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孫簡元 孫司長國際合作及經濟事務司 葉志成 葉司長國際傳播司 張秀珍 張司長研究設計會 柯良瑞 柯主任人事處 呂士一 呂處長公眾外交協調會 肖光偉 肖執行長"},{"start":1598.181,"end":1619.227,"text":"領事事務局鄭正勇 鄭局長台灣日本關係協會洪英傑 洪秘書長經濟部主任秘書莊明池 莊主秘國際貿易署胡啟娟 胡副署長重規司 劉玉蘭 劉專門委員國營司 邱萬金 邱專門委員"},{"start":1625.936,"end":1636.422,"text":"能源署油氣發展及管理組 李小娟 李副組長產發署產業政策組 盧碧黛 盧副組長國家發展委員會 張朝能 張卓恩秘書經濟發展處 林紀宏 林專門委員"},{"start":1657.256,"end":1677.467,"text":"我們今天的會議資料我們到昨天上午才到昨天上午昨天下午才送到會場經濟部在六點以後在下班以後我想這個是上個禮拜就已經訂出的題目那這個部分"},{"start":1679.704,"end":1703.305,"text":"好 我們希望因為大家都非常重視而且委員會在這麼早的時間提出那你在大家下班的時間可能還需要特別加班我不知道其他的委員他們要怎麼樣去準備這樣子的一個相關的資料所以我們請所有相關的部會可以就這個部分未來一定要按照我們過去的那個往例好不好好 謝謝"},{"start":1705.026,"end":1721.273,"text":"外交部也是因為外交部更清楚我們至少大概兩天前你們在昨天下午四點多才拿的資料因為兩一戰爭不是現在才發生所以就這個部分在本委員會更不應該有這樣子的一個一個做法好不好好"},{"start":1725.68,"end":1750.935,"text":"我們的題目很困難嗎 瞬息萬變你就你原來的資料你當然是你原來已經發生的事情怎麼瞬息萬變我們都還沒有辦法掌握你不用講還沒有發生的啊所以我們要的是原來的我們委員會本來就是在兩天前幾乎是我們的慣例所以我們也要求尤其是我們本委員會這個部分一定要確實的遵守這樣子的相關規定 謝謝"},{"start":1756.394,"end":1759.716,"text":"補充介紹羅美玲羅委員請問在場委員對於上次會議議事錄有遺漏或錯誤需要更正之處沒有我們議事錄確定本次會議邀請外交部經濟部報告美伊戰爭情勢發展對亞太戰略局勢以及經濟安全之影響並被質詢現在請外交部陳次長上台報告"},{"start":1797.316,"end":1818.132,"text":"主席各位委員各位女士各位先生大家早那麼感謝邀請外交部針對這個美伊戰爭情勢發展對亞太戰略局勢以及經濟安全的影響進行專題報告並且準備質詢書面的報告請參閱以下就幾項重點跟各位進行報告"},{"start":1819.193,"end":1831.92,"text":"首先那麼本次的委員會和關切重點可以說是現在世界各國最關切的國際局勢就像剛才報告的就是說其實也一直在有變化那麼"},{"start":1834.727,"end":1859.463,"text":"美國以色列伊朗的戰爭從今年2026年2月28號爆發作為全世界最重要的一個石油跟天然氣運輸的這個河沐澤海峽遭到伊朗封鎖那麼伊朗供給部分的商船海灣國家的能源設施遭到襲擊導致國際的能源供應短缺以及價格高漲"},{"start":1860.664,"end":1862.988,"text":"全球的關鍵產業供應鏈風險正在逐步攀升"},{"start":1867.81,"end":1884.056,"text":"那麼對於這個亞太地區的國家對於中東戰事的戰略應處處分方面對應處的方面分柱如下首先是美軍支援的這個全球在分配的一個壓力美國確實從這個韓國跟沖繩調度部分的軍力馳援中東那美方雖然像這個日韓強調同盟嚇阻承諾不變"},{"start":1894.58,"end":1911.713,"text":"當然中東的戰事提醒了日韓兩國東北亞的安全東北亞的安保防禦仍然需要跟美方密切協調鞏固目前的同盟承諾第二個亞太的盟友也聲援何不擴散"},{"start":1912.613,"end":1932.709,"text":"同時給予美國正面的支持澳洲首先發表了聲明支持美國對伊朗採取行動日本跟紐西蘭都支持和不擴散並且譴責伊朗印度因為獲得伊朗列為友好國家所以保持中立客觀的調停立場"},{"start":1935.848,"end":1961.926,"text":"另外一個是敦促伊朗這個亞太地區的國家也敦促伊朗不要用他們控制關鍵航道來脅迫全球經濟日本跟歐洲國家已經發表聯合聲明表態願意採取適當的行動協助確保荷姆茲海峽安全通行跟美國親近的國家或者是有盟國家仍然傾向於直接向"},{"start":1962.526,"end":1989.912,"text":"伊朗進行外交交涉來交涉他的通行權以及不應以犧牲全球經濟為代價操控海峽作為戰爭籌碼我相關的這個東南亞國家跟南亞國家的應處分數如下東南亞伊斯蘭國家立場分歧比如說馬來西亞基於伊斯蘭教的一個立場強烈的譴責美國跟以色列"},{"start":1991.032,"end":2014.409,"text":"印尼願為美伊衝突來調停新加坡則拒絕就海峽通行權跟伊朗談判另外本次巴基斯坦居間斡旋促成停火拉抬國際聲量這可能是對於整個南亞的一些形勢會產生變化可能印度並不樂見"},{"start":2016.127,"end":2040.197,"text":"第三對於整個亞太區域經濟安全的影響可以分為三個部分第一個就能源安全這是最重要的一個關心海灣國家是全球能源供應鏈的一個核心那麼許多的亞太國家缺乏油源而且儲油的能量有限能源供應鏈陷入危機即使像澳洲馬來西亞等能源供應國亦無法倖免"},{"start":2041.317,"end":2065.807,"text":"因為區域裡面大部分的精煉燃油是來自於我國新加坡跟日韓而其中大約80%的加工原油要經過赫姆治海峽來運輸這是在整個能源安全的部分第二個是在於關於供應鏈產業供應鏈的部分由於中國立刻實施油品禁令加劇了國際燃油成本上升區域裡面的各國漁業"},{"start":2068.215,"end":2080.313,"text":"交通運輸跟公關運輸業都受到不同程度的衝擊另外包括農業、農耕等高燃料消耗的一個產業也受到嚴重的影響"},{"start":2082.213,"end":2103.919,"text":"全球有三分之一的海運肥料貿易都要經過荷木茲海峽第三是對於全球的民生經濟的衝擊油價上漲導致民生物價通膨對各國產生挑戰尤其是對於太平洋島國跟柬埔寨緬甸等低度開發國家衝擊更加嚴重"},{"start":2105.82,"end":2134.739,"text":"我們的友邦馬薩爾群島剛剛宣布進入到經濟緊急狀態第四,亞太區域各國因應能源問題的方式大概分為三種第一,啟動國內能源因應措施比如說日本啟動了戰備儲油釋放澳洲聯邦政府也成立了燃料供應任務小組越南也成立了能源安全保障工作組"},{"start":2136.38,"end":2159.031,"text":"菲律賓則宣布國家能源緊急狀況印度要求國內增加液化石油氣的生產並且將天然氣優先分配給發電跟民生產業這是在一個重新分配已經因應的部分第二個對於物價的衝擊各國是以穩定國內外的物價跟通膨為要務"},{"start":2160.772,"end":2172.142,"text":"泰國政府已經宣布12項民生必需品禁止漲價新加坡則追加10億新幣援助日本跟七大工業國合作加強匯率監管"},{"start":2177.025,"end":2200.657,"text":"避免伊朗形勢演變成為金融危機共同確保全球的市場穩定第三個部分是國際能源合作跟來源的多元化亞太區域各國均致力尋求能源替代能源進口替代來源包括像俄國其餘中東國家跟非洲等產業包括"},{"start":2201.757,"end":2230.72,"text":"跟俄國跟其他的沒有受到影響的中東國家以及非洲等產油國來採購並且推動能源供應鏈合作結論中東的軍事衝突延續至今演變成全球能源航運跟供應鏈的一個風險行政院召開多項的穩定民生安定專案會議外交部遵奉行政院各項指示持續掌握美伊戰爭的情勢"},{"start":2231.54,"end":2257.626,"text":"以及地緣政治局勢的一個變化那麼積極的護橋推動人道這個援助並且將透過整合總和外交跟各部會密切協作以強化我們的能源韌性跟這個經濟安全也還請這個各位委員指導 謝謝好 接下來請經濟部莊主秘上台報告"},{"start":2267.666,"end":2293.912,"text":"主席 各位委員 大家好全盟國委員會邀請經濟部將就中東情勢對經濟影響供應鏈重組下台灣的信任基礎跟產業角色以及政府協助的因應作為來做扼要的說明敬請各位委員不吝指教第一部分我們來看看美伊戰爭情勢發展對整體亞太經濟的影響那在今年二月份美伊戰爭爆發之後呢"},{"start":2294.632,"end":2312.183,"text":"中東局勢就浚視了升溫,對全球的能源供應造成衝擊。伊朗對橫浦在海峽的航運所採取的限制措施,因為該海峽承載了全球將近20%的石油運量,所以在能源運輸受阻的狀況下,各國轉向現貨來搶購原油,造成國際油價大幅上揚。"},{"start":2317.796,"end":2342.513,"text":"那目前美伊雖然暫時停火那近期雙方的談判雖然沒有達成協議不過他們有考慮再進行談判不過這樣子的情勢還是有相當的不確定性所以使得全球的能源跟物料的價格能再高檔震盪我們以石化業為例從戰爭發生以來包括像以西等"},{"start":2343.454,"end":2358.327,"text":"塑化原料它同步上漲就造成了影響從能源供給端就擴散到了產業的供需平衡那也逐步反映到市場上最終產品的一個價格那國際的機構也對"},{"start":2361.59,"end":2367.473,"text":"整個全球經營前景提出警示,包括像國際貨幣經濟因應中東戰爭的情勢調降了全球經濟預測。亞洲開發銀行則預估亞太開發中的經濟體成長率也會放緩至5.1%。"},{"start":2380.3,"end":2401.301,"text":"接下來我們來看看全球供應鏈重組狀況之下台灣的信任基礎跟產業的一個角色從這幾年國際政經的局勢發展的變動幅度相當的大我們可以看到各國都重新檢視他們本身的供應鏈還有面對美國關稅還有經濟安全的等等議題"},{"start":2402.322,"end":2424.056,"text":"這樣就導致了全球的一個貿易流向加速重塑的一個趨勢尤其是亞太地區因為它本身是全球重要的生產重鎮那它涵蓋的範圍影響了包含像半導體電子製造的一個供應鏈所以它的穩定運作其實對全球的經濟影響非常的一個重大"},{"start":2424.736,"end":2452.186,"text":"那全球經濟呢也在這一波的一個危機當中我們也發現說它也吸取了相關經驗透過整個供應鏈的一個韌性的強化還有透過國際合作來提升它的應變能力那台灣呢我們本身就是透過穩定的對外貿易還有提升成業的研發能力還有積極的跟友邦來合作那深度參與整個全球的分工體系所以當全球環境出現波動的時候呢我們本身確保"},{"start":2452.506,"end":2461.219,"text":"整個供應部中斷讓產業如廠的運作其實對整個全球國際社會都有相當大的幫助也拱佈整個國際社會對台灣的一個信任"},{"start":2463.82,"end":2483.032,"text":"那這幾年呢整個台商順應這一波供應鏈重組的趨勢調整了他的投資跟市場的一個佈局所以從99年台灣對外貿易投資有83.8%在中國到去年已經降到3.8%所以大幅降低了對單一市場的依賴"},{"start":2483.732,"end":2500.396,"text":"那照貿易部分呢今年首季我國對美國出口佔33.5%貿易比重達到23.1那美國也成為我國目前最大的貿易夥伴那另外呢包含像歐洲東協的出口呢在這時間也同時成長了61.9%跟52.3%展現台灣在擴展整個多元市場還有跟各國深化貿易關係的一個成果"},{"start":2509.918,"end":2539.498,"text":"那台灣是亞太區域當中重要的成員那我們持續也跟美、歐、日等理念相近的國家來深化合作包含我們透過跟美國的EPPT還有細甚式宣言的一個簽署這個都顯示台灣是美國在產業發展跟經濟安全上非常重要的一個夥伴那同時我們也透過台美投資備忘錄呢來促使台灣半導體ICT跟美國AI技術的緊密合作"},{"start":2540.258,"end":2554.503,"text":"除此之外,台灣也持續跟更多國家透過經貿往來,包括像跟日本強化半導體供應鏈連結,還有跟歐洲在無人機綠能相關的合作,讓台灣在提升自己本身產業競爭力的同時,也持續回應國際對供應鏈穩定和經濟安全的期待。"},{"start":2560.365,"end":2581.265,"text":"那面對整個國際歧視所帶來的挑戰呢其實進一步跟產業也保持密切的聯繫凝聚共識來擬定因應的對策包含強化能源安全穩定民生經濟來支持產業持續擴展國際市場來提升它的競爭力所以我們主要是從四個面向來著手第一個是能源安全的部分"},{"start":2581.906,"end":2605.178,"text":"都知道能源穩定供應是整個國家跟整個國力的一個基礎也是維繫整個產業跟民生穩定非常關鍵的要素所以面對目前中東戰爭的一個衝擊進一步就會持續掌握國際油氣的供應跟整個運輸管道的一個狀況所以目前我們的能源存量能是持續"},{"start":2606.519,"end":2633.007,"text":"高於整個把定的標準那我們也持續規劃來增加非中東地區的天然氣進口來穩定整個能力的供應也透過調度來確保燃料的充足跟供電的穩定第二部分在供應鏈穩定部分我們進一步目前會盤點大家所關心的石化的議題然後盤點整體的一個供應鏈從上游的原料到中游的製造還有下游的通路做整體的調度來"},{"start":2634.167,"end":2662.604,"text":"因應可能出現的一個供應的一個壓力那我們已經建立了快速媒合跟調避的機制來確保整體的供應無虞第三部分呢我們對產業支持部分呢政府也持續用具體的行動來作為產業的一個後盾包含像提供資金周轉的協助還有研發的補助還有補助企業在海外設置展示中心服務據點還有物流設施來協助我們產業分散市場"},{"start":2663.584,"end":2682.768,"text":"還有供應鏈的風險來強化全球的佈局那在市場擴展的部分我們針對有意發展海外市場的企業經營部目前已經在捷克、日本、美國跟波蘭設置了台灣貿易投資中心透過該中心以暫時的服務來協助展業掌握當地的市場資訊還有相關投資法規的規定"},{"start":2687.029,"end":2711.359,"text":"協助他們也和相關的合作資源來降低廠商在海外投資的障礙最後呢政府會持續透過相關歧視的變化的掌握還有全球供應鏈重組跟地緣政治變動的過程當中台灣會以穩定可靠的經濟表現跟國際夥伴共同努力來面對挑戰然後來維繫台灣長期的一個發展優勢以上報告請您指教謝謝"},{"start":2717.435,"end":2733.845,"text":"好我們現在開始詢答本委會委員5加2分鐘非本委會委員4分鐘10點30分截止發言登記如有臨時提案請於10點30分之前提出11點左右處理現在請陳俊宇委員上台諮詢好謝謝昭偉我們有請陳次長"},{"start":2746.933,"end":2772.447,"text":"請陳市長市長早市長我想先就一個實事題跟市長您來做請教我們先前已經討論過一段時間就是總統出訪的規劃現在總算有很明確的一個消息總統在下禮拜四月二十二將率團訪問我們的非洲友邦蘇阿帝尼"},{"start":2773.027,"end":2792.137,"text":"那今年不但是雙邊建交58週年那也適逢死亡58歲的這個滑蛋還有登基40週年那擴大舉辦的這個雙慶典去年我們林佳永部長曾經以總統的特使身份去訪問死國那死亡也曾經在2024年來到我們台灣參加賴總統的"},{"start":2795.338,"end":2812.075,"text":"這個就職典禮可見我們台史雙方高層往來還是相當的頻繁那從政府的這個我們記者會所公布的相關資訊來看我們這次出訪定調為台史同慶攜手共榮之旅"},{"start":2812.535,"end":2836.782,"text":"我想這不但象徵著我們兩國之間的這個夥伴關係應該也是意涵著當前地緣政治快速變化的這種情況之下台灣在非洲外交佈局的一個思考那這部分我想先就叫部長我們要如何去落實安全共榮、經濟共榮還有數位共榮這三大核心的目標那這種合作模式是否有機會讓我們台灣在"},{"start":2839.383,"end":2847.272,"text":"臨近的這些國家能夠有外交尋求突破的機會是 感謝這個委員的質詢當然我們這次很高興適逢這個死亡58歲的這個鄧成然後也是我們這個台時的58他的這個58年的這個"},{"start":2860.907,"end":2888.906,"text":"兩國友誼的見證總統這次安排出訪也見證了我們跟台灣跟斯瓦帝尼的非常穩固的邦誼當然我們是希望外交部是經過實際的作為來給予像這樣重要的友邦實質的發展的機會像委員剛才提到的像相關的共榮在各個方面我們都有一些具體的作為"},{"start":2889.326,"end":2913.54,"text":"那這次的這個總統的出訪也會參訪那個台時的一個工業發展園區那這就是我們這個雙方的一個發展園區所以我們跟其他的國家有一項中國在非洲的發展是不一樣的我們是要提供他一些真正的好的一個發展的機會我們同時在公共衛生在醫療在數位上面都有很好的合作這次還特別強調一個是我們也"},{"start":2914.7,"end":2931.649,"text":"關於他的整個戰備儲油的這個部分我們也那個協助他能夠來修復這也是增加他的一個能源的韌性但是種種的其實來說起來就是一個在綜合外交的一個理念之下能夠繼續的鞏固發展台灣跟這個史瓦帝尼的這個雙邊關係總統這次出訪就是這樣的一個見證"},{"start":2936.394,"end":2962.767,"text":"那根據這個官方所公布的相關行程我們總統此行還會這個會晤死亡並舉行雙邊的這個會談也預計會簽署這個聯合公報並且這個建政兩國外交部長所簽署的這個官務互助協定那過去我們台時的這個合作已涵蓋農業還有公衛教育還有這個婦女的這個父權等等"},{"start":2963.467,"end":2989.483,"text":"那我想進一步了解是簽署這些文件的背後未來我們有沒有可能是雙方合作帶來這個更大的助益那是不是請市長您這部分說明一下這次要簽署的這個聯合公報還有關務這個互助協定對於提升雙邊的合作關係還有經貿的效率我們預計會帶來什麼樣實質的效果這我們是不是非洲市這邊幫忙寫"},{"start":2992.109,"end":3008.621,"text":"那個聯合公報當然就是去彰顯兩國元首的一些政治還有在經濟的各方面的承諾那也是彰顯說賴總統第一次訪問非洲的友邦的一個承諾"},{"start":3009.782,"end":3027.551,"text":"至於說關稅互助協議基本上這個是要兩國的關稅機關就行政的協助還有一些打擊走私然後來以及貿易進出口的一些措施可以有更多深層的合作這也有助於我們這個"},{"start":3029.713,"end":3037.931,"text":"在使國要推動的產業創新園區未來我們台商會進去投資可以在貿易有更迅速更便利的一個服務"},{"start":3041.683,"end":3056.56,"text":"這重點是在於是說我們也希望透過跟這個使國能夠繼續的強化雙邊的經貿的這個關係透過像我們的官務合作等等的同時我們也成立了這個榮邦這個經貿辦公室也能夠推廣那麼使國的這個產品"},{"start":3061.685,"end":3074.692,"text":"透過這個東西我們一方面是要來鞏固強化提升使國的經濟另外一個也是對於區域國家的一個示範的效果跟台灣密切的配合合作是帶來實質的好處"},{"start":3076.853,"end":3097.449,"text":"那始國不但是我們在非洲唯一的一個邦交國,它同時也是南部非洲關稅同盟還有非洲大陸自由貿易區的一個成員。