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跟大家報告我們初期委員已達法定人數現在進行開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議的議事錄"},{"start":1658.157,"end":1682.931,"text":"立法院第十一屆第五會期交通委員會第六次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十五年四月十三日星期一上午九時至十二時十七分地點本院紅樓二零一會議室出席委員李明哲等十四人列席委員羅明采等六人列席官員行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德等主席林交集委員俊憲"},{"start":1684.568,"end":1703.887,"text":"報告事項 宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定 邀請行政院公共工程委員會報告業務概況並備質詢本日會議由公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德報告後 既由委員李昆澤等16人提出質詢均經主任委員陳金德及相關人員分別予以答覆"},{"start":1705.028,"end":1721.257,"text":"決議一報告及詢答完畢二委員徐欣盈等二人所提書面質詢均列入記錄並刊登公報三委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請行政院公共工程委員會盡速以書面答覆散會宣讀完畢好"},{"start":1727.004,"end":1754.543,"text":"好 那我們待會再處理意思如何好 那我們現在介紹在場的委員李坤哲委員那我們也介紹我們列席的交通部所有同仁我們陳世凱部長杭政事的韓振華司長我們公共運輸及監理事的胡迪奇司長"},{"start":1757.21,"end":1783.081,"text":"我們民安局的何淑萍局長鐵道局楊正軍局長公路局林蒲山局長我們航港局葉協榮局長觀光署今天是副署長黃和廷副署長好我們台鐵的鄭光源董事長"},{"start":1786.104,"end":1809.669,"text":"港務公司黃景榮總經理還有我們淘積樂總經理范孝倫我們高鐵的副總經理鍾瑞芳我們中華航空的高新黃董事長我們亞明海運的總經理李明輝"},{"start":1812.742,"end":1841.23,"text":"好 我們也介紹經濟部 我們今天列席的是能源署的代理署長吳志偉還有我們列席 還有我們國營事業管理師的副市長劉起孝我們台灣中有的方振能董事長還有我們的羅伯同副總經理好"},{"start":1843.308,"end":1872.156,"text":"另外有我們國安會的副主任委員高仙貴我們國安會的經濟發展處程美菊處長我們農業部略署黃茂誠署長我們農糧署老美菊副組長好那我們現在在我們現場剛到我們還有一位委員我們歡迎黃孟楷委員"},{"start":1874.875,"end":1903.641,"text":"好那我們現在也請教我們在場的委員對於我們上次會議的議事錄有意見嗎好如果沒有的話那我們議事錄就確定我們今天的會議來進行因應中東情勢國際油價飆升對於我國陸海空運輸的衝擊評估與因應策略專題報告那我們現在請列席的相關單位我們首先邀請交通部陳世凱部長進行報告"},{"start":1911.738,"end":1918.265,"text":"主席 各位委員 各位女士先生今天應邀之貴委員會就因應中東情勢國際油價飆升對於我國陸海空運輸之衝擊評估與因應策略進行專題報告 敬請各位委員指教"},{"start":1927.294,"end":1943.406,"text":"從今年的二月底美伊軍事衝突爆發以來中東局勢持續在升溫當中隨著赫姆茲海峽遭到封鎖國際的能源市場面臨到劇烈的波動跟變動原油的價格也大幅的上升對於高度仰賴"},{"start":1945.167,"end":1960.514,"text":"進口能源的我國而言不僅是衝擊到整體的經濟發展也對我們的陸海空運體系帶來重大的影響那陸海空的運輸體系主要的輸運都是靠能源所以我們對於能源的價格特別的敏感"},{"start":1961.074,"end":1982.671,"text":"交通運輸部門是國家運作的命脈從民生的物資的配送還有產業供應鏈的維繫到國際貿易的人員往來都高度仰賴著穩定的交通運輸油價上升會推升整體的運輸業者成本那對於運價也會衍生出一些波動"},{"start":1983.872,"end":2003.398,"text":"行政院在4月2號已經宣布大眾運輸的票價不調漲以確保穩定民生的安定本部依行政院的政策針對國內的航空部分協調中油公司先行吸收油價的漲幅本部在編列預算支應該公司吸收的油價成本"},{"start":2004.258,"end":2030.78,"text":"高鐵台鐵主要是以電力為主受到油價的影響比較小高鐵台鐵目前也沒有影響到他們的票價跟成本那公路運輸的部分終有已經配合政府穩定物價的政策吸收了部分的油價的漲幅那到目前為止運價的這個調整的門檻目前大部分都還沒有達到那國內海運則沒有調整整體的這個運價的這個規劃"},{"start":2033.254,"end":2058.619,"text":"本部將持續的觀察油價的變動並且審慎的因應而且適時的提供業者協助那以下比較細節的報告的部分我們將請本部的韓正華司長就因應中東情勢國際油價飆升對於我國陸海空運輸之衝擊評估與因應策略的辦理情形向各位委員報告 敬請各位委員指教"},{"start":2062.059,"end":2089.308,"text":"好 我們請韓市長主席 各位委員 各位女士先生今天嬰瑤智委員會進行報告進行各位委員指教衝擊評估部分近期中東戰事導致國際郵價飆高行政院宣布大眾運輸票價不調漲以穩定國內物價以下警告國內郵價飆升對我國陸海空運輸可能造成之衝擊與影響說明如下"},{"start":2091.149,"end":2109.694,"text":"公路客運部分本部於96年核定公路汽車客運路線費率臨時調整機制若柴油價格達基本運價調漲門檻公路局將依程序辦理臨時調整機制今年3月柴油加權平均價格為新台幣28.31億元尚未達公路客運運價調漲門檻票價維持不變"},{"start":2112.375,"end":2135.946,"text":"台鐵及高鐵部分台鐵及高鐵主要採電力運行油價波動影響不大現行票價維持不變海運部分國際航線三大國籍貨櫃航商由台灣至中東僅三條航線運量不高影響有限目前三大國籍航商皆已全面停收中東地區貨物目前全球貨櫃航線運價指數與戰爭前相較上漲約10%到32%"},{"start":2141.388,"end":2158.304,"text":"散裝航運部分 波羅的海乾散貨指數上漲1.1%與鴻海危機及疫情期間高點均上有一定的差距國內航線 目前高級柴油價格為新台幣30億元 每公升30億元較戰前漲幅約19%經洽詢國內客運航商短時間內暫無調整票價之規劃"},{"start":2165.911,"end":2185.876,"text":"空運部分目前國際航線航空油價已較戰前上漲122%國內航線航空油價亦上漲116%造成航空公司營運成本大幅增加令經民航局聯繫經濟部及航空燃油供應業者了解目前國內供油仍屬正常"},{"start":2186.616,"end":2202.022,"text":"少部分國家如緬甸、越南、菲律賓等國際廠開始實施公油限制違上非完全不得在該國加油因此現階段對航空公司營運而言系油價成本劇烈增加為主要影響因應策略錄音方面"},{"start":2202.742,"end":2217.478,"text":"第一個是依行政院的政策票價採動漲方式因應行政院為穩定物價宣布啟動專案平穩吸收措施由中油吸收汽柴油價格約六成漲幅本部將配合行政院政策採取動漲票價方式因應"},{"start":2218.519,"end":2241.032,"text":"二 公路客運將是油價變化 審慎因應目前柴油價格尚未達啟動門檻本部將持續關注油價變化情形 審慎因應海運方面第一 定期召開國際海運運輸平穩工作小組會議香港局已召開運輸平穩工作小組會議目前尚未有急單或缺艙缺櫃情形"},{"start":2242.082,"end":2257.549,"text":"二持續關注國內客運航線航商營運情形事實與協助目前中油已吸收部分高級柴油價格之漲幅國內客運航線航商現階段尚無調整運價規劃本部將持續關注油價波動影響情形事實給予協助"},{"start":2258.829,"end":2278.115,"text":"空運方面第一個持續召開因應會議要求航空公司研擬因應措施民航局召開相關會議要求航空公司掌握國內外供油情形及燃油價格波動狀況做好因應準備二國際航線有航空公司調整燃油附加費反映部分成本"},{"start":2279.136,"end":2287.887,"text":"國際航空公司已依規定自今年4月7日起調整國際航線客運燃油附加費短程線調整為45美元長程線調整為117美元國內航線票價以穩定為優先要務"},{"start":2293.954,"end":2322.713,"text":"今年2月至4月連續3個月的國內航空燃油價格均價已達每公升新台幣28.75元已超過27.25元的票價調整門檻本部已配合政策協調航空公司還漲為了降低業者的營運成本避免油價達票價調整門檻經行政院跨部會協調將由中油先行吸收油價漲幅油價差額將由本部編列預算給予相關補助四 督導航空公司保障消費者權益"},{"start":2323.894,"end":2350.763,"text":"民航局已要求航空公司應按照公佈班表執行如需調整航班則應主動告知旅客並應協助安排替代航班或給予免手續費的一個退改票的配套措施以維護消費者權益最後近期中東情勢升高國際油價大幅波動對我國陸海空運輸體系產生影響為現階段整體運作仍屬穩定尚未出現營運中斷或供需失衡情形"},{"start":2351.483,"end":2376.504,"text":"本部將優先維持大眾運輸運價穩定 以降低對民生及產業的衝擊本部並將持續滾動檢討各項應變措施 確保運輸服務穩定供給以上報告 敬請各位委員會議指教 謝謝好 我們謝謝韓政司的韓司長接下來我們邀請國發會的高先貴副主委進行報告"},{"start":2387.898,"end":2402.036,"text":"主席各位委員各位先進大家早安今天陳榮貴委員會邀請本會列席本會緊究行政部門相關的政策作為提出說明敬請各位委員不吝指教至"},{"start":2402.837,"end":2416.321,"text":"本年的二月美伊戰爭爆發以來行政團隊就立即啟動了專案的因應會議那左院長每週一會主持跨部會的專案會議政府院長每週三也會召開穩定物價小組的臨時會報"},{"start":2418.542,"end":2441.997,"text":"然後密切注意中東的情勢的變化你一定對策跟應變的措施來減緩國際變局對我國的衝擊那重整行政部門因應中東情勢的七大主軸包括穩定人員供應穩定民生物價穩定供應面運作等那我以下僅就交通運輸相關的措施說明如下"},{"start":2442.797,"end":2466.093,"text":"第一個呢政府會透過提前調貨亞洲調貨跟市場買貨的三個階段來積極辦理石油跟天然氣的存量的調度作業確保油氣的供應量足價穩那第二個呢就是美伊戰爭爆發以後呢國內呢就採行了亞林最低價的原則跟專案評論機制的用中油來吸收國際的漲幅所以我們"},{"start":2467.574,"end":2476.036,"text":"國際油價是在事實上到本年的4月7號有高達132.49美元所以相較前期漲幅達到84%可是經過我們的這些雙平穩的機制以後其實國內漲幅只有18%有效的降低對國內相關的"},{"start":2488.739,"end":2506.489,"text":"物價還有運費價的一些衝擊那第二個呢事實上剛才交通部也報告過了我們公共的運輸的票價是不調整的高鐵台鐵捷運公車等公共運輸票價是不會調整然後國內的航運也協調緩漲"},{"start":2507.99,"end":2532.409,"text":"那同時交通部也定期召開了國際的海運的運輸平穩的工作小組來確保航商跟進口業者他的沒有這些缺櫃的情況那最後呢我想其實目前的美伊雖然啟動了雙邊的談判那中東的情勢仍然詭譎多變所以行政團隊將持續密切的注意國際人員價格的走勢跟變化"},{"start":2536.171,"end":2554.418,"text":"適時採取相關的措施來因應然後減緩中東衝擊對台灣經濟的像衝擊那以上報告敬請指教我們感謝國發會高縣貴婦主委接下來我們邀請經濟部請能源署吳志偉代署長"},{"start":2565.449,"end":2580.537,"text":"主席 各位委員先進 各位先生女士大家早陳鵬貴委員會邀請就因應中東情勢 國際油價飆升對於我國陸海空機運輸之衝擊評估與因應策略進行報告 敬請各位委員先進不吝指正"},{"start":2581.977,"end":2603.666,"text":"我們台灣的自然資源貶富不足所以進口能源依存度大概佔了95%那政府高度的重視能源安全在政策上面已經採取了就是進口來源多元化跟建立安全存量的機制等策略來確保能源的穩定供應強化供給的韌性在這次中東衝突的這個"},{"start":2605.406,"end":2621.878,"text":"影響評估跟因應策略上面在2月28號這個中東地緣政治衝突急速升溫以來刺激了這個國際油價震盪走高那4月7號布蘭特原油曾經高到每桶達到132.5美元左右"},{"start":2622.839,"end":2649.536,"text":"相較於這個戰前2月27號每桶只有72塊左右大概上漲了84%那展望因為這個中東局勢的關係整體國際遊視的不確定性相當的高那為了因應這個中東情勢經濟部在第一時間就啟動了相關的這個能源應變小組那每天都會召開會議以下就我們這個穩定國內陸海空運輸用油的供應機制來向委員會說明"},{"start":2650.757,"end":2669.296,"text":"第一個我們會密切注意國內這個能源的存量那目前國內能源的存量天數都高於我們安全存量的法規那經濟部也確實掌握這個石油供銷機型短期受影響的船隻也找到了替代來源那我們也責成中央公司運營相關的替代調度方案"},{"start":2670.037,"end":2691.687,"text":"那在穩定價格 汽柴油價格的部分經濟部已經責成中國公司續行雅齡最低價的原則並視國際油價的變動的情況由專案平穩機制至少吸收60%的售價漲幅那同時政府也宣布有關汽柴油貨物稅減增的幅度也擴大至每公升3塊5及2塊2元左右"},{"start":2695.109,"end":2713.234,"text":"那同時配合交通部穩定航空燃油的部分那院已經請交通部依現行規定啟動國內航空燃油的補助那經濟部也責成中油公司增加航空燃油的採購的規劃確保穩定供應我國各機場的航空燃油"},{"start":2713.914,"end":2730.87,"text":"那最後由於目前我們的國內的能源安全存量居高於法規那經濟部也會持續掌握國內存量跟後續這個船隻抵港的情形來確保充分供應入海空運輸的用油後續也將滾動檢討相關的一些應變機制努力減緩國際容價漲幅"},{"start":2735.774,"end":2757.331,"text":"大幅上漲衝擊然後配合這個穩定物價的政策來照顧民生以上報告進行各位委員並指教 謝謝好 我們感謝經濟部農業署的吳志偉代理署長接下來我們邀請農業部的漁業署黃茂成署長進行報告"},{"start":2767.718,"end":2785.831,"text":"主席 各位委員 各位先進農業部應邀交通委員會列席來報告因應中東情勢 國際業務價飆漲對我國漁業的一些衝擊評估跟因應策略 敬請委員指教我們政府為了發展海洋漁業"},{"start":2787.672,"end":2806.947,"text":"我們在民國47年開始就針對漁業用油有實施優惠的一個補貼那相關政策一直有一些的調整跟變動那最終是在民國80年那由總統公布修正漁業法在我們漁業法裡面明定漁業動力用油免徵貨物稅"},{"start":2808.368,"end":2832.191,"text":"那優惠的油價標準是由行政院來定資那這一次因為我們海洋捕撈漁業的這一個部分油價佔我們的成本大概平均大概30到40%那對於中東情勢造成能源價格的一個提高對我們的漁業影響也非常大所以農業部也研擬相關的一個措施來協助我們產業"},{"start":2833.252,"end":2849.566,"text":"那目前我們海洋捕撈漁業裡面大概分成兩大類一部分是我們沿近海作業的漁船大概有兩萬艘那這些漁船作業漁區都在我國專屬經濟海域內那他們都會以台灣的基地港做母港"},{"start":2850.026,"end":2867.475,"text":"所以他可以在國內加油享有這些用油的一些的補貼那另外我們大概有900多艘的遠洋漁船那長期在公海作業那這一類的漁船的作業用油的一個成本大概佔整個經營成本大概28.5%這一類的漁船他就沒辦法享受國內的這個用油的一個補貼"},{"start":2872.657,"end":2891.284,"text":"那目前我們在國內的一個補貼措施裡面除了免徵營業稅還有定額補貼這一個貨物稅以外我們是依據中油公告的牌價在給予14%的一個補貼那目前我們的補貼情形一年大概"},{"start":2892.044,"end":2910.36,"text":"由我們漁業署編列大概15億元的經費來預註直接預註給中油公司那這一次中東情勢我們採取的措施針對我們沿近海的一個部分我們過去在102年有發生金融危機當時這一個油價來到我們在補貼後的歷史高點是一公餅2156"},{"start":2918.787,"end":2946.205,"text":"565元那我們就以這一個基準價如果我們這個油價推升到這一個基準的時候我們農業部會給予一公餅1000元的一個補貼由農業部直接歸電給中油那在公海作業這些遠洋漁船的部分我們也參考中油的海運燃油的一個排價如果在達到我們戰爭開始前也就是今年的2月26的兩"},{"start":2948.006,"end":2971.042,"text":"那2月26這一個中油公告牌價是每公噸793元只要達到這目前的這一個公告牌價已經達到兩倍所以我們已經啟動相關的補貼這一個產業支持措施包括這個海上的作業的一個獎勵靠港整補跟金融支持那分別定有相關的一些的申請條件跟獎勵金額"},{"start":2973.137,"end":2999.615,"text":"那另外這兩項措施是由我們漁業經營者折一來申請那如果有金融支持的部分我們也會提供一年期的貸款然後利息1%的一個補貼最高貸款金額是新台幣3000萬元那考量漁業是我們民生基礎產業也肩負了國家糧食安全的一個重任所以整個油價上漲會導致整個作業成本的一個增加"},{"start":3000.375,"end":3009.28,"text":"對於餘產品的供應跟糧食安全會產生影響所以為了達到穩定供應餘產的這樣的一個目標我們會持續關注國際油價的一個漲鐵情形來給產業給予協助謝謝以上報告請委員指導謝謝好"},{"start":3021.38,"end":3049.822,"text":"那我們現在就開始進行詢答也做以下的宣告我們詢答時間出席委員6加2分鐘列席委員4加1分鐘委員發言登記請於10點30分截止各位委員如果有臨時提案請於10點前提出以便醫事人員會診我們也暫定10點30分休息10分鐘現在我們邀請登記第一位的委員李坤哲發言"},{"start":3057.182,"end":3070.728,"text":"謝謝主席 請一下中油公司董事長 方董事長 能源署有代理署長交通部陳士凱部長 以及林福山林局長請林局長我們請代理署長"},{"start":3074.872,"end":3093.044,"text":"我先請教一下中油公司方董事長針對我們燃料供應的穩定以及價格的問題當然是國人目前很關注的一個議題確保供應方面當然國際的處理的慣例大概就是尋找替代的路線"},{"start":3094.085,"end":3109.731,"text":"或是其他的國家的供應的來源那我記得方董事長在4月8號也說過中油也在處理相關的替代的路線在協調之中以及其他的供應來源那目前的進度狀況是如何來請說明一下"},{"start":3111.315,"end":3137.125,"text":"我也好說明一下替代的來源從非洲這邊以及在地中海區域或者是在澳洲都是我們尋找的一個替代的來源那這部分也有一些成就包含了就是從亞塞拜蘭包含了從阿曼這邊或者是澳洲這邊當然美國是我們原油進口的一個主要的來源"},{"start":3138.277,"end":3156.169,"text":"那麼替代的路線的部分因為我們從沙布丁阿拉伯買了原油還佔了蠻多的比例但是他原油沒辦法出來所以沙布丁阿拉伯他就拉一條管線他有管線是到鴻海這邊可以輸出的"},{"start":3157.17,"end":3172.859,"text":"那這邊我們也跟他陸續在接洽看我們的原油輪能不能從紅海這邊裝運以後呢從曼德海峽這邊出來好 也要請方董事長確保這些相關來源的穩定以及替代路線的一個協調的狀況必須要來穩定相關的這些狀況"},{"start":3177.282,"end":3196.723,"text":"那我請教一下能源署有待的署長我們相關的油價平穩機制以及天然氣的這種平穩機制目前的運作狀況以及具體的措施來說明一下跟委員報告一下這個中油公司它一直以來都是用我們所謂的亞林最低的價格"},{"start":3197.324,"end":3217.424,"text":"好那這一次因為中東事件發生以後也經過院理協調我們還另外發展出一個叫專案平穩的機制那專案平穩機制的部分中油供至少吸收60%以上那所以在這次以最近這幾次以來應該這幾週基本上都沒有做過相關的油價的調整那以上報告"},{"start":3217.884,"end":3232.391,"text":"好 這個要確保油價以及天然氣的來源的確定跟價格的一個穩定這個這個能源署責任是非常重大的好 我們會繼續持續的滾動講好 兩位先請回座休息我請教一下陳世凱部長"},{"start":3234.885,"end":3255.696,"text":"當然受到戰爭的影響 國際油價上漲有一定的趨勢雖然目前我們極力的穩定相關的價格以及確保來源的一個穩定但是戰爭的狀況在目前這種國際局勢多變的狀況之下仍然是呈現一個不穩定的狀況"},{"start":3257.762,"end":3281.702,"text":"目前中油跟能源署也進行相關的平穩機制來維持民生的油價我們在客運的部分 陸運的部分 包含公路客運以及計程車公路客運是大眾運輸 計程車是準大眾運輸工具尤其是計程車 大概全國有9萬多台"},{"start":3284.304,"end":3300.776,"text":"使用燃油的大概八萬九千多台我們看到相關的在過去我們相關的這些補貼的政策近年來總共啟動了三次包含2008年2014年跟2016年都有啟動相關的這些補貼的這樣的一個做法"},{"start":3307,"end":3319.954,"text":"那其實在四年前的俄烏戰爭也有啟動相關的討論那當時最後是公路客運我記得是公路客運有補貼計程車這個方面因為還沒有到達一定的這樣的一個衝擊的狀態所以就沒有補貼那"},{"start":3324.571,"end":3352.154,"text":"公路客運的部分我記得我們考慮油價的這種上漲當然他有一個調整的機制就是準基本票價來做一個補貼就是要跟工會以及相關的這些部門大家討論之後來進行對票價的一個補貼來請林武山局長說明一下我們這次有做這樣的一個規劃"},{"start":3357.257,"end":3374.194,"text":"確實公路客運的部分 