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廖青祥委員一人列席官員 內政部部長 劉世芳暨相關人員法務部參事 謝志明交通部公共運輸及監理司檢任暨政 王濟州國家住宅及都市更新中心董事長 花敬群主席 李昭吉委員博弈報告事項一 宣讀上次會議議事錄決定 確定二 邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況含上會期臨時提案辦理情形並備質詢報告事項及討論事項合併詢答"},{"start":1593.557,"end":1609.036,"text":"內政部部長劉世芳報告委員蘇巧慧等13人質詢由內政部部長劉世芳暨相關人員答覆說明委員李曾秀發言時行政官員均不被詢決定登記發言委員處不在場者外其餘均已發言完畢詢答結束"},{"start":1610.197,"end":1629.684,"text":"二、委員王美惠、廖先祥、高金素梅、羅志強、邱志偉所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報主席宣告委員會尊重韓國瑜院長的協商結論李真秀女士可以上台發言但法治國家的法律不能用協商所以我們也尊重行政院行政院官員可以不必回答也不必提供資料"},{"start":1630.444,"end":1659.593,"text":"二 書面質詢暨未及答覆部分 請相關機關除了李珍秀女士以外於一週內另以書面答覆並複製本會討論事項 審查委員林俊憲等二十三人擬據市區道路條例第二十三條條文修正常案案決議討論事項所列議案 令定期繼續審查 宣讀完畢好 請問各位委員 上次會議議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏您議議是要 你要提出書面還是要你要提書面還是做什麼"},{"start":1660.868,"end":1675.216,"text":"好,請說明,那時間三分鐘違憲好不好?針對會議新聞嗎?沒關係,如果你們要發言的話,等一下看是...那個李委員發言完之後,如果說現場有異議的話,再請大家發言,謝謝"},{"start":1681.684,"end":1700.352,"text":"好 謝謝我今天非常憤怒也必須非常嚴正的指出115年3月16日內政委員會的議事爭議是民進黨公然踐踏國會制度踐踏中華民國的民主法制主席 各位同仁今天民進黨公然閹割立法委員職權"},{"start":1704.013,"end":1728.321,"text":"立法委員依法行使執行權行政官員得上台備詢這是立法院最基本最核心的憲政職權但民進黨劉世芳的弟子李柏毅直接宣布官員可以不用上台不用回答不用提供資料請問這算什麼會議這還是立法院嗎或者已經變成民進黨的記者會現場本席依法就任重擔監督"},{"start":1729.441,"end":1756.744,"text":"結果整個國會監督機制被直接閹割更荒謬的是這場會議中輪值的民進黨召委為了討好賴政府刻意稱本席為李貞秀女士民進黨上上下下只會搞一些無恥沒品的小把戲民生議題不用過了嗎國家大事不用做了嗎韓國瑜院長在3月11號的政黨協商講得非常清楚以宣誓就職的委員其職權應與尊重但"},{"start":1758.385,"end":1784.841,"text":"民進黨直接無視推翻踐踏院會結論就問一般民眾可以站在這邊提案投票修法嗎那政府不要再掩耳盜鈴自欺欺人了請正視本席合法的立法委員身份儘早終止你們這場知法枉法的鬧劇民進黨暴力踐踏法治壓制異議封殺監督今天"},{"start":1785.521,"end":1808.392,"text":"不只是針對李珍秀 更是想對所有新住民發出訊號你們在國會的聲音可以被否定 可以被消失你們只配當二等公民嗎 該有的備詢沒有 該有的程序不存在如果這樣的會議還可以算數 那未來每一個交委是不是都可以選擇性的不讓官員回答 沒收委員 質詢權利"},{"start":1810.533,"end":1830.771,"text":"輪值交委違法操作議事架空立法院貪歡監督機制該次會議已經明確違反議事規則違反立法院職權行使法違反委員會組織法本席要嚴正譴責民進黨踐踏過會破壞權力分立原則妄想行政權駕臨"},{"start":1832.492,"end":1852.803,"text":"凌駕立法權把新住民當成政治鬥爭工具這樣的國會我們不能接受這樣的民主我們不能沉默3月16日人類證委員會會議程序重大違法委員權利遭受嚴重侵害議事記錄已失其正當性合法性因此本席正式提出該會議議事錄不應該被確認謝謝"},{"start":1859.278,"end":1860.999,"text":"首先我們現在是在確定議事錄不是任何講自己政見講自己理由的一個時間議事錄有沒有確務"},{"start":1888.251,"end":1912.319,"text":"上個禮拜李博義召委他所說的每一句話都是在那邊一似乎是沒有錯誤的但如果個別的人有個別的意見你可以去其他的地方你可以開記者會你可以什麼我們都尊重台灣是一個民主法治的一個國家但也要遵守我們立法院所有的規章跟規則"},{"start":1913.539,"end":1936.72,"text":"我們現在是在確定議事錄我要強調的一點是議事錄沒有錯吧我們也有錄音檔也有什麼議事錄是沒有錯的所以我覺得我們還是要尊重內政委員會我們從以前到現在你有不同的意見你可以發表我們都尊重但議事錄確實就是在那邊是沒有錯誤的"},{"start":1938.181,"end":1967.541,"text":"我覺得不管你是誰都要尊重立法院也要尊重我們內政委員會我們內政委員會從以前到現在我們就是理性討論的一個委員會而不是在這邊如果你自己有不同的意見你自己就要挑戰所有的我覺得不對這裡是台灣台灣就是民主法治的一個國家意思路是沒有錯誤的那我們就是要確定意思路"},{"start":1968.621,"end":1996.216,"text":"就這麼簡單好謝謝張宏祿委員那因為現場的委員對議事錄這件事情是有歧義的那我們就先暫不處理好不好我們之後再如果說我們先私下溝通一下大家溝通一下暫不處理我們先進行後面的議程不曉得大家可以嗎好我們就先議事錄先暫不確認好不好好謝謝大家"},{"start":1997.025,"end":2021.475,"text":"那現在繼續進行本日議程請宣讀報告事項二 邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況並備質詢討論事項一 審查台北市政府未對繼承道路處理條例草案提出建議請願文書案二 審查台北縣政府未對台北市政府所提繼承道路處理條例草案表示"},{"start":2022.135,"end":2043.449,"text":"意見表示贊同請願文書案三審查中軍圈建請將繼承道路處理條例草案緊述進行二三讀會以為憲法保障人民財產權之威嚴請願文書案四審查太平市新平公園新平生活公園都市社區都市更新會為陳情市以九二一震災重建暫行條例"},{"start":2044.449,"end":2066.284,"text":"第72條第三項增列免繳執行規定可否溯及既往請願文書案5審查呂君君為其向本院請願之全部資料請全部自行燒毀不必退回請願文書案6審查台南市政府為推動維護歷史街區風貌簡稱都市老舊及危險建築物加速重建獎勵條例草案之修正建議"},{"start":2067.345,"end":2082.304,"text":"請納工審議時參酌請願文書案7審查中華民國輪傳商業同業工會全國聯合會為建議修正海洋污染防治法規定請願文書案8審查黃春春軍委請緊速通過委員張玉梅等擬拒跟第375減租條例"},{"start":2083.547,"end":2106.846,"text":"第十九條及第三十一條條文之請願文書案 九審查魏圈圈均為建請修正詐欺犯罪危害防治條例第四十三條以強化重大詐欺犯罪嚇阻與社會防衛機制請願文書案 宣讀完畢好 那現在開始介紹這個在場委員及列席官員 那首先我們介紹李博義召委"},{"start":2109.517,"end":2132.206,"text":"好,那就依照這個議事人員給我的順序,不好意思,那就接下來李貞秀委員高金素美委員張志倫委員丁薛忠委員王宏威委員張宏祿委員王美惠委員黃潔委員吳祁銘委員"},{"start":2136.844,"end":2163.506,"text":"蘇小慧委員,我們介紹就先以本委員會為主,那外委的抱歉我們就跟大家揮揮手就好好那接下來我們介紹這個列席官員,那在介紹列席官員之前我們先歡迎我們的立法院前院長蘇嘉全先生先歡迎他回來回娘家,謝謝那現在開始介紹我們列席官員大陸委員會主任委員邱水正綜合國安處處長陳淑媚"},{"start":2166.414,"end":2194.223,"text":"文教處處長張璋經濟處處長李碧仁法政處處長周明瑞港澳盲章處處長盧長水聯絡處處長朱祐儀秘書處主任許君如人事室主任謝艾倫主機室主任謝淑媒政務室主任卓明偉"},{"start":2196.096,"end":2216.16,"text":"資訊室主任陳盈哲接下來介紹我們財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長蘇嘉群董事長副董事長兼秘書長羅文嘉主任秘書兼秘書處處長彭顯鈞文教處處長陳思豪經報處處長劉仁宏法律處代理處長林南勛綜合處處長劉慧玲"},{"start":2226.089,"end":2250.325,"text":"人事室會計室主任林雅萍內政部地政室專門委員張翠恩國土管理署都市更新建設組科長劉浩寧警政署刑事警察局詐欺犯罪防治中心督察劉拉中"},{"start":2252.145,"end":2273.124,"text":"我們海洋委員會海洋保育署專門委員陳鴻文我們補充介紹我們徐欣義委員有丁雪忠介紹過我們丁雪忠委員有介紹過不好意思接下來我們請大陸委員會邱淳震主任委員進行報告"},{"start":2284.798,"end":2313.601,"text":"主席、各位委員、各位女士、各位先生、大家早這邊貴委員會的邀請報告本會業務推動的情形在這邊跟大家扼要的口頭報告另外備有詳細的書面報告在敬請指教第一,近期的工作重點是因應中共對台施壓脅迫我們致力於維護國家主權安全"},{"start":2314.938,"end":2338.121,"text":"那麼這幾年來共軍軍機艦仍然持續擾台進行軍演或是海警的所謂的執法巡查操作灰色地帶行動企圖破壞台海現狀中共並借雙邊或多邊的國際產域形塑國際支持其一中原則的假象"},{"start":2339.079,"end":2358.659,"text":"今年對台工作會議以及兩會政府工作報告涉台的內容仍然是反毒、反干涉、觸統、觸融合作為工作重點,軟硬兩手並進,圖謀推進其統一進程面對中共對台複合性的施壓及統戰滲透"},{"start":2361.209,"end":2374.802,"text":"若會堅定捍衛國家主權及臺灣的民主自由的生活方式第二掌握國際及美中經貿情勢的變化密鑄中共兩會經貿政策的影響"},{"start":2377.213,"end":2385.164,"text":"中共今年3月全國兩會工作報告及通過十二五的規劃綱要顯示中國大陸的經濟發展趨緩以穩增長促轉型防風險"},{"start":2393.854,"end":2407.11,"text":"的內循環為主經濟政策跟趨向國家主導科技自立自強已居所有產業的核心戰略反映出中國大陸面臨經濟金融社會發展結構壓力"},{"start":2411.835,"end":2438.06,"text":"台商在大陸經營的風險大增政府基於台灣優先立足台灣佈局全球的經貿戰略我們會持續協助我們台商多元佈局強化競爭力及風險意識以提升台灣經濟安全韌性及主體性三 加強宣討賦入風險提醒國人留意人身安全"},{"start":2439.605,"end":2458.38,"text":"我們國人目前賦入仍然具有高度的風險我們從2024年到今年2月28日為止國人賦入失聯遭留置盤查或移招中共有關部門限制國人的人身自由安全的人數高達313人2024年有55人"},{"start":2465.403,"end":2491.618,"text":"2025年去年增加為4倍達到221人到今年1到2月仍然有37人每一個個案我們都很關切而且還有許多黑數沒有報來給我們所以我們會透過多元管道向國人來宣導提醒國人慎重評估服務的風險留意人身安全"},{"start":2492.498,"end":2511.504,"text":"另外為有效遏止中共藉濫發其身份證給我們國人的統戰滲透的作為我們從今年開始對國家負有高度忠誠義務的軍公教人員實施常態化制度化的查核"},{"start":2512.344,"end":2531.003,"text":"那麼不得再入涉及或領用中共的身份證件以維護兩岸單一身份的制度避免軍公教人員施政因為兩岸雙重的身份導致外界質疑並強化我們民眾對政府的信賴第四"},{"start":2532.044,"end":2550.882,"text":"為落實照顧中國大陸台商子女的教育權利我們持續協助在中國大陸設置大學學測及陰庭考場鼓勵台商子女返台升學來認識台灣的元素相關的研習活動"},{"start":2552.143,"end":2560.2,"text":"以及夏令營、東映營我們都會加強來舉辦另外我們密駐港澳勤事適時應處以維繫港澳住處"},{"start":2563.925,"end":2587.865,"text":"服務的效能中共持續加深對港澳的掌握及融合並在各領域廣設國安紅線進行政治審查限縮自由人權本會會密註觀測港澳的情勢持續進行風險管控以及動態的因應本會也將持續維持港澳住管"},{"start":2588.605,"end":2606.778,"text":"運作及服務以確保民眾權益對外服務不中斷不打烊未來的工作有六個方向第一個我們將持續整體掌握情勢的發展以及中共對台政策的作為維護台海和平"},{"start":2607.884,"end":2619.654,"text":"本會會祕註中國大陸內外部的情勢以及中共對台策略的作為並評估對兩岸關係的可能影響審慎應處維護台海和平穩定的現狀"},{"start":2623.697,"end":2647.792,"text":"第二,我們會強化兩岸經濟風險的管控慎處中共對台經貿施壓及融合威脅中共對台的政策一方面維持了複合性的施壓以及融合雙軌策略中共今年對台的工作會議相關的政策都強調深化兩岸融合發展"},{"start":2648.792,"end":2675.684,"text":"十五規劃將高質量的推進兩岸融合發展意圖透過制度化讓國人融入其生活中共透過補助措施或是給予同等待遇誘拉我企業人才及資金融入其產業供應鏈營造兩岸融合交流的熱絡假象來促成所謂的促融促統的目的"},{"start":2676.724,"end":2704.095,"text":"政府將就兩岸經貿進行必要有序的策略性結構調整來強化兩岸經貿的風險管控第三我們將持續完善安全管理循序漸進的推動兩岸的交流政府一向正向看待兩岸良性交流互動始終秉持對等尊嚴的原則推動兩岸健康有序合於法律規範的交流只要"},{"start":2704.915,"end":2727.767,"text":"如方不再預設政治前提或條件為兩岸互動設置不必要的障礙其實就可以共同構築良性互動的基礎來維護兩岸人民的福祉本會也將配合整體情勢及兩岸關係的變化持續會同相關機關完善兩岸交流事務的管理"},{"start":2728.806,"end":2755.797,"text":"循序漸進來推動兩岸人員的往來經貿互動以及教育文化等各項的交流第四我們將結合跨部會的力量反制中共跨境鎮壓以維護國人的權益中共假借成都的名義持續對我政府官員及民眾進行跨境鎮壓"},{"start":2757.677,"end":2767.457,"text":"未來不排除運用剛通過的民族團結進步促進法將跨境鎮壓的對象再擴大到不支持統一的民眾"},{"start":2768.851,"end":2786.699,"text":"台灣並非中共跨境鎮壓唯一的受害者但是我們了解這種踐踏國際規則毫無文明底線的做法對兩岸的良性互動會帶來嚴重的傷害也讓國際社會對於中共的野心有所警覺"},{"start":2787.859,"end":2801.631,"text":"本會將結合跨部會的力量反制中共跨境鎮壓以維護國人的權益同時作為被中共鎮壓國人最大的護盾不受中共的恫嚇及分化"},{"start":2802.594,"end":2816.061,"text":"五,我們持續協助我們的學生能夠多元面向了解兩岸關係的發展,以及強化對中國大陸的嗜讀教育,來增進兩岸青年認識台灣的多元民主。"