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陳志堅陳教授 歡迎台灣區測量工業同業工會秘書長 吳志葵 謝謝汽車商業同業工會全聯會理事長 劉景淳 劉理事長我們財政部政務次長 陳永勝 陳次長 歡迎"},{"start":2161.107,"end":2169.536,"text":"官務署蘇淑貞副署長歡迎複稅署李志忠副署長歡迎國發會專門委員吳明修"},{"start":2176.946,"end":2185.49,"text":"交通部公共運輸及監理師專門委員趙敬維 歡迎環境部氣候變遷署何文淵副組長 歡迎經濟部產發署陳國軒副組長 歡迎能源署高淑芳組長 歡迎法務部廖江縣參事 歡迎好"},{"start":2207.794,"end":2233.56,"text":"在與會人員發言前我做一下宣告每一位發言八分鐘結束前一分鐘會按您提醒原則上依專家學者之簽到順序發言委員若需發言請到主席台登記每位五分鐘全部發言完畢後請行政機關就業管全責整體回應現在我們先請賴世保委員來發言"},{"start":2242.937,"end":2256.732,"text":"謝謝主席及各位先進那麼我今天是很有感覺來參加這個公務會來拜託財政部的剛上任的次長以後可能當部長的要仔細聽這議者的心聲希望經濟部、產報署大聲一點"},{"start":2263.28,"end":2271.349,"text":"對財政部跟董事長的業者也大聲的講出來今天全部都列了很好第一個現在來講我們跟美國談的關稅談判ART要從17.5%降為0這個衝擊不可謂不大"},{"start":2280.78,"end":2306.63,"text":"如果把汽車業以及它的一個零組件業全部加起來大概一般估算有三十萬人這三十萬人的生計其實是一個大事情那現在政府匡列三十億說要幫他轉型幹什麼的這個如果三十億我是不知道三十億怎麼估算來的等一下去產發署可以說明一下三十億怎麼算來的我覺得加一個零差不多"},{"start":2309.611,"end":2320.103,"text":"你這個來講的話你現在來講的話大概全部垮掉了大概全部垮掉了你這個要怎麼活 我就不知道怎麼活所以我具體的針對這個提綱第一題"},{"start":2323.359,"end":2348.506,"text":"就是既然這樣子然後除非我們政府就正式對外宣布棋職行業我不要了通通不要了通通Face out關門啦回去吃自己啦通通不要了否則的話應該增加他的競爭力嘛除了你的30億以外你增加什麼競爭力產生部就有90半年的把他的關鍵零組件"},{"start":2350.527,"end":2356.763,"text":"比如說它的發動機engine比如說它的變速箱這些關鍵零組件調為零"},{"start":2360.203,"end":2386.21,"text":"這個我跟林部長談過了部長沒有反對啦但是他講的是說什麼我們給日本這樣的規則因為你進來的很多領主進從日本來的嘛那是不是我們要求日本能夠對等對我們是不降稅這個我同意啊這個你們去談啦但是一個重要的關鍵點就是你要整車為林"},{"start":2388.447,"end":2404.936,"text":"要讓汽車廠零組件業不要全部倒掉這時候關鍵性的我們要進口的零組件我剛剛已經幾個了 事實上不只那兩個了還有很多 這些關稅同仁要叫我一點"},{"start":2406.516,"end":2430.584,"text":"這是第一個我距離的呼應今天這個提綱第二個三十億元是要怎麼樣做人員訓練還是怎麼樣三十億元我覺得是不夠的這裡面你說我用專款來補助他什麼追星還是什麼的成本假如沒有辦法做到我剛剛所提到的成本就這麼高你怎麼跟他競爭每次要進來"},{"start":2434.586,"end":2460.447,"text":"那這裡面來講的話因為我們這個沒有搞定這個財政部跟經濟部要看好啊很多的想買車的潛在的購買者因為你這個沒有搞定ART現在還要150天啊因為根據他們的相關的法律就已經失效了即便你不能講要重彈你不叫美國也是要重彈啊"},{"start":2462.092,"end":2486.06,"text":"美國要給你技術三零一啊親民主義看得到我們政府掌握這部分啦老是只有為美國示從這其實是很奇怪的第三個題目你既然我對於就根據WTO原來進口關稅分子三失一直在加入WTO之後在2010年才調降為17.5"},{"start":2490.199,"end":2512.402,"text":"那些只有對美國是零關稅啊,對其他國家呢?對其他國家這個才是不要估算一下喔我們就要想說,如果我們的關稅就提出來行政院,提出來大立法院說我要把美國進來的17.5要降為零那我要提案,所有人的進口關稅通通是零"},{"start":2514.079,"end":2541.349,"text":"我們這樣汽車廠不是更慘但是這樣子對於其他的其他國家進來的因為這個WTO公平貿易的原則你可能對其他的對其他的國家也要降為零啊這個都要整個算喔財政部要及早去算因為這個都要提出來財政部要研究功課第一個關鍵性的零組件來現在可以降為零了"},{"start":2543.229,"end":2566.2,"text":"儘快地踢出來 我要把它降為零第二個 如果其他的國家進來的汽車 我也降為零這樣子我們整年度的關稅會少多少 這個關稅少多少經濟部這邊就是要認真去做研究 看會不會報告出來"},{"start":2567.541,"end":2582.768,"text":"從此一場評估到底17.5%降為0的話大概有多少人會失業過去講是幾千人是不是這個數字來講清楚要怎麼樣能夠渡過這個難關我覺得這個只要你們提出來"},{"start":2583.988,"end":2601.041,"text":"我所了解的我們立法院都有全力支持我們希望好不容易扶持一個產業不要說因為跟台灣美國這到底台灣美國嗎我們只希望從20加N降為15%就要做這麼大的一個讓步其實"},{"start":2603.183,"end":2629.162,"text":"其實它裡面 我們英文叫justify是不是justify 是不是公允 這個都值得大家考慮好 我簡單的發言到這裡 請各位指教 謝謝好 謝謝賴司保委員我們再補充介紹 我們現在到達的教授國立政治大學財政學系 羅光達羅教授 歡迎"},{"start":2632.076,"end":2638.665,"text":"好 接下來我們請第二位發言 請中華經濟研究院副研究員戴智賢戴副研究員"},{"start":2649.303,"end":2676.764,"text":"主席各位大家早那針對這四個題目的話我想做一下我們的觀察跟說明那第一個問題其實我們的認為是其實我們如果要強化未來在國內汽車產業的內需市場的這個競爭力的話其實調降這種沒有產製零件的關稅是有利於我們的發展原因是什麼原因是因為台灣目前的汽車產業主要是一個內需型的產業"},{"start":2677.805,"end":2698.877,"text":"那我們大部分的汽車生產跟組裝大概年產量是20到25萬之間那大部分的車子其實都是在本國做銷售除了有一部分是賣到其他國家之外其實我們都是內需為主所以如果能夠降臨組件的那個成本的時候呢其實對於國內廠商的這個生產成本是有幫助的而且會很直接"},{"start":2699.597,"end":2720.286,"text":"但是在這個降稅的前提之下我覺得還有另外一件事情可能是需要去提比方說我們是不是在主管部會或是車廠上面他能夠去提車輛的出口的計畫因為我們過去看到的研究上來看的話國際上的做法通常都是透過稅賦的方式然後放大他的產品出口的狀況"},{"start":2721.38,"end":2750.379,"text":"那這個放大出口其實有個好處第一個就是說因為我的使用量增加了那後續其實可能會讓國際的零件廠商在台灣設置一些warehouse甚至是小的生產的據點那從這個角度出發讓FDI能夠上來所以這個方式才或許有機會變成是我們現在研發了很多新的技術然後成為一個比較重要的零組件生產而且是走OEM體系的國家因為這一塊是目前台灣相對比較弱勢的區塊"},{"start":2751.58,"end":2765.061,"text":"那另外一個部分就是說如果能夠採取這個方式進來的話除了車價有下降的空間那關稅的部分可能也會有稅損那這個部分其實要怎麼樣去做設計跟平衡可能會是另外一個問題