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欢迎订阅我的频道"},{"start":412.796,"end":416.541,"text":"谢谢观看 欢迎订阅"},{"start":478.268,"end":480.842,"text":"由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕"},{"start":673.926,"end":674.582,"text":"by bwd6"},{"start":733.865,"end":747.255,"text":"感谢观看"},{"start":902.171,"end":904.047,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":1243.353,"end":1244.138,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":1317.123,"end":1317.406,"text":"幫我一掌"},{"start":1404.738,"end":1405.578,"text":"請準備報告出席人數"},{"start":1407.307,"end":1434.432,"text":"衝浩委員會出席委員12人已讀 法定人數好 現在開會 進行報告事項請宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第5會級經濟委員會第7次群體委員會議事錄時間115年4月8日星期三9時至12時48分地點紅樓101會議室出席委員邱盈瑩等14人列席委員洪孟凱等18人列席人員經濟部部長龔明星等主席召集委員洪義祥"},{"start":1434.952,"end":1452.7,"text":"報告事項一 宣讀上次會議事錄決定確定二 邀請經濟部部長率台灣電力股份有限公司董事長及台灣中原股份有限公司董事長行政院經貿談判辦公室首長財政部首長行政院主席總署首長就台美關稅協定ART中關於擴大採購及購買原油天然氣發電設備等"},{"start":1456.202,"end":1472.562,"text":"項目之評估規劃及涉及之問題與工作並就台灣縱橫股份有限公司之徵之案進行報告並被質詢經濟部部長龔明欣財政部公務署副署長蘇淑貞及行政院經貿談判辦公室資深談判代表兼執行秘書徐從欣報告後"},{"start":1473.283,"end":1474.183,"text":"好 那我們繼續進行報告事項 請宣讀"},{"start":1500.936,"end":1522.36,"text":"邀請經濟部部長、農業部部長、公平交易委員會代理主任委員衛生福利部首長、法務部首長及行政院消費者保護處首長藉由中東衝突加劇市場不確定性是國內包括乙烯塑膠、化肥、瀝青等石化原物料及物流成本增加、旅船缺料、囤貨現象等之問題評估因應策略與現況進行報告並被質詢宣傳"},{"start":1525.694,"end":1553.111,"text":"好在場委員我先介紹這個機關今天出席的機關首長首先這個經濟部孔明星部長再來產發署署長邱求惠商發署署長蘇文林能源署代理署長吳志偉國際貿易署署長劉威廉台灣中國公司董事長方正仁"},{"start":1554.962,"end":1582.133,"text":"農業部部長陳俊濟農糧署署長姚士遠漁業署副署長林鼎龍公民交易委員會代理主任委員陳志明衛生福利部政務次長林靜儀食品藥物管理署副署長王德源法務部檢察司專委李征會行政院消保處處長鍾瑞蘭"},{"start":1587.607,"end":1614.277,"text":"本日议程排定中东冲突加剧市场不确定性至国内包括乙烯塑胶化肥沥青等石化原物料及物流成本增加旅船缺料囤货现象等之问题评估因应策略与现况进行报告并被质询等一下我们会请经济部郭明新部长报告5分钟农业部陈金居部长报告5分钟"},{"start":1615.36,"end":1633.13,"text":"公平家族委員會陳志明代理主委報告三分鐘衛生福利部林靜儀政務次長報告三分鐘好那現在我們有請這一個工部長幫忙報告召委員"},{"start":1634.059,"end":1660.644,"text":"各位委員 各位女士 各位先生 大家早安那感謝貴委員會邀請經濟部就中東沖突加劇市場不確定性以致國內包括乙烯 塑膠 化肥 瀝青等石化原料以及物流成本增加那麼旅船缺料 囤化現象等問題的評估因應對策跟現況進行專案報告進行各位委員不吝指教那麼收到"},{"start":1664.094,"end":1679.852,"text":"美伊衣衝突的影響,從2月28日開始中東形勢持續升起,赫姆斯海峽的運輸幾近停擺。由於該海峽承載的全球近五分之一的石油運量,各國增強現貨原油,導致國際油價連日上漲。"},{"start":1684.777,"end":1700.486,"text":"4月8日美伊達成了暫時停火共識伊朗同意在未來的兩週內安全開放赫姆斯海峽對國內而言中油有一艘在波斯灣裝載的200萬桶原油的郵輪有望在這個時間裡面返台將有效紓解國內煉油廠的儲備壓力穩定短期的油價走勢"},{"start":1712.864,"end":1730.796,"text":"但是即便局勢已有緩解國際石化乙烯原料價格上漲直接也會影響到國內塑化產業供應鏈的供需平衡造成上游原物料的上漲引發下游製品短缺的餘力"},{"start":1733.587,"end":1760.496,"text":"本部已經針對上述的現象對於生產跟通路端提出了五大強化的措施首先第一個是在上游業者擴大生產的部分本部已經協調中游市卿提前在4月1號投入運作預計4月份會增加乙烯的產量1.9萬噸所以可以從原來的6萬噸增加到7.9萬噸"},{"start":1762.182,"end":1765.229,"text":"那五月份還可以增加到整體到九萬噸"},{"start":1768.072,"end":1792.43,"text":"那第二個就是說上游的原料因為中游已經增加供料另外我們也會將剛剛提到的增加的1.9萬噸裡面潑出5500噸來讓台塑跟台聚來生產聚乙烯這個聚乙烯它主要是用在塑膠的原料的使用"},{"start":1793.451,"end":1811.503,"text":"所以塑膠原料的部分就可以從原來3月份的2.2萬噸增加到4月份的2.7萬噸所以增加了0.55萬噸可以來擴大供應第二個就是有關於下游業者的擴大生產剛剛提到的那個5500噸裡面我們會撥出5000噸來作為這個評價的專案來供應給台塑跟台聚"},{"start":1820.948,"end":1845.234,"text":"來平價供應給那我們會每一盒其中的塑膠的製造商有20家每一盒可以製造出相對平價的塑膠袋這個專案可以提供大概增加12.5億個一斤裝的塑膠袋的產量那我們可以快速提供給商圈跟其他的市場端"},{"start":1846.494,"end":1870.413,"text":"那台塑的這個專案基本上明天台塑就可以出貨了所以速度還蠻快的那第二是有關於力清的部分那力清主要的生產商是中油跟中塑那目前整個存貨的大概是4.2萬噸所以以每個月供應大概1.5萬噸來估計的話那我們可以供應到五月底"},{"start":1871.742,"end":1893.509,"text":"此外台塑化基本上6月也會進口柏油機的原油也可以增加力清的產量第三個是有關於通路的穩定的部分本部已經協調小北跟振宇五金零售的通路單全力來供應塑膠袋如果有缺的話本部將協調塑膠袋的製造廠商來供應滾動檢討整個供需的狀況"},{"start":1898.294,"end":1925.193,"text":"那第二個事實上本部也透過了這個商圈的組織跟市場的自治會向店家跟攤商說明目前我們的這個相應措施請大家寬心那第三個事實上本部也關懷了大概10330處的市場並盤點了350處的商圈的這個需求那緊急需要的時候我們都可以來做一些媒合"},{"start":1926.823,"end":1951.591,"text":"那第四項就是說我們在7月4號的時候呢也召開了關懷商圈塑膠製造品現況那等等的一些情況大概來了全台灣30處的這個商圈代表那當時反應比較有明顯不足的是不是嘉義地區不過這個昨天已經解決了這個部分那也感謝地方政府跟這個通路商已經解決了"},{"start":1952.751,"end":1958.94,"text":"那第五個就是說我們今天會持續用市場跟業勢的關懷做來進一步了解情況"},{"start":1960.399,"end":1984.777,"text":"第四大障礙就是我們設置原物料的通報網主要是透過跨部會的平台包括食藥署、商業署還有園館及七大工商的工協會來了解如果有缺料的話我們馬上來進行調度跟協助第二個我們也設置了專線來媒合石化原料的供應服務"},{"start":1986.092,"end":1990.741,"text":"那截至4月8日為止大概已經媒合了61件那持續的在進行當中"},{"start":1992.423,"end":2016.284,"text":"那第五項就是強力的查查不法那本部已經串聯各地方政府的穩定估價小組來查房那第二個也配合跨部會的物價聯合稽查小組來去運作那主要是法務部跟公平會來跟我們合作最後就是說本部始終秉持著供貨充足物價穩定的目標"},{"start":2017.225,"end":2043.705,"text":"透过中油试金提前开入以缓解供应压力更严防囤积烘台优先保证中小企业跟摊商的生计本部也持续会追踪国际形势的变化并适时滚动检讨应用措施中央跟地方携手合作共同解决缺料的问题以上报告敬请各位委员指教好 谢谢龚部长接下来有请农业部陈部长报告"},{"start":2050.084,"end":2072.32,"text":"主席 各位委員 各位女士 各位先生 大家早今天非常高興奉邀大院第十一屆第五會期經濟委員會會議來報告有關於中東衝突加劇市場不確定性導致國內包括乙烯塑膠化肥瀝青等石化原料及物流成本增加屢屢缺料 囤貨現象之問題評估"},{"start":2074.915,"end":2081.192,"text":"因應對策與現況以下僅就本部長管的部分進行做報告"},{"start":2082.912,"end":2101.426,"text":"根據國際主要的肥料的一個最新的資料那目前主要的肥料用肥包括氮磷鉀的部分氮肥的部分大概上漲了54.3%那另外液氨的部分上漲了21.5%那在鉀肥部分上漲了2.7%相對平穩那磷肥的部分也上漲了0.9%也相對平穩"},{"start":2108.371,"end":2133.001,"text":"那這些肥料其實我們國內所需要的一個肥料那都來自於不同的國家那例如像蛋肥我們的原料的來源有包括印尼、馬來西亞、澳洲、文萊、沙烏地、阿拉伯及中國大陸等那磷肥主要來自約旦、摩洛哥、澳洲、中國大陸、越南、菲律賓、甲肥主要是來自於俄羅斯跟加拿大"},{"start":2135.871,"end":2154.83,"text":"臺灣的肥料的供應系統裡面,其中臺肥公司供應的大概將近八成左右。臺肥的一些製造肥料的來源,大概都可以由兩到三個國家來進口。它的庫存在一般的情況之下都能夠庫存三到六個月。"},{"start":2156.391,"end":2173.945,"text":"目前因為因應中東的一個局勢那本部已督請就是台北公司持續的一個盤點原料的進口那現在的原料大概可以供應8月到12月都確保我們整個肥料的供應是不會有問題的"},{"start":2175.066,"end":2189.264,"text":"那同時本部為了平穩我們國內的一個供肥的一個需求來降低我們農民生產的一個負擔那事實上我們在111年1月開始當時的COVID-19造成了一些國際的這些航運"},{"start":2192.768,"end":2215.703,"text":"錯亂延誤抵達的情況之下我們已經啟動了肥料凍脹的一個補助的一個措施然後同時我們滾動檢討國際的原物料來調整我們的一個補助的一個情形那目前我們一到三月的原來的補助是肥料裡面大概因為肥料有不同的代年甲的一個比例我們補助了六項的一個肥料那"},{"start":2216.503,"end":2243.519,"text":"中東衝突爆發以來然後我們更同時每一週嚴密監控國際肥料的一個原物料然後持續推動我們的肥料的一個動漲的一個政策然後並適時將化學肥料的一個漲幅補助的肥料的品項來及時來提供這樣的一個補助那相關的一個補助大概是由政府跟台肥來共同來吸收來穩定整個肥料供應及價格的一個穩定"},{"start":2246.277,"end":2271.766,"text":"另外一個部分是目前我們農業部為了確保整個肥料的銷售的體系能夠充滿足我們農民的使用那我們農業部已經建置了所謂的肥料的實名制的一個登錄系統換句話說農民在購買肥料的時候他都必須做相關的登記那也因為有這樣的一個登記我們能夠百分之百掌握"},{"start":2272.606,"end":2289.636,"text":"它的肥料的需求跟肥料的各地方肥料的這些供需的一個情況然後透過這樣的一個肥料的實名制的一個措施可以很精準的來供應我們農友的一個用肥同時建立肥料合理的一個調配的一個機制"},{"start":2291.165,"end":2319.248,"text":"來保障我們農民的一個權益那同時我們也針對這些肥料我們也持續的去了解這些各個農會或是商系的這些肥料是不是有有不正常的一個囤積的一個配銷的一個動作那如果查到有相關的一個囤積的時候導致市面上缺肥或缺料的或聯合的行為的時候我想我們將會議請公民會交易主管貿易"},{"start":2319.768,"end":2340.995,"text":"主管的一個機關及檢察官來依法來追究那除了肥料以外其實還有一個大家所關心的就是塑膠的農業用塑膠的一個包材那這個包材雖然說有些上漲但是他換算成產品的價格的部分的時候大概只佔了整個產品售價的0.02到0.5相對的他的佔比並不高同時我們也啟動了相關的一個對談跟座談來跟針對主要的"},{"start":2349.437,"end":2366.768,"text":"糧商合作社長跟集團產區及農會來說明就是我們會確保量的一個穩定的一個供應那有需要的話我們會透過經濟部的一個協調平台那相關的這些作為我想我們農業部會持續努力來確保我們肥料的一個供應的穩定以上報告謝謝這個陳部長"},{"start":2372.725,"end":2387.044,"text":"那因為在場委員人數已經超過三人請問各位同仁上次會議事錄有無錯誤無錯誤議事錄確定接下來我們請這個公平交易委員會陳志明代理主任委員報告"},{"start":2396.554,"end":2412.648,"text":"主席 各位委員 各位在場的女士先生 大家早今天很榮幸也很高興代表公平會來經濟委員會針對目前國內乙烯塑膠化肥 瀝青等石化原物料傳出缺貨跟囤積現象的因應策略進行專案報告"},{"start":2414.062,"end":2428.001,"text":"由於中東戰勢持續的升溫導致國內相關石化產品的價格上漲或出現有缺貨的情勢那業者為了反映這個營業成本或原料供應的不穩定而調整商品的價格或供貨導致市場上出現的波動"},{"start":2429.082,"end":2445.751,"text":"本會已經積極的查處事業是否有合意進行聯合行為倘若以石化原料缺貨為由然後以契約協議或其他的方式的合意來共同決定商品或服務的價格或者操縱市場本會若掌握事政一定會予以嚴懲"},{"start":2446.852,"end":2470.493,"text":"那另外藉由調查聯合行為的過程當中我們有提醒業者即使業者在針對這個產品原物料價格的上漲也必須同時注意到不要違反了公平交易法關於聯合行為的這個相關的規定那間接的嚇阻業者進行市場價格操縱的一個行為那針對本次雨晴所關切的塑膠袋價格跟供貨的狀況那本會已經主動立案調查"},{"start":2471.073,"end":2492.947,"text":"除了實地訪查市場了解塑膠袋的供應的現況我們也向上游來溯源製造業以及批發商的一個來釐清這個相關的供需狀況同時我們也跟經濟部地方機關保持聯繫參與跨部會的物價聯合稽查小組的行動並密切關注其他塑膠製品有沒有其他的異常"},{"start":2494.609,"end":2516.29,"text":"漲價或缺貨的現象那我們會本於公平教育法主管機關的職責積極的來查處涉有違反公平教育法聯合行為的案件那如果有違法的事證我們一定會進行調查跟處分那以上報告進行執政好謝謝陳代理主委接下來的話請這個衛生福利部林靜儀測試報告"},{"start":2522.73,"end":2541.981,"text":"主席各位委員女士先生今天大院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會召開全體委員會議本部呈邀列席報告深感榮幸自舊中東衝突加劇市場不確定性質國內包括以吸塑膠化肥瀝青等石化原物料及物流成本增加旅船缺料"},{"start":2542.701,"end":2571.661,"text":"囤货现象问题评估因应策略与现况提出专案报告进行各位委员不吝指教首先在国际情势方面受中东冲突及全球供应链不稳影响能源及石化原料价格波动供应不确定性提高以对我国医疗体系造成压力为确保医疗运作无虞本部已采取三项措施第一本部食药署已建立单一通报专区主动盘点所需原物料监测药品医材供应情况"},{"start":2572.401,"end":2589.149,"text":"第二本部強化與經濟部跨部會協作以協調石化大廠塑化原料優先供應國人醫療所需並積極協助塑化原料來源不穩業者媒合取得原物料第三行政院潤性特別條例已編列兩千億"},{"start":2590.49,"end":2606.725,"text":"原健保基金安全准备金并启动价量调整机制协助稳定市场同时若发现市场端有成本哄抬之违法情形将依请法务部查办以维护市场秩序纵上面对国际原物料供应不确定性"},{"start":2607.045,"end":2624.045,"text":"本部将持续以医疗安全优先为原则,强化医药品供应链的韧性,确保我国医疗体系的稳定运作。以上报告,进行指教。本部呈大院各委员之指教及监督,在此静置谢诚并其各位委员继续予以支持。"},{"start":2628.735,"end":2657.888,"text":"那有关本次会议各部会所提的书面报告请委员自行参阅并刊登公报那现在进行询答委员咨询前原例作以下宣告一每位委员发言的时间本会委员六分钟必要时得延长两分钟非本会委员四分钟第二上午十点零分截止发言登记首先呢我们请登记第一位的陈廷飞委员咨询"},{"start":2668.593,"end":2670.195,"text":"謝謝昭偉 我們是請部長經濟部長還有農業部長農業部陳部長"},{"start":2683.155,"end":2710.475,"text":"謝謝兩位部長辛苦了這一段時間因為中東的衝突造成了一些我們整個國際情勢的改變還有台南在台灣整個所謂的民生物料農業物料的一些需求的變動所以我想了解一下這之前我也跟部長討論過除了我們塑膠其實吸管水管日用品這等等說真的還有一些工業用品"},{"start":2711.415,"end":2724.569,"text":"我想工業用品也是影響很大他們的需求度包括工業產品的包材高科技製程的原料石化基礎的原料紡織機械鋼鐵等等這些我們怎麼辦部長"},{"start":2726.992,"end":2756.112,"text":"高委員因為我們現在有成立了當然現在傳出來的主要是塑膠袋那現在我們成立了這個跨部會的平台只要它主管的部會的塑膠用品製成的用品如果有缺的話馬上反映給我們有塑膠原料的部分對塑膠原料所製成的製品那如果有需要趕快反映給我們所以你們現在所了解的全部幾乎都是它的關鍵點是因為塑膠原料"},{"start":2757.532,"end":2778.464,"text":"這個所突發的一個狀況是不是包括有些工業啊因為我們當時候也請產發署協助啊有一些我們工業的一些企業他們在第一時間沒有辦法得到他們所需要的一些相關的原物料所以我們也做了一些媒合包括"},{"start":2779.504,"end":2802.759,"text":"您提到的塑膠原料之外還有甲醇還有溶劑還有衣材的部分還有塑膠製品的部分那只要讓我們知道我們馬上透過每一個所以不只是塑膠嘛其實工業的部分我這邊就得到很多訊息所以我也必須說也謝謝我們第一時間跟產發署來做對口的時候產發署都有協助可是畢竟這是開端而已"},{"start":2803.539,"end":2825.609,"text":"中東衝突會發生到什麼時候不知道我們希望趕快一段落可是這不是我們能夠控制的好那在這個前提之下這個平台我們應該讓所有的工業產業甚至小吃業還有商圈都知道當他們有遇到困難的時候我要尋求誰的幫助"},{"start":2828.11,"end":2844.99,"text":"這是很重要你這個平台不是只有建立在你們自己知道的平台是你要給大家知道我們所有的工業區知道我們所有相關的產業知道商圈知道小吃業知道還有市場知道"},{"start":2846.091,"end":2864.044,"text":"這才是重點啊因為他不是只有塑膠而已他現在所研發的其實已經慢慢的有不同的一些聲音跟狀態所以我要拜託部長你們我昨天大概我們有對話過就是說"},{"start":2867.165,"end":2887.553,"text":"在整個民生部分的部分 我們經濟部希望在一個禮拜能夠把這樣的問題把它穩定下來好 那我順便請我們代理主委 那個公平會代理主委這一時我在講的 我們的主委我不知道您幫了什麼忙"},{"start":2888.956,"end":2909.189,"text":"你們有幫了什麼嗎?