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教師"},{"start":2049.36,"end":2052.7200000000003,"text":"新級的一部分"},{"start":2052.7200000000003,"end":2055.36,"text":"如果只補發本薪"},{"start":2055.36,"end":2058.1200000000003,"text":"等於讓恢復聘任的教師"},{"start":2058.1200000000003,"end":2060.4,"text":"平白承受經濟懲罰"},{"start":2060.4,"end":2062.04,"text":"非常的不公平"},{"start":2062.04,"end":2063.04,"text":"因此"},{"start":2063.04,"end":2068.28,"text":"本席代表臺灣民眾黨黨團提出兩項修法"},{"start":2068.28,"end":2071.2400000000002,"text":"第一修正第25條"},{"start":2071.2400000000002,"end":2074.48,"text":"明定未受處分而恢復"},{"start":2074.48,"end":2075.8,"text":"復聘的"},{"start":2075.84,"end":2077.76,"text":"附認的教師"},{"start":2077.76,"end":2078.92,"text":"除本薪外"},{"start":2078.92,"end":2080.6400000000003,"text":"必須一併補發"},{"start":2080.6400000000003,"end":2081.96,"text":"停聘期間的"},{"start":2081.96,"end":2083.7200000000003,"text":"學術研究加急"},{"start":2083.7200000000003,"end":2085.6800000000003,"text":"以及地域加急"},{"start":2085.6800000000003,"end":2086.52,"text":"同時"},{"start":2087.09,"end":2089.17,"text":"增訂過度條款"},{"start":2089.17,"end":2092.65,"text":"讓目前尚未結案的停聘事件"},{"start":2092.65,"end":2094.8900000000003,"text":"也能夠一提適用"},{"start":2094.8900000000003,"end":2096.01,"text":"不讓教師"},{"start":2097,"end":2099,"text":"遣譯受損"},{"start":2099,"end":2101.84,"text":"第二修正第53條"},{"start":2101.84,"end":2104.76,"text":"明定本次修正條文"},{"start":2104.76,"end":2106.92,"text":"自公佈日實行"},{"start":2106.92,"end":2110.08,"text":"跳過等待的一個空窗期"},{"start":2110.08,"end":2112.28,"text":"期時保障教師遣譯"},{"start":2112.28,"end":2114.8,"text":"落實程序正義"},{"start":2114.8,"end":2116.44,"text":"完整保障教師"},{"start":2116.44,"end":2117.76,"text":"和華的遣譯"},{"start":2119.4900000000002,"end":2122.61,"text":"本席身為退休教師"},{"start":2122.61,"end":2125.4900000000002,"text":"深知教師是百年"},{"start":2125.4900000000002,"end":2128.65,"text":"數人的一個責任跟辛勞"},{"start":2128.65,"end":2130.21,"text":"要有幸福的教師"},{"start":2130.21,"end":2132.29,"text":"才會有幸福的學生"},{"start":2132.29,"end":2134.69,"text":"對於提升學校教育"},{"start":2134.69,"end":2136.9700000000003,"text":"還有學生受教品質"},{"start":2136.9700000000003,"end":2139.57,"text":"教師遣譯的提議"},{"start":2139.57,"end":2142.69,"text":"本席都盡表尊重跟支持"},{"start":2142.69,"end":2145.01,"text":"請各位委員教育部"},{"start":2145.01,"end":2146.8900000000003,"text":"共同支持本案"},{"start":2146.8900000000003,"end":2147.3700000000003,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2148.42,"end":2152.1,"text":"謝謝蔡村所委員的提案發言"},{"start":2152.1,"end":2155.26,"text":"那接下來是羅志強委員"},{"start":2155.26,"end":2157.58,"text":"待會依序是葛羅軍委員"},{"start":2157.58,"end":2158.78,"text":"林茜琪委員"},{"start":2158.78,"end":2160.06,"text":"林怡錦委員"},{"start":2160.06,"end":2161.42,"text":"葉元之委員"},{"start":2161.42,"end":2162.7400000000002,"text":"請羅志強委員"},{"start":2165.95,"end":2168.27,"text":"主席大家早安"},{"start":2168.89,"end":2172.29,"text":"台灣這幾年不只是面臨少子化"},{"start":2172.29,"end":2174.37,"text":"事實上我們的教育現場"},{"start":2174.37,"end":2176.49,"text":"也出現了教師慌"},{"start":2176.49,"end":2177.97,"text":"那承載教育"},{"start":2177.97,"end":2178.85,"text":"親子溝通"},{"start":2178.85,"end":2181.37,"text":"跟培育下世代的重責大人"},{"start":2181.37,"end":2182.77,"text":"都在教師身上"},{"start":2182.77,"end":2185.13,"text":"事實上我最近"},{"start":2185.13,"end":2186.97,"text":"就是有開始一一拜訪"},{"start":2186.97,"end":2188.5699999999997,"text":"我選區裡的學校"},{"start":2189.24,"end":2191.56,"text":"每一個校長"},{"start":2191.56,"end":2193.16,"text":"跟我講的第一件事情"},{"start":2193.16,"end":2195.24,"text":"都是教師慌"},{"start":2195.24,"end":2198.4399999999996,"text":"那這一次我們來討論有關於"},{"start":2198.4399999999996,"end":2201.16,"text":"教師待遇條例的部分"},{"start":2201.16,"end":2202.8799999999997,"text":"那本席提出的草案"},{"start":2202.8799999999997,"end":2206,"text":"就是要回覆跟維護"},{"start":2206,"end":2209.4399999999996,"text":"我們復聘教師的行之權益"},{"start":2209.4399999999996,"end":2213.12,"text":"那教師待遇條例第二條明定"},{"start":2213.12,"end":2215.56,"text":"教師是待遇分本薪"},{"start":2215.56,"end":2217.24,"text":"加給跟獎金"},{"start":2217.2799999999997,"end":2219.3599999999997,"text":"那薪給是指本薪"},{"start":2219.3599999999997,"end":2222.3599999999997,"text":"與加給合計之給予"},{"start":2222.3599999999997,"end":2225.3999999999996,"text":"那且於該法中第六條定有明定"},{"start":2225.3999999999996,"end":2227.3199999999997,"text":"教師之薪給"},{"start":2227.3199999999997,"end":2230.2,"text":"以月計之並按月給付"},{"start":2230.2,"end":2232.52,"text":"因此可以得知教師之薪給"},{"start":2232.52,"end":2234.3999999999996,"text":"因為經常性的薪資"},{"start":2234.3999999999996,"end":2236,"text":"為待遇的一部分"},{"start":2236,"end":2239.16,"text":"與執行職務之津貼有所差別"},{"start":2239.16,"end":2241.64,"text":"但是現在的教師法25條"},{"start":2241.64,"end":2244.3199999999997,"text":"針對配合接受調查而暫"},{"start":2244.3199999999997,"end":2246.72,"text":"受暫時停聘的教師"},{"start":2246.72,"end":2249.7999999999997,"text":"調查後未受解聘或停聘處分"},{"start":2249.7999999999997,"end":2251.8799999999997,"text":"並回覆聘任者"},{"start":2251.8799999999997,"end":2254.04,"text":"代表因案暫停"},{"start":2254.73,"end":2258.17,"text":"停聘的教師並無不適任的情形"},{"start":2258.17,"end":2260.01,"text":"如果只補發本薪"},{"start":2260.01,"end":2263.69,"text":"而非經常性的薪給"},{"start":2263.69,"end":2266.41,"text":"那在校園濫述的情況惡意"},{"start":2266.41,"end":2268.33,"text":"日益惡化情況之下"},{"start":2268.33,"end":2271.25,"text":"那對副職教師來講的話"},{"start":2271.25,"end":2273.05,"text":"其實是很不公平的"},{"start":2273.05,"end":2275.37,"text":"所以雖然停聘期間"},{"start":2275.37,"end":2276.97,"text":"教師沒有教學的事實"},{"start":2276.97,"end":2280.05,"text":"但是並非教師拒絕或怠惰"},{"start":2280.05,"end":2282.53,"text":"教學的產生的"},{"start":2282.53,"end":2284.61,"text":"所以責任不應該由教師負擔"},{"start":2284.65,"end":2286.9700000000003,"text":"因此我們認為現行法規"},{"start":2286.9700000000003,"end":2288.4500000000003,"text":"顯然有違公平正義"},{"start":2288.4500000000003,"end":2290.57,"text":"希望透過這次修法"},{"start":2290.57,"end":2293.61,"text":"能夠真正保障教師合理的行之權益"},{"start":2293.61,"end":2294.4100000000003,"text":"以上謝謝"},{"start":2295.33,"end":2299.45,"text":"好 謝謝羅志強委員的提案說明"},{"start":2299.45,"end":2302.05,"text":"接下來有請葛如鈞委員"},{"start":2302.05,"end":2303.5299999999997,"text":"下一位林茜琪委員"},{"start":2310.35,"end":2310.91,"text":"主席"},{"start":2311.42,"end":2313.38,"text":"各位在場的立委同仁"},{"start":2313.86,"end":2316.06,"text":"夜襲的官員以及媒體朋友大家早安"},{"start":2316.06,"end":2318.2200000000003,"text":"首先感謝召委我們今天安排"},{"start":2318.2200000000003,"end":2321.3,"text":"這個教師法第25條的巡達以及審查"},{"start":2321.82,"end":2323.3,"text":"那本席過去也是教師"},{"start":2323.3,"end":2325.26,"text":"那現在也持續的"},{"start":2325.26,"end":2328.3,"text":"希望能夠跟教育界有更多的連結"},{"start":2328.54,"end":2331.38,"text":"那本席提出這個教師法第25條修正案"},{"start":2331.38,"end":2335.06,"text":"一方面是在處理教師在停聘期間的待遇問題"},{"start":2335.34,"end":2336.2200000000003,"text":"但另外一方面"},{"start":2336.2200000000003,"end":2339.2200000000003,"text":"它更關係到我們如何用一個更公平的制度"},{"start":2339.4599999999996,"end":2342.1,"text":"留住願意投入教育現場的人才"},{"start":2342.58,"end":2346.14,"text":"那根據教育部在2025年開學前的統計"},{"start":2346.14,"end":2349.8999999999996,"text":"全國3303所公立國中小"},{"start":2349.8999999999996,"end":2353.9399999999996,"text":"一度有高達1429名的代理教師缺額"},{"start":2353.9399999999996,"end":2355.2999999999997,"text":"即使到了8月底"},{"start":2355.2999999999997,"end":2358.1,"text":"仍然還有412名的缺額沒有補齊"},{"start":2358.3399999999997,"end":2362.18,"text":"甚至有學校公開徵選教師超過40次"},{"start":2362.18,"end":2364.1,"text":"直到開學了還找不到人"},{"start":2364.3399999999997,"end":2367.06,"text":"而且缺額的問題還不只出現在偏鄉"},{"start":2367.2599999999998,"end":2370.62,"text":"連台北高雄桃園這些都會區"},{"start":2370.62,"end":2373.22,"text":"都一樣面臨招募困難的情況"},{"start":2373.22,"end":2374.98,"text":"這代表我們的教育體制"},{"start":2374.98,"end":2377.46,"text":"必須要充滿的檢討改善"},{"start":2377.46,"end":2379.9,"text":"首先要做的就是如何挽留"},{"start":2379.9,"end":2381.98,"text":"第一線教師的師資"},{"start":2381.98,"end":2383.5,"text":"還有教育的人才"},{"start":2383.5,"end":2386.02,"text":"那目前一線教師所感受到的"},{"start":2386.02,"end":2389.22,"text":"必須要講是越來越不友善的教學環境"},{"start":2389.54,"end":2391.74,"text":"所有的一線教師不僅承擔了"},{"start":2391.74,"end":2394.1,"text":"高壓高風險的工作條件"},{"start":2394.3399999999997,"end":2397.2999999999997,"text":"結果在制度上竟然還得不到應有的保障"},{"start":2397.54,"end":2400.54,"text":"現行的教師待遇條例第二條"},{"start":2400.54,"end":2401.94,"text":"就明文規定"},{"start":2401.94,"end":2406.8199999999997,"text":"教師待遇是由本薪加給以及獎金所組成"},{"start":2406.8199999999997,"end":2409.14,"text":"同法第四條也明定"},{"start":2409.14,"end":2413.7799999999997,"text":"教師的薪給本來就是本薪加上加給"},{"start":2413.7799999999997,"end":2416.02,"text":"而且因按月給付"},{"start":2416.02,"end":2418.06,"text":"換句話說對於教師來講"},{"start":2418.06,"end":2420.66,"text":"加給不是時有時無的獎勵"},{"start":2420.7,"end":2424.18,"text":"而是教師們法定薪資待遇的一部分"},{"start":2424.18,"end":2426.7799999999997,"text":"那現行教師法第25條規定"},{"start":2426.7799999999997,"end":2429.66,"text":"教師如果因為調查而被停聘"},{"start":2429.66,"end":2432.06,"text":"最後證明沒有被解聘"},{"start":2432.06,"end":2436.74,"text":"沒有被終局停聘而回復聘認"},{"start":2436.74,"end":2442.42,"text":"目前只能補發停聘期間的本薪或者年工薪"},{"start":2442.42,"end":2444.98,"text":"教師待遇條例第19條"},{"start":2444.98,"end":2446.8599999999997,"text":"也是採用相同的做法"},{"start":2446.8599999999997,"end":2449.66,"text":"只補發了本薪沒有把加給給納入"},{"start":2449.8599999999997,"end":2452.8599999999997,"text":"這就產生一個明顯不公平的現象"},{"start":2452.8599999999997,"end":2456.3399999999997,"text":"明明最後證明了教師是沒有問題的"},{"start":2456.3399999999997,"end":2458.14,"text":"不是可規則的一方"},{"start":2458.14,"end":2462.62,"text":"卻還是要由教師自行承受停聘薪期間的"},{"start":2462.62,"end":2464.8999999999996,"text":"部分薪資的損失"},{"start":2464.8999999999996,"end":2469.46,"text":"這對於學校與教師之間的風險"},{"start":2469.46,"end":2473.22,"text":"還有損失明顯的不平等"},{"start":2473.22,"end":2477.14,"text":"本薪要強調今天有12個不分黨派的提案版本"},{"start":2477.2599999999998,"end":2480.3399999999997,"text":"顯見是為教師要來爭取應有的薪資待遇"},{"start":2480.3399999999997,"end":2481.8599999999997,"text":"是跨黨派的共識"},{"start":2481.8599999999997,"end":2486.3799999999997,"text":"我們要求的就是如果最後證明教師是被停聘"},{"start":2486.3799999999997,"end":2491.22,"text":"證明教師被解聘沒有被終局停聘"},{"start":2491.22,"end":2495.8599999999997,"text":"那麼制度就應該要完整的去回復這位教師的薪資權益"},{"start":2495.8599999999997,"end":2497.62,"text":"因為一個法治的社會"},{"start":2497.62,"end":2499.74,"text":"不能讓無可規則的人"},{"start":2499.74,"end":2501.54,"text":"在程序走完以後"},{"start":2501.54,"end":2504.14,"text":"還要繼續為制度的成本買單"},{"start":2504.14,"end":2506.18,"text":"我想最後本席要再次強調"},{"start":2506.22,"end":2508.74,"text":"今天審查教師法第25條的修法"},{"start":2508.74,"end":2511.62,"text":"不是只為了老師個人權益的問題"},{"start":2511.62,"end":2515.4199999999996,"text":"整體來說還是要為了維持整個教育體系的穩定"},{"start":2515.4199999999996,"end":2518.46,"text":"今天年輕人為什麼不願意進入教育的現場"},{"start":2518.46,"end":2519.7799999999997,"text":"除了工作的壓力"},{"start":2519.7799999999997,"end":2521.66,"text":"行政負擔很重以外"},{"start":2521.66,"end":2523.18,"text":"還有一個很重要的原因"},{"start":2523.18,"end":2528.54,"text":"就這份工作到底有沒有辦法提供給他們人性的制度"},{"start":2528.54,"end":2529.8199999999997,"text":"友善的保障"},{"start":2529.8199999999997,"end":2533.4199999999996,"text":"如果一個制度連最基本的待遇回復都做不到"},{"start":2533.46,"end":2538.14,"text":"連最基本的符合法律條文的待遇回復都做不到的話"},{"start":2538.14,"end":2541.78,"text":"那我們要如何能夠邀請優秀的人才"},{"start":2541.78,"end":2543.1,"text":"長期投入教職"},{"start":2543.1,"end":2545.5,"text":"我們本來就應該要用更合理的制度"},{"start":2545.5,"end":2548.82,"text":"讓真正願意教學願意陪伴孩子成長的教師"},{"start":2548.82,"end":2551.78,"text":"感受到國家制度真正的友善的地方"},{"start":2551.78,"end":2553.02,"text":"跟他們站在一起"},{"start":2553.02,"end":2554.94,"text":"讓制度也有正義"},{"start":2554.94,"end":2556.86,"text":"讓教師也有尊嚴"},{"start":2556.86,"end":2558.9,"text":"讓學校也留作助人"},{"start":2558.9,"end":2561.7000000000003,"text":"最後真正受益的還是我們的孩子跟下一代"},{"start":2561.74,"end":2564.7,"text":"這是本席提出教師法第25條修正草案"},{"start":2564.7,"end":2565.8199999999997,"text":"最重要的原因"},{"start":2565.8199999999997,"end":2566.7799999999997,"text":"懇請大家一起支持"},{"start":2566.7799999999997,"end":2567.18,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2568.2,"end":2570.2799999999997,"text":"謝謝葛如君委員"},{"start":2570.2799999999997,"end":2573.7599999999998,"text":"接下來有請林憲奇委員做提案說明"},{"start":2573.7599999999998,"end":2575.16,"text":"下一位林一錦委員"},{"start":2585.36,"end":2586.6000000000004,"text":"主席"},{"start":2586.6000000000004,"end":2587.32,"text":"媒體朋友"},{"start":2587.32,"end":2588.8,"text":"還有我們輔會同仁"},{"start":2588.8,"end":2590.4,"text":"大家早安大家好"},{"start":2590.4,"end":2593.96,"text":"本席過去在大學擔任專任的教師"},{"start":2593.96,"end":2599.2000000000003,"text":"那麼在中小學的教育現場也多所接觸"},{"start":2599.2000000000003,"end":2600.92,"text":"在這個工作上"},{"start":2600.92,"end":2601.96,"text":"立法院的工作上"},{"start":2601.96,"end":2604.1200000000003,"text":"也有許多的教師"},{"start":2604.1200000000003,"end":2607.6400000000003,"text":"還有學校反映目前教學的狀況"},{"start":2607.6400000000003,"end":2612.6400000000003,"text":"所以我們在維持整個教育現場的穩定的情況下"},{"start":2612.64,"end":2618.16,"text":"本席在今天針對教師法的第25條來提出修正"},{"start":2618.16,"end":2620.2,"text":"主要的目的是在對於"},{"start":2620.2,"end":2621.08,"text":"現行的制度"},{"start":2621.08,"end":2623.04,"text":"對於教師停聘期間"},{"start":2623.04,"end":2625.56,"text":"權益保障不足的問題"},{"start":2625.56,"end":2628.6,"text":"然後回復制度應有的公平性"},{"start":2628.6,"end":2629.7999999999997,"text":"那麼現行的規定"},{"start":2629.7999999999997,"end":2634.04,"text":"教師在接受調查而遭停聘的期間"},{"start":2634.04,"end":2638.16,"text":"可能不發給待遇或僅發給伴述"},{"start":2638.16,"end":2641.64,"text":"然後當調查結果確認未受解聘"},{"start":2641.64,"end":2645.92,"text":"或者是中局停聘的處分的時候"},{"start":2645.92,"end":2647.7999999999997,"text":"來恢復聘認"},{"start":2647.7999999999997,"end":2650.72,"text":"可是只有補發本薪"},{"start":2650.72,"end":2653.2799999999997,"text":"但是教師的薪資結構不是只有本薪"},{"start":2653.2799999999997,"end":2655.08,"text":"我想這個大家都很清楚"},{"start":2655.08,"end":2658.8799999999997,"text":"還包括學術研究加給跟職務的加給"},{"start":2658.8799999999997,"end":2661.64,"text":"然後也會進一步來影響考核獎金"},{"start":2661.64,"end":2662.8399999999997,"text":"年終獎金"},{"start":2662.8399999999997,"end":2666.92,"text":"及兼任行政職務的休假等相關的權益"},{"start":2666.92,"end":2668.12,"text":"那在過程當中"},{"start":2668.12,"end":2670.92,"text":"可能都沒有辦法被考量進去"},{"start":2670.92,"end":2671.84,"text":"所以換言之"},{"start":2671.84,"end":2675.6800000000003,"text":"即使教師最終沒有受到任何的實體的處分"},{"start":2675.6800000000003,"end":2678.84,"text":"那我們教師仍然必須要自己承擔"},{"start":2678.84,"end":2683.48,"text":"停聘期間所產生的各項薪資與附隨權益的損失"},{"start":2683.48,"end":2684.6800000000003,"text":"那這樣子的制度安排"},{"start":2684.6800000000003,"end":2690.12,"text":"顯然權益在這個平衡的原則下是不符的"},{"start":2690.12,"end":2693.56,"text":"所以教師在停聘期間沒有辦法提供勞務"},{"start":2693.56,"end":2695.6,"text":"不可歸咎於教師本人"},{"start":2695.6,"end":2697.64,"text":"那依民法的一個相關規定"},{"start":2697.64,"end":2700.8,"text":"在不可歸咎於受僱人的情形下"},{"start":2700.8,"end":2704.1200000000003,"text":"人應該保障其報酬請求權"},{"start":2704.1200000000003,"end":2707.4,"text":"因此在確認教師無需受處分"},{"start":2707.4,"end":2709.8,"text":"並恢復聘任之後呢"},{"start":2709.8,"end":2714.96,"text":"那理應要回復至未停聘前之完整權益的一個狀態"},{"start":2714.96,"end":2718.6800000000003,"text":"那本次的修法來明定教師於停聘後"},{"start":2718.6800000000003,"end":2721.04,"text":"經確認未受處分者"},{"start":2721.04,"end":2724.04,"text":"除了應該要補發本薪以外"},{"start":2724.04,"end":2727.8,"text":"而且要補發加給並恢復考核獎金"},{"start":2727.8,"end":2728.88,"text":"年終獎金"},{"start":2728.96,"end":2731.88,"text":"以及相關休假等權益事項"},{"start":2731.88,"end":2735.6400000000003,"text":"使整體的一個勞動條件得以完整回復"},{"start":2735.6400000000003,"end":2737.28,"text":"那麼本案的一個提案呢"},{"start":2737.28,"end":2740.44,"text":"最主要是針對來回應制度性風險"},{"start":2740.44,"end":2744.04,"text":"不應該由個人來承擔基本原則"},{"start":2744.04,"end":2746.56,"text":"所以敬請各位委員來支持本案"},{"start":2746.56,"end":2747.88,"text":"以上謝謝"},{"start":2747.88,"end":2750.84,"text":"好謝謝林茜琪委員"},{"start":2750.84,"end":2754.6,"text":"接下來我們請林一錦委員做提案說明"},{"start":2754.6,"end":2756.4,"text":"下一位葉源直委員"},{"start":2756.4,"end":2757.4,"text":"林一錦委員請"},{"start":2763.35,"end":2764.15,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":2765.08,"end":2766.2,"text":"各位同仁"},{"start":2766.2,"end":2770.2,"text":"我想大家今天感謝昭偉"},{"start":2770.2,"end":2773.48,"text":"來安排這個教師法的這個修正"},{"start":2773.48,"end":2777.68,"text":"那本席這次提出教師法這個25條修正草案"},{"start":2777.68,"end":2780.04,"text":"主要源自於讓很多老師"},{"start":2780.04,"end":2783.72,"text":"教苦連天的校園的濫述現象"},{"start":2783.72,"end":2787.2,"text":"那從前年解聘辦法修正後"},{"start":2787.2,"end":2788.24,"text":"在一年間"},{"start":2788.24,"end":2790.84,"text":"校事會議的這個投訴案件"},{"start":2790.84,"end":2792.52,"text":"高達一千八百"},{"start":2792.52,"end":2794.64,"text":"一千三百七十二件"},{"start":2794.68,"end":2797.92,"text":"有超過八成的案件有受理"},{"start":2797.92,"end":2799.8399999999997,"text":"那根據調查資料"},{"start":2799.8399999999997,"end":2804.7999999999997,"text":"當時已經完成調查的七百六十九件的當中"},{"start":2804.7999999999997,"end":2807.48,"text":"不成立的案件有三百八十二件"},{"start":2807.48,"end":2810.2,"text":"佔比四十九點七趴"},{"start":2810.2,"end":2814.16,"text":"那達到停解聘的只有三點三趴"},{"start":2814.16,"end":2816.8399999999997,"text":"那雖然校事會議的主要用意是"},{"start":2816.8399999999997,"end":2820.48,"text":"要處理不適任老師的停解聘的事宜"},{"start":2820.48,"end":2824.44,"text":"但卻演變成這個小案大半的現象"},{"start":2824.44,"end":2827.2400000000002,"text":"那教會部發現這個濫述現象後"},{"start":2827.2400000000002,"end":2831,"text":"有著手修改校事會議的相關規定"},{"start":2831,"end":2833.88,"text":"那教師的這個停聘接受調查"},{"start":2833.88,"end":2840.12,"text":"那事後如果這個結果判定責任不歸屬教師"},{"start":2840.12,"end":2843.2400000000002,"text":"那也應該有所謂的冤案補償"},{"start":2843.2400000000002,"end":2847.12,"text":"那因此本席提出這個教師法第25條的修正案"},{"start":2847.12,"end":2852.04,"text":"就是對於教師停聘事由消滅或調查後"},{"start":2852.04,"end":2855.68,"text":"為受解聘或終局停聘的處分"},{"start":2855.68,"end":2857.6,"text":"並回覆聘認者"},{"start":2857.6,"end":2860.72,"text":"除了現行規定補發本薪以外"},{"start":2860.72,"end":2863.2,"text":"也應該要補發加給"},{"start":2863.2,"end":2868.12,"text":"教師的待遇分為本薪加給及獎金"},{"start":2868.12,"end":2874.68,"text":"那加給又分成職務加給學術研究加給地域加給"},{"start":2874.68,"end":2877.32,"text":"那所以如果老師被停聘接受調查"},{"start":2877.32,"end":2880.12,"text":"那調查結果責任不歸屬老師的時候"},{"start":2880.8399999999997,"end":2884.7599999999998,"text":"沒有給老師補發這段時間的這個加給"},{"start":2884.7599999999998,"end":2887.3599999999997,"text":"那等於就是補發了半薪而已"},{"start":2887.3599999999997,"end":2891.52,"text":"那加上停職是屬於非自願的停職工作"},{"start":2891.52,"end":2895.44,"text":"所以經調查後如果沒有受不利的處分"},{"start":2895.44,"end":2898.3599999999997,"text":"本來就應該要補發教師"},{"start":2898.3599999999997,"end":2901.2,"text":"原來他應該得到了薪資"},{"start":2901.2,"end":2905.48,"text":"所以本席認為教育部應該還要和老師"},{"start":2905.48,"end":2910.52,"text":"跟學校的團體充分來討論這個補發的範圍"},{"start":2910.52,"end":2916.6,"text":"我想最低的限度一定是要把學術研究加給補發給老師"},{"start":2916.6,"end":2922.64,"text":"因為學術研究加給是老師教學研究工作本來就有的加給"},{"start":2922.64,"end":2925.2400000000002,"text":"這屬於固定薪資的一部分"},{"start":2925.2400000000002,"end":2926.88,"text":"所以我們逐條討論的時候"},{"start":2926.88,"end":2932.16,"text":"我就還要再請教育部再來做詳細的評估跟說明"},{"start":2932.16,"end":2934,"text":"那可以做到怎樣的程度"},{"start":2934.04,"end":2936.44,"text":"那當然最大的重點就是互斃"},{"start":2936.44,"end":2942,"text":"要讓受到冤屈的老師們得到合理的補償制度"},{"start":2942,"end":2943.6,"text":"以上敬請支持"},{"start":2943.6,"end":2944.8,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":2944.8,"end":2947.64,"text":"好謝謝林怡菁委員"},{"start":2947.64,"end":2951.56,"text":"接下來請葉源芝委員做提案說明"},{"start":2951.56,"end":2953.32,"text":"最後一位張雅玲委員"},{"start":2953.32,"end":2954.36,"text":"葉源芝委員請"},{"start":2958.7799999999997,"end":2961.74,"text":"大家都知道現在教師荒非常嚴重"},{"start":2961.74,"end":2964.58,"text":"不是說代理老師非常難找"},{"start":2964.58,"end":2968.4199999999996,"text":"有的學校的四十幾招五十幾招都找不到代理老師"},{"start":2968.4199999999996,"end":2971.9399999999996,"text":"那現在狀況是正式老師考上了都不報到"},{"start":2971.9399999999996,"end":2973.5,"text":"那所以到底為什麼會面臨這個"},{"start":2978.27,"end":2979.51,"text":"喂喂喂"},{"start":2979.51,"end":2980.67,"text":"為什麼面臨這個狀況"},{"start":2980.67,"end":2982.83,"text":"其實有非常多的研究指出"},{"start":2982.83,"end":2986.75,"text":"就是因為現在老師的教學環境非常不友善"},{"start":2986.75,"end":2991.27,"text":"然後第一個老師被迫做非常多跟教學無關的行政工作"},{"start":2991.27,"end":2994.63,"text":"所以大家一直在呼籲要做行政減量"},{"start":2994.63,"end":3000.23,"text":"但是依然各部會各個公家機關還是會要求老師"},{"start":3000.23,"end":3002.39,"text":"做非常多跟教學無關的宣導"},{"start":3002.39,"end":3004.79,"text":"然後還包括要辦非常多的公文"},{"start":3004.79,"end":3006.75,"text":"然後做各式各樣的評鑑"},{"start":3006.79,"end":3011.71,"text":"所以讓他們產生了非常大的跟教學無關的壓力"},{"start":3011.71,"end":3015.11,"text":"第二個就是濫述的情況"},{"start":3015.11,"end":3018.19,"text":"之前因為校次會議引爆很大的風波"},{"start":3018.19,"end":3021.11,"text":"其實大家都發現校次會議的召開"},{"start":3021.11,"end":3025.51,"text":"其實很多時候老師最後都是被不耐的"},{"start":3025.51,"end":3028.31,"text":"而且並沒有人家指控的這樣"},{"start":3028.31,"end":3031.47,"text":"可是他卻進入了漫長的調查期"},{"start":3031.47,"end":3033.15,"text":"大概最長可以調查四個月"},{"start":3033.96,"end":3037.96,"text":"然後最新的一項調查指出親子殿下做的"},{"start":3037.96,"end":3042.28,"text":"他說現在近六成的教師五年內想要離職"},{"start":3042.28,"end":3046.08,"text":"更可怕的是這些教師他超過六成"},{"start":3046.08,"end":3049.12,"text":"是不支持他的下一代投入老師的行業"},{"start":3049.12,"end":3051.56,"text":"而且他也不希望學生繼續當老師"},{"start":3051.56,"end":3059.48,"text":"換言之這個教師的環境現在是處於一種極具惡化的這個螺旋當中"},{"start":3059.48,"end":3064.48,"text":"所以希望教育部各個各方我們一起來改善"},{"start":3065.85,"end":3069.25,"text":"好讓老師覺得做老師是值得被尊重"},{"start":3071.98,"end":3074.98,"text":"然後還有一項調查指出"},{"start":3074.98,"end":3077.98,"text":"他說95.8%的老師"},{"start":3078.91,"end":3081.91,"text":"他即使覺得自己是秉持著教育專業"},{"start":3081.91,"end":3086.91,"text":"但是還是擔心被誤解被隨便的控訴"},{"start":3086.91,"end":3092.91,"text":"然後認為校園現在存在一種多做多做少做少錯的氛圍"},{"start":3098.91,"end":3100.91,"text":"其實受害的是學生"},{"start":3104.48,"end":3106.48,"text":"被"},{"start":3106.99,"end":3108.99,"text":"所以其實真正受害的是學生"},{"start":3108.99,"end":3112.99,"text":"因為學生們也沒有辦法得到一個好的教學"},{"start":3112.99,"end":3115.99,"text":"所以這個問題是急需解決的"},{"start":3115.99,"end":3118.99,"text":"那我們今天所討論的教師法第25條"},{"start":3118.99,"end":3122.99,"text":"他只是只是還老師一個最起碼的公道而已"},{"start":3122.99,"end":3126.99,"text":"因為如果這些老師他被他被隨便投訴"},{"start":3126.99,"end":3130.99,"text":"投訴之後進入調查區然後中間被停聘最後還他清白"},{"start":3130.99,"end":3133.99,"text":"其實他在過程當中已經受到很大的煎熬了"},{"start":3133.99,"end":3136.99,"text":"然後即便是最後恢復他的"},{"start":3136.99,"end":3140.99,"text":"就是說他沒有這樣的問題要恢復他的聘認"},{"start":3140.99,"end":3144.99,"text":"可是過程當中他所受的傷害已經難以彌補"},{"start":3144.99,"end":3149.99,"text":"那如果你還把他這段期間應該領的加給把扣掉的話"},{"start":3149.99,"end":3151.99,"text":"我覺得是非常非常不公道的"},{"start":3151.99,"end":3153.99,"text":"所以我們今天這個法律"},{"start":3153.99,"end":3157.99,"text":"就是我們今天的修法就是希望能夠把加給一起"},{"start":3157.99,"end":3161.99,"text":"因為現行狀況之下是只回復本薪和年工薪"},{"start":3161.99,"end":3162.99,"text":"沒有加給"},{"start":3162.99,"end":3165.99,"text":"那我們的修法是希望能夠把加給一併回復"},{"start":3165.99,"end":3169.99,"text":"除了是讓老師得到的應有的待遇之外"},{"start":3169.99,"end":3172.99,"text":"更是對老師有一個最起碼的尊重"},{"start":3172.99,"end":3174.99,"text":"那所以呢希望一起來努力"},{"start":3174.99,"end":3177.99,"text":"然後除了這個之外還希望大家一起共同把"},{"start":3177.99,"end":3180.99,"text":"老師所面臨的不友善的環境一併把它改善謝謝"},{"start":3180.99,"end":3183.99,"text":"好謝謝葉元朱委員"},{"start":3183.99,"end":3187.99,"text":"最後一位有請張雅令委員做提案說明"},{"start":3194.58,"end":3195.58,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":3195.58,"end":3198.58,"text":"我想大家今天應該都引用了蠻多2026年"},{"start":3198.58,"end":3201.58,"text":"親子天下的最新的教師幸福感的調查"},{"start":3201.58,"end":3204.58,"text":"那這一份調查裡面呢其實的資料非常"},{"start":3204.58,"end":3205.58,"text":"收集的資料非常的完整喔"},{"start":3205.58,"end":3207.58,"text":"那我也希望教育部可以仔細的來看看"},{"start":3207.58,"end":3210.58,"text":"我們的教師面對了一個怎麼樣艱辛的一份工作"},{"start":3210.58,"end":3213.58,"text":"因為他們的幸福感只有五成"},{"start":3213.58,"end":3215.58,"text":"一份只有幸福感五成的工作"},{"start":3215.58,"end":3217.58,"text":"卻要面臨到非常多的濫俗"},{"start":3217.58,"end":3220.58,"text":"或者是很多管教上面的包含"},{"start":3220.58,"end":3223.58,"text":"最近大家有看到一些對於老師的一些批評等等的"},{"start":3223.58,"end":3225.58,"text":"我想這個是我們今天大家"},{"start":3225.58,"end":3227.58,"text":"應該要一起來關注的事情"},{"start":3227.58,"end":3228.58,"text":"那今天我特別來講一下"},{"start":3228.58,"end":3230.58,"text":"針對於教師法第25條的修正"},{"start":3230.58,"end":3232.58,"text":"那我認為這幾件事情的核心"},{"start":3232.58,"end":3235.58,"text":"修法的核心就是追求一個公平而已"},{"start":3236.78,"end":3239.78,"text":"我們的制度現在是一個老師如果被停聘"},{"start":3239.78,"end":3242.78,"text":"但是最後調查結果是沒有問題"},{"start":3242.78,"end":3245.78,"text":"也沒有被解聘也沒有被終局停聘的時候"},{"start":3245.78,"end":3247.78,"text":"那他可以回來任教"},{"start":3247.78,"end":3251.78,"text":"那會補給他這個停薪停聘期間的一個本薪"},{"start":3251.78,"end":3254.78,"text":"可是卻沒有補給他學術加級"},{"start":3254.78,"end":3256.78,"text":"我認為這樣是非常的不合理的"},{"start":3256.78,"end":3258.78,"text":"對於許多沒有兼任行政職務的"},{"start":3258.78,"end":3261.78,"text":"那也沒有在偏遠地區服務的老師來說"},{"start":3261.78,"end":3264.78,"text":"他的固定薪資就是本薪加上學術加級"},{"start":3264.78,"end":3266.78,"text":"那是不是額外的獎勵"},{"start":3266.78,"end":3268.78,"text":"這是他日常穩定的收入"},{"start":3268.78,"end":3272.78,"text":"結果他現在調查結果也沒有做錯事情"},{"start":3272.78,"end":3274.78,"text":"好不容易證明了清白"},{"start":3274.78,"end":3277.78,"text":"我必須說這真的是蠻艱辛的得到了清白之後"},{"start":3277.78,"end":3279.78,"text":"卻只有補給他一半的薪資"},{"start":3279.78,"end":3281.78,"text":"另外一半直接消失"},{"start":3281.78,"end":3284.78,"text":"那我認為這就是一個制度上的扣薪"},{"start":3284.78,"end":3288.78,"text":"而且是對於一個沒有做錯事情的人來扣薪"},{"start":3289.43,"end":3290.43,"text":"那從法律上來說"},{"start":3290.43,"end":3293.43,"text":"民法第487條也講得非常清楚"},{"start":3293.43,"end":3295.43,"text":"如果不是受過人的責任"},{"start":3295.43,"end":3299.43,"text":"沒有提供勞務也不代表他不能請求報酬"},{"start":3299.43,"end":3301.43,"text":"老師在停薪期間沒有上課"},{"start":3301.43,"end":3303.43,"text":"不是他自己造成的"},{"start":3303.43,"end":3305.43,"text":"他也沒有補上課的義務"},{"start":3305.43,"end":3307.43,"text":"那為什麼報酬要打折"},{"start":3307.43,"end":3310.43,"text":"所以這次還是回到我在講的"},{"start":3310.43,"end":3312.43,"text":"就是我追求的就是一個公平而已"},{"start":3312.43,"end":3316.43,"text":"不只本薪連同學術加級要一併的補發"},{"start":3317.11,"end":3320.11,"text":"我們不能夠讓一個已經證明自己沒有問題的老師"},{"start":3320.11,"end":3322.11,"text":"還要獨自承受損失"},{"start":3322.11,"end":3323.11,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":3324.26,"end":3326.26,"text":"謝謝張雅玲委員"},{"start":3326.26,"end":3330.26,"text":"那我們所有的提案說明到這邊告一個段落"},{"start":3330.26,"end":3332.26,"text":"那這一次的會議呢"},{"start":3332.26,"end":3334.26,"text":"採一併報告 綜合詢答"},{"start":3334.26,"end":3336.26,"text":"現在我們進行報告"},{"start":3336.26,"end":3339.26,"text":"請教育部政醫藥部長報告"},{"start":3339.26,"end":3341.26,"text":"報告時間15分鐘"},{"start":3341.26,"end":3342.26,"text":"請"},{"start":3349.53,"end":3352.53,"text":"主席 各位委員 大家早安 大家好"},{"start":3352.53,"end":3355.53,"text":"本人今日應邀列席貴文會"},{"start":3355.53,"end":3357.53,"text":"就本部主管教育全國教育"},{"start":3357.53,"end":3359.53,"text":"青年發展等業務"},{"start":3359.53,"end":3362.53,"text":"以及委員所提案修正教師法第245條"},{"start":3363.06,"end":3366.06,"text":"發給教師暫時停聘期間時大意提出報告"},{"start":3366.06,"end":3369.06,"text":"進行各位委員會議指教"},{"start":3369.06,"end":3372.06,"text":"以下請就 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tart":3649.13,"end":3652.13,"text":"配合國家重點產業領域人才需求"},{"start":3652.13,"end":3654.13,"text":"鼓勵大專校院增加"},{"start":3655.3,"end":3658.3,"text":"擴增資通訊半導體AI"},{"start":3659.27,"end":3662.27,"text":"機械科領域相關系所招生名額"},{"start":3662.27,"end":3665.27,"text":"此外在115跟116學人度"},{"start":3665.27,"end":3669.27,"text":"也感謝我們所有委員的一個支持"},{"start":3669.27,"end":3671.27,"text":"通過特別預算200億"},{"start":3671.27,"end":3673.27,"text":"來協助大學的一個發展"},{"start":3673.27,"end":3677.27,"text":"國際人才以及跟企業共培人才"},{"start":3678.02,"end":3682.02,"text":"此外也補助博士生海外留學美人"},{"start":3682.76,"end":3685.76,"text":"美人每年最高100萬及延攬優秀"},{"start":3685.76,"end":3688.76,"text":"境外博士生美人每月4萬元"},{"start":3690.55,"end":3694.55,"text":"另外為因應生成式AI帶動產業的轉型"},{"start":3694.55,"end":3699.55,"text":"成立台灣大專校院人工智慧學程聯盟"},{"start":3699.55,"end":3703.55,"text":"TICA整合全國AI教育資源推動"},{"start":3704.37,"end":3706.37,"text":"跨校合作教學以學文採認"},{"start":3706.37,"end":3710.37,"text":"培育具專業素養與競爭力之AI人才"},{"start":3710.37,"end":3712.37,"text":"此外推動教育平權"},{"start":3714.92,"end":3715.92,"text":"為輔助"},{"start":3716.29,"end":3718.29,"text":"弱勢及特殊經營學生"},{"start":3718.29,"end":3720.29,"text":"我們也在14年起開始"},{"start":3720.29,"end":3722.29,"text":"事辦大專校院青涵學生"},{"start":3722.29,"end":3727.29,"text":"當他的一個成績達到全班或者全系的30%"},{"start":3727.29,"end":3732.29,"text":"他就可以每個月有獎學金8000元到1萬元的"},{"start":3732.29,"end":3736.29,"text":"來協助他們在困境中經濟學業"},{"start":3736.29,"end":3738.29,"text":"第五 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停留三年"},{"start":5065.94,"end":5067.94,"text":"三年以上有多少"},{"start":5067.94,"end":5069.94,"text":"同意委員有許多的現象"},{"start":5069.94,"end":5071.94,"text":"我們怎麼樣提供更友善的校園環境"},{"start":5071.94,"end":5073.94,"text":"怎麼友善"},{"start":5073.94,"end":5075.94,"text":"部長 怎麼友善"},{"start":5075.94,"end":5077.94,"text":"我們一直在努力 就像委員也支持"},{"start":5077.94,"end":5079.94,"text":"學生輔導法"},{"start":5079.94,"end":5081.94,"text":"也通過了嘛 對吧"},{"start":5081.94,"end":5083.94,"text":"來來來 你不搶還好"},{"start":5083.94,"end":5085.94,"text":"學生輔導法先談這個問題"},{"start":5085.94,"end":5087.94,"text":"那個彭署長也在我後面"},{"start":5087.94,"end":5089.94,"text":"我真的要特別問一下"},{"start":5089.94,"end":5091.94,"text":"你上次告訴我的有關於"},{"start":5091.94,"end":5093.94,"text":"新的編制準則"},{"start":5093.94,"end":5095.94,"text":"我們好不容易過去了"},{"start":5095.94,"end":5097.94,"text":"編制準則你告訴我你已經公告了"},{"start":5097.94,"end":5099.94,"text":"有嗎 我點進去看"},{"start":5099.94,"end":5101.94,"text":"112年你還是用舊的法"},{"start":5101.94,"end":5103.94,"text":"再來做這樣的事情"},{"start":5103.94,"end":5105.94,"text":"包委員 我們那時候跟您報告的是"},{"start":5105.94,"end":5107.94,"text":"現行的相關做法"},{"start":5107.94,"end":5109.94,"text":"都已經到我們的"},{"start":5109.94,"end":5111.94,"text":"公告的嗎"},{"start":5111.94,"end":5113.94,"text":"我們的計畫內"},{"start":5113.94,"end":5115.94,"text":"會增加600位"},{"start":5115.94,"end":5117.94,"text":"報告下來去看"},{"start":5117.94,"end":5119.94,"text":"報告出來去看"},{"start":5119.94,"end":5121.94,"text":"192位專政人員"},{"start":5121.94,"end":5123.94,"text":"這個都跟委員報告過了"},{"start":5123.94,"end":5125.94,"text":"不是 你告訴我 你的網站上面"},{"start":5125.94,"end":5127.94,"text":"你的新的編制準則"},{"start":5127.94,"end":5129.94,"text":"你還是照舊法來往下面看"},{"start":5129.94,"end":5131.94,"text":"更不要講說我們好不容易進去了"},{"start":5131.94,"end":5133.94,"text":"部長 你這個部分裡面"},{"start":5133.94,"end":5135.94,"text":"還包括我們的老師"},{"start":5135.94,"end":5137.94,"text":"很多的老師就特別提到了"},{"start":5137.94,"end":5139.94,"text":"他們已經的人力"},{"start":5139.94,"end":5141.94,"text":"非常的缺乏"},{"start":5141.94,"end":5143.94,"text":"也很多老師特別提到了"},{"start":5143.94,"end":5147.94,"text":"像一般老師一樣可以按節次來去做這樣一個增補"},{"start":5147.94,"end":5149.94,"text":"那這些都是一個很大的問題啊"},{"start":5149.94,"end":5151.94,"text":"我們下面的這個樣子的一個部分"},{"start":5151.94,"end":5154.94,"text":"好 我先先回到剛剛我還真的還沒有講完"},{"start":5154.94,"end":5157.94,"text":"所以部長你跟我說我支持學生輔導法"},{"start":5157.94,"end":5160.94,"text":"是 但是很多的配套你完全沒有update跟上來"},{"start":5160.94,"end":5163.94,"text":"所以根據剛剛我們所提到那麼多的教師的"},{"start":5163.94,"end":5165.94,"text":"覺得校園不友善的問題"},{"start":5165.94,"end":5167.94,"text":"你真正的對策到底在哪裡"},{"start":5169.32,"end":5171.32,"text":"對策在哪裡嘛 根據這個"},{"start":5171.32,"end":5173.32,"text":"我想譬如說失失的不穩定"},{"start":5173.32,"end":5176.32,"text":"我們看到了STEM或者偏鄉離島"},{"start":5176.32,"end":5180.32,"text":"我們開始增加了一個原住民的這個專班"},{"start":5180.32,"end":5183.32,"text":"我們對STEM這個我肯定你的努力"},{"start":5183.32,"end":5185.32,"text":"但是你這些問題還是沒有不足以"},{"start":5185.32,"end":5188.32,"text":"我們對偏鄉的代課老師他沒有辦法"},{"start":5188.32,"end":5190.32,"text":"因為他對教育是有熱忱的"},{"start":5190.32,"end":5193.32,"text":"所以我們改變了用線上來上課"},{"start":5193.32,"end":5195.32,"text":"部長我在跟你加基同壓講"},{"start":5195.32,"end":5198.32,"text":"這個部分我剛才說我肯定你的做法"},{"start":5198.32,"end":5202.32,"text":"但是對於線上不是偏鄉的這些老師的人力不穩"},{"start":5202.32,"end":5205.32,"text":"校園衝突 你這怎麼辦"},{"start":5205.32,"end":5206.32,"text":"我們感謝委員的支持"},{"start":5206.32,"end":5207.32,"text":"我們現在事實上"},{"start":5207.32,"end":5209.32,"text":"所以你都認為你都做好了嗎"},{"start":5209.32,"end":5210.32,"text":"不是"},{"start":5210.32,"end":5213.32,"text":"我想有一些東西教育這個東西"},{"start":5213.32,"end":5215.32,"text":"不是一夜之間就能夠看到效果"},{"start":5215.32,"end":5218.32,"text":"我當然知道教育不是一夜之間"},{"start":5218.32,"end":5220.32,"text":"但是教育的很多的問題"},{"start":5220.32,"end":5224.32,"text":"我們到目前為止同樣討論的都是這些"},{"start":5224.32,"end":5225.32,"text":"表示很多的做法"},{"start":5225.32,"end":5228.32,"text":"目前為止還是沒有辦法解決"},{"start":5228.32,"end":5230.32,"text":"這是我所提出來的"},{"start":5230.32,"end":5231.32,"text":"部長因為時間有限"},{"start":5231.32,"end":5233.32,"text":"我請你把這樣的部分"},{"start":5233.32,"end":5235.32,"text":"給我一份報告來告訴我"},{"start":5235.32,"end":5238.32,"text":"你針對我所提出的這四大項"},{"start":5238.32,"end":5241.32,"text":"你做的策略到底是什麼可以嗎"},{"start":5241.32,"end":5242.32,"text":"因為我們時間沒有辦法在這個地方"},{"start":5242.32,"end":5244.32,"text":"對不起給我一分鐘的時間"},{"start":5244.32,"end":5247.32,"text":"我還是要問到這個有關於這個我們"},{"start":5247.32,"end":5249.32,"text":"上次已經我們的召委在這個地方"},{"start":5249.32,"end":5251.32,"text":"已經排定了這樣子的一個問題"},{"start":5251.32,"end":5254.32,"text":"但是很顯然沒有辦法解決"},{"start":5254.32,"end":5255.32,"text":"原因很簡單"},{"start":5255.32,"end":5257.32,"text":"你知道目前為止來說"},{"start":5257.32,"end":5259.32,"text":"我們往下看"},{"start":5259.32,"end":5260.32,"text":"這是一個學生"},{"start":5260.32,"end":5262.32,"text":"在我們上次討論完之後"},{"start":5262.32,"end":5264.32,"text":"他親手寫信給我的"},{"start":5264.32,"end":5265.32,"text":"學生給我寫的"},{"start":5265.32,"end":5267.32,"text":"他就是我把他的名字弄掉"},{"start":5267.32,"end":5269.32,"text":"他是說告訴我們"},{"start":5269.32,"end":5271.32,"text":"目前他們這些的剝削一直存在"},{"start":5271.32,"end":5273.32,"text":"然後你們告訴大家"},{"start":5273.32,"end":5277.32,"text":"查到的這個所謂違反的這個違規沒有"},{"start":5277.32,"end":5279.32,"text":"所以讓這些學生覺得非常的憤怒"},{"start":5279.32,"end":5282.32,"text":"他們寫信告訴我剝削一直存在"},{"start":5282.32,"end":5284.32,"text":"因為你們教育部的規定"},{"start":5284.32,"end":5285.32,"text":"讓很多事情合法化"},{"start":5285.32,"end":5289.32,"text":"舉例來說他們現在非常痛苦的是421"},{"start":5289.32,"end":5292.32,"text":"四天實習兩天讀書一天休息"},{"start":5292.32,"end":5295.32,"text":"那時候教育部本來非常好的"},{"start":5295.32,"end":5297.32,"text":"也可以告訴我們就是說"},{"start":5297.32,"end":5299.32,"text":"你有一個公約有一個合約"},{"start":5299.32,"end":5302.32,"text":"就是說你用付月薪的方法"},{"start":5302.32,"end":5304.32,"text":"教育部本來本意很良善"},{"start":5304.32,"end":5306.32,"text":"但是因為付月薪的方法"},{"start":5306.32,"end":5308.32,"text":"這些很多的地方就是讓他"},{"start":5308.32,"end":5311.32,"text":"一個禮拜可以工作40小時"},{"start":5311.32,"end":5313.32,"text":"可是他只有4天可以工作"},{"start":5313.32,"end":5316.32,"text":"所以要求他們一天工作10小時"},{"start":5316.32,"end":5319.32,"text":"一天工作10小時"},{"start":5319.32,"end":5321.32,"text":"而且他們工作10小時的時候"},{"start":5321.32,"end":5324.32,"text":"有很多你們當初我們被揪舉的"},{"start":5324.32,"end":5326.32,"text":"新南向國際專班"},{"start":5326.32,"end":5328.32,"text":"因為你們特別要求特別保護"},{"start":5328.32,"end":5330.32,"text":"所以他們可以收10星"},{"start":5330.32,"end":5332.32,"text":"而且每天不能超過8小時"},{"start":5332.32,"end":5334.32,"text":"反而是這些喬生"},{"start":5334.32,"end":5336.32,"text":"他們每天被要求工作超過"},{"start":5336.32,"end":5339.32,"text":"一天超過10小時的這樣子的血汗"},{"start":5339.32,"end":5341.32,"text":"所以他們告訴大家"},{"start":5341.32,"end":5342.32,"text":"他們真的是很累了"},{"start":5342.32,"end":5344.32,"text":"他們想來這邊學習"},{"start":5344.32,"end":5347.32,"text":"但是他們被要求的沒有辦法"},{"start":5347.32,"end":5350.32,"text":"所以好像就是一個來這邊留學"},{"start":5350.32,"end":5352.32,"text":"可是要被當作勞工來做看待"},{"start":5352.32,"end":5354.32,"text":"那這樣子的一個合法化"},{"start":5354.32,"end":5355.32,"text":"你怎麼來做這個解決"},{"start":5355.32,"end":5356.32,"text":"這是存在的事實"},{"start":5356.32,"end":5358.32,"text":"不要告訴我們你們超乎違法"},{"start":5358.32,"end":5359.32,"text":"沒有這種事"},{"start":5359.32,"end":5361.32,"text":"超乎違法就不會有一群學生來這邊"},{"start":5361.32,"end":5362.32,"text":"我想我的心情"},{"start":5362.32,"end":5364.32,"text":"這案例的控訴"},{"start":5364.32,"end":5365.32,"text":"這不是案例喔"},{"start":5365.32,"end":5367.32,"text":"我的心情跟委員是一樣的"},{"start":5367.32,"end":5369.32,"text":"我一定會嚴格來查"},{"start":5369.32,"end":5370.32,"text":"只要查到"},{"start":5370.32,"end":5372.32,"text":"事實上跟委員報告"},{"start":5372.32,"end":5375.32,"text":"我在去年跟32所的"},{"start":5375.32,"end":5378.32,"text":"技高學校的所有的董事"},{"start":5378.32,"end":5383.32,"text":"校長我直接感謝我們彭署長的邀請"},{"start":5383.32,"end":5385.32,"text":"在南棟我特別舉了"},{"start":5385.32,"end":5387.32,"text":"因為我不希望台灣是一個"},{"start":5387.32,"end":5388.32,"text":"是"},{"start":5388.32,"end":5389.32,"text":"是"},{"start":5389.32,"end":5390.32,"text":"是一個國學天堂"},{"start":5390.32,"end":5392.32,"text":"我希望台灣有更多的國際派"},{"start":5392.32,"end":5394.32,"text":"是以後培養出更多的靈魂"},{"start":5394.32,"end":5395.32,"text":"但是你現在的政策"},{"start":5395.32,"end":5397.32,"text":"我相信這是一個理想"},{"start":5397.32,"end":5399.32,"text":"因為這個東西來說的話"},{"start":5399.32,"end":5401.32,"text":"我們現在也開始不定期的"},{"start":5401.32,"end":5402.32,"text":"對不要預告"},{"start":5402.32,"end":5403.32,"text":"不預告"},{"start":5403.32,"end":5404.32,"text":"不定期的去做"},{"start":5404.32,"end":5405.32,"text":"不定期的查證"},{"start":5405.32,"end":5406.32,"text":"讓有事情你才去做"},{"start":5406.32,"end":5407.32,"text":"我們也去查到了一個"},{"start":5407.32,"end":5410.32,"text":"即將要這一個退場的學校"},{"start":5410.32,"end":5412.32,"text":"就是說我要談的是說"},{"start":5412.32,"end":5415.32,"text":"許多的東西我們逐步來做"},{"start":5415.32,"end":5416.32,"text":"我的心情是跟委員一樣的"},{"start":5416.32,"end":5417.32,"text":"部長"},{"start":5417.32,"end":5419.32,"text":"我們從2016年當立委到這邊"},{"start":5419.32,"end":5421.32,"text":"所有的部長在質詢台上面"},{"start":5421.32,"end":5423.32,"text":"都告訴我教育不是一處之間"},{"start":5423.32,"end":5424.32,"text":"就可以完成"},{"start":5424.32,"end":5425.32,"text":"我們都逐步來做"},{"start":5425.32,"end":5427.32,"text":"問到2026了"},{"start":5427.32,"end":5428.32,"text":"十年了"},{"start":5428.32,"end":5429.32,"text":"還在逐步來做"},{"start":5429.32,"end":5431.32,"text":"你會知道讓我們所有的老師"},{"start":5431.32,"end":5433.32,"text":"還有讓我們很多的學生"},{"start":5433.32,"end":5435.32,"text":"都非常的覺得希望教育部"},{"start":5435.32,"end":5437.32,"text":"能夠主動做一些的事情"},{"start":5437.32,"end":5438.32,"text":"我跟委員報告對這技高的學生"},{"start":5438.32,"end":5439.32,"text":"我怎麼說"},{"start":5439.32,"end":5440.32,"text":"我說如果你們沒有辦法"},{"start":5440.32,"end":5442.32,"text":"按照法令的規定來辦"},{"start":5442.32,"end":5444.32,"text":"我會把這個班關掉"},{"start":5444.32,"end":5447.32,"text":"第二個如果你學校連在地的本國生"},{"start":5447.32,"end":5449.32,"text":"都沒有認真地把它辦學"},{"start":5449.32,"end":5451.32,"text":"你們學校我也會把你關掉"},{"start":5451.32,"end":5452.32,"text":"是"},{"start":5452.32,"end":5454.32,"text":"所以說我現在已經呈現出"},{"start":5454.32,"end":5455.32,"text":"這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":5455.32,"end":5457.32,"text":"421請不要讓這些學生"},{"start":5457.32,"end":5459.32,"text":"永遠要透過跟立法委員"},{"start":5459.32,"end":5460.32,"text":"這樣子的告知"},{"start":5460.32,"end":5462.32,"text":"然後才有辦法發現這些事實"},{"start":5462.32,"end":5463.32,"text":"我只能告訴你"},{"start":5463.32,"end":5465.32,"text":"每一次我們做出任何的事情"},{"start":5465.32,"end":5466.32,"text":"然後你們去查都說"},{"start":5466.32,"end":5467.32,"text":"查無違法"},{"start":5467.32,"end":5470.32,"text":"這種的狀況真的會讓很多"},{"start":5470.32,"end":5471.32,"text":"受害的學生"},{"start":5471.32,"end":5472.32,"text":"我們現在有不定期的"},{"start":5472.32,"end":5475.32,"text":"因為我的技藥專門委員"},{"start":5475.32,"end":5477.32,"text":"都親自下去現場去看"},{"start":5477.32,"end":5479.32,"text":"我想這個我們來努力"},{"start":5479.32,"end":5481.32,"text":"但也許一時間沒有辦法"},{"start":5481.32,"end":5482.32,"text":"立即改善"},{"start":5482.32,"end":5483.32,"text":"但是這是我們"},{"start":5483.32,"end":5486.32,"text":"我現在最後只是祈求部長"},{"start":5486.32,"end":5488.32,"text":"你真的也是教育出身的"},{"start":5488.32,"end":5490.32,"text":"老師的環境越來越惡劣"},{"start":5490.32,"end":5492.32,"text":"你不能否認有更多更多的老師"},{"start":5492.32,"end":5494.32,"text":"不願意投注在這個地方"},{"start":5494.32,"end":5495.32,"text":"也更多的老師"},{"start":5495.32,"end":5497.32,"text":"很希望他的熱情能夠被"},{"start":5497.32,"end":5499.32,"text":"我們的教育部可以接觸"},{"start":5499.32,"end":5500.32,"text":"然後呢我們有很多的學生"},{"start":5500.32,"end":5501.32,"text":"在這個過程裡面"},{"start":5501.32,"end":5504.32,"text":"橋外學生也很想來台灣學習"},{"start":5504.32,"end":5505.32,"text":"不要因為我們的法治"},{"start":5505.32,"end":5506.32,"text":"我們的一些制度"},{"start":5506.32,"end":5508.32,"text":"還有我們一些想攤小便宜"},{"start":5508.32,"end":5510.32,"text":"因為找移工找學工"},{"start":5510.32,"end":5512.32,"text":"遠比找那些所謂的移工"},{"start":5512.32,"end":5513.32,"text":"來得更淺盛前"},{"start":5513.32,"end":5515.32,"text":"我不希望我們的台灣教育"},{"start":5515.32,"end":5516.32,"text":"變成是如此"},{"start":5516.32,"end":5518.32,"text":"這個是你跟我共同期望"},{"start":5518.32,"end":5519.32,"text":"你現在握有權力"},{"start":5519.32,"end":5520.32,"text":"你應該更知道"},{"start":5520.32,"end":5522.32,"text":"如何能夠來做這樣的一個部分"},{"start":5522.32,"end":5523.32,"text":"留在這裡的原因"},{"start":5523.32,"end":5524.32,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":5524.32,"end":5525.32,"text":"你要主要是"},{"start":5525.32,"end":5526.32,"text":"你就好好幫我們把這些"},{"start":5526.32,"end":5528.32,"text":"你的問題把它解決"},{"start":5528.32,"end":5529.32,"text":"不要讓我看到"},{"start":5529.32,"end":5531.32,"text":"我看到我大腿比較麻"},{"start":5531.32,"end":5533.32,"text":"就是你有沒有看錯"},{"start":5533.32,"end":5534.32,"text":"所以你要常常"},{"start":5534.32,"end":5536.32,"text":"我現在的眼睛會越來越多"},{"start":5536.32,"end":5537.32,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":5538.29,"end":5539.29,"text":"我們期待"},{"start":5539.29,"end":5540.29,"text":"我們一起來當你的眼線"},{"start":5540.29,"end":5541.29,"text":"好不好"},{"start":5541.29,"end":5542.29,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":5543.29,"end":5545.29,"text":"好 