"},{"start":2766.052,"end":2781.798,"text":"那第二個就是在三十億這件事情上的話我們目前觀察到其實三十億目前的規劃對於長期來講不是只有因應ART這件事情的話是不太夠的原因是什麼原因是因為我們現在在ART這個部分看到的可能是一個短期的衝擊"},{"start":2782.958,"end":2809.279,"text":"但是長期來講的話因為WTO的架構上其他國家的商會也會要求同樣的比照辦理做這種所謂的關稅下降的動作所以第一個部分就是我們在30億的補助上面除了生產廠商之外連帶也會影響到保修的體系、銷售的體系那這一整個所謂的汽車產業的環節是非常大的它基本上都會打到這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":2810.22,"end":2829.458,"text":"那當然雖然有一些專家會認為說可能在集團的資源配置上面我們也看到說他從做國產車然後開始進口車為主的這種銷售模式不過他終究還是會讓原來的供應鏈受到衝擊所以這是第一個可能要去預備因應的因為這可能是一個長期結構性的問題"},{"start":2830.979,"end":2849.899,"text":"那第二個就是我們的觀察目前來看的話台灣對外的汽車零組件出口大部分都是以AM市場然後以車燈板件這個為主那過去這個問題不大原因是因為我只要外型基本上一樣就可以了可是未來我們在這種產品出口上面來講的話會遇到第一個是智權的問題"},{"start":2850.72,"end":2865.107,"text":"我相信國內的廠商大概已經過去幾年慢慢這個問題就浮現出來智慧財產權然後國外的廠商跨海來台灣做這個告訴的動作所以怎麼樣提升技術的特殊性避免這個問題就變成是一個重點"},{"start":2867.455,"end":2889.386,"text":"那從汽車科技這個角度上來看的話未來的車輛不管是在電動車或是在車輛電子的這些技術上來講越來越多東西它需要跟車上的這一些電子零組件能夠做互通這個已經不是我們過去零組件尤其是在Apple Market裡面所熟悉的模式這個其實也需要去做所謂的投資跟升級的動作"},{"start":2890.266,"end":2915.965,"text":"所以如果從這個角度上來看30億的安排可能在短期上是妥適但是長期上來講可能有一些東西需要再思考再討論一下尤其是國內每年有相當的經費也投資在車輛科技的發展那這部分是不是能夠再擴大讓我們的零組件的產業能夠變成國際重要的一環這個可能是一個重要的做法"},{"start":2916.718,"end":2935.94,"text":"那在第三個問題上來看的話,國人的購車成本除了關稅之外,另外一個部分比較大的在貨物稅啦那我們現在基本上看到就是貨物稅的一個條例,實際上是已經有實質的補貼的效果出來不過這個部分是因為消費者端會有需求"},{"start":2936.681,"end":2951.912,"text":"那我們會建議說除了在關稅部分去做思考之外其實也可以去比照一下是不可能把台灣過去在各個車廠跟生產據點他們其實都有所謂的區域研發中心這樣的一個體系在拉回來"},{"start":2952.572,"end":2973.587,"text":"因為過去在產發署工業局的時代裡面其實確實有這樣做它給廠商一定的誘因比方說貨物稅減免2.5%的方式強化了台灣在整個全球車廠研發的位置所以那個年代其實有很多大家都熟悉的車是在台灣做研發比方像Focus像Artis這一些車子都在台灣做"},{"start":2974.528,"end":2999.882,"text":"那後來因為沒有這個誘因的時候其實這個研發中心的功能就慢慢萎縮了大概就目前只剩下幾個車廠還有這樣的一個功能在裡面所以我會建議說除了在關稅之外我們其實對於廠商端的這個部分的設計是不是也能夠利用稅制的方式在引誘它然後讓我們的汽車產業能夠在新的這樣的一個結果上面取得一個比較好的做法"},{"start":3000.602,"end":3028.041,"text":"這個可能是後續上面我們可以去思考的一個方向那最後一個提綱雖然有建議是以碳排放里程的每公里的標準來做不過這個在現實上是有點困難啦所以短期比較可行的方式也許是我們重新來檢討一下現在的牌照稅收費的那個級距是不是能夠跟國際現在的級距分類能夠開始做對接"},{"start":3029.122,"end":3050.337,"text":"因為國際的級距上通常是500、500當作一個級距在做但是台灣比較特別一點有個501到600然後就開始用這樣的一個級距分類這個跟大部分國家在開發這樣的一個科技還有就是它徵稅那個基礎可能不太一樣那這個好處是什麼就是如果我們未來能夠把這個級距分類開始對軌比較到"},{"start":3053.719,"end":3078.666,"text":"大部分的這種國際的標準上來的時候在廠商這邊的行為上它也比較容易去引進國際上的一些新的節能科技那第二個就是說我們也可以去參照像這一種它在電動車跟燃油車轉換的一個對照的一個基準上這個相對就比較好去溝通而不要花很多力氣重新再去做以上是眾議院這邊的一個看法"},{"start":3080.475,"end":3108.512,"text":"好 謝謝大副研究員接下來我們請黃建豪委員發言對不起 我們先請陳教授好了請國立台北科技大學車輛工程學學系陳志堅教授 謝謝主席還有各位先進 大家好我想今天在這邊的試題我想第一題來講就是說"},{"start":3110.197,"end":3125.238,"text":"這個很明確沒有辦法生產的國內沒辦法生產的這個汽車零組件降低甚至免除關稅那提升這個國內車廠的這個競爭力那我個人是認為是是有需要的因為這個就是"},{"start":3126.86,"end":3142.992,"text":"我們保護本土產業這個是因為對應這個美車這個降稅那我想在第三題這個事實上是連動的因為對消費者來講他們這個一定是希望越便宜越好"},{"start":3143.672,"end":3160.64,"text":"但是對這個產業界來講那還是要維持一定的競爭力所以我想如果能夠對這個國內沒有辦法生產的這些汽車零組件可以做一些降低關稅那增加這個成本的優勢的話這個是我是這個贊成的"},{"start":3165.903,"end":3182.792,"text":"那另外就是說剛剛前面戴先生發言就是說能夠把這個國外的汽車廠的這些零組件的這些研發引入國內那我想也是要這個能夠有一些誘因"},{"start":3184.552,"end":3209.061,"text":"那這樣子在這個無法生產那變成可以生產那這個當然對本土的產業會提升那但是我想就是汽車業基本上是國內市場所以它的產量可能沒辦法像其他的國際廠這樣子可以做全球的一個行銷那所以它的產量會有限定性的一個限制"},{"start":3210.281,"end":3218.427,"text":"所以我想在如何對量還有價格優勢取得平衡這是要思考的"},{"start":3219.704,"end":3242.447,"text":"那第二點就是說這個30億那30億我想這個是韌性而且是短時間的一個措施好像實施是到明年年底就會是就必須要把它這個的滋用有一些時間上的限制所以其實它是短期的那中期的話我想"},{"start":3243.508,"end":3255.736,"text":"對整個汽車產業整個長久的一個變化的話那這30億我想是不足的所以建議就是說中期大概就是說關鍵零組件這個車用電子這個控制系統"},{"start":3261.299,"end":3279.491,"text":"還有低碳的製造能力這個是必須要發展的尤其長期台灣的優勢在半導體在自通訊的這些產業如果能夠結合我想這個會打造台灣比較高附加價值的汽車產業的生態我想這個是一個比較長遠的發展好"},{"start":3285.933,"end":3303.612,"text":"第三題的話就是說剛剛我們講過就是說購車意願當然價格如果變低的話那當然就是誘因會增加那銷售量也會增加但是對本土產業會有一些衝擊那其實我們現在看的是產業"},{"start":3305.194,"end":3330.934,"text":"那個人在學校尤其在這個車輛系那我就跟學生講就是說如果這個真的開放了那這個車廠也都關了都沒了那各位是不是將來都是到