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開會也要精神一點大家好好謝謝我們現在開會進行討論事項請宣讀"},{"start":379.501,"end":401.954,"text":"討論事項 一審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於行政院收入預算第五款第一項第二幕即國家發展委員會及所屬單位預算部分二審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於行政院主管行政院國家發展基金離島建設基金花東地區永續發展基金及促進轉型正義基金訊息完畢好"},{"start":405.546,"end":433.098,"text":"本日本席排定的議程是尋答115年度專制政府總預算關於行政院稅務預算我們第五款第一項第二幕即國家發展委員會及所屬單位預算部分以及附屬單位預算非營業部分關於行政院主管行政院國家發展基金離島建設基金花東地區永續發展基金以及促進轉型正義基金"},{"start":434.189,"end":439.318,"text":"好 針對今天所列的議程 先請國家發展委員會葉軍賢主任委員報告"},{"start":448.946,"end":475.617,"text":"主席各位委員今天應邀就國家發展委員會及所屬檔案管理局115年度施政計畫及收支預算案編列內容向貴委員會提出報告深感榮幸以下僅就114年度預算執行情形以及115年度施政方向與重點還有預算編列的情形分別報告如下"},{"start":476.397,"end":494.982,"text":"那115年度預計剩餘較上年度增加是4億1759萬4千元那主要為預計投資公司發放資現金鼓勵收入增加那115年度剩餘繳酷數100億元佔預計剩"},{"start":501.705,"end":527.946,"text":"與甚至4.45%那繳庫後剩餘連同以前年度未分配剩餘將留待以後年度營運所需那現在就115年度施政方向的施政的方向與重點跟貴會報告那本會作為政府推動國家發展的機關負責整體政策的規劃協調"},{"start":530.087,"end":537.43,"text":"審議與資源配置面對全球政經局勢瞬息萬變產業供應鏈結構從主題能工智慧快速發展等諸多挑戰本會將以持續以積極行動與創新思維推動經濟創新升級社會公平正義與"},{"start":548.833,"end":573.853,"text":"環境永續發展那全力打造台灣成為經濟日不落國那本會重點業務有第一創新領航提升產業競爭優勢那這個部分的話分別有大概有三項那第一項是協調推進AI新四大建設那第二個穩健推動五大信賴產業第三個以資金驅動創新價值與新創發展"},{"start":578.24,"end":601.439,"text":"那第二就匯聚人才形塑新世代國際競爭力方面的話也有三點那第一個就是建構全球攬財生態系那第二個就是精進國內育才賠財政策還有周延雙語環境那第三個跨域合作落實區域均衡發展這個部分來講的話也有大致上也有"},{"start":603.2,"end":620.268,"text":"有五個重點那第一個重點就是開展六大區域產業及生活圈那第二是推動造園投資國家發展那第三打造永續供好地方創生那第四再造中興新村創新風貌第五深化淨林公正轉型2.0"},{"start":621.849,"end":638.474,"text":"那接下來是有關精進治理強化公共決策效能這個部分那這個部分的話有四個目標第一個就是推動區域生活全社會論性治理以及精進公共建設計畫治理"},{"start":640.374,"end":651.905,"text":"還有協調推動法規條室與優化經商環境第四就是開啟國家檔案創新服務新里程那115年度預算編列情形這個部分稅務這個部分的話115年度稅務的預算表本會編列了"},{"start":661.021,"end":670.913,"text":"有836萬6千元那檔案管理局編列了334萬2千元那合計編列了1170萬8千元那較114年度預算增列了大概221萬5千元"},{"start":680.985,"end":707.473,"text":"那主要是針鏈民間團體成豬中興新村房地租金收入及國家檔案管附屬服務設施委託經營權經營權利金這部分那第二在稅出的部分方面115年度稅出預算本會編列了36億685萬1千元那檔案管理局編列5億7千"},{"start":710.394,"end":736.528,"text":"八百五十二萬兩千元那合計編列四十一億八千五百三十七萬三千元那較一百一十四年度的預算簡列了兩億六千九百四十七萬七千元那主要的簡列是因為國家檔案典藏及服務建設計畫在一百一十四年度編準那最後一年的經費"},{"start":738.188,"end":756.502,"text":"那另外 增列了打造永續共好地方創生計畫那國庫 撥充離島建設基金等經費那內容 其內容說明如下第一 就本會的部分那一般行政編列了8億3千零51萬5千元"},{"start":759.964,"end":771.147,"text":"第二規劃及推動國家發展計畫綜合業務這個部分編列了6231萬8000元那主要是編會行政院施政計畫那規劃國家發展計畫那推動雙語政策等業務那第三"},{"start":780.869,"end":799.807,"text":"經濟政策協調推動財經措施那這部分編列的4990萬5000元那主要是辦理經濟經濟以及景氣情勢分析那協助國家永續發展目標的推動等業務那第四促進社會發展及計劃審議協調這部分總共編列了5465萬"},{"start":806.553,"end":817.962,"text":"1000元那主要辦理的項目為公司協力推動開放政府還有社會發展計畫審議與協調那第五在促進產業發展方面這個部分編列了5億8741萬2000元那主要用在運"},{"start":826.889,"end":847.348,"text":"用在運用人工智慧 AI 帶動物聯網創新的發展還有推動新創佈局全球行銷國際以及推動及審議創新產業重要計畫等業務第六 在促進人力資源發展這個部分 編列了8592萬2千元"},{"start":851.071,"end":873.83,"text":"那主要是在研議與協調推動人力資源相關政策及計畫那強化延攬國際人才等業務那第七 健全國土規劃及經營管理那這個部分編列了4億5397萬6千元那主要在辦理公共建設計畫與區域離島發展政策之審議及協調還有地方創生之協調推動等業務"},{"start":881.294,"end":902.024,"text":"第八在績效管理這個部分編列了4682萬1000元那主要在辦理政策追蹤與管理機制之規劃協調還有施政計畫績效管理與機制之規劃那第九健全資訊管理提升應用效率這個部分編列了8502萬8000元那主要是"},{"start":907.947,"end":932.565,"text":"在發展及管理國發資訊系統還有資訊傳輸韌性強化計畫等業務第十在推動法規鬆綁與革新強化經濟競爭力這個部分編列了2729萬8000元那主要在推動前瞻數位科技法制研析以及推動法規條式還有推動國際法規調和和倡議"},{"start":937.108,"end":956.807,"text":"那第11在中興新村北中核心維運這部分編列了大概4億1810萬5千元那主要在用在公有資產活化建設計畫還有中興新村地方創生育成村營運等業務第12離島建設基金這個部分編列了9億元"},{"start":961.411,"end":983.351,"text":"那主要是國庫撥充離島建設基金的經費那在檔案管理局的部分編列了5億7,852萬2千元那主要是在辦理檔案管理綜合企劃管考檔案徵集檔案典藏維護以及檔案應用服務等最後"},{"start":984.571,"end":1008.737,"text":"本會及所屬檔案管理局的預算系配合政府整體施政目標依輕重緩急排列優先順序那在行政院核定的稅出預算額度範圍內配置編列那期盼各位委員持續給予本會最大的支持與鼓勵那以上報告敬請指教那這個部分是那個"},{"start":1012.599,"end":1032.279,"text":"國發會及所屬單位預算那還有一個部分就離島基金的這個部分那就離島基金這部分的話我先就行政院國家發展基金這部分跟委員做個報告那行政院國家發展基金簡稱國發基金主要目的在加速產業創新加值那促進經濟轉型及國家發展"},{"start":1035.462,"end":1058.057,"text":"那配合國家產業發展策略投資在增加產業效益或改善產業結構有關的重要事業那配合國家產業發展策略那龍帶資金與增加產業受益或改善產業結構有關之輔導計畫及協助各中央目的事業主管機關開辦融資計畫那"},{"start":1063.342,"end":1080.756,"text":"另外就另外也這些業務也包括協助各中央目的事業主管機關辦理投資的計畫那還有就是說也協助中央目的事業主管機關來來作為經濟發展培訓人才那改善產業結構及相關"},{"start":1085.82,"end":1105.13,"text":"四項所推動計畫的支出那在115年度預計執行的項目有大致上有三個部分第一個就是投資業務這個部分來講的話是配合國家產業發展的策略持續推動多元投資措施那包括直接投資創業投資創業天使投資以及百億主題專案投資計畫那投資重點鎖定在五大信賴產業"},{"start":1111.853,"end":1129.658,"text":"並配合推動AI新十大建設政策期盼能夠透過資金的挹注與策略性的投資強化產業升級創新動能與全球競爭力第二個在融資業務這個部分來講的話主要是配合國家產業發展政策"},{"start":1131.051,"end":1149.645,"text":"持續辦理歡迎台商回台投資專案貸款還有海外投資融資貸款等計畫那第三在補助業務方面那配合國家人才培育政策補助教育部辦理國家重點領域研究學院等那在115年度預算編列"},{"start":1151.247,"end":1158.194,"text":"請請這部分來講的話 在115年度編列的業務總收入達到370億1753萬8千元那總支出為79億9194萬6千元那本期剩餘大概290億2559萬2千元"},{"start":1174.107,"end":1198.093,"text":"那現在就離島建設基金這個部分跟委員會報告那離島建設基金為了協助離島地區建設行政院依照離島建設條例第16條規定設置離島建設基金那從112年起離島縣府之計劃需求重新逐年編列預算撥補基金"},{"start":1198.593,"end":1218.027,"text":"然後以持續協助離島地區推動相關計畫與建設發展那在第六期也就是112年到115年的離島綜合建設實施方案裡面迄今執行到第四年那其中115年度基金補助了114項的計畫總計約有9.12"},{"start":1224.109,"end":1237.441,"text":"議員那計畫內容依循六期方案四大永續發展主軸方向推動那重要執行內容包括第一個確保基本民生民行第二個維護島嶼環境資源然後"},{"start":1242.626,"end":1255.791,"text":"還有第3個推動智慧創新轉型第4個打造熱火創生家園那在115年度編列基金來源9億121萬7000元那基金用途9億176萬3000元3000元然後期末基金餘額有8億8339萬3000元然後"},{"start":1270.45,"end":1296.523,"text":"現在就花東地區永續發展基金這部分跟委員會報告那為了創造花東地區發展亮點與機會行政院依照花東地區發展條例規定設置花東地區永續發展基金那用於支援地方相關建設優化區域產業發展以形塑在地特色那第四期也就是113年到116年的重要計畫與執行成果"},{"start":1297.583,"end":1312.262,"text":"部分第一個打造慢經濟產業推動智慧城市第二個智慧醫療照護支持安心生育第三培育未來人才傳承在地文化第四提升救災量能落實淨零轉型"},{"start":1313.343,"end":1338.423,"text":"那在115年度重點執行的項目有推動慢活新經濟轉型第二個形塑在地觀光的聚落第三培育原住民文化新動能第四強化偏鄉醫療照護第五提升防災韌性及效能第六深化淨零生活實踐那在115年度編列基金來源有600萬元那基金用途有"},{"start":1339.304,"end":1340.525,"text":"29億4208萬8千元那期末基金餘額有140億320萬1千元那"},{"start":1352.421,"end":1380.514,"text":"那現在就促進轉型正義基金這部分跟委員會報告那未落實自由民主憲政秩序行政院依促進轉型正義條例第七條規定設置促進轉型正義基金作為推動轉型正義人權教育還有轉型正義相關文化事務之用那115年預定執行的項目部分屬於延續性應續辦理事項"},{"start":1381.394,"end":1395.911,"text":"亦參考檢討逐年業務量能與進程提出開創性的事項加強公司協力推動轉型正義工作相關部會並以前一年度計畫成果進一步辦理"},{"start":1396.731,"end":1412.208,"text":"轉型正義教育、推廣與社會溝通等事項提升社會大眾對轉型正義的認知裡頭包括內政部、教育部、法務部、衛生福利部、文化部、原住民委員會及國發會等7個機關共補助1億7410萬1千元"},{"start":1419.502,"end":1426.166,"text":"那在115年度編列基金來源有7583萬元那基金用途1億8648萬6000元那期末基金餘額有12億1660萬3000元那最後國發會國發基金將持續"},{"start":1441.052,"end":1461.024,"text":"轉投資在增加產業效能或改善產業結構等重要的事業那協助促進國內產業發展同時加強轉投資事業的監督管理協助轉投資事業強化公司治理提升國發基金整體投資效益另外針對離島及花東地區國發會將協助當地的建設與開發"},{"start":1467.968,"end":1494.523,"text":"提升當地居民的生活品質均衡台灣的發展此外促轉基金將持續挹注相關部會及民間推動政治暴力創傷療癒強化各級學校推動轉型正義教育平復國家不乏與識別及處置加害者轉型正義政治檔案收整運用與研究開放"},{"start":1495.683,"end":1514.728,"text":"以及威權象徵處置及權力恢復等事宜並適度結合民間力量以公私協力的模式落實轉型正義的工作符合促轉基金設立意旨精神那以上報告敬請各位委員先進指教致辭謝謝"},{"start":1523.356,"end":1550.531,"text":"好 