謝謝柯志恩委員"},{"start":5545.29,"end":5547.29,"text":"請部長回座"},{"start":5547.29,"end":5549.29,"text":"接下來有請羅廷瑋委員質詢"},{"start":5557.6,"end":5558.6,"text":"好 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校園濫數疑慮"},{"start":5743.83,"end":5745.83,"text":"沈著教師"},{"start":5745.83,"end":5747.83,"text":"非自願停止工作"},{"start":5747.83,"end":5749.83,"text":"以及現在近年"},{"start":5749.83,"end":5751.83,"text":"物價大幅成長下"},{"start":5751.83,"end":5753.83,"text":"上南充分的維持"},{"start":5753.83,"end":5755.83,"text":"基本生活跟家庭照顧"},{"start":5755.83,"end":5757.83,"text":"的所需卻有"},{"start":5757.83,"end":5759.83,"text":"在檢討精進之處"},{"start":5759.83,"end":5761.83,"text":"這是你的報告所寫的"},{"start":5761.83,"end":5763.83,"text":"所以我的版本很簡單"},{"start":5763.83,"end":5765.83,"text":"線型條文說的補發期停聘"},{"start":5765.83,"end":5767.83,"text":"期間全數的本薪"},{"start":5769.88,"end":5771.88,"text":"還有我還多了五項喔"},{"start":5771.88,"end":5773.88,"text":"考核獎金 年終獎金"},{"start":5773.88,"end":5775.88,"text":"職務加給 學術加給"},{"start":5775.88,"end":5777.88,"text":"地域加給 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"text":"國家競爭力"},{"start":7407.59,"end":7409.59,"text":"我想,當然最基本的"},{"start":7409.59,"end":7411.59,"text":"因為台灣沒有天然資源,我們靠的"},{"start":7411.59,"end":7413.59,"text":"就是人才,所以每一個"},{"start":7413.59,"end":7415.59,"text":"教育階段,把每一個"},{"start":7415.59,"end":7417.59,"text":"小孩子,每一位學生,把他"},{"start":7417.59,"end":7419.59,"text":"教好,我想這是最直接的"},{"start":7419.59,"end":7421.59,"text":"一個提升國家"},{"start":7421.59,"end":7423.59,"text":"競爭力最直接的一個方式"},{"start":7423.59,"end":7425.59,"text":"那剛剛部長還要講,要調心"},{"start":7425.59,"end":7427.59,"text":"然後"},{"start":7427.59,"end":7429.59,"text":"有種種的"},{"start":7429.59,"end":7431.59,"text":"一些措施,但是我要告訴部長"},{"start":7431.59,"end":7433.59,"text":"不是你挑了"},{"start":7433.59,"end":7435.59,"text":"一千兩千,那個職務加級"},{"start":7435.59,"end":7437.59,"text":"挑了一千兩千,就能夠改變"},{"start":7437.59,"end":7439.59,"text":"現在這個"},{"start":7439.59,"end":7441.59,"text":"那個校園氣候不佳的一個狀況"},{"start":7441.59,"end":7443.59,"text":"我想影響教師的一個"},{"start":7443.59,"end":7445.59,"text":"工作滿意度,影響的因素"},{"start":7445.59,"end":7447.59,"text":"當然很多,有時候他"},{"start":7447.59,"end":7449.59,"text":"並不是不喜歡"},{"start":7449.59,"end":7451.59,"text":"但是他因為產業有"},{"start":7451.59,"end":7453.59,"text":"更大的吸引力量,包含我們"},{"start":7453.59,"end":7455.59,"text":"師師的培育機制也改變"},{"start":7455.59,"end":7457.59,"text":"過去"},{"start":7457.57,"end":7459.57,"text":"我跟委員的年代是"},{"start":7460.09,"end":7462.09,"text":"師大,張師大,高師大"},{"start":7462.09,"end":7464.09,"text":"他們需要多少老師"},{"start":7464.09,"end":7466.09,"text":"培養多少老師,是公會的"},{"start":7466.09,"end":7468.09,"text":"但是現在是儲備制"},{"start":7468.09,"end":7470.09,"text":"所以變成有許多"},{"start":7470.09,"end":7472.09,"text":"年輕人的生涯,他當然"},{"start":7472.09,"end":7474.09,"text":"原來他想要當老師,生涯有可能"},{"start":7474.09,"end":7476.09,"text":"改變,對,這個狀況"},{"start":7476.09,"end":7478.09,"text":"我了解,但是現在"},{"start":7478.09,"end":7480.09,"text":"問題是,老師在學校"},{"start":7480.09,"end":7482.09,"text":"為什麼不快樂"},{"start":7482.09,"end":7484.09,"text":"就是因為教師的尊嚴"},{"start":7484.09,"end":7486.09,"text":"很低,然後教育政策"},{"start":7486.09,"end":7488.09,"text":"常常改來改去"},{"start":7488.09,"end":7490.09,"text":"還有就是最嚴重的就是"},{"start":7490.09,"end":7492.09,"text":"我們學生的素質不好"},{"start":7492.09,"end":7494.09,"text":"這些都是"},{"start":7494.09,"end":7496.09,"text":"對老師都是一個"},{"start":7496.09,"end":7498.09,"text":"壓力"},{"start":7498.09,"end":7500.09,"text":"然後我還要再跟部長"},{"start":7500.09,"end":7502.09,"text":"請教"},{"start":7502.09,"end":7504.09,"text":"就是有學校校長"},{"start":7504.09,"end":7506.09,"text":"有跟我提過"},{"start":7506.09,"end":7508.09,"text":"在高中的時候"},{"start":7508.09,"end":7510.09,"text":"早期就是有教官"},{"start":7510.09,"end":7512.09,"text":"那現在的教官已經退出"},{"start":7512.09,"end":7514.09,"text":"校園了,所以在"},{"start":7514.09,"end":7516.09,"text":"管理學生的這個部分"},{"start":7516.09,"end":7518.09,"text":"可以給學校老師"},{"start":7518.09,"end":7520.09,"text":"產生閒政的一個壓力"},{"start":7520.09,"end":7522.09,"text":"那當初這些教官"},{"start":7522.09,"end":7524.09,"text":"要退出校園的時候,有沒有做配套"},{"start":7524.09,"end":7526.09,"text":"沒有啊,現在所有的"},{"start":7526.09,"end":7528.09,"text":"工作都留給"},{"start":7528.09,"end":7530.09,"text":"現任的老師"},{"start":7530.09,"end":7532.09,"text":"增加這個壓力,增加閒政"},{"start":7532.09,"end":7534.09,"text":"工作,那我請教一下"},{"start":7534.09,"end":7536.09,"text":"現在的那個校長"},{"start":7536.09,"end":7538.09,"text":"每一次到下學期的時候"},{"start":7538.09,"end":7540.09,"text":"要請閒政人員來"},{"start":7540.09,"end":7542.09,"text":"擔任閒政工作的時候,都找不到"},{"start":7542.09,"end":7544.09,"text":"那這就是一個問題"},{"start":7544.09,"end":7546.09,"text":"就是給老師很大的一個"},{"start":7546.09,"end":7548.09,"text":"壓力嘛,那我們要如何"},{"start":7548.09,"end":7550.09,"text":"的來"},{"start":7550.09,"end":7552.09,"text":"退出校園呢,那如何讓"},{"start":7552.09,"end":7554.09,"text":"這個老師跟閒政人員"},{"start":7554.09,"end":7556.09,"text":"能夠分開來"},{"start":7556.09,"end":7558.09,"text":"校園裡面有教官過是一事"},{"start":7558.09,"end":7560.09,"text":"來自金正時期"},{"start":7560.09,"end":7562.09,"text":"當然台灣隨著民主化的一個過程"},{"start":7562.09,"end":7564.09,"text":"裡面,對對對,那現在"},{"start":7564.09,"end":7566.09,"text":"我要問的部長是"},{"start":7566.09,"end":7568.09,"text":"你的配套"},{"start":7568.09,"end":7570.09,"text":"有校安人員"},{"start":7570.09,"end":7572.09,"text":"的一個補助,那另外國中"},{"start":7572.09,"end":7574.09,"text":"原來沒有教官"},{"start":7574.09,"end":7576.09,"text":"他是管理組長嘛"},{"start":7576.09,"end":7578.09,"text":"在那個協務處的管理組長嘛"},{"start":7578.09,"end":7580.09,"text":"當然每一個家,每一個小孩都是"},{"start":7580.09,"end":7582.09,"text":"家庭的寶,也是台灣未來的希望"},{"start":7582.09,"end":7584.09,"text":"所以我們在"},{"start":7584.09,"end":7586.09,"text":"給小孩子有一個更好的一個發展"},{"start":7586.09,"end":7588.09,"text":"的一個成長環境"},{"start":7588.09,"end":7590.09,"text":"我們在國中也去年"},{"start":7590.09,"end":7592.09,"text":"也補了六百多位的"},{"start":7592.09,"end":7594.09,"text":"這個校安人力,去協助"},{"start":7594.09,"end":7596.09,"text":"這一個國中"},{"start":7596.09,"end":7598.09,"text":"在許多的一些"},{"start":7598.09,"end":7600.09,"text":"校園的一些,這個更"},{"start":7600.09,"end":7602.09,"text":"安全,更友善的環境上的一個"},{"start":7602.09,"end":7604.09,"text":"營造"},{"start":7604.09,"end":7606.09,"text":"很好,很好"},{"start":7606.09,"end":7608.09,"text":"那我們也希望"},{"start":7608.09,"end":7610.09,"text":"不要讓老師兼太多的"},{"start":7610.09,"end":7612.09,"text":"行政工作,讓老師"},{"start":7612.09,"end":7614.09,"text":"回歸在教學的部分"},{"start":7614.09,"end":7616.09,"text":"讓他們能夠提升到"},{"start":7616.09,"end":7618.09,"text":"教學品質,然後"},{"start":7618.09,"end":7620.09,"text":"老師回到教學的"},{"start":7620.09,"end":7622.09,"text":"本業,這是對的"},{"start":7622.09,"end":7624.09,"text":"但是因為我們國民教育法裡面"},{"start":7624.09,"end":7626.09,"text":"開宗明義,國民教育就"},{"start":7626.09,"end":7628.09,"text":"培養德治體群美,五一金融"},{"start":7628.09,"end":7630.09,"text":"發展,所以老師不是"},{"start":7630.09,"end":7632.09,"text":"只有,特別在小學生"},{"start":7632.09,"end":7634.09,"text":"這一個,他不是只有"},{"start":7634.09,"end":7636.09,"text":"學科的教學,沒有錯,沒有錯"},{"start":7636.09,"end":7638.09,"text":"情緒,人格,態度"},{"start":7638.09,"end":7640.09,"text":"生活,習慣的養成"},{"start":7640.09,"end":7642.09,"text":"這個不可否認的,當然"},{"start":7642.09,"end":7644.09,"text":"是要前面的一個教育"},{"start":7644.09,"end":7646.09,"text":"這個沒有錯,但是呢"},{"start":7646.09,"end":7648.09,"text":"我們就是說"},{"start":7648.22,"end":7650.22,"text":"最後能夠行政"},{"start":7650.22,"end":7652.22,"text":"能夠專業化"},{"start":7652.22,"end":7654.22,"text":"老師,當然這個"},{"start":7654.22,"end":7656.22,"text":"剛剛講的五一,是老師的"},{"start":7656.22,"end":7658.22,"text":"一個要教學的內容"},{"start":7658.22,"end":7660.22,"text":"沒有錯,行政工作能夠"},{"start":7660.22,"end":7662.22,"text":"分治,我希望"},{"start":7662.22,"end":7664.22,"text":"我們能夠朝這樣的一個方向來走"},{"start":7664.22,"end":7666.22,"text":"也聽到第一層的"},{"start":7666.22,"end":7668.22,"text":"這些老師的"},{"start":7668.22,"end":7670.22,"text":"一些聲音,所以我們在"},{"start":7670.22,"end":7672.22,"text":"去年就把全面的檢討了"},{"start":7672.22,"end":7674.22,"text":"我們這個"},{"start":7674.22,"end":7676.22,"text":"目前對中小學老師"},{"start":7676.22,"end":7678.22,"text":"的地方,到底要求什麼樣的"},{"start":7678.22,"end":7680.22,"text":"許多的一些表格"},{"start":7680.22,"end":7682.22,"text":"什麼樣的資料的申請"},{"start":7682.22,"end":7684.22,"text":"我們大概150項禮兵"},{"start":7684.22,"end":7686.22,"text":"我們減少了將近70%"},{"start":7686.22,"end":7688.22,"text":"就行政的減量,我想"},{"start":7688.22,"end":7690.22,"text":"這時間關係,我們"},{"start":7690.22,"end":7692.22,"text":"因為要跟部長報告"},{"start":7692.22,"end":7694.22,"text":"我也是第一線"},{"start":7694.22,"end":7696.22,"text":"以前"},{"start":7696.22,"end":7698.22,"text":"曾經當過老師,我的來源"},{"start":7698.22,"end":7700.22,"text":"就是第一線"},{"start":7700.22,"end":7702.22,"text":"所以是最真實的"},{"start":7702.22,"end":7704.22,"text":"最後呢,也要跟部長報告"},{"start":7704.22,"end":7706.22,"text":"第二步,開始在行政減量"},{"start":7706.22,"end":7708.22,"text":"地方縣市教育局處"},{"start":7708.6,"end":7710.6,"text":"有時候,增加的時候"},{"start":7710.6,"end":7712.6,"text":"他都算教育部的,說教育部要求"},{"start":7712.6,"end":7714.6,"text":"我想,這也跟委員做"},{"start":7714.6,"end":7716.6,"text":"這樣的一個補充"},{"start":7716.6,"end":7718.6,"text":"那最後呢,我要跟部長分享"},{"start":7718.6,"end":7720.6,"text":"就是說,我們要有幸福的老師"},{"start":7720.6,"end":7722.6,"text":"才能教出幸福的孩子"},{"start":7722.6,"end":7724.6,"text":"那當學校的"},{"start":7724.6,"end":7726.6,"text":"心理健康,還有"},{"start":7726.6,"end":7728.6,"text":"就是心理健康要"},{"start":7728.6,"end":7730.6,"text":"落實,那對學生的學習"},{"start":7730.6,"end":7732.6,"text":"的一個成效呢,才能夠有"},{"start":7732.6,"end":7734.6,"text":"加成的一個效應"},{"start":7734.6,"end":7736.6,"text":"那因此呢"},{"start":7736.6,"end":7738.6,"text":"我們希望,能夠將"},{"start":7738.6,"end":7740.6,"text":"教師的幸福感,還有心理"},{"start":7740.6,"end":7742.6,"text":"健康教育,能夠納入"},{"start":7742.6,"end":7744.6,"text":"國家的一個品質,關鍵的指標"},{"start":7744.6,"end":7746.6,"text":"希望"},{"start":7746.6,"end":7748.6,"text":"我們一起來努力"},{"start":7748.6,"end":7750.6,"text":"今天呢,我們有一些"},{"start":7750.6,"end":7752.6,"text":"那個請教"},{"start":7752.6,"end":7754.6,"text":"教育部的"},{"start":7754.6,"end":7756.6,"text":"有順便一個計畫"},{"start":7756.6,"end":7758.6,"text":"或報告,也能夠送到"},{"start":7758.6,"end":7760.6,"text":"辦辦來"},{"start":7760.6,"end":7762.6,"text":"謝謝,謝謝委員關心,也指正"},{"start":7762.6,"end":7764.6,"text":"我想對老師,怎麼創造老師的"},{"start":7764.6,"end":7766.6,"text":"幸福感,我們一起努力"},{"start":7766.6,"end":7768.6,"text":"這也是我們重要的"},{"start":7768.6,"end":7770.6,"text":"我同意,他是一個很重要的教育品質"},{"start":7770.6,"end":7772.6,"text":"是,好,那我們一起努力"},{"start":7772.6,"end":7774.6,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":7774.6,"end":7776.6,"text":"謝謝蔡春雄委員的諮詢"},{"start":7776.6,"end":7778.6,"text":"請部長回座,下一位"},{"start":7778.6,"end":7780.6,"text":"有請陳秀寶委員"},{"start":7780.6,"end":7782.6,"text":"那等一下"},{"start":7782.6,"end":7784.6,"text":"吳思堯委員巡到完畢之後"},{"start":7784.6,"end":7786.6,"text":"我們休息五分鐘,秀寶委員請"},{"start":7793.33,"end":7795.33,"text":"謝謝,謝謝"},{"start":7794.8,"end":7796.8,"text":"請鄭部長"},{"start":7796.8,"end":7798.8,"text":"請鄭部長上備訓台,謝謝"},{"start":7803.05,"end":7805.05,"text":"委員好,嘿,部長好"},{"start":7805.05,"end":7807.05,"text":"請教部長,日前呢"},{"start":7807.05,"end":7809.05,"text":"教育部有透露將研議修改"},{"start":7809.05,"end":7811.05,"text":"規定將毒品"},{"start":7811.05,"end":7813.05,"text":"唾液篩檢"},{"start":7813.05,"end":7815.05,"text":"來"},{"start":7814.59,"end":7816.59,"text":"來引入校園"},{"start":7816.59,"end":7818.59,"text":"希望可以改善傳統的尿檢法"},{"start":7818.59,"end":7820.59,"text":"對新興藥物,像E2M紙"},{"start":7820.59,"end":7822.59,"text":"代謝比較快的毒品"},{"start":7822.59,"end":7824.59,"text":"比較難用尿檢法檢出來這個問題"},{"start":7824.59,"end":7826.59,"text":"我想請教部長"},{"start":7826.59,"end":7828.59,"text":"目前有規劃具體的時程嗎"},{"start":7828.59,"end":7830.59,"text":"後續這個"},{"start":7830.59,"end":7832.59,"text":"毒品的唾液快篩要如何分配到學校"},{"start":7832.59,"end":7834.59,"text":"我們如何執行"},{"start":7834.59,"end":7836.59,"text":"是不是已經有開始討論了"},{"start":7836.59,"end":7838.59,"text":"請部長說明一下"},{"start":7838.59,"end":7840.59,"text":"這一次的更委員報告,我想"},{"start":7840.59,"end":7842.59,"text":"這個引入快篩,他確實是有助於"},{"start":7842.59,"end":7844.59,"text":"讓我們及早發現"},{"start":7844.59,"end":7846.59,"text":"學生的許多的一些"},{"start":7846.59,"end":7848.59,"text":"不當的一些毒品的一些接觸"},{"start":7848.59,"end":7850.59,"text":"那詳細的,是不是請我們"},{"start":7850.59,"end":7852.59,"text":"學特施"},{"start":7853.08,"end":7854.08,"text":"請"},{"start":7854.08,"end":7856.08,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":7856.08,"end":7858.08,"text":"因為那個毒品快篩的這個部分"},{"start":7858.08,"end":7860.08,"text":"其實我們已經有在委託師"},{"start":7860.08,"end":7862.08,"text":"大家來幫我們修正相關的要點"},{"start":7862.08,"end":7864.08,"text":"還有一些相關的一些補充的"},{"start":7864.08,"end":7866.08,"text":"一些措施,那這個部分我們也在"},{"start":7866.08,"end":7868.08,"text":"跟內政部警政署有研議"},{"start":7868.08,"end":7870.08,"text":"那有加入內政部警政署"},{"start":7870.08,"end":7872.08,"text":"他的一些毒品快篩的"},{"start":7872.08,"end":7874.08,"text":"共同採購契約,那這部分"},{"start":7874.08,"end":7876.08,"text":"我們是希望在今年的9月"},{"start":7876.08,"end":7878.08,"text":"能夠上路,那這個部分"},{"start":7878.08,"end":7880.08,"text":"如果採購順利的話,是希望"},{"start":7880.08,"end":7882.08,"text":"9月可以上路這樣子"},{"start":7882.08,"end":7884.08,"text":"9月剩下半年的時間"},{"start":7884.08,"end":7886.08,"text":"所以你要如何執行,如何跟學校"},{"start":7886.08,"end":7888.08,"text":"學校要如何配合"},{"start":7888.08,"end":7890.08,"text":"包括相關的人力,包括對象"},{"start":7890.08,"end":7892.08,"text":"包括怎麼執行,其實必須要有一個很具體的"},{"start":7892.08,"end":7894.08,"text":"時程安排,你們已經有"},{"start":7894.08,"end":7896.08,"text":"這樣子具體的"},{"start":7895.54,"end":7897.54,"text":"討論出來嗎"},{"start":7897.54,"end":7899.54,"text":"這個部分呢,我們那個施納的研究案"},{"start":7899.54,"end":7901.54,"text":"出來之後,我們會"},{"start":7901.54,"end":7903.54,"text":"就找各縣市,然後會辦理相關"},{"start":7903.54,"end":7905.54,"text":"的一些研析,那第一線的"},{"start":7905.54,"end":7907.54,"text":"一些教官還有校安"},{"start":7907.54,"end":7909.54,"text":"人力,可以知道說可以怎麼樣"},{"start":7909.54,"end":7911.54,"text":"的運用這個毒品快篩的這個"},{"start":7911.54,"end":7913.54,"text":"試劑,那是不是說"},{"start":7913.54,"end":7915.54,"text":"你們整個的研究"},{"start":7915.54,"end":7917.54,"text":"的這個"},{"start":7917.54,"end":7919.54,"text":"過程了解之後呢,你們開始"},{"start":7919.54,"end":7921.54,"text":"做討論跟縣市"},{"start":7921.54,"end":7923.54,"text":"不管是教育局處,或者是相關"},{"start":7923.54,"end":7925.54,"text":"人力做這些相關的執行的討論"},{"start":7925.54,"end":7927.54,"text":"的時候,有進展情把你們"},{"start":7927.54,"end":7929.54,"text":"的這個報告可以給我辦公室"},{"start":7929.54,"end":7931.54,"text":"讓我了解說你們再來是怎麼"},{"start":7931.54,"end":7933.54,"text":"做安排好嗎"},{"start":7933.54,"end":7935.54,"text":"好,那部長,以後公民團體"},{"start":7935.54,"end":7937.54,"text":"建議,除了這個"},{"start":7937.54,"end":7939.54,"text":"拓業的快篩之外呢,也可以考慮配合"},{"start":7939.54,"end":7941.54,"text":"第二層的檢測,就是所謂的"},{"start":7941.54,"end":7943.54,"text":"葉巷陳希的串聯"},{"start":7943.54,"end":7945.54,"text":"質譜,讓這個快篩"},{"start":7945.54,"end":7947.54,"text":"如果有偽陽性"},{"start":7947.54,"end":7949.54,"text":"或是有爭議的時候呢,可以做"},{"start":7949.54,"end":7951.54,"text":"一些相關的這個依據"},{"start":7951.54,"end":7953.54,"text":"好,部長,您認為呢?"},{"start":7956.51,"end":7958.51,"text":"確實是"},{"start":7959.33,"end":7961.33,"text":"這超乎我的專業的想像"},{"start":7961.33,"end":7963.33,"text":"但是,就快篩"},{"start":7963.33,"end":7965.33,"text":"拓業的一個快篩,對學校來講"},{"start":7965.33,"end":7967.33,"text":"事實上是最方便"},{"start":7967.33,"end":7969.33,"text":"但如果有一個更能夠更精"},{"start":7969.89,"end":7971.89,"text":"這個更好的方式"},{"start":7971.89,"end":7973.89,"text":"我想這一個部分"},{"start":7973.89,"end":7975.89,"text":"我們來看學徒師有沒有"},{"start":7975.89,"end":7977.89,"text":"跟委員報告,因為我們想要用"},{"start":7977.89,"end":7979.89,"text":"那個快篩的部分,拓業快篩"},{"start":7979.89,"end":7981.89,"text":"主要是因為,因應那個"},{"start":7981.89,"end":7983.89,"text":"像一坨米紙這樣的一個星星肚皮"},{"start":7983.89,"end":7985.89,"text":"這是第二層,就是在快篩之後"},{"start":7985.89,"end":7987.89,"text":"對,它代謝很快,所以我們才用"},{"start":7987.89,"end":7989.89,"text":"拓業快篩,但是拓業快篩"},{"start":7989.89,"end":7991.89,"text":"它只是快篩,所以"},{"start":7991.73,"end":7993.73,"text":"不管有沒有實施快篩,最後我們都還是"},{"start":7993.73,"end":7995.73,"text":"要送尿檢,那尿檢"},{"start":7995.73,"end":7997.73,"text":"這個,尿液篩檢這個才是最"},{"start":7997.73,"end":7999.73,"text":"正確的部分,所以快篩"},{"start":7999.73,"end":8001.73,"text":"只是我們初步的一個快篩而已"},{"start":8001.73,"end":8003.73,"text":"所以後面我們都還是會送尿檢"},{"start":8003.73,"end":8005.73,"text":"其實除了這個毒品的檢驗之外"},{"start":8005.73,"end":8007.73,"text":"我們只是說對學生"},{"start":8007.73,"end":8009.73,"text":"比較一個這樣子的檢測之外"},{"start":8009.73,"end":8011.73,"text":"本席也認為說,像"},{"start":8011.73,"end":8013.73,"text":"圖片中這樣子的"},{"start":8013.73,"end":8015.73,"text":"一些毒品食物展示"},{"start":8015.73,"end":8017.73,"text":"向學生來宣導"},{"start":8017.73,"end":8019.73,"text":"毒品的多變性,也真的"},{"start":8019.73,"end":8021.73,"text":"確實讓學生可以對類似的物品"},{"start":8021.73,"end":8023.73,"text":"有警惕、有警覺"},{"start":8023.73,"end":8025.73,"text":"比較容易去辨識,所以我希望"},{"start":8025.73,"end":8027.73,"text":"教育部這邊可以多辦理類似"},{"start":8027.73,"end":8029.73,"text":"這樣毒品宣導,讓學生有警覺心"},{"start":8029.73,"end":8031.73,"text":"那提高他們辨識"},{"start":8031.73,"end":8033.73,"text":"就是毒品,就是"},{"start":8033.73,"end":8035.73,"text":"類似毒品的話,我們就趕快去避免"},{"start":8035.73,"end":8037.73,"text":"才能夠真正防止毒品進入"},{"start":8037.73,"end":8039.73,"text":"校園,那我想請問教育部"},{"start":8039.73,"end":8041.73,"text":"你們可以安排這樣子類似的毒品宣導"},{"start":8041.73,"end":8043.73,"text":"的課程"},{"start":8043.73,"end":8045.73,"text":"跟我們報告,我們確實在"},{"start":8045.73,"end":8047.73,"text":"宣導裡面,事實上"},{"start":8047.73,"end":8049.73,"text":"已經做到入班,以目前來講"},{"start":8049.73,"end":8051.73,"text":"114年,我們總共有"},{"start":8051.73,"end":8053.73,"text":"5萬70002班"},{"start":8053.73,"end":8055.73,"text":"直接到班上去"},{"start":8055.73,"end":8057.73,"text":"做宣導,那另外我們還有透過"},{"start":8057.73,"end":8059.73,"text":"一些,育教育樂的"},{"start":8059.73,"end":8061.73,"text":"用戲劇的,的一些團體"},{"start":8061.73,"end":8063.73,"text":"藝術團體,到學校"},{"start":8063.73,"end":8065.73,"text":"裡面去做反毒的一些"},{"start":8065.73,"end":8067.73,"text":"宣導,就是說,我們事實上"},{"start":8067.73,"end":8069.73,"text":"是多面向的,在做這樣的一個"},{"start":8069.73,"end":8071.73,"text":"其實本席也是支持"},{"start":8071.73,"end":8073.73,"text":"也是肯定說,這是有效果的"},{"start":8073.73,"end":8075.73,"text":"也希望說,這樣子的班次,是不是"},{"start":8075.73,"end":8077.73,"text":"我們可以開更多"},{"start":8077.73,"end":8079.73,"text":"我們除了有一些大規模的"},{"start":8079.73,"end":8081.73,"text":"場合,就是說,已經做到入班"},{"start":8081.73,"end":8083.73,"text":"然後還有,這個"},{"start":8083.73,"end":8085.73,"text":"藝術團體"},{"start":8085.73,"end":8087.73,"text":"這是對於校園的安全,學生的安全"},{"start":8087.73,"end":8089.73,"text":"還有來自我們企業界,也關心"},{"start":8089.73,"end":8091.73,"text":"這一個,他們也在許多"},{"start":8091.73,"end":8093.73,"text":"許多的這一些"},{"start":8093.73,"end":8095.73,"text":"民間的企業團體,他們也幫忙"},{"start":8095.73,"end":8097.73,"text":"在做這樣的一個宣導"},{"start":8097.73,"end":8099.73,"text":"也有這一些"},{"start":8099.73,"end":8101.73,"text":"類似"},{"start":8101.73,"end":8103.73,"text":"園遊會,這一個大的"},{"start":8103.73,"end":8105.73,"text":"好,謝謝部長"},{"start":8105.73,"end":8107.73,"text":"好,那接下來我們也是要關心學生"},{"start":8107.73,"end":8109.73,"text":"權益的部分,接下來是考試"},{"start":8109.73,"end":8111.73,"text":"的部分,我們印尼巴克"},{"start":8111.73,"end":8113.73,"text":"剛為了要是信仰財,在學測"},{"start":8113.73,"end":8115.73,"text":"階段,就將數學分流"},{"start":8115.73,"end":8117.73,"text":"成數A跟數B,一般就是"},{"start":8117.73,"end":8119.73,"text":"我們區分成自然組跟社會組的"},{"start":8119.73,"end":8121.73,"text":"學生來報考,但是我們"},{"start":8121.73,"end":8123.73,"text":"根據這個統計資料顯示"},{"start":8123.73,"end":8125.73,"text":"這112的"},{"start":8125.73,"end":8127.73,"text":"學測,及113的"},{"start":8127.73,"end":8129.73,"text":"學測,分別有高達"},{"start":8129.73,"end":8131.73,"text":"61.22%"},{"start":8131.73,"end":8133.73,"text":"60.6%"},{"start":8133.73,"end":8135.73,"text":"就超過六成的學生"},{"start":8135.73,"end":8137.73,"text":"是數A、數B都報考"},{"start":8137.73,"end":8139.73,"text":"那所以這也導致說,社會組的學生"},{"start":8139.73,"end":8141.73,"text":"可能會受到比較大的影響"},{"start":8141.73,"end":8143.73,"text":"因為數A、數B,雖然說"},{"start":8143.73,"end":8145.73,"text":"它命題及考試內容針對的部分"},{"start":8145.73,"end":8147.73,"text":"是不太一樣,但是其實數B"},{"start":8147.73,"end":8149.73,"text":"大部分的考題,是可以用數A的"},{"start":8149.73,"end":8151.73,"text":"這個邏輯觀念來解題的"},{"start":8151.73,"end":8153.73,"text":"讓自然組的學生,他可以"},{"start":8153.73,"end":8155.73,"text":"相對來講,是覺得"},{"start":8155.73,"end":8157.73,"text":"是比較簡單的來跨考"},{"start":8157.73,"end":8159.73,"text":"那造成說,社會組的學生"},{"start":8159.73,"end":8161.73,"text":"恐怕會面臨更大的競爭跟壓力"},{"start":8161.73,"end":8163.73,"text":"而且很多學生"},{"start":8163.73,"end":8165.73,"text":"他是要考量說,未來在"},{"start":8165.73,"end":8167.73,"text":"大學、校系可能希望可以有更多的選擇"},{"start":8167.73,"end":8169.73,"text":"所以呢,他們都會"},{"start":8169.73,"end":8171.73,"text":"數A、數B全報"},{"start":8171.73,"end":8173.73,"text":"所以導致說,學生"},{"start":8173.73,"end":8175.73,"text":"他要花更多的時間來學"},{"start":8175.73,"end":8177.73,"text":"兩套考試的內容"},{"start":8177.73,"end":8179.73,"text":"更多時間來準備,甚至需要另外去補習"},{"start":8179.73,"end":8181.73,"text":"我想請教"},{"start":8181.73,"end":8183.73,"text":"部長,您覺得說"},{"start":8183.73,"end":8185.73,"text":"數A、數B的分流上"},{"start":8185.73,"end":8187.73,"text":"我們是不是可以有更妥善的"},{"start":8187.73,"end":8189.73,"text":"做法來降低社會組學生所受到的影響"},{"start":8191.48,"end":8193.48,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":8193.48,"end":8195.48,"text":"這個議題其實"},{"start":8195.48,"end":8197.48,"text":"本來就是我們當初的設計的"},{"start":8197.48,"end":8199.48,"text":"利益就是,能夠適性選擇"},{"start":8199.48,"end":8201.48,"text":"每一個學生"},{"start":8201.48,"end":8203.48,"text":"高中生也開始去思考"},{"start":8203.48,"end":8205.48,"text":"他的生涯的發展走向"},{"start":8205.48,"end":8207.48,"text":"早期是只有一個數學"},{"start":8207.48,"end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2018年9月"},{"start":9522.44,"end":9524.44,"text":"份所制定的"},{"start":9524.44,"end":9526.44,"text":"三居時代的東西"},{"start":9526.44,"end":9528.44,"text":"部長承諾的AI以及數學學習的部分"},{"start":9528.44,"end":9530.44,"text":"目前指紋樓梯響"},{"start":9530.44,"end":9532.44,"text":"近來有很多科技大廠"},{"start":9532.44,"end":9534.44,"text":"就在呼籲人才人才人才"},{"start":9534.44,"end":9536.44,"text":"能源能源能源"},{"start":9536.44,"end":9538.44,"text":"那能源呢"},{"start":9538.44,"end":9540.44,"text":"我們也看到賴清德總統"},{"start":9540.44,"end":9542.44,"text":"已經說要重幾何電"},{"start":9542.44,"end":9544.44,"text":"要願意放下神主牌"},{"start":9544.44,"end":9546.44,"text":"人才的部分我們則沒有看到教育部"},{"start":9546.44,"end":9548.44,"text":"有任何的回應"},{"start":9548.44,"end":9550.44,"text":"甚至前幾天公平未來公布"},{"start":9550.44,"end":9552.44,"text":"深層式人工智慧報告"},{"start":9552.44,"end":9554.44,"text":"明確指出業界普遍"},{"start":9554.44,"end":9556.44,"text":"認為台灣現階段人才培育"},{"start":9556.44,"end":9558.44,"text":"速度難以跟上需求"},{"start":9558.44,"end":9560.44,"text":"請教部長教育部何時能夠完成"},{"start":9560.44,"end":9562.44,"text":"科技領域課綱的微調"},{"start":9563.93,"end":9565.93,"text":"跟務委員報告"},{"start":9565.93,"end":9567.93,"text":"確實在這一個"},{"start":9567.93,"end":9569.93,"text":"AI的一個時代裡面"},{"start":9569.93,"end":9571.93,"text":"我們一直我們看"},{"start":9571.93,"end":9573.93,"text":"在108課綱裡面它就有科技領域"},{"start":9573.93,"end":9575.93,"text":"科技領域啊"},{"start":9575.93,"end":9577.93,"text":"誒是要微調嘛"},{"start":9577.93,"end":9579.93,"text":"對不起我時間很有限"},{"start":9579.93,"end":9581.93,"text":"你不要再重複我的問題"},{"start":9581.93,"end":9583.93,"text":"我問你什麼時候可以完成啦"},{"start":9581.03,"end":9583.03,"text":"我們現在就在做"},{"start":9583.03,"end":9585.03,"text":"我們現在的課程"},{"start":9585.03,"end":9587.03,"text":"所有從課程教學跟老師的真人"},{"start":9587.03,"end":9589.03,"text":"我們現在事實上都一直在做"},{"start":9589.03,"end":9591.03,"text":"那什麼時候嘛"},{"start":9591.03,"end":9593.03,"text":"我就說什麼時候做到什麼時候啊"},{"start":9593.03,"end":9595.03,"text":"因為108課綱是科技素揚嘛"},{"start":9595.03,"end":9597.03,"text":"在科技素揚裡面就直接"},{"start":9597.03,"end":9599.03,"text":"我們就談AI不再談3G"},{"start":9599.03,"end":9601.03,"text":"好啦那我們就來看啦"},{"start":9601.03,"end":9603.03,"text":"先看教育部的回文啦"},{"start":9603.03,"end":9605.03,"text":"說108課綱"},{"start":9605.03,"end":9607.03,"text":"具前瞻性"},{"start":9607.03,"end":9609.03,"text":"已經可以將世界趨勢產業發展"},{"start":9609.03,"end":9611.03,"text":"我們現在用學生的學習"},{"start":9611.03,"end":9613.03,"text":"本部為維持現行課綱的穩定性"},{"start":9613.03,"end":9615.03,"text":"沒有要修改"},{"start":9615.03,"end":9617.03,"text":"也沒有要微調啊"},{"start":9617.03,"end":9619.03,"text":"部長這是2026年的教育部"},{"start":9619.03,"end":9621.03,"text":"要打臉你2024年的政部長嗎"},{"start":9621.03,"end":9623.03,"text":"還是您底下的這些"},{"start":9623.03,"end":9625.03,"text":"同仁揚鳳英偉"},{"start":9625.03,"end":9627.03,"text":"不遵守部長"},{"start":9627.03,"end":9629.03,"text":"微調108課綱的指示呢"},{"start":9629.03,"end":9631.03,"text":"沒有我想這裡邊可能"},{"start":9631.03,"end":9633.03,"text":"當時話沒有講清楚"},{"start":9633.03,"end":9635.03,"text":"跟委員抱歉"},{"start":9635.03,"end":9637.03,"text":"因為主要在科技素揚裡面"},{"start":9637.03,"end":9639.03,"text":"過去可能是教"},{"start":9639.03,"end":9641.03,"text":"教這個PE2"},{"start":9641.03,"end":9643.03,"text":"但是現在我們直接就進AI"},{"start":9643.03,"end":9645.03,"text":"就同樣是一個"},{"start":9645.03,"end":9647.03,"text":"我們現在講的是課綱啦"},{"start":9647.03,"end":9649.03,"text":"我們現在講課綱啦"},{"start":9649.03,"end":9651.03,"text":"課綱有沒有AI"},{"start":9650.33,"end":9652.33,"text":"很前瞻性嘛"},{"start":9652.33,"end":9654.33,"text":"哇又前瞻性又有世界趨勢"},{"start":9654.33,"end":9656.33,"text":"哇又前瞻性又有世界趨勢"},{"start":9656.33,"end":9658.33,"text":"好那我來請教部長"},{"start":9658.33,"end":9660.33,"text":"你說我們有科技領域課綱嘛"},{"start":9660.33,"end":9662.33,"text":"對不對"},{"start":9662.33,"end":9664.33,"text":"請部長猜一下"},{"start":9664.33,"end":9666.33,"text":"這本課綱從頭到尾出現過幾次"},{"start":9666.33,"end":9668.33,"text":"人工智慧"},{"start":9668.33,"end":9670.33,"text":"幾次AI"},{"start":9670.08,"end":9672.08,"text":"知不知道"},{"start":9671.32,"end":9673.32,"text":"很前瞻嘛"},{"start":9673.32,"end":9675.32,"text":"世界趨勢嘛出現幾次"},{"start":9676.03,"end":9678.03,"text":"這麼重要的文件"},{"start":9678.4,"end":9680.4,"text":"部長竟然沒有概念啊"},{"start":9680.4,"end":9682.4,"text":"科技領域的"},{"start":9683.05,"end":9685.05,"text":"中等學校的課綱出現幾次人工智慧"},{"start":9686.36,"end":9688.36,"text":"答案部長不知道"},{"start":9688.36,"end":9690.36,"text":"跟我們報告這個幾次"},{"start":9690.36,"end":9692.36,"text":"真的我不曉得"},{"start":9692.36,"end":9694.36,"text":"這一本課綱啊從頭到尾只出現過一次啦"},{"start":9694.36,"end":9696.36,"text":"只有一次四個字"},{"start":9696.36,"end":9698.36,"text":"就是人工智慧這樣"},{"start":9698.36,"end":9700.36,"text":"更誇張的AI這兩個字"},{"start":9700.36,"end":9702.36,"text":"完全沒有提啊"},{"start":9702.36,"end":9704.36,"text":"所以我們的學生在學的時候"},{"start":9704.36,"end":9706.36,"text":"到底AI AI人工智慧"},{"start":9707.45,"end":9709.45,"text":"完整的理念是完全不足的"},{"start":9709.45,"end":9711.45,"text":"早在2016年"},{"start":9711.45,"end":9713.45,"text":"谷歌的人工智慧就已經在"},{"start":9713.45,"end":9715.45,"text":"棋盤上面"},{"start":9715.45,"end":9717.45,"text":"委員是這一個領域的專家"},{"start":9717.45,"end":9719.45,"text":"當然我們教育部如果有不足的"},{"start":9719.45,"end":9721.45,"text":"也歡迎委員跟我們做專業的指導"},{"start":9721.45,"end":9723.45,"text":"謝謝部長啊我現在就點出問題嘛"},{"start":9723.45,"end":9725.45,"text":"我現在點出問題我們一起來解決啦"},{"start":9725.45,"end":9727.45,"text":"那現在我們其實看到"},{"start":9727.45,"end":9729.45,"text":"這個真的不能再待多下去啦"},{"start":9729.45,"end":9731.45,"text":"我們真的是希望迎回2024年的"},{"start":9731.45,"end":9733.45,"text":"鄭部長啊"},{"start":9733.45,"end":9735.45,"text":"我們真的應該要趕快微調了"},{"start":9735.45,"end":9737.45,"text":"不要再只是講我們有在做"},{"start":9737.45,"end":9739.45,"text":"什麼時候我們現在部長"},{"start":9739.45,"end":9741.45,"text":"您看啊兩任兩本"},{"start":9741.45,"end":9743.45,"text":"是前一任部長一本"},{"start":9743.45,"end":9745.45,"text":"是您啊這個AI指引嘛"},{"start":9745.45,"end":9747.45,"text":"用補丁的方式"},{"start":9747.45,"end":9749.45,"text":"在搞我們的AI教育這樣"},{"start":9749.45,"end":9751.45,"text":"夠嗎我想這可能還是"},{"start":9751.45,"end":9753.45,"text":"完全不夠的真的能讓學生"},{"start":9753.45,"end":9755.45,"text":"認識了解AI善用AI嗎"},{"start":9755.45,"end":9757.45,"text":"那我們認為啦AI還有"},{"start":9757.45,"end":9759.45,"text":"所謂AI素養數位素養"},{"start":9759.45,"end":9761.45,"text":"都完全不夠課綱裡面對AI"},{"start":9761.45,"end":9763.45,"text":"的描述也完全不足"},{"start":9763.45,"end":9765.45,"text":"那我想要考一下這個部長"},{"start":9765.45,"end":9767.45,"text":"數位世界裡面的數位素養"},{"start":9767.45,"end":9769.45,"text":"要去理解他學習他"},{"start":9769.45,"end":9771.45,"text":"大家常用Emoji來"},{"start":9771.45,"end":9773.45,"text":"這個社群互動啊"},{"start":9773.45,"end":9775.45,"text":"部長看一下很好的範例喔"},{"start":9775.45,"end":9777.45,"text":"這個女星安海社會開通"},{"start":9777.45,"end":9779.45,"text":"催帳號啦前總統蔡英文"},{"start":9779.45,"end":9781.45,"text":"底下留言三個小圖示"},{"start":9781.45,"end":9783.45,"text":"部長可不可以幫忙我們全國"},{"start":9783.45,"end":9785.45,"text":"師生翻譯一下"},{"start":9785.45,"end":9787.45,"text":"這三個小圖示是什麼意思"},{"start":9788.3,"end":9790.3,"text":"看一下部長您的數位素養"},{"start":9795.36,"end":9797.36,"text":"請委員指導"},{"start":9825.36,"end":9827.36,"text":"這個Emoji是什麼意思"},{"start":9827.36,"end":9829.36,"text":"左邊是什麼"},{"start":9831.9,"end":9833.9,"text":"翻譯一下"},{"start":9834.4,"end":9836.4,"text":"這沒有陷阱啊部長"},{"start":9837.33,"end":9839.33,"text":"就是你現在的表情啊"},{"start":9839.33,"end":9841.33,"text":"笑啦開心啦"},{"start":9841.33,"end":9843.33,"text":"中間呢中間翻譯成中文是什麼"},{"start":9845.53,"end":9847.53,"text":"也是笑喜極而泣"},{"start":9848.49,"end":9850.49,"text":"笑到掉眼淚"},{"start":9850.49,"end":9852.49,"text":"好啦可以啦笑哭啦"},{"start":9852.49,"end":9854.49,"text":"那第三個是什麼"},{"start":9854.49,"end":9856.49,"text":"這比較難喔"},{"start":9857.01,"end":9859.01,"text":"試試看啊"},{"start":9859.39,"end":9861.39,"text":"倒立著笑是不是"},{"start":9861.39,"end":9863.39,"text":"笑翻過來也不錯很有創意喔"},{"start":9863.39,"end":9865.39,"text":"這叫陰陽怪氣的意思啦"},{"start":9865.39,"end":9869.39,"text":"部長我們用這個賴總統尷尬又不思禮貌的微笑"},{"start":9869.39,"end":9873.39,"text":"來這個對您的程度我只能給你這樣的一個微笑啦"},{"start":9873.39,"end":9875.39,"text":"那我們再看AI素養數位素養"},{"start":9875.39,"end":9877.39,"text":"我再請部長看一段影片"},{"start":9877.39,"end":9879.39,"text":"判斷一下這是不是AI偽造的訊息"},{"start":9879.39,"end":9885.39,"text":"美國第一夫人梅蘭妮與AI機器人一同亮相的影片"},{"start":9890.13,"end":9892.13,"text":"這在白宮啊"},{"start":9891.82,"end":9893.82,"text":"白宮的背景啊"},{"start":9894.13,"end":9897.13,"text":"部長你覺得這是AI偽造的其他影片嗎"},{"start":9899.16,"end":9902.16,"text":"確實現在的假影片確實是"},{"start":9902.16,"end":9904.16,"text":"這是真的還假的啦"},{"start":9904.16,"end":9905.16,"text":"部長"},{"start":9910.37,"end":9913.37,"text":"部長很好我覺得部長這個精神很棒"},{"start":9913.37,"end":9915.37,"text":"要很仔細看才能回答沒錯"},{"start":9915.37,"end":9917.37,"text":"這個要給部長一個肯定"},{"start":9917.37,"end":9919.37,"text":"我跟部長報告啦"},{"start":9919.97,"end":9921.97,"text":"這是要不要說一下嘛"},{"start":9924.34,"end":9925.34,"text":"您是你"},{"start":9925.34,"end":9929.34,"text":"不行啦部長你這樣子不能逃避寫答案的那個責任"},{"start":9929.34,"end":9932.34,"text":"這您向我質詢您要回答好不好"},{"start":9932.34,"end":9936.34,"text":"我同意我一定遵照委員的意思來辦來做"},{"start":9936.34,"end":9938.34,"text":"沒關係部長說不出來沒關係啦"},{"start":9938.34,"end":9941.34,"text":"因為委員是領域的專家我不敢在委員的面前"},{"start":9941.34,"end":9944.34,"text":"部長對謝謝謝謝沒有沒有大家都不夠專家"},{"start":9944.34,"end":9947.34,"text":"我們AI時代所有人都在同一條起跑線上"},{"start":9947.34,"end":9951.34,"text":"所以要教育部拜託要讓我們在新的起跑線上"},{"start":9951.34,"end":9955.34,"text":"讓所有的學生都能夠往前衝這部影片是真的"},{"start":9955.34,"end":9960.34,"text":"是為什麼因為他的這個帳號是有一個金色勾勾"},{"start":9960.34,"end":9964.34,"text":"推特2022年就發布了金色勾勾就是企業的帳號"},{"start":9964.34,"end":9967.34,"text":"而這個影像完全是真實的"},{"start":9967.34,"end":9970.34,"text":"AI時代不是只是手機裡面的AI"},{"start":9970.34,"end":9973.34,"text":"是走出來了走在白宮裡面啦"},{"start":9973.34,"end":9977.34,"text":"結果我們的課綱科技領域對人工智慧提到一次"},{"start":9977.34,"end":9979.34,"text":"四個字人工智慧都沒有啊"},{"start":9979.34,"end":9983.34,"text":"部長這種科技教育原地踏步"},{"start":9983.34,"end":9986.34,"text":"我想不是只是您在這裡說委員我尊重"},{"start":9986.34,"end":9991.34,"text":"我謝謝您的精神但要take action action talks louder than