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衛生福利部組織法衛生福利部兒少及家庭支持署的組織法衛生福利部長期照顧及社會發展署組織法衛生福利部中央健康保險署組織法國家醫療科技評估中心設置條例以及國家中醫研究院設置條例等"},{"start":1916.667,"end":1937.017,"text":"這個都是因應整個國民對衛生福利服務的一個期待整個擴大醫療科技評估技術發展應用跟中醫藥研究能力的相關法案一共六個主題稍後我們按照協商的通知順序排序來依序進行協商"},{"start":1937.617,"end":1944.205,"text":"那協商進行前我們先介紹道場的委員來跟機關代表道場的委員我們有盧憲一代表還有程昭芝委員盧憲一委員程昭芝委員范雲委員還有"},{"start":1956.618,"end":1980.877,"text":"有立法委員有立法委員那就是我最尊敬的所以我這樣繞過後覺得自己人這樣那還有機關代表很多耶來 也是選一個啦應該還是要製作文書衛生福利部石崇良部長還有好 有聽到那個您這個署長是周道 周什麼軍周道軍署長然後這位是誰"},{"start":1986.117,"end":1987.818,"text":"師長還有一個郭采龍還有祝劍芳師長還有蘇益璋師長還有蔡淑鳳師長"},{"start":2011.874,"end":2038.91,"text":"好啦 其餘的應邀列席的官員名單就列入公報紀錄啦司法院人事行政總署 監察院主祕全序部專委 內政部專委 財政部還有教育部 法務部 經濟部我就沒有一直叫你了 今天太多人了還有勞動部 文化部 國家發展委員會國家科技及技術委員會 公共工程委員會原住民委員會 主計總署"},{"start":2040.251,"end":2060.819,"text":"那應要列席的官員名單我們就列入公報記錄我們現在來進行逐案的進行協商啊協商的時候請參閱協商條文的對照表跟審查報告及淨富二讀提案的關係文書那與會的委員如果有修正動議或者機關有建議的內容的話也請提出書面印發現場來進行討論"},{"start":2063.92,"end":2081.967,"text":"那首先我們進行主題一的病案協商司法法制跟社會福利及未還兩委員會報告病案審查行政院函請審議的衛生福利部的組織法第二條 第五條 第八條的條文修正案還有 現在覺得怎麼樣"},{"start":2085.373,"end":2087.034,"text":"委員許宇珍等17人委員沈發費等18人"},{"start":2097.685,"end":2117.007,"text":"這提案我們就分別經115年3月13號第11屆五會期第三次院會還有第四次院會第五次院會的決定淨附二讀與相關提案我們就併案來做協商以上共四案在今天的併案協商裡面"},{"start":2121.775,"end":2135.059,"text":"那我再跟委員會報告跟聯席會報告審查會我們在1月19號審查完略審查的結果是第二條第五條第八條都是保留送院會來處理並決議須交由黨團來做協商來我們現在開始進行主條的協商就是衛福部組織法的一個修正案現在為第二條"},{"start":2150.37,"end":2172.44,"text":"在這裡修正動議一共19個版本還有兩個修正動議那台灣民眾黨團所提的修正動議還有委員范雲委員所提的修正動議都中19個版本"},{"start":2178.408,"end":2185.261,"text":"來 我們現在各位委員有什麼看法嗎 還是先我們先聽聽衛福部啦 好不好"},{"start":2186.906,"end":2214.955,"text":"那個 柏中你先看你們外務部的看法是怎樣好 跟召委還有個委員說明一下第二條的部分因為我們上次主要是還有一些婦女權益的部分要不要這個移到這個私啦所以呢最後的討論的結果是要從原本的社家屬移到私所以我們在"},{"start":2215.515,"end":2239.311,"text":"第二條的本部長理事項下特別寫出在第四款有婦女權益保障就是未來這個就是私的業務從屬的業務移到私所以那也經過跟范雲委員的討論之後那大家也都支持這樣那所以我們就修正了一個協商的建議條文就是第二條的部分"},{"start":2239.951,"end":2253.637,"text":"那麼本部長李夏烈四項那特別修訂第四款有婦女權益保障跟婦女福利服務然後後面就是這個現行我們有的"},{"start":2255.118,"end":2275.928,"text":"婦女權益保障婦女福利服務跟社會參與這個是新增那其他都是原本的這個文字略做修正而已這個是第一個修正的建議那第二個是有陳昭志委員提出要在第二條再新增一項"},{"start":2277.248,"end":2299.986,"text":"是有關於對於本法施行前這個原聘僱用資約聘僱人員的權益保障問題那這個我們也一直在跟委員溝通那麼按照我們總原額法那麼已經有相關的規定所以我們建議不在本條條文在另針一項以上的說明"},{"start":2301.243,"end":2325.681,"text":"好 謝謝部長的說明那 法務部啊 啊不不 那個衛福部啊現在就是第四款喔 第四款加婦女權益保障婦女的福利服務社會參與啊 跟那個性侵害 性騷擾 防治加一個級你知道齁 呃 陳昭志委員你現在有創一個第二項嗎"},{"start":2329.003,"end":2354.621,"text":"對不對 那請陳昭志委員你也自己來說明一下好不好我們就是在第二條 第二條的部分第二條你給第二項對 第一 那個第二項這個是我們非常強調的部分就是說對於現在 因為當年其中一個單位 譬如以健保署來看當年是改制過的從國營事業進入到這個變成公家機構那當時有"},{"start":2357.063,"end":2382.56,"text":"雖然沒有正式的公務員考試,他們也經過招考所以他們可能一直留在約聘、聘用、聘僱的狀況下那這個時候因為整個組織要進行不管是整病等等的時候這個時候他們的基層的工作人員尤其是資深,相對也是資深,也貢獻很久了應該要給予一個最基本的保障就是他們目前的職位、職等,然後他們相關的工作"},{"start":2383.46,"end":2397.688,"text":"基本上要剛剛我在事前你們溝通第七條的內容我知道你們拿第七條來討論這個組織法但是我還是要講說那個法律是這樣子法律是應該要有哪些不代表說"},{"start":2399.089,"end":2410.415,"text":"這個完整是應該哪些,不應該哪些,現在法律有這些也不代表它是完備的那我們希望我們能夠具體的進入趙執委員,你的問題我聽到,他的第二項就是說原來這裡的人,你要怎麼處理衛福部當然是公務機關,跟這裡不同,但是他的第二項衛福部看你們的陳昭志委員這樣的一個意見你們的看法,來"},{"start":2425.675,"end":2454.123,"text":"人事總署 趙委 人事總 副人事長吳仁志長來我跟趙委跟這個趙志偉報告啦我剛剛會前也有跟趙志偉報告那我們很感謝這個趙志偉對我們競技同仁這個照顧的心意啦那權益保障的部分在組織法上面的處理大概分兩軌啦因為趙委是法律人應該很清楚 就是"},{"start":2456.609,"end":2470.616,"text":"剛剛趙志偉提到的那個第一類的就是制度改變機關性質改變事業機構的移到行政機關或者行政機關的移到事業機構這個他們身份上是有重大的改變"},{"start":2471.616,"end":2490.777,"text":"那這樣的改變才會在組織法裡面落條文那其他的像一般的這個隨同業務移撥的人員就是在剛剛趙志偉提到我們剛剛報告的就是在總委員法第七條上面就是做一般性的規範就是"},{"start":2491.923,"end":2517.597,"text":"因為你原來是公務員轉到事業機構或者是這個事業機構轉到公務機關來他不能適用他那個新的機關的制度嘛所以當然要在法律上特別在組織法上面在做規範那要不然在一般在中央這個行政機關組織機制法他規定的事項其實沒有這個事項是啦 他的意思是說他現在頂接工作權的保障有沒有解套的方法"},{"start":2518.757,"end":2541.152,"text":"我剛剛是做一個建議啦就是說請衛福部寫一個附帶決議的稿讓趙志遠看看能不能就是現在是大家希望能夠保障這些同仁嘛那我相信衛福部也一定會做到啦只是如果更大家希望居住率更強一點讓衛福部可以做得更好那我們寫一個附帶決議"},{"start":2545.234,"end":2572.64,"text":"阿寫的具體一點啦好啦你謹慎啦因為陳昭志委員這個提案其實也是很有建設性啦我本來想說要入法有什麼困難困難為什麼不能入法沒有因為他剛剛那個婦人市長他其實有講得很清楚啦公務機關跟事業單位是不一樣但是怎麼樣去保障他這些人員的工作權過去有權利喔過去勞工局跟健保署那種有權利他們的組織法裡面有寫的喔好來他現在說有權利請再說明"},{"start":2575.5,"end":2599.15,"text":"權益就是我剛剛報告的就是他的性質不同就是事業機構的人轉到行政機關去或者是行政機關轉到事業機構來那當然他的適用的人事制度就完全是不同的那所以在這個裡面就會做特別的規範去做他的權益保障這樣好了,我聽好了,您先附帶決議先寫出來好不好先寫一下,先擬一下,讓陳昭智委員看一下"},{"start":2604.417,"end":2631.133,"text":"主席不好意思我還是覺得用入法你如果有什麼特例什麼處理你把你用負債決議把它處理掉我們通過你們自己要內部的使用的負債決議啊你若擔心什麼你反投什麼東西到底會這個入這個法有什麼困難嗎有什麼這些人都在貴單位裡面服務這麼久相對都資深啦貢獻很久了嘛聽到有啦來再說明我再說明一下啦這個真的很感謝趙哲元對我們同仁的這個愛護啦"},{"start":2632.634,"end":2648.733,"text":"那因為制度的邏輯是很清楚就剛剛講的制度的轉換會有這樣的規範那一般性的權益保障會在總約法第七條裡面也做一個完整的規範那我們之所以會有一些顧慮就是因為所有的"},{"start":2651.052,"end":2665.859,"text":"同性質機關的轉換在他的組織法裡面都沒有這樣的規定那如果在衛福部特別做這樣的規定那大家就會有特別的期待那這個是有額外的另外的"},{"start":2667.94,"end":2681.929,"text":"絕對的保障嘛那我剛才也在講說他有可能衍生一些爭議啦譬如說如果我們每一個同仁都覺得我這個是絕對的保障譬如說現在我們大家比較關注的像霸凌"},{"start":2683.222,"end":2708.108,"text":"性騷或者是酒駕這些如果有這樣的情形的同仁的話那中間就會有一些爭議就想說你們能不能請我離開那因為一般其他的機關這一類的人都沒有這樣的規範就會有一些誤解跟爭議出來那我們是覺得效果如果沒有不同"},{"start":2709.383,"end":2735.875,"text":"就讓整個法的體系越清楚是這樣不然你們先看看不然這條要保留不要第一條卡關先寫一個 呈召委員看一下對於原先這一些的這一些人的工作的一個保障早知先讓他們看看不然這條第一條的保留也沒意思 好不好來 接下來第五條"},{"start":2737.341,"end":2743.806,"text":"接下來我們第五條我剛剛第二條有一個修正動議可以簡單說明一下嗎不只台灣民眾黨還有泛民委員"},{"start":2759.918,"end":2771.688,"text":"主要是第四項就是加上婦女權益保障婦女福利服務那等於是提升原本的保護絲讓他可以成為一個兼顧婦女權益及保護"},{"start":2773.109,"end":2790.704,"text":"那為什麼要有這個提案那我先謝謝部長認同這個方向所以他已經直接放在他的協商參考條文中了雖然後面的文字有幾個不一樣但我覺得精神上是一致的所以可以接受那我很簡要的說明一下為什麼要有這個提案"},{"start":2791.405,"end":2809.939,"text":"因為從一年之內台大醫院就爆發好幾起醫生對病人的性侵性騷猥褻的案而且是好幾起可以看到婦女的福利權益相關的業務在衛福部整體裡面還是處於一個比較邊陲的地帶"},{"start":2811.92,"end":2840.677,"text":"那根據社家署的統計現行的婦女福利科其實只有7個元額那業務也只佔社家署的0.12%那在公益彩券的回饋金中比例只有佔6.81%所以這一次很高興部長認同我提出來的要提高婦女業務的層級所以從原本規劃是長照發展署下的一個組別提高到二級機關那是跟原有的保護司合併"},{"start":2841.797,"end":2862.623,"text":"那這邊也跟大家跟部長講一下我知道部的關於私的名稱比較傾向於婦女發展及保護私那這邊很多婦團的朋友希望能夠優先考慮婦女權益及保護私因為如果沒有權益的話保護會做不好如果只強調婦女發展"},{"start":2864.363,"end":2883.931,"text":"好像婦女好像能力很差需要發展所以這邊也讓部長參考那最重要的是婦女團體認為不是只有提升層級人力跟預算一定要提升那希望能夠增設兩到三個科特別是要強調有政策研究的量能"},{"start":2884.651,"end":2907.79,"text":"所以那大家非常的擔心所以希望我有提出兩個附帶決議就是提升人力預算另外一個也是希望修法通過後衛福部可以邀請這些長期跟衛福部有一些合作或者是監督的婦女團體那共同討論未來的組織設計那這部分剛剛衛福部有一些修正我想我就到附帶決議再講那最後"},{"start":2910.072,"end":2932.005,"text":"就是也有婦團擔心說跟保護私放在一起好像婦女會被弱化所以也希望在組織的設計上要明確區隔就是婦女權益跟保護她的編制跟預算要獨立出來那不會讓大家覺得你這個私就只處理一個性別暴力以上說明 謝謝"},{"start":2932.945,"end":2956.009,"text":"好 謝謝范雲委員范雲委員所提的修正動議其實在衛福部第四款裡面對於整個婦女保障跟婦女福利的部分也把它放進去那其他的部分是不是請部長再說明一下有關剛剛謝謝范雲委員的這個提案附帶決議這個我們都朝這個方向來努力好 沒有問題好 謝謝這樣現在"},{"start":2963.042,"end":2969.966,"text":"第五條 第五條修正動議的部分我看我看有幾案這都附帶決議來我們是不是第五條的部分請衛福部"},{"start":2988.336,"end":3002.146,"text":"好跟委員會說明第5條我們也提出了這個協商的建議文字主要是針對本部的刺激機關跟業務來明定那上一次因為"},{"start":3003.587,"end":3021.875,"text":"有關於這個婦女權益業務的部分因為定位尚未明的時候所以我們把這個條文先保留那另外在兒家屬的任務上大家也還有一些建議那我們經過這一陣子的溝通之後已經把它確認所以最主要在第五款"},{"start":3022.535,"end":3038.581,"text":"那麼名稱是稱為兒少及家庭支持署那麼規劃執行與協調托育照顧早期療癒兒少福利權益保障家庭支持服務兒少健康及醫療照護四項那麼第六款是"},{"start":3039.601,"end":3051.778,"text":"把署的名稱改為社會發展及長期照顧署來規劃與執行高齡者身心障礙者權益與福利長期照顧"},{"start":3053.413,"end":3076.052,"text":"瓜湖戶及國民年金事項所以我們提出這樣的一個修正的建議再請各位委員指教至於今天在修正動議的部分那麼有關王振旭委員也有提出一個修正動議那麼基本上我們已經納入了這個"},{"start":3077.393,"end":3096.494,"text":"在第五款的兒少級家庭支持署裡面已經有納入這個執行與協調托育照顧的部分已經採納了那麼至於這個秋惠路委員也有提出這個修正的動議那基本上"},{"start":3101.479,"end":3118.836,"text":"那個邱惠露委員主要是在兒家屬的組織法所以我們剛剛的是針對第五條的部分先做這樣的說明部長的說明那衛務部所提供的"},{"start":3120.605,"end":3136.798,"text":"這個整個協商的參考的條文那剛剛王正旭委員是第五款就是兒少級家庭支持屬規劃及執行跟協調托育照護那都放進去了嘛那請問其他的委員對於第五條的部分有沒有意見沒有意見我們就叫衛福部第五條第五條第五條還有其他的你有什麼案要放嗎"},{"start":3149.636,"end":3177.408,"text":"沒有因為第五條我們看到就是我自己的版本是有關係到就是原住民健康署的部分那在協商的參考條文裡面我們看到現在有調整出一個兒少級家庭支持署還有社會發展及長期照顧署所以這個部分其實並沒有回應到我們許多原民委員的原住民族健康署"},{"start":3179.068,"end":3201.553,"text":"妳要不要特別要再弄一個出來就對了因為112年6月我們嘛很多的人的努力之下我們終於把十多年來的訴求原住民族健康法把它立法三讀通過那其實這些年我們也一直為健康不平等原住民族的平均餘命"},{"start":3202.253,"end":3222.694,"text":"跟全體國人的落差仍然經過這麼多年的努力還是有8歲的差距所以我們一直覺得說原住民族健康法立了但是沒有一個專責比較高層級的單位所以一直讓這個成效或者是他的經費有一個比較正規的一個"},{"start":3224.255,"end":3232.41,"text":"一個規模來做所以這個是這次應該蠻多委員在第五條的部分其實是有這樣的一個"},{"start":3237.612,"end":3256.578,"text":"謝謝委員對這個原住民族健康的關心那我們這一次在修法裡面也有其他委員的提案那我們是建議因為由於整個這個組織法的限制我們強化在私籍的單位提高他的人力跟預算是不是可以用在私籍的部分我們來處理"},{"start":3257.958,"end":3270.724,"text":"好因為確實啦因為要爭取一個數不容易我們只是看到這一次的這個調整齁有這樣的一個契機跟機會啦那我也看到很多我們也都喔不是這裡嗎喔不是這個第五條喔"},{"start":3275.294,"end":3299.888,"text":"我們現在討論的不是這個第五條現在是在講第五條但是你們講的有意見我們就要讓你去講沒關係好那既然謝謝部長已經有做這樣的回應所以我們在附帶決議也是有成立原住民健康司這樣的一個看法好那第五條大家沒有意見的話我們就按照協商參考條文通過再來第八條"},{"start":3305.906,"end":3317.838,"text":"對 八條 大家看一看喔盡量滿足大家啦 因為這個對於整個家庭兒少這方面的一個滿足 讓他更完備第八條第八條 還有什麼其他的 衛福部這裡也沒有提第八條"},{"start":3330.56,"end":3347.727,"text":"行政院第八條就是本法施行日期由行政院與命令定之本法中華民國一百零七年這個就改成直接把它改這邊"},{"start":3375.877,"end":3389.981,"text":"第八條你們打算要怎麼訂先說說好 因為這個案子半分也這麼多現在只是施行日期的問題而已啦"},{"start":3413.539,"end":3415.908,"text":"第二項要回到5月29然後把公佈刪掉下來"},{"start":3459.464,"end":3482.969,"text":"你們現在這個沒有條文啦我看這樣子啦你特別條這個每個委員都用心良苦啦現在直接要去落實你現在就是定義特別條另外一條行政院條第八條是本法施行日期由行政院以命令定之本法中華民國一百零七年五月二十九日修正條文自公佈日施行這樣可以嗎好"},{"start":3489.597,"end":3514.785,"text":"我們這邊照我們過去行政院各部會送進來我們都不接受行政院各部會我們要改為三讀記所以這邊是5月59日讓他那個條文弄因為每一個委員版本會有所不同那因為那個行政院院版你們沒有提出修正案嘛所以呢我們現在就是第八條的部分你沒修正當然這麼多人我就給你衝一條啦好啊好啊"},{"start":3517.187,"end":3529.167,"text":"這樣啦 不然這條你們現在說不出來了 我們再與委員溝通啦並參照委員的意見 研擬相關文之後再處理好不好第二項的日期改一下 加個第三項 仿第二項的寫法啦對"},{"start":3531.949,"end":3559.247,"text":"你不可以跟他說 你那條文要拿出來好 跟趙偉報告這個現在就是我們會再提出一個修正的建議主要是在這一次的這個修正的條文那麼要由行政院以命令訂之因為這涉及到幾個署的設立所以需要一點時間那至於原來的第二項 這個是過去那麼它是"},{"start":3561.509,"end":3580.144,"text":"這個過去的那個修正的那個到底是何時的條文我們做個修正日期就好那個6月13日好像是5月29啦對嗎 用這樣我們馬上弄出來就可以好啦 今天你們等一下有條文嗎現在在寫 好這樣還是讓你們寫出來 現在只剩條文而已嘛我們就直接處理附帶決議了啦 好不好"},{"start":3590.387,"end":3591.869,"text":"我們現在先處理附帶決議我們繼續處理協商會長范雲委員所提的附帶決議兩案先處理第一案請問提案委員有沒有補充說明范雲"},{"start":3603.476,"end":3622.381,"text":"范芸委員要處理你們大家的負擔決議出來我都幫你們處理那妳有沒有說明現在是那個妳的第一案第一案那我想先說明一下那第一案主要就是我們希望衛福部能夠邀集婦女團體性別研究學者討論會議"},{"start":3624.602,"end":3640.154,"text":"那我知道衛福部不想要用協商會議這個字眼那也可以用座談會主要就是我們剛講的大家關心的是人力跟預算有沒有提升那人力要提升的話你這個科的設計那增加要做什麼不要讓大家覺得"},{"start":3641.535,"end":3667.448,"text":"換湯不換藥只有在做性別暴力因為我們這邊還有婦女權益跟婦女福利那這個部分因為之前那個衛福部呂健德次長在跟婦女團體溝通的時候那他有承諾說可以再找大家討論那所以我希望說衛福部可以接受因為你們剛剛希望我修正文字那我覺得不要叫做會議但是叫座談好附帶決議第一案文字有沒有問題吳某"},{"start":3673.001,"end":3697.151,"text":"范雲委員所提附帶決議第一案文字有沒有問題謝謝委員同意把那個進行座談謝謝好那照修正通過那我們第一案就照學商後修正文字通過那我們繼續處理第二案請問提案委員第二案范雲委員也要理解喔你有沒有補充說明"},{"start":3699.534,"end":3728.745,"text":"好 那個第二案的部分其實也是一樣希望能夠在預算的部分可以增加那我想就是衛福部的意見是說針對第三點那個16種希望刪除我們可以接受那其他的部分也是希望跟剛剛講的不要只提升到私可是人力跟錢都沒有增加那這樣讓大家覺得是換湯不換藥因為原本就有一個家庭暴力私就是處理性別暴力的那請問衛福部"},{"start":3729.745,"end":3748.851,"text":"范雲委員的那個復賴結遇第二案有沒有什麼意見或者補充說明遵照辦理可以好那你們那個文字修正的就要你們要提供書面喔那第二案我們就照案就沒有修正囉沒有修正就照案通過囉"},{"start":3751.206,"end":3778.914,"text":"好 那我們現在繼續處理協商會場我們盧委員縣議 盧縣議委員所提的附帶決議案請問盧委員有沒有補充說明好 謝謝主席那剛才有聽到委員跟我們衛生福利部部長講的就是希望能夠在 他們也同意希望能夠在私的這個層級因為這是一個最基本的要求啦因為它比較不激進 而且它比較務實希望能夠做最基本最應該的制度回應"},{"start":3779.654,"end":3802.847,"text":"因為從2012年6月21號,研建法三讀通過之後就是希望有一個專責機構可是我們一直在等,等到這麼久了都沒有一個所謂的相對應的一個層級目前還是在原住民理導科所以我希望能夠將護理及照護健康師名稱變更為護理及原住民民主健康師這樣"},{"start":3804.096,"end":3810.337,"text":"好 請問衛福部針對盧憲義委員的附帶決議第一案有沒有什麼補充說明或意見可以接受 謝謝可以喔 那就照照案通過來 另外我們繼續處理協商的會場裡面我看江 吳立華委員所提的附帶決議請問吳立華委員有沒有補充說明"},{"start":3834.231,"end":3857.788,"text":"謝謝主席我延續剛才的發言最主要就是希望衛福部能夠在本席我們很多委員112年6月積極促成通過的原住民族健康法基礎之上要持續的投入資源並且要精進各項的原住民族健康照護政策來縮減健康不平等"},{"start":3858.348,"end":3883.485,"text":"所以呢就是在這個地方希望檢討現行的衛福部處務規程來新設一個援助民族健康及照護司然後來全面提升援助民族健康照護在行政體系內的組織定位還有它的一個政策的可見度彰顯政府對援助民族健康權益的重視以上"},{"start":3886.102,"end":3910.482,"text":"好 謝謝武力法委員的說明 衛部對於這個武力法委員所提的附帶決議有沒有意見 或補充說明跟委員說明 是不是可以按照剛剛那個盧憲宜委員的提案 那麼名稱上來做處理 可以嗎什麼名稱叫護理及援助民族健康師"},{"start":3911.976,"end":3940.423,"text":"護理及援助民族健康司那請問特別要加護理兩個字的原因是因為原本現在已經有啦所以把原本的那個司換後面的幾個字對 把它擴充編制跟預算來努力那意思就是說那個經費還是會跟護理share沒有沒有 分開的編的時候是分開編"},{"start":3941.283,"end":3955.711,"text":"那以前是離島對對對對那現在離島兩個字改成護理沒有沒有沒有沒有本來就沒有離島本來就沒有這個名稱本來只有護理這個名稱而已那以前我們以前是離島跟原住民族嗎"},{"start":3957.006,"end":3972.567,"text":"那個是科 現在是把它變成是師的理論那現在師的時候還是要前面掛一個東西就對了沒有辦法獨立他已經算是已經是獨立了可是我聽到護理 護理是一個主體耶"},{"start":3974.635,"end":3996.03,"text":"也不是它也只是兩個科護理是一個主體那還是跟人家併科然後變師併在一個師但是不是併科是分開的我當然是希望獨立一點對我是希望新設就還是獨立一點對我們逐步再擴充它的編制"},{"start":3996.57,"end":4005.081,"text":"好 逐步謝謝衛務部的說明但是也不能只有你們兩個這樣講一講啦書面 書面 提出書面是啦 這樣說看要怎麼如果原本來就有你現在又增加看怎麼樣變進去就"},{"start":4016.453,"end":4026.777,"text":"我們能夠得到最好的就要得到次要的這樣就照已經本來原住民族健康事項這樣吳立華委員的意見然後就依照盧縣醫委員的所提附帶決議通過這樣有意見嗎"},{"start":4034.059,"end":4048.53,"text":"按那個盧委員的各位我們可以啦請教一件事因為我本來很認真在研究這些密密麻麻的法案突然聽到護理兩個字就耳朵豎起來從夢中警醒的感覺沒關係不要嚇到"},{"start":4050.572,"end":4077.198,"text":"因為我們本來就有一個叫做護理及健康照護師嘛那這個是不受影響的嗎不受 只是說另外的那個師還前面加了護理兩個字對對對對所以合併喔因為本來的護理就不是只有一個師他就不是 業務不是獨立啦他裡面也是兩個科在負責那另外的是在負責離島啦還有這個偏鄉啦這樣"},{"start":4080.25,"end":4102.047,"text":"阿只是把長照業務現在我們把它移出然後讓原住民族的健康的業務擴大這樣這樣我聽得懂啦 謝謝邱委員還有我們石部長的補充說明你們這樣沒辦法處理啦你們還是 附帶決議你們要併還是要有一個文字出來有要加嗎 或是在那裡要加人的都完全都沒有改變喔來 接下來第五案這是古居化委員的附帶決議第二案"},{"start":4110.68,"end":4120.707,"text":"第五案就是武力法委員你所提的附帶決議第二案威武部有看到了有沒有補充說明你的意見是怎樣看起來還好"},{"start":4138.49,"end":4154.953,"text":"你們要不要給你們補充一下文字看你們要不要修正不然我要跪下這個是每一位委員大家都非常用心把整個在法制面裡面把它完整可以讓你們好做事有一個法院的依據"},{"start":4168.274,"end":4191.965,"text":"你們都沒準備耶我們盡量給大家大家關注面,大家都盡量滿足大家啦是啊,是啊,沒有錯啊,沒有錯啊對啦,阿不然就你們在附帶局文字課,整理一下好不好"},{"start":4196.209,"end":4223.65,"text":"我本來是 人家本來是很有效率的 你們這樣就沒準備了我也都可以保留啦 但問題就是說我是希望今天完成大家因為意見都整合得差不多 你們文字快寵啦等一下再回來討論這個 好不好這樣好啊 那就算了 你們的文字剛好適中 你們也安排給我"},{"start":4231.053,"end":4241.019,"text":"你們這一部法例好不容易達到各三黨委員大家都有一致性的一個看法那個只是文字的調整而已"},{"start":4267.028,"end":4286.904,"text":"那我先處理衛生福利部組織法第八條的修正草案那第八條本法施行日期由行政院以命令定之本法中華民國107年5月29日修正條文自公佈日施行本法"},{"start":4287.901,"end":4304.215,"text":"中華民國115年就 圈月 圈日修正條文施行日期 由行政院與命令定之文字都要搞好 都要念的一樣 可以齁好 大家沒有意見 我們就按照修正條文通過他們沒有提安全OK 沒問題他們是提供意見"},{"start":4320.933,"end":4321.194,"text":"沒有書面了"},{"start":4331.941,"end":4350.296,"text":"先保留 先保留因為我還是想知道那個經費規模人員編制沒關係 那給你再說明那現在就是說 你要捱 你總是要條文那個部分你要給我我們這邊才可以 主席總不能宣告你們聊天的暫照你們聊通內容通過啊 應該要文字啊 好不好好啦 先保留 先保留"},{"start":4354.962,"end":4361.507,"text":"來 那我們接著進行主題二 病案協商司法跟法治社會福利及衛生 跟衛環兩個委員會報告病案審查 行政院函請這個"},{"start":4368.342,"end":4381.33,"text":"委員林月琴等20人 阿伯一堆就沒了分別凝聚衛生福利部兒少及家庭支持署的組織法草案一共14案還有委員徐宇珍17人 委員沈發慧17人分別經第四次聯會 淨富二讀"},{"start":4389.436,"end":4393.38,"text":"第四次跟第五次的院會決定淨富二讀與相關提案來併案協商以上一共有三個案在今天我們併案來做一個協商"},{"start":4400.816,"end":4415.724,"text":"那我們審查會在1月19號審查完畢審查的結果跟大家報告說除第二條第三條跟附帶決議三案保留以外其餘都有審查結果通過並決議須交由黨團協商那我們為了求效率我們是不是就保留了部分來進行討論其他有共識的部分就按照審查會的審查結果通過"},{"start":4426.63,"end":4448.272,"text":"那如果各位協商代表對於審查會通過的條文有意見我們就等保留條文處理完畢以後再來接續的進行處理請問各位有沒有意見這樣可以喔 好來現在我們開始本案保留條文的討論審查會保留兩條需要協商有兩條我們從第二條開始第二條"},{"start":4450.319,"end":4462.39,"text":"喔 第二條兩個修正動議就是台灣民眾黨跟林瑞琼委員所以呢請是不是先請台灣民眾黨家你要先嗎不然就來 