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宣讀完畢好 請問各位委員 上次會議議事錄有沒有錯誤或遺漏的地方好 議事錄確定"},{"start":1796.004,"end":1821.14,"text":"这次会议的议程有两个第一个邀请教育部部长郑英耀列席报告业务概况并被质询第二个部分审查委员武力华、塞贝克、达霍夫扎克等17人拟据教师法第25条条文修正草案等14案首先我们先来介绍在场的委员"},{"start":1822.861,"end":1839.764,"text":"好 第一位委員是羅志強委員 謝謝第二位委員 蔡春綢委員第三位委員 葛如君委員第四位委員 林怡瑾委員"},{"start":1843.277,"end":1861.77,"text":"謝謝各位委員接著我們來介紹與會的官員因為今天是第一次做業務報告所以我們全部都一起並介紹首先來介紹教育部部長鄭英耀政務次長張廖萬堅政務次長劉國偉常務次長朱俊彰"},{"start":1872.862,"end":1901.53,"text":"綜合規劃司司長陳素燕高教師廖高賢司長技職司楊玉慧司長中生司梁學正司長國際教育司李玉娟司長詩意司吳小霞司長資訊科技司葉家宏司長"},{"start":1904.472,"end":1918.861,"text":"學生事務特殊教育司許家倩司長秘書處杜國正處長人事處林建章處長政風處邱蒼林處長會計處劉家偉處長統計處田玉霞處長法治處汪康定副處長"},{"start":1932.353,"end":1960.196,"text":"私校退府儲蓄監理會賴俊能執行秘書國遣署彭副原署長清發署陳雪玉署長國教院林從一院長行政院人事總處給予福利處曾益群副處長全序部林戴帆專門委員"},{"start":1962.409,"end":1962.749,"text":"好 以上 謝謝"},{"start":1989.574,"end":2008,"text":"那我們現在要來做提案說明因為今天我們有安排教師法的第25條那我們這邊就依委員到場的先後順序來安排那第一位我們先請台灣民眾黨黨團的代表蔡春籌委員請主席"},{"start":2019.404,"end":2035.323,"text":"各位同仁大家好依據教師法第25條現行規定教師若因案停聘事後後判回復復任依法只能補發本薪"},{"start":2037.042,"end":2052.151,"text":"但我們都知道學術研究家級以及地域家級都是屬於教師待遇條例法定家級的項目為教師薪級的一部分"},{"start":2052.811,"end":2059.216,"text":"如果只補花本心等於讓恢復聘任的教師平白承受經濟懲罰非常的不公平因此本席代表台灣民眾黨黨團提出兩項修法第一修正第25條明定"},{"start":2072.525,"end":2093.055,"text":"為受處分而恢復互認的教師除本心外必須一併補發停聘期間的學術研究加級以及地域加級同時增訂過度條款讓目前尚未結案的停聘事件也能夠一體適用不讓教師"},{"start":2099.066,"end":2117.517,"text":"第二 修正第53條 明訂本次修正條文至公布日實行 跳過等待的一個空窗期即時保障教師權益 落實程序正義 完整保障教師合法的權益"},{"start":2119.559,"end":2146.539,"text":"本席身為退休教師深知教師是百人素人的一個責任跟辛勞要有幸福的教師才會有幸福的學生對於提升學校教育還有學生受教品質教師權益的提議本席都敬表尊重跟支持請各位委員教育部共同支持本案謝謝"},{"start":2149.165,"end":2160.678,"text":"謝謝蔡春雄委員的提案發言那接下來是羅志強委員待會依序是葛如君委員林倩琪委員林怡瑾委員葉元芝委員請羅志強委員"},{"start":2166.825,"end":2187.44,"text":"主席大家早安台灣這幾年不只是面臨少子化事實上我們的教育現場也出現了教師荒那承載教育親子溝通跟培育下一世代的重責大人在教師身上事實上我最近就是有開始一一拜訪我選區裡的學校"},{"start":2189.264,"end":2208.283,"text":"每一個校長跟我講的第一件事情都是教師荒這一次我們來討論有關於教師待遇條例的部分本席提出的草案就是要回復跟維護我們復聘教師的薪資權益"},{"start":2210.405,"end":2238.484,"text":"教師待遇條例第二條明定教師之待遇分本薪加給跟獎金那薪給是指本薪與加給合計之給予那且於該法中第六條另有明定教師之薪給以月計之並按月給付因此可以得知教師之薪給因為經常性的薪資為待遇的一部分與執行職務之津貼有所差別"},{"start":2239.184,"end":2253.683,"text":"但是現在的教師法25條針對配合接受調查而受暫時停聘的教師調查後未受解聘或停聘處分並回復聘任者代表因案暫停"},{"start":2255.265,"end":2272.624,"text":"停聘的教師並無不適應的情形如果只補發本心 而非經常性的心急那在校園爛樹的情況惡意日益惡化的情況之下那對副職教師來講的話其實是很不公平的"},{"start":2273.124,"end":2293.803,"text":"所以雖然停聘期間教師沒有教學的事實但是並非教師拒絕或怠惰教學的產生的所以責任不應該有教師負擔因此我們認為現行法規顯然有違公平正義希望透過這次修法能夠真正保障教師合理的薪資權益以上 謝謝"},{"start":2296.378,"end":2303.131,"text":"好謝謝羅志強委員的提案說明接下來有請葛如君委員下一位林倩琪委員"},{"start":2310.407,"end":2324.743,"text":"主席各位在場的立委同仁夜席的官員以及媒體朋友大家早安首先感謝趙偉我們今天安排這個教師法第25條的巡大以及審查本席過去也是教師那現在呢也持續的"},{"start":2325.384,"end":2341.887,"text":"希望能够跟教育界有更多的连结本席提出教师法第25条修正案一方面是在处理教师在停聘期间的待遇问题但另外一方面它更关系到我们如何用一个更公平的制度留住愿意投入教育现场的人才"},{"start":2342.688,"end":2367.785,"text":"那根据教育部在2025年开学前的统计全国3303所公立国中小一度有高达1429名的代理教师缺儿即使到了8月底仍然还有412名的缺儿没有补齐甚至有学校公开甄选教师超过40次直到开学了还找不到人而且缺儿的问题还不只出现在偏乡连台北"},{"start":2368.385,"end":2386.656,"text":"高雄桃园这些都会区都一样面临招募困难的情况这代表我们的教育体制啊必须要通盘的检讨改善首先要做的就是如何挽留第一线教师的师资还有教育的人才那目前一线教师所感受到的必须要讲"},{"start":2387.136,"end":2415.712,"text":"是越来越不友善的教学环境所有的一线教师不仅承担了高压高风险的工作条件结果在制度上竟然还得不到应有的保障现行的教师待遇条例第二条就明文规定教师待遇是由本薪加给以及奖金所组成同法第四条也明定教师的薪给本来就是本薪加上加给而且应按月给付"},{"start":2416.452,"end":2442.13,"text":"換句話說對於教師來講加給不是時有時無的獎勵而是教師們法定薪資待遇的一部分那現行的教師法第25條規定教師如果因為調查而被停聘最後證明沒有被解聘沒有被終局停聘而回復聘任目前只能補發停聘期間的本薪或者年工薪"},{"start":2442.91,"end":2469.088,"text":"教师待遇条例第19条也是采用相同的做法只补发了本心没有把加急给纳入这就产生一个明显不公平的现象明明最后证明了教师是没有问题的不是可规则的一方却还是要由教师自行承受停聘薪期间的部分薪资的损失这对于学校与教师之间的风险"},{"start":2470.309,"end":2485.798,"text":"還有損失明顯的不平等本席要強調今天有12個不分黨派的提案版本顯見是為教師要來爭取應有的薪資待遇是跨黨派的共識那我們要求的就是如果最後證明教師是被停聘"},{"start":2487.379,"end":2514.74,"text":"证明教师被解聘没有被终局停聘那么制度就应该要完整的去回复这位教师的薪资权益因为一个法治的社会不能让无可规则的人在程序走完以后还要继续为制度的成本买单我想最后本席要再次强调今天审查教师法第25条的修法不是只为了老师个人权益的问题整体来说还是要为了维持整个教育体系的稳定"},{"start":2515.541,"end":2542.432,"text":"今天年輕人為什麼不願意進入教育的現場除了工作的壓力行政負擔很重以外還有一個很重要的原因就這份工作到底有沒有辦法提供給他們人性的制度友善的保障如果一個制度連最基本的待遇回覆都做不到連最基本的符合法律條文的待遇回覆都做不到的話那我們要如何能夠邀請優秀的人才長期投入教職"},{"start":2543.152,"end":2566.97,"text":"我们本来就应该要用更合理的制度让真正愿意教学愿意陪伴孩子成长的教师感受到国家制度真正的友善地方跟他们站在一起让制度也有正义让教师也有尊严让学校也留作助人最后真正受益的还是我们的孩子跟下一代这是本席提出教师法第25条修正草案最重要的原因恳请大家一起支持谢谢"},{"start":2567.771,"end":2574.869,"text":"好谢谢葛如君委员接下来有请林倩琪委员做提案说明下一位林一锦委员"},{"start":2585.342,"end":2606.801,"text":"主席媒体朋友还有我们福利图人大家早安大家好那本席过去在大学担任专任的教师那么在中小学的这个教育现场也多所接触在这个工作上呢立法院的工作上也有许多的这个教师还有学校反映目前教学的一个状况"},{"start":2607.661,"end":2627.967,"text":"所以我們在維持整個教育現場的一個穩定的情況下本席在今天針對教師法的第25條來提出修正主要的目的是在對於現行的制度對教師停聘期間權益保障不足的這個問題然後回復制度應有的公平性"},{"start":2628.627,"end":2647.324,"text":"那么现行的规定教师在接受调查而遭停聘的期间可能不发给待遇或仅发给半数然后当调查结果确认未受解聘或者是终局停聘的一个处分的时候来恢复聘任"},{"start":2647.864,"end":2670.127,"text":"可是只有補發本薪但是教師的薪資結構不是只有本薪我想這個大家都很清楚還包括學術研究加給跟職務的加給然後也會進一步來影響考核獎金年終獎金及兼任行政職務的休假等相關的權益那在過程當中可能都沒有辦法被考量進去"},{"start":2670.988,"end":2685.555,"text":"所以換言之呢即使教師最終沒有受到任何的實體的處分那我們教師仍然必須要自己承擔停聘期間所產生的各項薪資與附隨權益的損失那這樣子的制度安排顯然權益"},{"start":2686.495,"end":2707.96,"text":"在这个平衡的原则下是不服的所以教师在停聘期间没有办法提供劳务不可归咎于教师本人那依民法的一个相关规定在不可归咎于受雇人之情形下人应该保障其报酬请求权因此在确认教师无需受处分并恢复"},{"start":2708.7,"end":2723.095,"text":"聘任之後呢那理應要回復至未停聘前之完整權益的一個狀態那本次的修法來明定教師於停聘後經確認未受處分者除了應該要補發本薪以外"},{"start":2724.056,"end":2746.625,"text":"而且要補發加給並恢復考核獎金年終獎金以及相關休假等權益事項使整體的一個勞動條件得以完整回復那麼本案的一個提案呢最主要是針對來回應制度性風險不應該由個人來承擔基本原則所以敬請各位委員來支持本案以上謝謝"},{"start":2747.805,"end":2757.024,"text":"好谢谢林倩琪委员接下来我们请林一金委员做提案说明下一位业员之委员林一金委员请"},{"start":2763.613,"end":2781.695,"text":"謝主席各位同仁我想大家今天感謝教委來安排教師法的修正本席這次提出教師法25條修正草案主要源自於讓很多老師教苦連天的校園爛樹現象"},{"start":2783.797,"end":2790.623,"text":"那從前年解聘辦法修正後在一年間校士會議的投訴案件高達1372件有超過八成的案件有受理那根據調查資料當時已經完成調查的769件當中不成立的案件有382件 佔比49.7%"},{"start":2810.22,"end":2834.816,"text":"那達到停解聘的只有3.3%那雖然校士會議的主要用意是要處理不適應老師的停解聘的事宜但卻演變成這個小案大辦的現象那教會部發現這個爛訴現象後有著手修改這個校士會議的相關規定那教師的這個停聘接受調查那事後如果這個"},{"start":2836.617,"end":2860.498,"text":"結果判定責任不歸屬教師那也應該有所謂的冤案補償那因此本席提出這個教師法第25條的修正案就是對於教師停聘是由消滅或調查後未受解聘或終局停聘的處分並回復聘任者除了現行規定補發本席以外也應該要補發家籍"},{"start":2863.18,"end":2877.589,"text":"教師的待遇分為本薪、家籍及獎金家籍又分成職務家籍、學術研究家籍、地域家籍所以如果老師被停聘接受調查調查結果責任不歸屬老師的時候"},{"start":2880.891,"end":2894.647,"text":"沒有給老師補發這段時間的這個加給那等於就是補發了半薪而已那加上停職是屬於非自願的停職工作所以經調查後如果沒有受不利的處分"},{"start":2896.188,"end":2914.664,"text":"來就應該要補發教師原來他應該得到的薪資所以本席認為教育部應該要和老師跟學校的團體充分來討論這個補發的範圍我想最低的限度一定是要把學術研究加急"},{"start":2915.785,"end":2944.117,"text":"補發給老師因為學術研究佳績是老師教學研究工作本來就有的佳績這屬於固定心思的一部分所以我們逐條討論的時候我就還要再請教育部再來做詳細的評估跟說明那可以做到怎樣的程度當然最大的重點就是務必要讓受到冤屈的老師們得到合理的補償制度以上敬請支持 謝謝主席"},{"start":2945.817,"end":2953.939,"text":"謝謝林益謹委員接下來請葉元芝委員做提案說明最後一位張雅琳委員葉元芝委員請大家都知道現在教室荒非常嚴重不是說代理老師非常難找有的學校的40幾招50幾招都找不到代理老師那現在狀況是正式老師考上了都不報到那所以到底為什麼會面臨這個"},{"start":2979.635,"end":3005.615,"text":"為什麼面臨這個狀況其實有非常多的研究指出就是因為現在老師的教學環境非常不友善第一個老師被迫做非常多跟教學無關的行政工作所以大家一直在呼籲要做行政減量但是依然各部會各個公家機關還是會要求老師做非常多跟教學無關的宣導然後還包括要辦非常多的公文然後做各式各樣的評鑑"},{"start":3006.776,"end":3032.948,"text":"所以讓他們產生了非常大的跟教學無關的壓力第二個就是濫訴的情況之前因為校事會議引爆很大的風波其實大家都有發現校事會議的召開其實很多時候老師最後都是是被不賴的而且並沒有人家指控的這樣可是他卻進入了漫長的調查期大概最長可以調查四個月"},{"start":3033.988,"end":3062.647,"text":"然後最新的一項調查指出親子殿下做的他說現在近六成的教師五年內想要離職更可怕的是呢這些教師呢他超過六成是不支持他的下一代投入老師的行業而且他也不希望學生繼續當老師換言之這個教師的環境現在是處於一種急劇惡化的這個螺旋當中所以希望教育部各方"},{"start":3064.188,"end":3092.857,"text":"擺散讓老師覺得做老師是值得被尊重是有榮譽感的然後還有一項調查指出啊 他說95.8%的老師他即使覺得自己是秉持著教育專業但是還是擔心被誤解被隨便的控訴然後認為呢 校園現在存在一種多做多做少做少錯的氛圍"},{"start":3099.005,"end":3123.059,"text":"其實受害的是學生所以其實真正受害的是學生因為學生們也沒有辦法得到一個好的教學所以這個問題是急需解決的那我們今天所討論的教師法第25條它只是環老師一個最起碼的公道而已"},{"start":3123.519,"end":3144.292,"text":"因為如果這些老師他被他被隨便投訴投訴之後進入調查區然後中間被停聘最後還他清白其實他在過程當中已經受到很大的煎熬了然後即便是最後恢復他的就是說他沒有這樣的問題要恢復他的聘任可是過程當中他所受的傷害已經難以彌補那如果你還把他"},{"start":3147.334,"end":3169.694,"text":"這段期間應該領的加級把它扣掉的話我覺得是非常非常不公道的所以我們今天這個法律我們今天的修法就是希望能夠把加級一起因為現行狀況之下是只回復本薪和年功薪嘛沒有加級那我們的修法是希望能夠把加級一併回復除了是讓老師得到應有的待遇之外"},{"start":3170.054,"end":3187.9,"text":"更是對老師有一個最起碼的尊重所以呢希望一起來努力然後除了這個之外還希望大家一起共同把老師所面臨的不友善的環境一併把它改善謝謝好謝謝葉園珠委員最後一位有請張雅令委員做提案說明請"},{"start":3194.808,"end":3218.433,"text":"謝謝主席我想大家今天應該都引用了蠻多2026年親子天下的最新的教師幸福感的調查那這一份調查裡面其實的資料非常 蒐集的資料非常的完整那我也希望教育部可以仔細的來看看我們的教師面對了一個怎麼樣艱辛的一份工作因為他們的幸福感只有五成一份只有幸福感五成的工作卻要面臨到非常多的爛訴或者是很多"},{"start":3219.353,"end":3235.998,"text":"管教上面的包含最近大家有看到一些对于老师的一些批评等等的我想这个是我们今天大家应该要一起来关注的事情那今天我特别来讲一下针对于教师法第25条的修正那我认为这几件事情的核心说法的核心就是追求一个公平而已"},{"start":3236.838,"end":3253.57,"text":"我們的制度現在是一個老師如果被停聘但是最後調查結果是沒有問題也沒有被解聘也沒有被終局停聘的時候那他可以回來任教那會補給他這個停聘期間的一個本性可是卻沒有補給他學術佳績"},{"start":3254.932,"end":3269.874,"text":"我認為這樣是非常的不合理的對於許多沒有兼任行政職務的那也沒有在偏遠地區服務的老師來說他的固定薪資就是本薪加上學術加級這不是額外的獎勵這是他日常穩定的收入結果他現在"},{"start":3270.635,"end":3288.095,"text":"調查結果也沒有做錯事情好朋友已經證明了清白我必須說真的是蠻艱辛的得到了清白之後卻只有補給他一半的薪資另外一半直接消失那我認為這就是一個制度上的扣薪而且是對於一個沒有做錯事情的人來扣薪"},{"start":3289.496,"end":3315.369,"text":"那從法律上來說民法第487條也講得非常清楚如果不是受僱人的責任沒有提供勞務也不代表他不能請求報酬老師在停聘期間沒有上課不是他自己造成的他也沒有補上課的義務那為什麼報酬要打折所以這次還是回到我在講的就是我追求的就是一個公平而已不只本心連同學術加級要一併的補發"},{"start":3317.19,"end":3340.055,"text":"我們不能夠讓一個已經證明自己沒有問題的老師還要獨自承受損失謝謝謝謝張雅玲委員那我們所有的提案說明到這邊告一個段落那這一次的會議呢採一併報告綜合詢答現在我們進行報告請教育部鄭英耀部長報告報告時間15分鐘請"},{"start":3349.537,"end":3374.539,"text":"主席各位委員大家早安大家好本人今日應邀列席貴委員會就本部主管教育全國教育青年發展等業務以及委員所提案修正教師法第245條發給教師暫時停聘期間之待意提出報告進行各位委員會議指教以下僅就責要報告11項教育措施以及未來規劃重點相關內容"},{"start":3376.025,"end":3396.042,"text":"備有詳細的一個書面資料另外第12項分析發給教師暫時停聘期間之大疫疫情委員一併指正首先在學權教育方面為提供學權兒童幼兒能夠在一個更安全更舒適的環境中快樂成長我們在114年補助2955元改善教學設施設備另外也投入了2.2億"},{"start":3403.968,"end":3428.61,"text":"鼓勵幼兒開始喜歡閱讀也添夠適合的圖書其次在充裕幼兒研師之鼓勵教保員在持進修取得幼兒研教師資格持續辦理幼教專班及幼兒研教師學士後教育學問班另外增加9任議員也積極提升教保服務人員的工作條件"},{"start":3429.831,"end":3447.484,"text":"調整公立幼稚園企業禁用教保服務人員之薪資基準每人每月提高3%另外也明定公共化教保服務機構具幼兒園教師資格之教保員其教保費補助比照教師職務加給額度資給此外增加"},{"start":3452.247,"end":3478.784,"text":"評價教保的一個就學機會提供全國約五十二萬個評價就學機會並為提供育兒家庭臨時支持措施臨時照顧服務目前公立幼兒園延長照顧在一百一十四年開辦以來已經達到九成其次在國民教育方面為確保兒少權益及教學品質持續精進校園是建了一個處理會議制度"},{"start":3480.424,"end":3484.958,"text":"建構更健全有效且符合公平正義原則的教師管理體系"},{"start":3486.187,"end":3511.702,"text":"體制另外展現對教師專業的付出體恤教學現場長期累積的工作負荷提高導師職務家及終點會增加行政工作獎金追溯從民國14年9月1日起生效此外也持續提供師師工會生的生活支持提高專業成長會及生活津貼其實在充裕"},{"start":3513.356,"end":3536.799,"text":"偏眼地區事實方面我們也開辦偏眼地區學士學校學士或學問班總共有500提供530人修讀為教育注入新的一個人才另外也引導教師導入數位科技以人工智慧的一個應用此外本部也跟運動部持續合作精進學校體育"},{"start":3538.12,"end":3542.991,"text":"交協品質並補助290所高級中等學校以下修建運動"},{"start":3544.967,"end":3571.374,"text":"場地及充實體育器材設備第三在技職教育方面聚焦六大核心戰略產業五大信賴產業政策的推動所需要的一個技術人才本部核定離岸風電電動車智慧電網無人機等20座新興產業人才培育基地並擴充53所技專校園AI教學設備培育跨校跨領域學生"},{"start":3572.074,"end":3592.376,"text":"具備AI技術因為落實產學連結共益專才實施彈性學制以課程並兼顧學生就業就學需求持續推動產學攜手合作2.014年至少有2萬名技術型高中以上學生參加此外"},{"start":3593.337,"end":3611.549,"text":"為了強化技職學士的一個整合推動技術高中跟科技大學的一個合作3加2新武裝模式也已經有300有38所科大138所技高合作辦理合定技術技高"},{"start":3612.6,"end":3626.158,"text":"學生一萬一千四百五十人更示範計職工會實施培育專班計畫優化專班實作技術培育課程及輔導工會生取得以及以上專業製造專業證照"},{"start":3629.022,"end":3656.267,"text":"是在高等教育方面為延攬重點領域優秀人才及培育國家高階人才推動彈性薪資協助大學延攬符合校務發展重點領域需求之新進教師此外為精進國家重點領域頂尖研究及提升高教品質配合國家重點產業領域人才需求鼓勵大專校院擴增資通訊半導體AI"},{"start":3659.492,"end":3688.275,"text":"機械科領域相關系統招生名額此外在115跟116前年度也感謝我們所有委員的一個支持通過特別預算200億來協助大學的一個發展國際攬財以及跟企業共賠人才此外也補助博士生海外留學每人每年最高100萬及延攬優秀境外博士生每人每夜4萬元"},{"start":3690.592,"end":3712.377,"text":"另外為因應生成式AI帶動產業的一個轉型成立台灣大專校園人工智慧學程聯盟台卡整合全國AI教育資源推動跨校合作教學以學分採認培育具專業素養以競爭力之AI人才此外推動教育平權"},{"start":3715.397,"end":3735.383,"text":"為輔助弱勢級特殊經營學生,我們也在2014年起開始試辦大專校院清涵學生當他的一個成績達到前班或者前夕的30%,他就可以每個月有獎學金8000元到1萬元的來協助他們在困境中經濟學業第五"},{"start":3736.943,"end":3757.601,"text":"在數位科技方面為營運國際數位學習的一個發展趨勢以及AI的發展對教育造成了一個深遠影響持續引導不同年齡的學生強化數位學習軟硬體資源充實數位內容以及應用深層式AI輔助教學以自主學習並研發新一代AI學習系統"},{"start":3759.554,"end":3778.116,"text":"另外提供教師教學輔導與支持推動入校入班陪伴服務14年累計了787校次的一個參加提升教師數位教學資能推廣數位教學之一以及強化科技領域AI素養"},{"start":3779.266,"end":3805.47,"text":"另外也建置教育部學習載具管理系統建構以維護教育大數據資料庫以及培養教育人員資料素養另外推廣高級中等學校新興科技教育共計22所中興學校及123所合作學校辦理2015年開始推動AI實驗方案推動偏遠地區學生數位學習的興趣及自主學習能力"},{"start":3806.274,"end":3825.098,"text":"第六在語言教育方面為厚植多元平權的本土語言教育辦理台灣語料庫的一個建置計畫建置台灣客語拼音學習網供各界使用另外增進高級中等以下學校學生應用雙語機會補助1320學校辦理雙語生活化的一個計畫此外也"},{"start":3832.42,"end":3858.801,"text":"選擇三所偏鄉學校、四辦住宿學校及雙語創新學校協助其發展全日行的多元學習環境豐富偏鄉學生學習資源其次在國際教育方面為配合國家發展需求這一個鼓勵學生護國外優秀大學攻讀五大信賴產業相關領域的博士學位從今年開始"},{"start":3860.438,"end":3886.269,"text":"考試方式改變先不再用紙筆的測驗直接改採書面審查後面試提高五大信賴產業學門的一個錄取生也錄取生的一個學位跟生活費的一個補助額度持續擴大招收國際生來臺就學及留學就業強化start in Taiwan的宣傳及"},{"start":3888.271,"end":3911.16,"text":"提供僑外生就學獎學金推動新南向產學合作專班設立國際產學人才教育專班畢業後留才就業就業義務提供產業所需人才以一三年一三學年度國際生在七十六所大學"},{"start":3913.385,"end":3917.99,"text":"畢業總共有8294人留下就業升學有4265人這一個留台率高達二分之一以上15年開始"},{"start":3929.076,"end":3950.068,"text":"推動華語教育2030年計畫以深化全球華語教育合作鏈結整合國內華語教育資源透過鏈結國內外華語教育專業人員強化行銷具台灣特色的華語教育在安心校園方面為維護學生的身心健康及"},{"start":3950.788,"end":3970.024,"text":"全人發展推動促進學生身心健康相關計畫以打造健康安心平等以尊重的友善校園環境充實校園專業輔導人力14年度高中端共治5352名專任輔導老師及專業輔導人員大專校園"},{"start":3976.445,"end":4005.007,"text":"共補助138校488名專任及兼任輔導人員的終點會此外也持續落實性別平等教育推動數位及網路性別暴力防治營造性別友善的一個校園空間另外也積極改善協助改善無障礙校園環境持續建構特殊教育的支持體系"},{"start":4007.438,"end":4036.89,"text":"目標於117年達成特殊教育班師生比國小1比10國中1比8高中時1比15完善特教助理人員人力並增加1600名月薪制學生助理員提升服務量能久在中生教育畫面為提供民眾中生學習機會及管道從114年開始推動中生學習線以及"},{"start":4041.081,"end":4055.471,"text":"中生教育師所管轄五管的一個通行票提供國人依其自身需求至社區大學、樂齡大學或部署社教館體驗社教館所體驗優質學習並進而培養中生學習習慣及行動另外從115年度推動"},{"start":4063.951,"end":4085.524,"text":"三十plus大學示範計畫也就是說將終身學習的一個對象從原本的55歲調整到30歲以上的成人已有60所大學申請鼓勵民眾培養第二專長及社會參與的能力讓不同階段的一個民眾都能回流在學習第十在原住民教育方面"},{"start":4086.636,"end":4092.94,"text":"以建立完整体系深耕民族意识培育族群人才尊重多元共荣为方针"},{"start":4116.617,"end":4116.637,"text":"好"},{"start":4117.845,"end":4146.865,"text":"開始增加到20名另外也攜手跟地方政府與學校合作擴充教育現場所需施施透過工會專班來培育務實調整以及務實調整國小足以施施資格及工會生畢業條件等措施創新足以施施培育制度第十一在青年發展方面為推動青年發展落實總統國家希望工程維護青年權益"},{"start":4148.103,"end":4174.81,"text":"除以以今年115年1月21日公布青年基本法並依據115年青年整合就學就業創業居住公共參與等政策為架構制定完成青年政策白皮書協助青年自我實現促進國家社會永續發展此外擴大青年白藝海外研夢計畫14年總共錄取"},{"start":4180.244,"end":4199.836,"text":"1463位年輕朋友到80幾個國家去圓夢今年更增加推出圓夢助力方案優先保障原住民偏鄉經濟弱勢學生及特殊技藝的青年參與權總共有331位青年走向世界"},{"start":4200.777,"end":4229.765,"text":"那最後有關委員提案的教師法第25條修法內容發給教師暫停暫時停聘期間待遇之本部立場現行教師法第25條規定教師經學校暫時停聘經調查後未受解聘或終極停聘並互聘者依規定發給本心我想有關這一個本心裡邊應該他是包含本縫跟協助研究會那麼"},{"start":4230.425,"end":4251.826,"text":"本部全力積極這一個建請我們委員也能夠支持來做教師法25條的一個修改以確保教師的一個權益 以上 謝謝好 謝謝鄭英耀部長其餘提出書面報告的機關代表有沒有口頭補充"},{"start":4254.172,"end":4278.192,"text":"好 沒有齁那機關代表報告完畢相關的書面資料請各位參閱並列入公報記錄現在我們開始進行詢答那因為登記發言的人數較多而且今天會進行法案的逐條審查所以討論條文的時候呢我們還是可以充分的表達意見所以今天每位出席委員質詢五分鐘"},{"start":4280.194,"end":4306.341,"text":"必要时延长两分钟 列席委员质询时间是4分钟发言登记截止时间是10点30分如果有委员有临时提案请在10点30分前提出处理提案的时候如果提案委员跟联署委员均不在场原例我们不予处理首先请登记第一位罗志强委员质询请"},{"start":4311.028,"end":4311.769,"text":"主席有請部長請鄭義耀部長謝謝"},{"start":4321.852,"end":4341.952,"text":"部長好那我在這個會期來到教育文化委員會所以我會期一開始就到我的選區的各個學校去拜訪然後看看每個學校目前的教育現場到底的狀況如何需要的那個幫助是什麼"},{"start":4342.893,"end":4366.561,"text":"那我剛剛在提案說明已經說過了我非常印象深刻幾乎每一個校長跟我講的第一件事情他們反應第一件事情是什麼請問部長你知道是什麼事嗎教師聘任對 