words"},{"start":9991.34,"end":9994.34,"text":"報告我們事實上現在有規劃了一個"},{"start":9994.34,"end":9997.34,"text":"未來人才AI的能力不小"},{"start":9999.33,"end":10002.33,"text":"好啦我知道部長您自己也有點要笑哭了啦"},{"start":10002.33,"end":10007.33,"text":"這個我們都知道同仁也很努力不夠好不好真的不夠"},{"start":10007.33,"end":10011.33,"text":"這個稿子我都知道同仁準備很努力真的不夠啦"},{"start":10011.33,"end":10016.33,"text":"課綱微調好不好課綱科技的部分的微調2024年的"},{"start":10016.33,"end":10019.33,"text":"您不要打臉2024年的你自己啦"},{"start":10019.33,"end":10022.33,"text":"那最後我爭取一點時間啦其實芬蘭啦"},{"start":10022.33,"end":10026.33,"text":"有一些例子我希望教育部的同仁可以去研議啦"},{"start":10026.33,"end":10030.33,"text":"他接下來要強調數位參與權要做為基本公民權"},{"start":10030.33,"end":10034.33,"text":"每個人都要有平等使用AI的機會"},{"start":10034.33,"end":10040.33,"text":"目標很具體喔住在偏鄉的阿嬤都要懂AI這是芬蘭啦"},{"start":10040.33,"end":10044.33,"text":"部長本席先前有提醒過教育部AI要大力推廣"},{"start":10044.33,"end":10047.33,"text":"而且要在終身教育全面的推廣"},{"start":10047.33,"end":10049.33,"text":"上次質詢完以後教育部有沒有加強"},{"start":10049.33,"end":10051.33,"text":"終身教育階段的AI教育資源"},{"start":10051.33,"end":10055.33,"text":"這個確實我們在終身教育這個社區大學裡邊"},{"start":10055.33,"end":10060.33,"text":"我們也請這個終身師能夠跟社區大學裡邊"},{"start":10060.33,"end":10063.33,"text":"能夠管開類似的一些AI科技教育的部分"},{"start":10063.33,"end":10065.33,"text":"就是科技教育"},{"start":10065.33,"end":10071.33,"text":"我們現在事實上我也去看了這個彰化的一個社區大學裡邊"},{"start":10071.33,"end":10077.33,"text":"我們看到一個80歲的女士也在操作"},{"start":10077.33,"end":10080.33,"text":"這是很好的例子謝謝教育部"},{"start":10080.33,"end":10082.33,"text":"但是喔本席也整理過啦"},{"start":10082.33,"end":10086.33,"text":"台灣的學生或者所有人最常使用的AI工具啦"},{"start":10087.5,"end":10089.5,"text":"要錢的對吧"},{"start":10089.5,"end":10093.5,"text":"有20美金的600塊台幣的有6000塊台幣的"},{"start":10093.5,"end":10095.5,"text":"知行要合一"},{"start":10095.5,"end":10097.5,"text":"我謝謝有提供知的教育說知道"},{"start":10097.5,"end":10099.5,"text":"但是用"},{"start":10099.97,"end":10101.97,"text":"付費的跟付很貴的費用的"},{"start":10101.97,"end":10103.97,"text":"到底差在哪裡"},{"start":10103.97,"end":10105.97,"text":"學生有沒有那個能力去知道"},{"start":10107.1,"end":10109.1,"text":"有沒有這個能力知道"},{"start":10109.56,"end":10111.56,"text":"我想這一個當然"},{"start":10111.56,"end":10113.56,"text":"老師在上課的怎麼樣去做"},{"start":10113.56,"end":10115.56,"text":"那老師有沒有辦法報帳"},{"start":10115.56,"end":10117.56,"text":"去付錢"},{"start":10117.56,"end":10119.56,"text":"去教學有沒有這樣的預算"},{"start":10119.56,"end":10121.56,"text":"跟我們報告當我們這一個"},{"start":10121.56,"end":10123.56,"text":"這一個AI這一個"},{"start":10123.56,"end":10126.56,"text":"方舟人才培育劇的話"},{"start":10126.56,"end":10128.56,"text":"我們確實考慮到"},{"start":10128.56,"end":10132.56,"text":"是不是在老師的教學裡邊也能夠"},{"start":10132.56,"end":10134.56,"text":"有一些部分的經費的一些補助"},{"start":10134.56,"end":10136.56,"text":"太好了太好了"},{"start":10136.56,"end":10138.56,"text":"我們確實是有這樣"},{"start":10138.56,"end":10140.56,"text":"在討論這一個議題"},{"start":10140.56,"end":10142.56,"text":"要做好不好"},{"start":10142.56,"end":10144.56,"text":"我們每次問AI再討論"},{"start":10144.56,"end":10146.56,"text":"你2024年討論到現在"},{"start":10146.56,"end":10148.56,"text":"我們當然中央跟地方"},{"start":10148.56,"end":10150.56,"text":"來合作看怎麼樣"},{"start":10150.56,"end":10152.56,"text":"因為老師在教學"},{"start":10152.56,"end":10154.56,"text":"他會用到這個付費的軟體"},{"start":10154.56,"end":10156.56,"text":"那效果是完全不一樣"},{"start":10156.56,"end":10158.56,"text":"部長你們的高度還是很重要"},{"start":10158.56,"end":10160.56,"text":"先前我們曾經引用Global AI Index"},{"start":10160.56,"end":10162.56,"text":"台灣賣AI全球第一"},{"start":10162.56,"end":10164.56,"text":"用AI全球第二十一遠遠落後"},{"start":10164.56,"end":10166.56,"text":"新加坡日本韓國啦"},{"start":10166.56,"end":10168.56,"text":"部長文化部的文化幣"},{"start":10168.56,"end":10170.56,"text":"是很棒的政策"},{"start":10171.79,"end":10173.79,"text":"教育部有沒有辦法研議AIB"},{"start":10173.79,"end":10175.79,"text":"我們已經講了一整年了啦"},{"start":10175.79,"end":10177.79,"text":"剛剛提到的天香阿嬤"},{"start":10177.79,"end":10179.79,"text":"用AIB可以來用付費的AI"},{"start":10179.79,"end":10181.79,"text":"老師可以用AIB"},{"start":10181.79,"end":10183.79,"text":"來教學生"},{"start":10183.79,"end":10185.79,"text":"學生可以用AIB"},{"start":10185.79,"end":10187.79,"text":"來體驗付費的AI"},{"start":10187.79,"end":10189.79,"text":"跟沒付費的差別在哪"},{"start":10189.79,"end":10191.79,"text":"這也是學習對AIB發放進程"},{"start":10191.79,"end":10193.79,"text":"有沒有什麼具體的進展"},{"start":10194.44,"end":10196.44,"text":"我想我們內部我們來討論"},{"start":10196.44,"end":10200.44,"text":"好這個我們會持續跟同仁保持緊密的聯繫啦"},{"start":10200.44,"end":10202.44,"text":"我想主席也會認同"},{"start":10202.44,"end":10204.44,"text":"這真的太重要了"},{"start":10204.44,"end":10206.44,"text":"那我最後給部長一個非常重要的idea"},{"start":10206.44,"end":10208.44,"text":"這是Open Source的idea"},{"start":10208.44,"end":10210.44,"text":"開源的啦"},{"start":10210.44,"end":10212.44,"text":"部長我們研議內部做了很多討論"},{"start":10212.44,"end":10214.44,"text":"教育部所屬的圖書館"},{"start":10216.24,"end":10218.24,"text":"可不可以率先做起"},{"start":10218.24,"end":10220.24,"text":"成為台灣數位平權的領頭羊"},{"start":10220.24,"end":10222.24,"text":"管管有AI"},{"start":10222.24,"end":10224.24,"text":"這不是只是喊話而已"},{"start":10224.24,"end":10226.24,"text":"圖書館裡面的電腦"},{"start":10226.24,"end":10228.24,"text":"可不可以有AI訂閱的服務"},{"start":10228.24,"end":10230.24,"text":"可不可以訂20塊美金的"},{"start":10230.24,"end":10232.24,"text":"可不可以訂200塊美金的"},{"start":10232.24,"end":10234.24,"text":"只要你有一個戒書證"},{"start":10234.24,"end":10236.24,"text":"你可以去使用這台電腦"},{"start":10236.24,"end":10238.24,"text":"你可以體驗一下"},{"start":10238.24,"end":10240.24,"text":"付費的AI畫出來的圖"},{"start":10240.24,"end":10242.24,"text":"字都不會歪"},{"start":10242.24,"end":10244.24,"text":"付費的AI畫出來的"},{"start":10244.24,"end":10246.24,"text":"這一個文章它可以教導我很多的知識"},{"start":10246.24,"end":10248.24,"text":"AI就像一個"},{"start":10248.24,"end":10250.24,"text":"有汪洋大海的圖書館"},{"start":10250.24,"end":10252.24,"text":"而且它還可以跟你一起協作"},{"start":10252.24,"end":10254.24,"text":"管管有AI的目標"},{"start":10254.24,"end":10256.24,"text":"讓教育部所屬的圖書館"},{"start":10256.24,"end":10258.24,"text":"成為台灣民眾"},{"start":10258.24,"end":10260.24,"text":"接觸先進科技的平台"},{"start":10260.24,"end":10262.24,"text":"的第一站跟媒介"},{"start":10262.24,"end":10264.24,"text":"有沒有機會"},{"start":10264.03,"end":10266.03,"text":"有沒有機會部長"},{"start":10266.03,"end":10268.03,"text":"這個idea真的很棒喔"},{"start":10268.03,"end":10270.03,"text":"非常專業"},{"start":10270.03,"end":10272.03,"text":"非常良善的一個建議"},{"start":10272.03,"end":10274.03,"text":"我想我們來做啦"},{"start":10274.03,"end":10276.03,"text":"部長可不可以在一個月內將相關"},{"start":10276.03,"end":10278.03,"text":"研議結果書面提供給本席"},{"start":10278.03,"end":10280.03,"text":"初步就好啦"},{"start":10280.03,"end":10282.03,"text":"一個月啦真的"},{"start":10282.03,"end":10284.03,"text":"AI真的走的很快"},{"start":10284.03,"end":10286.03,"text":"來跟委員來做報告"},{"start":10286.03,"end":10288.03,"text":"我今天真的非常感謝主席"},{"start":10288.03,"end":10290.03,"text":"願意讓我借用這麼多的時間"},{"start":10290.03,"end":10292.03,"text":"那我最後要跟部長分享啦"},{"start":10292.03,"end":10294.03,"text":"芬蘭真的例子可以參考"},{"start":10294.03,"end":10296.03,"text":"其實那個觀光有AI他們也在做部分"},{"start":10296.03,"end":10298.03,"text":"我們一定可以做得比他更好"},{"start":10298.03,"end":10300.03,"text":"那因為為什麼"},{"start":10300.03,"end":10302.03,"text":"每一個AI的晶片都台灣在賣的嘛"},{"start":10302.03,"end":10304.03,"text":"我們應該要讓台灣的每一個孩子"},{"start":10304.03,"end":10306.03,"text":"都更加的能夠使用到AI"},{"start":10306.03,"end":10308.03,"text":"那還有一個很重要的議題啦"},{"start":10308.03,"end":10310.03,"text":"芬蘭不只"},{"start":10310.03,"end":10312.03,"text":"一起支離躍升AI科技強國"},{"start":10312.03,"end":10314.03,"text":"並且大力推廣免費的"},{"start":10314.03,"end":10316.03,"text":"政府做的喔"},{"start":10316.03,"end":10318.03,"text":"免費的AI線上課程"},{"start":10318.03,"end":10320.03,"text":"叫Elements of 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總共五萬人"},{"start":10869.72,"end":10871.72,"text":"但是我們所有的老師"},{"start":10871.72,"end":10873.72,"text":"二十萬人"},{"start":10873.72,"end":10875.72,"text":"我再給你一個建議"},{"start":10875.72,"end":10877.72,"text":"因為現在問題"},{"start":10877.72,"end":10879.72,"text":"大家都會去問AI"},{"start":10879.72,"end":10881.72,"text":"你現在課程怎麼樣"},{"start":10881.72,"end":10883.72,"text":"我建議你再多問幾個"},{"start":10883.72,"end":10885.72,"text":"多問幾個平台"},{"start":10885.72,"end":10887.72,"text":"綜合這些答案"},{"start":10887.72,"end":10889.72,"text":"然後針對你現在"},{"start":10889.72,"end":10891.72,"text":"對AI所提出來的課程"},{"start":10891.72,"end":10893.72,"text":"給各級學校"},{"start":10893.72,"end":10895.72,"text":"大家共同"},{"start":10895.72,"end":10897.72,"text":"我覺得他講的很客觀"},{"start":10897.72,"end":10899.72,"text":"你的問題跟你的優點"},{"start":10899.72,"end":10901.72,"text":"都有了 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我們有請"},{"start":10939.72,"end":10941.72,"text":"陳培宇委員詢答"},{"start":10948.13,"end":10950.13,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":10950.13,"end":10952.13,"text":"部長是不是喝個水休息一下"},{"start":10952.13,"end":10954.13,"text":"一樣要有請部長"},{"start":10967.3,"end":10969.3,"text":"有請部長 謝謝"},{"start":10969.3,"end":10971.3,"text":"請鄭部長"},{"start":10971.22,"end":10973.22,"text":"裴旋 請"},{"start":10975.57,"end":10977.57,"text":"委員好"},{"start":10977.06,"end":10979.06,"text":"好 部長好 我們來看第一個新聞"},{"start":10979.76,"end":10981.76,"text":"我們感到很納悶"},{"start":10981.76,"end":10983.76,"text":"我們看到有相關的新聞報導說"},{"start":10983.76,"end":10985.76,"text":"國立台中科技大學"},{"start":10985.76,"end":10987.76,"text":"為什麼要強調國立呢"},{"start":10987.76,"end":10989.76,"text":"教育部你們的主管業務"},{"start":10989.76,"end":10991.76,"text":"你們是他們主管"},{"start":10991.76,"end":10993.76,"text":"我想問一下相關的報導"},{"start":10993.76,"end":10995.76,"text":"我們後來詢問了教育部"},{"start":10995.76,"end":10999.76,"text":"問說這個校長到中國去申請補助這件事情"},{"start":10999.76,"end":11001.76,"text":"有沒有報請教育部同意"},{"start":11001.76,"end":11005.76,"text":"教育部給我們辦公室的回函說的非常的模糊"},{"start":11005.76,"end":11007.76,"text":"你們只告訴我相關法規"},{"start":11007.76,"end":11009.76,"text":"但是你們沒有告訴我"},{"start":11009.76,"end":11011.76,"text":"台中科大目前的說法是什麼"},{"start":11011.76,"end":11013.76,"text":"第二個"},{"start":11013.76,"end":11015.76,"text":"他當時參選的時候"},{"start":11015.76,"end":11017.76,"text":"他必須要交一些書面資料"},{"start":11017.76,"end":11019.76,"text":"就是他到底有沒有到中國大陸地區"},{"start":11019.76,"end":11021.76,"text":"去從事交流呢"},{"start":11021.76,"end":11023.76,"text":"或者是他有沒有去中國大陸地區"},{"start":11023.76,"end":11025.76,"text":"做一些講座啦"},{"start":11025.76,"end":11027.76,"text":"那他哪一些勾有哪一些勾沒有"},{"start":11027.76,"end":11029.76,"text":"我相信你們手上有資料"},{"start":11029.76,"end":11031.76,"text":"但是我在看你們給我回覆的資料"},{"start":11031.76,"end":11033.76,"text":"我覺得非常的荒謬"},{"start":11033.76,"end":11035.76,"text":"到底有沒有說不清楚"},{"start":11035.76,"end":11037.76,"text":"相關的法規其實規定的很清楚"},{"start":11037.76,"end":11039.76,"text":"但是到底這個學校現況如何"},{"start":11039.76,"end":11041.76,"text":"那教育部接下來如何問責"},{"start":11041.76,"end":11043.76,"text":"跟確認相關事情到底是不是屬實"},{"start":11045.06,"end":11047.06,"text":"跟我們報告"},{"start":11047.06,"end":11049.06,"text":"台中科大陳校長的這件案例"},{"start":11049.06,"end":11051.06,"text":"因為經媒體揭露"},{"start":11051.06,"end":11053.06,"text":"我們教育部自已執行已經行文"},{"start":11053.06,"end":11055.06,"text":"要學校把所有對外界的指控"},{"start":11055.06,"end":11057.06,"text":"要先說明清楚"},{"start":11057.06,"end":11059.06,"text":"等於說要回覆教育部"},{"start":11059.06,"end":11061.06,"text":"然後我們再根據他的回覆"},{"start":11061.06,"end":11063.06,"text":"我們會到現場裡面再去做實地的一些調查了解"},{"start":11063.06,"end":11065.06,"text":"我們會到現場裡面再去做實地的一些調查了解"},{"start":11065.06,"end":11067.06,"text":"我們會到現場裡面再去做實地的一些調查了解"},{"start":11067.06,"end":11069.06,"text":"我們會到現場裡面再去做實地的一些調查了解"},{"start":11069.06,"end":11071.06,"text":"我們會到現場裡面再去做實地的一些調查了解"},{"start":11071.06,"end":11073.06,"text":"我們會到現場裡面再去做實地的一些調查了解"},{"start":11073.06,"end":11075.06,"text":"行政程序目前是已經行文要學校針對外界的指控"},{"start":11075.06,"end":11077.06,"text":"行政程序目前是已經行文要學校針對外界的指控"},{"start":11077.06,"end":11079.06,"text":"什麼時候發文部長什麼時候發的文"},{"start":11079.06,"end":11081.06,"text":"我們那個"},{"start":11081.06,"end":11083.06,"text":"大聲一點謝謝"},{"start":11083.06,"end":11085.06,"text":"跟委員報告報載之後的第二天"},{"start":11085.06,"end":11087.06,"text":"報載之後的第二天我們就發文了"},{"start":11087.06,"end":11089.06,"text":"你們讓他們多久時間回應你們"},{"start":11089.06,"end":11091.06,"text":"我們就一周內"},{"start":11091.06,"end":11093.06,"text":"一周內他們回覆了嗎"},{"start":11093.06,"end":11095.06,"text":"還沒還沒"},{"start":11095.06,"end":11097.06,"text":"那我聽說現在有地方上有聲音傳出"},{"start":11097.06,"end":11099.06,"text":"我不確定教育部你們接下來態度會是什麼"},{"start":11099.06,"end":11101.06,"text":"據說台中科技大學的人"},{"start":11101.06,"end":11103.06,"text":"可能會跟你們說"},{"start":11103.06,"end":11105.06,"text":"可能然後會說"},{"start":11105.06,"end":11107.06,"text":"查無事實"},{"start":11107.06,"end":11109.06,"text":"那你們怎麼辦假設你們收到這樣的回覆你們該怎麼辦"},{"start":11111.54,"end":11113.54,"text":"那個部長已經指示了我們會主專案小組"},{"start":11113.54,"end":11115.54,"text":"會主專案小組"},{"start":11115.54,"end":11117.54,"text":"依據學校所報的"},{"start":11117.54,"end":11119.54,"text":"他們自己提供的"},{"start":11119.54,"end":11121.54,"text":"一些資料佐證資料"},{"start":11121.54,"end":11123.54,"text":"給我們那我們就會"},{"start":11123.54,"end":11125.54,"text":"實際的逐條的"},{"start":11125.54,"end":11127.54,"text":"根據報導還有你們"},{"start":11127.54,"end":11129.54,"text":"回覆的這一些我們會去"},{"start":11129.54,"end":11131.54,"text":"做一些的查核"},{"start":11131.54,"end":11133.54,"text":"還有論文的部分國科會"},{"start":11133.54,"end":11135.54,"text":"也是在做查核"},{"start":11135.54,"end":11137.54,"text":"所以教育部會跟國科會一起開會嗎"},{"start":11137.54,"end":11139.54,"text":"還是分頭並進"},{"start":11139.54,"end":11141.54,"text":"分頭做因為國科會只負責論文"},{"start":11141.54,"end":11143.54,"text":"好沒有問題喔"},{"start":11143.54,"end":11145.54,"text":"我覺得這個態度非常堅定而且非常清楚"},{"start":11145.54,"end":11147.54,"text":"有就有沒有就沒有"},{"start":11147.54,"end":11149.54,"text":"有犯法就有犯法沒有犯法就沒有犯法"},{"start":11149.54,"end":11151.54,"text":"我們從來沒有阻止兩岸學術"},{"start":11151.54,"end":11153.54,"text":"交流但是"},{"start":11153.54,"end":11155.54,"text":"該申報就要申報該遵守"},{"start":11155.54,"end":11157.54,"text":"法規就要遵守法規我想"},{"start":11157.54,"end":11159.54,"text":"態度非常地清楚好以上謝謝"},{"start":11159.54,"end":11161.54,"text":"好接下來第二個"},{"start":11162.01,"end":11164.01,"text":"學生輔導法在修法之後"},{"start":11164.01,"end":11166.01,"text":"有非常多的子法要修訂喔"},{"start":11166.01,"end":11168.01,"text":"那我現在回到教文我繼續"},{"start":11168.01,"end":11170.01,"text":"追蹤相關進度第一個是"},{"start":11170.01,"end":11172.01,"text":"相關的要點喔那我們辦公室"},{"start":11172.01,"end":11174.01,"text":"在召開會議之後我們知道實施要點"},{"start":11174.01,"end":11176.01,"text":"往下呢會有這個"},{"start":11176.01,"end":11178.01,"text":"教職員原而編制準則的問題"},{"start":11178.01,"end":11180.01,"text":"還有專業輔導人員設置的辦法"},{"start":11180.01,"end":11182.01,"text":"那這邊我想要直接請國教署署長"},{"start":11182.01,"end":11184.01,"text":"回答署長我想要確認一下"},{"start":11184.01,"end":11186.01,"text":"原而編制準則跟輔導人員設置"},{"start":11186.01,"end":11188.01,"text":"辦法你們目前子法修法進度"},{"start":11188.01,"end":11190.01,"text":"跟相關公告進度的規劃"},{"start":11190.01,"end":11192.01,"text":"好謝謝首先在要點的部分"},{"start":11192.01,"end":11194.01,"text":"會配合原而準則"},{"start":11194.01,"end":11196.01,"text":"以及下面的第三點"},{"start":11196.01,"end":11198.01,"text":"在行政院4月9號"},{"start":11198.01,"end":11200.01,"text":"會審議審議的結果"},{"start":11200.01,"end":11202.01,"text":"我們會作為補助的依據"},{"start":11202.01,"end":11204.01,"text":"這是第一點那這個我們"},{"start":11204.01,"end":11206.01,"text":"預期行政院那個"},{"start":11206.01,"end":11208.01,"text":"是我們會尊重行政院審議的結果"},{"start":11208.01,"end":11210.01,"text":"應該是4月份會審議完"},{"start":11210.01,"end":11212.01,"text":"所以第一項應該5月份"},{"start":11212.01,"end":11214.01,"text":"以前會公佈好第一項5月份"},{"start":11214.01,"end":11216.01,"text":"以前然後第二項因為他會涉及到"},{"start":11216.01,"end":11218.01,"text":"最近委員們提到"},{"start":11218.01,"end":11220.01,"text":"行政專職化的討論"},{"start":11220.01,"end":11222.01,"text":"原來我們預定前一個版本"},{"start":11222.01,"end":11224.01,"text":"在3月31號可以公佈"},{"start":11224.01,"end":11226.01,"text":"但是行政專職化因為部長很關心"},{"start":11226.01,"end":11228.01,"text":"還是希望我們全面收集意見檢討"},{"start":11228.01,"end":11230.01,"text":"這個我們會在5到6月間公佈"},{"start":11230.01,"end":11232.01,"text":"好第二項"},{"start":11232.01,"end":11234.01,"text":"他是很大規模的那我們會"},{"start":11234.01,"end":11236.01,"text":"在那個時間公佈不希望在"},{"start":11236.01,"end":11238.01,"text":"可能要更久本來要7月8月"},{"start":11238.01,"end":11240.01,"text":"我們覺得應該要5月6月"},{"start":11240.01,"end":11242.01,"text":"讓學校就可以禁用在新學年度前"},{"start":11242.01,"end":11244.01,"text":"所以我們會在5月6月"},{"start":11244.01,"end":11246.01,"text":"5月底會完成"},{"start":11246.01,"end":11248.01,"text":"第三項剛才已經報告"},{"start":11248.01,"end":11250.01,"text":"好署長你完全都知道我要問什麼"},{"start":11250.01,"end":11252.01,"text":"第一項我沒有問題"},{"start":11252.01,"end":11254.01,"text":"然後第三項專輔仁的辦法跟"},{"start":11254.01,"end":11256.01,"text":"補助辦法4月9號會公佈這個"},{"start":11256.01,"end":11258.01,"text":"我也沒有問題確實關鍵是他會"},{"start":11258.01,"end":11260.01,"text":"連動到第二項你剛說"},{"start":11260.01,"end":11262.01,"text":"這個關於人員原而編制準則"},{"start":11262.01,"end":11264.01,"text":"他會牽扯到行政人員專職"},{"start":11264.01,"end":11266.01,"text":"這件事情我認為確實如同剛剛"},{"start":11266.01,"end":11268.01,"text":"謝委員所說的很多老師在問"},{"start":11268.01,"end":11270.01,"text":"可不可以減輕他們的行政"},{"start":11270.01,"end":11272.01,"text":"但是你現在跟我說5 6月"},{"start":11272.01,"end":11274.01,"text":"所以你們決定這個部分需要送交行政院嗎"},{"start":11274.01,"end":11276.01,"text":"第二項不用送交行政院"},{"start":11276.01,"end":11278.01,"text":"所以不理念自己決定就可以了"},{"start":11278.01,"end":11280.01,"text":"現在主要是在蒐集意見"},{"start":11280.01,"end":11282.01,"text":"譬如說我們有5條的"},{"start":11282.01,"end":11284.01,"text":"主要內涵包含說"},{"start":11284.01,"end":11286.01,"text":"我們要不要"},{"start":11286.01,"end":11288.01,"text":"讓小學有設副組長"},{"start":11288.01,"end":11290.01,"text":"我們要不要讓"},{"start":11290.01,"end":11292.01,"text":"這個關係到原而編制"},{"start":11292.01,"end":11294.01,"text":"我們要不要讓變動的"},{"start":11294.01,"end":11296.01,"text":"學校組織因為少了一個班"},{"start":11296.01,"end":11298.01,"text":"結果他設組呢"},{"start":11298.01,"end":11300.01,"text":"結果他大量減組"},{"start":11300.01,"end":11302.01,"text":"這些能不能夠跟地方政府"},{"start":11302.01,"end":11304.01,"text":"溝通讓他變動不要這麼大"},{"start":11304.01,"end":11306.01,"text":"因為他的所有行政事務還是在"},{"start":11306.01,"end":11308.01,"text":"類似這一些有5個項目"},{"start":11308.01,"end":11310.01,"text":"會後我們給委員"},{"start":11310.01,"end":11312.01,"text":"另外專職化也考慮到"},{"start":11312.01,"end":11314.01,"text":"不要一定要配置"},{"start":11314.01,"end":11316.01,"text":"正式公務員有沒有可能"},{"start":11316.01,"end":11318.01,"text":"因為不是設組長"},{"start":11318.01,"end":11320.01,"text":"他是設人力的專職化"},{"start":11320.01,"end":11322.01,"text":"能不能夠用契約禁用"},{"start":11322.01,"end":11324.01,"text":"等等這些都因為涉及到"},{"start":11324.01,"end":11326.01,"text":"地方政府整體運用人力"},{"start":11326.01,"end":11328.01,"text":"那我們也覺得是一個新時代"},{"start":11328.01,"end":11330.01,"text":"比較先進的做法"},{"start":11330.01,"end":11332.01,"text":"但這五項的精神"},{"start":11332.01,"end":11334.01,"text":"可能要跟地方政府或有關單位"},{"start":11334.01,"end":11336.01,"text":"包含人力單位"},{"start":11336.01,"end":11338.01,"text":"做比較完整的溝通"},{"start":11338.01,"end":11340.01,"text":"相關的進度會持續跟委員匯報"},{"start":11340.01,"end":11342.01,"text":"好謝謝署長這麼清楚的說明"},{"start":11342.01,"end":11344.01,"text":"我想我們都知道正義的點在哪裡"},{"start":11344.01,"end":11346.01,"text":"尤其是才華把新版"},{"start":11346.01,"end":11348.01,"text":"實施之後其實非常多的"},{"start":11348.01,"end":11350.01,"text":"錢到的地方去"},{"start":11350.01,"end":11352.01,"text":"我先預告我認為如果你們"},{"start":11352.01,"end":11354.01,"text":"在這件事情上沒有把態度說清楚"},{"start":11354.01,"end":11356.01,"text":"到底這些新增的原而"},{"start":11356.01,"end":11358.01,"text":"編制裡面包含你剛剛說"},{"start":11358.01,"end":11360.01,"text":"不管是說副組長也好還是相關契約的範本也好"},{"start":11360.01,"end":11362.01,"text":"到底用什麼樣的方法"},{"start":11362.01,"end":11364.01,"text":"聘請這些行政專職進來"},{"start":11364.01,"end":11366.01,"text":"我希望教育部的態度要清楚"},{"start":11366.01,"end":11368.01,"text":"到底錢是地方政府出的"},{"start":11368.01,"end":11370.01,"text":"還是你們出的因為我們知道國教系統"},{"start":11370.01,"end":11372.01,"text":"有非常多隸屬地方政府"},{"start":11372.01,"end":11374.01,"text":"我不希望在選舉這一年到時候"},{"start":11374.01,"end":11376.01,"text":"很多地方政府因為自己不願意"},{"start":11376.01,"end":11378.01,"text":"編列相關的預算"},{"start":11378.01,"end":11380.01,"text":"不願意有所承擔"},{"start":11380.01,"end":11382.01,"text":"要甩鍋丟包回來教育部"},{"start":11382.01,"end":11384.01,"text":"就如同之前三張EQ一樣"},{"start":11384.01,"end":11386.01,"text":"所以我先提醒這件事情"},{"start":11386.01,"end":11388.01,"text":"也期待國教署跟我們辦公室比較明確"},{"start":11388.01,"end":11390.01,"text":"剛剛署長您所說的五項回覆"},{"start":11390.01,"end":11392.01,"text":"以上謝謝"},{"start":11392.01,"end":11394.01,"text":"接下來署長暫時"},{"start":11394.01,"end":11396.01,"text":"再停一下這邊還是跟你有關"},{"start":11396.01,"end":11398.01,"text":"再來就關於偏鄉施資的部分"},{"start":11398.01,"end":11400.01,"text":"我們要謝謝部長之前到"},{"start":11400.01,"end":11402.01,"text":"TFT參加了"},{"start":11402.01,"end":11404.01,"text":"一個所謂進潤式"},{"start":11404.01,"end":11406.01,"text":"也就是所謂的"},{"start":11405.8,"end":11407.8,"text":"偏遠地區學校學士"},{"start":11407.8,"end":11409.8,"text":"後學分班甚至各式各樣"},{"start":11409.8,"end":11411.8,"text":"課程規劃的進度"},{"start":11411.8,"end":11413.8,"text":"當時我們在講說偏遠地區"},{"start":11413.8,"end":11415.8,"text":"學校的學士後"},{"start":11415.8,"end":11417.8,"text":"學分班開班很少"},{"start":11417.8,"end":11419.8,"text":"報名人數也相對少可是感謝"},{"start":11419.8,"end":11421.8,"text":"教育部在去年擴大辦理"},{"start":11421.8,"end":11423.8,"text":"之後目前我們看到開班"},{"start":11423.8,"end":11425.8,"text":"人數都是過去的二到三倍"},{"start":11425.8,"end":11427.8,"text":"確實看見實務上的"},{"start":11427.8,"end":11429.8,"text":"需求也謝謝教育部願意開班"},{"start":11429.8,"end":11431.8,"text":"那我想問關於今年的"},{"start":11431.8,"end":11433.8,"text":"部分我們什麼進度的規劃"},{"start":11433.8,"end":11435.8,"text":"跟過去不一樣的做法"},{"start":11435.8,"end":11437.8,"text":"或是更積極的回應地方老師的需求"},{"start":11437.8,"end":11439.8,"text":"這個可不可以請部長來說明一下"},{"start":11439.8,"end":11441.8,"text":"我想我們謝謝委員關心"},{"start":11441.8,"end":11443.8,"text":"偏鄉的教育品質"},{"start":11443.8,"end":11445.8,"text":"包括施資的來源"},{"start":11445.8,"end":11447.8,"text":"我們確實在偏鄉地區裡邊"},{"start":11447.8,"end":11449.8,"text":"我們不僅是開學士後學分班"},{"start":11449.8,"end":11451.8,"text":"我們現在還開專班"},{"start":11451.8,"end":11453.8,"text":"然後這個用"},{"start":11453.8,"end":11455.8,"text":"線上的寒暑假"},{"start":11455.8,"end":11457.8,"text":"因為我們非常清楚"},{"start":11457.8,"end":11459.8,"text":"偏鄉的這些老師待理待客老師"},{"start":11459.8,"end":11461.8,"text":"他們沒有辦法在"},{"start":11461.8,"end":11463.8,"text":"一般的一個上課日裡邊"},{"start":11463.8,"end":11465.8,"text":"夜間來上課"},{"start":11465.8,"end":11467.8,"text":"所以我們大概有更多的"},{"start":11467.8,"end":11469.8,"text":"除了有專班"},{"start":11469.8,"end":11471.8,"text":"像原住民地區我們開的原住民的一個"},{"start":11471.8,"end":11473.8,"text":"公會專班"},{"start":11473.8,"end":11475.8,"text":"像有一些Steam我們也從"},{"start":11475.8,"end":11477.8,"text":"請師大開這一個"},{"start":11477.8,"end":11479.8,"text":"公教的這一些"},{"start":11479.8,"end":11481.8,"text":"Steam的這些專班"},{"start":11481.8,"end":11483.8,"text":"然後對偏鄉的我們"},{"start":11483.8,"end":11485.8,"text":"除了有學士後專班以外"},{"start":11485.8,"end":11487.8,"text":"我們還有來自偏鄉的這個"},{"start":11487.8,"end":11489.8,"text":"特別對金門馬祖澎湖"},{"start":11489.8,"end":11491.8,"text":"我們也開專班"},{"start":11491.8,"end":11493.8,"text":"也用線上的來學習"},{"start":11493.8,"end":11495.8,"text":"我們基本上鼓勵這個"},{"start":11495.8,"end":11497.8,"text":"試培單位盡量用線上的一個課"},{"start":11497.8,"end":11499.8,"text":"然後實務操作"},{"start":11499.8,"end":11501.8,"text":"就利用寒暑假"},{"start":11501.8,"end":11503.8,"text":"讓這些真正對台灣教育"},{"start":11503.8,"end":11505.8,"text":"人才培育有熱情的這些年輕老師"},{"start":11505.8,"end":11507.8,"text":"能夠沿他們的夢"},{"start":11507.8,"end":11509.8,"text":"也能夠一起來守護台灣的教育"},{"start":11509.8,"end":11511.8,"text":"好謝謝部長說明的非常清楚"},{"start":11511.8,"end":11513.8,"text":"確實在去年小教報考人數"},{"start":11513.8,"end":11515.8,"text":"就變多了"},{"start":11515.8,"end":11517.8,"text":"那目前我知道可是因為中教的報考人數"},{"start":11517.8,"end":11519.8,"text":"仍然寥寥可數"},{"start":11519.8,"end":11521.8,"text":"我知道教育部今年有放寬說"},{"start":11521.8,"end":11523.8,"text":"只要四個學期就可以報名"},{"start":11523.8,"end":11525.8,"text":"可是因為小教現在還是要六個學期"},{"start":11525.8,"end":11527.8,"text":"我當然知道民間團體有他們的倡議"},{"start":11527.8,"end":11529.8,"text":"但我想我就簡單的說請教育部"},{"start":11529.8,"end":11531.8,"text":"帶回去研議有沒有機會小教"},{"start":11531.8,"end":11533.8,"text":"從六學期一樣改成四學期"},{"start":11533.8,"end":11535.8,"text":"當然我知道你們認為現在"},{"start":11535.8,"end":11537.8,"text":"小教已經人滿為患也許不需要"},{"start":11537.8,"end":11539.8,"text":"但我想你們還是可以回去考慮一下"},{"start":11539.8,"end":11541.8,"text":"第二個要問的是部長關於"},{"start":11541.8,"end":11543.8,"text":"之前部長也非常喜歡非常在意的是"},{"start":11543.8,"end":11545.8,"text":"教學實作導向的師資培育"},{"start":11545.8,"end":11547.8,"text":"實施辦計畫"},{"start":11547.8,"end":11549.8,"text":"我知道你們有計畫在推進跟進行"},{"start":11549.8,"end":11551.8,"text":"我也想要確定今年的進度大方向"},{"start":11551.8,"end":11553.8,"text":"是不是會後可以給我們一個報告"},{"start":11553.8,"end":11555.8,"text":"因為時間有限我就不讓部長"},{"start":11555.8,"end":11557.8,"text":"在這裡多說可以嗎"},{"start":11557.8,"end":11559.8,"text":"但是我希望相關的同仁"},{"start":11559.8,"end":11561.8,"text":"要協助部長積極推進這件事情"},{"start":11561.8,"end":11563.8,"text":"因為部長也非常在意"},{"start":11563.8,"end":11565.8,"text":"跟DFT等等的這些結合這個"},{"start":11565.8,"end":11567.8,"text":"我想這個是非常有價值的"},{"start":11567.8,"end":11569.8,"text":"我們也看到國際的經驗"},{"start":11569.8,"end":11571.8,"text":"所以我想它會變成我們"},{"start":11571.8,"end":11573.8,"text":"另外的一個實施培育的重點"},{"start":11573.8,"end":11575.8,"text":"也許也比較適合現在現場的"},{"start":11575.8,"end":11577.8,"text":"實務困境很多"},{"start":11577.8,"end":11579.8,"text":"如果老師們邊做邊學"},{"start":11579.8,"end":11581.8,"text":"這一些年輕畢業的學生"},{"start":11581.8,"end":11583.8,"text":"他們充滿對教育的熱情"},{"start":11583.8,"end":11585.8,"text":"數量非常大"},{"start":11585.8,"end":11587.8,"text":"我們希望他們能夠投入"},{"start":11587.8,"end":11589.8,"text":"接下來謝謝部長"},{"start":11589.8,"end":11591.8,"text":"接下來問這個關於久任獎金的部分"},{"start":11591.8,"end":11593.8,"text":"因為已經開始發放了"},{"start":11593.8,"end":11595.8,"text":"也謝謝署長之前"},{"start":11595.8,"end":11597.8,"text":"國家署署長這邊願意放寬認定"},{"start":11597.8,"end":11599.8,"text":"獎金請領資格"},{"start":11599.8,"end":11601.8,"text":"可是當我們在細部盤點之後"},{"start":11601.8,"end":11603.8,"text":"發現久任獎金還是有一些問題"},{"start":11603.8,"end":11605.8,"text":"那我認為應該沒有辦法"},{"start":11605.8,"end":11607.8,"text":"在今天質詢台上給我回覆"},{"start":11607.8,"end":11609.8,"text":"可是我還是要把問題提出來"},{"start":11609.8,"end":11611.8,"text":"拜託部長甚至請關心的委員一起來關心"},{"start":11611.8,"end":11613.8,"text":"來偏鄉教育獎金"},{"start":11613.8,"end":11615.8,"text":"現在發現幾個困境"},{"start":11615.8,"end":11617.8,"text":"第一個 任職的同為偏鄉"},{"start":11617.8,"end":11619.8,"text":"可是他跑到不同學校去了"},{"start":11619.8,"end":11621.8,"text":"可能沒有辦法請領"},{"start":11621.8,"end":11623.8,"text":"第二個 任職的同為偏鄉"},{"start":11623.8,"end":11625.8,"text":"可是跑到不同縣市去了"},{"start":11625.8,"end":11627.8,"text":"也沒有辦法請領"},{"start":11627.8,"end":11629.8,"text":"第三個 現在的狀況是這樣喔"},{"start":11629.8,"end":11633.8,"text":"你看 公立學校的附設幼兒園可以支領"},{"start":11633.8,"end":11636.8,"text":"可是偏鄉的公立幼兒園沒有辦法支領"},{"start":11636.8,"end":11639.8,"text":"第四個 可能是我們吳立華委員也會關心的"},{"start":11639.8,"end":11642.8,"text":"目前有非常多族語的老師"},{"start":11642.8,"end":11645.8,"text":"還有新著名語言的支援老師"},{"start":11645.8,"end":11647.8,"text":"他可能長期在一個偏鄉"},{"start":11647.8,"end":11649.8,"text":"支援這些母語的教學"},{"start":11649.8,"end":11652.8,"text":"但是他可能是因為待客的性質"},{"start":11652.8,"end":11654.8,"text":"或是原本不在偏鄉條例裡面"},{"start":11654.8,"end":11658.8,"text":"所以他完全沒有辦法支領這個偏鄉久任獎金"},{"start":11658.8,"end":11662.8,"text":"我們想要在第一線師資匯法的當下"},{"start":11662.8,"end":11664.8,"text":"跟署長跟部長反應"},{"start":11664.8,"end":11666.8,"text":"我們有沒有機會召開相關會議"},{"start":11666.8,"end":11669.8,"text":"去把這些樣態都盤點完"},{"start":11669.8,"end":11672.8,"text":"然後有沒有機會在預算可支應的情況下"},{"start":11672.8,"end":11674.8,"text":"更加的開放"},{"start":11674.8,"end":11676.8,"text":"讓這些久任的偏鄉老師"},{"start":11676.8,"end":11680.8,"text":"都可以實質的受到這些獎金的鼓勵"},{"start":11680.8,"end":11682.8,"text":"來 署長"},{"start":11682.64,"end":11683.64,"text":"謝謝委員關心"},{"start":11683.64,"end":11686.64,"text":"我想我們目前委員所關心的幾個樣態"},{"start":11686.64,"end":11688.64,"text":"我們基本上都已經"},{"start":11688.64,"end":11690.64,"text":"法律都已經改變了"},{"start":11690.64,"end":11691.64,"text":"也就是說"},{"start":11691.64,"end":11693.64,"text":"沒有 沒有 部長 我剛剛講的都沒有的"},{"start":11693.64,"end":11694.64,"text":"我剛剛講的就是沒有 我才講出來"},{"start":11695.8,"end":11696.8,"text":"真的 部長"},{"start":11696.8,"end":11697.8,"text":"剛剛委員報告"},{"start":11697.8,"end":11698.8,"text":"剛剛部長的意思是說"},{"start":11698.8,"end":11701.8,"text":"在部長的理念跟3月5號的文都可以處理"},{"start":11701.8,"end":11702.8,"text":"但是有一些認定"},{"start":11702.8,"end":11704.8,"text":"因為在細節的操作面"},{"start":11704.8,"end":11706.8,"text":"是不是容我把剛才講的公立幼兒園"},{"start":11706.8,"end":11707.8,"text":"不是婦幼"},{"start":11707.8,"end":11710.8,"text":"以及剛才主委老師他的身份認定"},{"start":11710.8,"end":11712.8,"text":"這會涉及到地方政府可能在認定上"},{"start":11712.8,"end":11713.8,"text":"他的權限"},{"start":11713.8,"end":11715.8,"text":"他會認為他有到那麼大嗎"},{"start":11715.8,"end":11716.8,"text":"這個由我們來跟他開會"},{"start":11716.8,"end":11717.8,"text":"開完幾個個案之後"},{"start":11717.8,"end":11719.8,"text":"我們把它變成問題彙編"},{"start":11719.8,"end":11720.8,"text":"就可以全國通用"},{"start":11720.8,"end":11721.8,"text":"你講到關鍵"},{"start":11721.8,"end":11723.8,"text":"那問題彙編什麼時候要開始修訂"},{"start":11724.28,"end":11726.28,"text":"問題彙編現在是逐期可以公佈"},{"start":11726.28,"end":11728.28,"text":"我們每半個月會公佈一次"},{"start":11728.28,"end":11729.28,"text":"因為最近這個新制度"},{"start":11729.28,"end":11730.28,"text":"部長很關心"},{"start":11730.28,"end":11733.28,"text":"希望能夠盡量照顧多一點的我們的夥伴"},{"start":11733.28,"end":11737.28,"text":"所以3月5號那個文已經非常的放寬並且授權"},{"start":11737.28,"end":11740.28,"text":"但是認定上怕地方政府還怕有致案"},{"start":11740.28,"end":11741.28,"text":"所以我們會定期召開"},{"start":11741.28,"end":11744.28,"text":"每15天會公佈一個新版的QA"},{"start":11744.28,"end":11747.28,"text":"同時也請副本給居然文化委員會所有委員"},{"start":11747.28,"end":11748.28,"text":"包含辦公室"},{"start":11748.28,"end":11749.28,"text":"我認為偏鄉老師這些部分"},{"start":11749.28,"end":11751.28,"text":"非常多委員會關心"},{"start":11751.28,"end":11752.28,"text":"為什麼要這樣講"},{"start":11752.28,"end":11754.28,"text":"我們當時立這個九月偏鄉獎金"},{"start":11754.28,"end":11757.28,"text":"我們到底在意的是穩定師資"},{"start":11757.28,"end":11759.28,"text":"指的到底是指整體的偏鄉師資"},{"start":11759.28,"end":11760.28,"text":"還是個別學校"},{"start":11760.28,"end":11763.28,"text":"當時的版本比較看起來是照顧個別學校"},{"start":11763.28,"end":11765.28,"text":"但我認為在時過境遷"},{"start":11765.28,"end":11766.28,"text":"這麼多年之後"},{"start":11766.28,"end":11769.28,"text":"其實是各所有整體偏鄉的師資穩定"},{"start":11769.28,"end":11770.28,"text":"這件事情變得非常非常重要"},{"start":11770.28,"end":11772.28,"text":"謝謝部長跟署長"},{"start":11772.28,"end":11773.28,"text":"好最後一個題目"},{"start":11773.28,"end":11776.28,"text":"今年是實驗教育修法"},{"start":11776.28,"end":11778.28,"text":"三法上路已經十年了"},{"start":11778.28,"end":11783.28,"text":"那有越來越多的學生走出所謂的主流體制"},{"start":11783.28,"end":11787.28,"text":"但我認為所有進到所謂實驗教育三法"},{"start":11787.28,"end":11788.28,"text":"不管是自學"},{"start":11788.28,"end":11789.28,"text":"個人自學"},{"start":11789.28,"end":11790.28,"text":"機構自學"},{"start":11790.28,"end":11791.28,"text":"還是團體自學"},{"start":11791.28,"end":11793.28,"text":"有非常多的困境"},{"start":11793.28,"end":11795.28,"text":"都已經在十年後開始浮現了"},{"start":11796.9,"end":11797.9,"text":"我等署長講完"},{"start":11797.9,"end":11798.9,"text":"我怕部長沒有聽到我講的"},{"start":11799.92,"end":11801.92,"text":"好很多困境浮現包含了第一個"},{"start":11801.92,"end":11805.92,"text":"很多縣市政府他們本來有很多空出來的教室"},{"start":11805.92,"end":11809.92,"text":"跟場地應該要優先提供給這些自學機構申請"},{"start":11809.92,"end":11811.92,"text":"但是很多地方政府置之不理"},{"start":11811.92,"end":11814.92,"text":"他們不友善的不接受這些申請"},{"start":11814.92,"end":11815.92,"text":"非常可惜"},{"start":11815.92,"end":11818.92,"text":"再來很多地方政府面對不同的機構之間"},{"start":11818.92,"end":11819.92,"text":"有大小眼"},{"start":11819.92,"end":11820.92,"text":"我們也不知道為什麼"},{"start":11820.92,"end":11822.92,"text":"例如說對公辦公營或是公辦民營"},{"start":11822.92,"end":11823.92,"text":"完全態度不同"},{"start":11823.92,"end":11827.92,"text":"接下來就是我們在特教法跟學復法修法完之後"},{"start":11827.92,"end":11830.92,"text":"有非常多自學機構裡面的老師跟家長"},{"start":11830.92,"end":11832.92,"text":"遇到孩子沒有特教的需求"},{"start":11832.92,"end":11833.92,"text":"跟輔導的需求"},{"start":11833.92,"end":11836.92,"text":"完全沒有辦法在這個體制裡面受到照顧"},{"start":11836.92,"end":11838.92,"text":"我認為十年前很多人認為"},{"start":11838.92,"end":11840.92,"text":"走進實驗教育的小孩叫做體制外"},{"start":11840.92,"end":11841.92,"text":"錯"},{"start":11841.92,"end":11844.92,"text":"我希望從現在開始大家重新去想一個念頭"},{"start":11844.92,"end":11847.92,"text":"就是實驗教育三法所照顧的都是我們的孩子"},{"start":11847.92,"end":11849.92,"text":"這些孩子因為有法"},{"start":11849.92,"end":11851.92,"text":"他們都叫體制內"},{"start":11851.92,"end":11852.92,"text":"所以認為既然是體制內"},{"start":11852.92,"end":11854.92,"text":"在十年後的今天"},{"start":11854.92,"end":11857.92,"text":"我們應該要開啟修法的座談會跟討論"},{"start":11857.92,"end":11859.92,"text":"這個部分我要先請提醒部長"},{"start":11859.92,"end":11862.92,"text":"我們來看一下實驗教育人數逆勢成長"},{"start":11862.92,"end":11865.92,"text":"在學生總數五年少了27萬的同時"},{"start":11865.92,"end":11868.92,"text":"有越來越多人走出校園"},{"start":11868.92,"end":11871.92,"text":"走到實驗教育三法所照顧的機構裡面"},{"start":11871.92,"end":11873.92,"text":"這件事情我認為非同小可"},{"start":11873.92,"end":11878.92,"text":"尤其輔導資源跟特教資源都照顧不了這些小孩"},{"start":11878.92,"end":11880.92,"text":"我認為這是我們要檢討的部分"},{"start":11880.92,"end":11882.92,"text":"我知道部長今天應該沒有辦法回答"},{"start":11882.92,"end":11883.92,"text":"那我就簡單說到這邊"},{"start":11883.92,"end":11885.92,"text":"我希望後續教育部可以開啟修法的討論"},{"start":11885.92,"end":11887.92,"text":"我們辦公室也會實質的推進"},{"start":11887.92,"end":11889.92,"text":"想聽一下部長的態度"},{"start":11890.64,"end":11892.64,"text":"我想謝謝委員關心"},{"start":11892.64,"end":11895.64,"text":"實驗教育三法確實它是一個民主的象徵"},{"start":11895.64,"end":11898.64,"text":"就是說我們過去單一的一個思維"},{"start":11898.64,"end":11900.64,"text":"我們民主本來就是多元"},{"start":11900.64,"end":11902.64,"text":"所以我們因應這個"},{"start":11902.64,"end":11906.64,"text":"所謂的個別差異能夠因材施教"},{"start":11906.64,"end":11908.64,"text":"我想實驗三法就"},{"start":11908.64,"end":11910.64,"text":"它某種程度上補助"},{"start":11910.95,"end":11912.95,"text":"等於說在輔助這一個補助"},{"start":11914.41,"end":11919.41,"text":"應該是說它照顧了不同學習樣態的家庭跟孩子的需求"},{"start":11919.41,"end":11921.41,"text":"能夠兼顧到個人需求"},{"start":11921.41,"end":11924.41,"text":"對而且這個個人需求我認為不再那麼個人"},{"start":11924.41,"end":11927.41,"text":"你看這個數字就知道其實非常非常的明顯"},{"start":11927.41,"end":11929.41,"text":"接下來這一題我覺得很難"},{"start":11929.41,"end":11932.41,"text":"但是我要告訴部長現在教育部面對的困境是這個"},{"start":11932.41,"end":11934.41,"text":"就是台語沉浸幼兒園的問題"},{"start":11934.41,"end":11937.41,"text":"我們來看一下我們發現了在教育部的很多座位上"},{"start":11937.41,"end":11938.41,"text":"其實非常的消極"},{"start":11938.41,"end":11940.41,"text":"那我們辦公室一直在想"},{"start":11940.41,"end":11941.41,"text":"我們不是只有提出問題"},{"start":11941.41,"end":11944.41,"text":"我們也很試著很想跟教育部一起努力提出解方"},{"start":11944.41,"end":11947.41,"text":"那我們就找了客委會來討論"},{"start":11947.41,"end":11949.41,"text":"而且請教了現場的專家學者來下一張"},{"start":11949.41,"end":11952.41,"text":"我們辦公室就開了這個座談會"},{"start":11952.41,"end":11955.41,"text":"我們邀請了客委會來告訴我們現在呢"},{"start":11955.41,"end":11957.41,"text":"客委會他們的做法是什麼呢"},{"start":11957.41,"end":11959.41,"text":"來客委會的做法我們來看下一張"},{"start":11960.85,"end":11961.85,"text":"關於教保員的部分呢"},{"start":11961.85,"end":11962.85,"text":"在幼兒園的部分"},{"start":11962.85,"end":11965.85,"text":"客委會他們就要求教保員的語言門檻"},{"start":11965.85,"end":11968.85,"text":"必須要在客語中高級以上能力"},{"start":11968.85,"end":11970.85,"text":"但是在台語幼兒園完全沒有"},{"start":11970.85,"end":11971.85,"text":"那在教保員的培訓機制呢"},{"start":11971.85,"end":11973.85,"text":"客委會有一套機制非常的完整"},{"start":11973.85,"end":11975.85,"text":"可是我們看到台語的部分完全沒有"},{"start":11975.85,"end":11976.85,"text":"只有沿襲"},{"start":11976.85,"end":11977.85,"text":"再來呢"},{"start":11977.85,"end":11978.85,"text":"語言陪伴的制度呢"},{"start":11978.85,"end":11980.85,"text":"台語的部分是顧問制"},{"start":11980.85,"end":11981.85,"text":"而且不可以入班"},{"start":11981.85,"end":11984.85,"text":"可是客委會他從中央到地方都有專業輔導團"},{"start":11984.85,"end":11986.85,"text":"甚至有客語陪伴員"},{"start":11986.85,"end":11988.85,"text":"還有教師互助社群"},{"start":11988.85,"end":11990.85,"text":"再來資訊獲取的管道呢"},{"start":11990.85,"end":11992.85,"text":"目前台語幼兒園的老師跟教保員告訴我們"},{"start":11992.85,"end":11994.85,"text":"分散他們要自己去找"},{"start":11994.85,"end":11996.85,"text":"可是我們看到客委會非常認真"},{"start":11996.85,"end":11998.85,"text":"做專屬網站跟一站式的資源"},{"start":11998.85,"end":12000.85,"text":"其實不是只有教育部現在面臨這個困境"},{"start":12000.85,"end":12003.85,"text":"我們問了原民會跟客委會跟教育部之間"},{"start":12003.85,"end":12005.85,"text":"你們在協助成立這些"},{"start":12005.85,"end":12008.85,"text":"所謂的國家語言的學校機制上"},{"start":12008.85,"end":12011.85,"text":"其實從來沒有一個平台去討論這個事情"},{"start":12011.85,"end":12013.85,"text":"那如果整體的環境"},{"start":12013.85,"end":12015.85,"text":"跟有越來越多的家長有意識"},{"start":12015.85,"end":12017.85,"text":"不論他是希望他的小孩進入"},{"start":12017.85,"end":12019.85,"text":"所謂客委會這客語的幼兒園"},{"start":12019.85,"end":12020.85,"text":"還是台語幼兒園"},{"start":12020.85,"end":12022.85,"text":"甚至我們未來"},{"start":12022.85,"end":12025.85,"text":"在部落裡頭會有非常多原住民語言的幼兒園"},{"start":12025.85,"end":12026.85,"text":"這些事情"},{"start":12026.85,"end":12029.85,"text":"如果我們的教育部跟客委會跟原民會"},{"start":12029.85,"end":12032.85,"text":"沒有一個好的經驗交流甚至成果分享"},{"start":12032.85,"end":12034.85,"text":"我認為在教育部這邊會依然可能"},{"start":12034.85,"end":12036.85,"text":"三五年後可能都會是同一個狀況"},{"start":12036.85,"end":12038.85,"text":"那我們辦公室也做了研究"},{"start":12038.85,"end":12039.85,"text":"做了做談"},{"start":12039.85,"end":12041.85,"text":"所以我想要快速給教育部幾個建議"},{"start":12041.85,"end":12043.85,"text":"我們辦公室也會持續的追蹤"},{"start":12043.85,"end":12045.85,"text":"第一個我們希望你們積極的跟客委會"},{"start":12045.85,"end":12047.85,"text":"已經有做出成效的原民會還有文化部"},{"start":12047.85,"end":12049.85,"text":"就國家語言的部分"},{"start":12049.85,"end":12050.85,"text":"進行經驗分享跟交流"},{"start":12050.85,"end":12053.85,"text":"第二個教育部如果沒有中央輔導團"},{"start":12053.85,"end":12056.85,"text":"以學術研究跟論述作為基底協助開發課程"},{"start":12056.85,"end":12058.85,"text":"模組教具教材輔導資源"},{"start":12058.85,"end":12061.85,"text":"我認為現場老師困境很大"},{"start":12061.85,"end":12063.85,"text":"還有教育部如何跟地方政府專家學者"},{"start":12063.85,"end":12066.85,"text":"研議成立地方輔導團還有陪伴員"},{"start":12066.85,"end":12069.85,"text":"再來台語教保資訊平台相關計畫的"},{"start":12069.85,"end":12071.85,"text":"一戰士網站現在依然是沒有的"},{"start":12071.85,"end":12072.85,"text":"講了這麼多"},{"start":12074.42,"end":12076.42,"text":"千頭萬緒我只是要告訴部長"},{"start":12076.42,"end":12078.42,"text":"我們不是只是來提出問題"},{"start":12078.42,"end":12080.42,"text":"我們也請教了客委會"},{"start":12080.42,"end":12082.42,"text":"謝謝客委會還有那個屏東大學的老師"},{"start":12082.42,"end":12084.42,"text":"給我們非常多好的建議"},{"start":12084.42,"end":12086.42,"text":"我這邊把這些建議交給部長"},{"start":12086.42,"end":12088.42,"text":"我想要請教一部積極去研議"},{"start":12088.42,"end":12090.42,"text":"三個月內給我們規劃報告可以嗎"},{"start":12091.43,"end":12093.43,"text":"這個資料我們可以再送教一部"},{"start":12093.43,"end":12095.43,"text":"我想是張同業提相關報告OK的"},{"start":12095.43,"end":12097.43,"text":"但是我用這個機會跟委員報告"},{"start":12097.43,"end":12099.43,"text":"我們從去年的9月開始"},{"start":12099.43,"end":12104.43,"text":"已經透過全國22個教育局處所長的會議裡邊"},{"start":12104.43,"end":12107.43,"text":"已經有宣示從幼兒園裡邊"},{"start":12107.43,"end":12112.43,"text":"從語言上的社區語言的共通性"},{"start":12112.43,"end":12116.43,"text":"開始不管是台語或者客語或者原住民語"},{"start":12116.43,"end":12118.43,"text":"就幼兒園裡邊"},{"start":12118.43,"end":12121.43,"text":"它變成一個老師很重要的一個"},{"start":12121.43,"end":12124.43,"text":"跟幼兒的教學裡邊很重要的一個"},{"start":12124.43,"end":12126.43,"text":"語言的一個界面"},{"start":12126.43,"end":12130.43,"text":"我們也請這個國教署不定期的到"},{"start":12130.43,"end":12133.43,"text":"各地方學校的幼兒園去訪視"},{"start":12133.43,"end":12137.43,"text":"希望這個本土語言國家語言的推動"},{"start":12137.43,"end":12140.43,"text":"能夠從幼兒園就開始全面來推動"},{"start":12140.43,"end":12142.43,"text":"我知道時間有限再給我三四秒"},{"start":12142.43,"end":12143.43,"text":"部長你剛剛講的我完全認同"},{"start":12143.43,"end":12146.43,"text":"你在局處會議上用宣示的方法"},{"start":12146.43,"end":12148.43,"text":"但所有老師要動起來"},{"start":12148.43,"end":12149.43,"text":"教保員要動起來"},{"start":12149.43,"end":12151.43,"text":"他就需要我剛剛講的這些事情"},{"start":12151.43,"end":12152.43,"text":"他需要教材"},{"start":12152.43,"end":12153.43,"text":"他需要資源"},{"start":12153.43,"end":12154.43,"text":"他需要網站"},{"start":12154.43,"end":12155.43,"text":"他需要陪伴"},{"start":12155.43,"end":12156.43,"text":"他需要相關的輔導機制"},{"start":12156.43,"end":12160.43,"text":"協助他去落實部長的宣示跟交代"},{"start":12160.43,"end":12162.43,"text":"所以部長這邊該做的事情我們一起努力"},{"start":12162.43,"end":12166.43,"text":"是 