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委員莊瑞雄及張家俊所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報想書面質詢和未及答覆部分請相關單位於一週內以書面答覆並複製本會委員另有要求期限者通緝所定"},{"start":1589.187,"end":1604.964,"text":"115年4月16日星期四報告事項邀請經濟部部長率台灣電力股份衛生公司董事長國家發展委員會主任委員及農業部部長就我國再生能源及電網韌性之發展現況建置進度容量目標推動困境法規障礙及相關改善"},{"start":1605.965,"end":1631.959,"text":"對策進行報告並備諮詢經濟部部長龔明新、國際發展委員會副主任委員張芳冠及農業部部長陳俊濟報告後委員陳定輝等13人提出諮詢經由經濟部部長龔明新等即席答覆決定1登記發言委員主部在場者外區域經與發言完畢訊達結束2委員徐新穎、陳超明及邱映穎所提書面諮詢列入紀錄刊登公報3書面諮詢和未及答覆部分請相關單位於一週內以書面答覆並複製本會"},{"start":1633.3,"end":1658.595,"text":"委員另有要求期限者從其鎖定 散會 宣讀完畢好繼續進行討論事項請宣讀討論事項1審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於經濟部及所屬單位預算部分2審查115年度中央政府總預算案直轄市及縣市政府一般性補助款經濟部主管部分預算宣讀完畢好"},{"start":1659.793,"end":1683.286,"text":"那接下來我們介紹一下今天列席的這個單位代表首先經濟部部長 公民信部長商業發展署署長 蘇文玲產業發展署署長 邱求慧國貿署署長 劉威廉能源署代理署長 吳志偉"},{"start":1687.659,"end":1714.634,"text":"中小及新創企業署署長李冠志水利署署長林元鵬制裁局局長廖承威產業園區管理局長楊志清標準檢驗局局長陳怡林地質調查及礦業管理中心主任徐明宏"},{"start":1716.612,"end":1741.935,"text":"經貿人員培訓所所長陳秀全台廊公司董事長吳明昌中油公司董事長方振仁台電公司董事長曾文森台水公司董事長李嘉榮行政院經貿談判辦公室資深代表兼執密徐從欽"},{"start":1744.025,"end":1763.336,"text":"行政院主計總署公務預算處專委曾益聖本日議程為巡達115年度中央政府總預算案關於經濟部及所屬單位預算的部分"},{"start":1764.042,"end":1792.865,"text":"第二關於直轄市及縣市政府一般性補助款經濟部主管部分的預算那麼請經濟部部長龔明鑫報告報告10分鐘為先謝謝謝謝主席那我就用簡報的形式跟各位委員來做說明那首先這邊是看到下一頁"},{"start":1793.939,"end":1817.521,"text":"那我想先跟各位委員報告的就是說我們的這個施政重點還有我們的主管預算案的部分它配合編列的情況那第二個大概整體預算的編列狀況第三個是個系化預算編列那第四項就是一般性補助的編列狀況請看到下一頁再下一頁基本上"},{"start":1819.383,"end":1833.058,"text":"經濟部在這一年主要的施政重點大概有幾個項目第一個大概還是因應國際情勢還有我國出口供應鏈上的支持包括了這個增強產業的韌性或者是加強中小微"},{"start":1834.72,"end":1852.682,"text":"產業的一些多元發展還有開拓海外市場第二個就是落實五大信賴產業包括推動半導體的供應鏈無人機的推動還有數位產業的轉型第三個主要是穩定供電的部分能源再發展再看下一頁"},{"start":1854.183,"end":1877.297,"text":"第三個就是立足台灣佈局全球行銷全世界的推動再來就是中小微企業振興發展建立單一窗口然後再來是供水環境的強化還有治水的強化那主要編列這幾個項目來講的話經濟部所主管的大概是總共今年編列了大概1480億左右"},{"start":1879.378,"end":1906.096,"text":"那分列在剛剛那幾個施政重點那最大的部分還是在右下角這邊的赤嘴黃紅的部分大概454億總共佔了30%那第二大項就是五大信貸產業的推動那總共大概414億佔了大概28%然後再來就是說這個穩定供電的推動還有一般政務那請看到下一頁"},{"start":1907.315,"end":1926.599,"text":"那整體預算編列的狀況在下一頁那整個我們稅務的部分大概編了158億那這個158億裡面最主要的項目大概就是由規費的收入大概65億然後另外就是營業營業還有事業收入63億這兩項是最大的"},{"start":1928.94,"end":1957.568,"text":"那盈利的部分主要是來自於台糖、中鋼、台鹽、漢翔等等的這個它的這個股息紅利的腳庫那規費的部分主要是智慧局跟標準局的規費收入那跟上一年比較來講大概是158億大概減列了大概9億左右那主要的原因大概是減列了中鋼、台鹽跟漢翔它的腳息但是也有增加的規費的收入是增加了3億"},{"start":1961.963,"end":1985.476,"text":"稅數的狀況來講的話總共編列了大概1480億那跟上年度比較起來大概增列了354億那主要的項目那右邊這邊有增列主要的部分就是說離島地區的這個水跟供電的補貼大概61億然後增列了新的國家藥物的"},{"start":1986.156,"end":2009.779,"text":"任性的整備計畫大概34億還有對於中小基金的撥補43億然後再來就是公共建設的部分主要是大林埔千尊的部分是60億然後還有一些新增的這個縣市管核酸的改善計畫大概35億還有海淡廠49億那這個都是增列那科技預算也有一些增列包括科技還有工業的發展還有能源的發展"},{"start":2010.82,"end":2034.908,"text":"我們看到下一頁那這個下一頁再下一頁這個是比較細的一般性編列的部分大概454億剛剛提到的主要是能源上的一些推動總共106億那比去年增加了17億中老企業基金的這個撥補大概91億那第三項就是說離島的部分的水跟電的"},{"start":2035.928,"end":2041.394,"text":"還有國家藥物的整備計畫這是全新的大概32億然後看下一頁然後另外還有一些撥補水作業基金還有擴大內需然後還有經濟部的辦公新社"},{"start":2058.11,"end":2084.621,"text":"聽社的一些興建計畫還有人事費等等這個是一般性支出那我們看到下一頁另外就是公共建設的部分那公共建設的部分總共編列了大概508億那這508億大概分成幾個項目一個是環境資源那環境資源主要都是治水的部分包括中央館還有海水淡化還有地方縣市的就是縣市館的這個改善計畫"},{"start":2085.962,"end":2103.777,"text":"然後還有一些聯通管的調度大概總共編列了426億那請看下一頁那另外一個就是經濟類別的部分主要是大陵埔的千春還有第六的發展無人機統籌總共大概是80億另外還有一個城鄉的相關的計畫數位發展計畫大概是1.8億那請看到下一頁"},{"start":2108.461,"end":2135.82,"text":"科技預算的部分科技的部分我們如果從單位來看的話一個是科技專案部分308億另外是工業的一些發展144億中小微企業一些發展18億再請看到下一頁商業的部分是15億能源科技10億還有度量衡的部分是9億還有其他地礦還有智慧財產等等一些情況再看下一頁"},{"start":2136.704,"end":2150.855,"text":"那在一般性補助的預算的編列情況 請看下一頁那主要是都是要補助給地方政府的那總共大概編列了80億左右 全部都是公共建設的預算"},{"start":2152.176,"end":2173.692,"text":"那分成這個一樣是環境資源類別的就是治水的部分絕大部分都是治水是80億包括縣市管河川的改制大概64億中央管的部分8億還有無自來水的時候大概是4億等等那經濟類別的部分就是無人機的一個統籌型那也有編列一些補助地方政府大概是0.12億"},{"start":2176.96,"end":2203.183,"text":"那總共來講的話所以115年事實上本部的這個主管的稅數預算還有一般性補助的編列那都符合行政院整體的施政那我們都希望用有限的資源來做最有效的配置跟運用那上一個年度就是114年事實上經濟部整個預算的達成率是達到了98.57%所以也算是有達到很好的很好的成效那懇請"},{"start":2205.084,"end":2220.593,"text":"各位委員支持本部的相關預算以上報告好謝謝部長好那因為在場為人數已達三人那請問各位同仁上次會議議事錄有無錯誤無錯誤議事錄確定"},{"start":2227.699,"end":2256.261,"text":"現在進行詢答委員質詢權原例做以下宣告第一 每位委員發言時間本會員6分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘非本會委員4分鐘上午10點截止發言登記首先請登記第一位的賴瑞龍委員發言好 謝謝召委 請工部長"},{"start":2264.419,"end":2277.634,"text":"國務長我先請教一下這個政協會後然後中共宣布了十大的措施那這十大措施其實對台灣有什麼樣的影響我可不可以先請教一下部長怎麼來整體判斷"},{"start":2279.865,"end":2303.428,"text":"因為這十大措施其中只有大概只有一項跟經濟部比較有關就是什麼對於中小企業有一個什麼交易的事實上他寫得很模糊也不是很清楚他到底那我問一下部長主管經濟部的部長你也擔任國發會主委你怎麼來看待這十大的措施對台灣會不會有什麼樣整體性的影響因為事實上台灣現在來講"},{"start":2304.989,"end":2318.562,"text":"以去年經濟成長率是達到8.68%今年可能超過7%ATB最新的估計所以這幾年來甚至於是這5、6年來台灣的經濟都非常非常好那"},{"start":2319.846,"end":2343.409,"text":"也沒有受到什麼中國的會台的什麼什麼措施的影響台灣本身已經走出自己很好的路而且從之前的很依賴中國到現在其實我們也因為中國很多的時候它的開放跟禁止開放禁止間其實是沒有太多的這個可遵循的一些依據的啦那往可能政黨之間有一些談判或什麼的就四方"},{"start":2343.849,"end":2361.785,"text":"他認為的利益多就丟出來所以其實對我們的很多的不管是產業或農業產品其實很多不確定性所以我們現在走向了國際的這個路線那依賴度也大量的降低跟中國之間的這個所以這個反倒是讓我們的經濟其實我們的股市也都上到了非常好的一個數字"},{"start":2362.486,"end":2377.169,"text":"所以我們認為這是一個有正確的道路啦那但是我還是要問一下裡面我看到很多包括他設立很多的條件喔這個一二點是呃國共兩黨的什麼常態化溝通或青年的溝通那甚至於很多的都還要"},{"start":2378.11,"end":2406.566,"text":"設定比如第五個所謂的這些農業產品還要建立在堅持在九二共識包括很多漁業的還要符合條件甚至於食品的註冊等等也要符合條件或者是符合什麼需求或者是連電視劇啊紀錄片動畫還要導向正確這些東西當設定這麼多條件的時候部長你怎麼看第一個它有真正的效果第二個是這樣的條件適合嗎"},{"start":2407.825,"end":2427.425,"text":"事實上之前有些措施是它在2016年陸續本來都有已經開放的項目它都把它取消掉那當然是政治上的考量我剛才提到了從2016年我們也從替代市場或分散市場也獲得了很好的成果所以它現在再次的開放的話"},{"start":2428.266,"end":2448.545,"text":"那我們當然也不要設有條件是最好的因為原來就沒有那些條件他要給你停也不一定要什麼樣的具體的理由啦那他要開放的時候又設了一些條件那他要條件你無法達成無法那也是也是他說了算嘛所以就是說兩岸之間如果說可以有比較穩定的"},{"start":2450.106,"end":2468.391,"text":"簽訂什麼樣的確定的合約就是政府對政府如果可以簽訂比較具體的合約而不是說單方面的就是說我今天說怎樣明天說怎樣那對於企業界來講是非常困擾的一件事那問一下部長跟特定政黨接觸過後直接就放出這些東西出來你認為這樣它有沒有具有背後的一些政治目的"},{"start":2469.291,"end":2497.577,"text":"我認為還是如果說政府對政府還是最好的方式一定要政府對政府嘛你再跟政黨談過任何東西你跳過政府跳過中華民國政府想要來跟談的話事實上這並不會達到實際上的效果所以還是必須政府政府那我再問那這背後有沒有特定今年年底要選舉有沒有選舉的目的介入選舉的目的這個我就沒有辦法去預測但是我還是覺得就是說部長應該不是沒辦法預測是不方便回答啦"},{"start":2499.048,"end":2518.548,"text":"我認為這個部分大家都看得很清楚他一定有背後的目的他想要去影響想要去試圖去干擾所以我希望這一塊政府還是要更以審慎妥善處理一些作為不要讓這樣的產生對於整個不管是所有在政策上面或所有上面的負面上的一些效果"},{"start":2519.088,"end":2543.206,"text":"我再來看一下其實我們這幾年經濟狀況其實相當好從去年剛剛提到了8.68到今年7甚至有機會有更好這在台灣以這樣的狀況來說是非常不容易的包括我們的股市狀況所以我們現在走在一個正確的道路上那我們認為剛剛部長也提到我們的交流貿易不應該設有任何政治前提當你有設有政治前提當你跳過了政府跟政府間的談判"},{"start":2543.926,"end":2567.953,"text":"跟溝通跟交流的時候其實就會出很多問題而且它有可能形成是單一片面式的決定我是要給就給我是要停就停這對於我們來說是一個非常大的風險所以才會有所謂的養套殺這樣的狀況的出現部長應該同意這樣的看法吧是是是那我再問一下陸委會說他們掌握了情勢中共動員以上逼政部長有這樣的狀況嗎"},{"start":2570.802,"end":2594.14,"text":"這個我就不知道 略微才知道部長應該也有說 那我們希望這些都是要審慎妥善去做注意的就是說我們還是必須要穩建住 台灣是走在一條正確的道路上面那應該要想辦法讓國人更加的清楚 堅定我們這樣的一條道路這才是一個比較穩卻的道路 那如果是透過政治的手段"},{"start":2594.6,"end":2611.906,"text":"或者是透過有一些政治的目的的話應該讓國人更加的清楚對我們政府目前的方向正確的方向更加的有信心這才是台灣應該要走向全世界一條道路那不要受到特意的政黨或特意的政治的目的去干擾這反倒會影響到台灣未來長遠的經濟發展"},{"start":2614.167,"end":2636.093,"text":"最後時間有限,台北在抱怨說耗水費的問題,然後應該要認為耗水費那我先問一下,全國的電網是不是很多台北的供應,那是不是應該要負擔所有的一些輸電的成本?"},{"start":2637.554,"end":2655.703,"text":"我們來看一下這個表啦齁台北市的發電量到了2025年2.9億度它的用電量164.1億度將近161度超支了這麼多而這些電都其他從外線送來的可能中部從南部送上來的這些所有的過程中都有輸電成本這個要不要計算進來"},{"start":2657.549,"end":2672.897,"text":"我們當然是希望說所有的國人受到的待遇都一樣盡量不要用區域性來看這個但是這個也是希望那我問你部長耗水費其實是大戶用的名詞並不是給他這樣用的全台灣也沒有一個水庫要收"},{"start":2674.358,"end":2694.935,"text":"因為大用戶就是用水用比較多的這個大戶我們當然希望他可以就是這是耗水費的目的嘛不是給你地方政府找個名目來收這個錢的嘛那更何況是台北市的發電量遠少於他的用電量那你發電這麼少的狀況下你還要想要收這個耗水費這真的是"},{"start":2695.896,"end":2699.098,"text":"所以部長覺得這個不合理吧那我另外要問的是那輸電成本的部分要不要計算一下"},{"start":2715.534,"end":2744.51,"text":"輸電成本這也是台電重大的成本啊你為了光為了要把電送進去台北市花了這麼多錢這個要不要算一下是是是部長這要計算一下好不好你不計算人家就幫你幫你算了很多你他算他有利他沒有算到他讓國家為他付出多少成本他沒有算到台電沒有算到經濟部為台北市付出多少成本整天在算著這些我認為這已經佔了全台灣的便宜這麼多的人還用這樣的角度在思考我認為是非常缺缺乏格局也非常缺乏氣度的"},{"start":2746.099,"end":2754.788,"text":"這個我請那個台電能不能計算給我輸電的成本從中南部或其他縣市送進去台電要的成本可不可以給我一個禮拜你可不可以把這個資料給我"},{"start":2756.38,"end":2785.231,"text":"我們會估計一個數字但是也跟委員報告就是我們輸電成本依照現在的電價公式是平均全國平均啊 對啦但是你如果是在地你有你的電廠的話你當然可以降低成本嘛你電力要從南部送上來 中部送上來那成本絕對是高很多嘛這些成本算給我們至少當台北市的市長 首都市長缺乏格局講出這種話的時候至少我們要告訴他我們都還沒跟你算你的輸電成本花了這麼多錢台電為了這些花了多少錢"},{"start":2786.051,"end":2811.222,"text":"所以我認為要講之所謂的耗水費的時候先來談談這件事情再來區別電價的部分我之前提過很多次了去年提過不應該南部發電然後其他不發電部分還有不同的電價至少對於發電的城市給予公平合理的對待就算少一點點也是一種對發電城市的一個尊重我提了很久了部長好像還沒有提出任何的評估報告給我什麼時候給我"},{"start":2812.934,"end":2831.648,"text":"是 事實上我們有在算了然後他們也跟我報告了一下但是中間還在持續的這個我們看一下啦 區別電價的部分包括韓國 包括英國 德國都已經有評估報告出來韓國是暫緩實施 英國是沒有實施 德國沒有實施至少人家有個評估報告出來 部長"},{"start":2832.691,"end":2858.297,"text":"多久可以給我評估報告至少給評估報告我沒有要求你馬上實施但是至少給我一個評估報告從去年講到現在總諮詢講到部門諮詢都沒有什麼時候給我多久今年做完啦不能今年我沒辦法接受這麼久因為他有台電公司有一個委託報告我不認為這個這麼困難我不認為這麼困難一個月內可以完成嗎給我一個月內給我可以嗎你們要不要給而已我不認為你們手上沒有一個月給我好嗎"},{"start":2859.889,"end":2873.678,"text":"好 兩個月給我 好不好 我要看到一個評估做不做是另外一回事 但是區別店家的評估報告要出來因為其他國家都已經有出來了好 謝謝好 謝謝阿仁委員的質詢接下來有請邱義營委員質詢謝謝主席 我請一下部長有請龔部長"},{"start":2890.337,"end":2893.202,"text":"呃 是不是水利署署長也一定上水利署署長"},{"start":2896.483,"end":2914.548,"text":"部長早部長我們等了這個總諮詢的報告跟審查也等了半年了這個部長您剛剛的報告裡頭其實我看經濟部主管大概總預算編列了大概需要有1480億1480.28億那除了一般行政大概現在是持續穩定的"},{"start":2922.91,"end":2931.739,"text":"可以致用以外你的許多的重大建設我想直接請教你到目前為止你們的執行率是多少"},{"start":2933.687,"end":2950.873,"text":"你這些重大的建設我剛剛請水利署上來我看一下你的預算裡頭單單防水供水防洪任性的計劃的預算總額大概就達到了454.37億佔整個經濟部的總預算的30%你們現在的預算執行成果是什麼署長你可以說明嗎還是"},{"start":2962.37,"end":2985.482,"text":"報告委員 我想問關切是一類錢這麼多那擔心現在如果以這個時間點擔心到年底這邊可能執行的問題那事實上跟委員報告我們為了要因應這個狀況其實從去年底年初就開始滾動檢討跟相關的部門尤其縣市政府共同努力很多工作都前置作業都做完"},{"start":2985.802,"end":3003.993,"text":"你們前置作業開始做啦但是有開始發包了嗎還沒發包但是都是做好那你做好了前置作業現在已經四月底將近五月了你如果現在要開始準備發因為我不知道總預算什麼時候過我們有信心可以來現在開始審查而已喔"},{"start":3004.873,"end":3033.879,"text":"不知道什麼時候過喔那你接下來你的發包施工很顯然在今年的汛期之前你沒有辦法完成任何一項重大的防洪建設對不對你沒有辦法拿到任何一個錢那我比較擔心的是你現在編列了454.37億立法院的審查應該不會讓你454.37億全數給你如果被刪掉如果被大刀一砍請問你的防洪建設怎麼做"},{"start":3034.859,"end":3048.908,"text":"還不只你這樣喔 我現在只講到是你水利署的部分你經濟部所有的這些重大的工程包括你要補助中小微企業的振興包括這個支持我們的供應鏈甚至包括了幾大產業如果總預算的審查到時候在協商的時候大刀一砍"},{"start":3059.607,"end":3075.398,"text":"請問你經濟部要怎麼做你到現在五月了你的執行率都講不出來過去你們到了期中應該大概執行率都會執行率大概都會到50%左右了嘛很多的重大建設可能是在往前走那你現在的執行率是多少"},{"start":3076.098,"end":3089.398,"text":"不跟我說 也不能說也不知道要怎麼做你的所有的東西水利工作都只有做前置作業啊那接下來怎麼辦那你馬上要編明年的預算了耶那明年預算要怎麼編 要怎麼執行"},{"start":3092.31,"end":3111.942,"text":"我補充一下因為在今年執行的時候因為新興計畫還沒有辦法執行所以我們目前只能執行延續性計畫但是因為延續性計畫我們在執行的時候也會比較保守是因為怕到時候立法院有一些決議所以我們目前整體的公務預算到3月底截止大概是67%左右"},{"start":3114.417,"end":3136.322,"text":"公務預算到3月底以前已經完成67對不含新興我們沒有把新興放到分配的基準裡面所以光延續性計劃所以你的自災防洪的計劃這位任性計劃全部都算是新興計劃嗎很多都是算新興計劃嗎這些都完全還沒做嗎是不是這樣好那部長我要請教那你們在進度上能不能追得上"},{"start":3137.322,"end":3159.18,"text":"就是到今年年底以前 因為我現在不知道今年的總預算什麼時候會過啦現在開始第一次的報告 對不對接下來我們可能還有預算提案的審查然後還要再進到院長的協商所以我不知道最後拉到最後什麼時候會過因為我看這個台灣民眾黨還提了一個案說今年又要研會到8月31號"},{"start":3161.101,"end":3178.315,"text":"有沒有可能8月31號才通過今年度的總預算然後9月份開始我們應該要開始審明年度的總預算的那你們經濟部怎麼辦你所有的這些治災防洪的工程怎麼做有沒有一個就是你心裡有沒有一個底"},{"start":3179.537,"end":3201.875,"text":"所以剛剛署長特別提到就是說我們前置作業可以做的就盡量趕快先做那這還是在等這個預算所以我們期待說這個預算可以趕快通過是啊 我是這樣想你的那個包括是新興的預算或者是說自災防洪的預算我希望你們給我一個到目前為止的執行率"},{"start":3202.856,"end":3229.195,"text":"好不好 到目前為止你所有的這些治災防洪地方都在等嘛我們很怕接下來颱風期來了要怎麼辦這些治災防洪的工程進度執行到什麼樣的程度這些是不是能夠請經濟部或者是水利署下個禮拜給本席一個報告 好不好那接下來剛剛這個其實我們賴委員也特別請教到"},{"start":3231.257,"end":3259.331,"text":"台北市政府的確是一個非常奇怪的單位非常奇怪的市政府我第一次聽到有水庫用水然後要去跟人家收耗水費的用水利發電然後要來跟人家收耗水費而且還要跟台電收錢水利署過去我們在經濟文匯審查過耗水費的這個法案設計其實就在我當召委的時候通過的什麼叫耗水費"},{"start":3260.626,"end":3273.648,"text":"保證你可以說明一下嗎?