教師荒每一個校長沒有一個校長沒提到這件事情所以部長你覺得目前教師荒嚴重嗎"},{"start":4369.342,"end":4394.223,"text":"跟委員報告我想當然我們看到了有部分的縣市陳儒委員剛才所提的他不只是在偏鄉離島或者飛山飛勢的學校連都會區也有遇到一些代理代課的老師特別在STEAM或者一些特教的一些類科上他確實是有一定程度的挑戰"},{"start":4395.544,"end":4412.836,"text":"但是我看完教育部的業務報告裡面幾乎沒有提到教師黃的議題只有非常篇幅少的提到教師的家籍所以我跟部長說這就是我今天來這邊我看到一個很大的落差感當我在"},{"start":4414.025,"end":4441.161,"text":"各個學校拜訪每一個學校校長跟我講的第一件事都是教師荒但這個基層的聲音竟然沒有反映到今天我們教育部的業務報告裡面我覺得這一點麻煩部長針對教師荒這件事情能夠請部裡面到底現在怎麼因應這件事給我一個報告好嗎準備一個報告給我可以嗎可以好那我要告訴部長剛剛你已經講過他是全國現象"},{"start":4442.802,"end":4466.392,"text":"顯示教育現場失調人才失之的推力大於拉力尤其其實對台北、雙北的衝擊又特別大所以甚至有媒體形容這是教師的脫北潮我想請問部長你知道教師離開都會離開台北造成的缺額有多嚴重嗎"},{"start":4467.472,"end":4494.214,"text":"那根據統計跟媒體報導台北市教師缺額連四年增加114學年度總學缺是2210位高中值732位 國中721位 國小757位那去年的狀況台北市佔全國缺額也高達34%招不到老師 要招代理老師但找代理老師 剛剛部長也講 其實也很困難"},{"start":4495.049,"end":4514.364,"text":"那從招聘六次七次到放寬到十幾二十次甚至也有到四十五次才找到代理老師一招再招不斷的放寬變成代理教室裡面沒有教師證也可能在三到四成我剛剛去拜訪學校的教育學生也是這樣反應"},{"start":4515.265,"end":4543.901,"text":"找代理教師基本上大學畢業就可以了幾乎跟委員報告委員可不可以我有比較長的時間把這一個來龍去脈是跟委員做詳細的一個報告因為執行時間有限沒關係部長你簡要但是有些東西我們可以在另外再談可以那我整個事後我可以跟委員做詳細報告簡單來講就是說我們國教署當時為了確保國民教育因為少子化裡邊許多學校大量採用代理老師對所以鼓勵"},{"start":4545.001,"end":4570.215,"text":"地方能夠優先聘專任老師從111嫌疑度到114其實我知道你又增加那個正式老師的職缺嘛每年增加500位的專任欸5000位的專任部長這個其實我在教育現場所以因為這樣所以產生了一定的我懂了部長你不用擔心喔因為這個其實我在教育現場那些校長也跟我講到這件事情喔但是它形成另外一個問題就是對台北市衝擊變更大嘛對不對"},{"start":4571.556,"end":4586.276,"text":"因為台北市的物價指數身為各方面所以台北市現在其實他開始給在地的這些中小學老師在攬財留財有更多的一些待遇上的一些加碼我覺得這樣一個策略"},{"start":4587.81,"end":4603.598,"text":"台北市在未來教師的一個延攬應該會有正面的一些感覺其實我覺得部長講到重點就是說以前你看到偏鄉的老師很難找所以偏鄉我們教育部我們國家會給予一些補助的政策對不對但是現在其實倒過來"},{"start":4604.719,"end":4631.261,"text":"現在變成是說今天都會區尤其是台北因為生活物價高但薪水拿的都一樣的時候事實上就會造成說今天教師荒最嚴重是發生在都會區尤其是在發生在台北市這點我還是要拜託部長為我的我們台北市請命就是說在所謂的增加這個所謂補貼的一個部分的話我們請教育部也能夠來研擬怎麼樣去幫助紓解台北市的教師荒可以嗎"},{"start":4632.582,"end":4646.202,"text":"謝謝委員的一個關心我想國民教育當然是地方權限但是確保教育品質中央跟地方怎麼樣來共同攜手合作讓老師有一個更好的更穩定的一個教學環境更支持力道"},{"start":4647.023,"end":4668.624,"text":"支持性夠的一個環境我想這對我們新世代的教育品質絕對有幫助的我有些想法我再另外跟教育部溝通另外我這邊有接到一些反應就是有關於老師兼教練的問題也麻煩我們部裡頭來研究一下在教育歷程裡面運動教育只是很重要的一環"},{"start":4669.525,"end":4686.044,"text":"不管是培養國手還是學能或全能養成那實際上現在我知道教育部也好我們的運動部都很重視這一塊但是呢有很多老師現在幾乎是燃燒自己在帶校隊帶體育機優或專長的學生這一點狀況我想部長應該知道對不對那怎麼說呢因為"},{"start":4689.508,"end":4706.417,"text":"按照現行規定教師兼任校隊訓練工作他只能用社團老師的名義每週只能減授一到二節課那我現在台北市接到很多陳情的狀況是國中專任教師一週基本授課時數是18節但是兼校隊的訓練老師每週基本授課時數仍然高達16到17節但是這些老師帶學生早晚"},{"start":4715.222,"end":4737.47,"text":"午休甚至假日寒暑假訓練工作都在進行每週實際工作量甚至高達30節課以上那也有老師跟我反映說為了帶校隊帶體育學生學生時間還超過陪自己家裡小孩那我要講就是說我說的這不是體育班是沒有專任教練的學校"},{"start":4738.03,"end":4757.079,"text":"那很多體育老師或是經驗相關經驗的老師帶校隊跟體育相關學生有些老師本身選手出身那這些部分我覺得教育部能不能也給我一個報告就是說怎麼樣來去對他們有一些幫助跟支援確實我們在中小學特別小學"},{"start":4757.699,"end":4783.772,"text":"有許多的這些老師間這個社團 等於說運動團隊的一些教練他們都是非常熱情甚至有的還提供學生的時數我想這一個部分我們都經常會耳聞聽到這樣的優秀熱情的老師我們來給他怎麼樣一個更大的我覺得要給實質的幫助啦因為你今天完全靠老師燃燒自己去做其實對老師來講負擔真的是非常大"},{"start":4784.332,"end":4790.737,"text":"所以我們需要教育部來做後盾 以上好 謝謝謝謝羅志強委員 請部長回座接下來有請柯志恩委員謝謝各位 我們請部長請部長謝謝"},{"start":4809.169,"end":4824.532,"text":"部长好我想今天从刚刚到现在到等一下都有很多人关切我们老师的这个环境的问题你知道学生的管教越来越严重那我想很多的家长跟学校其实都有点束手无策像之前就有一个是"},{"start":4825.092,"end":4850.052,"text":"1岁的小孩飙车还压车过关哇塞过弯了这个父母亲都不知道该怎么管而且呢现在没有宗措但是常常请假这是校园里面常常发生的一些的状况显然这个学校也是不太有有办法来做处理啊那部长你可以知道从2012年开始有关师生的问题冲突的问题啊那个时候呢大概每年平均只有300多件"},{"start":4850.913,"end":4867.731,"text":"在2019的时候呢赢到500多件到了2023年赢到771件而且这还有很多的黑数所以说呢这个师生关系紧张学生不断地用网络上网去po跟老师进行冲突面对这样的状况部长你有任何的对策吗"},{"start":4869.334,"end":4880.648,"text":"謝謝委員關心青少年一個發展確實在情緒上的一個教育情緒的一個管理人際之間的一個互動溝通我們從去年暑假開始跟委員報告"},{"start":4882.177,"end":4900.104,"text":"國教署我已經要他們開始推動這一個屬性就是培養同理心部長我知道同理心我們從以前就培養到現在你會發現現在的孩子跟老師越來越沒有同學部長因為時間因為召委給我們的時間太短今天是夜報應該給我們更多的時間那你看我還是給你看一個數據"},{"start":4901.044,"end":4925.083,"text":"为什么我要拿这个当例子就是目前来说老师感受到整个教学环境让他们倍感挫折你可以看出来当初部长我们都是学教育心理学的我们都施施培育过当初我们培养的学生这个施培出来他们为了要考上教真教简他们花了多好时间然后考上之后欣喜若狂然后就到学校去任教这是我们所知道的教育的正常但是你看现在你看这个比率"},{"start":4925.743,"end":4950.99,"text":"目前来说呢新手老师的任教比例越来越低了你知道吗取得教师证跟正式代理的比例大概只有57.4你再看下面这个数字就成了我刚刚所说的当身为一个师资培育的老师我们目前为止大概有23万个是具有教师证的一个资格但是呢投入整个的教职的工作大概只有13万也就是说有三分之一合格老师是不进校园的"},{"start":4951.69,"end":4971.582,"text":"而且任教十年的变化里面呢从70%到60%而且呢这个整个心血投入下降所以你不可否认就是整个的环境真的是让老师觉得倍感挫折这边可以给部长看到吗不同的团体做出不同的这样的比例图但是呢青师生三片面的共同困难"},{"start":4972.122,"end":4987.643,"text":"校园文化的管理问题缺乏成就感 质押疲乏还有缺乏专业制度再加上校士会的整个那个烂数所以说呢一些老师就告诉你我不是不爱孩子啊我是这个制度没有办法让我爱下去啊所以你看这个比率"},{"start":4988.504,"end":5006.749,"text":"当初考上学校包括你自己从师专毕业你那时候是琢磨以当老师为荣结果你看现在你可以想象到目前为止你当教育部长的当下你看看连公费生也宁可赔钱也要离职就表示这个环境已经让他没有办法带下去了所以我们归纳结果是怎么样呢下面一页"},{"start":5007.469,"end":5022.828,"text":"就是整个的结构的问题师资人力不稳校园冲突增加亲事关系简单烂速明白身为部长同样是一个教师专业出来一路过来的你应该很有感吧部长怎么办你不要告诉我怎么同理心那不好了"},{"start":5024.394,"end":5043.623,"text":"委員這太重要了同理心很重要但是你先告訴我老師的問題老師問題怎麼解決我跟委員關係的都一樣我們都非常在意是來怎麼解決那我也有一個數據可能這一個跟委員update一下我們現在近五年拿到教師證的有八成的"},{"start":5045.244,"end":5058.631,"text":"教室這個年輕老師他們還是到中小學教育現場停留多久 三年 停留三年以上的比例多少比例多少 告訴我我要跟委員報告是代理代課呢 還是正式老師"},{"start":5060.498,"end":5078.719,"text":"正式老師或者帶領帶客的正式老師停留三年以上有多少同意委員有許多的現象我們怎麼樣提供更友善的校園環境怎麼友善部長怎麼友善我們一直在努力就像委員也支持學生胡刀華"},{"start":5079.56,"end":5102.298,"text":"也通过了嘛对吧来来来你不抢还好学生服务长先谈这个问题学生服务长那个彭书长也在我后面我真的要特别问一下你上次告诉我的有关于新的编制准则我们好不容易过去了编制编制准则你告诉我你已经公告了有吗我点进去看112年你还是用旧的法再来做这样的事情"},{"start":5102.958,"end":5105.02,"text":"包委員 我們那時候跟您報告的是現行的相關作法都已經到我們的計畫內會增加600位包委員 會增加600位老師跟"},{"start":5120.391,"end":5147.441,"text":"192位专政人员这个都跟委员报告过不是你告诉我你的网站上面你的新的编制准则你还是照旧法来往下面看更不要想说我们好不容易进去了部长你这个部分里面还包括我们的老师这个很多的老师就特别提到了他们这个已经的人力已经非常的缺乏然后呢也很多老师特别提到了目前来说他们没有办法像一般老师一样可以按节次来去做这样的一个增补"},{"start":5148.121,"end":5167.899,"text":"那这些都是一个很大的问题我们下面的这样的一个部分好 我先回到刚刚我真的还没有讲完所以部长你跟我说我支持学生辅导法是 但是很多的配套你完全没有update跟上来所以根据刚刚我们所提到那么多的教师的觉得校园不友善的问题你真正的对策到底在哪里"},{"start":5169.54,"end":5187.572,"text":"對策在哪裡嗎 根據這個我想譬如說施施的不穩定我們看到了STEM或者偏鄉離島我們開始增加了一個原住民的專班我們對STEM這個我肯定你能努力但是你這些問題還是沒有不足以我們對偏鄉的代理代課老師他沒有辦法"},{"start":5188.593,"end":5205.088,"text":"因為他對教育是有熱忱的所以我們改變了用線上來上課部長我再跟你加雞同鴨講這個部分我剛才說我肯定你的做法對於偏鄉但是對於線上不是偏鄉的這些老師的人力不穩校園衝突校園爛樹我們也感謝委員的支持我們現在事實上"},{"start":5208.271,"end":5230.494,"text":"所以你都认为你都做好了吗不是我想有一些东西教育这个东西不是一夜之间就能够看到效果我当然知道教育不是一夜之间但是教育的很多的问题我们到目前为止同样讨论的都是这些表示很多的做法目前为止还是没有办法解决这是我所提出来的"},{"start":5230.894,"end":5256.807,"text":"部長因為時間有限我請你把這樣的部分給我一份報告來告訴我你針對我所提出這四大項你做的策略到底是什麼可以嗎因為我們時間沒有辦法在這個地方對不起給我一分鐘的時間我還是要問到這個有關於這個我們上次已經我們的召委在這個地方已經排定了這樣子的一個問題但是很顯然沒有辦法解決原因很簡單你知道目前為止來說我們往下看"},{"start":5259.528,"end":5273.164,"text":"这是一个学生在我们上次的讨论完之后他亲手写信给我的学生给我写的他就是我把他的名字弄掉啊他是说告诉我们目前他们这些的剥削一直存在然后你们告诉大家"},{"start":5274.445,"end":5278.247,"text":"那时候教育部本来非常好的也可以告诉我们就说你有个公约有一个合约就是说你用赋月薪的方法教育部本来本意很良善"},{"start":5304.338,"end":5319.905,"text":"但是呢因为赋月薪的方法这些很多的地方就是让他一个礼拜可以工作40小时可是他只有4天可以工作所以要求他们一天工作10小时一天工作10小时而且呢"},{"start":5320.285,"end":5334.273,"text":"他們工作10小時的時候呢有很多你們當初我們被糾舉的新南向國際專班因為你們特別要求特別保護所以呢他們可以收時薪而且每天不能超過8小時反而是這些僑生他們每天被要求工作超過一天超過10小時的這樣子的血汗所以他們告訴大家他們真的是很累了"},{"start":5342.637,"end":5370.024,"text":"他們想來這邊學習但是呢他們被要求的沒有辦法所以好像就是一個來這邊留學可是被當作勞工來做看待那這樣子的一個合法化你怎麼來做這個解決這是存在的事實不要告訴我們你們超乎違法沒有這種事超乎違法就不會有一群學生來這邊控告我想我的心情這樣一個案例的控訴這不是案例喔我的心情跟委員是一樣的我一定會嚴格來查只要查到"},{"start":5371.784,"end":5397.699,"text":"我事實上跟我們報告我在去年跟32所的技高學校的所有的董事校長我直接感謝我們彭署長的邀請在南東我特別舉了因為我不希望台灣是一個國學天堂我希望台灣有更多的國際派是以後培養出更多的林培但是你現在的政策我相信這是一個理想因為這個東西來說的話"},{"start":5401.461,"end":5425.429,"text":"對,不用預告,不預告,不定期的去做,你不要有事情你才去做我們也去查到了一個即將要退場的一個學校就是說我要談的是說許多的東西我們逐步來做,我的心情是跟我一樣的部長,我從2016年當立委到這邊所有的部長在那執行台上面都告訴我教育不是一觸之間就可以完成,我們都逐步來做"},{"start":5426.369,"end":5451.423,"text":"問到2026了 十年了 還在逐步來做你會知道讓我們所有的老師 還有讓我們很多的學生都非常的覺得希望教育部能夠主動做一些的事情我說如果你們沒有辦法按照法定的規定來辦我會把這個班關掉第二個如果你學校連在地的本國生都沒有認真地把他辦學你們學校我也會把你關掉"},{"start":5452.183,"end":5472.627,"text":"所以说我现在已经呈现出这样的一个状况421请不要让这些学生永远要透过跟立法委员这样子的告知然后才有办法发现这些事实我只能告诉你每一次我们做出任何的事情然后你们去查都说查无违法这种的状况真的会让很多受害的学生不定期的"},{"start":5473.467,"end":5489.617,"text":"我們我的這個專門委都親自下去現場去看我想這個我們來努力但也許一時間沒有辦法立即改善但是這是我們我現在最後只是祈求部長你真的也是教育出身的老師的環境越來越惡劣"},{"start":5490.478,"end":5511.164,"text":"你不能否认有更多更多的老师不愿意投注在这个地方有更多的老师很希望他的热情能够被我们的教育部可以接触然后呢我们有很多的学生在这个过程里面桥外学生也很想来台湾学习不要因为我们的法治我们的一些制度还有我们一些想贪小便宜因为找移工找学工远比找那些"},{"start":5511.644,"end":5527.873,"text":"所謂的移工來得更且省錢我不希望我們的台灣教育變成是如此這個是你跟我共同期望你現在握有權力你應該更知道如何能夠來做這樣的一個部分留在這裡的原因謝謝委員你要走到這裡你就好好幫我們把這些你的問題把它解決啊"},{"start":5528.853,"end":5530.214,"text":"我現在的眼睛會越來越多了謝謝委員"},{"start":5557.602,"end":5584.261,"text":"好謝謝主席有請部長請部長到質詢台委員好部長好部長剛剛柯委員下去以後啊他講了一句話你可能沒聽到他說你是一個好人但是呢我一直要想我們不能夠把所有的事情建立在各個部會首長是好人"},{"start":5585.325,"end":5591.394,"text":"的一個基礎上而是要把它建立在制度上就像你剛剛說的不要讓我看到你絕對會出力"},{"start":5593.22,"end":5614.012,"text":"但是有多少我們沒有看到這是重點所以不只是增加眼睛我們更希望透過制度透過檢舉透過不要只是找立法委員我們能夠處理多少這樣子的零星案件他已經變成零星變成很多的通案的話我想是制度上有問題不管是剛剛喬森的問題到校園爛樹的問題到現在校園暴力的問題"},{"start":5619.542,"end":5644.062,"text":"前幾天又出了一個所謂的用棍棒敲頭的案件您知道嗎我想這個事情到底要怎麼處理有委員為了這樣子還要求我一定要排公聽會一定要排這個案子要來審他所謂的希望有特殊案例的孩子要轉介到其他的單位來做一個培養那您覺得這樣的說法對嗎"},{"start":5646.24,"end":5668.659,"text":"我想教育的一個難處就是我們很難把某一個事件變成全部大家都一致的處理但是我也同意委員剛才所提我們在很多時候是要建立制度所以校園怎麼樣防止有一個更友善校園而是沒有死角的一個校園讓我們怎麼樣在課間或者放學的時間"},{"start":5670.895,"end":5695.621,"text":"校安人員學校的一個幸福人員能夠或者導致能夠全力的投入到協助學生青少年的一個這一個發展我想這都是我們在努力的我知道我們都努力但是不能夠僅靠愛的教育啊你不能說因為校園暴力多我們來多一點品德教育就這樣子而已不是說品德教育不重要因為他當然會有這樣一個行為絕對不是一日之"},{"start":5696.101,"end":5717.473,"text":"形成了嘛我們先來瞭解從親師親子教育親師合作到校園的一個友善環境的一個所有的一個努力包含我們國教署在這一個去年就有這個前面我都知道包括你的夜光天使願意來支持我想這個都是不管是事前我們來做一些相關的教育"},{"start":5717.953,"end":5743.383,"text":"事後我們也希望說有一些強力的手段能夠介入這是家長端這是老師端這是其他正常願意認真上課的學生都希望的所以我們還是回歸到今天的主題前言我們談了這麼多但今天我們就教師法25條我想今天的報告寫得很清楚25條我們為什麼今天要來討論你的報告裡面就寫得很清楚引發校園爛樹一綠"},{"start":5745.024,"end":5768.522,"text":"省着教师非自愿停止工作以及现在近年物价大幅成长下尚难充分的维持基本生活跟家庭照顾的所需却有再检讨精进之处这个是你的报告所写的所以我的版本很简单现行条文说的补发其停聘期间全数的本薪"},{"start":5770.143,"end":5791.913,"text":"還有我還多了五項考核獎金年終獎金職務佳績學術佳績地域佳績簡而言之就是四個字權益還原就如同今天的教育報告你們的裡面所到所寫到的爛樹一律非自願停止以及生活照顧的所需我認為"},{"start":5794.113,"end":5807.81,"text":"應該要補發這五項這五項不是額外的優惠是教師在原聘任的狀態下就應該領取的待遇結構的一部分部長您怎麼回應我的版本"},{"start":5809.205,"end":5835.241,"text":"我感謝委員的一個對老師權益的一個關心但是確實我們學校裡邊不是每一個老師都有兼行政工作也不是每一個老師都有兼導師但是我們怎麼確保他最基本的所謂的薪水每個月那個薪水就是本鳳家學術研究會這應該的我從將近兩年前進來我跟地方在"},{"start":5836.101,"end":5853.623,"text":"老師在座談的時候我聽一聽就是還是同理心將心比心我認為他的薪水應該被保障當他被不實指控這也是我們第一個階段在處理校士會議以後把濫訴匿名投訴的拿掉接著再來支持老師當他有"},{"start":5854.364,"end":5879.579,"text":"受到不當的指控或者誤解的時候回他 回復他金牌不是來自於他 歸咎於他個人的我們本來就應該把整個月的薪水給他所以就像你剛剛講的嘛不是每個人都有行政家級不是每個人都有教師家級所以我所主張的1加5並不是他一定領到滿 領到有啊一定也要看他原本的薪資待遇結構裡面有沒有這一項啊"},{"start":5880.279,"end":5892.701,"text":"所以你只說你的一加一我認為他就已經喪失他原有的權益了嘛建立制度一個完美的一個未來社會的一個想像當然有時候沒有辦法一出"},{"start":5894.387,"end":5917.37,"text":"一次到位你又要說無法一觸即成了但是我這個誰不知道但是我還是希望這件事情還人家清白了就應該要好好的重視他的問題啊但是我想整個來講仇英社會的一個公正性您剛剛報告寫得很清楚非自願停止工作啊"},{"start":5918.07,"end":5946.204,"text":"證明清白了我們現在就是應該要修法進行補發是學校讓教師暫時不能服刑人我覺得不合理因為他的清白他本來就應該領著所有他該有的一些新的待遇結構的時候他是因為學校讓他暫時不能服刑他不是自願不做這件事情啊所以就不應該把沒有服刑的後果全部算在教師頭上啊"},{"start":5947.805,"end":5973.735,"text":"所以我們一直在講還他清白就應該要原有的責任都全部給他我想剛剛已經在談論到這麼多的問題我們教師能力不足校園爛數的問題以及現在我們看到我們要怎麼樣還他們清白之後給他們該有的權益這都是讓第一線的老師願意再回到學校最後的動力所以您在主張一加一的時候我覺得就是沒有在為老師想"},{"start":5974.375,"end":5996.014,"text":"沒有啦跟文報告你也知道我是小學老師出身我非常清楚第一線上我也擔任過兩次的地方的教育局的局長我非常熟悉第一線上老師的各項的一些他們的挑戰所以我也說你是一個好人但我也要告訴你你也知道我是三個孩子的父親是"},{"start":5996.354,"end":6009.543,"text":"站在家長角度我都願意幫老師講話因為我知道對老師好就是對我們的學生好如果沒有老師我們的孩子的未來就可能會接受更差的教育"},{"start":6012.125,"end":6030.434,"text":"就是溺愛我們有一些老師他事實上你如果錢不應該給老師老師領了他也會覺得心虛我們反而陷他於不義這樣子啦 部長再思考看看啦我希望能夠更全面的保障教師權益才符合公平這個我們的想法是一致的所以今天"},{"start":6031.734,"end":6046.233,"text":"遭委要逐條我也建議遭委今天現在院會還在施政總質詢是不是再給部長時間再想一下建議逐條能夠緩一緩不要急著我們是1加5不要1加1最後我再問一個問題"},{"start":6048.629,"end":6063.78,"text":"我想接著問學校運動設施補助案向我們部長來請教一下請問部長現在教育跟體育分家了請問你同意運動部在學校運動設施的補助上"},{"start":6064.833,"end":6088.225,"text":"只負責棒球跟足球嗎你同意嗎你覺得這合理嗎他現在的意思是其他的他一概不論任何運動設施喔都要由教育部來負責補助喔跟委員報告因為我並沒有聽到運動部有這樣的說法我現在告訴你了運動部給我的答案就是運動部只負責棒球跟足球場其他"},{"start":6089.145,"end":6116.376,"text":"所有的運動設施全部教育部自己要負責你同意嗎請你回答我我想應該他可能沒有把話講完因為還有一些專項還有一些許多的這些屬於政策上這一個在推動的那請問目前你有白紙黑字去了解這些分工的這個部分我想我們那個張料次長他都定期跟運動部這一個洪次長都會有一個雙邊的一個溝通協調"},{"start":6118.757,"end":6143.167,"text":"那這個部分我想委員所關心的我們來了解現在運動部要推給你啊那我再幫你爭取權益啊但我希望你應該要了解你目前到底有多困境有學校能夠蓋棒球場跟足球場應該很少九成以上的其他運動設施都要由教育部負責如果你同意這樣子的分工我只能說啊你會很辛苦"},{"start":6144.188,"end":6166.887,"text":"我們現在在爭取很多的考察的時候也遇到這樣的問題你剛剛跟我講的是專班相關的運動設施可能是針對比如說體育班專項競技類的但是就不要跟一般教學的設施一起審查的話我想體育班拉出來他們才有機會可以獲得補助"},{"start":6168.709,"end":6174.447,"text":"現在我們看到這樣的規定我們也希望他可以提出申請但問題是你們不會補助啊"},{"start":6175.342,"end":6202.969,"text":"所以這個問題在分工上你跟運動部我覺得你還要再好好的協商我們這些委員對於現在這樣子的考察遇到狀況我們沒辦法接受那基本上制度上就委員所言則上我們是都有共識的那我想委員剛才所提的也許我們這一個是不是運動部上話沒有把它講清楚我們事後再來了解所以我現在就想了解嘛 操場"},{"start":6203.729,"end":6227.935,"text":"跑道 籃球場 射箭場 羽球場 游泳池 網球場這些誰來補助 講清楚說明白所以部長你可以多久給我一個答案這基本上是由教育部因為體育教學但是如果屬於專項的這個競技型的一些團隊上的一些這個訓練那當然是運動部 我想我們會後再把它弄清楚"},{"start":6228.835,"end":6250.42,"text":"委員說造成委員的困擾兩個禮拜內給我答案好嗎兩個禮拜好可以嗎可以可以上個禮拜四我在教文辦這個考察我去台中教育大學十小看他們輕艇校隊台中教育大學的十小輕艇隊培育出多位國家代表亞運的選手像這樣子的輕艇校隊補助案要找誰"},{"start":6251.3,"end":6273.781,"text":"你知道嗎清庭基本上它是比較戶外的水域的活動應該是跟運動部的關聯性比較大但是如果在個案上來講我們來看怎麼樣來我們現在部長說應該是運動部啦我不怪你但運動部說叫我找你所以我就撐得很納悶今天我會遇到的問題我呼籲所有的委員你們都會遇到"},{"start":6274.676,"end":6291.322,"text":"一起來釐清這件事情最後30秒我們要感謝部長願意大力的支持夜光天使延伸到國中目前事辦兩年的成效都非常好我想還是要希望部長繼續能夠支持夜光天使能夠"},{"start":6292.202,"end":6309.537,"text":"事半延伸到國中的夜間的教育政策我們來推動夜光天使3.0脫貧是一條非常漫長辛苦的路但教育無疑是公平也希望有一條公平的路能夠讓新興學子透過自己的努力在教育制度上能夠向上繼續"},{"start":6311.698,"end":6339.479,"text":"來就學能夠有這樣的可能性所以我們要支持就像你剛剛說的雖然對於暴力事件我們沒有辦法很多方法但現在你說的品德教育同理心也好我們都希望夜光天使多一點接觸就來實施這一些教育這部分我希望一定要加油一定要支持好嗎一定好謝謝我們現在對偏鄉離島還有非三會式的學校我們大概都有這個前面來支持這個夜光天使拜託你謝謝"},{"start":6340.76,"end":6341,"text":"委員好"},{"start":6365.851,"end":6389.23,"text":"部長早首先本席還是要跟部長關心一下我們國家教育大業這新一年度的預算那目前在野黨遲遲不審總預算那雖然表面上假裝很在乎所以也想讓什麼新興計畫要先行動之可是根據這個立法院職權行使法第七條"},{"start":6390.431,"end":6401.506,"text":"預算案應該經過三讀程序所以這種所謂的新行動之案根本沒有前例而且除了有急迫性的新興計畫預算我們還有常態性的延續性的計畫預算"},{"start":6407.714,"end":6426.015,"text":"那比去年度多編一些預算那這些預算有可能是因應物價成長或者是要深化既有的政策那現在這筆錢也因為總預算沒省那面臨到不能使用的窘境那預算法第54條是說除了新興資本"},{"start":6427.196,"end":6455.348,"text":"支出及新增計劃外其他的計劃是依以或授權的原定計劃或接上年度執行數核實動之按照教育部提供的資料2026年常態性延續性的計劃預算比上一年度增加了66億元那白花一點來講這筆錢可說是藍白不省總預算可能會被實質砍掉的"},{"start":6456.889,"end":6480.442,"text":"看得到吃不到所以要請他補充簡單講一下這新增的66億的金額主要是用在什麼地方那如果像是說電費人事費這些費用可能今年的成本會有一些增加而且還要一定支出那就是無法被壓縮那其他哪些項目會因為這樣而被"},{"start":6483.342,"end":6484.263,"text":"緩減齁這個或者減縮它的規模部長"},{"start":6488.236,"end":6513.519,"text":"謝謝委員關心確實我們真的希望預算115的預算能夠趕快升為什麼因為光剛才委員所講的這個新增的預算裡邊我一直覺得對我們從小學到大學有一項無人機的一個學習這一個學習這一個協作然後從無人機的操作到設計到製造到"},{"start":6515.14,"end":6523.324,"text":"以後會影響到一個整個產業就是說我們從小學開始到大學這一個9.3億在未來我們是總共編了60對 將近10億"},{"start":6529.901,"end":6543.371,"text":"總共有將近五十億四年那我會希望說這個真的是非常重要的那當然像其他的它也包含譬如說我們看到有一些大學它事實上有許多歷史建物放在那邊我朋友說我覺得很不敢"},{"start":6546.973,"end":6566.887,"text":"我們怎麼樣給一些錢教育部第一是我們從公益算邊來支持大學去做老屋的改建或者一些維護我想這也非常有價值那剛才譬如說委員所提到的原來14年已經做的我們現在繼續再持續往好的方面再加碼譬如說像中生教育師裡面的"},{"start":6570.289,"end":6588.575,"text":"公共圖書館包含地方的Big Maker我們地方圖書館光這一項就增加了將近18億這事實上用來支持地方縣市裡面有自己的縣域更美更現代化的更Fashion的圖書館或者鄉鎮的一些鄉鎮型的圖書館上的擴充或者增建"},{"start":6596.218,"end":6614.279,"text":"那另外呢還有一個在資訊裡邊我們對中小學的數位的學習我想我們AI裡邊有許多的一些基本的設備我們用來支持中小學這裡邊的一些設備的一個添置包含這個用電當然用電補助也有還有像是"},{"start":6615.407,"end":6637.811,"text":"大學裡邊譬如說陽明大學的輔助醫院第二期的擴建計畫那麼也有15.6億這個都是今年新增的以類似這樣的東西他就都沒有辦法做我想我們擔心這個延誤到這一個工程特別在醫院裡邊其實有很多的時候他服務的是更廣大的社會大眾的一個健康"},{"start":6638.271,"end":6659.823,"text":"所以我還真心的期待我們委員能夠趕快來審查這一個15年的預算讓教育部能夠走得更快速更穩健所以部長剛講很多有列舉很多的項目就這66億到底有哪幾個項目其實是被擋掉的"},{"start":6661.204,"end":6678.314,"text":"假設沒有省 