},{"start":2820.143,"end":2847.49,"text":"最後第六我們會健全交流規範及安全管理機制持續關懷港澳新住民鑑於今年港澳情勢的變化快速持續我們將檢視港澳相關的法規健全安全管理規範並協助相關主管機關強化涉入之港澳金流人流來台相關管理措施及國安審查"},{"start":2848.752,"end":2869.855,"text":"我們也將持續透過公司協力也結合地方政府的資源來幫助協助移居來台的港澳人士及港澳學生了解居留定居、畢業留台的相關政策措施來協助港澳新住民加速適應及融入台灣社會"},{"start":2870.896,"end":2884.788,"text":"最後要強調台海和平穩定是世界安全繁榮的必要元素台灣的安全與印太的和平息息相關我們要再次呼籲北京當局要放棄"},{"start":2886.209,"end":2909.24,"text":"江華的思維以及負面的作為認真理解我方所釋出的善意與我政府透過不預設前提能夠進行對話溝通化解分歧回應國際社會以及兩岸人民的期待共同維護台海與區域的和平穩定以上報告敬請各位委員指教謝謝"},{"start":2916.534,"end":2944.83,"text":"接下來我們請海峽交流基金會蘇嘉全董事長報告你好召集委員各位在場的委員先進以及立法院的同仁行政院的同仁各位媒體的朋友大家早安大家好"},{"start":2946.618,"end":2961.873,"text":"今天有機會以海基會董事長的身份到內政委員會來報告對我來說特別具有意義因為過去"},{"start":2963.194,"end":2981.329,"text":"我在立法院服務非常久的一段時間這裡對我來說非常的熟悉包括看到的老同事點點滴滴都還在心裡立法院對我來說除了有感動之外"},{"start":2981.989,"end":3004.008,"text":"也是一個非常重要的地方,因為這裡是我的樑架那麼今天以備刑的身份,再一次回到立法院心裡除了感謝之外,也更深刻的感受到這一份責任的重量"},{"start":3005.149,"end":3020.091,"text":"我在海基會任職今天剛好滿兩個月這一段時間主要是將內部我們的團隊做一個整合"},{"start":3021.172,"end":3044.994,"text":"那麼除了這個之外,也跟我們的秘書長、海基會的同仁拜會不少的工商團體跟相關的社團來聽他們的意見跟建議希望在既有的基礎上,不只讓會務運作更加的穩定"},{"start":3046.295,"end":3073.687,"text":"也更能推進台灣社會的實際的需求那麼海基位在兩岸事務上主要就是扮演一個穩定溝通務實服務的角色一方面我們要把政府政策執行好另外一方面也要回應兩岸民間交流的實際需求"},{"start":3074.787,"end":3094.962,"text":"在當前的情勢下,我們會用審慎穩健的方式來推動相關的工作讓制度可以持續運作,也讓交流能夠穩健、健康、有序的進行"},{"start":3098.475,"end":3120.349,"text":"會帶領團隊善盡職責把該做的事情做好那麼今天的業務報告等一下會請羅文嘉秘書長向各位委員做比較完整的說明也誠懇的請各位委員先進多多指教給我們寶貴的意見作為後續改進的參考"},{"start":3124.392,"end":3131.013,"text":"再次感謝我們的主席以及各位委員的關心支持謝謝大家 謝謝"},{"start":3147.324,"end":3175.731,"text":"還有各位委員大家早安請代表海基會來進行業務報告海基會是民間財團法人組織但是受政府委託來辦理兩岸協商交流服務等相關事項從1991年成立到現在今年剛好第35年這麼長的歷史以來海基會秉持的辦理業務的原則是三項民主"},{"start":3176.701,"end":3190.969,"text":"和平人道民主意思說我們所有的交流是過程是手段但目的是要捍衛台灣的民主制度保護我們既有的民主生活方式"},{"start":3191.849,"end":3215.778,"text":"第二個 和平 海際會透過交流對話各種的可能方式沒有管道我們找管道 沒有辦法我們想辦法希望透過文明對話和平的方式來確保所有的衝突和爭議可以獲得解決第三項是人道 兩岸有不同的政治體制 不同的法律體系"},{"start":3217.037,"end":3235.284,"text":"法律跟實務往往有很大的落差在這過程中海基會希望能夠協助以人道作為最高標準來協助兩岸的人民來處理他們在不同的制度下產生的種種需要服務的事項這個海基會工作的原則"},{"start":3236.204,"end":3256.645,"text":"在這三個原則之下我們去年一整年的工作的項目在書面報告中有詳細的說明在這裡節省大家時間我就不一一重複我把今年過去一年有比較大的變化的部分有調整部分向各位做口頭說明第一個我們特別著重在人身安全"},{"start":3257.826,"end":3283.16,"text":"國人到路不管是工作或是就學或是觀光碰到疑難雜症甚至失蹤失聯甚至因為宗教原因被拘禁拘留的時候海基會在第一線會跟國內的家屬還有政府相關單位還有對岸相關單位用一切方式希望能夠取得資訊協助來瞭解他們狀況因為在去年"},{"start":3284.782,"end":3293.448,"text":"過去兩年有關台灣一貫道道青因為宗教信仰原因被對岸拘留到目前為止一個都沒有回來"},{"start":3294.608,"end":3319.178,"text":"那這些海基會在陸委會以及內政部還有相關都會協助下還有很多的台商團體朋友協助下我們盡其可能協助台灣的國人來化解他們的憂慮和提供他們必要的協助那其他在不管是國人到大陸旅行或是大陸人是來台灣就學念書甚至工作碰到急難的時候"},{"start":3319.898,"end":3336.7,"text":"他們第一個想到的是海基會在今年蒙利過年春節期間有一位大陸人士在臺灣臨時發生激烈意外有生命危險當時雖然是過年春節期間但是海基會同仁人家院內政部和陸委同仁用最快速的時間協助在大陸"},{"start":3338.761,"end":3363.51,"text":"長輩來到臺灣在過年期間能夠來協助探訪那在這方面工作也是我們工作重點那另外有國人到了大陸一旦發生急難也許是生病也許是車禍大陸的醫療無法滿足他需求的時候必須後送回臺灣這時候也是海基會受陸委會委託我們跟紅十字會透過小三通的方式把他們運送到金門"},{"start":3364.19,"end":3386.296,"text":"再用親民配合國防部用醫療專機運送他回台灣那這是我們的工作項目再有一項過去三十幾年有非常多台商到中國大陸經營經商經過三十幾年來的不斷變化有不少台商他目前在中國各省的時候他碰到的問題他無依無靠沒有親戚沒有小孩"},{"start":3387.276,"end":3415.934,"text":"那工作沒有著落可能流落到醫院可能流到街頭那麼透過154個各地的台商協會我們陸續把這些台灣的具有台灣國籍的人民陸續的接送為台灣那接送台灣過程中海基會必須跟各地方政府的社會福利單位來做聯繫安排好如何接制如何安送那另外一項我們特別注重年輕世代的交流"},{"start":3416.875,"end":3438.214,"text":"目前每一年從中國大陸來台灣的交換生一學期的交換生將近有1000名那1000名他們在台灣會停留一個學期那這一個學期他可能在台大政大師大文化不從的大學那海際會會利用他們在台灣求學的時間我們辦理相關活動跟他們座談讓他們認識台灣的美麗跟自由"},{"start":3441.597,"end":3453.126,"text":"過去海際會在這方面去年有一學期如果來1000個我們將近可以高達有50%以上的可以直接跟他們接觸到他們也非常喜歡和熱衷參與海際會所舉辦的各項活動"},{"start":3456.828,"end":3478.682,"text":"這項也向各位做說明除此之外海基會也扮演協助外交部和陸委會有國外相關的團體研究團體或相關的駐外單位想要進一步了解兩岸關係的現況的時候會到海基會做拜訪我們在去年114年度一共接待學生團體有16團有586人次社會團體有17團488人次那另外針對新住民"},{"start":3484.405,"end":3504.327,"text":"還有機會我們每年幾乎每個月會跟在台灣的新住民團體朋友來進行也許是爬山也許吃飯也許坐談也許探訪那這方面從來沒有間斷那另外一部分就是台商各位知道在台商雖然這幾年在中國的數量開始減少"},{"start":3505.248,"end":3529.946,"text":"因為中國經濟下行陸續的他們回到台灣或到其他世界各地但海基會仍然把台商的服務當成重點工作尤其當中國的經濟有問題的時候更需要海基會陸委會和政府來協助台商我們在今年的台商春節參會裡頭我們除了特別到台中舉辦讓這些台商朋友參觀實地了解台灣現在經濟的優勢經濟的機會產業的狀況之外"},{"start":3534.91,"end":3551.048,"text":"我們也搭起了大陸台商跟亞洲台商和世界台商的交流平台讓他們彼此有機會能夠進行聯繫交換意見當中國大陸台商朋友他們想要佈局全球"},{"start":3551.829,"end":3570.417,"text":"的時候他們能夠擁有最好機會找到不管在亞洲或世界任何地方也是有台商經驗的朋友來進行交流那這個工作我們進行兩年來反映的非常好也感謝大院以及社會的支持那我們繼續在進行那其他"},{"start":3571.357,"end":3594.62,"text":"有關大陸台商子女大家知道海基位的夏令營跟東令營一直備受歡迎那東令營在今年的寒假我們舉辦了包括高中營和國中營都很受歡迎那夏令營我們將在今年的夏天繼續舉辦除此之外在過去一年我們新增加了跟四所台商子女學校"},{"start":3595.561,"end":3619.496,"text":"三所台商子女學校來進行這個交流我們直接跟東瓦華東上海台商子女學校利用他們海暑假返台授課的時候跟他們進行座談跟老師進行座談甚至台商子女學校來台灣環島騎車這個環島的時候我們海基院同仁也陪著他們一起參與那以上簡單向各位做報告謝謝"},{"start":3627.385,"end":3644.756,"text":"現在進行詢答委員諮詢前原地做幾點宣告每位委員發言時間本委員會五分鐘必要時的延長兩分鐘非本會委員五分鐘上午十點三十分截止發言登記那本次會議就不處理臨時提案請問各位委員有沒有意見"},{"start":3646.24,"end":3660.77,"text":"沒有好那今天有關於海基會的詢答因為海基會原則上是秘書長最熟悉業務那我們今天的詢答原則上由秘書長代為備詢如果有秘書長沒有辦法回答的問題然後再請董事長做作為補充"},{"start":3664.005,"end":3690.872,"text":"好,那因為我們第一位是李貞秀委員,那李貞秀委員以及前三位的委員,包括陳青龍、陳昭芝委員有提出來他們要依據立法院職群行事法第18、20以及21條還有立法院議事規則相關規定採用聯合職群,那就因此由三位委員共同職群,那我們的時間並計等一下等一下是主席,聽書一來"},{"start":3698.117,"end":3711.162,"text":"因為可以一人一人 因為我覺得都是這樣不要說因為我改變政府以來內政所得的事情因為我以前沒有 現在還要六年多 從來沒有聯合諮詢"},{"start":3723.218,"end":3734.782,"text":"因為我也尊重主席,因為有什麼問題,有什麼問題應該是這樣,沒人這樣啦不要為了經過自己的事情來應用到內政,當故意來的後悔,大家互相尊重,以上"},{"start":3745.285,"end":3757.495,"text":"好謝謝喔沒關係不好意思我主席先宣告好那我想因為這個是屬於個別委員的權利那身為召委就是尊重每一個委員要不要請使他的一個權利"},{"start":3767.24,"end":3791.343,"text":"你來內政委員會第一天當初第一次主持會議你就要破壞這個整個我們內政委員會的關係而且我們內政委員會我們那天兩位早尾你們在協商的時候沒有講到這個完全沒有講到這一個可以聯合諮詢的如果你可以聯合諮詢那在那邊調委員的順序在幹嘛這是不對的我覺得"},{"start":3793.756,"end":3815.2,"text":"我覺得這個事情知識體大休息一下休息一下那還沒輪到他發言他現在以內政來講他還沒有在執行台上的委員現在還沒有發言的權利除非是程序問題我覺得一切要照法令來講好不好如果沒有辦法出我們先休息"},{"start":3815.74,"end":3820.085,"text":"我要問錯,就是立法院的職權行使法等下委員,現在還沒有執行時間我們請高金素美委員表達意見"},{"start":3827.829,"end":3846.099,"text":"大家早安我想今天董事長也在這裡我們很久沒有看到前立法院長在這裡我是認為立法院每一位同事都得尊重尤其在委員會裡面的召委的決議剛剛召委已經有說過了"},{"start":3849.04,"end":3870.331,"text":"利用職權行使法的第十八條所有條例都沒有說不可以一起聯合質詢所以我覺得一切的決定我們還是尊重召委那今天這個題目呢如果大家說是守法的話我想我們就守法到底原因是因為我們的立法院院長"},{"start":3871.892,"end":3896.099,"text":"已經同意李貞秀委員他還是屬於我們立法委員所以他應該可以行使他立法委員應該要有的職權這是最起碼的尊重當然上一次博弈召委的決定我們也沒有什麼意見所以有很多官員不能回答我相信這場的蘇董事戰也是我們前"},{"start":3897.199,"end":3923.45,"text":"立法院的院長也在這裡立法院院長其實呢在立法院的宣告等同於已經實行了所以我認為今天是在場的同事們內政委員會的同事們我們盡量把這個氣氛的和諧好然後讓我們的議事能夠順利的進行好嗎我想這是全國人最想聽到也最想看到的謝謝"},{"start":3924.09,"end":3941.784,"text":"我想因為這部分屬於個別委員的權利,那應該不至於侵害到其他委員的一個權利那是個別委員權利的形式那如果說你們堅持希望再做討論的話,我就先休息三分鐘好不好休息來討論一下"},{"start":3951.571,"end":3962.481,"text":"對啊 就是過去也沒有官員可以不接受立委備詢啊現在休息了啦現在休息 現在是休息還沒休息在平安房搞不清楚狀況好不好啊搞不清楚狀況休息都怎樣了"},{"start":3976.196,"end":3977.397,"text":"有啦有啦"},{"start":3992.045,"end":3992.485,"text":"他們都專門賣 亂來亂來的 亂來亂來的"},{"start":4017.059,"end":4024.263,"text":"你欺負你先做就像你欺負我他不是我們推舉出來的"},{"start":4046.335,"end":4066.932,"text":"你不能這樣子,你不要欺負人家你欺負人家,你再後來欺負我是要先講,不可以這樣尊重廟小小,來來來,尊重廟小小,誰覺得我先講?不要啦,這件事過得...他那個是說今天第一天的..."},{"start":4068.092,"end":4081.4,"text":"做廟宇啊對啊沒啦,要看出什麼意味,人家是說以前到現在都這樣對啊,問一下,問一下,會想我啦"},{"start":4088.124,"end":4096.031,"text":"大家不要說 真是說 大家都那樣 優秀的人嘛不這樣 你說一個一個一直說"},{"start":4098.759,"end":4104.503,"text":"對啊 大家嘛 女郎們嘛 都可以有避嫌"},{"start":4124.974,"end":4130.038,"text":"我們問你們可以不回答嗎還是按照原來的方式啊國立"},{"start":4153.648,"end":4156.47,"text":"你約定了,今天是非選舉?不,不,不,今天來的"},{"start":4173.085,"end":4178.547,"text":"市長在那邊錄影,沒完沒了解,請問市長有沒有安慰?"},{"start":4195.95,"end":4208.445,"text":"這樣先後面就是正規制這樣的一個要求沒有違法 因為違法就是有法規"},{"start":4215.993,"end":4221.937,"text":"法定人數不足法定人數不足法定人數不足法定人數不足"},{"start":4252.724,"end":4253.985,"text":"這裏面有個大廈,這裏面有個大廈"},{"start":4269.06,"end":4271.764,"text":"鸡蛋糕"},{"start":4285.117,"end":4299.44,"text":"我們也不能夠讓別的地方我們也不能夠讓別的地方我們也不能夠讓別的地方我們也不能夠讓別的地方我們也不能夠讓別的地方我們也不能夠讓別的地方"},{"start":4310.462,"end":4334.217,"text":"我沒有說不可以啊我沒有說不可以啊我沒有說不可以啊我沒有說不可以啊我沒有說不可以啊我沒有說不可以啊我沒有說不可以啊"},{"start":4342.31,"end":4365.501,"text":"我們沒有任何規定委員會的職權是要採用什麼樣的方式所以我們才問為什麼一定要為了他破例呢我們沒有為了他破例我們沒有為了他破例我們沒有為了他破例我們沒有為了他破例我們沒有為了他破例"},{"start":4367.662,"end":4368.763,"text":"為什麼過去委員會從來沒有這樣的提出"},{"start":4393.939,"end":4402.546,"text":"你們聽到沒?