謝謝國會業主委的報告 非常詳細好 這個本日的議程 包括基金的部分 所列討論事項何必詢答委員之前主席做以下的宣告 每位委員發言時間本會委員五分鐘 必須延長一分鐘 非本會委員四分鐘 上午十一點 接著發言登記首先請登記第一位陳廷輝委員諮詢"},{"start":1565.267,"end":1568.568,"text":"謝謝召委我們請主委國發會葉主委主委好主委我還是要跟您討論一下你記不記得我在這個質詢台當中有跟您就教就是我們台南捷運的一個進度也就是我們國發會掌握多少"},{"start":1594.059,"end":1611.672,"text":"那主委有去了解了嗎那個相關的那個同仁有去有對於這個部分有做一些研究啦那譬如說像委員很重視的像台南捷運藍線的一些綜合規劃這個部分的話行政院已經核定藍線對"},{"start":1614.314,"end":1627.409,"text":"藍線現在剩最後一里路對 已經剩最後一里路現在是要是否趕得及今年年底發包好 現在是藍線的延伸"},{"start":1628.85,"end":1653.613,"text":"還有深綠線還有紅線延伸線接高鐵深綠線接南科4到南科123我們的紅線是接高雄希望未來可以接我們高雄的機場捷運目前從當時候我直循環到現在的進度大概也有一個月了"},{"start":1655.333,"end":1672.091,"text":"那請問呢這個部分跟委員報告齁台南捷運藍線延伸的可行研究的話這個部分交通部還在努力當中那至於那個台南捷運紅線、深綠線的可行性研究以及台南捷運綠線、黃線的可行性研究還沒有到"},{"start":1674.794,"end":1692.87,"text":"三條 三條從延伸線 深綠線 紅線你們早就評估過了 結果呢全部到行政院那邊 給的資訊就是說 運量不足所以我上次跟你講的 說你們要去了解"},{"start":1694.554,"end":1709.485,"text":"你們要非常清楚了解結果現在都停擺狀態然後市政府也被你們嚇到了每次來來去去你們都說運量不足都要求說他們先做綠線所以他們就趕了一條綠線通過議會再"},{"start":1713.588,"end":1724.422,"text":"這個今年的這個3月通過議會為什麼因為他們說每次上來都鬼打牆給的資訊都說我們要先發展綠線我都一直強調捷運怎麼可能從舊城區開始"},{"start":1731.451,"end":1753.506,"text":"你沒有看到未來性光施工你就會被踩煞車了光溝通就有問題了你沒有像他們先看到未來性不可能從舊城區可以先施工所以我們一個月以來全部都停擺中央也停擺 地方也停擺"},{"start":1760.031,"end":1784.004,"text":"我昨天有再次拜託這個部分一定要趕快把車子開動啊你如果停在那裡永遠都動不了所以 主委是不是可以讓我們台南看到一點曙光這三條藍線的延伸深綠線還有紅線"},{"start":1787.806,"end":1813.117,"text":"起碼讓台南市政府有點信心啦現在還丟在台南市政府 他們也不知道怎麼改啊每一次如果中央給他們資訊都是說 運量不足他要怎麼改運量的部分是要整個串聯起來才有運量啊沒有串聯怎麼運量你光用這一點給他們穿小鞋他們就沒有辦法再提後續了"},{"start":1817.697,"end":1845.791,"text":"所以 拜託一下 主委因為現在行政院都是你們之前給的資訊就是說 運量不足還是我請我同仁回答委員這個問題 可能會比較可以精神一點跟委員報告 其實大概捷運南線延伸大家 包括財主單位比較考量大概就是它運轉之後"},{"start":1847.83,"end":1866.435,"text":"然後財務上會出現問題為什麼財務會出現問題就是運量嘛他會認為運量不足嘛運量只是其中一部分那我們會比較希望說台南市比到高雄市因為沿線委員剛剛有提到沿線比較有空曠的地方有一些開發行為就可以補足"},{"start":1870.697,"end":1887.398,"text":"他們已經有調整了已經有調整了所以你要把這樣的訊息很清楚給台南市政府而且要給規劃單位顧問公司也就是我們需要的是我們沿線廠區的共同開發"},{"start":1888.88,"end":1908.186,"text":"這是第一點然後再加運量你沒有這樣的部分根本沒有辦法讓市政府可以再送出修正版本現在三條線藍線的延伸深綠線還有紅線全部都卡關現在卡在哪裡 市政府"},{"start":1908.706,"end":1924.144,"text":"跟委員報告 我會主動聯繫台南市這邊把這些 這些再跟他們溝通因為運量其實不是唯一的 主要是說希望有其他的部分他廠區開發 共同開發 他們有在補送一版版本"},{"start":1925.265,"end":1941.874,"text":"那空曠的地方在哪裡哪邊可以做共同開發這個部分你要很明確跟他講我的重點在聯合開發在附近有哪些共同的空地可以做聯合開發的你們要提出來這就非常精確啊否則每次都鬼塔牆"},{"start":1948.615,"end":1973.05,"text":"好這個部分再擺脫從我們的延伸線深綠線跟紅線這個部分然後再來一個就是我們西北唐鐵狼帶的振興前導計畫這些都已經送到我們國發會了那這些預算的部分再拜託你們開了幾次會了這部分開了幾次"},{"start":1974.646,"end":1985.676,"text":"來 沒關係 跟委員報告因為西北 因為分兩個部分一個是塘鐵本身 這個是交通部已經協助規劃了對 已經我們的鐵道基金協助規劃了所以我講的這是前導計畫那前導計畫的部分 現在有五個事業提案那上一次委員有開會決議說委員會在台北再招會 討論你們已經 他們已經收集了 你們有初步瞭解"},{"start":2002.149,"end":2023.476,"text":"對 我們大概有跟部會對接有對接了好 那我們現在已經可以開會囉我們可以再邀集一次會議囉我們會建議委員開會 我們能不能盡量把它收斂好的 謝謝感謝謝謝陳寧恆委員主委先請回座來 下位執行請洪義祥委員"},{"start":2031.971,"end":2034.953,"text":"好謝謝主席然後接下來的話我們請這個國發會請國發會業主委副委員長好"},{"start":2046.223,"end":2066.138,"text":"這個我想這個預算裡面我大概都有看然後我想今天跟你討論的是這件事情就是說在我們國發基金裡頭因為ART的這個關係雖然你的ART MOE我們現在立法院還沒有收到但是呢根據這個2500億的一個美金的一個保證"},{"start":2069.793,"end":2090.348,"text":"那初步的話呢 當時行政院這個政府院長的話呢 他說大概準備金是62.5億美金大概我們要分五年啊那這個部分可不可以跟委員分享一下我們那個是期 不是年分五期啊 五期 好那槓桿的倍數大概就20倍嘛"},{"start":2091.172,"end":2118.618,"text":"保證成數是五成所以那時候是在政府院長那邊好 那這個地方來講的話我們就看到這裡頭所以我們想要了解一下這一個國發基金在這一個融資的信保這一塊的機制還有一些法源依據因為為什麼因為我們在這個地方來講國發基金你說做國內的融資對不對 投資"},{"start":2119.84,"end":2122.13,"text":"這很正常但是我們現在這個是"},{"start":2124.732,"end":2146.868,"text":"對對對其他國對不對那企業去投資然後是國家提供這樣的融資保證那這個地方的法源依據跟信保的機制因為你們之前有討論嘛在差不多3月30號有說明會邀集38家公民銀行共同來參與對不對那大概第一期國發基金說要出大概8億美金嘛240億台幣所以這個法源跟這個機制"},{"start":2151.004,"end":2177.493,"text":"第一個在那個我們那個國發基金裡面就有裡面就有一條就是說行政院專案核准的那一個專案核准的話我們就可以做這個也是一個國家的一個政策因為我們之前也有也有做過那個離岸封店那因為這個部分這個要不要經過立法院這個部分應該不用因為像我們行政院院長說的就可以專案核定就可以"},{"start":2178.298,"end":2204.145,"text":"對這個部分是屬於專案核定的因為我們一般的規範大概在法規明定都是國內的投資那當然在這個會有一個破口這個破口就是行政院長專案核可除外所以這一段的話就變成說你看剛剛你也回答就是沒辦法送到立法院我們大概也只能事後所以這個可能就是一個全民監督的一個黑箱的一個"},{"start":2205.617,"end":2216.863,"text":"這個信用融資的保證這邊跟委員分享像我們以往在做融資保證那個部分到目前為止上一次做的話是0就是所有的那一個default rate是0"},{"start":2217.253,"end":2233.987,"text":"所以其實整個的機制在運作其實明白了過去的投資或融資都沒有問題不代表未來好不好凡是投資融資都有風險但我想要跟委員分享說我們機制在運作上面來講是蠻完善的我只是點出這個問題因為你也講得很清楚因為法規上的確有這一條行政院長專案核定"},{"start":2242.284,"end":2256.11,"text":"那我剛剛第二個問題你也說這個我們立法院沒辦法事先我們也大概只能事後再來看第二個就是我們國發基金的盈餘的運用因為根據過去來講的話大概從111年到113年"},{"start":2259.212,"end":2271.964,"text":"我們有盈餘大概都做一個腳庫啦E3還超額的一個腳庫嘛其他就是穩定那114年你的盈餘我看你編列出來是384.92億腳庫的話盈餘這邊全數保留那115年編列的話是盈餘290.26腳庫是在100億那我為什麼這樣講"},{"start":2282.318,"end":2302.295,"text":"在這當中因為回到我們前面講的就是國發基金這裡頭在對美ART這邊的話出8億美金大概差不多是240億所以我就那時候就在懷疑懷疑而已就是你的114年盈餘這一塊地方的話扣起來感覺好像就是為了這個8億的240億"},{"start":2305.643,"end":2309.905,"text":"沒有這個應該跟那個完全沒有關係因為我們後面的其實我們後面我們會跟那個財主單位去討論就是說有一些盈餘其實我們是可以不用繳庫的那個部分的話那你的發育美金要從哪裡國發基金"},{"start":2323.593,"end":2344.529,"text":"對 會從國發基金但是我們那個是一個準備金啦我們也不是說鋪在那一邊那還是要先圈起來啦還是要先圈起來好不好我覺得你就是這個大概我的猜測應該沒有問題我也不敢叫你說沒有啦 因為這個我也不敢叫你回答一時會弄啦是沒有關係的將來你就看就知道了"},{"start":2345.39,"end":2360.932,"text":"再來因為是中東歐的融資基金這一塊是在2022年1月前主委龔明星這邊那我查你的預算書的時候這一個規模上面來講的話就感覺這個是他的子基金也不算你們的子基金"},{"start":2362.162,"end":2374.315,"text":"不算因為我現在沒有看到這個預算上面的編列但是你們的行政費用政府擔保責任所需的資金這個又已經支出了支應準備金3424萬所以"},{"start":2378.021,"end":2396.576,"text":"沒有在預算書看到但是又有看到這樣的支出準備金所以這是指什麼支出因為我們這是一個委外的一個表案所以這個部分我們目前是讓那個台山來負責負責這一個基金台山那個是投資不是融資喔"},{"start":2397.97,"end":2423.467,"text":"融資基金是輸贏啦,就是那個經營對,經營由輸出入銀行來負責那輸出入銀行放的話這個是國庫嗎?不算嘛可是我們現在把錢是放到這個輸出入銀行它也不算國庫啊就是說我在預算書裡頭是看不太到這樣子的支出跟費用所以我是覺得你們為什麼會這樣講?