這些都動彈不得 都沒有辦法動那我現在是要問說 好 那既然狀況是這樣那我們要想到最壞最壞的話就是說 那藍白真的就擺爛不省那這樣子的話 你怎麼解決怎麼解決 有沒有想"},{"start":6678.914,"end":6695.522,"text":"想一些方法怎麼因應我不期待我不想像說我們預算不省我是一個正向難萬事樂觀的人我相信他還是會省就是說我只是希望我們都是做福國利民的事是要因為原來良善的一些"},{"start":6696.722,"end":6717.497,"text":"對未來想像社會更進步的想像因為這樣而耽擱了一些時間因為這樣而沒有辦法執行這確實是比較困難當然如果藍白可以來審總預算當然是最好因為你看去年的今年的不審那再來我們下半年度照理要審明年的那明年的呢"},{"start":6718.577,"end":6736.332,"text":"對 所以這個都環環相扣喔所以還是要趕快今年趕快審那明年 趕快這一個也跟在野黨的也能夠大家一起合作這裡就有一位在野黨的要拜託他好 那另外跟部長探討一下就是轉型正義教育的問題喔"},{"start":6737.573,"end":6759.393,"text":"這個行政院在2023年有韓班國家轉型正義教育行動綱領為期四年的這個管考計畫到今年2026年那這個轉型正義的教育隨著很多越來越多的研究啊口述歷史跟藝文的著作它教育的面向越來越多元也更加深入"},{"start":6760.094,"end":6783.661,"text":"比如說本席曾經向衛福部關心過的政治暴力創傷的療癒或者近期推動轉型正義匯報重視的戰後援助民族轉型正義的強化方案等等那在今年的2月26的行政院院會也特別宣示說要責成教育部啟動嚴定第二期的教育行動綱領那基本上這份到2026的行動綱領"},{"start":6788.522,"end":6810.019,"text":"是依據促轉會任務總結報告的各面向去編寫的這些教育議題總綱領裡面也有提到會由教育部來協同各面向的主辦機關來研編國家轉型正義教育行動綱領的實施指引來提供各機關來規劃專屬推動計畫跟訓練課程落實轉型教育"},{"start":6815.743,"end":6838.541,"text":"那這邊綱領今年就要到期那很可能就要來開始編寫下一個階段的這個轉型正義教育規劃所以除了本席剛剛提到的那兩個特定的議題以外那近期掀起很多的歷史補課潮啦那我們看到教育部做了這個補課專區那目前也正逐步在建置這個頁面那我想要請教育部長是說"},{"start":6839.622,"end":6867.159,"text":"下一份的綱領會加強辦理哪些教育部認為這四年還沒有落實的部分那另外比如說有可能是機關不配合轉型這個轉型正義的教育消極的配合這個國家的這個轉型教育的政策另外說其他我們還有一些新增什麼樣的內容我們要來深化國家的這個轉型正義教育部長好"},{"start":6870.875,"end":6896.965,"text":"謝謝委員關心轉型正義我想自由從來不是理所當然歷史可以被原諒但是不應該被遺忘那我們也知道有些歷史不是存在課本裡邊那也存在這塊土地的記憶中所以我們最近陳委員所關心的我們在今年年底就會把新的一個四年計畫就把它弄出來那過去呢我們確實在許多的那些"},{"start":6898.085,"end":6920.994,"text":"來自這塊土地的這些轉型正義我剛才講土地也保留了許多的歷史記憶我們開始鼓勵大學有這個透過USR去大手牽小手結合在地的文史工作者跟在地的相關的NGO團體民間團體去把這樣的一個轉型正義故事地圖開始實地去踏查透過教學透過戶外"},{"start":6922.234,"end":6944.194,"text":"戶外的一個教育裡面戶外的活動裡面開始去推動那另外呢從今年開始陳副委員剛才有看到我們大概每一個月會有一到兩期的短影音包含每一個月裡面有特定的來自因為過去白色恐怖的一個受難或者扼巴或者來自於譬如說下個月的沒有今天4月1號我講話是算數的"},{"start":6947.296,"end":6965.262,"text":"今天4月7號是言論自由日我們就會有一期這個短影音的言論自由的一個出來那類似這樣的一個東西包含實地的比如說我們也開始"},{"start":6965.962,"end":6981.089,"text":"跟我們報告我們的部會議已經在3月初禮兵我們部會議一起主管全部到這個景美的人權博物館去開部會議我們也開始校長老師學生開始陸續去鼓勵參觀這個"},{"start":6986.671,"end":7012.525,"text":"人權博物館或者是到立島裡面實際的像我們這個月就我會帶領我們的一級主管分兩梯次到立島裡面去真正的去理解過去在那一個危險的一個時代裡面我們怎麼樣從這裡邊去尋求這一個經驗然後避免要珍惜台灣的一個自由民主得來不易我想這個我們會全面的來做"},{"start":7013.906,"end":7028.659,"text":"真的非常肯定部長對於轉型正義教育的重視之所以那麼重要我覺得我們看看其他的國家像德國 波蘭你就可以感受到他們認真在做這個教育紮根的努力可是"},{"start":7029.56,"end":7052.189,"text":"要做事就要有人所以我還是很懇切的來請求這個部長這方面的專責人力應該要增編因為目前那個做轉型正義教育部這邊只有兩位所以我想說是不是也可以來增編那當然這個請您回去研議看看那可不可以在會後來回覆本席有回應跟委員報告我們確實也因為"},{"start":7054.97,"end":7075.564,"text":"這一個轉型正義裡面的業務量忽然可能這一個部長也這一個非常積極在推動所以我們人手確實有一些不足我們也跟人事總處這邊在積極在希望能夠透過這一個他們能夠獲得支持增加人力好好謝謝那加油啦"},{"start":7076.984,"end":7083.213,"text":"多增加一些人力才能把這事情做得更好謝謝部長 謝謝主席謝謝議級委員質詢部長請回座接下來請蔡春城委員質詢"},{"start":7103.004,"end":7106.867,"text":"主席我們請教育部的鄭部長請鄭部長"},{"start":7113.959,"end":7137.332,"text":"委員好部長好剛剛有很多委員都有提到都非常關心目前校園就是有一些問題譬如說教師方還有我們的校園的一個氛圍已經非常的不友善包括我們的孩子在協同有五個就有一個很想"},{"start":7139.753,"end":7152.801,"text":"不想上學然後有年紀關係的一個焦慮那在113年的教育部的一個校安通報那個學生的一個自殺率將近兩萬人那如果從106人到現在將近"},{"start":7159.4,"end":7179.382,"text":"成長了12倍這個數字是非常非常的驚人那今天呢我就要替這些焦慮的學生想自殺的學生還有剩下幸福感50分的老師來對我們教育部提出最沉重的一個呼籲"},{"start":7182.545,"end":7192.159,"text":"請問部長在這樣的一個狀況裡面部長你有沒有決心就是明年就能夠把教師的幸福感提升到60%"},{"start":7195.706,"end":7223.362,"text":"我想老師的幸福感當然有主客觀的一些感受但是怎麼樣提供老師讓他能夠更願意留在校園裡邊這讓他有覺得培養一起來大家一起來努力這個培養我們新世代的這個年輕小孩讓他們有一個更美好的未來的一個發展所以校園的負面不好是我們一直在努力的要怎麼樣努力"},{"start":7224.757,"end":7245.473,"text":"就像剛才委員所關心的我們把校士會議裡面造成老師無謂的壓力這些匿名的投訴我們把它拿掉了我們來調整老師的終點會老師的一些也許大家覺得好像力有未盡但是至少我們看到了一些我們從"},{"start":7246.494,"end":7271.007,"text":"他的薪資報酬的一些工作上的一些相對的一些帶也做了一些調整那我們也開始對偏鄉離島的老師我們開始這一個支持宿舍的整建或者蓋宿舍讓老師能夠有一個安穩的那個部長我了解希望這個決心能夠落實那就是在那個"},{"start":7273.308,"end":7275.349,"text":"檢察院也有調查出我們的一個輔導的機制輔導人力的不足輔導老師的一個行政負擔過重然後我們的輔導的一個銜接的機制也不流暢所以才會造成這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":7290.854,"end":7313.241,"text":"這個就是我們目前為什麼我們會有這麼多的學生不想上學然後壓力很大所以然後我們現在也有一個所謂的身心調試架這個身心調試架目前利用的沒有很多那請問各縣市有沒有掌握到這個城鄉的一個使用的統計差異"},{"start":7317.523,"end":7338.334,"text":"就是我想身心調適下確實是最近我們去年開始實施嘛高中生裡面已經有兩萬三千多的一個學生全國大概佔了將近5%將近5%的學生有用到這個身心調適下那後續呢如果這些學生有這樣的一個狀況學校有沒有做後續的一個輔導這是詳細我是請我們署長來補充說明"},{"start":7344.564,"end":7369.154,"text":"謝謝委員 跟委員補充兩點第一點 剛剛來部長所提的那個數據那是經過我們一學年的運作那第二點是這個有沒有要結合輔導機師當時的討論是如果太緊密結合學生會覺得他不過只是想要調適一下卻被拿來增加很多輔導機師他們會有顧慮而不敢申請所以這一點我們會用我們比較專業的輔導方式來協助謝謝"},{"start":7372.135,"end":7394.244,"text":"比較羅興的那最後呢我們現在明顯的就是說我們也可以講說我們的學校的氣候已經變天了這個是一個危機我們當然當然也是要非常的關心那我們這樣的一個情形壓力學生的壓力老師的壓力那這個危機會影響到我們未來的一個國家的競爭力那"},{"start":7400.326,"end":7423.246,"text":"請問部長 那我們又要如何來提升這樣的一個國家競爭力我想當然最基本的 因為台灣沒有天然資源 我們靠的就是人才所以每一個教育階段 把每一個小孩子 每一位學生把他教好我想這是最直接的一個提升國家競爭力最直接的一個方式"},{"start":7423.706,"end":7448.421,"text":"那剛剛部長還要講要調薪然後有種種的一些措施但是我要告訴部長不是你調了一千兩千那個植物價值調了一千兩千就能夠改變現在這個那個校園氣候不佳的一個狀況我想影響教師的一個工作滿意度影響的因素當然很多有時候他並不是不喜歡"},{"start":7449.562,"end":7474.095,"text":"但是他因為產業有更大的吸引力量包含我們師師的培育機制也改變過去我跟委員的年代是師大張師大高師大他們需要多少老師培養多少老師是公會的但是現在是儲備制所以變成有許多年間的生涯他當然原來他想要當老師生涯有可能改變這個狀況"},{"start":7476.756,"end":7504.267,"text":"我了解 但是現在問題就是老師呢 在學校為什麼不快樂 就是因為教師的一個尊嚴很低嘛然後呢 教育政策呢 常常改來改去啊還有就是最嚴重的就是我們學生的素質不好嘛這些都是對老師都是一個壓力然後呢 我還要再跟部長就是請教 就是有學校校長有跟我"},{"start":7505.888,"end":7524.051,"text":"提過在高中的時候早期就是有教官那現在教官已經退出校園了所以在管理學生的這個部分對給學校老師產生行政的一個壓力那當初這些教官要退出校園的時候有沒有做配套"},{"start":7524.451,"end":7548.511,"text":"沒有啊現在的所有的工作都留到給現任的那個老師增加這個壓力增加行政工作那我請教一下現在的那個校長每一次到下學期的時候要請行政人員來擔任行政工作的時候都找不到那這就是一個問題嘛就是給老師很大的一個壓力嘛那我們要如何的來"},{"start":7549.993,"end":7562.541,"text":"退出校園了那如何讓這個老師跟行政人員能夠分開來分治校園裡面有教官過世於世來自因為金正時期當然台灣隨著民主化的一個過程裡面對對對那現在我要問的那個部長是"},{"start":7566.264,"end":7594.78,"text":"你的配套配套配套的有校安人員的一個補助那另外國中原來沒有教官他是管理組長嘛在那個學務處的管理組長嘛當然每一個家每一個小孩都是家庭的寶也是台灣未來的希望所以我們在給小孩子有一個更好的一個發展的一個成長環境我們在國中也去年也補了600多位的這個校安人力去協助這一個"},{"start":7596.02,"end":7617.467,"text":"國中在許多的一些校園的一些這個更安全更友善的一個環境上的營造我們也希望不要讓老師兼太多的行政工作讓老師回歸在教學的部分讓他們能夠提升教學品質老師回到教學的本業這是對的"},{"start":7622.069,"end":7646.248,"text":"但是因為我們國民教育法裡邊開宗明義 國民教育就是培養德智體群美 五意均衡發展所以老師不是只有 特別在小學生這一個他不是只有學科的教學養老的情緒 人格 態度 生活 習慣的養成這個不可否認的當然是要前面的一個教育 這個沒有錯但是呢 我們就是說"},{"start":7648.311,"end":7663.801,"text":"最後能夠行政能夠專業化老師當然這個剛剛講的5億是老師的一個要教學的一個內容沒有錯行政工作能夠分治我希望我們能夠朝這樣的一個方向來走"},{"start":7664.702,"end":7681.896,"text":"也聽到第一層的這些老師的一些聲音所以我們在去年就把全面的檢討了我們這個目前對中小學老師地方到底要求什麼樣的許多的一些表格什麼樣的資料的申請我們大概150向里兵我們減少了將近70%就行政的減量我想"},{"start":7688.321,"end":7691.385,"text":"因為教育部開始在行政減量那地方縣市教育局處"},{"start":7708.669,"end":7733.961,"text":"有時候增加的時候他都算教育部的說教育部要求我想這也跟委員做這樣一個補充說好那最後呢我要跟部長分享的是說我們要有幸福的老師才能教出幸福的孩子那當學校的心理健康還有就是心理健康要落實那對學生的學習的一個成效呢才能夠有加成的一個效應"},{"start":7735.542,"end":7756.379,"text":"因此我們希望能夠將教師的幸福感還有心理健康教育能夠納入國家的一個品質關鍵的指標希望我們一起來努力今天我們有一些請教教育部的有順便一個計畫或報告也能夠送到本辦來"},{"start":7759.321,"end":7786.661,"text":"谢谢 谢谢委员关心也指正我想对老师怎么创造老师的幸福感我们一起努力这也是我们重要的我同意它是一个很重要的教育品质之一是 好 那我们一起努力好 谢谢好 谢谢蔡春桥委员的咨询请部长回座下一位有请陈秀宝委员那等一下吴思瑶委员寻到完毕之后我们休息五分钟秀宝委员请"},{"start":7793.345,"end":7795.586,"text":"教育部有透露將研議修改規定將毒品唾液篩檢"},{"start":7814.833,"end":7837.12,"text":"來引入校園希望可以改善傳統的尿檢法對於新興藥物像伊托米酯這樣子代謝比較快的毒品比較難用尿檢法檢出來這個問題我想請教部長目前有規劃具體的時程嗎後續這個毒品的唾液快篩要如何分配到學校我們如何執行是不是已經有開始討論了請部長說明一下"},{"start":7837.92,"end":7852.151,"text":"這次的公文報告我想這個引入快篩它確實是有助於讓我們及早發現學生的許多的一些不當的一些毒品的一些接觸那詳細的是不是我請我們學特斯"},{"start":7853.449,"end":7881.19,"text":"那請市長市長委員報告那因為那個毒品快篩的這個部分其實我們已經有在委託市長來幫我們修正相關的要點還有一些相關的一些補充的一些措施那這個部分我們也在跟內政部警政署有研議那有加入內政部警政署他的一些毒品快篩的共同採購契約那這部分我們是希望在今年的9月能夠上路那這個部分如果採購順利的話是希望9月可以上路這樣子"},{"start":7881.75,"end":7894.57,"text":"現在在九月剩下半年的時間所以你要如何執行 學校要如何配合包括相關的人力 包括對象 包括怎麼執行其實必須要有一個很具體的時程安排你們已經有這樣子具體的討論出來嗎"},{"start":7897.935,"end":7915.585,"text":"對這部分呢我們那個施大的研究案出來之後我們會就找各縣市然後會辦理相關的一些研析那第一線的一些教官還有校安人力可以知道說可以讓怎麼樣的運用這個毒品快篩的這個試劑那是不是說等你們整個的研究的這個"},{"start":7917.806,"end":7932.3,"text":"過程了解之後呢你們開始做討論跟縣市不管是教育局處或者是相關能力做這些相關的執行的討論的時候有進展請把你們的這個報告可以給我辦公室讓我了解說你們再來是怎麼做安排好嗎"},{"start":7933.582,"end":7952.299,"text":"好謝謝委員好那部長以後公民團體建業除了這個唾液的快篩之外呢也可以考慮配合第二層的檢測就是所謂的夜巷晨曦的串聯質譜讓這個快篩呢如果有偽陽性或是有爭議的時候呢可以做一些相關的這個依據部長您認為呢部長這一個部分確實是"},{"start":7959.586,"end":7975.834,"text":"這超乎我的專業的想像但是就快篩 拖曳的一個快篩對學校來講事實上是最方便但如果有一個更能夠更精這一個更好的一個方式我想這一個部分我們來看學生有沒有"},{"start":7976.619,"end":7990.984,"text":"跟委員報告 因為我們想要用那個快篩的步 推一快篩主要是因為因為那個像一坨米子這樣的一個新型肚皮這是第二層 對 它代謝很快 所以我們才用推一快篩但是推一快篩它只是快篩 所以"},{"start":7991.764,"end":8021.023,"text":"不管有没有实施快筛最后我们都还是要送尿检那尿检这个要一筛检这个才是最正确的部分所以快筛只是我们初步的一个快筛而已所以后面我们都还是会送尿检其实除了这个毒品的检验之外我们只是说对学生比较一个这样子的检测之外呢本席也认为说像图片中这样子的一些毒品食物展示向学生来宣导毒品的多变性也真的确实让学生可以对"},{"start":8021.603,"end":8041.804,"text":"類似的物品有警惕有警覺比較容易去辨識所以我希望教育部這邊可以多辦理類似這樣毒品宣導讓學生有警覺心那提高他們辨識就是毒品就是類似毒品的話我們就趕快去避免才能夠真正防止毒品進入校園那我想請問教育部你們可以安排這樣子類似的毒品宣導的課程"},{"start":8044.324,"end":8068.57,"text":"根文報告我們確實在宣導裡面事實上已經做到入班以目前來講114年我們總共有5702班直接到班上去做宣導那另外我們還有透過一些一教一樂的用戲劇的一些團體藝術團體到學校裡面去做反讀的一些宣導就是說我們事實上是多面向的"},{"start":8069.13,"end":8097.611,"text":"所以已經有在做其實本席也是支持也是肯定說這是有效果的也希望說這樣子的班次是不是才可以開更多我們除了有一些大規模的場合就是說已經做到入班然後還有音樂團體這個藝術團體這是對於校園的安全學生的安全還有來自影子我們企業界也關心這個他們也在許多許多的這一些民間的企業團體他們也幫忙在做這樣的一個宣導"},{"start":8098.612,"end":8103.234,"text":"我希望說在這個部分我們可以更積極謝謝部長接下來我們也是要關心學生權益的部分接下來是考試的部分我們108課綱為了要適應洋財在學測階段就將數學分流成數A跟數B一般就是我們區分成自然組跟社會組的學生來報考"},{"start":8121.161,"end":8126.826,"text":"但是我们根据这个统计资料显示呢这112的学测及113的学测分别有高达61.22%以及60.65%就超过六成的学生是数A数B都报考"},{"start":8137.654,"end":8157.154,"text":"那所以这也导致说社会主的学生可能会受到比较大的影响因为数A数B虽然说他命题及考试内容针对的部分是不太一样但是其实数B大部分的考题是可以用数A的这个逻辑观念来解题的那自然主的学生呢他可以相对来讲是觉得是比较简单的来跨考"},{"start":8157.935,"end":8179.828,"text":"那造成說社會主的學生恐怕會面臨更大的競爭跟壓力而且很多學生他是要考量說未來在大學校系可能希望可以有更多的選擇所以呢他們都會數A數B全包所以導致說學生他要花更多的時間來學兩套考試的內容更多時間來準備甚至需要另外去補習我想請教部長"},{"start":8182.83,"end":8190.49,"text":"您覺得說數A數B的分流上我們是不是可以有更妥善的做法來降低社會主學生所受到的影響"},{"start":8191.97,"end":8217.089,"text":"謝謝委員這個議題其實本來就是我們當初的一個設計的利益就是能夠視性選才每一個學生高中生也開始去思考他的一個生涯的一個發展走向早期是只有一個數學不管你要選人文社會或者理工全部都是一個數學現在把它分流就是希望說學生能夠本以他的一個興趣來發展"},{"start":8217.91,"end":8236.13,"text":"但是有超過六成對 但是現在這個變成有六成這個部分我想我們會我們再來看怎麼樣去兼顧學生的生涯發展又能夠讓這個這個秩序上的資料的選擇裡面因為其實108課綱這個多元學型適性發展本身也是認同的"},{"start":8240.435,"end":8253.59,"text":"但是我們要重視到不同類組學生的權益這麼高比例的跨考其實跟我們108課剛這個事情發展我們要做數學分流這樣的初中本意是背道而馳的"},{"start":8254.724,"end":8278.462,"text":"本來分流還有一個包含他學習過程裡面他能夠因為分流讓他有更好的學習他就可以轉到A的這個A班嘛部長 超過六成耶所以這個跟我們本來的本意我覺得是沒有做到位而且反而增加學生的壓力我們來跟等於說一線上的部長"},{"start":8279.483,"end":8297.919,"text":"其實很多學生家長有希望說那你既然分數A跟數B你就同堂考試你不要分堂嘛那讓你要選擇的學生你就很確認很正確的去選擇你要數A或數B然後擇一應考這樣的方式可以嗎"},{"start":8299.574,"end":8314.868,"text":"這個我想我們還是來研究因為確實在民主的一個寶貴的精神就是多元那我們學生他事實上是有多項的一個興趣如果你一定要用一刀兩切的一個方式我想這個我們會後我們來研議"},{"start":8317.771,"end":8344,"text":"剛才本席所說的其實你這麼高比例的跨考跟你本來要做分流的這個初中就本來就一看就知道說跟你本來這個好意學生在他選擇上來講並沒有照著你們所想的這樣去做他兩組都要考兩套教材他們都要準備那當然對理科的學生來講他的理解力這樣子來考兩組的考試他可能就覺得沒有那麼負擔我同意當然如果在數學他本來就是比較優"},{"start":8348.442,"end":8368.504,"text":"這個學習比較好的他確實在考數B的時候是比較駕輕就熟的那對只選擇數B的學生他也不得不去選擇數A但是他沒有這個優勢啊因為其實一般念文組的學生他本來在這個理科的這個理解力或者是他在這個數學的運算能力可能就沒有數理科的這麼強"},{"start":8369.545,"end":8391.483,"text":"那這樣相對下來會造成他們的壓力跟他們的負擔所以這個部分我希望教育部你們這邊可以研議相關的配套而且兩個月之內你把你們的書面報告我們來看怎麼考召的制度能夠更精進我們在會後再跟委員做報告好 就麻煩部長了 謝謝好 謝謝陳秀寶委員的質詢 請部長回座接下來有請吳思瑤委員質詢 請"},{"start":8404.831,"end":8414.325,"text":"谢谢主席有请郑部长请郑部长备询今天的主题跟高教跟国教都有关系很好"},{"start":8415.297,"end":8436.469,"text":"大家辛苦那今天我剛剛有聽到林議警委員也針對轉型正義有提出他的一些觀點那我希望也能夠補強一些我給教育部的建議轉型正義就要從教育下手教育部是主角而不是配角我們除了頒布了行動綱領我們的行動更要具體化"},{"start":8438.09,"end":8440.212,"text":"轉型正義就在我們每一天的生活裡"},{"start":8467.97,"end":8485.028,"text":"那吳思瑤跟你一樣啦只是你比我高一級你是已經認列為台獨的頑固分子那吳思瑤現在只是台獨的打手幫兇也就是我在幫助你這樣子你會怕嗎?中國對你的跨境鎮壓"},{"start":8490.152,"end":8508.297,"text":"會怕嗎我無憂無懼無憂無懼因為您是優雅的台灣人對於壞鄰居冠上的名稱你會一笑置之而且會更秉持著教育基本法我們培育人才推動愛台灣的愛國教育守護台灣的民主自由吳思耀跟你一樣"},{"start":8509.517,"end":8521.667,"text":"有一天如果我也能夠榮登跟您榜上列在一起我會覺得更大的光榮我會持續的努力但是從這件事情下一頁搭配著現在轉型正義"},{"start":8522.878,"end":8548.07,"text":"的一個特快車我認為我們教育部就應當借力使力跟上這一股的熱潮搭上這班列車轉型正義是全台灣公民的民主的補課我們需要更多覺醒的賈永傑那教育部是主角不是配角雖然我知道你們剛剛說你只有兩個人力我們來看怎麼做好下一頁國際是這樣做的"},{"start":8550.791,"end":8568.044,"text":"德國呢他們用追討回來的不義黨產大概40億來成立了一個評估的委員會他們的做法是設立圖書館展示文物他們支持公司裡的文化事物包括各類的出版跟展覽"},{"start":8568.965,"end":8586.207,"text":"他們當然也鼓勵非常多的寫作他們也進行國際合作他們更提供學術的補助以及設獎學金你可以想想我們哪裡沒做到所以我說這裡有高教的工作也有國教的工作好 下一頁"},{"start":8587.268,"end":8602.429,"text":"加拿大他们的转型正义是对原住民族的历史的平反所以不外乎是针对原住民族受迫害的那些受迫害的那一段的历史真相呢来强化教育他的做法也是给补助"},{"start":8603.09,"end":8622.313,"text":"然後呢要從課程來進行教學不外乎都是這些做法看看波蘭喔波蘭是更生活化的他們設計非常多生活化的桌遊跟教具然後呢這個國家記憶研究院其實就等同於我們過去現在退場的促轉會一樣"},{"start":8623.374,"end":8643.022,"text":"会定期提供学校出版品举办教师的研习活动而且来进行受难者的访谈现身说法这更有说服力然后进行全国性的展览我用这些国际例子是让您想一想我们还有哪些可以做更多下一页"},{"start":8644.042,"end":8670.287,"text":"我在促進轉型正義條例2016修法的時候吳思瑤的版本就是把促轉基金追討回來的不義黨產除了國家原始的用途要用在長照跟社福之外我把它增加可以用在人權教育跟轉型正義相關的文化事務所以我們要爭取這個促轉基金的使用"},{"start":8671.047,"end":8695.856,"text":"而促轉會退場之後呢教育部就應當跟跨部會一起來進行合作教育部當然是人權教育為主但我們應當跟文化部保存的不義遺址或政治檔案的研究多多合作我都提點到這裡下頁我們的這個馬上要到期的轉型正義的行動剛臨"},{"start":8698.171,"end":8720.808,"text":"到2026年2023到2026年是第一期請問你們有第二階段嗎跟委員報告有的我們這一個豬市長他現在在統合會有第二階段非常好那我希望未來也建議主席我們能夠有轉型正義的專報所以有2.0對不對確定會有是幾年期的呢市長"},{"start":8722.898,"end":8734.068,"text":"跟委員報告我們是明年開始是4年4年4上1 1 6好 那預算呢但是我們用1加4的方式我們今年就會先超過好 那預算也多少足夠嗎"},{"start":8735.236,"end":8742.44,"text":"原則上我們會再申請促轉基金的協助但是教育部也會允許我們一些給我們機會的相關資料允許後來跟我說一個你們的新的規劃好嗎那我希望您能夠納入我剛剛的一些國際經驗我現在要分享給部長給次長的就是不用怕雖然只有兩個人力我覺得不夠啦還是要擴編啦"},{"start":8755.788,"end":8782.086,"text":"但是跨部会的下手合作以及跟公司合作其实是一个很好建立实力的方法因为民间非常多这样子的NGO我们可以去合作下一页我提供您几个建议第一个国教端鼓励教案的多元开发融入课程第二个跨部会plus公司协力来提出多元的活动"},{"start":8782.927,"end":8805.235,"text":"第三結合沉浸式的體驗教育就是現在文化部教育部在做很多文化體驗的課程把它搭配進去而且要注意是現地的教學on-site learning這是國教端我的三個期許而高教端呢我更鼓勵我們現在的大學部分學校有針對轉型正義有通識課程我認為可以鼓勵"},{"start":8808.976,"end":8829.705,"text":"以及我們可以鼓勵這方面的研究設立獎學金也是一個可以的方向我的這些中整的意見請問朱次長對於通識教育還有設轉學獎學金來鼓勵轉型正義的學術領域的研究可以參採吧"},{"start":8832.012,"end":8848.304,"text":"跟委員報告委員剛才所提的不管從國際的一個經驗到國教端跟高教端都這個深化這個轉型正義都非常具體可行我想我們會把它納入2.0納入2.0的這個轉型正義的一個綱好我最後有三頁很簡單就安你們的心你們可以在現有少少的人力當然我希望擴充人力跟能量好下一頁怎麼做呢"},{"start":8859.311,"end":8877.354,"text":"這些人權故事車去巡迴校園 吳思瑤也爭取了到北投的學校人權故事的展覽還有舞台劇 這個很好 校園在巡迴人權素養的教具箱有非常多元的教具還有"},{"start":8878.055,"end":8897.184,"text":"下面这个桌游的开发台湾文学馆做的以上这四个事情其实都是文化部在做文化部的文化馆社在做你们要跟他们搭上线人权叫故事车多来一些学校对不对人权故事行动的舞台剧或是展览多去我们的下乡"},{"start":8898.625,"end":8922.712,"text":"這些多元的桌遊課程都可以跟這些人權館或文學館來合作這些是不用你們的人甚至不用太多你們的錢搭便車好嗎然後促轉會過去也有非常多的當事人入校的一個分享這些我們都是跨部會可以搭便車的在下一頁"},{"start":8923.852,"end":8938.364,"text":"這些是現有的課程我們都有各校的文化美感的教學這是融入課程的我建議過去都去很多兩廳院故宮北美館高美館衛武營都很好"},{"start":8939.045,"end":8961.191,"text":"融入对于人权管或者是不义移植都是扩充这些选项而已不用花太多钱直接纳入就好on-site learning是UNESCO定定最有效的遗产教育的方式好最后一个这个也是刚刚讲有很多管所"},{"start":8962.111,"end":8984.262,"text":"其實人權管是我們要擴大合作的單位我過去歷次 當然我是這一次在兩年後再回到教育文化委員會這是我2023整理的資料我們讓學生的校外教學前進人權管是逐年遞減的我不知道為什麼 這是2023的統計搭上這一股台灣的公民的民主補課"},{"start":8986.044,"end":9009.294,"text":"其实你不用有这些大家现在都去看自由的花蕊大家都去人权管但是教育部的责任教育部是主角不是配角对于人权管跟不义移植的这些融入校外教学的选择我们真的可以来推广出去我提供的这些建议都是在现在只有两个人力的状况之下马上就可以做的"},{"start":9009.774,"end":9038.675,"text":"至於如何去擴充extend 2.0的部分我希望後續還有時間跟大家做更多元的討論但是不要忘了不是只有國教高教有相當大的責任好不好我今天提供給我們台獨頑固分子鄭英耀部長我們就要做更多當我們被中國鎖定我們代表我們做對了很多事我們毫無恐懼好所以我們都可以走了"},{"start":9039.721,"end":9057.726,"text":"感謝委員的一個指導我想我們都非常的一個具體也是我們很多東西跟我們目前的規劃方向是一樣包含高等教育裡面我們怎麼樣去創新教學計畫裡面就把它融入或者大學的USR我想我們會前面來很好USR是可以擴大的我們後續希望能夠有這樣的專題分享我們來進一步研議USR非常好我倒還沒有納入我們可以來做謝謝"},{"start":9068.709,"end":9073.375,"text":"謝謝吳斯堯委員的質詢請部長回座我們現在休息五分鐘謝謝"},{"start":9165.249,"end":9167.828,"text":"現在我就給他換了還是有還是有我給他放這裡好了"},{"start":9386.611,"end":9412.131,"text":"現在繼續開會 