台積電那所以意思也就是說我們還是要保留本土產業尤其這個汽車是這個非常基本的這個工業所以"},{"start":3333.84,"end":3359.465,"text":"所以如果要開放我想可能我是建議就是說分階段那有差別化那因為現在面對美國關稅的這個議題那如果單一國家降低那當然剛剛賴委員講到就是會有WTO這些問題但是我想這個還是必須要有差別化你如果貿然一次全部開放那這個衝突會比較大這個衝擊會比較大"},{"start":3362.712,"end":3372.445,"text":"如果能夠分階段這個是比較好那既然可以對消費者有一些favor然後也對本土產業減少他的衝擊那最後就是牌照稅"},{"start":3377.93,"end":3401.162,"text":"牌照稅大概是如果是純電車的話現在是2030之前免牌照稅也免這個燃料稅好像是這個樣子所以這個議題其實是focus在這幾年如何對燃油車混合動力車還有這個插電式的這個混合動力車這些車輛怎麼樣去重新定義這個這個這個護稅這個牌照稅那"},{"start":3408.781,"end":3435.041,"text":"這個如果在新車的時候我們有定義一個表就像現在的CC數CC數為什麼容易執行因為不管是新車舊車車子的CC數不會變所以它比較容易去在行政實施的成本上會比較低但是如果改成碳排那碳排會變新車跟舊車這個一定會不一樣"},{"start":3436.382,"end":3464.436,"text":"所以這個時候就很難去做這個認定所以我的建議是說在2030之前在電車這個還沒有這個牌照稅之前我們在對新車是不是可以分階段的一個實施因為現在目標比較明確它就是直接針對這個燃油車或者是混合動力車那去做一些碳排的認定"},{"start":3465.496,"end":3490.809,"text":"那當然這個認定還是有一些工程的一些基礎因為混合動力車它基本上是油車但是插電式的混合動力車又是另外一個問題那廠商的資料都是充滿電然後再去跑那但是一般使用者這個在歐盟這個的經驗裡面大概跑到後面大家都不充電懶得充電那這個時候都變成一個純粹的混合動力車所以這個的認定就會比較"},{"start":3496.599,"end":3509.347,"text":"會比較麻煩 會比較有一些爭議所以我想以上這是我個人對前面的試題簡單的一個意見的陳述 謝謝好 我們謝謝陳志堅 陳教授接下來請黃建豪委員"},{"start":3529.517,"end":3543.838,"text":"好謝謝我們林世民主席來這樣子的一個公聽會在場各位專家學者各位產業界代表大家早安我是立法委員黃建豪今天會有這個進口車整車零組件的這個公聽會的原因當然也是因為對等關稅開始之後"},{"start":3546.481,"end":3562.186,"text":"國內的這個產業跟輿論有發生一些變化那本席在過去也曾經提過說第一個是進口整車關稅要降稅至2.5%那在上個會期也提到說這個進口零組件應該關稅降到0%那原始當然是因為我們觀察到一件事情雖然經濟部認為說在對等關稅之後對國內車市的衝擊只會影響到1.1%但是我們從數據上來講"},{"start":3570.309,"end":3574.111,"text":"國內的國產車的產值2023年的時候產值我們掌握到的數據還有2301億元到2025年的時候剩下1900億元所以換句話說整個產值蒸發了400億所以我想應該不是只有1.1%的衝擊如果如果真的這個美國車"},{"start":3586.298,"end":3609.27,"text":"整車進口確實真的零關稅進來之後我想它的衝擊應該會比這個400億更大包含說現在大家也都在觀望所以我們才提相關的修法也才有加上今天的公聽會那當然我們從整體的這個汽車零組件的出口或者產值來講確實因為裡面也包含了出口到國外去的一些關鍵零組件所以當然整體產值看起來很高但是如果回到國內車市回到國內的就業市場來講就會回到我剛剛提到的整體的這個數據是下降的所以我們才需要說"},{"start":3615.854,"end":3639.133,"text":"我本人個人的立場是希望說在這個進口零組件的部分如果說現在我們跟美國談的ART的部分美國的整車進來零關稅美國的零組件進來也是零關稅那這樣會直接影響到我想就是我們國內整車的就是所謂國產車的這部分你的組裝如果你的零組件不是來自美國的話那你的成本就一定比其他人更高"},{"start":3639.753,"end":3668.235,"text":"那在今年2月26號我跟經濟部長在質詢在談那個美國關稅質詢的時候他也說那未來我們是不是有可能產業去多購買美國的零組件我想這也是不符不切實際也不符現實的狀況所以我們當然希望說如果在這樣的前提之下未來我們在國內在面對各國進口零組件的部分因為雖然現在有所謂國產車但是我知道我們關鍵的包含說一些變速箱引擎等等的這些關鍵的東西還是靠國外進口那如果"},{"start":3669.196,"end":3694.206,"text":"完全仰賴美國的話我想對於國內的車市跟對國內的這個製車工業會造成很大的影響跟衝擊那既然已經有這個ART的部分已經談了說要跟美國要談這個所謂進口零關稅的部分那跟其他國家歐洲或日本或其他國家的領主権他進來台灣我認為應該也要把關稅降至零那這樣領主権進來之後我想從我收到的資訊來講"},{"start":3695.306,"end":3720.906,"text":"對於國內的這個整車的這個領主對整車的工業這個產業鏈它的衝擊才能夠降到最低那我們的國產車在國內的車市也才能夠保有持續保有持續的競爭力那不然如果美國車進來零關稅用美國零件的車進來也零關稅那其他的車子關稅一樣維持在17.5%我想一開始的競爭的優勢就不見了所以在這個前提之下我想基於公平貿易基於國內競爭的優勢應該也是要讓其他國家的這個"},{"start":3724.408,"end":3750.161,"text":"進口零組件進到零關稅的部分還不會造成這個產業競爭不公的問題所以在針對台灣無產製的零件的部分我們也希望說產業界能夠支持也希望經濟部跟財政部能夠支持讓只要是台灣無產製的這個零組件的部分能夠進口零關稅那我想這樣同時既然台灣沒有產製那我想對於這個國內的其他的業者就如果你是在台灣生產的零組件"},{"start":3751.121,"end":3764.921,"text":"你不管是外銷或者是內銷至少我們沒有再不會被關稅受到衝擊但是我們之前自己沒做可是我必須進口進來才能夠把這車子完成的這個前提之下我也希望這個部分我們的關稅能夠降至零"},{"start":3766.854,"end":3789.282,"text":"那至於整車降稅降至零的部分我想跟他業界跟很多學者提到一件事情當然如果整車降至零我想對於國內的產業的衝擊會非常的直接所以我覺得這部分可能還要再收集各家的意見收集我們產業意見跟學界的意見然後也要聊給消費者的市場我想這個整車降至所有所有車降至零除了美國社會意見談了之外"},{"start":3789.882,"end":3812.961,"text":"其他國家的車竟然要不要完全零關稅當然最終目標我們是參加消費者的消費者立場當然希望這樣子但是站在這個產業的立場站在照顧勞工立場我認為這個可能還是要逐步的開放那是情況來決定但是我覺得在整車進口零關稅之前至少要先做到這個零組件進口要將零關稅的這個部分的目標先能夠達成以上我是我的意見 謝謝好 謝謝黃建豪委員"},{"start":3820.307,"end":3823.338,"text":"接下來我們請台灣區車輛工業同業工會秘書長吳志奎吳秘書長"},{"start":3835,"end":3855.505,"text":"各位委員各位我們政府的官員還有我們專家學者今天很高興有這個機會來跟大家報告一下我們汽車產業的一些狀況今天的媒體已經都有所報導就是財政部對於這個零組件降關稅整車關稅還有這個所謂牌照稅的這樣一個調整"},{"start":3860.786,"end":3874.903,"text":"財政部有具體的一些意見那我這邊就不再多做這個說明那我只針對我們所關切的一些這個無產制零組件降關稅這個議題來向各位報告我今天準備了幾頁簡報"},{"start":3878.047,"end":3892.203,"text":"那我們知道關稅這個為什麼川普政府會被法院判為無效因為關稅這個議題在每個國家都是要經過國會同意之後才辦理所以關稅這個議題是經由談判"},{"start":3895.728,"end":3920.288,"text":"出來的這個結果所以也不是說我們自己先降或者是說我們要求別人要不要降這都是不是很務實的一些意見所以這個關稅很多大部分我們可以看到川普把這個整車關稅提上來主要是保護國內產業的一個概況那對我們國家來講我們看到第一頁我們的關稅的一個結構"},{"start":3922.269,"end":3949.348,"text":"事實上在加入WTO之前我們是30%我們能談到加入WTO之後能17.5%這當時是非常非常不容易而且是非常重要的一個成果讓我們數十年的汽車產業能能持續的維持這個是很重要的一個現在來看要談到這樣的成果已經是非常困難那時候我們看我們零件的結構"},{"start":3951.308,"end":3979.891,"text":"我們整車是30%那零件很多重要的零組件不管是我們的煞車啊 