沉入剛剛委員所提的一個部分那因應油價的部分 公路客運本身的費率裡面有內建這個因應油價臨時費率調漲機制就是CRF那這個CRF的部分是按照月平均的才有價格來做一個處理"},{"start":3374.915,"end":3401.707,"text":"那目前大概就是說以3月1號到3月底這個平均才有價格大概是28.3那但是目前這個CRF調整的這個門檻大概是29.6那相信大概這個如果以4月份的這個平均價格的話大概在5月就會碰到那這個部分的話我相信公會大概會啟動這個CRF這樣子的一個這一個機制那未來他們送進來的時候那我們會跟這個公"},{"start":3404.188,"end":3429.639,"text":"公會來做一個討論會依照程序來做處理他有一個匯率的調整機制當然啦是由政府來補貼相關的票價的這些落差那相關的我們預計啊如果說這半年公路客運相關的除了時程之外除了機制之外相關的經費來源啊你們有沒有做過評估大概需要多少錢"},{"start":3431.341,"end":3456.58,"text":"這個部分大概有試算過如果說以5月到今年12月按照這樣子這個因為我跟各位報告一下如果啟動的話大概就是超過29.6就要啟動但是下一次再啟動的話就要那個油價就要平均達到39點多那所以如果按照這個5月份這樣子來啟動到這個12月的話大概今年所需要的經費大概是1.21億"},{"start":3458.681,"end":3483.515,"text":"大概一億左右啦那現在我們討論到計程車計程車有八萬九千多輛都是燃油的這些汽車那他們也非常的辛苦他也是准大眾運輸工具那我們在過去都是採取油價責讓就是發行油卡讓他們直接來進行抵扣那相關的這一次的機制有沒有納入計程車"},{"start":3484.716,"end":3489.148,"text":"那相關的預算大概要多少 你有沒有先進行評估"},{"start":3490.799,"end":3514.625,"text":"像委員報告這個部分其實都在公共運輸的同一包包含說這個公路客運包含計程車的部分我們是整體都在做討論那公路的部分剛剛局長已經有回答過大概1.211一直到年底那計程車的部分我們如果以過去的這個補貼的方式1公升5塊錢的這個補貼的方式來試算的話大概一個月我們大概評估補貼400公升的這個油價"},{"start":3516.605,"end":3529.248,"text":"也就是一位計程車司機一個月差不多是兩千塊左右以過去我說的是過去啦如果是以那個機制來回推的話現在如果要來推行的話一個月大概是1.9億左右的這個預算必須要來質疑"},{"start":3530.219,"end":3548.014,"text":"那整體來說在今年如果從五月開始大概就需要大概十億以上的相關的預算大概就是接近這個數字所以我們現在整體都在估算因為包含這個公路客運包含計程車包含其他的公共運輸體系在內我們整體都在做檢討"},{"start":3549.975,"end":3578.477,"text":"另外部長我要提醒你我們是用海空運輸當然常常需要到他國來進行油料的一個補充那在油料價格跟供應穩定方面它其實更容易受到波動的一個影響導致運輸成本的增加那相關的運輸成本也會連帶的影響到進口的原料的原物料的這些價格所以在民生油料的補貼之外"},{"start":3579.258,"end":3596.071,"text":"我們也要針對海空運輸的成本要進行觀測來研究是否相關的成本補助我們有沒有可以協助的一個空間而且還要確保這些國際原物料運輸的品質跟它的一個價格的穩定"},{"start":3596.792,"end":3622.818,"text":"那這個部分部長簡單說明一下我們有沒有做這樣的一個先期的規劃不管是空運或者是海運的部分我們都密切在關注整體油價對於運價的這個影響那委員剛剛所關心的例如說進口的這個原物料成本會不會因此而增加目前看起來進口的這個原物料的這個運費它提漲的這個幅度相當的低不高反而是出口的成長的比較高那空運的部分目前聽起來"},{"start":3624.198,"end":3652.736,"text":"不管是進口或出口啦空運的部分當然進口跟出口的量也不多但其實目前的這個調漲的幅度都是業者可以接受的範圍之內所以目前對於物價的影響應該不大部長我要提醒你要跟公共工程委員會密切的聯繫就是說讓物價的平穩機制能夠確實的落行之外要確保短期之內我們這些價格波動不要影響到公共工程的品質跟它相關的一個期程是"},{"start":3653.416,"end":3669.605,"text":"那最後我覺得我們要建立多元能源的一個供應的方式各交通領域直接受影響的程度當然不一直接影響的當然有私人運具或者是客戶運的部分"},{"start":3670.345,"end":3694.111,"text":"那間接影響當然是像電力台鐵高鐵等等的這些軌道設施但是國際燃料供應跟價格波動他當然會影響到電力的供需以及相關的價格那交通部其實應該是要減少燃料的供應依賴啦要減少依賴建立多元能源的一個供應的管道提高這種"},{"start":3695.427,"end":3720.722,"text":"承擔能源風險的一個能力那台電報告在這種場站要建立再生能源發電的系統跟搭配微電網可以在電力中斷的時候提供必要的這種電力的供應那目前交通部各場站的這種多元能源的這種供應進度交通部有沒有進行相關的規劃來說明一下"},{"start":3721.883,"end":3742.614,"text":"像委員報告這個部分其實我們都有做相關的討論跟規劃那目前委員在提的這個微電網的部分在能源有需求或中斷的時候可以再做電力供應像我們的電動巴士的這個場站他們大概有一些場站有做這樣子的設置有做這樣的設計那其他的部分我們還陸續在推廣當中"},{"start":3743.795,"end":3763.024,"text":"最後我有幾個建議就是說我們各交通系統的廠站在設計階段要納入節能的設計改建階段將建物的節能也要納入考量那現有的廠站我們要如何增進這種能源自主例如很多廠站可以設置這種屋頂的"},{"start":3764.204,"end":3792.693,"text":"太陽能板以及都市熱能的回收等等那我們各運輸系統也要必須妥善的利用相關的廠站的空間這都是我們交通部跟各部門必須要全力的一個推動的一個政策方向最後讓部長再簡單說明一下是 報告委員尤其您所提到的這個太陽能板的部分其實我們都陸續在推動包括您看得到的我們交通體系的廠站幾乎能夠裝的盡量都裝那還有就是我們"},{"start":3794.173,"end":3821.35,"text":"高速公路的服務區服務區現在也開始大量在裝置這個太陽能板我們也要盡量朝向能源自主的部分這個我們正在努力向委員報告要確保相關的對於公共運輸的這種穩定都是交通部重要的責任好 謝謝委員好 我們謝謝李君哲委員部長請先回座好那接下來我們邀請洪孟楷委員發言"},{"start":3833.426,"end":3860.679,"text":"主席謝謝 麻煩請交通部陳部長請陳部長好 部長好今天我們討論到是中東情勢國際油價飆升對於航空業者的這個衝擊那當然首當其衝就是說運輸這個衝擊絕對不要影響到民生但另外一方面因為整體你們報告不管是海陸空等相關的運輸現在"},{"start":3862.04,"end":3875.396,"text":"都面臨到一個問題就是都是政府不管是補貼或是中油來吸收那每個禮拜一這一個我也在財政委員會有問過但是沒有辦法得到答案就是說那我們如果說假設中東戰事持續延燒"},{"start":3876.741,"end":3890.608,"text":"沒有人說的準它什麼時候結束那我們能夠補貼或是說我們的臨界點到底在哪裡有沒有一個預期的心理不要讓社會大眾造成恐慌我們也不希望讓社會大眾突然間措手無措"},{"start":3892.649,"end":3920.284,"text":"守株無錯來請部長說明一下向委員報告目前我們就是依照行政院的要求跟指示我們對於整體的國內的公共運輸的票價我們會做不調整的這個作為可以到什麼時候不調整到什麼時候向委員報告我們目前所規劃出來的除了到年底是一個版本之外另外針對明年的一整年就是116年的部分我們有提出我們的預算的需求如果要做兩年比如說到116年底"},{"start":3920.644,"end":3944.068,"text":"的整體的這個補貼的措施的話要讓國內的公共運輸平穩的話其實我們有提出一個預算上面的需求那就看到時候行政院對於預算的安排怎麼去安排好所以我們先講因為現在四月嘛到今年年底不管油價怎麼樣飆升不管中東站是怎麼樣的演變我們都不會調漲我們的陸海公運輸的票價目前我們國內的公共運輸我們的政策上是不調漲的"},{"start":3945.208,"end":3973.573,"text":"確定因為部長其實國際原油的價格現在你的報告裡面以及我們這各部會報告裡面都來到一桶132美金而這一次的中東戰士更創下了144美金也就是有國際原油價格交易以來歷史新高另外一方面現在看到的這個燃油的一個價格航空燃油價格他是翻倍成長翻倍"},{"start":3975.134,"end":4003.773,"text":"所以說本席才會問的是說那到目前為止我們的因應規劃即便中東戰事持續的這個延燒我們都有信心能夠在今年年底以前國內的運輸不管是高鐵台鐵以及公路客運都不調漲像委員報告行政院的政策是這個方向沒有錯所以交通部會照這個方向來執行這個問題好那我們就是要看你那另外我們也要說那這樣子如果預估要多少成本"},{"start":4005.074,"end":4022.887,"text":"我們過去這一年過去這一個多月的時間已經花出了多少我們的預算我們到明年底如果估算到明年底的預算是差不多85億我先問的是這一個月這一個月就是2月28號到現在我們相關的補貼或是相關的吸收"},{"start":4023.974,"end":4051.112,"text":"目前我們有實際落實到補貼需要補貼的部分只有空運的部分空運的油價的部分因為我們請中油公司協助我們從44塊的油價調降到28塊所以目前都還是中油公司吸收大部分所以說中油公司才會想是說他過去這一個月已經破百億的一個成本吸收那未來我們交通部這邊會有跟中油公司還是全部都讓中油公司這邊來接收"},{"start":4052.313,"end":4067.629,"text":"在航空燃油的部分我們目前是拜託中油公司先幫我們調降那個價格但實際上我們到最後會編列預算來還給這個中油公司也就是說由交通部這邊來做補貼因為即便是國內線的航空燃油到目前為止也都是歷史新高"},{"start":4069.171,"end":4082.887,"text":"過去我看了中油的這個數據裡面國內線的航空的燃油到44塊以往沒有超過40塊的所以現在是歷史新高嘛所以未來交通部也會編列預算再給中油公司這個沒有問題 這個我們會做"},{"start":4084.389,"end":4104.328,"text":"那另外我們看到是韓國政府有祭出節能政策也就是說要現行公共機關的車輛並且頒布12項的節能行動之意那卓榮泰院長之前被問到的時候也有講是說政府應該帶頭開源節流就是要對外的車輛出入都要儘量精簡"},{"start":4105.109,"end":4125.61,"text":"我想請教那身為我們中央主管機關交通部我們對於公務部門體系說出入車輛盡量精簡我們具體措施跟要求跟辦法是什麼像委員報告目前沒有定定這樣子的辦法但大家都有這樣的默契但是卓榮和院長就講是說要盡量精簡但是沒有任何的措施辦法"},{"start":4126.243,"end":4135.39,"text":"我們目前有盡量在精簡好來那我請教一下今天那麼多的部會但是大部分都是交通部的同仁嘛剛剛有沒有貢城來的首長"},{"start":4137.423,"end":4162.322,"text":"首長有沒有共成來部長有沒有邀請來一個司長跟你一起坐車司長他們都是共成來的現在都有要求要共成因為我出發的地點跟他們不一樣所以沒有辦法共成不是從交通部過來我剛剛不是從交通部過來所以本席要講的就是說現在就是卓榮泰院長講了一個說你要盡量精簡但實際上沒有相關的辦法跟作為"},{"start":4163.083,"end":4181.169,"text":"那你身為中央主管機構我們看到韓國確實因為中東油價不是我們能夠控制但我們要的是說要大家可以盡量訂出辦法那我們已經看到韓國了他講是說頒布12項的節能行動指引縮短淋浴時間白天充電供部門車輛上路分流管制"},{"start":4181.929,"end":4210.41,"text":"那我想請教交通部是不是應該也要對於這種全民運動的部分帶頭做起以身作則是不是要訂立相關的政策研擬如果說中東再次持續延燒的話我們要怎麼做如果委員您所說的是交通部必須要自己先做的話這個部分我們正在執行當中那有沒有辦法由我們這邊來制定一個辦法要求整個政府機關或者是民眾大家來配合這個我也覺得委員的建議蠻好所以我們來研議這個方面看怎麼樣去"},{"start":4211.09,"end":4227.889,"text":"呼籲大家盡量節能這是左榮泰院長所講他要公務車輛盡量精簡但是不要只有口號沒有具體的作為過去到現在都一直強調的是我們要務實不是務虛不是說只是喊口號所以說這一點是本席要提出來"},{"start":4228.57,"end":4251.683,"text":"那你如果說要研議相關辦法給行政院來做參考甚至說廣泛的話什麼時候可以研議出來給我們一個月的時間我們來跟行政院這邊一個月好本期看您一個月的時間最後部長還是強調這個所謂的中國大陸對台的十個政策本期剛剛有看到您有在外面受訪有講到說橄欖枝有可能會變成棒子"},{"start":4252.682,"end":4278.741,"text":"所以你現在認為說這個中國大陸對台的十個政策他算是 現階段算橄欖枝還是算棒子是橄欖枝是棒子其實我看不太出來因為對於我們來說你不認為他是橄欖枝這樣說好了台灣目前到中國大陸要去做自由行的我們完全沒有限制我們的國民任何人要去都可以是嗎 不管怎麼樣今天是中國大陸這邊提出來那本席沒有要"},{"start":4279.341,"end":4296.094,"text":"我現在在強調的是說我是想確認交通部的態度因為我們看到很多的觀光旅遊住宿飯店餐飲運輸業者也都很期待兩岸有春龍花開的時候當然你一定會講的是說我們有多元市場我們有開放觀光但是很現實的層面"},{"start":4297.816,"end":4315.479,"text":"過去我們觀光客能破千萬是有三四百萬名的入客那我現在想要請教的就是說有業者也認為是說近年我方各種推脫閃躲技術刁難簡而言之啊雙方是沒有互信想談也沒有辦法起頭這是業者"},{"start":4316.687,"end":4344.77,"text":"媒體報導直接就報導觀光旅遊飯店業者的這個說法那我只是想請教現在對方丟了一個球第一我們官方的態度認為這是感染之嗎我們我剛剛回到我剛剛所說的話題對於自由行台灣是沒有任何限制那我們目前看到中國開放了上海跟福建可以來台灣自由行那如果這叫善意的話那請問一下上海跟福建以外的他的限制算惡意嗎"},{"start":4346.261,"end":4358.312,"text":"會不會是另外一種而已假設上海跟福建佔他們總體國民的十分之一那他目前還佔 禁了 禁止了十分之九那到底是誰比較有善意我看應該是我們比較有善意吧"},{"start":4359.664,"end":4376.593,"text":"對 部長你完全搞錯這個問題的重點我現在只想問的是說你認不認為說他現在的做法是感染之如果是的話可以進一步談我現在想要確認這是官方的立場跟態度就是說如果說因為這樣子的一個動作兩邊可以有譬如說丟球接球"},{"start":4377.854,"end":4385.701,"text":"對於觀光旅遊飯店住宿業者他們也有所期待但如果說今天官方的態度就是我們不願意接求或是我們認為說這不是橄欖枝的話那當然我們也可以直接讓我們的業者知道是說我們不認為嘛所以現在重點在於是說你覺得是不是橄欖枝要不要後續有溝通的程序啟動"},{"start":4398.911,"end":4427.167,"text":"因為過去他們時常把橄欖枝當棍子在用所以我現在無法判斷但您說的啟動其實我們早就啟動我講過好多次我們回到小兩會的談判現在資深的旅遊業者就講說小兩會是談團體的旅客但是大陸是開放自由行的旅客為什麼要透過小兩會是要談什麼根本就是開放就可以做到的事所以附路的進團力的理由根本就是什麼理由都有委員"},{"start":4427.907,"end":4453.328,"text":"這個就是媒體報導如果說你認為媒體報導是錯誤的請你更正但我們現在看到的地方就是說對於七成或說第一線的旅遊人士來講他們當然希望在我們捍衛中華民國主權立場的情況下能夠更開大門走大路過去2008年到2016年嘛政府時代可以做的事情為什麼民進黨政府沒有辦法做那還有就是我們為什麼沒有辦法"},{"start":4455.109,"end":4483.629,"text":"能夠有更春暖花開的時候所以這一點還是官方的立場跟態度現在是讓我們覺得模糊不清讓業者知道說有沒有機會有春暖花開的時候好 不要口惠食不至啦我真的只能講是說不要口惠食不至就如同剛剛講的不管是公務車的這個精簡政策到目前為止沒有落實任何辦法那現在不要口惠而食不至我"},{"start":4484.249,"end":4505.176,"text":"今天代表是希望我們所有飯店旅遊住宿觀光餐飲業者真的能夠有開大門走大路的時候這是國內所有旅遊業者的期待 謝謝謝謝 感謝洪孟楷委員接下來我們邀請萬美玲委員發言"},{"start":4514.622,"end":4516.664,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們有請陳部長好 請陳部長委員好"},{"start":4529.943,"end":4557.312,"text":"好 部長早這個空運的部分在國內航線我們現在是由中油先吸收油價的漲幅沒有錯嗎國內航線的部分是好 那國際的航線您好像有說到說會請航空公司盡力的來按照公佈的這個班表來執行如果要調整航班那有一些相關的配套措施提醒等等通通要出來對不對好 那帶我們來看國際航班的部分現在雖然已經調整了燃油附加費的這個部分"},{"start":4559.053,"end":4572.58,"text":"但是民航局的數據看到一個數字各航空公司在4月份現在每一週大概就取消了平均7.3班的班機那到了5月份更是取消的班機增加到了每週52.6班"},{"start":4574.841,"end":4588.152,"text":"那看到這個數字發現取消航班的狀況其實是越來越嚴重那我想請教部長我們國際航班的部分現在我們還有哪一些措施可以來因應不可能讓他們因為現在油價漲然後我們就一直減少這個班機嘛有沒有什麼因應的措施"},{"start":4592.395,"end":4620.548,"text":"燃油附加費當然是對於他們油價的一個補貼但是航空公司還是吸收了蠻大一個比例的燃油的漲價的成本目前為止是這個樣子所以有些航班他們希望能夠整併或者是精簡掉一些航班到目前為止我們掌握的數據昨天晚上有算出來整個夏季班表我們影響的是0.3%的航班目前看起來還不多但委員剛剛在提醒的是說擔心五月之後或者是六月之後影響會更大"},{"start":4621.268,"end":4640.088,"text":"其實你用這個0.3來講但我們要實際去看我們從4月到5月這個航班取消這個比例其實是增加非常的快的不是你口中看到0.3你就覺得很放心了而且你要看再過兩個多月我們的所謂的這個國外旅遊市場都忘記就要來了就暑假的時候"},{"start":4640.649,"end":4666.023,"text":"不管是在教育界老師放暑假孩子們放暑假的時間都會要出國去的如果班機再這樣一直減班的話我覺得對於國人出國旅行的衝擊是非常大的我記得就是在前幾年疫情的時候我們也有給航空業者一些相關營運紓困的方案包括有提出緩收場站使用費或者是噪音補償金 土地使用費等等"},{"start":4666.803,"end":4688.404,"text":"那現在如果按照現在來看來我想中東戰事誰也說不準會繼續多久那如果說我們這個油價還是拼命往上漲然後呢我也不知道中油的吸收能夠到什麼時候你準備了多少成本那航空業者像你所說的不管他自己的成本考量油價的考量那去把它整併以後影響了這個航班我們是不是有其他的配套的措施在這個國際航班上面"},{"start":4689.304,"end":4713.625,"text":"向委員報告這是一個國際上面各國都遇到的同樣的問題我知道但是你有沒有什麼應對的方式目前我們看得到的就是說目前他們整併掉的航班都是定位率比較相對低的那也就是說影響的民眾其實實際上沒有這麼多他們把定位率不好的航班把它拿掉那其他的會盡量來維持那我們會盡量鼓勵那部長是不是可以就是說"},{"start":4714.105,"end":4732.646,"text":"在這裡啊做一個保證說我們即將來臨的這個國外旅遊的旺季就七月八月齁這段時間我們的班次不會班級不會再減少因為現在已經診病了嘛五月都已經要減少每週五十幾班了這個可以保證嗎要不然現在其實很多的家長啊孩子啊大家在準備暑假的出遊其實都心裡就是很擔憂啦"},{"start":4733.527,"end":4760.201,"text":"是 向委員報告 這個部分其實交通部沒有這個力量去要求各國的航空公司不要去減班這當然不是要求 而是要跟航空業者多溝通看他們有什麼樣的困難嘛這個我們都會掌握啦就是說困難上面我們如果可以協助的部分台灣的交通部跟民航局一定會做更好的協助我想 