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邀請國家發展委員會主任委員及經濟部部長就AEI浪潮下臺灣傳統製造產業競爭力強化及輔助政策規劃與執行情形進行報告並備諮詢宣傳並好"},{"start":1848.188,"end":1872.659,"text":"今天的專題報告排定是能源轉型政策下我國產業發展佈局及中東衝突與全球能源供應鏈重組對能源安全之影響與因應策略第二項專題報告針對AI浪潮下台灣傳統製造產業競爭力的強化及輔助政策的規劃以及執行情形今天排這兩案的這個專題報告"},{"start":1874.58,"end":1880.711,"text":"先請今天列席的行政部門做報告首先請經濟部何進昌何市長做報告"},{"start":1889.586,"end":1906.768,"text":"主席各位委員先進 陳鵬國委員會邀請就能源轉型政策下我國產業佈局及中東衝突與全球能源供應鏈重組對能源安全影響與因應策略進行報告敬請各位委員先進不吝指教"},{"start":1907.529,"end":1925.799,"text":"我國已經將能源轉型列為長期發展的一個目標積極推動多元綠能的發展並逐步降低對燃煤發電的依賴截至2025年燃煤發電的占比已經降至35.4%那在裝置容量方面再生能源已經從"},{"start":1928.101,"end":1953.538,"text":"2016年大幅增長至2025年的22.9G瓦顯示我國能源轉型已經逐漸展現成果目前多元綠能以離岸風電、太陽光電為主要發展的一個重點並同步積極發展地熱、小水利、海洋能等多元的再生能源持續優化整體的能源結構現行我國再生能源的總裝置已經達23.04G瓦"},{"start":1957.32,"end":1979.371,"text":"未來我們也會持續擴大綠電的一個供應那配合能源轉型及產業淨零的需求經濟部積極推動產業深度節能聚焦系列容量在800k瓦以上用電大戶辦理節能需求的調查及到場的一個診斷並結合能源技術服務業的能量來提升能源使用的一個效率"},{"start":1980.211,"end":2008.467,"text":"那能源的供應攸關國家的一個安全為確保我國能源供應的穩定政府長期透過進口來源多元化及安全存量等策略達到強化我國能源供應鏈韌性的目標那我國目前油氣的進口來源多元分散平時要建立能源安全存量的儲備的機制石油至少90天燃煤至少30天天然氣至少11天國內目前能源儲備是充足的"},{"start":2009.607,"end":2017.554,"text":"但是在2月28號中東情勢持續的一個升級那3月30號國際布蘭特原油的一個現貨價格來到123.42美元較戰爭前上升71%"},{"start":2025.28,"end":2046.42,"text":"整體油市不確定性高國際調研機構評估原油價格可能飆升會超過150美元一桶那經濟部因應中東局勢的一個急速升溫以在低時間啟動能源應變小組每次召開會議並急請石油公司提高油氣的存量"},{"start":2047.486,"end":2063.859,"text":"那以下就經濟部對於穩定能源的供應的機制與作為進行說明第一個在石油供應穩定的部分目前我國石油存量天數是150天高於法定的規範90天以上"},{"start":2065.06,"end":2088.029,"text":"為因應中東戰事及區域航運風險對來自中東地區油源所帶來的影響經濟部已經與國內的兩家石油公司建立緊密的聯絡網確實掌握石油的供需短期受影響的船隻已經有替代的方案並責請中油公司運理替代的調度"},{"start":2089.309,"end":2108.018,"text":"方案持續強化我國能源的韌性第二就天然氣供應穩定的部分我國經過和姆治海峽的氣源比例為34%經濟部已經折成中油公司全面盤點受影響船班並主動尋找替代的氣源目前已經完成五月底前天然氣供應與船級調度的準備"},{"start":2110.219,"end":2138.256,"text":"6月传奇的调度已经完成过半确保天然气供应无虞就电力稳定的部分台电公司也将依照既定发电排程来操作同时经济部也已经折承台电研理应用的方案全力供应能源稳定发电让国人及产业安心第四在价格稳定措施方面经济部已经折承台湾中油就国内汽柴油价格持续推行亚林最"},{"start":2138.996,"end":2162.548,"text":"最低價調整上限並視國際原油價格的一個變動有專案平穩機制吸收至少60%的一個售價漲幅同時政府也已經擴大對汽柴油貨物稅減增幅度至法定上限50%經濟部會在確保能源安全促進產業發展及兼顧環境永續的前提之下持續穩健推動再生能源的發展"},{"start":2163.448,"end":2180.019,"text":"經濟部也會每天持續追蹤油氣市場動態與價格的一個變動掌握國內能源存量及後續抵港傳奇確保能源供應不中斷我們也會持續掌握國際動態的一個資訊滾動調整應變機制然後努力減緩國際油氣價格大幅上漲的一個衝擊配合穩定"},{"start":2190.365,"end":2210.662,"text":"物價的政策來照顧民生以上報告進行指教那第二個報告請各位委員就AI讓朝下台灣傳統製造產業的競爭力強化及輔助政策規劃與執行的一個情形進行指教"},{"start":2211.423,"end":2235.902,"text":"那目前傳統產業的這個加數有8.53萬家就業人數208.15萬人以金屬製品 機械設備 塑膠製品 食品等加數最多傳統產業大部分都是中小企業調整的速度跟轉型能力較為不足按照支撐會的一個調查顯示14年我國重點中小企業製造中小型製造業的數位化比例達到99.9"},{"start":2240.685,"end":2253.894,"text":"數位優化及數位轉型程度達55.1%已經有初步的轉型的成效未來可加強運用最新的AI技術提升營運的效率至於在傳統產業競爭力強化協助策略與做法"},{"start":2258.116,"end":2265.582,"text":"我們以下有幾項措施第一個是百工百業要來導入AI那目前經濟部已經成立推動產業競爭力輔導團來協助業者導入AI運用第二 辦理AI的人才培訓以多元方式來培訓強化產業人才的AI的應用並依照"},{"start":2276.79,"end":2300.527,"text":"企業實務的需求規劃辦理AI應用與案例另外我們也可以來補助企業最高新台幣12萬元來提供他們AI相關訓練的一個費用另外我們經濟部產業發展署也推動辦理IPaaS的AI應用規劃師的能力鑑定協助企業依不同職能需求來申請合適的人才"},{"start":2302.268,"end":2322.584,"text":"最後就是協助AI進階的應用我們經濟部也協助產業按照特性及需求的一個差異提供客製化輔導或輔助那第二項是目前我們在產創條例的第10條之一也已經修正增列納入AI及節能減碳的一個項目讓這個"},{"start":2326.127,"end":2345.722,"text":"企業他採購這方面的一個設備的話支出的一個上限可以由10億元提高至20億元那適應期間是118年底來鼓勵產業導入AI及雲端的運算等數位的技術第三我們這個有一些研發補助的一個計畫來"},{"start":2347.203,"end":2350.764,"text":"提供傳統產業來做技術升級轉型包括我們的CITD還有這個產業升級產創的一個平台還有SBIR相關的計畫都會來協助產業進行技術研發另外針對美國關稅政策影響製造業"},{"start":2366.39,"end":2390.947,"text":"的一個部分我們也會在特別預算裡面編列了250億元來針對製造業提供升級轉型的一個補助那最後就是協助這個節能減碳的部分我們也有相關的預算來協助業者系統性的導入節能減碳技術與管理的一個做法並運用AI技術強化節能的一個成效"},{"start":2391.747,"end":2397.189,"text":"那至於這個傳統產業執行的一個成果輔導的一個成果統計到114年為止在AI導入的部分我們競爭力輔導團已經輔導1723家業者來強化AI技術的一個運用培育將近3萬1千位的這個產業應用人才"},{"start":2414.295,"end":2421.997,"text":"那IPaaS的一個AI應用規劃師的能力檢定到去年12月底子已經有累計有6500位這個人員來獲得這個方面的證"},{"start":2433.061,"end":2451.17,"text":"這個認證那在設備投資抵檢的一個部分在114年申請智慧機械投資抵檢的加數有1290家總投入金額達到1068億元那在協助受美國關稅政策影響業者的部分研發轉型的補助目前已經通過689件有762家的業者"},{"start":2454.372,"end":2460.756,"text":"補助金額是33.4億元那在節電減碳的部分114年已經完成251場的一個設備診斷742場的ASCO的一個煤核預估帶動節電20.3億度那114年也協助410家製造業完成減量的一個計畫申請預估減碳120萬噸累計這個減輕企業的負擔"},{"start":2479.507,"end":2485.193,"text":"約263億元那經濟部非常重視傳統產業的一個發展每年投入預算推動產業升級轉型未來將積極協助應用AI技術提升經營品質效能並發展刀子化的產品或服務那經濟部也已經編列461億元的特別預算推動"},{"start":2498.585,"end":2520.362,"text":"資金研發及行銷等支持的一個措施協助美國關稅受美國關稅影響的一個傳統產業來因應做調整那經濟部也跟傳統產業的一些相關工協會保持密切聯繫並不定期召開產業座談會收集業者的心聲並納入相關政策的規劃推動使得這個參考那以上報告敬請各位委員指正視角謝謝"},{"start":2526.009,"end":2550.518,"text":"謝謝何市長的報告在國安會業主委報告之前先進行會議事錄的確定請問在場委員上次會議事錄有錯誤沒有那我們就確定一次錄好接下來請國安會業主委報告主席各位委員還有各位委員會先進大家好"},{"start":2551.555,"end":2575.522,"text":"今天從貴委員會邀請就AI浪潮下台灣傳統製造產業競爭力強化及輔助政策規劃與執行情形進行報告本會請就AI科技對傳統製造業帶來的契機政府協助傳統製造業運用AI之相關措施向各位提出說明"},{"start":2576.042,"end":2590.345,"text":"那敬請不吝指教那國內面臨少子化高齡化勞動力減少的情境如何善用人工智慧將有助因應勞動力減少之挑戰提高生產效率及產品品質"},{"start":2591.286,"end":2607.448,"text":"那為因應全球數位轉型浪潮加速創新驅動的經濟發展行政院已經在今年的1月核定AI新十大建設推動方案由本會、經濟部以及國科會、速發部等相關部會共同推動"},{"start":2608.369,"end":2617.815,"text":"在協助傳統製造業方面將透過百工百業智慧應用的推動策略由經濟部輔導製造業者導入AI並由速發部結合支付業開發AI工具協助企業數位轉型具體說明如下在提升傳統製造業AI應用普及方面"},{"start":2632.084,"end":2638.368,"text":"經濟部還有速發部等部會將協助產業運用AI升級轉型帶動國內製造業的AI普及率由去年的22.7%將提高到117年的50%那在"},{"start":2648.433,"end":2676.316,"text":"提供系統化AI輔導服務方面相關部會以提供系統化的AI輔導措施包括經濟部已成立產業競爭力輔導團提供全方位輔導服務那速發部也已發布AI產業人才認定指引建立製造業等領域之AI人才衡量標準等那在強化AI導入誘因方面"},{"start":2677.874,"end":2690.588,"text":"為降低企業導入AI的負擔政府也提供多元政策支持工具鼓勵企業加速導入AI例如提供購資AI產品或服務之企業租稅優惠推動數位點數補助機制等"},{"start":2697.515,"end":2714.586,"text":"那最後面對全球AI浪潮的衝擊行政團隊將持續扮演傳統製造業最堅實的後盾那未來將透過各項相關協助措施務求加速傳統製造業運用AI帶動創新轉型讓台灣傳統製造業在AI時代具備更強韌的國際競爭力那以上報告敬請不吝指教並祝各位委員先進"},{"start":2727.535,"end":2745.513,"text":"平安如意 謝謝大家謝謝國會議員主委報告中郵張總 台電王總有沒有補充報告沒有喔 好來 我們再"},{"start":2747.309,"end":2766.756,"text":"在進行之前先做一下宣告每位委員發言時間本會委員五分鐘必要時延長一分鐘非本會委員四分鐘上午十點十點截止發言登記首先哇今天開路先風換人了首先請登記第一位請中間一名委員發言"},{"start":2780.252,"end":2787.372,"text":"主席在黨委員先進列席的政府金融省官員現在設備好像還沒連結是不是請主席允許他們趕快調整"},{"start":2804.497,"end":2833.237,"text":"好 那麼有請經濟部何次長國發會葉主委那請法務部的李專委和調查局的五副局長準備好 主委副局 次長我今天呢是要請檢調依法調查台塑石化供應鏈揪出假減產真風台市場恐慌的元兇請教葉主委今天不是請你以主委的身份發言你最近有去市場買菜或去消費拿不到購物袋嗎"},{"start":2835.504,"end":2842.909,"text":"我大部分都在那一個大賣場但是你知道塑膠在目前好像市面上有恐慌是是好來謝謝你請回來次長"},{"start":2845.578,"end":2872.67,"text":"我要告訴你經濟部主管這個名聲其實問題不是塑膠袋是在塑膠力為什麼因為現在行政院要查囤積台價塑膠袋上游大中小很好查倉庫有沒有一查就知道對不對而且就算是缺貨購物袋環境部環保袋一堆也有替代的選項但是塑膠力他要做成一次性的包裁醫療器材食品包裝尤其是醫療衛生安全還有便利性不可替代如果缺貨了事情就大條是不是這樣是"},{"start":2873.43,"end":2876.977,"text":"好 