{"error":false,"id":["17298"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":17298,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17298","日期":"2026-03-25","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-22-3","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":3,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[22],"委員會代碼:str":["教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Full","開始時間":"2026-03-25T08:37:44+08:00","結束時間":"2026-03-25T12:36:00+08:00","影片長度":"03:58:16","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373d4ee4a7eab0b67bbe97b6ff85f8b601e044e0a145e6cc6f0f29919eca323179e05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-03-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n（一）\t委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「學校衛生法第二十二條及第二十三條之三條文修正草案」案。\n（二）\t委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「學校衛生法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）\t委員蘇清泉等23人擬具「學校衛生法第二十三條及第二十三條之三條文修正草案」案。\n（四）\t委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「學校衛生法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）\t委員徐富癸等18人擬具「學校衛生法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）\t委員萬美玲等28人擬具「學校衛生法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）\t委員洪孟楷等27人擬具「學校衛生法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）\t委員黃捷等17人擬具「學校衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）\t委員莊瑞雄等21人擬具「學校衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）\t委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「學校衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）\t委員郭昱晴等28人擬具「學校衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）\t委員鄭正鈐等16人擬具「學校衛生法第二十三條及第二十三條之三條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）\t委員張宏陸等23人擬具「學校衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案。\n（十四）\t委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「學校衛生法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十五）\t委員葉元之等20人擬具「學校衛生法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（十六）\t委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「學校衛生法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（十七）\t委員徐富癸等17人擬具「學校衛生法第二十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（十八）\t委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「學校衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案。\n（十九）\t委員林俊憲等18人擬具「學校衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案。\n（二十）\t委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「學校衛生法第二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（二十一）\t委員萬美玲等16人擬具「學校衛生法第五條條文修正草案」案。\n（二十二）\t委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「學校衛生法第十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（二十三）\t委員徐富癸等16人擬具「學校衛生法第十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（二十四）\t委員林淑芬等22人擬具「學校衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案。\n（二十五）\t委員羅智強等17人擬具「學校衛生法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（二十六）\t委員魯明哲等18人擬具「學校衛生法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（二十七）\t委員魯明哲等18人擬具「學校衛生法第十七條條文修正草案」案。\n....................(因系統字數上限，詳見議事日程)\n【僅進行詢答】）","委員名稱":"完整會議","委員發言時間":"08:37:44 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像我本身是青藏外科醫師乙型瘦體素萊克多巴胺對下一代的神經系統發育具備毒性風險"},{"start":1659.993,"end":1687.611,"text":"在學界尚未百分百證明其對人體無副作用前我們絕對不能讓學童暴露在食安風險中低劑量長期接觸比大劑量一次更具危險性可能影響生殖力提高癌症轉移風險並加重失解失調等精神疾病因此我們提案"},{"start":1689.042,"end":1709.745,"text":"第二三條及第二三條之三條文修正就是應在企業生命中為提供以行授體術基因改造生鮮食品及其初期加工品來保障學童的身心健康以上"},{"start":1718.834,"end":1746.301,"text":"好 謝謝接下來有請我們第二位洪孟凱委員提案說明好 感謝長期關心我們學童安全的昭偉羅廷偉委員今天特別排我們學校衛生法的相關修法本席看到總共多達37個委員共同的一個版本但最重要的是其實我們站在這邊都希望能夠更進一步的"},{"start":1746.761,"end":1761.63,"text":"保障學童在校園裡面的食品安全衛生其實不只是校園我想全體國人大家都希望能夠使安但我們一步一步逐步落實並且在法院上面能夠增加更明確的規範讓"},{"start":1763.411,"end":1790.533,"text":"學校是一個可以家長送孩童上學的時候的一個安心的地方所以過去學校衛生法其實已經明定本席在這次修的23條裡面就有講到中央主管機關應該針對午餐內容以及營養準則提供衛生安全營養的餐食並且嚴禁使用含基因改造的生鮮食品及初級加工品既然過去我們就已經有認為"},{"start":1792.563,"end":1821.983,"text":"新鮮改造基因改造的相關食品不應該給孩童使用那麼進一步的我們也看到在最近不管是過去到現在我們認為說瘦肉精的一個肉品其實我們一定要防止進入校園或是像之前也有發生國內有梅花豬肉片檢驗含有瘦肉精西布特羅等食安事件所以層出不窮的狀況我們更應該認為就要有法源依據來給予保障"},{"start":1822.623,"end":1839.192,"text":"再者過去從2020年開始民進黨政府開放含萊克多巴胺的豬肉進口之後社會各界當然持續關注相關的肉品流通對於校園食品安全的衝擊所以今天本席以及包括我的提案就有高達"},{"start":1840.052,"end":1868.292,"text":"羅廷威委員 馬文君委員 牛雪婷委員 廖偉祥委員楊泉委員 黃建豪委員等共同提案並且多人連署我們認為在23條裡面就應該要加入如使用校園食品如使用豬肉牛肉等相關產製品應採用國內的在地食材並且禁止使用含乙型瘦體素成分或基因改造生鮮食材及其初級加工品我想"},{"start":1868.932,"end":1897.333,"text":"站在捍衛把關校園食安的立場我們絕對不容妥協我們也希望在經過今天我們條文的一個充分討論並且未來逐條審查之後行政部門能夠以開放而且接受態度來共同捍衛我們校園食品安全先從校園食品安全開始進一步我們推廣到我們全國境內我們更希望大家共同來維護我們所有下一代的食安問題"},{"start":1898.334,"end":1907.267,"text":"以上 感謝好 謝謝下一位有請王洪威委員提案說明"},{"start":1912.947,"end":1931.167,"text":"好 感謝主席以及與會委員還有今天到場的各位相關部會的官員那我想這次學校衛生法的條文的修正大家可以看到非常多位委員關心而且修正的條文也非常多從有關於食安問題"},{"start":1932.068,"end":1956.841,"text":"或者心理辅导问题或者学校电子烟的管制等等问题那显示大家非常关心我们校园里面学生的相关的卫生安全那本席在这边要特别说明的提案说明的是就是针对学校卫生法第23条的条文修正"},{"start":1957.461,"end":1978.533,"text":"大家也都知道在这一阵子事实上都还没有结束的就是有关于台美关税谈判在这个谈判过程里面其实非常多位学者专家以及我们民意代表很关心的就是绝对食安的问题不能够失守"},{"start":1980.194,"end":2005.033,"text":"还好我们以在校园的基改食品我们守住了但是在瘦肉精莱克多巴胺的部分因为我们在谈判的过程里面我们让步让整个莱克多巴胺的安全标准提高所以我们在这一次学校卫生法的修正里面就显得更为的重要"},{"start":2005.734,"end":2032.361,"text":"所以在23條條文修正裡面最主要的就是針對以行獸體數獸肉精的肉皮另外呢也是大家非常關心的就是受輻射影響地區的食品風險也應該予以禁止那大家都知道因為事實上我們在之前我們政府也公告開放了"},{"start":2033.661,"end":2058.562,"text":"全面解禁包含这个相关的就是我们认为受辐射影响地区的食品能够进口那么当然我们在学校里面我们的食品的安全标准应该更为提高刚才我们也有委员特别提到像我们输去前委员他自己本身也是医师那很多人说哎呀这些标准啊"},{"start":2059.182,"end":2087.663,"text":"都是可以承受的但是我们知道学童处于生长发展的期间我们认为在我们政府也许基于一些关税的考量也许基于一些外交的考量而我们放宽了相关的不管是隐形受体术受肉精或者辐射这个影响但是呢我们还是要力保在校园里面所以一定"},{"start":2088.143,"end":2110.765,"text":"能夠讓我們的孩子盡量不要接觸到這樣的食品所以在這邊跟大家報告我個人本席也有我們很多位委員一起共同提案連署的是學校衛生法第23條的條文修正草案那是否有當請敬請公決也希望大家能夠予以支持謝謝"},{"start":2115.851,"end":2133.764,"text":"我們宣告一下有請我們陳佩玉委員當代理主席 謝謝我要念他的名字嗎好 接下來請羅廷偉委員提案說明"},{"start":2139.212,"end":2155.092,"text":"好 謝謝主席今天我有兩案學校衛生法的修法版本分別是第2條 第23條我就一起來講很多的學生因為家裡的經濟狀況不好連最基本的生理用品都成為負擔造成所謂的月經貧窮的一個問題"},{"start":2156.954,"end":2174.005,"text":"以及影響整個健康還有受教權為了照顧這些不利處境的學生也落實聯合國消除對婦女一切形式的歧視公約的精神我們在這一次讓確保享有實質平等因此提出了"},{"start":2174.505,"end":2193.426,"text":"学校卫生法第六条的条文修正草案把学校要备置多元生理用品提供学生免费使用并且规划女性生理期相关健康教育的宣导写进法条例保障我们现在学生的基本权利"},{"start":2194.227,"end":2210.753,"text":"其次含乙型受體素的一個肉品長期以來都被視為具有潛在健康風險即便在部分國際標準下被認定為容許範圍內也無法保證對所有的族群尤其"},{"start":2211.773,"end":2235.148,"text":"是我們在成長階段的孩子都能夠安全無虞成長中的孩子長期在校用餐的學生甚至教職員每天在校園反覆攝取相同來源的肉品一旦暴露在乙型受體數的食物相關的風險將會被放大"},{"start":2236.365,"end":2260.498,"text":"基于预防的原则校园餐饮本来就应该采取比一般市场的更严格标准把可能的风险永远挡在校门外因此我提出学校卫生法第23条修正草案明确禁止含乙型受体素落品"},{"start":2261.598,"end":2282.592,"text":"進入校園的餐飲體系希望大家能夠一同來支持昨天的總質詢我也聽到有官員直接就承認我們現在就在做那很好既然已經在做就應該要入法"},{"start":2283.567,"end":2300.197,"text":"更能夠及時的保障我們不希望只是寫在所謂的跟契約裡面跟廠商的規範裡面而是直接入法既然就在做那就更應該直接入法以上"},{"start":2316.681,"end":2320.672,"text":"接下來進行請教育部張亮萬堅次長報告報告時間8分鐘"},{"start":2330.305,"end":2349.818,"text":"主席各位委員各位女士先生大家好感謝貴委員會安排今日會議就學校衛生法部分條文修正草案進行詢答那本次會議審查立法委員提案修正學校衛生法部分條文計37案共計15條本人應邀列席得以聆聽各位委員寶貴意見自感榮幸以下請就教育部"},{"start":2350.778,"end":2378.87,"text":"對委員所提修正草案之整體回應提出口頭說明敬請各位委員指教那麼學校衛生法是在九十一年公布實施協助學校強化學生之健康促進及自主管理各類疾病及傳染病之防治以及校園餐飲衛生安全提供學校衛生且健康之學習環境感謝各位委員對於教育事務的關心本部依各條條文修正草案議題重點說明如下第五條部分有關建議學校"},{"start":2379.89,"end":2400.166,"text":"衛生委員會納入具醫藥公衛營養及心理健康專業領域有兩點說明第一本部歷年臨聘委員時經與納入醫藥公衛營養專長者尤其提供專業之諮詢指導意見令心理健康領域專長者與學生輔導法第五條所定學生輔導諮詢委員會成員中明定"},{"start":2402.881,"end":2423.565,"text":"第二現行條文為限制特定領域專長者可保有依當前學生身心健康攸關議題選擇領域之彈性委員之提案本不予尊重第六條部分有關建議提供多元生理用品推動月均教育即將健康中心作為心理諮商場所那麼有四點說明第一點"},{"start":2424.185,"end":2450.964,"text":"本条现行条文系规范学校因社专责单位以及健康中心之设施与功能那么第二点说明是本部已经定有提供多元生理用品指引各校多以结合性平教育共同推动那么针对不利处境学生亦纳入硕士助学金补助且鼓励学校运用高教生跟私立学校奖励等经费致应急需学生生理用品"},{"start":2451.624,"end":2480.531,"text":"並請學校與網站公告取用地圖以利學生就近取用第三點說明為了促進月經平權本部現行將月經教育納入性平與情感教育以及健康與體育領域之學習內容並研製各式教材提供各校進行宣導委員之提案本部將著以參採為考量本條文之體力建議增訂於本法施行細則第十四條第一項第一款以學生"},{"start":2481.391,"end":2501.661,"text":"於學校辦理健康促進活動中來推動第四點說明學校心理諮詢場所及其設置標準依學生輔導法第十六條已有明文規定委員之提案本部予以尊重那麼第七條的部分有關建議高中以下學校應並計附設幼兒園班級數增聘護理人員"},{"start":2506.311,"end":2522.151,"text":"那麼根據幼兒教育及照顧法第17條以明文規定學校可將附設幼兒園班級數與學校班級數合併計算學校以可依該法作為徵聘護理人員之原額依據委員之提案本部予以尊重"},{"start":2522.992,"end":2548.493,"text":"那麼有關第八條第十條的部分建議學校辦理心理健康評估那麼由中央訂定心理健康實施辦法心理指導及矯正的部分心理健康評估已於學生輔導法第六條之三級輔導機制中實施學校亦可依第九條設理設心理諮詢場所各級學校皆可具以執行委員之提案本部予以尊重"},{"start":2550.336,"end":2579.419,"text":"第11條部分有關建議學校加強學生聽力不良之預防及矯正工作那麼根據現行各級學校都是依學生健康檢查實施辦法所定健康檢查基準表進行聽力檢查及後續處理措施以避免影響學生之學習與委員所提建議方向一致第16條第17條有關建議增列心理健康教育課程及教師增能"},{"start":2580.16,"end":2604.106,"text":"那麼說明有兩點說明第一點健康與體育領域學習內容之主題以涵蓋心理健康教育學校依依循學生輔導法具以推動心理健康教育與三級輔導第二點說明有關目前教師進修課程已經依專業需求彈性納入心理衛生與健康主題以兼顧專業精進與課程規劃彈性委員之提案本部予以尊重"},{"start":2605.046,"end":2629.925,"text":"第十九條有關建議學校得適時管理影響學生健康之物品或行為那麼說明如下本部已訂定高級中等以下學校校園行動載具使用原則以引導學校訂定校內規範令教師發現學生攜帶或使用違禁物品時亦可依教師輔導與管教學生辦法注意事項來處置委員提案本部予以尊重"},{"start":2630.726,"end":2656.281,"text":"第二十一條的部分有關建議增列廚房及室內空氣品質應符合相關法令標準有兩點說明第一點本法二十二條第三項已明定學校參與場所應符合食品良好衛生規範準則等法令標準另一國民小學及國民中學設施設備基準第七條已明定有廚房設置之原則"},{"start":2657.262,"end":2674.236,"text":"那麼第二點說明校園之空氣品質管理本部業定有高級中等以下學校及幼兒園因應空氣品質惡化處理措施緊急應變作業流程等規範那麼且環境部主管之室內空氣品質管理辦法"},{"start":2675.057,"end":2702.467,"text":"也將學校列入自主管理場所原已有法源可管理那麼委員之提案本部予以尊重第22條有關建議餐飲衛生查核頻率改為每學期那麼說明如下本部已建立中央地方學校三級抽查機制各級主管機關每學年至少抽查學校一次學校亦需落實至少每週一次自主檢查農業及衛生機關亦不定期抽查現行"},{"start":2703.527,"end":2714.76,"text":"至於積極為學校提供以為學校公餐環境把關為了行政減量以維持現行美學年至少一次之查核機制"},{"start":2716.96,"end":2734.076,"text":"那麼有關第23條第23條之3採用在地食材及禁止食用含乙型受體素那麼本部呢已透過午餐契約範本要求學校優先採用國產食材且各地方政府之國中小學午餐採購契約已於109年底"},{"start":2737.219,"end":2750.978,"text":"以前全數完成換約全面採用在地優良食品另外有關食品添加物資容許量標準多元難以羅列已由衛生機關統一規範本部以契約範本加以規範"},{"start":2752.784,"end":2779.769,"text":"那麼第24條有關建議增列禁止電子煙核心型態煙品那麼依煙害防治法校園已全面禁止任何形式煙品本部將持續強化教育宣導督導學校主動巡查吸煙熱點以及跨部會合作杜絕各式煙品危害施政健康委員之提案本部予以尊重第25條有關建議教學運動遊戲器材設備應符合不同族群之安全健康及使用便利"},{"start":2780.689,"end":2796.824,"text":"那麼說明如下學校業以依衛福部之兒童遊戲場所安全管理規範以及115年修正之兒童共榮遊戲設計參考手冊進行管理本部議將持續督導委員之提案本部議尊重最後"},{"start":2797.725,"end":2823.942,"text":"本法自91年公告實施之後已經歷經三次部分條文之修正本部將持續廣泛收集各界意見配合調整相關行政配套措施提供彈性運作機制持續精進並收集各地方政府及各界意見並使本法之推動與實施更真完備以上報告請各位委員指教 謝謝好 謝謝"},{"start":2825.455,"end":2847.113,"text":"由於議事錄之前已經宣讀完畢尚未確定現在先確定議事錄請問各位上次會議議事錄有無錯誤跟遺漏好議事錄確定其餘提出的書面報告機關代表除書面外有無口頭補充"},{"start":2850.455,"end":2863.415,"text":"好 