避震啊 懸吊啊這都是重要的關鍵零組件為什麼它關稅可以那時候維持這麼高的關稅一方面是政府為了鼓勵零組件發展而且同時照顧整車產業因為在整車貨品的關稅跟零組件的關稅一定要有一個稅差"},{"start":3981.107,"end":4009.763,"text":"你才能維持一個產業的均衡的發展再來這個背景是因為當初有自治慾的規定我們整車為了呼應回應政府的政策所以對這個零件的關稅並沒有去做一個特別的要求可是我們到現在來看我們的整車關稅已經降到17.5可是我們的零件關稅"},{"start":4011.817,"end":4034.224,"text":"很多都是維持在15這個稅差已經讓我們整車的成本負擔已經出現了一些問題所以今天來向各位報告那我們來看車子的動力最重要的就是引擎跟變速箱"},{"start":4035.031,"end":4061.643,"text":"在變速箱在加入WTT之前就已經是零了為什麼是零因為變速箱非常機密投資非常龐大他甚至超過引擎的投資那時候已經是確定不會有人在國內去生產變速箱所以很斷然的那時候就已經是零了可是引擎我們認為我們還有機會所以就維持在20可是當整車一直降下來之後到"},{"start":4062.628,"end":4088.934,"text":"我們降到17.52011年的時候財政部看到這個稅制不合理因為引擎已經餓死了我們整車17.5財政部主動降到17.5當時我們業界也沒有什麼特別的意見那現在的情況已經是非常刻不容緩了因為"},{"start":4092.601,"end":4120.628,"text":"我們先看在下一頁我們再看下一頁我們去看全球的主要汽車市場發達的國家中國當然從金融海嘯之後他一直是全球排在第一的市場銷售量我們看他整車15%他的零件平均關稅是6到10那我們看美國"},{"start":4122.014,"end":4136.261,"text":"美國更特別了他乘用車都非常低只有2.5可是他的小貨車他的pick up是他三大車廠在國內生產而且是靠這樣的一個車型"},{"start":4140.54,"end":4166.798,"text":"的價值能有較高的一個利潤所以他的貨車一直處於保護的狀態所以25%但是他零件也是零到6%那種種我們可以看出各個國家第一個反映的我們的整車跟零件的關稅一定要有一個合理的差距至少應該是50%以上再來"},{"start":4170.945,"end":4185.882,"text":"這些汽車發達的國家他為了市場的擴增所以他去跟其他國家談了很多自由貿易協定自由貿易協定我們可以看到每個國家至少"},{"start":4187.85,"end":4207.971,"text":"有到十來個甚至到二十三四十個國家都有一個自由貿易協定這自由貿易協定對這些汽車發達的汽車是很重要的一個談判的項目一個籌碼最終自由貿易的目的是應該消除貿易障礙貿易障礙第一個就是關稅"},{"start":4209.718,"end":4236.875,"text":"所以在這些自由貿易我們可以看得出來很多在彈成之後它的零組件就直接會降為零但是整車因為它有勞工經濟很龐大的效益所以它並不會說直接降為零甚至可能長達10年20年的保護都不會我們看美國跟韓國的自由貿易協定美國的小貨車它可以長達20年"},{"start":4239.547,"end":4252.788,"text":"維持不降稅這個都非常的所有的例子都非常講得非常清楚這個請大家來參考我們再看下一頁所以我們談到我們這些產業的"},{"start":4254.657,"end":4282.455,"text":"發展困難第一個當然我們講說市場規模難以擴大跟我們後面講的二三四五都有相關的關聯那第二個政府政策逐年減少從哪邊看出來我們支持法人科專或是政府輔導產業的經費逐年在下降這很明顯那即使是我們講這三十億的任性預算可是它的效率只有兩年兩年之後怎麼辦沒有人可以給答案"},{"start":4283.475,"end":4302.049,"text":"那另外就是整車零組件剛才談的這個結構長期不合理沒有檢討調整我們要怎麼樣降低製造成本那第四個長期欠缺自由貿易協定支撐進出大家都知道如果說當零件都降為零整車組件下降"},{"start":4303.206,"end":4318.594,"text":"我們出口也可以跟別人同樣對等的去零關稅去做競爭這樣子的機會對我們業者也都做過評估也都有所準備就譬如在最後第五項台美協議"},{"start":4319.855,"end":4337.526,"text":"我們的整車出口已經高達多少我們今天所講的可以高達27.5我們整車出口到每關27.5那我們怎麼跟其他國家競爭零件也可以高達10到31%是不是出口都造成困難再來進口要變成零關稅我們企業產業內外被壓迫"},{"start":4341.869,"end":4366.904,"text":"各位要了解我們現在產業現在面臨的是內外被壓迫我不曉得政府能替我們做什麼我們再看我們下一頁政府提了這邊包括立法委員提了很多提案我這邊也有一些見解比如說直接降為零我們可以為了加入CPTPP我們會對其他國家表示善意"},{"start":4368.451,"end":4379.417,"text":"我想這個大家心中只有評論但是如果這要降包括後面的整次要降2.5先要降的是什麼所有的零件關稅都降為零"},{"start":4380.6,"end":4403.48,"text":"才來談整車是不是要降為零這才是一個正常合理產業國家政策上面應該有的高度跟想法不是只看到一點所以我第一點提到了希望有更高的高度點是貨品本身線是我們供應鏈上中下游這個面是全面勞工產業發展"},{"start":4405.054,"end":4424.206,"text":"所以這是非常重要的我想我們希望我們是一個正常發展的一個產業我們當然沒有要求給政府給太多的資源合理和友善的一個製造生產的環境是我們當前最迫切的我們希望能加速趕快把這個關稅降為零好 以上謝謝好 謝謝吳秘書長"},{"start":4429.107,"end":4435.871,"text":"好接下來我們請第六位汽車商業同業工會全聯會理事長劉景淳理事長發言"},{"start":4445.78,"end":4462.967,"text":"主席還有各位委員還有各位學者專家大家早安大家好我是中華民國企業商業同意工會全國聯合會劉景村理事長那針對我們第一項就是台美對等關稅協定那就是每次的汽車從17.5%的關稅要降為0那國產車將面臨嚴重的打擊是否來修正海關進口稅責那我個人的意見是"},{"start":4473.411,"end":4487.326,"text":"當然要降稅啦因為降稅有好幾個原因就是在WTO的國家尤其是先進製造汽車的國家其實大家的關稅都很低在我的這個報告裡面等一下都會寫"},{"start":4488.928,"end":4506.897,"text":"那基本上我認為低關稅是全世界先進國家的一個趨勢所以台灣應該也要跟著去降尤其是每次的汽車降了那沒有不應該排除其他的"},{"start":4508.859,"end":4524.198,"text":"關稅不降只是說如何來逐年遞減那是不是減到最後剩2.5也不一定要歸零所以但是這會有什麼效應直接效應就是因為下降了所以我們國人就可以充分的享受開"},{"start":4525.359,"end":4541.997,"text":"各國品牌的進口車你要高效能的或是比較低價的代步車都是可以開進口