那如果我們台灣的這個企業以這個始國為作基地,它的產品也可以以零關稅的方式進入廣大的非洲市場。"},{"start":3098.49,"end":3122.879,"text":"那在中國持續拉攏其他非洲國家壓力下鞏固我們跟死國之間的這個邦誼對我們在非洲的這個產業還有外交佈局相信會有非常關鍵的一個戰略意義那我想面對這個全球供應鏈重組的浪潮台灣的這個產業創新園區推動我們要如何能夠作為台灣連結非洲市場的一個據點而目前園區推動的這個其實很違和"},{"start":3125.602,"end":3137.198,"text":"回答委員的質詢,委員說得非常的正確,我們是希望在這個地方做一個重點,然後透過南部非洲共同的經濟圈能夠推廣出去。"},{"start":3141.884,"end":3169.381,"text":"所以台商也在這個地方看到了一個好的機會這是這個我們外交部的一個做法是說能夠強化鞏固這樣的一個園區對於區域的一個經濟的帶動的一個效果所以我們是在這個著眼於這個上面然後也積極的幫這個使國能夠招引更多的這個台商去那個地方甚至是說在其他的這個相關的附近的鄰近的國家如果這個廠商有"},{"start":3170.782,"end":3195.476,"text":"這個繼續的擴張擴大它的這個運作的一個需求的時候也能夠優先選擇我們的這個產業園區來做發展的一個跳板好那最後一個問題就是說中共在這個非洲的外交攻勢上沒有停過常常也有具體的這個針對性特別在這個經貿的手段上中方先前也這個宣布關稅優惠政策他將現行的政策"},{"start":3196.417,"end":3215.035,"text":"架構之下已經給33個非洲國家享有零關稅待遇那從今年的5月開始他將擴大給予非洲53個國家全面零關稅那就唯獨排除這個史瓦帝尼那針對這個部分中共將死國排除在非洲零關稅名單外對於死國的經濟會不會產生什麼樣的"},{"start":3218.078,"end":3242.935,"text":"的這個壓力或是會造成什麼樣的影響是謝謝委員的關心喔那麼我們已經做過評估喔那麼對於其他的國家中共對於這個非洲的其他的國家實施零關稅喔對於使國的經濟其實影響很小幾乎可以忽略那麼主要的是說其實現在跟這個非洲國家中國跟非洲國家的一個經貿"},{"start":3243.855,"end":3265.07,"text":"是一個極其不平等不對等的一個經貿的狀況其實是從非洲國家得到更多的原料等等的輸入然後大量的廉價的產品把中國的過剩的產能銷往非洲地區所以說這樣一個不平等的貿易對於非洲國家的長期發展是有負面的影響"},{"start":3266.391,"end":3286.313,"text":"所以說我們一方面認為是說對於其他的中國對於其他的國家對於使國的這樣一個差別待遇第一個是不公平的但事實上是效果其實是微乎其微的那更重要的是說我們是積極的要來協助那麼斯瓦地尼能夠發展自己的經濟所以我們也著重於"},{"start":3286.873,"end":3301.891,"text":"如何能够把他们的产品农工产品引入到我们的市场以及协助他在这个整个非洲能够去行销我想这是我们的要务所以是说中国这样的一个关税上面的一个差别当然对于我们的"},{"start":3303.332,"end":3320.661,"text":"這個非洲最重要的一個友邦一定會有一些心理上面的一個感受所以我們是能夠希望透過這次的賴總統的這個出訪能夠帶來一些更清楚的一個經濟上面的一個利益好 謝謝市長謝謝委員我們持續努力啦是 我們一起努力好 謝謝好 謝謝接下來請羅美玲委員上台質詢"},{"start":3335.306,"end":3339.75,"text":"謝謝主席尤其經濟部莊主秘莊主秘委員好"},{"start":3348.411,"end":3366.292,"text":"朱米今年二月份美伊戰爭爆發以來呢那什麼時候會結束呢到目前都還沒有達成協議那可能很快美伊就會有第二次的談判可是這次談判確定性還是非常不確定性還是很高那當然國人最擔心的還是能源跟"},{"start":3367.373,"end":3382.989,"text":"這個原物料的這個供應來源以及甚至價格是不是因此會受到這個影響那經濟部有說到就是說目前我國的能源的儲存量其實還是高於法定的這個標準像我們的石油其實有90天以上的這個安全存量那煤炭有30天以上"},{"start":3386.653,"end":3394.238,"text":"那天然氣呢目前我們的這個安全存量的天數是11天所以那甚至我還有看到報導說那經濟部預計在2027年的時候會把這天然氣的這個安全存量提高到14天那我想請教的就是有關於這一個天然氣的部分我有看到就是像這個韓國韓國的安全存量天然氣的安全存量是52天然後日本的是21天所以跟這兩個國家相比的話我們的這一個"},{"start":3414.811,"end":3439.038,"text":"安全存量明顯有一個很大的這個差距所以我想請問主秘就是說OK那如果我們以後調到14天可是這14天跟其他國家來比其實還是有一些落差所以我想請問就是說未來如果我們持續的面對區域的衝突或是航運中斷等這些極端的情境那未來是否我們有進一步要提升的規劃請問主秘"},{"start":3441.159,"end":3454.751,"text":"謝謝委員的一個提醒其實整個確保國家能源安全一直都是進一步非常重要的一個任務那天然氣儲存的部分其實我想委員知道天然氣儲存其實會有一些相關輸儲"},{"start":3456.853,"end":3484.537,"text":"設施的一個配額上面的一個問題所以我們考慮到台灣整個輸出的一個條件還有我們相關整個那一個國家整個營運安全部分所以我們是有階段性的來提高所以目前我們是規劃到2027年再提升到14天那這也會跟我們整體的能源佔比跟未來需求有關所以我們也會韓國跟日本有他們目前整個能源設施的一個條件所以他們目前的量會稍微高一點"},{"start":3485.177,"end":3512.279,"text":"不過因為我們可以透過其他措施的一個輔助包含像我們跟日本韓國之音也可以透過相關的一個合作因為他們的那個天然氣存量部分其實我們可以做相關的一個臨近的一個調度像我們跟日本就有類似這樣子一個合作機制所以剛剛委員提起的部分我想我們會持續來就天然氣安全存量來依據國內的相關除潮的一個條件來做適度的一個檢討"},{"start":3513.46,"end":3517.243,"text":"所以我們能源設施目前的儲存能量不足,所以我們的儲存能量也只能保持在11天或14天的能量,那不夠的時候再來跟日本跟相關的鄰國再來做調度嗎?目前我們的機制是這樣子是不是?"},{"start":3535.376,"end":3553.17,"text":"目前就是我們依照我們興建儲槽的一個進度然後來規劃我們的安全存量那其實同步也考慮到我們整個自己本身在營運調度上的一個彈性所以我們目前階段性的處理上我們是以這個方向來做規劃"},{"start":3554.716,"end":3565.648,"text":"所以說2027年確定會提升到14天所以呢像我們儲槽的這個部分的話我們未來的規劃是怎麼樣我們是有要做"},{"start":3567.443,"end":3594.214,"text":"我們有要做相對這些設施的改善嗎 或是怎麼樣這部分可以說明一下嗎是 如同委員關心的像因為我們因應未來天然氣的一個需求其實在短期之內還是有增加那同時也我們因應到因為目前天然氣佔我國的一個能源使用比例也逐漸增加所以我們針對天然氣包含像接收站然後這些接收站的一個腹地就可以去做相關除潮的興建"},{"start":3594.674,"end":3611.46,"text":"所以目前我們正在強化也加速這些相關設施的一個興建的一個進程那未來配合這進程的一個那個發展還有我們整個接收站跟除潮能量的增加的話我們就可以來增加我們的安全存量的填數"},{"start":3612,"end":3633.232,"text":"現在就是接收站它必須要像過去我知道說我們有好幾個接收站其實都在建設當中其實我們要等到設備完善之後我們才能夠提升我們的安全量的這個天數所以我們也期待國人可以支持我們在天安氣接收站跟儲藏相關設施興建的一個那個協助"},{"start":3633.735,"end":3662.874,"text":"OK好謝謝好謝謝主秘那除了能源之外呢中東的這個戰爭呢對這個晶片產業的影響其實也是特別要做留意的那台灣呢就是呢全球半導體的這個市場像這個氦氣銹跟這個硫磺都是晶片的這個關鍵材料像這個氦氣的話像卡達它就供全球三分之一以上的氦氣那銹的話呢全球三分之二的產量是來自以色列跟約旦那硫磺的話呢它"},{"start":3663.815,"end":3677.786,"text":"其實它大部分它佔了這個像波斯灣地區呢它是佔了全球硫磺出口量的45%所以我想請教像我國的這個氦氣鏽跟這個硫我們有多少是從中東進口那對於我們販導企業產業的影響是什麼"},{"start":3682.198,"end":3707.434,"text":"跟委員報告 其實氦氣目前在整個半熬體驗其實我們現在知道半熬體業業其實在相關的回收都做得非常的確實所以目前氦氣在半熬體大部分都是做鍍膜跟冷卻使用而且他們會有高度 高比例的回收再利用所以它新料部分其實大部分都是做回收再利用過程當中的損耗的一個補充所以它的需求量其實相對比較少"},{"start":3708.254,"end":3734.275,"text":"然後目前整個我們跟氦氣進口的部分其實我們可以透過轉向美國進口來做替代措施所以我們目前量的部分應該在我們掌握之中是比較沒有問題的氦氣是沒有問題那像秀跟這個硫磺大部分都是來自波斯灣地區那我們大部分都是從哪些國家進口到目前為止會不會受影響"},{"start":3735.896,"end":3761.086,"text":"這兩個材料這兩個材料如同委員資料顯示其實它有相當比例是來自於中東國家不過我們也會積極來協助產業尋找其他國家的替代來源那同樣的它其實也會目前我們掌控狀況是在半導體業在這幾個原料部分的來源其實都沒有反映說有缺料缺貨的一個狀況"},{"start":3761.846,"end":3775.477,"text":"目前是安全無虞的是所以我們其他還有其他的替代來源國就是了並不一定說我們要從這個中東地方來進口嗎對主要是廠商都可以回收再利用所以他的需求量沒有那麼大"},{"start":3775.831,"end":3800.266,"text":"OK 好 說實在的因為國際形勢的這個帶來的這個能源的這個風險其實我們要重新再去檢視這個能源的結構跟政策的這個方向那我也知道說這個美伊戰爭國際油價飆漲所以為了穩定這個物價終於有到目前為止已經累計吸收107.3億元那我們看到今年二月份終於有最新的財報公司的淨值只剩下854億"},{"start":3802.347,"end":3829.169,"text":"那如果持續補貼的話如果暫時未歇那這些補貼政策如果要持續的話是不是會嚴重影響中油的這個財政的這個狀況是 如同委員所接受資料其實目前國際原油像布蘭特就漲了71%那像杜拜漲了77%然後我們的原油到暫時到現在其實漲了17%而已所以如同剛剛委員所說的中油其實大量的吸收中間的一個價差"},{"start":3829.91,"end":3849.685,"text":"那進一步也會考慮到整個國際原油的趨勢也會掌握國內物價的變動因為我們知道國內的原油品的價格其實對整個國內的CPI其實是會有連動性的一個影響所以我們也會每週跟每月來檢討國際情勢跟國內物價的一個變動狀況然後來適時來檢討整個油價的一個調動的一個"},{"start":3859.032,"end":3883.222,"text":"趨勢那這個當然就會影響中油的一個財務狀況所以基部已經提出包含像相關的在那取得相關資金或是在尋求行政院可以給予相當的一個補貼的一個那個方案也都正在進行當中希望能夠中油有足夠的一個比較好的一個財務能力來因應包含現在中東跟"},{"start":3883.462,"end":3904.132,"text":"未來可能會有的一些一個變動國際整個油品市場的一個變動的壓力對我在想這個部分我們應該還是在能源政策還是要有比較足夠的這個應變能力跟這個調整的這個空間啦這樣子才能夠維護我們產業跟這個國家的安全好謝謝祖密以上謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝接下來我們請黃仁委員上台質詢"},{"start":3919.746,"end":3923.541,"text":"謝謝主席 有請外交部次長請外交部次長"},{"start":3931.035,"end":3952.164,"text":"委員長本席有收到外交部一份公文,表示台灣光華雜誌在東南亞山嶼版、印尼版、越南版、泰嶼停刊、電子版也不再更新那光華雜誌過去裡面是五千年的歷史"},{"start":3952.904,"end":3978.281,"text":"那對於我們外交部專門向國際社會介紹台灣的軟實力的多元面貌的看護見證台灣從經濟面的起飛到民族的轉型、社會多元發展的一個歷程東南亞一般也有十年的一個歷史所以光華雜誌也非常符合部長的雙軌外交的理念"},{"start":3978.841,"end":4000.507,"text":"所以本縣很好奇的停刊的原因,外交部決定停刊東南亞三語版,最主要的政策目標是什麼?你來回答一下好不好?是,那個感謝委員的一個詮詢,因為很重要的是說我們要去調整今天在新的國際傳播的一個環境之下,那原來的這個紙本我們要衡量它的效益跟它的成本之間的一個考量。"},{"start":4001.187,"end":4020.488,"text":"所以在考慮我們的發行量的情況之下我們對於外的整個傳播策略有一些相對的調整同時我們現在有發現在國內有很多的其他的管道也能夠去發揮傳播台灣軟實力的一個效應比如說台灣Plus"},{"start":4020.928,"end":4039.5,"text":"比如說中央廣播電台,我想他們都有更廣大的受眾,那麼我們覺得在這個考慮之下,我們在整個成本跟效益之間的考量之下,做這樣的新的一個調整。因為時間因素,你把我這些資料彙整一下,在東南亞三一版的一個平行的發量,"},{"start":4041.146,"end":4064.739,"text":"這個讀者數 線上流量如何 平均每接觸一名讀者的成本是多少那另外這一份 把細節的部分來 還有一份那其他的來 其實如果以拓展市場的角度日本社會對台灣的認識已經夠充足了民眾對台灣本來就有相當的好感"},{"start":4065.339,"end":4085.096,"text":"那資訊取得管道也比較多 也是一個完善的市場那相對來說 東南亞對台灣的認識有限那以言格合相較於 更重要是對中國大陸在當地宣傳力道很強反而是我們需要開拓 開拓和經營的市場"},{"start":4087.398,"end":4103.503,"text":"那外交部保留官罰雜誌日語版而停刊東南亞山語版是否在策略上已經有互相矛盾甚至可以代表外交部的策略將資源優先投在已經友好的國家而不是在"},{"start":4104.103,"end":4123.11,"text":"需要经营的国家所以本席请教次长外交部以光华杂志的定位是什么是文化外交还是对外宣传的工具那外交部有没有评估过如果东南亚三一版停刊了会不会影响到光华杂志所赋予的一个政策的目标你回答我"},{"start":4124.392,"end":4148.676,"text":"那個報告委員現在我們的整個調整語系的這個版本現在只剩下兩個就是中文跟英文而已沒有日語版日語版一樣在這一次跟這個東南亞有保留啊日語版對啊有保留啊我們現在沒有沒有日語版也沒有沒有保留沒有保留嗎對對沒有對那你報告裡面怎麼有寫保留呢"},{"start":4152.268,"end":4172.288,"text":"沒有,應該是沒有,我們現在就只留中文版跟英文版好,那這樣的話還算是你們有一個能見度的理解那另外就是,如果外交部打算退出東南亞生意的市場裡面,那本席也尊重"},{"start":4173.907,"end":4187.327,"text":"那如果還想要繼續經營,本身希望了解停亢後的資源將如何重新的分配,那對東南亞受眾的溝通是否完整的有替代方案,有沒有替代方案?"},{"start":4191.097,"end":4196.501,"text":"報告委員就是這個停刊呢就是並不代表說我們那個新南向政策就沒有我們新南向政策呢各個相關部會他們都還是會繼續的執行那我們會停刊呢主要就是說我們就是看他過去這十年來不管是紙本還是線上都沒有達到預期的效益甚至呢"},{"start":4216.237,"end":4231.614,"text":"那現在沒有疫情的效果那你們有沒有重新檢討然後有沒有替代方案然後往哪個方向來走資源都還在那現在停刊了那你現在把那個資源要轉向哪裡替代方案是什麼你回答"},{"start":4232.054,"end":4253.581,"text":"我們人員都會做適度的一個規劃那另外一個東西我們會透過跟這個中央廣播電台等等的這個新的這個媒體的這個合作透廣線上的一個資源由他們來專業來處理因為外交部畢竟人員有限那個我們的資源也有限所以我們認為他應該做得更有效所以我們會透過跟"},{"start":4254.861,"end":4274.667,"text":"像這個中央國民電台以及其他的這個國際發聲的管道尤其會著重於這個像東南亞國家的這個這個傳播上面這我們外交部一定會持續的善用AI的持續的擴散力好不好那個委員說的很好我覺得我們會再努力的在本個AI的這個技術應用在我們國際傳播上面"},{"start":4275.947,"end":4299.412,"text":"好那另外就是丹麥從2024年的3月左右開始對旅居的丹麥的台灣人居留證國際已出生地從台灣改成為中國那外交部近期祭出反制的一個措施取消丹麥駐台代表部分特權以禮遇那請問一下市長"},{"start":4300.152,"end":4316.957,"text":"那過去兩年前,丹麥改變措施的時候,外交部為什麼開始進行交涉了嗎?這個兩年前有沒有進行交涉?那為什麼最近才會祭出這樣一個反制的動作?