泡水費的定義是什麼制度上它應該是用在什麼地方是跟誰徵收你可不可以把這個定義把它說明一下或者是署長來"},{"start":3275.155,"end":3290.113,"text":"報告委員 耗水費的最大的精神是希望能夠節約用水使用者付費的精神那目前耗水費是針對每天用水300噸的一個大戶來進行徵收工業大戶嘛 工廠大戶嘛 對不對"},{"start":3290.914,"end":3316.521,"text":"那我們剛剛特別委員在那水利發電算是耗水嗎不是 水利發電在我們耗水費裡面並沒有這一項而且不會進行徵收其實全台很多水利發電我們都不徵收任何耗水費用因為他們有浪費水源是嗎有原則好 那請教一下就經濟部的立場上面現在台北市政府要來跟你們收耗水費"},{"start":3317.481,"end":3332.643,"text":"第一個這個耗水費的收取也是在中央作業嘛不是在地方政府嘛對不對這個是中央的權責中央的權責那地方可以來收取耗水費嗎那這耗水費要怎麼收第一個他本來就不能收嘛是第二個"},{"start":3333.984,"end":3355.244,"text":"這個水庫的水是屬於天然資源不是屬於台北市政府的水報告委員這水資源是最重要的是最國家的嘛不是像你台北市政府的不是像你蔣萬安的嘛沒有錯水利發電用水來做發電這個發電用的有可能是在台北市使用嘛是不是這樣"},{"start":3360.805,"end":3382.332,"text":"或者是你們的電力是怎麼配置因為他其實我們所有水庫操作都依照他的水位高低去進行調整以目前水庫他的一個水位是90幾%是屬於高水位其實本來就可以進行調控這個水量沒有任何浪費行為因為他有防洪的需求跟調控的行為所以我們進行這個水力發電"},{"start":3383.112,"end":3396.544,"text":"其實兼顧到下游的用水跟整個水庫的高低安全的部分去調控並沒有任何浪費水的狀況水運署不贊成收耗水費來我想請一下台電人家現在要幫你收錢 獅子大開口"},{"start":3398.78,"end":3413.689,"text":"那個跟委員報告幾件事第一件事情是水力發電不是用掉水我們是利用了水的未能這是完全兩個不同的概念這第一點我們以前都學過這個事你學過他不一定有學過啊"},{"start":3414.858,"end":3442.108,"text":"台北市政府不一定有學過啊所以對我們來講這是知識可是對他來講這是很新奇的東西啊這個叫耗水啊這我也覺得匪夷所思第二個你用水利來發電然後要來跟台電收取這些費用那我請教你台電第一就是把大家當傻子那你台電在這個興達電廠的發電我們要不要來跟你收取空污費"},{"start":3443.766,"end":3451.574,"text":"那個跟委員報告就是說一個國家的制度可以這樣亂搞嗎其實台電"},{"start":3452.947,"end":3474.41,"text":"因為本來就是那個水流下來下游的集水站那個取水場他會去用到這些水中間水沒有沒有沒有損耗那如果說有多發電有出來的水其實我們也都是真的水庫的管理局的同意才會發這一些電因為他下游還可以收起來用那因為翡翠的水源非常的大"},{"start":3475.191,"end":3488.043,"text":"那監察院調查的狀況是說他的水源有很多的水量應該有更多的妥善運用但是我發電影響的量非常的少我最近這一段時間他裡面提到自己提到的說我們是115萬噸"},{"start":3491.286,"end":3506.52,"text":"但是被檢討的是五億噸所以那個是完全不同量級的事情我想要說就是說其實就水費來講台電公司付給所有的水庫也都有付費比方說真文我們有付費石門有付費"},{"start":3507.701,"end":3532.256,"text":"翡翠的平均單價其實相對來講是這三個水庫比較高一些我想說我們真的台電公司沒有特別對翡翠水庫不好我想說在這邊跟委員說說明我想這個事情我還是期待包括台電或者是水利署你們都應該要對外說明清楚什麼叫耗水費什麼叫水利發電"},{"start":3533.888,"end":3559.158,"text":"如何水力發電然後這個利用水的位差來做發電之後這個水的流向去哪裡你可能覺得這是常識這是知識但對台北市政府來講他不知道所以我剛剛你們要多花一點時間來教導他們要讓他們有這些正確的知識跟觀念好不好"},{"start":3566.227,"end":3585.034,"text":"接下來我們請洪義強召委好 謝謝主席 有請經濟部工部長部長"},{"start":3593.703,"end":3611.339,"text":"部長早我想在這個地方來講我稍微因為經濟部所屬預算很多我大概先把部的這些的預算稍微仔細去把它整個整本看完那我大概看出來大概就是說我們就部來講的話"},{"start":3613.446,"end":3631.836,"text":"稅出的月薪115年是大概464.85億大概增加了167.53因為你之前是那個部本部有1000億的那個台電的撥補扣掉那個之後那當然這當中可能科技專案的一個增加的一個幅度大概有302.49億"},{"start":3634.52,"end":3644.336,"text":"那當然這其中我們大概鎖定的領域包含機器人Age AI無人化的創新等等也包含IC設計領航的更新這邊"},{"start":3645.489,"end":3673.398,"text":"那我稍微再把它整個再掃一遍的話大概有幾個成長幅度比較多的我剛才列出來也給部長參考包含我們的科技專案那研發測試及藥品國產非營業特種經濟作業一般行政我是覺得還好就是說因為可能但是我是覺得公務人員好像減少這個剩下的公務人員負擔會很重這個公餐"},{"start":3674.238,"end":3696.349,"text":"那就其中這幾個的話我稍微再往下去把它追得到就是這個科技的研發就是我其實不反對但是如果從你的預算書這邊下來的話好像在法人這邊就是我們經濟部有巴納法人還有這個小人"},{"start":3696.869,"end":3714.278,"text":"那工研院大概這個預算基本上來講的話增加了26.93那金工大概他們兩個來講的話所佔的一個成果收入比例應該是算比較多的啦"},{"start":3715.066,"end":3737.456,"text":"那我的意思也沒有說他們兩個做不好因為這牽扯到一個問題因為有一個大法人不見了然後當你要擴增科技的法人科專補助的時候那你可能就會落到像公民院我們的大哥身上那個南部的金工那這不是不好但是我是覺得可能要幫其他小法人說說話"},{"start":3739.053,"end":3754.97,"text":"稍微要分散一下資源或者是公園院來做一個大阿哥做一個立的整合型的然後來做一些資源預算的分配這個請教部長跟市長的看法都可以好不好是我們現在的做法就是這樣就是"},{"start":3755.83,"end":3773.929,"text":"現在有一個競爭力的輔導團的一個計畫那就是由公營來做主政但是所有的法人通通要參加而且分區域那個太少啦我說有一些關鍵研發像訪研所啊 對不對或者是像這一個雖然支撐已經不照你們的法人嘛"},{"start":3774.349,"end":3791.417,"text":"或者是像這一個其他的不管是生技對不對食品加工就是說因為工業涵蓋很多領域所以在各個領域當中的研發著這一個關鍵技術可能就請我們的郭師長好好在locate說明一下就好了"},{"start":3792.217,"end":3814.112,"text":"跟委員報告那確實在公園院在我們的科技預算裡面它占比達到46 per person 確實是最高的那也是因為有一些比較長期的任務會希望公園院來做執行 而且是同和所有的發展所以我們公園院在張院長的帶領下"},{"start":3815.433,"end":3835.081,"text":"那也跟這個都明白我們節省時間你知道我要表達的是什麼就是說我們希望是說各個領域的法人我知道委員的意思了解謝謝那有沒有對公務員不慶就是基本上我就希望說大家是團結合作然後讓這個小法人這些來講各有其專長領域"},{"start":3836.462,"end":3853.628,"text":"那業學界的話我是也支持雖然它預算的暴增當然你鎖定了這些的一些題目但是可能外界可能比較會擔心的尤其就是說是不是就是某些特定的產業或特定的一些廠商"},{"start":3854.528,"end":3876.373,"text":"那這一陣子我接到比較多的就是在國際研發中心這一塊也就是我們補助美光設這些研發中心什麼等等但是這樣子我們本土的比如說南亞華邦電我覺得這一點他們會有點不太服氣雖然你南亞科後來也有補但是我覺得這一點的政策"},{"start":3877.313,"end":3901.533,"text":"以後可以稍微考慮一下因為他們也實在是很有錢了有些外商也不需要我們所以我這個建議是可以以本土的科技本土的廠商的研發這樣子的設計為主好不好這也請郭師長回去不用現在回答回去好好研究一下好那接下來的話這個是因為長年我都待在其實我比各位可能都熟"},{"start":3903.139,"end":3929.693,"text":"現在各個計畫這個資源切態稅第一個是我們部裡面我們有技術師產發署做一堆東西不管是AI機器人無人機IC設計應該也涵蓋了技術師跟產發署這個是部而已所以我是希望部長將來在統籌的時候不管無人機尤其現在是無人機然後這些晶片我覺得這個東西部要統籌一下因為不然到時候"},{"start":3930.974,"end":3945.807,"text":"這個整個總體就算是部長要扛那部長有這個東西之後還要再去跟跨部會不管是國科會書發布這些東西的會診不然的話我們在審預算的時候我們一定就會覺得說你們很多都是什麼"},{"start":3946.764,"end":3963.351,"text":"分工不均對不對然後這個預算科目會重疊預算重複資源的投入那到時候我們要救者比如說有功勞的時候到底算誰的失敗的時候算誰要救者還是 報告委員還是有一些區分啦即便我們部裡面來講的話"},{"start":3964.551,"end":3985.067,"text":"比較屬於技術端的部分那這個技術是要負責但是跟產業比較結合端的部分那個是我們產業發展署在負責所以才還是有技術上有上游跟下游的關係更早那個是就是國科會在負責那個非常學術界的研究那個就是因為這都十幾年的老問題這個講我都會講"},{"start":3989.631,"end":4014.591,"text":"所以我的意思就是說好好的去把這一個就起碼我也認識你們也都知道我的個性也知道我都很清楚所以說我們扎扎實實把國家的預算做到正確的地方那現在我比較擔心的其他這個我想就跳過去了因為像這個藥我是想說這個東西早就以前也有在做那又多了預算可能將來我們再看預算的時候你們的成果會是什麼"},{"start":4015.652,"end":4036.826,"text":"然後這個產發產業園區的這個60億循環專區的基金因為它現在60億啊蠻高的我想要問一下這個是是大嶺埔千村主要是那個機會對不對就是要為了千村編這個預算OK好那可能在後面的預算執行再詳細說明一下這樣就好好不好"},{"start":4037.466,"end":4061.39,"text":"因為我想說突然暴增這麼多那另外一個想要跟這個部這邊的話好像是吳文基這裡因為吳文基在過去審計部在做這個審查你們經濟部相關的預算113年的時候我記得是在就是他認為在2024年底這幾個非保控籌載通訊晶片設計到2024嘛 113這個還是一個瓶頸那114"},{"start":4065.871,"end":4083.669,"text":"一是去年應該有做一些東西了現在這些技術的缺口是不是有補起來現在我記得應該是希望2027年是不是把它補起來這樣子就是說晶片的開發或等等的一些情況因為我為什麼會這樣問就是說因為這個地方的話你們編了很多的預算"},{"start":4089.275,"end":4113.738,"text":"無人化創新這講給全國觀眾聽都很奇怪無人化創新科技無人化多元應用關鍵研發測試場域這次也是那個無人載叫無人載具產業發展統籌型計畫因為它有分成幾個部分無人化的部分一個部分就是場域的建設包括在這個嘉義的這些都是無人機還是無人車還是無人船還是"},{"start":4115.401,"end":4121.444,"text":"主要是無人機的部分所以無人機這邊的話全部都是無人機但是現在無人船也有場域場域的開發我現在就是說這幾個都是無人機"},{"start":4129.841,"end":4143.714,"text":"目前來講主要是無人機比較多應該都是有這四個因為它都編不同計畫的名字它不一樣一個是場域的開發一個是科技上的補助然後另外當然還有就是就是我們各部會有一個統籌型要買無人機那個預算"},{"start":4146.136,"end":4171.043,"text":"對 所以我的意思說這可能在上面因為我們在審預算的時候就是這個很confuse就是你到底這邊全部都是無人機還是無人載具因為無人載具又更廣嘛 對不對所以到底是focus是什麼可能將來在預算我們在執行的時候我們這樣也比較容易追績效跟追這個成果因為如果你的一些關鍵技術沒有起來那你這些的場域然後你們號稱輸出國際這些"},{"start":4174.625,"end":4182.172,"text":"這個行政院副院長講很多書我就搞不懂那既然關鍵技術這還沒起來那你的輸出國際跟一大堆的採買要飛鴻供應鏈這當中是怎麼銜接"},{"start":4186.693,"end":4214.196,"text":"因為現在可以輸出的話當然裡面有一些晶片當然是用國外沒有錯但是我們現在是整機是可以出口的很多廠商它已經對它整機那我們本土化的這個自製我們會比例是多少對那就是剛剛那幾項的這個晶片還沒有過那個晶片不是說我們好沒關係這個再請那個那個晶片不是我們做不出來而是因為它早期這個市場規模不夠大所以我們的"},{"start":4215.317,"end":4242.635,"text":"這個大廠都不願意投入這個部分沒關係啦這個我們就是看到說他執行的比例對不對然後國產化的拉到什麼程度然後因為你要有商機有市場才會有那這裡到底是軍規還是商規的輸出出口這個都請一個禮拜給我一個報告好不好因為我對無人機這個發展我們當然都是支持但我們希望他是對的錢花在對的地方真正去落實好不好好謝謝"},{"start":4262.445,"end":4264.006,"text":"好 接下來我們請鍾嘉賓委員質詢"},{"start":4275.492,"end":4292.334,"text":"好 主席在場的委員先進列席了總局長 總管官員 會長 工作夥伴 媒體機構的女士新生有請經濟部鞏部長以及水利署的林署長和台水公司的李董事長台水李董事長中委員長安"},{"start":4293.54,"end":4314.471,"text":"部長好 署長好 董事長好來 我們來關心一下上週是發生了一個叫做翡翠水庫的事情因為關心到我們水資源調度跟未來的水價來 我們往下看這個翡翠水庫的水資源流失是因為錯誤調度根據媒體報導因為台北市政府由於受到監察院的糾正"},{"start":4316.172,"end":4344.429,"text":"說因為你們過去曾經有5億噸的水流入大海所以要被監察院糾正因此管理局就說好啊那既然我被糾正我來台電說我要跟你收耗水補償費請問一下部長翡翠水為了水利發電的尾水是屬於流到大海消耗掉的嗎可以收耗水費嗎怎麼說應該是法律上是這個依據是有問題的依據法律上法律是哪一個法"},{"start":4345.031,"end":4366.628,"text":"就是水利法那我問一下水利發電的水有被浪費掉流到大海嗎沒有那既然沒有就不是監察院糾正台北市政府他水資源浪費的原因那到底台北市政府他的水資源浪費被監察院糾正的原因是什麼剛剛事實上曾董事長也有講事實上我們調度他的水只有150噸"},{"start":4369.858,"end":4390.765,"text":"來請說我們收的那個耗水費那個量是115萬噸他這個是5億所以他結論講的是他那個水流下來翡翠流出來的水沒有辦法全部運用我想這才是監察院調查的最主要的一個水利署你們專業看法怎麼看"},{"start":4393.308,"end":4408.168,"text":"報告委員這個依照法規耗水費它事實上是用在工業大戶為原則每天300度的一個大戶那工業用水我們是為了要節用水使用那請問水公司有沒有付耗水費"},{"start":4410.901,"end":4429.054,"text":"跟委員報告,耗水費是由水利署來開徵對,開徵對誰?你有沒有被開徵過耗水費?水工是沒有被開徵過那你們用原水要不要付錢?要付付給誰?水庫的管理單位水庫的管理單位那因為水利署不是你們管的啦對我說其他的水庫用水庫的水你們有付錢嗎?有"},{"start":4430.94,"end":4459.443,"text":"像石溫水庫或是翡翠水庫離台水庫因為翡翠水庫是專攻台北市因為台北市的水公司跟我們不一樣它是北水處對它是北水處那你們不是你們不攻台北市的水我們還要請台北自來水事業處支援我們新北的供水那翡翠水庫除了供應台北之外還支援新北好那你們跟其他的南部的水庫用水有沒有付耗水費"},{"start":4460.114,"end":4480.735,"text":"沒有耗水費那好啦那我又不懂啦來部長那奇怪了那到底說工業大戶可以水庫管理機關可以跟他收耗水費但是可能使用水庫水很大量的是自來水公司那台北市政府他的翡翠水庫他自己拿來自己用自來水他當然不用收費嘛他不會收嘛那"},{"start":4481.635,"end":4496.769,"text":"那其他的水庫有去收過耗水費嗎因為耗水費基本上是中央的中央的稅收是啦只有中央可以收所以他就是他想要跟台電簽約但是台電說這樣他不願意簽所以說了半天"},{"start":4497.87,"end":4519.771,"text":"監察院糾正台北市政府他轉移焦點說然後轉過頭來說要跟台電收耗水費耗水費也不是他能收的他要透過簽約的商業行為來跟台電簽來我們看一下這個事情不是昨天才發生不是上週才發生是去年的11月4號的時候他們的水庫管理局的這個林育毅局長在回答議員質詢的時候說"},{"start":4521.212,"end":4526.929,"text":"台電曾經發文九次請他同意供水來發電有沒有這個事實"},{"start":4529.434,"end":4557.092,"text":"九次嘛,我看到去年,是啦,所以去年就講了嘛那因為呢,後來他們要調高跟你們收費,台電就覺得你怎麼可以跟我說這個錢呢,就沒有同意嘛所以這個新聞會再出來,台北市政府是借題發揮嘛去年11月4號,市議會有人做球問他,他就講了但是依法他不能收耗水費,他就轉頭來跟台電說我要再跟你重新預約,預約的內容是要調高,地方米要調高為3元,是這樣嗎"},{"start":4558.693,"end":4580.109,"text":"他是對他是說超過的部分要每度要加三要三元但是翡翠水庫的電水比很低啊就是幾乎是五噸水才發一度電所以你如果給我收三元他就成本會變所以他要跟台電收這個一度就是一立方米來說一度因為電也是度啦水也是度啦一立方米的水收三塊錢一立方米有去嗎"},{"start":4582.542,"end":4606.992,"text":"這個我們不在這個耗水費範圍內 而且我跟委員報告其實水力發電沒有把水用掉 它只是因為那個高低差未能 我們只是只是利用那個 利用水的未能沒有把水用掉嘛對 那完全是兩件事情好 謝謝 部長知道了齁今天啊 這個事情是在台北市政府面對自己的市議會面對監察院的糾正"},{"start":4608.814,"end":4618.23,"text":"然後他轉過頭來要發作在台電省上請問台電有沒有供電給台北市有沒有 當然有有沒有收取差別電價"},{"start":4619.758,"end":4640.243,"text":"目前還沒有沒有啊所以做一個國營事業 公用事業他當然水公司你們的水費是不是全國都一致就扣除台北 台北你們管不到對是嗎所以連我們屏東供應最多水給水公司的也一樣對不對好我們現在看來謝謝謝謝來我們來看一下就問水公司了"},{"start":4640.803,"end":4656.232,"text":"屏東自來水的普及率全國最低啊那原因是什麼?簡單講,因為我問過好幾次了根據我報告,其實屏東早期它地下水脈是很豐富地下水豐沛嘛,不用錢的就不用贏嘛,要求錢的就不用贏嘛好,來部長,我要請你拜託部長承諾"},{"start":4660.816,"end":4678.273,"text":"就是說往下看其實呢除了這個之外我們還有水資源的運用效率屏東縣自來水的普及化感謝中央我們這連續幾年來大力的支持前瞻計畫八年那個八千億都有在支持對不對可是前瞻計畫結束了嘛"},{"start":4679.094,"end":4694.608,"text":"接下來經濟部支票繼續爭取編列預算幫助屏東的自來水普及為什麼因為如果下的雨留不住漏的水也擋不了因為屏東的自來水普及率全國最低之外漏水率也是很高的那這個改善需要工程部長怎麼辦"},{"start":4696.029,"end":4721.975,"text":"我們還是會持續啊雖然前瞻預算已經結束了但是有關於這個自來水不管是無自來水也好或是漏水這個部分本來就是水利署不是或者是經濟部還有水公司最重要的工作是的所以我們不忍心看因為這個工程推動受到工程的進度預算的編列我們也希望把這個漏水率把它降低嘛因為水資源是珍貴的嘛"},{"start":4722.355,"end":4750.2,"text":"台北市那麼斤斤計較翡翠水庫的水我們也很計較說我們水公司的水運到用戶之前不要漏掉嘛所以改善漏水率是不是當務之急是好往下看所以呢水公司執行量呢我們看了一下喔113年114年比起來暫比呢位階的水庫啊都還持續的微微的下降那水公司的執行的量能過去有關心過有沒有有沒有辦法再增加除了預算之外有沒有受到我們工程量能的限制"},{"start":4751.175,"end":4775.664,"text":"部長工程量對因為不是說錢你丟給他就會做你要有工班啊所以對董事長跟委員報告其實我們屏東地區啦現在剛才委員所指正的就我們積極在增加一些鹽管而且對既有的老舊的管線也在幫汰換那這些都需要我們的水管承裝商來協助我們是那"},{"start":4776.264,"end":4796.309,"text":"所有屏東區域的廠商確實是還不夠我們會從鄰近的縣市甚至我們會去跟水管商工會請他們多來協助我們屏東地區多來參與我們的標案謝謝部長我要說的是水工是已經全力以赴不只用我們屏東的包商各地區的包商都來支援"},{"start":4796.869,"end":4819.208,"text":"但是報章跟我反映說什麼我們比例是最高的沒有錯我連續問了好幾年了但是如果預算延宕的話我們可不可以發包已經刮槓就刮不腐了你有時候就給我錢錢我是不是把那個時間融入到那個上面部長你了解嗎我知道好在這個是屬於延續性計畫所以不會受影響"},{"start":4820.149,"end":4843.763,"text":"不會受影響所以如果預算不會受影響工期就要趕快的調度工班來加速進行遏止除了提高我們的普及率之外也要遏止這個漏水率好不好好那就請部長指示我們署長指示董事長加速進行還有建議那個曾董事長以後台電在面對台北市的他們都叫我們管理處的處長來跟你們"},{"start":4846.02,"end":4866.673,"text":"這個校正啊 我是希望你們要清楚的回應台電公司使用水 輸入的水來發電不屬於耗水費的範疇 第二耗水費也不是你台北市政府可以主張的 好嗎說清楚講明白 部長可以嗎 可以可以 謝謝好 謝謝鍾嘉斌委員 謝謝部長接下來有請陳廷飛委員質詢"},{"start":4875.919,"end":4876.22,"text":"我們請經濟部長"},{"start":4885.786,"end":4914.04,"text":"陳委員早安部長我們這次丹納斯颱風其實有發現了一個很重大的問題就是我們石棉瓦的一個處理當時候因為我反應之後本來我們的工廠它是沒有補助的最後我們有補助它的一個石棉瓦處理其實為什麼要這個補助它的重點是政府的後端協助"},{"start":4915.478,"end":4931.998,"text":"如果我們政府的後端協助有幫忙石棉瓦的去處我們就可以掌控可是現在基本上我們還有很多石棉瓦還沒有完成清理這個部分要怎麼辦我們工廠也有啊是"},{"start":4933.099,"end":4955.438,"text":"也感謝上次委員的這個協調後來因為陳委員的這個所以我們改成這個每一個廠補助20萬原來是一家公司但是現在是每一個廠都有這是委員的建議我們也採納但是因為當初在這個行政院在跨部會協商的時候這個廢棄物運送是屬於環境部負責"},{"start":4958.922,"end":4974.652,"text":"那我想我們再來跟環境部門看看怎麼樣協調就是說加速因為最主要都是去處的問題其實我們補助是說我們政府有要幫他處理這最末端的一個石棉瓦"},{"start":4975.618,"end":4998.724,"text":"整理還有他能夠這個不會再重複的一個受害因為石棉瓦非常的毒啊是這個問題啊讓他不會是造成二次傷害所以我覺得我們要的是這個後端的去處環境部怎麼幫忙怎麼處理我們地方政府怎麼幫忙"},{"start":4999.864,"end":5012.673,"text":"我們要的是在這個脈絡所以是不是可以拜託我們的部長在這個區塊有企業的有工廠的如果他們還有石棉瓦後端處理還有問題的我們該怎麼辦"},{"start":5015.035,"end":5034.646,"text":"是不是去了解一下 