一些大跟小之間的區隔以及呢"},{"start":4736.031,"end":4757.351,"text":"分流之間的一個培養有一點育成的一個概念讓他們在沙盒實驗能夠更加茁壯的情況底下你已經放出去等於是沙盒已經完成的情況底下讓它更茁壯的情況考慮到未來有河流的可能性我覺得這或許是對台灣的整個金融科技業者比較好的發展路徑這是本席跟你對話的關鍵的地方"},{"start":4759.375,"end":4781.832,"text":"那剛剛委員提到的概念也是啊任何一個政府他開放一個行業都希望這行業能夠發展起來是否則他乾脆就不要開放是是是但就是說這個這個開放以後他自己經營能力跟市場能不能存活又是另外一個殘酷的對市場是一回事但制度也產生影響啊他會造成生態的不一樣啊或者是我們現在討論制度的時候有些委員的版本啊"},{"start":4782.532,"end":4808.529,"text":"硬梆梆的就定在說母法當中六個月就應該給他核准那有些應該放在子法就不應該放在母法不是嗎那當然他有一定的tempo要去處理的嘛對不對所以我是覺得齁主委接下來在討論這部法的過程當中我請你再回去稍微釐清一下到底我們的金融科技業的路徑要怎麼發展我期待你提出您的3.0的版本謝謝主委謝謝謝謝委員的指導謝謝"},{"start":4811.931,"end":4837.243,"text":"謝謝我們結束第四位郭國文委員的質詢接下來請賴會員委員謝謝主席有請金管會主委主委早安主委早安我想連續兩週等一下暫停一下暫停一下"},{"start":4842.304,"end":4842.533,"text":"那這次"},{"start":4844.332,"end":4872.805,"text":"好 主委連續兩週就是說我們都在提這個虛擬貨幣這一個專華我想大家都很關心這一個專華那事實上就是說歐美國家對虛擬貨幣的管理其實他們已經逐漸上了軌道那越來越興盛那我在這裡頭全球十大那個就是他的十大虛擬貨幣這些那個交易所列在這個地方"},{"start":4875.227,"end":4895.1,"text":"每天他就有71兆的業績這十家裡頭只有兩家其實他在我們國內設有辦公室設有辦公室倒是我要特別跟主委請教一下台灣現在有多少人持有加密筆就是你所有的資料裡頭"},{"start":4896.881,"end":4905.647,"text":"現在我們沒有比較確切的統計大概5到10%左右5到10%左右你這一個5到10%是用2300萬還是1300萬的在股市裡頭不是因為我們主要是我們那個那個虛擬資產服務工會他本質上有對他客戶做一些統計我記得待會請棋局大概差不多100萬左右的人"},{"start":4923.41,"end":4951.163,"text":"一百萬還是兩百萬我的數字裡頭超一百萬左右的開戶數一百萬的開戶數在我們國內的這些VASP業者裡面開戶我想主委一百萬還是兩百萬這個未來是因為它有些事可能是在境外但是它在比如說它在國內的VASP因為我們所能掌控的就是國內的業者這些合規的業者裡面所承包的數字"},{"start":4951.883,"end":4978.551,"text":"好那我們看到一個新加坡的那個貨幣商他有公佈在2023的時候他公佈就是台灣持有加密幣的人口是57萬那他在這一份報告裡頭他有特別講到了全世界就是印度印度是最多人然後在中國在美國那台灣投入新貨幣交易的人口其實並不多並不多不管是57萬還是100萬裡頭"},{"start":4981.172,"end":4996.652,"text":"其實它在全球排名才第51名那這樣的一個排名諸位你認為是什麼樣的一個原因讓這個投資的人口其實沒有像全世界是就是在這個加密幣的一個市場裡頭這麼興盛"},{"start":4998.574,"end":5024.609,"text":"其實我覺得在這個發展的初期去比如說去搶這個排名本質上意義不大我們是怎麼樣管好這個市場以後因為以剛剛委員提到那個金額假設未來它會發展起來它相較現在金融市場還是非常的小那我想說在這時候因為我們過去我們有我們自己的法治結構那當然本來本來就不是一個要跟世界上爭前面第一名但是我們希望把這個結構基礎把它做得"},{"start":5026.67,"end":5048.621,"text":"我現在的意思是說我在提醒你就是說這個排序只是我們一個參考可是它在未來它有可能等一下在下面我會再跟你做一個探討它越來越多人我們看到一個2022年11月當時候全球第二大的一個加密貨幣交易所"},{"start":5051.582,"end":5068.042,"text":"那個FTX這個宣布破產了以後台灣也受傷了非常的嚴重在這裡我們投資的人口就越來越多了這個為什麼會超過30萬甚至它損失的美金是4億那受影響"},{"start":5068.823,"end":5092.659,"text":"受影響那個排序就在第七樓那這個事件其實它有一個很精準的一個數字這個事件反映出來的就是什麼就是我們政府對這個虛擬貨幣的一個監管的不確定性我們簽署具體的一個虛擬貨幣的一個政策跟消費者的一個權益保障其實這個也是一直民眾對投資那個數位貨幣的那個"},{"start":5096.261,"end":5123.29,"text":"信心不足可是兩年過去了兩年過去了那我們美國加密幣監管正式進入了一個規範體系化的一個時代在上一週上一週3月17號3月17號就是說我們的美國證券交易那個委員會還有那個商品期貨交易委員會裡頭他聯合發布了一個68頁官方的解釋文件"},{"start":5124.15,"end":5146.802,"text":"那也等於是我想那個主委你非常的清楚那媒體的報導就是說美國政府正式就是說以執法代替監管的一個模式那甚至他把就是這幾個就是前16個主流的貨幣他把電線為數字的一個大宗商品"},{"start":5147.422,"end":5167.053,"text":"排除就是很明確的排除就是一個證件的一個屬性同時他也敲定了就是挖礦還有質押還有空投這個是三大核心為合法合規那就金管會的一個演繹這一份解釋性的文件跟我們監管的一個方向有沒有較大的一個差異"},{"start":5167.893,"end":5192.883,"text":"我想美國從去年應該講從川普上任以後不斷的釋出對這個虛擬幣友好的措施這是其中之一啦其實台灣我剛才講過就是我們整個也緊跟著國際上的趨勢但是我們會更審慎因為台灣的國情不同我們台灣對整個制度的這個信任的這些的選擇也不太一樣所以我的意思是說這部分"},{"start":5193.763,"end":5222.751,"text":"我們對這個市場我還是以審慎友好態度並沒有改變但是美國呢或是其他任何一個國家他一些的措施我們都嚴密的去觀察他的結果是如何我們再來看看所以我們看得到川普其實他是不斷的在那個挹注那個虛擬貨幣的一個聲勢甚至我們也看到他推出那個他的總統夫人那個梅尼亞幣的一個紀念幣其實兩年過去了民眾的投資信心回來了"},{"start":5223.311,"end":5242.207,"text":"可是現在就是要跟金管會討論的就是說之前是無法可管現在有法可以管那管得到嗎那虛擬貨幣的專法至少我覺得建議主委應該處理三大問題就是說我們業者的營運的一個監理"},{"start":5244.67,"end":5255.291,"text":"這個對我們來講我們期待這三個關鍵還有防炸防盜還有投資風險的一個揭露這個都是非常重要的那特別特別就是說"},{"start":5257.25,"end":5284.767,"text":"我這裡要請教那個主委就是在這個FTX倒閉的事件的關鍵的三個原因我們把它整理出來就是資金流動性的一個不足資金管理的一個不善還有就是過度依賴那個FTT的代幣那主委可以不可以清楚的回答我這三個問題在金管會的草案的版本裡頭哪一條條文可以管它"},{"start":5286.247,"end":5308.817,"text":"對 這個其實任何一個過去的案例就告訴我們在過去沒有納管的時代會發生這些問題比如說剛才講的資金流動性不足像我們就看到比如他的資產本身他沒有做隔離而且他在存取的時候並沒有做比如說這個保護像我們的我們現在的草案裡面就規定他的資產你保管客戶全部都要信託那會在不動產上面嗎"},{"start":5309.437,"end":5332.926,"text":"沒有就等於說他今年來保管資產全部信託的話基本上就像上次比如說我們這個單單發生問題的時候就隔離保護了再來就是說你不可以去動用客戶的資產像剛才這個案例裡面他就把客戶轉成是一個沒有價值的幣那當然到最後擠兌當然就沒有這個問題這個未來在整個高度監管下是不會發生這個事情那你的條文裡頭哪一條是用來就是"},{"start":5333.906,"end":5348.875,"text":"處理如果是倒閉事件的話你可以就是就用這樣的管理沒有關係你在會後那個提供給本席就剛才跟委員報告了就剛才我們的資產隔離還有像比如說我們的信託這些都都是一個保護的機制"},{"start":5349.275,"end":5368.861,"text":"好那我再請教一下就是我們虛擬資產服務法就是業者的營運的問題那服務商必須要有資本額那這個營業保險金這個你是怎麼要求的這個保證金基本上如果說我們所有金融業也都有這個制度"},{"start":5369.801,"end":5388.622,"text":"比如說我們的資本合會有一個最低資本的限制那你在營業之前要繳交一定比例的保證金這些東西就因應未來比如說你今天真的是停業的時候你也開始要清算這些東西都必須要有這些的保證那這部分也是保障營業安全很重要的機制你沒有回答我啦"},{"start":5389.202,"end":5414.498,"text":"那我想沒有關係反正這一部專法的執法因為我們還在研議中那特別要請教你就是說母法通過了以後半年可以不可以上路這個是很重要的一個問題我們其實現在所有執法都在準備中我們的目標而且我們的我們法治架構上的要求就是在這個半年之內要完成這些所有的事情"},{"start":5417.489,"end":5443.283,"text":"法律通過以後我們半年內必須要完成這件事情好那在特別就是虛擬資產服務法裡頭的資安跟保密的問題特別跟那個主委提到了就是說這個14條第二項有關那個資通系統的安全管理制度跟17條的保密事項其實很清楚就是說他希望帳號帳號被偷了錢就不見了那有"},{"start":5443.783,"end":5461.532,"text":"更好的一個規定就是說你在把那個虛擬貨幣跟那個帳號是分開的這個是確定的嗎對就是說今天來講的話這個資安的程序是保管剛剛講比如說我們對現在對冷熱錢包的比例就已經有規範了這些都是未來我們會納入執法裡面規範"},{"start":5463.025,"end":5483.215,"text":"最後我想時間有限,我再特別跟金管威要求,原理下面的事項,請金管威順便回答我就是美國政府發布的編號3311412檢要的研究報告提供給本席,然後提供給國內虛擬貨幣交易所的交易情況"},{"start":5484.275,"end":5509.993,"text":"做得出來嗎?可以對新興貨幣交易人進行適當的風險的示警跟宣傳跟宣導那我們也要求業者應該肩負合理的風險的那個揭露的一個義務那鼓勵境外交易所落地在台灣這個有機會做到嗎?我們法規裡面就有這個規定所以我們會建立一個消費者跨境申訴的一個管道"},{"start":5510.673,"end":5536.95,"text":"這部分還要再研因為這畢竟跨境不是我們單方面可以決定的那像我們的處境這麼困難我們國家的儲錢那個處境這麼困難的話所以跨境申訴的管道我們還需要就是在申部的研擬嗎?當然是因為我們只對金融機構但是這牽涉到犯罪還有很多各個部會跟國際的合作有在準備?深度的準備?