林瑞琼委員"},{"start":4469.305,"end":4495.823,"text":"我這邊有幾個要就教的就是說本來事實上是嚴定後來改成嚴尼如果是嚴尼的話事實上他側重在初步的一個擬定是一個從無到有和提出草案的過程那可是你是主管機關我最在我看來應該你們前面也寫嚴定為什麼後來變成是嚴尼所以我對這個有這樣子的意見然後另外一個就是我的修正動議有"},{"start":4497.29,"end":4519.119,"text":"之前我就提這個修正動議可是後來明娜今天又再提出來也就是說本來這一次成立兒家屬我們覺得很重要的意義在於表意權這一塊和參與公共就是社會參與所以本來我們有列兒童及少年權益及發展與促進及其參與公共事務相關政策之評估規劃"},{"start":4520.6,"end":4543.591,"text":"推動跟執行及相關法規的原定我不知道就是說為什麼今天衛福部會把它當初我們有修正動議進來的時候你們還是把它剔除那我今天又再提出來今天我說你要符合兒權公約的精神裡面有一個這個是非常重要的不知道為什麼會把它丟掉了那另外一個就是說"},{"start":4544.491,"end":4559.979,"text":"你們提出來的版本裡邊跟我的有個差異的是我們針對於網路安全這一塊事實上是希望而造的隱私保護保障跟網路使用安全跟風險的防治政策的評估規劃推動執行跟相關法規的嚴定"},{"start":4563.601,"end":4589.43,"text":"可是為何你們會變成只剩下一個協調你跟誰協調你們本來這個兒家族成立我們現在很希望能夠解決網路安全的問題結果你變成只是一個協調單位嗎你的工作內容只是一個協調嗎那最後也要問就是有一個你們提出來第六兒童及少年遊戲及休閒政策的推動跟協調"},{"start":4590.911,"end":4614.057,"text":"也一樣剩下只是協調另外一個我要問的是休閒是上位概念休氣跟遊戲事實上是下層的概念所以我不知道說當初這樣子定的考量會是什麼因為要不要從定義來看因為休閒就南瓜休氣跟遊戲所以我不知道你們這樣子把它全部列出來"},{"start":4614.639,"end":4619.522,"text":"主席還有各位委員大家好我們在第二條的部分的第二款在那個"},{"start":4638.314,"end":4649.92,"text":"我來念一下好不好意思就是在兒童及少年的保護安置之後我們加了幾個字這幾個字叫做偏差行為防治與輔導"},{"start":4655.323,"end":4673.078,"text":"我們加了偏差行為防治與輔導那為什麼我們會加了偏差行為防治與輔導因為有一些偏差行為的小孩他們其實原本是在內政部警政署下面的少婦會來對這類型的兒少進行輔導"},{"start":4677.381,"end":4699.291,"text":"但是因為內政部警政署他們處理這一塊比較欠缺專業所以有一些偏差行為的小孩即使經過他們的輔導跟教化其實成效並不高因為他們欠缺專業那其實最有名的一個案例就是前一陣子那個新北的戈井案"},{"start":4700.151,"end":4716.847,"text":"其實那個殺人的兇手 殺人的少年他其實進入關護所 少年關護所非常多次進進出出 進進出出那也在少年關護所可能沒有得到非常好的輔導 教育 教化 感化"},{"start":4717.708,"end":4734.225,"text":"所以變成他再出來的時候就犯了又犯了一個滔天大錯所以這讓我們去思考說是不是對於偏差行為的少年我們真的是要深入的專業的去輔導他們然後以其他們的行為能夠做一個改正然後避免為社會的治安埋下一個隱憂的炸彈所以我們才想說"},{"start":4738.409,"end":4761.805,"text":"這麼專業的事也不是任何人都可以做的必須仰賴專業的人員來協助那當然我們的衛福部當然就是充滿這些專業的人員可以來進行這件事所以我們才想說把偏差行為的防治跟輔導放到這個兒少及家庭支持署裡面這個業務放進來那其實完全都是專業考量那也希望能夠讓少年"},{"start":4763.726,"end":4770.655,"text":"能夠得到專業的照顧之後 迷途知返 以上說明 謝謝好 謝謝 讓你們這個委員都很專業其實委員也很厲害所以專業對專業 我盡量來滿足各位來 接下來請王正旭委員"},{"start":4781.207,"end":4799.266,"text":"謝謝主席對這個二元委員會的美言真的每個委員都非常的用心那針對第二條的第八款有關於從原來的兒童少年福利機構業務之監督輔導及考核現在把它修正為變成"},{"start":4801.068,"end":4818.264,"text":"現在的文字就是第八款 兒童及少年之生命統計健康促進預防保健 事故傷害防治及醫療照護政策之規劃推動執行及協調非常感謝大家共同支持 針對這個協調能夠把它"},{"start":4820.726,"end":4838.32,"text":"正式的納為這個法律的條文裡面我們之前一直在強調協調本身的工作的重要性所以我們很希望大家把這個支持的內容真的能夠化為這個法律上的文字再再度感謝大家的支持 謝謝"},{"start":4840.869,"end":4847.355,"text":"謝謝王正旭委員我們現在就請衛務部 石部長我這邊可不可以再一下補充謝謝主席我這邊剛才因為有一些討論也有一些決定了所以這邊就把我的立場也做一個表述所以一向對於在原住民族健康的部分"},{"start":4860.868,"end":4886.781,"text":"其實在這次的這個組織法裡面我之前也是表述過但我在這邊還是針對這個第二條的這個區塊我還是做一個補充啦雖然剛才也有一些階段性的結論但我認為在原住民族的這個健康那把它跟一般事物的一個混同在一起在政策治理上還是有一些不足那本席在先前也一直表達那因為原住民的平均餘命的這樣一個階段性的問題其實如果在這一次的這個組織"},{"start":4891.743,"end":4917.151,"text":"組織法裡面能夠做一個處理也是很好的那我這邊的訴求當然是說說這個醫療的這個問題不是只有單一的問題那也涉及了一個文化安全還有健康不平等跟長照世界性還有人才培育的一個問題那但是呢我們在第二條看起來也是原住民的這個部分好像還是一個被附帶處理的但是我希望未來能夠再走向一個制度的一個承擔"},{"start":4918.351,"end":4933.124,"text":"那這次新增了兒少跟家庭的支持當然也是很重要但是像原住民的這個部分其實本席還是要表達啦雖然剛才有一些結果但我覺得私處的層級還是不足以回應這整個社會的一個複雜性所以"},{"start":4933.844,"end":4945.69,"text":"我覺得在中長期我們還是希望能夠上升到一個專責的一個機關的一個層級所以原住民除了健康如果在今天的這個大家的一個討論那目前有一個共識可是我還是希望未來能夠到屬的這樣一個層級來針對原住民現在健康與命"},{"start":4953.074,"end":4976.121,"text":"還沒有跟進跟到整個標準的一個狀況能夠做一些中長期的一個規劃所以我還是比較在數的這個部分原住民族健康數那跟我以前所提出來的一個論點這邊再做個回應那當然我也尊重大家今天的一個決議啦謝謝林倩琪委員用心良苦啦我們也請衛務部這個部分其實對原住民族的健康這個部分也可以加強來接下來還有"},{"start":4978.983,"end":4989.309,"text":"張雅玲委員 欸你今天都不能亂喔我今天兩張臉是 我一些咖啡都喝光了你知道嗎 來張雅玲委員好 那我想 接下來張雅玲委員完以後 就讓我們黃毓民 黃毓民委員 失禮失禮失禮"},{"start":4998.029,"end":5016.264,"text":"我想在針對那個衛福部的第六條關於兒少的遊戲跟休閒政策我原本提案是這樣子寫的原因我也簡單說明一下讓各位委員更了解其實我是參考CRC的原文"},{"start":5017.765,"end":5043.766,"text":"他是有時間去休閒 休閒遊戲跟遊戲啦原本的CRC的原文是這樣寫所以我在立法的時候就這樣寫那因為它對應到就是兒童的遊戲發展這一塊的一個政策核心那另外還有就是空間跟設施也就是遊戲那休閒也就是時間跟生活型態這樣子那我當時的立法是這樣的一個概念那我不曉得說衛福部是不是也是參考這樣子的立法來做這次的這個條文上的修正這樣 謝謝"},{"start":5045.114,"end":5046.335,"text":"在我原來的版本裡面 事實上有把這個少子化 特別是生育相關政策"},{"start":5060.649,"end":5078.051,"text":"我的版本裡面是有的那現在衛福部的這個版本事實上都沒有看到那另外一個是有關於處罰跟曝險兒童少年的處遇服務那你們這邊是用兒童及少年輔導之統籌我不曉得這一塊是不是就已經涵蓋"},{"start":5078.952,"end":5092.89,"text":"那另外討論第二條事實上很重要的是關乎到未來整個兒少家庭署他的整個出屋規程跟內部單位的分工還有那個組織所以這個部分我有提一個附帶決議"},{"start":5094.732,"end":5115.208,"text":"這裡面呢就是總共有分了六組就是六個組別那我希望討論第二條的時候跟後面的附帶決議事實上它應該是要連動的就是不太可能說這個後面我們希望的組別裡面的任務有的但是在前面你的這一個第二條裡面"},{"start":5116.108,"end":5140.525,"text":"是沒有寫入的 譬如說少子化我認為將來在政策規劃的時候少子化是很重要的一塊那如果未來在這一個組織架構裡面我們希望綜合企劃裡面包含少子化這一塊但是在前端其實都沒有寫到這一塊是不是應該要有一些文字修正進去這樣子這個部分我希望這個等一下部長可以回應 針對"},{"start":5142.13,"end":5155.884,"text":"我提出來的這個架構分組裡面就是要執行的業務內容你們有什麼樣的意見然後是同意還是有一些要修正是不是可以一併來回應因為這個跟前面第二條其實非常關鍵 以上謝謝"},{"start":5165.647,"end":5186.063,"text":"簡單跟委員會報告第一個就是少子女化我們沒有把它寫在這個兒家屬是因為他是要更高層級的那我們的任務主要是對育兒者跟這個兒童的福利盡量給他提升這個是我們這個屬要扮演的角色對育兒者"},{"start":5186.516,"end":5197.688,"text":"跟這個兒童的照顧要給他提升所以才會我們沒有特別去訂這個少子女化因為不是這個署有辦法解決少子女化的問題"},{"start":5200.223,"end":5223.283,"text":"這個在跨層級的在行政院的層級會去有啦有一個跨部會的會議會在討論這個有關因為它對應的政策很多它包含住宅政策包含職場的友善包含勞力的沒錯但是對應到你衛福部你自己要有一個在思考這件事情的單位你要放在哪裡"},{"start":5223.883,"end":5238.408,"text":"你懂我意思嗎 就少子化涉及到很多嘛那你們衛福部也本部的業務也不只是只有這個署應該是在部裡面要來 所以是哪個單位哪個單位 你衛福部下面還有哪個單位在思考少子化這件事情"},{"start":5239.211,"end":5255.593,"text":"如果是我們就是有綜合規劃來來這個這屬於這跨部門會不會綜合規劃對啊如果是跨部門屬於報部報部會放進去嘛對不對對對對就是在綜合規劃你的綜合規劃師會有嗎就你不放在兒家屬你自己會有對對對我們目前相關的"},{"start":5257.415,"end":5277.697,"text":"政策上在提的時候也都是好謝謝 謝謝石部長的說明那我們現在來做處理那我們第二條我們就按照協商參考的條文通過大家有沒有意見沒有意見的話我們就通過來 再來不好意思那個剛剛還沒回答我就是有關於"},{"start":5278.82,"end":5288.217,"text":"我剛剛講嚴定嚴密還有一個是我原本有列的因為我覺得要符合兒權公義很重要的精神在於"},{"start":5290.344,"end":5318.499,"text":"就是我本來有寫的兒童及少年權益的發展跟促進參與公共事務這一項好 跟委員說明這個嚴定跟嚴擬這個是法規用字因為它不見得是只有定是嚴擬因為有些涉及到還要立法立法的話要到立法院不是我們定出來就可以所以現在的文字上都是用嚴擬而不再用嚴定至於說有一款兒少權益之發展及促進"},{"start":5319.479,"end":5340.275,"text":"這個我們可以接受把它新增進去就好新增一款還有一個你們寫的我覺得今天網路安全你們不會剩下協調這個工作所有的東西都寫說你們會推動執行尤其網路安全現在是重中之重怎麼今天成立了兒家屬你們只剩下一個政策協調"},{"start":5341.616,"end":5362.284,"text":"你們政策也不要執行也不要去做任何事情然後只剩下一個協調好不好那就改成原理及跨機關政策協調還要執行啊規劃跟 第二條捏如果全部都推給我們第二條捏 這個一定會有觸發第二條捏第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條第二條"},{"start":5363.513,"end":5383.832,"text":"在他的13款就是會新 我們可以接受這個林月琴委員的這個修正動議裡面有一款第七款這個兒少發展及促進參與公共事務這個我們等一下把文字寫出來新增一款"},{"start":5384.472,"end":5404.13,"text":"那最後一個是 好啦 那這個第二條齁 主席在這個地方更正啦 更正啦 齁 你這 你這教你講 你們早上應該講好了 這協商條文 你們這做好了來這裡給你們開槓的捏那這個本來就是要幫大家來做處理的 齁 那所以剛剛主席的宣告 更正 口誤 講得最快齁 趕快把文字拿出來"},{"start":5408.433,"end":5434.714,"text":"要有文字啦要有文字好不好要在那個本來是參考條文跟你們協商條文參考你們現在講一講主席可以做更正但是你們必須要把文字拿出來來我們現在第三條第三條台灣民眾黨所提的修正動議請來台灣民眾黨家補充說明一下"},{"start":5438.597,"end":5460.052,"text":"我第一問好了 柏中你對台灣民眾人的意見 你有修正黨的意見嗎我們是希望還是能夠保留用人的彈性不要說只是只能夠以公職任用 可以有比照任用的模式這樣啦 那個 趙志"},{"start":5463.475,"end":5474.519,"text":"陳大致委員 民眾委員 我們就一個叫衛福部的意見好不好行政院的 他們現在修正棟一家 我們就叫行政院一家啦好不好"},{"start":5481.283,"end":5481.523,"text":"主席"},{"start":5505.687,"end":5521.396,"text":"是要讓你們大家這樣和和氣氣 你們的愛很滿足因為我們叫做司法法治委員會 我們沒有跟你們揮櫃你知道嗎 是你們來我們盡量滿足各位不要到現在還在爭執啦 不然我就自己給你們算一算我是要讓你們大家比較高興的 今天晚上快過了好不好 不然就叫可以嗎 周資 叫行政院辦分"},{"start":5538.973,"end":5552.597,"text":"主席建議啦是不是按照行政院的提案通過啦哈囉不好意思我們討論的結果因為我們是希望常任穩關的制度能夠健全然後能夠發展所以我們這一條"},{"start":5555.444,"end":5581.035,"text":"要含保留要保留 其實我也認為說健全其實常任文官跟政務官現在是剛好涉入到各個政黨之間大家最會緊張啦這個都過度攻防啦不然其實政務官的部分未必也叫做不健全啦大家正統都希望比較有彈性啦應該去跟監督說這個人來是不是醜庸譬如說你把莊瑞雄放到衛福部去當然就是醜庸啊"},{"start":5582.856,"end":5591.682,"text":"不是這樣說 問題是這個堅持這個尊教練的意思好不好今天是希望讓這個瓦置趕快去做一個完備那這一條我們就先保留囉"},{"start":5597.315,"end":5597.895,"text":"請問提案委員先做補充說明"},{"start":5627.735,"end":5651.256,"text":"張雅玲委員基本上因為我跟衛福部已經討論好了啦就是說我們基本上就是希望有一定的一個編制啦不能用三級機關的名義來做壓縮那也要有資訊專業的源而以及研究跟政策的專業源那這基本上衛福部都同意啦那只是說他們希望可以改成書面報告那這邊我也沒有意見好 謝謝 來台灣民眾黨"},{"start":5661.836,"end":5680.284,"text":"這個部分我剛有講過就是我的版本是有分六個組別那事實上這個也是民間兒少團體希望的一個架構那現在大家都會很想要知道說這個兒少家庭署其實是非常關鍵也是這一次我們組織調整重中之重"},{"start":5681.024,"end":5709.251,"text":"那不曉得到目前為止整個衛福部你們初步的規劃包括人員包括是不是這樣的架構組別這樣至少是六組的一個情況我希望這個衛福部應該跟外界有一個說明因為今天已經審到這邊附帶決議我想有多位委員提出來的都是跟這個組織架構有關組別有關裡面的這一些任務功能有關那到底現在衛福部自己的版本"},{"start":5710.114,"end":5737.856,"text":"大概是什麼樣的架構 為什麼部長突然不見來 請衛福部說明各位委員報告目前衛福部這邊在規劃未來的兒少及家庭支持署的細部的組別組織的部分我們目前整個規劃架構確實是以六個組的方向來做規劃不過六個組裡面細部的有一些細部的事項"},{"start":5738.616,"end":5753.287,"text":"是不完全就是有些因為各個委員的這個附帶決議的內容這個事項放在組別稍微有些不一樣那這個部分的話我們大概會到時候再討論過做一些條大概做一些整理但是目前基本上是以六個組的方向在做討論跟規劃"},{"start":5757.791,"end":5772.944,"text":"人員的部分的話現有的工作人員都會做一個移撥那也在評估未來考慮到比較長期的人力發展需要那不過未來確定的組織以及人力的部分還需要跟這個人事總署這邊來做相關人力的爭取以上"},{"start":5777.825,"end":5793.649,"text":"那這個我也一樣 因為我也其實還有一個附帶決議那這個是跟這個組織架構是有關係的那其實我這邊還有強調一個就是原則上每一組不得少於四顆啦來確保我們的人力配置充足那所以這部分應該也是沒有問題嘛 對不對"},{"start":5796.324,"end":5812.388,"text":"我們會盡力來爭取好啦 我知道那個兩邊的衛福部的協商參考條文那個附帶決議的部分跟台灣民眾兩家 你們寫一個版本出來啦 好不好報告主席 我們正在整理趕快 給我文字這樣文字好嗎"},{"start":5826.04,"end":5847.894,"text":"來 謝謝 文字是哪一個該好啊 我看該如何你們現在該在哪裡這是這一個 哪一個哇 這要怎麼量我買"},{"start":5850.595,"end":5876.734,"text":"沒有啦 你要有一個文字看要怎樣 我不能給你們說改這個 這樣就沒有形成出來 文字念不出來好 可以 那就以現在你提這個版本林月琴按照林月琴委員修正動議所提版本第二條這也要運給大家 這樣不行每一個委員都要有才可以"},{"start":5878.593,"end":5907.039,"text":"我簽沒問題啊 其他委員也都要看到啊有有有有都盡量把大家的意見放進去但是那個文字要去做整理來 抱歉抱歉抱歉 不好意思謝謝主席那我們台灣民眾黨在這邊做一個補充說明那就是關於這個兒少家庭署它裡頭會有六個內部單位那六個內部單位"},{"start":5908.539,"end":5924.366,"text":"當然就涉及分工跟職長的相關說明那我們在那個第二個內部單位就是兒少保護安置署這邊我們有加進去一個叫兒少偏差行為防治輔導的業務項目"},{"start":5928.714,"end":5950.581,"text":"這是台灣民眾黨我們加進去的那除此之外在第一個內部單位就兒少健康組他有一個房子照顧括號後面本來是講含淹害房子但是因為我們覺得少年他可能不只有遭受淹害的襲擊他可能日常生活校園內"},{"start":5951.781,"end":5969.926,"text":"也會接觸到一些非法物質濫用的可行性可能性所以我們這邊就把那個煙害比較侷限的一個名詞把它擴大成非法物質濫用 那非法物質濫用就可以把一些可能是毒品 可能是煙 可能是什麼的把它涵蓋進去好 以上說明"},{"start":5970.566,"end":5994.148,"text":"好 謝謝 我要再次強調說明因為今天審查的是組織法組織法在我們司法法治委員會如果不是在你們為人家你們最在意的那召委是盡量滿足大家只是因為組織法我必須要我來排我盡量把你們納進來我這樣苦口婆心你們若不愛我待會把你們保留都要處理"},{"start":5994.989,"end":6002.173,"text":"我本來是要讓你們開開心心 你們待會兒 咻 就在那裡拍照啊你們現在沒有了沒有了 我就要幫你們剝離 有沒有處理啊我已經很盡力在協商了 好不好好 來 就這樣 嘿沒有 我不知道你們沒說好事啦我本來想說你們如果聽完說會好事你就衛福部這樣擬一擬出來我念念你們大家就開心到這樣還有現在第三案喔 請問"},{"start":6018.922,"end":6047.643,"text":"我們繼續來處理保留的負債決議有三案現在我們第三案那請問這個提案的委員有補充說明嗎那剛剛我們的負債決議是通過還是怎麼樣沒有沒有 剛才的保留所有的負債決議都保留嗎沒有有嗎負債決議你們不是說沒有問題嗎沒有 剛兩個沒有問題啦你們就文字出來嘛剛才案的保留嘛"},{"start":6048.513,"end":6070.028,"text":"因為你們就有意見啦我們的負債決議有問題嗎沒有問題啊 主席沒問題啦沒有問題的就文字給我那個一案一案處理嘛不是不是不是你們審查會保留的部分你們剛才看你們大家十幾九八鐘一直說要加進去我就給你們加要加進去之後你們要文字給我啊沒有啦 我們今天有幾案已經結束OK了"},{"start":6082.199,"end":6089.509,"text":"好啦 台灣民眾黨你有案啦 蔣麗玲委員你有案啦 你們大家都有案啦不是 是 你們要哪一個版本是嘛 問題你們兩個的文字不一樣 你們要給我一個啊 看要怎麼樣"},{"start":6114.081,"end":6120.907,"text":"我先來做處理原來審查報告附帶決議的第三案我看張惠玲妳也有簽名那我們就照修正動議通過第三案"},{"start":6135.221,"end":6157.76,"text":"不 附帶決議 附帶決議第三案 按照修正文字通過再來 您其他的版本那衛福部回應一下 我的部分因為剛才我通過了 你說了 我跟他說我做更正啦是要讓你們加進去嘛 加進去你們就要有書面嘛不是你們講好了 我要看到書面啊"},{"start":6159.571,"end":6170.737,"text":"我們本來就有提附帶決議那附帶決議可能衛福部表示意見如果沒有問題就可以通過那衛福部那個王玉民委員的說明衛福部有沒有意見"},{"start":6178.868,"end":6199.857,"text":"我們要不要一案一案過就附帶決議題剛才那個就過了沒有沒有就是我剛是一案一案我本來過了那林瑞琴委員你還有你的看法嘛那我就更正嘛我就更正讓你們再提文字修正給我嘛我還主席還沒有主席還沒有看到文字啊我怎麼宣告你不會逼我這裡啦你那文字給我"},{"start":6207.849,"end":6223.32,"text":"主席主席我得有文字啦不是 我說剛剛那個剛剛做文字修正的部分等一下 等一下 等一下來 按一下再回來同櫃 我們剛才同櫃在"},{"start":6237.708,"end":6257.265,"text":"第三案通過了對 按照修正文字通過了來 現在第一案第一案是王玉敏的第一案是王玉敏 王委員的我們沒有問題 我們可以遵照來 原來第一案你的附帶決議有三個對啊對不對 那"},{"start":6267.267,"end":6287.684,"text":"因為你們都跟內部單位分工跟執掌建議相關聯嘛那要申請通告啊我 蔡英文也有 王一民也有 這樣就要叫上個班分"},{"start":6291.598,"end":6300.38,"text":"因為全部都是內部分工跟職長那你們各有版本我要按照哪一個版本通過因為你們的長得不一樣啊你們三個都通過了 那個衛護部怎麼辦"},{"start":6320.014,"end":6345.497,"text":"妳的是哪一案?我的是第一案的附帶決議五啊我剛才保留,我現在做達成共識做修正文字好,那修正...好,修正...一人一人來,現在先第二案還是第二案?修正動議五啊,妳文字咧?還沒有處理到妳的啊不會啦,啊不會,啊不會,這先來附帶決議先來"},{"start":6352.225,"end":6357.008,"text":"那是審查會保留這麻煩不是"},{"start":6407.28,"end":6407.942,"text":"好 我們先休息齁"},{"start":6628.291,"end":6643.619,"text":"不是 沒有文字啦沒有文字啦今天說好就好來 那個我們現在會議 我們繼續開會啦來 主席跟大家報告啦請坐坐 請坐坐"},{"start":6645.049,"end":6668.347,"text":"主席本來以為啊這個法案啊各個政黨大家有所關注在未完委員會裡面啊我看大家是以為大家喬的差不多那我看還是有很多的分歧啊那我們司法法治委員會的你這個整個組織法一定都是到送到司法法治委員會來大家也知道我主持的風格我盡量來滿足各位可是因為你們這個文字弄不出來啦會啦會盡量滿足你們我們則其在協商大家"},{"start":6675.297,"end":6690.762,"text":"你不用煩惱 大家說好就會交你的意見今天講好的部分 就照這個會通過這個不用擔心啦 只要我們找個時間啦大家 因為衛生部裡面等一下 等一下 你們等一下 不要講話衛生部你們現在是告訴我們 各政黨都說好了 結果他有說好"},{"start":6695.762,"end":6715.15,"text":"有 成長日圍就沒有太多不然成長日圍你太花了 我想說有我是要做餅...不不不 我是要做餅蓋給你們 不不不我們對於兒家屬這個部分我知道各位很...大家非常在意那我在跟..."},{"start":6717.091,"end":6742.573,"text":"我看王正旭委員 林瑞琴委員 張雅琳委員你也都一直跟我們溝通了很多 我也盡量來滿足各位那陳昭志 台灣民眾黨 或者說中國國民黨這邊所提出來的意見 我們也都非常尊重但是我看你們今天文字是弄不出來的啦這樣啦 石部長你再跟各黨團家 跟衛環的委員再溝通一下"},{"start":6743.7,"end":6753.385,"text":"文字出來 我再一次時間我就幫你們通過好不好好 那我們擇期再協商啦好不好那我們今天會議就 協商會議就到這個地方"},{"start":6762.369,"end":6778.32,"text":"統統沒人簽啦 不要啦 不要啦這個 那個今天齁 大家各政黨之間 還開誠布公今天大家有共識的 到最後大家也沒有人會耍賴啦因為今天你這個案子 大家所關注的很正面的啦 好不好 我們則即再協商今天協商到這裡 散會"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:30:20.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:30:25.250000+08:00","text":"請各位就座，115 年 4 月 9 日黨團協商要開始了，協商的時間已屆至，黨團代表也都已經到\n場，我們現在開始協商會議。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:30:25.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:31:29.997000+08:00","text":"本日協商「衛生福利部組織法第二條、第五條及第八條條文修正草案」、「衛生福利部兒少\n及家庭支持署組織法草案」、「衛生福利部長期照顧及社會發展署組織法草案」、「衛生福利\n部中央健康保險署組織法第二條條文修正草案」、「國家醫療科技評估中心設置條例草案」及\n「國家中醫研究院設置條例草案」等，這都是因應國民對衛生福利服務的期待，並擴大醫療科\n技評估技術之發展應用及中醫藥研發能力的相關法案，一共 6 個主題，稍後我們按照協商通知\n的排序依序進行協商。","quality":0.801},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:32:00.787000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:32:50.357000+08:00","text":"因為還是要製作文書，應邀列席的官員名單請列入公報紀錄。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:32:50.357000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:33:17.353000+08:00","text":"答詢官員 衛生福利部部長石崇良\n衛生福利部署長周道君\n衛生福利部司長郭彩榕\n衛生福利部司長祝健芳\n衛生福利部司長蘇奕彰\n衛生福利部司長蔡淑鳳\n衛生福利部司長廖崑富\n衛生福利部處長林翠玲\n衛生福利部參事陳信誠\n衛生福利部技監劉明勳\n人事行政總處副人事長張秋元\n司法院傅曉瑄\n432\n立法院公報 第 115卷 第 30期 黨團協商紀錄\n司法院許智強\n監察院主任秘書施貞仰\n銓敘部專門委員蕭麗蓉\n內政部專門委員張翠恩\n財政部專門委員林華苑\n財政部專門委員吳秀琳\n財政部副組長張意欣\n教育部專門委員吳志偉\n法務部檢察官李芷琪\n經濟部專門委員鄧慧儀\n勞動部專門委員劉政彥\n勞動部專門委員李涓鳳\n文化部專門委員李長龍\n國家發展委員會專門委員莊靜雯\n國家科技及技術委員會生命科學研究發展處副處長涂君怡\n公共工程委員會專門委員徐偉峻\n原住民族委員會社會福利處副處長洪玲\n主計總處專門委員張正輝","quality":0.204},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:33:17.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:33:33.819000+08:00","text":"現在逐案進行協商，協商時請參閱協商條文對照表、審查報告及逕付二讀提案之關係文書，\n與會委員如果有修正動議或者機關有建議內容的話，也請提出書面印發現場來進行討論。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:33:37.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:34:29.647000+08:00","text":"首先我們進行主題一、司法及法制、社會福利及衛生環境兩委員會報告併案審查行政院函請\n審議「衛生福利部組織法第二條、第五條及第八條條文修正草案」等 16 案；另有委員廖偉翔等\n16 人、委員許宇甄等 17 人、委員沈發惠等 18 人之提案，分別經第 11 屆 5 會期第 3 次院會、第\n4 次院會及第 5 次院會決定：逕付二讀，與相關提案併案協商。","quality":0.78},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:34:29.647000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:34:35.475000+08:00","text":"今天就併案協商。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:34:35.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:34:46.559000+08:00","text":"再跟聯席會報\n告，審查會於 1 月 19 日審查完竣，審查結果是第二條、第五條及第八條均保留送院會處理，並\n決議須交由黨團協商。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:34:46.579000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:35:24.980000+08:00","text":"我們現在開始進行衛福部組織法修正案的逐條協商，現在從第二條開始，第二條共有 19 個版\n本，另有 2 個修正動議，分別是台灣民眾黨黨團所提修正動議及委員范雲等所提修正動議。","quality":0.726},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:35:32.911000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:35:35.917000+08:00","text":"請\n問各位委員有什麼看法嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:35:35.917000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:35:38.241000+08:00","text":"還是我們先聽聽衛福部意見，好不好？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:35:42.267000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:35:43.587000+08:00","text":"部長，請你先說明衛福部的看法。","quality":0.462},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:35:44.