我想這個輔導團裡邊包含許多教材的開發"},{"start":12166.43,"end":12168.43,"text":"我們當然都一直持續在做"},{"start":12168.43,"end":12173.43,"text":"地方現在也有一定程度的做得非常不錯"},{"start":12173.43,"end":12176.43,"text":"像去年全國舉辦的這個本土語言"},{"start":12176.43,"end":12177.43,"text":"本土的教材的一個開發"},{"start":12177.43,"end":12179.43,"text":"我也到現場去看到"},{"start":12179.43,"end":12181.43,"text":"各縣市其實在這個部分"},{"start":12181.43,"end":12186.43,"text":"他們還真的是都做得有許多的具體的一個成果"},{"start":12186.43,"end":12190.43,"text":"我想會後我們除了委員的建議我們來深化以外"},{"start":12190.43,"end":12192.43,"text":"有一些東西我想我也跟"},{"start":12192.43,"end":12195.43,"text":"我們會後也來跟委員做一個更詳細的報告"},{"start":12195.43,"end":12197.43,"text":"好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席"},{"start":12197.43,"end":12199.43,"text":"好 謝謝陳培雲委員"},{"start":12199.43,"end":12201.43,"text":"請部長回座"},{"start":12201.43,"end":12204.43,"text":"接下來有請吳佩奕委員"},{"start":12209.64,"end":12212.64,"text":"好 謝謝 我請教育部政部長"},{"start":12212.64,"end":12213.64,"text":"好 請政部長"},{"start":12218.67,"end":12219.67,"text":"好 部長好"},{"start":12219.67,"end":12222.67,"text":"剛剛陳培雲委員提到這個實驗教育三法上路之後"},{"start":12222.67,"end":12224.67,"text":"我們要來一個通盤檢討"},{"start":12224.67,"end":12226.67,"text":"我相當的支持也相當有感"},{"start":12226.67,"end":12228.67,"text":"因為我過去在擔任市議員的時候"},{"start":12228.67,"end":12233.67,"text":"就時常跟像我們這種非學型態的實驗教育的團體"},{"start":12233.67,"end":12235.67,"text":"家長或者學生團體都有"},{"start":12235.67,"end":12238.67,"text":"他們時常遇到真的很多的這些困擾"},{"start":12238.67,"end":12241.67,"text":"例如說在學校裡面跟學校來談場地"},{"start":12241.67,"end":12244.67,"text":"常常有時候都需要來協助來協調"},{"start":12245.67,"end":12250.67,"text":"甚至曾經比如說這個租金要幫忙負擔土地稅等等的問題"},{"start":12250.67,"end":12252.67,"text":"那麼像新府資源也是一樣"},{"start":12252.67,"end":12254.67,"text":"有些學生他們是沒有學籍的"},{"start":12254.67,"end":12256.67,"text":"或有些是掛在教育局的"},{"start":12256.67,"end":12258.67,"text":"那在新府資源的使用上面"},{"start":12258.67,"end":12260.67,"text":"有時候他們就會比較被忽略到"},{"start":12260.67,"end":12262.67,"text":"所以我覺得確實因為也上路"},{"start":12262.67,"end":12264.67,"text":"已經實務經驗這麼多年了"},{"start":12264.67,"end":12266.67,"text":"那我們針對學校型態、非學型態也好"},{"start":12266.67,"end":12269.67,"text":"就是各方類型的實驗教育的學生"},{"start":12269.67,"end":12273.67,"text":"我們能夠怎麼樣整體再來提供他們資源跟後盾"},{"start":12273.67,"end":12275.67,"text":"真的是可以整體來討論一下"},{"start":12275.67,"end":12277.67,"text":"那今天最主要幾個問題要跟部長討論"},{"start":12277.67,"end":12282.67,"text":"首先是因為前陣子因為林義雄先生"},{"start":12282.67,"end":12284.67,"text":"過去林齋血案的事件"},{"start":12284.67,"end":12286.67,"text":"重新被社會大眾看見"},{"start":12286.67,"end":12290.67,"text":"那社會上面發起一個叫轉型正義補課潮"},{"start":12290.67,"end":12293.67,"text":"那我收到很多人的反應說"},{"start":12293.67,"end":12297.67,"text":"很感謝教育部有一個轉型正義的補課專區"},{"start":12297.67,"end":12299.67,"text":"因為上面的資訊至少國人可以知道說"},{"start":12299.67,"end":12301.67,"text":"這個資訊是正確的"},{"start":12301.67,"end":12305.67,"text":"在資訊特別發達也變成說查證也需要花比較多的心力"},{"start":12305.67,"end":12306.67,"text":"所知道資訊正確"},{"start":12306.67,"end":12308.67,"text":"那很多人他是想要認識歷史"},{"start":12308.67,"end":12309.67,"text":"想要瞭解歷史"},{"start":12309.67,"end":12311.67,"text":"有一個管道有一個入口"},{"start":12311.67,"end":12312.67,"text":"讓他可以入門"},{"start":12312.67,"end":12315.67,"text":"那大家會自己再去挖掘更多的資料來閱讀"},{"start":12315.67,"end":12317.67,"text":"那麼事實上我們去回顧"},{"start":12317.67,"end":12320.67,"text":"教育部對轉型正義教育的推動"},{"start":12320.67,"end":12321.67,"text":"其實一直是關鍵角色"},{"start":12321.67,"end":12323.67,"text":"我們要轉型正義的工程"},{"start":12323.67,"end":12325.67,"text":"教育是重中之重"},{"start":12325.67,"end":12327.67,"text":"因為我們要真的去認識歷史"},{"start":12327.67,"end":12329.67,"text":"我們才能夠反省才能夠學習尊重"},{"start":12329.67,"end":12333.67,"text":"所以教育部我們從2000年以後開始推動人權教育"},{"start":12333.67,"end":12336.67,"text":"我們有國家轉型正義教育行動綱領"},{"start":12336.67,"end":12338.67,"text":"從2023至2026年的"},{"start":12338.67,"end":12341.67,"text":"同時我們也有教學諮詢網"},{"start":12341.67,"end":12343.67,"text":"我們針對轉型正義的教育人才庫"},{"start":12343.67,"end":12345.67,"text":"我們也有設置要點"},{"start":12345.67,"end":12348.67,"text":"這些都是等於是我們轉型正義教育的基礎工程"},{"start":12348.67,"end":12349.67,"text":"我覺得很重要"},{"start":12349.67,"end":12352.67,"text":"那也肯定教育部我們也希望可以繼續來做"},{"start":12352.67,"end":12355.67,"text":"那針對轉型正義補課專區"},{"start":12355.67,"end":12357.67,"text":"我們目前上線的是兩個單元"},{"start":12357.67,"end":12359.67,"text":"一個是228一個是湯德章"},{"start":12359.67,"end":12364.67,"text":"那麼接下來4月7日是言論自由日"},{"start":12364.67,"end":12369.67,"text":"我們也會有鄭南榮的一個短影音的一個"},{"start":12369.67,"end":12373.67,"text":"言論自由日那天會公佈"},{"start":12373.67,"end":12377.67,"text":"好這個是我們教育部轉型正義補課專區的下一張"},{"start":12377.67,"end":12379.67,"text":"新的一張的課程"},{"start":12379.67,"end":12381.67,"text":"5月19號也會有"},{"start":12381.67,"end":12383.67,"text":"5月19號也有再一個課程"},{"start":12383.67,"end":12388.67,"text":"就是說我們會針對每一個月裡邊不同的一些"},{"start":12388.67,"end":12393.67,"text":"不管白色恐怖或者對個人的人權上造成的一個傷害"},{"start":12393.67,"end":12394.67,"text":"我們大概希望說"},{"start":12394.67,"end":12398.67,"text":"陳鵬講說自由全然不是自然發生的"},{"start":12398.67,"end":12403.67,"text":"那歷史我們可以原諒但是不能遺忘"},{"start":12403.67,"end":12405.67,"text":"那我想我這一個部分我們也希望"},{"start":12405.67,"end":12407.67,"text":"因為透過這個短影音"},{"start":12407.67,"end":12410.67,"text":"透過轉型正義的一個更積極全面的推動"},{"start":12410.67,"end":12413.67,"text":"希望我們國人能夠更珍惜我們的自由"},{"start":12413.67,"end":12415.67,"text":"台灣的自由跟民主"},{"start":12415.67,"end":12417.67,"text":"是因為回想真的相當不錯"},{"start":12417.67,"end":12420.67,"text":"那我們也需要這樣比較科普性質的教育"},{"start":12420.67,"end":12423.67,"text":"那就我所知這一次因為是事件引發的"},{"start":12423.67,"end":12427.67,"text":"所以說第一個課程上線的時候"},{"start":12427.67,"end":12428.67,"text":"也比較倉促一點"},{"start":12428.67,"end":12430.67,"text":"所以很感謝我們相關單位"},{"start":12430.67,"end":12433.67,"text":"我們承辦同仁大家都是全力的在拼"},{"start":12433.67,"end":12437.67,"text":"那我們有沒有針對這個轉型正義的補課專區"},{"start":12437.67,"end":12439.67,"text":"有一個中長程的規劃呢"},{"start":12439.67,"end":12441.67,"text":"字幕製作人陳鵬"},{"start":12441.2,"end":12443.2,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":12443.08,"end":12446.08,"text":"跟委員報告我們已經排到明年2月"},{"start":12446.08,"end":12449.08,"text":"也就是說那因為明年剛好228又是80週年"},{"start":12449.08,"end":12453.08,"text":"就是說我們大概在這個行動綱領裡面"},{"start":12453.08,"end":12455.08,"text":"到今年第一期結束嘛"},{"start":12455.08,"end":12458.08,"text":"我們明年事實上會請這個我們朱次長"},{"start":12458.08,"end":12461.08,"text":"現在會有一個一家從今年開始"},{"start":12461.08,"end":12464.08,"text":"等於有一個重點明年又有一個新的四年"},{"start":12464.08,"end":12466.08,"text":"但是今年成為一家市"},{"start":12466.08,"end":12468.08,"text":"雖然他是最後一年"},{"start":12468.08,"end":12471.08,"text":"我們有一系列的這些轉型正義的"},{"start":12471.08,"end":12473.08,"text":"一個一些課程"},{"start":12473.08,"end":12477.08,"text":"或者一些不遺餘子的大學裡邊"},{"start":12477.08,"end":12479.08,"text":"開始今年過去沒有"},{"start":12479.08,"end":12482.08,"text":"我們今年開始把大學的USR"},{"start":12482.08,"end":12487.08,"text":"包含大學的教學實驗計畫裡邊"},{"start":12487.08,"end":12489.08,"text":"已經也都call"},{"start":12489.08,"end":12492.08,"text":"希望老師在教學創新裡邊"},{"start":12492.08,"end":12495.08,"text":"或者USR大學能夠把這個轉型正義人權教育"},{"start":12495.08,"end":12497.08,"text":"也都能夠帶進來"},{"start":12497.08,"end":12500.08,"text":"那目前在USR裡邊已經有7所大學提出"},{"start":12500.08,"end":12502.08,"text":"這樣一個計畫"},{"start":12502.08,"end":12506.08,"text":"我想從大所接小所裡邊結合在地的地方"},{"start":12506.08,"end":12508.08,"text":"文史跟社會工作者"},{"start":12508.08,"end":12510.08,"text":"能夠把這些地圖"},{"start":12510.08,"end":12514.08,"text":"然後讓中小學能夠透過他們來協助"},{"start":12514.08,"end":12518.08,"text":"中小學的學生也都能夠進一步的去理解"},{"start":12518.08,"end":12520.08,"text":"我們這個歷史"},{"start":12520.08,"end":12522.08,"text":"好 部長我們很支持你們去推動"},{"start":12522.08,"end":12524.08,"text":"但你知道我長期關注嘛"},{"start":12524.08,"end":12526.08,"text":"所以我看了去年12月行政院"},{"start":12526.08,"end":12529.08,"text":"有一個轉型正義這個會報會議記錄"},{"start":12529.08,"end":12531.08,"text":"我們行政院人權處"},{"start":12531.08,"end":12532.08,"text":"就提出說"},{"start":12532.08,"end":12534.08,"text":"認為你們的業務繁重"},{"start":12534.08,"end":12536.08,"text":"認為你們的人力是有必要增加的"},{"start":12536.08,"end":12537.08,"text":"這個行政院"},{"start":12537.08,"end":12539.08,"text":"通常都是我們去跟行政院要人力"},{"start":12539.08,"end":12541.08,"text":"他說你這個太多了 不可以再加了"},{"start":12541.08,"end":12543.08,"text":"就很少行政院叫你們要增加人力"},{"start":12543.08,"end":12546.08,"text":"所以人力的部分我們有沒有相應的規劃呢"},{"start":12546.08,"end":12548.08,"text":"謝謝委員關心"},{"start":12548.08,"end":12550.08,"text":"確實我們做了非常多"},{"start":12550.08,"end":12552.08,"text":"包含教師課程教材的發展"},{"start":12552.08,"end":12554.08,"text":"包括校長的演習"},{"start":12554.08,"end":12557.08,"text":"包括我們看許多的這些轉型正義相關的影片"},{"start":12557.08,"end":12563.08,"text":"那也邀請行政院的這個委員"},{"start":12563.08,"end":12566.08,"text":"去現場跟我們指導"},{"start":12566.08,"end":12569.08,"text":"那我們現在也感謝他們看到我們"},{"start":12569.08,"end":12571.08,"text":"在有限人力做得還蠻積極的"},{"start":12571.08,"end":12573.08,"text":"所以我們現在"},{"start":12573.08,"end":12575.08,"text":"部長我們就是提醒人力的這個"},{"start":12575.08,"end":12577.08,"text":"人事總處在爭取"},{"start":12577.08,"end":12579.08,"text":"說希望能夠有增加人力"},{"start":12579.08,"end":12581.08,"text":"人力的調整要去進行"},{"start":12581.08,"end":12582.08,"text":"那我們也建議"},{"start":12582.08,"end":12585.08,"text":"就是因為我們這一次也有跟像228基金會來合作"},{"start":12585.08,"end":12587.08,"text":"我們也可以多來增加"},{"start":12587.08,"end":12589.08,"text":"跟像228紀念館國家人權館"},{"start":12589.08,"end":12591.08,"text":"這些專案的合作我覺得都很重要"},{"start":12591.08,"end":12593.08,"text":"然後朱志也是228基金會的董事"},{"start":12593.08,"end":12595.08,"text":"這個他們都長期在投入了"},{"start":12595.08,"end":12597.08,"text":"來去善用這些資源"},{"start":12597.08,"end":12599.08,"text":"我想也很重要"},{"start":12599.08,"end":12601.08,"text":"我們是展現一個態度就是說"},{"start":12601.08,"end":12603.08,"text":"我們在今年"},{"start":12603.08,"end":12605.08,"text":"在這個月裡面"},{"start":12605.08,"end":12606.08,"text":"應該上個月"},{"start":12606.08,"end":12608.08,"text":"我們教育部的部務會議"},{"start":12608.08,"end":12610.08,"text":"我也親自帶我們所有的一級主管到"},{"start":12610.08,"end":12613.08,"text":"景美的人權博物館裡面去開部務會議"},{"start":12613.08,"end":12615.08,"text":"也"},{"start":12616.06,"end":12620.06,"text":"同時也請這個受難者當事人"},{"start":12620.06,"end":12622.06,"text":"出來解說"},{"start":12622.06,"end":12624.06,"text":"那我想這也是展現說"},{"start":12624.06,"end":12626.06,"text":"我們教育部在未來轉型這根人權"},{"start":12626.06,"end":12628.06,"text":"教育這個我們一定會"},{"start":12628.06,"end":12630.06,"text":"全面的來"},{"start":12630.06,"end":12632.06,"text":"更積極的來推動"},{"start":12632.06,"end":12634.06,"text":"好那我們也支持教育部"},{"start":12634.06,"end":12636.06,"text":"繼續來推動"},{"start":12636.06,"end":12638.06,"text":"這個主持人謝謝"},{"start":12638.06,"end":12640.06,"text":"時間不是很夠但是我一定要跟部長討論"},{"start":12640.06,"end":12642.06,"text":"是專任輔導教師的權益"},{"start":12642.06,"end":12644.06,"text":"因為黃捷委員在總質詢的時候"},{"start":12644.06,"end":12646.06,"text":"也有跟部長您討論過"},{"start":12646.06,"end":12648.06,"text":"那當時這個您的回應"},{"start":12648.06,"end":12650.06,"text":"是說再請地方政府來"},{"start":12650.06,"end":12652.06,"text":"補貼"},{"start":12652.06,"end":12654.06,"text":"我認為這是不夠有心意"},{"start":12654.06,"end":12656.06,"text":"所以今天還是要討論一下"},{"start":12656.06,"end":12658.06,"text":"這個因為根據我們學生輔導法"},{"start":12658.06,"end":12660.06,"text":"我們專輔教師跟專業輔導人力"},{"start":12660.06,"end":12662.06,"text":"這個當然是守護我們校園心理健康"},{"start":12662.06,"end":12664.06,"text":"最重要的兩個防線"},{"start":12664.06,"end":12666.06,"text":"那上一週我們是在討論"},{"start":12666.06,"end":12668.06,"text":"審查這個叫學生衛生法"},{"start":12668.06,"end":12670.06,"text":"學校衛生法這時候也有提到"},{"start":12670.06,"end":12672.06,"text":"專輔人力的議題今天要講的是"},{"start":12672.06,"end":12674.06,"text":"專輔教師主要就是說"},{"start":12674.06,"end":12676.06,"text":"因為我們對教師"},{"start":12676.06,"end":12678.06,"text":"我們有一個標準是受課時數"},{"start":12678.06,"end":12680.06,"text":"所以我們可以去衡量去評估"},{"start":12680.06,"end":12682.06,"text":"例如他這個有沒有超過業務量"},{"start":12682.06,"end":12684.06,"text":"有沒有超時加急等等"},{"start":12684.06,"end":12686.06,"text":"但是專輔教師"},{"start":12686.06,"end":12688.06,"text":"他是用個案"},{"start":12688.06,"end":12690.06,"text":"他是用案量對個案進行處遇"},{"start":12690.06,"end":12692.06,"text":"是"},{"start":12692.06,"end":12694.06,"text":"那所以等於在目前你們對專輔教師的業務"},{"start":12694.06,"end":12696.06,"text":"你們有衡量標準嗎"},{"start":12696.06,"end":12698.06,"text":"你們衡量標準是什麼"},{"start":12698.06,"end":12700.06,"text":"應該我會講委員"},{"start":12700.06,"end":12702.06,"text":"我們目前其實是沒有標準的"},{"start":12702.06,"end":12704.06,"text":"我們確實在這個部分"},{"start":12704.06,"end":12706.06,"text":"所以沒有標準會造成什麼問題"},{"start":12706.06,"end":12708.06,"text":"你根本看不見專輔教師"},{"start":12708.06,"end":12710.06,"text":"他的辛勞"},{"start":12710.06,"end":12712.06,"text":"我連衡量評估的工具都沒有"},{"start":12712.06,"end":12714.06,"text":"那所以說呢"},{"start":12714.06,"end":12716.06,"text":"這個目前不管是輔導教師"},{"start":12716.06,"end":12718.06,"text":"教師團體或家長團體"},{"start":12718.06,"end":12720.06,"text":"都有提出一個訴求嘛"},{"start":12720.06,"end":12722.06,"text":"就是說我們的專輔教師能不能夠"},{"start":12722.06,"end":12724.06,"text":"比照特教"},{"start":12723.47,"end":12725.47,"text":"老師有特教加急"},{"start":12725.47,"end":12727.47,"text":"我們能不能夠有"},{"start":12727.47,"end":12729.47,"text":"專輔加急"},{"start":12729.47,"end":12731.47,"text":"這個部分呢"},{"start":12731.47,"end":12733.47,"text":"我想已經部長充分了解"},{"start":12733.47,"end":12735.47,"text":"這個問題了"},{"start":12735.47,"end":12737.47,"text":"我們有沒有我們可能會來開啟一個"},{"start":12737.47,"end":12739.47,"text":"討論"},{"start":12739.47,"end":12741.47,"text":"就是說你們找這個專業團體大家來討論說"},{"start":12741.47,"end":12743.47,"text":"這個到底是要怎麼樣改善"},{"start":12743.47,"end":12745.47,"text":"有關專輔教師確實怎麼樣去"},{"start":12745.47,"end":12747.47,"text":"讓他們有一個更大的支持"},{"start":12747.47,"end":12749.47,"text":"我想我們會來"},{"start":12749.47,"end":12751.47,"text":"會後會來找相關的人"},{"start":12751.47,"end":12753.47,"text":"這個要開會我們有沒有一個時間"},{"start":12757.65,"end":12759.65,"text":"這個"},{"start":12759.65,"end":12761.65,"text":"兩個月內我們就來開啟這個討論"},{"start":12761.65,"end":12763.65,"text":"好不好因為你們一定比我們"},{"start":12763.65,"end":12765.65,"text":"更了解實務上面遇到的"},{"start":12765.65,"end":12767.65,"text":"困難那這個你要"},{"start":12767.65,"end":12769.65,"text":"增加加急也好這都是要整體"},{"start":12769.65,"end":12771.65,"text":"互相來做評估的所以趕快"},{"start":12771.65,"end":12773.65,"text":"來開啟這個會議的討論那除了加"},{"start":12773.65,"end":12775.65,"text":"急以外還有一個比較具體"},{"start":12775.65,"end":12777.65,"text":"的事我們學校的這個"},{"start":12777.65,"end":12779.65,"text":"輔導主任是不是一定要"},{"start":12779.65,"end":12781.65,"text":"專輔老師來"},{"start":12781.65,"end":12783.65,"text":"兼任這個我們國民"},{"start":12783.65,"end":12785.65,"text":"教育法二十一條是規定說"},{"start":12785.65,"end":12787.65,"text":"輔導主任"},{"start":12788.45,"end":12790.45,"text":"有輔導熱誠及專業"},{"start":12790.45,"end":12792.45,"text":"職能的教師擔任學生"},{"start":12792.45,"end":12794.45,"text":"輔導法第九條學校輔導"},{"start":12794.45,"end":12796.45,"text":"主管依據輔導"},{"start":12796.45,"end":12798.45,"text":"專業專長者優先任用"},{"start":12798.45,"end":12800.45,"text":"實際上是你有"},{"start":12800.45,"end":12802.45,"text":"輔導教師證就可以"},{"start":12802.45,"end":12804.45,"text":"來擔任輔導主任才對"},{"start":12804.45,"end":12806.45,"text":"那唯一只有在高中"},{"start":12806.45,"end":12808.45,"text":"我們的高級中等教育法"},{"start":12808.45,"end":12810.45,"text":"二十條裡面有明定"},{"start":12810.45,"end":12812.45,"text":"說這個主任必須要專輔"},{"start":12812.45,"end":12814.45,"text":"教師來擔任"},{"start":12814.45,"end":12816.45,"text":"職好現在問題來了因為我這邊"},{"start":12816.45,"end":12818.45,"text":"收到了不只一所各縣市都有完全"},{"start":12818.45,"end":12820.45,"text":"中學來反應"},{"start":12820.45,"end":12822.45,"text":"因為學校實務狀況很多是"},{"start":12822.45,"end":12824.45,"text":"這可能署長可能知道他輔導老師可能就"},{"start":12824.45,"end":12826.45,"text":"只有兩位那你一定要專"},{"start":12826.45,"end":12828.45,"text":"輔導老師來才能擔任輔導主任"},{"start":12828.45,"end":12830.45,"text":"的話兩個人輪流一直在兼"},{"start":12830.45,"end":12832.45,"text":"主任等於這個行政職"},{"start":12832.45,"end":12834.45,"text":"他永遠這個是永遠"},{"start":12834.45,"end":12836.45,"text":"沒有辦法放下的那所以"},{"start":12836.45,"end":12838.45,"text":"他們說我們完全中學我的業務其實"},{"start":12838.45,"end":12840.45,"text":"包含了國中跟高中"},{"start":12840.45,"end":12842.45,"text":"那我們的法規的解釋其實"},{"start":12842.45,"end":12844.45,"text":"就我來看法規解釋你不定是"},{"start":12844.45,"end":12846.45,"text":"要比照高中的標準因為他也有國中"},{"start":12846.45,"end":12848.45,"text":"的業務存在"},{"start":12848.45,"end":12850.45,"text":"那麼完全中學"},{"start":12850.45,"end":12852.45,"text":"他是不是可以只要"},{"start":12852.45,"end":12854.45,"text":"是有輔導教師證"},{"start":12854.45,"end":12856.45,"text":"的這個老師就可以來"},{"start":12856.45,"end":12858.45,"text":"擔任輔導主任這個"},{"start":12858.45,"end":12860.45,"text":"部長過去有沒有聽聞過相關"},{"start":12860.45,"end":12862.45,"text":"的陳情謝謝"},{"start":12862.45,"end":12864.45,"text":"委員因為確實這一個問題"},{"start":12864.45,"end":12866.45,"text":"就剛才委員所說的"},{"start":12866.45,"end":12868.45,"text":"完全中學我們目前是"},{"start":12868.45,"end":12870.45,"text":"比照高級中學法的第二十條"},{"start":12870.45,"end":12872.45,"text":"那我們也這個法規"},{"start":12872.45,"end":12874.45,"text":"就是為了一個諮詢"},{"start":12874.45,"end":12876.45,"text":"大概也都是目前的態度"},{"start":12876.45,"end":12878.45,"text":"都是採用比照這個"},{"start":12878.45,"end":12880.45,"text":"高中的"},{"start":12880.45,"end":12882.45,"text":"教育的教育法這樣來"},{"start":12882.45,"end":12884.45,"text":"執行那我們是"},{"start":12884.45,"end":12886.45,"text":"這部長我看過你們所有"},{"start":12886.45,"end":12888.45,"text":"的會議記錄其實有專家"},{"start":12888.45,"end":12890.45,"text":"是有提出不同法律解釋"},{"start":12890.45,"end":12892.45,"text":"沒有認為說一定要用這個高中"},{"start":12892.45,"end":12894.45,"text":"這個高級"},{"start":12894.45,"end":12896.45,"text":"中等教育法來解釋所以"},{"start":12896.45,"end":12898.45,"text":"部長拜託一下因為我覺得這個"},{"start":12898.45,"end":12900.45,"text":"實務上如果我們可以替他解決這個"},{"start":12900.45,"end":12902.45,"text":"只要是法規允許的"},{"start":12902.45,"end":12904.45,"text":"範圍內甚至我看起來甚至不用"},{"start":12904.45,"end":12906.45,"text":"修法請你們來討論"},{"start":12906.45,"end":12908.45,"text":"一下好不好就實務的需求"},{"start":12908.45,"end":12910.45,"text":"跟法規解釋面來做"},{"start":12910.45,"end":12912.45,"text":"整體的評估我們希望就"},{"start":12912.45,"end":12914.45,"text":"我們現在不用修法的階段"},{"start":12914.45,"end":12916.45,"text":"你可以我們能夠提供給他們幫助的"},{"start":12916.45,"end":12918.45,"text":"盡量來協助因為真的現場的狀況"},{"start":12918.45,"end":12920.45,"text":"是負擔相當的大"},{"start":12920.45,"end":12922.45,"text":"謝謝好謝謝部長謝謝署長"},{"start":12923.73,"end":12927.73,"text":"好謝謝吳佩儀委員的詢答請部長回座"},{"start":12927.73,"end":12929.73,"text":"接下來有請"},{"start":12929.73,"end":12931.73,"text":"郭育勤委員質詢"},{"start":12936.17,"end":12938.17,"text":"好謝謝主席"},{"start":12938.17,"end":12940.17,"text":"有請部長"},{"start":12940.17,"end":12942.17,"text":"有請部長"},{"start":12945.79,"end":12947.79,"text":"委員好好部長辛苦了"},{"start":12947.79,"end":12949.79,"text":"那今天其實我還是要"},{"start":12949.79,"end":12951.79,"text":"針對這個消失會議的部分"},{"start":12951.79,"end":12953.79,"text":"來提出一些我的看法跟一些"},{"start":12953.79,"end":12955.79,"text":"問題喔那我想這個"},{"start":12955.79,"end":12957.79,"text":"消失會議其實是在我們第一線的"},{"start":12957.79,"end":12959.79,"text":"這個老師的現場其實他們"},{"start":12959.79,"end":12961.79,"text":"也就是因為消失"},{"start":12961.79,"end":12963.79,"text":"會議的關係喔那剛剛前面其實"},{"start":12963.79,"end":12965.79,"text":"我聽了有幾位的委員也特別提到"},{"start":12965.79,"end":12967.79,"text":"現在其實我們老師的部分"},{"start":12967.79,"end":12969.79,"text":"校園的部分其實有一波"},{"start":12969.79,"end":12971.79,"text":"這個老師要出走潮"},{"start":12971.79,"end":12973.79,"text":"那我想消失會議可能也占了"},{"start":12973.79,"end":12975.79,"text":"很大的一個重要的一個原因喔"},{"start":12975.79,"end":12977.79,"text":"那我想先請教一下"},{"start":12977.79,"end":12979.79,"text":"這個部長喔我們之前其實"},{"start":12979.79,"end":12981.79,"text":"當然我們1月12號的時候其實我們"},{"start":12981.79,"end":12983.79,"text":"也對外公佈了這個消失會議的部分"},{"start":12983.79,"end":12985.79,"text":"我們怎麼樣來做這個最好的一個"},{"start":12985.79,"end":12987.79,"text":"補救的一個方式喔就是讓"},{"start":12987.79,"end":12989.79,"text":"老師不要在校園當中"},{"start":12989.79,"end":12991.79,"text":"除了教學以外還要人心惶惶面對"},{"start":12991.79,"end":12993.79,"text":"自己被調查這樣子的一個危機喔"},{"start":12993.79,"end":12995.79,"text":"那當時其實我們也說了我們會"},{"start":12995.79,"end":12997.79,"text":"刪除這個匿名檢舉探出"},{"start":12997.79,"end":12999.79,"text":"那我相信這個應該就可以解決"},{"start":12999.79,"end":13001.79,"text":"蠻大的一個部分就是被"},{"start":13001.79,"end":13003.79,"text":"避免濫入的一個就是匿名濫入的"},{"start":13003.79,"end":13005.79,"text":"這樣子的一個狀況那第二個其實"},{"start":13005.79,"end":13007.79,"text":"之前我多次的在質詢"},{"start":13007.79,"end":13009.79,"text":"我相信我是第一個提到這個消失會議"},{"start":13009.79,"end":13011.79,"text":"的人喔那當然我也多次的"},{"start":13011.79,"end":13013.79,"text":"建議就是教育部我們是不是在這個"},{"start":13013.79,"end":13015.79,"text":"進入消失會議之前我們會有一個"},{"start":13015.79,"end":13017.79,"text":"分流也就是分級的一個機制"},{"start":13017.79,"end":13019.79,"text":"那這個部分呢我想問一下就是教育部"},{"start":13019.79,"end":13021.79,"text":"目前有沒有收到來自"},{"start":13021.79,"end":13023.79,"text":"校園方面他們做了"},{"start":13023.79,"end":13025.79,"text":"這樣子的一個處理那效果或成效"},{"start":13025.79,"end":13027.79,"text":"又如何這個分流的機制就是在"},{"start":13027.79,"end":13029.79,"text":"進入消失會議之前我們先把"},{"start":13029.79,"end":13031.79,"text":"有一些根本就是溝通上的一個問題"},{"start":13031.79,"end":13033.79,"text":"我是現場可以解決的不需要"},{"start":13033.79,"end":13035.79,"text":"再走所謂的消失會議的程序"},{"start":13035.79,"end":13037.79,"text":"這個部分有沒有收到一些回饋"},{"start":13038.99,"end":13040.99,"text":"跟委員報告到這個"},{"start":13040.99,"end":13042.99,"text":"2月28號"},{"start":13042.99,"end":13044.99,"text":"等於說今年1月12號到"},{"start":13044.99,"end":13046.99,"text":"2月28號我們收到的全國有"},{"start":13046.99,"end":13048.99,"text":"86案是那麼受理的"},{"start":13048.99,"end":13050.99,"text":"才只有等於說在"},{"start":13050.99,"end":13052.99,"text":"事前就分流了是"},{"start":13052.99,"end":13054.99,"text":"大概就只有22案"},{"start":13054.99,"end":13056.99,"text":"其他就變成不受理"},{"start":13056.99,"end":13058.99,"text":"或者或轉到考核案"},{"start":13058.99,"end":13060.99,"text":"他確實達到了已經開始"},{"start":13060.99,"end":13062.99,"text":"有分流了好那我想"},{"start":13062.99,"end":13064.99,"text":"要再回到這個所謂的分流"},{"start":13064.99,"end":13066.99,"text":"有所謂的這個分流的一個"},{"start":13066.99,"end":13068.99,"text":"這樣子的一個"},{"start":13068.99,"end":13070.99,"text":"算是方法啦就是在校園當中"},{"start":13070.99,"end":13072.99,"text":"已經開始實行了那他的確"},{"start":13072.99,"end":13074.99,"text":"也出現了一些效果但是我想要"},{"start":13074.99,"end":13076.99,"text":"問的是這個誰來決定"},{"start":13076.99,"end":13078.99,"text":"分流到底是停留在"},{"start":13078.99,"end":13080.99,"text":"我只是溝通我在學校端我就"},{"start":13080.99,"end":13082.99,"text":"可以解決然後接著下來我可能有一些"},{"start":13082.99,"end":13084.99,"text":"部分我可能要往所謂的"},{"start":13084.99,"end":13086.99,"text":"消失會議前進這個分流"},{"start":13086.99,"end":13088.99,"text":"的組成的判定的"},{"start":13088.99,"end":13090.99,"text":"團體或者是組織"},{"start":13090.99,"end":13092.99,"text":"是由校方的人員呢"},{"start":13092.99,"end":13094.99,"text":"還是由老師還是有所謂"},{"start":13094.99,"end":13096.99,"text":"的這個家長還是由外部的"},{"start":13096.99,"end":13098.99,"text":"一些專業的這個學者"},{"start":13098.99,"end":13100.99,"text":"或者是專家這個分流"},{"start":13100.99,"end":13102.99,"text":"的這個制度跟我們報告在基本上"},{"start":13102.99,"end":13104.99,"text":"就是這一個組成是"},{"start":13104.99,"end":13106.99,"text":"校長老師"},{"start":13106.99,"end":13108.99,"text":"代表是家長代表還有"},{"start":13108.99,"end":13110.99,"text":"社會公正人士好但是"},{"start":13110.99,"end":13112.99,"text":"校長是不投票的我等於就是"},{"start":13112.99,"end":13114.99,"text":"有教師代表家長代表"},{"start":13114.99,"end":13116.99,"text":"跟社會好他們取得一些共識"},{"start":13116.99,"end":13118.99,"text":"之後然後再回來就是校長"},{"start":13118.99,"end":13120.99,"text":"來做裁定對不對應該是這樣子"},{"start":13120.99,"end":13122.99,"text":"做了一個決定好校長基本上"},{"start":13122.99,"end":13124.99,"text":"就在主持這個會議讓他能夠"},{"start":13124.99,"end":13126.99,"text":"順暢為什麼我今天特別提到"},{"start":13126.99,"end":13128.99,"text":"這個問題這個看似"},{"start":13128.99,"end":13130.99,"text":"我們針對所謂的這個"},{"start":13130.99,"end":13132.99,"text":"消失會議的這個前端的部分分流"},{"start":13132.99,"end":13134.99,"text":"的一個部分看似我們好像還"},{"start":13134.99,"end":13136.99,"text":"蠻多元的然後還蠻"},{"start":13136.99,"end":13138.99,"text":"完整的但是問題是"},{"start":13138.99,"end":13140.99,"text":"會不會有可能成為"},{"start":13141.64,"end":13143.64,"text":"不是沒有有沒有專業的問題"},{"start":13143.64,"end":13145.64,"text":"是誰要不要負責判斷"},{"start":13145.64,"end":13147.64,"text":"的這個問題我為什麼"},{"start":13147.64,"end":13149.64,"text":"要這麼講那我以日本"},{"start":13149.64,"end":13151.64,"text":"來做這樣子的一個例子日本在"},{"start":13151.64,"end":13153.64,"text":"2020年其實他們就已經提出了"},{"start":13153.64,"end":13155.64,"text":"所謂的這個校園律師這樣子"},{"start":13155.64,"end":13157.64,"text":"的一個機制那校園律師的"},{"start":13157.64,"end":13159.64,"text":"一個存在其實不只是存在"},{"start":13159.64,"end":13161.64,"text":"於校園當中他可以處理"},{"start":13161.64,"end":13163.64,"text":"包含學生被罷免"},{"start":13163.64,"end":13165.64,"text":"或者是師生之間的一些"},{"start":13165.64,"end":13167.64,"text":"關係等等他做一些比較"},{"start":13167.64,"end":13169.64,"text":"正確而且法律上的一個專業"},{"start":13169.64,"end":13171.64,"text":"的一個判斷那回到我們現在"},{"start":13171.64,"end":13173.64,"text":"講的所謂的消失會議的前端"},{"start":13173.64,"end":13175.64,"text":"我們的分級的一個機制喔"},{"start":13175.64,"end":13177.64,"text":"那我想是由法律的專業來主導"},{"start":13177.64,"end":13179.64,"text":"這個前端的一個判斷他是一個非常"},{"start":13179.64,"end":13181.64,"text":"重要的一個緩衝同時他"},{"start":13181.64,"end":13183.64,"text":"也會避免我想"},{"start":13183.64,"end":13185.64,"text":"避免是什麼避免行政最後"},{"start":13185.64,"end":13187.64,"text":"來主導這個判斷也就是說"},{"start":13187.64,"end":13189.64,"text":"我把這些專業意見變成"},{"start":13189.64,"end":13191.64,"text":"只是其中的一個參考而已但是"},{"start":13191.64,"end":13193.64,"text":"在日本他們是有這樣子的一個"},{"start":13193.64,"end":13195.64,"text":"所謂的校園律師"},{"start":13195.64,"end":13197.64,"text":"我們有沒有可能往這個"},{"start":13197.64,"end":13199.64,"text":"方向來做這樣子的一個"},{"start":13199.64,"end":13201.64,"text":"一個考量也就是說當一個"},{"start":13201.64,"end":13203.64,"text":"案件進來的時候其實在台灣剛剛"},{"start":13203.64,"end":13205.64,"text":"我們講了台灣的校園我們是有"},{"start":13205.64,"end":13207.64,"text":"家長代表我們可能有學生代表"},{"start":13207.64,"end":13209.64,"text":"家長代表我們有這個教師"},{"start":13209.64,"end":13211.64,"text":"代表然後再來可能有行政人員"},{"start":13211.64,"end":13213.64,"text":"然後最後這個校長他是沒有投票"},{"start":13213.64,"end":13215.64,"text":"的一個權利"},{"start":13215.64,"end":13217.64,"text":"社會公正是訓練過是"},{"start":13217.64,"end":13219.64,"text":"外界的公眾那只要"},{"start":13219.64,"end":13221.64,"text":"有爭議只要碰到"},{"start":13221.64,"end":13223.64,"text":"如果這個所謂的案例他是"},{"start":13223.64,"end":13225.64,"text":"有爭議的會不會因為我們"},{"start":13225.64,"end":13227.64,"text":"剛剛講的沒有一個人想要"},{"start":13227.64,"end":13229.64,"text":"當壞人啊"},{"start":13229.59,"end":13231.59,"text":"你懂我意思嗎就沒有一個人想要當壞人"},{"start":13231.59,"end":13233.59,"text":"沒有人想當壞人的時候"},{"start":13233.59,"end":13235.59,"text":"他沒有人願意去承擔說"},{"start":13235.59,"end":13237.59,"text":"這個所謂的這個校事會議"},{"start":13237.59,"end":13239.59,"text":"我可能就不受理那最後我們"},{"start":13239.59,"end":13241.59,"text":"大家都沒有辦法決定好那就只好送"},{"start":13241.59,"end":13243.59,"text":"校事會議會不會有可能這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":13243.59,"end":13245.59,"text":"當然有時候土法不足以自行"},{"start":13245.59,"end":13247.59,"text":"當然"},{"start":13247.06,"end":13249.06,"text":"有沒有可能我當然"},{"start":13249.06,"end":13251.06,"text":"是有可能但是我們至少在"},{"start":13251.06,"end":13253.06,"text":"程序必說他是匿名投票"},{"start":13253.06,"end":13255.06,"text":"然後這個校外的公正人士"},{"start":13255.06,"end":13257.06,"text":"當然他有可能有是法律"},{"start":13257.06,"end":13259.06,"text":"專業背景的或者因為"},{"start":13259.06,"end":13261.06,"text":"這個事件裡邊他們可能是走"},{"start":13261.06,"end":13263.06,"text":"這個心理學校或者"},{"start":13263.06,"end":13265.06,"text":"這個兒童"},{"start":13265.06,"end":13267.06,"text":"這個社工人士等等"},{"start":13267.06,"end":13269.06,"text":"因為今天這個時間關係"},{"start":13269.06,"end":13271.06,"text":"我為什麼會特別提到就是說我們"},{"start":13271.06,"end":13273.06,"text":"是不是可以來參考日本他們的"},{"start":13273.06,"end":13275.06,"text":"做法也就是說我們請向"},{"start":13275.06,"end":13277.06,"text":"程序化的處理"},{"start":13277.06,"end":13279.06,"text":"不要只是為了自保而已"},{"start":13279.06,"end":13281.06,"text":"而是這個程序化之前的這個"},{"start":13281.06,"end":13283.06,"text":"分級的處理我們是不是"},{"start":13283.06,"end":13285.06,"text":"可以給一個所謂的這個第三方"},{"start":13285.06,"end":13287.06,"text":"最公正的一個單位"},{"start":13287.06,"end":13289.06,"text":"這個人可能就是所謂有律師"},{"start":13289.06,"end":13291.06,"text":"背景我們來做所謂的這個"},{"start":13291.06,"end":13293.06,"text":"比照如果"},{"start":13293.06,"end":13295.06,"text":"是法律問題進入程序"},{"start":13295.06,"end":13297.06,"text":"如果只是溝通問題我們可以現場"},{"start":13297.06,"end":13299.06,"text":"來做處理"},{"start":13299.06,"end":13301.06,"text":"檢查到那個第二個階段"},{"start":13301.06,"end":13303.06,"text":"那個所謂的真正認定他可能"},{"start":13303.06,"end":13305.06,"text":"會可能會觸及到"},{"start":13305.06,"end":13307.06,"text":"這一個解聘不適的這些"},{"start":13307.06,"end":13309.06,"text":"但通常各個學校都會"},{"start":13309.06,"end":13311.06,"text":"有法律的專家進來"},{"start":13311.06,"end":13313.06,"text":"好但是我剛剛講了法律的專家"},{"start":13313.06,"end":13315.06,"text":"進來他只是其中的一環"},{"start":13315.06,"end":13317.06,"text":"的其中的一個人但是"},{"start":13317.06,"end":13319.06,"text":"其實我們看到日本他們是把法律"},{"start":13319.06,"end":13321.06,"text":"的專家是走在整個所有的制度"},{"start":13321.06,"end":13323.06,"text":"或所有的機制的最前面這個"},{"start":13323.06,"end":13325.06,"text":"其實我們也可以來做一個參考"},{"start":13325.06,"end":13327.06,"text":"好不好"},{"start":13327.06,"end":13329.06,"text":"接下來第二個問題其實我剛剛"},{"start":13329.06,"end":13331.06,"text":"有特別提到我們的老師出手"},{"start":13331.06,"end":13333.06,"text":"那現在其實關於"},{"start":13333.06,"end":13335.06,"text":"這個國中小的一個"},{"start":13335.06,"end":13337.06,"text":"教職離職的人數其實算"},{"start":13337.06,"end":13339.06,"text":"是最多的喔那麼從"},{"start":13339.06,"end":13341.06,"text":"這個109年的一個"},{"start":13341.06,"end":13343.06,"text":"資料到113年喔"},{"start":13343.06,"end":13345.06,"text":"從原本的2249人包含"},{"start":13345.06,"end":13347.06,"text":"這些離職啦退休啦或者是"},{"start":13347.06,"end":13349.06,"text":"所謂的這個留庭的這個人數"},{"start":13349.06,"end":13351.06,"text":"從2000多人已經"},{"start":13351.06,"end":13353.06,"text":"暴增到5024"},{"start":13353.06,"end":13355.06,"text":"人5年之內其實"},{"start":13355.06,"end":13357.06,"text":"已經高達了百分之123"},{"start":13357.06,"end":13359.06,"text":"那這個其實等於是翻倍"},{"start":13359.06,"end":13361.06,"text":"的在流失啊就是老師"},{"start":13361.06,"end":13363.06,"text":"的這樣子的一個人才是"},{"start":13363.06,"end":13365.06,"text":"翻倍的在流失那尤其是"},{"start":13365.06,"end":13367.06,"text":"中間的中 