的那我想很多歐洲啦還是日本原裝的這些進口的車如果變低價他們的品質確實很好那長期"},{"start":4543.258,"end":4564.454,"text":"的效應就是說因為國產車要繼續生存所以國產車要繼續生存有兩條路一個就是你要逼自己技術升級或者是你國內就是連國家都要不管是工研院還是各單位你就要讓他提升來輔導技術但是這種技術是要有"},{"start":4565.174,"end":4582.281,"text":"要有門檻的而且要規定的而不是像過去的五六十年只有保護但是我們的製造廠卻在忽悠政府我只要有做出來就好所以我一直在講說我們是汽車的代工廠還是製造廠"},{"start":4583.981,"end":4594.66,"text":"製造廠裡面都有很多的研發部門很多的研發包括我們台灣的AI科技其實很多東西就是它的研發的一個廠的研發經費占"},{"start":4596.38,"end":4616.584,"text":"工廠的公司的很大的營運部分那台灣的這些代工廠基本上你看目前台灣的這幾大汽車廠他們的年產量那一點點有些車型那一點點但是你看他財報不會是負的喔所以就代表台灣的汽車製造廠他們最終的這個製造還有他們的損益表跟"},{"start":4624.065,"end":4650.952,"text":"盈利這與國際上的是不一樣很多這個生產量是應該是不能在台灣生產但是為什麼能在台灣生產還能賺錢所以這是我們一起要來研究的就是說基本上我們是要我們是要輔導製造廠還是要繼續輔導代工廠如果說代工廠的成本不能降也不是政府全面要來降稅而是要求牧場"},{"start":4651.812,"end":4678.905,"text":"不管是日本、德國或各國或韓國廠因為我有聽說就是牧場給我們台灣的基本零件可能是我們經濟體的量不夠它比世界其他國家的零件成本包括引擎變速箱等等都還貴那這不單成本的高不是只有關稅的問題是因為我們的取得就比其他國家還高那第二項就是若國外牧場"},{"start":4680.673,"end":4694.762,"text":"不是 第二項是政府雖然以匡列30億的預算作為專業補助那我想30億哪怕你300億給他可能都不夠重點就是這30億要如何去補助車廠要寫出計畫那審計畫的人"},{"start":4700.819,"end":4715.632,"text":"我們一樣是那句話你有把汽車產業當成國際市場嗎就像我們國內現在能夠全世界有護國省等等就是我們的很多國內的AI還有科技產業都是以世界"},{"start":4716.593,"end":4725.142,"text":"的市場為目標那如果說我們一位國產車就是以國內市場為目標那我認為我認為應該適度的開放進口競爭讓他們一家有"},{"start":4731.721,"end":4758.204,"text":"有競爭力的公司他就會多重去考量當然降低關稅或跟牧場溝通甚至走出國際市場那他走出國際市場的時候他的經濟規模量就夠了我認為這個來匡列30億才會夠甚至每年來或是一段時間來增加只要有達成我們政府的預期國產車真的進步了走向全世界哪怕是"},{"start":4758.824,"end":4777.292,"text":"我們每年框300億我都覺得值得但是一定要有真正的數據出來那針對第三題就是說消費者端來看就是進口關稅過去達30%以上那WTO一直降到現在的17.5那我認為繼續的降稅"},{"start":4784.752,"end":4802.788,"text":"對我們台灣是加分的因為才能跟全世界來但是剛才有講說跟其他的國家來做貿易協定我認為因為我們自由品牌目前為止只有一個納智捷那這個基本上我們如果有三五個是強項我認為這個來"},{"start":4806.893,"end":4829.368,"text":"來談這個自由貿易協定可能會比較符合啦但是如果說以零件來講我樂見其成啦因為我們的製造業還是需要因為有些過去在引擎變速箱方面我們自製的那個品質跟效能真的跟國際差很多那有些不過我個人的潛見是"},{"start":4831.238,"end":4855.524,"text":"若數十年來最重要的零件還不是自己做還是在做組裝廠那政府應該要把政策再歸納為你是製造廠還是組裝廠那給他們不同的條件跟優惠你是製造廠就代表你投入很多研發你的目標是全世界那就有待希望政府就能扶持那樣你如果是組裝廠"},{"start":4856.724,"end":4885.149,"text":"就是國會拿東西給你組裝你根本研發費用都沒有那坦白講我現在如果身價好一點我也可以開組裝廠啊我根本不想研發所以以上就是說希望當然降稅是很好那最後一項就是說與就是稅牌照稅的問題我認為未來用真正的碳的排量是最好的但是我要呼籲學者跟所有委員如果"},{"start":4887.28,"end":4902.534,"text":"電動車因為電動車的電池也是個污染如果說電動車使用者不能使用綠能的話那短期間使用電動車小煙囪變大煙囪有什麼好所以我們可以給電動車很多優惠"},{"start":4907.879,"end":4921.786,"text":"但是我們某方面也要要求使用電動車的人若適當的去使用綠能我認為這才能達到我們的淨零碳排那真正的碳排我認為是"},{"start":4923.564,"end":4948.881,"text":"要來研究一套如何來讓碳排出來那碳排的越多當然就要課增越多的稅所以日本是越老舊的車課增越多就是這樣子以上報告謝謝大家謝謝好謝謝劉理事長那接下來我們請最後一位學者國立政治大學財政學系羅光達羅教授好謝謝"},{"start":4963.399,"end":4982.479,"text":"主席還有各位委員還有現場的各部會的代表還有專家學者大家早安我是國立政大學財政系羅光達今天非常高興有這個機會到立法院針對我們今天討論的議題發表個人的一些意見我必須承認我是對於汽車產業不是那麼有深入的直接的了解"},{"start":4983.1,"end":4996.557,"text":"所以說等一下我自己的看法會比較從一個財政學者的一個角度來看這樣子的一個課稅對於產業的影響或就業市場或者說一些稅收上面的一個效率或公平發表自己的一個看法"},{"start":4999.183,"end":5012.891,"text":"我們先來看一下目前我們所面對的環境或我們今天要討論的議題最主要就來自於台美對等關稅上面的直接衝擊我們都知道因為台美對等關稅美國的進口車輛將從17.5%直接降到零關稅甚至連帶相關的美產的汽車零組件也會同步歸零"},{"start":5022.777,"end":5041.892,"text":"那因為這個台灣的汽車產業跟其他國家不太一樣那台灣呢其實是比較主要組裝的這樣子的汽車的產業那受限於我們的市場的規模還有我們這個技術上面的限制呢那部分的核心的一個零組件例如引擎來說的話呢其實高度那個依賴的進口這樣子的一個部分"},{"start":5042.652,"end":5067.125,"text":"其實這個也沒問題因為從國際貿易比較利益的角度來說各個國家針對自己生產的優勢去做這樣子的一個產業上面的發展其實都可以增加雙方上面的經濟的福利不過就在於說其實各國還有存在一些關稅上面的一個課徵因為關稅上面的課徵或是說稅率上面的差異"},{"start":5067.765,"end":5090.133,"text":"就造成我們所謂的相對價格的改變那有相對價格的差異來說的話呢那從這個經濟理論上面來說的話就會造成所謂的一些效率上面的損失那也因為這樣的關係呢這樣零關稅美車或美產的零件是零關稅來說的話呢就會造成日系或歐系我們這個國產車為主的這樣零組件的一個來源來說比較負擔比較高的一個關稅"},{"start":5093.254,"end":5108.313,"text":"所以就會造成給我們台灣的一個組裝這個汽車產業上面來結構性的不公平的一個現象那這個是直接影響那當然對於本土汽車產業的結構性衝擊來說的話呢那當然我們就直接來看一下一些產值上面的影響"},{"start":5108.914,"end":5119.604,"text":"那我稍微的搜尋一下好像中華經濟研究院有針對這樣子的一個台美關稅做一個很快的一個報告那他稍微估計一下因為這樣子的台美關稅來說產生的產業的衝擊大概有40億那"},{"start":5123.948,"end":5127.729,"text":"這樣子產業的關稅來說的話其實對應到我們所謂的一個以我們這個散件組裝我們的CKT這樣為主的這樣子的國產的一個市場來說的話面對還有負擔5%到15%的關稅來說確實成了我剛剛所說的一個相對價格的差異"},{"start":5141.494,"end":5156.393,"text":"那所以造成本土組裝的成本反而會高於這樣子的進口那會打擊到本土的這個國產事業那根據統計來說的話呢整個上下游來說的話呢人口來說的話就業人口高達了30萬那年產值高達5000億"},{"start":5159.156,"end":5167.017,"text":"好 