公民會有幫了什麼嗎?我目前就是針對塑膠這一塊我們是跨部會的聯機小組的成員配合法務部你們只是成員之一沒有 我們自己本身也有立案調查針對塑膠有立案調查立了幾個案我目前查過的總共包含聯機在內有17個廠商我們去看過了結果呢?結果就是當然因為戰爭的影響"},{"start":2911.004,"end":2935.839,"text":"有物料成本增加 所以價格有波動 那供貨不確定但是我們的重點在聯合行為 我想委員知道那聯合行為的部分 目前我們看起來是沒有所謂的聯合拒絕出貨你上次我就實行過你們在重點聯合行為現在的廠商不會那麼笨知道你工評會會以聯合行為來查他們他還會用聯合行為在那邊等你來查嗎不會嘛"},{"start":2937.037,"end":2963.063,"text":"所以不要再講聯合行業事目前我們所需要的是幫消費者穩定他內心的恐慌跟不確定性你們的責任在這裡我跟委員報告一下我們必須在我們的職場範圍內去做這件事情所以我們可不可以直接介入個別廠商的價格調整這個可能在職場上來講可能有一點限制我希望公平會不要再"},{"start":2963.843,"end":2988.095,"text":"很高空的說我們是針對聯合行為現在不會有聯合行為這麼短的時間還會有聯合行為他我就跟你講他只要晚個兩天三天出貨價格就跳動了啦不用聯合行為啦但是我們的調查可以產生嚇阻啦我覺得還是可以產生對防疫的影響好啦希望啦其實我對你沒有很大的信心啦我只能說希望來我們的農業部"},{"start":2990.56,"end":3006.439,"text":"那個部長我們現在大概就是農業產品的包材肥料還有米價的問題啦齁那這個部分我們有掌控到第一手的消息嗎我第一個部分齁我跟委員報告肥料我們持續凍脹"},{"start":3007.694,"end":3022.654,"text":"那凍脹是由政府跟台肥吸收價差的一個問題然後更重要的是我們要確保量的滿足農民的需求那我們現在也要求台肥然後他現在的所有的各項肥料蛋肥的部分"},{"start":3022.834,"end":3047.348,"text":"可以至少到8月現在也增加定了會目標是到12月零肥甲肥是都可以到12月的部分這第一個部分第二個部分是有關於在肥料的實名制的過程中我們可以很精準的了解各地的一個配送農會的配送所以我們現在也啟動就是實名制的後台可以讓台肥看到他可以知道哪邊缺肥我送哪邊"},{"start":3048.129,"end":3056.058,"text":"這樣的調度就不會造成在COVID-19111年的時候的缺肥的一個情況所以你們有掌控到所謂的包材的問題肥料的問題那米價呢"},{"start":3059.663,"end":3079.247,"text":"我跟委員報告2公斤的米的包裝帶是5塊錢它漲了15%到20%是漲了0.75元但是如果換算成換算成米價一包米200多塊它增加了0.75元它實際上增加的那個百分比非常低而且我們也跟糧商也經過座談討論他們也承諾它不會漲價"},{"start":3083.61,"end":3098.147,"text":"這個很重要大家共體時艱因為我們也知道說大家不願意看到這個國際情勢這樣的一個所謂戰爭的變動而造成大家的消費壓力所以我們希望我們能夠共撐"},{"start":3099.548,"end":3112.533,"text":"共過這樣的一個困難點才是我們現在大家政府應該共同跟我們民眾彼此有一個信心最重要的關鍵那我要再問我們經濟部長我們農業部長可以休息"},{"start":3116.874,"end":3133.335,"text":"基本上我們有去了解到整個營建等等我們這一次的工程的部分像我昨天跟你談的就是說這些所謂相關周邊的產品我們還有了解到有些有受到這一波的影響"},{"start":3134.502,"end":3154.923,"text":"工程主要是瀝青主要現在傳出來的是瀝青瀝青就是說我們現在存貨大概可以供應到五月底沒有問題現在台塑也在六月份他們有積極的在進口一些就是他的這個可以製造瀝青的這些原料進來"},{"start":3156.192,"end":3180.034,"text":"我為什麼會問部長部長我覺得你們要請你們同仁辛苦一點然後去做盤整因為本來大家認為不會拖那麼久可是確實這個中東已經好像一發不可收拾如果在這個前提之下所引發的問題可能會更大所以你們要事先做盤整做預先的預防我覺得這人民才能安心好 謝謝"},{"start":3181.837,"end":3198.704,"text":"好 謝謝陳廷輝委員接下來我們有請賴慧榮委員質詢好 謝謝昭緯 請拱部長還有我們公民會陳代理主委跟法務部的李專委法務部"},{"start":3200.117,"end":3224.637,"text":"部長我先請教一個問題昨天有委員關心到這個南子鹽區台積電的水電準備好了嘛那我記得在去年的4月25號我諮詢過郭志偉部長其實水更電P6廠都已經準備好了也都沒有問題事實上國際大廠的投資也一定準備好才敢投資沒有準備好沒有人敢投資的那經過了一年有變化嗎水電有變化嗎"},{"start":3227.356,"end":3245.59,"text":"應該是OK的啦都沒有問題嗎如果有問題他們會跟我講對啊 水電應該主要都是在經濟部轄下負責問你最清楚了嘛水電是沒有問題的啦那因為去年11月25半年前我們也做過考察一樣沒有問題啦所以我想這個要再次確認因為這樣會引起大家很大的一個擔憂啦我想這個是沒有問題的"},{"start":3246.471,"end":3267.403,"text":"那再來我再問一下最近的水情大家也高度關心這個清明年假的時候有高頻息的流量有大幅的增加了從7.5cm增加到19.1cm所以水情目前看起來應該相對是穩定吧對因為這一波的風面還算雨情還算是OK啦但是我們還是要觀察這個訊息比較"},{"start":3269.344,"end":3295.836,"text":"還是要持續觀察 謹慎小心因為接下來枯水期還沒有結束那也希望後面的持續性有一個穩定性的降雨然後給中南部的水情能更加穩定好 這個請部長再持續的關注好 那接下來回到今天的這個主題部分我還是想請教一下部長其實我們已經有增加了生產的量不管是中油跟台塑化中油增加的整個量到5月份會到9萬噸"},{"start":3297.677,"end":3314.328,"text":"台塑化的部分兩個廠裡面其實供應內需的廠這個也沒有問題所以整個原料增加的狀況下那還是有命名到了一些漲價的一些問題現在缺貨以外是另外一個是漲價的問題這個漲價問題部長怎麼來協助解決因為我們這個這邊提到的這個原來是2.2萬噸現在增加的是5500噸那這個5000噸裡面我們會提供一個平價的"},{"start":3327.897,"end":3350.743,"text":"那這個平價的部分呢按照這個台塑給我們的資料他明天就可以開始出貨所以這一批貨然後到這個製造端就是塑膠袋的製造端所以部長在抑制這個漲價這個部分經濟部這邊跟各部會之間會全力來協助嗎是是是現在看來有的會甚至增加了0.5%就是50%漲價50%這個部分"},{"start":3354.924,"end":3374.794,"text":"部裡面跟各部會會全力來穩住這樣的一個漲價的狀況我前兩天跟這個商圈座談當然有一部分是有漲價就像您講的大概漲30%左右但是事實上也有很好的這個通路商他們跟這些攤商講就是說他絕對不漲價"},{"start":3375.894,"end":3404.622,"text":"我希望部裡面要全力的讓這些部分都穩定下來好不好因為攤商都是在第一線的那這個部分如果有漲價就會造成大家心裡的波動缺貨絕對不能夠發生而漲價這部分也要有效的去遏止我問一下公民會主委好嗎在漲價這件事情跟缺貨囤貨這件事情上面公民會的作為各位我們報告一下我想公民會是針對有沒有聯合拒絕出貨聯合漲價的行為那目前看起來是沒有這樣的行為但是我們的確觀察到價格有上漲"},{"start":3405.362,"end":3422.834,"text":"然後供貨有一點我希望公平會更積極的去查處啦齁就是你們有查處的時候才會讓不肖的一些業者我相信這是極少數的不肖業者但是如果有這樣的狀況如果沒有積極的去嚇阻的話有可能會擴散開來所以我們有配合聯合技衛小組我們自己本身也有立案調查所以目前已經調查了17家廠商現在幾家廠商17家廠商我們已經查過了"},{"start":3425.356,"end":3447.576,"text":"那接下來呢接下來還是因為這兩週的時間會稍微那個但是這也是一個關鍵的時刻啦因為雖然停火了兩個禮拜的時間但這個時間點也是我們要穩定住整個所有狀況的一個最好的時間點是那主委這邊這兩個禮拜還會持續的會加大動作啦我會繼續好那接下來是不是請法務部我會請教一下好不好最近有沒有相關的查查的一些方案"},{"start":3450.359,"end":3465.788,"text":"最近都是由法務部召集這個聯合稽查小組在做稽查的動作那調查局也會出動他們的同仁去集合場上那目前查查的狀況怎麼樣目前查起來應該是還算正常"},{"start":3468.013,"end":3489.954,"text":"我們希望這一塊包括各部會啦經濟部公平會法務部要大家聯合來合作讓整個一方面這個不要有這些異常的一些漲價的行為那一方面也要讓整個供貨來穩定我是不是再回到部長好不好部長可不可以再跟大家確認接下來的所有的這些不會有所謂的斷貨或缺貨這樣的狀況的發生"},{"start":3491.945,"end":3514.89,"text":"對就是剛剛委員報告就是我們從料源開始就增加了那明天台塑就可以開始出貨而且這一批是平價的貨那我們盡快的可以到生產端所以這樣來看來更沒有更沒有缺貨或斷貨這樣的可能性從量來講的話是絕對不會那所以請經濟部要全力的去協助不能夠讓油比較如果"},{"start":3515.75,"end":3537.289,"text":"說比較偏遠或是什麼樣,臨時調不到,跟我們講這請基督主動去協助他們好不好其實偏遠你也知道哪些地方是比較偏遠比較會有一些問題的主動跟他們聯繫協助他們不要讓他們遭遇到這樣的困難讓民間很清楚知道政府是有作為在有做事在協助整件事情不要讓塑膠袋這樣的問題去蔓延出去"},{"start":3538.25,"end":3558.352,"text":"好的好謝謝那因為像龍華市場跟寧夏市場有提到這些部分然後我也希望這樣的狀況是寧夏市場他們是減塑的他們就是希望減塑長久以來都這樣所以座談的時候他們希望就是說不要用塑膠袋他們過去以來都是這樣"},{"start":3558.772,"end":3580.229,"text":"減塑當然是一個好的方向啦但是在這樣的狀況下的時候還是要持續啦像現在全台灣涉及的這個攤販的一萬多家裡面光高雄就有1916家佔了很高的比例那很多的一些熱食或等等大家慣性才會去使用啦所以當然我們鼓勵減塑但是這個是一個自發性的行為但是"},{"start":3580.629,"end":3595.864,"text":"我覺得在於便利性跟在於地方的攤商的使用性上面不要因為這樣而引起一些不必要的民怨我覺得這件事情還是要去能夠經濟部跟各部要穩健的一些作為啦是是是好 好 謝謝那再來我是不是請一下農業部好嗎"},{"start":3599.773,"end":3624.834,"text":"我晚上肯定農業部陳部長跟所有同仁的努力我們的防疫作為讓我們重回了三大這個病株的非疫區那這個部分其實也是一個很不容易又再恢復回來的我們也希望後續上面持續要穩健的守住那除了這個之外我們也希望把台灣豬這樣的品牌持續推向國際讓更多人知道主委這件事情上有沒有什麼樣的作為跟看法"},{"start":3625.374,"end":3644.254,"text":"我想第一個部分就是這次能夠非常快地重回我們的WHO所認定的一個非疫區最主要是我們當初大家一起努力用高強度的靜音靜載然後儘速的清零讓這個病人所在一個案例場那後續大概一個半月就通過了"},{"start":3644.994,"end":3666.905,"text":"這個對於農業部的作為我必須給予肯定所以後續我想我們持續邊境的管制後市場的稽查跟養豬場的生物安全這三個面向我們會持續的去努力那更重要的是外銷我們要讓我們的豬肉重返外銷市場所以我們現在也在跟主要的外銷的這些廠商聯絡別拿幾個是我們現在主要想要去珍惜的外銷市場"},{"start":3667.785,"end":3692.498,"text":"菲律賓現在是過往我們之前已經好不容易打通的生鮮豬肉可以外銷的部分所以這個部分我想會努力還有一個新加坡的部分也是我們在努力的部分那日本的部分因為我們本來幾乎快談成了就是可以生鮮外銷後來因為又有非洲豬的問題那現在我們會從儘速的再去跟日本市場去做爭取但是日本的加工的豬肉是沒問題的對"},{"start":3693.639,"end":3710.715,"text":"所以我們也希望日本這一塊啦剛剛幾個國家的部分我們也希望盡快的打通這樣的一個通路讓台灣豬更加的行銷到其他的國家去對 我們會來努力那另外最後一個我請教一下有一些講法對美談判裡面有所謂的滅龍這樣的說法主委 這個實施什麼我覺得"},{"start":3712.455,"end":3730.788,"text":"外界這種滅龍我覺得是一個不負責任的說法因為SSG的免徵其實它只針對美國它整個制度還是在的然後我們在這樣子的一個進口的一個設計的保護的過程中第一關就是進口產品一定要低於其他的競爭對手國"},{"start":3731.869,"end":3751.145,"text":"他如果沒有低於其他競爭對手國他也沒辦法進來很順暢然後另外我們有TRQ的保護那TRQ的保護的過程中就還是有一些關稅的一個阻擋的部分所以我想我們有很好的一個作為那萬一有什麼樣子需要去協助的部分我們有農安基金來協助"},{"start":3751.906,"end":3780.654,"text":"部長這未來可能會越來越多這樣的說法我希望農業部要立即的澄清跟說明讓大家知道我們在保護我們的農業在保護我們的農民上面的作為是很積極的是好謝謝部長好謝謝好謝謝各位農委員接下來的話我們有請這個邱益穎委員質詢好謝謝主席我先請一下工部長工部長謝謝"},{"start":3786.716,"end":3814.447,"text":"邱委員早安部長 針對今天主席排定的專案報告的議題有一個問題特別請教就剛剛幾位委員問到的看起來塑膠袋其實是供應無虞嘛是不是這樣這是從量來講從量來講是供應無虞但是您昨天有沒有看到一個新聞有一個國內很大的這個便利應該是販賣通路商我就直接講家樂福他昨天有一個限塑令每一個人限購限量"},{"start":3814.867,"end":3823.568,"text":"那政府一方面告訴大家這個塑膠袋的量供應無餘那一方面大型的通路商又告訴大家要限購那到底是怎麼樣"},{"start":3826.927,"end":3846.344,"text":"是不是這邊我跟委員說明一下因為我們大概每天都有在調查這個大型通路上的供貨狀況家樂福那邊他是說最近購買的狀況有比較踴躍那也有一點搶購的狀況所以他有限購但是他目前的存貨是足夠的這是家樂福回覆我們的"},{"start":3847.648,"end":3868.925,"text":"所以不會不是因為供應量不夠所以怕大家一窩蜂的去搶購所以才開始限購我覺得政府在這一方面其實還是應該要廣大的宣傳包括這個塑膠袋其實我們過去幾年一直在提倡減塑的這樣的一個政策"},{"start":3870.646,"end":3892.054,"text":"趁著這一波其實我覺得讓大家在這個環保的意識上面多用環保帶這件事情其實也是應該可以加強的去推廣那請大家不要囤積甚至包括廠商或是消費者不要去囤積塑膠袋這個其實是一個很重要的觀念是不是也能夠趁這個機會來做一些這樣的一個機會教育或者是機會宣導"},{"start":3896.556,"end":3916.205,"text":"是 謝委員提醒前天我們跟商圈的座談會理事長事實上他們觀念上也一直這樣提倡所以就是說他們是想就是說政府在這方面有沒有一些專案可以獎勵或是什麼樣那我也請署長說想一個辦法我們成立一個專案就是針對"},{"start":3917.385,"end":3942.662,"text":"檢做這件事情我們怎麼樣鼓勵讓這些商圈的這些攤商發揮一下創意吧部長過去這個大家在搶購衛生紙的時候我記得蘇院長蘇貞昌院長當時有一個很夯的口號叫做每一個人自己有一個卡車所以你不需要去搶購衛生紙那現在大家在搶購塑膠袋你們發揮一下創意吧好不好好來那個公務長請回我接下來請農業部"},{"start":3948,"end":3972.197,"text":"來陳部長我想恭喜台灣我們重回亞洲唯一的三大豬並非異區非異國這對台灣的養豬產業來說是一個絕大的好消息但是我想請教就是說台灣的養豬產業年產值大概有1000億重回非異國之後接下來包括我們經歷過那一個"},{"start":3975.339,"end":3999.102,"text":"非洲豬瘟入侵的這樣的一個恐怖警戒回到非裔國未來我們在防疫的措施上面有沒有更精進包括地方跟中央的整個通報機制是不是有能夠有更精進的作為來 部長請說我想謝謝委員那我們很高興回到非裔區但是回到非裔區"},{"start":3999.862,"end":4028.302,"text":"代表我們更需要去針對我們國內的這些防衛的部分那從這一次的非洲豬瘟的一個應變的過程中我們了解到中央跟地方其實過去的連結特別是在針對整個豬場本身的生物安全防護的這些稽查並不落實所以我們透過這一次的一個經驗我們重新針對場域的部分的生物安全的一個稽查有做了更好的一個落實包括"},{"start":4028.982,"end":4048.137,"text":"人員進出那個續舍的時候都要用QR Code掃描能夠知道哪一些人進去那第二個部分是在後市場的集合就是說應該講邊境的把關我們持續會去落實而且會去加強那另外第二關就是後市場的稽查那後市場稽查我們經常跟衛務部"},{"start":4048.937,"end":4071.232,"text":"去訪查高風險的這些商店那這些商店是不是有來源不明的這些肉品然後再來就是我們場域的所以三道防線我們會跟進進部長我幾個提醒第一個當然在分工上面或者是說您剛剛講的稽查上面我覺得這個還是要持續這個鎖緊螺絲包括在機場的第一線的這個把關上第二豬場的包括四組農場的場主的這個教育"},{"start":4080.338,"end":4104.686,"text":"這個教育的部分是不是能夠再持續加強包括他們的衛生環境我們過去一直在講養豬場的這個養殖環境的衛生安全的提升這個部分農業部應該還是有持續更精進的作為包括不管是補助也好或者是給他們更多的這些協助上我想這個部分農業部應該還是要持續的來做精進我覺得在第一線"},{"start":4105.666,"end":4133.842,"text":"的養豬場他如何做好清消您剛講都是集合的部分嘛但是在養豬場的場主如何在第一線做好清消甚至面對到豬隻有可能產生不明的病因的這一些疾病狀況發生的時候我們的獸醫師如何在第一時間介入關心調查甚至診斷我想這個教育上面是不是農業部還要再有更多的這一些"},{"start":4134.982,"end":4155.827,"text":"強化的作為我想非常謝謝委員的提醒喔特別提到就是說養豬場的衛生的一個提升那我們在第二期的養豬任性的裡面就有相關的經費去落實然後委員一直關心的就是獸醫師本身怎麼樣第一時間連結豬場那這個部分我想我們也正在啟動所有的獸醫師本身的一個防衛網"},{"start":4156.747,"end":4172.585,"text":"那這個獸醫師可能有些是特別獸醫師有些是兼職獸醫師但是我們都把他登錄以後就可以讓他更有系統的去協助這個部長我想要特別強調獸醫的管理應該都是在衛福部所以這個部分我想是農業部對不起農業部"},{"start":4175.267,"end":4202.464,"text":"難怪剛剛衛福部次長一直在看我在農業部所以我希望這個部分其實農業部應該要加強在獸醫師的我們不要講管理啦我想對於加強獸醫師在這一方面應該給予他們有充分的授權跟充分的這一些知識啦這個部分我想這個請農業部來協助接下來要請教這個SSG的部分部長當然這個"},{"start":4204.465,"end":4224.07,"text":"台灣對美國排除了SSG的機制對市場的影響現在還沒看出來我在擔心農業部會不會過度樂觀因為當時設立SSG其實就是為了維持關稅機制以免大量進口那我們現在當然是只有對美國"},{"start":4225.69,"end":4235.6,"text":"採取免徵那您剛剛講說包括肌肉的價格啦這個價差其實不大啦稻米的影響其實不嚴重但是一旦SSG被拿掉之後"},{"start":4236.997,"end":4255.636,"text":"有沒有可能對於農產品的價格或者我直接這樣問你們的評估會不會過度樂觀我跟委員說明其實我們評估針對14項的SSG的品項我們有逐項的評估那這14項裡面其中有10項它有配合制度"},{"start":4256.397,"end":4273.692,"text":"那有配額的時候就是有關稅內配額跟關稅外配額那如果一個產品要進來那我們也同時去分析它有沒有其他競爭對手國我舉豬肉就好豬肉有調降一些關稅但是美國調降關稅以後的豬肉還是比加拿大的還貴"},{"start":4274.953,"end":4302.894,"text":"所以他要能夠量到大到能夠啟動SSG他必須經過取代加拿大的一個豬肉或是巴拉圭的豬肉然後又針對這些量逐步的放大那以豬肉來講我們的消費習性跟我們後續的推動我覺得我們有把握但是我們也必須持續的去關注有一些可能的風險那在這個風險之下我們也投入了一些改善的措施所以部長"},{"start":4303.655,"end":4331.398,"text":"如果我今天是在野黨的委員在野黨委員一定會問你一句話如果照你這樣講的這麼樂觀審慎其實對台灣的風險不大那你為什麼要編列300億的農安基金你300億的農安基金要拿來做什麼你的農安基金是只有穩定或者是輔導而已有沒有一個部分是拿來穩定這個物價或者是穩定這個農民的心絕對有 