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用馬鈴薯檢疫條件重點說明"},{"start":2438.96,"end":2442.46,"text":"我國加工用馬鈴薯部分仰賴進口"},{"start":2442.46,"end":2447.46,"text":"只要進口需求月份為每年的7月到次年的1月"},{"start":2448.07,"end":2448.57,"text":"而且"},{"start":2449.45,"end":2452.45,"text":"以美國為主要的進口來源國"},{"start":2453.1,"end":2455.1,"text":"以供應國內需求"},{"start":2455.1,"end":2462.1,"text":"針對115年2月6日公告實施之美國產加工用馬鈴薯輸入檢疫條件"},{"start":2462.1,"end":2464.1,"text":"重點分數如下"},{"start":2464.1,"end":2466.1,"text":"在美國輸出前的管理"},{"start":2466.1,"end":2473.1,"text":"加工用馬鈴薯輸出前需取得美國檢疫單位出具的檢疫證明書"},{"start":2473.1,"end":2481.1,"text":"並規定加助證明該批馬鈴薯已經施用發芽抑制劑"},{"start":2481.1,"end":2483.1,"text":"且緊攻加工使用"},{"start":2483.1,"end":2487.1,"text":"如果發現有發芽、附帶土壤"},{"start":2487.1,"end":2490.1,"text":"或者是有8種我們所關切的病蟲害"},{"start":2490.1,"end":2492.1,"text":"就不可以輸入"},{"start":2492.53,"end":2494.53,"text":"那到達台灣的邊境"},{"start":2494.53,"end":2497.53,"text":"我們進行了這個邊境抽菸"},{"start":2497.53,"end":2499.53,"text":"輸入人必須向"},{"start":2500.5,"end":2502.5,"text":"龍眼布"},{"start":2501.87,"end":2503.87,"text":"黃檢署申請檢疫"},{"start":2503.87,"end":2505.87,"text":"繳交美國檢疫證明書"},{"start":2505.87,"end":2509.87,"text":"同時聲明該批馬鈴薯輸入之後"},{"start":2509.87,"end":2511.87,"text":"是作為加工"},{"start":2512.72,"end":2514.72,"text":"檢疫人員檢疫"},{"start":2514.72,"end":2516.72,"text":"是否有附著土壤"},{"start":2516.72,"end":2518.72,"text":"是否沒有病蟲害"},{"start":2518.72,"end":2520.72,"text":"有沒有發芽的狀況"},{"start":2520.72,"end":2522.72,"text":"才評定檢疫合格"},{"start":2524.11,"end":2527.11,"text":"在這些做法事實上跟過去相同"},{"start":2527.11,"end":2529.11,"text":"那衛生福利部"},{"start":2529.41,"end":2531.41,"text":"食品藥物管理署"},{"start":2531.41,"end":2534.41,"text":"就按照它的規定進行查驗"},{"start":2534.41,"end":2537.41,"text":"如果檢疫人員發現有發芽"},{"start":2537.41,"end":2538.41,"text":"就通知"},{"start":2540.12,"end":2542.12,"text":"衛生福利部食藥署"},{"start":2542.12,"end":2544.12,"text":"進行遣減的檢測"},{"start":2544.12,"end":2545.12,"text":"如果有超標"},{"start":2545.12,"end":2547.12,"text":"就不會流入加工體系"},{"start":2548.68,"end":2550.68,"text":"當我們檢出發芽"},{"start":2550.68,"end":2553.68,"text":"發霉或者是腐爛的處理"},{"start":2554.2,"end":2558.2,"text":"的時候我們怎麼樣來進行相關的流程"},{"start":2558.2,"end":2560.2,"text":"事實上我們一經確認"},{"start":2560.2,"end":2562.2,"text":"沒有遣減超標馬鈴薯"},{"start":2562.2,"end":2565.2,"text":"如果有發芽發霉或者腐爛的情形"},{"start":2565.2,"end":2567.2,"text":"就由農業部房檢署"},{"start":2567.2,"end":2570.2,"text":"與衛生福利部食藥署共同合作"},{"start":2570.2,"end":2572.2,"text":"要求業者整櫃"},{"start":2572.2,"end":2574.2,"text":"推運消費"},{"start":2574.2,"end":2577.2,"text":"或者是將該批馬鈴薯封緘後"},{"start":2577.2,"end":2580.2,"text":"直接送到配合檢疫的指定區"},{"start":2580.2,"end":2581.2,"text":"在加工前"},{"start":2581.2,"end":2584.2,"text":"在本部房檢署監督之下"},{"start":2584.2,"end":2586.2,"text":"由業者逐批"},{"start":2586.2,"end":2587.2,"text":"逐櫃"},{"start":2587.2,"end":2589.2,"text":"逐科選北檢查"},{"start":2589.2,"end":2592.2,"text":"將發芽發霉後腐爛的馬鈴薯"},{"start":2592.2,"end":2594.2,"text":"整顆去汁銷毀"},{"start":2594.2,"end":2597.2,"text":"不會進入加工程序"},{"start":2597.2,"end":2599.2,"text":"也不會流入市場"},{"start":2599.69,"end":2601.69,"text":"那挑選過程"},{"start":2601.69,"end":2603.69,"text":"仍然是邊境檢疫的一環"},{"start":2604.89,"end":2610.89,"text":"我們將持續依據國際規範與科學風險的評估原則"},{"start":2610.89,"end":2611.89,"text":"審慎檢視"},{"start":2611.89,"end":2616.89,"text":"並滾動檢討相關房檢疫措施"},{"start":2616.89,"end":2618.89,"text":"還有食品安全的相關措施"},{"start":2618.89,"end":2620.89,"text":"兼顧貿易便捷化"},{"start":2620.89,"end":2623.89,"text":"並與衛生福利部密切合作"},{"start":2623.89,"end":2625.89,"text":"透過輸出前管理"},{"start":2625.89,"end":2627.89,"text":"邊境查驗"},{"start":2628.34,"end":2633.34,"text":"到加工端這些的管理層層把關"},{"start":2633.85,"end":2637.85,"text":"確保進口馬鈴薯符合檢疫及食品安全規範"},{"start":2637.85,"end":2640.85,"text":"維護國內的農業生產安全"},{"start":2640.85,"end":2641.85,"text":"以及國人健康"},{"start":2641.85,"end":2642.85,"text":"以上報告"},{"start":2644.14,"end":2648.14,"text":"好 謝謝農業部胡振次的報告跟說明"},{"start":2648.14,"end":2653.14,"text":"接下來我請第四位衛福部莊藏次進行專題報告"},{"start":2653.86,"end":2655.86,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2661.45,"end":2663.45,"text":"主席各位委員先生"},{"start":2663.45,"end":2664.45,"text":"女士先生"},{"start":2664.45,"end":2668.45,"text":"今天大院財政委員會召開全體委員會議"},{"start":2668.45,"end":2671.45,"text":"本部誠邀列席報告深感榮幸"},{"start":2671.45,"end":2676.45,"text":"資助馬鈴薯輸入至邊境管制檢疫查驗等機制"},{"start":2676.45,"end":2681.45,"text":"如何保障國人食品安全及後市場抽驗預算執行情形"},{"start":2681.45,"end":2683.45,"text":"提出專題報告"},{"start":2683.45,"end":2685.45,"text":"敬請各位委員不吝會語指教"},{"start":2685.45,"end":2689.45,"text":"衛生福利部負責食品衛生安全"},{"start":2689.45,"end":2694.45,"text":"對於輸入馬鈴薯的食安管理規範及做法沒有放寬"},{"start":2694.45,"end":2695.45,"text":"維持不變"},{"start":2695.45,"end":2698.45,"text":"包含衛生標準輸入查驗流程"},{"start":2698.45,"end":2701.45,"text":"以及對於違規產品的處置"},{"start":2701.95,"end":2705.95,"text":"輸入馬鈴薯由農業部及衛生福利部雙重把關"},{"start":2705.95,"end":2708.95,"text":"農業部負責發芽等檢疫議題"},{"start":2708.95,"end":2711.95,"text":"衛務部負責衛生安全"},{"start":2711.95,"end":2717.95,"text":"加工用馬鈴薯在輸入台灣前應符合農業部的檢疫條件規範"},{"start":2717.95,"end":2723.95,"text":"抵台後在邊境上需通過檢疫及食品衛生安全查驗"},{"start":2723.95,"end":2725.95,"text":"以及後市場抽驗之把關"},{"start":2727.52,"end":2732.52,"text":"馬鈴薯論在任何階段都要符合衛生標準等食品安全規定"},{"start":2732.52,"end":2740.52,"text":"我國針對馬鈴薯定有包含輪回減在內200ppm的限量規範"},{"start":2740.52,"end":2749.52,"text":"由腐爛發霉輪回減超標等情形皆因予以整顆丟棄不得流入加工用途"},{"start":2749.52,"end":2751.52,"text":"在邊境管控環節"},{"start":2751.52,"end":2755.52,"text":"本部食品藥物管理署執行輸入查驗"},{"start":2755.52,"end":2759.52,"text":"以產品風險進行抽樣檢驗"},{"start":2759.52,"end":2765.52,"text":"檢驗項目包含農藥殘留、重金屬及輪回減等項目"},{"start":2765.52,"end":2770.52,"text":"經檢驗不符規定要求產品退印或銷毀"},{"start":2771.16,"end":2775.16,"text":"對於經農業部檢疫發現有發芽問題的整批馬鈴薯"},{"start":2775.16,"end":2780.16,"text":"將先由農業部監督業者剔除發芽整顆馬鈴薯"},{"start":2780.16,"end":2785.16,"text":"再由衛生單位執行抽樣檢驗、輪回減"},{"start":2785.16,"end":2788.16,"text":"經檢驗不符規定整批銷毀"},{"start":2789.03,"end":2792.03,"text":"本部以國人健康為最高原則"},{"start":2792.03,"end":2795.03,"text":"將持續與跨部會密切合作"},{"start":2795.03,"end":2798.03,"text":"與邊境查驗及後市長抽驗"},{"start":2798.03,"end":2801.03,"text":"確認馬鈴薯符合相關規定共同把關"},{"start":2801.03,"end":2805.03,"text":"本部城大院各委員之指教及監督在此進行現審"},{"start":2805.03,"end":2807.03,"text":"並請各位委員繼續予以支持"},{"start":2807.03,"end":2808.03,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2809.36,"end":2813.36,"text":"謝謝我們衛福部莊長次的報告跟說明"},{"start":2813.36,"end":2816.36,"text":"接下來我請行政院主計總處陳主計長"},{"start":2816.36,"end":2818.36,"text":"做專題跟預算內容的報告"},{"start":2822.97,"end":2824.97,"text":"主席、各位委員、女士"},{"start":2824.97,"end":2828.97,"text":"今天很榮幸邀邀練習貴委員會來報告"},{"start":2828.97,"end":2832.97,"text":"以下緊就本總處114年度施政績效"},{"start":2832.97,"end":2838.97,"text":"115年度施政計畫重點和預算編列情形"},{"start":2838.97,"end":2842.97,"text":"還有直轄市和縣市一般性補助災害準備金"},{"start":2842.97,"end":2846.97,"text":"和第二預備金等科目預算編列情形提出報告"},{"start":2846.97,"end":2850.97,"text":"第一個先就本總處114年施政績效部分"},{"start":2850.97,"end":2852.97,"text":"稅績和會計部分"},{"start":2852.97,"end":2856.97,"text":"一編制完成115年度中央政府總預算案"},{"start":2856.97,"end":2858.97,"text":"和附屬單位預算中計表"},{"start":2858.97,"end":2860.97,"text":"於114年8月29日"},{"start":2860.97,"end":2862.97,"text":"送請大院來審議"},{"start":2862.97,"end":2865.97,"text":"第二個就是編制完成114年度"},{"start":2865.97,"end":2867.97,"text":"中央政府總預算追加預算案"},{"start":2867.97,"end":2871.97,"text":"中央政府丹那斯、颱風及728豪雨"},{"start":2871.97,"end":2873.97,"text":"災後復原重建特別預算案"},{"start":2873.97,"end":2877.97,"text":"也是在114年8月29日審議通過"},{"start":2877.97,"end":2880.97,"text":"三編制完成中央政府總因應"},{"start":2880.97,"end":2885.97,"text":"國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安任性特別預算"},{"start":2885.97,"end":2888.97,"text":"於114年10月17日審議通過"},{"start":2888.97,"end":2891.97,"text":"編制完成中央政府馬花蓮馬太安西"},{"start":2891.97,"end":2894.97,"text":"驗社福災後重建特別預算案"},{"start":2894.97,"end":2898.97,"text":"於114年12月2日審議通過"},{"start":2898.97,"end":2901.97,"text":"編制完成113年度中央政府總決算及"},{"start":2901.97,"end":2903.97,"text":"附屬單位決算中計表及"},{"start":2903.97,"end":2906.97,"text":"中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫"},{"start":2906.97,"end":2911.97,"text":"第四期特別決算在114年7月29日審議通過"},{"start":2911.97,"end":2913.97,"text":"二、統計業務部分案本"},{"start":2913.97,"end":2916.97,"text":"本總書案時編布物價和國民所得"},{"start":2916.97,"end":2919.97,"text":"各項金色的一個統計"},{"start":2919.97,"end":2923.97,"text":"並不斷強化與國際接軌提升統計服務能量"},{"start":2925.04,"end":2928.04,"text":"另普查和抽樣調查業務部分"},{"start":2928.04,"end":2930.04,"text":"分每年辦理一次的普查作業進程"},{"start":2930.04,"end":2934.04,"text":"完成114年農林業普查試驗調查"},{"start":2934.04,"end":2938.04,"text":"延年115年工業及服務業普查規劃構想"},{"start":2938.04,"end":2941.04,"text":"並持續按月辦理人力資源調查與"},{"start":2941.04,"end":2944.04,"text":"受雇員工薪資調查及完成"},{"start":2944.04,"end":2946.04,"text":"112年國戶統計報告及"},{"start":2946.04,"end":2949.04,"text":"113年家庭收支調查報告"},{"start":2949.04,"end":2953.04,"text":"二、本總書115年度施政計畫重點"},{"start":2953.04,"end":2956.04,"text":"預稅及和會計部分持續強化"},{"start":2956.04,"end":2959.04,"text":"中程計畫預算制度落實臨機預算精神"},{"start":2959.04,"end":2961.04,"text":"配合當前政府施政重點"},{"start":2961.04,"end":2965.04,"text":"合併116年度中央政府總預算案及"},{"start":2965.04,"end":2967.04,"text":"附屬單位預算及中計表"},{"start":2967.04,"end":2970.04,"text":"並加強特種基金財務控管"},{"start":2970.04,"end":2972.04,"text":"提升會計決算和財務報道品質"},{"start":2972.04,"end":2975.04,"text":"並協助機關強化內部控制監督作業"},{"start":2975.04,"end":2977.04,"text":"二、統計和普查"},{"start":2977.51,"end":2979.51,"text":"普查及抽樣調查業務部分將持續"},{"start":2979.51,"end":2982.51,"text":"經歷各項金色統計辦理技術"},{"start":2982.51,"end":2984.51,"text":"以及提升統計服務效能"},{"start":2984.51,"end":2986.51,"text":"並依普查作業進程"},{"start":2986.51,"end":2988.51,"text":"辦理每年一次的同意於"},{"start":2988.51,"end":2992.51,"text":"漁牧業普查實地訪查與"},{"start":2992.51,"end":2994.51,"text":"工業服務業普查試驗調查"},{"start":2995.53,"end":2999.53,"text":"各單位詳細重點請參閱報告內容"},{"start":2999.53,"end":3002.53,"text":"本總書115年度預算案編列情形"},{"start":3002.53,"end":3005.53,"text":"稅入編列139萬3000元"},{"start":3005.53,"end":3008.53,"text":"稅出編列17億9千136萬4千元"},{"start":3010.85,"end":3015.85,"text":"比114年度預算數增列3億5038萬元"},{"start":3015.85,"end":3018.85,"text":"主要是增加每年辦理一次的"},{"start":3018.85,"end":3021.85,"text":"每五年辦理一次的農民漁牧業普查"},{"start":3021.85,"end":3025.85,"text":"正式查訪作業經費2億7千6百96萬1千元"},{"start":3025.85,"end":3029.85,"text":"以及辦理每五年一次的工業服務業普查"},{"start":3029.85,"end":3033.85,"text":"第二次試驗調查作業經費2千898萬3000元"},{"start":3033.85,"end":3036.85,"text":"詳細編列內容參閱14頁至18頁"},{"start":3036.85,"end":3040.85,"text":"那至於直轄市"},{"start":3041.16,"end":3044.16,"text":"115年度直轄市和縣市一般性補助款"},{"start":3044.16,"end":3047.16,"text":"在案準備及第二預備金科目編列情形"},{"start":3047.16,"end":3051.16,"text":"115年度編列直轄市和縣市一般性補助"},{"start":3051.16,"end":3053.16,"text":"2,501億元"},{"start":3053.16,"end":3057.16,"text":"在案準備及50億元及第二預備金80億元"},{"start":3057.16,"end":3058.16,"text":"簡要說明如下"},{"start":3058.16,"end":3062.16,"text":"一般性補助款的一個直轄市和縣市一般性補助款"},{"start":3062.16,"end":3066.16,"text":"因為財政收支化、風法修法以後"},{"start":3066.16,"end":3071.16,"text":"地方貨配中央統籌分配稅大增4,165億元"},{"start":3071.16,"end":3074.16,"text":"115年度達8,841億元"},{"start":3074.16,"end":3078.16,"text":"各市縣政府已有四組參與制印其自治事項"},{"start":3078.16,"end":3081.16,"text":"為落實地方自治精神確保各市縣政府所獲"},{"start":3081.16,"end":3086.16,"text":"徵裁員能夠妥善運用及使全體國民受到均等的照顧"},{"start":3086.16,"end":3091.16,"text":"其補助事項是必須做配合、做合理的一個調整"},{"start":3091.16,"end":3094.16,"text":"配合調整的事項主要是包括"},{"start":3095.26,"end":3098.26,"text":"中央對直轄市和縣市補助辦法第二條"},{"start":3098.26,"end":3100.26,"text":"一般性補助的補助範圍"},{"start":3100.26,"end":3103.26,"text":"包括經常性、補給性、基本建設或"},{"start":3103.26,"end":3106.26,"text":"委運性質、財政均衡等事項"},{"start":3106.26,"end":3110.26,"text":"115年度直轄市和縣市一般性補助款分配情形"},{"start":3112.44,"end":3118.44,"text":"本總署也邀請中央各機關和各市縣市代表共同研討確定"},{"start":3118.99,"end":3121.99,"text":"有關各項補助經費的內容和用途說明如下"},{"start":3121.99,"end":3127.99,"text":"經常性、普及性、基本設施和委運性質的專項補助1764億元"},{"start":3127.99,"end":3131.99,"text":"主要包括教育部主管813億元"},{"start":3131.99,"end":3137.99,"text":"是辦理二至未滿六歲的幼兒教育與照顧"},{"start":3137.99,"end":3141.99,"text":"衛福部主管編列337億元"},{"start":3141.99,"end":3145.99,"text":"是未滿兩歲嬰幼兒的照顧"},{"start":3145.99,"end":3148.99,"text":"教育部主管編列155億元"},{"start":3148.99,"end":3151.99,"text":"是辦理T-Pass行政院通勤月票執行計畫安心模圈"},{"start":3151.99,"end":3155.99,"text":"道路交通系統建置的一個計畫"},{"start":3157.93,"end":3160.93,"text":"以上各主管部會由那個"},{"start":3160.93,"end":3167.93,"text":"各黨紀 會院115年4月17日黨團協商結論將由其所屬委員會審議"},{"start":3167.93,"end":3172.93,"text":"社會福利經費406億元是補助各市縣政府低收入戶"},{"start":3172.93,"end":3176.93,"text":"身心障礙老人婦女青少年等兒童的一個經費"},{"start":3176.93,"end":3180.93,"text":"財政軍團補助及考核獎勵331億元主要是"},{"start":3180.93,"end":3184.93,"text":"保障115年各市縣政府獲批中央統籌分配稅"},{"start":3184.93,"end":3189.93,"text":"一般性補助款計畫型補助款不低於114年度獲配合度"},{"start":3189.93,"end":3191.93,"text":"災害準備金部分"},{"start":3192.58,"end":3194.58,"text":"現行中央政府"},{"start":3194.79,"end":3199.79,"text":"每自91年度每一年編列災害準備金20億元或50億元"},{"start":3199.79,"end":3205.79,"text":"114年度考慮考量台灣為處地震帶及受極端氣候影響"},{"start":3205.79,"end":3208.79,"text":"各種災害規模頻傳規模逐漸破到"},{"start":3208.79,"end":3214.79,"text":"為因應因為為及時因應災害緊急應變需求"},{"start":3214.79,"end":3216.79,"text":"編列均編列50億元"},{"start":3216.79,"end":3218.79,"text":"那第二預備金的部分"},{"start":3218.79,"end":3223.79,"text":"以112年113年144年度"},{"start":3223.79,"end":3227.79,"text":"為例分別申請94、83、99億元"},{"start":3227.79,"end":3233.79,"text":"經行政院加控管實際核准動制分別73億和77億元"},{"start":3233.79,"end":3239.79,"text":"均在首編的第二預備金範圍內核准率是78、88、78"},{"start":3239.79,"end":3240.79,"text":"所以中央"},{"start":3241.58,"end":3242.58,"text":"中央機制"},{"start":3244.32,"end":3248.32,"text":"總預算至酬編至今通過執行以續續一年"},{"start":3248.32,"end":3251.32,"text":"所以為因應年度進行中花生酬編預算時"},{"start":3251.32,"end":3254.32,"text":"未予考量事項臨時正是在客觀環境"},{"start":3254.32,"end":3258.32,"text":"所以我們橫走近三年度實際動制情形"},{"start":3258.32,"end":3262.32,"text":"115年度編列第二預備金80億元以上報告"},{"start":3262.32,"end":3264.32,"text":"進行各位委員指教及支持"},{"start":3264.32,"end":3265.32,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":3267.57,"end":3270.57,"text":"謝謝我們主計總處的主機長陳主機長"},{"start":3270.57,"end":3273.57,"text":"接下來我請審計部陳審計長進行"},{"start":3274.69,"end":3275.69,"text":"報告說明"},{"start":3280.5,"end":3282.5,"text":"主席、各位委員、理事先生"},{"start":3283.4,"end":3285.4,"text":"緊緊檢要報告直下"},{"start":3285.66,"end":3291.66,"text":"113年度中央政府總結算及附屬單位結算及中計表"},{"start":3291.66,"end":3296.66,"text":"中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第四期特別結算"},{"start":3296.66,"end":3300.66,"text":"本部已依憲法規定的期限完成審核"},{"start":3300.66,"end":3302.66,"text":"各縣市政府年度總結算"},{"start":3302.66,"end":3307.66,"text":"一經各地方審計措施在法定期限內完成審核"},{"start":3307.66,"end":3311.66,"text":"提出重要審核意見2456項"},{"start":3311.66,"end":3316.66,"text":"114年度中央政府半年結算報告"},{"start":3316.66,"end":3318.66,"text":"本部已完成查核"},{"start":3318.66,"end":3322.66,"text":"各竹峽市政府半年結算"},{"start":3322.66,"end":3326.66,"text":"一經本部地方審計措施在法定期限內完成查核"},{"start":3326.66,"end":3329.66,"text":"提出重要審核意見63項"},{"start":3329.66,"end":3333.66,"text":"更新強化審計功能與樂蜀串新核心價值"},{"start":3333.66,"end":3338.66,"text":"未來六年以智慧審計、勇氣審計、破壞審計"},{"start":3338.66,"end":3341.66,"text":"熱性審計及共識戰略等四大面向"},{"start":3341.66,"end":3343.66,"text":"除夕審化、監督洞察"},{"start":3343.66,"end":3347.66,"text":"前瞻三大政府的審計功能專業發展"},{"start":3348.56,"end":3351.56,"text":"並除夕以創新書為進進審計業務"},{"start":3351.56,"end":3353.56,"text":"4.更新優化審核報告"},{"start":3353.56,"end":3355.56,"text":"編報內容及租信揭露"},{"start":3355.56,"end":3358.56,"text":"除夕審化重要書證議題查核專章"},{"start":3358.56,"end":3363.56,"text":"並匯編行政機關優良食物案例"},{"start":3363.56,"end":3368.56,"text":"推廣扣測行情及優化總結算審核報告租信揭露"},{"start":3369.14,"end":3373.14,"text":"5.導入多元資訊科技推動數位審計發展"},{"start":3373.14,"end":3378.14,"text":"具體作為包括除夕扣充數位審計模組及工具"},{"start":3378.14,"end":3381.14,"text":"應用大事劑分析與AI輔助審計"},{"start":3381.14,"end":3386.14,"text":"並推動公司部門、集合單位、專業交流與分享"},{"start":3386.98,"end":3390.98,"text":"及建立審計資料中心統整應用查核資料"},{"start":3390.98,"end":3393.98,"text":"6.加強審計培訓後續專業發展"},{"start":3393.98,"end":3396.98,"text":"除夕促進審計專業培訓"},{"start":3396.98,"end":3398.98,"text":"鼓勵數位住主學習"},{"start":3398.98,"end":3401.98,"text":"並擴展國際審計視野"},{"start":3402.89,"end":3409.89,"text":"7.更新推展公民參與近三年度已完成專家之行計553次"},{"start":3409.89,"end":3414.89,"text":"並發布1795則重要審計資訊"},{"start":3414.89,"end":3420.89,"text":"8.在審計綜合績效方面審核113年度結算"},{"start":3420.89,"end":3425.89,"text":"依法修正稅入收入結算增累16億元"},{"start":3425.89,"end":3427.89,"text":"減累16億元"},{"start":3429.46,"end":3430.46,"text":"依法修正"},{"start":3430.91,"end":3433.91,"text":"稅出租出結算增累40億元"},{"start":3433.91,"end":3435.91,"text":"減累54億元"},{"start":3435.91,"end":3437.91,"text":"考核各機關資金下"},{"start":3437.91,"end":3439.91,"text":"並報告監察院者66案"},{"start":3439.91,"end":3443.91,"text":"提出重要建議改善意見341項"},{"start":3443.91,"end":3447.91,"text":"認為有可能提升效能及增進公共利益"},{"start":3447.91,"end":3450.91,"text":"提出建議意見1013項"},{"start":3450.91,"end":3453.91,"text":"提出預警性意見232項"},{"start":3453.91,"end":3456.91,"text":"稽查財務上之維持"},{"start":3456.91,"end":3458.91,"text":"報請監察院處理者上案"},{"start":3458.91,"end":3461.91,"text":"移送司法機關偵辦者5案"},{"start":3461.91,"end":3464.91,"text":"通知各機關查明處理者117案"},{"start":3466.85,"end":3471.85,"text":"114年度預算執行情形本部級首時"},{"start":3471.85,"end":3475.85,"text":"114年度稅出預算251萬元"},{"start":3475.85,"end":3478.85,"text":"累計時收286億元"},{"start":3478.85,"end":3483.85,"text":"稅出預算17億9633萬元"},{"start":3483.85,"end":3488.85,"text":"累計支付17億9442萬元"},{"start":3488.85,"end":3491.85,"text":"115年度市政計畫重點"},{"start":3491.85,"end":3494.85,"text":"包括1.樂食監督旅行財務客軸"},{"start":3494.85,"end":3497.85,"text":"強化洞察提升市政效能"},{"start":3497.85,"end":3500.85,"text":"邁向前瞻展二期數脈動"},{"start":3502.27,"end":3505.27,"text":"以及創新市委啟動審計革新"},{"start":3505.27,"end":3508.27,"text":"3.115年度預算變略情形"},{"start":3508.27,"end":3512.27,"text":"本部級首時150年度"},{"start":3512.27,"end":3515.27,"text":"稅出預算案共變略232萬元"},{"start":3515.27,"end":3518.27,"text":"稅出預算案共變略18億1元"},{"start":3519.82,"end":3521.82,"text":"主案各機關單位預算分數如下"},{"start":3521.82,"end":3523.82,"text":"審計部單位預算"},{"start":3523.82,"end":3525.82,"text":"編列14億1元"},{"start":3527.15,"end":3530.15,"text":"審計部台北市審計處單位預算"},{"start":3530.15,"end":3532.15,"text":"編列8250萬1元"},{"start":3532.15,"end":3535.15,"text":"新北市審計處單位預算案"},{"start":3535.15,"end":3537.15,"text":"編列7550萬1元"},{"start":3537.15,"end":3540.15,"text":"桃園市審計處單位預算"},{"start":3540.15,"end":3542.15,"text":"編列6671萬1元"},{"start":3542.15,"end":3544.15,"text":"台中市審計處單位預算"},{"start":3544.15,"end":3547.15,"text":"編列7289萬1元"},{"start":3547.15,"end":3550.15,"text":"台南市審計處單位預算案"},{"start":3550.15,"end":3552.15,"text":"編列7354萬1元"},{"start":3552.15,"end":3555.15,"text":"高雄市審計處單位預算案"},{"start":3555.15,"end":3558.15,"text":"編列8981萬1元"},{"start":3558.15,"end":3560.15,"text":"以上為本部級首時"},{"start":3560.15,"end":3565.15,"text":"115年度施政計畫重點及預算案主要說明"},{"start":3565.15,"end":3570.15,"text":"敬請主席各位委員女士先生會以支持與指教"},{"start":3570.15,"end":3571.15,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":3571.15,"end":3575.15,"text":"好 謝謝陳審計長的說明跟報告"},{"start":3575.15,"end":3577.15,"text":"那接下來我們開始雜詢"},{"start":3577.15,"end":3578.15,"text":"我先做以下的宣告"},{"start":3578.15,"end":3580.15,"text":"每位出席委員發言時間8分鐘"},{"start":3580.15,"end":3582.15,"text":"必要時的延長2分鐘"},{"start":3582.15,"end":3584.15,"text":"每位列席委員發言時間14分鐘"},{"start":3584.15,"end":3586.15,"text":"今天上午10點截止發言登記"},{"start":3586.15,"end":3588.15,"text":"現在依登記的順序"},{"start":3588.15,"end":3592.15,"text":"請登記第一位嚴寬恒委員進行質詢"},{"start":3600.64,"end":3602.64,"text":"主席各位歷史觀人大家早"},{"start":3602.64,"end":3605.64,"text":"主席有請國內部胡次長"},{"start":3606.78,"end":3608.78,"text":"好 請農業部胡正四"},{"start":3610.69,"end":3612.69,"text":"好 還有哪一位"},{"start":3613.6,"end":3614.6,"text":"好 來"},{"start":3614.79,"end":3617.79,"text":"先請我們主席總處的陳主席長"},{"start":3617.79,"end":3618.79,"text":"陳主席長"},{"start":3626.12,"end":3627.12,"text":"委員好"},{"start":3627.12,"end":3628.12,"text":"主席長"},{"start":3628.12,"end":3629.12,"text":"早"},{"start":3629.12,"end":3631.12,"text":"那先跟你討論民生方面的問題"},{"start":3632.26,"end":3639.26,"text":"主席總處的主要工作是針對社會指標國民所得家庭收入調查及各項物價指數的進行統計"},{"start":3639.26,"end":3640.26,"text":"那因為我們今天"},{"start":3640.85,"end":3643.85,"text":"要討論就是說這個數據本身如果無法反映真實"},{"start":3643.85,"end":3646.85,"text":"那政府的施政方向是否會產生偏差"},{"start":3646.85,"end":3648.85,"text":"這個有很大的一個疑慮"},{"start":3648.85,"end":3655.85,"text":"1年1年家戶可知會所得中位數占平均數比例是87.45%"},{"start":3655.85,"end":3659.85,"text":"但是到了113年已經降到84.55"},{"start":3659.85,"end":3664.85,"text":"那這顯示家戶所得平均數的成長遠快於中位數"},{"start":3664.85,"end":3668.85,"text":"所以所得分配不均的趨勢越來越明顯"},{"start":3668.85,"end":3673.85,"text":"那主席總處對外發布的五等分位倍數從101年到113年"},{"start":3674.82,"end":3676.82,"text":"只增加了0.01倍"},{"start":3676.82,"end":3680.82,"text":"那這個數據呈現幾乎是完全沒有變動無法解釋"},{"start":3680.82,"end":3685.82,"text":"那民眾對於說薪資分配不均身體壓力巨大的感受落差"},{"start":3685.82,"end":3687.82,"text":"那是不是可以解讀說"},{"start":3688.96,"end":3690.96,"text":"大眾所關心的這些分配問題"},{"start":3690.96,"end":3693.96,"text":"已經無法單靠五等分配倍數來展現"},{"start":3693.96,"end":3694.96,"text":"這第一個問題"},{"start":3696.67,"end":3698.67,"text":"我們家庭收支調查的樣本數"},{"start":3699.62,"end":3703.62,"text":"從103年以來長達11年都維持在"},{"start":3704.25,"end":3706.25,"text":"16528戶"},{"start":3707.39,"end":3714.39,"text":"那這11年以來全國總家戶數母體增加了超過97萬戶"},{"start":3714.39,"end":3716.39,"text":"那以桃園為例"},{"start":3716.39,"end":3720.39,"text":"這個母體戶數這11年來增加了26.48%"},{"start":3720.39,"end":3721.39,"text":"但是"},{"start":3722.1,"end":3725.1,"text":"本數卻始終是1500戶"},{"start":3725.54,"end":3731.54,"text":"那用第17期調查的可支配所得的便利數"},{"start":3731.54,"end":3735.54,"text":"介於1.6%到1.9%"},{"start":3735.99,"end":3738.99,"text":"那是民國84年以來個期最高的"},{"start":3738.99,"end":3741.99,"text":"這就代表說統計誤差正在擴大"},{"start":3743.03,"end":3747.03,"text":"那民眾要知道如何對這份數據有信心"},{"start":3747.03,"end":3751.03,"text":"那我們身為專業的統計單位"},{"start":3751.03,"end":3753.03,"text":"那什麼時候要開始著手校正"},{"start":3753.03,"end":3754.03,"text":"有沒有要校正"},{"start":3754.03,"end":3755.03,"text":"先問我們主席總書"},{"start":3756.05,"end":3757.05,"text":"這兩個問題"},{"start":3758.54,"end":3762.54,"text":"我們一般抽樣的一個案件數並不是重點"},{"start":3762.54,"end":3766.54,"text":"而是說抽樣的一個那個有沒有精準"},{"start":3766.54,"end":3768.54,"text":"就是那個些樣本有沒有精準"},{"start":3768.54,"end":3769.54,"text":"分層有沒有分層的"},{"start":3769.54,"end":3771.54,"text":"不清楚請你大聲一點好不好"},{"start":3771.54,"end":3774.54,"text":"就是說我們抽樣的樣本數並不是說"},{"start":3774.54,"end":3778.54,"text":"因為我們是整個22縣市全部去做抽樣"},{"start":3778.54,"end":3782.54,"text":"那大概如果各個職銷是說差不多1500個樣本這樣子"},{"start":3782.54,"end":3785.54,"text":"但是問題就是說你有時候增加樣本"},{"start":3785.54,"end":3789.54,"text":"不見得說對他整個有很大的一個"},{"start":3789.54,"end":3793.54,"text":"一個那個所以本身我們目前一般"},{"start":3793.54,"end":3798.54,"text":"像我們是抽出1.9%1.8%"},{"start":3798.54,"end":3801.54,"text":"那但是也都高於每日的一個抽出的樣本"},{"start":3801.54,"end":3805.54,"text":"那所以這個部分就是看我們分層抽的一個準確度"},{"start":3805.54,"end":3808.54,"text":"這個部分我們是會加強這個部分"},{"start":3808.54,"end":3811.54,"text":"那你如果增加樣本數不見得能夠增加他的一個精準度"},{"start":3811.54,"end":3813.54,"text":"那怎麼樣能夠增加準確性"},{"start":3813.54,"end":3817.54,"text":"所以這個部分我們就會盡起來儘量來研究"},{"start":3817.54,"end":3821.54,"text":"那我請我們這個處長他跟你報告一下就是說怎樣來改善這個"},{"start":3821.54,"end":3823.54,"text":"盡量簡短好不好時間有限"},{"start":3823.54,"end":3828.54,"text":"其實那個在做調查的時候那個樣本數不是很絕對"},{"start":3828.54,"end":3829.54,"text":"我們在抽的好的就好"},{"start":3829.54,"end":3832.54,"text":"所以我們在分層這一部分我們做了很大的精進"},{"start":3832.54,"end":3836.54,"text":"我們也結合大數據的那個內政部那個國土資訊系統"},{"start":3836.54,"end":3838.54,"text":"那個整個分層我們大概"},{"start":3838.67,"end":3842.67,"text":"抽好以後先是看看我們大概整個層的一個互動狀況"},{"start":3842.67,"end":3845.67,"text":"所以目前的整個那個雖然是1萬6千多戶"},{"start":3845.67,"end":3849.67,"text":"但是我們的那個整個便利係數我們控制大概那個千分"},{"start":3849.67,"end":3852.67,"text":"大概在那個就百分之二以內"},{"start":3852.67,"end":3854.67,"text":"所以這個是部分"},{"start":3854.67,"end":3859.67,"text":"好再請教那收支調查是政府自訂社會福利最低工資"},{"start":3859.67,"end":3862.67,"text":"還有付稅調整的重要指標"},{"start":3862.67,"end":3864.67,"text":"如果說系統性的偏差"},{"start":3864.67,"end":3867.67,"text":"我們剛剛提到這個部分的話都將會實質好理"},{"start":3867.67,"end":3869.67,"text":"實際上我們就會差之千里"},{"start":3869.67,"end":3871.67,"text":"所以在政策的自訂"},{"start":3871.67,"end":3873.67,"text":"如果因為這個偏差"},{"start":3873.67,"end":3877.67,"text":"那可能就會導致後面整個一個系統性的"},{"start":3877.67,"end":3881.67,"text":"的一種不完整性"},{"start":3881.67,"end":3883.67,"text":"一種敗壞"},{"start":3883.67,"end":3885.67,"text":"那我再提到就是說"},{"start":3886.25,"end":3892.25,"text":"我們看到這15個執行率連續三年到四年未達八成的基金"},{"start":3892.25,"end":3896.25,"text":"特別是國立空中大學還有國立文化機構作業基金"},{"start":3896.25,"end":3898.25,"text":"還有客發基金"},{"start":3898.25,"end":3902.25,"text":"這三者連續四年執行率甚至不到四成"},{"start":3902.25,"end":3904.25,"text":"所以連續四年執行率不到四成"},{"start":3904.25,"end":3908.25,"text":"這代表這些計畫從頭到尾都在亂編"},{"start":3908.25,"end":3909.25,"text":"那"},{"start":3910.61,"end":3912.61,"text":"你們有經費有編制"},{"start":3912.61,"end":3915.61,"text":"但是這樣子的一個執行率那麼低"},{"start":3915.61,"end":3917.61,"text":"那根據預算法第66條"},{"start":3917.61,"end":3919.61,"text":"你們隨時可以派員"},{"start":3919.61,"end":3923.61,"text":"負各機關實地調查實際的一個情況"},{"start":3923.61,"end":3925.61,"text":"那你們到底有沒有去調查"},{"start":3925.61,"end":3927.61,"text":"有沒有善盡督導考核"},{"start":3927.61,"end":3930.61,"text":"那各種這個基金"},{"start":3930.61,"end":3933.61,"text":"他會計制度實施狀況的責任"},{"start":3933.61,"end":3935.61,"text":"有沒有去督導跟考核"},{"start":3935.61,"end":3938.61,"text":"那如果有為何執行率會這麼低"},{"start":3938.61,"end":3939.61,"text":"那如果沒有"},{"start":3939.61,"end":3943.61,"text":"那就是代表說主計總處執行現狀完全脫節"},{"start":3943.61,"end":3947.61,"text":"僅靠紙本來管理上千億的特診基金預算"},{"start":3948.29,"end":3950.29,"text":"來 