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彭子晨處長"},{"start":1888.017,"end":1911.944,"text":"數位資訊是謝俊科主任秘書是趙修美主任人事是黃立廷主任主計是黃信聰主任政風是康明旺主任行政院主計總處公務預算處王淺凱專務委員"},{"start":1924.525,"end":1950.274,"text":"行政院主席總署基金預算處王佩珊科長其餘列席的機關代表請參閱名單不再逐一介紹並列入公報紀錄上午會議採一併報告綜合詢答現在進行報告請國立部故宮博物院蕭忠煌院長報告"},{"start":1952.554,"end":1952.674,"text":"報告時間8分鐘"},{"start":1969.048,"end":1983.633,"text":"好 主席各位委員大家好首先就教育委員會對本院各項業務及預算的知識與指示表達誠摯謝意以下僅就114年業務推動成果165年工作重點及預算備備進行檢驗報告"},{"start":1986.214,"end":2012.89,"text":"一百一十四年業務成果百年宴慶開啟新篇章一百一十四年世宏故宮百年宴慶也是發展重要里程碑本次宴慶重要成果如下為慶祝百年宴慶出版宴時研究協助專刊等五種配合宴慶出版夾子萬年神譽千年神譽等九種圖錄推出售前宴出版品共八種辦理南北宴特展及數位展工技師檔次"},{"start":2015.997,"end":2035.073,"text":"開發暨特色文創商品暨140家廠商參與故宮品牌聯盟共同開發1,128項百年宴慶主題商品透過多種行銷管道及大型展會紅顏本宴品牌形象故宮百年宴慶去年總共參觀的人數是359萬人次"},{"start":2038.84,"end":2060.631,"text":"在114年本院國際交流成果及辦理六檔國際合作展覽、大美不言、江戶福市之美、美國大都會博物館、民俗展、抵岸等會籍各地民俗的南北運氣展出、九月份會捷克國家博物館展出、故宮百年物、百險及其故事、透過司法免扣押以最高規格展出。"},{"start":2062.165,"end":2078.994,"text":"那另外的話就是1月29號班里崔白菜歸國見面會然後宣告總共展覽參觀人數三十萬八千多人次成為捷克國家博物館史上最成功的展覽之一亦成為故宮近期指標性國際展覽成果"},{"start":2081.041,"end":2098.171,"text":"專業服務課業整合114年配合百年年輕辦理第三屆策展執行會然後透過多面向策展辦理必頌夾制萬年千年生育江湖福祉之美文士橋與等展覽呈現博物文物之美另外生化"},{"start":2099.321,"end":2118.119,"text":"跨區教育推廣辦理兒童青年推廣執行會加強博物館青年連結推動管校核心的素養與教育事務合作備忘錄辦理故宮青少年大使文化培力計畫青年大使計畫小小博物館青少年"},{"start":2118.699,"end":2144.396,"text":"培訓計畫等擴大兒童青年參與博物館配合接近辦理故宮仲夏夜故宮夜派對2025故宮親子夜等活動想開玩分享仔細推動數位典藏物開發整合數位典藏資料庫以One Data專區限制多元維度檢索平台故宮AR導覽在114年10月正式上線"},{"start":2148.092,"end":2174.787,"text":"另外,透過蘇維整合地方政府合作辦理故宮行遊、新故宮媒體展、河海行舟天明山河圖數位展、臺灣異鄉變動中臺灣的蘇維展,辦理故宮國寶出遊區計畫,提供各縣市民眾經濟力接近故宮紋路。114年,以澎湖縣政府辦理大海海獅代海上明珠,以宜蘭縣政府辦理淨水國寶故宮來源特展,"},{"start":2176.926,"end":2203.681,"text":"文創形象方面與總統、經濟部等單位跟地方政府合作臺灣精品MIT開發兼具臺灣特色產品在有送共榮文化平權方面提升指示性招待提醒提升服務品質會議故宮博文身心障礙者文化參與執行會優化本院軟硬體設施落實文化平權"},{"start":2205.276,"end":2227.73,"text":"陪伴延期持續進行無障礙系統優化進展無障礙系統辦理至上路無障礙連通道行政工程劃包為此兒童教育推廣辦理教童宿舍改建為兒童探索館可能性目前召開兩場專家會六場兒童精子設計工作坊一場探視的一個設計整管互動小會"},{"start":2229.949,"end":2246.283,"text":"另外的話,在永續發展接軌國際方面,本院以財團法人高度健康合作基金會合作簽署備忘錄,推廣本院成為國際青年來台協行外體驗的重要產物。"},{"start":2247.901,"end":2269.301,"text":"那另外的話以南伊塔辦理第一屆博物館學術中心研討會與中研院辦理百秒工作坊與英國國家學術院院辦理全球知識國際學術研討會等在永續文物保存方面以博物館典藏辦法辦理第四次典藏盤點規劃"},{"start":2271.98,"end":2282.693,"text":"直接辦理池區文物整治包裝改善北部縣區跟南部縣區持續完成RFI電文物管理系統建置並計畫導入人臉辨識系統落實作為監控"},{"start":2287.703,"end":2306.549,"text":"財新公共計畫工程方面114年完成圖書文獻大樓整建6月13號啟用第二展覽館辦理大地位名作展6月19號完成研究大樓第一線建築工程那來源部分的話顧問國保款建築計畫114年完成主體鋼構吊樁主力及樓盤角組那你以外"},{"start":2315.892,"end":2337.15,"text":"以文化藝術講述條例 辦理公共藝術計畫114年工作重點 專業服務快整合 立即專業研究基礎 召開國際策展執行會從多方面 前世級策展辦理 葉木 以馨 神獸在線 真甲前龍等展覽另外一級辦理 龍藏金會具1950新入場文物風華等展覽"},{"start":2340.925,"end":2369.061,"text":"持續辦理分年分眾教育推廣活動及辦兒童及青少年事務推廣執行會另外辦理青少年志工校園大使青少年文化推廣人才等活動配合教育部主辦國立社會教育機構及文化機構聯合行銷專案持續推動百萬鞋子郵顧工專案計畫並串聯在地文化與周邊廟宇製作導覽所策略出文化雜根"},{"start":2370.717,"end":2389.512,"text":"在开放分享方面,持续推动数位典藏文物资料开放,利用新媒体载积极平台,积极分离,打造AI智慧博物馆生态计划。优化前瞻展示科技与AI赋能,发展国际级AI科技艺术厅。"},{"start":2391.215,"end":2417.715,"text":"另外透過在地合作辦理金水鉤堡故宮蘭陽博物館特展出神入化相關事業藝術展眾神佳麟等展覽繼續參與國內外中央大型展會在友善共融方面致力提供更友善的召開深圳障礙及文化參與執行會議提升服務品質中央會議"},{"start":2419.471,"end":2444.431,"text":"持續辦理各項的展覽及開展活動在永熙花展方面持續國際製品博物館簽署合作備忘錄二月份辦理第二章國際萬象特展另外的話三月份跟德國德羅茲登藝術收藏館簽署合作備忘錄去年龍展三個月間幸運11萬人出然後"},{"start":2446.792,"end":2469.637,"text":"展覽之後,當然就是開普朗尼博物館也請指要送文物回臺,那也走訪了南部及東部各個關所,延續臺灣文化交流的一個基源。另外,普遍都持續推動典藏保存額計畫,先故宮延續各個第二期計畫的各個相工作的進行。"},{"start":2472.608,"end":2485.379,"text":"再來的話就是有關故宮的預算編列部分115年供預算編列稅數編列6億6萬4千元那114年稅務的部分稅數的部分編列29億6千564萬元"},{"start":2499.127,"end":2509.933,"text":"那另外的話基金的部分工作重點請參與在產銷營運部分的話預計融資各種文獻品投資2億4千6百4千6萬收入的話1億4千7百24萬元"},{"start":2528.769,"end":2540.595,"text":"那另外的話有關業務租赤不論如何120年業務支出編列4億3千5百73萬8千元那業務總支出相比後剩以5千6百24萬元以及結繳公庫5千5百萬元那以上報告敬請各位指示並請繼續給支持"},{"start":2557.705,"end":2579.664,"text":"好謝謝校園長機關代表報告完畢相關書面資料請各位參閱並列入公報紀錄由於議事錄之前已經宣讀完畢尚未確定現在先確定議事錄請問各位委員上次會議議事錄有無錯誤或者是遺漏好議事錄確定"},{"start":2587.934,"end":2611.649,"text":"現在進行詢答因為登記的人發言人數比較多且討論預算提案的時候還可以充分的表達意見所以每位委員出席質詢的時間是6分鐘列席委員質詢的時間為4分鐘均不再延長委員如有臨時提案請於上午10點半"},{"start":2612.745,"end":2636.744,"text":"提出並與本會委員羅志強委員質詢結束後進行詢答處理處理提案時落提案的委員及連署的委員均不在場照管理是不予處理發言登記的截止時間上午十點半首先請登記第一位的委員陳佩玉委員發言"},{"start":2643.939,"end":2651.206,"text":"主席不好意思我先確定一下今天是6沒有6加2對不對對6好收到我努力謝謝好有請院長謝謝有請院長總委員長"},{"start":2660.199,"end":2683.821,"text":"好院長那我們時間有限我會先提出過去我們辦公室研究的題目持續追蹤那如果來不及回答的就請院長之後再一併提供書面資料給我們今天要談預算我們來看一下辦公室一直持續追蹤關於故宮的文創商品Made in China的事情關鍵其實不是China而是我們之前其實收過非常多陳情相關的很多文創商品"},{"start":2684.782,"end":2696.47,"text":"其實做得非常的粗糙那當然是因為外包廠商的問題那我們當時就要求故宮說是不是要提高台灣製造的比例確實要給予故宮肯定從2023年的69%到2024年的數字已經來到76.74%也就是說故宮在面對國際旅客跟台灣旅客的時候確實對於文創商品的品質是有逐漸要求"},{"start":2707.617,"end":2726.268,"text":"我比較好奇到目前為止我們有沒有2025年的統計關於Made in Taiwan的部分怎麼說呢除了那個精品的形象之外非常重要面對國外旅客跟國際旅客那因為我們發現有一個很大的困境會不會是因為你有這個拆帳的問題我們來看一下如果是台灣製的"},{"start":2727.369,"end":2748.131,"text":"本院是55% 廠商是45%非台灣製的本院是60% 廠商是40%意思就是說其實拆帳的比例沒有差太多所以如果我是廠商的角度如果Made in China的成本比較低Made in Taiwan的成本比較高我當然就選用Made in China的部分而且如果再加上故宮沒有相關鼓勵的機制"},{"start":2749.452,"end":2778.146,"text":"所以对我来说我可能就还是选择成本低的因为在商言商所以我也很想问故公未来有没有规划相关的奖励机制鼓励厂商在做相关文创商品还有品牌授权的时候尽量可以找台湾的精品厂商因为我要说台湾目前有越来越多的年轻人他们回到自己的家乡做各式各样的创作还有制造业这些其实都是可以鼓励台湾的厂商去找这些在地厂商合作我想听听看故公这边的规划"},{"start":2779.764,"end":2795.357,"text":"故宮這邊的話基本上經過委員的提醒我們也積極鼓勵廠商在台製作所以目前來講的話114年就2025年台灣製的比例已經提高到83%"},{"start":2797.278,"end":2814.305,"text":"太好了所以從69到76到現在給我的數字是83太好了直接給予故宮肯定我們再說一次來自任何國家的製造業我們都不排斥可是當他放在故宮作為文創商品面對國際旅客的時候我們認為他精緻度一定要出來也不要糟蹋了故宮這麼"},{"start":2816.306,"end":2842.844,"text":"所以我想就持续的追踪跟鼓励这件事情要拜托故宫持续努力因为时间有限我们就到下一题好在2024年5月6号有一次的故宫考察我们办公室也参加了当时其实故宫就已经直接告诉每个委员办公室说为了做故宫的文物维护其实有管理人力不足的问题那我们看到故宫也说要在120年的时候完成69万件文物的盘点"},{"start":2844.204,"end":2868.994,"text":"這個盤點工程難以想像我現在想問院長你打算如何因為院長其實之前也說過確實有人力不足的問題請問院長目前如何規劃相關的人力因為我知道故宮目前有透過基金來聘用人力但是基金的經費來源就涉及故宮的營收他會來自於故宮人數文創商品的銷售量這些變數都太大當然我知道故宮參觀人數逐年上升"},{"start":2869.634,"end":2897.47,"text":"再來有沒有可能是我知道你們說要聘用大專院校相關系所的實習生可是實習生的知能培訓紀律跟規範如何把關尤其在面對文物維護的時候我們都不希望出現可怕的新聞所以我想人力不足的部分院長也非常清楚那基金來聘用可能變數太多那實習生又很怕他的能力跟相關的規律還有紀律不足這個部分請問院長有沒有比較新的規劃"},{"start":2898.703,"end":2919.521,"text":"跟委員報告一下就是故宮文路的管理維護分為幾個情況一個就是修復人員修復人員原來有16個當然我們跟人種報要請徵11個人沒有通過可是我們現在的話在去年用基金的方式禁用兩個人所以現在的修復人力是18個人"},{"start":2921.857,"end":2949.406,"text":"但另外的話就是叫做保存維護 保存維護的話基本上來講的話並不限於修復人員 而是專業人員基本上來講的話 不管是書文 器物他們都負擔包括登堡都負擔保存修復的一個工作所以這個算起來的話 基本上來講的話故宮的研究指人員的話 