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請行政院長謝謝請卓院長備詢"},{"start":1940.936,"end":1963.623,"text":"我現在關心一下這個物價上漲的問題因為現在傳出來連米大家平常每天吃的米都要漲了所以這個漲價的危機似乎都已經來了有一個國內算是蠻大的一家米商他一天大概出貨大概數萬包米那他每天大概包米的材料到一千萬元"},{"start":1964.443,"end":1989.278,"text":"但是他最近他現在傳出來就是說他的上游提供包裝給他的廠商跟他說一開始是說要漲兩成那現在說要漲到一倍了啦那漲一倍之後大家其實就會擔心說那米價是不是會跟著一起漲然後另外現在市場上也傳出很多塑膠類的東西囤貨的狀況比如說有那個回收就是"},{"start":1990.96,"end":2007.317,"text":"類似那種就是塑膠用的那些殘具那現在也說有囤貨的狀況那國務院會擔心說如果再吃了這一塊這種每天必須要消費的東西上場的話那怎麼辦啊我不知道說包括院長或者是行政院這邊有沒有一些因應措施"},{"start":2008.99,"end":2032.183,"text":"我們同樣注意到今天有這樣一個媒體的報導主要是因為包材因為這個原物料的缺乏以及現在市場上價格比較調整上來的原因倒不是米做農作物本身我知道我剛有講不要重複我的問題我現在問說行政院現在應用措施是什麼因為如果米都要漲的話我覺得對國人來說影響很大對包材的問題"},{"start":2036.045,"end":2061.267,"text":"今天我們會特別 昨天已經說明清楚了中油會對於相關的塑膠材料的原物料會做進行的中油會增加生產也會請台塑來恢復原來的供應量希望這樣能夠從上游的原料來增加問題是現在可能已經緩不濟急了我跟委員報告一下那我先問一下 院長那您運估一下米價會不會因為這樣子漲大概會漲多少"},{"start":2062.838,"end":2091.56,"text":"大家要先準備 先漲了百分之二十左右吧米會 米會漲百分之二十我說米啦 大家一般不會買包材嘛我跟委員報告一下喔就是您剛才所關鍵的米的包裝袋的部分最主要是現在因為米商擔心它不夠所以有加量訂購不好意思那個院長跟部長因為我們職業生有限不要一直重複我的問題好不好剛剛我的問題我都講過我現在是問說因為國人買的到米國人不會去買米的包裝"},{"start":2092.401,"end":2116.363,"text":"所以大家關心的是米價的上漲那關於米價的上漲行政院因應措施還有預期大概米價會漲多少你有沒有信心讓米價不會漲到很多我的問題在這邊 這是重複我的問題對 以農業部的立場我們現在正在寫而且米商也基本上也有承諾因為包材本身占米的這些成本的部分它百分比來打 他們都會吸收所以我們會隨時了解米價的一個漲幅"},{"start":2117.824,"end":2132.49,"text":"不會因為紓壓帶的微幅的上漲以後就造成米價的上漲所以農業部有信心不會造成米價上漲就對了我們會謝謝那個秘書給這樣的承諾啦謝謝行政院長也給這樣的承諾啦不然的話我覺得國人會非常擔心啦我們密切關注所有的發展而且會適時的檢討並必要的平穩物價穩定小組是每週都在對所有的大宗及民生物價進行觀測"},{"start":2146.775,"end":2161.726,"text":"接下來因為院長有這個承諾我覺得很高興就是有注意到這個事再來我想來問一下有關教育就是我一直非常關心的教育的問題那我想院長應該也都有看到就是最近"},{"start":2162.486,"end":2183.706,"text":"有關於校園暴力事件有幾件社會非常關注其中有一個是在某一個國中在校外有國二的女學生她被幾個人圍住然後被用履棒敲頭敲了兩下其中有一下那個履棒還發出聲響換句話說這個如果力道沒有控制好的話這可能是會有生命危險的"},{"start":2184.346,"end":2203.14,"text":"那另外也有一個國中一樣類似的狀況也是有女學生在廁所被大概堵了30分鐘也是一樣下跪被扯頭髮被打那這樣的校園事件層出不窮我先給院長看一個數據我們看一下PD幫我放一下"},{"start":2205.307,"end":2222.641,"text":"這個是最近失蹤熱潮越來越熱雙北15間學校招生撞期,入局率低於兩成我們再來看一下各個學校的狀況你看媒體整理的資料像南山中學4000人報考入局1000人"},{"start":2224.973,"end":2250.249,"text":"因為他的學校的學生算多啦所以他入取率有到2成5但你看有的學校比如說像晉興入取27個人但是有450個人報考他入取率只有6%那其他包括像延平入取495人報考3300人延平的報考人數多到他必須要去跟其他學校去借考場"},{"start":2251.149,"end":2269.055,"text":"那這樣的一個失蹤熱潮,我們先問一下,請問一下那個部長或院長,你有注意到這個現象嗎?校園的安全我們是列在...你有注意到這個失效,大家擠破頭要進失效狀況,你有注意到這個現象嗎?擠破頭進失效我剛剛不是已經給你看過嗎?"},{"start":2270.902,"end":2297.693,"text":"你有沒有注意到這個現象剛剛委員有說我跟你講你還知道嗎我覺得這個是很嚴重的狀況當然我知道院長可能不是那麼關心教育但是教育是國家的根本那如果私校面臨到這個狀況當然你要去了解一下是什麼原因那為什麼會出現這個情形那部長您知道您知道這個狀況嗎我知道我知道特別原因是什麼台北市特別嚴重台北市特別嚴重原因是什麼"},{"start":2298.593,"end":2319.638,"text":"我想當然現在少子化嘛每一個小孩都是家庭的寶嘛那台北相對的家庭的一些經濟情況也比較好當然委員所關心的學校怎麼樣提供一個更友善的一個校園一個學習的環境教學的環境當然也是我們繼續來看剛剛部長有提到少子化我們接下來往下看"},{"start":2325.76,"end":2349.679,"text":"少子化公立國小的學生人數確實他在113年是下跌他從106到112公立學校的學生人數有往上但是到114年下跌但是私立國小學生人數是不斷的成長那實際上我們可以看到你現在看私中的小學生就讀的數據"},{"start":2351.111,"end":2376.507,"text":"就讀私立國小的學生從10年前2.8%現在已經到3.8%每26個國小生就有一位是讀私立國小但是就讀公立國小的學生從10年前11.7%現在是已經達到14.4%所以私中的或私小的學生他的就讀率提高這個是一個趨勢那真正原因是什麼呢"},{"start":2379.954,"end":2393.983,"text":"其實也有雜誌,感覺上你們也沒有很關心,我直接把答案告訴你我不是不關心,但我們尊重當我們的義務教育、教育這個公司的營運需求量的時候我們當然有許多的因素因為院教育是最高行政首長"},{"start":2400.166,"end":2425.834,"text":"院長是最高行政首長有的時候這些問題也不是教育部可以單一部會解決啦所以今天才要總諮詢來問啦所以請你尊重我我想要多一點時間去跟院長對話不知道部長這樣可以嗎那這個親子天下他有去訪問非常多的校長他得到一個結論就是為什麼大家都擠破頭要去失蹤呢有一個趨勢他說安全感是家長最在乎的關鍵字"},{"start":2426.974,"end":2447.482,"text":"那其中你看第一句話他講說校園安全是家長選校的首要考量換言之其實現在很多家長他要把小朋友送到什麼學校公校或私校其實他考慮的是我的小朋友送到學校裡面去安不安全會不會面臨到校園暴力這些狀況那我為什麼剛剛我講說"},{"start":2450.143,"end":2469.59,"text":"這個不是教育部一個單步可以解決的其實我是幫教育部講話啦我幫學校老師講話很多人只要發生這樣的事件第一個直覺就是校長沒有管好老師沒有管好校長出來道歉老師出來道歉或者是說要求教育部全面徹查全國的校安通報有沒有狀況"},{"start":2470.45,"end":2487.995,"text":"但有的時候並不是完全是學校可以處理的嘛比如說有一些他有校園暴力行為的這些學生他背後都有干戈啊背後都有干戈啊那我就問啊請問一個校長一個老師他怎麼獨自去面對有背後有干戈有干戈的這些學生"},{"start":2489.025,"end":2512.586,"text":"學校有辦法嗎?部長你認為學校老師或學校校長有辦法嗎?我想學校在這一個部分他過去也累積了一些經驗跟地方的這一個單位還有社工還有很多醫療我是說你認為學校老師學校當然沒有辦法獨立嘛獨立完成嘛他是整個社會體系嘛包括他結合社政結合警政甚至於家庭"},{"start":2513.166,"end":2528.777,"text":"都要一起努力嘛才有可能讓這種事情不是一再發生嘛所以第一個就是說不要完全去怪教育學校這是我幫學校老師講的話第二個當然也是要請部長希望能夠去統合就是各個資源讓這樣的問題不要再繼續發生那我自己是有"},{"start":2534.261,"end":2549.114,"text":"提一個法案我上次在質詢的時候我提兩個建議一個建議是說我希望說我們應該要成立一個專屬學校那個專屬學校提供資源或輔導資源讓這些可能在學校裡面他平常就帶刀械上課"},{"start":2549.835,"end":2572.451,"text":"或者是他有校園暴力行為,背後有乾哥乾姐的這種人他在學校裡面,一個學校只有一個,全校的師生都會受到影響那怎麼辦?好,那上一次院長、部長的回答是說沒關係我們會增加輔導資源啊,我們輔導很棒什麼但是沒有用就是沒有用,現在就是沒有用所以怎麼辦呢?其實我建議,就是說我們可以委託"},{"start":2573.7,"end":2598.583,"text":"很不錯的教育團體他成立一個專屬學校然後把這些在學校可能威脅其他師生生命安全的學生移到那個專屬學校去那大家會說強制他轉學是不是會造成其他學校的問題我再次強調不是轉到一般其他的學校因為轉到其他學校就是其他學校的問題我們是轉到一個專屬學校可以公辦民營或公辦公營"},{"start":2599.884,"end":2615.949,"text":"那這個部分教育部以前也有經驗啊就是譬如說以前你們有成立實驗學校那實驗學校還有各自的特色但我們這個學校就是加強輔導資源社官或各方面資源針對這些我剛剛講的那些可能會成為校園報應因子的這些學生"},{"start":2616.389,"end":2632.939,"text":"加強資源讓他制裁市所針對他們提供教育我的建議是這樣我不知道院長你認不認同這樣的方向細節我覺得我們可以討論那現在我們因為上次講教育部沒有動作所以我已經立專法那專法我們上次在委員會也開過公聽會"},{"start":2634.36,"end":2661.181,"text":"我不知道院長你支持這樣的方向很多對這種新少年或是其他行為療癒的過程當中我們都曾經說過回歸社區也許是一個比較崇高的理想但是對一個年輕人他人格的養成如果能夠他回歸社區回歸自然對他未來是有成長的空間比較好的所以我認為把它集中式的管理"},{"start":2662.469,"end":2685.079,"text":"不是見得是教育上最好的嗎你成立一個學校那就是基礎情況我覺得你們在談論事情永遠都是站在這些加害人的角度比如說他拿那個女棒去敲女學生的頭那個力道那個力道如果說沒有控制好的話女學生生命可能會喪失但是我在跟你討論說我在跟你討論說怎麼去解決類似這樣的一個校園問題但院長的回覆永遠都是說"},{"start":2691.482,"end":2709.753,"text":"那這些打人的學生,他不要回到社區嗎?他們的人權不重要嗎?他們的授教權不重要嗎?但是,那我就問啊,被打的學生他的授教權不重要嗎?打人的學生,他應該受到該有的校規法的制裁但是他繼續在校園裡面,成為大家恐懼的一個"},{"start":2710.433,"end":2730.625,"text":"一個對象所以你沒有辦法解決這個問題你現在我覺得我也很支持我認同你的部分觀點那些打人的學生拿鋁棒敲人的甚至於發生國三割喉案的那個兇手你們都希望說留在校園裡面他那一個人就是進到校園才殺人的"},{"start":2731.638,"end":2755.829,"text":"他就是進到校園來殺人的嘛我現在就是針對這一些他還沒有殺人因為他殺人才能被抓去關換句話說就是他們在學校裡面變成一個不定時炸彈可是什麼時候大家會他什麼時候會離開呢是等到他殺人他才能離開啊所以你現在就是等他你現在所有的家長都在想說他什麼時候離開他犯了法 嚴重的法律之後他才能離開"},{"start":2757.39,"end":2783.869,"text":"輔導的過程就是在針對這些輔導就是沒有用啦 院長輔導要是有用的話就不會發生這樣的事情那誰來決定說魔甲也要把它放到一個對 這細節部分我的專把裡面都有寫有專家 有教育部或者是像院長你關心教育的話你也可以參加來決定什麼樣那種當然不是所有的人你只要犯一點錯或什麼都把你離開 不是而是說真的要每天帶刀上課"},{"start":2785.03,"end":2809.779,"text":"如果一個班上有一個同學是每天帶蝴蝶刀上課是在課堂上耍弄蝴蝶刀你覺得在那個學校的師生不會緊張嗎老師學校的一些行政人員就應該有所警惕事先做好這些規範跟防範並且要全面的祭祀你現在又在把責任推給行政人員如果行政人員真的因為他背後都有乾哥乾姊我剛剛已經講了啦有的時候學校行政人員也沒有辦法處理啦"},{"start":2810.762,"end":2830.784,"text":"我先講說你認不認同嘛因為你是要保護絕大多數想要安心上學的學生然後讓他們的家長放心讓老師可以好好教書還是針對那一個兩個那帶刀械上課在學校會發生嚴重暴力但他一直在學校裡面的你是比較在乎誰嘛"},{"start":2831.405,"end":2848.257,"text":"有這種嚴重暴力的繼續留在學校當然不行啊謝謝院長所以他現在就是留在學校所以我才會提出一個專法那院長你剛剛的顧慮我覺得我們都可以細部的部分我們都可以來討論可是我希望在大方向上面可以得到你的支持"},{"start":2848.939,"end":2869.956,"text":"就是說針對這些你剛剛也有提到那些重大暴力但一直留在學校的我們可以另外成立專屬學校強制他轉學到那邊但那個學校也是學校喔那不是不是大家你想的那種好像是什麼集中管理集中營不是他也是一個學校你也可以108課綱他也可以各種得志體群美通通都可以"},{"start":2870.496,"end":2890.564,"text":"裡面誰來管這些比較有傾向的人所以它是一個學校學校當然就是你要找那種像我就有建議嘛你找那種就是有一些教育團體啊他們有很多理念也想實踐的啊以人為本的啊正向教育啊然後這個愛的教育啊然後讓他們覺得在這個地方感覺到很正向"},{"start":2891.224,"end":2919.872,"text":"他們那種暴力志氣就沒有了然後他們在那邊好好學習那原來的學校得到喘息這個兩全其美關於校園的安全我歡迎你提出任何的想法那這個經過大家審慎的討論專家、學者、團體、教育人員都好好的了解也跟家長也好好的了解我現在只是問你說這個大方向你支持如果你大方向支持的話大方向是維持校園的安全沒有人反對知不支持說針對那些有暴力的"},{"start":2920.692,"end":2945.718,"text":"可能會殺人的或可能會這個他的存在會讓其他師生感到恐懼的這些學生有暴力會殺人的不應該留在校園對你說的有暴力會殺人的有這種行為不該留在校園他如果有這種傾向你只說殺人的以後不該留在校園還是說他可能會殺人比如說他每天帶刀他也沒殺人啊但是他每天帶刀你也沒辦法拿怎麼樣啊"},{"start":2947.118,"end":2975.049,"text":"那這個行為如果去判斷要經過包括這個司法的犯罪學的還有心理學的還有大家去討論一下怎麼來界定這個行為謝謝院長其實院長你講的跟我的立法方向是大致上的一致因為我也是認為不應該誰怎麼樣隨便就把它斷掉但是如果像您剛剛出現的狀況如果連比如說司法的學者或者是犯罪學專家或者是很多都認為"},{"start":2976.33,"end":2991.424,"text":"他這種學生他還沒殺人但是他留在學校已經造成其他人的恐懼而且非常有可能他隨時有可能刀子就往別人身上捅了這種人我們把他強制轉學到我剛剛講的專屬學校制度可以好好討論因為我們已經公聽會了所以接下來細節"},{"start":2998.73,"end":3017.351,"text":"院長我們在一個會期間見你一次,希望你跟部長講一下,我們之後好好討論,院長大方向認同部長很關心教育,你不要開始說部長不關心教育沒有,我沒有說他,是你比較不關心,因為我剛剛問你說私立學校的狀況,你說你不知道"},{"start":3017.952,"end":3045.194,"text":"那但是現在所有家長都有注意到私立學校急破頭的狀況因為院長你可能國政大事太多教育比較放後面啦但是部長是很關心的啦教育最重要的國家的法制和法律院長對教育事實上是非常關心的包含教師的一個福利等等的都是在院長的指示校我們積極的去尋求解決的一些方案好謝謝好然後那再來齁"},{"start":3046.135,"end":3065.503,"text":"除了剛剛講的專訪因為院長認為大方向可行細節我們再來討論之外上個會期大概是十月的時候也有建議說校安人員可以增加現在高中的校安人員是六個班一個可是國中是六十個班一個而且也是爭取"},{"start":3066.303,"end":3086.409,"text":"很久才得到的這樣的一個那十月份的時候我有跟院長講說校園很重要那是不是可以我們一開始奢望說忽然很多人要錢嘛是不是可以再增加一位變成六十班兩位那我跟院長跟部長報告實際上那六十班增加那一位校園人員他在學校裡面已經發揮"},{"start":3087.449,"end":3112.569,"text":"我覺得很多校長都覺得說有這個人有這個還不錯啦譬如說他們可以幫忙巡堂他們可以有一些學生的小衝突他可以幫忙排解然後上下班的時候他們也可以幫忙跟我們報告我想國民教育主要的不是我們在卸責主要是在地方但是中央跟地方的共同合作以國教署我們現在目前"},{"start":3114.175,"end":3134.446,"text":"700多所的735所的國中我們已經提供了將近600所等於額外給他一個國中的這個所謂的校安行政人力所以超過8成以上所以我要談的是說我也希望地方也要看到問題也要共同來承擔來解決啊"},{"start":3140.009,"end":3152.064,"text":"你剛剛講的那一位校園委員就是我講的,就是六十班一位,是同一件事情我們現在討論說校園需不需要多一位我知道因為教育我是覺得是這樣子,我們討論這東西,我們現在討論該不該做"},{"start":3159.54,"end":3186.805,"text":"如果說該做的話,那當然教育部部長等一下好不好,我都還沒有講完好不好我都還沒講完,院長可不可以跟部長講一下,至少讓我把問題講完嘛部長的意思很清楚了,中央或是地方該不該做,地方早就該做我知道啦,我知道中央當然應該地方該做嘛,因為學校都是地方管的嘛但是今天因為我們教育部是主管全國的教育單位嘛"},{"start":3187.225,"end":3213.362,"text":"那如果教育部你認為站在全國的高度,這個事情是應該做的那教育部當然就應該跟地方政府協調嘛去跟地方政府說,我們覺得該做,那是不是可以增加對不對,你至少這個態度拿出來嘛至於說錢怎麼分,那大家可以再討論嘛那如果說我們在跟教育部反應的時候,教育部的第一個反應是說,那不關我,那地方的事我們已經做了60%一個,其他就是看地方啊"},{"start":3213.962,"end":3233.649,"text":"那我就覺得失去了教育部存在的意義啦我就覺得失去教育部存在的意義因為教育部本來就是應該站在全國的高度如果這個東西是全國都需要的話教育部就要去協調好了我覺得態度是這樣那接下來我們來討論這個事情該不該做所以我才會提到那一位消音人員他有幫到忙"},{"start":3234.309,"end":3255.723,"text":"那我希望爭取多一位那十月份的時候教育部因為總諮詢有回函然後最後給我的結論是講說因為其實跟你剛剛回答差不多就是說已經含尋各地方政府收集協助事項並於114學年上學期結束後檢討並適時滾動經濟本計劃相關措施那我想問一下因為你已經滾動是結討是上學期結束後"},{"start":3266.41,"end":3284.277,"text":"所以現在有在進行嗎我們這個校安人員一直都在想各式各樣的一個方法跟地方合作希望當然剛開始都是中央我們釋出善意而且來協助地方優先因為上學期結束後檢討上學期已經結束了我是想問說你們現在檢討的狀況是怎麼樣"},{"start":3293.209,"end":3311.306,"text":"這會後我再跟委員所以你不知道?