主席長"},{"start":3950.29,"end":3951.29,"text":"恩偉報告"},{"start":3951.29,"end":3956.29,"text":"我們大部分都有請同仁到各基金然後去做輔導"},{"start":3956.29,"end":3957.29,"text":"如果這項這些"},{"start":3957.29,"end":3960.29,"text":"那剛剛談到的那個"},{"start":3960.29,"end":3963.29,"text":"科學園區管理作為基金這個部分執行比較困難"},{"start":3963.29,"end":3965.29,"text":"大部分主要是台中"},{"start":3965.29,"end":3967.29,"text":"台中那個園區他擴建二期"},{"start":3967.29,"end":3968.29,"text":"那個主席長"},{"start":3968.29,"end":3969.29,"text":"這個時間有限"},{"start":3969.29,"end":3971.29,"text":"我想說預算不是提管機"},{"start":3971.29,"end":3974.29,"text":"所以拉算的錢不能亂花"},{"start":3974.29,"end":3977.29,"text":"我要求就是說一個月內提出改善報告好不好"},{"start":3977.29,"end":3978.29,"text":"好"},{"start":3978.29,"end":3979.29,"text":"那個"},{"start":3979.29,"end":3980.29,"text":"那個"},{"start":3980.29,"end":3981.29,"text":"那個"},{"start":3981.29,"end":3982.29,"text":"先請回"},{"start":3982.29,"end":3984.29,"text":"主席那個農業部政次長來了"},{"start":3984.29,"end":3985.29,"text":"農業部政次"},{"start":3994.94,"end":3995.94,"text":"好"},{"start":3995.64,"end":3996.64,"text":"來 由請"},{"start":3997.32,"end":3998.32,"text":"來 胡市長"},{"start":3998.32,"end":3999.32,"text":"委員好"},{"start":3999.32,"end":4000.32,"text":"我們從小"},{"start":4000.32,"end":4002.32,"text":"這個小時候就被長輩或老師"},{"start":4002.32,"end":4004.32,"text":"或者是家長告知說"},{"start":4004.32,"end":4007.32,"text":"馬鈴薯這個發芽有毒不能吃"},{"start":4007.32,"end":4009.32,"text":"還有發霉"},{"start":4009.32,"end":4011.32,"text":"還是那個都不能吃"},{"start":4011.32,"end":4012.32,"text":"有毒"},{"start":4012.32,"end":4015.32,"text":"那但是只要說一袋馬鈴薯裡面有一顆兩顆"},{"start":4015.32,"end":4017.32,"text":"我們基本上整袋就都丟掉了"},{"start":4017.32,"end":4018.32,"text":"整袋就不敢用了"},{"start":4018.32,"end":4021.32,"text":"但是現在我們政府告訴我們說"},{"start":4021.32,"end":4023.32,"text":"只要剔除有問題的馬鈴薯"},{"start":4023.32,"end":4026.32,"text":"而且加工用的馬鈴薯"},{"start":4026.32,"end":4030.32,"text":"這個農許的那個所謂的農魁鹼的一個毒素"},{"start":4030.32,"end":4032.32,"text":"農許只要放寬到200ppm"},{"start":4032.32,"end":4034.32,"text":"那其實這個農魁鹼是很毒的"},{"start":4034.32,"end":4036.32,"text":"它不只是會破壞我們的細胞"},{"start":4036.32,"end":4039.32,"text":"它甚至還有神經的神經毒素"},{"start":4039.32,"end":4042.32,"text":"所以輕則就是藕痛腹瀉"},{"start":4042.32,"end":4044.32,"text":"然後筋丸"},{"start":4044.32,"end":4045.32,"text":"但是如果嚴重的"},{"start":4045.32,"end":4047.32,"text":"它血液血壓下降"},{"start":4047.32,"end":4049.32,"text":"發燒還有神經系統的病狀"},{"start":4049.32,"end":4050.32,"text":"甚至於死亡"},{"start":4050.32,"end":4053.32,"text":"所以說你怎麼有辦法確認說"},{"start":4053.32,"end":4056.32,"text":"你發現這顆丟掉其他的沒問題"},{"start":4056.32,"end":4057.32,"text":"這第一個"},{"start":4057.32,"end":4058.32,"text":"第一個說"},{"start":4058.32,"end":4061.32,"text":"我們把假設這些都流入了加工端"},{"start":4061.32,"end":4062.32,"text":"流入加工端"},{"start":4062.32,"end":4064.32,"text":"那到時候誰敢吃誰要負責"},{"start":4064.32,"end":4066.32,"text":"你們搬進防疫也好"},{"start":4066.32,"end":4068.32,"text":"農藥部也好"},{"start":4068.32,"end":4069.32,"text":"農委部也好"},{"start":4069.32,"end":4070.32,"text":"然後搬進防疫讓它進來"},{"start":4070.32,"end":4071.32,"text":"然後到加工端"},{"start":4071.32,"end":4074.32,"text":"那這樣子你要告訴國民說沒問題"},{"start":4074.32,"end":4075.32,"text":"沒問題拿掉了"},{"start":4075.32,"end":4078.32,"text":"我們一年從美國進口五億顆"},{"start":4080.29,"end":4081.29,"text":"五億顆"},{"start":4081.29,"end":4083.29,"text":"那有多少人可以去抽檢"},{"start":4083.29,"end":4085.29,"text":"有多少人可以去檢查"},{"start":4085.29,"end":4086.29,"text":"有辦法五億顆都看過嗎"},{"start":4086.29,"end":4088.29,"text":"這我不相信"},{"start":4088.29,"end":4090.29,"text":"農委就在滴水不漏"},{"start":4090.29,"end":4092.29,"text":"還有外部說"},{"start":4092.29,"end":4095.29,"text":"文宣上面說會進行市場抽驗"},{"start":4095.29,"end":4098.29,"text":"那我們要等到它流入市場"},{"start":4098.29,"end":4099.29,"text":"流入加工端"},{"start":4099.29,"end":4102.29,"text":"變成食品之後再去抽案"},{"start":4102.29,"end":4103.29,"text":"好"},{"start":4103.29,"end":4105.29,"text":"那這樣子到時候"},{"start":4105.29,"end":4107.29,"text":"這些本來是美國業者"},{"start":4107.29,"end":4108.29,"text":"要自行處理的問題"},{"start":4108.29,"end":4110.29,"text":"現在跑到我們台灣之後"},{"start":4110.29,"end":4112.29,"text":"然後由於我們台灣政府"},{"start":4112.29,"end":4114.29,"text":"要佈置人力物力"},{"start":4114.29,"end":4115.29,"text":"然後去抽檢"},{"start":4115.29,"end":4117.29,"text":"然後我們的機能人文"},{"start":4117.29,"end":4119.29,"text":"還有我們台灣的加工業者"},{"start":4119.29,"end":4122.29,"text":"我們台灣的人民變成保護署"},{"start":4122.29,"end":4124.29,"text":"變成有這個中毒的風險"},{"start":4124.29,"end":4127.29,"text":"它本來是他們國內美國要自己處理的"},{"start":4127.29,"end":4128.29,"text":"現在變成我們台灣的保護署處理"},{"start":4128.29,"end":4130.29,"text":"所以我們台灣現在"},{"start":4130.29,"end":4132.29,"text":"我們的農藥部、衛福部"},{"start":4132.29,"end":4133.29,"text":"還有我們這些部會首長"},{"start":4133.29,"end":4134.29,"text":"好像是在替美國服務"},{"start":4134.29,"end":4136.29,"text":"不是替我們台灣人服務"},{"start":4136.29,"end":4139.29,"text":"這部份我想時間有限"},{"start":4139.29,"end":4142.29,"text":"我們台灣的食品安全"},{"start":4142.29,"end":4143.29,"text":"不可以一退再退"},{"start":4143.29,"end":4144.29,"text":"縱使要討好美國"},{"start":4144.29,"end":4146.29,"text":"也不可以一退再退"},{"start":4146.29,"end":4148.29,"text":"這部份我想時間有限"},{"start":4148.29,"end":4150.29,"text":"我就要求我們農藥部"},{"start":4150.29,"end":4152.29,"text":"這個部份跟我們衛福部"},{"start":4152.29,"end":4153.29,"text":"要從實"},{"start":4153.29,"end":4156.29,"text":"要怎麼樣能夠完全的檢測"},{"start":4156.29,"end":4158.29,"text":"這五億顆的馬鈴薯"},{"start":4158.29,"end":4160.29,"text":"要怎麼樣滴水不漏做到"},{"start":4160.29,"end":4162.29,"text":"你們可不可以提出一個說法"},{"start":4163.61,"end":4164.61,"text":"在檢疫的部份"},{"start":4164.61,"end":4166.61,"text":"農藥部是負責檢疫"},{"start":4166.61,"end":4168.61,"text":"那剛才委員說到農花田"},{"start":4168.61,"end":4170.61,"text":"農花田那是衛福部"},{"start":4170.61,"end":4171.61,"text":"因為這個是食安的問題"},{"start":4171.61,"end":4173.61,"text":"在檢疫的部份"},{"start":4173.61,"end":4174.61,"text":"我們是針對三樣"},{"start":4174.61,"end":4176.61,"text":"一個就是說你這個進來"},{"start":4176.61,"end":4178.61,"text":"你有沒有八種病蟲害"},{"start":4178.61,"end":4180.61,"text":"第二個有沒有帶土"},{"start":4180.61,"end":4181.61,"text":"第三你有沒有發芽"},{"start":4181.61,"end":4183.61,"text":"發芽有沒有超過0.5公分"},{"start":4183.61,"end":4186.61,"text":"市長我知道農藥部有農藥部的職責"},{"start":4186.61,"end":4187.61,"text":"安衛部有農藥部職責"},{"start":4187.61,"end":4189.61,"text":"我們要把自己的工作做好"},{"start":4189.61,"end":4193.61,"text":"但是我們國人擔心的是有毒物"},{"start":4193.61,"end":4195.61,"text":"擔心的是食安"},{"start":4195.61,"end":4197.61,"text":"但是為什麼只有美國"},{"start":4197.61,"end":4198.61,"text":"可以其他國家不行"},{"start":4199.64,"end":4201.64,"text":"現在只有美國"},{"start":4201.64,"end":4202.64,"text":"好不好"},{"start":4202.64,"end":4205.64,"text":"我們要做到滴水不漏"},{"start":4205.64,"end":4206.64,"text":"好的謝謝"},{"start":4207.11,"end":4208.11,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":4209.59,"end":4211.59,"text":"謝謝我們前蘇研官員委員質詢"},{"start":4211.59,"end":4213.59,"text":"接下來請吳秉瑞委員"},{"start":4226.87,"end":4229.87,"text":"主席麻煩請審計部審計長"},{"start":4229.87,"end":4230.87,"text":"請主席長"},{"start":4230.87,"end":4231.87,"text":"審計長"},{"start":4231.87,"end":4232.87,"text":"審計長"},{"start":4237.05,"end":4238.05,"text":"委員好"},{"start":4238.05,"end":4239.05,"text":"生養早"},{"start":4239.88,"end":4244.88,"text":"我們外交部有捐助一個民主基金會"},{"start":4245.39,"end":4248.39,"text":"那又捐助了張誠的內容你了解嗎"},{"start":4248.88,"end":4249.88,"text":"了解"},{"start":4249.99,"end":4255.99,"text":"他是為了要主要的目的是因為中共在全世界打壓我們我們有幫家的國家不夠"},{"start":4256.79,"end":4257.79,"text":"那所以為了要"},{"start":4258.48,"end":4260.48,"text":"推廣這個外交的工作"},{"start":4260.48,"end":4263.48,"text":"所以放在國會可以辦一些國會外交"},{"start":4263.48,"end":4265.48,"text":"所以董事長是本院的院長"},{"start":4265.48,"end":4266.48,"text":"對不對"},{"start":4266.48,"end":4267.48,"text":"對"},{"start":4267.48,"end":4271.48,"text":"那他原來捐助成立的目的是為了要推廣民主跟自由"},{"start":4272.57,"end":4273.57,"text":"這一次啊"},{"start":4273.99,"end":4277.99,"text":"台灣中國國民黨的這個黨主席"},{"start":4278.61,"end":4279.61,"text":"去中國訪問"},{"start":4280.65,"end":4282.65,"text":"他申請這個基金會補助"},{"start":4284.23,"end":4286.23,"text":"這個申請這個基金會補助"},{"start":4287.42,"end":4289.42,"text":"補助要給補助計畫啊"},{"start":4289.68,"end":4291.68,"text":"他申請說明書上面說"},{"start":4291.68,"end":4296.68,"text":"他是去中國推廣台灣民主自由的理念"},{"start":4298,"end":4302,"text":"我看全程的那個新聞媒體我有看啊"},{"start":4303.03,"end":4307.03,"text":"從頭到尾沒有講到台灣沒有講到民主沒有講到自由啊"},{"start":4307.49,"end":4309.49,"text":"那這樣我想要請教說"},{"start":4309.49,"end":4311.49,"text":"在審計部的立場"},{"start":4311.59,"end":4314.59,"text":"我們這個補助提一個書面文章"},{"start":4314.59,"end":4318.59,"text":"所作所為都跟這個這個書面的表示"},{"start":4318.59,"end":4321.59,"text":"不相干或是甚至做相反的工作"},{"start":4321.59,"end":4323.59,"text":"這樣可以申請補助嗎"},{"start":4324.09,"end":4326.09,"text":"這個基金會啊"},{"start":4326.09,"end":4327.09,"text":"他有一些規定"},{"start":4327.09,"end":4330.09,"text":"如果你要申請補助"},{"start":4330.09,"end":4331.09,"text":"就足行"},{"start":4333.01,"end":4335.01,"text":"這個部分啊"},{"start":4335.01,"end":4338.01,"text":"外交部是他的主管機關"},{"start":4338.01,"end":4339.01,"text":"外交部啊"},{"start":4339.01,"end":4341.01,"text":"在財團法人法裡面"},{"start":4341.01,"end":4343.01,"text":"外交部要負責查核"},{"start":4343.01,"end":4345.01,"text":"如果有問題"},{"start":4345.01,"end":4348.01,"text":"外交部要給他一些相當的"},{"start":4348.01,"end":4352.01,"text":"不是台灣的這個民主基金會這個主事在查核"},{"start":4352.01,"end":4354.01,"text":"他因為他申請基金"},{"start":4354.01,"end":4358.01,"text":"他申請480萬是向台灣民主基金會"},{"start":4358.01,"end":4362.01,"text":"他申請480萬是向台灣民主基金會申請"},{"start":4362.01,"end":4364.01,"text":"我現在要問你的就是說"},{"start":4364.01,"end":4366.01,"text":"他申請的申請書的內容"},{"start":4366.01,"end":4368.01,"text":"說要去中國"},{"start":4368.01,"end":4370.01,"text":"推廣台灣的民主自由"},{"start":4370.01,"end":4372.01,"text":"這個制度給中國了解"},{"start":4373.91,"end":4376.91,"text":"但是我看到了整個媒體報導各個新聞"},{"start":4376.91,"end":4378.91,"text":"完全都沒有這些內容啊"},{"start":4378.91,"end":4379.91,"text":"第一個"},{"start":4379.91,"end":4380.91,"text":"這個我的意思就是說"},{"start":4380.91,"end":4381.91,"text":"我就先問你這個問題"},{"start":4383.12,"end":4385.12,"text":"我的申請"},{"start":4385.12,"end":4387.12,"text":"如果有一個人的申請書"},{"start":4387.32,"end":4389.32,"text":"跟他所做所為完全不相關"},{"start":4389.32,"end":4391.32,"text":"甚至背道而馳"},{"start":4392.15,"end":4394.15,"text":"那這個事情"},{"start":4393.73,"end":4395.73,"text":"基金會應該要怎麼處理"},{"start":4395.73,"end":4398.73,"text":"基金會要根據他整個執行的狀況"},{"start":4398.73,"end":4401.73,"text":"來先第一段他要審核"},{"start":4401.73,"end":4403.73,"text":"他要審核完以後"},{"start":4403.73,"end":4406.73,"text":"才來進行第二段這一段"},{"start":4406.73,"end":4408.73,"text":"如果他同意了"},{"start":4408.73,"end":4410.73,"text":"或者是他不同意"},{"start":4410.73,"end":4413.73,"text":"外交部是主管機關"},{"start":4413.73,"end":4414.73,"text":"也要把關"},{"start":4414.73,"end":4418.73,"text":"第三段如果這個問題卻有那個的時候"},{"start":4418.73,"end":4420.73,"text":"我們也會督促"},{"start":4420.73,"end":4423.73,"text":"外交部你要好好的來處理"},{"start":4423.73,"end":4425.73,"text":"那這個案子啊"},{"start":4425.73,"end":4428.73,"text":"報導啊或者去了解"},{"start":4428.73,"end":4430.73,"text":"他還沒有辦理核銷"},{"start":4430.73,"end":4434.73,"text":"請教你假設他真的這樣核銷"},{"start":4434.73,"end":4435.73,"text":"假設要這樣核銷"},{"start":4435.73,"end":4437.73,"text":"因為現在準的單位"},{"start":4438.4,"end":4440.4,"text":"現在是本院的院長"},{"start":4440.4,"end":4443.4,"text":"當這個基金會的董事長啊"},{"start":4443.4,"end":4446.4,"text":"那他裡面的董監事如果就給他過了"},{"start":4447.36,"end":4449.36,"text":"假設啦我現在是假設性問題"},{"start":4449.36,"end":4452.36,"text":"那你審計部門最後能有什麼作為"},{"start":4452.36,"end":4455.36,"text":"我們這個案子如果他過了"},{"start":4455.36,"end":4458.36,"text":"那他外交部他再次主管機關"},{"start":4458.36,"end":4460.36,"text":"依照財團法人法"},{"start":4460.36,"end":4463.36,"text":"所以你一直說外交部可以跟立法院的"},{"start":4463.36,"end":4465.36,"text":"院長所主持的民主基金會"},{"start":4465.36,"end":4467.36,"text":"跟他講說你這個使用的項目"},{"start":4467.36,"end":4470.36,"text":"跟你的作為跟你事實上你的申請完全不符"},{"start":4470.36,"end":4472.36,"text":"所以外交部可以跟他講說不可以發嗎"},{"start":4472.36,"end":4474.36,"text":"這是他是主管機關"},{"start":4474.36,"end":4475.36,"text":"這是他的前途"},{"start":4475.36,"end":4477.36,"text":"你為什麼不用公文告訴立法院"},{"start":4478.62,"end":4481.62,"text":"院長所主導的民主基金會"},{"start":4481.62,"end":4483.62,"text":"不可以補助是這樣的意思嗎"},{"start":4483.62,"end":4486.62,"text":"這個是要看他的事實"},{"start":4486.62,"end":4488.62,"text":"依照他的事實來認定"},{"start":4488.62,"end":4491.62,"text":"他的事實經過外交部認定"},{"start":4491.62,"end":4495.62,"text":"有一些瑕疵或者是有一些"},{"start":4495.62,"end":4498.62,"text":"剛剛講的一些假設的問題"},{"start":4498.62,"end":4502.62,"text":"那些外交部要主管機關"},{"start":4502.62,"end":4505.62,"text":"要基於他主管機關的監督立場"},{"start":4505.62,"end":4508.62,"text":"那外交部我再問一個假設性的問題"},{"start":4508.62,"end":4511.62,"text":"外交部如果已經正式發文給民主基金會"},{"start":4511.62,"end":4512.62,"text":"說這不符合目的"},{"start":4513.48,"end":4515.48,"text":"結果民主基金會是一定要補助"},{"start":4515.48,"end":4516.48,"text":"那會怎麼樣"},{"start":4516.48,"end":4518.48,"text":"你們審計部能有什麼作為"},{"start":4518.48,"end":4521.48,"text":"我們會依據外交部的一些"},{"start":4521.48,"end":4524.48,"text":"發文後查核的結果"},{"start":4524.48,"end":4527.48,"text":"來處理這些相關的帳戶問題"},{"start":4528.85,"end":4530.85,"text":"相關帳戶問題什麼問題"},{"start":4530.85,"end":4532.85,"text":"他就是給他假設"},{"start":4532.85,"end":4534.85,"text":"退一萬不講真的給他的480萬"},{"start":4534.85,"end":4537.85,"text":"然後外交部也根據你現在講的原則"},{"start":4537.85,"end":4540.85,"text":"跟他審核說因為不符合這個目的"},{"start":4540.85,"end":4542.85,"text":"那也不符合你的作為"},{"start":4542.85,"end":4544.85,"text":"所以不應該給予補助"},{"start":4544.85,"end":4547.85,"text":"可是民主基金會仍然要給他補助的時候"},{"start":4547.85,"end":4550.85,"text":"你們審計部最後能做什麼處理"},{"start":4550.85,"end":4554.85,"text":"我們會進行要外交部"},{"start":4554.85,"end":4557.85,"text":"再督促外交部來做處理"},{"start":4557.85,"end":4559.85,"text":"如果外交部未做適當的處理"},{"start":4559.85,"end":4561.85,"text":"我們會給外交部相關的"},{"start":4561.85,"end":4565.85,"text":"那外交部能做什麼樣適當的處理"},{"start":4565.85,"end":4567.85,"text":"就是他主管機關"},{"start":4567.85,"end":4569.85,"text":"主管機關那你是民主基金會"},{"start":4569.85,"end":4571.85,"text":"他就覺得他比你大"},{"start":4571.85,"end":4573.85,"text":"我們在你打電話"},{"start":4573.85,"end":4575.85,"text":"多少人講說我就是比你大"},{"start":4575.85,"end":4577.85,"text":"要給你要怎麼樣"},{"start":4578.36,"end":4580.36,"text":"做壞事的人不得到制裁"},{"start":4580.36,"end":4582.36,"text":"你要去制裁外交部"},{"start":4582.36,"end":4584.36,"text":"我是在假設"},{"start":4584.36,"end":4586.36,"text":"外交部已經正式跟你回答說"},{"start":4586.36,"end":4588.36,"text":"這不符合規定你不可以補助"},{"start":4588.36,"end":4591.36,"text":"那台灣民主基金會仍然要補助"},{"start":4591.36,"end":4594.36,"text":"國家有國家的體制要依照國家的體制"},{"start":4594.36,"end":4596.36,"text":"那我現在就是要問你國家的體制"},{"start":4596.36,"end":4599.36,"text":"那審計部是不是要送監察院"},{"start":4599.36,"end":4601.36,"text":"還是要移送檢調單位處理"},{"start":4601.36,"end":4603.36,"text":"我是要問你這個"},{"start":4603.36,"end":4605.36,"text":"我要督促外交部"},{"start":4605.36,"end":4608.36,"text":"外交部就記下指責跟他講說這不合法了"},{"start":4608.36,"end":4610.36,"text":"當然他外交部有不合法"},{"start":4610.36,"end":4612.36,"text":"但是這個案子堅持在那裡"},{"start":4612.36,"end":4615.36,"text":"我們審計部當然會去了解"},{"start":4615.36,"end":4619.36,"text":"了解完了以後如果事實就如假設一樣"},{"start":4619.36,"end":4622.36,"text":"那當然是說有的是我們就會送監察院"},{"start":4622.36,"end":4624.36,"text":"我們就會"},{"start":4624.36,"end":4628.36,"text":"因為這個如果有不法的"},{"start":4628.36,"end":4629.36,"text":"我們送檢調"},{"start":4629.36,"end":4631.36,"text":"這個是當然是我們審計部的主責"},{"start":4631.36,"end":4633.36,"text":"中華民國的立法院"},{"start":4633.36,"end":4635.36,"text":"現在的加起來的多數黨"},{"start":4635.36,"end":4637.36,"text":"立法院的多數黨簡直就是太上皇了"},{"start":4638.57,"end":4640.57,"text":"你送監察院也沒用了"},{"start":4640.57,"end":4642.57,"text":"他監察院預算都不給你過"},{"start":4642.57,"end":4644.57,"text":"監察院代理院長跟我講說"},{"start":4644.57,"end":4646.57,"text":"他們很可憐連電梯都沒辦法開"},{"start":4647.4,"end":4649.4,"text":"因為電梯都被刪光了"},{"start":4650.27,"end":4652.27,"text":"親口跟我講"},{"start":4652.31,"end":4654.31,"text":"所以"},{"start":4653.34,"end":4655.34,"text":"現在就是無法無天了"},{"start":4655.34,"end":4657.34,"text":"我現在跟你講我們大家講清楚"},{"start":4657.91,"end":4659.91,"text":"外交部有他的職權他應該去查核"},{"start":4659.91,"end":4661.91,"text":"那外交部如果已經據實已告"},{"start":4661.91,"end":4663.91,"text":"跟他講說查核的規矩"},{"start":4664.7,"end":4668.7,"text":"查核的結果不符合規定不應該於補助"},{"start":4669.34,"end":4671.34,"text":"這時候有兩種結果"},{"start":4671.34,"end":4673.34,"text":"有一種就是民主基金會從善如流"},{"start":4673.34,"end":4675.34,"text":"那我就不補助"},{"start":4675.34,"end":4677.34,"text":"另外一種就是民主基金會說補我仍然在補助"},{"start":4678.31,"end":4680.31,"text":"因為我的董監事我人多"},{"start":4681.64,"end":4683.64,"text":"所以我的董監事仍然在補助"},{"start":4683.64,"end":4685.64,"text":"那補助了之後你給他送監察院"},{"start":4685.64,"end":4687.64,"text":"沒關係監察院等於是被他廢掉"},{"start":4690.11,"end":4694.11,"text":"所以我來講我們很屁啦"},{"start":4694.11,"end":4696.11,"text":"台灣的國台現在就是比你大啦"},{"start":4697.22,"end":4699.22,"text":"就是有人說我就是比你大"},{"start":4699.22,"end":4701.22,"text":"國家的體制什麼東西都不重要"},{"start":4701.5,"end":4706.5,"text":"好我是要讓你了解說你有可能會面對將來有可能會面對這樣的困境"},{"start":4706.5,"end":4708.5,"text":"請你回座啦"},{"start":4708.5,"end":4712.5,"text":"我不是問你回答我只是說我問個問題該怎麼處理"},{"start":4712.5,"end":4713.5,"text":"你要想清楚"},{"start":4713.5,"end":4714.5,"text":"好"},{"start":4714.5,"end":4715.5,"text":"請回座"},{"start":4716.79,"end":4718.79,"text":"來我們請這個"},{"start":4718.55,"end":4720.55,"text":"關木屬啊"},{"start":4720.62,"end":4722.62,"text":"現在一關"},{"start":4725.03,"end":4727.03,"text":"請"},{"start":4726.31,"end":4728.31,"text":"彭署長"},{"start":4730.36,"end":4734.36,"text":"現在這個發芽馬鈴薯這個查核標準有沒有變動"},{"start":4736,"end":4739,"text":"報告委員是指簡易的部分"},{"start":4739,"end":4742,"text":"簡易的部分是農委會房間署"},{"start":4742,"end":4744,"text":"不是啊你們不是要配合嗎"},{"start":4744,"end":4749,"text":"那不然就請農委會跟這樣衛福部都一起上來大家一起回答"},{"start":4750.86,"end":4752.86,"text":"制度的改變在哪裡"},{"start":4752.86,"end":4753.86,"text":"請農政事"},{"start":4754.56,"end":4755.56,"text":"莊市長"},{"start":4760.06,"end":4766.06,"text":"報告委員在我們這一次改變的部分在簡易的部分啊我們是這樣子本來如果"},{"start":4767.3,"end":4769.3,"text":"因為"},{"start":4768.34,"end":4773.34,"text":"馬鈴薯進口有三種一種是種薯進來做做種"},{"start":4773.34,"end":4777.34,"text":"那第二個就是先食用的第三個就是用加工用的"},{"start":4777.34,"end":4786.34,"text":"那過去啊這個先食跟加工只要驗到有發芽超過0.5公分或者是有其他"},{"start":4786.34,"end":4791.34,"text":"這個龍蝴蟹超過200ppm這個衛福部這邊查到這個的話一律退"},{"start":4791.34,"end":4795.34,"text":"那目前先食的部分還是維持本來的做法"},{"start":4795.34,"end":4800.34,"text":"那加工的部分啊加工的部分他就如果我們發現在邊境"},{"start":4801.4,"end":4805.4,"text":"衛福部發現200ppm這個馬上就必須要退"},{"start":4805.4,"end":4810.4,"text":"那如果他的這個有帶土有八種病蟲害"},{"start":4810.4,"end":4816.4,"text":"那另外就是他這個他的發芽超過了0.5公分以上的話"},{"start":4816.4,"end":4822.4,"text":"我們會要求啊這個退運或者是銷毀不能帶土也不能有病蟲害"},{"start":4822.4,"end":4827.4,"text":"那這一次的改變就是以前整個都退運這一次是不是還要進一步檢驗"},{"start":4827.4,"end":4828.4,"text":"加工的部分"},{"start":4828.4,"end":4829.4,"text":"加工的部分"},{"start":4829.4,"end":4830.4,"text":"對"},{"start":4830.4,"end":4833.4,"text":"加工的部分標準是不是跟日本的標準相同"},{"start":4833.4,"end":4834.4,"text":"比日本還嚴"},{"start":4834.4,"end":4837.4,"text":"因為日本只有驗兩種病蟲害"},{"start":4837.4,"end":4840.4,"text":"不是啦我是在講那個發芽的部分"},{"start":4840.4,"end":4843.4,"text":"發芽的部分日本沒有管他不管發芽的部分"},{"start":4843.4,"end":4846.4,"text":"他不管日本發芽的進口發芽的他也加工"},{"start":4847,"end":4850,"text":"因為他們只要美國提出那請衛福部回答"},{"start":4850,"end":4858,"text":"那剛剛講到那個龍蝴蜆在發芽的部分產生的這些的有可能產生的這些的有毒物質要怎麼處理"},{"start":4858,"end":4864,"text":"這個部分就是其實那個馬來西亞有沒有發芽跟龍蝴蜆龍蝴蜆不一定相關啦"},{"start":4864,"end":4869,"text":"所以我們現在就是說我們其實整個檢驗的標準整個食安的標準"},{"start":4869,"end":4871,"text":"這個全世界一直都沒有改變"},{"start":4871,"end":4876,"text":"那這個龍蝴蜆200ppm從107年就定到現在"},{"start":4876,"end":4878,"text":"全世界有沒有一致的標準"},{"start":4878,"end":4882,"text":"目前大概加拿大這邊也有採用這樣的"},{"start":4882,"end":4883,"text":"只有加拿大嗎"},{"start":4883,"end":4885,"text":"還有對加拿大"},{"start":4885,"end":4886,"text":"日本有沒有"},{"start":4886,"end":4888,"text":"日本不驗啦"},{"start":4888,"end":4890,"text":"因為日本生產很多馬鈴薯"},{"start":4890,"end":4892,"text":"所以日本本身也在處理馬鈴薯"},{"start":4892,"end":4896,"text":"這個東西國人關心就是有人會利用這個東西"},{"start":4896,"end":4901,"text":"Tenny要求在要求然後再製造台灣跟美國的緊張"},{"start":4901,"end":4904,"text":"然後之後再拿這個東西打說政府無能"},{"start":4904,"end":4906,"text":"沒有辦法保護人民的食品安全"},{"start":4906,"end":4908,"text":"他們的目的是要講這個"},{"start":4908,"end":4910,"text":"這是要做政治操作"},{"start":4910,"end":4912,"text":"所以請你們要小心回答"},{"start":4912,"end":4916,"text":"請你們一定要把這件事情向國人清楚的澄清好不好"},{"start":4916,"end":4917,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":4917,"end":4918,"text":"謝謝吳秉銳委員質詢"},{"start":4918,"end":4920,"text":"接下來我們請第三位林德福委員"},{"start":4933.47,"end":4935.47,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":4936.08,"end":4938.08,"text":"是不是請陳審記長"},{"start":4939.54,"end":4940.54,"text":"陳審記長"},{"start":4940.98,"end":4941.98,"text":"還有"},{"start":4943.03,"end":4944.03,"text":"這個"},{"start":4945.95,"end":4947.95,"text":"這個陳審部的阮市長"},{"start":4947.95,"end":4949.95,"text":"阮市長請阮市長"},{"start":4949.95,"end":4950.95,"text":"還有"},{"start":4951.17,"end":4954.17,"text":"農業部的這個胡市長"},{"start":4955.44,"end":4957.44,"text":"還有這個衛福部的"},{"start":4957.44,"end":4959.44,"text":"張市長"},{"start":4959.64,"end":4963.64,"text":"還有食藥署的這個蔡副署長"},{"start":4964.82,"end":4965.82,"text":"蔡副署長"},{"start":4967.55,"end":4968.55,"text":"委員好"},{"start":4969.02,"end":4970.02,"text":"那個"},{"start":4971.05,"end":4972.05,"text":"陳審記長你好"},{"start":4972.05,"end":4975.05,"text":"因為我國發生進口辣椒粉"},{"start":4975.05,"end":4980.05,"text":"含工業用的蘇丹紅樹等食安的事件"},{"start":4980.05,"end":4981.05,"text":"危害國人的健康"},{"start":4981.05,"end":4983.05,"text":"引發民眾的恐慌"},{"start":4983.05,"end":4987.05,"text":"那審計部有提出這個專案審計報告"},{"start":4987.05,"end":4989.05,"text":"同樣的道理"},{"start":4989.05,"end":4995.05,"text":"本席也希望審計部針對馬寧署食品安全的議題"},{"start":4995.05,"end":4997.05,"text":"進行一個專案調查"},{"start":4997.05,"end":5000.05,"text":"從農業部衛福部馬寧署加工廠"},{"start":5000.05,"end":5003.05,"text":"所在地地方的衛生渠道"},{"start":5003.05,"end":5006.05,"text":"這個到底投入多少的預算"},{"start":5006.05,"end":5010.05,"text":"設備確保民眾食品的安全"},{"start":5010.05,"end":5013.05,"text":"尤其是實驗室的檢驗能量是否足夠"},{"start":5013.96,"end":5016.96,"text":"本席是希望說審計部會後"},{"start":5016.96,"end":5020.96,"text":"能夠給我們所有立委一份書面的報告"},{"start":5020.96,"end":5021.96,"text":"可以"},{"start":5021.96,"end":5022.96,"text":"可以喔"},{"start":5022.96,"end":5023.96,"text":"這個很重要"},{"start":5023.96,"end":5024.96,"text":"好"},{"start":5024.96,"end":5027.96,"text":"按照過去這個衛教宣導"},{"start":5027.96,"end":5031.96,"text":"都在告訴民眾誤食用花芽的馬寧署"},{"start":5031.96,"end":5033.96,"text":"然而近期馬寧署的爭議"},{"start":5033.96,"end":5038.96,"text":"許多網紅分享不正確的訊息"},{"start":5038.96,"end":5039.96,"text":"告訴民眾"},{"start":5039.96,"end":5042.96,"text":"割掉花芽部分的還是可以食用"},{"start":5042.96,"end":5047.96,"text":"那現任食藥署江志剛署長"},{"start":5047.96,"end":5051.96,"text":"在2018年在台大當醫師的時候"},{"start":5051.96,"end":5053.96,"text":"寫了一篇文章"},{"start":5053.96,"end":5057.96,"text":"看見綠頭的薯條怎麼辦"},{"start":5057.96,"end":5059.96,"text":"內容提到花芽的馬寧署"},{"start":5059.96,"end":5064.96,"text":"龍葵鹼含量則在1000ppm"},{"start":5064.96,"end":5066.96,"text":"其中花芽的馬寧署"},{"start":5068.47,"end":5069.47,"text":"這個"},{"start":5070.8,"end":5074.8,"text":"龍葵鹼含量更高達2000ppm可見"},{"start":5074.8,"end":5078.8,"text":"專家都認為花芽馬寧署食安風險非常的高"},{"start":5078.8,"end":5082.8,"text":"那我請問衛福部遇到花芽馬寧署"},{"start":5082.8,"end":5084.8,"text":"建議民眾要如何處理"},{"start":5084.8,"end":5085.8,"text":"衛福部"},{"start":5085.8,"end":5089.8,"text":"有關花芽馬寧署的一定是整顆丟棄不能使用"},{"start":5089.8,"end":5090.8,"text":"要丟棄嘛"},{"start":5090.8,"end":5091.8,"text":"對對對"},{"start":5091.8,"end":5094.8,"text":"那媒體報導說林口長庚醫院"},{"start":5094.8,"end":5098.8,"text":"臨床毒物中心的主任閻中海指出"},{"start":5098.8,"end":5102.8,"text":"即使僅有少數馬寧署出現花芽的情形"},{"start":5102.8,"end":5104.8,"text":"其所含的龍葵鹼"},{"start":5104.8,"end":5109.8,"text":"能可能污染同批其他正常的馬寧署"},{"start":5109.8,"end":5114.8,"text":"呼籲主管機關應要加強龍葵鹼的抽驗"},{"start":5114.8,"end":5116.8,"text":"不管今天進口美國馬寧署"},{"start":5116.8,"end":5119.8,"text":"是加工用的還是實用的"},{"start":5119.8,"end":5122.8,"text":"最後都是到消費者的市場"},{"start":5122.8,"end":5124.8,"text":"變成民眾吃下肚"},{"start":5124.8,"end":5125.8,"text":"你不管是加工也好"},{"start":5125.8,"end":5126.8,"text":"其他進口也好"},{"start":5126.8,"end":5127.8,"text":"幾乎都是下肚"},{"start":5127.8,"end":5130.8,"text":"那為何使用馬寧署輸入檢疫條件"},{"start":5130.8,"end":5133.8,"text":"馬寧署花芽必須整批退運"},{"start":5133.8,"end":5135.8,"text":"而加工的馬寧署"},{"start":5135.8,"end":5138.8,"text":"花芽後卻放寬整批馬寧署"},{"start":5138.8,"end":5141.8,"text":"有條件的進入加工廠處理"},{"start":5141.8,"end":5142.8,"text":"你的看法呢"},{"start":5142.8,"end":5143.8,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":5143.8,"end":5145.8,"text":"現在的做法是這樣"},{"start":5145.8,"end":5152.8,"text":"如果是農業部在邊境發現有發芽的馬寧署"},{"start":5152.8,"end":5155.8,"text":"那他們會把這些發芽馬寧署剔掉"},{"start":5155.8,"end":5157.8,"text":"那我們會針對這一批馬寧署"},{"start":5157.8,"end":5161.8,"text":"會再去做抽驗有關龍葵檢"},{"start":5161.8,"end":5163.8,"text":"那當然如果驗出超過200ppm"},{"start":5163.8,"end":5165.8,"text":"就會整批退運"},{"start":5165.8,"end":5167.8,"text":"本席是希望農業部跟衛福部"},{"start":5167.8,"end":5171.8,"text":"要以民眾食品安全作為優先"},{"start":5171.8,"end":5175.8,"text":"本席也希望說加工馬寧署花芽"},{"start":5175.8,"end":5176.8,"text":"應該整批退運"},{"start":5176.8,"end":5178.8,"text":"你不能留存"},{"start":5178.8,"end":5181.8,"text":"因為留存以後都會到消費者身上"},{"start":5181.8,"end":5184.8,"text":"讓他們來承擔食安的風險"},{"start":5184.8,"end":5186.8,"text":"你認不認同"},{"start":5186.8,"end":5189.8,"text":"這個有關發芽可能是農業部"},{"start":5189.8,"end":5191.8,"text":"對不對你們要說清楚講明白"},{"start":5191.8,"end":5195.8,"text":"發芽不代表就有龍葵檢"},{"start":5195.8,"end":5197.8,"text":"因為那個必須要再經過"},{"start":5199.18,"end":5201.18,"text":"花芽不代表就有龍葵檢"},{"start":5201.18,"end":5204.18,"text":"因為花芽在0.5公分以內的話"},{"start":5204.18,"end":5206.18,"text":"那個是都會被承認的"},{"start":5206.18,"end":5209.18,"text":"日本人根本就不檢查有沒有花芽"},{"start":5209.18,"end":5210.18,"text":"你不要講日本"},{"start":5210.18,"end":5214.18,"text":"我們今天是針對我們食安的風險"},{"start":5214.18,"end":5216.18,"text":"因為你為什麼整批進口"},{"start":5216.18,"end":5220.18,"text":"加工就可以來做處理"},{"start":5220.18,"end":5223.18,"text":"不加工的話你就是只要有花學"},{"start":5223.18,"end":5225.18,"text":"他確實有龍葵檢有花芽"},{"start":5225.18,"end":5227.18,"text":"就要整批退"},{"start":5227.18,"end":5229.18,"text":"這個裡面就是考量到"},{"start":5229.18,"end":5231.18,"text":"為什麼食安是多重要"},{"start":5232.14,"end":5237.14,"text":"對不對不要把人民的健康來開玩笑"},{"start":5237.14,"end":5239.14,"text":"沒有錯我也是國民啊"},{"start":5239.14,"end":5241.14,"text":"我的親友都是國民"},{"start":5241.14,"end":5242.14,"text":"我們非常重視這一塊"},{"start":5242.84,"end":5245.84,"text":"那在農業部的部分我們是防疫"},{"start":5245.84,"end":5246.84,"text":"主要是防疫"},{"start":5246.84,"end":5248.84,"text":"就怕這些流入的馬鈴薯"},{"start":5248.84,"end":5250.84,"text":"流到田裡面去種"},{"start":5250.84,"end":5252.84,"text":"種的時候把國外的病人菌帶進來"},{"start":5252.84,"end":5253.84,"text":"這個是我們所擔心的"},{"start":5253.84,"end":5255.84,"text":"至於食品安全的話"},{"start":5255.84,"end":5257.84,"text":"這個要麻煩衛福部來做評"},{"start":5257.84,"end":5259.84,"text":"本席先跟財政部跟農業部確認"},{"start":5259.84,"end":5262.84,"text":"美國加工用的馬鈴薯"},{"start":5262.84,"end":5264.84,"text":"在海關的貨品號"},{"start":5265.16,"end":5267.16,"text":"列的號碼是不是"},{"start":5267.16,"end":5270.16,"text":"07019000"},{"start":5270.16,"end":5272.16,"text":"然後之003"},{"start":5272.16,"end":5273.16,"text":"因為昨天我的助理啊"},{"start":5273.16,"end":5277.16,"text":"有特別打電話去聯繫農業部的防檢署確認"},{"start":5277.16,"end":5280.16,"text":"而農業部在4月15日"},{"start":5280.16,"end":5283.16,"text":"衛防委員會的書面報告裡面提到"},{"start":5283.16,"end":5285.16,"text":"新檢疫條件2月6日"},{"start":5285.16,"end":5287.16,"text":"實施到現在為止"},{"start":5287.16,"end":5291.16,"text":"尚有美國加工用的馬鈴薯輸入"},{"start":5291.16,"end":5294.16,"text":"但是本席請助理查了一下"},{"start":5294.16,"end":5297.16,"text":"上述貨品號列的馬鈴薯"},{"start":5297.16,"end":5300.16,"text":"今年3月從美國進口的馬鈴薯"},{"start":5300.16,"end":5303.16,"text":"數量有137公噸"},{"start":5303.16,"end":5305.16,"text":"價值是221萬新台幣"},{"start":5305.16,"end":5307.16,"text":"外界沒有辦法分辨"},{"start":5307.16,"end":5309.16,"text":"哪些是加工用的馬鈴薯"},{"start":5309.16,"end":5311.16,"text":"哪些是實用的馬鈴薯"},{"start":5311.16,"end":5313.16,"text":"那我請問農業部跟財政部"},{"start":5313.16,"end":5316.16,"text":"美國加工用與實用的馬鈴薯"},{"start":5316.16,"end":5318.16,"text":"都在一個貨號"},{"start":5318.16,"end":5320.16,"text":"如何來避免外界的誤判"},{"start":5320.16,"end":5321.16,"text":"是 