我們法條裡面就有一條我們要進行所謂的國際合作的條文"},{"start":5537.818,"end":5544.341,"text":"好 謝謝主委 謝謝主席謝謝我們結束賴慧雲委員的質詢接下來請賴世保委員謝謝主席以及各位先進有請彭主委以及央行的外匯局長蔡局長一起"},{"start":5569.281,"end":5592.143,"text":"博主委跟蔡局長委員早安博主委早安我請教一下因為今天談虛擬貨幣這個虛擬貨幣這個有沒有利息啊虛擬資產虛擬資產就是剛委員如果講按照我們這個草案裡面如果是發行商不可以支付利息"},{"start":5594.771,"end":5614.105,"text":"所以沒有利息發行穩定幣的人不可以支付利息但是我們看到來看下一頁喔這個國外的都有USDC、USDT都有利息耶還有的比如說這個短期的到10%耶USDT、USDC"},{"start":5615.846,"end":5635.298,"text":"這個國際上都有耶如果是借貸商但是我跟你們講發行的部分是沒有像我想我也應該很清楚就是美國最近他們在討論的所謂的那個清潔法案他這裡面就是裡面是規定不准發利息嘛發行的部分那當然這部分有很多的這個所以"},{"start":5636.218,"end":5662.093,"text":"一直還沒有通過那我說我們的行政版本我們是支持在發行發行商是不支付利息這我們也跟央行也做過非常充分的討論那另外至於說今天持有以後他做這個虛擬資產的借貸服務的話那當然借貸本身就是會有就發行商比如說現在什麼叫造風銀行發行台灣的穩定幣他不可以給利息就這個意思提供轉換的服務"},{"start":5663.874,"end":5684.879,"text":"他提供轉換的服務交易的一個工具而已他不能加利息可是他如果在市面上流通市面怎麼樣去把它買賣有加利息這個你們不管他就是有一個借貸行為的話因為這有時間利益嘛這個當然是債權他們可以有利息啊對就是他的因為你犧牲了時間價值嘛現在來來來那個央行的局長"},{"start":5691.847,"end":5718.187,"text":"是 目前我們看到的也是就是國外的都是針對穩定幣的發行商是都是不給利息的那但是在平台商的部分 借貸商的部分因為他在國外的話因為有這個借貸的行為所以他們有的是複習的那他們也不算是一個複習的一個機制最主要是因為是一種就是一個補償這個借貸這個時間持有的過程裡面給可是我看到剛剛我給你秀給你看到10%欸 這麼高欸"},{"start":5720.822,"end":5745.994,"text":"我們不覺得這個USDT、USDC都有這麼高短時間 比如三個月給9%、給10%這個有 還有給到20幾%都有耶不過我想我應該知道比如說我們短期資金之間的拆借本來就是一個供需市場這個本來就會有一個跟我們一般長期的比如說存款的利率本來就不太一樣我的意思說 這個他們是從供需來決定的"},{"start":5749.423,"end":5754.028,"text":"我們看到最近在三月的時候外資大概賣掉了七千億"},{"start":5766.799,"end":5789.013,"text":"這個是台股這個重點很重的原因之一那就是 這個是為什麼看啊 主委我們台股這個持續一直收低啊因為油價持續很高嘛油價甚至於有人估到說要破120有人說170 有人說180這個東西 這一句話對不對啦我請問潘主委啊"},{"start":5794.096,"end":5814.525,"text":"每一個戰爭沒有停止的話 股市就對不對 這就對不對我想這次影響全球不是只有台灣的原因我想大家都非常非常的明瞭這很清晰啊就是說是主要因為這個戰爭影響周邊這個供油的穩定我想這個大家非常非常清楚至於說"},{"start":5815.545,"end":5841.634,"text":"這樣的時間有多久影響有多大那各自去解讀各自去判斷所以這個市場訊息匯集到市場上進行反應我想這個大概就是全球都是一樣的這個原因已經非常清楚不是說有些什麼大家不知道的原因只是大家預料的我覺得你這句話你同意不同意只要每一個戰爭不止的話股市得不停這句話同不同意這個其實這句話本來就很複雜"},{"start":5844.255,"end":5871.117,"text":"就是像比如過去我們比如說美伊的戰爭其實並沒有停止但是股市本來就有漲有跌啊就是並不是說這件事一定就是往下跌所以從過去這兩禮拜來兩三禮拜各位都看到了各種消息面對影響預期產生的結果就是不同那主委我問你齁那這個外資賣超了7000億啊請問一下央行啦這7000億跑去哪裡啊會出國外嗎還是說趴在國內"},{"start":5873.311,"end":5880.446,"text":"依據我們現在目前的規定外資匯進來國內投資股票當他在賣完股票之後就是會匯出去"},{"start":5882.315,"end":5905.706,"text":"他不能夠繼續趴在這裡啊他會有時間趴就是還是暫時有部分會暫時但是陸陸續續都還是會出去所以七千多億全部出去了嗎七千多億全部出去了嗎大部分都在過去這一個月就是說三月以來的賣超的部分目前至少部分還陸陸續續會這個是造成台幣最近一直變的原因是不是"},{"start":5907.266,"end":5935.304,"text":"對這是最主要台幣在外匯市場上面就是這個需求美元的需求大於供給最主要的一個因素你們有沒有進場調解是有沒有進場調解供需失衡比較大的時候我們會進場調解先有失衡嗎在過去幾天有幾天有出現這樣的一個情況所以前幾天你們有進場有總裁在上次就是禮拜四的那個禮監事會後的記者會也有對外有這樣的一個所以可見的你們心目中還是有一條"},{"start":5936.525,"end":5939.787,"text":"總裁還有我們央行的立場都是很清楚我們沒有所謂的一個防線"},{"start":5953.235,"end":5972.281,"text":"沒辦法知道未來美元指數它會走到哪邊去會有多強多弱這要看全球的國際金融市場的變化才能來看我想總裁也一再都有對外說明過沒有這個所謂的防線表面沒有啦 心裡有啦我這就要同意吧"},{"start":5973.675,"end":5988.382,"text":"心裡有啊 爸你要進場幹嘛你還要去啊完全尊重市場你還要去啊你心裡一定有嘛我們心裡最關注的應該就是供需的失衡加上波動太大供需明顯失衡的事件這個時候我們要解決的最主要的一個關鍵你同意我講的吧"},{"start":5992.318,"end":6017.79,"text":"比方說還是幹綠碼對不對其實我比較同意總裁跟局長講的啦我比較同意那個局長跟總裁所以你不同意我講的沒有 我覺得他們講的比較符合實際那委員講的是你自己的覺得32就是心理防線嘛看不見的隱形那條線就在那裡對不對 就出現了嘛"},{"start":6019.206,"end":6028.48,"text":"賓果嘛就出現了嘛32我覺得再差一點就32.5啦大概大概不會跌破32.5嘛是不是市長要說什麼"},{"start":6032.779,"end":6055.333,"text":"我想這還是要看國際金融機制你剛才說你千集六戶盤呢有去調集 那時候是幾塊錢不一定 大概就是外資集中匯出比較大的時候這個我想我們會定期就是講你一定記得很清楚 你是操作的 你是操盤手 你一定知道啊幾塊錢的時候你們進場的"},{"start":6056.975,"end":6066.403,"text":"沒有特定說幾塊錢就是當天的市場的一個大概幾塊錢那天是幾塊錢我想過去這幾天大概台幣的價格大概在31.5到32之間對嘛所以就是我講的對啊主委真的有說瞎話"},{"start":6073.028,"end":6095.853,"text":"還有同意我講的你要同意我講的啦其實我還是比較贊成就是央行他本於職權做了很多業務上面的這些的作為我想這個跟委員自己的認知那當然委員可以自己有自己的認知啦我想這部分是還是尊重沒有不是隨便認知啦我就是觀察這樣看這樣想這樣想結果就是這樣嘛就是進場的時候就31.5到32這樣來最後一個問題請教主委喔"},{"start":6100.954,"end":6116.205,"text":"那個黃金存摺喔是不是一定要送貨我真的覺得 是不是黃金存摺啊這部分我沒有沒辦法立刻回答我看請那個局長可以跟您做個簡單的回答好 局長來"},{"start":6118.178,"end":6135.089,"text":"這是屬於金管會是要的金管會嗎銀行跟我們申請黃金存摺業務的部分他們會去做相關的避險但這個避險的對等的工具是不是就是實體黃金這個我們並沒有特別的規定因為現在有人跟我分令的"},{"start":6136.459,"end":6158.064,"text":"他說他要去存摺 他要存黃金 買黃金的存摺因為他不太賣 原因就是他們沒有現貨所以你如果沒有現貨 因為電不到現貨所以他不要賣 那你們這個 這個是怎麼樣的事根據 我查了一下 根據你們的辦法 他要有現貨才能賣喔對吧 局長對吧"},{"start":6159.169,"end":6181.962,"text":"但是銀行他在實務商的操作過程裡面如果說有跟客戶約定這個黃金存摺到時候要對領的是新台幣的話那他就不會刻意去存這個黃金的現貨來讓客戶來領因為現貨通常都會到銀樓去買所以銀行最主要是把它當成是一個金融商品在銷售給他的客戶那你這樣子等於銀樓賣空賣空喔"},{"start":6182.782,"end":6194.21,"text":"你只要有黃金存在就真的有黃金才能夠賣啊不然你是賣假的嗎他是把它當成是一個金融商品"},{"start":6195.475,"end":6221.813,"text":"可是還是要東西啊不然你現在等於說我存了比如說我買了黃金存著就發現沒有現貨你是騙我我被你這個樣子它是鎖定那個價格也就是說當他在跟客戶說明的時候就是說到時候可能他也會用現貨來交割但他也可以用這個貨幣來交割所以它最主要是一個投資的金融商如果客戶不要了客戶就說我最好那種感覺我要實體黃金"},{"start":6223.479,"end":6246.25,"text":"你要給我啊是不是這樣是不是 局長是不是 我就問你是不是這個部分還是要回歸到說他契約上是怎麼設計的因為通常一般民眾來做這個黃金存摺他可能是要保有這個黃金價格在漲的這個增值的利益所以他不見得說我到時候如果說黃金今天不要漲上去了他不見得要提領這個實體黃金"},{"start":6248.411,"end":6268.443,"text":"這個我今天清楚了所以銀行賣黃金存摺不一定有黃金沒有想到委員這個有關這個細節我會請銀行局準備一個完整的說明再給委員參考好吧謝謝好謝謝謝謝我們結束賴世保委員的質詢接下來請陳玉珍委員來"},{"start":6276.601,"end":6286.763,"text":"謝謝主席喔 有請這個主委喔 主委 因為事實上是保險局啦主委休息一下保險局請保險局王局長"},{"start":6292.509,"end":6316.096,"text":"局長今天想跟您探討一下這個酪牛強制保險的可行性這個評估這個金管會這個推動農業保險的過程中有扮演監理者和技術資源者的兩個角色那雖然這個農業的這個保險主要單位主要單位是農業部但是保險局有負責確保保險產品的事法性財務的這個"},{"start":6318.497,"end":6339.932,"text":"穩健性 還有媒合產檢業者參與的這個政策指導功能好 那您看一下這個落牛和 現在這個保險裡頭 下一頁落牛和乳牛的這個保險政策的差異乳牛現在是在今年的1月1號開始全面強制的保險就是由政府補助50%的保費農林井負擔925元一頭和這個貸款救助這個全面掛鉤 就是"},{"start":6345.876,"end":6352.685,"text":"如果飼養乳瘤的話遇到什麼這個風險的話菩薩這一類的然後你會其實標準化定額是基礎3萬菩薩最高加碼到4.7萬那現在這個防腐率大概要到82.6%這個"},{"start":6363.639,"end":6379.781,"text":"滷牛的部分但漏牛的部分因為現在政府的政策還是自願是辦的啦沒有強制力然後也沒有什麼誘因嘛因為沒有標準化的補助那理賠機制也還沒有一個統一的標準所以現在幾乎沒有在補保這個漏牛的部分"},{"start":6380.482,"end":6396.636,"text":"因為我們金門地區大部分的這個金門地區若牛的飼養比例在全國在台澎金馬裡頭飼養比例是13%就是說這個事實上慢慢成為金門很可行的一個產業因為全國各地現在很多牧場都已經不開放"},{"start":6397.276,"end":6424.663,"text":"牧場了啦那金門就剛好是一個比較好的環境有比較寬闊的場所然後而且我們有那個金門高原汁的酒糟這個是由金酒提供給肉牛的飼養業者可以提供給酒糟做免費的這個等於是飼料然後接著而且這個酒糟肉牛吃的這個酒糟對牠的這個各方面就對牠肉質也是相當好所以是金門未來可以發展的一個產業但是金門"},{"start":6425.803,"end":6447.344,"text":"今天整體來講因為常常有時候農委會那邊農業部那邊常常會說大陸地區發生什麼牛結節或是什麼相關的什麼突發性的疫情就整個產業就是全部比如飼養鬧牛就全部完全禁止輸到台灣地區來就整個禁止輸來台灣所以就造成飼養這個鬧牛這個產業變得很不穩定"},{"start":6450.527,"end":6468.45,"text":"很不一定所以這時候我覺得這個保險機制的介入其實是有必要的那陸牛因為價值隨著牠生長階段牠的品種牠一直有波動那因為保險公司沒有辦法精算牠的保費那農民又覺得訂了理賠沒有辦法如果牠養到很後來"},{"start":6469.631,"end":6484.57,"text":"酒招牛 