好,那沒有關係,你會後再補資料給我那院長,這樣子,有一件事情我覺得以你的高度應該也可以來處理一下因為這個校安人員,撇開人數來講,他大概薪水是四萬"},{"start":3313.288,"end":3342.588,"text":"那我一直在想說如果有一些退休的軍職人員或退休的警職人員他如果進去學校願意當這個校安人員的話實際上因為他過去有受過相關的訓練也許在校安的維護上比一般沒有受過這樣的訓練的人可能會更好一點但是這些軍職人員警職人員他其實面臨到一個問題就是如果你是軍公教退休的話你再就業他會有一個薪資的上限那個上限是最低薪資"},{"start":3343.408,"end":3370.343,"text":"所以如果校安人員他的薪水是四萬多的話那他就沒有辦法來做這個工作但其實他們是適合的那我有一個建議啦其實跟教育部有關係最近發生一個現象謝謝教育部把那些就是代理老師或中年老師的這個中年費提高了嘛感謝大家爭取半天終於提高但我們覺得不夠啦如果更多會更好但是至少跨出第一步那現在因為在學校都缺老師"},{"start":3371.323,"end":3393.515,"text":"缺老師的情況之下有一些課就會找退休的老師回來帶課退休老師回來帶課他就是領終點費那結果終點費提高那這些老師帶的課以前可能比如說是一個數字但是現在因為提高所以他帶的課就變少因為他一下就已經突破他的那個在就業薪資的天花板"},{"start":3394.943,"end":3402.417,"text":"那就造成說學校又要再找其他的人來帶課那其實你讓退休老師回來帶課是一件很好的事情為什麼呢 因為"},{"start":3404.128,"end":3429.924,"text":"那些老師都有教學的經驗他只是退休了所以我一直在想說可不可以院長我之前在委員會也有跟人事總署但是每次再問都是在研議我們都不知道研議到什麼時候是不是請院長重視這個事情針對那些退休軍公教再就業把天花板提高甚至取消你看我剛剛講的你讓軍職或者是教官他們回來學校"},{"start":3431.025,"end":3459.753,"text":"當教安人員他就不受這個天花板的限制了還有剛剛戴克老師不受天花板限制這個第一個可以解決教學現場的人力問題第二個我覺得從正當性來講因為當初訂定這個天花板在年改之前那你後來也年改了他的退休金也沒有領得像之前這麼多所以你讓他再就業的薪資提高我覺得是說得過去還有一個就是說你不是憑白屋給他錢他其實是後來付出勞力貢獻社會取得的報酬"},{"start":3460.433,"end":3480.556,"text":"那這個部分你就算不給這些退休的軍公教做你請一個一般的人勞工也是要付一樣的薪水對國家也沒有損失所以我想說從這幾個面向是不是院長可以跟人事總處教育部研究一下像這些退休的軍公教回到校園甚至回到其他的領域"},{"start":3481.497,"end":3503.416,"text":"做服務的話可以取消或是拉高他的薪資上限不知道月朗可以嗎在教師能力目前上有考量的時候這不是一個好方法而且已經在執行了委員現在重視的時候他回來繼續上課關於這個人事制度上這個費用薪資怎麼計算那請這個將來要不要整個人事制度的調整"},{"start":3504.076,"end":3522.202,"text":"我跟委員報告一下大概分兩個部分一個部分這個牽涉到我們要再跟全區部談另外一個就剛才委員有特別提到我們內部會從調高他的待遇的部分我們去做一些努力"},{"start":3523.32,"end":3550.3,"text":"調高待遇什麼意思調高他薪資上限是不是大概會調高多少我現在沒有辦法給你一個明確的數字大概調高多少嘛沒有 現在我們還在計算我覺得就衡量我剛剛講的幾個因素好不好就是說把他調高他上限然後讓他至少可以回到校園嘛"},{"start":3551.729,"end":3570.519,"text":"因為我們現在我在質詢教育的議題啦,我是要解決教育現場的問題啦好不好,院長是不是可以幫忙盯一下這個事情我們可以這樣說,如果我們調高一些老師的待遇,不要因為調高待遇影響現在在進行當中的不是不是,我先講的不是,你還沒有提到我們質詢的議題啦放棄我們調高的待遇,讓他課變少了啊"},{"start":3576.403,"end":3589.461,"text":"我現在講的是我們是希望調高老師待遇啦而且是越高越好 別人現在少吃話我現在是針對退休軍公教的部分如果退休軍公教他再就業他會有一個薪資的上限"},{"start":3590.342,"end":3606.677,"text":"是針對退休會超過所以我現在是針對退休軍公教希望把他的天花板把它打開所以我說我們調高待遇不要去影響現在已經在執行剛剛委員說的那個部分我們來做一個合理的這個檢討還有像剛剛講那個校安就是校安也可以一併來解決這樣好那接下來想問一下那個核電的問題我很快因為我時間"},{"start":3615.044,"end":3638.673,"text":"已經剩2分鐘,我很快問一下,請問一下院長,我們現在要重啟核二核三嘛,還要經過相當的程序,3月底要送再運轉計畫,我肯定啦,因為說實在的,那時候我們在通過核管法的時候,我們被亂罵一通,還成為被罷免的理由啦,但是核管法實際上只是讓核二核三可以重啟法規鬆綁,"},{"start":3640.314,"end":3657.535,"text":"不會送到縣市但至於說到底最後要不要送再運轉計畫決定權其實在台電跟經濟部跟行政院所以台電願意所以所以呢我肯定因為你願意送這個計畫代表說你其實也想試試看能不能重啟"},{"start":3658.636,"end":3678.423,"text":"你想試試看,這已經...因為已經過了40年這個必須處理的年...對對對,就是說你願意送因為以前廢核家園是講到核都很害怕嘛,說不行不行這個怎麼還有人講到什麼國安問題什麼之類的那你現在願意送,代表你願意試我,這個我肯定但是行政院又講了一個三原則啦一個原則是"},{"start":3679.483,"end":3695.062,"text":"核安無虞然後第二個叫核廢有解第三個叫社會共識核安因為核安會會審核安我們尊重專業社會共識其實這是一個伴隨而來的原則就是你只要告訴大家核安無虞核廢又有解我相信社會就會高度共識"},{"start":3695.703,"end":3716.561,"text":"所以我覺得關鍵是核廢,因為我在這幾天我還是聽到民進黨很多立委說你放心啦,核二核才不會重啟啊,不然核廢料要放你家嗎?核廢料要放你業人之家嗎?我家,我就常常被嗆這件事啊如果核廢料可以放我家,我家早就滿了啦核廢料當然是要經過專業的處理,但是我想問院長,因為院長我需要一個具體的回答"},{"start":3717.242,"end":3744.666,"text":"核二按照台電的規劃核三按照台電的規劃最快最快是一個核三是2028可以重啟最快我現在我沒有辦法講最快或是最慢因為在審查的過程他的老化他的太舊院長那我想問一下如果核安沒問題然後核廢有解的定義是什麼是要最終處置長出來嗎還是其實放到幹事處審查就可以其實最終處置長不因為是核二核三是否重啟而存在他一直都在一直都在那核廢有解"},{"start":3757.42,"end":3767.934,"text":"好 謝謝葉委員也謝謝卓院長下一位請邱毅英委員質詢好 我們請邱毅英委員質詢"},{"start":3793.282,"end":3797.253,"text":"好 謝謝主席我是不是請一下卓院長請卓院長對詢"},{"start":3807.597,"end":3831.968,"text":"邱委員好院長早院長我想剛剛葉委員在問到這個有關校園安全的議題那從此在今天我其實比較關心的是國家安全的議題我想還是要來請教一下院長軍購案其實現在在立法院的這個正在如火如荼的審查"},{"start":3832.864,"end":3849.117,"text":"我們來看一下去年我們提出的軍購案之後其實包括台灣包括行政院一直不斷的在跟立法院做溝通甚至連美方都一直不斷的透過各種管道來跟立法院做溝通你看到這張照片"},{"start":3850.018,"end":3870.289,"text":"CAT在今年的2月27號拜會了韓國瑜院長韓院長也很大方甚至也很公開的說他會將國防特別條例列為最優先的議案所以我相信現在立法院開始進行審查韓院長應該是功不可沒"},{"start":3871.394,"end":3899.726,"text":"好這個美國的AIT呢在這一段時間之內接二連三不斷的在他們的臉書上發文我想這些應該院長您都有掌握甚至在昨天美國的跨黨派聯邦的參議員直接搭乘專機就到台灣來拜訪很顯然美方非常高度重視台灣的安全以及自我防衛的能力但是"},{"start":3901.138,"end":3925.727,"text":"我為什麼講說台灣的國家安全在這個時候特別重要在美方多次表達關切而且在立法院在進行軍購特別條例的審查的時候好奇怪昨天晚上昨天早上中國竟然片面的就公佈了他們要邀請鄭麗文率團去訪問中國"},{"start":3927.89,"end":3953.955,"text":"所有的東西由中方來安排由鄭麗文率團去訪問中國院長我想特別請教您喔在這樣的一個敏感的時候鄭麗文當然她上任黨主席之後不斷地強調她希望到中國去訪問可是呢中國早不宣布晚不宣布就在立法院要處理軍購案的時候就在美國的聯邦參議員來到台灣的時候"},{"start":3957.508,"end":3978.992,"text":"這個出其不意的來了一個宣布說他要邀請鄭麗文去那鄭麗文要率團去院長您的內心是什麼樣的想法到底這個時候去是統戰被摸頭還是鄭麗文能夠表達什麼樣的意思來院長我想聽一下您的看法"},{"start":3981.065,"end":4006.364,"text":"黨的事務我實在不予多說但是牽涉到國家跟國安跟國家的法律我們必須提醒任何時間去到對岸去進行任何的交涉都必須遵守我們兩岸關係條例當中的規定但是什麼時間是由兩個黨互相去談好的一次的巧合可能會變成歷史上很多的因素就像4月7號"},{"start":4008.342,"end":4019.618,"text":"我們是言論自由日卻去到一個言論不自由的國家也是對方在安排的這明顯就是在挑動國內的神經院長你講得很好"},{"start":4020.768,"end":4040.185,"text":"挑這個4月7號的確它是一個特別的日子但是挑這一段時間所有的行程規劃內容談判甚至鄭麗文主席要率團去她會率哪些人去不知道我不知道我們行政院有沒有講過但是無論率哪些人有多少人"},{"start":4040.825,"end":4057.101,"text":"有沒有立法院的委員有沒有國防委員會的委員去那裡要跟人家談什麼是不是能夠公開透明我想在立法院裡頭藍白兩黨的委員一直不斷的批評我們的對美談判說我們不夠公開透明"},{"start":4057.822,"end":4072.798,"text":"那請問一下在這麼敏感的時間點去到了中國要求他公開透明過不過分要求他公開透明是不是應該這是一個很合理的事情院長"},{"start":4073.709,"end":4091.118,"text":"無論是多少人或是哪些特定人這些任何人或這個團體都不得與對岸進行正式性的協議也不得談到涉及與政府安全的相關問題你講說不得與對岸進行政治性的協議門關起來你怎麼知道他談了什麼"},{"start":4091.678,"end":4111.177,"text":"而且在這麼敏感的時間點門關起來我都不知道會不會把這些立法委員如果有去的話或者是隨團去的人會不會把在立法院拿到的這些所謂的機密資料全數貢獻給中國全數輸成 全數繳卸 木偶會有沒有掌握這些資訊來 請教"},{"start":4113.499,"end":4133.346,"text":"謝謝邱委員對這個事情的關切我想剛剛院長也提到任何團體赴中國參訪如果沒有政府的授權不能與中國進行涉及政治性的協議以及與政府相關公權力的事項"},{"start":4134.566,"end":4150.992,"text":"違反著我們依照第五條違反兩條第五條之一處罰如果嚴重情形嚴重的話有五年以下的有期徒刑我擔心的不是他去跟中國談任何的協議習近平怎麼會跟鄭麗文這種小咖談協議呢"},{"start":4152.612,"end":4180.171,"text":"習近平就直接下指令啊我擔心的是去那裡領旨回來之後繼續顛覆政府繼續擾亂政府繼續弱化台灣的國防這個才是我們所擔心的你擔不擔心這一點我很擔心其實跟委員報告我剛剛也在外面說我們呼籲中國國民黨復入一定要注意不要落入中國統戰分化的陷阱"},{"start":4180.771,"end":4189.765,"text":"一方面對台灣是迫害我們的團結動搖我們的民心士氣二方面是向國際社會傳遞錯誤的訊息誤導國際社會這個對台灣的生存發展影響甚巨"},{"start":4196.601,"end":4211.083,"text":"我想我們講的這些宣示國民黨大概也都聽懂但是他不一定會照做那對他來講對鄭麗文來講或者是對跟著去的親中的這些人來講他的主子叫習近平"},{"start":4211.744,"end":4230.856,"text":"他認同的不是中華民國不是台灣他只是來顛覆台灣的內政只是來弱化台灣所以我想也要請未來這一段時間不管是國防陸委會我想要請行政院要密切關注對於被中國統戰這一件事情"},{"start":4231.776,"end":4250.467,"text":"現在是堂而皇之的進行對於台灣的軍購對於台灣的自我防衛能力這一件事情我想還是要請國防部我們還是要全力的捍衛唯有這樣子台灣才能從這個困境裡頭走出來啊院長這個也是我希望行政團隊能夠"},{"start":4252.719,"end":4269.656,"text":"站比較強硬的態度去面對這件事情院長你同意嗎好的也請委員一起我們對國家跟國人是有信心的從歷次相關的調查當中在台灣的人的國人都不會贊成所謂的九二共識是成為"},{"start":4270.757,"end":4283.186,"text":"大家的共識是不會的也沒有全世界都奉行什麼一中這個對這次的訪問來講如果戴著這兩個帽子去戴著一中戴著九二而去那註定這場談判對台灣是不會有利的"},{"start":4285.799,"end":4300.38,"text":"其實要密切觀察國民黨現在內部已經分成兩派包括朱立倫 包括盧秀燕都支持台灣的軍購都支持我們提出來軍購但是鄭麗文 傅坤祺這一派的人是完全聽令於中國"},{"start":4301.241,"end":4324.929,"text":"所以我覺得應該密切觀察4月7號誰跟著鄭麗文去去到那裡說了哪些話回來又有哪些的行為表現其實就可以很清楚知道誰是賣台之人我想這一些部分可能要請行政院要密切的觀察注意好 那這個國防部跟陸委會請回我接下來要請教院長在國家的能源議題上面"},{"start":4325.569,"end":4341.944,"text":"我想在這個戰略思考上不只是武器能源議題其實也是一個很重要的一個戰略站在一個非常重要的戰略位置喔院長現在這個中東的戰火我想波及的不是只有塑膠袋買不到"},{"start":4343.145,"end":4367.761,"text":"對於台灣來說或者是對於全球來說能源的負擔能源的佔比其實是大幅大幅的增加我們現在的一艘液化天然氣LNG船當然我前兩天在詢問經濟部的時候他們跟我說已經掉貨至少到六月以前都是安全無虞但是一艘LNG船要十億是多十億多多十億"},{"start":4369.602,"end":4387.681,"text":"要多了10億所以到6月就會增加大概要多花了200多億元這對中友來講是一個很重大的財政負擔所以中友有增資的這個急迫性的壓力院長你怎麼看"},{"start":4389.269,"end":4415.434,"text":"在台灣現在的天然氣佔比大概是超過百分之 將近百分之五十所以我們的能源佔比能源的配比上面 策略上面是不是要去做一些調整我問過工部長 工部長說過去我們的確沒有這一方面的所謂的政策調整那未來呢 或者是現在呢是不是應該要開始去思考我們的能源佔比到底"},{"start":4416.826,"end":4439.894,"text":"未來是低碳優先成本優先還是韌性優先到底我們的能源戰略是什麼我們過去從50 30 20現在50天然氣我們還是維持但30 20對調我們把綠能增加到30把燒煤降到20希望這個目標能夠達到那天然氣它當然有儲存上比較"},{"start":4440.814,"end":4455.121,"text":"急迫性的一些問題像現在我們法定11天認為不夠所以我們已經之前就著手準備要多增加一些必要的除氣槽來增加法定安全的儲量同樣的如果現在"},{"start":4456.121,"end":4482.916,"text":"因為其他的因素包括國際的因素包括戰爭的因素包括我們整個AI快速成長的因素我們還有各種可能的能源來源的時候我們不放棄不放棄就剛剛委員跟您所提到的就核能的問題傳統核能跟新式核能總統說要核綠共行核綠並行但是你現在如果要重啟核電你還需要做過很長一段時間的安全評估"},{"start":4483.616,"end":4498.882,"text":"那就現在的這個大環境之下核綠共行的可行性跟可以實施的期程能夠掌握嗎我們現在最終還是依二次能源轉型這個目標但是如果多一項的選擇我們多做一些準備這些準備"},{"start":4499.862,"end":4519.239,"text":"當有需要的時候我們不會讓我們以後的人發生束手無策所以我們現在多做一些準備但這個準備新式核能可能還有一段時間那傳統核能能否重啟它有很多條件必須完成現在都是未知狀態我們把它啟動這個程序是希望在未來有多一種可能的選項"},{"start":4520.117,"end":4534.365,"text":"院長我很謝謝您的這樣的一個回答多做一點準備甚至提早做準備都是好的啦但是現在很快的面臨到了這個能源的問題我想不是現在提早做準備而是要提早因應"},{"start":4535.726,"end":4556.937,"text":"所有因為戰爭所帶來的全球的這個能源的危機跟台灣的能源配比上面我們的電網韌性上面電力韌性上面到底足不足夠我想這個是一個很重要的議題那您講到提前準備這件事情我還要再接下來問一個跟建設重大建設有關來經濟部可以請回"},{"start":4558.342,"end":4587.797,"text":"院長我想高雄您大概也去過很多次這個我讓您稍微簡單看一下這個是我當立委到現在為高雄爭取的重大建設國道10號延伸台39線就是高鐵橋下的道路南沿跟台86線的道路南沿我為什麼特別講這個東西你不要覺得它很local2012年開始我開始就任立委之後到高雄當選之後我開始來推動國道10號延伸一路這樣子"},{"start":4588.277,"end":4602.037,"text":"努力到2023年第一階段動工2024年第二階段動工到2030年才可以全線通車如果從2012年我開始推到2030年這中間經過了17年"},{"start":4604.6,"end":4632.845,"text":"台39的橋下道路這個高鐵道阿聯這一段呢2006年通車之後我們就開始不斷的來開始提出希望台39的橋下平面道路能夠來完成現在呢到我很感謝林佳龍部長2025年的時候林部長在那個之前2023年的時候部長呢林部長同意要來做這件事情所以2025年開始做可行性評估預計要到2033年"},{"start":4634.525,"end":4648.38,"text":"才會完工台86命運更坎坷了2012年開始規劃然後呢覺得沒有經濟效益到2019年在我不斷的爐之下2019年重新開啟這個計畫預計2028年動工不是完工是動工"},{"start":4654.261,"end":4667.987,"text":"我要提的就是說這一些重大的交通建設動輒要花十幾年規劃然後才動工我都沒有給你寫到後面完工的日程"},{"start":4669.181,"end":4695.922,"text":"所以我常常在想國內的重大的建設往往都要花費這麼久這麼久的時間我們投入了一千億其實都是在完成過去十年的規劃都是在完成過去十年的規劃如果依照您剛剛在能源配比的邏輯上面我們要提早準備的話為什麼我們不能往後看十年往後看二十年呢我去年提出的小港機場改建"},{"start":4697.293,"end":4711.788,"text":"陳其邁昨天也有講一次小港機場需要一個24小時的國際機場高雄需要一個24小時的國際機場一年過去了規劃的進度到哪裡我到現在還沒看到院長我真的期許往前"},{"start":4734.673,"end":4739.075,"text":"好,謝謝邱委員,謝謝卓院長下一位請林倩琦委員質詢"},{"start":4759.167,"end":4761.373,"text":"好 謝謝主席我請卓院長 謝謝卓院長請備詢"},{"start":4775.316,"end":4796.633,"text":"本席一開始要來為蒼生請命本席現在先就金公教的這個相關預算的這個編列來請教院長跟人事長那麼最近預算卡關那本席這邊要跟你們提醒其實問題是出在行政院沒有依法來完整編列預算"},{"start":4797.293,"end":4814.206,"text":"去年其實立法院就已經通過了軍人加薪景銷退休的這個保障還有停侃年金的這些重要法案但是行政院沒有把應該編的編上結果國會沒有辦法審然後國會呢在今年又顧及了民生需求通過了718億的這個預算"},{"start":4817.408,"end":4835.034,"text":"行政院也選擇不來執行你們說很急著要用錢可是又不執行我們過的預算這個部分是不是可以請你先做一個回應委員應該非常清楚身為立法委員立法院跟行政院的職權是什麼"},{"start":4836.218,"end":4843.284,"text":"行政院是編定預算 立法院是審議預算如果立法院可以以行政院編預算就破壞了全立法院的原則"},{"start":4851.431,"end":4867.246,"text":"院長我沒有替你們編預算我沒有提醒你們應該要編的要編上那我們都在合法的基礎上大家才能夠來往前走對不對所以齁最近也有我們會長的大佬齁布朗大議員說得很好是不是應該要把"},{"start":4870.63,"end":4877.578,"text":"應該編的趕快編上 讓所有應該進行的進行那包括立法院已經給你們的718億成本預算就是應該編的 我們已經編了3兆零350億"},{"start":4889.131,"end":4914.837,"text":"那在大法官解釋還沒有出來之前我們就依法來處理好嗎好 因為本席這邊也要來針對軍公教的待遇調整法制化的這個進程來做一下這個進度那過去我們在這個軍公教的條性常常都是一個個案處理的方式那沒有一個明確的法制的這個依據那麼常常爭議就會反覆出現所以本席這邊來要求軍公教的這個法制化的作業"},{"start":4916.137,"end":4937.568,"text":"趕快來送審但是呢在去年我相信林市長我們知道也很有誠意把該做的都做了但是呢我們也談到最後一里路遲遲好像都沒有到達那這個最後一里路離去年我們在10月份提到這件事大概又已經有半年了那目前的進度是如何所以居民教人員待遇條例什麼時候要送進立法院院長"},{"start":4941.24,"end":4961.769,"text":"我跟委員報告一下因為這個考慮到有一些不同的面向因為現有的機制當然陳如委員講的如果法治的話的話就是把一些遊戲規則更加的明確目前大家有關心的我們都有找每一年的條帶都有找基層的公教人員"},{"start":4962.749,"end":4987.988,"text":"所以這個部分也蠻重要的因為這個過程當中那更基層的一個人員來參與決策的過程的一個人數的擴大我想應該也是在考量的但最重要就是說我相信您大概也做到一個階段那我們希望這個最後一里路能夠趕快來實踐好不好那您也要多保重要為國珍重加油啦最後一里路走快一點好不好"},{"start":4989.426,"end":5018.375,"text":"接下來本席要跟人事長請回接下來的這個部分本席先跟院長這邊分享一下本席今年在農曆過年前去了一次所謂的西亞就是大家比較習慣知道的中東但是以台灣的觀點它在我們西邊就是西亞所以也很巧的這次美伊戰爭所打到的國家正好本席都在過年前去了"},{"start":5018.975,"end":5047.368,"text":"那本席去的最主要有兩件事情一個是參加比賽然後第二個部分是做國會交流那本席也很高興這次參加的這個賽事那也有幸能夠得到名次那拿那個銀牌也很高興那有一些朋友謝謝有一些朋友也藉此機會大家會交流這個運動健身得獎的一些經驗所以本席認為整個運動政策做好的話其實是可以激起很大的一個聯誼"},{"start":5049.029,"end":5070.284,"text":"尤其是近幾年中華隊在國際的賽事也有很亮眼的成績不論是奧運、亞運或者是各項國際的比賽我們一直突破紀錄也藉此讓世界看到了我們所以本席這次在整個西亞的賽事當中其實看到很多東西包括剛才您可能看到的那一張PPT"},{"start":5072.366,"end":5089.06,"text":"本席很訝異西亞這些國家竟然在運動賽事不僅是本席在一些傳播媒體上有看到然後親身的經驗上也令我非常的訝異所以除了本席參加的那個賽事對於本席是到阿聯酋去參加"},{"start":5089.861,"end":5118.511,"text":"那阿聯酋竟然能夠提供這樣相關的這個設備有非常的驚訝那另外在賽事的過程當中本席也去做了運動城市的一個觀摩結果發現哇他們不僅在一些一些項目上竟然走得這麼快那甚至也很壓抑啦比如說剛才我們可能看到一張圖這個是他們的配鬥球那我不知道部長您知不知道台灣配鬥球目前有幾個球場確實不太清楚"},{"start":5121.043,"end":5140.719,"text":"台灣的球場目前比較侷限目前有兩座本席在西亞就看到了一百多座所以要達到一個運動首都的格局我們還是有一些路要走不僅是這樣配鬥球也是今年民國亞運的項目所以您要注意一下"},{"start":5141.42,"end":5167.788,"text":"好 那接下來呢其實不僅在這個城市的觀摩上那本席也正好在80王國也碰到了我們這個羽球隊我們的這個智障羽球隊那有機會為他們加油所以非常的感動那也因為這樣原因其實對於場館 