好不好然後也協調這個環境部還有地方政府看怎麼來把這個事情處理掉對 因為我們不要讓它造成二次傷害因為過去可能沒有注意到這麼嚴重的問題可是一個淡納斯颱風之後把整個都吹垮"},{"start":5035.819,"end":5064.989,"text":"逼著大家不去面對不行那既然問題產生了我們要怎麼積極化也是我們相關部會要跨部會協調因為不是我們經濟部就處理得了就像說石明瓦的專業處理是在環境部環境部他怎麼去協調能夠處理的廠商給予一個後端的一個指示這才是我們的關鍵所以拜託我們的部長"},{"start":5065.849,"end":5091.016,"text":"那再來我們這個115年我們的公建計劃重要的公建計劃其實我們有幾個其實從台電到台水到水利署可能都是我們跟經濟部比較關係的好我們的台電包括我們南區的一起輸變電專案計劃南科超高壓變電所擴建計劃還有變電所診所的"},{"start":5094.637,"end":5109.082,"text":"改建一期專案計畫這個部分我們到底進行到什麼程度是只有等預算嗎來我們的董事長跟委員報告因為我們是實業單位那我們還是會做一些提前的規劃"},{"start":5110.763,"end":5125.226,"text":"但是就是預算的審查當然我們一些新興計畫尤其是計畫性的支出如果沒有審過我們只能夠要提報上級機關准我們提前動之那我事業單位是彈性比較大一點但是還是要補很多行政程序"},{"start":5126.107,"end":5143.896,"text":"所以我們這幾樣這個部分我們已經都有初期的整個計畫跟規劃了所以只要我們的預算一到位那基本上是沒有問題的我們跟委員報告那個您都知道因為您也是關心我們電力建設其實我們現在狀況就是"},{"start":5144.716,"end":5155.789,"text":"我們可以先走 基本上我們就先走啦狀況就是這個樣子那預算的部分如果你是計劃支出計劃性的支出那那個就一定要經過國會的審議但是還是針對"},{"start":5159.753,"end":5183.519,"text":"先期作業可以先做的所以這三樣都是我們地方非常重要的喔南區一起輸變電的專案計畫還有南科超高壓變電所擴建計畫還有變電所的一個改建一起專案計畫這都很重要喔所以這個部分只要我們預算一過應該就沒有問題了吧"},{"start":5185.299,"end":5212.484,"text":"因為前期作業都已經做了這個拜託要幫我們加緊因為我們現在是現在是4月了所以我們預算過了已經到5月6月了所以我們希望是同步進行了還有我們的台水就是我們降低漏水率的計畫這個是從114年到121年還有五自來水地區供水改善計畫的第五期"},{"start":5213.644,"end":5233.303,"text":"喔 好不容易欸 你知道嗎 從第一期我們撐到第五期欸董事長 這應該都沒有問題 也一樣我們的規劃都已經在上路了 只是在等這個預算吧延續計畫 所以我們可以有比較好的進度啦但是因為預算還沒有過 所以會稍微保守一點"},{"start":5233.983,"end":5262.521,"text":"對 所以說只要現在預算過了我們要加速趕快預算過好不容易送送到各委員會來審了好 趕快過了之後我們會加緊腳步吧我覺得這很重要雖然我們立法院因為政黨之間的問題可是我覺得不要影響到我們在地方的發展這才是最重要的那麼還有一個就是水利署的部分其實我要拜託的就是說我們"},{"start":5263.482,"end":5289.919,"text":"台南說真的 如果沒有從過去的八年八百億一路的延伸治水預算的一些特別預算 前瞻預算 我跟你講啦現在可能我們陰乾眯眯冒冒但是因為有這些預算 很多人都說 阿不然你們是做在哪裡 我跟你講啦 如果不做這裡啦我看台南啦 只要一下雨就是水箱折果了啦"},{"start":5290.852,"end":5308.993,"text":"所以因為有做了這些規劃然後我們現在都有一些關鍵的地方需要靠著我們經濟部的這些預算所以我一直在強調一些關鍵性的我們要盤整一下我現在也在拜託市政府做盤整"},{"start":5310.154,"end":5336.373,"text":"就是關鍵性 我們現在做到很多個月可是有哪些關鍵性做下去之後 馬上就解決了一期 二期 不論是哪一個主要計畫的一期 二期 三期那個關鍵做下去 整個就都通了這個才是讓人民有感的所以我拜託 我們一定要從這些我請市政府盤整完之後這些重要的關鍵 盲腸斷了"},{"start":5339.375,"end":5363.947,"text":"這些通了之後就沒問題的這個部分一定要優先這一定要優先這個可能要拜託我們的部長還有水利署署長我們在整個中央管流域的整體改善還有調適計劃我常在舉我們的曾文熙我們的白水系統你看我們做了多久到現在這個地方通了整個就覺得好像"},{"start":5367.489,"end":5387.335,"text":"整個地方都看到所有的曙光了所以這才是問題還有我們因應氣候變遷縣市管河川及排水整體改善計畫這兩個計畫都是關鍵雖然我們前面的中央管是從110年到115年"},{"start":5390.51,"end":5418.372,"text":"剛好到今年我相信後面都還會有延續啦可是這個都是關鍵然後呢因應氣候變遷縣市管河川及排水整體改善計畫是從115年到118年多對今年開始啦所以所以這個新的要從哪邊關鍵做起這個才是關鍵再拜託我們的部長跟署長謝謝"},{"start":5421.598,"end":5446.335,"text":"好 謝謝陳廷輝委員謝謝部長接下來有請鄭天才委員質詢好 主席有請部長有請工部長經濟部的會計處處長也上來會計處處長"},{"start":5452.129,"end":5457.214,"text":"蔣委員早安部長好今天這個審查預算"},{"start":5459.534,"end":5470.162,"text":"我們看這個今天經濟部的報告裡面特別提到稅出預算編列情形總共編列了這個1480.28億然後較上年度增加350.02億請問一下這個會計處的處長去年呢去年度經濟部主管的預算執行數是多少"},{"start":5491.215,"end":5518.769,"text":"執行率就是執行數就是乘以98.57執行數也可以換算一下好沒關係再順便補充執行數這個好我們來看預算法第54條規定很清楚這個支出的部分瓜福二"},{"start":5519.924,"end":5537.174,"text":"上年度执行数何时动之也就是说这个经济部114年度的执行数虽然我们在115年度的总预算还没有通过但是上年度的执行数可以动之"},{"start":5538.164,"end":5563.871,"text":"大概一千億左右吧所以很多所以現在才四月嘛所以應該應該很充裕然後呢這個履行其他法定義務之收支這個一樣最重要的大家一直很關心的新興資本支出及新增計劃經立法院同意者不在此限"},{"start":5565.14,"end":5591.521,"text":"所以這個會計處處長未來以後通常1月完成預算整查通常立法院1月超過1月的時候就要提醒部長新興資本支出及新增計劃函報行政院轉立法院同意就不會有問題就如同因為你們沒有報"},{"start":5592.867,"end":5615.9,"text":"所以國民黨團跟民眾黨團在今年的1月16號比你們還早比審議算的時間還早1月16號就提出新興資本這個需要先行同意經濟部主管的總共有四項總共134.75億"},{"start":5621.772,"end":5631.397,"text":"啊這已經這個立法院同意商業出了所同意動之請問一下部長這個行政院發文了嗎"},{"start":5633.137,"end":5659.011,"text":"昨天發文 昨天發文主計總署很早就發文行政院主計總署很早就發文擺在院長的桌上很久啊如果是我當部長我就會拜託那個院長趕快批啊 趕快批啊因為很多委員都說尤其是民進黨的立委都說這個很重要很重要所以這個部分以後要多多溝通協調了好這個"},{"start":5663.646,"end":5679.375,"text":"經濟部的一般性補助款預算請問一下會計處處長這個部長比較不會知道這個一般性補助款114年度跟115年度有沒有什麼差別"},{"start":5681.327,"end":5708.217,"text":"報告委員我先補充一下剛才委員垂詢的數字我們去年執行的數字大概是1,120億那委員提到的一般性補助款大概我們是跟去年的預算看起來去年是編在經濟部整個放在經濟部那今年把所有對地方的補助款單獨拉到一般性補助款所以大概很多都是延續性的計畫好沒有什麼變動嗎大部分都延續性了好謝謝好"},{"start":5711.776,"end":5739.049,"text":"這個中央對直轄市及縣市政府補助辦法這個也請經濟這個水利署署長也上來這個辦法定得很清楚對於這個第三條的第一項的第一款中央各機關依財力即次給不同補助比例且最高補助比例不得超過90%但有下一個情形是一則不在此限有三個部分"},{"start":5739.534,"end":5768.356,"text":"我今天要特別談的原住民族重要建設計畫可以超過90%按照這個條文的是可以超過90%好奔溪在今年1月21號召開協調會針對台東縣的無自來水地區供水改善計畫這個相關的沿管還有這個系統這簡易自來水系統"},{"start":5769.97,"end":5781.291,"text":"營運的補助這個補助啊這個部長那個你們減少了對台東縣的補助是零喔"},{"start":5782.543,"end":5798.924,"text":"因為主要是我先說明一下自來水鹽管那個是水公司他付的錢所以是民眾地方政府不用付那另外就是其他的部分包括檢疫自來水或等等因為台東台東縣他就是已經被評為他這個"},{"start":5801.246,"end":5818.076,"text":"財政是第一級是最好的狀況因為他原來從這個統籌分配款從60億變成281億部長我都了解理由啦你們的理由我都了解但是我要說明的是說剛才條文訂得很清楚"},{"start":5819.332,"end":5849.052,"text":"援助民族重要建設計畫可以超過90%何況以前也沒有那麼高所以我們只是希望你們維持我們有跟行政院做一些討論如果真的有必要因為您剛才提到那個第三項可以簽給行政院專簽那我們會用這個方式不用專簽你看一下行政院主計總署答覆本席的公文針對我1月21號的公文的會議記錄答覆了"},{"start":5850.833,"end":5877.43,"text":"是否屬補助辦法第三條但屬鎖定原住民族重要建設計畫能由各主管機關自行認定所以經濟部可以來認定而且它確實是為什麼呢在去年呢你們都把它列為原住民族建設經費列為原住民族建設經費所以可以是符合那個辦法的第三條而且"},{"start":5879.189,"end":5894.156,"text":"台東縣我們整個台灣 全台灣包括金門 馬祖 離島供水普及率90%以上的有19個直轄市縣市19個未達90%的有5個縣市其中台東縣只有83.9%所以這個部分更是需要列為"},{"start":5909.152,"end":5930.006,"text":"維持我們不講說90%以上至於起碼維持去年以前的補助的比例部長可以趕快核定嗎主席總書雖然講說可以我們調整但是還是要送到他那邊去那就趕快簽請經濟部水利署趕快簽這個非常非常的重要"},{"start":5937.472,"end":5954.999,"text":"最後這個經濟委員會在113年曾經去會刊到台東這是一個已經很久了的老案子而且是有提防 已經有提防在題內"},{"start":5957.213,"end":5978.524,"text":"所以這個部分你們當初說這個富岡南段1052地號這是我們原住民祖先使用的土地就是因為你們把它列為河川漆液內所以一直沒有辦法取得原住民保留地然後這個事實上它是在"},{"start":5979.744,"end":6004.964,"text":"和有堤防啊 這幾十年的堤防在那邊呢好 署長趕快處理報告委員 這個案件城門委員的幫忙 幫忙很多我們現在那個治理計畫已經檢討完成那正在做最後的河川區限劃出去的一個程序那預期7月份就可以把這個土地劃出去就會變成不適合河川地 沒有問題謝謝委員的指導好 加油加油 好 謝謝"},{"start":6006.769,"end":6027.391,"text":"好 謝謝鄭天才委員謝謝部長 接下來有請謝依鳳委員質詢好 謝謝主席 我想要請部長 請郭部長"},{"start":6034.645,"end":6059.698,"text":"部長早安我想請教一下你們在115年度編列了210.57億對於國人用電就是在ASCO的部分那我想請問你這一筆預算要怎麼分配以及執行過去郭部長在講他說這個ASCO他是希望能夠用"},{"start":6060.538,"end":6082.115,"text":"就是節省下來的電費來支付相關的廠商的服務費然後有致償性那現在是不是維持原樣以及未來要怎麼樣子來促進廠商跟這個節能技術服務單位的這樣子的媒合怎麼樣做呢"},{"start":6082.515,"end":6099.946,"text":"也包括委員那個200多億主要它有幾個項目不是只有Exco而已它還有再增能源強化電網韌性還有智慧電網等等一些情況那Exco的部分是深度節能那個部分那我們有補助廠商來做我是不是請那個署長"},{"start":6103.208,"end":6128.705,"text":"跟委員報告那個補助廠商的部分就是我們現在有個計畫就是說未來他引入X口他如果有節電的話我們會相對給他一些獎勵措施那這個在今年預算有編列那編列多少那你怎麼樣做你怎麼樣子讓就是說讓那些技術單位去協助廠商呢協助我們真正需要的廠商來做這樣節能的那個方式呢"},{"start":6129.065,"end":6151.886,"text":"他就是進去以後他會比如說幫他做節能診斷然後可能要做一些劑量然後他要去劃一個基線然後那你是不是有分區啊分區來做還是怎麼樣子做我印象是好像是我們是一個整個的然後業者可以來申請這個細節部分我會再跟委員一個報告"},{"start":6152.978,"end":6180.671,"text":"好 那你看你現在都沒有準備好是不是我們現在已經開始要審預算了你這相關的計畫以及你相關做到什麼程度你都沒有準備好是不是有計畫補助好 那還有我想要請問部長就是你對於波普石油基金辦理住宅的家電效率升級就是在家戶的屋頂設置太陽能光電可是你知道嗎"},{"start":6181.691,"end":6206.49,"text":"現在太陽能光電目前有面臨到的第一個我們過去的就是說光電板是不是它的光電的發電的效率能夠足夠以及現在設立光電板會不會造成就是臨近的就是零幣設施的這樣子的一個抗議或者是申請那有沒有辦法達到相關的目標呢"},{"start":6208.07,"end":6231.052,"text":"屋頂型爭議比較小啦當然就是說效率提升的部分我們技術上是持續在進行希望他那個太陽能板的這個發電的轉換效率可以提升那當然現在也有一些新的規定比如說將來新的這個比較大型的這個建築這個1000平方公尺以上"},{"start":6231.933,"end":6254.134,"text":"事實上他必須要設置這個太陽能板也有這樣的規定那以下我們當然是用鼓勵的方式就用這個輔助鼓勵的方式那但是就是說你這樣子在加護設立太陽能板那有沒有難道能夠有助於就是說現在太陽能光電的這樣子整個在再生能源佔比的目標的達成嗎"},{"start":6255.317,"end":6271.027,"text":"事實上我們現在整個太陽能的裝置容量事實上是屋頂型還超過地面型就是整個來講的話是這個屋頂型是超過地面型那在家戶呢"},{"start":6272.97,"end":6288.806,"text":"家戶的部分到屋頂形式就是有很多的那個現在我們主要還是針對這個比較大戶的部分那我剛才特別提到家戶的部分如果是比較小面積我們是用鼓勵的方式用補助的方式"},{"start":6289.807,"end":6303.54,"text":"那補助的方式會不會就是說當然我們要補助也希望說能夠提高發電效率那這個部分你怎麼樣做因為你總是要讓加護的太陽能光電能夠達到一個目標那你們預計達成的目標是什麼"},{"start":6305.842,"end":6331.565,"text":"那那個署長咧 有沒有預計達成目標跟委員報告一下 那個小用戶的部分因為他面積比較小 他不像其他比較大面積的那你預計他達成你整個太陽能關電裡面的佔比的目標是多少我們現在 原來我們是屋頂型的全部是8G我們現在已經到10G了那我們還有繼續滾動檢討 把屋頂型的部分再加強"},{"start":6332.485,"end":6350.912,"text":"我們現在補助小屋頂是因為小屋頂它的成本比較高因為它屋頂面積小施工比較麻煩所以我們有另外給它補助那另外如果是你自發自用型的我們還會加強補助就是鼓勵民眾去捨然後增強它自己的供電韌性那我是說你目標是多少嗎"},{"start":6351.952,"end":6380.19,"text":"我們現在是你沒有目標是不是我們現在原來的8G已經達成了那我們現在已經超過了那我們後續會滾動檢討所以你希望就是能增加嘛對不對你要增加多少啊我們現在有在繼續檢討當中因為我們現在主力就是希望屋頂能夠多推一點所以你還是沒有想到就是一個比較明確的目標還是部長沒有給你目標"},{"start":6382.587,"end":6405.912,"text":"因為他們原來設定的目標當然已經超過了但是現在就是能夠超過多少越多當然是越好那預計可以超過多少因為這涉及到就是說各個縣市那未來如果要推動這樣子的政策的時候那你相關的協助以及就是經濟部你的力道是多大我們再來規劃一下"},{"start":6408.353,"end":6427.16,"text":"还有就是我看到了科专计划增列了68.23亿对于IC设计以及无人机关键技术的开发那我想请教一下无人机的非红供应链里面目前你关键技术的自给率目标是多少"},{"start":6429.072,"end":6456.067,"text":"將來希望可以達到百分之百都可以自己做想要做百分之百就是自己能夠做當然廠商他也可以用飛鴻的零件都可以但是至少我們自己要能夠做那可是我看到你編列不會受到說人家不供應的時候我們產生困難這樣子那對我看到的是你們好像只有編列6點多億嘛這是一個整個項目嘛可是無人機的部分是不是"},{"start":6457.837,"end":6473.289,"text":"因為無人機的部分事實上它是我們負責是一個統籌型的計畫但是它的預算不是全部編在我們經濟部不是在我們經濟部不是全部因為其他的部會採買的部分是編在其他的部會對 可是經濟部也"},{"start":6473.669,"end":6495.989,"text":"就是說我在問的是關鍵技術的部分因為經濟部對於他技術的協助以及就是說對於整個產業鏈是不是能夠有效的建立起來那我相信這是經濟部比較著重以及需要做的部分是 我們今年編的是技術的部分技術的是38億"},{"start":6498.111,"end":6517.605,"text":"對是38億不是6億是38億是不是那所以你們希望達成的目標是整個我們無人機的所有的關鍵技術都可以自給自足對都可以自己至少能夠對於飛鴻供應鏈裡面那還有我們還有其他競爭的對手"},{"start":6520.038,"end":6536.429,"text":"現在很多人都要跟我們合作包括中東歐的國家波蘭、捷克事實上我們出口很多那現在連法國也要跟我們合作都願意跟我們千年莫一無來做一些合作因為他們知道台灣在製造能力跟量產能力是非常強的"},{"start":6537.29,"end":6556.108,"text":"那未來我們量產能力呢?那對於產業的整個供應鏈,就是說產業的產值呢?產值我們希望將來到400億啦那因為我們其實講到的無人機的就是飛鴻供應鏈當然不是只講就是我們講的還有一些是商用機嘛,對不對?"},{"start":6558.55,"end":6571.156,"text":"也有在商用不只有在軍工現在大家在討論的軍工的部分嘛其實有一部分也在商用的部分嘛那在商用的部分就是說飛鴻供應鏈有它什麼立即點因為它還是要有資訊安全的問題啦所以能夠飛鴻的話"},{"start":6581.514,"end":6597.14,"text":"當然這些國家也都願意因為它有些還是公務用途雖然不是軍事用途但是比如說警察的巡檢或者是水利設施的巡檢等等一些情況這些都是屬於公務用途那"},{"start":6598.46,"end":6623.893,"text":"所以我觉得就是说经济部那如果真的要协助就是说国内厂商然后以及相关的领主建都可以达到就是说都可以进入这整个全球的这个非红供应链的这个体系里面那我觉得那以目前经济部所做的那希望说你们能够真的达到百分之百因为从目前看起来好像离百分之百是不是还有点距离"},{"start":6625.294,"end":6644.352,"text":"所以我們希望現在有幾個晶片的開發那剩下是在進行當然有一些有一些廠商已經在開發了我們就用業界科專來補助他們跟他們做一些合作那國內還沒有一些廠商這些技術上ready我們就請公務員先來做開發然後再寄轉給他們"},{"start":6647.435,"end":6668.871,"text":"還有就是中小企業要導入AI這個部分其實中小企業還有非常大的疑慮因為第一個就是過去沒有接觸過或者是就是AI data的資料庫建立上面不是那麼樣子的有辦法立即所以你們有編了144億請問你這個就是怎麼樣子協助中小企業導入"},{"start":6673.095,"end":6681.331,"text":"8委員我們現在有一個所謂的這個競爭力的一些輔導團那大概有20幾個法人共同來參與那分的"},{"start":6684.857,"end":6703.751,"text":"就是北中南東有分了四個區域事實上我們是主動的去了解中小企業需要怎麼樣設計轉型可是中小企業有一百多萬家是不是是所以我們有分區域啊那有需要的部分先做診斷等等一些情況那有一些中小企業說老實話因為他的業務事實上是比較單純所以用"},{"start":6706.473,"end":6722.94,"text":"線上的這個APP就可以服務他們那這個佔有那我們會跟他的這個你會分別類會盤點好嗎會因為他們有一些只要需要他們在這個減碳的部分是需要減碳那我們就減碳跟這個數位轉型一起幫他"},{"start":6724.02,"end":6750.411,"text":"那事實上很多的中小企業是有這樣的我是認為你們應該要先分門別類因為目前中小企業對於政府要推動這個AI的導入的部分他們認為在協助上面好像沒有那麼立即沒有像過去在產業設備升級這個部分這樣子非常有立竿見影的效果那未來在AI導入的協助的部分那也希望我們經濟部能夠"},{"start":6752.692,"end":6770.56,"text":"想出一個比較好的方式第一個如果在怎麼樣子的情況下什麼樣的規模情況下可以用APP的方式什麼樣的情況下是由法人來共同協助的嗎是有分就是我們會了解這個廠商他事實上導入AI他還是有分等級啊"},{"start":6771.46,"end":6797.312,"text":"他可能他的作業型他比較單純的可能就是比較單純的但是有一些是製造商他需要用AI的方式提升他的製造效率那我們就會請法人進駐然後改善他的製程對啊我們還是要把我們就是AI導入協助應該還是要救傳產以及就是我們中小企業為主好不好以中小企業而且分成44個次產業"},{"start":6799.389,"end":6806.093,"text":"好 沒關係 因為時間超時太長 好 謝謝不好意思好 謝謝謝毓芬委員接下來請呂一林委員質詢謝謝主席 