當我們的價格穩定啦或者是收購啦或者是及時補助"},{"start":4332.739,"end":4350.5,"text":"你的農安基金有沒有做這一塊絕對有 我跟委員報告其實這次跟美國對等談判的一個內容本身對談判是一個機會所以我們要趁這個機會重建我們國內的一個產銷的一個次序包括我們要用價值取代價格的競爭"},{"start":4352.021,"end":4371.592,"text":"因為用低價的競爭我想我們的成本太高所以怎麼樣提升我們的價值我們就會投入更多的資源來避免您所擔心的這個可能的風險我們覺得影響不大但是我們不會樂觀到都不去忽略這個議題我們會持續的去關心"},{"start":4373.393,"end":4389.311,"text":"好 不講這個因為時間已經到我不耽誤大家太多時間但是我想剛剛的這個部分在野黨的委員一定會持續針對這一點對農業部提出質疑所以農業部的評估不宜太過樂觀甚至你要把剛剛您在"},{"start":4390.912,"end":4419.278,"text":"質詢台上面回答的這些部分把它做成簡單明瞭的圖卡讓農民讓消費端讓國內的整個市場端都能夠很清楚的知道在政策上面農業部對於國內的農產品的保護到什麼樣的程度到做到什麼樣的機制我覺得這個部分應該要很清楚的來對國人說謝謝委員提醒 謝謝好接下來我們請洪昭偉質詢"},{"start":4428.322,"end":4455.47,"text":"好 謝謝主席我們有請經濟部消保處經濟部長公平會 法務部公平會 法務部詹委好我想這個中東戰火那我們大概在初期現在我們大概都在捕破網那政府失能之後我們就匆匆忙忙連滾帶爬"},{"start":4457.776,"end":4484.406,"text":"那這個就是過去我們一堆不管是各地方黨部朝野政黨立委都會收到這一堆東西塑膠袋之亂農業包材的缺貨對不對釐清也是缺貨醫材也是缺所以這看了很多所以會從一個點就跑到很多的點"},{"start":4485.677,"end":4507.229,"text":"那缺貨完大概就是漲價那當然我們去查的理由當然就是原物料短缺嘛對不對我們的石化這些原物料供應鏈就生不出來斷層然後呢你就囤貨然後再來就是轉價就是高價就漲了所以這個東西來講的話呢就變成是說我們現在看到的這個狀況"},{"start":4509.124,"end":4531.559,"text":"那稍微都統計了這我想各位經濟部農業部這個公平會消保你們這些大概都清楚以稀塑膠原料漲價20%那農業部的報告有寫尿素對不對上漲54.3因為跟我們的肥料有關係醫安也是那醫療器材就是我們的塑膠啦食品藥品的包材這些都是大幅上升"},{"start":4532.988,"end":4552.15,"text":"那政府行政院當然就會講說我專案會議一堆那現在我的問題就是說我們都政府都強調說我有專案會議啊我也有開會我也找了經濟部農業部我也啟動了這個消保公平對不對這一堆來調查"},{"start":4553.482,"end":4578.281,"text":"所以我們就會常聽到說有我有開會我有專案我有機場我有平台可是我覺得這個跟我們民眾距離很遙遠民眾他只關心說東西有沒有買得到然後價格有沒有穩住其實我現在更想問的是這種東西我們是第一次發生嘛就下次再來一次不管是什麼因素"},{"start":4579.362,"end":4592.236,"text":"這個就是有點諷刺我們一直講說要任性可是這個任性好像都是一個東西打下來之後就不見了所以我現在想要問的就是說經濟部這邊跟我們這些消保處還有公平會"},{"start":4596.801,"end":4603.408,"text":"我去稍微調查尤其像消保處說3月3號到4月7號開了5次會議配合稽查29次配合其他機關28次每週查訪17項聽起來好像很多我想請問一下消保處"},{"start":4613.513,"end":4633.514,"text":"就是說你們的這個預警的指標到底會是什麼然後呢就是你的價格漲幅啊超過多少才要限制然後你要啟動就是什麼時候低於多久你要啟動一些的什麼一級應變等等有沒有這樣的準則在消保"},{"start":4636.481,"end":4663.998,"text":"我們因為是這個聯基小組那在聯基小組裡面的這個有分一級二級三級那原則上我們現在每期就是我們現在每週因為本來我們定期查17項的民生物資17項有包含剛剛我們講的這些嗎是沒有塑膠袋17項重要民生物資沒有塑膠袋所以塑膠袋不算民生物資目前不在17項也沒有人跟你說這個很重要要去查還是說這個"},{"start":4665.863,"end":4680.335,"text":"我們會觀測因為我們聯機小組也會開會就是發現輿情上面有什麼樣的反應我們就會這個就是我說的就是就會開會然後開會就告訴你說我有去查查就這樣子可是跟我剛剛講的那個民眾的距離很遙遠"},{"start":4682.326,"end":4702.53,"text":"我們兩個最遙遠的距離就是我都覺得有在漲你都說有在查所以我們就會跟聯基小組一起去查所以的確我們這次也進行了這些稽查的工作公平會剛剛也是被問很多當然我也了解你的苦衷有聯合漲價什麼等等但不管我上次已經跟公平會說過你那個動作樣式還是要擺出來"},{"start":4707.392,"end":4721.662,"text":"我們已經有立案調查了針對塑膠袋這個部分那釐清的部分我們也去了解跟工會進行初步了解我們專關就是因為釐清昨天也是很多委員在問啊因為你光對不對我們台電中油"},{"start":4722.943,"end":4741.896,"text":"從公民會的執掌裡面我們會關切末端的那個交易狀況那就是供貨供貨的確現在出現了不確定性然後價格上漲所以在利清的業者部分他們只能目前大概是鼓勵這個會員或是相關的同業或是買方去規劃一下那個工程的進度那個經濟部應該說利清是夠的"},{"start":4743.957,"end":4759.936,"text":"現在到存貨啦現在可以供應到五月底五月底那六月份這個台塑它已經在因為它到五月底是OK的嘛所以它六月份的部分它已經在國際間想辦法要進口了"},{"start":4760.981,"end":4779.327,"text":"好啦就是我相信各位都很努力那再順便請教經濟部問題就是說我們現在的話呢你也去拜託中油對不對四清要提前開五也協調台塑化台聚維持一些供應那看起來塑膠袋你認為這個供應量應該是足夠"},{"start":4781.488,"end":4800.666,"text":"可是我的看法是說如果我們上游是有料的真的穩住了中游也都能中間的中中游也真的夠然後生產的出來下游如果也真的通我就搞不懂就是說我們為什麼還要緊急打電話專線臨時煤核點撞"},{"start":4804.285,"end":4825.2,"text":"來補這個破洞報委員因為我們這個平價專案是從這個禮拜才開始啟動那中油的料已經給這個台塑了那台塑應該他做了以後明天就可以開始出貨所以這筆貨是平價的我們會慢慢到生產端然後鋪貨出去但是呢"},{"start":4826.061,"end":4848.508,"text":"因為這些中東事情開始發生以後呢在最末端大家會有一些預期心理是不是可能會有比較緊俏的狀況所以這種狀況就需要我們趕快去關懷調度我比較喜歡從數位科技的角度來看我剛點了這幾個問題就是說在行政、物價影定小組裡面這些都是參與的單位嘛"},{"start":4849.108,"end":4867.185,"text":"所以我是覺得那整個上中下有整個戰情室整個這些資訊的通透到了我末端的供應上中下有這些的資料information我覺得行政院不管是哪一個部會要去負責你們就要不然就是經濟部我們產發署去負責把這個系統對不對"},{"start":4873.109,"end":4893.826,"text":"知道我在講什麼 邱署長應該知道我在講什麼我覺得這個很重要 因為我們已經喊了那麼多年嘛 是吧所以我覺得這件事情是不是從現在就開始做了然後以後就是比較不會說我上游好像也有 中游也都夠了 然後剛剛委員一堆啊我的攤販 小吃 夜市 商場 那就是沒有了"},{"start":4894.406,"end":4914.314,"text":"對不對那你要跨到部會去農業部那部分是還有啦我說整個部會嘛行政院是一個整體嘛那你農業部衛福部的醫材這些等等也都是好那我想這個經濟部就請回了各位這些請回休息一下我想請這個農業部跟這個衛福部就是"},{"start":4919.955,"end":4938.77,"text":"在我們現在這個資料裡面在農業部我是覺得這一次有去做一些預警對不對然後有去做一些的這樣子的補貼那我覺得衛福部這邊建立了醫材翻譯通報但是我們也動資了健保安全基我是覺得說這種補貼到什麼時候會結束因為價格還是要穩下來嘛"},{"start":4943.294,"end":4960.831,"text":"那我們很多這個醫材的這個一線的同仁也去反映就是我叫不到貨然後這個什麼一堆我的看病好像也要漲等等那這個200億的這個健保安全準備金可不可以請衛福部說明一下"},{"start":4963.423,"end":4988.588,"text":"謝謝委員我先補充喔在我們在3月23的時候衛福部這邊就發現到我們在相關的藥品衣材還有包材的部分可能會受到衝擊所以其實3月23衛福部就先發文給經濟部請產發署協助我們能夠穩定我們在相關的醫療用品醫療衛材前端的原料供應這個部分先跟委員做報告那委員這邊提到的200億的安全準備金是準備其實是去年在我們的相關任性的議題裡面"},{"start":4989.568,"end":5013.779,"text":"準備說如果因為關稅或者是在這一次的因為戰爭等等的原因造成我們健保一些藥品或者是醫材必須要調整藥價的時候他可能會有必須要有一個準備不然的話超過我們的總額那這一塊當然我們現在已經啟動就是說假如這個藥品或者是醫材他有明確的這個成本上升那廠商這邊的他的價格必須要去調整我們的健保給付價的時候"},{"start":5014.039,"end":5040.324,"text":"我想有一些的就是說這些安全準備金的使用的方式因為當時是關稅嘛還沒有戰爭的爆發所以我想說這些的用途上面因為有些醫界的人士在所以這個部分也在跟我們補充就是說這個價格但是在這個部分也不能隨便就是去價格高薪多少就多少所以在健保這邊要重新去調整如果必須重新調整幾付價格的話就是我認為要照顧到病人對不對我們醫護人員也在跟我們"},{"start":5042.244,"end":5063.256,"text":"我們現在其實也謝謝產發署的協助我們現在我們都在媒合我們相關的醫材這邊那其實有些醫材它的這個原物料它的供應它的庫存因為有時間不夠沒關係你再提書面的報告給我們我用書面的什麼我們這個書面的這個健保的這個安全的準備金那我們提供我們的做法制度這些"},{"start":5066.138,"end":5090.499,"text":"第一個農業波子剩一個問題就是說剛剛我們講那個肥料實名登記那我也請不用回答我就回去調查一下再給我書面就好就有些農民的使用他覺得有點囉哩吧嗦那看看是不是說強制使用跟回饋使用這裡頭有沒有什麼樣子的要改善之處好不好再書面報告給我這樣子 謝謝"},{"start":5098.114,"end":5101.223,"text":"接下來我們請鍾嘉斌委員質詢"},{"start":5115.646,"end":5128.065,"text":"好 主席 再讓委員先進 列席的政府監事長 官員 會長 工作夥伴 媒體記者 女士先生有請經濟部 拱部長 農業部 陳部長以及衛福部的林次長然後公平會的陳代理主委請準備莊委員長"},{"start":5131.657,"end":5158.721,"text":"兩位部長好 次長好盤點大宗物資進口依賴度建立供應鏈數據庫防炒作來我們看一下首先似乎美伊戰事播映見日但是人家為未來做準備我們看到了包材肥料農業部跟經濟部都出手了好那我們常常有一句話說請看下一頁不要浪費任何一次的危機兩位部長跟次長還記得在26年前有一個921地震嗎"},{"start":5160.236,"end":5184.847,"text":"那個時候發生的是我在地方政府屏東縣政府服務很多地方主動要去救災結果高速公路塞住了後來做了什麼事情呢因為921正在做初期沒有實施交通管制道路交通混亂後來災防法27條跟災防救法第30條就設定了在緊急狀況的時候政府會介入對這些道路運輸的優先使用順序部長兩位部長你同意嗎"},{"start":5186.492,"end":5192.95,"text":"好 前事不忘後事之資 來往下看所以呢在昨天我在外交官委員會我就問了我們的"},{"start":5194.116,"end":5219.881,"text":"環境部部長我說在資源有限的情況下要建立使用的優先順序情況緊急 原味要上漲缺貨 民眾搶購 以息不穩我們的醫材 輸液等等等都需要用到塑膠容器來往下看那請問一下三個部位農業部的資材 衛福部的醫材跟經濟部他們商家所使用的包材哪一個最重要你們有共識嗎來 次長說我們的醫材最重要 對不對我同意"},{"start":5221.241,"end":5236.557,"text":"環境部長也同意但是呢你看馬上有意見了我們發財很重要啊後面農業部長你不出聲農民怎麼辦所以怎麼辦一財優先啊一財優先好所以呢我在昨天的時候啊其實就請啊應該是反過來"},{"start":5237.838,"end":5255.185,"text":"環境部、會同經濟部、衛福部、農業部就塑膠原料的優先供應順序但是我們是足量供應給他們啊沒有足量,當缺料的時候你就要管制嘛但是誰給多誰給少誰來決定是環境部規定還是經濟部決定"},{"start":5256.679,"end":5269.416,"text":"目前來講的話你們有沒有訂出來的?必要性跟急迫性的優先項目有沒有訂出來?理論上是這個...理論上我當然有啊,實務上有沒有?沒有,理論上是醫材優先啦我現在不是誰優先,我說這個優先項目有沒有訂出來了?"},{"start":5271.021,"end":5298.499,"text":"我們會逐量供應給醫材第一個我不是在問逐量供應給醫材我是說未來有這麼多需求者誰優先不夠的時候誰給多少誰給多誰給少這個要不要定出來要定出來嘛好不好我相信你們可能還沒定要定出來環境部因為他負責檢縮他要定了來那個次長請回我們請那個公平會上來來往下看所以呢過往的危機啊過往的危機呢我們會怎麼處理"},{"start":5299.622,"end":5328.266,"text":"有沒有看過過去三十幾年前的擠兌委下公平會陳大理事會銀行發生擠兌的時候你覺得你是銀行你會怎麼做限制大家一天只能領一萬塊你會這樣做嗎如果是擠兌的情況當然這也是一個可能的選項不是通常銀行怎樣他把所有的鈔票擺在櫃檯上說你們放心來拿不缺大家一看一看哇錢那麼多摸摸鼻子不要解單啦他會損失利息是不是這樣子"},{"start":5329.597,"end":5357.228,"text":"所以我們在遇到危機的時候管理方法不同有些時候你要防止恐慌性的需求產生孔部長同不同意所以我們經常不斷的宣布我們足量供應就是預防恐慌性的需求是不是這樣很好但是口罩呢農業部長口罩的時候我們怎麼做我們有說要多少給多少我都無限量供應有這樣嗎那個農業部長我先問你因為我不是問次長我是問農業部長"},{"start":5358.428,"end":5381.923,"text":"你還記得那時候怎麼做嗎口罩口罩當年怎麼做口罩當時我們用實名制對不對嚴峻的時候是實名制的方式剛剛我們的召委也說到了有時候恐慌來之前我們要讓大家安心有時候真的不足了我們要實名制要管制對不對好謝謝還往下看所以呢台灣要哪些原物料高度仰賴進口部長 廣部長你有確認過嗎"},{"start":5384.402,"end":5406.718,"text":"能源的部分是能源部分是那個我們陳部長糧食的部分也有確認過嘛最主要是畜牧用的飼料往下看所以呢我們看到以西塑膠飆漲啊今天我在上週揭發了台塑化假減產真烘台他辯解啊他說沒有啊我還是按照過去我的客戶"},{"start":5408.032,"end":5416.362,"text":"一年平均的月需求我還是先給一半再給四分之一再給四分之一他還是給他啊部長 兩位部長 國務部長你相信嗎"},{"start":5418.735,"end":5443.877,"text":"我們有去了解 他說法是這樣為什麼他要這樣做 如果那時候台塑化的秉希 乙希像跟銀行擠兌一樣 你要多少我給你避免恐慌性的這個需求 結果會怎麼樣有人來搶貨 搶到家裡囤積只要公平會抓不到 囤積的暴利不是台塑化拿到是這些搶購的這些客戶拿到 是不是這樣子"},{"start":5444.517,"end":5448.146,"text":"所以他說 我不要讓他們去囤積去取得這個超額利潤乾脆要囤我來囤你覺得這樣的說法合理嗎"},{"start":5453.698,"end":5477.052,"text":"很難判斷 需要檢調調查所以說啊 當有一個斷貨危機的時候 手上有貨有料的他就會思考 我要是足量供應 是要別人在賺啦要是我這邊開始管制 到時候要給多要給少 我在賺 往下看所以我先問一下 如何遇上炒作首先要掌握真實的需求 陳主委你是不是同意"},{"start":5479.015,"end":5502.742,"text":"市場上目前的供需狀況是當然要了解的那你如何掌握真實的需求關於塑膠力所產生的各種產品從進口商、大盤商、中盤商、零碗商到消費者請問經濟部你如何掌握這些節點的真實需求我們都有這個它的原物料的去向我們都有了解確定嗎 我往下看來 從進口商到大盤商、中盤商你怎麼確定它的進跟消"},{"start":5503.991,"end":5524.242,"text":"你能掌握它的競銷項嗎如果巨乙烯的話是非常清楚那塑膠粒往下走它會存在巨乙烯而已啦它會存在塑膠粒啦因為塑膠粒的話是國內有供應而且還有進口啦你如果要掌握我告訴你啦因為我從財政委員會過來啦競銷項哪裡最清楚發票啦"},{"start":5525.154,"end":5552.752,"text":"是不是這樣子所以要掌握這些有發票的這個金流我可以知道它的競銷向嘛 對不對往下看好 那什麼工具我已經幫你講了什麼工具可以幫助政府建立資料庫金流的部分從進口商到中盤商都有競銷向的發票從零售商到消費者可能就沒有但是物流的部分除了報關資料之外你們知道過去稅捐機關怎麼查網購到底的營業額嗎"},{"start":5554.601,"end":5576.255,"text":"網購的這些賣家 你知道銀額怎麼查嗎 有沒有聽說 我跟你們講啊他如果覺得這個網購的賣家說我上個月只做了一百萬 他去查他的什麼 查他你到底多少宅物流 黑貓啊不對啊 你上個月你交給黑貓的配送物件就好幾百單了啊 怎麼可能銀額只有一百萬 了解嗎"},{"start":5577.543,"end":5605.693,"text":"所以部長除了金流的競銷項的發票之外還有物流的貨運的存取單啊你們有沒有把這個東西納入你是說要掌握什麼沒有關鍵的有進口依賴度的這些物料我們要為了緊急時我們可能不足量沒有辦法足量供應我要給需要的人我要給他實際的需求的人我怎麼知道他過去每個月用多少我可以跟他謊報啊對不對"},{"start":5606.973,"end":5617.607,"text":"經濟部有沒有能力掌握 公平會如果是生產端 我們是有是的 現在不是生產端嘛 部長現在囤的在哪裡在中間的通路端嘛 陳主委"},{"start":5618.744,"end":5643.792,"text":"來 請教一下 你覺得呢 你要怎麼做對於這種所謂生產端的一些供需狀況我們必須要 通常都是在個案的時候 我們會進去調解是的 從生產到最後的消費者當中還有什麼 還有物流嘛 有中間的盤商嘛盤商你如何掌握他的進貨跟出貨有沒有屯 屯在他手上 進的多出的少 這叫屯嘛有沒有辦法掌握 部長了解了沒有要怎麼去掌握這些"},{"start":5645.202,"end":5673.631,"text":"我們如果有個案的話我們會去聊起來有個案啊但是當你要實施必要的時候實施限量供應的時候你怎麼知道他真實的需求往下看所以呢我希望啊農業部也好經濟部也好當然衛生部他們比較容易掌握因為醫察的管制比較嚴所以呢多元的來源進口商這部分政府會參與從大盤中盤這裡面有競銷向的發票到了零售商這邊到了消費者手上可能還有物流的委託單"},{"start":5674.943,"end":5692.585,"text":"那這些數據有誰打算去掌握?