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PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":642.2,"end":642.406,"text":"谢谢观看,下次见!"},{"start":689.872,"end":690.776,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":900.555,"end":920.242,"text":"谢谢观看 欢迎订阅"},{"start":1580.035,"end":1580.927,"text":"谢谢观看,下次见!"},{"start":4050.866,"end":4078.317,"text":"好 可以開始我們現在協商會議開始那進行來協商兒童法現在介紹在場的委員第一位是民眾黨的邱惠如邱委員第二位是林淑穩林委員第三位是王正旭王委員介紹在場的官員部長施崇良"},{"start":4080.413,"end":4096.388,"text":"社長李健德社家署署長周道軍那火龜會參事專門委員許子惠啊好謝謝對對好那政府正式檢驗室查書字門檢證署警務證錢配軍謝謝消防署專門委員簡簡"},{"start":4105.083,"end":4111.607,"text":"檢專門委員檢綠淳國土管理署科長陳雅芳教育部國簽署副組長郭芝瑩勞動部勞動福祉退休師專門委員李娟鳳調評師專門委員嚴家榮"},{"start":4135.018,"end":4155.803,"text":"謝謝 關係師 專門委員 許瓊月國產署副組長 張翠芳護水署科長 蔡旭毅國庫署科長 洪培雲金管會保險局副組長 王祺鈞謝謝原民會社會福利處 專門委員 陳文林謝謝"},{"start":4162.561,"end":4168.148,"text":"陳美玲,對不起行政院人事行政總署總務委員嚴少儀,謝謝個人資料保護委員會準備處科長陳錦怡"},{"start":4181.816,"end":4200.176,"text":"本案提報院院會弊案審查報告保留條文既有22條另有附帶決議保留條文案8案經前兩次的協商 上個保留條文10條及衛務部提出已通過條文著修文字案2條目前附帶決議增加1案 既有9案"},{"start":4200.817,"end":4224.176,"text":"那本案具有專業性希望今日各保留條文盡量協商通過也請各位委員中的考量 衛護部也順勢溝通那今天進行的方式能請衛護部先做說明再請各位委員提出意見那最後會眾協商結論請各黨員簽名衛護部提出了相關條文的建立在各位委員的桌上請大家參閱"},{"start":4226.864,"end":4231.234,"text":"這本應該大家都有啦,這本,謝謝好,那我們現在就針對第39條"},{"start":4235.779,"end":4237.44,"text":"我們是不是請衛部先做說明"},{"start":4266.64,"end":4275.951,"text":"有消息資格的室友的部分我們有甄列這個我們召委在先前在委員會的時候有提案的部分那這個有犯凍保法這個最嚴重的這一類的這種"},{"start":4280.109,"end":4295.565,"text":"對於動物的罪那可能連帶的會有這個他的性格上面或者是行為上面對於這個托育人對於這個受托的小朋友會有一些潛在的風險我們把這個部分去把它甄列進來以上好 委員有沒有其他意見"},{"start":4300.595,"end":4308.802,"text":"沒有,好來有嗎?沒有齁好,那39條是不是照建議條文通過?好,謝謝那繼續審查第55條請行政單位來做說明"},{"start":4315.53,"end":4344.131,"text":"接下來是要寫上第55條那55條是有關照顧爭議的部分那先前主要是這個院門條文在整個照顧爭議的流程跟範圍的部分是相對這個經過各位委員的討論跟指教之後有比較清楚我們把這個條文做了一個重整第一個在於這類的事件我們統一就名稱的部分我們把它定位為叫做照顧的爭議那也參考了各位委員的意見第一個"},{"start":4344.671,"end":4367.804,"text":"那條署的部分,未來有這一類照顧增益,我們可以跟由直轄市縣市政府來進行條署那條署原則上是以一次為主,它是定位成一個訴訟外來協助解決爭端的一個做法那如果在條署的過程中,有在我們在這一次的建議的條文的裡面在第五項,就是這一頁的最底下這一項"},{"start":4368.524,"end":4396.203,"text":"如果發現在調處過程中有嚴重的違規行為包括像虐兒、霸凌這一類的案件的時候那我們是要把這個程序就要調處的程序就要停下來那調處停下來之後就是回到相關的條文有地方政府對於這一類嚴重的違規行為來進行查處查證和處罰我們在後面第五項跟第六項做了這樣的一個文字的處理以上的報告"},{"start":4397.93,"end":4420.193,"text":"好 各位有沒有其他的意見我想現在這個修正版本就是藍色的那一頁嘛 對不對這個嘛就是最後一項是統一事實以調處一次為原則但是這個立法說明欄裡面有沒有寫到調處不成立之後"},{"start":4422.25,"end":4449.748,"text":"要走訴訟不是訴願有沒有寫這個部分我們會配合在那個這個協商確定之後我們會把那個條文的說明我們會把它補完整我想就是要列入紀錄列入紀錄條處不成立之後不是走訴願而是走訴訟這個是要寫清楚因為怕使用法律的人看不懂我們立法的意旨所以就這樣如果是會寫進去就OK"},{"start":4453.8,"end":4466.383,"text":"55條我們就照建議這個條文來通過那個文字是不是你們要去做修正說明欄我們會說明欄我們會說明欄補充謝謝55條就照建議的條文通過繼續審查"},{"start":4480.995,"end":4481.837,"text":"林淑莫林的第63條"},{"start":4485.053,"end":4510.327,"text":"林淑坤委員的版本的第63條那在討論過之後我們在文字上也做了一個參酌各委員的討論理解我們做了一個整理那第一個是在序文第一項的序文的部分他在托育人員在托育服務時間內要在托育服務的處所來做專心托育的動作讓這個構成要件的範圍讓整個行為的要求義務的範圍更明確第二個整列第二項"},{"start":4511.187,"end":4540.592,"text":"就是居家托育人員因為緊急事件如果是緊急事件需要離開住所要通知居家托育居托中心或者法律電視或實際照顧兒童之人要安排相關的人員來協助臨時照顧其他的受托協助臨時照顧受托的兒童那這個才能夠去比較有完整的一個照顧上的銜接然後才能夠確保這個受托兒童的照顧上的安全我們甄列了一個第二項的文字以上"},{"start":4546.294,"end":4565.62,"text":"好 各位有沒有其他意見我這邊有建議加個文字就是最後一段 協助臨時照顧收拖兒童 後使得離開可以嗎就是第二項最後面嘛對對對協助臨時照顧收拖兒童 後使得離開這樣子會不會變成失去團形會不會有什麼假設的狀況我們沒有辦法想像的"},{"start":4575.354,"end":4602.813,"text":"這個跟什麼假設完全沒有關係這是協助臨時照顧所有的兒童後死的離開我沒有很具體的意見只是說有沒有什麼假設的狀況那沒有的話我沒意見我想委員 昭偉的建議是那個跟昭偉還有各位說明因為他的開頭就寫了居家托育人員因緊急事件離開前向處所前"},{"start":4605.578,"end":4628.312,"text":"那有時候要上救護車,一前的要遮尿啊好,那就不用,好,好,好,也該是全巷訴所前對,離開前,意思一樣,跟招穩的意思是一樣好,好,那就不用增加,好,謝謝,那各位有沒有其他意見?沒有沒有,那我們就照今天條文通過,繼續審查條文第60條"},{"start":4632.126,"end":4635.49,"text":"這個有跟38、39條保留運動請行單做說明第60條是屬於已經進入到罰則的部分那當時保留是因為和第38條和第39條的條文保留有"},{"start":4649.363,"end":4668.557,"text":"聯動的關係那38條跟39條的目前的構成要件文字都已經確定了那我們也配合就文字上面去做了一個處理那第一個是有關相次跟文字的部分我們有在第二款的部分有重新做一個處理以外第二個是在其次是在"},{"start":4669.741,"end":4689.522,"text":"我們在第二項的部分有配合38條39條的這個有處罰的規定的時候我們有甄列相關處罰的規定就是第一個是處罰的太陽第一種是聘僱限職的工作人員有這些重大的違規情形有這個"},{"start":4690.983,"end":4717.256,"text":"應該要停止契約應該要終止契約但是沒有終止契約那或者是要命居家同仁要去應該要命這些工作人員要去停止食物那有違反這樣的行為的時候那就以配合38條、39條已經通過的條文我們去陣列相關的處罰規定以上好 各位委員 行政單位說明有沒有其他意見我抱怨一下"},{"start":4718.888,"end":4747.197,"text":"就是說我們整部法律省這麼久都採的這麼嚴格人家現在開放外籍幫傭也可以顧小孩那他有沒有緊急事情有沒有等到有人手幫助的時候就離開也不知道那其他規定事項有沒有遵守也不知道然後本國的這一些保姆規定的這麼嚴格居家托育這麼嚴格結果外籍的來了完全都不用管"},{"start":4748.692,"end":4762.28,"text":"我有時候覺得說,啊,我們選這個法律,好像比較有必要性好,我抱歉,我這是抱怨而已,我說錯了,謝謝好,謝謝,你也應該跟我們說那各位有沒有其他意見?"},{"start":4763.427,"end":4790.769,"text":"沒有沒有我們就照建立條文通過繼續審查第64條請行政單位做說明第64條的部分大概有兩個調整的地方第一個是依照先前在實體這個行為的條文的部分那行為要規範的對象從托育相關人員有申列居家托育服務中心的工作人員那這是在這個第一項的最開頭的部分就把它申列進來那第二個是這個"},{"start":4792.29,"end":4813.937,"text":"也考慮到這類主委要去公布機構名稱的時候因為霸凌性騷擾不斷管教的時候其實行為太陽非常的寬所以也參酌了當時在整個討論的內容在情節輕微的部分他是直接就依照這個前面有所通過的第39條來做相關的處理以上報告好 各位委員有沒有其他意見"},{"start":4816.243,"end":4831.451,"text":"沒有那我們就照建議條款通過那繼續審查第66條請行政代理做說明第66條的部分也就是這個主要的調整的部分是搭配第一個是剛才前面"},{"start":4834.135,"end":4852.632,"text":"臨時委員版本的63條的部分這個專心托育的部分我們要配合去甄列相關的罰則我們現在把這個罰則甄列在第三款那原來行政委員法案的條文第三款以下的款式就做一個往後的一列那第二個是"},{"start":4853.755,"end":4867.623,"text":"在第六款的部分也配合前面審查條文的部分那這個要去托育人員居家托育人員要去投保的部分的那個構成要件的文字配合前面通過的條文我們來做一個調整"},{"start":4871.397,"end":4892.997,"text":"另外這個也跟這個主席報告一下我們同仁在整理的時候我們發現了有另外一個今天在資料上面我們還沒有我們是剛剛最後對的時候才發現有一個地方可能有我們建議是不是文字也一併做一個處理的地方是在這一條的第一款"},{"start":4894.458,"end":4922.304,"text":"這一條的第一款它是違反第十一條第四項規定有規避妨礙或拒絕直轄市縣市主管機關的監督但是我們在第十一條裡面對於這個這個有相關去檢查或者去查核的部分的權限除了主管機關之外先前在討論的時候還有針列居家托育服務中心所以我們建議在第一款的文字裡面能夠再去補一個"},{"start":4923.084,"end":4950.026,"text":"在這個這一款的第二行直轄市縣市主管機關之後那我們建議增列及居家托育服務中心九個字然後再接到原來的我們的建議文字之監督或於檢查時藉故長逆而統這樣的話那個將來構成要件會更加的明確跟完整這個如果我們先在整理的時候才剛剛發現也跟各位委員致歉"},{"start":4951.578,"end":4956.945,"text":"好 針對66條 各位有沒有其他意見如果沒有 那我們就照修正後通過"},{"start":4965.271,"end":4992.19,"text":"先讀好那第66條的部分整個除了我們提建議的文字之外我就只宣讀第一款的部分違反第11條第4項規定規避妨礙或拒絕直轄市縣市主管機關或及居家托育服務中心之監督或與檢查時藉故藏匿兒童以上好 這樣修正文字大家沒有意見了那我們就修正通過那繼續審查第67條請"},{"start":4996.528,"end":4999.889,"text":"大樓管理員要求先換證或者是要打電話才能夠看對方要不要讓我們進去那這樣子有沒有規避妨礙檢查"},{"start":5017.059,"end":5045.045,"text":"大樓管理員因為這次修正條文會包括任何人不得妨礙規避拒絕所以大樓管理員就被拿進來我是講行為這個行為有沒有算規避可以算如果有需要未來再通過之後我們透過韓式我們會去更明確地來規避大樓管理員說你是縣政府來的或是你居托中心的但是你等一下我要問一下我的業主上面的這個屋主同不同意你上去"},{"start":5045.905,"end":5070.564,"text":"然後要求你等他們同意才能上去這樣算不算規避妨礙檢查我們在這裡構成要件可能要講清楚我們現在的想法就是這個就是一個不管是縣市政府或者是居家托育服務中心它的檢查就是其中會包含這種叫做不事先告知的檢查那這種不事先告知的時候所以如果"},{"start":5072.212,"end":5098.273,"text":"檢查的人員已經明確告知向大樓管理人員那大樓人員還會拒絕的話我們可以透過函式的方式我們未來會做一個正式的函式來處理把這種行為探樣列為它是所謂的規避妨礙拒絕的行為這個要講清楚我們可以未來透過法規的解釋我們會把這樣列進來正常來講大樓管理人員他就不能凌駕公務員的公權力之上"},{"start":5100.114,"end":5110.632,"text":"但是很多人會沒有這個認知了所以你特別說明有一個函式給這些公寓大廈的相關管理單位應該是比較好"},{"start":5114.642,"end":5118.565,"text":"另外有一個新增的66條66條的後面新增的條文這個條文就是剛才回應林淑芬委員所提到的問題因為這個有在第11條第4項"},{"start":5135.618,"end":5152.962,"text":"有規範到任何人不可以去做規避妨礙拒絕這一類的檢查所以它其實嚴格來說它應該是在這個條文裡面將來是在這個條文去解釋去處理那也是要回應這樣的狀況我們建議會增加增列一個條文把這樣的狀況會列進來這個我們會來做相對應的一個的調適的這個調適的再做一個整理以上報告"},{"start":5160.464,"end":5174.229,"text":"所以這講的任何人是 包含因為現在我們現在目前就好幾個是 管委會有時候是管委會自己在阻撓 並不是保姆本身就是他們不讓他上去 所以這以後也是會罰到那個嗎 管委會這樣嗎"},{"start":5175.137,"end":5194.371,"text":"就用這一條用這一條是 好跟委員報告因為我們現在處罰的時候或有處罰的對象那有些是工作人員或者是機構我們在條文裡面都會寫得很明白那不屬於這些有明確列入的我們就會把它列到任何人通通列到任何人所以像大樓管理員那邊就會跑到這邊來好 這樣可以了"},{"start":5200.171,"end":5205.596,"text":"所以就針對這個部分照建立的條文通過好 我們繼續審查第67條請行政大臣做說明"},{"start":5209.268,"end":5233.92,"text":"第67條的部分主要也是要搭配這個原來的第18條企業托育的未經核准招收的罰則的部分那這個部分的話我們現在的有一個建議就是在這一條的條文後面原來只有一項那我們會建議再增列一項"},{"start":5243.99,"end":5264.058,"text":"幾種態樣在先前討論的時候第一個是針對如果居家托育服務中心的工作人員他是沒有依照第48條規定通報或者是居家托育服務中心在聘僱工作人員的查詢的時候沒有先辦理到職前的或者聘僱後的是不是有消息資格的查詢"},{"start":5264.958,"end":5281.631,"text":"以及這個在聘僱人員在49條第4項的規定他聘僱以外的異動是沒有報主管機關被查的部分那這個部分的話我們那個搭配先前的條文的草案的討論我們在這邊增訂一項的增訂一項的相關的罰則以上請說明"},{"start":5292.317,"end":5314.227,"text":"這個前幾天有個新聞就是說台中的光田醫院它新設拖音中心對外一直說是院內員工的福利那它的名額有限很多的工作人員還在排隊等拖音中心結果他們發現其實不是裡面員工的親戚的小孩"},{"start":5315.666,"end":5341.152,"text":"有特別處理送進來就是有特權進來這樣子插隊那合格的員工的小孩排隊不能收拖所以我們一直在講說這個事情到底要不要有罰則如果你有沒有罰則的話就是這個樣子而且應該是蠻普遍的罰輕罰重不能沒有罰吧因為當時這個就是以標榜照顧員工勞工的福祉為核心"},{"start":5349.092,"end":5364.399,"text":"跟委員報告我們現在是沒有把這個樣態的處罰的條文列在第67條裡面那當時在委員會審查的時候我們的想法是其實不管是七月半你會有一些想法"},{"start":5366.84,"end":5394.215,"text":"我們再有一個建議是說如果是針對這樣子的情況我們在第70條的部分我們有一個建議我們是建議是說因為像這樣情況畢竟它還是一個收拖的行為的順序的問題那這個部分我們會建議是不是擺在如果等一下可以徵詢一下各位委員的意見那是不是可以擺在70條的部分它就是用先限期改善"},{"start":5394.755,"end":5422.066,"text":"不改善再處罰的方式來處理那67條是直接處罰再改善我們就是順序上面來做一個調動這個有就是說至少你有規確以後必須要改善那不改善就要處罰因為沒有罰則的話這個就等於形同虛設那為什麼這樣子是因為現在這個企業裡面附設的這一些設施大多數都是勞動部有補助有拿工部門的資源"},{"start":5424.168,"end":5449.967,"text":"所以應該是要有罰則的那你說先限期改善然後之後再處罰或許可以那看你們怎麼設計好那67條我們就來照建立條文通過啦然後繼續調整一下再來正面剛剛講那個部分看文字怎麼修好不好好67條我們就照建立條文通過好繼續審查第70條"},{"start":5451.768,"end":5478.655,"text":"各位委員包括第70條的部分也是主要就是針對這個前面所提到的有包括前面有條文在保留和前面有提到是先前在委員會討論的時候違反定型化契約的罰則我們在這邊這次定型化契約的罰則的部分要罰則的處罰我們在這邊有去處理把它列進來然後第二個是在原來第15條的"},{"start":5480.815,"end":5507.83,"text":"通過了條文第15條的部分這個居家托育人員在跟家長簽約以後書面契約的影本要給居家托育服務中心那這個部分的話我們也配合先前討論的結果我們把這樣的一個罰則列進來另外第34條也一樣這個居家托育中心 對不起托育機構他的托育人員的配置那跟"},{"start":5508.65,"end":5526.848,"text":"收託兒童的配置情形的部分那這個這一點應該是聯運行政委員會先程在這個托育機構要揭露資料的部分那我們是把我們把這個部分的罰則列到第70條這邊來那第70條處罰的結構就是他是要先限級改善"},{"start":5527.168,"end":5556.167,"text":"借期未改善的話他的罰則就是六千到三萬元以下那剛才跟林委員報告的這個部分的話第十八條的部分我們原來是我們剛才給委員的資料裡面是還沒有列進來那我們有準備一個條文的文字版本我們現在有現在放在這個螢幕上面我簡單的先宣讀一下我們會在這邊我們建議是不是可以在這裡增列第三款就是托育機構未依第十八條第四項規定"},{"start":5558.749,"end":5582.577,"text":"報經直轄市縣市主管機關核准而招收其他兒童搭配這個這個原來討論的第18條第4項他如果招收了自己企業員工以外兒童要先報經主管機關核准那我們就是他如果沒報經核准那就先改善沒有限改就處罰大概用這樣的一個條文結構來做一個條文的設計以上說明"},{"start":5592.361,"end":5606.837,"text":"我們現在的狀況就是說你要優先收拖自己企業內那如果要收企業外你要先報核准但是跟我企業內優先沒有的話要核准"},{"start":5609.101,"end":5620.46,"text":"我有餘額報核准收外面不曉得地方政府知不知道他有餘額還是沒有餘額搞不好沒有餘額人家還在排隊他也是往上報了怎麼辦"},{"start":5624.221,"end":5640.851,"text":"現行在管理上送到托育機構的部分因為家長是會領有這個托育補助所以我們現在在行政管理上的時候哪些小朋友在哪個幼稚園我們在系統上其實目前是勾結的到"},{"start":5642.72,"end":5662.407,"text":"我的意思是說這個罰則要不要就是說如果發現他其實還有員工的子女還在排隊要等著收拖那他就沒有就直接把他當成有餘額申報跟縣政府申報那縣政府許可了那如果這種狀況的話我們就禁止他"},{"start":5664.768,"end":5689.227,"text":"在收託多久我們這樣寫構成要件的想法其實跟委員方向一樣因為他一定是要有餘額才能收其他兒童所以他開始要去見他現改的時候那就是要求他要去報主管機關核准一定是收了機關核准有餘額兩個字還在嗎在第18條有餘額的部分文字是在的好OK我知道了可以好謝謝"},{"start":5690.762,"end":5693.284,"text":"好 70條我們就修正通過繼續審查委員因素82條"},{"start":5702.084,"end":5724.733,"text":"不是 那個第70條後有一個新增條文一樣 對不起第70條後面還有一個新增的條文是不是是 在70條後面有一個新增的條文那主要是在先前條文討論在委員會討論的時候那對於這個有關書面契約的內容如果有一些違反定型化契約的內容要怎麼樣去處罰的部分"},{"start":5725.293,"end":5742.161,"text":"那我這個考慮到整個跟條文處罰的結構當時我們的條文是只有處委員會在討論的時候主要是針對不管是居家托育人員或者托育機構將來的定型化企業如果有違反的時候都應該要一致能夠"},{"start":5742.941,"end":5764.906,"text":"討論是不是能夠做一致性的處理那我們就把這兩個部分的處罰都統一拉出來單獨用一個條文來做處罰的規定我們條文建議的文字就是第一項規定是針對托育機構所以托育機構訂定書面契約的內容有違反中央主管機關的這些定型化契約範本或者因記載不得記載事項的話會先令改善"},{"start":5767.006,"end":5794.324,"text":"未改善就罰三萬到三十萬元罰款再令限期改善還不改善就罰五萬到五十萬罰則會這個這個屢勸不聽就會罰則會變高那居家托育人員的部分的話也是一樣他如果有違反這個定型化契約書面契約的內容或者違反定型化契約的話那我們這邊就是一樣限期改善未改善的話就是六萬六千以上三萬元以下罰款而且要按次處罰"},{"start":5796.431,"end":5817.583,"text":"我們在罰則上面因為考慮到居家多餘人員的他大概收收的人數大概相對比較小跟機構的情況違規的程度影響程度來看那機構會更嚴相對更嚴重所以我們在罰則上面我們就稍微做了一個層次化的處理以上報告好各位這樣可以吧好可以那我們就照這樣修正通過繼續審查委員會第82條"},{"start":5823.679,"end":5849.889,"text":"林淑芬委員版本草案第八十二條主要是針對違規祭是不是要在草案裡面去這次的法案裡面增加違規祭典的制度那先前我們大概一直討論的時候其實我們一直我們最後討論的方向是我們可以我們把一步一步來建構這樣的違規祭典制但是祭典制到底哪一些行為要祭典"},{"start":5850.549,"end":5869.435,"text":"或者這些行為在違規的時候要記多少點以及違規了以後累積到多少點要有更嚴重的處罰這個現在點式的門檻的部分相對是目前因為是一個新的制度所以那個我們會建議在條文裡面先不明定這個點數的多少"},{"start":5870.796,"end":5887.048,"text":"這個點數的部分就留在這一條的最後一項授權裡面所以我們在最後一項會建議授權事項包括祭典要適用的條款因祭的點數暫停新收託期間以及通知程序廢紙登記的條件等等這些實際上的細節跟祭典的點數的規範"},{"start":5893.773,"end":5910.067,"text":"將來就留在這個授權的辦法裡面來做一個比較可以有比較討論跟確認的空間那將來在執行上面也比較會跟外界來說會更能夠有預期怎麼樣將來行政機關來做處理以上報告"},{"start":5912.017,"end":5939.95,"text":"那這個要放在第幾條?你們調次要自己調整喔?