40"},{"start":13367.06,"end":13369.06,"text":"歲到50歲這最重要"},{"start":13369.06,"end":13371.06,"text":"的終身代的一個教師他是"},{"start":13371.06,"end":13373.06,"text":"校園最重要的一個主幹"},{"start":13373.06,"end":13375.06,"text":"但這群人他們最不想"},{"start":13375.06,"end":13377.06,"text":"要留在校園這是一個非常大的"},{"start":13377.06,"end":13379.06,"text":"一個引用再來現在連"},{"start":13379.06,"end":13381.06,"text":"心血都不願意進來了為什麼心血"},{"start":13381.06,"end":13383.06,"text":"不願意進來因為連同公費"},{"start":13383.06,"end":13385.06,"text":"生可能有15%他是說"},{"start":13385.06,"end":13387.06,"text":"我真的寧可賠錢我也要解"},{"start":13387.06,"end":13389.06,"text":"冤要走人好那這個也是"},{"start":13389.06,"end":13391.06,"text":"再來我們調查過了"},{"start":13391.06,"end":13393.06,"text":"這個這是翻轉教育"},{"start":13393.06,"end":13395.06,"text":"他們說了這個校園當中將"},{"start":13395.06,"end":13397.06,"text":"進有四成的老師考慮在"},{"start":13397.06,"end":13399.06,"text":"三年之內要離職"},{"start":13399.06,"end":13401.06,"text":"我們有沒有掌握到底"},{"start":13401.06,"end":13403.06,"text":"是什麼原因留不住人"},{"start":13403.06,"end":13405.06,"text":"是因為我們的整個"},{"start":13405.06,"end":13407.06,"text":"所有的薪資的結構還是"},{"start":13407.06,"end":13409.06,"text":"有一個最重要的原因還是剛剛"},{"start":13409.06,"end":13411.06,"text":"我提到的所謂的校市的會議"},{"start":13411.06,"end":13413.06,"text":"我們不能在一個已經在"},{"start":13413.06,"end":13415.06,"text":"漏水的桶子裡面我說"},{"start":13415.06,"end":13417.06,"text":"沒關係我就一直加水加水加水"},{"start":13417.06,"end":13419.06,"text":"他還在漏啊如果沒有找到"},{"start":13419.06,"end":13421.06,"text":"真正的原因我們怎麼補足這一塊"},{"start":13421.06,"end":13423.06,"text":"因為最終受影響的還是"},{"start":13423.06,"end":13425.06,"text":"學生的受教權這個"},{"start":13425.06,"end":13427.06,"text":"部分"},{"start":13426.6,"end":13428.6,"text":"謝謝委員提醒"},{"start":13428.6,"end":13430.6,"text":"確實老師的工作滿意度"},{"start":13430.6,"end":13432.6,"text":"是很重要關係到我們台灣的"},{"start":13432.6,"end":13434.6,"text":"一個教育品質那我們事實上"},{"start":13434.6,"end":13436.6,"text":"從師師因為"},{"start":13436.6,"end":13438.6,"text":"譬如說我們師師在從民國"},{"start":13438.6,"end":13440.6,"text":"五十七年改制"},{"start":13440.6,"end":13442.6,"text":"為國中每三十年"},{"start":13444,"end":13446,"text":"大概一個世代退休潮"},{"start":13446,"end":13448,"text":"那當然隨著你看"},{"start":13448,"end":13450,"text":"五十七年到八十七年"},{"start":13450,"end":13452,"text":"到一一七理論上"},{"start":13452,"end":13454,"text":"他就是當然他可能會"},{"start":13454,"end":13456,"text":"是一種代算啊他可能會"},{"start":13456,"end":13458,"text":"是一個因為隨著我們科技"},{"start":13458,"end":13460,"text":"產業的犀利"},{"start":13460,"end":13462,"text":"這當然也可能是一個原因另外"},{"start":13463.37,"end":13465.37,"text":"所以剛剛其實部長有講到可能"},{"start":13465.37,"end":13467.37,"text":"可能可能可能可能"},{"start":13467.37,"end":13469.37,"text":"可是問題是我希望"},{"start":13469.37,"end":13471.37,"text":"教育部要做到的因為我們"},{"start":13471.37,"end":13473.37,"text":"畢竟是教育部我們"},{"start":13473.37,"end":13475.37,"text":"是最高的主管機關"},{"start":13475.37,"end":13477.37,"text":"這個部分如果我們沒有辦法"},{"start":13477.37,"end":13479.37,"text":"掌握真正學校"},{"start":13479.37,"end":13481.37,"text":"校園師資流失的"},{"start":13481.37,"end":13483.37,"text":"真正的關鍵的原因我們"},{"start":13483.37,"end":13485.37,"text":"找不到方法如果找不到"},{"start":13485.37,"end":13487.37,"text":"方法我們有再好的一些政策"},{"start":13487.37,"end":13489.37,"text":"其實我們真的都"},{"start":13489.37,"end":13491.37,"text":"應該認為這個是一個非常"},{"start":13491.37,"end":13493.37,"text":"重要的危機"},{"start":13514.74,"end":13516.74,"text":"我們都知道"},{"start":13516.74,"end":13518.74,"text":"我們都知道我們"},{"start":13518.74,"end":13520.74,"text":"公願意大於求"},{"start":13520.74,"end":13522.74,"text":"但重點是很多的"},{"start":13522.74,"end":13524.74,"text":"好幾招之後"},{"start":13524.74,"end":13526.74,"text":"他還是招不滿"},{"start":13526.74,"end":13528.74,"text":"要好幾招"},{"start":13528.74,"end":13530.74,"text":"我想我的心情"},{"start":13530.74,"end":13532.74,"text":"跟委員是一樣的就是說"},{"start":13532.74,"end":13534.74,"text":"國民教育地方他不能"},{"start":13534.74,"end":13536.74,"text":"兩手一攤就是說"},{"start":13536.74,"end":13538.74,"text":"我聘不到老師"},{"start":13538.74,"end":13540.74,"text":"我希望我們來做一個真正的"},{"start":13540.74,"end":13542.74,"text":"現場的盤點來真的"},{"start":13542.74,"end":13544.74,"text":"真的找出到底這些"},{"start":13544.74,"end":13546.74,"text":"老師留不住的真正"},{"start":13546.74,"end":13548.74,"text":"的原因到底在哪裡"},{"start":13548.74,"end":13550.74,"text":"然後我們才能夠更具體"},{"start":13550.74,"end":13552.74,"text":"這個部分是不是有一些比較"},{"start":13552.74,"end":13554.74,"text":"實施師跟國教署也一直"},{"start":13554.74,"end":13556.74,"text":"在這一個部分委託"},{"start":13556.74,"end":13558.74,"text":"學者專家在做一連"},{"start":13558.74,"end":13560.74,"text":"一系列的一些計畫研究"},{"start":13560.74,"end":13562.74,"text":"在瞭解我們這個"},{"start":13562.74,"end":13564.74,"text":"專業跟基石是國家最重要的"},{"start":13564.74,"end":13566.74,"text":"一個競爭力的存在"},{"start":13566.74,"end":13568.74,"text":"那最後請主席"},{"start":13568.74,"end":13570.74,"text":"再給我一點時間還有第三個問題"},{"start":13570.74,"end":13572.74,"text":"然後我想這個部分我們如果有一些"},{"start":13572.74,"end":13574.74,"text":"比較進程的一些報告再提供"},{"start":13574.74,"end":13576.74,"text":"給我辦公室我們真的來正式這樣子"},{"start":13576.74,"end":13578.74,"text":"的一個問題好嗎"},{"start":13578.74,"end":13580.74,"text":"再來第三個問題我想大家都知道現在"},{"start":13580.74,"end":13582.74,"text":"不管是假訊息也好然後AI"},{"start":13582.74,"end":13584.74,"text":"是日性月益然後再加上"},{"start":13584.74,"end":13586.74,"text":"所謂的認知度才是越來越嚴重了"},{"start":13586.74,"end":13588.74,"text":"但是在我們的教育體系當中"},{"start":13588.74,"end":13590.74,"text":"我們是不是還停留在"},{"start":13590.74,"end":13592.74,"text":"教學生不要亂信所謂的"},{"start":13592.74,"end":13594.74,"text":"假訊息這樣子一個層次而已"},{"start":13594.74,"end":13596.74,"text":"剛剛聽到就是我們的"},{"start":13596.74,"end":13598.74,"text":"這個AI立委我們的"},{"start":13598.74,"end":13600.74,"text":"國軍委員他有特別提到芬蘭"},{"start":13600.74,"end":13602.74,"text":"那我也想要用芬蘭來做"},{"start":13602.74,"end":13604.74,"text":"這樣子的一個例子來說明"},{"start":13604.74,"end":13606.74,"text":"那我想這個芬蘭他們是從"},{"start":13606.74,"end":13608.74,"text":"3歲到10歲就已經"},{"start":13608.74,"end":13610.74,"text":"開始在教孩子們什麼"},{"start":13610.74,"end":13612.74,"text":"叫做試讀的能力"},{"start":13612.74,"end":13614.74,"text":"那他們甚至在語言的"},{"start":13614.74,"end":13616.74,"text":"課程當中已經開始在辨識"},{"start":13616.74,"end":13618.74,"text":"所謂的訊息的來源那麼他們在"},{"start":13618.74,"end":13620.74,"text":"社會課程當中已經開始在判讀"},{"start":13620.74,"end":13622.74,"text":"所謂的公共的議題甚至"},{"start":13622.74,"end":13624.74,"text":"在數位科的這個"},{"start":13624.74,"end":13626.74,"text":"教學的方面他們已經開始"},{"start":13626.74,"end":13628.74,"text":"在用演算法跟假訊息"},{"start":13628.74,"end":13630.74,"text":"這樣子的一個操作在"},{"start":13630.74,"end":13632.74,"text":"作為教育了所以為什麼這個芬蘭"},{"start":13632.74,"end":13634.74,"text":"從這個如果我沒記錯"},{"start":13634.74,"end":13636.74,"text":"從2018年到2023年"},{"start":13636.74,"end":13638.74,"text":"他一直是"},{"start":13638.74,"end":13640.74,"text":"所謂的試讀教育整個所有的"},{"start":13640.74,"end":13642.74,"text":"評比的第一名就是在歐洲"},{"start":13642.74,"end":13644.74,"text":"但是除了在歐洲德國"},{"start":13644.74,"end":13646.74,"text":"也開始做了英國也開始做了"},{"start":13646.74,"end":13648.74,"text":"連我們知道的南韓也開始"},{"start":13648.74,"end":13650.74,"text":"做了韓國也開始做了那我想"},{"start":13650.74,"end":13652.74,"text":"現在如果說"},{"start":13652.74,"end":13654.74,"text":"大家都已經全世界都已經"},{"start":13654.74,"end":13656.74,"text":"意識到所謂的試讀"},{"start":13656.74,"end":13658.74,"text":"的教育試讀的"},{"start":13658.74,"end":13660.74,"text":"認知的問題其實是"},{"start":13660.74,"end":13662.74,"text":"媒體試讀非常非常重要的問題"},{"start":13662.74,"end":13664.74,"text":"我們如果還只是停留在"},{"start":13664.74,"end":13666.74,"text":"分散在各科流於形式"},{"start":13666.74,"end":13668.74,"text":"只是在告訴大家說"},{"start":13668.74,"end":13670.74,"text":"這個可能是假的這個可能是真的"},{"start":13670.74,"end":13672.74,"text":"但是我們沒有統一或者是"},{"start":13672.74,"end":13674.74,"text":"系統性的不管是失陪也好"},{"start":13674.74,"end":13678.74,"text":"或者是教學的資源的支柱也好"},{"start":13678.74,"end":13680.74,"text":"讓老師只是輕輕的帶過"},{"start":13680.74,"end":13682.74,"text":"我想這個問題會非常"},{"start":13682.74,"end":13684.74,"text":"非常非常的嚴重我們"},{"start":13684.74,"end":13686.74,"text":"有沒有我想這所謂的"},{"start":13686.74,"end":13688.74,"text":"這個媒體的試讀它不是"},{"start":13688.74,"end":13690.74,"text":"學修而是真的從"},{"start":13690.74,"end":13692.74,"text":"小現在開始我們"},{"start":13692.74,"end":13694.74,"text":"就應該要有一個整合性的"},{"start":13694.74,"end":13696.74,"text":"一個這樣子的一個把"},{"start":13696.74,"end":13698.74,"text":"中小學把媒體"},{"start":13698.74,"end":13700.74,"text":"試讀這樣子的一個科學能夠"},{"start":13700.74,"end":13702.74,"text":"放進去我們的課綱當中我們"},{"start":13702.74,"end":13704.74,"text":"有沒有這樣的一個計畫"},{"start":13704.74,"end":13706.74,"text":"跟我們包括我們最近確實我們"},{"start":13706.74,"end":13708.74,"text":"規劃了一個AI人才"},{"start":13708.74,"end":13710.74,"text":"這個方舟計畫裡邊本來"},{"start":13710.74,"end":13712.74,"text":"媒體試讀我們就一直"},{"start":13712.74,"end":13714.74,"text":"在從小學就"},{"start":13714.74,"end":13716.74,"text":"前面在做包含我們"},{"start":13716.74,"end":13718.74,"text":"這一個中生教育師他也在"},{"start":13718.74,"end":13720.74,"text":"這個社大裡邊"},{"start":13720.74,"end":13722.74,"text":"社區大學裡邊樂林裡邊"},{"start":13722.74,"end":13724.74,"text":"也都有在教沒有"},{"start":13724.74,"end":13726.74,"text":"我不是在講外面我是在講學校"},{"start":13726.74,"end":13728.74,"text":"我是在講中小學"},{"start":13728.74,"end":13730.74,"text":"學校就有開始在做那"},{"start":13730.74,"end":13732.74,"text":"這個剛才所講的"},{"start":13732.74,"end":13734.74,"text":"AI人才方舟計畫裡邊"},{"start":13734.74,"end":13736.74,"text":"媒體試讀它也是一個重點"},{"start":13736.74,"end":13738.74,"text":"也是我們一個計畫裡邊"},{"start":13738.74,"end":13740.74,"text":"我想我提醒教育部"},{"start":13740.74,"end":13742.74,"text":"我們要把這個部分當成是國家級"},{"start":13742.74,"end":13744.74,"text":"的基礎工程來做"},{"start":13744.74,"end":13746.74,"text":"為什麼我要這麼說因為它其實"},{"start":13746.74,"end":13748.74,"text":"跟我們的國家安全有非常"},{"start":13748.74,"end":13750.74,"text":"大的一個關係如果孩子們"},{"start":13750.74,"end":13752.74,"text":"他沒有從小有這樣子的"},{"start":13752.74,"end":13754.74,"text":"一個觀念其實他就是國安"},{"start":13754.74,"end":13756.74,"text":"非常嚴重的一個破口"},{"start":13756.74,"end":13758.74,"text":"我們一定要我們一定要"},{"start":13758.74,"end":13760.74,"text":"把它當成一個非常重要的"},{"start":13760.74,"end":13762.74,"text":"政治來做看怎麼樣把所謂"},{"start":13762.74,"end":13764.74,"text":"的這個媒體試讀的一個教育"},{"start":13764.74,"end":13766.74,"text":"正式納入國中小"},{"start":13766.74,"end":13768.74,"text":"的一個階段讓每一個孩子"},{"start":13768.74,"end":13770.74,"text":"都知道我要怎麼樣在"},{"start":13770.74,"end":13772.74,"text":"日新月異的AI整個"},{"start":13772.74,"end":13774.74,"text":"所有都有可能因為一個指令"},{"start":13774.74,"end":13776.74,"text":"就可能變成一個假訊息這樣子"},{"start":13776.74,"end":13778.74,"text":"的一個充斥的一個環境當中能夠"},{"start":13778.74,"end":13780.74,"text":"找到自己能夠自我判斷"},{"start":13780.74,"end":13782.74,"text":"媒體試讀的一個能力好不好"},{"start":13783.74,"end":13785.74,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":13786.51,"end":13790.51,"text":"好謝謝郭育芹委員請部長回座"},{"start":13790.51,"end":13793.51,"text":"主席在這邊先宣告"},{"start":13793.51,"end":13795.51,"text":"那個葉原之委員發言前"},{"start":13795.51,"end":13797.51,"text":"我先有一件事要說明"},{"start":13797.51,"end":13799.51,"text":"今天有一個臨時提案"},{"start":13799.51,"end":13802.51,"text":"一案那在伍立華委員質詢完畢之後"},{"start":13802.51,"end":13804.51,"text":"我們要進行處理"},{"start":13804.51,"end":13807.51,"text":"好現在有請葉原之委員詢答"},{"start":13807.51,"end":13809.51,"text":"請"},{"start":13817.02,"end":13820.02,"text":"主席好麻煩請教育部長謝謝"},{"start":13820.02,"end":13822.02,"text":"好有請曾部長"},{"start":13826.99,"end":13829.99,"text":"部長好因為今天大家討論這個教師法"},{"start":13829.99,"end":13832.99,"text":"其實最終目的啦我覺得還是要給老師一定的尊重"},{"start":13832.99,"end":13835.99,"text":"要改善對老師的不友善的環境"},{"start":13835.99,"end":13838.99,"text":"剛剛大家都談很多啦現在少事化真的非常嚴重"},{"start":13838.99,"end":13841.99,"text":"我真的希望教育部可以很正視這個問題"},{"start":13841.99,"end":13843.99,"text":"因為教育是國家的根本"},{"start":13843.99,"end":13845.99,"text":"如果連老師都不願意投入"},{"start":13845.99,"end":13848.99,"text":"這一個工作的話那以後誰來教育學生"},{"start":13848.99,"end":13850.99,"text":"這其實是雙輸的局面"},{"start":13850.99,"end":13853.99,"text":"教育部常常講說地方怎麼樣地方怎麼樣"},{"start":13853.99,"end":13856.99,"text":"教育部總是教育的最高單位嘛"},{"start":13856.99,"end":13858.99,"text":"大家希望你多做一些事情"},{"start":13858.99,"end":13860.99,"text":"包括我們都希望跟你一起來討論"},{"start":13860.99,"end":13862.99,"text":"看怎麼樣讓教育更好啦"},{"start":13862.99,"end":13864.99,"text":"那我昨天總質詢"},{"start":13864.99,"end":13867.99,"text":"也跟卓榮泰院長跟部長很深入的討論"},{"start":13867.99,"end":13869.99,"text":"有關於校園安全問題"},{"start":13869.99,"end":13871.99,"text":"基本上我覺得校園安全這個議題"},{"start":13871.99,"end":13875.99,"text":"也會影響到老師願不願意留在這個職場的動機"},{"start":13875.99,"end":13878.99,"text":"就像昨天卓榮泰院長"},{"start":13878.99,"end":13880.99,"text":"他我也是很感謝他啦"},{"start":13880.99,"end":13885.99,"text":"他有肯定我因為想要解決這個校園安全的問題"},{"start":13885.99,"end":13887.99,"text":"所以提了一個安心上學法案"},{"start":13887.99,"end":13890.99,"text":"針對那些常常戴蝴蝶套上課"},{"start":13890.99,"end":13893.99,"text":"然後那種動不動就拿可能會有疑慮"},{"start":13893.99,"end":13895.99,"text":"他也可能拿刀刺人的啊"},{"start":13895.99,"end":13897.99,"text":"或者是拿鋁棒敲人的啊"},{"start":13897.99,"end":13899.99,"text":"這種背後有乾割乾解的這種學生"},{"start":13899.99,"end":13903.99,"text":"希望能夠由教育部可以設立一個專屬的學校"},{"start":13903.99,"end":13906.99,"text":"然後由一些教育很有理念的專業團體來設立"},{"start":13906.99,"end":13908.99,"text":"比如說以人為本"},{"start":13908.99,"end":13910.99,"text":"比如說愛德教育正向管教"},{"start":13910.99,"end":13914.99,"text":"讓原本的學校的師生可以得到喘息好好讀書"},{"start":13914.99,"end":13917.99,"text":"昨天院長他說他有認同我這個大方向"},{"start":13917.99,"end":13919.99,"text":"不過昨天院長講了一句話"},{"start":13919.99,"end":13923.99,"text":"在網路上有一些老師也有意見"},{"start":13923.99,"end":13926.99,"text":"因為院長說如果遇到那些會帶刀上課的學生"},{"start":13926.99,"end":13929.99,"text":"那老師跟行政人員就要有所處置啊"},{"start":13929.99,"end":13932.99,"text":"但是他講這句話是完全不了解教學現場"},{"start":13932.99,"end":13934.99,"text":"因為在現在的教學情況"},{"start":13934.99,"end":13936.99,"text":"如果你說要一般的行政人員跟老師"},{"start":13936.99,"end":13938.99,"text":"面對這種學生他要怎麼處理"},{"start":13938.99,"end":13940.99,"text":"他沒有能力處理啊"},{"start":13940.99,"end":13942.99,"text":"所以教育部要針對這件事情"},{"start":13942.99,"end":13944.99,"text":"我覺得要提出一個方案出來"},{"start":13944.99,"end":13946.99,"text":"那我我覺得既然"},{"start":13946.99,"end":13948.99,"text":"院長他肯定我的立法方向"},{"start":13948.99,"end":13950.99,"text":"那接下來細節部分我們是不是可以"},{"start":13951.95,"end":13953.95,"text":"真的非常認真"},{"start":13953.95,"end":13955.95,"text":"上次有開過公聽會但是部長沒有來"},{"start":13955.95,"end":13957.95,"text":"是不是可以找一個時間"},{"start":13957.95,"end":13959.95,"text":"請部長可以找一些相關的人"},{"start":13959.95,"end":13961.95,"text":"我們一起"},{"start":13961.95,"end":13963.95,"text":"不一定要利用委員會的時間"},{"start":13963.95,"end":13965.95,"text":"我們可以很認真來討論一下細節"},{"start":13965.95,"end":13967.95,"text":"因為他可能牽涉到比較深入的討論"},{"start":13967.95,"end":13969.95,"text":"不知道部長你願意嗎"},{"start":13970.88,"end":13972.88,"text":"怎麼樣讓學校更友善"},{"start":13972.88,"end":13974.88,"text":"更安全"},{"start":13974.88,"end":13978.88,"text":"讓老師教學能夠安心學生學習放心"},{"start":13978.88,"end":13980.88,"text":"家長也能夠放心小孩子在學校學習"},{"start":13980.88,"end":13984.88,"text":"我想這個方向我們是一定願意來努力的"},{"start":13984.88,"end":13986.88,"text":"你沒有回答我問題啊"},{"start":13986.88,"end":13988.88,"text":"我是說既然他"},{"start":13988.88,"end":13990.88,"text":"院長有肯定我們的立法方向的話"},{"start":13990.88,"end":13992.88,"text":"那我們就"},{"start":13992.88,"end":13994.88,"text":"我們來找一個時間"},{"start":13994.88,"end":13996.88,"text":"我們來討論一下細節"},{"start":13996.88,"end":13998.88,"text":"因為我們委員會"},{"start":13998.88,"end":14000.88,"text":"我們委員會集聚時間也不多啦"},{"start":14000.88,"end":14002.88,"text":"也沒辦法很認真進入細節"},{"start":14002.88,"end":14004.88,"text":"我都約你啊我們再找一個時間來討論"},{"start":14004.88,"end":14006.88,"text":"因為細節要有另外的一個"},{"start":14006.88,"end":14008.88,"text":"時間充分討論"},{"start":14008.88,"end":14010.88,"text":"這個我來先"},{"start":14010.88,"end":14012.88,"text":"提一下因為我之前"},{"start":14012.88,"end":14014.88,"text":"我在上個會期我有提到一個事情"},{"start":14014.88,"end":14016.88,"text":"也是跟老師的待遇"},{"start":14016.88,"end":14018.88,"text":"跟尊重老師有關的"},{"start":14018.88,"end":14020.88,"text":"因為我先肯定一下教育部把老師的終點費提高了啦"},{"start":14020.88,"end":14022.88,"text":"那這個是肯定"},{"start":14022.88,"end":14024.88,"text":"當然這第一步我們覺得不夠"},{"start":14024.88,"end":14026.88,"text":"但是可以再多一點可是至少已經跨出第一步"},{"start":14026.88,"end":14028.88,"text":"但是因為他反應的一個狀況"},{"start":14028.88,"end":14030.88,"text":"就是說如果學校的老師"},{"start":14030.88,"end":14032.88,"text":"他如果不是導師"},{"start":14032.88,"end":14034.88,"text":"也不是行政人員"},{"start":14034.88,"end":14036.88,"text":"他也不是終點老師的話"},{"start":14036.88,"end":14038.88,"text":"其實對這些老師來講"},{"start":14038.88,"end":14040.88,"text":"教育部現在的做法對他們來說是沒有差的"},{"start":14040.88,"end":14042.88,"text":"反而是讓他們多付出"},{"start":14042.88,"end":14044.88,"text":"為什麼呢因為他們如果請假"},{"start":14044.88,"end":14046.88,"text":"一般老師請假的待客費用"},{"start":14046.88,"end":14048.88,"text":"是老師自己出嘛"},{"start":14048.88,"end":14050.88,"text":"那所以他的請的"},{"start":14050.88,"end":14052.88,"text":"他出的待客費用反而提高"},{"start":14052.88,"end":14054.88,"text":"所以像一群就是比如說他可能是"},{"start":14054.88,"end":14056.88,"text":"科人老師"},{"start":14056.88,"end":14058.88,"text":"在教育部這一波的"},{"start":14058.88,"end":14060.88,"text":"待遇的調整他們其實沒有受惠"},{"start":14060.88,"end":14062.88,"text":"其實是沒有受惠反而多付出"},{"start":14062.88,"end":14064.88,"text":"這個部長我跟您提過"},{"start":14064.88,"end":14066.88,"text":"您還記得嗎"},{"start":14067.06,"end":14069.06,"text":"您記得嗎"},{"start":14069.06,"end":14071.06,"text":"那當時我是不知道說教育部"},{"start":14071.06,"end":14073.06,"text":"要怎麼去解決這個問題啦"},{"start":14073.06,"end":14075.06,"text":"針對我剛剛提到那一群老師"},{"start":14075.06,"end":14077.06,"text":"但是我有提一個建議"},{"start":14077.06,"end":14079.06,"text":"我說不然的話是不是可以減老師的終點"},{"start":14079.06,"end":14081.06,"text":"開始做起因為現在"},{"start":14081.06,"end":14083.06,"text":"國小是20個終點國中18終點"},{"start":14083.06,"end":14085.06,"text":"高中16終點"},{"start":14085.06,"end":14087.06,"text":"如果讓所有的老師都可以減兩個終點的話"},{"start":14087.06,"end":14089.06,"text":"他第一個"},{"start":14089.06,"end":14091.06,"text":"因為108課綱關係"},{"start":14091.06,"end":14093.06,"text":"老師其實負擔也蠻重的"},{"start":14093.06,"end":14095.06,"text":"那讓他減終點"},{"start":14095.06,"end":14097.06,"text":"讓他願意減終點"},{"start":14097.06,"end":14099.06,"text":"讓他可以多一點時間去備課"},{"start":14099.06,"end":14101.06,"text":"或去跟學生相處教學之類的"},{"start":14101.06,"end":14103.06,"text":"第二個當然部長可能會講說"},{"start":14103.06,"end":14105.06,"text":"那減終點的話"},{"start":14105.06,"end":14107.06,"text":"其他的課誰要來教"},{"start":14107.06,"end":14109.06,"text":"如果找得到就可以讓其他人來教"},{"start":14109.06,"end":14111.06,"text":"那如果找不到的話"},{"start":14111.06,"end":14113.06,"text":"校內因為減了終點之後"},{"start":14113.06,"end":14115.06,"text":"假設由原來的校內老師"},{"start":14115.06,"end":14117.06,"text":"來上這些課的話"},{"start":14117.06,"end":14119.06,"text":"那這些老師他就可以得到"},{"start":14119.06,"end":14121.06,"text":"額外的終點費"},{"start":14121.06,"end":14123.06,"text":"那他如果得到額外的終點費"},{"start":14123.06,"end":14125.06,"text":"那他等於是這一次"},{"start":14125.06,"end":14127.06,"text":"教育部調漲的終點費"},{"start":14127.06,"end":14129.06,"text":"對他來說就有幫助"},{"start":14129.06,"end":14131.06,"text":"他等於是有點變相加薪"},{"start":14131.06,"end":14133.06,"text":"那我上個會期提的時候幾個月"},{"start":14133.06,"end":14135.06,"text":"已經隔很多個月了"},{"start":14135.06,"end":14137.06,"text":"當時我跟部長講說其實幫你算過了"},{"start":14137.06,"end":14139.06,"text":"全國大概增加20幾億"},{"start":14139.06,"end":14141.06,"text":"這個錢真的對教育部來說不是一個大錢"},{"start":14141.06,"end":14143.06,"text":"可是你至少可以讓老師"},{"start":14143.06,"end":14145.06,"text":"得到一個基本尊重"},{"start":14145.06,"end":14147.06,"text":"而且至少讓所有的老師"},{"start":14147.06,"end":14149.06,"text":"不管他是不是導師或者是行政人員"},{"start":14149.06,"end":14151.06,"text":"那他都可以在薪資上面"},{"start":14151.06,"end":14153.06,"text":"有增加一些"},{"start":14153.06,"end":14155.06,"text":"其實也增加不多但是這就是有增加到"},{"start":14155.06,"end":14157.06,"text":"那時候"},{"start":14157.06,"end":14159.06,"text":"我不知道部長你好像是說要研議一下"},{"start":14159.06,"end":14161.06,"text":"有好幾個月了"},{"start":14161.06,"end":14163.06,"text":"我不知道部長研議的怎麼樣"},{"start":14163.06,"end":14165.06,"text":"因為他涉及到地方的一個教育前線"},{"start":14165.06,"end":14167.06,"text":"不會啊你去談啊"},{"start":14167.06,"end":14169.06,"text":"國民教育裡面"},{"start":14169.06,"end":14171.06,"text":"部長對不起我要跟你溝通一個觀念"},{"start":14171.67,"end":14173.67,"text":"教育雖然說國民教育遷到地方"},{"start":14173.67,"end":14175.67,"text":"但教育部是最高的主管機關"},{"start":14175.67,"end":14177.67,"text":"我在今天這邊跟你討論"},{"start":14177.67,"end":14179.67,"text":"如果你認為做這件事情對"},{"start":14179.67,"end":14181.67,"text":"教育是有幫助"},{"start":14181.67,"end":14183.67,"text":"那你教育部可以去跟地方去談啊"},{"start":14183.67,"end":14185.67,"text":"那你開會了嗎"},{"start":14185.67,"end":14187.67,"text":"我已經講幾個月了嘛"},{"start":14187.67,"end":14189.67,"text":"那你去開你去找了嗎"},{"start":14189.67,"end":14191.67,"text":"你找了嗎會議記錄給我啊"},{"start":14191.67,"end":14193.67,"text":"這是上個會期跟您說的啊"},{"start":14193.67,"end":14195.67,"text":"那如果每一次跟你說你提的都是說"},{"start":14195.67,"end":14197.67,"text":"那地方的事"},{"start":14197.67,"end":14199.67,"text":"然後沒有任何的動作"},{"start":14199.67,"end":14201.67,"text":"那部長你是在"},{"start":14201.67,"end":14203.67,"text":"所以教育都跟你無關嗎能推就推嗎"},{"start":14203.67,"end":14205.67,"text":"這是幾個月前就跟你講了嘛"},{"start":14205.67,"end":14207.67,"text":"你說這地方的事請問教育部"},{"start":14207.67,"end":14209.67,"text":"有沒有找地方政府來討論過"},{"start":14209.67,"end":14211.67,"text":"有沒有"},{"start":14213.38,"end":14215.38,"text":"跟委員報告一下"},{"start":14215.38,"end":14217.38,"text":"剛剛政委委員有問到類似您的問題"},{"start":14217.38,"end":14219.38,"text":"行政檢量的同時把這個"},{"start":14219.38,"end":14221.38,"text":"一般老師科研老師有沒有機會給他加薪"},{"start":14221.38,"end":14223.38,"text":"這個有列在我們這一次"},{"start":14223.38,"end":14225.38,"text":"在四月份跟地方政府談的議題裡面"},{"start":14225.38,"end":14227.38,"text":"我上個會"},{"start":14227.38,"end":14229.38,"text":"不好意思部長上個會期就講了"},{"start":14229.38,"end":14231.38,"text":"上個會期就講了"},{"start":14231.38,"end":14233.38,"text":"是是是"},{"start":14233.38,"end":14235.38,"text":"然後呢其實教育部你也可以編這個錢嘛"},{"start":14235.38,"end":14237.38,"text":"你們對於高教我上次就講了嘛"},{"start":14237.38,"end":14239.38,"text":"高教那時候特別預算送過來"},{"start":14239.38,"end":14241.38,"text":"就是幾百億"},{"start":14241.38,"end":14243.38,"text":"沒有但我覺得我們也都支持高教啊"},{"start":14243.38,"end":14245.38,"text":"那高教幾百億你覺得"},{"start":14245.38,"end":14247.38,"text":"不編這幾百億高教的韌性"},{"start":14247.38,"end":14249.38,"text":"會有問題那現在大家今天"},{"start":14249.38,"end":14251.38,"text":"討論的主題就是怎麼面臨掃尸化"},{"start":14251.38,"end":14253.38,"text":"剛剛那麼多委員都有提到"},{"start":14253.38,"end":14255.38,"text":"我的這個方案"},{"start":14255.38,"end":14257.38,"text":"還增加二十幾億"},{"start":14257.38,"end":14259.38,"text":"然後可以讓一般的老師"},{"start":14259.38,"end":14261.38,"text":"他不兼行政沒有當"},{"start":14261.38,"end":14263.38,"text":"老師他也可以透過減"},{"start":14263.38,"end":14265.38,"text":"終點的方式得到一點加薪"},{"start":14265.38,"end":14267.38,"text":"這是全國大概就是"},{"start":14267.38,"end":14269.38,"text":"二三十億然後你就是做不到"},{"start":14269.38,"end":14271.38,"text":"這個地方的事然後幾個月前"},{"start":14271.38,"end":14273.38,"text":"跟你們講你說那個地方"},{"start":14273.38,"end":14275.38,"text":"那你也沒有找地方啊"},{"start":14275.87,"end":14277.87,"text":"這是全國的嘛減終點難道是"},{"start":14277.87,"end":14279.87,"text":"台北市的事嗎是新北市的事嗎"},{"start":14279.87,"end":14281.87,"text":"要減當然全國一起減啊這"},{"start":14281.87,"end":14283.87,"text":"也是全國一體適用啊"},{"start":14283.87,"end":14285.87,"text":"為什麼教育部不願意呢"},{"start":14285.5,"end":14287.5,"text":"所以委員"},{"start":14287.93,"end":14289.93,"text":"沒有"},{"start":14289.93,"end":14291.93,"text":"兩個終點我剛講了嘛"},{"start":14291.93,"end":14293.93,"text":"這個跟地方當然我們還是"},{"start":14293.93,"end":14295.93,"text":"那你請問一下你去"},{"start":14295.93,"end":14297.93,"text":"那你去跟他們討論沒"},{"start":14297.93,"end":14299.93,"text":"那現在剛才署長已經有跟你報告說"},{"start":14299.93,"end":14301.93,"text":"我們四月已經把"},{"start":14301.93,"end":14303.93,"text":"我是上個會期講的你那時候"},{"start":14303.93,"end":14305.93,"text":"說要研議結果你現在"},{"start":14305.93,"end":14307.93,"text":"因為我來這邊問了所以你跟我說四月"},{"start":14308.99,"end":14310.99,"text":"那我沒有問就八月啦"},{"start":14310.99,"end":14312.99,"text":"我這邊沒有問就十二月啦"},{"start":14312.99,"end":14314.99,"text":"跟委員報告你不要大聲啊"},{"start":14314.99,"end":14316.99,"text":"跟大聲小聲什麼關係"},{"start":14316.99,"end":14318.99,"text":"那我跟部長報告"},{"start":14318.99,"end":14320.99,"text":"你回答問題不要"},{"start":14320.99,"end":14322.99,"text":"那麼蠻憨"},{"start":14322.99,"end":14324.99,"text":"你如果說要來站態度的話"},{"start":14324.99,"end":14326.99,"text":"要站態度大家一起來站啊"},{"start":14326.99,"end":14328.99,"text":"我也是就事論事"},{"start":14328.99,"end":14330.99,"text":"我們尊重地方也跟地方協調"},{"start":14330.99,"end":14332.99,"text":"希望有一個共通的一個團"},{"start":14332.99,"end":14334.99,"text":"你到現在為止都沒有做"},{"start":14334.99,"end":14336.99,"text":"我們還沒"},{"start":14336.99,"end":14338.99,"text":"做的比較慢不是說"},{"start":14340.5,"end":14342.5,"text":"是這樣沒有錯啊"},{"start":14342.5,"end":14344.5,"text":"好啦你要來站態度啦我不要大聲啦"},{"start":14344.5,"end":14346.5,"text":"那你可不可以積極"},{"start":14346.5,"end":14348.5,"text":"你可以做一個積極的教育部長嗎"},{"start":14348.5,"end":14350.5,"text":"你可以做一個面對問題解決問題"},{"start":14350.5,"end":14352.5,"text":"然後針對教育困境提出方案的部長嗎"},{"start":14352.5,"end":14354.5,"text":"我是一個非常積極的教育部長"},{"start":14354.5,"end":14356.5,"text":"喔是"},{"start":14356.5,"end":14358.5,"text":"自我感覺良好"},{"start":14358.5,"end":14360.5,"text":"阿偉我可不可以補充一下"},{"start":14360.5,"end":14362.5,"text":"因為你那時候提的時候我們是提"},{"start":14362.5,"end":14364.5,"text":"用十二月三十一號那個方案"},{"start":14364.5,"end":14366.5,"text":"已經先做了一波"},{"start":14366.5,"end":14368.5,"text":"現在地方政府要連續"},{"start":14368.5,"end":14370.5,"text":"加了那三項加薪"},{"start":14370.5,"end":14372.5,"text":"那有什麼"},{"start":14372.5,"end":14374.5,"text":"我是上個會期提出來"},{"start":14374.5,"end":14376.5,"text":"因為三項加薪衍生出來的問題"},{"start":14376.5,"end":14378.5,"text":"就是一般老師他的"},{"start":14378.5,"end":14380.5,"text":"代課費用增加如果他不是行政職不是"},{"start":14380.5,"end":14382.5,"text":"導師等於是這波加薪對他沒有"},{"start":14382.5,"end":14384.5,"text":"幫助但反而是付出更多成本"},{"start":14384.5,"end":14386.5,"text":"這個是上個會議講不是十二月"},{"start":14386.5,"end":14388.5,"text":"底的方案我們是十二月"},{"start":14388.5,"end":14390.5,"text":"底宣布那個方案所以"},{"start":14390.5,"end":14392.5,"text":"您提的時候不是因應"},{"start":14392.5,"end":14394.5,"text":"那個三項加薪"},{"start":14394.5,"end":14396.5,"text":"三項加薪是在一月份你又在"},{"start":14396.5,"end":14398.5,"text":"我提過說能不能夠也考慮"},{"start":14398.5,"end":14400.5,"text":"我跟委員回報說"},{"start":14400.5,"end":14402.5,"text":"這一個因為涉及到地方政府"},{"start":14402.5,"end":14404.5,"text":"容我在最近一次通盤性的"},{"start":14404.5,"end":14406.5,"text":"研議中一起來規劃"},{"start":14406.5,"end":14408.5,"text":"因為這個要由剛剛委員講的"},{"start":14408.5,"end":14410.5,"text":"你說的減兩節"},{"start":14410.5,"end":14412.5,"text":"地方政府在十二月他們已經花了"},{"start":14412.5,"end":14414.5,"text":"大概二十一億"},{"start":14414.5,"end":14416.5,"text":"是不是容我在跟地方政府溝通"},{"start":14416.5,"end":14418.5,"text":"什麼時候"},{"start":14418.5,"end":14420.5,"text":"那我們定一個日期出來"},{"start":14420.5,"end":14422.5,"text":"剛剛有講到四月中以前"},{"start":14422.5,"end":14424.5,"text":"四月中會完成溝通是不是"},{"start":14424.5,"end":14426.5,"text":"因為這會涉及到五項方案"},{"start":14426.5,"end":14428.5,"text":"剛才跟陳培英委員講到五項"},{"start":14428.5,"end":14430.5,"text":"其中有含一項您提到"},{"start":14430.5,"end":14432.5,"text":"這一類要不要用減中"},{"start":14432.5,"end":14434.5,"text":"這一類思考讓老師"},{"start":14434.5,"end":14436.5,"text":"行政減量但恐怕沒有辦法減"},{"start":14436.5,"end":14438.5,"text":"但有點實質加薪"},{"start":14438.5,"end":14440.5,"text":"這些都是我們的規劃可是"},{"start":14440.5,"end":14442.5,"text":"時序上跟委員再補充一下"},{"start":14442.5,"end":14444.5,"text":"剛剛的時序是這個樣子"},{"start":14444.5,"end":14446.5,"text":"謝謝 四月是不是"},{"start":14446.5,"end":14448.5,"text":"四月是不是"},{"start":14448.5,"end":14450.5,"text":"到時候我四月再來問"},{"start":14450.5,"end":14452.5,"text":"再來我再請教一下"},{"start":14452.5,"end":14454.5,"text":"我已經學測開始放榜"},{"start":14454.5,"end":14456.5,"text":"我這邊有接到一些學生的抱怨"},{"start":14456.5,"end":14458.5,"text":"也反應給部長"},{"start":14458.5,"end":14460.5,"text":"署長知道"},{"start":14460.99,"end":14462.99,"text":"如果要申請用學測"},{"start":14462.99,"end":14464.99,"text":"要申請入學是不是要準備學習地層檔案"},{"start":14466,"end":14468,"text":"要準備學習地層檔案"},{"start":14468,"end":14470,"text":"那結果呢"},{"start":14469.85,"end":14471.85,"text":"有學生呢"},{"start":14471.85,"end":14473.85,"text":"學測其實說考得也不錯啦"},{"start":14473.85,"end":14475.85,"text":"但是可能因為有些學校"},{"start":14475.85,"end":14477.85,"text":"要入學他有個門檻嘛"},{"start":14477.85,"end":14479.85,"text":"比如說國文加社會要打到幾分"},{"start":14479.85,"end":14481.85,"text":"或是哪一科加哪一科幾分"},{"start":14481.85,"end":14483.85,"text":"可是有時候就差一分兩分"},{"start":14483.85,"end":14485.85,"text":"他就沒有辦法去申請"},{"start":14485.85,"end":14487.85,"text":"他理想的學校"},{"start":14487.85,"end":14489.85,"text":"但是他的學習地層檔案已經做一大堆"},{"start":14489.85,"end":14491.85,"text":"所以學生就在抱怨"},{"start":14491.85,"end":14493.85,"text":"那為什麼既然我沒有資格"},{"start":14493.85,"end":14495.85,"text":"沒有機會去申請這些學校"},{"start":14495.85,"end":14497.85,"text":"為什麼要做這些學習地層檔案呢"},{"start":14497.85,"end":14499.85,"text":"因為他課堂之前的做法是說"},{"start":14499.85,"end":14501.85,"text":"申請學校就是你如果達到"},{"start":14501.85,"end":14503.85,"text":"申請那間學校的標準的時候"},{"start":14503.85,"end":14505.85,"text":"給你幾個月"},{"start":14505.85,"end":14507.85,"text":"讓你去準備備審資料"},{"start":14507.85,"end":14509.85,"text":"以前的做法是這樣"},{"start":14509.85,"end":14511.85,"text":"可是後來把他改成說"},{"start":14511.85,"end":14513.85,"text":"有一些可能教育專家吧"},{"start":14513.85,"end":14515.85,"text":"認為說那這樣學生壓力太大"},{"start":14515.85,"end":14517.85,"text":"要他在兩三個月之內"},{"start":14517.85,"end":14519.85,"text":"就要準備那麼多資料"},{"start":14519.85,"end":14521.85,"text":"那乾脆就讓他高一就開始"},{"start":14519.92,"end":14521.92,"text":"結果反而就造成我剛講的那個狀況"},{"start":14524.27,"end":14526.27,"text":"那我再提一個數據"},{"start":14526.27,"end":14528.27,"text":"我相信教育部應該很清楚"},{"start":14528.27,"end":14530.27,"text":"學習地層檔案現在越來越大家不想教"},{"start":14530.27,"end":14532.27,"text":"最新的數據"},{"start":14532.27,"end":14534.27,"text":"學習成果的未提交比例"},{"start":14534.27,"end":14536.27,"text":"都接近五成了"},{"start":14536.27,"end":14538.27,"text":"在高一的時候"},{"start":14538.27,"end":14540.27,"text":"高一應該是比較聽話的時候"},{"start":14540.27,"end":14542.27,"text":"剛進到這個環境還願意配合這個體制"},{"start":14542.27,"end":14544.27,"text":"到高三可能七成多不想教"},{"start":14545.3,"end":14547.3,"text":"所以這個學習檔案真的是應該"},{"start":14547.3,"end":14549.3,"text":"到了檢討的時候"},{"start":14549.3,"end":14551.3,"text":"他是不是真的有必要"},{"start":14551.3,"end":14553.3,"text":"讓學生做這件事情"},{"start":14553.3,"end":14555.3,"text":"不僅是對很多人"},{"start":14555.3,"end":14557.3,"text":"覺得他來白費時間"},{"start":14557.3,"end":14559.3,"text":"願意準備白費時間"},{"start":14559.3,"end":14561.3,"text":"然後很多人是乾脆不理"},{"start":14559.96,"end":14561.96,"text":"那請問一下這個"},{"start":14561.96,"end":14563.96,"text":"有達到當初你想要做學習地層檔案的目的嗎"},{"start":14563.96,"end":14565.96,"text":"部長"},{"start":14565.36,"end":14567.36,"text":"這個跟你也沒關係"},{"start":14567.36,"end":14569.36,"text":"我覺得大家也要就事問事"},{"start":14569.36,"end":14571.36,"text":"因為這個不是你推的"},{"start":14571.36,"end":14573.36,"text":"但是既然在這個位置上面"},{"start":14573.36,"end":14575.36,"text":"假設其他人推的東西"},{"start":14575.36,"end":14577.36,"text":"遇到的問題"},{"start":14577.36,"end":14579.36,"text":"那是不是由你來解決"},{"start":14579.36,"end":14581.36,"text":"那你也是功德一件"},{"start":14580.33,"end":14582.33,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":14582.33,"end":14584.33,"text":"確實我們現在也看到因為"},{"start":14584.33,"end":14586.33,"text":"少子化以後我們大學供給量"},{"start":14586.33,"end":14588.33,"text":"遠大於需求量"},{"start":14588.33,"end":14590.33,"text":"所以有一定的一個程度"},{"start":14590.33,"end":14592.33,"text":"委員剛才也提到了"},{"start":14592.33,"end":14594.33,"text":"就是說他不需要靠"},{"start":14593.15,"end":14595.15,"text":"那一個學習地層檔案"},{"start":14595.15,"end":14597.15,"text":"他就可以進入到大學"},{"start":14597.15,"end":14599.15,"text":"我們現在已經折成這個大學入學考試"},{"start":14599.15,"end":14601.15,"text":"這個委員會"},{"start":14601.15,"end":14603.15,"text":"跟高中端做一個"},{"start":14603.15,"end":14605.15,"text":"針對這個學習地層檔案"},{"start":14605.15,"end":14607.15,"text":"在政策上做一個認真的討論"},{"start":14607.15,"end":14609.15,"text":"看到底要有"},{"start":14609.15,"end":14611.15,"text":"什麼樣的一個因應"},{"start":14611.15,"end":14613.15,"text":"與實際性的一個方法"},{"start":14613.15,"end":14615.15,"text":"簡單來講 如果有一些大學"},{"start":14615.15,"end":14617.15,"text":"他事實上他就"},{"start":14617.15,"end":14619.15,"text":"不管申請入學"},{"start":14619.15,"end":14621.15,"text":"或者特殊選才"},{"start":14621.15,"end":14623.15,"text":"他就不需要靠這個方法"},{"start":14623.15,"end":14625.15,"text":"他就不需要靠這個方法"},{"start":14625.15,"end":14627.15,"text":"他就不需要靠這個方法"},{"start":14627.15,"end":14629.15,"text":"他就不需要靠這個方法"},{"start":14629.15,"end":14631.15,"text":"他就不需要靠這個方法"},{"start":14631.15,"end":14633.15,"text":"他就不需要靠這個方法"},{"start":14633.15,"end":14635.15,"text":"他就不需要靠這個方法"},{"start":14635.15,"end":14637.15,"text":"他就不需要靠這個方法"},{"start":14637.15,"end":14639.15,"text":"他就不需要靠這個方法"},{"start":14639.15,"end":14641.15,"text":"他就不需要靠這個方法"},{"start":14641.15,"end":14643.15,"text":"他就不需要靠這個方法"},{"start":14643.15,"end":14645.15,"text":"他就不需要靠這個方法"},{"start":14645.15,"end":14647.15,"text":"他就不需要靠這個方法"},{"start":14647.15,"end":14649.15,"text":"他就不需要靠這個方法"},{"start":14622.35,"end":14624.35,"text":"或者環境他已經不需要用到"},{"start":14624.35,"end":14626.35,"text":"或者有一些大學他需要"},{"start":14627.66,"end":14629.66,"text":"真正去看學生的一個學習歷程檔案"},{"start":14629.66,"end":14631.66,"text":"真正去看學生的一個學習歷程檔案"},{"start":14631.66,"end":14633.66,"text":"我們還是希望認真的來思考這個學習歷程檔案"},{"start":14633.66,"end":14635.66,"text":"我們還是希望認真的來思考這個學習歷程檔案"},{"start":14635.66,"end":14637.66,"text":"他們的選才跟學生的一個未來的發展"},{"start":14637.66,"end":14639.66,"text":"他們的選才跟學生的一個未來的發展"},{"start":14639.66,"end":14641.66,"text":"上搭的一個價值性"},{"start":14641.66,"end":14643.66,"text":"部長 因為現在是多元入學"},{"start":14643.66,"end":14645.66,"text":"有的入學方式本來就不用學習歷程檔案"},{"start":14645.66,"end":14647.66,"text":"比如說你考分科就不用學習歷程檔案"},{"start":14647.66,"end":14649.66,"text":"但是我們現在學習歷程檔案"},{"start":14649.66,"end":14651.66,"text":"我現在是針對申請入學的部分"},{"start":14651.66,"end":14653.66,"text":"學測加上學習歷程檔案的部分"},{"start":14653.66,"end":14655.66,"text":"那這個部分"},{"start":14655.66,"end":14657.66,"text":"我們認為說也不需要"},{"start":14657.66,"end":14659.66,"text":"然後還有你會造成學生的負擔"},{"start":14659.66,"end":14661.66,"text":"高一高就開始做"},{"start":14661.66,"end":14663.66,"text":"高一高就開始做"},{"start":14663.66,"end":14665.66,"text":"結果他因為學測沒考好"},{"start":14665.66,"end":14667.66,"text":"全部都白做了"},{"start":14667.66,"end":14669.66,"text":"那為什麼不能恢復像以前一樣"},{"start":14669.16,"end":14671.16,"text":"就是說他要申請再備審資料就好"},{"start":14671.16,"end":14673.16,"text":"為什麼要強迫他們高一高二就要做"},{"start":14674.31,"end":14676.31,"text":"那當然你們會講說"},{"start":14676.31,"end":14678.31,"text":"高一高二就可以來做的話"},{"start":14678.31,"end":14680.31,"text":"校園什麼什麼自主探索"},{"start":14680.31,"end":14682.31,"text":"那你們去評估一下"},{"start":14682.31,"end":14684.31,"text":"他的成效呢"},{"start":14684.31,"end":14686.31,"text":"這個其實也有對老師增加負擔"},{"start":14686.31,"end":14688.31,"text":"因為學生要做要上傳"},{"start":14688.31,"end":14690.31,"text":"老師也要看"},{"start":14690.31,"end":14692.31,"text":"所以如果一件事情大家都認為說"},{"start":14692.31,"end":14694.31,"text":"他沒有達到你當初設定的目標"},{"start":14694.31,"end":14696.31,"text":"反而製造一些困擾的時候"},{"start":14696.31,"end":14698.31,"text":"對老師對學生都有困擾的時候"},{"start":14698.31,"end":14700.31,"text":"那這個東西還有必要持續下去嗎"},{"start":14700.31,"end":14702.31,"text":"我現在是講這件事情"},{"start":14702.31,"end":14704.31,"text":"認真是委員所關心"},{"start":14704.31,"end":14706.31,"text":"好不好那一樣啦"},{"start":14706.31,"end":14708.31,"text":"這個學系人檔案"},{"start":14709.42,"end":14711.42,"text":"這個每次講都說會思考"},{"start":14711.42,"end":14713.42,"text":"會研議會什麼我們壓一個日期好不好"},{"start":14713.42,"end":14715.42,"text":"你是不是可以在什麼"},{"start":14715.42,"end":14717.42,"text":"什麼時間點把你們的決定"},{"start":14717.42,"end":14719.42,"text":"或是怎麼改良"},{"start":14719.42,"end":14721.42,"text":"要繼續還是怎麼做給大家一個報告"},{"start":14721.42,"end":14723.42,"text":"好不好"},{"start":14723.42,"end":14725.42,"text":"跟委員報告針對這個學習歷程檔案"},{"start":14725.42,"end":14727.42,"text":"其實我們每個月都有召開所謂的"},{"start":14727.42,"end":14729.42,"text":"剛才部長所說的考照連動小組"},{"start":14729.42,"end":14731.42,"text":"的檢討但是在裡面還沒有"},{"start":14731.42,"end":14733.42,"text":"形成一個比較完"},{"start":14733.42,"end":14735.42,"text":"就是完善還是有人認為說"},{"start":14735.42,"end":14737.42,"text":"根據108課剛還是要讓學生"},{"start":14737.42,"end":14739.42,"text":"提報這個所謂的學習歷程檔案"},{"start":14739.42,"end":14741.42,"text":"但是也有部分的學者專家"},{"start":14741.42,"end":14743.42,"text":"就如同委員剛才所說的"},{"start":14743.42,"end":14745.42,"text":"可以做一些調整跟改變"},{"start":14745.42,"end":14747.42,"text":"那雙方還沒有具體的共識"},{"start":14747.42,"end":14749.42,"text":"這個我們會持續"},{"start":14749.42,"end":14751.42,"text":"沒有 司長我們不能等了"},{"start":14751.42,"end":14753.42,"text":"如果要等到全世界"},{"start":14753.42,"end":14755.42,"text":"大家意見都一致的話"},{"start":14755.42,"end":14757.42,"text":"那這個事情可能108課剛出來了"},{"start":14757.42,"end":14759.42,"text":"好不好"},{"start":14759.42,"end":14761.42,"text":"你壓一個日期就要"},{"start":14761.42,"end":14763.42,"text":"做個決定嘛利大於弊"},{"start":14763.42,"end":14765.42,"text":"就要做個決定了不是讓他一直拖"},{"start":14765.42,"end":14767.42,"text":"當然你們的感覺都是"},{"start":14767.42,"end":14769.42,"text":"一動不如一靜可是現在這個問題"},{"start":14769.42,"end":14771.42,"text":"衍生出來很多人在抱怨"},{"start":14771.42,"end":14773.42,"text":"你要做個決斷"},{"start":14773.42,"end":14775.42,"text":"那你如果認為說這個東西好"},{"start":14775.42,"end":14777.42,"text":"要繼續你也跟社會大眾公布一下"},{"start":14777.42,"end":14779.42,"text":"各位我們報告我們"},{"start":14779.42,"end":14781.42,"text":"你壓一個日期沒關係"},{"start":14781.42,"end":14783.42,"text":"三個月內"},{"start":14783.42,"end":14785.42,"text":"利弊分析提供給那個"},{"start":14785.42,"end":14787.42,"text":"利弊分析之外要告訴大家說怎麼做"},{"start":14787.42,"end":14789.42,"text":"好不好具體的做法"},{"start":14789.42,"end":14791.42,"text":"具體的做法還是要凌確"},{"start":14791.42,"end":14793.42,"text":"好不好具體的做法謝謝"},{"start":14796.6,"end":14798.6,"text":"好謝謝葉元之委員"},{"start":14798.6,"end":14800.6,"text":"部長 