請工部長請工部長呂委員好"},{"start":6830.51,"end":6837.336,"text":"過去大陸透過了貿易壁壘的調查以及檢驗我們的產品為由對我們壓迫了農產品跟工商產品的出口近期內我們看到大陸也提出了10項會台的措施希望能夠重新釋出善意"},{"start":6852.389,"end":6854.692,"text":"前天我們全國商總特別也為了此事開了這個記者會呼籲政府能夠以產業的發展跟人民的福祉為本正面的來回應大陸但是我們經濟部卻是擺出了非常強硬的態度認為我們台灣"},{"start":6870.652,"end":6885.412,"text":"經濟已經走出自己的路了照這樣子的看法部長是不是你們就認為說台灣是有本錢完全能夠放棄中國大陸這個貿易的關係不是我們沒有要放棄跟中國的經貿關係"},{"start":6886.874,"end":6892.098,"text":"是分散這個多元市場的開發因為大陸是我們出口的第二大的國家佔了我們26.64%所以我們在這種情形之下當然剛剛部長都提到了我們還要做的就是要分散風險但是產業的新生也請你們要去聽產業希望"},{"start":6913.215,"end":6940.103,"text":"他是希望你們能夠永續健康的來讓我們的貿易關係啊可以尋求一個可行的方式這很重要吧所以你這樣來這樣去也擺脫不了這個關係啊畢竟是第二大出口國家所以我們不是說刻意的要跟他斷絕關係沒有這樣的意思是說我們要多一點市場的開發比如說像我們之前對美談判的時候我們也希望就是說廠商可以開發歐洲市場"},{"start":6940.703,"end":6944.244,"text":"所以我們也希望你們也可以回應我們產業的心聲啦重視一下正式產業的心聲好不好來輔導他們可以走上國際更好的競爭力好不好那剛剛提到說我們要分散風險跟拓展多元的這個佈局要協助我們產業走出這個一些可以獨立在有新的這個立基點"},{"start":6964.571,"end":6990.785,"text":"所以我們政府是最關鍵目前要準備的課題那尤其是在2024年的時候我們經濟部有提出境外觀內的觀念在2024年的年底的時候在捷克就成立了台灣的貿易投資中心的正式的接牌這個境外觀內現在就是有四個國家了對不對境外觀內 現在有對 境外的這個服務生平那最近 這今年有沒有在要在其他國家要提出"},{"start":6991.865,"end":7009.054,"text":"這個台灣貿易中心投資的貿易中心美國應該會增加因為美國這麼大就是我們廠商去那邊有投資我們要就近服務那個聚落慢慢形成了我們就會在那邊成立一個服務中心來服務我們的台商所以除了美國還有哪裡"},{"start":7010.808,"end":7022.841,"text":"原來就是波蘭嘛然後還有捷克嘛捷克第一個就成立啦捷克也會再增加嗎沒有就是捷克一個嘛已經有四個啦我說會再增加就是美國一個嗎美國會再增加其他的地方呢"},{"start":7028.041,"end":7035.468,"text":"目前是目前是美國會再增加一個就這樣子目前而已我們希望能夠多一點海外的投資服務的中心給他們一站式的服務輔導他們在國際上的競爭能夠有利基點那尤其是這個境外關內在"},{"start":7047.119,"end":7069.21,"text":"之前郭志輝部長的時候他就提到了而且他有提到說就是菲律賓我們要投資到產業園區那這個事情的話在當年的時候就已經很多的準備工作都到了最後的評估那今年二月的時候我們經濟部還有說會繼續推動但據我的瞭解部內的人來說可能暫緩了請問是什麼原因"},{"start":7071.631,"end":7081.846,"text":"沒有現在是我們上次主要是工種還蠻有興趣的那我們就是跟工種有去了一趟菲律賓來考察那在菲律賓會繼續推動嗎會"},{"start":7084.883,"end":7101.264,"text":"會 這個也有可能會跟美國那為什麼部內的人說暫緩了不推動了我們跟美國也會共同的來合作那你們內部人不動作也不做了那你部長在這邊說要做那是不是內部要先檢討一下多元市場的開拓我們都可以了解所以部長去了解你們內部人告訴我已經暫緩不做了"},{"start":7102.608,"end":7131.214,"text":"你要去了解喔好不然你這邊一頭熱在做你內部人都停擺不住對我來了解一下應該還是會持續因為最重要是這個境內這個我們的那個境外官內的工作可能這個這個名字是不是叫境內官外怕誤解但是好都是會是用境境外官內啦到了您的廣播長要換一個名字我們也不介意啦反正他的實質作為就是我們在海外共同的要換名字而已啦是不是"},{"start":7132.441,"end":7143.985,"text":"有這麼重要一定要換名字嗎不是就是海外開拓這個產業園區這個部分是一定會去做的是繼續做名稱換過而已啦對您的意思到你就要換一下名稱啦好"},{"start":7146.553,"end":7168.164,"text":"重要 企業物要去繼續的推展在4月20號的時候美國他用呂宋島他們就要成立一個產業園區你知道嗎我知道他4月20號有公布所以我們希望我們趕快的我們要繼續推動因為我們希望說這個在菲律賓設立這個產業園區的話可以讓我們強化跟美國跟東協國家的經濟連結這是很重要的是不是很關鍵的所以要繼續推動"},{"start":7176.328,"end":7180.719,"text":"好不好那接下來就是我們要提到的因為"},{"start":7182.099,"end":7207.024,"text":"中國大陸要報復美國的這個高關稅的所以宣布12月這個稀土要管制出口後來說要延一年的時間要延長一年的時間那延長一年時間但是我們知道這個稀土是我們無人間很重要的這個材料而且也是我們在軍事跟我們民生領域上運用非常多的所以這稀土很重要我們應該要有一個機制就像儲備的機制"},{"start":7211.625,"end":7230.636,"text":"讓我們的稀土能夠不要斷炊不要沒有這個稀土那我們溫能機的整個工業會受到很大很大的影響是不是是 所以我們現在已經請供應院因為它這個公斤級的這個產線大概已經有試煉過已經成功 對那我們現在要把它這個產能可以擴大擴大 好"},{"start":7232.737,"end":7252.855,"text":"所以說目前我們每年需要的稀土量是1500公斤嘛工研院研究說現在他用稀土回收的方式稀土回收是一部分一部分而已對一部分其他還是要用原礦進來是所以因為這個稀土需要高純度的提煉出來這個稀土所以這個"},{"start":7253.496,"end":7276.449,"text":"如果技術方面的話還要請工研院盡量的科技上可以再提升一點但是在去年10月的時候部長你這邊有表示說2030年之前可以讓我們稀土的自給率可以達到30%在今年的2月喔你又提說在2029年這個國內的稀土自給率可以達到50%部長請問一下"},{"start":7280.571,"end":7302.889,"text":"經過三四個月你就可以從30%提升到50%那你說這不是工研院的技術提升那是什麼原因這個就是我們就是把目標提高了因為看起來這個做得到嗎 要得到嗎因為工研院給我們承諾說可以工研院承諾了那工研院請出來一下是技術提升了嗎沒有 它主要是產能的擴大產能 它產能在哪裡來呢"},{"start":7308.897,"end":7330.299,"text":"產能不是不是你只要有原料進來因為我們這個原料工廠建置完成我們大部分的九成的稀土都在大陸進來對不對那現在未來我們會從美國是不是礦源的部分可以多元從美國加拿大澳洲未來是在美國對不對美國有澳洲也有可能加拿大也有多元的國家會進來"},{"start":7331.46,"end":7356.463,"text":"您知不知道稀土有很多種的稀土那無人機的稀土也不一樣喔美國雖然說有很多種的稀土的項目但是我們要的是無人機的那美國會供應嗎美國它自己的量夠嗎原來它是一個原礦嘛原礦我們做的是精煉的部分那這個精煉原礦進來工業院就可以提煉出來嗎"},{"start":7359.225,"end":7378.459,"text":"請問工研院一下 你們技術到了部長剛剛很有信心說你們的產能可以提高到50%我跟委員報告一下現在目前的目標我們現在目前的這個實驗線是年產5噸 5000公斤那現在是經濟部要support我們在2028年會完成年產量500噸稀土"},{"start":7381.361,"end":7404.349,"text":"那個市產線那會繼續開發那個製程技術到了2030年會完成年產量500噸的工廠那年產量500噸的稀土可以做成1500噸的磁鐵跟委員報告一下那現在主要是我們技術師的提供機會讓工業研發的那主要三個兩個主要元素都是為了磁鐵"},{"start":7405.249,"end":7424.084,"text":"其中一個是那個紐尼典 另外一個是Disposium主要是這兩個啦 這兩個是做磁鐵用的喔 謝謝好 所以部長所以我們應該趕快的把這個儲備的制度建立起來才能夠去應應這個訊息萬變的這個國際情勢 好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝余玲委員待會楊瓊英委員質詢完畢之後休息8分鐘"},{"start":7435.444,"end":7449.119,"text":"有請楊瓊英委員質詢謝謝主席 楊瓊英發言 我們再請部長請龔部長 謝謝"},{"start":7456.075,"end":7462.341,"text":"在我們討論AI新時代建設那國發會統籌了我們國科會還有最重要的經濟部 蘇發部一起來推動那我們也預計在2040年之前政府要投入1000億的資金來培植50萬的人才那麼同時要希望能夠創造的15兆的產值"},{"start":7482.578,"end":7495.981,"text":"所以在115年我們這一年度的預算裡頭的編列是280億包括了加上營業及非營業基金的特種基金的部分31億換句話說今年我們會投入311億比去年度的168億等於是增加了143億是84.8%"},{"start":7505.823,"end":7528.823,"text":"那換句話說就是政府也正式的進入到推動全面推動了AI建設的一個加強執行的一個階段那所以目前我們看到幾乎這個順利中心都數集中在南科國防中心還有北部但是如果要達成區域均衡的話呢我們知道在115年度的預算裡頭我們需要請教部長"},{"start":7532.066,"end":7553.76,"text":"中部地區是所有精密園區是所有的產業鏈最完整的最完整的所以這個有加成的一個作用所以本席首先要請教部長在115年度的預算裡頭你有分配給多少台中以及研究單位你們的規劃請報委員我想台中市以精密機械"},{"start":7561.678,"end":7582.343,"text":"是重症所以它對於不管是AI的相關的設備也好或零組件也好或是未來五大信貸產業所有的零組件很多都是中部地區的廠商它進入研發提供的那我們會強化這個部分包括矽光子也是一樣將來很多的這些零組件"},{"start":7583.163,"end":7609.618,"text":"都會是在台中地區來做你的西光子 量子電腦 智慧機器人無人載具 主權AI 算力建設智慧政府 資料治理 人才培育都必須是在中部地區而且中部地區最具備能力對 它很多都是需要機械的協助對 那請問115年度你預計你預算給中部地區怎麼做分配"},{"start":7610.058,"end":7626.438,"text":"我們倒不是說一定說已經先由上而下分好 而是說我們是申請這個不是分好嘛 那你總是有你的KPI嘛我們鼓勵他來申請全力支持在中部地區來發展一定啊 因為他一定好 那尤其在無人機的部分對"},{"start":7627.599,"end":7641.524,"text":"在無人機的部分這也是一帶聯繫的一個產業鏈所以無人機的部分呢本席也希望你們現在只有本席希望是全台一起來啊常常忘記了我們的中部網"},{"start":7642.495,"end":7657.652,"text":"你剛剛部長已經說了啊他是所有產業鏈的尤其是精密機器的重鎮啊不會那個報告委員我們現在有一個無人機的這個產業聯盟二百六十幾家他的龍頭企業就是漢翔"},{"start":7658.692,"end":7686.224,"text":"所以龍頭就是暗箱更要著重在我們整個中部的龍頭的一個帶動到全國甚至全世界啊所以每個縣市它都有它的角色比如說嘉義它主要是一個場域的部分但是聯盟的部分顯然這個龍頭廠商是在台中所以一定要往這個方向我們努力的來帶動讓這個AI機器人的一個驗證場域在台中整個蓬勃發展"},{"start":7687.148,"end":7702.679,"text":"你認同嗎可以可以所以不管在資源或者是研究單位因為這個不只是硬體設備的部分軟體的設備人力的一個培訓都非常的重要所以我敬請政府全力的支持在中部地區的一個發展會的會的會的好那接下來我們再繼續討論水很重要翡翠水庫經過了7年這個議題給給給部長因為這個"},{"start":7715.973,"end":7741.146,"text":"我們看到喔經過了一直在檢討7度的一個正式喊請台電也就是耗水率的問題因為每一年有5億嘛每一年有5億公噸的水那這個問題一直7度的韓文到底耗水率會不會給他們啦 耗水費啊這個5億噸裡面事實上如果以台電用的額外用的只有115萬"},{"start":7744.267,"end":7764.302,"text":"只有115萬所以這個絕大部分4億多這個不是台電因為位差哇 那你台電必須要跟人家地方政府要講清楚喔你媒體也這麼寫人家給你這個指證的也是如此為什麼七度到現在還講不清楚那這有問題喔部長把這個問題部長把這個問題去理清楚你一直有講人家一直不清楚方法要改"},{"start":7772.989,"end":7792.502,"text":"去把這個問題理清楚本席也不希望如此因為水很重要也不希望浪費掉我們也沒有浪費我們有一個共識點不要浪費那台電的董事長也在這邊你們去把它理清楚好不好不要讓社會大眾一直疑慮一直疑慮這不是我們民主政府應該"},{"start":7794.144,"end":7817.558,"text":"要去解決啊對不對不是讓民眾一直疑慮嗎要去解決好不好專案去討論完結果怎麼樣告訴這個資料給本席接下來本席還是要跟部長討論一個議題AI的運用那我們看到中小企業因為中部地區也是我們中小企業最蓬勃發展的當然署長很努力"},{"start":7818.178,"end":7834.299,"text":"也跟我們中小企業都一直在結盟在努力以大帶小以整個工會的一個立場去帶它裡面的會員所以我們陸續有一些這個成效出來了不管是AI人力的一個培訓我們幾乎一場次60個人是秒殺"},{"start":7836.621,"end":7842.284,"text":"那他們也希望繼續我也很感謝我們譬如說譚雅神工商協進會還有我們碳排的ESG的一個協會他們都願意努力這樣子去推動讓這個成效可以出來但是我們看到一個結果一個調查也就是你自己在去年的時候AI應用的調查你高達了93.1%的中小企業不準備招募AI的這個專業人才"},{"start":7864.014,"end":7879.399,"text":"而且他願意在兩年內招募者僅有多少2.9%那跟我們心所願的似乎是背道而馳那為什麼會產生如此因為你們現在給的數字很好看但是不是實際因為你們說到3月底輔導了2,058家導入AI中小企業是達到91%有4,800家的中小企業要聘這個但是"},{"start":7889.002,"end":7910.895,"text":"我們總共的中小企業有多少 167萬假如果以實際的數字那個是為乎其為啊對不對所以難怪你的調查結果是如此那麼現在似乎大家有一個印記也就是目前我們政府所推動的是只有在導入工具而不願真正的聘人那所以表示我們的結果還達不到我們的KPI我們的"},{"start":7919.739,"end":7941.984,"text":"這個意願跟需求量所以部長本身要請教喔你們一方面說是給我們的數據是2000多家而已所以比例當然很高但是我們要實際面看到政治的問題167萬家的中小企業其實他真正願意要導入的是個位數"},{"start":7943.204,"end":7956.23,"text":"是個位數包園他他要導入但是他不一定會要聘用專業人才他可能他的因為他業務如果比較簡單的話他只要有一個APP他會使用就好他不要多聘請一個專業的人來"},{"start":7958.791,"end":7963.352,"text":"這個就是本期一直在討論的我們對還好你最後講了一個分類我們不是只有碰到問題去搪塞問題啊而是你碰到問題面對問題去解決問題嘛是不是這樣子對不對你把它分好你去盤點好因為我們真正的除了剛開始"},{"start":7980.877,"end":7987.162,"text":"不是只有運用AI而且還要真正的用AI的人才啊這個才是我們要一直培訓才能夠跟世界來接軌嘛是不是你盤疊好給本席不要再去運用美化數字167萬家的中小企業我們"},{"start":7999.091,"end":8005.354,"text":"竟然用兩千零多少加來說你已經達到91%那跟事實的現況是不一樣的啊我們要去面對事實的現況好不好我們才有辦法跟世界來接軌嘛來最後一個議題部長你在4月20號你還好你坦白說出了因為本席一直在跟歷任的部長在討論你的再生能源都未達標"},{"start":8025.985,"end":8028.847,"text":"每一個部長都告訴我們真的沒有達標我們不希望的部長是每一次上台換人都跟我們說我的確沒達標這不是民眾要的你的問題你要去面對啊所以本期來跟你討論你是有時候你說了"},{"start":8045.441,"end":8058.208,"text":"那麼你在經濟委員會說最初的再生能源佔比20%今年11月份恐怕沒有辦法達成會再一次的來延遲那也特別說了它不是技術性的問題"},{"start":8059.557,"end":8064.239,"text":"如果技術不行當然沒轍技術可以我們沒有辦法達成那我們更有精進的空間本席再次強調本席不希望每一任的部長上來就只有告訴我們坦白我沒有辦法達標這不是我們要的啊報告委員如果以裝置容量的目標我們是盡量可以達成的以裝置容量來講部長我們實質討論題"},{"start":8085.208,"end":8093.258,"text":"那目前本席希望不要用意識形態來推政策地方的反彈 土地的爭議 環境的卡關 漁民的抗議 原民之傷電網不足 這一些現實的問題譬如說 光電你噴到農地"},{"start":8104.721,"end":8120.871,"text":"餘溫 居民的反對 你要怎麼去處理離岸風電 你碰到融資 國產化 成本過高的問題 你要怎麼去處理地熱 又卡在灘幹風險跟原民的意願 你要怎麼去處理你不是一個政府只要喊目標 喊壓力 壓地方 壓民間 壓產業啊"},{"start":8124.093,"end":8129.678,"text":"我們產業都在等啊你不是只有口號治國啊你現在目標都跳票你要把責任推給程序太慢社會共識不足就這樣子但是告訴我們的是技術沒問題我說裝置容量這個目標我們會盡量去推動這比較沒有問題財政人員的你20%你再度承認跳票那你接下來要怎麼辦"},{"start":8151.036,"end":8171.585,"text":"你有沒有完整的去盤點你接下來怎麼辦請告訴我們我剛剛跟委員報告就是裝置容量的部分我們設定出來的目標我們盡量會去達成那您剛才提到的有一些挑戰的部分我們會去一一克服剛剛提到的就是說你未來針對於足相也就是土地問題電網問題環評融資 人民之商地方的溝通你要怎麼去做你如果沒有調整你的角度"},{"start":8181.248,"end":8192.915,"text":"腳步制度你如果沒有調整還是一樣明年你還是告訴我們我還是沒有辦法達到我在這裡再次的強調我們不希望部長"},{"start":8194.867,"end":8216.553,"text":"換了一個部長上來都告訴我們我沒有辦法達標所以你的制度方法要怎麼去改我還是強調裝置容量的部分我們可以達成要怎麼去改請你去盤點你的方案方法告訴我們好不好這個非常的重要要不然你到2030年你光花你的光電31GW離岸風電的10.9GW地熱的200MW這些目標"},{"start":8225.475,"end":8253.633,"text":"我們申派又會跳票不希望跳票不會不會 裝置容量的部分去改變你的方案好不好去改變你的方法 達標成功好不好好的謝謝好 謝謝楊瓊議員不過還是提醒部長裝置容量不等於發電總量喔好 謝謝謝謝沒關係 我們休息8分鐘"},{"start":8257.193,"end":8279.458,"text":"不好意思在台上給你們拉過沒有嗎?沒有嗎?這個"},{"start":8282.996,"end":8285.238,"text":"中文字幕志愿者 李宗盛"},{"start":8303.223,"end":8307.987,"text":"這張照片是在2012年,當時是在北京的一間餐廳。這張照片在2012年,當時是在北京的一間餐廳。"},{"start":8343.552,"end":8343.732,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":8362.732,"end":8363.273,"text":"謝謝大家。"},{"start":8381.409,"end":8383.29,"text":"哈哈哈哈哈哈"},{"start":8403.387,"end":8404.008,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":8419.117,"end":8419.137,"text":"好"},{"start":8446.766,"end":8448.471,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":8776.291,"end":8791.245,"text":"好 接下來有請鄭振淺委員質詢謝謝主席 我想請下一步 龔明慶工部長"},{"start":8798.398,"end":8816.186,"text":"部長好 因為我們現在在處理經濟部的預算的問題那我想說先關心一個部分就是我們之前一直很關心的沒宣配從去年關心到現在那我覺得比較有趣的一點是說今年的預算數就115年的預算數的時候整個經濟部"},{"start":8820.788,"end":8839.203,"text":"就是比114年的決算數多了47%整體來說多了47%可是經濟部部本部的部分增加134%這比例非常非常的高然後另外就是有關於中小級新創企業署增加135%"},{"start":8842.058,"end":8852.849,"text":"然後這個產業局增加142這部分都是超過百分之百的增加率的部分我特別挑出來那我當然是要問一下部長為什麼這幾個單位他的"},{"start":8857.403,"end":8871.149,"text":"增加的數量會這麼多那我同時提出幾個單位他們的預算數比114年的法定預算數減少包括了國貿署少了57%能源署少了64%"},{"start":8877.952,"end":8902.179,"text":"然後我們產業園區管理局少了76%通常經濟部的這樣子的一個大單位當中的時候那有些單位他們可以把這部分控制得很好而且還進一步的減少可是部本部的部分的時候還有相關單位的時候成長到百分之百以上這是什麼一回事可不可以請部長做個回應我是不是請會計師說明一下"},{"start":8903.603,"end":8927.445,"text":"謝謝委員關心我這邊補充說明一下我們經濟部的部分在沒宣業務增加主要包括像經濟部是增加了589萬那是科技專案計畫因為要用於推動推廣科技專案的研發成果擴散效益那另外還有就是我們要宣傳政府的重大產業政策然後還有一些掌握政策資訊所以部裡面有增加了大概589萬"},{"start":8930.027,"end":8950.552,"text":"讓你們說這部分的時候呢我可以理解就有些部分我們可能要增加可是增加到134%然後增加到135%增加到142%我覺得其實已經有一些不合理但我們在審預算的時候我們會特別提到我們會特別關注這個部分我們希望"},{"start":8951.472,"end":8969.868,"text":"該用則用不該用的部分我們一定要減下來就像我剛才有特別提到有很多單位他們也是都減少下來啊成員區管理局他們也都節省下來啊能源署也都節省下來就很好的一個狀態我們希望當用則用不當用的時候我們一毛錢都不能夠讓他隨便的亂用"},{"start":8972.05,"end":8998.199,"text":"包委員因為比如說這個中小企業儲罪因為它是中小微的一些發展所以它的宣傳力道尤其是我們中小微振興理解 這都沒有問題可是增加135%我覺得還是很多所以我們到時候會嚴格來把關那我接下來還想問一個部分就是我們看到經濟部的一個預算當中在營業基金的部分有一個地方"},{"start":8999.139,"end":9023.196,"text":"就是一億兩千七百萬金額不大可是它很特殊因為它直接新增國庫增資台電、中油、台糖、台水這個部分而且指定用途在買無人機的部分那我想我很疑惑因為油電、糖水這四大公司"},{"start":9024.016,"end":9050.038,"text":"都是千億級以上的一個規模啦那買無人機的部分我們覺得該買我覺得也很好即使說是經濟部有一個大方向覺得要發展台灣的無人機產業鏈我們覺得要支持本席也支持可是為什麼對於油電糖水四大公司千億級以上的公司可是增加的增資的部分是350萬"},{"start":9053.922,"end":9065.673,"text":"880萬 