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大家都請你們啦"},{"start":2267.126,"end":2271.488,"text":"不然每一個來備詢的我們這個司法法制委因為我在輪值的時候對大家都很客氣都會請大家喝咖啡今天你們來了太多今天被你們打擾了今天就抱歉特別提醒我們這個審查預算相關的提案在5月11號下午2點截止收案"},{"start":2286.155,"end":2294.862,"text":"我們預時就不予受理那請機關於之後的會議處理提案之前利用時間先跟提案的委員進行溝通協調以利後續的預算的一個審查我們現在就來進行司法院相關預算案的機關報告發言時間五分鐘我們現在請司法院秘書長高金之秘書長來做報告"},{"start":2313.015,"end":2314.723,"text":"這裡,這邊你的,這邊是要幫忙的,那邊你要幫忙的"},{"start":2322.852,"end":2344.783,"text":"主席各位委員各位女士各位先生本人代表司法院及所屬各機關向各位報告司法院及所屬主管115年度收支預算案限就施政計畫重點預算編列概況還有行政院加注意見摘要報告如下第一個審判行政部分"},{"start":2346.083,"end":2365.977,"text":"強化審計功能持續推動大法庭制度發揮終審法院統一法律見解確保法律適用一致性落實金字塔型訴訟結構提高審判效能第二個積極健全法治持續檢視研修憲法訴訟法審理規則及相關執法"},{"start":2369.299,"end":2384.683,"text":"簡修民事訴訟法以及以完善民事訴訟法制落實勞動事件與商業事件之專業審理機制修正強制執行法與債務清理法以保障人權與經濟發展"},{"start":2388.084,"end":2412.925,"text":"刑事訴訟法打造堅實事實制度並為因應一一三年憲判制第八號判決意旨研修刑事訴訟法以保障生命權防禦權及正當法律程序強化犯罪被害人之訴訟參與地位及權益保障精進量刑資訊系統完善量刑法制持續研修刑事案件妥適量刑"},{"start":2413.806,"end":2434.534,"text":"法草案制定及修正少年司法制度之重要法規並建置少年修復式司法機制研修家事事件法規以落實正當程序保障謀求未成年子女最佳利益推動精神衛生法專家參審制度以及配套執法"},{"start":2436.127,"end":2464.123,"text":"持續推動稅務行政事件審理法的法制作業落實國民法官制度掌握實務運作強化法院審判與行政專業智能並完善保護與照料配套措施確保國民法官安心的參與審判推動訴訟外紛爭解決機制結合社會資源強化調解功能有效疏減送援"},{"start":2465.284,"end":2480.366,"text":"關於司法行政部分從此審判智能持續維護審判資訊平台舉辦研討會及研期來提升裁判品質完善法院秩序維護及司法權益保障"},{"start":2481.187,"end":2508.714,"text":"督促落實安全出庭環境與措施保護弱勢族群司法權益維護司法禁用權落實程序公開透明以及辨明措施提供線上查詢還有傳送書狀線上閱覽推廣電子輸送文書服務以適當方式實施公開播送推動科技導入司法行政"},{"start":2510.974,"end":2524.525,"text":"還有辦理教育訓練提升審判及行政幕僚專業之能並配合相關法令修正及實務運作需求適時更新行政同仁制作業手冊與公文立考"},{"start":2525.265,"end":2551.257,"text":"促進國際司法交流 透過分析我國判決以及參與國際會議提升我國法制能見度 落實司法課則提升法官自律 強化法官評鑑制度加強研究發展與效能管理考察研究各國法制 完善各項訴訟制度及司法行政作為發揮舒緩司法行政負擔效能"},{"start":2551.997,"end":2576.889,"text":"加強溝通互動掌握司法輿情並及時回應運用多元媒體宣導施政理念深化社會溝通妥辦法律服務輔助監督財團法人法律輔助基金會之業務運作財務狀況及提供品質以保障民眾訴訟權關於預算編列情形我們說入部分"},{"start":2578.339,"end":2582.502,"text":"編列了7億1023萬餘元主要系規費收入稅出部分編列33億6千萬餘元比114年度增列41億3千多萬佔115年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":2598.24,"end":2617.859,"text":"1%主要用途是包含人事費業務費還有設備費本院及所屬機關稅入稅出詳細列表情形請參閱所附的稅入來源別及稅出機關別預算表那對行政院加注意見是說明有關行政院針對員額人事費"},{"start":2619.901,"end":2645.393,"text":"公務車輛辦公廳設簽件計劃及捐助法律輔助經濟會等家族意見本院經予提出因應方法節於115年度司法院主管預算案系因應剛剛所報告的業務推展所必須並配合施政重點審慎編列敬請大院各位委員能指教並給予支持謝謝"},{"start":2649.167,"end":2658.469,"text":"好 謝謝高秘書長那接下來請財團法人法律輔助基金會執行長周漢威執行長來做報告"},{"start":2666.109,"end":2694.068,"text":"主席 各位委員 僅代表法律輔助基金會就本會一一五年度工作計畫及預算收支提出業務報告一一四年度法律輔助基金會已提供二十三萬件相關的法律輔助其中包含訴訟代理約七萬件民事的部分因為詐欺案件的增加佔百分之五十一點五八最高民事案件約佔兩萬多件 百分之三十四家事案件約佔百分之九"},{"start":2694.988,"end":2713.369,"text":"本會除了接受勞動部、園民會、衛福部委託辦理相關的輔助計畫以外,2014年度也接受了內政部委託辦理住宅租賃糾紛法律輔助專案,為台灣的弱勢透過其他部會的捐助,提供更健全的法律輔助體系保護。"},{"start":2714.847,"end":2730.896,"text":"在115年最重要的事情是國民法官二階段的上路本會自112年1月1號國民法官法施行上路以後積極的跟全國律師聯合會跟各地律師公會辦理律師教育訓練的課程以增加"},{"start":2731.676,"end":2755.048,"text":"輔助律師的量能以外也提升輔助律師的專業因為國民法官辦理案件耗時相對較多所以我們也反映輔助律師實際辦理的公量將法律輔助法規定的酬金從1000元先調整到1500元再調整到2000元以反映律師在辦理國民法官的付出那15年更重要的是精神衛生法在11年12月14號通過以後"},{"start":2757.709,"end":2775.657,"text":"將在一一五年這裡正式施行所謂的專家參審的合議制度那由醫師病權團體還有法官共同組成參審法庭針對嚴重病人是不是要強制住院審查該才法官保留因為審理狀況的變更所以法律輔助基金會這裡也跟衛福部這裡在針對嚴重病人開啟新的專案"},{"start":2779.839,"end":2793.427,"text":"針對嚴重病人若遭申請強制住院這個部分我們能夠指派輔助律師及時提供緊急安置時的法律諮詢後續送強制住院時候也有非送代理的程序以保障嚴重病人的權利"},{"start":2794.207,"end":2800.315,"text":"本會115年的預算配合相關工作計畫的編列總共編列了16億8820萬相較114年這個部分是減少470萬元減少的原因是因為本會開始辦理相關的律師品質控管的計畫所以律師在開辦"},{"start":2812.19,"end":2828.358,"text":"或是結案的時間有稍微延遲一點所以整個預算調整後115年度的預算相較114年還減少了470萬而也感謝司法院今年也有另外捐助本會基金2000萬那以上是本會的業務報告還請各位委員多加支持跟指教謝謝"},{"start":2836.308,"end":2853.017,"text":"機關代表報告發言完畢相關的書面內容就請各位來做參閱並列入公報記錄我們現在來開始進行詢問那本會的委員詢問時間八分鐘必要的時候可以延長兩分鐘"},{"start":2854.818,"end":2868.723,"text":"非本會委員尋答時間五分鐘並不再延長那上午十點三十分截止發言登記我們現在就請登記第一位陳昭之委員來做尋答謝謝主席 有請秘書長請高秘書長"},{"start":2886.735,"end":2888.076,"text":"還不至於癱瘓,還可以運作可是很辛苦"},{"start":2905.965,"end":2917.188,"text":"那祕書長2024年卓院長上任的時候他有個口號非常震天響因為他這個姓氏在那向選民宣告要做這個打詐的決心他說會讓想騙的不能騙已經騙的會被抓那已經騙到手的沒得花但是兩年過去了請問祕書長司法院轄下的這個法院審理的詐欺案件件數有減少嗎有沒有減少 有或沒有"},{"start":2935.711,"end":2941.695,"text":"沒有啦 沒有 應該沒有減少啦我們大家都看到數字了我們現在的打詐國家隊越打越多詐騙現在是想詐騙的繼續騙已經騙的不一定會被抓到然後騙到手的可能大筆花整個司法系統從警察 檢察官甚至到法院的法官我看到是被詐欺案件癱瘓的那你說還不至於癱瘓可能是"},{"start":2966.091,"end":2967.732,"text":"還勉強可以運作是嗎秘書長我接下來有一些數字請你參考"},{"start":2997.111,"end":3009.995,"text":"2025年地檢署詐欺案件起訴的人數創下新高那我麻煩你看一下最右邊這一條藍色的部分其中單純車手被起訴的人數創新高高達39,611人單純的車手那秘書長您知道為什麼車手抓不完嗎越抓越多嗎您簡單的說您認為為什麼會這樣"},{"start":3026.161,"end":3033.717,"text":"車手創新高欸這個跟委員報告齁其實因為他容易賺錢這是最重要的原因"},{"start":3034.773,"end":3039.194,"text":"農藝前誘人我們也是要來想辦法不管是本來就台灣不應該淪為詐騙國家或是說卓院長的這個承諾我們再下來有很多驚心動魄的數字根據2024年的警政署的統計光是9到12個月9到4個月短短4個月台灣抓了5123名少年嫌犯"},{"start":3057.978,"end":3067.89,"text":"秘書長您可知道這當中有多少正在被詐騙集團黑化嗎我的意思是說這當中有多少是涉及這個詐欺案件嗎 您知道嗎這些少年嫌犯大概多少比率 您知道嗎如果依這個委員你這邊所檢了 他就已經將近"},{"start":3077.148,"end":3080.55,"text":"超過三分之一啦對幾乎都是這種狀況也就是每三個被抓到的少年犯超過喔都是涉及詐欺就一個涉及詐欺更離譜的就是那四個月1761名詐欺少年當中高達72.63%他就是在第一線當車手欸當子彈的車手啊這個數字是非常的確實的秘書長就請您再繼續參考"},{"start":3104.486,"end":3108.307,"text":"所以我一開始問為什麼詐騙集團可以招攬到這麼多少年車手呢為什麼這些車手都不怕抓呢請看檢報上的數字這近三年來全台灣地檢署受理詐欺案件被告申請定職刑刑的件數從2023年的3109件到2024年3508件到2025年已經高達4341件六都地方檢察署受理這個詐欺罪"},{"start":3133.194,"end":3148.973,"text":"定因執行型的建樹一直在攀升其中你看中間那個台中地檢署增加量最快定因執行型被詐騙集團當作招募人才的工具一方面檢察官累壞了"},{"start":3150.154,"end":3158.883,"text":"另外一方面法官處理這個案子也會花掉很多很多的時間這個數字都是非常清楚的那秘書長我想請問你您知道現在詐騙集團是用定執行刑的這個制度來招攬車手嗎來招攬他的犯罪成員嗎您知道嗎"},{"start":3167.911,"end":3185.666,"text":"您有聽我嗎 還是您有感覺嗎 您知道這件事嗎我相信包括這個因素在內這個是一個重要因素 你看2025年攀升了這麼多這個是警訊喔 難道我們要眼睜睜看著我們有限的司法的人力跟資源花這麼多心力時間在詐騙案子上嗎"},{"start":3187.188,"end":3203.043,"text":"那當應執行的這個案制度被詐騙集團用來當作工具的時候而且嚴重到我認為是癱瘓了這個法官您認為就是說還不至於啦但是數字是清清楚楚在這裡您覺得需不需要檢討呢"},{"start":3204.642,"end":3231.194,"text":"定職刑刑制要不要檢討呢本院對於關於這個各種案件不是只有詐欺案件的定職刑刑我們都一直在檢討中希望法官要能夠重視這個定職刑刑的這個基準是謝謝你為什麼我會這樣說下來我有很多數字讓您參考秘書長這個我找了幾個定職刑刑的這個裁定給您參考這個案子張姓受刑人他犯詐欺罪42次"},{"start":3232.85,"end":3252.669,"text":"最後定執行刑是三年兩個月我還有一個比一個更離譜的四十二次然後三年兩個月那下面這個是高院裁定的林姓受刑人原本台北地方法官針對他十一個詐欺犯罪的判決是定了八年六個月的執行刑結果高院說啊高院說什麼呢"},{"start":3253.129,"end":3272.594,"text":"刑責恐加偏重過苛不符現代刑事政策及刑法之社會功能第一次犯罪才剛滿18歲原審就付表各罪所定因執行刑為有期徒刑8年6月容有過重所以高院就認為被告抗告有理啊就改定執行刑為4年6個月請問秘書長您現在看到這兩個案例定執行刑的裁定你有什麼想法嗎您覺得這樣車手會害怕嗎"},{"start":3282.893,"end":3297.589,"text":"當然如委員所說 以這麼多建樹來講對於車手來 他們的感受是沒有感受到一個刑罰的苛責度所以您看這個數字 您有感嗎 