因為"},{"start":2425.458,"end":2448.563,"text":"因為在這裡頭主計處預算法的第9條有規定應擔保保證契約可能造成未來會計年度之支出者應於預算書中列表說明而且對國庫有重大影響可能要向立法院報告因為你這邊來講的話我們的這些的加保證的資金包含你現在擴大到10倍到12倍等等這些可能在未來"},{"start":2449.443,"end":2468.516,"text":"因為違約風險產生了這個費用的支出我覺得這個要根據你的預算法主計出預算法的第九條來從實編列因為這個是在科目裡頭算貨有負債貨有負債沒關係我知道這個對你太困難一下沒辦法回答那我覺得"},{"start":2469.653,"end":2489.694,"text":"回去交個書面報告給我因為我覺得這個在根據主計數預算法我們就按照法條這樣子來處理好不好因為我預算書找不到OK 好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝洪義祥委員來 主委先請回座好 下一位執行請鍾嘉斌委員"},{"start":2501.281,"end":2524.561,"text":"主席、在黨委員、先進、列席的政務卿、市長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體之類的女士先生有請葉主委請國務卿、葉主委國務院長主委好主委你今天又上報了你知道嗎今天的工商時報他說葉俊賢說能源韌性攸關國家安全怎麼說"},{"start":2526.533,"end":2549.324,"text":"因為能源的開發對於我們整個國家經濟發展來講非常重要,尤其是這一波的AI的一個讓步是的,我完全認同,所以你看現在下一頁,我們的能源韌性是全社會防衛最迫切的課題對不對,我們有一個全社會防衛的韌性課題,有五大課題嘛所以這個能源及關鍵基礎設施是其中一個"},{"start":2549.944,"end":2560.87,"text":"那另外一個,我認為跟國發會比較有關聯的,像資通跟運輸安全的韌性,你覺得目前我們國外掌控的中長人計畫,有哪些支持資通運輸韌性?委員這個部分,可不可以麻煩我同時回答一下,這個部分比較細節一點。"},{"start":2569.38,"end":2593.299,"text":"哪一位?我繼續往下看,他繼續來我繼續講其實能源韌性有10年的強化電網計畫我們在台電的10年分配了5645億分配了這麼多但是我們說的資通韌性當中我非常強調的是光纖跟海纜以及太空跟衛星,您同意嗎?"},{"start":2594.537,"end":2599.078,"text":"如果我們的資通安全韌性包括光纖海纜和太空級衛星"},{"start":2601.448,"end":2630.489,"text":"完全同意 因為這個分成水下 陸上 還有那個天羅地網就對了 好 我們往下看但是我多次啊在其他不同委員會問過九次甚至其中一次在院會針對海嵐或光纖跟海嵐因此我們發現最近的光纖海嵐在海裡面的海嵐常常被偷割斷那我們陸上的光纖只有西部幹線有島上我們東部還沒有配置 你知道嗎好 往下看"},{"start":2631.069,"end":2650.147,"text":"好 所以我們提到了除了陸上的光纖跟地下的海嵐之外呢低軌衛星是我們自通任性的最後防線目前我們台灣有四個海嵐的上岸點一個是在仿山我的故鄉屏東一個在北部的巴黎淡水跟頭城您覺得這樣的四個上岸點的海嵐是不是很容易被破壞跟切斷"},{"start":2651.681,"end":2680.45,"text":"是所以那時候我就主張要一個資訊港可能設在大武這個地方能夠作為我們台灣強化資通韌性的一個資訊港您覺得有道理嗎我們這個可以來試好但是除了之外呢我們目前是不是有一個太空中心它有一個發射站放在哪裡放在那個九棚嘛放在九棚所以這個低軌衛星也是支撐我們天羅當中資通韌性的一個很重要的所以我稱它為資訊港而太空港往下看"},{"start":2681.05,"end":2704.525,"text":"所以針對太空港跟資訊港,我分別也問過了五次那我就要請教一下,如果您認同這樣的資訊港跟太空港是我們資安、資通安全、韌性的一個很重要的環節你認為目前所配置的這些地方,未來要建設的地方我們會不會考察它是不是聯外交通是否完善,對不對它的陸運交通,它是不是能夠支應衛星發射火箭的這些裝備的運送需求"},{"start":2705.305,"end":2719.187,"text":"對不對?那如果說路上的不能運,因為電量太大,他可能要海運他要來運,透過海運的港口來運送請問,主委,你認為如果我們要建置一個資通韌性的太空港跟資訊港在東部,是否這些都要一併考慮進去?"},{"start":2720.792,"end":2741.956,"text":"我覺得是好那我們就來看一下那既然是這樣子我們看看目前我們國家在資通任性上已有的計畫我看到就一個就是國家太空科技發展長城計畫第三期108到11710年編列了250億要精進任務精進技術挑戰任務培育人才還要建立產業鏈好你覺得這樣夠嗎"},{"start":2744.517,"end":2766.597,"text":"我覺得可能可以加公共建設啦公共建設基礎建設那這個公共建設要由我們貴會哪個部門來主政呢由國科會這個部份這是國科會那基礎建設怎麼是國科會要哪些基礎建設要不要聯外交通要不要海運要不要陸運的設施因為國科會會提報那個公共建設的那一個計畫然後我們會審那從後你們哪裡來審"},{"start":2769.64,"end":2772.301,"text":"送到我們這邊那他目前有一個國家發射場域設置中...那只有發射場域是不夠的我們講的是包括要培育人才對不對要挑戰任務要有精進技術還要堅持產業鏈好往下看其實我來看的呢"},{"start":2786.648,"end":2803.364,"text":"知通任性的中長程計畫台灣的天羅地網光纖海欄還有我們的低軌衛星他需要去考慮到包括從高雄到屏東往到台東這些地方太空中心不是只是一群人在那邊試射科研火箭而已太空港的建制他需要"},{"start":2804.045,"end":2832.916,"text":"很多龐大的設備它需要道路運輸更大的它需要海運運輸那經濟部這邊要負責製造交通部這邊要去佈建這些交通設施那國發會是不是要來統籌還是你認為是國科會我們我們應該可以負責所謂的管考啦你們是負責管考對好那如果是負責管考那很好那麼今天我就往下看了所以說目前有沒有一個資通訊的中長程計畫在你們管考當中這個部分資通訊有沒有"},{"start":2835.745,"end":2846.157,"text":"我剛剛講的是資通韌性喔你說能源韌性很重要啊工商時報今天給你貼了一個很大的全版啊那請問資通韌性有沒有中長程機會在目前國發會管考"},{"start":2847.745,"end":2873.081,"text":"我跟委員報告 管稿分成三級 在院管制的部分我是問有沒有嘛 你告訴我在你們這邊有沒有這個我們要查一下要查一下 很好 我給你時間查我這裡面希望你們對資通韌性的中長能計畫當中應該把我剛剛所說的低軌衛星的太空港跟它相貴的產業鏈還有我們的資訊港 光纖跟海嵐 它所上岸的地點以及它所要建立的海陸交通和零組件的產業鏈這個預算規模你可以參考一下強化電網韌性的10年5500億"},{"start":2877.524,"end":2903.641,"text":"然後呢 您什麼時候可以給我一個這樣的一個擬案 夏業我們三個月各位別有猜中了 我助理姐一格有說可能要三個月好啦 就給你三個月謝謝主委 謝謝主席謝謝 謝謝委員主席可以有精準啦令我覺得非常意外 非常精準謝謝鍾佳斌委員 的確非常精準來 下一位質詢賴瑞榮 賴瑞榮"},{"start":2907.066,"end":2908.868,"text":"主委我先請教台灣運口推估在2065年會跌破1200萬這個問題嚴不嚴重"},{"start":2927.448,"end":2946.854,"text":"蠻嚴重的很嚴重的問題國防衛政府來說這都是一件很嚴肅的問題它不僅是國家安全其實也是台灣未來競爭力的問題那我們看一下生育率其實歷來最低從2024年一路跌往下跌現在我們已經變成是全球生育率最低的國家國科衛這個也要作為很嚴肅的一個課題"},{"start":2950.239,"end":2963.746,"text":"是吧?是是是那我再來問一下喔那日本跟韓國都有做很多的努力特別是韓國做了很多一些措施的努力主委我問你你認為什麼樣的措施讓韓國這些努力有效果它從2023年到2024、2025慢慢的緩步的上升上來了"},{"start":2967.488,"end":2993.28,"text":"這部分跟委員報告就韓國這部分它有一小段的一個人口增長潮那個增長潮大概在1992年到1994年那剛好這一段的增長潮到現在為止的話剛好是生育年齡所以或許有部分原因是因為這樣子那另外跟委員分享就是說韓國在整個鼓勵生育的這個部分來講的話那整個社會的支持提供的相對會比我們多"},{"start":2993.86,"end":3013.714,"text":"因為他有很多藝人都會在跟大家分享說他的家庭生活有多好這樣子我的意思是說當韓國都正視到這問題的嚴重性他們也做了很多國家政策去做的時候我們孩子國家一起養這個方向也應該要努力的去把這個做因為我們現在很嚴重而且我覺得我們現在下跌的速度是相當快的"},{"start":3014.494,"end":3031.593,"text":"所以我認為就國發費的高度要把這個當作是一個很重大的問題而且應該整合各部位的資源確實認真去面對不管是從育兒津貼到相關的價甚至於到住宅的政策都應該更加強加大力道啦我認為要加大這個力道"},{"start":3032.634,"end":3054.992,"text":"就這個部分來講的話府跟院這一邊都開過蠻多次會那這個部分最主要主責的是那個陳時中政委這邊但我們這邊都會跟陳時中這邊做一個協調然後一起把這個陳政委主責但是很多的幕僚單位應該是國防會要來協助因為他設計到跨部會見的一個而且這也是一個國家的重大問題"},{"start":3059.655,"end":3088.197,"text":"所以我希望這一塊在幕僚作業上面把剛剛這個主委也提到了其實韓國有很多成功的經驗的啦那我覺得我們應該要學習掌握到他們成功的經驗然後來推動我真的認為孩子要國家要一起養甚至孩子要國家養當國家把孩子當作他的資產資源的時候一起來協助年輕的父母我們才能夠更鼓勵年輕父母來做生育啦這件事情一定要做不管是從你的"},{"start":3089.598,"end":3106.471,"text":"相關的津貼甚至於到你的照顧育兒過程的照顧甚至於到你的住宅政策等等我覺得要全面性的做這樣才能夠讓年輕人父母他敢去做生育對 因為在目前為止的話台灣就是會面臨就是說不婚不育嘛"},{"start":3107.111,"end":3129.296,"text":"那很大的一個部分就是說年輕人找不到合適的一個對象那即使結婚之後的話很多因素啦找不到對象甚至於結婚了以後要不要生甚至生了一個要不要生第二個每一個都是艱困的挑戰啦那我跟你說國家要把這些門檻不斷的降低才能夠讓年輕人有更多選擇的機會不然恐怕他們都會很大的壓力不管是就他們經濟上面"},{"start":3129.816,"end":3157.967,"text":"他們的工作生活甚至居住環境都會遇到很大的壓力這個國外已經有其他有很多國家的經驗除非什麼時候會給出一個比較完整的一個整體的想法出來因為可能在最近府跟院都會有一個比較重大的一個宣布我們等那個所以最近應該會有啦這個重大的宣示我認為這個是一個很重大同時也是對年輕父母對年輕人一個重大的支持好那我們期待盡速的提出這樣一個方案出來了好"},{"start":3158.447,"end":3186.621,"text":"再來我請教一下其實高雄的地方創生很多也都需要國發會大力支持那現在有15個案在進行當中有兩個案還在輔導當中總共有17個案主委這個還是要請主委能夠大力國發會能夠大力支持因為這個對於每一個不管是比較需要的地方它都很多很重要它能夠讓地方的年輕人才留下來讓地方有更好的發展機會我希望主委這個要加大力道"},{"start":3187.481,"end":3204.851,"text":"因為最近還有兩個案子在輔導當中一個案子是順豐海島海鮮觀光市我希望加大力道主委請您要盯緊加大力道這個包含在秋文的選區包含在我們都有也在我的選區也都有包括我們未來的高雄也都要"},{"start":3205.271,"end":3220.411,"text":"加大這個力道我們希望讓更多地方上人才能夠留下來地方有更好的機會另外新創產業很重要但是我還是要提醒國發會所有的計畫幾乎偏重在北部包括你們的這個潛力新創你們的創業綻放計畫裡面"},{"start":3222.393,"end":3245.332,"text":"獎金的幾乎台北就佔了46.5 將近一半 高雄只佔到9而已我希望 呃 主委要有意識的去解決這個問題 你要有意識的去把協助地方 不然這個數字上其實是非常明顯的光台北就佔了一半 新北又佔了15 齁 再加上幾乎整個三分之二 幾乎集中在整個中北部了"},{"start":3245.832,"end":3268.209,"text":"那這個對於中南部的新創的發展是非常不利的強者越強 弱者越弱這個對於整個發展上更加不利 主委 怎麼做目前就去年來講的話 我們持續的在比如說像國發基金的話 在南部設立了一個辦公室那我們的一些青培站的話 也會盡量往中南部這個地方去做一些佈建"},{"start":3268.809,"end":3293.643,"text":"主委我希望直接看到最後的指標啦就KPI來看就將來的時候直接再下次我執訓你的時候這個數字已經改變了好不好我希望看到這樣結果我希望主委用這樣的角度去要求你的同仁們必須看到數字的改變南部增加了比例增加了這才能對整個有所幫助好不好好謝謝主委好謝謝委員好謝謝代表總委員好主委先請回座下一位執訓請楊瓊英委員"},{"start":3307.932,"end":3311.573,"text":"我們首先來看在4月28號的時候你們公布了3月份的景氣對策 