我給你一個比較具體的建議啦因為就差兩個多月的時間而已了那我想航空業者其實就是用油大戶嘛"},{"start":4760.981,"end":4781.753,"text":"那面對中東戰事現在的狀況那我們沒有一個政府沒有一個政策可以補貼他他自己自救的想法就是覺得說第一個我趕快診病第二個呢那我就是縮減這個班級那我覺得是不是部裡面找一個時間跟航空業者坐下來聊一聊然後看看如果什麼樣的狀況的時候我們可以可以什麼樣的幫忙我覺得這個會可不可以盡速一個禮拜之內去跟他們做一個溝通"},{"start":4782.833,"end":4796.444,"text":"像委員報告之前其實民航局一直都有跟他們開過會所以才會有燃油附加費的增加我們會盡量協助他那委員再交代說希望再更密集來跟他們開會這個我們會做不要影響這個暑假暑期的出遊接下來呢這個本席要跟你討論的我想前不久你也才剛剛聽到本席在提出來嘛總諮詢的時候其實我就有提到桃園的鐵路地下化當時呢我跟卓院長在講這個事的時候您也在場"},{"start":4808.593,"end":4816.696,"text":"那大家都說會回來討論不曉得那天本席談完之後到現在你們有討論過了嗎我們的這個變更計畫追加了769億我有跟院長報告整體的狀況那他對於整體的經費當然他會覺得蠻大的"},{"start":4824.799,"end":4851.841,"text":"那這個部分我們還在討論就是說工程會那邊在討論說我們工程上面的經費看要怎麼樣去做更合時的一個作為那目前我們正在討論當中我們也希望他趕快進行怎麼會這個時候才來說要做更合時的一個作為或者是說再去看這個經費這個769億不是昨天核定這是8個月前經過很審慎的評估以後提出769億那大家各部會都同意了都蓋章了才到行政院去我們持續都在溝通"},{"start":4852.421,"end":4879.205,"text":"現在卡在行政院這個八個月的時間了我想部長你非常清楚知道我記得在昨天前天我們看到這個工程會的主委他提到一件事他說中東戰爭導致原油進口量減少間接影響柏油產量那麼進額就會導致濾清減少然後就會缺料接著就會漲價一樣的意思我們這個769億的變更預算其實就是以前因為工程延宕產生出來的費用那你看看"},{"start":4880.405,"end":4903.497,"text":"769億是8個月前提出來的你跟我現在嚴當有9個月10個月你覺得到時候如果萬物在起漲的時候769億還夠嗎那如果要不夠是不是要辦你第三次變更計畫那這個是不是還是一樣全民買單部長你有思考過這個部分嗎有都有思考過所以呢結論是什麼我們盡量努力希望進度可以再加快一點我們盡量再溝通那現在溝通的困難點是什麼呢"},{"start":4904.957,"end":4928.994,"text":"溝通的困難就是我剛剛有報告過就是經費其實還真的是蠻龐大所以要做更詳細的說明經費龐大不是這個時候拿出來講769億那個時候是大家已經都經過很多時候去討論去商榷就是769億而且你要說他的經費龐大不好意思那天在總諮詢我本席也跟你講過我們樹林萬大縣我們高雄捷運全部都合併下去啦那怎麼就我桃園提出來的經費叫龐大呢那難道這個"},{"start":4931.155,"end":4935.237,"text":"這個萬大縣跟這個高雄捷運小港零元縣這個經費都不龐大嗎對不對這也都是500多億啊也都700多億800多億啊怎麼他們就不龐大我們的769億就龐大呢可以給我一個說法嗎向委員報告您所提出來這個數據第一個萬大縣它增加220幾億那高雄的是增加303億也是500多億嘛對不對"},{"start":4956.108,"end":4983.406,"text":"個別啦 個別沒有那麼多那我們桃園這個增加的部分就700多億確實是比較龐大一點但是委員在急我也蠻急我們也希望說趕快能做溝通所以我們會盡量盡力來這個案子我覺得你說金額龐大這件事情本身是無法接受為什麼如果你覺得金額龐大意思是說其實沒有需要這麼多就可以做嗎不是嘛 對不對它是有急迫的需要當這個建設是有急迫需要的時候它沒有所謂龐不龐大的問題"},{"start":4985.207,"end":5000.978,"text":"當時大家都合訂一關一關蓋章送到行政院去的這代表大家都同意這個是需要的那結果你現在回頭說金額有一點龐大那你當時就不要合訂769億啊向委員報告我們會盡量來溝通交通部溝通目前可能溝通還不足但是我們盡量來溝通"},{"start":5003.737,"end":5025.655,"text":"真的不能這樣啦部長真的桃園啊這個鐵路地下化這麼多年了曾經有人說如果高價的話現在都通車了但是我們也尊重鄭文燦這個當市長當時的做的改變的決定全市也都配合像桃園市政府也都很配合但是工程延宕再講一次是延宕在中央啊不是延宕在地方嘛目前我們的工程上面沒有受到影響"},{"start":5026.275,"end":5048.842,"text":"目前還沒有受到影響怎麼會沒有受到影響你的這個金額沒有核定下來你今天我們桃園火車站動工了然後我們的國際站已經發包了但是我們的這個內地站我們的桃園醫院站就是沒有辦法發包啊所以而且呢這個不要去卡你卡這個八個月後面如果再多一個月兩個月就不是769億的事情了這個不會卡那到時候怎麼辦對不對我會盡量來溝通"},{"start":5050.362,"end":5057.15,"text":"所以部長不要盡量啦 盡全力好不好盡全力好不好 我相信你的能力就盡全力啦好不好好 謝謝委員好 非常感謝萬美玲委員那接下來我們邀請陳樹越委員發言"},{"start":5077.527,"end":5080.39,"text":"謝謝主席 請主席邀請陳部長請陳部長委員好部長早安那今天交通委員會是針對這個因應中東情勢那國際油價飆升對我國陸海空運輸之衝擊評估及"},{"start":5098.24,"end":5117.32,"text":"因應策略然後邀請江部做這個專題報告那本席想先請教就是部長就是我們知道這個荷姆斯海峽是波斯灣通往外海的一個唯一水道那中東盛產石油所以運油的這些貨輪都是幾乎要經過這個荷姆斯海峽所以現在因為戰爭那這個重要的"},{"start":5121.764,"end":5142.029,"text":"能源運輸的這個管道被封鎖了所以也造成了這個國際的一個能源供應的一個危機那我們當然台灣也沒有辦法就是避免所以目前因應這樣子的一個能源危機我們就是交通部對於會受到影響的陸海空那個交通的部分我們"},{"start":5146.011,"end":5156.697,"text":"短中長期的一些策略我先請教一下部長有關短期部分當然我們目前有看到的行政院希望交通部能夠針對高鐵、台鐵、捷運、公車、客運等運輸票價動漲"},{"start":5161.44,"end":5179.292,"text":"那江湖部也針對國內航線的航空用油有決定要進行補助嘛那在經濟部的部分當然就是針對中油的部分希望能夠動漲這個國內的一個油價這是目前我們可以看到的那未來長期的部分我不曉得江湖部這邊有沒有什麼規劃"},{"start":5180.553,"end":5209.127,"text":"向委員報告因為行政院已經有政策上面的指示希望我們國內的公共運輸的部分票價不來做調漲那所以我們目前正在規劃就是說如果假使我們油價一直維持高檔的話我們包含這個公路科運也好或者是說其他的公共運輸的體系那我們應該要怎麼樣來做補貼或者是來做支撐讓它可以在不調漲的狀況底下又可以順利來做運行那目前我們也有提出了到年底也就是說今年的5月到12月"},{"start":5209.887,"end":5226.646,"text":"我們所需要的預算跟所需要的作文那另外還有評估到明年底也就是116年底我們所需要的預算大概是多少這個我們都評估過例如說到116年底我們大概需要85億左右的這個預算那我們都有針對各個運具它的所需來做這樣子的評估"},{"start":5227.327,"end":5242.56,"text":"那目前國內公共運輸比較單純的會是在這個鐵路的部分因為我們的雙鐵包含台鐵跟高鐵那因為他們是用電的不是用油的所以受油價的影響比較不高除非電價有做調整所以這方面會比較單純"},{"start":5243.641,"end":5256.789,"text":"那另外針對用油的部分其實我們有針對各個運具入海空的部分其實我們都有做一個規劃都有做規劃出來那我們會看油價的整體的變化也會跟行政院這邊來配合看怎麼樣去評議整體的運輸的物價"},{"start":5259.39,"end":5265.297,"text":"目前雖然中油有吸收成本有吸收26塊多那還是有漲了3.3塊這樣子的價格所以對一些民生的百姓的支出還是有造成壓力"},{"start":5280.174,"end":5284.84,"text":"開車上下班的通勤族那也都會連帶就是影響到物價的一個上漲那甚至也是會影響到貨運的一個成本就是很多運輸業者就是一些貨運的運輸那也會造成他們成本的一個增加"},{"start":5297.714,"end":5319.655,"text":"所以我在這邊要請教部長就是說因為這個戰爭的變數很多到底什麼時候才會結束所以我們未來有沒有可能就是去思考說降低這個燃料稅負的部分來減輕我們民眾的一個負擔向委員報告燃料的稅負是不在交通部吧不在交通部是不是"},{"start":5322.168,"end":5341.498,"text":"氣燃費是在交通部那像貨物稅那些就不在我們這邊對氣燃費的部分我覺得這個部分要做討論因為到底戰爭會跑多遠不知道那另外一方面是說我們目前所需要去協助的其實是公共運輸的部分交通部目前正在著眼的是這個部分"},{"start":5341.878,"end":5354.432,"text":"那對於整體運輸的部分因為其實中油已經犧牲了蠻高比例的燃油的成本那到底整體的稅負的部分就看行政院這邊的政策上面有沒有做什麼樣子的討論或檢討我們都會來配合"},{"start":5356.775,"end":5375.694,"text":"是因為我想這也是息息相關的就是這個油價的一個上漲當然就是會連帶造成一些民生的支出就是造成這個民眾的一個經濟的一個壓力所以我們也希望就是說未來我們也是要未雨綢繆就是說要去思考一下就是萬一這個戰爭還是會"},{"start":5378.236,"end":5385.36,"text":"拖延很長的一段時間那我們要怎樣來因應來穩定我們這個民生委員剛剛所建議的這個棄燃費的部分我們來做討論我們內部先來做討論那也要看這個整體戰爭的時間大概是多長我們會來做討論我這邊再先請教一下經濟部就是說因為對於江東部目前的"},{"start":5398.886,"end":5425.062,"text":"短期的部分大概是這樣的作為那經濟部這邊當然就是要求中油就是動漲這個油價那剛剛我有提到就是說其實每一開站到現在我們有漲了兩次就是就是我們對民生的部分我們就是一般用油的油價漲了兩次那我們是大部分的成本是由中油來吸收那也吸收了一百多億了那不曉得說未來這樣子的一個狀況我們"},{"start":5428.164,"end":5448.633,"text":"還能夠撐多久我們不知道嘛因為這個戰爭的變數很多所以未來我們看到就是說我們台灣的這個進口的來源原有的進口的來源幾乎有68%是來自於中東那我們有沒有可能降低這個就是仰賴中東的這個來源有沒有可能開闢其他原有的一個進口管道"},{"start":5449.612,"end":5470.535,"text":"跟委員報告一下就是說基本上我們在分散這個就是進口國的工作我們一直在做那像那個天然氣的部分以前現在的佔比在中東大概只有大概差不多三成左右那我們會持續因為我們最近中油大概在六月份他會有一個美國新的約進來"},{"start":5471.716,"end":5499.765,"text":"那那個基本上以後中東的那個天然氣的部分就會慢慢慢慢下降那有的部分中油現在他在北美採購的那個量也是逐步在提高當中所以我們一直在努力分散這個不同的市場來源是是因為我們也希望就是說這個基站不要放在同一個欄子因為按照這個統計的數字我們看到這個天然氣的部分異化天然氣的部分仰賴中東的比例是比較低可是原油的部分就相當高嘛有18%的比例"},{"start":5501.545,"end":5512.694,"text":"所以我們也希望就是說盡量能夠分散這個風險好 我們會努力好 謝謝那接下來我最後一個問題再問一下交通部部長那我們署長就請先回去沒關係"},{"start":5513.618,"end":5535.127,"text":"就是目前我們就是因為這個整個國際能源的一個危機就是國際石油還有天然氣供應吃緊那對我們目前進行的重大交通建設是否會受到影響比如說我們目前彰化縣內重大的交通建設就是台76線延伸到方院的這個工程"},{"start":5536.127,"end":5562.223,"text":"因為我們知道很多工程的原料比如說釐清或者是一些成本的提高我剛剛有提到運輸的成本等等會不會造成工期的延長向委員報告我們盡量不要去影響到工期也很感謝公共工程委員會其實都有做原物料的協調包含釐清的部分也提供我們很大的協助目前為止是沒有受到影響但是如果長遠來看的話未來的戰爭發展到什麼樣的狀況"},{"start":5563.744,"end":5581.733,"text":"我們還不曉得不過我們會密切注意整體原物料的這個第一它價格的波動第二它原物料的來源有沒有辦法及時供應這個部分我們會注意是好就是說我們希望就是說在這個部分我們交通部也要有事先的因應的對策是沒有錯好我們會做對策謝謝好我們感謝陳書業委員接下來我們邀請魯明哲委員發言"},{"start":5601.441,"end":5627.228,"text":"好 謝謝主席有請交通部陳部長請陳部長部長好委員好其實今天在討論這個問題對我們的立場是我們根本像世界各國一樣無法控制這個問題的走向所以我們真的是只能談發生我們要如何去應變所以我們在今天整個專題的報告大概就是"},{"start":5628.428,"end":5647.969,"text":"所有委員跟大家來討論發生什麼樣的情況能夠多做什麼事情首先第一個很多委員都說了當然中東戰事發生到現在原油的價格在波動一個大幅成長之後隨著消息面隨著消息面是談還是不談是打還是不打"},{"start":5650.111,"end":5665.809,"text":"那不斷的造成原油一個波動當然相關的副產品也造成了非常大的挑戰然後海峽的一個封鎖讓很多的原油的船隻根本出不來那就台灣現在受到影響也謝謝中油我在這邊謝謝你們"},{"start":5668.331,"end":5686.362,"text":"中油現在超過100億台塑聽說有2、3十億自行吸收那我們整個台灣的一個油價相對的是漲幅吸收蠻多的不過還是漲目前看了無鉛汽油從3月初到"},{"start":5687.422,"end":5708.891,"text":"4月13號大概漲了17%那柴油的部分從3月1號26點幾到現在31塊也是漲了大概16%那整個造成了一個真的依靠加油這個油作為一個生財工具主要成本的這樣的一個產業包括很多公共運輸造成了非常大的一個"},{"start":5709.671,"end":5711.715,"text":"對於我們這個公共運輸面除了中油力挺之外我們有什麼樣的應變方案"},{"start":5719.798,"end":5741.829,"text":"向委員報告在公共運輸的部分行政院已經有指示在國內的公共運輸我們目前票價都盡量不要去影響到民眾所以也就是不調漲那不調漲他一定有他的條件除了說中油來吸收之外例如說以航空燃油來講的話我們拜託中油從44在國內航空的供給的這個油的價格調降到28那不過這個部分也是會由交通部這邊來編列預算來還給中油這個部分我們會來做努力"},{"start":5745.091,"end":5770.779,"text":"那另外對於公車的部分也是公路客運的部分目前已經快要碰到那個必須要調漲票價的點那如果真正碰到的時候業者會提出申請那我們也會讓他做成本上面的調漲但我們對民眾的一般的那個票價不會受到影響為什麼因為交通部會提出一個票價的補貼票差的部分由交通部這邊來吸收那貨運的部分目前他們也有在提出這個可能要調漲的這個想法"},{"start":5772.6,"end":5793.532,"text":"那這個部分我們正在審議跟討論當中那我們也希望說在我們整體的貨運的價格不要調整的狀況底下他在我們核定的貨運的價格下面來做浮動那這樣我們會准許的那另外對於海運的部分其實我們也在做這方面跟剛剛所講的其他公共運輸都一樣如果有需要票價的補貼都由交通部這邊來想辦法好"},{"start":5797.463,"end":5822.872,"text":"剛剛你特別也說到不管是陸海空運輸不管是屬於私人的或者我們公共運輸其實都一樣我們整個油品的一個上漲最近的一個消息航空來油上漲122%這我讓《京津日報》這樣報告我不知道這麼正確反正大家都知道漲了很多靠怎麼樣一個補貼怎麼樣一個吸收要想辦法"},{"start":5823.752,"end":5849.762,"text":"那在整個露營園區客運啊甚至遊覽車的一個部分啊他們主要是吃柴油那柴油的部分呢從3月1號到4月13號也大概上漲16%那這樣的一個遊覽車或大客車其實燃油的成本啊大概都超過三分之一啊事實上是蠻吃重的所以我也接到很多電話啦蠻辛苦的那海運的部分當然這個部分也持續的在上漲"},{"start":5850.862,"end":5867.083,"text":"那我就請教一下部長這國際的情勢說真的不要說其他大國都沒有辦法掌握啦所以來問大家說什麼時候可以結束我覺得沒有必要這樣問了那我們講在應變的過程中我要提醒幾件事第一個現在很多的"},{"start":5867.964,"end":5888.896,"text":"客運業者包括公車好了國道客運公路客運這些業者這個對於因為前幾年減班減路線已經減一大堆了民眾已經非常不方便了千萬不要因為在這一波你知道吧這個這個最後一波造成更大的一個影響首先第一個"},{"start":5890,"end":5913.422,"text":"了解一下我問了工會啊光國光啊國光客運啊因為本身就是在那個邊緣啊我們都覺得他很危險財務啊各方面有點欠東欠西的我很擔心啊對不對你最後一個危機如果沒有協助他處理的話可能會出大事國光客運我們就了解3月份啊3月1號到3月31號這一個月咧他的油錢啊"},{"start":5917.383,"end":5940.039,"text":"比平常的月份多了600萬差不多600萬每天多20萬那本身的他們的財務就不是很好所以我們了解了公衛說對他們的一個壓力非常大我相信你也知道但我只是舉個數字把反應到底發生了什麼事情那第二個要考量的問題就是說因為台灣的一個油品現在主要的除了中油"},{"start":5940.942,"end":5960.589,"text":"之外台塑台塑當然還好也謝謝他們不能光謝謝中油也謝謝台塑石油目前的政策都是配合配合不管是中油國家政策來做調整但是我們比較擔心因為什麼時間可以結束我們真的不知道如果它真的變成中期長期"},{"start":5961.969,"end":5980.965,"text":"在國家的工具預算可以調整的過程中我們要去思考一件事可能私人的油品公司他不見得到了中長期還可以跟你弄到尾這個部分會影響到不管台塑石油他的一個想法第二個台塑石油他的所有的加盟店他的一個做法"},{"start":5981.525,"end":5999.881,"text":"那很可能做法是什麼 就是減法嘛 減法就第一個好吧 我還是開了 我還是開了每一天我們就供應一點點像很多國外在排隊啊 排很久我就限量供應 這第一種第二種咧 我減少工時啊 我根本就不開了現在我們現在台灣有這種 這樣一個狀況嗎"},{"start":6001.562,"end":6030.994,"text":"有沒有加油站不開了暫停營業了向委員報告目前我們還是要中油有暫停營業了嗎有品不足的狀況目前是沒有了有沒有沒有好那我就請問一下今天高空局沒來關西加油站今天早上貼上了暫停營業關西休吉區的加油站今天早上貼上了暫停營業誰給我可以回答這是中油還是台塑的加油站"},{"start":6033.086,"end":6059.873,"text":"高速公路國道3號關西休息站裡面的加油站貼上了暫停營業是什麼意思等一下其實你中油的內在是不是你中油的報告委員這是不是我做確認一下再回答這個問題是不是不是啦是不是來喊一下就好了是中油的是不是查過是中油"},{"start":6060.816,"end":6065.66,"text":"喔 是 我中友沒錯 但是現在是整修 所以暫停整修喔什麼時候開始整修的啊是不是每一戰士一打就開始整修了是不是啊已經整修很久了嗎我跟你講 這個東西啊 這個東西剛剛的"},{"start":6083.036,"end":6099.983,"text":"這個遊覽車業者到那邊馬上回報說什麼因為什麼這個油價上漲啊加油站都不開了我覺得你們在現場要講清楚一點如果是已經整修加油站是整修整修什麼它是整個休業區整修是不是"},{"start":6103.948,"end":6118.396,"text":"是整個休息站整修是不是對應該是休息站的加油站整修他會維修到今年的7月就會開始到今年7月從去年開始是不是對去年7月1號去年7月要到今年7月好"},{"start":6119.016,"end":6139.232,"text":"那這個部分麻煩你們寫清楚一點因為剛剛在會前才跟我說那我也會去深度去了解但你不要整修一年之後跟整修之前一樣加上機器都一模一樣也沒長大也沒縮小到時候我們回去看那我想這樣的一個情況你要特別注意一下到時候如果有減量或者減工作日的問題都會"},{"start":6140.993,"end":6156.621,"text":"都會要特別注意最後 剛剛很多委員也提到了現在面臨一個情況如果 最擔心的是如果中東熱戰是持續 持續造成荷摩斯海峽持續的封閉現在本來是一層封現在變兩關 要過兩關"},{"start":6159.403,"end":6170.937,"text":"這個伊朗跟美國要過兩關我不知道什麼時候可以解決啦如果這個遊出不來的話對於全國 全世界全世界都影響當然台灣如果變成中長期影響我覺得勢必勢必要有個應變措施"},{"start":6174.281,"end":6190.706,"text":"情境二是增加通勤費啊如果增加通勤費通常通常這個運輸成本增加可能是不管是船公司或者進口的廠商誰會去付啊忠祐忠祐說明一下吧如果增加通勤費這個部分是誰會去吸收"},{"start":6192.651,"end":6210.736,"text":"目前沒有這種狀態沒有嗎 還沒付不是 也沒有討論這個事情是就沒有討論到所以可能要思考一下因為我看這個狀況以後會不會伊朗不收 美國也要收如果有這條增加通行費"},{"start":6211.856,"end":6239.911,"text":"到底是怎麼回事他未來的反應的情況是如何我覺得要追蹤一下因為這個事情還沒有確定那我想針對於這整個的一個郵品因為中東戰事不斷的一個波動甚至上升會不會馬上停那大家恢復一樣我們當然很期待啦那我們也希望交通部也好我們中永相關的把這個能夠掌握最新的情況能夠給相關的一個業者能夠最好的協助 謝謝"},{"start":6242.438,"end":6261.612,"text":"好 我們非常感謝許物可委員接下來不是 我們謝謝魯明哲委員那接下來我們特別感謝魯明哲委員剛剛的發言我們接下來就邀請到陳青龍委員好 謝謝"},{"start":6272.879,"end":6276.946,"text":"主席 請我們交通部 陳部長好 我們請陳部長謝謝 謝謝主席"},{"start":6283.188,"end":6307.208,"text":"委員好部長好我想油價雖然我們動漲油價還是上漲那我們很多通勤族還是以機車作為主要的一個通勤的工具尤其我們上班族但是我們現在"},{"start":6309.109,"end":6321.08,"text":"發現有一個狀況就是機車 口罩 靠騎車 靠腳腳我們現在全面改用網路預約結果現在機車 口罩人們去預約好像比這個要搶這個"},{"start":6330.047,"end":6357.466,"text":"這個演唱會的門票還要困難喔我可以報告這家店舖的機車口罩形成網路的一個關鍵字那我們民意代表的服務處現在竟然機車口罩竟然也會變成民眾到服務處尋求陳情協助的一個服務項目那我去了解一下我們從這個表格來看"},{"start":6358.507,"end":6379.464,"text":"我們採用全面的網路預約好那我們在2023年我們可以來提供給民眾來考照的一個預約的一個名額的額度35萬人左右但是啊到2024年就整個遞減2025更遞減到28萬人整個名額啊"},{"start":6385.991,"end":6402.782,"text":"像這樣讓民眾整個為了考驗照像我們要去一個月就要去抽要去預約然後又預約不到我們不是要鼓勵我們所有的國民"},{"start":6403.888,"end":6423.519,"text":"我們要安全駕駛我們要取得駕駛執照之後才能夠安全上路嗎但是這個考照為什麼會變成這麼困難保證你跟台亞地中民生最迫切的一個問題我最近其實也密集跟公路局在討論這個問題"},{"start":6425.18,"end":6438.811,"text":"因為確實民眾已經有反應而且不是一小段時間已經好幾個月都有反應這樣的現象那我們不應該讓民眾在考照的過程當中遇到這樣的困難不應該啊這事實就是存在像委員報告他其實預約制已經實行10年從105年到現在實行10年所以問題不在預約制"},{"start":6445.956,"end":6458.01,"text":"是我們這個供給的部分可能不符合現在的需求那我有要求這個公路局在短時間之內我們先做一個措施讓他可以成長10%的這個提供的名額過去的網路預約沒問題為何近兩年會產生這樣的問題"},{"start":6464.333,"end":6480.328,"text":"這個要檢討啊那我也有去了解喔最重要因為現在整個預約大家去搶那會變成就像搶門票一樣嘛大家都要搶喔大家都去搶你知道嗎那你一搶"},{"start":6481.269,"end":6508.34,"text":"你就會發覺他只要搶到他就登錄對不對但是時間到了他不去他不去考就是這樣的一個報名預約到的名額就變成被浪費掉了大家都是我們說明天我叫做先唱先贏先吃先贏嘛他就去站了站了到時候時間到了他就缺考結果這些名額"},{"start":6509.48,"end":6531.461,"text":"就沒辦法來適時的使用嘛我們從去年的一個報考人數我們來看28萬9千人的報考只有21萬8千人去真正的倒考有7萬1千人根本沒有去也就是啊 