那這樣的話是不是"},{"start":4319.642,"end":4329.198,"text":"重矮化了我們然後你們在兩年前有沒有進行交涉為什麼兩年後你們才會祭出反制的一個動作你回答這個問題"},{"start":4332.2,"end":4355.012,"text":"報告委員我們事實上在兩年前就已經展開交涉而且這個交涉也是透過國會透過行政部門以及透過他們的駐台代表都與嚴正的要求那但是他們因為這段時間他都沒有任何的改善那所以我們決定祭出更嚴格的限制所以這個我待會我就拿南非跟韓國的比較"},{"start":4356.613,"end":4378.73,"text":"南非在這樣的矮化我國的外交的時候你們就一到兩個月就取消了做提出一個反制韓國將近一年矮化我們外交事務的時候你們就取消在一年內就取消為什麼丹麥兩年以後才會做反制的動作那另外我還講一句話在賴總統在"},{"start":4383.208,"end":4397.757,"text":"我在同年2024的同年的11月賴琢磨還接待了丹麥國會的議員訪問團並感謝他們對民主台灣的支持當時政府還沒警覺到丹麥未必真的這麼支持台灣"},{"start":4398.918,"end":4418.574,"text":"有這麼支持嗎所以那個時候你們都還沒有反制的動作你們應該在之前賴總統在接待丹麥的國會議員的時候你們應該就應該告訴給賴總統說你們已經提出反制而不是在賴總統在當下告訴給丹麥的國會議員說"},{"start":4424.018,"end":4430.763,"text":"這個感謝他們對我們民主台灣的支持我說這個是不是相對的矛盾呢你回答我這個問題好不好"},{"start":4432.214,"end":4459.392,"text":"事實上我們有相當多的丹麥國會議員是有協助我們去跟他的政府溝通所以我想現在是他們丹麥行政部門的問題那事實上我們去年所以我們接待他們根本是浪費了我們國家資源嘛是不是你兩年前就要寄書然後表達對你們矮化了我們中華民國然後把我們丹麥的這一些在丹麥的這一些這個橋"},{"start":4463.369,"end":4487.485,"text":"我們的僑民變成了改為中國本來是台灣改為中國所以這個就是已經矮化了我們你們應該兩年前就應該有一個反制的動作現在你們才反制動作所以這個是一個你們要檢討的地方那另外就是我們一定都是對國家的立場非常的一個堅持所以我們的反應一定是第一時間會提出相關的對他們的教訓"},{"start":4488.806,"end":4516.748,"text":"你只要說檢討就好了不要再找理由因為這個是數據已經顯示出來是我們未來任何一個有邦交國是友好國家只要是矮化我們中華民國的時候你們就應該立刻祭出反制的動作而不是拖延你們對南非一到兩個月對南海就一年以內那為什麼單單一個丹麥你們就卻要用這樣的一個角度"},{"start":4517.388,"end":4538.109,"text":"現在我們要講一個反思一個動作那如果本席比較南非跟韓國和丹麥南非屬於典型的新興民主的國家經濟學人民主指數將其評為缺陷的民主民主應做正常但是品質中等邊下"},{"start":4540.231,"end":4551.179,"text":"那第二個,韓國同樣也被經濟學人民主指數評為切線的民主,且韓國民主政治長期受強人統治與財閥的一個影響。那我們講一個丹麥。"},{"start":4555.382,"end":4575.868,"text":"丹麥被長期評為完全民主那國家是非常典型且成熟的民主國家經濟發展也非常進步穩定所以這個三個國家矮化我國的行為背後明顯都是與中國大陸有關那過去在我們這個被認知中民主制度缺陷於經濟發展對中國大陸依純度"},{"start":4579.369,"end":4602.366,"text":"存度高的但是丹麥顯然不屬於這樣的一個國家那外交部是否有研究為什麼丹麥會有這樣的一個舉動所以你們應該要重新思考哪一個缺陷的民主國家跟有完全民主的國家裡面我們應該努力作為我們友好邦交的國家才是啊第二個我們"},{"start":4603.226,"end":4620.253,"text":"部長一直推崇這個總和外交那我一直提到原民外交部長也認同所以你們要跟原民會做橫向聯繫如何要拓展在困境外交的情況之下把我們的"},{"start":4621.653,"end":4638.423,"text":"這個外交更能擴散要借用我們南東語系民主啊是不是是你們做了沒有你們跟原民會有橫向聯繫沒有我提到這一些你們總和外交你們部長也支持到現在沒有任何的進展把推未來的進展報告給我一份好不好"},{"start":4638.883,"end":4661.699,"text":"是,我們這個之後隨即會給予委員辦公室提供相關的資料。但也謝謝委員特別提到的原民外交,這是我們努力的方向。那我們現在正在安排跟原民會進行一個雙部長的會議,大家能夠協同一致,能夠拓展原民外交。我要再跟委員報告,原民外交的確是我們的外交作為一個非常重要的部分,非常多的國家強調這個。"},{"start":4662.78,"end":4678.651,"text":"最近才有加拿大的議員來訪他們也強調了這個東西其中也包括原名的加拿大他們叫First Nation的議員來訪所以我們特別強調在這上面我們跟加拿大能夠互相合作的一個地方把這個短中程進程長程的計畫報告給你一份"},{"start":4692.418,"end":4695.8,"text":"好 接下來請王逸川 王委員上台質詢好 謝謝主席我們是請外交部 經濟部 國營司跟能源署請以上部會人員就備訓台 謝謝早好 早"},{"start":4720.663,"end":4743.774,"text":"今天這個召委安排這個會議很好可是我看兩個單位寫的報告很差很差啦我先講經濟部經濟部裡面的寫法好像都沒問題都沒問題你們裡面所有用的說法完全都沒事是這樣嗎"},{"start":4745.353,"end":4767.319,"text":"這美伊戰爭對美伊之間這些事情對我們來說完全沒事欸你們裡面用的文字啊看不出你們在煩惱捏是這樣嗎包委員其實美伊戰爭剛有提到它對全球整個有品市場的影響其實真的對國內的能源供應商造成一定的壓力你說的這句話差一堆"},{"start":4768.606,"end":4782.792,"text":"我們在前面的在第一段部分有特別提到這個整個全球...你們後面的所有的政府協助因應沒有任何一個啊你全部都說什麼台灣供應鏈如何如何啊這一個你們會持續的這個關心如何如何那為什麼沒有事情啊"},{"start":4788.977,"end":4817.568,"text":"因為這次題目主要是講那個亞太經濟跟經濟安全所以我們就比較沒有琢磨在能源安全在我們這幾天極力在確保所以你說美伊站在你們的立場美伊這樣的事情對我們的經濟安全站在你們經濟部立場整本報告看起來都沒問題都沒問題 都要玩樂有 其實在能源安全部分有一定的壓力看不出來啊看不出來啊你們哪一段告訴國會人說這個美伊的事情對我們的經濟安全有很大的影響哪一句"},{"start":4818.49,"end":4819.651,"text":"對一句國營私人元素來來來你都沒疫情你都覺得這沒事對你都沒營養是這樣嗎包委真的是有影響所以我們有影響你的報告都看不出來"},{"start":4838.055,"end":4848.839,"text":"因為我們著重在整個亞太戰略的部分所以那部分我們委員需要資料我們可以再補充給委員今天召委安排這個會是要來聽你們講這些的是不是你們要跟國人講啊這對我們的經濟安全有什麼影響啊是你們現在還在說半導體 還在說供應鏈是不是這樣吧 這報告 報告這麼晚才送來送來的東西怎麼看都不要緊"},{"start":4868.739,"end":4877.671,"text":"這樣這陣子期間所有的商業在煩惱中 油拿起起來 油拿起起來後面連帶的 大家營養到的你們在那邊看 沒藥沒金啊這樣對不對"},{"start":4882.177,"end":4904.387,"text":"各位我們這一部分是要因為我們其實在另外的報告裡面其實一直很強調我們在穩定能源供應這一塊進一步跟整體政府的作為那這一塊可能在今天報告裡面我們沒有把它強調所以我們之後會再做相關補充你想要表達你們很煩惱的叫大家交費商業給大家提供一下要補中油跟中油拜託一下"},{"start":4910.64,"end":4917.182,"text":"不要去!這個表達,不是說這幾本報給我們看,我們都站在旁邊看來,外交部,你們的報告裡頭啊,羅列了這次的事情,各國啊"},{"start":4927.008,"end":4939.777,"text":"不管是這個個別的國家 個別的元首 個別他們派出去的代表 或者區域性的這些組織啊對這個事情的關心 有情形 企業 有客廳 你們都留下來了中華民國外交部在這件事情裡面做什麼事情"},{"start":4943.959,"end":4947.282,"text":"是,我們在中東戰事發生之後,我們就開始成立小組我們每天會開會,能夠實時的因應因應了什麼?來,因應了什麼?我們護橋優先,護橋優先所以我們在戰事期間,我們同時要求駐外的管處,全力的協助國人"},{"start":4970.482,"end":4996.393,"text":"你們每週多少國人 因為要留在那邊 為你協助從別的國家離開然後跟一些團說你不要再去那裡玩 你們都有做 我知道在經濟安全這件事情 外交部有做什麼事情報告我們現在經濟安全的部分主要是第一個是說收集相關的資訊 跟經濟部密切配合你的收集資訊"},{"start":4998.869,"end":5006.223,"text":"我們如果外交部還是主導的一個機關他們如果有需要我們通過外交的手段有什麼需要外交部幫忙"},{"start":5008.496,"end":5033.424,"text":"報告委員跟外交部合作部分當然就是第一個掌握其他國家在因應那個中情中戰爭的一個策略然後他們實際國內的一個影響狀況來跟國內來做比較另外當然我們會有一些需要轉移從中東進口來源的轉移部分然後透過外交部來協助有沒有跟其他國家你看到外交部今天下的報告外交部今天下的經濟報告你有看過嗎"},{"start":5034.772,"end":5058.462,"text":"有 你有看到其他國家做什麼事情嗎?有你需要外交部去做什麼事情嗎?我們在行政院內部我們跟外交部跟其他部會都有持續的一個合作不是合作啦 我說外交部裡面有下很多國家他們透過各種的管道 有清新的 有卡電話的 有登場的拜託的"},{"start":5060.002,"end":5082.427,"text":"我們經濟部 叫外交部 請外交部說你們可以派什麼人 去跟什麼人說什麼事情你們經濟部有沒有提出這個要求啦不是都外交部 外交部收集 叫外管去收集資訊回來來大家行政院來開會 他們報告之後經濟部拜託外交部說 我們現在需要你們去跟我們倒傻講什麼事情有沒有提出這個需求啦"},{"start":5084.128,"end":5112.515,"text":"我想有啦經濟部這個要求在這個相關的能源調度上當然他們才掌握價格嘛比如說今天天然氣必須要從澳洲從這個加拿大從美國來調貨現貨上面我們要去協調是不是這個東西同時我們也提供給這個經濟部相關的評估這個戰事就我們的了解從美方掌握的資訊從這個日方所掌握的資訊其他的這個理念相信國家掌握的資訊還會再持續多久那是不是要做稍微長期的規劃"},{"start":5113.655,"end":5128.9,"text":"那以及長期規劃裡面是不是需要透過因為說實在現在大家都在搶貨那我們現在是不是能夠透過外交的一個努力我們跟加拿大我現在就問你有沒有啊是有在這上面是有有啦好啦你如果真的這就廢棄了你沒辦法說就說有就好了啦是阿不然你們的行政院叫這麼多部委來開啊你們報告之後現在他們聽了怎麼說我們沒事情啊聽了之後就報告你來看這報告裡面沒有一句緊張的我們是說我們沒事情呢這樣還不通"},{"start":5144.585,"end":5152.533,"text":"拜託啦,你們這個經濟部喔,你們這樣為了中意,又不去企業,這樣被人家要死你也表達一下,說你有什麼歡樂叫大家體諒一下,叫我們國內體諒一下,大家補貼一下沒有啦,今天早上拜這個節目,想說這個經濟部判定來,我們這個外交國防來報告一下結果你們搞這個東西來,這是看起來就沒效啦"},{"start":5171.181,"end":5188.067,"text":"謝謝委員提醒其實進一步一直持續有在對社會說明我們對中油相關協助需要大家的支持所以要謝謝委員的支持好啦加油啦拜託啦你不這樣報時不報憂啦大家都在歡樂啊你怎麼看人家都說沒壓沒緊啦好嗎好謝謝感謝委員好謝謝接下來請陳冠廷召委上台質詢"},{"start":5213.92,"end":5236.45,"text":"我們請次長請陳司長委員長市長早 市長我們先從中東的局勢開始來講那我們講到戰略那我不知道你們有沒有很嚴正的把我們的擔憂跟這個美方講就是說長期的戰事它會傷害到的不是"},{"start":5237.708,"end":5263.409,"text":"台灣而已是美方的盟友包含菲律賓緊急狀態是還有日本韓國是這些擔憂有沒有確實的跟美方來表達過有我們那個透過駐外使館喔以及我們跟這個AIT的這個在台灣的這個互動喔都有表達我們的了解他們怎麼回應他們怎麼回應他們怎麼回應喔當然是說其實說來在正式的發展他們也都了解我們的擔憂齁那麼這個他們就時時會"},{"start":5267.666,"end":5285.132,"text":"當然他不可能事前告訴我他下一步的一個動作那可是對於上這個這個和談的一個那個時候在巴基斯坦這個談判的內容我們也透過管道去了解那相關的這個發展那麼也評估說對之後我們的可能的影響在什麼樣的一個地方"},{"start":5287.273,"end":5301.662,"text":"那我們可能要的一個作為有請這個美方能夠協助尤其是在能源方面吼那這個剛才經濟部也有很多的一個報告像能源上面的確是很辛苦吼調度上面不容易我們也跟美方特別來強調在這個上面就是這個台灣跟美國吼"},{"start":5305.104,"end":5332.072,"text":"以及在其他的理念相近國家能源韌性合作的一個開始我們也把它看成是一個新的一個機會那麼也跟美國也跟我們的國內的來說是說我們多元化我們的採購來源是非常的重要所以我們也希望在這個上面能夠給我們的友邦傳達一個清楚的訊息我們有意願而且現在也是有必要在這個能源韌性的議題上面能夠做更多的合作"},{"start":5332.554,"end":5353.619,"text":"好那我必須要強調這個其實在盟友之間的交流特別是說發動重要衝突之前那告知甚至是讓我們有所防範讓我們可以做一些準備是非常重要的所以我認為這是一個本來就是應該要做的那包含我們不知道衝突的這個時間點有多長或多短"},{"start":5354.239,"end":5365.763,"text":"我們必須要知道時間的長度我們才有辦法來去做調度那另外一方面我看到之前的委員都有提到包含澳洲大概是30幾%嘛那卡達也是超20左右20 30嘛那還有美國大概是9點多快要10%嘛那以後未來這個調整怎麼調怎麼樣能夠加強我們對他們的投資"},{"start":5376.463,"end":5397.66,"text":"確保去風險我們重點是要去風險的話現在已經不是在比哪一個東西便宜而是哪一個東西的風險是比較相對低的因為我們現在是要求有而不是只是要便宜而已特別對我們的所有的石油衍生的產品以及我們重要的這個科技高科技產業來講這一切都是很必要性的所以我認為我們也有必要跟美方來"},{"start":5398.681,"end":5419.013,"text":"特別要強調這樣已經不只是能源不只是說這可能會傷害到盟友而已而是說美方的戰略投射必須要重返印太已經講了10年20年了如果我們的外交部沒有辦法把這個訊息跟我們必須要強調日本菲律賓紅部跟美方再次強調這件事情的話我覺得會傷害"},{"start":5420.512,"end":5449.796,"text":"我們自己國家的利益也會傷害到美國的利益我們不是站在我國的利益而已而是站在我們盟邦的利益一起來去討論這件事情這個已經是非常嚴重的事情我們看到說大量的軍事資產都往中東送大量的這個軍事的人員也都往中東送這會造成印太地方的中空那這個如果印太地方的真空出現之後那對台灣的安全威脅是無與倫比的我們必須要很嚴正的跟我們的盟友講那也必須要做最"},{"start":5451.381,"end":5468.809,"text":"最不好的準備最好的準備就是當然是要跟日本跟菲律賓我們至少在這個中等國家之間的聯盟上面不管是在去衝突化在這種雷達雷琴上面的去衝突化的識別化這些都是需要外交部主動來去詢問國防部主動來去詢問經濟部讓他們能夠來去做整體的這個規劃"},{"start":5472.031,"end":5499.783,"text":"不是說我成立一個工作小組你成立一個工作小組又怎樣你們解決了什麼事情我們的報告不是要說我成立了哪個小組做我要看到是你做了什麼事情你協調了什麼事情你跟哪裡進了哪些能源可以確保說我活在未來的一個月兩個月三個月到七個月都可以不用擔心這才是我們報告要的我不需要很多文字上面的贅述不需要那包含我也這樣在這邊跟所有的這些外交部經濟部跟所有的同仁們講以後特也是國防部現在他沒有來沒關係"},{"start":5501.044,"end":5519.583,"text":"我們的報告內容 其實最次不要多 不是機密的就不要說是機密這樣子以後我們再去做事情的時候會更有用再來我們要提到一下這個中國國民黨 曾立文他們主席去訪問中國的時候他們有講一些反殖民跟反日的論述 我們有準備好要怎麼樣去針對這個論述來去反制嗎"},{"start":5525.631,"end":5541.771,"text":"首先我們感謝委員的關心,我們當然對於國內的政治外交部是沒有立場,但是我們也希望國內的主要政治領袖必須要準確的傳達台灣的主流民意,就是中華民國台灣與中華人民共和國互不隸屬的事實。"