那所以塑膠袋要抓有沒有囤積居奇的塑膠粒要不要抓"},{"start":2878.227,"end":2907.467,"text":"我們也會去了解一下來我告訴你來請那個李專門委員和副局長來我請教一下我們法務的專家來刑法251條囤積罪他寫意圖抬高交易價格囤積下六品之一無正當理由不應是銷售者會罰三年以下好那請問一下如果我手上我是大盤我手上有塑膠袋我放在倉庫裡不賣出去不供貨你們要不要查請問副局長"},{"start":2910.048,"end":2936.124,"text":"謝謝委員指教簡單回答好查倉庫是不是可以查得到因為烘台跟囤積依一般社會大眾理解烘台價格是指經營者在供需失衡災難或特定節慶時趁機以不正當手段那囤積要不要打當然這個委員指教我們一定是要配合調查那塑膠粒如果缺貨查倉庫倉庫沒有塑膠粒沒有成品沒有囤積就沒有犯法你同意嗎"},{"start":2938.322,"end":2967.468,"text":"好那往下看來先跟大家介紹一下塑膠力的最大來源台塑上游是台塑石化這個公司列解石油腦提供乙烯丙烯乙烯丙烯交給中游台塑公司的鉅烯事業部做成塑膠力然後呢再供應下游各種民生產業購買塑膠力來做成包材包括衣材食品包材還有倉儲物流連那些封裝袋都是國內的塑膠力來源台塑佔了將近75%如果台塑"},{"start":2968.368,"end":2997.376,"text":"不供應減產是不是就會造成缺貨好往下看來台塑第一部我手上掌握一份資料寫台塑的據西事業部營務處在3月10號發文給所有他的客戶說我上游的台塑石化已經對我公司發出以秉息減產奇怪為什麼要減產而且他們在3月2號3月2號祝華喔3月2號的時候呢他就說我對我的客戶因為上游沒有給我以秉息減產嘛所以我對你們的供應量一律砍半"},{"start":2998.403,"end":3023.926,"text":"各位啊 228 美伊戰事才爆發3月2號大家搞 搞不好一個星期川普就搞定了為什麼台塑石化要減乙丙烯供應減半減產都不減半 而且他的下游台塑石化他減產 然後他的下游就對他的客戶塑膠粒減量供應那這樣會不會業者恐慌提早購買 需求增加 價格是不是上漲了"},{"start":3025.06,"end":3050.729,"text":"石油輸出國料組織每次只要石油價格不好他們就聯手減產價格就應聲而起副局長你同意這樣的市場邏輯嗎?是好我們想要看二部曲3月10號是怎樣?3月2號已經通知你減半供應了3月12號的說法是說因為中東的戰事單位大大大大我現在不只減產我還調漲一公斤10塊半而且再砍半只供應25%"},{"start":3052.679,"end":3071.606,"text":"市場發生的情況恐慌啊之前是下個月要進的貨提早叫現在是有貨就拿不管多少價格價格這個標的可能是原來的三倍以上了台塑公司據悉事業部有沒有符合刑法251條意圖抬高交易價格囤積下的物品有沒有這樣的翻譯或這樣的一個要件構成"},{"start":3073.257,"end":3100.056,"text":"是 包委員如果台塑有減產造成中下流原料短缺引發塑膠袋的產能不是塑膠袋 塑膠粒跟你講不是塑膠袋是塑膠粒導致市面上有這個廠商烘台囤積那我們還是會繼續持續的了解但是台塑石化的三部曲昨天 昨回說話啦這些百貨通路商要供應塑膠袋也請中油台塑增產乙烯來 中油張總經理請上台"},{"start":3101.216,"end":3117.23,"text":"來 你會不會配合政府增產儀器你直接講會的 很好 台塑會不會 會他本來先把他的食用腦的庫存先握住然後我先減產 你政府叫我增產的時候 我產量全開啊"},{"start":3118.542,"end":3141.295,"text":"價格是什麼 價格是現在最高的價格跟主席申請一點點時間 我把這個講完好 所以台塑石化 名利雙收我請教一下 來往下看台塑石化囤積的是原料 不是成品台塑石化囤積原料 然後減產乙烯丙烯造成塑膠力供應不足 價格上漲然後台塑石化關閉兩條產線"},{"start":3143.456,"end":3172.085,"text":"部長 次長 你知道嗎台塑是佔我們國內塑膠力最主要的供應商中油還是其次 台灣中油還是其次它本來三條產線去年因為中國經濟內捲他們的塑膠力過剩 到貨所以國內的塑膠力很多跟對岸買台塑呢 它就怎樣 台塑實話就關掉一條產線因為人家想要進口的 不然要買我的合理吧但是二月底減產再關掉第二條生產線 你覺得合理嗎"},{"start":3173.383,"end":3195.769,"text":"跟委員報告 昨天那個中郵也召集了我不是問中郵 我問你台塑他這樣關閉產線你知道嗎我了解他們那個台塑石化他們有關閉一條產線你知道嗎 去年先關一條 今年2月3月又關一條來 法務部調查局兩個都請來法務部調查局要不要馬上立案調查台塑石化有沒有違反刑法251條的囤積罪"},{"start":3197.594,"end":3226.377,"text":"如果有違法我們當然會持續調查了解好來我請三個訴求第一請你們馬上去調閱台塑實話今年三月前後幾個月份跟過去歷年的同比他的以息秉息的產量的消長資料第二請你們去查扣他現在油槽裡面石油腦他過去進貨跟訂貨的存礦如果他都正常那他現在刻意減產囤積原料就有控涉犯刑法251條囤積罪法務部調查局要不要辦"},{"start":3227.972,"end":3242.539,"text":"只要有違法 報告委員我們一定會檢查的法務部專委要跑回去報告要不要辦是 有違法的情形我們一定會辦理好 謝謝主席好 謝謝鐘哲平委員請回座好 消費資源請邱映穎委員"},{"start":3255.097,"end":3260.582,"text":"好謝謝主席我還是請一下經濟部市長市長我想接續剛剛中委員的提問我要再次請教一下"},{"start":3274.165,"end":3297.601,"text":"經濟部在上個禮拜對外的說明是說國內的油品跟石化原料的供應是穩定的沒有短缺的問題是不是這樣那你們有沒有去比如說像剛剛中委員提出這麼明確的事證台塑先減產然後呢再因應卓院長的要求再增加產線增加產量"},{"start":3298.822,"end":3325.561,"text":"這個好像所有的這些塑膠粒石化原料要減產要增產全部掌握在台塑的手裡那經濟部你們現在掌握到的環節問題的環節到底在哪裡市面上買不到塑膠袋然後你們說原料供應無虞那現在被抓到了這個國內的最大廠商台塑去把這個原料鎖住直接減產"},{"start":3328.002,"end":3349.414,"text":"經濟部有什麼作為嗎跟委員報告其實台塑減產是因為上游的這個最主要是乙烯乙烯的部分供應是有一些比較短缺的部分那目前來講其實這個台塑它最主要的這個乙烯供應來源是台塑化"},{"start":3350.074,"end":3371.232,"text":"那剛剛鍾委員提到就台塑化他減產的醫療產線所以他的這個產能從14萬噸一個月變成這個9萬噸所以差5萬噸那差5萬噸其實我們也跟台塑化做了一些了解這5萬噸裡面其實原先是有大概有這個三分之二以上大概都是"},{"start":3372.193,"end":3392.305,"text":"外銷用就是給下游外銷用的那國內生產的部分大概1.1萬噸的部分是直接供給台塑做內銷生產的這些塑膠袋塑膠的部分我想要問的就是說到底你們有沒有掌握這些環節出問題的點是在哪裡是刻意囤貨"},{"start":3393.846,"end":3410.482,"text":"刻意不生產然後造成恐慌在趁機拉抬價格是不是這樣這是第一個第二個公平會呢我們上週問的時候公平會說要配合你們的這個調查所以公平會要啟動調查要三個月"},{"start":3412.023,"end":3432.052,"text":"三個月後會變成什麼樣子你不用三個月啦 三個禮拜這個政府可能就倒台了市長 現在人民去買菜去用什麼東西擺不到塑膠袋已經開始在罵了好 那我現在要再請教你們現在說協調小北百貨跟鎮宇五金去出貨"},{"start":3433.813,"end":3448.786,"text":"對不對為什麼是這兩家這兩家又不是專門在賣塑膠袋的為什麼是這兩家那除了這兩家以外還有什麼通路商是可以處理的你現在公布了這兩家會不會造成今天大家全部去這兩家搶塑膠袋接下來整個塑膠袋之亂經濟部要如何因應我想聽到的是這個事情"},{"start":3458.019,"end":3472.631,"text":"跟委員報告其實這個因為通路的業者來講我們現在也已經在協調一些生產製造商全力供應所有的通路目前我們已經有盤點20家的生產製造商"},{"start":3475.653,"end":3502.589,"text":"那這些生產製造商如果有缺料的部分我們產業發展署我們就會緊急來調料給他們來做生產那這20家的生產商他們也同意就是就目前市場上缺貨的部分會來做一些產能的一個調配所以我想這個供應的部分我們會確保上游端的部分在生產的部分是沒有問題什麼時候可以讓市面上恢復正常"},{"start":3503.389,"end":3518.88,"text":"我想我們會你的這個調節聽起來好像是有效率但是我想問的是什麼時候可以讓市面恢復正常是我們當然我們是希望每天我們去調查一下那個量的部分是不是重組我們現在每天對這個商圈夜市市場"},{"start":3519.58,"end":3534.456,"text":"的部分我們都跟知事會那邊也有聯繫哪邊如果有你沒有回答到我的問題我現在問你是說什麼時候可以讓這個塑膠袋之亂結束可以恢復正常供應當然我們是希望就是說現在就能夠穩定供應"},{"start":3536.718,"end":3559.549,"text":"現在就可以穩定供應是今天開始可以穩定供應還是明天開始可以穩定供應當然現在就是給我一個確切的數字好不好三天五天我都可以聽你的講法但是可不可以給大家一個確切的數字當然我們現在就是希望把所有的這個生產製造能夠完全的"},{"start":3560.489,"end":3565.693,"text":"這個充足供應那這個分配的部分我想我們會盡大力去我們來努力我們來努力盡量來讓整個市場的秩序能夠我期待經濟部能夠拿出魄力出來好"},{"start":3576.38,"end":3603.592,"text":"那我想接下來要問一下今天這個主席排定的這個議程我想對於整個AI產業的這個浪潮之下對於我們的傳產競爭力我剛剛稍微上台之前稍微看了一下今天的股市又大漲台積電又領軍又大漲看起來AI其實它的速度是無人能敵但是現在就會出現到一個很"},{"start":3604.977,"end":3628.129,"text":"很奇特的狀態就是AI一直飆傳產一直掉那這個包括國發會包括經濟部你們現在手上有的這個已經有傳產已經有導入AI的廠商大概只佔22.7%多達七成以上的中小企業其實是沒有導入AI的但是國發會說要在110"},{"start":3635.983,"end":3650.177,"text":"117年的時候要讓所有的AI普及率是達到五成等於是三年內要翻倍請問你們要怎麼做我現在看到的這個預算157億看起來很多不過你實際把它分發下去"},{"start":3651.462,"end":3677.808,"text":"你包括製造業30個人以下的製造業他大概只能分到10萬塊這個錢是很少的到底你們要怎麼做才能翻倍主席再給我一分鐘 何不請市長您回答跟委員報告因為中小企業的家屬非常多所以你的157億看起來很多但是你實際分配下去能夠讓他們能夠直接轉型到AI運用引用到AI的時候其實這個錢是很少的那你要怎麼做"},{"start":3678.208,"end":3700.228,"text":"是我們一定要是用一個集體的一個方式來做輔導啦也就是說大帶小的一個方式來做那目前來講所以你的大帶小是錢是給大然後小是附加還是說你要去輔導小然後才能把它整個帶上來就我現在提出的這些東西嘛30個以下的公司大概只能分到10萬塊嘛"},{"start":3701.249,"end":3729.076,"text":"是那你的大公司單一廠商最高可以補助到三千嘛你如何大帶小這個可不可以給本席一個比較完整的書面說明好不好是好謝謝邱議員請回座好消息資訊請黃義祥委員主席好我們有請在一個經濟部核市長經濟部核市長"},{"start":3737.619,"end":3757.441,"text":"好市長好我想第一個因為今天的題目是這樣子但是第一個我先幫我們這些產業界電腦工會等等這些來請命也就是說我們的研發替代液的話大概我們要在2029年就要全面走入歷史"},{"start":3758.581,"end":3781.06,"text":"那過去來講的話其實我們在這個97年實施到現在碩博士的替代役的人數以及企業用人的滿意程度那加上這基本上我們還是有很多企業的需求大概是差不多5000配合的話行政大概只有2600其實這個在我們國防比例大概3%左右"},{"start":3781.781,"end":3801.905,"text":"那因為他就要走入歷史要落日了所以我們想要看的是說可不可以請這個經濟部去跟內政部行政院這些人溝通我們希望能夠延續這樣的替代制度而且他對國家安全的科技發展是有很重大的幫助市長的看法"},{"start":3803.102,"end":3825.263,"text":"當然這個整個會涉及到整個國家的一個兵役制度啦那也許我們來了解一下為什麼這樣的一個制度會有一個亂這個就是產業的需求那我覺得這個制度也是很好的所以請次長後續去跟部長然後再去跟國防部或者是內政部溝通一下"},{"start":3826.428,"end":3841.544,"text":"再來我們現在的話呢在這個目前的這個官報這邊122沒有錯但是重點是不要忘記我們還有個301那他現在的調查的時程的話目前3月17到4月15是在意見爭取然後的話5月5號在辦公廳會那我想要請教經濟部的就是說"},{"start":3848.672,"end":3867.206,"text":"我們現在做的大概都是比較防禦式的比較是納共型的這種外交我覺得我們在反制的做法上面比如說你是不是可以用先進製程的出口的管制去做為你談判的門票然後我們對大概一堆的核能或者是能源的採購是不是做為調整結構性的一個順差"},{"start":3869.648,"end":3889.356,"text":"甚至你們也應該要跟日韓歐盟等16國發起被調查者的聯盟因為我們也不是第一次遇到所以我想要知道的是說經濟部在這邊你除了幫廠商寫這些英文意見書到底有沒有一些實質的一些的策略可以提供給經貿辦還是說這個是歸經貿辦負責"},{"start":3893.154,"end":3898.676,"text":"當然這個談判是在經貿