大家看不看得到四分之一的人根本沒去考"},{"start":6532.302,"end":6549.875,"text":"不去考,大家就出事,產生這麼嚴重的問題所以在這樣的情況,想考的人沒辦法去考,報的名的人不去考產生這樣的一個網路,這個預約的黑洞在那裡"},{"start":6550.995,"end":6559.821,"text":"這個部分我們有檢討要怎麼處理嗎謝謝委員關心您所關心的這個議題其實我們之前有檢討過那在之前1月之前今年1月之前報考率是75%我們檢討完換了新機制之後現在的報考率是到97%已經到97%了但是目前的情況能夠釋出的名額會更多"},{"start":6573.77,"end":6592.154,"text":"有能夠來提 讓道考慮啊整個提升就是我們的要求嘛對不對 因為我們的能量一直在低減我剛剛有講嘛我們提供的能量 民耳一直在低減那你道考慮一定要提升啊不然民眾的有一個埋怨啊"},{"start":6593.095,"end":6606.77,"text":"還是存在 像委員報告一方面倒考率提升那二方面我會讓整體的可以考的名額再提升 名額要增加我這邊就有提出建議了我希望倒考率的名額要釋出那要滾"},{"start":6608.532,"end":6633.73,"text":"滾動的一個檢討你讓民眾要考一個技巧的教學變成困難這個就一定要處理要檢討了好不好我們公務局也在這邊我們希望一起來讓民眾能夠有考個駕照能夠更方便好不好那接下來我在這邊也要討論提出一個"},{"start":6634.931,"end":6656.147,"text":"建議我們現在反正油價上漲我們通勤組運用大眾運輸工具的一個情況越來越多尤其高鐵台北台中南部台北這樣的一個用高鐵來通勤的一個比例人數越來越多"},{"start":6657.288,"end":6669.819,"text":"那我在這邊我有發覺我們高鐵這邊有一個這個票制彈性不夠彈性不夠它在郵費方面它只有兩種一個叫經期票一個叫回溯票"},{"start":6672.481,"end":6700.204,"text":"那前陣子我們高鐵有在討論這個票價的調漲嘛 要調整當然目前因為中東戰爭因素還有整個帕海這個漲價影響我們的一個通貨膨脹我相信高鐵是不會漲價 不會漲價但是啊 它過去我們在定期票的部分喔它過去喔 希望它就趕回省喔"},{"start":6700.965,"end":6726.552,"text":"那二十天下去算就是禮拜六禮拜天不算了一天兩天它的折扣算起來應該在一萬三千兩百三十塊後來現在就改成只有一種定期票一天二十天改成三十天存一張存一張那一張下去處理就變成了"},{"start":6727.432,"end":6753.506,"text":"他的定期票會變成啦我這個是以台中跟台北為例子台中跟台北一天兩座來說你該做三十天來算我的定期票一個月就要花到一千九百多啦一萬九千八百四十五塊以我台北台中這樣來算所以其實這裡就有變相的一個調漲價格就沖清楚來"},{"start":6757.668,"end":6778.425,"text":"原來的定期票我改中改半,我一公尺百分之一萬三現在都要變成一萬九另外一種優惠就叫做回溯票,我們來看回溯票回溯票你目前只有兩種,一種是三十天的十次八二折另外一種是六十天的八次九二折"},{"start":6779.165,"end":6796.712,"text":"所以我們剛才要跟國企說的就是定期票你調整成從20天的調整30天只有一種變相漲價第二個你的回溯票你只有一個30天做10趟的82折60天做8趟92折"},{"start":6800.353,"end":6821.979,"text":"那我在這邊我建議的 因為我每天也是一樣 台中台北這樣同情我們的建議就是 我在這邊提出建議 回溯票的制度 是不是可以來增加回溯票 你目前30天只有10趟 你能不能來研議啊"},{"start":6822.719,"end":6846.351,"text":"我比如說我一個月內40趟還是20天內40趟那個折扣數你可以從原來的92折82折去調整成類似我建議的65折讓這個彈性 優惠的彈性更多讓通勤組的民眾更方便來使用"},{"start":6847.752,"end":6860.878,"text":"這也是因應我們票價未來可能調漲的一個方案在這裡是不是請交通部長還是我們高鐵局這邊能夠做一個高鐵公司這邊做個回應"},{"start":6862.103,"end":6880.476,"text":"謝謝委員您剛剛說的那個條帳的部分目前都不是真正在落實的方案其實高鐵各種方案都在滾動檢討委員您現在在建議的這個20日40次的這個部分我們也請高鐵公司把它納入檢討的範圍裡面我們來討論看有沒有這樣的可能性您的說法沒有錯啦"},{"start":6881.116,"end":6887.961,"text":"讓他更有彈性更有彈性讓這個通勤組有更有彈性更多的選擇對對對有更多的應用讓我們的票價定期票回溯票這樣的一個優惠能夠更有彈性那目前其實也有其他的委員有其他的建議對包含30天跟60天中間再差一個"},{"start":6898.468,"end":6912.471,"text":"那彈性是正確的了所以現在高鐵公司也有在做檢查高鐵公司應該更加的靈活啦最優惠的一個制度更加的靈活這是我的建議好 以上 謝謝謝謝陳青龍委員的質詢接著我們請林俊憲召委發言"},{"start":6928.424,"end":6944.164,"text":"好 謝謝主席 本席邀請我們交通部陳部長有請陳部長我們中油方董事長請中油方董事長還有我們能源署的吳署長吳代理署長能源署歐代理署長 謝謝"},{"start":6946.65,"end":6973.629,"text":"委員好 部長好在這次的中東危機啊謝謝啦 我想我們政府相關部門大家都很合作那也很辛苦啦那至少第一個我們目前的一些物價的調漲啊都看起來跟其他國家來比啦台灣其實狀況都還控制得還不錯啦當然未來的危機還沒有解除啦"},{"start":6974.54,"end":6976.583,"text":"我們現在手裡掌握確定的量到多少"},{"start":6994.065,"end":7017.987,"text":"目前都掌握在維持在12天以上所以法定時我們到12天那4月本月份的供應量有沒有問題沒有問題5月份呢5月份沒有問題6月呢6月沒問題我們在佈局是7月以後的7月以後所以至少我們目前有三個月幾乎三個月4月5月6月天然氣的供應目前量"},{"start":7018.607,"end":7031.254,"text":"我們終有掌握住了嗎是 都掌握住另外就是油價現在我們大概漲了以95無限汽油來講漲了18%差不多那未來還會再調漲嗎未來會不會調漲就看我們現在的掌握的供應量你覺得是比上個月還要好了就是說狀況又緩和了還是更嚴重"},{"start":7045.188,"end":7055.857,"text":"在量的部分的話現在的一個掌握的情形是比上個月要好很多了那好很多的話那未來渴望不會再調漲了吧"},{"start":7056.702,"end":7084.62,"text":"這是量的部分但價格的部分的話就要看國際的油價國際油價它變化的情形再來做每週的一個檢討至少我們台灣第一個油價有的國家根本是漲翻天了漲一倍以上都有甚至根本買不到油所以加油站大排長龍至少我要肯定我們政府團隊就民心就是說這個安定你看到加油站"},{"start":7085.72,"end":7105.346,"text":"沒有人在排隊吧我想中油應該也特別注意到這種狀況嘛因為你有的國家是根本你有錢也交不到油所以加油站就出現恐慌性的大家這樣去排隊啦至少這個在台灣也沒有看到啦沒有目前都是加油站的機制都維持戰前都是一模一樣的"},{"start":7106.346,"end":7123.493,"text":"所以我們希望政府相關團隊的相關部會我們這個團隊大家未來要緊密的在合作至少在危機還沒有解除現在看起來不知道什麼時候可以解除這也沒有人知道了我們大家持續努力謝謝大家辛苦了兩位請回座兩位想要補充的"},{"start":7131.204,"end":7145.931,"text":"跟委員報告一下這個基本上該委員問的那個部分我們會持續去滾動檢討我們相關的機制那我們基本上就是我們還是秉持一個就是第一個就是量要足加要穩這兩個政策跟委員報告謝謝好謝謝兩位請回座請陳部長陳部長我另外再跟你關心一下我們一個民生問題"},{"start":7153.354,"end":7174.561,"text":"部長有沒有坐過多元計程車?你坐到寶庭我看不機會坐有啦 時尚座你坐寶庭還要坐幾乎每個禮拜都會坐那是我坐的我也會坐 我每個禮拜都會坐你說現在計程車大部分都已經是透過網路平台多元計程車多元計程車網路平台已經達到了72.5%"},{"start":7177.532,"end":7205.814,"text":"現在司機已經很少會巡迴覽客了大概只有台北市你還看得到其他很多地方空計程車在街上這樣跑已經很少了尤其現在油價這麼貴所以已經72.5%都是透過網路轎車了或者是招呼站 或者是熟客人家可以指定轎車 或者是定點排班那我們台灣的多元計程車登記的數量"},{"start":7207.711,"end":7235.927,"text":"我記得我剛到交通委員會的那一年台灣的多元計程車不到不到一千台八百多台到現在2025年台灣的多元計程車已經從八百部增加到三萬六千部這增加4.5倍所以這其中我就要跟部長討論一個問題那就是平台的問題"},{"start":7237.543,"end":7265.409,"text":"那前幾天有發生兩個新聞 你有沒有看到第一個很不幸的台64線發生多元車輛 多元計程車把一個年輕人強行丟包丟在快速道路上那這位年輕人就被後續的車輛給四台車把他給撞死了第二個就是有家長指控Uber的司機因為他把他43歲的女兒丟包因為他女兒好像是改變路線還是怎麼樣那駕駛就把他丟在路邊了"},{"start":7266.714,"end":7290.011,"text":"因為駕駛趕著要說他要接另外下一個單那這種狀況下你看未成年少女他43歲他身上一毛錢都沒有就站在路邊哭那在這裡出現一個問題如果出現了像這樣那消費者如果權益受損甚至發生 甚至有發生命案那平台有沒有負責任第一個"},{"start":7293.154,"end":7314.5,"text":"旅客被丟包撞死的這個平台說 不關我的事啊我只是負責媒介 他說他有些人叫這樣他拒絕 他認為說法律上他沒有任何責任那實際上現在平台 第一個他審核司機的資格第二個他派單邏輯是他決定的第三 價格機制"},{"start":7319.361,"end":7346.497,"text":"而且他有抽取佣金所以他透過對司機的平等 平價系統甚至可以影響司機的收入和他的生活我再告訴你平台現在是掌控了整個運輸服務的核心權利平台的權利很大 對不對這都是他的權利 一旦發生重大事故平台現在說 我只是媒合"},{"start":7347.898,"end":7371.496,"text":"然後把風險還有賠償的責任全部都丟給駕駛甚至我們整個社會要來承擔這種有權無責過去你不會感受到那現在台灣的多元計程車已經達到這麼高的數量了而且國人的使用習慣已經駕駛了他加入這個平台叫車已經達到超過七成了"},{"start":7372.716,"end":7386.262,"text":"這狀況下 我們對於平台的裁罰或管理你看 撞死了那一次 那個平台司機丟包害那個人被撞死我們只裁罰平台一萬多塊"},{"start":7390.489,"end":7406.907,"text":"他負的責任跟他長有的權利顯然不成比例我們再來看其他國家現在很多國家 現在幾乎全世界都是平台這平台在叫車 就多元車輛 計程車新加坡 你平台有很重的責任"},{"start":7407.932,"end":7437.222,"text":"你注意看那政府監理手段我也給大家參考政府是可以撤銷營運執照那英國也是啦澳洲也是韓國也是只有台灣第一個平台是沒有責任的那政府也沒什麼監理手段那請教一下部長你對現在平台對於多元車輛的平台是否應該要負起相關責任還有政府是否應該要有一定的監理手段來部長你的看法"},{"start":7437.99,"end":7465.025,"text":"像委員報告確實平台也應該要負起一些責任所以我們目前對於交通部來講平台跟車隊其實是綁在一起的對我們的角度來看他們都是要共同負起所謂的行政責任那民事責任的部分還有一塊除了車隊跟平台以外還有一個是車行車行必須負起民事責任所以之前所看到的案件他的民事的賠償大概車行就必須要負起責任那刑事的部分當然就在駕駛你看"},{"start":7465.805,"end":7484.92,"text":"上次那個丟包的事情平台你只罰他一萬多塊他第一時間說這不關我的事啊我只負責媒介我現在講的不是車隊我講的是平台是車隊跟這個平台其實是綁在一起的我們是罰車隊比較多因為要負起行政管理責任但是他們會綁在一起"},{"start":7485.64,"end":7506.95,"text":"車隊沒有辦法去做不是他在做這個媒介的工作啦很多國家我現在給你看啦我因為時間的關係啦你現在目前你根本沒有一個監理手段啦你去比較一下台灣跟新加坡英國澳洲韓國我們台灣幾乎是政府是完全沒有監理手段你這種事情其他國家這種平等他絕對不敢說這不關我的事"},{"start":7507.45,"end":7513.812,"text":"我們會盡量讓平台要負起責任你要去修改保障消費者權益 保障司機我們會盡量來保障消費者的權益 這個我們會來努力委員這個建議很好 謝謝謝謝林俊憲 張偉德發言那我們接著有請陳雪生委員發言"},{"start":7541.052,"end":7553.116,"text":"好 那陳委員稍等齁待會黃建華委員發言完我會處理民事提案齁那徐屋奎委員發言完我們休息十分鐘好 謝謝 請陳委員好 謝謝趙偉 是不是請部長好 請陳部長陳部長 陳部長 陳部長 陳部長公請陳部長部長今天 今天天氣很好"},{"start":7570.507,"end":7587.15,"text":"天氣還蠻溫暖馬祖霧很大這個季節 春天馬祖跟金門霧的機率比較高一些來個雨 太陽一出來 霧很大雲高也不對 能見度也不行所以"},{"start":7589.045,"end":7611.951,"text":"最近我們那個新台馬輪發揮很大的作用然後那個小船南北海運他的小船500噸也發揮很大的功能把一些旅客、觀光客、我們民眾都運過來還有那個是不是請一下那個誰華航董事長高董事長我們請華航的高董事長謝謝,謝謝召委"},{"start":7621.772,"end":7650.338,"text":"高董,我今天要讚美你,你真的好棒棒你當了董事長,我跟謝董很好,我跟你還不是很好後來當然現在也很好了你不但飛了馬祖,承載了我們的航空然後還要加班,還要再飛一架次禮拜一這個計畫成熟了沒有?現在就等第13架的ATR到了"},{"start":7651.343,"end":7668.682,"text":"我就可以了?好昨天我們副昆吉總召委很緊張你要把花蓮油價的因素是不是要停掉?有這個打算嗎?我目前是想說你麥克風拿起來講話"},{"start":7671.459,"end":7692.168,"text":"跟委員報告一下我們現在希望的就是說在某一些那個情況之下不要浪費掉那個運能那把這個運能放到在那個地面交通沒有辦法到達的像離島啊這個是比較對我們來講對民生來講是應該是比較重要的那個航線那目前都還在討論當中"},{"start":7693.683,"end":7712.824,"text":"不過基於對委員的尊重,區域委員有他的壓力,還是要溝通協調好不好?是尤其在油料上漲,我一直生怕說,當然你沒得停了啦,一個禮拜只有一班嘛對不對?利融的話我就怕他減班啊幹什麼的,當然利融是民間的航空公司啊"},{"start":7713.766,"end":7734.2,"text":"所以我覺得高董上來以後,對我們釋出很大的善意好不好?部長,你要不會保養他一下?當然當然好,請回部長講到航空公司,我再提一下昨天國發會有開會,對我們有關相關離島的一些補助很糟糕"},{"start":7744.352,"end":7772.361,"text":"昨天就已經否決了不同意了如果部長如果你站在我的角度你是立法委員你站在這裡然後你在那邊審預算那我們很多的預算已經被否決掉了你叫我審預算審什麼預算你叫我審預算審誰的預算我的預算都被你否決掉啦"},{"start":7773.803,"end":7801.138,"text":"那我一定全部都把他砍掉嘛一定是這樣嘛如果是你是不是這樣子如果你是立法委會不會這樣不一定啦不一定喔有嗎 你學佛的啊你是哪一教的天主教基督教我找不到這樣的信徒欸我昨天已經知道你把我地區的預算都已經全部砍掉廣東署有沒有來廣東署在這邊"},{"start":7801.963,"end":7827.603,"text":"國防署在哪裡副署長對不起你報預算全部都砍掉了國防署沒有砍有行銷活動行銷活動及智慧旅遊品質提升計畫離島基金你們要給五千六百萬昨天已經很相信沒了"},{"start":7829.205,"end":7854.636,"text":"現在中央是交通部公安署你們也沒辦法保證那這個契機中間就停擺了嘛停擺了那你要這個基金幹什麼?離島基金啊離島基金你國防會都不給不是只有金門馬祖耶金門馬祖是國民黨的還有澎湖,澎湖是民進黨籍的執政耶這個不能這樣搞嘛"},{"start":7859.485,"end":7859.988,"text":"你這樣審一審你家伙怎麼審"},{"start":7862.079,"end":7890.282,"text":"我連審都不審啊現在不是馬上要審預算了嗎你這種態度的話你叫我怎麼審得下去向委員報告您在說的這個行銷的部分是因為馬祖的這個縣政府連江縣政府他們提出計畫的時間有比較晚一點所以有點來不及不過我們觀光署已經有跟這個國發會這邊來協調過了現在送過來之後我們後續還是會來協助他來爭取到這個預算我們要審預算也是延後啦已經"},{"start":7891.002,"end":7914.489,"text":"多少天沒審啊報告委員這個部分不用擔心這個部分我們已經跟國發會已經有共識了是當時連江縣政府送的比較慢不是不用擔心我生不著覺啊你不用擔心你講不用擔心你看還有那個與神同行2.0媽祖海巡媽祖平安祈福你們給540萬我們這個60萬都被打回票了都沒有了"},{"start":7916.821,"end":7943,"text":"這沒有道理吧委員我剛剛有講過這個也包含在剛剛那個案子裡面我們已經跟國發會有共識了我們後面會來協助他把這個預算還有上一次我諮詢你大邱那個旅遊活動中心一億多都蓋好了現在第二期機會五千萬我現在蓋了一半蓋了一半房子在那邊等等進度等進度你現在五千萬你不撥那個是我們"},{"start":7947.847,"end":7972.469,"text":"我們縣政府代執行你知道嗎本來這個是官方所要去執行的啦大邱這個沒有問題啦這個部分沒問題總預算過了都不會有問題總預算過了不會有問題你說哪裡總預算這一次的大邱二期因為財化法的緣故啦其他的不會那等你們預算通過"},{"start":7973.769,"end":8003.092,"text":"沒通過就擺在那邊曬風吹日曬雨淋這好像不是一個政府的態度吧沒通過不能花錢沒通過錢就不能花你站在我的立場你如果是立法委員的話你面對你交通部的預算你怎麼樣去處理它怎麼樣去審它將心比心你想好以後你不要說我拿著刀子在砍你們在殺你們"},{"start":8004.72,"end":8028.479,"text":"這樣合理嗎報告委員您剛剛所關心的那個七期的部分那個行銷的費用我也跟您報告現在第三次這個沒有問題我們跟國發會已經有共識所以這個不會造成你只是講其中之一啊我剛才跟你講那個是蓋房子蓋一半還有航空機駐地備勤的經費補助這裡面牽涉到東影跟那個你們只補助了多少錢啊"},{"start":8030.626,"end":8048.017,"text":"很像只給了2153萬你這影響到舉官跟民眾的交通權益你回去查一下好不好好 報告委員這個部分我還第一次聽到那我回去了解一下沒關係 你回去查一下好不好報告委員這個也是因為財化法的因素啦"},{"start":8048.217,"end":8077.541,"text":"您剛剛在講大邱那個也是財化法的因素那這個也是一樣就是說錢都是政府的那現在多一些已經在地方政府了那地方政府就可以負起更大的責任那我們這邊也不會把錢留住我們能夠花的錢我們一定會補助到地方現在的財政部跟組織總處齁一直拿說財化法的問題來空我們欸 全國各縣市財化法都占到便宜欸唯獨馬祖是負的啊負的現在勒"},{"start":8079.441,"end":8099.353,"text":"財政部給一個正的正的也就幫你平衡而已好啦 那很多錢你們要地方政府去出我地方政府也只是打平而已我沒有賺到錢啊不像其他各縣市政府金門多了一百多億啊我們沒有多啊我們一兩億都沒多啊"},{"start":8101.118,"end":8123.075,"text":"不公平嘛報告委員其實交通部也沒有賺到錢交通部也是減少的那我們只要我們擁有的預算一定會全力來協助地方這個您放心不是我沒有去責難你的意思我是希望就是說你將心比心嘛你站在你也是立法委員的立場來看待這個交通部"},{"start":8124.366,"end":8145.982,"text":"好不好你不要一直站在交通部的立場來看來看我們立法委員有沒有在那邊胡扯亂扯我沒有欸我對你們是很有善的是委員都是為了地方在爭取這個我了解有啊我也為了你們交通部也在努力啊是不是每次審議算我們我們召委據監委員跟我你看同事多少年了"},{"start":8147.796,"end":8171.455,"text":"是不是這樣,好不好?