信號是39分雖然連續亮出了第4顆的紅燈 卻是比上個月"},{"start":3335.257,"end":3361.612,"text":"下滑了2分那也是最近這10個月來首度轉落所以我們進一步的觀察也就是中東的地緣政治跟原物料一直在上漲波動的這個情況那所以呢影響到這個下半年來幾乎大家都是轉去保守我們也看到外銷訂單的動向也出現了這個減緩那所以在整個你的營業的這個氣候測驗點呢"},{"start":3364.594,"end":3366.615,"text":"由穩定綠燈轉為黃藍燈那這顯示除了AI的相關產業之外我們的傳統產業也已經出現了觀看"},{"start":3378.632,"end":3394.205,"text":"光芒還有降溫的這個現象產生那所以可以說是產業間的級距是差距越來越大在這樣的一個情況之下如果我們只是以AI的出口動能跟內需的"},{"start":3395.406,"end":3414.083,"text":"來作為這些的一個支撐那換句話說在整個你們定調為第二季的景氣是穩健的那會不會導致成在總體是樂觀但是在結構它是轉弱的所以本席首先要請教主委"},{"start":3414.744,"end":3433.391,"text":"也就是當製造業信心轉弱外銷的動能也趨緩的情況之下傳統產業已經出現明顯的觀望期的時候那你要怎麼去做怎麼去應對如果我們只是還是以AI出口支撐整個"},{"start":3434.631,"end":3460.779,"text":"這一個景氣那對外來說是穩健的我相信這樣子的一個景氣的一個判讀是在整個反映所有的產業它是有落差的是有落差的所以請教主委也就是說未來你在整個看景氣是不是會調整這個指標也提出了分產業的景氣的判讀機制請說"},{"start":3462.86,"end":3478.149,"text":"這個部分因為我們那個景氣指標吼有包含所謂的製造業跟服務業那甚至前甚至前一陣子我們都還要再考慮說是不是要把中經驗的那個PMI把它放進來這樣子那我想就依照目前的這個指標來講的話他"},{"start":3480.291,"end":3504.933,"text":"經過一定的那一個專家學者去做調整那我們也會再請教專家學者是不是要做這樣一個分類但目前看起來是看起來是還算是一個穩定的就是說他的燈號其實跟著我們的經濟的整個的成長發展其實是還算有一些match所以這就是剛才本席跟你討論的總體你是樂觀你穩健但是他結構是在衰落"},{"start":3505.734,"end":3520.535,"text":"那我們應該是要也要看到結構在衰落的時候政府要怎麼協助他所以換句話說你的景氣燈你到底要怎麼樣去分類要怎麼樣加入這些元素我們才能夠真正協助到所有的產業"},{"start":3522.016,"end":3548.882,"text":"你們去思考你剛剛也說了要加注幾個幾個這個因子項目會那你把你們預計要怎麼做尤其在我們的傳統產業裡頭本行是非常非常的關注而且一定要協助他們台灣今天之所以能夠有這樣的一個經濟規模傳統產業是功不可沒功不可沒所以我們在這個階段的時候一定要全面的去照顧他們"},{"start":3550.782,"end":3560.649,"text":"對 跟委員報告就是說我上任之後的話其實對於中經院做的那個PMI其實我故意把它分兩個一個是半導體一個是非半導體這個就對了嘛就是連體景氣產業景氣燈你也要去分啦才能夠真正看到產業的一個實際狀況嘛"},{"start":3569.415,"end":3583.003,"text":"放假是一樣 你們去看方法怎麼樣來順便資料給本席接下來本席要跟你討論的地方創生因為在這個3月13號的時候呢2026年地方創生日的主題論壇上面也提出"},{"start":3583.883,"end":3611.764,"text":"我們很多的年輕人全力的參與這個地方創生但是呢似乎現在還停滯在接計畫的一個思維那同時國會會當天也代表人也說了補助不可能永久的補助但是我們在思考如果我們的制度不做實時應變的時候當補助不見的時候我們這些年輕人該當怎麼辦"},{"start":3612.946,"end":3619.578,"text":"該當怎麼辦你們自己單位都在論壇裡頭來提出所以我個人要跟你討論的就是說"},{"start":3621.862,"end":3646.307,"text":"計畫導向要怎麼樣來可以取代產業導向這個非常重要社會訓練一段時間那麼跟地方的情境來結合跟產業來結合我們要怎麼樣去協助參與創生的這些人他有產業的一個導向我覺得這一點非常的重要因為現在好像變成是補助驅動的專案競爭專案競爭所以"},{"start":3650.928,"end":3675.305,"text":"那個對 你的看法呢就這個部分跟委員分享就是說我們其實都會把地方創生的團隊我們會嘗試的讓他培養出一套的那個商業模式那在商業模式經營之前的話我們會嘗試的把地方創生團隊跟企業做對接所以在這邊跟委員報告就是說在去年我們剛好跟那個證交所"},{"start":3675.945,"end":3693.128,"text":"有討論過說地方創生這個部分是不是可以在ESG裡面讓我們放幾個例子證交所他同意了所以目前大家可以在證交所的網站上面看到有兩個範例是地方創生的範例所以這個可以指引企業的資金進入到地方創生"},{"start":3694.729,"end":3707.914,"text":"對 你務必要這麼做不然你只有計畫導向你培訓這些人要做什麼呢萬一你的補助款沒有了那怎麼辦呢所以你的產業導向這一點是非常非常的重要因為從補助導向"},{"start":3709.935,"end":3728.175,"text":"改為方向是產業存活跟營收導向這個才是我們真正的結果論所需要的嘛好這個一定要朝這個方向最後一個議題我跟您討論也就是我們最近這個AI的大發展那國會會呢也主導這個大型的這個語言"},{"start":3730.518,"end":3747.234,"text":"這個Tidy的這個部分大概是4億元那整體的發展好像到目前為止都是停滯在示範跟政策宣示的這個部分幾乎大概是如此那所以就像比如說我們現在要開發這個國產地圖我們認為高德的地圖是讓問題禁用那"},{"start":3754.261,"end":3782.064,"text":"之前有這個語言模型的這個例子到現在我們要開發自己的國產地圖 這就非常好但是我們的成效要怎麼去做我們也希望是基於產業的需求的評估來落實才能夠真正達到研發出來能夠讓要用的人可以落實的到可以實際行動用的到嘛 是不是啊"},{"start":3782.825,"end":3797.382,"text":"對 完全同意那個委員的說法因為也有一些業者跟我們反應就是說他們其實對於高德這樣的一個APP其實他們覺得它裡面的東西其實我們都可以做只是說在台灣其實市場相對比較小他們"},{"start":3798.303,"end":3816.172,"text":"沒有那個商業價值去開發但是不是說沒有商業價值開發就不開發一些像這種智慧交通的這種系統所以他們目前其實在充分應用我們政府比如說內政部的內政部所提供一些3D高清高高3D的那個圖資去開發他們"},{"start":3818.755,"end":3839.286,"text":"的進一步開發那個智慧交通這一部分的APP所以未來的話所提供的不會說只是看到說我們要在那邊等多少秒以後是會有一個比較順暢的一個策略所以主委談到這裡也就是說本期希望每一分錢都是人民的納稅錢本期之所以提出大型的語言這個模型"},{"start":3841.967,"end":3868.292,"text":"花了4億但是大家不要用大家認為GDP還比這個好用所以本期也就是希望勉勵這個我們要開發的時候一定要落實到可以實用而不是只有把錢花完就沒人要用這對不起人民的好 謝謝謝謝楊瓊怡委員主委先請回座"},{"start":3869.81,"end":3885.35,"text":"好 我們下位質詢請鄭正前委員謝謝主席 我想請一下國發會葉俊賢 葉主委 請國發會葉主委"},{"start":3891.752,"end":3914.061,"text":"委員長主委好我在想說國發會是一個跨部會的一個單位那其實非常的重要那我在想說政府為了改善那個所得分配不均的問題那這幾年也都不斷提高最低工資那我們看到一個數字平均的月薪確實有在成長可是我們也看到了就是"},{"start":3916.36,"end":3940.034,"text":"每個月所領到的薪水低於平均月薪的人也在持續的一個上漲到目前為止大概已經有將近七成的民眾每個月所領到的薪水是低於平均月薪所以說簡單從換成數字來講就是說目前就是國內有將近六百萬的民眾"},{"start":3941.448,"end":3958.798,"text":"每個月所領到的薪水是低於平均月薪低於平均月薪這樣的數字主委應該理解吧600萬這個部分將近600萬好主委我問一個數字啦你知道我們現在全國的那個受雇員工數大概有多少人"},{"start":3961.991,"end":3971.947,"text":"也不知道好啦 大概是八百五十二萬啦八百五十二萬人乘以七成就將近六百萬大概是這樣的一個數字的來源所以有將近六百萬的一個"},{"start":3974.232,"end":3999.19,"text":"的員工他們大概領大概平均月薪以下那我們也同時看到另外一個狀態就是說我們的一個平均數跟中位數的差距直接的越來越大那這表示什麼東西我們的中位數大概只有在三萬八千多跟平均月薪差距快要將近一萬這表示這幾年拉高台灣平均月薪的人"},{"start":4001.07,"end":4019.444,"text":"所在高所得的族群當中那我再看下面一個數字我們主計數的統計我們在半導體跟電子產業的那個平均月薪大概有多少你知道嗎 主委平均月薪喔對 大概這個數字對你這樣要直接講出來有點為難我直接跟你講"},{"start":4021.645,"end":4041.758,"text":"統計出來的電子跟半導體產業的平均月薪高達11萬1那他們所佔的一個就業人口比例大概只有6%點多就表示台灣整個所得一個分配狀態其實越來越嚴重那我想政府一定有責任那我們看到了就是"},{"start":4043.58,"end":4058.359,"text":"113年7月份的時候我覺得您剛上任沒有多久行政院這邊就成立一個經濟發展委員會那國會主委這邊也擔任了一個執行秘書的角色主委你知道你有這個角色嘛對不對你知道嘛OK好"},{"start":4058.96,"end":4085.912,"text":"那我們看到在這個經濟發展委員會當中的時候他特別提到一個狀態要怎麼樣讓薪資透明化因為薪資透明化是讓所得偏低的人他們在求職當中的時候能夠對他們的薪資能夠有更好的一個八個零的一個條件那所以說你在這當中也直接提到說我們要朝向在求職的時候 徵才的時候要把"},{"start":4087.174,"end":4114.429,"text":"揭露的一個薪資提高到五萬對不對我們現在是多少錢你知道嗎現在要揭露最低薪資最低要揭露薪資的門檻是多少錢你知道嗎四萬所以說你說要拉到五萬或者是說用一個最低工資的一個比例那本席提到一個方案就是用最低工資的1.75倍當作標準那跟你講的五萬差距不大"},{"start":4115.149,"end":4140.988,"text":"那我在想說國發會既然已經意識到這個要讓薪資透明化而且一個是可以做到的狀態那結果呢我們看到的情況是今年4月17號就是送到立法院 行政院送到立法院 絕對符法的修正案當中的時候對於薪資透明這個部分一句話都沒有講到主委你知道這個情況嗎這個部分我"},{"start":4141.909,"end":4162.339,"text":"你不知道這個情況這是你要管考的部分你們也提出來希望說勞動部可以這麼做結果他們完全沒有鳥你你也都不知道好那這是一個事情那我們希望就是主委因為我們對你有期待所以希望你擔任管考的這角度的時候能夠把這個事情把具體"},{"start":4163.439,"end":4185.349,"text":"去要求出來因為我們覺得這樣的狀態確實對於低薪的族群當中他們有能夠提升他們薪資、談判、籌碼的一個條件好不好好那接下來的部分我們就繼續講到國發會的一個雙語政策在整個教育體系以外的部分的時候我們看到了一個雙語預算"},{"start":4187.23,"end":4192.136,"text":"那麼在這雙五預算當中的時候我們看到在前瞻第三第四期當中編列的將近14億的狀態決算是5.7億剩餘數8.28億這表示整個執行的層面其實非常的不好非常的不好"},{"start":4202.768,"end":4227.538,"text":"那麼在整個民間雙語人才培訓計畫當中的一億三千多萬在前三四期當中的時候決算數也不到50%決算數的情況都不好請問一下那個主委這情況到底是怎麼一回事最主要是因為雙語中心那個沒有成立所以這個東西就是當時就是雙語中心還沒有成立預算就先編了那這也很怪啊因為裡面有很多因素啊就"},{"start":4228.778,"end":4246.384,"text":"立法院這邊也好像也沒有及時通過那一個就是法沒有通過預算就先編這是現在行政部門的一個問題什麼事情都不做很好的一個溝通就先往下走那我們希望針對這樣的一個狀態因為接下來今年的預算當中又編列了3200萬然後其中1200萬又是在做獎補助我們看到獎補助當中的時候量化"},{"start":4255.367,"end":4275.275,"text":"沒有一個去考核的一個指標審計部隊這個部分當中的時候認為他的成效不好然後又沒有好好去做一個考核那我們認為這部分都是那個您這邊要特別去栓緊這個螺絲的一個部分好不好這個部分我們會加強OK好"},{"start":4276.295,"end":4287.359,"text":"那我想說另外一個部分就是有關於我們的那個台灣永續發展目標這個部分台灣永續發展目標的指標裡面有"},{"start":4290.058,"end":4311.961,"text":"幾個部分 