對像我們說和牛啊以後這個基本上現在台灣的這個弄牛就是現在很流行在外面吃那個就是您吃過吧那個那個鍋有沒有就是新鮮的 生鮮的局長有吃過嗎"},{"start":6487.734,"end":6488.335,"text":"主委有吃過吧"},{"start":6505.7,"end":6528.103,"text":"就是現在溫體牛是蠻普遍的這個產業在台灣現在是蠻蓬勃發展的金門沒有吃過金門沒有 我說全台灣你有去吃過吧台灣各地都有 你們都很少吃牛肉那你看台南各地都溫體牛很多溫體牛就是現在全台到處都是這個產業其實慢慢在蓬勃發展因為溫體牛就是火鍋這一類的蠻蓬勃發展"},{"start":6529.304,"end":6548.28,"text":"所以很多什麼標榜和牛啊是不是各地價格都蠻高的那這個肉牛產業我覺得基本是一個可以發展的這個產業那因為現在就是卡到說常常有時候會突然有一些疫情比如說牛結節或其他的這個疫情那這個造成的飼養的就是說如果有人要投入比較"},{"start":6548.94,"end":6570.715,"text":"有規模的投入的話會擔心嘛一頭牛有不少錢嘛那講幾百頭也是一損失就是在金門因為內需市場不大那養了後供應當地是如果要大規模市場只供應當地是不足一定要往台灣運嘛那台灣現在這個產業大概牧場是不容易有就慢慢沒有那所以事實上也很需要很需要這個溫體牛肉那金門之前養的話曾經有一陣子運到台灣來其實都還銷路不錯"},{"start":6575.478,"end":6576.643,"text":"那現在我們如果要擴大這個產業的話那現在就是"},{"start":6580.714,"end":6599.064,"text":"國內政府現在在做乳牛產業做的就是不錯因為有保障為了這個喝鮮奶所以有保障有一定的這個保險有一定的保險有相關的這個掛鉤那所以這個部分現在是不是這個部分可以請這個我們金管會這邊就協助跟農業部農業部因為這個農經保險嘛可以跟農經他有農經署嘛討論一下可以協助一下精算這個漏牛漏牛強制保險這個保費"},{"start":6607.849,"end":6619.991,"text":"比照乳牛嘛讓肉牛跟乳牛可以一樣享有這個商業保險的覆蓋那這個如果說有可行性的話對金門以後發展產業那業者願意過去投資的話機會會大一些啦就是說"},{"start":6621.158,"end":6640.196,"text":"如果萬一損失的話,不至於全盤都沒有嗎?全軍覆沒?各位跟我們報告,因為這個不管是乳牛保險或是以前那個豬隻保險,這都是農業部主政的但是如果說他需要我們商業保險的相關的協助的話,我們會來協助農委會"},{"start":6642.918,"end":6666.605,"text":"好那這個是你是希望由農金署來主動那個嗎還是說你們來找他們來開會來討論一下這是農業部主政的保險我知道那我也可以請農金署主動聯絡你們嘛你們一起來討論這個因為這個農金署它本身的相關的有一些強制因為保險局這邊對保險公司的這個相關的政策指導的力量會"},{"start":6667.405,"end":6687.768,"text":"商業保險的技術因為確實在過去我們很多地方我們跟農業部都做很多的合作那有需要的話委員來促成我們都會來那我也來跟農金署聯絡那農金署聯絡的話到時候你們是不是可以在一個月內或是多久內可以提供相關金額我會主動聯絡他們跟你們聯絡我們看他的需求"},{"start":6689.329,"end":6704.159,"text":"我現在提的需求是希望比照這個乳牛這個部分那你們做的部分只是找相關的這個精算這個應該是保險局這邊的工作吧那個技術上協助跟經驗協助應該是沒問題好好那多久內你也主動一點沒關係我也會幫忙聯絡了"},{"start":6706.077,"end":6732.706,"text":"對 就是說當然那個期限假設農業部非常非常清楚他的需求還有就是假設以委員這樣為前提的話我們就請保安局回去跟公會你先主動跟這個公會啦你們這邊就是公會嘛那農金屬這邊你們也可以聯絡我也會幫忙聯絡好不好我們雙管齊下對對 專對這個部分喔盡快是不是在現在是三月底了嘛看四月底五月底都可以給我們一個答案好不好至少有個初步我們要往前推啦"},{"start":6733.786,"end":6752.697,"text":"我想我們就先初步的一些的評估方式先提供給政策嘛主要還是政策問題嘛不一定是補助因為保險是有費率問題嘛他如果飼養這個產業他有一定的收益他也願意付一定的這個保費因為政治保險跟商業保險思維是很大的不同我知道我知道沒關係你們就從你們也可以從商業保險下去考慮啦好嗎"},{"start":6754.178,"end":6778.703,"text":"好 謝謝 那下一題就主委了這個虛擬資產專法這個部分我想金門可以扮演一定的角色這個有關金融創新 離島的區塊鏈的這個部分來 您看為什麼金門是一個很適合的一個測試地就是說這跟之前我們前一陣子上次我們不是有提嗎很多東西金門 因為金門這個做了一個這個"},{"start":6780.863,"end":6797.272,"text":"一個比較小的島然後比較容易實驗的這個地區那只要政策願意開放的話作為這個虛擬資產專法的前瞻實驗區利用專法現在草案裡頭所提到的創新實驗機制每一個版本都有第四條就是可以讓我們金門發揮這個區域的優勢那尋找我們金門這個經濟的這個新動人那你看就是突破穩定幣銀行壟斷的這個區域實驗您看一下現在就是說"},{"start":6808.517,"end":6829.706,"text":"這個專法傾向就是讓金融機構發行穩定幣吧然後如果在金門可以適行非銀行機構穩定幣發行的這個許可測試穩定幣在我們離島在金門地區旅遊免稅購物跨境外匯撥轉中的效率安全性這個可以做一個實驗然後測試在和法定幣這個連結虧損上面實務的問題"},{"start":6833.848,"end":6861.251,"text":"驗證非銀行機構在受控環境下可以兼顧創新和系統性風險這個防範這個部分這個部分就跟我這個上個星期我們也提到這個在金門地區對這個電子支付這個部分我想也可以做相關的這個連結那金門一直我一直覺得金門是一個很適合政府做一個實驗的這個地方地方小然後任何的這個"},{"start":6862.952,"end":6889.558,"text":"測試都很容易 容易看出有沒有錯誤然後萬一有什麼風險事實上也很容易防範的這個這個地區尤其對於這個跨部會這個聯防測試的跨境洗錢的這個聯防實驗這個部分是不是你可以考慮一下這個我們推動這個專法裡頭把我們金門定為一個金融創新試驗場地的可行性評估這個是不是可以考慮一下"},{"start":6890.018,"end":6913.844,"text":"其實剛剛委員提到我們專法的草案第四條裡面我們在所有的金融相關的法令都有放這一條就是說你雖然不是VASP但是你如果有很好的想法你可以來申請創新實驗我想這個應該是沒有地區之別那任何人都可以來申請比如說假設廠商或是業者認為金門有特別的好的地方他就提出申請"},{"start":6914.384,"end":6917.785,"text":"這個創新實驗是對所有都是一樣嗎?那假設業者自己覺得在金門有特別他可以按照這條例來提出實驗的申請"},{"start":6933.47,"end":6952.857,"text":"你們可以給我一個這個也做一個報告給我嗎因為是不是是不是可能會遇到什麼問題啊或者是政策上可能有什麼樣的支持啊那這樣子我們可以按照你這個報告我們來看有沒有相關的願意來支援我們過去在整個整個創新實驗的一些的流程一些條件標準給委員參考好好謝謝您謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":6960.956,"end":6983.622,"text":"現在請李燕秀李燕秀理委員質詢感謝主席我是不是可以請主委先休息一下請負稅署財政部底下三位同仁負稅署跟所得稅組蘇副組長胡副組長"},{"start":6999.522,"end":7019.557,"text":"兩位組長 虛擬貨幣的定性跟營業稅相關的爭議是我在今天我們今天討論這個服務專法我要特別提出來因為這個專法其實在國際上歐盟跟日本其實新加坡其實早就已經上路了那我們其實比較慢但是我覺得這件事情無論在法律上的定位跟定性我覺得都要"},{"start":7020.237,"end":7042.267,"text":"討論得更清楚後續在監管跟課稅的部分我覺得跟國際上一致我們才能夠推動得更順利但是在按照過去複稅署的說法加密貨幣它其實沒有證券性所以過去你們是傾向把比特幣或者是一代幣定位成它是一個商品"},{"start":7042.967,"end":7047.37,"text":"他是虛擬商品所以那我就要請問一下組長就說如果一般民眾經常性的買賣這個買賣他的買賣金額超過所謂營業稅的起徵點未來到底是不是需要課徵營業稅這是我第一個問題可不可以回應我"},{"start":7064.78,"end":7089.053,"text":"報告委員 誠如甘海委員有講的就是買賣貨幣到底有沒有涉及到證券或非證券那其實我們在之前109年就已經有核視它如果是屬於證券性質的一個虛擬資產的話它原則上應該要課徵我們證交稅那目前的話就是千分之一的證交稅是有在核課的如果有發行這些去做交易的話但是你現在 因為之前負稅署的說法是它並沒有證券性質喔"},{"start":7089.853,"end":7104.524,"text":"有兩類就是有證券性質跟非證券性質的那證券性質的本來在109年我們就已經有合適相關的規定了然後另外非證券性質的部分的話我們目前其實就是在收集國際的資料那剛才委員也有很清楚的說到就是"},{"start":7105.204,"end":7112.931,"text":"歐盟那邊可能有一些是不用課的那有一些有部分也是要課的所以我們目前其實都有在看這些國際的趨勢現在沒有定案目前還沒有因為我們也是在看專法的那我的問題因為今天時間很短就是說民眾對於這件事情的疑慮其實是可以理解的包括金融投資行為卻要被當"},{"start":7125.742,"end":7142.609,"text":"一般我們認為是金融投資行為但是卻要被認為說好像是一個買賣所以在一般民眾感覺這是不合理的這跟一般的個人財產交易免徵營業稅的原則是互相衝突的你理解我的意思是就是說"},{"start":7145.311,"end":7164.971,"text":"跟過去傳統消費的加值或加工行為事實上是不一樣的歐盟跟日本新加坡規定加密貨幣是免徵營業稅的部分針對這部分當然是我們負稅署財政部的權責所以未來其實對於你們立法的方向"},{"start":7166.392,"end":7182.126,"text":"到底是遵循國際上你們的看法是如何我覺得外界也都在關注這樣的一個重點那這個部分你們會不會有自己的時間表出來什麼時候會有最後的決定我們目前是會看專法這邊的一些相關的一個方向"},{"start":7182.586,"end":7206.819,"text":"就是跟他就是整個管理的政策如果說能夠很確定的話那我們整個後面的我們嚴厲我們課稅的一個規定就會比較周全那成如剛才委員有講到的的確在定性方面的話他可能因為我們很快可能我們的版本因為我不知道行政院版本什麼時候會進來但是我們版本通過如果還沒有的話我就我個人就會認為這個修法就會沒有行政院的意見這就"},{"start":7208.3,"end":7232.368,"text":"了解 不太周全會緊挪密鼓的趕快去處理這一塊好 一個月之內好不好好 那第二個我要詢問的就是現在境內外的付稅套利的跟資金外流的部分我就要請教你們就是包括剛才有其他委員提到包括境內平台買賣虛擬貨幣的稅制的差別就是說我們一般在境外的部分買賣有海外的所得我們有100萬的不用申報"},{"start":7233.988,"end":7258.662,"text":"那750萬就是說有獲利的話是不用去繳稅是免稅的狀態但是在境內的平台呢我們計算它所得最高有累計稅率40%所以在這邊未來我們如何去處理這一塊因為這個變相的變成鼓勵民眾把資金移向海外的交易平台那我們在設立這樣一個法案的時候我覺得"},{"start":7260.263,"end":7273.192,"text":"在討論上我覺得就會造成國內稅基的流失因為大家變成說在境外投資反而我們免稅的金額是比較高的所以你們的意見到底有什麼樣的解方"},{"start":7275.558,"end":7294.59,"text":"目前的確是在財產的一個交易所得的話如果是登記境內的財產它是會算我們國內的所得然後境外的就會用海外所得那現在就是你們有發現這樣的問題對不對?