謝謝委員那他在說我了,時間到了我就不講了好不好,謝謝了非常感謝陳雪生委員好,謝謝陳委員接下來我們要請黃建豪召委發言後面兩個在等"},{"start":8176.26,"end":8181.788,"text":"好謝謝主席我們要先請交通部陳部長請陳部長然後我們請鐵道局楊局長請楊局長"},{"start":8187.233,"end":8214.03,"text":"委員好部長早部長一開始還是要跟你就教一下我們台中捷運幾個問題當然我最關心當然是我們這個捷運綠線延伸的問題台中市在我們在我們在1月114年1月13號的時候我們有去現砍嘛那時候有一些現在現場一些結論那台中市政府在這個今年去年1百1百對不起今年115年2月26號的時候有提報相關的這個綜合變化到交通部那我想要肯定啦肯定什麼呢"},{"start":8214.91,"end":8236.989,"text":"4月8號你把他退回了肯定什麼 就是至少這個時辰沒有拖很久才退回2月26到4月8號終於過了兩個年假所以整個大概一個月內 看一看你們覺得不合適就把他退回那你們希望說 目的是希望說等到這個張東都市計畫內政部核定後再來提報審議這個我們討論過非常多次就是張華的都市計畫不在台中市這個"},{"start":8238.769,"end":8258.68,"text":"可以管轄的範圍裡面所以如果要要求到這個張東都市計畫提報審議才能審議的話我想這個捷運的進度會一直無限期的延長所以那裡面今天你們提到退回的理由提到說要等到張東都市計畫核定後才能去送可是當初我們談的應該說那個核定後才抱怨"},{"start":8259.537,"end":8275.214,"text":"才去報行政院那現在這個階段你把他退回那他市府一定想重送嗎那我們作為這個台中立委想問一件事情讓我重送給交通部的時候要怎麼樣符合什麼樣條件你才不會再把他退回才能進入正式的審議階段我請局長回答好 謝謝"},{"start":8277.105,"end":8298.958,"text":"跟委員報告因為當初院核定的時候可行性研究的時候就附帶這樣的一個核定的指示對也就是說希望張東都是要通過之後再來提報行政院那現階段交通部要進行審議的話顯然這個會變成是一個要件也就是說這個部分沒有達成就沒有辦法完成這一個行政上面的審查的程序"},{"start":8299.764,"end":8323.967,"text":"我們記得那時候在考察的時候也提到一件事情希望說這個同步進行嘛 你一邊審你審又不是今天 今天是我們那天就好我一邊審的時候搞不好張東都市計畫那邊會有些變數嘛會有些可能這個其他有關技術跟財務跟運量的部分我們可以來同步進行相關的審查動作但是如果我們要送出門恐怕這個行政院的要件必須要達成"},{"start":8324.728,"end":8346.001,"text":"對啊 那我說那現在 問題是現在我要我們不要花太多時間在這個事情上面 我是想說今天我要重新送到交通部來審你審完你才會抱怨嘛 終點還要經過國發會有的沒有的 很多行政的時間那我今天您退回了今天4月8號退回台中市政府之後台中市政府今天要重送 它一定要有一個什麼樣的改變"},{"start":8347.236,"end":8373.389,"text":"才有意義嘛好那你們明確指示一下他重送的話要怎麼樣您現在台中市政府送過來您剛所提到的包含他的經費包含他的技術層面等等的我們先做實質的審議啦真正來做討論那對於行政院所要求的那個大方向如果不符合我們沒辦法送出去但您所關心的這個希望就其他的面向我們來做實際上的審查那這個我們來做這個沒有問題"},{"start":8374.73,"end":8397.612,"text":"好那我知道了我們後面再來溝通那再來一樣是還是一樣捷運我們台中市太多捷運都還停擺的卡住那是停擺了這個藍線也是個問題我們在這個113年1月29號的時候當然行政原則同意藍線綜合規劃案那當初原則同意的公文裡面有一句話講說因為是原則同意所以有些條件那要報請一樣要報請行政院在計畫動作前抱怨核定"},{"start":8398.453,"end":8428.013,"text":"那這個計畫呢在5月21號的時候交通部幫我們在1月113年5月21號也就是兩年前的5月21號交通部有幫我們核轉核到行政院去但從那個時候到現在行政院還是一直沒有回市政府說到底後續怎麼樣就是包含說在這份公文裡面喔在後續我再跟你討論啦就是說台中市的藍線已經動工了但是當初公文裡面有一件事情是說動工前要抱怨核定這個新的計畫那這個東西如果沒有完備的話會不會影響到我們後續動工的流程"},{"start":8429.093,"end":8453.339,"text":"會吧各位報告這個程序我們有在follow那目前我們的觀察是應該不會影響好謝謝再一個局限局限在我們113年7月2號也是兩年也是兩年前交通部終於願意我們的這個可經濟化那中間經過幾個流程10月1號市府送到交通部那交通部後來合轉到行政院去那在114年8月1號"},{"start":8455.499,"end":8483.785,"text":"市府又重新送了一遍說要要要促餐嘛那後來促餐那邊說不用促餐所以115年這個2月2號交通部現在終於把這個可行性研究送到行政院審議了從113年7月2號到115年2月2號這個時間就這樣這個時間已經現在已經送出去行政院核定那送行政院核定到底什麼時候會回來給台中市政府有沒有這個預計的啟程這個目前是行政院在處理當中我想我們沒有辦法去預定他的啟程"},{"start":8484.793,"end":8499.595,"text":"好 部長我跟您報告我跟您拜託啦如果說台中市這個幾個重大的捷運建設我想對台中市的發展都非常的重要台中市人口現在真的是非常多嘛你看一個將近300萬的城市現在就一條捷運我想從台灣各大城市來講這個配比相對是比較少一點"},{"start":8500.296,"end":8526.363,"text":"所以我們希望說在行政流程上至少在部這邊在文書作業上我們能夠加快的好不好後續幾個問題交通部會來加速我也希望台中的捷運的速度可以再加快一點當然一定要這個再來一樣是一個政策問題但今天討論到這個這個能源上漲問題大家都很在意說這個未來的車輛未來的相關的這些新形態的這個汽車的補助或者它的研發能夠往節能的方向來走"},{"start":8528.303,"end":8535.856,"text":"那之前這個為了配合我們政府的2050近年關鍵戰略的這個運具電動化跟無碳化有一個這樣子的國產電動車的這個計畫那當然"},{"start":8541.271,"end":8565.71,"text":"這後來這個車子也演發出來的那交通部呢在去年5月6號的時候開了一個運輸部門檢探旗艦的這個社會溝通會議提出是好意啦說商用車商用車輛電動化跟無碳化的這個計畫裡面要針對電動小貨車每台50萬元的購車補助有這樣子一個計畫而這去年提出來去年9月30號核定114年9月30號核定核定完之後他現在因為錢沒有進來嘛"},{"start":8571.377,"end":8575.466,"text":"那搞出什么现在业界的问题是说我车已经准备好料都准备好"},{"start":8576.618,"end":8604.044,"text":"之前的造價 用之前的造價就準備好了可是因為市場上在等這個所謂50萬元的補助但是這補助一直沒有上路啊那所以導致整個市場停板報告委員 因為它去年9月核定也來不及編今年的預算因為去年我們在9月更早之前我們就已經編列了今年的預算所以來不及放進來但我們這個部分的計畫會放在明年的預算我們今年會把它編進來編到明年的預算所以明年就可以落實這個部分沒有問題"},{"start":8604.764,"end":8626.504,"text":"部長是這樣啦 我覺得要把這個實務面跟你說明一下啦今天這些車廠這些民間業者他們配合政府政策已經把相關的這些車子都已經準備好做好了也希望能夠順利的趕快上市趕快來進行這個商業上的這個行為但是因為大家市場上大家又在觀望所謂的50萬元的補助"},{"start":8628.286,"end":8644.896,"text":"有沒有一種可能性說既然如果這是確定要做的也是你們承諾要做的不管預算先強調這不是我們沒有審的沒有審預算的問題這個是本來就沒有編進去那既然這確定要做那是不是讓這個政策可以先上路你真的明年度編進來之後後續再去補嘛就跟你"},{"start":8645.796,"end":8656.004,"text":"報稅一樣啊就跟說這種房地合一稅要減稅一樣啊我後續再遞相關的文件來證明說我在這段期間買的車子我一樣可以適用這個50萬元電動車的補助要不然整個商業市場整個這種運氣就停下來了可以這樣做嗎"},{"start":8661.207,"end":8677.101,"text":"報告委員今年預算裡面沒有包含這一項那能不能這樣子指引我們回去再討論你什麼時候可以給大家一個說法我們今年一定會把這個細部的審查的計畫先把它提好明年只要時間一到提進來我們就有辦法順利來審查"},{"start":8678.883,"end":8695.471,"text":"這沒問題我是說當然如果你當然錢進來了預算都上路當然這沒問題但我現在說能不能先走我們的預算有沒有辦法這樣支應第一法規上行不行第二我們有沒有錢這也是很關鍵的目前交通部的預算不太足夠的狀況底下能不能做我們討論一下"},{"start":8696.331,"end":8723.263,"text":"因為我要跟你講 我要先講我肯定你們是好意 你需要補助50萬元讓大家能夠多多的去採購電動的貨車把過去舊的那種柴油或者是這種汽油的貨車來把它淘汰掉希望往電動車的方向來發展這個是OK的 我覺得是好的方向但問題是時間點今天市場上已經有這個東西了那大家也都準備好 也配合經濟部趕快把它弄出來準備要做了結果因為你丟出一個50萬元補助的這個"},{"start":8725.224,"end":8752.117,"text":"這個補助所以消費者覺得說那我如果現在買我就虧五十萬欸不是五萬是五十萬當然對這些這些自營商或中廠企業主來講這個影響非常大嘛委員在說是要解決今年的問題對啊我們來討論一下好不好好我們來討論一下OK謝謝好我們感謝黃建豪召委好各位委員那我們現在就處理臨時提案"},{"start":8754.924,"end":8756.855,"text":"請醫事人員一併宣讀第一案"},{"start":8758.978,"end":8785.056,"text":"臨時提案一 依據官方統計資料顯示114年高鐵嘉義站全年進出旅客670萬人次平均日運量達18000人次為因應嘉義市地方發展並保障民眾通勤權益請交通部會同高鐵公司研議增開嘉義站往返台北之快車與夜間班次以提供更為及時便捷的高鐵運輸服務"},{"start":8786.497,"end":8791.626,"text":"提案委員 陳素月 徐富奎 何新淳 王美惠"},{"start":8792.932,"end":8820.461,"text":"二有鑒於國內花蓮航線因近年天災不斷近期發生中東戰爭面臨油價成本上漲的困境航空業者出現停飛航班的聲音基於保障花東居民的基本交通權益及積極促進花東觀光發展要求交通部針對國內花蓮航線國家級的承諾備援生命線的持續運行以落實區域平衡交通平權"},{"start":8821.381,"end":8838.237,"text":"與二周內提出專案報告提案委員黃建豪、萬美玲、陳雪生、洪孟凱、魯明哲、布昆奇、鄭天才宣讀完畢好 謝謝我們各位委員及行政單位有沒有意見第一案"},{"start":8839.725,"end":8866.969,"text":"委員有意見嗎跟主席報告台灣高鐵公司這邊補充說明114年高鐵嘉義站確定進出旅客人次是671萬人次那後續高鐵公司會就委員的建議會進行後續的研議評估好感謝就是那個稍微修正一下那個進出站的人次有670改為671好各位委員如果沒有意見的話那本案就修正通過好第一案"},{"start":8868.373,"end":8871.808,"text":"各位委員有沒有意見好 行政部門來請發言"},{"start":8875.933,"end":8904.259,"text":"黃建華委員 不好意思補充一下這個當然大家都很關心我們這個花蓮這部分的這個對外聯絡交通所以說今天我們來也非常多黨籍委員也是一起來關心這個案子我們希望說還是要站在這個交通的角度就是這種花蓮它的地形它的氣候比較特跟我們西部城市還是不太一樣所以我覺得還是要考量到這個他們當地民眾的這個運具的需求我希望說這個提案能夠這個交通部能夠支持以上"},{"start":8905.68,"end":8908.321,"text":"各位委員如果對上述提案要補簽列入紀錄並且刊登公報"},{"start":8931.257,"end":8955.034,"text":"好 那我們現在就開始繼續進行詢問請徐祿魁委員發言徐委員發言完 我們就休息10分鐘謝主席 邀請我們陳部長請陳部長民調局何局長請何局長觀光署黃副署長黃副署長你好"},{"start":8961.13,"end":8984.59,"text":"是 部長部長我看了一下新聞您昨天有到中部是也幫我們交通部來行銷跟著馬祖走了一段路我們的氣象軍氣象軍會累嗎很熱 流很多汗 但不會累不會累我想應該馬祖會給你無比的一個力量讓你面對這樣的一個狀況是 謝謝"},{"start":8989.034,"end":9013.074,"text":"部長我想最近大家一直在討論隨著中東地緣局勢的影響當然國內國際的航空燃油價格大幅的波動民進黨局最近也發布了一個消息針對短期航線燃油附加費從每人7.5美元調漲為45美元長程的調幅更恐怖"},{"start":9013.935,"end":9032.062,"text":"從每人45.5調漲為117美元漲幅高達157%那不少的航空公司也跟著調漲了這個定位的服務費那我想針對這樣的一個機票的一個調整當然這個有兩極化的一個看法有人會說出國的人數會受到影響"},{"start":9035.683,"end":9060.04,"text":"那國旅的部分也會受到一個刺激會成長那部長個人的看法像委員報告我們國旅其實在這兩三年都穩定的在成長當中包含前一陣子我們看到墾丁的這個台灣季的部分也是人山人海那甚至是道路上面我們輸運的壓力也相當的大所以看得出來其實最近幾次的連假國旅的定房率其實都相當的高"},{"start":9060.62,"end":9075.579,"text":"那在交通的運輸的層面我們也是旅創新高啦所以國旅在這幾年都穩定的在上升那確實最近因為油價的這個推升啦會讓這個國際的旅遊來說的話成本會提高那我相信也會有一些國人就會選擇在國內旅行"},{"start":9077.401,"end":9092.881,"text":"因為畢竟國際的航空的油價提高之後整個票價提升他們出國民眾出國的成本也就提高了那民眾大家會去算現在油價整個高漲的狀況底下生活上的經費是不是留在台灣來遊玩會更有效率"},{"start":9094.127,"end":9110.859,"text":"部長那當然因為現在受到這個美伊戰爭的這個衝擊那到底這個戰爭什麼時候會結束 沒人知道那所以我們目前這個調整的一個方案是屬於一個短期的還是會怎麼樣的滾動解套我想這也是很多國人的一個關心的一個議題"},{"start":9112.279,"end":9136.242,"text":"是 報告委員這個油價我們要看它整體的變化那我們今天一直在報告的內容就是說針對公共運輸的部分我們除了提到今年底的整體的支應的預算之外我們也有提到明年的整體的預算所以至少我們的估算跟協助會到明年的116年的年底那這個部分我們正在做整體的估算但是要看行政院這邊它的整體規劃是什麼樣子"},{"start":9137.725,"end":9154.692,"text":"部長回過頭來我們還是要講到一個重點總預算的問題跟財化法的問題我想一樣屏東縣現在目前許多的中大交通建設我們都希望能夠加快來進行剛剛我聽到台中的黃金陽委員說台中現在有幾十條捷運我們羨慕的不得了我們現在連屏東連第一條都還沒有來"},{"start":9160.592,"end":9170.087,"text":"我想這樣子的一個城鄉差距我認為行政院跟交通部真的應該要去加快速度把一些溜度跟廢溜度的差距應該要來"},{"start":9171.772,"end":9193.375,"text":"努力一下啦跟屏東相關的捷運目前是在高雄市政府所提的計畫當中這個部分我們也是全力來配合在行政作業上盡量節省時間那另外我想昨天有一個很重要的新聞這個國民黨的鄭麗文主席跟中國的習近平主席碰完面之後中共也宣布了這個"},{"start":9194.236,"end":9208.932,"text":"一些會台的一些措施其中包含要恢復兩岸的一個直航讓入客重新回到台灣來重遊台灣部長這個對於我們整個國旅市場您的自己的評估是正面的還是一個毒藥"},{"start":9210.113,"end":9229.289,"text":"像委員報告您在說正面跟毒藥就是我早上在媒體朋友在問我的時候我有說過那時常都說他們遞出橄欖汁但是中國是比較特殊的國家時常會把橄欖汁當作棍子在使用那這個是我們非常擔心的那這幾年其實整個國家的發展我們在觀光業的部分已經朝向多元市場的發展"},{"start":9230.35,"end":9250.664,"text":"那這三四年裡面我們觀光的這個國際旅客的人數也不斷在成長當中速度也不算慢一年都有上百萬甚至幾十萬的成長那我會覺得台灣往多元市場發展是相對健康的因為我還是要再強調一次因為對岸在開心的時候遞出來的叫做橄欖枝"},{"start":9251.685,"end":9271.327,"text":"當他不開心的時候那這橄欖枝他會當棍子來使用那對於我們整體的國家的觀光業的發展不是一個健康的方向那不過我們還是歡迎中國的旅客到台灣不過中國提出的政治限制實在是好多因為一方面我們看到他現在說開放福建跟上海"},{"start":9271.767,"end":9292.541,"text":"那表示什麼表示除了福建跟上海其他的地方的他們中國的人民自由行是被限制的也就是說他們的政治上面的前提相當的多他們沒有全面性的一個開放嘛是那所以如果說福建跟上海叫做善意那其他完全沒開放的那十分之九是不是叫做惡意我覺得這個是我們應該要評估一下"},{"start":9292.901,"end":9321.68,"text":"部長這個我還是要提醒你我想這個未來面對這樣的一個兩岸情勢的一個變化變化萬千那尤其到底這個對岸到目前為止對我們還是非常的不友善那個飛鏈機不是我們一般的飛鏈機啦這個軍機啦軍艦在那邊繞我認為這個對我們來講都是要列入一個到時候邊境的一個管制人中的一個考量部長我想我們省省面對好那兩位請回謝謝"},{"start":9323.522,"end":9342.439,"text":"部長那我想前幾天我們也有特別提到這個退伍會旗下新興跟大南客運的電動公車有紅色供應鏈的一個問題那我這邊也要特別點到我們陶基陶基部長目前陶基第三航廈的進度做到哪裡了"},{"start":9344.691,"end":9359.405,"text":"細部設計正在進行當中已經到了細部設計進行那你們有察覺到我們的創意能源他們參與的標案裡面也有針對這樣的一個電動公車有一個大陸的紅色工業的問題嗎部長有注意到嗎"},{"start":9361.207,"end":9379.115,"text":"委員報告我們契約裡面其實都寫得相當清楚禁止使用中國的資通訊的產品那未來我們也會嚴格的來審核跟審查檢視它裡面到底有沒有中國的資通訊產品如果有的話就代表沒有依據我們的合約在走我們會不讓這件事情發生"},{"start":9380.014,"end":9401.383,"text":"部長我想這個陶基嘛 范總總經理你們的審查過程裡面有沒有問題你們說這個晶片是台灣製造但是而且有第三方的背書但是先被發現這個晶片確實是中國產製的你們有發現這個狀況嗎跟委員報告跟委員報告我們目前的旅客運輸系統"},{"start":9403.791,"end":9428.005,"text":"現階段的作業是在細部設計當中還沒有進入到執行所以委員提示的這個問題我們上週也得到這個訊息我們在上週五除了部長已經剛剛提到契約本身就有規定以外上週五在特別發函要求廠商確實依照契約的規範來執行我們也要求我們的顧問跟監照要確實把關來嚴格審查"},{"start":9432.049,"end":9445.806,"text":"我想第三行下是這個很多國人的一個期待也是陶磯也是我們的門面啦官方的門面部長我想交通部也應該要負起這個責任是 沒辦法陶磯就要往北部啦我是覺得這樣啦好我們一定要嚴格來檢視這個問題嚴格把關不會讓這樣的事情發生"},{"start":9449.11,"end":9473.554,"text":"好 那我想最後一個問題我還是要特別提到這個要請部長幫忙上個禮拜我特別針對這個機車考照的部分有邀集我們交通部相關的同仁來開會討論那果不其然引起了這個全國很多這個縣市相親的一個熱議的一個對立的一個討論那我想剛剛包含我們許多委員也有提到部長確實現在這個要上網登錄這個機車考照"},{"start":9478.655,"end":9500.085,"text":"比搶演唱會的門票還困難報告委員您有跟我提示過這件事啦那我也有關注到說確實我們在這兩年的這個提供的名額有下降那委員跟我提醒完之後我們有請這個公路局來做這方面的研議我們目前的規劃是每一天要增加10%左右的這個報名的名額這是第一點"},{"start":9500.925,"end":9519.091,"text":"那第二點針對尤其是屏東確實我們有看到有一些區域他的這個可以報名跟考試的這個額度確實是落差蠻大的尤其是在屏東的部分那我們公路局這邊也有做出一個計畫針對屏東的部分看怎麼樣協助讓他這個報考的名額可以提升那第三點就是針對過去在"},{"start":9521.413,"end":9539.026,"text":"預約報考的過程當中確實有一些缺考的一個狀況就是說實際有倒考的只有75%那我們也做過檢討在1月份有做過檢討到現在已經把倒考率提升到97%也就是說浪費的名額也減少所以這三個方向我們希望能夠解決民眾所關心的這個議題考照的一套"},{"start":9539.855,"end":9551.909,"text":"我想我也有特別提出當天有特別提出這三項的一個要求那我想我也希望我們交通部從善如流第一個增加每日機車考照的名額上限因為我們目前屏東有33個鄉鎮"},{"start":9554.434,"end":9575.069,"text":"有山地有原住民地區有平地也有離島目前只有恆春跟屏東兩個考照一個禮拜不到300個名額你給這個中培是多少年輕人他怎麼辦他不可能總是無照上路啊我們不可能叫他違規啊但是因為沒辦法趕快去考照所以我認為這要加快速度第二個針對這個監禮站當然"},{"start":9576.91,"end":9596.164,"text":"有些人會講說我們有一些民間的教訓場也可以考但問題是對很多鄉親來講他們還是信賴我們的建立這樣的一個考照系統所以能不能強化你們那個預約系統的增加後補預約功能那這一點那天我有跟你們同仁討論我們要主動積極一點啊不能說人不來課這個命令浪費掉我認為這個是不負責任的做法"},{"start":9599.867,"end":9621.599,"text":"你這個A不能考你總是在通知B通知C嘛把硬考慮可以再提高一點嘛要把名額浪費掉那第三個在還沒有整個增加名額能夠大幅提升的狀況之下能不能增加下鄉考照的一個頻率有些鄉鎮已經有在run了嘛部長這部分能不能再增加能不能給我們一個正面的答覆"},{"start":9623.062,"end":9644.457,"text":"報告委員 下鄉的部分我們會來規劃尤其我剛剛有提到屏東的部分確實落差蠻大的所以我們針對屏東的部分會來特別做處理跟協助那天我開完協調會之後我們的鄉親公號他們光是做因為沒有要去考照 早上5點要出門來到屏東營考你看因為距離很遠對 沒有錯部長 要麻煩你正視這個問題一下好 謝謝 謝謝委員"},{"start":9649.09,"end":9653.773,"text":"好 我們感謝徐副委員好 感謝部長好 我們休息十分鐘"},{"start":9676.638,"end":9679.821,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":9691.903,"end":9708.387,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":9718.092,"end":9729.855,"text":"謝謝大家。"