民俗長"},{"start":3300.432,"end":3318.052,"text":"為什麼這個制度變成現在這個詐騙集團招攬尤其少年車手的一個工具秘書長下面這個台中地院的裁定更誇張黃姓受刑人本來被宣告的刑度加起來有11年4個月前面幾次都已經訂過執行刑了"},{"start":3319.514,"end":3343.347,"text":"那編號1349被台中地院定執行刑三年六個月編號25678的案件被台北地院定執行刑一年兩個月最後秀行又再申請一次定執行刑把所有案件一起定執行刑三年六個月加一年兩個月原本是四年八個月那最後法院又定完又少了兩個月變成四年六個月秘書長"},{"start":3344.327,"end":3359.92,"text":"這些詐騙集團很會利用司法的資源很會利用法律上對他們有利的規定一直犯罪一直申請定執行刑然後走完後又因為有其他案件然後又拼在一起再申請定一次一定再定刑度"},{"start":3360.58,"end":3384.993,"text":"一再減少這就是我們耗費龐大的社會資源跟司法資源最後卻是這樣的結果難怪詐欺案一直發生主謀抓不到車手抓不完秘書長你能接受嗎我現在可以看這案例你能接受嗎當然第一個案件本身它是審判核心我們先就可能有個案考量情形所以對於各種個案考量情形本院已經秘書長我知道你會談個案在醫學上個案要通案要有個案我今天已經舉了"},{"start":3389.375,"end":3396.877,"text":"好多個應該要靠近靠近一個通案了還有其他的這個統計數字啦秘書長定職行變成詐騙集團的招攬車手小弟的工具癱瘓整個法院系統檢查體系這個問題我在三個月三月的時候也執行過法務部部長那為了改變這個現狀是不是司法院也要來跟法務部做溝通推動修法呢"},{"start":3412.02,"end":3440.156,"text":"因為就是說也沒有想要修改這些法條但是在修法完成之前還有一段時間那眼前你怎麼樣避免這種定執行刑愈定愈輕的這個狀況呢還是秘書長覺得這本來就是如此沒有沒有沒有我們本院就對於關於定執行刑的部分我們有頒布一個很重要的參考要點就是讓法官們在定執行刑時一定要注意到除了維持更生以外你也要注意剛剛委員一直"},{"start":3441.417,"end":3469.262,"text":"所提到的這個刑事資源的浪費就是這個刑罰經濟還有對於跟民眾的罰款的一致性我希望司法院聯手聯手法務部大家來檢討看看嘛因為打詐是失敗的嘛越打越詐嘛越多我給大家看了這麼多數字好那我另外一個問題秘書長司法體系面臨人力外流問題對書記官人數大逃亡啊近年來刑事總受理案件其實讓持續增加案件是增加的"},{"start":3469.682,"end":3488.335,"text":"已經開始有法官同時要處理書記官的工作法官一邊主持一邊審判程序一邊在打字記錄目前我知道行政院好像有通過刑訴法部分修正條我要送立法院來解決刑事訴訟程序冗長的問題不過秘書長這是中長期的計畫但是體系是年久失修讓緩不及急請問你有短期的應變措施嗎如何來面對眼前人力大失血"},{"start":3500.382,"end":3523.629,"text":"您有尽情的做法吗第一个当然就是这个书记官的离职的缺职务代理人我们希望我们让他可以上法庭协助法官第二个就是关于书记官其实书记官工作几乎是两份工作我们一定要让他减少一份事务性的工作这个是我们这个要征补"},{"start":3524.869,"end":3540.043,"text":"委外人力來全力協助秘書長也承認是不夠的嘛我們剛剛我做的建議就一邊是源頭要減量嘛那些一再重複的等等等等而且造成社會很大的困擾的你就把這些專業人員累死累垮了然後一方面為什麼不進來就檢討嘛跟醫界一樣嘛"},{"start":3543.305,"end":3557.893,"text":"醫事人員整個要清空了以後沒有來從事這個行業嘛那我們不能這樣做所以秘書長就是說這個東西要當作除了修法是很慢的時間啦長期的時間眼前怎麼做非常的重要"},{"start":3559.634,"end":3583.025,"text":"您剛剛談的是原則問題啊那現在準備嗎?跟委員報告我們已經是具體的來執行了一定要讓書記官的工作的束縛性工作一定要讓出去讓他只做核心工作這樣子才能夠讓書記官的工作不會那麼繁重這是我們已經在具體執行的那當然增援是我們必要的那這要這個"},{"start":3584.906,"end":3608.333,"text":"行政院支持那另外大家一直呼籲的書記官的薪水過低值等過低值等過低部分也是我們在努力的薪水過部分不是我們可以完全達成的對於法院法官還有書記官等等等等這個如果人力是不足的你在這方面如果你有好的辦法我們清楚的一些做事的方法規範在經費上我們不會苛責的我們會給予支持的好嗎民主黨謝謝"},{"start":3614.155,"end":3615.316,"text":"好 謝謝主席你看都不敢跟你打斷但問題這也很麻煩吳宗憲以前在這個地方當召委我們就聽了這整個詐騙說立法院一直修法來把它給加重看起來其實是"},{"start":3635.438,"end":3662.199,"text":"案件越來越多 確實是一直在打擊犯罪那法院這邊也負荷好像也越來越重然後法律越來越重 組織也不好中線 到現在我只是坐到聽到聲那重點就是說 這個整個詐騙在台灣變成一個產業而且非常的一個專業 這個犯罪變得越來越專業我們也抓不到上游 也斷不了金流那跨境的部分又打不到"},{"start":3663.12,"end":3669.748,"text":"檢察官拚命起訴完以後法院這邊負荷很重立法院我們這邊把刑度把它拉高了"},{"start":3670.872,"end":3692.104,"text":"雙手一攤 這個問題還是存在但是剛程昭市委員提出那個也非常好他說要怎麼減少 我看應該是分流 不是減少除惡勿進 簡單 我的想法是除惡勿進本來就是要除惡勿進 可是案子一大堆一大堆以後你沒有去做一個分流的話法院這邊人手又是只有這樣子而已 再想想來 接下來我們請吳宗憲委員來 雙管長也是跟我們交眼睛"},{"start":3701.059,"end":3719.944,"text":"謝謝主席 那我們麻煩秘書長請教秘書長刑事廳邵家廳及民事廳廳長好 來 黏住了 起來一下來 刑事廳許廳長嘛那等一下 主要是要請教那個秘書長那可能要麻煩三位廳長如果有必要的時候要好 相關的首長"},{"start":3724.804,"end":3739.931,"text":"好 四位辛苦了我想我們今天就直接先從預算的部分開始提出我看了一下115年度的主管預算稅出編列是比114年多了增加了14.31%因為你們的這個增幅是遠高於中央政府"},{"start":3747.475,"end":3774.134,"text":"的總預算的成長幅度啦所以說我對這部分就會稍微了解一下那你們的施政報告寫的說司法為民提升人民信任保護兒少生育障礙者這些我都支持啦但是我要問的是預算的增加那到底有沒有帶來幾個比如有沒有第一個人民的安全感第二個被害人的尊嚴第三個司法正義這個有沒有一起增加我想請教一下民主黨"},{"start":3774.514,"end":3776.617,"text":"本院這次預算增加最重要的是因為有兩個建築案一個是那個新北"},{"start":3791.775,"end":3818.974,"text":"地院的購地還有一個就是台南高分院的這個大樓舊大樓興建這兩筆占掉了很大的預算所以表面看起來我們增加很多那剛剛委員所提到的其實對於這個少家還有刑事被害人還有剛剛委員所提到的我們讓民眾感受到司法的正義其實我們在業務費上面"},{"start":3819.654,"end":3844.665,"text":"尤其對於售價部分我們是編列他們提出來有需要的我們是逐列編列當然最重要的是法制面我們必須要去落實那這樣我就知道就是說你們的征服是有它的原因跟必要性那我們了解之後我都不會有任何意見但是我要請問一個就是說因為預算中心有提一個報告就是說第一個少年那個保護管束風險管理計畫6500萬"},{"start":3848.407,"end":3877.337,"text":"這個預算中心他直接說有超過一半55%他是屬於一般事務費那這個部分呢其實是缺乏評估跟管理機制第二個少年車手還有妨礙秩序案件的人數不停的攀升那這個東西呢這計畫到底能夠能夠讓多少人不再犯多少家庭可以被妥善的安置他沒有具體的細目這個都是這個預算中心的報告那因為時間的關係我想這個可不可以麻煩你們派人來跟我們辦公室溝通"},{"start":3877.737,"end":3892.786,"text":"因為我看完這個報告我也覺得這個預算中心的這個說法是有道理的請來跟我們說明一下會會會 細節性的部分我們給委員執行報告就是那個司法需要的預算只要合理我們一定支持我們不會說惡意的去擋好 謝謝那再來我今天會用三個"},{"start":3893.386,"end":3909.337,"text":"不同方向的資料來請教你們第一個當然就是說我們剛剛講到預算中心的提醒錢要怎麼花自立法院的預算中心第二個審計部他也有提出一些有無完成施政目標跟制度那第三個監察院也有提出從新北校園割核案"},{"start":3910.848,"end":3925.137,"text":"的教訓的一些提醒我們從這三個不同單位的資料我們來去跟你們討論一下制度的建置風險的管理還有被害人跟證人的保護這幾個問題那現在第一個我先想跟您提出來的因為之前的"},{"start":3926.198,"end":3942.094,"text":"那個代理秘書長他今天也在現場嘛秘書長也在所以我們一直提了一個東西就是司法院草案對於少年前科的突銷我一直主張有問題那我之前也質詢過兩次因為現在是一律三年請問一下"},{"start":3943.375,"end":3963.539,"text":"一個竊盜案跟一個重大的殺人案的前科突銷都一樣是三年這部分我認為有問題請問民主黨您同不同意我的主張這個一定要修改所以我們已經把草案已經整修這個制定完畢我們要在5月22號就要送進我們的院會就會討論完畢就要送會嫌再請到院長"},{"start":3966.9,"end":3990.325,"text":"謝謝秘書長因為我的職責我必須點出一些貴院在草案上面不對的地方所以這部分謝謝你們願意修改因為我還是認為這樣啦這個草案你要注意到幾個重要的我們的主軸社會防衛刑罰的正義被害人感受還有預防再犯當這四個要點我們都要注重的時候我們不能一刀切一律三年就徒消前科"},{"start":3991.165,"end":4011.239,"text":"這對外面這些學生 善良的學生 善良的百姓是不公平的這部分就麻煩你們一定要做到好 那接下來我下一個問題北部的邵家法院 這個一直喊卡啦因為我看到那個審計部的意見他說第一個 你們超過十年都還沒有啟動這個興建的作業"},{"start":4014.841,"end":4035.991,"text":"那還有就是說我之前也有用監察院的報告也有提到過就是說現行的行政輔導先行也沒有辦法及早預防曝險的行為那這幾個狀況之下我想請問一下這個邵家法院目前狀況到底是怎麼樣有沒有要成立"},{"start":4036.411,"end":4061.997,"text":"跟委員報告因為台北我們北部地區要找到一個法院的院子非常困難所以本院立刻在新北還有士林各成立一個這個家事大樓尋求一個家事大樓讓台北地區能夠分三個地方去處理這個少年事件所以這個三個地區已經積極在"},{"start":4064.097,"end":4093.397,"text":"我懂你的意思了我懂你就是選址不易啦但是我要跟你們提一下監察院審計部都點出這個問題說你們一直沒有做到在新北校園割紅案之後我們發現一個狀況我們要去思考到少年司法專業化的重要性所以我希望因為今天所有的院長都在我希望司法院能夠熟面回覆我一個第一個北邵家目前沒辦法的話替代方案是什麼第二個替代計畫完成之後"},{"start":4093.997,"end":4114.729,"text":"北三院少年案件專業人力要怎麼樣補上這先給我一個書面說明好 謝謝那再來我再提一個東西主要是新北少年割紅外案這個案子其實讓我有很多啟發讓社會有很多啟發我們重新回過頭去思考少年的保護犯罪的少年犯的保護以及這些"},{"start":4115.609,"end":4130.084,"text":"善良學生的保護我們要怎麼去橫平這個一個很重要的點我想法官不是神法官的權利不是天上掉下來的很多時候我們必須去了解社會到底發生了什麼事那我自己一路從當檢察官到"},{"start":4132.326,"end":4151.198,"text":"當地方政府的局長到現在當立法委員我這有一個深刻的感覺我當檢察官的時候我真的沒有都搞不清楚外面發生什麼事情一個殺人案我只聚焦在被告是怎麼死的我後來當了局長當了立法委員當民意代表才知道我會開始去思考他當年怎麼活的對他家人怎麼影響對社會怎麼影響"},{"start":4151.818,"end":4166.952,"text":"我當甲官完全不知道這個事但是我現在發現原來我以前聚焦在被害人怎麼死的而已這是不對的我們要去思考被害人當年怎麼活的以及對於還活著的家屬的影響是什麼我想這才是社會最重視的一個部分"},{"start":4169.113,"end":4184.462,"text":"我想說的是法官在法庭上面他代表的就是國家他的一句話一個訴訟指揮一個眼神其實對被告對那個當事人來說法庭上的當事人來說他不會覺得這個是法官對我他會覺得這是國家對我所以很多時候"},{"start":4185.714,"end":4206.64,"text":"法官司法有沒有能力站在當事人這個創傷的角度去跟他對話這是一個很重要的點他會不會覺得我是被迫被逼著接受某些事情新北哥侯案那個案子當然有一位那個可能是裴琦或什麼我不清楚他講了一句話說讓兇手來孝順你們當然這個後來"},{"start":4210.305,"end":4235.707,"text":"法院有新聞稿有出來說有說明為什麼啦但是呢高院當時確實是承認說法官確實有講這句話要兇手孝順被害人父母但是高院也有強調說這個是前手法官那是辯護人申請的而且當場就拒絕所以你們今天雖然講了這個話就是說我們一切