1000多萬 8000多萬金額來說都很少而且指定用途在買無人機如果油煉糖水四大公司他們要用無人機來增加他們的一個"},{"start":9068.893,"end":9087.664,"text":"運作上面的一些效率本席也支持可是為什麼是用增資的方式可不可以請部長做個說明因為它是一個設備它是投入一個設備投入設備就要用增資的方式給然後這麼少的金額所以油電糖水四個董事會他們都已經有開過這個董事"},{"start":9089.905,"end":9110.139,"text":"會通過要增加350萬增加880萬這樣子的一個規模增資案嗎如果說是因為虧損的狀態因為之前我們看到的狀態都是希望有幾百億上千億的一個增資案的情況因為現在就是因為我們經濟部就是負責整個無人機的統籌型計畫那這個統籌型計畫就有編列一個預算那給經濟部嘛那經濟部當然採買以後是給各油電藏水他來使用巡檢啊等等一些情況"},{"start":9119.825,"end":9141.449,"text":"但是不是免費補助他給他用等於是我們投資他增加了我理解這個狀態因為如果說是補助他們給他們一個東西這個也相對可以理解因為用增資這個狀態的時候因為整個程序因為最主要是油電糖水規模太大了"},{"start":9142.169,"end":9169.776,"text":"那你給他們這個無人機是經濟部採購之後給他們的狀態所以用增資的方式去解決這個程序上的問題是這樣子的一個情況嗎就是不是無常的OK 那本席想要特別關注的狀態是因為油電糖水他們現在大部分的公司本來也都有無人機本來就有在無人機他們如果是營業上面使用的時候他們用他們自己本身的經費我覺得也可以不一定是要經濟部買了之後"},{"start":9170.856,"end":9195.689,"text":"當聖誕老人再發給這油電糖水這四大公司針對這個部分我希望說我們基部能夠特別考量一下因為如果說是用這樣子的方式給的時候我個人覺得並沒有特別的一個妥適當然我們對於無人機產業是支持的我們也覺得台灣很有機會包攢無人機產業可是用這樣的方式來給就是油電糖水"},{"start":9196.109,"end":9202.304,"text":"他們這樣的一個增資的一個方式本心覺得不太需要那麼也不是那麼的適合好不好"},{"start":9203.832,"end":9230.152,"text":"因為我們也不是白給他啦就是說因為我們別列預算總是要有用途那用途的話等於是我們這筆錢是對於油電糖水的部分完全理解啦因為油電糖水這千億級的公司當中的時候他們自己用他們的一個營業的經費就足以去買這些無人機那我另外要特別問的狀態是因為它是非軍用的無人機那現在我們這些"},{"start":9231.823,"end":9261.123,"text":"油電糖水他們要採購的無人機有沒有特別要求去中化去中化的標準到哪些是百分之百的去中化零組件都不行還是一個什麼樣的狀態基本上是要要求是非紅的全部百分之百所有的零組件都不行沒有他有階段性的就是說這應該在2027年2011應該是我記得啦不是2027年或2028年之前因為有一些東西因為比如說"},{"start":9262.624,"end":9278.815,"text":"牽涉到磁鐵因為中國還是掌握大部分那那個部分因為不涉及到資訊安全的問題那那個部分可以在短時間裡面還是有針對這個部分的時候我之後再給本席一個很詳細的一個標準跟進程"},{"start":9279.435,"end":9299.085,"text":"因為我們經濟部這邊採購的部分它基本上是非軍用的部分那我們在想說我們的標準在哪裡然後在現階段當中的時候要如何逐步的去排除非紅供應鏈的問題因為目前有很多的部分感覺上是排除不了所以我們也很希望知道說經濟部做一個整個無煙機產業的一個主管單位的時候"},{"start":9301.946,"end":9330.168,"text":"那麼他是怎麼樣來看待這件事情最後一個部分我想問一個狀態因為零四就是4月4號的時候有一個大水就是大水的部分那水利署這邊有特別提到就是84%的地方在兩小時之內就退了那我想知道的狀態是那另外16%的地方有86個點16%的地方是哪些地方他沒有退那是什麼原因"},{"start":9331.609,"end":9357.712,"text":"報告委員確實有一些地點有一些淹了比較長時間尤其像苗栗像苗栗的一個後龍溪的支流沙河溪因為它那邊有些護岸跟橋樑的問題那這個也是縣政府跟我們會共同來努力改善OK喔那我特別想要關注一個狀態喔你到時候人家給我很詳細知道說這百分之六大概都在苗栗還是還有其他的地方新竹這邊有沒有相關的部分"},{"start":9358.413,"end":9384.46,"text":"那我另外想要特別追就是因為我們在我們有五項延續性的計劃啦那麼到114年7月份為止的時候我質詢力都不好可是它只到去年7月因為統計數字只有到7月那在五項計劃當中的時候包括離島地區供水改善計劃第三期那吳志達水地區供水改善計劃第五期那麼接下來第三項的中央管流域整體改善與調適計劃"},{"start":9385.86,"end":9407.265,"text":"這個部分就跟淹水這部分有很大的關係那它的那個執行率情況都不高那麼第四個水災的智慧防災計畫第二期這也跟我們這次淹水有相關比較大的地方那實現率也都不高那地下水保育管理及地層下限防治計畫第四期這部分這五個都是跨年度的一個"},{"start":9408.585,"end":9433.288,"text":"執行的狀態那我們看到去年的狀態似乎執行率都不好還是說到年底他已經很明顯的提高了報告委員這一些計畫主要的特性都是補助地方政府那我們的水利的工作他的一個特性都是一些工程到最後結算他才會一次性的給付所以依照過去經驗我們都可以達到95%以上沒有好那這樣很好喔"},{"start":9434.989,"end":9456.771,"text":"那我想說我另外特別關注一下就是有關於新竹市在113年度前瞻預算我看到這個數字當中的時候坦白說新竹市在整體來說質詢力已經是好的了可是因為它畢竟離百分之百還有一些距離所以本席也想特別知道新竹市的一個詳細的狀態"},{"start":9459.173,"end":9475.874,"text":"因為68.57的一個執行率的一個治理的一個百分比在全國來說已經算是前段班了可是我們好還希望更好所以針對新竹市這邊為什麼沒有辦法達成就是更好的一個數字在請最水準之後到本辦公室給"},{"start":9476.795,"end":9488.024,"text":"本席一個很詳細的一個狀態然後新竹市這邊還有哪些地方要特別去處理就是請這邊也給我一個本席詳細的內容我們會照辦沒問題謝謝委員好謝謝部長好謝謝鄭正前委員接下來我們請陳昌明委員質詢"},{"start":9511.994,"end":9514.381,"text":"首先有請我們經濟部港部長請港部長"},{"start":9521.753,"end":9543.872,"text":"陳偉豪部長好看看你總預算好像騙得不錯但是發覺了一個重點稅日減少稅是增加了非常多那我看看你這個稅日的話你說減了9.49億只要是中鋼、台眼、漢翔等公司的股息紅利腳庫減少在"},{"start":9545.915,"end":9551.026,"text":"我是說你一個經濟部還大一部你睡日收減淚9.11你收經費就有了嘛"},{"start":9553.912,"end":9581.871,"text":"中鋼因為大家也知道就是去年鋼鐵行情實在是不好那漢翔是因為他漢翔在金融方面會大賺錢啦沒有他被就是因為延誤先剔裂了這個我感覺你這樣又沒辦法剔裂所以這個稅率減少要恢復到以前正常的水準這第二個代表我們傳統產業不好"},{"start":9583.952,"end":9599.187,"text":"你應該要特別順以前最賺錢的現在面臨很大的困難賽好不好所以說不要減少那你今年的稅稅預算一共變了1480億那一般支出裡面451億"},{"start":9606.744,"end":9613.907,"text":"至於增加了112.73億,占所有我們算出的30.71那公共建設508.68億你們已經增淚了127.28億占所有預算的34.36那你科技發展510"},{"start":9633.047,"end":9659.193,"text":"17億佔所有比例將近35增累了大概114億我現在跟你來檢討一下在一般知識裡面第一個你的報告波比石油基金辦理自載家電的效率升級加護屋頂設備的太陽光電的加速計畫還有科技儲能的補治還有商業服務的節能設施"},{"start":9661.425,"end":9675.053,"text":"我要跟你檢討一個問題家電的補助你們是補助給冷氣電冰箱對不對那個是家戶也有企業的部分你自宅家電嘛我看你的預算已經變成要一二十年"},{"start":9679.271,"end":9699.787,"text":"每一年都在騙 每一年都要花這些錢那你的冷氣 你的冰箱裡面包括可能有電視你那幾十年來他有發電條大概應該可以要絕世了因為我講這句話家戶的部分今年是最後一年"},{"start":9701.968,"end":9715.755,"text":"我自己提醒啦 不能幾十年一直在補助啦兩區區的改善 冰箱的改善大概已經到了極致了啦該換的已經有換的差不多啦今年最後一年大家都買一些"},{"start":9717.136,"end":9741.207,"text":"再來啊你家戶屋頂我看到這世界很不公平台北六都的大樓林立啊你們現在都找非六都的話家戶型的用電我跟你講那個大樓用電的是他們最多的結果我看大樓都沒有在做太陽能如果大樓不做太陽能就把它搓碎來補治其他的地方"},{"start":9741.827,"end":9770.043,"text":"所以新的建築物只要超過一千平方公尺的部分他就要強制性的原該把都市那邊好好加強啊那麼多的大王在台電很高興啊啊這個家戶屋頂設施到底現在誰在管理你又看到SWIFT基金是中油在管理還是台電在管理還是能連署"},{"start":9772.145,"end":9778.411,"text":"我看到那個戰爭在打的時候,把電廠也打,氮化廠也打所以家庭那個太陽能力這個實在在戰爭的時候會發揮很大的功效再來"},{"start":9794.246,"end":9813.743,"text":"你裡面有一個深入的計畫,辦理國家藥物運送的準備計畫,這是要到底做什麼?這個是衛福部管的,怎麼會跑到你經濟部來啊?因為它是產業端,藥廠的部分,就是有關於那個學民藥的部分,我們還是要有一些準備"},{"start":9814.503,"end":9843.702,"text":"我是準備要戰爭萬一戰爭來了我看到日本都在準備戰爭來了你跟我講老實話是不是因為怕戰爭來的時候這藥物的運氣你在推動因為所有因為藥物事實上這個是重中之重啦就是說我們這個生活上的重中之重那是衛福部你今天不拿這樣來這真的不會做啦我不會反對啦我只是問你的目的在哪裡啦"},{"start":9844.703,"end":9857.423,"text":"就是說增強我們生產製造廠商這個誰管理的你們經濟部哪一個單位主辦應該是產業署吧產業署本來就要產業署的它是一個產業再來"},{"start":9859.386,"end":9870.174,"text":"一般支出的預算就這幾個我請教再來公共建設預算你們一共編了508億佔了34.36這個比例非常高增加了127億我這台要請教水利市長"},{"start":9881.485,"end":9909.67,"text":"你坐在那邊涼涼的我一直在追問我天花湖水庫你怎麼沒有編列預算你跟我苗栗答應下來啦報告委員這個天花湖水庫其實我們已經送到行政院他正在審議中好 請軍區部長沒有人敢做水庫只有苗栗敢做好不好行政院也非常支持這個方案因為計畫要先過才可以編列預算"},{"start":9911.05,"end":9938.398,"text":"我相信我們部長你從國會會到現在你很會做計畫我相信沒有問題的我了解剛剛談到苗栗的急降雨裡面霍農的地區我也沒有想到淹那麼嚴重這次很特別我告訴你我在後面有那個在排到海的地方啊有一條水溝一直沒有辦法解決沒有人要認那一條把它放大整個大概它排水量會出去"},{"start":9939.279,"end":9945.26,"text":"那我想到這些問題你們應該在海邊那個水位要做煮紅薯"},{"start":9946.792,"end":9969.992,"text":"苗栗的竹籃為什麼沒有醃得很厲害?因為我煮起了一個珠黃色喔!這次大家就感冒耳淚了真的講所以那個不要不要想著說怎樣你在那邊海邊的土地非常的便宜去把它吃去把它買做大的珠黃子大水一來沖到那邊就把它留在那邊就會消化的很快"},{"start":9971.614,"end":9984.671,"text":"這是我的經驗我喉嚨的頭暈的地區當然我曉得橋樑太低很多木頭這樣塞置那些塞置是造成這樣的影響那我為什麼會談"},{"start":9986.092,"end":10009.369,"text":"你們的新竹海水淡化還有台南的海水淡化他們的海水跟海水相同海水都幾百億,幾百億下去那不是長久之道我當時很多人跟我講這個是虧本累累的但是你一直來拜託說那是乾旱的期間其實你都用自容詞"},{"start":10011.328,"end":10016.645,"text":"一定可以解决这些问题这我不能开急开得太不敷成本啊"},{"start":10017.56,"end":10044.401,"text":"所以你把效益算給我看你們到底要只用賺錢還是準備虧錢在等還是當初為了做這種有人請你們特別設計這種我現在就懷疑那你看這是伊朗跟以色列的戰爭淡水場是伊朗打以色列的第一個目標啊我們都要隨時準備未來的應用變化發展啊"},{"start":10045.219,"end":10068.287,"text":"報告委員 是不是這樣有關於那個治水下游做自動死的部分我找我今天再來看看委員這邊指導方向我們會把那裡帶進來我跟你講 講真的沒水沒水大水來沒人幫忙你們蓋了那麼多其實那個非常重要海邊的土地又培養於桃園休息園的蓋邊我們會去找委員這邊再來了解"},{"start":10069.554,"end":10085.037,"text":"那我再來談好請回座你的公共建設裡面有設立一個全國循環專期試點及新材料循環產業延期一共60億這個準備打算做什麼"},{"start":10085.478,"end":10113.339,"text":"這就是大臨埔遷村大臨埔遷村高雄的那個大臨埔要遷村大臨埔我以為你又有心了這個是大臨埔遷村要把那個地方改為這樣南部人有福氣的我們北部尤其苗栗都沒有人照顧我才會問這個問題我告訴你比較實問一點好不好還要講地方暢食今年編的七千五百萬"},{"start":10118.102,"end":10130.769,"text":"那7500萬綠缺的地方創生共好的是要做什麼這個是配合配合台灣的配合商圈的不是國發會他有一個這個地方創生的一個計畫那我們配合他有針對你剛才講這個"},{"start":10133.791,"end":10148.744,"text":"這個我曉得如果是配合的可以啦如果真的說地方創生太少了啦我是為老實的講你國發會地方創生是只要你們的任務再來科技發展的預算請回座那個孫長你科技發展變成157億一共增加114億比例將近"},{"start":10160.956,"end":10188.964,"text":"算所有預算的35%我不反對而且我是全力的支持因為這個世界很競爭高科技很競爭但是一定要選對未來的項目要有關鍵性的產力我們才全力的去發展部長那現在我剛才要問請教的是依據產業技術發展需要及仇日前瞻技術應用這個真的很重要"},{"start":10190.066,"end":10212.309,"text":"我那天看了一個新聞上一次日本來偷我們台積電的數量它叫做東京威力科創公司這個是日本的台積電現在日本政府要做二奈米已經要投資100億美金給這家公司"},{"start":10213.994,"end":10227.771,"text":"你們都不敢發聲他敢做二萊米一定有拿到我們的關鍵性的機制國家對日本自我投資100億美金發展二萊米而且準備很快就要量產"},{"start":10229.546,"end":10243.759,"text":"我以前一直跟你們講 不會啦我們台積電就問了啦他那個機是沒有辦法成巴委員他那個是reputation是他們日本本身的技術啦過去應該是從IPM過來的技術"},{"start":10246.461,"end":10266.194,"text":"世界的眾生啊你不要講他說不然他怎麼要來這邊你們不要替他某事啊就是一群人你們卡著弄起來我跟你講這一下子投資100億但是他是我們的競爭對手沒有錯好不好我是覺得你們保護台灣不是這樣保護愛台灣不是這樣愛台灣"},{"start":10269.756,"end":10280.401,"text":"人家的技術盡量就不要吃雞只有我們台灣一直在做焦慮做焦慮可以技術要完全掌握在首領是的 是的 是的 好不好是 再來"},{"start":10281.913,"end":10300.288,"text":"這個我看不懂你在中小及新創企業的科技裡面增略了1.25億只要是去大南方智慧雨林產業推動辦公室我看不懂可能學運太差什麼叫做智慧雨林"},{"start":10301.389,"end":10322.259,"text":"你問我什麼叫做智慧雨林還要大南方的智慧雨林你給我說清楚報告委員因為相較於其他地區在南部的一些縣市中小企業相關的這些發展的能力競爭力會比較相當薄弱一點所以我們是希望藉由提升南部地區的中小企業當作一個起頭南部的中小企業比較困難"},{"start":10327.862,"end":10354.249,"text":"那我們桃園新澤 桃園不講我們的新竹苗栗 台中不講彰化 南投我們也是地方的中小企業也比較困難 捐贏還比南部還困難你們現在整個都到南部去了你要不要跟我中南部 中部還是北部中間設一個你這名字寫得很好聽 智慧已臨"},{"start":10355.049,"end":10357.174,"text":"我不知道乙甘林沒有什麼本性為什麼叫做智慧乙林"},{"start":10360.649,"end":10385.709,"text":"智慧雨林的意思是希望我們現在要強調中小企業的數位轉型也希望盡量不管在富裕在智能生產要遮瑕罵還有幾個不會遛都的你們要多多照顧啦他們台南高雄都是遛都內好不好中小為這個多元振興方案大家這個100億裡面事實上是全台灣是一起做的啦工業技術"},{"start":10388.058,"end":10399.931,"text":"升級福島還有科技裝難還有中小企業這個我們都會全力支持但是地方發展要給它平衡一下然後一下子就好我一般用的補治款裡面"},{"start":10401.38,"end":10416.596,"text":"我一直強調的一點無知來水地區大概我當議法委員的期間我非常注重這一塊但是我今年看到你們編的無知來水地區供水改善的計畫第五期才4.53億"},{"start":10418.638,"end":10442.424,"text":"啊 尖尖之水 那不會救的事啦自來水很重要啦我那時都叫你們要編個五十億才能真正的解決問題啊它分成兩個部分 一個是台水公司它是沿管的部分那補助這個無自來水的地區啊比如說它可能是簡易自來水啦 或是什麼補助地方政府"},{"start":10444.055,"end":10467.907,"text":"來實施的這些部分我還有很多地方想回答一下今年是21.2億啦你剛才看到4.53億那個是我們補助這個地方政府的一個潔滌自來水跟很多的...這個是補助給地方政府的?對...那我們也...我們治理21.2億喔...這樣我勉強可以接受啦好好處理這一塊啦部長"},{"start":10472.929,"end":10498.689,"text":"這個是得民心的一塊啦現在對於自來水非常相似是是是好謝謝阿市長我這次淹水苗栗的要好好解決想一些新的辦法你在中間把它結一段製紡紙哪邊弄一個製紡紙出來那水就不容易淹了啦想法要改變要創新謝謝謝謝陳昌明委員我們接下來請蔡易瑜委員"},{"start":10514.989,"end":10527.826,"text":"謝謝召委召委都要成為無限暢談希望我有可以這樣的待遇假戰來這個有請經濟部部長請工部長"},{"start":10535.715,"end":10551.736,"text":"蔡委員好部長好部長那昨天大概大家有看到了前天就是這個赫姆茲海峽那已經台灣有一艘台灣級的運送200萬桶的原油那即將要抵達麥寮港"},{"start":10553.078,"end":10569.962,"text":"那我想要請教部長就是說那這樣這個原油抵達麥寮港後可以緩解包括現在在工程界說濾清的不足或者是一些塑膠的這些包裝的材質不夠的這個困境嗎那部長你判斷呢是 包委員那個"},{"start":10580.458,"end":10594.817,"text":"包委員那個中央公司董事長有講就是說我們大概原油一天的使用量大概是15萬噸所以15萬桶所以這個200萬桶的話大概可以支撐半個多月"},{"start":10595.758,"end":10617.213,"text":"那四月份的時候事實上中國公司的原油到港大概有三艘那台塑化它是有一艘所以基本上這個供應量應該是所以有三艘啦有持續就是其他的就是除了這一艘之外還有其他其他艘會持續的進來那我想要就是了解就是說因為現在"},{"start":10618.496,"end":10640.55,"text":"我聽到了很多真的就是在做公共工程的都在反應因為釐清的問題造成他現在的施工必須要暫緩釐清我們重新盤點大概可以供應到六月份六月底那我們現在也請重要公司直接對外來做採購"},{"start":10641.601,"end":10654.506,"text":"那台塑化的部分他們因為有進來的這個原油他也可以有一些也可以煉製剩下這個瀝青出來對好沒關係所以不得這個衍生問題出來第一類就是說對這一些這一些承包商"},{"start":10658.187,"end":10682.143,"text":"他們可能會有說因為疫情的問題他們的工期是需要檢討工期所以委員假如說有比較明確的個案給我們來做一些媒合像其他的地區它也有比較急迫性那讓我們了解我們來做一些媒合的動作好 