},{"start":9760.711,"end":9761.292,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":9764.394,"end":9775.595,"text":"加油加油加油"},{"start":9787.756,"end":9805.302,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":9823.012,"end":9830.674,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":9854.07,"end":9865.981,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":9877.869,"end":9877.889,"text":"蝦仁"},{"start":9893.173,"end":9894.535,"text":"鸡蛋"},{"start":10296.74,"end":10303.522,"text":"好請就座那我們繼續開會接下來我們邀請何欣淳委員發言好謝謝最認真最英俊的趙偉"},{"start":10317.383,"end":10322.285,"text":"我們請最認真也最英俊的交通部部長好 我們請陳部長部長好 部長我看到你昨天有背著一個儀器然後去跟著白沙屯馬祖走路對不對是 那個是行動氣象儀行動氣象儀就是氣象軍啦我們氣象署說那個叫氣象軍那為什麼會特地背著那個去走"},{"start":10345.886,"end":10374.162,"text":"報告委員因為我們這次白沙屯媽祖跟著他走的人四十幾萬人那四十到六十萬人這麼多的人那我們希望說能夠提供每一分鐘最新的就是走的過程當中地面上面的濕度溫度跟他目前的曝曬指數就是說紫外線曬的指數對對對我們希望每一分鐘提供給所有的信徒那他們看到這個之後呢他們就知道什麼時候應該要想辦法避暑那什麼時候有可能會下雨這個部分我們也都會提供資料"},{"start":10374.502,"end":10396.04,"text":"所以是透過你身上背的那個行動氣象儀能夠得到這些我相信現在的科技包括AI包括數位包括這些相關的系統整合所有這個行動的氣象儀但是透過你背的那一個載具之外是我們沿途都有相關的這個行動車輛嗎沒有另外用車還是有建制"},{"start":10401.496,"end":10425.143,"text":"他目前就是透過這個可能有SIM卡之類的通訊的機制從那個機器會直接傳送出來那你今天沒有背著他跟著白沙屯媽祖走那現在跟著白沙屯媽祖走的這些46萬的信眾們那他又如何得知是 報告委員因為我們的氣象署的同仁真的大家很辛苦我昨天會下去是因為他們會全程跟著走"},{"start":10425.983,"end":10449.421,"text":"對 我就是要你講出這一句話我們是不是先給他們鼓掌一下好不好謝謝 真的這些同仁真的好辛苦 每一個都曬得非常的黑不過我相信白沙屯媽祖會保佑他們的因為他們有這份心而且我們行政單位可以這麼貼心的能夠提供這個措施這是今年第一次嗎 還是往年都有"},{"start":10450.154,"end":10464.535,"text":"往年我們是沿途來做氣象的報告跟報導但我們為了更貼近真正大家的體感的溫度跟感受所以我們今年是第一次用行動氣象儀跟著大家走好我也希望未來我們相關的其他單位能夠也能夠"},{"start":10465.757,"end":10486.739,"text":"第一個跟得上這個民眾的日常跟得上民眾的這個生活那能夠的透過這樣子的一個宗教的大盛事或者是其他領域的大盛事也可以讓大家感受到政府部門是很貼近民意的是很貼近"},{"start":10487.219,"end":10507.466,"text":"民眾的生活的政府部門是很貼心的好不好我覺得我今天一開始舉這個例子是因為我昨天看到新聞報導我是要先給我們交通部陳部長以及我們隨行的所有的人一個大大的鼓勵尤其是氣象署對不對好謝謝那第二個我今天要談"},{"start":10508.989,"end":10520.117,"text":"這個物價的問題因為燃油我看今天早上很多委員都在關心這件事這個4月7號的國籍航空的燃油附加費用有調漲所以國際線的票價有調漲是沒有錯"},{"start":10524,"end":10543.634,"text":"根據這個有調數的資料 燃油是佔了所有這個航空業的營運成本大概兩三成那所以呢 航空業因為油料的飆漲 所以它成本大漲票價飆漲 那一定是轉嫁給旅客那這個呢 當然因為它叫做國際線有很多的國際航空公司不在我們可以這個"},{"start":10545.836,"end":10565.106,"text":"道德勸說也好或是掌控也好也不再是我們的管轄之內但是我還是希望我們自己可以的國籍航空是不是也能夠盡量盡量的緩漲慢慢漲不要一次漲太大不過要先肯定什麼"},{"start":10566.467,"end":10585.421,"text":"為了穩物價我們的油電是動漲的中油吸收了破百億相對的其實就是政府吸收電我們也維持動漲下一頁那跟交通部有關什麼民航的國內票價首度宣布動漲對不對那請問要動到什麼時候預估"},{"start":10588.423,"end":10603.782,"text":"報告委員因為我們這個實際上它的戰爭會發生多久這個不曉得沒人知道那油價會調漲到多久也不曉得那我們目前除了說短期之內拜託中油來做這個油價的平穩那之後再由交通部編列預算給中油"},{"start":10604.202,"end":10627.598,"text":"我們目前的估算是兩個版本一個是估到12月我們大概要花多少錢那另外一個是估到明年的12月也就是2016年的一整年我們都希望能夠做這樣子的控制那目前預算已經有估算出來那不過這個部分還是要看行政院整體的政策我們的裁員要從哪裡來所以你有AB方案一個是估到今年的年底大概預估我們要"},{"start":10628.098,"end":10655.317,"text":"交通部要補助這個國內航線的用油量是多少預算第二個方案是估到明年的12月但是這個部分是叫做國內航線的用油我接著要跟您討論因為我看到現在上一頁我現在已經看到了4月5月大概不管是哪一個航站從桃園台中高雄已經有268班的國際航班"},{"start":10657.919,"end":10665.481,"text":"取消那我揣測啦我當然不知道是不是這個原因啦是不是跟油價飆漲有關係啦我為什麼會提到這個因為這個取消呢牽動到的是整個產業跟市場包括呢這個旅遊觀光等等都有相關性下一頁以台中來講5月就減少了18個航班那這個部分呢18個航班牽涉到的就是什麼"},{"start":10683.848,"end":10691.88,"text":"國內外旅客的觀光、參旅、住宿、運輸、接駁等各產業會受到影響這個部長你知道嗎"},{"start":10692.529,"end":10715.497,"text":"是 這個我們也都有掌握 包含整個全體就是台灣所有的國際機場 它的航班的變化狀況還有台中機場的變化狀況 我們都在評估當中那目前航空公司會優先減班或者是說把班次減少或合併的這個班次通常都是承載率比較低的也就是說訂票率不高的 他才會先做調整"},{"start":10716.437,"end":10722.383,"text":"我們希望是這樣子啦 希望是跟油價沒有關係有跟油價還是有關係 跟油價是有關係所以他會優先選擇把定位率相對低的把它減少那也就是說定位率高的影響就會很高那所以這個消費者的權益的部分我們也會來顧及就是說他該退費或者說該做這個年費的減免等等之類我們會來跟航空公司來溝通"},{"start":10741.583,"end":10765.996,"text":"對 因為就是這個不是只有這個航空減班的問題也不是只有他們航空公司的營運問題這牽涉到的還有旅客的消費者權益問題還包括了我們的觀光 餐旅 住宿 運輸 接駁等各個產業都會受到影響那這個我是希望提早提醒我們交通部我們民航局包括觀光局我們應該要針對這樣子的一個"},{"start":10769.837,"end":10788.046,"text":"趨勢要先提早做準備要有因應的方案因為我們現在對於這個剛剛講的國內的民航機的用油有補助我們也有對公共運輸的這個公共運輸業也有補貼政策那未來我想來下一頁"},{"start":10790.423,"end":10806.572,"text":"剛剛部長提到的有估兩個方案是針對民航機的國內線的一個用油補助可是我們現在看到您對外所講的穩物價的85億再加上整體的政府的穩定物價的代價是1292億那裁員帶籌措那這些85億裡面是交通部給出來的數字"},{"start":10814.677,"end":10832.426,"text":"預估哪些項目到什麼時候用在什麼何處可用到何時就如同我剛剛在問你的民航機的國內線的用油的補貼你有兩個方案一個是預估到今年年底一個方案是預估到明年的年底那你這個85億到底是怎麼估出來的"},{"start":10833.314,"end":10857.349,"text":"向委員報告我們其實有分陸海空運空運的部分大概是40億左右那陸運的部分我們目前估算也差不多接近40億那海運的部分目前估算是差不多6億所以是用整體的海陸空這樣子大概來抓用在何處都只有這個燃油的一個補貼嗎用油的補貼嗎我們都是在用油的補貼沒有錯"},{"start":10858.61,"end":10883.441,"text":"所以沒有其他受到影響的產業的一個評估跟未來可能需要補貼的政策嗎像委員報告我們初步因為戰爭發生到會走到什麼樣的階段我們不曉得所以我們目前的估算是針對公共運輸的部分我們先做公共運輸的規劃那其他的部分我們會預先來看如果有可能會發生比較長期的影響我們會來預作規劃我就先提一個例子來下一頁"},{"start":10884.682,"end":10894.316,"text":"針對公共運輸 你剛剛講 沒錯 你們現在針對公共運輸來來估預算那所以呢 行政院已經說 宣布動長但是呢 來剛剛"},{"start":10897.594,"end":10922.451,"text":"部長有提到 我們現在因為國外旅遊 燃油的成本高所以國外旅遊的團價 票價 成本高 很貴所以這應該引導做國旅所以我們現在4月份 政府有開始補助2026國旅補助 最高領3200所以你又鼓勵大家來國旅 但是國旅會牽涉到一個什麼問題公共運輸 你有補助了 但是遊覽車勒"},{"start":10924.895,"end":10941.505,"text":"客車咧那他們同樣的油料支出就大成本也會提高那他成本提高團費就會提高那你的補助3200會不會變相的也是在提高團費你有沒有想到這樣子的一個循環的一個加成的作用"},{"start":10942.408,"end":10961.83,"text":"報告委員謝謝你的提醒這個我們會來注意跟思考就是說這個補助到底有沒有真正的落實到讓民眾提高他的意願那真正的讓他這個消費的成本降低這個我們會來思考那不過這個國旅的補助目前因為總預算還沒過所以我們很希望4月可以起跑目前看起來是沒有辦法"},{"start":10962.23,"end":10972.193,"text":"目前總預算還沒過啦 希望可以趕快過趕快起跑啦但是我另外一個希望提醒你的是什麼剛剛那個遊覽車的 油料的成本增加那未來有沒有可能為了平穩物價平穩這個團 國旅的團價而有所謂的補貼油料政策跟未來的預算編列來補助他們這個是剛剛部長好像在"},{"start":10988.317,"end":11011.632,"text":"回答其他委員的時候有提到類似的說法向委員報告目前我們先針對基本民行的這個公共運輸的部分這是第一波那如果真的是有比較長期的影響那第二波委員在建議的這個我們會納入考量來第二波我就會開始提醒你我們現在民眾的生活裡面只要跟油有關係的因為這一次的油料成本提高"},{"start":11012.552,"end":11038.885,"text":"跟著物價會可能跟著提高的民眾生活中的網購 就是物流國旅 外送 貨運 產業相關的貨運我剛剛講的遊覽車 計程車等等這個呢 各個工協會也因為成本考量一定會跟交通部來報所有的收費的調漲計畫那這個呢 基於穩物價安民心未來第二波是否也能納入這個補貼的考量跟"},{"start":11041.306,"end":11055.817,"text":"估預算然後呢拍判定案來做這個穩物價的一個措施我是提供給部長來做這樣子的提醒跟建議啦好不好這些我們都會納入討論是好不好我們謝謝美麗的何委員謝謝你祝你心想事成"},{"start":11071.534,"end":11075.436,"text":"好接下來我們邀請許智傑委員發言謝謝我們帥氣的召委我們請部長請陳部長還有民航局民航局何局長"},{"start":11098.467,"end":11114.93,"text":"委員好謝謝應該部長跟局長也要加帥氣跟美麗謝謝好 謝謝其實這一次的我想中東的狀況大家都很難估計也希望說我們"},{"start":11116.092,"end":11134.025,"text":"就是不管是油還是這些票價問題交通部能夠盡量協助其他的我想該進步還是要進步我想謝謝我們民航局事實上也一直都很辛苦在我們高雄在努力"},{"start":11135.206,"end":11159.794,"text":"不過就是說我們整體的案件還是要注意之前那個虎航掌鍋事件 這個部長應該知道吧是 知道 有看到新聞那這個案件呢 我們從兩個角度來看一個就是機場 那個航空公司他們當然會處理就是說將來列入黑名單的部分這個是必要的一個動作"},{"start":11160.902,"end":11189.108,"text":"但是我們在想說整個飛航安全是不是應該一併做考量所以關於黑名單的問題現在是只有各個航空公司自己的黑名單還是我們民航局會有一個整體的思考像委員報告目前看起來航空公司他們會做自己的考量包含危險的客人或者是配合度比較低的客人會做限制搭船的部分目前民航局是沒有做這方面的限制"},{"start":11189.605,"end":11201.902,"text":"我現在有個具體建議事實上我們銀行局跟交通部可以做一個思考就是說在銀行的徵信大家都知道信用不好的會有一個聯合徵信中心"},{"start":11203.803,"end":11229.447,"text":"那這個信用不好的人事實上你今天在機場發生一個這個尤其是飛機上發生這個斬鍋事件一來就是要保護我們的飛行人員以及服務人員的安全之外另外就是會影響到顧客的品質所以就是說這個只要發生一件有可能你在今天坐這艘飛機的顧客心情都不太好"},{"start":11230.999,"end":11248.766,"text":"所以類似這樣子一個惡意打人的事件我覺得這個是在飛機上是非常嚴重的事那是不是我們從公部門的角度不只是航空公司個別的管理就是在整個民航的管理方面是不是有個不一樣的思考"},{"start":11249.526,"end":11273.545,"text":"向委員報告目前我們的民用航空法裡面其實有相關的罰則如果真的發生相關的事件那民航警局他們都會依法來處理那該處罰都會處罰所以我是這樣建議但是委員在建議的就是說有沒有可能航空公司跟民航局的所屬的一些航空工廠站也好大家來做協調這個我們後續來做討論就是說我今天"},{"start":11278.138,"end":11295.574,"text":"銀行的信用不好的聯證中心他都會互相可以去查閱然後當然銀行你要不要貸款給這個信用不好的人銀行自己要負責但是我至少查得到說這個人曾經在其他的銀行信用不好"},{"start":11296.928,"end":11321.4,"text":"那我的黑名單如果有一個類似聯合處理中心的話就是說我今天不管在虎航不管在華航任何航空公司發生這一種事件除了你個別航空公司把它定為黑名單之外是不是有一個聯合中心可以讓我查得到那當然你航空公司要不要讓它屬於黑名單的部分要不要讓它搭乘的部分航空公司自己會決定嘛"},{"start":11322.165,"end":11342.766,"text":"那我們是不是多一個這樣子的機制可以讓航空公司多一個參考那避免就是這一種人會更多這個對他會有嚇阻作用啦那我想不管是機上的安全跟乘客的品質這個是整體可以做一個思考的是不是交通部跟民航局可以做一個這樣子的思考"},{"start":11343.194,"end":11361.729,"text":"是謝謝委員您在關心的這個方向很有建設性也很好那我所知道是華航公司現在整個集團他們其實是聯合通報的就是我請高董來說一下華航集團所有的航空公司大家其實是聯合在一起通報的"},{"start":11362.931,"end":11375.104,"text":"對於這種類似在飛機上面會造成我們困擾的我們叫做不再提供服務的旅客那這名單我們集團裡面我們是所以就是華航華信"},{"start":11377.646,"end":11392.288,"text":"這三家跟其他航空公司就沒臉嘛對不對那有沒有機會民航局就是我們就是以民航的角度不是以單一航空公司的角度啦是不是可以做一個這樣一個整體的思考"},{"start":11393.136,"end":11414.829,"text":"跟維園報告確實如果是從在機上服務避免這些旅客有影響那當然有一個黑名單的制度就是說看起來是一個可行方向不過因為我想這個黑名單的制度如果擴及到所有的航空公司都一樣的話那涉及的就是我們台灣也是海島其實到有些地方一定要靠航空運輸"},{"start":11415.669,"end":11443.795,"text":"所以我想這個問題其實可能要從幾個面向再去思考那容我們後面我們再找學者專家然後來進一步思考我的意思是這樣局長你可以思考一下我不是說他全部都列為共同的黑名單不是啦就是剛剛我講為什麼聯合徵信中心會說這個人就信用不好信用不好是我查得到但是呢他航空公司那個銀行要不要借錢給他銀行自己做決定嘛"},{"start":11445.281,"end":11471.471,"text":"那航空公司說他曾經在其他航空公司也曾經打人的曾經這種表現不好的我就做一個例子的嘛那你今天航空公司彼此可以查得到嘛那你要不要把他列為黑名單航空公司有時候會自己去斟酌嘛甚至他要剔除黑名單要什麼方式以後要怎麼承諾要怎麼樣表現這個是航空公司跟他個別的事情那也就是說黑名單"},{"start":11472.825,"end":11497.875,"text":"是航空公司自己跟個人的事但是我有一個聯合的處理中心就是說我會記錄曾經在飛機上尤其是打過人這個算是嚴重的事件我要把它記錄下來那我在雖然他在其他航空公司在虎航打過人但是我今天是長榮航空也可以知道他曾經這一個人就是在虎航打過人類似這樣子的選擇他們會自己最後去做決定"},{"start":11499.21,"end":11515.679,"text":"那這只是一個參考我相信這個參考應該對於對於要求對於要求在飛機上再發生這種重複事件的案例就可以少很多 它會怕啦不然它拍了 雖然不能坐飛機對它來說也損失很大謝謝委員您的這個建議我們會來做參考也會來做討論這個再麻煩斟酌一下那再來就是這個行動電源行動電源我們現在4月1號有新制"},{"start":11526.385,"end":11550.186,"text":"那就是說將來行動電源可以帶上機場的就帶上飛機的就兩個嘛那禁止充電嘛那這個其實我們現在現在是宣導階段還是處罰階段剛剛委員報告已經4月8號開始直施了然後基本上就是如果有違反規定的話就依照民用航空法來執行"},{"start":11552.636,"end":11577.742,"text":"這個其實看起來是小事卻是大事啦你看韓國釜山航空曾經因為一顆行動電池造成整個飛機燒起來所以這是看起來是很小的事但是實際這影響飛案也很大所以我是建議就是說現在人民可能現在都不見得普遍有這個觀念所以希望民防局可以再多宣導"},{"start":11578.493,"end":11603.427,"text":"好 謝謝委員我們在各航空公站還有航空公司包含觀光署這邊我們都有全部在實施前就有一個宣導期甚至將來有沒有可能像韓國這麼嚴格這個也都是考量的範圍是 這個我們會持續這個非常很重要最後一個我簡單再問一下就是說謝謝我們民航局就是說我高雄現在安檢的部分有三條線嘛"},{"start":11604.508,"end":11624.169,"text":"那現在民航局打算四條先這個先謝謝部長跟局長這部分讓我們高雄將來可以更快速但是還有一個越快速的像那個美國那個Clear Plus他們這些它是年費蠻好玩的年費一年大概六千台幣"},{"start":11626.016,"end":11641.217,"text":"速度就快很多他就是照臉你所有的證件之前就先審核通過然後呢你通過之後你就是走過去臉一照你就可以快速通關了那這個部分台灣現在還沒有做是不是有這個規劃可以儘快"},{"start":11645.558,"end":11667.217,"text":"我想跟委員報告確實如果有這樣的一個通關快速的作業快速的通道然後讓我們一些安檢作業不用人工的去做處理是比較快的那基本上這個部分我們松山機場這個部分已經有跟這個航空公司還有這個建制的服務商其實有做一個一個招標案"},{"start":11667.657,"end":11689.799,"text":"那目前也剛好大概建置好可是在測試期間那對於整個系統因為高雄也有它的特性還有包含它的空間所以基本上我們也會請高雄來研究然後也會參考松山機場的案例所以現在松山機場已經招標出去了對 它基本上是已經出去了可是它是真的我聽到的是桃園機場"},{"start":11691.823,"end":11708.61,"text":"我們桃園機場也在配合T3航廈 未來也會建置所以 高雄的部分也會在研議當中所以松山現在是標出去了桃園機場現在在研議不是 我們T3就會做了現在T3就會做了那大概什麼時候開始使用"},{"start":11709.541,"end":11726.836,"text":"我們就是配合T3的營運來一起使用所以還要多久我們明年來完工明年T3是明年完工然後會經過營運準備以後來進入營運期那是不是高雄一起思考"},{"start":11728.396,"end":11744.473,"text":"高雄我們也會在未來的新航廈的部分來做規劃設計要等到新航廈那很久短期間的就是我們剛剛講就是說松山機場有先做他有他的一個條件那高雄機場我們也會同步來我希望不要等到新航廈啦"},{"start":11746.388,"end":11762.422,"text":"先規劃了因為這個真的是夠嘛又快速又方便新航廈一定會納入啦但是現在短期之間我們來討論一下看怎麼讓他可以先加速啦好不好等到新航廈我等不及希望能加速好 謝謝好 非常感謝許智傑委員好 接下來我們邀請邱若驊委員發言"},{"start":11780.222,"end":11783.267,"text":"好 謝謝主席 主席請邀請交通部陳部長 我們請陳部長"},{"start":11790.885,"end":11816.878,"text":"委員好 部長好 