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:37:01.604000+08:00","text":"跟召委及各委員說明一下，第二條的部分，因為上次主要是還有一些婦女權益的部分\n要不要移到這個司，最後的討論結果是要從原本的社家署移到司，所以我們在第二條的本部掌\n理事項下，特別在第四款規定增加婦女權益保障的部分，未來這個就是司的業務，從署的業務\n移到司，這也經過跟范雲委員的討論，大家也都支持這樣，所以我們就修正並提出一個協商建\n議條文，就是第二條「本部掌理下列事項」的部分，特別修訂第四款增加「婦女權益保障、婦\n433\n立法院公報 第 115卷 第 30期 黨團協商紀錄\n女福利服務、社會參與」，除了這個是新增之外，其他都是原本的文字略做修正而已，這個是\n第一個修正的建議。","quality":0.799},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:37:01.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:37:31.965000+08:00","text":"第二個是陳昭姿委員提出修正動議要在第二條再新增一項，是有關於本法施行前，原聘（僱\n）用之約聘（僱）人員的權益保障問題，這個我們也一直在跟委員溝通，因為我們的總員額法\n已經有相關規定，所以我們建議不在本條條文再另增一項。","quality":0.876},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:37:31.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:37:32.966000+08:00","text":"以上說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:37:35.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:37:54.218000+08:00","text":"謝謝部長的說明，衛福部現在的建議就是第四款句首增加「婦女權益保障、婦女福利服務、\n社會參與」，並將性侵害、性騷擾防治與其他保護服務的「與」改為「及」。","quality":0.677},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:37:57.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:38:02.203000+08:00","text":"陳昭姿委員，你們的修正動議是要增加第二項嘛，對不對？是。","quality":0.458},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-04-09T12:38:06.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:38:09.448000+08:00","text":"我們就是在第二條的部分……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-04-09T12:38:12.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:38:55.540000+08:00","text":"對，增加第二項，這個是我們非常強調的部分，因為當年……以其中一個單位，譬如\n健保署來看，當年是改制過的，從國營事業進入公家機構，當時雖然沒有正式的公務員考試，\n他們也經過招考，所以他們可能一直留在約聘、聘用、聘僱的狀況下，這個時候因為整個組織\n要進行整併等等，而他們這些基層工作人員其實相對也是資深人員，也貢獻很久了，應該要給\n予一個最基本的保障，就是他們目前的職位、職等及相關工作……","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-04-09T12:38:58.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:39:18.112000+08:00","text":"剛剛開會之前你們來溝通第七條的內容，我知道你們拿第七條來討論這個組織法，但\n是我還是要說，法律是這樣子的，法律應該要有哪些，不代表……真正完整的是寫明應該的有\n哪些、不應該的有哪些，現在法律有這些也不代表它是完備的，我們希望我們的想法能夠具體\n的進入……","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:39:18.233000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:39:23.395000+08:00","text":"聽懂了，昭姿委員，你的說明我聽得懂，第二項就是原來的這些人要怎麼處理，衛福部是一\n個公務機關，跟這個不一樣，針對第二項，請衛福部看一下陳昭姿委員這樣一個意見，你們的\n看法如何？好，請。","quality":0.671},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:39:38.675000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:39:42.996000+08:00","text":"召委，是不是請人總副人事長說明？","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:39:42.996000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:39:44.137000+08:00","text":"請副人事長。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:39:44.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:40:02.842000+08:00","text":"張副人事長秋元：跟召委及昭姿委員報告，其實剛剛在會前也有跟昭姿委員報告，我們很感謝昭姿\n委員對我們基層同仁照顧的心意，權益保障的部分，在組織法上面的處理大概分兩軌。","quality":0.653},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:40:04.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:40:06.643000+08:00","text":"召委是\n法律人，應該很清楚。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:40:09.609000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:40:29.461000+08:00","text":"剛剛昭姿委員提到的那個第一類的，就是制度改變、機關性質改變，事\n業機構的移到行政機關或者行政機關的移到事業機構，他們在身分上有重大的改變，這樣的改\n變才會在組織法裡面落入條文。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:40:31.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:40:43.616000+08:00","text":"其他像一般隨同業務移撥的人員，就是剛剛昭姿委員提到，我\n們剛剛報告的，就是在總員額法第七條上面做一般性的規範。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:40:44.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:41:05.734000+08:00","text":"因為你原來是公務員轉到事業機\n構，或者是事業機構的人轉到公務機關來，他不能適用新機關的制度，所以當然要在法律上，\n特別是在組織法上面再做規範，要不然一般在中央行政機關組織基準法中所規定的事項，其實\n434\n立法院公報 第 115卷 第 30期 黨團協商紀錄\n並沒有這個事項。是啦！","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:41:05.874000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:41:10.577000+08:00","text":"他的意思是，他現在定的這個工作權的保障，我們有沒有解套的方法？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:41:11.757000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:41:34.152000+08:00","text":"張副人事長秋元：我剛剛做一個建議，就是請衛福部寫一個附帶決議，讓昭姿委員看看能不能接受\n，現在大家希望能夠保障這些同仁，我相信衛福部也一定會做到，只是如果大家希望拘束力更\n強一點，讓衛福部可以做得更好，那我們寫一個附帶決議……","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:41:34.152000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:41:39.214000+08:00","text":"好，那麼你們趕快寫，好嗎？","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:41:39.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:41:39.914000+08:00","text":"張副人事長秋元：寫得具體一點啦。","quality":0.357},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:41:40.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:41:44.055000+08:00","text":"好，你趕快寫，因為陳昭姿委員這個提案其實也是很有建設性。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-04-09T12:41:44.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:41:47.756000+08:00","text":"主席，我本來想說入法有什麼困難？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-04-09T12:41:47.756000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:41:48.476000+08:00","text":"為什麼不能入法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:41:49.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:41:59.978000+08:00","text":"沒有，昭姿，剛剛副人事長其實也有講得很清楚，公務機關跟事業單位不一樣，但是怎麼樣\n去保障這些人員的工作權，讓他……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-04-09T12:41:59.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:42:04.719000+08:00","text":"過去有前例喔、過去有前例、過去勞工局跟健保署那時候有前例，他們的組織法裡面\n有寫進去。","quality":0.658},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:42:05.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:42:05.620000+08:00","text":"好，他們現在說有前例，請再說明。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-04-09T12:42:05.620000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:42:08.621000+08:00","text":"有前例啊、有前例啊。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-04-09T12:42:08.621000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:42:24.907000+08:00","text":"張副人事長秋元：前例就是我剛剛報告的，它的性質不同，就是事業機構的人轉到行政機關去或者\n是行政機關轉到事業機構來，那當然他適用的人事制度就是完全不同的，所以在組織法裡面就\n會為了保障其權益而去做特別的規範……","quality":0.758},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:42:26.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:42:29.109000+08:00","text":"好，這樣我聽懂了，你們把附帶決議先寫出來，好不好？","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:42:29.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:42:32.130000+08:00","text":"先寫一下、先擬一下，讓陳昭姿委\n員看一下。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-04-09T12:42:37.417000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:42:51.946000+08:00","text":"主席，不好意思，我還是覺得要入法，你們如果有什麼特例要怎麼處理，換你們用附\n帶決議自己把它處理掉，我們通過讓你們自己內部使用附帶決議，你們擔心什麼，你們煩惱什\n麼東西，到底入這個法有什麼困難嗎？","quality":0.802},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-04-09T12:42:52.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:42:57.949000+08:00","text":"這些人都在貴單位裡面服務那麼久，相對也都是資深的\n、貢獻很久了嘛。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:42:58.170000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:42:59.270000+08:00","text":"聽懂了，來，再說明。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:42:59.971000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:43:00.711000+08:00","text":"張副人事長秋元：我再說明一下。","quality":0.462},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:43:01.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:43:16.907000+08:00","text":"真的很感謝昭姿委員對我們同仁的愛護，因為制度的邏輯很清楚\n，就是剛剛講的，制度的轉換會有這樣的規範，至於一般性的權益保障，在總員額法第七條裡\n面也有做完整的規範。","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:43:17.388000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:43:41.260000+08:00","text":"我們之所以會有一些顧慮，因為所有同性質機關的轉換，在它的組織法裡面都沒有這樣的規\n定，如果在衛福部特別做這樣的規定，那大家就會有特別的期待，會想說，欸，這個是有額外\n的、另外的、絕對的保障嗎？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:43:42.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:44:10.145000+08:00","text":"我剛剛也有說明，它有可能衍生一些爭議，如果我們每一個同仁\n都覺得我這個是絕對的保障，譬如說現在我們大家比較關注的像霸凌、性騷或者是酒駕這些，\n如果有這種情形的同仁，中間就會有一些爭議，會想說你能不能請我離開？","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:44:10.325000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:44:18.907000+08:00","text":"因為一般其他的機\n關，這一類的人都沒有這樣的規範，一旦入法可能就會有一些誤解跟爭議出來。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:44:19.067000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:44:25.104000+08:00","text":"我們是覺得效\n果如果沒有不同，是不是讓整個法的體系越清楚越好？","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:44:25.104000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:44:26.545000+08:00","text":"435\n立法院公報 第 115卷 第 30期 黨團協商紀錄","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:44:26.545000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:44:28.526000+08:00","text":"好啦，這樣不然你們先寫看看，不然這一條就要保留了。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:44:28.726000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:44:44.473000+08:00","text":"不要第一條就卡關，先寫一下，讓\n陳昭姿委員也看一下，對於原先這一些人的工作保障，昭姿，先讓他們擬一下，不然第一條就\n保留也沒意思，好不好？","quality":0.78},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:44:45.734000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:44:51.002000+08:00","text":"來，接下來是第五條，第五條這個的提案就多囉。","quality":0.526},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-04-09T12:44:51.542000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:44:55.124000+08:00","text":"「歹勢」，召委，剛剛第二條我也有一個修正動議，可以簡單說明一下嗎？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:44:55.124000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:44:56.124000+08:00","text":"第二條？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:44:55.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:44:56.806000+08:00","text":"好，范雲……不只台灣民眾黨，還有范雲委員，對不起、對不起，來。","quality":0.435},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-04-09T12:44:56.806000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:45:12.918000+08:00","text":"沒關係、沒關係。","quality":0},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-04-09T12:45:12.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:45:24.688000+08:00","text":"謝謝召委，我先講一下，大家桌上有我關於第二條的修正動議，主要\n是第四項就是加上「婦女權益保障、婦女福利服務」，等於是提升原本的保護司，讓他可以成\n為一個兼顧婦女權益及保護的司。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-04-09T12:45:26.449000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:45:27.170000+08:00","text":"為什麼要有這個提案？","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-04-09T12:45:27.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:45:40.462000+08:00","text":"我先謝謝部長認同這個方向，所以已\n經直接放在他的協商參考條文中了，雖然後面的文字有幾個不一樣，但我覺得精神上是一致的\n，所以可以接受。","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-04-09T12:45:41.022000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:45:43.684000+08:00","text":"我很簡要說明一下，為什麼要有這個提案。","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-04-09T12:45:44.405000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:46:02.939000+08:00","text":"因為在一年之內，臺大醫院就爆發好幾起醫生對\n病人的性侵、性騷、猥褻案，而且是好幾起，可以看到婦女福利權益相關的業務，在衛福部整\n體裡面還是處於一個比較邊陲的地帶。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-04-09T12:46:05.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:46:18.128000+08:00","text":"根據社家署的統計，現行的婦女福利科其實只有 7 個員\n額，業務也只占社家署的 0.12%，在公益彩券的回饋金比例中只有占 6.81%。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-04-09T12:46:18.128000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:46:33.677000+08:00","text":"所以這次很高興部\n長認同我提出來的，要提高婦女業務的層級，從原本規劃是長照發展署下的一個組別提高到二\n級機關，那是跟原有的保護司合併。","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-04-09T12:46:35.237000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:47:02.885000+08:00","text":"這邊也跟大家、跟部長講一下，我知道部內關於司的名稱，比較傾向於「婦女發展及保護司\n」，很多婦團的朋友希望能夠優先考慮「婦女權益及保護司」，因為如果沒有權益的話，保護\n會做不好；如果只強調婦女發展，好像婦女能力很差需要發展，所以這邊也讓部長參考。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-04-09T12:47:04.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:47:16.911000+08:00","text":"最重\n要的是婦女團體認為不是只有提升層級，人力跟預算一定要提升，希望能夠增設兩到三個科，\n特別是要強調有政策研究的量能。","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-04-09T12:47:18.652000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:47:37.528000+08:00","text":"大家非常的擔心，我有提出兩個附帶決議，就是提升人力預\n算，另外一個也是希望修法通過後，衛福部可以邀請這些長期跟衛福部有合作或者是監督的婦\n女團體，共同討論未來的組織設計。","quality":1},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-04-09T12:47:37.808000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:47:40.710000+08:00","text":"這部分剛剛衛福部有一些修正，我想我就到處理附帶決議\n時再講。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-04-09T12:47:40.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:48:03.824000+08:00","text":"最後，也有婦團擔心說跟保護司放在一起，好像婦女會被弱化，所以也希望在組織的\n設計上要明確區隔，就是婦女權益跟保護的編制跟預算要獨立出來，不會讓大家覺得你這個司\n就只處理一個性別暴力。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-04-09T12:48:04.745000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:48:05.005000+08:00","text":"以上說明，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:48:05.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:48:07.185000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝范雲委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:48:07.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:48:19.307000+08:00","text":"范雲委員所提的修正動議，其實在衛福部的第四款裡面，對於整個婦女\n保障跟婦女福利的部分，也把它放進去，那其他的部分，是不是請部長再說明一下？","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:48:22.768000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:48:28.929000+08:00","text":"謝謝范雲委員的提案、附帶決議，我們都朝這個方向來努力，沒有問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:48:28.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:48:28.989000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:48:36.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:48:42.946000+08:00","text":"接下來是第五條，第五條修正動議的部分，我看這部分人多囉……來，第五條的\n部分我們是不是請衛福部說明。","quality":0.628},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:49:01.736000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:49:13.505000+08:00","text":"跟委員會說明，第五條我們也提出了協商的建議文字，主要是針對本部的次級機關跟\n業務來明定。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:49:14.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:49:24.851000+08:00","text":"上一次有關於婦女權益業務的部分，因為在定位尚未明的時候，所以我們把條文\n先保留。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:49:25.351000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:49:50.160000+08:00","text":"另外，在兒家署的任務上，大家也還有一些建議，我們經過這一陣子的溝通之後，已\n436\n立法院公報 第 115卷 第 30期 黨團協商紀錄\n經把它確認，所以最主要在第五款，名稱為「兒少及家庭支持署」，負責規劃、執行與協調托\n育照顧、早期療育、兒少福利與權益保障、家庭支持服務、兒少健康及醫療照護事項。","quality":0.819},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:49:50.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:50:09.275000+08:00","text":"第六款\n是把署的名稱改為社會發展及長期照顧署，規劃與執行高齡者、身心障礙者權益與福利、長期\n照顧（護）及國民年金事項。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:50:09.736000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:50:16.562000+08:00","text":"我們提出這樣的修正建議，再請各位委員指教。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:50:17.