你們聽到沒?你們聽到沒?你們聽到沒?你們聽到沒?"},{"start":4423.603,"end":4441.998,"text":"尊重委員 該不該對這位委員先尊重一下 該不該尊重委員"},{"start":4449.662,"end":4449.862,"text":"哦哦"},{"start":4463.98,"end":4464.2,"text":"蜜糖"},{"start":4483.243,"end":4494.126,"text":"像這樣後面也可以改前前的照片叫別人去支持嘛"},{"start":4513.17,"end":4515.572,"text":"這個合法的,延誤規劃,沒辦法"},{"start":4537.648,"end":4543.973,"text":"真的,這要做什麼你知道,要是要我來延誤我沒有錢怎麼賣羊的"},{"start":4580.754,"end":4588.7,"text":"這間餐廳的餐廳"},{"start":4591.182,"end":4593.684,"text":"喂 哎呀 安娜哎哦 哦 哦"},{"start":4622.295,"end":4624.517,"text":"主任 啊 我剛剛忘記了 不好意思"},{"start":4648.348,"end":4653.571,"text":"像這樣,手揮一揮主人,你是不是要靠前面來講宗教?"},{"start":4669.982,"end":4677.011,"text":"我看不太好,可是可能一拜一拜可能會晚一點點,因為現在總統啊"},{"start":4681.794,"end":4684.357,"text":"先跟他講一下沒有宅店,現在只有一間"},{"start":4701.932,"end":4727.751,"text":"因為澳門其實是要進入台灣的大陸 進入台灣前港的澳門而且是在網路上採訪的我們都很適合 因為我們現在在台中的採訪人都很適合我們要在澳門的三星島上 採訪這三星島我進大陸之後 北海道 去國土大陸所以我還在澳門多一次 都接了一遍進澳門就是去大陸 採訪這四星島"},{"start":4734.736,"end":4734.756,"text":"蝦仁"},{"start":4751.181,"end":4754.623,"text":"我尊重我尊重我尊重他們的主權"},{"start":4773.512,"end":4778.275,"text":"護航官員民主支持護航官員民主支持"},{"start":4798.267,"end":4803.213,"text":"不要吵到上禮拜還怎麼都沒有吵到吵到吵到吵到吵到吵到"},{"start":4815.206,"end":4838.463,"text":"護航官員民主支持護航官員民主支持護航官員民主支持護航官員民主支持護航官員民主支持護航官員民主支持護航官員民主支持護航官員民主支持護航官員民主支持"},{"start":4843.707,"end":4847.153,"text":"現在是合法的 其實已經是很合法的"},{"start":4855.998,"end":4869.044,"text":"那這樣就是你幹不完事了你如果不願意,我願意給你換一個男的,你也不願意這樣就算了,就是我那些本人都不願意給我換男的,這樣就沒有辦法了你為什麼不合格?"},{"start":4883.21,"end":4898.078,"text":"好了,我們安慰人們的生活,人們的生活,都沒有其他人的生活,沒有照顧親人的保養和照顧他們的生活,他們的生活,他們的生活,"},{"start":4906.722,"end":4928.52,"text":"人家都五雙春風的過一陣子,那你會不會覺得很容易啊?因為我們年輕的時候,年輕人的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的過程,他們的"},{"start":4929.426,"end":4936.253,"text":"你們在提一些方案跟章偉討論一下你們在提一些方案跟章偉問一問尊重民眾黨論"},{"start":4949.466,"end":4951.346,"text":"嗯嗯嗯嗯嗯"},{"start":4973.294,"end":4988.011,"text":"哎唷,老闆娘,不要...不要剃頭去斷掉褲子"},{"start":4995.956,"end":5003.36,"text":"我今天11點,要去上那個網站,叫了一堆人,那你現在如果去賺喔,一億太多了,還要賺這麼大錢,還要經常在說,我們也不知道,經常這樣,對啊,那現在出1.5千塊,"},{"start":5024.465,"end":5030.069,"text":"沒有不服啦 只是放餐堆啦 都這樣啦都要這樣抱啊 大家"},{"start":5069.377,"end":5083.882,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":5094.419,"end":5102.708,"text":"加油加油加油加油"},{"start":5111.681,"end":5140.589,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":5142.279,"end":5168.126,"text":"他有時間,他有時間"},{"start":5173.114,"end":5186.888,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":5206.45,"end":5206.71,"text":"這裏有個大廈"},{"start":5219.344,"end":5219.364,"text":"謝謝觀看"},{"start":5230.39,"end":5248.155,"text":"我已經超級累了"},{"start":5256.977,"end":5273.592,"text":"八五六五 八五六五"},{"start":5282.038,"end":5290.12,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":5317.415,"end":5335.879,"text":"謝謝觀賞"},{"start":5349.156,"end":5373.296,"text":"哇,這間後門,那邊那個,那邊那個,那邊那個,那邊那個,那邊那個,那邊那個,那邊那個,那邊那個"},{"start":5405.948,"end":5406.408,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":5425.314,"end":5425.754,"text":"嗯嗯"},{"start":5462.777,"end":5463.158,"text":"慢慢來,不急"},{"start":5485.279,"end":5500.871,"text":"好,大家不要緊喔好,那我們現在開始繼續尋找,我確認一下這個陳清榮,你們的意見是還是剛剛的意見,依你們的意見想要繼續嗎?好,那我們就現在三位委員共用時間"},{"start":5503.72,"end":5529.517,"text":"時間就15分鐘,那因為只有一位委員,所以是加2好不好那我們就計時器調整完就開始諮詢好,有請主席好如果你時間用我要繼續用,這個技術問題我覺得沒什麼意見主席好好"},{"start":5530.936,"end":5536.103,"text":"主席好,有請陸委會邱主委上台好,那就麻煩邱主任委員"},{"start":5547.798,"end":5576.207,"text":"主席各位委員不論入委會內政部甚至行政院都沒有資格判定立法委員身份行政權若凌駕立法權民主制度必將淡然無存行政院竟然可以決定立法院能不能監督前所未見將憲法賦予立法院的權力踩在腳下嚴重破壞中華民國憲政秩序賴政府毀憲亂政莫恥為慎民進黨口口聲聲說自己是多元"},{"start":5576.627,"end":5581.709,"text":"包容的政黨20年前的民進黨還肯推動族群共榮20年後的民進黨卻帶頭撕裂台灣社會挑起族群對立蔡政府時期陸配昌正就任從來沒有任何問題換成賴政府開始各種羞辱、霸凌專找陸配麻煩"},{"start":5595.074,"end":5618.452,"text":"所有國民都有受到平等對待的權利但現在的行政院卻帶頭藐視國會踐踏民主法治赤裸裸的將弱勢族群當成政治鬥爭的工具我要請問邱主委請你完整的唸出中華民國憲法第四條及憲法徵收條文第十一條謝謝邱主委請回答"},{"start":5625.351,"end":5653.585,"text":"那如果沒有回答,我要時間暫停嗎?好,那麻煩請我們邱主任委員回答有關剛剛李政秀委員所提中澳民國憲法第四條及徵求條文相關的法條麻煩我們邱主任委員回答我在這裡要跟我們廖召集委員報告李政秀女士沒有依法及時放棄中國大陸的戶籍和國籍"},{"start":5654.591,"end":5683.96,"text":"不符合兩案條例的參選資格也沒有照國際法的要求落實對中華民國單一效忠的義務我們要強調只有合法的立委才有憲法的質詢權對於不具備立法資格的立委資格的人行政官員如果回覆他的質詢就是違憲違法的行為政府依法行政不可能執法犯法謝謝詹委"},{"start":5687.182,"end":5698.452,"text":"有關剛剛李貞秀委員所提中華民國憲法第四條的內容以及針對條文相關的問題請我們的邱主任委員能夠說明一下"},{"start":5706.529,"end":5713.595,"text":"請邱主任回答我們李政秀的提出的資訊現在是李政秀的時間請邱主任回答現在我們李政秀的問題有,這剛剛才試過了好不好,才試過了"},{"start":5729.062,"end":5756.329,"text":"我們來回覆廖總召的提問我們政府處理兩岸關係當然是依照中華民國憲法及其徵修條文還有兩岸關係來處理兩岸的事務那對於這個所說中華民國憲法第四條那當然也是我們會遵守中華民國憲法謝謝"},{"start":5762.534,"end":5773.905,"text":"我再次跟你抗議,你的時間還沒有到沒有,我們剛剛才事過了,時間分開,但是還是共同尊重張偉的裁決張偉剛剛才事過了,好不好,謝謝張偉剛剛才事過了,好,謝謝不是你的時間啊這個張偉的問題您可以回答嗎"},{"start":5788.447,"end":5807.838,"text":"就回答陳委員的質詢不管是第四條不管第十一條不管我們中華民國憲法的本文還是徵書條文以及兩岸關係條例都是我們陸委會在處理兩岸事務的基本原則"},{"start":5812.864,"end":5838.3,"text":"沒有,兩岸人民關係條例第一條以及落會組織法第一條規定的是什麼?請主委告訴我請回答請主委回答問題可以再說一次嗎?兩岸人民關係條例第一條以及組織法第一條規定是什麼?請主委告訴我"},{"start":5841.219,"end":5866.923,"text":"請邱主任委員回答有關兩岸人民關係條例的第一條以及組織法第一條的相關規定這邊跟廖昭偉報告我們陸委會是兩岸條例的主管機關這個沒有什麼問題那我們就是依法行政我們就是依法行政"},{"start":5868.477,"end":5887.952,"text":"這是我們的立場今天兩案條例也是在大院三讀通過我想大院三讀通過也是要我們行政部門依法行政我們今天就是依法行政包括今天的正義我們也在依法行政謝謝"},{"start":5891.591,"end":5910.483,"text":"謝謝主席邱主委在上節目的時候說如果同時擁有中國大陸的戶籍就會善失台灣人的身份但是本席從1999年核發台灣身份證與台胞證到現在已經27年戶籍早在27年前就註銷沒有雙重戶籍從來沒有中國護照"},{"start":5913.405,"end":5927.756,"text":"我的身份完全合法合規官方從來沒有撤銷過我的身份本席就是百分之百的台灣人所以我這樣的理解有錯嗎請主委回答"},{"start":5929.878,"end":5936.622,"text":"我從來沒有被中華民國撤銷戶籍過,所以我是合法的中華民國國民"},{"start":5947.549,"end":5975.021,"text":"那請我們的邱主任委員回答有關大陸人士戶籍有沒有註銷,以及在台灣權力相關行使的相關問題因為你不直接回答為什麼不能直接回答我的問題請尊重每一位委員發言的權利,如果說在溝通上面有一些障礙的時候,那我們就讓議事能夠順利繼續進行"},{"start":5982.06,"end":5999.989,"text":"我跟廖召集委員報告我們按照兩岸條例第九條之一在當年2004年3月1號大院三讀通過之後我們建立了所謂兩岸單一戶極致如果"},{"start":6001.055,"end":6018.935,"text":"你是之前沒有及時放棄這個中國大陸戶籍的人那你在六個月內將喪失台灣的戶籍以及戶籍所衍生的所有的權利那個時候2004年"},{"start":6022.741,"end":6040.656,"text":"8月31號之後沒有來補繳的人基本上那麼他可能是喪失這個我們台灣的戶籍以及戶籍相關的權利那我們說到李貞秀女士唯一一份放棄"},{"start":6041.957,"end":6059.815,"text":"中國大陸戶籍的證明是在2025年3月我們也很努力的幫忙找有沒有更前面放棄的我們找遍了移民署相關的資料找遍了海基會相關的資料他只有這一份"},{"start":6060.416,"end":6085.06,"text":"因此我們兩岸條例第21條你必須轉換身份滿十年才有參選的資格就這一項我們還沒有看到提供新的證據謝謝好來我要那個訪博邱主委我還有兩分鐘是嗎剛剛說時間繼續對剛才是過了好不好我的台報證怎麼來的如果照邱主委這樣講我沒有台灣身份的時候我的台報證怎麼來的時間繼續時間繼續OK時間繼續好"},{"start":6090.576,"end":6094.942,"text":"時間進去謝謝主席有請主委還有時間請尊重召委的主席權"},{"start":6110.602,"end":6112.044,"text":"請從記時間我還沒有發言請從記時間好五分鐘重設"},{"start":6128.323,"end":6150.379,"text":"好 邱主委邱委員好邱主委上週我在院會質詢的時候台下一片民進黨立委高喊台灣中國一邊一國那我現在要請教邱主委根據現在的中華民國憲法還有根據您所主管的兩岸人民關係條例請問台灣跟中國現在究竟是兩個地區還是兩個國家請回答"},{"start":6154.322,"end":6174.67,"text":"我們剛也提到了跟陳文仁報告我們是依照中華民國憲法以及徵修條文還有兩岸關係來處理兩岸事務我們認為我們中華民國當然是一個主權獨立的國家我們台灣從來不是中華人民共和國的一部分"},{"start":6175.922,"end":6180.106,"text":"中華民國與中華人民共和國互不隸屬根據這兩個法你認為台灣現在是兩個國家還是兩個地區請你就我的問題回答"},{"start":6190.711,"end":6211.419,"text":"我剛已經說過了,兩岸關係就是兩岸關係我們就是依照中華民國憲法,以兩岸處理兩岸事務我一向主張一邊果,但這是必須透過憲法跟修憲才能達到的這是沒有人可以否認的事實但是主委你竟然我剛也說了,中華民國以中華人民共和國"},{"start":6213.12,"end":6235.419,"text":"是客觀的事實與台海現象包括選舉跟擔任公職我想請教你是什麼哪一部法律授權你這樣一位行政機關來解讀立法院的立法委員的資格跟他的職權請問你依據哪一個法令來解釋立委的資格跟職權你只要回答是依據哪一個法令"},{"start":6236.379,"end":6248.205,"text":"報告陳委員我們處理有關於兩岸人民權利義務的法典就是我們兩岸人民關係的我們是主管機關我們陸委會是兩岸條例的主管機關沒有人造成行政機關可以解釋立法院的資格跟職權主委之前有民進黨立委提案"},{"start":6260.931,"end":6276.062,"text":"台灣跟中華人民共和國這兩個詞放到兩岸人民關係條例並且將憲法當中的在統一國家統一之前這個字也刪掉但是最後他請助理到議事員那邊把這些字用立可敗"},{"start":6277.863,"end":6302.552,"text":"自己撤案了我覺得很可惜啊如果能夠由和總統同一個派系的立委政黨立委來提出落實一邊一國的這個主張這個是別具指標意義那如果只這樣再來提出我非常樂意幫忙連署請問主委你支持兩岸條例中清楚定義台灣跟中華人民共和國嗎請回答"},{"start":6304.804,"end":6320.653,"text":"跟委員報告,我想我們兩岸條例的修正,我想都有很多的社會各界有很多的指教,也有很多的提案那基本上站在主管機關的立場,就是要有共識,要有社會共識,要朝野共識"},{"start":6324.335,"end":6340.614,"text":"主委你剛剛五分鐘前在解釋立法院的資格跟職權的時候你就不需要社會共識我現在只是請教你你支持這樣做法嗎在兩岸關係人民條例把台灣跟中華人民共和國把這兩個詞放進去你支持嗎我只請教你支持嗎"},{"start":6343.275,"end":6363.624,"text":"跟委員報告,我們入委會就是依照現行的兩岸條例來推展兩岸事務主委你沒有回答我的問題但是無論在這個法案是民眾黨或是民進黨來提案,我想都可以提問題是如果他真的通過了,我請教主委行政院會附屬嗎?