是的確會有一些制度上適用是不一樣的那我們就沒有課到稅啦"},{"start":7297.232,"end":7310.25,"text":"課稅這個部分是後續我們課稅資料收集的問題啦當然因為如果他有一些交易的話金額有超過我們當然還是會議規定要去課稅的境外這一塊所以還沒有想法"},{"start":7311.467,"end":7331.754,"text":"目前我們一樣是配合這個專法後續一些資料收集你們這個專法我早就已經聽到行政院其實你們內部已經有版本了但是這麼重要的事情你們居然都還不知道要怎麼辦我覺得可以聽聽我們金管和彭主委的意見跟後續怎麼去做處理比較好我們當然希望我們這資產管理法"},{"start":7334.215,"end":7354.995,"text":"留在台灣然後所有業者我們管理業者但是我們覺得政府還是應該可以課到應該有的稅這是很重要的精神嗎主委你可不可以回應我一下謝謝委員的關心我想說確實稅制本身會影響資金的流動我想這個大家都知道那剛剛講委員提到這個東西應該不是只有虛擬資產的問題"},{"start":7357.337,"end":7379.924,"text":"應該是我們所有的境內境外投資本來有他政策上的考慮所以這我們尊重財政部的專業只是說我們現在這個其實不是只有財政部的專業其實虛擬資產的監理是我們從洗錢防治法納管走向專法我們全面都控管我們不要任何漏洞政府都可以看得到管得到還不只是課稅的問題"},{"start":7382.785,"end":7400.094,"text":"所以我想聽聽這雖然是財政部的這夜館的內容但是我也想聽聽主委您的意見如果站在我們的立場我還是要強調數位有專攻租稅的當時會設計這樣一定有他的考慮這個我們講的只是純粹是我們從我們的角度來思考"},{"start":7400.914,"end":7420.59,"text":"那我們當然希望說我們納管這個業者希望說能夠給國人提供更好的這樣一個條件那我也希望說盡量把這個交易能夠站在我們的同意的標準來納管是 所以境內平台也可以有討論調整的空間嘛讓我們更有優勢嘛 國內的平台更有優勢嘛"},{"start":7422.231,"end":7450.469,"text":"對其實財政部當時會這樣規定我在猜一定有他自己專業非常多的考量經過充分的討論那當然這新的事務我想這部分我們還是會跟主委我的時間不多但是我最後您自己主動上來我就希望說財政部在這一塊要多聽聽跟金管會多溝通我們希望就是說未來的整個資金流動從洗錢方針法到全面的納管就是在國內重要的精神那怎麼樣留住所有的錢我們政府都可以"},{"start":7451.189,"end":7464.213,"text":"看得到管得到然後也留住這個平台多使用我們國內的平台這是我重要的主張另外就是說再鎖的對不起這跟後續財政部還是比較有關係虛擬資產的認定方式有三種一個是換幣級的換成或者換成法幣級課第三種是出金才課"},{"start":7473.475,"end":7494.335,"text":"但是現在在市場上比較常見的交易就是比特幣換成美金或者是比特幣換成泰幣甚至是比特幣換成USDT所以這樣的操作方式在財政部現行的解釋之下到底算不算是實現所得它的所得到底是怎麼去做計算"},{"start":7495.95,"end":7509.976,"text":"在精神上你們的看法是什麼因為很多人就是他把它換成就是到最後把比特幣換成以太幣或者比特幣或以太幣換成USDT那他就放在那個錢包裡面"},{"start":7511.312,"end":7531.346,"text":"賺他超過那個所得 就是說到底說要課稅比如說也超過七百萬 七百五十萬還是七百萬七百五十萬 照理說要課稅但是他就放在海外消費 他就放在他海外的錢包裡面消費所以你也課不到這一筆 那這個部分後續怎麼去做處理這到底算不算實現所得 就是說"},{"start":7533.697,"end":7547.029,"text":"他賺的錢他可能超過750萬照理說超過750萬是要課稅的要申報要課稅但他就放在海外錢包裡面那就直接拿那個錢包在海外消費那這個到底算不算所得"},{"start":7550.162,"end":7564.872,"text":"如果消費生產500萬那又變成是免稅你懂這個都有一個漏洞嘛所以這個部分怎麼去做處理報告委員我只是舉這幾種樣態提醒你們要思考清楚這個未來就是委員有提到就是說這個"},{"start":7566.293,"end":7582.474,"text":"幣別之間的轉換還有出金等等的這些課所以其實遇到現在的所得稅法一些規定它其實只要有一些交易行為只要有一個transaction它其實應該都會要繼續計算所得的跟它後面賺到所得以後去做花費那可能是另外一件"},{"start":7583.195,"end":7598.03,"text":"我今天质询到现在16秒我觉得很多事情财政部都还没有想得很清楚都没有办法回应我的答案我都不知道行政院什么时候我希望一个月之后你们可以有你们的想法出来后面我们在讨论这个法案的时候才有机会更周全"},{"start":7598.47,"end":7620.41,"text":"好最後10秒鐘我請問一下主委就是說現在虛擬貨幣的監管有一個漏洞就是很多的幣圈老師跟貸單群組其實這個是有問題的看起來其實是不是虛擬資產交易其實我們有要求不得有意圖影響價格的操作行為但是這些貸圈幣圈的老師跟貸單的群組其實"},{"start":7623.212,"end":7633.652,"text":"他們都有在說應該怎麼買或怎麼賣或者應該什麼時候應該進場等等所以金管會未來是不是會把虛擬資產分析跟顧問的行為納入管理"},{"start":7634.554,"end":7660.916,"text":"我想這個有關交易行為我們再過於其他的相對應的金融商品已經開始納管比如對網紅我們也有一些規範那未來在金融消費者保護法還有就是我們對這些專業的資格條件裡面從業人員的資格條件也會有訂定相關的專法這個未來在一個有秩序的市場應該都是會受到合理的規範好 謝謝主委的回應 謝謝好 謝謝"},{"start":7676.707,"end":7679.189,"text":"接下來我們請李坤澄委員謝謝主席我們請彭主委請彭主委委員好來主委好辛苦了謝謝"},{"start":7703.638,"end":7722.83,"text":"因為本來就是上禮拜有專報的時候有提到了就是說你們會把這個虛擬資產服務法送到這個立法院來不過我們今天稍微先排了這一個在野黨的這個版本然後那我先請教一下就是說現在本土的是有這個八家的這一個交易所"},{"start":7725.026,"end":7748.771,"text":"八家業者,不全是交易所八家業者,八家業者你們讓他取得許可嘛對不對登記制那現在就是還想講說因為你本土人你有來申請這個許可那你們也審查過了讓他有取得這個許可那但是海外的部分大家還是在講說海外的部分現在有幾家來跟我們申請"},{"start":7751.625,"end":7765.525,"text":"過去我想有幾家來詢問怎麼落地來設分支機構那這部分我們也都是因為未來整個這個專法通過以後那條文裡面就直接講了有兩條路徑"},{"start":7766.787,"end":7781.738,"text":"一個就是說你可以已經國外的機構你可以來台灣設分支機構就是分公司另外也可以你直接投資台灣成立一個本國法律設立的新的機構這兩條路都可以就跟我們一般金融市場是一樣"},{"start":7782.738,"end":7797.951,"text":"我的意思是說在專法通過之後他們就一定要來申請嘛海外的一定要來申請嗎對一定要來申請當然這是國際的通歷那如果沒有來申請呢因為現在他們不用來申請嘛對不對然後也是活得很好嘛沒有就是說假設"},{"start":7798.812,"end":7814.901,"text":"今天來就像我們現在很多各位常聽到所謂地下保單那就是沒有在台灣有據點呈現沒有在台灣取得合法的業務在台灣招攬業務的行為這個就是違法的規則可是那不太一樣因為其實海外的其實他們是蠻大的一個集團"},{"start":7818.203,"end":7835.245,"text":"他們不是說像你講的這個所謂的地下交易啦那我們很多也是跟他們有交易那現在問題在於說他們來這邊目前來申請有遇到什麼樣的困難嗎因為這個困難以後你專訪通過他們還是要進來啊對當然這個這部分的每一家公司的狀況不太一樣"},{"start":7836.286,"end":7853.563,"text":"那比如說他今天來申請設立的話其實我覺得在法規上是沒有障礙當然比如說現階段我們包括你是如果是境外的投資還有我們外國人投資條例的規定這裡面有一些比如說特許業務的範圍這些都是那再來還有一些比如說未來像這些"},{"start":7854.904,"end":7871.558,"text":"資金來源這是從哪裡來這些都是有其他法律在規範那其他都是一些專業的考量就是說你有沒有能力在台灣如何去展業這部分我們現在未來會越來越周延這些規定所以聽起來是資金來源是比較有問題嗎這是其中之一而已"},{"start":7872.759,"end":7900.124,"text":"那好那所以就是說如果專法通過之後他們就一定要來申請嘛所以你講那些問題他們也都必須要做處理嘛如果說你要在台灣實體的執行業務比如說就像前陣子比如說有委員關心說你沒有經過同意怎麼會在台灣的公車車體上看到你的廣告那基本上這個就是一個非常非常明顯或者說你竟然在台灣招攬業務人員在幫你做這些行銷這些問題大概就是這個很很具體的違反這些規定還有就是說"},{"start":7901.044,"end":7919.773,"text":"你公然的跟我們很多的金融機構或是其他機構有營業的行為我想這部分大概就很明確了好那再請教一下其實我上禮拜有問過啦現在就是說那個穩定幣啦那穩定幣現在就是說因為有一些外商應該是台商跟外商他們在這一個"},{"start":7920.424,"end":7935.045,"text":"在交易的時候可能外商或是外國企業會給我們台商穩定幣那現在就是說台商拿到穩定幣之後現在在台灣的部分銀行的接受度是怎麼樣他們怎麼處理這些穩定幣"},{"start":7936.887,"end":7960.68,"text":"現在的話就是說我們現在這也是我們關注到因為銀行是大家信認度高的一個金融機構如果未來比如說你的這些虛擬資產的保管能夠在銀行某種程度等於說你可以把它存在我的銀行那當然對我的安全性也可以當然對於持有者而言他可以存在自己的錢包也可以請銀行來做比如信託或來做保管的管理"},{"start":7961.34,"end":7973.653,"text":"我們就推動那個事辦大概有應該有19家銀行有興趣我們現在有5家正在做事辦中事辦多久了事辦有一陣子了事辦到現在有遇到什麼樣的問題嗎其實我覺得"},{"start":7976.616,"end":7993.562,"text":"基礎上當然每個人所採用的方式不一樣啦我們希望能夠整合出一個比較好的方法比較有效率的方式來做不過這個是很重要讓金融業能夠跟整個虛擬資產業做一個整合結合還有取得社會信任非常重要的一個工作我們會來加速來處理"},{"start":7996.964,"end":8011.833,"text":"現在是事辦那你們有指引嗎或是說規範嗎還是說全部要等到專法通過之後再來處理這一塊事辦跟這個是兩個獨立的那我想局長有沒有什麼補充現在事辦的情形"},{"start":8012.849,"end":8025.538,"text":"有跟委員報告那這個部分我們也有參考香港HKMA的相關指引那我們會請銀行公會就事辦的部分我們會在六個月之內訂出指引出來那所以你說事辦多久啦"},{"start":8027.52,"end":8045.488,"text":"試辦的期程原則上是一年從哪時候開始的?應該大概半年前就陸陸續續開始可是那個指引還沒有定出來?還沒有定出來那怎麼會試辦沒有指引出來?