超過100個人所以我們應該有足夠的力量去監控這些文物的一個情況"},{"start":2950.286,"end":2977.137,"text":"再來就是大盤點大盤點的話我們現在基本上希望提出一個社會發展計畫來爭取臨時人力因為過去的話有故宮早期的話都是處立都是機工工友那現在後來的話有替代但是現在機工工友慢慢退休替代也沒有的話所以現在變成就是說要用援救人員來做盤點基本上人力銷量很大"},{"start":2977.637,"end":3006.239,"text":"院長謝謝所以再麻煩你把剛剛你說的大盤點的社會發展計畫你們預計怎麼樣採納人力進來然後經費來源是如何相關的資料還有您剛剛所說的大盤點的部分然後約聘的部分相關我剛剛主持三個部分麻煩給所有教育委員一份資料好嗎是沒有問題最後我問一下故宮的玻璃亭涉及文資爭議其實到了2025年已經是第二次被台北市的文資審議委員會否決了來快速問一下院長這題怎麼辦"},{"start":3009.031,"end":3033.944,"text":"這個計畫因為兩次送那個台北文資他們當然火解可是並沒有講白的就是沒有把他打死他只叫我們修復再修正修調整計畫再送所以我們預計今年的話5月份現在有一個公展在故宮的博物館裡面那5月22會舉行一個學術研討會來討論這件事情之後我們再把修正計畫送到台北市政府文資審議"},{"start":3034.884,"end":3041.829,"text":"好 我很好奇文資審議委員會給你們的專業建議相關的資料是不是可以公開說明讓大家也知道你們如何去應對文資審議委員會給你們的建議"},{"start":3044.253,"end":3070.582,"text":"沒有問題因為我們現在就在公展而且22號會有一個對外的一個論壇來討論這件事情所以這個部分我認為要公開提供好最後我要鼓勵故宮一下來我在你的業務報告裡面的第7頁看到你們把我們辦公室之前追的青少年跟兒童的合作這件事情放入了然後20頁裡面你們也提到關於青少的部分會持續的加強但是我們辦公室會在追蹤相關後續的進度跟"},{"start":3071.542,"end":3090.896,"text":"實質的成果也在拜託故宮提供給我們資料好 以上謝謝包括青少跟無障礙的話這個我們都持續在推動好 我們也會追關於無障礙的部分好 謝謝主席 謝謝院長好 謝謝非常認真的陳輝裕委員"},{"start":3093.735,"end":3120.852,"text":"準備的事項很多看得出你很認真喔院長請坐應登記人員人員數比較多啦討論的預算提案時我相信我會再給更多時間給陳培元發言下一位也是很認真可能六分鐘也不夠的柯志恩委員但是提案預算的時候我相信也會給你們更多時間好謝謝莊委我們請院長"},{"start":3130.385,"end":3145.615,"text":"我们今天是要讨论故宫的预审不过之前我还是要问一下院长劳动部的这个谢于荣案让社会对这个职场霸凌可以说是非常的重视不晓得故宫近三年有关性骚霸凌的投诉记录是多少"},{"start":3147.751,"end":3170.02,"text":"有 不多 大概两三间是这样子吗 两三间那表示院长你可能还不知道很多内部的状况故宫庆祝这个百年风华外面的门面是非常的让大家觉得气质非常的够但是内部呢我想院长你真的还是要非常的清楚一下目前里面就我们的理解来说有很多的管理文化跟外观是完全成反比的"},{"start":3170.6,"end":3189.434,"text":"我想这也许是一些公家单位的常态被长官压下来然后和谐掉了然后呢很多时候也是官官相护我们都得到很多时候只要查无实证的话然后即使有很多员工的悲鸣其实也都没有办法呈到你的那个上面过去而且呢我们还知道有很多涉嫌霸凌者"},{"start":3190.034,"end":3213.551,"text":"他没有得到应得的处分而且反而外调而升官被霸凌的人反而还是不断的被针对来做报复院长你到目前为止你说不太多只有两三件显然你没有充分掌握这个状况时间的关系我是不是可以责成请院长政风处或是人事处对于三年里面你所受理的职场霸凌的统计数字还有处理的方法请交给本席一份可以吗"},{"start":3215.373,"end":3219.963,"text":"好 没有问题近三年的话还有你们处理的方法"},{"start":3220.598,"end":3246.396,"text":"就是新超导的话有五件就是美国安琪院长你把你的处理的方法这是我知道我要知道说我所了解的事情跟你们所处理的所有的记录有没有办法变成一致这只是提供院长做一个真的是对于人力上面的一个需要有更多的一个温度我提供给院长来做一个参考跟我们报告一下我们会把资料提给委员可是牵涉到各自"},{"start":3246.556,"end":3269.733,"text":"当然这我们非常的清楚我们非常的清楚好不好谢谢好来接下来我想故宫就是我们吸引观光的这个门面但是我想这个故宫的预算说实在其实也不太多所以说只要在合理的范围当中我想我们委员都会给故宫很大的一个宽容我们看往下来看我想故宫很重要就是有关外籍旅客的一个占比你可以看得出来12年29"},{"start":3272.877,"end":3281.395,"text":"那當然有中間有很多不一樣包括疫情等等之類但是呢我想請問院長你有沒有把這個外籍的觀光客來訪當作你的重點目標"},{"start":3283.054,"end":3302.927,"text":"外籍的旅客來訪當然是我們最重要的目標對因為過去來說他幾乎是過公司排前兩名的大家說一定要造訪的目前為止來說一定有一些的下滑那他一定有他的理由存在我隨便講一個好了以前這個入境的來的外籍觀光公司韓國跟日本最多114呢還是日本"},{"start":3303.747,"end":3325.309,"text":"一五的就是韩国大概是目前外籍观光客当中其实最青睐故宫但是我要问的就是有没有给他们这些外籍观光客一个更友善的一个空间因为目前来说我上次问过院长这个目前来说的这个翻译到底有多少能够导览这个韩籍的这观光客到底有多少人你们你们的人力到底是如何导览的韩语的导览人力"},{"start":3325.669,"end":3345.32,"text":"因为故宫目前为止的话寒雨导览的志工真的只有一个嘛你知道吗常常很多时候他们自由行的旅客可以预约但是呢因为你们人很少所以一次大概就只要带三四十个人所以你知道吗在寒节旅客当中喜欢故宫但是他给你们的评鉴其实不太好"},{"start":3345.7,"end":3373.769,"text":"就是來自於這個因為他們發現每次都要跟著這麼多人你們對他們的這個所謂導覽的友善度是有待加強的如果你把外籍當作是一個你重點的一個項目的話在這個導覽的以韓語導覽的人數上你應該逐步的來做一個提升才對跟我們報告一下我們上個月召開了一個就政大文大就是有韓語學校的然後跟觀光所以你們會在這個方面裡面會增加更多的人力對不對"},{"start":3374.369,"end":3393.819,"text":"我們召開會議然後去檢討我們現在要跟政大跟文大簽證反正我只是提醒這是他們從他們國外的網站裡面來做一個評比這個東西是你要特別提出的我剛剛特別講透過預算裡面來了解故宮有哪些地方該來做更大的一個增強還有我看到你們的觀光費你們115跟114年比較起來增幅224%這可以說是相當多的"},{"start":3399.682,"end":3428.934,"text":"当然如果到国外去考察我想这无可厚非考察人费用大增我们要知道说你们所编列的跟执行到底有没有互相来做一个吻合我举个例子来说好了你们113年故宫曾经赴英国大英博物馆参访并且商谈合作的意愿对不对大英博物馆嘛对没错吧而且院长一上任的时候也很希望能够跟世界各国都来做这样的一个合作方案嘛但是呢你们访问了大英博物馆后来大英博物馆合作的人是谁"},{"start":3429.814,"end":3451.113,"text":"大英博物馆的话就是这一次的合作是奇美嘛台南的奇美不是不是不是就是过去大英博物馆没有跟故宫有借展的机会这一次的话借展了二十几间的我是说你们希望跟底天交流2020年大英博物馆在台湾的文物展的合作对象不是故宫是奇美我现在只是告诉你说你们出国去旅行"},{"start":3452.874,"end":3468.849,"text":"我们希望能够有一些更具体更可以的一个方式所以的话你看还有很多包括你们提出来的这些等等之类的总而言之这个东西时间关系我想时间关系我们都好改因为每一次的合作都有不一样的当然我知道"},{"start":3469.81,"end":3499.313,"text":"但是我只提醒的品相跟执行方法要非常的一致我们希望能够看到成效那我们这个在有关于出国的预算上面我们会跟院长再来好好的讨教一下还有呢在这个有关于镇院三宝里面有范宽郭熙跟这个李唐的还有颜真卿的这就是我们的国宝那你们之前都是不允许拍照那这些时候呢跑到南院的时候我还是要提醒哦这个是珍贵的国宝那这些跑到南院的时候呢你会发现这个开展当天有人拍"},{"start":3499.873,"end":3521.186,"text":"那有些人发现拍完这个机房之后又来拍这个然后又退到红龙外面去拍这个管理跟这个北院是完全不能比的这个东西是不是院长你真的要好好的来执行一下这个管理的层次各位委员报告目前一般的博物馆美术馆的话都应是拍照可是故宫的现展现展的文物但是在南院的时候"},{"start":3521.466,"end":3523.808,"text":"一直都是禁止閃光燈的可是管理的部分我們會來加強"},{"start":3538.2,"end":3558.47,"text":"要加强特别在南院的部分因为就是跟北院的整个管理的这个严密性完全是差别很大最后一个认真的主席你给认真的委员在最后一个好不好刚刚有特别提到陈佩玉有提到有关于入口的这个玻璃入口你们说你们有个公展吗我只问这个部分里面我看到这个你们所呈现的部分里面"},{"start":3559.15,"end":3579.492,"text":"在整面墻加三个展示柜的模型当中玻璃入口亭还是被放在里面即使文资的审议会已经否决了两次文资的审议会并没有否决它对设计的方案它觉得说需要再调整所以你们还是目前把玻璃入口还是放在里面就对了"},{"start":3580.412,"end":3602.199,"text":"文哲委員並沒有反對所以你們還是做最後的一個審查我還是要提醒專業當然有專業的一個方法但是玻璃亭這個部分裡面你們目前還放在你們的公版的展示當中我只希望這個部分裡面即使兩次被否決有很多的意見你們把它放在那個地方一定有你們的理由但是呢"},{"start":3602.659,"end":3629.507,"text":"不斷的溝通還有這個不管是他的這個屋頂的這個顏色等等之類都有很多的意見我只是希望院長能夠把這個審查的細節讓我們知道為什麼會一定是這個樣子然後你們到五月底結果完之後到底的最後的結果是什麼樣我想跟社會的這樣保持這樣子的資訊的透明是非常重要的我持續跟社會溝通這個沒有問題所以我們要辦一個論壇另外的話在"},{"start":3630.727,"end":3653.332,"text":"專業的部分的話台北市文資會我想他們有他們的專業他們有他們的認定的標準不會說因為故宮為所欲為想做什麼就做什麼我完全同意但是過往顯然帶對於不管是玻璃入口的部分還有長產面積的部分還是蠻堅持的所以說我們想了解到最後的結果是如何不要過去被否決你們不斷的堅持一定有你們堅持的理由我希望這樣的思緒"},{"start":3658.294,"end":3675.344,"text":"所以可以我們都尊重專業我只是提醒院長這個我們尊重專業但是最後部分你到五月底的時候我們把所有的細節大家討論的結果希望能夠讓我們立法院的我們的委員也都能夠了解好不好OK沒有問題謝謝謝謝柯委員"},{"start":3684.909,"end":3710.232,"text":"好待會預算討論的時候我們也歡迎委員繼續表達意見我們下一位委員葛如君葛委員謝謝主席有請故宮校院長有請校院長"},{"start":3714.557,"end":3731.944,"text":"院長這是您這個會期第一次到教育委員會備詢那本期想要就您這個作為現代化的國際紀錄博物館又是這個院長在戰爭與和平的時期要扮演的角色第一個就是全球在關心這個世界真的變得很奇怪"},{"start":3732.324,"end":3757.889,"text":"那伊朗戰爭開打至今有56處的博物館和古蹟受害那這個玫瑰宮是一座建於16世紀聯合國列為世界遺產的地方現在已經被戰火摧殘讓人非常的難過那事實上這個無獨有偶我們跟AI協作整理了十年間博物館有可能在戰爭中遇襲的案例其實是有非常多種的那本席要整理這些案例其實就是要提醒院長"},{"start":3759.009,"end":3788.109,"text":"這個我們不管怎麼樣的情況都要做好緊急應變的準備我們政府發了這個小局書我們也做了各種的這個全民的防衛那針對這個本席啊詢問故宮暫時文物保存的問題故宮答覆呢將依照國立故宮博物院災害緊急應變作業要點來執行文物的撤離但是我們檢視了這份要點啊發現當中竟然沒有關於暫時應變的任何內容"},{"start":3789.129,"end":3800.897,"text":"我想我們回顧故宮的歷史其實在暫時應變我們可以說是專家也真的是有幸把這麼多的國寶撤到台灣那想請問院長為什麼災害緊急應變要點沒有訂定暫時應變的章節呢難道暫時應變不屬於緊急災害嗎院長請回覆"},{"start":3809.565,"end":3830.814,"text":"呃基本上來講的話故宮是有做相關的演習計畫雖然沒有寫暫時可是對於文物的遇到緊急狀況的譬如說測理的話基本上來講這就是暫時所以可以自己想像不用寫在裡面是嗎跟委員報告基本上是有不是這樣子吧密件裡面只有有"},{"start":3832.114,"end":3851.383,"text":"等一下我們現在看到的這個資料密件你們後來有提供我們待會來講但事實上這個災害應變緊急要點這個其實目前都是五年前編寫的其實我不管你們這個密不密件其實有一些要讓同仁一起來協防的就應該要調整"},{"start":3852.723,"end":3871.536,"text":"這五年來世界變化很大機器人可能可以衝進去庫房把文物搬空有很多應該要來討論的都應該要增加去做強化那根據故宮提供的資料這個你說有什麼密件啊有什麼的我們也不能只靠密件過活啊我們要什麼我們要演練嘛"},{"start":3872.196,"end":3888.917,"text":"對不對 是吧那不然我每天都寫一堆秘密然後呢 都不用演習嗎結果我們看到其實確實111 112 113年都有涉及戰爭情境的演習跟演練但是你們文件裡沒有寫有演練"},{"start":3889.938,"end":3918.998,"text":"但是呢 114年是零場啊那今年呢 是零場 還是一場 還是兩場院長 請回覆跟我們報告 今年的話我們是配合那個國土辦的一個國家型演習計畫進行然後進入到那個管制區所以今年是幾 數字是多少今年目前的話 主祕參加的話就是有一場 對那另外的話 