第一個部分是因為112年度跟113年度的計算標準不一樣113年度他把未達到統計週期的部分把它剔除掉所以感覺數字變得很漂亮可是其實它情況是一樣的那這個地方為什麼要改變統計的方式計算方式為什麼要修改"},{"start":4313.322,"end":4336.408,"text":"修改計算的方式 而是依不同的時間點OK好 那這個沒關係因為我們看到整個情況都差不多大概都在八成左右啦那我只是特別要提出來一個情況就是其中有幾個部分是連續五六年的情況都沒有達標包括交通部的道交死亡的人數包括經濟部的再生能源的裝置容量"},{"start":4337.108,"end":4359.215,"text":"包括環境部的人均有害事業的廢棄物的數量這幾個領域連續六年的指標都沒有達成都落後那針對這個部分因為國大會是管考的單位嘛你們怎麼去要求這幾個部會不是只有一個統計數字拿出來給大家看說你們沒有達到你們怎麼去"},{"start":4360.202,"end":4377.04,"text":"扮演好一個管考的一個角色可不可以請主委做個簡單的回應因為這個部分就交通這部分的話我們還是希望說交通部能夠多多宣導一些交通安全這個部分的話目前我們的管考的措施會希望就是說在教育方面甚至像比如說"},{"start":4379.423,"end":4393.693,"text":"高齡拿到那個駕照這個年齡的話 它現在目前也是逐步在往下去因為這幾個部分都是國發會應該要扮演好的積極的角色 可是這幾年的數字顯然都不理想那我們希望"},{"start":4394.253,"end":4418.796,"text":"國防會這邊因為是跨部會的一個狀態你們要怎麼去給他們要求確實有難度可是我們希望你們更積極扮演好管考的一個角色而不是只是把數字統計出來讓他們看而已好不好好那這部分再請後續到本辦公室這邊來做一個說明怎麼去做這些管考好謝謝以上好好謝謝曾經卿委員來主委先回座消費資金請謝鳳委員"},{"start":4429.261,"end":4432.923,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我想要請葉主委請國安委葉主委委員長葉主委早安我想請教一下 你說要在2024年讓台灣的AI實力進入前五名我想請教我們現階段排名是第幾名"},{"start":4454.093,"end":4457.377,"text":"我們目前是16,2025年那我們希望2040年可以達到前5會不會定太遠了"},{"start":4462.984,"end":4475.108,"text":"那我們有每一年都有KPI 譬如說像2028的話我們希望到142032希望到第7這樣子204年我們都不知道在哪裡了我們那邊2028、14、2034、10你也不會當國發會主委是不是你總要定一個可看到的那個目標吧像2028就是前14那2034前10那2040就是前5這樣子"},{"start":4487.127,"end":4507.381,"text":"對你都定在2040年那你希望說創下15兆的產值但是我看到了你115年度促進產業發展的預算比上年度卻少了700萬為什麼那你們的AI新十大建設的這個研發跟場域的需求是不是"},{"start":4508.041,"end":4511.646,"text":"沒有辦法趕上你們預設的目標那怎麼樣確保你們能夠有效的驅動民間的投資"},{"start":4518.939,"end":4540.119,"text":"在這邊也要麻煩委員就是多多支持我們的預算因為那個七百萬是貴會把我們刪掉那我們今年有再把它加回來那所以就希望說委員就是就這個部分來講可以多多支持我們的預算讓我們有足夠的資源為什麼被刪掉因為去年的不夠那個不夠吸引人你今年有沒有更吸引人的"},{"start":4542.617,"end":4562.014,"text":"他那個就科技計畫審查的時候就刪掉因為去年原因我不是很清楚這樣子不好意思所以就是你們那時候沒有堅持嘛那那個委員會就把你們刪掉了嘛對不對應該是有堅持啊只是"},{"start":4564.524,"end":4593.083,"text":"我們會想辦法把這個部分再補上來這樣子好那我想要再請教你喔就是保險業的資金投入公共建設的意願喔還是沒有很高那雖然說我也除了問你以外我也問了財政部莊部長等等他們對於相關的這樣的案源其實是有限的那我想請問"},{"start":4594.564,"end":4622.201,"text":"還有一個部分就是在於證券化資產證券化的部分那你們法制化的時程是怎麼樣?瑞慈是金管會在負責的那不是你們嗎?你們不是管考的所以那是金管會的部分是不是?那希望說你們能夠因為其實你們是主責的單位嘛對不對你們是主責單位那金管會的時程是如何你們有沒有"},{"start":4626.624,"end":4644.562,"text":"瑞士已經送到立法院在審議中那其實我們三個部會是共同合作的我知道 所以你們是主管的嘛我們也同時會督促金管會這個案子要努力推這樣子所以已經送到立法院了那為什麼 現在有什麼樣的困難"},{"start":4646.107,"end":4663.578,"text":"在推動上面很抱歉 現在要問金管會因為金管會在主責推這個政策你們是主責的因為所有的案子都是要從你們通過以後才能向下是不是那你們都沒有現在我問你 你都不知道然後就丟給金管會"},{"start":4664.679,"end":4679.392,"text":"是不是 你要了解那不然怎麼阻擇那怎麼樣子控管你們是主要的控管的嘛那為什麼推不動當你推不動的時候我們保險業的資金就沒有辦法回到台灣嘛"},{"start":4680.352,"end":4697.122,"text":"這是很明顯的問題嘛你如果國內沒有一個可以投資的這個標的的時候那就會導致保險業的資金沒有辦法回到台灣那我現在問你好幾個問題好像你們都把目標放得很遠那"},{"start":4698.343,"end":4718.918,"text":"大家都沒有辦法看到就是說目前你們做的項目跟未來的目標有什麼一致性那這個東西而且既然沒有一致性的情況下你們就能只能夠沿襲舊的這樣子對於未來整體政策發展性沒有一個注意啊是不是"},{"start":4719.678,"end":4739.566,"text":"跟委員報告其實我們最近都嘗試了跟財政部還有速發部去商討就是說怎麼樣把數位基礎建設把它納入到兆元投資方案裡面那這個是我們的第一步那剛剛委員提到那個Rates這個部分我們後續會持續再跟金管會討論說怎麼樣讓它再變化"},{"start":4741.227,"end":4758.944,"text":"主委你要注意一下好不好這個議題已經討論很久了那你如果沒有控管這個問題的話那對於所有不管是保險業的資金怎麼樣回到台灣怎麼樣可以投資台灣的基礎建設"},{"start":4760.285,"end":4782.144,"text":"如果沒有回到台灣的時候你這法制化的程序沒有做好的時候他們的錢就沒有辦法回到台灣那這樣子沒有辦法促進台灣整體的基礎建設的發展是不是還有我想請問一下就是國內的AI人才你說了是到2028年的缺口是35萬人對嗎那"},{"start":4784.426,"end":4787.588,"text":"我想請問因為我們過去已經修了外國專業人才研乃及僱傭法就這個部分目前實施的情況對於我們國內僑外生留台從事AI的研發的情況有什麼注意"},{"start":4810.103,"end":4819.581,"text":"喬外森、劉台從事AI這個部分的話我們會事後會我們會後會再提供給那個委員那就AI人才這個部分來講的話我們"},{"start":4821.108,"end":4847.056,"text":"在國外這一塊會比較著重在纜財這一塊所以我們今年大概會有兩波比較大規模的統合各個部會去美國去招攬AI人才那七月會有一波十月會有一波那我說目前我們招攬那個纜財的部分情況如何目前的話就外國專業人才這個部分的話大概目前為止會有8萬"},{"start":4848.513,"end":4872.848,"text":"有8萬人到台灣就AI部分所有所有所有的部分是不是那我想要請問一下因為現在就是說不管是大學我那天問了教育部長他說到了大學的AI師資也欠缺那其實我面臨到就是說彰化縣裡面中小學的這個AI的師資也欠缺那"},{"start":4873.508,"end":4890.594,"text":"這是一個源頭的問題那是不是能夠讓這個國外懶才的這些專業人士也能進到大專或者是就是高中小的學校來進行任職就是就AI的部分呢"},{"start":4891.074,"end":4920.002,"text":"這個部分我會再跟政部長討論因為我們定期都會有所謂的人才雙首長會議那我會跟他討論說怎麼樣因為他是說我那天在院會問過他他是說沒有相關的疑義但是就是說外國的人就是說專業人才就是有業界教師的這個問題在大學部分沒有疑義那國中小會比較很麻煩因為他要有一定的教師資格"},{"start":4920.842,"end":4941.361,"text":"是啊所以這個部分怎麼樣的處理因為這一個部分也會牽扯到就是說我們去年剛通過的那個攬財專法那攬財專法其實有一部分要移到今年的下半年才會實施那一部分的話會牽扯到就是說類似像AI這種特殊教師我們怎麼樣在法規上面能夠讓他們"},{"start":4942.222,"end":4967.675,"text":"能夠順利進來順利落地這樣子對那我希望說我們我們現在不求就是說我們不求都是吃米其林啦不一定都是就是說最高端的人才但是必須要有實務經驗以及能夠傳承技術給目前我們的大學還有希望說能夠向上向下延伸到我們的高中小好不好好謝謝謝謝委員主委先回座"},{"start":4972.421,"end":5001.358,"text":"在下會之間請邱益穎委員謝謝主席我請一下國發會國發會葉主委委員早主委早主委這個幾個問題請教我想前陣子這個有關於高德地圖喔對不起等一下"},{"start":5008.295,"end":5022.363,"text":"有關於這個高德地圖的使用那我想這個到底這個限制或者是未來的未來性會是怎麼樣這一方面我想這個高德地圖"},{"start":5023.703,"end":5038.092,"text":"民眾會開始使用它會Download這個APP當然有它的這個功能的便利性比如它的3D導航或者是紅燈倒數等等但是實際上這個資安風險是非常非常高的您同意嗎我同意"},{"start":5039.193,"end":5068.09,"text":"結果中國就罵我們說我們這是反智反科技其實我在想這個不是反智不是反科技我覺得很多的資通訊包括這些APP對於國家安全的危害對於很多的資訊往後台往中國去傳送這個才是我們很重要應該要考量的一個因素之一對 因為民眾假如下載高德的話他等於就是要把他的位置"},{"start":5069.671,"end":5087.069,"text":"傳給中國那甚至說譬如說我們平常在用的Google裡面也有一項說你到底要不要開放但高德可能沒有那個選項讓你所以你只要當頭下來他就直接傳過去了所以現在政府激光全面禁用那我們有沒有可能未來會是在民間這個APP都會要求下架"},{"start":5087.349,"end":5114.503,"text":"第一個跟委員分享就是說那個高德的那一個APP其實它是由AI去生成用大數據去生成它其實它沒有我們國內的圖資那其實我們內政部本來就有地政司本來就有圖資只是說我們國內的業者其實有去評估就是說高德這個技術對他們來講其實不困難只是說我們相對的就是說假如說只是單獨的說你要看那個秒數而已的話"},{"start":5115.743,"end":5141.236,"text":"他們覺得沒有商業模式沒有商業價值所以他不想開發但不是說不想開發之後他們對於這整個串聯到我們智慧交通這個部分他們就不做他們現在其實在考慮就是說是不是有可能進一步的去把整個圖資再收集更完整之後的話甚至到最後會讓民眾就是拿到就是說我甚至可以知道我什麼時候到哪一個地方又走哪一條路會更快這樣子"},{"start":5143.097,"end":5161.586,"text":"主委您已經把我下一個問題要問的你都提前先回答完了我現在就是要請教您您過去在這個總質詢的時候您有回答過說你有信心我們可以開發一個更好用的APP那就像您剛剛講的很多的這些系統開發業者覺得讀了紅燈的秒數或者是某一些資訊對他們來講並沒有商業開發的價值"},{"start":5168.109,"end":5195.343,"text":"又或者是有一些圖資其實散落在交通部在內政部在其他的部會裡頭所以您講到的要開發一個更有用的APP會不會會不會做第二個您現在是不是要由國發會開始來做跨部會的整合來整合這一些包括交通部內政部甚至民間的這些資通訊系統的這些圖資那如果會的話你會用哪一樣的經費"},{"start":5196.363,"end":5222.972,"text":"比如說我們的AI十大建設的1900億的這個預算裡頭會不會拿這個預算一部分來做這一類的APP的開發那未來有可能你不是只有開發跟國產的地圖服務系統未來可能還有很多包括我們在談農業精準的農業智慧農業上面很多大數據的運用在很多我們的這些大數據運用上面國發會跟數位部會扮演什麼樣的角色來"},{"start":5223.872,"end":5248.423,"text":"第一個就是說因為速發部他負責的就是AI產業登峰這一塊AI產業登峰這一塊其實很大的一個目標就是說我們不再做project我們要做product但也不是說速發部自己在做product他會用一些譬如說像研發補助或者是科專提案這部分然後去媒合民間的業者然後去跟"},{"start":5248.963,"end":5266.482,"text":"他們講的是說現在目前政府希望往哪一個部分走那你有沒有可能就是說協助政府一起開發這樣的一個軟體所以我們這個部分來講的話國發會站在統統所以這已經有想法有做法有進度對對對所以你們預計這樣的一個所謂的這樣的一個開發這樣的一個APP的開發"},{"start":5269.605,"end":5284.235,"text":"其實已經在進行式當中對我們會鼓勵啊但時程在這部分我沒有辦法回報給委員就說我現在沒有要求但是有都有在做而且民間業者其實他也反應就是說"},{"start":5285.776,"end":5293.379,"text":"隨著整個聯網的車輛越普及那導航的服務更精進的話這些數據都進到整個模型裡面的話那個會更精準那整個開發價值會更大這樣子"},{"start":5300.762,"end":5320.447,"text":"好 