現在有指引出來之後再試辦嗎?"},{"start":8046.869,"end":8071.044,"text":"通常就是業務先行之後我們覺得說必須要再進一步相關的去做相關的規管那我們也參考國外的一些那這半年來有遇到一些什麼問題嗎因為他們事辦的這個就是業務的內容比較簡單而且那個就是接受保管的這個這個幣呢是相對來講那個量是有限縮的所以風險是可控都是美元嗎"},{"start":8074.145,"end":8079.647,"text":"那有公股銀行嗎?目前沒有公股銀行公股銀行是比較保守嗎?"},{"start":8091.707,"end":8109.398,"text":"客人經營的業務的選擇啦剛剛委員有提到就是說我們事辦就是希望透過事辦跟業者一起來觀察你的情況他會比所謂的指引規定會先行才要事辦當我們指引出來以後就直接開辦了所以這個本來就是這個過程所以指引說大概哪時候會出來大概六個月之內"},{"start":8110.82,"end":8136.697,"text":"從現在算六個月之內嗎?對那再請教一下因為這一檔的版本比較不一樣就是說這個衍生性的這個商品那現在金管會是站在比較一個保守的一個立場嗎?是不是?不是,比較穩健,其實我們也不保守就是說我們覺得現階段我想各位都知道我們一般的衍生商品都已經很不容易理解了"},{"start":8136.997,"end":8152.959,"text":"那再來就以這個波動這麼大的這些的產品還有就是大家對它熟悉度不高的產品直接就開放到衍生性商品我想這個以台灣現在的監理環境我們也不認為現在馬上做就很適當但是呢當然"},{"start":8154.321,"end":8179.472,"text":"我剛剛也提到了就是假設業者有這個能力國際上也有很明確的規範再來有做好很好的封控我想這部分本來就是一個我們已經預留在一個彈性裡面所以說其實我們已經對外講過很多次這其實上本來就是我們隨時都可以來跟進可是這個在國外應該是算是蠻成熟的一個產品其實也不是成熟只是有人在做這些事情當然這個東西牽涉到槓桿倍數是非常高"},{"start":8183.294,"end":8208.212,"text":"那就是說目前在專法上面是沒有把這一部分把它規範在裡面沒有我們不是明文我們就定一個其他金主管居然同意的虛擬資產業務嘛那這部分其實更廣更有彈性當然就是說現在其實這個大家的目的都相同只是說我們現在希望利用這個專法告訴各位就是說我們希望是一個比較穩健的方式來執行這樣的一個市場的開放"},{"start":8209.219,"end":8225.284,"text":"那所以說就在野黨他們所提出來就是說希望能夠開放一些衍生性的金融商品的話就目前按照主委所講的不會應該是說列在執法裡面去做處理嗎還是怎麼樣執法裡面我剛講過就是說剛剛那個那個"},{"start":8226.915,"end":8245.835,"text":"報告這兩個版本的條文裡面他是直接在那個款裡面加一項就衍生性商品的服務經營這個叫做這個虛擬資產金融商那我想說這部分呢其實我們剛才提過了其實我們開始立法的時候大家已經注意到了那我們用其他金主管機關我們不明列這個東西其實上但是函啊"},{"start":8246.515,"end":8261.57,"text":"當然啦 因為未來我們在很多公開的場合也講說我們從來都沒有說不願意做我們只是想說希望我們用進階那這個東西呢 給予主管機關比較大的監理的彈性來做這件事情我想也是保障我們的交易人啦好 最後再問 現在這個虛擬資產它能夠列入這個我們企業的財報嗎"},{"start":8268.021,"end":8278.276,"text":"現在我們請我們的會員基金會我們會計界在三月底會提出他們未來整個列帳的相關的一些的指引出來那方向是怎麼樣有嗎 請"},{"start":8282.88,"end":8302.526,"text":"報告委員這個部分會計會已經有類似委外一個研究那三月底四月初大家會出來會有一個指引給企業來使用所以是朝向是說可以列入這一個企業財報裡面嗎對就是用什麼樣的會計項目怎麼樣來入賬反正會去把它列進去就對了但是是要怎麼列的方法"},{"start":8303.126,"end":8324.847,"text":"怎麼去做處理就對了對 其實應該講我想在國際上已經有一些可以來參考那國內因為我們的比較特殊的財快環境必須要經過我們公佈一些財快準則這樣方式來揭露好 謝謝謝謝主委 謝謝我們主席好 謝謝委員謝謝現在結束我們李昆城委員質詢接下來請羅明財委員"},{"start":8332.304,"end":8357.841,"text":"主席各位 朱烈熙官員大家好主席可不可以請彭主委 請OTC簡董事長央行的兩位局長謝局長跟蔡局長好 委員長彭主委 你有沒有去過杜拜沒有"},{"start":8360.356,"end":8387.6,"text":"杜拜他在這幾年把虛擬資產以及很多的財富管理通通加大幅度讓杜拜平地起高樓成一個新的交易中心他的雄心壯志值不值得台灣的學習"},{"start":8389.181,"end":8414.765,"text":"其實杜拜從他過去開始有少量的石油他知道他未來的發展會受到局限開始全力發展境外的各種中心我覺得他們的本質上他有他非常非常令人刮目相看的成績那我想這個心理自然只是其中之一而已香港的金融中心地位現在逐年的下降"},{"start":8416.397,"end":8432.986,"text":"你會不會想把台灣打造成一個全世界華人的財富管理中心讓台灣成為全世界虛擬資產的交易中心"},{"start":8435.13,"end":8459.09,"text":"跟委員說明就是說我想我們在很多場合我們希望台灣成為在亞洲的資產管理中心之一這樣的一個計畫我們持續在推動這裡面包括很多比如說我們所謂的資產管理假設未來虛擬資產也是成為一個合規的資產項目的話那自然會隨著這個趨勢然後也納入到我們的整個的"},{"start":8459.75,"end":8484.898,"text":"未來發展規劃項目所以你的意思是說現在需你資產來交易不合規囉現在我們講說就跟全世界一樣就是說這個資產某種程度我剛才在報告裡提到各國都朝向專法讓它合規化來監管的這個模式來前進台灣也是這樣那這樣當然更有助於我們在政策上推動的一個基礎啦"},{"start":8487.424,"end":8505.717,"text":"那請央行那幾個數據也請諸位了解一下我們的外匯存底現在在6000多億的美金全世界有哪幾個國家外匯存底裡面是有這個虛擬資產當作他的儲備的"},{"start":8509.76,"end":8539.077,"text":"是 各位報告 我想大部分的主要國家應該都還沒有把這個比特幣等這些資產放入他的外匯存底因為這個可能在他的準備裡面會有但是外匯存底的定義裡面可能比較不容易美國的國庫署啊他們國家資產裡面有沒有虛擬貨幣有 他們應該是之前沒收得到的但是這個也不會是放在外匯存底裡面 是"},{"start":8539.738,"end":8556.712,"text":"好 那請問美國有沒有相關虛擬貨幣的交易已經正式展開您是指央行跟外面的還是虛擬貨幣啊 在股市買賣來 請簡董事長好了美國是去年還前年有發了幾檔虛擬貨幣的ETF"},{"start":8567.27,"end":8590.36,"text":"據我所知ETF在...虛擬貨幣的ETF在美國加拿大或其他有一些國家是有在掛牌新加坡掛了沒我沒有確定的不過我想應該要查一下才能確定請問台灣的第一檔有關虛擬貨幣的資產"},{"start":8594.192,"end":8620.048,"text":"第一個上市 上櫃買中心大概是什麼時候我們櫃買中心還沒有虛擬資產的ETF掛牌有沒有相關的個股是有關虛擬貨幣的報告委員我們目前沒有這樣子的掛牌公司目前沒有嗎那你希望台灣第一個看得到是什麼時候"},{"start":8623.089,"end":8641.867,"text":"向委員報告 我想這個我們在虛擬資產的服務法 相關的法規制度這些交易都必須要健全 然後我們才可能再去衍生這個ETF相關的產品來掛牌我想這個應該是有順序的先後好 那央行我們回一下"},{"start":8643.991,"end":8661.333,"text":"你會不會擔心以台幣計價的穩定幣及相關的合規的虛擬資產成為大多數人生活中的一小部分的時候央行的地位會受到影響"},{"start":8663.459,"end":8677.765,"text":"我想我們之前有分析過啦穩定幣目前來看的話它也是一種資產的一個就是一個配置它不會就對我們的金融體系來講並不會有目前來觀察是不會有太大的一個影響所以你不會怕它"},{"start":8678.9,"end":8700.043,"text":"就我們的銀行體系然後跟民眾持有這個穩定幣的部分那假設我們有在目前的法規的規範之下我認為這個不會是一個會變成就是對我們的這個金融體系造成一個危險所以不怕他會不會面對他會不會面對他接受他照顧他愛護他"},{"start":8703.447,"end":8730.247,"text":"我想穩定幣的部分就央行的觀點就銀行的觀點我想這個部分應該跟這個是不太一樣我們央行的觀點一直都是著重在穩定幣是否視為貨幣他跟M2之間的一個替代的一個問題那我們之前都有分析過事實上這個在整個金融體系裡面在整個銀行體系裡面對貨幣的定義裡面影響並不是很大那這是我們央行所關注的部分那至於穩定幣"},{"start":8731.728,"end":8745.874,"text":"會不會如何健全發展關注他我想這個不是我們央行的職權我們央行關注的是他對M2的一個影響那現在央行發行的數字貨幣什麼時候開始正式上市"},{"start":8749.004,"end":8768.704,"text":"我們現在國內的電子資助體系也相當的多元便利所以方形綠貼的CPTC這部分我們沒有急迫性但是我們現在有把CPTC的雛形平台轉換成數位金流平台然後支援政府發各種的數位券或數位幣"},{"start":8769.545,"end":8788.555,"text":"那目前是有支援客家委員會的客家幣那未來我們現在還要跟運動部的運動幣還有那個衛福部的健康幣在洽談合作之中 謝謝好 謝謝 那請那個彭主委台灣究竟是一個對虛擬資產 虛擬貨幣是比較正面支持的態度呢"},{"start":8794.54,"end":8820.618,"text":"或者根本你就是反對他們進來反對這個產業的發展當然不是跟文說明其實我們這個產業已經在了我們從過去這麼多年來從剛才講的比如說他用聲明登記到現在其實我們現在市場已經有8家業者在運作對現在在的情況是大家可能不清楚本來有26家"},{"start":8822.589,"end":8834.894,"text":"導到現在像你剛剛講的幾家應該講說我們篩選這些適合在台灣發展的對嘛 你就用篩選我是用民間懂的話叫做到倒啊那為什麼會不見為什麼會變少"},{"start":8841.451,"end":8859.949,"text":"就是變成你對這個產業裡面有積極的輔導嗎?