下一位有請葛如軍委員進行詢答好 謝謝主席 有請教育部鄭義耀部長好 請鄭義耀部長上備詢台 謝謝"},{"start":9418.499,"end":9435.755,"text":"委員好部長好剛剛有提到台獨頑固分子我想沒有AI主權就沒有獨立主權我想AI的人才技術真的是下一個世代最重要的也包括教育部長不知道有沒有看過周星馳的電影"},{"start":9436.856,"end":9456.812,"text":"我是星爺的粉絲在電影《九品芝麻官》裡面有一句非常經典的台詞拿明朝的劍斬清朝的官我看到部長你都在笑顯然你可能也是粉絲我至少看過這部片用來比喻舊時代的制度來治理新時代的現象這邏輯是荒謬而且語法無據的部長"},{"start":9457.552,"end":9476.907,"text":"既然不能用明朝的建來展清朝的官為什麼我們可以用3G時代所制定的課綱來教育5G的孩子呢我想部長您的笑容怎麼臉上消失了這真的很不好笑而且非常離譜當3G的時代的通信已經在2024年6月30號已經全面在台灣關閉以後"},{"start":9478.368,"end":9493.437,"text":"同個年代的產物也就是108課綱仍然被奉為台灣中小學教育的閨念本席一直向來都非常關心台灣數位科技教育的推展那部長啊我也必須要非常感念您啊2024年的7月份呢對於108課綱的說法說"},{"start":9498.223,"end":9518.961,"text":"明確地講法律沒有明確規定每十年要大改一次因此沒有118課綱但是會對於科技領域的課綱進行局部微調加入AI以及數學學習的內容這是您的原話結果將近兩年的時間過去直到今天我們登上國教院的網站科技領域的課綱"},{"start":9519.662,"end":9534.899,"text":"依然是107年就是2018年9月份所制定的3G時代的東西部長承諾的AI以及數學學習的部分目前只聞樓梯響部長 近來有很多科技大廠就在呼籲人才 人才 人才"},{"start":9535.64,"end":9561.893,"text":"能源能源能源那能源呢我們也看到賴清德總統已經說要從幾何店要願意放下神主牌人才的部分我們則沒有看到教育部有任何的回應甚至前幾天公平會來公布深層市人工智慧報告明確指出業界普遍認為台灣現階段人才培育速度難以跟上需求請教部長教育部何時能夠完成科技領域課綱的微調"},{"start":9564.091,"end":9580.166,"text":"跟委員報告 確實在這個AI的一個時代裡邊我們一直 我們看在108客康裡邊它就有科技領域 科技水養是 要微調嘛對不起 我時間很有限你不要再重複我的問題我問你什麼時候可以完成啦"},{"start":9581.192,"end":9602.281,"text":"我們現在就在做我們現在的課程從課程教學跟老師的真容我們現在事實上都一直在做那什麼時候嘛我就說什麼時候做到什麼時候啊因為108課綱是科技素養嘛在科技素養裡面就直接我們就談AI不再談3G了好那我們就來看先看教育部的回文說108課綱"},{"start":9605.895,"end":9628.326,"text":"據前瞻性已經可以將世界趨勢產業發展大陸學生的學習本部未維持現行課綱的穩定性沒有要修改也沒有要微調啊部長這是2026年的教育部要打臉你2024年的正部長嗎還是您底下的這些同仁陽奉陰違不遵守部長微調108課長的指示呢"},{"start":9629.416,"end":9645.508,"text":"我想這裡邊可能當時話沒有講清楚跟我很抱歉因為主要在科技素養裡邊本來我們過去可能是教教這個PE2但是現在我們實際就進AI就是說同樣都是一個進AI我們現在講的是課綱啦我們現在講課綱啦課綱有沒有AI"},{"start":9650.413,"end":9677.128,"text":"很前瞻性嘛 前瞻性啊哇 又前瞻性又有世界趨勢好 那我來請教部長你說我們有科技領域課綱嘛 對不對有前瞻嘛 AI嘛 請部長猜一下這本課綱從頭到尾出現過幾次人工智慧 幾次AI 知不知道很前瞻嘛 世界趨勢嘛 出現幾次這麼重要的文件"},{"start":9678.464,"end":9706.496,"text":"部長竟然沒有概念啊科技領域的中等學校的課綱出現幾次人工智慧答案部長不知道對不對跟我們報告這個幾次真的我不曉得這一本課綱啊從頭到尾只出現過一次啦只有一次四個字就是人工智慧這樣更誇張的AI這兩個字啊完全沒有提啊所以我們的學生在學的時候到底AI人工智慧"},{"start":9707.543,"end":9722.494,"text":"完整的理念是完全不足的早在2016年谷歌的人工智慧就已經在棋盤上面委員是這一個領域的專家當然我們教育部如果有不足的歡迎委員跟我來做專業的指導我現在就點出問題嘛我現在點出問題我們一起來解決啦"},{"start":9725.856,"end":9748.871,"text":"那現在我們其實看到這個真的不能再怠惰下去了我們真的是希望贏回2024年的鄭部長啊我們真的應該要趕快微調了不要再只是講我們有在做什麼時候我們現在部長您看啊兩任兩本是前任部長一本是您啊這個AI指引嘛用普丁的方式在搞我們的AI教育這樣夠嗎"},{"start":9750.572,"end":9777.649,"text":"我想這可能還是完全不夠的真的能讓學生認識AI 了解AI 善用AI嗎那我們認為啦AI還有所謂AI素養數位素養都完全不夠課綱裡面對AI的描述也完全不足那我想要考一下這個部長啊數位世界裡面的數位素養要去理解它 學習它大家常用emoji來這個社群互動啊部長看一下很好的範例喔這個女星安海社會開通最帳號啦前"},{"start":9779.671,"end":9789.681,"text":"總統蔡英文底下留言三個小圖示部長可不可以幫忙我們全國的資深翻譯一下這三個小圖示是什麼意思看一下部長您的素未素養"},{"start":9795.593,"end":9820.35,"text":"請委員指導這一題我是讓分耶 這個很簡單 你看那個主席都在笑了我很佩服啊 蔡前總統的小編太厲害 這個叫做真羨慕啦很羨慕的意思啦安海社會的那個真羨是脆的意思啦 這串在一起的意思沒有關係 這個梗就是樹為樹養的一部分啦那我覺得有人會不知道 有人會知道"},{"start":9821.03,"end":9828.952,"text":"也許我們下一步 部長我們也可以來補充一下那也再做一下測驗啦這個emoji是什麼意思左邊是什麼翻譯一下這沒有陷阱啦 部長就是你現在的表情啦笑啦 開心啦中間呢 中間翻譯成中文是什麼也是笑 喜極而泣"},{"start":9848.644,"end":9863.613,"text":"笑到掉眼淚好啦可以啦笑哭啦那第三個是什麼這比較難了這比較難了試試看倒立著笑是不是笑翻過來也不錯很有創意"},{"start":9865.243,"end":9892.763,"text":"這叫陰陽怪氣的意思啦部長我們用這個賴總統尷尬又不失禮貌的微笑來這個對您的程度我只能給你這樣的一個微笑啦那我們在看AI素養數位素養我再請部長看一段影片判斷一下這是不是AI偽造的訊息美國第一夫人梅蘭妮與AI機器人一同亮相的影片就在白宮啊白宮的背景啊"},{"start":9894.235,"end":9922.02,"text":"部長 你覺得這是AI偽造的假影片嗎確實現在的假影片確實是這是真的還假的啦 部長部長很好 我覺得部長這個精神很棒要很仔細看才能回答 沒錯這要給部長一個肯定我跟部長報告啦這是 要不要說一下嘛"},{"start":9924.38,"end":9941.23,"text":"您是你不行啊部長你這樣子不能逃避寫答案的那個責任這您像我質詢您要回答好不好我同意我一定遵照委員的意思來辦來做沒有啦沒關係部長說不出來沒關係啦因為委員是理業的專家我不敢在委員的面前部長"},{"start":9942.752,"end":9956.073,"text":"對 謝謝 謝謝沒有沒有 大家都不夠專家我們AI時代所有人都在同一條起跑線上所以要教育部拜託要讓我們在新的起跑線上讓所有的學生都要能夠往前衝這部影片是真的"},{"start":9957.194,"end":9980.21,"text":"為什麼?因為他的這個帳號是有一個金色勾勾Twitter2022年就發布了金色勾勾就是企業的帳號而這個影像完全是真實的AI時代不是只是手機裡面的AI是走出來了走在白宮裡面啊結果我們的課綱科技領域隊人工智慧提到一次四個字人工智慧懂不懂啊部長"},{"start":9981.611,"end":9996.746,"text":"這種科技教育原地踏步我想不是只是您在這裡說委員我尊重我謝謝您的精神但要take actionaction talks louder than words好不好拜託我們事實上現在有規劃了一個未來人才AI的能力圖像"},{"start":9999.414,"end":10025.3,"text":"好啦我知道部長您自己也有點要笑哭了啦這個我們都知道同仁也很努力不夠好不好真的不夠這個稿子我都知道同仁準備很努力真的不夠啦課綱微調好不好課綱科技的部分的微調2024年的您不要打臉2024年的你自己啦那最後我爭取一點時間啦其實芬蘭有一些例子我希望教育部的同仁可以去研議啦"},{"start":10026.38,"end":10051.472,"text":"他接下來要強調數位參與權要作為基本公民權每個人都要有平等使用AI的機會目標很具體喔住在偏鄉的阿嬤都要懂AI這是芬蘭部長本席先前有提醒過教育部AI要大力推廣而且要在終身教育全面的推廣上次質詢完以後教育部有沒有加強終身教育階段的AI教育資源"},{"start":10052.757,"end":10077.831,"text":"這個確實我們在中生教育這個社區大學裡邊我們也請這個中生師能夠跟社區大學裡邊能夠管開類似的一些AI科技教育的部分就是科技教育我們現在事實上我也去看了這個彰化的一個社區大學裡邊我們看到一個80歲的女士也在操作"},{"start":10078.311,"end":10105.956,"text":"這是很好的很好的例子謝謝教育部但是本席也整理過了台灣的學生或者所有人最常使用的AI工具要錢的對吧有20美金的600塊台幣的有6000塊台幣的知行要合一我謝謝有提供知的教育知道但是用付費的跟付很貴的費用的到底差在哪裡學生有沒有那個能力去知道"},{"start":10107.145,"end":10109.875,"text":"有沒有這個能力知道我想這一個當然"},{"start":10111.175,"end":10136.684,"text":"老師在上課的其實怎麼樣去做那老師有沒有辦法報帳去付錢去教學有沒有這樣的預算跟我們報告當我們這一個這一個AI這一個方舟人才培育計畫我們確實考慮到是不是在老師的教學裡面也能夠有一些部分的經費的一些補助太好了太好了我們確實是有這樣對已經在討論這一個議題"},{"start":10140.205,"end":10145.912,"text":"好 要做好不好不要我們每次問AI的時候再討論你2024年討論到現在了我們當然中央跟地方來合作看怎麼樣能夠因為老師在交接時他會用到這個附會的軟體"},{"start":10155.783,"end":10170.88,"text":"部長你們的高度還是很重要啦先前我們曾經引用Global AI Index台灣賣AI全球第一用AI全球第二十一遠遠落後新加坡日本韓國啦我這都已經倒背如流了部長文化部的文化幣是很棒的政策"},{"start":10171.877,"end":10192.343,"text":"教育部有沒有辦法研議AIB我們已經講了一整年了啦剛剛提到的偏鄉阿嬤用AIB可以來用付費的AI老師可以用AIB來教學生學生可以用AIB來體驗付費的AI跟沒付費的差別在哪這也是學習對AIB發放進程有沒有什麼具體的進展"},{"start":10194.731,"end":10214.311,"text":"最後我想我們內部我們來討論這個我們會持續跟同仁保持緊密的聯繫我想主席也會認同這真的太重要那我最後給部長一個非常重要的idea這是open source的idea 開源的部長我們研議內部做了很多討論教育部所屬的圖書館"},{"start":10216.288,"end":10241.13,"text":"可不可以率先做起成為台灣數位平權的領頭羊管管有AI這不是只是喊話而已圖書館裡面的電腦可不可以有AI訂閱的服務可不可以訂20塊美金的可不可以訂200塊美金的只要你有一個借書證你可以去使用這台電腦你可以體驗一下付費的AI畫出來的圖字都不會歪"},{"start":10242.131,"end":10262.473,"text":"付費的AI畫出來的寫出來的文章它可以教導我很多的知識呢AI就像一個有汪洋大海的圖書館而且它還可以跟你一起協作管管有AI的目標讓教育部所屬的圖書館成為台灣民眾接觸先進科技的平台的第一站跟媒介有沒有機會"},{"start":10264.096,"end":10291.101,"text":"有沒有機會部長這idea真的很棒謝謝委員這一個非常專業也非常良善的一個建議我想我們來做太讚了部長可不可以在一個月內將相關研議結果書面提供給本席初步就好了一個月真的因為AI真的走得很快我們糧食廠來跟委員來做報告最後我今天真的非常感謝主席願意讓我借用這麼多的時間我最後要跟部長分享"},{"start":10292.401,"end":10307.8,"text":"芬蘭真的例子可以參考其實那個觀光有AI他們也在做部分我們一定可以做得比他更好那因為為什麼每一個AI的晶片都台灣在賣的嘛我們應該要讓台灣的每一個孩子都更加的能夠使用到AI那還有一個很重要的議題啦"},{"start":10308.661,"end":10329.356,"text":"芬蘭不僅一己之力躍升AI科技強國並且大力推廣免費的政府做的免費的AI線上課程叫Elements of AI他除了加會他自己本國的國名還把這個課程免費送給歐盟所以現在歐洲很多國家170個國家透過200萬人的超過200萬人透過這個平台來瞭解AI部長"},{"start":10334.5,"end":10354.057,"text":"全球有12到14億的人口使用中文那當然我們美麗的繁中也是有很多人在使用那今天教育部有沒有辦法抓緊時機讓14億人利用繁體中文的教材來學習AI我們最了解AI我們中華民國我們台灣是最了解AI的"},{"start":10355.066,"end":10370.774,"text":"要了解AI 看台灣要了解AI 看台灣的繁體中文我看到官員也都點頭了這個我們有沒有辦法更積極呀來推動一個真正的AI教程可以跟課綱為調一起進行好不好 有沒有辦法有開麥嗎"},{"start":10380.029,"end":10388.291,"text":"AI人才方舟計畫我們就會做這一個事情我想我們一起來研議部長AI發展一日千里"},{"start":10389.437,"end":10409.856,"text":"希望教育部可以发AI币这是民进党执政有可能一个非常重要的得证我们也不分党派我们也赞美文化币我们也赞美运动币可是人才教育AI的对接小米社会的断层促进数位的平权提升科技的禁用这是不分党派的"},{"start":10410.636,"end":10430.629,"text":"內容教育的提升14億中文人口學習AI的機會就掌握在部長您的手上好不好這一點我們希望一起來努力提升我們台灣在AI世界的話語權好 謝謝謝謝AI立委葛如君委員的豐富質詢請部長回座接下來有請謝龍介委員質詢"},{"start":10445.427,"end":10458.954,"text":"主席我請補充有請部長雙倍訊臺補充你好請教這個老師越來越會你跟這個砍公教退休金有關嗎陳佩玉說沒有啦我相信你教書出身的你有很多同學"},{"start":10471.718,"end":10482.325,"text":"你的同僚都有這個感受這是一個事實 但是這已經過去的事情就是說以前我們總有算一條七千多億到一條九千億說未來災情會很困難所以請大家共體時間來檢驗一些退休金運動機時也同意"},{"start":10496.235,"end":10507.54,"text":"結果不知道現在變三成了,民進黨說他接種了不錯,災情越來越好,一年比一年好,結果同期時間,台北市的角度都不一樣所以這點是很重要的原因,所以今天修法,你如果拿不出對策,他們會說種的不白,聽的到六倍,那是不好的,要對症下藥"},{"start":10523.531,"end":10541.791,"text":"當受治療比喻擁護啊老師基本上不會受到紊亂又不能退休又沒辦法有保障什麼人要做老師啊回到同期時的你啦現在的你跟同期時的你那現在的你 你是不可能再去做老師啊 覺得是這樣"},{"start":10543.831,"end":10552.434,"text":"跟委員報告喔 我真的客人比較浪漫 比較熱情喔我對高雄 一直都有興趣抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉"},{"start":10560.177,"end":10568.181,"text":"因為我不是吃不飽,因為我們現在就是說,我們對老師當然要怎麼提升他的一些服務代表我看你剛才的報告,靠靠想想都AI,不然那個AI的立委一直問你,我只會把他當,對不對越說越久,你這個AI如果沒電就AI了"},{"start":10583.24,"end":10589.183,"text":"台灣的電力 河河山重啟 這是正確的你的AI講那些 我來問看看我伺候一下請問你對於中華民國教育部對學生所規劃的AI學習課程有什麼看法來"},{"start":10612.586,"end":10631.454,"text":"他說我先用實際這個政策實際在教什麼,我的評價是優點跟問題,我幫你評價優點,跟總結來回答,第一教育部目前AI課程在教什麼,我來重點拆解,不錯耶,他說大致可以分三層,看你們會不會有問題"},{"start":10637.165,"end":10650.681,"text":"基礎成AI素養 中小學為主 認識AI是什麼 怎麼運作 理解AI在生活中的應用 學習判斷譬如用AI做語言學習 寫作輔助 練習辨識AI產生的"},{"start":10655.424,"end":10681.932,"text":"不是工程師也要懂AI啦 這是你的核心目標第二個 應用層就是跨域加上問題解決的課程核心這是你們的規則裡面教育部強調 學生要用AI處理真實問題培養解決問題跟跨域能力第三 就是進階層專業的AI課程大概就是高中大學"},{"start":10683.656,"end":10702.835,"text":"課程 程式設計 機器學習 自然語言處理跨校AI課程 甚至可以拿證書第四 教學上的一個關鍵改變好 第二 現在Chap TV已經說了我對這套AI課程的看法"},{"start":10704.96,"end":10728.177,"text":"優點我認為做得不錯是課程設計是未來導向而不是工具導向所以給你額熱的啦但是台灣課程在做的是理解AI 應用AI批判AI啦這對你來講是比較成熟跨域跨域的部分設計是正確方向再來現在他說你的問題在哪裡"},{"start":10733.715,"end":10761.622,"text":"第一 課程理念很好 但是很難教要會AI 要會設計問題要會引導討論 現實是不是每個老師都準備好了我現在要大家問的呢第二 學生容易學到表面使用 不是深度理解"},{"start":10763.035,"end":10785.555,"text":"譬如會用AI寫報告 但不知道AI怎麼錯了這是你現在面臨的問題如果沒有設計好 學生會變成AI操作員 而不是思考者我感覺不中 他把你寫得這麼有道理第三 評量方式跟不上你的課程"},{"start":10787.882,"end":10799.07,"text":"現在的課程在教創造力問題解決但是考試還是標準答案跟背誦這會導致一個矛盾課堂一套考試又是另外一套"},{"start":10800.103,"end":10819.925,"text":"哇 差這麼多 第四 課程可能會過度樂觀AI目前很多課程AI很好用 AI幫助學習 但比較少強調他的偏誤跟幻覺以及過度依賴 會讓學生低估了風險他給你一個比較直接的結論"},{"start":10822.256,"end":10847.263,"text":"這套AI課程在理念上是先進的,但在學習深度上有相當的風險講白一點,教學方向,教對方向就是跨域加素養加應用但不一定學得深,容易流於工具使用阿伯有說,如果你叫他幫你升級,他會有三件事,你自己去問AI"},{"start":10849.059,"end":10851.606,"text":"你覺得他告訴你,昨天現在的情況有接近嗎?"},{"start":10856.065,"end":10863.752,"text":"謝謝委員,真的這個GPT真的很厲害因為我們現在面臨的挑戰,老師我們目前有參加過AI的研習,重慶五萬人但是我們所有的老師二十萬人我再給你一個建議,因為我們現在的問題大家都會去問AI"},{"start":10879.747,"end":10902.361,"text":"你現在課程怎麼樣啊 那我建議你再多問幾個啦多問幾個平台 綜合這些答案 然後針對你現在對AI所提出來的課程給各級學校 大家共同 我覺得他講得很客觀喔你的問題跟你的優點都有了 然後改進方向也有了"},{"start":10903.511,"end":10924.564,"text":"這就是你剛才說他厲害嘛 但是你必須要接納他嘛如果你不接納他 你只想當一個操作者最後你就會像他剛剛講的一樣嘛不管部長也好 委員也好 學生也好我們都要自己去思考我們要運用AI不是只把它當成工具 好不好是好 謝謝我看他們委員都完全一敵了恭喜委員提起"},{"start":10930.848,"end":10952.789,"text":"好我們也特別謝謝台南點子王謝龍介委員的AI質詢請部長回座下一位我們有請陳培宇委員詢答請好謝謝主席部長是不是喝個水休息一下嗎那一樣要有請部長"},{"start":10967.343,"end":10969.084,"text":"好有請部長謝謝好請鄭部長備詢請委員好"},{"start":10977.694,"end":10991.833,"text":"我们来看第一个新闻我们感到很纳闷我们看到有相关的新闻报道说国立台中科技大学为什么要强调国立呢教育部你们的主管业务你们是他们主管我想问一下"},{"start":10992.193,"end":11012.135,"text":"相關的報導我們後來詢問了教育部問說這個校長到中國去申請補助這件事情有沒有報請教育部同意教育部給我們辦公室的回函說得非常的模糊你們只告訴我相關法規但是你們沒有告訴我台中科大目前的說法是什麼"},{"start":11012.836,"end":11034.219,"text":"第二个他当时参选的时候他必须要交一些书面资料就是他到底有没有到中国大陆地区去从事交流呢或者是他有没有去中国大陆地区做一些讲座啦那他哪一些沟有哪一些沟没有我相信你们手上有资料但是我在看你们给我回复的资料我觉得非常的荒谬到底有没有"},{"start":11034.839,"end":11043.924,"text":"說不清楚相關的法規其實規定的很清楚但是到底這個學校現況如何那教育部接下來如何問責跟確認相關事情到底是不是屬實"},{"start":11045.217,"end":11071.281,"text":"跟委員報告因為這個台中科大陳校長的這一件案例因為經媒體揭露我們教育部自己指示已經行文要學校把所有的對外界的一個指控要這個先說明清楚等於說要回覆教育部然後我們再根據他的一個回覆我們會到現場裡面再去做實地的一些這個調查了解"},{"start":11072.422,"end":11077.168,"text":"我目前行政程序目前是已經行文要學校針對外界的什麼時候發文部長什麼時候發的文我們那個"},{"start":11081.087,"end":11108.682,"text":"大聲一點謝謝跟委員報告喔那個報載之後的第二天我們就發文了那你們讓他們多久時間回應你們我們就一周內一周那他們回覆了嗎還沒還沒好那我聽說現在有地方上有聲音傳出我不確定教育部你們接下來態度會是什麼據說台中科技大學的人可能會跟你們說可能然後會說查無事實那你們怎麼辦假設你們收到這樣的回覆你們該怎麼辦"},{"start":11111.581,"end":11135.456,"text":"那個部長已經指示了我們會主專案小組依據學校所報的他們自己提供的一些資料佐證資料給我們那我們就會實際的主條的根據報導還有你們回覆的這一些我們會去做一些的查核那還有論文的部分國科會也是在做查核"},{"start":11135.856,"end":11160.864,"text":"所以教育部会跟国客会一起开会吗还是分头并进我们会分头做因为国客会只负责论文好没有问题我觉得这个态度非常的坚定而且非常的清楚有就有没有就没有有犯法就有犯法没有犯法就没有犯法我们从来没有阻止两岸学术交流但是该申报就要申报该遵守法规就要遵守法规我想态度非常的清楚以上谢谢好接下来第二个"},{"start":11162.525,"end":11189.537,"text":"学生辅导法在修法之后有非常多的执法要修订那我现在回到教文我继续追踪相关进度第一个是相关的要点那我们办公室在召开会议之后我们知道实施要点往下呢会有这个教职员原而编制准则的问题还有专业辅导人设置的办法那这边我想要直接请国教署署长回答署长我想要确认一下原而编制准则跟辅导人设置办法你们目前执法修法进度跟相关公告进度的规划"},{"start":11190.037,"end":11212.732,"text":"好謝謝首先在要點的部分會配合原則準則以及下面的第三點在行政院4月9號會審議審議的結果我們會作為補助的依據這是第一點那這個我們預期行政院那個是我們會尊重行政院審議的結果應該是4月份會審議完所以第一項應該5月份以前會公布"},{"start":11213.092,"end":11230.514,"text":"好 第一項五月份以前第二項因為它會涉及到最近委員們提到了行政專職化的討論原來我們預定前一個版本在三月三十一號可以公布但是行政專職化因為部長很關心還是希望我們全面蒐集一件檢討這個我們會在五到六月間公布"},{"start":11231.215,"end":11246.387,"text":"好第二項它是很大規模的那我們會在那個時間公佈不希望在可能要更久本來要7月8月我們覺得應該要5月6月讓學校就可以禁用在新學年度前所以我們會在5月6月5月底會完成太好了署長好署長你完全都知道我要問什麼"},{"start":11250.27,"end":11274.001,"text":"第一項我沒有問題然後第三項專府人的辦法跟補助辦法4月9號會公佈這個我也沒有問題確實關鍵是他會連動到第二項你剛說這個關於人員員額編制準則他會牽扯到行政人員專職這件事情我認為確實如同剛謝委員所說的很多老師在問可不可以減輕他們的行政但是你現在跟我說五六月所以你們決定這個部分需要送交行政院嗎"},{"start":11274.801,"end":11289.077,"text":"第二項不用送交行政院所以部裡面自己決定就可以了現在主要是在蒐集意見譬如說我們有五條的主要內涵好 請說包含說我們要不要讓小學有設副組長我們要不要讓"},{"start":11290.338,"end":11311.649,"text":"這個關係到緣而編制我們要不要讓變動的學校組織因為少了一個班結果他設組呢結果他大量減組這些能不能夠跟地方政府溝通讓他變動不要這麼大因為他的所有行政事務還是在類似這些有五個項目會後我們給委員那另外專職化也考慮到"},{"start":11312.489,"end":11340.063,"text":"不要一定要配置正式公務員有沒有可能因為不是設組長他是設人力的專職化能不能夠用契約禁用等等這些都因為涉及到地方政府整體運用人力那我們也覺得是一個新時代比較先進的做法但這五項的精神可能要跟地方政府或有關單位包含人力單位做比較完整的溝通那相關的進度會繼續跟委員匯報"},{"start":11340.623,"end":11365.815,"text":"好謝謝署長這麼清楚的說明我想我們都知道正義的點在哪裡尤其是才化把新版實施之後其實非常多的錢到的地方去我先預告我認為如果你們在這件事情上沒有把態度說清楚到底這些新增的員額編制裡面包含你剛剛說副組長也好還是相關契約的範本也好到底用什麼樣的方法聘請這些行政專職進來我希望教育部的態度要清楚"},{"start":11366.235,"end":11392.794,"text":"到底钱是地方政府出的还是你们出的因为我们知道国教系统有非常多隶属地方政府我不希望在选举这一年到时候很多地方政府因为自己不愿意编列相关的预算不愿意有所承担要甩锅丢包回来教育部就如同之前三张EQ一样所以我先提醒这件事情也期待国教署跟我们办公室比较明确刚刚署长您所说的五项回复以上谢谢好接下来那署长请"},{"start":11394.115,"end":11418.817,"text":"暫時再停一下這邊還是跟你有關再來就關於偏鄉師資的部分我們要謝謝部長之前到TFT參加了一個所謂進論式也就是所謂的偏遠地區學校學士候學分班甚至各式各樣課程規劃的進度那當時我們在講說偏遠地區學校的學士候學分班開班很少報名人數也相對少"},{"start":11419.397,"end":11438.923,"text":"可是感謝教育部在去年擴大辦理之後呢目前我們看到開班人數都是過去的二到三倍確實看見實務上的需求也謝謝教育部願意開班那我想問關於今年的部分我們什麼進度的規劃跟過去不一樣的做法或是更積極的回應地方老師的需求這個可不可以請部長來說明一下"},{"start":11439.983,"end":11463.276,"text":"我想我們謝謝委員關心偏鄉的一個教育品質包括師資的來源我們確實在這個偏鄉地區裡邊我們不僅是開學生學問班我們現在還開專班然後這一個用線上的一個甚至這個寒暑假因為我們非常清楚偏鄉的這些老師代理代課老師他們沒有辦法在一般的一個上課日裡邊"},{"start":11464.457,"end":11485.075,"text":"夜間來上課所以我們大概有更多的除了有專班像原住民地區我們開了原住民的一個工會專班像有一些STEM我們也從請師大開這一個公教的這一些STEM的這些專班然後對偏鄉的我們除了有學士或專班以外我們還有"},{"start":11486.296,"end":11506.346,"text":"來自於偏鄉的這個特別對金門馬祖澎湖我們也開專班也用線上的來學習理論課我們基本上鼓勵這個失陪單位盡量用線上的一個課然後實務操作的就利用寒暑假讓這些真正對台灣教育人才培育有熱情的這些年輕老師能夠圓他們的夢也能夠一起來守護台灣的教育"},{"start":11509.468,"end":11537.271,"text":"好 谢谢部长说明的非常清楚确实在去年小教报考人数就变多了那目前呢我知道可是因为宗教的报考人数仍然寥寥可数我知道教育部今年有放宽说只要四个学期就可以报名可是因为小教现在还是要六个学期我当然知道民间团体有他们的倡议但我想我就简单的说请教育部带回去研议有没有机会小教从六学期一样改成四学期当然我知道你们认为现在小教已经人满为患也许不需要"},{"start":11537.591,"end":11562.903,"text":"但我想你們還是可以回去考慮一下第二個要問的是部長關於之前部長也非常喜歡非常在意的是教學實作導向的師資培育事辦計畫我知道你們有計畫在推進跟進行我也想要確定今年的進度大方向是不是會後可以給我們一個報告因為時間有限我就不讓部長在這裡多說可以嗎好但是我希望相關的同仁要協助部長積極推進這件事情因為部長也非常在意"},{"start":11563.843,"end":11577.75,"text":"等等的這些結合這個施培我想這個是非常有價值的我們也看到國際的經驗所以我想它會變成我們另外的一個施施培育的重點也許也比較適合現在現場的職務困境很多如果老師們邊做邊學"},{"start":11579.891,"end":11592.299,"text":"這些年輕畢業的學生他們充滿對教育的熱情數量非常大我們希望他們能夠投入接下來謝謝部長接下來問這個關於9任獎金的部分因為已經開始發放了也謝謝署長之前國教署署長這邊願意放寬認定獎金請領資格可是當我們在細部盤點之後發現9任獎金還是有一些問題"},{"start":11604.386,"end":11629.895,"text":"那我认为应该没有办法在今天质询台上给我回复可是我还是要把问题提出来拜托部长甚至请关心的委员一起来关心来偏乡教育奖金现在发现几个困境来第一个任职的同为偏乡可是他跑到不同学校去了可能没有办法请领第二个任职的同为偏乡可是跑到不同县市去了也没有办法请领第三个现在的状况是这样罗署长你听听看"},{"start":11630.495,"end":11649.806,"text":"公立學校的附設幼兒園可以支領可是偏鄉的公立幼兒園沒有辦法支領第四個可能是我們武力華委員也會關心的目前有非常多足語的老師還有新著名語言的支援老師他可能長期在一個偏鄉支援這些母語的教學"},{"start":11650.566,"end":11678.189,"text":"但是他可能是因为待客的性质或是原本不在偏乡条例里面所以他完全没有办法支领这个偏乡9任奖金我们想要在这个第一线师资匮乏的当下跟署长跟部长反应我们有没有机会召开相关会议去把这些样态都盘点完然后有没有机会在预算可支应的情况下更加的开放让这些9任的偏乡老师都可以实职"},{"start":11679.13,"end":11694.268,"text":"實質的受到這些獎金的鼓勵來 