我是針對什麼?針對這些有高度進口依賴的大宗物資,它所產生的衍生的民生物資,我們去掌握它的實際需求以及它的去向。部長,這樣你同意嗎?跟你簡單講,你打算怎麼做?"},{"start":5693.683,"end":5715.314,"text":"如果這樣的話可能要一個很大的一個數據的一個現在就AI什麼AI就搞定了我們趙偉他就說了他是科技他是數位你問趙偉他就可以幫你解決我們嘗試來做啦但是這個東西是不是有牽涉到所謂的營業秘密還是是的沒有錯所以你們要去研究嘛你們有三八數嘛對不對好陳部長農業的部分有沒有辦法做到"},{"start":5717.052,"end":5744.582,"text":"農業部分基本上我們針對主要的這些原物料的部分我們其實已經掌握進口商本身跟飼料廠之間的這些異動那往下通路的部分呢那基本上飼料比較不會有在另外通路通常都是進口來以後在飼料廠飼料廠就到農民端了是 所以你們供應的比較短經濟部管的各行業供應長醫產的部分大部分有管制所以兩個主張請兩位部長跟主委承諾一下"},{"start":5745.702,"end":5771.412,"text":"盤點目前高度仰賴進口的民生必需品大宗物資並預設優先供應的順序清單可以嗎應該可以最後就全國物流業的競銷或資料可以服以各供應鏈的節點的財稅資料試著去可能建立一個在不影響商業營業秘密的情況之下競銷或者數據資料或者可行性可行性而已不是叫你們馬上做可行性這是必須要做的"},{"start":5771.852,"end":5794.122,"text":"但是怎麼樣做才是隕蕩哪些物品哪些品項要做怎麼去做才不會侵犯到我們民間人民的營業秘密這個是不是請兩位部長跟陳代理主委兩個院內提一個書面報告來評估一下可以嗎部長可以在沒有違背相關的規定之下我們一定可以做一些完整的評估總部長可以嗎好陳主委可以嗎"},{"start":5795.633,"end":5815.14,"text":"針對特定 針對全面性的我們比較沒有這個空間有大宗進口依賴的對那什麼是大宗進口有高度進口依賴的這個名單你跟國安單位拿好謝謝好我們謝謝這個中交兵委員接下來的話我們有請張家俊委員"},{"start":5825.151,"end":5829.395,"text":"謝謝張偉我想請陳部長請農業部陳部長因為昨天有關於這個塑膠袋的事情我已經有請教過我們的工部長所以今天就藉這個機會來請教陳部長有關於最近我們台灣漁產價格一直就是不是很理想的事情不曉得部長針對這部分有沒有掌握"},{"start":5851.4,"end":5875.069,"text":"我想我們漁業署針對主要的這些養殖的一些魚種那它的價格的趨勢他們都有定期的做這些分析那最近有一些持便價比較低的部分那特別是在一般的無鉤魚的部分是比較低的部分是因為它去年本身的一個外銷先拉貨了所以對於相對的基期年比較低"},{"start":5876.001,"end":5884.692,"text":"沒錯沒錯就是我今天想跟部長討論的就是這個台灣凋的狀況那從剛才部長講的你非常掌握狀況從去年的這個藥檢烏龍到這個美國關稅變動再到這個"},{"start":5891.3,"end":5913.577,"text":"可以說是美國去年就是4月宣布這個對等關稅的時候他就大量的先囤貨了那囤貨之後現在美方在消化庫存然後一方面又觀望減少下單所以導致今年台灣貂的外銷價格直直落而且到目前為止今年1月出口量只有752噸"},{"start":5915.999,"end":5934.59,"text":"那比去年同期整整降了三成那部長台灣貂養殖成本一斤多少錢你知道嗎我不瞭解大概30元一台斤32塊差不多30、32元但現在外銷的這個賣價是多少你知道嗎你們知道嗎"},{"start":5937.521,"end":5948.569,"text":"對不起我們沒有轉過這個訊息我至少沒關係我這邊有就是一台金大概是21塊那你算一算他是不是賣一斤賠一斤等於是賣一斤要賠將近10元所以農民現在是"},{"start":5955.033,"end":5967.098,"text":"養越多 賠越多那可不可以請部長想想辦法怎麼協助這些漁民呢因為現在是外銷售組後續的連續反應等於是外患引發了內憂原本應該消亡美國的產量他因為出不去全部灌回國內的這個內需市場導致了供需失衡那國內的價格跟著一直下跌那這樣子我們怎麼辦呢"},{"start":5982.203,"end":6001.516,"text":"我跟委員說明其實我們也關注到這個議題就是短時間之內的這些貨拉不出去的時候那我們有啟動一些短期的一個凍儲的一個機制就是讓市場上不要有那麼多的無鉤魚第二個部分就是因為無鉤魚如果繼續養大一點的時候它可以做切片的部分"},{"start":6002.136,"end":6014.31,"text":"那它有另外一個用途所以我們用不同的方式來協助讓它的量不要那麼多的時候它的價格才有機會平穩是 其實我知道你們都很努力那我先也再舉例就是說你知道2024年9月"},{"start":6019.135,"end":6044.301,"text":"吳國瑜 就是台灣貂 就是台灣貂現在那個時候是每公斤72元 等於是每台金43.2元那下跌到今年3月 每公斤58.7元 每台金才35.2元所以大概跌幅是兩成 這不是一個冷冰冰的數字 這個是農民 漁民的生計啊 那漁民其實現在你看喔價格不好賣了賠錢他"},{"start":6046.722,"end":6065.294,"text":"不賣的話他養在池子裡面以不斷的增加成本他是兩方面的壓力那我當然知道說部長剛剛講的就是有開始啟動這個凍存的部分那我走訪了一些漁民我覺得他們有一些建議我也想借這個機會給農業部然後請部長是不是能夠來研究一下怎麼樣來協助他們因為"},{"start":6073.399,"end":6097.247,"text":"他們的意思是說 像很多其他的國家舉例 泰國好了 泰國米它就是整個政府組隊到處去宣傳 去看其他國家有沒有這個需求 去開拓市場因為你一直凍存也不是辦法啦你如果到時候斷雕 也很可笑的所以 假設可以組一個 類似台灣雕國家隊 或者是鰻魚國家隊由這個農業部 帶領這些業者"},{"start":6102.088,"end":6114.813,"text":"一起去開拓市場是不是能夠去展售 因為說實在我們的鰻魚 我們的台灣鯛都是品質非常優良 而且都是高蛋白質的來源你不要想說歐美不喜歡其實像鰻魚飯來說"},{"start":6119.535,"end":6138.192,"text":"在英國在歐洲也是很受歡迎像台灣鯛它是非常適合歐美人食用因為他們不敢吃到有刺你知道嗎所以它的魚片是很適合歐美國家如果我們把目標都只放日本的話我覺得太可惜了所以我是在這裡誠懇的建議部長能夠組一個"},{"start":6142.176,"end":6170.241,"text":"去賣帶著這些業者去推廣去賣的這個隊伍讓他們能夠有這個能力因為說實在這個如果不是農業部不是國家來做他們單一個別的沒辦法農漁民也沒辦法甚至他們的什麼廠商也沒有辦法做到只有國家帶隊一起去甚至可能要編一些廣宣的費用讓人家知道說哇 吃魚"},{"start":6171.241,"end":6187.874,"text":"就要吃台灣來的然後吃不管是吃台灣的鯛魚或者是吃台灣的鰻魚都是最高品質的是不是這一點可以拜託部長我想謝謝委員的這樣的一個建議特別是農民的這些建議我想我支持也認同這樣的一個想法"},{"start":6188.314,"end":6216.978,"text":"那後續我想我們不會只仰賴日本市場因為只要有任何的機會特別是吳國瑜的魚片的部分像新加坡也是一個很強的市場那我們會透過相關的實名展甚至於我們會啟動一些在現有的通路我們已經建立的通路之下將這個吳國瑜或其他的產品進到原來的通路系統那更快就有機會去做我想我們我會交代約束來做一個安排"},{"start":6217.298,"end":6220.62,"text":"是這一點特別脈迫部長 我想其實如果把這個市場一打開來 搞不好告訴我們不夠賣對不對 我們的鯛魚 我們的鰻魚真的都非常非常的棒那另外呢 我接下來想要問一下就是部長喔我其實發現農業部很用心在於數位化這一方面就是APP"},{"start":6240.131,"end":6252.704,"text":"那今年農業部1月上架了一個新的APP叫做農業數位整合服務那我對於這個農業部善用科技工具是很贊同那我想要請問一下部長您知道農業部目前有幾個APP嗎我想我並"},{"start":6257.649,"end":6280.428,"text":"並沒有記住這樣的一個APP的像素那針對您剛才講的這個部分那其實剛才現在最近上架的就是未來希望我們的天然災害的時候不需要因為有很多資料庫可以去做比對那也能夠減輕未來農民有沒有樣樣都跑到公所去拿到地基因為他也許前一年"},{"start":6281.028,"end":6297.593,"text":"去簡化他的流程他前一年也許有地籍有資料了所以我們希望把我們現在所有資料庫串聯以後能夠供第一線的鄉公所去去簡化他的一個程序部長我覺得這個利益良好因為我們現在在現場現在在不算頭啊"},{"start":6300.014,"end":6327.363,"text":"說實在很多人不會用APP 要公所特別請人去協助用APP我現在不理解的是喔我初步盤點 目前農業部有12個APP什麼棄作一把抓 豬場一把捉然後農業缺工好幫手 農務一把抓然後田邊好幫手 I plan等等說實在我也希望說部長是不是可以花點時間盤點一下有一些是不是能夠整合 因為"},{"start":6329.17,"end":6346.176,"text":"我...我每次報書都不知道說這到底對什麼 要用對什麼所以我相信喔 部長你覺得看這個你也不知道要用對什麼這麼多 我最好是單一入口然後多樣的功能讓農民可以方便使用不然你十幾個齁"},{"start":6348.069,"end":6364.275,"text":"今天我就算一個一個問部長你也不知道怎麼用所以我相信喔這個是需要一點時間去整合就好像如果假設我問你說今天部長是農民想要APP整理農地作業紀錄你是要用IPLAN還是要用農務一把抓"},{"start":6365.437,"end":6391,"text":"這兩個系統都可以是它後面是連接的是 所以你不要給它兩個入口嘛你最好就是 欸 單一入口因為它其實功能是重疊的那你如果入口分散反而會降低使用的意願而且你再一個一個加就麻煩了所以我是希望說這個方向是正確的你要讓它跟上科技的時代簡化很多公務的這個流程甚至讓我們農民喔可以"},{"start":6391.721,"end":6409.366,"text":"越來越方便使用但是這一點我是不是給部長一個建議啊因為這個實在是使用者的困擾而且你知道嗎運營的成本也一定是會增墊高你們運營成本包括你說農地限地行動調查作業APP一年編920萬農業數位整合服務APP一年又編1272萬說實在加加起來你說十幾個十幾個GAP"},{"start":6420.669,"end":6443.215,"text":"加起來不少錢所以我也希望說是不是可以開源節流然後整合比較少的路口我不敢說一個啦但是十幾個你總是可以當size到可能三個四個比較主要的這樣子我覺得是不是能夠方便我們農民跟漁民來使用我想我們可以來檢討但是因為"},{"start":6444.435,"end":6470.728,"text":"同一個領域性質類時我覺得可以把它整合在一起但是像餘的跟蓄的有沒有當然那要分開所以我會針對這些APP本身把它分類那同性質的部分盡量能夠有一個統一的一個窗口因為它現在已經有人在用的時候要去轉換可能需要一點時間所以我想我會啟動一個專案的方式來做這個方面的處理好 特別拜託部長謝謝部長"},{"start":6472.827,"end":6501.461,"text":"好謝謝我問一下你們在場農業部所有官員手機目前有這幾個APP的有裝的多少個部長有沒有我有裝最主要是我想要看的這個像iPlane的部分有沒有那有一些網站的部分然後最新的那個我們都有然後看天然災害勘災就是有三個三到四個對其他農業部的因為很多東西是針對"},{"start":6503.102,"end":6516.272,"text":"農民端在使用我是幫委員問啦因為我每次最喜歡問這個自己做的APP然後自己不裝自己不用然後不上去APP Store看那個Download使用人次然後Complain程度對不對"},{"start":6518.968,"end":6536.338,"text":"不過我要跟委員報告因為APE本身有的東西對象是農民在登錄的用沒關係沒關係就是所有農民登錄用你自己做一個假user還是可以的我的意思是說你們還是要有一個自己要率先好不好可以我們應該照這個好接下來的話我們請楊瓊英委員質詢"},{"start":6550.117,"end":6552.321,"text":"好 謝謝主席 陽泉發言 邀請部長經濟部 國務部長"},{"start":6569.872,"end":6580.558,"text":"近期美伊衝突加劇布蘭特的原油一度也衝上了百元大關我看了各部會的報告大家都在談"},{"start":6581.499,"end":6603.934,"text":"硬变机制跟稳定供需所以我本席要在这边提醒我们部会首长以及相关单位也就是对老百姓来讲对民众来讲这些国际政治的名词他认为是很遥远但是他每天眼睛张开他必须要面对因为石化原料的大涨"},{"start":6604.974,"end":6626.473,"text":"導致帶動的一個通膨的一個壓力這是民眾每天必須要面對一個生存的一個挑戰所以因此我看了報告在農業部裡頭我們提出了這個原料大概漲了五成那補助也加碼那經濟部你也說在塑化末端的這些產品PVC等那你說你們可以媒合平台來做調度"},{"start":6631.297,"end":6651.213,"text":"但是我要問的是這一些的補助有沒有真正協助到我們的農民這一些的平台有沒有真正協助到需要這一些原物料的人因為我們看到這一些物料特別有沒有針對台灣的馬路也就是我們的立青"},{"start":6653.174,"end":6675.809,"text":"那我們用這些公帑去補助的時候 要怎麼樣落實 這非常重要所以我首先要跟部長來討論 因為這是民生非常重要 交通跟建設我們不要讓入坪變成是入窮所以利清跟PPC管是石化工業的一個終端產品那現在價格一下子30% 一下60%一直在漲所以相對的在存量跟價格的一個斷層當中 昨天部長你說了"},{"start":6683.574,"end":6709.208,"text":"您說在國內的濾清存量大概有4.2萬噸那可以支撐到6月但是部長本期看到的是您說的量本期看到的是價格的問題因為現在很多地方迫切需要的修的農路而且有很多這個補強道路的小型標案尤其開口合約他一開口的價格就是一年度的這個價格這定點在那裡"},{"start":6711.909,"end":6717.551,"text":"所以在這樣情況之下包商簽的固定單價他現在買不到料即使買了他又要賠錢那這怎麼辦呢那全國有多少地方小型工程因為成本高漲而暴停工所以在這個地方民生的這個工程單位本席認為部長"},{"start":6735.899,"end":6757.284,"text":"必須要好好的去做清查怎麼樣讓這些可以真正落實到民生所需要的請做說明包委員分成兩個部分一個是量我們量還是要盡量滿足他們給他們充足那另外一個就是這樣量就您說的4.2萬噸嘛你目前統計到6月底嘛對5月底那新的這個到5月底5月底對對"},{"start":6762.245,"end":6777.667,"text":"哇 那現在已經是4月囉對對對 那新的部分那更嚴峻囉台塑他們6月開始進料他們也會再調度進來那量的部分我們希望達到這樣子那價的部分當然是有漲沒有錯啦本來是"},{"start":6779.55,"end":6791.523,"text":"兩萬漲到兩萬五所以大家漲了這個百分之二十左右但是就是說現在因為原物料的部分的確是有這樣的一些反應那我們再看看這個部分我們將來怎麼樣來協助"},{"start":6795.051,"end":6820.226,"text":"所以這個不是看看怎麼樣協助你現在已經看到問題你必須要去應對因為你現在說的五月份那你現在的量是到五月份但是有現在全國有很多這些工程是跟民生最迫切需要的如果他所產生的會有很多的問題產生所以我具體建議必須要將你看到的這些問題政府有責任要去將這個機制去達到"},{"start":6822.448,"end":6828.005,"text":"不管是在量或者是在價格方面所以我們現在就是折騰這個中油"},{"start":6830.29,"end":6854.824,"text":"在期限貨去買如果需要的話那台塑化的部分他們進口是這個柏油漆的原油進來就可以產生這個濾芯的部分所以這個部分本身也特別提醒也就是在你的量跟價政府必須要協助好 管控好那接下來農業部長在這裡我跟農業部長來討論也就是我們的肥料的問題"},{"start":6856.305,"end":6879.684,"text":"我們留守現在高達54.3%上一次本席跟你討論我說一定要照顧我們的農民對不對一定要照顧我們的農民你們也做了所以你現在宣布肥料的補貼最高調到每包是上限是435塊最高的是不是如此不是我想一個非常大的原則就是我們肥料是凍帳的"},{"start":6881.743,"end":6896.225,"text":"動帳的部分當然啊 所以你要補貼下來啊對 當時會根據國際原料的一個價格所以是你補貼嘛 不是台北自己吞嘛對是政府補貼嘛是政府補貼 然後台北也有做部分的一個協助"},{"start":6897.284,"end":6915.295,"text":"怎麼協助他也吸收部分的部分的吸收的那個價差所以你現在對外公布的是每包最高因為肥料有很多種對你說最高是435是天花板的數字是不是我想他會隨著國際原物料的調服而做一些變動"},{"start":6916.215,"end":6933.927,"text":"做變動嗎?