設施跟許多周邊的整個發展本席有很深的這個接觸所以這邊要提供一些經驗讓這個運動部這邊來做參考"},{"start":5171.449,"end":5194.276,"text":"所以接下來本席要講的是本席結果發現西亞國家是怎麼做的所以基本上台灣的運動體系的改進空間我們是不是可以考量運動行政跟訓練基地的一個連結那麼運動員退役以後要怎麼樣精進跟支持我想這個是很重要的"},{"start":5194.776,"end":5218.294,"text":"但是呢 台灣的運動政策 我們現在從選手培訓那本席私下跟你的交流 其實知道你很有心希望能夠把運動推到全民化那怎麼樣來成為一個運動 來推動整個運動發展體系那這個體系要有一個基礎 就像剛才本席所講的本席發現 我們不太注意的這些國家竟然可以有這樣的規格 本席自己的賽事"},{"start":5219.034,"end":5242.263,"text":"還有整個城市的賽事本席就發現它其實在整個運動聚落上的建立是很重要的一個部分所以包括國家運動訓練中心等等跟國家運動的場館行政跟場館的合一然後觀光的推動其實對整個城市有很大的影響"},{"start":5243.163,"end":5260.388,"text":"所以本席從這個經驗來講那是不是可以跟您分享一下那目前我們在整個台灣我先講一下這個中東的這個經驗也是西亞的經驗我們看到沙烏地阿拉伯有推動大型的體育城的計畫"},{"start":5261.368,"end":5290.379,"text":"那卡達透過Aspire Zone的模式來整合體育行政運動學院及世界級的場館我們也在幾年前卡達主辦的足球賽看到它的量能包括交通也是還有中東地區在國際賽事的持續提升它其實在奧運的這個田徑項目還有亞洲盃的足球賽或大型賽事的一個舉辦甚至剛才本席講的我們臺灣只有兩面球場的配鬥球"},{"start":5290.959,"end":5318.612,"text":"跟他們有一百多面球場的配鬥球甚至這個是亞運的項目那我們各類賽事在國際的一個穩定國際規格的穩定成長應該是我們作為一個運動政策很重要的一個節點所以北行鄉請教院長未來運動部有沒有可能參考國際的經驗來思考將行政跟償還整合的運動治理模式來評估運動行政與國家訓練基地整合設置的可能性"},{"start":5320.833,"end":5333.203,"text":"謝謝委員帶來很多其他國家在運動推動上面的一些讓我們可以學習了解的知識那每個國家都有他獨特的特性每個強項或是國民所熱愛的這個運動的品項是不一樣的"},{"start":5335.985,"end":5353.666,"text":"讓我們願意接觸更多在我們傳統強項之外接觸更多的新興項目你講到這個我還想到這次在阿布達比的比賽他們真的也有傳統的項目喔就是那幾個傳統項目對我們來講很特別而且他舉辦的場地對於大家來講也是一種新的認識包括"},{"start":5354.347,"end":5372.509,"text":"本席比的帆船比的是國際規格的單一船型但是在這個阿布達比其實對於這個阿聯酋傳統的項目他也有這樣子一個帆船賽那你講到這個傳統項目本席也是非常的認同所以希望未來有機會原住民的相關的這個"},{"start":5374.571,"end":5393.797,"text":"傳統項目也應該納入在國際比賽的規格裡面謝謝您這邊的一個提醒所以這個國際經驗是有的所以這個我們不太注意的這個地方竟然有這樣一個量能真的是值得我們做一個學習那所以本席其實講的是說那場館跟行政的合一你們真的應該來考量一下"},{"start":5394.517,"end":5420.708,"text":"如果運動部能夠遷到高雄的話或許也有這樣一個推動跟條件跟帶動的一個機會所以本期這邊在設施的強化上來提三個面向那你們考量一下好不好在這個城市場館的這個量能那各類運動場的場地數那包括承辦各種不同賽事的一個條件來串聯國家運動園區那包括高雄的這個男子左營還有這個"},{"start":5422.249,"end":5438.423,"text":"林亞鳳山等等橋頭其實現在聯動的一個科技園區大家其實有這樣一個需求你知道嗎那其實也有這樣一個條件就本席觀察杜拜跟阿布達比的一個經驗第二個部分是我相信部長應該也蠻認同的"},{"start":5440.905,"end":5462.055,"text":"因為你們去年編了一筆跟國際賽事有關的經費所以看起來你們應該在國際賽事的承辦上也一直有一些想法所以高雄自從2009年試運之後其實我們國家體育館也持續的爭取辦理國際的賽事包括足球、橄欖球、田徑等那麼這些都符合國家場館的"},{"start":5464.657,"end":5485.1,"text":"規劃跟設計但是近年來整個市民主場館在本席在高雄的觀察經常承辦很多大型的演唱會商業的藝文活動變成了一個主軸當然好好的活用是一件事但是重點是說但因為這樣子像113年我們有發生跑道受損的事件"},{"start":5485.72,"end":5505.802,"text":"然後後來還有這個紐西蘭的國家隊來到台灣發現這個運動場其實是會讓他們的選手受傷所以本席這邊要來提醒還搭載我們自己在這個113年高雄市中美學校運動會的田徑項目竟然發生跑道嚴重的損害結果還要蓋棋"},{"start":5507.865,"end":5522.227,"text":"藝文活動當然很好本席是學藝術文化的當然也很支持但是很重要的是運動場館是不是應該來優先確保運動產業的基礎那才能夠真正長期的發展然後來帶動都市的永續"},{"start":5523.368,"end":5547.364,"text":"第三個部分是專業運動設施的系統性規劃其實是可以從這邊做一個演展本席來就叫部長高雄現在的各類場館與球場網球場的數量是不是足夠來支撐國際賽事還包括新興的項目比如說哪天我們有機會來玩配鬥球高雄就沒有場地我們如果打網球我不知道現在網球又改成皮克球的球場有多少"},{"start":5548.044,"end":5563.924,"text":"那棒球的部分本席從小一直看到大本席念前進國小前進國中所以一直看著那個立的棒球場從過去的榮景那中間的一個調整一直到未來還不知道要怎麼發展那本席看到前幾天在台南這個國際的球場"},{"start":5565.686,"end":5582.106,"text":"的這樣一個盛況不僅讓本席想起那高雄的立德棒球場是不是可以也藉這個機會成為一個運動首都整個建設的其中一環讓我們好好的再把它這個運動的基礎設施還有賽事的承辦能力來帶動商業發展"},{"start":5584.248,"end":5600.04,"text":"讓高雄成為一個有趣的城市一個運動首都不曉得你們的看法我等一下請部長說明我們成立運動部最主要是推動全民運動還要加強適應體育所以全民運動一定要在社區有更多的運動的場地可以讓更多的人來學習"},{"start":5601.201,"end":5617.308,"text":"你說高雄的部分 高雄我們已經有左營中心確實那就是一個我們奪金計劃的重鎮他是奪金計劃嘛所以我們都仰望這個金讓這個金來帶動全民的體育我想這應該是很有份量所以高雄左線中心已經是非常大的規模了"},{"start":5617.989,"end":5626.901,"text":"而且我們國家科學運動中心也都在那邊這個左訓中心也非常非常的關注部長您就在訓練然後所有技術嘛對不對這個4年的計畫請部長來說明他怎麼來看所有的場地的這個興建跟維護"},{"start":5634.292,"end":5655.044,"text":"所以部長那在高雄如果我們在整個系統性的場館設施那連同左營的這樣一個計畫我們知道你們現在有一些建設在裡面那所以帶動了整個城市的這個發展我們有沒有可能運動部到高雄有沒有可能藉這個機會然後讓南部大南部地區從高雄拓展出去然後成為一個運動的新興城市呢"},{"start":5655.804,"end":5671.95,"text":"跟委員報告那當然這邊非常感謝行政院在我們運動部成立之後其實在優化全民運動賽事這個計畫其實一直都有在支持那我們當然就如同委員所講的其實不只是高雄我覺得我們很多地方的設施設備其實都有需要優化而且興建的可能性"},{"start":5672.851,"end":5700.693,"text":"對 謝謝你把這個列為一個政策的重點那最重要就是說 那思考一下運動部南遷 然後來帶動周邊包括高雄 還有包括其他城市的一個運動的全民賽事跟運動的這個全民化 好不好您是不是做個思考 然後回去考慮一下我說高雄它已經有左訓中心那我們全國也不一定就是集中在高雄甚至我現在是要想我們這樣好的場館跟管理 跟未來培訓我們往東部來發展"},{"start":5702.115,"end":5725.075,"text":"謝謝 那如果你們有這樣一個想法我覺得也是可以研議然後我們再來做討論但是給你們一個思維就是說是不是可以這個走出台北然後有一些其他的一個發展然後甚至目前高雄因為是最聚焦嘛它能夠成為運動首都的可能性也很高那如果從高雄再帶動到東部我想這是一個很不錯的方向"},{"start":5725.635,"end":5737.861,"text":"我們可以來做均衡的發展謝謝那接下來本席有一點還跟運動有關但是基本上本席要談的是原住民的教育那"},{"start":5739.537,"end":5761.247,"text":"本席先談這一個部分其實本席關注的是原住民族的科技教育但是跟運動部最直接相關的就是那運動部你們成立之後有這個運動科學中心對不對那你們也知道原住民的運動員其實在整個運動的發展上我們有很多的選手甚至帶動了也有很傑出的教練對不對"},{"start":5762.788,"end":5784.579,"text":"所以在整個運動科技人才的發展跟運動部直接相關就是我們是不是可以在運動科技的部分加強強化深化跟讓他更廣有更多的人來參與運動科技那比如說這個本席先前就已經有更貴單位談到的運動分析師資料分析師"},{"start":5785.799,"end":5807.904,"text":"這樣一個名額運動資料分析師的一個名額他基本上就有點像情搜的這個部分也很感謝部裡面給我們一些名額給原住民一些名額但是我們希望那個名額能夠再多你們目前在今年本席跟你們談的是一個旗艦計畫你們可不可以在這個旗艦計畫上先訓練出一批不錯的原住民"},{"start":5808.644,"end":5832.395,"text":"然後再由原住民再去帶動這樣運動科技的人才那最近的我們知道很直接的就是運動數據分析師這樣一個訓練那是不是也請你們在48人裡面可以多給我們一些這個名額那目前我們知道至少保證兩位嘛那是不是可以再更擴大讓我們在整個運動科技上能夠不要在別人之後面 好不好"},{"start":5834.2,"end":5859.586,"text":"跟委員報告那當然原住民這一點是我們非常重視的一點因為我們非常多的比如說棒球的選手那真的是來自原住民所以我相信他們在賽事上有很好的表現那我們在講他未來的一個發展讓我們在運動科技上不要缺席好嗎然後在旗艦的這個訓練計畫裡面也給我們多一些支持我們要非常珍惜感謝原住民朋友在國家體育上面優異的表現這次的國家棒球隊有16名原住民的同"},{"start":5862.328,"end":5884.767,"text":"數量非常高我們關注的不是只有他們在舞台上的表現而是他們整個人生的發展這才是原住民生活的驕傲培訓計畫對於原民朋友我覺得不需設底線也不要設上限優秀的人我們就會把他納入到整體的計畫當中這個最直接的就是運動分析師的名額可以多給我們一些也感謝部里目前的支持今年至少給我們兩名"},{"start":5885.948,"end":5903.534,"text":"我們希望能夠再更多好嗎好謝謝那接下來就我們來談部長請回應該接下來我們是談原住民的整個科技的這個發展那個院長部長那個原住民整個的科技計畫是本席希望在未來原住民五年計畫裡面"},{"start":5904.454,"end":5928.405,"text":"的一個重點項目那我們知道原住民在運動的部分有很好的一個表現那相信在藝術文化上也有不錯的表現但是呢本席在跟考試院跟相關的這個部會在討論的時候其實像考試院我們也很高興他們最近終於也研擬出來怎麼樣讓這個公務人員的名額跟我們的原專班做一個對接我想他們現在應該有一些對策了"},{"start":5929.085,"end":5953.783,"text":"那接下來就是本席所談的本席從一進立法院其實就談了這個議題也就是原住民如何作為主體在STEM的領域在科技的領域在AI的領域都不缺席那我們不缺席當然要有一些做法也就是如果原住民專班或者是原住民的教育能夠有一個更深的長期培育我想我們可以在目前"},{"start":5954.804,"end":5969.178,"text":"我們國家的整個科技政策比如說低軌衛星還有半導體及AI等領域這個扮演國際關鍵角色的政策下我們如何在這些研發基地包括台南在沙崙然後還有屏東在滿洲都有這樣一個發射場"},{"start":5970.359,"end":5999.599,"text":"而且我們也有一些我們也有博焦的2032、2034的這個計畫那原住民在這裡面如何不缺席這是本席在未來五年原住民族的教育計畫希望教育部跟園民會還包括國科會跟工研院都應該一起來做所以本席要請教在教育部、國科會、園民會、工研院還有相關的這個部會你們如何來支持原住民的青年進入核心技術領域"},{"start":6002.076,"end":6018.606,"text":"好跟委員報告那我想在研明會的部分我想我們會設置這個研究民族科技教育推廣中心那結合這個AI的教材還有我們希望能夠做行為的教學那北溪給你一個比較具體的建議跟教育部"},{"start":6019.706,"end":6047.419,"text":"緊密的來連結第一原專班是不是可以針對國家考科跟科技的相關題材來做設計這個是很重要的另外我們知道現在原鄉還有都會的原住民其實人口結構有一些變化那這個部分是不是可以請原民會尤其是在原鄉農業科技的這個部分還有剛才本席所講的有設立相關的科技園區的這個部分"},{"start":6047.719,"end":6060.852,"text":"我們如何跟學校來連結甚至中小學教育都應該及早的啟動本席是在高等教育但是呢現在各類的人都缺那我們只要跟考試院呢科技或技術教育"},{"start":6061.84,"end":6087.896,"text":"土木人才的缺是全國都缺那原鄉就更不用講那條件又更差整個的環境又更差我們如何來補足這一塊那如何讓原鄉的這個人口不再繼續凋零我覺得這是我們的責任那教育部原民會真的不僅在原專班還有相關的原住民族教育還有在我們未來的五年的原住民族教育的思考上應該把這個也放成是一個重點的目標我們不要再"},{"start":6089.237,"end":6105.536,"text":"現代性缺席我們也不要在現代科技現代技術上缺席我覺得是我們作為原住民族的一個使命那是不是也可以請教育局這個部分來支持關心我們對原住民科技人才的一個培養包含原住民的這個部落怎麼樣有一個更"},{"start":6106.016,"end":6127.733,"text":"多的一些STEM的人才能夠投入在這個部落的許多的一些發展上的一些貢獻那事實上委員所關心我們目前花蓮高工就有根據原住民的實驗教育辦法裡面就有設有這個資訊的這個實驗專班那謝謝 至少你們在東京這邊有一些專門嘛特別提到的譬如說這一個所謂的土木確實也是"},{"start":6133.737,"end":6160.751,"text":"大量的一個圈所以我們在大學裡邊有設有這個實驗專班像我們鼓勵這個宜蘭大學那不只在大學未來是不是也可以往下扎跟基督教育上好不好考險部我們也確實一直都對稀有人才的一些考試的一些人才我們也都保持密切的狀況所以我們也希望原鄉的人才能夠留下來那原鄉的環境也能夠進一步調整不管是AI"},{"start":6162.212,"end":6183.792,"text":"人工智慧或者資訊科甚至我們研民會事實上在16學年度也提出了研民專班的五大需求土木工程、地政、環境、工業科學這我們也都會全力來支持來配合所以請教育部支持啦這件事情我們沒有辦法置身於外嘛所以教育部、研民會"},{"start":6184.392,"end":6205.93,"text":"還包括國科會不要每次都把原住民的研究都只有在社會人文那所有的掌握現代性的一些技術其實我已經一直在幾乎不可以缺席不可以缺席這個是應該我們在原住民族未來的五年教育跟十年教育我們必須要非常非常把它當成是一件事情來看"},{"start":6206.687,"end":6211.391,"text":"接下來本席要來為這個地方請命也就是嘉義地區那個院長我想就是我也再提醒一下我們在這個嘉義地區的這個交通本席今天要提醒的是說應該要從一個"},{"start":6234.39,"end":6255.461,"text":"國家戰略的思維來談也就是說目前其實整個嘉義科學園區已經成為一個很重要的產業聚落那本席想要請教未來應該嘉義科學園區應該被放在產業的這個政策當中還有國家級的一個戰略地位那不僅是無人機智慧農機等等"},{"start":6256.221,"end":6279.586,"text":"那但是本席要這個提出來就是在這一個產業聚落下嘉義高鐵跟嘉義市區的這個連外道路一直都沒有被建置那所以在產業聚落的這個生活圈的一個支持其實有比較弱那過去嘉義市也提了好多次那本席也提過那本席在這邊提醒的是"},{"start":6280.606,"end":6304.904,"text":"行政院應該以國家建設的一個向度來投入這個交通的這個建設而不是把它一直在地化所以我們看到了新竹有科學園區但是呢新竹的高鐵有六加線那台南的高鐵有台鐵沙文線那苗栗的高鐵呢也有台鐵豐富站的一個銜接那但是嘉義的高鐵到現在都沒有軌道的連線系統那"},{"start":6306.605,"end":6328.546,"text":"很難去連結整個嘉義的產業園區跟嘉義市那本席去年在這邊提出來那院長您說那個地方的這個相關的經費沒有資源那兩億都拿不出來結果當天那個嘉義市就說那我們拿出來連嘉義縣的我們一併包了這樣子結果後來院長您隔一天就說口誤那這個部長你實在難辭其咎"},{"start":6330.188,"end":6347.242,"text":"那這個口誤那口誤之後其實你也很有誠意到了嘉義地區去勘栽的時候你有跟嘉義市跟嘉義縣說要不然您再來做一個整合所以我想嘉義縣市也都有做一些行前的會議那所以不知道能這個整合的進度跟這個建設進度目前到哪裡"},{"start":6349.602,"end":6364.393,"text":"再請部長來說明那不知道那個院長您後來在看災之後有沒有跟嘉義市跟嘉義縣來針對嘉義高鐵的這個聯外軌道來做一個會議我跟委員報告的是嘉義是我們嘉南高平大南方新矽谷重要的一部分"},{"start":6365.053,"end":6388.104,"text":"所以我們沒有包括152項以上的地方建設其中很多部分都是地方的交通建設所以本席這邊要提的就是謝謝您都提到本席就要講的是2025年你們提出來大南方的這個新矽谷的這個建設所以嘉義的這個產業園區其實某種程度也已經跟高雄、橋頭、台南、屏東"},{"start":6388.624,"end":6408.227,"text":"等等 連成一個大的南部的產業據論所以呢 應該從一個國家的思維來探討嘉義高鐵連外軌道的這樣一個建設從中央的觀點 從國家戰略的思維跟國家產業的推動來把這個高鐵連外的軌道建設到嘉義市的這一段給做好"},{"start":6408.827,"end":6427.375,"text":"這個是本席的一個重要的建議我請部長來說說明一下部長我想您去年有心讓院長在這邊口誤然後導致我們地方的一個笑話所以本席希望你把這個作證拿回去做演繹本席現在 等一下等一下 部長 本席因為還有議題所以"},{"start":6434.058,"end":6458.11,"text":"這一題跟觀光來講很重要那您先聽本席這一題您再做相關的這個回應啦好不好那主委基本上就是原住民的科技教育請不要忘記那接下來本席要談的跟觀光有關那關於嘉義市的這個嘉義市線的高鐵連外軌道的這樣一個連集其實最主要本席在這邊提醒請以南方新矽谷的一個層級"},{"start":6460.011,"end":6484.007,"text":"來做相關的建設投入指引這個是本席做一個結論那接下來本席要主委謝謝本席要談的是台灣的朝聖之路那我想這個應該在院長剛就職的時候本席也有提到那相關的這個單位我們有時候也有一些討論那我想那個院長應該知道那長距離的這個徒步是一種新的"},{"start":6484.787,"end":6506.733,"text":"旅遊型態那北溪作為一個朝聖者不太喜歡講旅遊跟觀光但是基本上他在觀光的領域裡面可以配出一個有序現代性所以在這個部分全世界有兩個世界遺產一個是西班牙的聖雅各路那一個是日本的這個熊野古道這一個體系所以這個道路"},{"start":6508.213,"end":6525.022,"text":"這個概念可能在台灣在過去大家比較沒有可是近年來其實很多人都徒步的在台灣走那這個概念是什麼呢他其實現在已經成為西班牙一個重要的品牌他也帶動沿線小鎮的一個地方發展時間的限制本席很快的講也就是說"},{"start":6525.822,"end":6540.097,"text":"我們可不可以從過去景點式的觀光模式然後來談現在的文化路徑跟漫遊觀光那需要你們的是可不可以做一個整合性的會議來建置各傳教士在台灣的軌跡那幾點建議"},{"start":6542.239,"end":6558.465,"text":"第一個是是不是可以請你們把台灣目前最缺的一塊最缺的一塊徒步邁入需要的軟硬體建設比如說庇護所可以透過空間的活化政府的一個推動來引領民間把它做得起來這個是"},{"start":6559.945,"end":6577.401,"text":"可能大家在這個經驗上本席因為經驗實踐的關係只能直接談這樣一個詞那接下來是那個相關的行銷是不是可以協助另外在這個花蓮有相關的這個海岸徒步道路是不是也可以請觀光局觀光署來"},{"start":6602.186,"end":6602.786,"text":"好謝謝林憲齊委員、謝謝左院長"},{"start":6607.959,"end":6623.025,"text":"報告院會現在在議場二樓旁聽起的是台北市立萬福國小的同學我們在這邊歡迎他們大力反應來好謝謝你們報告院會休息五分鐘休息之後繼續質詢現在休息"},{"start":7002.079,"end":7002.6,"text":"發言會現在繼續開會,請陳委員敬語質詢"},{"start":7031.001,"end":7036.144,"text":"好謝謝江副院長那卓院長各位所長大家早我們有請卓院長請卓院長備詢院長早"},{"start":7049.569,"end":7063.204,"text":"極端氣候的影響在去年罕見11月颱風鳳凰在宜蘭登陸大量的雨水聚降造成蘇澳溪的溪水暴漲"},{"start":7064.537,"end":7076.651,"text":"在地阿里塞秋水站水中沒力15年來嚴重的淹水兩次那當地的居民許多的民宅都泡在水中嚴重的水淹到兩層樓高"},{"start":7078.755,"end":7104.434,"text":"那我們中央政府在這段期間也持續的在推動我們蘇澳這個分紅道的相關工程的進行以提升我們防洪韌性的一個重要性那在這期間也列入因應這個氣候變遷縣市管河川及這個排水整體改善計畫總經費以修正到這個75.68億那在此我想請問院長"},{"start":7107.543,"end":7118.872,"text":"在中央這個全額補助之下我們政府如何透過這個發包策略與施工的界面調整確保這個工程可以在2029年如期來完工"},{"start":7120.197,"end":7147.207,"text":"我們去年到現場之後覺得要把這工程做好後續因為風災所增加的一些狀況必須要全面來整治所以再新增了有21點多億的經費能夠達到剛剛委員所說的75點多億這已經是同意列入4年1千億的縣市管核酸改善工程那現在期待2029年能夠如期完工目前經濟部水利署"},{"start":7148.247,"end":7174.421,"text":"相關單位已經準備在就近下個月會如果順利就進行開標是細節部分請市長來說明那為了能夠加速這個工程能夠在2029年底之前能夠順利完工那我想我們在這個發包策略上會用統包的方式來減少設計的跟施工的介面那也就是說除了"},{"start":7175.702,"end":7194.24,"text":"整體的工程案 縣府那邊考慮到能量有限委託我們水利署第一河川分署來執行以外我們的分農隧道就是用這種同胞的方式來做處理加速來做工程施工"},{"start":7194.753,"end":7223.632,"text":"好,我們都掌握其成了嗎?