部長就今天的專題和部長討論那這一次的中東歧視帶動國際油價的飆升那這不只是經濟的議題它也同時涉及到能源能源的供應還有運輸的穩定那我有看到國發會在4月13號的報告指出政府已經啟動專案的會議那交通部身為運輸的主管機關針對海空運的落道所增加的燃料成本還有航運時間有沒有具體的來"},{"start":11819.601,"end":11836.891,"text":"來建立緊急航權的調度機制向委員報告目前我們在海空運的部分都有掌握那海運的部分其實目前在進口的這個貨櫃的這個成本的成長的幅度並不高在出口的部分可能有比較高那這個部分其實是由業者他們去做吸收"},{"start":11837.611,"end":11863.494,"text":"那空運的部分我們會透過燃油附加費的部分來做這個國際航線的這個調度上面的協助那國內的部分我們目前是動漲的那油價的部分我們交通部有拜託這個中油公司幫我們把這個國內航空的這個油價從44塊條降到28塊那這個差額的部分目前是由中油先吸收但之後交通部會編列公務預算來"},{"start":11863.834,"end":11864.374,"text":"空中航線沒什麼問題"},{"start":11883.631,"end":11905.085,"text":"跟委員報告因為這個中油給我們的國際燃油跟國內線的燃油它是每個月的1號會公佈那基本上這個月的油價就是我們會照這個標準去處理那如果是在國際線的燃油附加費的部分因為它已經先公告了所以我們原本就有一個燃油附加"},{"start":11905.305,"end":11926.921,"text":"局長因為您提到這邊提到的是附加費那這邊我待會也和您討論那部長我看到這次的報告有說國內的公油是正常的然後沒有中斷也穩定那報告也有提到其他國家像是越南菲律賓已經開始限制加油了嘛那我國目前法定的存油量是標榜140天那在這樣封鎖的情況下那交通部有沒有針對這樣大眾運輸然後還有運輸的服務系統有一個優先配給的順序"},{"start":11932.024,"end":11955.878,"text":"跟委員報告因為中油給我們的訊息目前的油量都還是足夠啦那這個部分我們沒有做相對的配給的作為因為目前國家看起來的油量剛剛中油董事長也有報告大概到6月7月目前正在找7月的油那也找的差不多了那所以最近這幾個月其實這個壓力沒有那麼大不過委員在提醒的部分我們會先預作準備跟討論那是不是"},{"start":11956.358,"end":11979.919,"text":"董事長剛剛有提到是到7月嘛那現在的955線汽油是維持在33.9這個禮拜那這個是政府調降50%貨物稅然後才有這個數字沒有錯吧這是其中一個原因是其中一個原因那減增50%的貨物稅預計會導致國庫每個月短縮數10億那你交通部跟中油這邊經濟部這邊有沒有精算過如果封鎖超過三個月的話那這樣子我們的庫存可以撐多久"},{"start":11981.525,"end":11988.376,"text":"我想這個沒有問題 在量的部分 中央公司都已經有掌握可以從其他的來源 董事長也請您說明是在什麼樣的前提之下呢"},{"start":11989.311,"end":12014.743,"text":"原油的部分的進口可以除了中東以外還有其他的油源可以從其他地方來找這個替代的油源譬如說像非洲譬如說像美國像澳洲您提到有其他國家啦那其實在111年的時候那時候吳俄戰爭的時候那交通部這邊有提到說要找其他的替代能源那三年過去了交通部這邊目前有沒有其他替代能源"},{"start":12021.672,"end":12038.822,"text":"我想那個整個國際上的油價的一個漲跌確實是對航空也造成影響不過我們都有燃油附加費那至於替代能源的部分國際上現在可行的就是我們所謂的這個航空永續燃油那這個部分的話我們中油跟台塑去年有5900噸"},{"start":12041.724,"end":12069.903,"text":"那今年也會有8000噸那我想全球來講因為可以用的就是我們講的這個航空燃油跟這個永續燃油那局長您這邊是提到航空附加費嗎那現在目前航空的燃油它成本是在航空大約30%到40%這個數字沒有錯吧那現在我們的航空的附加費調整是依據民航局你們核定的機制是隨著新加坡航空的燃油價格去做連動的嗎基本上是根據中油公告的油價"},{"start":12070.883,"end":12094.67,"text":"我們之前看到國際油價在短時間內就暴漲了71%那附加費他調升會直接衝擊到出口然後還有出國的民眾那你們這邊有沒有一個公式調整的公式跟委員報告我們基本上是這樣短程線我們是用國際線就是用一頭油10塊錢美金如果漲10塊美金我們短程線就加2.5美元"},{"start":12096.01,"end":12115.742,"text":"那長程線是加6.5美元所以原本短程線是17.5那因為它4月1號公告的我們換算回來大概是200一桶是203塊所以就要調到45塊直接直接那現在國際形勢的關係嗎那你們有沒有設定一個上限或是有一個緩衝的機制呢"},{"start":12117.063,"end":12141.201,"text":"基本上因為現在的油價已經算是過去以來的最高價那我想未來的油價的趨勢我們也會跟中油保持密切聯繫來做觀察那部長那這邊這一次的報告都是提到就是動漲動漲的部分然後補貼那像針對我們國內的大徐營的運輸大客車計程車還有貨物業有沒有其他的政策性的補助"},{"start":12141.801,"end":12162.679,"text":"向委員報告 針對公共運輸是我們第一波公共運輸的部分我們優先來處理那其他的部分可能到第二波因為戰爭到底發生多久我們不曉得再來油價的影響到底多長的時間我們不曉得那我們第一波會先處理公共運輸就是基本民行的部分那這個部分我們會先做討論那第二波委員剛剛在提醒的這些我們也都會納入討論"},{"start":12164.222,"end":12176.019,"text":"因為我這邊有看到報告裡面都是在講價格然後還有運能這一方面除了票價的動漲吸收油價還有附加費那航空公司接下來有沒有可能面臨減班或是航線的調整"},{"start":12177.353,"end":12202.308,"text":"在國內航線的部分比較沒有這方面的影響因為我們的這個票價那個油價的部分我們有做協助那國際的部分目前看到也是有一些航班確實在做整併他們定位率比較不高的航班跟航線那確實有些航空公司選擇先取消這些航班但整體來說它的影響只有千分之三的航班目前夏季班表看起來只有影響到千分之三所以影響並不大"},{"start":12203.442,"end":12222.999,"text":"我這邊提到航線的問題是因為我也是看到吳俄戰爭那時候附加費它的增加它的級數是好幾個級數這樣子在增加那當時就已經有引發民眾的反彈那這一次的附加費它的計算方式它的漲跌跟連動是不是可以更加透明呢 局長"},{"start":12225.034,"end":12245.653,"text":"我想剛剛我剛講的齁其實就是17.5它大概成長了11個應該是差不多11個級距乘以2.5短程線所以它會變45那另外一個一樣6.5直接乘所以基本上它這個燃油附加費在客運來講因為它是國際線它就是反映那國內線是剛剛講的環長"},{"start":12247.555,"end":12265.265,"text":"所以這個相關的公告航空公司也是公告了以後在7天後生效4月1號公告4月7號生效所以基本上這個機制也是從過去以來應該是從已經很早期大概96年以來97年以來就運作了這樣的機制也經歷了烏俄戰爭的一個高油價"},{"start":12268.146,"end":12292.943,"text":"那當然這一次又比烏鵝戰爭更加的嚴重 超為嚴重可是我們還會持續觀察整個油價剛剛中油所說的這個量足那價到底會在哪裡我們會跟中油這邊再保持密切聯繫這邊最後再請教部長一個問題因為有其他國家他的通膨率已經衝到4.1了嘛那他們也有提出考慮要調降燃料稅 燃料負稅那我們這邊會跟進嗎"},{"start":12295.104,"end":12312.731,"text":"對朝這樣的方向去做研議嗎後續如果朝這個方向如果影響很長遠的話我們針對棄燃費的部分我們會來做討論OK好這邊再向部長了解謝謝主席謝謝我們非常感謝邱樂華委員接下來我們邀請蘇清泉委員發言謝謝主席我請陳部長請陳部長"},{"start":12330.111,"end":12337.656,"text":"我時間都要4加1而已,所以我問你三個問題第一個就是屏東縣因為27876平方公里,你去久了所以台北人都騎摩托車比較多,現在你騎摩托車路口"},{"start":12357.062,"end":12373.028,"text":"只有屏東跟鄉村兩個店在賣嘛,對不對?屏東一天最多五十個名額,鄉村十五個所以一禮拜才有兩百五十個,很不方便,經常在歡迎,年輕人在賣,都要找個個用,否則你不知道這個事情"},{"start":12380.57,"end":12400.737,"text":"報告委員這段時間確實針對這個考照的部分大家從上網的這個預約的狀況來看確實最近的提供的量確實不足那尤其屏東我們有特別去關注到這個問題就是說我們希望能夠未來第一我們提高預約的名額讓大家報名比較容易一點才不會像現在那麼強"},{"start":12401.537,"end":12407.481,"text":"第二,如果可以下鄉的話,像委員在講的,鄉村一層、屏東一層,屏東這麼遠,百多公里的長途,我們有機會可以做這個下鄉考照的部分,我們盡量來合作,屏東的鄉親可以更加方便。對啦,現在年輕人在預約,常常抱怨的是,比廟宅演唱會票更難。"},{"start":12427.864,"end":12441.43,"text":"一天五十個實在太誇張了所以短期之內我們會要求監理站他們把這個考照的名額提高百分之十轉播轉購都提高百分之十讓大家比較有利就剛才兩個點了你跟人家說萬一是什麼都給十萬的"},{"start":12445.532,"end":12462.002,"text":"沒有 我先提高10%啦後續我也希望可以讓更多人來參加所以我們會看那個需求的比例譬如說我們剛才前一陣子有人在抱怨說報考率其實低所以造成很多的空額之前的報考率只有75%那我們經過1月份檢討完之後現在報考率已經到97%但是有報名的100個有97個會來扣農會長要存3個過去是農會長25個那太多了啦"},{"start":12474.269,"end":12494.082,"text":"我們現在把報考率提高,總額也提高有你很用心的,你這樣抵達你自己說的出來委員有在關心,我們一定要注意好,要加強啦,讓他們比較方便的啦今天的問題是,你現在70歲到74歲你去大院會給我回答說你要研究研究說,因為你賓東關70歲到75歲有三萬八千"},{"start":12503.695,"end":12509.019,"text":"75歲到4萬多人你現在叫這3萬多人你現在是要做體檢還是要做其他的信箱測驗等等跟委員報告我們現在兩項我們跟日本的制度一模一樣日本也是這樣做70歲到74歲這段我們是做提檢第一提檢第二我們免費提供他們兩小時的課程"},{"start":12532.236,"end":12538.862,"text":"讓他了解新的溝通規則跟新的號誌做什麼藝術因為現在我們的號誌跟標線常常在蓋有些東西他看不到我們要補充一下讓他了解所以這兩項做到我們就可以讓他新的體驗體驗是在哪裡做在醫療院所做還是企業做"},{"start":12548.973,"end":12574.739,"text":"醫療院所或衛生所或是醫療院所 衛生所都可以我做了那些合計的去啊你說有再做一個記憶的說十方水個那是認知測驗在日本也是一樣認知測驗那是75歲才開始做你是比照哪一個國家啊我心中外科醫生我不知道你這到底會不會去認知測驗其實是在測驗公有失智沒有啦在日本也是75歲開始做我們台灣的醫學會我們都有跟他們討論所以你70到70歲有要做"},{"start":12579.441,"end":12589.088,"text":"不用做認知測驗,但是75歲就要做認知測驗啦因為那個失智的風險比較高,我們要先檢查他有失智狀況你有要下森嗎?有要下森嗎?還是一樣可以找屏東市?本來說一個屏東市,一個店,你三萬五要怎麼去?大家叫我去哪裡呢?"},{"start":12597.591,"end":12598.211,"text":"75歲是現行高齡關懷換遭的制度"},{"start":12618.556,"end":12640.266,"text":"那另外針對即將在5月底要實施的這個提前到70歲關懷的這個部分的話原則上就是只有這個體檢跟這個免費這個相關這個講習的部分然後這一塊我現在請各區鑑定所就是按照委員剛剛所提到的部分他所寫的這個人數有多少"},{"start":12640.666,"end":12652.556,"text":"然後在規劃的一個據點 未來的據點會包括就是說我們會有這一個外派啦包括這個就是一些這個就是說高齡者可能比較常聚集的這些相關的 柳州啦 香港啦 鄉村啦你也要有一個店給這裡的老人家不然你經常去鄉村 你不知道鄉村有多遠喔"},{"start":12661.244,"end":12671.321,"text":"據點我們盡量去配合啦讓鄉親們方便委員在關心的就是這個啦保鄉親大家方便這我怎麼做啦你說四月份要有Data嘛要有刮症"},{"start":12674.284,"end":12694.321,"text":"所以這裡再問一回 有在整個 有在做我再補充一點就是比較這個鄉下地區的部分的話 一定會跟相公所做結合這些老人比較 這是高齡 長輩比較常聚會的場所我們就會透過陸老師 然後來做處理主席 我36歲了 我問最後一個問題"},{"start":12700.726,"end":12708.31,"text":"你剛才說我們的原油72%是從波斯灣來我們的液態瓦斯是32%從卡達來那現在那邊都歸零那你說這些液態天然氣現在掉一船來給富人10億喔"},{"start":12718.988,"end":12741.765,"text":"本來我就是不關 要給付全部 現在我們的經濟部門說他掉十倍損啊現在是都去退掉 我都很注意這個呢報告委員 你剛才講的那個油 未到未來 其實我不知道 那不是我報告的所以這個部門是不是 我們中油跟南元素有在這裡 要自己請教嗎我現在要問的就是說 你到底是去退掉"},{"start":12742.794,"end":12768.37,"text":"然後是多多少錢 再來就是說你現在說自己蓋燒你如果沒有蓋燒一L的957可能要40多塊 講這個事情跟委員報告跟那個油的部份就是電池船從哪邊調 跟回答委員就是主要現在是主要從美澳那邊來然後其他還有一些別的地區的那那個油價部分我是不是請中油的那個羅副總回答"},{"start":12769.079,"end":12790.956,"text":"說你蓋二百六十億,三百億,還有這個事情?向委員報告,這個新聞當然是有增加起來啦,但是政府也有在注意這個問題所以有一些專案融資貸款的這個部分,現在政府都在協調這個事情,其實台電跟電郵現在蓋二百六十億、三百億啦,這要怎麼來?剛才保地律說要用公務預算來報"},{"start":12796.881,"end":12800.444,"text":"蘇清泉委員像這個屏東鄉親考照問題看起來很嚴重今天已經連續兩位屏東的立委都針對這一點徐屋口委員跟蘇清泉委員都針對這一點有提出質詢"},{"start":12825.008,"end":12852.699,"text":"應該盡快來處理接下來我們來邀請鄭天才委員發言主席有請部長陳部長委員好部長好我也即將面臨那個考照"},{"start":12854.78,"end":12877.586,"text":"歡迎來考照這個對您絕對會有幫助早就有駕照了還要再考因為距離您上次考照大概已經五十年了快要五十年你才會面臨這個問題那五十年我們的軟體要更新一下但是我每天都還有開車是是是好人身體很健康沒問題今天的議題這個交通部的報告裡面提到這個"},{"start":12881.166,"end":12909.161,"text":"較戰前近一年平均油價公升26元漲幅約19%真的是戰爭很可怕尤其是戰爭的國家我們這麼遠距離伊朗、以色列、中東這麼遠還是受到很大的影響所以戰爭真的是要避免"},{"start":12910.866,"end":12932.205,"text":"這個空運的部分國內航線航空油價為新台幣40.2元每公升上漲了116%這個幅度真的是很大那我們看這個今年的2月1號每公升航空燃油排價國內限20.45"},{"start":12936.616,"end":12942.837,"text":"3月1號2月28號發生這個戰爭這個3月1號就戰爭了21.61現在這個4月份44.2真的是一個需要怎麼樣去協助我們的航空業者當然因為我們的"},{"start":12961.499,"end":12969.31,"text":"相關的這些剛中友有報告我們在經濟委員會也提了很多次了這個我們因為有"},{"start":12972.335,"end":12999.538,"text":"別人來在中東的我們有很早不是今年才開始之前就已經往美國澳洲去買油了所以這個有這樣的一個所以國內的油價都還好就是汽油汽車開的那個都還好那現在就是航空燃油這個所以這個部分我們怎麼樣去協助航空業者"},{"start":13001.702,"end":13029.253,"text":"協助航空業者也就是協助我們的人民大飛機就會不受到影響所以這個部分要請交通部還有民航局以及相關的機關那個機器的協助那我們再看這個偏遠的花蓮這個從台北到花蓮是立龍往返之間"},{"start":13030.134,"end":13043.106,"text":"那台中花蓮是華信高雄花蓮也是華信所以這樣的一個怎麼樣更要他們更需要這個協助啦讓這個航空業者能夠繼續"},{"start":13046.358,"end":13068.61,"text":"繼續飛行 讓民眾人民的票價也不要調高所以這個部分 今年有相關的這些附帶結議不是 一般的結議 臨時提案的結議所以要請交通部 民航局以及相關的機關"},{"start":13070.236,"end":13092.183,"text":"多多多的協助可以嗎我們來做整體的考量時間的關係最後雖然已經問過很多次了還是要謝謝交通部還有台鐵鐵道局提出台鐵宜花東及南迴鐵路"},{"start":13094.009,"end":13117.22,"text":"入段這個設施安全改善計畫今年3月16號行政已經核定了但是這個經費總是怎麼樣能夠循最快的速度因為3月才核定了嘛當然來不及編預算預算都有了"},{"start":13118.468,"end":13142.208,"text":"預算是編在哪裡今年本來就有編列一些預算那這個部分也在進行當中但是就是等這個總預算有過的話我們今年一些先期的工程就可以開始做你在總預算的部分是放在哪裡總預算的部分今年今年我是不是請台鐵跟鐵道局這邊來說好說明一下報委員這個案子是"},{"start":13143.612,"end":13162.74,"text":"今年三月行政院核定對那所以我們的預算在費用上面我們也會用我們的營業基金來先調度來指引那我們預算也照相關的預算法來編列所以也希望委員能夠支持這個案子因為委員一直都很重視能夠總預算通過我們計劃執行才會"},{"start":13166.141,"end":13194.281,"text":"所以你們會先用營業基金這個部分我們自己內部因為鑑於這個案子對安全性的提升很重要我們也會內部先把先期的作業先展開招標作業文件先進行營業基金的部分只可以做先期的作業啦有些行政作業是有辦法做的但實際的工程沒有辦法來大筆的沒辦法做啦等總預算進來之後就有辦法做第一個"},{"start":13195.868,"end":13222.363,"text":"你在書面這樣書面提供好了書面提供時間的關係第一個營業基金絕對可以用這是第一個這個我是老公也知道營業基金一定可以用第二個第二個就是說總預算一百一十五年度的總預算有沒有編列書面提供給我好我們謝謝鄭天才委員謝謝"},{"start":13226.837,"end":13227.778,"text":"主席 麻煩我們的部長請陳部長"},{"start":13253.626,"end":13265.353,"text":"委員好 部長午安 今天雖然是要講的事實上是中東 可是我比較關切的事實上也就是我過去曾經質詢過的一些課題先就要來跟你講一下是說"},{"start":13269.399,"end":13290.614,"text":"這陣子我們大家都也可以看到我們的交通部大安司公布的數據大家可以發現我們微型電動二輪車的數量十年內大概成長了五倍那其中我更關心的是耳哨的傷亡情形那17歲以下的111年佔整體的22%到現在114年已經佔整體的36%了"},{"start":13296.718,"end":13324.754,"text":"它事實上是一直在成長的所以就要問部長是說針對微型電動二輪車的事故防止到底交通部有沒有掌握跟委員報告這個部分確實是數據上看起來它的存在越來越多越來越多的這樣子的車輛大家在使用那第二事故率確實也因為使用的人多它事故率必然也會增加那這個部分其實交通部也都有注意到我們相關對策"},{"start":13327.623,"end":13351.183,"text":"委員在關心的是應該是未來是不是針對這一方面要不要再更加強管理或者是加強宣導的部分那這個部分其實我們有跟這個勞動部也好或者是教育部也好我們都有在討論說未來在這方面要怎麼這樣做教育上面的宣導那管制的部分在這段時間其實這幾年我們也有一定的這個作為我是不是請市長來向您回答我想時間關係我就不請市長"},{"start":13353.945,"end":13373.611,"text":"那因為我覺得更重要 當然你說教育宣導我相信也會去做 可是那個力道到底多強因為隨著這個上升 當然你剛剛講是說因為使用的人更多 可是我也要問就是針對改裝檢驗的規範 左邊是我打關鍵字你就看到一大堆的影片 