合法這個也不是那個陳審法官最後的決定但是呢"},{"start":4236.508,"end":4264.788,"text":"對一個父母而言這個父母你對他而言他聽到的是什麼讓殺我兒子的少年出來孝順我這是很荒謬就像您剛剛說祝賀我說我剛剛生女兒但如果接著有一個人對我小孩怎麼樣我是跟他拼命你跟我講一句話叫他來孝順我我覺得這個是違反人性的一個說辭法院可不可以該不該講這句話是我們要去思考我承認這個東西沒有違法這句話沒有違法但是該不該這麼做我覺得請大家再次思考"},{"start":4265.608,"end":4284.133,"text":"這兩年來這個被害人家屬可能跟我們講他說每一次開完庭他回家都想自殺就你今天法官跟他講這句話也許我們第三者聽來沒什麼但對他們來說太沉重了那我想說我今天能夠在這邊跟各位報告跟各位以前很多是我以前的長官做這個報告"},{"start":4285.413,"end":4294.529,"text":"我今天在這邊當民意代表是何其有幸但是也何其沉重啦因為我們看到了很多其實社會上面這些事情源自於是我們司法的一些問題啦所以"},{"start":4296.96,"end":4325.532,"text":"我想今天這個事情不是在那句話是不是下裁判的那個法官講的也不是說這個到底有沒有強迫當事人去接受而是我們必須意識到一句話可能會對被害者家屬造成惡度傷害所以這部分可能是在我們在那個在職教育或等等的時候可能在能夠跟各位法官能夠說明但我也是尊重司法獨立但麻煩要注意一下這個部分好那再來還有一個問題我是要提到的"},{"start":4326.696,"end":4349.127,"text":"隱私權、個資的問題因為這個案子裡面發生一個狀況我們對於犯罪者的個資保護得非常非常的周延但是被害人家屬的資料卻在民事訴訟中全部攤開來包括他的土地在哪裡他的財產資料、老家地址所有姓名聯絡方式全部都被看到了"},{"start":4349.907,"end":4374.91,"text":"就我們一個案子我們對被告對殺人犯這麼的保護什麼都不可以講出去就我們卻用利誘讓他在民事程序裡面整個都被公開了我覺得這個完全不對啦你不能這樣到底這個家屬說到底司法在保護誰到底司法在保護我還是保護什麼人所以我覺得不能夠這樣是不是可以你們一件一個東西請你們知道一件事情"},{"start":4376.414,"end":4400.503,"text":"可不可以民事廳 刑事廳 少家你們大家協調一下對於當事人的保護因為我現在看到的是少家廳跟我講祖宗少年要保護民事廳說我要讓被告有答辯的權利刑事廳說我要發現真實就三個人在一起之後發生了一堆漏洞讓一堆資料都外洩可不可以 秘書長這可不可以請你們回去研議一下"},{"start":4401.383,"end":4420.694,"text":"給我一個資料給我一個回覆你們打算怎麼處理可以嗎 跟委員報告其實規定都有在我們會把三廳剛剛委員所提到的問題我們會整個綜合再跟委員報告好那我跟你講我們真的是希望一件事在這新北哥我們在社會上看到了很多很多的問題我希望"},{"start":4422.165,"end":4437.826,"text":"這個案子我們看到是少年保護有問題刑事審判有問題民事球場也有問題被害人安全有問題正能保護還有校園安全都出了問題所以這個部分真的要麻煩你們要幫忙這些家屬不能讓他們自己獨自去面對這個問題好不好"},{"start":4441.249,"end":4459.578,"text":"還有就是律師律師在法庭上面我們也看到一個就是說我絕對尊重辯護權我爸爸也是律師但是是不是法官在訴訟程序他在指揮的時候當律師他的行為從質疑證詞變成是壓迫證人"},{"start":4461.619,"end":4487.112,"text":"或是他從釐清事實變成是在撕開傷口在刺激被害人痛苦的時候法官是不是應該要適時的介入這個也要麻煩你們在教育的時候在那個在職教育的時候能夠去講因為法官如果沒有及時制止就人民的角度來說他不會認為這是辯護人的問題他只覺得國家怎麼會允許辯護人這樣對我因為很多當事人來跟我談的時候都說"},{"start":4488.152,"end":4503.359,"text":"律師比法官還要兇所以我希望說我是希望你們能夠建立一個全國一致的訴訟指揮的基準然後我希望一個月內可不可以提出一個另外提出一個重大暴力案件被害人家屬跟證人"},{"start":4504.479,"end":4526.608,"text":"那個程序的安全指引我想這已經有大概你們會有類似的東西一個月內能夠提出來給我那裡面必須要包含到被害人家屬各自遮蔽的規則明行哨家程序接軌的機制就我剛講的會不會因為接軌上的問題造成各自的外洩第三個兒哨還有學生證人出庭安全的SOP"},{"start":4527.868,"end":4548.14,"text":"因為有人跟我說學生出庭結果他跟其他人走都在外面通道等結果在現場就被人家圍起來恐嚇那第四個就是說還有一個就是庭後安全通報跟追蹤還有重大案件被害人跟證人友善出庭的訴訟之疑我希望"},{"start":4549.464,"end":4577.231,"text":"內容能夠包含這個因為民眾他不懂得我們各個廳之間的分際分工就不應該讓人民去承擔我們這個分工的破口好不好民主黨因為當人民走進法院的時候他希望得到的是他冤屈的伸張不是再一次受傷好嗎好謝謝因為我是司法體系出來我絕對支持司法我一定支持你們但是也請我們看到問題就幫我們一起解決好謝謝謝謝民主黨"},{"start":4580.531,"end":4587.674,"text":"謝謝吳宗憲委員也恭喜你家裡頭多了一位小公主怪不得這兩次的質詢都變得溫柔了最幸福的最幸福的父親有男又有女來接下來請最專業的翁曉琳委員來做詢問"},{"start":4604.486,"end":4607.709,"text":"謝謝我們這個最會鼓勵委員的莊昭偉我在這裡我首先我請高秘書長"},{"start":4623.556,"end":4639.146,"text":"秘書長好我首先先來講一下就是上禮拜一個也是蠻這個引起大家討論的司法新聞議題就是高雄某有一位六旬的婦人然後今年二月因為情緒失控大鬧超商也打傷了"},{"start":4641.067,"end":4641.908,"text":"高雄地方法院法官三度维持不积压"},{"start":4657.611,"end":4672.027,"text":"那這個期間當然檢察官也有提起羈押抗告那高院就是一直發回所以呢本期想請教就是說是其實我們知道在現在的刑事訴訟法裡面是沒有限制檢察官可以提起"},{"start":4672.868,"end":4699.716,"text":"羈押抗告的次數那麼這個高院法官的確依照信息制度也是可以一時發回可是像現在這樣的一個制度就變成說你檢察官可以一直的抗告然後上級法院又一再的撤銷發回那原始法官也可以一直的維持他原來的見解結果就是變成這個被告他可能就在羈押與否之間來回擺盪然後成為司法人球那所以請問秘書長你對於這個議題有沒有什麼解決的對策"},{"start":4704.35,"end":4716.848,"text":"這個羈押地院羈押檢察官抗告到高院撤銷最重要高院不能很難自為裁定因為後續有很多司法行政行為要做如果高院裁定下去的話後續相關"},{"start":4718.911,"end":4745.523,"text":"比如說怎麼移送啊或者是關於有一些科技設備的在高院是沒辦法做的然後還是要交還地院來做所以當然我們是鼓勵高院能夠自圍採地可是如果面臨這種困境他是會必須撤銷而且很多適時的斟酌卷證資料他大部分都會在地院而且很多低壓抗告是很"},{"start":4746.755,"end":4750.9,"text":"很緊急的好 謝謝秘書長的回覆因為事實上這個也不是說首例的案子過去也都曾經發生過五度五官的案子就是一直來回的積壓抗爭又被撤銷發回"},{"start":4762.894,"end":4786.296,"text":"所以事實上大家在法界都認為說這樣的情況基本上是沒有辦法去解決現實的問題那麼也希望就是高院法官應該要有承擔這個做出最後決定的這樣的一個責任跟勇氣而不是說一直把這個案子又丟回地獄又丟回地獄那本席其實也提出了相關的修法然後我記得"},{"start":4787.157,"end":4800.303,"text":"吳宗憲委員應該也有提出有關於就是檢察官申請羈抗告次數的限制這個大概都是為了我們在司法法制委員會我們會積極推動的法案所以我也希望說秘書長這邊可以回去好好的去看看現實務的狀況然後到時候如果說真的我們要提出相關修法的話也希望司法院能夠提出修法的建議"},{"start":4814.17,"end":4838.189,"text":"好 那麼接下來我還有一個問題就說請問一下我們一般的法院的職務代理人可以待多久的時間那個職務代理人要看原來的職務那位職務他請假多久那原則上呢不一定 像他如果是嬰假或者是他是長期的病假就是完全看原缺"},{"start":4838.789,"end":4865.728,"text":"好 看委員圈基本上如果按照行政院人事總處的規定就是依照各機關的職務代理的陰性注意事項規定原則上是只能夠代理一年如果說在沒有其他的運營假情況之下那麼例外的時候也許還可以再多延長但是那個例外的條件也都是很嚴格的那我在這邊請教就是說你有印象我們現在的司法院的院長曾經就是我們的代理院長"},{"start":4866.963,"end":4883.528,"text":"除了現在謝明揚之外還有誰曾經代理過司法院院長謝在泉啦 就謝在泉院長謝在泉院長那時候謝在泉代理院長那時候代理了幾個代理多久時間已經不長幾個月而已對幾個月不到三個月的時間可是你看我們現在謝明揚院長代理了多久"},{"start":4895.626,"end":4907.559,"text":"代理了一年半了已經代理了一年半的時間了這已經打破司法院的紀錄了吧同時我看也大概也打破了我們中華民國憲政史上的最高權力機關代理首長這個期間那麼謝明揚"},{"start":4911.784,"end":4939.861,"text":"这个大法官他基本上没有经过立法院同意任命可以去当院长虽然说依照我们现在的司法院组织法里面的规定确实是当院长副院长出缺可以由资深的大法官来担任这个代理院长然后一直到总统任命可是如果说总统一直不任命那看起来这个代理院长就一直待下去说实在话在这样子的一个宪政的这个争议当中我觉得谢明阳院长"},{"start":4940.862,"end":4943.889,"text":"它是蒙受其利"},{"start":4947.355,"end":4976.214,"text":"大法官然後現在又當司法院的院長他沒有經過我們司法這個立法院同意任命然後直接當這個接代理院長那代理院長的期間他原則上本來應該是要秉持著維持現狀的原則還有最小必要原則他不應該要去發布人事令或是做一些重要的這個政策的一個決定可是我們現在的院長好像不是這麼做委員因為司法院組織法規定在那裡就是依法"},{"start":4977.057,"end":4989.688,"text":"是 所以代理院長我就說嘛這就是一個本來這是一個原則他沒有想到說會代理這麼久嘛那我現在要講的就是說是到底我們的這些大法官司法院院長有沒有去向總統報告"},{"start":4992.191,"end":5010.897,"text":"要上書給總統基於憲法忠誠義務應該要競訴的要補提名司法院院長副院長還有大法官有嗎我不清楚我也沒辦法提他們我看應該是沒有所以我這邊我要譴責這些大法官譴責司法院的謝明陽代理院長"},{"start":5012.148,"end":5038.147,"text":"我看他現在是越做越順根本不想下台了非常有可能啊因為他反正現在整個憲法法庭擺爛啊就意思可以做做做做到明年九月我真的很不齒這樣的一個狀況一個有風骨的大法官絕對不會放任現在的憲法法庭只有八位大法官而且還可以做出違憲的五人判決"},{"start":5040.049,"end":5060.69,"text":"然後司法院院長代理期間這麼久然後也沒有積極的去請命請這個總統趕快要補提名大法官第一個我沒辦法替院長代理院長回覆第二個司法院主事法規定在哪裡第三個這個大法官提名權在總統都不是我們能夠我知道我知道這不是秘書長但是我今天要透過"},{"start":5062.111,"end":5082.884,"text":"跟您交流这个议题来凸显出现在司法院跟宪法法庭的荒谬我们现在审宪法法庭的预算我都不知道是不是应该全部解冻全部冻结等到大法官补提名上任之后至少补到时隔之后才可以解冻否则我们现在要宪法法庭运作什么"},{"start":5083.9,"end":5112.361,"text":"報告委員他們還不是我只是坦白說這個議題基本上當然跟秘書長已經無關可是呢我要講就是說是現在司法院出現的這樣的一個荒謬因為他是代理院長他本來就不應該做出重大的這個政策決定可是現在偏偏司法院的這個院長他是總管司法院還有所屬法院然後包含人事各方面這都是要院長他要能夠有這個擔當有這個能力去做的但是他只是個代理"},{"start":5113.101,"end":5135.76,"text":"可是代理院長就是要執行院長的職務我剛做出來我甚至我都覺得說不好意思這麼講了他連發布您當秘書長的這個人士令我都覺得有問題好那麼接下來我還在這個問的另外一個問題就是我們知道其實司法院早就有頒布了法庭席位佈置規則在這個附圖當中其實也清楚了標示"},{"start":5141.909,"end":5158.083,"text":"要有被害人告訴人以及代理人的這個席次的專屬位置基本上不在旁聽區可是呢事實上我們知道現在各級法院的法庭當中好像並沒有並不是所有的法庭都有依照這個佈置規則來設置專屬的席位"},{"start":5161.466,"end":5169.031,"text":"各位委員報告只要法庭的空間夠一定有那有時候是受限於法庭的空間他可能就會讓他可是受限於法庭的空間的這個幾乎我本心認為這個不構成理由啦我希望說司法院還是要能夠這個積極的去解決這件事情對積極去解決否則的話就是對於被害人還有被害人的家屬來講他們覺得說他們的這個在這個訴