藍燕的話我們會配合國土辦在今年的五月份也會辦理"},{"start":3920.138,"end":3943.199,"text":"我們進一步其實有詢問其實實體戰爭以外還有資安的戰爭資訊還有聯通其實很重要在緊急應變的做法結果故宮給我們的答覆說你們在緊急應變的處置作為是成立緊急應變小組由院長擔任指揮官相關單位組成應變小組以賴群組及時傳遞訊息院長"},{"start":3946.101,"end":3964.804,"text":"我不知道你們有沒有編列說那到時候緊急狀況的時候有誰可以進入這個LINE群組啊這個院長您可不可以擔保這個群組內所有人的手機裝置軟體版本都有更新到最新嗎法官委員報告這個群組本來就存在的緊急通報系統的話本來就在我的LINE群組裡面"},{"start":3965.285,"end":3990.41,"text":"更恐怖了我剛剛問了你可以確保裡面每一個人的手機的LINE版本都有符合安全條件嗎每一位同仁手機看電子郵件有跟私人用途分開嗎攻擊者有沒有可能已經滲透到這些手機裡面了或者有沒有設定2FA二階段驗證有沒有去做這些相關的資安檢查如果這個LINE群組已經存在更可怕"},{"start":3993.441,"end":4013.639,"text":"委員提醒這個部分的確是我們要來檢討就是這個目前的賴群組裡面的話到底他的安全狀況其實是真的要討論為什麼啊因為這一點我們真的很緊張因為這個賴群組基本上來講都是我們自己的同仁所以當然同仁的手機的話我們沒有辦法就個別去對不起"},{"start":4013.959,"end":4040.727,"text":"院長沒關係所以我們要講的就是您平時用的群組是平時喔緊急時刻的群組是緊急時刻的群組喔我們一直在問的是緊急時刻你說現在就有我們平時的通報系統包括媒星包括工作這個有但是緊急通報系統是單獨的一個結果你們就是回應我們你們緊急應變的時候要成立那一群組已經有在那邊了"},{"start":4044.889,"end":4069.83,"text":"院長你回去看一下直播我的問題是緊急應變的時候您說要另外成立群組那事實上您說緊急應變的群組現在就成立了這件事情是不成立的為什麼我們已經問了資安署了在緊急狀況的時候不可以在LINE的平台去涉及機敏資訊要遵循相關法規"},{"start":4070.45,"end":4087.372,"text":"也就是換句話說我幫您翻譯故宮絕對不能在緊急狀態戰爭時期使用LINE來傳遞機敏資訊所以您的答案不應該是這個LINE群組已經存在了所以我們緊急應變戰爭時期用LINE群組這是你們給我回應"},{"start":4089.374,"end":4102.732,"text":"那如果這樣子的話那的確故宮要檢討就是說如果緊急狀態的時候我們原來的緊急通報的耐情組不能轉換使用的話那到底用什麼樣的一個通訊工具這個我們當然要檢討"},{"start":4103.633,"end":4125.363,"text":"謝謝院長可以立即緊急的在現場我們在這個質詢當中做應變但是我們要講的就是緊急應變不要在我們立法委員提醒的時候你才說原來不可以用LINE讓我們來緊急應變不是這樣的好不好平時就要準備所以我們才講說這個你們相關的辦法已經定五年了要趕快檢討"},{"start":4126.723,"end":4144.048,"text":"是事實上我們馬上來檢討我們最近我自己很愛啦我是丹布朗的粉絲最近最新一本書《秘密中的秘密》文藝界人士在小說裡面都已經在用SIGNAL加密通訊軟體了啦好不好我相信政府內部也有很多在推導使用SIGNAL啦"},{"start":4144.528,"end":4168.484,"text":"所以LINE很棒很方便但是有可能不適合資安署也回覆我們了說不應該傳遞機敏資訊戰爭的時候緊急的狀況要撤離絕對屬於機敏資訊請在這個時候要能夠回應為什麼呢因為你們的文件告訴我們斷網的時候故宮有LINE可以用跟中華電信的一呼百應"},{"start":4169.766,"end":4176.798,"text":"這個合理嗎故宮在緊急斷網小局書說全台大規模斷網的時候你們通訊備案是什麼 院長"},{"start":4179.316,"end":4202.908,"text":"這個部分的話 跟委員報告 我們會立即來檢討好不好 為什麼 因為緊急狀況斷網的時候是沒有LINE的中華電信一呼百應也可能是沒有回應的那這個有沒有要搭配一些衛星的通訊或近地的端到端的 點到點的 分散式的通訊的這個我想故宮可能也要來討論一下啦那我想為什麼我們一直很重視這件事情呢"},{"start":4203.408,"end":4224.08,"text":"是因為故宮是我們中華民國最強大的軟實力這個Joseph Ney在80年代提出軟實力那我們真的是要感謝故宮為什麼故宮帶領我們的文化文物走向國際走向世界去年九月這樣的一個活動非常棒結果呢減四五年來有關國際交流預算"},{"start":4226.261,"end":4247.996,"text":"竟然本來我們期待是節節上升 蒸蒸日上結果竟然在2026年115年度竟然砍半那故宮呢在請求人事組織調整的時候人事總署我們剛剛講了喔 捷克很成功我們剛剛還看到未來還有結果人事總署竟然說國際交流及公共事務的業務量故宮"},{"start":4250.437,"end":4273.345,"text":"事無險助成長來答覆院長有沒有很委屈啊這個本來我們是想說給您30秒但因為今天我們時間比較短這個主席很用心希望我們再壓縮一下有沒有兩句話我們可以跟行政院喊話多爭取一點國際交流的經費所以故宮一直在爭取那當然就是說故宮做得不夠努力我想我們會加強"},{"start":4275.067,"end":4302.05,"text":"我是要幫你說話你們很努力啦同仁很努力啦交流很成功啦不要外交部都把我們故宮交流的成果放上去就人事總署在那邊說事無險促成長不要這樣子好不好大委員這個經費減少的話是因為去年是百年宴慶所以百年宴慶的話有賺到一比九千多萬的經費那這個經費的話是一次性的經費所以減少所以相對的話在分配額上面就減少了"},{"start":4302.27,"end":4326.57,"text":"好,感謝解釋,那接下來116咧?你們打算編多少?會不會又再剪啊?116我們希望增加好,我們先尊重啦那我想這個故宮啊,真的是我們的領頭羊啦這個院長可以考慮日韓啦其實日本、韓國都有海外展駐城事業的補助韓國有海外韓國展廳支援計畫"},{"start":4327.671,"end":4342.527,"text":"不惜出錢出力也要將自己的國家文化輸出到世界上的每一個角落能不能跟文化部跨部會合作爭取一個像這樣的一種跨部會的共同輸出軟實力的一個計畫有沒有機會"},{"start":4343.57,"end":4372.548,"text":"好我們來努力因為牽涉到四環免扣藥的問題但日韓的確他們過去在這方面的話運作都非常的成功是你看我們主席很用心都在做筆記我想我們大家一起來努力最後謝謝院長我要用蔣渭水前輩兩句話來大家彼此齊勉樂為世界人台灣名譽心希望故宮從101歲開始能夠從台灣的故宮變成世界的故宮把台灣的文化"},{"start":4373.228,"end":4400.771,"text":"我們非常美麗的文化文物啊 傳遞到世界上每一個角落讓台灣的聲譽 美名 弘揚國際我們一起來努力好嗎好 謝謝我們的鼓勵 我們會加油謝謝院長好 謝謝我們葛如今委員下一位資訊委員 林一錦委員謝主席 有請蕭院長有請蕭院長"},{"start":4406.524,"end":4426.711,"text":"林委員長去年底故宮南苑的甲子萬年百年苑慶特展讓包含西山行旅圖在內的三件國寶集到南苑去展覽我想目前"},{"start":4429.613,"end":4447.131,"text":"馬關條約的正本也正在南院展出那在這裡順便廣告一下在這個禮拜五月十號就要結束展期大家可以把握機會去南院來看這個展那我想一檔又一檔的這個展覽重大展覽在南院來舉辦可見蕭院長對這個南院的發展非常重視"},{"start":4452.336,"end":4465.166,"text":"那在蕭院長的領導之下南苑的地位跟所承擔的任務我想也勢必越來越重大那不過在那個野島剛的採訪中蕭院長你有透露說應該要有更高層級的首長來常駐南苑那蕭院長我想請蕭院長說明說為什麼你會這樣子說就為什麼南苑要需要有更高層級的這個首長來常駐那這個事情目前有解決了嗎"},{"start":4480.899,"end":4496.22,"text":"那如果沒有那到底會有什麼樣的壞處有什麼缺點那如果沒有這個高層的更高層的這個首長願意常駐南院的話那作為這個故宮最高指揮官的你你要怎麼處置這項問題院長"},{"start":4499.978,"end":4516.398,"text":"公文報告就是故宮南院的話到底是要成為一個故宮的附屬的婚宴或是平行的單位這個在之前就討論過後來是變成是一個平行的故宮南院北院雙院雙子彼此支援"},{"start":4517.159,"end":4541.859,"text":"那如果變成是一個獨立單位有一個所長的話當然好可是他會牽涉到另外一個問題就是說他的會計預算獨立他的文入借調的話行政程序的話會比較環附那以現在來講的話雖然有常駐的所長就是我們南院處處長他實際上就是一個常駐的所長那另外的話就是包括院長副院長我們不定期的都會過去督導起碼"},{"start":4542.62,"end":4557.567,"text":"每個月的一個工程督導的話我都親自出席那另外的話副院長、院長的話也都會各種不同的會議或是情況出席所以南院跟北院的業務銜接基本上來講是沒有問題的"},{"start":4559.445,"end":4587.747,"text":"好 當然啦 若就院長您的看法跟我也認同就是說其實南院如果跟北院是平行的話其實南院至少要有這個副院長要來常駐這樣才是比較好的這個發展所以我想未來可能院長在這方面還要再多努力好 那另外我要跟你探討就是故宮文物現在因為依照這個我們這個典藏文物管理作業要點我們就是全面"},{"start":4589.228,"end":4597.813,"text":"這個盤點要每20年來完成一次那過去已經有經過三次的全面盤點那今年聽說我們下半年就要來正式著手來進行盤點那預計在2032年會交出書面報告給立法院那預計就是歷時有6年"},{"start":4610.302,"end":4635.697,"text":"好 那今天跟院長提文物盤點我主要關心的有兩樣第一個就是故宮北院庫房的改革第二個就是故宮南院在北院整修過程中的任務承接北院庫房的問題除了漏水之外當然就是空間不足那庫房空間不足首先當然就是對這個不同文物所對應的這個設備要求以及它作業的規劃的動線"},{"start":4638.519,"end":4666.781,"text":"所以我們剛剛提到就是文物的全面盤點為例在庫房空間不足的這個狀況之下那我們盤點文物就很可能會遇到拍燈式的狀況進而影響這個盤點的品質所以不曉得院長你有沒有考慮過就是說將這一次的文物盤點跟故宮北院的整修工作相結合也就是說我們取出文物來進行確認的同時也慢慢將文物運往南院"},{"start":4667.801,"end":4693.398,"text":"讓北院騰出更大的空間來做日後盤點的工作那之所以會這樣建議是因為去年11月跟院長的詢答過程中你就有表示未來北院進行整修的時候更多的更大的展出量能會放在南院而且我們也知道南院二館在2028就要啟動營運那會比現在我們有更強的那個展示的量能"},{"start":4694.258,"end":4711.9,"text":"那這一題其實在2018年就有談過當時部分的人士一面是阻止文物移到南院的庫房那一方面又質疑說文物繼續留在北院臨時空間不安全所以本席認為其實"},{"start":4713.422,"end":4742.239,"text":"在2026年的今天我們就不該再卡在這種毫無建設性的問題討論中我必須說任何妨礙北院重建的行為才是真正來危害文物安全既然北院的整建擴建我們不能再拖那未來的展示勢必是難移那何不藉由這次的文物盤點我們逐步來做南北院典藏空間的整理跟互相配合院長我說那麼多你怎麼看"},{"start":4743.175,"end":4760.692,"text":"跟委員報告的確現在現階段我們就只有這樣的一個規劃因為在北岸盤點的時候就是說因為它的卡樓就是空間不足我們現在北岸的話在研究大樓地下也都在建庫房所以有一部分的話會得到一個舒展"},{"start":4761.192,"end":4789.233,"text":"那另外的話藍燕的話因為藍燕的第二館我們當初定義國寶館就要長期展示榮仗經所以榮仗經的部分這些部分的文物都會移到藍燕去典藏所以這個部分的話我們會整體來盤整來調整所以等於是會藉由這次的大盤點我們就漸漸的把一些文物往南移但是藍燕的庫房也是有限所以我們會找出一個最適合的一個方案來處理"},{"start":4790.665,"end":4803.876,"text":"因為二管也要開啟了嘛好 那再來跟院長討論預算的問題喔因為去年是公百歲的生日那可是我覺得是遇上了百年的浩劫喔水電費被刪了1034萬那宣傳費被刪了60%出國旅費也被刪了60%那預算遭凍結束也是史上空前的20%"},{"start":4818.248,"end":4833.134,"text":"那對於出國旅費倍大三為了我們不要耽誤跨國合作工作的進行故宮還要去尋求社會贊助來讓故宮人員可以出國來維護展覽的品質堂堂一個國際級的博物館"},{"start":4834.975,"end":4847.285,"text":"居然被藍白惡搞到展覽都要向社會來募款的地步喔其實是令人感慨那剛剛葛偉遠在跟你質疑說啊這個國際交流的預算啊什麼事務顯著成長那預算幹不成這樣 是不是要顯著成長對不對 還要給社會不看"},{"start":4854.07,"end":4881.963,"text":"那好 不過沒想到這個政業黨今年又遏止了一次故宮為什麼因為今天才開始所謂的預算巡打等於是讓故宮背著去年被亂砍亂刪的預算一路運作到現在所以首先要請院長說明現在財審預算對故宮原先的工作規劃造成了哪些衝擊另外等到故宮真的能用到立法院的審完的預算的時候我想年都過了一半了啦"},{"start":4882.603,"end":4899.713,"text":"那如果這一次又提到一大堆凍結案那時程上是不是會到年底才解凍或者根本沒辦法解凍那就是實質被刪減所以為了不讓故宮被刪得比去年還兇的狀況院長你要不要趁這個機會跟大家呼籲一下"},{"start":4901.728,"end":4916.521,"text":"當然希望說這次的預算審查可以順利因為依據過去的一個預算審查的慣例我們雖然可以用去年的結算數作為一個額度可是也不曉得在審查的時候原來的額度會不會也被刪減"},{"start":4917.882,"end":4935.755,"text":"那另外新興的部分當然準時我們使用可是也是同樣的一個問題就是說在規劃上面的話就是會有一點點餘力所以我們希望這個預算可以趕快順利通過希望大院可以給我們支持好 