報告委員"},{"start":5321.16,"end":5323.16,"text":"到目前為止"},{"start":5323.16,"end":5325.16,"text":"美國進來全部都是先實用的"},{"start":5325.16,"end":5327.16,"text":"都是生產的 沒有加工的"},{"start":5327.16,"end":5330.16,"text":"那第二個 我們發現貨號是相同"},{"start":5330.16,"end":5332.16,"text":"所以已經跟財政部提出申請"},{"start":5332.16,"end":5335.16,"text":"相信在最近的時間以內"},{"start":5335.16,"end":5336.16,"text":"財政部就會給我們分開"},{"start":5336.16,"end":5340.16,"text":"那因為美國的加工用的馬鈴薯"},{"start":5340.16,"end":5342.16,"text":"7月之後才會進口"},{"start":5342.16,"end":5345.16,"text":"所以這一段期間我們應該財政部"},{"start":5345.16,"end":5347.16,"text":"因為人民很關心這個事情"},{"start":5347.16,"end":5348.16,"text":"對 都很關心"},{"start":5348.16,"end":5349.16,"text":"因為根據媒體報導"},{"start":5349.16,"end":5351.16,"text":"衛福部對進口馬鈴薯"},{"start":5351.16,"end":5356.16,"text":"目前採一般的抽批查檢"},{"start":5356.16,"end":5360.16,"text":"那抽驗率2%到10%而已"},{"start":5360.16,"end":5361.16,"text":"那請"},{"start":5361.86,"end":5363.86,"text":"這個衛福部分別說明"},{"start":5363.86,"end":5365.86,"text":"美國實用與加工用的馬鈴薯"},{"start":5365.86,"end":5370.86,"text":"依規定抽檢龍蝴蜆含量超過200ppm時"},{"start":5370.86,"end":5371.86,"text":"會如何處置"},{"start":5371.86,"end":5373.86,"text":"不管是火 實用或加工"},{"start":5373.86,"end":5376.86,"text":"都是整批 退運或銷毀嗎"},{"start":5376.86,"end":5377.86,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":5377.86,"end":5379.86,"text":"就是如果我們一旦驗到"},{"start":5379.86,"end":5381.86,"text":"這個龍蝴蜆超過200ppm"},{"start":5381.86,"end":5382.86,"text":"我們整批退運"},{"start":5382.86,"end":5385.86,"text":"也就是說它一批裡面可能有三個貨櫃"},{"start":5385.86,"end":5387.86,"text":"這三個貨櫃就是退運或銷毀"},{"start":5387.86,"end":5389.86,"text":"一定不能進入到我們的市場"},{"start":5390.75,"end":5393.75,"text":"因為人民非常重視"},{"start":5393.75,"end":5395.75,"text":"就是這個食安的問題"},{"start":5396.75,"end":5398.75,"text":"農業部房檢署邊境"},{"start":5398.75,"end":5400.75,"text":"築批查檢"},{"start":5400.75,"end":5402.75,"text":"查驗馬鈴薯"},{"start":5402.75,"end":5404.75,"text":"打開貨櫃發現馬鈴薯發芽"},{"start":5404.75,"end":5407.75,"text":"一線型的規定可封存"},{"start":5407.75,"end":5409.75,"text":"然後印往加工場"},{"start":5409.75,"end":5413.75,"text":"若該批馬鈴薯食藥署沒有抽到查驗"},{"start":5415.15,"end":5418.15,"text":"農業部市委會通知食藥署去補查驗"},{"start":5418.15,"end":5420.15,"text":"該批馬鈴薯的龍蝴蜆"},{"start":5420.15,"end":5422.15,"text":"到底有沒有鈔標"},{"start":5422.15,"end":5423.15,"text":"會不會"},{"start":5424.14,"end":5426.14,"text":"因為若龍蝴蜆鈔標"},{"start":5426.14,"end":5429.14,"text":"那請問各主管機關你們要如何處理"},{"start":5431.55,"end":5433.55,"text":"就是我們會驗龍蝴蜆"},{"start":5433.55,"end":5435.55,"text":"重金屬跟農藥殘留"},{"start":5435.55,"end":5437.55,"text":"這三項只要鈔標"},{"start":5437.55,"end":5439.55,"text":"就一定退運或銷毀"},{"start":5439.55,"end":5441.55,"text":"我是希望說這個要嚴謹"},{"start":5441.55,"end":5443.55,"text":"農業房檢署"},{"start":5443.55,"end":5447.55,"text":"打開貨櫃沒有發現馬鈴薯發芽"},{"start":5447.55,"end":5450.55,"text":"但食藥署抽到要檢驗龍蝴蜆"},{"start":5450.55,"end":5454.55,"text":"請問該批馬鈴薯是否需等化驗後"},{"start":5454.55,"end":5456.55,"text":"出爐才能將整批貨櫃"},{"start":5456.55,"end":5458.55,"text":"送往加工場加工"},{"start":5458.55,"end":5459.55,"text":"對"},{"start":5459.55,"end":5461.55,"text":"對一定是"},{"start":5461.55,"end":5464.55,"text":"是一定要等他的確沒有超過200層驗"},{"start":5464.55,"end":5467.55,"text":"現在的老百姓他們非常非常關心"},{"start":5467.55,"end":5469.55,"text":"有關於馬鈴薯的龍蝴蜆"},{"start":5469.55,"end":5474.55,"text":"因為這個跟很多民眾在吃馬鈴薯以後"},{"start":5474.55,"end":5477.55,"text":"到底會不會產生食安的問題"},{"start":5477.55,"end":5480.55,"text":"我認為這個是非常非常重要"},{"start":5480.55,"end":5484.55,"text":"我希望各行政官員本著良心"},{"start":5484.55,"end":5487.55,"text":"自己吃才能讓一般的老百姓吃"},{"start":5487.55,"end":5490.55,"text":"你不要說因為我檢驗的時候"},{"start":5490.55,"end":5493.55,"text":"然後這個上面規定怎麼樣"},{"start":5493.55,"end":5495.55,"text":"我要是去放寬"},{"start":5495.55,"end":5497.55,"text":"然後到最後出問題"},{"start":5497.55,"end":5501.55,"text":"那時候亡羊補牢都來不及了"},{"start":5501.55,"end":5504.55,"text":"我們要事前去杜絕緩緩"},{"start":5504.55,"end":5506.55,"text":"那這個最後一個議題"},{"start":5506.55,"end":5509.55,"text":"關於中央政府永續發展政府的債券"},{"start":5509.55,"end":5511.55,"text":"目前看來財政部"},{"start":5511.55,"end":5515.55,"text":"115年115第一期的公債"},{"start":5515.55,"end":5518.55,"text":"金門大學這個校舍興建外"},{"start":5518.55,"end":5521.55,"text":"發行金額為新台幣4億元"},{"start":5521.55,"end":5523.55,"text":"年期為30年"},{"start":5523.55,"end":5527.55,"text":"那我請問財政部115年是否還有其他計畫"},{"start":5527.55,"end":5530.55,"text":"會發行永續發展的債券"},{"start":5530.55,"end":5533.55,"text":"各位報告我們除了金門大學的"},{"start":5533.55,"end":5536.55,"text":"這個永續建的發行之外"},{"start":5536.55,"end":5540.55,"text":"另外我們就是高雄的航空站"},{"start":5540.55,"end":5542.55,"text":"那金額是790億"},{"start":5542.55,"end":5546.55,"text":"那我們現在在輔導他能夠發行永續債"},{"start":5546.55,"end":5550.55,"text":"那這部分我們會積極來推動"},{"start":5550.55,"end":5552.55,"text":"目前除了中央之外"},{"start":5552.55,"end":5557.55,"text":"我們也希望地方政府能夠加入來發行"},{"start":5557.55,"end":5559.55,"text":"所以現在目前中央跟地方"},{"start":5559.55,"end":5562.55,"text":"已經發行了大概345億"},{"start":5562.55,"end":5566.55,"text":"所以未來我們會跟金管會還有貴買中心"},{"start":5566.55,"end":5568.55,"text":"我們合作尋找相關的案源"},{"start":5568.55,"end":5570.55,"text":"來發行相關的永續債"},{"start":5570.55,"end":5572.55,"text":"好 這樣我了解"},{"start":5572.55,"end":5574.55,"text":"其實剛剛前一位委員所講的"},{"start":5574.55,"end":5576.55,"text":"有一些我都聽不下去"},{"start":5577.82,"end":5579.82,"text":"大家都很清楚 陳紀長"},{"start":5579.82,"end":5581.82,"text":"那個卒局長你上來我請教你"},{"start":5583.81,"end":5585.81,"text":"你那個電費說電梯沒有電"},{"start":5585.81,"end":5587.81,"text":"沒有電費可以支應"},{"start":5589.32,"end":5590.32,"text":"可能嗎"},{"start":5590.32,"end":5592.32,"text":"那是金藏門啊"},{"start":5592.32,"end":5594.32,"text":"你就是一算沒有過一樣可以發揮啊"},{"start":5595.27,"end":5597.27,"text":"那個都是在騙老百姓"},{"start":5597.84,"end":5599.84,"text":"不是他如果沒有編預算就不能"},{"start":5599.84,"end":5600.84,"text":"沒有編預算"},{"start":5600.84,"end":5603.84,"text":"你 欸拜託電費沒有編預算"},{"start":5603.84,"end":5605.84,"text":"你每年都編的沒有編預算"},{"start":5605.84,"end":5607.84,"text":"金藏門咧"},{"start":5607.84,"end":5609.84,"text":"那不是資本門咧"},{"start":5610.93,"end":5612.93,"text":"對不對 你主計長你做了那麼久"},{"start":5612.93,"end":5614.93,"text":"難道連這一點你都不懂嗎"},{"start":5614.93,"end":5616.93,"text":"對不對"},{"start":5617.82,"end":5620.82,"text":"因為他業務全部被減了97%啦"},{"start":5620.82,"end":5622.82,"text":"97啦 去年的時候"},{"start":5622.82,"end":5624.82,"text":"金藏門都可以用"},{"start":5624.82,"end":5626.82,"text":"去年用的今年都可以用"},{"start":5626.82,"end":5628.82,"text":"對不對 你就是一算沒有過也可以用"},{"start":5628.82,"end":5630.82,"text":"大家心知肚明"},{"start":5630.82,"end":5632.82,"text":"對不對 不要騙老百姓"},{"start":5634.29,"end":5636.29,"text":"金藏門啊 你的水電"},{"start":5636.29,"end":5638.29,"text":"該用的"},{"start":5638.29,"end":5640.29,"text":"本來金藏門就可以用"},{"start":5640.29,"end":5642.29,"text":"資本門我不敢講"},{"start":5642.29,"end":5644.29,"text":"因為一般金藏門主要是人事費和業務費為大宗啦"},{"start":5644.29,"end":5646.29,"text":"那再來"},{"start":5646.29,"end":5648.29,"text":"啊 電費沒有嗎"},{"start":5647.62,"end":5649.62,"text":"電費沒有嗎"},{"start":5649.62,"end":5651.62,"text":"所以他可以留用的部分呢"},{"start":5651.62,"end":5653.62,"text":"你大宗你這個電費沒有嗎"},{"start":5653.62,"end":5655.62,"text":"你大宗的被減掉很多債"},{"start":5655.62,"end":5657.62,"text":"不要去扭曲啦"},{"start":5657.62,"end":5659.62,"text":"電費每年固定編的"},{"start":5659.62,"end":5661.62,"text":"你喔 身為主計長"},{"start":5661.62,"end":5663.62,"text":"你一定要講實話"},{"start":5663.62,"end":5665.62,"text":"讓老百姓清楚"},{"start":5665.62,"end":5667.62,"text":"我們是針對問題"},{"start":5667.62,"end":5669.62,"text":"不要去扭曲"},{"start":5669.62,"end":5671.62,"text":"我們沒有扭曲啦"},{"start":5671.62,"end":5673.62,"text":"好不好 謝謝"},{"start":5670.7,"end":5672.7,"text":"好 謝謝林德虎委員的諮詢"},{"start":5672.7,"end":5674.7,"text":"現在請我們召會李彥秀"},{"start":5674.7,"end":5676.7,"text":"委員諮詢請"},{"start":5678.03,"end":5680.03,"text":"謝謝主席 我可不可以邀請農業部胡政次"},{"start":5680.03,"end":5682.03,"text":"以及衛福部莊次長"},{"start":5682.03,"end":5684.03,"text":"以及相關需要署的同仁"},{"start":5684.03,"end":5686.03,"text":"一起上來 謝謝"},{"start":5691.06,"end":5693.06,"text":"委員好"},{"start":5692.36,"end":5694.36,"text":"次長你好喔"},{"start":5694.36,"end":5696.36,"text":"這一次有關美國馬鈴薯進口的爭議喔"},{"start":5696.36,"end":5698.36,"text":"無論剛才"},{"start":5698.36,"end":5700.36,"text":"我們很多規定都沒有調整"},{"start":5700.36,"end":5702.36,"text":"但是檢疫署在今年2月6號"},{"start":5702.36,"end":5704.36,"text":"對於檢疫的條件"},{"start":5704.36,"end":5706.36,"text":"其實還是有做調整"},{"start":5706.36,"end":5708.36,"text":"把它分成加工跟限時分流的管理"},{"start":5708.36,"end":5710.36,"text":"這個管理是調整的"},{"start":5710.36,"end":5712.36,"text":"對不對"},{"start":5712.36,"end":5714.36,"text":"這個管理的調整"},{"start":5714.36,"end":5716.36,"text":"真正我個人認為"},{"start":5716.36,"end":5718.36,"text":"真正的風險不是一顆丟掉"},{"start":5718.36,"end":5720.36,"text":"或要不要挖掉的問題"},{"start":5720.36,"end":5722.36,"text":"現在的風險是目前的整套配套措施"},{"start":5722.36,"end":5724.36,"text":"能不能"},{"start":5724.36,"end":5726.36,"text":"去撐得住"},{"start":5726.36,"end":5728.36,"text":"這個調整的機制"},{"start":5728.36,"end":5730.36,"text":"對於國人食安的風險到底是什麼"},{"start":5730.36,"end":5732.36,"text":"好 我就看到現在"},{"start":5732.36,"end":5734.36,"text":"的防線設計"},{"start":5734.36,"end":5736.36,"text":"關鍵字喔"},{"start":5736.36,"end":5738.36,"text":"就是指定加工廠"},{"start":5738.36,"end":5740.36,"text":"我們現在有一道"},{"start":5740.36,"end":5742.36,"text":"邊境管理 第二道就是送到"},{"start":5742.36,"end":5744.36,"text":"指定加工廠"},{"start":5744.36,"end":5746.36,"text":"不合格的我們要整箱整顆的銷毀"},{"start":5746.36,"end":5748.36,"text":"那合格才能合法的"},{"start":5748.36,"end":5750.36,"text":"輸入 那我要請問"},{"start":5750.36,"end":5752.36,"text":"我們現在境內關外的"},{"start":5752.36,"end":5754.36,"text":"新規定喔 指定加工廠"},{"start":5754.36,"end":5756.36,"text":"的廠商有幾家"},{"start":5756.56,"end":5758.56,"text":"過去是17家申請"},{"start":5758.56,"end":5760.56,"text":"有在進口"},{"start":5760.56,"end":5762.56,"text":"有17家申請為國內的"},{"start":5762.56,"end":5764.56,"text":"指定加工廠"},{"start":5764.29,"end":5766.29,"text":"指定的地點有幾處"},{"start":5766.29,"end":5768.29,"text":"進口商進口商有幾處"},{"start":5768.29,"end":5770.29,"text":"指定的地點喔 有幾處"},{"start":5770.29,"end":5772.29,"text":"那有足夠的"},{"start":5772.29,"end":5774.29,"text":"篩選機器嗎"},{"start":5774.29,"end":5776.29,"text":"我們現在總處理量 未來"},{"start":5776.29,"end":5778.29,"text":"不預估馬鈴薯的總"},{"start":5778.29,"end":5780.29,"text":"總進來的量到底有多少公噸"},{"start":5780.29,"end":5782.29,"text":"有沒有辦法除以"},{"start":5782.29,"end":5784.29,"text":"消化馬鈴薯進口約"},{"start":5784.29,"end":5786.29,"text":"四成的量 就是進口占比"},{"start":5786.29,"end":5788.29,"text":"約四成的量 有沒有辦法去"},{"start":5788.29,"end":5790.29,"text":"做這樣的篩選機制"},{"start":5790.44,"end":5792.44,"text":"報告委員 是這樣子"},{"start":5792.44,"end":5794.44,"text":"如果在邊境我們檢查到"},{"start":5794.44,"end":5796.44,"text":"他如果 你不要再重複之前"},{"start":5796.44,"end":5798.44,"text":"講的話 因為你現在"},{"start":5798.44,"end":5800.44,"text":"新做的調整機制"},{"start":5800.44,"end":5802.44,"text":"分成進口跟加工"},{"start":5802.44,"end":5804.44,"text":"跟限時 有問題的"},{"start":5804.44,"end":5806.44,"text":"我們送到第二關 你第二關"},{"start":5806.44,"end":5808.44,"text":"我的問題是 你第二關沒有把關好"},{"start":5808.44,"end":5810.44,"text":"我第一關邊境發生問題"},{"start":5810.44,"end":5812.44,"text":"我的加工的"},{"start":5812.44,"end":5814.44,"text":"篩選的地點 沒把關好"},{"start":5814.44,"end":5816.44,"text":"放了水"},{"start":5817.31,"end":5819.31,"text":"那吃到東西就是國人的健康問題"},{"start":5819.31,"end":5821.31,"text":"你懂我的意思嗎 我知道"},{"start":5821.31,"end":5823.31,"text":"我邊境的同仁 管得很辛苦"},{"start":5823.31,"end":5825.31,"text":"看得很仔細"},{"start":5825.31,"end":5827.31,"text":"你後面指定加工場所"},{"start":5827.31,"end":5829.31,"text":"所以我剛才為什麼這樣問你"},{"start":5829.31,"end":5831.31,"text":"我問你說 你到底有幾家廠商"},{"start":5831.31,"end":5833.31,"text":"然後指定的地點到底有幾處"},{"start":5833.31,"end":5835.31,"text":"未來的總處理量"},{"start":5835.31,"end":5837.31,"text":"可以有多少公噸"},{"start":5837.31,"end":5839.31,"text":"要不然進來這麼多"},{"start":5839.31,"end":5841.31,"text":"我只有能力看那麼一點都塞在那邊"},{"start":5841.31,"end":5843.31,"text":"或者沒有仔細看 後面這是我們食安的問題"},{"start":5843.31,"end":5845.31,"text":"這是我第一點要通險的問題"},{"start":5845.31,"end":5847.31,"text":"房檢署一再的強調"},{"start":5847.31,"end":5849.31,"text":"邊境的檢查加上加工場的篩選"},{"start":5849.31,"end":5851.31,"text":"你們有雙重的機制"},{"start":5851.31,"end":5853.31,"text":"但是這個監管機制"},{"start":5853.31,"end":5855.31,"text":"是不是像我們現在檢查大蒜一樣"},{"start":5855.31,"end":5857.31,"text":"大蒜我們看到有沒有"},{"start":5857.31,"end":5859.31,"text":"跟土合在一起"},{"start":5859.31,"end":5861.31,"text":"我們是用這樣的判定機制嗎"},{"start":5862.57,"end":5864.57,"text":"目前我們是"},{"start":5864.57,"end":5866.57,"text":"還是我們是不定期的"},{"start":5866.57,"end":5868.57,"text":"你是每一顆都看"},{"start":5868.57,"end":5870.57,"text":"還是說不定期的抽查"},{"start":5870.57,"end":5872.57,"text":"在邊境我們是"},{"start":5872.57,"end":5874.57,"text":"如果申報來的話"},{"start":5874.57,"end":5876.57,"text":"比如說每一批"},{"start":5876.57,"end":5878.57,"text":"我們是抽檢60%"},{"start":5878.57,"end":5880.57,"text":"以後要再增加嗎"},{"start":5880.57,"end":5882.57,"text":"因為以後跟美國進口馬鈴薯量"},{"start":5882.57,"end":5884.57,"text":"可能會再增加"},{"start":5884.57,"end":5886.57,"text":"你會再增加抽檢機制量嗎"},{"start":5886.57,"end":5888.57,"text":"這個60%已經很高了"},{"start":5888.57,"end":5890.57,"text":"因為班多高5%"},{"start":5890.57,"end":5892.57,"text":"10以內"},{"start":5892.57,"end":5894.57,"text":"所以你也不打算再調高就對了"},{"start":5894.57,"end":5896.57,"text":"不是你的答案"},{"start":5896.57,"end":5898.57,"text":"你認為60%已經很高"},{"start":5898.57,"end":5900.57,"text":"我不知道國人滿不滿意"},{"start":5900.57,"end":5902.57,"text":"我個人是不滿意的"},{"start":5902.57,"end":5904.57,"text":"昨天一直在講日本模式"},{"start":5904.57,"end":5906.57,"text":"日本模式對於相關的加工場"},{"start":5906.57,"end":5908.57,"text":"有明確的稽查機制"},{"start":5908.57,"end":5910.57,"text":"又有罰則"},{"start":5910.57,"end":5912.57,"text":"我們現在有沒有"},{"start":5912.57,"end":5914.57,"text":"已經有了嗎"},{"start":5914.19,"end":5916.19,"text":"你相關的罰金"},{"start":5916.19,"end":5918.19,"text":"包括廢止指定資格的門檻"},{"start":5918.19,"end":5920.19,"text":"你現在都已經有"},{"start":5920.19,"end":5922.19,"text":"完整的機制"},{"start":5922.19,"end":5924.19,"text":"我們如果在同意"},{"start":5924.94,"end":5926.94,"text":"就是同意"},{"start":5926.94,"end":5928.94,"text":"如果查驗到我們就退運"},{"start":5928.94,"end":5930.94,"text":"退運不太好待機"},{"start":5930.94,"end":5932.94,"text":"如果他有漏檢查"},{"start":5932.94,"end":5934.94,"text":"或者有什麼樣的弊端的話"},{"start":5934.94,"end":5936.94,"text":"放水的話"},{"start":5936.94,"end":5938.94,"text":"有3萬到15萬"},{"start":5938.94,"end":5940.94,"text":"我們用植物防疫檢疫法"},{"start":5940.94,"end":5942.94,"text":"第17條第1項"},{"start":5942.94,"end":5944.94,"text":"罰3萬到15萬"},{"start":5944.94,"end":5946.94,"text":"國人可以接受"},{"start":5946.94,"end":5948.94,"text":"這個是我提醒的點"},{"start":5948.94,"end":5950.94,"text":"我希望你們回去再思考一下"},{"start":5950.94,"end":5952.94,"text":"我現在請衛福部的次長"},{"start":5952.94,"end":5954.94,"text":"現在要把焦點從看得見的發芽"},{"start":5954.94,"end":5956.94,"text":"轉到看不見的化學禪流"},{"start":5956.94,"end":5958.94,"text":"剛才大家一直在談龍虧檢"},{"start":5958.94,"end":5960.94,"text":"但是事實上有另外一個問題"},{"start":5960.94,"end":5962.94,"text":"房間署這一次"},{"start":5962.94,"end":5964.94,"text":"新規定有強調說"},{"start":5964.94,"end":5966.94,"text":"要求美方在輸出前"},{"start":5966.94,"end":5968.94,"text":"要在那個"},{"start":5968.94,"end":5970.94,"text":"發芽要塗一個發芽抑制劑"},{"start":5970.94,"end":5972.94,"text":"叫做克普芬"},{"start":5972.94,"end":5974.94,"text":"要再塗一個發芽抑制劑"},{"start":5976.15,"end":5978.15,"text":"克普芬是好東西嗎"},{"start":5978.15,"end":5980.15,"text":"看起來他可以抑制"},{"start":5980.15,"end":5982.15,"text":"馬鈴薯不要太快發芽"},{"start":5982.15,"end":5984.15,"text":"但是塗了之後"},{"start":5985.57,"end":5987.57,"text":"對身體克普芬"},{"start":5987.57,"end":5989.57,"text":"從國際的評估標準我看到的"},{"start":5989.57,"end":5991.57,"text":"他對於造成身體的內分泌干擾"},{"start":5991.57,"end":5993.57,"text":"還有輕人代謝致癌"},{"start":5993.57,"end":5995.57,"text":"會有疑慮"},{"start":5995.57,"end":5997.57,"text":"所以這件事情"},{"start":5997.57,"end":5999.57,"text":"塗了這個事情"},{"start":5999.57,"end":6001.57,"text":"抑制他發芽但是塗了之後"},{"start":6001.57,"end":6003.57,"text":"對身體卻有傷害"},{"start":6003.57,"end":6005.57,"text":"那我再回來看次長"},{"start":6005.75,"end":6007.75,"text":"克普芬我們現在在歐盟的標準"},{"start":6007.75,"end":6009.75,"text":"是0.2ppm"},{"start":6009.75,"end":6011.75,"text":"那我們現在是30ppm"},{"start":6011.75,"end":6013.75,"text":"對不對"},{"start":6013.75,"end":6015.75,"text":"我沒有講錯嘛"},{"start":6015.75,"end":6017.75,"text":"這個標準我沒有講錯嘛"},{"start":6017.75,"end":6019.75,"text":"歐盟對於克普芬的殘留是0.2ppm"},{"start":6019.75,"end":6021.75,"text":"台灣目前對克普芬"},{"start":6021.75,"end":6023.75,"text":"其他個我都是30"},{"start":6023.75,"end":6025.75,"text":"我講的標準沒有錯嘛"},{"start":6025.75,"end":6027.75,"text":"我沒有亂講嘛"},{"start":6027.75,"end":6029.75,"text":"我們台灣的殘留是0.2ppm"},{"start":6029.75,"end":6031.75,"text":"台灣目前對克普芬"},{"start":6031.75,"end":6033.75,"text":"其他個我都是30"},{"start":6033.75,"end":6035.75,"text":"我沒有亂講嘛"},{"start":6035.75,"end":6037.75,"text":"歐盟對於克普芬的殘留允許值是0.2ppm"},{"start":6037.75,"end":6039.75,"text":"歐盟對於克普芬的殘留允許值是0.2ppm"},{"start":6039.75,"end":6041.75,"text":"我們台灣目前允許"},{"start":6041.75,"end":6043.75,"text":"這個殘留值是30ppm"},{"start":6043.75,"end":6045.75,"text":"好"},{"start":6045.75,"end":6047.75,"text":"除了一個輪回減之外"},{"start":6047.75,"end":6049.75,"text":"我們現在要求美方禁止了馬鈴薯"},{"start":6049.75,"end":6051.75,"text":"要塗克普芬這個東西"},{"start":6051.75,"end":6053.75,"text":"但是我們卻高於"},{"start":6053.75,"end":6055.75,"text":"歐盟的這個標準"},{"start":6055.75,"end":6057.75,"text":"是150倍"},{"start":6057.75,"end":6059.75,"text":"這個150倍對我們身體的傷害"},{"start":6059.75,"end":6061.75,"text":"是造成內分泌的影響"},{"start":6061.75,"end":6063.75,"text":"還有包括致癌的影響"},{"start":6063.75,"end":6065.75,"text":"這個我覺得是你們要去思考的"},{"start":6065.75,"end":6067.75,"text":"那我現在再請問"},{"start":6067.75,"end":6069.75,"text":"就是說包括克普芬"},{"start":6069.75,"end":6071.75,"text":"還有包括克普芬產生的代謝物"},{"start":6071.75,"end":6073.75,"text":"三立本胺"},{"start":6073.75,"end":6075.75,"text":"克普芬因為產生三立本胺"},{"start":6075.75,"end":6077.75,"text":"我們未來有沒有抽檢的比例"},{"start":6077.75,"end":6079.75,"text":"除了大家說看到"},{"start":6079.75,"end":6081.75,"text":"發芽的部分其實看不到的"},{"start":6081.75,"end":6083.75,"text":"是另外一個對我們身體的影優"},{"start":6083.75,"end":6085.75,"text":"這是我擔心的"},{"start":6085.75,"end":6087.75,"text":"那我們到底有沒有抽檢的數據跟抽檢率"},{"start":6087.75,"end":6089.75,"text":"有沒有設定這個標準"},{"start":6089.75,"end":6091.75,"text":"沒有"},{"start":6090.58,"end":6092.58,"text":"有這個都有"},{"start":6092.58,"end":6094.58,"text":"那鮑委員這個其實都107年"},{"start":6094.58,"end":6096.58,"text":"訂下來的"},{"start":6096.58,"end":6098.58,"text":"雖然歐盟是002"},{"start":6098.58,"end":6100.58,"text":"但是美國的產生是30%"},{"start":6100.58,"end":6102.58,"text":"我們現在大量進口美國的馬鈴薯"},{"start":6102.58,"end":6104.58,"text":"因為臺美貿易的關係"},{"start":6104.58,"end":6106.58,"text":"我也不反對但是國安的施壓"},{"start":6106.58,"end":6108.58,"text":"我是要把關的"},{"start":6108.58,"end":6110.58,"text":"不管你是什麼時候訂"},{"start":6110.58,"end":6112.58,"text":"我覺得國安不能夠忍受"},{"start":6112.58,"end":6114.58,"text":"現在我們對於克普芬"},{"start":6114.58,"end":6116.58,"text":"包括三立本胺的產生值超過歐盟的150倍"},{"start":6116.58,"end":6118.58,"text":"這是我要提醒你的地方"},{"start":6118.58,"end":6120.58,"text":"不要不要各位"},{"start":6120.58,"end":6122.58,"text":"這是跟美國Codex一樣"},{"start":6122.58,"end":6124.58,"text":"但是對歐盟卻高於150倍"},{"start":6124.58,"end":6126.58,"text":"我相信對國人來說"},{"start":6126.58,"end":6128.58,"text":"食安過去蔡政府是5個洞"},{"start":6128.58,"end":6130.58,"text":"現在在內政府"},{"start":6130.58,"end":6132.58,"text":"變成7個洞10個洞"},{"start":6132.58,"end":6134.58,"text":"我相信是國人不能夠接受的"},{"start":6134.58,"end":6136.58,"text":"大家國人對於喜歡吃薯條"},{"start":6136.58,"end":6138.58,"text":"吃馬鈴薯片"},{"start":6138.58,"end":6140.58,"text":"那原來大家都特別是年輕人"},{"start":6140.58,"end":6142.58,"text":"很喜歡吃這個對身體是長遠的影響"},{"start":6142.58,"end":6144.58,"text":"這也是我站在監督的立場"},{"start":6144.58,"end":6146.58,"text":"署長我要提醒的地方"},{"start":6146.58,"end":6148.58,"text":"你們回去思考"},{"start":6148.58,"end":6150.58,"text":"國人不能接受你們要開放這些東西"},{"start":6150.58,"end":6152.58,"text":"對於產量值的標準"},{"start":6152.58,"end":6154.58,"text":"要不要再嚴格把關比照歐盟的標準"},{"start":6154.58,"end":6156.58,"text":"是我要提醒的地方"},{"start":6156.58,"end":6158.58,"text":"我的時間到我先"},{"start":6158.58,"end":6160.58,"text":"接下來請主計長"},{"start":6160.58,"end":6162.58,"text":"主計長我最近我還是要關心一下"},{"start":6162.58,"end":6164.58,"text":"不是主計長對不起"},{"start":6164.58,"end":6166.58,"text":"沈計長"},{"start":6165.62,"end":6167.62,"text":"我主計長來提問了"},{"start":6167.62,"end":6169.62,"text":"我留時間"},{"start":6169.62,"end":6171.62,"text":"最近台灣有幾個"},{"start":6171.62,"end":6173.62,"text":"重大的公共工程的爆發的事件"},{"start":6173.62,"end":6175.62,"text":"我在媒體上有看到"},{"start":6175.62,"end":6177.62,"text":"包括第一件是移民署的"},{"start":6177.62,"end":6179.62,"text":"防彈背心採購案"},{"start":6179.62,"end":6181.62,"text":"第二個是"},{"start":6181.62,"end":6183.62,"text":"我們包括月初我在媒體上看到"},{"start":6183.62,"end":6185.62,"text":"是七街碼頭城鄉工程案"},{"start":6185.62,"end":6187.62,"text":"這些連鎮署"},{"start":6187.62,"end":6189.62,"text":"現在已經接獲已經介入調查"},{"start":6189.62,"end":6191.62,"text":"包括在媒體"},{"start":6191.62,"end":6193.62,"text":"看到的相關的一些事件"},{"start":6193.62,"end":6195.62,"text":"我們沈計處也會不會"},{"start":6195.62,"end":6197.62,"text":"也介入調查也會不會進一步做了解"},{"start":6197.62,"end":6199.62,"text":"會"},{"start":6199.62,"end":6201.62,"text":"因為剛剛講的防彈背心"},{"start":6201.62,"end":6203.62,"text":"是我們沈計部查出來的"},{"start":6203.62,"end":6205.62,"text":"好主計長"},{"start":6205.62,"end":6207.62,"text":"第一個案子是因為採購的"},{"start":6207.62,"end":6209.62,"text":"偽劣品萌換"},{"start":6209.62,"end":6211.62,"text":"是一個重大的工程的弊端"},{"start":6211.62,"end":6213.62,"text":"另外一個是重大工程"},{"start":6213.62,"end":6215.62,"text":"異地施作看起來好像圖利"},{"start":6215.62,"end":6217.62,"text":"包含工程延檔"},{"start":6217.62,"end":6219.62,"text":"共同的問題都是"},{"start":6219.62,"end":6221.62,"text":"履約審查跟監督的"},{"start":6221.62,"end":6223.62,"text":"機制失靈了"},{"start":6223.62,"end":6225.62,"text":"工程還在進行當中"},{"start":6225.62,"end":6227.62,"text":"我不希望每一次都是"},{"start":6227.62,"end":6229.62,"text":"沈計處在事後我們才發現問題"},{"start":6229.62,"end":6231.62,"text":"在"},{"start":6231.62,"end":6233.62,"text":"執行契約的過程當中"},{"start":6233.62,"end":6235.62,"text":"我們如果能夠發現問題"},{"start":6235.62,"end":6237.62,"text":"當然是更好"},{"start":6237.62,"end":6239.6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要求他增資"},{"start":7621.61,"end":7623.61,"text":"只給他20億"},{"start":7624.12,"end":7626.12,"text":"會虧69.15億"},{"start":7626.12,"end":7628.12,"text":"你只給他20億"},{"start":7628.12,"end":7630.12,"text":"那又不給他的出口"},{"start":7630.12,"end":7632.12,"text":"讓他針對高用水"},{"start":7632.12,"end":7634.12,"text":"用戶去收 