訟上的地位角色就被弱化了這是給"},{"start":5191.767,"end":5202.105,"text":"这个当时很不好的印象所以呢本期希望能够落实席位的设置是好不好好还有另外接下来还有一个议题跟法福基金会有关的"},{"start":5204.36,"end":5224.951,"text":"這邊請教秘書長其實本席在先前我已經也不斷的有質詢過這個議題依照我們法律輔助法的第六條的規定法服基金的捐助總金額應該是在新台幣100億可是從法服成立到現在22年了你們捐助的只有38億距離這個法定的這個捐助金額100億還超過"},{"start":5227.373,"end":5242.792,"text":"還缺口超過60億那你們今年也只有捐2000萬我不知道為什麼司法院這樣拖拖拉拉因為不容易什麼叫不容易你們可以編列預算啊對不對你依法就該編列預算編列預算就是要整個要到位啊"},{"start":5243.773,"end":5268.866,"text":"跟委員報告我這邊容許這邊做一個簡單的說明就是說去年委員執行以後我們這邊跟司法院針對資金這裡的活化我們有做一些相關的安排包含可以買銀行債可以做更寬廣的投資甚至購置官社但是因為基金的運用在法律上它有相關的限制所以貿然撥補這個部分在後續的資金運用上也會產生這個部分的效益問題本期要說的這個就是我們法律的明定"},{"start":5269.546,"end":5292.532,"text":"如果說你司法院或是法服認為說現在的法律的規定不好不應該採取成立財團法人成立基金會的方式來處理法律輔助的相關事情的話你也可以提修法嘛對不對譬如說改成像是日本類似行政法人韓國的話他就是隸屬在法務部底下"},{"start":5294.468,"end":5317.007,"text":"可能也是以做行政法人或是行政機關的這個角色可是明明我們現在司法院每年都編列將近14億15億的預算給法服然後你捐助2000萬你如果說你100億就到位接下來就法服自己的事情司法院也不需要編列那麼多的預算"},{"start":5317.427,"end":5326.852,"text":"跟委員報告因為依法乎法規定他們的業務費是我們法定必須編列的所以他的主要是業務費那個區塊是法定要編列的"},{"start":5327.976,"end":5341.988,"text":"我覺得這不是理由 重要的是說你們這個一百億你沒有到位一百億我到位的話你至少你司法院你可以少編列幾億吧至少可以少編列幾億的業務費所以本席這邊要求就是我這次預算案我也會做一個這個一個凍結的一個停止條件我希望你們要提出相關的法服"},{"start":5353.038,"end":5371.619,"text":"的這個改造組織改造的這個計畫或是提出相關的修法否則的話你們就應該要到位就是看是每年才五年的時間然後把這個錢全部都補足到位之後就法服自己要去負責他們的盈虧"},{"start":5373,"end":5393.326,"text":"要量力而為嘛量入為出不是說完全都是靠司法院來給予這個相關的獎譜助費業務上面的獎譜助費喔好那麼最後還有一個議題就是也是本席每一次每年這個年度預算時候我都會問的有關於陳水扁的庭審案為什麼到現在為止這個法院都還沒有"},{"start":5402.369,"end":5420.232,"text":"提都還沒有這個重新回覆審判這個跟委員報告因為這是個案我很難在這邊回答好那本席的要求請你們提供給我近20年來因為庭審而導致追訴權失效的案件是"},{"start":5421.013,"end":5441.483,"text":"然後呢也請你們提供就是有關於這個個案裡面到底相關的懲辦法官還有他的所屬長官我不知道是不是高院的院長對於這個在延遲辦案的時候他們不是應該都會有這個相關的這個懲核的記錄麻煩司法院提供給我今天因為這個質詢的時間我想我就不耽誤這邊了就請"},{"start":5447.42,"end":5450.823,"text":"這司法院提供給我相關的資料以上謝謝好謝謝翁曉琳委員的詢答接下來請張雅玲委員來做詢答謝謝主席有請司法院秘書長請高秘書長"},{"start":5478.85,"end":5504.21,"text":"謝謝 好那首先呢我先來請教有關於少事法修法的這個問題就是說特別對於少年犯的刑期假釋條件以及假釋後如何銜接少年保護管束的問題那因為我自己在115年的主管預算案裡面有看到在審判業務項目有少年保護管束風險管理計劃等經費單位預算也編列了少年事件調查保護制度分流研究委員會計劃"},{"start":5505.151,"end":5525.473,"text":"所以我看起來就是在針對整個邵氏法的修法是不是有許多相關的研究跟會議在這都是為了這些這個邵氏法的修法來做的一些經費嗎可不可以簡單說明那個剛剛委員所提到那個是曝洩怎麼銜接少年的部分那另外那個並不是在邵氏法"},{"start":5526.073,"end":5548.725,"text":"修正範圍裡面那關於少司法修正剛剛有報告過我們已經把草案完畢尤其大家關切的前案塗銷還有假釋這個部分我們在5月22號就要進入院會討論如果一切圓滿結束我們就要送會前就要送大院那我想請問一下因為我自己其實非常關注這件事情我想聽轉也非常清楚"},{"start":5549.645,"end":5577.632,"text":"那我知道司法院在今年已經召開了三次的諮詢及研商會議但是呢我們跟你們所知那你們給我的回覆是你們給我的回覆是說因為上開會議之記錄結論決議事項會議資料簡報書面一件及會後追蹤事項等資料依據政府資訊公開法第十八條第一項第三款規定無法提供我想問一下立法委員所會議資"},{"start":5579.172,"end":5606.998,"text":"記錄的資料為什麼不能提供呢這個本來就可以提供啊不然立法委員要怎麼監督呢我們只是一個會議記錄的資料想要了解說你們對於這些的一個討論的方向是什麼然後再來跟你們討論但是你現在不提供給我我們要怎麼跟你們做討論呢因為整個會議就是在討論中他討論方向就是不定所以我們提供給委員但是他如果有符合公義有必要的話也是可以提供的啊"},{"start":5608.86,"end":5624.078,"text":"因為任何統一變動性太高了我們提出來反而誤導委員一定是整個會議記錄結束進入我們的法案我們就會送大會因為你整個會議的研究其實它的方向是一直在變動中的"},{"start":5625.579,"end":5642.302,"text":"這是最重要的但是你們5月12號都已經要送大約那看起來今天已經也5月4號了嘛對不對所以基本上應該也有一個方向確定了不是嗎所以我們那個所以我們那個草案就會出來那會計如果不能提供呢我們來看一下對啊"},{"start":5643.343,"end":5669.781,"text":"因為會議記錄本身它是變化中而且牽涉到個人發言的資訊好沒關係既然你們已經有幾個方向那是不是可以簡單說明一下就是有關於因為其實我們少年犯是不能用成人的標準這是根據CRC第24號一般性意見書裡面就有提到說兒童司法的制度就是適用於未滿18歲的人也就是說他是不是適用少年司法關鍵都是在於他使用"},{"start":5670.501,"end":5684.323,"text":"他當時的年紀啦所以我想請教針對幾件事情就是有關於我們剛剛您提到的有關於假釋的條件是不是可以簡單說明一下現在的方向大概是怎麼樣的可不可以請我們那個邵家庭細節假釋的部分"},{"start":5686.699,"end":5706.907,"text":"跟委員報告假釋的部分目前我們所收集世界各國的立法例跟國內學者實務專家的分析比較法比較國內整個分析那基於兩個平衡性的立法政策第一個就是少年保護讓他在成長的過程有"},{"start":5707.307,"end":5733.356,"text":"更多的那個教育輔導但也要兼顧社會安全被害人人身的自由所以我們採了保護事件我們採保護事件觀察街城市的一年觀察 二年觀察 三年觀察那如果觀察的結果它聲音完畢 觀察一年 觀察二年 三年如果沒有再觸法那麼我們就市委會宣告"},{"start":5734.296,"end":5751.339,"text":"對他是一個獎勵一個鼓勵促進他繼續健康的成長但我們到21歲一定把這個紀錄 塗銷掉第二個是那個少年刑事案件因為他對我國設計室五年以上逆送檢察官起訴那這個是重罪"},{"start":5751.9,"end":5769.473,"text":"那麼觸犯這些的我們就分兩類如果是移送檢察官而判處徒刑是宣告刑五年以下的我們觀察三年觀察完畢那麼執行完畢觀察三年觀察完畢這個觀察的過程我們有很多的相關的註記"},{"start":5771.554,"end":5785.233,"text":"那我先簡單確認一件事情啦就是說我們現在的您剛講的這些不管是假釋的門檻啦或者是說審查的條件等等的然後觀察的時間等等的是不是有沒有高於或是等於我們現在承認犯罪的標準呢"},{"start":5786.653,"end":5802.615,"text":"沒有 絕對沒有那是不是跟廳長就約時間來討論好不好因為這樣我怕我今天我真的時間會用掉我們再來討論因為我們沒辦法找到資料嘛那就到我辦公室討論好不好好 謝謝好 那再回來抱歉我現在邀請那個法福基金會的執行長"},{"start":5808.919,"end":5837.502,"text":"好 那就是說關於就是有關於法服的一個品質的管理還有退場的機制想要來跟執行長來做討論就是說其實我們每一年的法服大概有20萬件所以這個受理法服的案件其實每一年都是差不多這個數件那我們全國擔任法服的律師大概有4889人那所以說其實有這麼多人在使用那這個品質的控管也就非常的重要但是我們也發現一些聘管"},{"start":5838.783,"end":5850.75,"text":"法服現在的確有一些品質控管的措施例如說專科律師的派案、院檢通報、檢案審查這些也都很重要我也都有看到法服也都有一些在接受不管是陳情"},{"start":5853.712,"end":5876.389,"text":"但是我看到就是說我們的願檢通報機制是失靈的我們每一年只有四件是來自於願檢通報那相對於法服自己收到的我們每一年的這個函請改善停止判案的這個次數都遠遠比我們剛剛講的願檢通報機制要來得多所以我想要請教一下這個可能是秘書長可能也要一起來就是說"},{"start":5878.188,"end":5902.607,"text":"就是說到底為什麼院檢通報這麼的低啊因為坦白說我們的司法院或者是現場應該是更能夠去感受到因為陳情人我看到他們講的這個案件有例如說沒有提出書狀的或是書狀過於簡單甚至是沒有實質辯護的所以這些樣態其實我們的法官應該都是在現場是可以看到的但是為什麼我們竟然有這麼少"},{"start":5905.97,"end":5922.423,"text":"107年建立這個制度到114年到現在,負面只有44件,等於一年不到6件,原因是什麼?如果在法院法官發現這種狀況,大概直接就送律程,不會再送通報法服去處理"},{"start":5925.154,"end":5942.122,"text":"所以這是機制上面院檢通報就是說我們法官他可以直接所以你們不走院檢通報嘛對不對我們就不走院檢通報我們就直接送綠城會去所以那我先問一下綠城會就是這裡面的數字現在這張表裡面的綠城會裡面就也有你們所送來的數字嗎沒有所以你們綠城會的數字可不可以"},{"start":5943.823,"end":5970.219,"text":"那你們可以把你們這個這五年來的數字再提供給我們好不好好那我想就是說因為其實現在呢我們的確有看到很多的這個狀態啦就是說受輔助人的一個申訴啦他們覺得其實不是很理想好所以我們是不是可以就是法輔基金會這邊是不是有更好的一個退場機制然後以及我們願檢通報的部分你是不是可以簡單說明一下為什麼使用率這麼低"},{"start":5970.839,"end":5986.036,"text":"跟委員報告一下第一個是院檢通報因為它是正式的轉介單但是其實我們各分會跟法院都有溝通的管道所以有些時候法院跟法官這裡是直接反映給我們分會去啟動申訴調查不一定是走制式的轉介單這是第一個跟委員說明的"},{"start":5986.937,"end":6002.346,"text":"第二個是這幾年其實我們針對逐案都會請輔助律師承辦他辦理的相關的資料由同仁審核有沒有違反律師法律師倫理規範跟輔助律師的殷勤注意事項那如果這個部分律師沒有辦法提出正當的理由包含沒月卷沒賺狀沒開庭我們都會去送我們的評鑑委員會去做審查"},{"start":6006.829,"end":6026.378,"text":"所以委員這邊可以看到是近年來我們不管是督促改善或是停止派案甚至這一個部分去做這個函請相關改善這個部分的案件其實都是維持在一定的比例這個部分再跟委員說明好那我想問一下就是說看起來我們是有個機制在處理這些不適應律師嘛那我們移送律師懲戒委員會有多少的律師會退場呢"},{"start":6028.049,"end":6052.176,"text":"我們這幾年有多少律師退場的只要有罹送律師懲戒委員會我們就同時前面委員看到這個表單前面有一個解除法律輔助工作所以我們不以律師懲戒委員會的最終決定來判斷他要不要解除在法輔的律懲會這邊就會去做解除成立委員這邊的表單我們在解除法律輔助工作這幾年的數字都在上面然後114年目前為止是五位然後113年是十位這樣子"},{"start":6052.964,"end":6073.853,"text":"好 那我想請問一下 就是那您針對我們現在的因為這看起來 我不太確定說是我剛剛聽起來就是有一種就是神情人來講嘛一個是你們自己發現不管是司法院也好或是你們自己發現嘛那你覺得現在這個因為也有人說他們等一個法服案件要等非常非常久那這到底要如何來解決這樣子的問題呢 你的想法是什麼是"},{"start":6074.113,"end":6099.188,"text":"那我們這邊有在跟司法院這邊一起在討論說第一個是律師加入法輔以後的輪派這個部分要怎麼樣更電子化這是第一個部分要去做處理第二個部分是我們也希望讓各界了解每個輔助律師他都有他自己接案的傾向跟嗜好所以針對接案比較高的律師他的原因是什麼為什麼有些律師分會在判案上面會比較遲疑我們把這些理由去做一些相關的整理來跟社會大眾這裡做說明"},{"start":6100.369,"end":6102.671,"text":"謝謝張雅玲委員的詢答 