本期要跟你討論的就這一點因為沒有人有辦法去確定戰爭到底會怎麼樣我們希望不要戰爭但是不是我們可控的在這樣的情況之下因為我們看到說最高調到每包435元本期認為所以現在部長你說的會隨時依據這個世界的人物量的樣態也就是肥料還是一樣動漲"},{"start":6945.174,"end":6965.71,"text":"對 對農民來講就是肥料價格是不變的好 那所以本席還要提醒也就肥料的價格如果你 我們現在是動漲但是不知道戰爭的情況怎麼樣不知道他樣態怎麼樣 我們隨時應對但是我們還是要小心還是要小心喔如果你的補貼經費會不會夠"},{"start":6969.241,"end":6987.993,"text":"夠不夠 你的基金好不好不過的話 我想我們會跟行政院爭取那行政院也大力的支持針對農民必需的這些生產制裁會給予最大的一個協助所以一個原則 這是我們討論這一題的重點第一個 補助的額度是隨樣態而調整不是在於435塊而吸領的價格第二個 萬一基金不夠的時候還是要以動漲來照顧我們的農民為基準"},{"start":6996.352,"end":7016.258,"text":"對 我們凍帳是我們的目標因為我們申辦如果不夠的時候肥料價格直接是斷崖式的暴漲那農民會受不了啊我跟委員報告從COVID-19開始原物料上漲以後我們就持續的補貼到現在目前原物料跟當時的110年的機器年還要高所以我們持續的凍帳"},{"start":7017.398,"end":7030.65,"text":"那相關的經費我剛才說的行政院一直全力的支持這樣的一個政策所以農利國的台灣我們必須要好好的來協助農民這個是我們共同的目標那數位排擠的部分因為現在肥料實名制你們有沒有統計現在農民有多少還"},{"start":7034.753,"end":7050.715,"text":"我接到很多陳情 我不可以上網 我們要先去看現在的進度增加了嗎這個都是早期一開始推的時候 大家的排斥那當第一次登錄以後 以後你就報你的電話號碼或什麼之後就可以直接進到系統裡面去了"},{"start":7051.095,"end":7067.839,"text":"所以一定要好好地協助農民萬一他還沒有辦法上線的時候要好好地去協助在系統裡面現在有37萬戶在裡面幾乎大部分都在裡面一定要好好去協助而且隨時滾動去檢討讓民眾可以真的便利好 您請回接下來本席要這個衛福部"},{"start":7076.266,"end":7097.407,"text":"因為這次石化缺料影響到我們醫療的這個產品 比如說生產的容器包材 衣材 塑膠等這個嚴重影響 所以在這種情況之下醫療安全優先這個是一個共同的目標 這個非常重要優先供應醫療的所需那我們200億"},{"start":7099.048,"end":7122.504,"text":"健保的預備金政府已經編列這個200億的健保基金的安全準備金就是基本用於因應物料波動導致的成本增加所以本席要請教這筆預算你的標準使用的標準為何那麼我們要如何確保在廠商他在申請條價時資料的一個真實性我們要嚴防不當的一個成本墊"},{"start":7129.568,"end":7129.948,"text":"對 所以部長在這邊做統合的爭議"},{"start":7152.296,"end":7167.712,"text":"所以我們也非常感謝經濟部協助那現在其實都協助我們有明確有需要有吃緊的這些廠商都做媒合這是前端目前目的就是希望說至少在前端能夠供應無虞這是第一個部分那當然如果這一個中東戰事持續"},{"start":7168.413,"end":7184.294,"text":"那之後一直都會有這個現象的時候當然在成本上可能會墊高那在健保這一邊其實健保如果要去調整健保的給付價格必須要進入健保的共擬會議我們的要價的共同擬定會議那要價共同擬定會議這一邊我們的共同擬定會議包含我們相關的"},{"start":7184.694,"end":7213.596,"text":"學協會委員這一邊其實他要帶這些廠商要拿比方說他現在購買的成本是多少他在他的成本每一個這個藥品或醫材的成本會有什麼樣的變動我們要有公式來計算所以不能漫天喊價他必須要的確的數字在這邊說明也就是我們討論這一題的重點因為我們已經編了預算要好好的來協助但是一定要嚴防不能惡意的哄抬這個是我們必須要好好的去"},{"start":7214.236,"end":7219.862,"text":"是 謝謝委員好 那所以部長 我再請部長跟農業部長兩位部長 經理部長還有工品會 工品會今天我們工品會也在這邊所以本席在這邊針對我們今天的討論我們認為戰爭的代價由天天在基層奔走的我們的農民通勤族"},{"start":7235.579,"end":7247.347,"text":"還有呢這個城市的包商就我們剛才講的力清的這些問題所以我有三點要求也就是請部長在這邊清查受阻的工程因為這個跟民生很相關兩周內提交所有缺料影響的地方這個工程的名單那第二個呢就工品會你必須將力清跟石化管財市場反囤積跟反聯合這個漲價的"},{"start":7264.838,"end":7270.1,"text":"去做調查這個非常的重要目前我們已經有立案調查我們希望一個月內能夠拿出這個報告出來那最後一個就是在我們農民的這個部分我們要確保"},{"start":7280.845,"end":7283.107,"text":"補貼要入戶要確保肥料補助款全額的是反映在零售的這個價格不准有任何的盤商從中來抽頭我想以上三點也請各相關單位於時間內提出這個說明"},{"start":7299.958,"end":7322.947,"text":"因為我們最重要的也就是希望守護我們的民生而且要穩定物價因為我們知道在戰爭當中我們不是只有看到數字報告當中的數字而是真正要看到百姓上面的笑容才是真正政策的一個落實好 謝謝好 謝謝楊瓊英委員 謝謝接下來我們請鄭天才委員質詢"},{"start":7338.444,"end":7366.276,"text":"好有請這個我們經濟部部長有請經濟部部長我們看這個今天的議題非常重要非常謝謝趙偉能夠安排他涉及到這個乙烯塑膠化肥濾青等等還有醫藥都涉及到"},{"start":7367.441,"end":7388.372,"text":"至少還有其他的如果我們看這個售品售貨品漲價衝擊產業各種很多的產業包括這個營建業都受影響營建業都受影響利清的關係所以它的很廣泛在這樣的一個情形之下這個"},{"start":7391.717,"end":7406.084,"text":"根據你們的報告二月至今漲幅已超過百分之百國際的部分對 國際的部分那我們看這個因為它是這個梅以伊的戰爭這個是從2月28號2月28號"},{"start":7412.54,"end":7438.778,"text":"如果我們從這個你的所提到的後面也提到4月1號投入運作終有事情提前4月1號如果我們從2月28號到現在已經這麼長的時間所以這是我們要去檢討未來能夠提前因為這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":7441.052,"end":7468.683,"text":"所以必須以後要提前來去規劃那我們看這個它不只是一個缺貨甚至相關的小型工廠也被迫停工五星價是這樣的一個情形它不只是漲價而已還缺貨所以這個部分是相當嚴重的我們剛剛有提到真的是要"},{"start":7470.258,"end":7493.684,"text":"這個因為這樣的這一次的一個狀況要未來都要去做比較詳盡的一個規劃但是我還是比較以後的這個昨天的報告裡面也提到在原油的部分中油公司自2017年起開始採購美國原油"},{"start":7499.981,"end":7522.671,"text":"2017年就開始採購然後現在而且還要擴大採購美國的石油那這樣的話這個為什麼會還會有這種難道美國的石油就沒有辦法解決剛才講的那些乙烯授品那些嗎不一樣那個請中央公司董事長"},{"start":7523.496,"end":7529.477,"text":"不太一樣美國原油是比較輕一點跟中東的油的品質不太一樣性質不太一樣原油分好幾類"},{"start":7543.757,"end":7570.462,"text":"有低流侵蚀原油也有高流侵蚀原油所以我們目前跟美國採購的沒有辦法解決我們現在所面臨的這些比例因為它美國的原油它是比較輕的所以還是要這個也得靠中東的這些是有差別好請回座所以在這樣一個情況之下我們真的是這個"},{"start":7573.103,"end":7585.461,"text":"就一直在強調的還是要避免戰爭尤其是我們台灣所以這個部分是一個非常非常重要還有一個問題"},{"start":7588.844,"end":7603.634,"text":"這個我們塑膠袋的使用量一再的往上升2020年是91.7億個當然這個業務可能不是 是環境部的是環境部的業務 當然你們可以去協調"},{"start":7605.933,"end":7632.349,"text":"到今年一年使用量已經160億個平均每天使用2.7個台灣一年使用量受交代的量是約160億真的是非常非常的不斷的上升所以這個要請經濟部去協調環境部"},{"start":7637.287,"end":7659.308,"text":"這樣的一個那麼可惜,媒體也報導台灣塑膠袋之亂,外媒也關注,還提了一個問題,什麼問題呢?塑膠袋之亂會不會讓我們台灣,台灣塑膠袋短期會推動塑膠袋重複使用嗎?"},{"start":7662.778,"end":7691.056,"text":"所以這個部分是一個是我們過去一直沒有去加強的部分每天我買便當我那個塑膠袋我都會收起來帶回去所以這個部分要去推廣要去推動這是一個非常非常尤其是我們台灣很多都是要靠進口"},{"start":7692.666,"end":7700.756,"text":"靠進口所以這個部分是一個一定要跟環境部去做協調請回座請農業部部長"},{"start":7711.255,"end":7736.183,"text":"這個你們這邊都非常的好都有一些補貼,當然都是用人民的納稅錢就是預算,這個都是持續的去作業這個是有它的一個需求,有一個需要,過去也都這樣做這個部分,這樣的一個情形之下,但還是有漲"},{"start":7738.066,"end":7765.558,"text":"我們針對那個自肥原料然後到了我們不過原料有漲但是在農民使用的肥料是凍漲的然後這個價差是由政府跟台北一起來吸收好這個共同的去解決這樣的一個問題是有它的一個必要性這個總理的報告裡面我們國內自肥原料"},{"start":7767.049,"end":7775.157,"text":"碳肥來自印尼、馬來西亞、澳洲這些國家哪一個國家跟中東有關係呢?"},{"start":7778.886,"end":7795.504,"text":"沙烏地阿拉伯比較接近我跟委員說明那為什麼還會漲我就覺得奇怪委員我告訴你基本上我們台灣台肥的肥料"},{"start":7797.266,"end":7818.068,"text":"上半年3月之前是從杜拜那邊過來的然後大概5月開始是從東南亞、馬來西亞、越南這邊過來的所以它本身來的時候還有運費那運費因為石油提高所以它的現貨就跟股票一樣它的市場會因為行情的關係會去拉高"},{"start":7819.956,"end":7825.103,"text":"所以還是跟石油有關係了因為運費因為運費的關係所以這個還是要避免戰爭這個是台灣很多東西都是靠進口最後這個"},{"start":7837.55,"end":7854.164,"text":"謝謝農業部根據我上一次的質詢針對這個馬灘CN社福造成這些農機器的受損然後你們有這些補助但是因為很多的農機器沒有"},{"start":7856.025,"end":7884.13,"text":"還沒有那個那個證明農機只用證明所以後來你們同意經過我的這個協調你們同意可以透過村里長證明這方面然後非常謝謝你們那因為你們時間有延長到4月底了這個很好這個部分這個也請這個農業部這邊到目前為止的辦理情形"},{"start":7885.29,"end":7913.126,"text":"補助的情形能夠整理可以 我想我甚至要求我們同仁就是在馬太岸因為馬太岸的復建是一個不是一兩個月之內能夠完成的包括它的農田的復育的部分我希望說有一個完整的進度在網上讓關心這個案子的人了解好 謝謝好 謝謝鄭天才委員那接下來我們請鄭振前委員"},{"start":7924.457,"end":7933.762,"text":"謝謝主席我想先請一下公平會的代理主委陳志明然後法務部的專門委員李政惠還有那個消保處的處長鍾瑞蘭處長謝謝還少一位委員長"},{"start":7942.869,"end":7966.559,"text":"謝謝主委我想說今天那個主席特別安排了跟那個塑膠袋之亂有關的相關問題那因為範圍很廣也牽扯到了農業部這邊的肥料的問題那經濟部這邊包括塑膠袋包括了釐清也包括衛福部包括相關醫材的相關的問題我想到目前為止的時候公平會這邊就是"},{"start":7968.28,"end":7984.526,"text":"有沒有查到任何就是相關的一些不法的事情有沒有公平目前的作為大概就是配合法務部的聯合稽查還有本身的立案調查那針對塑膠袋的部分我們是已經立法會調查那立案調查目前已經包含聯合稽查總共查了17個案子"},{"start":7985.046,"end":8006.71,"text":"那目前發現就是說 當然現在供給的不確定性價格有稍微上漲 是然後廠商也會因應的去做一些調配OK 是針對塑膠袋的部分嘛其他對於肥料來儀材的部分都還沒有那濾清的部分我們有現在進行初步的了解我們有跟工會這邊來了解他們目前的情況那總的來說還沒有公平法裡面所謂的聯合拒絕出貨 OK 好"},{"start":8007.491,"end":8025.994,"text":"謝謝主委那我想請教一下那個保護部專門委員目前為止相關這幾個相關領域的時候有沒有相關的案子已經產生了目前是聯合稽查的部分主要是針對這個塑料的原物料在做稽查只是這個塑料部分有沒有已經產生的案子"},{"start":8027.031,"end":8048.537,"text":"目前聯合機場的部分是還沒有但是可能媒體說有啦媒體說至少已經有兩件跟刑事相關的案子有關那最後因為還在審理過程當中那我們也是特別關注那我們希望這事情都很快能夠落幕因為其實現在美醫這邊也開始準備要進入和談的階段"},{"start":8049.757,"end":8079.017,"text":"那到底後續會怎麼樣子我們也持續的關注那麼希望我們相關的單位能夠把這部分把它給落實下來因為媒體說已經有刑事案件那我們就請你們特別的關注因為還在審理過程當中那兩件事因為是檢舉告發不是聯合稽查的理解相關的案子我們都一定考量消防處這邊有沒有消費者跟你們投訴我們目前看申訴系統大概是四件"},{"start":8079.957,"end":8096.949,"text":"有嗎?那請妥善的處理啦那針對這部分因為我覺得這問題目前坊間感覺很關注但是實際的問題也許並沒有那麼嚴重謝謝你們我接下來想請一下經濟部工部長還有中油的方董事長"},{"start":8103.431,"end":8128.701,"text":"政委好謝部長因為剛剛請他們三個相關的一個單位來說就表示現在這問題大概有多嚴重其實實際上進入公平會跟我們法務相關單位的可能還沒那麼嚴重可是消費者的感覺是不一樣的那我們今天看到經濟部這邊的一個報告的時候也很清楚提到我們在總供應量這邊是沒有問題的對不對總供應量這邊沒有問題"},{"start":8132.543,"end":8161.004,"text":"然後針對那個就是提到總量夠然後可以調度也有替代來源基本上這些東西大概都沒有問題但也特別提到說我們讓那個世青這邊先增產之後然後就是產發署這邊也跟我們相關的這些20家塑膠工廠都已經有做一個聯繫我覺得很好啦我們用最快的速度去產生這個問題那為什麼我要特別提到說總量上感覺是夠的經濟部這邊"},{"start":8161.904,"end":8187.385,"text":"總量管購消費者卻覺得確實有一些價格上的波動有些地方講三成有些地方講到五成這可能就是兩個很重要的問題因為從整個原料到消費者手上它有很多一個整個產業鏈的問題當中可能還會有很多預期心理的問題消費者的預期心理或者中盤商的預期心理都不一樣都會產生這相關的部分"},{"start":8187.825,"end":8202.344,"text":"所以我覺得經濟部在做這步過程當中的時候可能也需要有更多的一個說明跟溝通讓消費者真的不要擔心是是是所以我們會直接跟商圈市場端因為"},{"start":8203.425,"end":8223.181,"text":"家用的消費者他現在是比較不缺啦那現在就是說商圈的還有市場端的因為他們要客戶使用他們可能要比較多一點那我們就直接跟他們溝通理解好不好因為這過程當中我發現部長有特別提到說我們增產之後就是平均每一個人一天可以用"},{"start":8224.062,"end":8245.405,"text":"10個塑膠袋你那時候講10個塑膠袋我聽到這個數字的時候在想說今天還好環境部彭部長沒有來不然他聽了可能就要哭了你知道嗎我在想說這件事情塑膠袋之亂這件事情的時候我覺得某一個部分對整個經濟部所掌管的產業當中的時候對整個循環經濟的部分我覺得也許是值得我們去"},{"start":8245.805,"end":8263.993,"text":"多做琢磨的一個部分我們會跟環境部還有那個商圈夜市來討論一個怎麼樣檢縮的一個機制或者是獎勵是 我覺得這個部分因為我覺得剛好就是坦白說台灣消費者之前對這部分可能沒有特別的"},{"start":8264.993,"end":8289.339,"text":"關注 因為這件事情讓大家覺得檢數的問題然後怎麼樣子能夠重複使用的一個問題或者是整個循環經濟產業鏈把它給落實下來我覺得都是一件很好的事情那我們也希望針對這事情當中的時候我們經濟部在思考的不只是說讓四清增產這樣子的一個事情來解決而是對於整個台灣的一個"},{"start":8291.616,"end":8317.842,"text":"更適切的一個適合台灣整個社會環境的一個產業也能夠有一些調整的一個動作在這裡頭完全贊成那這部分再請我們基部這邊再多做一個努力那我接下來我想請教一個部分就是因為在這個四清增產的過程當中我想請教一下部長你知不知道我們到2024年我們整個的乙烯的產能產"},{"start":8319.862,"end":8336.172,"text":"能大概總共有多少然後我們的實際產量有多少現在來講的話台塑大概是9萬噸然後現在中油的部分原來是6萬噸然後增加了一點點整體的產能我想以西的整體產能"},{"start":8337.233,"end":8348.261,"text":"就是十幾萬噸吧OK我這邊得到的數字就是針對石化工業同業工會他們所提供的數字這邊我們看到2024年的狀態我們產能跟實際的一個產量有35%的落差"},{"start":8355.026,"end":8368.744,"text":"那為什麼我會提到這個狀態就是說以目前台灣這相關的一個產能來說的時候其實是有空間去提高的那我在這邊會特別提到一個針對一個狀態就是說因為這次是讓那個世青這邊的時候先提"},{"start":8371.127,"end":8393.522,"text":"提高產量出來那我想請教針對新四清這個計畫因為要投入一千多億一千多億的一個狀態2024年行政院通過那我想關切一下這個案子目前情況怎麼樣子因為有很多相關的環保團體就是我剛才問到說我們碰到說外資亂的時候是不是能夠讓台灣的循環經濟做得更好"},{"start":8394.242,"end":8410.923,"text":"所以對於新四清這樣子的一個計畫的時候我們目前進行到哪裡然後是不是會如期往下推還是有可能修正的可能性我們就先請中央董事長OK好 請董事長回應謝謝委員 委員好"},{"start":8411.684,"end":8433.073,"text":"那麼新思卿這個案子就是剛剛委員所提到行政院在110年同意這個計畫往前推動但是它有一個前提就是要跟當地高雄市政府取得在檢探上的一個共識這部分我們跟高雄市政府自動溝通我們已經達成初步的共識"},{"start":8434.133,"end":8462.416,"text":"但是這個檢探的方式跟結果還是要經過設計完了以後經過環評的審查通過以後才會確立所以因此我們在這個案子目前推動就是在進行基本設計的過程中以及在環境調查的過程中所以跟剛剛市政府這邊已經達成共識了嗎還是還在溝通過程當中達成共識但是那個結果必須要經過基本設計完了以後才能確立"},{"start":8463.957,"end":8466.228,"text":"因為我想說因為現在我們本身的"},{"start":8467.534,"end":8467.614,"text":"好 謝謝好"},{"start":8497.866,"end":8513.598,"text":"謝謝政協 待會呂毅林委員質詢完畢後休息五分鐘請呂毅林委員因為他昨天有請假謝謝主席 請龔部長"},{"start":8526.155,"end":8542.161,"text":"部長辛苦了 業務繁忙但是今天的議題更加的重要因為美伊戰爭已經進入第六週那讓國際那個能源有劇烈的這個波動那這個很多原物料都暢漲了不只是我們石油"},{"start":8543.661,"end":8557.638,"text":"加油的時候會變貴包括是我們的每天的外食日用品還甚至於我們交通費用也都上漲了那現在我們石化原料原物料的這個缺乏讓塑膠袋供不應求但是部長一直在強調說沒有缺貨"},{"start":8560.101,"end":8564.383,"text":"台塑也在下個月就會供貨所以至少我們都可以都會沒有問題但是你一再昨天強調今天強調但是家樂福馬上就說每個人限量就是一組"},{"start":8575.606,"end":8602.112,"text":"剛剛有人回答說 塑膠袋不是民生用品這個不是限購的問題你沒有缺貨怎麼會限購這個塑膠袋也不是民心商品不用到限購的部分所以就是有缺貨才需要來掌控一下 平益這個市場所以才會限購對不對不是 