署長請回座"},{"start":14801.54,"end":14803.54,"text":"接下來有請吳立華專委"},{"start":14810.27,"end":14812.27,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":14811.8,"end":14813.8,"text":"有請"},{"start":14813.19,"end":14815.19,"text":"政部長還有原民會"},{"start":14816.36,"end":14818.36,"text":"有請政部長原民會"},{"start":14823.36,"end":14825.36,"text":"委員好"},{"start":14824.59,"end":14826.59,"text":"部長好辛苦了"},{"start":14826.72,"end":14828.72,"text":"部長我"},{"start":14829.23,"end":14831.23,"text":"不曉得您知不知道"},{"start":14831.46,"end":14833.46,"text":"原住民的人口"},{"start":14834.94,"end":14836.94,"text":"目前占全國"},{"start":14838.33,"end":14840.33,"text":"總數"},{"start":14840,"end":14842,"text":"到"},{"start":14840.81,"end":14842.81,"text":"BV"},{"start":14841.84,"end":14843.84,"text":"你知道嗎"},{"start":14844.51,"end":14846.51,"text":"不到3%"},{"start":14846.26,"end":14848.26,"text":"這是很聰明的回答"},{"start":14848.26,"end":14850.26,"text":"好"},{"start":14850.26,"end":14852.26,"text":"那我跟部長來說明"},{"start":14852.89,"end":14854.89,"text":"其實在"},{"start":14854.89,"end":14856.89,"text":"我們看那個數據2004年的時候"},{"start":14858.58,"end":14862.58,"text":"我們全國人數有2269萬人"},{"start":14863.63,"end":14865.63,"text":"2013年2337萬人"},{"start":14865.63,"end":14867.63,"text":"2013年2337萬人"},{"start":14867.63,"end":14869.63,"text":"但是2026年"},{"start":14869.63,"end":14871.63,"text":"但是2026年"},{"start":14871.63,"end":14873.63,"text":"2026年下滑到2328萬人"},{"start":14873.63,"end":14875.63,"text":"相對的我們來看原住民的人口"},{"start":14875.63,"end":14877.63,"text":"相對的我們來看原住民的人口"},{"start":14877.63,"end":14879.63,"text":"它從44.3萬"},{"start":14879.63,"end":14881.63,"text":"它從44.3萬爬升到"},{"start":14881.63,"end":14883.63,"text":"53.2萬"},{"start":14883.63,"end":14885.63,"text":"再爬升到現在的"},{"start":14885.63,"end":14887.63,"text":"62.9萬"},{"start":14887.63,"end":14889.63,"text":"那如果以比例來看的話"},{"start":14889.63,"end":14891.63,"text":"那如果以比例來看的話"},{"start":14891.63,"end":14893.63,"text":"2014年到現在"},{"start":14893.63,"end":14895.63,"text":"2026年它從1.9%"},{"start":14896.92,"end":14898.92,"text":"來到2.2%"},{"start":14898.92,"end":14900.92,"text":"再來到現在的2.7%"},{"start":14900.92,"end":14902.92,"text":"再來到現在的2.7%"},{"start":14902.92,"end":14904.92,"text":"所以剛才的部長的回答是"},{"start":14904.92,"end":14906.92,"text":"非常有智慧的3%以下"},{"start":14906.92,"end":14908.92,"text":"那我覺得"},{"start":14908.92,"end":14910.92,"text":"部長如果您看到"},{"start":14910.92,"end":14912.92,"text":"這樣的數據你會不會覺得"},{"start":14912.92,"end":14914.92,"text":"原住民"},{"start":14914.92,"end":14916.92,"text":"沒有少子化的現象"},{"start":14917.36,"end":14919.36,"text":"對國家很有貢獻"},{"start":14920.87,"end":14922.87,"text":"部長您覺得如何"},{"start":14923.9,"end":14925.9,"text":"我想原住民"},{"start":14926.15,"end":14928.15,"text":"這一個的"},{"start":14928.15,"end":14930.15,"text":"這些族群"},{"start":14930.15,"end":14932.15,"text":"事實上在我心目中"},{"start":14932.15,"end":14934.15,"text":"充滿創意"},{"start":14934.15,"end":14936.15,"text":"而且才華很穎"},{"start":14936.15,"end":14938.15,"text":"我有許多同學他們"},{"start":14938.15,"end":14940.15,"text":"就展現這樣的"},{"start":14940.15,"end":14942.15,"text":"不管這一個從藝術"},{"start":14942.15,"end":14944.15,"text":"或者從文學"},{"start":14944.15,"end":14946.15,"text":"從社會觀"},{"start":14946.15,"end":14948.15,"text":"有很多"},{"start":14948.15,"end":14950.15,"text":"另外我們也看到"},{"start":14950.15,"end":14952.15,"text":"台灣現在"},{"start":14950.11,"end":14952.11,"text":"有一定比例的"},{"start":14952.11,"end":14954.11,"text":"我們在所謂的"},{"start":14954.11,"end":14956.11,"text":"在世界上看到台灣的貢獻"},{"start":14956.11,"end":14958.11,"text":"台灣之光事實上也是來自於我們原住民"},{"start":14958.11,"end":14960.11,"text":"譬如說包含經典賽"},{"start":14960.11,"end":14962.11,"text":"包含許多的這些國際的運動"},{"start":14962.11,"end":14964.11,"text":"這個競技上的一些"},{"start":14964.11,"end":14966.11,"text":"我們光是看每一次"},{"start":14966.11,"end":14968.11,"text":"出國比賽的棒球隊"},{"start":14968.11,"end":14970.11,"text":"大概都有一半"},{"start":14970.11,"end":14972.11,"text":"百分之五十的比例"},{"start":14972.11,"end":14974.11,"text":"是原住民"},{"start":14974.11,"end":14976.11,"text":"所以確實很有貢獻"},{"start":14976.11,"end":14978.11,"text":"您提到如果101"},{"start":14978.11,"end":14980.11,"text":"大樓"},{"start":14980.4,"end":14982.4,"text":"雖然不是原住民去攀登的"},{"start":14982.4,"end":14984.4,"text":"但是101大樓"},{"start":14984.4,"end":14986.4,"text":"是很多原住民去蓋的"},{"start":14986.4,"end":14988.4,"text":"甚至是目前"},{"start":14988.4,"end":14990.4,"text":"勞動部統計"},{"start":14990.4,"end":14992.4,"text":"全國"},{"start":14992.4,"end":14994.4,"text":"前五大的缺工行業"},{"start":14994.4,"end":14996.4,"text":"恰恰是原住民的"},{"start":14996.4,"end":14998.4,"text":"前五大投入的行業"},{"start":14998.4,"end":15000.4,"text":"所以沒有人要做的"},{"start":15000.4,"end":15002.4,"text":"都是原住民在做"},{"start":15002.4,"end":15004.4,"text":"確實對我們這個國家"},{"start":15004.4,"end":15006.4,"text":"貢獻很大"},{"start":15006.4,"end":15008.4,"text":"但是我們要靠"},{"start":15008.4,"end":15010.4,"text":"我們要靠教育翻身"},{"start":15010.4,"end":15012.4,"text":"所以在我們的原教法"},{"start":15012.4,"end":15014.4,"text":"的第十一條"},{"start":15014.4,"end":15016.4,"text":"特別這樣子寫著"},{"start":15016.4,"end":15018.4,"text":"中央政府因寬列預算"},{"start":15018.4,"end":15020.4,"text":"專款辦理原住民"},{"start":15020.4,"end":15022.4,"text":"組教育其比率"},{"start":15022.4,"end":15024.4,"text":"合計不得少於"},{"start":15024.4,"end":15026.4,"text":"中央教育主管機關"},{"start":15026.4,"end":15028.4,"text":"預算總額百分之"},{"start":15028.4,"end":15030.4,"text":"一點九並依"},{"start":15030.4,"end":15032.4,"text":"其需求逐年成長"},{"start":15032.4,"end":15034.4,"text":"這個是2004年的"},{"start":15034.4,"end":15036.4,"text":"法條"},{"start":15036.4,"end":15038.4,"text":"在2013年的時候"},{"start":15038.4,"end":15040.4,"text":"我們把它修到了"},{"start":15040.4,"end":15042.4,"text":"百分之2.2"},{"start":15043.23,"end":15045.23,"text":"這個是十年的"},{"start":15045.23,"end":15047.23,"text":"一個調整"},{"start":15047.23,"end":15049.23,"text":"但是又過了13年"},{"start":15049.23,"end":15051.23,"text":"到現在又時隔13年"},{"start":15051.23,"end":15053.23,"text":"我們的比例"},{"start":15053.23,"end":15055.23,"text":"又來到了百分之2.7"},{"start":15055.23,"end":15057.23,"text":"想要了解一下部長"},{"start":15057.23,"end":15059.23,"text":"您覺得"},{"start":15059.23,"end":15061.23,"text":"在您的任內該不該"},{"start":15061.23,"end":15063.23,"text":"做這樣的調整"},{"start":15063.63,"end":15065.63,"text":"我想謝謝委員關心原住民"},{"start":15065.63,"end":15067.63,"text":"許多教育的一些經費"},{"start":15067.63,"end":15069.63,"text":"那確實我們這些年"},{"start":15069.63,"end":15071.63,"text":"在根據法令上的編制"},{"start":15071.63,"end":15073.63,"text":"我們以2015年來講"},{"start":15073.63,"end":15075.63,"text":"已經到2.54"},{"start":15075.63,"end":15077.63,"text":"那如果人口比例"},{"start":15077.63,"end":15079.63,"text":"好像又似乎稍微"},{"start":15079.63,"end":15081.63,"text":"少了一點"},{"start":15081.63,"end":15083.63,"text":"但是怎麼樣對原住民教育"},{"start":15083.63,"end":15085.63,"text":"投入更多的一些資源"},{"start":15085.63,"end":15087.63,"text":"包括對原住民人才的培育"},{"start":15087.63,"end":15089.63,"text":"我想這教育部基本立場"},{"start":15089.63,"end":15091.63,"text":"跟委員是一致的"},{"start":15091.63,"end":15093.63,"text":"但我也想聽一聽"},{"start":15093.63,"end":15095.63,"text":"因為我知道原民會"},{"start":15095.63,"end":15097.63,"text":"在這一路上"},{"start":15097.63,"end":15099.63,"text":"應該都是教文處"},{"start":15099.63,"end":15101.63,"text":"在負責這個業務"},{"start":15101.63,"end":15103.63,"text":"那想聽一下表示一下意見"},{"start":15103.63,"end":15105.63,"text":"原民會的意見"},{"start":15105.63,"end":15107.63,"text":"謝謝委員對我們原住民族孩子的關心"},{"start":15107.63,"end":15111.63,"text":"我想原教好規定的"},{"start":15111.63,"end":15113.63,"text":"原住民教育的總經費"},{"start":15113.63,"end":15115.63,"text":"的百分之1.94十三年前"},{"start":15115.63,"end":15117.63,"text":"修法的時候所訂定"},{"start":15117.63,"end":15119.63,"text":"不過我們這幾年跟教育部合作"},{"start":15119.63,"end":15121.63,"text":"已經把我們的年度預算的"},{"start":15121.63,"end":15123.63,"text":"編列已經達到了"},{"start":15123.63,"end":15127.63,"text":"2.54已經遠超過法律規定的比例"},{"start":15128.97,"end":15130.97,"text":"要在法定的"},{"start":15130.97,"end":15132.97,"text":"修法裡面去把這個比例再提升"},{"start":15132.97,"end":15134.97,"text":"我們認為目前的現狀"},{"start":15134.97,"end":15136.97,"text":"是已經有達到這樣的一個"},{"start":15136.97,"end":15138.97,"text":"實際的需求"},{"start":15138.97,"end":15140.97,"text":"不過我要提醒的是說"},{"start":15140.97,"end":15142.97,"text":"因為從去年那個平埔族群身分法"},{"start":15142.97,"end":15144.97,"text":"通過之後未來今年度開始"},{"start":15144.97,"end":15146.97,"text":"會有很多很多的"},{"start":15146.97,"end":15148.97,"text":"平埔族群會回到原住民族的家庭"},{"start":15148.97,"end":15150.97,"text":"所以未來原住民教育的預算"},{"start":15150.97,"end":15152.97,"text":"不能以現在的人口數來算"},{"start":15152.97,"end":15154.97,"text":"應該是要再考慮"},{"start":15154.97,"end":15156.97,"text":"未來平埔族群加入之後"},{"start":15156.97,"end":15158.97,"text":"會有更多的需求會加進來"},{"start":15158.97,"end":15160.97,"text":"這是可能我們跟教育部一起"},{"start":15160.97,"end":15162.97,"text":"要再來思考的"},{"start":15162.97,"end":15164.97,"text":"好謝謝喔"},{"start":15164.97,"end":15166.97,"text":"謝謝元明慧的一個回應"},{"start":15166.97,"end":15168.97,"text":"因為我們希望可以開始"},{"start":15168.97,"end":15172.97,"text":"啟動原教法第11條的修正"},{"start":15172.97,"end":15174.97,"text":"因為也已經隔很久"},{"start":15174.97,"end":15176.97,"text":"人口比例也往上升"},{"start":15176.97,"end":15178.97,"text":"那更重要的是"},{"start":15178.97,"end":15180.97,"text":"我們從目前高教"},{"start":15180.97,"end":15182.97,"text":"原住民的初在學歷"},{"start":15182.97,"end":15184.97,"text":"跟全體高教生的初在學歷"},{"start":15184.97,"end":15186.97,"text":"那個是斷崖式的差距"},{"start":15186.97,"end":15188.97,"text":"將近30%"},{"start":15188.97,"end":15190.97,"text":"所以呢我覺得在這個部分"},{"start":15190.97,"end":15192.97,"text":"需要更多的教育經費"},{"start":15192.97,"end":15194.97,"text":"來協助我們原住民的學生"},{"start":15194.97,"end":15196.97,"text":"那我也謝謝部長"},{"start":15196.97,"end":15198.97,"text":"長期以來去肯定這樣的做法"},{"start":15198.97,"end":15200.97,"text":"那接下來就是"},{"start":15200.97,"end":15202.97,"text":"想要提到的就是"},{"start":15202.97,"end":15204.97,"text":"為什麼我們需要更多的經費"},{"start":15204.97,"end":15206.97,"text":"就像陳培瑜委員剛剛講的"},{"start":15206.97,"end":15208.97,"text":"實驗三法"},{"start":15208.97,"end":15210.97,"text":"施行也已經十年了"},{"start":15210.97,"end":15212.97,"text":"那實驗三法"},{"start":15212.97,"end":15214.97,"text":"也已經十年了"},{"start":15214.97,"end":15216.97,"text":"那也需要去做一些討論"},{"start":15216.97,"end":15218.97,"text":"所以可能會辦公聽會"},{"start":15218.97,"end":15220.97,"text":"那原住民的部分"},{"start":15220.97,"end":15222.97,"text":"原住民實驗學校"},{"start":15222.97,"end":15224.97,"text":"很多也都已經"},{"start":15224.97,"end":15226.97,"text":"走了一段時間"},{"start":15226.97,"end":15228.97,"text":"他們也很迷惘"},{"start":15228.97,"end":15230.97,"text":"不知道下一步何去何從"},{"start":15230.97,"end":15232.97,"text":"那甚至是原住民族學校法"},{"start":15232.97,"end":15234.97,"text":"被明定在原教法裡面"},{"start":15234.97,"end":15236.97,"text":"是要訂定的子法"},{"start":15236.97,"end":15238.97,"text":"可是時至今日"},{"start":15238.97,"end":15240.97,"text":"大家對於什麼是原住民族學校"},{"start":15240.97,"end":15242.97,"text":"也沒有想法沒有共識"},{"start":15242.97,"end":15244.97,"text":"所以也謝謝原民會"},{"start":15244.97,"end":15246.97,"text":"已經編列經費"},{"start":15246.97,"end":15248.97,"text":"開始做示範"},{"start":15248.97,"end":15250.97,"text":"但是這些都很需要"},{"start":15250.97,"end":15252.97,"text":"更多的原住民的教育經費"},{"start":15252.97,"end":15254.97,"text":"來支撐"},{"start":15254.97,"end":15256.97,"text":"所以在這個部分就特別的"},{"start":15256.97,"end":15258.97,"text":"要請部長來支持"},{"start":15258.97,"end":15260.97,"text":"那因為今天也排了一個"},{"start":15260.97,"end":15262.97,"text":"就是關於教師法"},{"start":15262.97,"end":15264.97,"text":"第25條的"},{"start":15264.97,"end":15266.97,"text":"一個審查"},{"start":15266.97,"end":15268.97,"text":"那這個是源自於"},{"start":15268.97,"end":15270.97,"text":"源自於這些年"},{"start":15270.97,"end":15272.97,"text":"發生了一件事"},{"start":15272.97,"end":15274.97,"text":"因為109年"},{"start":15274.97,"end":15276.97,"text":"修訂的教師解聘辦法"},{"start":15276.97,"end":15278.97,"text":"就是有了"},{"start":15278.97,"end":15280.97,"text":"校事會議這個名稱"},{"start":15280.97,"end":15282.97,"text":"校園事件處理法"},{"start":15282.97,"end":15284.97,"text":"那麼到了112年的時候"},{"start":15284.97,"end":15286.97,"text":"為了要說"},{"start":15286.97,"end":15288.97,"text":"避免同一個事件"},{"start":15288.97,"end":15290.97,"text":"重複的調查不同的機制運作"},{"start":15290.97,"end":15292.97,"text":"有不同的調查結果"},{"start":15292.97,"end":15294.97,"text":"本來是好意"},{"start":15294.97,"end":15296.97,"text":"所以希望把性別"},{"start":15296.97,"end":15298.97,"text":"性別事件以外的"},{"start":15298.97,"end":15300.97,"text":"所有施對身的違法事件"},{"start":15300.97,"end":15302.97,"text":"全部都整合到這個"},{"start":15302.97,"end":15304.97,"text":"校事會議裡面"},{"start":15304.97,"end":15306.97,"text":"結果沒有想到美意不成"},{"start":15306.97,"end":15308.97,"text":"反而變成一場夢魘"},{"start":15309.95,"end":15311.95,"text":"那我們可以看到"},{"start":15311.95,"end":15313.95,"text":"我們也有請教育部幫我們做統計"},{"start":15313.95,"end":15315.95,"text":"才上"},{"start":15317.31,"end":15319.31,"text":"才實施校事會議的"},{"start":15319.31,"end":15321.31,"text":"這樣的一個整合型"},{"start":15321.31,"end":15323.31,"text":"結果短短一年發現"},{"start":15323.31,"end":15325.31,"text":"原來80%的投訴"},{"start":15325.31,"end":15327.31,"text":"案件是不成立的"},{"start":15327.31,"end":15329.31,"text":"而且成立的當中呢"},{"start":15329.31,"end":15331.31,"text":"其實只有50%是需要"},{"start":15331.31,"end":15333.31,"text":"申誡的"},{"start":15333.31,"end":15335.31,"text":"那其他呢造成我們"},{"start":15335.31,"end":15337.31,"text":"老師這麼樣的一個動盪"},{"start":15337.31,"end":15339.31,"text":"所以在這邊我們"},{"start":15339.31,"end":15341.31,"text":"就是要提到說"},{"start":15341.31,"end":15343.31,"text":"我們必須要把"},{"start":15343.31,"end":15345.31,"text":"老師的尊嚴找回來"},{"start":15345.31,"end":15347.31,"text":"那我也知道部長您上任以來"},{"start":15347.31,"end":15349.31,"text":"其實我覺得啦"},{"start":15349.31,"end":15351.31,"text":"其實你的回應是算不錯的"},{"start":15351.31,"end":15353.31,"text":"當我們說要起動"},{"start":15353.31,"end":15355.31,"text":"校事會議的討論"},{"start":15355.31,"end":15357.31,"text":"其實我們也討論了"},{"start":15357.31,"end":15359.31,"text":"而且1月也已經公告"},{"start":15359.31,"end":15361.31,"text":"新的包括分流"},{"start":15361.31,"end":15363.31,"text":"包括不處理"},{"start":15363.31,"end":15365.31,"text":"匿名的包括要"},{"start":15365.31,"end":15367.31,"text":"怎麼樣去新增"},{"start":15367.31,"end":15369.31,"text":"輔佐的機制等等"},{"start":15369.31,"end":15371.31,"text":"但是我想要請教一下"},{"start":15371.31,"end":15373.31,"text":"部長"},{"start":15372.76,"end":15374.76,"text":"因為還是有人喊"},{"start":15374.76,"end":15376.76,"text":"廢除校事會議"},{"start":15376.76,"end":15378.76,"text":"還是有人這樣喊"},{"start":15378.76,"end":15380.76,"text":"雖然我們覺得這樣的"},{"start":15380.76,"end":15382.76,"text":"一個修訂已經回到"},{"start":15382.76,"end":15384.76,"text":"1、2年之前"},{"start":15384.76,"end":15386.76,"text":"原來的做法"},{"start":15387.49,"end":15389.49,"text":"但是仍有人"},{"start":15389.49,"end":15391.49,"text":"發出了廢除校事會議"},{"start":15391.49,"end":15393.49,"text":"這樣的聲音"},{"start":15393.49,"end":15395.49,"text":"所以我想跟部長請示一下"},{"start":15395.49,"end":15397.49,"text":"請教一下"},{"start":15397.49,"end":15399.49,"text":"如果明年的1月"},{"start":15399.49,"end":15401.49,"text":"我們再來統計從1月"},{"start":15401.49,"end":15403.49,"text":"新實施的這個辦法"},{"start":15403.49,"end":15405.49,"text":"我們希望明年的1月"},{"start":15405.49,"end":15407.49,"text":"看到"},{"start":15407.49,"end":15409.49,"text":"實施的一個結果"},{"start":15409.49,"end":15411.49,"text":"那如果"},{"start":15411.49,"end":15413.49,"text":"還是不盡理想"},{"start":15413.49,"end":15415.49,"text":"我不知道部長您會回應"},{"start":15415.49,"end":15417.49,"text":"他們很多人喊"},{"start":15417.49,"end":15419.49,"text":"要廢除校事會議這件事嗎"},{"start":15421.6,"end":15423.6,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":15423.6,"end":15425.6,"text":"確實我們新的校事法以後"},{"start":15425.6,"end":15427.6,"text":"我們也一直在掌握"},{"start":15427.6,"end":15429.6,"text":"每個月"},{"start":15429.6,"end":15431.6,"text":"我們現在目前是每個月在"},{"start":15431.6,"end":15433.6,"text":"做追蹤"},{"start":15433.6,"end":15435.6,"text":"各校因為新的"},{"start":15435.6,"end":15437.6,"text":"校事法所造成的一些"},{"start":15437.6,"end":15439.6,"text":"實際的"},{"start":15439.6,"end":15441.6,"text":"現在上路以來的"},{"start":15441.6,"end":15443.6,"text":"一個月"},{"start":15443.6,"end":15445.6,"text":"對每個月"},{"start":15445.6,"end":15447.6,"text":"我們每個月在追蹤"},{"start":15447.6,"end":15449.6,"text":"在去年的時候"},{"start":15449.6,"end":15451.6,"text":"感謝委員的關心"},{"start":15451.6,"end":15453.6,"text":"我們也希望說至少在"},{"start":15453.6,"end":15455.6,"text":"收集這個新的法實行以後到"},{"start":15455.6,"end":15457.6,"text":"今年的6月"},{"start":15457.6,"end":15459.6,"text":"我們希望在今年的暑假"},{"start":15459.6,"end":15461.6,"text":"至少有一個半年的"},{"start":15461.6,"end":15463.6,"text":"觀察期看它的一個效益怎麼樣"},{"start":15463.6,"end":15465.6,"text":"然後再有一個"},{"start":15465.6,"end":15467.6,"text":"假設大家還覺得可以"},{"start":15467.6,"end":15469.6,"text":"更精進我們再有一個"},{"start":15469.6,"end":15471.6,"text":"新的一個想像"},{"start":15471.6,"end":15473.6,"text":"謝謝部長開放的態度"},{"start":15473.6,"end":15475.6,"text":"因為我們有高級中等以下"},{"start":15475.6,"end":15477.6,"text":"學校教師大概有21萬人"},{"start":15477.6,"end":15479.6,"text":"其實大家也都很關注這件事"},{"start":15479.6,"end":15481.6,"text":"但是至少我還是要"},{"start":15481.6,"end":15483.6,"text":"肯定部長因為"},{"start":15483.6,"end":15485.6,"text":"關於找回老師尊嚴這件事情"},{"start":15485.6,"end":15487.6,"text":"有很多事情喊了很久"},{"start":15487.6,"end":15489.6,"text":"包括調升導師費"},{"start":15489.6,"end":15491.6,"text":"終點費的調升"},{"start":15491.6,"end":15493.6,"text":"行政加急的調升"},{"start":15493.6,"end":15495.6,"text":"還有擴大這些偏鄉"},{"start":15495.6,"end":15497.6,"text":"教師的保險"},{"start":15497.6,"end":15499.6,"text":"甚至是談到"},{"start":15499.6,"end":15501.6,"text":"年資的採計或者是"},{"start":15501.6,"end":15503.6,"text":"終點費的調升"},{"start":15503.6,"end":15505.6,"text":"涵蓋到教學支援人員"},{"start":15505.6,"end":15507.6,"text":"還有包括偏鄉"},{"start":15507.6,"end":15509.6,"text":"久任獎金一直調"},{"start":15509.6,"end":15511.6,"text":"一直調現在的態度"},{"start":15511.6,"end":15513.6,"text":"應該是幾乎有反應"},{"start":15513.6,"end":15515.6,"text":"其實都接納了"},{"start":15515.6,"end":15517.6,"text":"所以從這個部分其實我們看得出來"},{"start":15517.6,"end":15519.6,"text":"部長您確實是抱持著一個"},{"start":15519.6,"end":15521.6,"text":"非常開放的態度"},{"start":15521.6,"end":15523.6,"text":"那在這裡我們就是"},{"start":15523.6,"end":15525.6,"text":"希望說"},{"start":15525.02,"end":15527.02,"text":"我們還有一件事沒做"},{"start":15527.02,"end":15529.02,"text":"就是今天要排審的教師法的第25條"},{"start":15529.02,"end":15531.02,"text":"我們希望"},{"start":15531.02,"end":15533.02,"text":"對於這一些"},{"start":15533.02,"end":15535.02,"text":"被停聘"},{"start":15535.02,"end":15537.02,"text":"然後呢復聘回復名譽"},{"start":15537.02,"end":15539.02,"text":"我覺得最起碼"},{"start":15539.57,"end":15541.57,"text":"該有的尊嚴就是全新"},{"start":15541.57,"end":15543.57,"text":"還給他"},{"start":15543.57,"end":15545.57,"text":"那至於其他的"},{"start":15545.57,"end":15547.57,"text":"部分像加急的部分"},{"start":15547.57,"end":15549.57,"text":"我想人種"},{"start":15549.57,"end":15551.57,"text":"主計種也都在這邊"},{"start":15551.57,"end":15553.57,"text":"但是我們想要特別"},{"start":15553.57,"end":15555.57,"text":"強調"},{"start":15554.99,"end":15556.99,"text":"教師幸福感的調查"},{"start":15556.99,"end":15558.99,"text":"為什麼親子天下"},{"start":15558.99,"end":15560.99,"text":"會來做調查"},{"start":15560.99,"end":15562.99,"text":"就是因為我們發現"},{"start":15562.99,"end":15564.99,"text":"這一兩年"},{"start":15564.61,"end":15566.61,"text":"特別特別"},{"start":15566.61,"end":15568.61,"text":"老師的聲音就是斷崖式的"},{"start":15568.61,"end":15570.61,"text":"滑落"},{"start":15571.58,"end":15573.58,"text":"一半的老師覺得不幸福"},{"start":15574.43,"end":15576.43,"text":"然後這個問卷"},{"start":15576.43,"end":15578.43,"text":"是有意義的"},{"start":15578.43,"end":15580.43,"text":"因為是回收了5412份問卷"},{"start":15580.43,"end":15582.43,"text":"然後有超過"},{"start":15582.43,"end":15584.43,"text":"六成的老師是想要"},{"start":15584.43,"end":15586.43,"text":"離開教職"},{"start":15586.43,"end":15588.43,"text":"所以這個時候我希望"},{"start":15588.43,"end":15590.43,"text":"在我們討論教師法第25條"},{"start":15590.43,"end":15592.43,"text":"的時候我們希望我們的各個"},{"start":15592.43,"end":15594.43,"text":"機關各個代表"},{"start":15594.43,"end":15596.43,"text":"都能夠秉持著一個開放的態度"},{"start":15596.43,"end":15598.43,"text":"來讓"},{"start":15598.43,"end":15600.43,"text":"老師的尊嚴至少能夠回復"},{"start":15600.43,"end":15602.43,"text":"我們不知道怎麼回復他的"},{"start":15602.43,"end":15604.43,"text":"但是我們至少要回復"},{"start":15604.43,"end":15606.43,"text":"他這一段時間"},{"start":15606.43,"end":15608.43,"text":"所損失的"},{"start":15608.43,"end":15610.43,"text":"我想這是最基本的"},{"start":15610.43,"end":15612.43,"text":"那部長不曉得你的態度如何"},{"start":15612.43,"end":15614.43,"text":"謝謝委員關心我們老師的"},{"start":15614.43,"end":15616.43,"text":"權益包括他的名義上"},{"start":15616.43,"end":15618.43,"text":"怎麼樣去維護"},{"start":15618.02,"end":15620.02,"text":"我的想法跟委員的"},{"start":15620.02,"end":15622.02,"text":"一個看法是一致的"},{"start":15622.02,"end":15624.02,"text":"我們也希望說怎麼樣讓老師"},{"start":15624.02,"end":15626.02,"text":"能夠更安心"},{"start":15626.02,"end":15628.02,"text":"當他將心比心當他"},{"start":15628.02,"end":15630.02,"text":"變成被不時的指控或者"},{"start":15630.02,"end":15632.02,"text":"誤解而造成的一些"},{"start":15632.02,"end":15634.02,"text":"述說後來回復他名義"},{"start":15634.02,"end":15636.02,"text":"基本上不是規則"},{"start":15636.02,"end":15638.02,"text":"依他我覺得是應該"},{"start":15638.02,"end":15640.02,"text":"給他全心"},{"start":15640.02,"end":15642.02,"text":"謝謝部長在這邊"},{"start":15642.02,"end":15644.02,"text":"我們就等"},{"start":15644.02,"end":15646.02,"text":"下午的排審"},{"start":15646.02,"end":15648.02,"text":"謝謝部長謝謝主席"},{"start":15649.27,"end":15651.27,"text":"好謝謝吳立華交委"},{"start":15651.27,"end":15653.27,"text":"部長跟署長請回"},{"start":15663.66,"end":15665.66,"text":"依照先前的宣告"},{"start":15665.66,"end":15667.66,"text":"我們先來處理"},{"start":15667.66,"end":15669.66,"text":"臨時提案今天"},{"start":15669.66,"end":15671.66,"text":"提出的臨時提案有一案"},{"start":15672.57,"end":15674.57,"text":"請問提案委員"},{"start":15675.32,"end":15677.32,"text":"我們先請宣讀"},{"start":15679.12,"end":15681.12,"text":"臨時提案內"},{"start":15681.12,"end":15683.12,"text":"國民教育階段部分男性學生"},{"start":15683.12,"end":15685.12,"text":"被你學習退縮情緒壓抑"},{"start":15685.12,"end":15687.12,"text":"社會孤立及暴力風險增加等男性困境"},{"start":15687.62,"end":15689.62,"text":"並形成有毒的染子氣概"},{"start":15691.05,"end":15693.05,"text":"為現行課程與教師培訓"},{"start":15693.05,"end":15695.05,"text":"能缺乏系統性的男性"},{"start":15695.05,"end":15697.05,"text":"困境研究與教材"},{"start":15697.05,"end":15699.05,"text":"教育部如何具體落實"},{"start":15699.05,"end":15701.05,"text":"形成相關教材"},{"start":15701.05,"end":15703.05,"text":"如何在學校進行推廣周知"},{"start":15703.05,"end":15705.05,"text":"教師培訓及鼓勵"},{"start":15705.05,"end":15707.05,"text":"社會討論同時針對"},{"start":15707.05,"end":15709.05,"text":"如何形成教材如何鼓勵"},{"start":15709.05,"end":15711.05,"text":"社會討論手術如何"},{"start":15711.05,"end":15713.05,"text":"具體協助學校與民間"},{"start":15713.05,"end":15715.05,"text":"請教育部以三個月內"},{"start":15715.05,"end":15717.05,"text":"向立法院教育及文化委員會"},{"start":15717.05,"end":15719.05,"text":"提出書面報告提案人"},{"start":15719.05,"end":15721.05,"text":"林怡錦陳秀寶陳培宇"},{"start":15721.05,"end":15723.05,"text":"先讀完畢"},{"start":15723.05,"end":15725.05,"text":"請問提案委員有沒有補充"},{"start":15725.05,"end":15727.05,"text":"說明或意見"},{"start":15727.05,"end":15729.05,"text":"謝主席我來說明一下"},{"start":15729.05,"end":15731.05,"text":"這個提案是本席所提"},{"start":15731.05,"end":15733.05,"text":"雖然我們是女性"},{"start":15733.05,"end":15735.05,"text":"也十分關心男性"},{"start":15735.05,"end":15737.05,"text":"困境這個議題"},{"start":15737.05,"end":15739.05,"text":"希望教育部要作為教育主管機關"},{"start":15739.05,"end":15741.05,"text":"能研擬相關的教育對策"},{"start":15741.05,"end":15743.05,"text":"讓社會對這個現象"},{"start":15743.05,"end":15745.05,"text":"更多的認識"},{"start":15745.05,"end":15747.05,"text":"近年來在學術界其實男性困境"},{"start":15747.05,"end":15749.05,"text":"這個詞開始有比較多的討論"},{"start":15749.05,"end":15751.05,"text":"特別是台灣男性協會"},{"start":15751.05,"end":15753.05,"text":"這個等團體"},{"start":15753.05,"end":15755.05,"text":"在論述中有被凸顯出來"},{"start":15755.05,"end":15757.05,"text":"就許多男性他感受到自己"},{"start":15757.05,"end":15759.05,"text":"既已經失去了"},{"start":15759.05,"end":15761.05,"text":"在父權結構中的那種特權位置"},{"start":15761.05,"end":15763.05,"text":"那又沒有被清楚的"},{"start":15763.05,"end":15765.05,"text":"提供新的角色的典範"},{"start":15765.05,"end":15767.05,"text":"因而會產生一種"},{"start":15767.05,"end":15769.05,"text":"被責備確診不出"},{"start":15769.05,"end":15771.05,"text":"出口的那種焦慮狀態"},{"start":15771.05,"end":15773.05,"text":"台灣男性協會"},{"start":15773.05,"end":15775.05,"text":"有觀察到"},{"start":15775.05,"end":15777.05,"text":"台灣的性別平等"},{"start":15777.05,"end":15779.05,"text":"跟女性的主義發展"},{"start":15779.05,"end":15781.05,"text":"已經讓很多的女性"},{"start":15781.05,"end":15783.05,"text":"清楚可以"},{"start":15783.05,"end":15785.05,"text":"做自己的空間"},{"start":15785.05,"end":15787.05,"text":"但同時社會對男性的期待"},{"start":15787.05,"end":15789.05,"text":"卻沒有同步的鬆動"},{"start":15789.05,"end":15791.05,"text":"所以許多的男性"},{"start":15791.05,"end":15793.05,"text":"在伴侶跟家庭關係中"},{"start":15793.05,"end":15795.05,"text":"被要求也要溝通"},{"start":15795.05,"end":15797.05,"text":"要溫柔"},{"start":15797.05,"end":15799.05,"text":"要承擔情緒勞動"},{"start":15799.05,"end":15801.05,"text":"可是他卻缺乏被教導"},{"start":15801.05,"end":15803.05,"text":"如何做這件事的這個資源"},{"start":15803.05,"end":15805.05,"text":"或者是支持"},{"start":15805.05,"end":15807.05,"text":"那所以說男性"},{"start":15807.05,"end":15809.05,"text":"困境不只是變得"},{"start":15809.05,"end":15811.05,"text":"比較弱勢"},{"start":15811.05,"end":15813.05,"text":"而且他更是一種在傳統跟"},{"start":15813.05,"end":15815.05,"text":"當代的價值之間的"},{"start":15815.05,"end":15817.05,"text":"拉扯的那種位置的"},{"start":15817.05,"end":15819.05,"text":"模糊 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所以因此我就"},{"start":15847.05,"end":15849.05,"text":"希望教育部可以研擬這個相關"},{"start":15849.05,"end":15851.05,"text":"的各教育階段的"},{"start":15851.05,"end":15853.05,"text":"這個教學對策"},{"start":15853.05,"end":15855.05,"text":"讓這個社會更認識男性"},{"start":15855.05,"end":15857.05,"text":"困境"},{"start":15857.05,"end":15859.05,"text":"這些議題 以上"},{"start":15859.9,"end":15861.9,"text":"好 請問教育部"},{"start":15861.9,"end":15863.9,"text":"有沒有補充說明"},{"start":15865.42,"end":15867.42,"text":"我們就配合 跟主委報告我們配合伴"},{"start":15867.42,"end":15869.42,"text":"好 招案通過"},{"start":15870.11,"end":15872.11,"text":"臨時提案處理完畢"},{"start":15872.11,"end":15874.11,"text":"繼續我們請"},{"start":15874.11,"end":15876.11,"text":"劉淑冰委員質詢"},{"start":15876.11,"end":15878.11,"text":"劉淑 欸 喔 換人"},{"start":15879.54,"end":15881.54,"text":"好 有請楊瓊英委員詢答"},{"start":15881.54,"end":15883.54,"text":"請"},{"start":15891.64,"end":15893.64,"text":"好 謝謝主席 楊瓊發言 邀請部長"},{"start":15894.41,"end":15896.41,"text":"好 請鄭部長"},{"start":15901.19,"end":15903.19,"text":"部長好"},{"start":15903.19,"end":15905.19,"text":"我們共同來討論教師荒的問題"},{"start":15905.19,"end":15907.19,"text":"因為我們看到教師荒"},{"start":15907.19,"end":15909.19,"text":"它不是未來的"},{"start":15909.19,"end":15911.19,"text":"它是現在正在發生的"},{"start":15911.19,"end":15913.19,"text":"這個危機"},{"start":15913.19,"end":15915.19,"text":"所以請教育部長"},{"start":15915.19,"end":15917.19,"text":"目前已經出現了"},{"start":15917.19,"end":15919.19,"text":"結構性教師人力的"},{"start":15919.19,"end":15921.19,"text":"一個危機 那這個"},{"start":15921.19,"end":15923.19,"text":"出現的現象本席來"},{"start":15923.19,"end":15925.19,"text":"綜合幾項 第一個"},{"start":15925.19,"end":15927.19,"text":"教師增視的時候"},{"start":15927.19,"end":15929.19,"text":"報名人數呢"},{"start":15929.19,"end":15931.19,"text":"是下降的"},{"start":15931.19,"end":15933.19,"text":"但是我們在錄取率上升"},{"start":15933.19,"end":15935.19,"text":"但仍然是補不滿"},{"start":15935.19,"end":15937.19,"text":"甚至出現了有分"},{"start":15937.19,"end":15939.19,"text":"區別的部分 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那第二個"},{"start":15957.19,"end":15959.19,"text":"更嚴重的問題是"},{"start":15959.19,"end":15961.19,"text":"人留不住"},{"start":15961.19,"end":15963.19,"text":"那第一線的教師"},{"start":15963.19,"end":15965.19,"text":"反應最直接"},{"start":15965.19,"end":15967.19,"text":"他說工作負擔過重"},{"start":15967.19,"end":15969.19,"text":"還有加上行政"},{"start":15969.19,"end":15971.19,"text":"壓力爆炸"},{"start":15971.19,"end":15973.19,"text":"尤其是導師加行政的"},{"start":15973.19,"end":15975.19,"text":"雙重負擔"},{"start":15975.19,"end":15977.19,"text":"所以各類的這個憑件"},{"start":15977.19,"end":15979.19,"text":"填報工作它是不斷的"},{"start":15979.19,"end":15981.19,"text":"在增加"},{"start":15981.19,"end":15983.19,"text":"所以本校請教教育部"},{"start":15983.19,"end":15985.19,"text":"你是不是有一個整體的"},{"start":15985.19,"end":15987.19,"text":"人力重建的這個計畫"},{"start":15988.84,"end":15990.84,"text":"因為如果制度不改"},{"start":15990.84,"end":15992.84,"text":"那未來還要"},{"start":15992.84,"end":15994.84,"text":"有人願意當老師嗎"},{"start":15994.84,"end":15996.84,"text":"如果現在的現象已經"},{"start":15996.84,"end":15998.84,"text":"產生 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你多久時間可以告訴本席"},{"start":16400.72,"end":16402.72,"text":"多久時間"},{"start":16403.15,"end":16405.15,"text":"跟委員報告會後我們事實上"},{"start":16405.15,"end":16407.15,"text":"這個Data我們事實上都"},{"start":16407.15,"end":16409.15,"text":"可以隨時都去"},{"start":16409.15,"end":16411.15,"text":"就是因為你這個Data要怎麼去調整"},{"start":16411.15,"end":16413.15,"text":"你既然已經有了"},{"start":16413.15,"end":16415.15,"text":"一個禮拜時間給本席"},{"start":16415.15,"end":16417.15,"text":"接下來本席"},{"start":16417.15,"end":16419.15,"text":"主席"},{"start":16419.15,"end":16421.15,"text":"本席要討論的是說"},{"start":16421.15,"end":16423.15,"text":"在我們的整個升學制度"},{"start":16423.15,"end":16425.15,"text":"到底公不公平"},{"start":16425.15,"end":16427.15,"text":"因為我們一直認為學習歷程"},{"start":16427.15,"end":16429.15,"text":"我們所強調的"},{"start":16429.15,"end":16431.15,"text":"是要多元性的一個表現"},{"start":16431.15,"end":16433.15,"text":"而且減輕壓力"},{"start":16433.15,"end":16435.15,"text":"但是現在似乎"},{"start":16435.15,"end":16437.15,"text":"有變成了什麼呢"},{"start":16437.15,"end":16439.15,"text":"有資源的學生他補習競賽"},{"start":16439.15,"end":16441.15,"text":"包裝成果"},{"start":16441.15,"end":16443.15,"text":"資源不足的學生他只能夠填寫"},{"start":16443.15,"end":16445.15,"text":"基本的這個資料"},{"start":16445.15,"end":16447.15,"text":"所以本席要請教部長"},{"start":16447.15,"end":16449.15,"text":"在存鄉學生在頂大"},{"start":16449.15,"end":16451.15,"text":"錄取的一個比例差距"},{"start":16451.15,"end":16453.15,"text":"有沒有持續在擴大"},{"start":16453.15,"end":16455.15,"text":"因為我們制定了"},{"start":16455.15,"end":16457.15,"text":"這個制度教育最重要的"},{"start":16457.15,"end":16459.15,"text":"是一個利益主點的一個公平"},{"start":16459.15,"end":16461.15,"text":"資源差異的一個影響評估"},{"start":16463.15,"end":16465.15,"text":"本席認為必須在一段時間"},{"start":16465.15,"end":16467.15,"text":"做滾動式的一個調整"},{"start":16467.15,"end":16469.15,"text":"那我們的目的"},{"start":16469.15,"end":16471.15,"text":"就是要"},{"start":16472.2,"end":16474.2,"text":"落實當時設計的公平"},{"start":16474.2,"end":16476.2,"text":"跟輕壓的目標"},{"start":16476.2,"end":16478.2,"text":"這是非常重要"},{"start":16478.2,"end":16480.2,"text":"請做說明"},{"start":16480.23,"end":16482.23,"text":"謝謝委員關心"},{"start":16482.23,"end":16484.23,"text":"事實上我們當"},{"start":16484.23,"end":16486.23,"text":"這個制度在改變的時候"},{"start":16486.23,"end":16488.23,"text":"我們的城鄉的"},{"start":16488.23,"end":16490.23,"text":"這些比較鄉區的這些"},{"start":16490.23,"end":16492.23,"text":"學校的學生入局頂大的"},{"start":16492.23,"end":16494.23,"text":"比例事實上是在增加的"},{"start":16494.23,"end":16496.23,"text":"我想詳細的請教"},{"start":16496.23,"end":16498.23,"text":"市長來說說明"},{"start":16498.23,"end":16500.23,"text":"因為我們的升學管道現在分很多"},{"start":16500.23,"end":16502.23,"text":"一個是繁星"},{"start":16502.23,"end":16504.23,"text":"其實就是顧及到每校都等值的"},{"start":16504.23,"end":16506.23,"text":"這樣的一個概念"},{"start":16506.23,"end":16508.23,"text":"所以不管是城鄉或者是在城市地區的"},{"start":16508.23,"end":16510.23,"text":"學生的入學率其實是差不多的"},{"start":16510.23,"end":16512.23,"text":"那再來就是針對學習"},{"start":16512.23,"end":16514.23,"text":"歷程檔案城鄉之間"},{"start":16514.23,"end":16516.23,"text":"有沒有差距這我們有進行"},{"start":16516.23,"end":16518.23,"text":"相關的研究調查是不是會後我們"},{"start":16518.23,"end":16520.23,"text":"提供給委員做"},{"start":16520.23,"end":16522.23,"text":"所以部長就針對城鄉差距"},{"start":16522.23,"end":16524.23,"text":"的這個部分呢跟社會"},{"start":16524.23,"end":16526.23,"text":"階級落差的這個部分"},{"start":16526.23,"end":16528.23,"text":"非常重視你們必須要"},{"start":16528.23,"end":16530.23,"text":"滾動式的去檢討"},{"start":16530.23,"end":16532.23,"text":"最後一個功課喔我要請教"},{"start":16532.23,"end":16534.23,"text":"因為3月23號"},{"start":16534.23,"end":16536.23,"text":"教育部跟司法院跟這個"},{"start":16536.23,"end":16538.23,"text":"法務部有開了公聽會"},{"start":16538.23,"end":16540.23,"text":"也就針對校園"},{"start":16540.23,"end":16542.23,"text":"暴力的這個問題精神狀況"},{"start":16542.23,"end":16544.23,"text":"不穩學生的事件"},{"start":16544.23,"end":16546.23,"text":"那家長請問了一句話"},{"start":16546.23,"end":16548.23,"text":"孩子在學校是"},{"start":16548.23,"end":16550.23,"text":"真的安全嗎這一句話"},{"start":16550.23,"end":16552.23,"text":"在我們的教育這個"},{"start":16552.23,"end":16554.23,"text":"層面來說是不應當"},{"start":16554.23,"end":16556.23,"text":"有這樣子的話語"},{"start":16556.23,"end":16558.23,"text":"因為我們一定要讓我們的孩子"},{"start":16558.23,"end":16560.23,"text":"安全所以目前為止"},{"start":16560.23,"end":16562.23,"text":"我們教育部似乎都停滯"},{"start":16562.23,"end":16564.23,"text":"在個案的一個處理"},{"start":16564.23,"end":16566.23,"text":"所以本席要請教部長"},{"start":16566.23,"end":16568.23,"text":"3月23號的公聽會"},{"start":16568.23,"end":16570.23,"text":"也就是針對於"},{"start":16570.23,"end":16572.23,"text":"是不是有專輔機構"},{"start":16572.23,"end":16574.23,"text":"讓暴力強制"},{"start":16574.23,"end":16576.23,"text":"去在專輔機構裡頭"},{"start":16576.23,"end":16578.23,"text":"來協助讓原本的"},{"start":16578.23,"end":16580.23,"text":"校園能夠安全也讓"},{"start":16580.23,"end":16582.23,"text":"教師能夠有權責"},{"start":16582.23,"end":16584.23,"text":"的來處理這是我們"},{"start":16584.23,"end":16586.23,"text":"在維護我們孩子的安全"},{"start":16586.23,"end":16588.23,"text":"那目前為止"},{"start":16588.23,"end":16590.23,"text":"早上我也特別在法制委員會"},{"start":16590.23,"end":16592.23,"text":"也請問了"},{"start":16592.23,"end":16594.23,"text":"法務部"},{"start":16594.23,"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ext":"的這個議題好"},{"start":16819.03,"end":16821.03,"text":"那包括像他非上班時間"},{"start":16821.03,"end":16823.03,"text":"的這個加班他"},{"start":16823.03,"end":16825.03,"text":"這部分也是會考量去一去就對了"},{"start":16826.32,"end":16828.32,"text":"這個比較細節的會等到"},{"start":16828.32,"end":16830.32,"text":"所有研議的那個議案會從"},{"start":16830.32,"end":16832.32,"text":"上層一直到中層或下層"},{"start":16832.32,"end":16834.32,"text":"這個逐個議題在一起"},{"start":16834.32,"end":16836.32,"text":"探討好謝謝"},{"start":16836.32,"end":16838.32,"text":"那我們又聽到的是因為"},{"start":16839.13,"end":16841.13,"text":"中央在撫資中心的這個安排上面"},{"start":16841.13,"end":16843.13,"text":"這個中央因為"},{"start":16843.13,"end":16845.13,"text":"才化法的一個理由"},{"start":16845.13,"end":16847.13,"text":"然後減少了對"},{"start":16847.13,"end":16849.13,"text":"縣市的這樣的撫資中心的補助"},{"start":16849.13,"end":16851.13,"text":"從87%這樣稍微"},{"start":16851.13,"end":16853.13,"text":"到50%以下"},{"start":16853.13,"end":16855.13,"text":"這部分結果那個"},{"start":16855.13,"end":16857.13,"text":"他的督導能量就不夠了"},{"start":16857.13,"end":16859.13,"text":"那請問可是這個"},{"start":16859.13,"end":16861.13,"text":"民眾的說是學生"},{"start":16861.13,"end":16863.13,"text":"他自己的一個心理的"},{"start":16863.13,"end":16865.13,"text":"健康的需求是很重要的他還是都有"},{"start":16865.13,"end":16867.13,"text":"需求那預計用哪些措施來跟各縣市"},{"start":16867.13,"end":16869.13,"text":"政府合作來照顧到孩子們的"},{"start":16869.13,"end":16871.13,"text":"這個心理健康呢"},{"start":16872.56,"end":16874.56,"text":"跟各位報告"},{"start":16874.56,"end":16876.56,"text":"委員剛才關心的涉及到補助比例"},{"start":16876.56,"end":16878.56,"text":"以及在相關的補助"},{"start":16878.56,"end":16880.56,"text":"下怎麼樣強化中央"},{"start":16880.56,"end":16882.56,"text":"地方的合作"},{"start":16882.56,"end":16884.56,"text":"那首先因為在才化法的確"},{"start":16884.56,"end":16886.56,"text":"我很坦率講國教署的經費"},{"start":16886.56,"end":16888.56,"text":"是最直接跟地方政府有關"},{"start":16888.56,"end":16890.56,"text":"那跟這一波的才化法"},{"start":16890.56,"end":16892.56,"text":"也是直接相關我們被"},{"start":16892.56,"end":16894.56,"text":"大概整體調勻了"},{"start":16894.56,"end":16896.56,"text":"大概138億"},{"start":16896.56,"end":16898.56,"text":"所以相關的這個補助的設算"},{"start":16898.56,"end":16900.56,"text":"會變動"},{"start":16900.02,"end":16902.02,"text":"那地方政府我們隨便抽取"},{"start":16902.02,"end":16904.02,"text":"4個直轄市"},{"start":16903.76,"end":16905.76,"text":"有兩個直轄市增加400多億"},{"start":16905.76,"end":16907.76,"text":"有兩個直轄市增加"},{"start":16908.57,"end":16910.57,"text":"300億"},{"start":16909.79,"end":16911.79,"text":"有一個"},{"start":16911.3,"end":16913.3,"text":"省轄市增加200億"},{"start":16913.3,"end":16915.3,"text":"有一個第一級的縣市增加"},{"start":16915.3,"end":16917.3,"text":"188億"},{"start":16917.3,"end":16919.3,"text":"地方政府應該讓他把錢撥出來"},{"start":16919.3,"end":16921.3,"text":"可能就照委員講的我們會有一些"},{"start":16921.3,"end":16923.3,"text":"在第一個議題上"},{"start":16923.3,"end":16925.3,"text":"在經費的整體的運作上"},{"start":16925.3,"end":16927.3,"text":"會有一些溝通"},{"start":16927.3,"end":16929.3,"text":"第二點可能即便這樣的一個情況下"},{"start":16929.3,"end":16931.3,"text":"部長還是站在整個國家往前"},{"start":16931.3,"end":16933.3,"text":"學生的利益最大的話"},{"start":16933.3,"end":16935.3,"text":"所以這裡面會有一些措施"},{"start":16935.3,"end":16937.3,"text":"仍然在不變的情況下"},{"start":16937.3,"end":16939.3,"text":"還會往前進"},{"start":16939.3,"end":16941.3,"text":"例如最新修的福老法"},{"start":16941.3,"end":16943.3,"text":"在福老市的功能"},{"start":16943.3,"end":16945.3,"text":"還有各處市包含普特榮和"},{"start":16945.3,"end":16947.3,"text":"福老市統整功能"},{"start":16947.3,"end":16949.3,"text":"等等"},{"start":16949.3,"end":16951.3,"text":"這新一波的子法都在運作中"},{"start":16951.3,"end":16953.3,"text":"那這也是新修的學生福老法"},{"start":16953.3,"end":16955.3,"text":"之後的4個子法"},{"start":16955.3,"end":16957.3,"text":"在併同4月份可能還有一個新的子法"},{"start":16957.3,"end":16959.3,"text":"以及相關的補助要點"},{"start":16959.3,"end":16961.3,"text":"都會來運用在這些措施的強化"},{"start":16961.3,"end":16963.3,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":16963.3,"end":16965.3,"text":"我們看到國家署有這樣的用心"},{"start":16965.3,"end":16967.3,"text":"發現到這個才化法上面的"},{"start":16967.3,"end":16969.3,"text":"分配精粹上面的也願意做這樣的相關子法的"},{"start":16969.3,"end":16971.3,"text":"再把它補充進去"},{"start":16971.3,"end":16973.3,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":16973.3,"end":16975.3,"text":"最後一個問題就是涉及到我們關心到大專的部分"},{"start":16975.3,"end":16977.3,"text":"就是在大學"},{"start":16977.3,"end":16979.3,"text":"每900位的學生才分配到一名具有"},{"start":16979.3,"end":16981.3,"text":"心理師跟社工師資格的專輔人員"},{"start":16981.3,"end":16983.3,"text":"但是這些"},{"start":16983.3,"end":16985.3,"text":"專輔人員他們事實上"},{"start":16985.3,"end":16987.3,"text":"在3年就算久任了"},{"start":16987.3,"end":16989.3,"text":"流動率就非常高"},{"start":16989.3,"end":16991.3,"text":"尤其看到他們最後把行政負擔過多"},{"start":16991.3,"end":16993.3,"text":"雜物也過多這些部分"},{"start":16993.3,"end":16995.3,"text":"薪資當然不如預期"},{"start":16995.3,"end":16997.3,"text":"所以現在想問的是說"},{"start":16997.3,"end