接下來請沈發惠委員來做詢答"},{"start":6131.782,"end":6135.805,"text":"主席我們請秘書長請高秘書長秘書長早我想今天我們是針對我們今年度115年度的中央政府總預算有關司法院的部跟所屬的主管機關的預算的審查詢答"},{"start":6161.155,"end":6169.213,"text":"那我這個這個在審查預算的這個之前齁我今天來關心一個議題就是我們有關於這個"},{"start":6171.325,"end":6195.648,"text":"我這裡有一個新聞這個新聞是我只是舉其中一例在今年1月12日的有關於這個目前書記官的缺額的問題書記官的壓力工作壓力跟缺額的問題這個不只是這個新聞這幾乎每個月都有這個書記官這個目前的這個工作狀況跟他們缺額的這些相關新聞那這個去年"},{"start":6197.649,"end":6220.061,"text":"以新北地院去年為例缺額高達七十一人七十一人最後只有六個人填選最後只有兩個人到法官學院報到最後這兩個人也沒去報到我們這個缺額七十一人最後增補是零這個狀況當然"},{"start":6226.594,"end":6244.918,"text":"因為缺額這麼多 沒有新的人補原來的書記官就變成要去負擔更多的工作有的人一人兼兩股這樣子來做就造成離職率的提高可能面臨這整個是所謂斷崖式的危機"},{"start":6249.399,"end":6253.083,"text":"這個有關於相關的書記官的這些問題這個確實無論是在基層書記官或是在我們輿論界確實是現在大家所關注的一個重點那我們從這個數據來看目前這個基層書記官他的這些人力"},{"start":6270.814,"end":6280.905,"text":"我這邊的統計從大概一直到從111年開始到今年就開始一直不斷的下降了之前都有提升111年之後111年到112年減少37人到113年又減少42人這樣子的"},{"start":6290.481,"end":6296.99,"text":"這個我還是以這個新北地方法院為例這個地方法院實際上他的書記官這個有196人但是他這個在113年他所受理的案件"},{"start":6307.648,"end":6330.481,"text":"25萬9千件將近26萬件的案件平均一個書記官要面對1300件的案件這樣子的壓力實在是已經到了真的是不能不處理這樣子的問題的階段關於基層司法體系的人力缺口的改善方向"},{"start":6332.384,"end":6358.382,"text":"這個我們當然我們看到啦我們我們司法院也是像這個這個人總啦一直爭取這個預算緣額的增加那人總也確實預算緣額也有一直給你們增補啦有一直調增但是調增但是預算緣額調增預算緣額在調增但是人卻補不進來啊你那個缺額一直給你增加一直給你調升你的緣額預算緣額但是你人根本就沒有人補進來這個才是最大的問題啦"},{"start":6361.431,"end":6386.033,"text":"那所以這個而且這個行政院事實上我這邊有提這個行政院的加注意見他也說這個事實上司法人力他的這個人力的增補空間實在是很有限啦雖然他一直給你喬生但是本身這個原額的增補空間其實是有限的所以審計部他就審計部的報告他就提出說真的還是要從其他的方向來著手啦齁所以其他的方向"},{"start":6388.071,"end":6415.221,"text":"包括這些行政減量、程序分流、科技輔助、業務調整提出這些方向我想今天我就主要針對這些部分來跟秘書長來探討這個我們目前有做的我知道我們司法院有做一些努力第一個是有關於書記官的家籍有調整對不對這部分是不是請秘書長報告一下我們在今年的3月4號行政院"},{"start":6416.275,"end":6436.261,"text":"今年3月4號行政院正式核定我們調整書記官的家籍書記官家籍這次一次調整將近三成 29%這個是已經開始實施了嗎對 已經實施了3月開始大概有2000多人他們的家籍是提高了有2000多人"},{"start":6438.183,"end":6464.653,"text":"因為今天是預算省的,但是因為這個預算,我們現在在省的預算是去年編列的啦所以一定是沒有這一條預算,那我們預算呢要從哪,要從哪,由哪邊來這個對,今年省已經調了,已經領了對,因為它是人事費的部分是會,就是不是即使現在3月就開始領了對,我知道3月開始調整,但是我們的預算書是我們現在省的預算書是去年送來的對,那"},{"start":6465.543,"end":6482.059,"text":"所以我們在預算裡面沒有這一條嗎?動用預備金還是?先去調整,那增加的部分當然還沒升進來對,增加的部分你們要從哪裡投資?我們就是用自己的預算去運資去調整現有的預算,現有可以執行的預算去調整好"},{"start":6490.084,"end":6515.89,"text":"這個部分雖然調整說調整三成但其實這專家大概只有六千塊左右其實是杯水車薪但是這也是一個我們推動往正面方向推動的一個跨出的一小步但是問題還是沒有辦法解決因為他調整的聽起來三成好像很多但其實就是一千多塊"},{"start":6518.886,"end":6531.245,"text":"不是六千塊,是一千多塊?不是,它是總額,可是新增一千多塊新增一千多塊不是增加六千多塊所以這個條幅實在很小,無助於解決現在目前書記官人力缺額的問題"},{"start":6534.717,"end":6549.545,"text":"所以我知道我們有另外一個最重要的部分就是我們要推動這個刑事訴訟法的修法刑事訴訟法修法這個部分我看我們在上個月4月23號我們司法院院會已經通過"},{"start":6550.706,"end":6569.161,"text":"對不對 司法院願意通過這個刑事修法修法現在已經送行政院會嫌了嗎現在送行政院會嫌了我希望這個法案行政院會嫌行政院會嫌回覆之後我們能夠盡快的收到立法院來盡快的來修啦但是我看這次但是這次修法裡面大概有幾個重要的問題要跟這個秘書長來探討啦"},{"start":6571.283,"end":6578.131,"text":"這個整個刑事做法修法要減輕書記官工作負荷的部分我看是四個大重點第一個是有關於檢視審判程序跟協商制度的適用範圍要擴大讓他們去減低書記官的工作第二個就是"},{"start":6590.346,"end":6611.364,"text":"擴大有罪判決跟簡化記載的適用範圍這是第二個重點第三個就是關於在被拘束的被告我們檢視審判程序的一部或全部我們提升他的程序效率這是第三個部分所以我們修正條文很多但是這裡我個人最關注的是有關於第44條跟46條之一的修正"},{"start":6617.109,"end":6642.823,"text":"這個部分我們先看第44條第44條你們是整個修正條文其實修改字很少就說審判其日應由書記官製作審判筆錄你們增加了應由書記官當場或以其他適當的方式製作筆錄這個我們院法律人對於以其他適當的方式這種不確定法律概念特別敏感"},{"start":6645.32,"end":6662.291,"text":"請問什麼叫做以其他適當的方式跟委員報告就說還是數據官在做可是我們可以委外委外人員製作其實現在就已經在操作另外一個現在的科技設備語音辨識的操作就讓數據官不是逐漬在這邊"},{"start":6663.792,"end":6688.444,"text":"你們在立法理由裡面有說明立法理由就是說例如為請民間廠商之記錄人員或使用科技設備技術製作之但是你們在法條文字上面用以其他適當的方式這部分這種不確定的法律概念是會未來如果說有筆錄錯誤程序爭議他的責任歸屬"},{"start":6691.861,"end":6703.494,"text":"隨著科技的進步隨著社會進步這種適當方式會變動的我們現在是舉例說明目前是這樣那往後搞不好會做得更好這個"},{"start":6706.838,"end":6726.674,"text":"未來這都一樣的問題我知道這個是正面啦我覺得這是正面的修改沒有錯他確實要解決目前蘇紀觀人力缺口的問題你又透過委外或是增加他法源這個使用科技方式的法源這個是正確的方向但是未來你有關於這個相關的這些這些比如說筆錄錯誤的這些相關的程序爭議他的責任歸屬我覺得這個要相應的"},{"start":6734.936,"end":6756.474,"text":"相應的有關責任歸屬的部分那個筆錄錯誤在訴訟法上都有相關規定這個本來就有處理方式未來你如果說以委外的方式一樣一樣由書記官負責還是由書記官他要看這些委外筆錄你看第46條之一啦第46條之一你們修改說你們這不是修改這新增條文啦新增條文你們說這個"},{"start":6759.08,"end":6780.158,"text":"前四條所定書記官的製作、核對、整理筆錄還有簽名及其他陰性事項必要時得由其他適當之人為之並由製作筆錄者簽名這個其他適當之人你連簽名都可以由其他適當之人來"},{"start":6782.376,"end":6810.321,"text":"跟委員報告就是因應剛剛委員所提到的正職書記官不報到我們現在都是職務代理人像如果不讓職務代理的書記官上去做筆錄的話真的會如委員所說的一位書記官搞不好會配到四股的法官要上庭開庭其實這個是解決目前最好的方式你們事實上不管你們未來是用委外啦外包這些制度彈性來做啦"},{"start":6812.322,"end":6819.205,"text":"最後去承接應該有的司法專業人力的負責的還是我們司法體制裡面的這些人員嘛那這個修法我這個調其實我們現在我現在這裡有秀一個我這個判決書是從這個司法院這個法學資料檢索系統這個搜尋下來的現在我們就有所謂約顧書記官"},{"start":6841.639,"end":6848.929,"text":"簽名這樣的方式 約顧書記官是什麼職務代理人職務代理人 他不是書記官嗎"},{"start":6850.137,"end":6863.086,"text":"就是書記官的職務代理人約顧書記官是職務代理人喔對他就用約顧方式進來所以寫約顧書記官用約顧方式喔所以他還是書記官就對了對 他書記官的職務代理人我想說這個約顧書記官為什麼什麼時候跑出約顧書記官這樣子的名字名稱的問題 他就是書記官他是書記官 對但是我們用約顧方式讓原本本來就是書記官的來做這個約顧書記官"},{"start":6880.357,"end":6907.083,"text":"這部分我基本上是肯定我們刑事訴訟法的修法但我另外有一個小問題就是說那我們民事訴訟法的相關的相關的這些筆錄製作的這些會有這些相應條文我們民事訴訟法也要做修正嗎對我們我有提醒民事廳我們要往這邊走因為因為你書記官在這個民事訴訟所以我看到刑事訴訟法修正案已經送行政院會議前了但是民事訴訟法相對應的條文對我們也在努力中"},{"start":6907.403,"end":6926.779,"text":"也要努力啦是是是這個修法我們希望說盡快如果行政院回函之後我們能夠盡快送到立法院來因為目前的書記官問題確實已經是非常的嚴重了非常嚴重那這個有關於這個這個相關的修法的我剛剛所提的這些我們的一些疑慮我希望在未來修法裡面的討論能夠能夠進一步來探討好不好"},{"start":6930.441,"end":6949.045,"text":"我們在預算的部分 我想我們司法院的預算的部分我也希望說我們委員會 大家能夠全力的予以支持我們剛剛都講 已經這麼缺了我希望說我們這個委員會的委員 大家能夠就這個司法院的預算 給予全力的支持 以上好 謝謝委員好 謝謝審發會委員苦口婆心接下來"},{"start":6958.021,"end":6971.695,"text":"徐宇臻委員巡打之前我先介紹一下我們歡迎黃秀端教授今天出席東吳大學政治系的學生來我們司法法制委員會參訪我們也歡迎他們"},{"start":6976.277,"end":6980.781,"text":"黃教授還有幾位同學你們今天來是很幸運今天是我們司法法治委員會比較正常的開會就比較正常因為今天來的都是一路從基層法官然後努力憑著他的學養"},{"start":6994.392,"end":7017.94,"text":"來的是有最高法院院長 最高行政法院院長 懲戒法院的院長還有法官學院院長 高等法院 高等行政法院 地方法院 大家都來所以今天是在預算詢答所以你們來看到司法法治委員會今天很正常的詢答的一個過程因為剛好也碰到預算來 接下來我們有請最專業的徐宇珍 徐委員來做詢答"},{"start":7026.271,"end":7030.315,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請司法院高祕書長請高祕書長祕書長好 祕書長今天想要請教您的是有關法律輔助方面的問題因為法輔的這個本意就是要讓那些沒有經濟能力的人跟需要受到保護的人不會因為他沒有這個"},{"start":7051.431,"end":7075.713,"text":"因為貧窮而失去訴訟這個權利而成立的那現在呢我們看到的就是說以一百一十五年度的預算我們可以看到以月入收入來說十六億六千三百八十一萬一千元包括捐贈補助收入就是政府的捐助收入大概就十四億四千一百一十六萬六千元那再加上這個一些委辦的計畫的話"},{"start":7076.874,"end":7098.652,"text":"大概佔收入的總額大概都在這個九成六以上啦那也就是說當法服的資源高度仰賴政府的預算所以司法院對法服的這個誰可以用誰不能用應該要有更高的一個把關的一個責任喔那請問一下針對這個部分秘書長認為目前法服中心有做到嗎"},{"start":7099.855,"end":7116.185,"text":"就法院對於我們司法院在監管這個法服基金會我們從去年度開始是強力監管對於他每一筆的費用的支出我們都會去了解是從今年度去年度就開始就114年度開始"},{"start":7119.988,"end":7127.114,"text":"對 