其實我們輔導也要看對象就像比如過去很多過去在聲明制的因為當時的是因為反洗錢的這樣的規範所以很多發生了非常多的弊端我想社會都看到了"},{"start":8860.529,"end":8881.477,"text":"透過我們的管制讓這個市場逐步的邁入秩序而且穩健這是政府該做的事並不是說我們去把誰給弄到無法經營我想就是因為我們希望留下的業者都能夠確實的遵守而且持續的讓市場更為健全所以這是一個挑戰當然可是也是一個機會"},{"start":8883.138,"end":8897.591,"text":"你有沒有算過我們的這些上市公司很多它因為新台幣的上上下下對這個企業來講它有些成本以及風險非常大"},{"start":8899.591,"end":8924.607,"text":"如果有一個新台幣計價做發行依靠的新台幣的穩定幣那每個人在接單的時候在國際上都可以確認他的支出他的成本他是可以算得出來的這個單一千億要接不接我們馬上就可以鎖住"},{"start":8926.764,"end":8951.872,"text":"現在每一次都還經過銀行的換匯你知道包括保險公司相關的這些匯損一年大概損失有多少不一定都匯損有時候會有因為利率在波動中交易的費用沒有它本質上就是一個波動帳面上本來就有波動不見得都是損失"},{"start":8953.259,"end":8981.029,"text":"保險公司出去你每次都要有一些賄損準備啊那是外交準備金我們現在有訂了非常非常明確的規定那這部分那只是因應他的波動這個外交準備金是其中之一啊一年大概七八十億十年就七八百億還有很多的企業都不回來啊因為他放香港低稅戶還有他的操作也比較快"},{"start":8982.045,"end":9002.64,"text":"你如果有一個新台幣計價的穩定幣會出現什麼情況如果禮拜五就可以決定了啊禮拜六禮拜天銀行不上班很多事情他都可以交割嘛而且台灣現在一年放假放幾天"},{"start":9005.712,"end":9015.286,"text":"這個我沒有統計一百一十五一百一十六天所以企業存在很多的不確定性有個穩定幣馬上就可以決定啊所以請主委"},{"start":9021.328,"end":9047.403,"text":"你現在倒是保持一個開放的態度還是非常保守又穩健的態度如果我們真的是非常保守就不會提這個專法也不會跟社會溝通這麼久的時間廣納各方的意見我想今天這個這個答詢就是因為在這樣一個開放的架構之下才有的這樣的這場的答詢那主委你歡迎不歡迎國外的"},{"start":9049.765,"end":9064.216,"text":"這個虛擬貨幣交易所他們來台灣投資我們現在我們的法規是中性的我們對國內外都一視同仁中性是我們說很多次我們監理就是謹慎或審慎友好的態度面對虛擬資產服務業"},{"start":9066.122,"end":9083.472,"text":"外商可以來台灣投資當然法規已經很明確了未來的版本裡面都寫了你另外一個最近油價狂飆現在一桶石油世界的一桶價格是多少現在不同的報價有從90幾到110塊之間115 漲很多我們周邊的銀行也都去年都賺很多"},{"start":9092.637,"end":9093.979,"text":"然後會不會趁機ATM手續會調高啊"},{"start":9099.107,"end":9120.115,"text":"對民眾的一些費用會調高這當然不會啦我想這些東西它是一高度監管行業它也有肩負社會回饋的責任我想這部分不會有委員說會把我們那個費用把它調高的問題所以金融周邊產品不會趁機趁火打擊當然不會不會調高啦當然不會OK 好 謝謝謝謝 謝謝委員好"},{"start":9123.137,"end":9146.6,"text":"我們結束羅明財委員的質詢 接下來請顏寬恒委員謝謝主席 各位律師官員大家好 主席有請金管會彭主委請彭主委委員好 主委好 主委"},{"start":9148.457,"end":9163.082,"text":"虛擬資產服務法草案儘管會早在114年6月份就已經送到行政院行政院遲遲不將法案送到立法院審議你們有向行政院催促這個進度嗎行政院有沒有跟你們透露說什麼時候會送來立法院"},{"start":9163.53,"end":9182.165,"text":"我想這部分其實行政院沒有說支持不審因為這個畢竟是一個新的法律透過兩位政委在過去開了非常多的會跟各個單位做協商那我們也開了很多很多的公聽會那這個案子應該在行政院所有的審查程序已經結束應該是提報院會以後應該很快就送到大院來了"},{"start":9183.204,"end":9196.976,"text":"從去年的六月我們還是拜託你們跟行政院催促一下這個資產虛擬資產服務法不能等這邊請教主委現在國際上非常關注的RWA這個就是實體資產"},{"start":9199.838,"end":9224.592,"text":"代幣化像是債券基金房地產的輸入化還有實體資產代幣化這些從實驗階段已經走向主流的一個金融體系最新的數據顯示如果不記錄穩定幣這個代幣化的市場規模已經突破250億美元相較於去年一年前大概是4倍"},{"start":9225.632,"end":9246.517,"text":"一年前是64億美元那今天審查版本有提到創新實驗那我認為說如果監管過於保守那可能就會錯失推動我國成為亞洲資產管理中心的一個好機會那監管會目前的RWA代幣化小組已經有初步的報告未來是否已經預留彈性空間讓虛擬資產不只是買賣投資還能夠與實體"},{"start":9251.759,"end":9266.677,"text":"產業結合那未來金管會是否會主動引導銀行與合規的VSP合作推動資產上鏈的試點計畫而不是讓台灣的一個金融創新停留在實驗室的階段"},{"start":9268.62,"end":9289.537,"text":"是 當然我應該提到其實RWA全世界大概現在應該是交易大概300億美元左右剛剛跟委員講的差不多那但相較於比如說虛擬資產3.3兆美元還是比較小那比如說我們我們的穩定幣大概也有3000多億的這樣一個所以RWA在過去呢大概還是在等於說在剛開始"},{"start":9292.006,"end":9318.855,"text":"這個發展的階段不過大家有看好他的潛力啦齁那其實我們在過去呢其實一直很持續的去針對RWF怎麼樣落地在台灣有非常非常多的討論那我們也最近也都按照我們現在過去的實驗的結果呢逐步在讓他落地的過程當中我想如果有有相關的決議我們會很快的跟社會做報告接著請教主委齁現在的這個"},{"start":9320.92,"end":9338.373,"text":"詐騙集團的犯罪手法早就不是單純的電話詐騙或者是虛擬貨幣的交易它結合了自建的平台、地下會對、即時通訊還有人頭賬戶形成一整套去中心化"},{"start":9339.173,"end":9362.313,"text":"那這些平台不需要對外公開也不需要上架到這個交易所更不需要真正的一個區塊鏈技術就可以模擬出虛擬資產的一個流通效果讓資金在帳面上移動但是實際上卻透過車手跟地下管道完成交付不只是洗錢啦它涉及的詐騙還有更高風險的一個犯罪"},{"start":9363.354,"end":9384.591,"text":"那未來一旦專法通過 經法會是否能夠針對這些未許可的影子平台建立更快速的一個行政查緝跟刑事移送機制不是像現在都只被動的來等待民眾的報案能夠更有力道來執行這一些查緝"},{"start":9385.307,"end":9411.227,"text":"其實我們從過去打炸專法裡面就把VASP納入到我們的這些執行的範圍這是我們專法裡面特別有一條來強化這一塊我們也會有一個執法不過剛剛委員提到就是說自從我們開始採用登記制以後所有這些東西你只要沒有經過許可去做這件事情的時候大家都違法我想過去我們的檢警調其實已經查獲主動查獲非常非常多這樣的案例我想"},{"start":9412.989,"end":9426.201,"text":"這個是會要透過跨部會來協作啦我們在這方面呢我們會透過立法約束那其他如果你沒有合規的部分除了透過民眾檢舉以外主動偵辦我想這個各部會都已經在做"},{"start":9429.579,"end":9444.591,"text":"這個我想虛擬資產的一個去中心化跨境特性它已經成為國內詐騙跟洗錢犯罪的最佳的護盾那犯罪集團利用境外平台作為這個資金的中轉站他就是看準的說我們的這個監管"},{"start":9446.432,"end":9468.953,"text":"監管權力難以跨越國境根據今天審查的草案我們已經納入了國際合作跟行政處分的框架面對那些刻意躲在監管寬鬆的地區甚至於說明知是詐騙洗錢仍然提供服務的這些境外平台我想我們不能只有這種"},{"start":9470.635,"end":9487.987,"text":"柔性的請求那我們應該是要有實質的一個斷根手段的一個做法所以我想說針對這個我想要請教主委說願不願意針對刻意服務台灣詐騙與洗錢的這些境外評改它是已經是針對"},{"start":9489.508,"end":9504.715,"text":"就是刻意在服務這些詐騙集團 洗錢集團的一個境外平台那監管會建議具體的一個法律機制例如譬如說限制他對台灣的一個金流往返要求金融機構或者是支付系統全面阻斷"},{"start":9505.635,"end":9526.94,"text":"全面阻斷那甚至於強制退出台灣市場的一個強硬措施主委可以這樣子當然任何非法的平台我剛剛講過以現在的法規它就是違法我們就已經按照中華民國法律就要嚴格查緝但是它如果要在境外的部分我剛剛講過我們一部法律能夠有更多的控制節點的話"},{"start":9528.42,"end":9552.696,"text":"對於像這樣的一個不法行為的掌控就會更高比如說剛剛委員提到假設我們已經有很明確的黑名單 灰名單這部分就我們受管轄的這些虛擬資產或是金融業者那我們就可以建立相當的防控機制這些都是未來我們必須要強化來努力的部分就是說我們在這部專法已經設計更多的"},{"start":9553.456,"end":9559.964,"text":"那個掌控點那這個未來當然是對這個東西的保護當然會更周延啦這也是我們立法很重要的目的"},{"start":9561.121,"end":9590.094,"text":"好的 我再請教主委就是未來專法的落實就是說強制要求所有與台灣有業務往來的平台這些境外平台必須要全面落實我們一個轉帳規則如果說在法律上不願意提供清楚的交易身份資料我們就直接視為說是一個非法營運由金管會這邊來採取斷絕金流或者是撤銷許可的一些強硬行政措施"},{"start":9591.089,"end":9607.377,"text":"我是要求金管會一定要強硬對 當然就我剛才講說違法的事情這一定就是沒有什麼沒有什麼這個空間啦剛才委員提到假設他境外假設他今天是一個友誼的我們假設境內的這些Vets包括金融機構要跟他做往來的時候"},{"start":9607.777,"end":9622.988,"text":"他已經被列入黑名單或是甚至可疑的灰名單這時候我們就可以對國內這些業者進行管理對不對他就不可以跟他做往來這其實上就像我們現在規定我們現在金融業不可以跟沒有跟我們合規的交易所進行往來是一樣的"},{"start":9624.289,"end":9645.627,"text":"所以請主委一定要在這個保護被害人這個辛苦血汗前不被詐騙那打擊犯罪的這些惡意犯罪這個洗錢集團的這樣子的一個信念那我們一定要用強硬的手段來做後續這些事情好不好是當然是好的謝謝謝謝委員謝謝我們結束嚴寬委員的質詢接下來請林思敏委員"},{"start":9663.985,"end":9688.337,"text":"謝謝主席 主席請我們金管會彭主委請彭主委委員好 主委早 主委那個虛擬貨幣的領域已經長期處在一個空窗期的階段所以我們虛擬資產服務法院版到底什麼時候可以提出啊我剛報告過因為院理審查完畢應該"},{"start":9689.861,"end":9695.823,"text":"我想請問這部專法如何能做到適得其所在健全市場秩序的同時避免說我們的監理過當而扼殺了台灣本土的金融科技創新"},{"start":9714.093,"end":9735.736,"text":"如何讓他適得其所第一個適得其所第一個先要給他一個明確的身份跟地位我想這是所有在市場上要取得社會信任非常重要的就等於說我法規上給他明確的法律定位以及業務範圍這樣可以阻卻非法跟合法之間的分際這是一個第一步"},{"start":9736.317,"end":9758.639,"text":"那再來就是我們規範的合理化以及有前瞻性比如說我們現在規範合理未來有發展的空間我想這一部法律應該都是大概用這樣的方式來前進OK很好我想主委觀念非常正確我想虛擬資產不是未來也是而是現在進行式全球市場的規模動輒上兆美元"},{"start":9759.58,"end":9776.526,"text":"那我國的投資人參與程度也非常的高但是目前的狀況我們看到是零散的監理法制落後風險外溢虛擬資產市場雖然目前經歷那個Terraluna的崩跌以及FTS的倒閉兩大震盪"},{"start":9777.446,"end":9790.835,"text":"但截至今日為止就3月23號全球加密貨幣的市值大概還有2.4兆美元其中比特幣市值約1.4兆美元市佔率大概56.15%穩定幣的市值大概3122億美元也大概佔12.94%"},{"start":9799.921,"end":9823.21,"text":"那麼根據2021年IMF與金融時報的數據全球的市值總共仍然穩守在1兆美元以上那麼台灣在FTS的事件中的損失規模高達新台幣600億元全球排名第七所以可見我們台灣潛在的投資人非常的多"},{"start":9824.17,"end":9851.853,"text":"那麼用戶的規模也非常的多那我請問這個 