賴總統會通過嗎?會公佈嗎?"},{"start":6368.631,"end":6385.051,"text":"請執政黨不要說一套做一套喔這個台灣中國一邊一國不是用喊的也不是在議場喊也不是在街上喊你必須要透過修法修憲才能夠進行的實際情況我們任何兩岸條例的修法都一定會透過立法院的程序"},{"start":6385.672,"end":6399.558,"text":"也要結合朝野的共識全民的共識跟意志才會來推動您和沈伯陽立委不斷的提到中華人民共和國的國家情報法認為說中國公民有義務要幫中國收集情資所以也依此來覺得說因為你們不承認他有台灣的國籍所以你們認為他也必須要這樣子做好那你既然要講中華人民共和國的這個法律"},{"start":6412.044,"end":6425.253,"text":"就不要談半套 我來跟您談 請主委看一下這個畫面既然沈伯陽立委跟民進黨還有主委 您都要談中華人民共和國的法律您剛剛接受記者採訪的時候也提到這一點"},{"start":6426.994,"end":6447.676,"text":"那請問中華人民共和國國籍法第九條寫得很清楚定居外國的中國公民取得外國的這個國籍就自動喪失了中國國籍這代表定居在台灣三十多年的並且在民國八十八年一九九九年就取得台灣身份證的李徵秀委員"},{"start":6448.297,"end":6469.929,"text":"他在那一天當下就自動消失了,喪失了中國國籍這麼清楚的事實,內政部跟立委會都看不見嗎?看不懂嗎?依照民進黨立委的邏輯,依照主委您的邏輯,依照民進黨跟本身的邏輯中國的法律是法律,你不能只挑,只選,只講你要講的部分來做詮釋"},{"start":6471.85,"end":6490.113,"text":"主委是謝謝陳委員的指教有關於您剛提到國籍法當然我們國籍法的主管機關是行政院是我們內政部我們內政部在解釋國籍法是把所有國人都一視同仁"},{"start":6490.914,"end":6507.584,"text":"除了中華民國國籍之外,當政公職一定要放棄中華民國以外的國籍不管是一個國家,還是政團,或者是政治的一個團體不管跟我們有沒有邦交關係無關,就是要體現"},{"start":6510.653,"end":6537.263,"text":"單一效忠中華民國的這個立法精神那你剛剛提到那個我們確實如果你沒有放棄沒有努力放棄你極可能會受到中共的國家情報法中共的國家安全法或者是反間諜法他要求你配合中共要這個收集台灣的情報那這個部分當事人會陷入很大的困難"},{"start":6539.223,"end":6560.712,"text":"我們也認為今天不讓李貞秀女士放棄中華人民共和國國籍是中共政府跟台灣政府在主要我請你回答我的問題,你又在重述一個早上的事情請問陸委會是怎麼誕生的?為什麼要有陸委會?"},{"start":6563.427,"end":6572.174,"text":"沒有兩岸人民關係條例哪來的陸委會我們是因為兩岸條例授權由陸委會擔任兩岸條例的主管機關謝謝主委"},{"start":6574.5,"end":6589.688,"text":"好 就是 我要求我這五分鐘 重新計時我重新計時五分鐘好 那我再做這件事這一場好 你不要吵我的 我的進行時間 我的進行時間 時間讓你時間讓你 我的進行時間 我的進行時間來 今天請問 沒有我 完全沒有關係"},{"start":6604.11,"end":6614.174,"text":"就沒有議會會議所以今天議會會會存在,就因為有兩方面的關係條例,是不是?謝謝,謝謝陳委員好,我舉一個例子孫立芳總長根據國安部的一個說明"},{"start":6623.662,"end":6642.808,"text":"他說孫中壯一來務實提出了註銷中國大陸戶籍的證明文件也不用申請規劃最主要他是依據被指台灣地區人民身份及戶籍最後要點第六點的規定他就是說"},{"start":6644.148,"end":6661.975,"text":"七十六年十一月二號一直到現在九十三年三月一號我們修正前意思就是說我們在政府開放大陸地區探取老法才有所謂的住宅戶籍的規定"},{"start":6663.636,"end":6679.552,"text":"那孫中介他是民國七十六年十一月二號出生在中國大陸地區的中華民國國民也已經涉及在台灣地區伊達、烏西亞"},{"start":6681.994,"end":6702.171,"text":"特別提出註銷證明以至其出生時就具有中華民國國旗孫中將七十六年十一月二號我跟主委講我們的李宗憲委員啊年紀比孫中將還大"},{"start":6703.912,"end":6713.241,"text":"他是1973年也就是民國62年出生他的條件跟孫立孫將軍並不一樣"},{"start":6718.919,"end":6744.152,"text":"他76年開始清查孫中興是76年出生的所以很明顯的民進黨現在就是封標在蔡英文時代某個邏輯著作陸配的參選權所以我們的陸配有很多參與著我們地方的里長議員的選舉"},{"start":6746.773,"end":6773.931,"text":"今天孫將軍的審問跟李正修的人一模一樣請問請問為什麼最後有戶籍跟國籍的問題請主任回答謝謝陳委員的指教有關於您提到這個孫將軍他在71年來台的時候為什麼沒有放棄中華人民共和國的國籍問題第一個就是"},{"start":6776.893,"end":6801.194,"text":"李貞秀女士來台灣的時候,我們兩岸條例已經制定實施了那孫將軍來台的時候,那個時候包括兩岸條例國籍法都還沒有所以孫將軍那個時候還在動員勘斷時期我們那個時候視中共為叛亂團體當然沒有意義去放棄人民共和國國籍的問題"},{"start":6805.277,"end":6828.262,"text":"但是李貞秀女士來台灣的時候,我們兩岸條例已經公佈實施了,我們國際法也有修正,所以我們需要兩岸條例實施了,他才會拿到我們中華民國的身分證,中華民國的護照,也因為兩岸條例的實施啊,是不是?"},{"start":6829.002,"end":6836.484,"text":"所以跟委員報告我們李貞秀女士來到台灣在1999年確實有定居不過那個時候那個時候的陸配都有雙重戶籍的身份但是我們在2004年就規定願意戶籍"},{"start":6857.25,"end":6858.951,"text":"所以他不是說我們就能夠在60年拿回來補償所以海基會在這裡海基會在這裡你正確他放棄我們一起的證明包括他們內容已經經過海基會的認證"},{"start":6873.997,"end":6878.66,"text":"但是失效而言它是2025年3月才回來我們在兩案條例第21條必須轉換身份滿10年才能夠有查得認證內容就在1993年就放棄戶籍1993年的時候沒有要求陸培要放棄戶籍也沒有機關會受理"},{"start":6900.891,"end":6915.64,"text":"我們是在二零零四年 三零零四年來到台灣結婚之後就被放棄入侵我剛剛講的就是依法他沒有接受"},{"start":6920.083,"end":6925.968,"text":"立法院保障維護陸培的參政權利陸培的參政權利面對你 陸培的參政權利完全剝奪了除了你政協委員 還有我們的里長 還有我們的議員 現在在外勤者主政局下 在你局下"},{"start":6942.56,"end":6958.524,"text":"保證卸陸配的參政權我們要依然保障保護陸配的參政權利並沒有這回事那這麼多的里長這麼多的地委還有體中協委員你們就是實質的在拖著啊這不是事實我們在這裡是要維護最重要的事實合法鎖法陸配的權益大家都守法我們希望陸委陸配守法"},{"start":6973.223,"end":6992.456,"text":"我們當然是守法,而且我們是依法行政,我們也是依法取得他們參政的權益,所以是依法取得,所以是依法取得。再一次的強調,我們是政協委員,也是依法取得他立法委員的資格。"},{"start":6993.397,"end":7001.781,"text":"我們還是強調依照我們有事強調我們有事強調我們有事強調所以不具備有符合兩岸條例的參選資格也沒有依照國籍法的要求若實在我們有要補充的再麻煩我們陸委會後續補充是謝謝謝謝委員謝謝主席"},{"start":7026.581,"end":7050.443,"text":"好 謝謝喔 那在執行過程中我還是要補充一下請大家盡量尊重發言的委員另外請我們行政立法兩個機關互相尊重那如果說未來再有行政院的同仁稱呼用性別來稱呼我們的委員的話那很抱歉我可能也會用同樣的方式來稱呼我們行政院的官員以上好 那接下來我們請蘇喬惠委員發言"},{"start":7066.691,"end":7092.927,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們請邱主委好 請邱主委主委好主委好 主委放心我會基於我的立法委員的身分和我的職責對你進行非常正統的發言和質詢謝謝所以我們現在就來討論一下陸委會到底應該要怎麼樣對最近的中國涉台事件能夠在社群媒體中間能夠加強說明"},{"start":7094.708,"end":7114.487,"text":"因為其實我可以看到來第一頁我們看到其實陸委會的執掌確實就是依照第三條有下面這六項那其實每一項都互相關聯啦所以我特別要強調的話因為比較具體的話應該是跟我要講的內容有相關的應該是第六項大陸政策國會聯繫"},{"start":7116.168,"end":7138.856,"text":"以國內外溝通說明和新聞發布的嚴密規劃協調執行所以我們就來看一下就是這一個月我以三月為例以三月為例的話 立委會在您的臉書上面也就是社群粉絲上面大概討論上面的所以我這樣列出來的應該就是你們社群網路上面關心的發布的訊息 對不對有這個"},{"start":7142.319,"end":7158.237,"text":"假訊息的錯誤的錯誤假訊息的澄清嘛對不對那也有這個省副主委去接受專訪的時候那這樣這幾個主委可不可以特別說明一下可以請您說明一下您立委會大概都就哪一方面的訊息你會進行這個說明"},{"start":7161.501,"end":7174.28,"text":"第一個當然是政府的重要的政策的意涵第二個是中國大陸對於我們進行很多的認知作戰混淆了我們的認知這個我們特別要去澄清說明"},{"start":7176.002,"end":7201.137,"text":"那如果是你第二個認知作戰的部分的話也列在你們的重點項目的話那主委我認為我今天質詢的主題就是我認為你們的範圍應該要更寬一點因為其實這幾年來大家對錯假訊息對認知作戰已經都有了初步的概念好 可是呢其實這種製造錯假訊息的技術是日新月異"},{"start":7201.977,"end":7221.753,"text":"那所以我們可能更要到源頭回去讓大家從認識錯假訊息也就是媒體識讀的這方面甚至要前進到哪一些狀態會變成錯假訊息的來源源頭我今天想跟你分享的一個我今天跟討論的一個是我們在上週"},{"start":7223.475,"end":7235.364,"text":"3月14號的時候台灣民主實驗室發布了一個報告他說英國的這個范德堡大學揭露了中國企業中科天機他有一份399頁的文件整理其中就發現有擬定針對台灣的監控計畫"},{"start":7242.009,"end":7258.461,"text":"這其中包括了170份詳細的政治人物檔案2300萬筆封閉來源的台灣戶籍資料以及數以萬計關於宗教學術與商業精英也就是說都是人的記錄然後還包括了70個政壇11478家公司等等哇 這麼多 甚至是有"},{"start":7265.345,"end":7284.113,"text":"13000個宗教團體還有24000個人民團體所以他直接下結論了這份報告直接下結論說這些資料為中天科技提供了一幅有組織的公民與社會生活的廣泛地圖作為影響台灣的基礎然後他會做什麼然後他又利用AI"},{"start":7284.893,"end":7313.892,"text":"深層精工華語台語的高擬真虛擬人物大規模冒充台灣人意圖對台進行認知滲透與分化主任您知道這個訊息嗎我們非常關注這個資訊立委會有什麼態度表示是跟委員報告我想也不僅是這個大量的使用AI的深層式的一些甚至一些深微的一些短影片或者是用這個機器人的假帳號"},{"start":7314.893,"end":7339.741,"text":"以及入職APP透過這些假訊息排山倒海鋪天蓋地來影響我們民主憲政的正常運作甚至在選舉時間的時候進行竊選這個都是非常嚴重的問題那我們陸委會跟各部會都對於中國大陸這些對台的這個透過網路進行對我們認真作戰我們基本上有四個做法"},{"start":7342.403,"end":7355.098,"text":"第二當然就是要快速的揭露我想如果讓這個錯假訊息在我們的網路世界在我們的數位空間影響我們的認知這是太嚴重了"},{"start":7355.418,"end":7365.607,"text":"主委你還在講嚴重我就直接給你看因為我們有準備那等一下你的幾個原則你的處理原則麻煩你簡要說明來我們看一下以現在這樣的狀況來講的話其實現在的階段本來都還在用一些"},{"start":7371.132,"end":7396.984,"text":"你看到很多的比如說我來舉例的話就是這種養生健康的頻道每天都讓你看這些健康的資訊你以為你在讀一些保養什麼膝關節啦血脂肪啦脂肪啊等等之類的狀況可是呢這些健康的網站左邊這邊本來你訂閱的時候長左邊這樣可能在同一天晚上瞬間啪一個就轉過去全部變成了錯假訊息"},{"start":7400.726,"end":7428.571,"text":"全部變成了台灣面臨對岸風險台灣這個有被美日加聯手封殺台灣的這些金融狀況突然出現危機這就是我們平常在預防這些看起來無害的頻道但瞬間就變成了錯假訊息的傳遞管道嘛好 本來這些就已經夠嚴重了可是現在剛剛說的吸收到個資之後他要做什麼"},{"start":7429.071,"end":7440.302,"text":"其實就是運用AI拿到各自運用AI的模型去訓練新的影片生成所以主委其實我本人就已經遇到這樣的狀況了3月9號的時候"},{"start":7444.526,"end":7461.42,"text":"在野黨的主席 國民黨的主席對我進行了一些批評和攻擊之後當天的下午 同一天的下午我卻已經看到了網路上有影片看起來好像是對我個人做了一些深屏視略的簡介當然其中已經包括很多錯誤的資訊 但"},{"start":7463.041,"end":7484.545,"text":"中間就已經包含了國民黨主席在上午對我的批評已經夾進裡面生成這樣的影片從上午有新聞到下午影片我們查詢到這有多久這才幾個小時而已耶這不是很可怕嗎那我們現在看到這份報告裡面剛剛在說的這份報告裡面其實他對這個AI"},{"start":7488.847,"end":7500.838,"text":"認知作戰的閃電認知戰還有具體的KPI是15分鐘內從即時偵測台灣社群媒體輿論熱點到自動生成新影片引導輿論"},{"start":7502.884,"end":7522.293,"text":"主委我覺得我們的狀況我們面臨的處境實在非常非常的險峻所以我們希望的話是陸委會其實不只是對這樣的錯假訊息要能夠澄清這是第一步你們現在暫時有做到了第二個是像現在這一頁列出來的錯假訊息的管道"},{"start":7522.933,"end":7539.393,"text":"要能夠進行討論要進行公告要進行查封查核等等甚至是到前面我們剛剛說的像有這種天氣資訊在天氣科技這樣的資訊大量的蒐集的時候你要怎麼樣讓大家進一步的了解"},{"start":7540.214,"end":7562.348,"text":"AI生成的微影片是可怕的如何去辨識這種影片我想這已經到了第三階段我們要對錯假訊息有新的認識新的做法主任你同意嗎非常同意我剛剛講除了快速接受立即澄清之外還不夠我們還必須要剛剛委員所說的要快速反映依法下降"},{"start":7562.748,"end":7580.394,"text":"我們現在的法律已經有提出來了我們國家安全國安法相關的條文已經針對有一些錯假訊息或證訊它可能危害國家安全跟社會安定之餘我們透過一個機制讓我們可以快速處理然後依法下架"},{"start":7580.854,"end":7607.26,"text":"避免雖然我們澄清但是它還在持續危害當然我們需要透過國際合作因為很多的跨國公司網路平台公司都是跨國公司不像是Google