也沒有"},{"start":7634.12,"end":7636.12,"text":"你們也不給他財務預算"},{"start":7636.12,"end":7638.12,"text":"專案的預算的這個年度預算給他"},{"start":7638.12,"end":7640.12,"text":"也不給 然後呢"},{"start":7640.12,"end":7642.12,"text":"這個超收的稅收"},{"start":7642.12,"end":7644.12,"text":"也不全額撥補"},{"start":7644.12,"end":7646.12,"text":"好 那這個增資啊"},{"start":7646.12,"end":7648.12,"text":"這個還是有貓膩的 什麼貓膩在裡面"},{"start":7648.12,"end":7650.12,"text":"這個增資啊 台水需負擔什麼"},{"start":7650.12,"end":7652.12,"text":"擇舊跟攤提"},{"start":7652.12,"end":7654.12,"text":"所以你們給"},{"start":7654.12,"end":7656.12,"text":"支持他去做肉水工程"},{"start":7656.12,"end":7658.12,"text":"你們都給得不爽快啊"},{"start":7658.62,"end":7660.62,"text":"好 那核心是什麼"},{"start":7660.62,"end":7662.62,"text":"本席要問了"},{"start":7662.62,"end":7664.62,"text":"四年總計80億的增資"},{"start":7664.62,"end":7666.62,"text":"這是你們給他的喔"},{"start":7666.62,"end":7668.62,"text":"連這個彌補單年度的虧損"},{"start":7668.62,"end":7670.62,"text":"都遠遠不夠"},{"start":7670.62,"end":7672.62,"text":"更緩論支撐未來高達808億的"},{"start":7672.62,"end":7674.62,"text":"降落計畫"},{"start":7674.62,"end":7676.62,"text":"這是在推動建設"},{"start":7676.62,"end":7678.62,"text":"還是看著國營事業慢性破產"},{"start":7678.62,"end":7680.62,"text":"什麼叫做慢性破產"},{"start":7680.62,"end":7682.62,"text":"除了808億他一定"},{"start":7682.62,"end":7684.62,"text":"做越多虧對國之外"},{"start":7684.62,"end":7686.62,"text":"他現在負債多少錢"},{"start":7686.62,"end":7688.62,"text":"1000億啊"},{"start":7688.62,"end":7690.62,"text":"這1000億怎麼來"},{"start":7690.62,"end":7692.62,"text":"都是這樣來的"},{"start":7692.62,"end":7694.62,"text":"都是推動公共建設而來"},{"start":7694.62,"end":7696.62,"text":"難道是董事長總經理跟所有主管把錢吃掉了嗎"},{"start":7696.62,"end":7698.62,"text":"他們金魚不散嗎"},{"start":7698.62,"end":7700.62,"text":"沒有耶"},{"start":7700.62,"end":7702.62,"text":"現在背負的1000億"},{"start":7702.62,"end":7704.62,"text":"跟銀行借錢來"},{"start":7704.62,"end":7706.62,"text":"來辦這個降落"},{"start":7706.44,"end":7708.44,"text":"從全部都借錢耶"},{"start":7708.44,"end":7710.44,"text":"好我說你們還是沒看到"},{"start":7710.44,"end":7712.44,"text":"這個假性資產的投資"},{"start":7712.44,"end":7714.44,"text":"說好了8084投資"},{"start":7714.91,"end":7716.91,"text":"這個一般商業的基礎回收"},{"start":7716.91,"end":7718.91,"text":"的回收期是10到15年"},{"start":7718.91,"end":7720.91,"text":"那其實這個808億"},{"start":7720.91,"end":7722.91,"text":"就商業的角度"},{"start":7722.91,"end":7724.91,"text":"他的內部報酬率是多少"},{"start":7725.97,"end":7727.97,"text":"負2.7"},{"start":7727.97,"end":7729.97,"text":"表示絕對了"},{"start":7729.97,"end":7731.97,"text":"做越多虧越多"},{"start":7731.97,"end":7733.97,"text":"然後回收"},{"start":7733.97,"end":7735.97,"text":"我們一定要給他算回收"},{"start":7735.97,"end":7737.97,"text":"因為他有很大的社會外部效益"},{"start":7737.97,"end":7739.97,"text":"給他算到外部會社效益之後"},{"start":7739.97,"end":7741.97,"text":"他也等42年回收"},{"start":7741.97,"end":7743.97,"text":"我本來一般講10到15年"},{"start":7743.97,"end":7745.97,"text":"就回收了"},{"start":7745.97,"end":7747.97,"text":"因為你說要他自負盈虧"},{"start":7747.97,"end":7749.97,"text":"結果勉強的把社會公益性"},{"start":7749.97,"end":7751.97,"text":"算進去也要42年"},{"start":7751.97,"end":7753.97,"text":"好這個社會公益性"},{"start":7753.97,"end":7755.97,"text":"我們強化社會的水潤性"},{"start":7755.97,"end":7757.97,"text":"我們減碳"},{"start":7757.97,"end":7759.97,"text":"這不就是典型的公共建設"},{"start":7760.68,"end":7762.68,"text":"的現值嗎"},{"start":7762.68,"end":7764.68,"text":"當然要由國家專案預算全額支出"},{"start":7764.68,"end":7766.68,"text":"而非迫使國營"},{"start":7766.68,"end":7768.68,"text":"事業來負擔"},{"start":7768.68,"end":7770.68,"text":"然後來看審計部"},{"start":7770.68,"end":7772.68,"text":"這個審計部也非常的有趣"},{"start":7772.68,"end":7774.68,"text":"審計長這個"},{"start":7774.68,"end":7776.68,"text":"您就看一下等一下你再來回應"},{"start":7776.68,"end":7778.68,"text":"你們說這個"},{"start":7778.68,"end":7780.68,"text":"先看到第六頁你們很有趣"},{"start":7780.68,"end":7782.68,"text":"你們這個台水"},{"start":7782.68,"end":7784.68,"text":"把你們的審計部的意見"},{"start":7784.68,"end":7786.68,"text":"跟我們立法院報告"},{"start":7786.68,"end":7788.68,"text":"好了這邊是112年的報告"},{"start":7788.68,"end":7790.68,"text":"以研謀改善"},{"start":7790.68,"end":7792.68,"text":"或依改善措施"},{"start":7792.68,"end":7794.68,"text":"持續辦理的"},{"start":7794.68,"end":7796.68,"text":"你們羅列的五項112年"},{"start":7796.68,"end":7798.68,"text":"其中的第四項說"},{"start":7798.68,"end":7800.68,"text":"台水你有問題為配合國家"},{"start":7800.68,"end":7802.68,"text":"經濟建設及永續發展"},{"start":7802.68,"end":7804.68,"text":"每年投入巨額資金辦理"},{"start":7804.68,"end":7806.68,"text":"重大新建計畫為部分"},{"start":7806.68,"end":7808.68,"text":"計畫工程進度"},{"start":7808.68,"end":7810.68,"text":"及完成後經濟效益"},{"start":7810.68,"end":7812.68,"text":"未達預期目標"},{"start":7812.68,"end":7814.68,"text":"與你研謀"},{"start":7814.68,"end":7816.68,"text":"善策"},{"start":7816.68,"end":7818.68,"text":"請神仙來我都不曉得"},{"start":7818.68,"end":7820.68,"text":"哪一位神仙能夠"},{"start":7820.68,"end":7822.68,"text":"能夠解決台水的這個負擔"},{"start":7822.68,"end":7824.68,"text":"完全不給他出入"},{"start":7824.68,"end":7826.68,"text":"這個也不給他"},{"start":7826.68,"end":7828.68,"text":"之後輩的資源"},{"start":7828.68,"end":7830.68,"text":"只叫他你做你就賠吧"},{"start":7830.68,"end":7832.68,"text":"那你叫他怎麼援你"},{"start":7832.68,"end":7834.68,"text":"那我們就以808億來看"},{"start":7835.23,"end":7837.23,"text":"剛才那個"},{"start":7837.05,"end":7839.05,"text":"對你投入背負這句"},{"start":7839.05,"end":7841.05,"text":"808億喔你是"},{"start":7841.05,"end":7843.05,"text":"這個施工工程"},{"start":7843.05,"end":7845.05,"text":"本是標真的過去"},{"start":7845.05,"end":7847.05,"text":"台灣一公里的管線我只要"},{"start":7847.05,"end":7849.05,"text":"700萬今天因為勞力"},{"start":7849.05,"end":7851.05,"text":"成本通膨包括"},{"start":7851.05,"end":7853.05,"text":"你經過的路段已經進入了"},{"start":7853.05,"end":7855.05,"text":"這個降漏水的工程"},{"start":7855.05,"end":7857.05,"text":"的深水區所以你現在"},{"start":7857.05,"end":7859.05,"text":"暴增你一公里的管線成本是"},{"start":7859.05,"end":7861.05,"text":"1000萬增幅40"},{"start":7861.05,"end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那加工用的話"},{"start":8388.03,"end":8390.03,"text":"我們農業部的角色是三個"},{"start":8390.03,"end":8392.03,"text":"第一個我們先看有沒有帶土壤"},{"start":8392.03,"end":8394.03,"text":"帶土壤那個必須要推進"},{"start":8394.03,"end":8396.03,"text":"第二個它有沒有八種"},{"start":8396.03,"end":8398.03,"text":"病蟲害"},{"start":8397.51,"end":8399.51,"text":"第三個"},{"start":8408.96,"end":8410.96,"text":"我沒有參與"},{"start":8413.17,"end":8417.17,"text":"農業部其實我們另外有一位次長"},{"start":8417.17,"end":8419.17,"text":"因為他現在人出國我是代理他來備詢"},{"start":8419.17,"end":8421.17,"text":"我不曉得他是不是有"},{"start":8421.17,"end":8423.17,"text":"好那衛福部呢"},{"start":8423.17,"end":8425.17,"text":"莊次長"},{"start":8424.14,"end":8426.14,"text":"報告委員這個食安的議題的檢驗部分"},{"start":8426.14,"end":8428.14,"text":"我們一直都沒有變"},{"start":8428.14,"end":8430.14,"text":"從107年到現在"},{"start":8430.14,"end":8432.14,"text":"所以驗的龍蝰檢"},{"start":8432.14,"end":8434.14,"text":"還有剛剛的那個藝芽器"},{"start":8434.14,"end":8436.14,"text":"藝芽樹的部分都是依照當時的規定"},{"start":8436.14,"end":8438.14,"text":"都沒有改變"},{"start":8438.14,"end":8440.14,"text":"以上"},{"start":8439.32,"end":8441.32,"text":"但是我的問題是在問說"},{"start":8441.32,"end":8443.32,"text":"你們當初衛福部有去參與到"},{"start":8443.32,"end":8445.32,"text":"我們在台美關稅談判當中嗎"},{"start":8446.97,"end":8448.97,"text":"呃"},{"start":8448.08,"end":8450.08,"text":"我們沒有這個議題"},{"start":8450.08,"end":8452.08,"text":"發芽的部分不是我們的"},{"start":8452.08,"end":8454.08,"text":"沒有嘛結果全部都是因應到"},{"start":8454.08,"end":8456.08,"text":"你們事實上是要被事後通知的"},{"start":8456.08,"end":8458.08,"text":"所以才趕著要在"},{"start":8458.08,"end":8460.08,"text":"1月21號可能有些結果"},{"start":8460.08,"end":8462.08,"text":"應該是說"},{"start":8462.08,"end":8464.08,"text":"這個整個內容沒有"},{"start":8464.08,"end":8466.08,"text":"這個檢驗的問題"},{"start":8466.08,"end":8468.08,"text":"對但是問題是因為這是農業部的"},{"start":8468.08,"end":8470.08,"text":"農業部他把這樣子一個"},{"start":8470.08,"end":8472.08,"text":"檢疫的條件把它放寬了"},{"start":8472.08,"end":8474.08,"text":"是這個部分"},{"start":8474.08,"end":8476.08,"text":"那這裡所造成的效果是"},{"start":8476.08,"end":8478.08,"text":"我在想"},{"start":8477.43,"end":8479.43,"text":"農業部你們這邊"},{"start":8479.43,"end":8481.43,"text":"應該說因為現在沒有人能夠證明說你們沒有參加"},{"start":8481.43,"end":8483.43,"text":"可是就我們現在談判代表沒有看到"},{"start":8483.43,"end":8485.43,"text":"這樣一個人在裡面"},{"start":8485.43,"end":8487.43,"text":"這就是顯示出來你們現在遇到"},{"start":8487.43,"end":8489.43,"text":"這樣的問題的時候你們等於說是被事後告知"},{"start":8489.43,"end":8491.43,"text":"是以我們的"},{"start":8491.43,"end":8493.43,"text":"要關稅的降免為代價"},{"start":8493.43,"end":8495.43,"text":"但是可是你們現在"},{"start":8495.43,"end":8497.43,"text":"要是我在想說如果說"},{"start":8497.43,"end":8499.43,"text":"我們的這個事"},{"start":8499.43,"end":8501.43,"text":"沒有在現在4月份"},{"start":8501.43,"end":8503.43,"text":"包包出來是不是"},{"start":8503.43,"end":8505.43,"text":"當然我也知道你剛剛有說過"},{"start":8505.43,"end":8507.43,"text":"要去加工的部分是7月才會進來"},{"start":8507.43,"end":8509.43,"text":"但是如果是"},{"start":8509.43,"end":8511.43,"text":"他們進口進來了"},{"start":8511.43,"end":8513.43,"text":"直接後來在防疫上面沒有知道"},{"start":8513.43,"end":8515.43,"text":"而且我們根本就是不太理解的話"},{"start":8515.43,"end":8517.43,"text":"到時候就是廠商"},{"start":8517.43,"end":8519.43,"text":"這個進加工的"},{"start":8519.43,"end":8521.43,"text":"有問題的可能有問題的馬鈴薯"},{"start":8521.43,"end":8523.43,"text":"就直接進入到加工廠去"},{"start":8523.43,"end":8525.43,"text":"然後就直接被製造出來讓民眾"},{"start":8525.43,"end":8527.43,"text":"去使用了"},{"start":8527.43,"end":8529.43,"text":"這樣子的一個"},{"start":8528.76,"end":8530.76,"text":"狀況是不可能"},{"start":8530.6,"end":8532.6,"text":"會出現的是很有可能會出現的"},{"start":8533.22,"end":8535.22,"text":"所以這樣會說當初"},{"start":8535.65,"end":8537.65,"text":"我們的農業部還有幫我們衛福部"},{"start":8537.65,"end":8539.65,"text":"遇到這個情況"},{"start":8539.65,"end":8541.65,"text":"這樣的情況是不是根本就是沒有把"},{"start":8541.65,"end":8543.65,"text":"我們的人民的健康都代價"},{"start":8544.65,"end":8546.65,"text":"檢疫的條件沒有放寬"},{"start":8546.65,"end":8548.65,"text":"這個要跟委員"},{"start":8548.65,"end":8550.65,"text":"來做說明"},{"start":8550.65,"end":8552.65,"text":"有有有"},{"start":8552.65,"end":8554.65,"text":"檢疫的部分你們是"},{"start":8554.65,"end":8558.65,"text":"已經允許有發芽症狀的馬鈴薯加工的進入"},{"start":8558.65,"end":8560.65,"text":"怎麼會沒有"},{"start":8560.65,"end":8562.65,"text":"不是他那個是"},{"start":8562.65,"end":8564.65,"text":"本來是所有的加工也好"},{"start":8564.65,"end":8566.65,"text":"限時也好是"},{"start":8566.65,"end":8568.65,"text":"違反三種"},{"start":8568.65,"end":8570.65,"text":"一套標準在農業的部分我們"},{"start":8570.65,"end":8572.65,"text":"檢疫發現問題就馬上就退"},{"start":8572.93,"end":8574.93,"text":"我們現在是說你們日月部分是在說加工的部分"},{"start":8574.93,"end":8576.93,"text":"直接還到農業"},{"start":8576.93,"end":8578.93,"text":"直接還到加工廠去"},{"start":8578.93,"end":8580.93,"text":"好這個部分我看到你們的態度"},{"start":8580.93,"end":8582.93,"text":"上面事實上沒辦法就是"},{"start":8582.93,"end":8584.93,"text":"就是不要在這裡"},{"start":8584.93,"end":8586.93,"text":"因為我們現在看到你們現在"},{"start":8586.93,"end":8588.93,"text":"為什麼這裡這兩天的時候農業部"},{"start":8588.93,"end":8590.93,"text":"跟衛福部的"},{"start":8590.93,"end":8592.93,"text":"官員一直出來在講說我們會"},{"start":8592.93,"end":8594.93,"text":"真正"},{"start":8594.34,"end":8596.34,"text":"總院長他也很清楚的說了我們都會"},{"start":8596.34,"end"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我問民間的"},{"start":10521.76,"end":10523.76,"text":"這個"},{"start":10522.86,"end":10524.86,"text":"相關食品加工廠喔"},{"start":10525.29,"end":10527.29,"text":"他們連聽都沒聽過啦"},{"start":10527.29,"end":10529.29,"text":"人家都很老實回答承認嘛"},{"start":10529.29,"end":10531.29,"text":"那所以啊"},{"start":10531.29,"end":10533.29,"text":"我們要 我們說"},{"start":10533.29,"end":10535.29,"text":"我們輸入"},{"start":10535.29,"end":10537.29,"text":"我們的條件要比照日本"},{"start":10537.29,"end":10539.29,"text":"那我們也相對"},{"start":10539.29,"end":10541.29,"text":"也要有比照日本的設備"},{"start":10543.45,"end":10545.45,"text":"跟工廠"},{"start":10545.07,"end":10547.07,"text":"這樣的機制才能比照不是嗎"},{"start":10548.58,"end":10550.58,"text":"委員您所關心的就是"},{"start":10550.58,"end":10552.58,"text":"對不對 要不然你"},{"start":10552.58,"end":10554.58,"text":"你只說人家他們進口"},{"start":10554.58,"end":10556.58,"text":"他們哪一些可以寬一點"},{"start":10556.58,"end":10558.58,"text":"可以輕忽一點 這是好喔"},{"start":10558.58,"end":10560.58,"text":"這對大家各國之間貿易的往來"},{"start":10560.58,"end":10562.58,"text":"這對我們台灣"},{"start":10562.58,"end":10564.58,"text":"也不是不利"},{"start":10564.58,"end":10566.58,"text":"我們對人家進口的友善"},{"start":10566.58,"end":10568.58,"text":"方便通關"},{"start":10568.58,"end":10570.58,"text":"相對他們也要對我們方便"},{"start":10570.58,"end":10572.58,"text":"在農產品的部分"},{"start":10572.58,"end":10574.58,"text":"但是食品健康的部分"},{"start":10574.58,"end":10576.58,"text":"怎麼辦"},{"start":10576.58,"end":10578.58,"text":"我在問你 莊市長你是專家"},{"start":10580.01,"end":10582.01,"text":"那如果製成"},{"start":10582.01,"end":10584.01,"text":"欸 製成薯條"},{"start":10584.4,"end":10586.4,"text":"或薯餅以後"},{"start":10586.4,"end":10588.4,"text":"後端你有辦法再去"},{"start":10588.4,"end":10590.4,"text":"查驗農虧檢嗎"},{"start":10590.4,"end":10592.4,"text":"不可能啦 是嗎"},{"start":10592.4,"end":10594.4,"text":"傳統市場啦"},{"start":10594.4,"end":10596.4,"text":"或是像全聯商商這邊"},{"start":10596.4,"end":10598.4,"text":"我們會去抽驗 還有原料我們會去抽驗"},{"start":10598.4,"end":10600.4,"text":"那個已經"},{"start":10600.4,"end":10602.4,"text":"經過油炸"},{"start":10602.85,"end":10604.85,"text":"欸 經過曾祖"},{"start":10605.02,"end":10607.02,"text":"經過恩向程序以後"},{"start":10608.11,"end":10610.11,"text":"我看啊 我們"},{"start":10610.11,"end":10612.11,"text":"不管食藥署或地方政府衛生局"},{"start":10612.11,"end":10614.11,"text":"連一件也不會去查啦"},{"start":10614.11,"end":10616.11,"text":"呃 報告委員"},{"start":10616.11,"end":10618.11,"text":"如果這個產品進入到工廠"},{"start":10618.11,"end":10620.11,"text":"工廠裡面的產線"},{"start":10620.11,"end":10622.11,"text":"工廠的你們有去查"},{"start":10622.11,"end":10624.11,"text":"我們工廠有稽查專案"},{"start":10624.11,"end":10626.11,"text":"我們在去查的時候 我現在就請問你"},{"start":10626.11,"end":10628.11,"text":"可能我問的跟你問的不太一樣嘛"},{"start":10628.11,"end":10630.11,"text":"我就問你 你現在是不是趕快通令"},{"start":10630.11,"end":10632.11,"text":"這些有做"},{"start":10632.11,"end":10634.11,"text":"這個馬鈴薯加工"},{"start":10634.11,"end":10636.11,"text":"的這些工廠 請問他們"},{"start":10636.11,"end":10638.11,"text":"有沒有說自動化的"},{"start":10638.11,"end":10640.11,"text":"攝摺與形狀"},{"start":10640.11,"end":10642.11,"text":"辨識設備 有沒有"},{"start":10642.11,"end":10644.11,"text":"好不好"},{"start":10644.11,"end":10646.11,"text":"委員您關心的是選別機"},{"start":10646.11,"end":10648.11,"text":"那就是一個包括他的"},{"start":10648.11,"end":10650.11,"text":"因為我們說比照日本的標準"},{"start":10650.11,"end":10652.11,"text":"選擇機裡面"},{"start":10652.11,"end":10654.11,"text":"包括一開始原料去做一些選別"},{"start":10654.11,"end":10656.11,"text":"然後包括攝摺部分"},{"start":10656.11,"end":10658.11,"text":"那這個部分我們可以再去"},{"start":10658.11,"end":10660.11,"text":"你可以再跟工廠"},{"start":10660.11,"end":10662.11,"text":"我們會再跟往確認 但是基本上"},{"start":10662.11,"end":10664.11,"text":"這是一個工廠的基本設施設備"},{"start":10664.11,"end":10666.11,"text":"那麼那個莊市長"},{"start":10666.11,"end":10668.11,"text":"還有最後我請教一個問題"},{"start":10668.11,"end":10670.11,"text":"就是關於我們重要的藥品的管制"},{"start":10670.11,"end":10672.11,"text":"因為最近"},{"start":10672.11,"end":10674.11,"text":"國際上有一些紛擾比較不安"},{"start":10674.11,"end":10676.11,"text":"先前我們在進口藥品的部分"},{"start":10676.11,"end":10678.11,"text":"就已經碰到一些干擾"},{"start":10678.11,"end":10680.11,"text":"那這個問題就是說"},{"start":10680.11,"end":10682.11,"text":"過去長期以來"},{"start":10682.11,"end":10684.11,"text":"我們都沒有主動"},{"start":10684.11,"end":10686.11,"text":"去查核這些重要藥品"},{"start":10686.11,"end":10688.11,"text":"的量"},{"start":10688.23,"end":10690.23,"text":"能的這個部分"},{"start":10690.23,"end":10692.23,"text":"結果這個部分我們都是讓"},{"start":10692.23,"end":10694.23,"text":"藥商來向我們"},{"start":10694.23,"end":10696.23,"text":"來他們"},{"start":10696.23,"end":10698.23,"text":"反而是藥商主動必須"},{"start":10698.23,"end":10700.23,"text":"跟我們報備"},{"start":10700.23,"end":10702.23,"text":"那我們反而沒有反向"},{"start":10702.23,"end":10704.23,"text":"去主動要求"},{"start":10704.23,"end":10706.23,"text":"我們有立法他們一定要跟我們"},{"start":10706.23,"end":10708.23,"text":"報備 如果說六個月之內"},{"start":10708.23,"end":10710.23,"text":"有缺藥什麼他一定要跟我們通報"},{"start":10710.23,"end":10712.23,"text":"這個事實上是有法可以罰"},{"start":10712.23,"end":10714.23,"text":"對 這個是讓他"},{"start":10714.23,"end":10716.23,"text":"來報備 我們沒有"},{"start":10716.23,"end":10718.23,"text":"主動去查查"},{"start":10718.23,"end":10720.23,"text":"我認為針對主要"},{"start":10720.23,"end":10722.23,"text":"我們會去查工廠"},{"start":10722.23,"end":10724.23,"text":"也會 也會 也會"},{"start":10724.23,"end":10726.23,"text":"針對藥商報備來的"},{"start":10726.23,"end":10728.23,"text":"那現在怎麼會"},{"start":10728.23,"end":10730.23,"text":"這些重要的藥品有缺貨呢"},{"start":10730.23,"end":10732.23,"text":"主要有時候是因為突然"},{"start":10732.23,"end":10734.23,"text":"他原料有缺貨"},{"start":10734.23,"end":10736.23,"text":"或是說他們工廠要改建"},{"start":10736.23,"end":10738.23,"text":"那這其實有時候是"},{"start":10738.23,"end":10740.23,"text":"就是會發生類似這樣的狀況"},{"start":10740.23,"end":10742.23,"text":"這個我下次"},{"start":10742.23,"end":10744.23,"text":"好好跟你談一談"},{"start":10744.23,"end":10746.23,"text":"謝謝你 謝謝"},{"start":10745.54,"end":10747.54,"text":"謝謝王世堅委員"},{"start":10747.54,"end":10749.54,"text":"王世堅委員剛指導的高包"},{"start":10749.54,"end":10751.54,"text":"指定加工廠的部分"},{"start":10751.54,"end":10753.54,"text":"有沒有這樣的量能跟有沒有這樣的設備"},{"start":10753.54,"end":10755.54,"text":"可以去做篩檢"},{"start":10755.54,"end":10757.54,"text":"這是我剛提出來的請"},{"start":10757.54,"end":10759.54,"text":"莊次長這邊做完整的答覆"},{"start":10759.54,"end":10761.54,"text":"書面答覆 接下來我請"},{"start":10761.54,"end":10763.54,"text":"李坤誠委員 謝謝"},{"start":10770.31,"end":10772.31,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":10772.31,"end":10774.31,"text":"我們先請陳淑季長"},{"start":10782.02,"end":10784.02,"text":"委員好 主席長好"},{"start":10785.33,"end":10787.33,"text":"現在我們才要在"},{"start":10787.33,"end":10789.33,"text":"審查這個今年度的"},{"start":10789.33,"end":10791.33,"text":"預算 其實今年度的預算"},{"start":10791.33,"end":10793.33,"text":"應該是去年底應該就要審查了"},{"start":10793.33,"end":10795.33,"text":"你們這一次的這個"},{"start":10795.33,"end":10797.33,"text":"115年度的總預算"},{"start":10797.33,"end":10799.33,"text":"稅入是編列"},{"start":10799.33,"end":10801.33,"text":"2兆8623億"},{"start":10801.33,"end":10803.33,"text":"稅出是3兆350億"},{"start":10803.33,"end":10805.33,"text":"那是在去年"},{"start":10805.33,"end":10807.33,"text":"8月29號就送到立法院來了"},{"start":10807.33,"end":10809.33,"text":"所以超過230天"},{"start":10809.33,"end":10811.33,"text":"終於要復為審查了"},{"start":10811.33,"end":10813.33,"text":"那其實在上禮拜的時候"},{"start":10813.33,"end":10815.33,"text":"我有問過主席長"},{"start":10815.33,"end":10817.33,"text":"面對中東的戰事"},{"start":10817.33,"end":10819.33,"text":"那其實去年在編預算的時候"},{"start":10819.33,"end":10821.33,"text":"也沒有遇到"},{"start":10821.33,"end":10823.33,"text":"上次有跟主席長提到說"},{"start":10823.33,"end":10825.33,"text":"各部會"},{"start":10825.33,"end":10827.33,"text":"面對中東戰事"},{"start":10827.33,"end":10829.33,"text":"所需要的經費"},{"start":10829.33,"end":10831.33,"text":"各部會大概統籌下來"},{"start":10831.33,"end":10833.33,"text":"需要大概1292億"},{"start":10833.33,"end":10835.33,"text":"那時候我有提到說"},{"start":10835.33,"end":10837.33,"text":"是不是用特別預算的方式"},{"start":10837.33,"end":10839.33,"text":"來做處理"},{"start":10839.33,"end":10841.33,"text":"主席長那時候回答說"},{"start":10841.33,"end":10843.33,"text":"那想請教一下主席長"},{"start":10843.33,"end":10845.33,"text":"因為現在預算是"},{"start":10845.33,"end":10847.33,"text":"復為審查了"},{"start":10847.33,"end":10849.33,"text":"那應該有機會在5、6月的時候通過了"},{"start":10849.33,"end":10851.33,"text":"那所以現在院裡面的態度"},{"start":10851.33,"end":10853.33,"text":"因為的確我們還是需要"},{"start":10853.33,"end":10855.33,"text":"這一筆預算"},{"start":10855.33,"end":10857.33,"text":"那這筆預算來因應中東戰事"},{"start":10857.33,"end":10859.33,"text":"那現在院裡面的態度是"},{"start":10859.33,"end":10861.33,"text":"用特別預算還是用最佳預算的方式來做處理"},{"start":10861.96,"end":10863.96,"text":"因為目前還沒有定案"},{"start":10863.96,"end":10865.96,"text":"因為如果說特別預算"},{"start":10865.96,"end":10867.96,"text":"就要擬定特別條例先經過"},{"start":10867.96,"end":10869.96,"text":"立法院來通過"},{"start":10869.96,"end":10871.96,"text":"如果用最佳預算就是到了時間"},{"start":10871.96,"end":10873.96,"text":"直接辦最佳預算"},{"start":10873.96,"end":10875.96,"text":"那第二個呢"},{"start":10875.96,"end":10877.96,"text":"當初是提1292億"},{"start":10877.96,"end":10879.96,"text":"這個是各部會提報的數據"},{"start":10879.96,"end":10881.96,"text":"那還沒有經過他"},{"start":10881.96,"end":10883.96,"text":"整個的一個補助期間"},{"start":10883.96,"end":10885.96,"text":"或者是說單價和細減"},{"start":10885.96,"end":10887.96,"text":"去完成審查"},{"start":10887.96,"end":10889.96,"text":"但是陸陸續續"},{"start":10889.96,"end":10891.96,"text":"中有來講他除了吸收他那個價格"},{"start":10891.96,"end":10893.96,"text":"到目前為止是114億左右"},{"start":10893.96,"end":10895.96,"text":"這個部分"},{"start":10895.96,"end":10897.96,"text":"但是其他他還有吸收"},{"start":10897.96,"end":10899.96,"text":"要吸收一些成本"},{"start":10899.96,"end":10901.96,"text":"因為現在他進貨的一個成本"},{"start":10901.96,"end":10903.96,"text":"每一個貨輪他都"},{"start":10903.96,"end":10905.96,"text":"漲價漲的非常的多"},{"start":10905.96,"end":10907.96,"text":"所以這一些的成本的吸收"},{"start":10907.96,"end":10909.96,"text":"將來要怎麼樣去做"},{"start":10909.96,"end":10911.96,"text":"編列預算來給他做一些補貼"},{"start":10911.96,"end":10913.96,"text":"不然的話整個中有"},{"start":10913.96,"end":10915.96,"text":"他的一個財務狀況就會越來越壞"},{"start":10915.96,"end":10917.96,"text":"主席講的意思是說將來"},{"start":10917.96,"end":10919.96,"text":"如果不論是特別運算或是最佳運算"},{"start":10919.96,"end":10921.96,"text":"金額會比這個1292億"},{"start":10921.96,"end":10923.96,"text":"還更多就對了"},{"start":10923.96,"end":10925.96,"text":"那這要看你編列的期限是多少"},{"start":10925.96,"end":10927.96,"text":"譬如說我如果說補助剩個月"},{"start":10927.96,"end":10929.96,"text":"譬如說我有對"},{"start":10929.96,"end":10931.96,"text":"所謂的交通的部分"},{"start":10931.96,"end":10933.96,"text":"公共"},{"start":10933.96,"end":10935.96,"text":"公共那個巴士"},{"start":10935.96,"end":10937.96,"text":"或者其他的一個補貼"},{"start":10937.96,"end":10939.96,"text":"那這個部分公共運輸的一個補貼"},{"start":10939.96,"end":10941.96,"text":"那這個部分"},{"start":10941.96,"end":10943.96,"text":"他要看你補貼期間"},{"start":10943.96,"end":10945.96,"text":"的多少那因為他有一個"},{"start":10945.96,"end":10947.96,"text":"有價的上限"},{"start":10947.96,"end":10949.96,"text":"那我們現在是動漲"},{"start":10949.96,"end":10951.96,"text":"他有達到上限要補助開始補助"},{"start":10951.96,"end":10953.96,"text":"或者是說到什麼時候截止"},{"start":10953.96,"end":10955.96,"text":"或者要不要補計程車"},{"start":10955.96,"end":10957.96,"text":"或者是其他的一個相關的"},{"start":10957.96,"end":10959.96,"text":"中有的他補貼"},{"start":10959.96,"end":10961.96,"text":"的這個部分要怎麼補貼"},{"start":10961.96,"end":10963.96,"text":"台電的天然氣的部分要怎麼補貼"},{"start":10963.96,"end":10965.96,"text":"這個部分都必須要一個一個"},{"start":10965.96,"end":10967.96,"text":"去算"},{"start":10967.96,"end":10969.96,"text":"譬如說你講的經濟部或交通部或農業部"},{"start":10969.96,"end":10971.96,"text":"他們已經有一個"},{"start":10971.96,"end":10973.96,"text":"目前需要的一個數字"},{"start":10973.96,"end":10975.96,"text":"這個補貼的一些預算"},{"start":10975.96,"end":10977.96,"text":"送上去的所以你才會給我1292億"},{"start":10977.96,"end":10979.96,"text":"這個數字"},{"start":10979.96,"end":10981.96,"text":"最初期的"},{"start":10981.96,"end":10983.96,"text":"所以我才問說那如果我是"},{"start":10983.96,"end":10985.96,"text":"聽主計長這樣講那是不是"},{"start":10985.96,"end":10987.96,"text":"這個因為戰事也不知道哪時候會結束"},{"start":10987.96,"end":10989.96,"text":"聽聽打打的那所以最後"},{"start":10989.96,"end":10991.96,"text":"有可能這個數字會再比"},{"start":10991.96,"end":10993.96,"text":"這個超過這個數字1292億"},{"start":10993.96,"end":10995.96,"text":"就對了"},{"start":10995.96,"end":10997.96,"text":"也有可能啦"},{"start":10997.96,"end":10999.96,"text":"目前我們請他們陸續提報"},{"start":10999.96,"end":11001.96,"text":"但是這個部分因為像中有的話"},{"start":11001.96,"end":11003.96,"text":"它吸收的成本非常的多"},{"start":11003.96,"end":11005.96,"text":"以現在來講它的成本就是整個是"},{"start":11005.96,"end":11007.96,"text":"高漲起來將來一定要"},{"start":11007.96,"end":11009.96,"text":"做有一些的一個補貼"},{"start":11009.96,"end":11011.96,"text":"所以要用特別預算或是用最佳預算"},{"start":11011.96,"end":11013.96,"text":"都還沒有確定就對了"},{"start":11013.96,"end":11015.96,"text":"但是的確是需要這筆錢"},{"start":11015.96,"end":11017.96,"text":"這筆預算因為我們這一個"},{"start":11017.96,"end":11019.96,"text":"穩定物價或是說對於這一個"},{"start":11019.96,"end":11021.96,"text":"各行各業的補貼其實已經"},{"start":11021.96,"end":11023.96,"text":"陸陸續續在開始在做了"},{"start":11023.96,"end":11025.96,"text":"好那我再請教一下主計長"},{"start":11025.96,"end":11027.96,"text":"這個總運算副委"},{"start":11027.96,"end":11029.96,"text":"有這個附帶的條件"},{"start":11029.96,"end":11031.96,"text":"那附帶條件就是說"},{"start":11031.96,"end":11033.96,"text":"要行政院在半年內提出"},{"start":11033.96,"end":11035.96,"text":"有關軍人待遇條例"},{"start":11035.96,"end":11037.96,"text":"還有這個警察人員人事"},{"start":11037.96,"end":11039.96,"text":"條例的相關修正案"},{"start":11039.96,"end":11041.96,"text":"還有其他有關軍公教的保障"},{"start":11041.96,"end":11043.96,"text":"措施啦那我請教一下主計長"},{"start":11043.96,"end":11045.96,"text":"那當然這個目前"},{"start":11045.96,"end":11047.96,"text":"這部分我們是先"},{"start":11047.96,"end":11049.96,"text":"釋憲了啦但是因為"},{"start":11049.96,"end":11051.96,"text":"在野黨有要求然後為了這個"},{"start