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:50:39.904000+08:00","text":"至於今天在修正動議的部分，王正旭委員也有提出一個修正動議，基本上我們已經納入了，\n在第五款的兒少及家庭支持署裡面已經有納入執行與協調托育照顧的部分，已經採納了。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:50:40.905000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:51:04.930000+08:00","text":"至於\n邱慧洳委員也有提出修正動議，主要是針對兒家署的組織法，所以我們剛剛針對第五條的部分\n先做這樣的說明。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:51:07.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:51:24.914000+08:00","text":"以上是部長的說明，我們看衛福部所提供整個協商參考的條文，剛剛王正旭委員提的是第五\n款，就是兒少及家庭支持署規劃及執行跟協調托育照顧，那都放進去了。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:51:26.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:51:28.857000+08:00","text":"請問其他的委員，對\n於第五條的部分有沒有意見？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:51:29.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:51:29.798000+08:00","text":"你有什麼案子要放嗎？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:51:42.636000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:52:10.388000+08:00","text":"伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 委員：沒有，因為第五條我自己的版本是有關係到原住民健康署的部\n分，在協商的參考條文裡面，我們看到現在有調整出一個兒少及家庭支持署，還有社會發展及\n長期照顧署，這個部分並沒有回應到我們許多原民委員的原住民健康署。","quality":0.802},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:52:12.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:52:14.349000+08:00","text":"你要特別再弄一個出來就對了？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:52:15.189000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:52:40.538000+08:00","text":"伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 委員：因為 112年 6月，在我們很多人的努力之下，我們終於把十多\n年來的訴求，原住民族健康法立法三讀通過，其實這些年我們也一直為健康不平等、原住民族\n的平均餘命跟全體國人的落差努力，但經過這麼多年的努力，還是有 8 歲的差距。","quality":0.772},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:52:41.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:53:05.290000+08:00","text":"我們一直覺\n得，雖然原住民族健康法立了，但是沒有一個專責、比較高層級的單位，一直沒辦法讓它的成\n效或者是經費有一個比較正規的規模，所以這次應該蠻多委員在第五條的部分有這樣的建議。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:53:10.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:53:29.558000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員對原住民族健康的關心，這次在修法裡面也有其他委員的提案，我們是建議\n，因為囿於整個組織法的限制，我們強化在司級的單位，提高它的人力跟預算，是不是可以讓\n我們在司級的部分處理？","quality":0.89},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:53:30.958000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:53:43.424000+08:00","text":"伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 委員：好，確實，因為要爭取一個署不容易，我們只是看到這一次的\n調整有這樣的一個契機跟機會，我也看到很多……不是這裡嗎？","quality":0.671},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:53:48.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:53:50.115000+08:00","text":"我們現在討論的不是這個第五\n條？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:53:50.115000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:53:54.518000+08:00","text":"現在是在講第五條，但是你們有意見，我們就要讓你去講。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:53:54.518000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:54:05.104000+08:00","text":"伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 委員：沒關係，謝謝部長已經有做這樣的回應，我們在附帶決議也是\n有成立原住民族健康司這樣的一個看法。","quality":0.641},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:54:05.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:54:12.728000+08:00","text":"好，第五條大家沒有意見的話，我們就按照協商參考條文通過。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:54:12.728000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:54:19.247000+08:00","text":"再來處理第八條。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:54:19.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:54:21.889000+08:00","text":"大家看一下，儘量滿足大家啦！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:54:22.029000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:54:28.776000+08:00","text":"因為這個是對整個家庭、兒少方面的滿足\n，讓它更完備。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:54:28.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:54:29.396000+08:00","text":"第八條有什麼其他的嗎？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:54:29.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:54:53.064000+08:00","text":"衛福部這裡也沒有提出，第八條就是本法施行日期，\n由行政院以命令定之。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:54:53.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:55:31.358000+08:00","text":"本法中華民國一百零七年……部長，第八條你們打算要怎麼定？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:55:31.358000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:55:42.521000+08:00","text":"先講好\n，因為這條的版本也很多，現在只是施行日期的問題而已。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:56:06.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:00.086000+08:00","text":"437\n立法院公報 第 115卷 第 30期 黨團協商紀錄\n部長，現在你們沒有條文，我看這樣子，每個委員都用心良苦，在這個部分要怎麼去落實，\n第八條原來的行政院提案是「本法施行日期，由行政院以命令定之。","quality":0.338},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:00.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:01.086000+08:00","text":"本法中華民國一百零七年\n五月二十九日修正公布條文，自公布日施行。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:01.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:02.086000+08:00","text":"」這樣可以嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:02.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:03.086000+08:00","text":"等一下，讓他們整理一下，因為每一個委員的版本會有所不同，而行政院院版沒有提出修正\n案，所以就是第八條的部分你們沒有修正動議，有這麼多人的版本，我就幫你寫一條。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:03.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:04.086000+08:00","text":"不然這\n樣，這條你們現在說不出來，我們就再與委員溝通，並參照委員的意見研擬相關文字後再處理\n，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:04.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:05.086000+08:00","text":"第二項的日期改一下，然後加第三項，仿第二項的寫法。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:05.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:06.086000+08:00","text":"你們不能只用說的，條文要拿出來。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:06.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:07.086000+08:00","text":"跟召委報告，我們會再提出一個修正的建議，主要是這一次的修正條文要由行政院以\n命令定之，因為這涉及到幾個署的設立，所以需要一點時間。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:07.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:08.086000+08:00","text":"至於原來的第二項，這個是過去\n何時修正的條文，我們做個修正日期就好，那個 6 月 13 日好像是 5 月 29 日，我們馬上弄出來\n就可以了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:08.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:09.086000+08:00","text":"你們等一下會有條文嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:09.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:10.086000+08:00","text":"現在在寫嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:10.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:11.086000+08:00","text":"好，那還是讓你們寫出來，現在就剩條文而已。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:11.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:12.086000+08:00","text":"我們就直接處理附帶決議了啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:12.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:13.086000+08:00","text":"我們現在先處理附帶決議，我們繼續處理協商會場范雲委員\n所提的附帶決議 2案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:13.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:14.086000+08:00","text":"討論事項第一案附帶決議 1\n衛生部組織法第二條附帶\n針對婦女福利業務與保護服務業合併後，部分團體擔心強化「婦女需被保護」刻板印象，衛\n生福利部應於本法修正通過後一個月內，邀集婦女團體、性別研究學者召開協商會議，針對新\n設司級單位之「科別名稱」、「各科別具體職掌劃分」及「中長期政策研究方向」等進行研商\n。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:14.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:15.086000+08:00","text":"請衛生福利部於半年內向立法院司法及法制委員會提出前述會議結論及組織規劃之書面報告\n。","quality":0},{"speaker":"提案人","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:15.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:16.086000+08:00","text":"范 雲  張雅琳  莊瑞雄\n討論事項第一案附帶決議 2\n衛福部組織法第二條附帶決議\n鑑於衛生福利部組織改組，將原隸屬於社會及家庭署之「婦女福利及企劃組」提升至二級機\n關「司」級單位。","quality":0},{"speaker":"提案人","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:16.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:17.086000+08:00","text":"為落實組織再造之精神，避免婦女業務遭長照資源稀釋或維持邊緣地位，建\n請衛生福利部於本法通過後，應具體提升婦女業務之人力員額與預算規模。","quality":0},{"speaker":"提案人","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:17.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:18.086000+08:00","text":"一、依《中央行政機關組織基準法》規範，新設之婦女相關科別（如：婦女權益保障及政策\n研究科、婦女福利及培力服務科等），並確保員額總數顯著高於原婦女福利科。","quality":0},{"speaker":"提案人","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:18.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:19.086000+08:00","text":"二、為避免婦女業務長期資源不足（預算僅占社家署 0.12%、員額僅 7 人）之困境，應確保婦\n女專責機制之預算編列高於原婦女福利科，並落實「獨立科室、獨立預算、獨立 KPI」之編列原\n則，不得僅以性別暴力防治作為唯一政策核心。","quality":0},{"speaker":"提案人","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:19.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:20.086000+08:00","text":"三、針對目前已發展之 16 種「婦女服務創新方案」，衛福部亦應編列專項預算支應，確保業\n438\n立法院公報 第 115卷 第 30期 黨團協商紀錄\n務移撥後之延續性與交織性處境婦女之培力服務。","quality":0},{"speaker":"提案人","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:20.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:21.086000+08:00","text":"范 雲  張雅琳  莊瑞雄","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:21.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:22.086000+08:00","text":"先處理第 1案，請問提案委員有沒有補充說明？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:22.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:23.086000+08:00","text":"范雲委員，要處理附帶決議，你們提附帶決\n議出來，我都幫你們處理，你有沒有說明？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:23.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:24.086000+08:00","text":"你的第 1案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:24.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:25.086000+08:00","text":"我想先說明一下，第 1案主要是我們希望衛福部能夠邀集婦女團體、性別研究學者召開\n會議討論。","quality":0},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:25.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:26.086000+08:00","text":"我知道衛福部不想要用協商會議這個字眼，那也可以用座談會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:26.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:27.086000+08:00","text":"主要就是我們剛剛\n講的，大家關心的是人力跟預算有沒有提升，人力要提升的話，你設計這個科，要增加做什麼\n？","quality":0},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:27.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:28.086000+08:00","text":"不要讓大家覺得換湯不換藥，只有在做性別暴力，因為我們這邊還有涉及婦女權益跟婦女福\n利，且之前衛福部呂建德次長在跟婦女團體溝通時有承諾，可以再找大家討論，所以我希望衛\n福部可以接受。","quality":0},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:28.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:29.086000+08:00","text":"再來，剛才你們希望我修正文字，那我將「會議」修正為「座談」。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:29.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:30.086000+08:00","text":"附帶決議第 1案的文字有沒有問題？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:30.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:31.086000+08:00","text":"范雲委員所提附帶決議第 1案，文字有沒有問題？","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭司長彩榕","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:31.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:32.086000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，同意修正為「進行座談」，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:32.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:33.086000+08:00","text":"好，第 1案就照協商後修正文字通過。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:33.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:34.086000+08:00","text":"繼續處理第 2案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:34.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:35.086000+08:00","text":"請問提案委員范雲委員針對第 2案有沒有補充說明？","quality":0},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:35.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:36.086000+08:00","text":"第 2案的部分，其實也是一樣，希望在預算的部分能夠增加，對此，衛福部的意見是希\n望刪除第三點中的「16 種……」等文字，我們可以接受；其他的部分，跟剛剛講的一樣，不要\n只提升到「司」，可是人力跟錢都沒有增加，讓大家覺得是換湯不換藥，因為原本就有一個「\n家庭暴力司」，就是處理性別暴力的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:36.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:37.086000+08:00","text":"請問衛福部，范雲委員提的附帶決議第 2案有沒有什麼意見或者補充說明？","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:37.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:38.086000+08:00","text":"遵照辦理，可以。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:38.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:39.086000+08:00","text":"好，文字修正的部分，你們就要提供書面了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:39.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:40.086000+08:00","text":"第 2 案沒有修正，就照案通過了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:40.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:41.086000+08:00","text":"現在繼續處理盧委員縣一所提附帶決議一案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:41.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:42.086000+08:00","text":"討論事項第一案附帶決議 3\n衛生福利部組織法第 2 條修正草案附帶決議\n為強化對原住民族健康的重視，衛生福利部應積極投入並精進原住民族各項健康照護政策。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:42.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:43.086000+08:00","text":"建議衛生福利部於本法通過後，就現行「護理及健康照護司」，名稱變更為「原住民族健康照\n護司」，並於處務規程增加原住民健康照護的定位及可見度，以示對原住民族健康之重視。","quality":0},{"speaker":"提案人","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:43.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:44.086000+08:00","text":"盧縣一  林倩綺  王育敏","quality":0},{"speaker":"盧委員縣一","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:44.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:45.086000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，剛才有聽到伍委員跟衛福部部長講到，他們也同意，希望能夠在「司」這\n個層級，因為這是一個最基本的要求，不僅比較不激進，而且也比較務實，能夠做最基本、最\n應該的制度回應，因為從 112 年 6 月 21 號原健法三讀通過之後，就希望能有一個專責機構，我\n們一直在等，可是等了這麼久，都沒有一個所謂相對應的層級，目前還是在原住民離島科，所\n以我希望能夠將「護理及健康照護司」名稱變更為「護理及原住民族健康司」。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:45.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:46.086000+08:00","text":"好，請問衛福部，針對盧縣一委員所提附帶決議一案，有沒有什麼補充說明或意見？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:46.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:47.086000+08:00","text":"439\n立法院公報 第 115卷 第 30期 黨團協商紀錄","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:47.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:48.086000+08:00","text":"可以接受。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:48.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:49.086000+08:00","text":"那就照案通過。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:49.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:50.086000+08:00","text":"另外，我們繼續處理伍麗華委員所提附帶決議。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:50.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:51.086000+08:00","text":"討論事項第一案附帶決議 4\n衛生福利部組織法第 2 條修正草案附帶決議\n衛生福利部應在本席積極促成的原民健康法實踐原住民健康平權，持續積極投入並精進原住\n民族各項健康照護政策的落實。