":16999.3,"text":"如果降低大學薪輔人員的流動率"},{"start":16999.3,"end":17001.3,"text":"這部分"},{"start":17001.3,"end":17003.3,"text":"請這邊部長是不是能夠做回答"},{"start":17007.87,"end":17009.87,"text":"各位委員報告有關大專"},{"start":17009.87,"end":17011.87,"text":"薪輔人員的這個部分"},{"start":17011.87,"end":17013.87,"text":"其實我們在去年就有提高我們相關的"},{"start":17013.87,"end":17015.87,"text":"經費補助"},{"start":17015.87,"end":17017.87,"text":"像國立的部分我們都是提高到一個人"},{"start":17017.87,"end":17019.87,"text":"55萬然後私立的部分一個人"},{"start":17019.87,"end":17021.87,"text":"是提高到65萬其實我們"},{"start":17021.87,"end":17023.87,"text":"光是今年補助給大專校院"},{"start":17023.87,"end":17025.87,"text":"的這個薪輔人力"},{"start":17025.87,"end":17027.87,"text":"經費就高達3億多了"},{"start":17027.87,"end":17029.87,"text":"這個部分我們也會持續跟各個學校來"},{"start":17029.87,"end":17031.87,"text":"一起合作"},{"start":17031.87,"end":17033.87,"text":"看怎麼樣的措辭可以讓這些人"},{"start":17033.87,"end":17035.87,"text":"可以繼續留任"},{"start":17035.87,"end":17037.87,"text":"專款專用嗎"},{"start":17037.87,"end":17039.87,"text":"專款專用"},{"start":17039.87,"end":17041.87,"text":"好那你真的要落實這個"},{"start":17041.87,"end":17043.87,"text":"讓這個專輔人員能拿到"},{"start":17043.87,"end":17045.87,"text":"那這個部分是不是也可以跟他說你們"},{"start":17045.87,"end":17047.87,"text":"這份的資料報告說他們是不是有專款專用"},{"start":17047.87,"end":17049.87,"text":"是不是可以本期一個報告在一個月之內"},{"start":17049.87,"end":17051.87,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":17051.87,"end":17053.87,"text":"辛苦了"},{"start":17053.87,"end":17055.87,"text":"謝謝劉樹斌委員的質詢請部長"},{"start":17055.87,"end":17057.87,"text":"回座下一位有請"},{"start":17057.87,"end":17059.87,"text":"邱慧如委員"},{"start":17068.09,"end":17070.09,"text":"吳希還有各位委員同仁"},{"start":17070.09,"end":17072.09,"text":"還有各位政府部門的同仁"},{"start":17072.09,"end":17074.09,"text":"大家好那我們有請鄭部長"},{"start":17074.09,"end":17076.09,"text":"好請鄭部長"},{"start":17081.76,"end":17083.76,"text":"是部長您好"},{"start":17083.76,"end":17085.76,"text":"那這個今天"},{"start":17085.76,"end":17087.76,"text":"我站在這邊是想"},{"start":17087.76,"end":17089.76,"text":"替偏遠地區的校戶"},{"start":17089.76,"end":17091.76,"text":"來請命"},{"start":17091.76,"end":17093.76,"text":"那因為似乎感覺政府"},{"start":17093.76,"end":17095.76,"text":"忘了這個校戶的存在"},{"start":17095.76,"end":17097.76,"text":"好那我們講"},{"start":17097.76,"end":17099.76,"text":"一下其實針對偏遠"},{"start":17099.76,"end":17101.76,"text":"地區因為人才"},{"start":17101.76,"end":17103.76,"text":"有容易流失的問題"},{"start":17103.76,"end":17105.76,"text":"所以呢我們這個學校"},{"start":17105.76,"end":17107.76,"text":"的偏遠地區學校教育發展"},{"start":17107.76,"end":17109.76,"text":"條例就規範說"},{"start":17109.76,"end":17111.76,"text":"為了挽留這些專業人力"},{"start":17111.76,"end":17113.76,"text":"在偏遠地區"},{"start":17113.76,"end":17115.76,"text":"所以呢有規範了九任獎金"},{"start":17115.76,"end":17117.76,"text":"那部長不知道您知不知道這件事"},{"start":17121.25,"end":17123.25,"text":"九任獎金"},{"start":17131.19,"end":17133.19,"text":"是"},{"start":17132.3,"end":17134.3,"text":"確實我們九任獎金"},{"start":17134.3,"end":17136.3,"text":"從教育部來講我們當然"},{"start":17136.3,"end":17138.3,"text":"學校裡面第一個思考的就是"},{"start":17138.3,"end":17140.3,"text":"老師校長主任這些"},{"start":17140.3,"end":17142.3,"text":"是是是確實也"},{"start":17142.3,"end":17144.3,"text":"因為這樣校戶"},{"start":17144.3,"end":17146.3,"text":"或者過去有一些輔導人員"},{"start":17146.3,"end":17148.3,"text":"在這個部分就被社工"},{"start":17148.3,"end":17150.3,"text":"人力的一個在校園裡面"},{"start":17150.3,"end":17152.3,"text":"就被忽略那因為他"},{"start":17152.3,"end":17154.3,"text":"涉及到全系部跟人事總處"},{"start":17154.3,"end":17156.3,"text":"所以我們必須要考量"},{"start":17156.3,"end":17158.3,"text":"所有人員上的一些"},{"start":17158.3,"end":17160.3,"text":"性質跟設立的一些"},{"start":17160.3,"end":17162.3,"text":"特性所以我想這個"},{"start":17162.3,"end":17164.3,"text":"還有帶一些"},{"start":17164.3,"end":17166.3,"text":"跨部會的一些討論"},{"start":17166.3,"end":17168.3,"text":"謝謝您的回覆那你剛提到說"},{"start":17168.3,"end":17170.3,"text":"教師要關照到"},{"start":17170.3,"end":17172.3,"text":"可是事實上這個偏遠"},{"start":17172.3,"end":17174.3,"text":"的地區學校教育發展條例"},{"start":17174.3,"end":17176.3,"text":"他關照到的不是只有教師"},{"start":17176.3,"end":17178.3,"text":"而已他關照到是"},{"start":17178.3,"end":17180.3,"text":"10類的人員10類的人員"},{"start":17180.3,"end":17182.3,"text":"而我們校戶卻不在"},{"start":17182.3,"end":17184.3,"text":"這10類人員的範圍之內"},{"start":17184.3,"end":17186.3,"text":"關照的人非常的多"},{"start":17186.3,"end":17188.3,"text":"可是我們我們校戶"},{"start":17188.3,"end":17190.3,"text":"卻被獨排於外"},{"start":17190.3,"end":17192.3,"text":"那我想這裡呈現出來的"},{"start":17192.3,"end":17194.3,"text":"關照到的人有教師"},{"start":17194.3,"end":17196.3,"text":"有校長那還有專聘教師"},{"start":17196.3,"end":17198.3,"text":"代理教師專業"},{"start":17198.3,"end":17200.3,"text":"您剛講的專業輔導人員其實他有被"},{"start":17200.3,"end":17202.3,"text":"包括在裡面那社工人員也有"},{"start":17202.3,"end":17204.3,"text":"包括在裡面那除此之外"},{"start":17204.3,"end":17206.3,"text":"輻射的幼兒園"},{"start":17206.3,"end":17208.3,"text":"當中的園長"},{"start":17209.03,"end":17211.03,"text":"老師教保員助理教保員"},{"start":17211.03,"end":17213.03,"text":"都有在這個"},{"start":17213.03,"end":17215.03,"text":"九任獎金的發放範圍之內"},{"start":17215.03,"end":17217.03,"text":"但是獨立我們這個"},{"start":17217.03,"end":17219.03,"text":"校戶難道我們校戶"},{"start":17219.03,"end":17221.03,"text":"真的在這個"},{"start":17221.03,"end":17223.03,"text":"政府部門的眼中這麼的不重要嗎"},{"start":17223.03,"end":17225.03,"text":"可以獨排於這10"},{"start":17225.03,"end":17227.03,"text":"項人員之外"},{"start":17227.17,"end":17229.17,"text":"我想我的心情"},{"start":17229.17,"end":17231.17,"text":"跟委員是一致的"},{"start":17231.17,"end":17233.17,"text":"校戶當然是重要的他是"},{"start":17233.17,"end":17235.17,"text":"在穩定學校的學童"},{"start":17235.17,"end":17237.17,"text":"的一些健康的"},{"start":17237.17,"end":17239.17,"text":"一個力量嘛"},{"start":17239.17,"end":17241.17,"text":"我同意這一個部分在"},{"start":17241.17,"end":17243.17,"text":"校戶裡面我們怎麼樣來努力"},{"start":17243.17,"end":17245.17,"text":"或是用什麼樣的方式因為"},{"start":17245.17,"end":17247.17,"text":"剛才特別提到專業的輔導老師代理"},{"start":17247.17,"end":17249.17,"text":"代課老師社工人員這都是我們教育部"},{"start":17249.17,"end":17251.17,"text":"可以直接"},{"start":17251.17,"end":17253.17,"text":"作為的但是因為"},{"start":17253.17,"end":17255.17,"text":"校戶基本上他的一個整個"},{"start":17255.17,"end":17257.17,"text":"任用"},{"start":17256.92,"end":17258.92,"text":"沒有他的任用其實這10"},{"start":17258.92,"end":17260.92,"text":"類人員的任用跟校戶也可以"},{"start":17260.92,"end":17262.92,"text":"相提並論為什麼其他"},{"start":17262.92,"end":17264.92,"text":"的人有校戶沒有"},{"start":17264.92,"end":17266.92,"text":"我們看到這些九任獎金"},{"start":17266.92,"end":17268.92,"text":"其實雖然不是說金額非常的"},{"start":17268.92,"end":17270.92,"text":"巨大但是至少也能夠"},{"start":17270.92,"end":17272.92,"text":"撫慰校戶感覺"},{"start":17272.92,"end":17274.92,"text":"好像被不公平"},{"start":17274.92,"end":17276.92,"text":"對待的一個心情"},{"start":17276.92,"end":17278.92,"text":"相對剝奪感已經出現了因為別"},{"start":17278.92,"end":17280.92,"text":"人都有但校戶都沒有"},{"start":17280.92,"end":17282.92,"text":"那這些數字"},{"start":17282.92,"end":17284.92,"text":"真的是既看不到也"},{"start":17284.92,"end":17286.92,"text":"吃不到那再請署長"},{"start":17286.92,"end":17288.92,"text":"幫我們做一個說明謝謝委員"},{"start":17288.92,"end":17290.92,"text":"給我們這個說明用十秒簡單的說明"},{"start":17290.92,"end":17292.92,"text":"剛剛講的幾類"},{"start":17292.92,"end":17294.92,"text":"人員他屬於部長"},{"start":17294.92,"end":17296.92,"text":"或是國教署或是地方政府"},{"start":17296.92,"end":17298.92,"text":"教育單位可以直接"},{"start":17298.92,"end":17300.92,"text":"做決定而不涉及到相關"},{"start":17300.92,"end":17302.92,"text":"單位人員"},{"start":17302.92,"end":17304.92,"text":"今天如果在包含"},{"start":17304.92,"end":17306.92,"text":"衛福部全區部在看"},{"start":17306.92,"end":17308.92,"text":"校戶護理師這個角色"},{"start":17308.92,"end":17310.92,"text":"的時候可能也會"},{"start":17310.92,"end":17312.92,"text":"讓我們去顧慮"},{"start":17312.92,"end":17314.92,"text":"我們也多幫忙去思考"},{"start":17314.92,"end":17316.92,"text":"校戶之外的護理"},{"start":17316.92,"end":17318.92,"text":"人員那種也有在偏遠"},{"start":17318.92,"end":17320.92,"text":"地區比如說衛生所等等"},{"start":17320.92,"end":17322.92,"text":"所以這個是不是容我們"},{"start":17322.92,"end":17324.92,"text":"也做一些討論我們在當時"},{"start":17324.92,"end":17326.92,"text":"的第二十一條他大概"},{"start":17326.92,"end":17328.92,"text":"有這些顧慮之後希望"},{"start":17328.92,"end":17330.92,"text":"教育部處理教育部能處理的部分"},{"start":17330.92,"end":17332.92,"text":"不過剛才部長已經有說可以再去"},{"start":17332.92,"end":17334.92,"text":"約相關單位大家一起再討論"},{"start":17334.92,"end":17336.92,"text":"就涉及到二十一條相關單位"},{"start":17336.92,"end":17338.92,"text":"討論那什麼時候可以給我們時間表"},{"start":17338.92,"end":17340.92,"text":"因為那個署長您剛剛有提到"},{"start":17340.92,"end":17342.92,"text":"好像關照到學校的"},{"start":17342.92,"end":17344.92,"text":"校戶然後就好像"},{"start":17344.92,"end":17346.92,"text":"也會連帶的被質疑說"},{"start":17346.92,"end":17348.92,"text":"衛生所為什麼沒有我想衛生所"},{"start":17348.92,"end":17350.92,"text":"他們全也要把關但是我們現在"},{"start":17350.92,"end":17352.92,"text":"是在講校園裡頭的情境"},{"start":17352.92,"end":17354.92,"text":"其他十類人員都有了"},{"start":17354.92,"end":17356.92,"text":"獨排校戶沒有我覺得這個"},{"start":17356.92,"end":17358.92,"text":"可以不用扯到衛生所"},{"start":17358.92,"end":17360.92,"text":"人員的事情去我們就是"},{"start":17360.92,"end":17362.92,"text":"在校園裡頭我們先處理校園裡"},{"start":17362.92,"end":17364.92,"text":"頭一件事這是第一件事"},{"start":17364.92,"end":17366.92,"text":"那第二件事其實"},{"start":17366.92,"end":17368.92,"text":"我們偏遠地區的學校"},{"start":17368.92,"end":17370.92,"text":"教育發展條例第九條有提到說"},{"start":17370.92,"end":17372.92,"text":"中央政府其實是有補助"},{"start":17372.92,"end":17374.92,"text":"地方政府某些經費的"},{"start":17374.92,"end":17376.92,"text":"那其中有一個項目就是"},{"start":17376.92,"end":17378.92,"text":"第九條第一項提到說"},{"start":17378.92,"end":17380.92,"text":"這個合理的配置這個"},{"start":17380.92,"end":17382.92,"text":"護理人員然後還有協助他們的"},{"start":17382.92,"end":17384.92,"text":"專業發展所以九任獎金的"},{"start":17384.92,"end":17386.92,"text":"裁員就來自於第九條第二項"},{"start":17386.92,"end":17388.92,"text":"那第一項又提到校戶"},{"start":17388.92,"end":17390.92,"text":"那不知道為什麼前面有關照到校戶"},{"start":17390.92,"end":17392.92,"text":"就第九條二十一條卻沒有關照到"},{"start":17392.92,"end":17394.92,"text":"校戶這是我的疑問"},{"start":17394.92,"end":17396.92,"text":"那剛剛也提到您也提到說"},{"start":17396.92,"end":17398.92,"text":"願意研議嘛那事實上早在你們願意"},{"start":17398.92,"end":17400.92,"text":"研議之前因為校戶一直來跟我請命"},{"start":17400.92,"end":17402.92,"text":"那我也提出這個修正的草案"},{"start":17402.92,"end":17404.92,"text":"那修正的草案我就在"},{"start":17404.92,"end":17406.92,"text":"第二十一條的第二項把校戶"},{"start":17406.92,"end":17408.92,"text":"納進去了那剛你們"},{"start":17408.92,"end":17410.92,"text":"提出願意研議那不曉得這邊可不可以"},{"start":17410.92,"end":17412.92,"text":"給我們一個具體的時間表"},{"start":17414.96,"end":17416.96,"text":"我們在一個月內"},{"start":17416.96,"end":17418.96,"text":"其實對這個議題我們也覺得"},{"start":17418.96,"end":17420.96,"text":"這樣剛剛不想講的這個護理師"},{"start":17420.96,"end":17422.96,"text":"如果在我們的偏鄉服務那麼久"},{"start":17422.96,"end":17424.96,"text":"看怎麼樣"},{"start":17424.96,"end":17426.96,"text":"不會衝擊到其他的"},{"start":17426.96,"end":17428.96,"text":"我們可以照顧好那這個是不是"},{"start":17428.96,"end":17430.96,"text":"給我們一個月我們會約時間"},{"start":17430.96,"end":17432.96,"text":"但這個一個月約是約了以後"},{"start":17432.96,"end":17434.96,"text":"談一下方向說他逐步"},{"start":17434.96,"end":17436.96,"text":"會往前進的過程或洽談的過程"},{"start":17436.96,"end":17438.96,"text":"我們再回報委員"},{"start":17438.96,"end":17440.96,"text":"中間的一些商議結果"},{"start":17440.96,"end":17442.96,"text":"沒有問題謝謝教育部願意帶回去"},{"start":17442.96,"end":17444.96,"text":"那也希望在不久的將來"},{"start":17444.96,"end":17446.96,"text":"就是教育部這邊"},{"start":17446.96,"end":17448.96,"text":"跟我這邊我們能夠連手"},{"start":17448.96,"end":17450.96,"text":"來守護校戶的一些權益"},{"start":17450.96,"end":17452.96,"text":"然後保障偏遠地區學生的健康"},{"start":17452.96,"end":17454.96,"text":"這樣子以上謝謝"},{"start":17454.96,"end":17456.96,"text":"謝謝邱委員的質詢"},{"start":17456.96,"end":17458.96,"text":"請部長回座"},{"start":17458.96,"end":17460.96,"text":"接下來有請"},{"start":17460.96,"end":17462.96,"text":"廖先祥委員廖先祥委員"},{"start":17462.96,"end":17464.96,"text":"廖先祥委員不在"},{"start":17464.96,"end":17466.96,"text":"鄭政前委員鄭政前委員"},{"start":17466.96,"end":17468.96,"text":"鄭政前委員不在"},{"start":17469.7,"end":17471.7,"text":"有請李坤城委員巡談"},{"start":17477.95,"end":17479.95,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":17479.95,"end":17481.95,"text":"我們請鄭部長"},{"start":17481.95,"end":17483.95,"text":"有請鄭部長"},{"start":17487.71,"end":17489.71,"text":"部長好辛苦了"},{"start":17489.71,"end":17491.71,"text":"這個質詢到現在"},{"start":17491.71,"end":17493.71,"text":"那我先想跟部長討論一下這個"},{"start":17493.71,"end":17495.71,"text":"校園暴力的問題"},{"start":17495.71,"end":17497.71,"text":"那在2023年12月的時候"},{"start":17497.71,"end":17499.71,"text":"發生了這個新北校園的"},{"start":17499.71,"end":17501.71,"text":"這個歌頸案"},{"start":17501.71,"end":17503.71,"text":"那這個案子最後在2026年"},{"start":17503.71,"end":17505.71,"text":"今年2月定讞"},{"start":17505.71,"end":17507.71,"text":"那其中的這個郭南被判"},{"start":17507.71,"end":17509.71,"text":"12年"},{"start":17509.71,"end":17511.71,"text":"那教書的林女被判刑11年"},{"start":17511.71,"end":17513.71,"text":"那這已經定讞了"},{"start":17513.71,"end":17515.71,"text":"那這件事情也引起了說"},{"start":17515.71,"end":17517.71,"text":"大家要對於說這個少年事件處理法"},{"start":17517.71,"end":17519.71,"text":"要修法的一個問題"},{"start":17519.71,"end":17521.71,"text":"那在今年3月又發生了"},{"start":17521.71,"end":17523.71,"text":"這個國中生一個國中女生"},{"start":17523.71,"end":17525.71,"text":"被呂棒的"},{"start":17525.71,"end":17527.71,"text":"暴力的案子"},{"start":17527.71,"end":17529.71,"text":"我們當然希望說"},{"start":17529.71,"end":17531.71,"text":"藉由這個教育"},{"start":17531.71,"end":17533.71,"text":"然後藉由這個家庭"},{"start":17533.71,"end":17535.71,"text":"然後學校我們一起來"},{"start":17535.71,"end":17537.71,"text":"讓這個校園暴力的這個案子能夠減少"},{"start":17537.71,"end":17539.71,"text":"但是少年事件處理法"},{"start":17539.71,"end":17541.71,"text":"那的確也到了一個修法的"},{"start":17541.71,"end":17543.71,"text":"一個有這個必要性"},{"start":17543.71,"end":17545.71,"text":"那我先請教一下部長"},{"start":17545.71,"end":17547.71,"text":"那現在就是說"},{"start":17547.71,"end":17549.71,"text":"對於這個少年事件處理法"},{"start":17549.71,"end":17551.71,"text":"因為過去有這個"},{"start":17551.71,"end":17553.71,"text":"一律突銷情科"},{"start":17553.71,"end":17555.71,"text":"那就是說你只要比如說滿三年"},{"start":17555.71,"end":17557.71,"text":"那你沒有再犯就一律突銷情科"},{"start":17557.71,"end":17559.71,"text":"那現在民間團體"},{"start":17559.71,"end":17561.71,"text":"是希望說能夠採取這個"},{"start":17561.71,"end":17563.71,"text":"按照這個犯罪的"},{"start":17563.71,"end":17565.71,"text":"這個輕重才分級"},{"start":17565.71,"end":17567.71,"text":"這個來突銷"},{"start":17567.71,"end":17569.71,"text":"動態助氣"},{"start":17569.71,"end":17571.71,"text":"那我想請教一下這個部長的看法"},{"start":17575.4,"end":17577.4,"text":"這個我想"},{"start":17577.4,"end":17579.4,"text":"從教育來看"},{"start":17579.4,"end":17581.4,"text":"我們當然希望說人能夠"},{"start":17581.4,"end":17583.4,"text":"給他犯錯給他有一個機會"},{"start":17583.4,"end":17585.4,"text":"但是就"},{"start":17585.6,"end":17587.6,"text":"這裡邊的一個突銷他可能還是"},{"start":17587.6,"end":17589.6,"text":"涉及到這個司法"},{"start":17589.6,"end":17591.6,"text":"司法院相關的一些"},{"start":17591.6,"end":17593.6,"text":"那我是想說因為您是這個"},{"start":17593.6,"end":17595.6,"text":"教育部的部長嘛那您的看法"},{"start":17595.6,"end":17597.6,"text":"會跟這一個因為這個問題我有問過"},{"start":17597.6,"end":17599.6,"text":"這個司法院那他"},{"start":17599.6,"end":17601.6,"text":"當然現在他們的這個修法是希望說"},{"start":17601.6,"end":17603.6,"text":"採這一個分"},{"start":17603.6,"end":17605.6,"text":"這個罪的這個輕重"},{"start":17605.6,"end":17607.6,"text":"比如說他是如果是犯重罪的話"},{"start":17607.6,"end":17609.6,"text":"那可能這一個突銷的時間"},{"start":17609.6,"end":17611.6,"text":"會有分這個等級時間不同"},{"start":17611.6,"end":17613.6,"text":"那就教育部的立場來看"},{"start":17613.6,"end":17615.6,"text":"您對於這個上年事件處理法的修法"},{"start":17615.6,"end":17617.6,"text":"是抱持什麼樣一個態度"},{"start":17617.6,"end":17619.6,"text":"然後對於這個民間團體他們希望說"},{"start":17619.6,"end":17621.6,"text":"採取這個前科分級突銷"},{"start":17621.6,"end":17623.6,"text":"那您的態度怎麼樣"},{"start":17623.6,"end":17625.6,"text":"這裡邊譬如說這一個如果是來自"},{"start":17625.6,"end":1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那再來"},{"start":18026.28,"end":18027.28,"text":"另外一個問題"},{"start":18027.28,"end":18029.28,"text":"是有關於特教生的問題"},{"start":18029.28,"end":18031.28,"text":"就是說我看"},{"start":18031.28,"end":18032.28,"text":"部長您先看一下"},{"start":18032.28,"end":18034.28,"text":"您前方的這個表格"},{"start":18034.28,"end":18035.28,"text":"這個是各地特殊教育"},{"start":18035.28,"end":18037.28,"text":"他們去分類就是說"},{"start":18037.28,"end":18038.28,"text":"從11年到113年"},{"start":18038.28,"end":18041.28,"text":"特教生跟疑似生的數據的統計比例"},{"start":18041.28,"end":18042.28,"text":"可是呢"},{"start":18042.28,"end":18044.28,"text":"這張的問題在於說"},{"start":18044.28,"end":18046.28,"text":"我們依據特教法或是特教學生"},{"start":18046.28,"end":18048.28,"text":"以及幼兒鑑定辦法"},{"start":18048.28,"end":18051.28,"text":"其實沒有所謂疑似生的一個規範"},{"start":18051.28,"end":18052.28,"text":"而是我們的縣市政府"},{"start":18052.28,"end":18055.28,"text":"縣市政府卻有統計疑似生的規範"},{"start":18055.28,"end":18056.28,"text":"可是呢"},{"start":18056.28,"end":18057.28,"text":"在我們現行的法規"},{"start":18057.28,"end":18058.28,"text":"我們對於疑似生"},{"start":18058.28,"end":18061.28,"text":"是沒有辦法給予相關的支持和補助"},{"start":18061.28,"end":18064.28,"text":"所以為什麼會有這樣子的疑似生"},{"start":18064.28,"end":18066.28,"text":"這樣子的身分又代表什麼樣子的意義"},{"start":18066.28,"end":18069.28,"text":"我們能實際上給他什麼樣的支持呢"},{"start":18071.85,"end":18072.85,"text":"好 我們請"},{"start":18073.1,"end":18076.1,"text":"謝謝 疑似生他有兩個"},{"start":18076.1,"end":18077.1,"text":"至少兩個情況"},{"start":18077.1,"end":18079.1,"text":"第一個他在過程中"},{"start":18079.1,"end":18081.1,"text":"或是他原來鑑定沒有過等等"},{"start":18081.1,"end":18082.1,"text":"但是"},{"start":18082.9,"end":18083.9,"text":"都給予補助"},{"start":18084.66,"end":18086.66,"text":"我們現在疑似生也都有給予補助嗎"},{"start":18086.66,"end":18087.66,"text":"對 這個我們都給予補助"},{"start":18087.66,"end":18088.66,"text":"所以"},{"start":18088.66,"end":18090.66,"text":"那到底分特教生跟疑似生的意義"},{"start":18090.66,"end":18091.66,"text":"到底差別在哪裡"},{"start":18091.66,"end":18093.66,"text":"疑似生因為他有機會"},{"start":18093.66,"end":18095.66,"text":"而且很有機會"},{"start":18095.66,"end":18098.66,"text":"只是在相關的新品或相關的"},{"start":18098.66,"end":18100.66,"text":"收集資訊上"},{"start":18100.66,"end":18102.66,"text":"還要比較完善一點"},{"start":18102.66,"end":18103.66,"text":"但是他看起來"},{"start":18103.66,"end":18105.66,"text":"其實很多都是需要照顧"},{"start":18105.66,"end":18106.66,"text":"所以在政府"},{"start":18106.66,"end":18107.66,"text":"不管中央地方"},{"start":18107.66,"end":18108.66,"text":"都有給予協助"},{"start":18108.66,"end":18109.66,"text":"如果有個案"},{"start":18109.66,"end":18110.66,"text":"我們可以馬上來"},{"start":18110.66,"end":18111.66,"text":"就委員的這個說明來處理"},{"start":18111.66,"end":18112.66,"text":"其實我今天討論到"},{"start":18112.66,"end":18113.66,"text":"不是因為個案的問題"},{"start":18113.66,"end":18114.66,"text":"沒問題"},{"start":18114.66,"end":18115.66,"text":"應該是說"},{"start":18115.66,"end":18116.66,"text":"我們現在這種"},{"start":18116.66,"end":18118.66,"text":"鑑定疑似生的做法"},{"start":18118.66,"end":18120.66,"text":"對 所以我第二個要跟我們報告"},{"start":18120.66,"end":18122.66,"text":"您剛才看到的"},{"start":18122.66,"end":18125.66,"text":"將近有11分之1或10分之1這一個"},{"start":18125.66,"end":18127.66,"text":"我們現在的策略是"},{"start":18127.66,"end":18128.66,"text":"既然都照顧"},{"start":18128.66,"end":18129.66,"text":"但也希望縣市政府"},{"start":18129.66,"end":18131.66,"text":"其實能夠加快"},{"start":18131.66,"end":18133.66,"text":"讓他變成真正可以"},{"start":18133.66,"end":18134.66,"text":"直接就叫做"},{"start":18134.66,"end":18136.66,"text":"是特教的需求的孩子"},{"start":18136.66,"end":18138.66,"text":"在那個疑似生那個階段"},{"start":18138.66,"end":18139.66,"text":"不要太久"},{"start":18139.66,"end":18140.66,"text":"不要太久"},{"start":18140.66,"end":18141.66,"text":"不要太久"},{"start":18141.66,"end":18143.66,"text":"所以盡量把它完整的"},{"start":18143.66,"end":18145.66,"text":"把它去可以送到"},{"start":18145.66,"end":18146.66,"text":"是特教生這一邊來"},{"start":18146.66,"end":18149.66,"text":"那這一個鑑定的相關的規範"},{"start":18149.66,"end":18151.66,"text":"或是因為他涉及到專業"},{"start":18151.66,"end":18152.66,"text":"是不是容我們"},{"start":18152.66,"end":18155.66,"text":"會後把各縣市的情況"},{"start":18155.66,"end":18156.66,"text":"整理給委員"},{"start":18156.66,"end":18157.66,"text":"我們的策略"},{"start":18157.66,"end":18159.66,"text":"也跟委員做個報告"},{"start":18159.66,"end":18160.66,"text":"好 因為我認為"},{"start":18160.66,"end":18161.66,"text":"疑似生其實並沒有得到"},{"start":18161.66,"end":18163.66,"text":"相對應的足夠的資源"},{"start":18163.66,"end":18165.66,"text":"我覺得這還是在各縣市上面"},{"start":18165.66,"end":18166.66,"text":"存在資源上面的落差"},{"start":18166.66,"end":18168.66,"text":"那同時我也看到就是說"},{"start":18168.66,"end":18170.66,"text":"台北市在疑似生的比例"},{"start":18171.53,"end":18173.53,"text":"數量其實都是比其他縣市"},{"start":18173.53,"end":18175.53,"text":"要來得更高"},{"start":18175.53,"end":18176.53,"text":"我覺得這是一個"},{"start":18176.53,"end":18177.53,"text":"蠻大的問題"},{"start":18177.53,"end":18178.53,"text":"就變成是說"},{"start":18178.53,"end":18179.53,"text":"像我之前也處理了一些個案"},{"start":18179.53,"end":18180.53,"text":"就是這些孩子就是"},{"start":18180.53,"end":18182.53,"text":"永遠都沒有辦法被判定"},{"start":18182.53,"end":18183.53,"text":"是特殊生"},{"start":18183.53,"end":18185.53,"text":"可是在醫學的鑑定上面"},{"start":18185.53,"end":18186.53,"text":"他就是特殊生"},{"start":18186.53,"end":18188.53,"text":"可是當地的縣市教育局"},{"start":18188.53,"end":18190.53,"text":"就是不願意給他"},{"start":18190.53,"end":18191.53,"text":"這樣子的資格"},{"start":18191.53,"end":18192.53,"text":"所以我不認為疑似生"},{"start":18192.53,"end":18194.53,"text":"的確有得到相對應的補助"},{"start":18194.53,"end":18195.53,"text":"那這件事情呢"},{"start":18195.53,"end":18197.53,"text":"我認為是非常重要"},{"start":18197.53,"end":18198.53,"text":"因為它實際的影響到"},{"start":18198.53,"end":18199.53,"text":"這個學生"},{"start":18199.53,"end":18200.53,"text":"他得到的支持"},{"start":18200.53,"end":18203.53,"text":"以及他可能會造成課間上面"},{"start":18203.53,"end":18204.53,"text":"老師能不能給予他"},{"start":18204.53,"end":18206.53,"text":"足夠的正確的支持"},{"start":18206.53,"end":18208.53,"text":"所以除了這個孩子外"},{"start":18208.53,"end":18210.53,"text":"學生還有其他的學生"},{"start":18210.53,"end":18212.53,"text":"以及這個同這個老師"},{"start":18212.53,"end":18214.53,"text":"其實都會因疑似生"},{"start":18214.53,"end":18216.53,"text":"而沒有辦法得到足夠的支持"},{"start":18216.53,"end":18217.53,"text":"這一個東西"},{"start":18217.53,"end":18219.53,"text":"我覺得是要徹底的檢討"},{"start":18219.53,"end":18221.53,"text":"特別還有各縣市對於疑似生的規範"},{"start":18221.53,"end":18223.53,"text":"也是非常的不一致"},{"start":18224.86,"end":18227.86,"text":"所以我想就是這個部分呢"},{"start":18227.86,"end":18229.86,"text":"等到你們收集好各縣市的資料的時候"},{"start":18229.86,"end":18231.86,"text":"我們要一起來重新的檢討"},{"start":18231.86,"end":18232.86,"text":"因為這也是學校的老師"},{"start":18232.86,"end":18233.86,"text":"跟我反應的問題"},{"start":18233.86,"end":18234.86,"text":"謝謝委員會"},{"start":18234.86,"end":18235.86,"text":"謝謝我們特教生"},{"start":18235.86,"end":18237.86,"text":"確實台北市的疑似生"},{"start":18237.86,"end":18239.86,"text":"有異常的一個波"},{"start":18239.86,"end":18240.86,"text":"沒錯非常高"},{"start":18240.86,"end":18241.86,"text":"我想這個會後"},{"start":18241.86,"end":18242.86,"text":"我們來跟台北市"},{"start":18242.86,"end":18245.86,"text":"跟這個湯局長"},{"start":18245.86,"end":18247.86,"text":"我們來瞭解一下"},{"start":18247.86,"end":18249.86,"text":"到底發生什麼事"},{"start":18249.86,"end":18250.86,"text":"對因為你看他跟新北市相比"},{"start":18250.86,"end":18252.86,"text":"因為他是在評估在鑑定"},{"start":18252.86,"end":18253.86,"text":"在各方面裡面"},{"start":18253.86,"end":18255.86,"text":"流程跟為什麼就比例上來講"},{"start":18255.86,"end":18257.86,"text":"為什麼他有異常的高"},{"start":18257.86,"end":18258.86,"text":"沒錯啊"},{"start":18258.86,"end":18260.86,"text":"他光是新北市都是好幾倍了"},{"start":18260.86,"end":18262.86,"text":"所以我想這個部分"},{"start":18262.86,"end":18264.86,"text":"麻煩部長關心"},{"start":18264.86,"end":18266.86,"text":"畢竟每個都是我們很重要的孩子"},{"start":18266.86,"end":18267.86,"text":"那對於這個東西"},{"start":18267.86,"end":18269.86,"text":"我們有機會在半年內"},{"start":18269.86,"end":18271.86,"text":"有一個延商的方向嗎"},{"start":18271.86,"end":18272.86,"text":"是可以"},{"start":18272.86,"end":18273.86,"text":"可以好謝謝"},{"start":18275.38,"end":18278.38,"text":"好謝謝張雅玲委員的質詢"},{"start":18278.38,"end":18280.38,"text":"請部長回座"},{"start":18280.38,"end":18282.38,"text":"下一位何欣淳委員"},{"start":18282.38,"end":18284.38,"text":"何欣淳委員"},{"start":18284.38,"end":18285.38,"text":"何欣淳委員不在"},{"start":18285.38,"end":18286.38,"text":"林楚英委員"},{"start":18286.38,"end":18287.38,"text":"林楚英委員"},{"start":18287.38,"end":18289.38,"text":"林楚英委員不在"},{"start":18289.38,"end":18293.38,"text":"下一位請洪孟凱委員上台詢答"},{"start":18297.13,"end":18298.13,"text":"主席謝謝"},{"start":18298.13,"end":18299.13,"text":"麻煩請鄭部長"},{"start":18299.13,"end":18301.13,"text":"好有請鄭部長"},{"start":18304.44,"end":18307.44,"text":"好部長我們教育文化委員會同仁大家辛苦"},{"start":18307.44,"end":18310.44,"text":"本來本席是真的想說中午就趕快"},{"start":18310.44,"end":18312.44,"text":"但是因為有個案件"},{"start":18312.44,"end":18313.44,"text":"我真的還是過意不去"},{"start":18313.44,"end":18314.44,"text":"一定要過來反應"},{"start":18314.44,"end":18316.44,"text":"跟希望能夠聽到部長"},{"start":18316.44,"end":18317.44,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":18317.44,"end":18322.44,"text":"就是最近發生這個女國中生的一個霸凌事件"},{"start":18322.44,"end":18324.44,"text":"那霸凌的一個影片"},{"start":18324.44,"end":18325.44,"text":"也在推上面有在轉傳"},{"start":18325.44,"end":18327.44,"text":"那當然這個絕對不要傳"},{"start":18327.44,"end":18329.44,"text":"是因為這可能會造成當事人多次傷害"},{"start":18329.44,"end":18331.44,"text":"但本席想要講的是說"},{"start":18331.44,"end":18334.44,"text":"嚴重的霸凌現在的現行制度"},{"start":18334.44,"end":18336.44,"text":"雖然我們過去已經討論了非常久"},{"start":18336.44,"end":18337.44,"text":"但還是實際有"},{"start":18337.44,"end":18338.44,"text":"那就變成是說"},{"start":18338.44,"end":18341.44,"text":"霸凌者他到底有沒有負起應有的責任"},{"start":18342.96,"end":18345.96,"text":"而讓他我們已經有做很多的方向"},{"start":18345.96,"end":18346.96,"text":"不管是社會安全網"},{"start":18346.96,"end":18349.96,"text":"不管是校園的一個教導指導等等"},{"start":18349.96,"end":18351.96,"text":"但是還是有人霸凌"},{"start":18351.96,"end":18356.96,"text":"那霸凌能不能也要要求霸凌者負起相對應的責任"},{"start":18356.96,"end":18357.96,"text":"我先請教"},{"start":18357.96,"end":18359.96,"text":"因為現行的法律制度來講的話"},{"start":18359.96,"end":18360.96,"text":"他可能會變成是"},{"start":18360.96,"end":18365.96,"text":"校園裡面調查輔導記點轉班或是轉校"},{"start":18365.96,"end":18367.96,"text":"但是他當轉校之後"},{"start":18367.96,"end":18369.96,"text":"後續他要升學什麼的"},{"start":18369.96,"end":18372.96,"text":"還是如果他之後變洗白了"},{"start":18372.96,"end":18373.96,"text":"還是升學"},{"start":18375.46,"end":18377.46,"text":"那有看到韓國的例子"},{"start":18377.46,"end":18379.46,"text":"其實韓國過去霸凌也非常嚴重"},{"start":18380.56,"end":18381.56,"text":"部長你應該也理解嘛"},{"start":18381.56,"end":18384.56,"text":"韓國他們在2025年2026年開始有"},{"start":18384.56,"end":18387.56,"text":"列入校園霸凌的扣分制度"},{"start":18387.56,"end":18392.56,"text":"就是把他變成是在升學時候的一個評分標準"},{"start":18392.56,"end":18394.56,"text":"那當然一定有會有人有反對意見"},{"start":18394.56,"end":18397.56,"text":"因為講是說這樣子會不會讓孩童造成是說"},{"start":18397.56,"end":18402.56,"text":"他半自過沒有辦法去這個改過向上改過自新"},{"start":18402.56,"end":18404.56,"text":"但是我們現在要討論的地方這也是"},{"start":18404.56,"end":18407.56,"text":"如果他已經非常離譜的"},{"start":18407.56,"end":18410.56,"text":"已經造成人身傷害的嚴重霸凌"},{"start":18410.56,"end":18412.56,"text":"或是重複反覆霸凌的情況"},{"start":18412.56,"end":18415.56,"text":"我們是不是應該也要讓霸凌者負起相對應的責任"},{"start":18415.56,"end":18417.56,"text":"我完全不意委員的看法"},{"start":18417.56,"end":18421.56,"text":"當這個防護造成人身的傷害"},{"start":18421.56,"end":18423.56,"text":"他必須要付出法律的責任"},{"start":18423.56,"end":18425.56,"text":"我覺得這是肯定的"},{"start":18425.56,"end":18429.56,"text":"但付出法律的責任的同時相對應的"},{"start":18429.56,"end":18433.56,"text":"因為好譬如說部長就如同現在這個案件"},{"start":18433.56,"end":18437.56,"text":"他是女國中生被學姐逼下跪呼巴掌"},{"start":18439.67,"end":18441.67,"text":"那這有人身傷害會有傷害罪"},{"start":18441.67,"end":18443.67,"text":"但可能他的傷害罪相對性"},{"start":18443.67,"end":18445.67,"text":"而且還要走司法程序等等"},{"start":18445.67,"end":18448.67,"text":"但如果說這一個事件譬如說過了之後"},{"start":18448.67,"end":18451.67,"text":"沒有再往上或是說他霸凌"},{"start":18451.67,"end":18454.67,"text":"沒有去譬如說校內記過而已"},{"start":18455.77,"end":18457.77,"text":"那他沒有法律上的責任的時候"},{"start":18458.81,"end":18460.81,"text":"那他還是一樣構成霸凌"},{"start":18461.71,"end":18466.71,"text":"那他有沒有對於應該對於這部分他升學的地方"},{"start":18466.71,"end":18470.71,"text":"要有所要有記錄或是要有所這個取捨"},{"start":18471.08,"end":18474.08,"text":"部長這就是我們今天要談論的議題"},{"start":18474.08,"end":18478.08,"text":"是不是把他納入他的升學的一些扣分"},{"start":18478.08,"end":18485.08,"text":"或者在許多的這些他可享用的資源上的一些暫停或者隔離"},{"start":18485.08,"end":18489.08,"text":"我想這個我們確實是可以來研究"},{"start":18489.08,"end":18492.08,"text":"是因為現在我們就看到韓國已經在做了"},{"start":18492.08,"end":18495.08,"text":"韓國甚至他們從2025年去年的時候"},{"start":18495.08,"end":18497.08,"text":"就是因為有高官的兒子"},{"start":18497.08,"end":18499.08,"text":"他在校園做霸凌事件"},{"start":18499.08,"end":18502.08,"text":"但到最後他還可以考上一個鼎建大學"},{"start":18502.08,"end":18504.08,"text":"造成全國嘩然"},{"start":18504.08,"end":18507.08,"text":"而且因為我們現在即便是我們的制度"},{"start":18507.08,"end":18510.08,"text":"已經有所謂的校內的評議委員會"},{"start":18510.08,"end":18513.08,"text":"但是社會有些時候也是一個縮影"},{"start":18513.08,"end":18518.08,"text":"但霸凌者他會霸凌他可能自視家庭的背景不錯"},{"start":18518.08,"end":18521.08,"text":"所以如果說真的成立評議委員會的時候"},{"start":18521.08,"end":18525.08,"text":"也許他的家長也會有互相的勢力角力"},{"start":18525.08,"end":18527.08,"text":"也造成說沒有辦法還原公道"},{"start":18527.08,"end":18529.08,"text":"也因此我們今天才講是說"},{"start":18529.08,"end":18533.08,"text":"既然韓國以及其他國家有針對校園霸凌的部分"},{"start":18533.08,"end":18536.08,"text":"能夠用更積極的態度去做處理"},{"start":18536.08,"end":18539.08,"text":"那我們台灣能不能來做一個參考"},{"start":18539.08,"end":18542.08,"text":"所以感謝剛剛部長你有講到是說正面的回憶"},{"start":18542.08,"end":18543.08,"text":"是可以研議"},{"start":18543.08,"end":18546.08,"text":"那我們是不是可以針對這個部分"},{"start":18546.08,"end":18549.08,"text":"請教育部參考韓國現在的一個做法"},{"start":18549.08,"end":18552.08,"text":"甚至來了解是說他們用這樣的做法之後"},{"start":18552.08,"end":18553.08,"text":"有沒有什麼後遺症"},{"start":18553.08,"end":18556.08,"text":"以及有沒有減少霸凌的案件"},{"start":18556.08,"end":18558.08,"text":"那什麼時候可以給我們本席一個"},{"start":18559.37,"end":18560.37,"text":"書面的一個報告"},{"start":18561.41,"end":18564.41,"text":"我們是因為這裡邊收集國外的資料"},{"start":18564.41,"end":18569.41,"text":"我們跟學者專家希望能夠有一個更深入的一些討論"},{"start":18569.41,"end":18570.41,"text":"是不是兩個月"},{"start":18570.41,"end":18571.41,"text":"兩個月"},{"start":18571.41,"end":18573.41,"text":"好 本席等你兩個月"},{"start":18573.41,"end":18576.41,"text":"但本席希望看到的是如果說確實有效"},{"start":18576.41,"end":18579.41,"text":"那我們應該可以往這個方向來推動"},{"start":18579.41,"end":18582.41,"text":"因為這可能不只是立法或修法"},{"start":18582.41,"end":18583.41,"text":"而是牽扯到更"},{"start":18583.41,"end":18585.41,"text":"你老表家長也有負年代責任"},{"start":18585.41,"end":18586.41,"text":"是"},{"start":18586.41,"end":18590.41,"text":"如果真正的一個青少年在學校犯下了一個"},{"start":18590.41,"end":18592.41,"text":"非常嚴重的一個傷害的一個"},{"start":18592.41,"end":18595.41,"text":"我想家長也不能這一個"},{"start":18595.41,"end":18596.41,"text":"置身事外"},{"start":18596.41,"end":18597.41,"text":"置身事外"},{"start":18597.41,"end":18600.41,"text":"我想這個我們比較系統性的"},{"start":18600.41,"end":18601.41,"text":"是 謝謝 部長您提到一個重點"},{"start":18601.41,"end":18603.41,"text":"因為這也是本席在講是說"},{"start":18603.41,"end":18605.41,"text":"因為很多人會講說少事法的部分"},{"start":18605.41,"end":18606.41,"text":"我也有提案"},{"start":18606.41,"end":18609.41,"text":"但是少事法已經變成是刑案的部分"},{"start":18609.41,"end":18611.41,"text":"你的前科要做塗銷與否"},{"start":18611.41,"end":18612.41,"text":"這個是一塊"},{"start":18612.41,"end":18616.41,"text":"但本席現在講到的是更普遍的霸凌現象"},{"start":18616.41,"end":18618.41,"text":"你說孤立人"},{"start":18618.41,"end":18619.41,"text":"潑人家水"},{"start":18619.41,"end":18620.41,"text":"然後叫人家下跪"},{"start":18620.41,"end":18622.41,"text":"甚至罰站唱國歌"},{"start":18623.46,"end":18625.46,"text":"我說這些都是我們過去在國中"},{"start":18625.46,"end":18629.46,"text":"高中升學的時候有聽過或是有"},{"start":18629.46,"end":18632.46,"text":"看到的霸凌狀況"},{"start":18632.46,"end":18633.46,"text":"那既然如此"},{"start":18633.46,"end":18635.46,"text":"這些他又沒有到涉及刑案"},{"start":18635.46,"end":18637.46,"text":"可是他真的是如果反覆"},{"start":18637.46,"end":18638.46,"text":"不要讓他變成是說"},{"start":18638.46,"end":18639.46,"text":"他在這個學校完了之後"},{"start":18639.46,"end":18641.46,"text":"可以轉學到另外一個學校"},{"start":18641.46,"end":18643.46,"text":"他就重新醒白重新再次"},{"start":18643.46,"end":18644.46,"text":"然後沒有任何紀錄"},{"start":18644.46,"end":18648.46,"text":"我想學校所有的機制都是希望"},{"start":18648.46,"end":18650.46,"text":"能夠讓學生知過能改"},{"start":18650.46,"end":18652.46,"text":"而且往好的方向走"},{"start":18652.46,"end":18655.46,"text":"我想這個真不管任何一個機制"},{"start":18655.46,"end":18656.46,"text":"任何一個辦法"},{"start":18656.46,"end":18659.46,"text":"任何一個制度都是這樣的一個本質"},{"start":18659.46,"end":18662.46,"text":"教育的本質當然是希望讓大家"},{"start":18662.46,"end":18666.46,"text":"但是如果說真的已經一而再再而三"},{"start":18666.46,"end":18669.46,"text":"也應當讓霸凌者負起相對應的責任"},{"start":18669.46,"end":18670.46,"text":"故意履犯"},{"start":18670.46,"end":18672.46,"text":"我想這我們應該要有一個"},{"start":18672.46,"end":18674.46,"text":"因為說實在那個影片"},{"start":18674.46,"end":18675.46,"text":"不一樣的一個機制"},{"start":18675.46,"end":18678.46,"text":"我們任何人都於心不忍再去看"},{"start":18678.46,"end":18679.46,"text":"那既然"},{"start":18679.46,"end":18681.46,"text":"但是我們不能因為我們沒有看"},{"start":18681.46,"end":18683.46,"text":"而當這個影片沒發生"},{"start":18683.96,"end":18685.96,"text":"他確實有發生"},{"start":18685.96,"end":18687.96,"text":"也因此我們才會說希望能夠更積極的態度"},{"start":18687.96,"end":18688.96,"text":"那兩個月"},{"start":18688.96,"end":18691.96,"text":"兩個月之後我看到教育部的報告"},{"start":18691.96,"end":18693.96,"text":"我也會再進一步的針對這個部分"},{"start":18693.96,"end":18695.96,"text":"來跟教育部做研究討論好嗎"},{"start":18695.96,"end":18696.96,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":18697.56,"end":18699.56,"text":"謝謝何孟凱委員的質詢"},{"start":18699.56,"end":18700.56,"text":"請部長回座"},{"start":18701.83,"end":18703.83,"text":"下一位徐富貴委員"},{"start":18703.83,"end":18704.83,"text":"徐富貴委員"},{"start":18704.83,"end":18705.83,"text":"徐富貴委員不在"},{"start":18706.86,"end":18709.86,"text":"有請林倩琪委員上台詢答"},{"start":18718.72,"end":18720.72,"text":"謝謝我們的主席吳釗偉"},{"start":18720.72,"end":18723.72,"text":"我請我們部長"},{"start":18723.72,"end":18726.72,"text":"再次有請鄭部長"},{"start":18726.72,"end":18727.72,"text":"謝謝鄭部長"},{"start":18727.72,"end":18729.72,"text":"部長 