主委我們有做過調查嗎我們大概推估啊現在我們台灣只有虛擬貨幣的人大概有多少人其實我們現在是就一般民眾我們沒有辦法知道他這樣那我們只能知道我們現在已經納管就沒有推估我們沒有推估我們現在納管的業者裡面我們有請他提供他營業的資料我們大概推估現在就是他大概開戶數大概100萬左右剛才跟委員說明過了"},{"start":9852.554,"end":9853.776,"text":"那裡面還有100萬人開戶就是他的客戶數差不多將近100萬左右"},{"start":9859.537,"end":9884.144,"text":"市場規模呢市場規模的話就相對部分我們還在跟他講我們如果有在統計因為現在有個工會在所以未來有了法規之後我們就會詳細知道這些數據當然當然我們現在就在統計了啦這個部分既然有工會我想其實根據就是說我們這個推估就是媒體的報導推估數值我們的市場規模大概在800億到1500億美金"},{"start":9887.085,"end":9915.038,"text":"就大概有台幣2.5兆到4.5兆所以這一塊呢確實需要我們專法來加以這個去做監管所以我想請教主委我們在監理的密度方面根據歐盟MICA的精神是應該針對不同的規模與業務性質進行分級所以金管會認為應該採取比例原則與兩體財醫還是比照銀行法採行高度嚴格的全面牌照制"},{"start":9916.098,"end":9936.776,"text":"其實剛剛委員講我們這次做的跟過去比較大的不同就是我們是採用就是所謂的這個不同業別不同執照的申請方式那跟剛剛委員提到比如說銀行它是一個大執照的概念但是我們這裡比如說我們總共大概有七個業態由你自己來決定來申請可以重複也可以單獨"},{"start":9937.927,"end":9954.758,"text":"是 所以對於這種小規模的虛擬資產服務商我們不會一律要求比照銀行法這樣的一個資本額營業保證監理 營業控制度讓他有一個創新的空間嘛對 他可以比如說就像我們有一家只做移轉商他就只有取得這樣的一個內容"},{"start":9955.939,"end":9968.151,"text":"所以我本席的提案然後看這個主委你站不站身我的提案版本中增設簡易登記類的VASPER允許小規模的業者以報備制來納管主委你認為這樣是否能夠兼顧那個產業的創新啊"},{"start":9973.195,"end":9989.602,"text":"這其實我們現在來看的話就是因為我們現在假設啦相較於我們過去對金融機構的監理我們的要求可以分幾種不同等級剛才委員提到像銀行它的設立就是100億這是非常非常高的門檻像我們的保險公司大概20億左右"},{"start":9990.242,"end":10015.829,"text":"那比如我們證券的話一個差不多4億一個業別那相較之下我們未來對虛擬資產的這些的要求應該是屬於比較偏向證券業這樣的一個規模不會用一個剛才講的因為畢竟經營的範圍經營的內容跟生產跟生活還是很大不同我的提案聽起來是會沒有就是說如果用報備制的話有可能會整個我們用核准制會產生一個這個所謂的差異"},{"start":10016.829,"end":10029.636,"text":"我們現在從這個分不同的業別就已經有這個精神那我們還是希望說這個產業還是要經過我們用一個事前許可的方式用報備畢竟是在過去我們的執照上很少用報備制來做"},{"start":10031.567,"end":10054.395,"text":"主委我們關於穩定幣的分類與監理我們有境外落地的一個挑戰我想這個穩定幣的幣值它佔虛擬貨幣市場的交易量目前看起來超過80%而且它已經具有支付工具的潛力目前的市場主流是USDT和USDC這種境外發行的法幣這個背對型的穩定幣"},{"start":10056.736,"end":10082.268,"text":"所以請問對於我們境外穩定幣的實質落地條件是否應該區分全背對型與演算法型的不同風險其實現在我們法規應該不會開放演算型過去很多出事的大概就演算型那我們還是開放以法幣作為直接擔保抵押就不會接受演算型的這個穩定幣"},{"start":10084.369,"end":10108.969,"text":"好那另外關於去中心化協議啊這個DeFi的與境內影響性原則虛擬資產都是來自境外嘛目前去中心化這個的金融的協議的DeFi的盛行請問如果要求境外平台必須在台設立法人並取得許可這在操作面上是否可能存在盲點其實這個問題如果說各位"},{"start":10110.931,"end":10129.876,"text":"其實委員在您的版本也有提到這個概念就是我們希望說境外的在台灣你一定要有據點的呈現再來就是我們現在境外的資產境外的各式各樣的虛擬資產如果你要在台灣的合法的VASB上面上架的話你必須要經過我的同意這樣的話以確保否則現在"},{"start":10131.363,"end":10147.549,"text":"等於國際上虛擬資產五花八門各種它沒有實體對就是比較那些可能比如說空氣避一大堆這種東西我們基於保護交易人的那個角度我們希望能夠經過我們同意才在國內的虛擬資產業者的交易平台上出現對所以未來我們如何認定"},{"start":10150.711,"end":10166.252,"text":"認定這些沒有實體透過智能合約運作這些DeFi或者不打算在台設點卻大量有台灣用戶的這些境外的巨頭啊軍管會如何認定其實質營運人啊要如何去認定"},{"start":10168.294,"end":10190.799,"text":"他在境外他一定有提供一個產品或是一個服務這個服務要接近我們的交易人他必須透過我們的VASP業者那VASP業就是我剛才講的一個掌控點剛才有跟委員報告就是說我們面對境外的話我們國內有更多我們監管的掌控點的話就可以進行這樣的一個規範跟約束這樣也是維持市場公平的這個"},{"start":10192.139,"end":10216.4,"text":"整個產品跟有序監理這個我的版本中我有引入境內影響性原則只要對本國市場產生重大影響即應納入這個監理的一個邊界現在的那個草案就是這樣就是這樣嘛就是往這個草案來做像委員版本說你沒有就是境外你沒有加入工會不能營業這本來就是這樣是好"},{"start":10217,"end":10231.286,"text":"我想虛擬資產涉及支付稅務洗錢增辦與技術研發絕非金管會一個部門可以獨立完成所以本席的提案版本認為必須跨部會的來做這個做等一下"},{"start":10236.516,"end":10263.521,"text":"就跨部會的做協作模式的法制化來邀集央行、法務部、財政部、數位部等單位跨部會的協作模式才能避免多頭馬車或權責不明而主管金官應在執法中明定各部會的執掌例如央行負責穩定幣對貨幣政策的衝擊評估數位部負責技術安全的認證所以主委你是否支持這種跨部會協議機制的明文化"},{"start":10264.481,"end":10289.524,"text":"其實剛剛委員講的就是這個假設完整的分化會是這樣做但是實際上基於監理的整合更比較像說應該就像我們草案裡面提到穩定幣是由財政部來主政但是相關的法規我們要匯商央行同意的方式等於說是我們共管的方式那假設這樣的像剛剛委員的建議這樣的一個管理架構比較少見但是跨部會協作"},{"start":10291.366,"end":10305.745,"text":"這個絕對要做但是怎麼在一部法律裡面誰主要負責誰負責協助一起同意那我想這個是我們在未來立法像我們的草案裡面對於穩定幣就非常明確就是要經過跟央行跟金管會之間的協作這樣"},{"start":10306.266,"end":10322.119,"text":"所以基本上這個精神是支持的這本來就應該要這樣草案裡面法條裡面要怎麼寫 對對對對這個要再做研議啦其實謝謝 我們也會一樣會會去做這件事情好 以上好 謝謝謝謝結束林思敏委員的質詢接下來請劉淑冰委員"},{"start":10334.343,"end":10336.944,"text":"好 謝謝主席有請彭主委主委好主委早我們今年已經看到各國就相繼通過了穩定幣的法案那您也在今年有說了就是說今年下半年的預計要開放金融機構要發行穩定幣那想要問的是台幣的穩定幣是一定會發行的嗎如果在開放的這樣金融機構發行的"},{"start":10363.311,"end":10375.194,"text":"那它的需求有這麼大嗎?尤其是我們知道目前我國是一個國際經貿的大國那大部分的資產資金的兌換都是用美元來計價那現在USDD、泰德幣跟USDC都已經是變得主流的話那台灣的銀行機構在發行台幣的穩定幣到底有多少?有那個必要還有需求規模大概是多少?"},{"start":10390.96,"end":10418.407,"text":"謝謝委員剛剛提到就是說其實我們未來什麼時候會有由我們本地發行穩定幣那要等立法通過以後我們相關的穩定幣發行的辦法出來就可以來申請受理那受理審核還有一段時間我想說這部分大概會按照法制進行是剛剛委員講的確實是一個事實就是說未來假設以穩定幣按照我們現在的規定裡面"},{"start":10419.907,"end":10444.754,"text":"那個草案裡面是有兩個一個就是以他的指名叫法定貨幣法定貨幣當然包括台幣跟外幣這個部分都是可以的那至於說剛剛委員關心說那未來台幣穩定幣會不會有人發行這要交給市場市場誰會來發行他有提這個需求但是我們在做制度設計一定會想說那未來這個發行有可能的所謂的場景跟用途在哪裡"},{"start":10445.934,"end":10461.153,"text":"剛剛委員提到假設是國際貿易支付的角度我想大家都知道那比如說我們市場上已經有強勢的幣別像美元就是國際支付的強勢的幣別那我想這部分大概在支付上面台幣上所能扮演的角色是比較有限"},{"start":10462.074,"end":10478.807,"text":"但是另外一個就是說假設是境內的部分的使用或是說假設未來我們也開放RWA以台幣計價的這些商品上鏈交易的話那勢必就要用台幣計價的貨幣單位來交易就有可能它的場景"},{"start":10479.788,"end":10495.685,"text":"但還就是說我們會看起來好像是還在一個規劃當中預期他們要去評估就對了看起來這個這樣的一個規模或是他實際的需求性實際上在台幣穩定幣的需求是少的對就是說這我們交給市場好對"},{"start":10498.407,"end":10505.392,"text":"所以看起來沒有什麼解決的問題但是我們現在在想到的是我們再往下看因為在穩定幣的這個如果普及的話如何助長民主很痛恨的這樣的一個詐騙問題我們看到現在呢有賴著配這些的藉口支付的這種貨幣也是這種數位貨幣這樣的一個成型但是如果他們還"},{"start":10520.903,"end":10526.707,"text":"穩定病在台灣普及化的話對詐騙集團來說他等於是省下購入到人頭賬戶的高昂成本還有與賬戶被凍結的時候資金被圈存的危險只要把被害人他的錢引到穩定 換成穩定病的而且成立的零門檻又不具名的這個冷錢包的話可以看一下左邊這個冷錢包然後再把它打入這樣這個混閉器當中就可以輕鬆的阻斷橫跡到海外去那這樣的話"},{"start":10549.924,"end":10559.271,"text":"就會造成說他們詐騙集團的這樣的成本非常降低那這樣的話請問金管會你有什麼樣的措施要去防避防避這樣的一個問題"},{"start":10565.896,"end":10581.428,"text":"我們現在這些的幣跟這些的交易都在市場上已經存在了那現在我們是假設今天討論這部專法如果設立以後我們有更有這樣的一個基礎跟法源來強化這個東西一定會對這個東西是有正面的幫助"},{"start":10582.609,"end":10601.374,"text":"先做個說明本主委再來就是說冷錢包的狀況跟現在的情況跟你是一個開放的是不是不一樣的我說接下來就是我們在這部專法裡面本來就是我剛才跟幾位委員報告過了比如說我們透過更多合規業者的管控他的交易對手比如說"},{"start":10602.114,"end":10630.109,"text":"其實未來如果你要透過我們合規交易你必須做好完整的KYC你必須這個實名制完全知道你這個人是誰然後接下來你會去哪裡這件事情可是冷錢包的部分是沒有連上網的這樣是一個封閉的體系如果從交易所的錢匯到冷錢包去這樣子根本就沒辦法的只有他自己知道的那些的這個這樣的密碼等等的尤其這樣又到混閉器當中是根本沒辦法這樣看起來是非常大的漏洞啊"},{"start":10631.296,"end":10656.822,"text":"我想說這部分我們會從整個監管角度畢竟這些大概都是我們面臨到的挑戰這部分我們也會跟我們的相關的檢調單位跟技術團隊來解決這個問題比如說我們針對未來這個客戶誰跟我做交易比如發現我那邊誰到最後這個我那邊交給誰這部分都是實名制的話我覺得這個追蹤的軌跡就會比以前好很多"},{"start":10657.162,"end":10683.519,"text":"沒有但是你如果已經到交易所之後後面的相關的部分真的那個冷錢包的問題根本就沒辦法解決因為它本身就是一個不具名的而且要跟連線上網去了解的這部分看起來主委您現在已經在有點是在重複在回答這一部分其實沒有得到一個結果希望說金管會這邊一定要在未來在虛擬資產服務法當中的設定當中要跟要針對這樣的一個實質上的問題要好好去解決"},{"start":10685.52,"end":10705.625,"text":"對 