我們大概我們就會這個調次原則上我們會擺在罰則章裡面那現在的調次我們建議就會擺在七七十條大概也是在罰則章的最後一條那調次委員這邊今天如果協商完成的話我們會把調次整個順完因為已經加了很多個條文我們調次要再做整理會到整理"},{"start":5941.01,"end":5966.295,"text":"好 那這樣可以吧那我們就照今天的條文通過繼續審查委員臨時委員臨時委員版本第85條是對於針對本法實行前已經擔任主管人員的一些信賴保護的規定那這個部分的話基本上內容我們是參照林委員版本的條文的內容那第一個是他可以"},{"start":5967.995,"end":5995.911,"text":"包括他的學歷的部分,以及去高考考試資格的部分,這些我們大概都會把他拉進來那這個在母法裡面去把它甄列,做一個比較明確的規範,以上報告來沒有意見那我們就照建立的條文通過,謝謝來接下來是這36個40個,你看手臂的姿勢,那個是正對方是左胸臀肌"},{"start":5997.766,"end":6018.447,"text":"請各位委員看第36條齁這是已通過的案啦齁 那個 欸 衛部這邊要著修文字是不是是好 那請說明跟各位委員報告這個是在委員會已經通過的條文那因為整個條文最後討論完通過以後我們建議在文字上面可以再做一點這個"},{"start":6020.109,"end":6042.154,"text":"前後的條文在對照的時候文字可以更精準所以我們大概修正的地方主要是在第二項的部分那這個前項行為經執行事宣示主管機關依第57條及第64條規定處罰者中央主管機關要建立處罰的資料供政府機關主要是處罰的這兩個字文字做一個修正以上報告"},{"start":6044.463,"end":6045.583,"text":"第40條我們會建議在因為第40條在前面討論的時候第一項已經會"},{"start":6067.232,"end":6093.023,"text":"這個消極資格有增列的居家托育服務中心工作人員也要納入消極資格的管理所以在這裡的話這個也是參主後來在討論的時候我們建議在後面的第二項的文字居家托育服務中心我們跟其他各條的文字用法我們建議把它做成一致就是居家托育服務中心之受托單位"},{"start":6093.883,"end":6112.443,"text":"那把這個文字能夠寫成一字這樣跟各個條文中間將未來在解釋上面的時候比較不會有誤會以上報告好是不是依照行政院所提的文字修正通過好謝謝就照這樣文字修正通過接下來"},{"start":6114.73,"end":6127.531,"text":"最後有一個地方是在先前也是委員會通過的第11條第11條之前已經通過了在文字上面有一些因為"},{"start":6132.152,"end":6157.993,"text":"請說明各位委員報告這個因為在63條委員會11條的法則是在定在63條裡面但是兩邊的文字是有一些不太一致的地方所以我們會建議在第11條的第二項裡面需要做一個文字申列到第二項那就是居家托育人員"},{"start":6158.974,"end":6186.78,"text":"提供居家托育服務期間有暫停收托的需要應該向主管機關申請暫停收托服務那這樣才有辦法跟先前已經討論過的63條的處罰的罰則條文能夠一致所以我們現在把這個我們建議的文字有放在螢幕上面那就請各位委員做一個參考因為63條的部分當時討論的時候已經"},{"start":6188.9,"end":6209.298,"text":"在政策面,各位委員大概都比較一致那有關居家托育人員暫停收托的時候他是需要暫停收托服務的時候,納進去要做處罰那這個暫停收托處罰的部分,在前面11條當時寫的不明確好,各位委員,來,黃正旭,來來,換委員,不要說我叫黃委員,來,這裡三個"},{"start":6220.784,"end":6230.175,"text":"還有一條就是有關於第40條剛剛有著修文字的部分第二項我這邊看到的就是紅色"},{"start":6231.713,"end":6254.17,"text":"由托育機構導出第四行或居家托育服務中心之受托單位可是他的下一行或居家托育服務中心之受委托單位這受托單位還是受委托單位這個是有一致性還是說故意要變成一個受托一個受委托這邊是不是再確認一下"},{"start":6259.956,"end":6265.35,"text":"有看 了解我的意思嗎這是受託 這是受委託 這有一樣的意思嗎"},{"start":6267.814,"end":6291.959,"text":"紅色的就是今天發下來這個對不起跟王委員之間這個我們同仁整理真的時間有一點點急兩邊的文字是應該要一字的那應該是受託單位原來應該是用受託單位後面的那個偽字應該是應該是要刪掉我們可能漏刪了跟委員之間這個是我們做得不精準好那請聽委員"},{"start":6292.839,"end":6310.272,"text":"好 我們先說這個第11條沒有意見但我也是看到第36條第36條是應該建立資料庫 而不是處罰的資料庫不是資料而已資料庫比較完整 是不是 36條倒數第二張"},{"start":6328.385,"end":6342.493,"text":"就是說前項地方政府1.57.64條規定處罰者中央主管機關應建立處罰資料庫供政府機關或經其他經其同意之機構法人或團體查詢是資料庫"},{"start":6345.815,"end":6353.363,"text":"36條就照這樣來修正通過還有剛剛的第11條也是修正通過了好謝謝還有40條也是一樣再修正通過謝謝"},{"start":6366.274,"end":6392.999,"text":"好條文部分已經審訊最後跟召委報告一下我們同仁在最後對條文的時候我們發現第48條已經通過的條文也有漏字的地方可能要補一下所以這個跟召委報告一下我們也是一樣就是我們需要我們同仁剛剛把文字整理在上面也是針對處罰的部分因為要有考慮到"},{"start":6393.999,"end":6423.021,"text":"大概托育機構還有大概都會規範到居托服務中心但是在48條的第三項裡面當時在討論的時候我們漏把文字討論結果漏把文字列進去所以我們有建議是不是可以在這個第48條的第三項裡面那就把這個文字也一併補進去那文字我們建議的寫法就是托育機構或居家托育服務中心受托單位"},{"start":6425.25,"end":6443.075,"text":"對第一項為通報之人員然後以下接到先前討論過的條文主體的部分能夠規範得更嚴謹喔好那這樣子的話第55條也有一個就是說第幾項第55條第幾項"},{"start":6450.219,"end":6479.397,"text":"就依本法第48條或其他法令規定就是最後兩項你們新增了兩項那依本法第46條倒數第二項有那這個小問題就是說應依本法第48條或其他法令規定通報加本法兩個字最後一項因為你前一項有本法後面一項沒有本法啦就是其實就是"},{"start":6481.387,"end":6507.785,"text":"55條的最後一項主席不好意思字體 字啊同意用語你們要不要資料給我們現在一直都找不到資料像剛剛從前面那個在討論都沒有這邊大本的也沒有東西沒有有新的大本的啦新的大本的這個是加本法兩個字而已本法刪掉那你把前一項本法刪掉可以可以"},{"start":6509.229,"end":6532.115,"text":"好,我們先處理剛剛行政單位提出來第48條的文字修正各位如果沒有意見,我們就修正通過然後也請行政單位不要再漏了對啦,然後再來處理55條就那個本法兩個字要一致性,就刪掉了對不對,好各位有沒有其他意見好,沒有其他意見,我們就照這個修正通過好,謝謝"},{"start":6535.514,"end":6555.971,"text":"來 那個條文部分已經審查完畢立法說明如果有需要補充或調整部分授權行政機關處理剛剛有特別提醒到然後本法案相關條項款次條文中援引條項款次以及法制用於調整授權議事人員來做整理好"},{"start":6560.612,"end":6573.96,"text":"我們現在來處理附帶決議既有9案請醫事人員宣讀對不起來請醫事人員也在一併來宣讀增加之一案那現在處理第一案"},{"start":6579.241,"end":6603.717,"text":"附帶決議考量幼兒年齡較小且無行為能力複審著托育相關人員為照顧幼兒常需與其有平凡肢體碰觸其不當對待事件之調查及審議具有特殊性及專業性原審議小組成員之相關領域專家組成比例應據橫頻性定位兼顧調查品質專責人員及調查小組均應接受專業訓練"},{"start":6605.938,"end":6634.818,"text":"請衛生福利部訂定授權辦法使應定名審議小組成員之專家或團體代表比例以均衡各領域之平衡令考量調查人員需具備一定專業與實務經驗並應辦理調查不當對待事件人員及審議小組成員之教育訓練以維護調查及審議之品質兼顧兒童安全、教長權益及托育相關人員之工作權益提案委員林岳請林署委員林署跟王振旭宣讀完畢"},{"start":6636.198,"end":6652.348,"text":"好 各位委員針對復待決議第一案各位有沒有意見第一案是什麼第一案已經宣讀了我們都手上沒資料了有啊你也手上沒有資料啊復待決議是因為那個46條嗎"},{"start":6665.225,"end":6688.123,"text":"46條的好,第一案新單位有沒有意見我們遵照辦理好遵照辦理,各位有沒有意見沒有那我們就照案通過先讀第二案我們直接審第二案,請新單位有意見"},{"start":6694.36,"end":6700.947,"text":"我現在是處理審查會保障,剛剛那是新政的對啊,那個通過了第二份"},{"start":6718.793,"end":6737.482,"text":"這個附帶決議的八項的第一項的部分我們建議這個瓜湖最後一段瓜湖山研議夜間托育攝影規範以下的部分我們建議是不是不列入那這個部分的話"},{"start":6740.609,"end":6762.079,"text":"就第三管整個刪掉是不是對 第三管整個刪掉因為多數的托運中心其實大概沒有夜間服務那我們建議是不是這個部分夜間的部分不列進來但是我們支持是只要這個托運機構它在服務的時間如果這個服務的時間它是少數它是夜間有的話那它應該要錄那這個在"},{"start":6770.368,"end":6794.4,"text":"我們建議是不是我們在前面你現在幾乎全台灣託金中心都沒有月間所以就直接刪掉就好了不用去考慮那個好不好好我們針對這案就是把第三款刪掉各位有沒有其他意見"},{"start":6796.345,"end":6815.934,"text":"沒有 那我們就照這樣修正後通過來繼續審查第二項的部分我們可以完全遵照辦理好 請大家遵照辦理那檢察委員有沒有其他意見沒有 我們就照樣通過繼續審查"},{"start":6819.581,"end":6840.265,"text":"第三案第三案遵照辦理遵照 今天遵照辦理 各位有沒有其他意見沒有 我們就召喚通過 繼續審查第四案第四案遵照辦理好 各位有沒有其他意見沒有 我們就召喚通過 繼續審查第五案第五案的部分我們建議文字是不是可以稍作調整在這個資料的"},{"start":6846.897,"end":6863.023,"text":"在倒數第二行的後段就是定期追蹤檢查的部分我們建議是不是把定期追蹤檢查修正為抽查"},{"start":6865.164,"end":6893.726,"text":"好來請文委員是不是可以請文委員表示意見我不太贊成這樣的修正因為它其實就是把資料上到雲端那雲端它是隨時只要可以的話它應該是列為定期追蹤檢查而不是用抽查的方式那這個對於我們的這些行政同仁或怎麼樣其實沒有增加任何的負擔那你用抽查的話"},{"start":6894.526,"end":6922.753,"text":"反而會造成一些困惑或困難就好像一個廁所洗手間他們的檢查應該都是定期的在處理他不會用抽查的方式這個是已經記存的雲端資料真的是不需要用抽查的方式我們只是要確定確定他是有依照需要把這個資料上到雲端以上再請斟酌這可以吧可以啊"},{"start":6924.314,"end":6951.829,"text":"抽草你是要多久抽一次你會把抽草辦法定出來好那我們遵照辦理就遵照辦理好謝謝那我們照案通過繼續審查第六案前段有沒有意見第六案的部分我們會建議這個也是一樣那在前段的部分有"},{"start":6953.223,"end":6958.294,"text":"提到在第四行的前段"},{"start":6966.1,"end":6988.597,"text":"定期前往托育機構隨機抽查的這一句我們建議是不是定期跟隨機這兩個這兩個詞我們建議是不是可以就不納入進來然後在後面有關委員提到的抽查比例我們建議是不是可以先不納入"},{"start":6990.953,"end":7009.559,"text":"在接下來最後的有關異常通報的部分我們建議異常通報流程是不是可以修正為異常通報處理我們大概有幾個文字修正的建議徵詢各位委員看看是不是可行"},{"start":7011.64,"end":7028.328,"text":"第一個大概前段我不同意因為剛剛前面王振勳那邊委員那邊就在講到你們把它定期你把它改抽查那你們自己就還要去改抽查那為什麼這時候如果這個定期我還是建議要納入還有另外一個就是"},{"start":7030.228,"end":7053.573,"text":"隨機不能夠明擺著我什麼時候要去抽查所以我們希望是隨機後邊我不知道就是說如果就是那個通報跟通報處理跟通報流程有什麼差別就是整個還是一個流程那抽查比例我非常堅持所以我還是維持我的原意那我們遵照辦理好遵照辦理那我們就召喚通過繼續審查第七案"},{"start":7054.999,"end":7074.928,"text":"第七案的部分我們想希望能夠跟委員爭取一下就是這個在第三行的部分以本法三讀後三個月內這個部分是不是可以容許我們這個本法三讀後三個月內這個幾個部分是不是可以不要列進來"},{"start":7076.609,"end":7103.464,"text":"因為這次修完以後其實真的要我們大概整個盤點了一下包括要新訂的法規命令跟公告或者是相關制度大概有二十幾項那這個時間確實是會比較長所以我們想跟委員爭取一下這個部分是不是可以不要三個月因為今天提案的國情不在所以我就覺得就看你們因為他也沒在跟我"},{"start":7104.224,"end":7120.892,"text":"因為當時在委員會討論的時候當時是說大概我們估計整個大概這一類的審核法規我們推估大概差不多會需要一年的時間一年那就整個刪掉就好了那整個刪掉好了來啦 好不好好 謝謝我們就就這樣修正後通過繼續審查第八案"},{"start":7122.988,"end":7147.355,"text":"第八案的部分我們會建議在中間這一段的部分是不是可以文字再做一點點處理的空間我們翻到最後一頁後段第三行開始第三行後面原址這邊開始我們是建議"},{"start":7149.295,"end":7176.65,"text":"要求行政主管機關於托育服務案件之後我們加幾個改幾個字這個原來的進入審議程序前的跟後面的刮糊我們建議這一段我們文字是不是知調查審議結果我們就把它簡化一點然後後面接到原來這個決議的內容因保障與事件"},{"start":7178.186,"end":7194.946,"text":"然後直接利害關係當事人因為我們建議這個term是不是可以跟我們已經通過的法律條文做一個調整修正為實際照顧之人或其法定代理人"},{"start":7196.997,"end":7218.447,"text":"然後依法後面得拿掉就是依法提供載明事實及理由之審查結果拿來替換委員的這個決議裡面提到的申請調閱完整調查報告內容就是提供載明事實理由的審議結果修正成這樣那最後這個有關"},{"start":7221.328,"end":7235.597,"text":"依個人資料保護法及相關規定辦理去識別化或者適當遮蔽的話我們就簡化一點就直接依照個人資料保護法來辦理那最後一句這個"},{"start":7237.618,"end":7252.519,"text":"主管機關並應檢討並建立托育服務案件調查之程序與作業原則報告和調閱這兩個字我們今天是不是做一個文字的調整以上建議"},{"start":7254.281,"end":7277.322,"text":"我只有兩個同意就是加那個實際照顧之人還有就相關辦法其他的不同意的理由是本來我們一直在處理又而言不當對待最大的困難就是席位人可以看到完整的報告講什麼對方講什麼我這邊講什麼那為什麼受害者的家屬事實上反而看不到任何的報告你最後一個審議結果就是說我最後事實上是"},{"start":7277.762,"end":7305.517,"text":"怎麼樣到底這歷程是這樣甚至我家長講的話帶型孩子講的話甚至看到事實都不能看到這些內容所以我不同意所以當時我們為什麼會寫成這樣是有它背後的緣由在所以我僅同意就是說要加變成是真因為跟法條的其他的法條就是說這個耳朵法的前面要講實際照顧之人我覺得這OK後面不要最致用相關規定"},{"start":7307.678,"end":7327.926,"text":"來辦理那OK其他的就按照我原來提的以上跟委員報告一下我們建議做這樣的一個文字調整主要思考就是當時在委員會討論的時候其實對於這個調查跟審議或者是未來出來的報告的部分那當時最後討論的結果是說我們會未來在這個審議結果"},{"start":7334.629,"end":7361.07,"text":"會參考目前教育部的做法這個審議結果裡面我們會完整的去記載這個審議的這個結果的事實跟它成立或者不成立的理由所以我們我們是之所以用審議結果是目的是去跟現在討論過的這個這個討論過的條文去做一個呼應啦大概是做這樣的一個的想法大概就做這樣的報告"},{"start":7361.69,"end":7385.613,"text":"第一個上次在這個討論的時候你前面在談法條的時候剛好不在所以後來我為什麼會去補這個附帶決議原因在這邊第二個事實上是教育部這個我就已經覺得不OK了因為可是他們當初幼照法在弄後來相關辦法在處理的時候後來在執行的時候的確就出現這些問題很多時候幼兒園的家長事實上拿不到他孩子不當對待的調查的結"},{"start":7387.054,"end":7409.619,"text":"只能拿到结果说他一或是什么样子会向对方采取可是我就说我不太理解就行为人为什么可以看到完整报告可是受害者不能看到完整的报告甚至我家长讲了什么表达了什么对方讲什么可是行为人可以看到完整的可是受害者那受害者我家长讲了什么话为什么你到底怎么写的所以我过去看"},{"start":7410.419,"end":7438.657,"text":"我們是認定委員會看到完整報告跟家仁看到不太一樣那對方講的話有時候就是不是事實的時候家仁也沒辦法反駁甚至有時候可能是誤偏了因為議員透過議員後來家仁拿到一些報告根本家仁說這些講的話都不是他講的那怎麼會再登載這樣那這些報告就會讓讓我們認定委員會去認定我覺得這就會變成說不對等的關係所以我不同意這樣子改所以我希望維持原意"},{"start":7440.338,"end":7441.698,"text":"這就照林委員建議這樣修正通過可以嗎"},{"start":7468.875,"end":7482.709,"text":"好 遵照辦理好 那文字我們就照剛剛林月行為所提的這樣修正來做通過好 謝謝好 現在宣告以下的協商結論"},{"start":7487.854,"end":7505.987,"text":"第一 協商通過條文如附件一第二 保留送院會 對不起沒有沒有來我們再重新宣讀協商結論第一 協商通過條文如附件一第二 通過審查會保留附帶決議八項如附件二"},{"start":7506.787,"end":7527.864,"text":"新增附帶局一項如附件三其餘均照審查會審查結果通過檢討全案名稱章次、章名、條次、條文、立法說明如附件四好那我們從去年各位聆聽一下這是很嚴肅的事情114年5月19號我們再為委員會宣達一次然後審查六次好"},{"start":7535.609,"end":7555.919,"text":"再重來 不要笑 要嚴肅一點這114年5月29日就排案巡打了一次然後經過六次的審查114年12月22日出委員會那現在歷經了三次的協商總算在今天115年3月27日正式協商完成"},{"start":7557.341,"end":7565.722,"text":"期待我們可以在4月4號兒童節完成三讀通過送給全國的兒童最高的保障"},{"start":7572.231,"end":7585.183,"text":"謝謝各位委員謝謝部長 謝謝署長還有謝謝我們列席的相關的官員還有我們最美麗的華務的 國部的汪參事好 今天都沒有讓你講到話好 謝謝然後牌子 快點來"},{"start":7588.243,"end":7590.644,"text":"那些網友也拖來,要去哪裡?要去哪裡?"},{"start":7613.559,"end":7615.96,"text":"晚安 晚安 晚安 晚安 晚安"},{"start":7638.175,"end":7638.455,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":7653.234,"end":7655.695,"text":"吃了這麼多次不要忘記找到來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來"},{"start":7681.705,"end":7685.408,"text":"獻給全國的兒童兒童節快樂獻給全國的兒童兒童節快樂"},{"start":7720.845,"end":7730.987,"text":"請各黨團來簽名之後就散會了,謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:08:35.048000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:08:38.669000+08:00","text":"現在協商會議開始，我們來進行兒托法的協商。","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:10:42.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:11:01.156000+08:00","text":"本案提報院會併案審查報告，保留條文計有 22 條，另有保留附帶決議 8 案，經前兩次協商，\n尚有保留條文 10 條及衛福部提出已通過條文酌修文字案 2 條，目前附帶決議增加 1 案，計有 9\n案。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:11:02.057000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:11:09.944000+08:00","text":"本案具有專業性，希望今日各保留條文儘量協商通過，請各位委員綜合考量，衛福部也隨\n時溝通。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:11:10.664000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:11:19.091000+08:00","text":"今天進行的方式仍是請衛福部先做說明，再請各位委員提出意見，最後彙綜協商結論\n，請各黨團簽名。","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:11:20.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:11:31.211000+08:00","text":"衛福部提出的相關條文建議放在各位委員的桌上，請大家參閱，大家應該都\n有這一本，謝謝。","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:11:31.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:11:38.420000+08:00","text":"現在就針對第三十九條，我們是不是請衛福部先做說明？","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:11:38.420000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:12:13.007000+08:00","text":"第三十九條主要是托育人員相關消極資格的要件，根據先前在委員會討論的整個結果\n，主要的差別有幾個：第一個是適用的對象除了會擴及到第一線的工作人員，也會增加居家托\n育服務中心的工作人員。","quality":0.131},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:12:13.007000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:12:36.284000+08:00","text":"第二個，在有消極資格事由的部分，我們增列了召委先前在委員會討\n論時有提案的部分，因為曾犯動保法最嚴重這一類對於動物的罪行，可能連帶的在性格上面或\n行為上面對於這個托育的小朋友會有一些潛在的風險，所以我們把這個部分增列進來，以上。沒有。","quality":0.645},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:12:36.284000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:12:47.160000+08:00","text":"384\n立法院公報 第 115 卷 第 25 期 黨團協商紀錄","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:12:47.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:12:49.042000+08:00","text":"第三十九條是不是照建議條文通過？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:12:49.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:12:49.142000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:12:49.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:12:49.782000+08:00","text":"繼續審查第五十五條，請行政單位說明。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:12:56.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:13:16.144000+08:00","text":"接下來是要協商的第五十五條，第五十五條是有關照顧爭議的部分，先前主要是院版\n條文在整個照顧爭議的流程跟範圍的部分，在經過各位委員的討論跟指教之後有比較清楚，我\n們把這個條文做了重整。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:13:16.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:13:37.678000+08:00","text":"第一個，對這一類的事件我們統一就名稱的部分把它定為「照顧爭議\n」，也參考了各位委員的意見，首先是調處的部分，未來如果有這一類的照顧爭議，我們可以\n由直轄市、縣（市）政府來進行調處，調處是以一次為原則，把它定位為一個在訴訟外協助解\n決爭端的做法。","quality":0.802},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:13:41.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:14:00.632000+08:00","text":"我們這一次在建議條文的第五項規定，在調處過程中如果發現有嚴重的違規行\n為，包括虐兒、霸凌這一類案件的時候，我們就要把調處的程序停下來。","quality":0.869},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:14:01.332000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:14:17.183000+08:00","text":"調處停下來之後，就\n是回到相關的條文，由地方政府對於這一類嚴重的違規行為進行查處、查證和處罰，我們在後\n面的第五項和第六項做了這樣的文字處理，以上報告。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:14:24.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:14:28.720000+08:00","text":"現在這個修正版本就是藍色的那一項，對不對？