普惠同仁大家好"},{"start":18729.72,"end":18734.72,"text":"本席長期在關心有關於偏鄉跟原鄉的一個教育環境"},{"start":18734.72,"end":18737.72,"text":"那最主要是因為這些地方資源不足"},{"start":18737.72,"end":18740.72,"text":"失之不穩的結構性問題也是長期存在"},{"start":18740.72,"end":18743.72,"text":"那但是今天本席要針對一個個案"},{"start":18743.72,"end":18745.72,"text":"來做一些關心"},{"start":18745.72,"end":18749.72,"text":"也就是跟本席脈絡也很親的這個澎湖縣"},{"start":18749.72,"end":18751.72,"text":"那這是離島的一個問題"},{"start":18751.72,"end":18755.72,"text":"我想跟偏鄉原鄉都有一些相同的處境"},{"start":18755.72,"end":18759.72,"text":"那麼大石國橋有一個家長的集體陳情案件"},{"start":18759.72,"end":18762.72,"text":"那全校大概14名學生已經很少了"},{"start":18762.72,"end":18764.72,"text":"只有近半以上"},{"start":18764.72,"end":18765.72,"text":"也不是近半"},{"start":18765.72,"end":18768.72,"text":"應該多於一半以上的大概有9位家長的連署"},{"start":18768.72,"end":18774.72,"text":"來向這個教育相關單位去反映教學跟行政的問題"},{"start":18774.72,"end":18777.72,"text":"那也提出了20幾頁的這個具體市政"},{"start":18777.72,"end":18780.72,"text":"那反映的內容包括課程長期落後"},{"start":18780.72,"end":18782.72,"text":"然後期末也倉促趕課"},{"start":18782.72,"end":18785.72,"text":"然後最重要的是也常常存在的一個"},{"start":18785.72,"end":18787.72,"text":"教學還沒有完成就進行評量"},{"start":18787.72,"end":18788.72,"text":"那考試"},{"start":18788.72,"end":18791.72,"text":"考試的狀況又自行翻書"},{"start":18791.72,"end":18797.72,"text":"那這樣子的狀況對家長來講很難以想像"},{"start":18797.72,"end":18800.72,"text":"那這些問題都很長期的累積"},{"start":18800.72,"end":18803.72,"text":"那這個教學行政跟校務的層面"},{"start":18803.72,"end":18805.72,"text":"那校長也沒有辦法督導"},{"start":18805.72,"end":18809.72,"text":"那整個錄班的一個官客跟教學輔導的機制"},{"start":18809.72,"end":18810.72,"text":"沒有好好發揮功能"},{"start":18810.72,"end":18813.72,"text":"感覺像學校好像失序了一些治理"},{"start":18813.72,"end":18816.72,"text":"所以都是像縣府的教育處反應"},{"start":18816.72,"end":18817.72,"text":"也沒有具體的改善"},{"start":18817.72,"end":18820.72,"text":"那麼所以在這個部分本席請教"},{"start":18820.72,"end":18822.72,"text":"第一個部分是"},{"start":18822.72,"end":18824.72,"text":"如果對於家長多次具體陳情"},{"start":18824.72,"end":18825.72,"text":"也沒有辦法改善的案件"},{"start":18825.72,"end":18827.72,"text":"教育部會不會多做一些瞭解"},{"start":18827.72,"end":18828.72,"text":"然後去做處理"},{"start":18828.72,"end":18830.72,"text":"然後第二個部分是"},{"start":18830.72,"end":18832.72,"text":"像偏鄉這類小學校的案件"},{"start":18832.72,"end":18836.72,"text":"當地主管機關如果沒有能夠有效的處理的時候"},{"start":18836.72,"end":18840.72,"text":"教育部是不是有主動能夠介入跟督導的一個機制"},{"start":18840.72,"end":18842.72,"text":"還是完全仰賴地方的一個治理"},{"start":18842.72,"end":18844.72,"text":"那第二個部分是"},{"start":18844.72,"end":18847.72,"text":"目前對於教師品質跟這個校務運作的監督"},{"start":18847.72,"end":18850.72,"text":"有沒有一個跨縣市一致的標準"},{"start":18850.72,"end":18852.72,"text":"那會不會因為地方的差異"},{"start":18852.72,"end":18856.72,"text":"讓偏鄉的學生或離島的學生的權益就被打折"},{"start":18856.72,"end":18859.72,"text":"那這個部分是不是請部長先回應"},{"start":18859.72,"end":18863.72,"text":"謝謝委員提醒我們這個大臣大持國小"},{"start":18863.72,"end":18866.72,"text":"我想我們在下半之前我們一定會了解"},{"start":18866.72,"end":18868.72,"text":"然後必要的時候我們就會"},{"start":18868.72,"end":18873.72,"text":"這個國家組會專人到學校裡面去介入實地的一個勘察"},{"start":18873.72,"end":18875.72,"text":"最主要主動關心"},{"start":18875.72,"end":18880.72,"text":"離島整個資源狀況也跟偏鄉"},{"start":18880.72,"end":18884.72,"text":"我們現在也會把整個世界把它做一個前面的瞭解"},{"start":18884.72,"end":18886.72,"text":"對可能做一個關心好不好"},{"start":18886.72,"end":18889.72,"text":"那麼最重要就是說那個中央跟地方"},{"start":18889.72,"end":18891.72,"text":"這有效的一個補位的救濟機制"},{"start":18891.72,"end":18896.72,"text":"可能請那個部裡面要針對這些可能最沒有資源"},{"start":18896.72,"end":18898.72,"text":"最需要保障的學生去做一個處理"},{"start":18898.72,"end":18902.72,"text":"讓教育的一個公平性能夠被落實"},{"start":18902.72,"end":18905.72,"text":"那接下來本席也在談一個長期以來大家都在講"},{"start":18905.72,"end":18908.72,"text":"但是也是這個通面性的一個問題"},{"start":18908.72,"end":18912.72,"text":"也就是學習歷程檔案的一個實際成效"},{"start":18912.72,"end":18914.72,"text":"那本席進入立法院之後"},{"start":18914.72,"end":18916.72,"text":"其實這個議題常在談"},{"start":18916.72,"end":18918.72,"text":"那幾年來都會再整理一次"},{"start":18918.72,"end":18922.72,"text":"然後我想他的初衷最重要是希望能夠憑良多元化"},{"start":18922.72,"end":18925.72,"text":"但是實務的運作到底有沒有再符合他的初衷"},{"start":18925.72,"end":18928.72,"text":"那一段時間都會有人拿出來討論"},{"start":18928.72,"end":18929.72,"text":"那麼你們的國教所統計"},{"start":18929.72,"end":18933.72,"text":"一年八的課綱第一屆到第三屆的高中畢業生"},{"start":18933.72,"end":18936.72,"text":"那整個的學習成果沒有提交的比例"},{"start":18936.72,"end":18941.72,"text":"從第一屆的18.31%達到了第三屆的30.17%"},{"start":18941.72,"end":18943.72,"text":"那這個沒有提交比例的增加"},{"start":18943.72,"end":18948.72,"text":"那是不是制度的一個運作有一些明顯的落差"},{"start":18948.72,"end":18950.72,"text":"那這邊我們來談一下"},{"start":18950.72,"end":18953.72,"text":"其實很多人也提到學習歷程在實務上"},{"start":18953.72,"end":18955.72,"text":"漸漸變成了一個資源的競爭者"},{"start":18955.72,"end":18958.72,"text":"那有資源的學生就參加各種營隊"},{"start":18958.72,"end":18959.72,"text":"製作精美的檔案"},{"start":18959.72,"end":18962.72,"text":"然後外部還可以進行一些內容的包裝"},{"start":18962.72,"end":18965.72,"text":"但是實際這個資源比較少的學生"},{"start":18965.72,"end":18968.72,"text":"比如說像本席關注的偏鄉、園鄉"},{"start":18968.72,"end":18970.72,"text":"甚至剛才所說的離島的這個個案"},{"start":18970.72,"end":18973.72,"text":"往往沒有辦法投入相同的時間跟成本"},{"start":18973.72,"end":18977.72,"text":"那這個其實是這樣子的"},{"start":18977.72,"end":18979.72,"text":"本來是希望多元化的初衷"},{"start":18979.72,"end":18981.72,"text":"結果擴大了城鄉的一個差距"},{"start":18981.72,"end":18983.72,"text":"跟社會階級的落差"},{"start":18983.72,"end":18986.72,"text":"然後最後本席還要提醒AI時代的來臨"},{"start":18986.72,"end":18990.72,"text":"那生存式的AI也會在學習歷程檔案"},{"start":18990.72,"end":18993.72,"text":"在真實性上跟可驗證性上面臨挑戰"},{"start":18993.72,"end":18996.72,"text":"那包括部裡面或者是相關單位"},{"start":18996.72,"end":18998.72,"text":"要來檢測的話呢"},{"start":18998.72,"end":19000.72,"text":"也是有很大的一個問題"},{"start":19000.72,"end":19002.72,"text":"所以目前大學的入學"},{"start":19002.72,"end":19005.72,"text":"主要還是以學測成績做為門檻"},{"start":19005.72,"end":19008.72,"text":"那學習歷程本來應該是輔助的資料"},{"start":19008.72,"end":19011.72,"text":"那是不是在這個部分整個升學體制當中的定位"},{"start":19011.72,"end":19014.72,"text":"你們要不要再做一個比較確切的一個回應"},{"start":19014.72,"end":19018.72,"text":"那最重要就是說制度如果沒有辦法減輕壓力"},{"start":19018.72,"end":19021.72,"text":"就增加了一些沒有必要的負擔"},{"start":19021.72,"end":19023.72,"text":"又擴大了不平等"},{"start":19023.72,"end":19026.72,"text":"那是不是應該要檢討啦"},{"start":19026.72,"end":19028.72,"text":"我們其實長期以來也有很多檢討的聲音"},{"start":19028.72,"end":19030.72,"text":"但是這個問題還是存在"},{"start":19030.72,"end":19034.72,"text":"這個一個痛案性的問題本席在這邊就今天的質詢"},{"start":19034.72,"end":19036.72,"text":"也在提出一些這個問題"},{"start":19036.72,"end":19039.72,"text":"是不是部長這邊可以很快的簡單的回應"},{"start":19039.72,"end":19043.72,"text":"謝謝委員可是我們學習歷程檔案有它一定的價值"},{"start":19043.72,"end":19045.72,"text":"但是怎麼樣以實際進"},{"start":19045.72,"end":19049.72,"text":"我們現在請大考中心跟高中端"},{"start":19049.72,"end":19052.72,"text":"在研擬看有怎麼樣能夠以實際進"},{"start":19052.72,"end":19054.72,"text":"包含剛才委員所提的"},{"start":19054.72,"end":19056.72,"text":"雖然我們的老師大學老師"},{"start":19056.72,"end":19060.72,"text":"很多人他是很認真在看學生的學習歷程檔案"},{"start":19060.72,"end":19063.72,"text":"但是AI的一個深層式的AI會不會"},{"start":19063.72,"end":19065.72,"text":"本席剛才提醒了一個新的問題"},{"start":19065.72,"end":19068.72,"text":"造成許多更新的一些挑戰"},{"start":19068.72,"end":19076.72,"text":"我想我們會願意認識這個問題來做討論來看怎麼樣"},{"start":19076.72,"end":19079.72,"text":"最重要的就是說不要再增加大家太多的負擔"},{"start":19079.72,"end":19081.72,"text":"然後做的事情如果沒有效度"},{"start":19081.72,"end":19083.72,"text":"那原本的初衷又達不到"},{"start":19083.72,"end":19085.72,"text":"然後資源的落差越來越大"},{"start":19085.72,"end":19088.72,"text":"然後成像差異又更明顯的話"},{"start":19088.72,"end":19091.72,"text":"我想真的要好好的檢討一下初衷"},{"start":19091.72,"end":19093.72,"text":"然後跟實際的一個執行的狀況"},{"start":19093.72,"end":19096.72,"text":"跟我們未來即將面臨的挑戰"},{"start":19096.72,"end":19101.72,"text":"那這個部分部裡面真的要很審慎的做一些檢討跟討論好不好"},{"start":19101.72,"end":19103.72,"text":"那如果有相關的這個進度"},{"start":19103.72,"end":19105.72,"text":"是不是可以把一些階段性的報告"},{"start":19105.72,"end":19107.72,"text":"送給本席的一個研究室好嗎"},{"start":19107.72,"end":19108.72,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":19109.38,"end":19112.38,"text":"謝謝林茜琪委員的質詢"},{"start":19112.38,"end":19114.38,"text":"請部長回座"},{"start":19114.38,"end":19116.38,"text":"下一位蘇清泉委員"},{"start":19116.38,"end":19119.38,"text":"蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在"},{"start":19120.48,"end":19124.48,"text":"盧憲一委員盧憲一委員盧憲一委員不在"},{"start":19124.48,"end":19128.48,"text":"今天登記質詢的委員均已發言完畢"},{"start":19128.48,"end":19129.48,"text":"詢答結束"},{"start":19129.48,"end":19133.48,"text":"另外有盧憲一萬美齡徐富貴三位委員"},{"start":19133.48,"end":19136.48,"text":"提出書面質詢列入公報記錄"},{"start":19136.48,"end":19141.48,"text":"那因為等一下要做教師法第25條的排審"},{"start":19141.48,"end":19144.48,"text":"為立於討論準備協商的場地"},{"start":19144.48,"end":19146.48,"text":"也讓大家先用餐"},{"start":19146.48,"end":19149.48,"text":"我們休息到下午三點"},{"start":19149.48,"end":19153.48,"text":"跟審查法案無關的列席機關代表"},{"start":19153.48,"end":19155.48,"text":"可以先行離席"},{"start":19155.48,"end":19157.48,"text":"現在休息謝謝"},{"start":23203.64,"end":23205.64,"text":"現在繼續開會"},{"start":23205.64,"end":23210.64,"text":"審查教師法第25條及第53條"},{"start":23210.64,"end":23212.64,"text":"相關修正草案"},{"start":23212.64,"end":23215.64,"text":"請議事人員宣讀條文內容"},{"start":23215.64,"end":23217.64,"text":"並進行討論與協商"},{"start":23217.64,"end":23220.64,"text":"討論時如果有新增修正動議"},{"start":23220.64,"end":23222.64,"text":"請一併宣讀"},{"start":23224.1,"end":23227.1,"text":"討論時請參閱教育部提供的"},{"start":23228,"end":23233,"text":"題彙討論版本書面資料並列入公報記錄"},{"start":23233.67,"end":23234.67,"text":"請宣讀"},{"start":23242.81,"end":23243.81,"text":"教師法"},{"start":23244.47,"end":23247.47,"text":"委員武力法等提案第25條"},{"start":23247.47,"end":23248.47,"text":"第二項及第三項"},{"start":23248.47,"end":23253.47,"text":"默劇據默均甄定及學術研究加緊其餘未修正"},{"start":23253.71,"end":23256.71,"text":"委員馬文清等提案第25條"},{"start":23256.71,"end":23258.71,"text":"第二項及第三項"},{"start":23258.71,"end":23263.71,"text":"默劇據默均甄定及加緊其餘未修正"},{"start":23264.48,"end":23265.98,"text":"委員葉元之等"},{"start":23265.98,"end":23267.98,"text":"委員羅志強等"},{"start":23267.98,"end":23270.98,"text":"委員徐曉欣等提案第25條"},{"start":23270.98,"end":23273.48,"text":"軍同委員馬文君等提案"},{"start":23276.19,"end":23278.69,"text":"委員郭育晴等提案第25條"},{"start":23278.69,"end":23280.69,"text":"同委員吳立華等提案"},{"start":23281.52,"end":23284.52,"text":"委員林憲奇等提案第25條"},{"start":23284.52,"end":23285.52,"text":"第二項"},{"start":23286.48,"end":23291.98,"text":"第二項默劇據默均甄定加緊並恢復考核獎金"},{"start":23291.98,"end":23293.48,"text":"主席宣告"},{"start":23293.48,"end":23298.98,"text":"現在進行教師法第25條及第53條條文修正草案主條審查"},{"start":23298.98,"end":23303.48,"text":"審查時請參照條文對照表及提案關係文書"},{"start":23303.48,"end":23305.48,"text":"第25條條文修正"},{"start":23305.48,"end":23309.48,"text":"有委員吳立華等17人共14個提案"},{"start":23309.48,"end":23312.98,"text":"以及委員陳秀寶等修正動議"},{"start":23318.39,"end":23324.89,"text":"是不是請委員表示意見"},{"start":23325.35,"end":23326.85,"text":"來請秀寶委員"},{"start":23328.36,"end":23329.36,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":23329.36,"end":23332.36,"text":"在第25條這個部分本期提的是修正動議"},{"start":23332.36,"end":23334.36,"text":"那我想其實在今天早上"},{"start":23334.36,"end":23338.36,"text":"很多委員的發言對這一條其實大家都是認同的"},{"start":23338.36,"end":23342.36,"text":"就考量教師在受停聘的期間他是自願"},{"start":23342.36,"end":23344.36,"text":"非自願停職工作"},{"start":23344.36,"end":23346.36,"text":"那所以這個停聘期間結束後"},{"start":23346.36,"end":23350.36,"text":"如果並沒有被解聘或是終局停聘這個處分代表教師"},{"start":23350.36,"end":23352.36,"text":"他並沒有從事相關不法行為"},{"start":23352.36,"end":23356.36,"text":"所以停聘期間的薪水本來就應該要補發"},{"start":23356.86,"end":23360.86,"text":"那這期的條文規定說只補發本薪的部分是有點不合理"},{"start":23360.86,"end":23362.86,"text":"包括學術研究加給的部分"},{"start":23362.86,"end":23370.86,"text":"所以本期提修正動議是來增加補發的薪資"},{"start":23370.86,"end":23374.86,"text":"要加計學術研究加給的部分"},{"start":23374.86,"end":23376.86,"text":"來保障教師的權益"},{"start":23376.86,"end":23377.86,"text":"以上"},{"start":23377.86,"end":23379.86,"text":"好謝謝秀寶委員的意見"},{"start":23379.86,"end":23384.86,"text":"那我們是不是先請所有委員先第一輪發言"},{"start":23385.36,"end":23386.36,"text":"好不好"},{"start":23386.36,"end":23387.36,"text":"可以喔"},{"start":23387.36,"end":23390.36,"text":"那接下來我們請林宜景委員"},{"start":23390.36,"end":23392.36,"text":"接下來蔡村仇委員"},{"start":23393.44,"end":23394.94,"text":"郭育芹委員"},{"start":23396.17,"end":23397.17,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":23397.17,"end":23400.17,"text":"這個這樣本席在上個會期初"},{"start":23400.17,"end":23402.17,"text":"第一次質詢教育部的時候就有提過"},{"start":23402.17,"end":23406.17,"text":"主要是還是校事會議濫訴的狀況太多"},{"start":23406.17,"end":23408.17,"text":"那很多小案大辦的這個問題"},{"start":23408.17,"end":23410.17,"text":"那就在這個期間喔"},{"start":23410.17,"end":23412.17,"text":"那老師被停聘啊被調查"},{"start":23412.17,"end":23414.17,"text":"那有些樣態就是"},{"start":23414.17,"end":23418.17,"text":"這個期間有發給辦事的本薪"},{"start":23418.17,"end":23420.17,"text":"有的是全部都沒有發"},{"start":23420.17,"end":23425.17,"text":"那等這個未受這個解聘或終局停聘的處分"},{"start":23425.17,"end":23429.67,"text":"才回復聘任才補發這個停聘期間的薪資喔"},{"start":23429.67,"end":23431.67,"text":"那主要是補發薪資的部分"},{"start":23431.67,"end":23433.67,"text":"是不是要包含加給"},{"start":23433.67,"end":23436.67,"text":"那目前只發本薪也就是所謂年工薪"},{"start":23436.67,"end":23438.67,"text":"那加給跟獎金都沒有發"},{"start":23438.67,"end":23440.67,"text":"可是老師的薪水結構"},{"start":23440.67,"end":23444.67,"text":"跟一般的公務人員跟我們的都不一樣"},{"start":23444.67,"end":23447.67,"text":"因為他其實本薪只占了其中的一部分"},{"start":23447.67,"end":23450.67,"text":"那絕大部分的差不多四五成"},{"start":23450.67,"end":23453.67,"text":"是所謂的研究"},{"start":23454.51,"end":23456.51,"text":"學術研究加給"},{"start":23456.51,"end":23460.01,"text":"那所以你如果說只給他本奉"},{"start":23460.01,"end":23462.51,"text":"那上面就給他一半薪水而已嘛"},{"start":23462.51,"end":23464.51,"text":"他就已經沒事情了"},{"start":23464.51,"end":23467.01,"text":"所以我說這實在是很不公平"},{"start":23467.01,"end":23469.01,"text":"所以這是薪資結構的不同"},{"start":23469.01,"end":23471.01,"text":"所以大家忽略這一點"},{"start":23471.01,"end":23473.01,"text":"所以應該是就是說"},{"start":23474.65,"end":23477.65,"text":"所以我的草案是寫要補發加給"},{"start":23477.65,"end":23479.65,"text":"當然加給現在包括學術研究加給"},{"start":23479.65,"end":23482.65,"text":"地域加給植物加給等等"},{"start":23482.65,"end":23486.65,"text":"那有些版本是只有強調學術研究加給"},{"start":23486.65,"end":23490.65,"text":"那我覺得這個當然可以在細談討論"},{"start":23490.65,"end":23492.65,"text":"那無論如何啦"},{"start":23492.65,"end":23494.65,"text":"學術研究加給是最重要"},{"start":23494.65,"end":23496.65,"text":"因為他佔比太大四五成"},{"start":23496.65,"end":23500.65,"text":"所以是不是無論如何把學術研究加給"},{"start":23500.65,"end":23502.65,"text":"一定要加進去"},{"start":23503.15,"end":23505.15,"text":"要不要加進去"},{"start":23505.15,"end":23507.15,"text":"這大家可以討論喔"},{"start":23507.15,"end":23509.15,"text":"以上謝謝"},{"start":23517.33,"end":23519.33,"text":"主席大家好"},{"start":23519.33,"end":23524.83,"text":"那台灣民眾黨提案的也是一樣"},{"start":23524.83,"end":23529.33,"text":"我們覺得再回聘回來的老師呢"},{"start":23529.33,"end":23534.33,"text":"我們應該除了之前是只有供奉"},{"start":23534.33,"end":23537.33,"text":"只有就是能供奉"},{"start":23537.33,"end":23539.83,"text":"那我們這裡我們主張"},{"start":23539.83,"end":23542.33,"text":"應該要把學術研究"},{"start":23542.33,"end":23545.33,"text":"學術研究會還有地域加給"},{"start":23545.83,"end":23547.83,"text":"都要納入"},{"start":23547.83,"end":23550.83,"text":"就是要補償給回任的老師"},{"start":23550.83,"end":23552.83,"text":"那這裡呢"},{"start":23552.83,"end":23554.83,"text":"在這個偏領"},{"start":23554.83,"end":23555.83,"text":"地域加給的在這裡"},{"start":23555.83,"end":23557.83,"text":"我做一個說明"},{"start":23557.83,"end":23559.83,"text":"這個就是屬於偏領的"},{"start":23559.83,"end":23560.83,"text":"偏領地區的教師"},{"start":23560.83,"end":23561.83,"text":"那現在目前呢"},{"start":23561.83,"end":23564.83,"text":"我們偏鄉的一個老師呢"},{"start":23564.83,"end":23565.83,"text":"就是教師方"},{"start":23565.83,"end":23568.83,"text":"有很多人也不願意到偏鄉去"},{"start":23568.83,"end":23572.83,"text":"那好不容易有人願意到偏鄉去了"},{"start":23572.83,"end":23575.33,"text":"然後再來就是說"},{"start":23576.54,"end":23578.54,"text":"我們現在就來結束了"},{"start":23578.54,"end":23580.54,"text":"我們今天就來結束了"},{"start":23580.54,"end":23582.54,"text":"我們今天就來結束了"},{"start":23582.54,"end":23584.54,"text":"我們今天就來結束了"},{"start":23584.54,"end":23586.54,"text":"我們今天就來結束了"},{"start":23586.54,"end":23588.54,"text":"我們今天就來結束了"},{"start":23588.54,"end":23590.54,"text":"我們今天就來結束了"},{"start":23590.54,"end":23592.54,"text":"我們今天就來結束了"},{"start":23592.54,"end":23594.54,"text":"我們今天就來結束了"},{"start":23594.54,"end":23596.54,"text":"我們今天就來結束了"},{"start":23596.54,"end":23598.54,"text":"我們今天就來結束了"},{"start":23598.54,"end":23600.54,"text":"我們今天就來結束了"},{"start":23600.54,"end":23602.54,"text":"我們今天就來結束了"},{"start":23602.54,"end":23604.54,"text":"我們今天就來結束了"},{"start":23577.74,"end":23579.74,"text":"目前啊根據統計"},{"start":23579.74,"end":23581.74,"text":"目前有這樣的一個問題"},{"start":23581.74,"end":23583.74,"text":"大概有26個人"},{"start":23583.74,"end":23585.74,"text":"那26個人期間啊"},{"start":23585.74,"end":23587.74,"text":"有幾位是在偏鄉"},{"start":23587.74,"end":23588.74,"text":"也沒有多少人"},{"start":23588.74,"end":23590.74,"text":"那我們要想說"},{"start":23590.74,"end":23592.74,"text":"這些偏鄉的他本身"},{"start":23592.74,"end":23595.74,"text":"在一個很多人不願意去的地方"},{"start":23595.74,"end":23596.74,"text":"第二"},{"start":23596.74,"end":23598.74,"text":"他做這樣的一個調查"},{"start":23598.74,"end":23601.74,"text":"對他本身就是一種尊嚴的傷害"},{"start":23601.74,"end":23603.74,"text":"那既然已經調查完了"},{"start":23603.74,"end":23605.74,"text":"他是沒有這回事"},{"start":23605.74,"end":23607.74,"text":"是受冤枉的"},{"start":23607.74,"end":23609.74,"text":"那他也在偏鄉"},{"start":23609.74,"end":23610.74,"text":"在調查的期間"},{"start":23610.74,"end":23613.24,"text":"我相信他也一定住在那個地方等嘛"},{"start":23613.24,"end":23614.74,"text":"因為要調查嘛"},{"start":23614.74,"end":23616.24,"text":"所以我覺得"},{"start":23616.24,"end":23618.24,"text":"第一家籍呢"},{"start":23618.24,"end":23620.24,"text":"是應該他本來就是薪資的一部分"},{"start":23620.24,"end":23621.74,"text":"我個人認為"},{"start":23621.74,"end":23623.24,"text":"我們台灣民眾黨認為"},{"start":23623.24,"end":23625.74,"text":"這個第一家籍是應該要給的"},{"start":23625.74,"end":23627.74,"text":"所以呢"},{"start":23627.74,"end":23629.74,"text":"我..."},{"start":23629.74,"end":23631.74,"text":"我是覺得這沒有多少錢啊"},{"start":23631.74,"end":23633.74,"text":"這個金會沒有多少錢啊"},{"start":23633.74,"end":23635.74,"text":"因為26個人"},{"start":23635.74,"end":23637.74,"text":"那再扣掉那個偏鄉"},{"start":23637.74,"end":23639.74,"text":"也沒有多少人"},{"start":23639.74,"end":23641.74,"text":"那既然說自尊就受傷了"},{"start":23641.74,"end":23645.74,"text":"何必去計較這幾千塊"},{"start":23645.74,"end":23647.74,"text":"而且也沒有多少人"},{"start":23647.74,"end":23649.74,"text":"這個是我的建議"},{"start":23649.5,"end":23653.5,"text":"好 非常謝謝蔡村雄委員所表示的意見"},{"start":23653.5,"end":23655.5,"text":"那接下來請郭裕晴委員"},{"start":23655.5,"end":23657.5,"text":"那郭裕晴委員發言完之後"},{"start":23657.5,"end":23659.5,"text":"我們請教育部來做回應"},{"start":23659.5,"end":23661.5,"text":"好 那我要強調一下"},{"start":23661.5,"end":23665.5,"text":"這個學術研究家其實跟本薪是一樣的啦"},{"start":23665.5,"end":23667.5,"text":"如果說老師他因為知領"},{"start":23667.5,"end":23669.5,"text":"就是固定的知領這個薪資"},{"start":23669.5,"end":23673.5,"text":"其實他是為了要維持他原本生活的一個"},{"start":23673.5,"end":23675.5,"text":"本來重要的一個核心啦"},{"start":23675.5,"end":23677.5,"text":"那如果說是因為他非自願"},{"start":23677.5,"end":23681.5,"text":"或者是不可歸責於自己的一個室友被停聘"},{"start":23681.5,"end":23683.5,"text":"那最後獲得這個清白要復職"},{"start":23683.5,"end":23685.5,"text":"這個也是我們一直不斷強調"},{"start":23685.5,"end":23689.5,"text":"部長之前也強調就是要恢復這個名譽的部分喔"},{"start":23689.5,"end":23692.5,"text":"那我想如果只發回這個本薪喔"},{"start":23692.5,"end":23694.5,"text":"其實比較不符合這個"},{"start":23694.5,"end":23697.5,"text":"受僱人他們的這個請求報酬的一個精神"},{"start":23697.5,"end":23703.5,"text":"比較難以去維持他們原本的可能家庭的照顧的一些"},{"start":23703.5,"end":23705.5,"text":"基本的一個費用啦"},{"start":23705.5,"end":23709.5,"text":"那尤其是近幾年這個物價又大幅成長的一個狀況之下"},{"start":23709.5,"end":23714.5,"text":"所以我想這個部分就是學術研究家籍的部分"},{"start":23714.5,"end":23717.5,"text":"那我把它寫進去的這個條文當中"},{"start":23717.5,"end":23719.5,"text":"也是主要因為這個原因喔"},{"start":23719.5,"end":23721.5,"text":"好以上"},{"start":23721.29,"end":23723.29,"text":"好"},{"start":23722.57,"end":23724.57,"text":"以上有四位提案委員"},{"start":23724.57,"end":23726.57,"text":"都有表示意見喔"},{"start":23726.57,"end":23728.57,"text":"現在我們就是請教育部"},{"start":23728.57,"end":23730.57,"text":"是不是鄭部長回覆"},{"start":23730.57,"end":23732.57,"text":"還是"},{"start":23735.43,"end":23737.43,"text":"好請人事處處長"},{"start":23737.43,"end":23739.43,"text":"請"},{"start":23739.43,"end":23741.43,"text":"謝謝委員喔"},{"start":23741.43,"end":23743.43,"text":"我們教育部這邊當然就是"},{"start":23743.43,"end":23745.43,"text":"剛剛委員已經說明過"},{"start":23745.43,"end":23747.43,"text":"就是"},{"start":23748.19,"end":23750.19,"text":"原先的規定是"},{"start":23750.19,"end":23752.19,"text":"本薪嘛"},{"start":23752.19,"end":23754.19,"text":"那現在要把學術研究家籍加進來"},{"start":23754.19,"end":23756.19,"text":"那我們是站在一個就是"},{"start":23756.19,"end":23761.19,"text":"給老師每個月經常性的一個固定薪資的一個概念"},{"start":23761.19,"end":23763.19,"text":"就是全新的一個概念在"},{"start":23763.19,"end":23765.19,"text":"看待這樣子的一個條文喔"},{"start":23765.19,"end":23767.19,"text":"那如果按照這樣子"},{"start":23767.19,"end":23773.19,"text":"每個月固定薪的一個結構應該是本薪加學術研究家籍啦"},{"start":23773.19,"end":23775.19,"text":"那所以我們建議的"},{"start":23775.19,"end":23777.19,"text":"建議的文字是"},{"start":23777.19,"end":23779.19,"text":"就是後面加學術研究家籍"},{"start":23779.19,"end":23782.19,"text":"那另外剛剛有委員也提到就是說家籍"},{"start":23782.19,"end":23786.19,"text":"另外可能有職務家籍或者是地域家籍"},{"start":23786.19,"end":23788.19,"text":"那這個都是因為"},{"start":23788.19,"end":23790.19,"text":"身分上"},{"start":23790.19,"end":23792.19,"text":"他可能有監主管職務"},{"start":23792.19,"end":23794.19,"text":"或者是他服務在偏鄉"},{"start":23794.19,"end":23796.19,"text":"所給予的另外其他的家籍"},{"start":23796.19,"end":23798.19,"text":"跟我們"},{"start":23798.19,"end":23800.19,"text":"我們剛剛說明的就是"},{"start":23800.19,"end":23804.19,"text":"每個月老師固定薪資的一個經常性給予"},{"start":23804.19,"end":23807.19,"text":"本質上還是有一些些的不太一樣"},{"start":23807.19,"end":23812.19,"text":"所以我們教育部這邊建議的一個條文是"},{"start":23812.19,"end":23814.19,"text":"本薪加學術研究家籍"},{"start":23814.19,"end":23816.19,"text":"上報告"},{"start":23816.19,"end":23818.19,"text":"謝謝處長的回應喔"},{"start":23818.19,"end":23820.19,"text":"那教育部這邊"},{"start":23820.19,"end":23823.19,"text":"在螢幕上有打出他們的提會版本"},{"start":23823.19,"end":23825.19,"text":"那是不是請各位委員我們就"},{"start":23825.19,"end":23829.19,"text":"依照教育部提供的版本來討論可以嗎"},{"start":23829.68,"end":23831.68,"text":"好那我先念一下"},{"start":23833.91,"end":23838.91,"text":"一第18條第一項或第21條第二款第三款"},{"start":23838.91,"end":23842.91,"text":"停聘之教師停聘期間不發給待遇"},{"start":23842.91,"end":23845.91,"text":"一第21條第一款第22條第一項"},{"start":23845.91,"end":23848.91,"text":"第23條第6項停聘之教師"},{"start":23848.91,"end":23850.91,"text":"於停聘期間不發給待遇"},{"start":23850.91,"end":23852.91,"text":"停聘事由消滅後"},{"start":23852.91,"end":23854.91,"text":"未受解聘或終局停聘處分"},{"start":23854.91,"end":23856.91,"text":"並回復聘認者"},{"start":23856.91,"end":23859.91,"text":"補發其停聘期間全數本薪"},{"start":23859.91,"end":23866.91,"text":"本薪刮鬍年工薪及增加文字及學術研究家籍"},{"start":23866.91,"end":23869.91,"text":"一第22條第二項停聘之教師"},{"start":23869.91,"end":23873.91,"text":"於停聘期間發給半數本薪刮鬍年工薪"},{"start":23873.91,"end":23877.91,"text":"增加文字及學術研究家籍"},{"start":23877.91,"end":23880.91,"text":"調查後未受解聘或終局停聘處分"},{"start":23880.91,"end":23884.91,"text":"並回復聘認者補發其停聘期間"},{"start":23884.91,"end":23894.91,"text":"這邊未發之本薪刮鬍年工薪及學術研究家籍"},{"start":23894.91,"end":23899.91,"text":"看起來早上大家的質詢都滿有共識"},{"start":23902.32,"end":23905.32,"text":"剛才幾位委員的發言也大概往這個方向"},{"start":23905.32,"end":23908.32,"text":"那如果大家同意"},{"start":23909.7,"end":23910.7,"text":"同意嗎"},{"start":23911.7,"end":23912.7,"text":"好"},{"start":23912.77,"end":23913.77,"text":"蔡尊總委員"},{"start":23916.62,"end":23920.62,"text":"我個人還是一樣對這個地域加緊"},{"start":23920.62,"end":23924.62,"text":"我還是要提出看法"},{"start":23924.62,"end":23930.62,"text":"為什麼其實早上我講我們的校園"},{"start":23930.62,"end":23932.62,"text":"其實就是氣候變化"},{"start":23932.62,"end":23936.62,"text":"已經為什麼會有這些問題"},{"start":23937.79,"end":23940.79,"text":"應該就是校事會議的後嘛"},{"start":23940.79,"end":23943.79,"text":"那個第一"},{"start":23944.16,"end":23946.16,"text":"我覺得啦"},{"start":23946.16,"end":23948.16,"text":"我覺得地域這個薪水"},{"start":23948.16,"end":23950.16,"text":"它本來就已經發放了"},{"start":23950.16,"end":23954.16,"text":"它雖然沒有上班"},{"start":23954.16,"end":23956.16,"text":"但是這些薪水還是放在學校"},{"start":23957.37,"end":23959.37,"text":"那還在學校的話"},{"start":23959.37,"end":23960.37,"text":"回復了以後"},{"start":23960.37,"end":23963.37,"text":"這個薪水還還是放在學校的基金裡面"},{"start":23963.37,"end":23964.37,"text":"你就還給他而已嘛"},{"start":23964.37,"end":23966.37,"text":"所以我覺得"},{"start":23966.37,"end":23967.37,"text":"而且呢"},{"start":23967.37,"end":23968.37,"text":"在偏鄉"},{"start":23968.37,"end":23970.37,"text":"他本來就是"},{"start":23970.37,"end":23972.37,"text":"他也在那邊住駕"},{"start":23972.37,"end":23975.37,"text":"已經住在那邊等候檢查嘛"},{"start":23975.37,"end":23978.37,"text":"所以既然也沒有增加"},{"start":23978.37,"end":23981.37,"text":"那本來這個薪水也都在學校裡面"},{"start":23981.37,"end":23983.37,"text":"那為何呢"},{"start":23983.37,"end":23985.37,"text":"我們對他的傷害也很大"},{"start":23985.37,"end":23987.37,"text":"所以說他自己的書年受損"},{"start":23987.37,"end":23989.37,"text":"難道就只有這幾千塊"},{"start":23989.37,"end":23993.37,"text":"或者是說把這個學術研究會的這個錢"},{"start":23993.37,"end":23996.37,"text":"給他之後就能夠彌補他的傷害嗎"},{"start":23996.37,"end":23999.37,"text":"我覺得這個是需要大家再討論一下"},{"start":23999.37,"end":24000.37,"text":"這是我個人"},{"start":24000.37,"end":24002.37,"text":"我覺得應該要"},{"start":24002.37,"end":24004.37,"text":"我認為我要堅持的地方"},{"start":24004.37,"end":24005.37,"text":"好"},{"start":24005.37,"end":24007.37,"text":"那蔡村守委員這邊"},{"start":24007.37,"end":24009.37,"text":"有特別提到"},{"start":24009.37,"end":24012.37,"text":"他希望把這個地域加級放回去"},{"start":24012.37,"end":24014.37,"text":"即便沒有上班"},{"start":24015.17,"end":24017.17,"text":"就是還是希望把地域加級加回去"},{"start":24017.17,"end":24021.17,"text":"那這個部分是不是還是請教育部人事處長"},{"start":24021.17,"end":24022.17,"text":"來請"},{"start":24024.6,"end":24028.6,"text":"謝謝委員剛剛的那個說明"},{"start":24028.6,"end":24031.6,"text":"那我這邊還是要強調一下"},{"start":24031.6,"end":24036.6,"text":"就是這個條文其實是適用每一個教師"},{"start":24036.6,"end":24040.6,"text":"那剛剛委員所提到的地域加級這個部分"},{"start":24040.6,"end":24046.6,"text":"其實是有在偏鄉或者是離島服務的教師才會發給"},{"start":24046.6,"end":24051.6,"text":"並不是所有的老師他的薪資必然的有這樣子"},{"start":24051.6,"end":24054.6,"text":"必然有的是本薪加學術研究價值"},{"start":24054.6,"end":24057.6,"text":"這是每一位老師都有的"},{"start":24057.6,"end":24061.6,"text":"那地域加級跟剛剛也有提到的主管資助價值"},{"start":24061.6,"end":24062.6,"text":"都是一樣的性質"},{"start":24062.6,"end":24066.6,"text":"所以在這個條文裡面我們才會去講說"},{"start":24066.6,"end":24069.6,"text":"你被冤枉後來負責的話"},{"start":24069.6,"end":24075.6,"text":"應該是去回覆他這兩項的一個薪資結構"},{"start":24075.6,"end":24079.6,"text":"所以我們建議還是維持學術研究加級"},{"start":24081.57,"end":24083.57,"text":"就可以了大概是這樣"},{"start":24083.57,"end":24086.57,"text":"蔡司司長委員那個意思就是說"},{"start":24086.57,"end":24091.57,"text":"如果把因為我們還有其他的教師待遇條例考核辦法等等"},{"start":24091.57,"end":24092.57,"text":"有其他的法令"},{"start":24092.57,"end":24097.57,"text":"那如果說在這個地方把它寫進這個文字"},{"start":24097.57,"end":24102.57,"text":"它就會破壞那個就是奇異性的部分"},{"start":24102.57,"end":24106.57,"text":"因為這種特殊的部分有在其他的法條裡面規定"},{"start":24112.53,"end":24114.53,"text":"那其他委員有沒有什麼意見"},{"start":24119.74,"end":24121.74,"text":"那李怡君委員"},{"start":24122.2,"end":24124.2,"text":"先等蔡村首委"},{"start":24131.3,"end":24133.3,"text":"來請蔡村首委員"},{"start":24135.52,"end":24137.52,"text":"我又表達了啦"},{"start":24137.52,"end":24141.52,"text":"我是覺得應該是因為沒有增加"},{"start":24141.52,"end":24144.52,"text":"這些薪水本來就放在學校的基金裡面"},{"start":24144.52,"end":24145.52,"text":"你也沒有增加"},{"start":24146.81,"end":24147.31,"text":"他"},{"start":24148.34,"end":24151.34,"text":"我是覺得我們要鼓勵"},{"start":24151.34,"end":24154.34,"text":"鼓勵就是說有人願意到偏鄉去"},{"start":24154.34,"end":24158.34,"text":"那我們這些老師本來就是不容易"},{"start":24158.34,"end":24159.34,"text":"然後呢"},{"start":24159.34,"end":24161.34,"text":"我個人是這樣子"},{"start":24161.34,"end":24163.34,"text":"我是覺得希望"},{"start":24163.34,"end":24166.34,"text":"我希望能夠把這個偏鄉"},{"start":24166.34,"end":24168.34,"text":"我講的也沒有幾個人"},{"start":24168.34,"end":24170.34,"text":"然後這也是特殊對象"},{"start":24170.34,"end":24172.34,"text":"還是可以考慮看看"},{"start":24172.34,"end":24174.34,"text":"有理解"},{"start":24174.34,"end":24176.34,"text":"因為真的是名譽"},{"start":24176.34,"end":24178.34,"text":"無法用金錢回覆"},{"start":24178.34,"end":24181.34,"text":"那如果可以的話當然是很好"},{"start":24181.34,"end":24184.34,"text":"我們只是怕體力上文字"},{"start":24184.34,"end":24186.34,"text":"不知道會不會跟其他的法令"},{"start":24186.34,"end":24188.34,"text":"那這裡可以稍微修一下"},{"start":24188.34,"end":24191.34,"text":"只是針對一些偏鄉的特殊的一些人"},{"start":24191.34,"end":24193.34,"text":"而且也不多"},{"start":24193.34,"end":24194.34,"text":"而且也不多"},{"start":24195.85,"end":24198.85,"text":"我是希望教育部能夠再寫三看看"},{"start":24198.85,"end":24199.85,"text":"因為"},{"start":24199.85,"end":24201.85,"text":"請林益景委員"},{"start":24201.85,"end":24203.85,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":24203.85,"end":24205.85,"text":"其實我某程度是非常支持"},{"start":24205.85,"end":24207.85,"text":"就覺得說這個老師"},{"start":24207.85,"end":24210.85,"text":"在這個調查的期間"},{"start":24210.85,"end":24212.85,"text":"他是停聘的狀態"},{"start":24212.85,"end":24215.85,"text":"既然這個還給他清白的時候"},{"start":24215.85,"end":24218.85,"text":"其實他原本的薪水就應該給他"},{"start":24218.85,"end":24220.85,"text":"可是現在卡在說"},{"start":24220.85,"end":24221.85,"text":"停止的時候"},{"start":24221.85,"end":24223.85,"text":"其實一定有人代理他的"},{"start":24223.85,"end":24224.85,"text":"代理他的資本"},{"start":24224.85,"end":24226.85,"text":"所以他這個所謂的這個"},{"start":24226.85,"end":24228.85,"text":"這個地域加急"},{"start":24228.85,"end":24231.85,"text":"代理他的資本應該拿走了"},{"start":24232.52,"end":24234.52,"text":"所以我的意思是說"},{"start":24234.52,"end":24237.52,"text":"如果這樣的話你就會加倍付出"},{"start":24237.52,"end":24239.52,"text":"所以從這個形象系統來看"},{"start":24239.52,"end":24241.52,"text":"應該就是說"},{"start":24243.89,"end":24246.89,"text":"就是他的學術研究加急"},{"start":24246.89,"end":24248.89,"text":"這是最大條的"},{"start":24248.89,"end":24250.89,"text":"這就是他的本分的一部分"},{"start":24250.89,"end":24252.89,"text":"人家說我們一般人的薪水"},{"start":24252.89,"end":24254.89,"text":"就是他的薪水本分跟學術原價計"},{"start":24254.89,"end":24256.89,"text":"這條就叫薪水"},{"start":24256.89,"end":24258.89,"text":"所以這個薪水都給他"},{"start":24258.89,"end":24261.89,"text":"像是那個甲的那個電鐵的概念"},{"start":24261.89,"end":24264.89,"text":"電鐵你沒吃"},{"start":24264.89,"end":24266.89,"text":"你放天津"},{"start":24266.89,"end":24267.89,"text":"你沒吃頭顱"},{"start":24267.89,"end":24269.89,"text":"所以你沒做工作"},{"start":24269.89,"end":24270.89,"text":"應該這樣說"},{"start":24270.89,"end":24272.89,"text":"你應該就不用去電鐵"},{"start":24272.89,"end":24274.89,"text":"我是這樣想"},{"start":24274.89,"end":24275.89,"text":"所以就是說"},{"start":24275.89,"end":24277.89,"text":"我們的原意其實就是"},{"start":24277.89,"end":24278.89,"text":"原本的薪水"},{"start":24278.89,"end":24280.89,"text":"他該領的薪水要給人家"},{"start":24280.89,"end":24283.89,"text":"所以我覺得如果可以的話"},{"start":24283.89,"end":24284.89,"text":"因為大家有共識"},{"start":24284.89,"end":24286.89,"text":"只差在這一咪咪"},{"start":24286.89,"end":24288.89,"text":"這個好不容易"},{"start":24288.89,"end":24290.89,"text":"我們也都拗到下午"},{"start":24291.27,"end":24293.27,"text":"然後大家都那麼辛苦"},{"start":24293.27,"end":24295.27,"text":"三次一次會"},{"start":24295.27,"end":24298.27,"text":"而且這個學術研究加急"},{"start":24298.27,"end":24300.27,"text":"這個是大家如果有共識"},{"start":24300.27,"end":24301.27,"text":"這是最好的"},{"start":24301.27,"end":24303.27,"text":"就真的幫了真的"},{"start":24303.27,"end":24305.27,"text":"這些被調查的老師們"},{"start":24305.27,"end":24308.27,"text":"所以再請蔡委員拜託啦"},{"start":24308.27,"end":24310.27,"text":"不過我在這邊也是要補充"},{"start":24310.27,"end":24313.27,"text":"因為從校事會議被討論"},{"start":24313.27,"end":24317.27,"text":"各個委員輪番上陣質詢"},{"start":24317.27,"end":24320.27,"text":"然後不斷的要求給予全心"},{"start":24320.27,"end":24323.27,"text":"那也很感謝部長在質詢台上"},{"start":24323.27,"end":24326.27,"text":"總是說他個人相當支持"},{"start":24326.27,"end":24328.27,"text":"所以呢就啟動了這個修法"},{"start":24328.27,"end":24331.27,"text":"也看到這麼多的委員"},{"start":24331.27,"end":24333.27,"text":"都把版本提出來"},{"start":24333.27,"end":24335.27,"text":"如果我們可以順利通過"},{"start":24335.27,"end":24338.27,"text":"接下來我們就要請司法委員會"},{"start":24338.27,"end":24341.27,"text":"排教師待遇條例的修法"},{"start":24341.27,"end":24343.27,"text":"因為這個兩個都要連動修"},{"start":24343.27,"end":24345.27,"text":"所以如果這邊快"},{"start":24345.27,"end":24348.27,"text":"那邊也可以順利進行"},{"start":24348.27,"end":24350.27,"text":"應該我們這個會期"},{"start":24350.27,"end":24353.27,"text":"我們就可以完成處理這個三讀"},{"start":24353.27,"end":24356.27,"text":"所以可以讓老師早一點"},{"start":24356.27,"end":24358.27,"text":"可以如果有遇到這樣的狀況"},{"start":24358.27,"end":24360.27,"text":"讓他們可以安心"},{"start":24360.27,"end":24362.27,"text":"還有沒有其他意見"},{"start":24362.67,"end":24364.67,"text":"好那謝謝各位委員"},{"start":24364.67,"end":24366.67,"text":"順利達成共識"},{"start":24366.67,"end":24369.67,"text":"我們是不是就照這個"},{"start":24369.67,"end":24371.67,"text":"還沒有"},{"start":24371.67,"end":24373.67,"text":"好來"},{"start":24374.05,"end":24377.05,"text":"那個當然謝謝前輩"},{"start":24377.05,"end":24380.05,"text":"那我個人當然我也不要說"},{"start":24380.05,"end":24381.05,"text":"我一直在阻擋這個"},{"start":24381.05,"end":24383.05,"text":"但是我還是要強烈表達"},{"start":24383.05,"end":24385.05,"text":"我個人的意願就是"},{"start":24385.05,"end":24387.05,"text":"比較希望就是能那個定義加急"},{"start":24387.05,"end":24391.05,"text":"那如果說大家都要做一個協商"},{"start":24391.05,"end":24392.05,"text":"最後的一個決定"},{"start":24392.05,"end":24393.05,"text":"我當然尊重"},{"start":24393.05,"end":24396.05,"text":"但是我提的不是最苛刻"},{"start":24396.05,"end":24397.05,"text":"不是最那個還有人"},{"start":24397.05,"end":24398.05,"text":"就是要全部都要"},{"start":24398.05,"end":24400.05,"text":"都必須要補償"},{"start":24400.05,"end":24403.05,"text":"那剛剛我們前輩講的就是說"},{"start":24403.05,"end":24405.05,"text":"他是偏鄉"},{"start":24405.05,"end":24409.05,"text":"但是我想這個是短期的一個代理"},{"start":24409.05,"end":24412.05,"text":"有時候就是在地人來兼的"},{"start":24412.05,"end":24413.05,"text":"那這一個偏鄉的老師"},{"start":24413.05,"end":24415.05,"text":"S是外地進來的"},{"start":24415.05,"end":24418.05,"text":"所以我是覺得如果以情理來講"},{"start":24418.05,"end":24421.05,"text":"我這樣提出也沒有什麼苛刻"},{"start":24421.05,"end":24424.05,"text":"我們純粹是為老師"},{"start":24424.05,"end":24429.05,"text":"尊嚴都受傷了這麼嚴重了"},{"start":24429.05,"end":24432.05,"text":"補了那個一點點也補償不了"},{"start":24432.05,"end":24433.05,"text":"那當然了"},{"start":24433.05,"end":24435.05,"text":"我們還是尊重教育部來做一個協商"},{"start":24435.05,"end":24439.05,"text":"那是我個人的意見是比較希望這樣子"},{"start":24439.05,"end":24442.05,"text":"能夠對於定義加急能夠考慮這樣"},{"start":24442.05,"end":24445.05,"text":"那個市政委員你不用擔心"},{"start":24445.05,"end":24446.05,"text":"你絕對沒有苛刻"},{"start":24446.05,"end":24448.05,"text":"因為其實如果可以的話"},{"start":24448.05,"end":24450.05,"text":"大家都覺得應該要全部回復"},{"start":24450.05,"end":24453.05,"text":"只是因為在法令上"},{"start":24453.05,"end":24456.05,"text":"可能有一些沒有辦法這樣處理"},{"start":24456.05,"end":24457.05,"text":"謝謝你的體諒"},{"start":24457.05,"end":24459.05,"text":"也謝謝大家達成共識"},{"start":24459.05,"end":24460.05,"text":"那我們第25條"},{"start":24460.05,"end":24463.05,"text":"第25條就修正通過好嗎"},{"start":24463.05,"end":24464.05,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":24464.05,"end":24468.05,"text":"那下一個53條比較單純"},{"start":24468.05,"end":24471.05,"text":"因為好像只有"},{"start":24471.99,"end":24474.99,"text":"只有民眾黨黨團有那個"},{"start":24474.99,"end":24477.99,"text":"那是不是請大家看一下第53條"},{"start":24477.99,"end":24478.99,"text":"那我們"},{"start":24481.47,"end":24482.47,"text":"看一下一晶螢幕"},{"start":24483.68,"end":24484.68,"text":"好"},{"start":24484.76,"end":24486.76,"text":"一晶螢幕第53條"},{"start":24486.76,"end":24490.76,"text":"本法施行日期由行政院定之"},{"start":24490.76,"end":24493.76,"text":"那增加的這個修正文字是"},{"start":24493.76,"end":24498.76,"text":"本法修正條文字公布日施行"},{"start":24498.76,"end":24500.76,"text":"請各委員發表意見"},{"start":24505.08,"end":24507.08,"text":"聽完委員說明"},{"start":24508.88,"end":24510.88,"text":"我們這個通過之後就可以試用"},{"start":24510.88,"end":24511.88,"text":"這樣子"},{"start":24511.88,"end":24514.88,"text":"好那人事處教育部"},{"start":24516.17,"end":24517.17,"text":"同意嗎"},{"start":24517.17,"end":24520.17,"text":"好那我們第53條"},{"start":24520.17,"end":24523.17,"text":"照台灣民眾黨黨團提案通過"},{"start":24524.35,"end":24526.35,"text":"好"},{"start":24526.35,"end":24527.35,"text":"30一次會"},{"start":24529.68,"end":24530.68,"text":"好的"},{"start":24532.45,"end":24533.45,"text":"哈哈"},{"start":24533.9,"end":24535.9,"text":"啊啊今天的"},{"start":24537.08,"end":24538.08,"text":"怎麼"},{"start":24539.27,"end":24542.27,"text":"今天的審查結果免於重複宣讀"},{"start":24542.27,"end":24546.27,"text":"在不影響條文議前文藝前提下"},{"start":24546.27,"end":24549.27,"text":"文字條字及標點符號"},{"start":24549.27,"end":24554.27,"text":"為統一體力授權議事人員整理列入記錄"},{"start":24555.62,"end":24557.62,"text":"關於本次會議做如下決議"},{"start":24557.62,"end":24559.62,"text":"報告及詢答完畢"},{"start":24559.62,"end":24562.62,"text":"委員所提書面資料或相關資料"},{"start":24562.62,"end":24564.62,"text":"均列入記錄刊登公報"},{"start":24564.62,"end":24566.62,"text":"對於委員質詢時"},{"start":24566.62,"end":24569.62,"text":"要求提供的相關資料或未及答覆部分"},{"start":24569.62,"end":24572.62,"text":"請相關機關競訴以書面答覆"},{"start":24572.62,"end":24577.62,"text":"教師法第25條及第53條相關修正草案"},{"start":24577.62,"end":24581.62,"text":"已全部審查完卻並按擬據審查報告"},{"start":24581.62,"end":24583.62,"text":"提請院會公決"},{"start":24583.62,"end":24586.62,"text":"請問是否需教黨團協商"},{"start":24589.05,"end":24590.05,"text":"不要"},{"start":24590.05,"end":24591.05,"text":"加油黨"},{"start":24591.05,"end":24592.05,"text":"不"},{"start":24592.05,"end":24593.05,"text":"報告委員會"},{"start":24594.15,"end":24595.15,"text":"好"},{"start":24595.15,"end":24596.15,"text":"今日議程"},{"start":24596.15,"end":24598.15,"text":"有剛剛說不需不用"},{"start":24598.94,"end":24599.94,"text":"我要才是"},{"start":24599.94,"end":24600.94,"text":"好"},{"start":24600.94,"end":24602.94,"text":"不需交由黨團協商"},{"start":24602.94,"end":24604.94,"text":"院會討論時"},{"start":24604.94,"end":24607.94,"text":"由五兆級委員立法補充說明"},{"start":24607.94,"end":24608.94,"text":"報告委員會"},{"start":24608.94,"end":24610.94,"text":"今日議程處理完畢"},{"start":24610.94,"end":24612.94,"text":"現在散會"},{"start":24612.94,"end":24613.94,"text":"大家辛苦了"},{"start":24614.94,"end":24615.94,"text":"有效力"},{"start":24616.52,"end":24617.52,"text":"是不是"},{"start":24617.52,"end":24620.52,"text":"因為出委員會我們是不是合照"},{"start":24620.52,"end":24622.52,"text":"合照"},{"start":24626.83,"end":24627.83,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":24627.83,"end":24628.83,"text":"不會"},{"start":24628.83,"end":24629.83,"text":"謝謝你"},{"start":24629.83,"end":24630.83,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":24641.19,"end":24642.19,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":24642.68,"end":24644.68,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":24647.1,"end":24648.1,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":24649.24,"end":24650.24,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":24650.24,"end":24651.24,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":24651.83,"end":24653.83,"text":"來大家先看這台"},{"start":24653.83,"end":24654.83,"text":"先等一下"},{"start":24655.57,"end":24656.57,"text":"來"},{"start":24656.57,"end":24657.57,"text":"來"},{"start":24657.57,"end":24658.57,"text":"來"},{"start":24658.57,"end":24659.57,"text":"來"},{"start":24659.57,"end":24660.57,"text":"來"},{"start":24660.57,"end":24661.57,"text":"來"},{"start":24661.57,"end":24662.57,"text":"來"},{"start":24662.57,"end":24663.57,"text":"來"},{"start":24663.57,"end":24664.57,"text":"來"},{"start":24664.57,"end":24665.57,"text":"來"},{"start":24665.57,"end":24666.57,"text":"來"},{"start":24666.57,"end":24667.57,"text":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