MetaLine或者是我們中國大陸的APP小紅書或者是新加坡的TikTok抖音這個東西我們當然是窮盡一切透過跨國合作來減少這個"},{"start":7609.481,"end":7627.412,"text":"問題的傳播那另外我們也要強調我們要對我們台灣整體社會進行試讀教育試讀中國大陸試讀網路讓大家看到這個錯假訊息啊他不會馬上被引導減少我們增加我們台灣的社會韌性增加我們台灣的民主防衛機制"},{"start":7628.112,"end":7643.465,"text":"我再提醒一次我覺得這是一個比速度的時代比如說剛剛今天的質詢發生了什麼狀況也許陸委會其實就應該要更清楚的對社會做一個說明陸委會的立場和態度是什麼這是一個比速度的時代謝謝主委好我們現在先篆定"},{"start":7655.652,"end":7677.738,"text":"張宏祿委員發言完休息可以嗎張宏祿要嗎四位張宏祿委員發言完休息那接下來我們請黃婕委員發言好謝謝主席我們請邱主委請邱主委"},{"start":7683.904,"end":7707.422,"text":"好 謝謝在請教主委之前我還是要強調今天的程序其實是合法掩護非法因為我看不懂為什麼就是國民黨跟民眾黨的委員要聯合搞一個這樣子首開先例的委員會聯合質詢那破例讓一位為了要護航一位雙重國籍的中國籍民眾那在這邊開了委員會史上的先例"},{"start":7711.564,"end":7727.511,"text":"不好意思喔時間可以暫停嗎因為我們召委不在那我們是不是等召委回來還是你先喊休息好不好是代理召委請尊重代理召委不好意思喔我們先時間先暫停我們先要代理召委回到座位上我們再進行會議"},{"start":7738.14,"end":7741.121,"text":"我們再繼續進行會議主席要是立法委員的身份"},{"start":7757.137,"end":7767.445,"text":"謝謝 我是代理召委我們請讓安心翔召委回到座位上我們再繼續質詢質詢時間暫停請時間暫停時間暫停代理召委宣布時間繼續代理召委宣布時間不要沒收我質詢的權利時間暫停請時間暫停時間暫停"},{"start":7785.455,"end":7795.119,"text":"時間暫停代理召委時間暫停請廖先生召委繼續召開會議我們的會議再繼續進行沒錯沒錯李博義召委也在現場應該優先請李博義召委"},{"start":7814.621,"end":7829.47,"text":"暫行輪值然後請還給我20秒小動作不要這麼多啦小動作不用這麼多啦時間到了委員問題還沒有問完都會讓您問到結束以上謝謝謝謝我要強調的就是今天的程序完全亂了套"},{"start":7844.718,"end":7860.912,"text":"這個聯合質詢如果搞下去未來是不是我也可以登記完之後讓後面所有我想要一起邀請的委員把所有的時間都暫住那這樣子我們一位一位這麼準時八點來登記的這幾位委員對大家請何以堪呢"},{"start":7861.633,"end":7881.148,"text":"所以我必須說委員會的程序就是這樣大家就是先來後到叫著八點到時間誰先登記誰就先質詢如果這個聯合質詢可以這樣搞好啊那大家以後都不用八點來一個人代表就好其他人就跟他一起聯合質詢不就好了嗎那這樣子我們那麼準時早起來到這邊簽到的這些委員對大家來說是把大家裝效為嘛"},{"start":7885.831,"end":7913.07,"text":"所以必須要講說不需要為了護航一個這個雙重國籍的中國籍民眾那為了要創造一個讓行政官員答詢這樣的假象那今天硬搞這一出這完全就是合法掩護非法那非常非常的難看好 那首先也想要請教我們陸委會邱主委請問我們有成功放棄中國籍的民眾來到台灣落地生根嗎"},{"start":7914.557,"end":7925.342,"text":"因為我必須要講上禮拜其實鍾小平議員還有包括宋亦夫這樣子的評論員在節目上都有提到他們有很多的朋友其實都有成功放棄的經驗"},{"start":7927.335,"end":7946.548,"text":"是,跟黃偉仁報告,放棄中國大陸的戶籍來到台灣來轉換身份來到台灣轉換成我們台灣身份的人非常非常多包括現在絕大部分的陸配都是經過轉換身份來到台灣安居樂業"},{"start":7948.129,"end":7964.348,"text":"那至於您剛剛提到轉換這個國籍那目前是中國大陸的政策不讓他們依照合法的程序來放棄可能會遭到一些困難不過"},{"start":7966.07,"end":7988.534,"text":"因為他的國籍法也有相關的一些程序規定當事人也要依照我們的國籍法在任職前 任公職前應該要表達放棄的意思那中國大陸到底會不會給你申請回這個國籍證明至少有一年時間可以來證明不過我要強調我們中華民國的國籍法"},{"start":7992.515,"end":8016.103,"text":"基本上都在落實對中華民國忠誠義務這個單一忠誠義務是針對所有國人一視同仁我們在國際上也許有很多國家他們也很多不能放棄的像阿根廷 墨西哥像沙烏地阿拉伯 摩洛哥像非常多的像巴拉圭"},{"start":8017.463,"end":8043.231,"text":"玻利維亞這些國家他們都沒有辦法放棄所以他們的國民來到我們台灣就算是來擔任我們這是來到我們台灣成為國民他也一樣沒辦法擔任我們的公職因為沒辦法放棄國籍所以我們是針對所有的人都一視同仁不是針對中國大陸的配偶"},{"start":8045.412,"end":8065.214,"text":"刁難我想不讓中國大陸的配偶放棄國籍是中國大陸的政府造成的並不是台灣政府造成的困擾那我們也強調剛剛也說如果任何人沒有放棄對岸的國籍你根據中共的國家安全法國家情報法及反間諜法"},{"start":8066.235,"end":8092.956,"text":"你就必須配合中共收集情報因此會造成他不是違反中共的法律拒絕收集台灣的情報就是違反台灣的法律 洩漏國家機密即無法落實單一效忠同時也讓當事人陷入兩難這是我們的一些目前的一些法律所以我們跟委員報告我們就是依法行政"},{"start":8093.697,"end":8108.881,"text":"好 謝謝丑所委的說明 在這邊也補充一下其實中國全國人大在3月12號有通過這個民族團結進步促進法那它的內容是什麼呢 除了說要求要增進台人對中華民族的認同還強調說會依法追究破壞民族團結的行為那其實這樣的內容跟您剛剛提到的這個反間諜法 國家情報法 國家安全法"},{"start":8118.604,"end":8145.295,"text":"其實都是相似的而且非常的嚴重也就是說我們在無法確認一位這樣子的公職對台灣有單一效忠的前提之前你對有中國籍你就是要必須遵守這些中國的法律你可能要被迫要收集相關的情報你可能如果你沒有表達促銅的話你可能還要被懲罰所以單一效忠非常非常的重要是嗎"},{"start":8146.144,"end":8174.249,"text":"是 各位委員報告您剛剛提到在這次的中共兩會它有通過民族團結進步促進法那這部法我們很關注我們關注的除了對於中國大陸內部的少數民族會帶來很大的這個鎮壓的效果單一化的效果因為這個法律呢它可以說把民族團結國家統一都把它結合起來"},{"start":8174.969,"end":8190.764,"text":"而且要接受中國共產黨的全面領導而且你有國家統一的義務包括剛剛委員所說的你就是在中華人民共和國境外的個人跟組織也被包含在內"},{"start":8191.965,"end":8210.49,"text":"他在裡面條文也特別針對台灣民眾要增進對中華民族的這個認同感歸屬感榮譽感所以他是有涵蓋但是我要特別強調的他這個在法律上的可能會涉及到未來"},{"start":8212.17,"end":8220.957,"text":"你就算是迫害統一你也要負責法律的這個責任所謂迫害統一像我們懲罰22條原本他應該只是針對有這個台獨作為人來立案調查來懲治但是現在李恩"},{"start":8232.233,"end":8253.958,"text":"破壞統一的人也就是說你就算是維持現狀你不表態你甚至是支持中華民國你只要沒有支持中共的統一政策你可能就是成為他法律制裁的對象是啦我在這邊幫主委白話問一下就是說如果你的人民就算保持沉默可能都會被認為是在促進統一"},{"start":8254.778,"end":8272.649,"text":"也就是你沒有堅決表態兩岸要促同你可能就被他認為是沒有在符合我們的法律你這樣的理解是非常非常誇張你以為我們很多藝人在中國大陸有一些表演他在過特定的節日都要求他表態 俗成"},{"start":8273.65,"end":8297.761,"text":"我們這些藝人啊連不表態的自由都沒有所以未來他立法的就是說你只要破壞統一破壞民族團結就會利用這個法對所以我在這邊是希望主委我們陸委會一定要站穩立場是這個相關的法律剛剛主委也說得非常清楚了所以單一效忠單一國籍非常非常的重要放棄國籍放棄戶籍再來談台灣的參政權謝謝謝謝美恩"},{"start":8308.902,"end":8318.249,"text":"好 接下來我們請王美惠委員發言好麻煩邱主委"},{"start":8326.428,"end":8353.471,"text":"黃議員你好主委你好現在中國對台灣已經不是單一的手段了現在包括軍人也好、法律也好有很多認知作戰的方法在這裡我們不用說跟軍人一臉不在我們的天關背來背去會把我們撩亂我們的生活"},{"start":8354.383,"end":8360.607,"text":"在這個過程當中,中國的創華會帶動22條說實在的,主委,在這個過程當中,你覺得他們這樣做是不是會認知作戰?"},{"start":8376.305,"end":8390.621,"text":"所以 2024年6月21號發布的懲毒22條跨境鎮壓一方面它有實際的這個恫嚇台灣人民更重要的它就是認知作戰來分化台灣內部"},{"start":8393.644,"end":8411.466,"text":"這個審讀22條啊只要你不是支持中共的對台統一政策你包括維持現狀的主張你包括支持支持中華民國因為他這個法律非常寬鬆都是一些不確定的概念所以我想你剛才講這個就是讓你怕"},{"start":8414.663,"end":8421.368,"text":"主委 我想跟你談到的就是說今天你站在中華民國的所在國會上是要去保障我們中華民國台灣人的權利跟他的行動不管他是對台灣中不中畢竟他去到"},{"start":8436.221,"end":8444.684,"text":"中國做生意的當中剛才你也報告在這兩三年的時候你們的統計有383個在這幾個月前就已經有37個了在這個過程裡面"},{"start":8455.868,"end":8471.597,"text":"黑數非常的多啦,在這兩天,我們是要跟你說的,跟你們三八十三個,跟村的那些,你們要怎麼去關心,去關懷,來,主委,你回答一下,是,感謝王議員關心這件事情,我們還機會,對這三八十三個人的家屬,我們有一個"},{"start":8483.244,"end":8496.019,"text":"聯合關懷小組,去找他們的事大人關心,是怎樣沒辦法回來,怎樣去讓大陸開起來這很多事情,我們都有在做有在做可以說,還是有在做還有在說"},{"start":8503.373,"end":8510.871,"text":"我們要求對岸人要趕快給家屬一個清楚的答覆而且要進行保障他們的私人安全"},{"start":8513.8,"end":8532.832,"text":"我們也不斷的透過管道要求啦我跟你們講最重要的是國人要有危機風險的意識沒有必要的旅行沒有必要的行程就不要前往這個是最重要每個人都有這種風險你看我們從這個2024年這55間"},{"start":8539.036,"end":8563.097,"text":"過一年超過四倍221件到現在每個月多於百分之以20件的數字在增加剛才委員說的很好還有很多黑數沒有跟我們講我們報案的就有這些那沒有報案的更多所以我跟你說的我們就是認知的方式來 主委我們是跟你說的黑數你大約才能整個有多少嗎"},{"start":8566.049,"end":8589.037,"text":"同仁有跟我說可能會比我們來報案的多三倍是啦我們有評估可能有三倍之多啦黑數我們同仁一般學者的評估也要我們關注主委我們要跟你談到的就是說在這個過程當中有的是在那裡做選議有的是在那裡吃頭肉是但是他的沒有來他也沒辦法說什麼他沒辦法說就不行啦主委"},{"start":8596.359,"end":8622.381,"text":"你知不知道,現在是他們的法律變成這樣,不公開法,跟你們不講又不行因為司法就是不透明,充滿黑箱所以我們的國人在大陸,如果被他因為法律限制人身自由往往得不到好的司法的救濟跟保障,對當事人的家屬也是煎熬"},{"start":8623.041,"end":8631.387,"text":"所以我們最主要呼籲國人如果沒有把握的話不要輕易到中國大陸進行不必要的行程"},{"start":8653.181,"end":8657.065,"text":"很嚴重的,在這個過程當中,他可以告訴我,北省不知道要怎麼處理在這個過程,你們去選擇,你們說這未來要怎麼做才是好的"},{"start":8669.378,"end":8671.72,"text":"因為我覺得在這裡做生意也好,在這裡吃套路也好,在這裡做菜也好,我們都要去考慮到"},{"start":8692.358,"end":8693.219,"text":"他們在那裡的生活、態度會風險所以主委在這個過程當中你也看到最近台灣人也好、外國人也好"},{"start":8707.375,"end":8727.276,"text":"跟花姐台灣加油就不行了咧主委,你會覺得台灣人要跟中華民國、跟台灣做朋友在那個比賽花姐台灣加油,還是自己跟自己的國家加油啊不行咧"},{"start":8728.396,"end":8736.139,"text":"是 尤其我們現在在大陸常常很多的台商 他們的政治風險越來越高以前他們有很多問題 現在又要擔心他們政治的風險沒有啦 主委 這個過程 你說的風險啦也有很多人去搞風險不知道啦 是所以我們要所有的單位"},{"start":8751.504,"end":8773.04,"text":"一旦來合作的時候,最近發生的事情有時候不公開的,有時候很嚴重的包括你剛才說那次事件的時候,他們的人完全沒辦法聯絡到他到現在啦,跟他人家互相碰面說,跟你還不可以報案啦這這樣有好處嗎?沒有好處?社會在你們這個單位,不管什麼啦"},{"start":8780.665,"end":8800.601,"text":"我們是一定要保護中華民國台灣人,這是最要緊的我們會跟其他的政府部門一起合作,來確保國人的安全在這個過程當中,他們一屆一屆設的法律是要打壓中華民國的法律改變"},{"start":8802.202,"end":8823.166,"text":"所以在這個過程中間有說,現在高雷什麼人去交代做生意,不可以去哪裡?因為有的一定到處擠在那裡,不在那裡做也沒辦法,所以你要怎麼去保護,那是最重要的事。是我們的抱抱,我們的努力,感謝委員。"},{"start":8830.711,"end":8856.016,"text":"好 我們接下來請王宏威委員發言好 首先我們的昭緯辛苦了那我覺得昭緯今天處理得非常非常好必須要做肯定好 那我想接下來請一下我們蘇嘉全董事長"},{"start":8857.011,"end":8879.383,"text":"那個王國遠抱歉那個先暫停一下剛剛一開始有宣告如果說我們有海基會的業務的話我們是因為業務都是祕書長在負責那我們先由祕書長來答詢那如果說有祕書長沒辦法回答的問題的時候我們再請這個蘇董事長上台答詢可是蘇董事長已經有出席啊很有誠意"},{"start":8881.03,"end":8896.005,"text":"您堅持的話,我當然是尊重委員,只是說我們一開始有這樣做好,我想先問一下蘇董事長的意願,對,尊重你的意願好,那就麻煩蘇董事長我想因為董事長都已經非常有誠意的出席,想要謝謝"},{"start":8897.656,"end":8917.284,"text":"董事長首先歡迎您回娘家謝謝您擔任過我們立法院院長現在到海基會當董事長我想請問一下院長因為院長基本上您在當時就任的時候還是強調兩岸要交流要對話對不對"},{"start":8918.985,"end":8945.839,"text":"那我想請問一下像這一陣子就是有關於李貞秀委員的這些爭議那您剛才自己也本身親臨現場看到其實大家這樣的一個這個光是為了他的質詢的從上個星期到現在您認為李貞秀委員的事件會不會影響到兩岸的交流跟對話"},{"start":8948.649,"end":8971.426,"text":"我覺得相關的問題還是陸委會來回答比較好為什麼因為海基會是一個平台我們不管講會影響還是講不會影響我覺得都太主觀那行政部門應該就要來評估不是海基會"},{"start":8972.513,"end":8988.798,"text":"所以對董事長來說,海基會作為一個兩岸的平台,您認為還是他必須要有這樣的一個交流和對話的功能是嗎?