包委員剛剛我們署長有說明了也跟加爾福有做溝通"},{"start":8603.092,"end":8608.159,"text":"了解那家福是講說基本上他們的庫存是夠的只是他很擔心說來的人搶會搶啊那搶了以後又退就是不太好我們希望是這樣子因為他還是給需要的人來使用"},{"start":8618.473,"end":8645.235,"text":"主席在這邊強調最重要是因為如果市場上的供需都能夠正常的話就不會有恐慌市場不會恐慌就不會有哄抬價格跟囤貨的情形這個就是要我們去查查那我們查查每次都留於形式而已等有查跟沒查一樣都是說你把個案給我你把個案給我難道我們自己都沒有工具跟手段去查核嗎剛剛也有人提到啊"},{"start":8645.995,"end":8671.442,"text":"競銷的發票就可以去了解他到底有沒有囤貨的現象甚至在發票裡面就可以顯像出來有沒有抬高物價而且美伊戰爭二月份開戰到現在四月份了三月份所有的物價都上漲了30%到50%這就有沒有這個聯台烘台或者漲價的情形那部長你也說有的有漲有的沒有漲那為什麼有的不漲有的要漲呢"},{"start":8672.703,"end":8700.116,"text":"我想每一個廠商他的進料的來源可能不太一樣那他過去的庫存也不太一樣如果庫存比較充足的因為當初他進料的來源成本是比較低的那漲價的人表示說他囤貨就是為了漲價所以他不把市出囉那有一些他本來他的這個存貨他就比較少所以他在一段的時間裡面都要從上游進料那上游進料已經反映了所以他也要反映給下游所以"},{"start":8701.056,"end":8712.479,"text":"樣態會不太一樣所以為什麼要每一個個案都去了解才知道情況可是畢竟現在就是因為你貨供應的不足才有搶貨有搶貨的話這價格上才會有這個選數不一樣畢竟現在價錢就是漲啦對所以我們從源頭增加這個5500噸"},{"start":8722.661,"end":8726.704,"text":"就是這個道理你年頭增加的價格跟佔錢是一樣的嗎跟二月份的價格是一樣嗎我們這一批貨要平價平價所以說佔錢一樣不像佔貨的價格沒有辦法完全一模一樣但是會比現在的那你供應給台塑的價格跟佔錢一樣嗎會平價都是平價所以台塑出來的價格給我們下游廠商也不能漲價也要平價也會平價沒有錯"},{"start":8751.34,"end":8759.466,"text":"所以這就是我們的一個評議市場價格的一個工具跟手段所以現在尤其是說像石油來講的話我們的儲存量安全量部長講說150天嘛但是我們石油管理法"},{"start":8767.672,"end":8783.277,"text":"現在管理法140幾天了那我們私有的管理法裡面是90天那還有部分的空間那本席在這邊是說可不可以我們去評估估算一下可不可以釋出一些儲油來做一下我們市場評議價格的一個方式"},{"start":8785.38,"end":8810.107,"text":"因為現在我們油價是有一個公式但是我們大部分都是事實上是中油在吸收了因為亞林最低價中油已經吸收75%了對所以我會這麼提就是說中油我們油價它已經吸收75%那我們市場包括現在原物料高漲的情形之下你說不缺貨但是原物料還是在漲這就很奇怪了缺貨才會漲結果不缺貨也還是漲所以說"},{"start":8812.148,"end":8829.566,"text":"如果去平易市場的價格我們是不是可以釋出一些我們的這個儲油呢報告委員那個油的部分汽油 汽柴油的部分是一部分那那個原物料是清油是石油腦的部分那個是兩邊是有一點點不一樣"},{"start":8830.327,"end":8845.406,"text":"那我剛剛講的那個一百四十幾天是汽柴油的一個部分是那椅膝的部分那個石油尿 那個石油尿那原油呢那我們現在就是用平價原油的儲量夠嗎原油是OK的啊那個是汽柴油的部分大概有多少天呢"},{"start":8846.207,"end":8868.362,"text":"不是 汽柴油的部分那個就是有140幾天啊那個 現在就是說那個乙烯上油這個說叫氫油或叫石油腦那個部分我們用評價的方式供應給這個 評價 注意評價評價就不會抬高物價 這很重要那接下來本席想請教的是說那個我們的原油裡面有提煉出個瀝青對不對"},{"start":8869.342,"end":8897.6,"text":"那力清剛剛統計的話是沒有缺貨嗎可以到五月底五月底但是本身要給部長一個個案我們桃園力清是缺料的因為現在力清的最主要就是我們道路工程上最需要的原料現在缺貨的話我們道路的拓寬工程都會被延宕所以請部長去了解一下我們桃園有六家力清的供應商到今天早上我問了"},{"start":8898.36,"end":8926.276,"text":"還是缺貨還是缺貨所以我們很多道路工程本身爭取的這個龍池路啊第一級工程第二級工程工期啊第二級工程就放下來了沒辦法鋪了那不可能去做鋼性路面啊鋼性路面是水泥混凝土的吧可是鋼性路面不好啊草雜積水等等問題都不好還是要用瀝青的嘛所以這方面部長可以去幫我們了解嗎好 我們來了解好 那"},{"start":8927.136,"end":8943.753,"text":"部長這方面的話本席因為現在原物料都高漲大家不管是產業也好民眾生活開銷都要增加的部分那去年的部分也是有原物料各方面的漲價所以我們"},{"start":8944.975,"end":8964.412,"text":"在5月份马上就要报税了但是报税的期间去年是有延了一个月的时间那减轻到产业跟民众的经济压力那可不可以请部长也跟财政部这边做个讨论可不可以比较去年让我们报税的时间延后到6月30号呢"},{"start":8965.412,"end":8986.47,"text":"幫委員 委員的意見我們會轉達不過跟委員補充一下就是說上個月的這個物價上漲率大概是1.2%啦所以還算平穩啦不過委員的意見我們還是會轉達在幫我們轉達啦因為大家這個剛剛一直提到就是市場我們要去評議這個價格"},{"start":8988.311,"end":9014.007,"text":"他們會恐慌才會去搶購搶購就會缺貨缺貨又有囤積的情形所以這市場價格的話我們希望不管是公平會陳主委也要注意我們的產發署這邊對產業上面有沒有囤貨的情形在我們競銷發表都可以知道所以我們經濟部這邊再回去討論一下如何去平抑市場價格跟我們的所有的物料好不好好 謝謝"},{"start":9016.752,"end":9020.478,"text":"好 謝謝俞運委員我們休息五分鐘"},{"start":9297.213,"end":9299.019,"text":"MING PAO CANADA // MING PAO TORONTO"},{"start":9328.951,"end":9332.644,"text":"好 会议继续请邱志伟委员咨询"},{"start":9350.572,"end":9379.898,"text":"好謝謝主席有請現在是姜市長請姜市長請姜市長長髮署邱署長邱署長委員好這個請教第一個問題你大概有沒有印象你一天使用多少塑膠袋這時間很寶貴報告委員因為各大商圈還有市場我是問您"},{"start":9381.707,"end":9409.864,"text":"我是問你一天使用多少塑膠袋我一天大概有時候用不到一個那那個邱市長我一個禮拜大概用兩頂多兩個現在供應量是多少你知道嗎一個人啊一週有30個塑膠袋以上那兩位因為是女性跟男性你們生活習慣都不會使用塑膠袋包括我本人我都不使用塑膠袋這一波的這個從你們報告來看啊"},{"start":9411.992,"end":9439.202,"text":"這一波的這個原物料的上漲主要是這個石化的乙烯原料從2月份開始漲了100%對不對所以乙烯原料上漲只會影響整個供應鏈的供需的問題因為要上漲很合理他可能就會減產嘛你越生產越多他越賠的越多對不對所以從這個情況來看啊"},{"start":9442.696,"end":9467.844,"text":"這個日本跟韓國有沒有跟台灣有類似的狀況有沒有去了解一下這是全世界都面臨乙烯原料上漲上漲五度也一樣那日本韓國有沒有發生類似的狀況就我所知韓國也有垃圾袋短缺的問題就垃圾袋嘛那一般生活的這些使用塑膠袋沒有嘛日本沒有嘛"},{"start":9468.871,"end":9496.061,"text":"一樣是原物料上漲 以及原料上漲為甚麼台灣出現這個問題 來接著請這個 今天所有列席的單位包括公民會 保護部 消保會請稱出位行政院消保處請消保處你們的報告啊 我全部都看過來 你們報告都寫得很清楚結果是怎麼樣"},{"start":9497.045,"end":9511.978,"text":"我想請問第一個經濟部你們調查結果有沒有囤積違法的狀況我們是成立這個聯合稽查小組有聯合稽查小組去查但是我們查的結果如何呢"},{"start":9513.38,"end":9539.161,"text":"那你要掌握是署長還是誰這個是誰召集人法務部跟公平會在做查我沒有派員那你了解經濟部主管機關你們了解有沒有違法的狀況或者囤積的情勢目前是沒有查到來公平會代理主委當然就聯合囤貨聯合拒絕出貨部分我們是沒有查到沒有查到好法務部"},{"start":9542.11,"end":9566.043,"text":"有沒有查有違法的狀況 囤積的情形有沒有目前聯合機場的部分是沒有發現 但是各地檢署還有還在查目前你們掌握法務部掌握是沒有違法的情勢 也沒有囤積的狀況來另外消保會 消保署報告委員我們也是聯機小組的議員 那目前情況跟剛剛一樣目前沒有查到特別的情況 最後農業部"},{"start":9569.677,"end":9594.702,"text":"農業部有關的包材的部分那基本上他們反映的是價格上漲但是他們本身還是照原來預定的這些期程去購買那並沒有跡象限制所以我整理出你們調查的這個的項目調查的這個狀況那調查的結果全部都五個單位全部說沒有違法的情勢也沒有不法的情勢也沒有囤積的情勢那到底這個在亂什麼到底在亂什麼"},{"start":9601.28,"end":9621.625,"text":"這個整個供應鏈啊當然很非常清楚這個中油啊中油今天有沒有代表來董事長你中油以西市經濟部協調你中油那個事情要要提早對不對好你4月份會增加1.9萬噸從6萬變成7.95月份再加1.1萬噸"},{"start":9629.218,"end":9647.432,"text":"到90萬噸對不對到9萬噸9萬噸9萬噸那你以息會不會因為增產你也了解錢算不因為原物料上漲100%對不對那因為政策需要經濟部協調你要增加產量"},{"start":9649.604,"end":9667.95,"text":"這從公司的盈虧來看會了解嗎跟委員報告我們乙烯的跟下游客戶的價格是按照契約的計價公司去計算你們報告也說平價供應平價的乙烯你的價格是受到一定的限制是1.9萬噸的增產問你結果你的增產會不會造成公司的虧損"},{"start":9680.014,"end":9688.86,"text":"呃不會啦應該不至於你平價的話你增加平價意思我理解應當就是價格有控制對不對那你原物料你以前原物料是上了100%但是你賠錢但是為了"},{"start":9693.317,"end":9714.41,"text":"這個要解決問題當然我們必須要接受對不對就是我跟委員報告就是主要是增產的部分大部分都是按照契約的價格去計算是不是增產之後就可以滿足國內中下游的這個需求是是是那另外據於其的部分這個經濟部也協調台塑台塑也增產了那台塑有違法嗎我覺得他配合政府的政策"},{"start":9723.561,"end":9746.256,"text":"可以說廖局是行善的為了要解決問題他配合經濟部的政策去供應去增加他的這個供應量他哪裡違法法務部有違法嗎因為是個案的部分可能廖局那邊有立一個案子在這個你從常識來判斷"},{"start":9749.919,"end":9777.976,"text":"這個原物料上漲一般合理的狀況就是適度的減產不影響到供需的狀況 對不對所以你們必須要查明 勿枉勿重不要說這個為台灣經濟發展貢獻很大的一個台灣知名的企業會受到這種 我配合政策 還要被查"},{"start":9779.414,"end":9801.945,"text":"我個人覺得要好好查清楚不要對台樹誤解或者造成對他們的傷害另外今天將次長來我覺得你可以用次長的身份各位請先回座 次長我建議你可以用次長的身份去一趟日本"},{"start":9803.24,"end":9820.12,"text":"不會所有人都可以去日本嗎?我希望你去見一下日本的經產省就CPTPP的議題,你要主帥要親身啊也許秘魯你去不了,智利你去不了,我可以幫你去"},{"start":9822.216,"end":9848.313,"text":"但國內你到這個東南亞你越南可以去吧我們劉仕中大使也在那邊同志運到新加坡你也可以去吧你要前線作戰我們跟新加坡談得怎麼樣我們跟越南談得怎麼樣汶蘭你們也要去啊你要親自去他們才有壓力才有動力我們才能掌握如果你不去我就請所有大使回來"},{"start":9851.138,"end":9875.317,"text":"報告委員我們非常關注CPTPP的執行進展像我前年有去秘魯我們也跟秘魯的相關我是上個月去你前年這個已經實況環境轉變太大你剛剛指示的其他的國家我會盡力的去安排我覺得利用這個關鍵時候年底就要召開這個部長會議今年是越南市輪值主席國"},{"start":9877.481,"end":9905.271,"text":"這個關鍵年 機遇年他相對有機會成立台灣的陸會工作小組往後就是馬來西亞可能就是這個到英國可能是四年之後的事情所以今年如果不好好把握你知道我2021是我召開記者會呼籲經濟部要台灣要趕快申請加入CPTPP結果第二天老共跑去申請"},{"start":9908.154,"end":9929.299,"text":"我是要你們趕快動作要快一點 積極一點 全力投入一點所以如果你們再沒有太積極的話我會把所有的這個大使 全部都找回來就十二個國家來報告這個說明跟駐在國他們的這個談判情形跟接洽狀況好 以上謝謝委員"},{"start":9939.601,"end":9958.125,"text":"請羅志強委員質詢有請部長 經濟部長請江次長 部長請假請次委員好"},{"start":9969.56,"end":9990.365,"text":"市長好 受中東戰事影響 能源價格飆漲 通膨壓力也加劇那許多產業跟民生開始陸續受到衝擊我們大概3月下旬起 就開始出現塑膠袋的價格上漲 通路出現缺貨那小販跟商家首當其衝 那外界稱它為塑膠袋之亂"},{"start":9991.405,"end":10011.418,"text":"那一直到4月7號經濟部邀全國30個商圈理事長開會都還有零售缺貨訂不到塑膠袋的狀況也有商家說價格仍然上漲那特別中南部缺塑膠袋比較嚴重那供應商擴價仍是空的那我要請教次長經濟部提出增加了5000噸"},{"start":10012.839,"end":10021.498,"text":"以稀製成塑膠袋的平價專案也說跟通路有溝通那請問大概什麼時候可以解決目前的所謂的塑膠袋之亂呢"},{"start":10022.609,"end":10043.637,"text":"跟委員報告部長有親自跟這個30個商圈的代表做意見的交流其中呢嘉義有特別的表達他們有缺塑膠袋但是我們到昨天已經確認嘉義的部分所有通路商塑膠袋都有的那經濟部呢另外會針對這個塑膠袋會有個平穩的機制所以我們會"},{"start":10048.184,"end":10073.745,"text":"會提供5000噸的乙烯給我們台塑預計台塑明天就可以出貨接續而且台塑也是答應是以平價的方式提供在下游的廠商所以我們希望塑膠袋的供應量以後每天可以增加大概12.5億個"},{"start":10076.428,"end":10085.35,"text":"好 那我想請教次長你覺得這次如果檢討起來出現這個塑膠袋之亂那最主要原因是什麼大概哪些因素"},{"start":10086.155,"end":10111.494,"text":"我想有可能有很多的原因一方面可能是有這些民眾有這樣的訊息他們就會增加平常可能買一個那因為有這樣的訊息他可能就會去搶購有訊息端的造成的一個大的搶購可能這也是原因之一對那外面說跟現在中東戰事有關係嗎"},{"start":10113.288,"end":10127.458,"text":"因為中東的部分還是我們主要進口的這些來源所以它在價格的部分是有影響的所以這是要跟經濟部說一下就是說現在中東的戰事坦白講還相當隱晦不明"},{"start":10128.959,"end":10158.187,"text":"那之前才昨天說停戰啊今天好像又出現變數那所以相關的不管是油價乃至於相關的原物料的價格的上漲的波動那對台灣的民生的影響這點希望經濟部能夠多加掌握是我們每天都密切觀察我們每天經濟部都會召開能源因應的會議每天召開好那我們請那個公平會的代主委還有我們法務部請陳主委還有法務部"},{"start":10161.189,"end":10183.957,"text":"那想請教一下那我最擔心的問題就是亂象發生並不是單純國際這種不可控的因素剛剛前面有講到經濟部有講到有囤貨台價聯合行為的助長趁機謀利這些問題那3月底時這經濟部的產發署長邱求慧就說有些中盤商經銷商延緩出貨操作價格"},{"start":10185.177,"end":10203.245,"text":"那上週是行政院說檢察署跟公平會針對民生跟犯罪聯合行為有啟動調查那我想請教目前調查情況如何各位報告一下那個塑膠袋的部分我們除了配合法務部的聯合稽查小組去調查以外我們自己本身也立案調查那目前已經查了17家廠商"},{"start":10204.181,"end":10221.736,"text":"那當然因為受到這個戰爭 原物料漲漲問題 那供給還有價格部分 價格是有上漲那供給的部分可能要做一些調整但是就聯合行為 聯合囤貨這部分 我們目前沒有查到有所謂的聯合情況但是我們都持續有在密切的觀察那就麻煩公平會再盯緊一點 是是是 以上 謝謝請郭益勤委員質詢"},{"start":10237.247,"end":10265.04,"text":"好謝謝主席 還有有請農業部部長請陳部長好部長早安我今天還是要先關心一下這個7月份即將上路的動物用藥的一個新制的問題我想這陣子大家應該都說到這個很多的市主跟這個獸醫師他們在一線的狀況那我想這個7月我們即將上路這個新制但是問題是我們到底落地的配套有沒有足夠"},{"start":10265.74,"end":10282.372,"text":"如果不足夠的話其實這個部分7月上路會不會太過緊急我們現在爬梳一下整個所有的包含這次的一個改革的一個制度的時間順序我想這個是從2012年這個大型動物用藥那我要"},{"start":10283.553,"end":10302.304,"text":"事件的一個爆發我想當時不只是民眾受害其實還影響了大概將近超過200家的這個動物醫院那後來在2013年其實我們有在這個藥事法這個修法但是很遺憾就是沒有過所以就改走這個折衷的一個辦法那一直用這個暫停的一個清單一路用到現在我想這個時間順序應該沒有錯對不對對"},{"start":10304.525,"end":10330.298,"text":"好那但是問題是我肯定就是這個管理人用的一個藥物的一個流向提升這個用藥的安全這個政策這個方向當然是對的這個沒有錯但是問題是很多的一線我剛剛講了一線的獸醫師跟很多的飼主他們現在開始擔心因為其實台灣的動物用藥的一個市場其實沒有那麼大的一個規模所以呢其實有很多的動物用藥用的是所謂的人用的一個藥物"},{"start":10330.658,"end":10344.63,"text":"那麼長期以來在一線的這些臨床的這個獸醫師他們其實在這個部分的用藥的掌握其實他們也具有這個專業的一個水準但是問題就在於這段時間到7月上路我只剩下不到三個月的一個時間重點是"},{"start":10346.511,"end":10367.365,"text":"要不要管不是要不要管的問題而是未來我的小朋友我的毛小孩的命能不能夠救得到這個才是最大的一個問題的所在那我想這也是最近大家一直在就是在這個部分的一個爭議點那畫面當中看到的這個偶然是在我的辦公室那導輝是在我們家我自己身為五毛的一個家長"},{"start":10368.246,"end":10384.279,"text":"其實我個人在光今年的二月份我們家這兩隻貓不管是住院也好 治療也好或者是打針也好 開刀也好其實我都經歷過這樣子的一個四組心就懸在那裡的這樣子的一個恐慌那我想要問的是"},{"start":10386.648,"end":10394.134,"text":"將來這個7月上路之後我的第一線急救的用藥能不能夠及時取得如果我還要獸醫師開藥單我要四組自己到藥局去把藥找回來請問這中間的時程如果被耽擱了我的動物因為敗血症只要有醫案就好了請問這個要誰負責再來四組的"},{"start":10409.085,"end":10430.322,"text":"所有的增加的一個成本誰來負責再來為什麼我們的獸醫師他沒有用藥的一個自主決定這是我今天想要提出的一個這樣子的一個問題如果在夜間跟緊急用藥該怎麼辦不要講別的我住在算蛋黃就是中山區跟大安區的交界我們家附近的一個藥局大概就是晚上8點半就已經關門"},{"start":10431.303,"end":10451.911,"text":"如果我拿著藥單 我要急著救命我的小孩 我的毛小孩其實已經躺在醫院了他有可能因為帶血症咧那請問這個部分誰來負責好 那現在呢其實我們之前也跟這個房間署副署長其實我們也在我辦公室已經有討論到這樣子的一個問題如果7月份上路非常的倉促再接卡稱"},{"start":10456.275,"end":10467.311,"text":"那一磅 還剩兩個多月啦我真真是不知道列管當中的701項的藥物現在登記的只有216項是不到三成的這樣子的一個結果還有很多這個216項當中是重複的一個用藥這個劑型是差不多的"},{"start":10471.637,"end":10491.676,"text":"請問這400多項三個月之內有可能嗎藥商願意嗎如果他們沒有想要有登錄或者是想要主動來登錄的這樣子的一個意願的話請問我該怎麼辦有沒有考慮到現在我們都是用正面表列的一個方式喔那請問負面表列的方向我們可不可以來考量"},{"start":10492.216,"end":10520.115,"text":"那如果這樣子的一個政策7月份來講對大家來說都太倉促了我們家的毛小孩這個命懸一夕呀那請問到底誰能夠負責我講白了齁這個獸醫師我們是要用這個人用的藥物來救動物沒有錯吧現在我們很多的這個獸醫師我相信其實公視農業部我們好多的獸醫師有資格的獸醫師都在這個地方再來藥師他必須依法要把關人用的一個藥物好再來"},{"start":10522.777,"end":10538.472,"text":"誰管人用的藥物 