":11051.96,"end":11053.96,"text":"讓總運算能夠審查那所以"},{"start":11053.96,"end":11055.96,"text":"行政院這邊看起來"},{"start":11055.96,"end":11057.96,"text":"是有讓步啦就是說主院長說"},{"start":11057.96,"end":11059.96,"text":"對於這兩項的修正案"},{"start":11059.96,"end":11061.96,"text":"還有軍公教整體待遇"},{"start":11061.96,"end":11063.96,"text":"調整的想法應該還可以"},{"start":11063.96,"end":11065.96,"text":"有加強的地方"},{"start":11065.96,"end":11067.96,"text":"更符合國軍的照顧也照顧到國家"},{"start":11067.96,"end":11069.96,"text":"財政的紀律也符合憲政的精神"},{"start":11069.96,"end":11071.96,"text":"請問一下主計長"},{"start":11071.96,"end":11073.96,"text":"那這個要怎麼做因為"},{"start":11073.96,"end":11075.96,"text":"看起來就是要在做一家運算了"},{"start":11075.96,"end":11077.96,"text":"不然你們去年就是沒有這筆運算"},{"start":11079.83,"end":11081.83,"text":"這個部分我要跟委員報告"},{"start":11081.83,"end":11083.83,"text":"院長有指示就是"},{"start":11083.83,"end":11085.83,"text":"未來要將以體制健全"},{"start":11085.83,"end":11087.83,"text":"法治完備還有公平"},{"start":11087.83,"end":11089.83,"text":"和平還有財政永續"},{"start":11089.83,"end":11091.83,"text":"對對對這我知道"},{"start":11091.83,"end":11093.83,"text":"四大原則來做整個檢討"},{"start":11093.83,"end":11095.83,"text":"整體軍公教的一個待遇"},{"start":11095.83,"end":11097.83,"text":"那所以這個部分呢"},{"start":11097.83,"end":11099.83,"text":"就是不管是在公平性"},{"start":11099.83,"end":11101.83,"text":"和平性還有財政永續的"},{"start":11101.83,"end":11103.83,"text":"基礎上是要怎麼樣"},{"start":11103.83,"end":11105.83,"text":"那人種還有跟相關"},{"start":11105.83,"end":11107.83,"text":"有一些政務委員都一直在開會"},{"start":11107.83,"end":11109.83,"text":"在模擬這個整個相關的一個"},{"start":11109.83,"end":11111.83,"text":"我的意思是說"},{"start":11111.83,"end":11113.83,"text":"這個四個條件"},{"start":11113.83,"end":11115.83,"text":"那最後要完備"},{"start":11115.83,"end":11117.83,"text":"但是呢你要符合"},{"start":11117.83,"end":11119.83,"text":"這個比如說在野黨他們的要求"},{"start":11119.83,"end":11121.83,"text":"那我看起來就是最後"},{"start":11121.83,"end":11123.83,"text":"你必須要用最佳運算的方式來做處理"},{"start":11123.83,"end":11125.83,"text":"因為你去年沒有"},{"start":11125.83,"end":11127.83,"text":"編這些運算對不對"},{"start":11127.83,"end":11129.83,"text":"你是講說軍公教緊銷或是說"},{"start":11129.83,"end":11131.83,"text":"整體的這個"},{"start":11131.83,"end":11133.83,"text":"公務人員待遇的調整"},{"start":11133.83,"end":11135.83,"text":"那看起來就是要再追加一筆運算"},{"start":11135.83,"end":11137.83,"text":"我們會看將來的一個"},{"start":11137.83,"end":11139.83,"text":"討論出來的一個結果"},{"start":11139.83,"end":11141.83,"text":"我們來做那個"},{"start":11141.83,"end":11143.83,"text":"整個一個裁員的研議"},{"start":11144.27,"end":11146.27,"text":"對啊"},{"start":11146.27,"end":11148.27,"text":"我的意思是說啦因為你不可能"},{"start":11148.27,"end":11150.27,"text":"沒有回應嘛"},{"start":11150.27,"end":11152.27,"text":"你有回應的話"},{"start":11152.27,"end":11154.27,"text":"這筆運算在去年你們編的時候根本就沒有啊"},{"start":11154.27,"end":11156.27,"text":"那到最後還是要用最佳運算的方式"},{"start":11156.27,"end":11158.27,"text":"來做處理啦"},{"start":11158.27,"end":11160.27,"text":"有點像是去年的這個進發補償"},{"start":11160.27,"end":11162.27,"text":"條例的方式了啦"},{"start":11162.27,"end":11164.27,"text":"我們必須要看整個實施的日期"},{"start":11164.27,"end":11166.27,"text":"因為院長要裁定說實施的日期"},{"start":11166.27,"end":11168.27,"text":"看實施的日期到底是什麼時候"},{"start":11168.27,"end":11170.27,"text":"然後來確定說"},{"start":11170.27,"end":11172.27,"text":"第一個我們的裁員"},{"start":11172.27,"end":11174.27,"text":"實施的日期有可能比如說明年"},{"start":11174.27,"end":11176.27,"text":"那就是"},{"start":11175.44,"end":11177.44,"text":"弄在這個明年的預算就對了"},{"start":11177.44,"end":11179.44,"text":"這也是一種方式就對了"},{"start":11179.44,"end":11181.44,"text":"那你們現在編概算了吧"},{"start":11181.44,"end":11183.44,"text":"現在編明年的概算了"},{"start":11183.44,"end":11185.44,"text":"對不對"},{"start":11185.44,"end":11187.44,"text":"所以應該就把這筆運算把它想進去了嘛"},{"start":11187.59,"end":11189.59,"text":"現在目前還沒有金額"},{"start":11189.59,"end":11191.59,"text":"因為現在討論的一個"},{"start":11191.59,"end":11193.59,"text":"還沒有定案"},{"start":11193.59,"end":11195.59,"text":"這個一直在"},{"start":11195.59,"end":11197.59,"text":"人種一直在提方式"},{"start":11197.59,"end":11199.59,"text":"跟一些相關的單位"},{"start":11199.59,"end":11201.59,"text":"來做討論"},{"start":11201.59,"end":11203.59,"text":"那我的意思是說"},{"start":11203.59,"end":11205.59,"text":"似乎就是可能要用這一個"},{"start":11205.59,"end":11207.59,"text":"行政院自己提"},{"start":11207.59,"end":11209.59,"text":"不管是條例的一些調整"},{"start":11209.59,"end":11211.59,"text":"或是說我們自己主動提到"},{"start":11211.59,"end":11213.59,"text":"說如何再讓這個軍工較勁"},{"start":11213.59,"end":11215.59,"text":"這個待運能夠再增加"},{"start":11215.59,"end":11217.59,"text":"那"},{"start":11216.97,"end":11218.97,"text":"那一定最後是提到錢的問題嘛"},{"start":11218.97,"end":11220.97,"text":"就是預算啊"},{"start":11220.97,"end":11222.97,"text":"那看起來"},{"start":11222.97,"end":11224.97,"text":"如果說是在明年實施"},{"start":11224.97,"end":11226.97,"text":"那當然就是屬於明年的預算啦"},{"start":11226.97,"end":11228.97,"text":"那可能今年就不一定用最佳預算的方式來做處理了啦"},{"start":11228.97,"end":11230.97,"text":"大概是這個方式嘛是不是"},{"start":11231.45,"end":11233.45,"text":"好OK謝謝主席長"},{"start":11233.45,"end":11235.45,"text":"那我請這個財政部"},{"start":11235.45,"end":11237.45,"text":"今天是阮市長來嗎"},{"start":11237.45,"end":11239.45,"text":"還是誰 市長"},{"start":11242.96,"end":11244.96,"text":"那你邊走我邊問啦"},{"start":11245.95,"end":11247.95,"text":"這個"},{"start":11248.14,"end":11250.14,"text":"2025年"},{"start":11250.14,"end":11252.14,"text":"按照你們的資料"},{"start":11252.14,"end":11254.14,"text":"全國的賦稅的收入是"},{"start":11254.14,"end":11256.14,"text":"3兆7879億"},{"start":11256.14,"end":11258.14,"text":"創歷史新高"},{"start":11258.14,"end":11260.14,"text":"連續5年呈現"},{"start":11260.14,"end":11262.14,"text":"正成長"},{"start":11262.14,"end":11264.14,"text":"然後高出預算數最多其實就是"},{"start":11264.14,"end":11266.14,"text":"證交稅啦"},{"start":11266.14,"end":11268.14,"text":"證交稅這個超出預算數"},{"start":11268.14,"end":11270.14,"text":"234億"},{"start":11270.14,"end":11272.14,"text":"其實是遺產稅"},{"start":11272.14,"end":11274.14,"text":"但是呢看起來"},{"start":11274.14,"end":11276.14,"text":"我們的稅率是"},{"start":11276.14,"end":11278.14,"text":"增加的"},{"start":11277.5,"end":11279.5,"text":"但是呢"},{"start":11279.5,"end":11281.5,"text":"這也是從這個從2021年來"},{"start":11281.5,"end":11283.5,"text":"首次出現的短徵"},{"start":11283.5,"end":11285.5,"text":"跟預算數相比"},{"start":11285.5,"end":11287.5,"text":"去年的時徵的進額"},{"start":11287.5,"end":11289.5,"text":"較預算數短少了143億元"},{"start":11289.5,"end":11291.5,"text":"那請教一下"},{"start":11291.5,"end":11293.5,"text":"市長"},{"start":11293.79,"end":11295.79,"text":"我們的賦稅收入增加"},{"start":11295.79,"end":11297.79,"text":"但是呢實際上有短徵"},{"start":11297.79,"end":11299.79,"text":"那短徵原因在哪裡"},{"start":11298.9,"end":11300.9,"text":"其實我覺得最主要"},{"start":11300.9,"end":11302.9,"text":"最主要因為"},{"start":11302.9,"end":11304.9,"text":"呃"},{"start":11304.69,"end":11306.69,"text":"市長"},{"start":11306.69,"end":11308.69,"text":"最主要是因為他去年"},{"start":11308.69,"end":11310.69,"text":"就是我們在去年結算申報的時候"},{"start":11310.69,"end":11312.69,"text":"前一年的時候我們是有"},{"start":11312.69,"end":11314.69,"text":"給他分期或者延期申報"},{"start":11315.98,"end":11317.98,"text":"那到這個去年"},{"start":11317.98,"end":11319.98,"text":"申報"},{"start":11319.98,"end":11321.98,"text":"申報的時候"},{"start":11321.98,"end":11323.98,"text":"他就整個要補回來"},{"start":11323.98,"end":11325.98,"text":"所以基本上我們"},{"start":11325.98,"end":11327.98,"text":"雖然是說有一點"},{"start":11327.98,"end":11329.98,"text":"就是說時針數比預算數"},{"start":11329.98,"end":11331.98,"text":"要少一點但是少非常小"},{"start":11331.98,"end":11333.98,"text":"就是在1%以內"},{"start":11333.98,"end":11335.98,"text":"非常精準所以我們去年"},{"start":11335.98,"end":11337.98,"text":"的這個預算數的"},{"start":11337.98,"end":11339.98,"text":"是非常精準的"},{"start":11339.98,"end":11341.98,"text":"沒有啦你們算是那個"},{"start":11341.98,"end":11343.98,"text":"證交稅就不精準啦"},{"start":11343.98,"end":11345.98,"text":"一來一往就差了快400億耶"},{"start":11345.98,"end":11347.98,"text":"你們是"},{"start":11347.98,"end":11349.98,"text":"你們本來還簡列喔"},{"start":11349.98,"end":11351.98,"text":"你們簡列100本來是編"},{"start":11351.98,"end":11353.98,"text":"2500億簡列了"},{"start":11353.98,"end":11355.98,"text":"193億但是呢"},{"start":11355.98,"end":11357.98,"text":"實際上呢超出預算數"},{"start":11357.98,"end":11359.98,"text":"是234億這我是說"},{"start":11359.98,"end":11361.98,"text":"一來一往就400億了這"},{"start":11361.98,"end":11363.98,"text":"這部分就不精準了啊"},{"start":11363.98,"end":11365.98,"text":"有時候是這樣啦稅收"},{"start":11365.98,"end":11367.98,"text":"我們編制到這個執行"},{"start":11367.98,"end":11369.98,"text":"真的是有一個落差"},{"start":11369.98,"end":11371.98,"text":"真的是很難掌握啦"},{"start":11371.98,"end":11373.98,"text":"不過就去年來講"},{"start":11373.98,"end":11375.98,"text":"我們也不清楚"},{"start":11375.98,"end":11377.98,"text":"所以我是覺得說"},{"start":11377.98,"end":11379.98,"text":"時針數達到"},{"start":11379.98,"end":11381.98,"text":"這個預算數大概99%點"},{"start":11381.98,"end":11383.98,"text":"幾也就是說差距"},{"start":11383.98,"end":11385.98,"text":"真的非常小"},{"start":11385.98,"end":11387.98,"text":"有時候有些稅務是多的"},{"start":11387.98,"end":11389.98,"text":"那我再問一下啦"},{"start":11389.98,"end":11391.98,"text":"因為這是其實是今年度"},{"start":11391.98,"end":11393.98,"text":"預算在這邊討論喔因為"},{"start":11393.98,"end":11395.98,"text":"你們去年收多少今年都已經知道了嘛"},{"start":11395.98,"end":11397.98,"text":"對對對那明年度"},{"start":11397.98,"end":11399.98,"text":"的預算呢"},{"start":11399.98,"end":11401.98,"text":"我是說在證交稅這方面"},{"start":11401.98,"end":11403.98,"text":"那明年度可能是9月之後的事情"},{"start":11403.98,"end":11405.98,"text":"那但是我就是要"},{"start":11405.98,"end":11407.98,"text":"請教一下因為目前看起來"},{"start":11407.98,"end":11409.98,"text":"股市是蠻熱的"},{"start":11409.98,"end":11411.98,"text":"然後呢我看你們第一季的這一個"},{"start":11411.98,"end":11413.98,"text":"報告喔"},{"start":11413.67,"end":11415.67,"text":"證交稅是連續8個月"},{"start":11415.67,"end":11417.67,"text":"維持政成長了"},{"start":11417.67,"end":11419.67,"text":"是是"},{"start":11420.59,"end":11422.59,"text":"現在在估明年的這一個"},{"start":11422.59,"end":11424.59,"text":"這個預算數還有這一個"},{"start":11424.59,"end":11426.59,"text":"這個證交稅這方面的話"},{"start":11426.59,"end":11428.59,"text":"應該是不至於在低估了吧"},{"start":11428.59,"end":11430.59,"text":"其實我覺得"},{"start":11430.59,"end":11432.59,"text":"這個國際政經情勢"},{"start":11432.59,"end":11434.59,"text":"這個變動非常的"},{"start":11434.59,"end":11436.59,"text":"快速啦"},{"start":11436.59,"end":11438.59,"text":"有時候還很難說現在"},{"start":11438.59,"end":11440.59,"text":"說得準啦"},{"start":11440.59,"end":11442.59,"text":"風雨飄而的時間"},{"start":11442.59,"end":11444.59,"text":"台灣都屹立不搖了"},{"start":11444.59,"end":11446.59,"text":"在東東戰事轉期間"},{"start":11446.59,"end":11448.59,"text":"這個股市這個跌跌漲漲"},{"start":11448.59,"end":11450.59,"text":"台股還是"},{"start":11450.59,"end":11452.59,"text":"我看今天本來有到3萬8"},{"start":11452.59,"end":11454.59,"text":"對但是後來還是會掉下來"},{"start":11454.59,"end":11456.59,"text":"對我的意思是說"},{"start":11456.59,"end":11458.59,"text":"因為第一季"},{"start":11458.59,"end":11460.59,"text":"其實你們時針數是有增加的啦"},{"start":11460.59,"end":11462.59,"text":"我是希望說你們在預估"},{"start":11462.59,"end":11464.59,"text":"這個證交稅這方面的話"},{"start":11464.59,"end":11466.59,"text":"能夠再估準一點"},{"start":11466.59,"end":11468.59,"text":"不然你們這一個"},{"start":11468.59,"end":11470.59,"text":"去年你們認為說今年這一個股市"},{"start":11470.59,"end":11472.59,"text":"沒有那麼熱還減劣"},{"start":11472.59,"end":11474.59,"text":"減劣了證交稅實際上沒有"},{"start":11474.59,"end":11476.59,"text":"還增加到200多億啊"},{"start":11476.59,"end":11478.59,"text":"林市長請林市長報告一下"},{"start":11478.59,"end":11480.59,"text":"我們從今年第一季"},{"start":11480.59,"end":11482.59,"text":"第一季我們就是全國數來講"},{"start":11482.59,"end":11484.59,"text":"比上年同期大概"},{"start":11484.59,"end":11486.59,"text":"增加10145億"},{"start":11486.59,"end":11488.59,"text":"但是就中央來講"},{"start":11488.59,"end":11490.59,"text":"中央其實是少了"},{"start":11490.59,"end":11492.59,"text":"這個353億"},{"start":11492.59,"end":11494.59,"text":"因為財務法的關係"},{"start":11494.59,"end":11496.59,"text":"對這我知道"},{"start":11496.59,"end":11498.59,"text":"對這我知道"},{"start":11498.59,"end":11500.59,"text":"請市長用書面做回覆"},{"start":11500.59,"end":11502.59,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":11502.59,"end":11504.59,"text":"待會再請林市長"},{"start":11504.59,"end":11506.59,"text":"林市長請林市長"},{"start":11506.59,"end":11508.59,"text":"我們待會開放12點開放現場"},{"start":11508.59,"end":11510.59,"text":"可以使用便當喔"},{"start":11510.59,"end":11512.59,"text":"那請林市長謝謝"},{"start":11521.35,"end":11523.35,"text":"好謝謝主席"},{"start":11523.35,"end":11525.35,"text":"我請農業部的胡市長"},{"start":11525.35,"end":11527.35,"text":"還有衛福部莊市長"},{"start":11527.35,"end":11529.35,"text":"還有衛福部莊市長"},{"start":11538.68,"end":11540.68,"text":"好兩位市長好"},{"start":11541.9,"end":11543.9,"text":"我先請教胡市長"},{"start":11543.9,"end":11545.9,"text":"是"},{"start":11545.9,"end":11547.9,"text":"請問我們使用馬鈴薯輸入的檢疫條件"},{"start":11547.9,"end":11551.9,"text":"農業部在107年的相關規定是怎麼樣"},{"start":11551.9,"end":11555.9,"text":"對於這些發芽的馬鈴薯"},{"start":11555.9,"end":11557.9,"text":"是不是可以輸入"},{"start":11557.9,"end":11559.9,"text":"在輸入的部分"},{"start":11559.9,"end":11561.9,"text":"我們農業部是做三項檢疫的工作"},{"start":11561.9,"end":11563.9,"text":"第一個你如果帶土的話"},{"start":11563.9,"end":11565.9,"text":"時間的關係"},{"start":11565.9,"end":11567.9,"text":"我問你107年的規定是怎麼樣"},{"start":11567.9,"end":11569.9,"text":"是就是這三項我們檢疫的部分"},{"start":11569.9,"end":11573.9,"text":"帶土的或者是有8種病害的病蟲害的"},{"start":11573.9,"end":11575.9,"text":"還有發芽超過0.5公分"},{"start":11575.9,"end":11577.9,"text":"這三項是我們檢疫的"},{"start":11577.9,"end":11579.9,"text":"5毫米以上的芽體就不得輸入嘛"},{"start":11579.9,"end":11581.9,"text":"對所以這個要全部退運"},{"start":11581.9,"end":11583.9,"text":"或者是銷毀"},{"start":11583.9,"end":11585.9,"text":"市長我請問你"},{"start":11585.9,"end":11587.9,"text":"當時的規定為什麼這樣規定"},{"start":11588.66,"end":11590.66,"text":"因為帶土的話"},{"start":11590.66,"end":11592.66,"text":"我們現在不會問你帶土的"},{"start":11592.66,"end":11594.66,"text":"問你發芽的"},{"start":11594.66,"end":11596.66,"text":"因為發芽的部分有可能"},{"start":11596.66,"end":11598.66,"text":"它會流入市面會去種"},{"start":11598.66,"end":11600.66,"text":"會中毒嗎"},{"start":11600.66,"end":11602.66,"text":"不是中毒是會去種"},{"start":11602.66,"end":11604.66,"text":"種在田裡面"},{"start":11604.66,"end":11606.66,"text":"吃了會怎麼樣"},{"start":11606.66,"end":11608.66,"text":"吃的是食藥署他們所主管的"},{"start":11608.66,"end":11610.66,"text":"所以你不管吃的問題"},{"start":11610.66,"end":11612.66,"text":"對對對我們是負責檢驗的"},{"start":11612.24,"end":11614.24,"text":"包委員就是有關這個"},{"start":11614.24,"end":11618.24,"text":"如果一旦農業部有開了發芽的部分"},{"start":11618.24,"end":11620.24,"text":"它會剔除啦但是我們針對那個"},{"start":11620.24,"end":11622.24,"text":"他們那一批沒有發芽我們會去驗"},{"start":11622.24,"end":11624.24,"text":"如果驗出農口菸超過200ppm"},{"start":11624.24,"end":11626.24,"text":"我們整批都會退運"},{"start":11627.37,"end":11629.37,"text":"市長我問你"},{"start":11629.37,"end":11631.37,"text":"我現在問你"},{"start":11631.37,"end":11633.37,"text":"你現在答對所問"},{"start":11633.37,"end":11635.37,"text":"吃了這些發芽的馬鈴薯"},{"start":11635.37,"end":11637.37,"text":"有可能有什麼後遺症"},{"start":11637.37,"end":11639.37,"text":"會不會中毒"},{"start":11639.37,"end":11641.37,"text":"你從一些的角度"},{"start":11641.37,"end":11643.37,"text":"我們就不建議發芽"},{"start":11643.37,"end":11645.37,"text":"就不建議吃"},{"start":11645.37,"end":11647.37,"text":"吃了會有什麼後遺症"},{"start":11647.37,"end":11649.37,"text":"會有什麼後果"},{"start":11649.37,"end":11651.37,"text":"可以跟大家分享一下嗎"},{"start":11651.37,"end":11653.37,"text":"有什麼後果"},{"start":11653.37,"end":11655.37,"text":"如果吃了"},{"start":11655.37,"end":11657.37,"text":"會造成身體什麼樣的不適嗎"},{"start":11657.37,"end":11659.37,"text":"因為你建議不要吃"},{"st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那請問"},{"start":12781,"end":12783,"text":"那個"},{"start":12782.8,"end":12784.8,"text":"署長"},{"start":12784.68,"end":12786.68,"text":"快遞進來的東西如果裡面有"},{"start":12786.68,"end":12788.68,"text":"夾有一包一包的"},{"start":12788.68,"end":12790.68,"text":"那個薯餅"},{"start":12791.53,"end":12793.53,"text":"只要沒有生爆"},{"start":12793.53,"end":12795.53,"text":"炸薯條"},{"start":12795.53,"end":12797.53,"text":"薯條三兄弟啦"},{"start":12797.15,"end":12799.15,"text":"如果從那邊進來"},{"start":12799.05,"end":12801.05,"text":"那你也查不到啊"},{"start":12801.05,"end":12803.05,"text":"報告立委"},{"start":12802.75,"end":12804.75,"text":"我們的是陰屍檢疫項目"},{"start":12804.75,"end":12806.75,"text":"那炸薯條"},{"start":12806.75,"end":12808.75,"text":"它不是陰屍檢疫項目"},{"start":12810.36,"end":12812.36,"text":"我們所有的都是檢疫的項目"},{"start":12812.36,"end":12814.36,"text":"那以現在進來來講"},{"start":12814.36,"end":12816.36,"text":"其實生鮮一年大概"},{"start":12816.36,"end":12818.36,"text":"2.7噸"},{"start":12818.36,"end":12820.36,"text":"那主要是涉及病蟲害跟帶土"},{"start":12820.36,"end":12822.36,"text":"那其他一年進口的"},{"start":12822.36,"end":12824.36,"text":"15噸它包括有冷凍進來"},{"start":12824.36,"end":12826.36,"text":"有調製進來"},{"start":12826.36,"end":12828.36,"text":"那這些有的是做馬鈴薯泥"},{"start":12828.36,"end":12830.36,"text":"馬鈴薯澱粉甚至於做"},{"start":12830.36,"end":12832.36,"text":"其他的用途"},{"start":12832.36,"end":12834.36,"text":"對 那這個是整個"},{"start":12834.36,"end":12836.36,"text":"跟關稅跟食品"},{"start":12836.36,"end":12838.36,"text":"比較有相關"},{"start":12838.36,"end":12840.36,"text":"所以郭署長"},{"start":12840.36,"end":12842.36,"text":"你的意思就是說"},{"start":12842.36,"end":12844.36,"text":"你們一共有100多個人"},{"start":12846.46,"end":12848.46,"text":"然後"},{"start":12847.86,"end":12849.86,"text":"要我們國人來相信你"},{"start":12849.86,"end":12851.86,"text":"100個多人"},{"start":12851.86,"end":12853.86,"text":"可以把這個防護"},{"start":12853.86,"end":12855.86,"text":"做得滴水不漏"},{"start":12855.86,"end":12857.86,"text":"不會有發芽的馬鈴薯進來"},{"start":12857.86,"end":12859.86,"text":"來干擾民眾的健康問題"},{"start":12859.86,"end":12861.86,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":12861.86,"end":12863.86,"text":"這是我們的職責"},{"start":12863.86,"end":12865.86,"text":"我們一定要全力以赴"},{"start":12865.86,"end":12867.86,"text":"那另外跟你報告"},{"start":12867.86,"end":12869.86,"text":"非洲豬瘟的時候"},{"start":12869.86,"end":12871.86,"text":"那個剛剛講的手檢區"},{"start":12871.86,"end":12873.86,"text":"也是我們負責的"},{"start":12873.86,"end":12875.86,"text":"所以我們也都是這樣子在進行"},{"start":12875.86,"end":12877.86,"text":"你講的很辛苦"},{"start":12877.86,"end":12879.86,"text":"你也講的很認真"},{"start":12879.86,"end":12881.86,"text":"可是你要叫國人"},{"start":12881.86,"end":12883.86,"text":"怎麼樣相信"},{"start":12883.86,"end":12885.86,"text":"那成堆成山的馬鈴薯"},{"start":12885.86,"end":12887.86,"text":"然後有你們100多人"},{"start":12887.86,"end":12889.86,"text":"在把關"},{"start":12889.86,"end":12891.86,"text":"然後不會出問題"},{"start":12891.86,"end":12893.86,"text":"報告委員剛剛我們"},{"start":12893.86,"end":12895.86,"text":"這個次長也有講"},{"start":12895.86,"end":12897.86,"text":"以去年114年為例"},{"start":12897.86,"end":12899.86,"text":"那他的不合格率"},{"start":12899.86,"end":12901.86,"text":"只有0.6"},{"start":12901.86,"end":12903.86,"text":"也就是說合格的部分"},{"start":12903.86,"end":12905.86,"text":"都可以通關"},{"start":12905.86,"end":12907.86,"text":"但不合格的部分"},{"start":12907.86,"end":12909.86,"text":"我們就會專批"},{"start":12909.86,"end":12911.86,"text":"然後送達指定的地點"},{"start":12911.86,"end":12913.86,"text":"那會提改善計畫"},{"start":12913.86,"end":12915.86,"text":"那在嚴格的要求之下"},{"start":12915.86,"end":12917.86,"text":"那這個區域"},{"start":12917.86,"end":12919.86,"text":"會等同或比照"},{"start":12919.86,"end":12921.86,"text":"我們是喔"},{"start":12921.86,"end":12923.86,"text":"的監督之下"},{"start":12923.86,"end":12925.86,"text":"足跪足批足科來做篩檢"},{"start":12925.86,"end":12927.86,"text":"足科啊"},{"start":12927.86,"end":12929.86,"text":"原則就是這樣"},{"start":12930.27,"end":12932.27,"text":"對在加工廠的時候"},{"start":12932.27,"end":12934.27,"text":"我們的原則就是這樣"},{"start":12934.27,"end":12936.27,"text":"足科的意思就是說"},{"start":12936.27,"end":12938.27,"text":"不是新竹那個足科"},{"start":12938.27,"end":12940.27,"text":"足科的意思是說"},{"start":12940.27,"end":12942.27,"text":"一顆一顆要檢查"},{"start":12942.27,"end":12944.27,"text":"是我們覺得監督業者"},{"start":12944.27,"end":12946.27,"text":"來做這件事情"},{"start":12946.27,"end":12948.27,"text":"你講的話說得很漂亮"},{"start":12948.27,"end":12950.27,"text":"不是這個做是一定要做的"},{"start":12950.27,"end":12952.27,"text":"你一顆一顆"},{"start":12952.27,"end":12954.27,"text":"很難想像"},{"start":12954.27,"end":12956.27,"text":"你這100多人"},{"start":12956.27,"end":12958.27,"text":"成千山萬顆"},{"start":12958.27,"end":12960.27,"text":"他的身體是一批一批進來的"},{"start":12960.27,"end":12962.27,"text":"那一批一批進來"},{"start":12962.27,"end":12964.27,"text":"以我們現在在於"},{"start":12964.27,"end":12966.27,"text":"邊境的檢驗"},{"start":12966.27,"end":12968.27,"text":"其實也是如此"},{"start":12968.27,"end":12970.27,"text":"整個的他的沙網"},{"start":12970.27,"end":12972.27,"text":"頓帶的時候"},{"start":12972.27,"end":12974.27,"text":"也是這樣子來檢疫的"},{"start":12974.27,"end":12976.27,"text":"你們有沒有檢討過"},{"start":12975.72,"end":12977.72,"text":"到底是誰是那個"},{"start":12978.44,"end":12980.44,"text":"Troublemaker"},{"start":12980.92,"end":12982.92,"text":"以前就沒有這個事情"},{"start":12982.92,"end":12984.92,"text":"為什麼現在如臨大敵"},{"start":12984.92,"end":12986.92,"text":"然後把一顆馬鈴薯"},{"start":12986.92,"end":12988.92,"text":"變成是大家覺得是"},{"start":12988.92,"end":12990.92,"text":"健康危害的一個"},{"start":12990.92,"end":12992.92,"text":"一個首惡"},{"start":12993.03,"end":12995.03,"text":"然後我剛舉那個例子"},{"start":12995.03,"end":12997.03,"text":"你講得很認真"},{"start":12997.03,"end":12999.03,"text":"哪一天有個小朋友"},{"start":12999.03,"end":13001.03,"text":"被虐同然後結果"},{"start":13001.03,"end":13003.03,"text":"結果"},{"start":13002.2,"end":13004.2,"text":"智商變差"},{"start":13004.2,"end":13006.2,"text":"或者身體出了狀況"},{"start":13006.2,"end":13008.2,"text":"原因就是為他吃有毒的馬鈴薯"},{"start":13008.2,"end":13010.2,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":13010.2,"end":13012.2,"text":"那怎麼辦"},{"start":13012.2,"end":13014.2,"text":"我想就有兩個層次"},{"start":13014.2,"end":13016.2,"text":"第一個美方進來的時候"},{"start":13016.2,"end":13018.2,"text":"就要把關三千"},{"start":13018.2,"end":13020.2,"text":"到我們這裡也是一樣"},{"start":13020.2,"end":13022.2,"text":"會嚴格把關"},{"start":13022.2,"end":13024.2,"text":"我們一定不會讓有不合格的"},{"start":13024.2,"end":13026.2,"text":"流入到"},{"start":13026.2,"end":13028.2,"text":"要我們相信100多個人"},{"start":13028.2,"end":13030.2,"text":"相信你講的話"},{"start":13030.2,"end":13032.2,"text":"謝謝我們羅明財委員的質詢"},{"start":13032.2,"end":13034.2,"text":"接下來請郭國文委員"},{"start":13038.41,"end":13040.41,"text":"謝謝主席有請農業部跟衛福"},{"start":13040.41,"end":13042.41,"text":"那個財政部的代表"},{"start":13046.44,"end":13048.44,"text":"那接著是主席長"},{"start":13049.33,"end":13051.33,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":13050.47,"end":13052.47,"text":"次長"},{"start":13052.47,"end":13054.47,"text":"為什麼每次講到這種有爭議性的議題"},{"start":13054.47,"end":13056.47,"text":"相關的單位講話"},{"start":13056.47,"end":13058.47,"text":"都像公文一樣"},{"start":13058.47,"end":13060.47,"text":"就不會用白話文的語言"},{"start":13060.47,"end":13062.47,"text":"怎麼講都講民眾聽不懂的語言"},{"start":13062.47,"end":13064.47,"text":"到底出了什麼狀況"},{"start":13065.11,"end":13067.11,"text":"民眾聽不懂"},{"start":13067.11,"end":13069.11,"text":"對啊"},{"start":13069.11,"end":13071.11,"text":"所以說一個馬鈴薯的事情"},{"start":13071.11,"end":13073.11,"text":"搞到變成馬鈴薯之亂"},{"start":13073.64,"end":13075.64,"text":"我需要問一下嗎"},{"start":13075.26,"end":13077.26,"text":"那個進口檢疫是財政部是不是"},{"start":13077.26,"end":13079.26,"text":"還是衛福部"},{"start":13079.26,"end":13081.26,"text":"還是你們防檢局"},{"start":13082.62,"end":13084.62,"text":"檢疫的部分"},{"start":13084.62,"end":13086.62,"text":"是我們負責"},{"start":13086.62,"end":13088.62,"text":"有沒有放寬"},{"start":13088.62,"end":13090.62,"text":"標準有沒有放寬"},{"start":13090.62,"end":13092.62,"text":"那我再問一下檢驗的比例"},{"start":13092.62,"end":13094.62,"text":"有沒有放寬"},{"start":13094.62,"end":13096.62,"text":"這兩個就重點"},{"start":13096.62,"end":13098.62,"text":"這兩個重點講清楚就好了"},{"start":13098.62,"end":13100.62,"text":"好不好"},{"start":13100.62,"end":13102.62,"text":"那次長請回"},{"start":13102.62,"end":13104.62,"text":"那我再問一下衛福部"},{"start":13104.62,"end":13106.62,"text":"衛福部最近有一個洗產地的"},{"start":13106.62,"end":13108.62,"text":"這個高雄市議員"},{"start":13108.62,"end":13110.62,"text":"邱于萱的老公"},{"start":13110.62,"end":13112.62,"text":"是大發食材行"},{"start":13112.62,"end":13114.62,"text":"分別進口中國跟越南進來的"},{"start":13114.62,"end":13116.62,"text":"芝麻跟香菇"},{"start":13116.62,"end":13118.62,"text":"更惡劣的他們是用"},{"start":13118.62,"end":13120.62,"text":"貼為台灣的產地的標籤"},{"start":13120.62,"end":13122.62,"text":"這明顯洗產地"},{"start":13122.62,"end":13124.62,"text":"賣給高雄的學童來吃"},{"start":13124.62,"end":13126.62,"text":"還怪法規誤導"},{"start":13127.22,"end":13129.22,"text":"次長"},{"start":13129.22,"end":13131.22,"text":"這件事情有沒有裁罰"},{"start":13131.22,"end":13133.22,"text":"有這個部分"},{"start":13133.22,"end":13135.22,"text":"溫馳已經罰8萬了"},{"start":13135.22,"end":13137.22,"text":"還沒有發生這已經發生了"},{"start":13137.22,"end":13139.22,"text":"對溫馳已經裁罰8萬"},{"start":13139.22,"end":13141.22,"text":"另外因為涉刑法詐欺"},{"start":13141.22,"end":13143.22,"text":"所以已經移送檢調"},{"start":13143.22,"end":13145.22,"text":"那我會繼續"},{"start":13145.22,"end":13147.22,"text":"議員的壓力就把它蓋下來吧"},{"start":13147.22,"end":13149.22,"text":"沒有目前已經送檢調了"},{"start":13149.22,"end":13151.22,"text":"這已經是發生了事實"},{"start":13151.22,"end":13153.22,"text":"這才是要"},{"start":13153.22,"end":13155.22,"text":"大力去裁罰的事情"},{"start":13155.22,"end":13157.22,"text":"同樣食安問題"},{"start":13157.22,"end":13159.22,"text":"怎麼會有兩種標準"},{"start":13159.22,"end":13161.22,"text":"實在非常奇怪"},{"start":13161.22,"end":13163.22,"text":"我們請衛福部先回去一下"},{"start":13163.22,"end":13165.22,"text":"財政部也先回去一下"},{"start":13165.22,"end":13167.22,"text":"我請主計長"},{"start":13168.65,"end":13170.65,"text":"次長"},{"start":13171.57,"end":13173.57,"text":"主計長 