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:51.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:52.086000+08:00","text":"建議衛生福利部於本法通過後，就衛福部處務規程提升原住民健康照護的定位及可見度，以\n表示對原住民族健康之重視。","quality":0},{"speaker":"提案人","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:52.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:53.086000+08:00","text":"陳 瑩  伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe","quality":0},{"speaker":"連署人","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:53.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:54.086000+08:00","text":"莊瑞雄  范 雲","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:54.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:55.086000+08:00","text":"請問伍麗華委員有沒有補充說明？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:55.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:56.086000+08:00","text":"伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 委員：謝謝主席。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:56.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:57.086000+08:00","text":"我延續剛才的發言，最主要就是希望衛福部能夠在\n本席及很多委員 112年 6 月積極促成通過的原住民族健康法的基礎之上，持續投入資源，並且要\n精進各項原住民族健康照護政策，以縮減健康不平等。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:57.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:58.086000+08:00","text":"所以本席在此希望檢討現行的衛福部處\n務規程，新設一個「原住民族健康及照護司」，全面提升原住民族健康照護在行政體系內的組\n織定位還有政策的可見度，彰顯政府對原住民族健康權益的重視，以上。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:58.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:59.086000+08:00","text":"謝謝伍麗華委員的說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:59.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:00.086000+08:00","text":"衛福部對於伍麗華委員所提的附帶決議有沒有意見或補充說明？","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:00.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:01.086000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，是不是可以按照剛剛盧縣一委員提案中的名稱來處理，可以嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:01.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:02.086000+08:00","text":"伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 委員：什麼名稱？","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:02.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:03.086000+08:00","text":"護理及原住民族健康司。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:03.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:04.086000+08:00","text":"伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 委員：護理及原住民族健康司？對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:04.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:05.086000+08:00","text":"伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 委員：請問特別加上「護理」兩個字的原因是什麼？","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:05.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:06.086000+08:00","text":"因為原本現在就已經有了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:06.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:07.086000+08:00","text":"伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 委員：好，所以把原本的司換了後面的幾個字？","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:07.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:08.086000+08:00","text":"對，就擴充編制跟預算來努力。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:08.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:09.086000+08:00","text":"伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 委員：意思就是說，經費還是會跟「護理」share？","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:09.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:10.086000+08:00","text":"沒有，分開的，編的時候是分開編。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:10.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:11.086000+08:00","text":"伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 委員：以前是「離島」？對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:11.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:12.086000+08:00","text":"伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 委員：現在「離島」兩字改成「護理」？","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:12.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:13.086000+08:00","text":"沒有，本來就沒有「離島」、本來就沒有這個名稱，本來就只有「護理」這個名稱而\n已。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:13.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:14.086000+08:00","text":"伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 委員：以前是「離島」跟「原住民族」嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:14.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:15.086000+08:00","text":"440\n立法院公報 第 115卷 第 30期 黨團協商紀錄","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:15.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:16.086000+08:00","text":"那個是「科」，現在名稱變成是「司」。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:16.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:17.086000+08:00","text":"伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 委員：現在是「司」的時候，前面還是要掛一個東西就對了？","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:17.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:18.086000+08:00","text":"沒有辦\n法獨立？","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:18.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:19.086000+08:00","text":"這已經算是獨立了，因為……\n伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 委員：可是我聽到「護理」，而「護理」是一個主體！","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:19.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:20.086000+08:00","text":"也不是，它也只是兩個科。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:20.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:21.086000+08:00","text":"伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 委員：「護理」是一個主體，還要跟人家併科，然後變成「司」？","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:21.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:22.086000+08:00","text":"併在一個司，但不是併科，是分開的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:22.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:23.086000+08:00","text":"伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 委員：我當然是希望獨立一點，我還是希望能夠新設，希望能夠獨立\n一點啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:23.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:24.086000+08:00","text":"我們會逐步再擴充編制。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:24.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:25.086000+08:00","text":"伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 委員：逐步來做。對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:25.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:26.086000+08:00","text":"謝謝衛福部的說明，但是也不能只有你們兩個這樣講一講就好，請提出書面，盧委員原本就\n有提，你現在又要增加，所以就看要怎麼併進去。","quality":0.054},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:00.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:00.586000+08:00","text":"……就是得到……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:00.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:01.586000+08:00","text":"OK……\n伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 委員：沒有啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:01.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:02.586000+08:00","text":"我們能夠得到最好的就用，不要得到次要的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:02.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:03.586000+08:00","text":"這樣就照……\n伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 委員：對啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:03.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:04.586000+08:00","text":"本來「原住民族健康署」就可以了，結果「原住民族健\n康司」還要加上「護理」……","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:04.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:05.586000+08:00","text":"上述是伍麗華委員的意見，所以就依照盧縣一委員所提附帶決議通過，這樣有意見嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:05.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:06.586000+08:00","text":"對，按盧委員所提的。可以。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:06.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:07.586000+08:00","text":"請教一件事，我本來很認真在研究這些密密麻麻的法案，突然聽到「護理」兩個字，\n耳朵就豎起來，像是從夢中驚醒的感覺……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:07.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:08.586000+08:00","text":"因為我們本來就有一個叫做「護理及健康照護司」，所以是不受影響的嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:08.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:09.586000+08:00","text":"好，不受\n影響，只是另外的司前面加了「護理」兩個字？","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:09.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:10.586000+08:00","text":"伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 委員：是合併喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:10.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:11.586000+08:00","text":"因為本來的護理就不是只有一個司，業務不是獨立的，裡面也是有兩個科在負責，另\n外的則是負責離島還有偏鄉，現在我們只是把長照業務移出，然後讓原住民族的健康業務擴大\n。","quality":0.014},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:11.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:12.586000+08:00","text":"這樣我聽懂了，謝謝邱委員還有石部長的補充說明，你們這樣沒辦法處理，附帶決議若你們\n441\n立法院公報 第 115卷 第 30期 黨團協商紀錄\n要併的話，還是要有一個文字出來，比方說你們要增加一些文字嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:12.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:13.586000+08:00","text":"除非你要跟別人併，然後\n內容完全都沒有改變。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:13.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:14.586000+08:00","text":"接下來處理第 5案，就是伍麗華委員所提附帶決議第 2案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:14.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:15.586000+08:00","text":"討論事項第一案附帶決議 5\n衛生福利部組織法第 2 條修正草案附帶決議\n為落實《原住民族健康法》之精神，積極促成原住民族健康平權，衛生福利部應強化組織職\n能，提升原住民族健康照護之組織定位。","quality":0.012},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:15.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:16.586000+08:00","text":"請衛生福利部應在本席積極促成通過之《原住民族健\n康法》基礎上，持續投入資源並精進各項原住民族健康照護政策，以縮減健康不平等。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:16.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:17.586000+08:00","text":"請檢討現行「衛生福利部處務規程」，新設「原住民族健康及照護司」，並全面提升原住民\n族健康照護在行政體系內之組織定位及政策可見度，以彰顯政府對原住民族健康權益之堅定重\n視。","quality":0.027},{"speaker":"提案人","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:17.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:18.586000+08:00","text":"伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe    莊瑞雄","quality":0},{"speaker":"連署人","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:18.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:19.586000+08:00","text":"范 雲  林月琴","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:19.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:20.586000+08:00","text":"衛福部應該有看到，有沒有補充說明呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:20.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:21.586000+08:00","text":"你們的意見是怎樣呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:21.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:22.586000+08:00","text":"看起來還好，你們幫部長看\n一下，看看這樣的文字要不要修正，不然我就要過了喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:22.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:23.586000+08:00","text":"每一位委員大家都非常用心把整個法\n制面予以完整，讓你們好做事，並有一個法源的依據，但看起來你們都沒有準備喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:23.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:24.586000+08:00","text":"沒有效率……","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:24.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:25.586000+08:00","text":"我們儘量讓大家的關注面都能夠儘量地滿足啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:25.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:26.586000+08:00","text":"你們把附帶決議的文字再整理一下，好不好\n？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:26.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:27.586000+08:00","text":"我們本來是很有效率的，可是看來你們都沒有準備。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:27.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:28.586000+08:00","text":"這樣就保留啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:28.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:29.586000+08:00","text":"沒問題就……","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:29.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:30.586000+08:00","text":"我也可以都保留，但我希望今天能夠完成，因為大家的意見都整合得差不多了，你們將文字\n趕快整理一下，稍後我們再回來討論，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:30.586000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:31.586000+08:00","text":"此外，剛才第二條的文字也還沒給我，這一部\n法律好不容易三黨委員大家都有一致性的看法，現在只是文字上的調整而已。","quality":0.02},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:02.786000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:06.667000+08:00","text":"好，我先處理衛生福利部組織法第八條：本法施行日期，由行政院以命令定之。","quality":0.581},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:07.307000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:10:56.414000+08:00","text":"本法中華民\n國一百零七年五月二十九日修正條文，自公布日施行……本法中華民國一百一十五年○月○日\n修正條文施行日期，由行政院以命令定之……文字剛好跟我剛才唸的一樣，若大家沒意見，就\n按照修正條文通過。","quality":0.724},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:10:56.414000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:11:11.368000+08:00","text":"附帶決議就保留了喔？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:11:11.368000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:11:26.322000+08:00","text":"你們沒有提文字、沒有提書面……\n伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 委員：先保留。","quality":0.297},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:11:26.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:11:29.725000+08:00","text":"不然就只有你們在講……\n伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 委員：因為我還是想知道經費規模、人員編制……","quality":0.34},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:11:29.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:11:41.855000+08:00","text":"沒關係，讓他們再去說明，現在就是你們要的，總是條文要提出來，我們這邊才可以處理，\n主席總不能宣告就照你們聊天的內容通過啊！","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:11:42.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:11:42.496000+08:00","text":"應該要有文字出來才對。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:11:42.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:11:43.156000+08:00","text":"好，先保留。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:11:48.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:12:26.360000+08:00","text":"接著進行主題二，併案協商司法及法制、社會福利及衛生環境兩委員會報告併案審查行政院\n函請審議、委員林月琴等 20 人……後面一堆委員提案就不唸了，分別擬具「衛生福利部兒少及\n442\n立法院公報 第 115卷 第 30期 黨團協商紀錄\n家庭支持署組織法草案」，一共有 14 案；還有委員許宇甄等 17 人、委員沈發惠等 17 人之提案\n，分別經第 4 次及第 5 次院會決定逕付二讀，與相關提案併案協商，以上一共有三個案，今天\n我們併案協商。","quality":0.728},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:12:35.477000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:12:46.263000+08:00","text":"審查會在 1 月 19 號審查完竣，審查的結果跟大家報告，除第二條、第三條跟附帶決議三案保\n留以外，其餘均依審查結果通過，並決議須交由黨團協商。