辦在負責那資訊的部分經濟部也會就來提供相關資訊給經貿辦那目前據我了解就是說在跟美方所簽訂的ART的這個協定裡面在跟美方協議的過程裡面其實許多的這些剛委員提到這些問題其實在裡面也都有"},{"start":3915.541,"end":3925.854,"text":"跟美方也已經有達成一定的一個協議了啦所以我現在的問題是這樣子我不太相信美國人但美國人不可信是吧"},{"start":3928.342,"end":3951.932,"text":"那基本上來講如果他的美方毀約那他說ART不管因為ART只是所謂的行政法而已但是你301是他的法律案所以他的位階是比我們這ART要高所以他如果說我現在301簽完了反正那個這都美國說了算那這個時候你後續萬一他ART不用那你後面比如說WTO是不是要提起爭端的解決"},{"start":3953.012,"end":3971.886,"text":"或者是說我們的半導體出口是很強這個應該拿來作為談判的一個籌碼我希望這個在報告裡面的話你們再提供給經貿辦的也給本席一個參考因為我覺得這個對我們很重要你們現在有內憂剛剛前面兩個委員都是內憂我現在是提及外患"},{"start":3972.886,"end":3986.857,"text":"這個外販是馬上就到了是我跟委員報告一下就是說其實這個美方那邊他也有做一些對話說明希望跟美方達成協議的這些國家能夠按照跟美國達成協議的內容能夠來持續來推進那我們現在也在等待美方的"},{"start":3992.642,"end":4002.241,"text":"你都要交報告給我好不好因為我覺得這是很重要的事情大家要去不然就是忘記了啦再來的話就是你們今天的報告有沒有人看過"},{"start":4004.46,"end":4016.423,"text":"次長有沒有看過還是部長有沒有看過這是國發會啊到底有沒有看過我現在舉幾個例子你們在經濟部裡頭這邊所寫的這個報告3月25號輔導團應用加數是1584家今天就1723家國發會還停留在1584家所以如果照你的報告1.7天就增加了輔導139家"},{"start":4032.557,"end":4046.57,"text":"然後AI4產線3月2、4、5是50條建制中國發會的報告可能是85條以建制主席再給我一分鐘一下那你人才的培育也是因為數字你一開始3月2、4、5是12萬然後4月1號的報告又變成30989中間9萬人蒸發"},{"start":4054.417,"end":4070.704,"text":"很多欸跟委員報告其實我們這個輔導是持續在進行啦所以這個時間會有一個累積不是你的AI市產線累積也不會那麼誇張啊你3月25號是50條建制中國發後這邊寫85條已建制國會幫你加碼還幫你建完應該是85條啦目前是目前我們這個市產線是85條對啊然後你3月25號你的增加加速的話是139加7天"},{"start":4082.247,"end":4098.528,"text":"那你的輔導團才44團啊除下來的話可能一個輔導團一週完成3.159家我也沒那麼厲害我也走過啊因為那個都是過去一直持續在輔導所以可能有很多同步在輔導那國發會的報告也不能"},{"start":4099.309,"end":4117.072,"text":"也要去驗證一下我說你們叫AI內閣這種報告兩邊的報告也不check一下或者是也不consistent check就是說你不要用人看你用AI看也可以啊好不好那最後啦最後我覺得一個也是很扯的就是你們那個AI普及率啊"},{"start":4117.893,"end":4146.583,"text":"也是一樣喔這個我想後續我會再請你們來做一些報告那個普及率到底是什麼然後提升目標值也是一樣就跟國發會不同步啊加速也都要統計一下好不好好啊你們再看一下我那個書片因為可能是運用的來源不一樣啦因為我數據來源不一樣我後續再追好不好謝委員謝委員好謝謝洪義祥委員請回座蕭域子雲請真正前委員"},{"start":4160.483,"end":4165.461,"text":"謝謝主席我想請一下那個國發會主委跟經濟部次長"},{"start":4170.593,"end":4196.138,"text":"市長早謝謝主席今天特別安排一個能源轉型跟整個AI產業在傳統產業這邊的一個相關的備詢我想說針對整個能源政策的部分我特別關心核能重啟的問題因為其實核安會這邊也具體表示從3月27號已經收到了我們台電送出去的一個"},{"start":4198.419,"end":4211.643,"text":"那我想請教一下經濟部這邊有沒有針對我們整個核能政策的一個轉彎當中的時候我們的社會到底付出了多少的一個成本對於這樣的一個政策的一個轉彎有沒有"},{"start":4212.483,"end":4235.853,"text":"有沒有具體的數字跟委員報告因為這個會牽涉到就是說因為目前正在做自主安全檢查那自主安全檢查就要了解設備現在老化設備這是另外一個問題我想另外針對這個整個政策當中的一個轉彎的時候我們社會跟整個老百姓到底擔負了多少的一個成本那我特別來講一下因為事實上那時候我們還講到一個核電重點三個背景"},{"start":4237.714,"end":4254.195,"text":"包括了一個整個AI的產業的一個爆發那產業的需求那包括了一個比方說那個國際低碳的一個轉型還有一個比方說全球電能政治其實這三個狀態其實長期來看其實都沒有變因為這三個東西它不是突然間"},{"start":4255.336,"end":4280.396,"text":"出現的變化他事實上是本來就是我相信我們行政部門本來都預計在這裡頭可是我們這樣光是一個這樣一個能源政策的一個轉型的時候一個轉彎一個髮夾彎的時候我們到底花了多少成本請經濟部這邊之後給我一個很詳細的一個數字因為目前來說的時候針對這個我們這個核能政策的一個轉彎到底我們社會承擔了多少的成本不一而足有不同的說法我這邊簡單講一下就有人說從那個離岸風電"},{"start":4285.481,"end":4300.34,"text":"這個部分來看的時候呢比方說20年我們短購的價格就要多一兆這是一個說法那也有人說從我們這幾年在整個火力發電天然氣發電當中投入的一個資金可能要多個5000億左右"},{"start":4302.623,"end":4331.903,"text":"讓我們補助台電這幾年可能又有四千億等等那各式各樣那當然也有人提到說我們光是這樣的一個能源的一個轉型的時候搞不好就有數兆元的部分那我希望我們經濟部給一個很具體的一個評估報告出來因為他們這裡面可能有些是重疊的可是有些沒有算到的像我們這個社會成本環境的成本都沒有算進去那我希望經濟部給本席一個很清楚的一個這樣的一個分析報告大概多久可以給"},{"start":4332.363,"end":4332.483,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":4337.69,"end":4366.057,"text":"壓一個時間好不好這政策這麼重大政策轉彎應該本來就會有啊報告是不是給我們三個月的時間可以嗎好可以因為我希望一個很清楚的一個狀態從不同的角度來看我們一個這樣核能政策的一個轉彎的時候我們社會到底承擔了多少的成本那麼接下來我想問一件事情就是我們從2006年開始的時候每一週都有一個油價的一個浮動調整的一個"},{"start":4366.697,"end":4382.263,"text":"的一個評估對不對2006年到現在已經20年了那我想請教一下因為當時我們從中東這邊進口的有很多所以我們的公視當中很清楚講到了一個所謂的7D 3B這樣的一個計價原則"},{"start":4385.624,"end":4407.833,"text":"對不對那這個部分呢因為最近總統在講說我們到中油經過中油要跟中油講謝謝我都覺得很莫名其妙為什麼因為現在我們大部分的油是從哪邊進口從美油進口對不對從美國進口嘛美國進口這種狀態的時候我們7D 3B這樣的一個公式還要繼續嗎還是我們要做一個怎麼樣的調整可不可以請次長做個說明"},{"start":4416.332,"end":4434.364,"text":"因為我們那個那個油的進口我們希望說能夠盡量未來會減少在中東方面的這個油源 是所以目前我們從中東這邊進口的狀態已經低於四成可是我們的浮動油價消費者買到的油的時候呢還是用比較"},{"start":4434.804,"end":4449.641,"text":"高的中東的油價這邊來當作大頭啊來算那我覺得這某個部分等於是中油佔了消費者的便宜總統竟然還叫我們經過中油要跟中油講謝謝我都覺得這很混淆啊跟我們報告齁"},{"start":4450.202,"end":4475.138,"text":"因為像這個中油最近他們在調度這個天然氣的這個船的時候其實每一艘船會增加10億以上的這個成本其實這些東西這個部分都沒有特別的問題我也理解這個狀態那我只是覺得說我們對於原本7D、3B這樣的一個浮動油價的一個計算公式是不是在這個時間點應該要稍微做一點調整好不好請這邊的時候我們會做檢討"},{"start":4481.722,"end":4503.892,"text":"最後的部分我們今天也特別講到AI對傳統產業的部分我想請教一下國發會跟經濟部因為現在我們整個的傳統產業能夠導入AI的狀態條件非常的不成熟光是人才大概就沒有辦法真的在傳統產業除非很大型的傳統產業它可以"},{"start":4505.493,"end":4522.309,"text":"吸納到這樣的一個人才那對於這樣子的一個情況的時候我們國發會所提出來的一個新十大建設部分我們經濟部這邊具體在落實在傳統產業這邊的一個AI升級到底有沒有足夠"},{"start":4524.03,"end":4539.063,"text":"人才這邊怎麼去做然後AI在傳統產業這邊有多少的關卡那甚至於說有一些傳統產業他們一些老舊的機台我們要不要怎麼去做幫協助他們做更新當這些基礎條件都沒有不夠的時候傳統產業怎麼去導入AI"},{"start":4541.165,"end":4559.512,"text":"在這邊跟委員報告就整個人才培育的角度來講的話我們有分兩大面一個是國內跟國外國外的話我們當然是積極地從國外去攬去攬才攬一些AI的人才在國內的話我們也有兩大部分是因為國外攬才怎麼到傳統產業裡面去你要到高科技產業本身可以理解傳統產業要找人其實是非常困難的一個狀態尤其是要AI的專業人才那你要怎麼去協助傳統產業的一個轉型"},{"start":4569.275,"end":4570.777,"text":"在那個傳統產業這一個部分的話其實經濟部這邊也有成立所謂的輔導中心那有北中南東這四個輔導中心那另外就是那個速發部也有提出人才認證的一個引導啦這個部分"},{"start":4584.372,"end":4609.449,"text":"主委站起來了我不站太多的時間請經濟部這邊給本席一個更詳細的希望我們執行到哪裡因為目前傳統產業大概只有20%左右的時候有開始去接觸AI還有超過七成以上的產業他們其實還在一個荒漠當中我們要怎麼協助他們還是要怎麼協助他們做不同的轉型轉型不一定是AI轉型我覺得這部分請經濟部給本席一個更詳細的一個報告跟說明謝謝"},{"start":4614.172,"end":4614.192,"text":"國務委員"},{"start":4631.392,"end":4646.297,"text":"主委長 建於全球能源結構性快速的一個調整歐盟也在3月份的時候公開承認降低核能占比是一個戰略的錯誤而且他們加大"},{"start":4647.438,"end":4663.699,"text":"對核能的一個投資那日本在2月份的時候也重啟核電東南亞更有很多的國家因為AI的這個資料中心用電需求暴增跟能源安全的一個考量那麼他們也加速核能發展"},{"start":4664.64,"end":4689.641,"text":"可以看出國際的能源趨勢已經很明確的朝向核能視為兼具穩定供電、低碳轉型及國家安全的重要基礎設施我們再來看看本席在跟你討論也就是說在AI產業快速的擴張跟再生能源被動性的提高之下"},{"start":4690.402,"end":4717.912,"text":"供電系統的韌性我們面臨到很大的一個挑戰那如果說我們的能源政策沒有辦法就穩定基載的這個電力提出明確的這個方向呢那恐怕要投資的人的一個信心跟整個長期的競爭力是會受影響所以本席首先要請教面對全球核能復興跟AI用電的需求爆發那麼現在我們"},{"start":4718.812,"end":4735.182,"text":"自己本身現行的能源政策是不是足以能夠來支撐未來高耗能的一個產業發展還是將這些供電的風險去轉嫁到競爭力的一個流失請主委說明"},{"start":4736.222,"end":4761.875,"text":"謝謝委員在這邊跟委員報告就是說我們目前台灣目前還沒有一個確定的一個狀況當然未來假如說一些資料中心的興建或者是AI更蓬勃的發展的話對用電的需求其實是會增加是沒有錯那就我這邊的資料來看的話經濟部這邊其實有預估未來10年的用電的情況那每一年大概會增加一個Gigawatt"},{"start":4763.015,"end":4779.387,"text":"做整個供電來講的話經濟部這邊預估就是說我們國內供電會有1.2個GW所以在未來10年看起來是供需上面來講的話應該是還不會有很大問題但是我們很難去預估說10年後的有沒有更"},{"start":4780.657,"end":4799.165,"text":"大的一個用電的那個狀況所以現階段就是說經濟部他們有再重新再評估就是說核三或者是核二這個部分的話是不是會再重新再去經由兩個必要跟三個原則的條件情況之下的話去看看就是說核能是不是"},{"start":4800.706,"end":4816.894,"text":"假如說萬一有需要的話那是不是能夠及時的提供這樣的一個供電那你身為國防會主委你以10年來計算每一天世界的變化非常的大本席也提出世界各國目前的方向是什麼"},{"start":4817.734,"end":4833.1,"text":"那如果剛剛照主委您所說的第一個我們沒有現在這樣的預估第二個你說經濟部或許他們在10年會有什麼樣的方向但是本席認為還是有形因為這樣子的一個回答"},{"start":4833.92,"end":4861.305,"text":"跟世界的一個進度跟產業的需求似乎還有很大的落差所以本席還是希望剛剛你特別說了經濟部長市長你上來了那你就回答你們的用電產業需求AI的高機載量能你們預作怎麼樣的準備好跟委員報告其實我們剛剛主委有提到我們每年都有做這個未來10年這個電力工序的調查"},{"start":4862.685,"end":4883.792,"text":"我們推估以AI的需求再加上半導體的這些需要大概2030年我們會增加5G的電力5G以上的電力但是我們台電這邊都有一個增加燃氣機組的一些裝置容量的建置我們到2034年我們會淨增加12點"},{"start":4886.613,"end":4902.286,"text":"市長 