機關代表報告完畢相關書面內容請各位參閱並列入公報記錄機關代表我們現在進行巡打"},{"start":2864.67,"end":2893.186,"text":"每位出席委員諮詢六分鐘必要時延長兩分鐘列席委員諮詢時間四分鐘發言登記截止時間為上午的十點委員若臨時提案請於十點半提出並與本會委員羅廷偉諮詢結束即進行處理處理提案時若提案的委員及連署委員均不在場"},{"start":2894.755,"end":2912.088,"text":"我們就不予處理首先請第一位陳培宇委員帶資訊好謝謝主席那先有請張耀萬監次長謝謝我們有請次長謝謝"},{"start":2917.802,"end":2931.833,"text":"委員好市長早安以上我問的第一題其實我覺得你不大需要回答我只是要對今天所有有提案要修學校衛生法尤其是在第23條的部分的這些委員提出一個質疑因為事實上我們在上一個會期已經針對營養午餐專法已經進行開始討論"},{"start":2935.956,"end":2957.159,"text":"那在教育部的版本裡面我們看到教育部的建議條文第22條一旦營養午餐專法也好或是現在教育部的版本叫做高級中等以下學校午餐及飲食教育條例如果到時候修完之後其實學校衛生法的23條會均不再適用所以我不確定今天所有這些委員的提案關於23條有沒有發現到自己有這個法規的問題"},{"start":2958.48,"end":2981.531,"text":"而且我要說現在我也不確定這些提案的委員到底對於學校的定義在兩個法規中其實是大不相同這件事情他們自己到底知不知道所以我會說不是次長要回答我的是這些提案的委員自己要搞清楚狀況第一個關於學校的部分學校衛生法裡面是含有大專院校但是在營養午餐專法裡面我們看到是含高中以下"},{"start":2982.071,"end":2995.54,"text":"所以我不確定這些委員自己有沒有搞清楚狀況所以我要提醒教育部當然也要注意這些委員的提案除了我剛說這個結構上狀況搞不清楚之外當然後續他們所在意的部分在現行的做法裡面那之前次長在總諮詢的時候"},{"start":2997.561,"end":3015.379,"text":"教育部已经也说得很清楚了我们当然就希望朝这个方向来修法可是我也真的要好心提醒一下我的这些委员同事们在提案的时候请搞清楚你们所在意的事情现在教育部已经在做内容方向是什么还有在法规修法的时候也请注意法规进合的问题好 第二个来直接问次长"},{"start":3016.239,"end":3043.861,"text":"現在我們看到一個相關的新聞我有點擔心有兩個問題第一個是營養午餐的張Q核銷農業部說沒有裁員續辦所以我現在不確定因為裁劃法的修法目前我們有非常多大量的預算都到各個縣市去了連同三張一Q的補助費用要有改由地方來出結果我們看到新聞說連這個營養午餐張Q的核銷平台可能都沒有裁員"},{"start":3044.642,"end":3061.403,"text":"那我們分兩個部分來次長第一個是38億的國產食材的補助在未來教育部跟地方政府這邊會有什麼規劃跟打算來請次長謝謝委員其實在財化法之後中央跟地方的分工裡面其實已經把"},{"start":3062.123,"end":3088.07,"text":"營養午餐的部分呢移歸給地方政府連同這個財化法的那個那個款項的移撥那其中有關38億的這個國產食材的一個補助確實也跟地方講好就是由地方來提列那麼委員所關心的部分是那過去呢在核銷這些所謂的三藏EQ國產食材的這個登錄平台那可能地方並沒有當年是目前是由農業部來對這個登錄"},{"start":3091.411,"end":3115.72,"text":"平台來做一個維運那其實經過這個行政院職安辦的協調我們目前是延到這個年底那未來呢農業部也會持續說明就是說會因為現在變成由各地地方政府來負責所以他們也會延你一套這個登錄平台由地方縣市政府各自來使用來核銷好我總結一下次長你確定一下我講的對不對一"},{"start":3118.294,"end":3144.124,"text":"我希望你剛說的在地方政府必須要說到做到就是因為營養午餐的業務已經移歸給地方政府要由地方政府來提列相關預算尤其在財化法修法之後所以呢這38億的國產食材補助尤其是現場這麼多在野黨委員都說很關心孩童的食安所以如果未來地方政府在自己的預算裡面沒有剝裂"},{"start":3145.164,"end":3171.061,"text":"補助國產食材教育部這邊有沒有任何的方法跟手段可以協助地方政府不要到時候因為沒有吃到國產食材出了問題然後地方又甩鍋丟包到教育部來採訪完後中央跟地方政府是有做協調那協調的部分我們再初步看了地方的預算裡面確實地方政府是有這個辯列的至於足跟不足的部分我們將來會透過中央的統一考核來針對各縣市政府"},{"start":3174.464,"end":3198.784,"text":"移播之後是否有如實編列的部分來做統計跟考核所以中央會有考核確保地方然後不要甩鍋到中央第二個登錄平台的部分不會有問題會持續對嗎登錄平台目前運作會持續到年底到年底以後呢年底以後會爆然就停止一定會再做一個平台讓各縣市政府可以來使用"},{"start":3199.184,"end":3213.93,"text":"好那可是我們希望到明年可以解決這個問題不要中間出現空窗如果是我們希望地方政府編列預算持續使用國產食材那家長當然也會希望知道孩子們今天國產食材到底吃了哪些東西好謝謝次長我們跟農業部繼續來"},{"start":3215.331,"end":3234.174,"text":"我们持续监督接下来我们来看一下关于我们昨天参加了一个记者会关于教师幸福感的调查那我只讲一句话其实很多老师在调查当中告诉我们很多时候主要的压力来源不是来自于教学本身而是来自亲师生三方面的互动"},{"start":3234.634,"end":3261.296,"text":"那我之前在過去一直告訴教育部家庭教育非常重要我不確定我們現在家庭教育有沒有更多的預算更多的政策方向跟更多的跟地方政府合作但因為我今天時間有限我只是想要藉由今天這個調查拜託再次拜託教育部不管是今年還沒有審的總預算或者是明年即將送進來的總預算我都希望在協助老師的部分我們要更多多加強家庭教育"},{"start":3262.017,"end":3286.438,"text":"很多压力其实是在家庭里面就要先化解开来而不是家长无限制的丢包到学校老师身上这个部分我们一起努力好吗市长好谢谢委员的下一个是一个比较麻烦的事情我们收到很多澄清是这样的就是偏远地区学校教育发展条例的澄清案就是当老师们去考这些偏乡学校的时候在他们的甄选的简章上"},{"start":3287.259,"end":3312.355,"text":"沒有說明他適用偏鄉條例第二個也沒有註明是偏鄉學校更沒有說是偏鄉條例第五條專為偏遠地區學校辦理的甄選也沒有告知六年不得借聘結果有很多老師他自己搞不清的狀況他就考記了那樣的學校簡章上也沒有說結果等到他借聘的時候他才發現他不得借聘我們辦公室已經先行所思跟國教署討論了我知道"},{"start":3312.975,"end":3333.362,"text":"就国家署的角度你们会认为怎么会不知道呢怎么会不知道但事实上我要说在法理上因为在甄选的简章上没有充分告知在医疗的时候我们会说知情同意那如果这些老师他在考试的时候他根本就不知道他考的是偏乡学校不得六年内不得接聘那就会出现后续接聘的问题"},{"start":3334.122,"end":3359.267,"text":"當然我知道國教署你們每一年都會辦借聘說明會借聘教師問答集可是這些借聘問答集跟借聘說明會是給已經到學校教書的人他要參加借聘他才會參加所以我要說在來來回回的公文所思當中我們意識到這個問題我可不可以快速建議教育部這樣說第一個相關的甄選簡章務必要放入讓老師們知道一我要考的是偏鄉學校二"},{"start":3359.747,"end":3379.514,"text":"我以后的借聘要适用于偏乡教育条例相关的规定必须要早早让他们知道所以我也很好奇国教署现在有没有去盘点所有的偏乡自办的甄选简章里面有没有写这些东西我认为是没有的那后续我们可以在明年的甄选之前我们可以赶快怎么改正我想要请国教署直接回答谢谢"},{"start":3381.121,"end":3407.712,"text":"委員提的這個問題一般在學校自辦的時候我們發現有些個案是遺漏的雖然在法條在最高的法律上面是有寫但是現在怕那個所以我們會來協助學校那拜託務必要在明年就是今年啦今年考試之前請國教署一定要去確定所有偏鄉自辦的甄選一定要放入這些條文那我們辦公室會再持續追蹤好嗎是的謝謝委員好來下一個比較麻煩的事情是這樣"},{"start":3409.152,"end":3436.002,"text":"次長您在擔任立委的時候也非常關心孩子們的運動問題我非常感謝去年我來問了部長關於適應運動的問題然後我們就發現矯正學校沒有被照顧到很感謝當時的體育署當時的體育署跟矯正署這邊大力的協助讓矯正學校可以納入適應體育確實我們的很多孩子受到照顧可是現在運動部切出去之後我們發現矯正學校的適應體育出了問題下一張我們在進一步所知發現"},{"start":3437.062,"end":3464.172,"text":"班的学校适应体育可能都出了问题这边有两张公文一个是国教署的回应一个是运动部的回应运动部的回应说本部办理学校适应运动推展事宜要由适应运动师来统筹而教育部则主责课程内的适应课程外的适应则由运动部结果教育部给我们答案说适应体育的业务分工没有分校园内校文外作为全责划分现在状况是这样次长因为我时间有限我不要耽误太多时间"},{"start":3464.692,"end":3482.944,"text":"因為運動部跟教育部在分家前是我來協調有一些事情的一些分工那其實在運動部成立前那麼當時的體育署就已經委託國立台灣師範大學成立適應體育發展中心來辦理推展學校適應體育深耕的總計畫"},{"start":3483.945,"end":3503.626,"text":"那麼在分工的協調記錄上面在我主持的第八次協調會議裡面也決議說體育署辦理之適應體育教師增能及補助校園適應運動普及業務是由運動部持續辦理至117年的7月31號那麼三年後才進行檢討在於討論是否依由教育主管機關辦理"},{"start":3504.787,"end":3517.796,"text":"那目前這樣子的一個協調結論並沒有被推翻所以呢我們依據114年8月核定之學校體育業務分工一覽表裡面第11項適應體育所列11之四推動校園內外適應運動含運動輔具及共融運動教育四項是由運動部負責那麼學校"},{"start":3525.982,"end":3526.263,"text":"目前是這樣子"},{"start":3543.459,"end":3568.148,"text":"市長說得很清楚但是看起來兩個部會的分工還是有困境我只講30秒一般的學校特教學校矯正學校看起來運動部的認知它是歸你們的事情可是如果按照市長剛念的會議記錄的結論其實是歸運動部的事情這樣好不好我們今天沒有辦法討論完我們辦公室來召開個協調會我們會邀請教育部跟運動部共同來討論協助這三種學校一般學校特教學校矯正學校孩子們的適應運動好我們部會派員協調好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝"},{"start":3571.749,"end":3584.647,"text":"好 謝謝陳梅玉委員我們下一位發言的委員是柯志文委員好 我們謝謝莊委我們是不是請莊廖次長"},{"start":3590.976,"end":3611.289,"text":"市长好,我想今天排这个学校卫生法,不仅仅是有食材的健康,最重要是心理的健康也是非常的重要的。那么目前130所大学实施的身心架,我想有一些的教授他当然就会抱怨嘛,身心架本身应该是学生情绪的浮沫,而不是逃课的后门,这点你支持吧?"},{"start":3615.691,"end":3638.959,"text":"我个人来说身为大学老师我也支持有身心架但是我个人认为说当学生请到二到三次以上的身心架的时候学校应该就要借助来做一些心理的辅导因为这才能够符合当初我们设计身心架的这样一个条规这点没有问题但重点就是我们有这么多的辅导人力吗学校的辅导人力到底有没有到位"},{"start":3639.779,"end":3654.273,"text":"那我想在前年的时候呢我们通过的学辅法然后呢我们通过的要增加的编制那一年过去的次长目前为止我们增补了多少位人类诶 详细的事我们是不是请那个国教署来"},{"start":3654.673,"end":3683.45,"text":"好那我是不是也可以順便問一下這個編制的準則到底公布了沒有要增加人力要增加經費要增加我們當初說要能夠抓住這個能夠接住學生的每一個人這個輔導人力我們的編制準則公布了沒編制準則的部分已經公布但是我原來擔心的學校輔導人力的部分的薪資那麼目前第二版已經送給行政院在我們每次來這邊都是聽到送到行政院那行政院到底在拖什麼呢"},{"start":3684.13,"end":3691.738,"text":"因為它有跨部門的協調應該很快就出來但是剛剛委員有講到人數了那時候委員審議的時候是增加136到192人最高限會增加到192另外輔導老師的部分會增加600人所以整個加起來會增加800人"},{"start":3701.067,"end":3729.085,"text":"这个有关他们专府人员的合理调薪我觉得这个要跟行政院去做好的争取比方我每次站在这个质询台上我听到的都是在送到行政院然后已经很快了如果这去年一月算是很快那现在已经过了一年了我个人觉得这个部分可以再加强好了那我们现在就特别来特别问到所以你就告诉我们给专府人员的调薪应该很快就有结果了是不是是的预估在什么时候现在三月"},{"start":3730.091,"end":3747.695,"text":"是不是给我们一天的时间今天下班前跟委员回报我不想在下次站这个质询台的时候还要问同样的问题那我们刚刚特别提到了这个身心架的问题我想这个大学高中都有那据说目前的国中国小也要来推动身心架有这件事吗"},{"start":3753.555,"end":3772.227,"text":"高中的部分现在在实施中实施的情况会作为国中或国小来参与那目前还在我们已经收集完国中抱歉国中的意见跟高中实施一年的经验好那你们认为觉得在国中国小实施的可能可行性"},{"start":3773.067,"end":3785.754,"text":"是有的嗎老師跟委員報告國中 國小跟高中以上那麼受家長整體的聯動會比較有關這個可能地方政府反映的意見我們要很尊重目前聽起來是還需要"},{"start":3789.136,"end":3817.78,"text":"对你讲的非常的含蓄因为这个问题非常的多因为必须签到6到12岁12岁到15岁而且我们这个经过儿少法五是一条虽然国小是6到12岁国中是这个年纪但是还有一条的法规就特别提到需要特别看护的儿童及少年独处的时候你还是必须要有人来代为照顾没错吧这个部分所以当你要提到国小跟国中的时候这个配套如果你没有处理完毕"},{"start":3818.3,"end":3841.241,"text":"他身心受到这样的一个创伤如果没有家长那家长如果要陪伴在家的话那是否他的职场的友善度还有其他相关的一个配套如果完全没有把考虑进来的话即使你有这样的美意我想你也很难执行这同意吧署长或次长可以吧所以在目前为止可行性目前收集完毕然后呢可行性多少"},{"start":3844.431,"end":3863.104,"text":"目前因為跟各縣市在商議的過程中出發線救助委員考慮的面向很多所以老實說他還在這個過程中甚至還需要一點時間為什麼還需要時間我不曉得要等多久但是我剛剛特別提出來這個部分還是要直指即使有這樣的身心價考慮家長的問題考慮其他的問題"},{"start":3865.305,"end":3889.333,"text":"还是一样国小通常就只有一名辅导老师嘛为什么大家在排到这个法令的时候一定要把这样的数据特别提出来因为我们的心理的卫生其实呢它牵涉到非常多的层面不管学生层面家长层面或是老师的一个层面你看近年来校园的暴力这么样的多学生滥用要我们的霸凌等等之类很多都是因为压力过大心理不健康的"},{"start":3889.853,"end":3900.903,"text":"所以我本期在这期当中特别提出了16条17条希望能够开设有关于健康的相关的课程那这个部分把它入法有困难吗"},{"start":3902.824,"end":3928.645,"text":"跟委員報告事實上現在他應該已經算是入法而且入到課程在課程剛要的健康教育體育但是所以既然你在實施的話在九個面向中就有一個面向沒有你如果說基本上你已經在做我看到你昨天很晚收到你們的這樣子的報告既然已經在做那你把他入法然後更增加這個相關預算跟市值的經修資源不是剛好與法有據反而更加能夠強調他的法治地位嗎對所以"},{"start":3930.426,"end":3957.785,"text":"这应该没有什么问题嘛委员所了解的这个现象的确是这样那其实我们在逐条审议的时候在一些细节跟委员回报这样好不好当然是需要我其实就是希望能够把它放进来这样能够让这整个资源失源能够更加被保障为什么这个问题真的我们应该很严格的来看待我们像死亡率来看一下15岁到20岁死亡率是很明显的来攀升我想两位都会看到这样的数据都觉得非常的"},{"start":3958.706,"end":3979.239,"text":"非常的震惊啊那你看以前是2021年每10万人是4.5人2023年已经是增加到7点7点了然后呢更不要说我们的校园的通报数字真的完全是暴增我今天在这边提到虽然说四聚非常的可怕但是我们还是鼓励学校还是要勇敢很直接的呈报出来"},{"start":3979.759,"end":4002.901,"text":"虽然说数据看起来你看五年之内成长是5到12倍而且呢国小通报数字的成长数是10倍国中更是成长12倍我不晓得我们现在孩子的压力到到这么样的程度那次长再看下面一个15到24岁看到没有我们各年龄层不管是老年中年跟我们青少年跟儿童来看"},{"start":4003.982,"end":4024.993,"text":"15到24岁就是我们从国中到大学这个阶段这个族群的自杀死亡率几乎是翻倍每一个部分里面我们大家看到红色这条线就只有这个族群它是逐年在上升其他的族群有时候有低有上你看老年这一块因为大家强力的这样做很多的一个辅导反而是逐年下降"},{"start":4025.433,"end":4052.231,"text":"有些地方是上升有地方是下降你看就只有红色这一条15到20岁是从过去到现在目前是逐次的上升如果没有任何一个机制来做一个辅助的话他不晓得天际线会到什么地方这就是我们认为你缺乏一个心理健康你缺乏非常多的经费上面的一个补足所以我才认为说在这个所谓的心理健康特别有些进修的一个建设的一个标准上面应该把它更完整的实行"},{"start":4052.631,"end":4080.887,"text":"因為你要讓所有的老師都有受過這樣一個專業的一個教育否則孩子的自殺數越來越高你接不住他你的資源沒有進來你就只能看到他一直一直往上提升嘛不是嗎我想委員關心的這個數據我們都蠻關心的也蠻這個那有關心理健康的這些補助其實都有在做可能做的這個量跟能不足我還是覺得希望入法的時候我們會在逐條修法的時候來討論"},{"start":4081.727,"end":4103.929,"text":"入法的时候足条修法是要请务必重视这个问题最主要是我们的资源的到位还有人力的到位这些都是非常重要我再一次的呼吁十年前的两倍如果我们没有提及时停损的话他就会无限的往上去提升到时候我们接不住孩子也因为是来自于我们的人力不足的话那这点都是我们非常遗憾的事情"},{"start":4104.329,"end":4132.668,"text":"既然我們已經通過就請次長跟署長這麼樣重視就請好好的在法的條文再跟行政院溝通不要再告訴我那是跨部會我們都知道是跨部會的問題那就好好的跟跨部會來做個研議我希望在今天下午之前能夠告訴我這些的到位什麼時候可以補足可以嗎我們會就人力薪資以及未來的這些計畫來做一些盤點如果不足我們一定會增加好然後最主要是時間一定要很清楚的告訴我什麼時候可以把它補足好謝謝"},{"start":4134.509,"end":4155.793,"text":"好 我們謝謝柯志恩委員的發言我想學校的這個輔導能力很重要所以趕快補足那還有調心相關的一些資料也麻煩國教署還有我們今天要提供給柯志恩委員的資料也請給我一份 謝謝我們有請下一位發言的委員羅志強委員有請次長"},{"start":4169.311,"end":4176.228,"text":"市長好台灣的生育率不斷地下降那出生人數比起10年前甚至腰斬"},{"start":4177.472,"end":4199.747,"text":"那也有一些看到一些專家提出所謂自然亡國的警訊就如果出生率不提振的話那有一天實際上我們台灣人口會慢慢凋零你覺得這個問題嚴不嚴重啊非常嚴重非常嚴重那我告訴你啊我們已經少子化問題這麼嚴重少子化到如果這樣維持下去的話我們甚至可能最嚴重叫自然亡國"},{"start":4201.26,"end":4213.068,"text":"可是我們在學校我們青年學生的自殺率卻不斷的提高自殺通報數不斷的提高請問次長這不就是雙重在夾殺我們台灣的未來嗎是不是這個數據確實是驚人那當然我們會"},{"start":4218.171,"end":4243.877,"text":"來瞭解就如果是輔導人力不足我們學生輔導法修了之後從國小到國中到高中到大學其實都在增加輔導人力那如果是有關教師專業不足的部分呢我們也會希望能夠多做一些計畫讓這個真的有心理健康問題的孩子能夠得到適時的輔導市長你真的責任重大我們先來看看到底現在自殺自傷的狀況有多嚴重"},{"start":4246.218,"end":4253.53,"text":"根據教育部校園通報113年學生自傷的人有多少人次"},{"start":4257.186,"end":4279.188,"text":"兩萬零兩百七十一人次啦 對不對 沒錯吧兩萬 對 去年兩萬六千四百八十六 通報那你知道一一二年一一一年相較的話一一二年我看到的資料是一萬五千一百九十六人次一一一年是一萬八千 