署長謝謝委員關心我想我們目前委員所關心的幾個樣態我們基本上都已經有掌握法律都已經改變了也就是說沒有沒有 部長我剛剛講的都沒有的我剛剛講的就是沒有我才講出來"},{"start":11696.692,"end":11718.645,"text":"跟委員報告剛剛部長的意思是說在部長的理念跟3月5號的文都可以處理但是有一些認定因為在細節的操作裡面是不是容我把剛才講的公立幼兒園不是附幼以及剛剛足以老師他的身份認定這會涉及到地方政府可能在認定上他的權限他會認為他有到那麼大嗎這個由我們來跟他開會開完幾個個案之後我們把它變成問題會編就可以全國通用你講到關鍵那問題會編什麼時候要開始修訂"},{"start":11725.13,"end":11744.101,"text":"問題會變現在是逐期可以公佈我們每半個月會公佈一次因為最近這個新制度部長很關心希望能夠盡量照顧多一點的我們的夥伴所以3月5號那個文已經非常的放寬並且授權但是認定上怕地方政府還怕有治案所以我們會定期召開每15天會公佈一個新版的QA"},{"start":11744.941,"end":11773.192,"text":"同時也請副本給舊愛文化委員會所有委員包含辦公室我認為偏鄉老師這些部分非常多委員會關心為什麼要這樣講我們當時立這個九月偏鄉獎金我們到底在意的是穩定師資指的到底是指整體的偏鄉師資還是個別學校當時的版本比較看起來是照顧個別學校但我認為在時過境遷這麼多年之後其實所有整體偏鄉的師資穩定這件事情變得非常非常重要謝謝部長跟署長好最後一個題目"},{"start":11774.632,"end":11798.737,"text":"今年是實驗教育修法三法上路已經十年了那有越來越多的學生走出所謂的主流體制但我認為所有進到所謂實驗教育三法不管是個人自學、機構自學還是團體自學有非常多的困境都已經在十年後開始浮現了我等署長講完我怕部長沒有聽到我講的"},{"start":11799.977,"end":11815.624,"text":"好很多困境浮現包含來第一個很多縣市政府他們本來有很多空出來的教室跟場地應該優先提供給這些自學機構申請但是很多地方政府置之不理他們不友善的不接受這些申請非常可惜再來"},{"start":11816.904,"end":11841.19,"text":"很多地方政府面對不同的機構之間有大小眼我們也不知道為什麼例如說作為公辦公營或是公辦民營完全態度不同接下來就是我們在特教法跟學復法修法完之後有非常多自學機構裡面的老師跟家長遇到孩子沒有特教的需求跟輔導的需求完全沒有辦法在這個體制裡面受到照顧我認為十年前很多人認為走進實驗教育的小孩叫做體制外錯"},{"start":11842.33,"end":11857.405,"text":"我希望从现在开始大家重新去想一个念头就是实验教育三法所照顾的都是我们的孩子这些孩子因为有法他们都叫体制内所以认为既然是体制内在十年后的今天我们应该要开启修法的座谈会跟讨论"},{"start":11858.306,"end":11878.337,"text":"這個部分我要先請提醒部長我們來看一下實驗教育人數逆勢成長在學生總數5年少了27萬的同時有越來越多人走出校園走到實驗教育三法所照顧的機構裡面這件事情我認為非同小可尤其輔導資源跟特教資源都照顧不了這些小孩"},{"start":11878.897,"end":11889.469,"text":"我認為這是我們要檢討的部分我知道部長今天應該沒有辦法回答那我就簡單說到這邊我希望後續教育部可以開啟修法的討論我們辦公室也會實質的推進想聽一下部長的態度"},{"start":11890.814,"end":11912.379,"text":"我想謝謝委員關心實驗教育三法確實它是一個民主的象徵我們過去就單一的一個思維我們民主本來就是多元所以我們因應這一個所謂的個別差異能夠因材施教我想實驗三法它某種程度上補助等於說在輔助這一個"},{"start":11914.751,"end":11929.689,"text":"應該是說他照顧了不同學習樣態的家庭跟孩子的需求能夠兼顧到個人需求對 而且這個個人需求我認為不再那麼個人囉你看這個數字就知道其實非常非常的明顯接下來這一題我覺得很難但是我要告訴部長"},{"start":11930.31,"end":11959.391,"text":"现在教育部面对的困境是这个就是台语沉浸幼儿园的问题我们来看一下我们发现在教育部的很多座位上呢其实非常的消极那我们办公室一直在想啊我们不是只有提出问题我们也很试着很想跟教育部一起努力提出解方那我们就找了课委会来讨论而且请教了现场的专家学者来下一张我们办公室就开了这个座谈会我们邀请了课委会来告诉我们现在呢课委会他们的做法是什么呢来课委会的做法我们来看下一张"},{"start":11960.902,"end":11988.559,"text":"关于教保员的部分呢在幼儿园的部分课委会他们就要求教保员的语言门槛必须要在课语中高级以上能力但是在台语幼儿园完全没有那在教保员的培训机制呢课委会有一套机制非常的完整可是我们看到台语的部分完全没有只有演习再来呢语言陪伴的制度呢台语的部分是顾问制而且不可以入班可是课委会它从中央到地方都有专业辅导团甚至有课语陪伴员还有教师互助社群"},{"start":11989.119,"end":12006.153,"text":"再來資訊獲取的管道目前台語幼兒園的老師跟教保員告訴我們分散他們要自己去找可是我們看到課委會非常認真做專屬網站跟一站式的資源其實不是只有教育部現在面臨這個困境我們問了園民會跟課委會跟教育部之間你們在協助成立這些"},{"start":12006.753,"end":12021.946,"text":"所謂的國家語言的學校機制上其實從來沒有一個平台去討論這個事情那如果整體的環境跟有越來越多的家長有意識不論他是希望他的小孩進入所謂課委會這課宇的幼兒園還是台語幼兒園甚至我們未來"},{"start":12023.027,"end":12042.841,"text":"在部落裡頭會有非常多原住民語言的幼兒園這些事情如果我們的教育部跟客人會跟園民會沒有一個好的經驗交流甚至成果分享我認為在教育部這邊會依然可能三五年後看到都會是同一個狀況那我們辦公室也做了研究做了多座談所以我想要快速給教育部幾個建議我們辦公室也會持續的追蹤"},{"start":12044.222,"end":12072.99,"text":"第一个我们希望你们积极跟课委会已经有做出成效的原民会还有文化部就国家语言的部分进行经验分享跟交流第二个教育部如果没有中央辅导团以学术研究跟论述作为基底协助开发课程模组教具教材辅导资源我认为现场老师困境很大还有教育部如何跟地方政府专家学者演绎成立地方辅导团还有陪伴员再来台语教保资讯平台相关计划的一站式网站现在依然是没有的讲了这么多"},{"start":12074.488,"end":12089.21,"text":"千頭萬緒我只是要告訴部長我們不是只是來提出問題我們也請教了課委會謝謝課委會還有那個屏東大學的老師給我們非常多好的建議我這邊把這些建議交給部長我想要請教一部積極去研議三個月內給我們規劃報告可以嗎"},{"start":12091.919,"end":12108.812,"text":"這個資料我們可以再送交教育部張可業提相關報告OK的但是我也不用這個機會跟委員報告我們從去年的9月開始已經超過全國這一個22個教育局處所長的一個會議裡面已經有宣示從幼兒園裡面從語言上的一個"},{"start":12109.552,"end":12126.794,"text":"等於說這個社區語言的一個共通性開始這一個不管是台語或者客語或者原住民語就幼兒園裡面它變成一個老師一個很重要的一個跟幼兒的教學裡面很重要的一個語言的一個界面那我們也"},{"start":12128.756,"end":12143.849,"text":"這個請這個國教署這個不定期的到各地方學校這個幼兒園去訪視希望這個本土園國家園的一個推動能夠從幼兒園就開始前面來推我知道時間有限再給我三四秒部長你剛剛講的我完全認同你在局處會議上"},{"start":12144.85,"end":12162.341,"text":"用宣誓的方法可是一旦所有老師要動起來教保員要動起來他就需要我剛講的這些事情他需要教材他需要資源他需要網站他需要陪伴他需要相關的輔導機制協助他去落實部長的宣誓跟交代對嗎所以部長這邊該做的事情我們一起努力"},{"start":12162.441,"end":12183.102,"text":"市長我想這個輔導團裡面包含許多教材的開發我們當然都一直持續在做地方現在也有一定程度的做得非常非常不錯像去年全國舉辦的這個本土語言本土的教材的一個開發我也到現場去看到各縣市其實在這個部分他們還真的是都"},{"start":12183.883,"end":12203.549,"text":"做的有許多的具體的一個成果我想會後我們除了委員的建議我們來深化以外有一些東西我想我也跟我們會後也來跟委員做一個更詳細的報告好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席好 謝謝陳培雲委員請部長回座接下來有請吳佩奕委員"},{"start":12209.687,"end":12213.41,"text":"好 謝謝我請教育部鄭部長好 請鄭部長委員好好 部長好剛陳培育委員提到這個實驗教育三法上路之後我們要來一個通盤檢討我相當的支持也相當有感因為我過去在擔任市議員的時候就時常跟像我們這種非學員型態的實驗教育的團體家長或者學員團體都有他們時常遇到真的很多的這些困擾"},{"start":12238.968,"end":12260.825,"text":"譬如說學校裡面跟學校來談場地常常有時候都需要來協助來協調甚至曾經譬如說租金要幫忙負擔土地稅等等的問題那麼像新府資源也是一樣有些學生他們是沒有學籍的或有些是掛在教育局的那在新府資源的使用上面有時候他們就會比較被忽略到所以我覺得確實因為上路已經實務經驗這麼多年了"},{"start":12264.028,"end":12268.61,"text":"那我們針對學校型態 非學型態也好就是各方類型的實驗教育的學生我們能夠怎麼樣整體再來提供他們資源跟後盾我覺得真的是可以整體來討論一下那今天最主要幾個問題要跟部長討論首先是因為前陣子因為林義雄先生過去林齋寫案的事件重新被社會大眾看見那社會上面發起一個叫轉型正義補課潮"},{"start":12290.6,"end":12314.957,"text":"那我受到很多人的反應說很感謝教育部有一個轉型正義的補課專區因為上面的資訊至少國人可以知道說這個資訊是正確的因為現在資訊特別發達也變成說查證也需要花比較多的心力所以知道資訊正確那很多人他是想要認識歷史想要了解歷史有一個管道有一個入口讓他可以入門那大家會自己再去挖掘更多的資料來閱讀"},{"start":12316.138,"end":12331.184,"text":"那麼事實上我們去回顧教育部對轉型正義教育的推動其實一直是關鍵角色為了轉型正義的工程教育是重中之重因為我們要真的去認識歷史我們才能夠反省才能夠學習尊重所以教育部我們從2000年以後開始推動人權教育我們有國家轉型正義教育行動綱領從2023至2026年的同時我們也有教學諮詢網"},{"start":12342.068,"end":12355.377,"text":"我們針對轉型正義的教育人才庫我們也有設置要點這些都是等於是我們轉型正義教育的基礎工程我覺得很重要那也肯定教育部我們也希望可以繼續來做那針對轉型正義補課專區我們目前上線的是兩個單元一個是228一個是湯德章那麼接下來4月7日是輿論自由日"},{"start":12365.203,"end":12384.361,"text":"言論自由日我們也會有鄭南榮的一個短影音的一個言論自由日那一天會公佈好這個是我們教育部轉型正義補課專心的下一張新的一張的課程那麼未來5月19號也會有5月19號也有再一個課程那麼我們"},{"start":12385.442,"end":12400.332,"text":"就是說我們會針對每一個月裡面不同的一些不管白色恐怖或者對個人的這個人權上造成了一個傷害我們大概希望說陳柏惟講說自由全然不是自然發生的那歷史"},{"start":12401.132,"end":12415.568,"text":"我們可以原諒但是不能遺忘那我想這一個部分我們也希望因為透過這個短營透過轉型正義的一個更積極全面的推動希望我們國人能夠更珍惜我們的自由台灣的自由跟民主"},{"start":12416.149,"end":12436.294,"text":"是 因為迴響真的相當不錯那我們也需要這樣比較科普性質的教育那就我所知這一次因為是事件引發的所以說第一個課程上線的時候也比較倉促一點所以很感謝我們相關單位我們承辦同仁大家都是全力的在拼啦那我們有沒有針對這一個轉型正義的補課專區有一個中長程的規劃呢"},{"start":12443.154,"end":12468.067,"text":"跟委員報告我們已經排到明年二月也就是說那因為明年剛好二二八又是八十週年就是說我們大概在這個行動綱領裡面到今年第一期結束我們明年事實上會請這個我們租賜場現在會有一個一家從今年開始等於有一個重疊明年又有一個新的四年但是今年成為一家四雖然它是最後一年"},{"start":12468.567,"end":12484.875,"text":"我們有一系列的這些轉型正義的一些課程或者一些不遺址的大學裡邊開始今年過去沒有我們今年開始把大學的USR包含大學的教學實驗實踐計畫裡邊已經也都摳"},{"start":12489.677,"end":12510.789,"text":"希望老師在教學創新裡面或者USR大學能夠把這個轉型正義人權教育也都能夠帶進來那目前在USR裡面已經有七所大學提出這樣一個計畫我想從大所接小所裡面結合在地的地方文史跟社會工作者能夠把這些地圖然後"},{"start":12511.409,"end":12526.922,"text":"讓中小學能夠透過他們來協助中小學的學生也都能夠進一步的去理解我們這個歷史好 部長我們很支持你們去推動但你知道我長期關注所以我看了去年12月行政院有一個轉型爭議這個會報會議記錄我們行政院人權處就提出說認為你們的業務繁重"},{"start":12534.128,"end":12559.816,"text":"認為你們的人力是有必要增加的這個行政院通常都是我們去跟行政院要人力他說你這個太多了 不可以再多了很少行政院叫你們要增加人力所以人力的部分我們有沒有相應的規劃呢謝謝委員關心 確實我們做了非常多 包含教師課程教材的發展包括校長的演習 包括我們看許多的這些轉型正義相關的影片那也邀請行政院的"},{"start":12560.476,"end":12582.241,"text":"這一個委員去現場跟我們指導那我們現在也感謝他們看到我們在有限人力做了還蠻積極的所以我們現在大概也跟人事總署人事總署在爭取說希望能夠有能力的調整要去進行那我們也建議"},{"start":12582.901,"end":12603.135,"text":"就是因為我們這一次也有跟像228基金會來合作嘛我們也可以多來增加跟像228紀念館國家人權館這些專案的合作我覺得都很重要然後諸次也是228基金會的董事嘛這個他們都長期在投入了來去善用整合這些資源我想也很重要我們是展現一個態度就是說我們在今年"},{"start":12604.115,"end":12632.35,"text":"在這個月裡面應該上個月我們教育部的部務會議我也親自帶我們所有的一級主管到景美的人權博物館裡面去開部務會議同時也請受難者當事人出來解說我想這也是展現說我們教育部在未來轉型政治跟人權教育這個我們一定會全面的來更積極的來推動"},{"start":12632.87,"end":12637.095,"text":"好那我們也支持教育部繼續來推動這個主持人謝謝那時間不是很夠但是我一定要跟部長討論是專任輔導教師的權益因為黃姐委員在總質詢的時候也有跟部長您討論過那當時這個"},{"start":12649.068,"end":12657.714,"text":"您的回應是說再請地方政府來補貼我認為這是不夠有誠意所以今天還是要討論一下這個因為根據我們學生輔導法我們專輔教師跟專業輔導人力這個當然是守護我們校園心理健康最重要的兩個防線那上一週我們是在審查學生衛生法學校衛生法這時候也有提到專輔人力的議題今天要講的是專輔教師主要就是說因為我們對教師我們有一個標準是授課時數"},{"start":12679.728,"end":12698.855,"text":"所以我們可以去衡量去評估說例如他這個有沒有超過業務量啊有沒有超時加急啊等等但是專輔教師他是用個案他是用案量對個案進行處遇嘛那所以等於教育部目前你們對專輔教師的業務你們有衡量標準嗎你們衡量標準是什麼"},{"start":12700.915,"end":12722.562,"text":"我們目前其實是沒有標準的所以沒有標準會造成什麼問題你根本看不見專輔教師他的辛勞我連衡量評估的工具都沒有那所以說呢這個目前不管是輔導教師教師團體或家長團體都有提出一個訴求就是說我們的專輔教師能夠比照特教"},{"start":12723.522,"end":12733.645,"text":"老師有特教老師有特教家級嘛我們能不能夠有專輔家級這個部分呢我想已經部長已經充分了解這個問題了我們有沒有我們可不可以來開啟一個討論就是說你們找這個專業團體大家來討論說這個到底是要怎麼樣改善我關專輔教師確實怎麼樣去讓給他們有一個更大的支持我想我們"},{"start":12748.45,"end":12749.554,"text":"我們會來會後會來找相關的包括專業團體我們一起來討論這個要開會我們有沒有一個時間"},{"start":12758.425,"end":12765.168,"text":"近快來兩個月內我們就來開啟這個討論好不好因為你們一定比我們更了解實務上面遇到的困難那這個你要增加加擠也好這都是要整體互相來做評估的所以趕快來開啟這個會議的討論那除了加擠以外還有一個比較具體的是我們學校的這個輔導主任是不是一定要專輔老師來兼任這個我們國民教育法21條是規定說輔導主任"},{"start":12787.378,"end":12792.343,"text":"是有輔導熱忱及專業智能的教師擔任學生輔導法第九條學校輔導主管依據輔導專業專長者優先任用實際上是你有輔導教師證就可以來擔任輔導主任才對"},{"start":12805.27,"end":12820.505,"text":"那唯一只有在高中我們的高級中等教育法20條裡面有明定說這個主任必須要專輔教師來擔任之好 現在問題來了因為我這邊收到了不只一所各縣市都有完全中學來反映"},{"start":12820.865,"end":12835.483,"text":"因為學校實務狀況很多事這個處長可能知道他輔導老師可能就只有兩位那你一定要專輔老師來才能擔任輔導主任的話兩個人輪流一直在兼主任等於這個行政職他永遠這個是永遠沒有辦法放下的"},{"start":12836.104,"end":12854.414,"text":"那所以他們說我們完全中學我的業務其實包含了國中跟高中那我們的法規的解釋其實就我來看法規解釋你不一定是要比照高中的標準因為它也有國中的業務存在那麼那個完全中學它是不是可以只要是有這個輔導教師證的這個老師就可以來擔任輔導主任這個部長過去有沒有聽聞過這相關的陳情啊"},{"start":12862.479,"end":12881.251,"text":"謝謝委員因為確實這一個問題就剛才委員所說的完全中學我們目前是比照高級中學法的第20條那我們也這個法規會的一個知情裡面大概也都是目前的態度都是採用比照這一個高中的教育法這樣來執行"},{"start":12884.893,"end":12901.541,"text":"這個部長我看過你們所有的會議記錄其實有專家是有提出不同的法律解釋沒有認為說一定要用這個高級中等教育法來解釋所以部長拜託一下因為我覺得這個實務上如果我們可以替他解決這個困擾只要是法規"},{"start":12902.461,"end":12921.033,"text":"可以允許的範圍內甚至我看起來甚至不用修法請你們來討論一下好不好就實務的需求跟法規解釋面來做整體的評估我們希望就我們現在不用修法的階段你可以我們能夠提供給他們幫助的盡量來協助因為真的現場的狀況是負擔相當的大好謝謝部長好謝謝署長好謝謝吳佩儀委員的詢答請部長回座接下來有請郭育晴委員質詢"},{"start":12936.206,"end":12940.378,"text":"好 謝謝主席有請部長好 有請部長"},{"start":12945.814,"end":12966.509,"text":"委員好部長辛苦了那今天其實我還是要針對這個校事會議的部分來提出一些我的看法跟一些問題那我想這個校事會議其實是在我們第一線的老師的現場其實他們也就是因為校事會議的關係那剛剛前面其實我聽了有幾位的委員也特別提到現在其實我們"},{"start":12967.009,"end":12986.765,"text":"老師的部分 校園的部分其實有一波這個老師要出走潮那我想消失會議可能也佔了很大的一個重要的一個原因那我先請教一下這個部長我們之前其實當然我們1月12號的時候其實我們也對外公布了這個消失會議的部分我們怎麼樣來做這個最好的一個補救的一個方式"},{"start":12987.265,"end":13009.995,"text":"就是让老师不要在校园当中除了教学以外还有人心惶惶面对自己被调查这样子的一个危机那当时其实我们也说了我们会删除这个匿名检举弹书那我相信这个应该就可以解决蛮大的一个部分就是被滥诉的一个就是匿名滥诉的这样子一个状况那第二个其实之前我多次的在咨询我相信我是第一个提到这个消失会议的人"},{"start":13010.475,"end":13037.503,"text":"那當然我也多次的建議就是教育部我們是不是在這個進入校事會議之前我們會有一個分流也就是分級的一個機制那這個部分呢我想問一下就是教育部目前有沒有收到來自校園方面他們做了這樣子的一個處理那效果或成效又如何這個分流的機制就是在進入校事會議之前我們先把有一些根本就是溝通上的一個問題我是現場可以解決的不需要再走所謂的校事會議的程序這個部分有沒有收到一些回饋"},{"start":13039.21,"end":13054.04,"text":"跟委員報告到這個2月28號等於說今年1月12到2月28我們收到的全國有86案那麼受理的才只有等於說在事前就分流了大概就只有"},{"start":13054.56,"end":13083.732,"text":"二十二案其他就變成不受理或者轉到考二案它確實達到了已經開始有分流了好那我想要再回到這個所謂的分流有所謂的這個分流的一個這樣子的一個算是方法就是在校園當中已經開始實行了那它的確也出現了一些效果但是我想要問的是這個誰來決定分流到底是停留在我只是溝通我在學校端我就可以解決然後接著下來我可能有一些部分我可能要"},{"start":13084.392,"end":13107.808,"text":"往所謂的校士會議前進這個分流的組成的判定的團體或者是組織是由校方的人員呢還是由老師還是由所謂的這個家長還是由外部的一些專業的這個學者或者是專家這個分流的這個制度根文報告在基本上就是這一個組成是校長老師代表"},{"start":13108.528,"end":13124.062,"text":"家長代表還有社會公正人士但是校長是不投票的所以等於就是由教師代表家長代表跟社會公正人士他們取得一些共識之後然後再回來就是校長來做裁定對不對應該是這樣子他們就做了一個決定校長基本上就在主持這個會議讓他能夠順暢"},{"start":13126.264,"end":13140.492,"text":"為什麼我今天特別提到這個問題這個看似我們針對所謂的這個消失會議的這個前端的部分分流的一個部分看似我們好像還蠻多元的然後還蠻完整的但是問題是會不會有可能成為"},{"start":13141.713,"end":13164.173,"text":"不是沒有有沒有專業的問題是誰要不要負責判斷的這個問題我為什麼要這麼講喔那我以日本來做這樣子的一個例子日本在2020年其實他們就已經提出了所謂的這個校園律師這樣子的一個機制那校園律師的一個存在其實不只是存在於校園當中他可以處理包含學生被霸凌或者是師生"},{"start":13165.074,"end":13182.549,"text":"事件的一些關係等等他做一些比較正確而且法律上的一個專業的一個判斷那回到我們現在講的所謂的教師會議的前端我們的分級的一個機制喔那我想呢是由法律的專業來主導這個前端的一個判斷他是一個非常重要的一個緩衝同時他也會避免"},{"start":13183.149,"end":13207.41,"text":"我想避免是什麼避免行政最後來主導這個判斷也就是說我把這些專業意見變成只是其中的一個參考而已但是在日本他們是有這樣子的一個所謂的校園律師我們有沒有可能往這個方向來做這樣子的一個考量也就是說當一個案件進來的時候其實在台灣剛剛我們講到台灣的校園我們是有家長代表我們可能有學生代表"},{"start":13207.99,"end":13227.966,"text":"家長代表我們有這個教師代表然後再來可能有行政人員然後最後這個校長他是沒有投票的一個權利這位公證人是訓練過是外界的公證人好那只要有爭議只要碰到如果這個所謂的案例他是有爭議的會不會因為我們剛剛講的沒有一個人想要當壞人啊"},{"start":13229.833,"end":13246.064,"text":"你懂我意思嗎就沒有一個人想要當壞人沒有人想當壞人的時候他沒有人願意去承擔說啊這個所謂的這個消失會議我可能就不受理那最後我們大家都沒有辦法決定好那就只好送消失會議會不會有可能這樣的一個狀況當然有時候土耳不足以置信當然"},{"start":13247.205,"end":13267.306,"text":"有沒有可能我當然是有可能但是我們至少在程序比如說他是匿名投票然後這個校外的公證人士當然他有可能有法律專業背景的或者因為這個事件裡面他們可能是走這個心理學家或者這個兒童社工人士等等的這些"},{"start":13267.466,"end":13291.939,"text":"因為今天這個時間關係我為什麼會特別提到就是說我們是不是可以來參考日本他們的一個做法也就是說我們傾向程序化的處理不要只是為了自保而已而是這個程序化之前的這個分級的處理我們是不是可以給一個所謂的這個第三方最公正的一個單位這個人可能就是所謂有律師背景我們來做所謂的這個比照"},{"start":13292.759,"end":13309.821,"text":"如果是法律問題進入程序如果只是溝通問題我們可以現場來到處理我們到處理實時的審查到那個第二個階段那個所謂的真正認定他可能會可能會觸及到這個解聘不續的這些但通常各個學校都會有法律的專家進來好"},{"start":13311.383,"end":13325.879,"text":"但是我剛剛講了法律的專家進來他只是其中的一環的其中的一個人但是其實我們看到日本他們是把法律的專家是守在整個所有的制度或所有的機制的最前面這個其實我們也可以來做一個參考好不好"},{"start":13326.4,"end":13352.006,"text":"好那接下來第二個問題其實我剛剛有特別提到我們的老師出走潮那現在其實關於這個國中小的一個教師離職的人數其實算是最多的那麼從這個109年的一個資料到113年從原本的2249人包含這些離職啦退休啦或者是所謂的這個留停的這個人數從2000多人已經暴增到"},{"start":13352.626,"end":13373.593,"text":"五千零二十四人五年之內其實已經高達了百分之一百二十三那這個其實等於是翻倍的在流失啊就是老師的這樣子的一個人才是翻倍的在流失那尤其是中間的四十歲到五十歲這最重要的中生代的一個教師他是校園最重要的一個主幹但"},{"start":13374.013,"end":13374.353,"text":"我們調查過了這個"},{"start":13392.325,"end":13417.769,"text":"這是翻轉教育他們說了這個校園當中將近有四成的老師考慮在三年之內要離職我們有沒有掌握到底是什麼原因留不住人是因為我們的整個所有的薪資的結構還是有一個最重要的原因還是剛剛我提到的所謂的校士的會議我們不能在一個已經在漏水的桶子裡面我說沒關係我就一直加水加水加水他還在漏啊"},{"start":13418.149,"end":13442.684,"text":"如果沒有找到真正的原因我們怎麼補足這一塊因為最終受影響的還是學生的受教權這個部分謝謝委員提醒確實老師的工作滿意度是很重要關係到我們台灣的一個教育品質那我們事實上從實施因為譬如說我們實施在從民國五十七年改制為國中每三十年"},{"start":13444.039,"end":13461.976,"text":"大概一個世代退休潮那當然隨著你看五十七年到八十七年到一一七理論上他就是他可能會是一個世代交替但是剛好在這幾年因為隨著我們科技產業的犀利這當然也可能是一個原因另外"},{"start":13463.91,"end":13490.536,"text":"所以剛剛其實部長有講到可能可能可能可是問題是我希望教育部要做到的因為我們畢竟是教育部我們是最高的主管機關這個部分如果我們沒有辦法掌握真正學校校園失資流失的真正的關鍵的原因我們找不到方法如果找不到方法我們有再好的一些政策其實我們真的都應該認為這個是一個非常重要的一個危機"},{"start":13493.496,"end":13513.386,"text":"是專業的一個立場我的很清楚我們在師培裡邊我們功一定要大於求那至於地方國民教育本來是地方他應該他是地方前線嘛老師校長都是他們在聘學校的經理人都是來自地方前線我們希望地方也能夠"},{"start":13518.011,"end":13532.357,"text":"我們都知道我們公願意大於求但重點是很多好幾招之後他還是招不滿要好幾招我想我的心情跟委員是一樣就是說"},{"start":13533.437,"end":13557.404,"text":"國民教育地方他不能兩手一攤就說我聘不到老師我希望我們來做一個真正的現場的盤點來真的找出到底這些老師留不住的真正的原因到底在哪裡然後我們才能夠更具體這個部分是不是有一些比較實設師跟國教署也一直在這一個部分委託學者專家在做"},{"start":13558.785,"end":13576.178,"text":"一系列的一些計畫研究在了解我想老師的專業跟基石是國家最重要的一個競爭力的存在那最後請主席再給我一點時間還有第三個問題然後我想這個部分我們如果有一些比較進程的一些報告再提供給我辦公室我們真的來正視這樣子的一個問題好嗎好"},{"start":13578.26,"end":13594.731,"text":"然後再來第三個問題我想大家都知道現在不管是假訊息也好然後AI是日新月異啊然後再加上所謂的認知作戰是越來越嚴重了但是在我們的教育體系當中我們是不是還停留在教學生不要亂信所謂的假訊息這樣子一個層次而已剛剛"},{"start":13595.892,"end":13611.048,"text":"聽到就是我們的這個AI立委我們的葛羅軍委員他有特別提到芬蘭那我也想要用芬蘭來做這樣子的一個例子來說明那我想這個芬蘭他們是從3歲到10歲就已經開始在教孩子們什麼叫做"},{"start":13612.149,"end":13632.107,"text":"識讀的能力那他們甚至在語言的課程當中已經開始在辨識所謂的訊息的來源那麼他們在社會課程當中已經開始在判讀所謂的公共的議題甚至在數位科的這個教學的方面他們已經開始在用演算法跟假訊息這樣子的一個操作在作為教育了所以為什麼這個芬蘭從這個如果我沒記錯從2018年到2023年"},{"start":13638.092,"end":13654.864,"text":"他一直是所謂的嗜讀教育整個所有的評比的第一名這是在歐洲但是除了在歐洲德國也開始做了英國也開始做了連我們知道的南韓也開始做了韓國也開始做了那我想呢現在如果說大家都已經全世界都已經"},{"start":13655.945,"end":13680.642,"text":"意識到所謂的識讀的教育識讀的認知的問題其實是媒體識讀非常非常重要的問題我們如果還只是停留在分散在各科流於形式只是在告訴大家說啊這個可能是假的這個可能是真的但是我們沒有統一或者是系統性的不管是師培也好或者是教學的資源的支柱也好讓老師只是輕輕的帶過我想這個問題會非常非常的嚴重我們有沒有"},{"start":13685.666,"end":13703.459,"text":"我想這所謂的這個媒體的試讀它不是選修而是真的從小現在開始我們就應該要有一個整合性的一個這樣子的一個把中小學把媒體試讀這樣子的一個科學能夠放進去我們的課綱當中我們有沒有這樣子一個計畫"},{"start":13705.561,"end":13724.034,"text":"最近確實我們規劃了一個AI人才這個方舟計畫裡邊本來媒體試讀我們就一直在從小學就前面在做包含我們這一個終身教育師他也在這個社大裡邊社區大學裡邊 