那個腫瘀酸終於開始省了"},{"start":13173.57,"end":13175.57,"text":"這大概破天荒"},{"start":13175.57,"end":13177.57,"text":"最快你覺得刪除的時候"},{"start":13177.57,"end":13179.57,"text":"大約什麼時候"},{"start":13179.48,"end":13181.48,"text":"上一次的紀錄是6月15日刪除"},{"start":13181.48,"end":13183.48,"text":"隔一年"},{"start":13183.48,"end":13185.48,"text":"你就判斷一下"},{"start":13185.36,"end":13187.36,"text":"這我們希望是盡快能夠"},{"start":13187.36,"end":13189.36,"text":"盡快大約嘛 你心裡頭要一個譜嘛"},{"start":13190.37,"end":13192.37,"text":"如果初估這樣"},{"start":13192.37,"end":13194.37,"text":"應該至少是要在6月下旬"},{"start":13194.37,"end":13196.37,"text":"大概多少"},{"start":13196.37,"end":13198.37,"text":"6月中下旬吧"},{"start":13198.37,"end":13200.37,"text":"就可以刪除省完了"},{"start":13198.86,"end":13200.86,"text":"我們希望如此"},{"start":13200.86,"end":13202.86,"text":"那6月中下旬是你現在的期待"},{"start":13202.86,"end":13204.86,"text":"那也希望啦"},{"start":13204.86,"end":13206.86,"text":"但是如果是這樣子的話"},{"start":13206.86,"end":13208.86,"text":"牽扯到一個問題"},{"start":13208.86,"end":13210.86,"text":"執行率的部分怎麼辦"},{"start":13210.86,"end":13212.86,"text":"有沒有掌握"},{"start":13212.74,"end":13214.74,"text":"會不會你到時候執行率就出問題"},{"start":13214.74,"end":13216.74,"text":"那明年的這個立法機關立法院"},{"start":13216.74,"end":13218.74,"text":"又說執行率不加給你砍預算"},{"start":13218.74,"end":13220.74,"text":"會不會這種狀況"},{"start":13220.74,"end":13222.74,"text":"因為目前的確會有這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":13222.74,"end":13224.74,"text":"就是說他有一些乾花包的"},{"start":13224.74,"end":13226.74,"text":"他可能是因為他經費沒有節序"},{"start":13226.74,"end":13228.74,"text":"所以他花包的金額沒有達到"},{"start":13228.74,"end":13230.74,"text":"他預定的一個額度"},{"start":13230.74,"end":13232.74,"text":"那現在如果說要趕的部分"},{"start":13232.74,"end":13234.74,"text":"這個部分就是說要盡量去"},{"start":13234.74,"end":13236.74,"text":"是啊"},{"start":13236.74,"end":13238.74,"text":"這執行率很有壓力"},{"start":13238.74,"end":13240.74,"text":"可是如果過度的觸動執行率時間有限的情況底下"},{"start":13240.74,"end":13242.74,"text":"品質可能就會有憂慮"},{"start":13242.74,"end":13244.74,"text":"這個部分也是我們盡量"},{"start":13244.74,"end":13246.74,"text":"要跟各單位來"},{"start":13246.74,"end":13248.74,"text":"請他們來進行"},{"start":13248.74,"end":13250.74,"text":"你還要跟審計部講一下"},{"start":13250.74,"end":13252.74,"text":"到時候這樣寫的時候"},{"start":13252.74,"end":13254.74,"text":"不要一直怪行政部門"},{"start":13254.74,"end":13256.74,"text":"要寫說因為立法院不審預算"},{"start":13256.74,"end":13258.74,"text":"引起到行政審計部敢不敢這樣寫"},{"start":13258.74,"end":13260.74,"text":"審計長"},{"start":13260.74,"end":13262.74,"text":"是因為立法院的關係他敢"},{"start":13262.74,"end":13264.74,"text":"他點頭了你就不用上來了"},{"start":13264.74,"end":13266.74,"text":"接下來再算了說"},{"start":13266.74,"end":13268.74,"text":"那如果是6月的話"},{"start":13268.74,"end":13270.74,"text":"寶龍津貼 國寶年金"},{"start":13270.74,"end":13272.74,"text":"八大社福津貼"},{"start":13272.74,"end":13274.74,"text":"來得及什麼時候送最佳預算"},{"start":13274.74,"end":13276.74,"text":"民眾都非常期待"},{"start":13276.74,"end":13278.74,"text":"這三筆預算"},{"start":13278.74,"end":13280.74,"text":"兩筆追溯到1月1號"},{"start":13280.74,"end":13282.74,"text":"另外是7月1號"},{"start":13282.74,"end":13284.74,"text":"總共的金額"},{"start":13284.74,"end":13286.74,"text":"高達355億"},{"start":13287.65,"end":13289.65,"text":"民眾充滿期待"},{"start":13290.17,"end":13292.17,"text":"如果按照這種方式"},{"start":13292.17,"end":13294.17,"text":"那我就再請教一下主計長"},{"start":13294.17,"end":13296.17,"text":"您預估的這個時辰大概什麼時候"},{"start":13297.45,"end":13299.45,"text":"我們應該是"},{"start":13299.45,"end":13301.45,"text":"因為現在我們已經開始籌編116年度的一個預算"},{"start":13301.45,"end":13303.45,"text":"那是明年的事情"},{"start":13303.45,"end":13305.45,"text":"我現在問你追加預算的部分"},{"start":13305.45,"end":13307.45,"text":"追加預算也大概是"},{"start":13307.45,"end":13309.45,"text":"跟他差不多一個期間"},{"start":13309.45,"end":13311.45,"text":"大概幾月 能不能說個時間點"},{"start":13312.46,"end":13314.46,"text":"大概8月底啦"},{"start":13315.15,"end":13317.15,"text":"8月送的話 又等到通過的話"},{"start":13317.15,"end":13319.15,"text":"民眾是不是要都等很久"},{"start":13319.15,"end":13321.15,"text":"要等到什麼時候"},{"start":13321.14,"end":13323.14,"text":"這個部分喔"},{"start":13323.14,"end":13325.14,"text":"本院非常的勤勞認真"},{"start":13325.14,"end":13327.14,"text":"延會啦 會一直延下去啦"},{"start":13327.14,"end":13329.14,"text":"所以我們還是希望說這一次"},{"start":13329.14,"end":13331.14,"text":"預算的一個115年預算審查"},{"start":13331.14,"end":13333.14,"text":"能夠快捏預算"},{"start":13333.14,"end":13335.14,"text":"因為追加預算它不是那麼快的"},{"start":13335.14,"end":13337.14,"text":"一個能夠通過"},{"start":13337.14,"end":13339.14,"text":"對我知道 連帶關係嘛"},{"start":13339.14,"end":13341.14,"text":"穩定物價的一個相關的措施"},{"start":13341.14,"end":13343.14,"text":"而且這還是很順利喔"},{"start":13343.14,"end":13345.14,"text":"你6月的時候中旬通過三讀喔"},{"start":13345.14,"end":13347.14,"text":"年度預算喔"},{"start":13347.14,"end":13349.14,"text":"接下來你才會"},{"start":13349.14,"end":13351.14,"text":"通過這個追加預算喔"},{"start":13351.14,"end":13353.14,"text":"這前面快後面才會跟著快喔"},{"start":13353.14,"end":13355.14,"text":"但是我也跟委員報告"},{"start":13355.14,"end":13357.14,"text":"勞農年金和國防年金"},{"start":13357.14,"end":13359.14,"text":"這些的相關的條例"},{"start":13359.14,"end":13361.14,"text":"他還沒有過啦"},{"start":13361.14,"end":13363.14,"text":"還沒有過喔"},{"start":13363.14,"end":13365.14,"text":"你看這樣拖下去就更久了"},{"start":13365.14,"end":13367.14,"text":"不是嗎 相關的條例還沒有過"},{"start":13367.14,"end":13369.14,"text":"就拖下去更久"},{"start":13369.14,"end":13371.14,"text":"而且你後面還有軍公教加薪"},{"start":13371.14,"end":13373.14,"text":"會不會加薪啊"},{"start":13372.52,"end":13374.52,"text":"這個人種的那邊"},{"start":13374.52,"end":13376.52,"text":"他是有這樣的一個"},{"start":13376.52,"end":13378.52,"text":"就整體來做一個條例"},{"start":13378.52,"end":13380.52,"text":"也是用追加預算"},{"start":13380.52,"end":13382.52,"text":"重點是"},{"start":13382.52,"end":13384.52,"text":"這個追加預算會不會一併處理"},{"start":13384.52,"end":13386.52,"text":"一併處理嘛"},{"start":13386.52,"end":13388.52,"text":"如果軍公教加薪的話"},{"start":13388.52,"end":13390.52,"text":"就跟前面的這個津貼年金"},{"start":13390.52,"end":13392.52,"text":"一併處理嘛"},{"start":13392.52,"end":13394.52,"text":"穩定物價的那個部分"},{"start":13394.52,"end":13396.52,"text":"1300億呢 怎麼辦"},{"start":13396.52,"end":13398.52,"text":"這個部分呢"},{"start":13398.52,"end":13400.52,"text":"當然它多少是要看戰爭的一個期限"},{"start":13400.52,"end":13402.52,"text":"那第二個"},{"start":13402.52,"end":13404.52,"text":"還要看說補貼的一個"},{"start":13404.52,"end":13406.52,"text":"項目的期間到底是多少"},{"start":13406.52,"end":13408.52,"text":"所以必須要行政院做一個"},{"start":13408.52,"end":13410.52,"text":"無限期休戰啊"},{"start":13410.52,"end":13412.52,"text":"其實又有變化"},{"start":13412.52,"end":13414.52,"text":"我們要看行政院"},{"start":13414.52,"end":13416.52,"text":"整個財勢是怎麼變化"},{"start":13416.52,"end":13418.52,"text":"這1300億不一定會變"},{"start":13418.24,"end":13420.24,"text":"因為目前就已經有"},{"start":13420.65,"end":13422.65,"text":"停戰啊"},{"start":13422.65,"end":13424.65,"text":"中油的部分還有包括台電"},{"start":13424.65,"end":13426.65,"text":"都有一些支出"},{"start":13426.65,"end":13428.65,"text":"其實是應該要做一些的填補"},{"start":13428.65,"end":13430.65,"text":"已經補貼了"},{"start":13430.65,"end":13432.65,"text":"如果有辦追加預算是應該要一次辦"},{"start":13432.65,"end":13434.65,"text":"或者是說要辦特別預算"},{"start":13434.65,"end":13436.65,"text":"這必須要看行政院的才是啦"},{"start":13436.65,"end":13438.65,"text":"所以說這個要怎麼收處理"},{"start":13438.65,"end":13440.65,"text":"也是這"},{"start":13440.65,"end":13442.65,"text":"一般就是說我們希望"},{"start":13442.65,"end":13444.65,"text":"能夠在8月底"},{"start":13444.65,"end":13446.65,"text":"也就是說呢 三大福利軍公教"},{"start":13446.65,"end":13448.65,"text":"加薪一併在8月底"},{"start":13448.65,"end":13450.65,"text":"已經可能把它提出來"},{"start":13450.65,"end":13452.65,"text":"因為軍公教加薪比較不確認"},{"start":13452.65,"end":13454.65,"text":"軍公教加薪這個部分是不是"},{"start":13454.65,"end":13456.65,"text":"比如說要看人種這邊"},{"start":13456.65,"end":13458.65,"text":"我真的不想沒有辦法幫你"},{"start":13458.65,"end":13460.65,"text":"但是人種已經在朝向這個方向"},{"start":13460.65,"end":13462.65,"text":"我本席就再叫你一個問題"},{"start":13462.65,"end":13464.65,"text":"除了這個預算之外"},{"start":13464.65,"end":13466.65,"text":"中央發債的部分"},{"start":13466.65,"end":13468.65,"text":"目前只有"},{"start":13468.65,"end":13470.65,"text":"4億"},{"start":13470.65,"end":13472.65,"text":"以行公債的部分"},{"start":13472.65,"end":13474.65,"text":"也就是說呢"},{"start":13474.65,"end":13476.65,"text":"整個省計部之前提到"},{"start":13476.65,"end":13478.65,"text":"財政部在推動非營業基金的"},{"start":13478.65,"end":13480.65,"text":"發行永續發展債券的時候"},{"start":13480.65,"end":13482.65,"text":"兩年多一件都沒有辦"},{"start":13483.61,"end":13485.61,"text":"終於有一件要辦了"},{"start":13485.61,"end":13487.61,"text":"結果發現多少 4億"},{"start":13487.61,"end":13489.61,"text":"那我們去看一下台北市桃園高雄"},{"start":13489.61,"end":13491.61,"text":"合計起來多少"},{"start":13491.61,"end":13493.61,"text":"284億"},{"start":13493.03,"end":13495.03,"text":"就很奇怪了"},{"start":13495.03,"end":13497.03,"text":"現在到底是中央比較缺錢還是地方比較缺錢"},{"start":13497.03,"end":13499.03,"text":"明明財法法過了之後我們就少了4千多億"},{"start":13499.03,"end":13501.03,"text":"我們完全不緊張"},{"start":13501.03,"end":13503.03,"text":"主席長"},{"start":13502.43,"end":13504.43,"text":"這是怎麼一回事"},{"start":13504.43,"end":13506.43,"text":"為什麼省計部"},{"start":13506.43,"end":13508.43,"text":"提出的報告中央不理不睬"},{"start":13508.43,"end":13510.43,"text":"是不是吃大鍋飯習慣了"},{"start":13512.31,"end":13514.31,"text":"大家想說預算邊邊就好"},{"start":13514.31,"end":13516.31,"text":"不用另外去籌組裁員"},{"start":13516.31,"end":13518.31,"text":"不用去找銀行"},{"start":13518.31,"end":13520.31,"text":"你去想一想喔"},{"start":13520.31,"end":13522.31,"text":"你這4億一放出來"},{"start":13522.31,"end":13524.31,"text":"馬上就被搶空了"},{"start":13524.31,"end":13526.31,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":13526.31,"end":13528.31,"text":"因為我們公債的發行量很低嘛"},{"start":13528.31,"end":13530.31,"text":"所以你永續發展"},{"start":13530.31,"end":13532.31,"text":"基金的這個發行"},{"start":13532.31,"end":13534.31,"text":"很多銀行很多金融機關"},{"start":13534.31,"end":13536.31,"text":"或者是郵政處去馬上會來搶"},{"start":13536.31,"end":13538.31,"text":"你應該透過這部分來彌補"},{"start":13538.31,"end":13540.31,"text":"現在你的預算不足這個不是最好的事"},{"start":13540.31,"end":13542.31,"text":"主席長是不是"},{"start":13542.31,"end":13544.31,"text":"這個部分比較偏財政是不是請財政部"},{"start":13544.31,"end":13546.31,"text":"好財政部來請財政部"},{"start":13546.31,"end":13548.31,"text":"等一下等一下"},{"start":13548.31,"end":13550.31,"text":"還有你還有你等一下"},{"start":13550.55,"end":13552.55,"text":"不好意思啊"},{"start":13552.55,"end":13554.55,"text":"我一直以為是你誤會你"},{"start":13554.55,"end":13556.55,"text":"來那個軟次來說明一下"},{"start":13556.55,"end":13558.55,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":13557.57,"end":13559.57,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":13559.57,"end":13561.57,"text":"現在目前中央"},{"start":13561.57,"end":13563.57,"text":"中央跟地方都一直在推"},{"start":13563.57,"end":13565.57,"text":"中央目前就只有一筆是"},{"start":13565.57,"end":13567.57,"text":"4億"},{"start":13567.57,"end":13569.57,"text":"有一筆是高雄的航空站"},{"start":13569.57,"end":13571.57,"text":"以前出產的部分"},{"start":13571.57,"end":13573.57,"text":"大家也做了"},{"start":13573.57,"end":13575.57,"text":"心不甘情不厭"},{"start":13575.57,"end":13577.57,"text":"現在永續發展"},{"start":13577.57,"end":13579.57,"text":"基金的債券其實"},{"start":13579.57,"end":13581.57,"text":"發展起來其實更容易"},{"start":13581.57,"end":13583.57,"text":"因為很多人搶手"},{"start":13583.57,"end":13585.57,"text":"永續發展債券基本上"},{"start":13585.57,"end":13587.57,"text":"現在我們要做一個什麼樣的誘因跟機制"},{"start":13587.57,"end":13589.57,"text":"來要求中央相關"},{"start":13589.57,"end":13591.57,"text":"單位來發行"},{"start":13591.57,"end":13593.57,"text":"我們現在是這樣先請就是說"},{"start":13593.57,"end":13595.57,"text":"除了中央"},{"start":13595.57,"end":13597.57,"text":"跟金管會還有貴買中心合作"},{"start":13597.57,"end":13599.57,"text":"來尋找暗源之外"},{"start":13599.57,"end":13601.57,"text":"既然你上了台"},{"start":13601.57,"end":13603.57,"text":"剛剛主席長就說你"},{"start":13603.57,"end":13605.57,"text":"你是主政單位"},{"start":13605.57,"end":13607.57,"text":"一個月之內你要提一個什麼辦法"},{"start":13607.57,"end":13609.57,"text":"來鼓勵中央相關部會"},{"start":13609.57,"end":13611.57,"text":"來發行這個永續發展債券"},{"start":13611.57,"end":13613.57,"text":"來籌措這個資源"},{"start":13613.57,"end":13615.57,"text":"你面對現階段"},{"start":13615.57,"end":13617.57,"text":"預算不足的壓力"},{"start":13617.57,"end":13619.57,"text":"好不好"},{"start":13619.57,"end":13621.57,"text":"用一個月的時間好不好"},{"start":13621.57,"end":13623.57,"text":"我們繼續來推"},{"start":13623.57,"end":13625.57,"text":"我們已經在推了"},{"start":13625.57,"end":13627.57,"text":"已經在推還不夠"},{"start":13627.57,"end":13629.57,"text":"你如何刺激他們給他們"},{"start":13629.57,"end":13631.57,"text":"業績壓力KPI"},{"start":13631.57,"end":13633.57,"text":"怎麼樣的方法讓他們能夠提早"},{"start":13633.57,"end":13635.57,"text":"提出來好不好"},{"start":13635.57,"end":13637.57,"text":"謝謝委員長"},{"start":13637.57,"end":13639.57,"text":"最後一個部分主席長"},{"start":13639.57,"end":13641.57,"text":"你看我們要求地方"},{"start":13641.57,"end":13643.57,"text":"地方政府有個災害準備金的部分"},{"start":13643.57,"end":13645.57,"text":"要總預算1%"},{"start":13645.57,"end":13647.57,"text":"一般而言這個災害準備金"},{"start":13647.57,"end":13649.57,"text":"本行為什麼這麼退而"},{"start":13649.57,"end":13651.57,"text":"在北部相對比較少"},{"start":13651.57,"end":13653.57,"text":"動用到災害準備金可是在"},{"start":13653.57,"end":13655.57,"text":"中南部的部分1%"},{"start":13655.57,"end":13657.57,"text":"往往都不足往往不足的時候"},{"start":13657.57,"end":13659.57,"text":"都會跟中央來"},{"start":13659.57,"end":13661.57,"text":"爭取可是中央"},{"start":13661.57,"end":13663.57,"text":"要求地方1%可是中央變多少"},{"start":13663.57,"end":13665.57,"text":"中央政府變0.16"},{"start":13667.43,"end":13671.43,"text":"照說這至少要變303.5億"},{"start":13672.42,"end":13674.42,"text":"缺口足足差了250億"},{"start":13675.99,"end":13677.99,"text":"那個主席長"},{"start":13677.99,"end":13679.99,"text":"這個災害準備金要多變一點"},{"start":13679.99,"end":13681.99,"text":"不是說我們要怎麼樣"},{"start":13681.99,"end":13683.99,"text":"這反倒是備而不用"},{"start":13684.84,"end":13686.84,"text":"你都要求地方1%"},{"start":13686.84,"end":13688.84,"text":"為什麼中央不能多一點"},{"start":13688.84,"end":13690.84,"text":"不然我們還跑去民間募款"},{"start":13690.84,"end":13692.84,"text":"大家搶食中央的這一步"},{"start":13692.84,"end":13694.84,"text":"稀少的預算"},{"start":13694.84,"end":13696.84,"text":"而不夠的情況底下"},{"start":13696.84,"end":13698.84,"text":"卻責任下放到給其他的人"},{"start":13698.84,"end":13700.84,"text":"包括民意代表給一些民間團體"},{"start":13700.84,"end":13702.84,"text":"這不對嘛"},{"start":13702.84,"end":13704.84,"text":"你這個應該多變一點啦主席長你的看法怎麼樣能不能說明一下"},{"start":13704.84,"end":13706.84,"text":"我們已經逐年在增加了"},{"start":13706.84,"end":13708.84,"text":"以前才變20億"},{"start":13708.84,"end":13710.84,"text":"速度不夠啦我知道之前20億現在50億"},{"start":13710.84,"end":13712.84,"text":"那以前他只有對地方有規範"},{"start":13712.84,"end":13714.84,"text":"對我知道還為無其為"},{"start":13714.84,"end":13716.84,"text":"現在中央責任越來越大了"},{"start":13716.84,"end":13718.84,"text":"之前中央不都下去"},{"start":13718.84,"end":13720.84,"text":"指揮手嗎"},{"start":13720.84,"end":13722.84,"text":"不夠的部落可以從第二一部進來"},{"start":13722.84,"end":13724.84,"text":"你們現在責任越來越大"},{"start":13724.84,"end":13726.84,"text":"現在已經全國不分區了"},{"start":13726.84,"end":13728.84,"text":"災難所有的地方中央政府跟地方政府都要下去"},{"start":13728.84,"end":13730.84,"text":"好不好"},{"start":13730.84,"end":13732.84,"text":"朝下改變的方式來處理好不好"},{"start":13732.84,"end":13734.84,"text":"雖然我們是在砍預算的可是這一條不能審"},{"start":13734.84,"end":13736.84,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":13736.84,"end":13738.84,"text":"謝謝郭國榮委員的質詢"},{"start":13738.84,"end":13740.84,"text":"接下來請陳毓貞委員"},{"start":13746.81,"end":13748.81,"text":"謝謝主席請這個"},{"start":13749.31,"end":13751.31,"text":"主計長"},{"start":13751.31,"end":13753.31,"text":"待會兒審計部跟那個"},{"start":13753.31,"end":13755.31,"text":"審計長陳審長"},{"start":13755.31,"end":13757.31,"text":"還有農業部"},{"start":13757.31,"end":13759.31,"text":"農業部胡正次"},{"start":13759.31,"end":13761.31,"text":"委員好"},{"start":13761.31,"end":13763.31,"text":"上一會我們有提到離島公共工程的這個"},{"start":13763.31,"end":13765.31,"text":"問題嘛"},{"start":13765.31,"end":13767.31,"text":"我們有請主計總處跟這個工程會"},{"start":13767.31,"end":13769.31,"text":"開會啦就是說你們要來討論說"},{"start":13769.31,"end":13771.31,"text":"離島公共工程的這個"},{"start":13771.31,"end":13773.31,"text":"營建成本現在規定是多三成"},{"start":13773.31,"end":13775.31,"text":"對以前是"},{"start":13775.31,"end":13777.31,"text":"30%嘛"},{"start":13777.31,"end":13779.31,"text":"就是說讓他不要做限制"},{"start":13779.31,"end":13781.31,"text":"就不做限制"},{"start":13781.31,"end":13783.31,"text":"我有看到你們給我回覆說"},{"start":13783.31,"end":13785.31,"text":"是不做限制"},{"start":13785.31,"end":13787.31,"text":"不做限制可能你也要在這個相關的"},{"start":13787.31,"end":13789.31,"text":"法律或辦法裡頭"},{"start":13789.31,"end":13791.31,"text":"比如說你的這個"},{"start":13791.31,"end":13793.31,"text":"公共性費用"},{"start":13793.31,"end":13795.31,"text":"116年度就做這樣一個規範"},{"start":13795.31,"end":13797.31,"text":"對要寫在裡頭"},{"start":13797.31,"end":13799.31,"text":"因為如果你完全不做限制到時候"},{"start":13799.31,"end":13801.31,"text":"市長基層的公務員有時候什麼事也不敢做"},{"start":13801.31,"end":13803.31,"text":"這個部就會"},{"start":13803.31,"end":13805.31,"text":"比較明確比如說"},{"start":13805.31,"end":13807.31,"text":"地方來實際訪查嘛"},{"start":13807.31,"end":13809.31,"text":"應該怎麼做給一個辦法寫在裡頭"},{"start":13809.31,"end":13811.31,"text":"寫清楚"},{"start":13811.31,"end":13813.31,"text":"對我們會參照公共工程"},{"start":13813.31,"end":13815.31,"text":"委員會給的意見"},{"start":13815.31,"end":13817.31,"text":"然後把它列入我們預算編列"},{"start":13817.31,"end":13819.31,"text":"一個標準裡面來做規範"},{"start":13819.31,"end":13821.31,"text":"是因為原來事實上在116年度"},{"start":13821.31,"end":13823.31,"text":"開始本來就有寫說"},{"start":13823.31,"end":13825.31,"text":"可以有一些"},{"start":13825.31,"end":13827.31,"text":"一些搬家單位"},{"start":13827.31,"end":13829.31,"text":"如果有特殊需求可以續免旅遊"},{"start":13829.31,"end":13831.31,"text":"但這個是例外嘛"},{"start":13831.31,"end":13833.31,"text":"但是我們金門的例外這麼多就已經變成"},{"start":13833.31,"end":13835.31,"text":"一個常態"},{"start":13835.31,"end":13837.31,"text":"我是希望在你們的辦法裡頭比較明確一點"},{"start":13837.31,"end":13839.31,"text":"讓地方工程在這個"},{"start":13839.31,"end":13841.31,"text":"不管招標不會說招標12次"},{"start":13841.31,"end":13843.31,"text":"留標"},{"start":13843.31,"end":13845.31,"text":"每次一直提高"},{"start":13845.31,"end":13847.31,"text":"款項一直增加"},{"start":13847.31,"end":13849.31,"text":"也做不了"},{"start":13849.31,"end":13851.31,"text":"工程的延宕除了時間成本以外"},{"start":13851.31,"end":13853.31,"text":"事實上預算也越來越高"},{"start":13853.31,"end":13855.31,"text":"事實上是對政府反而不利"},{"start":13855.31,"end":13857.31,"text":"麻煩你在今年的"},{"start":13857.31,"end":13859.31,"text":"116年的"},{"start":13859.31,"end":13861.31,"text":"這個公共性費用編列"},{"start":13861.31,"end":13863.31,"text":"我們會做一個預準表把它寫出來"},{"start":13863.31,"end":13865.31,"text":"或者做一個比較明確的函式也可以"},{"start":13865.31,"end":13867.31,"text":"好這個麻煩你"},{"start":13867.31,"end":13869.31,"text":"謝謝主席長"},{"start":13869.31,"end":13871.31,"text":"那接著我們請這個審計長"},{"start":13872.29,"end":13874.29,"text":"好"},{"start":13873.52,"end":13875.52,"text":"你好辛苦了"},{"start":13875.52,"end":13877.52,"text":"這個我們金門地方"},{"start":13877.52,"end":13879.52,"text":"有很多這個以前是實行戰地政務"},{"start":13879.52,"end":13881.52,"text":"那戰地政務的時候比如說"},{"start":13881.52,"end":13883.52,"text":"有很多隱形的地雷"},{"start":13883.52,"end":13885.52,"text":"比如說軍方國防部國防部"},{"start":13885.52,"end":13887.52,"text":"像我們現在施工環島南路來講"},{"start":13887.52,"end":13889.52,"text":"很多有比如說廢棄的軍用油管"},{"start":13889.52,"end":13891.52,"text":"就國防部"},{"start":13891.52,"end":13893.52,"text":"在當初有做一些軍事設施"},{"start":13893.52,"end":13895.52,"text":"那後來沒有用以後"},{"start":13895.52,"end":13897.52,"text":"應該理論上是國防部的責任"},{"start":13897.52,"end":13899.52,"text":"應該去把它拆除"},{"start":13899.52,"end":13901.52,"text":"那我們金門現在在做一些相關的施工的時候"},{"start":13901.52,"end":13903.52,"text":"遇到一些軍用的設施"},{"start":13903.52,"end":13905.52,"text":"要嘛有的要保存"},{"start":13905.52,"end":13907.52,"text":"要嘛有的要拆除"},{"start":13907.52,"end":13909.52,"text":"那這些東西這個光部並沒有編列專款專用"},{"start":13909.52,"end":13911.52,"text":"都是由這個"},{"start":13911.52,"end":13913.52,"text":"地方政府在跟這個"},{"start":13913.52,"end":13915.52,"text":"申請這個離島建設基金"},{"start":13915.52,"end":13917.52,"text":"來做這些"},{"start":13917.52,"end":13919.52,"text":"就是"},{"start":13919.52,"end":13921.52,"text":"比如說這個廢棄油管來講"},{"start":13921.52,"end":13923.52,"text":"以這樣來講是來做這些拆除的工作"},{"start":13923.52,"end":13925.52,"text":"那離島建設基金是要幫助離島建設發展"},{"start":13925.52,"end":13927.52,"text":"那這些東西是國防部當初"},{"start":13927.52,"end":13929.52,"text":"它遺留下來的"},{"start":13929.52,"end":13931.52,"text":"那這個邏輯上來講當初這遺留下來也是國防部的東西"},{"start":13931.52,"end":13933.52,"text":"那國防部本身其實是有預算"},{"start":13933.52,"end":13935.52,"text":"是不是請省級部可以督促這個"},{"start":13935.52,"end":13937.52,"text":"我們國防部可以落實這個責任的這個法理原則"},{"start":13942.35,"end":13944.35,"text":"他們留下來的東西他們應該編專款"},{"start":13944.35,"end":13946.35,"text":"比如說幾年內你把它清掉"},{"start":13946.35,"end":13948.35,"text":"就像以前清地了一樣"},{"start":13948.35,"end":13950.35,"text":"不能再有不要再有離島建設"},{"start":13950.35,"end":13952.35,"text":"因為離島建設現在已經是比較少了"},{"start":13952.35,"end":13954.35,"text":"那要做離島的建設發展"},{"start":13954.35,"end":13956.35,"text":"那這個國防部並不是沒有"},{"start":13956.35,"end":13958.35,"text":"預算嘛"},{"start":13958.35,"end":13960.35,"text":"它有預算嘛它可以專用編列一個"},{"start":13960.35,"end":13962.35,"text":"幾年的比如說五年的一個"},{"start":13962.35,"end":13964.35,"text":"清除計畫針對當初的戰地"},{"start":13964.35,"end":13966.35,"text":"政府的那個"},{"start":13966.35,"end":13968.35,"text":"的那些設施嘛這個是讓符合國有財產法的"},{"start":13968.35,"end":13970.35,"text":"其實管理機關應該"},{"start":13970.35,"end":13972.35,"text":"維護管理廢棄的責任"},{"start":13972.35,"end":13974.35,"text":"當初是軍方管的金門是軍方管"},{"start":13974.35,"end":13976.35,"text":"所以設施也是他們"},{"start":13976.35,"end":13978.35,"text":"買下來的那他們現在就應該把它"},{"start":13978.35,"end":13980.35,"text":"清除那當然也可以"},{"start":13980.35,"end":13982.35,"text":"為由地方代辦但這個裁員的部分是請"},{"start":13982.35,"end":13984.35,"text":"省級出來協助要求"},{"start":13984.35,"end":13986.35,"text":"好謝謝依照國防部的規定"},{"start":13986.35,"end":13988.35,"text":"是國防部的責任"},{"start":13988.35,"end":13990.35,"text":"所以我們已經喊請國防部"},{"start":13990.35,"end":13992.35,"text":"查明第二個我們"},{"start":13992.35,"end":13994.35,"text":"省級部會做聯合省級因為"},{"start":13994.35,"end":13996.35,"text":"牽涉國防部也牽涉"},{"start":13996.35,"end":13998.35,"text":"金門地方政府所以我們"},{"start":13998.35,"end":14000.35,"text":"聯合省級就是由我們第二廳"},{"start":14000.35,"end":14002.35,"text":"國防廳和"},{"start":14002.35,"end":14004.35,"text":"金門省級處聯合"},{"start":14004.35,"end":14006.35,"text":"把這個問題做一個"},{"start":14006.35,"end":14008.35,"text":"徹底的了解"},{"start":14008.35,"end":14010.35,"text":"來處理"},{"start":14010.35,"end":14012.35,"text":"我想你們當外很有力"},{"start":14012.35,"end":14014.35,"text":"也很有執行力"},{"start":14014.35,"end":14016.35,"text":"也做得很好請你們就是多多"},{"start":14016.35,"end":14018.35,"text":"督促國防部好到府員的意思來做"},{"start":14018.35,"end":14020.35,"text":"謝謝您好謝謝"},{"start":14020.35,"end":14022.35,"text":"現在請農業部"},{"start":14022.71,"end":14024.71,"text":"農業部特別是這個動植物"},{"start":14024.71,"end":14026.71,"text":"有房間署的署長也有來"},{"start":14026.71,"end":14028.71,"text":"好"},{"start":14029.05,"end":14031.05,"text":"這個您看一下"},{"start":14031.05,"end":14033.05,"text":"金門是"},{"start":14033.05,"end":14035.05,"text":"市長也可以"},{"start":14035.05,"end":14037.05,"text":"農糧署"},{"start":14037.05,"end":14039.05,"text":"署長"},{"start":14039.05,"end":14041.05,"text":"你以前在農糧署"},{"start":14041.05,"end":14043.05,"text":"署長是也是我們這次"},{"start":14043.05,"end":14045.05,"text":"講防疫今天要講這個防疫"},{"start":14045.05,"end":14047.05,"text":"金門是屬於"},{"start":14047.05,"end":14049.05,"text":"台澎金中華民國一部分"},{"start":14049.05,"end":14051.05,"text":"日本是外國"},{"start":14051.05,"end":14053.05,"text":"但是你看同樣發生"},{"start":14053.05,"end":14055.05,"text":"這個牛結節"},{"start":14055.05,"end":14057.05,"text":"牛結節診這個事情"},{"start":14057.05,"end":14059.05,"text":"日本的牛有牛結節"},{"start":14059.05,"end":14061.05,"text":"金門的牛有牛結節"},{"start":14061.05,"end":14063.05,"text":"這個"},{"start":14063.05,"end":14065.05,"text":"有安全規範世界安全規範說"},{"start":14065.05,"end":14067.05,"text":"谷歌機是一個安全產品這沒問題"},{"start":14067.05,"end":14069.05,"text":"你們的態度是"},{"start":14069.05,"end":14071.05,"text":"日本的牛有牛結節可以進口"},{"start":14071.05,"end":14073.05,"text":"不受限制但是金門的牛"},{"start":14073.05,"end":14075.05,"text":"有牛結節就全面封殺"},{"start":14075.05,"end":14077.05,"text":"不能進來"},{"start":14077.06,"end":14079.06,"text":"你們是不是對外國比對自家人還寬容"},{"start":14079.06,"end":14081.06,"text":"同樣的事情"},{"start":14081.06,"end":14083.06,"text":"金門的牛不能進來但是日本的牛"},{"start":14083.06,"end":14085.06,"text":"可以進來台灣"},{"start":14086.65,"end":14088.65,"text":"就"},{"start":14087.46,"end":14089.46,"text":"就金門牛不能進來台灣本島"},{"start":14090.92,"end":14092.92,"text":"來為了謝謝"},{"start":14092.92,"end":14094.92,"text":"謝謝陳委員的指教"},{"start":14094.92,"end":14096.92,"text":"那事實上因為"},{"start":14097.18,"end":14099.18,"text":"以金門來講確實是對於"},{"start":14099.18,"end":14101.18,"text":"這個大陸的"},{"start":14101.18,"end":14103.18,"text":"太鄉近"},{"start":14103.18,"end":14105.18,"text":"你是因為距離近嗎"},{"start":14105.18,"end":14107.18,"text":"是因為距離所以因為金門的距離"},{"start":14107.18,"end":14109.18,"text":"很多東西都要被限制嗎"},{"start":14109.18,"end":14111.18,"text":"陳委員我再說明一下"},{"start":14111.18,"end":14113.18,"text":"現在以目前來講"},{"start":14113.18,"end":14115.18,"text":"你們每次"},{"start":14115.18,"end":