本期要請教的就是說 你照預估10年你們怎麼做但是現在加入的AI用電的一個需求爆發全世界都以核能的復興為走向你們有將這個評估納入在裡面嗎"},{"start":4906.204,"end":4921.473,"text":"這兩項因子有沒有納入在裡面目前是沒有納進來我聽到你的回答大家產業就是在憂心最重要的兩個因素你們並沒有納入我希望你好好的去思考一定要好好去思考我們今天難怪產業會緊張因為這個重點你們沒有納入那你只有告訴我們這樣難怪產業會緊張好好的去思考產業的新生你必須要聽到"},{"start":4932.659,"end":4954.354,"text":"好 接下來本席要請教 現在因為中東戰爭的這些問題全球石化的基礎原料 乙烯 丙烯這些都已經有一點失控但是你告訴我們天然氣的傳奇 順利調度是沒有問題中油吸收了多少 但是本席還是要請教"},{"start":4955.474,"end":4979.236,"text":"導致下游PE PVC PS等原料暴增40%甚至乙烯暴增97%到現在是有錢買不到料而且現在呢市長下游的廠商反映報價一缸 三期 四期都有那導致被迫配給的供料的時候呢那你們掌控"},{"start":4980.097,"end":4999.832,"text":"真實的量能產能到底是怎麼樣因為現在下單只來了一半的這個塑料這是在最基層的一個反應所以台塑化台塑也宣布不可抗力那經濟部你告訴我們你掌控的實際的這個庫存嗎它的產能跟我們供應的缺口的情況到底是怎麼樣企業界可以拿到原料嗎請說說明"},{"start":5009.199,"end":5036.377,"text":"其實那個中油今天他已經啟動了四清的這個列結廠的一個運作會增加1.9萬噸的這個乙烯的一個供應量那到下個月他會再變成增加3萬噸所以這是供內需來用的話確實是已經是足夠的那昨天中油也已經找了台聚台化跟台塑大家來面商中油也願意把這個產能來分配給他們來做這個"},{"start":5039.319,"end":5058.971,"text":"昨天這個協商也就是我們中小企業目前你們有一個本席跟你討論一下中小企業他拿不到料你們經濟部有一個說媒合的作用但是媒合下去所有的中小企業告訴我們也就是說他還是供應原廠商"},{"start":5060.012,"end":5080.241,"text":"所以他一樣拿不到料這怎麼辦表示你們的媒合的當中的效能是產生不出來的我們要看末端中小企業可以拿到這個為重點對不對是那現在你的媒合角度要怎麼樣去調整哪些廠商拿不到料可以來跟我所以你的媒合的角度"},{"start":5081.361,"end":5096.989,"text":"你的方式必須要好好去檢討因為我們共同的目標就是要讓中小企業它可以拿到料嘛你整個經濟鏈才可以啟動嘛 是不是那你將你的這個媒合的方式怎麼樣調整順便再給本席 謝謝蕭瑞職運行 謝一鳳委員"},{"start":5119.261,"end":5121.127,"text":"好謝謝主席我想要請何市長還有台電台電王總經理"},{"start":5132.383,"end":5159.641,"text":"委員好市長就教一下我們現在在談就是核能重啟的這個自主安全檢查但是我其實很想要了解的是現在核二核三的舊機組那會不會因為我們現在用的是舊機組嘛那會不會他的機組的零件現在所有的供應商已經沒有生產了"},{"start":5160.624,"end":5180.626,"text":"這個部分是不是回答一下報告委員因為2和3的基礎大概40年所以目前我們所盤點出來的結果初步大概都還有供應商在供應可以供應幾年"},{"start":5184.632,"end":5212.433,"text":"對啊因為你這牽涉到你重啟自主安全檢查如果是1.5年後那未來在1.5年後你會不會有相關的就是說零件可以使用以及未來1.5年後如果這些供應商不生產零件的時候那我們要怎麼樣子重啟那這些零件要怎麼樣子取得這是不是"},{"start":5213.234,"end":5231.93,"text":"也应该做一下说明好跟委员报告我们这样说就是分成两类一类是河岛区就是在我们的那个反应炉那一代的那个设备那个是西医西医跟基医两家公司那目前这两家公司的那个生意那个量体非常的大"},{"start":5232.45,"end":5249.006,"text":"也就是說大家都在做重啟的這樣子的準備所以相關的零組件即使沒有那它的那個設計圖原始的設計圖都還在所以還是有辦法生產還是有辦法生產是因為這兩家公司還是你也知道是非常大的公司所以是沒有什麼問題"},{"start":5249.827,"end":5263.472,"text":"那另外的就是非核導區就是外面的一些發電機、切輪機的那些設備那些設備基本上都是可以有替換性的所以即使真的沒有生產那我們可以找到替代品來替代還有"},{"start":5265.137,"end":5285.243,"text":"你知道我們進行非核假業人就是說政府推動非核假業一段時間了那現在學校裡面相關的合工的人才那會不會有相關的斷層因為其實過去一段時間當沒有這樣子相關的這個經驗的時候 未來我們要重啟核電"},{"start":5286.583,"end":5312.893,"text":"這合工人才從何而來而且我們所有過去的合工人才會不會因為現在其他國家重啟核電了嘛那又大量的用核電那會不會已經跑到了周邊的 鄰近的這些國家日本 韓國 大陸等等去對不對 會不會去那裡就是工作那未來我們的人才怎麼辦"},{"start":5313.766,"end":5339.987,"text":"跟委員報告我們分兩個部分來看一個是既有人才在引進的部分就是學校那個部分我們其實每年都就是之前每年都有跟一些大學合作就是合工人才的引進其實持續在進行只是量稍微少一點所以等於是學校的培養的部分這個部分還是有的那有沒有被挖角就是原先的被挖角去別的地方"},{"start":5340.447,"end":5356.818,"text":"部分也會被挖掉那你們台電裡面的咧我們台電相對因為你們台電裡面的人也都走掉了台電有台電人的精神所以比較不會他們比較忠誠所以比較不會被挖了那這是第一點第二個就是我們還跟國研院"},{"start":5357.939,"end":5386.815,"text":"還有那個就是工研院這些外面的研究機構也在合作就是在做加強訓練讓他們在證照區的跟實務的運轉經驗方面在做強化所以這等於是內外就是新舊的同仁都有在持續的做這方面的經驗所以在那個試運轉計劃所以如果核電重啟不會有人才斷才的斷成的這個現象是不是這是必要條件所以我們人才的準備是一定要做到所以你們現在就充足了嗎"},{"start":5388.195,"end":5405.927,"text":"呃持續在擴充當中持續在擴充現在有減少所以持續在擴充當初減少是因為有一部分同仁退休嗯好退休那我們有再新進一些同仁補充好所以你們現在在新增人才當中就對了是都有些補充補充的這些人才的培訓都是我們在強化的重點"},{"start":5406.721,"end":5430.493,"text":"好 市長我再就教一下我們過去就是因應美國關稅的影響我們編了就是460億的預算那就是希望說協助這些企業在升級 資金等等的技術的方面可是我看到了460億的預算現在只核准了762加33.4億是不是"},{"start":5435.535,"end":5454.726,"text":"第一個是不是我們的方案沒有辦法協助廠商所以他們沒有申請還是就是說核准的時間過慢還是怎麼樣子是不是請這個部分說明一下新聞報告因為我們這460億的預算的編列包括研發補助包括市場拓銷還有這個融資保證"},{"start":5456.947,"end":5473.972,"text":"以及利息補貼等等所以在這邊呈現的可能只是一個部分而已所以我們現在每一個大概每一兩個禮拜我們都會追蹤而且會發布新聞稿會把我們的461的使用的狀況會跟社會大眾來做交代是現在我們會再送是因為是沒有統計進去應該是就是說我今天呈現的可能只是一部分跟這個AI應用有關的這個部分"},{"start":5486.176,"end":5505.556,"text":"那什么时候可以把一个具体的统计数据给委员会可以我们是不是一个礼拜一个礼拜内把具体的数据给委员会好不好把具体的数据给委员会最后我就叫一下国科会的业主委是国科会业主委"},{"start":5507.939,"end":5525.264,"text":"葉主委我想請教一下就是說現在我們對於要推動的這些數位就是傳產的數位化還有AI的普及率其實我必須要了解說國發會有沒有一個很清楚的KPI"},{"start":5526.024,"end":5546.918,"text":"以及就是說能夠去追蹤我們現在數位化或AI化因為對傳產來講他很難去自己去跨入那個門檻那所以你必須要協助必須要引導嘛那你們有一個KPI你們現在KPI是什麼有就是輔導這個部分來講的話我們在今年的3月"},{"start":5547.839,"end":5555.402,"text":"底為止我們大概福島的加次有1584那我們116年的目標大概會14000強那就普及率這個部分來講的話在提供AI的那個解決方案這個部分來講的話我們114年底是預計114年底的話我們目標是266個AI的模型"},{"start":5572.168,"end":5589.974,"text":"那我們116年底的話會希望說再增加140個AI的模型來協助中小企業導入AI的技術我是說國發會即便是你們做了非常多的模型其實我說的KPI或者是說真的能夠對於中小企業有成效的是說怎麼樣子協助他們轉型"},{"start":5592.495,"end":5608.958,"text":"就是說有用的嘛不是說多嘛是不是能夠真的協助他們有用而不是多有用的也許幾個就夠了那能夠協助他們真正的轉型而不是說你們設計了非常多的模型出來結果都沒有用"},{"start":5611.159,"end":5631.63,"text":"我們譬如說像在福島這一塊的話其實我們都有在追蹤案例譬如說像福島這一塊的話我們其實舉一個比較指標性的案例就是榮泰銅器公司我們都有在追蹤這幾個特定一些案例然後看這些案例是不是能夠把它散播出去給其他中小微企業做參考"},{"start":5632.658,"end":5650.395,"text":"對 我是說只要有用就是一個 也許就可以大家共同使用而不是說我們發展出很多的模型 結果一個都沒有用我們就這些指標性的案例 我們會繼續追蹤 而且繼續推廣謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝謝一鋒委員來 請先回座 委員賴慧如賴慧如賴慧如委員賴慧如先生賴慧如委員"},{"start":5660.083,"end":5675.515,"text":"好 謝謝召委 請何次長請金副何次長何次長我先請教一下這個塑膠袋的這個事件這為什麼會發生"},{"start":5677.2,"end":5693.087,"text":"當然就是我也知道現在就是整個美伊戰爭從中東的這些來的原油還有清油的部分他的船的這個運量可能受到影響所以連帶就影響到"},{"start":5693.887,"end":5714.695,"text":"所以現在處理方案是有加速來做公益嗎 校園長也要到剛剛提到我們中游其實在世青的部分今天已經重啟了那我另外要問的是除了這之外有沒有人刻意去烘台跟刻意去"},{"start":5716.695,"end":5741.102,"text":"所以昨天這個法務部也啟動了這個所謂聯絡稽查的這樣的一個行動那藉由我們經濟部還有公民會大家一起去了解一下市面上是不是有這樣的一個現象我們還是要提醒因為像這樣的事件因為像會有一些偶發的事件發生那發生了之後可能請經濟部這邊也要立即的去掌握狀況因為市場上的一些波動你們會掌握到"},{"start":5741.522,"end":5766.082,"text":"那如果有這樣的狀況當然如果是需要給物料增加我們盡快增加但如果說有人刻意在囤積有人刻意在烘台甚至希望去這個獲取這樣一個戰爭財的話我覺得這個要立即有效率做處理因為經濟部在這邊也扮演關鍵角色該啟動相關程序就要啟動我覺得這個未來我希望這個速度再更快一點那另外是可能要更提高警覺因為這樣的狀況"},{"start":5768.324,"end":5785.615,"text":"有新人絕對會在裡面去做更多的一些煽動那人心恐慌的時候 我想就會造成很多的分人是好不好 好 請這個再多多注意那所以像包括幾個五金的百貨的已經都已經有充分供應了嘛對不對是 我們都"},{"start":5786.195,"end":5806.44,"text":"都有在做調查這個就是讓人民安心的方案是政府有作為的話立即有作為人民安心的話這件事情很快就會消下去了是有原料充分的供應然後同時去打壓有任何可能囤積或者是這樣的一個行為的時候那這樣的然後同時讓大家知道充分的供應那這樣的訊息很快就壓下去了是"},{"start":5806.94,"end":5823.4,"text":"好 我希望未來密切注意再來我請教一下次長其實包括我跟邱昭榮我們都一直關心的這個中南部的一些產業的研發跟整個前瞻的我們不斷地強調它跟台北之間的落差還是相當大光這裡面其實也追了很多次到現在台北的是"},{"start":5824.221,"end":5847.022,"text":"Aplus這個部分230加21%的比例而在南台灣的重症高雄73加6.68我希望次長跟部長也要思考要找到一些方案讓我們不斷強調啦如果這些東西職群還是一樣集中在北部的話那南部的能量還是受到很大的影響我希望次長能不能定一個目標就是多久時間能夠達到"},{"start":5848.723,"end":5873.132,"text":"不敢說馬上就像台北這樣的水準但至少積極的去輔導去協助讓至少能夠達到一半以上的一個水準好 