這個技術性的問題呢 我想說我們會 既然委員提到 我們會接下來請我們的相關單位去好好去處理我再跟委員做個回覆好 那大概說多久會出來嗎 有沒有規劃的話這個技術上的問題 如何解決混閉器的問題我想說我們會請我們技術單位呢 告訴委員該怎麼做 我再跟委員說明"},{"start":10706.564,"end":10709.225,"text":"好 那個時間就希望盡快了大概兩個月之內可以可以 好那我們繼續往下看現在台灣作為全球第七大的中差區在上次的這個FTS的這個交易事件當中是這麼大那如果現在如果我們的虛擬資產服務法它通過之後"},{"start":10728.015,"end":10742.71,"text":"如果這樣子國外的他們這個幣安等海外交易所不配我們的房價跟洗錢的規範然後甚至也沒有在台灣在落地申請這個牌照那請問一下金管會有什麼具體措施來因應呢"},{"start":10743.544,"end":10761.152,"text":"我想剛剛委員提到這個問題任何一個國家的法律基本上大部分都是以自己的轄區為主你也很難去直接除了有國際合作跟國際條約我想這是大家共同面對到在跨國境的虛擬資產交易大家必須未來為什麼要強化國際合作非常重要"},{"start":10761.932,"end":10776.747,"text":"那至於說剛才委員提到的概念就是說假設我的國人他們都是透過我們合法的交易所去交易的話那比如說其他境外的公司他就沒辦法直接接觸到我們的投資人的話那中間這個節點我們就可以做這樣管理比如說"},{"start":10777.668,"end":10795.346,"text":"我剛剛跟委員講就是說其實我們現在很多的這些比如說虛擬資產業如果你不是合規的話我們就要求我們的金融機構不可以跟你做往來我就不會入金這本來就是一個很很重要的監理法規的要求這個就是我們納管的一個好處這是也是其中一個做法"},{"start":10795.906,"end":10817.834,"text":"主委這個問題在如果金管會沒有現在的監管或跟金融機構把他設立的他們這個交易的方式的話其實他現在就已經是跟在網路上面他就實際可以在他們的交易所裡面這樣去做這樣的交易那你這樣我提出來的方式不是等於說我們的虛擬資產服務法如果真的制定出來也沒辦法去沒有辦法去監管到他們他可以跳過你們的這樣方式"},{"start":10821.455,"end":10849.097,"text":"剛剛委員報告就說他今天經過我們國人他最容易接近還是我們合規的這種機構還就是合規的這交易所那這部分我們就加強管控我們一定是這樣來做的嘛這應該是這樣有效的措施讓他運役到台灣來落腳來發行譬如說假設我們今天我們能夠給予監管以後大部分的我想民眾大概會比較相信政府監管的業者"},{"start":10849.497,"end":10868.33,"text":"那這樣我們就達到這個目的畢竟說你自己要在網路上跟一個境外的交易你必須承擔更多的風險我想這部分剛才跟委員報告過全世界我們在面對虛擬資產是共同的大家都有共同的問題不是說台灣特別厲害可以解決這些問題但是這個因為大家都共同的問題"},{"start":10869.811,"end":10890.904,"text":"國際合作解決但是我們必須先做好自己本國內的這些監管法規規範當然當然現在現在大家的努力就包括我們剛剛民眾黨所提的版本都希望這個制度更健全對所以說我想大家目標都是一致那我請問一下新加坡像是香港綠大社會是怎麼處理法針對像是讓它落地請問一下剛剛說的像碧安他們在海外交易"},{"start":10891.924,"end":10907.711,"text":"這樣子有沒有落地來申請牌照比如說委員剛剛提到那家公司他也不是在全世界大部分國家都有落地他大概是在一些部分國家有落地很多國家對不同的地商之間有不同的規範他也不是說全部都地方都有設計像剛才講說因為這個部分呢"},{"start":10911.633,"end":10921.984,"text":"因為它牽涉到各個地方的規定還有就是說我們對獨特的法規的要求所以你說的交易的合作這個國際合作就還是沒有一個好像是空殼子"},{"start":10923.309,"end":10946.22,"text":"這方式啊 因為如果你說怎麼樣去增加國際合作事實上是不太清楚的啊就像比如說我們犯罪的國際合作就是就是一個很重要的比如說為什麼一個罪犯會從其他國家被引渡到我這邊回來一定雙方有個協議否則他在海外我是我也沒辦法對他行使我的治權嘛這很正常對不對但是假設是一個大家共同的罪犯 大家透過協定就會被"},{"start":10947.301,"end":10974.175,"text":"對 可是您說的是國際合作竟然是在做犯罪的主防而不是在說讓他們願意落地來去在那個交易我們有一個開放你可以來台灣申請子公司或是分公司都可以這個東西就會進入到我納管中去那就納管 可是他如果現在這種你就是他如果你沒有讓他願意下來落地那他就沒辦法直接的面對我們台灣的客戶也沒辦法跟我們金融機構做這個比較便利的往來他就增加交易的很大的困擾"},{"start":10975.275,"end":10990.502,"text":"好 謝謝我們結束我們結束劉淑冰委員的質詢接下來王世堅王世堅王世堅委員不在接下來林楚英林楚英林楚英委員不在接下來曾振謙曾振謙曾振謙委員不在接下來請洪孟凱委員好 主席謝謝麻煩請我們監管會捧主委"},{"start":11004.608,"end":11012.494,"text":"主委好我想今天本席特別還是要過來再一次的來質詢以及救教其實最主要真的還是看到說虛擬資產服務法"},{"start":11014.622,"end":11036.132,"text":"你們去年三月的時候已經有提出公告並且六月的時候已經報行政院那也將近快一年的時間我剛剛聽到有幾位委員在質詢就請教是說那到底什麼時候院版可以出來那跟目前為止的進度因為你其實開宗明義本期剛剛也把你們金管會的版本看完了你的前提寫得非常好啊"},{"start":11036.832,"end":11055.18,"text":"你也講是說歐盟日本韓國等世界先進國家也都有針對相關的虛擬資產貨幣來去做一個相關的一個法律專法這第一所以我們要跟上嘛第二健全就是說健全整個金融體系嘛不要說再變成是各自為政或說無法可管的狀況對好"},{"start":11056.701,"end":11079.2,"text":"那其實現在大家在看的是說那我們的態度跟積極度來主委給你再說明一下因為這也是外界大家都看的就是說不要說只是放了然後到最後行政院就卡著那到底是哪一個部會在卡沒有沒有其實跟委員報告啦就是說實際上我們6月27號送進去接下來就是行政院就非常非常密集的審查中間經過兩位政務委員協調各個部會"},{"start":11083.262,"end":11105.289,"text":"現在主要有問題的是在哪一個部分現在沒有問題了現在我剛才講過行政院已經完成所有的審查程序現在就是要報行政院會通過這個程序就會送進大院來所以這個會期就可以出來囉我沒辦法代行政院回答不過我接收到的程序跟訊息應該會在很快的時間就會送過來了每個禮拜四都開行政院會嘛"},{"start":11106.009,"end":11133.984,"text":"對所以本席也才納悶的地方是說為什麼連今天我們的召委要排審這相關法令其實照理講院版如果說可以出來的話其實下委就可以來主條啊對不是嗎正常我也希望說院版來一起討論啊但是就是說大家可能有其他的比如說希望這個所以外界都在看因為我剛剛有聽到一個我比較訝異的地方是講是說你回答其中委員是講說還不確定時間所以我只是想要確認這個會期我們能不能有實質的討論"},{"start":11134.864,"end":11159.611,"text":"因為我是金管會我沒辦法幫行政院回答他但是你是主管機關所以你應該是已經了解我現在不是在套你話我只是說了解你如果說該溝通要溝通要積極push嘛現在全部都已經溝通完畢沒有問題純粹行政程序而已了所以行政程序那這樣子本期就認為是說你應該是可以最快的速度禮拜四說不定行政院會就可以來排案了嗎我們希望說能夠盡快的排"},{"start":11160.351,"end":11183.478,"text":"為什麼我們會認為說這個東西那麼重要其實最主要在於是過去到現在我們都還是看到我們譬如說虛擬資產貨幣有廣告行銷的一個部分跨境業者的一個納管穩定貨幣的發行或者是退場機制等等問題都還是需要用專法來去做一個釐清所以不要讓這個市場長期在灰色地帶裡面操作嘛我就講啊"},{"start":11184.258,"end":11202.495,"text":"我其實很納悶就是說我們看那個新聞啊有什麼藝人 什麼大戶一次被賠掉了幾億幾億元我們心裡想就是說這個東西現在在台灣是怎樣人人都可以買得到了是不是當然現在來講 只有順暢主委你自己有沒有投資啊我沒有投資是"},{"start":11204.686,"end":11220.367,"text":"我現在沒有投資所以我說那現在是人人都會買因為其實你看到新聞或是相關畫面其實很多人大家都在討論這個虛擬貨幣因為以前我在學校的時候我有指導學生去研究過這個東西我知道怎麼購買當然知道怎麼運作"},{"start":11222.928,"end":11241.912,"text":"對,所以現在確實如果你要買的話我們是可以買,我們有交易所我們現在有合規的交易所在所以你可以透過這個方式去購買是所以我還是再釐清一下就是說在這個專法的一個部分因為我看到是說有我們幾位委員版本那我們真的期待是說願版能夠進出的出來"},{"start":11243.293,"end":11262.67,"text":"其實大家的方向都很一致啦只是針對一些技術上的問題因為我們在提出這個草案的時候已經跟我們各個相關團體已經開過20場以上的公聽會其實大家共識度其實蠻高我也期待說假設未來我們院版出來以後還有各個委員一些版本讓他修得更好其實我們今天審查兩個版本其實很多的"},{"start":11264.032,"end":11284.794,"text":"內容其實都很好只是說立法技術上比如說這其實應該要放在執法規範比較有彈性就不用放在母法大概只是這個差別而已就大家其實都有共識度蠻高希望這個東西趕快能夠落地因為接下來一個重頭戲就是我們的執法趕快把它定好以後我們希望台灣能夠真的進入到完備的法治化這個大概是我們的目的啦"},{"start":11285.658,"end":11303.853,"text":"是,本期跟我們財政委員會委員一起共同來督促,也希望說金管會能夠加快腳步,好不好?沒問題,謝謝委員謝謝我們結束洪孟凱委員的質詢,我們今天登記發言的委員均已經完成詢答本會議做如下的決議,說明"},{"start":11308.403,"end":11332.637,"text":"說明詢答完畢委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資訊請相關部會於一周之內以書面答覆委員另要求期限者從期鎖定委員林楚一委員王世堅委員所提的書面質詢都會列入記錄刊登公報並請相關部會以書面答覆虛擬資產服務法等兩案另則其繼續審查我們現在"},{"start":11337.148,"end":11345.731,"text":"本會議議程已經進行完畢有不在的委員提補充書面質詢一併列入記錄刊登公報並請議事人員協助處理我們散會謝謝"},{"start":11360.342,"end":11360.523,"text":"蕃茄"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}