一萬一千八百六十九人次"},{"start":4279.949,"end":4294.704,"text":"也就是兩年這個通報數增加了一倍那106年我們講10年前是1652人次換言之這10年成長了12.3倍我這用觸目驚心來形容當然我要這樣講"},{"start":4295.925,"end":4316.856,"text":"我知道官員會說通報數增加是因為在校園對防制自殺意識的提高但是我想次長也不會否認自殺人數確實在增加吧所以我們可以看到今天我再問次長你知道十年來我們各級學校學生總數是增加還是減少減少63萬"},{"start":4320.373,"end":4338.636,"text":"所以我們就出現一個非常恐怖的狀況啊我們的學校人數學生數正在下降而且是快速下降因為少子化很嚴重嘛但是我們的自殺跟自殺率我先不講所謂通報數我就講自殺率也在增加"},{"start":4339.696,"end":4353.781,"text":"所以你今天總體人數在下降結果你自殺也一樣在增加那這就是代表說今天我們剛剛前面講的整個台灣的危機就是處在這個少子化再加上學校如果不能好好保護學生的話"},{"start":4354.801,"end":4366.168,"text":"那麼國家未來在哪裡所以為什麼今天要這邊跟我們次長說我們來看看問題的嚴重性我們對照衛福部自殺通報的人次統計104年14歲以下是379人15到24歲是4389人次113年"},{"start":4375.854,"end":4380.957,"text":"14歲以下暴增為3998人次15到24歲則暴增為14547人次這種已經顯見我們青少年心理健康風險跟急劇的擴散跟惡化我想請問市長"},{"start":4396.735,"end":4426.316,"text":"面對這樣的一個嚴峻的情況我們對於校園端的自殺防治有沒有什麼樣我覺得更具體的對策能夠接住這些我們未來國家年輕的生命我所知道的包括我們學務室這邊的計畫還有國教署這邊在落實各級學校在防治心理健康還有目前在推的社會情緒學習其實有很多面向還有包括增加學生護照人力"},{"start":4426.536,"end":4427.818,"text":"是不是是細節的部分,我請市長來檢討"},{"start":4431.124,"end":4459.077,"text":"各位委員報告其實我們在學校智商和智商的部分我們有點點相關的一個智商三級的一個預防工作計畫那另外我們這兩年有在特別推動SEL計畫那SEL主要是要讓學生可以了解自己的情緒狀態那我們另外有推動像智商守門人這樣子的一個相關的一個措施那有補助學校可以有精神科的醫師住校然後我們會補助教官的終點費我跟教育部說"},{"start":4460.305,"end":4482.664,"text":"我們要看的就是結果 結果 結果真的 這個問題也不是今天提出來你關於所謂自殺防治乃至於所謂少子化的問題我相信我們這一屆的立委很多人都在不斷關心跟質詢這個問題但是目前看到就是顯然沒有接觸那我們這時間是非常緊迫的"},{"start":4483.405,"end":4503.198,"text":"所以我再問一下根據衛福部的全國自殺防治中心成果報告由高處跳下自殺跟自傷是國小國中跟高中生主要的自殺方式跟自殺死因對於這一點我想問就光這一點教育部要怎麼樣去有具體的防治策略"},{"start":4503.638,"end":4530.243,"text":"各位報告我們的確有發現說那個從高處墜落是的確是治傷的一個最主要的原因那這個部分其實我們有要求各個學校在他的那個高樓層的部分要就是加強他的那個防罪的一個相關的一個措施然後包括他的那個相關的圍牆什麼等等的這部分我們現在都有要求然後也要求學校就是要做這方面的相關的巡邏和檢查我真的拜託教育部啦"},{"start":4532.059,"end":4552.359,"text":"每一個孩子都是家長心裡的一塊肉就拜託我們教育部真的努力動起來接住這些我們的這些年輕的孩子們兒福聯盟發布的2025年台灣青少年心理健康調查超過兩成的青少年曾經浮現自殺念頭"},{"start":4553.639,"end":4580.139,"text":"雖然多數學生認同心理健康專業協助的重要性跟效果但是還是有四成在面臨心理困擾的時候選擇沉默跟不求助就算開口因為現在有AI跟AI傾訴也不是尋求專業的支持這些都是我覺得是非常需要正視的問題所以雖然前年我們修正學生輔導法也增加校園中的專業輔導能力但如果心理問題"},{"start":4582.221,"end":4598.148,"text":"受心理問題之苦的學生沒有被發現也就不會去主動來去求助輔導人員難以獲得幫助所以這一次學生衛生法修正我有提出心理健康教育要明文納入學校健康的相關課程"},{"start":4599.689,"end":4623.783,"text":"來協助學生面對壓力跟調節情緒這一點我也希望教育部一起努力好我們在這個做主條的時候我們一起我也來討論那有關其實那個心理健康的部分不會只有教育部包括衛福部包括各部會我們也都非常重視所以那個計畫的那個相關的那個怎麼樣子來有效具體落實除了人力資源還有未來的計畫"},{"start":4624.884,"end":4637.718,"text":"那跨部會怎麼合作 我們會更加積極來處理謝謝委員的關心好 謝謝教育部 謝謝好 我們謝謝羅志強委員的發言我們下一位葛龍軍委員發言"},{"start":4656.256,"end":4679.962,"text":"好謝謝主席有請教育部張亮萬堅次長好有請次長來委員好次長好今天感謝趙偉安排學校衛生法的詢答有很多委員的提案那也包含本席的修法版本都提到教育部自112年8月1號起有實施友善多元提供"},{"start":4681.342,"end":4702.273,"text":"友善提供多元生理用品的计划在全国各级学校10处部署场馆以及针对将近10万名不利处境的学生或为随身携带生理用品而有急需的学生以及进入部署场馆的民众来提供多元生理用品在校内以及部署场馆也设置地点去做急需取用"},{"start":4702.873,"end":4724.834,"text":"在預算上面112年投入新台幣1億200萬元到113年度每年編列預算2億5000萬元那想請教一下次長我先這個要感謝就無論是從性別平等健康平權或友善效應的角度出發社會各界真的是對於教育部來推行這樣的計劃都給予高度的支持跟肯定"},{"start":4725.635,"end":4747.148,"text":"那既然教育部敢做愿意做我们是不是应该要共同努力让友善提供多元生理用品这个计划不要只是计划而已他要可以明确入法让法治政策和预算可以全方面的来完备让这个计划可以永续的推动可不可以请次长来正面的表态一下"},{"start":4748.086,"end":4772.766,"text":"我想委員所建議的入法的精神其實跟我們現在計畫都是一樣的喔那包括我們在112年8月1號實施的友善提供多元生理用品計畫那麼在112年在燒錢3月31號也提供了校園及部署場館提供多元生理至少我打斷您您現在在重複我剛剛講的我只問您願不願意支持把它入法我想"},{"start":4773.806,"end":4794.401,"text":"主條的時候我們可以來討論可以討論嗎?吃不吃吃?委員提供的意見我想因為我們這個修法的時候在場會有很多委員各式不同的意見那我們當然都會尊重那是要不要入法那目前的計畫跟指引是不是足夠這個都是可以討論的"},{"start":4795.686,"end":4823.795,"text":"我想這個市長我想這個剛剛也都給您很多的credit啦大家社會大眾也都很支持目前計畫其實編了不少預算啦大學跟高中以下都有可是你編了預算你沒有入法明年會不會沒有後年會不會沒有我想在委員的監督下不會沒有啦這個時候我們突然我們委員又變得很大了嗎要不要入法可以討論但事實上還沒有入法前我們透過計畫指引都做的因為委員在質詢的時候都有提到市長我覺得這樣的態度"},{"start":4825.757,"end":4849.205,"text":"我覺得是不夠負責啦那這樣我覺得也都不要教育部啦我們都立法院來執行就好啦我們也不需要行政院啦其實就是一個彼此尊重嘛那也希望啦到時候如果我們明文入法的話也希望我們教育部來支持甚至我們也希望教育部就直接研議來修法你現在講的不清不楚我們給你時間可不可以一個月內將研議的結果書面提供給本席可以嗎"},{"start":4849.645,"end":4868.9,"text":"一個月內可以好謝謝那我想這個我們正面積極來對抗還有面對我們社會的情勢那除了將這個相關的生理用品的計劃明文入法以外這次也有非常多的委員提案關心學生的心理健康促進的問題那本席對青少年的心理健康也說非常重視"},{"start":4869.761,"end":4895.219,"text":"那根据俄服联盟的相关的这个这个报告有提到17.7%的青少年有中度以上的情绪困扰10%大概有中度以上的自杀意念那20.5%的青少年每周有两到三次不想去学校的念头23.6%的青少年经历中等程度以上的睡眠困扰大家都非常辛苦少年韦特总是有烦恼"},{"start":4895.899,"end":4919.83,"text":"然而青少年面对这样的困扰的时候选择求助的对象我不知道次长有没有看过这个表最高的是和朋友同学来倾诉44%其次是爸妈33%再来不会跟任何人谈可能有17%最引人瞩目的就是深层式AI居然占第4名占比高达15%竟然还胜过了"},{"start":4920.43,"end":4946.482,"text":"像学校辅导老师啊非辅导式的老师啊心理健康人员等等当然我们觉得大家都一起来努力但是啊我们担心的是这样子的深层式AI的管道我们到底有没有在关心请教一下次长青少年心理健康问题越来越受重视教育部对于青少年寻求深层式AI来解决心理困扰的态度和立场到底是什么是支持鼓励"},{"start":4947.403,"end":4949.848,"text":"還是堅決反對還是有沒有什麼樣的立場補充市長"},{"start":4951.752,"end":4980.898,"text":"我想現在網路世代會求助AI我想是一個很正常的一個現象但是如果是真的遇到心理健康我們當然不會鼓勵孩子做這個AI只是尋求AI的這個不鼓勵啊所以15%都不鼓勵不是就是說我們理解已經有15%在做那你不鼓勵的話你的動作是什麼那希望他當然能夠希望我們現在學武法修法之後我們對於學校的輔導老師人力的增加還有諮詢人力各位老師的專業的一些"},{"start":4982.96,"end":4996.937,"text":"詢問好 謝謝市長我想你有想法啦但是我們其實沒有看見具體的因應措施事實已經正在發生比例還有可能提高那我們今天審查這樣的一個學校衛生法有重規師"},{"start":4997.938,"end":5023.619,"text":"有学生事务以及特殊教育师学特师有知科师有高中以下又有国教署负责我们现在看到这个三本AI的指引我们也感谢教育部很负责做了这样的指引但本席翻遍了这三个版本非常完整非常厚但是里面对于AI工具解决心理困扰的界限还有注意的事项还有您刚刚的提醒完全置之未提"},{"start":5024.6,"end":5053.586,"text":"所以次長您剛剛口口聲聲說不鼓勵但是又重視青少年心理健康可是又有15%的人在透過青少這個AI來尋求這個理解跟慰藉您可不可以告訴大家到底用深層式AI來做心理健康的這個議題到底是教育部哪個業務單位來主責啊我剛才跟您說明的是說現在網路世代他會去求助AI是一個自然的現象"},{"start":5054.326,"end":5082.779,"text":"所以你說有15%我想不只是青少年包括我們成人在面臨各項問題包括我自己有健康問題我也會問AI那只是一個參酌我自然的現象大國不鼓勵嘛不要問A答B啦我已經理解了事前市長說明我就說那這個議題我們想跟教育部了解啊學生想了解家長想了解學校想了解還是裡面完全沒有要問誰委員的提醒問哪一個單位我們當然會來了解說這個學生的部分如果"},{"start":5083.641,"end":5085.894,"text":"對 學律師的部分我們來請他補充要不要說"},{"start":5087.165,"end":5112.838,"text":"所以是找學特師嗎跟委員報告就是有關資商輔導的部分其實AI的盛行我們現在有注意到然後學生也會運用這方面來當作初步的自我了解的一個工具但是我們強調它是工具所以這個部分我們目前有在協助我們現場第一線的老師怎麼樣運用這樣的一個AI工具來協助學生然後在資商輔導上面做一個運用好 我接下來想要問一下次長補充我先謝謝學特師"},{"start":5113.698,"end":5128.797,"text":"那剛剛說一下剛剛次長說不鼓勵剛剛我們學測試又說我們要引導他們使用其實是非常的混亂那我再問次長根據清華大學的王道維教授有說心理健康領域有陪伴諮詢諮商"},{"start":5130.399,"end":5154.603,"text":"那到底請問市長您不鼓勵是不鼓勵陪伴的部分也不要不是那學特是說我們也鼓勵諮詢的部分來運用AI我說不鼓勵是說不要完全只停留在AI的諮詢上所以我覺得是這樣市長我覺得您的態度的用面但是不用AI來詢問是自然的現象我剛才一直在強調但是您說不鼓勵又很自然大家搞不懂嘛所以不要斷章取義嘛我的意思是說不要"},{"start":5154.963,"end":5182.79,"text":"鼓勵職階子停留在AI的諮詢中應該學校還有很多輔導資源可以運用謝謝次長正面答覆但是因為這個部分的議題真的有一點混亂啦所以希望教育部可不可以有跨業務的單位來進行研議次長可不可以當場承諾教育部會針對學生來使用AI的心理健康議題不管是鼓勵不鼓勵怎麼用哪一個階段用成立一個部內的跨業務單位的協調平台定期召開會議委員的提醒非常重要我們將來知道了這個"},{"start":5183.37,"end":5203.622,"text":"委員所提供的數據我們也會來跨單位來整理好不好這不是將來這是現在一個月內可不可以把研議的結果你們部內先整理嗎不要現在一下子提到議題就說又跨部會了可不可以一個月內部內的跨單位的研議結果書面提供給我們我們學務室會主持一個月內學特斯嗎學務室對"},{"start":5205.863,"end":5219.169,"text":"學務組他現在臉有點尷尬這個想說可以兩個月嗎兩個月好兩個月但我認為跨部會跨單位還是很重要好不好那我想這個接下來市長我可能還是要跟主席爭取一點時間"},{"start":5220.31,"end":5240.919,"text":"因為這個解決用生成式AI來解決心理的問題很可能會落入暗黑AI的問題因為AI有分免費跟付費的免費的很可能會有一些漏洞有一些黑洞很可能會有一些假的AI所以我想要再次提示我們之前再次的提倡多次的提倡發放教育部評估一下發放AIB"},{"start":5243.28,"end":5268.569,"text":"就是說讓青年有一個機會用付費的方式去用一些比較好的有credit的這些數位的AI的服務跟平台不要不小心用AI就落入到詐騙集團的AI到最後還跟他傾訴心事最後變成被拐去當車手我覺得這是非常非常高風險的我們要致力於讓他們認識到AI的相關邊界這樣可以嗎"},{"start":5269.71,"end":5273.855,"text":"我想我的關心非常重要 我們會來研議好 那我想最後一個議題就是這個學習歷程的部分"},{"start":5277.287,"end":5306.79,"text":"那我想这个我最近办公室收到李嘉彤教授的来信他说学习历程档案其实有它的意义但讽刺的是学生如果诚实就很难准备这份文件那我现在拿到的是这个2023年发表的学习历程相关的指南那里面有说同学在制作的时候有分组的话要列出比例要列出谁但是假设学生跟AI共创"},{"start":5307.31,"end":5329.576,"text":"或者運用AI來建造思考的流程其實到底有沒有要像這個報告一樣去揭露結果我們找了2024年的教師及學生使用深層式人工智慧協助撰寫學生學習歷程檔案的注意事項裡面你們只提了五個字叫做有用的話應清楚標示"},{"start":5330.536,"end":5344.392,"text":"到底要標什麼?要標比例嗎?要標用途嗎?要標用處嗎?市長我想要表達的是現在AI使用的情形已經非常不一樣了現在這一份裡面也沒有標註有沒有用AI"},{"start":5345.393,"end":5369.163,"text":"你們的AI的3.0的指引也沒有標註有沒有要用AI你們自己都不用標註為什麼學生就要因清楚標示每一個學校規範也都不同我的意見非常具體希望次長可不可以開始聽取家長學生的意見儘速邀集學者專家檢討學習歷程當中有關使用AI的規定盡可能的"},{"start":5370.043,"end":5397.813,"text":"去用開放的心態來面對怎麼標示怎麼做到標示這件事情不是只是五個字就完成因為連部內自己都做不到可以嗎 次長可以 那部長已經只是在檢討學習歷程檔案這個相關的問題那有關你提到的委員提到的AI的部分我們也會來重視有沒有具體的期程因為這個現在馬上要到學期大家很困擾 不好意思主席最後一名的時間可以 高教師這邊已經在提計畫了"},{"start":5400.216,"end":5424.326,"text":"各位報告那是否我們在兩個月內來做一個檢討好不要不要不要讓家長無所適從因為這五個字各校規則不一好不好OK好謝謝謝謝次長謝謝主席好謝謝好我們謝謝葛國勇委員的發言請問一下教育部兩個月會不會太久不好意思我在詢問所以沒辦法提前"},{"start":5432.213,"end":5453.921,"text":"好 請儘速提供相關資料給本會所有的委員 謝謝我們現在下一位有請我們陳秀寶委員謝謝主席 請張亮次長有請次長"},{"start":5460.407,"end":5476.889,"text":"好委員好社長好社長我們在第十屆第二次的會期的時候我們在教委會有通過學校免費提供生理優品這個臨時提案當時您也是這個連署的共同提案對"},{"start":5477.89,"end":5501.592,"text":"那我们那时候是要求教育部应该研议各级学校免费提供生理用品那教育部也有采纳委员的建议积极的办理在112学年度就开始来办理学校免费提供生理用品等相关的政策不过政策在执行难免有不够完善的地方本席在这边还是要提出具体的问题也请教育部可以持续来精进"},{"start":5502.433,"end":5508.902,"text":"這一步實施的友善提供多元生理用品計畫有公民團體在2024年進行相關調查竟然有高達70.3%的學生是沒有使用過拿取過提供的生理用品"},{"start":5517.774,"end":5531.409,"text":"那其中的原因當然有一些是他們自己本身有準備不需要去拿這個提供的那裡面有20.7%的學生是不知道要去哪裡索取但有12.5%的學生是不知道有這個計畫然後有7.1%的學生則認為說他們沒有挑到適合他們用的品項"},{"start":5538.797,"end":5555.127,"text":"那關於生理用品這個放置的位置呢因為沒有統一的規範因為大部分的學生可能也許他知道說學校有但是不知道他可能是放置在哪裡那這個部分就表示說我們政策在宣導不是很清楚"},{"start":5555.807,"end":5573.184,"text":"以及我們在放置這個位置我們沒有去規範這也可能是導致說有高達七成的學生沒有索取過這些生理用品的主因當然我們去調查的時候很多學生第一個想到就是說那這樣的東西應該是放在健康中心"},{"start":5574.085,"end":5592.327,"text":"所以健康中心是一個學生比較會馬上想到的地方那如果學校是有宣導的有告訴學生有這樣的訊息出來的他們就會知道說去哪裡索取這些他們需要的物品那公民團體這邊也指出我們在政策上只要求學校設一個定點"},{"start":5593.428,"end":5621.586,"text":"沒有強制規定要設在哪裡所以很容易讓學生說有的學校放在我剛剛講的這個健康中心有的放在廁所有的放在輔導處有的放在學務處之類的這樣子所以是不是說我們應該要更明確的宣導讓學校來告知學生什麼地方可以拿到這些生理用品不然有時候他們是緊急下使用的時候會沒有辦法順利的取得"},{"start":5621.966,"end":5639.253,"text":"所以針對這些放置點用品的補充 相關宣導教育部這邊可以再精進嗎好 可以 我們在115年2月的時候有針對委員所提到的就是有公民團體提出這樣的意見所以我們有做了一些指引的修正我們是不是細節我們請那個市長來OK 你把修正的這些一份報告給我辦公室好 可以那再來我們來討論市長或是在場的官員因為你們對教育現場都非常的了解是不是"},{"start":5650.678,"end":5672.543,"text":"也會聽說過有對話中會說女生可能說我那個來了我想借那個我想次長你聽得懂這兩個那個是不同的是什麼意思那為什麼這樣說呢是因為有一個國中生他跟記者說他有一次突然身體起到他需要用到生理用品的時候他記得學校有宣導說在學務處有"},{"start":5674.904,"end":5685.396,"text":"所以他一進去學務處找了一個男老師問的時候這男老師就比了一個方形的這樣手勢然後告訴旁邊的女老師說這個學生要見那個那這個學生就覺得很納悶說"},{"start":5689.941,"end":5711.555,"text":"我觉得说我们这么置于在性别平权跟健康教育但为什么学校的老师还会觉得说把月经把卫生棉讲出来是一件很害羞的事情那学生也觉得很纳闷为什么要说那个卫生棉生理用品不是很必然的很自然的一个物品为什么不能直接说所以次长您觉得哦"},{"start":5711.795,"end":5737.887,"text":"在這樣子我們還存在說也許沒那麼嚴重但是有的女生會覺得這是一種月經羞辱那我們算是有真正的落實性別平權嗎我想這個需要一點時間那我們其實在推動漸漸的我們也這個都我們在112年當時在設立相關的指引的時候其實到今年的2月我們也不斷在修正那也希望說"},{"start":5739.508,"end":5756.61,"text":"在校園現場推動的時候譬如說剛才你調查的報告裡面不知道放在哪裡然後或者說現在講的蘭里奇耻等等我想這個都跟整個健康教育有關啊也跟這個平權的那個兩性平權的落實有關不過這個真的"},{"start":5757.631,"end":5760.875,"text":"真的需要持續來推動我覺得委員講得非常正確這方面我們會加強用計畫的方式來跟學校現場來做加強因為其實教育部能夠採納委員的意見來推這樣子的一個政策其實"},{"start":5775.111,"end":5790.638,"text":"是帮助到很多需要的女生那我也希望说教育部针对说如何消米月经歧视并且就改善友善提供多元生理用品这个计划你们是不是你们在两个月之内提供书面报告给本席办公室"},{"start":5791.558,"end":5816.845,"text":"兩個OK嗎可以可以沒問題可以喔好那接下來呢我們來關心就是校園安全問題這也是很多委員都很關心的光是今年到現在3月就已經傳出有多起校園暴力事件而且大多是學生持刀恐嚇同學的事件那其中有學生竟然是從學校的健康中心拿走水果刀衝到教室要找同學理論"},{"start":5817.825,"end":5825.075,"text":"市長我想請問您不只是健康中心在校園裡面我們像刀類這樣物品的管理我們有沒有相關的規範"},{"start":5826.673,"end":5851.477,"text":"學校裡面當然是不可以攜帶不過如果你講這個個案喔不是攜帶是另外一個話題現在說他這個學生是從健康中心裡面拿到水果刀那我們在校園裡面不只是健康中心在辦公室啊還是說其他相關的辦公的場所像刀類不是刀類你怎麼管理怎麼規範你不可能隨便放在桌上吧那你怎麼去管理這些刀類呢有沒有規範"},{"start":5855.781,"end":5868.598,"text":"這個應該各校他們會自己會有一些在常識上的管理所以如果學校有因為這樣的個案發生然後造成學生很輕易拿到那當然這是學校在管理上必須要去改進"},{"start":5869.