跟我們報告其實我們現在已經有輔導團那過去很多的這個企業他為什麼在申請政府資源會有一些困難是因為他們第一個就是不會寫計畫書第二個可能找不到主題"},{"start":5873.832,"end":5902.602,"text":"所以藉由我們這些法人團隊這個都是老問題的在兩年前我也都這樣那我希望的是要很刻意有心的去協助他們協助他們賺血跟協助他們找到那我希望我們從目標來看我希望在這半年內我看到的是高雄這整體的量其實是至少達到了台北的一半我們來努力現在大概只三分之一左右而已我希望至少達到一半讓那個整個拉上來而這個要設定一個目標"},{"start":5903.382,"end":5926.91,"text":"那經濟部跟所有的法人應該要朝這個目標去全力推進好不好我下次還會再質詢這個題目我希望看到的時候這個數字已經拉上來而不是只是在講著他們本身的這個相關的比較沒有經驗或鑽寫能力比較弱啊等等我想透過福老團應該我們可以把這個比例可以再往上我希望在下次三個月後在質詢這次這樣的議題的時候已經看到了整個拉上來了我希望達到一半的水準是好不好"},{"start":5927.37,"end":5956.349,"text":"再來我請教一下中油台電其實這陣子很辛苦因為包括中東的戰爭包括過去以來的原物料的上漲的部分中油台電吸收了很多本來好不容易有獲利的空間就最近遇到了中東的戰爭受到影響我也希望未來給予中油跟台電更多的支持在於整個包括中油的一些增資包括台電的補助的部分這個能不能請經濟部持續來協助"},{"start":5958.13,"end":5976.72,"text":"我們一直都很支持台電跟中油在挹注更多的這些資源給他們來穩定物價然後照顧民生那當然也希望獲得國內委員的支持那我先問一下現在中油的增資現在的進度是到哪邊"},{"start":5979.685,"end":5999.798,"text":"目前是已經報到行政院去了報到行政院了所以院裡面會支持吧目前行政院應該是會支持但是這個我們會編入預算還是需要送到立法院這邊來做審查所以現在已經送到行政院了院裡面也會支持然後送到立法院來了那另外台電的補助呢有規劃了嗎"},{"start":6001.399,"end":6012.368,"text":"台電目前大概也是就是說我們希望原來是希望說能源價格因為去年有要編嗎 現在有要編經費再來補助台電嗎目前還沒有"},{"start":6017.932,"end":6042.243,"text":"但是我們看整個情況的一個發展如果需要的話我們再來研議當然從去年情況本來這個獲利狀況不錯啦但現在又遇到了中東這樣的問題我希望該支持台電該支持中油的部分我希望經濟部跟行政院還是要全力的支持不要讓他們在第一線承擔國家一些政策上的要求反倒是讓台電的公司跟台電的員工受到的影響經濟部的全力支持好 謝謝謝謝賴總委員 國務院請先回座"},{"start":6048.706,"end":6058.76,"text":"下一位執行請李玉玲委員謝謝主席 請次長 何次長"},{"start":6067.469,"end":6087.004,"text":"委員好 次長因為國際能源局勢的震盪我們國內的產業跟民生用電不斷的提高所以我們的政府也要重新的來檢視我們能源政策的合理性也把我們的核能列為選項之一但是本席要在這邊強調我們的再生能源部分我們還是要來重視那現在本來是再生能源在2025年的時候我們達到20%那部長後來也坦言了可能就要二度跳票"},{"start":6096.531,"end":6121.584,"text":"但是我們不能無限期一直延宕所以請問這個20%我們什麼時候可以達到當然這個會隨著我們這個用電的成長因為母樹會成長你就評估說什麼時候不用講這個細則啦我們會再努力啦努力就是每年所以無限期延期不會 應該也會很快就會達到因為我們2030年有一個目標"},{"start":6122.584,"end":6123.425,"text":"所以你沒有時間表啦"},{"start":6146.507,"end":6167.814,"text":"至少去年會講今年啊那你今年不敢講什麼時候各種不同的這個綠能包括小水利包括這個所以總評估會什麼時候達成不知道當然我們現在會滾動但是2030年會達到嗎2030年會到百分之三十的這樣的目標百分之三十是哪一年達到2030年2030年就要達到對好那你知道2050年要達到多少嗎"},{"start":6173.274,"end":6177.879,"text":"你們有一個淨零排放的這個路徑嘛國發會公布的 葉主委"},{"start":6179.223,"end":6190.566,"text":"大概60到70左右了好這都是你我們的指標我希望你們能夠努力那本席會這樣子問就是憂心因為美伊這個戰爭不知道什麼時候結束那我們受到中東部分的這個原油的問題我們現在也要分散我們的能源的採購到澳洲跟美國那但是我們跟中東不只是買賣的關係我們還有投資的關係就是卡達我們有投資了北方"},{"start":6208.989,"end":6214.113,"text":"棄田東段計畫將近有5%的這個股權109億那現在戰爭一直在發生有沒有在評估我們在這方面的話我們的設備等等這些設備還有這個投資的預算會不會增加"},{"start":6229.892,"end":6234.614,"text":"那本來是今年11月會要生產啦 但是後來因為戰事的關係每年會分配40萬桶的 40萬噸的這個40萬噸的天然氣 那現在已經停工了那明年的40萬噸就不可能了 是不是"},{"start":6252.236,"end":6268.046,"text":"會不會 明年會不會我們會再尋找替代替代的這個來源所以明年就不可能有40萬噸的天然氣嗎其實我們會有其他的從其他國家來的本來我們預估明年會分配回來現在沒有辦法分配了那可以知道什麼時候分配回來嗎"},{"start":6269.692,"end":6283.326,"text":"因為我們都沒有去評估這個風險看整個戰事還有整個設備那這個戰事已經發生了因為他也一直攻擊了這個卡達的那個油田的嘛那如果這種情形我們會不會我們會不會要增加這個投資的預算"},{"start":6290.094,"end":6311.901,"text":"可能我們要先了解一下這些都要評估出來因為我們現在受到全球能源供給的壓力所以中油這部分也要趕快跟其他的國家簽約但是我們現在看到美國的川普本來是對俄羅斯有制裁所以大家都沒有再跟俄羅斯簽約那現在"},{"start":6313.721,"end":6332.094,"text":"我們國家本來2017年到2022年有跟俄羅斯簽約後面就沒有簽約了那現在放寬的時候我們要不要繼續簽約目前是沒有考慮到沒有考慮繼續簽約的部分因為在別的國家已經有採購了是嗎是 我們有其他的來源我們盡量就是說從美國 從其他西非 巴西這些國家來調度好"},{"start":6341.481,"end":6346.656,"text":"那接下來我們想謝謝那個部長你就先請回我請葉主委喔"},{"start":6347.968,"end":6375.776,"text":"藝術委 委員好AI是我們一直在推的尤其是製造業的AI我們是用輔導在輔導那AI現在是新十大建設啦那而且也特別你們國發會有評估出來說如果說AI在2040年可以創造15兆的產值50萬的高薪工作機會這個評估這個目標會不會太過於樂觀你有沒有短中長期的一個計畫有有有 因為就"},{"start":6378.004,"end":6399.206,"text":"第一個就是說我們這個設定那個2040年45兆的話其實有一個設算的基礎其實我們會就我們目前比如說到2028年我們會達到哪一個目標那2035年會達到哪一個目標那2040年也會達到所以有短中長期的計畫嗎你必須有短中長期的話我們才可以知道說你們的成效的一個成果出來"},{"start":6400.347,"end":6419.321,"text":"那為什麼要這樣子問因為我們看到一般的製造業的AI我們看到製造業我們要輔導的產業全台灣製造業總共有9.96萬家到目前去年10月份你們的資料裡面在產業的輔導你有個產業的輔導團現在輔導只有526家而且這526家幾乎是大企業"},{"start":6430.516,"end":6441.845,"text":"獨厚大企業那一般的中小企業的你們有沒有在輔導這個部分的話我們還是就經濟部的資料來講的話經濟部會持續在推動所謂的輔導中心那經濟部我們請問何次長"},{"start":6447.23,"end":6455.376,"text":"你們有沒有認真說這個不會不會說只讀後發企業啦其實我們對中小企業最主要還是也輔導中小企業為主啦可是目前裡面526家我們將近有10萬家的製造業喔你只有輔導526家這比例原則會讓未來的話沒有跟上的話就被淘汰了跟我們報告我們的報告裡面是有1723家我們已經有協助這麼多的家屬來協助他們做AI技術的運用總共有將近10萬家"},{"start":6477.35,"end":6505.703,"text":"對 所以我們現在還是持續在輔導輔導當中所以我們希望你們擴大輔導的這些資源這些能量不然的話沒有跟上去的人就會被淘汰了而且不要都獨厚大企業變成大企業的專利好不好是 謝謝謝謝李議員委員來 國安委員請先回座消費諮詢請陳昌明委員陳昌明委員待會你諮詢完 麻煩你留下等一下你記錯了 你留下因為下一位置我諮詢"},{"start":6514.89,"end":6519.515,"text":"主席啊首先有請我們國安會業主委還有我們經濟部的副部長委員長"},{"start":6527.119,"end":6556.278,"text":"首先我請教一下尤其國發會的主委跟我們經濟部的何處長你覺得美以跟伊朗的戰爭這個是能源戰整個現在打得很激烈你覺得這樣的問題會持續多久不要隨便回答你是我們經濟計畫最主要的一個規劃者經濟部是主要在執行著"},{"start":6557.62,"end":6573.037,"text":"您的看法怎麼樣依照美國智庫的預估啦這個比較有可能的情況是會打四周到八周所以從二月底這樣推算回來應該在四月底之前這是機率比較高這是美國的智庫預估的"},{"start":6574.258,"end":6600.516,"text":"但是整个世界都变化现在谁也不能掌控谁谁也不能掌控别人我觉得这个战争可能会持续很久美国之后讲四到八座好像他们答应如果从其他的群来看的话这场仗打起来是会天翻地覆的那我现在你们不能讲四到八座你要有长远的规划"},{"start":6601.933,"end":6627.819,"text":"萬一我們的天然氣如果能不能在別的地方能繼續的採購現在每一條船幾乎都增加了10億萬一這個世界一直在動盪不安在持續亂下來我們的對岸把你封鎖起來你要怎麼辦所以做任何事情你要想要做到一個最壞的打算"},{"start":6629.039,"end":6636.607,"text":"你們現在抱得很平安但是這裡面牽扯很大你一定要做到最壞的狀況會成什麼樣子但是我們都會再做滾動式的調整不會說因為這樣子我們就放棄了後面的規劃對 當然要準備"},{"start":6645.396,"end":6660.114,"text":"你說都要採購油鹽有沒有很薄如果那邊繼續下來整個都封掉了包括紅磚包括沙烏地那整個整個油漆都會被打掉生殖劑都會被打掉看起來現在的局勢是這樣"},{"start":6661.495,"end":6689.081,"text":"經濟部的資料告訴我們就是說五月底之前LNG是沒問題那六月的話也大部分都已經到位大概只剩下六七三還沒有但這個都持續在補充當中那我們會隨著整個局勢的變化做滾動式的調整要為臺灣的能源做好最大的一個準備萬一能源斷了臺灣的命脈我大概會指揮一下所以你們要好好努力好好加油謝謝委員那第二個問題我要請教"},{"start":6690.901,"end":6719.001,"text":"現在剛剛那個中委員提到那上次我請教我們經濟部長所有石化的產品都在漲價都買不到貨那我們的拱部長說買不到貨不可能我問他如果苗栗的工廠買不到貨我跟他調他說好沒有問題但是這樣的情形已經在發生這個發生了又要通貨膨脹所以控制不了"},{"start":6719.801,"end":6746.182,"text":"因為你來人稀少你缺貨這是我們要面臨的問題所以在這一方面我們要如何來應對要來準備假如委員有知道哪一家廠商掉不到貨的話可以請經濟部我還沒我是在高鐵上兩三家碰到我做售銷的我跟您報告一下因為最主要我們是要讓這個他講的台收那個是真的我們國內的市場要那麼穩定你不要以為假的"},{"start":6747.063,"end":6769.569,"text":"是以前廠商都跟我們講暫停報價暫停停貨4月1號才報價所以我們現在當務之急就是說第一個確保生產不會斷貨斷料那所以台塑今天中油已經啟動了四清的一個運作那今天開始這個月會增加1.9萬"},{"start":6771.669,"end":6798.53,"text":"噸的這個乙烯那下個月會增加變三萬噸所以這樣的一個供給量他會優先供給給做塑膠袋做衣材的這個廠商來加速這個生產我要接到一個消息現在我們啊公家單位在鋪柏油路的也要斷貨了都是停止不報價了不報價了那很多道路都鋪到一半都停下來啊是"},{"start":6799.75,"end":6824.556,"text":"這個輪入要特別注意的一個現象那個綠圈大概以前都是進口啦那現在這都是從中東、伊朗進口那個比較便宜啦現在整個所以你們要掌握整個狀況要有靈活的應用好不好還有剛剛講到10年10年4月1號宣布它的石油它的油氣不出口啦"},{"start":6825.444,"end":6839.348,"text":"全部擋下來所以我們面臨的危機跟美國我們能不能買得到跟澳洲能不能買得到大家都在搶貨這個要特別注意一下我希望這個要好好做應用的設施"},{"start":6841.309,"end":6865.977,"text":"再來談到AIAI的話真的是百功百業我希望國華會我們的經濟部跟社會部要去分工你要如何去分工?