那我們再來看一下到底這樣的課稅有沒有它的理論那確實如果從消費稅課稅理論來說的話對於國內無產量的零儲建來課徵來說的話其實是對中間財貨來課徵那如果對中間財貨課徵來說的話其實會造成我們講的稅上加稅甚至會降低本土產製的附加價值不利於我們出口導向產業的結構"},{"start":5187.361,"end":5192.066,"text":"那不過雖然有剛剛講這個中間財貨課稅稅上加稅的問題不過我們也必須正視幾個如果真的要變成零關稅來說幾個問題第一個那就是財政的一個缺口那也許不裡面的資料更正確"},{"start":5202.278,"end":5220.444,"text":"大概 搜尋一下大概汽車零組件的關稅大概是121到150億那如果整個歸零來說的話呢一定會有財政的缺口所以相關的稅事支出呢可能要做一個正確的一個評估那還有衍生性的一個營業稅的損失那比較經濟學者比較關心的是破度的這種出稅的"},{"start":5221.664,"end":5234.999,"text":"這個保護會優惠來說的話呢其實會對於我們的一個產業的一個技術的升級呢其實是會有一些阻礙的那如果全部都這個無差別的零關稅來說的話呢會造成我們像海外購買一些比較廉價的零組件"},{"start":5236.641,"end":5259.646,"text":"那對於本土上面可能還有一些競爭力的上下游的廠商來說話其實會影響到他們技術的一個提升所以說這種短期的一個救急跟長期上面依賴性來說話我們必須要加以考慮那我個人的潛見是說第一個我們必須真的要正確的可以精準的能夠降稅的一個名單那可能呢"},{"start":5259.986,"end":5274.365,"text":"透過一些各部會的一個確認確實有這樣子的降稅的一個潛力那第二個來說我希望這個降稅不要是直接的一個只有租稅上面的解免可不可以有一些效率上面的一個交換"},{"start":5275.446,"end":5293.427,"text":"希望受到優惠的廠商能夠一定的承諾說我這樣子的降稅的紅利可以用在就業市場或者說技術提升上面的一個提升另外對於這個入業條款上面來說也必須要注意不要變成永久性的租稅的優惠"},{"start":5294.068,"end":5319.394,"text":"那第二個議題三十億的車型天下來說的話個人認為他真的是杯水車薪因為這個對於汽車研發來說的話動輒給非常非常高的金額所以個人認為第一個如果真的要做的話我覺得對於就業市場穩定我還是比較關心的能夠把這樣子的一個金額先用在如果真的有引發一些相關的失業的一個可能性來說的話必須加以做一個就業的輔導"},{"start":5322.515,"end":5344.729,"text":"第二個來說的話我希望透過一個租稅的抵免Tax Credit來說的話能夠提升技術上面的一個可能性長期來說的話希望在異業結盟也許可以透過政府自己的主導給我們的AI的產業我們的科技的產業是不是跟汽車的產業能夠結合這樣子來說的話從一個傳統主專的這樣的產業提升到一個我們講的比較屬於一個更先進的汽車產業"},{"start":5351.713,"end":5379.827,"text":"那是不是調降這個同步非美系來說的話呢確實給我們的17.5%再加上我們的這個貨物稅啊這個奢侈稅啊或營業稅來說的話拉高了最多的價格那從消費者的角度來說的話確實價格比較高那當然給我們消費者福利呢就會比較低一點那跟國際上面來說歐盟10%日本跟韓國來說相對更低那從現實的趨勢上面來說我們似乎呢是比較高一點"},{"start":5380.727,"end":5402.911,"text":"不過還是一樣可以從一個財政學的角度來說的話稅收的損失我們真的要考量一下是不是有相關的替代的財源全面開放其實是一個把一個局部的影響擴大成全面的衝擊這不單單只是消費者得到好處而已整個產業的結構調整的速度是不是能夠配合"},{"start":5403.351,"end":5428.151,"text":"成為我剛剛所說的我們整個汽車產業就業的人口有30萬全面開放之後這樣子的就業人口這樣進一發展是不是能夠承擔我是覺得可能也是要注意如果真的調降之後我也希望給這樣子的降速的紅利不是只有車商能夠承擔而已能夠釋放給這樣子的消費者所以我認為可以適度的調降不過對於高價的車輛我們的奢侈稅來說的話其實還是要克徵"},{"start":5431.013,"end":5448.656,"text":"那最後是不是這個排透稅從這個CC數改成碳排放那其實我是支持的最主要是因為我們現在從租稅公平來說的話如果我們要轉向淨零排碳這個環境上面目的來說的話那我們相關的稅基就必須要反映的一些成本"},{"start":5449.156,"end":5462.023,"text":"那如果可以從這個碳排放改成污染付費來說的話呢其實可以用稅制上面的訊號來引導我們去做這樣子的一個消費不過個人的見解來說的話確實我們的車輛的一個複雜度太多了那我個人認為要新舊並行也許可能在2030或2035我們定個時間點之後之後生產的我們可以用所謂的碳排放去做課徵那之前的也許還可以用目前的CC數"},{"start":5478.971,"end":5501.216,"text":"那不過如果他可以提供相關的一個排碳的證明那我們可以用這樣子的方式主動降稅兼顧公平跟環保那不過這個財政部是一個比較客粹的單位那這種排碳的技術上面來說我個人認為環境部必須要主動的協助財政部來做這樣子更精確的外部成本的一個估算那以上呢是我個人的請見 謝謝好 謝謝羅光達羅教授"},{"start":5509.215,"end":5527.642,"text":"那我們目前登記發言的專家寫者均已發言完畢我們接續要請行政機關來回應相關意見我們會依序請財政部、國發會、交通部、環境部還有經濟部來做相關的回應接下來我們先請財政部請陳市長"},{"start":5539.614,"end":5566.463,"text":"新的次長主席與為的先進的一個委員跟各位專家學者還有女士朋友大家好我是財政部代表陳永勝來這邊跟各位針對於剛剛黃委員賴委員以及專家學者的一些建立跟指教我想用檢二要的部分來跟各位說明整個"},{"start":5567.958,"end":5584.734,"text":"涉及到財政部的部分總共有三個面向第一個就是我們汽車零組件的關稅的部分我想這一個部分我們從同業工會剛剛已經有提到了剛剛與會的一些專家學者也有建議針對於不影響國內的這些產業的一個衝擊針對13個一個品項的一個"},{"start":5591.587,"end":5604.207,"text":"汽車零組件的關稅的部分我想這個部分我們也在上個月的20號也詢問給經濟部就產業的一個主管立場來提出一個稅事支出的一個評估跟報告"},{"start":5605.963,"end":5632.004,"text":"針對第二個部分也就是汽車的整車的關稅的部分我想剛剛也聆聽了那個賴委員的一個指教我想從我們汽車的一個91年進入WTO之後我想整個對於一個承諾從30一直降到目前是17.5的一個關稅整車的關稅率我想這個部分也就是我們目前現行的一個狀況那至於剛剛賴委員所提的"},{"start":5632.484,"end":5660.93,"text":"整個一個會員國WTO的會員國大概目前有166個會員國整體而言進口的產值大概2103億左右整體影響的稅收關稅的部分大概會是在368億左右所以我想這個也是要基於我們國內產業的一個整體的一個影響環境的一個衝擊跟產業的一個衝擊我想這個要涉及到我們跨部會之間的一個審慎的研議跟評估"},{"start":5662.23,"end":5674.845,"text":"再來針對於我們財政部所主管的使用牌照稅的部分我想我們從幾個面向來看第一個使用牌照稅的部分我們也從過去的也就是說一個"},{"start":5676.238,"end":5693