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:12:46.343000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:13:07.037000+08:00","text":"我們為了求效率，是不是就保留的\n部分來進行討論，其他有共識的部分就不要再說了，就按照審查會的審查結果通過，如果各位\n協商代表對於審查會通過的條文有意見，我們就等保留條文處理完畢後再接續進行處理。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:13:07.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:13:09.280000+08:00","text":"請問\n各位，有沒有意見？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:13:09.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:13:09.460000+08:00","text":"可以嗎？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:13:09.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:13:35.390000+08:00","text":"（無）好，現在我們開始進行本案保留條文的討論，審查會保留\n兩條，需要協商的有兩條，我們從第二條開始，第二條有兩個修正動議，分別由台灣民眾黨跟\n林月琴委員提出，先請林月琴委員發言。","quality":0.779},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-09T13:13:42.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:14:02.539000+08:00","text":"我有幾個問題要就教，首先，本來是「研訂」，後來改成「研擬」，如果是「研擬」\n，事實上側重的是初步的擬訂，是一個從無到有以及提出草案的過程，你們是主管機關，且你\n們前面是寫「研訂」，為什麼後來變成是「研擬」？","quality":0.728},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-09T13:14:03.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:14:06.902000+08:00","text":"所以我對這個部分有這樣一個意見。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-09T13:14:07.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:14:44.225000+08:00","text":"另外，之前我就有提這個修正動議，可是你們並沒有納入，所以今天我又再提出來，也就是\n說，本來這一次成立兒家署，我們覺得很重要的意義在於表意權這一塊和社會參與，本來我們\n就是列出「兒童、少年權益之發展與促進及其參與公共事務相關政策之評估、規劃、推動與執\n行及相關法規之研訂」，但當初我們提修正動議進來的時候，為何你們衛福部還是把它剔除？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-09T13:14:44.705000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:14:54.830000+08:00","text":"所以我今天又再提出來，要符合兒權公約的精神，這是非常重要的，不知道為什麼會把它丟掉\n了？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-09T13:14:57.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:15:20.743000+08:00","text":"再來，關於你們提出來的版本跟我的版本的差異點，即針對網路安全這一塊，我的版本是「\n兒童、少年隱私權保障、網路使用安全及風險防制政策之評估、規劃、推動與執行相關法規之\n研訂」，可是你們的版本卻變成只剩下「協調」，請問你跟誰協調？","quality":0.68},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-09T13:15:21.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:15:28.505000+08:00","text":"本來兒家署的成立是很希\n望能夠解決網路安全的問題，結果卻變成是一個協調單位嗎？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-09T13:15:28.866000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:15:32.107000+08:00","text":"其工作內容就只是一個協調嗎？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-09T13:15:32.707000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:15:46.352000+08:00","text":"最後是你們提出的第六款「兒童及少年遊憩、遊戲及休閒政策之推動與協調」，一樣的，你\n們提出來的只剩下「協調」而已。","quality":0.66},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-09T13:15:46.352000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:15:58.455000+08:00","text":"另外我要問的是，「休閒」是上位概念，「遊憩、遊戲」事\n實上是下層的概念，所以我不知道說當初文字這樣子訂的考量是什麼？","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-09T13:15:59.675000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:16:07.057000+08:00","text":"從定義來看，因為「休\n閒」就囊括「遊憩、遊戲」，所以我不知道你們這樣全部列出來的考量是什麼，以上。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:16:07.057000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:16:08.057000+08:00","text":"謝謝林月琴委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:16:08.057000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:16:09.057000+08:00","text":"台灣民眾黨也有提修正動議，你們有沒有補充說明？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-09T13:16:07.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:16:10.361000+08:00","text":"主席、各位委員，大家好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-09T13:16:10.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:16:54.989000+08:00","text":"我來唸一下我們的第二條第二款，就是在「兒童、少年保\n護、安置」之後，加了「偏差行為防治與輔導」這幾個字，為什麼我們會加了「偏差行為防治\n與輔導」？","quality":0.831},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-09T13:16:54.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:17:26.468000+08:00","text":"因為有一些偏差行為的小孩，原本是由內政部警政署下面的少輔會針對這類型的兒\n少進行輔導，但因為內政部警政署在處理這一塊比較欠缺專業，所以有一些偏差行為的小孩，\n即使經過了他們的輔導跟教化，其實相關的成效並不高，因為他們欠缺專業。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-09T13:17:27.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:17:54.672000+08:00","text":"最有名的案例就\n是前一陣子的新北割頸案，那個殺人的兇手、殺人的少年，曾多次進出少年觀護所，在少年觀\n護所中可能沒有得到非常好的輔導、教育、教化、感化，變成他再出來的時候，又犯了一個滔\n443\n立法院公報 第 115卷 第 30期 黨團協商紀錄\n天大錯。","quality":0.735},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-09T13:17:55.173000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:18:07.124000+08:00","text":"這讓我們去思考到，是不是對於偏差行為的少年，我們真的是要深入的、專業的去輔\n導他們，希望他們的行為能夠改正，避免為社會的治安埋下一個隱憂的炸彈。","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-09T13:18:07.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:18:40.491000+08:00","text":"所以我們才想，\n這麼專業的事也不是任何人都可以做的，必須仰賴專業的人員來協助，而我們的衛福部當然就\n是充滿了這些專業的人員可以來進行這件事，所以我們才把偏差行為防治與輔導的業務放到兒\n少及家庭支持署裡面，其實完全都是專業考量，也希望讓少年能夠得到專業的照顧之後迷途知\n返，以上說明，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:18:40.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:18:42.854000+08:00","text":"社環的委員都很會說、都很專業，其實衛福部也很厲害，所以專業對專業，儘量滿足\n各位的要求。","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:18:42.994000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:18:43.655000+08:00","text":"接下來請王正旭委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T13:18:54.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:18:58.852000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席對社環委員會的美言，真的，每個委員都非常的用心。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T13:19:00.454000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:19:51.320000+08:00","text":"針對第二條第八款，\n從原來的「兒童、少年福利機構業務之監督、輔導及考核」，現在修正為「兒童及少年之生命\n統計、健康促進、預防保健、事故傷害防制及醫療照護政策之規劃、推動、執行及協調」，非\n常感謝大家共同支持，能夠把「協調」正式納入法律條文裡面，我們之前一直在強調協調工作\n本身的重要性，很希望大家把這個支持的內容真正化為法律上的文字，再度感謝大家的支持，\n謝謝。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:19:53.869000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:19:56.451000+08:00","text":"謝謝王正旭委員，我們現在就請衛福部石部長……","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-09T13:19:56.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:19:57.132000+08:00","text":"我可不可以再補充？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-09T13:19:57.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:19:57.212000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-09T13:19:57.773000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:19:58.914000+08:00","text":"因為剛才有一些討論，也有一些決定了，所以在這邊就把我的立場也做一\n個表述。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-09T13:19:59.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:20:21.792000+08:00","text":"對於原住民族健康的部分，其實在這次的組織法裡面……雖然我之前也表述過，但我\n還是針對第二條的區塊做一些補充。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-09T13:20:22.713000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:20:33.838000+08:00","text":"雖然剛才也有一些階段性的結論，但我認為把原住民族的\n健康跟一般事務混同在一起，在政策治理上還是有一些不足。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-09T13:20:34.659000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:21:10.151000+08:00","text":"本席先前也一直表達原住民平均\n餘命這樣的階段性問題，其實如果在這一次的組織法裡面能夠加以處理也是很好的，我這邊的\n訴求是醫療的問題不是只有單一的問題，同時也涉及文化安全、健康不平等、長照適切性及人\n才培育的問題，但是從第二條看起來，有關原住民的部分好像還是被附帶處理的，我希望未來\n能夠走向制度的承擔。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-09T13:21:11.691000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:21:33.308000+08:00","text":"這次新增的兒少及家庭支持當然也很重要，但是針對原住民的部分，本席還是要表達雖然剛\n才有一些結果，但是我覺得司、處的層級還是不足以回應整個社會的複雜性，所以在中長期我\n們還是希望能夠上升到專責機關的層級。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-09T13:21:33.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:21:51.396000+08:00","text":"關於原住民族的健康，雖然今天經過大家的討論，目\n前有共識，可是我還是希望未來能夠到署這樣的層級，針對原住民的健康餘命現在還沒有達到\n標準的狀況，能夠做一些中長期的規劃。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-09T13:21:52.176000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:22:01.099000+08:00","text":"總之我還是比較希望成立原住民族健康署，呼應我以\n前所提出來的論點，這邊再做個回應，當然我也尊重大家今天的決議。","quality":0.82},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:22:01.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:22:08.981000+08:00","text":"謝謝林倩綺委員用心良苦，我們也提醒衛福部，其實這個部分對原住民族的健康也可以加強\n。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:22:08.981000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:22:20.968000+08:00","text":"接下來請張雅琳委員，張雅琳委員發言完之後，再請王育敏委員。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:22:20.968000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:22:32.310000+08:00","text":"444\n立法院公報 第 115卷 第 30期 黨團協商紀錄","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-04-09T13:22:32.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:22:47.042000+08:00","text":"針對衛福部兒少及家庭支持署組織法第二條第六款，關於兒少遊憩、遊戲及休閒政策\n，我原本提案這樣子寫的原因我也簡單說明一下，讓各位委員更了解。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-04-09T13:22:47.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:23:08.499000+08:00","text":"其實我是參考 CRC 的原\n文，他是有時間去休息、休閒、遊戲及遊憩，CRC 的原文是這樣寫，所以我在立法的時候就這\n樣寫，因為它對應到的就是兒童遊戲發展這一塊的政策核心，另外還有空間和設施，也就是遊\n憩，至於休閒就是時間及生活型態。","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-04-09T13:23:09.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:23:16.746000+08:00","text":"我當時提案是這樣的概念，不曉得衛福部是不是也是參考\n這樣子的立法來做這一次條文上的修正？謝謝。","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:23:16.746000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:23:17.746000+08:00","text":"你們都很會說，但可不可以不要說那麼多？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:23:17.746000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:23:18.746000+08:00","text":"我趕快讓你們過，我知道你們要什麼，這樣好不\n好？","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:23:18.746000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:23:19.746000+08:00","text":"請王育敏委員。謝謝。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:23:18.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:23:40.418000+08:00","text":"在我原來的版本裡面，事實上有把少子化，特別是生育相關政策列入，我的版\n本裡面是有的，現在衛福部的版本卻都沒有看到。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:23:41.399000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:23:51.051000+08:00","text":"另外一個是有關於觸法及曝險兒童少年的處\n遇服務，你們這邊是用「兒童及少年輔導之統籌」，我不曉得這一塊是不是就已經涵蓋？","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:23:52.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:24:47.621000+08:00","text":"另外，現在所討論的第二條，事實上很重要的是關乎到未來整個兒少家庭署的處務規程、內\n部單位的分工及組織，所以針對這個部分我有提一個附帶決議，這裡面總共分了六組，也就是\n六個組別，我希望討論第二條的時候，跟後面的附帶決議也應該是要連動的，不太可能在後面\n我們希望的組別任務是有的，但是在前面的第二條裡面卻是沒有寫入的，譬如針對少子化，我\n認為將來在政策規劃的時候，少子化是很重要的一塊，如果未來在這一個組織架構裡面，我們\n希望綜合企劃有包含少子化這一塊，但是在前端其實都沒有寫到，那麼這一塊是不是應該要有\n一些文字修正？","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:24:48.802000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:25:03.018000+08:00","text":"這部分我希望等一下部長可以回應，針對我提出來的這一個架構，分組要執行\n的業務內容，你們有什麼樣的意見？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:25:03.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:25:05.320000+08:00","text":"究竟是同意，還是有一些要修正？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:25:05.801000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:25:07.142000+08:00","text":"是不是可以一併回應？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:25:07.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:25:08.824000+08:00","text":"其實這個跟前面的第二條非常關鍵。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:25:08.824000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:25:08.884000+08:00","text":"以上，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:25:08.884000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:25:18.647000+08:00","text":"請石崇良部長，請不要講太久，我已經嫌他們多話了，你不要比他們還多話。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T13:25:18.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:26:10.277000+08:00","text":"簡單跟委員會報告，第一個，少子女化我們沒有把它寫在兒家署組織法裡面，主要因\n為它是要更高層級，我們的任務主要是對育兒者跟兒童的福利儘量提升，這是這個署要扮演的\n角色，對育兒者跟兒童的照顧要提升，所以我們才沒有特別去明定少子女化相關規定，因為並\n不是這個署就有辦法解決少子女化的問題，這個議題在行政院層級有一個跨部會的會議在討論\n，因為它對應的政策很多，包含住宅政策、包含職場友善、包含勞力的……","quality":0.876},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:26:10.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:26:16.283000+08:00","text":"沒錯，但是對應到衛福部，你自己要有一個在思考這件事情的單位，你要放在哪裡？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:26:16.883000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:26:17.663000+08:00","text":"你懂我的意思嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:26:17.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:26:20.144000+08:00","text":"當然少子化涉及到很多，那衛福部也……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T13:26:20.524000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:26:24.185000+08:00","text":"本部的業務也不只是只有這個署，應該是在部裡面也是有跨……","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:26:25.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:26:26.066000+08:00","text":"所以是哪個單位？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:26:28.747000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:26:31.388000+08:00","text":"衛福部下面還有哪個單位在思考少子化這件事情？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T13:26:32.692000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:26:37.138000+08:00","text":"我們就是由綜合規劃來處理，這是屬於跨部門的……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:26:37.638000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:26:38.259000+08:00","text":"衛福部綜合規劃司？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T13:26:38.259000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:26:40.342000+08:00","text":"對啊，如果是跨部門屬於部的層級……","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:26:41.303000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:26:43.005000+08:00","text":"不會放進去嘛，對不對？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:26:43.005000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:26:44.005000+08:00","text":"445\n立法院公報 第 115卷 第 30期 黨團協商紀錄","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T13:26:43.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:26:43.606000+08:00","text":"對，就是在綜合規劃……","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:26:43.947000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:26:47.732000+08:00","text":"綜合規劃司會有，就是不放在兒家署，你自己會有……","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T13:26:47.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:26:52.097000+08:00","text":"對，我們目前相關的政策上在提的時候也都是跨部門討論，那……","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:26:54.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:27:03.969000+08:00","text":"謝謝石部長的說明，我們現在來處理，第二條就按照協商參考條文通過，大家有沒有意見？