因為這就叫學習要成長要跟人一樣當然現在人的機器人還有很多零件不能像人這樣的靈活那腦力的方面這邊大概沒有問題"},{"start":6867.337,"end":6888.276,"text":"現在就是在你的視覺在你視覺在你手腳的應用要自行判斷所以百工百業每一個人在學習的環境不一樣尤其我們前端的話包括設計那些我們困難但是我們在製造方面專長但是我們最重要一塊就是說皮子電安捏"},{"start":6889.457,"end":6904.03,"text":"你要設計一個模型啊那個譬如水泥工要什麼模型都要設計出來以後才會有成效那我一直強調一件事情要學習的熱潮那要應用AI最重要要會問問題"},{"start":6906.812,"end":6923.119,"text":"問問題才能去得到一個正確的答案所以如果學習這場像電視台那些名字叫他們不要亂講你要播一段時間政府播一段時間講AI的重要讓全民去學習那都是亂講話啦"},{"start":6924.66,"end":6953.229,"text":"我們是講真的話在立法會我們都很清楚你大王他這樣現在很多人在看他這樣看他越新鮮越好越刺激越好但是都說一些無所謂我是指到說你們強制每一個電視台每一個名嘴在那個廣播的節目請大家學習AI增強台灣未來的競爭力讓大家曉得這個事情的重要你們在說"},{"start":6954.289,"end":6983.157,"text":"有做生意的人做產業的人有了解但是很多不曉得怎樣去實力因為這都有基礎老師的經驗也不交給你第二交給你以後給AI人來做他的職位又要被替代了這個人性的問題在這邊要如何去突破要如何這樣子台灣每一個人有學習AI的這種熱場因為這是未來的一個戰力非常非常的重要"},{"start":6984.137,"end":7000.142,"text":"白宮白夜市在經濟部那邊把他分門白列找一家公司專門研究他怎樣做蛋糕怎樣去那個都是要學習的一個過程把他思考裡面才會應用得當我確實說不知道會不會開始"},{"start":7002.943,"end":7031.062,"text":"每一個大的變化裡面在推動都非常困難但是我們一定要持之有百工百業把它分類一下大概有幾個行業有那一種模型可以來做然後做出來大家能通用個人的技術個人的know-how他把它輸到裡面就可以去改變了好不好好謝謝謝謝陳昌平委員那就麻煩陳昌平委員幫我代一下主席"},{"start":7040.666,"end":7044.351,"text":"現在我們請教會求職委員員執行謝謝主席 邀請經濟部核市長 國會業主委另外農業組 吳署長委員長"},{"start":7061.533,"end":7077.786,"text":"星期五經濟委會在新達電廠的考察針對電協經的相關制度引起地方上很大的問題會中決議一個月之內提出相關檢討辦法一個月大概就是四月底"},{"start":7078.447,"end":7101.741,"text":"提出來可以嗎?是可以可以讓大家都可以接受到雙贏地方都可以接受然後台電也可以執行然後這個整個制度設計一定要跟地方上多充分說明還跟市政府跟像當地的這些里長可以吧?可以好謝謝那個署長先請回那我先請教這個運動也是一種產業"},{"start":7106.195,"end":7127.395,"text":"像這個你看職棒剛37年剛開幕滿場4萬多人這個在10年前這個大概不會有這種攏景因為這個時候項目得到冠軍然後這個變成一個大家非常去進場去看球是一種修行也是一種活動"},{"start":7128.817,"end":7135.561,"text":"那幾乎每一場都人數都是上萬以上所以怎麼樣去協助國發會跟經濟部啊國發會"},{"start":7138.482,"end":7166.638,"text":"你們有經濟處嘛對不對有產業發展處嘛那這個經濟部的話是哪一個單位針對運動產業你怎麼樣讓運動產業能夠比方說我舉一個例子來說以前日本這個職業足球剛開始的時候人沒有很多他用政策去協助租稅讓這些公司成立這個球團然後行銷啦然後跟國際合作等等"},{"start":7167.919,"end":7183.099,"text":"每一場都4萬人所以怎麼樣讓運動產業能夠有一個發展的一個好的環境我想應該是國發會跟經濟部來同力合作市長你先說一下根本報告今年那個國科會"},{"start":7185.522,"end":7208.831,"text":"他會開一個策略會議就針對這個運動這個產業所以我們會配合這個國發會的整個整理規劃那我們經濟部不管是技術師或是產業發展署未來就是也會找一些相關的產業我們來做一些AI運用的一些推動好 這個部分國發會呢國發會扮演什麼角色"},{"start":7210.692,"end":7218.034,"text":"在運動部裡面它本身就有所謂的產業發展條例那我們也會順著這樣一個產業發展條例我們國發會這邊會提供國發基金那我們也會鼓勵運動部來申請所謂的那個百億基金你們有文化部 有數位部 好像沒有運動部其實我們都一直在鼓勵運動部來申請七大產業的百億計畫裡面沒有這個運動產業"},{"start":7238.038,"end":7263.032,"text":"我們希望他趕快來申請那你要編預算啊,你的預算要...有有有,我們那個其實都有在規劃當中啊現在就是說持續的在跟那個運動部那邊在商討就是說他們怎麼樣把這個計畫送過來這樣子職棒已經站穩腳步了職男也開始有明顯成長現在還有職業排球還有羽球啊這些羽球啊,但是以後有足球"},{"start":7264.437,"end":7288.082,"text":"日本以前那個沒有人去看職業足球的那現在職業足球進場人數比職棒還多那是要有策略去引導國家來協助會會會謝謝那繼續請教一下何市長這個扣建扣建被稱為是工業之謎那扣建目前遇到的困境包括國際市場需求的大崩潰這準備又遲到了"},{"start":7289.602,"end":7317.956,"text":"是在美國市場那加上中國的地價競爭就會陷入平庸化的陷阱還會成本增加勞動力增加勞動力成本增加減碳的壓力等等那要怎麼讓這個台灣的螺絲擴建能夠維持國際的競爭力啊一定要拿出這個好的策略我覺得應該有一個怎麼樣協助擴建產業轉型升級你要有一個政策的白皮書用這個白皮書來做個引導提出具體的解方啦"},{"start":7318.885,"end":7346.116,"text":"比如說你所有的扣件所有的國內公共城所有的國內的這些不要說公家的啦或者是民間的這些需要扣件的都用國產的扣件然後你要怎麼樣用AI高質化的轉型把這個螺絲扣件朝向高質化比如說航太啦AI啦半導體相關的這個螺絲不要停留在這個比較傳統的低階螺絲"},{"start":7349.591,"end":7353.74,"text":"我發現如果用國防相關的螺絲可以得到關稅減免"},{"start":7356.078,"end":7384.837,"text":"是這樣子是沒錯現在我們跟或是太空等等我們跟美方這邊已經也達成一個協議就是說針對汽車零組件的部分已經可以有15%的優惠的稅率那航空零組件的部分這個關稅的稅率也可以豁免就是特殊螺絲你要把政策引導團把這些相關螺絲導向這個關稅可以減免的那些品項是不要大家一窩蜂還是停留在比較低階的螺絲"},{"start":7386.138,"end":7411.923,"text":"是我們現在輔導方向也是這樣另外這個能源的問題那你們像有三個機制比如說你要提前領貨提前領貨然後另外就是說要請這個同業調貨同業調貨同業就是跟日本函股那第三個是市場買現貨這三個你們應用方案目前執行情況怎麼樣"},{"start":7412.769,"end":7433.456,"text":"目前應該都有朝著這樣的一個方向所以包括像我們 朝著方向有沒有具體的做提醒你 提醒你掉貨掉多少貨到五月份的這個天然氣的部分都已經掉足了那六月份已經有七成的這個船隻都已經掉起來半年之內沒有斷氣的危機吧不會不會 一年之內呢"},{"start":7434.356,"end":7457.404,"text":"對 我們一年之內也不會有斷線 你要保證半年之內不會有任何斷線的可能性因為有一個法定存量在 那我們不可能是你這三個因應方案如果確實執行 我還比較有信心我就怕你提出這方案 沒有辦法去執行包括提前調貨 包括你要跟日本 韓國相互支援 這個做得到嗎"},{"start":7458.184,"end":7477.299,"text":"對 我們現在就是都在市場上就是只要有貨我們大概就是不管是現貨或是這個跟同業家我要看出數據跟刺激的好我要看出你們這三大因應方案這一個月來你們執行的狀況怎麼樣你會後再給我一個書面資料好的謝謝好 謝謝委員"},{"start":7500.214,"end":7518.461,"text":"校委請鄭天才委員鄭天才委員質詢之後我們休息五分鐘必要時延長一分鐘主席有請這個經濟部市長還有我們國發會主委"},{"start":7530.941,"end":7557.86,"text":"兩位大家辛苦了今天的議題都非常非常的重要我們召委安排的我們的經濟發展就是長期以來就是要由國發會的前身經建會早期然後就是我們經濟部一直以來"},{"start":7559.328,"end":7585.905,"text":"來去促請行政院院長甚至總統來去推動來去能夠讓你們去執行我們看今天的經濟部的報告裡面第一句話能源供應穩定光復國家安全確實是這樣"},{"start":7587.985,"end":7615.146,"text":"不只是經濟發展還涉及到國家的安全從這段時間的美與伊朗這樣的一個中東的戰爭更能夠體會到我們看這個特別剛提到早期的經濟部長早期的經建會早期的政務委員"},{"start":7616.943,"end":7623.693,"text":"怎麼樣去說服當時的行政院院長甚至總統你看我們合一從1971年開始興建到1978年"},{"start":7630.541,"end":7643.954,"text":"當時很快啊,1978年,現在很慢啊,現在很多問題啊,現在還有很多的程序啊,以前的程序不會那麼冗長啊。1971年開始興建,1978年就開始啟用了。我們合二,1974年。"},{"start":7651.988,"end":7664.133,"text":"都很早,這邊很多年輕的公務員都還沒出生了1974年開始興建河,1981年就開始啟用河山1981年開始興建,1984年就開始啟用所以這樣的,然後這段時間大家一直爭執爭議"},{"start":7679.473,"end":7705.628,"text":"這個賴總統也感謝立法院修正了這個核管法所以要啟動核二核三所以這個都是一個這個國發會跟經濟部共同的要去協調相關的部會協調各個政黨不同的意見然後往這個經濟發展往國家的安全"},{"start":7706.748,"end":7726.658,"text":"來去推動這個是我們共同去回憶過去然後再看看現在然後我們共同的去促成所以這個2月28號中東情勢持續升級就是美以一的戰爭"},{"start":7728.727,"end":7740.362,"text":"現在已經是四月了又一個月了現在四月一號了所以這個什麼時候會停不知道所以這樣的一個我們要有更長遠的"},{"start":7742.345,"end":7766.851,"text":"一個規劃當然你們這段時間也有好的規劃了也有做調整這個我們的油價這些我們的油的來源各方面的來源也做了這一些調整所以這樣一情形之下這個我們看這個汽油柴油"},{"start":7770.27,"end":7795.769,"text":"我们看这个计算的公式指标油价日期70%是这个杜拜30%是这个布兰特这样的一个计算之后有调降为什么有降低那为什么我们的这个"},{"start":7800.942,"end":7814.955,"text":"禮拜一還漲價這個禮拜一啊還漲價禮拜天還去加油啊所以這個部分到底是什麼原因什麼因素那個經濟部的說明嗎"},{"start":7816.429,"end":7832.815,"text":"根文報告這個油價的漲幅他是會根據這個當週啦當週的這個國際油價就是剛剛講的布蘭特原油跟那個杜拜原油的這個油價的一個均值來做調整然後加上匯率"},{"start":7833.815,"end":7851.829,"text":"那當然就是我們一直在強調就是說現在市場上調貨的一些成本我們並沒有把它加入到這樣的一個價格的一個計算裡面來那至於說油價的公式是不是合理這個部分我想我們這個中油這個部分會再來做檢討"},{"start":7853.81,"end":7872.706,"text":"那當然現在整個油價的公式 如同剛剛委員提到的我們油大部分來自於美國所以這個部分的一個公式的換算的部分是不是我們再來做一些研議 做一些調整中油要不要來說明一下"},{"start":7873.987,"end":7897.997,"text":"這個為什麼按照這個公司啊是這個公司是有調價啊那這個我們國內油品價格的調整是按照國際價格的漲幅啊幅度啦那目前以布朗特來講的話已經漲70%那大家可以看到我們國內的零售的價格漲幅是遠低於它的"},{"start":7898.757,"end":7922.498,"text":"所以油品的這個組合的比例事實上是政府跟中油這邊在談吸收部分的多寡所以社會大眾認為說好像我們沒有吸收這麼多其實重點在這裡但是重要的是說我們要讓國內的油品供應無虞這個量要充分供應所以價格方面我們來讓民眾感覺到波動比較少"},{"start":7925.501,"end":7952.027,"text":"那至於說剛剛那個比例我們在過去這20年來那個油價公司也經過了9次的調整就是隨著時事的改變那目前呢我們也在找那個各個研究機構來協助開始要找他們來檢討把過去段時間譬如說運費漲了這麼多但是原來的浮動壓機子沒有考慮運費啊你現在這種情況下河母只能不能動了河海危險一併納入 謝謝"},{"start":7954.587,"end":7972.015,"text":"謝謝你的說明不管怎麼樣這個應該要檢討油價的計算公式這個部分你剛也說了所以經濟部跟中油共同的來去讓我們的當然很重要的"},{"start":7973.186,"end":7994.312,"text":"不漲價當然是最好的就想辦法世界要和平不要有戰爭這是最重要的謝謝政見財委員請關羽先回座現在休息五分鐘"},{"start":8002.195,"end":8003.517,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":8028.456,"end":8029.396,"text":"我可以去那裡嗎?"},{"start":8045.842,"end":8046.643,"text":"不會有邀請"},{"start":8075.902,"end":8078.884,"text":"這個已經是世界幾乎是最棒的"},{"start":8095.489,"end":8103.232,"text":"我覺得今天就是目前看起來就是就是台塑跟獨家公司兩個開心其他就是其他都沒有聊"},{"start":8111.138,"end":8135.434,"text":"有没有看我写的?