衛福部管再來 問題是誰管動物的藥物 我們農業部管好了 四個全部都分出去但中間產生了很大的一個空窗請問這個空窗誰來補 市主來補嗎市主已經是全額在支付所謂的這個"},{"start":10539.753,"end":10559.028,"text":"毛小孩 我們的全台灣總共340萬隻的毛小孩他要全額支付他的醫療的費用那請問這增加的成本 中車勞動的成本可能拿不到藥的成本 請問這個部分誰要來負責 請部長告訴我7月份上路會不會太倉促"},{"start":10560.083,"end":10581.56,"text":"第一個我想先謝謝委員對於寵物的這些用藥的一個關心那現在外界在爭執的其實是在藥物的一個管理可是以農業部來講其實我們更重要的要守護的就是我們的寵物的生命權跟他的醫療的權利這是重中之重這是我們的政策"},{"start":10582.12,"end":10599.931,"text":"那在這個政策之下才去討論我們用要怎麼樣去做一個有效的管理那我想之前的這些法預計在7月1號實施的這些法他之前定有他之前的一個背景但是在這一兩天我們跟衛福部其實已經有"},{"start":10600.899,"end":10619.787,"text":"越來越多的一個共識包括一些用藥的還包含氧氣對不對用藥的寄存可以到動物醫院但是我們不以這個為滿足我想我們現在以這個為基礎之下因為有很多負面表列的藥其實才是救命藥我們會持續的再去跟衛生部做一個溝通我想我們在這個基礎之下會再溝通那在"},{"start":10623.189,"end":10631.236,"text":"還是強調一點請問這個溝通我們4月10號會在房間署是不是要開一個會我想我們在房間署的內部會議就是做一個有效的溝通現在變成內部會議應該利害關係人的會議啦就是請問與會的會有誰我想有各個利害關係團體嘛獸醫師全聯會然後呢食藥署還有農業部所以本來是預計可以開放嘛我聽說連線上都取消了對不對"},{"start":10654.113,"end":10672.965,"text":"現在有開放視訊可以視訊我今天為什麼會提出這個問題因為我不希望這個七月倉促上路之後我們看到的是獸醫師在救命但問題是我的自主在跑藥局我想請委員放心我剛才強調就是宜蘿伊布里長一定要確保我們毛小孩寵物的用"},{"start":10673.365,"end":10688.978,"text":"生命權沒有達到這個目的的話我們不會清除害怕所以我最後問一句我最後問一句就好如果我的生命權有可能會出現風險出現破口出現空窗請問這樣子的一個制度可不可以分階段上路或者是延緩可不可以這個就在我們討論的範圍之內因為後續的是選項嗎"},{"start":10693.081,"end":10698.505,"text":"一定是一個選項後面呢我想衛福部跟我們有越來越多的一個共識那我們朝這個基礎之下再繼續的生命絕對不能有空窗現在我們的飼養犬貓的人口是越來越多我們的貓口跟犬口的數量是340萬隻啊這攸關多少的毛小孩的家庭包含我在內所以這個部分我們真的要"},{"start":10717.981,"end":10742.182,"text":"好好的商量好好的研議到最後我們真的配套能夠到90%再上路可以嗎可以嗎我剛才強調一點話沒有確保我們寵物的用醫療權跟生命權的話我不會輕易就啟動這樣一個機制了解好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝主席好謝謝7月要上路相關配套一定要完備好接下來請謝一鳳委員質詢"},{"start":10753.792,"end":10758.816,"text":"謝謝主席我想要請我們農業部的陳部長陳部長早安你知道嗎現在中東的衝突你上次跟我講說肥料不會缺不會缺也不會漲也不會漲對我們採用凍漲的對可是問題是你不知道他會什麼時候是不是"},{"start":10779.713,"end":10801.479,"text":"不知道怎樣 我說不知道他要打到什麼時候啊是不是過去評估是在八個禮拜以內嘛可是現在如果半年一年還有你即便說現在不會缺但是民眾的或者是農民的預期心理你怎麼樣子去解決"},{"start":10802.339,"end":10821.77,"text":"我分兩個部分其實我們農業部門針對肥料動漲確保農民用肥的一個優先權我們前COVID-19 111年的時候我們就持續動漲而且價差補貼到現在我知道然後中東戰爭的話我們會開更多的品項去滿足農民的需求問題是"},{"start":10823.391,"end":10837.972,"text":"你提到了COVID-19我們都記得在COVID-19的時候這一套系統就在做但是那時候就發生了民眾的預期心理那囤積了非常多的化肥"},{"start":10838.513,"end":10853.992,"text":"那也導致了那時候化肥是沒有辦法放久的嘛放久了會硬化等等那也導致了那時候後續產生了非常多的問題現在也是同樣的情況當政府宣布說"},{"start":10857.594,"end":10869.149,"text":"肥料是充足的那時候政府也宣布肥料充足啊但是農民的預期心理是沒有辦法控制的嘛對不對"},{"start":10871.287,"end":10897.539,"text":"農民對政府的信心不足尤其是現在當我們的塑膠袋發生了塑膠力不足的情況那也產生了有囤積然後沒有辦法有效的放到需要的店家手上在這樣子的情況下如果肥料也發生同樣的問題我想要請教的是怎麼處置"},{"start":10898.619,"end":10920.555,"text":"我跟委員報告其實在COVID-19那個肥料之亂的情況我有參與在裡面那我們也記取了那時候的一個時間序列的部分所以肥料凍帳因為當時農民要囤肥第一個怕肥料不夠第二個怕肥料漲價所以在這個之前其實在中東戰爭一爆發的時候其實我們就啟動了很多宣導"},{"start":10921.595,"end":10949.28,"text":"這第二個部分就是我們的農藥實名制在那個時候農藥實名制並沒有落實那現在農藥實名制落實了以後我們把這個後台跟台肥的公肥是對接的所以從肥料廠到農會或者是一般肥料行到農民他的所有的這些量我們都能夠掌握所以隨時可以了解哪個地方需要什麼樣的肥料我們供應到哪個農會系統那如果他有異常的時候我們就會去了解"},{"start":10950.14,"end":10965.039,"text":"這些農民本身所以那這樣子是不是有一點點變相的限制農民去購買我想我們並沒有去限制但是過去幾年來我們是民族的國家對我知道不能限制民眾農民購買肥料"},{"start":10968.143,"end":10987.16,"text":"我覺得不會限制農民購買肥料但是肥料他們用的過去的習慣不能說他要存明年的肥料那個部分我想我們會用溝通的方式跟農民那農民我想經過我們這幾個禮拜的溝通他們也了解其實我們"},{"start":10987.921,"end":11009.107,"text":"打包票肥料不漲他們就安心然後同時我們也滿足他及時的需求所以現在目前並沒有農民想要去囤積肥料因為囤積肥料有時候肥料囤積完了有失氣反而會造成結塊所以這個部分我想經過這麼多年的努力我想農民大概了解到我們農業部本身的一些作為"},{"start":11009.926,"end":11024.205,"text":"那你怎麼樣子確保基層的這個經銷商會不會就是利用這樣子訊息不對稱或者不熟悉這樣子實名制操作他如果變相大壽咧是不是"},{"start":11025.006,"end":11050.591,"text":"我想我們後台用組合的方式不是我們後台有供應到商系特別是一般的肥料行然後肥料行的實名制可以聯合農民的購肥如果說肥料行進貨的大於他出貨的那表示他有可能會有囤肥的部分那我們就會去了解所以我們透過這個機制現在是蠻平順的沒有這樣的一個方式"},{"start":11051.673,"end":11066.171,"text":"所以我是說當然你是說現在我是說你怎麼樣子就是說你都是用後台嘛是我說但是如果他已經就是變相的大售漲價這沒有辦法從後台了解啊你知道供貨"},{"start":11067.193,"end":11082.329,"text":"你是從供貨端嘛可是變相的漲價以及將這些成本然後導致於就是說就是讓農民的生產成本變高嘛然後售價沒有上漲的情況下那農民的收入就減少啦 對不對"},{"start":11083.01,"end":11112.242,"text":"我跟委員報告如果肥料隨便一般的肥料行隨便漲價的話農民就會反應那農民反應我們馬上知道那同樣的現在的肥料我們的吸收是百分之百吸收然後我們跟台肥來協助如果他漲價的時候我們就不供肥給他了肥料行如果漲價我就不供肥他就沒有辦法賣肥料所以這個部分我是不是能請教那個公平會主委"},{"start":11118.103,"end":11146.719,"text":"因為這涉及到的就是搭售嘛如果有搭售的情況那你怎麼樣子認定它是漲價因為你只要它變相的漲價那個部長已經說了啊它就不供肥給這個農業那個農藥的廠商啊是不是我跟委員報告一下搭售的重點可能不在於價格而是在於教育自由的剝奪啦所以有幾個前提就是你實施這個搭售本身的廠商在市場上是有獨佔力的或是具有相當市場力量"},{"start":11147.159,"end":11162.138,"text":"那等於說你脅迫一般民眾去買這個東西他必須同時購買別的東西那我們在乎的是說業者有沒有利用這樣的方式來排除市場的競爭至於說價格高低的跟大售之間的關係比較不是那麼直接了"},{"start":11162.518,"end":11185.236,"text":"所以如果變相的漲價以及導致於到時候那個市場上又面臨到像塑膠袋的這個問題的時候那當然你講的是後端啦我講的是源頭啦今天剛好部長在這裡啦所以我也順便請教他他說如果在搭收變相的漲價的時候他就不供貨給人"},{"start":11186.417,"end":11207.559,"text":"怎麼樣子你們在行政院這個機制底下能夠有效的抑制我們肥料就是說農民買不到肥料或者是肥料的價格變相的漲價那導致於農民的就是他們的收入變相的減少這個東西我們政府部門怎麼預防嘛 是不是"},{"start":11208.38,"end":11233.711,"text":"我跟委員說明因為肥料80%都是由台肥供應的那台肥供應本身就有一些價差的吸收了以後我們是把補助的價差提供給台肥不是給肥料行所以萬一某一個肥料行拿到台肥比較高的價錢賣的時候我們後台如果有反應我們馬上鎖住然後我們會讓農民引導到其他的肥料行"},{"start":11234.751,"end":11255.166,"text":"那這樣子肥料行就不敢輕易 因為他不是獨佔他在那個區域有很多的肥料行那每一個肥料行如果他漲了 農民可以跑到別的肥料行去如果那個區域的每個肥料行同步漲那就有可能涉及到聯合烘台價格的部分那公平匯的部分就可以去處理"},{"start":11256.257,"end":11278.135,"text":"好好謝謝啊我希望說肥料價格不要變相的漲價不要就是不要傷害農民的權利那也不要就是讓消費者的權益受到損害好不好我想委員對肥料這個價格一直蠻關切的我們也一直努力在做這方面的好謝謝啊我是不是再跟主席借幾分鐘請教一下江次長好謝謝兩位"},{"start":11286.594,"end":11296.126,"text":"市長好 你是OTN的副總代表嗎是我想要請問一下就是根據台美對等的協定2025年到2029年我們將要對美採購252億的電力設備"},{"start":11305.057,"end":11314.562,"text":"然後還有電網設備發電機儲能設備那我問你這樣子的設備是不是能夠跟我們現行的這個電網強韌計畫跟再生能源的併網計畫還有儲能建設的目標能夠銜接的上你在談判的過程當中有沒有涉及到這一塊跟委員報告我們在這個協議裡面所說的要"},{"start":11333.292,"end":11356.438,"text":"去採購的這個部分是必須要是主要是有關於這個現行的機組的部分而且他必須要經過公開招標的方式所以未來我們採購的所需要的這個品項絕對是符合我們所需要的所以也有辦法就是說跟目前我們設定的目標嗎"},{"start":11357.884,"end":11376.245,"text":"是有辦法嗎?對,我們的機組就是主要是採購電力的設備部分是在機組啦那主要是跟電廠的更新改善有關那電力的那個電網的部分只是很小的一部分那基本上還是我們國內自己在在就是這個這個沒有對外去採購的"},{"start":11377.225,"end":11395.402,"text":"所以這個部分跟那個對美的採購沒有涉及只是涉及原本的基礎的部分好謝謝喔那也希望說我們的江次長你也是OTN的副總代表那未來還有非常多的這些關稅談判的問題那也希望說能夠協助好不好謝謝"},{"start":11398.106,"end":11414.872,"text":"好謝謝謝一鳳委員那個也跟謝一鳳委員報告就是昨天我有請他們要交這個2521的一個採購的內容所以到時候再送到經委會來這樣子OK好那接下來有請這個張雅玲委員質詢謝謝主席有請部長"},{"start":11426.374,"end":11429.455,"text":"農業部部長對農業部陳部長部長好我想我今天最主要是要來關心我們這個人用藥品用於犬貓及非經濟動物之使用管理辦法那最主要就是說我想這個這件事情已經引發了各界的恐慌飼主 獸醫師 獸醫院還有我們的"},{"start":11449.184,"end":11476.55,"text":"野保團 野保的這個做野生動物急救的救傷單位他們其實都反映這樣子的規範可能會實質影響他們醫治動物的即時性跟彈性特別是我們野生動物的救傷其實都在荒郊野瓦里市區非常非常的遠所以這會影響他們第一時間去救治我們的野生動物以及會讓動物承受不必要的痛苦所以我知道就在防檢署明天就要來召開這個研析會議那這幾件"},{"start":11479.011,"end":11500.844,"text":"有三個問題我想要跟這個部長拜託就是說這一場研習會議是不是現在我們先把它設定來就是一個意見收集的諮詢會議因為畢竟現在實在有非常多的爭議如果我們可以先以大家的意見做收集來做原則的話我覺得大家會比較安心這件事情是不是可以請部長承諾呢"},{"start":11502.967,"end":11523.759,"text":"我們本來的定位就是在溝通跟意見的收集在那邊不會輕易的下任何的最後的決議好 謝謝 因為我想大家非常在乎就是部長的這一句話我想還要再補充一點就是以農業部的立場怎麼樣確保跟保護寵物的生命權跟那個醫療權"},{"start":11525.28,"end":11544.859,"text":"這是最重要的在這個前提之下怎麼樣去處理用藥的管理可是現在因為外界很多都一直在討論用藥的管理反而忽略了等於說透過用藥的管理來滿足這個我覺得應該是先確保在這個前提之下我們有沒有什麼樣的一個更好的作為"},{"start":11545.819,"end":11568.138,"text":"那我想前兩天我們跟廢物部其實已經有先做了一個溝通也有得到了一些進展但是我們會在這個進展的基礎之下再繼續的做一些更好的溝通我想部長這樣子的承諾對大家來說會稍微安心一下然後再接下來因為部長也有說會在剛之前的這個基礎之上再繼續討論那是不是有可能來邀請"},{"start":11570.8,"end":11595.923,"text":"包含是野生動物的救傷單位啦 動物園啦公立收容所 第一線的臨床試組 甚至是獸醫喔因為他們可能都會受到實際的影響所以我們是不是多開幾場座談會來收集這些不同的關係人的意見呢這部分是可以的嗎可以也是應該要這樣做的而且不只是一次性的這樣的一個溝通我希望說這個溝通跟意見的收集能夠更廣泛"},{"start":11596.63,"end":11623.823,"text":"了解 好那再接下來就是說因為其實我們也看了一下現在其實只有200多項有登記嘛那我們是不是也可以去清查就到底我們這些第一線的受醫啦他們最緊急最迫切的用藥是哪些然後還有最普遍就是四組常常的寵物會需要用到的藥又是哪些我們是不是可以清查起來然後再來比對說這些名單裡面到底哪些還不夠"},{"start":11626.144,"end":11648.237,"text":"怎麼樣來協助他們盡快的成為這個登記的部分這部分是可以做清查跟協助的部分嗎這個其實我們房間署也正在做701項跟現在的那個200多項其實真正只有100多項的品項144項我覺得這是正面表列那就藥品來講它就是一個藥只是它的管理有分為人醫跟寵物用藥"},{"start":11648.997,"end":11666.006,"text":"所以我們怎麼樣有更好的一個機制去盤點跟他的一些緊急的用藥 常用的用藥我覺得要分類不同的模式有不同的管理的方向好的 那就是拜託我們部長一定要做這個清查因為要清查我們才能夠更明確的"},{"start":11667.326,"end":11682.56,"text":"那再來就是說我現在也有聽到一個說法就是7月1號獸醫將無法購買管制藥品導致部分藥商已經不敢出貨給獸醫師但事實上呢依據管制藥品管理條例的第16條"},{"start":11684.381,"end":11706.651,"text":"送醫師本來就具有購買管制藥品的資格所以他的資格其實是沒有被取消的也就是說現在問題是政策還沒有上路但是謠言已經滿天飛了錯誤資訊已經開始失序了那這部分農業部會怎麼樣有沒有掌握那會不會怎麼樣來做澄清呢我想我們也有掌握特別是一些第一級第二級的管制醫療然後以現在其實"},{"start":11707.831,"end":11721.22,"text":"就受醫院來講他可以取得相關的一個登記證對受醫師來講他有取得使用執照的話那他就可以使用這個部分我想我們跟衛護部這邊已經有很好的一個共識那對於外界的誤解我想我們會在"},{"start":11722.917,"end":11737.024,"text":"適當的時間我想要積極的澄清因為我覺得這個真的會造成民間的恐慌我瞭解就是很直接的可能誤解的時候我們會第一時間那新的做法我想我們等有更好的共識我們也會對它說明"},{"start":11738.305,"end":11758.767,"text":"對 對於這件事情我希望因為我現在還沒有看到你們積極澄清這件事情但是民間已經在傳了我希望這一天兩天我們就要趕快來澄清這件事情積極的澄清那最後還是要強調這件事情其實不應該被簡化是藥師跟獸醫之間的專業分工獲利衝突那其實就是關乎動物健康而且更重要其實是公共衛生的一環"},{"start":11759.588,"end":11786.79,"text":"所以畢竟因為國際其實已經有這個One Health健康一體的概念所以就是說希望部長跟我們的防檢署大家在這樣子的視角之下去讓我們的動物還有第一線的獸醫師可以及時的取得一些醫療的資源讓他們可以正常運作 謝謝好 謝謝委員謝謝張委員那接下來有請王紅薇委員"},{"start":11788.82,"end":11790.321,"text":"謝謝主席我先請我們公平會有請公平會主席"},{"start":11816.257,"end":11821.441,"text":"我首先要先感謝我們這個召委今天安排的這個"},{"start":11823.342,"end":11839.351,"text":"專題報告因為這幾天其實大家關心非常非常多不過我想趁著今天我來關心另外一個也跟我們消費者關係極為密切而且也跟這一波物價會不會上漲的憂慮有關但是問題是它跟中東戰事根本無關的我們來看一下"},{"start":11846.134,"end":11871.719,"text":"我想现在很多都是在这个外送平台来点餐那么最近呢整个常用率还是用常用率自社会用常用率60%高达60%的Uber Eats它宣布了从7月21号起它要调高服务费而且调涨的比率高达2.5%到3%"},{"start":11874.48,"end":11892.189,"text":"然後另外有一個所謂的抽成天花板叫做35%如果知道國際上對於一個抽成上限像美國很多城市都只有15%我們這35%這個天花板比人家不知道高了多少"},{"start":11893.049,"end":11906.479,"text":"好所以現在問題來了我們最近一直在關心因為整個的油氣價格的上升可能造成我們的這些餐飲小吃業他們的成本提高對不對最近我們擔心的是擔心電價還好電價動漲"},{"start":11911.943,"end":11932.543,"text":"好 擔心的是這個天然氣 就是有桶裝瓦斯好 我們這個也由我們政府來動長這都是由我們政府單位國營事業來吸收這些的成本好 結果呢 