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:27:03.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:27:04.890000+08:00","text":"沒有意見的話，我們就通過。再來……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-09T13:27:04.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:27:10.677000+08:00","text":"不好意思，剛剛還沒回答我關於「研訂」、「研擬」的問題。","quality":0.65},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-09T13:27:13.704000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:27:29.327000+08:00","text":"還有一個就是我原本有\n列的，因為我覺得要符合兒權公約很重要的精神在於我本來有寫的兒童及少年權益發展及促進\n參與公共事務這一項。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T13:27:30.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:27:46.976000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，「研訂」和「研擬」是法規用字，因為它不見得只有訂，而是研擬，因\n為有些涉及到還要立法，立法的話要到立法院，不是我們訂出來就可以，所以現在的文字上都\n是用「研擬」，而不再用「研訂」。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-09T13:27:46.976000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:27:48.357000+08:00","text":"沒關係，最重要的是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T13:27:48.357000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:27:55.922000+08:00","text":"至於有一款是兒少權益之發展及促進，這個我們可以接受把它新增進去就好，也就是\n新增一款。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-09T13:27:56.462000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:28:13.275000+08:00","text":"另外還有一個你們寫的，我覺得針對網路安全，你們不會只剩下協調這個工作，所有\n的東西都寫你們會推動執行，尤其網路安全現在是重中之重，怎麼今天成立了兒家署，結果你\n們只剩下一個政策協調的工作？","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-09T13:28:14.616000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:28:17.517000+08:00","text":"你們的政策不要執行，也不要去做任何事情，然後只剩下協調\n嗎？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T13:28:17.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:28:21.419000+08:00","text":"好，那就改成「之研擬及跨機關政策協調」。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-09T13:28:21.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:28:21.659000+08:00","text":"還要執行啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-09T13:28:21.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:28:21.719000+08:00","text":"規劃跟執行……","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T13:28:22.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:28:25.720000+08:00","text":"如果全部都推給我們，我們也……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T13:28:26.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:28:26.120000+08:00","text":"對，第二條。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-09T13:28:26.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:28:39.696000+08:00","text":"第十三款……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T13:28:43.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:28:56.812000+08:00","text":"我們可以接受林月琴委員所提修正動議第七款的兒少發展及促進參與公共事務的部分\n，我們等一下把文字寫出來新增一款。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T13:28:57.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:28:58.493000+08:00","text":"最後一個是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:28:59.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:29:08.742000+08:00","text":"針對第二條，主席在這個地方更正，照理說你們早就應該要講好了，這是協商條文，哪有讓\n你們在這裡聊天的？","quality":0.682},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:29:10.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:29:16.469000+08:00","text":"這本來就是要幫大家做處理的，所以剛剛主席的宣告更正，口誤、講得太\n快。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:29:16.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:29:23.374000+08:00","text":"請趕快把文字拿出來，要有文字好不好？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:29:25.576000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:29:35.584000+08:00","text":"本來是給你們協商參考條文做參考，結果你們現\n在講一講，雖然主席可以更正，但是你們必須把文字拿出來。","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:29:35.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:29:39.127000+08:00","text":"我們先來處理第三條。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:29:39.127000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:29:40.868000+08:00","text":"針對第三條，台灣民眾黨提出修正動議，現在請台灣民眾黨補充說明\n一下。","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:29:40.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:29:58.022000+08:00","text":"不然我直接問好了，請問部長你們對台灣民眾黨所提的修正動議有意見嗎？","quality":0.484},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-09T13:29:58.022000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:30:12.632000+08:00","text":"我們希望還是能夠保留用人的彈性，不要只能以公職任用，希望可以有比照任用的模\n446\n立法院公報 第 115卷 第 30期 黨團協商紀錄\n式。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:30:16.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:30:21.857000+08:00","text":"陳昭姿委員，這部分就照衛福部的意見好不好？","quality":0.684},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:30:21.857000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:30:34.133667+08:00","text":"針對台灣民眾黨所提的修正動議，我們就照\n行政院的意見好不好？","quality":0.259},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-04-09T13:30:34.133667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:30:46.410333+08:00","text":"我們在審所有的組織法都是這樣啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-04-09T13:30:46.410333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:30:58.687000+08:00","text":"我們不希望比照，基本上我們希望由常任官員擔\n任副署長，上個會期我們審查所有的組織法幾乎都是用這個原則。主席……","quality":0.041},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:30:58.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:31:05.651000+08:00","text":"實在是想讓大家和和氣氣，你們要的讓你們滿足，因為我們叫做「司法及法制委員會」，我\n們沒有跟你們吵過你知不知道？","quality":0.729},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:31:06.071000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:31:11.974000+08:00","text":"是你們要的，我們就儘量滿足各位，不要到現在還在爭執，不\n然我就只好送出去了，我是要讓大家比較高興一點、讓今天的案子趕快通過耶！","quality":0.661},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:31:13.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:31:13.715000+08:00","text":"陳昭姿委員，可以嗎？","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:31:13.715000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:31:31.973000+08:00","text":"按照行政院的版本可以嗎？","quality":0.273},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:31:31.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:31:35.874000+08:00","text":"主席建議是不是按照行政院的提案通過？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-09T13:31:36.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:31:49.945000+08:00","text":"不好意思，就我們討論的結果，因為我們希望常任文官的制度能夠健全發展，所以這\n一條我們要保留。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:31:50.405000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:32:03.991000+08:00","text":"其實我也認為應該要健全，因為常任文官跟政務官現在剛好涉入到各個政黨之間太緊張，大\n家都過度攻防，不然的話，其實政務官的部分未必叫做不健全。","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:32:05.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:32:14.015000+08:00","text":"每個政黨都希望比較有彈性，\n應該去監督這個人來是不是酬庸，譬如你把我莊瑞雄放到衛福部去，當然就是酬庸啊！","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:32:15.856000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:32:17.857000+08:00","text":"不是這\n樣嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:32:18.037000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:32:20.559000+08:00","text":"既然你堅持這個部分，那就遵照你們的意思好不好？","quality":0.476},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:32:20.759000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:32:24.662000+08:00","text":"今天是希望讓這個法制趕快完備，\n那麼這一條我們就先保留。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:32:24.662000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:32:30.315000+08:00","text":"接下來處理附帶決議，我們保留的附帶決議有三案，從第一案開始，因為第一案、第二案跟台\n灣民眾黨黨團今天在協商會議所提的附帶決議一案，還有張雅琳委員所提附帶決議一案，內容均\n與未來衛生福利部兒少及家庭支持署的內部單位分工跟職掌建議有相關，所以我們就一併討論及\n處理。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:32:30.315000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:33:03.098000+08:00","text":"現在請提案委員先補充說明，請張雅琳委員。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-04-09T13:33:03.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:33:23.135000+08:00","text":"我跟衛福部已經討論好了，基本上我們希望有一定的編制，不能用三級機關的名義來\n壓縮，要有資訊專業的員額以及研究跟政策的專業員額，基本上衛福部都同意，只是他們希望\n可以改成書面報告，這部分我也沒有意見。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:33:24.236000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:33:24.256000+08:00","text":"台灣民眾黨沒有說明。","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:33:24.256000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:33:35.296000+08:00","text":"請王育敏委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:33:35.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:33:44.920000+08:00","text":"我的是第 1案，我剛剛有講過我的版本有分六個組別，事實上這也是民間兒少團體希\n望的架構。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:33:45.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:34:24.915000+08:00","text":"現在大家都很想要知道……兒少家庭署其實非常關鍵，也是這一次組織調整的重中\n之重，不曉得到目前為止，依照衛福部的初步規劃，包括人員、包括是不是這樣的架構組別，\n這樣至少是六組的情況，我想衛福部應該向外界提出一個說明，因為今天已經審到這邊，我想\n多位委員提出來的附帶決議都是跟組織架構有關、跟組別有關、跟其中的任務功能有關，到底\n現在衛福部自己的版本大概是什麼樣的架構？","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:34:24.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:34:25.776000+08:00","text":"為什麼部長突然不見了？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:34:25.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:34:29.339000+08:00","text":"請衛福部說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:34:29.339000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:34:34.383000+08:00","text":"447\n立法院公報 第 115卷 第 30期 黨團協商紀錄","quality":0},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-04-09T13:34:34.383000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:35:06.287000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，目前衛福部在規劃未來的兒少及家庭支持署細部組別組織的部分，我們\n整個規劃架構確實是以六個組的方向來規劃，不過六個組裡面有一些細部的事項，與各個委員\n附帶決議的內容事項所放的組別稍微有些不一樣，這個部分到時候我們會再討論做一些整理，\n但目前基本上是以六個組的方向在討論及規劃。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:35:06.287000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:35:10.791000+08:00","text":"人員大概多少人？","quality":0},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-04-09T13:35:10.791000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:35:25.924000+08:00","text":"關於人員的部分，現有的工作人員都會移撥，也在評估未來比較長期的人力發展需要\n，不過未來確定的組織以及人力的部分，還需要跟人事總處做相關人力的爭取，以上。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-04-09T13:35:34.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:35:46.649000+08:00","text":"其實我還有一個附帶決議是跟組織架構有關，我這邊有強調原則上每一組不得少於四\n科，以確保人力配置充足，這部分應該也是沒有問題對不對？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-04-09T13:35:49.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:35:50.424000+08:00","text":"我們會盡力爭取。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:35:52.985000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:36:02.027000+08:00","text":"依據衛福部的協商參考條文、附帶決議的部分以及台灣民眾黨的意見，你們寫一個版本出來\n好不好？","quality":0.78},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-04-09T13:36:02.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:36:03.527000+08:00","text":"報告主席，我們正在整理。趕快！","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:36:04.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:36:04.647000+08:00","text":"要給我文字！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:36:04.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:36:05.388000+08:00","text":"文字改好了嗎？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:36:55.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:37:13.813000+08:00","text":"按照林月琴委員所提版本第二條……這也要印給大家，每一位委員都要有才\n可以，我簽沒有問題，但是其他委員也都要看到啊！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:37:23.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:37:27.496000+08:00","text":"儘量把大家的意見放進去，但是文字要整\n理。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:37:27.496000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:37:30.677000+08:00","text":"請邱慧洳委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-09T13:37:30.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:37:30.837000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-09T13:37:32.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:38:04.635000+08:00","text":"台灣民眾黨在這邊補充說明，兒少家庭署會有六個內部單位，六個內部單\n位當然就涉及分工跟職掌的相關說明，針對第二個內部單位，也就是兒少保護安置組，我們有\n加進去一個兒少偏差行為防治輔導的業務項目，這是台灣民眾黨加進去的。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-04-09T13:38:05.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:38:44.067000+08:00","text":"除此之外，在第一個內部單位，也就是兒少健康組，它有寫防治照顧，括號後面本來是講含\n菸害防制，但是因為我們覺得少年可能不只有遭受菸害的襲擊，在日常生活或校園內也會接觸\n到一些非法物質濫用的可能性，所以我們就把比較侷限的名詞「菸害」擴大成「非法物質濫用\n」，非法物質濫用就可以把一些東西涵蓋進去，可能是毒品、可能是菸或其他都涵蓋進去，以\n上說明。謝謝。","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:38:44.067000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:38:55.437000+08:00","text":"我要再次強調說明，因為今天審查的是組織法，所以才會在司法及法制委員會，不然\n應該是在衛環委員會，這是你們最在意的。","quality":0.686},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:38:56.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:39:06.688000+08:00","text":"召委是儘量滿足大家，只是因為組織法，所以必須\n由我來排，我儘量把你們納進來，我這樣苦口婆心，你們如果不要，那麼等一下就保留送出去\n了。","quality":0.69},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:39:07.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:39:10.991000+08:00","text":"我本來是要讓你們開開心心，讓你們等一下可以在這裡拍照，如果你們不要，那我就要保\n留送出去了。","quality":0.561},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:39:11.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:39:12.091000+08:00","text":"我已經很盡力在協商了，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:39:12.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:39:14.733000+08:00","text":"我不知道你們沒說好，我本來想如果條文你們\n都已經說好了，那麼衛福部擬一擬提出來，我唸一唸，大家就都高興了。","quality":0.617},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:39:31.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:39:45.712000+08:00","text":"我們繼續來處理保留的附帶決議第三案，請問提案委員有補充說明嗎？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:39:45.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:39:47.834000+08:00","text":"剛剛我們提的附帶決議是通過還是怎麼樣？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:39:47.834000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:39:50.475000+08:00","text":"448\n立法院公報 第 115卷 第 30期 黨團協商紀錄","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:39:50.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:39:52.317000+08:00","text":"所有的附帶決議都保留嗎？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:39:54.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:39:55.079000+08:00","text":"附帶決議你們不是說沒有問題嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:39:55.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:40:03.034000+08:00","text":"沒有，之前兩個沒有問題，你們就把文字提出來嘛，剛剛那案保留了，你們就有意見啊！","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:40:03.034000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:40:04.034000+08:00","text":"哪一案？