就是對每一筆預算都非常的重視他們的支出然後這個結餘我們都逐筆在這個督導的"},{"start":7132.004,"end":7144.247,"text":"我們可以看到行政院對於你們115年度司法概算就明確的指出104年到113年度法輔準與輔助的一般案件由39,026件增加到55,667件無需審查經濟能力的案件有55.1增加到74.8"},{"start":7156.31,"end":7176.708,"text":"這還只是到113年喔如果到114年可能還不止所以呢也提醒可能會排擠真正經濟弱勢者那請問一下秘書長七成以上不用審查經濟能力這樣還叫做精準的輔助嗎這是行政院對你們的這個報告 概算所提醒的部分"},{"start":7177.669,"end":7197.924,"text":"跟委員報告第一個強制辯護就要如果沒有資歷就是法服另外一個就是原住民另外一個就是身心障礙這個部分就是沒有審查他的那個經濟能力這個就一定要這個請法服來協助所以現在就已經這個大概高達七成以上對不對"},{"start":7198.564,"end":7217.415,"text":"非常高的我相信有到七成跟委員報告在這些強制辯護案件裡面原住民跟身心障礙者也高達七成以上所以雖然在行政院主席處認為這些案件是不審查之例但是法輔助這一些當事人多數都有弱勢的處境這個部分跟委員說明"},{"start":7218.095,"end":7226.06,"text":"但是呢我們現在看到的就是針對這個法服輔助的詐欺相關的案件也從108年的4450件上升到113年度的8429件這直到這個113年度呢就增加的增幅高達89.42%那剛剛我聽到秘書長的報告就是那個執行長的報告你有講到"},{"start":7240.128,"end":7242.269,"text":"因為打詐條例把整個法定型提高就進入強制辯護"},{"start":7263.336,"end":7267.678,"text":"是因為這個原因他強制辯護案件請問一下我剛剛的問題是針對這樣的一個狀況因為事實上大家都沒有辦法理解詐騙現在這麼猖獗這麼橫行然後呢但是我們大部分的法律服務的資源卻都用在詐欺的加害者上那剛剛您提到的這因為現在的法院就是要強制辯護"},{"start":7286.967,"end":7313.989,"text":"難道司法院認為就應該因為這個法院的關係就繼續這樣做下去而沒有檢討他是不是應該要做一些修正呢那委員這邊容我說明法服非常關心這樣的現象所以我們有做法服輔助被告的分析在這一些詐欺被告裡面其實包含八成以上都是身心障礙者跟原住民包含剛剛委員這邊質詢的少年所以其實他們這邊裡面很多本身也是詐欺的受害者"},{"start":7314.349,"end":7333.572,"text":"就換言之他們是人頭賬戶的受害者或是今天受到一些利誘去當車手的狀況所以在法律因為規定是強制辯護案件之下所以我們有提供律師的協助但是律師的協助這件事情也是針對社會的弱勢被這些詐欺集團剝削甚至去擔任車手這一個部分去維護他們法律上的利益"},{"start":7334.053,"end":7359.614,"text":"但是我們可以看到這個審計部的評估報告最後他有指出喔他說實務上雖然有這樣子的一個狀況但是呢也發生了很多就是詐欺相關輔助案件被告仍有相當的一個經濟能力卻因為喔因為是法輔就是強制辯護你就已經指派律師給我所以我也不願意自廢嘛請律師那造成這樣的資源排擠請問秘書長就司法院是不是支持喔應該要建立"},{"start":7360.154,"end":7381.806,"text":"排富的一個機制事後追償的一個機制或至少對於詐欺洗錢等特定案件要重新檢討無需審查經濟能力這樣的一個適用範圍這個我們一定會研究當然要把國家資源用在最該用的部分可是跟委員報告老實說強制變換案件尤其是車手大部分都是落實的"},{"start":7382.626,"end":7399.521,"text":"她會當車手其實大部分都弱勢那針對這個部分呢司法院是不是也應該有一套機制看怎麼樣來去協助這些經濟弱勢的少年不要被受到這個詐騙集團的引誘而去犯案這也是應該都要宣導的部分因為不能說因為他們是經濟弱勢然後咧他們被騙了他們也是"},{"start":7405.025,"end":7433.804,"text":"經濟弱勢而去變當車手所以呢我們提供法律的輔助這個都是倒因為果啦我覺得應該是要針對這個部分怎麼樣來去協助他們不要再受到這樣子的詐騙性的誘惑提高他們的一個法律知識或者是說提高他們這樣子一個市詐的能力應該才是重點而不是就針對這個部分說好他已經犯罪了我提供他的這個法律輔助這個就是我們邵氏法必須跟社政社福單位共同來努力的另外一個區塊"},{"start":7435.065,"end":7459.785,"text":"所以針對這個部分接下來我要請教這個秘務長的也就是少年司法這個部分我們可以看到依照這個司法的這個部分我們現在其實近年來因為剛剛講到不管是詐騙集團、暴力之士還有幫派吸收少年的案件層出不窮所以我們現在我知道這個我們司法院有一個少年保護管束的風險管理機制"},{"start":7461.847,"end":7485.757,"text":"那因為這個預算其實已經編列好多年了那我們可以看到依司法院的統計少年犯的詐欺罪跟防礙秩序罪的合計人數從103年度的297人上升到113年度的3220人增幅高達9.84倍那暫刑事被告跟交付保護管署的總人數比例也從"},{"start":7487.557,"end":7511.946,"text":"2.44%到30.33%這還只是到113年喔如果到114年其實我相信的這個數據會更高那已經不是單純的一個少年偏差的一個行為喔而是詐騙集團、暴力支持跟犯罪組織向下去吸收我們少年的警訊那司法院是您認為有沒有針對少年司法其實它已經面臨一個結構性的失守呢"},{"start":7512.912,"end":7537.029,"text":"所以剛跟委員報告如果在保護世界我們要盡量去幫助少年那對於這個刑事案件部分就如同外界所說的我們是不是在這個前漢突囂在假釋這一塊沒有做好而讓這個少年很容易被引誘去這也是我們在要修法去改進的部分"},{"start":7537.7,"end":7565.208,"text":"所以針對我們這個風險少年保護管束風險管理機制到底有達到什麼樣的成效因為今年115年度這個部分又編列了6502萬8千包括相關的費用那請問一下這筆經費最後會產生什麼樣的成果那再販率會降低多少失聯率會降低多少復學就學穩定追蹤的比例會提高多少"},{"start":7566.6,"end":7582.534,"text":"跟委員我沒辦法給委員確確數字但那是我們努力方向因為關於少年曝洩還有少年在保護事件怎麼回歸社會這是需要跟社政社福教育共同來努力"},{"start":7584.055,"end":7609.009,"text":"我們既然編列了一個計劃尤其是一個多年期的計劃其實應該是你們要有一個整體性的長期的規劃而不是說我沒有辦法回答你這相關的如果編了一個計劃然後你都完全沒有去針對它的再分率到底降低失聯率會降低多少有什麼樣的績效出來那只是告訴我我沒有做但是呢會不會能做得到需要社會大眾大家共同來支持的話那請問一下編列這個長期計劃的意義是什麼"},{"start":7611.69,"end":7627.504,"text":"我們在審查這筆預算的時候我們要怎麼能夠這個給司法院這筆經費呢我剛剛說我沒辦法回答其實前面是都有的只是說我們對於前面都有是不是也請這個提供給我們委員會他詳細數字我請我們廳長來跟您報告"},{"start":7629.826,"end":7656.602,"text":"向委員報告有關高風險保護管署少年的篩選總平均在114年篩選出6621人次佔所有保護管署的8.35%成效率每個月降低風險有36人升高風險有12人都送港化教育隔離這個佔比例多少"},{"start":7658.584,"end":7679.185,"text":"你剛講的是人數 但佔的比例是多少是 如果是這個成效剛剛我說 篩出來的比例是8.35%有高風險那麼成效 因為從那個6千多人因為你剛剛講一個是30幾人一個36人 一個是7人每個月36人對 那到底比例數多少我覺得這個你們應該還是有個統計"},{"start":7682.227,"end":7703.063,"text":"統計數據是只有百分之一點多啦還不高啦但至少我們維持維持沒有再增加高風險的高達百分之六十維持篩出來以後加以密集輔導增加人力密集輔導那麼我們增加人力的心理師社公司等有四十二人"},{"start":7704.203,"end":7721.03,"text":"其實我想今天本席特別提出來這個少年司法的相關的問題其實就是要去凸顯啦現在少年這個犯罪案的這個比例越來越高那整個是整個結構性的問題那我想司法院也有這個意識到這樣的一個問題所以才會有一個這樣長期的計畫但是我覺得還缺乏就是針對這個計畫你們應該要有怎麼樣的一個這個KPI怎麼樣的一個績效的一個"},{"start":7731.614,"end":7751.244,"text":"一個訂定讓我們這個計畫事實上是有目標可追尋的否則的話就是說我們有做了然後可是可能跟以前一樣可能跟差不多我覺得這樣的一個方式的話事實上就我們在審查預算來看的話我們需要的是更明確的一個這樣的一個你們未來希望能夠達成的"},{"start":7752.384,"end":7766.47,"text":"重點是真正能夠幫助這些少年不要在這個司法的體系當中會犯罪我們希望是他們能夠真正的改善犯罪率針對這個部分的話這筆預算我們才有辦法通過"},{"start":7770.051,"end":7788.562,"text":"那所以這個部分還是希望說司法院在做相關的預算的時候應該是要把這個目標能夠明確而不是只是事辦計畫那這個而且一個少年少年是國家未來的一個基礎一個棟樑那如果說我們少年沒有保護好的話其實對我們國家未來也是很大的一個問題"},{"start":7789.042,"end":7813.473,"text":"我跟委員簡單回覆一下我們從今年起就有一個高風險估量表就如同委員所說的我們會設定一個目標來就我們整個預算希望用我們所有的力量能夠達成什麼就從我們這個我們今年8月就會全國來施行對於這個高風險估量表來協助少年回歸社會"},{"start":7814.013,"end":7819.834,"text":"好,所以我想我們要救孩子要有方法而不是只是編列預算是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是是"},{"start":7841.667,"end":7844.854,"text":"感謝昭偉有請那個秘書長高秘書長"},{"start":7854.222,"end":7875.098,"text":"秘書長好今天我想要針對刑法的妨害性自主罪章跟您討論這邊這個新聞不知道秘書長有沒有看到主要是在講有一個今年三月的新聞高中女生她跟她的家屬質疑她酒醉後被二度性侵"},{"start":7875.878,"end":7885.189,"text":"可是根據新聞報導檢方以他這位高中女生為求救沒有外傷那就是不起訴兩個男子那想請問高秘書長你認為就是意識不清卻被認定是合一性交這樣合理嗎"},{"start":7895.22,"end":7908.714,"text":"我想這個應該是法官在認定整個這個事實的部分而且當時是檢察官的應該講檢察官他那邊他的認定"},{"start":7910.152,"end":7928.934,"text":"所以是用法律認定的你認為是檢察官的認定有問題是這樣嗎當初是那個不起訴嘛所以是檢察官那邊的問題檢察官以為求救沒有外傷就是認定就是不成立不起訴兩個男子"},{"start":7930.175,"end":7947.752,"text":"那檢察官為什麼有這個空間可以認定未求救沒有外傷呢明明已經喝醉了喝醉的人如何求救喝醉的人如何抗拒啊跟委員報告因為這是個案而且整個這個事情這只是個案"},{"start":7950.05,"end":7959.961,"text":"這當然是個案,可是這個個案不是只有一件喔可是我能夠回應的就是說檢察官這樣認定,我只能說他是依照他"},{"start":7961.072,"end":7988.691,"text":"各案的這個證據資料一個喝醉的人還是要找證據說他有求救跟有抗拒你不覺得這個法律的要件非常的荒謬不合理嗎一個已經喝醉的人而且根據相關的資訊他是喝到爛醉被攙扶然後上計程車這樣的人我們如何找證據說他有抗拒啊有求救啊"},{"start":7989.472,"end":8008.97,"text":"所以你認為是證據不足?沒有,那我是必須說,這個事實還會可能構成所以要成立一定要找到證據才有抗拒嗎?