應該沒問題吧?沒問題所以要拜託我們我們努力下個月,過幾天,如果順利就開廟另外除了這個分紅道主體以外在蘇澳地區仍然面臨市區排水不足的相關問題中央是不是會持續來支持我們宜蘭縣政府所提出的1.2億1.2億的這個新馬抽水站等後續相關的改善計畫"},{"start":7225.234,"end":7229.462,"text":"以能夠建構一個更完善的防洪韌性水利的系統"},{"start":7231.605,"end":7259.221,"text":"這部分我請國土署是不是評估這個新的抽水站要不要把一併納進去這個四年一千億的計畫裡面來算那現在正在審查當中請部長來做說明是 謝謝委員的垂詢您所講的部分我們現在已經完成審查那四月底的時候呢如果經濟部的這個現款核酸改善計畫推動的話那我們就會核定沒有問題"},{"start":7259.881,"end":7279.081,"text":"好沒問題啦好那接續我想就交通部分來請教部長請教院長在我們宜蘭雙鐵的部分我想這是每次質詢必問的一個兩個這個鐵道問題那也持續郡委會持續的追蹤那在這個"},{"start":7280.702,"end":7297.406,"text":"鐵路高架的部分我們國發會已經在2025年去年的這個年底審議通過綜合規劃並且在上週的3月25號獲得我們行政院這個原則同意我想請問院長就是何時能夠正式的來啟動這個計畫是否有機會可以提早來動工"},{"start":7302.644,"end":7321.174,"text":"總經費超過500億是那中央地方就目前的財政狀況做依法來做分配中央負擔高達395億那地方也要負擔一部分包括資產性還有包括這個土用地的取得用地的取得那這部分"},{"start":7322.314,"end":7340.383,"text":"兩個因素一個是我們考慮到全國一次性讓各縣市都能夠公平在用地以及其他的費用上面由地方來負擔另外就是我們要考慮到這整個的中央地方的財政問題還有預算根本還沒有過這個都是一個相關相當關鍵的事情不過這個計畫原則上我們"},{"start":7341.564,"end":7343.286,"text":"好 謝謝院長那因為這個總經費確實是超過501億啦齁在我們這一次的核定"},{"start":7361.29,"end":7379.093,"text":"這個文件當中我們也看到後續相關的這個經費分配會與宜蘭縣政府另行協商那我在此也希望我們中央政府能夠考量到地方的這個財政問題提供更彈性的這個經費補助的分攤比例來減輕我們地方的財政壓力"},{"start":7380.415,"end":7396.164,"text":"這部分就要拜託院長跟部長行政院跟交通部我們的調節就是希望看到地方財政比較弱的那由中央來多負擔一些但全國的橫平性還是要讓他在這個精神上要展現出來好那"},{"start":7397.284,"end":7406.148,"text":"接續就是這個高鐵延伸宜蘭的部分那在宜蘭的相關計畫已經通過這個國發會的審議預估在2036年要來完工為確保這個環島高速鐵道路網的一個關鍵環節能夠順利的來如期動工我想請問院長就是我們"},{"start":7420.677,"end":7436.376,"text":"何時可以正式來核定這個計畫那相關的經費跟相關的工程推動有沒有問題今年有沒有可能來來宣布向委員報告這個宜蘭的這個高鐵延伸案其實在宜蘭的"},{"start":7437.596,"end":7465.325,"text":"鄉親來說的話有高度的共識我們有做過民意調查差不多八成以上的民眾是支持那我們交通部也一直在推動這件事情那不過我們現在程序上有遇到一些不同意見的團體他們有進行行政訴願也好或者是說監察院有監察委員在針對這件事情在調查他的程序上面有沒有一些疑慮那這個部分其實我們正在釐清當中我們也希望能夠趕快釐清這些疑慮之後可以趕快往前再推進"},{"start":7465.985,"end":7481.223,"text":"那今年有沒有機會可以宣布像委員報告我們目前看他那個溯院的進度還有就是監察委員他們目前正在調查那我們也趕快提供資料給監察院那如果他們可以做一個決定之後我們可能速度就可以加快"},{"start":7481.872,"end":7498.921,"text":"各位報告行政院跟交通部我們都跟有意見的個人團體有過初步的接觸我跟他們表達的是說行政院不會去干涉左右訴願的內容我們讓專家去做法治上的處理另外就是如果訴願完成之後"},{"start":7499.481,"end":7521.432,"text":"那麼這個可以往前走的話我們還是進一步要跟反對的意見的團體取得他們的理解這個地方完成工作之後對於很多路段的塞車瓶頸將來是會非常有突破的而且對於整個發展整個這個從花東到宜蘭的整個觀光系統來看這條路線接起來是有其必要的"},{"start":7522.802,"end":7549.428,"text":"因為高鐵延伸宜蘭或是高鐵南延到屏東這都是關乎到我們全台環島高快速6小時生活圈的一個重要路而且未來這個宜蘭新站高鐵的宜蘭新站設置之後它會是東部鐵道的一個重要樞紐那也會關乎整個東部甚至全台環島高快速路網的一個很重要的一個關鍵"},{"start":7550.848,"end":7576.395,"text":"所以未來這個地方我們現在目前規劃的一個高鐵特區大概是420公頃那我想請問這個院長跟部長就是針對這個部分我們對於相關的這個產業還有這個內容的規劃還有醫療空間結構等等我們中央政府有沒有什麼樣的一個比較好的一個策略"},{"start":7579.733,"end":7598.124,"text":"向委員報告目前這個420公頃我們委託宜蘭縣政府正在辦理這個高鐵宜蘭站的這個特區的這個都市計畫當中那我們希望他能夠在今年的年底之前能夠送到內政部來做審議那是我們今年的目標我們希望他可以趕快來送這個內容"},{"start":7600.245,"end":7625.111,"text":"那其實您剛所提到的整體的引進智慧科技也好或者是一些低污染負高價價值的產業的部分在裡面也應該都有規劃除了住宅區還有您所提到的一些軌道所需要用的用地之外這個部分其實也都有提到部長不好意思 縣政府不是在去年就已經把相關的規劃內容已經送我們行政院"},{"start":7626.883,"end":7650.137,"text":"它今年12月才會送到內政部的這個都委會去做審議我們目標是今年年底之前要送到上次委員也提到這裡是首都圈黃金狼帶以及什麼花東整個曼谷城鄉東部曼谷城鄉交界雙邊的計畫都會在宜蘭有所著陸所以無論是在水電的供應教育醫療文化"},{"start":7650.837,"end":7676.71,"text":"交通旅遊還有生活便利各方面委員特別會關心到醫療的部分目前醫療措施也相當有全面的進展包括陽明交大輻射醫院還有榮總的圓山分院還有羅東博愛醫院另外聖母醫院還有蘇澳的榮總的分院等等目前這個醫院大型醫院大概有9家診所也有345家病床數是1572床目前"},{"start":7680.272,"end":7695.309,"text":"具備這樣的量能我們再持續把它優化我們也希望說這個高鐵延伸到宜蘭能夠讓我們整個產業在推動的過程裡面能夠更加順暢陳儒剛剛院長您所說的部分"},{"start":7696.209,"end":7711.744,"text":"宜蘭縣有可能會吃香瓜水不管是首都的黃金圈或是我們相關的東部曼國城鄉的這兩個環節有可能都是在宜蘭縣會做一個"},{"start":7713.445,"end":7736.165,"text":"交錯了所以會希望說我們高鐵延伸宜蘭可以在這個過程裡面先行規劃完善的話才能夠讓我們未來這個在帶動相關經濟的時候能夠更加的這個活絡跟順暢謝謝我們因各方程序的推動我們仔細的取得更大的共識我們希望這成為地方上一件大事好事好那另外這個"},{"start":7738.018,"end":7763.795,"text":"台62線延伸宜蘭的部分我們行政院在2025年的11月已經核定這個相關的可行性評估預計的經費大概是1845億我想請問就是我們後續的綜合規劃與環境評估原本預估大概要3.5年的時間才能夠啟動有沒有可能能夠縮短期程盡快來動工以帶動我們宜蘭跟雙北之間的這一條快速路"},{"start":7769.428,"end":7795.907,"text":"報告委員我們這個綜合規劃的招標在3月25號已經完成招標作業也已經進行委外的評估因為招標作業其實蠻順利的所以我們希望後續的程序上面有一些部分是可以同時來進行的部分我們盡量把它拉在同時進行我們希望在3.5年之內3.5年是最長的預估委員也一直在要求我們說希望可以再縮短"},{"start":7796.607,"end":7816.724,"text":"那我們目前在看程序上面看怎麼樣縮短,我們正在評估當中好,那未來如果這個審查通過之後這個騎乘有沒有可能在宜蘭端的部分先行來做施工因為宜蘭端有這個迫切性我們不管是國道5號的塞車還是說相關的車輛進出"},{"start":7817.865,"end":7845.591,"text":"包括大貨車、大客車、貨櫃車等等他可能在行駛這個台六二的時候的需求性是相對的提高那宜蘭端有沒有可能先行來動工向委員報告之前我們去宜蘭看的時候你也有對交通部有做這樣的要求那我們有評估過我們到時候會分段施工那在宜蘭的這一段目前的交通需求量其實是比較大所以我們會優先以這一段作為考量來優先來施工"},{"start":7847.079,"end":7876.297,"text":"那另外針對這個國道5號銜接蘇花改還有蘇花庵的部分我們這個計畫都已經獲得核定計畫的目標均為在2032年底要完工那我想請問就是說我們如何來監督這個相關的工程能夠同步的完成以發揮我們整個路網更大的一個效益徹底解決這個宜花東雙向居民安全回家的一條道路的問題"},{"start":7877.83,"end":7904.434,"text":"像委員報告不管是蘇花安或者是國道5號銜接蘇花公路的這個改善計畫這兩個計畫都已經核定了那我們都抓同樣的期程都121年民國121年要來完成2032年要來完成那這個部分我們目前的進度都是順利的包含一些該招標的或者是說該委託的我們目前都在進度上面所以這個部分進度上沒有問題好 期程都掌握是"},{"start":7905.034,"end":7925.814,"text":"那同樣的問題就是在蘇阿安的部分東澳到南澳大概是9.3公里裡面包括隧道橋樑還有這個陸體的部分那因為這一個區段常常因為颱風或是這個急降雨的狀況之下會導致道路碳放那這一段我們有沒有可能在今年提早來動工"},{"start":7926.967,"end":7947.611,"text":"跟委員報告我們目前正在趕這個部分我們在趕今年不過預算的狀況我們還要再看我們後面的錢夠不夠用如果夠的話我們會趕在今年能夠動工好這期待啦期待看我們交通部看能不能積極的來要求相關單位好謝謝院長謝謝陳委員好謝謝左院長謝謝陳委員"},{"start":7957.745,"end":7978.664,"text":"下一位我們請王育民委員質詢奧運會奧運會現在在議場二樓旁聽喜的是新竹市立新科國中的同學我們在這邊歡迎他們到立法院參訪現在請王委員質詢"},{"start":7980.063,"end":7992.538,"text":"好謝謝江副院長我們有請卓院長有請農業部陳部長還有我們工程會主委陳金德主委上台好卓院長還有陳部長陳主委請備詢王委員好"},{"start":7999.307,"end":8021.013,"text":"院長好 院長我要先幫嘉義縣的災民請命但那次風災到現在你知不知道在嘉義縣還有一些農民他們的溫往事沒有得到任何的補助主要是農業部的規定太嚴格那這個我在今年還下去跟這些農民進行座談"},{"start":8021.673,"end":8046.898,"text":"他們真的是很辛苦溫網市被摧毀之後因為農業部的一些相關法規他是相對比較嚴格的而且他是把他這塊土地如果他有任何存在一些設施他通通把它綁在一起你沒有改善你的溫網市即使被摧毀了他就不給你補助喔這個是在嘉義縣異竹鄉還蠻嚴重的還有很多農民他們到現在也不敢提案"},{"start":8047.578,"end":8062.713,"text":"也得不到補助院長我希望今天主持公道是不是這件事情可以讓農業部可以讓這個陳主委他們回去盡快的來幫這些農民解套可以嗎好謝謝委員提醒任何災害發生我們都希望從速從速從快從優來處理"},{"start":8065.919,"end":8083.147,"text":"那我知道溫王是嘉義這個部分目前申請案件是5700多件但最終核准到現在是1700多件左右那其中有一些是退件那有一些是因為可能還有一些存在一些不適格的問題那至於說為什麼"},{"start":8084.748,"end":8100.53,"text":"申請數跟核准數會有這個落差那一定有它的原因出現我們請部長來做說明部長你們農糧署有跟您回報了吧我想我跟委員報告就是委員所關切的最主要的一個問題就是農地的容許的部分它可能有一些"},{"start":8101.911,"end":8127.249,"text":"違規的地方那我們也曾經想要用專案的方式去解套但是在討論的過程中在法規單位來講那個本身的最上位的法是沒辦法去處理的部分所以我們換一個方式就是我們主動協助縣市政府就是就他溫室本身如果沒有問題我們就應該可以同意不要去看其他的"},{"start":8127.869,"end":8146.601,"text":"盡量去做這樣的一個切割啦所以現在的部分我想我已經有跟農糧署還有跟地方政府也經過溝通大家可以認同我不去處理蔣塊蒂我去處理溫室那個地方如果說它溫室本身沒有違規的部分的話我們就盡量的盡快同意這第一點"},{"start":8147.521,"end":8172.419,"text":"第二點我也要求我們的農糧署把所有的申請案能夠上網我更希望用類似物流追蹤的方式讓我們的申請者能夠了解他申請的進度啦才不會說每天一直擔心說什麼時候可以好那這個部分我想農糧署也已經在做這樣子的一個系統規劃未來我想任何的申請案他都可以查到現在在哪一個階段以上"},{"start":8173.099,"end":8192.589,"text":"所以部長是說你現在已經跟嘉義縣政府就是也成立一個專案願意只針對文廣市的這個部分就是來給予這個補助跟處理嘛對不對不是整塊土地整個合起來看嘛可以切割處理了嘛對我是用這樣的一個方式去做溝通那你已經告訴嘉義縣政府了嗎"},{"start":8193.109,"end":8215.259,"text":"沒有 嘉義縣政府這邊他也要問他們的法治的部分所以我想我們那個部長 我跟你報告齁我開過協調會嘉義縣政府就是看中央主管機關只要你農業部同意 他們就照辦你不要再推回去給嘉義縣政府我知道 我會用這個原則再去跟嘉義縣政府這邊做確認我也會通知農藥署信息之內 好不好"},{"start":8215.979,"end":8236.951,"text":"可以吧這件事情已經很久了我希望這些農民齁當時這個院長剛剛也特別提到我們那麼加速通過這一筆特別預算就是從寬從幼從速這些原則但是現在苦苦等不到這個補助款的這些可憐辛苦的農民們我覺得應該要被重視好不好盡快去處理院長可以嗎"},{"start":8238.312,"end":8257.648,"text":"謝謝委員 您應該知道陳部長是很會為農民來照顧農民權益的所以我今天才特別提出來他今天還想出一個好的方法來解決這個難以解決的問題只要農業部講出來有利於農民的行政院是全力支持好 那我希望你們全力以赴一星期之內跟嘉義縣政府達成共識不要讓這些農民在"},{"start":8258.288,"end":8284.293,"text":"苦苦的在那邊等候我們要努力加油好 謝謝先請回接下來我要問的就是現在社會高度矚目的曾經的政委可以先回去就是霸凌的議題今天我看到我們經貿總談判代表楊珍妮總談判代表今天有出席是不是院長我們可以請總談判代表也一起上台"},{"start":8287.475,"end":8314.907,"text":"總諮詢的規定他是總談判代表不是政委他們都要有雙重身份總諮詢的規定應該是主長剛剛曾經的主委他也是政委有雙重身份應該都可以上官委員因為我們今天是總諮詢那他今天身份算政府委員但剛剛曾經的委員也是是工程會主委對啊就是身兼兩職嘛那照這樣來講台灣總經貿談判代表也是可以接受諮詢的因為過去楊真理總談判代表也有來到過立法院"},{"start":8315.979,"end":8337.361,"text":"我們正式是工程會主委、國發會主委跟國科會主委對,他們都有雙重身份,所以我想應該是可以的其他的經常會有一些工作上的分配我解釋一下,因為我們如果是針對上次談判的專案會議專案報告的時候那他用總談判代表的身份,那時候是可以備詢上台"},{"start":8338.101,"end":8357.472,"text":"因為今天是總諮詢我有一個議題是跟經貿談判有關的他可以提供資料,但他不上台備詢不上台嗎?他今天身份是中務委員因為外界都很想了解這個事件,如果可以,或是楊政委是不是願意上台?"},{"start":8358.134,"end":8383.084,"text":"不過我也請委員能夠體諒因為這件案子社會矚目行政院有非常的重視我們已經委由外聘的委員在展開這個職場相關的一些調查調查期間所有談判辦公室的人他對外的任何講話都可能成為調查一部分所以我們是認為如果能夠謹言慎行而且能夠減少在這個地方引起討論或許是一個比較好的方式"},{"start":8383.544,"end":8404.919,"text":"好 這個因為是外界非常的關注那既然這個楊貞妮政委就是沒有上台的話那院長我只好請教你了這個我們痛失了這個一位副總談判代表痛失他的經貿人才大家社會都覺得非常的惋惜那我們現在就來檢討這整個事情"},{"start":8406.26,"end":8432.401,"text":"這個都是透過爆料者他提出來的但是去對比這個顏惠心副總談判代表他所遞出的辭職信其實有些東西是吻合的首先我就請教院長你收到他的辭職信是不是2月19號我不是收到紙本我收到一個訊息傳真我不曉得LINE還是什麼是由辦公室的同仁給我看的一個手機上面的資料"},{"start":8433.066,"end":8455.9,"text":"那是辭職信完整的內容嗎?是,是辭職信也是完整的內容那你有好好的讀這個信的內容嗎?有有,那個時候2月19號就是過年年假的期間所以是2月19號嘛,你收到的簡訊內容就是辭職信我手機上收到的是2月19號的日子辭職信本身我記得沒有寫日期"},{"start":8457.117,"end":8464.113,"text":"你2月19號收到那那個辭職信是更早嗎?這個是我們人事行政總統你什麼時候收到的?"},{"start":8468.522,"end":8493.54,"text":"我是沒有收到 這個基本上是在院長辦公室收到2月19收到然後院長有看到這樣的一個資訊然後院長本來應該 我在想應該是要慰留他嘛因為他表現也非常好尤其在台美談判的過程中這是一個非常對台灣非常重要的關鍵時刻那院長一方面希望他留下來繼續幫忙嘛"},{"start":8496.081,"end":8523.608,"text":"也請他好好的照顧身體基本上在這個前提下就是有這樣的一個過程因為報告委員他後面寫到說未來身體如果康復有需要他還是會捷徑來為國家服務所以我再接到這個實質性雖然是在過年的期間我還是請我的同仁趕快跟原副總談判代表說好好的養病珍惜自己的身體那希望他早日恢復再回到工作上面來"},{"start":8524.548,"end":8546.933,"text":"他信的內容其實有特別提到就是說他的意見沒有獲得採納還遭受到嚴厲的駁斥指的就是楊真理總代表他並沒有寫哪一個人那現在你了解的是不是他不是 非常抱歉因為第一個 這個是在年假的期間而且他身上那時候是不舒服的"},{"start":8547.413,"end":8568.949,"text":"基於人性我沒有在第一時間去詢問他內容我只請他好好的珍惜保重身體再回來上班我們會再有機會再談之後他就一直在請假當中所以當時看到這個信的內容一個是他有指出這個他的建議遭到這個嚴厲的"},{"start":8570.71,"end":8591.603,"text":"駁斥喔另外一個就是CPTPP一直消極一對喔連一個工作小組都沒有就是院長那你讀到這些資訊的時候你那時候沒有想到要進一步去了解到底發生什麼事吧或者是把楊真理總談判代表叫來問話一下就是說我辭職信有看到這些訊息喔你沒有去核對嗎"},{"start":8592.523,"end":8613.791,"text":"當然過年幾年下去我是沒有去做任何的接觸那我看到這兩部分一部分CPTPP就政府而言我們持續在各種的場合面對任何的外賓或是國際場合我們都持續希望能夠協助我們進入這個CPTPP因為現在最重要的是是成員國的共識這個是現在唯一我們所欠缺的"},{"start":8613.951,"end":8632.347,"text":"但是沒有方法 也沒有計畫 也沒有工作小組這個是顏慧欣副總談判代表她指出來的我們過去這一年雖然我們很大的力量跟時間是用在跟對面的談判但CPTPP這個工作我們還是持續的讓它存在是我們的目標性跟計畫性的目標當中"},{"start":8634.882,"end":8644.776,"text":"所以就是當時你只有想要慰留他你並沒有針對他辭職信的內容就是仔細去讀或者是去查證我當然有看內容我只說兩個一個是連假期間我當然不會"},{"start":8649.589,"end":8670.288,"text":"干擾他 再來就是連假之後他還持續的請假我認為那個時候他還是以身體養他的身體為重 那個時間也沒有追查那我們現在回過來檢討現在要開始追查了 這個爆料人我發現他的訊息還蠻準確的 第一個他講說立法院的這個會議都是"},{"start":8673.39,"end":8702.071,"text":"這個顏惠心來齁但是呢就是赴美談判呢他被刻意排擠了赴美談判美方限制只有四個人員然後呢我今天要當面問院長的就是說這個四位人員是哪四位到底有沒有顏惠心他到底有沒有去跟美國方面作為四位的談判代表之一有或沒有我只能跟委員報告"},{"start":8703.232,"end":8725.435,"text":"談判的工作第一方面是由政府院長所領軍楊振儀政委是總談判代表當然是兩位是我們的主力那我們在所有重要的時節節點前後我們在院內都會召開各種的會議了解要去談的內容議題以及我們做什麼樣的決定但是在談判第一線的現場"},{"start":8726.776,"end":8733.962,"text":"當然由現場的總指揮他們去執行包括人員包括現場情勢的應對或現場能夠解決的問題這個當然交由全線的指揮全權來處理我們在這裡沒有辦法去跟他說"},{"start":8741.243,"end":8769.633,"text":"哪些人才能進到哪些的場合去所以這件事你是完全授權曾立軍副院長就是去統統所以你根本不知道成員有誰對不對他們有沒有告訴你說這四位成員有誰你之前到底知不知情在爆料者講之前你知不知道我們對美的談判代表他們帶了兩個記錄人員寧可兩個記錄人員一個名額也不要給副總談判代表這件事你知不知道"},{"start":8770.093,"end":8797.011,"text":"因為他一定有另外的考量那這個部分未來在調查過程當中我希望委員如果有詢問他們會據時來答覆所以爆料者講的是真的對不對就是說這四位的談判代表有兩位記錄一位是正副院長一位是楊真理總談判代表就是沒有顏惠欣副總談判代表這個是事實對不對委員說爆料者所談的是真的這件事情我沒有辦法證實"},{"start":8797.998,"end":8818.801,"text":"你到現在沒辦法證實有沒有說要進去不被進去或是被怎麼樣我只問你說這四位到底是誰是不是兩個紀錄加上鄭麗君加上楊真銘是不是就這四位我想基於談判的過程大家都知道政府院長跟楊政委楊總裁那其他的我覺得其他的應該交由調查去內容去處理"},{"start":8819.602,"end":8831.757,"text":"原因我們當然不知道我也不需要院長去講因為你也不是當事人但是我只是要院長證實是不是這四位就是爆料者所說那現在看起來就是嘛那外界在質疑的就是為什麼沒有這樣的等候 