679,"end":5890.471,"text":"學校事情管理但是我覺得說既然有發生過這樣的現象這樣的事情的時候教育部也有這樣的責任要提醒學校該去注意說相關刀類危險物品該如何規制該如何管理你不能讓學生可以很隨意的你今天殺到他是拿刀去恐嚇學生如果是"},{"start":5891.432,"end":5905.204,"text":"學生進去到健康中心看他上面有打他拿起來玩而割傷了自己那算不算是一個他管理上的疏失所以這個部分是不是應該我們教育部這邊也有責任要提醒學校對於這些刀類的管理收藏怎麼"},{"start":5907.981,"end":5928.184,"text":"我們大概都有一些學務人力的學務的相關的那個檢討工作檢討我們這樣會因為每個學校情況不太一樣像職科的他有一些參與科他的道具是一定會有譬如說還有有一些營養午餐的那個廚房那他裡面也一定會有那學校的譬如說導師室他可能會有一些做美工的"},{"start":5929.545,"end":5946.161,"text":"對,所以這個部分,我想,我是認為說這個應該是一個,有發生這樣的憾事當然要特別注意啦,就是說平常就要特別注意,那這個既然已經又發生這樣的案件,我們當然會將來在一些學務人力的那個檢討,工作檢討的時候會來強化這方面的一個宣導"},{"start":5946.721,"end":5960.991,"text":"好那針對像多次討論這個學生從校園外面帶刀進入校園這個部分呢教育部是不是有研議要如何改善那像這些比如說曾經遲到的這些孩子我們有沒有透過學校來加強輔導以及關心"},{"start":5963.272,"end":5990.224,"text":"對,我們其實有一些有關學校訂定教師輔導與管理學校的辦法裡面其實有做一些修正那修正裡面呢也可以要給這個老師對於這個有攜帶的那個之餘的學生可以進行檢查以前就怕說我亂收會被送消失會我想這個部分老師他在管教權上面我們事實上是有放有在修法把它放寬也讓老師有那個主動檢查權"},{"start":5991.505,"end":6019.975,"text":"其实本席是可以理解说学校如果我们要事前去辨识学生带危险物品的这个难度比较高因为我们不能随意的来检查学生的书包但是我们教育部应该如何跟学校来合作来维护学校的这个校园安全我希望教育部应该要正式我们应该有更具体的相关的做法包括事件的处理后续的追踪如何预防我希望这个你们也是两个月给我一个报告好没问题两个月"},{"start":6020.595,"end":6044.566,"text":"同樣就是這個校園的這個暴力的事件的衍生我們應該去注意的是孩子的心理的狀況我們其實我們現在都知道說孩子好像就是壓力很大但是身為大人有些我們有時候是沒有辦法理解說他的壓力來源因為是太多元因為學生他們感受到的這些壓力是太多元但本席希望說我們可以盡量協助並且來接觸這些孩子"},{"start":6045.026,"end":6065.413,"text":"那有這個團體有了調查我們台灣兒少所承受的壓力從課業負擔甚至到外貿的焦慮都有那還有近市場的兒少有這種很嚴重的心理的疏離感他們會認為說世界少了我也沒有關係這個每五人就有一個人有出現社交焦慮的這種狀況"},{"start":6066.934,"end":6089.705,"text":"所以這樣的數據是反映出來孩子缺乏人際互動修復的能力過半數的孩子吵架之後他不知道怎麼跟對方打破僵局那面對衝突的這個能力呢比2019年的這個數據出來表現得更低落那更值得注意的是說我們台灣兒少的課業壓力呢也比其他國際間的其他國家更早"},{"start":6090.886,"end":6107.766,"text":"出现最主要的状况说我们刚才有提到说我们甚至说孩子对自己的外貌也有很高的焦虑感那次长您觉得说我们在学校的系统或是我们学校的教育下面我们还能提供什么样的支持面对孩子们他们产生的这些压力"},{"start":6108.266,"end":6129.821,"text":"所以事實上在學生輔導修法的時候我們大院已經就人力不足的部分我們逐年在補足這第一個第二個就是說現在整個教育部這邊也在訂定整個SEL社會情緒學習的相關的計畫跟辦法跟補助也在全面推動希望能夠辦理正向心理的相關多元化的一個健康促進的活動"},{"start":6130.461,"end":6156.512,"text":"那當然我們也希望說將來有一些高風險的高風險的一些或者高官懷學生的一個預防篩檢跟輔導機制這個能夠擴大深入辦理如果說我們過去我們會盤點一下說過去也有這樣的一個機制那我們在辦理是不是可以能夠更擴大或者是協同在採訪法之後協同地方政府一起來做除了人力配置以外相關的計畫也都能"},{"start":6156.952,"end":6170.822,"text":"這個教育部正要正式其實在兒萌的調查我們有七成二的兒少對生活感到滿意表示說我們所提供給他的資源物質在生活上尤其像他們對自己的家庭居住的家他們是很滿意的"},{"start":6171.843,"end":6193.233,"text":"但是呢對於這個人生選擇還是自我認同這個掌握感他們很明顯的表現是很不足的那我希望說我們教育部真的正視這個問題因為這些孩子們的壓力所衍生出來就第一個很明顯就他們可能不想上學抗拒上學那進一步引發的情緒的問題跟也許會有一些疾病出現那還有"},{"start":6193.833,"end":6218.696,"text":"種種的焦慮讓孩子沒有辦法從困住的情緒裡面走出來他可能就有偏激的行為像剛才提到的那些持刀去恐嚇同學可能表示就是說他不知道如何妥善的去跟同學這種他們有衝突的時候或是說他們有什麼意見不合的時候他沒有辦法用一種比較正確的正向的方向來解決他只能用這種很偏激的手法"},{"start":6219.076,"end":6239.402,"text":"所以這個如何協助我們的孩子減少焦慮走出情緒的問題我希望教育部您這邊有更具體的我們現在就有這個高關懷學生預防篩檢跟輔導機制我們未來會跟地方政務加強這方面的辦理或者甚至有需要不足的部分我們會來協助地方政務好 謝謝次長 謝謝主席"},{"start":6246.581,"end":6271.66,"text":"好 我們謝謝陳秀寶委員的發言我們下一位的委員是我們蔡村卓委員稍後在林益錦委員詢答完畢以後我們休息五分鐘主席還有各位同仁 大家好我們有請張耀次長"},{"start":6276.633,"end":6293.825,"text":"委員好次長好我們這一次學生衛生法修法討論的範圍涵蓋到業經友善於校園跟多元生理用品的一個支持還有校園食安與學生營養方面的"},{"start":6296.767,"end":6310.302,"text":"等的一個修法的方向那今天呢本席要打醒的是有關於身心障礙的一個學生的一個前意還有他一個特殊的特殊生的一個輔導"},{"start":6311.964,"end":6317.367,"text":"以及校園學生心理輔導等等的一個問題那我想身心傷害的一個輔導其實有它的歷史脈絡從1983年一直到2012年我們從慈善機構的一個醫療一直到現在人權的一個觀點"},{"start":6332.333,"end":6358.886,"text":"那麼他主要強調的就是要反歧視然後能夠平等的參與這個就是所謂的機會要平等然後社會要能夠共榮那我們如何在這個校園裡面如何以同理心來對待我們這些身心障礙的學生那根據教育基本法以及特殊教育法那保障身心障礙應該用"},{"start":6361.327,"end":6382.795,"text":"平等的一個受教權來對待我們的身心障礙的學生這應該是學校的一個法定的義務那請問一下教育部在針對各校調查這些身心障礙的學生是否有遭受到歧視或者是有沒有提供一個完善的一個服務我們教育部這裡有一套完整的一個通報的系統嗎"},{"start":6384.549,"end":6403.272,"text":"謝謝委員的關心跟詢問就是說其實在特教法修了之後我們其實增加了相應的相關的不少資源譬如說我們在逐步增加4年1600位的特教助理員或者是在這個提高特教老師的這個特教的家籍"},{"start":6403.792,"end":6421.062,"text":"植物家籍方面其實我們做了還有降低班級人數其實我們在台灣現在少子化之後有關特殊教育身心障礙孩子的受教權或者說剛才委員所關心的是不是遭受到歧視的問題都相當重視那我們強調的普特融合就是朝這個方向"},{"start":6421.542,"end":6444.497,"text":"希望在教育階段就讓一般生所謂的身障生或特殊生能夠學習生活互相理解包容好 謝謝那我們要調查說目前全國有重度重度還有極重度的身心障礙的學生的人數嗎有這個數字要不要來說明目前有12萬人"},{"start":6446.191,"end":6462.111,"text":"那剛剛我們剛剛那個我們次長有提到說每人要增加400位嘛400位的這個特教助理員那目前這個是從113年開始嘛那已經兩年了還有就是增加他們因為那個"},{"start":6463.473,"end":6477.423,"text":"六都或各縣市的待遇也不一我們也希望能夠全面對所以現在應該要增加到800人嘛是不是這個人數有到嗎增加1600人有都有吧那四年嘛你四年要增加"},{"start":6478.624,"end":6493.679,"text":"這一部分到每年我們都會大概在學期六月的時候會完整的調查那我們今天會後也把最近一次調查給維爾做報告 謝謝那我們現在關心的就是說現在的這些助理員夠不夠用啊"},{"start":6495.601,"end":6515.192,"text":"還有他待遇的問題我們現在要了解就是說我們現在目前的學生有多少需要有多少的助理員那夠不夠這些助理員他能不能就是說對這一份工作他會不會喜歡然後會不會用很愛心來"},{"start":6517.313,"end":6531.629,"text":"照顧我們這些身障的學生是我們一直在關心的而且是家長關心的過去在現場就是不斷反映說整個那個時數就是特教助理員使用時數不足還有就是說那個特教助理員的待遇不好"},{"start":6532.35,"end":6551.142,"text":"所以說很難招聘到人或者很難留住到人所以我們其實在特教法修法之後我們持續的在精進這些人力增加比如剛才提到的4年1600人還有就是這個調查了解各縣市的待遇讓它提高的比較一致"},{"start":6551.442,"end":6576.033,"text":"OK那我們更希望就是說這個照護員能夠譬如說他是國一學生然後他能夠從國一照顧到國三聯繫的因為他對他的一個狀況非常清楚我們希望就是能夠這些照護員能夠聯繫的同一同一個對象那這樣子呢他對於這些學生的一個了解狀況會照顧的會更好"},{"start":6579.586,"end":6602.547,"text":"我們有關委員所提的應該是指中重度的我們會跟地方縣市政府來提這樣的類似我們盡量讓它能夠一致的讓它能夠連貫這樣的想法非常好我們跟地方政府來研究因為還有家長懷孕譬如比較低中障礙的學生為什麼3點照護員就下班"},{"start":6604.147,"end":6609.126,"text":"這個比較中低度的照顧的時間是跟學生一樣的時間嗎"},{"start":6612.239,"end":6637.107,"text":"來 我們署長來回答謝謝委員詢問這個問題據我們了解有兩個情形第一個情形是各縣市的資源他會看個別學生他的IEP給予協助這是第一點第二點是各縣市的資源在今年開始會有獨立的特教的資源的挹注那這個挹注的方向可能還欠有一些的引導這兩點我們在今年的七月份的"},{"start":6637.927,"end":6641.471,"text":"特教科長的會議會來做一些活動會上我們希望是能夠從頭陪學生陪到下課那第二個第二項問題呢就是有關於特殊生的一個輔導"},{"start":6656.305,"end":6674.23,"text":"剛剛前面我也有提到 處長我今天在中國時報剛好有看到這一則就是血統社交焦慮 不想上學的學生有將近3.8倍"},{"start":6676.803,"end":6699.532,"text":"然後有六成他是睡不好覺的近四成呢也不知道如何交友那遇到困難呢他會轉向網路網路呢來宣洩他的情緒還有情緒認同那我們知道網路的一個環境是更不友善那還有就是"},{"start":6702.216,"end":6718.991,"text":"有很多老師他上課的快樂度不到50%這顯然就已經讓我們知道說學校的校園的氛圍目前是非常的不理想那次長你對這樣的一個今天就這樣報導你有什麼看法或者什麼對策"},{"start":6720.259,"end":6742.164,"text":"我想當然看到這樣報導心裡當然是覺得不是那麼高興啦但是就是說友善校園其實有很多面向啦那他調查了這個東西有關心理健康的部分或者說孩子上課情緒的問題我想"},{"start":6744.404,"end":6761.025,"text":"會有很多問題而且現在青少年的問題真的很複雜也不是只有教育部這邊像衛福部或相關設政單位也都在注意這個問題那剛才也有委員提到就是說那個網路世代過度依賴那個網路譬如說尋求AI的一些資訊這個剛剛市長已經有回答了我了解"},{"start":6763.928,"end":6786.509,"text":"所以我們會將來會把這個剛才那個委員要求我們給那個報告我們也會同樣的如果委員垂詢我們會好我了解那現在我們剛剛就是講這是一般正常的學生就有這樣的一個環境交際 人際關係不好那我們如果來講到特殊的比較心理狀況不好的這些學生那人際關係又更"},{"start":6787.169,"end":6805.969,"text":"讓我們擔憂對不對那我們知道在學校裡面對這一些譬如說過動兒或者是說自閉症這些的小孩子他們也都有開一些比較特殊的一個課程譬如說所謂的潛能班就是加強課程的一個加強然後還有一些年紀關係的課程那我覺得"},{"start":6808.692,"end":6811.534,"text":"這種年紀關係的課程或是比較不要那麼比較彈性的比較活化的一些課程我覺得應該要增加因為他的年紀關係這種課程一個禮拜只有一堂課那我覺得對於這些比較特殊需要照顧的孩子除了"},{"start":6827.748,"end":6840.127,"text":"就是不要讓他有疏離跟一般的學生不一樣要讓他融合所以我覺得這個課程應該要再增加不要再只有單一的還有他的一個職能的一個"},{"start":6841.38,"end":6863.734,"text":"互建的這個部分委員指的應該是特區課程這部分如果不足我們會跟地方政府來瞭解跟教學縣的瞭解是不是應該可以來多做這些課程的一些備案來推動對這都是家長的一個懷念那剛剛我們也有提到就是說那個"},{"start":6865.856,"end":6873.218,"text":"學生的自殺力很高 我們都很擔心我們剛剛都有提到 這是校園問題 我們的校園不夠友善太多的壓力讓學生沒有辦法發洩所以這個輔導的部分 我覺得我們輔導的機制一定要加強"},{"start":6890.262,"end":6909.188,"text":"我們已經雙管齊下了第一個就是修學生輔導法的時候增加人力增加三級這個處於輔導的一些相關資源然後對於老師在109年也開始推動那個輔導老師的有關老師的輔導智商系統來讓老師的心理也能夠更健康"},{"start":6909.628,"end":6925.348,"text":"那這個推動的結果我們那時候預算也是從六百萬每年補助地方到現在已經到六千萬所以目前的推動的情況只是逐步在推動我們當然都希望學校裡面的老師學生心理都能夠健康遇到問題都能夠正向思考"},{"start":6926.008,"end":6933.811,"text":"對 我們也希望我們的社會能夠讓學生讓我們的孩子能夠快樂學習所以我在這裡要求就是提升輔導人力進行專業的一個分立提升專業的一個輔導老師的編制然後應應學生優利的比例"},{"start":6945.394,"end":6952.497,"text":"這個提高的一個狀況我們同時呢也希望學生一旦涉及到毒品或是幫派或是詐騙等這些新聞呢都應該要有一個輔導的一個老師跟社工來進行這樣的一個協助對對對那為了完善那個校園心理呢健康教育跟服務呢"},{"start":6964.32,"end":6982.67,"text":"北行要求教育部能夠會同相關單位在三個月內提出一個具體的計畫出來那最後請主席再給我20秒最後因為我來自基層那我就是對於營養午餐的一個專環我們家長對於"},{"start":6988.522,"end":6993.646,"text":"學生的一個思安非常的關心那麼我們也希望我們覺得營養法呢已經從兩年了已經談到現在沒有看到驗版那麼我們希望驗版出來的我們能夠盡速配合115年度的一個營養午餐 免費營養午餐同時來進行有一個標準的一個"},{"start":7011.432,"end":7025.722,"text":"機制那這個審查已經在立法院已經在我們教文會好那我們希望就是我們要看到院版我們有建議版也是院版的草案院版的草案就是我們把它用建議版的方式來跟大家討論"},{"start":7026.482,"end":7050.328,"text":"好 那我們希望這個營養午餐的最後議題錄我們共同來努力我也跟委員報告 其實午餐專法還沒有訂我們現在還沒有訂嘛 之前就是透過學校衛生法訂23條對 當然我們也希望燕板這邊也趕快有可以讓我們來做一個參考我們已經提出建議板了 但還沒提我們為了要因應我們教文會我們召委的排案 我們審查 我們也有建議板"},{"start":7051.068,"end":7074.387,"text":"那已經討論了幾個條文那也一併提供給我們的辦公室好 以上謝謝好 謝謝好 謝謝我們蔡市長委員的發言議員不用擔心我們後面會排審也很感謝次長的配合謝謝教育部我們下一位發言的委員是林益勤委員"},{"start":7080.47,"end":7083.112,"text":"謝主席 有請張亮次長好 有請次長委員好次長好前幾年底我們通過了這個學生輔導法的修正那進一步來確認健全了學生的輔導工作那本席看了教育部的書面報告教育部是說你們已經在學生輔導法第13條規範學校因依這個課程的綱要來安排這個輔導相關課程跟活動"},{"start":7110.106,"end":7131.28,"text":"那也要由該科的專任教師或輔導教師來授課提供各級學校具以推動學生心理健康教育及三級輔導相關的工作可是我們今天談的學校衛生法在本期的提案中有加入心理健康促進與基本智能教育這個部分"},{"start":7132.2,"end":7150.54,"text":"本席首先要跟教育部也要跟社會大眾釐清的是心理健康的促進以及破除對心理疾病的汙名我覺得也是學校教育很重要的一環因此在16條健康相關課程的開設中本席認為"},{"start":7152.182,"end":7180.461,"text":"除了既有的這個食農教育以外這個心理健康的促進於基本知能健康基本知能的教育我覺得應該要明文納入所以本席是要特別強調說所謂的這個知能教育就是沒有生命的學子他不能對有疾病有汙名的眼光所以我們期待說透過這樣的教育方式對心理健康有更深刻的認識"},{"start":7182.943,"end":7206.26,"text":"市长不晓得你还记不记得在2021年这个公共政策网络参与平台出现了一份让这个社会瞩目的提案这个提案的就是一名高中生他内容是国民中学健康与体育课课纲应该分出精神心理疾病教育的学习单元那时候复义人数很多让这个提案有通过教育部那时候也有做出回应"},{"start":7207.06,"end":7224.616,"text":"那當時的這個提案人說明 之所以他會倡議這個課綱要納入心理教育讓學生有機會認識情緒 或者知道如何自我覺察和壓力的調解那未來才有足夠知識來要求這個專業的協助才不會因為社會的異樣眼光來選擇獨自來承受這個情緒的這個壓力"},{"start":7231.983,"end":7246.895,"text":"那所謂的社會的異樣眼光也是我們就要極力去消除破除對疾病的汙名來增加說對這個精神疾患跟精神關能症他們的認識所以本席雖然我覺得學生"},{"start":7247.855,"end":7271.981,"text":"輔導法有規範這個相關教育辦理的事項可是在心理衛生這個部分我覺得是需要普羅大眾他們有基本跟消除對精神疾病汙名化的認知那我說那麼多我想請教次長是說作為我們教育主管的這個機關我們是不是應該要推行相關的教育而把它明確入法"},{"start":7272.561,"end":7300.027,"text":"對 我想謝謝委員的關心喔其實在12年國教課綱裡面的健康與體育的領域裡面其實是各教育階段都已經系統性的含過了包括飲食營養啦 規律運動啦問題關心的心理健康啦再到自我健康管理等核心的內容每個教育階段都有那麼委員的關心就是說那既然有的話有沒有落實我覺得我們現在是落實面啦就是說我們給予的相關的這個課綱推動的資源足不足"},{"start":7300.527,"end":7319.833,"text":"把相關的師資夠不夠專業老師的本身有沒有在隨著社會的氛圍變化他能夠把自我增能來有足夠的專業知識來輔導學生我覺得這個是比較重要的細節的補充我們再請署長再來提一下各階段的有沒有好"},{"start":7320.916,"end":7347.632,"text":"委員我們從小一到高中有五大學習階段小學有三個學習階段您剛才提到那個國中第四學習階段高中也有這12年五個學習階段都有他的要求的學習內容在心理健康方面委員剛才所提的在必修課程這12年都有可是委員會想到與時俱進這類剛才次長有回應透過老師的進修"},{"start":7348.653,"end":7363.041,"text":"教材的研發或相關我們學群科中心或輔導團我們會強化委員的提醒了解因為我很清楚就是你們其實持續有將心理健康納入國教署那個健康與體育這個領域還有中央輔導團的這個年度計畫各方推動的課程對可是"},{"start":7369.224,"end":7395.719,"text":"多次長你還是立委的時候其實曾質詢過潘文忠部長就是學生身心調適價對不對那這個目前其實在大學跟高中都已經落實了嘛那這個層面更廣這個心理教育心理健康教育之能的這個心理知能教育我覺得本席的法條他說明的提到是認識疾病跟自我覺察跟學會求助甚至讓"},{"start":7396.559,"end":7415.685,"text":"我剛重點想到沒有生病的孩子更認識心理衛生的議題所以你覺得要怎麼樣把這個健康教育更落實在各級學校中那如果把它明確入法那會讓各級教育單位的遵守會更加有強制力"},{"start":7416.846,"end":7432.726,"text":"我們那個將來主條討論的時候其實可以來進一步的來談就是說要入法的部分會不會跟原理來其實我們現在都有在做那如果是在學校衛生法裡面要入法那入法的部分是要強化哪一部分會不會跟其他的法令"},{"start":7433.447,"end":7451.463,"text":"已經有規範的會不會互相焊隔這可以討論我們基本上採比較開放的態度就是說因為學生輔導法也規範的蠻多的它裡面也在細則裡面也有有些版本裡面其實在那個細則裡面可以修也可以那是不是一定要入法這真的是可以討論"},{"start":7452.304,"end":7476.021,"text":"好 