那我是在請這個台電的董事長"},{"start":10689.847,"end":10710.664,"text":"部長跟董事長我還是要問一下因為丹納斯的到現在已經經過了超過8個月的時間那這個丹納斯的條例後那我們當時是針對很多重要的一些一些路就是說比較屬於"},{"start":10712.025,"end":10724.954,"text":"它的地基會比較強的就是包括台17台19線的一個電纜地下化那我想請教董事長那整個這些電纜地下化這個在特別預算執行那現在推動的狀況如何"},{"start":10726.993,"end":10750.831,"text":"報告委員第一件事情嘉義縣目前我們同樣回報是都已經發包了這是第一點第二點是計執行率現在來看就是它是名列前茅的主要就是因為我們要取得路證等等還要做一些交違只要是順利我們速度就會快土方這個地方也能夠做一定程度的解決所以嘉義縣在整個速度來看是排在比較前面進度還不錯"},{"start":10751.731,"end":10771.182,"text":"所以該一關的整個進度都會有啦因為這特別條例他都頂兩年所以我這個進度我是一個我們希望執行速度能夠盡量執行技術可以越快越好啦好那就這個還是要持續來希望可以加速那第二個就是說這個在中普這邊啦中普這邊那"},{"start":10775.987,"end":10800.384,"text":"中友有一個探勘的事業部這個可能要請中友了有一個探勘事業部那這個探勘事業部在11月11號事實上有針對中埔這個竹頭旗段400之一地號高溫地下水層的一個評估報告那這個評估報告他主要是認定中埔在這個路段在這個地段他"},{"start":10801.414,"end":10820.1,"text":"如果往下挖掘的話只要挖掘到420到730米的左右他們可以井底的底層溫度可以到43度那如果你挖到了分水溪雲水溪層的下段也就是100米至1000米至1200米以這個這一段的話底層溫度可以到61度你如果挖到這個叫做鳥嘴層的上段"},{"start":10828.843,"end":10849.239,"text":"它的溫度可以到1200度你挖到了1200公尺到1400公尺也底層溫度可以到70度所以基本上這一個挖井它有地熱的一個條件那我想請教的話就是經濟部跟中油你們針對這樣有發展有所謂的一個地熱的一個條件的話那"},{"start":10852.561,"end":10855.124,"text":"你們有辦法來針對這些計畫來實施後續的專探那後續的一些投資計畫嗎"},{"start":10866.059,"end":10888.847,"text":"報告委員,有關嘉峪中浦溫泉這個探井的部分應該不是中油公司去專探的,應該是民間業者不過他這些研究報告的話,大概有請我們公司一起來共同探討一般我們判斷的基準大概就是這個地熱的溫度呢到達150度C,應該就具備了可以"},{"start":10889.467,"end":10911.208,"text":"開發的一個評估啦所以以這樣的一個地區的話如果是這樣研究報告是可以做這樣的一個後續的探討的話我想我們作業公司跟業者之間可以做進一步的交流對因為這個業者主要他是針對溫泉啦所以溫泉他大概以這個他他去做篆攤他就只研究到1400米嘛"},{"start":10912.93,"end":10930.647,"text":"那你地熱當然就要再往下啦但是再往下的這個評估大概民間就沒有辦法了就只能靠中油你們是最專業的嘛而且你們最近在宜蘭這邊我看到一些新聞說有取得非常大的成功就是說往下這個地熱已經到達了180度嘛"},{"start":10933.87,"end":10956.596,"text":"這是我看到的一些在宜蘭的一個狀況那如果同樣的在我們中埔有這樣的一個潛力的話那也許這就不是民間有辦法去再往下去撞灘去了解然後他們因為他們這是針對溫泉的一個研究那有溫泉如果再往下有地熱的話那這裡的條件就會更好這應該是沒有錯吧"},{"start":10958.475,"end":10984.486,"text":"因為我們現在有補助啦如果民間業者他要打比較深的這個叫深層低熱的話事實上是政府有補助的補助的比例大概是多少我們有一個計算的公司然後最高每一家我記得好像是1億元啦就是但是要看他的那個打的深度所以還是要民間發動然後你們補助沒有辦法直接就是由中油這邊來啟動這樣的一個"},{"start":10987.007,"end":11008.053,"text":"中友利用中友公司因為他現在主要是在比較北部那個地方在宜蘭地區嘛對那如果宜蘭地區那邊告一段落的話也可以到中府這邊來那應該是可以可以先嘗試去至少先去評估看看嘛就是說來那裡的環境看而且事實上我們嘉義跟中友關係就很深啊你們整個"},{"start":11008.733,"end":11025.117,"text":"我們嘉義市這邊就有整個中友的那個資訊中心啊都是在都在嘉義啊所以如果你們中友可以在我們中埔這個地方那投入這樣的一些一些撰刊那我想我我這樣判斷起來依這一份報告這一份雖然還沒有到"},{"start":11027.978,"end":11042.785,"text":"打地熱的研究但是我覺得是很有潛力的這個應該是值得中友去去做這樣的一個未來的一個規劃是是我想我們可以去做共同的探討好謝謝董事長好那我再最後一個要請教這個部長"},{"start":11044.858,"end":11073.711,"text":"就是部長因為我最近也是看到這個一些新聞看起來齁這個在風電的這一塊很多產業齁很多外商基本上決定要退出台灣那從包括呃加德西外那法國政府100%持有的這個能源的法國電力齁這個再生能源公司叫做EDF齁也決定要退出退出那看起來就是說"},{"start":11074.451,"end":11080.753,"text":"台灣的風電似乎走進了一個瓶頸但是這件事讓我有一點納悶我們這個風電廠如果以前兩期的開發經過了小犬颱風經過了當納斯颱風"},{"start":11091.716,"end":11095.28,"text":"這都是非常強的而且丹納斯颱風甚至到了14級15級風那他們可以這樣依然都是我看起來是沒有一個這個風電的這個電塔有去倒掉嘛"},{"start":11110.435,"end":11136.951,"text":"所以看起來就是說水價基礎的技術也夠成熟那整個發電的效率在冬季的時候也可以達到非常好的發電效率那怎麼會變得說現在外商覺得台灣的這個投資環境已經包含不會因為第一期 您剛才提到第一期第二期大家都要完成了那現在就是有退出的比較有問題就是3.1 3.2某些廠商那"},{"start":11139.765,"end":11161.487,"text":"說老實話這個應該是跟當初的這個選商機制是有一些關係啊我們現在3.3就會回到另外的選商機制那現在表達願意參與的這個廠商家屬也非常多包括國外的有幾位這個都來拜會包括我們駐台的一些代表"},{"start":11162.328,"end":11180.907,"text":"他們也表達很大的興趣3.3的部分所以保定你有信心就是3.3按推動的話因為這個風電我想我們整個政策是延續的而且縱使現在有在做核電重啟的評估但是它跟風電它跟這個綠電的產業政策這個"},{"start":11184.07,"end":11202.981,"text":"這個並不違背啊 並不是說有蘋固這邊風電這邊就要把整個把它停掉我們很快3.3萬以後很快的3.4萬就會推出來還是會出出來 所以政府在綠電的推動我想基本上會持續嘛 而且我再說著台積電他現在需要RE版"},{"start":11204.061,"end":11224.287,"text":"它在R100它需要綠電R100的要求核電沒有在R100裡面核電沒有所以現在幾乎台灣的豐電看起來台積電就是買了五半以上吧所以它有這樣高度的需求那台灣的綠電的一個發展這事情不能我知道"},{"start":11224.827,"end":11243.786,"text":"在野黨好像對綠電是有很大的一些錯誤的誤解那甚至是批判造成很多政策在推動上是沒順利這個是感受得到但是站在經濟部的角度你們對於綠電的推動應該要持續的力道繼續往前推吧是沒有錯我們還會加強"},{"start":11245.707,"end":11265.711,"text":"好 那就未來就是希望部長這部分也許再跟這一些業者大家吹音 大家這樣開槓一下然後了解一下 到底他們現在遇到的困境是什麼我想整個已經邁向成熟的政策 不可以這樣走回去不會不會不會好 謝謝好 謝謝蔡議員諮詢好 接下來我們請張家俊委員諮詢"},{"start":11280.486,"end":11283.208,"text":"謝謝主席 我想請龔部長請龔部長張文英好部長好 現在已經是四月中下旬了那再過兩週就是五月了部長您知道我為什麼要特別提這個時間嗎"},{"start":11301.345,"end":11314.234,"text":"五月迅起來是吧還是報稅季又快來了那每年的五月是我國綜合所得稅跟盈利事業所得稅申報的時間那對於民眾還有中小企業來說這個"},{"start":11317.096,"end":11331.323,"text":"繳稅本來就是一個比較沉重的支出那今年的情況更是嚴峻一方面這個美國關稅的這個政策搖擺不定那當然了國內出口產業大家都人心惶惶那另外一方面呢"},{"start":11332.484,"end":11349.6,"text":"這個美伊的局勢導致國際油價物價都同步飆漲那所以呢這等於是說在這個時程報稅會對於產業就是造成一個很沉重的負擔那面對這樣的情況不曉得部長有沒有掌握呢"},{"start":11351.768,"end":11368.133,"text":"去年是好像財政部有延一個月今年還沒有這樣講因為整個產業都是在你的這個領導之下所以呢去年在疫情過去在疫情期間其實政府都有主動延期這個報稅的期限讓產業有緩衝然後甚至調整資金的時間"},{"start":11373.175,"end":11395.961,"text":"那包括去年面對美國關稅的衝擊政府也採取了相對應比較彈性的措施那我想要請問部長今年的國際情勢比去年看起來還要嚴峻然後是不是我們產業面臨的困難呢這麼多是不是有可能經濟部可以跟這個財政部溝通一下能夠有一個彈性的作為呢"},{"start":11397.002,"end":11407.534,"text":"我們來轉達委員的提案就是說因為委員代表民意嘛至少是有民意代表那我們來轉達說有民意代表這樣的訴求那請財政部來考量我相信部長的這個建議"},{"start":11412.901,"end":11428.974,"text":"財政部也一定會非常重視因為非常多的中小企業我相信也是面臨窘境所以本席建議就是可以比照去年跟疫情期間的彈性模式將今年的報稅截止期限由5月31號延後至6月30日"},{"start":11432.577,"end":11447.673,"text":"那一個月的緩衝期對於中小企業的資金調度來說我想是一個救命的及時雨那特別拜託部長盡快的可以跟財政部來溝通然後苦民所苦我們來轉告表達 轉達"},{"start":11449.635,"end":11471.613,"text":"謝謝部長那再來我想跟部長討論的是經濟部的單位預算那本席注意到經濟部的單位預算在這個營業基金之下編列了1億1880萬元計畫透過用國庫增資的方式撥款給所屬的台塘、中油、台電、台水四家國營企業來採購無人機"},{"start":11475.195,"end":11497.171,"text":"那我想請問部長這一筆經費編載經濟部單位預算的必要性是什麼因為經濟部他是整個無人機產業的這個統籌計畫的主政機關所以就是我們編載我們部會之下那這幾個國營事業規模都不小耶甚至非常大難道不能用自己的經費購買嗎"},{"start":11499.596,"end":11502.058,"text":"為什麼要編在你這裡呢而且無人機的用途都是屬於國營事業裡面的正常營運範疇之內為什麼那個預算要編在經濟部呢"},{"start":11516.975,"end":11532.402,"text":"因為我們就是說邊站我們它有一些共同的一些規格上的一些設備就是部長所說的你整個預算書裡面也沒有寫他買了要做什麼你就只有說統籌型計畫採購無人機就這樣子主要是在巡檢"},{"start":11538.306,"end":11544.49,"text":"使用啊 但是都沒有說明啊都沒有說明啊 你內部都沒有說明事實上這幾家國營事業過去都有自己購買無人機的紀錄像潭水113年就買了7架那台電截至114年8月已經買了214架那本席是絕對支持喔"},{"start":11558.078,"end":11568.83,"text":"使用無人機來減輕第一線人員的負擔跟讓他們的工作更安全更便利這個本席都非常支持但既然這本來就是國營事業的經營成本為什麼要由經濟部來買單因為報告委員就是說經濟部主要目的是推動產業"},{"start":11577.139,"end":11581.643,"text":"所以你要推動的是什麼產業無人機產業所以你要買這些無人機給國營事業用這樣子來幫助無人機產業嗎因為這個無人機產業推動它我們會設計它既定的規格然後引進事業相關的你講到規格我就想要知道說這個預算書真的編得很粗糙"},{"start":11600.538,"end":11604.74,"text":"我翻遍預算書完全看不出來第一要買幾架第二要什麼規格以後具體要做什麼然後整個說明竟然只有寫依據無人機載具產業發展統籌型計畫然後辦理相關的採購具體的採購明細資質未提部長無人機的用途不一樣規格跟價格落差是很大的便宜的一萬多塊就有了然後貴的到幾十萬都有編了一億多的預算"},{"start":11630.27,"end":11650.821,"text":"您打算怎麼買所以我們事實上是有一個完整的計畫然後都沒有提供給我們對我們可以那個費用在那個完整的提供給我們我是建議部長說其實我們是很看重經濟部的預算我們也希望盡速的把它審查完成但是不能因為我們願意盡速你們就"},{"start":11652.122,"end":11656.108,"text":"隨便然後就很粗糙的去處理因為我舉例來說一億多欸如果買一台一萬的你可以買一萬多台一台五十萬的你只能買兩百台那到底是要買幾台要買什麼規格"},{"start":11668.586,"end":11686.458,"text":"幾價的部分事實上都已經規劃出來了啦是啊 但上面都沒有寫啊就是完全沒有說明嘛所以我是希望說部長你們編預算的時候你們跟這個我們本會本委員會說明預算的時候也要必須要落實要仔細可以嗎"},{"start":11687.96,"end":11695.528,"text":"因為雖然我們中央政府致力發展無人機產業需要補充說明因為我們沒辦法空白授權給你們這種資訊不明白的預算我們經濟委員會如果空白授權給你們不是很妥當"},{"start":11707.862,"end":11719.194,"text":"那另外本席在翻閱我們經濟部115年度預算的這個單位預算當中發現編列的稅入只有67.98億那比去年這個稅入"},{"start":11725.479,"end":11747.105,"text":"82.11億元喔整整少了14.13億元喔大幅減少大概17.21%我想要問部長預估稅入大幅下降的主因是什麼關鍵數給我的資料我們是少了9億多欸少了9億多嗎你自己看你自己看82減67"},{"start":11753.879,"end":11776.32,"text":"這數學這麼簡單 你自己看我的螢幕82減67不就是14億嗎是 委員您問的這個數字是有關於部本部的稅務的部分那主要減少的就是我們的那個股息紅利的腳庫因為股息紅利像轉投資都是編在部本部是 這就是我想講的你這14.13億喔"},{"start":11779.271,"end":11788.44,"text":"裡面投資股息紅利減少就佔了13.58億主要是中鋼還有漢翔還有台岩還有螳螂還有台船還有可威環境所以這六家"},{"start":11801.829,"end":11821.223,"text":"基本上已經連續這個股息已經連續4年都下降了今年跟4年前比更是直接腰斬部長這造成國庫收入大減經濟部投資管理是出了什麼問題這個是拿人民的納稅錢去投資難道不是應該更謹慎嗎報告委員因為中鋼的部分我想過去幾年因為國際的鋼"},{"start":11827.988,"end":11844.084,"text":"鋼鐵市場事實上市況不好因為有比較中國因為大量的這個出口我沒有針對任何一個公司我沒有針對任何一個你們現在投資的公司我只是希望說我們經濟部要投資可能也有一些是"},{"start":11845.365,"end":11868.65,"text":"政策性的關係也有要輔導性的關係但是呢我還是希望說就好像國發基金他也會在可能這個目標達成之後他會重新盤點嘛那我也是希望經濟部也要做對內的這些投資的盤點不能夠說就任他每年每年不斷的虧損該盤點的時候該調整這個這個"},{"start":11874.171,"end":11878.434,"text":"投資的比例的時候 他還是賺錢啦只是繳額比較少啦比往年少啦那我沒有每一家都賺錢唐榮台船可威都已經連續虧損兩年了是不是 我有沒有認證"},{"start":11894.102,"end":11916.519,"text":"對啊因為台船他做了這個有些所以啊 我就跟部長講我沒有針對任何一家公司你沒有 我也不想說出來就是希望針對你們部本部的這個稅入然後這個投資效益你們可以做一個內部的盤點然後能夠對於你們的這個我們納稅人的這些繳的稅呢可以更審慎的對待好不好好 謝謝"},{"start":11927.025,"end":11954.127,"text":"好 謝謝曾大軍委員 接下來我們請賴世寶委員質詢謝謝主席 各位先進有請部長有請龔部長"},{"start":11962.728,"end":11971.601,"text":"賴委員早安賴副董事長我還是關心這個油源的問題現在這個打打彈彈彈彈彈他對於我們的油的供應到底"},{"start":11978.271,"end":12005.5,"text":"影響到哪裡就是原來講的說現在來了兩艘是不是來一艘還來兩艘現在這一個月總共來了四艘原油的部分原來不是說有四艘就那四艘嗎對就是按照這個進度就已經到了四艘到了你不是說五月才到現在提早到不是四月份就進來了四艘五月份呢五月份已經有安排了總共五月份應該是幾艘五月份會幾台會來也差不多四五台"},{"start":12006.9,"end":12008.182,"text":"價格呢?價格應該比較和緩現在原油價格應該是在90幾塊已經沒有再超過100塊了"},{"start":12020.795,"end":12046.209,"text":"現在可以不可以這樣講齁那個未來原油要低於一百塊的機率不夠了 可不可以還是說低於一百塊還是高於一百塊不夠了不叫低於高於一百塊不夠了因為現在人家開始跌落了嘛對 就要看那個中東戰事的局勢啊如果穩定下來應該是比較少的機會但是如果戰爭再起的話 那就"},{"start":12048.13,"end":12062.716,"text":"央行預估的全年他用85塊錢來算原油價格這是合理的如果這個戰事很快的如果解決結束以後的話你們會認為很快解決嗎"},{"start":12065.845,"end":12092.848,"text":"這個就要看起來不會喔我們看起來就長期化了喔這個東西坦坦打打打打坦坦就長期化這個樣子喔所以老實講85塊我都覺得低估了喔但是要超過100多多到哪裡當然也不知道啦沒有人知道滾動式的這個沒有人知道但是所以你那個游泳的來源就很重要了我再確定一遍是不是"},{"start":12093.408,"end":12118.664,"text":"未來極有可能就不要跟中東買油了直接全部集中跟美國買跟澳洲買是不是可能不是 包委員因為現在就是說現在只剩下中油跟台塑化各有一艘在波斯灣裡面其他的我們都用鴻海還有其他的這個出口別的國家你鴻海是跟中東買嘛對啊 因為那邊算是還安全"},{"start":12120.731,"end":12137.596,"text":"我們現在從美國來的中油的比重已經60%所以說事實上對油的掌握台灣是比較OK的所以我們都維持在140天左右我們要不要參與"},{"start":12139.178,"end":12158.104,"text":"美國的原有阿拉斯加的人員基礎設施四千多百億美金我們負擔三分之一要不要現在是有這樣規劃但是要實際看到他的什麼時候可以確定Business Plan什麼時候可以確定就是他的這個計畫書什麼時候可以確定因為我們要看到計畫書才確認計畫書還沒來計畫書什麼時候來可能"},{"start":12164.623,"end":12178.656,"text":"目前美方沒有把這項當成是優先的我們在看台灣的經濟荷蘭病其實很嚴重的半導體跟相關的電子產品出口佔60%傳統產業幾乎全部被擠壓了"},{"start":12183.22,"end":12211.138,"text":"儘管會還弄出一個叫普遇計畫就是怎麼樣表現不錯的傳統產業也讓他有機會讓投資人的青睞這個問題啊這個今天對經濟部來講其實是很重要的就是我們這個產業啊其實你看的都是AI即便中小企業AI概念股你看大盤漲18%但是中小企業的AI概念股漲200多%你就可以看得到都是要跟AI有關"},{"start":12211.798,"end":12225.305,"text":"跟黑黑無關的都靠偏贊這東西經濟部有沒有什麼辦法想想辦法有沒有報告委員所以我們現在為什麼有兩年的這個特別的任性預算幾乎大部分都是用在傳統產業跟中小企業上那個多少錢"},{"start":12228.947,"end":12245.827,"text":"兩年大概我們編了四百五十億左右四百六十億那包括開拓市場等等一些情況那除了這個之外我們一年度的這個對於中小微的這個政經多元發展方案事實上跨部會大概有一百億"},{"start":12246.528,"end":12273.447,"text":"也來支撐這個中小企業的協助這個也過了啦我們希望你執行的時候中小企業儘量的要偏心一點啦就是非AI的類這部分應該多補助一點最後一個小問題喔剛才委員有句話提到也說關心的因為現在我們要發展無人機啊這次的軍購特別條例還要編了整個要買20萬台的無人機那個是軍事的那是國防部編的我現在就問你"},{"start":12275.348,"end":12300.878,"text":"其實現在這次的美伊戰爭我們就看得到伊朗用了很多非常便宜的無人機大概不到台幣一百萬結果美金出動兩顆愛國者一顆一億兩億打一百萬這個才叫做不對稱戰爭啊這一部分老實講我們經濟不可以用很大的力我們以現在來講的話我們的無人機在全世界排名第幾"},{"start":12302.288,"end":12318.334,"text":"無人機現在如果以數量上來講因為我們剛起步兩年我們盤了非常後面對 我們剛起步兩年但是這兩年的變化非常非常之大那成長出口的成長意義是二三倍無人機第一名是量最大是不是是中國對中國大陸它佔的百分之七十"},{"start":12319.814,"end":12334.649,"text":"那現在我們政府又在推非紅供應鏈可是百分之七八十的關鍵民主圈都在中國大陸你們要如何的擺脫紅色供應鏈這是一個很大的問題啊因為你沒有這個東西的話"},{"start":12336.411,"end":12356.862,"text":"你跟他買最快 但是又不能跟他買 那這算什麼牌不僅我們國內要求 實際上全世界包括中東歐的國家 包括波蘭 他們也希望達成這個所謂的飛鴻供應鏈所以他們來找我們共同的合作 包括法國也是那我們除了 我們現在主要的關鍵領土就是向哪個國家買"},{"start":12359.432,"end":12378.69,"text":"主要是美國主要是美國法國也有美國自己的美孚企業好了我已經時間到了我就不要再拖了我就提醒一句好好的去輔導中小企業非AI類的中小企業我們會加強這個是我這次巡查的重點謝謝"},{"start":12382.961,"end":12399.335,"text":"好謝謝賴世保委員那我們中午不休息延長開會時間至議程處理完畢林俊憲林俊憲林俊憲委員邱志偉接下來我們請邱志偉委員質詢"},{"start":12416.175,"end":12445.477,"text":"好 謝謝主席 首先請經濟部鞏部長請鞏部長國貿署劉署長國貿署劉署長署長不在了是吧對 署長請下不是到12點嗎這個台灣加入CPTPP是我們的重要的政策那推動一定要有預算也要有策略請教一下經濟部特別是國貿署今年有沒有編列多少預算來推動台灣加入CPTPP"},{"start":12446.94,"end":12468.937,"text":"我想應該是編載國貿署你相關的預算應該是要編載國貿署你從預算書裡面能不能反映出來 你要推動沒有預算不行啊的確是有一部分是編載OTN的 是當然在經濟部的向下今年要推動台灣加入CPTPP OTN是編多少錢"},{"start":12471.55,"end":12497.749,"text":"我們要跟12個會員國去磋商去討論甚至希望說有會員國可以幫台灣提案成立工作小組你們預算我這一問就不知道我要怎麼去推動CPTPP那個向委員報告那今年我們推動在CPTPP的費用我們現在"},{"start":12502.842,"end":12509.366,"text":"其實都講不清楚預算多少我很難期待你們有好的表現今年已經凍資的部分大約是在450萬台幣"},{"start":12515.649,"end":12544.204,"text":"如果美金還差不多450萬台幣12個國家你要去跟他們磋商國貿局你要去跟這個主要的國家願意幫台灣提案這些國家加強這個磋商討論或者提出這個對策甚至高層會議我也建議部長你有必要去越南跑一趟或者去日本跑一趟因為主要的關鍵國你現在才用450萬450萬你能夠做多少事情是 我們也利用比較"},{"start":12545.629,"end":12566.721,"text":"多元的時間就是說可以盡量接觸也都會表達比如說我們現在就是說把這個議題分散到OTM分散到外交部跟國貿署跟經濟部沒有一個統整的戰力各部會各行其事當然不可能把計較展現出來而且預算又編的這個我覺得很納悶預算為什麼編如此之少"},{"start":12567.887,"end":12585.893,"text":"這個如果要推動是要有一個政務委員 再生大臣在日本是一個經濟再生大臣去強力推動做一個重要的國家政策資源 預算要到位 人員也要到位那我要問你說你現在跟12個我們成員國磋商討論目前的結果怎麼樣"},{"start":12587.609,"end":12603.651,"text":"巴爾委員我們現在都是用雙邊的或是多邊的預算那只要有機會碰面就會提到這件事情不是你要把它當一個正式專案去執行你如果是附帶的用專案這個在多邊協議的時候附帶提一下人家怎麼會重視呢"},{"start":12604.312,"end":12629.955,"text":"像我就為了CPTPP我跑了幾個國家我跑了七個國家而且是面對面的跟國會議員表達台灣要加入這個決心已經準備好了對 因為我們雙邊的這個對話通常CPTPP是一部分但是也會談其他的議題所以會一起談不會只談這件事情今年是關鍵年如果今年在年底越南當主辦國如果沒有辦法加入你後面就遙遙無期了"},{"start":12631.377,"end":12645.772,"text":"為什麼我急 就急到現在我覺得你要把它當一個正式 你要用部長的高度來整合你要整合OTN 你要整合外交部 你要整合各外管的經濟組同仁每個月回報最新進度 