},{"start":5543.473,"end":5568.606,"text":"那從歷史上面也是這樣,中華人民共和國從來沒有統治台灣那這個東西我想是一個共識那如果政治領袖傳達一個錯誤的訊息往往會產生一個很重大的後果尤其是對於像中華人民共和國這個對台灣有敵意的一個國家常常會用這個問題來操作那我們也覺得這個事情上面我們都必須要特別的小心謝謝次長"},{"start":5569.306,"end":5590.319,"text":"市長他們不斷的強調用反殖民的這樣的說法說說台灣也是在反殖民中國也是在反殖民我要跟大家報告這個當初在這個川普在6月6日在跟德國的總理他們在會晤的時候他說D-Day對你們德國來說可能不是一個愉快的日子"},{"start":5591.052,"end":5612.008,"text":"但是那總理怎麼回應他說這是我國從納粹獨裁統治下獲得解放的日子同樣也是當初為什麼會有中日戰爭就是因為他們軍國主義的擴張當初為什麼會有歐戰跟二戰就是因為納粹主義的擴張那是什麼樣的作戰解放了他們是美國以及當初的中華民國"},{"start":5613.729,"end":5637.1,"text":"我們從被壓迫的軍國主義以及歐洲被納粹主義從解放出來的那時候我們的盟國是誰中華民國台灣的盟國中華民國的盟友又是誰很明顯的是美國嘛對不對所以我們這個歷史觀要很清楚的知道說是什麼樣的解放出來那日本跟德國在戰後之後變成什麼樣的國家民主的國家甚至是經濟的重心是歐盟的經濟的重心因為他們從軍國主義從納粹主義轉換"},{"start":5640.442,"end":5657.836,"text":"他們從新的來去做民主的轉型經濟的轉型那中國部分也是一樣中國在歷經他們的改革開放之後他們做了經濟的轉型經濟的轉型讓很多人脫貧對此我們是歡迎的我必須要很清楚的讓所有的民眾知道我們並沒有仇視中國人"},{"start":5658.636,"end":5681.919,"text":"但我們不希望的是用極權的方式來去改變我們的生活方式這是我們的外交論述不是每次就只是單純的從樣的照本宣科沒有這樣子的你要跟民眾講清楚我們的外交是在做什麼我們要爭取的是什麼那現在中國做了經濟轉型之後他們沒有做政治轉型這就是跟我們完全不同的地方我們沒有要追求中國的"},{"start":5683.001,"end":5709.684,"text":"政權更替沒有 這不是我國的利益我國利益就是台灣就是台灣以及我們的台澎金馬這是我國的利益我們沒有要求中國要走向政治改革這不是我的工作我的工作就是在台灣確保台灣2300萬人有我們自己的生活方式要保護我們的生活方式要維持我們的生活方式所以對我們來說反殖民也好反帝國主義也好反軍國主義也好都是在維持我們的生活方式同樣的我們也反極權"},{"start":5710.825,"end":5725.748,"text":"我們也反對中共直接來武力犯台這也是維護我們的生活方式請大家仔細思考一下以後外交部不要每次都說這個我們這個理念相同啦價值觀相同我們要跟多少個跟價值觀不同的國家來互動我們盡量國家不用跟"},{"start":5726.509,"end":5754.738,"text":"這些東南亞的國家來互動嗎他們的理念價值跟我們一樣嗎他們也追求民主自由嗎有些有有些並不是我們沒有我們是一個中等國家中等國家不是超級強國我們不用干預每一個國家的內政但是我們必須要維持我們的內政我們維持內政就是民主自由這是我們的生活模式不會強加在其他人身上也不希望任何人強加在我們身上未來我希望說外交部也好入委會也好針對這種不同的說法我們"},{"start":5755.618,"end":5782.168,"text":"必須要有一個特別是有些時候是disinformation給這種錯假亂訊息想要扭曲我國的主權想要扭曲我國的事實上的存在的時候必須思考一下你要用什麼樣的方式來去有效的詮釋我們國家生存的價值跟我們國家跟其他國家互動的利益如果沒有的話那現在要馬上思考一下我們的外交戰略是什麼好 謝謝是感謝委員的質詢喔這個還有佩服委員的這個歷史觀以及世界觀謝謝"},{"start":5787.145,"end":5789.768,"text":"好接下來請王定宇委員上台質詢好謝謝主席請兩位兩位次長跟主秘請陳次長還有經濟部組莊主秘"},{"start":5812.222,"end":5838.264,"text":"兩位好我先就我們今天的主題有關伊朗的戰爭對我們國家的大概能源、經濟都有影響從塑膠袋到我們最近看到鋪馬路的AC薄油到油那美國的油價好像漲了一倍到兩倍那台灣因為中油的犧牲奉獻吸收所以油價還算控穩那油價控穩其實不是好到加油的人而已"},{"start":5838.925,"end":5859.735,"text":"它是物價之母它會影響到所有像以前電價為什麼要補貼台電當然在野黨不贊成台電的電價不是用電的人在用而已台電會影響到麵包啊烤這個石化很多東西會用到它之後所以把它價格控穩它會影響所有的物價所以它是物價之母"},{"start":5860.635,"end":5883.881,"text":"那我今天要問兩位的是第一個我請教經濟部我國有沒有從伊朗購買石油或天然氣包圍沒有因為伊朗的石油大概佔全球供應量的9%到12%但它80%賣到亞洲那它的天然氣大概佔全世界的17%"},{"start":5885.862,"end":5900.818,"text":"好 那這個是伊朗的部分那赫姆茲海峽那個海峽出口它影響到的國家有伊朗 伊拉克 沙烏地 阿拉伯阿拉伯 聯合大公國 巴林 卡達等等這些國家的油跟天然氣我們台灣有沒有採購"},{"start":5902.456,"end":5914.603,"text":"呃有我們呃經過荷姆斯海峽的那個油漆大約佔百分之三十四左右我們的對你現在講天然氣34就是我們天然氣會經過荷姆斯海峽台灣從這個經過荷姆斯海峽運輸的天然氣佔我們國內的進口量34%對油呢油差不多是"},{"start":5928.047,"end":5950.682,"text":"62%我可以接受葉管直接講你的聲音也可以出現所以其實如果和睦之海峽封鎖不能運送對我國的能源供應其實會吃緊的那安全儲備量涉及國安我就不問了但是這兩個命題為什麼要分開問外交部次長跟經濟部主秘這兩個題目不一樣"},{"start":5953.373,"end":5977.72,"text":"如果美國是封鎖伊朗的每個港口跟伊朗跟美國的戰爭封鎖了荷姆茲海峽這兩個命題對我國的經濟跟國家安全有沒有差別有差別喔 差別很大喔如果伊朗的石油天然氣消失就你們手上的資訊你們的了解全世界哪個國家會受害"},{"start":5978.34,"end":6002.999,"text":"中國會最嚴重這已經不是標準答案 這叫基本常識因為伊朗它的油百分之八十消亡亞洲而最大甚至於幾乎是唯一的buyer就是中國可是荷姆茲海峽會影響每一國因為荷姆茲海峽控制了全球的油跟氣全世界百分之二十"},{"start":6003.991,"end":6028.394,"text":"然後伊朗的天然氣呢佔全世界的17%石油佔9%到12%這兩個數字再加總起來看你就會知道從荷姆茲海峽出來其實伊朗的油跟氣佔大宗那只是因為我們台灣不是一個能源生產國所以我們從這邊運輸過來的佔比佔我們比較重和佔全世界來講如果扣掉伊朗的話"},{"start":6029.488,"end":6051.242,"text":"其實荷姆斯海峽影響全世界的油跟氣的佔比就沒那麼高了所以川普打了先打委內瑞拉再打伊朗其實是算過的委內瑞拉的油源控制加上美國現在是全世界大概前幾名吧大概幾乎最大的產油產氣國所以他把最大的儲量的委內瑞拉"},{"start":6052.122,"end":6074.633,"text":"跟最大產出的美國先抓在手上然後赫姆斯海峽一封受影響的台灣會受影響但是如果現在美國剛才在進行的是對伊朗的港口的封鎖那對台灣如果赫姆斯海峽可以走的話只是封鎖從伊朗港口出來的話經濟部你們評估"},{"start":6076.659,"end":6103.916,"text":"這對我們的經濟影響是什麼包委員這當然如果剛剛委員講對我們來講我們就可以在經濟安全上面壓力就會小很多也會避免剛剛所提到因為能源安全壓力所造成國內在整個有物料的一個供給還有相關價格上漲的壓力所以對整個經濟發展其實是非常有正面影響我國的安全儲量是國安機密那中國的油跟氣的儲量是多少你們有沒有這數據"},{"start":6107.144,"end":6125.511,"text":"45天了他們有公佈過了45天嘛那現在這個荷姆茲海峽跟伊朗的油氣不能運送幾天了你們有沒有統計幾天了幾天4646天是戰爭喔但荷姆茲海峽的運輸線被斷掉是幾天"},{"start":6131.55,"end":6158.579,"text":"你們沒有算這個 你怎麼去算這個危機啊這我不在考你們數據 你知道嗎這邊的運輸 這個都數學問題啊運輸是一個logistic flow 是一個數學問題那個地方占比多少 封了幾天哪一個國家進口量最大 哪一個國家怎麼樣那是可以算的然後現在偷跑出三條船 是哪幾國的是不小心跑掉還是刻意的 那個都有影響所以外交部跟經濟部要來這邊回答問題 你這個"},{"start":6160.526,"end":6174.64,"text":"基礎數據要有嘛要不然我怎麼跟你算這個物流嘛你懂我意思嗎所以經過這樣回推我們就可以計算啊比方說在中國的台商他的AC塑膠油料"},{"start":6177.238,"end":6204.37,"text":"那個價格暴漲的時間大概不遠或者中國也許不會暴漲只要不賣你他就限縮他就說那個中國的名詞叫什麼有序管控有序管控就是不賣就可以斷掉嘛那台灣當然我們知道自己的安全存量可是我們台灣受伊朗的影響小受荷姆茲的影響大那荷姆茲什麼時候可以全線開通牽涉到水雷牽涉到什麼部分這個其實局勢還在演變"},{"start":6205.854,"end":6217.589,"text":"我最後要請教兩個部會那第一個如果荷姆澤海峽封鎖繼續持續下去你們的備案是什麼 經濟部"},{"start":6220.185,"end":6243.611,"text":"我們主要就是要第一個就是看在中東地區部分有沒有辦法走那個類似像鴻海其他的一個那個運輸管道你的能可不可以就不叫備案可以才叫備案有沒有備案目前我們在進行就是這樣方向第一個如果中東就是換他的那個管道另外就是從其他北中東地區那個管道只有阿拉伯沙烏地阿拉伯有嘛他有一個大pipe嘛"},{"start":6244.011,"end":6263.932,"text":"然後直接從波斯灣這邊拉到另外一頭紅海那邊去嘛那紅海那邊雖然葉門那個什麼兄弟會在那邊導彈他火力沒那麼強嘛你們的備案是這個還有另外從其他非中東地區增加貨買量對所以現在最主要都是從非中東地區增加現貨的角度那非中東地區哪些國家美國"},{"start":6265.033,"end":6284.425,"text":"主要是來自於美國 澳洲澳洲是天然氣啦是 美國主要是原油的部分是原油嘛 是它的頁岩油啊什麼的所以這個備案在執行了沒目前已經在執行我們已經掌握到六月份我們本來會從荷姆茲海峽的部分我們找其他中東地區已經確定那個來源都已經確定了那我問你一個關鍵問題假設荷姆茲海峽持續封鎖我們經濟部對於我們油價穩定"},{"start":6292.176,"end":6297.99,"text":"塑膠原料石化液的供應AC 柏油 瀝青等等這些是廢料的供應"},{"start":6299.905,"end":6326.989,"text":"價格的穩定你們認為國人可以樂觀幾個月 未來目前我們還是要看整個國際那個月相關價格我現在已經給你一個前提我們所有的想定在國防部叫兵推你們知道經濟局勢的想定其實台灣政經兵推很久沒做了這個是屬於政經兵推想定一定從最差想定到最好嘛最差就是荷姆斯海峽一直封嘛封個一年好了啦"},{"start":6327.984,"end":6339.998,"text":"那我才問你的備案 備案不叫做看可不可以 備案叫做可以才叫備案所以根據你們現有備案根據最壞局勢想定我們國人不管是企業或者是一般民眾對於油氣"},{"start":6343.266,"end":6359.169,"text":"塑化原料以及最基礎的這種AC鋪面相關的部分對於以現在的價格來看持穩雖然中油可能某些企業我們國營企業會付出代價這個持穩的信心我們可以保持多久"},{"start":6360.01,"end":6388.628,"text":"包委如果剛剛委員隨便所提的它影響成品其實不只是油價它會影響到國內物價所以我會看國內整個經濟的狀況跟物價狀況再來做每週跟每月檢討我現在告訴你就是說你能告訴國人說未來三個月不用擔心我們都有備案了所以最壞的局勢我們價格波動不會超過10% 8% 5%這個才叫做信心喊話你剛才講的我會看局勢然後怎麼樣"},{"start":6390.017,"end":6410.525,"text":"沒有人會覺得局勢好就應該價格高一點的啦沒有這種東西啦所以我就問你對於這樣的信心你們認為期程可以多久因為我們現在量的部分其實很確定所以在量確定的狀況之下我們學總經的需求跟供應就是決定價格嘛你的量你的supply quantity如果確定"},{"start":6411.448,"end":6428.483,"text":"那Demand就是我們國內2300萬人產業這也是固定的所以你的備案其實是在把Supply這個量固定下來那那個Optimal的那個價格就不會波動太厲害嘛所以我的意思多久這個信息要多久"},{"start":6428.863,"end":6454.798,"text":"目前我們掌握量確定來源部分已經掌握到六月底了現在七月部分已經在積極的佈局當中現在四月中我們到六月底之前已經掌握了量也就是供應量到六月底無餘那需求有時候會有囤積啊這個因為心理恐慌心理性的買壓它會有一些波動但至少現有需求的供應量掌握到六月底我這樣理解沒錯嘛那七月份正在談當中嘛"},{"start":6455.578,"end":6483.173,"text":"那備案是來自於繞道鴻海那邊或者是其他國家的供應量這個是用最差狀況來想但如果荷姆斯海峽可以解封那我們大概受影響就低了然後如果荷姆斯海峽解封伊朗被封住那其實對我們來講未必是利空喔搞不好是利多喔因為另外一邊的競爭對手那邊他的油源不見了嘛好那個最後30秒請教外交部"},{"start":6484.977,"end":6505.278,"text":"就你們現在掌握的外交局勢 荷姆斯海峽雖然那個看起來不像停戰的停戰協議還在進行當中那今天明天美國伊朗還要繼續第二輪的談判就你們現在掌握的外交訊息 荷姆斯海峽恢復運輸是可期待或暫時無法期待"},{"start":6506.195,"end":6523.966,"text":"我覺得是說整個來看的時候的發展來說的話是不需要太悲觀但是說他有技術上面有一些困難比如說水雷水雷他們派了艦隊是幾艘軍艦平行的往裡面開又開出來其實那個在測水道啦沒錯然後呢"},{"start":6525.523,"end":6547.708,"text":"伊朗的水雷叫做不負責任水雷,不是智慧水雷現在水雷叫他放了之後,尤其是伊朗的他們的第二次談話,就外交部現在從我們的主要盟友那邊得到的訊息荷姆茲海峽在交戰國下決定開放的結果是可期待或不可期待"},{"start":6549.368,"end":6561.388,"text":"我要說的話是說不需要太過於悲觀為什麼一定要用別的話來回答我的問題呢我想我們還是要審慎的來評估啦因為我們沒有參與到這個談判不能太悲觀但是也不敢太期待"},{"start":6562.954,"end":6590.235,"text":"我想期待還是可以期待啦我想整個大的一個情勢來看因為這很快大概十天內就會先排了上次這個我們不是你如果說可以期待後來先排是開放你就會被封神嘛對不對沒有沒有不敢那你說不能期待或者你講錯了被笑而已也不會怎樣嘛所以我的意思是說這一個你知道經濟裡面除了實質供應量實質需求量以外影響經濟有一個很重要的事"},{"start":6590.996,"end":6616.207,"text":"心理因素心理因素的穩定就不會囤積心理因素的穩定就不會搶購那個價格的波動其實以台灣這麼穩定的國家常常是因為心理因素所以我剛才用這個問題就叫兩個不一個是對外一個對內但是經濟部在物價上一定要把心理因素考慮在內過度的謹慎怕怎麼樣"},{"start":6617.407,"end":6643.549,"text":"其實如果你掌握的量,掌握的來源沒有問題,要讓民眾知道說你現在唱的不好,六月底我都賣掉了唱的也在賺,這個影響很大,好不好所以我希望今天祖密來了,回去讓部長知道,適度的時候心理因素是一個國家經濟物價安全很重要的一個因素,請兩個部會記在心裡面,謝謝是一定,謝謝"},{"start":6647.854,"end":6651.036,"text":"接下來請林楚英委員上台質詢謝主席主席有請我們外交部的陳次長以及我們經濟部的莊主任秘書請陳次長還有莊主任秘書謝謝次長好"},{"start":6673.889,"end":6698.431,"text":"因為時間比較短我想先進入就是巴西的這個問題巴西駐台灣的代表竟然在4月12號的時候直接幫我們定義了台灣是中國的一部分這個時間點是剛好席政會結束的時候結果他的說法竟然是說因為你們內部你們的在野黨主席也這樣說啊那麼基本上這件事情你們去抗議了沒有因為根據維也納的外交公約"},{"start":6700.072,"end":6719.525,"text":"的41條其實是不可以干預我們的內政這樣的一個做法根據國際法是不可以干預而根據維也納的外交公約的話像這樣的事情是可以列為不受歡迎人物但是我個人知道列為不受歡迎人物當然是比較嚴重一點但是選擇在這樣一個時間點真的非常不恰當"},{"start":6720.726,"end":6733.172,"text":"畢竟就算我們跟巴西沒有正常的邦交但是你要派人來當然除了邦交之外還有其他希望能夠兩邊互相推展的部分那麼面對這樣的一個狀況外交部做了什麼樣的一個後續的動作"},{"start":6738.694,"end":6755.54,"text":"報告委員,巴西駐台代表現在正在休假之中,在休假發這樣的一個不當的言論,我們第一時間表達我們的強烈的抗議與關切,也當面的約悟他,讓他知道這個狀況。我們後續還會演繹相關的一個行動,然後矯正這個。但是這個還是必須要在兼顧雙邊的關係以及可能性,外交的合乎這個儀節上面。"},{"start":6766.704,"end":6793.991,"text":"但我想跟委員報告很重要的一個狀況是講說國內的政治領袖對於這個中華民國存在的這個事必須要有一個非常清楚的一個認識不要被外人覺得是有機可乘尤其是中國利用這樣一個機會大肆的宣傳他的這個觀念那我覺得造成這樣一個遺憾其來有致那麼我覺得是說我們一方面那麼對於這個巴西這個最強烈的這個抗議"},{"start":6794.771,"end":6814.09,"text":"想起相應的一個措施二方面也期待國人都能夠對於中華民國台灣跟中華人民共和國互不隸屬這個事實大家能夠有非常清楚的一個掌握好 我知道對於外交部來講啦除了抗議之外手上沒有什麼武器所以我為什麼要請經濟部上來我記得"},{"start":6818.88,"end":6833.718,"text":"過去德國也曾經發聲對我們在外交上面給我們穿小鞋那我們就不輸入晶片我剛剛隨便google了一下巴西是台灣黃豆的第二進口國僅次於美國台灣每年進口230到260噸的大豆"},{"start":6838.343,"end":6859.201,"text":"然後巴西這位代表也曾經講過台灣仰賴的糧食進口當中肉類尤其是牛肉他很希望進口台灣所以本席現在就給你們一個方法台灣為什麼要跟巴西買這麼多的黃豆僅次於美國佔四成請問這個數據經濟部正確嗎"},{"start":6863.59,"end":6885.312,"text":"鮑威這部分比較涉及到農業部相關的數據沒有關係但是以這樣的趨勢正確嗎是第二的大豆進口台灣的國家正確嗎應該那個那個大體是正確的好如果是一個把台灣列為中國一部分"},{"start":6886.485,"end":6896.503,"text":"的一個代表講出這樣的話我們不能有實際上經濟的作為嗎今天的題目當然講的是有關於伊朗的部分但是能不能帶回去研究"},{"start":6897.557,"end":6923.96,"text":"因為我必須要講喔對於外交部來講他們只能抗議除了抗議之外那就是最嚴重把他趕走但是要顧及到巴西跟台灣之間兩國之間的更多的交流的時候我把他趕出去無濟於事但是台灣有他經濟的影響力跟經濟實力如果過去我們晶片可以不用輸出我們現在是不是我們大豆可以轉用其他的國家來買"},{"start":6925.342,"end":6940.263,"text":"這樣的一個方法是不是更有效更有效應因為這個影響到的是台灣有需求但台灣不是只需要跟巴西想本席身為國防外交委員我今天就在這裡請不論是外交部經濟部又或是剛剛提到的農委會"},{"start":6941.405,"end":6963.072,"text":"拿出我們該有的國格以及我們該有的政府的立場我們有武器但是要用就像韓國的事件一樣我們要找出方法來應對不是只是口頭上的抗議因為我當然知道因為台灣在內部關於這個國家認同主權認同的部分有些人願意跪"},{"start":6964.292,"end":6979.304,"text":"但是我們身為執政黨我們身為行政團隊我們身為外交單位我們身為主管機關我們不能跪我們甚至於不能躺平所以在這個部分本席給你提出一個方法你們可以不可以回去研議"},{"start":6980.485,"end":6998.258,"text":"我們當然願意跟委員報告,所以不管在糧食,不管在能源上面,多元化一定是一個必要的一個因素。