我覺得還是要調查"},{"start":8835.047,"end":8850.419,"text":"你們都現在掌握不到你問副院長就坐在你旁邊你問他一問就知道這四位那有沒有說誰要進去後來不被要求出來原因理由我們先不講就是爆料者所言就是這四位因為我是對照他講的就是說"},{"start":8851.659,"end":8869.728,"text":"這個有事副代表扛來立法院都是他來我查證了我整理出這個表格的確是從這個113年的11月一直到114年他請假之前都是由顏惠欣副代表來到立法院這個是沒有錯的我要請教這個"},{"start":8872.929,"end":8873.469,"text":"他去過 他去過"},{"start":8887.714,"end":8908.512,"text":"但是他不是代表那四個的代表然後他又要負擔來立法院報告跟說明你認為未來你所帶領的行政院底下還會繼續發生這一種就是如果有人上面長官試圖要架空他下面的部署有些職權把他拿掉責任讓他扛這種情況你允許未來再繼續發生嗎"},{"start":8910.049,"end":8926.645,"text":"如果不是針對今天說的這個案任何人去架空別人那當然不應該發生在公務體系但我覺得這兩個字不要跟現在就扯在一起我知道你的原則嘛我問的是你的原則那當然是是嗎好像我的工作我都非常倚重"},{"start":8927.446,"end":8943.939,"text":"政務院長還有張東安秘書長我們就說合理的分工我也相信在OTA裡面也是一樣合理的分工顏慧欣副總台表是一個非常優秀的國際貿易的人才所以他來面對立法院做一些詢問的回答我認為這也是他專業專長之一"},{"start":8945.86,"end":8973.359,"text":"應該表現得非常非常的專業這麼優秀的人才我相信他也希望在國際的舞台上面有他可以發揮的空間他既然這麼的優秀所以我也覺得現在大家幫他報物品的是為什麼這麼優秀的人在這麼重要的市民我們對美談判的這個席次上面這麼珍貴為什麼他連一席都不給他也不讓他去代表所以這個今天我要要求院長他也出去談判過也參與過這個個案"},{"start":8975.72,"end":9003.708,"text":"一定要徹查清楚喔當我看到家屬這個不克領受就是正願要頒給這個顏慧欣副代表這樣的一等的功勳的時候我覺得家屬的心情某種程度可以體會完全了解我也完全體會他可能覺得女兒有受到委屈他可能覺得真相比這個功勳更重要所以這個真相我就問這個院長你什麼時候可以給家屬可以給社會大眾一個交代"},{"start":9004.068,"end":9031.514,"text":"上個禮拜四我們已經請四位外聘委員組成這個調查委員會依照院內的規定調查委員會我們這次完全有外聘委員那他們在上禮拜五就開過視訊的會議那有幾位外聘委員現在目前聘幾位這一次是四位有四位是四位好那他們在上個禮拜五也開過視訊會議有排定了後續的相關的期程跟議程怎麼去調查方式內容等等已經在展開了"},{"start":9032.502,"end":9060.983,"text":"預計什麼時候完成依照我們的規定是兩個月內要完成調查必要時再延長當然我希望這個事情及早能夠讓家屬得到了解事實是好的所以我希望一個月內就要把這件事情調查清楚好不好不要再讓這件事情委員今天的表示調查委員都有聽到但法定給他們時間是兩個月以內越快越好然後針對這一個個案我有四點我提供給院長做參考謝謝"},{"start":9061.764,"end":9077.507,"text":"霸凌個案最重要的是找到真相然後還原事實你才可以給這個被霸凌者真正的公道過去在勞發署所爆發的基層的公務員因為霸凌案輕生就是這樣處理的第一個我要求"},{"start":9078.789,"end":9093.027,"text":"楊貞妮這個總談判代表她現在應該要暫時調離現職或請假這個就像你剛剛講的今天她現在任何的發言可能都會影響她下面這些被調查者就是到底敢不敢繼續講真話"},{"start":9094.649,"end":9115.144,"text":"過去在勞發署案件的時候 謝一榮我就是要求他要調離限職或暫時請假就是讓他下面的人敢說真話這是在霸凌案調查非常重要的一點特別是這個還牽涉到最高權位者的權勢的問題所以這一點我希望這個院長你要注意到調查結果有沒有效"},{"start":9115.945,"end":9142.454,"text":"能不能讓相關人講真話這個才是重點啦這件事情我希望可以做到第二個必須擴大調查範圍不是只有這個經貿辦過去在國貿局時代的同事還有經貿辦已經離職的同事還有外交部跟他互動的這個範圍你應該是要擴大你的全貿其實才會清楚喔這個部分我的要求第三個一定要保護好吹哨者"},{"start":9144.095,"end":9160.314,"text":"這個經濟部技術師之前傳出來說還要追查吹哨者此風不可漲我們今天是要還原真相如果有人還在私底下想要去找到說爆料者是誰還要加以報復我覺得這個真相就會石沉大海"},{"start":9160.774,"end":9177.883,"text":"就會讓真正知道事情的人不敢出聲第四個就是我剛講的這件事情社會高度關注你應該用最快的時間最有效的方式去完成調查在一個月之內就完成這樣的一個調查這四點的訴求我要提供給院長參考可以嗎"},{"start":9178.815,"end":9201.508,"text":"好謝謝我都聽到好謝謝謝謝院長那最後我還要追問一個還有另外一案一案未平一案又起我們的駐美代表余大磊到底他的霸凌案件現在整個社會也是沸沸揚揚因為他已經不止第一次這個被爆料者講出這些訊息但是我看到外交部的態度非常的消極"},{"start":9202.529,"end":9227.014,"text":"外交部說我們又沒有接到這個投訴所以我沒有辦法啟動調查我們的機制都在就是非常的官方但是院長我要提醒顏惠欣這個案子也不是透過正式的申訴管道但是因為爆料者指證非常的確實你們就啟動專案的調查了那我就請問余大雷案要不要正式立案調查"},{"start":9227.981,"end":9254.533,"text":"他講出來的內容其實還蠻離譜的離譜的是說為了口服之慾去解雇員工餐宴打包不合他意就把這個主管降為副主管還有他的夫人對於外交人員以止氣使這些都不應該是一個我們最大的這個駐美代表處應該展現出來的一個外交官該有的高度跟格局這件事情外交部不自己主動去了解嗎"},{"start":9256.448,"end":9266.646,"text":"媒體都包成這樣子了報告委員 我們外交部有良好的申訴管道事實上我們...你不要再重複同樣的話 我就問你要不要立案調查"},{"start":9268.106,"end":9288.582,"text":"我們不會根據傳言就來做這樣的一個調查那除非是有當事人正式的這個申訴所以就是不調查就對了好那我就請問院長那為什麼這個顏慧心案你也主動說要立案調查那外交部這個案子你管得到嗎你可以叫他們調查嗎還是要總統下令"},{"start":9289.844,"end":9318.184,"text":"外交事務當然是屬於總統之權但是這個人事上的行政行政院跟外交部還是一體的我們還是希望外交部能夠主動了解一下到底是不是有所誤解或是誤會如果當中有需要外交部來進行調解的部分所以應該主動去約談了解要找相關人員來了解過去也有一段這樣的一個過程嘛過去也有一些類似的那外交部也有經過了解之後有一些說明包括坐車啦當然都有些說明"},{"start":9318.564,"end":9339.766,"text":"那也能夠接受那這一次是新的市政他對於對於這一些解雇的員工或把人家降級都是因為這個餐點處理不好就大發雷霆然後把這個其他的外交官就是這樣子使喚來使喚去這個新的市政要不要再重新調查這個要經過了解否則這種情節是比較難以想像"},{"start":9340.627,"end":9357.103,"text":"對啊真的啊大家沒辦法接受大家沒有辦法接受但是因為外交官身負國家重任的外交官怎麼會用這麼一個事情來做這樣的處理我們基本上都應該相信我們外交官都是專業都是為國家在做事情的所以了解一下對當事人也是好的"},{"start":9357.463,"end":9385.89,"text":"本席主張還是應該要調查外交部要不要去調查你至少要傳相關人員來了解吧我們遵從院長指示我們會去完整調查我希望你們也要深入去了解沒有就還給這個代表一個公道有的話這個完全不符合一個外交官該有的風範在那邊作威作福這是怎樣我們不是要我們的工廠要一個駐外代表在那邊作威作福然後把外交人員不當外交人員看這個我們是絕對不能接受的"},{"start":9386.83,"end":9410.185,"text":"那麼我們外交部的立場一向也是要能夠維持一個友善的職場環境好 那你們趕快去了解跟國有公布你們了解的情況到底是怎麼樣 好不好好 接下來這個我要問的是現在大家民眾都很恐慌的這個今天的報紙可能這個這個院長應該看到我們現在連米價米的這個包裝連這個"},{"start":9413.577,"end":9433.286,"text":"包裝袋就是又貴又缺貨這一波的免疫戰爭川普總統他說一個月要結束一開始就說我們蘇州一個月結束現在結束不了這個院長你們有沒有做最壞的打算這個戰爭你們整個國安團隊評估還要持續多久"},{"start":9433.863,"end":9454.742,"text":"無法評估這個戰爭雙方在膠著的狀態雖然一開始說兩到三週三到四週那現在看下去時間應該會更為超越我們當初的這個想像跟預期對所以也就是因為這樣子對於整體台灣的衝擊我覺得就是會比原來的預判又更嚴重了"},{"start":9455.262,"end":9480.75,"text":"那現在在這樣的情況底下上個禮拜是塑膠袋之亂去菜市場買這些塑膠袋也是缺貨到現在這個櫃子上面也是空空那主要是上游的原料已稀其實是大缺貨的一個情況那所以原料缺貨然後現在輻射出來連這個裝米的米袋可能就缺貨現在廠商不是擔心它貴的問題"},{"start":9482.51,"end":9500.212,"text":"上游的供貨直接給他減一半那以後我們就是要自己帶著鍋子去裝你這樣子所以這個輻射的範圍是很大的我要請教院長的就是我們現在到底是如何的嚴正一帶我們現在這個一個禮拜我們開幾次會來討論這件事情"},{"start":9502.219,"end":9524.95,"text":"基本上我們禮拜一的政務會議還有禮拜三政府院長組織的物價穩定小組的會議還有禮拜四的院會這三個是固定的那其他我們還會不定期召開各種狀況那我跟委員報告兩件事情第一個油氣的部分因為二月二十八號發生戰爭之後油氣部分我們從三月四月穩定五月穩定現在到六月也幾乎是穩定"},{"start":9526.03,"end":9544.333,"text":"都沒有問題嘛到6月6月只差一點點我們現在再努力油氣大概都穩定油比較沒有問題是LNG的問題那另外現在看到的就是塑膠袋以及這個包裝米的包材那這個是上油化工的製品它的乙烯那我們現在是第一個要求中油"},{"start":9545.134,"end":9568.578,"text":"他能夠恢復生產也請台塑也能夠恢復增加生產這樣的原物料出來以後那雙方經過協調之後應該在4月份馬上就可以把原物料生產出來我們就提供給這個製造廠商來做生產量可以有多大中油現在已經增加生產量一個月是6萬那如果經過這樣生產會增加到7.9萬至8萬之間應該增加2萬"},{"start":9573.38,"end":9588.928,"text":"台塑部分增加的量還沒有那麼多我們再持續協調對中油我們是可以直接要求更多的台塑我們除了協調要求要配合它整個上面這件事情我是要提醒院長事實上它的影響程度不比這個新冠疫情"},{"start":9589.668,"end":9610.155,"text":"來得更輕微其實嚴重程度可能是更高的為什麼因為這一個整個石油它的原物料它是最上游它輻射到了包括我們的半導體包括我們這一些的民生產業包括很多其他的然後它另外會帶動就是我們的物價的上漲這一波其實是很嚴峻的"},{"start":9610.695,"end":9627.088,"text":"那我們常常說好想贏韓國在這件事情我覺得韓國他們的嚴正以待我也讓這個院長看我們應該是要更上緊發條來嚴肅看待這件事情韓國他們在3月25號清華臺他就成立了緊急經濟狀況室"},{"start":9629.17,"end":9648.717,"text":"他的最高指揮是總統就是總統府總統主持緊急的經濟檢討會議那他是用這麼高的一個規格來看而且他的那個執行端主導者就是國務總理就等同是院長他是緊急經濟本部各部會首長都擔任組長他分了五大組"},{"start":9649.517,"end":9677.108,"text":"就是在這個輻射的範圍他看到的是宏觀的經濟然後物價對應還有能源供應金融穩定民生福利還有海外情勢的管理他是透過由上而下很緊密的一個成立這樣的一個對策小組每一週固定開兩次會議你剛剛說行政院也有開會但你不是針對這件事行政院要討論的事情很多我們的政務會議第一天禮拜一的一早的第一案就是這個會議"},{"start":9677.768,"end":9705.473,"text":"你是第一案嘛他是這個小組都在討論這件事不是第一案我的意思就是說你是好幾案其中一案是這件事最重要的這一案對昨天早上公正案討論了將近兩個鐘頭對所以我覺得你應該要成立專門的跨部會的工作小組而且定期的開會像那個韓國他其實是每週召開兩次會議我覺得你應該要這樣子做而且把你開會的結果就定期的"},{"start":9705.993,"end":9731.732,"text":"你行政院告訴大家你針對哪一個方面你做了什麼事情因應了哪些你這樣子定期的一個訊息的溝通跟你定期的會議我覺得會讓民眾是更安心知道行政院是有步驟有策略不是且戰且走的就是你是用一個很宏觀的很清楚的責任分工定期的開會告訴大家這一波的危機大家共同面對行政院"},{"start":9732.412,"end":9750.424,"text":"有最壞的打算但是你們也有最完整的準備我希望你們可以做出這樣子而不是譬如說問一下這個央行央行回答一個然後問了誰回答一個就是各部會看起來我覺得現在是沒有統整的這件事情行政院可以做到嗎"},{"start":9751.229,"end":9776.952,"text":"我們這個每週固定的會議之後我會定時跟不定時向總統回報重大的一個決定那現在我也決定要如何跟民眾了解因為時間拖這麼長大家會越來越焦慮我們勢必要做一個更清楚的工作讓民眾了解我覺得我們在防疫期間那樣的方式讓民眾取得安心是一個很好的方式我們會把它組成起來"},{"start":9777.372,"end":9801.946,"text":"好 我觉得这个就是这一次的确挑战是非常严峻的就是我本期看到就是真的是要严正以对各部会其实都要很严肃的看待这个问题我们不希望这一次的美伊伊战争真的让我们的物价就是上升太快然后台币贬值太多然后我们的能源就是受到很严重的一个"},{"start":9808.748,"end":9830.492,"text":"謝謝王委員謝謝卓院長報告院會蔡其昌委員之質詢已書面提出請行政院書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報報告院會上午質詢到此為止下午2點30分繼續開會進行質詢現在休息"},{"start":9837.176,"end":9838.404,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":21607.739,"end":21616.362,"text":"好 專院長、政府院長各位閣議員午安我們現在開始繼續進行質詢現在接下來我們請黃榮委員質詢林德福委員請準備謝謝院長有請我們行政院長"},{"start":21637.424,"end":21644.578,"text":"麻煩請卓院長備選請圓明慧主委請圓明慧主委備選謝謝主席"},{"start":21651.267,"end":21670.686,"text":"從早上已經體會到就是院長在目前的執行回應給所有的立委已經有相當的誠意是應該的我是亦肯定那當然待會針對原住民議題我相信你也可以聽得進去那目前來講到現在從3月14號"},{"start":21675.56,"end":21689.489,"text":"我們賴總統在出席台灣總統執行30週年以民主任性的研討會全國的原住民到目前都還在憤怒那如何化解"},{"start":21691.24,"end":21705.467,"text":"中央總統行政院還是要坦白從寬要老實以對我們針對這個至此的時候是總統就說台灣是一個主權獨立的國家"},{"start":21707.408,"end":21726.576,"text":"國民政府只將台灣當成反攻大陸的一個跳板那更直言國民黨對待台灣人民比日本殖民還要差本席執意身為國家元首卻引用日本帝國的時期政治宣傳框架來描述歷史"},{"start":21727.202,"end":21742.043,"text":"那此時此舉不其失格也恐加劑的社會對立那在此呼籲國家當選的魅力是什麼?是能源經濟與國際局勢等多重的一個挑戰"},{"start":21742.964,"end":21759.434,"text":"那政府應該將心力放在解決民生的問題而非是片段歷史作為政治一個攻防的一個攻勢那民進黨不是才說要修補這個裂痕團結台灣嗎結果總統帶頭用歷史當武器把歷史當選舉攻勢"},{"start":21768.96,"end":21781.505,"text":"这样的一个政治格局实在令人失望对我们全国的原住民来讲情何以堪我待会我讲从历史的角度我们访观看一看"},{"start":21783.072,"end":21794.156,"text":"作為一個長年向台灣原住民主歷史學學習的原住民的後代我們也是一個後代之一聽到賴總統這種冷血的一個評論本席感到"},{"start":21799.578,"end":21823.223,"text":"憤怒也傷心族人也傷心在此要嚴正地指控賴總統這種說法是對我們原住民祖先輩抵抗日本殖民者歷史的無知更是對日本人所殺掉的原住民祖先輩的不敬和侮辱無知更是對日本所殺掉的原住民"},{"start":21823.803,"end":21849.576,"text":"祖先先輩不敬的一個非常不尊重過去院長所謂你們知不知道日經曾經用什麼殺光搶光燒光的傷光政策毀掉了摧毀我們的部落掠奪了我們所有的土地這樣的一個歷史的"},{"start":21853.332,"end":21870.188,"text":"傷痛我們從另外一個角度來看我們過去台灣所屠殺的原住民的一個事實第一個泰魯的戰爭約六百到一千人死亡物色事件約六百到八百人原住民的死亡"},{"start":21871.394,"end":21899.107,"text":"第三 第二次物色事件從200到500人死亡第四 李潘戰爭整體約數千人到2萬人死亡尤其是屠殺台灣人將近60萬賴總統你對這樣的一個被屠殺的幾十萬人對得起這樣的一個我們真正的屬於台灣人嗎院長 等一下 主委你再回應"},{"start":21902.557,"end":21914.761,"text":"你要回答我請委員能夠理解對歷史我們只有了解歷史才能從了解真相之後從各個角度去寬恕去原諒過去歷史帶來的各種災難"},{"start":21917.722,"end":21935.149,"text":"台灣這塊土地從荷蘭人、西班牙人到滿清、到日本、到國民政府承受了太多太多的苦難不同族群、不同世代的人民有不同的記憶他們的記憶都存在他們的生命當中"},{"start":21936.269,"end":21950.986,"text":"所以總統從歷史的角度來說出台灣歷代以來所有的遭遇代表的一種記憶代表的一種對歷史追求真相我們現在重要的當然這是你的論述"},{"start":21952.347,"end":21974.208,"text":"如果從歷史角度應該先講台灣的族人原住民過去傷害被傷害被殺害的被殺光的被搶光的被裸獵的這樣的一個歷史傷害應該呈現在國人面前應該總統要講我們原住民是最受傷害的然後你牽涵到台灣來那把歷史根據再來做一個係數"},{"start":21975.949,"end":22003.441,"text":"這才是一個對我們原住民這當然也是歷史過程中的一部分我原本應該記得我說過原住民是台灣過去的主人現在台灣是我們共同的家園我希望我們更重視更能尊重原住民的未來的發展既然政府要這樣的對原住民尊重可是他們現在的生活咧依然到現在沒有任何的進步對地方的部落的發展包含任何的產業經濟漫步前"},{"start":22005.342,"end":22033.092,"text":"政府對原住民的照顧是有增加的院長你看得清楚到目前沒有進步反而是退步因為太有政治手段在裡面參差了我們原住民的議題我們原住民非常善良而且也配合國家整個推動的政策他不是沒有聲音今天我們身為民意代表我們要廣納全國的原住民的民意來這個地方對院長跟你報告希望"},{"start":22033.692,"end":22046.918,"text":"往後希望你們在執政的過程對原住民的尊重包含歷史的定位包含現在要帶我們怎麼樣如何把我們的生活過得更好"},{"start":22049.681,"end":22069.091,"text":"陳志偉你認不承認這歷史的傷痛我想這樣我想這總統相關的發言他是希望社會來正視這個危險時期我們所受的人權的侵害我們最主要是從中記起教訓要珍惜今天得來不易的民主憲政的這個體制"},{"start":22070.732,"end":22096.849,"text":"那院裡面我們也透過轉型正義的匯報來督導落實戰後原住民的轉型正義我現在回答你回答我是這些是不是事實歷史過去裡面所發生的剛剛我念的幾項被殺害的是不是事實你回答就好了我們從中就是要記起這個教訓當然危險時代總是有一些有這樣的事情發生過我們是要記起這個教訓"},{"start":22098.823,"end":22116.634,"text":"所以既起交心是怎麼樣?採賭嗎?採賭嗎?不是,就是希望說我們從這個交心當中我們怎麼樣來珍惜我們現在的這個民主憲政的這個成果啦好,謝謝,謝謝主委我想交換部,部長請問一下"},{"start":22132.668,"end":22148.89,"text":"不是啊,你當我是菜鳥還是什麼?