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:14:31.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:14:36.669000+08:00","text":"就是最後一項是「同一事實以調處一\n次為原則」。對。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:14:36.669000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:14:47.033000+08:00","text":"但是這個立法說明欄裡面有沒有寫到調處不成立之後要走訴訟，不是訴願，有沒有寫\n？","quality":1},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:14:47.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:14:52.576000+08:00","text":"這個部分我們會配合在協商確定之後，條文的說明欄我們會把它補完整。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:14:53.197000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:14:55.038000+08:00","text":"我想就是要列入紀錄……","quality":1},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:14:55.038000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:14:57.079000+08:00","text":"現在在溝通的時候，這個我們會來處理。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:14:57.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:15:10.728000+08:00","text":"調處不成立之後，不是走訴願，而是走訴訟，這個要寫清楚，因為怕使用法律的人看\n不懂我們立法的意旨，所以就這樣，如果會寫進去就 OK。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:15:10.728000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:15:12.152000+08:00","text":"好，我們配合。可以。","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:15:12.152000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:15:13.576000+08:00","text":"我們會後……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:15:13.576000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:15:15+08:00","text":"要加那個喔！好的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:15:15+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:15:19.561000+08:00","text":"第五十五條就照建議的這個條文通過，那個文字是不是你們要去做修正？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:15:24.942000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:15:25.803000+08:00","text":"說明欄，我們會……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:15:25.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:15:26.023000+08:00","text":"對，說明欄。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:15:26.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:15:26.183000+08:00","text":"我們會在說明欄補充。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:15:26.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:15:27.363000+08:00","text":"第五十五條就照建議的條文通過。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:15:27.363000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:15:46.814000+08:00","text":"繼續審查林淑芬委員的第六十三條。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:15:46.814000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:15:47.814000+08:00","text":"385\n立法院公報 第 115 卷 第 25 期 黨團協商紀錄","quality":0},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:15:46.994000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:15:54.117000+08:00","text":"林淑芬委員版本的第六十三條，在討論過之後，參酌各委員的討論意見，我們在文字\n上做了一個整理。","quality":0.659},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:15:54.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:16:10.366000+08:00","text":"第一個，在第一項的序文部分，托育人員在托育服務時間內，要在托育服務\n處所專心做托育的動作，讓整個行為的要求、義務的範圍更明確。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:16:10.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:16:30.030000+08:00","text":"第二個，增列第二項，就是\n居家托育人員如果因為緊急事件需要離開處所，要通知居托中心或法定代理人或實際照顧兒童\n之人，要安排相關人員協助臨時照顧受托兒童。","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:16:31.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:16:47.894000+08:00","text":"這樣才能夠比較有完整的照顧上的銜接，也才\n能夠確保受托兒童照顧上的安全，所以我們增列第二項的文字，以上。沒有。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:16:51.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:17:01.058000+08:00","text":"我這邊有建議加一個文字，就是最後一段，協助臨時照顧收托兒童後，始得離開。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:17:01.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:17:01.478000+08:00","text":"可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:17:01.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:17:02.579000+08:00","text":"就是第二項最後面嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:17:02.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:17:03.699000+08:00","text":"對，就是協助臨時照顧受托兒童後，始得離開。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:17:03.699000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:17:04.699000+08:00","text":"協助臨時照顧受托兒童後，始得離開。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:17:04.099000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:17:04.739000+08:00","text":"這樣子會不會變成失去彈性？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:17:04.899000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:17:06.600000+08:00","text":"會不會有什麼假設的狀況我們沒有辦法想像的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:17:16.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:17:18.155000+08:00","text":"這個跟什麼假設完全沒有關係啊！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:17:18.155000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:17:22.318000+08:00","text":"這是協助臨時照顧受托兒童後，始得離開。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:17:22.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:17:25.620000+08:00","text":"好，沒關係，我沒有很具體的意見，只是有沒有什麼假設的狀況啦！","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:17:25.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:17:28.342000+08:00","text":"沒有的話，我沒\n意見。","quality":1},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:17:28.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:17:31.024000+08:00","text":"我想召委的建議是……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-27T12:17:35.327000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:17:43.793000+08:00","text":"跟召委及各位委員說明，因為開頭就寫了「居家托育人員因緊急事件離開前項處所前\n」。","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:17:46.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:17:49.420000+08:00","text":"有時候要上救護車……","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-27T12:17:49.420000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:17:51.481000+08:00","text":"他在離開前就要做完了啦！","quality":0.182},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:17:51.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:17:56.104000+08:00","text":"好，那就不用，離開前項處所前……","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-27T12:17:58.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:18:01.207000+08:00","text":"對，就是離開前，跟召委的意思是一樣，那裡要有人才能走。","quality":0.478},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:18:02.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:18:04.970000+08:00","text":"好，那就不用增加，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:18:05.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:18:06.010000+08:00","text":"各位委員有沒有其他意見？沒有。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:18:06.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:18:08.512000+08:00","text":"沒有，我們就照建議條文通過。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:18:08.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:18:13.887000+08:00","text":"繼續審查第六十條，這個有跟第三十八條、第三十九條保留連動，請行政單位做說明。","quality":0.588},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:18:13.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:18:40.191000+08:00","text":"第六十條是屬於已經進入罰則的部分，當時保留是因為和第三十八條、第三十九條的\n條文保留有連動關係，第三十八條跟第三十九條目前的構成要件，文字都已經確定了，我們也\n配合在文字上面去做了一個處理。","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:18:40.811000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:19:01.673000+08:00","text":"第一個是有關項次跟文字的部分，我們除了在第二款有重新\n做處理以外；其次，我們在第二項有配合第三十八條、第三十九條增列相關處罰的規定。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:19:05.016000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:19:20.267000+08:00","text":"處罰\n的態樣，第一種是聘僱現職的工作人員，有這些重大的違規情形，應該要終止契約，但是沒有\n終止契約，或者是應該要命令這些居托中心工作人員停止職務。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:19:21.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:19:29.412000+08:00","text":"有違反這樣的行為時，就配合\n第三十八條、第三十九條已經通過的條文增列相關的處罰規定。以上。","quality":0.775},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:19:29.412000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:19:31.252000+08:00","text":"386\n立法院公報 第 115 卷 第 25 期 黨團協商紀錄","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:19:31.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:19:37.575000+08:00","text":"好，行政單位的說明，各位委員有沒有其他意見？","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:19:37.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:19:54.553000+08:00","text":"我抱怨一下，我們整部法律審這麼久，都踩得這麼嚴格，人家現在開放外籍幫傭也可\n以顧小孩，有緊急的事情時他有沒有等到有人手幫助時才離開？","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:19:54.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:20:08.177000+08:00","text":"我們也不知道，其他規定事項\n有沒有遵守也不知道，然後本國的這一些保母規定得這麼嚴格、居家托育這麼嚴格，結果外籍\n的來了完全都不用管。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:20:09.692000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:20:14.595000+08:00","text":"我有時候覺得我們審這部法律有必要這麼嚴格嗎？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:20:14.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:20:20.258000+08:00","text":"好，抱歉，我只是抱\n怨而已，我講完了，謝謝。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:20:20.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:20:20.698000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝，下禮拜應該還能再討論。","quality":0.385},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:20:22.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:20:23.280000+08:00","text":"各位，有沒有其他意見？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:20:25.048000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:20:28.450000+08:00","text":"沒有，我們就照建議條文通過\n。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:20:28.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:20:31.353000+08:00","text":"繼續審查第六十四條，請行政單位說明。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:20:31.793000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:20:51.268000+08:00","text":"第六十四條的部分，大概有兩個調整的地方，第一個是增列有這些行為時，條文所要\n規範的對象，在托育相關人員後面增列「居家托育服務中心工作人員」，這是在這一項最開頭\n的部分，把它增列進來。","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:20:51.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:21:11.316000+08:00","text":"第二個，也考慮到如果要公布機構名稱，因為霸凌、性騷擾、不當管\n教等，其實行為態樣非常地寬，所以也參酌了當時在討論的內容，在情節輕微的部分，是直接\n依照前面通過的第三十九條來做相關的處理。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:21:12.036000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:21:14.477000+08:00","text":"以上報告。沒有。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:21:14.497000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:21:20.025000+08:00","text":"沒有，我們就照建議條文通過。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:21:20.665000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:21:23.066000+08:00","text":"繼續審查第六十六條，請行政單位說明。","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:21:23.867000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:21:52.491000+08:00","text":"第六十六條主要調整的部分是搭配：第一個，剛才前面林淑芬委員版本的第六十三條\n專心托育的部分，他要我們配合去增列相關的罰則，我們現在把這個罰則增列在第三款，原來\n行政院版草案條文第三款以下的款次就往後移列。","quality":0.798},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:21:53.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:22:08.603000+08:00","text":"第二個，第六款也配合前面審查的條文，將\n居家托育人員要去投保的構成要件文字，配合前面通過的條文做一個調整。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:22:12.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:22:30.214000+08:00","text":"另外，也跟主席報告一下，我們同仁在整理時發現了另外一個地方，在今天的資料上面，我\n們是剛剛最後對的時候才發現，建議文字是不是也一併做處理？","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:22:31.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:23:03.284000+08:00","text":"就是在這一條的第一款「違反\n第十一條第四項規定，規避、妨礙或拒絕直轄市、縣（市）主管機關之監督」，因為我們在第\n十一條裡面，對於檢查或者去查核的權限，除了主管機關之外，先前在討論的時候還有增列居\n家托育服務中心，所以我們建議在第一款的文字裡面再去補充。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:23:04.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:23:26.702000+08:00","text":"也就是在這一款的第二行「直\n轄市、縣（市）主管機關」之後增列「及居家托育服務中心」9 個字，然後再接到原來我們的建\n議文字「之監督，或於檢查時藉故藏匿兒童」，這樣將來構成要件會更加明確跟完整。