那麼所以是說,現在我們的重要的邦交國巴拉圭,他也很希望能夠跟我們舊黃豆上面有更多的合作。那我們也現在跟這個農業部密切的一個配合。"},{"start":7001.38,"end":7024.227,"text":"希望能夠在這個議題上面發揮這個總和外交的一個理念讓我們能夠第一方面就能源就這個這個糧食上面能夠有多元化的一個來源二方面是說能夠強化我們跟這個盟邦這個巴拉圭畢竟是我們在南美最重要的一個盟邦也是唯一的一個盟邦所以我們要跟他加強關係"},{"start":7024.907,"end":7050.445,"text":"所以剛才在說到的是說肉品我們現在從巴拉圭進的這個牛肉那麼豬肉現在還在研議這個其他的這個東西這的確都是構成我們的整個糧食韌性的一個部分所以很感謝委員的一個建議那外交部一定是回去不是啦我們不是研議我們現在已經知道有這個狀況我們現在要強化的是跟跨部會的一個合作讓我們這樣的一個vision像委員這樣的一個想法能夠得到實現"},{"start":7051.226,"end":7063.191,"text":"好所以本席希望給你們一個時間點你們多久以內可以召開這樣的一個會議然後可以給我一個具體的方向不要是今天質詢完了然後就當作沒事因為我認為這個就是挑釁既然挑釁我們就有作為我把你繼續留下來我也不會上綱道把你列為不受歡迎為物因為沒有用口會時不會經濟對於這些國家來說才是重點因為本席要特別強調喔中國"},{"start":7077.478,"end":7085.683,"text":"在我們的這個拉美地區的友邦不斷的都是透過滲透以及經濟利誘但是我必須要說中國現在自己的經濟下滑跟我們在經濟的成長的表現完全是只有二分之一他也沒有那麼多的經濟動能所以從巴拉圭、薩爾瓦多再到宏都、拉斯尼加瓜通通吃了悶虧所以在這樣的狀況底下我自己認為你們必須要有積極的動作有動作才能夠"},{"start":7104.853,"end":7111.898,"text":"有效果所以可不可以給我一個時間點我不要來定你們我們這個定期在這個行政院下面都有一個經濟外交工作小組那麼這是一個跨部會的會議我們會把這個議題帶到下一次的這個經濟外交工作小組上面同時外交部當然會繼續的那個表達我們的抗議也尋求一些其他創意的方法來跟他們表達我們對於他們在這個對於我們的主權的論述上面有一個不恰當的一個說法"},{"start":7135.193,"end":7161.228,"text":"好 那麼下一次開會是什麼時候我們下一次這個經濟工作這要看那個行政院的進度不然我們會請那個是不是在進行好 那我希望你們一個月內先給我一個報告給我們外交委會一個報告看看你們到底在這個跨部會當中因為監統委會沒有來那我知道對經濟部來說因為這個部分就是這樣我再一次強調台灣不可以很跨部啦我們自己要站著跟他們做"},{"start":7162.549,"end":7184.778,"text":"交易做談判是爭回我們自己的面子絕對不能躺平好嗎當然那我們一定是這個跟平等待我的其他的國家平等的一個交往互相尊重那也是這是榮邦計畫的一個重要的一個重點也感謝這個委員佩服委員這個非常完整的一個認識也謝謝委員的這個指導我們一定這個遵辦好謝謝"},{"start":7188.952,"end":7193.236,"text":"好 謝謝接下來請沈伯陽委員上台質詢好 謝謝主席 也請次長 謝謝請陳次長"},{"start":7215.632,"end":7230.162,"text":"委員好好 市長好那這個就是這次電子的入境卡那對方看起來是把那個欄位先暫時就是不需要再填上去那我想知道的事情就是說這個整個溝通的過程因為現在看起來是有一個好的結果"},{"start":7230.842,"end":7251.008,"text":"那這整個溝通的過程因為中間我們在詢問的時候呢也不好讓這一個外交部就直接公開說我們就是應該要怎麼處理或什麼之類這個都在外交上可能不是那麼好的事但現在因為告一個段落所以我想知道就是說在因為這個時間算是蠻長的那這個整個溝通的過程當中遇到了什麼阻礙那我們的方法是什麼"},{"start":7252.269,"end":7276.268,"text":"報告委員,那麼在這個過程之中我們也提醒了這個韓方必須要基於兩邊人民密切的往來這個事實上面能夠正視我們國家的一個適當的稱呼所以在這個交涉的過程裡面我們對韓方表達了這樣的一個東西但是我說一個實在的就是說在這個事情上面我們必須要務實以對那麼韓方一樣面對到中國非常大的一個壓力"},{"start":7276.728,"end":7296.156,"text":"所以我們希望在這個事情上面我們心裡面我們知道這樣一個什麼回事但是我們都給予韓方一個空間就是需要一些時間來做一個調整那我們對於這個韓國現在推出的這個相當程度上面這個便利旅客的這個相關的一個務實的一個做法"},{"start":7296.556,"end":7316.706,"text":"我們是感覺到是歡迎這樣的一個做法那麼我們也會持續的滾動檢討我們跟這個韓國的這個關係是不是在其他的方面能夠得到好的一個提升尤其是說我們都是在同樣在這個區域的國家我們跟這個韓國那麼有密切的一個往來同樣的一個安全的一個圖像"},{"start":7317.786,"end":7339.283,"text":"同樣的這個民間的這個不管是教育文化各種方面的一個交流我們跟韓方明確的表達我們重視這個東西我們正視這個東西也希望韓方一樣的來value這樣的一個事情所以我們感覺到很好的是說我們把這樣的一個訴求給韓方那麼他們也在務實的一個考慮之下那麼來做了一個相對應的一個調整韓方"},{"start":7341.645,"end":7357.96,"text":"基於這樣一個行政簡化的考慮來做一個他們的電子路徑卡的調整那我們覺得這是一個非常好的作為我們也歡迎這樣的一個做法那麼我們也了解這個過程之中"},{"start":7358.516,"end":7375.162,"text":"那麼裡面所牽涉到的很多的這個部分我們跟恆邦的這個東西我想這個很多的這個內部的一個種種那也牽涉到兩邊的這個互動交往的一個秘密我們就不詳述但是我們看到是一個正面的一個結果是好的"},{"start":7375.662,"end":7399.633,"text":"對 因為我覺得就是說 這個次長剛剛我覺得講的有一個觀念是很好的就是說呢 我們是會強調我們在跟他們期待不管是文化啦 教育啦 等等之類的一個交流這個交流是持續的 我們不會說因為一個單一事件然後就是說 那其他的交流我們是不是要停止我們現在目前的做法是點對點就是說 他今天做的是跟國民有關的所以我們之前也有放出來說 欸 我們是不是也要做跟國民有關"},{"start":7400.313,"end":7421.352,"text":"那這件事情重要是因為我看到很多人當然可能因為這個事件對韓國產生了一些不滿的情緒那這個情緒呢在外交上面我們不能讓它蔓延到其他的領域因為畢竟整件事情始作俑者一定都還是中國嘛所以說這都是跟中國有關的打壓才會有這樣的一個境界那我們今天如果人民有這樣的一個情緒的時候我們應該把它導引到告訴大家講說"},{"start":7422.433,"end":7446.028,"text":"這是中國的問題,中國在施壓的問題,我們要去找那個源頭他們自己也要丟那個源頭,我們也要所以在這個基礎之下,怎麼去使它改變,這個其實是外交上的藝術當然就慢慢在這邊講這也是為什麼中國在世界上面被視之為一個不良的影響,一個non-influence的原因就是在這個地方"},{"start":7446.508,"end":7474.32,"text":"他常常會把自己的意志強加在這個國際事業上面企圖顛覆那麼以規則為基礎的國際秩序那我想這個在跟中國交往過在這幾年我想世界上主要的國家都越來越有清楚的認識了對那接下來就是說因為丹麥現在我們也是在溝通當中那之前這一個部長在講的時候是說那其實呢他更像是其中幾位就是這個官僚體系裡面的成員的堅持那這件事情的進度呢"},{"start":7475.483,"end":7487.05,"text":"這個相關的一個進度我們在上次取消若干他們駐台的一個特權我們雙方都還在接觸在談的過程裡面那麼詳細我們是不是請我們的歐洲司稍微再做一個簡要的報告"},{"start":7489.845,"end":7509.68,"text":"我們除了取消他的特權禮遇我想我們還會進一步來限縮雙方現在都還在溝通之中我們的一些朋友包括國會議員包括媒體的朋友丹麥媒體的朋友也都非常清楚的表達對台灣的支持我們希望持續的予以擔當壓力"},{"start":7510.501,"end":7523.196,"text":"因為我看丹麥的這些媒體還有人民他們其實對這件事情並不是直接站在丹麥政府的那一方所以我覺得這個可能是一些官僚體系上的一些溝通這個就再請黃市長再多加把勁"},{"start":7527.681,"end":7551.884,"text":"看能不能嘗試把它扭轉過來一定一定我們現在是說這相關的這個東西我們都有這個他說要透過各方面的一個努力那我們知道說丹麥的民意其實是支持台灣的所以是說在這個基礎之上我們要動員各種有我的力量能夠促成他們做一個好的一個改變好謝謝那我接下來要問經濟部是有請這個經濟部的主秘謝謝"},{"start":7558.117,"end":7579.068,"text":"因為時間的因素我就比較快速的問就是說有兩次一次就是在4月8號大概是一個禮拜以前那時候說我們預計4月有4艘郵輪共約8萬騰的原油自鴻海陸續輸出那這件事情跟之前再更早一點是3月多的時候那個時候這個富比士雜誌有說台灣最多是撐個100天左右等等之類的"},{"start":7583.55,"end":7600.109,"text":"因為從3月20一直到剛剛講的這個4月8號然後一直到現在因為這個是每天都在變化那目前最新的狀況評估是如何我們這些我們的不管是我們的存量這些到底有沒有可能如期的到達台灣然後如期到達台灣那有沒有更多目前經濟部的評估如何"},{"start":7600.689,"end":7621.807,"text":"跟委員報告其實二月底中東戰爭開始以來其實進一步我們就馬上成立能源應變小組而且是每天開會因為我們次長每天召集向中油相關的一個機關那我們細到程度包含向委員關心的我們會掌握我們現在從到目前我們已經掌握到六月底我們可以需要本來從那個會經過橫浦之海峽的傳輸有多少"},{"start":7625.35,"end":7654.251,"text":"那因為這些因素他可能沒有辦法順利出口我們替代的來源包含除了剛剛講委員所提到我們從中東地區換其他的出口點之外我們會找其他非中東地區所以我們現在已經完全掌握到六月底我們本來需要經過某座海峽的一個船隻的一個替代方案所以六月底目前所有的來源都已經掌握得非常清楚而且可以穩定供應而且不影響原來的安全存量OK那因為這個戰事到底會怎樣我們都抓不得準嘛"},{"start":7654.631,"end":7673.794,"text":"那即使我們今天像聽起來到六月底這個目前是安全的但因為油價這種事情更多的是預期的心理那一旦有這些預期的心理的影響等等之類的波動我知道我們現在也是每個禮拜都有這個物價這個穩定的這個波動的這個小組要做應對那因為畢竟在台灣會需要用油的"},{"start":7675.055,"end":7689.422,"text":"司機們還有職業駕駛等等之類的所以現在我是在想說就是經濟部這一邊如果是針對一些就是職業駕駛它一定程度的一些補助等等之類的這個目前是不是已經有在規劃"},{"start":7691.008,"end":7707.085,"text":"其實我們已經連續兩週動漲我們的油價了那其實這已經是我們針對油價會對國內剛提到的就是職業價值或甚至對國內整體物價可能影響的一個因應措施因為我們也觀察到其他國家也是擔心他們"},{"start":7709.146,"end":7726.074,"text":"油價對物價影響所以很多國家也都是在掌控他們國內相關油價或是石油原料所衍生的相關產品的一個售價那目前國內的做法其實也會朝穩定國內物價方向來努力對 這個是指供給面嘛就是說供給面這邊的價格我們想要把它穩定嘛"},{"start":7726.494,"end":7747.169,"text":"我講的是另外一方面就是需求的這一方那需求的這一方他有多少的補助或者說他有沒有什麼方案可以搭配這個對他對於未來的這個安全感一定會有加強所以這個部分雖然因為時間的關係可能沒有辦法把它問完但是可能之後我會想再知道就是說我們在需求面這一邊我們對他們的幫助有沒有一些比較制度化的做法"},{"start":7747.523,"end":7748.544,"text":"接下來請王安祥委員上台質詢"},{"start":7782.318,"end":7782.68,"text":"呃 謝謝趙偉豪 有請次長請陳次長"},{"start":7793.635,"end":7822.244,"text":"市長早 早 委員長我想最近中東的情勢其實非常詭譎今天早上好像川普又講了另外又講了不一樣的東西我想所以今天這個其實非常重要來感謝召集我今天要問的比較特殊其實在你們的報告裡面在第九頁也有其實有關於人道援助的部分我想這一次其實中東的形勢"},{"start":7823.264,"end":7839.833,"text":"聯合國他們已經說了他們覺得這個衝突加劇尤其在081那邊已經大概有百萬人流離失所了而且他說這個裡面有37萬名是兒童我想這個應該符合我們現在人道援助的一個標準了吧是"},{"start":7841.991,"end":7860.32,"text":"當然我們對於世界上面所有的地方發生戰災等等的而導致的流亡屍所或是相關人道的狀況我們都一向是願意伸出援手當然是說我們也要尋求適當的管道如何去提供相關的人道協助"},{"start":7860.86,"end":7884.029,"text":"對 所以現在不管是糧食計畫他們都提供了一些糧食的緊急援助甚至連心理支援其實都有另外像醫療當然更不用講了目前大概醫療物資有非常非常多而且支援他們大概幾百位上千位的一些患者接受一些治療然後社會組織還聯合聯合國基金會跟聯合國基金會也運了大概35萬對關鍵的物資過去"},{"start":7888.351,"end":7915.409,"text":"那我也有看了一下這個外交部過去的這個整個預算的部分我這邊手上大概114年度我們在那個科目03的部分其實對於這個部分包含這個所謂國際之關懷救援之重建這個部分其實編了蠻多的預算那我不曉得現在外部有沒有比較具體的一些作為的打算我們請一下那個亞非市是不是能夠救我們那委員是要討論說中東地區的話"},{"start":7919.232,"end":7932.327,"text":"跟委員報告,在中東地區的話我們之前是有提供巴勒斯坦的一些援助主要透過國際的非政府組織通過這個廣告"},{"start":7935.711,"end":7961.064,"text":"那所以說就是有一些人道的援助的話也要看有沒有適當的一些NGO來協助我們再來做對 是這樣因為我會問這一點其實我不曉得外交部應該有掌握到韓國他上個月其實這個禮拜那邊他大概就捐了大概200萬美金那今天早上就昨天晚上的這個新聞他沒有宣布大概透過這個紅十字"},{"start":7963.684,"end":7977.365,"text":"國際委員會來 因為捐了大概五十萬的美金所以因為今天我們的主題也跟我們亞太關係有關係看起來我們的鄰國韓國他們這個動作倒是蠻主動的所以我才問說外部有沒有比較確定機器的一些作為"},{"start":7978.586,"end":8005.874,"text":"那因為這個黎巴嫩當然是最近這個大家關注的是不是有一些人道救援的這個需求那這個部分其實是我們駐約旦代表處那我們也可以來研究對因為主要今天我看到這個標題因為它的標題下說什麼這個南韓宣布外交部特使前往其實這個跟國際關係有一些非常微妙的一些狀況所以我才會問外交部的一個立場"},{"start":8007.555,"end":8022.276,"text":"外部立場是說我們也可以啊我們都隨時都準備而且我們不管是在從這個政府的立場但政府我們外交部還是受限於這個預算的規模啦因為現在整個我們的預算的狀況還是沒辦法"},{"start":8023.477,"end":8047.907,"text":"就還是沿用原來的這個預算嘛那如果說新的預算能夠通過我們可能有比較對這邊應該可以沿用一些嘛因為這個我看起來沿用的部分我們再來研究看看但是另外一個我們會跟這個民間的NGO組織比如說慈濟等等我們知道慈濟在全球都是有非常強烈的所以市長是不是有一些比較明確的也可以提供我們辦公室大概做一個參考沒問題"},{"start":8048.427,"end":8075.243,"text":"好 那另外一個就是昨天 這個應該是拉美斯吧就是昨天的記者會好像有特別提到這件事就是這個洪都拉斯我覺得這個昨天是一個很好的一個訊息感覺說他們當醫院的時候就有在提我覺得這個過去我們的邦交我們2023跟他 三月嘛 跟他斷交不過現在看起來好像機會很好那個市長是不是可以趁這個機會再跟大家說明一下這個狀況 洪都拉斯的部分"},{"start":8077.655,"end":8092.434,"text":"是 謝謝委員那個洪都拉斯最近的狀況是他們的媒體啊是一直在報導就是它南部的這個白蝦產業的崩潰是 好像跟這個中國有關係嘛對不對對 因為建交以後洪都拉斯跟中國建交以後"},{"start":8092.934,"end":8119.414,"text":"他們以為中國會允諾採購替代台灣採購那實際上2025年最後的數據統計我們雖然已經跟他沒有自由貿易協定恢復關稅我們的採購量還是中國的七倍所以中國所有的承諾已經變成一個壞點那我跟施市長就一下我們查到一些資料好像他們的人過去的蠻多人跟過去相較來說好像過去的紅豆大師很多的人過去不曉得是金山還是怎麼樣這個狀況市長應該也有掌握吧"},{"start":8122.774,"end":8141.991,"text":"這樣子這個中國跟一些國家就是我們前五方建交以後他們會大量的開始做傾銷然後利用各種的狀況他有一些商人過去經營所以市長意思是說雖然人都派過去可是看起來他們的經貿雙方就所謂利差的部分好像並沒有獲得很明顯的改善"},{"start":8142.831,"end":8161.643,"text":"對 其實實際上大家都很清楚跟中國的貿易逆差是逐漸擴大是 