樂齡裡邊也都有在教"},{"start":13724.414,"end":13748.575,"text":"沒有我不是在講外面我是在講學校啊我是在講中小學啊學校就有開始在做那這個剛才所講的是AI人才方舟計畫裡面媒體試圖它也是一個重點也是我們一個計畫裡面我想我提醒教育部我們要把這個部分當成是國家級的基礎工程來做為什麼我要這麼說因為它其實跟我們的國家安全有分別"},{"start":13748.575,"end":13773.224,"text":"非常大的一個關係如果孩子們他沒有從小有這樣子的一個觀念其實他就是國安非常嚴重的一個破口我們一定要我們一定要把它當成一個非常重要的正式來做看怎麼樣把所謂的這個媒體識讀的一個教育正式納入國中小的一個階段讓每一個孩子都知道我要怎麼樣在日新月異的AI整個所有"},{"start":13773.604,"end":13784.211,"text":"都有可能因為一個指令就可能變成一個假訊息這樣子充斥的一個環境當中能夠找到自己能夠自我判斷媒體識讀的一個能力好不好好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席"},{"start":13786.567,"end":13807.962,"text":"好 谢谢郭玉晴委员 请部长回座主席在这边先宣告那个叶元之委员发言前我先有一件事要说明今天有一个临时提案一案那在武力华委员咨询完毕之后我们要进行处理好 现在有请叶元之委员询答 请"},{"start":13817.626,"end":13821.49,"text":"主席好麻煩請教育部長謝謝好有請曾部長"},{"start":13826.991,"end":13854.328,"text":"委員好部長好因為今天大家討論這個教師法其實最終目的我覺得還是要給老師一定的尊重要改善對老師的不友善的環境剛剛大家都談很多現在少事化真的非常嚴重我真是希望教育部可以很正視這個問題因為教育是國家的根本如果連老師都不願意投入這個工作的話那以後誰來教育學生這其實是雙輸的局面教育部常常講說地方怎麼樣地方怎麼樣但教育部"},{"start":13855.048,"end":13878.115,"text":"總是教育的最高單位嘛當然希望你多做一些事情包括我們都希望跟你一起來討論然後看怎麼樣讓教育更好那我昨天總諮詢也跟卓榮泰院長跟部長很深入的討論有關於校園安全的問題基本上我覺得校園安全這個議題也會影響到老師願不願意留在這個職場的動機就像昨天卓榮泰院長"},{"start":13878.795,"end":13899.296,"text":"他 我也是很感謝他啦 他有肯定 我因為想要解決這個校園安全的問題 所以呢 提了一個安心上學法案針對那些常常戴蝴蝶套上課啊 然後那種動不動就拿 可能會有疑慮他也可能拿刀刺人的啊或者是拿鋁棒敲人的啊 這種背後有乾哥乾姐的這種學生"},{"start":13900.197,"end":13923.182,"text":"希望能夠由教育部可以設立一個專屬的學校由一些教育很有理念的專業團體來設立比如說以人為本比如說愛德教育正向管教讓原本的學校的師生可以得到喘息好好讀書昨天院長他說他有認同我這個大方向不過昨天院長講了一句話在網路上有一些老師也有意見因為院長說"},{"start":13925.262,"end":13940.229,"text":"如果遇到那些會帶刀上課的學生那老師跟行政人員就要有所處置啊但是他講這句話是完全不了解教學現場的因為在現在的教學情況之下如果你說要一般的行政人員跟老師面對這種學生他要怎麼處理他沒有能力處理啊"},{"start":13940.868,"end":13969.728,"text":"所以教育部要針對這件事情我覺得要提出一個方案出來那我覺得既然院長他要肯定我的立法方向那接下來細節部分我們是不是可以真的非常認真我們上次有開過公聽會但是部長沒有來啦是不是可以找一個時間跟請部長啊部長可以找一些相關的人我們一起就是不一定要利用這個委員會的時間我們可以很認真地來討論一下細節因為他可能牽涉到比較深入的討論不知道部長你願意嗎"},{"start":13971.854,"end":13987.611,"text":"怎麼樣讓學校更友善更安全讓老師教學能夠安心學生學習放心家長也能夠放心小孩子在學校學習我想這個方向我們是一定願意來努力的你沒有回答我問題啊"},{"start":13988.812,"end":13992.836,"text":"我是說既然院長有肯定我們的立法方向的話那我們就我們來找一個時間來討論一下細節啦因為我們委員會職群時間也不多啦也沒辦法很認真進入細節我都約你啊我們再找一個時間來討論因為確實細節要有另外的一個時間重溫討論"},{"start":14009.634,"end":14036.134,"text":"我來先我來這個提一下因為我之前我在上個會期我有提到一個事情也是跟跟老師的待遇跟尊重老師有關的因為我先肯定一下教育部把老師的終點費提高了那這個是肯定當然這第一步我們覺得不夠但是可以再多一點可是至少已經跨出第一步但是因為他還有他反映了一個狀況就是說如果學校的老師他如果不是導師也不是行政人員他也不是終點老師的話其實對這些老師來講"},{"start":14038.536,"end":14065.783,"text":"教育部現在的做法對他們來說是沒有差的反而是讓他們多付出為什麼呢因為他們如果請假一般老師請假的待課費用是老師自己出嘛那所以他出的待課費用反而提高所以像一群就是比如說他可能是科人老師在教育部這一波的待遇的調整他們其實沒有受惠其實是沒有受惠反而多付出這個部長我跟您提過不知道您還記得嗎"},{"start":14067.096,"end":14087.344,"text":"你記得嗎 記得嗎那當時我是不知道說教育部要怎麼去解決這個問題啦針對我剛剛提到那一群老師 但是我有提一個建議我說不然的話是不是可以減老師的終點開始做起因為現在國小是20個終點 國中18個終點 高中16個終點如果讓所有的老師都可以減兩個終點的話他第一個 因為108課綱關係老師其實負擔也蠻重的"},{"start":14093.767,"end":14114.815,"text":"讓他撿終點 如果他願意撿終點 那他可以多一點時間去備課或去跟學生相處教學之類的第二個 部長可能會講說 那撿終點的話 那其他的課誰要來教如果找得到就可以讓其他人來教那如果找不到的話呢 校內因為撿了終點之後假設由原來的校內老師來上這些課的話"},{"start":14116.676,"end":14142.415,"text":"那這些老師他就可以得到額外的終點費那他如果得到額外的終點費那他等於是這一次教育部調漲的終點費對他來說就有幫助他等於是有點變相加薪那我上個會期提的時候幾個月已經隔很多個月了當時我跟部長講說其實幫你算過了全國大概增加二十幾億啦這個錢真的對教育部來說不是一個大錢可是你至少可以讓老師"},{"start":14143.396,"end":14170.256,"text":"得到一個基本尊重而且讓至少讓所有的老師不管他是不是導師或者是行政人員那他都可以在薪資上面有增加一些其實也增加不多但是這就是有增加到嘛那時候我不知道部長你好像是說要研議一下有好幾個月了我不知道部長研議的怎麼樣報告因為他涉及到地方的一個教育前線嘛地方自治的一個前線不會啊你去談啊國民教育沒有部長對不起我要跟你溝通一個觀念"},{"start":14171.738,"end":14189.925,"text":"教育雖然說國民教育簽到地方但教育部是最高的主管機關我來今天這邊跟你討論如果你認為做這件事情對教育是有幫助那你教育部可以去跟地方去談啊那你開會了嗎我已經講幾個月了嘛那你去開 你去找了嗎你找了嗎 會議紀錄給我啊"},{"start":14191.866,"end":14212.096,"text":"這是上個會期跟您說的啊那如果每一次跟你說你提的都是說那地方的事然後沒有任何的動作那請問一下那部長你是在所以教育都跟你無關嘛你能推就推嗎這是幾個月前就跟你講了嘛你說這地方的事請問一下教育部有沒有找地方政府來討論過有沒有國教署署長"},{"start":14213.427,"end":14239.797,"text":"跟委員報告一下剛剛專業委員有問到類似您的問題行政檢調的同時把這個一般老師 科任老師有沒有機會給他加薪這個有列在我們這一次在四月份跟地方政府談的議題裡面我上個 不好意思署長上個會期就講了上個會期就講了然後呢 其實教育部你也可以編這個錢嘛你們對於高教我上次就講了嘛高教那時候特別預算送過來就是幾百億"},{"start":14240.857,"end":14265.3,"text":"就覺得高教 但我覺得我們也都支持高教啊那高教幾百億 你覺得不編這幾百億高教的韌性會有問題那現在大家今天討論的主題就是怎麼面臨少師化嘛剛剛那麼多委員都有提到我的這個方案才增加二十幾億然後可以讓一般的老師他不兼行政 沒有當導師他也可以透過減終點的方式得到一點加薪"},{"start":14266.741,"end":14286.528,"text":"這全國大概就是二三十億然後你就是做不到這個地方的事然後幾個月前跟你們講你說那個地方那你也沒有找地方啊這是全國的嘛 撿終點難道是台北市的事嗎是新北市的事嗎要撿當然全國一起撿啊這也是可以全國一體試用啊為什麼教育部不願意呢所以委員我問部長"},{"start":14287.964,"end":14307.79,"text":"沒有 委員到底要剪幾小兩個終點我剛講了嘛這個跟地方當然 我們還是那你請問一下你去那你去跟他們討論沒那現在剛才署長已經有跟你報告說我們四月已經把四月我是上個會期講的你那時候說要研議結果你現在因為我來這邊問了所以你跟我說四月"},{"start":14309.062,"end":14332.628,"text":"那我沒有問就8月啦我再沒有問就12月啦公務員報告你不要大聲啦不是大聲跟大聲小聲什麼關係那我跟部長報告你回答問題不要那麼蠻憨我沒有蠻憨你如果說要來站態度的話要站態度大家一起來站啊我也是就事論事我們尊重地方也跟地方協調希望有一個共通的但是你沒有做"},{"start":14333.516,"end":14344.31,"text":"你到現在為止都沒有做做得比較慢是這樣沒有錯嗎好啦你要來站態度啦我不要大聲啦那你可不可以積極"},{"start":14345.472,"end":14369.533,"text":"可以啊你可以做一個積極的教育部長嗎你可以做一個面對問題解決問題然後針對教育困境提出方案的部長嗎我是一個非常積極的教育部長是自我感覺良好阿偉我可不可以補充一下因為你那時候提的時候我們是提用12月31號那個方案已經先做了一波現在地方政府要連續12月31號是什麼方案加了那三項加薪"},{"start":14371.614,"end":14393.345,"text":"我是上個會期提出來因為三項加薪衍生出來的問題就是一般老師他的待課費用增加如果他不是行政職不是導師等於是這波加薪對他沒有幫助但反而是付出更多成本這個是上個會議講不是12月底的方案我們是12月底宣布那個方案所以您提的時候不是因應那個三項加薪"},{"start":14394.285,"end":14417.285,"text":"三项加薪是在一月份你又在跟我提过说能不能够也考虑我跟委员回报说这一个因为涉及到地方政府容我在最近一次通盘性的演绎中一起来规划因为这个要由刚刚委员讲的你说的减两节地方政府在12月他们已经花了大概21亿是不是容我在跟地方政府沟通呢什么时候"},{"start":14417.785,"end":14443.104,"text":"什麼時候 那我們訂一個日期出來好不好剛剛有講到四月中以前四月中會完成溝通是不是會完成溝通 第一次溝通因為這會涉及到五項方案剛剛跟陳培英委員講到五項其中有含一項您提到的這一類要不要用減中這一類思考讓老師行政減量但恐怕沒有辦法減但有點實質加薪這些都是我們的規劃可是時序上跟委員再補充一下"},{"start":14443.724,"end":14468.956,"text":"剛剛的時序是這個樣子喔 謝謝四月是不是四月是不是對好 那到時候我四月再來問喔好 再來喔我再請教一下因為最近學測開始放榜嘛那我這邊有接到一些學生的抱怨啦也反映給部長 署長知道因為如果要申請用學測要申請入學是不是要準備學期歷程檔案對吧 要準備學期歷程檔案嘛那結果呢"},{"start":14469.895,"end":14492.328,"text":"學生其實說考得也不錯啦但是可能因為有些學校要入學他有一個門檻嘛比如國文加社會要達到幾分或是哪一科加哪一科要幾分可是有時候就差一分兩分他就沒有辦法去申請他理想的學校但是他的學習歷程檔案已經做一大堆所以學生就在抱怨那為什麼既然我沒有機會去申請這些學校為什麼要做這些學習歷程檔案呢"},{"start":14495.129,"end":14519.211,"text":"那以前的做法啦在108課綱之前的做法是說申請學校就是你如果達到申請那間學校的標準的時候給你幾個月讓你去準備備審資料以前的做法是這樣可是後來把它改成說有一些可能教育專家吧認為說那這樣學生壓力太大要他在兩三個月之內就要準備那麼多資料啊那乾脆就讓他高一就開始"},{"start":14519.992,"end":14544.413,"text":"高一就開始結果反而就造成我剛剛講的那個狀況那我再提一個數據啦我相信教育部應該很清楚學習歷程檔案現在越來越大家不想教最新的數據學習成果的未提交比例都接近五成了在高一的時候高一喔高一還是應該是比較聽話的時候剛進到這個環境還願意配合這個體制到高三可能七成多不想教啊"},{"start":14545.393,"end":14570.487,"text":"所以這個學期歷程檔案真的是應該到了檢討的時候他是不是真的有必要讓學生做這件事情不僅是對很多人覺得白費時間願意準備的白費時間然後很多人是乾脆不理那請問一下這個有達到當初你想要做學期歷程檔案的目的嗎部長這個跟你也沒關係啦我覺得大家也要就事問事因為這個不是你推的"},{"start":14571.107,"end":14592.189,"text":"但是既然在這個位置上面假設其他人推的東西遇到了問題那是不是由你來解決那你也是功德一件嗎跟委員報告確實我們現在也看到因為少子化以後我們大學供給量遠大於需求量所以有一定的一個程度委員剛才也提到了就是說他不需要靠"},{"start":14593.223,"end":14621.208,"text":"那个学习历程档案他就可以进入到大学我们现在已经折成这个大学入学考试这个委员会跟高中端做一个针对这个学习历程档案在政策上做一个认真的一个讨论看到底要有什么样的一个因应与时俱进的一个方法简单来讲比如说如果有一些大学他事实上他就从不管申请申请入学或者特殊选材里边"},{"start":14622.421,"end":14648.495,"text":"或者繁星他已經不需要用到或者有一些大學他心要真正去看學生的一個學習歷程檔案我們還是希望認真的來思考這個學習歷程檔案對他們的選材跟學生的一個未來的發展上搭的一個價值性因為現在是多元入學啦有的入學方式本來就不用學習歷程檔案嘛比如你考分科就不用學習歷程檔案但是我們現在對我現在是針對"},{"start":14649.736,"end":14668.344,"text":"申請入學的部分嘛學測加上學習程檔案的部分嘛那這個部分很多人認為說也不需要嘛然後還有你會造成學生的負擔嘛他高一高二就開始做對 高一高二就開始做結果他因為學測沒考好就全部都白做啦那為什麼不能恢復像以前一樣"},{"start":14669.484,"end":14688.56,"text":"就是說他要申請在備審資料就好為什麼要強迫他們高一高二就要做那當然你們會講說什麼高一高二就可以來做的話校園什麼什麼自主探索啊什麼那你們去評估一下他的成效呢那這個其實也有對老師增加負擔嘛因為學生要做要上傳老師也要看"},{"start":14689.321,"end":14701.968,"text":"所以如果一件事情大家都認為說他沒有達到你當初設定的目標反而製造一些困擾的時候對老師、對學生都有困擾的時候那這個東西還有必要持續下去嗎?我現在是講這件事情好不好,那一樣啦這個學紀念檔案"},{"start":14709.811,"end":14735.689,"text":"每次講都說會思考會研議會什麼我們壓一個日期好不好你是不是可以在什麼時間點把你們的決定或者是怎麼改良要繼續還是怎麼做給大家一個報告好不好各位委員報告針對這個學習歷程檔案其實我們每個月都有召開所謂的剛海部長所說的考照聯動小組的檢討但是在裡面還沒有形成一個比較完善還是有人認為說根據108課剛還是要讓學生提報這個所謂的學習"},{"start":14740.152,"end":14757.944,"text":"但是也有部分的學者專家就如同委員剛才所說的可以做一些調整跟改變那雙方還沒有具體的共識這個我們會持續的市長我們不能等了啦如果要等到全世界人大家意見都一致的話那這個事情可能可能118課剛剛都出來了啦"},{"start":14759.464,"end":14779.471,"text":"你壓一個日期就決定嘛利大於弊還怎麼樣就要做一個決定的不是讓他一直拖啦當然你們的感覺都是一動不如一進嘛可是現在這個問題就衍生出來很多人在抱怨嘛你要做一個決斷嘛那你如果認為說這個東西好要繼續你也跟社會大眾公布一下啊你壓一個日期沒關係壓一個日期三個月內"},{"start":14783.272,"end":14803.519,"text":"利弊分析提供給那個利弊分析之外要告訴大家說怎麼做啦好不好具體的做法啦好不好具體的做法啦好謝謝好是葉元之委員部長署長請回座好接下來有請吳立華召委"},{"start":14810.647,"end":14836.793,"text":"謝謝主席有請鄭部長還有袁明慧好有請鄭部長袁明慧委員好部長好辛苦了部長我不曉得您知不知道原住民的人口目前佔全國總數"},{"start":14840.029,"end":14855.827,"text":"的比例你知道嗎不到3%這是很聰明的回答那我跟部長來說明其實在我們看那個數據2004年的時候"},{"start":14859.006,"end":14862.627,"text":"我们全国人数有2269万人到了2013年2337万人但是2026年呢下滑到2328万人"},{"start":14874.571,"end":14892.688,"text":"相對的我們來看原住民的人口數他從44.3萬爬升到53.2萬再爬升到現在的62.9萬那如果以比例來看的話呢在2004年到現在2026年他從1.9%"},{"start":14897.212,"end":14918.65,"text":"來到2.2%再來到現在的2.7%所以剛才的部長的回答是非常有智慧的3%以下那我覺得部長如果您看到這樣的數據你會不會覺得原住民沒有少子化的現象對國家很有貢獻部長您覺得如何"},{"start":14923.993,"end":14948.702,"text":"我想原住民的這些族群事實上在我心目中充滿創意而且才華橫溢我有許多同學他們就展現這樣的不管從藝術或者從文學從社會觀有很多另外我們也看到台灣現在"},{"start":14950.183,"end":14977.732,"text":"有一定比例的我們在所謂的在世界上看到台灣的貢獻台灣之光事實上也是來自於我們原住民並且包含經典賽包含許多的這些國際的運動這個競技上的一些我們光是看每一次出國比賽的棒球隊大概都有一半50%的比例是原住民所以確實很有貢獻您提到如果101大樓"},{"start":14980.752,"end":14994.886,"text":"雖然不是原住民去攀登的但是101大樓是很多原住民去蓋的甚至是目前勞動部統計全國前五大的缺工行業"},{"start":14996.127,"end":15022.121,"text":"恰恰是原住民的前五大投入的行业所以没有人要做的都是原住民在做确实对我们这个国家贡献很大但是我们要靠教育翻身所以在我们的原教法的第十一条特别这样子写着中央政府因宽列预算专款办理原住民主教育其比率"},{"start":15022.901,"end":15040.547,"text":"合计不得少于中央教育主管机关预算总额1.9%并依其需求逐年成长这个是2004年的法条所以呢在2013年的时候呢我们把它修到了2.2%"},{"start":15043.608,"end":15061.938,"text":"這個是10年的一個調整但是又過了13年到現在又時隔13年我們的比例又來到了2.7%想要了解一下部長您覺得在您的任內該不該做這樣的調整"},{"start":15063.666,"end":15079.576,"text":"我想謝謝委員關心原住民的許多的教育的一些經費那確實我們這些年在根據法令上的一個編制我們以15年來講已經到2.54那如果就人口比例好像又似乎稍微"},{"start":15080.716,"end":15107.921,"text":"少了一點但是怎麼樣對原住民教育投入更多的一些資源包括對原住民人才的培育我想這教育部基本立場跟委員是一致的好謝謝但我也想聽一聽因為我知道原民會在這一路上應該都是教文處在負責這個業務那想聽一下表示一下意見原民會的意見好謝謝委員對我們原住民族孩子的關心我想"},{"start":15108.92,"end":15127.915,"text":"原教好規定的原住民教育的總經費的1.9%是十三年前修法的時候所訂定不過我們這幾年跟教育部合作已經把我們的年度預算的編列已經達到了2.54已經遠超過法律規定的比例了那我想"},{"start":15129.142,"end":15149.811,"text":"要在法定的修法裡面去把這個比例再提升我們認為目前的現狀是已經有達到這樣的一個實際的需求不過我要提醒的是說因為從去年那個平埔族群身份法通過之後未來今年度開始會有很多很多的平埔族群會回到原住民族的家庭所以"},{"start":15150.091,"end":15168.9,"text":"未來原住民的教育的預算不能以現在的人口數來算應該是要再考慮未來平衡處境加入之後會有更多的需求會加進來這個是可能我們跟教育部一起要再來思考的好 謝謝謝謝園民會的一個回應因為我們希望可以開始啟動"},{"start":15170.481,"end":15187.513,"text":"原教法第11條的修正因為也已經隔很久人口比例也往上升那更重要的是我們從目前高教原住民的出債學率跟全體高教生的出債學率那個是斷崖式的差距將近30%"},{"start":15189.754,"end":15208.849,"text":"所以呢我覺得在這個部分需要更多的教育經費來協助我們的原住民的學生那我也謝謝部長長期以來去肯定這樣的做法那接下來就是想要提到的就是為什麼我們需要更多的經費就像陳培宇委員剛剛講的實驗三法"},{"start":15212.452,"end":15230.062,"text":"施行也已經十年了那也需要去做一些討論所以可能會辦公聽會那原住民的部分原住民實驗學校很多也都已經走了一段時間他們也很迷惘不知道下一步何去何從"},{"start":15230.862,"end":15247.433,"text":"那甚至是原住民族學校法被明定在原教法裡面是要定定的執法可是時至今日大家對於什麼是原住民族學校也沒有想法 沒有共識所以也謝謝原民會已經編列經費開始做事辦但是這些都很需要更多的原住民的教育經費來支撐所以在這個部分就特別的要請部長來支持"},{"start":15258.78,"end":15279.227,"text":"那因為今天也排了一個就是關於教師法第25條的一個審查那這個是源自於這些年發生了一件事因為109年修訂的這個教師解聘辦法就是有了校事會議這個名稱校園事件處理法"},{"start":15282.668,"end":15304.097,"text":"那麼到了112年的時候呢為了要說避免同一個事件重複的調查不同的機制運作有不同的調查結果本來是好意啦所以希望把性別事件以外的所有失對生的違法事件全部都整合到這個校事會議裡面結果沒有想到美意不成反而變成一場夢魘"},{"start":15310.52,"end":15333.169,"text":"那我們可以看到我們也有請教育部幫我們做統計才實施校事會議的這樣的一個整合型結果短短一年發現原來80%的投訴案件是不成立的而且成立的當中呢其實只有50%是需要申借的那其他呢"},{"start":15333.849,"end":15362.184,"text":"造成我們老師這麼樣的一個動盪所以在這邊我們就是要提到說我們必須要把老師的尊嚴找回來那我也知道部長您上任以來其實我覺得啦其實你的回應是算不錯的當我們說要啟動校事會議的討論其實我們也討論了而且1月也已經公告新的包括分流包括"},{"start":15362.904,"end":15386.709,"text":"不處理匿名的包括要怎麼樣去新增輔佐的機制等等但是我想要請教一下部長因為還是有人喊廢除校事會議還是有人這樣喊雖然我們覺得這樣的一個修訂已經回到1、2年之前原來的做法"},{"start":15387.549,"end":15408.961,"text":"但是仍有人發出了廢除校事會議這樣的聲音所以我想跟部長請示一下 請教一下如果明年的一月我們再來統計從一月新實施的這個辦法我們希望明年的一月看到實施的一個結果"},{"start":15409.801,"end":15418.275,"text":"那如果還是不盡理想我不知道部長您會回應他們很多人喊要廢除消失會議這件事嗎"},{"start":15421.633,"end":15442.688,"text":"各位報告 確實我們新的校試法以後我們也一直在掌握 除每個月我們現在目前是每個月在做追蹤 各校因為新的校試法裡面所造成的一些實際的進展請部長報告 現在上路以來的一個月"},{"start":15443.568,"end":15469.976,"text":"對每個月我們現在以後我們每個月在追蹤那在去年的時候當時也感謝委員的關心我們也希望說至少在收集這個新的法實行以後到今年的六月我們希望在今年的暑假至少有一個半年的觀察期看它的一個效益怎麼樣然後再有一個假設大家還覺得可以更精進我們再有一個新的一個想像"},{"start":15470.656,"end":15498.051,"text":"謝謝部長開放的態度那因為我們有高級中等以下學校教師大概有21萬人那其實大家也都很關注這件事但是至少我還是要肯定部長因為關於找回老師尊嚴這件事情有很多事情喊了很久包括調升導師費啊終點費的調升啊行政加急的調升啊還有擴大這些偏鄉教師的保險啊然後甚至是談到"},{"start":15499.572,"end":15523.91,"text":"年資的採計或者是終點費的調生要涵蓋到教學支援人員還有包括偏鄉久任獎金一直調一直調現在的態度應該是幾乎有反應其實都接納了所以從這個部分其實我們看得出來部長您確實是抱持著一個非常開放的態度那在這裡我們就是希望說"},{"start":15525.131,"end":15553.54,"text":"我們還有一件事沒做就是今天要排審的教師法的第25條我們希望對於這些被停聘然後呢復聘回復名譽我覺得最起碼該有的尊嚴就是全心還給他那至於其他的部分像家籍的部分我想人種主計種也都在這邊但是我們想要特別強調"},{"start":15555.08,"end":15570.097,"text":"教師幸福感的調查為什麼親子天下會來做調查就是因為我們發現這一兩年特別特別老師的聲音就是斷崖式的滑落已經有"},{"start":15571.993,"end":15596.579,"text":"一半的老師覺得不幸福然後這個問卷是有意義的因為是回收了5412份問卷然後有超過六成的老師是想要離開教職所以這個時候我希望在我們討論教師法第25條的時候我們希望我們的各個機關各個代表都能夠秉持著一個開放的態度"},{"start":15598.18,"end":15616.74,"text":"來讓老師的尊嚴至少能夠回復我們不知道怎麼回復他的名譽但是我們至少要回復他這段時間所損失的我想這是最基本的那部長不曉得你的態度如何謝謝委員關心我們老師的一個權益包括他的名義上怎麼樣去維護"},{"start":15618.081,"end":15636.97,"text":"我的想法跟委員的一個看法是一致的我們也希望說怎麼樣讓老師能夠更安心因為當他將心比心當他變成被不實的指控或者誤解而造成的一些訴訟後來恢復他基本上不是規則而已我覺得是應該給他全心好"},{"start":15639.812,"end":15651.953,"text":"謝謝部長在這邊就我們就等下午的排審好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席好 謝謝吳麗華教委部長跟署長請回"},{"start":15664.203,"end":15689.848,"text":"依照先前的宣告我們先來處理臨時提案今天提出的臨時提案有一案那請問提案委員我們先請宣讀臨時提案內國民教育階段部分男性學生面臨學習退縮情緒壓抑作為孤立及暴力風險增加等男性困境並形成有毒的男子氣概"},{"start":15691.564,"end":15709.269,"text":"為現行課程與教師培訓能缺乏系統性的男性困境研究與教材教育部如何具體落實形成相關教材如何在學校進行推廣周知教師培訓及鼓勵社會討論同時針對如何形成教材如何鼓勵社會討論手術"},{"start":15710.569,"end":15712.37,"text":"請問提案委員有沒有補充說明或意見"},{"start":15726.401,"end":15741.767,"text":"好 謝謝主席我來說明一下這個提案是本席所提雖然我們是女性也十分關心這個男性的困境這個議題所以希望教育部要作為教育主管機關能給你相關的教育對策讓這個社會對這個現象有更多的認識"},{"start":15744.528,"end":15768.496,"text":"那近年來在學術界其實男性困境這個詞開始有比較多的討論那特別是台灣男性協會這個等團體在那個論述中有被凸顯出來就許多男性他感受到自己竟已經失去在父權結構中的那種特權位置那又沒有被清楚的提供新的角色的典範因而會產生一種被責備卻找不出口的這種焦慮狀態"},{"start":15774.438,"end":15789.971,"text":"那台灣男性協會有觀察到這個台灣的性別平等跟女性的主義發展其實已經讓很多的女生女性清楚可以做自己的空間那但同時社會對男性的期待卻沒有同步的鬆動"},{"start":15791.212,"end":15809.378,"text":"所以許多的男性在伴侶跟家庭關係中被要求也要溝通 要溫柔要承擔情緒勞動可是他卻缺乏被教導如何做這件事的資源或者是支持所以說男性困境不只是變得比較弱勢"},{"start":15810.658,"end":15834.508,"text":"而且它更是一種在傳統跟當代的價值之間的拉扯的那種未知的模糊那我覺得這種多重的矛盾變成了是男性困境的結構性的面向那我想不只是單一男生的問題喔這是整套社會對男人應該怎麼做的規範跟期待沒有同步被調整跟翻新所帶來的狀況"},{"start":15835.908,"end":15858.4,"text":"所以最後我要強調的是傳統對男性的期待擁有的什麼男子氣概其實是對很多男性來說我覺得他們也是受害者所以因此我就希望教育部可以研擬這個相關的各教育階段的教學對策讓這個社會更認識男性困境這些議題 以上請問教育部有沒有補充說明"},{"start":15865.444,"end":15868.126,"text":"好 招案通過臨時提案處理完畢 繼續我們請劉淑斌委員質詢劉淑 換了有請楊瓊英委員詢答 