謝謝院長 謝謝主席謝謝"},{"start":4945.785,"end":4955.409,"text":"我們有請下一位郭育群郭委員好 謝謝主席 有請院長郭委員長"},{"start":4962.165,"end":4982.997,"text":"院長早安那我想還是要肯定一下這個故宮這幾年做的這些展覽尤其是一些跨界的一個展覽像最近的這個神獸展其實這個口碑風評都相當的不錯但是想到神獸其實我就想到這個當年這個中國政協委員陳龍曾經捐給那個南院有一批"},{"start":4984.017,"end":5012.072,"text":"這十二生肖授手的一個複製品那當時社會是怎麼評斷的喔那他們的講法非常直接文化同戰工藝非常粗糙自毀割掉那後來呢在2016年我們拆掉入庫那問題是現在這些入庫的他還躺在庫房當中嗎這是我第一個問題喔那如果他還在庫房當中他是佔了多少的一個空間那如果說當時我們故宮也講這不是文物"},{"start":5012.492,"end":5040.12,"text":"是一般的財產那這批的財產現在佔了多少的庫房的一些資源因為每年呢其實我們都有花這些預算不管是在濕度的控制溫度的控制白蟻的控制或者是我們24小時的監控其實都有預算但是問題是我們為什麼要花公帑去養一批有爭議又沒有價值的一些複製品那現在呢這一批複製品目前在哪裡那是不是只要"},{"start":5040.66,"end":5065.961,"text":"沒有通過所謂的正式審核我們還是照單全收但我一定要強調的是南院並不是收容所啊好這個第一個問題請教一下院長各位報告這些文物這些物件的話在一般性的庫房不是在我們的典藏庫房因為它沒有經過典藏的審議程序好所以現在是在一般性的庫房是那沒有做任何的處理就是躺在那裡"},{"start":5067.312,"end":5092.142,"text":"也不是躺在那裡我們也是好好收藏雖然這一批文物是當初拍電影的時候的模型去翻銅的它事實上不是從文物上直接去複製的它是電影的倒計模型去把它換成銅那有沒有想過有更好的處理方式比方說我們要歸還還是轉做教育的用途或者是說像類似這樣子我們有一個收售的機制"},{"start":5093.323,"end":5119.666,"text":"因為想當然這是別人的好意但是這別人的好意可能後面還有其他的一些用意在如果他真的就像這個一般民間所說的他可能會有所謂的統戰的問題那這個部分我們有沒有一個建立一個機制不是照單全收我們來研究一下因為這也不是我個人意志就是說要怎麼樣做怎麼做我們希望說找人來達成一個共識看後續怎麼處理比較理想好"},{"start":5120.146,"end":5143.277,"text":"那我想我剛剛有提供一些建議啦也可以轉為所謂的這個教育的用途也可以啦好那第二個問題我想請教一下院長那今年其實有人直接把船給開進了這個南越的善湖那這個主張說要清水泉那你們也說會演繹但是我要在這邊特別的提醒因為畢竟我們的故宮南越它不是一般的公園"},{"start":5143.897,"end":5172.208,"text":"它是國際級的服務館那麼安全要優先喔這並不是一個口號喔那我想這個湖它本來就不是用來所謂的這個休憩啦玩耍喔它是一個景觀加上製洪的一個用途那當初的設計請問有包含划船嗎因為我想如果有抽水設備或者是有一些落差或者是護坡那貿然的開放會不會有一些風險因為就是故宮這邊也說會嚴疫那如果"},{"start":5172.648,"end":5194.353,"text":"如果真的萬一發生了什麼樣的意外到底誰要來負責那麼保險或者是法律上的責任有沒有想清楚那要不要備有所謂的救生員或者是一些救難的一些設備那再來會不會排擠到其他的預算我想這個水域管理的錢它既不是從這個既有的一些安全預算來做挪用"},{"start":5194.773,"end":5212.026,"text":"那我想我們自己南院本身就有所謂的這個維護管理的費用那我想這個115年度我們也編列了大概4936.7萬那會不會影響排擠到其他像是保全或是警犬養殉的這些本業請教一下院長"},{"start":5213.366,"end":5235.655,"text":"顧問報告 故宮南院的管理辦法裡面基本上來講的話是排除水域活動的 因為它是滯洪池那滯洪池分為上池下池 基本上來講的話它會隨水位調整所以在水位低的時候其實是根本不適合水域上的活動 何況我們本身就禁止了而且這個禁止不是故宮 就是"},{"start":5236.415,"end":5260.452,"text":"基本上來講大部分的有關制洪者有關一個水庫營用的部分都禁止水域上的活動所以就是清水可以但是不能拿安全來開玩笑對就是說合法的一個水域場域很多那這個團體的話第一次來的時候實際上在輿論上沒有得到支持第二次他講要來的時候後來他們就沒有來了"},{"start":5261.252,"end":5285.681,"text":"好所以我們有所謂的這個開放跟不開放我建議故宮啦就不管怎麼樣其實這個部分要說清楚講明白那開不開放都應該要有所謂的這個方案還有這個責任上的一個歸屬如果不是我們自己本身的我剛剛講了如果這不是我們故宮的一個專業其實真的就不要硬扛免得這個責任歸屬到時候其實發生問題有安全上的一些疑慮可能對故宮也不好好"},{"start":5286.721,"end":5314.329,"text":"那再來第三個質疑我想問一下院長了去年其實當然其實我去過故宮好多次帶小朋友去或者自己去當考察其實我很喜歡周邊的一些這個文創的商品但是我很想這個去年我們的文創營收是3.9億這個數字看起來其實真的還蠻漂亮的但是我大概看了一下2.4億是靠百年紀念金銀條快撐起來的那我想這個部分是不是就有一點點的問題了"},{"start":5316.59,"end":5334.982,"text":"那如果說這個網友他可能表達的很直接啦他說就是把這個翠玉白菜做成鑰匙圈那結論就是老派兩個字是他包圍那個那個信息錯誤因為24億的話是整個中央造幣廠的經費不是故宮賣的裡面的那個不對的是所以2.4億是不是光靠這個經營條塊撐起來的那是那個"},{"start":5345.569,"end":5372.453,"text":"那個什麼台銀那邊的收帳整體的收入不是故宮的收入好那我們在文創這個部分我們有沒有想要再多更多的一些開發因為像很多人就有很多的點子就是說我們如果還是停留在所謂的這個紀念品的思維如果沒有跨出所謂的這個傳統的這個舒適圈我想這個文創的這個創意可能我們還要再往"},{"start":5373.874,"end":5394.192,"text":"跟委員報告故宮第一個階段的確是以所謂的文創是紀念品為主第二個階段的話就是IPIP的話就是把故宮的這些複製品的形象或是什麼轉移到物件上面那我們第三個階段的話是聯名開發基本上來講的話已經跨出了所謂的制式的"},{"start":5395.053,"end":5419.811,"text":"紀念品或是複製的形式是這個信息的人因為只看了他看得懂的部分他不曉得我們聯名開發其實我們做得非常多因為我想呢這個故宮我們應該不只是美學也不只是印上logo而已其實要有更多更多更創新的一些點子尤其是在文創的這個周邊的商品當中那其實這個故宮的這個商店我也很愛逛"},{"start":5420.632,"end":5431.137,"text":"那尤其是每一次在跟這個國際來做一些聯展的時候其實有一些周邊的商品一合作其實我也是買爆它好那我們繼續加油好嗎是謝謝委員謝謝謝謝院長好謝謝郭宇峻委員下一屆質詢的委員是謝龍介謝委員"},{"start":5456.665,"end":5470.417,"text":"主席我請議長好 請有請院長委員長早上議長早上 辛苦請教你來接這個業務 議長多久了三年 三年比較久三年喔 那麼疫情以後就是你來了是 是所以看這個觀光客"},{"start":5484.13,"end":5501.783,"text":"有時候,你如果沒有很多理想的錢可以開啦我看你們這個觀光的效應,一年背後一年很多人,是怎樣?呃,給威廉報告你來後,有沒有突破啊?其實有啊,其實以前以前最少40萬人,現在總共350多萬人啊你就,如果要批"},{"start":5513.208,"end":5529.773,"text":"比19年 約情離空年 比19年你就有夠慘嘛對不對現在過去日本觀光客 韓國觀光客來坦白講 過境是有夠慘的啊為什麼還會讓我一直衰尾 你知道嗎"},{"start":5538.699,"end":5543.229,"text":"疫情的影響其實很大你們有對觀光團去做調查嗎?"},{"start":5547.26,"end":5558.523,"text":"公共工具調查和委員報告,過去70年,我們說平均,那有更長的70年是外面的公共工具,日本實在是最多,對不對?你去年日本差不多,跟韓國差不多啦,日本是29萬9,韓國是29萬7"},{"start":5574.507,"end":5597.453,"text":"這兩個差不多啦,我問你喔,請教你,你這個立議跟寒議的獨立,你裡面總共有多少人?立議有多少人?市議員寒議有多少人?寒議一位,一級比較多的人,一級多的人,幾個人我不知道"},{"start":5601.67,"end":5605.974,"text":"不知道,我告訴你,這最重要的,這兩個觀光客60萬啦60萬,你也想啊,你也要人家95萬,這兩個就佔60萬啦"},{"start":5621.431,"end":5632.859,"text":"你不知道說你裡面有多少...一季的導覽因為沒什麼問題,所以禮拜的時候都很重你如果說你晚不久,如果這樣還有現場,我會說因為紆紆的,這就是人們觀光客抱怨嘛,倒數嘛"},{"start":5643.146,"end":5651.137,"text":"到時候說我們去啦,要聽那個日記的特朗普就說這個特朗普完,跟韓國的官公說這個特朗普完除了一半的二三十個,他在那裡說二三十個要去哪裡"},{"start":5660.97,"end":5670.635,"text":"我告訴你這就是人家會懷疑說是不是你裡面的特朗普我跟委員報告因為韓國政府也沒有不對但是韓國的問題因為他的生態不一樣韓國都自己帶導覽的對啦導覽我告訴你導覽我也有在講導覽但是我不一定對這裡有"},{"start":5681.872,"end":5687.376,"text":"有很成立的理解啊我們自己的特朗普真的可以把我們故鄉的情緒跟文化傳達給世界的路客嘛這不一樣嗎你也說應付一下就好了啊我都有應付很簡單嘛你用AI就好了嘛我跟委員報告因為我們的導覽是免費的但是韓國他們都用錢 用錢在搶"},{"start":5708.672,"end":5716.46,"text":"用一個車,所以這裡變貨,都跑去接他們的有錢的導覽我講的那樣嘛,黨小子啊,比喻擁護,你要推廣觀光,你要keep in 世界的觀光界開一鍋錢,椰一鍋米糠,你都沒有椰米糠,魚還是要怎麼鋪啦啊,不然你的人手,你三黨五啊,沒辦法突破"},{"start":5732.276,"end":5742.785,"text":"這樣如果除了這個以外 國共的兩岸是最硬的兩岸 日經的兩岸國共的兩岸這麼硬的 尤其是裡面 若是說在這個過程 德南的過程 其實是說是在硬貼的部分不然的話 生氣不容易 譬如說 我看你們的觀光團是這樣嘛差不多10點到這裡 遊覽車很多人來 看他12點到就要外面吃飯了嘛"},{"start":5760.854,"end":5771.036,"text":"所以差不多11點半就結束了啦這樣讓我來看,差不多點半鐘,90分之18分鐘啦因為我要觀光客是這樣,沒有叫觀光當事人你來看,一個故鄉這麼精采我告訴你,你看一天就看不下去了,就沒得搞了我們不要要求觀光客一天我告訴你,阿達米MOA的美術館你有沒有去過?"},{"start":5783.966,"end":5793.132,"text":"有去過你看人家怎麼用的外國的中間有時候我們可以去參加雖然國共有中華文化很特殊的情緒跟意向在裡面我們也不希望說"},{"start":5804.69,"end":5820.942,"text":"可是這是你的主條性,不希望說有外來的包括西洋文化、包括中國的現代感,來造成各種衝突但是我們去看就是說,譬如說阿達米MOA,我前陣子去看的時候,因為它是百多檔,一百多檔的電管"},{"start":5827.967,"end":5848.932,"text":"所以跟故鄉有類似說,一個古典館裡面,他多久的時間,他可以去挖法,他可以去申法因為你現在要主張的故鄉現代化,大家我看你的結尾是一、二、三的奪取,沒辦法完全你原本提出的故鄉"},{"start":5850.868,"end":5869.353,"text":"是不是要去融合別人的優點你看他很現代 現代你看他的玻璃壺 落地湯很廣嘛很明亮嘛 再來印進日本特色的美食你說當故宮來的嗎 你來的也有在賣產業嘛是比較少而已 你沒辦法做這種結合"},{"start":5875.58,"end":5878.872,"text":"譬如說有名的餐飲,這個人站在那裡,不用說九十分久我就要走了"},{"start":5882.11,"end":5899.24,"text":"人在這裡越久,他回去之後,對故鄉的選團會越豐富,越精彩我不是只有來看中華文化五千年的歷史,夠悶悶的我站在鄉愁的旁邊,台南的碗粿,竟然在故鄉吃得到好,你看看,這樣就不一樣了可以吃到三百年,一位三百年,像我們台灣人,四百年,那也是故事啊"},{"start":5911.647,"end":5927.556,"text":"對不對 也可以用電太風啦 我們坦白說你就是要有很多過程 你如果有去過MOA的秘書館雖然它不是很複雜的產業嘛但是它讓客人到吃飯時間 到不敢離開的時候 它可以留在這裡它不用就要一定處理 所以這個風口的大變化"},{"start":5937.56,"end":5955.125,"text":"我告訴你 我實在是說的你做營長 我跟你說這樣喔你如果設法調整 我跟你說這個不用花很多錢我知道 剛才委員的指導因為團結 因為來台灣的時間沒有多久通常八天就已經很多了 但是一般的上課一般的上課我們就要吃飯了 因為你沒有嘛 卡蘇你來這裡 我這樣說啦他們在你這裡喔 你開了要找他吃甜太鳳卡蘇你過了 叫他吃甜太鳳 我跟你說 他會繼續住在這裡他的菠蘿都在這裡 你聽到沒有"},{"start":5967.509,"end":5973.412,"text":"是啊,因為故宮...不僅是這什麼餐廳啦,不僅是什麼餐廳啦,我是跟你說,這種的,這種的大變化、大變化的世界,開設錢可以二大錢啦,不是一定要開很多錢,做什麼建設,有人是要小賓利大功耶。