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:23:27.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:23:31.006000+08:00","text":"這個我\n們剛剛在整理的時候才發現，也跟各位委員致歉。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:23:32.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:23:36.083000+08:00","text":"好，針對第六十六條，各位委員有沒有其他意見？沒有。","quality":0.619},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:23:36.083000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:23:37.945000+08:00","text":"如果沒有，我們就照修正後通過。","quality":1},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:23:37.945000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:23:40.071500+08:00","text":"需要宣讀一下嗎？","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-27T12:23:40.071500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:23:42.198000+08:00","text":"宣讀一下。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-27T12:23:42.198000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:23:44.324500+08:00","text":"387\n立法院公報 第 115 卷 第 25 期 黨團協商紀錄","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:23:44.324500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:23:46.451000+08:00","text":"修正意見嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:23:46.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:24:07.686000+08:00","text":"好，第六十六條的部分，除了我們建議的文字之外，我就只宣讀第一款的部分「違反\n第十一條第四項規定，規避、妨礙或拒絕直轄市、縣（市）主管機關及居家托育服務中心之監\n督，或於檢查時藉故藏匿兒童。」以上。","quality":0.916},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:24:08.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:24:11.149000+08:00","text":"好，修正文字，大家沒有意見吧？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:24:11.829000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:24:12.450000+08:00","text":"（無）我們就修正通過。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:24:13.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:24:13.190000+08:00","text":"繼續審查第六十七條，請……","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:24:13.190000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:24:14.636000+08:00","text":"在審查第六十七……","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:24:14.636000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:24:16.082000+08:00","text":"第六十六條有新增一個，是不是？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:24:16.082000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:24:17.528000+08:00","text":"抱歉，剛才那一條，我再問一下。是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:24:17.528000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:24:20.869000+08:00","text":"就是大樓管理員要求先換證或者要先打電話，才能夠看對方要不要讓他們進去，這樣\n子有沒有規避、妨礙處所的檢查？","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:24:38.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:24:39.359000+08:00","text":"大樓管理員，這很普遍喔！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:24:39.359000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:24:45.120000+08:00","text":"因為這一次在修正條文會包括任何人不得妨礙、規避或拒絕，所以大樓管理員就會被\n納進來……沒有！","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:24:45.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:24:48.121000+08:00","text":"我是講行為，這個行為有沒有算規避？","quality":1},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:24:49.041000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:24:49.241000+08:00","text":"可以算。","quality":1},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:24:50.122000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:24:53.462000+08:00","text":"如果有需要，未來在通過之後，我們會透過函釋更明確來規定。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:24:53.802000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:25:09.567000+08:00","text":"就是大樓管理員說：你是縣政府來的或你是居托中心的，但是你等一下，我要問一下\n我的業主、屋主同不同意你上去，然後要求你等，等他們同意才能上去。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:25:10.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:25:12.589000+08:00","text":"這樣算不算規避、妨\n礙檢查？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:25:13.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:25:15.692000+08:00","text":"我們在這裡的構成要件可能要講清楚。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:25:16.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:25:49.365000+08:00","text":"我們現在的想法就是，不管是縣（市）政府或者是居家托育服務中心，對於場所的檢\n查，其中會包含這種不事先告知的檢查，如果檢查人員已經明確告知大樓管理人員，而大樓人\n員還是拒絕的話，我們未來會透過正式的函釋來處理，把這種行為態樣列為所謂的規避、妨礙\n、拒絕的行為。對！","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:25:49.365000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:25:50.085000+08:00","text":"這個要講清楚。","quality":1},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:25:50.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:25:54.549000+08:00","text":"我們未來可以透過法規的解釋，把這樣的態樣列進來。好。","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:25:54.549000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:25:59.253000+08:00","text":"正常來講，大廈管理員就不能凌駕公務員的公權力之上。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:26:01.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:26:02.597000+08:00","text":"但是很多人會沒有這個認知。","quality":1},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:26:02.597000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:26:03.719000+08:00","text":"因為有明確表達執行公權力的時候，我們會用函釋補充。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:26:03.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:26:11.612000+08:00","text":"所以你會特別說明，並有一個函釋給這些公寓大廈相關的管理單位應該是比較好。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:26:11.612000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:26:15.642000+08:00","text":"好，第六十六條就照修正通過。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:26:15.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:26:17.303000+08:00","text":"另外，第六十六條後面有一個新增的條文。","quality":0.588},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:26:17.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:26:49.241000+08:00","text":"是，這個條文就是回應剛才林淑芬委員所提到的問題，因為在第十一條第四項有規範\n388\n立法院公報 第 115 卷 第 25 期 黨團協商紀錄\n到任何人不可以規避、妨礙或拒絕這一類的檢查，其實嚴格來說，應該是在這個條文裡面，將\n來是用這個條文去解釋、去處理，也是要回應這樣的狀況。","quality":0.791},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:26:49.241000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:26:53.942000+08:00","text":"所以我們建議增列一個條文，把這\n樣的狀況列進來，我們會來做相對應條次的整理，以上報告。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T12:27:01.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:27:15.229000+08:00","text":"所以這裡講的任何人是包含……因為我們目前接到好幾個是有時候管委會自己要阻撓\n，並不是保母本身，他們就是不讓他上去，所以以後也會罰到管委會，這樣嗎？","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-27T12:27:16.237000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:27:18.839000+08:00","text":"用這一條。好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:27:19.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:27:35.091000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，因為我們現在處罰的時候，會有處罰的對象，有些是工作人員或者是機\n構，我們在條文裡面都會寫得很明白，不屬於這些卻有明確介入的，我們就會通通把他列到任\n何人，所以像大樓管理員就會列到這邊來。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:27:35.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:27:35.211000+08:00","text":"好，這樣可以吧？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:27:42.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:27:45.235000+08:00","text":"針對這個部分照建議的條文通過。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:27:45.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:27:46.576000+08:00","text":"我們繼續審查第六十七條，請行政單位做說明。","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:27:50.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:28:01.894000+08:00","text":"第六十七條的部分，主要也是要搭配原來第十八條有關企業托育未經核准招收的罰則\n部分。","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:28:08.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:29:02.451000+08:00","text":"這一條條文後面原來只有一項，我們會建議再增列一項，包括在先前討論時候的幾種態\n樣：第一個，針對如果居家托育中心、托育服務中心工作人員沒有依照第四十八條規定通報，\n或者居家托育服務中心聘僱工作人員的時候，沒有先辦理到職前或聘僱後是不是有消極資格的\n查詢；以及在第四十九條第四項規定，聘僱之工作人員有聘僱以外之異動，沒有報主管機關備\n查，這個部分搭配先前條文草案的討論，我們在這邊增訂一項相關的罰則。以上。","quality":0.831},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:29:13.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:29:44.188000+08:00","text":"前幾天有個新聞，就是臺中光田醫院新設托嬰中心，對外一直說是院內員工福利，它\n的名額有限，很多工作人員還在排隊等托嬰中心，結果他們發現不是裡面員工親戚的小孩，利\n用特權特別處理送進來、插隊，而合格員工的小孩要排隊、不能收托。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:29:45.688000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:29:54.070000+08:00","text":"所以我們一直在講這個\n事情到底要不要有罰則，如果沒有罰則的話就是這個樣子，而且應該是蠻普遍的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:29:56.371000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:29:58.191000+08:00","text":"罰輕罰重，\n但不能沒有罰吧！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:29:59.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:30:02.132000+08:00","text":"因為當時這個就是以標榜照顧員工、勞工福祉為核心。","quality":1},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:30:10.092000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:30:25.379000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們現在沒有把這個樣態處罰的條文列在第六十七條裡面，當時在委員\n會審查的時候，我們的想法是其實不管是企業管理或有一些想法……","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:30:25.379000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:30:38.106000+08:00","text":"我知道，我們已經講很多遍了，這個東西已經討論很多遍。","quality":0.174},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:30:38.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:30:58.116000+08:00","text":"因為像這樣的情況，畢竟還是一個收托行為的順序問題，我們建議是不是擺在……等\n一下可以徵詢一下各位委員的意見，是不是可以擺在第七十條的部分，就是用限期改善，不改\n善再處罰的方式來處理？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:30:59.437000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:31:00.977000+08:00","text":"第六十七條是直接處罰再改善……可以。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:31:01.537000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:31:04.839000+08:00","text":"我們順序上面調動。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:31:05.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:31:13.122000+08:00","text":"至少你有規勸以後必須要改善，不改善就要處罰，因為沒有罰則的話，就等於形同虛\n設。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:31:13.402000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:31:13.803000+08:00","text":"為什麼這樣子？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:31:13.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:31:36.836000+08:00","text":"是因為現在企業裡面附設的這一些設施，大多數都是勞動部有補助、有拿\n公部門的資源，所以應該是要有罰則的，你說先限期改善，之後不改善再處罰，或許可以，看\n389\n立法院公報 第 115 卷 第 25 期 黨團協商紀錄\n你們怎麼設計。好。","quality":0.784},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:31:38.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:31:42.380000+08:00","text":"第六十七條就照建議條文通過。","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:31:43.982000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:31:47.644000+08:00","text":"繼續調整一下，剛剛講增列那個部分看文字怎麼修。好。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:31:53.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:32:16.954000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，第七十條的部分主要是針對前面所提到的，包括前面有條文在保留和增\n訂，先前在委員會討論違反定型化契約的罰則，定型化契約要罰則的處罰，我們在這邊有處理\n，把它列進來。","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:32:17.194000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:32:38.644000+08:00","text":"第二個，在原來通過條文第十五條的部分，居家托育人員跟家長簽約以後，書\n面契約的影本要給居家托育服務中心，這個部分我們也配合先前討論的結果，把罰則列進來。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:32:38.644000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:33:04.124000+08:00","text":"另外，第三十四條也一樣，托育機構的托育人員配置，跟收托兒童配置情形的部分，這一點應\n該是林月琴委員先前在托育機構要揭露資料的部分，我們把這個部分的罰則列到第七十條來。","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:33:04.484000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:33:12.131000+08:00","text":"第七十條處罰的結構是它要先限期改善，屆期未改善的話，罰則就是 6,000 到 3 萬元以下。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:33:13.071000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:34:03.557000+08:00","text":"剛才\n跟林委員報告第十八條的部分，我們剛才給委員的資料裡面還沒有列進來，我們有準備條文的\n文字版本，現在有放在螢幕上面，我簡單先宣讀一下，我們建議是不是可以在這裡增列第三款\n「托育機構未依第十八條第四項規定，報經直轄市、縣（市）主管機關核准而招收其他兒童」\n，搭配原來討論的第十八條第四項，它如果招收自己企業員工以外其他兒童，要先報經主管機\n關核准，如果沒報經核准就限期改善，沒有改善就處罰，大概用這樣的條文結構來做條文設計\n，以上說明。","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:34:03.557000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:34:13.721000+08:00","text":"這執行上會不會有問題？