接下來結果怎麼樣"},{"start":12647.033,"end":12666.922,"text":"好 然後我們要怎麼樣達證要誰來提案讓台灣成立工作小組那其他的這個會員國都不要有特別的反對意見這樣子我們成立的工作小組才能水到渠成嘛要有人提案啊那你要策動哪些國家去提案這個你都有覆案耶好 我們來思考這個台灣還不是內閣制國家如果內閣制國家國務院可以見證閣員的話我可以當你們這個"},{"start":12676.514,"end":12680.397,"text":"問你三個產業在你新的這一年我們預算今年通過雖然晚了一點"},{"start":12699.753,"end":12718.603,"text":"好針對航空產業針對金屬扣減產業針對石化產業這些產業都集中在中南部你的施政重點跟你要達成的目標請針對這三項產業做一個說明就是扣建產業的部分的話現在他們在一些"},{"start":12719.808,"end":12743.593,"text":"AI方面的推動的話 現在是我們推動的一個重點希望能夠藉由這些AI推動 讓他們的一些想法這AI推動講了很久了 都有一些具體的成效你是不是可以把你今年預定要推動的成果跟目標是不是提供一些書面資料給我 好那航太呢那航太的部分的話就是有一些加入國際的一些認證的一些協助那這樣重點是在無人機嗎"},{"start":12745.322,"end":12756.871,"text":"無人機 對對啦 重點是在無人機嘛航太一定有一定的基礎現在新的領域是在無人機嘛所以你要怎麼協助航太產業裡面無人機能夠生根茁壯發展"},{"start":12758.564,"end":12782.122,"text":"跟國際接軌這個才是最重要的嘛那石化呢石化的話我們現在在雅文這邊有推動這個石化的一些公安也是可以透過一些AI的方式來提升它的一些另外一個就是高質化這個推動現在股市三萬八那現在石化相關產業它的這個他們股價大概是一萬點左右的股價這比一萬點股價還更低"},{"start":12786.559,"end":12815.033,"text":"對不對所以他必須面臨到產業發展的瓶頸跟挑戰我們要用政府的力量怎麼樣協助他們轉型當然面對中國的競爭也是很重要他們自己也要有轉型的意志但是我們要轉型的協助跟輔導你去看這傳統產業的股價跟這個AI半導體的股價完全是天差地遠所以我覺得針對這三項相對的重要對中產部比較重要產業我希望說"},{"start":12815.948,"end":12838.154,"text":"政府能夠拿出具體的政策 而具體的成果來協助這三個產業能夠有更好的競爭力好 接著請雲管局 雲管局楊局長部長 海外產業聚落的佈局你們憋力一意去執行 對不對"},{"start":12839.198,"end":12853.8,"text":"那我覺得你們現在這個計畫一億好像只是做一些資料收集沒有個具體成果你應該可以告訴我說這個海外產業機構是在哪一個國家哪一個城市已經有初步的雛形是集中在哪些產業"},{"start":12855.243,"end":12874.054,"text":"現在分成幾個部分我們除了在某些國家裡面有設置的這個服務跟貿易中心那另外也跟TIMA就是電電工會共同要開發這個園區那某些已經有一些合作的一些方案比如說第一個在波蘭已經有了"},{"start":12876.296,"end":12898.75,"text":"還有哪個國家 因為可行性貧困有三岸對 另外一個波蘭 一個哪裡另外在美國 美國可能有兩個地方那東南亞呢東南亞那時候本來是說菲律賓是不是有可能那現在也是在討論當中尤其是美國也宣布了他們跟菲律賓要有大概一千多公頃的一個所謂的一個特區"},{"start":12899.631,"end":12919.267,"text":"那我覺得三個還是不夠 兩個集中在美國 一個在歐洲那你甚至在亞洲國家應該有一個產業 臺灣符合日不落國對不對 經濟日不落國所以你這個產業佈局一定要是放在跟我們相對產業比較集中的區域比方說在越南或者是泰國"},{"start":12920.808,"end":12949.557,"text":"這產業聚落才有意義你不是從新開始從一張白紙開始你要在既有基礎上去建構一個台灣海外的這個產業聚落專區對 這個有分如果說因為這個海外聚落的話因為這個政府來講還是要居土居所以要看對方的政府跟我們如果是純民間的我們也會支持那純民間比如說TIMA他現在要去墨西哥那我們也會協助他"},{"start":12950.137,"end":12960.553,"text":"但是就民間發動了民間發動主打就是說波蘭一處然後美國兩處你們多尋找一些比較有競爭力的另外最後請水利署署長水利署署長這個"},{"start":12967.742,"end":12991.429,"text":"北高雄就是我的選區幾乎我們每天都在看這些工程我每一項都看過我講署長你也陪我看過好幾次所以這個每一項工程都是有它急迫性跟必要性而且我親自去看過你也在現場包括應急工程在15年度大概就9,160萬這些都是必要性而且必須馬上去處理的應急工程請部長署長能夠全力支持"},{"start":12991.969,"end":13019.559,"text":"另外就是說115到118年這個北高雄這個整體的改善計畫河川跟排水整體的改善計畫這幾個包括聯保溪包括土湖排水包括沿海區域這些經費都非常重要這個跟北高雄的這個城市韌性有關係因為北高雄不只是只有只有傳統產業我們更有未來高科技的AI跟半導體的聚落所以不能有天然災害發生"},{"start":13021.226,"end":13047.498,"text":"特別是這個強降雨或颱風來的時候不能淹水半島立場不能淹水所以這個部分的這個所謂這個典寶溪流域的自理計畫跟土庫排水跟沿海區的自理計畫這些經費我請部長跟署長重視加以支持我們會全力來辦理沒問題雖然金額不小大概50億左右但是這要花在刀口上是救產業救人民要提升生活品質"},{"start":13048.191,"end":13062.869,"text":"也謝謝委員多次現堪給我們指導非常謝謝也謝謝你每次我邀請你的會來是 應該的好 謝謝好 謝謝邱志偉委員謝謝部長接下來我們請葉元之委員質詢"},{"start":13076.663,"end":13077.445,"text":"主席 麻煩請部長 經濟部長 謝謝請工部長"},{"start":13087.333,"end":13108.351,"text":"我看到中國大陸說要給我們惠台十大措施嘛結果經濟部馬上就發文了那標題叫做台灣走自己的路無需回頭一步中國很強硬啊我是覺得都有市場開發啦已經一部有點反應過度了啦為什麼我這樣講第一個人家是說市場開放嘛"},{"start":13109.191,"end":13136.209,"text":"對台灣做生意的人來講中小企業或什麼他就多一個市場我多一個地方可以賣東西過去這個沒有說什麼回頭依附的問題你們現在經濟部或農委會農業部不是都一直在講說我們要開放多元市場嗎很好啊繼續去做啊但多一個市場怎麼又講說是依附這我覺得有一點因為他講說有條件之下怎麼樣怎麼樣但是有條件就"},{"start":13137.189,"end":13151.456,"text":"有條件是另外一件事情我要講就是說如果他願意開放市場然後我們評估之後覺得OK的那當然可以去啊但是馬上扣個帽子說因為他開放所以我們就是回去依附我覺得經濟部這樣講中小企業聽了也不高興啊"},{"start":13152.156,"end":13167.836,"text":"我們沒有要依附啊只是多一個市場機會啊那我看到政府每次都講說那個叫養套殺他把你養起來到時候要殺你不是啦這個做生意都有風險啊你們現在政府一直鼓勵企業到美國去投資沒有風險嗎"},{"start":13169.205,"end":13194.33,"text":"包委員就是說所以我們為什麼比較強調如果政府對政府不管有沒有脫過白手套總是有一個那政府就趕快對政府啊對我們是希望這樣政府就趕快對政府那政府不對政府然後民間的努力政府又翹著二郎腿旁邊說不要不要不要那政府就沒有功能了嘛單方面的承諾他可能隨時會改變也造成七五八這個布朗跟你請教因為"},{"start":13195.35,"end":13207.417,"text":"我看到商總啊他們帶領很多產業出來中小企業啊做糕餅的啊當然有的跟經營部可能比較有關係啦比如說觀光業觀光業跟我們不是無關的我知道我知道無關農家餅也無關啦但是糕餅啊中小企業其實他們是還蠻有趣的那"},{"start":13211.599,"end":13228.041,"text":"我認為經濟部應該做的角色是他們去你幫他評估風險你剛剛講可能的風險但是做生意一定都會有風險我剛剛講去美國也有風險台積電投資那麼多過去當初拜登講說要給他補助川普一上任就說考慮把補助取消"},{"start":13228.462,"end":13243.999,"text":"都是風險啦不能把風險講成養套殺啦所以這種東西盡量不要經濟的東西我覺得盡量不要講意識形態這個是我給經營部的提醒因為我看到經營部馬上就哇那個政治口號就出來了那"},{"start":13244.656,"end":13263.759,"text":"然後還有商總說他有接到壓力啊經濟部有給他商總壓力嗎我沒有跟他聯絡你沒有那經濟部其他的我們是有同仁去跟那個糕餅公會問他說就是說因為他就是說什麼有條件之下什麼開放什麼中小什麼市場"},{"start":13264.64,"end":13286.537,"text":"那個意思到底是什麼我們高屏公會跟我們回答是說他們要表達的是說因為過去我們出口到他們那邊的時候因為它的那個凱關的行政程序非常忙因為高屏它是有期限的如果那個期限太長的話就會壞掉他們希望說這個可不可以簡化那基本上這個跟所謂的今年的會談就沒有什麼關係嗎"},{"start":13287.838,"end":13305.337,"text":"那這樣講話也很好啊那如果是這樣的話對啊所以這個訴求我們同意啊我們也支持啊對嘛那這就很正面嘛不是我說高品工會的訴求就是簡化流程那個部分所以你們不是給他壓力你們是關心一下說現在什麼狀況然後他跟你說可以簡化你又說好那來幫忙"},{"start":13305.697,"end":13331.5,"text":"對 我們可以幫忙 我覺得這就不錯啊這就站在業者角度嘛 對就盡量 所以相總生氣了相總還嗆聲說他也有選票我覺得不用這樣子啦我覺得不用這樣 我覺得政府盡量幫忙不要意識形態然後第二個齁 我昨天看到有那個反核團體去跟總統啊見面嘛 然後還是反核啊然後有人轉述說 總統在勸他們說哎呀 現在狀況不一樣了啦電力供應不如預期啦"},{"start":13332.741,"end":13354.729,"text":"AI產業需求啦那電力部有評估嗎現在是沒有辦法達到之前的電力供應的目標了嗎就是說我們滾動式的嘛2032年之前2032年、2034年之前我們都已經評估好至少在這一段時間裡面電力的供應是沒有問題的電力供應沒問題但是它有沒有達到你的預期有沒有"},{"start":13356.151,"end":13383.245,"text":"就沒有問題啊我們有達到就是因為我們會估算就是說包括AI算力的需求等等一些需求後來半導體進來你最新的這樣好不好你最新的那個預計譬如說我們的需電量是多少你把那所有的產業的發展全部算進來你就預期到2032嗎2034 對需要我們大概我們需要多少電然後我們可以發多少電對然後我們發電的裝置容量各個是多少對對對"},{"start":13384.025,"end":13409.431,"text":"你提供給我一份資料可以可以那因為總統講說用電供電不如預期啦他是這樣子講所以有重新那個重啟的需求嘛是總統講的嘛但是部長講說我們滾動事件部長講說目前為止是沒有至少到2032是沒有那你資料給我我來看一下好不好謝謝好謝謝葉元之委員謝謝部長"},{"start":13411.505,"end":13439.894,"text":"接下來我們請劉建國委員質詢好 謝主席有請部長有請幹部長台電的曾董事長台電曾董事長部長你看每一戰爭的衝突每一戰爭的衝突會持續多久大約你的觀察"},{"start":13443.538,"end":13469.207,"text":"這個我在猜應該是不會我個人啦這個是我個人因為不會太久因為美國選舉快到好不會太久到底是到底是多久你猜嘛我尊重部長的用猜的方式是在三個月在半年在一年大約啦大約你猜應該是不會那麼久啦你猜是多久我猜是你怎麼看董事長"},{"start":13471.144,"end":13478.433,"text":"你們兩個套好了你猜的是你猜的為什麼要看董事長還是董事長提供猜的日期給你"},{"start":13480.835,"end":13503.23,"text":"因為對我們來講,我們還是把事情準備好比較正常沒有錯沒有錯,但是總是你有講說你猜嘛大致上,所以我是請教你的對事情的觀察我們就做好萬全的準備啦比如說我們先看到把所有的事情,六月跟七月的事情做好你是一個做事情非常積極,然後也非常會做事的一個部長所以你覺得萬全準備沒有問題"},{"start":13504.851,"end":13510.717,"text":"但是我只是請教你說你猜大約會多少因為是剛剛你回應我嘛但是你看了曾董事長之後你就不猜了"},{"start":13512.506,"end":13533.938,"text":"這是曾董事長在干擾你還是怎麼樣沒有 報告委員因為我們現在準備都是比如說現在3月份的時候我們都看到6月份我們先把它準備好那再過一個月我們就一直往下一直往下準備這樣子好啦 沒關係部長就看了董事長之後就已經回應我的方式就已經有改變了齁那我等一下就好好再請教曾董事長齁"},{"start":13535.118,"end":13559.466,"text":"每一兩週的停火協議即將在台灣時間4月23號的早上8點對不對然後就要到齊了啦這也不用猜嘛然後也就是說明天早上川普已經也直接表態停火協議不可能延期那甚至以兩年除非伊朗乖乖簽字或者這個赫摩茲海峽會繼續封鎖甚至不排除再度風炸這是即時的一個新聞嘛"},{"start":13560.726,"end":13580.194,"text":"然後在此同時 伊朗方面也持續釋出更強硬的訊號他們的國會議長卡利巴夫稱伊朗已經做好在戰場上的準備也亮出了一個新底牌好 那我想我是要提醒部長當初在2022年的烏俄戰爭原本是說閃電 閃電戰結果它一閃 從2022閃到現在還沒有閃完"},{"start":13588.402,"end":13605.144,"text":"所以部長原本猜 後來不猜我覺得我也能夠理解了這部份有 也很難有了因為你也不是川普總統的經濟部長 董事長即便你們是 你們也會猜不到了"},{"start":13606.451,"end":13630.696,"text":"所以攀油啊 攀油經營只要你要去面對我們就是要做 剛剛秦副部長所講的就要做萬全的準備啊 這個我接受所以現在經濟部跟台電面對美伊衝突 赫普之海只要封鎖要實施短期調度 賣電啦 賣了電廠那你的短期要作為這個多元備援方案分散天然氣供應風險強化這整個電力嘛 對不對"},{"start":13634.117,"end":13646.242,"text":"那我就是要請教部長跟曾董事長嘛你所謂的短期三個月就5、6、7嘛對不對好那5、6、7未來會不會8、9、10未來會不會10、11、12現在沒有這樣的規劃沒有這樣的規劃所以就5、6、7那一天我有詢問那個處長沒有這樣的規劃就是到5、6、7嘛好5、6、7就截止了"},{"start":13665.562,"end":13682.362,"text":"就567就截止短期嘛 短期就567嘛 567之後就不會再動了跟台電的合約就是 台售的合約 對 就是所以不會再簽下去了目前就是567 目前567嘛 會不會再延嘛"},{"start":13683.69,"end":13689.312,"text":"目前沒有這樣的規劃除非戰爭真的又變激烈就像烏克戰爭這樣嘛對不對閃電變成一閃四年嘛那你會不會對於賣電的整個調動的電力請他再重啟之後又像烏克戰爭這樣"},{"start":13703.41,"end":13712.836,"text":"一年 延到四年不會你怎麼會不會他說你不一定是經濟部長啊你或許是行政院的院長啊你或許是中華民國的下任總統啊"},{"start":13714.878,"end":13734.179,"text":"怎麼不會你用猜的還是你未卜先知我們跟他合約是有一個那個他有那個你剛剛合約就是短期的五六七嘛那你的合約你因應每一戰爭的情況之下你要完全準備之後你會不會八九十嘛不會那你就馬上跟打我說不會"},{"start":13735.3,"end":13756.818,"text":"對 因為操作許可是到2027年嘛所以他就不能 即便是我們要也不行操作許可是到2027 即便是要也不行 但是你的5672027不到 這個八九十不到2027啊對不對 十一時候也不到2027啊所以你的短期不叫做三個月啊你的短期 你猜"},{"start":13757.919,"end":13777.027,"text":"可能會再增加一劑你猜可能又會再多增加一劑那為什麼叫短期報告委員因為戰爭一開發的時候一發生的時候我們當然要做多元的韌性的調度跟準備但是過了三個月以後我想我們又比較有時間可以做比較充分的調度"},{"start":13778.047,"end":13799.214,"text":"那也不一定要用到這個 戰爭開打也不是現在這個時間然後他也有挺我的這樣的一個協議然後照理講在協議過程裡面我那天有特別拜託處長趕快跟你們回報快速的去盤整不要再想到已經整個停機的賣1跟賣3不要再想到那個地方而且部長你自己講的賣掉機組重啟將減少台中電廠用煤我們運營人的睡覺比較少"},{"start":13805.771,"end":13825.696,"text":"所以台中降載那雲林再來徵用麥一跟麥三來用煤發電你覺得對於雲林的人這樣交代的過去嗎不是我們是承諾這你講的啊這你講的啊降低中火用煤量啊所以在中火降低用煤量對於雲林就是要增加用煤量嘛基本上邏輯就這樣這沒問題這不用猜嘛"},{"start":13827.336,"end":13849.134,"text":"我是要跟補充說補充你處理工序處理事情的延期跟應變的領域其實我都很敬佩但是這種的思維模式是不對的我們不是賣一二三二就已經拆掉了剩下一三這個地方到二六二七就結束了嘛對不對好 為什麼還去徵用這個地方根本不需要做這種事情全國的"},{"start":13851.255,"end":13868.67,"text":"這個發電廠基本上你們都可以去做盤整去做調度你為什麼唯獨要去思考到這個地方而且過去過去這一個電廠是最糟糕的過去還在燒什麼石油膠這個石油膠當時民進黨之爭之後結果馬上把它廢死掉了沒咧是有心話的咧"},{"start":13870.482,"end":13889.971,"text":"所以現在沒有修完之後還必須要總統有公告才禁止燃燒石油膠來作為能源的使用現在已經禁止了你過去了石油膠連印度青鹿外用的東西一起自來味然後我們持續在燒不修法還是持續啊那為什麼還要重蹈覆轍還要揪起"},{"start":13891.512,"end":13906.075,"text":"這個地方過去的痛苦那完全是因為戰爭的發生我必須要一些振興啊所以我們要讓台中的戰爭不變就對了繼續來修明這邏輯怎麼說的過去你再說再說真的這不用猜邏輯上不通啦邏輯上不通主席已經站上來了我拜託你你跟董事長都是一個很會做事然後做人也做好的人拜託一下你如果這麼好你不要對我們香港人不好這樣好不好"},{"start":13922.051,"end":13928.817,"text":"這可以休,這不休息,一瓶就降災,一瓶你還要休起來,你就是對我們分量不好啊沒有,這個還是要感謝雲林啦謝謝啦,謝謝你的感謝,感謝就是不要再想賣一跟賣三我堅決反對到底,拜託部長,拜託曾董,謝謝,謝謝主席,謝謝"},{"start":13946.395,"end":13955.824,"text":"蘇巧惠蘇巧惠蘇巧惠委員何欣淳何欣淳何欣淳委員接下來我們請盧憲一委員質詢就先請部長 請工部長 謝謝"},{"start":13975.598,"end":13995.65,"text":"今天就自來水的問題就這樣 剛剛看原息性計畫 看到114年度可用的預算數是197億可是到目前為止的7月了 它僅55億4625萬元我想知道說現在的實現率是28.1% 是不是我們的資訊力太差第二就是說全國的自來水的普及率已經到95.55%"},{"start":13997.831,"end":14020.94,"text":"可是看到我们原住民地区比如说屏东县还在72台东县83苗栗87南投81也就是说都集中在我们原住民居住的地区所以对我们原住民地区是相对的不公平而且我们是每天看好山好水的人可是我们的普及率却远远不如全国各地然后现在还有看到前瞻计划的预计改善户数是7000户"},{"start":14022.04,"end":14043.643,"text":"可是實際的改善會數是1367 也就是說不到五分之一 不到20%我想知道說目前這來水公司和經濟部這邊有沒有你們的一個改善方案或是說可以說服我們原住民 民主在這個廣大的三元生活什麼時候可以期盼到好的水我請水公司說明一下"},{"start":14046.943,"end":14071.735,"text":"謝謝委員的一個指導那有關山地原住民或平地原住民的部分的這個自來水其實以我們自來水公司計算是普及率還有一部分是用簡易自來水那像山地原住民我們自己的統計算接我們自來水公司的普及只有38%左右不過再加進簡易自來水的話這些山地原住民"},{"start":14072.855,"end":14099.241,"text":"區域大概普及益有達到76%那平地原住民的部分大概我們水公司的普及益已經有88%再加一些減水至少有92%左右我們是期望說現在看到這麼多的經驗就是還沒有執行的部分我是希望能夠盡快的大概普及率能夠更高然後它的執行率能夠更高第二個最後就是一個自來水的那個檢測常常就是明明是你說剛剛的檢測自來水可是有些地方的檢測是"},{"start":14100.061,"end":14107.53,"text":"有的是半年一年可是在汛期的時候會發現他們的水確實是不堪使用我們就加強那個簡易自然水的強化讓他的這個水質會比過去還要更好這個是我們可以來強化的部分那我們在地方"},{"start":14116.681,"end":14135.573,"text":"有一些問題來提供給部長參考我們在明明是我們是水源地的地方比如說我是住在馬家鄉我們的水源是可以提供給都會區比如說屏東市這些鄰近的平地的鄉鎮甚至遠道鳳山可是我們沒有服務據點也就是說在我們"},{"start":14136.934,"end":14160.996,"text":"地區的生活的民眾如果他要申請這來水的話他一定要到都會區也就是說他要花很多的時間然後呢我們馬家、霧台、山地這三個地方沒有服務據點以外呢他的比如說他要繳費啊有一些比如說是一般不是一般的朋友比如說他是工程費用他不能到7-11繳也不能到一般的那個郵局繳他一定要到公司去繳那"},{"start":14161.596,"end":14185.611,"text":"我們明明是提供水源的人 可是我們享受不到這樣的服務第三個就是說我們希望有一個回饋機制我們已經供應這麼多年的水給都會區 可是卻沒有一般的回饋給我們原住民部落 所以這個部分應該經濟部這邊也要思考還有就是最後一個就是門牌取得的困難你要申請這籃水要門牌 可是這個門牌的取得"},{"start":14186.051,"end":14203.546,"text":"其實常常要主人自己去弄然後其實沒有一個專責的一個單位在負責做這些事情比如說國有地要變更或者是說它嚴管要可能因為居住地的範圍擴大了結果要嚴管的時候其實很多基礎的事情都是要勞駕"},{"start":14204.987,"end":14218.542,"text":"鄉公所 可是鄉公所沒有這樣的一個編制跟人力去做多餘的事情我是覺得說自來水公司應該可能要再編制一個所謂專責的一個單位在我們協助我們原鄉地區的自來水工作"},{"start":14220.994,"end":14246.688,"text":"這個分成幾個部分剛剛提到的這個檢疫自來水這個部分因為我們是補助給地方政府來做但是我們也會要求就是說在水質的部分或剛剛您提到加強檢驗的部分那我們既然補助給地方政府我們就會要求地方政府這個部分可能要更積極來落實那這是一個部分那剛剛提到的就是說有關於需不需要門牌或等等事實上我們現在都"},{"start":14248.874,"end":14261.062,"text":"從寬認定只要是地方政府認了我們都認所以這個我們再跟這個地方政府來做溝通專責單位能不能有一個窗口給我們原住民地區"},{"start":14263.366,"end":14289.675,"text":"跟委員報告大概我們在屏東區有新成立的一個區處那我們有在各鄉鎮裡面雖然不是每個鄉鎮都有一個服務所不過我們大概如果原住民區地區如果有這個需求的話我們盡量請我們的服務單位然後盡量跟當地的代表或民意代表或是村里長來做一些聯繫來協助他們OK好謝謝"},{"start":14291.496,"end":14313.057,"text":"好謝謝縣議委員謝謝部長好接下來我們請這個侯孟楷委員質詢好主席謝謝麻煩請拱部長請拱部長謝謝"},{"start":14321.497,"end":14343.237,"text":"好 