.999,"text":"電動車的部分我們也放寬了它可以配合就是說我們地方政府可以去考量它可以去免徵我想這個也是要呼應我們行政院從20到2050年要完成整個淨零派發的一個政策來講我們也"},{"start":5696.161,"end":5718.22,"text":"主動的提出了這個部分也就是說我們的一個一個電動車的部分我們是可以授權基金機關來辦理這個所謂的零牌照的部分那也跟各位五會先進報告截至我們去年來看也就是說到了二月到了今年二月我們整體而言免增的這些"},{"start":5720.157,"end":5739.516,"text":"所謂的一個電重車的一個車輛數來到了大概13萬輛左右整體的一個免收的牌照稅金額大概是在127億左右那我想以所謂的一個碳牌來激增我們的牌照稅的一個激增我想這個部分需要幾個一個面向的考量第一個"},{"start":5740.157,"end":5764.71,"text":"我們的牌照稅的部分我們過去跟現在我們對於燃料車跟所謂的電動車我們是分別按照排氣量跟所謂的馬力數來計正牌照稅我想其他的鄰近的國家譬如說日本、韓國、新加坡也都跟我們的課稅方式是一致的所以整體而言我們現行的課稅的一個牌照稅的一個計正的方式跟國際上的做法是一致的"},{"start":5765.626,"end":5780.511,"text":"第二個部分由現行如果參照剛剛所謂狀態學者以及委員的一個建議我們交通部主管的這些車子的登記的資料我們目前如果假設要以碳排的話我們就需要登錄這個碳排的一個登載我想"},{"start":5781.372,"end":5798.407,"text":"這個會涉及到我們食物上雞跟雞真同仁的一個雞真減便做去做考量所以整體而言我們目前來講我們還是在於要去評估整體而言從經濟部衛福部以及交通部我們整體去看看整個按照所謂的一個"},{"start":5799.451,"end":5818.741,"text":"碳排的方式去激增牌照稅它的一個可行性它的一個成本效益去做考量所以整體而言我們還是在使用牌照稅的部分我們還是在落零整個一個落實整個一個綠能政策來部分來做思考未來還是要跨部會來做審慎的溝通畢竟整個一個牌照稅的部分"},{"start":5819.581,"end":5834.654,"text":"總共目前全國22縣市我們大概牌照稅的部分整個一年的一個牌照稅金額是在688億左右所以整體而言這影響地方的一個財政我想這個還是要充分的跟地方來做一個充分考量以上 謝謝好 我們謝謝陳次長接下來請國發會吳明修吳專委"},{"start":5855.772,"end":5872.813,"text":"主席各位委員各位先進國會以下就今天的討論議題有關這個海關境有關稅以及使用牌照稅方面做簡要重點的說明那依據我國114年今年2月跟美國簽署的這個對美貿易協定如果未來能夠順利的通過的話能將"},{"start":5874.174,"end":5891.172,"text":"確保玫瑰車的安全 耗能污染 噪音等等方面能夠喪失銷售保障消費者的權利那同時經濟部這邊也針對汽車產業爭取了30億的這個專款那將結合上下游的供應鏈朝向智慧化 高質化 以差異化的發展來拓展國際市場那針對"},{"start":5894.435,"end":5915.44,"text":"非美系統的進口車及汽車零組件是否修改這個海關進口稅則免除進口關稅的部分本會尊重產業主管機關經濟部這邊的相關通盤考量那在使用牌照說方面為了實現我國2050年的淨零排放的願景達成119年溫室氣淋排放量較基準年2015年減少28加減2的目標行政團隊也"},{"start":5920.501,"end":5940.1,"text":"透過跨部會溝通協調擬定了這個台灣的總體減量行動計畫那其中在今年的2月26行政院也核定了第三期的運輸部門的溫室清理減量行動方案那以推動運具電動化及無碳化為主要的推動策略之一那包括為了達成119年電動車的"},{"start":5943.996,"end":5967.9,"text":"市售比達到30%那相關的推動措施方面包括在除了在供給端輔導產業技術升級轉型之外那也在需求端持續的提供電動車的誘因機制來提升購置的意願那此外在電動車減免貨物稅優惠方面也在去年的12月30號修正公布延長至119年的12月31日底"},{"start":5971.461,"end":5982.768,"text":"可以電動車免徵使用的牌照稅同時公布授權地方政府可以延長電動車使用牌照稅的免徵期限到119年的12月底"},{"start":5983.786,"end":6000.455,"text":"那至於推動運具電動化真無碳化政府目前是沒有採禁售或禁買這個燃油車的規定那但針對使用牌照稅是否改碳牌的基增本會尊重尊重這個主管機關財政部這邊的通盤考量"},{"start":6001.115,"end":6015.046,"text":"那也就是針對免除進口關稅跟進口零組件關稅區綜合考量消費者的福利跟產業競爭力等等的因素所以本會尊重主管機關經濟部的通販考量另外針對這個"},{"start":6017.228,"end":6017.428,"text":"好 謝謝我們國發會"},{"start":6040.293,"end":6047.376,"text":"對吳專委的這個報告接下來我們請交通部公共運輸及經理師趙敬偉專委主席各位委員各位女士先生各位專家學者大家好"},{"start":6062.574,"end":6085.386,"text":"那今天應邀到財政委員會就這個因應對等關稅及淨零排放是否應修改海關進口稅則免除進口車與相關進口零組件關稅並就使用牌照稅法改以碳排量基層供應會進行相關的報告那以下由交通部來說明交通部的一些處理意見首先針對於討論提綱一是否應修訂海關進口稅則將"},{"start":6087.374,"end":6105.304,"text":"國內無產制的進口零組件關稅降為零以降低本土車廠的製造成本跟提升外交競爭力在本次的台美對等貿易協定當中我方承諾將美製小客車的關稅調降為零中小貨車的部分基於軍工任性的部分降稅後續會有財政財稅主管機關"},{"start":6109.119,"end":6122.492,"text":"財政部跟產業主管機關經濟部共同來修正海關進口稅責所以討論提供一有關於檢討國內無產值的汽車零組件稅率的一節那涉及到國內產業發展那交通部尊重財政部跟產業主管機關經濟部的綜合評估結果"},{"start":6125.394,"end":6141.768,"text":"討論提綱二有關於政府應提出哪些相關的輔導跟預算計畫來延續國內汽車產業的部分那在這次的簽訂的台美對等貿易協定當中經濟部已有相關的一些輔導作為那後續交通部會配合經濟部還有勞動部來共同協助國內車輛產業發展降低產業的衝擊討論提綱三有關於是否應同步調降進口汽車的關稅降低"},{"start":6151.336,"end":6172.614,"text":"國人購買的成本的部分涉及到我國稅基的檢討跟車廂產業發展交通部尊重財政部跟產業主管機關整體研議的結果討論提綱四有關於將使用牌照稅課徵級距改以碳排放量為基深的級距一節這個部分涉及到使用牌照稅的調整交通部也是尊重使用牌照稅法主管機關"},{"start":6174.34,"end":6187.288,"text":"財政部的整體評估結果另外依據立法院通過的氣候變遷因應法第23條的規定無論是進口或是國內的製造的車輛在國內使用它的排放溫室氣體的標準應該要符合"},{"start":6191.511,"end":6211.894,"text":"中央目的稅主管機關也就是環境部鎖定的效能標準那財政部據我們了解這個環境部據我們了解現在也在研定有關於新車排放溫室氣體的標準那後續等到環境部把相關的排放標準定出來之後呢討論提綱4有關於這個課稅積蓄部分的話呢可以來參考"},{"start":6212.934,"end":6222.537,"text":"環境部相關的溫室氣體效能標準部分進行相關的研議以上大概就是針對今天公聽會所立的提綱提供交通部的意見供委員會來做參考 謝謝好 謝謝趙靜雯 