那另外今天很多同仁關心的就是所謂的這個消擬月經貧窮這個議題基於上一屆這個本席跟很多的同仁就開始倡議那教育部就開始實施了這個友善提供多元生理用品的計畫不過現在實施將近三年公民團體有一些指出的部分就是說部分學校還是有這個生理用品這個不夠"},{"start":7478.863,"end":7490.789,"text":"取用不便啦 還是說宣導不足或品相太單一 這些問題還有就是說有些學生要向老師請生理假 有被刁難的狀況所以我覺得為了精進這項政策"},{"start":7493.851,"end":7522.005,"text":"那本席那時候就有寫過預算提案所以要求就要不改善那這次我們這個學校衛生法來修法我覺得是不是本席的版本也有把這個各級主管機關應協助各級學校備制多元生理用品還有加強這個學校園中的月經教育相關的文字寫進來就是有相關的明確的這個法源依據那針對現行的這個多元生理用品的政策"},{"start":7522.785,"end":7537.891,"text":"不曉得教育部有沒有盤點現在各級學校的實施狀況哪個教育階段的學校比較需要加強或者對於我們怎麼樣增加可敬性教育部有什麼明確的改善措施"},{"start":7543.616,"end":7561.886,"text":"其實跟公民團體溝通的部分這兩年我們都持續跟他們溝通所以他們提出很多寶貴的建議包括剛剛委員有提到說很多學生不知道所以我們在115年修正我們的參考指引之後我們在上面有明確規範說學校應該要上網公告學校那個學校放置多元生理用品的一個一點的一個地圖"},{"start":7562.446,"end":7580.675,"text":"是那這樣可以增進那個學生知悉的一個權利那另外我們也要求學校提供多元的生理用品衛生棉是一定要那其他的包括說像月經杯等等我們希望學校也要提供那另外也要有設置專責的管理人透過這樣多元的一個制度然後來協助學校落實這樣的一個政策"},{"start":7581.195,"end":7596.642,"text":"那哪個階段你們目前盤點哪個教育階段的學生學校比較需要加強你們盤點起來這個部分可能有點難用單一的標準去判斷說是哪一個階段的學校比較需要加強比如說像大學的部分因為大學他們"},{"start":7597.862,"end":7620.738,"text":"大學的學校很大所以他們可能有很多的建築物那學生可能會覺得說我不是在每一個建築物我都可以收取到這樣的一個一個用品但是其實在大學裡面他可能實際上已經提供了很多只是說他建築物很多那以至於沒有辦法每個都可以提供那目前我們調查大學大概每個學校大概有8.6處的地方平均會有提供這樣的一個多元生理用品的"},{"start":7621.338,"end":7642.83,"text":"的一個措施這樣子那另外就是說現階段我們有針對不利處境的學生有提供這個取用的管道嘛那我想要關注的是說我們要怎麼樣確保這個領取機制下會變成另外一種形式的貧窮標籤來保障就是我們要怎麼樣保障學生的平等受教權跟他的身心健康"},{"start":7645.806,"end":7674.057,"text":"主席報告其實我們多元生理用品的取用有分兩種一種是定點緊急的取用他可能忘記帶那另外一種是不利學生我們可以幫助他但是我們需要就是希望可以去標籤化所以這個部分我們是免除說不要有登記制這樣子的一個行為那另外針對比如說像大學的部分我們會納在生活助學金裡面那針對生活助學金我們目前正在演繹看針對是只要是有領取生活助學金的女性的大學生"},{"start":7674.457,"end":7696.092,"text":"我們就是在增加相關的經費給他可以再去購置這樣的一個產品那也不會說讓其他人知道這樣子好 那一併要提到是說因為現行有規定學生可以請生理假可是實務上常發現第一線教師他要求學生要提出相關的證明或要列入病假扣分等等的狀況那當然這樣的做法當然是覺得非常不妥那也會貼上好像這個月經來可能作假的負面標籤"},{"start":7702.497,"end":7716.916,"text":"當然我覺得這是反映部分師生對於閱經知識的不足啦所以我想這個教育部我們這幾年辦相關的研習那我們對教職人員其實有一些相關知識的這個授予可是我覺得不"},{"start":7717.196,"end":7732.6,"text":"不該只是說這個月經教育的相關的業務的人而已像說他的處事的組長啦或者是這個領域的教師我覺得是不是針對每一位教職人員都應該具備這樣充分的知能我們才能對於這個月經教育有精進的作為委員的見解非常正確我們會朝這個方向來推動OK 好 謝謝次長 謝謝主席"},{"start":7747.37,"end":7751.378,"text":"謝謝我們林議警委員的質詢那我們現在休息五分鐘"},{"start":8140.469,"end":8156.476,"text":"好現在繼續開會請吳麗瓦委員進行詢答謝謝謝謝主席有請教育部次長好有請次長"},{"start":8160.985,"end":8186.028,"text":"委員好次長好昨天我們有看到親子天下他有做一個教師幸福感的調查其中他是透過回收的5412份問卷然後公布一個數據就是現在老師他的幸福感只有50分"},{"start":8188.83,"end":8200.834,"text":"並且有將近六成的老師他們表達五年內就想要離開教職更嚴重的是我們看到95.3%的老師他承認教職的工作帶給他壓力"},{"start":8206.696,"end":8227.66,"text":"那分析他的类别呢其中学生的行为带给老师的困扰压力占了78%那关心就是家长投诉或者是非理性要求的他的压力源也达到55%那特别讲这个部分是因为今天"},{"start":8228.08,"end":8251.293,"text":"我們是來討論學校衛生法那我們也都知道過去的學校衛生法比較偏重如果我們講身心健康比較重視生理的定義的健康所以這一次修法我們也很關心是不是應該把心理健康這個部分把它再更強調明確出來我這邊是想要先請教一下"},{"start":8256.696,"end":8281.137,"text":"因為之前我有特別在8月7號的質詢有去提到因為校事會議造成教師的壓力很大所以第一線的老師他們普遍有去反映說他們需要一些心理的支持所以在我們高級中等以下學校的教師諮商輔導的一個辦法"},{"start":8283.519,"end":8306.193,"text":"他有做一個支持中心的設置要點那其中有提到就是教師支持中心會提供老師個別的資商輔導每個人每年六次為限那第一層第一線的老師是希望說能不能提高一點到一年八次但是這個部分"},{"start":8306.753,"end":8330.436,"text":"我目前還沒有得到書面的回應所以想要趁這個機會來問一下目前的進度如何謝謝委員的關心的確就是我們在經過專業人員評估及教師支持中心認定是可以增加到8次好所以確定可以增加那已經公布了嗎這個修改修正的要點要點已經公布了"},{"start":8331.744,"end":8359.62,"text":"我們的要點設置中心的要點就有寫就是可以提升到八次那再來請教一下老師也很關心為什麼呢因為其實在原偏鄉更多的是代理代課兼任或者是教學資源人員可是呢在我們的這個辦法的說明裡面他說考量兼任代課協同教學教學資源等"},{"start":8360.68,"end":8380.644,"text":"教学人员在学校的时间比较短所以呢没有把他们包含进去所以这个部分我在8月的质询有提到能不能去涵盖这些兼任待课教学资源老师我们有在进行评估啦是不是有在进行评估这个"},{"start":8383.147,"end":8403.949,"text":"這部分我想兼任代課教學資源我這樣講好了市長我待過偏鄉學校有時候學校幾乎八成都是代課然後學校的教學資源人員你明白嗎連教族語都是教學資源人員他們待在學校的時間也非常的長"},{"start":8404.329,"end":8416.857,"text":"若是任期比較穩定的代理教師那個應該都有啦那你講的這個兼任代課是不是他們不能享用這些資源嗎他是不是不是固定的他只是一個不定時的我請署長來回答好 謝謝署長謝謝委員提醒"},{"start":8420.059,"end":8440.86,"text":"這個如果他不是單次性例如說他在某一次代理代課某個課程而已他是全學期的那麼他基本上都已經是學校一個很重要的議員的時候基本上他要能夠來幫忙是沒有問題的那如果有哪一個個案或是哪一個法條沒有寫清楚我們再來改善"},{"start":8441.92,"end":8457.39,"text":"好 謝謝所以基本上通過要點就可以來韓國我想這個教育的部分應該是不需要去拒絕任何一個關係這個實施之後其實地方現場迴響非常大現在幾乎都已經補助經費都提高是 大家都覺得"},{"start":8458.03,"end":8480.804,"text":"有那個需求這個個別諮商輔導其實連老師代課老師都需要現在老師的壓力真的比較大好 謝謝次長那其實兒福聯盟在去年有做一個2025年台灣青少年心理健康的調查報告那這個結果數據非常的有趣找同學或朋友"},{"start":8481.795,"end":8508.675,"text":"我觉得有困扰的时候寻求同学和朋友这个我们其实不意外44.6%那找父母33%然后不跟人谈就恐怖了有17%的孩子是心里有困扰的时候不想跟人谈然后再来一个就是15.2%的孩子是已经习惯跟生成式AI聊天了"},{"start":8509.836,"end":8526.157,"text":"那我們也看到國外已經有案例出來了他們用這些AI聊天機器會引導到自殺自傷的行為那再一個部分就是只有11.8也就是只有一成的孩子他願意跟學校輔導老師談"},{"start":8528.52,"end":8547.694,"text":"那非輔導的老師是百分之也是一成所以我覺得這樣的一個數據包括學校有新輔老師才不到一成才6.4%所以這個部分其實很值得我們去看重所以在這一次的這個學校衛生法的修法我希望"},{"start":8548.334,"end":8562.615,"text":"就是很多委員的版本都很重視把心理健康這個部分來引入次長您的看法如何我們會在主條討論跟大家一起來討論基本上應該是很支持我們是吃開放態度"},{"start":8563.336,"end":8577.485,"text":"好謝謝那另外一個部分就是我們這次也有討論到蠻多委員有反本就是關於多元生理用品的一個引入那我自己呢其實也在三年前2023年的2月"},{"start":8580.047,"end":8603.396,"text":"有跟很多的委員跟民間團體小紅帽就是一起來做倡議的記者會也非常謝謝教育部很快速的回應就是不到半年也就是在112年學年度開始就有一個友善提供多元生理用品計畫的一個實施那這個部分現在我們也已經實施三年了啦"},{"start":8604.016,"end":8622.125,"text":"所以呢我們來看一下齁其實這個部分有一個部分我們要注意因為在我們這個年級五六年級生我們那時候是一直到國中的健康教育才出現這個第十四章第十五章才出現這些性教育青春期的一個教育"},{"start":8622.945,"end":8639.13,"text":"那時候老師也不太敢教可是時至今日我們這個部分已經在國小就已經開始教不過去年台灣性別平等教育協會跟兒福聯盟有做一個調查竟然發現"},{"start":8640.971,"end":8657.053,"text":"超過六成的孩子呢他對所謂的月經不太認識而且他們孩童的性知識平均只有53分也就是不及格啦所以在這裡我們雖然已經在三年前"},{"start":8658.134,"end":8679.989,"text":"開始在校園提供這個多元生理用品是基於我們要正視月經貧窮的問題希望校校有衛生棉希望提供多元生理用品希望讓每一個孩子不要因為買不起衛生棉造成他的健康問題或者他的心理問題所以在這裡呢我們有看到"},{"start":8680.689,"end":8696.06,"text":"小紅帽他們有一個月經友善地圖那他們整理出來這幾年實施的狀況他們有發現集中在西北部比較多那東部原鄉的資源是相對稀少當然我們認為"},{"start":8698.062,"end":8718.661,"text":"這個月經貧窮也不是最重要的而是女性比男性在這一生因為生理的因素必須要去負擔這樣的經費我們也不主張排富應該是所有女性有需要都應該要來提供那但是呢我們看到這樣的一個發放情形那我不經"},{"start":8719.482,"end":8740.789,"text":"就是想要關心一下原鄉地區因為我們教育部從112年8月1號開始從113有固定編列預算是兩億五千萬那他實施的方式也很多元因為各個縣市都不同那我這邊比較想要了解就是針對原住民地區因為他"},{"start":8741.269,"end":8764.452,"text":"比較沒有其他可以地方購得像是這些所謂的7-11或者是這些比較容易買到的點所以針對原住民地區的學校這些生理用品它的存放它的領取它的補給我不曉得教育部有沒有做過了解我想報告委員就是有關偏鄉我們是採取彈性工藝的措施對"},{"start":8765.012,"end":8779.828,"text":"如果針對偏鄉地區它的商業通路不足所以我們可以依學生的實際需求是由學校統一來採購發放實體的用品所以你會發現那個地圖少但事實上是由學校我們的方式是因地制宜由學校統一採購統一發放"},{"start":8781.449,"end":8796.025,"text":"那因為我這邊也想要了解德資學校的一個發放狀況還有哪一些學校是負責發放再提供一份書面資料給我那這一次我們都很多委員都有針對這個部分希望"},{"start":8796.866,"end":8821.946,"text":"教育部已经实施三年那我们把它正式的来修进我们的学生卫生法里面那也希望我们教育部的态度是支持的那在这边次长没有问题吧我们方向都一致好谢谢那也谢谢主席好谢谢我们吴丽华委员我们下一位质询的委员是吴思耀委员"},{"start":8827.881,"end":8831.122,"text":"今天學校衛生法來進入我們修法的詢答我今天會扣合這三大主題下一頁"},{"start":8852.239,"end":8873.433,"text":"我整理出來目前的20幾個版本當中27個版本當中聚焦在青少年的心理健康那我個人的看法是學校輔導學生輔導法已經大幅的修正了那我們這一次在學校衛生法的修正一定要注意不要跌床架屋不要造成法律之間競合的問題"},{"start":8875.094,"end":8890.07,"text":"第二个呢友善提供校园的多元生理用品其实是现在的政策进行式也就是政策先行那是不是要用入法的方式还是说现行去优化行政命令会更直接更有效"},{"start":8890.911,"end":8911.574,"text":"第三個學校午餐來禁用已行受體素的修正案呢現在的營養午餐專法也在審查我同樣的提醒就是修法要避免法律的禁核避免跌床架屋更重要的是不要掛一漏萬這是我對於這些版本的一些中整的看法下一頁"},{"start":8912.795,"end":8930.685,"text":"張亮委員其實張亮次長您過去身為張亮委員您感同身受在上一屆我們都曾經在教育文化委員會因為一些錯假的訊息造成了我們都深受其害也就是有人過當的在釋放錯誤的訊息說我們會讓萊豬進校園"},{"start":8937.088,"end":8944.296,"text":"然後瘦肉精會禁校園然後民進黨這些立委就是餵孩子吃毒的大壞蛋"},{"start":8945.393,"end":8948.616,"text":"所以核心的议题就是次长校园有没有来猪"},{"start":8968.877,"end":8985.795,"text":"校園有沒有進口豬學生吃得到進口豬嗎第三個這一次的新生事務就是對美談判的關稅有沒有改變了現行的校園公餐現況您簡單回答我想實施就是我們的政策開放"},{"start":8986.255,"end":9014.481,"text":"所謂的這個符合國際標準的豬肉進口之後到目前為止大家擔心萊豬沒有一口學生我想沒有吃到一口在校園裡面吃到一口也沒有校園一律採用國產食材所以也沒有那對美關稅談判也是因為這樣很順利所以並沒有因為這樣子造成關稅談判的阻礙那也沒有因為關稅剛才有委員提到說好像我們對這部分有讓步所以呢會改變校園公餐的現況也沒有"},{"start":9014.861,"end":9034.643,"text":"事實上我們現在是用共同契約我知道我們來一項一項驗證謝謝次長下一頁我們就一項一項來談對美關稅的談判我們堅守國人健康所以在校園午餐的部分禁用基改的食品依舊是禁用基改食品沒有改變是的"},{"start":9035.143,"end":9050.945,"text":"第二個校園的午餐仍然是採購國產的豬肉國產的肉品也是不變這一次對美談判在牛豬議題的四大立場就是敏感品項的禁令不變"},{"start":9051.886,"end":9072.864,"text":"原產地的標示不變食安管理的機制不變在校園採購國產的食材不變所以說大家不用擔心該把關的談判團隊守住了而我們教育部門尤其我相信不分黨派的立委在教育文化委員會"},{"start":9073.444,"end":9100.326,"text":"也都会持续的来加盐加深的控管校园食材管理的机制大家安心下一页那事实胜于雄辩这都是我们过去努力出来的包括张亮还是委员的时候包括彭署长过去就是我们一起来破坏这些仪表板来揭露所有的猪肉食材公开透明"},{"start":9101.57,"end":9117.791,"text":"左邊是衛福部食藥署的豬肉儀表版今年我統計到昨天的數字今年全年沒有驗出任何一批含有萊克多巴胺含萊劑的豬肉來食藥署是不是如此"},{"start":9121.414,"end":9141.61,"text":"沒有就是沒有而且公開透明大家一起來監督而我們學習了衛福部的這個儀表板教育部那時候我記得是我逼著這個彭署長來做所以教育部也跟進了進行一個校園豬肉儀表板這也是統計到昨天"},{"start":9142.691,"end":9166.549,"text":"台湾猪百分之百进口猪零所以孩子在校园吃的每一口肉每一口食材百分之百是台湾原产大家可以安心下一页为什么可以做到这个我真的谢谢张亮次长谢谢彭署长当时的一起推动因为我们政策上给萝卜也给棍子"},{"start":9167.951,"end":9174.236,"text":"給蘿蔔就是提高食材的補助現在過去從每餐補助一個孩子3.5塊現在是到10塊了嗎"},{"start":9178.191,"end":9194.065,"text":"10塊現在回歸到地方偏鄉是14元好這是在才化法修正之前中央已經做到的水平有蘿蔔所以學校有了補助就可以去A更多的誘因去買100%的MIT的食材否則他拿不到這個補助嘛"},{"start":9198.749,"end":9218.03,"text":"給棍子就是我們全面啟動台灣有史以來校園的食材採購最大規模的契約修改總共3368校我還記得那時候是彭署長到我辦公室我們抱著厚厚的契約一頁一頁看這個要改那個要改就是為了做到滴水不漏"},{"start":9219.011,"end":9243.638,"text":"违规的厂商如果敢有任何一口非MIT的食材他就要终止契约所以说有萝卜有棒子现在的三张EQ张教士长应该很熟悉2019年您站在这个位置的时候您在质询的时候那个时候三张EQ的食材比例的普及率只有55%现在是多少了98.83我们努力"},{"start":9246.659,"end":9263.946,"text":"应该是98.9了已经99了继续努力在下一页我们持续的来盯紧这些作为持续的控管把关进口猪肉基改食品不可能不应该不可以流入校园"},{"start":9265.086,"end":9288.448,"text":"最後下一頁但是修法是我們現在要面對的我要再一次的提醒修法不能差別待遇不應當針對性的修法否則真的是怪異漏腕我在這要請教衛福部目前管制的動物用藥在台灣的管控要管控的有多少"},{"start":9289.434,"end":9314.393,"text":"是 包委員我們有496筆是有定MIL殘留農學量對 所以規範的品項有496筆在動物用藥在食品添加物的管控的品項有多少我們也有800多筆的所以804筆嘛 對不對農藥殘留量或者是免定定殘留量或者是禁用的農藥加起來有多少筆"},{"start":9315.75,"end":9339.235,"text":"報告員大概有8000多筆8236所以A加B加C現有對於食安的管控對於動物用藥的禁令食品添加物的禁令到農藥的禁令APC加起來目前要管控也在管控的有9536項所以這一次修法如果只挑一項以行獸體素一項"},{"start":9341.875,"end":9363.935,"text":"那么不就挂一漏万了吗更重要的是没有造成挂一漏万跌床加屋的修法之前我们政策有没有做到有效控管以行受抵诉已经有了嘛对不对有嘛所以说我再一次我们非常理性的对话9536品项要管制的"},{"start":9364.555,"end":9391.342,"text":"殘留量的各項的食材的安全不能夠也不應該只針對一項乙型受體素更重要的是沒有入法也已經做到不可能讓乙型受體素來流入校園的食材所以我們理性的看待否則我真的很擔心修法掛一漏案選擇性針對性的修法會造成了對於食安的專業管理反而是造成了副作用"},{"start":9392.242,"end":9420.487,"text":"我们是不是在重申这样的立场那今天很遗憾时间有限对于心理健康跟生理用品我们过去努力很多下次有机会再来追寻大家所以我们把正确的讯息告诉大家我们正确的来试读那大家安心该做的校园食材的把关我们只会越做越好越管越严朝野的立委一起来理性监督好谢谢大家祝福一些主席给我时间谢谢"},{"start":9422.21,"end":9442.361,"text":"好謝謝吳世耀委員的發言我們有請下一位委員吳佩儀委員好謝謝主席我請教育部有請次長好謝謝吳委員好"},{"start":9446.374,"end":9449.695,"text":"市長好我們今天是要做學校衛生法這個修法的巡打那在這個提案的版本當中今天我看到蠻多委員都有針對第六條了也就是有關於多元生理用品然後提供月經"},{"start":9463.94,"end":9487.142,"text":"推動月經教育有提案我也有一些相關的議題要跟次長來討論月經平權其實是這幾年來教育部非常認真的在推動我從過去在台北市議會的時候也很感謝教育部因為有全國整體的政策所以各縣市地方政府也都動起來"},{"start":9488.163,"end":9512.568,"text":"那能夠進入到校園當中那我想因為民間的團體也持續在倡議那也協助我們去了解說在第一線到底落實執行的情況如何值得我們滾動式的來檢討持續來改進那麼我們對於月經平權的推動其實主要兩點嘛一個就是我們有補助對不對補助縣市地方政府然後第二個就是我們有訂定指引"},{"start":9513.348,"end":9532.675,"text":"在補助的話我們現在目前我們中央補助地方邊內的預算是多少的金額目前是一億兩億多是不是一共兩億多從大學到高中以下中小學的部分就兩億多大學也差不多兩億多大學是從那個"},{"start":9534.455,"end":9559.88,"text":"生活助學金跟那個深耕計畫裡面在大學的部分公立跟私立的學校我們都讓他我們有高教的深耕計畫那私立的學校的補助計畫是針對這個弱勢的學生他們生活補助金當中讓他們可以來運用那高中以下我們是直接編列是針對地方縣市政府全國22個地方縣市政府我們都每一年來補助經費那這些經費呢"},{"start":9563.101,"end":9579.339,"text":"主要是用到哪裡去呢我先跟委員報告一下中等以下學校的部分它用於定點協助就是它不分身份它急需的時候就可以用另外一個是不立身份的這種的"},{"start":9581.041,"end":9604.504,"text":"每个月200 