有啊我看完之后我称赞了你啊我要说出来事实吗?因为前几天我只有看标题然后他就跟我讲说是不是那天回忆你看不懂那是什么?不是是我刚刚找"},{"start":8302.874,"end":8317.457,"text":"來,列席官員請就座來,列席官員請就座好,我們繼續開會這個列席官員請就座"},{"start":8332.881,"end":8356.629,"text":"好 我們繼續開會蕭子昀 廖先祥 廖先祥 廖先祥不在林黛華 林黛華 林黛華不在林楚昀 林楚昀 林楚昀不在洪孟凱 洪孟凱 洪孟凱不在李坤臣 李坤臣 李坤臣不在葉仁芝 葉仁芝 葉仁芝不在何欣淳 何欣淳 何欣淳不在吳詩瑤 吳詩瑤 吳詩瑤不在陳定飛 陳定飛 陳定飛不在"},{"start":8359.91,"end":8377.386,"text":"陳冠廷陳冠廷陳冠廷不在 蘇清泉蘇清泉蘇燕不在張家俊張家俊張家俊不在 林健齊林健齊林健齊不在徐欣吟徐欣吟不在議會跳過了 剩下講三分鐘好"},{"start":8383.627,"end":8408.438,"text":"蘇星泉 蘇星泉不在 張家俊 張俊不在 林倩琦 林靜怡不在 徐欣怡 徐欣怡不在兩位委員會議都按照時間進行 這已經跳過了但你們來了還是會讓你們講一下"},{"start":8412.316,"end":8415.438,"text":"好那我就開始還是要再討論一下程序什麼狀況"},{"start":8441.856,"end":8468.969,"text":"因為剛剛有休息休息之後你們沒有人來嘛那誰人到我家繼續開會啊那沒有人來我當然繼續面下去啦休息就是到上休息我們從辦公室過來啊沒有啦我已經因為現場沒有人我才宣布休息嘛休息完之後你們還是沒有人來嘛那我也要繼續進行啊OK 我要我是說剛剛是你是到誰哪一個委員先到前面然後結果把我們跳掉沒有人先到前面因為"},{"start":8469.75,"end":8497.372,"text":"下一位就是休息完是這個正天才之後休息嘛那下一位是廖仙祥嘛那休息之後我繼續開會沒有人來我當然就繼續喊下去啦我想說仙祥代話沒有啦 你要尊是要替誰來一個喔三位啊沒有啦 我主席回就是要講白啦沒關係 這樣啊沒有啦 這樣啊我們再補充一下好不好你既然來了就交你這裡啦"},{"start":8498.53,"end":8514.622,"text":"那代化也來了然後這個紅碼也來了就是不是就三分鐘三分鐘三分鐘好請掉進來委員資訊好謝謝主席麻煩請我們這個何政次經濟部陳副市長還有王總經理那個台電王王總"},{"start":8518.643,"end":8534.774,"text":"好 委員好 老師好 這個能源大漲嘛 那這幾天有一個新聞啦 就是我們的中油針對這個天然氣的一個售價有調漲尤其是針對電力用戶的價格有調漲 想確認一下也包含台電公司嗎"},{"start":8536.252,"end":8553.886,"text":"有有有包含嘛對不對那我想確認一下那我們台電公司有沒有算過就是說台電已經公布調漲的比例了嘛對不對那未來對我們台電的成本的影響是多少那有沒有可能會產生民眾要感謝台電公司的一個機會可以麻煩說明一下"},{"start":8556.631,"end":8581.54,"text":"報告委員那這次的調漲是從12.6067毫米一立方公尺調升到17.8485一立方公尺所以我們這樣算一算大概一年會增加900多億一年增加如果要按照這樣的價格會增加900多億的這個成本是是是那你們現在有再評估過這個電價的調整了嗎"},{"start":8585.469,"end":8599.759,"text":"應該這樣說啦就是說這個戰爭的期間會多久還有條幅多少都是這兩個變數嘛那我們算短期嘛短期跟長期嘛如果是短期的話如果是短期的話那就是一年100億一個月100億啦一個月100億那短期再一個月100億"},{"start":8603.041,"end":8628.459,"text":"那台電因為去年還有729億稅後盈餘的這個部分所以在因應上還有一點疑慮的空間那自己說如果是真的長期那就還要再另外再思考所以我們等於是邊走邊看所以短期內我們就是台電這邊釋放的訊息就是雖然說我們天然氣的成本有提升大概一個月增加100億的一個成本但是因為我們台電去年有盈餘"},{"start":8629.139,"end":8651.97,"text":"所以說今年到目前為止還沒因為戰爭延續多久還不知道短期間內我們台電會先吸收成本還暫時先不會這個反映到我們中端的電價無論是民生或者是工業是這樣子嗎這部分是根據3月底的電價審議委員會的決議是這個樣子的3月底是這樣子那下一次開會大概是哪時候就9月底"},{"start":8652.41,"end":8667.647,"text":"所以說我們目前我們大概所有的這個用電戶可以大概放心大概在9月台電的電價審議委會之前無論天然氣的價格如何的變化我們民生或者是工業的電價原則上不會有調整機會還是有開庭時會的可能嗎"},{"start":8670.569,"end":8696.088,"text":"上一 三月底開的那個電價審議委員會並沒有提到中間要開臨時委員會確定嗎 到9月9月9月之前不會開臨時委員會目前的決議是這樣子那如果說會開的話會有會有怎樣的情況可能會觸發我要幫大家擔心一下這個部分事事多變經濟部交代還是說有上層交代我們就會再開還是說決議了3月決議不會開就是9月再開"},{"start":8698.735,"end":8721.694,"text":"因為要看這個戰事拖延多久所以還是有可能開啦 只是說我們現在台電目前是沒有啦目前是沒有 目前狀況是不會再開好 那以上了解 謝謝謝謝好 謝謝梁院長委員 關於請先回座下一位請林太二委員有請次長經濟部何次長"},{"start":8729.22,"end":8745.079,"text":"市長在我正式執行之前我先要對您所督導的一個業務我表達我的不滿就是有關特定工廠的部分在部長製作業務報告的時候我也提出質詢所以我這邊希望你們允諾能夠從現在開始"},{"start":8747.142,"end":8771.77,"text":"到119年3月以前能夠啟動所謂的忠誠計畫我列為忠誠是因為從我們法108年通過之後到現在已經執行6年了成效如何XXX 三個字今天在700家的在已經拿到特登的部分進入到土地變更有7000家 幾千家提出申請700家 幾家通過 7家"},{"start":8776.651,"end":8785.276,"text":"哇 777 真好 差勁啊然後再來你包括你列管的表面上叫做四萬家還在納管輔導的幾家通過 千家"},{"start":8789.707,"end":8807.478,"text":"差所以這樣的績效表示你的法的一個理想性跟你實質落實是不夠的嘛所以次長我知道你很認真那也事實上也希望能把這件事做好那所以我在這邊就請你提出一個忠誠計畫可以嗎"},{"start":8810.082,"end":8831.263,"text":"這個我們來研議啦你們研議那這裡面當然包括有一些這個我關心的一些這個案件我等一下我就公文給你那再來呢就是針對水利署的部分雖然不是你督導但是我認為無自來水地區裡面的偏鄉我認為太"},{"start":8833.405,"end":8851.593,"text":"的標準對人民太不利了我認為越偏鄉你政府負擔的部分應該要越多 人民應該越少那比如說我現在關心的六龜區寶萊里的蘇羅婆地區它是在寶萊裡面 寶萊裡面更進去了"},{"start":8853.555,"end":8867.593,"text":"裡面有園民區那園民區你知道多棒嗎他的無自來水可以政府補助他一戶到100萬我的這種漢人同樣那塊地我補助最高80萬我排進去還不一定排得到"},{"start":8868.374,"end":8894.966,"text":"排進去還要多少大概一戶三四十萬的那樣的評比才可以排進去耶那偏鄉永遠弱勢嘛我五自來對於永遠都是用捲一自來水捲一自來水就是髒水啦我老實講啦所以這部分針對這兩個議題我就是請您關心好針對這個9300萬家的製造業我在這邊要替他們發聲我特別指的是製造業他們在政府的政策之下"},{"start":8895.926,"end":8901.729,"text":"到底是轉型的孤兒還是說你們現在的政策是救命服務還是稻草呢好我這邊講他們的辛苦在哪裡九萬三千家的製造業正面對中美對等關係5%的懸崖你們的我就舉這個例子產業升級創新平台條例你看右邊的數字多慘你們合併的你們有兩這個從111年的60件合併的"},{"start":8925.498,"end":8949.634,"text":"到113年 3年後 7件再更慘 114年 這個去年 核定38件31件 核定在這邊38件 你到目前為止2025年的4月 我這邊是2月的資料 7件到底9萬多家的這樣的製造業在等救命前 你們一年只救31家 38家"},{"start":8951.095,"end":8974.825,"text":"那包括這樣的杯水車經根本沒有辦法讓基層製造業自生自滅好我簡單講你們的方案有兩個壟斷第一個縱北侵南 你看你的TIIP創新條例北部這五年來你核定幾家 119家南部幾家 35家這叫做你們支持中小企業 支持中南部 支持製造業嗎"},{"start":8976.306,"end":8979.888,"text":"光是TIIP這樣的創新比賽我的南部只有你北部的29%好這兩個壟斷第一個右邊這個圖這個廠商都是你們提供的除了南北的壟斷北部的壟斷以及獨厚大企業前20家一看合作鴻海偽創獨拿了3000萬到6000萬"},{"start":8999.361,"end":9014.327,"text":"但是對於我中南部尤其是大康電機 包括我南高雄只要廠商需要的AI良率的提升降低成本 降低人力你們到底支持了什麼把補助放在30萬的直通訊產業那400萬人的傳統製造業又如何呢我這邊具體要求四項第一個建立南部專項的保障"},{"start":9021.469,"end":9049.08,"text":"第二個建立基礎製造業的智慧化的核電列別第三個落實大廠帶動供應鏈第四個一個月能夠提供報告從現在開始115年的所有的南部的計畫40%以上要用在南部製造業專屬的配額第二個製造業只要涉及降低成本降低人力提高良率這三個訴求一律就是合法"},{"start":9050.1,"end":9074.43,"text":"核准下去而且呢在這個程序上的簡化讓中小企業的製造業核定的建樹增加並得到相對主額的補助大廠帶動這個小廠那再來呢在這邊我要呼籲數位製造結合AI才是競爭力數位升級不是生存錢是生存錢不是奢侈品那個次長回應一下吧"},{"start":9076.67,"end":9094.377,"text":"我們會跟委員做一個說明那其實我們在460億的那個特別預算裡面其實在南部的這個輔導的比例是有提升的那剛剛委員提到那個產算平台那個部分是因為我們現在把預算用在特別的一些主題式的"},{"start":9095.017,"end":9109.939,"text":"的這個研發補助所以剛剛委員看到數字下降所以那個主題我們南部都不需要沒有那個比方說有一些可能是因為無人機啦或是這些都是南部可能比較擅長的這種產業區的好我們再把書面剪到這邊吧重視中南部重視製造業吧謝謝"},{"start":9111.857,"end":9133.215,"text":"好 謝謝林大會委員 歡迎先回座主席這邊再講一下 因為剛剛已經跳過了所以因為委員你們都趕來 我都尊重但時間只有三分鐘 大家把握一下時間那葉元智是最後一個葉元智是最後一個了下一位諮詢請彭文凱"},{"start":9142.605,"end":9165.937,"text":"好 主席謝謝 麻煩請次長來 次長直接請教 因為我剛剛交通委員會一樣問就是中東的戰事的部分 那現在機票今天已經確定要調漲國際航空長城機票大漲2300元但現在不是機票漲的問題 而是油夠不夠用的問題"},{"start":9166.957,"end":9192.73,"text":"交通部剛剛講是說因為油的庫存等等相關還是在經濟部這邊可以掌握最實際的狀況可是現在面臨到一個部分是其他國家的航空公司來到台灣其他國家要求我國國籍的航空公司飛到他們那邊不加油就是我們要自己載油去飛啊飛來回啊那就變成是其他國家已經有在控管油了那我們到目前為止有沒有這樣的一個計畫或者是說預估來 請說明"},{"start":9195.644,"end":9216.185,"text":"我們那個原油石油的法定存量是90天那我們現在存量是到150天所以目前因應中東這個情勢我們當然中東那邊的油源可能就會減少所以目前我們的這個中油的部分已經在美國澳洲還有西非巴西這個部分調度油"},{"start":9216.966,"end":9244.986,"text":"道度游遠所以這個部分我們調度我知道都要努力嘛但我現在講說其他國家東南亞尤其東南亞東北亞國家已經有這樣的一個措施了那我們過去這幾一個月的時間從二二八到現在四月一號我們中油補貼了多少錢我們不是講是說漲價的部分我們都補貼嘛那上最新一次更新是六十幾億嘛那到今天一個月了我們航空產油是沒有我現在不會講航空產油我講全國的油"},{"start":9247.654,"end":9272.065,"text":"我們已經吸收了大概將近70億了70億啊 對嘛所以現在本席看到問題就是說當其他世界各國有這樣做的做法中東戰事到底會什麼時候結束 您知道嗎其實我們很難預估啦很難預估嘛 就是會很難預估也因此你現在講即便我們講說安全庫存90天或是說我們跨胸部保證現在150天那150天或90天內中東戰事有可能結束嗎"},{"start":9275.208,"end":9302.995,"text":"其實我們都一直持續在調度所以本席現在才講的重點在於是我們要超前部署防範未來我們都有所以我現在看到其他國家有這樣的一個做法我剛剛跟交通部長陳士凱也講是說要跟經濟部開會兩個禮拜內訂出標準看是我們到什麼時間譬如說我簡單講假設我們安全庫存量只剩50天的時候是不是要開始控管"},{"start":9303.675,"end":9330.413,"text":"就是說那其他飛機來台灣那我們先以我們國籍航空加油為主還是用什麼樣的步驟先把這個遊戲規則定出來而不會造成國內或是國際上面的大家的一個恐慌那也可以這個說一解十嘛是不是這樣子是 跟我們報告其實中東戰事大概已經持續三四個禮拜了一個 將近一個月就一個月嘛對 其實我們的這個油的庫存都沒有減少"},{"start":9331.834,"end":9332.475,"text":"庫存沒有減少?"