是是是。"},{"start":5991.977,"end":6003.08,"text":"你感覺如何?是,在餐飲方面,當然,國共希望說有更多元,所以我們現在,第二次的電腦館的頂頭,也是現在在這個產業,是,第二次電腦館,我們現在委託一個新的廠商,我們希望說餐飲的部分有更多元,"},{"start":6018.124,"end":6045.102,"text":"真的要用了,你都說好了,為什麼你用假的,為什麼台南的,我過了30年都沒放了?北京的地區電腦館,我們會跟廠商來合謀溝通喔,合格才醫療,我不知道,原來你都說好了,你當假的比較好台南的沒人問你,你整個說,我們台南還是真正台灣的美食之多,你懂?是"},{"start":6047.174,"end":6074.673,"text":"人家台中的地方你都不知道主席我們教委在這裡看他在看你都沒注意到是是是我們沒有辦法大文化 經濟豐富的國民美食可以融入在國共五千年的文化裡面我告訴你也許你會意外打出錢來打好感謝你我跟委託這個廠商來研究看看謝謝委員"},{"start":6078.646,"end":6101.18,"text":"好謝謝謝榮介委員精彩的質詢阿也跟院長報告台中大麵跟太陽餅很多啦太陽餅這個部分也多參考一下謝謝請坐請坐我們下一位"},{"start":6103.246,"end":6114.097,"text":"下一位蔡春愁委員發言我們吳思瑤委員發言完以後休息五分鐘好 謝謝"},{"start":6133.156,"end":6135.103,"text":"主席好 有請蕭院長有請院長 謝謝"},{"start":6139.922,"end":6144.665,"text":"蔡委員長蔡委員長蔡委員長蔡委員長蔡委員長蔡委員長蔡委員長蔡委員長"},{"start":6172.024,"end":6189.355,"text":"我們故宮今年一百一十五年度故宮的公務預算稅出被列二十九億六千五百六十四萬元那其中這個新故宮計畫是在一百一十五年也算是那個"},{"start":6191.274,"end":6194.256,"text":"新故宮的經費裡面是重中之重新故宮計畫總共在中程計畫經歷了三次的修正跟延長目前執行期是在107年一直到116年"},{"start":6210.046,"end":6211.106,"text":"那個經費達到107多億那要問院長就是說115年你們編列了16.58億元這次新故宮計畫啟動以來"},{"start":6225.231,"end":6249.072,"text":"最高峰的那麼我要請問 請問院長就是說目前各分項的工程還有計畫 招標是不是很順利那如果115年這一個16.58億如果沒有花完的話是不是會影響到進度那麼116年是不是能夠如期如止的完成"},{"start":6251.335,"end":6277.178,"text":"跟委員報告因為新故宮計畫分為三個區塊一個區塊是北院一個區塊是南院然後一個區塊的話是一個提升觀光價值的一個計畫那在工程方面的話北院的行政延期當然完成第二展覽館完成然後現在在進行那個研究大樓的整修另外的話就是"},{"start":6279.039,"end":6288.078,"text":"政管的部分的話,當然就是說經過了兩次審查沒有通過,但是台北市政府自己請故宮再送,所以這個部分我們會依程序來進行"},{"start":6290.543,"end":6311.923,"text":"南燕的國寶館已經完成了整個鋼骨結構的商量然後現在在做外板膠柱這個都完成了預計在明年的七月會完工這個就請你簡單跟我們報告就是說是會如期我們希望可以如期可是事實上現在的工程進度的話"},{"start":6313.445,"end":6327.542,"text":"應該是落後5%左右落後5%那就是說116年沒有辦法如期完工是嗎可能原來的議定的明年的"},{"start":6329.384,"end":6349.969,"text":"所謂的完工的話 其實當初定義的完工的話是工程的完工實際上我們還是要做展示設計所以還是要 可能會延期啦是 可能會延期 對那就是說這個是10年嘛 10年起嘛那有一些部分 應該有硬體有軟體嘛"},{"start":6350.609,"end":6363.241,"text":"那應該不是所有都是10年嘛那這個期間呢有哪一些已經在營運了就是說是在這個10年期裡面的一個工程軟體的部分有已經開始在營運了嗎"},{"start":6366.613,"end":6392.803,"text":"一直都在就是說一直都在進行譬如說行政園區的話基本上都完成了第二展覽館也OK那現在的話就是研究大樓的話是邊修邊因為研究大樓的話是一個辦公室邊修邊運作那事實上鎮館的話還是一直在運作那南院的部分的話因為工程所以他在土建的部分都完成了就是"},{"start":6394.103,"end":6413.057,"text":"還沒有辦法可以正式營運好那我們就是因為還是請那個院長能夠把這個10年我想我們給委員就是一個比較完整的就是公職監督跟說明好送一個報告到北半來好那"},{"start":6414.238,"end":6431.518,"text":"再來就是要跟剛剛有很多委員都有跟院長提到就是我們的觀光客那從113年來台的旅客最喜歡的景點我們故宮從第五名掉到第七名其實我要告訴院長台灣"},{"start":6434.707,"end":6453.341,"text":"其實台灣有兩個光光的雙引擎在這裡要跟那個院長分享第一個引擎當然是故宮的一個狗把另外一個引擎我要跟院長分享就是媽祖文化的一個民間宗教信仰文化"},{"start":6455.922,"end":6475.149,"text":"這次神獸再現,故宮也用了本土民間的宗教文化來結合起來藉用了北港朝天宮的一些文物在這裡我是要跟院長說明,我們的故宮文物是國寶"},{"start":6479.89,"end":6503.259,"text":"但是我們現在另外一個文化的軟石其實是媽祖文化那如果說我們在對外國際觀光能夠把故宮的一個國寶還有就是我們現在最有特色的台灣文化特色的媽祖文化一起能夠向國際來宣揚"},{"start":6506.32,"end":6526.695,"text":"讓很多國際友人對於媽祖文化的一個好奇譬如說現在三葉我們常常講三葉消媽祖現在陸陸續續在這一個月陸陸續續有很多媽祖文化如果未來能夠結合媽祖文化"},{"start":6529.536,"end":6549.027,"text":"來體驗媽祖文化同時來到我們故宮來享受我們台灣的一個很特殊的一些文物我想如果能夠這樣做一個配合我們希望能夠更國際化用這樣的兩個引擎來吸引更多的國際友人來到"},{"start":6549.927,"end":6575.732,"text":"那個臺灣那個院長你的看法好謝謝謝謝委員的提醒就是說這一次的話就是說我們神獸在線的話找了北港朝天宮借探的文錄事實上我們跟宮廟合作是因為在沒有博物館之前的話其實宮廟就是一個博物館不管它的雕刻石雕木雕彩繪基本上來講的話都是一個非常重要的一個文化資產所以"},{"start":6576.272,"end":6591.148,"text":"委員提醒的話我們也在思考未來的話譬如說像我們到巴黎去做龍展我們能不能也把台灣民間的文物跟故宮的文物合在一起送到外面去展覽這是一個新的嘗試未來我們可以來研究看看"},{"start":6591.468,"end":6615.364,"text":"是 是 如果能夠把我們台灣的一個軟實力藉由我們故宮的一個文物外展的時候同時也把我們民間的一些很特殊的一些文物文化介紹到國外去然後能夠引起我們國外的一個友人國際的友人來到我們台灣我們希望用這樣的一個策略來這樣的一個誘因來引誘我們更多的一個"},{"start":6617.405,"end":6638.19,"text":"國際的能見度最後我要跟院長就是說故宮的一個部分的工程進度還有改善成果北行也很肯定但是我還是要執行故宮要確認三件事第一件就是新故宮計畫在116年"},{"start":6641.011,"end":6656.321,"text":"不管能不能如期完成那我等一下就是需要那個給我一個報告然後呢第2個是文物安全還有資安改善是否能夠真的可以追蹤還有可以契合可以作者"},{"start":6656.921,"end":6684.539,"text":"第三就是門票的收入還有文物藝術藝術發展基金是否能夠有效的一個實際的能夠呈現是實際的一個績效最後我要跟院長講就是說故宮是國家級的一個博物館是我國傲視全球的一個瑰寶那本席對於必要的預算原則上一定是支持的但每一筆預算都是人民的納稅錢"},{"start":6685.921,"end":6696.015,"text":"所以故宮有責把業務辦好那本席有責任要來監督預算這樣可以合理的來應用然後能夠實際的產生績效院長你同意嗎"},{"start":6702.632,"end":6714.835,"text":"非常謝謝委員的提醒跟鼓勵基本上來講 故宮會也繼續努力那有關上面的三項報告的話故宮會在一線裡面提供給委員委辦這邊來參考好 謝謝院長好 謝謝委員的質詢 謝謝下一位"},{"start":6732.401,"end":6734.144,"text":"我們邀請陳秀寶委員 謝謝謝主席 請蕭宗煌院長有請蕭院長"},{"start":6748.262,"end":6768.748,"text":"院長好院長故宮是我們台灣人的故宮也是全世界的故宮那館長的這些國寶不只是我們國人很珍視更是盛名在外那本席也相信說一直以來故宮不管是在館長的項目管理的機制人才培育策展辦展都是國際級的水準"},{"start":6769.528,"end":6780.106,"text":"但是常常故宮的交流都會被做成是某種政治的籌碼似乎故宮跟中國的交流已經成為統戰或者是政治的話題院長你有這樣的感覺嗎"},{"start":6783.712,"end":6807.305,"text":"大家都喜歡拿來做一個議題但基本上來講的話故宮博物院立足於台灣已經75年所以我們還是一步腳印然後在台灣這邊生根把這些五目之美給所有台灣的民眾跟全世界我想院長您這樣子的回答也是有這樣的感觸"},{"start":6808.766,"end":6836.342,"text":"本席認為說某些特定的政治人物或是中國的官方平民用兩岸故宮交流這個議題這個話題來討論兩岸友好民眾的觀感是很不以為然的其實交流的前提文化交流的前提除了說法規上的司法免扣壓機制之外平等跟尊重也是交流作為交流的前提這是最重要的基礎如果沒有這些基礎本席也覺得說交流就是假議題目的就是為了文化統戰"},{"start":6837.443,"end":6849.929,"text":"好 那我們不來討論這個中國假交流這個議題的話我們來講真正的文化交流目前故宮有文物前往其他國家展覽的規劃嗎有沒有預期是前往哪幾個國家"},{"start":6852.987,"end":6873.027,"text":"根文報告就是故宮在去年跟捷克交流然後跟法國交流之後事實上我們是有一些後續的計畫但後續的計畫的話就是多多少少都會有一些干擾那在在彼此合約還沒有預定然後還沒有"},{"start":6875.066,"end":6879.129,"text":"在討論的過程之中是不方便就這樣子公開這個訊息那院長這樣的回答表示就是說我們也正在進行一些相關就到國外參展的這些規劃"},{"start":6891.078,"end":6906.272,"text":"本席也希望說故宮可以持續進行國際交流因為這幾年其實故宮非常的努力那我們這幾場到國外就像捷克到法國都很受好評國際是非常的肯定所以希望故宮繼續努力讓台灣的故宮持續走進世界"},{"start":6907.593,"end":6918.581,"text":"院長我們再來討論一下關於說我們整個博物館的觀展的感受目前這個AI對話模式是很盛行的那故宮這邊有沒有考量開發所謂這樣子的AI對話的搜尋引擎"},{"start":6923.584,"end":6952.584,"text":"将我们馆藏文物啊资料故事及趣闻意识作为我们这个模型的这个资料库让每一位来故宫观展的人都可以有不同更符合他自身观展需求的体验那个伦敦博物馆有导入这个AI对话功能他把藏品故事历史及馆内研究资料都透过这个AI对话功能来取得相关的讯息而且是直接用聊天的方式要问问题然后就会有答案那而且"},{"start":6952.984,"end":6967.538,"text":"他们只使用伦敦博物馆里面可信的资料所以这个相关的回答是可以很准确很有深度也是很有效的提供民众他们去观赏的时候这个感受院长我们有没有这样的考量我们会不会这样规划"},{"start":6968.206,"end":6986.297,"text":"這當然是故宮未來的一個期待可是現在全世界的大部分博物館的話如果有這樣的功能的話也都是採取一個局部然後事辦的方式因為基本上來講的話像單用博物館那麼多產品的話沒有辦法完全做到"},{"start":6987.037,"end":7015.058,"text":"那以故宮來講的話我們也做了故宮AR的導覽在114年就今年10月正式上線那當然就是有12折的AR的導覽跟56折的影音導覽基本上來講的話它可以擴充實境基本上就是跟AI結合另外的話故宮的現在的數位展的話我們也都導入AI的模擬生成畫面的一個形式所以這個部分的話故宮持續在努力"},{"start":7015.819,"end":7045.519,"text":"那院長您也是認同說對這種新的科技新的技術要來跟我們博物館相關的這個觀展的這個需求做結合那其實您剛提到說有些博物館他們可能只能做局部其實建置資料庫是需要時間的當然不會說一觸可及那你今天要做明天就有成果出現那這個部分呢我也希望說既然院長您也覺得說這些相關的新興科技我們運用在這個提升觀展這個體驗呢是有需求的"},{"start":7045.919,"end":7070.704,"text":"那當然開發是需要時間但是我們故宮身為是國際級的博物館我們要提升相關的這些民眾觀展需求而且回應這些相關的新興科技在博物館的運用我希望說我們可以有更前瞻的規劃更積極的做法這個院長你們可以把它列入考量嗎是 