這個海基會跟海協會的交流一直都有"},{"start":8990.437,"end":9012.766,"text":"不然我們 一年我們服務的案件有將近31萬件如果平常沒有交流那根本就無法來服務31萬件只是比較高層次的這個對話現在是沒有 平常的交流還是在繼續"},{"start":9013.866,"end":9026.222,"text":"所以您當任董事長您剛剛也講已經兩個月了嘛您的感受是希望在兩岸之間因為我剛剛講包含李貞秀委員這個事件其實某一個程度也會影響我認為是會影響的包含"},{"start":9030.027,"end":9047.226,"text":"國內在國內的大陸籍配偶其實我們現在有時候我們到地方也會大家會有這個對於陸籍配偶也會質疑他的參政權是不是受到影響的問題所以您個人會不會認為說其實我們在對話跟交流的部分應該還要加把勁"},{"start":9048.96,"end":9074.86,"text":"海基會在每一個時刻我們都非常努力在服務兩岸的人民跟台商所以不管在台灣因為政治的因素怎麼樣來做一些彼此之間的攻防都不影響海基會要服務兩岸人民跟台商這麼一個功能"},{"start":9075.12,"end":9083.99,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝蘇嘉全董事長那雖然因為剛才其實我們召委有說明但是非常感謝你還是願意上來來做詢問謝謝 謝謝董事長好 那個時間暫停那請我們陸委會主委"},{"start":9096.037,"end":9118.374,"text":"主委剛才黃建委員問您一個問題事實上我覺得您有點糊弄過去他是請教你就你所了解到目前為止有沒有大陸人民來到台灣插曲的這個戶籍落籍之後他有成功放棄中華人民共和國的國籍有沒有人完成過"},{"start":9119.52,"end":9144.563,"text":"放棄中華人民共和國國籍有沒有人完成過戶籍沒有問題 國籍如果他有取得其他國家國籍如果是陸配的話是有相當的困難所以你所了解應該是沒有取得他們官方的證明是有困難"},{"start":9146.244,"end":9170.638,"text":"有這個因為媒體啊就是這個名嘴怎麼講啊因為他們根本不是陸委會也不是海基會所以如果按照您所了解至少到目前為止在台灣的大陸籍不管是配偶或大陸籍人士在台灣取得戶籍但他沒有成功放棄中華人民共和國國籍而現在而現在我們內政部"},{"start":9171.078,"end":9198.009,"text":"一再要求就李貞秀委員一定要放棄國籍他才保有這個立法委員的身份這會不會強人所難跟委員報告我們的國籍法當然我們不是內政部我們不是他主管機關就我們了解國籍法它有分兩段第一段就是你在就職前你就必須放棄那放棄你要表達你主觀的態度意願要出來"},{"start":9198.993,"end":9216.588,"text":"那到底中國大陸政府願不願意發出一個證明說你已經放棄可是他沒有辦法發出就說按照你們的經驗值他至少有一個按照我們經驗值中國大陸政府可能會阻擾不會配合他不會配合所以這個其實真的某一個程度是強人所難"},{"start":9217.969,"end":9244.165,"text":"但是我要講的說我們現在政府是一個精神錯亂的政府為什麼呢?按照你們今天的報告你的口頭報告第二頁就講說就說今天對國家負有高度忠誠義務的軍公教人員要查核他有沒有中共的身份證等等之類的然後避免軍公教人員施政因兩岸雙重身份導致外界質疑"},{"start":9244.865,"end":9252.673,"text":"所以這包含這個立法委員也要求你不得有所謂的雙重國籍可是好笑了當這個義男他說我現在"},{"start":9258.381,"end":9274.772,"text":"這個已經入籍了中國大陸已經入籍中國大陸那我可以不用服役了吧一男這不是軍公教嗎不是軍人嗎結果內政部說沒有關係你即便喪失台灣的身份啊你還是要服役啊"},{"start":9275.732,"end":9298.838,"text":"這不是雙重標準嗎如果你今天覺得立法委員是有機敏性難道G隊裡面沒有機敏性嗎一南都告訴你我現在沒有台灣身份我現在是中國大陸籍的身份有他的戶籍然後但是我們的政府說不行你仍然需要進入G隊需要去當兵所以我要講的是這部分我們的邏輯是不是錯亂啊"},{"start":9303.1,"end":9331.154,"text":"跟委員報告 我們的邏輯來自於我們依法行政在兩岸條例第九條之一 雙標本不 我們就是依法行政跟委員報告 您剛剛說的這些我們軍公教對國家要效忠的這個我們不能在兩岸有雙重的這些身份包括申領他們的身份證戶籍那這部分我們從我們公務員做起 越南不是軍人越南不是軍公教嗎"},{"start":9331.934,"end":9354.691,"text":"是那你剛剛提到那個是我們說你在台灣擁有台灣身份但是你取得中國大陸身份你就會喪失台灣的身份以及因台灣的戶籍所有的權利但是你的義務並不因此而失去所以這個時候你們要引用兩岸人民關係條例"},{"start":9357.613,"end":9379.731,"text":"老師說啦 當你們認為在兩岸人民之間不適用兩岸人民關係條例而要適用國籍法的時候其實我們最近就一直在直接的挑戰你們主委啊 其實你們應該揮刀自攻啦既然要配合這個兩岸是一邊一國 要適用國籍法的話"},{"start":9380.532,"end":9407.277,"text":"其實陸委會真的可以揮刀自攻直接把廢除掉兩岸人民關係條例直接廢除掉陸委會否則的話就會出現這樣的雙標以及整個的邏輯錯亂跟委員報告我們沒有雙標跟委員報告我們兩岸條例第21條就是我們會依法維護保障陸配的參政權不管是登記為公職候選人"},{"start":9409.437,"end":9425.404,"text":"或者是應考市府公職當你拒絕回答李徵秀委員的質詢的時候當你現在還在講說我們會依法保障陸配的參政權的時候真的非常非常的諷刺"},{"start":9426.364,"end":9443.916,"text":"因為現在不是只有李貞秀委員而已現在連基層的陸委會的參政權你們陸委會都沒有保障而且你們並沒有依照兩岸人民關係條例的基礎去保障他們好委員這不是事實我們依法保障好謝謝委員好我們接著請張宏祿委員發言"},{"start":9465.246,"end":9486.113,"text":"我請邱主委麻煩邱主委總委好主委早上很多人都問你同樣的問題我只問你一句有雙重國籍的人在依台灣的法令可不可以任民意代表"},{"start":9488.373,"end":9505.601,"text":"跟委員報告,如果有中華民國以外的國籍身份,當然不能任公職,包括民意代表?對嘛,就一句很簡單嘛,照法令來行事就好了嘛,對不對?你陸委會是國籍法的主管機關嗎?"},{"start":9506.781,"end":9520.045,"text":"我們是配合內政部,內政部才是國際法的主管機關所以啊,你陸委會也是要遵照台灣所有的法令嗎?是對不對?對啊,就一句話很簡單的問題嘛我想要請問一下"},{"start":9525.509,"end":9543.363,"text":"中國它今年在2026兩會強調十五五規劃裡面有一個台包同等待遇這件事情你們有沒有關注到?是,它對台的融合發展"},{"start":9544.584,"end":9567.559,"text":"就是同等待遇那我們都有關注到他可能會他以前就講過不過從今年開始我想他會加大力度用一些好處利益吸引我們的年輕朋友去那邊就業吸引我們的資金技術到中國大陸參與他們的紅色供應鏈用這個來彰顯他們對台的促統促榮"},{"start":9574.163,"end":9585.588,"text":"它裡面最主要的核心就像你說的透過經濟利益跟生活便利來吸引人才跟企業但人才"},{"start":9587.379,"end":9612.478,"text":"我認為他是把年輕人放在重點用錢用利益這樣子吸引年輕人這不是一般的商業的攬柴而已他是重點很針對我們的半導體產業在全世界舉足輕重但如果"},{"start":9613.439,"end":9617.429,"text":"他用錢把我們剛畢業的學生全部都"},{"start":9619.602,"end":9648.014,"text":"吸引到中國去那對台灣未來的發展我認為是有很大的影響你認為勒是我們平時也在做這個中國大陸基於他統戰持續我們的年輕人或是我們的企業之間到中國大陸發展但是我們就要提出一些風險方面的這種宣導比如說中國大陸現在年輕人的失業率居高不下"},{"start":9648.914,"end":9675.594,"text":"中國大陸的經濟在下行外資外商撤離那麼嚴重房地產市場非常不正不敢消費不敢投資這樣的經濟的實況我們要讓我們的年輕朋友知道所以我們在校園也好在校園外的各種的嗜毒教育這個是我們日委會跟其他部會一起都在努力的事情讓他們都了解中國大陸的風險"},{"start":9677.795,"end":9688.884,"text":"不要受到中國大陸只是宣傳統戰的影響中國要吸引台灣的年輕人或人才附中你認為是糖衣還是毒藥"},{"start":9691.077,"end":9718.194,"text":"我想短期對於一定會有一些吸引力但長期他往往我們也了解做了不少的研究跟實際上面的經驗就是常常口惠而實不至那中國大陸的這一種就業的市場還有他們的法律各方面都跟台灣有很大的不同那我們很多年輕人不了解"},{"start":9719.535,"end":9741.711,"text":"而有一些風險那這部分就是我們要透過各種管道來強化我們年輕朋友對中國大陸的識讀的了解透過各種我們都知道然後我想要請問一下我們陸委會知道這個問題那你有沒有跟經濟部啊比如說經濟部、國會、教育部等等各個部會有去協調有讓我們年輕人有知道這個訊息"},{"start":9745.878,"end":9762.751,"text":"宣傳的部分或是在做宣導的工作如果會做的比較多但是我們很多重要的資訊我剛剛講中國大陸資訊下行他們自己都高失業率了怎麼可能照顧更多的台灣的年輕朋友"},{"start":9763.792,"end":9791.619,"text":"以及我們到中國大陸求學的人數也在減少去那邊工作的人也在減少這個是從市場規律就可以看出這樣的問題此外剛剛很多委員也質詢到除了經濟下行的問題不管是內部經濟的不正的問題或是對外可能受到其他國家的一些抵制的問題因為過度傾銷還有很多剛剛很多委員也指教很多的政治風險"},{"start":9793.219,"end":9814.405,"text":"這也是越來越嚴重而且逼著每個台商都要去做政治表態這個是過去所沒有的風險那我們不僅是台商不然是我們年輕朋友都要了解目前最新狀況的中國大陸生活環境跟他們的經商的環境跟過去有很大的不同主委"},{"start":9815.245,"end":9830.1,"text":"我現在質詢你,你可以講這些,但你要知道,年輕人他的管道,他知道你說的這些嗎?我剛強調的是,你要跨部會啊,包括教育部,包括什麼的啊。我們都有,謝謝。都有,我覺得我看到的很少,你們都有。"},{"start":9835.205,"end":9862.419,"text":"您剛也說,你們說的比較多喔是,我們很多計畫都是跟各部會一起合作你說在校園裡面的很多試讀教育我們的跟教育部都有很多的計畫在推動那也感謝教育部啦,或是沒有啦,我覺得啦其實我自己在很多的管道,很多什麼我覺得啦,宣傳不足啦"},{"start":9863.139,"end":9891.212,"text":"反而是人家加大力道透過各種管道在宣傳這些我們的宣傳的真的不足如果只靠你陸委會我說真的年輕人也不一定每天去看你們陸委會所有的資訊他要就業他要什麼的他可能經濟部教育部什麼的這是最多對不對我希望你們要有跨部會的合作"},{"start":9892.812,"end":9903.456,"text":"可以嗎當然要這也是很必要以陸委會的資源那麼少那我們確實需要各部會一起協力來推動好 謝謝謝謝委員好 我們休息五分鐘"},{"start":9927.772,"end":9927.792,"text":"哈囉"},{"start":9948.022,"end":9950.404,"text":"你看我們這稍微第一天就這麼棒"},{"start":9973.637,"end":9975.298,"text":"是每天嗎?每月二十五"},{"start":9991.589,"end":9991.889,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":10022.669,"end":10023.11,"text":"還那麼多"},{"start":10056.759,"end":10056.959,"text":"謝謝大家。"},{"start":10068.098,"end":10079.38,"text":"鸡蛋糕"},{"start":10103.312,"end":10118.502,"text":"謝謝大家。"},{"start":10131.338,"end":10131.418,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":10133.248,"end":10133.828,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":10174.778,"end":10175.538,"text":"放鬆一點點"},{"start":10188.882,"end":10189.643,"text":"我現在是"},{"start":10211.617,"end":10213.238,"text":"好 我們繼續開會 請徐信義委員發言"},{"start":10246.808,"end":10250.872,"text":"謝謝主席 本席有請我們陸委會邱主委邱主委好 邱主委好今天本席要談的最主要是我們台灣人民的人身安全"},{"start":10269.192,"end":10283.778,"text":"那現在正在跨境受到威脅您認同嗎是已經有好多件跨境鎮壓的案例了對我看到陸委會的報告你們自己的報告寫有313件案件"},{"start":10286.7,"end":10302.378,"text":"313次到中國大陸去因為刑方不明或是受到他法律限制我們人身自由我們不能回來還有失蹤的對 114人失聯174人疑似被限制人身自由這是你們的報告"},{"start":10303.539,"end":10331.422,"text":"那這中間一定也還有黑數吧你們有掌握嗎所以我們也注意到這些是有來跟我們報案的那沒有報案的更多所以這些黑數可能是更多所以我們也要關注更重要的是這個數字它仍然以每個月20件在增加所以主委你都發現每個月20件在增加所以我們就看出這個是不是形成一個制度性的風險"},{"start":10333.391,"end":10349.697,"text":"所以我們要提醒國人,復入還是要有風險所以已經形成制度性的風險了你們難道沒有保護制度,你們只能提醒啊所以難怪大家一直說陸委會該裁撤你現在制度性風險你怎麼辦"},{"start":10352.662,"end":10376.491,"text":"是 跟委員報告我們由於跟中國大陸過去也有兩岸共同打擊犯罪司法互助合作的機制好像是在馬英九總統執政好像民進黨執政之後都沒有雙方仍然仍然透過既有的溝通聯繫機制我們要讓對方去了解維護兩岸民眾的權益這個很重要"},{"start":10379.952,"end":10390.519,"text":"那我們還是按照這個機制去維護你按照這個機制那現在面對你自己都承認這是形成一個制度性風險你到底有沒有掌握嘛你掌握多少呢"},{"start":10391.095,"end":10416.585,"text":"是 我們也不斷透過各種的宣傳管道要國人出入那你還是提醒 你還是宣傳而已沒有那個制度啊沒有數據就沒有治理嘛所以我請問你你有沒有了解哪些地區最危險你總是要給我們民眾你提醒之外你要給他一些更明確的東西哪些地區最危險"},{"start":10418.015,"end":10433.854,"text":"沒有 沒有掌握哪些身份最容易被鎖定我覺得他散佈在各個地方中國各主要的 當你程式為主各地方都有對啊 所以你就是沒有掌握你才會這樣講那我再問你 哪些身份最容易被鎖定"},{"start":10436.241,"end":10458.412,"text":"各種身份都有你比如說我們曾經擔任機敏工作的人或者是擔任公務人員、副路都很容易被對岸的相關人員接觸機敏工作跟擔任過公務員的"},{"start":10460.033,"end":10480.433,"text":"對 比如說他過去可能擔任一些安全工作 很容易被接觸你那個313件 你能掌握的裡面 我問你失聯的跟疑似被限制人身自由裡面有多少比例是公務員 多少比例是你說的機敏身份 你跟我講這個比例我們事後可以給委員"},{"start":10482.304,"end":10511.263,"text":"所以你們沒有掌握我們都有掌握包括委員很關心的我們很多像一貫道的朋友在中國大陸被逮捕或是審判所以是不是一貫道的身份也是很容易被鎖定他風險比較高他如果有傳教的行為哪些活動風險高這我第三個要問的哪些活動風險高"},{"start":10513.205,"end":10534.067,"text":"我想他各種的類型當然有些在中國大陸從事犯罪當然被他們的相關法律限制人身自由當然這是相當大的比例不過我們最近發生一個比例我們越來越覺得就是這個刑方不明失蹤的案例這個報案的人數有增加"},{"start":10534.599,"end":10547.103,"text":"那到底什麼類型嘛 到底什麼樣的身份 哪些地區或它是哪些活動的風險最高這三個問題你們一直講出來 我們事後可以再編啊相關的那個細項我們是規劃了很多類型 我們都願意提供給委員來參考"},{"start":10557.367,"end":10580.1,"text":"你身為陸委會主委你應該對你這就是台灣大陸地區連這樣的一個問題你都沒辦法掌握好最後我再講你們的登錄系統你知道只有幾%登錄嗎你知道嗎我們大概都維持在2點多對啊整個登錄系統就2%那我問你另外98%的人呢沒有進入到保護系統"},{"start":10581.519,"end":10586.292,"text":"所以我不知道陸委會在做什麼是委員我們在"},{"start":10587.82,"end":10612.635,"text":"這幾年中國大陸人數有大幅增加但是我們登錄的人數也增加蠻多至少這兩年我們登錄的人數跟比例都有增加你再怎麼增加你就2%那98%呢所以我們說絕對不是只有宣導你就是沒有機制 沒有制度"},{"start":10614.054,"end":10635.92,"text":"你只能一直宣導所以我想要問的是我們這個接著你國人如果被留置反正前面我的所有問題你們大概都沒辦法回答那我現在再問一個最關鍵的我們國人如果被留置的時候請問政府怎麼做"},{"start":10637.878,"end":10656.846,"text":"你有沒有單一窗口?