每个月200这样切 当时委员有建议说 这样切切切可能会把它弹性变小 后来修正成它可以一次领全年那它要买比较适合的 但它可能200买个一次就不够了 或是它要联合采购所以我们把它修成比较弹性 它可以一次领去所以以上两种对象"},{"start":9604.904,"end":9624.259,"text":"那兩種對象其實大家最關心的是不利身份這個都有一個比較完善第三個有接受委員的建議在領取的地點上增加了比較多點大學平均有8.6處在中小學凡是廁所健康中心甚至學生的宿舍我們都給予協助"},{"start":9625.24,"end":9649.3,"text":"也就是說推動月經平權其實生理用品的普及化跟它的這個使用率使用的禁用性其實是重點所以就是剛剛你們所說的其實我們分為兩種方式一種是直接提供就是有身分別的一種是間接提供在公共場所我們提供讓他可以使用到那究竟這個質詢的成效如何我們有沒有來做檢視"},{"start":9652.032,"end":9668.568,"text":"在你們給的資料當中大學裡面你們有直接的數字這個提供率是百分之百然後每一所學校平均8.2處有提供那範圍包括了健康中心、宿舍、廁所、系辦等等但是高中以下你們有沒有調查的數字"},{"start":9671.271,"end":9692.2,"text":"跟委員報告高中以下他會比較用類型化譬如說我們在科長會議那邊去完成這個以全縣市的這樣調查對全國3800校的調查這個恐怕就會比較要更精緻一點或是要更在行政層上因為我們現在的管道多元也就是說這個方式有很多種"},{"start":9693.08,"end":9713.794,"text":"但是它究竟成效如何因為既然我們已經有編列預算在補助了也有相關的指引我認為我們還是要去了解成效才知道如何去檢討那麼民間團體呢這個小紅帽他們有用問卷調查做了一個初步的調查但事實上我認為你們教育部還是要做比較全面的調查因為這個問卷是線上問卷它的這個抽樣還有這個樣本數其實我們政府當官應該可以有更完整的資料但是在這份資料當中這個幾個數字我覺得值得我們注意"},{"start":9725.521,"end":9748.231,"text":"其中有百分之將近是兩成的學生他們說這個生理用品放在哪裡第一個是不清楚其實根本不知道學校有提供這個東西然後在提供的場所有超過一半是健康中心那麼有將近四成表示是在廁所"},{"start":9749.091,"end":9770.272,"text":"那也有在學務處有些是在輔導處所以我想第一個學校到底這個提供的場所它的多元性如何然後呢學生支不到這些資訊我們既然經費編列下去了這個生理用品假設經費有到有買了那就要有用到嘛"},{"start":9771.033,"end":9792.94,"text":"不要說買了放在那邊又變成深灰塵我也是有看過這樣的情況所以第一個我希望教育部能夠來協助地方政府來了解究竟我們執行的成效是怎麼樣那我們希望他在這個實際上面學生是要能夠知道這些資訊然後知道要去哪裡拿到這些生理用品那我們推動這個月經平權才會達到我們所要的這個效果"},{"start":9797.201,"end":9817.975,"text":"這個是在這個給教育部做參考那所以你們今年就是二月也這個指引也訂定的修訂的新的版本所以我想啦就是我們希望這個指引修訂之後他在落實上面可以更加的那個有成效希望你們後續要有這個調查的數字這個次長我們能不能夠"},{"start":9818.655,"end":9841.074,"text":"沒有問題就是我們針對那個民間或公民團體所做的調查我們學務室這邊大概都會去跟他們聯繫那也去了解相關的問題然後來做改善所以他不斷的會修正這個執意最新修正就是在上個月那上個月就是希望說他那個你說不知道在哪邊拿我們就上網公告那剛才有委員提到像武力法委員提到說像偏向地方"},{"start":9841.775,"end":9867.985,"text":"他拿的地方很少那我們邊鄉地方人數不多我們就由學校統一採購對 那上網公告這個學校已經公告了幾成了學校公告了呢我們再請學務室來那這些就是你們要去後續追蹤的好不好大學大概九成都有公告那中小學部分可能要再進一步細緻對 因為目前大學你們比較有掌握嘛但高中以下請你們後續要去追蹤我們很擔心的是指引修訂完了我們還是不知道成效如何這才是我們擔心的"},{"start":9868.945,"end":9882.117,"text":"所以這個要給教育部提醒再來一點是我今天要特別跟市長討論因為在這個之前的審議算的時候我應該是有做過一個提案就是在關心我們那時候在修學生輔導法的時候我們的這個專任輔導教師我們專業的輔導人力我們的這些待遇啊"},{"start":9889.043,"end":9915.563,"text":"當時你們也說其實我們待遇明顯都是低於民間的所以請你們要去參照衛福部的這個社安網的這個待遇來做這個相關的調整我們後面有沒有去提出來事實上在去年的2月17號我們就函報行政院那行政院也召開兩次會議的審查一次書面的審查那他們主要是認為說要避免社會安全網裡面不同領域專業人力會互相比較所以"},{"start":9916.543,"end":9933.255,"text":"未來我們會持續跟行政院來了解我們目前在我們提給行政院的這個方案當中我們是待遇調整會調整多少有一個來請那個因為他在不管是大學兼用碩士兼用或督導他的天花板"},{"start":9933.875,"end":9955.881,"text":"還有地板都有往上調那這樣一條因為連動到社安網內的相關例如保護性社工這類那可能會跨單位要一起協調那大概在四月份還有一次會議那今天有關的一些進程會後會跟各位報告所以現在確實已經有你針對我們少女裡面的輔導人力的待遇提升我們已經有方案了對不對已經有方案"},{"start":9956.381,"end":9980.728,"text":"這個要持續進一步的去趕快來協調我們希望說在學校裡面我們的輔導人力他們本應就要有相關的合理的待遇我們學生才獲得這個輔導的資源才會品質才會好這個要拜託教育部那我們也會來提醒行政院要盡快來這個要把它協調完成委員重視我們再順便給委員了解一下你們附帶決議的部分我們現在實施的狀況好謝謝市長署長謝謝主席"},{"start":9984.807,"end":10007.407,"text":"好 謝謝我們五委員的諮詢我們有請下一位郭玉琴委員好 謝謝主席有請次長有請次長可能署長也一起好了洪署長嗎好 委員好是"},{"start":10009.158,"end":10029.29,"text":"市長早安我想在進入今天的學校衛生法之前我們先來看一下最近有一所貴族私立的幼兒園發生幼教教育的亂象一名任職超過20年的資深老師他其實已經被"},{"start":10030.971,"end":10055.605,"text":"就是指控了這個長期對於這個幼生進行不當的一個管教那根據這個家長的一個描述他的孩子現在是非常害怕去學校那麼同時這個小孩也出現了非常嚴重的一個心理創傷包含這個半夜他會驚醒不斷的道歉那同時甚至會模仿暴力的一個行為這個家長甚至這一位家長是虎爸他甚至說他要在家裡放佛經"},{"start":10056.425,"end":10072.694,"text":"才能夠平復孩子的情緒當然他寫了非常長的一個文章在這個群組當中去對這個老師做這樣子的一個相對的控訴那為什麼我會提到這間學校因為這一位老師其實我"},{"start":10074.175,"end":10085.885,"text":"當時我的孩子也是在這間幼兒園裡頭的那我們先來看一下這個短短的影片那請兩位來告訴我我們應該怎麼辦來處理這樣子一個現象有聲音嗎可以把聲音打開嗎衛生紙好重喔重不重好多衛生紙好重喔衛生紙好重喔"},{"start":10110.855,"end":10127.931,"text":"好 這個只是其中的一小段那根據這個班上的孩子說這個老師不斷地會用手捏那同時呢也會用言語的咆哮的一個暴力的方式那更離譜的是這一位老師他在113年的3月就曾經因為"},{"start":10129.492,"end":10150.984,"text":"教保服務人員的一個條例對兒童有屬於非重大情節的不當行為的對待被罰款6000元那這位老師長期在班上有一些失控的行為狀態那同時更離譜的是他還有所謂的在群組當中列了他的夢想的清單"},{"start":10153.24,"end":10170.884,"text":"利用這個私立學校的一個這樣子的一個方式他的這些清單包含要有精品保養品名牌的甜點就說這個是老師的願望的清單那最高的金額是單件是高達了5850元"},{"start":10174.105,"end":10199.775,"text":"那我想針對這樣子的一個狀況那吹哨者只說這個原方其實早就已經知道這個老師的劣跡但是卻因為這位老師在學校其實相當的資深也擔心會害怕效益反而會被老師反告採取所謂的消極的一個態度那甚至已經發生了因為通常除了一位導師以外還有另外一位我們的這個教保員"},{"start":10200.575,"end":10219.749,"text":"也會在班上來做輔導對不對通常幼兒園是這樣子的一個狀況那現在也發生了多位協同的這個老師因為壓力過大而離職那甚至針對這樣子的一個知情不報或者延遲通報的校長跟員方請問我們教育部有什麼具體的一個裁罰的手段"},{"start":10220.049,"end":10245.446,"text":"我想這個都有相應的一個處理程序那因為這個個案委員提出來我們會後會就直接跟我們台北市教育局聯繫對於這個案件目前的處理進度如何來回報因為有很多的家長其實就因為自己的孩子在這個班上而這間學校其實強調的是從幼兒園的大班開始為了要直升所以他們可能會隱忍"},{"start":10247.548,"end":10267.627,"text":"這個是這間學校的長期以來的一個狀況因為我的孩子曾經讀過所以其實我非常的清楚那我想不能讓這個貴族學校成為法外之地啊因為孩子的童年就這麼一次那麼幼兒園尤其是大班的孩子其實應該是要非常快樂健康的成長如果在學校的環境當中已經受到了威脅"},{"start":10268.288,"end":10283.466,"text":"恐懼甚至回到家裡還會晚上做噩夢甚至還會模仿暴力的行為甚至一直跟老師說對不起我想這個家長情何以堪按照相關處理程序台北市政府教育局應該都知道了這個是前天的新聞我們會會後會馬上聯繫了解他們怎麼處置再跟我說"},{"start":10286.71,"end":10307.114,"text":"好那接下來其實剛剛講到這個學校的衛生法那我想在第六條其實我也有特別的提案那目前其實在我的第六條當中我希望是明文可以規定就是各級的主管機關應該補助學校設置所謂的多元的生理用品並且免費提供有需求的一個學生取用"},{"start":10307.654,"end":10325.339,"text":"但是根據各大專院校的學生團體性別平等學生倡議連線來跟我們反映以目前所謂的生理用品的補助在某一些大專端他們居然是跟弱勢助學金是綁在一起"},{"start":10325.879,"end":10350.115,"text":"也就是說學校當然我們願意承諾未來要配合這個修法的精神我們要有一些真正確實的一個行政的一個指引那避免這個學校將這個生理用品呢直接要掛鉤說要看成績然後再來要看懲處的助學金那我們怎麼樣來確保就是我們在所謂的這個性別平等"},{"start":10352.636,"end":10363.241,"text":"尤其是针对女性的生理用品的部分我们是能够一致性然后不要有任何的差别待遇如果也因为这样学生必须要有被"},{"start":10364.281,"end":10382.668,"text":"跟這個所謂的這個懲處或者是成績來做連結我想這個部分也不是我們的宗旨啦對我們102年開始進行這個友善提供多元生理用品計畫到現在其實各界還有包括基層的學生學校都有一些反應我們有在做一些滾動性的修正"},{"start":10383.508,"end":10398.08,"text":"那過去在大專院校確實是跟這些助學金綁在一起那未來我們現在規劃是說如果我們分開的話以學生數的會做一些額外的一個附加目前正在擬計畫好 那這個計畫什麼時候可以提供我會再請業務單位來說明一下"},{"start":10399.983,"end":10416.602,"text":"什麼時候可以提供我們大概如果有規劃好我們希望在115學年度開始來執行115學年度就是今年的8月1號8月1號之後好那如果有一些更具體的一個書面的部分再提供給我今天因為時間的關係我後面還有兩題要詢問好謝謝我們都持續優化"},{"start":10420.686,"end":10433.565,"text":"那剛剛其實我們大家都知道我們現在是要進入校園我們要攬財我們要吸引更多的真的有教學的熱忱的老師其實是越來越不容易了那我想課後照顧的終點費"},{"start":10435.828,"end":10461.399,"text":"那老師的一些差別待遇的問題在這裡呢我也還是要提醒我們的教育部這有點像雞生蛋誕生雞的一個問題啦那因為這是在於地方的這個縣市那麼他們對於所謂的這個課後輔導也就是針對每個學校他們可能在招收也就是說留在學校的課後輔導的學生的人數要收費多少來訂定要給老師多少的終點費沒有錯嗎應該是這樣對不對"},{"start":10464.981,"end":10466.484,"text":"欸 再來我請那個署長來說明一下"},{"start":10468.084,"end":10484.435,"text":"跟委員報告兩點這裡面會涉及到跟學生的收費跟他行政支出後和導師可以和那個老師的終點費的關係所以他有兩點一個是收費一個是行政跟那個老師終點費的關係這個因為涉及到家長的收費是不是給我們一點時間所以這個就是我剛剛講的寄生蛋蛋生氣的問題因為它還牽扯到所謂的這個聯動的一個關係所以這個我們要怎麼樣跟縣市政府那"},{"start":10495.422,"end":10515.436,"text":"給你們一點時間不牽涉到家長收費的問題我們大概都在檢討了而且都有一些該給的現在也在算了那有涉及到跟家長收費部分可能各地方政府的態度不太一樣所以我們必須要尊重他們的態度大概可以檢討多久或者是說我們可以盤點多久我們其實好像已經在跟他們談了"},{"start":10517.079,"end":10542.97,"text":"可能要再給我們兩個月因為這比較複雜兩個月的時間談了就發現沒有那麼單純所以還要點時間我懂 因為這個跟地方有關但是其實這個我們還是需要去盤點不然其實有很多的這個課後輔導的老師他們其實也非常的辛苦那造成這個所謂的失智的流動課後輔導也是課程好 我們就持續再處理了好 那今天因為時間關係我後面還有題我們就用書面好 謝謝"},{"start":10544.491,"end":10565.043,"text":"好 謝謝郭玉琴委員的質詢那也再一次提醒我們的教育部剛剛我們的課後照顧的相關學藝的終點費我們也多次質詢也希望能夠加快速度那所有的委員都非常期待再麻煩你們我們有請下一位委員萬美玲委員"},{"start":10573.895,"end":10575.191,"text":"谢谢赵伟有请次长"},{"start":10575.953,"end":10605.136,"text":"有请次长好 谢谢 谢谢委员好 次长学校卫生法第23条从上一届这个您也还在当立委的时候我们就非常热烈的讨论那现在呢我看到了这一条教育部针对23条的报告指出说学校的营养午餐契约范本已经规范优先采购具三张EQ的标章标示食材而且这个食材也必须通过卫福部的乙型受体素这个残留的一个分析"},{"start":10605.896,"end":10628.436,"text":"但是呢我想其實這些都是老話重談了其實在上一件事我們就講過說契約範本其實不具有強制力而且呢明明就知道法律的位階也是更高那教育部為什麼不修法那你看食材有通過衛福部的隱形受體素的殘留分析代表著這件事情也是重要的既然是重要的我們也都認為要做我們有希望這個孩子吃得健康那為什麼"},{"start":10630.117,"end":10654.008,"text":"不把這個法律位階提高上來那就直接把它入法到這個學校違法第23條原因是什麼而且整個早上我都聽您在說還要再討論再研議事實上我們從上一屆已經討論到這一屆了所以我要跟委員講說剛才衛福部的官員剛才是不是也有來其實我們現在有關動物殘留的用藥傳流的有非常多我們有沒有必要一一入法"},{"start":10654.548,"end":10668.342,"text":"那第二個我們在這個炒很久但我們看實際的狀況你說共同契約有沒有強制性當然有強制性怎麼會沒有強制性沒有強制性的話那個廠商就解約了那麼實施用這個共同供應契約2020年底全面翻約5年多到現在"},{"start":10672.527,"end":10697.567,"text":"當然是 實施到現在五年多沒有 校園沒有進入半個那個進口度你應該這樣講啦 就是說這個我們如果能夠把它保障得更嚴密一點第一個為什麼我們不做 這上屆也討論過第二個呢 你講的是說你講的說已經保障 因為我們契約範本在那個地方契約範本也有法律效率對不起喔 我想法律的位階其實要修改不是那麼容易但是如果契約範本是教育部其實想改就可以改講難聽一點"},{"start":10698.888,"end":10717.271,"text":"今天啊賴總統都可以把非核家園的死者主牌說丟就丟了好不用負責任那這個心願範本又有多大效力在裡面呢所以我覺得我們應該去認真思考我們到底什麼壓力從上一屆講的這些壓力到現在沒有所有壓力都可以排除只要是為了孩子好所以呢我希望啊我希望"},{"start":10717.811,"end":10741.245,"text":"我們把學校衛生法這次召委又來排那是不是應該可以我們再想一想該入法就要把它入法那第二個呢我們再看到現行的法條規定當中我們還規範了這個學校膳食應優先採用中央農業主管機關認證的在地優良農產品那教育部的報告也說推動使用三張EQ的推行率已經達到98.83對嗎"},{"start":10743.906,"end":10769.801,"text":"好那這是不是代表我們這個我國在地的農產品是足夠供應給學校的膳食的是那如果是的話為什麼要用因優先而不是直接改成因就好因為法律上我們配合嘛那但是在契約上你配合什麼法律也是大家在修的啊所以今天才跟你談學校衛生法第二十三條啊我們是用契約法我們用契約法我們用契約是一律所以今天我們才說要修法嘛如果也照您剛剛所說的說這個時間我們供應的也是足夠的話是相當多"},{"start":10773.243,"end":10792.561,"text":"那我們其實在沒有 上一屆到這一屆在講的都是這樣但我們明明知道啊萊克多巴胺其實在現在是我們其實最擔心的部分嘛那我們針對萊克多巴胺進到校園去讓我們學生有可能受害的任何一點空間我們都不要年來沒有一個孩子"},{"start":10793.141,"end":10816.495,"text":"所以這個從上屆討論到現在 既然我們都覺得說我就問你一點啦 學校的學生我們會願意讓他吃到萊克多巴胺的豬或牛嗎 會不會五年前就開始吵這個議題 五年來有沒有 你回答我會不會嘛當然依照現行的公共公約是沒有的按到現在沒有不代表以後沒有 我們希望持續沒有嘛所以呢 為什麼把它入法這麼困難呢"},{"start":10817.876,"end":10833.214,"text":"拉到法律的位階共同達到我們共同要的目標這不好嗎所以我想 次長我想這不是思考這是一個正確的方向我們對孩子任何一個政策就是要往正確的方向走所以我希望次長在這件事情上面能夠跟新的部長我們再來討論一下"},{"start":10834.355,"end":10847.003,"text":"那接下來我想很快速的再討論一個問題我們看到市長台灣兒童跟青少年自殺通報率持續攀升看一下這張表我是嚇了一大跳我們的表格這個數字對嗎對我們放這張表格嗎好"},{"start":10855.66,"end":10881.881,"text":"我們看一下現在這張表格市長我看到這張表格真的嚇一大跳你看從108年我們自殺通報的人次3390到112年判勝到7246這是多麼可怕的一個數字在校園裡面通報而且通報數字的分析其實有絕大多數的通報單位是學校少部分是警校這是我看了其實身為一個母親我覺得真的非常非常的可怕"},{"start":10882.381,"end":10903.61,"text":"校園裡面的壓力是大到這樣嗎那當然我不要去做個聯想108開始統計108課綱上路那一直到112年我們現在自殺通報的人士到這麼多那麼又根據俄福聯盟在去年發表一份2025台灣青少年心理健康調查還發現有四成的青少年曾經遭遇心理這個健康"},{"start":10904.13,"end":10925.123,"text":"困擾的時候他是選擇不告訴任何人的那當然另外還有一個就是兒福聯盟又講了他說我們看到我們有兩成的國中生是重度學習疲勞思效更嚴重所以我想今天看到這個數字值得我們除了震驚之外要去想一想不要說七二四六次"},{"start":10925.683,"end":10950.632,"text":"七千兩百四十六次一次我都不能接受一次都讓我們覺得非常心痛所以從這上面這個數字要去看到底跟108課剛到112這幾年當中的學生的壓力我覺得要去看一看第二個呢我們學校的輔導系統到底有沒有發揮很好的作用我們又要教育部要給學校的輔導系統跟輔導老師什麼樣的支持那今天時間非常有限所以我希望會後市長能不能夠第一個就這個"},{"start":10951.732,"end":10953.493,"text":"好 