我們有爭取額外的經費1700多萬在新興計畫裡面其實我們就是要來發展這部分"},{"start":7071.384,"end":7089.662,"text":"謝謝院長接下來我們來關心故宮的文創商品在這邊本席要先稱讚故宮的文創商品因為我的助理很喜歡買故宮的這些小文創他只要每次去故宮他們就會買很多很多買到他們自己的桌子都放不下還分享放到我的桌子上來院長您猜猜看他們最喜歡買什麼"},{"start":7090.987,"end":7119.422,"text":"就桌上擺的這些畫面擺的這些是正知道的還有他們好喜歡買磁鐵我的辦公室到處都是這種小磁鐵很可愛的磁鐵好我跟他講了我非常肯定故宮在文創商品的開發跟推廣近日非常爆紅這個斗篷羽衣民眾是非常非常熱烈的討論而且是買不到好像是已經斷貨了已經買不到了那像之前的這個紙膠還有像這個香膏就是螢幕上的這個產品民眾都非常非常的喜愛"},{"start":7120.242,"end":7138.837,"text":"但是雖然是這樣子我也會希望說我們故宮應該更靈活的來引進民間創意其實民間有很多相關文創的從業人員學生或是相關學系的教師他們有很多很新穎的這個想法跟構思如果我們可以將民間的這個構思成為實際的文創商品"},{"start":7140.638,"end":7162.558,"text":"讓民眾來參與相關商品的開發跟提案我希望說故宮這邊可以有更開放的想法我們是不是來辦理民間提案或是文創商品的設計比賽等等我們有更多民眾來參與我們故宮會有不同的能量而且文創商品其實是民眾對於故宮文物的理解認識以及他們的想像"},{"start":7164.16,"end":7190.362,"text":"故宮有跟那個文策院就是那個設計院他們去做一些所謂的合作開發那另外的話故宮原來的話就是在文創開發的時候我們要求的廠商的話比較有具有相當的規模其實現在我們也要開放個人工作室也可以來參與就希望鼓勵更多人來用故宮的IP來從事文創創作"},{"start":7191.323,"end":7212.59,"text":"那本席剛剛的建議是說我們是不是可以開放給學生啊相關的從業人員啊相關學系的教師他們來投稿他們也可以來參加我們的文創設計比賽我們有一個這樣子比較開放的一個這樣的空間給這些相關關心對因為其實他們去參加設計院的一個計畫就可以了就是說故宮並沒有"},{"start":7213.57,"end":7240.77,"text":"原來故宮是自己辦設計競賽但是後來的話我們就是跟業界合作由他們去辦理因為故宮的業務太多了不能什麼東西都自己辦了解也礙於說我們的人力和可能相關的處理量能那所以說現在是有一個這樣子的機制讓民眾去參與那我也會希望說我們讓民眾我剛提到就是說我們更多的民眾的參與我們故宮才有不同的能量進來那"},{"start":7242.171,"end":7260.647,"text":"相關相較於說民眾他們只是去參觀他們如果有設計有相關的構思進來他們也會覺得說我們跟文物是更接近的那也希望說日後呢能夠開放更多的機會讓民眾能夠有機會來展現他們對文物的理解"},{"start":7261.167,"end":7278.955,"text":"對文物的基本上故宮我們的opendata41萬筆的文物的這些資料都是可以自由讓民眾來使用他們去做應用不收費然後也不用經過故宮的允許只要註明說這個IP是故宮提供就可以了"},{"start":7279.397,"end":7301.267,"text":"好 謝謝院長我這邊再提一下最近台北市有很嚴重的鼠患問題公園學校都有老鼠的蹤跡我們故宮有致善園跟致德園因為這是民眾跟遊客都會前往的綠地我們之前也管理得非常好大家都非常喜歡去這邊目前這邊有沒有這樣子相關的鼠患的問題出現"},{"start":7303.748,"end":7321.762,"text":"顧宮,基本上我有問過同仁,所謂的老鼠、蛇,基本上來講,顧宮因為它接近自然的區域,山區的話,基本上是有可是在縣區裡面,基本上來講,就是不可能進到縣,不可能進到室內那另外的話,南縣的話"},{"start":7325.725,"end":7341.322,"text":"因為我們都有管理人在管理基本上來講很少見不能說沒有見到蛇但是老鼠我問過他們說老鼠蜘蛛好像有可是南苑的話的確有因為南苑的話是在台塘的土地周邊所以有田土"},{"start":7341.863,"end":7368.8,"text":"田鼠但是因為故宮並不是在一個餐廳密集或是說會激烈密集的地方所以基本上來講的話有老鼠它會去台北市下水道它不會跑來故宮對不對跑來故宮的話它也不會進到故宮的館裡面因為裡面沒有東西可以吃這邊還是要提醒啦因為既然說現在整個台北市在鼠患這個問題非常的焦慮的話我也希望說故宮在環境衛生這個部分是 我們會加強注意好 謝謝院長 謝謝"},{"start":7372.705,"end":7384.592,"text":"好謝謝委員的詢答下一位吳思耀委員院長好有請院長"},{"start":7391.123,"end":7410.495,"text":"兩年的空窗可以回到教育文化委員會持續追蹤我過去關心的議題我真的看到故宮更在地也更國際了這是我從2016年以在的倡議我想像中的故宮就是要朝全民的故宮open to public"},{"start":7411.295,"end":7427.018,"text":"資源跟全民共享它應當是創新的故宮可以啟動更多的跨域合作不管是在策展的呈現或者是服務上的體驗它更應當是更在地有台灣思維的台灣的故宮"},{"start":7427.779,"end":7442.148,"text":"当然让故宫的珍贵文物让世界看见世界的故宫是我们远大的目标这四项我还是要再一次来提醒夏业而对应于我们等了千呼万唤使出来"},{"start":7443.149,"end":7465.819,"text":"拖了很久的国家博物馆政策白皮书去年终于端出了那我对应于博物馆政策白皮书里头的对于新时代博物馆的一些挑战也要在这里提出来大家一起来共勉当然第一个现在的博物馆是不只过去由内而外现在强调由外而内"},{"start":7466.559,"end":7481.623,"text":"不再是由上而下權威的專業機構他應當是由下而上的一個全民知識共享的多元體驗就是第一個博物館的翻轉第二個博物館也要因應時代在變遷的"},{"start":7483.684,"end":7508.874,"text":"相對應的新的議題去適時的發掘它提出新的觀點白話文就是社會變遷之下的博物館要更入世要承擔社會責任我想這兩端我都看到故宮的改變而第三端未來有時間我們再來討論您過去也在文化部服務過是不是有修法的需要把"},{"start":7509.898,"end":7535.424,"text":"博物館爭取外部資源的支持包括財務的本身來擴大法規的鬆綁來影響國際的一些成功的案例這些部分我再一次肯定我看到故宮都有在改變都有在成長了下一頁首先來看看國際的故宮這一端世界的故宮這一端我們去年的六黨國際合作展真的都很棒下一頁"},{"start":7536.104,"end":7560.589,"text":"尤其我們走出台灣到歐洲對跟外交部的歐洲台灣文化年來攜手捷克的這一檔展覽有將近34萬參觀人次這幾乎會比在台灣的展覽的人次更多嘛對不對這個成績非常不容易大都會展的時候是多少參訪人次在台灣"},{"start":7565.292,"end":7591.625,"text":"28所以看看国际的人士我们把文物带到欧洲去在捷克受到了34万的国际观光客的喜好当然我们前进了巴黎这个布兰尼博物馆也这个龙这个展览也有14万我觉得都非常好那今年还是有国际持续合作的计划吗对不对但规模没有像去年那么大对"},{"start":7593.277,"end":7619.625,"text":"今年的話就是我們在盤整之中好沒關係持續來做好嗎下一頁那全民的故宮台灣的故宮這一端我要提醒喔時間不夠多我沒有辦法論述的很深喔現在大學的社會責任計畫跟故宮合作的我查到的資料有東吳大學世新大學跟中正大學那個院長這裡有掌握嗎"},{"start":7621.684,"end":7643.34,"text":"跟大学院教的合作MOU的话我们几乎应该是我说的不是MOU是USR大学教育部有给补助的让大学的研究团队带着学生走出去我想这个部分我抛出来后续有时间再跟您讨论我希望故宫能够多主动跟大学来合作"},{"start":7644.261,"end":7659.809,"text":"我上一周帶著三個大學的團隊到北投有實踐大學的設計學院有在地的台北藝術大學也有在地的台北市立大學當我跟他們提到如果有機會跟故宮來合作USR計畫他們有沒有意願三個學校的校長院長都告訴我"},{"start":7666.852,"end":7695.081,"text":"因為他們都是藝術相關學門設計相關學門他們都非常期待所以在這裡是不是可以請故宮未來化被動為主動當然學校來提案我們可以多多open讓大家一起來合作跟參與但是我一直希望我們也可以把故宮要解決的問題我們要迎向全民更開放的故宮我們也可以主動拋球主動跟大學合作這個部長是不是可以承諾加強來推進"},{"start":7696.261,"end":7716.542,"text":"這個沒有問題,但是故宮著重的是實際上的合作,因為簽個MOU的話基本上來講打個卡沒有意義院長,USR就不是簽MOU,好嗎?大學的社會責任計畫就不是過去跟大學簽MOU的那種合作,它是要融入課程"},{"start":7717.463,"end":7743.326,"text":"是要融入课程跟青年接轨所以您如果也认为要合作就要深化那USR就是最好的机会下一页那今年的预算审议当中我也看到我们2027年就要完工的这个南院的这个修复中心它太重要了同样的这个议题我们在产学合作端在修复人力的培植上"},{"start":7744.227,"end":7768.262,"text":"南苑的修復中心現在跟幾所南藝大雲科大政修科大的一些藝文修復文資維護或是博物館考古的學系是不是有足夠的合作基本上這個資料的話是南苑的但是實際上北苑的話我們也跟那個台師大他也是修復上面也有合作所以不只這三個還有起碼還有台師大"},{"start":7768.982,"end":7779.117,"text":"好那现在这几个大学合作了哪些内容在会后提供给本席好吗好时间到了最后一个我们来先看看这个跳过跳过"},{"start":7780.389,"end":7800.264,"text":"這個我先拋出來審預算的時候再就交於您故宮文物藝術發展基金107年還有1.5億112年就銳減剩1200萬這連續這三年剛好思瑤沒有在教育文化委員會居然就是沒有編了所以故宮暫時沒有任何構藏的需求嗎"},{"start":7801.905,"end":7824.835,"text":"跟委員報告 因為故宮文物基金是很多啦 我們自己的文物很多啦不是 是有賺錢的時候 有營餘的時候才有預算可以編但是因為在疫情期限的話 我們沒有營餘 我們還要截角隔固113 114 115也過了疫情了幾年啦 那你今年 那你明年要不要編現在在編明年的概算 現在"},{"start":7825.615,"end":7838.16,"text":"明年還是不變 對不起跟委員報告一下就是我現在以整測文物跟那個把過去寄存跟監證的去做審議把這個工作告一段落"},{"start":7840.066,"end":7854.391,"text":"在外面拍賣市場上那個紋路等級跟故宮一樣或是比故宮好的我買不起可是如果跟故宮一樣的等級的話我根本不需要買所以我要講的不是只是故宮"},{"start":7856.091,"end":7869.826,"text":"過去我們跟著吳密茶院長研究了很久我們希望故宮帶頭來成立國家的文化藝術收藏隊建構國家的購藏基金下一頁這也符合當時的博物館全國論壇"},{"start":7871.708,"end":7885.267,"text":"專家學者所倡議的建立國家典藏制度跟共享機制在典藏端這也配合賴清德總統當時的政見博物館在升級裡頭對於各館所的專業資源共享合作在構藏這一端我認為"},{"start":7888.07,"end":7911.864,"text":"當故宮在看待購藏基金的編列與否的時候其實是不要忘了故宮可以成為全台灣博物館的龍頭就像您講的如果像故宮等級的文物我們自己編錢在世界買不到那其他的美術館博物館更是如此所以才會有一個國家的購藏基金的這一個破的概念故宮來帶頭未來的跟國際來"},{"start":7915.966,"end":7932.452,"text":"購藏典藏的是足夠被台灣一起博物館共享的資源我要說的是這一端我們後續再討論好嗎我覺得這個部分在觀念上需要交流有關建立國家典藏制度就是說聯合庫房或是文物修復"},{"start":7934.913,"end":7958.423,"text":"這個基本上來講的話我在國際文化部的時候我都是蠻支持的是那購藏基金就一直沒有因為購藏基金的話如果要拿故宮的文物購藏基金去分給所有的博物館的話不是去分大家一起分享至少我看到你編0我就認為這些事情就完全不可能就完全不可能這件事情我們後續再討論好嗎時間到了謝謝您謝謝大家謝謝委員"},{"start":7964.414,"end":7989.167,"text":"好 謝謝我們現在要休息好 院長可以了那我們體恤委員那我們請羅志祥委員先發言 尋答謝謝院長那我們待會就休息五分鐘讓大家可以上一下廁所"},{"start":7994.878,"end":8010.593,"text":"在AI走入我們生活各層面那所扮演的角色也越來越吃重的事實那我想請教院長全世界的博物館都在發展AI應用的時候我們國立故宮博物院做了哪些努力有什麼具體的成績"},{"start":8012.921,"end":8031.263,"text":"基本上來講的話故宮在AI的應用方面的話最直接的話就是故宮的數位展覽數位展覽的話以這一次譬如說在大阪市博上面的那個城市印象的話基本上來講的話就是故宮參與跟工研院協助的"},{"start":8032.644,"end":8048.352,"text":"另外的話,我們也提供了國際文化記憶庫TED,TED的一個計畫裡面有6萬多筆的資料,也是提出來給公共使用。"