14117.18,"text":"不管是牛"},{"start":14117.18,"end":14119.18,"text":"或是群牛一旦你們都說因為我們距離大陸近"},{"start":14119.18,"end":14121.18,"text":"所以什麼東西都不能進來"},{"start":14121.18,"end":14123.18,"text":"要不要建議中央把我們化"},{"start":14123.18,"end":14125.18,"text":"化到哪一邊去"},{"start":14125.18,"end":14127.18,"text":"對不起"},{"start":14127.18,"end":14129.18,"text":"我還是要再說明一下"},{"start":14129.18,"end":14131.18,"text":"就以最近在講的是"},{"start":14131.18,"end":14133.18,"text":"我先問你日本的牛"},{"start":14133.18,"end":14135.18,"text":"怎麼可以進"},{"start":14135.18,"end":14137.18,"text":"像日本的牛節節整的牛可以進"},{"start":14137.18,"end":14139.18,"text":"不上線"},{"start":14139.18,"end":14141.18,"text":"金門的牛真的不能進"},{"start":14141.18,"end":14143.18,"text":"我現在再說明一下"},{"start":14143.18,"end":14145.18,"text":"是因為在金門他的牛級的管理"},{"start":14145.18,"end":14147.18,"text":"並沒有落實跟徹底"},{"start":14147.18,"end":14149.18,"text":"沒有落實嗎"},{"start":14149.18,"end":14151.18,"text":"你看我現在到現在"},{"start":14151.18,"end":14153.18,"text":"這個還是我們的議題"},{"start":14153.18,"end":14155.18,"text":"我可以進一步再跟委員"},{"start":14155.18,"end":14157.18,"text":"做報告"},{"start":14157.18,"end":14159.18,"text":"有都有去"},{"start":14159.18,"end":14161.18,"text":"我們有注射率98牛節"},{"start":14161.18,"end":14163.18,"text":"注射率94"},{"start":14163.18,"end":14165.18,"text":"耳標的這個叮掛已經快要百分之百了"},{"start":14165.18,"end":14167.18,"text":"你們是要要求到百分之百是嗎"},{"start":14167.18,"end":14169.18,"text":"報告委員確實他在牛級的管理"},{"start":14169.18,"end":14171.18,"text":"上有很多放牧的"},{"start":14171.18,"end":14173.18,"text":"那個地方確實是"},{"start":14173.18,"end":14175.18,"text":"是沒有辦法完全掌握到"},{"start":14175.18,"end":14177.18,"text":"那所以我請問一下"},{"start":14177.18,"end":14179.18,"text":"你有沒有完全掌握到日本的牛"},{"start":14179.18,"end":14181.18,"text":"每一隻牛都有做耳標"},{"start":14181.54,"end":14183.54,"text":"日本"},{"start":14183.54,"end":14185.54,"text":"我們只要你這樣標準就好了"},{"start":14185.54,"end":14187.54,"text":"這個的部分就是"},{"start":14187.54,"end":14189.54,"text":"日本有沒有"},{"start":14189.54,"end":14191.54,"text":"有"},{"start":14191.54,"end":14193.54,"text":"有查產地"},{"start":14193.54,"end":14195.54,"text":"日本的牛"},{"start":14195.54,"end":14197.54,"text":"我不要管你產地"},{"start":14197.54,"end":14199.54,"text":"難道你要求是百分之百的耳釘掛牌嗎"},{"start":14199.54,"end":14201.54,"text":"這是你們的要求嗎"},{"start":14201.53,"end":14203.53,"text":"這個是不是你們的要求"},{"start":14203.53,"end":14205.53,"text":"聚目法的要求"},{"start":14205.53,"end":14207.53,"text":"這就是牛如果金門牛要開放要這樣子"},{"start":14207.53,"end":14209.53,"text":"這個標準我可以接受"},{"start":14209.53,"end":14211.53,"text":"反正你要要求的標準"},{"start":14211.53,"end":14213.53,"text":"我不是不能接受"},{"start":14213.53,"end":14215.53,"text":"那就接著我們看怎麼做"},{"start":14215.53,"end":14217.53,"text":"第一個外國進口牛"},{"start":14217.53,"end":14219.53,"text":"你也必須要一樣的標準"},{"start":14219.53,"end":14221.53,"text":"這個是這樣要求的"},{"start":14221.53,"end":14223.53,"text":"你不要讓我到日本去考察"},{"start":14223.53,"end":14225.53,"text":"我們沒有去查產"},{"start":14225.53,"end":14227.53,"text":"而且他輸入的"},{"start":14227.05,"end":14229.05,"text":"是非異點"},{"start":14229.05,"end":14231.05,"text":"非異點他一定要符合國際規範"},{"start":14231.05,"end":14233.05,"text":"才有可能他的牛會進來"},{"start":14233.05,"end":14235.05,"text":"國際規範牛節節整"},{"start":14235.05,"end":14237.05,"text":"金門的牛不能進來"},{"start":14237.05,"end":14239.05,"text":"但是日本的牛不受限"},{"start":14239.05,"end":14241.05,"text":"所以你先告訴我你的標準在哪裡"},{"start":14241.05,"end":14243.05,"text":"我們照標準做沒有關係"},{"start":14243.05,"end":14245.05,"text":"我們會配合"},{"start":14245.05,"end":14247.05,"text":"最近口蹄疫"},{"start":14247.05,"end":14249.05,"text":"以大陸來講又新型的口蹄疫"},{"start":14249.05,"end":14251.05,"text":"大陸跟我什麼關係"},{"start":14251.05,"end":14253.05,"text":"兩岸太密切了"},{"start":14253.05,"end":14255.05,"text":"那台灣也離大陸很近"},{"start":14255.05,"end":14257.05,"text":"台灣也離中國大陸非常近"},{"start":14257.05,"end":14259.05,"text":"所以為了保護整個產業"},{"start":14259.05,"end":14261.05,"text":"我們一定要有所作為"},{"start":14261.05,"end":14263.05,"text":"不是你不要把金門從台灣切開"},{"start":14263.05,"end":14265.05,"text":"金門就台澎金馬的一部分"},{"star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code 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:"都拿來檢查"},{"start":14939.68,"end":14941.68,"text":"農業部不是講"},{"start":14941.68,"end":14943.68,"text":"最後還是講2%到多少%"},{"start":14943.68,"end":14945.68,"text":"農業部是60%"},{"start":14945.68,"end":14947.68,"text":"衛福部的話他們剛才是說"},{"start":14947.68,"end":14949.68,"text":"所以做得到每一顆拿來檢查做得到"},{"start":14949.68,"end":14951.68,"text":"那個檢查是在進到我們的這個"},{"start":14951.68,"end":14953.68,"text":"加工廠"},{"start":14953.68,"end":14955.68,"text":"還沒有讓它合格可以加工之前"},{"start":14955.68,"end":14957.68,"text":"我來回頭"},{"start":14957.68,"end":14959.68,"text":"來做比較"},{"start":14959.68,"end":14961.68,"text":"那我想請問"},{"start":14961.68,"end":14963.68,"text":"這個我們知道馬鈴薯"},{"start":14963.68,"end":14965.68,"text":"發芽會有龍葵減毒素"},{"start":14965.68,"end":14967.68,"text":"所以過去的做法"},{"start":14967.68,"end":14969.68,"text":"是不是一發芽腐爛就整批退運"},{"start":14969.68,"end":14971.68,"text":"沒錯吧"},{"start":14972.45,"end":14974.45,"text":"過去的做法"},{"start":14974.45,"end":14976.45,"text":"我們是負責檢疫"},{"start":14976.45,"end":14978.45,"text":"那龍葵減的部分那個是衛福部"},{"start":14978.45,"end":14980.45,"text":"我講的是只要有發芽腐爛就整批退運"},{"start":14980.45,"end":14982.45,"text":"過去的做法"},{"start":14982.45,"end":14984.45,"text":"謝謝你"},{"start":14984.45,"end":14986.45,"text":"那現在新的ART變成是"},{"start":14986.45,"end":14988.45,"text":"出現發芽或品質異常"},{"start":14988.45,"end":14990.45,"text":"不再一律整批退運"},{"start":14991.33,"end":14993.33,"text":"而是要改到送到指定加工廠"},{"start":14993.33,"end":14995.33,"text":"來區分"},{"start":14995.33,"end":14997.33,"text":"足顆來檢驗"},{"start":14997.33,"end":14999.33,"text":"就是來進行選別把發芽腐敗"},{"start":14999.33,"end":15001.33,"text":"或發霉的個體"},{"start":15001.33,"end":15003.33,"text":"剔除並整顆銷毀"},{"start":15003.33,"end":15005.33,"text":"對如果嚴重的話也是會"},{"start":15005.33,"end":15007.33,"text":"整塊都退運"},{"start":15007.33,"end":15009.33,"text":"那我想問你啊這算不算放寬"},{"start":15009.35,"end":15011.35,"text":"以前的做法"},{"start":15011.35,"end":15013.35,"text":"就是整批退運"},{"start":15013.35,"end":15015.35,"text":"沒有放寬"},{"start":15015.35,"end":15017.35,"text":"沒關係我們就看國人怎麼想"},{"start":15017.35,"end":15019.35,"text":"事實上你可以看到一件事情"},{"start":15020.78,"end":15022.78,"text":"過去食物商為什麼"},{"start":15022.78,"end":15024.78,"text":"採取有發芽腐爛就整櫃退運"},{"start":15026.4,"end":15028.4,"text":"因為我們政府有這個條件"},{"start":15028.4,"end":15030.4,"text":"有這個能力去逐批足顆篩選嗎"},{"start":15030.4,"end":15032.4,"text":"現在有這個能力跟條件嗎"},{"start":15034.02,"end":15036.02,"text":"所有的做法是一樣的"},{"start":15036.59,"end":15038.59,"text":"一樣的啊"},{"start":15038.59,"end":15040.59,"text":"整批退運跟進來足批篩選是一樣喔"},{"start":15040.59,"end":15042.59,"text":"在邊境我們是邊境"},{"start":15042.59,"end":15044.59,"text":"檢查完之後"},{"start":15044.59,"end":15046.59,"text":"如果有發芽的部分"},{"start":15046.59,"end":15048.59,"text":"我們生產業部的部分"},{"start":15048.59,"end":15050.59,"text":"我告訴你啦放寬就是放寬"},{"start":15050.59,"end":15052.59,"text":"你放寬之後改變"},{"start":15052.59,"end":15054.59,"text":"做法要的是食安品質"},{"start":15054.59,"end":15056.59,"text":"的把關那是後面在講的"},{"start":15056.59,"end":15058.59,"text":"可是你不要連第一段你都想"},{"start":15058.59,"end":15060.59,"text":"要矇騙今天消費者"},{"start":15060.59,"end":15062.59,"text":"沒有因為如果只要"},{"start":15062.59,"end":15064.59,"text":"現在不僅沒有整批"},{"start":15064.59,"end":15066.59,"text":"退嘛你把腐爛發芽的篩選"},{"start":15066.59,"end":15068.59,"text":"責任請交給誰"},{"start":15068.59,"end":15070.59,"text":"這個是交給誰"},{"start":15070.59,"end":15072.59,"text":"衛福部就交給你啦"},{"start":15074.74,"end":15076.74,"text":"包委員"},{"start":15076.74,"end":15078.74,"text":"只要有發芽的部分"},{"start":15078.74,"end":15080.74,"text":"農業部他們當然會把它剔除掉"},{"start":15080.74,"end":15082.74,"text":"那這一批沒有發芽"},{"start":15082.74,"end":15084.74,"text":"我們會去檢驗他的農魁鹼"},{"start":15084.74,"end":15086.74,"text":"超過200BPM一樣整批"},{"start":15086.74,"end":15088.74,"text":"把它退貨"},{"start":15089.68,"end":15091.68,"text":"你剛說腐爛發芽就要交給"},{"start":15091.68,"end":15093.68,"text":"衛福部不是吧"},{"start":15093.68,"end":15095.68,"text":"發芽腐爛還有"},{"start":15095.68,"end":15097.68,"text":"發霉這個是衛福部"},{"start":15097.68,"end":15099.68,"text":"他們還會去檢查"},{"start":15099.68,"end":15101.68,"text":"誰篩選誰篩檢本來誰篩檢"},{"start":15101.68,"end":15103.68,"text":"現在誰篩檢"},{"start":15103.68,"end":15105.68,"text":"林先生所講的那個是在"},{"start":15105.68,"end":15107.68,"text":"加工廠裡面"},{"start":15107.68,"end":15109.68,"text":"加工廠"},{"start":15109.68,"end":15111.68,"text":"加工廠去了嘛"},{"start":15111.68,"end":15113.68,"text":"不是那個還沒有入境"},{"start":15113.68,"end":15115.68,"text":"那個必須要在那邊"},{"start":15115.68,"end":15117.68,"text":"我要先舉個例子"},{"start":15117.68,"end":15119.68,"text":"過去啊"},{"start":15119.68,"end":15121.68,"text":"在邊境檢查有把整批"},{"start":15121.68,"end":15123.68,"text":"貨櫃內每個物品都拿出來檢查"},{"start":15123.68,"end":15125.68,"text":"每個馬林鼠拿出來檢查"},{"start":15125.68,"end":15127.68,"text":"以前我們是全部"},{"start":15127.68,"end":15129.68,"text":"所有的進口的馬林鼠"},{"start":15129.68,"end":15131.68,"text":"百分之六十我們做法是"},{"start":15131.68,"end":15133.68,"text":"百分之六十抽檢"},{"start":15133.68,"end":15135.68,"text":"人力不允許"},{"start":15135.68,"end":15137.68,"text":"答對了嘛"},{"start":15137.96,"end":15139.96,"text":"過去人力不允許才會有所謂整批退的情形"},{"start":15139.96,"end":15141.96,"text":"你現在跟我講你改變做法"},{"start":15141.96,"end":15143.96,"text":"那請問你要擴編多少人力"},{"start":15143.96,"end":15145.96,"text":"國際上每一個國家都一樣"},{"start":15145.96,"end":15147.96,"text":"不是只有台灣啦這個"},{"start":15147.96,"end":15149.96,"text":"我告訴你食安的"},{"start":15149.96,"end":15151.96,"text":"折扣沒有拿什麼國際不國際"},{"start":15151.96,"end":15153.96,"text":"台灣食安標準變寬了以後"},{"start":15153.96,"end":15155.96,"text":"你後面的責任要多多人去加強"},{"start":15155.96,"end":15157.96,"text":"是後面的問題"},{"start":15157.96,"end":15159.96,"text":"所以最後我還是很快結論結束"},{"start":15159.96,"end":15161.96,"text":"時間到了"},{"start":15161.8,"end":15163.8,"text":"做不到就不要亂承諾"},{"start":15163.8,"end":15165.8,"text":"一顆一顆怎麼檢"},{"start":15165.8,"end":15167.8,"text":"一億顆"},{"start":15167.8,"end":15169.8,"text":"謝謝你"},{"start":15169.8,"end":15171.8,"text":"我們會一顆一顆檢"},{"start":15171.8,"end":15173.8,"text":"因為發芽率只有百分之六"},{"start":15173.8,"end":15175.8,"text":"這是我們過去的經驗"},{"start":15175.8,"end":15177.8,"text":"所以一發芽我們會百分之百"},{"start":15177.8,"end":15179.8,"text":"那個是絕對沒有問題"},{"start":15179.8,"end":15181.8,"text":"謝謝我們結束劉志強委員的質詢"},{"start":15181.8,"end":15183.8,"text":"接下來請楊崇英委員"},{"start":15195.07,"end":15197.07,"text":"謝謝主席楊崇發言"},{"start":15197.07,"end":15199.07,"text":"我們直接請農業部財政部跟衛福部"},{"start":15202.23,"end":15204.23,"text":"阮市長 胡市長 莊市長"},{"start":15214.66,"end":15216.66,"text":"委員好"},{"start":15216.87,"end":15218.87,"text":"這個政府到底是怎麼了"},{"start":15219.2,"end":15221.2,"text":"一個馬鈴薯發芽"},{"start":15221.33,"end":15223.33,"text":"明明就是以前"},{"start":15223.37,"end":15225.37,"text":"只要有看到發芽的整櫃"},{"start":15225.37,"end":15227.37,"text":"被毀或者是整櫃銷毀"},{"start":15229.73,"end":15231.73,"text":"現在"},{"start":15231.03,"end":15233.03,"text":"為了這個NTE ART"},{"start":15234.63,"end":15236.63,"text":"在談判的過程當中"},{"start":15236.63,"end":15238.63,"text":"到底是誰答應的"},{"start":15238.63,"end":15240.63,"text":"食安是沒有退路的"},{"start":15240.63,"end":15242.63,"text":"食安也是絕對是"},{"start":15242.63,"end":15244.63,"text":"零容忍的"},{"start":15245.04,"end":15248.04,"text":"那到底是誰決定要退讓"},{"start":15248.04,"end":15250.04,"text":"退讓這個食安"},{"start":15250.04,"end":15252.04,"text":"請問"},{"start":15251.32,"end":15253.32,"text":"原本是有"},{"start":15253.98,"end":15255.98,"text":"只要櫃子裡頭有一顆"},{"start":15255.98,"end":15257.98,"text":"就整個銷毀或者是整個退運"},{"start":15257.98,"end":15259.98,"text":"那現在決定"},{"start":15261.9,"end":15263.9,"text":"只要把那個發芽的"},{"start":15263.9,"end":15265.9,"text":"或者是爛的丟掉"},{"start":15265.9,"end":15267.9,"text":"但是以適時尺為主"},{"start":15267.9,"end":15269.9,"text":"40丘的一顆好幾"},{"start":15269.9,"end":15271.9,"text":"進來有幾萬顆"},{"start":15271.9,"end":15273.9,"text":"有幾顆"},{"start":15273.9,"end":15275.9,"text":"這是25噸"},{"start":15275.9,"end":15277.9,"text":"大概"},{"start":15277.3,"end":15279.3,"text":"8萬3千多顆"},{"start":15279.3,"end":15281.3,"text":"8萬多顆"},{"start":15281.56,"end":15283.56,"text":"那在這個密閉式空間"},{"start":15283.56,"end":15285.56,"text":"在運送的時候"},{"start":15285.56,"end":15287.56,"text":"那他那顆爛掉"},{"start":15287.56,"end":15289.56,"text":"潛伏期"},{"start":15288.61,"end":15290.61,"text":"1到3天"},{"start":15290.61,"end":15292.61,"text":"嚴重的是7天"},{"start":15292.61,"end":15294.61,"text":"那你把那一顆"},{"start":15293.94,"end":15295.94,"text":"這個到這個離選"},{"start":15295.94,"end":15297.94,"text":"離別的這個"},{"start":15298.18,"end":15300.18,"text":"這個工廠裡頭去選"},{"start":15300.18,"end":15302.18,"text":"那請教誰選"},{"start":15302.89,"end":15304.89,"text":"現在台灣的量體有幾家可以選"},{"start":15304.89,"end":15306.89,"text":"工廠"},{"start":15306.89,"end":15308.89,"text":"自己選"},{"start":15308.89,"end":15310.89,"text":"有何個幾家"},{"start":15310.89,"end":15312.89,"text":"有何個幾家"},{"start":15312.93,"end":15314.93,"text":"有何個幾家"},{"start":15314.93,"end":15316.93,"text":"那個不是合格不合格"},{"start":15316.93,"end":15318.93,"text":"那個是必須要申請"},{"start":15318.93,"end":15320.93,"text":"你先申請就給你申請才可以做"},{"start":15320.93,"end":15322.93,"text":"幾家"},{"start":15322.93,"end":15324.93,"text":"幾家"},{"start":15324.93,"end":15326.93,"text":"衛福部"},{"start":15326.93,"end":15328.93,"text":"來衛福部幾家"},{"start":15328.94,"end":15330.94,"text":"講了快兩個禮拜"},{"start":15330.94,"end":15332.94,"text":"沒有辦法讓民眾清楚"},{"start":15332.94,"end":15334.94,"text":"什麼事"},{"start":15334.94,"end":15336.94,"text":"進口的業者有21家"},{"start":15336.94,"end":15338.94,"text":"那離選的這個工廠"},{"start":15338.94,"end":15340.94,"text":"有幾家"},{"start":15340.94,"end":15342.94,"text":"發覺有一顆爛掉的"},{"start":15342.94,"end":15344.94,"text":"你要送到這個工廠去離選"},{"start":15344.45,"end":15346.45,"text":"有幾家"},{"start":15346.45,"end":15348.45,"text":"目前有幾家"},{"start":15348.45,"end":15350.45,"text":"請問目前有幾家"},{"start":15350.54,"end":15352.54,"text":"目前不合格只有兩家"},{"start":15352.54,"end":15354.54,"text":"我們有在驗而已"},{"start":15354.54,"end":15356.54,"text":"一個40尺的墨櫃就有8萬顆"},{"start":15358.45,"end":15360.45,"text":"我們只有兩家你住得來嗎"},{"start":15360.45,"end":15362.45,"text":"你住得來嗎"},{"start":15362.98,"end":15364.98,"text":"你住得來嗎"},{"start":15364.98,"end":15366.98,"text":"一年我們進口的有15萬"},{"start":15366.98,"end":15368.98,"text":"事實上就是"},{"start":15368.98,"end":15370.98,"text":"業者要給你改造計畫"},{"start":15370.98,"end":15372.98,"text":"那這個部分就是我們衛生局"},{"start":15372.98,"end":15374.98,"text":"會跟這邊會決督導"},{"start":15374.98,"end":15376.98,"text":"所以目前有兩家"},{"start":15377.64,"end":15379.64,"text":"你可以幫你離選的"},{"start":15379.64,"end":15381.64,"text":"報告委員在邊境查驗"},{"start":15381.64,"end":15383.64,"text":"不合格就退運"},{"start":15383.64,"end":15385.64,"text":"那剛才所問到的是說"},{"start":15385.64,"end":15387.64,"text":"如果要到一個指定場所"},{"start":15387.64,"end":15389.64,"text":"那指定場所就衛福部來講"},{"start":15389.64,"end":15391.64,"text":"曾經有申請過指定場所"},{"start":15391.64,"end":15393.64,"text":"是有兩家業者"},{"start":15393.64,"end":15395.64,"text":"曾經來申請過的"},{"start":15395.64,"end":15397.64,"text":"曾經來申請過的"},{"start":15397.64,"end":15399.64,"text":"建檔還可不可以做"},{"start":15399.64,"end":15401.64,"text":"還可不可以幫你離選"},{"start":15401.64,"end":15403.64,"text":"我們在當下"},{"start":15403.64,"end":15405.64,"text":"不合格當下"},{"start":15405.64,"end":15407.64,"text":"我們在地區提改善計畫的時候"},{"start":15407.64,"end":15409.64,"text":"就衛生局就是現場查核"},{"start":15409.64,"end":15411.64,"text":"這個在食品衛生安全"},{"start":15411.64,"end":15413.64,"text":"是業者有需要的時候"},{"start":15413.64,"end":15415.64,"text":"提出來"},{"start":15415.64,"end":15417.64,"text":"衛生局是監察"},{"start":15417.64,"end":15419.64,"text":"這個是食品衛生安全的部分"},{"start":15419.81,"end":15421.81,"text":"那你說你沒有退讓"},{"start":15421.81,"end":15423.81,"text":"以往你只要查到一顆"},{"start":15423.81,"end":15425.81,"text":"絕對整櫃退"},{"start":15425.81,"end":15427.81,"text":"現在重點"},{"start":15427.81,"end":15429.81,"text":"是在查到一顆"},{"start":15429.81,"end":15431.81,"text":"把那個爛的拿掉"},{"start":15431.81,"end":15433.81,"text":"其他的可以來篩選"},{"start":15433.81,"end":15435.81,"text":"甚至有告訴我們"},{"start":15435.81,"end":15437.81,"text":"我們會一顆一顆來篩選"},{"start":15437.81,"end":15439.81,"text":"你有這個能力嗎"},{"start":15439.81,"end":15441.81,"text":"你們有這個能力嗎"},{"start":15441.81,"end":15443.81,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":15443.81,"end":15445.81,"text":"您剛才所問的部分"},{"start":15445.81,"end":15447.81,"text":"是檢疫的部分"},{"start":15447.81,"end":15451.81,"text":"我剛才所說明是食品衛生安全當下"},{"start":15451.81,"end":15453.81,"text":"我們先從第一個階段"},{"start":15453.81,"end":15455.81,"text":"為什麼已經兩個禮拜"},{"start":15455.81,"end":15457.81,"text":"還是沒有辦法給我們的民眾講清楚"},{"start":15459.35,"end":15461.35,"text":"誰可以回答這個問題"},{"start":15462.15,"end":15464.15,"text":"誰可以回答這個問題"},{"start":15464.15,"end":15466.15,"text":"農業部"},{"start":15466.15,"end":15468.15,"text":"在目前美國"},{"start":15468.15,"end":15470.15,"text":"如果實用跟加工的話"},{"start":15470.15,"end":15472.15,"text":"他會在今年的七月之後"},{"start":15472.15,"end":15474.15,"text":"到明年之間他才會進"},{"start":15474.15,"end":15476.15,"text":"不管進不進"},{"start":15476.15,"end":15478.15,"text":"政府已經告訴你二月份公告的"},{"start":15478.15,"end":15480.15,"text":"對我們已經準備配套措施"},{"start":15480.15,"end":15482.15,"text":"我們跟衛福部"},{"start":15482.15,"end":15484.15,"text":"兩個部會"},{"start":15484.15,"end":15486.15,"text":"一起來"},{"start":15486.15,"end":15488.15,"text":"正在討論當中很快就會定案"},{"start":15488.15,"end":15490.15,"text":"正在討論當中很快就會定案"},{"start":15490.15,"end":15492.15,"text":"還沒定案"},{"start":15492.15,"end":15494.15,"text":"昨天前天大前天"},{"start":15494.15,"end":15496.15,"text":"這幾天告訴我們的"},{"start":15496.15,"end":15498.15,"text":"叫我們放心一顆一顆檢查會落實嗎"},{"start":15498.15,"end":15500.15,"text":"做得來嗎"},{"start":15500.15,"end":15502.15,"text":"做沒問題啊這個可以做啊"},{"start":15502.15,"end":15504.15,"text":"一顆一顆檢查沒問題"},{"start":15505.52,"end":15507.52,"text":"花芽的進到加工廠"},{"start":15507.52,"end":15509.52,"text":"不是這個好幾"},{"start":15509.52,"end":15511.52,"text":"一一顆不是這樣"},{"start":15511.52,"end":15513.52,"text":"花芽的進到加工廠"},{"start":15513.52,"end":15515.52,"text":"一顆一顆檢查"},{"start":15515.52,"end":15517.52,"text":"是嗎"},{"start":15517.52,"end":15519.52,"text":"沒有錯啊進到加工廠的話"},{"start":15519.52,"end":15521.52,"text":"進到加工廠的部分過去是只有0.6"},{"start":15521.52,"end":15523.52,"text":"就是進口的0.6才會有花芽"},{"start":15523.52,"end":15525.52,"text":"檢到才會有花芽"},{"start":15525.52,"end":15527.52,"text":"那檢出來0.6到這個指定加工廠之後"},{"start":15527.52,"end":15529.52,"text":"到這個指定加工廠之後"},{"start":15529.52,"end":15531.52,"text":"我們就會去請這個加工廠"},{"start":15531.52,"end":15533.52,"text":"他要有監視器"},{"start":15533.52,"end":15535.52,"text":"他現在可以跟你領選的這兩家"},{"start":15536.52,"end":15538.52,"text":"有來申請的"},{"start":15538.52,"end":15540.52,"text":"你一定要詳實"},{"start":15540.52,"end":15542.52,"text":"讓民眾到目前為止"},{"start":15542.52,"end":15544.52,"text":"我們只有一個要求"},{"start":15543.83,"end":15545.83,"text":"食安的問題絕對不能退讓"},{"start":15545.83,"end":15547.83,"text":"對啦"},{"start":15547.83,"end":15549.83,"text":"你告訴我們目前的方案你的人力夠嗎"},{"start":15549.83,"end":15551.83,"text":"我們要請問這個"},{"start":15551.83,"end":15553.83,"text":"在加工廠"},{"start":15553.83,"end":15555.83,"text":"挑選啊用機器挑"},{"start":15555.83,"end":15557.83,"text":"由他們加工廠"},{"start":15557.83,"end":15559.83,"text":"派專員然後用監視器"},{"start":15559.83,"end":15561.83,"text":"機器還是要有人去看"},{"start":15561.83,"end":15563.83,"text":"有人去操作啊"},{"start":15563.83,"end":15565.83,"text":"專人監督啦"},{"start":15565.83,"end":15567.83,"text":"所以我們一個結論也就是食安的部分"},{"start":15567.83,"end":15569.83,"text":"對"},{"start":15569.83,"end":15571.83,"text":"一定是零容忍不可以馬虎"},{"start":15571.83,"end":15573.83,"text":"沒有錯我們都是一樣"},{"start":15573.83,"end":15575.83,"text":"第二個我們絕對不贊成"},{"start":15575.83,"end":15577.83,"text":"整櫃裡頭有"},{"start":15577.83,"end":15579.83,"text":"這個馬鈴薯發芽的"},{"start":15579.83,"end":15581.83,"text":"因為其他的部分"},{"start":15581.83,"end":15583.83,"text":"不是那一顆挑掉就好了"},{"start":15583.83,"end":15585.83,"text":"其他的交互感染的部分"},{"start":15585.83,"end":15587.83,"text":"那個是"},{"start":15587.83,"end":15589.83,"text":"龍葵檢或者是相互感染的話"},{"start":15589.83,"end":15591.83,"text":"發委員"},{"start":15591.83,"end":15593.83,"text":"只要他那一批有發芽的"},{"start":15593.83,"end":15595.83,"text":"我們都會去抽驗"},{"start":15595.83,"end":15597.83,"text":"只要有驗出龍葵檢"},{"start":15597.83,"end":15599.83,"text":"200ppm以上都會退運"},{"start":15599.83,"end":15601.83,"text":"整批都會退運"},{"start":15602.84,"end":15604.84,"text":"所以本席在這邊還是強調"},{"start":15604.84,"end":15606.84,"text":"校園的食安"},{"start":15606.84,"end":15608.84,"text":"我們絕對是"},{"start":15608.84,"end":15610.84,"text":"一定要把關"},{"start":15610.84,"end":15612.84,"text":"國人的食安我們也一定要"},{"start":15612.84,"end":15614.84,"text":"強制安全"},{"start":15614.84,"end":15616.84,"text":"你們到目前為止所有的配套"},{"start":15616.84,"end":15618.84,"text":"沒有一個部門"},{"start":15618.84,"end":15620.84,"text":"可以說明清楚"},{"start":15620.84,"end":15622.84,"text":"所以讓國人非常的憂心"},{"start":15622.84,"end":15624.84,"text":"所以我們希望你剛剛又給我們透露一個"},{"start":15624.84,"end":15626.84,"text":"現在才農業部跟"},{"start":15626.84,"end":15628.84,"text":"衛福部在討論"},{"start":15628.84,"end":15630.84,"text":"你們的方案本席個人希望"},{"start":15630.84,"end":15632.84,"text":"你們要好好地去把你的方案弄出來"},{"start":15632.84,"end":15634.84,"text":"謝謝楊創業委員"},{"start":15634.84,"end":15636.84,"text":"你真的你要推浪"},{"start":15636.84,"end":15638.84,"text":"你還是要把關"},{"start":15638.65,"end":15640.65,"text":"因為至少你的食品做出來"},{"start":15640.65,"end":15642.65,"text":"你的薯條薯片你"},{"start":15642.65,"end":15644.65,"text":"正式把它貼上嘛我這個來源"},{"start":15644.65,"end":15646.65,"text":"是有經過這個櫃子裡頭的"},{"start":15646.65,"end":15648.65,"text":"是有這個"},{"start":15648.65,"end":15650.65,"text":"發芽的部分"},{"start":15650.65,"end":15652.65,"text":"含有發芽的部分所剔除的"},{"start":15652.65,"end":15654.65,"text":"這個原食材"},{"start":15654.65,"end":15656.65,"text":"讓民眾可以安心嘛可不可以這麼做"},{"start":15658.04,"end":15660.04,"text":"可不可以這麼做"},{"start":15660.04,"end":15662.04,"text":"這個是後市場"},{"start":15662.04,"end":15664.04,"text":"可不可以這麼做"},{"start":15664.04,"end":15666.04,"text":"根本進不到加工廠"},{"start":15666.04,"end":15668.04,"text":"就被挑掉了"},{"start":15668.04,"end":15670.04,"text":"他人潛伏期嘛"},{"start":15669.63,"end":15671.63,"text":"所以到現在還是講不清楚"},{"start":15671.63,"end":15673.63,"text":"把你們的方案趕快提出來"},{"start":15673.63,"end":15675.63,"text":"謝謝楊創業委員"},{"start":15675.63,"end":15677.63,"text":"跟以前一模一樣"},{"start":15677.63,"end":15679.63,"text":"我們等一下委員會有臨時提案"},{"start":15679.63,"end":15681.63,"text":"請練習的委員把握時間4分鐘"},{"start":15681.63,"end":15683.63,"text":"鍾嘉斌鍾嘉斌鍾嘉斌委員不在"},{"start":15683.63,"end":15685.63,"text":"接下來請郭奕勤委員"},{"start":15693.08,"end":15695.08,"text":"好謝謝主席"},{"start":15695.08,"end":15697.08,"text":"那這個有請農業部的房間署"},{"start":15697.08,"end":15699.08,"text":"還有那個衛福部的需要署"},{"start":15699.08,"end":15701.08,"text":"好"},{"start":15702.26,"end":15704.26,"text":"衛福部莊次長"},{"start":15704.26,"end":15706.26,"text":"需要署菜賦署長"},{"start":15707.02,"end":15709.02,"text":"一 二 三"},{"start":15709.05,"end":15711.05,"text":"我 農業部"},{"start":15711.02,"end":15713.02,"text":"胡次長"},{"start":15714.13,"end":15716.13,"text":"委員好"},{"start":15715.44,"end":15717.44,"text":"好 我想這個馬鈴薯的問題"},{"start":15717.44,"end":15719.44,"text":"大家問了很多"},{"start":15719.44,"end":15721.44,"text":"我就另外一個問題也是我一直在"},{"start":15721.44,"end":15723.44,"text":"追對這個問題 我想今天剛好兩個"},{"start":15723.44,"end":15725.44,"text":"部會的這個主責會單位其實都在"},{"start":15725.44,"end":15727.44,"text":"有包含我們的房間署 包含我們的需要署"},{"start":15727.44,"end":15729.44,"text":"都在 我剛剛才從8樓"},{"start":15729.44,"end":15731.44,"text":"上來 那剛剛也質詢了"},{"start":15731.44,"end":15733.44,"text":"這個衛福部部長 雖然我們這個動物"},{"start":15733.44,"end":15735.44,"text":"新藥是7月1號我們確定是"},{"start":15735.44,"end":15737.44,"text":"之前要註銷了 這已經確定"},{"start":15737.44,"end":15739.44,"text":"註銷了 但是現場我收到"},{"start":15739.44,"end":15741.44,"text":"許多來自一線的動物"},{"start":15741.44,"end":15743.44,"text":"醫師 獸醫師他們還是在跟我說"},{"start":15743.44,"end":15745.44,"text":"目前已經有一些所謂的藥廠"},{"start":15745.44,"end":15747.44,"text":"已經開始傾向所謂的選擇性的供貨"},{"start":15747.44,"end":15749.44,"text":"也就是說他們開始在擔憂"},{"start":15749.44,"end":15751.44,"text":"過去我人用的藥品我現在可以用的"},{"start":15751.44,"end":15753.44,"text":"但是現在已經開始他們因為"},{"start":15753.44,"end":15755.44,"text":"法規的不清楚 因為配套的不清楚"},{"start":15755.44,"end":15757.44,"text":"因為我們的管理機制不清楚"},{"start":15757.44,"end":15759.44,"text":"所以他們現在開始藥廠限縮了"},{"start":15759.44,"end":15761.44,"text":"也會影響到整個所有的這個"},{"start":15761.44,"end":15763.44,"text":"毛小孩他們在就醫的一個權利"},{"start":15763.44,"end":15765.44,"text":"那我就要請問了"},{"start":15765.44,"end":15767.44,"text":"如果就像剛剛這個衛福部部長"},{"start":15767.44,"end":15769.44,"text":"他提供給我的這個資訊"},{"start":15769.44,"end":15771.44,"text":"我們今天早上呢"},{"start":15771.44,"end":15773.44,"text":"一進辦公室就說了這個資訊"},{"start":15773.44,"end":15775.44,"text":"他說我們回到所謂的"},{"start":15775.44,"end":15777.44,"text":"這個用藥的部分"},{"start":15777.44,"end":15779.44,"text":"我們回到緊急用藥的平台"},{"start":15779.44,"end":15781.44,"text":"但是我請教一下"},{"start":15781.44,"end":15783.44,"text":"我們的這個"},{"start":15785.98,"end":15787.98,"text":"食藥署 