他可能會成立其他趁機性交或其他的性侵害犯罪的"},{"start":8011.055,"end":8037.689,"text":"可能性只是沒有這一條而已那這個就回到我們關於刑法裡面關於妨礙性自主的定義了那我想講的事情現在的教養趨勢秘書長你應該知道嘛我們會教育小孩說對方問你可以跟你一起玩嗎你要找人家玩要得到他的同意可以坐你旁邊嗎可以借你的玩具嗎都要得到對方的同意"},{"start":8038.749,"end":8053.999,"text":"衛福部的社家屬性別平等教育材料2020年還說我說可以才可以日常大小事都需要徵詢對方同意為什麼信不用就定義上不需要得到對方的同意呢"},{"start":8054.719,"end":8071.758,"text":"您沒有覺得這個非常的奇怪這個您應該了解現在刑法的妨礙性自主是1999年修正過去的舊刑法過去是已不能抗拒現在定義為違反其意願"},{"start":8072.899,"end":8088.659,"text":"可是我要引用陳昭如台大法律系的法學教授2010年已經16年前了在司法改革雜誌上他就寫到說法官在認定什麼叫做違反當事人意願的時候因為過去有這個不能抗拒的幽靈"},{"start":8089.62,"end":8105.948,"text":"所以著重於當事人是否有機會抵抗而不抵抗就像你剛剛在講的找抵抗的證據所以曾經有最高法院質疑女童在性侵三歲的女童案中說她被插入之後哭喊喊疼痛不要的證詞與驗傷單"},{"start":8108.189,"end":8122.868,"text":"不足以證明違反被害人意願後來還有六歲童高雄地方法院的法官還認為說證人論述假女就是那個六歲女童並無抗拒當然司法院跟你講的很像"},{"start":8123.849,"end":8144.448,"text":"你們認為這是法條的解釋的問題那所以用年齡來一刀切幾歲以下可是我們要講的是幾歲以上也不代表就是違反其意願可以被解釋成有沒有機會抵抗而不抵抗那我要跟你講喔這個都已經是十幾年來婦女團體一直在倡議"},{"start":8147.33,"end":8174.012,"text":"性自主應該要以有沒有同意作為定義那剛剛是婦女新知基金會現代婦女新知基金會2017年也開記者會說沒有同意就是性侵然後立新基金會幾年前2018年也已經是8年前了辦理國際研討會希望能夠在台灣立法修正以積極同意的模式"},{"start":8174.977,"end":8189.365,"text":"那不只是台灣的婦女團體國際也都從丹麥2020年就修改了那過去是只有在暴力脅迫下那現在要改成只要欠缺同意就是性侵害"},{"start":8190.265,"end":8208.845,"text":"法國在去年10月也通過未經同意的性行為就是性侵同意必須是自由給予知情具體事前可以撤回而且不能夠以沉默或者是像剛剛喝醉酒這個沒有反應就推定為同意"},{"start":8210.117,"end":8236.106,"text":"那再給您一個最新的訊息今天是五月四月三十號兩天前歐洲議會通過正式要求歐盟委員會提出以同意為基礎的強暴法律定義就是除了剛剛丹麥等等這些國家都必須要以同意那他們還在提案的過程中提到法國的女性吉塞爾"},{"start":8236.866,"end":8251.449,"text":"他的先生對他下藥那後來呢又找了多名男性在他昏迷的情況下對他性侵的故事來說明當事人未同意那請問秘書長有聽過這個法國女性吉塞爾的故事嗎"},{"start":8253.722,"end":8273.042,"text":"我印象中好像在網路上有看過這是很大的國際新聞因為這個女性就是在多年後才知道這件事情這個男性後來已經被判刑那我要講的這邊是歐洲的例子可是日本呢2023年也比我們早更擴大性犯罪的構成"},{"start":8273.703,"end":8292.88,"text":"他具體爭略不同意他沒有直接是積極同意可是不同意的要件變嚴了除了服用酒精藥物都算是沒有不同意要件還有一個沒有給予表示不同意想法的時間都算喔連他們都擴大性犯罪構成要件"},{"start":8293.621,"end":8320.907,"text":"所以呢從1999年我們修正刑法到現在已經27年了那這麼多的國際例子跟整個大家對這樣子性侵害的一個反省那真的應該要聚焦在有沒有取得同意而且有一個很重要的差異是前者把責任讓受害者被害人來承擔必須要提出證據他有沒有抗拒"},{"start":8321.987,"end":8336.768,"text":"後者是所謂的行為人應該要提出證據他是不是有取得同意實務上在場很多法官法院的院長我也要肯定一下最高法院2021年在解釋上"},{"start":8337.549,"end":8366.526,"text":"就有出現必須要得到他人民事同意才可以否則就是違反意願的性侵害犯罪行為就跟剛剛那個檢察官是不一樣的那很幸運的有194件的判決的法官原以這個觀點所以我覺得最高法院是有這個性別意識那可是還是有檢察官像剛剛給您的例子明明酒醉了卻說沒有抗拒然後不起訴"},{"start":8367.506,"end":8383.15,"text":"所以是不是不要讓大家自由的來詮釋那這真的是嚴重的人權問題我們辦公室去問了衛福部這10年來有超過11件11萬件的通報性侵害的案件"},{"start":8384.051,"end":8401.238,"text":"而且我們認為還有黑數因為很多人其實不一定會願意通報尤其是現在都是以熟視性侵為主那司法院可不可以開始來研議了跟委員報告謝謝委員剛所提到的最高法院的見解其實"},{"start":8402.358,"end":8424.875,"text":"就法院端來講是有朝這邊在努力可是必須跟委員報告刑法實體法是法務部的那個全責法所以我們要我相信法務部也會往這方面來研議那我們要尊重這個法務部事實來提供這個修正策劃我想這個是我們必須走的方向"},{"start":8425.655,"end":8442.709,"text":"好 謝謝秘書長肯定這是我們必須要走的方向那我們知道法務部其實已經同意要去研議了我前幾天質詢但是這過程中最後都會彙你們司法院的意見那你們是不是也超前部署也來研議一下好不好是"},{"start":8443.65,"end":8461.739,"text":"好 可以那就請那個司法院可以積極的研議刑法妨礙性自主罪章採積極同意定義之可行性好不好等到法務部ready的時候準備好的時候那一定會問你們司法院的意見好 那感謝那我之後再追蹤謝謝感謝昭緯 謝謝"},{"start":8467.828,"end":8475.131,"text":"謝謝范雲委員那接下來請這少年共有的洪孟楷委員來做詢問范雲委員感謝我們最接地氣的朝委謝謝來 請我們司法院秘書長請高秘書長"},{"start":8495.979,"end":8519.127,"text":"好 秘書長好秘書長 我想本席也注意到說我們現在司法院是代理院長的狀況那如果說算到從113年11月1號開始的話到現在已經超過一年半左右時間了那到底現在的這個有人講說這是政治僵局啊但是本席更希望能夠跳脫政黨的色彩而是回歸到制度面制度面現在是"},{"start":8520.908,"end":8543.283,"text":"總統來提出提名 受立法院的同意 到最後能夠來說認命嘛 對不對好 那過去兩次 這個立法院當然有提出人選但立法院到最後沒有同意 可是到現在就沒有再提名人選了司法院院長跟其他的機關不一樣 像譬如說NCCNCC委員今天早上我也寫了"},{"start":8543.743,"end":8570.455,"text":"他照理講他是要在三個月內提出他的人選的名單但是依法來講7月31號到期的是4月30號要提出名單但4月30號到了行政院並沒有提出名單也因此行政院已經公然違法了可是在這個過程裡面我想還是要請教就是說對於現在一年半的一個代理院長來講的話人事案一直沒有辦法通過社會溝通、朝野溝通或者是人選的一個部分"},{"start":8571.135,"end":8594.457,"text":"我們讓我們的司法院持續處於代理的狀況您覺得對於業務的推動有沒有影響真的委員問到的就是總統的職權我只能尊重對業務推動有沒有影響一年半的代理我們個廳處就我們這個司法從司法改革以來各項"},{"start":8595.905,"end":8610.432,"text":"列明、李明的業務是繼續在做我肯定我們持續在做就是說在有限的情況下你持續推動這本席給予肯定但我想問的是代理一年半對業務有沒有影響"},{"start":8611.052,"end":8631.403,"text":"所以我剛回應委員所以沒有影響所以繼續代理下去沒有關係當然持續代理有沒有關係這是另外一個問題這就是本席的問題不是另外一個問題這是本席的問題這是一個事實問題可是所以有沒有影響可是對我們業務的推展來講都沒有影響所以繼續代理沒有問題我不能把這個話等"},{"start":8635.88,"end":8658.71,"text":"這是很基礎ABC我看很多院長都在笑了連那麼清楚明白的ABC我現在沒有講司法院的責任因為總統提名嘛任何人都不是總統嘛只有總統有權提名嘛但他一直沒有送名單進來立法院沒有辦法同意嘛那好不好的名單社會自有公平但本席現在要問的是他現在沒有再送名單來了"},{"start":8660.117,"end":8669.462,"text":"那已經已經過了一年半的時間那我們要講的是說不能因為前兩次否決然後懸缺在那邊吧問總統所以總統他"},{"start":8675.078,"end":8699.329,"text":"他不作為然後我們司法院大家也只能就是沒辦法是不是所以司法院沒辦法剛剛秘書長講的大白話就總統現在在推廣國防外交我們也予以尊重因為這是我們中華民國元首應該要做的事情但重點是總統有沒有把心思放在這邊來我請教那這樣子能不能提出長期代理"},{"start":8700.543,"end":8724.299,"text":"院長以及大法官缺額對於司法行政以及憲法法庭運作的影響說明能不能在一個月內提出給本席做參考好我們回去研究可以一個月內可以提出至少你讓我們知道讓總統也知道說你的職責所在中華民國元首你就有職責你依法應該要提名讓立法院來做同意來另外啊"},{"start":8724.997,"end":8730.009,"text":"民主黨本席也想提啊因為今天其實很多的我們的院長大家都在這邊了"},{"start":8731.38,"end":8757.222,"text":"我其實提出來就是說我希望能夠嚇阻犯罪因為我相信今天早上很多人都已經講過詐欺的一個部分你也是中華民國國民所以我相信你跟本席一樣也都深惡痛絕詐欺的一個部分那所以本席才講是說有沒有可能我們也參考其他國家來去做思考到底台灣能不能徵涉比較積極的刑責譬如說邊行如同新加坡一樣讓"},{"start":8759.283,"end":8784.031,"text":"嚇阻犯罪來對付不管是詐欺性侵或者是虐童等相關的一個犯罪我重點不是要編刑我重點不是說一定要編誰因為那是心理變態我不是但本席要的是嚇阻犯罪那如果說未來這個公投能夠過其實本席想利用這個機會也跟我們所有我敬重的院長們"},{"start":8785.191,"end":8812.692,"text":"好好溝通因為我知道我提出這樣的一個想法的時候也許有一些法律界的朋友會講是說這是開人權倒車但我們要的是什麼要的是保障被害者99.9%善良一般奉公守法的民眾而本席更相信如果說偵測這樣的刑責任何人都不會惡意的來去做執行為什麼因為本席相信的是制度"},{"start":8813.613,"end":8832.561,"text":"我們國家有很嚴謹的一審、二審、三審的制度如果說這個制度能夠經過我們每一個地方法院、高檔法院、最高法院的法官來做把關的話到最後這個人真的有罪應該要處什麼樣的刑責那他就是所謂的罪有應得啊"},{"start":8833.911,"end":8860.641,"text":"所以本席一直相信的是制度而不是個人我們希望是能夠有一個強而有力的工具能夠幫助中華民國來維護治安的一個部分就如同秘書長我請教您知道我們現在有判死刑嘛死刑還沒有廢嘛對不對可是我們一直講是說為什麼大家會覺得實質廢死是因為我們現在有30多名的死刑犯已經三審定讞了"},{"start":8861.735,"end":8886.621,"text":"但您知道 到目前為止還沒有執行嗎這您知道 您知道所以 如果說我們都經過一審二審最高法院定驗的死刑犯那代表是這個制度是運作正常的結果這三十幾名死刑犯他居然沒有執行那不就是行政部門在否決我們司法院的判決嗎"},{"start":8889.301,"end":8912.277,"text":"您怎麼看那當然死刑之刑是法務部的職權我們就是尊重而已我們當然希望他尊重我們的判決我們一審二審三審最高都已經判決了我相信每一個院長每一個我們的法官都在審理的過程裡面檢視所有一切的條件到最後做出了死刑的判決"},{"start":8913.663,"end":8941.417,"text":"而三十幾名的死刑犯最長的二十幾年了1999年判死刑定業到現在還沒有執行而我最近要的一個資料三十幾名死刑犯有一位離開了 過世了 為什麼自然死亡啊所以他被判處死刑之後他不是被我們中華民國法律來執行而是他關在牢裡面到時候要等他老死"},{"start":8943.254,"end":8960.388,"text":"也才會讓被害者或說讓一般的家屬會覺得是說沒有辦法接受或說一般的我們民眾沒有辦法接受就是說那這樣子形同法律無誤啊原來我們判處死刑之後要等他自然饒死然後要求神拜佛拜託上帝來執行公義"},{"start":8962.885,"end":8983.197,"text":"跟委員報告因為執行死刑是最高級他們在審視我們的這個確定判決他還有相關證據資料他還有提起非常上訴的這個職責都在他們的審訊有多少提非常上訴那在之前沒有提非常上訴的時候為什麼沒有執行"},{"start":8984.446,"end":8996.829,"text":"你這根本就是開脫我剛剛已經講了1999年有一個最長的1999年就判處就已經三審定讞了本席今天要再一次的利用這個機會來表達本席的態度"},{"start":8998.083,"end":9016.553,"text":"本席希望保障好人不要冤枉壞人但如果說今天這個壞人經過我國那麼嚴謹的一審二審三審的一個制度到最後判處應有的刑責的時候該執行就該執行所以不管是邊行不管是死刑如果說未來有可能有邊行的話"},{"start":9017.313,"end":9043.526,"text":"我也相信制度我也相信我們所有的法院法官不會濫用這樣的一個制度而如果說審視他犯的罪行真的罪大惡極應該要判處相對應的處罰的時候那也勇於來判決勇於來執行這樣才能真真正正讓我國真的是一個民主法治的國家嘛委員長你可以同意吧關於邊形就在"},{"start":9045.193,"end":9058.159,"text":"這個法治人權治安還是有高度正義所以本席現在才講不是兩個部分啦因為本席的時間已經到了但是本席只想講兩個部分第一如果說所以我們現在就公投嗎"},{"start":9059.164,"end":9080.537,"text":"政大政策創制是可以讓公民直接民主來決定那如果說真的公投可以成案讓全國國人來表達意見真的表達通過了公投之後立法院也要修法行政院法務部也要提出相關的法令可能司法院也有角色但本席要講的是現在還沒有創可是至少以死刑來講"},{"start":9082.677,"end":9111.981,"text":"我國的三省定驗制度那麼的完整已經決定了結果法務部不執行這就某種程度上是打臉司法院是認為是說你不夠嚴謹你判得好像有瑕疵所以說我才不執行然後在等待某一天來非常上訴反正就是一拖再拖然後到最後變成是說執行的人是交由上帝來決定我覺得這絕對不應該是這個樣子法務部是執行他的職權我不認為他是打臉司法院"},{"start":9113.001,"end":9133.012,"text":"民主黨要這樣子脫免治綱我也是只能笑啦但是最重要的還是我再一次強調站在這邊我尊重所有的院長我也相信我國的法律制度我國的司法體系是台灣最後一道的積糧能夠撐住這樣的積糧"},{"start":9136.354,"end":9142.379,"text":"讓好人可以在台灣生存下去讓壞人可以越來越少我想這才是我們共同的目標謝謝"},{"start":9168.597,"end":9192.959,"text":"謝謝主席有請我們司法院秘書長 