你有沒有SOP標準作業程序?我們還是透過兩岸的司法還是只有一個有機會的只讀不回的傳真機?當然不是如此我們仍然在兩岸共打還有相關的機制"},{"start":10657.586,"end":10682.9,"text":"那我們把相關的人在中國大陸刑方不免或是犯什麼稅你有沒有單一窗口你先回答這個問題還是在詢問中國大陸到底我們國人下落何在或是犯了什麼刑法我們這回剛剛也說我們風險的提醒我們都一直在講來講去就只有提醒"},{"start":10684.821,"end":10708.397,"text":"所以我在前面的會期就講 你就改成叫對大陸宣傳委員會因為你只會做宣傳好 最後我還要再問你剛剛講有有有 什麼都有請問你平均處理時間多少發生事情之後你成功的聯繫率又是多少你的KPI在哪裡你回答我"},{"start":10710.259,"end":10733.109,"text":"我們至少都有跟每一位家屬都有到家戶的訪談要保護我們的國人這不是政府的責任嗎我們提供各種法律各方面的協助他的家屬而且台灣跟對岸不管經商旅遊甚至各種的活動這麼的頻繁今天本席的所有問題"},{"start":10734.309,"end":10758.521,"text":"主委我很遺憾你都沒有辦法給明確的回答而且都感覺到我們的陸委會真的沒有這個我要跟委員講我們六位同仁 海基會同仁各部會同仁都盡心盡力今天唯一造成這個效果成效不好我想對岸婦有很大的責任他們刻意的政治杯葛我們這是兩岸風險之所在"},{"start":10759.301,"end":10782.53,"text":"但是我們自我要求的 包括現在國人登錄的人數也是明顯增加等於上一屆當立委的時候 國民黨執政沒有這個問題啦所以你現在什麼責任推給別人也很容易嘛成功者找方法 失敗者找理由所以我們希望陸委會加油好不好 謝謝謝謝委員 我們會努力"},{"start":10790.575,"end":10803.23,"text":"我們接下來請李博義召委發言謝謝 又請邱主委麻煩邱主委"},{"start":10809.404,"end":10830.924,"text":"主委辛苦,我想陸委會的工作實在是非常的辛苦我想要先從左院長訪日這個行程來先跟你談起那從左院長可以成功到日本為台灣隊加油其實那一刻我也在場,我是非常感動的因為我知道這背後有太多太多人不能講的努力"},{"start":10832.625,"end":10860.406,"text":"包含這個整個包機的過程包含出境整個過程都不能驚擾到中共的敏感神經我曾經在高雄市政府服務的時候那個時候的城局市長他其實在出訪的時候也會邀國民黨的議員一同然後看看這一次出訪這些內容結果發生了一件事情有一個國民黨的議員我也不知道是誰啦"},{"start":10861.127,"end":10880.451,"text":"跑去跟中國時報的記者說陳菊這一次去古巴有可能會看到卡斯楚結果那一天我在邁阿密跟陳菊前市長飛到哈瓦那的時候我排隊排在他後面過不去了"},{"start":10883.413,"end":10900.445,"text":"中共看到媒體報導之後會採取的任何動作即使去到中南美洲影響力還在那這就是左院長這一趟行程為什麼要保密的原因那我也看到為什麼"},{"start":10903.258,"end":10915.788,"text":"當卓院長踏上這個東京巨蛋的時候國台辦第一時間馬上跳出來的這些反應主委你有意識到嗎你事先知道嗎那我們要怎麼因應是我想"},{"start":10917.168,"end":10936.673,"text":"我們包括卓院長的外交突破做了很多保密的工作一方面不要讓我們相對的國家為難二方面又能夠突破這意義重大那重點是中國大陸現在還是無所不用其極"},{"start":10938.474,"end":10957.655,"text":"來外交打壓外交封鎖我們所以現在外交突破的工作都國人都應該要來支持全力的來支持所以你對國際辦的回應你有什麼回應我想兩岸關係最主要的障礙就是"},{"start":10958.772,"end":10976.755,"text":"中共不願意正視中華民國存在的客觀事實他不願意在國際間能夠尊重中華民國做一個國家對外進行交往的權利他說權利在封殺"},{"start":10978.401,"end":10999.615,"text":"目前他也透過不管雙邊多邊能夠形塑所謂國際一中持續在打壓台灣的生存台灣的國家主權象徵等等確實我們陸委會常常跟外交部說我們面臨的壓力本質都是相同的"},{"start":11000.876,"end":11028.441,"text":"那我們絕對不棄捏我們繼續來突破好 身為執政黨還有身為覺得如果我們台灣身為台灣人民我覺得我們的行政院長可以踏上日本那在雙方有默契的情況下讓這件事情成行我覺得應該是給予鼓勵很遺憾我們的在野黨全部都在譴責很遺憾我們的在野黨全部都用各種方法的在挑骨頭這我們表示非常遺憾另外"},{"start":11029.181,"end":11054.726,"text":"我要講一個事實存在的觀點主委你剛講得很清楚李貞秀女士沒有辦法放棄中國國籍的原因沒有辦法放棄中國國籍是誰的原因我想是中國大陸政府阻撓她為什麼中國大陸政府為什麼要這樣我講給你聽中國政府"},{"start":11056.302,"end":11076.868,"text":"堅持不會讓他放棄國籍的原因其實就是要造成一個事實跟早上民眾黨要合法掩護非法一樣他造成一個有中國戶籍中國國籍的人站在立法院的立法委員的講台上他造成這個事實他讓國際看讓國際看 你看"},{"start":11081.032,"end":11106.781,"text":"這台灣的立法院我們中國人也是成功站上去了那所以我為什麼在擔任召委的時候我會尊重行政院可以不用尋答我想要在國際上也讓國際的友人也讓國際知道台灣是民主法治針對中國想要造成既定事實我們沒有接受來 主委這一個既定事實你接受嗎"},{"start":11109.373,"end":11132.183,"text":"跟委員報告修正一下我們不能讓他成為既定事實主委你要怎麼做我們就是依法行政我們剛剛講到不管是他現在不具備有兩岸條例參選的資格之外剛剛您特別強調他也沒有照我們國際法的要求落實對中華民國單一效忠的義務"},{"start":11133.856,"end":11160.924,"text":"所以他是雙重違法在這種情況底下我們今天我們就是依法行政我們沒有辦法接受一個不具備立委資格的人對行政官員進行質詢我們認為合法的立委才具有憲法的質詢權好另外我再重述為什麼針對李貞秀的女士的所知我們不能配合的原因"},{"start":11161.764,"end":11182.039,"text":"台上七分鐘台下七個小時他可以做什麼台上七分鐘他可以捍衛自己認為是中國沒有辦法給他放棄國籍的身份不是他的原因台下七個小時他可以跟內政部索取國土安全之關鍵基礎設施他可以跟儘管"},{"start":11183.64,"end":11203.69,"text":"陸出境管理局來要求這些所謂的監控名單他可以跟警政署維安特勤要索資讓國家元首讓國家首長可能都遭遇危險他可以索資要求這些敏感地區他可以對海委會海巡署索資要求海域情資細思"},{"start":11205.171,"end":11227.938,"text":"而且他要求這些內容如果提供的話他又將面對中國包含反間諜法、國安法懲讀22條他是會被沈博洋委員那麼明確效忠台灣中華民國他也會被跨海通緝何況是李貞秀女士啊請、禮、罰我們都不可以同意"},{"start":11228.698,"end":11243.202,"text":"是,委員我們很贊成,因為任何人只要沒有放棄對岸的國籍按照中共的國家安全法、國家情報法、反間諜法他就必須配合中共收集情報所以這個對他而言"},{"start":11245.063,"end":11261.015,"text":"要不然他違反中共的法律拒絕收集台灣情報那要不然就違反台灣的法律來洩漏我們國家的機密所以這個不管怎麼樣都是無法落實對台灣關鍵就是效忠誰對不對對好謝謝謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":11273.032,"end":11287.058,"text":"我們接下來請張志倫委員發言好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早有請邱承正邱主委麻煩邱主委"},{"start":11293.072,"end":11319.489,"text":"三位好 主委好主委根據我們最新我們台灣國人的民調在去年的年中針對我們的兩岸關係的僵局就是採取持續對抗的方式我們有高達六成三的民眾強烈表達不滿那今年我們最新的這個民調顯示超高達五成的民眾擔心兩岸內在五年內會開戰"},{"start":11321.87,"end":11333.604,"text":"所以我們可以看到從愛新澤政府上台上任以來兩岸的關係持續緊繃我們很擔心現在的民進黨政府就是用對抗來取代對話尤其這個"},{"start":11337.087,"end":11360.956,"text":"陸委會最近接受媒體訪問的時候說兩岸交流的核心是要去風險跟去政治化然後也是希望說繼續積極來溝通對話努力朝下避免衝突的方向來前進那我想要請教主委您的看法兩岸的部分就您的看法有沒有辦法降低對抗以及降低兩岸發生衝突戰爭的風險"},{"start":11363.157,"end":11389.339,"text":"謝謝張委員的那個槌尋我想你剛剛講的都我們的政策我們就是維持現狀不卑不亢維持現狀那我們也希望兩岸能夠在對等尊嚴進行健康有序的交流那我們希望中國大陸要放棄敵意思維要放棄一些負面的作為特別是對台灣複合性的施壓"},{"start":11390.18,"end":11407.758,"text":"今天中國大陸他對於我們複合性的施壓不管是軍機建擾台外交打壓經濟脅迫社會滲透一連串的法律戰像跨境鎮壓還有這個鋪天蓋地的這些認知作戰"},{"start":11408.519,"end":11436.138,"text":"還有灰色地帶侵擾可以說是對台步步進逼極限施壓這才是兩岸關係緊張台海風險的根源那我們不斷的呼籲中國大陸他這麼做其實對他的國際形象也不好那現在各國都開始圍堵中國開始對於地緣風險提升很高大家都在安全方面注入了很多資源各種關係"},{"start":11437.619,"end":11457.555,"text":"也提升那雖然如此我們的政策還是跟委員所說的一致沒有改變我們還是要去風險化還是要盡全力維護台海的和平穩定的現狀這是我們的目標謝謝主委主委剛剛提了很多可是沒有聽到我們陸委會的具體作為我們"},{"start":11458.696,"end":11475.812,"text":"還是希望說論委會有具體的作為那剛剛主委特別講到交流那交流有一個非常大的重點就是我們大家現在在兩岸的觀光那我先跟主委報告一個數字在113年的時候台灣附中的人數是277萬人114年的時候成長50萬人到323萬人"},{"start":11481.997,"end":11502.174,"text":"大陸來台人數也有稍微一點點的增加那我們現在都還是知道說現在我們陸委會我們的旅遊警示對大陸的旅遊警示都是橙色燈號那就讓我覺得很奇怪現在是不是民間的我們台灣跟對岸民間的交流很熱烈可是官方的交流"},{"start":11503.195,"end":11526.667,"text":"這個很冷淡那我想要請教之前去年有請教過主委針對我們台灣針對這個橘色的燈號有沒有可能未來去調整燈號那以及有沒有機會之前講的促成兩小會的對話來對我們兩邊對我們台灣的這個禁團令有沒有今年度有沒有可能來做一個調整"},{"start":11528.048,"end":11544.336,"text":"跟委員報告剛剛有很多委員在追尋我們最近的很多國人在中國大陸刑方不明或者是被盤查或者是因為受到法律限制不能有人身"},{"start":11545.316,"end":11573.735,"text":"自由安全方面的限制不能回到台灣來這些都是風險確實有風險那因為風險蠻高的我們還是要持續用燈號來提示來提醒國人負入要有安全方面的考量那另外我們要回答我們張委員剛剛所追尋就兩岸觀光的部分我們到現在還是一樣還是秉持著我們的最大的善意我們希望針對"},{"start":11575.656,"end":11601.508,"text":"剛剛所說的人身安全的這些風險我們針對兩岸的旅遊的這個整個安全還有品質還有穩定性公平性我們不要讓業者活在一個惶惶不安他們說斷就斷我們也不要過去的這個兩岸的那個光光亂降我們一直主張兩岸的觀光小兩會應該做下來溝通談"},{"start":11603.689,"end":11618.789,"text":"好 謝謝主委針對您剛提到有幾個點希望陸委會還是要加油積極針對我們國人赴陸的人身安全我相信每一個國人的人身安全都非常重要可是本席剛剛聽到你跟很多委員的回應我發現這個陸委會還是一樣"},{"start":11621.112,"end":11636.812,"text":"沒有對策那我認為每一個國人只要在大陸遇到人身安全你可以發布新聞啊讓台灣人知道說有這樣的問題可是我平常都沒有看到新聞只有在你們的專案報告裡面才說現在好像非常危險所以這一點我也請主委要來做加強的一個動作"},{"start":11639.437,"end":11655.987,"text":"我還是必須要說陸委會一年的預算大概十億左右當然我知道我們所有官員大家都非常辛苦可是我最近也得知陸委會的機關人力缺額嚴重就我所得到的資料缺額將近達到兩成"},{"start":11658.388,"end":11673.38,"text":"那我想要請問主委兩岸的事務非常的複雜那兩岸難道是因為兩岸交流全面遇到停滯所以業務量大幅減少所以是政府刻意要縮減編制預缺不補嗎還是其他政治性的考量請主委回答"},{"start":11673.82,"end":11688.449,"text":"是跟委員報告我們也了解我們很多部門在補缺額的時候那麼最近缺額是比較多但是我們有其中有一項部分比如說我們港澳"},{"start":11689.92,"end":11717.341,"text":"這些外館中國大陸基於他們的政治立場我們必須要承諾他一中承諾書才讓我們派過去所以我們港澳很多的缺額都沒辦法補這是一個結構性的限制那另外因為我們陸委會的工作真的是比較沉重大家打探了一下我們陸委會的同仁真的是上班的時間長工作壓力也沉重就是要"},{"start":11717.941,"end":11744.508,"text":"要應處來自於中國大陸的鋪天蓋地這些壓力那我們真的是我們感謝我們陸委會同仁還有海基會的同仁還在監守崗位來維護我們兩岸關係正常健康有序的交流還有維持台海和平穩定我們仍然在對台商提供各種的服務仍然在落實當中好謝謝主委那我是不是有機會請我們的蘇董事長"},{"start":11747.509,"end":11748.15,"text":"方便請教一個問題嗎好 麻煩蘇董事長"},{"start":11758.516,"end":11783.889,"text":"好 董事長實際的關係我本席要這邊感謝你願意承擔來擔任我們海基會的董事長未來對兩岸的關係以及我們台灣兩岸的情勢做了努力巨大的奉獻本席在這邊非常感謝你那這邊我請教一個問題看說如果能方便回應的話就請你回應就是說在你接任此職位的時候就是賴總統有沒有交付你什麼樣的任務"},{"start":11785.75,"end":11813.653,"text":"就您擔任這個海基會董事長來講您對未來對於大陸的交流您的計畫是如何請你簡單來分享一下 