所以當然我就拭目以待啦我覺得比如說我剛提到的我問到了這個你的新十大建設的這個AI的部分1900億裡頭會不會撥一部分來做這一方面的開發運用或者是說去協助速發部或者協助一些民間的業者廠商去做更精準的這些大數據的的蒐集開發"},{"start":5324.249,"end":5351.17,"text":"這個比例的話我是不是會後我再提供給因為這個我現在手上沒有如果說你們有類似這樣的是不是會後提供給老師接下來我要請教您第二個問題這個國發基金裡頭最近對於聯合再生的投資我們開始釋出了420萬股所以國發基金大概現在只保留了5.81%當然也只剩下一席的董事"},{"start":5353.174,"end":5376.039,"text":"國發基金說你們的這個階段性任務已經達成我想請教什麼叫階段性任務已經達成是表示政府未來是放棄綠能的發展嗎還是有其他的商業考量就這個部分的話我們不是放棄綠能發展只是說我們裡面的那個辦法裡面就有規定就是說投資超過5年的話我們就會檢討"},{"start":5377.299,"end":5385.071,"text":"然後假如說這一個產業已經慢慢的已經自己可以站起來的話其實我們會慢慢的就釋放一部分的股"},{"start":5386.089,"end":5410.554,"text":"一份的那個股票但聯合再生其實它的股價還是一直在跌嘛你說投資超過五年要檢討那你應該是2024年甚至更早之前就應該要開始檢討了嘛那到現在才開始去試股對但我們會有一個程序啊那因為最近前一陣子聯合再生的股票算還蠻不錯的啦所以我們那時候其實是有少部分在試股這樣子但是"},{"start":5411.995,"end":5436.298,"text":"總體投資來講你們這一個投資是賺還是賠還是有賺所以未來在國發基金在做這一類的投資的時候你們的評估作業要點會否會再做一些修正我想有一些創新的產業當然一開始是不會賺錢後面當然會不曉得它會有什麼樣的變化但是你們是不是還是會持續做一些活動性的檢討"},{"start":5436.578,"end":5464.361,"text":"因為這個本來就是國發基金的目的就是我們會扶持初期而且是新創的但我們會持續的關注我們通常持有股票都是非常長的我們不像民間的一些投入公司進出股票那麼長我們都是會考慮到這個公司對於我們要扶持的產業它的重要性是什麼會把它列入考量好 謝謝謝謝邱委員 主委先回座"},{"start":5469.428,"end":5480.502,"text":"好 下位質詢 請李玉玲委員謝謝主席 請葉主委請國安會葉主委委員長"},{"start":5488.067,"end":5502.8,"text":"主委 近期我們台股衝上了4萬點以台積電為首的半導體供應產鏈是功不可沒的這也顯現了我們全球對於AI晶片的需求讓我們台灣半導體的供應鏈這個前景一直都被看好"},{"start":5503.36,"end":5506.724,"text":"而我們桃竹苗區地區作為全球最重要的半導體產業的聚落所以我們賴總統特別也在這種產業的基礎上提出了桃竹苗的大矽谷計畫那這個計畫特別是在2024年的9月已經核定了"},{"start":5520.72,"end":5535.404,"text":"在2025年的1月份國發會特別也曾與我們桃竹苗四個縣市長都有開座談座談也要推動著我們大溪谷的這個中央跟地方的溝通平台請問這個實質的溝通會議開了幾次就我目前的資料來講是六次"},{"start":5541.045,"end":5565.74,"text":"這個六次的話之後是工作的會議嗎目前就是說因為我們有分啦因為不太可能所有的那個會議都跑到那一個它是工作的平台因為我們這個溝通平台裡面有工作的平台跟協調的平台嘛工作平台是屬於工作方面一些局處的那個我們協調平台的話是屬於副市長層級以上的對不對但是你的這個六次都是在工作上的平台那請問那個我們協調的平台你們為什麼不開呢"},{"start":5569.102,"end":5596.825,"text":"不是說不開因為跟委員分享因為我上任的時候去年大概十月的時候其實就有一些縣市長來找我那也有反映這個問題所以還是很多工作要溝通的嘛對所以原本剛開始是沒有分類所以全部都是那已經分類了那你們什麼時候要開這個會議第一個就是說假如說工作平台沒有辦法解決協調的話才會進到現在有沒有這個沒辦法協調的現在目前看起來有時候你表示這個有問題要溝通吧沒有沒有"},{"start":5597.185,"end":5619.167,"text":"是我上任之後的話我才把所有的溝通分成兩個一個是工作平台一個是協調平台那工作平台會處理一些比如說地方政府跟中央假如說能夠達成共識的話那就不用到協調平台上面去假如說還是沒有辦法達到共識的話才會送到協調平台那現在有沒有需要現在看起來是沒有需要因為都已經開過就六次"},{"start":5621.68,"end":5645.615,"text":"開過六次就還不至於到協調平台這邊去做協調所以主委認為說我們國防會沒有什麼沒有必要有在上面有角色還是認為說各縣市你們自己去溝通去檢討就好了沒有 跟委員報告工作平台是由我們的那個社發處以及國土處的處長去主持然後召集各個部會跟地方政府來主委我還是要提醒你啦"},{"start":5646.055,"end":5662.082,"text":"很多事情的話必須要拉高層級去做溝通協調並不是說三言兩語就能夠說清楚的也沒辦法用公文網法的話就可以解決問題的所以我們還是希望說你們這四年一檢討的事情現在已經過了幾年了對不對28年又循環了所以我認為各縣市的這個溝通平台這個副市長溝通平台你們要盡早趕快看好不好好 要開正常嘛把問題才能解決不然我們地方認為說我們中央都不夠積極"},{"start":5675.168,"end":5694.84,"text":"沒有啦 那個地方政府其實給我們的回饋都是說從我們開始去分工作平台跟協調平台的話我們原本有32天所以趕快開 好不好已經處理了28天協調平台要趕快開好大概什麼時候要開我看一下 因為要有按援很有需要才開一定有的啦大家只是在開會而已啦好 現在我跟你提的問題就是你要趕快溝通協調平台"},{"start":5701.164,"end":5726.098,"text":"第一個就是我們現在大溪谷計畫的話未來的就業人口就一定會流入所以我們在居住方面的話說2032年的話我們要興建4萬多戶但是現在不管你決標還是說在新任中的大概有2萬多戶所以內政部也說因為這個空屋啦或者用地取得不容易他準備要下修那這件事情內政部有沒有跟你溝通"},{"start":5727.93,"end":5743.158,"text":"他這個部分的話就是說整個那個住宅政策除了社宅之外還有包租貸款這個部分所以他有的時候會把包租貸款這樣一個部分的量的把它納進來所以不是說社宅的目標所以住宿的問題這個層面的問題不要說影響到我們產業的發展"},{"start":5745.959,"end":5760.526,"text":"比我們產業的發展更慢的話就是跟不上了好不好這個要去注意的住宿的問題一定會就位人口進去你一定有住宿的問題嘛你蓋工業區蓋工業區的同時你就可以蓋宿舍讓他們可以可負擔的富士住宅"},{"start":5761.426,"end":5789.393,"text":"這個可以提動的因為這一個部分像社會住宅或甚至是企業宅的話其實內地戶都蠻推的所以你在蓋工業區的話就要把住宿的問題給解決 好不好好 接下來是交通方面本來我們的在台北到桃園部分的話我們有板農快速道路現在改名叫做大漢溪的兩岸快速道路還有我們新陽梅快速道路這個可以解決台北到桃園還甚至我們南桃園整個交通的整個壓力"},{"start":5790.313,"end":5799.713,"text":"但是我們的可行性評估到現在都一直延到還沒通過是什麼原因這個116年5月會完成評估報告5月就是下個月"},{"start":5801.931,"end":5822.498,"text":"115年的5月116還要拖一年這已經幾年了24年開始到現在因為那個工程規模比較大所以沒有辦法在下個月就馬上做出一個評估報告出來所以我們希望你能夠年底的來完成好不好我們拚年底因為你經過幾年了我跟交通部溝通一下你經過兩年了"},{"start":5823.038,"end":5848.42,"text":"好不好 盡量年底就能來完成你完成之後各地方政府才有辦法去做其他的那個硬體設備這個部分好不好那接下來我們講到剛剛講的是交通方面那還有醫療方面我想請問一下我們醫療方面的話在台北市跟我們桃園市的人口是差不多的人口慢慢都會增加所以在醫療方面的話就是天壤之別"},{"start":5848.74,"end":5864.251,"text":"所以當時我們國發會有盤點一下桃園未來在醫療資源方面有將清大輻射的醫院放在裡面那但是這個清大輻射醫院已經兩次流標了到三月底都兩次流標了可能是因為病床數只有200床"},{"start":5865.952,"end":5871.014,"text":"沒有辦法吸引大型醫院來這邊投標是不是請諸位來溝通一下可不可以增加病床數的上限讓我們輻射醫院可以順利的來得標我來跟石崇良部長溝通一下因為200床可能大型醫院他沒有興趣好不好"},{"start":5885.08,"end":5905.192,"text":"所以我們希望說我們趕快的讓各縣市的整合這個機制能夠讓我們的提高我們的層次溝通高層次的來溝通的話才能夠讓我們大溪谷計畫能夠推動的進程不會被阻擾而且讓我們臺灣的經濟可以再邁向更高峰好不好好謝謝好謝謝委員好謝謝那我們下一位是邱志偉召委"},{"start":5922.857,"end":5947.93,"text":"謝主席是不是請國會葉主委跟這個國安基金王子密請葉主委王子密張委好主委您來國安服務多久了我從9月到現在已經大概7個多月了半年多了國安基金是一個長期的一個重要的方案國安基金投資很多項目你知道有幾個項目嗎有幾個方案"},{"start":5953.048,"end":5969.995,"text":"這個應該要很了解因為這個每一個方案都是一百億七個啦有七個百億的基金那我們現在未來會再規劃兩個分屬不同部會也有你們直接去控管的投資比方說這個企業直接投資是你們管的嗎"},{"start":5971.096,"end":5982.673,"text":"直投市是國會主管的那這個創業天使投資也是你們管的是這兩項是你們管的中小企業加強投資中小企業方案是你們管的嗎經濟部經濟部"},{"start":5984.599,"end":6012.379,"text":"然後策略型製造業 策略型服務業經濟部經濟部 對不對所以你們職業管理是企業投資方案跟所謂的創業天使對 資投跟那個那新加入的包括這個投資文化創業產業實施方案這屬於文化部是沒有創法你們只是出錢另外呢 加強投資AI新創事業實施方案數位發展部數位發展部智慧機器人投資方案國客會"},{"start":6013.209,"end":6023.803,"text":"國科會分屬不可總有7項加上未來在針對運動產業是運動部還有大健康大健康是屬於衛福部這些計畫裡面他們的這個投資損益最後"},{"start":6030.026,"end":6051.718,"text":"是你們來承受還是他們承受我們雖然你們只控管的是企業投資方案企業投資 企業職業投資跟所謂的創業天使那我剛剛所提到的文化創業產業跟中小企業實施方案分屬不同部門那他們投資績效是你們要去控管還是他們自己負責"},{"start":6053.666,"end":6080.577,"text":"以前的話大部分都是部會那我們現在是傾向就是說我們會成立一個第一個投資要有效益但是不完全是著重於效益要有協助輔導這個產業發展的這個機制不完全一定要獲利為最先思考或優先思考比方說你中小企業比方說策略型服務業跟製造業比方說文化創業產業"},{"start":6081.917,"end":6111.024,"text":"他們都缺少資金嘛而且屬於那新創事業也是如此在這種情況之下你如果完全用這個所謂這個獲利角度去看你會設立很多的門檻你不要忘了初衷是要協助產業的發展是好我問幾個關於你們投資方案第一個加強投資重要現實方案這個部分是由你說是由經濟部去主管對不對是"},{"start":6111.704,"end":6135.504,"text":"好 他們要怎麼投要投哪一家 