因為又提到另外一個議會的結構我看起來不管是他們這個國家黨或者是自由黨這樣合起來好像都是多數啦這看起來跟我們這個外交的關係看起來是非常有機會啦不曉得次長跟次長"},{"start":8162.663,"end":8167.89,"text":"這個是不是樂觀看到我們在這個上面我們審慎的樂觀那麼我們也知道說在國會裡面有強烈的一個支持他的這個議長副議長都紛紛的發言表示支持感覺真的是蠻有機會的"},{"start":8178.943,"end":8193.149,"text":"在這個事情上我跟委員報告還是有一個很大的一個障礙就是說因為跟中國建交之後那麼現在的是政府也要去盤點跟了解他們之前的前任的政府在卡士蘇的時候簽下了多少的這個協約"},{"start":8194.79,"end":8218.54,"text":"那這個東西會不會斷交跟中國如果改變邦交之後會不會直接影響衝擊他的經濟當然他跟我們說需要一些時間那我們的外交上面當然是說一直都是特殊的一個處境我們都有非常彈性的一個作為所以一定願意給那些友誼跟我們做朋友的一些時間也提供我們需要的一個協助能夠幫他"},{"start":8219.62,"end":8234.444,"text":"Buffer掉一些這個可能的經濟的所以我們也希望這個不管是國內的我們所有的都對這個事情非常關注我們也希望很快可以聽到一些比較更正向的消息感謝我們一起來期待很快有好消息好 感謝謝謝委員好 謝謝接下來請黃建斌委員上台質詢"},{"start":8254.54,"end":8255.243,"text":"請經濟部請經濟部莊主席"},{"start":8264.659,"end":8287.915,"text":"委員好 主秘好 主秘這一場美伊戰爭從二二八打到現在 本期中也沒有所謂的贏家那戰爭開打後導致國際能源供應短缺 然後也連帶整個石化製品的價格高漲那像前陣子才發生這個台灣發生這個垃圾袋之亂導致很多商家跟民眾的權利變成受害者"},{"start":8288.675,"end":8298.98,"text":"我想從這一次的中東石油危機我們學到一個教訓就是能源取得要多元那能源除了多元外風險要分散這是經濟部自己說的未來的規劃會持續"},{"start":8301.643,"end":8321.701,"text":"會朝這方向嘛對不對可是我們從進一步看到的規劃是未來是擴大對美國能源採購的佔比就是規劃未來對美國採購LNG的比例像目前的10%左右增加到2029要達到25%那顯然我們的管道能源管道的多元就是增加從美國來的這些比例"},{"start":8322.421,"end":8350.461,"text":"那從現在的態勢來看戰爭短時間應該不會結束那如果有極端的情況經濟部說你們會採取三種方式來確保天然氣的供應第一個就是提前的調貨優先從美國、澳洲這些地方來調度天然氣第二個就是亞洲護援就是從我們日本、韓國這些鄰近的國家我們來互相來支援第三個就是買足現貨來補足就是從市場直接採購然後來補足這個缺口那本期想要請教主秘說那這個三個措施"},{"start":8351.221,"end":8362.489,"text":"顯然都是要跟其他國家來購買或者是調度那在這個時間點上本席認為這個價格一定也不便宜那多出來的費用是由誰來承擔會不會轉嫁到民眾的身上"},{"start":8364.358,"end":8373.95,"text":"跟委員報告我想如同委員所理解的其實目前如果我們要增加就是替代本來要從中東進來我們之前的長約的貨的話就是現在市場上買現貨跟提前取貨"},{"start":8381.34,"end":8406.857,"text":"那現在市場上因為從二月底戰爭以來整個布蘭特園油已經上漲了71%那杜拜油已經上漲77%所以國際的現貨價格其實也都持續在上漲更不用講說它運費還有保險費其實也都在上漲所以目前我們現貨取得的價格一定會比以前我們常越來的高那目前我們勢必在整個那個國內的一個售價部分就造成一定的壓力"},{"start":8407.737,"end":8422.958,"text":"那從2月底到目前我們國內油價才漲17%所以相較之前的國際能源價格其實我們那個溢低整個油價漲幅非常多那我們一直對外宣布的就是這完全的價差都是靠中油來吸收所以目前中油已經吸收了107億元"},{"start":8426.994,"end":8454.769,"text":"所以這些未來會轉嫁到民眾的身上嗎我們現在主要是採三個方向第一個希望政府的預算可以來撥補來協助中油但另外就是我們會協助中油來做增資或是融資來減輕他的那個財政壓力所以這樣支持之下我們希望能夠再兼顧整個國內物價因為能源價格勢必我們也擔心他對國內物價造成一定的一個影響所以我們會考慮這些因素然後再做試探"},{"start":8454.889,"end":8463.556,"text":"主委剛好提到撥補中油這件事情那其實民眾也好奇想要了解說那中油我們政府會補貼那如果民營企業像台塑那我們也會補貼嗎"},{"start":8465.047,"end":8492.858,"text":"跟委員報 其實目前台塑事實上因為它取得原油價格的來源跟取得原油的價格跟來源部分都受到影響所以其實適度它有做一些影響它有適度做一些減產不過我們因為要穩定國內供應部分我們一直在希望台塑以減少外銷跟穩定國內的需求為主那至於針對台塑的部分呢我想我們在這段時間完之後我們會再討論跟"},{"start":8494.619,"end":8509.723,"text":"台塑之間所以目前是沒有補台塑之外我們是沒有補貼的其實目前中油部分也都還沒有補因為剛講的是那個我們未來希望能夠執行的方向也希望立法院這邊能夠支持我們對中油的協助措施"},{"start":8510.253,"end":8511.815,"text":"這周開始就會提供平價垃圾袋"},{"start":8528.553,"end":8551.633,"text":"是吧那本期這邊強調說台東縣是偏鄉然後又是整個銷售的末端那不要因為我們的需求量較其他的縣市少而被忽略也希望這部分能夠供應到台東縣這樣的需求是 謝謝委員提醒我想每個縣市我們都會絕對讓民眾可以買到平價的那個垃圾袋好 謝謝謝謝主秘 接下來我們請我們的外交部次長請陳次長"},{"start":8557.777,"end":8574.887,"text":"國元好市長好市長我們總統府宣布4月22到4月26我們要率團總統要率團拜訪我們的友邦史瓦帝尼那史瓦帝尼是中國民國在非洲唯一的邦交國是從1968年建交到現在對我們非常的忠貞跟忠誠"},{"start":8576.208,"end":8595.863,"text":"58年所以這個本席非常支持那過去我們陳水扁執政時期有推動這個叫新洋專案就透過拜訪中南美洲啊一些非洲友邦國家順便繞道去美國那因為當時的兩岸的環境跟台美關係那所以那時候就一直不斷的被調整"},{"start":8596.644,"end":8611.405,"text":"整個行程嘛那直到最後一天才說我讓你經過然後再不就是夏威夷吧和阿拉斯加只能中途加油這樣子對不對那有沒有可能我們這一次的因為這一次"},{"start":8613.588,"end":8628.253,"text":"總統出訪因為說要避免中東的戰火的危險所以我們這次才叫保守直航的方式那有沒有可能因為外面很關心說有沒有可能會有一些意外的驚喜比如說在第三地忽然間停下來或見了什麼人有沒有可能是這樣子"},{"start":8629.417,"end":8659.177,"text":"目前就我們的了解並沒有這樣的一個規劃我們覺得是說我們重視非洲這個最重要的一個友邦所以我們是說用直航的一個直飛的一個方式是表達我們的總統也公務繁忙那麼能夠在考量種種的權衡之下我們採取直航直飛的一個方式來做是一個最恰當同時他們直飛差不多是13個小時左右那麼這樣也是比較便利舒適的一個方式"},{"start":8659.497,"end":8688.017,"text":"市長因為像前陣子我們的卓院長忽然間在日本出現看棒球經典賽那時候其實很多的學者跟一些委員都非常的讚賞說是重大的台日重大的這個突破因為1972年斷交之後沒有一個行政院長踏上日本的國土所以這個東西我們期待說會不會有這樣的一個意外的佈局就更彈性的方式意外剛好看到這些東西讓台灣的國際在我們的外交在國際上又有一個新的突破"},{"start":8688.877,"end":8700.742,"text":"這樣不可能嗎?我想我們還是循序漸進,穩紮穩打建立在良好的基礎上面,讓他們彼此了解這次總統出訪任務單純,我們就是要去慶賀兩國的友誼同時也是慶賀死亡58歲的雙58非常重要的一個狀況,所以我們會"},{"start":8712.248,"end":8731.865,"text":"讓他的任務更加的這個專一同時在總統在這個使國有相當多的行程所以是說目前就我們的了解並沒有什麼其他的額外的一個規劃那麼當然這個具體的一個行程到時候有什麼樣的一個狀況還是由總統府來做這個對外做宣布"},{"start":8733.366,"end":8754.256,"text":"市長有講到這次去世主要是他登記40年嘛對不對40週年跟他58歲的滑蛋那同時我們應該也要從本席了解是要推動的戰略要信念戰略的除油草提升斯瓦帝里的能力源安全那跟本席從經濟部國貿局的資料來看斯瓦帝蘭2023年全國失業率達到34.5%其中35歲以下人口佔市國人口約7成"},{"start":8762.34,"end":8787.666,"text":"那青年失業的問題已經造成嚴重的社會問題通貨膨脹在4%以上顯然看來最近史瓦帝蘭的經濟情況並不是很好也沒有預期這樣那市長我們跟他建交也超過也將近60年60年時間我們其實也大量拖不少的資源跟人力過去那以你來看那這60年這樣子他這樣的表現算是好嗎他的國家發展"},{"start":8788.266,"end":8807.484,"text":"當然美國在面對它的一個挑戰那麼斯瓦帝尼他身處在這個南北的旁邊有一個一定的磁吸的效應但總的來說也反映今天這個非洲的一個發展它面對到的挑戰以及它可能存在的一個機會社會交部的作為著重在於是說把這個機會能夠活化實現非常年輕的人口"},{"start":8808.064,"end":8826.133,"text":"那麼失業率很高所以我們是希望能夠讓我們的台商也看到在這個地方是可以作為深耕非洲市場的一個跳板一個機會所以我們在這個地方有一個這個台灣這個創新工業園區這次總統去也會去巡視那麼也做剪彩"},{"start":8828.171,"end":8841.457,"text":"在推動之中,我們這個包括戰備儲備等等的東西我們的相信就是說,不是只是給他援助而是能夠讓他加入到全球的經濟裡面對,那對他也要有幫助吧"},{"start":8845.779,"end":8868.954,"text":"有投資就業另外是說對於他的產的這個一些特殊的這個農產品我們也安排透過我們現在新成立的這個榮邦經貿辦公室要來拓展他的一個產品那總的來說我們是提供一個比較完整的一個一個一個協助的一個方案就是像這個常常會有外面的話說這個給人魚吃不如獸人魚"},{"start":8870.515,"end":8888.684,"text":"那我們這個想法就是說,我們要把這個產業帶去,把工作帶過去,把工作的階級帶過去,穩定他的社會。市長,本席會這樣問就是,其實我們唯一一個在非洲的邦交國,我們都希望他能夠因為我們的幫助而強大,藉由這個基地然後拓展我們在非洲的影響力,對不對?應該是這樣吧?是,沒錯。"},{"start":8890.185,"end":8913.221,"text":"那但是我們看到這六十年來其實他的狀況並不是很好這部分是不是我們也要來思考一下關於的話當然還未到公衛的一個挑戰所以這也是我們在醫療外交上面要去協助的地方這邊有比較大的一些患病的人口在這個事情上面我們也請了幾家醫院特別根據這個死國的一個需要設計他們公衛的一個相關的計畫"},{"start":8914.662,"end":8929.331,"text":"謝謝市長 我後面再補充就是說我們剛才提到外交的方式其實本席還建議其實還有一個地方我們可以去參訪就是梵蒂岡所以我們跟梵蒂岡是有正式建交的嘛對不對是 這我們歐洲唯一的一個邦交國對 而且台灣的天主教徒多耶"},{"start":8929.591,"end":8944.837,"text":"很多像我們的前行政院長他就是天主教徒我們如果說會擔心跟中國的關係我們可以透過更彈性的方式比如說宗教的方式或是參訪的方式去建立我想這個都是有正面幫助"},{"start":8945.757,"end":8960.274,"text":"我們台東縣也很多的天主教徒我想這樣子的方式 透過不同的方式我想外交本來就是不容易推動可以更彈性我們都可以不小心在棒球場出現有沒有可能還有其他方式可以讓更多看到台灣這個是我們可以努力的"},{"start":8960.834,"end":8986.193,"text":"我們當然一定都努力跟各種各樣就是現在台灣的一個處境我不能夠說台灣現在處境非常的困難但的確是有挑戰我們會尋求所有的一個方法來有一些新的一個好的一個發展那鞏固我們在國際的一個參與能夠成為一個國際負責任的議員我想這個越來越能夠讓世界看到也謝謝委員的這個指導我們一定會遵辦好 謝謝市長 謝謝 謝謝主席好 謝謝"},{"start":8990.646,"end":9002.615,"text":"接下來請許曉鑫委員上台質詢謝謝主席我們是不是有請陳次長請陳次長好"},{"start":9012.252,"end":9027.991,"text":"今天這個又有出現關於這個跟洪都拉斯是否要復交的新聞那我想先請教一下我們提到要與洪都拉斯復交這樣的一個開始是大概從什麼時候開始有這樣的進行這樣的一個討論"},{"start":9029.232,"end":9057.352,"text":"從他這個紅國去年這個選舉主要的那個時候的在野黨都提出了要跟台灣復交那這也是說他從2023年跟這個無與我斷交跟這個中華人民共和國建交以來那麼其實他們的產業並沒有得到提升是的我們都知道但是我們是要問說那既然他們當初做出這樣子的主張那我們也有深深的期待能夠有復交等於說回復一個邦交國"},{"start":9058.092,"end":9078.54,"text":"那為什麼其實到現在都已經四月了我們沒有看到確實的進度只看到新聞媒體上面不斷的有相關的放話不是說放話 我跟委員報告我跟你們講放話的意思就是說你們沒有具名是誰講的那就我就這麼說好不好那個我跟委員報告 那麼因為雖然跟這個紅國跟這個中國建交時間不長"},{"start":9083.222,"end":9108.392,"text":"但是現在我們得到的一個訊息是紅國並不完全了解前任的政府跟中國簽下了多少的相關的一些協議其實我很擔心帥兒跟中國斷交跟我們復交會不會產生一些很大的他們比較謹慎我們也尊重所以我們現在逐步的來考量看看他們能夠得到相關的一個訊息"},{"start":9108.712,"end":9128.221,"text":"副交部的今天新聞寫說認為他們跟台灣復交的步驟會很謹慎是指的是洪都拉斯方面會很謹慎是嗎洪都拉斯方面會推轉得很謹慎就主要還是擔心過去前任政府所留下來的他們說的地雷"},{"start":9128.821,"end":9151.42,"text":"那我們在這個事情上面當然也會跟他一起來開神佈所以您的意思是就您現在目前的掌握只要再將前一任政府跟中國大陸這邊他們所簽下的一些相關的協議那有了初步的判斷整理之後他們就會遂行跟中華民國復交是嗎"},{"start":9151.88,"end":9161.103,"text":"現在它的盤點啦,我覺得是說就我們現在得到的一個訊息是說他們請我們現在先這個稍安勿躁,實現他們的,我覺得機率不高耶,他們這個是一個競選的時候的承諾"},{"start":9167.965,"end":9188.808,"text":"對啊 那很多人競選程度也都沒做到啊賴清德總統很多競選程度也都沒做到啊我們台灣也都是這樣子啊那洪都拉斯他們也是自己國家自己民情我也不一定就是說我們從我們國家的現實主義的利益來說我們也不可能就是說全然相信別人跟我們講的就一定是真的吧如果總是要這麼天真的話那我們的外交該怎麼樣前進呢"},{"start":9190.089,"end":9218.332,"text":"是我是說我們有沒有評估說他們今天的這些說法有可能是托詞如果你認為不是托詞的話那你的理由跟依據又是什麼沒有那個我們持續有在雙方互動溝通啦同時我們還有很多的其他的這個國家也在協助我們能夠這個往這個台紅赴交的方向很多國家是像什麼樣的國家比如我們的重要的友邦這個美國他們在整個的國家戰略裡面提到他們的所謂的西半球的這個優先"},{"start":9219.733,"end":9239.386,"text":"但事情上面是說我們在很多的時候跟這個美國有良好的互動溝通那我們也看到是說這個紅國的這個主要的政治領導人當他們有機會跟美國接觸的時候那他們現在跟中國大陸的這個交往是如何的是有暫停掉了還是說其實實際上還是交往非常密切"},{"start":9240.426,"end":9245.312,"text":"我請一下我們的韓司長稍微細節上面再跟委員報告一下他是駐中國的大使1月26號跟前政府就一起辭職了到現在他還沒有任命"},{"start":9256.525,"end":9281.154,"text":"所以現在目前沒有任命大使好 那我了解了那我們也對這個事情是有期待的那希望呢當然對方有要謹慎的地方我們都可以理解但是希望我們能夠恢復一個邦交國這對中華民國來說是相當重要的那為什麼我剛剛會講到就是說我們對於其他國家的說法必須要很謹慎而且要做多方面的考量主要跟像我們像是CPTPP也是一樣的"},{"start":9282.094,"end":9305.372,"text":"我們都知道政府在對外宣示爭取加入CPTPP這件事情實際上在執行層次上面是消極是敷衍的也沒有具體的時程跟規劃所以說其實我們看到3月的時候卓榮泰院長他講到就是說針對CPTPP要重新盤點然後設定目標跟時間表要由經濟部跟外交部來分工推進"},{"start":9306.172,"end":9312.995,"text":"可是從那時候到現在請問一下我們有沒有檢討一下那到底要怎麼樣去改進啊"},{"start":9314.254,"end":9324.857,"text":"報告委員在CPTPP上面我去年因為擔任相關的主管業務我也拜訪了好幾個國家遊說我們的陸會案的確國際有一些現實以我們現在的經貿大國來說我也希望能夠塑造一個有我的氣氛請問一下為什麼你看起來很積極為什麼我們的經貿當初的談判我們就不談特別的名字了"},{"start":9343.843,"end":9370.389,"text":"那就是說有參與到這個事情裡面的同仁他們認為說是非常消極的他的說法看起來跟你是差異很大這個我們尊重當事人的感覺啦但就外交部來說全力以赴我去了拜訪了英國 拜訪了澳洲 拜訪了加拿大英國是新加入的我除了傳達我們要加入的這個意願那同時也跟他討論是說到底我們遇到的困難在哪裡"},{"start":9371.209,"end":9385.18,"text":"我們也希望從英國那邊學到是說怎麼樣是能夠加入他準備哪一些的你跟他學沒有用啊我們這個狀況差很多啊去年部長在這個委員會我就問過他那時候部長他講到說我們已經跟12個會員國裡面的其中一個會員國進行實質的討論那請問目前有增加嗎"},{"start":9394.227,"end":9415.78,"text":"實質討論喔 不是說是敗會實質討論要讓人家讓我們推進到CPTPP的部分從去年11月的時候林佳龍部長他講說是一個那到現在請問增加到幾個人呢?