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:34:13.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:34:27.817000+08:00","text":"現在的狀況是你要優先收托自己企業內兒童，如果要收企業\n外，你要先報核准，企業內優先，沒有的話要報核准。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:34:30.101000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:34:32.665000+08:00","text":"第十八條第四項是我有餘額，報核准後，可收外面其他兒童。","quality":0.417},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:34:33.867000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:34:37.093000+08:00","text":"不曉得地方政府知不知道它有沒有餘額？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:34:37.093000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:34:41.460000+08:00","text":"搞不好沒有餘額，人家還在排隊，它還是往\n上報了，怎麼辦？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-27T12:34:41.460000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:34:45.221000+08:00","text":"如果被檢舉，發現後就撤銷許可。","quality":0},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:34:45.221000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:34:59.890000+08:00","text":"現行在管理上送到托育機構的部分，因為家長領有托育補助，所以我們現在在行政管\n理上，哪些小朋友在哪個幼稚園……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:34:59.890000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:35:00.890000+08:00","text":"那我們有沒有罰則？","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:35:00.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:35:01.831000+08:00","text":"他們裡面的人數，我們系統上其實目前是勾稽的到。","quality":0.524},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:35:03.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:35:27.530000+08:00","text":"我的意思是這個罰則要不要……如果發現它還有員工的子女排隊等著收托，卻跟縣政\n府申報有餘額，縣政府許可了，如果有這種狀況的話，我們就禁止它再收托多久，需要這樣寫\n嗎？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:35:29.251000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:35:43.562000+08:00","text":"我們這樣寫構成要件的想法其實跟委員方向一樣，因為它一定是要有餘額才能收其他\n兒童，所以開始叫它限改的時候，就是要求它要去報主管機關核准，一定是收了其他……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:35:45.263000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:35:45.704000+08:00","text":"「餘額」兩個字還在嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:35:45.704000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:35:48.426000+08:00","text":"在第十八條有餘額的部分，文字是在的。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:35:48.426000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:35:49.426000+08:00","text":"390\n立法院公報 第 115 卷 第 25 期 黨團協商紀錄","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:35:48.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:35:50.227000+08:00","text":"好，我知道了，可以，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:35:52.623000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:35:53.584000+08:00","text":"第七十條，我們就修正通過。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:35:53.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:36:09.267000+08:00","text":"繼續審查委員林淑芬第八十二條……對不起，第七十條後面還有個新增的條文，是不是？","quality":0.735},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:36:09.487000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:36:25.713000+08:00","text":"是，在七十條後面有一個新增的條文，先前委員會討論的時候，對於有關書面契約的\n內容，如果有違反定型化契約的內容要怎麼樣去處罰的部分。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:36:27.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:36:52.903000+08:00","text":"考慮整個跟條文處罰的結構，當\n時條文在委員會討論的時候，主要是針對不管是居家托育人員或者托育機構，將來如果有違反\n定型化契約的時候，討論是不是能夠做一致性的處理，我們就把兩個部分的處罰統一拉出來，\n單獨用一個條文來做處罰的規定。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:36:54.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:37:18.393000+08:00","text":"我們條文建議的文字是，第一項規定是針對托育機構，托育機構訂定書面契約的內容有違反\n中央主管機關的這些定型化契約範本，或者應記載不得記載事項的話，會先令改善，屆期未改\n善就罰 3 萬到 30 萬元罰款；經再次令限期改善，還不改善就罰 5 萬到 50 萬，屢勸不聽罰則會\n變高。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:37:19.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:37:35.324000+08:00","text":"居家托育人員的部分也是一樣，他如果有違反書面契約的內容，或者違反定型化契約的話，\n我們就是一樣限期改善，未改善的話就是罰 6,000 以上 3 萬元以下罰鍰，而且要按次處罰。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:37:37.431000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:37:56.001000+08:00","text":"我們在罰則上面，因為考慮到居家托育人員收托的人數相對比較小，相比機構的情況、違規\n的程度、影響程度，機構會相對更嚴重，所以在罰則上面，我們就稍微做了層次化的處理，以\n上報告。可以。","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:37:56.121000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:37:57.862000+08:00","text":"那我們就照這樣修正通過。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:37:57.862000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:37:58.583000+08:00","text":"繼續審查委員林淑芬第八十二條。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:38:04.679000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:38:41.052000+08:00","text":"林淑芬委員版本草案第八十二條，主要針對是不是要在這次的法案裡面增加違規記點\n的制度，先前我們討論的時候，其實我們最後討論的方向是一步一步建構違規記點制，但是到\n底哪一些行為要記點，或者這些行為違規之後要記多少點，以及違規以後累積到多少點要有更\n嚴重的處罰？","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:38:41.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:38:55.959000+08:00","text":"記點的門檻目前因為是一個新的制度，所以我們建議在條文裡面先不明定點數多\n少，點數的部分就留在這一條最後一項授權裡面。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:38:56.579000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:39:22.400000+08:00","text":"所以我們會建議在最後一項的授權事項，包\n括記點之適用條款、應記點數、暫停新收托期間、通知程序，以及廢止登記之條件等，這些執\n行上細節及記點點數的規範，將來就留在這個授權的辦法裡，比較可以有討論及確認的空間。","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:39:22.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:39:31.047000+08:00","text":"將來在執行上面對於外界來說，更能夠預期行政機關怎麼樣處理，以上報告。","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:39:33.437000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:39:34.358000+08:00","text":"這個要放在第幾條？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:39:34.358000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:39:35.878000+08:00","text":"你們條次要自己調整喔！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:39:39.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:39:41.161000+08:00","text":"原則上這條次，我們會擺在罰則章裡。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:39:42.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:39:51.645000+08:00","text":"而現在的條次，我們建議擺在第七十條，大概\n也是在罰則章的最後一條。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:39:52.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:39:59.709000+08:00","text":"今天委員這邊如果協商完成的話，我們會把條次整個順完，因為已\n經加了很多條文，我們條次還要再做整理。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:40:00.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:40:00.930000+08:00","text":"好，還要再整理。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:40:02.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:40:03.030000+08:00","text":"這樣可以吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:40:04.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:40:06.891000+08:00","text":"我們就照建議的條文通過。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:40:06.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:40:11.592000+08:00","text":"繼續審查委員林淑芬委員第八十五條。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:40:11.592000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:40:12.592000+08:00","text":"391\n立法院公報 第 115 卷 第 25 期 黨團協商紀錄","quality":0},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:40:11.592000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:40:19.113000+08:00","text":"林淑芬委員版本第八十五條是針對本法施行前已經擔任主管人員一些信賴保護的規定\n。","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:40:20.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:40:39.381000+08:00","text":"針對這條內容，基本上我們是參照林委員版本條文的內容，包括他的學經歷及高考考試資格\n的部分，這些我們都會把它納進來，在母法裡增列明確的規範，以上報告。","quality":0.866},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:40:44.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:40:44.884000+08:00","text":"沒有意見。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:40:44.884000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:40:45.884000+08:00","text":"沒有意見。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:40:45.004000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:40:47.366000+08:00","text":"我們就照建議的條文通過，謝謝。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:40:58.766000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:41:08.656000+08:00","text":"請各位委員看第三十六條，這是已通過的條文，衛福部要酌修文字，是不是？是。","quality":0.774},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:41:11.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:41:43.134000+08:00","text":"跟各位委員報告，這條是已經在委員會通過的條文，因為整個條文最後討論完通過以\n後，我們建議在文字上可以再做一點修正，讓前後條文對照的時候文字可以更精準，所以我們\n修正的地方主要是第二項的內容：「前項行為經直轄市、縣（市）主管機關依第五十七條及第\n六十四條規定處罰者，中央主管機關應建立處罰資料，供政府機關……」，主要是「處罰」這\n兩個文字修正，以上報告。沒有。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:41:43.134000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:41:44.508500+08:00","text":"好，我們就照行政院建議的文字修正通過。","quality":0.235},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:41:44.508500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:41:45.883000+08:00","text":"接下來第四十條，請說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:41:45.883000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:42:15.115000+08:00","text":"針對第四十條的部分，因為第四十條在前面討論的時候，第一項是消極資格有增列了\n居家托育服務中心工作人員，也要納入消極資格的管理。","quality":0.776},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:42:16.315000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:42:42.591000+08:00","text":"所以在這裡也是參酌後來討論的時候\n，我們建議在後面第二項的文字「居家托育服務中心」跟其他各條的文字用法一致，就是「居\n家托育服務中心之受託單位」，把這個文字能夠寫成一致，未來在各個條文解釋上比較不會有\n誤會，以上報告。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:42:44.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:42:49.439000+08:00","text":"好，是不是依照行政院所提的文字修正通過？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:42:49.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:42:53.303000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝，照這樣文字修正通過。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:42:53.303000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:42:53.443000+08:00","text":"接下來……","quality":1},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:42:55.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:43:01.219000+08:00","text":"最後有一個地方是先前也是委員會通過的第十一條……是。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:43:01.219000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:43:08.531000+08:00","text":"第十一條之前已經通過了，但在文字上面有一些……\n簡組長杏蓉：第六十三條因為罰責裡面有，但是前面沒有法律的構成要件……","quality":0.38},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:43:14.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:43:47.416000+08:00","text":"跟各位委員報告，因為第十一條的罰則是在訂在第六十三條裡，但是兩邊的文字是有\n一些不太一致的地方，所以我們建議在第十一條裡需要增列一些文字到第二項，就是「居家托\n育人員提供居家托育服務期間，有暫停收托服務之需要，應向主管機關申請暫停收托服務。","quality":0.836},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:43:48.216000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:43:54.617000+08:00","text":"」\n這樣才有辦法跟先前已經討論過的第六十三條處罰罰則條文能夠一致。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:43:58.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:44:13.503000+08:00","text":"現在把我們建議的文字\n放在螢幕上面，請各位委員參考，因為第六十三條的部分，當時討論的時候在政策面，各位委\n員大概都比較一致。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:44:14.364000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:44:24.553000+08:00","text":"有關居家托育人員暫停收託服務的時候納進去要做處罰，暫停收託處罰的\n392\n立法院公報 第 115 卷 第 25 期 黨團協商紀錄\n部分當時在前面第十一條寫得不明確。","quality":0.629},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:44:24.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:44:28.556000+08:00","text":"好，各位委員……王正旭委員。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:44:30.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:44:41.784000+08:00","text":"這裡有 3 支。