},{"start":9332.475,"end":9356.885,"text":"都沒有減少就是維持一百就是一百五十天的這樣的一個存量所以表示說我們其實整個有源的調度其實都有陸陸續續一直補充進來所以目前來講我們在調度原有的部分其實是沒有太大問題但你認為是說這樣的調度的狀況可以維持多久?因為我現在國際上其他國家都沒有那我覺得是其他國家來我們台灣來取經"},{"start":9359.423,"end":9380.013,"text":"國際有這樣整席點出一個國際的狀況所以說我才想是說我們預先部署超前衛來那還有韓國他們現在甚至有國內要求公務員不要開車上班或是分流開車上班就是避免韓國國內的油都已經有在做緊縮了那我們有沒有這樣的一個規劃跟打算"},{"start":9380.974,"end":9398.553,"text":"即便你現在講說沒有預留但是是不是能夠先來做規劃本期講是說我們最好不要用到但是你的Plan B Plan C一定要有我們都有其實我們就有三套劇本一個就是這個市場調現貨然後同業調貨市場買現貨同業調貨然後"},{"start":9403.038,"end":9420.079,"text":"當你調不到貨或是買不到現貨的時候你就不用再講這些所以我本席才會講的是說你現在應該因應的是如果有一天有可能調不到貨或買不到現貨的時候要有什麼樣的方案預先做準備公告給國人讓國人比較有個心理預期準備"},{"start":9421.48,"end":9439.811,"text":"剛剛交通部長講是說會找經濟部開會兩個禮拜內提出相關的辦法可以做到嗎是可以主動也跟交通部這邊聯繫兩個禮拜後給本席跟經濟委員會的委員讓國人比較有個清楚明白的方向這樣可以嗎可以可以好 謝謝謝謝委員哇 你跳過時間還比我發言時間還長好 謝謝"},{"start":9445.393,"end":9463.312,"text":"來 下面請李昆城委員剛剛那個三大方案那個三大因應方案要把過去一個月執行的狀況以及未來三個月的執行的目標可能提一個書面資料好 請李昆城委員好 謝謝主席那我們就請何市長請進步 何市長"},{"start":9469.667,"end":9489.518,"text":"市長好 請教一下 這個我們現在 我前兩天去買那一個紅豆餅那紅豆餅他本來都會附一個小的塑膠袋給我那現在他已經沒有一個塑膠袋給我 還有我就自己用這個紙包裝拿著 也OK啦但是我就是要問這個市長 我們現在塑膠袋到底有沒有缺貨的問題"},{"start":9490.538,"end":9507.81,"text":"其實塑膠袋的這個生產的部分其實應該是不會有斷料 短缺的部分原料沒有短缺的問題對 尤其這個像這個最上有的這個乙烯的部分其實中油今天已經增加這個釋清的這個產能那賣場到現在去賣場買這個塑膠袋一定都買得到嗎"},{"start":9514.614,"end":9529.069,"text":"是 我們當然就是說希望能夠讓每一個賣場都能夠有充足的塑膠袋的供應但是我們也呼籲民眾就是不要搶購或是囤積因為這個讓整個市場的機制會錯了那民眾為什麼會有搶購或囤積還是怕說 第一個會漲價第二個他可能會買不到"},{"start":9534.977,"end":9560.043,"text":"可能都是那源頭就在於說如果我們這個供應量充足的話是不是就沒有這些問題對所以我們就是說盡量就是那我們現在的供應量夠不夠能不能化解民眾這個囤積搶購單機漲價的問題跟我們報告我們已經跟這個20家的跟塑膠袋衣材包材的這些生產廠商已經都已經有做一些了解然後"},{"start":9560.883,"end":9573.951,"text":"他們也強調就是說就是配合國內的這個供應的這個生產那他們來做一些市長能夠保證就是我們如果去我今天去賣場買塑膠袋一定都買得到嗎"},{"start":9575.915,"end":9603.096,"text":"當然這個就會有很多的狀況這狀況就如同我當然不是說就一般的這個大賣場的話我們希望他就充足供應我們每天也都有在做一些調查那目前的供應是大賣場的供應是OK的不要像之前有所謂的這一個大家囤積衛生紙這個衛生紙這麼大包也去囤積希望這個因為上次蘇院長就去查所以就是二者這個囤積這個衛生紙"},{"start":9605.017,"end":9620.189,"text":"這次的垃圾那個塑膠袋不要演變成過去大家囤積的那個位置是怎樣好不好是 我們經濟部也在呼籲也不是只有呼籲啊呼籲 而且也希望說大家能夠來配合要去查我們這樣 這個昨天法務部已經也啟動這個稽查的這個動作了"},{"start":9623.311,"end":9648.82,"text":"好 那就請教一下 我們現在這個液化天然氣你說到六月都沒有問題嘛是不是對這有確定嗎目前六月還差一點點啦不過我想應該沒問題我們的現在安全存量還是在12天嗎對 現在法定是11天法規11天 所以我們是有超過這樣的一個那才多一天啊 12天啊那這個 這個安全的期限能夠再延長嗎能夠再增加嗎"},{"start":9649.62,"end":9676.548,"text":"那我們是希望除潮能夠增加因為明年法定存量就14天所以就是一定要達到這樣的一個所以那個除潮 我們那個除潮除潮夠嗎目前是應該就是在有些戰線之中應該是夠的啦最後一個問題 我請教一下就是說我們現在主要是天然氣從卡達澳洲過來嘛 對不對那美國部分有增加嗎還是有增加 美國 澳洲"},{"start":9677.368,"end":9703.931,"text":"這個部分那現在大概比例是多少本來是大概10%現在這樣兩成五左右就美國的部分就對了未來會再增加會再增加在三成以上因為這個液化天然氣很重要因為我們現在的這個發電大部分是用這一個產生液化天然氣你如果沒有充足的這個液化天然氣的話我也很擔心電價會跟著漲不然你就變成燃煤要增加了這個就是未來這個經濟部要注意的部分好 了解謝謝謝謝李坤政府員"},{"start":9706.053,"end":9722.888,"text":"那些跳過的比還沒跳過的講了還久啊來 介關先回座 下一個質疑請預言之三分鐘冠廷你剩下兩分鐘了來 麻煩請次長提出報告 次長"},{"start":9731.286,"end":9755.756,"text":"我上次有問部長就是說因為我們現在是天然氣是在現貨市場去搶大概比原來貴多少他說大概一船是貴11億如果20幾艘的話大概就已經中游大概多虧了200多億都多付出200多億那現在有最新的數據嗎可能有沒有這個張總就是不斷在搶嘛那預計大概要搶幾艘"},{"start":9757.492,"end":9776.054,"text":"呃 就每個月的船期都排好的嘛對那因應這個要經過荷姆斯海峽的船的話呢我們目前就去找替代了所以那個數量都是一定的多少嗎因為我們那個主席控制我們時間控制很緊你可不可以針對問題回答好對 之前是說二十幾艘啦那 那還要再增加嗎"},{"start":9777.109,"end":9802.707,"text":"差不多到6月底就是這個數字到6月底就是這個數字但是如果說暫時拖長的話比如說7月8月的話很可能就繼續延續下去就不只不只多增加200多億可能300多億400多億都可能嘛那上次我問那個部長說那怎麼辦中油怎麼辦那現在他的解決方案是說中油要提出增資計畫那我退回去看一下中油的增資計畫有一個背景是因為中油的負債比很高啦大概92%然後累虧大概800多億"},{"start":9805.448,"end":9818.454,"text":"然後每一年的利息就孵了非常多但是很奇怪的是因為之前中油類似的狀況也有跟經濟部提出政治計畫但是都被打回票打回票的理由是說中油都還有盈餘849億"},{"start":9820.515,"end":9848.415,"text":"那我就不懂啊為什麼之前增資被打回票理由有盈餘現在又忽然間說增資很重要原因是什麼跟委員報告那個是禁止不是盈餘啦是禁止因為畢竟就是說他的這個就是負債比拉高因為經濟部最近才打回票現在忽然間又要大家去支持他增資計畫中間的轉折是什麼"},{"start":9850.515,"end":9878.248,"text":"因為最主要是這一次的這個中東的戰事是因為中東的戰事喔中東的戰事讓他的就是美軍吸收的成本會增加所以主要是中東戰事所以才忽然間經濟部改變立場要去支持他的增資計畫那剛剛講到就是因為中東戰事的關係所以多付出的成本是大概兩百多億嘛兩百多億那我想問那為什麼他增資計畫是三千五百億"},{"start":9879.967,"end":9901.619,"text":"為什麼你如果說是要打消他的累虧800多億再加上現在可能增加了兩三百億那就1000億啊那為什麼中油要增資3500億理由是什麼根文報告齁其實剛委員估算的只是氣的部分氣油的部分還沒有加進來所以油是多少油大概預計會多付出多少成本"},{"start":9902.779,"end":9917.692,"text":"預計大概65億美金65億美金是因為中東戰事的關係所以加起來你覺得是3500億所以3500億就不含別的就純粹是因為中東戰事所衍生出來的成本增加就3500億"},{"start":9921.294,"end":9943.702,"text":"這麼多三千五百億是中友提出的是四年三千五百億那我們會評估到底這三千五百億有沒有需要所以我們現在目前報到行政院的沒有這麼多因為你們現在那時候部長就講說已經提了三千五百億報到行政院是一千一千多億一千七百億一千七百億而已是不是再我問一下再一分鐘就好"},{"start":9943.942,"end":9965.898,"text":"沒有沒有 剛剛大家都可以喔 一個小問題就好一個小問題就是因為大家現在在質疑說中油他油價公式啊以前是七成杜拜三成布蘭特油嘛但是現在其實我們購買的比例美國油是比較多大概六成中東降到四成以下那之前大家在問啊中油是說這公司有否有訂的去問經濟部啊經濟部現在立場怎麼樣"},{"start":9967.279,"end":9986.314,"text":"中友目前也委託一些經濟部的立場給他回答一下經濟部的立場你們希望他能夠調整嗎我們會來做一個檢討什麼時候檢討因為隨時他每一週都在動你不能夠拖到六年馬月區什麼時候會有一個公式公式的調整方案什麼時候"},{"start":9986.914,"end":10013.586,"text":"可能 至少半年啦 半年左右要半年 那這半年這半年的 大家中油多調的部分咧為什麼要半年 因為你每週都在調油價嘛那公司竟然發現有問題 為什麼不立刻調因為這個可能要做一個更深入的一些沒有 我覺得這樣可能大家不太能夠接受啦大家可能不太能接受中油很多的一些成本沒有加進那這可能兩回事嘛 你現在他已經提政治計畫了嘛這一碼歸一碼嘛不要全部的事情都混在一起了謝謝 謝謝好來"},{"start":10022.48,"end":10041.057,"text":"這個因為我當主席啊因為本委員會我都很準時五加一啊但是跳過了還比本席講還久這個這個以後齒力不可開啊以後類似狀況大家要來知情委員會請大家注意時間跳過沒有再回頭了"},{"start":10042.279,"end":10046.501,"text":"現在聽起來是3、4、5月都已經鞏固了6月還在掉那我們現在就不進入細節我就想請教一下那我們現在怎麼樣分散這樣子的風險"},{"start":10071.795,"end":10097.056,"text":"澳洲、美國有沒有開始在講未來如果同樣發生類似這樣子挑戰的時候我們該怎麼做我們現在終於有幾個策略就是市場買現貨然後同業調貨然後就提前取貨那這三個策略我們是交叉在運用當中所以目前來講油原的那個氣體的部分其實我們就從澳洲、美國"},{"start":10098.297,"end":10121.173,"text":"還有一些其他的一些這個非洲的一些國家巴布亞新幾內亞等等這些國家來做調度所以未來我們也會檢討是不是中東的這個氣源的這個比例我們希望能夠降低避免又造成這些戰事這個調度的一些風險市長我們現在這個占比大概多少在中東的"},{"start":10122.199,"end":10137.03,"text":"中東大概三層左右大概三層,所以七層的話以哪一個地方為主?澳洲嗎?我看我們跟澳洲的澳洲三層,美國兩層,三三二,然後其他的地方就是七雲八部,新幾內亞等等之類的我是這樣具體建議,因為我們分血風單看起來中東這樣子的狀況它已經會是長期的風險了"},{"start":10144.355,"end":10170.067,"text":"那長期的風險的話儘管說我們現在要確保的是穩定的供貨也就是說我們不僅僅是說要把這個價格降低我們現在可能要追求的不是降低價格而是穩定確保我們有這樣的天然氣 氣一定要足因為我們接下來所有的你說AI的發展等等的每一項都需要能源那我們與其擔心說這個哪一個價格是最便宜的可能現在要想的是風險喔風險可能要優先於價格"},{"start":10172.088,"end":10194.77,"text":"因為剛才你聽到了332這樣子的這種大概八成左右其中的三成是在中東三成是在澳洲兩成在美國我可能這個調配速度要把它往上再往上走一點美國的部分跟澳洲的部分都要往上走一點然後確保說地緣政治風險的地方我們把它拿掉這個是我覺得是必須講的那謝謝主席那我想今天就答應兩分鐘就兩分鐘好 謝謝"},{"start":10198.038,"end":10202.824,"text":"哎呀 冠廷真是楷模啊謝謝 謝謝這個還有沒有要發言的 沒有了喔"},{"start":10211.994,"end":10234.709,"text":"登議發言委員除不在場之外 期許經營發言完畢 我們訓導結束有委員蔡宇宇 陳金飛 許新穎所提書面諮詢我們列入記錄 刊登公報書面諮詢和未及答覆部分請相關到一週之內以書面答覆並佈置本會委員另要求期限者從期所定本日所定一程處理完畢謝謝大家 大家辛苦了 現在散會"},{"start":10239.978,"end":10251.073,"text":"注意那個七大產業是不是加一個運動產業就是七大你現在有七大嘛對不對七大對七大我們都持續在跟運動部他們都動作不是我們不積極"},{"start":10302.338,"end":10302.419,"text":"谢谢大家"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}