請"},{"start":15891.684,"end":15895.226,"text":"我們共同來討論教師荒的問題因為我們看到教師荒他不是未來的他是現在正在發生的這個危機所以請教教育部長"},{"start":15915.512,"end":15941.218,"text":"目前已經出現了結構性教師人力的一個危機那這個出現的現象本期來綜合幾項第一個教師增試的時候報名人數他是下降的但是我們在錄取率上升但仍然是補不滿甚至出現了有分科別的部分部分科別的部分是開缺但是沒有人來報考"},{"start":15942.538,"end":15959.561,"text":"那如果說連想當老師的人都在減少的時候那我們教育部在整個培育的制度是不是有出現了失靈的這個狀況那第二個我要提出更嚴重的問題是人留不住"},{"start":15960.402,"end":15987.372,"text":"人留不住那第一件的教師呢反應最直接他說工作負擔過重還有加上行政壓力爆炸尤其是導師加行政的雙重負擔所以各類的這個評鑑填報工作它是不斷的在增加所以本期要請教教育部你是不是有一個整體的人力重建的這個計畫"},{"start":15988.902,"end":16017.576,"text":"因為如果制度不改那未來還要有人願意當老師嗎如果現在的現象已經產生那我們的教育我們的制度到底要怎麼改因為教師荒它不只是教育的問題它更是國安的一個議題所以本席認為我們要怎麼樣支持老師不讓他有這些的困境也就是國家的競爭力才能夠不流失"},{"start":16018.457,"end":16019.181,"text":"我要請教部長"},{"start":16022.253,"end":16047.14,"text":"謝謝委員關心我們老師的培育跟老師的穩定性首先我要跟委員報告我們教師人才人力上的流失當然有因素是複雜的譬如說每30年一個世代117年從民國57年到現在剛好第二個世代交替這是一個原因第二個我們在這個產業上"},{"start":16049.16,"end":16064.691,"text":"產業上我們當然是科技產業真的是蓬勃發展他也吸引了許多steam的老師第三個我們在私私的培育從過去我們這一個等於說工會的一個從師大工會的制度我們缺多少老師就"},{"start":16065.552,"end":16084.446,"text":"招考的招多少的學生來儲備但是我們現在完全是儲備制多元施施多元從民國83年開放以後我們的老師就是我們以現在來講我們施施的培育的供給量事實上是遠大於需求量這個我也必須要先說明那最近"},{"start":16085.959,"end":16108.353,"text":"特別在去年我們看到許多代理老師會大量的缺失因為來自於我們要希望能夠確保國民教育的品質國教雖然少子化但是我們希望各校不要有太多比例的代理代課老師儘管他們裡邊也有很多熱情有使命感的所以我們國教從1111年到1114年裡邊"},{"start":16109.634,"end":16133.4,"text":"特別透過這個只要各校保留8%因為我們看到地方縣市教育這個中小學當然有的這個代理老師占到20幾% 30幾%我們希望穩定這個老師的一個教育品質老師能夠最多控留因應潮汁或控留8%所以呢從11年開始"},{"start":16133.8,"end":16143.532,"text":"由國教署來補助地方教育局處經會如果你學校只控留在8%改善了等於說你要開始"},{"start":16145.446,"end":16163.364,"text":"這個釋放出更多的正規的合格的教師的缺那麼從111年開始每年大概都補了五千個等於111、121、113、114這樣裡面這四年裡面大概原來代理代課老師有兩萬個大概幾乎都到"},{"start":16164.245,"end":16190.107,"text":"變成正式缺的老師所以呢我們變成有一些原來代理代課的老師他確實是會有一些不足再加上譬如說以台北市非常嚴重大家都看到的一些媒體的報導因為台北市在過去代理代課老師他是給一年的一個薪資當法院判定各地方縣市我們22地方縣市有的給9個月有的給10個月"},{"start":16192.549,"end":16219.806,"text":"並沒有像台北市一年當我們這一個制度一改變全部代理代課都要給一年的薪資的時候台北市的物價生活資格方面當然他就比不上這個因為條件都一樣了所以呢有一定比例的年輕人他當然要從事教職他有熱情他就回到他自己的這個自己的故鄉裡邊我想他是有多樣的一個原因在"},{"start":16220.974,"end":16243.155,"text":"在滚动那当然我们也看到偏乡的离岛的比如说原住民地区我们开始从去年就请屏东大学里边开原住民专班工会专班我们也看到steam的一些课也请台湾师大去开一些这个工会的专班除了这个以外我们还有一些学士或专班"},{"start":16243.675,"end":16265.205,"text":"甚至對這個偏鄉離島的這些代理代課老師他沒有教育學問我們甚至開線上的一個課程我們事實上是從整體的整體的一個系統裡面去看私私的培育包括世代的一個交替我們希望在這個部分培養出來的老師一方面解決我們許多熱情老師能夠留在"},{"start":16266.543,"end":16292.326,"text":"這一個中小學繼續這一個為台灣培養人才另外一個我們開始更大量的培養這一個各領域的這一個所謂的實施人才比如說包含steam的steam的這樣的一個人才那當然我也利用這個機會要拜託我們地方政府怎麼樣當教育部培養足夠的這樣的一個各領域的人才實施人力的時候我們地方怎麼樣去"},{"start":16293.686,"end":16322.225,"text":"透過一個攬財的一個機制跟流財的一個機制讓許多我們年輕人能夠繼續為台灣培養人才來一起努力一起為台灣做出本席之所以願意要給部長你大概三分鐘的時間去說明但是我們看到你目前所有的政策跟制度跟執行還是一個問題叫是謊所以我本席認為說我們當政府制定了制度之後"},{"start":16323.226,"end":16344.864,"text":"制定的制度在執行的同時你必須要去看到目前的現況到底是如何如果依照剛剛部長你所說的那沒有辦法去解決我們現在所稱的教師荒所以呢還好你知道問題在哪裡那這個問題因為你身為我們教育的最大的這個機構"},{"start":16347.026,"end":16351.269,"text":"所以更應當要從中怎麼樣去嚴明方案能夠落實到目前家長學校等沒有教師荒的這個隱憂這才是我們要的所以我願意給你這麼多的時間來說明也就是到目前為止我們的制度你要怎麼去調整我還是一句話本席說我們希望協助學校"},{"start":16373.123,"end":16399.763,"text":"協助我們的家長協助我們的教師他不是教師荒三個字一直印記在我們的社會在我們的教育當中所以我具體的建議請你把你剛剛目前所說的你預計的KPI到底是如何你順便資料給本席我希望把這個教師荒這三個字能夠去除掉真正幫助學校OK嗎你多久時間可以告訴本席多久時間"},{"start":16403.186,"end":16430.378,"text":"根文包括會後我們事實上這個data我們事實上都可以隨時就是因為你這個data要怎麼去調整嘛好不好你既然已經有了你一個禮拜時間給本席接下來本席在主席本席要討論的是說在我們的整個升學制度到底公不公平因為我們一直認為學習歷程我們所強調的是要多元性的一個表現"},{"start":16431.638,"end":16452.254,"text":"而且減輕壓力但是現在似乎有變成了什麼呢有資源的學生他補習競賽包裝成果資源不足的學生他只能夠填寫基本的資料所以本期要請教部長在城鄉學生在鼎大錄取的一個比例差距有沒有持續在擴大"},{"start":16453.695,"end":16478.695,"text":"因為我們制定了這個制度教育最重要的是一個立足點的一個公平資源差異的一個影響評估本期認為必須在一段時間做滾動式的一個調整那我們的目的就是要落實當時設計的公平跟欠壓的目標這是非常重要 請做說明"},{"start":16480.602,"end":16495.928,"text":"謝謝委員關心確實事實上我們當這一個制度在改變的時候我們的城鄉的這些比較鄉區的這些學校的學生錄取鼎大的一個比例事實上是在增加的我想詳細的情形請廖市長來說說"},{"start":16497.568,"end":16518.617,"text":"跟委員報告因為我們的升學管道現在分很多一個是繁星那繁星其實就是顧及到每校都等值的這樣的一個概念所以不管是城鄉或者是在城市地區的學生的入學率其實是差不多的那再來就是針對學習歷程檔案城鄉之間有沒有差距這我們有進行相關的研究調查是不是會後我們提供給委員做"},{"start":16519.397,"end":16545.929,"text":"所以部長就針對城鄉差距在這個部分跟社會階級落差的這個部分本是非常重視你們必須要滾動式的去檢討最後一個功課我要請教因為3月23號教育部跟司法院跟法務部有開了公聽會也就針對校園暴力的這個問題精神狀況不穩學生的事件那家長請問的一句話"},{"start":16546.829,"end":16569.927,"text":"孩子在学校是真的安全吗这句话在我们的教育这个层面来说是不应当有这样子的话语因为我们一定要让我们的孩子安全所以目前为止我们教育部似乎都停滞在个案的一个处理所以本期要请教部长3月23号的公听会也就是针对于"},{"start":16570.487,"end":16590.552,"text":"是不是有專輔機構讓暴力強制去在專輔機構裡頭來協助讓原本的校園能夠安全也讓教師能夠有權責的來處理這是我們在維護我們孩子的安全那目前為止早上我也特別在法治委員會也請問了這個"},{"start":16595.273,"end":16620.058,"text":"這個法務部他是跟你的立場是贊同來設置專輔機構但是司法還是認為有疑慮所以我特別要請部長站在你的立場你是贊成的教育部是贊成的是不是要更積極的三方再去會合還給家長讓孩子在校園安全的一個放心請教部長"},{"start":16627.458,"end":16642.543,"text":"對於這些有暴力或是一些情緒困擾的這些學生怎麼樣有一個更個別化的一些安置跟教育的方案我想這都是一直我們在試驗"},{"start":16645.882,"end":16670.46,"text":"好謝謝這個願意三方趕快再會合還給校園的一個安全謝謝好謝謝楊瓊英委員請部長回座接下來有請劉淑斌委員詢答好謝謝主席那有請鄭部長好有請鄭部長"},{"start":16677.984,"end":16696.78,"text":"委員好部長好那我們知道去年呢 教育部調高了國中小的導師費還有包括監政的這個終點費並增訂了行政獎金 這就提高了但是獨立了以工作為終點計時的這個專輔教師那請問這部分"},{"start":16702.506,"end":16712.099,"text":"因為這部分我在1月19號的時候也做了這樣一個質詢部長你那時候說應該要跟人事行動總署來做研議才可以知道那現在過了70天請問現在研議進度是怎麼樣有什麼結果嗎"},{"start":16718.34,"end":16740.757,"text":"跟委員報告我們現在目前確實在這個專輔老師因為他的一個工作性質事實上是跟中小學老師是不一樣的他並沒有一節一節的他是個案在結果案裡面您的現在進度是怎麼樣還沒有研議結果出現嗎我們目前並沒有並沒有一個具體的有在研議嗎"},{"start":16742.059,"end":16762.917,"text":"有有有那大概什麼時候要做研議跟委員報告剛剛部長已經特別有說明接到委員這樣一個垂詢之後部長立即請我們就各類老師包含甚至剛才柯恩老師的一個情形我們都做研議包含地方政府的態度所以這一些可能因為一點時間要收斂具體的講"},{"start":16764.358,"end":16792.77,"text":"像目前你采个案认定以现在学校在认定个案上二级辅导它的认定的情形或是个案数量你可能它有它的复杂性小校有小校的复杂性六师班的学校跟六班的学校所以你要花很多时间吗这个可能要有22县市政府有经验的这些福祉中心可能要给我们一点时间但我觉得这一类的演绎很有价值它得要走过这个过程没有办法一下跳到那个答案"},{"start":16794.77,"end":16817.456,"text":"可能給我們兩個月從1月19號您問了之後那兩個月我們已經有初步了解到縣市對這件事的可能的態度但還有專業的團體以及現在我們剛剛有講到的五個議題在4月份會跟地方政府一起談整體的相關的會商那個會商會比較大規模會涉及到剛剛您提到的這個議題好"},{"start":16819.236,"end":16842.834,"text":"那包括上他非上班時間的這個加班他這部分也是會考量去一去就對了這個比較細節的會等到所有研議的那個議案會從上層一直到中層或下層這個逐個議題再來一起探討好 謝謝那我們又聽到的是因為中央呢在輔資中心的這個安排上面呢這個中央因為"},{"start":16844.356,"end":16870.297,"text":"才化法的一個理由然後減少了對縣市的這樣的輔資中心的一個補助從87%降少為到50%以下那這部分呢結果那個他的督導的能量就不夠了那請問可是這個民眾的學生他自己的一個心理的健康的需求是很重要的他還是都有需求嗎那預計用哪些措施來跟各縣市政府合作來照顧到孩子們的這個心理健康呢"},{"start":16872.625,"end":16894.571,"text":"跟各位人報告那委員剛剛關心的涉及到補助比率以及在相關的補助下怎麼樣強化中央地方的合作那首先因為在財劃法的確我很坦率地講國教署的經費是最直接跟地方政府有關那跟這一波的財劃法也是直接相關我們被大概整體調雲了大概138億所以相關的這個補助的設算會變動"},{"start":16900.12,"end":16907.195,"text":"那地方政府我們隨便抽取四個直轄市有兩個直轄市增加400多億有兩個直轄市增加"},{"start":16909.879,"end":16935.692,"text":"300億有一個省轄市增加200億有一個第一級的縣市增加188億地方政府應該把錢撥出來讓大家出來是不是可能就會照委員講的我們會有一些在第一個議題上在經費的整體的運作上會有一些溝通第二點可能在即便這樣的一個情況下部長還是站在整個國家往前學生的利益最大的話所以這裡面會有一些措施"},{"start":16936.192,"end":16961.697,"text":"仍然在不變的情況下還會往前進例如最新修的輔導法在輔導室的功能還有各處是包含普特融合輔導室統整功能等等這新一波的執法都在運作中那這也是新修的學生輔導法之後的四個執法那在併同四月份可能還有一個新的執法以及相關的補助要點都會來運用在這些措施的強化 謝謝"},{"start":16962.677,"end":16981.168,"text":"好 謝謝我們看到國教署有這樣的用心發現到這個才化法上面的分配精粹上面的也願意做這樣的相關執法的再把它補充進去好 謝謝那最後一個問題就是涉及到我們關心到大專的部分就在大學呢每900位的學生才分配到一名具有心理師跟社工師資格的這個專輔人員"},{"start":16982.509,"end":17005.043,"text":"但是這些專輔人員他們事實上在三年這個就算九任了啦流動率就非常高尤其看到他們最終把行政負擔過多雜務也過多這些部分薪資當然不如預期因為一個諮商師可能一個小時就是一兩千塊的這樣子的一個費用那現在想要問的是說如果降低大學薪輔人員的流動率這部分那請這邊部長是不是能夠做回答"},{"start":17008.078,"end":17035.473,"text":"跟委員報告有關大專幸福人員的這個部分其實我們在去年就有提高我們相關的經費補助那像國立的部分我們就是提高到一個人要55萬然後私立的部分一個人是提高到65萬其實我們光是今年補助給大專校園的這個幸福人力就經費就高達3億多了那這個部分我們也會持續跟各學校來一起合作然後看怎麼樣的措施可以讓這些人可以繼續留任那你們這個是專款專用嗎"},{"start":17037.074,"end":17038.074,"text":"謝謝劉淑冰委員的質詢 請部長回座下一位有請邱惠如委員"},{"start":17069.093,"end":17074.086,"text":"主席還有各位委員同仁還有各位政府部門的同仁大家好那我們有請鄭部長請鄭部長"},{"start":17081.789,"end":17088.312,"text":"今天我站在這邊是想替偏遠地區的校戶來請命因為似乎感覺政府忘了校戶的存在我們講一下其實針對偏遠地區因為人才有容易流失的問題"},{"start":17103.9,"end":17117.871,"text":"所以呢我們這個學校的偏遠地區學校教育發展條例就規範說為了挽留這些專業人力在偏遠地區所以呢有規範的9任獎金那部長不知道您知不知道這件事9任獎金是"},{"start":17132.689,"end":17151.29,"text":"確實我們九任獎金從教育部來講我們當然學校裡面第一個思考的就是老師、校長、主任這些嘛那確實也因為這樣校務或者過去有一些輔導人員在這個部分就被社工人力的一個在校園裡面就被忽略"},{"start":17151.95,"end":17163.28,"text":"因為它涉及到權序部跟人事總署所以我們必須要考量所有人員上的一些性質跟設立的一些特性所以我想這個還有待一些跨部會的一些討論部長謝謝你的回覆那你剛剛提到說教師要關照到"},{"start":17170.206,"end":17181.094,"text":"可是事實上這個偏遠的地區學校教育發展條例他關照到的不是只有教師而已他關照到是10類的人員10類的人員而我們校護卻不在這10類人員的範圍之內關照的人非常的多可是我們"},{"start":17187.538,"end":17205.924,"text":"我們校戶卻被獨排於外那我想這裡呈現出來的關照道的人有教師有校長那還有專聘教師代理教師專業您剛講的專業輔導人員其實他有被包括在裡面那社工人員也有包括在裡面那除此之外副社的幼兒園當中的園長"},{"start":17209.125,"end":17224.863,"text":"老師教保員助理教保員都有在這個9任獎金的發放範圍之內但是獨弄我們這個校戶難道我們校戶真的在這個政府部門的眼中這麼的不重要嗎可以獨排於這10項人員之外"},{"start":17227.213,"end":17255.419,"text":"我想我的心情跟委員是一致的校務當然是重要的它是在穩定學校的學童的一些健康的一個力量所以我同意這一個部分在校務裡面我們怎麼樣來努力或者用怎麼樣的方式因為剛才特別提到專業的輔導老師代理代課老師這都是我們教育部可以直接做為的但是因為校務基本上它的一個整個任用"},{"start":17256.997,"end":17281.738,"text":"沒有他的任用其實這10類人員的任用跟校戶也可以相提並論為什麼其他的人有校戶沒有那我們看到這些9任獎金其實雖然不是說金額非常的巨大但是至少也能夠撫慰校戶感覺好像被不公平對待的一個心情有相對剝奪感已經出現了因為別人都有但校戶都沒有那這些數字"},{"start":17282.358,"end":17301.18,"text":"好這些數字真的是既看不到也吃不到那再請那個署長幫我們來做一個說明謝謝委員給我們這個說明我用10秒簡單的說明剛剛講的幾類人員他屬於部長或是國教署或是地方政府教育單位可以直接做決定而不涉及到相關單位人員"},{"start":17302.862,"end":17312.576,"text":"今天如果在包含衛福部、全序部在看校護護理師這個角色的時候可能也會讓我們去顧慮要我們也多幫忙去思考校護之外的護理人員"},{"start":17317.884,"end":17334.145,"text":"那種也有在偏遠地區譬如說衛生所等等所以這個是不是容我們也做一些討論因此在當時的第21條他大概有這些顧慮之後希望教育部處理教育部能處理的部分不過剛剛部長已經有說可以再去約相關單位大家一起再討論這涉及到21條"},{"start":17336.288,"end":17362.409,"text":"相關單位討論那什麼時候可以給我們時間表因為那個署長您剛有提到嘛好像關照到學校的校戶然後就好像也會連帶的被質疑說衛生所為什麼沒有我想衛生所他們全也要把關但是我們現在是在講校園裡頭的情境其他10類人員都有了獨排校戶沒有我覺得這個可以不用扯到衛生所人員的事情去我們就是在校園裡頭我們先處理校園裡頭一件事這是第一件事"},{"start":17365.231,"end":17380.258,"text":"那第二件事其實我們偏遠地區的學校教育發展條例第九條有提到說中央政府其實是有補助地方政府某些經費的那其中有一個項目就是第九條第一項提到說這個合理的配置這個"},{"start":17381.318,"end":17405.802,"text":"護理人員然後還有協助他們的專業發展所以9任獎金的裁員就來自於第9條第2項那第1項又提到銷戶那不知道為什麼前面有關照到銷戶就第9條然後21條卻沒有關照到銷戶這是我的疑問那剛也提到您也提到說願意研議嗎那事實上早在你們願意研議之前因為銷戶一直來跟我請命那我也提出這個修正的草案那修正的草案我就在第21條的第2項把銷戶納進去了那剛你們"},{"start":17409.423,"end":17412.097,"text":"提出願意演繹 那不曉得這邊可不可以給我們一個具體的時間表"},{"start":17414.991,"end":17421.496,"text":"我們在一個月內其實對這個議題我們也覺得 像剛剛布朗講的這個護理師如果在我們的偏鄉服務那麼久看怎麼樣不會衝擊到其他的我們可以照顧好那這個是不是給我們一個月我們會約時間但這個一個月是約了以後談一下方向所以他逐步會往前進的過程或洽談的過程我們再回報委員中間的一些商議結果"},{"start":17440.711,"end":17469.013,"text":"沒有問題謝謝教育部願意帶回去研議那也希望在不久的將來就是教育部這邊跟我這邊我們能夠聯手來守護校護的一些權益然後保障偏遠地區學生的健康這樣子以上謝謝好謝謝邱惠如委員的質詢請部長回座接下來有請廖先祥委員廖先祥委員廖先祥委員不在鄭正前委員鄭正前委員鄭正前委員不在"},{"start":17469.753,"end":17480.667,"text":"有請李昆城委員巡查好 謝謝主席 我們請鄭部長好 有請鄭部長"},{"start":17488.289,"end":17507.889,"text":"部長好,辛苦了這個質詢到現在那我先想跟部長討論一下這個校園暴力的問題那在2023年12月的時候發生的這個新北校園的這個戈井案那這個案子最後在2026年今年2月定宴那其中的這一個郭楠被判"},{"start":17508.93,"end":17526.02,"text":"12年,教說的連女被判刑11年這已經定讞了這件事情也引起了說大家要對於說這個少年事件處理法要修法的一個問題那在今年3月又發生了這個國中生一個國中女生被履棒的霸凌的案子"},{"start":17526.92,"end":17549.708,"text":"就是說我們當然希望說藉由這個教育然後藉由這個家庭然後學校我們一起來讓這個校園暴力的這個案子能夠減少那但是呢少年事件處理法那的確也到了一個修法的一個有這個必要性那我先請教一下部長那現在就是說對於這個少年事件處理法"},{"start":17550.228,"end":17567.034,"text":"因為過去有這個一律塗銷前科那就是說你只要滿三年那你沒有再犯就一律塗銷前科那現在民間團體是希望說能夠採取這個按照這個他犯罪的這個輕重才分級這個來塗銷動態註記那我想請教一下這個部長的看法"},{"start":17575.778,"end":17596.576,"text":"這個我想從教育來看我們當然希望說人能夠給他犯錯給他有一個機會但是就這裡邊的一個塗銷他可能還是涉及到這個司法院相關的一些我是想說因為您是教育部的部長那您的看法會跟這個因為這個問題我有問過司法院"},{"start":17599.018,"end":17622.432,"text":"那他當然現在他們的這個修法是希望說採這個分罪的輕重比如說他如果是犯重罪的話那可能這個塗銷的時間會有分這個等級時間不同那就教育部的立場來看您對於這個上年事件處理法的修法是抱持什麼樣的態度那對於這個民間團體他們希望採取這個前科分級塗銷那您的態度怎麼樣"},{"start":17623.728,"end":17643.906,"text":"這裡邊譬如說這個如果是來自一個輕罪微罪他一時的一個糊塗所犯下的就是說不會涉及到生命上的一些傷害我想我從教育的立場當然我會我會傾向這一個支持但是屬於重大型案應該他必須要對"},{"start":17644.887,"end":17661.666,"text":"行為付出責任這種法令上他應該要承擔的我是認為以目前這樣委員所提供的這一個圖示來看我基本上是認同的所以部長也認同就是說我們按照這個罪行的輕重再來決定說是不是要分級來做這個前科的圖效是"},{"start":17666.141,"end":17691.018,"text":"那其實除了這個法律之外其實我們也希望從家庭教育還有從專業的社工心理師一起來努力希望說這個是最後的就是說因為你犯法之後那你怎麼樣去處理說犯罪這個青少年之後怎麼在社會上立足我們其實教育的這部分是更重要是說在"},{"start":17692.119,"end":17708.919,"text":"這個校園暴力還沒發生之前我們要做什麼預算我想這才是最重要的包括這是個大課題今天很短時間沒有辦法跟部長討論那麼多那有另外一個問題想請教一下部長就是校園交通安全那校園交通安全就是說因為在前幾天"},{"start":17709.7,"end":17734.988,"text":"發生在這個長庚大學的這個校區裡面那有一輛這個三重客運的公車它其實算是違規然後這個押到了這一個一個20歲的這一個學生那這個學生目前也還在這個加護病房當中那這其實也不是個案那現在就是說按照這個教育部你們在2024年所做的這一個校園安全災害事件的分析報告裡面光是交通事故"},{"start":17736.508,"end":17749.774,"text":"這個2024年就有608件然後受傷的有864人次那所以說這個其實校園的交通安全的這部分那其實是也值得這個教育部來做處理那可是現在就是說變成說"},{"start":17751.155,"end":17780.453,"text":"教育部跟這個交通部對於這個校園的交通安全的部分目前看來好像是處於一個深不管的地帶就是說這個在一般的道路我們就規範的很明確我們有這個道交條例這個道交的這個處罰條例來做處理但是呢這個在學校裡面其實沒有就放由這個各個學校來做處理那我不曉得說在校園這部分的話那有什麼樣更具體的一個做法那公權力要怎麼去做介入跟委員報告喔"},{"start":17781.013,"end":17805.11,"text":"我們事實上這個校安的通報裡面各大學每年發生多少的所謂的校園的交通安全的事件我們都有記錄的然後我們每一年我們把那個交通安全做得最不安全等於說他校園最不安全了我們會找學者專家去現場去看有沒有來自於基礎設施要怎麼改善要怎麼我們"},{"start":17806.211,"end":17820.448,"text":"會協助他改善從專業來協助他這幾年我們事實上也看到了一些成果原來譬如說去年被列為前十大前三名的今年看起來因為改善以後他就沒有了我想這個部分會後我再"},{"start":17820.928,"end":17849.728,"text":"把這個資料給委員我們更正向的 積極的去協助學校的改善我希望這個數字能夠減少嘛但是就是說剛剛部長所提到的應該就是一些譬如說硬體設備的一些改善道路的一些視角的一些改善當然他學校也應該要正視這個學生的行程安全嘛許多的宣導等等的那現在我也希望說交通部能夠介入在處理這部分因為現在學校的這個道路不是一般道路啊是"},{"start":17850.348,"end":17866.6,"text":"對啊 就變成說很多屬於這個道教的處罰條例裡面好像沒辦法處罰到這個校園裡面的這個大學其實校園是開放的所以社區民眾或者很多人的進出我想這個部分我們來看你們再跟交通部來"},{"start":17867.521,"end":17887.365,"text":"來怎麼樣來合作來合作怎麼讓公權力可以介入因為現在都是按照各個學校自己去處理那就是說一般道路所適用的規範那是不是在我們校園的道路因為有些校園真的很大是不是能夠一體適用這方面是不是請教育部來跟交通部來做一個協調一下謝謝委員提醒"},{"start":17890.066,"end":17910.07,"text":"好 谢谢李昆成委员的质询请部长回座接下来有请张亚林委员上台询答张亚林委员好 有请张亚林委员上台询答"},{"start":17918.147,"end":17940.372,"text":"謝謝主席 我們有請部長好 有請部長委員好好 非常好我想有一件事情還要先跟部長討論一下就是說前幾天我跟台大社監受害的學生已經召開記者會因為法院已經判處加害人的一些相關刑罰那台北的高人法院"},{"start":17941.192,"end":17964.411,"text":"行政法院更明確的確認台大在性平程序存在違法的問題那我想其實我也可以看到就是教育部在這段時間裡面也做了一些事情也是來要求我們台大但是從114年的10月到115年的3月整個台大還是沒有依法重啟調查那到"},{"start":17965.832,"end":17990.767,"text":"114年的12月你們又再去持續的要求台大限期召開相關的性評會那我想問一個問題就是說我們目前呢也已經要求台大你們由教育部的性評會做成的決議視同台大性評會的決議要求從請調查我想問一下像這樣子的案例由中央來做決議的案例是多的嗎"},{"start":17994.558,"end":18021.457,"text":"這次比較少的比較少見對不對是比較少見的對嗎對好那我想就是說在台大在這個案件上面其實已經出現了嚴重的制度失靈跟行政怠惰那我希望這是一個提醒也要請一個懇求我們的教育部應該好好審視我們現在的校園性平法規是不是應該要有一些地方來做檢討避免有類似的情況再度發生可以嗎"},{"start":18023.098,"end":18050.667,"text":"當然可以的好那再來另外一個問題是有關於特教生的問題就是說我看部長您先看一下您前方的這個表格這個是各地特殊教育他們去分類就是說從11年到113年特教生跟疑似生的一個數據的統計比例可是呢這張的問題在於說我們依據特教法或是特教學生及幼兒鑑定辦法其實沒有所謂的疑似生的一個規範"},{"start":18051.787,"end":18069.142,"text":"而是我們的縣市政府卻有統計疑似身的規範可是呢在我們現行的法規我們對於疑似身是沒有辦法給予相關的支持和補助所以為什麼會有這樣子的疑似身這樣子的身份又代表什麼樣子的意義我們能實際上給他什麼樣的支持呢"},{"start":18071.872,"end":18083.343,"text":"好 我們請蘇亮謝謝韋恩 疑似生他有至少兩個情況第一個 他在過程中或是他原來鑑定沒有過等等但是都給予補助"},{"start":18084.747,"end":18111.434,"text":"我們現在疑似生也都有給予輔助嗎那到底要分特教生跟疑似生的意義到底差別在哪裡疑似生因為他有機會而且很有機會只是在相關的新品或相關的收集資訊上還要比較完善一點但是他看起來其實很多都是需要照顧所以在政府不管中央地方都有給予協助如果有個案我們可以馬上來就文的這個說明來處理"},{"start":18112.554,"end":18140.023,"text":"今天讨论到不是因为个案的问题没问题就应该是说我们现在这种鉴定疑似生的做法对所以我第二个要跟委员报告您看到的那个将近有十一分之一或十分之一这一个我们现在的策略是既然都照顾我们希望县市政府其实能够加快让他变成真正可以直接就叫做特教的需求的孩子在那个疑似生那个阶段不要太久"},{"start":18140.843,"end":18152.43,"text":"不要太久所以盡量把它完整的把它去可以送到是特教生這一邊來那這一個鑑定的相關的規範或是因為它涉及到專業是不是容我們會後把各縣市的情況整理給委員我們的策略也跟委員做個報告"},{"start":18160.195,"end":18177.023,"text":"因為我認為一四升其實並沒有得到相對應的足夠的資源我覺得這還是在各縣市上面存在資源上面的落差同時我也看到台北市在一四升的比例數量其實都是比其他縣市要來得更高我覺得這是一個蠻大的問題"},{"start":18178.183,"end":18207.25,"text":"就變成說像我之前也處理了一些個案就是這些孩子就是永遠都沒有辦法被判定是特殊生可是在醫學判鑑定上面他就是特殊生可是當地的縣市教育局就是不願意給他這樣子的資格所以我不認為一次生的確有得到相對應的補助但這件事情呢我認為是非常重要因為他實際的影響到這個學生他得到的支持以及他可能會造成課間上面老師能不能給予他足夠的正確的支持"},{"start":18207.87,"end":18223.833,"text":"所以除了這個孩子外學生還有其他的學生以及這個老師其實都會因疑似生沒有辦法得到足夠的支持這一個東西我覺得是要徹底的檢討特別還有各縣市對於疑似生的規範也是非常的不一致"},{"start":18224.878,"end":18249.087,"text":"好 所以我想就是這個部分呢等到你們收集好各縣市的資料的時候我們要一起來重新的檢討因為這也是學校的老師跟我反映的問題確實台北市的遺失生有異常的一個多我想這個會後我們來跟台北市跟這個湯局長我們來了解一下到底發生什麼事"},{"start":18250.027,"end":18273.973,"text":"對 因為你看它跟新北市相比因為它是在評估在鑑定在各方面裡面流程跟為什麼就比例上來講為什麼它有異常的高沒錯啊它光是新北市都是好幾倍了啦好不好所以我想這個部分人家麻煩部長關心啦畢竟每個都是我們很重要的孩子那對於這個東西我們有機會在半年內有一個延長的方向嗎可以可以喔好 