跟這次中東戰事根本無關的這個因素跑過來了"},{"start":11934.11,"end":11952.811,"text":"突然從7月21號當然他們以所謂的外送專法來當作藉口提高了這個服務費那羊毛出在羊身上啊所以他最後的問題是第一個他調漲餐飲業的尤其很多我們的小吃業者的服務費"},{"start":11953.962,"end":11974.747,"text":"最後的代價它不是由餐飲業者自己來吸收就是由消費者來吸收所以我想請問我們公平會有沒有注意到這個問題這個問題有沒有注意到那如同公平會向來對這些議題的立場就是說如果外送平台它的漲價行為是涉及到聯合漲價"},{"start":11976.127,"end":11988.512,"text":"這個我們會介入那如果是個別的平台他基於不管他的理由是外送平台法等等他基於個別的成本考量要去做漲價的一個動作的話只要市場的競爭還存在原則上我們會觀察 我剛剛講啦他的常用率"},{"start":11992.453,"end":12001.077,"text":"一個Uber Eats跟Full Panda之前我們也在我們的努力之下沒有讓他們合併成功嘛他們的市占率高達六成到九成所以你今天說他們沒有聯合漲價行為可是問題是他的市占率如此之高"},{"start":12009.521,"end":12032.189,"text":"我跟委員報告一下上一個結合案我們是會禁止是因為結合以後市場會只剩下一家對所以會到達九成那目前假設以這個案子來看Uber Eats它本身漲價如果另外一家Foodpanda沒有漲那對我們來講就是競爭基本上還有存在當然我們並不是說這個一定會有競爭我們還是會持續去觀察那後續有沒有廠商聯合藉由這個機會聯合就把這個漲價價格才調伏到我覺得你的態度不對喔"},{"start":12036.531,"end":12055.71,"text":"我們來看下一頁 這個問題當時在總質詢的時候 憲隆界委員曾經問過卓榮泰院長因為大家都關心這次的中東的戰事 對於我們物價上漲的壓力所以卓院長說穩定物價優先 他果然 你們公平會是在裝碎呢 還是裝不懂"},{"start":12056.499,"end":12066.846,"text":"那也就是說現在已經可能萬物皆長 我們還好3月份雖然公布的CPI的這個消費物價指數是大概1.2%因為其實老實講很多人都在質疑這個數字啊3月份怎麼1.2%可是外食費漲幅是擴大 而且外食費是連續一直不停的在漲"},{"start":12079.255,"end":12098.533,"text":"所以如果說你高明會都沒有任何具體的作為按照主委剛才的回答我就擔心囉你的意思是說反正現在只有一家UberEats在漲然後呢現在Fupena沒有漲然後就看起來沒有什麼叫做聯合行為但是我已經講了因為這一家他已經在市佔率已經非常非常的高"},{"start":12099.614,"end":12121.8,"text":"那麼他確實有一個壟斷的行為在那邊而他這樣子一下 他是很大膽 一下調2.5%到3個百分點2.5個百分點到3個百分點他一定會帶動這些餐飲的這種物價的上升我覺得公平會真的不能夠在置身事外 你不是局外人另外因為那個蔡議員來了 我也趕快"},{"start":12125.781,"end":12147.397,"text":"來最後一題也是跟好外送平台有關的因為呢最近的訊息是我不曉得這個fulpanda有沒有那個已經提出已經送件這是東南亞最大的一個外送平台他要併購fulpandafulpanda在"},{"start":12148.217,"end":12162.476,"text":"去年的时候后来你们就是禁止他们结合就是因为他们的市占率当然主要来自于Uber Eats的关系他们两家市占率那现在Crab呢它的最大的股东又是"},{"start":12165.404,"end":12186.477,"text":"所以我想請問一下公民會在面對這一場這一個併購案裡面你們會不會特別的謹慎小心然後你們主要的關切的點在哪些地方我想這個案子跟前一個案子就關切的重點從公平法的角度是一樣不過剛才跟委員報告前一個案子結合以後市佔率達九成"},{"start":12187.097,"end":12207.825,"text":"那這個案子是另外一第三家來買一個第二家所以基本上短期內那個市場的結構是一樣但是委員這邊談到的換人經營背後的真正的股東這個部分我們會重視實質控制力的審查所以你在案件審查裡面我們也會去看它背後的股權結構是不是已經達到可以來控制這個整個市場所以大家外界會擔心這是不是偷了一幕嘛"},{"start":12208.365,"end":12214.351,"text":"看起來是另外一個包裝我們會注意這個問題好不好所以我覺得因為這些外送平台它關係我們太多消費者的權益所以不管它是漲服務費也好或者它這個新的必購案也好我希望公平會都能夠站在當然一個是產業發展另外一個消費者的權益非常非常的重要我們會注意"},{"start":12232.708,"end":12251.506,"text":"好不好 因為我們不希望說我們在去年所通過的外送平台我們為了要保障外送平台這些服務業者還有在消費者權益結果竟然變成他們可以任意漲價的一個藉口好不好是 委員 這個問題我們會關切我們有幾件事處理好 謝謝王宏威委員接下來有請蔡奕宇委員質詢"},{"start":12268.315,"end":12274.5,"text":"謝謝主席那我們是不是有請農業部陳部長跟公平會陳代理主委部長我昨天在嘉義有開一個協調會也不是協調會啦說明會那大概也是有請農業部來不過昨天沒有請公平會主要是在討論這個農業包採的一個問題"},{"start":12294.716,"end":12307.553,"text":"那農業包材就是因為這個美伊戰爭的這些影響所及大概就這些農業包材都普遍性的漲價而且漲大概都是30%甚至比較嚴重的起到50%"},{"start":12310.296,"end":12334.985,"text":"那昨天經濟部事實上也有派人來,經濟部說這個完療事實上不但沒減,而且現在還要加量就是說這個塑膠的完療都有加量,啊既然都有加量那當然這個有人民的一個預期心理,啊不然呢?普遍看起來啦,你如果說其他的行業,你如果說生活上我們可能一天不用塑膠沒關係,不然農業沒辦法"},{"start":12336.493,"end":12338.914,"text":"你的包材一定要用這些塑膠包材用這些塑膠包材如果沒有減量在供這個原料的話那這樣漲價這件事不合理啦所以我想要跟部長"},{"start":12354.122,"end":12359.248,"text":"跟這個代理主委說是不是我們要跟這一些專門在賣給這個農作賣給農友的這一些包材的廠商是不是要給他們稍微訂一下說要怎麼介紹的工具這樣來"},{"start":12371.048,"end":12385.187,"text":"第一個我跟委員說明就是說農業的包材從田徑的套袋到最後採收的這些塑膠袋或者是產品的這些外裝的塑膠袋或者是紙箱這個部分我想"},{"start":12385.828,"end":12403.467,"text":"我們都已經去確認它的漲幅但是每一個我們把它換成產品的時候它佔產品的比例大概是0.02到0.5之間所以相對的它對產品 今天說米好了米一包2公斤的200多塊"},{"start":12404.568,"end":12430.359,"text":"可是他的漲價需要在漲價台0.5毛而已所以相對的漲幅比較低所以我們也跟業者溝通用這個數據去跟他呈現所以他們也承諾他不漲價但是我們會確保他的量的供應的一個問題那量的供應我想經濟部也協助有成立一個媒合平台啦不 普通普通現在就說你如果說把那個外包裝你剛才說米的外包裝對不對那是外包裝喔"},{"start":12433.86,"end":12452.787,"text":"事實上整個農業生產的過程,以我們昨天講的那個絲瓜、菜龜我都從甜甜的套袋一直到最後產品這一系列的部分我們都會去算那一開始農民有時候會擔心說會不會棄價,所以他本身就會多訂"},{"start":12457.529,"end":12468.92,"text":"那多訂的時候他會先多囤嘛所以會造成一些假性的需求啦就是說他先放的啦這個能夠啦有時候變成是恐慌嘛過去買一份現在如果買五份買了比較多啦"},{"start":12472.723,"end":12494.115,"text":"所以我們有跟農民跟業者說明就是說這個東西可能是短時間的一個漲價你們不要去囤貨因為越囤的話那可能那些以後漲價的時候你反而更會吃虧啦所以我想我們第一個確保它的量的穩定跟供應這個是最重要的"},{"start":12494.835,"end":12499.939,"text":"對農業來說農業比較困難的就是它的成本漲價它是沒有辦法轉嫁給很難轉嫁給消費者因為農業基本上還是透過所謂的配換嘛還透過那個拍賣市場所以它是沒有辦法轉嫁所以農民是會完全吸收"},{"start":12517.433,"end":12535.045,"text":"這一些包材漲價後的一個狀況這對農民來說相對比較辛苦我希望保廉要去注意這點我了解 所以我們隨時去了解而且從必要的一些協助我們也會來處理那我也想請這個代理主委對於說針對農業的部分農業包材的部分漲價漲得這麼的可怕這件事是不是你要注意一下"},{"start":12543.831,"end":12558.18,"text":"各位委員報告有關塑膠製品的一些漲價情形目前我們都有密切在觀察那關於這個農業包材漲價的部分我們關切的重點可能還是在於有沒有聯合漲價這個部分但委員當然我當然可以理解委員很關切這個個別農民對於高價的問題"},{"start":12560.842,"end":12587.316,"text":"那這個部分從公平的角度公平會是一個事後執法機關我們調查證據來處理那解決農民短期內所面臨到這個因為供需臨時失衡的問題我覺得像產業主管機關他們透過一些產業的作為那個速度可能會比公平會要來得快包含這個農業部的積極的事實上公平會很多很簡單有時候你們只是一個你們一個了解基本上就可以稍微壓抑住一些比較不合理的一個漲價因為我們說實在的"},{"start":12591.518,"end":12616.816,"text":"戰爭從發生到現在 事實上對很多他在過去他是在銷庫存他事實上只要銷他的庫存 還沒有到需要漲價的程度可是事實上卻被漲價了 這件事我認為是不合理當然你們認為違法是在於有沒有聯合行為嘛 對不對不對 你們適度的去了解就可以壓抑一下他們現在這些不合理的漲價我們在每次跟業者了解的時候 我們都會提醒他們"},{"start":12617.236,"end":12622.061,"text":"就是不要違反公平法這個所謂的漲價 也不要任意的漲價事實上就我們了解應該還沒有嚴重到說要讓他們全部棄 棄 棄 棄因為外交都照常在出所以這個事情 公平會你們還是要角色稍微這個該棄的要棄一下 是是是好 那我再問一個針對我們還是針對我們農業部 這個陳部長這裡就是我"},{"start":12640.518,"end":12668.121,"text":"之前就有在關心就是這個林農國有林地的這個爛墾地續辦清理計畫那我們現在到明年的大概三月就會到期了那既然這個續辦清理但是很多這一些林地的農民他們在辦續辦清理的時候遇到實際的一個狀況就是說他們要去證明在民國在民國五十七五十八年後"},{"start":12670.183,"end":12687.461,"text":"58521就有在有在這個他們的這個林地這裡有去管理做林檢管理但是事實上咧我們現在說的這林地大概都是AQ就順的啦AQ就順的本來區域就比順比較多所以他們也沒有必要去把區域撤掉"},{"start":12688.281,"end":12692.965,"text":"我想部長也知道樹木把它砍伐掉對我們這個林地的一個保育就是錯誤的啊所以他們做低度管理就是說樹木會比較有孫子然後他們這樣就變成一個林下經濟那既然有這樣一個林下經濟對於我們整個國有林地的保護也都是正面的而且他們跟我們這個林務跟我們國家承租啊負擔租金"},{"start":12714.422,"end":12736.58,"text":"然後他們在做這個竹筍的這樣的一個管理我感覺這是證明的,但是現在卻一直說他沒有辦法去證明當時候有竹林因為他空拍起來就看得出來,不然就證明有竹林他現在要怎麼證明所以這個部分是不是能夠卓度的一個放寬"},{"start":12738.842,"end":12766.642,"text":"我跟威強報告就是說這些爛梗地的部分其實我一直希望從源頭的58527跟82721本身能夠做一個更有效的解決那第二個但是這個需要一點時間去做溝通我們已經在處理這個部分那你講的就是說有一些竹林的部分它還有混植一些樹木的部分從杭照圖看不出它是不是有經營那這個部分我想"},{"start":12767.483,"end":12792.543,"text":"如果有這樣的一個疑問的時候我們可以去現刊那現刊的話其實可以看得到他是不是有這個經營我當然沒有辦法去回推到58年的時候但是我覺得農民有一個習慣我滿被走貨的一直在做我不會是為了你來看才去做那那個土地的這些經營的樣態是可以判斷的啦那我想我會用這個方式請我們林保署這邊來"},{"start":12793.323,"end":12812.992,"text":"那部長事實上我們要講的就是說對這一些損農來 正正正的來說他那個叫做低度管理啦對啦你要說他那個大家管理到說有一個農場那不合理啦那也不符合我們對林地的一個保護我們就希望他樹木存在嘛樹木存在這麼有發達到他們我就去收集我覺得同意啦 就是說"},{"start":12814.453,"end":12840.468,"text":"竹林的經營不能用一般的農業經營的角度去看這個在限定判斷的時候我想我們同仁應該會那個拿捏應該會有一個標準可能喔 最近可能安排一下因為這個有時間限制他到明年的3月他的續班清理的一個這個租約就申請就結束了所以現在大家會急會趕所以我們可能趕快去協助他們"},{"start":12841.208,"end":12868.895,"text":"讓他們的租約可以繼續來維持這樣好不好了解 我想跟薇恩報告就是您之前也關心了很多郭爾林地或者是林場的部分都不能領天然災害嘛是我們現在已經把這個二三十年來沒有辦法解決的問題解決了就是郭爾林租地的話你只要保有三成的種樹的部分那其他的作物排除了一些波地有沒有這些超限利用的部分已經可以開放給天然災害的一個申請"},{"start":12872.756,"end":12896.08,"text":"這個也是你們當初那個那我們真的解決三四十年來沒辦法解決的一個問題沒有錯保證請按個讚謝謝好謝謝蔡委員那我們呢中午不休息延長開會時間至議程處理完畢接下來林楚英林楚英林楚英委員"},{"start":12897.425,"end":12912.822,"text":"賴世保 賴世保 賴世保委員林倩琦 林倩琦 林倩琦委員陳超明 陳超明 陳超明委員武麗華 武麗華 武麗華委員陳青龍 陳青龍 陳青龍委員接下來我們有請葉元芝委員質詢"},{"start":12930.604,"end":12956.972,"text":"主席好 麻煩請經濟部長麻煩請經濟部江次長委員好次長我是想來關心一下油價狀況雖然說美伊好像說要停火兩週但是現在市場上還是有很多不確定性因素包括和睦之海峽到底有沒有開放我在新聞裡面就看到很多不同的說法"},{"start":12957.492,"end":12984.193,"text":"有的是說沒有開放有的美國的副總統是說有開放這是第一個不確定第二個是就算開放了因為伊朗他說他要收過路費之前有講說要收過路費那收過路費就算開放我們經過那邊那我們的成本也是不是會提高那所以想要請教市長昨天部長有在立法院的時候講說因為有開放然後所以中油大概會有一個"},{"start":12985.615,"end":13001.068,"text":"兩萬桶的原油然後會準備要運來台灣然後那時候說是有四燒是不是四燒就是八百萬桶嘛那我想問一下這個運過來這個油價有跌嗎我可不可以請董事長回答董事長回答好了"},{"start":13004.515,"end":13026,"text":"昨天在議院這邊的說明是說假設這個海峽開放的時候那麼我們目前在珀斯灣裡面有一艘郵輪已經裝滿了原油那就可以出來那目前的情形看起來並沒有照預期的那麼順利我們詢問大概這些船都目前都還在觀望當中"},{"start":13027.62,"end":13033.014,"text":"到底這個海峽有沒有開大家要觀望所以大部分的船都還是在波斯灣裡面等待"},{"start":13034.178,"end":13054.106,"text":"那另外就是說提到就是四艘船那個是我們跟沙烏地所買的原油那麼轉從管縣輸送到鴻海那邊去裝船那麼這四艘船的話在那邊會從大概四月中裝完以後陸陸續續會從鴻海那邊出來到台灣過來"},{"start":13058.368,"end":13076.839,"text":"那麼並不是四月份四哨船而是說陸陸續續但最起碼就是有一件事情跟昨天部長的就講的不一樣啦可能說昨天是不是比較樂觀覺得如果開放的話會有一個兩百萬桶的原油可是現在看起來您剛剛是說沒有嗎沒有沒有基本上沒有差別昨天講是說假設這個海峽海峽的開放順利的話"},{"start":13080.692,"end":13109.216,"text":"那現在看起來就不順利嘛那現在不順利的話代表說下週的油價還是會持續漲嗎下週油價因為我本來是想問說如果有順利的話那油價一定會下來嘛今天國際上的很多原油的現貨是期貨都下跌了像美國的西德州的中級原油它的期貨已經創下2020年的最大跌幅啦那如果油價下來的話那下一週的油價要怎麼算"},{"start":13110.563,"end":13134.734,"text":"這部分還是要看明天的情形一整週的平均油價再來做7D3B的整個的檢討跟計算目前還很難講第二個就是說因為針對中東的油價因為有很多產油大國像阿聯、科威特他們的產油設施都已經被破壞了那現在中油在進口原油這塊有做什麼比較多元的採購嗎"},{"start":13136.235,"end":13156.209,"text":"是那個所謂那個沙烏地跟UAE阿聯這邊的他是有遭到一些破壞但是並沒有破壞的很嚴重所以他目前還是有生產還是有出口那當然對於其他的油源的部分公司也都在嘗試的譬如說在非洲"},{"start":13156.869,"end":13175.59,"text":"有沒有我們適合的油種另外澳洲也可以考慮或者是說在南美洲這邊的油我們也在考慮做接洽但是什麼時候大概什麼時候會考慮完我們要考慮說他有沒有足夠的量能夠賣出來你們在接洽中啦已經收到相關資訊了啦"},{"start":13176.431,"end":13191.777,"text":"但還沒有做出決定是不是因為我們對於它的油種我們要去測試這個油種是不是已經在進行當中就對了對都在進行當中董事長如果說油價有下跌我覺得你們要我是建議說趕快跟大家講"},{"start":13193.078,"end":13210.224,"text":"因為物價有僵固性有時候物價上去之後就不會再下來了那如果你可以預期之後的油價下來趕快跟大家講就會讓市場覺得說現在漲價不合理至少可以產生一種輿論制裁的作用所以油價有下跌一定要趕快跟大家講好 謝謝"},{"start":13211.789,"end":13229.088,"text":"好謝謝月圓之委員好那可能謝謝我先把今天整個所有委員那個發言的重點稍微summary一下那也請各部會有相關的就請提出規劃報告"},{"start":13230.169,"end":13255.415,"text":"然後送到我們經濟委員會來首先第一個的話就是請這個經濟部可能要協同這個不管是農業部不管是消保會消保處公平會等等在行政院的這個物價的一個穩定小組的話那我希望經濟部呢去規劃出一個民生物價動態的一個監控的一個數位系統的規劃"},{"start":13256.895,"end":13280.924,"text":"那我希望這個看經濟部的話呢這兩週內交出一個報告給我那也送到我們經濟委員會這邊來那第二個來講的話就是有關於健保安全金200億的一個規劃就是怎麼樣使用啊法源等等那個因為有委員也質詢了所以這個也請把它列出報告"},{"start":13281.804,"end":13307.734,"text":"一周内交出来然后的话呃农业部的话这些的补贴政策啦尤其在肥料这一块的话那可能也是交个报告就是说到底这一个补贴会到什么时候那如何把价格再稳定好那最后的话呢大概就是说呃整个在价格的一个上升吼那如何让他稳定价格也请各部会呢带回去思考"},{"start":13308.615,"end":13328.429,"text":"那最後的話就是針對各委員所提出來的這些不管是桃園的濾清的缺料還有這個不管是在交易地區的包裁等等所以這些地區性委員的一個需求也請各部會準備書面資料回覆給各委員以上是今天的會議"},{"start":13329.77,"end":13357.384,"text":"那么登记发言的委员除不在场外其余经已发言完毕寻答结束二委员陈超明林楚英陈青龙所提书面质询列入记录刊登公报三书面质询和未及答复部分请相关单位一周内以书面答复并复制本会委员令要求其限者从其锁定本日所列议程处理完均谢谢大家现在散会"},{"start":13399.216,"end":13399.297,"text":"谢谢观看"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}