我們謝謝萬美玲委員歡迎回娘家一直都在"},{"start":10978.476,"end":10988.445,"text":"我們先邀請下一位張雅琳委員質詢謝謝謝謝主席我們有請次長有請次長"},{"start":10991.79,"end":11011.084,"text":"委員好市長好其實在昨天的院會質詢的時候我有針對校園老舊廁所的改善計畫上面跟部長做了一些討論昨天部長是說他們會去做一些相關的研究特別是說對於學生還有教職員他們對於學校的一些改善的建設上面他們的需求到底是什麼樣子"},{"start":11011.864,"end":11031.023,"text":"因为这个其实是日本有相当多的一些研究调查了解大家其实非常在意厕所的环境那我们也非常感谢教育部这几年其实也在114年颁定了一个老旧厕所的修缮计划然后呢我也发现到就是说我们在二月的时候呢教育部也和台湾设计研究愿意"},{"start":11031.844,"end":11053.533,"text":"推出了一個台灣校園公廁的設計準則但是我發現我們對於蹲室廁所和坐室廁所沒有一個具體的方向然後我們的實施策略上面也只有提到就是說我們有一些標準但是我的補助案如果沒有符合沒有往這個學校廁所的設計準則來執行的話我們會不補助嗎"},{"start":11058.666,"end":11074.332,"text":"我們之前都會有審查機制所以你說蹲室跟廁所會不會補助應該是說兩個部分就是說第一個是這個手冊如果我們這個手冊學校只是參考用它並沒有針對這個內容上面去做一些調整的話我們是不是還是會補助給他們"},{"start":11076.65,"end":11105.071,"text":"我們基本上會有一個審查的過程我們是不是 那細節我們請沒有關係 我只是想要了解就是說這個手冊的內容設計準則有一定要執行我們才會補助嗎準則只是一個參考參考嘛 對不對好 這只是一個參考嘛所以這邊有一個問題就是說如果我們推出一個這樣的設計的準則可是只是參考用的話那就沒有辦法實際的用這個準則來改善我們的學校環境嘛那第二個就是在這個設計準則上面蹲室廁所和坐室廁所也沒有一個具體方向"},{"start":11105.811,"end":11123.265,"text":"那我想要接著下一個問題就是說我自己去了日本做一個考察那其實在內閣官房在2030年已經有目標是避難所的的洋廁所要100%而他們在很多的避難所其實都是學校跟台灣其實是一模一樣的"},{"start":11123.885,"end":11146.281,"text":"那他們這一些調查為什麼呢是因為他們發現避難所有非常多的長輩那這些長輩其實非常需要這個坐室的廁所因為蹲室對他們來說非常的不方便那他們其實也做了非常多的研究發現其實蹲室廁所對於小孩的骨骼發展也不好所以呢我現在目前我是沒有在台灣看到一些相關的研究啦但是我也可以看到就是文部省他其實在做一些"},{"start":11147.782,"end":11157.535,"text":"改革的時候大家可以看到這個廁所我拿這個照片回去問我小孩說你喜不喜歡這樣的廁所他也是非常喜歡的我想大家看到這樣的廁所都會非常的喜歡會非常的舒適"},{"start":11159.44,"end":11181.188,"text":"所以呢我想要請教因為文部省在提供一些相關的補助的時候有特別強調如果你要做事的話他會補助30%如果你改善無障礙廁所50%那我們現在已經提出了這樣子的一個第一個我覺得校園公共廁所的校園廁所的改善這個手冊可能也還有一些調整的空間啦那再來就是說修繕"},{"start":11182.068,"end":11191.942,"text":"怎麼樣子配合這個手冊的推出來改善我們的環境我覺得這也是非常重要的所以我想了解一下這個改善的這個配合對齊這個設計準則這是不是可以調整的呢"},{"start":11194.427,"end":11212.745,"text":"我們會來收集意見來做調整因為我想不然我們才有辦法持續的往這個方向前進那這大概什麼時候我們可以有一個進度呢可以來了解說我們接下來因為今年可能已經有一些廁所已經來了已經來了移民也核定了但是我們還有我們應該還有一些還沒有因為到116年對不對那這個 對"},{"start":11215.949,"end":11229.608,"text":"委員所知道的前一批在去年8月4號已經公布了最近一批還是會公布公布前委員剛剛講的一些提醒我們會跟地方政府一起來處理這一批的那這一批我們先會後下班前把那個期程跟委員報告好"},{"start":11230.629,"end":11254.106,"text":"那因为我觉得这个其实是要搭配着像文部省这样子的做法我觉得才能够真正的改善那抱歉主席我再借一点时间就是要讲延续刚刚前一个万委员提到的那个问题就是我们的儿少身心压力真的非常非常的大不仅是儿福联盟今年有提出了我们有五成七的孩子其实都是重重度的学习疲劳那更重要的是我们还有非常多在我们过去的CRC的国际审查来说"},{"start":11254.887,"end":11269.697,"text":"我們這一題一直是常常被提出來討論的重點那去年呢其實也有一個學生的提案是他們希望可以縮減他們的上課時間然後呢有一萬兩千六百多人去回覆去複譯"},{"start":11270.658,"end":11293.275,"text":"可是我看到了教育部的回應 坦白說我不是很能接受例如說我們幾乎都是不採納不管是上課時間調整 社會改善他們的學生作息還有改善他們的睡眠與壓力 我們只有部分認同我覺得我們的回應都沒有真正回應到學生的困境"},{"start":11293.915,"end":11313.748,"text":"如果说我们可以看不管是排球少年或是过去我们那个年代的灌篮高手我们都非常清楚的知道日本在三点以后都是在发展社团的活动然后芬兰也是澳洲也是大家都有充足的下课时间在今年的国际审查的民间讨论已经有学生自己说我觉得我都没有休息时间了"},{"start":11314.924,"end":11326.646,"text":"我覺得這件事情我們應該是要來積極回應首先我先問一個第一個最簡單的問題我們現在的休息時間到底夠不夠我們是不是有從兒少的身心發展來看夠不夠下課十分鐘"},{"start":11329.439,"end":11356.344,"text":"其實這個當然都可以有彈性啦不過我想那個國教因為我們地方知識權限在縣市政府啦我們也其實像這個提案我們也是跟地方縣市政府討論過那他們打岔那個部分也不是教育部的立場應該是多數地方政府的對 但是我想喔如果我們都一直在用都是地方政府的權限的話我們就沒有一個引導性像芬蘭的下課時間就是15分鐘啊我去澳洲他說他們下課時間30分鐘我們中央是不是有個更更積極的引導這個可以來討論啦"},{"start":11358.524,"end":11377.205,"text":"接著我們來討論好不好因為我覺得這已經是從2022年應該是2018年 對不起2018年到現在已經是非常久的學生一直面臨這樣子的困境我覺得我們必須從兒少的角度從他們身心發展的角度來去思考整個課程的設計跟時間上面的安排 謝謝"},{"start":11378.686,"end":11396.135,"text":"這可以討論 我們會未來討論好 那我也希望可以有個研究案啦針對我們的休息時間是否充足應該怎樣才是恰當的一個研究案 可以嗎可以 沒有問題好 謝謝主席 謝謝好 我們謝謝張愛玲委員的質詢也歡迎張愛玲委員回娘家 謝謝"},{"start":11398.444,"end":11417.89,"text":"那不好意思因為剛剛他提的那個研究我覺得蠻有意義的也希望能夠近期研究來完成以後給我們教文委員會的委員也各一份好是不是那再麻煩次長剛剛有答應喔那我們下一位邀請的是我們洪孟楷委員"},{"start":11424.471,"end":11454.131,"text":"主席謝謝,麻煩請張廖次長好,有請次長好,謝謝委員好好,次長好,次長Follow剛剛張雅琳委員的議題喔我其實也很關心我們的公共衛生廁所的一個狀況那其中日本的外部省這邊我也有去做了解喔它確實他們有做一個研究調查因為為什麼?因為其實現在居家大家大多數人家裡都是坐室,沒有蹲室、馬桶了公共跟私人用的有時候又不太一樣"},{"start":11454.511,"end":11470.027,"text":"是 公共跟社用不太一樣但是我們有沒有去做一個比例因為日本確實有做這樣的民意調查什麼樣的調查就是他針對國中小的學生他們去做調查發覺說大家使用願意使用坐室跟蹲室馬桶的比例其實是高達9比1"},{"start":11471.388,"end":11485.335,"text":"就是說九成的學童都認為是說他們是要用坐式馬桶只有一成不到的民眾是認為說他們用蹲式馬桶而且這個比例是有大幅的一個越來越拉大的一個趨勢所以我們現在反推來講是說"},{"start":11486.696,"end":11501.594,"text":"我們學校目前都還有所謂的蹲式馬桶跟坐式馬桶即便是新設的新改建的公廁我們都還是有保留一定比例的蹲式馬桶但有沒有去做一個調查說那到底有多少學童他一定非用蹲式馬桶不可"},{"start":11505.853,"end":11523.992,"text":"所以我們現在就是使用者嘛我們要我們的教育環境裡面我們一定要就是讓我們的使用者讓我們的學童安心放心能夠使用公共廁所那如果說我們一定要存在蹲室馬桶坐室馬桶那很大一個比例很大一個原因是什麼"},{"start":11525.151,"end":11551.528,"text":"其實在於是說學童可能會覺得是說他不夠衛生不夠乾淨不敢做不敢做而不是他而不是他一定要用蹲式馬桶對市長你可以理解這兩個的不同嗎所以我們應該教育重點或者是說我們的整個公廁的一個維護重點應該擺在說我們怎麼樣維持乾淨讓同學願意來去使用而不是長期因為也有研究"},{"start":11552.228,"end":11574.307,"text":"是如果說學生在學校裡面他不敢上廁所然後長期憋尿等等或是說這個不敢上大號那可能就會造成他生理上的一個問題所以我們改善的重點應該是前端怎麼樣維持乾淨讓大家敢做而不是說你設了一個根本大家比例上根本沒有人要去用的我們就是廁所補助那個地方"},{"start":11574.767,"end":11594.782,"text":"學校的救世廁所的改建之後不管是蹲室或者是坐室事實上都會讓孩子比較願意上廁所所以我們才去補助那至於說你的便器類型的選擇要坐的或者是蹲的事實上我們是尊重學校多元的規劃跟選擇啦是所以剛才委員有提過說有些學校其實有"},{"start":11595.342,"end":11611.891,"text":"但是你現在想的是各個學校的比例可是我現在講你是主管機關上位的思考我們很難規定一定的比例這不是很難規定的問題而是說你應該要去做理解是說那現在大多數的同學他到底他的使用習慣以及他們的意願是什麼"},{"start":11614.128,"end":11626.725,"text":"你如果说把问题全都丢给第一线的教育现场或者说都丢给学校那学校各自各吧那这样我们主管机关也就没有存在的意义了所以才需要有一个教育部"},{"start":11628.051,"end":11655.68,"text":"市長所以這是為什麼就是你講的就是因為我們全台灣有三千多所學校所以才希望教育部有一個指引有一個準則能夠讓學校來去遵循我們是有指引日本有沒有在做有在做那本席現在提出來就跟剛剛張雅玲委員或是其他委員共同關心一樣我們是不是能夠教育部這邊來去了解現在學生國小同學國中同學他們的一個使用習慣進一步的來訂立或者是說來協助做指引"},{"start":11656.64,"end":11674.468,"text":"這點能不能做到因為現在那個公共建築物的衛生設備設計手冊剛才提到那個是內政部它就是針對設置有設置標準可是它沒有強制校園跟我們一般的公廁有沒有不同我覺得其實有不同為什麼因為校園的使用對象是"},{"start":11675.428,"end":11697.693,"text":"未成年的這個學子他還在發育中這部分我們來跟地方政府再來加強溝通是不是他在發育中他跟一般的民眾不同我們詢問一下地方政府他的意見那在地方政府來講或者是說我們的校園的一個使用現場其實這本來就是應該要共同努力教育部你可以有彙整資料這也是我們國教署這也是我們教育部存在的一個價值不是嗎"},{"start":11699.005,"end":11719.091,"text":"市長我連要一個是說我們再去做研究或是說討論都沒有辦法其實本席剛是順著張雅玲委員的議題我想委員有這種看法在地方政府學校裡面的家長老師或學生也應該有類似的看法所以我們將來會跟地方政府來討論什麼時候能夠給本席一個初步的結果我們未來"},{"start":11720.211,"end":11726.195,"text":"三個月內好不好?三個月內?好,本席等你三個月本席等你三個月好不好?來,進入到今天的一個議題其實說實在話我們剛剛有看到是說本席的這個"},{"start":11737.483,"end":11761.209,"text":"提案說明有提到是說23條部分有蠻多的委員共同關心就是希望能夠把這個這個瘦肉精強制禁止進入到校園食品的部分給入法過去教育部也有提到是說因為沒有法令的一個強制力所以說他比較沒有相關約束力所以其實我們共同應該是希望是說能夠把這個入法讓他比較有強制約束力讓"},{"start":11762.83,"end":11772.955,"text":"你願意來承擔這個廠商也好這部分那他就是很明確的一個指引那我看到是說我們教育部的這個回覆還是講說現在沒有急迫性"},{"start":11773.976,"end":11795.535,"text":"我們沒有說沒有齊柏芯啊2000年從開放那個含國際標準的豬肉進口之後事實上到現在為止我們透過共同供應契約已經要一律齁就是地方政府的那個午餐一律採用國產食品國產食品過去有沒有發生過用瘦肉精的有啊"},{"start":11796.696,"end":11822.257,"text":"當然有啊沒有啊就是有市面上都有啊不是不是市長學校裡面沒有啊學校沒有但是不代表說我們市面上沒有所以這也是為什麼我們認為是說應該要拔給陸髮就市面上就算有就是因為市面上有沒有出現過有啊我們的食材就是魚材用國產用而且還是我們這個比較大知名品牌甚至以前它是這個算是公家機關啊我想我是我們資料完全沒有我們的用共同供應企業那市長你要回去"},{"start":11822.797,"end":11851.576,"text":"那市長你的資料是錯的市長你要回去看資料市長你要請你的幕僚給你比較明確的資料市長你要看本期23條我的提案裡面就已經有把新聞都給放上去了所以我覺得這不用爭辯因為這個是我們捍衛學生的權益我們這個是我們希望能夠讓校園食品更安全這是讓大家安心的我不懂為什麼市長今天還要連那麼明確的新聞都已經有報導了然後還要這樣子來"},{"start":11853.537,"end":11874.684,"text":"我講的是我們的校園裡面透過共同供應契約透過檢驗到目前為止五年來沒有一個學童吃到萊豬我剛剛說明的是不是都一直講到我們很多委員的提案都是講說因為現在只有入法只有用國產的豬肉但是國產豬肉確實過去也有使用瘦肉腥的狀況是嘛"},{"start":11876.565,"end":11900.068,"text":"所以市長我們可不可以對焦一下看一下委員的提案以及我們關心的重點還有讓家長安心我覺得這才是最重要的事情最後一個小問題抱歉主席已經站起來了但是一分鐘的時間因為我們現在有看到是說教師的終點費有調漲但是課後照顧的教師員他們沒有"},{"start":11901.149,"end":11929.505,"text":"北市府也要或說其他的一個縣市政府他們也有提到是說這個有要這邊是說母法的一個部分那我不知道說有沒有縣市政府這邊有跟教育部這邊來提出相關的一個要求我請署長來回答各位報告現在縣市政府可能大家還是在共識上要謀求全國有一定的思維這個思維就是它跟家長的繳費有關對跟家長繳費有關的時候到底要怎麼樣才能謀得那個中間的"},{"start":11930.827,"end":11945.889,"text":"恆平這個需要一點時間剛剛原委員問的時候給我們三個月的時間好不好前面已經有一點蒐集意見但是有一些意見梳理出來之後還要時間這個很坦率的跟委員報告確實嘛這是大家共同關心的議題就是說課後照顧老師現在有多少位對"},{"start":11948.254,"end":11964.52,"text":"他有兩種形態一種是用到我們職場的老師另外一種是我們委辦的單位是那全台灣現在全台灣現在的這個數量可能會我們要大概兩小時內就可以給委員但是立即要把區隔出來可能我們要查一下系統謝謝署長"},{"start":11965.14,"end":11991.876,"text":"本席有看到說相關的報導兩萬多位啦那不過沒關係我還是等我們國教所一個資料但不管說兩萬多位三萬多位幾萬位的老師這個確實到目前為止他們是沒有重點費沒有在這一步的一個調查只要不涉及到跟家長收費的部分我們都已經陸續但是本席現在在講是說那他一樣一樣的教育現場一樣的教育環境但是有不同的一個待遇再過來就是要研究一下"},{"start":11992.376,"end":12012.149,"text":"所以我們現在要研議所以剛剛講說三個月內研議這個部分也收到可能縣市政府跟地方的反應那我們共同來討論看怎麼樣可以取得一個比較持平的方法好不好好 本席一樣等你三個月好 謝謝好 我們也謝謝洪孟愷委員回來我們教育委員會"},{"start":12014.209,"end":12030.018,"text":"那我們邀請下一位盧憲毅委員對不起我先下一位是鄭振前委員鄭振前委員不在鄭天才委員鄭天才委員鄭天才委員不在"},{"start":12031.275,"end":12056.428,"text":"劉建國委員 劉建國委員 劉建國委員不在何新淳委員 何新淳委員 何新淳委員不在羅明財委員 羅明財委員 羅明財委員不在王宏威委員 王宏威委員 王宏威委員不在下一位我們有請盧秀 盧憲一委員謝謝謝謝 有請次長好 有請次長"},{"start":12058.196,"end":12072.464,"text":"好委員好我們都知道現在小朋友的肥胖問題非常的嚴重那現在我們今天我們胃黃委員會也是在我們的兒少法其實他們現在有一個重點就是說希望能夠十一回溯擴到"},{"start":12073.184,"end":12098.018,"text":"擴大到18歲所以我是覺得說是不是我們有一些統計量表啊或者是說像剛才有委員提到幸福量表這個部分是不是沒有做得很徹底不然我們很想看看每一個地區或是每一個縣市或者是每一個種族可能他的肥胖的程度可能都不一樣現在我們看到我們台灣血統是青少年肥胖比例亞洲低殘年五年我們再看下一張"},{"start":12099.215,"end":12125.61,"text":"那我們再看一下OECD國家他們針對幾個就是說希望15歲的小朋友他們最不滿意的地方是在哪裡大部分在30%就對他的外表不滿意所以外表不滿意當然也包括肥胖甚至在前幾名有些是跟在學校學習在學校的生活跟老師的這些相處都是在前幾名所以我覺得說這方面的"},{"start":12126.89,"end":12139.321,"text":"計算然後這方面的一些成因啊這方面的一些因果關係我覺得這方面我們是不是教育部這邊有沒有做一些現在的一個成果好謝謝委員的關心其實這個有關那個學童"},{"start":12142.023,"end":12156.836,"text":"健康就是那個肥胖的問題其實幾年前各界都非常關心所以我們國教署也訂定了校園飲品跟點心販售範圍規範飲品點心種類熱量也把健康體味列為健康促進學校計畫"},{"start":12157.637,"end":12176.264,"text":"建議必選的議題來營造校園健康的環境也就是因為這樣子所以我們在113學年調查國中小學肥胖比例那國小現在是12.2%國中是16.3%其實是有略微微幅的下降下降不多但是是有控制住往下降"},{"start":12176.764,"end":12197.621,"text":"所以委員的關心我們未來會持續來透過學校衛生法或者施行記者等等來持續督導這些健康促進的行為希望這樣這邊能夠再精緻一點 比如說各縣市還有山區跟平地地區 平地地區跟平地地區的一個比較還有就是說各族別 比如說是魯海 排灣這些"},{"start":12198.562,"end":12214.626,"text":"我覺得肥胖的比例我覺得應該也可以做研究那現在是當然是小學生有下降然後國中生還是在三成左右我覺得這個比例確實是有高了一點高了一點我們會持續來注意這個比例我們也希望我們的那個未來的目標是往下降"},{"start":12214.986,"end":12230.321,"text":"那我覺得肥胖當然是跟飲食比較正相關那學校當然佔了一餐的比例不過在飲食的教育上面是不是在多著重在他們應該是完全要希望能夠採取天然的不要太多加工食品"},{"start":12230.902,"end":12246.922,"text":"第二個就是說其實很多偏遠地區還有我們部落的一些小朋友他們會參加客服班客服班他會提供一些餐點我覺得這個餐點的提供是不是也要納入就是說是不是去定期去檢查一下它的類別是什麼"},{"start":12247.162,"end":12271.629,"text":"有的時候他們像是煮了大鍋飯或者說大鍋麵那是不是要添加太多的一些加工食品在裡面其實我很關心的是飲食教育啦那飲食教育這部分我們學校現在配置也有營養師也有健康教育相關的老師所以我們現在也促成這個雙方的一個協作就開設一些飲食教育相關的課程希望他們了解說怎麼樣吃比較健康"},{"start":12272.029,"end":12295.65,"text":"最後就是在地食材現在很難進入學校因為在地食材常常不是在他們我們的合作廠商的一個選項裡面是不是在有一個管道可以讓他們說就在地的食材的部分部落的一些比較得獎的一些我們的比如說在地的紅藜小米這些能夠進入我們學校的餐點我覺得這個部分可以大大增加飲食的健康性也可以增進部落的一些我們的經濟活性"},{"start":12296.451,"end":12318.757,"text":"其實我們過去跟肉食三張EQ的過程裡面農業部跟教育部也合作也是希望盡量去採取那個在地食材那這部分也有在比例也是慢慢在提高也給補助OK那就多注重我們偏鄉地區跟我們部落的小朋友謝謝好謝謝好我們休息五分鐘"},{"start":12623.817,"end":12630.282,"text":"好繼續開會現在有請葉元智委員擔任主席"},{"start":12645.838,"end":12666.773,"text":"接下來我們請蘇清泉委員發言蘇清泉蘇清泉蘇清泉蘇清泉委員不在接下來我們請羅廷偉召委發言謝謝主席有請我們次長還有衛福部的許組長"},{"start":12670.506,"end":12698.78,"text":"好委員好好次昌好次昌我想今天我擔任召委也都聽了一整天大家的質詢大概也都了解一些脈絡但是我想我不希望我們的孩子在學校營養午餐使用到任何含有瘦肉精的一個肉品所以在這一次我提案學校衛生法第二三條條文修正主張就是乙型瘦體素的肉品不能夠用於學校的膳食"},{"start":12699.58,"end":12717.873,"text":"那對此呢我也想請問教育部的立場是不是不希望我們的孩子在學校營養午餐使用到含有瘦肉精的肉品我們鼓勵一律採取國產食材包括肉品對不起我有點震撼因為我的"},{"start":12719.096,"end":12747.627,"text":"助理寫說你會講一律使用國產肉品就真的就回答這樣子我們現在共同公民契約足字都沒有更動但是我當然知道你會這樣回答我當然知道你會這樣回答但問題是我希望你能夠回答的是是或不是究竟教育部的立場是不是希望我們的孩子不要使用到含有瘦肉精的肉品"},{"start":12750.365,"end":12763.914,"text":"希望不要使用到瘦肉精的肉品我覺得這個我們尊重啦就是說我們一般來講就是我們用這個是鼓勵使用國產的食材嘛那有些家長會擔心有些家長覺得無所謂但我們認為有些家長覺得無所謂"},{"start":12767.717,"end":12793.924,"text":"我是認為少數啦你按照國際標準有的會有少數啦對對對所以我的意思就是說我知道我們家長會有擔憂嘛那我們當然如果在這種情況下我們採取的方式是用共同供應契約來使用國產的肉品那事實上從五年前2020年底所有的學校一樣我知道共同供應契約都規約了到換學為止都是零是說有效來防止所以在今天我要先跟大家特別講"},{"start":12795.687,"end":12819.828,"text":"從你擔任到立委到現在你是次長我們目前都是零零食用到瘦肉精所以這是大家共同的努力以過往的努力也是現在最重要的政績因此已經有這麼好的成績相信入法也一定不會有問題相信入法也一定不會有任何的衝擊相信"},{"start":12820.669,"end":12844.028,"text":"哪怕入法也不會對於台美關係有任何的申辯依農業部現在動物用藥藥品的一個管理法公告乙型受體素被列為禁止國內製造輸入販售跟使用的動物用藥的一個禁藥所以台灣是禁用乙型受體素所以次長那就對了因為國內禁用"},{"start":12845.729,"end":12859.536,"text":"所以你們規定一律使用國產肉品的情況之下就不會用到所以既然教育部的立場這麼清楚所以我認為直接從母法去修修母法會有哪些問題"},{"start":12861.121,"end":12884.836,"text":"我看不懂我們不會我們尊重委員的主張好謝謝你謝謝你這麼清楚明確的回答所以我想今天學校衛生法的第二三條那麼重要的條文第三項也只規定應優先而已所以採用中央農業主管機關認證的在地優良農業產品而不是一律所以如果沒有優先使用怎麼辦"},{"start":12886.521,"end":12902.86,"text":"我們是尊重法律的精神但是在契約裡面是採一律就是等於禁止使用我想這個是一個立法技術的問題跟政策技術的問題我們用這樣的工具就能夠杜絕家長擔心使用到含奶的肉品"},{"start":12903.6,"end":12928.085,"text":"對 