高雄秘書長還有我們今天來了那麼多的院長因為剛好涉及到今年八月份整個制度的變革精神衛生法的部分所以我就挑幾個比較代表性的就是我們台北好不好台北地方法院院長還有我們台中地方法院院長高雄地方法院院長"},{"start":9194.753,"end":9222.795,"text":"高雄市高雄少佳法院好 沒關係 起來也可以 這都有需要那也不能只挑六都的啦來看看一下我們離島的我們澎湖好不好澎湖 還有 也要有偏鄉的呢屏東跟台東好不好好 澎湖 屏東 台東因為來了 讓你們沒有用武之地也不好啊走動一下也不好那因為啊 這不是跟你們開玩笑像譬如說"},{"start":9224.056,"end":9237.829,"text":"各地方法院院長還有我們司法院本席都一直要求你們到立法院來尊重我們就可以立法委員在那邊胡說八道你們也可以嘲笑我們因為你們今天算大軍壓境要展現你們的專業才對我要來請教秘書長還有各位院長就是說"},{"start":9244.334,"end":9266.363,"text":"我看今年司法院的115年年度施政計畫之一就是健全整個通譯的制度提升法庭的傳譯的品質保障聽覺跟語言障礙 語言不通人的這些訴訟權益因為本期剛好在上個禮拜針對這個議題通譯的部分剛好去請教法務部那我要請教院書長跟各位議員就是這個通譯的制度我要看"},{"start":9273.12,"end":9277.822,"text":"在法庭上如果讓被告或者去參與整個訴訟的人聽不懂這個法官就不用審了你說保障司法人權這個就是假的所以你們看到我發現你們也發現了這個問題現在我們通譯的訓練裡面大多數用上課 聽講譬如說你們以為這樣訓練會很厲害"},{"start":9297.509,"end":9299.651,"text":"我同意法官訓練的模擬法庭都有實際上的去做一個演練還有一些旁聽觀摩實習現在你跟他同意長期以來就是上上課你覺得這個制度不需要改變嗎"},{"start":9315.505,"end":9333.863,"text":"非常謝謝委員的指正這正是我們今年列入重要的這個對於特約同意重要的訓練課程一定是實務課程而不是去上法律課程而且我們對於他的檢驗我們要提高標準"},{"start":9334.824,"end":9340.129,"text":"我會請這麼多院長上來其實也是要讓大家關注這個議題聽不懂就沒有辦法公平審判他會說聽不懂 你們有多心內讓被告都在 或者說參與訴訟人在庭上沒有辦法聽懂真正表達是些什麼那另外第二個就是說語言不通的部分我看監察院的報告裡面他們也去提出他就認為"},{"start":9363.228,"end":9374.435,"text":"在於對聽不懂的人要不要讓他案件像這一些要不要修改整個刑事訴訟法讓他變成擴大強制辯護的適用的範圍我不曉得秘書長你的看法是怎麼樣其實我相信這個對於一位語言不通的重要是在同意"},{"start":9387.637,"end":9411.059,"text":"那是不是要列為強制辯護這會牽涉到整個國家資源的使用這我們會列入考量國家資源的啟用你說的是錢嘛對啊 錢的問題錢啊 錢你說沒聽到其實在立法院裡面只要不是涉及過度的政治攻防的那憲法法庭那是大家"},{"start":9411.86,"end":9437.926,"text":"政黨在那怎麼定義大家在鬥爭啊所以那個當然遷移法而動全身可是你對於各級地方法院裡面你制度的變革跟提升這其實你也不用過度去認為立法院會去做一個杯葛啦道理如果講得通的話道理如果講得通的話司法本來就是跟政治就會比較遠離的一個憲政的一個設計的一個制度"},{"start":9440.126,"end":9443.648,"text":"這個我覺得還是要有一個比較要用這個制度去做一個環境,可以去做一個提升這個部分我認為是有必要的,我不知道秘書長你怎麼看當然其實對於語言不通的,不會只有配靠"},{"start":9464.083,"end":9478.517,"text":"還有被害人還有其他相關系他必須參與訴訟的時候他就是要同意其實同意這個是我們一定要努力去達成的"},{"start":9479.037,"end":9498.201,"text":"我個人認為當然由辯護人來協助是一個好方法可是特約同意做得好的話其實是不是要強制辯護是可以的我的意思很簡單就是說把語言不通則列入強制辯護的適用範圍像譬如說我們刑事訴訟法第31條裡面你擴大強制辯護"},{"start":9502.262,"end":9523.344,"text":"99條說的被告為聽覺或語言障礙或語言不通者列入31條規定的指定公司辯護人員或律師為被告辯護人員請呈記憶就是說語言不通的人也能透過辯護人員的引介通譯資源協助溝通月卷確保他享有充分的一個防禦權這其實"},{"start":9525.667,"end":9537.503,"text":"農莊府和國際公寓裡面的一個公平審判的一個要求這個我期待啊司法院這個地方啊再去精進啦好不好那接下來秘書長你就不用說了我來選兩個先台北地院有來的嗎院長"},{"start":9540.607,"end":9554.815,"text":"雖然不理啦但是就事論事啦可以做台北地議院的議長這兩種有十八般 五一都精通精神衛生法在今年八月新制要上路啦這個制度上路"},{"start":9556.158,"end":9561.299,"text":"最主要就是說 你人跟你這組員有準備好嗎今年八月要上路嗎那我要請教問題來了第一個就是說 你們那個參選員你們準備好嗎 這個第一項法官本來是 以前是衛福部喔現在不是喔現在變成憲法第八條的時候 美索去提到的喔你現在 現在 他們都要法官保留喔你現在現行的制度 現在都要用法官"},{"start":9585.287,"end":9603.688,"text":"精神科的醫生還有病犬的代表我的問題是說你們人數夠不夠專業的背景有沒有到位你們各地的地方法院有沒有辦法去撐起這樣的一個案量為你這個修讀的議長你先說你的看法我們聽聽看好不好"},{"start":9606.372,"end":9628.437,"text":"報導委員 關於精神衛生法那個參審專家這個我們是由中央統籌辦理的所以這人員和資格是由中央我們邵家廳會統籌辦理那我們列冊我們...白衛耶 白衛要救了耶已經有了你都有啊 台北的有啊來 那個朋友 都一樣嗎都是邵家廳有處理都一樣喔"},{"start":9633.074,"end":9642.101,"text":"我的看法是這樣子,這個關鍵的一個問題就是說,租房跟人,制度的一個變革,現在也不能說未雨綢繆,你要上路,你要準備,剛好藉這個機會,這麼多的院長來做這樣的一個關切。那就是說,最關鍵的問題就是說,你們也碰到一個很大的問題,"},{"start":9654.997,"end":9667.347,"text":"你現在人到現在是要強制住院或是要社區治療或是要不處分像碰到這個社區資源如果不足那或者說沒有醫療機構來接手的話"},{"start":9669.554,"end":9685.287,"text":"你如果做花卦的心的人,後來不是把你收起來關起來,不然就把你放回去像這一些,我們跟衛福部這個,你做花卦你給我多少錢?像這不是花卦要關的人,但是又沒錢還給他算,像剛才這個議長剛才這個你們要怎麼辦?"},{"start":9691.496,"end":9704.686,"text":"委員我先因為這個整個統籌處理是由司法院少家庭來統籌處理並不是交給院長們處理沒有嘛我的重點是你的資源給的夠不夠啊對我請那個少家庭來來來來來來"},{"start":9708.29,"end":9724.218,"text":"跟召委報告這是由執法院消費大廳跟衛福部新建師來統籌目前我們辦理的結果剛剛委員的槌尋都已經定有執法規那麼如果是強制住院"},{"start":9724.878,"end":9741.279,"text":"準那麼就在原申請法院那如果是改為強制社區治療目前都定有執法規直接交由衛福部所連結好的各縣市這個衛生局直接就接手去治療"},{"start":9741.88,"end":9762.538,"text":"那如果要直接讓他就是所謂的駁回就讓他回家那麼也是由興建師他定有一個辦法就是社區觀賞員跟相關的精神衛生的相關的社工就馬上接手以防有任何的萬一"},{"start":9763.399,"end":9782.103,"text":"那周到回到社區以後就是歸屬各縣市衛生局來處理這個執法過程都訂好了那麼剛剛有關於參審員包括指定中科醫師包括這個病權代表"},{"start":9782.583,"end":9806.084,"text":"那麼這個部分也都由他們推薦完畢目前在市法院辦理教育訓練跟遴選這個月會由法官遴選委員會來遴選出三大區的這個參審員以上報告各位我的問題不在這邊啦我的問題其實是在於說各個地方法院我相信陳審法官會碰到一個問題啦你像譬如說你現在"},{"start":9808.578,"end":9829.194,"text":"你這算制度變革,算你總要把他攬起來,你知道嗎?本來跟你沒關係,本來這是未有補的,現在主導的角色現在是變硬的,變發光的,那你所以說,你這一些,你專業法官還有這些參選制度,你進來以後,參選員的來源、人數、專業背景,好,假設你都到位了,"},{"start":9830.375,"end":9850.789,"text":"問題來了,就是說各地方反而你配置省裡的一個量能上,你是不是說足以來承擔你八月份這樣的心智的一個上路?那我剛問的問題就是說,好,花刮現在開始,還有這個參選原料,現在大家去合意做出來,花刮做出來,就是說,有可能就是,就是上一半年嘛,"},{"start":9855.049,"end":9877.689,"text":"另外一項就是說 我把他送去社區的處域機構第三項就是說 你讓我讓他回去站在法官的立場 站在法官的立場如果說我們沒有跟衛福部這一些社區的處域機構你去做一個接軌去盤點好 有足夠的能量的話法官存兩條路而已第一項送便宜 第二項回家"},{"start":9878.717,"end":9900.924,"text":"我擔心的是這個喔那所以說你整個制度的一個變革以後我印度人家 人家到底有準備好嗎各個地方法院我們有沒有把這些資源給準備好你如果跟衛福部說不好你創不好學了 我跟你講你到最後那個法官你做出來的判決如果說只有兩項的話人家有社會跟你罵死 我跟你講你們到底有沒有意識到這個問題是"},{"start":9907.649,"end":9929.577,"text":"我跟召委報告剛剛的垂詢問題我們都在每個月的這個籌備會都有討論到而且設計好了那有關於剛剛所說明垂詢的問題那我們從都設計好了那6月份開始會議使工你那個替代資源不足的話本來是衛福部嘛"},{"start":9930.258,"end":9932.421,"text":"那個問題不是你地方法院的問題嘛你只要有跟衛福部說你煮完放好洗不會你這個已經制度已經產生變革了"},{"start":9941.007,"end":9961.693,"text":"有的那個衛福部已經簽約了非常多的這種所謂的精神復健相關的機構所以這些我們都會在從六月開始我們就會開始做教育訓練布達給那個所有所屬的七大法院的一個法官跟參審員來運用這些資源"},{"start":9965.334,"end":9987.253,"text":"這個其實這個問題真的不能開玩笑因為真的是制度的一個變革涉及到整個國家資源到底足不足以來來撐起這樣的一個新制的一個變革這也不是你幾大法院的問題啦這 剛才這個問題沒分六都 沒分都市 沒分偏鄉都中都會對啦"},{"start":9988.294,"end":10008.054,"text":"好不好這個部分因為時間也到了沒辦法繼續來問法輔的問題了那下一次再來請教好謝謝謝謝委員好院長就是秘書長等請回喔謝謝方瑞雄委員的質詢那我們最後給那個召委來宣布好農所好嗎"},{"start":10013.137,"end":10026.154,"text":"好 那我們所有登記發言的委員都已發言完畢 詢答結束委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關盡速送交個別委員及本會"},{"start":10028.177,"end":10053.086,"text":"委員蔡其昌 林倩琦所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報並請相關機關以書面來做答覆那剛剛也非常感謝范雲委員的代理組織那我們本次的會議我們就進行到此討論事項所列的兩案關於司法院及所屬主管收支部分等預算案報告及詢答完畢"},{"start":10053.746,"end":10073.937,"text":"均作如下決議令定期繼續審查審查會委員針對本日議程所列的討論事項之預算提案也請於5月11號就是星期一下午2點前提出預時我們就不予受理了我們現在散會謝謝大家感謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}