要投多少錢是經濟部哪一個單位去證書館中企業署中小企業署你看 所有所謂有他們所投資的這些狀況 盈虧情形我想都會送報表給你們吧會好 113年有147家被投資是屬於中小企業署投資有110家發生虧損比例還蠻高的 對不對"},{"start":6140.56,"end":6153.173,"text":"然後這個游營轉虧的也有然後這個虧損傢俱也有這個給你們參考這個不見得一定要從獲利角度來看但是也不能太離譜是"},{"start":6155.137,"end":6172.025,"text":"也有一定的績效 但是不能完全以績效掛帥因為這雙小企業有時候是他在草創的時候 或者資金不夠或是面臨到很多這個經營環境的改變他當然他的風險比較高所以這部分給你們去參考另外這個"},{"start":6173.908,"end":6200.441,"text":"怎麼樣跟你們相關的單位去合作比方說經濟部你要怎麼去合作讓這個績效能夠讓這個機制或者績效能夠往好的方向去發展我們現在正在規劃就是說成立一個百億基金的投資管理平台那這個甚至跨部會所以我們會管現在目前至少七個百億基金甚至未來的兩個百億基金投資績效我們先放另外一邊"},{"start":6201.562,"end":6216.56,"text":"投資的效率比方說很多中小企業台灣那麼多中小企業他要希望你們去投資但是呢你們投資的時候有時候門檻很高有時候你們設立門檻有時候經濟部設立門檻所以他得不到政府的協助"},{"start":6217.659,"end":6241.352,"text":"那你們投的我不曉得這個績效是怎麼樣去做投資的判斷但是這個部分我比較關心的是需要得到政府協助的卻沒有得到政府的協助你們檢討整個機制從這個中小企業來看策略型服務業跟策略型製造業也是如此然後文化創意產業也是如此"},{"start":6242.301,"end":6252.872,"text":"特別是文創產業文創產業績效你們框列的一百億有兩期對不對那你要去督促文化部跟文策院他們執行的狀況怎麼樣"},{"start":6254.5,"end":6281.462,"text":"他投資效率如果有一家公司去要跟文策院跟文化部去申請投資投資不是補助補助是政府給他錢投資是他要出50政府出50對不對投資有一定的風險但是要重實效這個你要跟相關的部會因為錢是你們出的最後責任是要你們承擔"},{"start":6283.254,"end":6309.082,"text":"但你要把這個投資的效率重重之外投資的效率也要重重有沒有一個案子申請兩年都還沒核定未來我們會跟文化部就這個部分不只文化部啦所以相關你說未來書發部 國科會經濟部 國科會 書發部都會你要建立一個期限所以說一個案子送進來要跟相關部會申請投資"},{"start":6310.677,"end":6336.648,"text":"好那你要一定時間線對好如果一年兩年這個投資的這個效率實在是我覺得政府啊應該是要協助產業對要解決問題你如果一個案子投資兩年他申請兩年都還沒一個結論的話這反而製造更多的問題對我們未來的那個投資平台會請他們多多注意這個部分就是投資時效的部分討論一下這個"},{"start":6338.055,"end":6366.435,"text":"你叫K-POP 你知道什麼叫K-POP嗎我知道 韓國的文化韓國流行文化 這變成全世界那什麼叫T-POP台灣的人家說是泰國的所以你這認知會很混淆反而你問大部分人在國際上T-POP是什麼人家會以為是泰國的所以流行文化的產業鏈這個整個台灣是南韓K-POP第一出口國"},{"start":6368.12,"end":6389.552,"text":"一票難求啊秒殺所以這種情況之下你國發經營有投資文化創意產業實施方案就是讓這筆一百億的錢能夠讓台灣成為另外一個這個K-POP的一個成功的方案成功的一個模式讓他們做得到我們也應該做得到啊"},{"start":6392.173,"end":6405.097,"text":"所以你不只出錢你要督導相關的單位因為你具有統合的功能國發會的功能就是你能夠統合各部會在執行面能有更好的績效有更好的效率那你們不是光出錢你出錢之後就不理你要看到績效你要看到成果如果你投兩期在這個文化創意產業給他投兩期100億"},{"start":6420.356,"end":6442.606,"text":"你匡列10年你要看他每年投了多少如果每年投了很少代表說你績效不好要不然你就請汪副來說明為什麼績效不好因為就未來的話我們會對於每一支百億基金的話針對他的盈虧的狀況或是投資的狀況的話不好的話我們會請他到管理委員會來報告你這餅啊做得很好但是分不出去"},{"start":6444.048,"end":6462.361,"text":"分布出去 受益者得到幫助的產業就或公司或企業就沒有辦法得到政府的這些政策的美意所以你雖然是一個政策的這個規劃者各單位負責執行但是不要忘了錢是國外進出的"},{"start":6463.447,"end":6492.131,"text":"國安金是受經濟委員會這邊來審查來監督嘛所以這個錢要花在協助產業然後要有實效我希望說兩百億下去給文化創業產業希望台灣成為另外一個K-POP的一個成功的模範所以我希望你這個近期啊就趕快跟文化部啊召集相關會來檢討這種投資的效率以及這個投資的效果"},{"start":6493.557,"end":6504.201,"text":"深圳讓這100億能夠發揮在福祉文化創意產業我今天好像都超時了兩分鐘所以日後我會檢討謝謝主席"},{"start":6524.656,"end":6541.048,"text":"謝謝我們下一位質詢請蔡議員好謝謝趙偉那我們是不是邀請這個國發會主委請國發會葉主委主委委員好"},{"start":6554.534,"end":6561.495,"text":"诶 主委齁主委這個最近大家都在討論啦齁台灣的生意率已經是全世界"},{"start":6562.745,"end":6585.984,"text":"最後一名那我們就看到對應著這個韓國南韓的出生率是有回升那他們對於出生率的一個回升事實上也是扎了很多的政策包括說他們延長全新的運營價包括他們也增設男性的運營價還從10天增設到了20天那"},{"start":6587.085,"end":6610.265,"text":"他們還針對雙薪如果共同請育嬰假的時候全薪補助從三個月提升到六個月那育嬰假的總時間從一年可以提升到1.5年然後他們還有賦予企業的義務跟獎勵那其中一個比較重要的就是說企業如果對員工在兩歲以前"},{"start":6611.926,"end":6639.297,"text":"發放這個補助金企業對員工發補助金的話全額免稅那支持企業來解決少子化的危機那當然這是韓國的政策那我們台灣一樣是有很多這個少子化政策那主要就是落在0到6歲國家一起養的政策那包括有育兒津貼包括有托育津貼包括有就學的繳費的一個上限然後基本上這樣的津貼制度"},{"start":6639.717,"end":6656.691,"text":"就是減輕年輕人因為生育所造成的負擔但是看起來韓國的政策方向有效但是在台灣的政策方向看不到成績那這件事主委你的檢討是為什麼呢第一個跟委員報告就是說"},{"start":6659.434,"end":6678.949,"text":"最近應該那個府院會有一個比較比較更進一步的那一個關於零到六歲或甚至零到十八歲國家一起養這個部分會有一系列的一些政策出來那整個的那一個新的部分的話會會跟委員剛剛提到那個韓國的政策其實是蠻"},{"start":6681.111,"end":6700.83,"text":"蠻接近的比如說像擴增男性育嬰假這個部分我們原本就有在做了而且我們現在是有的但可能會再擴大實施這樣子那這個部分來講的話其實還有另外一個就是說可能就是說我們目前就是說申請那個比如說臨時的那個照顧假的話那你的工作對企業來講就沒有人做"},{"start":6704.914,"end":6730.408,"text":"所以這個部分我們也在思考說怎麼樣讓企業減輕這樣一個負擔因為他畢竟還是要有人來做這件事情所以他可能會有一些做法或者是措施來讓企業比較能夠安心的讓員工去請這個照顧家所以一系列的政策可能在最近可能會一系列的推出來會再有後續的政策那我希望政策是有效的"},{"start":6730.908,"end":6739.721,"text":"而且這個政策我覺得中央不用太擔心大家就是說中央政府跟地方政府大家應該是合作"},{"start":6741.048,"end":6769.673,"text":"面對少子化議題也不是只有中央責任地方也是希望來出一點力但是我們卻看到一個公文這個公文有點讓我納悶因為我剛剛舉了韓國的例子韓國還鼓勵企業去給育兒的獎勵金給獎勵金給他免稅但是我們看到我們的少子化政策這個中央就一個公文說如果是2到6歲中央有補助的話那地方政府"},{"start":6770.513,"end":6788.182,"text":"就如果你要補助的話你就要就扣減中央對直轄市縣市的相關教育補助比例就要扣減意思就是說因應兩到六歲的幼兒少子化的一個補助中央有做啊 地方不准做"},{"start":6789.022,"end":6807.902,"text":"那你們當然這個理由,我可以理解這個理由,你們是寫避免地方的財力不一,互相禁足產生福利遷移意思就是說,後天比較壞,可能孩子就不要在那裡生,我就稍微保衛生,後天會比較好你們會煩惱一點,但是依我來看,煩惱一點是假的啦"},{"start":6812.316,"end":6834.288,"text":"反正這件事我覺得是假的啦 因為你看現在有很多地方政府說中央有普發現金那我們地方也要普發現金普發現金有的縣市有 有的縣市沒有沒有的他就會被批判啊怎樣事實上我覺得這樣都不好因為每個縣市都有他自己的財政能力去做"},{"start":6834.848,"end":6852.536,"text":"他們自己財政能力可以做怎樣的事情那有的地方政府就認為說我的財政我想要放在少子化政策我想要把我的資源投注在這裡的爸爸媽媽有生小孩我再給他更大的一個誘因他快要選擇這樣做"},{"start":6854.837,"end":6882.936,"text":"這中央教育是高雷就不會付啊怎麼會對大家說哇 你如果要少子化政策地方政府要加碼的話我就要擴減你對地方的這個補助比例這個是怎樣的邏輯產生這樣的決定啊這個部分跟委員報告這個部分我會來跟教育部這邊做一個協調我會跟那個部長這邊反映一下就是這個部分到底有沒有一些在商議的空間是啦 就是我有點搞不懂啦因為他針對2到6歲啦"},{"start":6885.017,"end":6904.347,"text":"你知道現在很多地方針對營養午餐的政策也有每個縣市的不同調嘛有的縣市財政能力比較好他營養午餐願意再加碼所以給2到6歲以外的福利的一個進足你們覺得沒有關係但是2到6歲就不要有福利進足"},{"start":6906.127,"end":6932.936,"text":"這件事就是我覺得有點本末倒置了照理說如果這個地方政府真的鼓勵我有很好的財政能力我要大幅的鼓勵每個孩子在我這裡生我讓他真的好在這裡好加碼再加碼這樣真的讓他下去做也沒關係真的讓他下去嘗試看看尤其有一些戶籍想要簽的可是戶籍要簽很容易啊"},{"start":6934.419,"end":6960.895,"text":"他要簽戶籍也是要有要有要有資產不然就是你要有一個一個其他人願意讓你簽啊也不是那麼簡單會有簽戶籍但是總是地方政府願意做這件事啊給這些年輕的這個爸爸媽媽想說我小孩子一隻好就真的很好這樣就讓他勇敢去嘗試啊地方政府他有這樣的財政能力給他去嘗試有什麼不好的"},{"start":6962.637,"end":6990.129,"text":"好不好 這個你們再思考一下我會再跟那個教育部長 政部長對 因為時間到 我就再呼籲一件事啦就是說因為台灣的偏鄉這個人口的一個減少當然很多人少子化感冠不得高齡化一樣是要重視現在台灣就是全國啦這個高齡的人口高齡人口比例最高的就是台北市第二就是我們嘉義縣"},{"start":6992.091,"end":7002.244,"text":"台北市第一名 萬聖第二名但是我們看到的這些高齡化社會他很多就真的在於整個沒辦法給年輕人回來住"},{"start":7003.81,"end":7023.835,"text":"這個政客沒辦法讓年輕人回來住就是來自於說政客根本沒地讓年輕人可以回去住回去有一個地方住 都已經持份到已經破碎了所以要解決這個的一些政策上的一個工具就是鄉規 鄉村規劃"},{"start":7025.876,"end":7038.11,"text":"那既然鄉規這麼重要的話我覺得國發會應該更大膽的把預算協助每個地方政府趕快來進行每一個村莊的鄉規讓這些村莊趕快把去怎麼這個化齡維整趕快把每一個"},{"start":7047.581,"end":7067.73,"text":"寶樓都有辦法產生出一些建地出來大家要吃飯的地方要怎麼蓋好蓋好蓋好在製造這個城堂也比較會活起來不然我們看到很多不管是以前把它叫做極限村還是以前叫做五子村裡這些名字都不好"},{"start":7068.47,"end":7074.815,"text":"但是這裡的棉也一直都放很久了,這無線村我記得在2018年到現在都在放這個但是看起來都沒有辦法,你面對這種超高齡的一些枕頭它一樣是那個地方沒有整個沒有他們的土地計劃,沒有鄉村規劃所以土地破碎又零散,這個事情到現在一樣無解,一樣沒有看到"},{"start":7093.691,"end":7106.842,"text":"政府要怎麼去輔導他們明明就有一個叫相規現在有實施相規的又少之又少這件事情國發會要重視啦好不好委員的意見我再跟那個劉部長這邊因為這個屬於內政部國土部我會跟他反映跟他協調一下"},{"start":7110.965,"end":7121.315,"text":"蔡議員他站在各部會啦 