那目前實施五年來 事實上也是這樣子所以我認為說一定要入法一定要入法才能夠進訣那是不是有那個剛才那個那個農業部 衛福部他們也有提到說事實上我們現在有關動物身上的殘留藥品的種類相當多那單挑這個那個乙型受體素這個有時候要列那是不是其他的我們就"},{"start":12929.245,"end":12943.101,"text":"當然其他的也會有一些擔憂嘛會不會有個體要修法或者是關於肉腕不管是添加農藥有提到說我們的國產肉品尤其豬肉雖然我們禁止但是有查到"},{"start":12944.142,"end":12971.38,"text":"事實上我們的衛福部或者是食藥署這邊他們其實在坊間的肉品也在查驗那過去在查驗裡面是沒有被查驗到的對所以我開宗明義就講嘛過去到現在是零嘛那這是你過去我們共同努力啦民意代表到現在擔任行政官員都有的努力的過程所以把它入法也都是希望能夠更直接明確我想學校營養午餐吃的最多就是"},{"start":12972.561,"end":12996.174,"text":"豬肉但是調製我們現在的一個製品調理製品要怎麼樣去做一個把關醃肉排炸排骨他不是到學校才醃製啊是加工業者原本就做好的所以如果午餐的食材啊肉品供應製造者惡意以美國進口的廉價瘦肉精豬肉混充國產豬肉的時候怎麼防範"},{"start":12997.951,"end":13013.278,"text":"這個部分抽菸的機制你有先了解嗎那也請衛福部稍微能夠回答一下好"},{"start":13015.338,"end":13033.911,"text":"那關於這個學校營養午餐的部分這個部分我們每年都會規劃稽查的專案那也會協調地方衛生局針對供應學校午餐的團散業者進行這個稽查跟抽驗那每學期都會稽查一次然後也會抽驗至少一件"},{"start":13035.066,"end":13056.421,"text":"那以這個近年12年到14年來看的話我們大概有抽這個學校自設廚房大概有1800家次那這個自設廚房的部分也有將近這個抽驗的成品也有2100多件那台山業者的話平均每年也會抽700到800件以上報告"},{"start":13056.781,"end":13085,"text":"所以基本上你們是透過營養午餐保留食材去做後續的抽驗還是會以食材還未烹煮之前就會去做多數的抽驗呢因為像我剛剛講的它不是供應在我們的架上或者是我們在外面的販賣它是可能自己大量的進口然後如果作為醃製品啊然後來充當這個國產豬肉"},{"start":13086.781,"end":13100.632,"text":"阿這個部分請問有沒有防範的機制或者是抽檢的機制是 跟 呃 跟委員報告好那至於這個抽驗的部分齁就包括成品跟半成品那也包括豬肉跟其他的食材都是在我們的一個抽驗範圍以上"},{"start":13102.313,"end":13122.678,"text":"那請問一下衛福部在美國的市場裡,請問你有沒有聽過NFBAP?是,報告委員有。好,我想它是在美國一個很重要的一個關鍵制度。那關機衛福部2022年美國豬肉的查核報告第五頁呢,我想這個制度就是很清楚的講明,是從未餵食以行受體數的一個計畫。"},{"start":13124.238,"end":13147.885,"text":"而NFBAP是經美國農業行銷署認證再者我們看到第54頁參與NFBAP的租資未使用萊克多巴胺符合這個制度可以出口到中國大陸若減出但低於最高容許量可銷往中國非中國市場含美國國內"},{"start":13150.256,"end":13161.705,"text":"所以根據我手上的資料從113年到114年我們看到整個蘇台的美國豬肉生產設施大概有46家有26家參與這一項計畫NFBAP那有總共還有20家未參與這項計畫"},{"start":13171.451,"end":13182.007,"text":"所以次長如果台灣進口美國豬全都是NFBAP豬那我就同意學校衛生法23條維持現行條文"},{"start":13184.676,"end":13211.814,"text":"那如果不是而是繼續讓這個政府維持現狀一方面開放非NFBAP的美租書台另一方面學校衛生法只寫我們現在維持現狀的狀況然後用契約的方式然後沒有明文禁止以行受體數肉品進入我們的學校營養午餐那我想"},{"start":13212.762,"end":13233.755,"text":"我沒有理由不主張不修法去補上這一道最後孩子的安全閘門所以這是我們的一個理念我們的一個想法那謝謝你的尊重那我想過去我所認識的張亮萬間為人他有一句很重要一句話給孩子更好的未來"},{"start":13235.302,"end":13247.752,"text":"這是您過去所主打的孩子就是未來對不起孩子就是未來對不起給孩子更好的未來是我的我忘記了所以練了朗朗上口您是孩子就是未來"},{"start":13249.249,"end":13266.463,"text":"所以我想我們都有一個最重要的理念就是孩子永遠擺第一我想這是手段上跟政策工具上的不同但是我們的目標都是一致至少不要講說不支持的話就是支持來住進校園"},{"start":13267.103,"end":13295.998,"text":"我沒有說啊我剛剛都說你當任立委到行政院我剛好提到嘛我就說過去這樣主張就會貼這個標籤對我想每一個過去的努力我們都歷歷在目謝謝委員的肯定啦所以說我們也沒有支持那再來我也要順便再提問那不管是我剛剛一直在講的我們這個所謂的這個老師的終點費現在有漲了但是因為課後照顧啊寒暑假啊"},{"start":13296.658,"end":13313.333,"text":"阿這個部分有聽到兩個月內會給我們再消息嘛對不對真的是要特別拜託因為也已經三個月跟地方政府協商不能給我們三個月嗎三個月我怎麼記得剛剛是跟我講兩個月沒有兩個月是我們研議之後還要跟地方談嘛學習歷程才三個月吧剛剛魂委員聽我們說明也覺得蠻複雜的他是給我們三個月"},{"start":13321.125,"end":13342.355,"text":"那個跟家長收費的部分目前是這個部分啦我已經剛才提過過只要不是跟家長收費的部分譬如說連那個特教家級本來從2月1號開始的我們後來好像也同意朝那個方向就是說我們可以做的我們就盡量做了那接下來就是委員所關心的這個部分我們可能要跟地方政府再協商所以給我們一點時間"},{"start":13343.496,"end":13369.077,"text":"好 最後要提的就是我想這次特別還要修法的原因是因為我們看到這麼多這麼多的一個狀況有關於學生自殺自傷那學生心理輔導法也已經三讀完成但後續希望透過更多的法律透過更多的工具來接觸每一個孩子那還有所謂的月經貧窮所遇到的狀況"},{"start":13369.898,"end":13397.929,"text":"都是我們這次修法理念很重要的一個初衷之一也希望教育部能夠全力的來支持未來不管是三讀通過以後能夠加速進行推其成然後學校心理輔導的人員趕緊加速盤點然後進場然後幫他們加薪讓吸收人才最後讓孩子能夠一一接觸這個還要特別拜託次長孩子就是未來這是你說的也是我認同的我們一起加油好 謝謝"},{"start":13402.18,"end":13425.548,"text":"謝謝羅廷偉 趙偉好 我們下一位質詢的委員是葉元之委員主席好 麻煩請次長 謝謝好 有請次長"},{"start":13429.824,"end":13446.018,"text":"委員好那個次長好就是前兩天在新北市有一個國中發生一個算是在校園的暴力事件那不知道你有沒有看到這個影片影片之前有在傳啦我沒有看到你沒有看到那你知道這個事件嗎"},{"start":13446.724,"end":13464.981,"text":"我知道有一些個案你應該是負責國教的次長那你沒有看到的話我只是覺得還蠻訝異的啦因為這個事情大家非常的關注啦那我可以稍微描述給你聽啦他就是有有女學生拿著鋁棒"},{"start":13465.962,"end":13482.618,"text":"去敲擊另外一位學生那個畫面其實看起來是還蠻驚悚的拿鋁棒敲擊有一個還發出聲音那這個一不小心很可能都有生命危險所以這個事件"},{"start":13485.663,"end":13512.324,"text":"你有沒有去了解一下狀況怎麼樣?有,我想國教署有校安通報系統都有啦那學校是在3月22號自習本案所以他們有做校安通報那學生的家長是在3月24號提出校園霸凌事件的檢舉所以那學校也會依校園霸凌防制準則啟動調查市長,這個就是後續的學校處理方式但我們要杜絕這種事情發生嘛"},{"start":13514.307,"end":13515.679,"text":"因為這個學生被那個鋁棒這樣敲"},{"start":13517.73,"end":13546.328,"text":"如果說真的是敲得很嚴重的話或下手不知輕重的話很可能又會造成另外一個割井案的這樣子一個嚴重的不幸事件所以我們應該是要去預防這個事情的發生那我不知道你們對於現在校園所發生的狀況了不了解據我的了解啦現在很多在學校裡面會用這種暴力對待其他同學這些人他後面都也是有干戈啦也是有黑幫在罩啦"},{"start":13547.108,"end":13562.959,"text":"那禮拜一的時候我們在這邊有開公聽會就在討論校園安全嘛因為我提了一個安心上學法案非常謝謝那個召委的排案啦我看到其實市長還有那天到場的司法院廳長也沒有反對這個法案那其實我就是希望能夠"},{"start":13563.76,"end":13590.153,"text":"真的杜絕這樣的狀況因為在現行的體制之下每次我常聽到教育部的官員都講說我們會加強輔導或什麼講一大堆但是就是沒有用就是沒有用所以類似這樣的事情就是會發生那我不知道次長你了不了解其實現在學校裡面以前還有發生過一個國中老師出門不敢走正門因為裡面有很多在黑幫罩的學生假設你在學校管"},{"start":13591.058,"end":13619.071,"text":"管那些學生的話你走正門的話會被那些學生的干戈干解找麻煩你不知道這個狀況那當然教育部會講說這個我們要連結比如說警察機關或什麼社政機關或什麼什麼機關問題是這長期存在就是無法解決所以我其實蠻希望說次長那天公聽會也沒有機會可以跟你這樣詢答啦就希望教育部可以支持這個法案那支持這個法案其實是"},{"start":13620.651,"end":13642.036,"text":"我覺得可以創造幾個雙贏的局面第一個像這種有黑幫罩會對其他學生造成暴力會造成生命威脅這些學生他可以離開那個學校到一個教育部為他們所辦的專屬學校但這個學校也是一個正常學校108課綱你加強輔導資源或者是請這個非常有教育理念的團體來辦"},{"start":13644.33,"end":13651.7,"text":"讓這些黑幫或者是這些暴力的學生可以得到更好的教育那原來的學校可以得到喘息啦所以我不知道"},{"start":13652.867,"end":13678.983,"text":"次長你覺得我們可不可以朝那個方向去討論因為後續我們就會來推動修法利益很好啦問題是說那個制度上其實那天工地會也有很多包括退休的校長包括一些老師也提到說那孩子把他放到那邊去之後他還是要重回社會沒有這個是技術性問題啦我覺得技術性我們都可以再討論我們可以怎麼樣讓他更好但是至少我覺得那個做法解決了"},{"start":13680.41,"end":13704.649,"text":"平常想好好讀書的學生生命受到威脅的問題本來很多政策就是孰輕孰重嘛你覺得那些會用鋁棒敲頭的學生的受教學很重要那難道被敲頭的那個學生的受教學不重要他的生命就不重要嗎這本來就是要看你要解決什麼問題嘛很難兩全其美你現在就是沒有辦法提出一個方法去解決嘛目前是有那但是就是沒有"},{"start":13705.689,"end":13730.342,"text":"有沒有辦法落實或者說把它做好就是沒有啦你的辦法就是做不到嘛現在就是被黑幫吸收而且現在黑幫吸收這些很頻繁嘛為什麼因為像詐騙集團或什麼吸收他們做車手啊然後還有各方面嘛短期你就是無法解決那短期之內這些學生的生命安全不用顧嗎再者啦那個次長你知不知道最近私立中學正在很多人在報考當中嘛陸陸續續放榜"},{"start":13730.962,"end":13757.549,"text":"然後現在的錄取率超低的前一段時間有一個私立中學的學生跟我講他說他們學校這次報考破天荒考場都不夠還跟別的學校借考場為什麼這麼多的學生通通家長都要讓學生去考私中其實一個部分也是校園安全那難道教育部沒有責任嗎教育部讓很多家長覺得說好像放到公立高中不安全所以大家往私中跑都不會想辦法解決這個問題我都比你還急"},{"start":13759.642,"end":13782.68,"text":"對不對 然後我從第一次 就是2024年當立委就不斷的跟教育部爭取校安人員 國中本來沒校安人員啊爭取一年多 增加一位 增加一位高中是六個班一位 現在國中六十班一位沒有 114學年度是633位喔不是 一個 我是說一個學校 國中啦國中一個學校才一位"},{"start":13783.82,"end":13811.961,"text":"然後每一次跟你們說可不可以增加可不可以增加比照高中六個班一位沒有錢就把校園按尖擺在那邊然後再者我看到很多網友就看到很多民眾是說那個國中發生那個事情老師要教好校長要道歉學校老師怎麼樣我也要幫學校老師講個話校長講個話你面對這種幫派在照的學生如果是幫派照學生校長跟老師要怎麼處理"},{"start":13813.157,"end":13829.577,"text":"你要從制度上面去解決嘛所以有一個最新的調查我不知道次長有沒有看到是親子天下發表的全國國中小的教師幸福感的調查我跟你講一個數據非常恐怖喔他說近六成的國中小教師五年內想要離職啦"},{"start":13831.528,"end":13846.349,"text":"欸近六成欸近六成的國中小教師五年內要離職你有看到嗎沒關係沒看到我不為難你了因為調查非常多那你知不知道他們想要離職的原因最多的是什麼51.9%的認為沒有尊嚴感沒有尊嚴感"},{"start":13849.363,"end":13873.445,"text":"在學校裡面動則得救然後動不動就被檢舉然後面對這種學生有管也不知道怎麼管不管好像也會被罵沒有尊嚴感大家都要離職沒有幸福感然後更可怕一個數據跟你講66.9%的教師不支持自己的孩子或學生成為老師所以我們現在常常在講少子化少子化跟你講沒多久少師化了"},{"start":13875.109,"end":13899.659,"text":"沒多久要掃私話了我是不知道教育部有沒有拿出一個對策整體的配套在處理這件事情所以這個事情非常的嚴重啦我希望這個教因為我們教育委員會部長或者次長會常來嘛之後我還會再問啦我希望說可以針對我剛剛舉出的問題可以真的拿出來一些辦法出來然後還有一個我是一個比較具體的議題跟您討論就是"},{"start":13902.113,"end":13929.44,"text":"之前我們講說要幫很多老師增加終點費這個講了半天謝謝教育部終於有跨出第一步當然我們覺得不夠但是至少有做這個給你肯定如果有機會增加的話更好那現在有一個狀況你知道因為缺老師缺老師的原因所以很多課程是找退休的老師回來帶課其實退休老師回來帶課是很好的一件事情因為他們有經驗嘛他有經驗回來帶課然後退休回來帶課"},{"start":13930.339,"end":13957.307,"text":"那終點費增加的情況之下那這樣你知道嗎像退休的公教人員如果在就業的話他有一個薪資上限嘛是最低薪資 對吧三萬三就三萬三嘛 三萬三他有一個上限嘛所以現在終點費提高我覺得終點費提高合理喔我先講說他是合理的喔可是因為終點費提高的狀況他原本可以帶的課就變少了嘛因為他一下就衝破三萬三嘛"},{"start":13958.12,"end":13974.197,"text":"那這就造成現在又要再找更多的代理老師其他的代理老師來帶課我覺得站在這個解決校園缺老師的立場啦其實希望教育部可以跟人事總署或者考試院研究一下可以突破這個天花板這有必要的啦"},{"start":13975.737,"end":14001.604,"text":"也在研議有在研議朝這個方向在研議什麼時候會有一個就正在發生的事情可以講因為涉及到人事總署所以我們沒有人事總署我也跟人事總講了我跟考試委員講了然後每個人都在研議每次問都是在研議再問就是在研議但是什麼時候會研議出來我們有去找他們沒有一個月我是跟他們說一個月我跟他們講跟他們講是除了老師之外為什麼特別來教育委員會講"},{"start":14004.936,"end":14024.211,"text":"其實我認為說公教人員退休再就業不應該有薪資上限因為第一個他是憑自己的勞力嘛你又不是免費給他你又不是說你不用做事我給你多一點不是他是憑自己的勞力去工作嘛第二件事情當時訂這個上限年改之前啊啊年改之後他們的退休金也被砍了啊那被砍之後為什麼上限沒有"},{"start":14024.631,"end":14043.477,"text":"沒有提高他如果在私立是沒有這個問題啦主要就是說他代表公立私立沒有但是只要有公費資助或公費計畫資助都會嘛那我現在講是公立學校的老師的問題嘛那這個很嚴重因為這個一個月內啦好不好然後再一個齁很快講一下那個上一次我有問"},{"start":14045.384,"end":14072.745,"text":"不知道市長還是署長我忘記了講到那個行政獎金因為國中小行政獎金有發下去嘛那當時公幼因為比較晚宣布所以公幼有一些意見我們那時候還反映後來署長是有講說公幼的教師的工作獎金也會有了嘛對吧署長是這樣沒錯吧那教保員沒有嗎因為現在很多幼兒園裡面是教保員在兼園長兼主任兼組長都有啊那教保員的部分還會有嗎"},{"start":14074.892,"end":14092.199,"text":"委員這邊提到的一個是像導師費的那個教保費處理了像行政工作者的那一個他可以涉及到辦法我們會後把那個辦法我們現在研議的情形在會後大概三點以前跟委員報告涉及到辦法辦法就你定的啊我就講說教保員因為"},{"start":14094.48,"end":14120.894,"text":"同樣都是行政工作你今天比如說要負責學校行政工作要顯評鑑然後保護幼兒的安全或者是做這些東西他不會因為他是教師或者是教保員有所區別的工作內容是一樣的嘛但是現行情況之下幼兒園的教師有工作獎金教保員卻沒有做的一樣的事情但是有的有 有的沒有就怪嘛那你現在講的是有辦法在演繹當中所以會朝會給教保員的方向是不是"},{"start":14121.474,"end":14147.888,"text":"這個方向這可能我這個時間因為這個涉及到所有地方政府的裁員不能夠中央請客然後地方又要出錢所以這個的確在演繹你講得非常好所以就是中央請客中央買單就大家都高興所以是不是可以朝所以你現在是怎樣因為裁員關係沒有要做是不是沒有講模擬兩可也必定所以我剛才跟委員報告的是說你現在收尾我們把比較確定的情況給我們一點時間寫一個文字給委員三點以前給你"},{"start":14150.649,"end":14164.197,"text":"好不好但是你不要給我給我是說我不做啊那不是沒有意義啊要朝做的方向嗎你覺得合不合理嗎就同樣是在做一樣的工作那教師有工作獎金但教保員沒有你覺得合理嗎書冠你覺得合理嗎書冠你覺得合不合理啊"},{"start":14168.832,"end":14195.131,"text":"會朝這個方向你覺得合不合理嘛因為那個圓的規模不一樣圓跟效的規模不一樣那這個沒有沒有不要跳不要不要繞圈圈我是說同樣的工作教師有工作獎金教保員沒有你覺得合不合理次長覺得合理嗎當然如果按照這樣講是不合理對啊好不好那就趕快好不好把教保員大家要同工同就做一樣事情也應該要給工作獎金好謝謝"},{"start":14196.417,"end":14211.103,"text":"好 謝謝葉元之委員的質詢那我想他剛剛所關切的這個議題本席也有聽到許多的一些陳情那是不是也請我們國教署下午三點回應的時候也一併讓我知道一下答案我想我們一起來追蹤"},{"start":14212.523,"end":14241.285,"text":"好 今天的登記質詢委員均已發言完畢另有楊瓊英委員 徐欣盈委員提出書面質詢均列入公報紀錄關於本次會議做如下的決議報告集詢答完畢委員所提書面質詢還有相關資料均列入紀錄刊登公報對於委員的質詢要求提供的相關資料"},{"start":14242.642,"end":14261.628,"text":"以及未及時答覆的部分請相關競訴機關能夠以書面答覆學校衛生法相關修正草案另定期繼續審查報告委員會今天的議程處理完畢現在散會謝謝各位"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}