你知道這個用藥平台"},{"start":15787.98,"end":15789.98,"text":"申請流程大概要多久嗎"},{"start":15791.04,"end":15793.04,"text":"可以告訴我我要多久嗎"},{"start":15793.05,"end":15795.05,"text":"如果我今天毛小孩在那邊"},{"start":15795.05,"end":15797.05,"text":"躺在那邊要等著急診請問"},{"start":15797.05,"end":15799.05,"text":"等到所謂的緊急用藥"},{"start":15799.05,"end":15801.05,"text":"要申請的平台請問"},{"start":15801.05,"end":15803.05,"text":"大概完整下來要多久"},{"start":15803.05,"end":15805.05,"text":"好 兩到三週對不對"},{"start":15805.05,"end":15807.05,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":15807.05,"end":15809.05,"text":"剛剛申請的部分是請國外進來"},{"start":15809.05,"end":15811.05,"text":"請問一下我的毛小孩躺在那邊"},{"start":15811.05,"end":15813.05,"text":"我兩天都等不下去"},{"start":15813.05,"end":15815.05,"text":"我兩個小時都不能等"},{"start":15815.05,"end":15817.05,"text":"我要等兩到三週我是不是直接打給"},{"start":15817.05,"end":15819.05,"text":"寵物殯葬業比較快"},{"start":15819.22,"end":15821.22,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":15821.22,"end":15823.22,"text":"一直關注這個問題"},{"start":15823.22,"end":15825.22,"text":"這個問題為什麼今天剛好兩個都在"},{"start":15825.22,"end":15827.22,"text":"我們也在檢討就是說"},{"start":15827.22,"end":15829.22,"text":"因為全聯會會將"},{"start":15829.22,"end":15831.22,"text":"我下午就會在立法院"},{"start":15831.22,"end":15833.22,"text":"我會開一個一線的"},{"start":15833.22,"end":15835.22,"text":"獸醫師他們來到現場"},{"start":15835.22,"end":15837.22,"text":"反應這樣子的一個困境"},{"start":15837.22,"end":15839.22,"text":"因為這個問題三天兩頭就會出現"},{"start":15839.22,"end":15841.22,"text":"對 我們好了"},{"start":15841.22,"end":15843.22,"text":"負面表列願不願意"},{"start":15843.22,"end":15845.22,"text":"為什麼我講正面表列跟負面表列"},{"start":15845.22,"end":15847.22,"text":"現在我們採用的是正面表列"},{"start":15847.22,"end":15849.22,"text":"正面表列我舉例一百種可以用"},{"start":15849.22,"end":15851.22,"text":"但一百種之外的我每一個都要"},{"start":15851.22,"end":15853.22,"text":"每一個如果新加進來的都要申請"},{"start":15853.22,"end":15855.22,"text":"對不對 是 好"},{"start":15855.22,"end":15857.22,"text":"負面表列是什麼 負面表列我只要"},{"start":15857.22,"end":15859.22,"text":"匡列 不管是食藥署"},{"start":15859.22,"end":15861.22,"text":"還有獸醫師他們有共同的共識"},{"start":15861.22,"end":15863.22,"text":"我把不能驗的"},{"start":15863.22,"end":15865.22,"text":"先匡進來 剩下的讓"},{"start":15865.22,"end":15867.22,"text":"他們可以回歸到他們可以"},{"start":15867.22,"end":15869.22,"text":"有用藥的自主權 可以有調劑權"},{"start":15869.22,"end":15871.22,"text":"這個部分的負面表列有這麼難嗎"},{"start":15871.22,"end":15873.22,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":15873.22,"end":15875.22,"text":"這涉及到人用藥的部分到底他的母數"},{"start":15875.22,"end":15877.22,"text":"有多大 我才知道"},{"start":15877.22,"end":15879.22,"text":"現在已經回到一萬多張的藥證"},{"start":15879.22,"end":15881.22,"text":"所以這個的母數"},{"start":15881.22,"end":15883.22,"text":"太大 而且主要是"},{"start":15883.22,"end":15885.22,"text":"在人用藥這一個"},{"start":15885.22,"end":15887.22,"text":"他們專業的"},{"start":15887.22,"end":15889.22,"text":"如果大家都有這樣子的"},{"start":15889.22,"end":15891.22,"text":"本位主義的考量"},{"start":15891.22,"end":15893.22,"text":"還是要講"},{"start":15893.22,"end":15895.22,"text":"人藥就是衛福部"},{"start":15895.22,"end":15897.22,"text":"動物用藥就是我們農業部"},{"start":15897.22,"end":15899.22,"text":"是不是這樣"},{"start":15899.22,"end":15901.22,"text":"兩邊是這樣"},{"start":15901.22,"end":15903.22,"text":"中間這一群"},{"start":15903.22,"end":15905.22,"text":"的空窗級請問到底誰"},{"start":15905.22,"end":15907.22,"text":"要來負責下午我們"},{"start":15907.22,"end":15909.22,"text":"來做談會好好地聽一聽可以嗎"},{"start":15909.22,"end":15911.22,"text":"可以請聽一線的聲音嗎"},{"start":15911.22,"end":15913.22,"text":"不然這種事情"},{"start":15913.22,"end":15915.22,"text":"三天兩頭就會出現"},{"start":15915.22,"end":15917.22,"text":"我的辦公室已經疲於奔命了"},{"start":15917.22,"end":15919.22,"text":"整個立法院大概只有我在追這件事情"},{"start":15919.22,"end":15921.22,"text":"但問題是我們有"},{"start":15921.22,"end":15923.22,"text":"三百四十萬隻的寵物"},{"start":15923.22,"end":15925.22,"text":"我有兩百多萬的四組的一個家庭"},{"start":15925.22,"end":15927.22,"text":"我擔心的還有一線獸醫師"},{"start":15927.22,"end":15929.22,"text":"他們沒有用藥自主權"},{"start":15929.22,"end":15931.22,"text":"藥師公會他們還要再加進來"},{"start":15931.22,"end":15933.22,"text":"一個莫名其妙的角色"},{"start":15933.22,"end":15935.22,"text":"我們到底這件事情可以"},{"start":15935.22,"end":15937.22,"text":"撐多久"},{"start":15937.22,"end":15939.22,"text":"謝謝委員真的"},{"start":15939.22,"end":15941.22,"text":"打重心你真的謝謝委員的關注跟協助"},{"start":15941.22,"end":15943.22,"text":"現在七百三十一項"},{"start":15943.22,"end":15945.22,"text":"已經到七百三十一項"},{"start":15945.22,"end":15947.22,"text":"那七百三十一項公告為"},{"start":15947.22,"end":15949.22,"text":"就整個轉為動保用藥"},{"start":15949.22,"end":15951.22,"text":"所以大概這個項目轉為動保用藥"},{"start":15951.22,"end":15953.22,"text":"但是因為我們大家都知道"},{"start":15953.22,"end":15955.22,"text":"動保用藥我們的這個族群"},{"start":15955.22,"end":15957.22,"text":"是比較小的所以藥廠開始有考量"},{"start":15957.22,"end":15959.22,"text":"過去這動保的用藥"},{"start":15959.22,"end":15961.22,"text":"我有的是可以用人藥來做代替"},{"start":15961.22,"end":15963.22,"text":"比方說疏義就是"},{"start":15963.22,"end":15965.22,"text":"現在因為這個限制下去了"},{"start":15965.22,"end":15967.22,"text":"我人藥變成獸醫"},{"start":15967.22,"end":15969.22,"text":"是他不能取用人藥"},{"start":15969.22,"end":15971.22,"text":"所以我就說"},{"start":15971.22,"end":15973.22,"text":"負面表列才能夠根本解決"},{"start":15973.22,"end":15975.22,"text":"這樣的問題我們一起來研議好不好"},{"start":15975.22,"end":15977.22,"text":"各方的意見我們都尊重"},{"start":15977.22,"end":15979.22,"text":"各方意見我們都來收集尊重"},{"start":15979.22,"end":15981.22,"text":"下午兩點就在樓下"},{"start":15981.22,"end":15983.22,"text":"一起來討論好嗎"},{"start":15983.22,"end":15985.22,"text":"謝謝主席謝謝"},{"start":15985.22,"end":15987.22,"text":"謝謝我們先說郭議員的質詢"},{"start":15987.22,"end":15989.22,"text":"蔡英瑜蔡正前蔡正前不在蔡英瑜蔡英瑜蔡英瑜委員不在"},{"start":15989.22,"end":15991.22,"text":"蔡英瑜蔡英瑜蔡英瑜委員不在"},{"start":15991.22,"end":15993.22,"text":"葉源之葉源之"},{"start":15993.22,"end":15995.22,"text":"葉源之委員不在"},{"start":15995.22,"end":15997.22,"text":"好我們現在"},{"start":15997.22,"end":15999.22,"text":"今日登記發言的委員"},{"start":15999.22,"end":16001.22,"text":"都已經詢答完畢"},{"start":16001.22,"end":16003.22,"text":"現在開始處理臨時提案共議案"},{"start":16003.22,"end":16005.22,"text":"請醫事人員宣讀"},{"start":16007.19,"end":16009.19,"text":"按鈕"},{"start":16008.33,"end":16012.33,"text":"原農業部動植物防疫檢疫署於115年2月6日公告"},{"start":16012.33,"end":16016.33,"text":"美國產交工用馬鈴薯輸入檢疫條件"},{"start":16016.33,"end":16018.33,"text":"將交工用與先食用分流管理"},{"start":16018.33,"end":16023.33,"text":"就前者規定發芽發霉腐爛者將直送指定交工廠"},{"start":16023.33,"end":16026.33,"text":"並於選別階段整顆器制銷毀"},{"start":16026.33,"end":16029.33,"text":"違查該新制製相關配套卻複製缺乳"},{"start":16029.33,"end":16032.33,"text":"孔筍及民眾食品安全"},{"start":16032.33,"end":16034.33,"text":"諸如農業部雖於尋答時表示"},{"start":16034.33,"end":16036.33,"text":"現有17家交工業者"},{"start":16036.93,"end":16039.93,"text":"違確未能說明以申請為指定交工廠"},{"start":16039.93,"end":16041.93,"text":"之數量與檢疫量能"},{"start":16041.93,"end":16044.93,"text":"黃潤放行押運等配套機制"},{"start":16044.93,"end":16046.93,"text":"再者就指定交工廠之管理"},{"start":16046.93,"end":16048.93,"text":"農業部故認為得以"},{"start":16050.02,"end":16055.02,"text":"職務防疫檢疫法第17條第一項及同法第24條第一項第6款規定"},{"start":16055.02,"end":16059.02,"text":"處3萬至15萬元罰款"},{"start":16059.02,"end":16060.02,"text":"然該規定"},{"start":16061.09,"end":16066.09,"text":"乃繫客與輸入人或其代理人申請與完成檢疫義務"},{"start":16066.09,"end":16068.09,"text":"而非對指定交工廠之管理"},{"start":16068.09,"end":16070.09,"text":"而有誤用法令之予"},{"start":16070.09,"end":16073.09,"text":"此外對交工用馬鈴薯之查驗比例"},{"start":16073.09,"end":16075.09,"text":"行政院卓院長榮泰"},{"start":16075.09,"end":16079.09,"text":"曾稱我們會整櫃檢查每一顆拿出來檢查"},{"start":16079.09,"end":16081.09,"text":"據農業部卻抵觸"},{"start":16081.9,"end":16083.9,"text":"卓院長榮泰之指示宣示"},{"start":16083.9,"end":16086.9,"text":"及其對民眾食品安全之重視"},{"start":16086.9,"end":16089.9,"text":"謹願每批抽驗60%"},{"start":16089.9,"end":16093.9,"text":"顯著商行政院關係食品安全之政策方針"},{"start":16093.9,"end":16096.9,"text":"原要求農業部於7日內就上開問題"},{"start":16096.9,"end":16100.9,"text":"向立法院財政委員會提出交工用馬鈴薯進口檢疫配套作為"},{"start":16100.9,"end":16105.9,"text":"包刮蛋不限於指定交工廠之資格條件管理規定"},{"start":16105.9,"end":16108.9,"text":"法院依據及查驗比例之精進作為書面報告"},{"start":16108.9,"end":16112.9,"text":"提案人李彥秀、羅明采、林思敏、陳玉貞、劉舒斌"},{"start":16112.9,"end":16113.9,"text":"宣讀完畢"},{"start":16116.34,"end":16119.34,"text":"好 請問一下對於這個臨時提案"},{"start":16119.34,"end":16121.34,"text":"那個陳玉貞委員"},{"start":16121.34,"end":16123.34,"text":"我覺得是不是我們應該要寫說"},{"start":16123.34,"end":16126.34,"text":"按照這個卓院長的宣示"},{"start":16126.34,"end":16128.34,"text":"就是說進櫃的時候整櫃檢查"},{"start":16128.34,"end":16130.34,"text":"每一顆拿出來檢查"},{"start":16130.34,"end":16131.34,"text":"照這個方式去執行嘛"},{"start":16131.34,"end":16134.34,"text":"這院長的莊重的宣示吧"},{"start":16135.06,"end":16137.06,"text":"我們要求他執行的時候這樣做嘛"},{"start":16137.06,"end":16139.06,"text":"報告的時候是不是有請他寫這樣子"},{"start":16139.06,"end":16141.06,"text":"就是到時候進來的時候每一櫃"},{"start":16142.16,"end":16144.16,"text":"整櫃檢查每一顆拿出來檢查"},{"start":16144.16,"end":16145.16,"text":"這樣國人才能放心嘛"},{"start":16145.16,"end":16146.16,"text":"國人就不要進口啊"},{"start":16148.27,"end":16151.27,"text":"好 呃 卓院長的文字那個"},{"start":16152.54,"end":16153.54,"text":"農業部來"},{"start":16153.54,"end":16155.54,"text":"對不對 卓院長是說"},{"start":16155.54,"end":16157.54,"text":"整櫃檢查每一顆拿出來檢查"},{"start":16157.54,"end":16158.54,"text":"這個非常好的做法"},{"start":16158.54,"end":16160.54,"text":"事實上應該是要讓他不能進來啦"},{"start":16163.59,"end":16164.59,"text":"對啊 發押了"},{"start":16166.28,"end":16167.28,"text":"要改成發押的"},{"start":16170.68,"end":16171.68,"text":"可是發押者"},{"start":16171.68,"end":16172.68,"text":"報告主席"},{"start":16172.68,"end":16173.68,"text":"報告主席"},{"start":16173.68,"end":16175.68,"text":"院長他所講的是在"},{"start":16175.68,"end":16176.68,"text":"經過因為有花芽"},{"start":16176.68,"end":16177.68,"text":"所以我們進到加工廠"},{"start":16177.68,"end":16179.68,"text":"那個我們是絕對要"},{"start":16179.68,"end":16181.68,"text":"怎麼可以進到加工廠再來啊"},{"start":16181.68,"end":16182.68,"text":"你要進到加工廠"},{"start":16182.68,"end":16184.68,"text":"那個加工廠還是在境外"},{"start":16184.68,"end":16185.68,"text":"還沒有進到"},{"start":16185.68,"end":16186.68,"text":"那個如果說有花芽"},{"start":16186.68,"end":16187.68,"text":"有花梅"},{"start":16187.68,"end":16189.68,"text":"或者是有唬爛的話"},{"start":16189.68,"end":16192.68,"text":"那個挑掉一顆都不能進加工廠啊"},{"start":16192.68,"end":16193.68,"text":"所以即使到加工廠"},{"start":16193.68,"end":16196.68,"text":"其實他那個還是在保稅區裡面"},{"start":16196.68,"end":16197.68,"text":"就是還沒有入境"},{"start":16197.68,"end":16198.68,"text":"保稅區裡頭還沒有入境啊"},{"start":16198.68,"end":16199.68,"text":"對對對"},{"start":16199.68,"end":16200.68,"text":"你挑掉那些"},{"start":16200.68,"end":16201.68,"text":"不表示其他沒有挑掉"},{"start":16201.68,"end":16202.68,"text":"也沒有被感染啊"},{"start":16202.68,"end":16204.68,"text":"那個我是看獨立專家寫的"},{"start":16204.68,"end":16206.68,"text":"所以因為我們在邊境上的時候"},{"start":16206.68,"end":16207.68,"text":"0.6%"},{"start":16207.68,"end":16208.68,"text":"所以你們要在這個"},{"start":16208.68,"end":16210.68,"text":"主任院長說每一顆都要檢查"},{"start":16210.68,"end":16212.68,"text":"對啊 它是有花芽的啊"},{"start":16212.68,"end":16213.68,"text":"有花芽的我們是每一顆"},{"start":16213.68,"end":16214.68,"text":"不是 你沒有檢查"},{"start":16214.68,"end":16215.68,"text":"怎麼知道它有沒有發芽啊"},{"start":16215.68,"end":16216.68,"text":"就是因為檢查檢查到的時候"},{"start":16216.68,"end":16218.68,"text":"我們才要每一顆啊"},{"start":16218.68,"end":16219.68,"text":"所以整個櫃子"},{"start":16219.68,"end":16220.68,"text":"櫃子裡頭有一顆"},{"start":16220.68,"end":16222.68,"text":"有一顆就要全部整櫃"},{"start":16222.68,"end":16223.68,"text":"每一顆每一顆檢查"},{"start":16223.68,"end":16224.68,"text":"對對對"},{"start":16224.68,"end":16225.68,"text":"但是不能入境喔"},{"start":16225.68,"end":16226.68,"text":"不是 就在境外啊"},{"start":16226.68,"end":16228.68,"text":"那個是在保稅區裡面"},{"start":16228.68,"end":16231.68,"text":"就是保稅區裡頭會有加工廠是吧"},{"start":16231.68,"end":16232.68,"text":"是是是"},{"start":16232.68,"end":16234.68,"text":"保稅區現在就有加工廠了"},{"start":16234.68,"end":16235.68,"text":"現在有加工廠"},{"start":16235.68,"end":16237.68,"text":"有一些加工廠本身就有加工廠"},{"start":16237.68,"end":16239.68,"text":"那所以如果沒有在保稅區裡頭"},{"start":16239.68,"end":16240.68,"text":"加工廠就沒有辦法"},{"start":16240.68,"end":16243.68,"text":"我們會要求跟保稅區一樣的"},{"start":16243.68,"end":16245.68,"text":"這個要求的標準"},{"start":16245.68,"end":16246.68,"text":"不是不是 他都進不來"},{"start":16246.68,"end":16247.68,"text":"怎麼要求呢"},{"start":16247.68,"end":16249.68,"text":"不是 因為現在的狀況是"},{"start":16249.68,"end":16250.68,"text":"他已經進不來了嘛"},{"start":16250.68,"end":16251.68,"text":"照你的說法 怎麼要求"},{"start":16251.68,"end":16252.68,"text":"不是 有一些保稅區"},{"start":16252.68,"end":16254.68,"text":"就是在加工廠裡面耶"},{"start":16254.68,"end":16255.68,"text":"就是他進過半個數"},{"start":16255.68,"end":16257.68,"text":"所以如果有的加工廠沒有在保稅區內"},{"start":16257.68,"end":16258.68,"text":"你怎麼要求"},{"start":16258.68,"end":16261.68,"text":"那個我們會要求他們全部都要用監視器"},{"start":16261.68,"end":16262.68,"text":"然後要用"},{"start":16262.68,"end":16263.68,"text":"所以你已經讓他入境了啊"},{"start":16263.68,"end":16264.68,"text":"這樣子你還是讓他入境了"},{"start":16264.68,"end":16265.68,"text":"那個還沒有"},{"start":16265.68,"end":16266.68,"text":"那個我們還沒有簽發"},{"start":16266.68,"end":16267.68,"text":"沒有在加工"},{"start":16267.68,"end":16268.68,"text":"沒有在保稅區的加工廠"},{"start":16268.68,"end":16269.68,"text":"你要怎麼讓他"},{"start":16269.68,"end":16273.68,"text":"我們要求他完全跟保稅區一樣的這個條件"},{"start":16273.68,"end":16274.68,"text":"所以還是有入境啊"},{"start":16274.68,"end":16275.68,"text":"因為他沒在加"},{"start":16275.68,"end":16276.68,"text":"保稅區裡頭"},{"start":16276.68,"end":16277.68,"text":"那個沒有入境"},{"start":16277.68,"end":16278.68,"text":"因為我們檢疫證沒有發的話"},{"start":16278.68,"end":16279.68,"text":"他不能去做加工"},{"start":16279.68,"end":16280.68,"text":"還沒有發"},{"start":16280.68,"end":16281.68,"text":"對"},{"start":16281.68,"end":16282.68,"text":"他東西已經入境"},{"start":16282.68,"end":16283.68,"text":"但在那個標籤上還沒有入境啦"},{"start":16283.68,"end":16284.68,"text":"對對對"},{"start":16284.68,"end":16286.68,"text":"所以實體已經入境"},{"start":16286.68,"end":16289.68,"text":"但是在法律程序上他還沒有入境"},{"start":16289.68,"end":16290.68,"text":"還沒有入境"},{"start":16290.68,"end":16292.68,"text":"而且我們沒有簽發檢疫統一書"},{"start":16292.68,"end":16294.68,"text":"那這樣的話他就不能夠"},{"start":16294.68,"end":16296.68,"text":"你們為什麼一定要讓發芽的進來啊"},{"start":16296.68,"end":16298.68,"text":"為什麼不就讓他在海外就不要讓他進口"},{"start":16298.68,"end":16300.68,"text":"為什麼要那麼檢驗能力"},{"start":16300.68,"end":16301.68,"text":"你們太辛苦了吧"},{"start":16301.68,"end":16302.68,"text":"因為那個是加工"},{"start":16302.68,"end":16303.68,"text":"在加工廠裡面"},{"start":16303.68,"end":16304.68,"text":"你們為什麼要讓發芽進來"},{"start":16304.68,"end":16305.68,"text":"你們沒有那麼"},{"start":16305.68,"end":16307.68,"text":"你們的量能沒有那麼大"},{"start":16307.68,"end":16308.68,"text":"我們今天一個牛呢"},{"start":16308.68,"end":16310.68,"text":"你都沒有預算可以幫我們做"},{"start":16310.68,"end":16311.68,"text":"你有多少預算可以做這個事啊"},{"start":16311.68,"end":16313.68,"text":"有多少預算檢查每一顆馬鈴薯"},{"start":16313.68,"end":16316.68,"text":"這個是因為我們每一年需要量很多"},{"start":16316.68,"end":16318.68,"text":"而且那個發芽率很低"},{"start":16318.68,"end":16319.68,"text":"其實要量很多"},{"start":16319.68,"end":16321.68,"text":"你就沒有那麼多人可以檢查"},{"start":16321.68,"end":16322.68,"text":"你的量能做得好"},{"start":16322.68,"end":16323.68,"text":"那發芽率很低"},{"start":16323.68,"end":16324.68,"text":"你如果說一顆檢到整個"},{"start":16324.68,"end":16325.68,"text":"給人家退回去的話"},{"start":16325.68,"end":16327.68,"text":"在國際上的貿易談判上的話"},{"start":16327.68,"end":16328.68,"text":"有很多的國家就說"},{"start":16328.68,"end":16330.68,"text":"你這樣我也要求你這樣"},{"start":16330.68,"end":16331.68,"text":"所以你不會檢到一顆"},{"start":16331.68,"end":16333.68,"text":"就把他檢閉退回去就對了是嗎"},{"start":16333.68,"end":16335.68,"text":"過去目前在先實用的是這樣子"},{"start":16335.68,"end":16336.68,"text":"不會就對了"},{"start":16336.68,"end":16337.68,"text":"所以如果有一顆發芽"},{"start":16337.68,"end":16338.68,"text":"你也不會退到整顆回去喔"},{"start":16338.68,"end":16340.68,"text":"在先實用的是這樣子啊"},{"start":16340.68,"end":16341.68,"text":"就是這樣子喔"},{"start":16341.68,"end":16342.68,"text":"所以發芽也是可以進來"},{"start":16344.49,"end":16346.49,"text":"發芽也不可以進加工廠啊"},{"start":16346.49,"end":16348.49,"text":"意思就是說講清楚一點"},{"start":16348.49,"end":16350.49,"text":"如果整顆檢查到有一顆發芽的"},{"start":16350.49,"end":16352.49,"text":"你們整櫃每一顆拿出來檢查對不對"},{"start":16352.49,"end":16353.49,"text":"不是"},{"start":16353.49,"end":16354.49,"text":"先實的就退了就退了"},{"start":16354.49,"end":16357.49,"text":"但是如果他是用加工用的"},{"start":16357.49,"end":16358.49,"text":"加工用的"},{"start":16358.49,"end":16360.49,"text":"而檢到有一顆他發芽的話"},{"start":16360.49,"end":16361.49,"text":"講清楚"},{"start":16361.49,"end":16362.49,"text":"先實的喔"},{"start":16362.49,"end":16364.49,"text":"檢到有一顆有發芽的"},{"start":16364.49,"end":16365.49,"text":"就整櫃退是不是"},{"start":16365.49,"end":16366.49,"text":"對"},{"start":16366.49,"end":16367.49,"text":"OK好"},{"start":16367.49,"end":16368.49,"text":"那如果是加工的"},{"start":16368.49,"end":16369.49,"text":"檢查到有一顆有發芽的"},{"start":16369.49,"end":16372.49,"text":"你就整櫃每一顆都會檢查對不對"},{"start":16372.49,"end":16373.49,"text":"都會檢查"},{"start":16373.49,"end":16375.49,"text":"這個檢查量能是由你們檢查"},{"start":16375.49,"end":16376.49,"text":"還是由加工廠來檢查"},{"start":16376.49,"end":16377.49,"text":"加工廠"},{"start":16377.49,"end":16378.49,"text":"所以你是要給民間好"},{"start":16378.49,"end":16379.49,"text":"所以這個檢查的"},{"start":16379.49,"end":16381.49,"text":"你是負於民間嘛"},{"start":16381.49,"end":16382.49,"text":"不是你們"},{"start":16382.49,"end":16384.489999999998,"text":"公務部門檢查嘛對不對"},{"start":16384.489999999998,"end":16385.489999999998,"text":"不是我們去監督"},{"start":16385.489999999998,"end":16386.489999999998,"text":"我們也會派人去"},{"start":16386.489999999998,"end":16387.489999999998,"text":"你們就是監督"},{"start":16387.48999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"start":16957.16,"end":16959.16,"text":"你如果上面所寫的這個主決議"},{"start":16959.16,"end":16961.16,"text":"到10年後20年後"},{"start":16961.16,"end":16963.16,"text":"被我們的後代子孫嘻咬"},{"start":16964.37,"end":16965.37,"text":"今天"},{"start":16969.8,"end":16970.8,"text":"所以我就說"},{"start":16970.8,"end":16971.8,"text":"把它修正好一點"},{"start":16971.8,"end":16973.8,"text":"但是卓院長不是說說"},{"start":16973.8,"end":16974.8,"text":"我們說的"},{"start":16974.8,"end":16975.8,"text":"我們說的"},{"start":16975.8,"end":16976.8,"text":"品質很好"},{"start":16976.8,"end":16977.8,"text":"你剛剛說的是"},{"start":16977.8,"end":16978.8,"text":"卓院長說整櫃檢查每一顆拿出來"},{"start":16978.8,"end":16980.8,"text":"檢查會不會後代子孫笑"},{"start":16980.8,"end":16981.8,"text":"所以我就要加上"},{"start":16981.8,"end":16982.8,"text":"那你要去跟他講"},{"start":16982.8,"end":16983.8,"text":"市長"},{"start":16983.8,"end":16984.8,"text":"市長你現在在騷擾我們"},{"start":16984.8,"end":16986.8,"text":"台上委員會的委員"},{"start":16986.8,"end":16987.8,"text":"你指的是說"},{"start":16987.8,"end":16988.8,"text":"我們這樣子寫"},{"start":16988.8,"end":16991.8,"text":"我們剛剛質詢的委員會被國人笑"},{"start":16991.8,"end":16993.8,"text":"不是把它改成更好一點"},{"start":16993.8,"end":16994.8,"text":"更精準一點"},{"start":16994.8,"end":16995.8,"text":"因為那是卓院長"},{"start":16995.8,"end":16996.8,"text":"他就是這樣回放我們"},{"start":16996.8,"end":16999.8,"text":"卓院長就是這樣子講的"},{"start":16999.8,"end":17000.8,"text":"我一個字都沒有增加"},{"start":17000.8,"end":17002.8,"text":"剛才我在質詢的時候"},{"start":17002.8,"end":17003.8,"text":"你也是這樣回覆的"},{"start":17003.8,"end":17005.8,"text":"我也沒有增加你的字"},{"start":17005.8,"end":17006.8,"text":"我也沒有減少你的字"},{"start":17006.8,"end":17007.8,"text":"你現在告訴我說"},{"start":17007.8,"end":17008.8,"text":"我剛剛質詢會被笑"},{"start":17008.8,"end":17009.8,"text":"好"},{"start":17009.8,"end":17010.8,"text":"如果是這樣的話"},{"start":17010.8,"end":17011.8,"text":"我就說回"},{"start":17011.8,"end":17012.8,"text":"好不好"},{"start":17012.8,"end":17014.8,"text":"因為現在快一點了"},{"start":17014.8,"end":17015.8,"text":"大家都"},{"start":17015.8,"end":17016.8,"text":"不是"},{"start":17016.8,"end":17017.8,"text":"我只是因為怕一點兩點"},{"start":17017.8,"end":17018.8,"text":"今天耗到五點"},{"start":17018.8,"end":17020.8,"text":"我也跟你耗到在這裡"},{"start":17020.8,"end":17021.8,"text":"那個市長"},{"start":17021.8,"end":17023.8,"text":"就是發芽的那三個字不要加"},{"start":17023.8,"end":17025.8,"text":"因為那幾個是卓院長說的"},{"start":17025.8,"end":17028.8,"text":"我們前面有寫行政院卓院長陳稱"},{"start":17028.8,"end":17030.8,"text":"那如果他的解釋是發芽的"},{"start":17030.8,"end":17031.8,"text":"我們可以再問他"},{"start":17031.8,"end":17032.8,"text":"讓他有機會解釋"},{"start":17032.8,"end":17034.8,"text":"我們會尋到主席的指示"},{"start":17034.8,"end":17035.8,"text":"可以"},{"start":17035.8,"end":17036.8,"text":"卓院長說不定有決心"},{"start":17036.8,"end":17038.8,"text":"每一科要檢查"},{"start":17038.8,"end":17039.8,"text":"你太小看他"},{"start":17039.8,"end":17041.8,"text":"為國人捍衛史蘭的決心"},{"start":17041.8,"end":17043.8,"text":"沒有人有辦法"},{"start":17043.8,"end":17044.8,"text":"他就這樣說"},{"start":17044.8,"end":17045.8,"text":"會做得到"},{"start":17045.8,"end":17046.8,"text":"是"},{"start":17046.8,"end":17047.8,"text":"好"},{"start":17047.8,"end":17048.8,"text":"那10P改6P"},{"start":17048.8,"end":17049.8,"text":"就60%"},{"start":17049.8,"end":17050.8,"text":"這個比較沒關係"},{"start":17050.8,"end":17051.8,"text":"本來就是這樣子"},{"start":17051.8,"end":17052.8,"text":"目前就是這樣做"},{"start":17052.8,"end":17053.8,"text":"好"},{"start":17055.3,"end":17056.3,"text":"好來"},{"start":17056.3,"end":17057.3,"text":"那就現在修正了再念"},{"start":17057.3,"end":17060.3,"text":"就是第17家進口業者"},{"start":17060.3,"end":17061.3,"text":"其他的都不改"},{"start":17064.35,"end":17065.35,"text":"其他都不改"},{"start":17065.35,"end":17067.35,"text":"就照原來的臨時提案來"},{"start":17067.35,"end":17068.35,"text":"好"},{"start":17068.35,"end":17069.35,"text":"就照這樣好不好"},{"start":17069.35,"end":17070.35,"text":"有沒有意見"},{"start":17070.35,"end":17071.35,"text":"好沒有意見"},{"start":17071.35,"end":17072.35,"text":"那我們就照這個臨時提案"},{"start":17076.28,"end":17077.28,"text":"都不改"},{"start":17077.28,"end":17078.28,"text":"都不改"},{"start":17078.28,"end":17079.28,"text":"就這樣子"},{"start":17079.28,"end":17080.28,"text":"就照現在這樣子處理"},{"start":17080.28,"end":17081.28,"text":"好那我們就"},{"start":17081.28,"end":17082.28,"text":"大家沒有意見"},{"start":17082.28,"end":17083.28,"text":"那我們就照這樣子"},{"start":17083.28,"end":17084.28,"text":"臨時提案來做處理"},{"start":17084.28,"end":17085.28,"text":"修正通過"},{"start":17085.28,"end":17086.28,"text":"好"},{"start":17086.28,"end":17087.28,"text":"好"},{"start":17087.28,"end":17088.28,"text":"好"},{"start":17088.28,"end":17089.28,"text":"好"},{"start":17089.28,"end":17090.28,"text":"好"},{"start":17090.28,"end":17091.28,"text":"好"},{"start":17091.28,"end":17092.28,"text":"好"},{"start":17092.28,"end":17093.28,"text":"好"},{"start":17093.28,"end":17094.28,"text":"好"},{"start":17094.28,"end":17095.28,"text":"好"},{"start":17095.28,"end":17096.28,"text":"好"},{"start":17096.28,"end":17097.28,"text":"好"},{"start":17097.28,"end":17098.28,"text":"好"},{"start":17098.28,"end":17099.28,"text":"好"},{"start":17099.28,"end":17100.28,"text":"好"},{"start":17100.28,"end":17101.28,"text":"好"},{"start":17101.28,"end":17102.28,"text":"好"},{"start":17102.28,"end":17103.28,"text":"好"},{"start":17103.28,"end":17104.28,"text":"好"},{"start":17104.28,"end":17105.28,"text":"好"},{"start":17089.49,"end":17090.49,"text":"來"},{"start":17090.49,"end":17091.49,"text":"本次會議做如下的決定"},{"start":17091.49,"end":17094.49,"text":"報告跟說明及答詢完畢"},{"start":17094.49,"end":17097.49,"text":"委員質詢未答覆或請補充資訊"},{"start":17097.49,"end":17099.49,"text":"請相關機關於一週內"},{"start":17099.49,"end":17101.49,"text":"以書面答覆委員"},{"start":17101.49,"end":17104.49,"text":"另有要求期限者從其所訂"},{"start":17104.49,"end":17106.49,"text":"中央民國115年度"},{"start":17106.49,"end":17107.49,"text":"中央政府總預算"},{"start":17107.49,"end":17109.49,"text":"有關主計總處審計部"},{"start":17109.49,"end":17111.49,"text":"審計部台北市審計處"},{"start":17111.49,"end":17113.49,"text":"審計部新北市審計處"},{"start":17113.49,"end":17115.49,"text":"審計部桃園市審計處"},{"start":17115.49,"end":17117.49,"text":"審計部台中市審計處"},{"start":17117.49,"end":17119.49,"text":"審計部台南市審計處"},{"start":17119.49,"end":17122.49,"text":"審計部高雄市審計處"},{"start":17122.49,"end":17125.49,"text":"第27款直轄市集"},{"start":17125.49,"end":17128.49,"text":"縣市政府第三項一般性補助款"},{"start":17128.49,"end":17132.49,"text":"財政部主管第一幕財政部第二幕國庫署"},{"start":17132.49,"end":17134.49,"text":"第13項一般性補助款"},{"start":17134.49,"end":17137.49,"text":"其他第一至第8幕災害準備金"},{"start":17137.49,"end":17138.49,"text":"第二準備金"},{"start":17138.49,"end":17141.49,"text":"均另擇期繼續審查"},{"start":17141.49,"end":17145.49,"text":"本次會議委員若有相關預算提案"},{"start":17145.49,"end":17148.49,"text":"請於今天下午5點前"},{"start":17148.49,"end":17152.49,"text":"送到我們財政委員會會議議事人員收件"},{"start":17152.49,"end":17155.49,"text":"本次會議議程已進行完畢"},{"start":17155.49,"end":17158.49,"text":"讓不在場的委員補題書面質詢"},{"start":17158.49,"end":17159.49,"text":"一併列入紀錄"},{"start":17159.49,"end":17160.49,"text":"刊登公報"},{"start":17160.49,"end":17162.49,"text":"並請議事人員協助處理"},{"start":17162.49,"end":17163.49,"text":"我們今天散會"},{"start":17163.49,"end":17165.49,"text":"謝謝大家大家辛苦了"},{"start":17213.15,"end":17214.15,"text":"謝謝大家辛苦了"},{"start":17214.33,"end":17215.33,"text":"謝謝大家辛苦了"},{"start":17215.33,"end":17216.33,"text":"謝謝大家辛苦了"},{"start":17216.56,"end":17217.56,"text":"左邊"},{"start":17218.62,"end":17219.62,"text":"右邊"}],"speakers":[{"total_seconds":1652.15,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_00","speaker":"SPEAKER_00","embedding":"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"},{"total_seconds":1577.05,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_01","speaker":"SPEAKER_01","embedding":"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