我從來不覺得你是菜鳥我再三延伸的來親口的告訴你了綠島現在的問題所在,我從來沒有要求你要做什麼"},{"start":22151.226,"end":22176.918,"text":"普國立民的事情當然我一定要珍惜所以我很客氣的告訴你我誠心跟你是一個同事念在一個同事當中所以不找你任何的議題但今天我只是拜託你公平正義在哪裡我拜託你 你當我是傻瓜你不要浩呆浩呆的專業 專業都沒有做得到就要求你來幫忙你連一個幫忙都沒有"},{"start":22178.1,"end":22190.113,"text":"委員我們就您指教的事情我們共同來討論我本來很客氣的當面在這個地方來拜託你今天針對立島的事情現在我們來看一下"},{"start":22192.2,"end":22208.52,"text":"為提升台東往返綠島海星能量與舒適感綠島是相公所經營的公船大五輪日前已在高雄的交船進入整修本席二度在這個地方"},{"start":22209.241,"end":22226.676,"text":"我要讓議員長知道本來這個事情不浮上檯面因為這個預算沒有那麼多然後整修以購買的補助的經費至今乃為獲得同意根據調查所有人外這個外旅島現僅有立島沒有公船"},{"start":22227.636,"end":22253.786,"text":"按照比例原則是力導的民眾極度不滿這個本來你們應該比例原則而且我要你們重新檢討你們也來報告給我有沒有你一個報告都沒有委員我在這邊跟您說你當我是什麼你要不要讓我說要不然我現在你讓我盯上盯上你們交通部你不要讓我客氣你要不要讓我說明請讓部長說明你看一下嘛"},{"start":22254.306,"end":22267.696,"text":"不要讓你說明這艘船幾年的你知道嗎為什麼現在你要猜數要補數給他們他們要補數要買來的船已經幾年的您知道嗎那你說你現在買來評估要猜數然後要給他們補數他們不要補數"},{"start":22269.838,"end":22292.986,"text":"我們要按照福國利民要長久久安讓他們能夠比例聯繩以公平的立場上的角度你應該要重新思考重新檢討才對啊28年修理起來要六千多萬你們單位有沒有跟我們報告沒有嘛那你要我跟你們報告啊我現在要跟你們報告你們要不要聽"},{"start":22294.192,"end":22305.014,"text":"那為什麼一定要在這個地方執行呢你要我去你辦公室報告你也可以來要求我們去報告你專業在哪裡所有現在的離島都有公傳"},{"start":22306.516,"end":22325.73,"text":"那我要你們檢討,然後你們再思考然後今天就算是你們評估這個舊船,不能使用那就不能使用,你們可以再提另外一方案不是說要拆屬,拆屬然後來補助給他們他們要的是這樣的嗎?補助這個我們要看綠島相關所提出申請要看綠島相關所提出申請"},{"start":22330.553,"end":22345.072,"text":"我邀請過你交通部你任何道路嗎只有這一件而已聽見了我要盯上你們交通部了您跟我說這件事那我們的航港也確實評估了怎麼處理啊也跟您說的評估就是目前船已經28年要花6000多萬"},{"start":22347.114,"end":22348.856,"text":"委員我聽起來部長對現狀是了解的"},{"start":22365.077,"end":22391.876,"text":"而且對您提出的這個方式他也有進行相當的調查所以他知道花這麼一筆錢修一部的舊船或許將來在使用上在安全上都值得勝利只是部長他應該進一步能夠提出一個跟委員商討如何來解決這個問題我剛才就是應該這樣子嘛可是為什麼一定要再次質詢你沒有 我要質詢你再次好奇讓委員相見告訴你然後你把我當成菜牛是不是啊"},{"start":22392.076,"end":22403.282,"text":"他了解事實調查清楚他也可以下一步再提出一個方案這方案調查 院查從去年到現在已經一年多了"},{"start":22405.011,"end":22423.696,"text":"一年多了 你大喬演是不是啊人家外界說你是凱歌 到處撒錢看顏色 到處撒錢 你名字叫凱歌現在外面的人都在傳啊因為你不對事情不對 無國利益的事情在做事你反而是到處撒錢時間暫停 黃委員"},{"start":22433.698,"end":22461.46,"text":"副院長 陳部長 我想我們就互相彼此尊重理系溝通 展開有優質的政策對話好不好 黃委員 左院長 陳部長我報告很多委員對部長都相當的肯定他一定會有後續的謝謝主席 毛院長本來我是好言相欠我想當面跟蔣部長告訴他有這麼一回事"},{"start":22463.121,"end":22490.271,"text":"這個不是一算多寡是對立島要公平正義人口縱然是沒有那麼多但是為他們的交通公船絕對有利這是長久久安的事情不是為了這個船已經老舊28年了然後我必須要翻修必須要付出這樣的這一筆錢可能好像不值得必須"},{"start":22491.011,"end":22513.036,"text":"我就用拆除的方法來補助給你那請問一下在比例原則在哪裡公傳就是沒有嘛那你應該要檢討那你們內部裡面應該要跟我報告喔我等了一年多了委員這件事要看綠島鄉公署他們希望怎麼做您也可以來開協調會我已經跟你們講了嘛我已經跟你們講給你報告了嘛你現在還當作不知道當傻瓜"},{"start":22519.577,"end":22533.455,"text":"不要在那後待你定奪你裁奪公平原則要不要公平原則力導的部分要不要給他們一個公傳公平公正"},{"start":22534.776,"end":22558.333,"text":"政府對綠島的各種的應該有的建設實在是不會落後的 不會少的我記得我去的時候 關於學校的整建我們每一年都因為颱風來也撥下了相當的款項 這都是應該的或許我記得好像綠島整個鐵路線的地下化我們也做了很多要不要重新檢討公平正義 要不要重新檢討"},{"start":22559.013,"end":22581.749,"text":"我看部長在瞭解清楚沒有問題我們可以來商討啊您也可以開協調會啊我們一起來商討嘛找綠島鄉公所大家一起來討論看要怎麼解決給你兩個禮拜好不好我不要等一年給我兩個禮拜所以您不參與這件事我們直接找綠島鄉公所嗎開協調會啊還是你們檢討你可以開協調會啊我們一定會到啊討論出來兩個禮拜你們分析看能不能啊"},{"start":22588.479,"end":22608.245,"text":"對不對以現況的要求我們已經分析出來沒有經濟價值我跟你講沒有經濟價值是公平正義的問題嘛如果要新的版本也沒問題我們來討論嘛好給你一個禮拜好請下所以到底是兩個禮拜還是一個禮拜一個禮拜好了好沒問題我們來商討好好謝謝有請國防部長麻煩請國防部備選"},{"start":22618.066,"end":22643.684,"text":"跟黃委員報告,今天部長下午決定貴賓,現在副部長,徐副部長黃委員好我先強調一個對美採購武器沒有人反對,但很多人卻有質疑和擔心"},{"start":22645.936,"end":22656.86,"text":"副部長你知不知道為什麼主要是交貨的進度讓大家擔憂根據今年的2月TVBS所民調的將近59%的民眾同意經過對台灣的安全"},{"start":22663.102,"end":22689.372,"text":"當然有幫助但是同時也有56%受訪者擔心美國經受延宕交貨其實就是證明本行所剛剛所說的支持對美軍的侵購但是有所餘力以目前你們所訂出來的國防部指出美國真正交貨的延宕項目只有三項總額新台幣2550億"},{"start":22692.714,"end":22713.994,"text":"分別為F16、70戰機原規劃2026全數交付目前0交機第二是AG154C聯合具外精準的一個武器原定2025、26交付限制"},{"start":22715.715,"end":22735.325,"text":"拖延到2027、2028那另外第三是NK48重型的魚雷齊神多次調整齊神那現延2026、2028全速完成可能達到2023你來回答一下這個問題委員這個是這樣"},{"start":22741.071,"end":22752.941,"text":"關於目前延宕的品項的確是您所說的這三項那我們持續的跟美方溝通那麼相關的延宕這幾個產線F16我剛去看過了"},{"start":22758.305,"end":22782.563,"text":"目前F16的產線在物料跟人員上面並沒有什麼摯愛主要是因為F16 BLOCK 拐動這個是為我們台灣設計的所以它是一個新的構型它必須要不斷去是非才能把新的系統調教好然後再回饋產線去做調教所以它的時間沒有辦法確定但是我去看了產線 產線上面"},{"start":22785.491,"end":22806.445,"text":"66架裡面已經59架都在裝修那我問你武器的交付好延宕是不是一個事實回答我就好這三項這三項的確但是呢這個今年是像那個F16嘛是到今年要交付但是到今年為止目前是還沒有可是已經有在是非了對嘛現在回答我"},{"start":22807.643,"end":22830.248,"text":"這三項也好武器沒有交付是不是一個四十四就好了嘛但是很多也已經交付啦很多正常還有一項是超前的當中有三項剛剛副長提到其中一項的因素那因為這個跟國際的因素也相當關係我們講一個必須要一個承認齁即使以合約來看只有三項延宕但是這個三項對國軍"},{"start":22832.248,"end":22851.447,"text":"的戰力非常的影響很大因為這三項你們提出的剛剛講的是225億但是現在我們以美國卡托研究所2025的11月報告表示延宕金額高達1億"},{"start":22852.828,"end":22868.101,"text":"新台幣6773億元那雖然這個未交付的累積金額包含生產中因美方產能排擠而延後的一個這個督算進去"},{"start":22868.721,"end":22895.123,"text":"但是實際上也反映出美國對外經濟系統長期低效風險規避加上產業基礎無法快速擴產的系統問題在於德朗公司戰略暨國際研究中心的智庫報告也多出指出美國工業基礎無法對台灣的和烏克蘭的一個高需求"},{"start":22895.763,"end":22919.294,"text":"所以這個就是一個問題所在那延宕就是延宕那今天剛提到的6730億就是我們購買的武器到現在是吧不過我們的付款是隨著他的交付而進行的所以如果還沒有交付我們的錢還是並沒有轉移過去這是第一個事情第二個事情呢"},{"start":22920.094,"end":22944.999,"text":"如果說美國的產線有所致愛這不是只對於中華民國台灣它對全球都是一樣這是第二點第三點如果我們不向美國買有什麼別的來源可以買嗎問題是現在沒有所以並不表示說某些武器延宕大部分武器都是按時交因為這樣我們就不購買武器了我想不能因爲廢食吧"},{"start":22945.859,"end":22964.367,"text":"我想延宕就是延宕這國人都已經知道現在我們重新的檢討儘快把武器交付給國內增加我們國際的戰力這才是一個真正要解決問題的人好請坐那個原民會主委麻煩再請原民會備詢"},{"start":22978.015,"end":23002.325,"text":"我想這也跟院長知道外交部都提出總和外交外交的這樣的一個政策在林部長在總和外交的過程裡面我想一定有一他的績效因為我在外交國防我常常去了解在外交國防的一些總和外交包含南東以西民主推動的一些政策"},{"start":23002.945,"end":23022.661,"text":"本席在這個地方特別提出對於整個園民會會要不要再增加而且如何做一個橫向聯繫因為南島語系民主我想這次一旦在從委上任跟外交部的部長對應提到"},{"start":23023.602,"end":23040.06,"text":"既然你们提出的总和外交那我再提出人民外交包含南岛语系如何结合这一些南岛语系的民主将近三四亿人口的这样的一个过程因为我们常常对着我们的外交困境"},{"start":23040.66,"end":23062.954,"text":"一直處在一個沒有辦法再拓展那如何借用我們南島語系的民主裡面做結合然後總和外交包含原民會的扮演的角色非常重要原民會的扮演角色也是要跟外交部做一個橫向聯繫所以應該要設置原住民國際處"},{"start":23065.416,"end":23089.017,"text":"因為現在原住民的這個國際這個族只有預算只有兩千萬而且你如何把我們的南島語系的民族再推展到這個亞太民族裡面按照我們不能依賴著外交部外交部有外交部的專責我想原民會原民會本身就有專責"},{"start":23090.118,"end":23117.16,"text":"对常常推动的南岛语气的民主而且如果成立我们言明会成立一个国际组然后跟外交部配合总和外交来对整个亚太民主的南岛语气我想有助于我们国内国家对于外交的政策的困境扩展到我们的事业我想院长你认不认同我的想法谢谢委员"},{"start":23117.981,"end":23132.029,"text":"肯定林佳龍部長率領外交部推出總和外交甚至還有榮邦計畫等等這都是過去幾年我們很少有的一個外交接觸目前也持續在運量運作當中至於原名"},{"start":23133.01,"end":23153.528,"text":"的部分在人民會的綜合規劃處當中就有一個國際事務的專職機構所以國際事務組現在都推展的沒有辦法發揮嗎但是所有的部會對外的關係都應該在外交部總和外交大的計畫當中逐步推動"},{"start":23154.289,"end":23169.92,"text":"那我認為我也會要求外交部不會去忽略南島國家對我們應該有的接觸甚至他跟我們有某些文化的相同更有利益我們互相的接觸這個我請外交部可以再回答你再回答我維會"},{"start":23172.202,"end":23196.858,"text":"原住民事務委員會自民國86年1997年設立至今已經28年了那原住民農漁林因分屬各部會業者導致有五個問題長期的存在那既然很多現在是業務都在原民會重重之務為什麼"},{"start":23197.458,"end":23217.472,"text":"因為聯盟會直接對整個全國的原住民的一些農 漁 林包含南歐以西的民族的推展他們是一個直接跟他們有關係的所以我的意思說既然28年了那我應該要設立的是什麼就是國際組配合"},{"start":23218.072,"end":23241.306,"text":"我們總體外交總和外交跟這個外交部那農漁林那配合農業部應該要增設原住民委員會增設農漁林處這樣的話更能夠貼近民意貼近農人貼近漁民包含南寶以西的民族裡面推展"},{"start":23244.047,"end":23261.276,"text":"謝謝委員謝謝委員對我們這個研會這邊對外交跟農漁業的能量的這個考量但我要跟委員報告依據這個中央行政機關的組織基準法的規定我們會裡面最多就是成立六個處但是我跟委員報告"},{"start":23262.236,"end":23274.728,"text":"有沒有這個處跟有沒有做這個事情是不一樣的我們一樣像譬如講在這個中長城的計畫在原住民的國際外交的部分我們院裡面也編列了5.2億的"},{"start":23276.912,"end":23296.691,"text":"未來的六年來處理這個事情因為我沒有辦法再增加住但是有這樣的預算你不要固本也不要固守長期的傳統的概念從蔡英文總統到現在我們的賴總統設置了多少部門設置了多少部門"},{"start":23298.223,"end":23312.888,"text":"我們要創造新的議題讓我們民眾百姓老百姓尤其是農人漁民最能直接感受園民會的恩澤德振啊是吧"},{"start":23313.388,"end":23339.229,"text":"你要去創造你要去徵刑那你還可以說服我們這些立法委員我們要跟行政院來報告請行政院拜託拜託能夠徵涉原住民事務委員會的農漁林處包含我們的國際處結合外交部的總和外交不就是一個解決之道嗎那要不然我們的範圍沒有跨出去我跟委員報告"},{"start":23340.851,"end":23347.336,"text":"農業部本來就是在照顧我們所有的農民農業部不是農民農業部部長我直接講一句話就好了農業部長來外交部請回農業部部長請備詢"},{"start":23357.273,"end":23381.906,"text":"我們這個中央政府組織啊它設定是一定的數目一定的量人所以是不是有外交或是農業部的事情不能多大人來檢討院長你們就要思考從蔡英文總統包含賴總統現在設置多少的部門那都是依法設置那你現在的很多的一些章程憲法要怎麼改的就要看你們怎麼改啊部長 農業部長"},{"start":23387.567,"end":23392.952,"text":"農業部長有有我跟委員說明一下你不要聽馬沙羅"},{"start":23397.932,"end":23399.533,"text":"農業部針對人民部落特別提出一個原地再現"},{"start":23419.364,"end":23434.967,"text":"只是到園民會的園民化那我今天我要求補助我要跟眾你不會聽我們原住民的辛苦跟他們內心的吶喊裡面你如何了解所以嘛農藝林樹是不是成立一個嘛現在最簡單了嘛如果園民會什麼步道成立一個那就是跟院長一樣啊"},{"start":23443.834,"end":23470.602,"text":"沒有 今天我們講一個貼近民意 貼近原住民的事務我們很多原住民不會懂的國語不會講的台語但是 人民會貴最能夠貼近原住民事務可以聆聽他們的辛苦 他們需要的是什麼在原住民輔導的時候我們都有原住民的同仁一起來協助部長 我問你 馬路那一腳過馬路現在要怎麼走"},{"start":23482.216,"end":23495.91,"text":"黃委員報告時間已到質詢時間時間已到原住民話怎麼說時間已經到了原住民話怎麼說你要不要說一遍到了原住民話到了謝謝黃委員質詢謝謝卓院長謝謝黃委員質詢謝謝卓院長相關部會首長非常感謝"},{"start":23506.704,"end":23533.017,"text":"歡迎我們一長二樓旁邊來自美國、加州、德州、Boston所有的僑胞朋友來到我們立法院我們掌聲歡迎各位各位又來了一批青年學子來自東吳大學我的小學弟、小學妹、政治系的同學我們掌聲歡迎再接下來請林德夫委員執行、徐欣怡委員請準備"},{"start":23541.684,"end":23568.064,"text":"韓院長還有行政院卓院長與會各部會的首長是不是請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備選林委員好卓院長你好卓院長我請教因為行政院打算幫軍公教調薪"},{"start":23569.765,"end":23592.416,"text":"這部分本席是支持本席認為行政院除了照顧現職的公務員更要編列軍人加薪以及提高警察警消退休所得替代率的法定預算本席沒有要跟卓院長來針鋒相對"},{"start":23594.946,"end":23617.425,"text":"那您也知道我們現在的物價一直在上漲人民荷包緊縮都在縮水本期是希望說行政院能夠回心轉意感念這些退休公務員對國家的貢獻停止調降公教年金所得替代率院長你有什麼看法"},{"start":23618.884,"end":23633.54,"text":"政府對軍公教的調薪逐年來是依照我們經濟的發展跟國家的財政能力所以這個部分這幾年來已經調整了14%點多了我記得那對軍人的部分我們在過去一年"},{"start":23634.341,"end":23649.366,"text":"前一年我們也增加了對軍人的170億的預算來增加各種戰鬥部隊的加給同時又追加了60億的預算那今年雖然還沒有通過今年也編了125億的預算要對軍人各種不同的加給"},{"start":23650.026,"end":23664.981,"text":"所以政府對軍人的薪資是階梯式的逐年的進展而不是一次齊頭性的平等這樣並不會造成更大的公平但是照顧是不會落後的"},{"start":23665.501,"end":23690.938,"text":"退休的這些公教人員包括警察警消其實他們過去在任職的時候也是幫我們政府來打拚公務員不管是現職或退休我相信都是國家的棟樑政府身為雇主應該有義務要來照顧這些公務員政治是一時的"},{"start":23692.159,"end":23713.898,"text":"好的待遇與退休條件才能夠吸引更優秀的人才投入公職本期是希望說院長你真的要好好的考慮因為你的院長不是坐永遠的而且立法院通過的這些法案講實在話也是公平公正客觀因為很簡單"},{"start":23717.481,"end":23744.314,"text":"今天當你退休的時候再來砍你的年金當初我為什麼要選擇這個行業主要就是我退休有保障嘛因為退休以後年紀越長很簡單啊他的花費越多啊有時候生病要看醫生啊再接下來甚至於有的要請外勞來幫忙照顧啊這些都要花費啊而且每一年啊現在幾乎啊對他那個"},{"start":23746.295,"end":23765.327,"text":"很多物價什麼都在上漲所以說你砍他年金剛好是對檔本來是應該要照顧他們結果你不但是砍殺而且讓他們年年減少那你對現值的增加對這些退休的來砍殺院長"},{"start":23768.572,"end":23788.82,"text":"跟委員報告蔡英文總統時代基於過去這麼多年來對年金改革只有風聲沒有執行所以蔡總統那個時候是克服了萬難取得了社會最大的共識降低了所得替代率降低了所得替代率絕對不會影響任何一個公務員當年當月當日的生活"},{"start":23789.6,"end":23810.996,"text":"晃血到現在為止雖然所得替代率逐年緩步的下降但是我們整個社會支持社會福利醫療的照顧等等是逐年在增加這樣相較以下對休人員的照顧並不會比較差那我請教當初是要改軍公教勞啊為什麼只改軍公教"},{"start":23813.358,"end":23826.373,"text":"長任久任希望他留在位置上也對未來新的加入國軍行列的軍工教能夠起一個連串連的工作我是希望卓院長真的好好地考量"},{"start":23826.994,"end":23850.347,"text":"其實你砍他也不多 但是讓這些退休的人員人家說後派是在供給我退休以後你再來砍我年金 到底何在退休你砍他啊 限職還可以加薪啊年金改革的這個案子經過大法官的解釋是核限的我們在沒有任何違憲的基礎底下不會去變動"},{"start":23851.628,"end":23877.763,"text":"所以現在我們站在這個地方幾下但是立法院要增加行政院的財政負擔也要考慮到國家的財政能力我認為當初的政策是要軍公教勞你現在只看軍公教勞割一邊又每年補貼我不是說這樣不好但是問題是軍公教他們心理上很不平安因為警察起銷60歲有的就走掉了"},{"start":23878.263,"end":23902.625,"text":"因為他們很辛苦又是很危險的任務那你為什麼退休再來砍我相信拿著良心因為你自己考量本席多次關心CPTPP的加入進度本席在去年3月我也問過卓院長關切整個台灣加入CPTPP的進度卓院長說會盡力來爭取"},{"start":23904.887,"end":23932.298,"text":"那我請問卓院長CPTPP成員國中目前這個態度上支持我們的數量有多少他最重要的這個這個成員國的共識這一部分我們是沒有辦法到現在全部達到的因為當中有很大的政治的權力支持我們的也沒有一半這個部分我認為我們在處理的過程當中我們要尊重每一個當事國跟我們互相的承諾"},{"start":23934.603,"end":23946.352,"text":"這個齁根本就是拖再拖啦這個只不過是一個幌子啦我們今天有最好的這個我們今後辦的副總談判代表嚴慧心啦因病實事"},{"start":23947.655,"end":23969.404,"text":"國家痛失人才媒體刊登 