部長好 部長本席針對能源的議題再跟您就教一下剛我從教育文化委員會過來 今天何安慧主委來那他在答詢其他委員的一個答 詢答的時候他答覆他說他認為核電是有穩定電價的作用那媒體把他下標 剛即時新聞也出來 您認不認同這個講法"},{"start":14345.49,"end":14372.543,"text":"但是它現在的比例大概只有即便是核二核三它重啟以後大概佔的比例大概是百分之十但是對整體的這個影響就是百分之十這個多元嘛我們一直強調是說能源其實是可以更多元不然台電現在也不用送重啟核三廠的計畫只要是多元安全的我們都所以核電是能夠穩定電價"},{"start":14374.383,"end":14400.957,"text":"有助穩定電價至少我們不會說成本的部分影響譬如說剛剛很多委員都在關心其實這從228之後到現在兩個月左右時間所以為什麼藍氣 藍煤 石油的價格都往上甚至破新高為什麼再生能源因為再生能源我們是本地的能源核能當然也是如果將來重啟的話的確是有"},{"start":14401.457,"end":14430.792,"text":"有助於就是因為國際的如果是能源價格波動的時候他比較不會受到影響好來那這樣子我想請教因為現在核電的部分持續他就在走這個程序那就是專業專業審查安全審查尤其核安很重要這個沒有辦法急另外一個部分就是說那我們比較短時看到的其實大家也都在講因為你也有這個要重啟其他藍美電廠的一個計畫或可能性那我現在想請教到底我們有沒有"},{"start":14431.532,"end":14460.188,"text":"這個我現在都是以一個最嚴謹的態度來去預估料敵從寬啊中東戰事真的不知道什麼時候會結束那我們現在夏天馬上來到五月進入就是用電的高峰那有沒有後續如果說真的緊張的一些其他的備援計畫或是備用方案甚至韓國政府也已經講了就是有這個什麼民間公務車要減少啊等等的部分"},{"start":14460.908,"end":14470.461,"text":"那我們到目前為止好像看起來還沒有只有卓院長一個月前講一句就說大家就是深入檢出啦意思就是說大家是精簡車輛使用"},{"start":14472.301,"end":14496.252,"text":"但我比較想要具體的做法有沒有還是我們認為是說我們不管怎麼樣我們都可以撐得過因為報告委員我們還是要看就是說我們的這個備用狀況嘛備存存存量狀況那因為我們現在的存量油的部分我們現在還是有140天雖然法定是90天這個都有講啦對對對所以都還符合那除非這個掉得很快我們就可能要思考"},{"start":14497.172,"end":14519.825,"text":"一直維持因為戰爭已經一個多月了它一直可以維持就表示我們一直進來掉得很快那這樣子本席就是問一些就比較數字層面因為我們相信制度不相信人不是說用人來判斷而是說我們制度怎麼樣有沒有掌握假設我們到什麼時間點我們的備存量到什麼時間點我們可能就要研議plan B"},{"start":14521.662,"end":14550.27,"text":"因為這樣就是說因為我也問過中油嘛我也問過中油一樣的問題其實這都是同一個邏輯我現在講的是說當中油到哪個油價飆到哪個時間點的時候中油沒有辦法完全吸收因為到目前為止其實從2月開始油價已經全面上升甚至有破歷史的天價可是中油都還是吸收什麼時候時間點是中油譬如說破到一桶多少錢的時候中油可能也沒有辦法它確實要反映"},{"start":14551.01,"end":14569.108,"text":"那這些有沒有在每一次我回得到答案都是每個禮拜院長會有這個會議啊所以滾動檢討啊但是部長您身為過去也擔任過秘書長您也是經濟部的這個主管其實更應該要內部有方案跟劇本"},{"start":14569.748,"end":14585.028,"text":"報告委員我們現在從事實上時間上的規劃因為比如說天然氣的調度事實上油比較沒有問題是100多天嘛那天然氣的部分我們就是往下看三個月我們就要先調到那再往後一個月我們會再往下"},{"start":14585.849,"end":14600.178,"text":"如果調不到的話或調得不夠的話那時候我們就要比較緊急的來做一些因應的處理那目前看起來是我們都還好都可以調得到而且說老實話全世界因應這個戰爭也都在適應"},{"start":14602.899,"end":14617.719,"text":"就是剛開始的時候 就大家也都是蝦子摸象蝦子過河 摸石過河剛開始大家不曉得怎麼樣去調度這件事情但是現在已經過了一個多月以後大家已經比較熟悉哪裡可以調得到比較清楚了那"},{"start":14618.46,"end":14644.76,"text":"有多產的部分他們也願意供應到這個市場現貨市場價格現貨市場出來了所以部長我還是提醒因為這個內部的資訊資料你們一定比國人跟委員都還來得清楚我一而再再三強調不是要找查而是我認為說政府應該要有預先劇本而不是發生狀況才來做所以為什麼我們固定的每一個禮拜都會對外說明"},{"start":14645.22,"end":14671.779,"text":"我們現在的存量狀況怎麼樣好那最後兩點啊因為現在剛也有劉建國委員關心這個藍媒的部分本席的選區也有林口火力發電廠它是藍媒發電那其實它影響的不只是台北市260萬人新北市4來萬人桃園200多萬人因為它這整個大台北地區都有空氣的影響過去本席曾在王美花部長的任內的時候我有提一個臨時提案"},{"start":14672.239,"end":14689.22,"text":"我也接受到王美花部長的一個承諾就是因為當時藍莓持續飆高所以有一年突破到704萬噸一年那我那時候就有講是說我們未來是以這為標準不能超過那到目前為止今年我們有沒有"},{"start":14689.4,"end":14713.369,"text":"目前的規劃不會都不會嗎就是還是要信守這個承諾因為我們過去提出來就是那個是一個高標那你如果說政府一直告訴我們說非核家園再生能源等等的那藍煤相對來講是比燃氣造成的空汙都還要嚴峻也因此林口火力發電廠都還維持這樣的一個標準林口的那是超超臨界是在煤裡面是最好的"},{"start":14714.77,"end":14730,"text":"如果說你要再炒說像以前賴清德院長講的什麼乾淨的沒的話我想一般的國人聽不進去好不好那一分鐘的時間也是一樣因為再生能源我們現在有在講那本席另外選區另外一個部分是何一場"},{"start":14731.141,"end":14747.832,"text":"合一廠現在沒有重啟的計畫沒有但本席之前就有提過合一廠的優勢在於是它相對來講還是比較北海岸地區人煙相對稀少還有它過去的電網都已經不好了是也因此在那邊應該有再生能源的"},{"start":14748.912,"end":14768.367,"text":"發展可能性如果假設我們合一廠能夠轉變為譬如說像您這邊有提到的生殖能、氫能等等的發電那未來它的電網的配置就會比較容易來供應那我過去也提出是不是針對合一廠那邊因為北海岸也有一些地熱也有一些洋流的優勢"},{"start":14769.628,"end":14786.957,"text":"那我們目前是不是可以要求我們來研究看看因為這個有牽涉到技術面的問題當然當地居民還有溝通的問題但是如果說以我們現在講嘛是再生能源來講總是它的溝通成本相對比較少而且我想說因為佈置成本已經完成了嘛對"},{"start":14787.737,"end":14812.067,"text":"過去合一廠那邊的電網都已經佈置完嘛所以現在合一廠如果說那個地方可以轉變成再生能源的發電不管是用洋流能、地熱能、氫能它都會對於我們有實質的幫助嘛好 這個我們來研究那部長什麼時候 總是研究要給我一個時間我跟委員報告那個合一廠現在最重要的工作是在做廚藝工作"},{"start":14813.327,"end":14835.099,"text":"我們先把我們會把廚藝的工作做到一個階段廚藝工作這個是兩部都可以進行吧那個跟委員報告我這樣子講喔是因為牽涉到還有規模的問題因為其實合宜廠是面積最小的一個廠然後我現在還要做室內乾除做了以後的空間他能不能做什麼事北海那部分如果有地熱潛力的部分我們會做地熱不然的話可能就是要做風力以這兩個來看我們會來做做一些相關的規劃是啊很好啊所以這個完全不衝突啊董事長"},{"start":14842.523,"end":14870.165,"text":"一方面是廚藝你持續照廚藝的腳步走但另外一方面你其他的部分你開始就可以去譬如說請專家學者來做地熱的了解那邊到底有沒有豐富的資源風力到底有沒有可行那未來以及我今天不是說今天講完明天就讓你去做我是講是說未來如果廚藝完成然後還有相對的發電的時候我們那邊要有多少的風機還是我們要用怎麼樣的地熱這種事現在就可以啟動規劃吧"},{"start":14872.216,"end":14885.579,"text":"我們來研究看看好 所以什麼時間點還是一樣要給我個時間表嗎我才能夠繼續追蹤三個月內本席等你三個月 好不好但是其實也請容許本席提醒部長"},{"start":14887.587,"end":14912.419,"text":"這個質詢之前我就已經提過台電應該也已經聽過本席這樣講這個其實是台電的資源其實是經濟部的資源不要把資源放著不用所以我願意再等你三個月但我希望這三個月真的是有投入專家學者去研究瞭解到底那裡適合做什麼樣的再生能源然後提出具體可行的方案而不是再來"},{"start":14913.8,"end":14933.722,"text":"再研議或是說再來雙手一攤說我們現在在做廚藝我想這樣的一個態度就不是一個積極的態度好不好感謝好謝謝侯孟凱偶委員蘇清泉蘇清泉蘇清泉委員接下來我們請伍麗華委員質詢"},{"start":14943.327,"end":14971.11,"text":"謝謝主席有請部長關切的議題有水利署地礦中心水利署還有地礦中心部長好我在上一屆非常的有幸能夠參與礦業法的修法那也在112年6月完成修正公布那這個把我們長年以來詬病的像是霸王條款忘年採礦"},{"start":14972.312,"end":14975.134,"text":"這個修31條47條之外呢還有一個是第63條就是關於礦業權利金回饋的部分那我們知道的就是113年就是完成了這個回饋金的撥放辦法"},{"start":14989.204,"end":15009.913,"text":"所以呢在去年114年應該是首次的播放那我們非常高興的就是我們終於可以落實取之於民用之於民取之於在地用之於在地這樣的一個想法觀念那我們也預估大概會有3.3萬名的周邊居民可以受惠"},{"start":15010.513,"end":15033.293,"text":"那這其中我們看到像經濟部這個115年有編列這個礦產權利金的回饋金是1.14億我想先請教一下有沒有如期轉發有報告委員去年10月完全就播放給受惠民眾大概3.4萬人"},{"start":15034.727,"end":15061.59,"text":"所以有3.4萬那確實的就是每個相公所都有發放出去都已經完成發放好那我在這邊就是想要特別提醒並不是發放現金就沒事了啦我還是希望說因為一定有其他的承諾好比工作機會公共建設因為這個知情同意的這樣的一個原則所以我是特別希望說"},{"start":15062.671,"end":15067.874,"text":"我們可以監督專款專用能夠實質投入這些受影響部落的環境維護我只是要提醒不要只有發放現金就好像覺得結束了我覺得這個部分我會希望說我們能夠繼續的追蹤然後另外一個部分我們也擔心就是這些舊的礦產"},{"start":15086.305,"end":15112.263,"text":"那到底有沒有依照這個修法之後的新法來重新進行諮商同意的程序請教一下你們有沒有查過全部都完成了嗎報告委員 目前齁要辦理原民諮商的總共六七個礦六七個礦六十七個對 那完成的已經剩四個礦那沒有完成的怎麼辦"},{"start":15114.435,"end":15124.32,"text":"還在辦理當中的算算的話好我在這邊就是希望說要針對沒有依法辦理遵照原基法第21條諮商同意這些礦產你們要啟動具體的採儲跟停止開發的機制拒絕這種假同意那這個部分你們可以做到嗎"},{"start":15135.987,"end":15148.241,"text":"我們每個月都會函詢當地的鄉鎮市公所那對於辦理中的有沒有延宕我們都有查詢 目前沒有這種情勢"},{"start":15149.002,"end":15176.356,"text":"那我就是希望說經濟部跟園民會合作針對這些礦業業者就原住民諮商同意所做出的這些承諾我再一次強調其實承諾有很多不是發放現金就了事希望能夠有一個管考追蹤那我也希望能夠給我一些就是那個時候他們針對每一個地方有關部落所做出的承諾紀錄我可以拿到這個資料嗎"},{"start":15179.723,"end":15192.575,"text":"好 謝謝就是方便我來做追蹤那第二個部分因為原鄉一定都很關心水那這個地方我們也看到政府有所謂的供水韌性要來解決"},{"start":15193.456,"end":15199.258,"text":"但是我看到的是預計要投入數十億要去處理這個降低漏水的問題高預算高韌性希望供水穩定可是在我們原鄉我們還是會受困於很多地方他不太願意申請自來水"},{"start":15211.781,"end":15239.394,"text":"那或者是他受困於目前的簡易自來水系統很老舊而且我們的問題很麻煩因為我們的水源取水口往往都是非常遠的一個距離所以感覺這一些杯水車薪就是預算很匱乏然後遇到颱風遇到山豬等等他就會斷水非常的辛苦那我在這邊就是想要知道說我們有沒有辦法多撥一點經費"},{"start":15241.115,"end":15262.46,"text":"到這個地方請教一下報告委員這個檢疫自來水部分在我們最新的第五級計畫裡面就檢疫自來水如何加強它的韌性跟它的水質我們增補很多經費尤其它的一個配水池的天數以前一到兩天現在都希望做到三到五天"},{"start":15263.18,"end":15275.926,"text":"第二個所有的管線我們希望用好一點的管材還有你剛剛談到的容易因為驅衰點受到一些野生動物或是天災的影響我們都加強更多的經費來做相關的保護工作我就是因為我們很多街道的陳情他們都會提到要換管換管但是有8年"},{"start":15285.551,"end":15302.865,"text":"這個我們都可以突破 而且我們特別跟委員報告我們就這個檢驗自來水的水質的部分從去年開始我們已經投入很多經費來做整體改善 包含用紫外線或者是用砂濾池或者是加一些濾氣消毒等等還有RO逆滲透 我們都大幅來改進"},{"start":15306.488,"end":15322.135,"text":"我想了解因為我光是自己的部落我每天看那個群組我都快要昏倒了他們說有那麼困難嗎我自己也覺得不好意思所以我希望如果會後有機會再跟各位討論但是我更重視的應該部長很了解因為我總質詢多次都關心我們部落很缺排水系統"},{"start":15329.659,"end":15356.504,"text":"它會造成什麼嚴重後果一大雨一颱風因為它沒有排水系統它就地下浸流所以很多地方就會掏空所以這個部分非常的嚴重所以我希望是說我們看到115年度水資源防洪公務預算是508億這樣的一個供水跟排水的一個水利的大餅我也希望有沒有辦法去保障一下原鄉的分配權"},{"start":15359.166,"end":15369.41,"text":"報告委員你所談的部分應該都是在山區那山區一般都是農業部的一個權責那我們現在在行政院的所以流域"},{"start":15375.413,"end":15395.443,"text":"我講的是部落排水我們很多部落都沒有排水系統我們是想說我們在現在所以留意的一個大的平台裡面在行政院的平台裡面我們可以提案來就這個部分來努力我希望也可以到辦公室我可以講得更清楚因為還有時間那最後再給我半分鐘就是我有接到一個陳情花蓮"},{"start":15396.624,"end":15406.368,"text":"安通溫泉泡腳池封閉的一個陳情那因為地方的公民運動他們想要恢復但是我個人我也認為因為他是野蜥因為行水區的問題我覺得封閉我覺得也是對的因為對縣政府或者是鄉公所來講其實壓力啊圍管啊安全啊因為不合法也都很沉重但是我想請教一個簡單的問題因為這個安通溫泉的泡腳池他其實已經"},{"start":15427.537,"end":15439.367,"text":"營運30多年所以我認為這個行水區應該是可以檢討的因為他營運30多年都沒有問題那我不曉得說這個我們經濟部或水利署意見如何"},{"start":15441.696,"end":15459.51,"text":"委員 這個是我第一次看到了那是不是會後我再來瞭解這個我們有沒有辦法來怎麼樣因為這是地方公民運動我們來瞭解一下好不好請隨意署就瞭解一下謝謝主席 謝謝部長謝謝吳立外委好 接下來我們請陳冠廷委員質詢"},{"start":15472.055,"end":15497.91,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請部長跟能源署的代理署長好 請這個工部長跟能源署這個人好部長好 署長好那我想最近我們台灣有一個討論就是跟核能相關的這個議題嘛那不 核能的議題裡面我想這個是有很多各種不同的意見不過其中我們想最好最樂觀的看法好了就假設"},{"start":15499.244,"end":15519.853,"text":"核二或者是其他重新啟用的話大概可以貢獻百分之多少的能源大概百分之十最理想的狀況全部加起來是百分之十那這符合我們未來不管是台積電擴產不管是資料庫的這些運轉或者是其他的方式的這種各種的能源需求嗎在這幾年內當然還有其他的東西"},{"start":15522.034,"end":15549.309,"text":"最近聽到很多吼包含一般的民眾在想說奇怪啊這幾年怎麼大家都沒有在談論這個綠色能源怎麼這幾年在再生能源的討論好像似乎政府開始試著是呃躲著閃著閉著那各種的這種呃不管是在野黨的委員的攻擊就是說不管是風光啊什麼都是貪腐啊什麼的好像大家也是覺得說反正是不管我們的事情就不需要再花很多一直在努力對完全沒有放棄完全沒有放棄也不該放棄嘛對不對絕對不會放棄嘛"},{"start":15551.71,"end":15574.905,"text":"因為我看起來說在未來的五年十年之內就算在最好的狀況之下把核能全部重啟那你還是不夠啊那不夠的話你怎麼可以說我只要求這個我沒有辦法不僅僅沒有想說要怎麼節流也沒有想說要怎麼開源那開源其實很簡單就想說你最快速的我們就拿中國當作比方好了中國單一國家貢獻全球的太陽能它是新增的60%"},{"start":15576.98,"end":15583.368,"text":"中國在風力的這個未來就是新增的這個比例好像25年26年27年的現在比例都是佔大概60%左右"},{"start":15585.596,"end":15613.884,"text":"這也是我看到在野黨在稱讚說啊這個中國的這個基建多厲害啊基礎建設多好啊他們的太陽能板有鋪設多多啊他們的風電鋪設多多奇怪怎麼在台灣就變得好像是在攻擊我們自己的那個再生能源的能力我覺得這是一個很無法理解的地方啊因為你不能一方面只要這些風電跟這個太陽能在中國就是好的放在台灣就是必然就是不可以去推動的這是完全不符合這個世界潮流"},{"start":15614.824,"end":15633.64,"text":"中國在再生能源的成長說實在話它是對整個它的溫室的這個氣體的這個排放是有所來去檢定另一方面對於石油的依賴也是有可以檢定所以你如果要講中國的好話的話那為什麼你在台灣就不能夠試用怎麼同一個標準不能夠試用在兩個國家呢"},{"start":15634.781,"end":15654.374,"text":"我一直都不太懂這個事情所以我在這邊還是要再去呼籲再生能源包含我們台積電都是需要使用再生能源的這是要跟國際競爭裡面或者是在任何的ESH等等的發展上面都是需要的你不可能只偏廢任何一種能源那我再說一下好了這種中小型核電的這種模組"},{"start":15655.808,"end":15682.41,"text":"我上次在受到法國衛生人物邀請的時候我有去他們的原子能研究中心去我就詢問說請問這個我們什麼時候才有辦法有具備這個能力目前還沒有完整的具備這個能力你現在就還沒有完整具備這個能力你怎麼去開發你怎麼去直接來去設置就還沒有完整的具備這個能力的時候你就算有這個能力你要設置要花多少時間去還品要在哪裡建又要再重新這個公民的討論要多久10年還是20年"},{"start":15684.542,"end":15702.879,"text":"是不是所以我認為這都是緩不濟急的我們現在要講的是未來五年十年因應台灣經濟發展我們的能源要怎麼樣去處理他們在跟我們講說哇我們要這個快速採用這個核能發電啊然後甚至於還有人說核四啊什麼這不可能的事情時間就要花很久嘛"},{"start":15703.78,"end":15723.925,"text":"部件立刻要解決的問題你要怎麼去把它彌補住一個是LNG嘛對不對我們就是天然氣發電但是另外一種方式就是我們現在即刻要使用的還是一樣是綠能啊再生能源還是一樣我們要急需再去去退展啊你不可以讓中小企業越來越不想投資因為動不動就是這個也也這個顧此思彼"},{"start":15725.047,"end":15753.909,"text":"中小企業如果不願意來去投資這樣子的再生能源的產業的話那以後怎麼辦我必須要還是很正視這個問題啦不管是地熱也好啦或者是這個太陽能啦這個風力啦等等的我們必須還是要持續政府還是要做民眾的後盾啦不然還有儲能的部分不然每次都要躲閃躲飄只要怕爭議就是怕爭議嘛因為只要我們只要"},{"start":15754.97,"end":15775.659,"text":"來去推展這個時候然後就會被在野黨來去指責然後我們就刪奪票這是不對的在野黨的天職是指責在野黨的天職是監督但是執政黨的天職就是執行把該做的事情做好對 包委員我們任何有挑戰我們就會一一克服他在政委員是一定要做一定會做好 謝謝我們支持謝謝部長好 謝謝陳冠廷委員"},{"start":15785.448,"end":15793.856,"text":"吳思瑤 吳思瑤 吳思瑤林倩琦 林倩琦 林倩琦林楚英 林楚英 林楚英委員好"},{"start":15795.879,"end":15821.741,"text":"我稍微快速講一下今天的結論你們這個參與的政府各單位第一個法人科技預算的話這個可能要按照這個領域適當分配這個各法人的一個預算那這樣子可以發揮他專業的功能切記不可獨大獨佔再來第二個很多的這個委員非常關心無人機相關的不管是研發商轉"},{"start":15822.862,"end":15836.997,"text":"所以在這個相關計畫成果分年KPI上轉的成果以及我們飛鴻供應鏈在當中我們零組件國產的自主化比例是多少那一週內就交個報告給我們本席跟這個經紀人會來"},{"start":15839.005,"end":15859.599,"text":"第三個的話 我們很多委員關心 尤其是水利署自來水跟這邊的供給 尤其在偏鄉然後另外的話就是因為汛期大了所以新竹地區的治水等等 其他地區的治水防洪請盡速按照這個延續型計畫 已及格的新興計畫 趕快投入運作"},{"start":15862.561,"end":15886.597,"text":"那另外可能在其他有人在有關於海外地區服務中心以及CPTPP的一些的努力這個也在請部會相關準備報告那在深淵我想這個會努力達成那也想辦法在核電多元的這個重啟之後儘量讓我們的一個能源的韌性更加的強健"},{"start":15887.864,"end":15912.322,"text":"那麼所登記的發言除不在場外 其他都已經發言完畢 訊訊結束二 委員徐勛穎所提書面質詢列入記錄 並刊登公報再來 三 書面質詢和未及答覆部分 請相關單位一週內以書面答覆並複製本會委員另要求期限者從期鎖定"},{"start":15913.544,"end":15936.731,"text":"第四 各位委員針對預算案如有相關提案請於5月4號星期一下午5點前送經濟委員會辦公室 以利後續會診必時不再收案討論事項所列議案詢答結束 令定期繼續進行審查謝謝大家現在休息"},{"start":15944.718,"end":15962.688,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":16017.827,"end":16017.848,"text":"哦"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}