謝謝"},{"start":18275.401,"end":18293.418,"text":"好謝謝張雅玲委員的質詢請部長回座下一位何新淳委員何新淳委員何新淳委員不在林楚英委員林楚英委員林楚英委員不在下一位請洪孟凱委員上台詢答主席謝謝好主席謝謝麻煩請鄭部長好有請鄭部長"},{"start":18304.465,"end":18322.332,"text":"好 部長我們教育文化委員會同仁大家辛苦本來本席是真的想說中午就趕快但是因為有個案件我真的還是過意不去一定要過來反應跟希望能夠聽到部長正面的答案就是最近發生這個女國中生的一個霸凌事件"},{"start":18322.992,"end":18341.891,"text":"那霸凌的一個影片也在崔上面有在轉傳那當然這個絕對不要傳是因為這可能會造成當事人多次傷害但本席想要講的是說嚴重的霸凌現在的現行制度雖然我們過去已經討論非常久但還是實際有那就變成是說霸凌者他到底有沒有負起應有的責任"},{"start":18343.035,"end":18361.926,"text":"而讓他我們已經有做很多的方向不管是社會安全網不管是校園的一個教導指導等等但是還是有人霸凌那霸凌能不能也要要求霸凌者負起相對應的責任我先請教因為現行的法律制度來講的話他可能會變成是校園裡面調查"},{"start":18364.908,"end":18379.418,"text":"輔導、記點、轉班或是轉校但是他當轉校之後後續他要升學什麼的還是如果他之後變洗白了還是升學那有看到韓國的例子其實韓國過去霸凌也非常嚴重"},{"start":18380.612,"end":18409.853,"text":"部長你應該也理解嘛韓國他們在2025年2026年開始有列入校園霸凌的扣分制度就是把它變成是在升學時候的一個評分標準那當然一定也會有人有反對意見因為講是說這樣子會不會讓孩童造成是說他犯一次過沒有辦法去這個改過向上改過自新但是我們現在要討論的地方這也是如果他已經非常離譜的已經造成人身傷害"},{"start":18410.513,"end":18438.275,"text":"严重霸凌或是重复反复霸凌的情况我们是不是应该也要让霸凌者负起相对应的责任我完全同意委员的看法当这个防护造成人身的伤害他必须要付出法律的责任我觉得这是肯定的但付出法律的责任的同时相对应的因为好譬如说部长就如同现在这一个案件他是女国中生被学姐逼下跪呼巴掌"},{"start":18439.704,"end":18460.672,"text":"那這有人身傷害 會有傷害罪但可能他的傷害罪相對性而且還要走司法程序等等但如果說這一個事件譬如說過了之後沒有再往上或是說他霸凌沒有去譬如說校內寄過而已那他沒有法律上責任的時候那他還是一樣構成霸凌啊"},{"start":18461.786,"end":18469.951,"text":"那他有沒有對於應該對於這部分他升學的地方有要有所要有記錄或是要有所取捨"},{"start":18471.541,"end":18491.872,"text":"部長這就是我們今天要談論的意思我想是不是把他納入他的升學的一些扣分或者在許多的這些他可享用的資源上的一些暫停或者隔離我想這個我們確實是可以來研究啦是因為現在我們就看到韓國已經在做了"},{"start":18492.892,"end":18512.673,"text":"韓國甚至他們從2025年去年的時候就是因為有高官的兒子他在校園做霸凌事件但到最後他還可以考上一個頂尖大學造成全國嘩然而且因為我們現在即便是我們的制度已經有所謂的校內的評議委員會但是社會有些時候也是一個縮影"},{"start":18513.894,"end":18538.255,"text":"但霸凌者他會霸凌他可能自視家庭的背景不錯所以如果說真的成立評議委員會的時候也許他的家長也會有互相的勢力角力啊也造成說沒有辦法還原公道也因此我們這邊才想是說既然韓國以及其他國家有針對校園霸凌的部分能夠用更積極的態度去做處理那我們台灣能不能來做一個參考"},{"start":18539.116,"end":18560.046,"text":"所以感謝剛剛部長您有講到是說正面的回憶是可以研議那我們是不是可以針對這個部分請教育部參考韓國現在的一個做法甚至來了解是說他們用這樣的做法之後有沒有什麼後遺症以及有沒有減少霸凌的案件那什麼時候可以給我們本席一個書面的一個報告"},{"start":18561.485,"end":18576.023,"text":"我们是因为这里边收集国外的资料我们跟学者专家希望能够有一个更深入的一些讨论是两个月两个月好本席等你两个月但本席希望看到的是如果说确实有效"},{"start":18576.784,"end":18595.951,"text":"那我们应该可以往这个方向来推动因为这可能不只是只是立法或修法而是牵扯到更要不要家长也负年代责任是如果真正的一个青少年在学校犯下了一个非常严重的一个伤害的一个我想家长也不能这一个置身事外"},{"start":18596.411,"end":18621.992,"text":"自身之外或是我想這個我們比較系統性的是 謝謝部長您提到一個重點因為這也是本席要講是說因為很多人會講說邵氏法的部分我也有提案但是邵氏法已經變成是刑案的部分你的前科要做突銷與否這個是一塊但本席現在講到的是更普遍的霸凌現象你說孤立人潑人家水然後叫人家下跪甚至罰站唱國歌"},{"start":18623.53,"end":18641.173,"text":"我說這些都是我們過去在國中高中升學的時候有聽過或是有看到的霸凌狀況那既然如此這一些他又沒有到涉及刑案可是他真的是如果反覆不要拉扁甚至是說他在這個學校完了之後可以轉學到另外一個學校"},{"start":18641.613,"end":18662.284,"text":"他就重新醒白 重新再一次然後沒有任何記錄然後到最後變成是他學校所有的機制都是希望能夠讓學生知過能改而且往好的方向走我想這個不管任何一個機制任何一個辦法任何一個制度都是這樣的一個本質教育的本質當然是希望讓大家"},{"start":18663.884,"end":18671.828,"text":"但是如果說真的已經一而再再而三也應當讓霸凌者負起相對應的責任嗎因為說實在那個影片我們任何人都於心不忍再去看"},{"start":18679.031,"end":18697.201,"text":"那既然但是我們不能因為我們沒有看而當這個影片沒發生它確實有發生也因此我們才會說希望能夠更積極的態度那兩個月兩個月之後我看到教育部的報告我也會再進一步的針對這個部分來跟教育部做研究討論好嗎謝謝謝謝部長謝謝洪文凱委員的質詢請部長回座"},{"start":18701.897,"end":18709.405,"text":"下一位徐富贵委员徐富贵委员徐富贵委员不在有请林倩琪委员上台询答"},{"start":18719.572,"end":18738.522,"text":"謝謝我們的主席吳釗瑋我請我們部長再次有請鄭部長謝謝鄭部長 部長 輔會同仁 大家好本期長期在關心有關於偏鄉跟原鄉的一個教育環境最主要是因為這些地方資源不足 實質不穩"},{"start":18739.702,"end":18755.204,"text":"的結構性問題也是長期存在但是今天本席要針對一個個案來做一些關心也就是跟本席脈絡也很親的澎湖縣這是離島的一個問題我想跟偏鄉原鄉都有一些相同的處境"},{"start":18756.045,"end":18773.275,"text":"那麼大池國小有一個家長的集體陳情案件那全校大概14名學生已經很少了只有近半以上也不是近半應該多於一半以上的大概有九位家長的連署來向這個教育相關單位去反映"},{"start":18774.015,"end":18786.865,"text":"教學跟行政的問題那也提出了二十幾頁的這個具體事證那反映的內容包括課程長期的落後然後期末也倉促趕課然後最重要的是也常常存在的一個教學還沒有完成就進行評量那考試 那考試的狀況呢又自行翻書"},{"start":18792.97,"end":18820.652,"text":"那這樣子的狀況對教長來講很難以想像那這些問題都很長期的累積那在教學行政跟校務的層面呢那校長也沒有辦法督導那整個入班的一個官課跟教學輔導的機制沒有好好發揮功能感覺像學校好像失去了一些治理所以多次向縣府的教育處反映也沒有具體的改善那麼所以在這個部分本席請教"},{"start":18821.993,"end":18842.931,"text":"第一個部分是如果對於家常多次具體陳情也沒有辦法改善的案件教育部會不會多做一些了解然後去做處理然後第二個部分是像偏鄉這類小學校的這個案件那當地主管機關如果沒有能夠有效的處理的時候教育部是不是有主動能夠介入跟督導的一個機制還是完全仰賴地方的一個治理"},{"start":18843.772,"end":18867.817,"text":"那第二個部分是那目前對於教師品質跟這個校務運作的監督有沒有一個跨縣跨縣市一致的標準呢那會不會因為地方的差異讓偏鄉的學生或離島的學生的權益就被打折那這個部分是不是請部長先回應謝謝委員這個提醒我們這個大城大慈國小我想我們在下班之前我們一定會了解然後必要的時候我們就會"},{"start":18869.038,"end":18876.244,"text":"這個國教署會專人到學校裡面去介入實地的一個勘察最主要主動關心那離島整個資源狀況也跟原鄉很接近對 可能做一個關心好不好"},{"start":18887.054,"end":18908.433,"text":"那麼最重要就是說那個中央跟地方這有效的一個補位的救濟機制可能請那個部裡面要針對這些可能最沒有資源最需要保障的學生去做一個處理讓教育的一個公平性能夠被落實那接下來本席也在談一個長期以來大家都在講但是也是這個通面性的一個問題也就是學習歷程檔案的一個"},{"start":18911.896,"end":18927.703,"text":"實際成效啦那本席進入立法院之後其實這個議題常在談那幾年來都會再又整理一次我想他的初衷最重要是希望能夠憑良多元化但是食物的運作到底有沒有在符合他的初衷那一段時間都會有人拿出來討論"},{"start":18928.743,"end":18948.393,"text":"那麼你們的國教所的統計啦108的課綱第一屆到第三屆的高中畢業生那整個的學系成果沒有提交的比例從第一屆的18.31%達到了第三屆的30.17%那這個沒有提交比例的增加那是不是制度的一個運作有一些明顯的落差"},{"start":18949.553,"end":18976.405,"text":"那這邊我們來談一下其實很多人也提到學習歷程在實務上漸漸變成了一個資源的競爭者那有資源的學生就參加各種營隊製作精美的檔案然後外部還可以進行一些內容的包裝但是實際這個資源比較少的學生比如說像本席關注的偏鄉原鄉甚至剛才所說的離島的這個個案往往沒有辦法投入相同的時間跟成本那這個其實是"},{"start":18977.465,"end":18999.891,"text":"這樣子的本來是希望多元化的初衷就擴大了城鄉的一個差距跟社會階級的落差然後最後本期要提醒AI時代的來臨那深層式的AI也會在學習歷程檔案在真實性上跟可驗證性上面臨挑戰那包括部裡面或者是相關單位要來檢測的話呢也是有很大的一個問題所以"},{"start":19001.391,"end":19024.566,"text":"那目前大學的入學主要還是以學測成績作為門檻那學習歷程本來應該是輔助的資料那是不是在這個部分整個升學體制當中的定位你們要不要再做一個比較確切的一個回應那最重要就是說制度如果沒有辦法減輕壓力就增加了一些沒有必要的負擔又擴大了不平等那是不是應該要檢討啦"},{"start":19026.687,"end":19049.364,"text":"我們其實長期以來有很多檢討的聲音但是這個問題還是存在這個一個通案性的問題本席在這邊就今天的質詢也在提出一些這個問題是不是部長這邊可以很快的簡單的一個回饋我們學習歷程好像有它一定的價值但是怎麼樣與時俱進我們現在請大考中心跟高中端"},{"start":19050.245,"end":19070.137,"text":"在眼裡看有怎麼樣能夠以實際性包含剛才委員所提的雖然我們的老師大學老師很多人他是很認真在看學生的學習歷程檔案但是AI的一個深層式的AI會不會造成許多更新的一些挑戰我想我們會"},{"start":19071.887,"end":19088.36,"text":"願意正視這個問題來做討論來看怎麼樣最重要的就是說不要再增加大家太多的負擔然後做的事情如果沒有效度那原本的初衷又達不到然後資源的落差越來越大然後成像差異又更明顯的話"},{"start":19089.201,"end":19113.823,"text":"我想真的要好好的檢討一下初中然後跟實際的一個執行的狀況跟我們未來即將面臨的挑戰那這個部分 部裡面真的要很審慎的做一些檢討跟討論 好不好那如果有相關的這個進度是不是可以把一些階段性的報告送給本席的一個研究室 好嗎好 謝謝好 謝謝林倩琪委員的質詢請部長回座"},{"start":19114.761,"end":19119.473,"text":"下一位苏清泉委员苏清泉委员苏清泉委员不在"},{"start":19120.526,"end":19149.48,"text":"卢宪一委员卢宪一委员卢宪一委员不在今天登记质询的委员均已发言完毕询答结束另外有卢宪一万美玲徐富贵三位委员提出书面质询列入公报记录那因为等一下要做教师法第25条的排审为利于讨论准备协商的场地也让大家先用餐我们休息到下午三点"},{"start":19150.1,"end":19158.219,"text":"那跟审查法案无关的列席机关代表可以先行离席现在休息谢谢"},{"start":19191.845,"end":19191.866,"text":"喽"},{"start":19223.78,"end":19223.885,"text":"by bwd6"},{"start":19255.486,"end":19255.913,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MING PAO TORONTO"},{"start":19342.985,"end":19343.005,"text":"嗯"},{"start":19388.445,"end":19388.688,"text":"by bwd6"},{"start":23204.06,"end":23221.733,"text":"現在繼續開會審查教師法第25條及第53條相關修正草案請議事人員宣讀條文內容並進行討論與協商討論時如果有新增修正動議請一併宣讀討論時請參閱教育部提供的題會討論版本書面資料並列入公報記錄"},{"start":23234.075,"end":23250.105,"text":"請宣讀教師法委員吳麗華等提案第25條第二項及第三項默劇句末均爭定"},{"start":23250.546,"end":23269.577,"text":"及學術研究佳績其餘未修正委員馬文君等提案第25條第二項及第三項莫具巨莫均爭議及佳績其餘未修正委員葉言之等委員羅志強等委員徐曉新等提案第25條軍統委員馬文君等提案"},{"start":23276.295,"end":23291.21,"text":"委員郭玉琴等提案第25條同委員吳麗華等提案委員林倩琴等提案第25條第二項第二項莫具巨莫均徵定加持並恢復考核獎項"},{"start":23292.372,"end":23312.483,"text":"主席宣告現在進行教師法第25條及第53條條文修正草案主條審查審查時請參照條文對照表及提案關係文書第25條條文修正有委員武麗華等17人共14個提案以及委員陳秀寶等修正動議那"},{"start":23322.785,"end":23324.654,"text":"是不是請委員表示意見來 請秀寶委員"},{"start":23328.115,"end":23354.457,"text":"謝謝主席在第25條這個部分本席提的是修正動議那我想其實在今天早上很多委員的發言對這一條其實大家都是認同的就考量教師在受停聘的期間他是非自願停職工作那所以這個停聘期間結束後如果並沒有被解聘或是終局停聘這個處分代表教師他並沒有從事相關不法行為所以停聘期間的薪水本來就應該要補發"},{"start":23356.118,"end":23383.466,"text":"那先行的條文規定說只補發本薪的部分是有點不合理包括學術研究加給的部分所以本席提修正動議是來增加補發的薪資要加進學術研究加給的部分來保障教師的權益以上好 謝謝秀寶委員的意見我們是不是先請所有委員第一輪發言"},{"start":23385.497,"end":23394.473,"text":"齁 好不好 可以齁好 那接下來我們請林怡瑾委員接下來蔡春丑委員然後郭鈺晴委員"},{"start":23395.711,"end":23418.769,"text":"好 謝謝這個這案本席在上個會期初第一次質詢教育部的時候就有提過主要是還是校事會議爛訴的狀況太多那很多小案大辦的這個問題那就在這個期間那老師被停聘 被調查那有些樣態就是這個期間有發給辦述的本心有的是全部都沒有發"},{"start":23419.85,"end":23440.03,"text":"那等這個未受這個解聘或終局停聘的處分那回復聘任才補發這個停聘期間的薪資那主要是補發薪資的部分是不是要包含加給那目前只發本薪也就是所謂年工薪那加給跟獎金都沒有發可是老師的薪水結構"},{"start":23440.811,"end":23452.998,"text":"跟一般的工人員跟我們的都不一樣因為他其實本心只佔了其中的一部分那絕大部分的差不多四五成是所謂的研究"},{"start":23454.911,"end":23472.893,"text":"絕數研究佳績那所以你如果說只給他本分那上面就給他一半薪水而已嘛他就已經沒事了所以我說這實在是很不公平所以與這些薪資結構的不同所以大家忽略這一點所以應該是就是說"},{"start":23474.255,"end":23503.033,"text":"所以我的草案是寫要補發家籍當然家籍現在包括學術研究家籍啊這個地域家籍啊植物家籍等等那有些版本是只有強調學術研究家籍那我覺得這個當然可以再細討論那無論如何啦學術研究家籍是最重要因為它占比太大四五成所以是不是無論如何把這個學術研究家籍一定要加進去那至於其他的家籍"},{"start":23504.074,"end":23507.657,"text":"主席 大家好那台灣民眾黨呢提案的也是一樣我們接著再回聘回來的老師呢我們應該除了"},{"start":23531.857,"end":23553.152,"text":"之前是只有供奉嘛只有就是能供奉那我們這裡我們主張應該要把學術研究會還有地域家級都要納入就是要補償給回任的老師那這裡呢在這個地域家級在這裡我做一個說明"},{"start":23557.735,"end":23574.671,"text":"這個就是屬於偏遠的 偏遠地區的教師那現在目前呢 我們偏鄉的一個老師呢本來就是教師方 有很多人也不願意到偏鄉去那 好不容易有人願意到偏鄉去了然後 再來就是說"},{"start":23577.313,"end":23592.882,"text":"目前呢根據統計目前有這樣的一個問題大概有26個人那26個人期間呢有幾位是在偏鄉也沒有多少人那我們要想說這些偏鄉的他本身在一個"},{"start":23593.823,"end":23616.553,"text":"很多人不願意去的地方第二他說這樣的一個調查對他本身就是一種尊嚴的傷害那既然已經調查完了他是沒有這回事是受冤枉的那他也在偏鄉在調查的期間我相信他也一定住在那個地方等嘛因為要調查嘛所以我覺得第一"},{"start":23617.073,"end":23617.653,"text":"我是覺得這沒有多少錢啊"},{"start":23633.099,"end":23648.371,"text":"這個經費沒有多少錢了因為26個人然後再扣掉那個噴箱也沒有多少人那既然說自尊就受傷了何必去計價這幾千塊而且也沒有多少人所以這個是我的建議"},{"start":23649.551,"end":23674.811,"text":"好 非常謝謝蔡村崇委員所表示的意見那接下來請郭玉琴委員那郭玉琴委員發言完之後我們請教育部來做回應好 那我要強調一下這個學術研究家其實跟本心是一樣的啦如果說老師他因為資歷就是固定的資歷這個薪資其實他是為了要維持他原本生活的一個本來重要的一個核心啦"},{"start":23675.231,"end":23689.187,"text":"那如果說是因為他非自願或者是不可規則於自己的一個室友被停聘那最後獲得這個清白要復職這個也是我們一直不斷強調部長之前也強調就是要恢復這個名譽的部分"},{"start":23690.128,"end":23719.888,"text":"我想如果只發揮這個本心其實比較不符合這個受僱人他們的這個請求報酬的一個精神比較難以去維持他們原本的可能家庭的照顧的一些基本的一個費用那尤其是近幾年這個物價又大幅增長的一個狀況之下所以我想這個部分就是學術研究家級的部分那我把它寫進去的這個條文當中也是主要因為這個原因好 以上"},{"start":23721.309,"end":23731.034,"text":"好以上有四位提案委員都有表示意見現在我們就是請教育部是不是鄭部長回覆還是好請人事處處長請謝謝委員我們教育部這邊當然就是剛剛委員已經說明過就是"},{"start":23748.294,"end":23764.917,"text":"原先的規定是本薪那現在要把學術研究家級加進來那我們是站在一個就是給老師每個月經常性的一個固定薪資的一個概念就是全新的一個概念在看待這樣子的一個條文"},{"start":23765.518,"end":23780.355,"text":"那如果按照這樣子每個月固定薪的一個結構應該是本薪加學術研究加給那所以我們建議的文字是就是後面加學術研究加給那另外剛剛有問"},{"start":23780.455,"end":23804.323,"text":"委員也提到就是說家籍另外可能有職務家籍或者是地域家籍那這個都是因為身份上他可能有兼主管職務或者是他服務在偏鄉所給予的另外其他的家籍跟我們剛剛說明的就是每個月老師固定薪資的一個經常性給予"},{"start":23805.683,"end":23828.578,"text":"本質上還是有一些些的不太一樣所以我們教育部這邊建議的一個條文是本新加學術研究加級上報告謝謝處長的回應那教育部這邊在螢幕上有打出他們的題會版本那是不是請各位委員我們就依照教育部提供的版本來討論可以嗎那我先念一下"},{"start":23834.902,"end":23862.574,"text":"一第十八條第一項或第二十一條第二款第三款停聘之教師停聘期間不發給待遇一第二十一條第一款第二十二條第一項第二十三條第六項停聘之教師於停聘期間不發給待遇停聘是由消滅後未受解聘或終局停聘處分並回復聘任者補發期停聘期間全數本薪瓜湖年工薪及增加"},{"start":23863.314,"end":23883.827,"text":"文字及學術研究家及依第22條第二項停聘之教師於停聘期間發給半數本薪瓜湖年工薪增加文字及學術研究家及調查後未受解聘或終局停聘處分並回復聘任者補發期停聘期間好這邊"},{"start":23886.369,"end":23908.368,"text":"未發之本薪 未發之本薪 瓜湖年功薪及學術研究家級那看起來早上大家的質詢都蠻有共識就是剛才幾位委員的發言也大概往這個方向那如果大家同意同意嗎才遵守委員"},{"start":23916.913,"end":23933.142,"text":"我個人還是一樣對這個地域加緊我還是要提出看法為什麼其實早上我有講我們的校園其實就是期貨變貨已經為什麼會有這些問題應該就是校士會議惹的禍那那個第一"},{"start":23944.272,"end":23956.221,"text":"我覺得啦我覺得第一這個薪水他本來就已經發放了他本來他雖然沒有上班但是這些薪水還是放在學校"},{"start":23957.406,"end":23984.284,"text":"那換在學校的話 恢復了以後這個薪水還是換在學校的基金裡面 你就還給他而已嘛所以我覺得 而且呢 在偏鄉他本來就是 他也在那邊住駕 也已經住在那邊等候檢查嘛所以既然也沒有增加 那本來這個薪水也都在學校裡面那為何呢 我們對他的傷害也很大"},{"start":23984.744,"end":24013.944,"text":"他的一個尊嚴的受損難道就只有這幾千塊或者是說把這一個誰是研究會的這個錢給他之後就能夠彌補他的傷害嗎我覺得這個是需要大家再討論一下這是我個人我覺得應該要我認為我要堅持的地方好那蔡村首委員這邊有特別提到他希望把這個地域家籍放回去即便沒有上班"},{"start":24015.224,"end":24021.906,"text":"就是還是希望把地域加級加回去那這個部分是不是還是請教育部人事處長來請謝謝委員剛剛的那個說明那我這邊還是要強調一下就是這個條文其實是適用每一個教師那剛剛委員所提到的地域加級這個部分其實是"},{"start":24041.77,"end":24056.296,"text":"有在偏鄉或者是離島服務的教師才會發給並不是所有的老師他的薪資必然的有這樣子必然有的是本薪加學術研究債這是每一位老師都"},{"start":24057.156,"end":24082.682,"text":"都有的那第一家級跟剛剛也有提到的主管資助家級都是一樣的性質所以在這個條文裡面我們才會去講說你被冤枉後來復職的話應該是去回復他這兩項的一個薪資結構所以我們建議還是維持學術研究家級就可以了大概是這樣"},{"start":24085.248,"end":24105.324,"text":"那個意思就是說因為我們還有其他的教師待遇條例考核辦法等等有其他的法令那如果說在這個地方把它寫進這個文字它就會破壞那個就是其一性的部分因為這種特殊的部分有在其他的法條裡面規定"},{"start":24112.594,"end":24123.579,"text":"那其他委員有沒有什麼意見那李怡瑾委員先等蔡春嫂委員來請蔡春嫂委員"},{"start":24135.586,"end":24146.908,"text":"又表達了啦我是覺得應該是因為你有增加啊你這些薪水本來就放在學校的基金裡面啦你也沒有增加然後他"},{"start":24148.816,"end":24175.641,"text":"我是覺得我們要鼓勵鼓勵就是說有人願意到偏鄉去那我們這些老師本來就是不容易然後呢我個人是這樣子啦我是覺得希望啦我希望能夠把這個偏鄉我講的也沒有幾個人啊然後呢這也是特殊對象啊還是可以考慮看看有 理解因為真的是名譽"},{"start":24176.761,"end":24193.818,"text":"無法用金錢回復啦那如果可以的話當然是很好我們只是怕那個體力上文字不知道會不會跟其他的法令那這裡可以稍微修一下嘛他只是針對一些偏鄉的特殊的一些人而且也不多而且也不多"},{"start":24194.879,"end":24198.661,"text":"其實我某程度是非常支持就覺得說這個老師在這個調查的期間他是停聘的狀態嘛那既然這個還給他清白的時候其實他原本的薪水就應該給他可是現在卡在說"},{"start":24220.794,"end":24230.86,"text":"它停止的時候 其實一定有人代理的代理它的進步嘛所以它這個所謂的 這個地域家族就代理那個進步的 應該唸起來"},{"start":24233.094,"end":24246.683,"text":"所以我意思是說,如果這樣算是你就大不敷出了嘛,所以有很多行政系統來看,應該就是說,就是那個學術研究家族這是最大條的,這就是它的本分的一部分,以前說一般人的心碎就是,它的心碎就是本分跟學術研究家族,這條就叫心碎啦,"},{"start":24256.289,"end":24263.633,"text":"所以這套薪水都給他 都給他 剩下的就叫做頂替的概念頂替 你不吃 因為你紅天節 你不吃陶爐所以你不做工作 應該這樣說所以你應該不用去頂替 我是這樣想的所以我們的原意其實就是 原本的薪水 該領的薪水要給人家"},{"start":24282.121,"end":24307.151,"text":"所以我覺得如果可以的話大家有共識只差在這一咪咪啦這個好不容易我們也都凹到下午然後大家都那麼辛苦三次一次會而且這個學術研究加起這個是大家如果有共識這是最好的就真的幫了這些被調查的老師們所以再請蔡委員拜託啦"},{"start":24308.511,"end":24323.807,"text":"不過我在這邊也是要補充因為從校事會議被討論各個委員輪番上陣質詢然後不斷的要求給予全心那也很感謝部長在質詢台上總是說"},{"start":24324.688,"end":24344.039,"text":"他個人相當支持所以呢就啟動了這個修法也看到這麼多的委員都把版本提出來那如果我們可以順利通過接下來我們就要請司法委員會排教師待遇條例的修法因為這個兩個都要連動修所以如果這邊快那邊也"},{"start":24346.761,"end":24367.668,"text":"可以順利進行應該我們這個會期我們就可以完成處理這個三讀所以可以讓老師早一點可以如果有遇到這樣的狀況讓他們可以安心好那還有沒有其他意見好那謝謝各位委員順利達成共識我們是不是就照這個還沒有好來來"},{"start":24374.826,"end":24398.325,"text":"那個我當然謝謝那個前輩啦那我個人當然我也不要說我一直在阻擋這個但是我還是要強烈表達我個人的意願就是比較希望就是那個第一家級啦那如果說大家都要做一個協商最後的一個決定我當然尊重但是我提的不是最苛刻不是最那個還有人就是要全部都要都必須要補償"},{"start":24401.107,"end":24419.805,"text":"那剛剛我們前輩講的就是說他是偏鄉但是我想這個是短期的一個代理有時候也就是在地人來兼的那這個偏鄉的老師也許是外地進來的所以我是覺得如果以情理來講我這樣提出也沒有什麼"},{"start":24420.265,"end":24427.787,"text":"什麼苛刻啦我們純粹是為老師嘛沒有苛刻尊嚴都被受傷了這麼嚴重了補了那個一點點也補償不了啦那當然啦我們還是尊重教育部來做一個協商那是我個人的意見是比較希望這樣子能夠對第一家級能夠考慮一下"},{"start":24442.492,"end":24462.487,"text":"那個 遵守委員你不用擔心你絕對沒有苛刻因為其實如果可以的話大家都覺得應該要全部回覆只是因為在法令上可能有一些沒有辦法這樣處理謝謝你的體諒也謝謝大家達成共識那我們第25條就修正通過好嗎好 謝謝那下一個53條比較單純因為好像只有"},{"start":24472.114,"end":24500.624,"text":"只有民眾黨黨團有那個齁那是不是請大家看一下第53條那我們看一下易經一目好 易經一目第53條本法施行日期由行政院定之那增加的這個修正文字是本法修正條文字公佈日施行好 請各委員發表意見"},{"start":24506.087,"end":24526.842,"text":"提案委員說明我們這個通過之後就可以試用這樣子好 那人事處教育部同意嗎好 那我們第53條照台灣民眾黨黨團提案通過好 三思一次會"},{"start":24539.605,"end":24553.535,"text":"今天的審查結果免於重複宣讀在不影響條文議前提下文字 條字及標點符號為統一體力授權議事人員整理列入記錄"},{"start":24555.84,"end":24580.249,"text":"關於本次會議作如下決議報告及詢答完畢委員所提書面資料或相關資料均列入記錄刊登公報對於委員諮詢時要求提供的相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關盡速以書面答覆教師法第25條及第53條相關修正草案已全部審查完畢並按擬具審查報告提請院會公決"},{"start":24584.891,"end":24587.033,"text":"請問是否需交黨團協商不用交友黨 呃不報告委員會今日議程 有剛剛說不需 不用"},{"start":24599.393,"end":24621.439,"text":"我要採釋喔好 不需交由黨團協商主席一名議員會討論時由五兆級委員立華補充說明報告委員會今日議程處理完畢現在散會大家辛苦了有效力 有效力是不是因為初委員會我們是不是合照來 合照"},{"start":24625.213,"end":24632.363,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":24638.951,"end":24645.094,"text":"來大家先看這台先等一下先等一下大家先看這台好大家看這台好大家看這台"},{"start":24670.498,"end":24675.002,"text":"好 大家看我這一台還有沒有補啊 這一台好 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}