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-03-27T12:44:43.966000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:45:13.109000+08:00","text":"有關第四十條剛剛有酌修文字的部分，第二項倒數第四行，我看到的是紅色字體，「\n由托育機構或居家托育服務中心之受託單位」，可是它的下一行「或居家托育服務中心之受委\n託單位」，「受託單位」和「受委託單位」，這要有一致性還是故意要變成一個「受託」，一\n個是「受委託」？","quality":0.748},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-03-27T12:45:13.949000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:45:15.150000+08:00","text":"是不是再確認一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:45:15.150000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:45:21.557000+08:00","text":"受委託啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-03-27T12:45:21.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:45:24.124000+08:00","text":"了解我的意思嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-03-27T12:45:24.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:45:26.350000+08:00","text":"一個是「受託」，一個是「受委託」，這是一樣的意思嗎？","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-03-27T12:45:28.814000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:45:31.775000+08:00","text":"紅色的\n字體部分，就是今天發下來的資料。","quality":0.588},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:45:31.775000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:45:51.779000+08:00","text":"對不起，跟王委員致歉，我們同仁整理的時間真的有一點點急，兩邊的文字應該是要\n一致的，原則上應該是用「受託單位」，後面的「委」字應該要刪掉，我們可能漏刪了，跟委\n員致歉，這個是我們幕僚作業做得不精準。","quality":0.798},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:45:54.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:46:10.852000+08:00","text":"我們先說第十一條沒有意見，但我也看到第三十六條，第三十六條是應該建立處罰的\n資料庫，而不是資料而已，「資料庫」比較完整，是不是？","quality":0.836},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:46:10.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:46:43.493000+08:00","text":"第三十六條，就是「前項行為經直\n轄市、縣（市）主管機關依第五十七條及第六十四條規定處罰者，中央主管機關應建立處罰資\n料庫，供政府機關（構）或經其同意之機構、法人或團體查詢」，是「資料庫」。可以。","quality":0.62},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:46:43.493000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:46:45.154000+08:00","text":"OK，好，加一個「庫」。","quality":0},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:46:45.154000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:46:46.815000+08:00","text":"我們再增列一個字。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:46:46.815000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:46:54.363000+08:00","text":"第三十六條就照這樣修正通過，剛剛的第十一條也是修正通過了，還有第四十條也是一樣再\n修正通過，謝謝。","quality":0.795},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:47:07.474000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:47:08.975000+08:00","text":"條文部分已經審竣……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:47:08.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:47:24.477000+08:00","text":"最後跟召委報告一下，我們同仁最後在對條文的時候，發現第四十八條已經通過的條\n文，也有漏字的地方，可能要補一下，所以跟委員、跟召委報告一下。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:47:27.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:47:47.148000+08:00","text":"我們同仁剛剛把文字整\n理在上面，也是針對處罰的部分，因為考慮到托育機構大概都會規範到居托服務中心，但是在\n第四十八條第三項，當時在討論的時候，討論結果漏把文字列進去。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:47:47.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:48:15.172000+08:00","text":"所以我們建議是不是可以\n在第四十八條第三項裡面，把這個文字也一併補進去，文字建議的寫法就是「托育機構或居家\n托育服務中心受託單位對第一項為通報之人員」，然後以下接到先前討論過的條文，主體的部\n分能夠規範得更嚴謹。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:48:15.172000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:48:16.722500+08:00","text":"好，可以吧？","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:48:16.722500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:48:18.273000+08:00","text":"393\n立法院公報 第 115 卷 第 25 期 黨團協商紀錄","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:48:18.273000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:48:41.205000+08:00","text":"這樣子的話，第五十五條也有一個，「應依本法第四十八條或其他法令規定」，就是\n最後兩項，你們新增了兩項。","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:48:44.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:48:53.572000+08:00","text":"倒數第二項，這個是小問題，就是「應依本法第四十八條或其他\n法令規定通報」，最後一項加「本法」兩個字啦！","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:48:56.554000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:49:04.469000+08:00","text":"因為前一項有本法，後面一項沒有本法，就\n是第五十五條的最後一項啦，統一用語。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T12:49:04.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:49:09.712000+08:00","text":"主席，不好意思，你們要不要資料給我們？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T12:49:09.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:49:17.517000+08:00","text":"現在一直都找不到資料，從剛才前面討論\n都沒有，這邊大本的也沒有東西。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:49:17.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:49:18.638000+08:00","text":"沒有，有新的大本。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:49:22.521000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:49:23.881000+08:00","text":"加「本法」兩個字而已。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-03-27T12:49:26.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:49:26.103000+08:00","text":"「本法」刪掉。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-03-27T12:49:26.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:49:28.324000+08:00","text":"你把前一項「本法」刪掉，可以。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:49:30.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:49:41.132000+08:00","text":"我們先處理剛剛行政單位提出來第四十八條的文字修正，各位如果沒有意見，我們就修正通\n過，然後也請行政單位不要再漏了。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:49:43.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:49:48.393000+08:00","text":"再來處理第五十五條，「本法」兩個字要一致性，就刪掉了，對不對？","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:49:49.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:49:50.934000+08:00","text":"各位委員有沒有其他\n意見？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:49:51.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:49:53.115000+08:00","text":"沒有其他意見，我們就照這樣修正通過，謝謝。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:49:56.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:50:16.330000+08:00","text":"條文部分已經審查完竣，立法說明如有需要補充或調整，授權行政機關處理；本法案相關條\n次、條文中援引條次以及法制用語調整，授權議事人員整理。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:50:21.952000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:50:34.940000+08:00","text":"現在來處理附帶決議計有 9 案，請議事人員宣讀……對不起，請議事人員一併宣讀新增加之\n附帶決議 1 案。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:50:40.241000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:51:04.717000+08:00","text":"附帶決議\n《兒童托育服務法草案》第四十六條\n考量幼兒年齡較小且無行為能力，復審酌托育相關人員為照顧幼兒常需與其有頻繁肢體碰觸\n，其不當對待事件之調查及審議具有特殊性及專業性，爰審議小組成員之相關領域專家組成比\n例應具衡平性；另為兼顧調查品質，專責人員及調查小組均應接受專業訓練。","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:51:06.938000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:51:31.875000+08:00","text":"請衛生福利部訂定授權辦法時，應定明審議小組成員之專家或團體代表比例，以均衡各領域\n之平衡；另考量調查人員須具備一定專業與實務經驗，並應辦理調查不當對待事件人員及審議\n小組成員之教育訓練；以維護調查及審議之品質，兼顧兒童安全、家長權益及托育相關人員之\n工作權益。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"提案人","start":"2026-03-27T12:51:31.875000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:51:33.983000+08:00","text":"林月琴","quality":0},{"speaker":"連署人","start":"2026-03-27T12:51:33.983000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:51:36.091000+08:00","text":"林淑芬  王正旭","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:51:36.091000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:51:38.199000+08:00","text":"現在處理第一案。","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:51:38.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:10.629000+08:00","text":"針對附帶決議第一案，各部會有沒有意見？","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:10.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:11.149000+08:00","text":"我們遵照辦理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:11.149000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:12.149000+08:00","text":"第一案是什麼？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:12.149000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:13.149000+08:00","text":"可是我們手上沒有資料了，那是什麼？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:13.149000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:14.149000+08:00","text":"附帶決議是因為第四十六條嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:14.149000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:15.149000+08:00","text":"394\n立法院公報 第 115 卷 第 25 期 黨團協商紀錄","quality":0},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:15.149000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:16.149000+08:00","text":"第四十六條。","quality":0},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:11.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:12.370000+08:00","text":"我們遵照辦理。沒有。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:12.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:18.675000+08:00","text":"沒有，那就照案通過。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:26.781000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:29.123000+08:00","text":"直接審第二案，請問行政單位有無意見？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:29.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:30.123000+08:00","text":"「兒童托育服務法」審查會保留附帶決議 8 項：\n(一)有鑑於托育機構監視錄影資料在處理兒童安全爭議時扮演關鍵角色，然而現行制度在資\n料保存、設備維護及調閱程序上仍有不足。","quality":0.111},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:30.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:31.123000+08:00","text":"為確保影像資料能完整留存、有效運用，以保障兒\n童與照顧者的權益，主管機關應積極辦理下列事項：(1)滾動式檢討與訂定保存及調閱規範：應\n定期滾動式檢討監視錄影資料的保存期限，並研議訂定統一的調閱標準作業程序（SOP）。","quality":0.011},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:31.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:32.123000+08:00","text":"此\nSOP 應明訂資料申請、審核與調閱流程，以確保資訊在安全與隱私兼顧的前提下，能迅速有效\n地被運用。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:32.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:33.123000+08:00","text":"(2)建立設備故障與錄影中斷通報機制：應要求托育機構建立監視錄影設備故障或錄\n影中斷的即時通報與限期修復機制，並將此機制落實情況納入地方主管機關查核項目，藉此確\n保監控系統能穩定運作，避免關鍵時刻無影像可供查證。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:33.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:34.123000+08:00","text":"(3)研議夜間托育攝影機規範：考量夜\n間托育服務的特殊性，應針對夜間托育機構研議紅外線攝影機的裝設需求與機關規範，以確保\n在低光源環境下仍能完整記錄影像，為夜間托育服務建立更完善的安全保障。","quality":0},{"speaker":"提案人","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:34.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:35.123000+08:00","text":"林月琴  王正旭  黃秀芳  郭昱晴\n(二)主管機關應邀集民間團體、機構托育人員代表、專家學者，以及相關承辦托育服務之機\n構單位，共同研商監視器管理之相關規範。","quality":0},{"speaker":"提案人","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:35.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:36.123000+08:00","text":"其規範內容應兼顧合理性、公平性與時效性，以確\n保兒童權益保障、托育人員工作尊嚴及家長知情權之平衡。","quality":0},{"speaker":"提案人","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:36.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:37.123000+08:00","text":"林月琴  林淑芬  王育敏  張雅琳\n(三)為保障兒童人身安全，強化兒童遭遇不當對待時事後調查之證據保全，於托育機構之相\n關托育人員若有涉及本法第 36 條不得對兒童有身心虐待、體罰、霸凌、性騷擾、不當管教及其\n他對兒童之身心暴力或不當對待之行為，直轄市、縣（市）依本法第 46 條第 1 項規定於二個工\n作日內進行處理，而依同條第 2 項規定受理前項疑似違法事件後，直接派員或組成調查小組進\n行調查時，應負責保存相關攝錄影音資料至調查或法律程序終結後三個月，俾利作為證據之用\n。","quality":0},{"speaker":"提案人","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:37.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:38.123000+08:00","text":"王正旭","quality":0},{"speaker":"連署人","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:38.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:39.123000+08:00","text":"林月琴  林淑芬\n(四)為保障兒童人身安全，並強化兒童遭遇不當對待時第一時間之事後調查之證據保全。","quality":0},{"speaker":"連署人","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:39.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:40.123000+08:00","text":"中\n央主管機關應訂定相關規定，使兒童之法定代理人，如發現兒童於托育機構期間有異常傷痕、\n行為改變或其他具體懷疑時，得檢具相關資料向直轄市、縣（市）主管機關申請調閱特定期間\n之攝錄影音資料。","quality":0},{"speaker":"連署人","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:40.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:41.123000+08:00","text":"中央主管機關訂定之相關規定，應包含調閱之條件、隱私保護、合理使用與\n395\n立法院公報 第 115 卷 第 25 期 黨團協商紀錄\n救濟機制，以防止資料濫用、洩漏或侵害他人權益，確保查閱行為僅限於合法用途，達成保護\n兒童與兼顧個資保護之平衡。","quality":0},{"speaker":"連署人","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:41.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:42.123000+08:00","text":"此規定可作為兒童侵權事件發生時第一時間的重要補救措施，提\n升證據留存與查核之機會，並使家長得以適時反映疑慮，避免虐待情節長期隱蔽。","quality":0},{"speaker":"提案人","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:42.