趙委員現在請環境部何文淵何副組長"},{"start":6246.482,"end":6262.99,"text":"主席還有各位委員以及先進大家好那環境部就那個議題4的部分來做一個說明第一點是有關於牌照稅的一個激增的一個調整這部分是屬於財政部的一個權責那第二個部分"},{"start":6264.301,"end":6289.684,"text":"有關於這個車輛的一個碳排的部分因為車輛的一個尾氣的一個排放的檢測它沒有辦法去反映實際上行駛產生的一個碳排所以說這現行的一個車輛的一個碳排上的一個計算它是以燃油車的部分就是它所使用的一個燃料再乘以係數去計算而得"},{"start":6290.365,"end":6300.488,"text":"而電力的部分 電車的部分就是以電力的一個排氮係數去乘以它的用電度數而得所以說有關於這個部分的話"},{"start":6302.059,"end":6326.365,"text":"要去知道這個車輛的一個碳排最重要的是要去了解到它的一個用油量還有它的一個用電度數至於有關於用油的部分這跟整個行駛里程跟能耗有關那能耗的部分在現行的一個能源署的部分已經依據能源管理法第15條的規定"},{"start":6327.785,"end":6331.43,"text":"定有車輛容許耗用能源標準以及檢測"},{"start":6333.46,"end":6358.292,"text":"檢查管理辦法對於這車輛的一個能源效率的一個檢測以及合格證明去執行它的一個核發但是對於剛剛所提到的要去掌握整個行駛中的一個里程數跟它的一個使用上確實就如剛剛一些先進所提的這個部分是不易掌握的"},{"start":6359.775,"end":6375.101,"text":"那再來有關於運輸部門的一個檢探的部分剛剛國發會也已經提過就是說行政院他已經核定了我們國家第三期的一個階段管制目標那交通部他也已經依照這樣子管制目標"},{"start":6376.877,"end":6396.548,"text":"去提出了一個運輸部門的一個溫室氣體減量的一個行動方案所以運輸部門的一個減碳的一個推動現在也都在執行中環境部做以上的一個補充說明好謝謝環境部何文元副署長接下來我們請經濟部產發署陳國軒副署長"},{"start":6407.166,"end":6421.643,"text":"主席還有各位委員還有我們的業界監禁還有專家大家好那由經濟部來針對剛才提的一些建議我們來做一個回應跟一個說明"},{"start":6423.024,"end":6447.82,"text":"那目前的話台美的那個貿易協定是還沒有生效不過我們非常清楚整個產業的話它其實升級轉型是刻不容緩而且所有的政策其實是非常多的一個配套也有分短中長期來做一個推動那剛才委員還有專家都有提到"},{"start":6448.34,"end":6462.41,"text":"有關30億的車型天下的一個推動那我這邊再做一個說明那這個案子的推動它其實有一個理念我們是希望整車廠去帶動整個我們國內的"},{"start":6466.132,"end":6486.818,"text":"供應鏈就是車廠的相關的零組件一起來做一個競爭力的一個提升還有開發新的一個車型跟一個車款那我們這樣的話不僅可以來提升在地化的一個比例不過我這邊也要重申我們是以打進國際市場為目標"},{"start":6489.459,"end":6494.402,"text":"所以就是要讓車廠來做一個積極的一個轉型所以才會並列了這樣一個三十億的一個專款來做車廠來做一個轉型那另外的話剛才也有很多"},{"start":6506.387,"end":6524.798,"text":"跟專家有提到其實可以結合有關AI或ICT台灣的優勢科技來跟車廠這邊來做努力所以我們也在2月10號跟業者舉行座談會之後我們這邊經濟部也成立了車輛專責的一個輔導團"},{"start":6527.7,"end":6547.574,"text":"那最重要的話我們就是會來協助業者開發專屬的AI的工具模型來協助業者來做導入那不僅可以提高生產的一個效率之外我們也希望在未來的車型車館可以運用這樣的能力來做一個結合"},{"start":6548.835,"end":6576.497,"text":"當然我們也謝謝立法院在去年已經通過貨物稅相關的一些減徵不管是在車輛的部分太舊換新還有購買2000CC以下的都可以減身貨物稅這一塊的話其實也是對我們整個車市的活絡也帶來了一個正面的一個效益在中長期的一個措施的部分的話"},{"start":6577.358,"end":6602.313,"text":"其實業界還有做很多的一個反應因為如果每一次的一些車子還有零組件都要到國外去做一個驗測的話其實成本是非常高所以目前經濟部我們也積極在爭取相關的預算來完備整個智慧車輛的一個驗測的一個場域的一個相關的一個建立"},{"start":6603.533,"end":6623.602,"text":"來協助業者來縮短測試的時程跟成本那它其實跟車型天下也可以來做一個結合來加速佈局整個國際的市場另外今天關注的有關無產制的民主建的調降的進口關稅的部分"},{"start":6624.302,"end":6642.415,"text":"那目前財政部也有發文給經濟部請我們趕快做稅制支出的相關的一個評估那經濟部這邊已經著手在收集業者的意見還有找智庫來做相關的一個研擬那這一塊的話我們在經濟部會來著手進行"},{"start":6644.637,"end":6669.253,"text":"那有關整個是不是其他的進口汽車的關稅全面要做一個調降那當然他可能是從消費者的一個角度可是我們經濟部也很在乎從產業的角度的一個面向來做一個思考所以我們是認為如果要全面做一個調降這一部分的話應該還是要來做一個全盤而且審慎的一個評估為宜"},{"start":6674.216,"end":6696.878,"text":"那以上是經濟部的一個說明 謝謝好 謝謝我們所有的官員都已經回應完畢那接下來有沒有請各位專家學者要做第二輪發言的 有沒有有的話請舉手 我們可以做第二次的發言有沒有 沒有喔 好"},{"start":6699.455,"end":6723.865,"text":"我想非常感謝今天各位專家學者針對今天的我們公聽會的內容是否應修改海關進口稅則免除進口車與進口汽車零組件相關的關稅並將使用牌照稅改以碳牌飯糧積增這樣的題目提出非常寶貴的意見"},{"start":6725.706,"end":6753.355,"text":"我想為了兼顧國際進口的壓力產業的發展與環境的目標本席是認為我國任何關稅與稅制的改變調整都不僅是被動的回應我們國際的壓力而是應該建立在整個完整的國家產業的戰略之上唯有我們對外開放與對內保護"},{"start":6755.696,"end":6771.241,"text":"減碳轉型與民生負擔間取得平衡才能確保我國的汽車產業能在國際競爭與壓力下可以繼續發展與延續並在淨零排碳的目標下協助汽車產業的轉型與開發的新契機"},{"start":6776.963,"end":6787.633,"text":"那我再次感謝今天各位專家學者與我們行政部門提出的一個相關的寶貴的意見為什麼要問他"},{"start":6823.82,"end":6839.944,"text":"那個我再請教經濟部我們陳次長經濟部是次長嗎那個經濟部稅市支出4月底會不會出來你們現在已經在做了嗎會不會出來是陳副署長已經3月22號已經做出來了"},{"start":6852.629,"end":6863.793,"text":"陳政府經濟部,那請經濟部回答一下,陳副署長是,我想這個很重要,沒有修法在即,我們想盡速的拿到這個數據,好,謝謝"},{"start":6867.346,"end":6889.274,"text":"好 我做一下結論第一 依據立法院職權行使法第58條的規定委員會應於公聽會終結後10日內依出席的各位專家學者及行政部門所提出的正反意見提出公聽會的報告送交本院全體委員局出席者"},{"start":6890.274,"end":6905.294,"text":"所以我們會把今日與會者所有的寶貴的發言意見作為未來我們修法的參考並會編程冊送交本院全體委員會以及今日出席列席提出建言的各位貴賓來參閱"},{"start":6907.136,"end":6929.198,"text":"二 如果各位貴賓還有其他書面意見或相關資料也請盡速提供給我們將併入我們本次的公聽會報告內容再一次感謝各位學者 專家以及政府機關代表的出席謝謝大家那我們今天的公聽會就到這裡為止謝謝大家 散會 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}