謝謝好 謝謝我覺得賴總統會請我到海基會他給我的任務就是要服務好兩岸的人民跟台商那基本上如果在雙方沒有預設立場"},{"start":11815.074,"end":11828.961,"text":"我們都樂意進一步跟大陸能夠來做交流但是現在民間的交流還是宗教文化的交流還是蠻密切在進行的"},{"start":11847.895,"end":11862.951,"text":"好 下一位 我們有請廖先祥召委 質詢 謝謝謝謝主席 麻煩邀請我們邱主委請邱所政 邱主委 謝謝"},{"start":11867.358,"end":11884.589,"text":"主委你好上禮拜五我們立法院的院會其實有一個議題我也有上新聞就是有很多的委員在院會喊台灣中國一邊一國我不是問您說您的立場怎麼樣您的立場您的個人主觀意志沒關係我要問的是說因為剛剛有委員問主委說現在兩岸關係是什麼關係您就說兩岸是兩岸關係既然是兩岸關係如果說立法院有委員想要推動台灣中國一邊一國的話"},{"start":11896.457,"end":11914.257,"text":"那我們的憲政的架構或者是我們的中央民國法律要怎麼樣子的去調整我覺得您可以給一些意見給您可以提一些意見給這些倡議台灣中國一邊一國的立委因為他們其實是有權利來做這樣的修法那在這樣子的憲政法律架構下是要怎麼調整這樣子"},{"start":11916.175,"end":11942.237,"text":"我想我們立委要推動各種立法我們從民主政治原則基本上都給予尊重但是因為兩岸的問題複雜敏感微妙而關鍵那我們作為這個在亞太地區一個維持穩定和平繁榮的這個角色我們向來"},{"start":11944.139,"end":11959.254,"text":"推動各種重大的法案除了我們內部要有國人堅定的支持要朝野有共識那也要符合國際社會的期待單純請教在我們的憲政法律的架構下"},{"start":11959.955,"end":11978.377,"text":"要怎麼做要怎麼修法才能夠真的如同他們所倡議的去推動我想說您可以給這些委員一些意見而不是說或許有些人嘴巴講講不知道怎麼去推動那我們可以讓他們支援跟我們的做可以有一致的一個做法這樣子您可以給一些指導不敢"},{"start":11979.057,"end":12001.931,"text":"我覺得我們是一個主權國家,我們都依照法定程序來推動當然我們是一個民主的社會,這個朝野要有共識,這是最重要的我會說如果委員想推的話,假設我現在想推,或某個委員想推那我們大概是在哪一個憲法的條文,或是法律的條文需要去做修正呢?"},{"start":12003.583,"end":12018.837,"text":"我想您剛剛所說的那個當然會噴出到憲法的修正是 包括哪一條什麼樣的文字需要去做修正呢可以給委員一些意見嗎我們以後也可以給他建議啊如果有涉及到兩條列修正"},{"start":12019.477,"end":12037.886,"text":"我們陸委會職責所在一定會提供很多相關的資訊沒有問題所以就是沒關係你可能好像不太方便給立法院一些指導嘛那如果說有委員提的話你們再提一些意見是不是是是好那沒關係沒關係看你好像不太願意回答這個問題好那這個"},{"start":12041.327,"end":12050.599,"text":"回到現在非常熱的話題,當然就是李正秀委員的議題,我不是問您的立場怎麼樣,我正要問說我們陸配在去年的時候普遍因為單一戶籍的問題,去年我們陸委會也非常積極在協助陸配去讓他們補辦"},{"start":12059.17,"end":12085.995,"text":"那我問一下如果這些陸配因為我們要行使中華民國國民的權利的時候要拿到身分證行使享受權利跟義務的時候就必須要放棄戶籍嘛但是很多陸配他是在2025年他才放棄戶籍的對不對在去年我們輔導了非常多那如果這些陸配在2025年之前行使的權利這部分我們陸委會是怎麼做認定的呢是"},{"start":12090.202,"end":12110.048,"text":"基本上我們就尊重已經發生的事實不過我倒是可以跟委員報告我們為什麼會有這個政策因為我們的疫情比較長長達三年我們結婚的陸配我們一年還有五千位那他們呢沒辦法去中國大陸"},{"start":12110.988,"end":12126.12,"text":"放棄他戶籍那麼把住校戶籍證明拿回來因為那時候疫情我們不可能說中國大陸疫情那麼嚴重我們很不能到了說不行你一定要三個月所以主委的意思是已經發生過的事情就發生了我們也不會去"},{"start":12127.421,"end":12151.253,"text":"追究那李貞秀委員的問題他已經就職了我們當初為什麼會有這個專案是從那個要解決我們疫情期間沒辦法去補辦不只疫情期間嘛很多陸配都是十多年二十多年嘛對不對那他們過去所行使的一些權利或者義務都已經可能已經塵埃落定了甚至我舉個例投票好了"},{"start":12152.654,"end":12171.753,"text":"票也投啦那過去那些票你要收回來嗎我想應該也不太可能這樣子去主張嘛那同樣除非法院有做相關的一個判決那才可能去推翻過去的一些行政的程序的一個完備嘛我們可能需要透過法院那一樣的我們李政協委員"},{"start":12172.774,"end":12187.646,"text":"就職了那您說不溯及既往那為什麼就單單就李政秀委員這個案子我們認為說應該要溯及既往我們沒有溯及既往他是因為法律明定在那一邊至於"},{"start":12188.826,"end":12210.897,"text":"委員說這涉及很多人啊他們投票行為怎麼樣啊因為這個都不法分割我們在釋法性當初要發動這個專案讓大家有機會來維持他在法律上的合法地位一方面是我們常常說要給陸配一個安居樂業的我們都要補救嘛我知道你們都要補救嘛"},{"start":12211.657,"end":12230.356,"text":"對 但是我們針對這個法律問題我們也有 而是我們認為這是我們要去面對 要去解決我們做了一個這個補救的一個措施 過去很多行政機關已經做了行政處分 原則上我們就既往不咎嘛 對不對"},{"start":12231.71,"end":12248.88,"text":"是這樣的概念嘛對不對剛剛主委您講的既往不咎那就是行政處分已經生效的話那我們既往不咎那李貞秀委員她也已經完成了就職的行政程序啊那為什麼我們不是因為我們自己對法院那個法定的理解而去"},{"start":12249.54,"end":12274.486,"text":"用自己的意識去推翻這一個行政程序我了解委員的意思但是我們兩岸條例因為非常清楚的規定這個第九條之一你如果擁有中國大陸的戶籍那你就會喪失我們台灣的戶籍還有因為這個戶籍所衍生的權利那李貞秀女士她就是沒有遇到兩岸條例的放棄沒有沒有 那就參選資格或就職的問題我今天舉一個實際的例子好了"},{"start":12278.007,"end":12292.836,"text":"一個里長過去有發生一些新聞里長比較可能發生同票同票的情況最後抽籤嘛可能最後差一兩票也有可能這樣子的情形那最後如果我們發現說有一個陸配他其實當初是沒有這樣子的一個投票資格的時候"},{"start":12294.67,"end":12318.964,"text":"那現在我們要去追究嗎有委員跟您報告如果我們的陸配因為從我們剛剛講的法律如果他的身份沒有放棄中國大陸戶籍有人說他有雙重身份我們移民署就把他台灣人的身份那是一個形身取份啊我的意思說已經發生了他已經去投票了"},{"start":12320.12,"end":12339.081,"text":"或者是說中選會已經發投票通知書給他的突然這個選務人員說我知道你有雙同戶籍你不能投票你不能讓他投嗎這個部分真的沒辦法切割你也不知道要投給誰你無法去追溯所以這個在過去的法律上法律的判決上都有這個所以追溯就會有這個問題"},{"start":12340.763,"end":12359.769,"text":"追溯會有過去你剛剛講無法切割的問題那有去推翻過去行政處分的一個問題那一樣的李政協委員他也有一個推翻行政處分的一個問題在我們可不可以憑自己的對法令的理解去推翻行政處分好不好我知道這邊沒有辦法達成共識但是我覺得中華民國"},{"start":12360.549,"end":12387.435,"text":"立法行政就職的程序已經完備了那如果他不是立法委員的話就必須要有一個解職的程序來完成他才是立法委員我覺得委員說他有沒有信賴保護啊就我們這個例子李森修的例子沒有信賴保護的問題我們有做了很多法律的研究沒關係就千千種的計謀不就就這一個會救沒有因為只有他參選立委而已謝謝主任謝謝"},{"start":12390.704,"end":12409.564,"text":"好 謝謝 下一位我們邀請洪孟愷委員好 主席謝謝 麻煩請邱主委麻煩邱主委"},{"start":12416.11,"end":12439.858,"text":"國務委員好 各位 開宗明義我想過去這段時間看到不管是行政部門看到民進黨的委員真的對於我們一位陸配級的委員持續這樣子用不管是言語或是消極不配合的一個霸凌的一個手段其實全台灣的陸配大家也都看在眼裡我今天就事論事就法論法"},{"start":12441.098,"end":12464.516,"text":"能夠讓我們中華民國法令持續的往前走這才是應該要做的事情但如果說民進黨政府一味的用政治意識形態來操作像今天內政委員會我們上台我們開會到現在也有一些紛擾但還是一樣 主委你站上備詢台就應該要尊重立法委員的質詢的權益"},{"start":12466.357,"end":12489.558,"text":"所以我先開宗明義想請教我們到底現在台灣我們現在有多少陸配取得中華民國身份證取得我們定居的身份有14萬5千多人14萬5千多位陸配是有中華民國身份證是不是那其中有14萬多人那有哪一位可以放棄中國國籍的陸配"},{"start":12492.594,"end":12510.946,"text":"我們這些取得我們定居跟身份證的都是放棄中國大陸戶籍這個國籍的部分我們還是在了解你之前就已經受訪過了你坦承無人能夠完成放棄中國籍不是嗎所以現在我只想要確認一下這個標題是不是正確"},{"start":12514.908,"end":12533.009,"text":"就我們陸委會或是海基會的工作啊我們兩岸條例就只有處理戶籍的問題沒有處理國籍的問題對於陸配最了解的就是陸委會嘛是嘛那我只是想問是說你以前就已經受訪過就是說無人能夠完成放棄中國籍"},{"start":12534.551,"end":12551.327,"text":"那現在這個數字有沒有變化有沒有人因為說我們陸委會或說最近在紛紛擾擾然後讓陸配能夠去放棄中國籍有沒有跟委員報告放棄中國籍我覺得依照中國大陸國籍法的程序一句話"},{"start":12552.509,"end":12572.161,"text":"我們手上是沒有放棄成功的例子但是我們覺得陸培應該要努力去放棄如果他要參選公職再來沒關係你已經回答了再來陸委會有講說世界各國有一些國家憲法是不准國民放棄國際譬如說墨西哥阿根廷等等但是我們"},{"start":12574.577,"end":12600.927,"text":"在相關中華民國法令裡面我們有兩岸人民關係條例陸配可以參政最主要是為什麼是因為兩岸人民關係條例是我們規範在阿根廷墨西哥等這些國家他們有特殊的條例嗎在我們國家我們有沒有說在阿根廷啦墨西哥啦你們舉的例子有沒有什麼條例是可以讓他們說沒有辦法放棄國籍但他們可以有參政權"},{"start":12602.425,"end":12612.894,"text":"跟委員報告你指的這些不能放棄國家的這個國民如果規劃成為中華民國的國民的話他們就不能參政他們也不能參政嘛他們不能參政那為什麼陸配可以參政"},{"start":12617.838,"end":12644.256,"text":"陸配有兩岸人民關係條例來給予也是立法院三讀通過的法例我們陸配參政的這個條文在兩岸關係條例是第21條簡單講他要住滿10年他要住滿10年完整的身份轉換住滿10年剛剛我們的召委已經有質詢你你也沒有辦法有一些溯及既往部分你也沒有辦法回答"},{"start":12644.696,"end":12671.636,"text":"好那我再請教所以現在陸委會今天李貞秀委員她站上這個諮詢台她有中選會頒發的當選證書她在我們我國的大法官見證下宣誓就職那現在到底你們陸委會的認定李貞秀委員有沒有符合有沒有擁有我們中華民國的立法委員的資格跟委員報告"},{"start":12673.735,"end":12696.634,"text":"我們立委會當然我們尊重不是尊重啊我現在是要問你說你能認定我知道李征秀委員有沒有中華民國委員的資格沒有至少我認為我現在就是依照兩岸條例他沒有參選的資格他有參選資格你認為是說他沒有中華民國立法委員的資格來他沒有參選資格這一間辦公室這一間委員會叫內政委員會"},{"start":12701.658,"end":12724.234,"text":"我覺得如果說這樣的話 民進黨政府要不要先打一架內部先溝通一下陸委會 我剛剛已經問了 主委講是說李貞秀委員他目前陸委會認定 我們主委認定他沒有中華民國立法委員的資格可是中選會已經給他當選證書中選會也讓大法官來宣誓就職所以陸委會要不要出句公文給中選會要中選會取消他的資格"},{"start":12724.754,"end":12751.325,"text":"黃委員我們是就法論法就是就法論法啊所以我才想要問你們我們就是說它不符合兩岸條例的參選資格主委心平氣和我現在只想講是說那這樣子陸委會既然陸委會已經認定是說他沒有這個資格中選會把他認定那這樣就是陸委會跟中選會兩個互相在打架囉跟委員報告齁就在李貞秀女士啊她"},{"start":12753.506,"end":12760.569,"text":"所以什麼時候我們中選會我們陸委會要發出相關的公文陸委會什麼時候會發出相關的公文給中選會跟中選會講是說我們李貞秀委員她沒有中華民國立法委員的資格"},{"start":12774.575,"end":12794.816,"text":"他違反兩岸條例21條我們有去跟中選會我親自也去拜訪中選會當然我們也有給他們公文那新任的主委上任後我想我們也需要具備相關的這些事實證據提供給中選會對 很實在話講啦大家真的都在看"},{"start":12796.394,"end":12815.394,"text":"本席身為中華民國立法委員之一113席每一位都是民意代表我們面對的行政部門我們希望的是行政部門開大門走大路我們希望是行政部門依法行政我們希望是行政部門可以真真正正的了解主流民意"},{"start":12816.255,"end":12839.866,"text":"但是過去到現在我們看到民進黨政府依法三讀通過的法令不執行恣意的解釋法令還有到現在陸委會應該是站在兩岸人民關係條例因為陸委會存在一個很重要的位階就是因為兩岸人民關係條例才有陸委會的存在如果說都沒有辦法捍衛台灣跟中國大陸兩邊的關係"},{"start":12842.386,"end":12870.213,"text":"我覺得中華民國我們相對來講未來的憲政體制會越走越窄這一點是我給主委的一個忠告我們私下有很多場合有些時候都會碰到面但我必須要講的是站在這個主委的位置上面就應該要從一而終這才是真真正正為中華民國全體國人服務謝謝洪委員我們就是依法行政我們就匡正違法謝謝"},{"start":12878.51,"end":12900.943,"text":"好 謝謝 我們接下來請蔡春籌委員發言蔡春籌蔡春籌蔡春籌委員不在我們請劉淑冰委員發言劉淑冰 劉淑冰 劉淑冰不在我們請邱惠如委員發言邱惠如 邱惠如 邱惠如不在我們接下來請羅明才委員發言羅明才 羅明才 羅明才不在接下來請顏寬恒委員發言顏寬恒 顏寬恒 顏寬恒委員不在"},{"start":12905.385,"end":12933.793,"text":"我們接下來請王安祥委員發言 王安祥 王安祥 王安祥不在接下來請鄭振前委員發言 鄭振前 鄭振前 鄭振前不在我們接下來請吳啟明委員發言 吳啟明 吳啟明 吳啟明不在我們接下來請高津素梅委員發言 高津素梅 高津素梅 高津素梅不在接下來請丁學忠委員發言 丁學忠 丁學忠 丁學忠不在後面沒了嗎"},{"start":12936.853,"end":12940.859,"text":"登記發言委員除不在場外 其餘均已發言完畢 詢問結束"},{"start":12942.694,"end":12971.343,"text":"委員吳祁銘、高進、宿美所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報書面質詢和未及答覆部分請相關單位於一週內書面回覆並複製本會討論事項審查台北市政府提出請願文書等9案均不成為一案並依立法院職權行事法第67條第二項之規定由程序委員會報請院會存查並通知請願人請問各位委員有意見"},{"start":12972.674,"end":12974.857,"text":"沒有,好本日會議到此結束,現在上會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}