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:43.123000+08:00","text":"王正旭","quality":0},{"speaker":"連署人","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:43.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:44.123000+08:00","text":"林月琴  林淑芬\n(五)為加強影像保存，避免托育機構監視錄影設備毀損或遭人為破壞，基於保護兒童安全與\n發生兒虐案件時得查知相關事實並確保證據之保存，以利責任歸屬，保障當事人家長及托育機\n構雙方權益。","quality":0},{"speaker":"連署人","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:44.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:45.123000+08:00","text":"針對《兒童托育服務法草案》第 30 條第 1 項，為維護兒童人身安全及相關證據保\n全，托育機構應裝設監視錄影設備，妥善管理攝錄影音資料，至少保存三十日，並加以保密；\n以及第 30 條第 2 項，托育機構應將前項攝錄影音資料傳送至直轄市、（縣）市主管機關建置之\n網際網路系統儲存，不得規避、妨礙或拒絕。","quality":0},{"speaker":"連署人","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:45.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:46.123000+08:00","text":"中央主管機關應訂定相關規定，授權直轄市、縣\n（市）主管機關，定期追蹤檢查托育機構之錄影設備運作、資料儲存以及上傳，以確保影像設\n備功能、保存及上傳義務之履行。","quality":0},{"speaker":"提案人","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:46.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:47.123000+08:00","text":"王正旭","quality":0},{"speaker":"連署人","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:47.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:48.123000+08:00","text":"林月琴  楊 曜\n(六)第三十條監視錄影制度之目的在於確保兒童人身安全、掌握托育現場狀態並協助事後證\n據釐清，地方主管機關辦理行政稽查、評鑑或訪視輔導時，不應僅以確認監視器材是否正常運\n作為限，致流於形式。","quality":0},{"speaker":"連署人","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:48.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:49.123000+08:00","text":"地方主管機關應定期前往托育機構隨機抽查並實際查閱部分時段之監視\n畫面，以掌握托育服務現場動態，強化風險辨識能力，並及早發現不當照顧或其他安全疑慮。","quality":0},{"speaker":"連署人","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:49.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:50.123000+08:00","text":"中央主管機關並應督導地方主管機關建立一致且具操作性的抽查原則、查閱程序及紀錄方式，\n包含抽查比例、時段選取、異常通報流程及資訊安全管理等項目，使監視錄影制度得以有效運\n作。","quality":0},{"speaker":"連署人","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:50.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:51.123000+08:00","text":"主管機關亦應避免抽查作業流於例行或繁瑣，確保查閱內容具有實質性與代表性，以真正\n達成托育機構監管及兒童安全保障之目的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"提案人","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:51.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:52.123000+08:00","text":"林月琴","quality":0},{"speaker":"連署人","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:52.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:53.123000+08:00","text":"王正旭  楊 曜\n(七)為避免「兒童托育服務法」三讀後，因資安管理疏漏、人力資源不足及缺乏完善隱私保\n護機制，反而製造新的兒童隱私洩漏與托育人才流失風險，請衛生福利部於本法三讀後 3 個月\n內，提出下列配套規範，以確保托育安全與兒童權益、從業人員權益能獲得衡平保障。","quality":0},{"speaker":"連署人","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:53.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:54.123000+08:00","text":"(1)建立\n兒童隱私分級保護：研修「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法」時，要求衛生福利部評估研擬並公\n告「兒童隱私分級保護機制」訂定，對非當事兒童影像採遮蔽、模糊化或閱覽限制措施。","quality":0},{"speaker":"連署人","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:54.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:55.123000+08:00","text":"明訂\n家長調閱影像範圍與程序，確保比例原則及隱私權保障。","quality":0},{"speaker":"連署人","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:55.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:56.123000+08:00","text":"(2)資安管理與專責人力強化：建立「\n防弊機制」與內部存取控管規範，防止公務人員或特定人士濫用資料。","quality":0},{"speaker":"連署人","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:56.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:57.123000+08:00","text":"地方政府應善盡資安管\n理之責，確保監管雲資料安全。","quality":0},{"speaker":"連署人","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:57.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:58.123000+08:00","text":"(3)托育從業人員心理健康與工作支持：調查監管雲政策對托育\n人員心理健康及流動率的影響，必要時提供心理支持。","quality":0},{"speaker":"連署人","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:58.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:52:59.123000+08:00","text":"明確訂定設置監視錄影設備之合理範圍\n，避免造成過度壓力。","quality":0},{"speaker":"連署人","start":"2026-03-27T12:52:59.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:53:00.123000+08:00","text":"(4)前端預防與資源配置：研修「兒童及少年福利與權益保障法」時，評\n396\n立法院公報 第 115 卷 第 25 期 黨團協商紀錄\n估納入提升高風險家庭篩檢與社工支持，以及親職教育普及化程度。","quality":0},{"speaker":"連署人","start":"2026-03-27T12:53:00.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:53:01.123000+08:00","text":"兼顧監視設備與托育人力\n衡平性，確保政策以預防兒虐及提升托育品質為核心，而非僅依賴事後影像追溯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"連署人","start":"2026-03-27T12:53:01.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:53:02.123000+08:00","text":"(5)政策檢討","quality":0},{"speaker":"與報告","start":"2026-03-27T12:53:02.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:53:03.123000+08:00","text":"衛生福利部應定期檢討地方政府整體落實情形，並於每年度向立法院提出書面報告。","quality":0},{"speaker":"提案人","start":"2026-03-27T12:53:03.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:53:04.123000+08:00","text":"林月琴  王正旭  林淑芬  郭昱晴\n(八)鑑於托育服務相關案件中，涉及兒童疑似不當對待之調查結果，與後續審議及裁處結果\n攸關兒童最佳利益、當事人權益及程序正義，惟實務上曾發生與事件具直接利害關係之當事人\n及其法定代理人，於案件進入審議程序、作成終局裁處決定前，無法依法調閱完整調查報告，\n或僅獲提供摘要、節錄內容，致影響其陳述意見、防禦權行使及救濟權益之情形。","quality":0.006},{"speaker":"提案人","start":"2026-03-27T12:53:04.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:53:05.123000+08:00","text":"爰此，要求\n行政主管機關於托育服務相關案件進入審議程序前（即討論並作成終局決議或裁處行為人之前\n），應保障與事件具直接利害關係之當事人或其法定代理人，得依法申請調閱完整調查報告內\n容，不得僅提供摘要、節錄或重點整理；其涉及第三人個人資料或依法應保護事項者，得依《\n個人資料保護法》及相關規定進行去識別化或適當遮蔽後提供，不得以概括性理由拒絕提供。","quality":0.006},{"speaker":"提案人","start":"2026-03-27T12:53:05.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:53:06.123000+08:00","text":"主管機關並應檢討並建立托育服務案件調查報告之調閱程序與作業原則，確保調查程序之完整\n性、事實認定之正確性、審議裁處之正當性，以及兒童及相關當事人程序權益之充分保障。","quality":0},{"speaker":"提案人","start":"2026-03-27T12:53:06.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:53:07.123000+08:00","text":"林月琴","quality":0},{"speaker":"連署人","start":"2026-03-27T12:53:07.123000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:53:08.123000+08:00","text":"王正旭  黃秀芳","quality":0},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:53:00.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:53:16.701000+08:00","text":"保留附帶決議 8 案的第一案，最後一段第三款研議夜間托育攝影規範以下的部分，我\n們建議是不是不列入？","quality":0.744},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:53:18.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:53:18.482000+08:00","text":"這個部分的話……","quality":1},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:53:22.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:53:33.134000+08:00","text":"對，第三款整個刪掉，因為多數的托嬰中心沒有夜間服務，我們建議夜間部分是不是\n不列進來？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:53:33.134000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:53:43.019000+08:00","text":"但是我們支持只要這個托育機構，如果它服務的時間是少數有夜間的話，那它應該\n要錄。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:53:51.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:53:53.809000+08:00","text":"因此我們建議是不是在前面……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T12:53:59.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:54:03.434000+08:00","text":"現在幾乎全臺灣的托育中心都沒有夜間……","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:54:03.434000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:54:04.434000+08:00","text":"對，應該都沒有夜間了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T12:54:03.434000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:54:07.396000+08:00","text":"所以直接刪掉就好了，不用去考慮，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:54:07.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:54:07.536000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:54:12.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:54:15.400000+08:00","text":"針對這案就是把第三款刪掉，各位有沒有其他意見？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:54:17.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:54:24.489000+08:00","text":"沒有，我們就照這樣修正後通過。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:54:24.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:54:24.489000+08:00","text":"好，繼續審查。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:54:27.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:54:32.272000+08:00","text":"第二案的部分我們完全遵照辦理。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:54:34.253000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:54:36.174000+08:00","text":"行政單位遵照辦理，其他委員有沒有其他意見？","quality":0.684},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:54:36.174000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:54:36.914000+08:00","text":"沒有，我們就照案通過。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:54:36.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:54:40.841000+08:00","text":"繼續審查第三案。","quality":1},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:54:41.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:54:42.221000+08:00","text":"第三案遵照辦理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:54:44.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:54:45.082000+08:00","text":"行政單位遵照辦理，各位委員有沒有其他意見？","quality":0.684},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:54:45.082000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:54:46.942000+08:00","text":"沒有，我們就照案通過。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:54:46.942000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:54:47.382000+08:00","text":"繼續審查第四案。","quality":1},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:54:47.802000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:54:48.983000+08:00","text":"第四案遵照辦理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:54:48.983000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:54:50.283000+08:00","text":"397\n立法院公報 第 115 卷 第 25 期 黨團協商紀錄","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:54:50.283000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:54:51.283000+08:00","text":"各位有沒有其他意見？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:54:51.283000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:54:52.483000+08:00","text":"沒有，我們就照案通過。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:54:52.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:54:52.803000+08:00","text":"繼續審查第五案。","quality":1},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:54:53.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:54:59.065000+08:00","text":"第五案，我們建議文字是不是可以稍作調整？","quality":1},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:55:08.997000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:55:24.003000+08:00","text":"倒數第二行「定期追蹤檢查」建議將「\n定期追蹤檢查」修正為「抽查」。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-03-27T12:55:31.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:55:33.509000+08:00","text":"我不太贊成這樣的修正。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-03-27T12:55:35.371000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:55:58.127000+08:00","text":"其實他就是把資料上到雲端，所以只要可以隨時都能做，因\n此應該是定期追蹤檢查而不是抽查，而且這樣對於行政同仁來說其實並沒有增加任何負擔，用\n抽查反而會造成一些困惑或困難。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-03-27T12:55:58.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:56:05.228000+08:00","text":"這就好像廁所、洗手間的檢查都是定期在處理，不會用抽查\n的方式。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-03-27T12:56:05.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:56:17.911000+08:00","text":"況且這是已經既存的雲端資料，真的不需要用抽查的方式，我們只是要確定、確實有\n依照需要把資料上到雲端。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-03-27T12:56:18.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:56:22.172000+08:00","text":"以上，再請斟酌。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:56:22.172000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:56:22.373000+08:00","text":"這可以吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:56:23.613000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:56:23.693000+08:00","text":"可以啦！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:56:25.