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:40:03.715000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:40:04.675000+08:00","text":"我們的附帶決議有問題嗎？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:40:04.675000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:40:06.316000+08:00","text":"沒有問題啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:40:06.617000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:40:07.497000+08:00","text":"主席，沒問題啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:40:07.497000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:40:14.342000+08:00","text":"就原來的，沒有修正。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:40:14.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:40:14.862000+08:00","text":"一案一案處理嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:40:14.862000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:40:15.862000+08:00","text":"我的這一案……","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:40:15.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:40:15.463000+08:00","text":"不是、不是！","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:40:16.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:40:21.287000+08:00","text":"審查會保留的部分，你們剛才「十喙九尻川」的一直講啊，說要再加進去，我\n就讓你們加啊，但是要加進去就要把文字給我。","quality":0.729},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-04-09T13:40:21.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:40:21.727000+08:00","text":"沒有啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-04-09T13:40:22.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:40:23.008000+08:00","text":"我們這邊有幾案已經 OK 了！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:40:23.008000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:40:36.421000+08:00","text":"衛福部到底有沒有意見？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:40:36.421000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:40:41.508000+08:00","text":"台灣民眾黨也有案子，張雅琳委員也有案子，你們大家都有案子啦，你們要用哪一個版本？","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-04-09T13:40:41.508000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:40:42.508000+08:00","text":"我們之前這個……","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:40:41.568000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:40:42.509000+08:00","text":"是嘛，問題是你們兩個的文字不一樣啊，你們要給我一個，看是要怎麼樣啊！","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:40:42.509000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:41:07.081000+08:00","text":"附帶決議不是沒有問題嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:41:07.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:41:34.667000+08:00","text":"好，我先來處理原審查報告的附帶決議第 3案，張雅琳委員也有簽名了嘛，附帶決議第 3案\n就照修正文字通過。","quality":0.558},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:41:34.667000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:41:35.667000+08:00","text":"再來，你們其他的版本……","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:41:38.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:41:39.611000+08:00","text":"請衛福部回應一下，我的提案有什麼問題？","quality":0.529},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:41:41.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:41:50.740000+08:00","text":"剛剛通過之後，林月琴委員說完，我跟你們說我做更正，是要讓你們加進去，要加進去你們\n就要有書面嘛，不是你們講好就好，我要看到書面啊！","quality":0.754},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:41:52.571000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:41:59.675000+08:00","text":"我們本來就有提附帶決議，請衛福部表示意見，如果沒有問題就可以通過啊！","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:41:59.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:42:03.737000+08:00","text":"衛福部，請針對王育敏委員的附帶決議說明有沒有意見？","quality":0.609},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-04-09T13:42:11.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:42:13.089000+08:00","text":"主席，我們要不要一案一案過啊！","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-04-09T13:42:13.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:42:13.709000+08:00","text":"就附帶決議 1……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-04-09T13:42:16.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:42:16.730000+08:00","text":"沒有、沒有，就是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:42:18.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:42:32.436000+08:00","text":"我剛剛是一案一案，本來已經過了，林月琴委員還有看法嘛，那我就更正，讓你們再提文字\n修正給我嘛，但現在主席臺還沒有看到文字啊，我怎麼宣告？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:42:32.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:42:32.836000+08:00","text":"你們不能指到我這邊來，你們要\n把文字拿給我。","quality":0.474},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:42:32.836000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:42:35.851600+08:00","text":"附帶決議應該一案一案討論，如果衛福部有意見就說有意見，沒有意見就通過。是啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:42:35.851600+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:42:38.867200+08:00","text":"你們如果還有意見的話我就要保留了喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:42:38.867200+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:42:41.882800+08:00","text":"他們如果沒有意見就通過啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:42:41.882800+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:42:44.898400+08:00","text":"我們本來就有提出附帶決議啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:42:44.898400+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:42:47.914000+08:00","text":"449\n立法院公報 第 115卷 第 30期 黨團協商紀錄\n伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 委員：主席，我的有文字了。","quality":0.133},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:42:47.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:42:51.957000+08:00","text":"不是，我是說剛剛要做文字修正的部分。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:42:51.957000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:42:52.957000+08:00","text":"那個不是我們的啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:42:52.957000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:42:53.957000+08:00","text":"伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 委員：我的已經修正了，我先好了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:42:52.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:42:54.659000+08:00","text":"等一下，我們一案一案再重來。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:42:55.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:43:10.708000+08:00","text":"我們剛才通過了……第 3案。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:43:10.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:43:14.191000+08:00","text":"第 3 案通過了，按照修正文字通過了。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:43:17.254000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:43:18.094000+08:00","text":"現在第 1案……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-09T13:43:18.094000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:43:23.139000+08:00","text":"那我的呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-04-09T13:43:23.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:43:27.903000+08:00","text":"第 1案是王育敏委員的，我們沒有問題，我們可以遵照。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:43:27.903000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:43:28.903000+08:00","text":"對啊，第 1案也通過了啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"周署長道君","start":"2026-04-09T13:43:28.903000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:43:29.903000+08:00","text":"我們可以遵照辦理。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:43:28.744000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:43:30.245000+08:00","text":"原來第 1案，你的附帶決議有三個，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-04-09T13:43:30.245000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:43:40.267000+08:00","text":"對，第 1案是我的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:43:40.267000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:43:44.350000+08:00","text":"因為你們的都跟內部單位分工跟職掌建議相關聯嘛！對啊！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:43:52.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:44:00.083000+08:00","text":"張雅琳也有、王育敏也有，這樣要照誰的版本？","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-04-09T13:44:00.083000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:44:04.598000+08:00","text":"跟主席報告一下，因為我們是之前的附帶決議啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:44:04.598000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:44:10.079000+08:00","text":"我懂，因為全部都是內部分工跟職掌，你們各有版本，我要按照哪一個版本通過？","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:44:10.079000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:44:11.079000+08:00","text":"你懂我的\n意思嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:44:11.079000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:44:12.079000+08:00","text":"我怎麼會不知道你們有附帶決議，但是也要有一個版本啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-04-09T13:44:12.079000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:44:13.079000+08:00","text":"我懂你的意思。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:44:10.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:44:12.720000+08:00","text":"因為你們的長得不一樣啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:44:12.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:44:13.380000+08:00","text":"你們三個的都通過之後，衛福部怎麼辦？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:44:33.154000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:44:33.555000+08:00","text":"你的是哪一案？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:44:34.275000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:44:40.561000+08:00","text":"伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 委員：我的是第一案的附帶決議 5，剛才保留，現在達成共識做文字\n修正。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:44:41.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:44:46.086000+08:00","text":"好，我們一案一案來，現在先處理第 2案。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-09T13:44:50.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:44:51.190000+08:00","text":"我們先把修正動議解決。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-04-09T13:44:51.190000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:44:52.190000+08:00","text":"就已經給了啊，他們剛剛……","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:44:52.031000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:44:58.497000+08:00","text":"還沒啦，這個先來，附帶決議先來。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:46:00.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:46:00.922000+08:00","text":"好，我們先休息一下。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:46:00.922000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:49:49.295000+08:00","text":"休息（13時 46 分）\n繼續開會（13時 49分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:49:49.295000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:49:51.596000+08:00","text":"我們現在繼續開會。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:49:52.997000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:50:20.987000+08:00","text":"各位請就座，主席跟大家報告，主席本來以為這個法案各個政黨大家多所關注，在衛環委員\n450\n立法院公報 第 115卷 第 30期 黨團協商紀錄\n會裡面，我以為大家都「喬」得差不多了，但今天我看到還是有很多的分歧，因為組織法相關\n的法案一定都是送到司法及法制委員會來審議，大家也知道我主持的風格，我會儘量滿足各位\n，可是因為你們這個文字弄不出來……\n伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 委員：我的已經好了。","quality":0.58},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:50:20.987000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:50:28.297000+08:00","text":"我會儘量滿足你們，我們就擇期再協商，大家……\n伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 委員：剛剛已經談好的……","quality":0.255},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:50:28.297000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:50:35.059000+08:00","text":"你不用煩惱，那個大家說好的就會照你的意見，今天講好的部分就會照這樣通過，這個不用\n擔心啦！","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:50:36.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:50:41.801000+08:00","text":"之後我們再找個時間，因為衛福部你們……等一下，你們先不要說話。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:50:41.801000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:50:48.762000+08:00","text":"衛福部，你們\n之前跟我說已經跟各政黨都說好了耶，結果哪有說好？有啦！有啦！哪有？","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:50:48.762000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:50:51.783000+08:00","text":"陳昭姿委員就沒有，怎麼會有啊？","quality":0.231},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:50:51.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:50:53.864000+08:00","text":"不然就是陳昭姿委員你太會「灰」了啦，我想說有\n耶，我是要做……","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-04-09T13:50:53.864000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:50:54.864000+08:00","text":"是他們……","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:50:54.864000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:50:55.864000+08:00","text":"沒有、沒有！","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:50:54.805000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:50:58.646000+08:00","text":"我是要做「便工課」給你們耶！","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:51:00.887000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:51:26.806000+08:00","text":"對於兒家署這個部分，我知道大家非常在意，王正旭委員、林月琴委員、張雅琳委員一直來\n跟我溝通了很多，我也儘量來滿足各位；陳昭姿委員、台灣民眾黨或者中國國民黨這邊所提出\n來的意見，我們也都非常非常尊重，但是我看這個文字今天是弄不出來了。","quality":0.856},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:51:29.808000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:51:40.322000+08:00","text":"石部長，請你再跟各黨團、跟衛環的委員再溝通一下，把文字弄出來，我再找一次時間幫你\n們通過，好不好？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:51:40.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:51:46.365000+08:00","text":"好，我們擇期再協商啦，今天協商會議就到這個地方……\n伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 委員：我這個都沒有問題，都全部同意，唸一下通過就好了，不保留\n。","quality":0.313},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:51:55.369000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:51:56.210000+08:00","text":"沒有這樣的啦，因為都沒人簽，不要這樣啦！","quality":0.353},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:51:58.251000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:52:05.116000+08:00","text":"今天各政黨之間開誠布公，大家有共識的到最\n後也沒有人會耍賴啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:52:05.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:52:08.658000+08:00","text":"因為今天這個案子是大家所關注的，很正面的啦！","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:52:09.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T13:52:11.320000+08:00","text":"我們就擇期再協商，\n今天的協商會議到這裡，散會。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T13:52:11.820000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T13:52:12.962857+08:00","text":"散會（13時 52 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