顏慧欣辭職的信提到爭取加入CPTPP在執行層次消極跟敷衍而無具體的計畫已實成外界這才發現談判加入CPTPP政府自己內部"},{"start":23970.504,"end":23983.314,"text":"已經出了狀況對不對關於本席是希望說卓院長要給全民一個合理的解釋啦你要怎麼解釋跟全民講你講CPPDB是我們進入到國際經貿組織一個重要的門檻"},{"start":23985.976,"end":24003.623,"text":"我們長久以來不論他從美方到日方在角色主導調整過程當中我們都極力的在爭取我們也儘量符合奧克蘭三原則現在最差一步的就是最後這個會員國的共識部分所以現在我們不僅在台灣辦公室是長年有這樣的規劃在進行"},{"start":24005.003,"end":24023.135,"text":"我前幾天我說過過去這一年來雖然我們的權利是放在對美談判但是我們還是透過各種國際的組合各種國際的場合跟所有關心台灣願意在台灣發聲的國家跟友人希望他們能夠協助台灣加入CPTPP"},{"start":24025.236,"end":24048.923,"text":"這個工作的過程跟努力是永遠沒有放棄的不要只有嘴巴強強啦來院長不要只有嘴巴強強啦我也答應過委員我們會把這個工作再把這個小組繼續的強化像談判辦公室我們現在也增加了人手我們希望他能夠在對美談判已經要靠一個段落之後能夠把強權力放在像CPTPP以及其他更"},{"start":24049.523,"end":24068.3,"text":"更多國家的雙邊談判過程當中讓我們能夠進入到國際社會那個卓院長 我不希望就像已經往生了這個嚴慧心她所提到的整個加入CPTPP在執行的層次是消極跟敷衍"},{"start":24069.688,"end":24089.449,"text":"這四個字我重視他提出的這兩個形容我們一定要把這樣的形容把它畫出來一個更有力的助力我們希望能夠強化整個工作角度這四個字很嚴重啊代表你們根本就是在敷衍嘛難怪就是糖篩嘛對不對那個院長"},{"start":24090.666,"end":24104.952,"text":"因為我們是希望這個一個行政官員尤其你是一個主導全國行政最高的一個首長做任何事情你可以做到你講不可以做到也要跟大家"},{"start":24105.934,"end":24123.272,"text":"講清楚說明白不要用那種謊話式的來來敷衍來騙大家所以說袁慧欣啊她由她內心世界發出來才會有這樣的一個想法對不對那我希望"},{"start":24124.246,"end":24146.566,"text":"有則改進,應該該改則改我們現在整個台灣雖然多雨但因為氣候極端,時常有缺水的問題經濟部長、工部長也一定上來目前整個桃園十分水庫,蓄水率已經剩五成"},{"start":24148.868,"end":24163.902,"text":"苗栗這個苗族地區的水庫汽水量都低於四成那請問經濟部及各水庫這個汽水區進行人工蒸餘目前的狀況如何"},{"start":24166.072,"end":24188.365,"text":"最近我們水情的了解跟努力來向委員說明跟委員報告一下新竹的水情確實是比較讓我們擔心一點目前我們已經是減壓供水列為黃燈是夜間減壓供水目前我們朝幾個方向第一個就要多調水所以每天我們會從桃園石門水庫"},{"start":24189.205,"end":24212.904,"text":"來支援18.3萬噸然後苗栗永和山水庫來支援5.7萬噸來減輕新竹地區的這個壓力那你也沒有在做人工蒸魚嘛對,所以梅雨季來的時候所以我們會大概可能這幾天會有一些封面過來對啊,你們要先求票啊有這個人工蒸魚的一個計畫因為這陣子本席看到農民抗疫農業部"},{"start":24215.266,"end":24237.606,"text":"這個節水計畫,農民認為政策缺乏溝通,引發農民反彈認為說政府只顧晶片,不顧農民北極是希望說政府要把農民的權益要把它顧好因為農業用水除了灌溉還能補充地下水源減輕地層下陷的整個社會成本"},{"start":24238.587,"end":24244.557,"text":"那農地是一座巨大的水庫多幫台灣保留了67億噸的河川水資源2024"},{"start":24250.529,"end":24273.13,"text":"2024年我們糧食自舉例只有30.7%不到31%如果糧食短缺難道叫人民去吃菌片嗎委員這個應該是有所誤會農業部所有的作為到現在為止絕對不會對現在的農民有產生影響縱然有一些"},{"start":24274.391,"end":24297.636,"text":"減壓供水在各種在這個工業方面在農業部的這個現在目前對農業現在的種子絕對不會有發生影響很簡單的說明我們在新竹地區我們用系統性的節水作為我們不採用所謂的停灌的方式就是要讓農民能夠持續在有限的水資源之下能夠讓作物生長讓他們有所收穫"},{"start":24298.796,"end":24323.632,"text":"那些農民怎麼會去抗議媒體所報導的抗議的並不是農民不是農民團體都是一些外界不了解的人那我們也持續的去溝通現在目前大概整個灌區裡面2800多公頃裡面的農民都願意參加這樣的一個節水的最起碼你們要向外界講清楚說明白我們已經完成了溝通而且"},{"start":24324.612,"end":24351.734,"text":"農民也大部分95%以上的農民都已經加入這個系統表示說他們肯定這樣的一個方式能夠協助他們渡過這個難關好啦我希望如此來那個院長因為日本約9%的這個液化天然氣供應來自俄羅斯那韓國日前也表示已向美國政府確認韓國進口這個二產的油品不會被制裁"},{"start":24352.795,"end":24371.34,"text":"可考慮進口二產的石腦油美國也宣布讓印度可以購買俄羅斯的石油此外菲律賓和泰國也已經以俄羅斯展開原油進口的相關談判那我請問卓院長和經濟部長"},{"start":24375.239,"end":24394.695,"text":"這個經濟部對上述訊息是否都有掌握有沒有掌握首先跟委員說明再請經濟部來說明我們這個石油的安全存量90天我們現在是遠遠超過而且我們從現在幾個月之後的油源我們還是在穩定的掌握當中所以目前油的部分"},{"start":24395.996,"end":24412.482,"text":"問題並沒有很出乎我們的預料之外但LNG天然氣我們也掌握到五月份是沒有問題六月也解決了大部分我們希望在一個月一個月一個月這樣解決下來那現貨市場上現在也是相當的混亂大家就在講現貨那個院長"},{"start":24414.463,"end":24428.314,"text":"本席是認為既然韓國、日本、印度、泰國、菲律賓都打算向俄羅斯買石油那為了緩解我國未來人員的一個危機我們這一方應該向美國來表達購買俄羅斯"},{"start":24436.62,"end":24437.742,"text":"你的看法呢"},{"start":24447.808,"end":24469.086,"text":"為什麼從我啊經濟部目前還沒有提出這樣的一個想法我們先掌握我們目前的猶豫那我們對現貨市場上的觀測是有的在現貨市場上如果大家的現貨市場的秩序能夠我們理出一條方式出來那經濟部會再進一步的去評估請經部說明跟委員報告我們現在原有的部分會是從美國還有西非"},{"start":24470.047,"end":24492.896,"text":"等幾個國家會來做調度那目前的調度的情況還算還算還算順利對好但願如此啦你不要到時候一直在這往上這個拉高價錢因為你不管石油也好天然氣也好一拉高這個百業就會往上拉你所有的物價都往上提"},{"start":24493.779,"end":24509.709,"text":"這個我們至少每週都會確實的檢討此後該有的作為來 我再請教因為部長既然經濟部有代表民進黨政府執意要推動核電歸零燃氣是50% 燃煤是20%"},{"start":24512.891,"end":24527.148,"text":"再生能源30%的能源政策當然我們也提出一些擔憂此次中東戰爭一爆發天然氣進口出現問題各行各業都會受到衝擊跟影響"},{"start":24528.129,"end":24540.924,"text":"那以日韓為例啦兩國是我們貿易上的夥伴與對手看看別國的能源政策日本現在明訂啊2030年核能占比要恢復到20%到22%"},{"start":24543.948,"end":24571.806,"text":"那韓國也把核能拉高到百分之三十以上那我請問經濟部是我會要求台電修改長期電源開發的規劃重新納入核二核三的這些核發電怎麼樣根文報告我們現在核三廠是按照核管法的修法後的這個規定正在進行這個自主安全的一個檢查"},{"start":24573.072,"end":24599.841,"text":"那預計這樣的一個時程可能要1.5年到2年的時間那所以我想這個程序我們都按照法定的程序在進行當中那當然到最後還是要經過核安會的這個審查要能夠確保安全無虞之後我們這個核電才會重啟那你認為核電歸零南汽50%南煤20%再生能源30%的能源政策要不要調整"},{"start":24600.851,"end":24618.845,"text":"你們要不要調整那個大方向一定要啊對不對不是只有這樣改而已啊環境基本法當中我們多元發展綠能這個是我們現在的政策總統也提出二次能源轉型也是以多元發展綠能以及深度節能科技儲能以及強化電網韌性為主軸"},{"start":24620.726,"end":24640.139,"text":"所以這條路我們是堅持走下去的那對於剛剛委員所關心的核能問題因為核管法改變之後它40年廚藝的年限被破除了所以它可以有機會重新再用一個程式讓它是不是安全無虞現在才進到這個情況底下"},{"start":24640.899,"end":24668.526,"text":"所以他如果透過這個自主安全檢查以及提出再運轉計畫那經過核安會核准之後才有可能經過社會的共識來討論核實能不能夠要來重啟那目前我們在做準備的工作同時我們對新式核能的技術我們希望跟世界同步無論是SMR或是核融核我們都現在在接觸當中甚至國內已經有初步的雛形在做基本的研究那我們會加快這個速度"},{"start":24668.686,"end":24673.584,"text":"我是希望要面對現實很多問題是擺在眼前今天你要是說"},{"start":24675.74,"end":24700.641,"text":"見到問題又不想說去把它改進你永遠擺在那裡我們只會往下沉淪不會往上移我們正在為未來做多一項的選擇因為那個院長怕熱就不要進廚房這是許多政治前輩常講的一句話對於115年總預算將即將即本席無意跟卓院長我們來針鋒相對但是本席是希望"},{"start":24701.562,"end":24728.565,"text":"行政院長能夠歌詞真立務實地往前看因為依預算法第54條的規定立法院已經同意行政院先行動之718億元的新興計畫預算與法有據那主計長已公開證實新興計畫預算依法可以動之那立法院同意以同意行政院動之新興計畫"},{"start":24731.048,"end":24756.42,"text":"計畫書的預算那足跡總署公文也卡在行政院受影響的是人民的日常生活就算718億元新興計畫的預算未來如果經過立法院審議有刪減的時候也可由各機關相關的經費來調整支應或補列以後年度預算並非無解你有什麼看法"},{"start":24757.04,"end":24779.026,"text":"中華民國的公務員從來沒有像今年這樣子可以用的預算還在未知狀態可能用了以後不會被承認中華民國公務員從來沒有這樣那我跟你講每次我們提的這些計畫什麼你不喜歡就把它提呼籲呼籲我們也就又表決了一次在過去也沒有這個樣子啊"},{"start":24780.446,"end":24798.471,"text":"對不對預算都要經過三讀718億固然是人民需要718億之外的另外整套預算是3兆0350億就不論其他的就是新增跟新興計劃裡面來看我們的健康台灣的國家疫苗計劃難道不重要嗎我們的"},{"start":24799.451,"end":24819.224,"text":"AI機器人 量子 矽光子難道不重要嗎我們的這個北回之間的觀光產業難道不重要嗎我們要提升國軍戰備的難道不重要嗎這個都是在裡面你把這個去除只通過了718真正這些馬上就需要的啊這些也馬上就需要我們為什麼要這樣做"},{"start":24821.505,"end":24835.716,"text":"因為當初我們有提出一些軍人加薪包括這個很多我們那個軍人警消警察不是軍人公教警察警消當初我們對不對"},{"start":24837.458,"end":24865.46,"text":"這個我已經公開說過說過很多次只要大法官解釋合憲我們就編追溯如果不合憲我不能當一個違憲的院長我不能當一個違憲的院長從來沒有立法院在替行政院編預算的只有本屆立法院做這樣的工作過去從來沒有像你這樣的行政院院長因為沒有立法院編我們就不會提出呼籲呼籲不過以後又要提提示線因為規備了權力分立原則"},{"start":24866.221,"end":24883.402,"text":"這個齁 我在立法院七屆的也跟你同事過我跟你講過去從來沒有這樣子是過去從來沒有替立法院替行政院編國預算是從來沒有過沒有錯我再請教最急迫的我們的災損金50億到現在沒有通過訊息該來了也不在718裡面"},{"start":24884.744,"end":24904.021,"text":"那很簡單啊 你就提出來 我們立法院通過該給的你給 該過的要過我們提出來3兆零350億全部提出來全部都過 你吃肉的 吃肉的 對不對那你就 把人民當中全部都過 吃肉的 就是這樣子啦我跟你講齁 你要主席長 請主席長上來麻煩請主席總長備選"},{"start":24907.51,"end":24930.247,"text":"過去我們都多少你自己去調但是你這個組計長就聽你們的話不願意才造成今天這種狀況你問組計長有沒有 說他不會調委員 您這麼資深的委員過去可以調調到最後都是兩院協商不是在這裡表決的對啊 但是過去我多少百分之幾讓你去自調"},{"start":24931.568,"end":24935.469,"text":"調的過程是兩院協商之後一個數字過去朝野協商就是百分之幾讓你們自行去調整講實在話這個談心空間已經很大但是陳淑智這個主席長堅持不行"},{"start":24951.234,"end":24957.102,"text":"對不對 過去從來沒有這種狀況 因為我這次做了26年從來沒有這樣過我們沒有說堅持不行 不可以調 當初114年說不能調是在我們院裡面做成的決議說不能調"},{"start":24967.797,"end":24995.737,"text":"我跟你講啦過去從來沒有你問柯建民對不對你們過去的總招多少只要談好你自己把它調好一切就順了因為過去立法院都很依照憲法第70條跟預算法93條所以過去不會有這種現象這一次是嚴重違背憲法70條跟預算法93條因為為了整個國家的經濟提升兩岸和平政治清明你硬撐對人民都沒有好處趕快審總預算"},{"start":24997.078,"end":25018.134,"text":"趕快審總預算 你該過的先過啦沒有總預算該過一部分你不要把這個卡住 主計長都要把工程都下去了你還說這個不行 對不對我跟你講 沒有這樣子的總預算如果能審 立法院可以就內容來做討論而不是現在說 要給你傳給給你吃個肉的這絕對不是這樣的態度剛剛所提到的 這個就是說到時候718億裡面要是有3千"},{"start":25024.759,"end":25039.674,"text":"再談到這個動資,我們可以以第一倍金、第二倍金及災害準備金這些是按照中央政府總預算未能依現完成之執行的補充規定建議應等到預算完成,法定程序後實體動資"},{"start":25041.716,"end":25061.75,"text":"但其實這個解釋函規定是行政院主計總署自己可以修改的當預算沒有辦法在期限內審定完成預算法並沒有限制行政院動資第一倍均、第二倍均以及災害準備均"},{"start":25062.811,"end":25088.205,"text":"所以說718億的新興計畫包含TPAS這個要務任性以及民生政策本席真的是希望卓院長跟賴總統擱置爭議依主席總組的建議趕快做出指示讓各部會能夠盡快的動之你不要再硬撐了我並不想擱置爭議我是認為不需要有爭議只要趕快審中央政府總預算就不會有爭議"},{"start":25089.403,"end":25115.063,"text":"那個都是你在講的啦因為過去從來沒有這個樣子只有你當行政院長過去都依照憲法、根據算法的規定來所以不會這個樣子只有去年開始變成這個樣子過去從來沒有是,沒有錯真的好啦,因為跟你怎麼硬撐都沒有用好啦,我們是不是請交通部部長陳部長麻煩請交通部長備詢"},{"start":25127.162,"end":25136.33,"text":"部長你好我請教因為這個在我們雙核地區有很多像那個"},{"start":25139.249,"end":25165.345,"text":"成功路啊 旁邊的堤頂道路啊包括這個黃河東路啊因為那個每天上下班人很多幾乎每天上下班幾乎都塞車因為我一直在觀察那塞車最重要就是怎麼樣去解決他塞車的問題那以前有一個南北線那因為南北線那時候有一些卡關所以說就沒有完成"},{"start":25165.834,"end":25193.136,"text":"那現在有一條綜合公務線的規劃進度其實交通建設是不分黨派那本席也十分支持那一個綜合公務線新北已經啟動可行性民估已經大概差不多年終就可以送中央來審議台北市其實也都啟動應該也都在那個時候就可以送那我是希望說站在解決地方問題的立場"},{"start":25194.537,"end":25208.071,"text":"是不是中央與地方的公文旅行過去這條路路線規劃時交通部經常要地方來補件耗掉很多的寶貴時間那我能不能"},{"start":25210.487,"end":25234.874,"text":"部長在這裡給地方一個承諾就是說這個綜合關路線在這裡是不是交通部能夠在可行性評估一送件請交通部立刻開綠燈來審查可不可以好謝謝委員的關心目前新北市政府已經在做可行性研究您剛剛所說的他應該5月左右就送過來那台北市的部分我們可能要再追蹤一下因為這是跨縣市的"},{"start":25236.255,"end":25259.376,"text":"那我們等兩個部分都送過來我們一定會盡速來審查委員這麼關心我們就來加速審查我是希望說這個要是需要補件請交通部專案輔導新北或者是台北市讓他補件能夠一切順利因為每天我看上下班很多人都塞在那裡而且只要上班下班幾乎都如出一轍都是這個樣子"},{"start":25260.297,"end":25281.865,"text":"這個比較特殊因為牽扯到兩個縣市啦那我們這個介面會比較多那委員所提醒的就是說我們可能專案來協助他們就兩個縣市一起新北市跟台北市一起找過來因為那是解決交通的問題啦另外那個一個捷運中和半大線這個2027年年底就是明年年底會完工"},{"start":25284.267,"end":25302.226,"text":"本席是認為說這個交通建設都不分黨派啦這個地方中央都要支持那未來萬大縣第一期完工後在確保民眾搭乘安全的前提下本席是希望交通部能夠承諾會加速旅館作業盡早核准營運的通車"},{"start":25304.196,"end":25332.569,"text":"如果完工了我們當然希望他可以趕快通車那旅館的部分我們來協助好那最後一個問題我再請卓院長你可以回去卓院長因為現在很多這個政令的推動都是村里長第一線那因為我們都知道村里長的事務費補助四年前這四年的物價波動很大那我是認為說這些通盆盤很多都吃掉了是不是"},{"start":25333.409,"end":25348.179,"text":"地方的民意代表會用知己村里長的事務補助費這個應該適度的可以調以現實面來看因為你物價調那麼多漲那麼多這個經過10年你都沒有"},{"start":25352.93,"end":25364.984,"text":"來做任何的調我認為應該要研究一下那這個也請內政部跟地方政府去研討看看將來這負擔是由地方來負擔的要看什麼負擔嘛好謝謝林德福委員質詢謝謝主委院長各相關部會首長備詢謝謝"},{"start":25381.866,"end":25385.54,"text":"接下來我們本日最後一位諮詢委員徐新義委員請諮詢"},{"start":25408.573,"end":25429.14,"text":"謝謝主席 本席有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備選學員祝福你通過一個艱辛的考驗我們期待未來我們有一場非常高品質的選舉落實民主政治"},{"start":25431.048,"end":25453.621,"text":"謝謝院長我想我今天最後一位總質詢我想跟院長來談一談AI我想院長一定認同我們整個全球包含台灣都進入了AI時代也因為進入AI時代所以我們看到賴清德總統喊出要重啟核二核三"},{"start":25454.605,"end":25479.435,"text":"那所以我有優先呢我想跟院長來探討我們台灣的AI尤其院長您上任的時候我印象很深刻行動創新AI內閣那這個有兩個含義一個是你們把AI把它解釋成active innovative但是AI時代的來臨你們也要讓整個的"},{"start":25480.625,"end":25499.116,"text":"師政能夠進入AI的時代所以台灣的AI有沒有變成治理能力這個是非常非常重要的那所以要人民有感AI不是說有技術有設備這樣來建制那我們要人民有感所以"},{"start":25501.016,"end":25526.635,"text":"這個整個的AI在台灣整個的運用我們的行政院是火車頭照道理是整個全面下去那我們也有看到這個很多的部會也都在進行所以本席今天要從幾個面向來跟院長來談首先第一個AI應用在交通的部分AI應用在交通的部分那我們"},{"start":25527.642,"end":25543.771,"text":"能不能了解現在我們台灣現在一年交通事故五十萬件有三千人死亡那我們現在有沒有統計就是說時間暫停 學員那現在要不要請交通部長備選"},{"start":25545.887,"end":25571.618,"text":"我都在問院長我都從頭到尾在跟院長談因為我們這個硬碟只有三位你就先問院長我都是在跟院長各部位首長就稍安勿躁我們時間繼續部長你們自由啦我是在跟院長來就教所以我們的交通"},{"start":25573.615,"end":25602.444,"text":"交通最重要的就是交通的安全跟交通的顺畅所以交通的安全我们在AI的部分我们有没有做什么样的运用那本席刚刚提出那台湾一年50万人50万件的交通事故近3000人死亡那我们看到美国AI时代来临之后他们运用这个AI他追撞事故可以减少49%等于可以减少一半将近50%"},{"start":25603.624,"end":25621.689,"text":"那我們這個AI內閣上任兩年來所以我本席想首先請問台灣把AI應用在交通之後死亡和事故下降了多少有沒有數據好我先跟委員報告台灣因為有非常事件"},{"start":25622.789,"end":25641.572,"text":"領先的這個半導體製造的能力所以我們設定我們AI的新時代建設裡面最頂尖的這塊叫做軟體設計我們希望把硬體變成軟體設計那我們希望用到的是百工百業都能夠進到運用時代最終是全民建立一個全民智慧生活圈"},{"start":25642.373,"end":25661.133,"text":"我們會把矽光子 量子 AI 機器人 無人載具都當作我們的關鍵產業所以委員所說的交通我前不久你百工百業我認同 士農工商我都認同 農業也可以但我現在就是針對交通我前不久到中南部一家廠商他做車用雷達甚至他用到路邊的這個裝置 標誌"},{"start":25663.576,"end":25687.145,"text":"他就是用AI的技術導入可以讓行車更安全提醒駕駛也可以讓那個標誌提醒過路人那所以本席要問的就是說請問我們交通事故有沒有我們有沒有運用AI或應該先回答我們整個的交通有沒有在應用AI有沒有應用在我們的整個的交通方面"},{"start":25687.785,"end":25715.36,"text":"像委員報告我們在AI的使用在這兩年其實我們進步的相當快交通部昨天也才開過AI推動委員會那我們每半年都會開一次那我們也跟NVIDIA接觸過了所以我們有些路網封閉式的路網例如說高速公路例如說我舉例來講樹花路這些都會運用你們這樣講下去我的時間就沒有所以我想知道有關交通因為你不管怎麼運用我們民眾感受跟這個結果"},{"start":25716.661,"end":25734.684,"text":"所以有關交通事故的部分,我們有沒有下降?