那麼就具體的數字喔 我想是說我們還是在努力之中啦對 那當初林佳龍部長可以告訴我是一個那現在為什麼不能講啦?"},{"start":9416.65,"end":9441.697,"text":"現在沒有不能講 這還是一個的意思因為去年的時候是澳洲擔任主席所以我特別去澳洲一趟但是去年很可惜到我們有提出陸會的一個方法的新的訴求包括說能夠成立這個工作小組部長都有跟我說 沒有得到正面的回應"},{"start":9443.477,"end":9465.224,"text":"現在狀況也是說CPTPP每次換一個輪值的主席國的時候呢我們都會覺得我們有突破的機會那都有機會讓這個CPTPP的部長會議推動成立剛剛您說的台灣的入會小組可是呢如果沒有成立成功的話那就又變成是好那這個有現實上面的考量的壓力等等的那今年我們預計的進展是什麼"},{"start":9466.744,"end":9489.472,"text":"那今年的主席國是輪到了這個越南嘛那我們跟越南有相當密切的這個商貿的關係啦我們希望在這個基礎上面那麼能夠雙方有好的一個對話你們不能每年都這樣講因為你們每年都告訴我們說我們今年跟澳洲也很好我們去年跟澳洲也很好我們今年跟越南也很好可是最後一整年下來是徒勞無功的那當然就會有這個"},{"start":9492.073,"end":9513.263,"text":"這個經貿這邊辦公室的人他們覺得就好像是很無所作為等等但是他的說法我尊重他的評論但我的意思是說今年是越南好來輪值所以可不可以給我一個很具體的目標我們今年大概要做什麼方向是什麼時程是什麼預計能夠達到什麼樣的一個目標把這個部分我們簡要的做一個說明好嗎"},{"start":9513.663,"end":9542.072,"text":"好 很快的說明就是說我們現在還是一樣跟一樣延續去年我們希望採取一個陸會申請的新的方式那去年是我們第一次提出來對 但你第一次提出來的時候你去年有跟越南就是因為越南它還是這個會員股嘛你們有跟越南討論過嗎就在它還不是輪值主席國的時候所有的對外管束我們都有對 那我的意思是說你去年雖然它不是輪值主席國但你有跟他們交換過這樣的意見的時候對方對於這件事情的支持程度是如何的"},{"start":9542.312,"end":9565.785,"text":"我想他們都是在重申奧克蘭三原則包括有良好的紀錄那今年你繼續講今年今年的話我們就是在這個推動上面我們希望這個入會的現在就是說在沒有人反對而不是說已經大家都同意沒有人反對的情況下對於這些入會申請國是不是就能夠開始成立一個入會工作小組這不是已經入會了"},{"start":9567.426,"end":9594.239,"text":"這個我就在你剛剛講過了因為我們時間很有限那你可不可以告訴我說這個爭取那大概會在什麼時候有眉目或是確認說今年可能沒機會我不能說今年沒有機會啦我說時程點因為你總是會有節點吧做任何事情是會有節點啊所以你不能聽到你說年底召開年底之前的時候我們就會全力以赴那麼對於越南對於其他的國家我們進行遊說"},{"start":9595.6,"end":9620.299,"text":"那尤其對新加入的這些國家,包括英國,包括加拿大加拿大不是最近加入,但是說這些國家有我的國家,我們會盡力盡力我最少是說,這個入會過程的這個方法是不是能夠大家同意就是在沒有會員國明確反應,反對,而且提出反對的理由的時候那麼以他們都說要再繼續"},{"start":9621.34,"end":9637.175,"text":"擴張CPTPP爭取更多的會員國在這個前提之下至少能夠讓我們成立陸會工作小組甚至我都同意我也很支持但因為從去年11月說有跟一個國家討論到現在那其實是一樣的"},{"start":9637.836,"end":9656.845,"text":"那所以我想要問一下就是說你們大概在今年度因為現在也已經四月了快要到下半年了你們有什麼時候要進入到跟第二個國家進到實質的討論我很實際我這個人很現實主義的很實際跟你討論就第二個就好了什麼時候可以進到跟第二個國家進行到實質的磋商啊"},{"start":9657.185,"end":9681.972,"text":"那我再跟委員報告說我們全力以赴啦但是我們希望有像您所說的第二個國家有一個比較正式的那你總是你要有目標跟方向跟大概知道說我希望爭取哪一個做第二個實質的國家的談判呢如果你都說大海撈針的那到年底了我要問你一樣的明年我要問你一樣的那這不就永遠遙遙無期了嗎好不好明年一定有不一樣的做但是說就今年在爭取新的國家來支持我們喔那麼我們覺得當然說"},{"start":9684.313,"end":9698.197,"text":"也就是這幾個國家我們現在不好就是說在區變但我們就所有的門我們都會敲那請你們繼續努力謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝徐教興委員次長請回下一位請馬文君召回諮詢好謝謝主席麻煩請外交部次長以及經濟部莊主密謝謝陳次長莊主密有請"},{"start":9721.284,"end":9731.052,"text":"市長好主秘好今天我們整個上午下來有很多委員關切的我們今天特別要訂定這個議程很重要的其實他對我們已經造成明顯的影響而且這個戰爭其實發生在距離我們很遠的地方可是他對我們造成的衝擊也非常的大所以今天包括你們交的報告非常遲的狀況才拿出來還包括剛剛不管"},{"start":9747.606,"end":9768.478,"text":"朝野的委員都認為我們的報告裡面的內容其實非常的簡單而且沒有針對我們發生的問題去做回應或者去做規劃簡單來說尤其剛剛也有委員去關切的他說在野黨不支持補助台電這個部分不要掐頭去尾然後只挑一部分講"},{"start":9769.779,"end":9797.911,"text":"在野黨不是不贊成政府去補助台電而是錯誤的政策造成台電嚴重的虧損而且影響人民的利益這是不能被接受的當你還沒有修正這個部分的時候在野黨沒有理由無條件的去支持這樣子的一個補助因為過去已經補助好幾千億了你接下來的破口還非常的多如果像這樣子持續下去因為我們可以看得到有很多的能源的"},{"start":9799.232,"end":9804.835,"text":"建制其實就不是能夠符合我們國家整體發展的不管你是太陽光電也好你是風力發電也好或者其他的發電尤其像這一次我們面臨到這麼大的衝擊很重要的一個是我們現在的執政黨他把天然氣的佔比他的發電佔比拉高到幾乎50%這樣的一個配比這是我們自己沒有生產的這樣子的一個來源"},{"start":9827.728,"end":9844.458,"text":"所以我們拉那麼高的時候現在就面臨這樣的危險了現在才戰事才發生幾天而已四十幾天你剛剛提到光是一個中友就已經補助一百多億了如果戰爭持續下去怎麼辦我們還漲可以多久我們動漲可以多久"},{"start":9848.021,"end":9871.057,"text":"謝謝委員提醒我想那個國家能源政策其實主要就是要去促進能源多元化來提高能源韌性多元化也要你的能力所及或者對我們比較有利的條件啊因為你現在又走回頭路了現在又要發展核電了這個真的嚴重的刺打嘴巴我們先姑且不談這一塊我現在要講的是當發生現在的戰爭到目前為止因為那個"},{"start":9874.96,"end":9897.84,"text":"看不到你們所有相關的規劃包括外交部包括經濟部國發會今天也到我們希望在這一個部分我們要怎麼樣去掌握雖然你說他還在改變當中我們就是知道他還在改變連巴基斯坦他們安排的這樣子的一個和談其實都已經破局了所以我們不能期待說他到底會什麼時候結束我們不知道剛剛聽你們"},{"start":9899.722,"end":9903.565,"text":"的口氣是很樂觀可是我們不這麼認為因為川普總統他在競選的時候他的口號說他當選然後上任以後24小時之內就要結束二無戰爭現在過了多久他沒有辦法結束所以已經不是第一強國包括美國能夠去左右這一局了還包括美國這一次對於整體的美伊戰爭"},{"start":9924.54,"end":9939.912,"text":"像這樣子他們認為可以像委內瑞拉一樣可能可以速戰速決斬首以後可以馬上就獲取勝利然後得到他們想要的可是顯然也不是而且造成全世界的衝擊這麼大我們要的是你經濟部必須要做一個通盤的規劃它不是能源而已能源牽動所有的物價上漲牽動我們所有整體經濟的發展所以如果到現在目前為止你們"},{"start":9951.201,"end":9958.869,"text":"你們規劃你們推測因為經濟部跟外交部是聯動的嘛你們都有接受很多的國際的資訊你們是樂觀的看待戰事會很快的結束嗎"},{"start":9963.474,"end":9992.254,"text":"包委員其實針對那個戰爭不確定性其實經濟部非常小心謹慎我們現在主要就是要確保我們的量是充足的所以剛剛也特別報告我們到6月底多久算充足因為你們說到6月底是準備好了嘛如果他的戰爭持續延續呢因為就川普總統他自己的判斷至少可能到11月可能將油價其實都還是會攀升的那像這樣子你們怎麼因應我們在報告裡面看不到"},{"start":9993.794,"end":10020.82,"text":"因為6月份我們已經確定我們的量所以我們現在已經開始展開7月份的佈局那因為這個其實如同剛剛講的它的不確定性很高我們也擔心說如果你佈局得太遠到時候你可能採購太多那個那個單價偏高的一個優元所以這個我們也是根據其他我想其他國家有命令到同樣狀況所以我們是小心謹慎每天每週的去往後推演我們未來可能的一個情境然後做最好的一個準備"},{"start":10021.5,"end":10038.435,"text":"因為你看起來的準備我們不曉得因為你現在的來源比如說像天然氣像石油你們當然有一些其他的替代的來源果可是它如果持續增加因為所有的它都上漲了甚至高達4成以上雖然你現在用動漲或緩漲的手段在壓制可是它在市場國際市場上它已經漲了4成那像這樣子你以後如果要從別的國家去跟人家買"},{"start":10048.704,"end":10051.786,"text":"就像你現在有一些物資如果缺了為什麼人家會搶很多在搶物資的時候他的那個就水漲船高我們現在擔心的是這些啊當你七月八月九月十月甚至到明年的時候你要跟其他國家採購你會面臨更高的價格這個部分你們都做了妥善的因應了嗎"},{"start":10069.379,"end":10077.023,"text":"謝偉提醒這塊都在我們掌握之內因為我們要注意到不適宜的交易狀況如果你們有掌握那表示你們有規劃那這具體的規劃在會後我們希望在一個禮拜之內把這個相關的規劃提供給我們委員會來做參考"},{"start":10084.147,"end":10087.949,"text":"是 可是剛剛委員報因為這個規劃都是動態來調整的所以我們會根據委員指定的日期我們提供最新的狀況不過這個狀況因為它可能瞬息萬變所以跟委員報是所以指定的日期沒有關係我們現在就是說因為你有短中長期像俄羅戰爭一打打了好幾年"},{"start":10103.038,"end":10107.96,"text":"到四年了你都還停不下來那它我們如果萬一面臨到這個封鎖它拉長時間對我們會什麼樣的影響那你對其他國家採購的時候會面臨什麼樣的影響包括我們的航運還有包括我們的海運包括我們所有的運輸其實在在都會影響這些對我們經濟整體的衝擊我們要的是具體的規劃跟你在能源上面如果產生這樣的空隙的時候你們怎麼做我們要的是這樣子的一個規劃報告"},{"start":10132.887,"end":10150.86,"text":"我們就提供給委員目前我們最新穩定能源供應的一個方案好那就這些部分我們希望可以儘速提供因為經濟部因為剛剛我們先請教一下那個外交部市長剛剛有委員提到這一次在野黨"},{"start":10152.461,"end":10154.984,"text":"所以國民黨的主席這一次的正席會剛剛你有提到說在野黨應該不要去製造像有一些在政治上或者國際其他國家對我們有產生誤解你所謂的誤解是什麼"},{"start":10170.202,"end":10185.65,"text":"沒有我是說最重要的東西這個事實就是說中華民國台灣跟中華人民共和國互不隸屬這個事實我希望這個在政協會的時候有誤導什麼嗎沒有我是說能夠再重申能夠再表達清楚那麼我們都知道"},{"start":10187.051,"end":10194.678,"text":"做什麼政府最有條件讓全世界知道我們的立場這一次的政協會他很重要的是在野黨去突破現在兩岸可能在區域緊張態勢這麼嚴重然後這麼惡化的情況之下他走出一條路現在有很多他們甚至在兩岸的"},{"start":10208.229,"end":10210.392,"text":"包括經濟部也在這裡最沒有條件去講這些什麼在經濟上面很多的關稅美國這一次他就是因為他的關稅還有他的軍事行動受到盟國有一些質疑"},{"start":10224.711,"end":10242.832,"text":"所以他沒有辦法獲得所有全面的支持有些他都是有條件的支持可是在軍事上面大家都避免戰事的擴張所以很多其實都是避免的就這個部分我們也要很具體的去讓大家很清楚所以外交部的立場不要再去當"},{"start":10244.033,"end":10257.724,"text":"那個像陸委會的那種角色外交部你的視野你的角色看的是國際今天我們在CPTPP我們在很多新南向新南向我們花了那麼多錢到現在我們看不出任何的成果美國現在對我們要求這才叫貴"},{"start":10261.267,"end":10279.193,"text":"我們所有的包括我們的豬牛還甚至進了犬學還有很多我們的自己的規則通通要依照人家的標準去依循這才叫貴我們把所有最重要的關鍵的一個能量"},{"start":10280.373,"end":10282.494,"text":"把他送出國然後還要把整個產業鏈、供應鏈全部挪出去以後我們還要花五千億美元這樣高額的這個金錢雖然現在他們已經被判違法我剛剛看到新聞好像川普總統也答應要退還"},{"start":10297.984,"end":10302.87,"text":"要退還這樣子的那之前的關稅稍微看了一下所以就這個部分當我們什麼都配合的情況之下你們完全沒有理由去指責在野黨而且說三道四因為他們拿到的是現在執政黨做不到的"},{"start":10315.666,"end":10320.888,"text":"我們現在的人民苦哈哈 所有過去很多的店家關的關 倒的倒 很多的經濟現在變得很蕭條我們要的是政府能夠開出一條路 不管你是哪一條路我們也支持CPTPP啊 我們也支持新南向啊 我們也支持你跟美國談最好的關稅的配合啊"},{"start":10337.575,"end":10343.158,"text":"可是我們不是我們付出了那麼多還包括國防的預算都被框進經濟的談判裡面是非常離譜的這才叫貴所以如果我們有肩膀如果我們要維持我們的風骨維持我們一個主權國家的一個"},{"start":10355.578,"end":10368.834,"text":"最好的一個表達就是在任何時候我們都必須要很大聲的去捍衛我們國家的利益還有人民的利益這個才是我們要做的所以我們希望外交部或者甚至像經濟部如果相關的影響要比較具體的讓我們知道外交部不要把自己的立場做小了"},{"start":10374.321,"end":10379.804,"text":"外交部其實面對的是全世界的各國不是只有邦交國我們現在所有包括澳洲總理因為這一次的美伊戰爭他跑了很多的國家他去拜訪日本、新加坡、汶萊、馬來西亞他要求大家一起跟他合作唯獨沒有找過台灣"},{"start":10393.712,"end":10401.997,"text":"我們從這一次的戰爭我們可以看到其實台灣是被孤立的如果繼續這樣下去這個是我們比較擔憂的所以我們希望外交部要拿出你們的國際視野怎麼樣在務實面上面去開拓我們自己的道路包括兩岸的關係兩岸的關係對我們來說非常重要連歐洲現在所有領導人你們應該有掌握訊息啊有哪些國家去見習近平你們應該非常清楚啊"},{"start":10422.188,"end":10426.99,"text":"包括歐洲國家為什麼以前跟美國這麼友好他們現在為什麼紛紛跑去包括美國總統川普他都一直要見習近平為什麼我們不可以為什麼我們做不到為什麼我們不要他如果對我們好對我們的和平"},{"start":10438.996,"end":10441.938,"text":"是有幫助的為什麼我們要捨棄這一條路所以這一條今天我們的報告其實我們並不是很滿意我們所有相關單位所提出的內容那我們也希望在後面應該補充的迅速補充資料好不好是好 謝謝好 謝謝馬文君召委 次長主任請為"},{"start":10472.663,"end":10475.267,"text":"接下來請劉許廷委員上台質詢謝謝主席 則外交部陳次長有請有請陳次長"},{"start":10489.657,"end":10504.235,"text":"市長午安今天早上剛好開始開會的時候本席也在馬昭偉詢問有關於報告這次比較晚交這件事情的時候我聽到你在台下有講你說因為局勢變化瞬息萬變"},{"start":10505.456,"end":10522.772,"text":"因為瞬息萬變所以要更新最新的資訊所以稍微晚了一點交不過我看你這個內容報告好像沒有更新到最新的程序你是不是要清楚說明一下因為我們今天討論的當然就是這個中東的戰況對於區域的這個政經情勢的一些影響嘛"},{"start":10523.473,"end":10539.715,"text":"那你的報告裡面寫了很多啊這包含當然從衝突的開始一路寫到和談等等但是好像就到那裡為止不過大家都很清楚嘛這個現在荷姆斯海峽最新的狀況是美國宣布要封鎖嘛可是我看你在整本報告裡面都隻字未提啊"},{"start":10540.416,"end":10555.835,"text":"如果照你台下所講的你說我為了要更新到最新的情況所以我要晚一點交可是你的報告裡沒有寫到最新的情況我是覺得這樣有點奇怪啦沒關係我給你補充說明的機會你就在這裡跟大家報告一下最新的情勢是什麼然後這樣子的一個情勢對於這個總體的內容跟影響請檢要報告請回答"},{"start":10560.641,"end":10575.04,"text":"就核母制海峽情勢因為這個事關我們的能源安全跟其他的相關的整個地緣政治的一個狀況那麼現在新的狀況說其實美國宣布所謂的封鎖這個核母制海峽其實這是一個比較比較籠統的一個說法"},{"start":10577.703,"end":10594.338,"text":"根據美國中央軍區的一個說法其實是對於伊朗的延案進行的登靈檢查的相關的一個做法那麼現在即使是在這樣一個宣布之後那我們根據這個相關的顯示仍然是有少數的船隻有進出"},{"start":10594.778,"end":10622.994,"text":"那大概現在新的狀況是這個樣子所以是說你可以說是說開始兩邊都有一些動作但是大家都有體會到這個赫姆斯海峽對於全世界全球經濟的重要性那麼也看到是說其實美國也宣布那麼這兩天還會繼續的再有第二輪的這個和談那我們是這個密切的觀察關注這個相關的一個發展那隨時更新的這個情緒像跟委員報告像上次這個第一輪的談判在談呢"},{"start":10624.334,"end":10643.792,"text":"十幾個小時、二十個小時之後就宣布破裂這都是發生在週末的時候它一直在變化你把剛剛這些都寫進報告裡面之前你講的話還對得上好沒關係我就提醒你而已那未來的情勢判斷我們外交部現在的掌握呢你剛剛講第一輪談判很快的破裂了"},{"start":10644.232,"end":10666.589,"text":"但你目前觀察到的情勢好像各方雖然嘴巴上都講得很大聲但實務上來講動作上看起來有稍微其實還是有收斂有留點空間所以你對他們第二輪的和談部長你的判斷或者是我們外交部總體對於情勢的掌握你的預判是什麼柯老稍微只是說這個國際最重要的一個戰略思考加速這個所謂的戰爭都是一個政治的延伸"},{"start":10667.069,"end":10681.397,"text":"他還是要達到他的一個政治的目的不然就這個事情上面來說大家都有一個比較務實的一個地方那麼所以在這個務實的基點上面雖然是說大家會說一些比較因為戰爭他有一個需要他一定會有一些這個比較"},{"start":10682.197,"end":10705.92,"text":"時期考量 