},{"start":8049.873,"end":8069.872,"text":"那根據故宮的業務報告跟年度計畫那我有看到其實也有不少AI跟數位科技成果像剛剛院長提到在大阪的世博會展出的然後以及故宮跟公文園醫院共同打造的AI藝廊程式畫卷那也有包括全新的AI導覽服務"},{"start":8072.054,"end":8096.151,"text":"那這些我覺得基本上這些努力本席是肯定的那另外就是像打造AI智慧博物館共構數位寒龍生態計畫是新增的計畫那115年到119年總經費是1億6千萬那分為智慧展示體驗然後智慧典藏治理然後智慧創新"},{"start":8096.972,"end":8113.208,"text":"教推三個計畫可不可以淺顯的告訴大家這計畫對於故宮文物的展覽典藏有什麼幫助其中提到的AI智慧展示廳博物館智慧對話系統服務有沒有什麼不一樣的對民眾有什麼不一樣的觀展體驗"},{"start":8114.829,"end":8130.094,"text":"跟委員報告因為數位的計畫過去的話故宮的數位執行處被定位一個行政協力單位但是事實上故宮的數位執行處在新的展示計畫上面"},{"start":8131.714,"end":8159.486,"text":"包括文物的應用上面基本上來講是蠻吃重的所以我們希望額外的經費因為原來的預算規模是已經沒有辦法編列所以我們就是去爭取額度來的經費來支持那這個部分的話當然包括展覽包括庫房管理包括退房交易有三個區塊那每個區塊的話大概都是八千八百多萬左右好"},{"start":8160.646,"end":8174.739,"text":"另外我想下一個問題想請教一下那個院長那去年是故宮的百年願慶那故宮為誰舉辦百年願慶的特展我想請教百年願慶的百年是怎麼算的"},{"start":8176.499,"end":8202.394,"text":"百年宴慶當然是1925年就是北京故宮成為一個公共博物館開始來算是民國13年北洋政府馮玉祥將末代的皇帝溥儀逐書紙進城那到了民國14年10月10號所以故宮博物院正式成立並對外開放那皇室的珍寶成為全民共享的博物館文物所以是從那個時間點開始的對不對那"},{"start":8205.376,"end":8225.693,"text":"去年是故宮成立百年也是故宮文物從民國39年在台中霧峰北溝庫房入庫保存滿的75年那故宮成立百年文物自中國大陸遷台入庫75年那這一段歷史跟記憶是不是也值得紀念跟回顧"},{"start":8228.266,"end":8247.187,"text":"当然但是故宫博物院的话我们在网站资料跟我们的那个大司机会编里面我们都会都有这一部分但是在展览上面的话我们当然着重在文物上面的精彩的展览并没有去做所谓的历史性的展览"},{"start":8247.808,"end":8272.453,"text":"我覺得院長就是不管怎麼樣說故宮的百年我覺得您的回答可以更直接一點這一百年的歷史然後天台陸庫的75年的歷史它本來就是一個歷史的印記那對故宮來說這個單位來說的話那當然應該要有紀念跟回顧那我覺得這可以正面回答"},{"start":8272.913,"end":8300.393,"text":"那去年這個故宮的百年願慶那同樣北京故宮的百年他們也辦百年願慶嘛那北京故宮舉辦的是故宮文物南遷紀念展那媒體本來報導說這項紀念展是兩岸合作那梳理故宮文物的一些歷史的過程那我看故宮去年有說那不是兩岸合辦的嘛不是兩岸故宮合辦的嘛對不對"},{"start":8301.033,"end":8328.762,"text":"那是台灣的一個民間社團跟大陸那邊合辦的那這是當然啦現在兩岸之間尤其這個新政府上來就是民進黨政府上來之後當然兩岸之間有一些變化可是其實我覺得故宮還是可以從歷史的角度去思考比方說舉個例子過去兩岸之間還是故宮還是有很多的一些專業的交流嘛對不對"},{"start":8330.408,"end":8349.606,"text":"的確現在學術的交流一直都還在進行當中我講的是不只是學術的交流啦包括展覽啦包括所謂實體的交流我舉個例子2009年故宮舉辦的雍正清世宗文物大展當時北京故宮就初屆37件的文物來台"},{"start":8352.308,"end":8366.353,"text":"2011年慶祝建國百年故宮舉辦康熙大帝與太陽王路易十四特展除了83件院長文物也跟法國羅浮宮、吉美博物館、法爾賽宮等18家博物館屆展"},{"start":8367.773,"end":8392.426,"text":"當時北京故宮也借出了20件文物那2013年2015年都有一些活動舉辦那當然也有你講的是一些學術性的比方說09年10年11年13年15年兩岸故宮也會輪流舉辦學術研討會那我是要提醒的一件事情就是說雖然故宮它作為一個博物館的一個專業單位"},{"start":8394.187,"end":8422.373,"text":"那它的整個的歷史的原脈它其實跟兩岸之間因為兩邊都有所謂的故宮的文物嘛那過去也有交流的傳統那我覺得努力找出一個空間降低政治性能夠讓兩岸的故宮都多一些交流那我不知道院長覺得有可能嗎我想跟全世界的所有的專業博物館進行交流的話故宮都樂觀其成好 謝謝"},{"start":8426.82,"end":8428.191,"text":"好 休息五分鐘"},{"start":8460.12,"end":8460.14,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":8739.071,"end":8755.336,"text":"現在繼續開會請吳佩玉委員進行詢問謝謝主席我請國立故宮博物院肖宗煌院長有請院長"},{"start":8761.307,"end":8787.074,"text":"院長好我們今天終於要開始進行故宮業務報告的還有預算的詢答那麼在這個進入預算跟計畫相關的討論之前呢因為最近有一個時事所以我必須要跟院長你來請教就是國民黨主席鄭麗文主席她上個月有到中國去交流參加習政會那在交流的期間呢這個她也跟北京的市委書記尹麗來會面"},{"start":8789.395,"end":8817.864,"text":"在這個會面裡面公開的來提到說就是鄭主席他認為去年故宮的百年願慶那台北跟北京沒有共同舉辦活動他個人覺得相當的遺憾那他也表達說如果未來國民黨重新執政之後他一定要來去恢復故宮的密切交流那麼交流其實不是問題那我們擔心的是說這個交流的前提一定要必須要是對等以及尊嚴的"},{"start":8818.644,"end":8841.721,"text":"因為過去呢中國有多次的來表達包括說這個故宮是叫做一宮兩院甚至認為我們台灣的故宮的文物未來都終究是要回歸中國祖國那麼甚至說台灣的國立故宮博物院的國立兩個字必須要拿掉"},{"start":8843.018,"end":8849.716,"text":"把我們矮化成是台北故宮對這方面中國過去的言論院長你有什麼樣的看法"},{"start":8853.112,"end":8876.919,"text":"兩岸故宮存在的事實就跟兩岸存在的事實是一樣的那當然對於兩岸故宮的交流其實相較於其他的交流也是一樣因為左院長有講就是健康有序然後對等尊嚴基本上來講的話故宮是行政院屬下的一個單位"},{"start":8877.779,"end":8903.981,"text":"所以我們所有的動作的話都會配合整個行政院的政策然後依照兩岸關係條例來進行是因為故宮博物院是行政機關所以其實就像過去滿久總統執政時期的陸委會當時也都認為說我們絕對是要使用國立故宮博物院我們用這樣的正式名稱可以來跟中國交流"},{"start":8904.661,"end":8927.289,"text":"臺灣我們是絕對不接受中國所謂一公兩院這樣的說法我認為未來如果要進行交流這個是我們的底線那事實上我們也認為政治歸政治藝術歸藝術不要說因為政治方面的原因要交流的時候必須要我們要去改名才能夠交流這樣就不叫做對等跟尊嚴的前提在這裡必須要來提醒院長"},{"start":8928.089,"end":8942.979,"text":"那接下來要跟院長討論的是呢是在我們的這個故宮我們現在的售票我們有電子售票也有櫃台的人工售票那我們立法院的預算中心有拿了一些數字出來來討論就是認為說我們的這個電子售票因為你們111年度的時候其實剛上線啦當時的表現其實"},{"start":8951.184,"end":8970.051,"text":"相當的不錯就是電子收票是超過4成的那112年有稍微下降到3成113年又降到了不到3成是28%但是我看了去年其實我們電子收票的這個數字比例又有上升回來到超過4成這個是在北院"},{"start":8970.731,"end":8990.421,"text":"但是南院就電子售票的比例就一直比較低111跟112年的時候我們的自動售票比例都是3%到5%那到113年的時候有提高到了一成那麼去年呢也有成長跟進步來到了三成"},{"start":8991.562,"end":9016.68,"text":"那你們其實故宮是有注意到這個狀況的所以你們有對民眾在這個購票的時候你們有進行一個調查那裡面我看到的是就是北院的觀眾他為什麼沒有使用電子售票呢民眾的表達和自述主要原因是第一個他沒有看到第二個是他不知道有電子售票所以看起來我們在推廣上面是還有成長跟進步的空間的"},{"start":9017.461,"end":9035.737,"text":"我們故宮有沒有做這方面就是怎麼樣去提高電子售票的比例有去做過評估跟討論呢電子售票跟企業有關因為北部當然比較習慣多一點人用電子售票那南沿的話基本上還是習慣人跟人的接觸"},{"start":9036.738,"end":9065.346,"text":"那至於那個電子售票的校長的話也會看就是說如果他的現場售票的時候沒有排隊的話他就會去現場因為這是我們國人的習慣就人跟人的接觸可是如果說大展排隊比較多的時候因為有排隊他就會跑去電子售票那南岩的確就南岩的電子售票機現在的比例比較低因為那個電子售票機是由廠商提供的由廠商抽成"},{"start":9065.686,"end":9081.596,"text":"如果售票比例沒有那麼高的話廠商安裝那麼多的話基本上他會認為說他機器放在那邊的話使用率低所以這是有點互相的雞生丹蛋生雞的關係這個電子售票機台以外另外現在其實也有線上購票平台"},{"start":9082.436,"end":9092.828,"text":"現在數量更低看起來更低了所以這個部分希望我們附中能夠再持續的來去推廣那最後一點是想要快速的來提醒院長因為過去在這裡我們也質詢過疫情之後呢現在韓國旅客已經成為我們"},{"start":9097.353,"end":9116.413,"text":"外国客群的主力了但是我们过去就连在2023年举办韩国愿的时候当时是没有韩语导览的那时候院长有说就是来这个报名韩语导览员人数就是没有但是我们现在好不容易终于有一位已经破蛋了但是呢我们在北院的这个外语导览现在是无中语言啦"},{"start":9116.693,"end":9139.581,"text":"未來再去提升就從英文以外其他語言的這個外語導覽人力我們有沒有持續再去努力呢就是韓語的部分基本上是一個很大的問題因為韓語的話我們最近也找了那個文化大學跟那個政治大學來討論就是說他們有韓文科系因為他們說他們的學生就算可以導覽的話他們也願意去受聘"},{"start":9140.501,"end":9161.409,"text":"去擔任那個旅行社的導覽因為這樣他可以賺錢但是故宮的導覽的話是志工所以志工沒有賺錢他說就算培養出來的話他也會去旅行團那我就說我臨演都沒有關係但是起碼以現在來講的話他成為一個生態就是韓國的團客的話他都自帶"},{"start":9162.449,"end":9175.22,"text":"自己的那個導覽員當然導覽的話不像故宮的專業的導覽那個樣子也許是可是我們現在就是要跟他們簽MOU就是繼續培養就是韓文的導覽人員"},{"start":9176.266,"end":9204.351,"text":"是 國際化一定是我們故宮要持續努力的方向啦那麼南院 故宮南院目前的外語導覽也只有英文一種我想是一定要持續來加強這個部分南院有英文 有日文是 英文跟日文那其他的語種也希望可以持續來增加這個部分希望故宮可以繼續來努力好不好是好 謝謝院長 謝謝主席好 謝謝委員的詢問下一位有請武利華委員"},{"start":9214.009,"end":9239.263,"text":"謝謝主席 有請院長好 吳仁好院長好其實每次來質詢故宮我都會特別就原住民的視角來看看國立故宮博物院能夠在原住民族的文化方面能不能夠有一些主體的納入那最主要就是因為我們看到"},{"start":9240.163,"end":9259.444,"text":"故宮博物院它收藏的就是中國歷代王朝的文物那它代表的可能是中原政權的一個視角但是我們也看到這幾年有一些改變舉個例子來講像在台博館2022年有一個原名漢人官府的交織物語"},{"start":9260.245,"end":9287.75,"text":"院長您應該知道對不對這個就很有意思啊就是故宮拿出這些中國宮廷的寶物那台博館呢就拿出原住民的文物台史博呢就拿出漢人藏民的文物然後就一些做對話做詮釋像是餐桌的文化煙具的一個使用等等我就覺得這個展蠻有意思那去年在高美館"},{"start":9288.61,"end":9303.26,"text":"我看到您也有參加 我也有參加有一個福祿文化基金會辦的就是布萊原名之藥那在這個當中我看到您也有出席不曉得在那個展故宮有扮演什麼樣的一個角色"},{"start":9305.33,"end":9328.005,"text":"這個展覽的話原來李沙莉老師她是有跟故宮洽談但是因為故宮那時候的黨旗的關係沒有辦法配合所以後來的話她就去高美館當然她也想過故宮來因為可是因為我們的黨旗都是兩年前就訂了可是她沒有辦法再調整那個時間所以就錯過了"},{"start":9328.806,"end":9356.781,"text":"所以在原民治藥這個展故宮原本是希望能夠合作提供策展的場館是不是那我其實不論是從過去關心雖然故宮有邀請偏鄉的學生能夠來遊故宮遊南苑但是我常常說我們一定要有一個詮釋的角度我們不可以讓其他的孩子進來之後感受到的只是"},{"start":9357.381,"end":9385.408,"text":"好像是文化的優劣事實上文化只有差異並沒有優劣所以這個詮釋的角度我一直提醒故宮要注意那又或者是說故宮有所謂的有巨箱這個所謂的移動博物館叫巨箱然後帶到64所的偏鄉學校但是我們也會希望說將這種缺乏原住民史觀的一個融入我一直就是在強調這個我不曉得"},{"start":9387.108,"end":9412.774,"text":"院長這個部分你們真的有沒有開始討論有沒有做出一些改變在故宮南苑的話我們有一個織品的長色展織品的長色展換展的部分以目前來講的話固定就是每一個檔次都會有原住民的織品跟相關的文物基本上來講的話我們在南苑已經開始有這樣的一個做法"},{"start":9414.674,"end":9439.477,"text":"那當然沒有錯因為故宮博物院的話長期以來就是以華相文為主體所以在顏仲明的這一塊的話的確我們並沒有特別的專家寫著就說文史方面有但是在展覽推廣教育上面來講的話我們並沒有特別有太多的琢磨這是事實那院長因為我就是不斷的透過質詢在反映我也希望你能夠把這個"},{"start":9440.658,"end":9455.279,"text":"真正的在討論當中能夠提醒大家因為故宮確實它作為一個二級的博物館二級機關它是代表著國家如何選擇展示的文化正統"},{"start":9456.4,"end":9477.128,"text":"所以我們一直很在意在我們這片土地上的族群能不能夠在這個體系裡面被呈現那我在這裡就是要特別的提醒因為像我們看到有一個計畫叫博物館群國際觀光網路系統建置計畫它是107到116的計畫期程那計畫的分項計畫總經費是9.6億"},{"start":9484.23,"end":9509.577,"text":"那你們是選擇跟教育部還有文化部轄下的20多間的三級機關的國力管所同步推出這個聯合行銷專案但是除了教育部文化部底下我們也有一個園民會底下的30間文化館那院長我是希望說不要忘記園民會下的30間文化館"},{"start":9510.997,"end":9521.109,"text":"現在是115年中然後明年116執行完畢院長我請教你 