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:56:26.654000+08:00","text":"抽查的話是多久抽一次？","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:56:28.315000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:56:29.636000+08:00","text":"要把抽查辦法訂出來。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:56:29.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:56:30.476000+08:00","text":"我們遵照辦理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:56:30.977000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:56:32.838000+08:00","text":"就遵照辦理，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:56:33.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:56:34.779000+08:00","text":"照案通過。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:56:34.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:56:41.963000+08:00","text":"繼續審查第六案，行政單位有沒有意見？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:56:41.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:57:22.452000+08:00","text":"第六案第四行「定期前往托育機構隨機抽查」，我們建議是不是「定期」與「隨機」\n兩個詞就不納進來？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:57:24.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:57:29.577000+08:00","text":"至於委員提到的「抽查比例」，我們建議是不是可以先不納入？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:57:33.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:57:45.017000+08:00","text":"最後，有\n關異常通報，我們建議異常通報「流程」是不是可以修正為異常通報「處理」？","quality":1},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:57:46.117000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:57:50.539000+08:00","text":"這是我們幾個\n文字修正建議，在此徵詢各位委員的意見看是否可行？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T12:57:53.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:57:54.581000+08:00","text":"有關前段的修正我不同意。","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T12:57:55.761000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:58:03.945000+08:00","text":"前面王正旭委員已經講到你們本來要將定期改為抽查，現\n在你們又自己去改抽查？","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T12:58:04.585000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:58:04.866000+08:00","text":"為什麼這裡要改？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T12:58:06.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:58:08.487000+08:00","text":"這裡的定期我建議還是要納入。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T12:58:08.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:58:15.089000+08:00","text":"另外，就是要隨機，不能夠明擺著什麼時候要去抽查，所以我們希望能採「隨機」。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T12:58:15.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:58:22.230000+08:00","text":"至於後\n面，不知道通報處理跟通報流程有什麼差別？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T12:58:22.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:58:23.891000+08:00","text":"這整個還是一個流程。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T12:58:24.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:58:27.952000+08:00","text":"最後，抽查比例我非常堅\n持，所以我還是維持我的原意。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:58:29.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:58:30.492000+08:00","text":"我們遵照辦理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:58:30.872000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:58:33.273000+08:00","text":"好，遵照辦理，我們就照案通過。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:58:33.273000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:58:34.553000+08:00","text":"繼續審查第七案。","quality":1},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:58:35.999000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:58:55.928000+08:00","text":"第七案我們希望能跟委員爭取一下，第三行「於本法三讀後三個月內」可否容許不要\n將本法三讀後三個月內列進來？","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:58:57.609000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:59:13.598000+08:00","text":"因為我們大概整個盤點了一下，在這次修完以後，包括要新訂\n的法規命令跟公告，或者是相關制度，大概有二十幾項，這個時間確實是會比較長……","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:59:13.598000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:59:17.660000+08:00","text":"所以我們想跟委員爭取一下，這個部分是不是可以不要把三個月的期限放進來？","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T12:59:17.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:59:24.444000+08:00","text":"因為今天提案的郭昱晴委員不在，她是託給我，就看你們覺得多久時間，因為她也沒\n再跟我……","quality":0.541},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:59:25.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:59:34.088000+08:00","text":"當時在委員會討論的時候，我們估計這一類的法規整個大概會需要一年的時間。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:59:34.088000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T12:59:35.088000+08:00","text":"398\n立法院公報 第 115 卷 第 25 期 黨團協商紀錄一年？","quality":0.118},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:59:34.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:59:36.189000+08:00","text":"那就整個刪掉就好了，好不好？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T12:59:36.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:59:37.270000+08:00","text":"那整個刪掉好了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:59:38.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:59:38.750000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:59:38.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:59:41.472000+08:00","text":"文字就修正後通過。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T12:59:41.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T12:59:41.872000+08:00","text":"繼續審查第八案。","quality":1},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T12:59:43.988000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T13:01:49.574000+08:00","text":"第八案的部分，我們建議中間這一段的文字是不是可以有再做一點點處理的空間，請\n翻到最後一頁，從第三行「爰此」這邊開始，我們建議「要求行政主管機關於托育服務相關案\n件」之後改幾個字，原來的「進入審議程序前」跟後面括弧的這一段文字，我們建議改為「之\n調查審議結果」，就是把它簡化一點；後面接到原決議「應保障與事件」，之後的「直接利害\n關係之當事人或其法定代理人」，我們建議這個部分是不是可以跟已經通過的法律條文做一個\n調整，修正為「實際照顧之人或其法定代理人」；再把之後「得依法」的「得」字刪除，以「\n依法提供載明事實及理由之審議結果」替換委員決議裡面的「依法申請調閱完整調查報告內容\n」；後面「得依個人資料保護法及相關規定進行去識別化或適當遮蔽後提供」簡化一點，修正\n為「得依個人資料保護法及相關規定辦理」；最後一段首句修正為「主管機關並應檢討並建立\n托育服務案件調查之程序與作業原則」，就是把其中的「報告」和「調閱」等字刪除。","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T13:01:50.134000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T13:01:52.758000+08:00","text":"我們建\n議是不是做以上的文字調整？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T13:01:55.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T13:02:15.559000+08:00","text":"我只有兩個同意，就是修改為「實際照顧之人」及「相關辦法」，其他部分不同意的\n理由是，本來我們一直在處理幼兒園不當對待的最大困難就是行為人可以看到完整的報告，對\n方講什麼、我這邊講什麼，為什麼受害者的家屬事實上反而看不到任何的報告？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T13:02:16.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T13:02:20.663000+08:00","text":"就只有最後一\n個審議結果說是怎麼樣，但到底這個歷程是怎樣？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T13:02:20.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T13:02:29.908000+08:00","text":"甚至我家長講的話、代行孩子講的話，甚至\n看到的事實，都不能看到這些內容，所以我不同意，當時我們為什麼寫成這樣是有其背後的緣\n由。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T13:02:30.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T13:02:52.900000+08:00","text":"所以我僅同意因為跟法條的……就是這個兒托法的前面要加「實際照顧之人」我覺得 OK，\n後面不要贅字，用「相關規定辦理」也 OK，其他的就按照我原來所提的文字。以上。","quality":0.866},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T13:02:53.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T13:03:17.690000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告一下，我們建議做這樣的文字調整，主要思考的就是當時在委員會討論的\n時候，其實對於這個調查跟審議或者是未來出來的報告部分，當時最後討論的結果是我們未來\n在審議結果會參考目前教育部的作法。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T13:03:19.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T13:03:42.050000+08:00","text":"審議結果裡面會完整的記載審議結果的事實跟成立或者\n不成立的理由，我們之所以用審議結果的目的是跟現在討論過的條文去做一個呼應，大概是這\n樣的想法，以上報告。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T13:03:42.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T13:03:50.798000+08:00","text":"第一個，上次在討論前面法條的時候我剛好不在，所以後來我為什麼去補這個附帶決\n議，原因就在這邊。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T13:03:50.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T13:04:01.328000+08:00","text":"第二個，事實上教育部的作法我就已經覺得不 OK 了，可是當初幼照法及相關辦法在處理的時\n候，後來執行的時候的確就出現了這些問題。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T13:04:01.328000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T13:04:18.576000+08:00","text":"事實上，很多時候幼兒園的家長拿不到他孩子不\n當對待調查的報告，只能拿到結果說依照什麼會向對方裁處，可是我不太理解的是，為什麼行\n為人可以看到完整的報告而受害者不能看到完整的報告？","quality":0.707},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T13:04:18.716000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T13:04:29.859000+08:00","text":"甚至我家長講了什麼、表達了什麼、\n399\n立法院公報 第 115 卷 第 25 期 黨團協商紀錄\n對方講什麼，行為人可以看到完整的報告，可是受害者家長講了什麼話，報告到底怎麼寫的？","quality":0.485},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T13:04:30.279000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T13:04:49.070000+08:00","text":"我過去是在認定委員會看到完整報告，跟家長看到的不太一樣，對方講的話有時候不是事實的\n時候，家長也沒辦法反駁，甚至有時候可能是誤偏了，因為透過議員後來家長拿到一些報告，\n家長說這些話根本就都不是他講的，怎麼會在登載在裡面？","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T13:04:49.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T13:04:59.637000+08:00","text":"這些報告就會讓認定委員會去認定\n耶，我覺得這就會變成不對等的關係，所以我不同意這樣子改啦，我希望維持原意。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T13:04:59.637000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T13:05:00.637000+08:00","text":"補充一下，幼照法我們也會要求比照辦理，所以接下來我們就是要去處理幼照法。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T13:05:00.637000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T13:05:01.637000+08:00","text":"可以吧？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T13:05:01.338000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T13:05:02.698000+08:00","text":"文字就照林委員建議的這樣修正通過，可以嗎？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-03-27T13:05:29.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T13:05:30.576000+08:00","text":"好，遵照辦理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T13:05:30.956000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T13:05:41.427000+08:00","text":"好，文字就照剛剛林月琴委員所提的修正來通過，謝謝。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T13:05:41.867000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T13:05:51.456000+08:00","text":"現在宣告以下協商結論：\n一、協商通過條文，如附件一。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T13:06:03.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T13:06:06.967000+08:00","text":"二、通過審查會保留附帶決議 8 項，如附件二。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T13:06:07.787000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T13:06:09.709000+08:00","text":"三、新增附帶決議 1 項，如附件三。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T13:06:10.589000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T13:06:14.613000+08:00","text":"四、其餘均照審查會審查結果通過。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T13:06:14.613000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T13:06:19.597000+08:00","text":"五、檢附全案名稱、章次及章名、條次及條文、立法說明如附件四。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T13:06:24.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T13:06:26.763000+08:00","text":"請各位聆聽一下，這是很嚴肅的事情。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T13:06:26.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T13:07:06.702000+08:00","text":"本案於 114 年 5 月 19 日在衛環委員會排案詢答 1 次，\n經過 6 次的審查，於 114 年 12 月 22 日出委員會，之後又歷經 3 次協商，總算在今天 115 年 3 月\n27 日正式協商完成，也期待我們可以在 4 月 4 日兒童節完成三讀通過，送給全國的兒童最高的\n保障。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-03-27T13:07:13.231000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T13:07:13.231000+08:00","text":"謝謝召委。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T13:07:13.231000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T13:07:25.482000+08:00","text":"謝謝，謝謝各位委員，也謝謝部長，謝謝署長，謝謝列席的相關官員，還有我們最美麗的法\n務部汪參事，今天都沒有讓你講到話，謝謝。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T13:09:41.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-03-27T13:09:51.987000+08:00","text":"請各黨團來簽名，簽完後就散會，謝謝。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-03-27T13:09:52.487000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-03-27T13:09:57.915571+08:00","text":"散會（13 時 9 分）\n400\n立法院公報 第 115 卷 第 25 期 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