交通事故的死亡已經連續幾年都是下降下降幾%?有沒有數字?我們現在已經下降7%左右,7%點幾死亡下降,那哪一類的事故下降最多?"},{"start":25735.285,"end":25740.231,"text":"所以我們發現應該整個我們台灣的交通還沒有進入核心的AI治理這一塊我們希望可以加強"},{"start":25756.024,"end":25783.522,"text":"那所以這個再來就是有關我們減少塞車交通一個是安全一個就是交通要流暢我們最重要是要把時間這個部分的運用就非常多對對對我們最重要要把時間還給人民嘛所以現在以交通部我們一高二高甚至我們的這個所謂的縱貫路台一線我們有沒有整個的交通的"},{"start":25784.122,"end":25809.253,"text":"AI這種流動流控系統我報告我一句話每次年節之前我會到各個重要的行控中心去看交通疏解的狀況都是用AI在提醒我們去看它整個數字跟前年比跟現在比如何來降低哪一條路要用什麼樣的替代道路都是AI在做指導請部長再做說明那本席想問我們全台灣以"},{"start":25809.733,"end":25834.315,"text":"以中央 那地方政府先不談中央我們整個裝了多少個感測器報告委員 這個感測器相當相當多對 多少個 因為國外我們都看得到數字我現在沒辦法跟你們報告整體的數據因為它每天都在偵查當中裝在主要的交流道還是路段路段也有 交流道也都有"},{"start":25835.762,"end":25842.692,"text":"好 那如果是這樣的話請問交通部有沒有建立一個全國AI交通平台"},{"start":25843.291,"end":25872.438,"text":"因為你的一高二高 包括在建構當中正在建構當中我們過去是各個體系例如說省道是省道高速公路是高速公路蘇花路廊是蘇花路廊那我們現在部裡面有要求就是每一個系統要整合起來不過那個大腦的建置需要花一些時間我們現在跟NVIDIA 所以目前在進行中對我們跟NVIDIA正在討論說那個大腦該怎麼建置不然各自有各自的大腦我們沒有一個整合的系統那目前正在建置當中"},{"start":25873.058,"end":25882.915,"text":"你們這個建制未來因為像一高或二高它的交流道現在像本席從新竹每次來要來台北我如果不坐高鐵"},{"start":25883.564,"end":25911.721,"text":"我就塞在環北環北路上塞很久那包含回去的時候我想部長更清楚我們從湖口竹北整個一路塞所以你這個你有了建置了這些流控系統但是有沒有發揮功能那特別是你交流道會塞一定跟你下交流道之後跟地方市區道路連結這整個所以你這個平台建置之後你有沒有跟地方整個做連結"},{"start":25912.321,"end":25932.606,"text":"有報告委員 這個都有我們所有的交流道跟地方政府的智慧行控其實都是包在一起的都是串接在一起的但交通還是有它的極限我們的路欄跟路幅就是這個樣子我們透過AI或透過科技可以減少行車的時間所以現在全國的AI交通平台正在建構中"},{"start":25933.926,"end":25954.198,"text":"什麼時候建構完成各個系統其實都自己都有了包含您剛剛所提到的高速公路本席提的是全國性的AI交通平台您剛剛說正在建構中我們現在正在建構當中但是這需要一些時間對 目標什麼時候完成我們希望一年之內能夠把整個平台建構起來"},{"start":25957.26,"end":25974.812,"text":"等於2027我們應該有整個全國的AI交通我們期待能夠至少有初步的整合性的要做好那我們有統一的資料標準建構了嗎我們有一個TDX系統其實是交通部所有的交通訊息全部都在裡面這個系統其實我們已經開發相當久了"},{"start":25976.173,"end":26004.965,"text":"像這個有跟地方政府整個有一起做而且我們有開放給很多的民間企業例如說我們現在看到的Google Map它用的一些資訊就透過我們交通部的TDX系統所以很多的民間的App其實是用我們這個系統地方政府當然也是串接在這上面好 所以我想院長我們的AI運用在各個方面我們要的是民眾有感而且它真的可以改善我們的交通"},{"start":26006.906,"end":26015.195,"text":"這是第一個運用在交通第二個本席想請教院長我們AI防炸做到了多少"},{"start":26017.119,"end":26031.966,"text":"我們現在有一個我想沒關係我這只是一個開頭那本席想先引用新加坡新加坡他在2025年就是去年他們一年他們的數據成功攔阻了2.6億通的潛在詐騙來電那有4000萬的潛在的詐騙簡訊他也成功的攔阻那同時呢"},{"start":26044.551,"end":26072.583,"text":"他們去年的詐騙案件下降了27.6%總損失也下降了將近20%所以我們台灣我先問第一個問題台灣AI有沒有導入防詐就是AI有沒有這個防詐我們有一個這個平台上面就是用AI去尋找這些可疑的或是已經確認它是它是這個不法的網站會把它當作這樣不法的行為來處理這個請部長再做詳細處理"},{"start":26074.344,"end":26075.044,"text":"藍組率提升了多少?"},{"start":26097.83,"end":26122.399,"text":"這個攔阻率那個基本上幾乎是百分之九十後來都攔阻其實只是一個時間的問題讓我們把這三十萬則的以上的這個訊息通報給Meta以後Meta去訓練他的那個AI的系統就是教他們的AI系統認識台灣的詐騙訊息長什麼樣子結果他們在去年跟我們通報就是已經攔阻超過七百八十萬則的"},{"start":26123.479,"end":26123.579,"text":"財損減少多少?"},{"start":26141.195,"end":26163.408,"text":"院長你不關心嗎我們台灣這個人家說詐騙的天堂我們到底成效如何我們每個禮拜都至少看一次由我們林明星政委所整理出來給我們的每個禮拜的案件數跟採審數這個現在要查一下數字每個禮拜都在做不同的觀測當中好那接著本席想要問"},{"start":26164.208,"end":26193.043,"text":"刚刚部长也有讲到我们AI防诈不只是辨识更重要是速度所以我们想知道异常的金流多久可以拦阻异常的金流比如说异常金流异常账号以及异常的装置出现的时候我们是可以立刻来拦阻或者是触发它的延迟还是要等到民众通报以后"},{"start":26193.883,"end":26207.028,"text":"發案以後我們才能追可疑帳戶我們軍管會會比較有完整的資料對一個可疑的帳戶我們想透過拉出一點時間讓他的安全時間能夠"},{"start":26208.547,"end":26236.196,"text":"有一個考慮的空間本席這樣問就是希望因為其實民眾應該最有感的就是詐騙所以也希望您能夠時時刻刻在這一個部分能夠了解所以我們現在台灣異常金流的藍組我們很想知道AI藍組他是秒的等級還是分鐘等級還是停留在小時的等級還是人工的等級"},{"start":26239.002,"end":26246.213,"text":"跟委員說明一下我記得上一次委員會有質詢過比如說我們接受到警示帳後多久可以凍結他的帳戶"},{"start":26247.677,"end":26271.189,"text":"那我們大概是上次跟委員也回報過大概是在20分鐘以內所以現在是停留在20分鐘不是就是說他有很多種狀況第一種就是當我們知道這是詐騙帳號的時候通知銀行銀行必須立刻去把它凍結掉我想這是一個剛剛委員提到說假設銀行端他自己在做AI防詐比如他覺得這個帳戶有刻意的時候當然就立刻就鎖空了"},{"start":26271.946,"end":26283.271,"text":"他就會等於說就會對民眾而言他比如說他可能一些網路的交易這些細節不是重點重點是民眾最關心是來不來得及擋住攔阻"},{"start":26285.336,"end":26312.373,"text":"我們現在整個的系統當然就是說我剛才講說他們內部的AI啟動以後立刻就會在他們的譬如說這個帳戶的警示就開始出現20分鐘還是那個是說被警方通知的時候通知警示帳戶要凍結他的帳戶的時候等到警方通知那太慢了那表示他知道他受騙了一個是警方通知一個是說銀行自主的發現這個帳戶異常進行管控當然是立刻"},{"start":26314.639,"end":26338.536,"text":"這邊有一個是詐騙財損暴增65%是趨勢科技揭發就是2026年詐騙趨勢其中長輩的受騙金額最高年輕人頻率最高年輕人就是愛情詐騙他已經進入一種養套殺的模式所以"},{"start":26339.54,"end":26368.299,"text":"整個趨勢科技調查高達90%的民眾他擔心家人受騙但是只有13%的人選擇報警包括我周圍我認識一些年輕人他真的在網路上被被愛情詐騙他不敢跟他家人講他甚至也沒報警所以本席接著要追問我們警政這個院長這一塊您真的一定要親自來督軍我們的警政 金融 電信"},{"start":26369.659,"end":26391.485,"text":"有沒有即時串聯不是串聯喔有沒有即時串聯我們現在到底有沒有做到我們現在打造中心它至少有165的專線那165的專線不僅是在受理而已它也會建立一個後端的一個防治的行為像我本席所說的警政金融電視有沒有即時的串聯就剛剛有嗎"},{"start":26393.046,"end":26418.804,"text":"主委也稍微提到過一部分我們對於這些警示帳戶但是要確定他是警示帳戶之前我們必須要有一個慎重的去了解不能影響到正常的一些金流跟交易當然當然但是還是以安全為主剛剛本席所提到的趨勢科技他在最後他講其實最重要是那關鍵疫苗我們要比詐騙集團早一步我找他疫苗"},{"start":26419.344,"end":26434.062,"text":"所以AI的用途还有AI的应用它更重要的它绝对不是事后AI绝对是及时的及时的防弊及时的拦阻所以这个因为现在诈骗集团它本身"},{"start":26435.163,"end":26451.555,"text":"跨平台 跨產業 還跨國際所以我們政府絕對不能警政一套 金融一套然後電信一套 那一定追不上所以我們這一個部分到底現在是不是可以及時共享 及時阻斷所以你們現在還是各做各的"},{"start":26459.241,"end":26486.056,"text":"沒有我正要跟委員說明那我們現在就是縮短那個詐騙訊息通報到他下架的那個時間那我們現在是跟那個像Meta跟Line跟Google我們都是用電子通報的方式因為我們要通知他把這個訊息下架必須有法律依據你們可不可以就直接回答有沒有即時串聯當然我們彭主委跟我們部長我們現在通知給他們的話算不算即時串聯我們有沒有做到AI整個房價的即時串聯"},{"start":26487.228,"end":26511.543,"text":"那我們現在就是中間大家是說有一些必須去確認的部分是人工啊比如說如果有人仿冒那個黃仁勳先生的話我們必須去跟黃仁勳辦公室去確認這個會花一點時間是黃仁勳先生辦公室必須做確認但是前端跟後端我們現在都是用自動化的方式這塊我等一下要問通常在一兩個小時之內他們就會把它下架確認他是不法的時候一兩個小時"},{"start":26513.164,"end":26527.381,"text":"你要確認他這個是真的是不法的詐騙集團的我剛剛部長講的如果他是一個名人你至少要跟他問一下說現在網路上有你這個內容他會否認 否認我們就馬上處理"},{"start":26528.562,"end":26557.035,"text":"所以現在名人詐騙的案件比過去最猖狂的時候應該是少掉一些那我們現在也針對交友的 假金流的網路購物的 是慢慢在成長不過委員剛剛那個數字我覺得我們要回來對一下我們每一個禮拜看的數字當中沒有一個成長65%的或許它只是某一個單項或是某一個時間點那我們整個看起來是沒有這樣是緩緩的在下降案件數跟財損數那民眾沒有感覺是沒有感覺 我承認"},{"start":26558.977,"end":26562.483,"text":"所以剛剛部長還提到您剛剛講的那個跟身為詐騙有關嗎"},{"start":26564.88,"end":26587.628,"text":"他除了冒名嘛你那個可能是冒名那本席接著要問我們針對身為詐騙我們有沒有AI反制AI的這樣的一個措施這個跟委員報告一下這個用AI來反制AI身為詐騙這個當然我們有在做但是這個在技術上這個在技術上會有一些限制因為我們現在身為詐騙都是所謂的那個"},{"start":26589.332,"end":26616.967,"text":"那個就是對抗式的AI生成系統就是他在訓練的時候事實上裡面有兩個AI系統一個一直在生成假訊息一個一直在檢查說這個假訊息看起來像不像假訊息所以在這個這種AI系統裡面叫GAN這種系統裡面他已經本身都是經過AI檢測的所以AI去檢測AI的身為詐騙一定有所謂的false positive跟false negative這個事情是在理論上學理上就沒辦法百分之百的那個"},{"start":26618.528,"end":26632.023,"text":"完全防範的那我們現在做的另外一個方法就是我們想辦法要求所有的平台還有所有AI產生的工具必須去標示說這個AI的影像或者是這個影像或者是這個"},{"start":26633.244,"end":26656.35,"text":"影片他是AI產生他必須去做標示那這個事情事實上在以前在美國在拜登政府的時代美國政府也都要求各大平台去做標示只是現在就是因為川普政府上台以後他對這個事情要求比較少那我們最近也是在跟美國這個各大平台我事實上我上個禮拜才去跟美國的Google就談就是要求他們要做標示"},{"start":26656.932,"end":26675.092,"text":"就是我們台灣政府希望做的方式剛剛部長講很多那當然本席也要特別強調我們的政府現在一定要針對剛剛您有提到 身為的語音嘛未來一定更多 包含進入選舉一定有身為的語音 身為的影像 冒名的內容"},{"start":26677.054,"end":26704.66,"text":"政府要建立這種AI辨識的機制然後跟平台業者電信業者一定要建立這種高風險的模型然後快速通報快速下架的機制這一塊我們很希望我們政府能夠盡快來把它做到那保護我們所有的人民所以這一個部分我們希望這個詐騙現在都是AI化了所以我們希望我們的政府也能夠加緊腳步是"},{"start":26706.268,"end":26721.443,"text":"接著本席要跟院長要談的是AI醫療我們有看到衛福部在整個的AI應用也是非常非常的多有關遠距視訊醫療這塊院長您了解多少"},{"start":26726.462,"end":26727.483,"text":"現在做到什麼程度?"},{"start":26752.221,"end":26759.786,"text":"委員跟委員說明我們一開始就如同院長提到的我們的遠居醫療在健保的基礎是先從偏鄉"},{"start":26760.976,"end":26781.05,"text":"這是原住民族地區或者是離島開始然後逐步的擴大擴大我們目前已經擴大到資源不足地區涵蓋的範圍已經超過65個鄉鎮地區以上那同時也不限科別他是遠距視訊還是AI遠距醫療是哪一種本席問的是AI視訊醫療的話"},{"start":26787.754,"end":26817.052,"text":"AI 遠距醫療包含我不知道部長知道AI 五官鏡 AI 心電圖能夠很快的這個來判讀這個有在運用嗎現在有部分在運用就是說比如說在這個視網膜的檢測那我們現在有那個電子螢幕視鏡然後再通過AI協助判斷所以現在就部分運用那之後會陸陸續續更全面的開始進行有 我們在這個食藥署裡面有特別"},{"start":26818.172,"end":26842.563,"text":"針對這一類的AI的軟體我們叫做Smart Device就是智慧醫材要經過取證因為它會涉及到診斷跟這個決策所以它需要經過這個食藥署的這個財務登記許可之後才可以運用所以本席想建議我們院長我們這個AI時代來臨為了照顧更貼心的照顧我們很多的長者"},{"start":26843.903,"end":26862.138,"text":"包含偏鄉其實也跟院長提議其實像很多的園區台灣有很多園區台北新竹台南台中高雄都有其實在這個園區裡面很多的人才也很多的人在那邊工作他們可能也很難"},{"start":26864.64,"end":26889.613,"text":"請假特別這樣去看醫生可是現在AI的遠距視訊醫療它只要有醫務室然後有AI遠距視訊的這些設備它其實可以連結到大醫院也許他們就在園區內他們可以利用中午利用可能二三十分鐘大家來運用AI遠距視訊醫療下班的時候他再去拿藥"},{"start":26890.433,"end":26900.854,"text":"所以AI時代來臨其實我們可以為我們國人節省更多的時間而且兼顧照顧他們的健康我們希望未來這個可以加速的來進行"},{"start":26902.226,"end":26931.286,"text":"AI這個工作導入到生活是最最需要的我們要進入到應用的時代我們希望可以加速的來進行所以這個目的就是我剛剛第一開始所說的全民智慧生活網宣這個就是一個AI生活的時代包含我們走向主動式政府本席接下來很快的再講一個就是過去我們很多有關社福方面AI的應用可能都是民眾有需求他來申請但是我們有了"},{"start":26931.986,"end":26953.135,"text":"AI運用在政府治理我們可以走向主動式政府譬如說生育補助不是等你來申請我就知道啦因為我會有很多的數據生育補助低收入戶中低收入戶甚至身心障礙者的補助我們希望這一塊這個社福的方面也可以積極的來運用"},{"start":26954.235,"end":26967.237,"text":"院長可以嗎是 這個我們在資料治理的這一塊也是在時大AI新時代建設當中有個資料治理的這個區塊所以我們希望台灣進入這個AI時代我們也能夠跟上這整個的草原我們要加快腳步"},{"start":26968.563,"end":26996.575,"text":"所以我們要進入AI就有很多的算力電力就是算力我想大家都很清楚所以我們接著我們就要來請問行政院有關我們的電力的部分行政院有沒有去做一個壓力的測試哪一種國安級的壓力測試第一個我們AI時代來臨我們AI新增的電力的負載"},{"start":26997.817,"end":27018.235,"text":"還有我們這個突發的狀況碰到中東能源的衝擊再來我們現在三月底了馬上四月五六月五六七八月進入夏季的尖峰期這三個重疊整個疊加下來國安局的壓力測試院長本席想請教你電會夠用嗎"},{"start":27020.436,"end":27040.245,"text":"從2024年一直到現在每一次經濟部台電所送出來的報告對於我們這個AI的成長跟用電的成長經濟發展的成長它都精算在內而且每一次精算AI還沒有進入到最大的應用跟整個計算現在是這個中東的戰爭倒是我們現在要重新評估的"},{"start":27046.218,"end":27051.71,"text":"所以本席想請教如果天然氣這個進口我們中斷14天21天一個月兩個月怎麼辦怎麼辦"},{"start":27056.365,"end":27076.327,"text":"我們盡量在分散市場而且我們也有計畫分散市場買更貴的但能買多久我是說長期我們長期在分散市場而且我們現在已經有計畫要擴充我們的安全儲量的儲蓄潮我們希望把安全天數再往上多增加所以院長剛剛第一個問題您沒有正面回答"},{"start":27076.806,"end":27095.633,"text":"我相信這三重疊加下來我們的電力一定不夠那面對電力不夠今年夏天一定碰到請問哪一區會先撐不住然後我們哪一條主幹線會先超載哪些方面會開始被限縮就有的燃煤機組都會轉換成燃氣機組它的發電量"},{"start":27098.154,"end":27101.377,"text":"這邊有一份清大教授李敏說的2025年起每年夏天都會缺電"},{"start":27116.926,"end":27135.284,"text":"院長你認同嗎?就去年開始,每年夏天去年我們還好,沒有大缺電我們的安全量還在每次一缺電就跳電缺電跟跳電是不一樣的有多少的,這就是因為缺電所以它跳電"},{"start":27138.627,"end":27147.894,"text":"我們台灣很多的中小企業一跳電它的機器就燒壞幾百萬幾千萬的損失它真的是自己吞下去"},{"start":27149.358,"end":27170.695,"text":"部長說明一下去年的應用電情報跟委員報告其實我們每年都有在做電力的供需調查部長你覺得電夠用嗎其實電力是夠用的我跟委員報告剛剛您提到說AI的算力增加進來的話三重疊加下來夠用嗎我們有預估到2030年我們會需要增加5G瓦的電力"},{"start":27171.776,"end":27185.203,"text":"但是我們到2034年我們可以新增12.2GW的電力所以這個部分我們其實都有做一個長期的推估而且保證到2032年以前其實是不會缺電的一個情況"},{"start":27186.465,"end":27209.153,"text":"那現在這個中東的戰爭它到底會引起多少這個這個油氣供應設備的損失以及它破壞之後多少時間可以恢復這次我們過去沒有評估的那我們希望這個戰爭能夠急速的擬平下來那所有的設備能夠恢復供需秩序能夠恢復到正常所以本席也想繼續問這個電真的不夠用的時候請問"},{"start":27214.195,"end":27239.13,"text":"院長你到底是先保哪一個是先保科技電不夠用的時候你是先保科學園區還是你先保醫療先保通訊軍事國防還是民生我們很擔心最後都是稀釋民生民生還是最優先沒有民生沒有讓人民能夠安全生活下來你科技還是沒有人所以民生的用電我們認為是優先所以我們逐年在漲"},{"start":27240.231,"end":27246.199,"text":"調整電價的時候 民生我們也是最穩定的行政院可不可以在兩週內提出區域電網獨立運作"},{"start":27256.974,"end":27279.832,"text":"好 謝謝 麻煩請行政院送徐欣怡委員要求的報告謝謝 謝謝徐欣怡委員的諮詢謝謝卓院長 各相關部會首長的備詢報告會我們本會期排定政黨諮詢的委員均已經諮詢完畢謝謝卓院長 政府院長以及各部會首長列席答詢依照協商結論4月7號星期二上午9點繼續開會進行立法委員個人諮詢內政組"},{"start":27285.271,"end":27289.699,"text":"非常感谢刘许婷委员今天陪同我们一起参与今天的总咨询我们现在休息"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}