隨便"},{"start":13376.359,"end":13405.212,"text":"點選就是教你如何怎麼改裝讓速度調掉了那右邊是記者去問公務局的同仁他說目前確實缺乏的就是召回臨檢的規範那我查到案規則過去有領牌的輕型機車過去就是50cc可是衛星電動二輪車過去也是期待是取代我們的50cc那可是我們卻對於這種類似的定位的一個微電車都沒有任何"},{"start":13405.911,"end":13429.602,"text":"的幾個機制就到底為什麼去獨露這個部分那有什麼考量嗎向委員報告微型二輪電動車的這個檢驗基準已經有防篡改速限的這個要求速限裝置的要求不能去改我們這個要求那未來為什麼一堆都是在叫你怎麼改那我覺得在路面上跑的應該也蠻多是改裝的"},{"start":13430.531,"end":13436.593,"text":"像委員報告我們會跟警方來聯合來做稽查那這個部分我們會加強來稽查跟查核"},{"start":13438.576,"end":13465.406,"text":"所以事實上國外就有一些經驗事實上是可以參考了ETSC的建議就是我們的機動車輛最好事實上是到16歲那過去我們自己在民間也倡議為什麼因為我們看到15到17是商網最高的時間點那如果事實上我們現在是14歲那就勢必是同意嘛就面對到那如果事實上是修改到16歲比照國外的話那個商網才不會事實上是坐任他"},{"start":13465.826,"end":13490.254,"text":"一直事實上是這麼高尤其他事實上是對青少年殺傷力事實上特別高甚至應該建立考訓跟我們的檢驗機制交通部是不是可以應該更積極地重新去檢視這個管理政策是什麼而不是等到問題發生了我們再來亡羊補牢我覺得有時候事實上是來不及的啦所以我希望交通部這個不知道是不是可以"},{"start":13493.372,"end":13496.435,"text":"給個時間點什麼時候可以去研議這個配套的措施"},{"start":13498.975,"end":13520.355,"text":"向委員報告目前微型電動二輪車的部分我們限制是在14歲可是我講15到17是傷亡最高的所以委員的建議是希望15到17當然第一個事實上是可以提高然後另外一個是我剛剛講配套的措施一定要做因為畢竟我們還有個17歲15到17最高可是你如果現在16可是我們還是有個17歲"},{"start":13522.917,"end":13549.863,"text":"我們青少年實在是經不起這樣的折損因為我們已經面對到少子化去年生10萬9那我們每個孩子都不能少的狀態底下委員的建議我們會納入討論您的建議是16歲希望界限在16歲還有我剛剛講的這些配套是不是可以考慮一個月內可不可以給我相關的這個報告那再來也就是個人行動器具這也是我過去質詢過的也同樣有這樣的問題我知道交通部現在很謹慎"},{"start":13551.903,"end":13578.303,"text":"希望也可以盡善盡美那也請了運營所來研究可是除了找地方跟廠商來開會可是去年7月31號開完會結束之後很多廠商都來問我說到底有沒有後續部長難道地方繼續不訂定這些行動器具的使用者每天都要面臨到違法然後被裁罰的風險嗎所以部長目前的整個交通部規劃是什麼從今年7月31號開完會之後就沒有下文了"},{"start":13582.446,"end":13600.111,"text":"報告委員我們在今年的3月13號已經有提供一個指引給各個地方政府了在今年的3月13號那你對地方的指引他如果不照做呢因為本來就是各地方要他們去訂規格那什麼叫做行動個人行動報告委員這是地方的權責"},{"start":13601.531,"end":13613.76,"text":"地方的權責那中央對於地方的權責到底有多少的強制性我們已經出了指引我們也會希望他趕快來做但是我們能不能很強制他去怎麼做這個要看各個地方他們自己的判斷"},{"start":13614.724,"end":13634.229,"text":"那你的報案考核是不是可以列入為一個考量的一個點所以對於新興運動器具的話我覺得希望你們能夠針對微型電動二輪車一個月內給我研究一個報告然後就是我覺得把個人行動器具的會議紀錄資料是不是可以提供這個沒有問題"},{"start":13635.089,"end":13650.857,"text":"那最後呢我想問一個因為今天報紙上整個大阪都在登的我從一進來就質詢到今天我都還在關心的也就是高齡駕駛這一塊我們記者會開了然後去年發生事情了我在開完記者會隔天"},{"start":13651.457,"end":13668.625,"text":"可是下一週就發生事情 在三峽時間很不幸那如果沒有動作快一點的話 那當然我就很擔心對 沒有錯 江部也很快就回應了就是要能夠70歲以下 可是我一直認為他不是年齡有沒有基於科學基礎的一個專業判斷一定要來讓他"},{"start":13672.166,"end":13694.861,"text":"能夠去做一些認知的測驗而不是說我定一個70歲然後只要體檢跟安全教育今天年齡真的不是一個問題最大的事實上是身體的能力到底如何而且我也希望能夠便民所以我不知道是不是可否這個部分我們有跟醫學會來做很專業的這個不是完全沒有依據這是絕對有依據的所以在日本也是70歲的患兆他們並沒有做認知測驗"},{"start":13697.625,"end":13723.073,"text":"我認為今天台灣事實上甚至失智都有往下的那個趨勢的時候我建議是不是可以找臨床心理師跟職能治療師來一起協助做認知判斷我們其實跟台灣的所有的這方面的醫學專家的認知功能的判斷的專家我們都有討論過所以他們討論完的結論是希望界限是放在75歲那是風險比較高但70到75中間這一段目前看起來風險沒有這麼高"},{"start":13724.273,"end":13737.463,"text":"不過我覺得地方政府有的已經開始做表示這事實上是有需要的我們不能再等下一件事發生的時候他們如果地方政府願意做我們相當歡迎對 那我覺得應該你這邊是不是應該也要想好 謝謝委員您剛剛在說的是要依據專業我們有專業的判斷跟討論好 請上去非常感謝接下來我們邀請楊瓊英委員"},{"start":13756.517,"end":13766.715,"text":"謝謝主席 陽泉發言 邀請交通部請陳部長委員好"},{"start":13768.394,"end":13785.987,"text":"我想大家都針對於這個戰爭的議題能源的樣態所以大家會緊張在整個成本的上升那但是對於民生的議題方面呢大家都非常的關心尤其要怎麼樣協助民眾在這一段時間能夠"},{"start":13787.808,"end":13814.544,"text":"安穩的度過那尤其是通膨的問題等政府密切需要好好的去應對那同時也關心整個的進程那同時我們要討論的今天本期要跟您討論的就是在這個票價的問題當然很多的同仁也關心不管是陸海空大家希望能夠平穩這個價格那我就特別針對於這個高鐵的部分"},{"start":13817.546,"end":13832.647,"text":"因為高鐵我們交通部每一年依據合約及最新的物價檢討高鐵的基本匯率在今年我們看到已經達到調漲的門檻匯率可由現在每人每公里的4.55億元"},{"start":13834.69,"end":13857.957,"text":"可以調升到4.728元那換句話說從台北到左營它的上限是可以調到1780元到目前為止呢我們是1490元換句話說增加是將近兩成290元那麼我們也看到交通部表示目前沒有調漲的這個時程"},{"start":13860.618,"end":13887.295,"text":"那但是在制度方面他已經有調漲的這個你們的合約裡面已經有調漲的這個條件所以民眾還是會緊張在這樣的情況之下呢我們看到高鐵現在的通勤月票是以30日為計算早期月票是以這個一個月20天那也因為有人反映說6日或許也有人上班"},{"start":13887.955,"end":13906.325,"text":"所以他會才從20天來調整現在的這個制度呢是30天的這個計量計價沒有去做分區實際使用的這個頻率那對於一般平日通勤為主的這個旅客呢他或許會產生這個負擔跟使用不對稱的這個樣態每一個人有每一個的這個面向"},{"start":13913.869,"end":13915.67,"text":"那所以在這種情況之下未來如果當然目前是不漲但是你的基本條件它是足夠的我們不知道戰爭的樣態是怎麼樣所以民眾他已經看到這個問題所以我們來做一個討論也就是在未來的票價"},{"start":13931.818,"end":13952.597,"text":"方面通勤組的負擔呢要怎麼樣去協助他們那使用者互惠這個是很公道的所以有人提出以新增分級回溯票的這個方式比如說10趟的20趟的40趟的這樣的一個基準因為10趟現在他是以82則20趟是以74則"},{"start":13955.66,"end":13969.752,"text":"那如果在40趟有增加這樣的一個取向的話呢那是不是40趟以六五折做平均值這樣可以融合20日跟30日也就換句話說10趟跟20趟的這個綜合點"},{"start":13973.735,"end":14003.095,"text":"是不是這樣子可以達到一個比較均衡點均衡點如果是以40趟的六五折的的樣態來計算是17550元那這樣子的樣態有人提出那我們也希望就是說交通部是主主機關單位合約是你們簽的那這樣的一個情況是不是有討論的一個方向讓使用者互惠達到一個更有效能的一個公平性"},{"start":14005.036,"end":14032.177,"text":"像委員報告感謝您在關心這個通勤組大家的這個需求那很多的客戶確實很多的旅客確實有很多的這個建議跟想法剛剛委員也講得很清楚這些我們都納入討論不過也跟委員報告我們目前的機制上面其實有好多種組合已經有好多種組合22天六七折22天六七折您剛剛在提的20天沒有但我們現在是22天六七折然後還有30天四九折的這個定期票"},{"start":14033.915,"end":14047.914,"text":"這個是一種然後還有回溯票的部分是60天8次92折還有30天的回溯票10次82折所以其實我們的那個彈性相當的大這是本席剛才所說的現在執行30日10趟是82折嘛"},{"start":14048.875,"end":14071.503,"text":"這個剛才本席已經告訴你很清楚也就是說如果以中間值來計算40趟20日40趟的這樣子的一個方式他是等於是六五折這個均衡所以本席提出選民民眾通勤族他們的建議我也希望納入在你們的這個討論的項目之內我們請高鐵公司來檢討"},{"start":14073.124,"end":14089.154,"text":"對對謝謝你一個目標也就是希望能夠在一個公平性上面可以達到均衡一點我想這樣子在消費者他尤其通信組我們一定要協助他嘛好不好你請他們來研討好謝謝那接下來本席要請教"},{"start":14090.655,"end":14116.966,"text":"因為我們一直關心也就是在關心的這個本席之前跟你討論過非法的旅館的這個部分那你們在4月12號也公布了2026年第一季旅館的稽查結果那全台非法的有達到這個1174家有查到的比去年又增加了42家那尤其台北市日租套房它增加了最多410家那換句話說你們有動作"},{"start":14119.847,"end":14148.249,"text":"或許是斷水斷電等這種強制手段但是我們用數字會講話你們採取目前的方案但是他的非法的是增加的他反而比去年同期還增加42家所以你現在是以茶季跟開法為主的機制那我們似乎看到他的嚇阻作用是不足的那所以要請教你要怎麼樣去強化呢因為消費者要求的是一個安全是一個合法"},{"start":14148.729,"end":14166.772,"text":"那政府有這個責任你們預計要怎麼去做呢報告委員其實目前法規上都有啦都有就是因為都有你這個重罰開罰但目前是增加的嘛數字是不漂亮的嘛所以消費者有碰到警訊了嘛那我們政府要怎麼做"},{"start":14167.433,"end":14191.859,"text":"我們還是會盡量去補助地方政府來做稽查因為稽查的方面是地方政府在做那官方署提供人力上面的補助跟協助讓地方政府有更多的資源去做更多的查緝你目前在走的方案就是以查緝跟開罰為基準你認為數字是反而增加你可以怎麼去做調整你把方案給本席好不好好謝謝非常感謝謝謝我們楊瓊英委員好"},{"start":14197.83,"end":14224.58,"text":"接下來我們邀請蔡春籌委員發言主席好有請交通部部長請陳部長還有農業部經濟部中油代表中油"},{"start":14227.254,"end":14241.003,"text":"經濟部 農業部委員好各位好"},{"start":14243.058,"end":14249.843,"text":"今天我們是在應應中東情勢的一個國際油價飆升對於我國的日海空運輸的一個衝擊評估在這裡要先跟部長提醒因為戰爭既然是啟動了但是我們沒有辦法預估戰爭什麼時候會結束"},{"start":14264.138,"end":14273.188,"text":"因此我們一定要做危機處理一定要到位危機處理一定要做到位我是來自於雲林雲林它是農業大縣目前會面臨很多的一個問題所以要請問交通部還有經濟部以及農業部"},{"start":14282.558,"end":14287.624,"text":"是否已經針對這個油價上升對於農產品的一個集貨、冷鏈還有批發以及末端的一個配送成本做一個區域比還有品項比的一個衝擊有沒有做這樣的一個評估"},{"start":14302.03,"end":14328.652,"text":"跟委員報告農業部說明那針對這一波的油價的一個大幅的調升的部分部裡面現在規劃針對我們農漁民特別是這個油電的部分不管是我們農機用油或是漁業的動力用油我們都有在關注也都設定的這樣的一個基準點這個基準點只要一到我們就啟動產業的支持措施那這裡面特別包括"},{"start":14329.472,"end":14351.925,"text":"像我們的肥料我們也都維持這個動長那我們這一個生產量庫存也都可以確保到年底沒有問題那資材的部分我們也都有在留意以上那我們希望你們這些措施真正能夠到年底還可以應付"},{"start":14353.155,"end":14368.854,"text":"跟委員報告沒問題特別是肥料跟資材這一個部分都沒有問題那在運輸的部分是屬於在運輸的部分因為這個物流的部分也是目前台灣算是很重要的一環嘛"},{"start":14369.655,"end":14392.74,"text":"那在這個油價的一個上漲啊那我們是不是就一定是也一樣同步都能夠把握到年底都不上漲跟委員報告我農業部負責是生產端的那現在我在問說運輸的部份油價的部份是交通部的一個權責"},{"start":14394.62,"end":14419.045,"text":"向委員報告運輸的部分我們對於整體的公共運輸的部分行政院已經有一個規定跟政策出來了我們希望公共運輸的部分不要去影響到民眾那針對貨運的部分目前貨運業者他們有提出申請那不過他目前的整體的貨運的那個價格啦還在我們本來之前核准的價格以下所以他自己去做調整就行所以我們交通部這邊的整體的貨運的這個價格我們並沒有要做調整"},{"start":14422.846,"end":14426.269,"text":"希望能夠穩定不要讓人民有感覺到因為這個戰爭這個衝動的影響讓民生感覺到就是很辛苦再來就是說我還是要請問交通部部長因為我還"},{"start":14441.519,"end":14462.746,"text":"因為來自地方我還是很關心 我們地方的客運還有就是偏鄉的街坊 幸福巴士還有尤其是學生的通勤 尤其我們是引領偏鄉我們來的學生大部分都是通勤的 都是要坐車來的那是不是也能夠保證我們的學生或者是我們這些巴士的這些油價這個票件都不會上漲"},{"start":14466.252,"end":14491.138,"text":"像委員報告我們是公路客運的部分我們已經有方案那也會來進行協助所以公路客運的部分不會受到影響那基本上我們國內的公共運輸我們也都希望說不要去受到影響那這個部分我們都有方案跟計畫那偏鄉的幸福巴士是完全沒有影響這個是我們交通部本來的編列的預算在支應所以偏鄉的幸福巴士完全沒影響"},{"start":14491.738,"end":14520.382,"text":"那萬一那如果是針對於學生的課運的這個交通的這個部分呢學生的部分呢因為學生有很多偏鄉的學生他是坐遊覽車來的應該是學校這邊會來做協助啦這個部分不是我們交通部但是我相信學校應該會來做協助這個就是有一點跨部嘛大家跨部來合作來關心嘛那再來就是"},{"start":14522.193,"end":14523.094,"text":"最後因為要提醒交通部就是因為我們國內民眾因為出國的機票變貴了轉向國旅因為台灣的國旅住宿太貴而且交通接駁不便所以我們的旅遊品質"},{"start":14547.717,"end":14562.446,"text":"不趁現在改善的話呢我們轉單效應只能短暫的是一個不得已的一個選擇所以呢對於這個觀光的部分啊那個觀光署有沒有什麼對於因為這樣的一個油價的一個提升然後影響了國外國內的一個觀光的影響有沒有什麼策略"},{"start":14572.596,"end":14598.49,"text":"我請副署長回答謝謝報告委員那我們這個部分我們其實對於住宿的部分其實八成以下八成以下都是在平均房價之下所以我們想要推動平日國旅這個部分讓民眾能夠享受平日國旅不管CP值或VP值都會比較高然後另外我們也會透過台灣觀光100亮點跟縣市政府合作來捲動國旅的一個市場"},{"start":14599.35,"end":14613.825,"text":"我們希望透過這一次的危機能夠變成轉機但是我還是要提醒如果台灣的一個房價整個國際來比台灣的房價還是太貴太貴了所以因此也影響到那個旅遊的意願"},{"start":14614.986,"end":14634.897,"text":"好 那我們希望我們往這個方向來努力最後因為很難得我要請教一下那個交通部長很難得能夠碰到交通部長那因為我來自於雲林縣北港那因為我們北港要到交通要到高速公路必須經過78線快速道路這中間要30分鐘但是我們北港朝天宮我們的相剋一年"},{"start":14643.121,"end":14651.729,"text":"在去年有一千一萬多人次來到我們北港但是呢我們北港竟然有一個我們一直希望有一個78甲這樣的一個快速道路我們申請了30年到現在都沒有下落那麼我們希望因為我們不要讓一千多萬人次來到北港這些鄉客能夠不要那個鄉客都舟車勞頓所以在這一個78甲這一個"},{"start":14668.946,"end":14670.713,"text":"建設呢 我請交通部部長你能夠給我一個承諾好不好"},{"start":14674.498,"end":14699.912,"text":"報告委員這個部分我是第一次聽到啦但是我們來做這方面的研議既然地方有這個需求我們就來討論一下看是不是真的有這個需求存在好的討論完之後能夠書面給我讓我可以跟我們的鄉親做一個交代因為我們這條路已經等了30年了我們已經等不下去了因為我們的鄉客的人數一年比一年成長那我們期待交通部好 謝謝好 謝謝"},{"start":14704.588,"end":14720.022,"text":"我們非常感謝蔡春草委員 謝謝你接下來接下來是王美惠 王美惠 王美惠委員黃婕 黃婕 黃婕委員"},{"start":14726.089,"end":14755.062,"text":"沒有到我們李博義李博義李博義委員不在我們鄭正前鄭正前鄭正前委員不在蔡易瑜蔡易瑜蔡易瑜委員不在林倩琦林倩琦林倩琦委員不在鍾嘉斌鍾嘉斌鍾嘉斌委員不在邱志偉邱志偉邱志偉委員也不在葉元之葉元之葉元之委員不在好接下來我們邀請林楚英委員發言"},{"start":14764.822,"end":14766.785,"text":"謝謝主席 有請交通部部長請陳部長"},{"start":14773.319,"end":14801.455,"text":"委員好部長好 耽誤大家用餐的時間其實這個題目我在國防外交委員會曾經質詢過退府會那就是在新興跟大南客運當中出現了中國的海思晶片而且它是用一個塗抹的方式我想部長非常清楚就是在我們的這個所謂公共客運被列為基礎建設那麼絕對是不可以有中國的系統在裡面而當時我發現的是說這個所謂的吹哨者"},{"start":14802.435,"end":14821.96,"text":"他所給我的資料是他企圖用塗銷的方式以至於這個中國的海思晶片就被植入在星星跟大南科運當中那麼現在我們都知道這個完全是不符合當初所簽下的切結書那麼這一家"},{"start":14823.36,"end":14850.089,"text":"新興承包新興跟燙男客運的這個創意他使用的是誠意的系統當時竊傑書清清明明白白的說這個絕對就是不會有中國製的晶片那麼我不知道這個訊息現在交通部是不是知道了因為我們電動大客車其實有兩個審查的主管機關交通部負責的是車輛安全及法規的部分"},{"start":14850.709,"end":14871.069,"text":"然後當然我知道經濟部的產發署會負責國有化跟技術但是在這樣的一個環節當中到底出現了什麼樣的問題呢再來是當我踢爆這個事情之後我要強調的是我相信這一家創意它使用誠意的系統絕對應該不會只做新興跟大難"},{"start":14875.114,"end":14880.719,"text":"他們的生意吧那麼言下之意是其他的客運當中有沒有這個"},{"start":14882.273,"end":14891.98,"text":"企圖利用塗抹消去的方式讓這個海思晶片能夠植入其中他的問題不只是我所講的這個間諜車啊然後因為他是環境系統他走在路上開他會把所有我們的車警放棄重點是他直接就違反了當初切結書的規定嘛就是不可以有中國的晶片跟系統那麼現在我把這個事情攤開來我想要了解的是"},{"start":14910.814,"end":14932.446,"text":"交通部在廠商如果提交不實資料的時候他把補助領走了現在該怎麼辦首先第一個因為時間有限我想問的是交通部是不是可以去徹查這個所謂創意跟他使用的誠意的系統除了新興大南客運新興跟大南客運之外"},{"start":14933.607,"end":14945.201,"text":"還有沒有別的客運業者也是同樣的方式離貓換太子啊偷天換日那再來就是我們都知道大客車是有所謂的補助那麼這會不會涉及到補助上面在這個所謂其他違法違規的部分來部長"},{"start":14952.95,"end":14980.576,"text":"感謝委員的關心您所關心的這個議題因為前幾天媒體也都有報導所以我們交通部也都有關注到這個議題那幾個部分一個部分是說針對他的晶片是否是國產是否是中國製的部分我們的查核的部分我們已經喊請經濟部因為不要兩個部都去調查了請經濟部去幫我們調查這個部分那目前他們也正在做那您剛剛有提到就是說針對如果有違規的廠商沒有照我們當時的規範跟規定下去做的話我們當然"},{"start":14982.097,"end":14996.69,"text":"當時給的補助必須要追回來那後續就不會有補助那不過這個部分還需要經過查核我們還會經過查核那我剛剛講的說除了經濟部的查核之外我們自己也請我們的車案中心去查明他的車的規格是不是有問題是"},{"start":14997.751,"end":15020.021,"text":"那這個部分我們也會來做這方面的查核而且針對未來啦您在關心的包含說剛剛也有其他委員關心到我們未來機場的這個車子會不會受到影響目前我們的契約裡面有明定那現在有這個案子出來未來在他要交車或者要落實我們的這個契約的時候我們會認真查核內容有沒有違規如果有違規我們一定不接受"},{"start":15020.441,"end":15031.324,"text":"好 那麼我們現在知道就是交通部113年所核定的補助一共是購置創意是299輛那已經撥了6億5273萬多元那114年呢還有197輛但還沒有撥款這個部分我就希望你們能夠謹慎我不知道這個數字對不對因為這個是我發文之後你們所提供的但是不論如何這個經費喔"},{"start":15049.389,"end":15074.85,"text":"出來是很驚人的喔這個也是人民的這個所謂納稅錢再來是他用這種所謂偷天換日 狸貓換太子的方式如果今天我沒有踢爆他可是拿了我們的補助然後呢又讓中國晶片暢行無阻這中間是不是有人謀不章或不法的部分我也希望交通部跟經濟部可以合作然後把這樣的事情把它查清楚好嗎"},{"start":15075.43,"end":15091.232,"text":"好 我們一定會查清楚 這件事情我們不能接受如果沒有符合我們的規定 我們一定會追回來好 謝謝好 謝謝委員好 非常感謝林楚瑩委員好 接下來游皓游皓 游皓委員不在"},{"start":15097.881,"end":15121.102,"text":"我們今天登記的諮詢委員都已發言完畢我們做以下決定第一報告及詢答完畢另外委員洪玉祥 李柏鈺 尤浩委員所提書面質詢列入記錄並刊登公報令委員於諮詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆的部分"},{"start":15122.414,"end":15128.35,"text":"請交通部及相關機關尽速與書面答覆我們本日今天的會議結束散會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}