這個是內政部 國土事務部 沒錯啦你國安會 你就看到這裡台灣的這個現狀嘛你國安會要站在說 我就是要改變這個現狀你黨保安也要叫他們就是要大力去做啊我會反應委員的意見好 謝謝主委 謝謝謝謝蔡議員"},{"start":7136.134,"end":7158.415,"text":"謝謝主委 主委先請回座陳昌明陳昌明陳昌明不在 政天政天委員在 請政天財委員質詢主席有請主委請國務卿主委"},{"start":7164.329,"end":7169.074,"text":"這個花東第七發展條例101年三讀立法院通過從102年開始編列花東基金總共400億的基金規模我們看這個花東第七發展條例第五條"},{"start":7190.629,"end":7213.804,"text":"第一項的第三款原住民族群生活條件及環境之改善第五條的內容包含原住民的部分然後第八條特別提到縣主管局應針對花東地區原住民族生存保障以文化保存"},{"start":7214.775,"end":7242.191,"text":"然後還要依延期法 相關的包括推動原住民族的人才培育輔導原住民參與以自然自然維護以經營管理提供相關機會 機會 它很廣對原住民的部分我主要談的最主要是包括第11條滿足花東地區居民聯絡這些相關的而且還提到健全"},{"start":7242.836,"end":7271.992,"text":"原住民族部落之交通及公共運輸提供安全便捷友善可靠舒適之運輸服務我要強調的是什麼花東地區發展條例前部的條例沒有幾條但是提到原住民的部分就好幾條那因為花蓮台東就是原住民人口最多的地方比例也很高"},{"start":7272.897,"end":7300.178,"text":"比例很高而且又是一個非常偏鄉的地方所以這個相關的這些執行了已經執行了十幾年了所以這個我不知道你們過去有沒有去檢視整個花東基金在執行上對原住民族的部分如果沒有的話"},{"start":7301.583,"end":7325.783,"text":"要去從最起碼不要說往前了如果有的話能夠提供素面的資料可以嗎這個是不是會我們提供素面資料的委員提供素面的資料我們有做統計好 謝謝好 接下來這個東昌公墓我在108年質詢國發會主委當初是陳美玲這個主任委員"},{"start":7330.643,"end":7353.878,"text":"他這個東昌公務啊他一個幾十年前已經進帳但是一直沒有辦法有錢簽帳簽帳所以當初為了興建原住民族的部落集會所非常難得的國發會同意用花東基金來作為簽帳的費用"},{"start":7356.394,"end":7374.391,"text":"那這個公文也特別國發會的這張公文可以證明錢帳已經完成了因為這108年開始實施的已經完成但是我們的部落階位的時候還是沒有辦法蓋為什麼呢因為還要換土還要換土"},{"start":7380.485,"end":7391.28,"text":"因為這是地方還有鄉公所他們的意見所以我認為還要換土所以換土也要經費所以那個部落紀惠所還沒辦法蓋"},{"start":7392.754,"end":7417.183,"text":"所以這個部分換土的經費也希望這個國發會這邊能夠同意致用花東基金然後能夠請花蓮縣政府把它納入跟委員報告這個我們會去做評估那看起來是原民會基本上是是同意的那我們也會再跟原民會這邊做一個協調去協調這個部分好謝謝"},{"start":7420.609,"end":7443.148,"text":"另外就是 抱歉 趙委時間還有延期法16條 政府應設定原住民族住宅政策然後28條對於都會區的安基也特別應該予以保障跟協助我們看 原住民族住宅4年三期計劃114到117年"},{"start":7447.971,"end":7464.062,"text":"齊工建構及修繕住宅的經費合訂當初國防會審查也邀請了主計總署跟相關部會然後報行政院行政院合訂每年這是1億3800萬但是114年度的編列預算只有1億1850萬"},{"start":7472.995,"end":7496.886,"text":"115年度更是少了只剩下4730萬行政合定的結果預算編類不足所以而且國會審議的時候審查的時候主席總書也要來啊所以這個部分尤其是住我先讓主委了解原民會的預算"},{"start":7498.466,"end":7515.778,"text":"115年度跟114年度還增加了7億2000多還增加並沒有減少總預算然後我們看原住民家庭的自有住宅率"},{"start":7516.946,"end":7522.832,"text":"第一全國的平均值新北市差了27.83%台北市差33.44%桃園差了25.26%台中市差近31.73%"},{"start":7531.383,"end":7547.358,"text":"原住民在都會區人口有社戶級的已經達到52.72%所以他非常非常的需要但是這個經費卻是邊內部署跟行政院所核定的所以請國發會能夠去跟協調"},{"start":7551.824,"end":7574.332,"text":"到底是主計總書的問題還是園民會的問題這個部分跟委員報告園民會在4月2號有送了一個修正的計畫來那這個修正計畫是配合那個整個依照行政院核定的各直轄縣市政府的財力及次的表去做修正所以我們會這邊正在辦理審查"},{"start":7576.033,"end":7598.161,"text":"那個我要跟國化會主委還有我們國化會的同仁才化法授權訂了一個中央對直轄市及縣市政府的一個補助辦法這裡面特別規定嚴重民主重要建設計畫"},{"start":7600.302,"end":7612.084,"text":"不受這個財力分級的限制而且還可以超過90%不受財力分級的限制所以要請國會退回"},{"start":7612.965,"end":7638.465,"text":"這個修正這個部分我們會跟組總這邊來討論一下因為還有原民會然後因為這個部分的話還是要看組總那邊組總那邊會考量剛剛那個委員講的就是說那個原住民這個部分的話可能會有額外的一個考量所以不該修正這個計畫這是第一個因為這個辦法連財化法授權訂的那個辦法非常非常的明確"},{"start":7640.419,"end":7654.744,"text":"十一住行我們就講這四個字十一住行我們看這個一百一十五年度園民會的預算住的我剛剛談了行的部分全部都減少"},{"start":7656.249,"end":7672.91,"text":"全部都減少這個是最基本的所以這個部分要請國發會這個一定要協助好不好好我們去協調好謝謝好謝謝鄭天才委員來主委先回座下位諮詢委員請葉元智"},{"start":7685.734,"end":7688.223,"text":"首先我們要請國安委主委謝謝請國安委業主委"},{"start":7694.17,"end":7722.046,"text":"委員長那個主委好跟主委請教一下因為我們對美的談判我們的政府雖然一直講說最後談的結果是要直接投資美國2500億然後加上信保金2500億這不是兩個相加不是5000億這是我們政府一直在告訴大家的事情不過呢前幾天美國的商務部長盧特尼克又再次講說台灣的5000億美金已經在路上這是盧特尼克講的"},{"start":7723.047,"end":7744.122,"text":"然後川普說未來要美國的晶片生產要佔全球的一半所以很顯然美國的官員的講法跟台灣的官員講法是完全不一樣那我是想要問主委的事因為之前我看到有關於2500億政府信保基金的部分國發會是說要由國發會來負責嗎然後國發會跟公股"},{"start":7748.772,"end":7763.325,"text":"來聯合來處理啦也是有這個事嘛國外資金有這樣講過嘛對不對沒有啊不只是公股還有民營的對就是反正國發會有國發基金有嘛國發基金是有嘛那我這邊非常擔心一件事情啊"},{"start":7764.025,"end":7789.758,"text":"就是因為我們國發基金常常在投資的時候他會有政策考量他不會以完全這個這個部分來算這個部分跟委員分享國發基金設立以來40幾年專案行政院專案只有14件而已所以委員剛剛講的那個可能資料委員回去再檢查一下可能不是那麼的確實這樣子我們這邊得到是只有14件而已40年來"},{"start":7791.138,"end":7815.765,"text":"40年來40幾年來只有14件是行政院狀案合格合格的那其他的其他國發基金投資的部分對啊就是就是就是直投啊或者是那個百億基金啊所以對啊這個資訊跟委員沒有沒有沒有這個但是這個錢還是都是國發基金出的嘛對國發基金不能夠講說如果是基金然後別人跟我要我就不管啊但是我這邊啊你現在講要跟委員溝通的時候所以那個行政院狀案主委你不用那麼緊張我都還沒有問問題你不用那麼緊張啦"},{"start":7818.926,"end":7824.128,"text":"你真的不用這麼緊張我不會我不會我不會我不會我不會我不會我不會我不會我不會我不會我不會我不會我不會我不會我不會我不會我不會我不會我不會我不會我不會我不會我不會我不會我不會我不會我不會"},{"start":7847.675,"end":7864.744,"text":"不需要所以今天有很多資料可以顯示國發基金的投資是虧損我覺得就是國發會就是要負責不能說是別人要走的錢就跟我無關那今天信保基金如果也是國發會國發基金來負擔綱的話那你也要考慮一個狀況"},{"start":7865.765,"end":7886.191,"text":"就是因為如果我們今天過去美國投資五千億是美國要求的到時候只要隨便一家公司他配合政府政策過去投資那國化基金就會說你是配合政府的好不好那你就去吧那信用擔保是不是那沒關係信用擔保就沒有擔保品嘛那假設他去了虧損了如果他去了虧損沒有擔保品那請問一下這個虧損是誰來負擔"},{"start":7888.852,"end":7899.325,"text":"委員我可不可以就你給的這個資料提出一些想法什麼資料你提的這個項鍊我沒有提啊我沒有叫你秀啊你針對我問的問題講就好啦"},{"start":7903.22,"end":7921.716,"text":"所以委員是說我是說如果你今天要來擔保信保基金信保基金就是信用關保沒有擔保品那現在有人配合政府政策成立一家公司跑去美國投資那因為要貸款沒有擔保品所以國發基金負責信保就貸給他嘛那如果到時候虧損那這筆錢虧的是誰來出是國發基金虧嗎沒有"},{"start":7924.558,"end":7946.624,"text":"就看說他所承擔的那個成數是多少那就我們的那個保險的這個部分的話我們會跟那個金融機構裡面去按照那個出資的比例來比例嘛所以最後國發基金也是會虧損只是比例的問題嘛我現在只是提醒說我覺得國發基金不能夠都是這樣都是配合政府政策都是一直不斷的在虧損當中"},{"start":7947.924,"end":7976.786,"text":"那當然你又會講說那個要看各單位比如說我現在就舉一個文化部文化部有跟你要錢嘛對不對100億之後又要要了100億沒錯吧沒有就只有100億他本來說要再另外要100億我是不知道沒有這個好像沒有我沒有聽說上一個主委就有聽說你又沒聽說這個我不知道你這個業務都不了解上一個主委就說上一個主委就已經證實了嘛李議員要再多要100基金去投資OTT的內容嘛"},{"start":7977.926,"end":7999.316,"text":"你又說你沒聽說我問最後一個問題譬如說像比如我舉個九把刀的電影他國發多一分鐘啦剛剛他就不是你說一分鐘一分鐘大家都準時下來哪有剛剛我又看到家瑋就沒有我已經給你兩分鐘了再一分鐘問完20秒國發基金在九把刀的電影投資了1.07億那他總共要摸2.65億國發基金又投了38%"},{"start":8006.659,"end":8015.388,"text":"最後這個電影是到4月大概票房不到五千萬所以國發基金就是要虧那我想問諸位請問一下這個是文化部的問題還是您的問題"},{"start":8017.516,"end":8042.379,"text":"簡短回答就是我們尊重文化部的專業嘛因為我們國發基金也不是搞那個文化所以國發基金就是你只是負責給錢然後績效你都不會去了解我們會成立一個投資管理那就是你的態度啊我們會成立一個投資管理沒有 我們的態度是會成立一個平台的管理"},{"start":8045.526,"end":8074.018,"text":"各位先請回下位 羅明財 羅明財 羅明財不在好屬於在這邊宣布登記發言委員除不在場之外 區域均勻發言完畢 訓導結束由委員洪孟凱 徐欣雲 張家俊陳超明所提書面質詢列入紀錄 刊登公報書面質詢及未及答案部分期相關檔一週之內相關"},{"start":8075.778,"end":8085.886,"text":"書面答覆並附資本會委員另有要求期限從期鎖定另外最後一點重要我先喝口水"},{"start":8096.53,"end":8108.334,"text":"各位委員 如果針對預算如果相關提案 起於5月6號星期二 下午5點之前五月6號 星期二 下午5點之前送經濟委員會辦公室 一例後續會審預詞不再收案討論事項 鎖鏈議案詢答結束 另定期繼續進行審查"},{"start":8126.403,"end":8128.764,"text":"辛苦大家了 謝謝大家 現在散會"},{"start":8170.911,"end":8171.131,"text":"鸡蛋"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}