宣傳考量 大家都知道這我們稱之為所謂的戰爭的迷霧嘛那麼都有一些這種地方但是就實際來說實際的考量還是回到這個上面來那麼大家都還是希望能夠維持這個赫姆斯海峽那個對全球經濟的重要性但現在有一些說是不是所有的國家都願意參與啦大家的想法是什麼樣"},{"start":10706.5,"end":10724.725,"text":"所以我們都在努力的觀察但是對台灣來說現在最重要的一個工作的重點第一個還是一樣這個保護我們僑民的一個利益人身安全與利益第二個是在於確保我們的能源公願無虞好那麼這是一個經濟部的現在也都做我們在跨部會能源穩定待會我問經濟部我問國發會"},{"start":10726.725,"end":10753.539,"text":"我再額外問一個問題我們前面也有委員有講說在昨天的質詢的時候有提到我們應該要主動爭取我們也要去協助掃雷啊那這件事情已經形成中華民國的官方立場了嗎沒有欸那就是說這是一個現在也沒有人表達需要我們去做這樣的一個事情那我覺得這是一個很有趣的這個在戰略上面大的戰略上面一個提法你也覺得很有創意就對了"},{"start":10755.012,"end":10780.218,"text":"這有各種各樣的刑法很有創意但是我們在外交上面都還是比較謹慎小心比較這個嚴謹來看待這樣的一個各種各樣謹慎小心嚴謹才是對的是我們都是外交相關訓練出身都知道外交存在的用意就是避免衝突不要不希望這些東西我們希望都能夠用透過談的方式而不是透過戰的方式來解決好希望這個談判能夠順利好陳市長請回請辛苦了"},{"start":10780.718,"end":10786.162,"text":"來 這個經濟部跟國發會麻煩一下經濟部 國發會 謝謝你好 這一段時間CNN有相關的報導就是說看著赫姆斯海峽的這樣子的一個狀況對於台灣的啟示這寫的是蠻入骨蠻危險的也就是說類似的封鎖行動不管它的強度是怎麼樣一旦發生了很有可能對於我們的這個戰備能源造成立即性的衝擊"},{"start":10808.38,"end":10824.722,"text":"也就是說它裡面的說法是天然氣的儲量11天11天之後就會開始出現電力短缺等等它會衝擊我們的這個半導體的生產啊甚至是影響民生基礎用電等等造成很嚴重的衝擊經濟部對於這樣子的一個報導有什麼樣要回應的嗎國防衛生經濟部都可以回應 來"},{"start":10826.434,"end":10843.152,"text":"我想針對能源安全部分都一直是在能源政策努力的一個目標所以我們透過能源多元化我想不只是能源種類還包含來源的多元化所以這次的一個經驗其實讓我們其實應該會更加速我們在來源多元化的一個佈局來提高整個能源的一個韌性"},{"start":10844.215,"end":10857.432,"text":"之前來源多元化第一次討論的時候其實是在烏鴉戰爭爆發因為過去就是很集中然後你做了一個分散化但你可能運氣不太好啦一分散之後我增加了來自中東的來源然後中東就出事了當然分散風險是沒有錯的好那我順著這個話題往下走"},{"start":10860.215,"end":10885.701,"text":"這一次啊 就因為我們現在也跟中東進口了很多的原油嘛當然是在你分散風險的這樣一個大戰略之下但現在荷姆治海峽出事啦那剛剛情勢 我剛剛跟外交部有討論過嘛你也知道最新的狀況是美國宣布封鎖但是有部分的船隻可以通過那請問具體來講 現在的情勢下面這個台海 台灣啦 這個是否有這個原油等等相關原料的供應商因為現在的形勢受到影響經濟部有沒有掌握 或國防部有沒有掌握"},{"start":10886.927,"end":10914.047,"text":"目前其實我們國內的原油進口主要來自於中油跟台塑那中油部分我想我們就一直在解決就是中油那個本來打算從中東進口會經過橫浦之海峽的一個替代方案所以剛剛如同報告我們增加非中東地區包含像美國澳洲的一個進口或甚至是我們不要走橫浦之海峽走類似像阿曼灣等等其他進口的一個管道來解決有關可能的一個之前的一個缺口問題"},{"start":10915,"end":10934.967,"text":"所以到底有影響沒有?我問你是現在的情勢嗎?目前我們掌握到6月底 目前我們掌握到6月底 目前我們掌握到6月底目前我們掌握到6月底目前我們掌握到6月底目前我們掌握到6月底目前我們掌握到6月底目前我們掌握到6月底目前我們掌握到6月底目前我們掌握到6月底目前我們掌握到6月底目前我們掌握到6月底目前我們掌握到6月底目前我們掌握到6月底目前我們掌握到6月底目前我們掌握到6月底目前我們掌握到6月底目前我們掌握到6月底目前我們掌握到6月底目前我們掌握到6月底"},{"start":10935.707,"end":10964.266,"text":"剛剛有提到我們原油進口最大的兩家一家叫中油一家叫台塑當然中油是國營公司台塑是民營公司現在我們因應原物料的一個短缺的狀況當然我們為了要平易物價所以政府第一時間針對中油我用動漲的方式當然我國營企業我不管是財政作帳或者是政策補貼是很方便的我想問一下對於民營企業的影響比如說台塑在這裡面的角色是什麼他因應這樣的事情他會不會受到一定的衝擊"},{"start":10965.846,"end":10987.772,"text":"這個他有沒有拿到比如說相關的一些補貼或者是補償這樣的一個狀況沒關係你們誰要講都可以因為我想是不是屬於經濟部的範疇經濟部的範疇好吧那就經濟部多擔待吧沒關係有人可以回答就好跟我們報告其實台塑在目前國內的油品市場其實只佔國內內需的兩成左右所以他的一個供給部分其實國內價格對他影響並不太大他主要是以出口為主"},{"start":10988.192,"end":11015.259,"text":"那出口因為中東戰爭所以整個國際的價格其實變好對它來講其實是有它的一個營收的一個獲利的一個情況不過因為我們也希望它畢竟是國內的一個企業所以至少它國內的部分還要先滿足內需為主然後有餘額的話再出口所以目前是我們是這樣子來跟台塑來做討論這本期有觀察到這件事或者是我擔心這件事的原因就是因為中東跟台塑當然做一樣的事情但是體質上是不一樣的"},{"start":11015.879,"end":11030.039,"text":"如果我們在政策上面的一些協助或者是資源只側重在這邊的話會變成民營企業的狀況是我當然在市場競爭的過程或者什麼我當然是要對標這個也要配合政府的政策嘛所以我的價格當然是不能拉高的可是我的成本還是拉高的那從這個"},{"start":11031.201,"end":11045.699,"text":"正常市場將本求利的過程來看他很有可能就是那我可能因為這樣的狀況我生產越多但我必須要降價這個來賣可能生產越多賣越多他有沒有可能會因為這樣我降低生產的量能我減產或者是暫時不處理有沒有可能會有這樣的一些狀況"},{"start":11047.083,"end":11069.24,"text":"因為我目前掌握他的狀況其實因為他之前有存量再加上其實那個台塑他目前進口的狀況的影響並沒有那麼大當然還是有影響不過他還是有其他替代方案可是替代方案對他的整體的進口成本影響並沒有那麼大所以目前他我想在穩定國內的那個油價狀況之下他衝擊應該是還有因為如同剛剛講他在國內的內需市場的占比並不高"},{"start":11072.642,"end":11093.494,"text":"好沒關係 這相信 因為今天時間到了 大家都很趕 還有委員在等待這相關的 就是你在油價補貼的政策上面 針對不同的性質你要如何來做一個平衡 我希望你會提供一個比較完整的書面報告給我因為我擔心的是 如果因為這樣的成本 然後又要配合動產的政策然後它導致我用減產的方式 我要來平息損失或者是產線調動等等 然後它間接影響塑膠袋等等我想這對於國內都不是一件好事 這跨國裡面 這針對"},{"start":11098.797,"end":11124.233,"text":"特殊狀況的補貼政策它其實是不分國營跟民營的我覺得這部分應該要做一下通盤的思考但沒關係我覺得這件事情要詳細討論嘛所以你把相關的一些數據資料跟溝通的狀況做一下整理跟本席的辦公室做一下對話這樣可以嗎好這有勞經濟部好不好是國發會雖然沒有回答到但沒關係啦這個我想也是重大政策不管是情勢的變遷也好或者是一些政策的配套的規劃我們都希望可以更加周延希望可以平安的度過這個難關謝謝謝委員好謝謝"},{"start":11129.298,"end":11147.074,"text":"接下來請楊瓊英委員上台質詢謝謝主席 本席首先邀請外交部請陳次長"},{"start":11155.314,"end":11174.029,"text":"我想針對於美伊衝突發生在中東我相信影響不是只有中東那麼這個戰爭引發了三件事情美國戰略的資源是否會從印太來轉移尤其是第二項全球能源的這個問題"},{"start":11175.35,"end":11203.396,"text":"以及航運成本是不是會外溢到台灣那中國大陸是不是會藉此機會在亞太來擴張那政府本身認為必須將這場戰爭呢是當成我國面臨的一個風險來做處理所以外交部在美國長期強調印太優先但是他現在大量的軍力呢飛彈庫存以及航母戰力呢被"},{"start":11204.136,"end":11231.805,"text":"拉到中東去所以外媒指示說美軍部分長程飛彈跟防空的攔截系統庫存都已受到壓力甚至延後對盟邦的交付所以要請教在美國有兩條線的壓力的時候也就是中東跟印太對於我們台灣的影響到底是如何 請做說明"},{"start":11232.225,"end":11251.482,"text":"我想現在這個大的一個情勢影響當然是非常的大那麼剛才委員也正確的提到有關於這個整個亞太的這個印太的情勢那包括這一個相關的這個軍事資源的一個調動那的確是我們非常的關心的一個狀況我們現在跟這個在這個印太地區的這個國家"},{"start":11252.603,"end":11278.977,"text":"那麼共同的跟美國表示相關的一個關切喔那麼對於如何能夠確保在整個中東情勢因為中東這個狀況來講就是說它其實赫姆斯海峽的這個情勢影響到全球的經濟那剛才這個好幾位委員的質詢上面還有這個經濟部的回答沒有很清楚就因為大家看到這個必須是要以風險來做處理那請教外交部你的動作你的方向是什麼"},{"start":11279.737,"end":11306.197,"text":"當然是我們現在第一我們當然是進行我們說的外管透過各種的資源各種的管道能夠收集相關的情資做我們相關的研判包括經濟部包括行政院的研判的基準第二個是說我們透過外交的作為那麼也跟這個鄰近的國家共同表示我們在這個情況之下那麼也請注意到這個印太安全跟印太的整個軍事局"},{"start":11306.237,"end":11326.425,"text":"有沒有跟日本協調區域穩定的這個立場我們當然是跟日本隨時他的對話溝通的管道都隨時的暢通啦那在事情上面我們也了解這個一個情勢那我想這個現在的一個情勢的一個發展對大家來說都是一個比較需要高度關注的狀況必須密切去"},{"start":11327.285,"end":11345.955,"text":"了解 應對那所以因此在現在伊朗的這個軍事跟經濟壓力那赫姆茲海峽對於整個能源是全球都非常的非常的關注尤其台灣我們目前有大概三成左右是從這個方向來的"},{"start":11346.935,"end":11362.26,"text":"那所以在經濟部的立場除了協調中油之外那更要多元多項的多線的去將我們的能源能夠穩定但是所有的產業民生壓力非常的大"},{"start":11362.88,"end":11373.073,"text":"因為經濟部告訴我們如果以現在我們在4月份還尚可5月份我們必須要啟動特別採購那這個特別採購除了以往我們有這個"},{"start":11377.779,"end":11396.905,"text":"契約的就照著長約走但是如果增加的部分是必須要以現況的價格那大家聽到這一句話呢就非常的緊張因為它的成本會增加而且它的通膨在整個民生上面會非常的緊張就陳如最近"},{"start":11397.685,"end":11422.92,"text":"我們的索卡路加就開始全面PVC等不斷地在上漲一粒有可能三四四四這個價格的波動那在這個整個影響的一個程度上面我們又看到美國官員的說法美軍已經在波斯灣周圍部署15艘的軍艦那換句話說它形成對伊朗港口的一個海上封鎖網"},{"start":11424.501,"end":11439.874,"text":"它可以登建上去去檢查那在這樣的一個情況之下因為赫姆森海峽對於我們能源的來源也是非常重要的一個管道那全球能源的供應在吃緊的情況之下我相信亞洲是首當其衝"},{"start":11443.717,"end":11457.45,"text":"所以外交部針對於這樣子的一個大家都認為能源等於是國安事件的一個處理那在這個油氣供應的風險評估你們是否跟能源輸出國"},{"start":11459.153,"end":11484.238,"text":"有沒有特別的這個緊急應對也就是緊急外交的一個溝通機制請教說明現在就是說其實我們經濟部採購的方向那當然經濟部還是最好來回答就我剛才的了解是說其實包括澳洲美國這個加拿大等等這些重要的這個油氣的這個供應國那麼他們在那個國際現貨市場上面採購當然壓力成本壓力都非常高"},{"start":11488.44,"end":11496.677,"text":"外交部的做法是說我們希望在這個上面能夠跟主要的這些國家尤其是過去的時候我們的能源從西方來"},{"start":11498.168,"end":11521.437,"text":"那現在因為那個橫浦之海峽發生了這樣的一個危機必須要從東邊的來調度所以我們希望外交的這個努力能夠配合這個東西我們跟澳洲其實說實在有一個還不錯的關係跟美國跟加拿大都有很好的關係我們在這個架構上面能夠協助經濟部能夠調度新的澳運你講到這個重點喔 次長經濟部多元面向"},{"start":11522.694,"end":11551.193,"text":"的線索去努力剛剛本席也說了就價格方面甚至我們要以更高的價格以現貨的情況價格來採購經濟部他這麼做但是國家必須是合作尤其是外交部本席剛剛請教就是說外交部你已經也認識到這個問題的一個嚴重性那你外交部所採取的是什麼樣的方向你是不是有緊急外交的溝通機制"},{"start":11553.855,"end":11581.093,"text":"請說明當然尤其是美國現在是全世界最重要的一個產油國嘛氣也是一樣那麼他們美國過去的時候一向鼓勵我們跟美國來採購那現在美國的整個供應來說的話當然價格都會比較高但是供應來說的話都還可以所以我們在這個事情上面都強化我們跟台美雙方的一個互動就能源韌性的議題上面的一個合作"},{"start":11581.673,"end":11610.282,"text":"那我們做了各種的這個溝通能夠協助市場行為還是這樣經濟部還是必須要在現貨市場上面調貨所以經濟部告訴我們一句話他說因為我們的人員不錯所以也有國家願意要特別提供給我們那如果照剛剛市長所說的這個方向大家都知道是哪一個國家但是一個重點台美的關係我們一定要把握好"},{"start":11610.922,"end":11638.784,"text":"因為產業所面臨的是數字問題如果你的成本成為經濟部告訴我們的如果額外採購當然會以現貨的價格更高的價格這是經濟部告訴我們的也是產業所憂心的我希望政府各部門必須要去協助讓我們的產業可以安穩過關這也就是外交部跟經濟部甚至國防會這邊要怎麼樣去合作這是政府的責任"},{"start":11640.044,"end":11666.711,"text":"接下來我最後請問一個問題總統在22號要訪問史瓦帝尼這個總統也跟我們很好也是非洲唯一一個我們的邦交國這個國王甚至在總統就職的時候他也帶隊來我們非常的謝謝他也是非洲僅有的邦交國這個國王率團來祝賀所以本席要請教這一次"},{"start":11667.691,"end":11696.084,"text":"你們似乎是以直飛的方式 是不是那為什麼不會過境呢因為在我們整個過境外交也是一個非常重要的重頭戲請說明 會不會有過境外交我覺得現在的我覺得剛才也有回答另外的委員的一個質詢我們希望任務能夠單純然後也是展現我們的誠意那也能夠以這個便利舒適為最重要的一個考量"},{"start":11697.364,"end":11721.918,"text":"任務單純 舒適 簡單化但是我們以往也就是國際外交向來是我們非常重要的重頭戲啊是 這我們了解那這一次轉一個彎說是簡單 單純那這個讓國人好像還有很多的問號所以本下要請教是不是有持續跟美方來安排洽談總統訪美或者是國際美國"},{"start":11725.8,"end":11751.448,"text":"我們所有的努力溝通都一直持續在進行不然跟委員報告一下因為這個飛往非洲比較少這個途徑美國那麼這過去的這個所謂的過境外交的一個突破主要是在於像美日好像剛才也有提到像在那個蘇院長去日本看球賽這個事情那我們這個部分我們就不多做的這個"},{"start":11751.988,"end":11778.245,"text":"所以你現在說此行 好 我們得到一個結論就是簡單 單純 誠意那所以請教 在今年會不會安排總統過境美國或者是訪美 請教我們所有的這個規劃都持續在進行那但是實際的是說最後的一個拍板決定以及對外宣布都是由總統府來做所以這也是一個選項是 所有的東西我們都持續在規劃之中好"},{"start":11782.125,"end":11784.947,"text":"謝謝謝謝楊瓊瑩委員謝謝接下來請洪玉祥委員不在請洪孟楷委員不在請林倩琦委員不在請鄭振淺委員不在請蔡易瑜委員不在請鍾嘉斌委員不在請蘇清泉委員不在"},{"start":11809.446,"end":11838.026,"text":"今天已登記質詢的委員除不在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束本日會議有陳永康委員、洪育翔委員提出書面質詢請列入記錄並刊登公報委員書面及口頭質詢未及答覆的部分或要求補充資料者請相關機關兩週內已書面答覆委員有約定期限者重新鎖定本日會議到此結束 散會謝謝大家辛苦了 謝謝"},{"start":11839.918,"end":11840.139,"text":"謝謝主席"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}