你有沒有辦法把園民會下面的三十間地方的原住民文化館納進去"},{"start":9524.35,"end":9544.828,"text":"原住民地方文化館其實是我在台北館館長任內跟著原民就是馬家文化園區就跟他們整個共同還有李沙莉老師共同去協助去輔導他們那當然我很希望說可以把他們納進去那以故宮博園來講的話就是說"},{"start":9546.71,"end":9566.222,"text":"我沒有辦法承諾說20間納進去因為這樣只是一個口頭的說法因為故宮的資源有限至少開始可以嗎可以我們可以跟那個比如說我們現在是跟客委會的客家文化中心合作那未來的話我們可以跟演藝中心合作即將要成立的園村博物館合作謝謝院長我很高興聽到您這麼說因為我一直覺得"},{"start":9570.524,"end":9593.906,"text":"即便故宮它有它很特殊的文物的角色但是我覺得這不是對立而是不同文化的一種互補那我們知道在你們有一個歷史學門很核心的期刊叫故宮學術記刊這個在人文社會領域是非常重要的一個學術發表的一個平台"},{"start":9594.867,"end":9610.889,"text":"我就会觉得说故宫作为一个被建立的国家记忆跟我们这些真实存在的土地记忆那有没有可能去透过文化的对话像原住民或者是史前我们都有狱的文化"},{"start":9611.73,"end":9633.789,"text":"那能不能夠透過這樣的對話去展現在我們這麼重要的一個故宮學術紀刊裡面那原住民雖然文物不是原住民但是有沒有可能原住民參與策展我覺得這樣子就是在重新定義國寶的範圍我不曉得院長您有沒有這樣的一個想法願意納入"},{"start":9635.375,"end":9660.368,"text":"基本上來講故宮包括故宮文物業刊或是故宮學術集刊我們都是開放性的投稿那當然故宮在歷史學門上面的話其實我們有一些研究人員的話他們是具有原住民的一個背景跟專長不是考古但是是整個大歷史所以這一塊的話我們最近的壽田出版上面的話也都有談論到有關原住民"},{"start":9661.428,"end":9679.618,"text":"主請文化的部分所以故宮基本上來講的話是開放的我們也歡迎更多的原住民相關的議題進入到故宮的一個領域我想院長的這段回應我會播放給更多的人一同的來參與謝謝院長那最後就是我知道"},{"start":9680.538,"end":9700.996,"text":"故宮也很標榜說自己呢是國際間非常受歡迎國際間積極爭取合作交流的對象那這很好因為我們藉由赴國外去辦理這種指標性的國際展也可以拓展我們的國際交流活動所以在這個地方"},{"start":9701.516,"end":9722.632,"text":"我本席也希望說台灣原住民族能夠因為世界的故宮能夠被看見那因為每次故宮出去的時候我們也知道有一些故宮文物還不具文資身份不曉得說院長就是故宮的這些文物大概有多少比例是具備文資身份"},{"start":9725.338,"end":9751.955,"text":"在故宮的暫行文物分級裡面基本上來講的話都具備文職身份就是目前來講的話故宮有國寶四萬八千多件然後中央股一萬七千多件其他暫行分級的話是一般股物所以基本上來講的話它都具有暫定的文職身份那另外的話跟委員報告這一次我們跟華國KBHKB博物館"},{"start":9753.816,"end":9775.43,"text":"合作展覽之後結束之後凱布朗尼館長有到台灣來所以我們有請他去那個屏東美術館所以他們在年底或是明年初會辦一個雕塑展就是包括台灣的台灣族的文物那另外的話就是我也安排他去蘭嶼因為他也希望說辦理一個蘭嶼的展覽在他們館裡面"},{"start":9776.531,"end":9798.356,"text":"所以故宮希望自己成為一個領頭羊就是說我們雖然從事文化交流交流結束之後並不是斷了而是把這樣的資源讓台灣的更多的博物館可以繼續延續這樣的一個情況就像我們去捷克國家博物館展覽之後現在一大堆的捷克的展覽在台灣發生我想這是一個領頭羊的一個工作"},{"start":9799.136,"end":9825.078,"text":"所以這個就是我本席希望的就是我們可以因著世界的故宮那臺灣原住民族也能夠被看見那謝謝院長在這方面所做的努力我們也期待未來這樣的一個成果能夠遍地開花那在這邊謝謝院長也謝謝主席好 謝謝委員的指導 謝謝好 謝謝吳立華召委的巡檔"},{"start":9829.383,"end":9839.138,"text":"應該不用了謝謝 謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝你 感恩我們下一位有請 院支委員"},{"start":9862.194,"end":9886.81,"text":"主席好 麻煩請那個故宮院長有請院長委員好院長好 其實我們之前其實諮詢蠻多次我就是希望說在我們這個國旅蕭條之際故宮可以扮演一個很關鍵角色因為故宮是非常有特色的就像大家去法國會去羅浮宮然後去英國會去他們的"},{"start":9889.195,"end":9912.695,"text":"我們其實在台灣故宮就是一個很有號召力的你看其他博物館或其他相關的相關跟你們同性質的館都不用一直來備詢就只有你要一直來代表大家對於故宮的重視可是我們實際上從很多數據看起來就是故宮不僅沒有扮演這種讓外國觀光客來台的火車頭的這個"},{"start":9916.05,"end":9937.076,"text":"反而是很多外國觀光客來台灣他們到故宮的比例越來越下降那我今天就想要來跟院長討論一下這個話題那我們先來看數據108年是因為那時候疫情疫情前你可以看到來台灣的旅客總數是1186萬人那"},{"start":9950.339,"end":9961.345,"text":"309.6萬等於是說如果來算的話每四個人就會有一個人是去故宮可是到了113年大概我們換算結果是每八個外國人只有一個去故宮"},{"start":9962.678,"end":9973.005,"text":"換言之我最新的資料其實也差不多還有下滑的趨勢就是更多外國人大概只有一個人到故宮那我不知道院長你有沒有注意到這個現象"},{"start":9976.906,"end":9999.4,"text":"呃的確齁就是在疫情之前109年之前的話就是這個數據是是我要再查一下但是是有可能的因為那時候那時候是有入客所以基本上來講的話那個外籍的因為入客算外籍的話他比例比較高但是疫情之後的話如果沒有進來的話的確齁就是好那因為呢"},{"start":10002.162,"end":10009.271,"text":"你的判斷是說因為入客影響那我們來看一下是不是真的是入客影響我們去看日本韓國跟東南亞的數據那實際上在108年以前日本的觀光客"},{"start":10017.145,"end":10036.413,"text":"然後到故宮大概是五十三萬四千零八十二人可是到了一百一十三年就是疫情之後剩三十萬九千四百四十六然後一百一十四年八月因為我們看到的統計資料是統計到八月只有十七萬五千多人韓國也是呈現下滑的狀態"},{"start":10037.373,"end":10060.943,"text":"那東南亞下滑的更是嚴重我們政府現在一直在推說陸客沒來就新南向啊所以可以東南亞可是你看東南亞的人數的下滑比例很高108年的時候是25萬2261人但到了113年他剩下10萬然後到了去年8月截止是6萬2778換言之啊"},{"start":10064.505,"end":10088.112,"text":"它不是陸客的單純的陸客問題而言它是全面性的下滑日本韓國現在已經是故宮的主要的外籍觀光客的來源了可是它也是下滑那東南亞更下滑的更嚴重今天我們就來看一下東南亞為什麼特別把東南亞挑出來呢因為政府一直說陸客沒來沒關係我們有新南向政策可是之前已經很多人都在講說東南亞沒有辦法取代陸客因為東南亞"},{"start":10089.873,"end":10106.124,"text":"第一個他來台的停留時間比較短嘛第二個他的消費力也沒有陸客來得強那現在是連陸客連來都不來齁我特別去看了一些這我給大家給那個院長建議啦你可以來看一下齁我特別去看了一些東南亞他們"},{"start":10107.265,"end":10131.31,"text":"自由行交流的網站比如說我們看越南的這個網站有一個越南最大的自助旅遊社團它裡面有超過61萬成員那裡面有人是怎麼講的呢我們看 有人放BET幫我按一下好不好按BET在哪裡往下按好不好上面一頁"},{"start":10134.132,"end":10151.739,"text":"上面一頁下面一頁他說什麼呢他說故宮真的超級擠特別是翠玉白菜和肉形石區域排隊三十分鐘只為了看幾秒鐘然後就被工作人員催促走開那如果你對歷史沒有熱情你就不要去了這是越南人分享的"},{"start":10152.259,"end":10179.81,"text":"然後我們來看一下就不用個別回啦因為有的也有可能是個別的感受等一下院長就直接一併回你講有則改之啦沒有的話就沒有的話你就看還能不能精進那泰國有一個最大的自助旅遊社團成員是超過50萬人他說保全人員很嚴格啦看起來不友善隨時都在禁止這個禁止那個然後另外交通的部分從士林站過去交通很麻煩特別是要在大熱天下等很久然後另外"},{"start":10180.97,"end":10206.063,"text":"有那個英語系的社團來新加坡馬來西亞飛一兵的他說這個博物館感覺過時冷氣像冷凍庫一樣冷但展場卻吵得像菜市場保全一直對人家喊不准拍照那對於只想拍一張建築留念的人來說是非常的煩好那這也有可能是個別感受你不用一一回應可是呢我們有去統計了一下比較多人抱怨的部分比如說下一頁交通"},{"start":10208.104,"end":10228.337,"text":"如果是要東南亞自由行的話,遊客最常抱怨的一點雖然有一個公車,可是對於公車系統不熟悉的遊客是一個障礙甚至於覺得從四雲站出來要等很久的公車比起101或西門町這種捷運直達地方,故宮的交通對外國人不友善再來下一頁"},{"start":10231.219,"end":10247.873,"text":"參觀體驗不好啦剛剛有提到剛剛有提到說比如說有吵雜聲即便有耳機導覽但是呢旅遊團交談跟領隊的邀貨仍然像博物館一樣像傳統市場或排隊排隊就是要看白菜或肉侵食要等很久然後另外呢這個"},{"start":10249.571,"end":10265.969,"text":"互動不足譬如說文字生硬即便你有一些東南亞的翻譯像越南語或者是泰國語的翻譯可是內容很學術啦所以有一些遊客他比較不懂文物的背景然後還有一個重點就是因為現代人都很喜歡拍照嘛當然我知道"},{"start":10266.529,"end":10285.475,"text":"不拍照是為了保護文物這個我都支持因為有可能閃光燈會影響到文物的保存等等或者是有一些不應該拍照的禁令OK的不過有沒有可能去思考一下既然遊客來他們希望能夠留念一下那也可以設置可以讓他們打卡或拍照的專區這是可以考慮的狀況總而言之就是我們可以歸納大概"},{"start":10290.457,"end":10317.455,"text":"幾種啦 幾個大家比較常抱怨的面向第一個就是像性價比覺得門票漲啦 但是進去很多都在維修或借宅第二個就是像環境部分 再來就是管理的部分然後第四就是周邊的 比如說餐飲很貴啊或者是公車比較不方便等等那 院長 你就統一回覆一下好不好因為 針對這麼多這個外國觀光客我們在網路上面看到的他們的體驗"},{"start":10319.525,"end":10345.645,"text":"有沒有這個你覺得可以來檢討然後來思考可以讓他們多多來故宮的地方好快問快答那個性價比就是說故宮門票350塊國人150塊已經是全世界算低的那那個空調像冰箱基本上來講的話不用每個都回答啦你只要針對你覺得有一些可以調整的部分就好了"},{"start":10345.945,"end":10374.414,"text":"不管很多的形式所以我們基本上來講20度上下基本上來講的話從來沒有說特別去調整所以顧客的抱怨最多的話當然包括交通包括餐飲這個一直都是故宮比較大的一個麻煩那交通的話當然就是說你等那個捷運通了Y28的話基本上還要10年這的確是一個問題那交通有沒有短期內可以克服的方案呢短期現在更糟糕因為捷運在施工所以它當然更亂了但是捷隊不能躺平啊"},{"start":10376.274,"end":10390.909,"text":"絕對不是只有一班公車啦有好多公車所以你就思考一下嘛如果大家就外國觀光客自由行覺得交通是一個很大問題你也這樣承認的話那是不是可以朝向就是讓交通更便捷的方式去思考嘛"},{"start":10391.229,"end":10407.086,"text":"交通跟便捷的方式的話當然就是因為最主要團客的話都有纜車這個還好散客的話的確是一個麻煩因為他要坐捷運然後再搭公車這個部分的話我們會再來協調台北市交通局看因為公車不是孤工營運的就是說"},{"start":10407.446,"end":10429.175,"text":"我當然知道啊但是因為故宮很重要啊就像我剛剛講的嘛別人都不用一直在備詢啊只有你們要來就是你很重要啊你不要對啊你要想方設法如果說外國觀光客不願意來的原因是因為交通那當然就要提供更便利的交通就是很簡單嘛對不對好不好這個就要去思考一下了我們有一個活物品質會議的話我請我們活物品質會議的話他們來研議看看有什麼方法可以改進"},{"start":10430.305,"end":10454.901,"text":"然後你再講一次就是說我們有一個服務品質的專案會議我會請同仁針對這些問題針對就是剛剛講這些我就說這就是也有可能以偏概全但是你就思考一下嘛有則改之嘛然後交通既然院長你也認為是一個問題的話那我認為你就應該提出個對策啦好不好然後這只是外國光客來的部分喔"},{"start":10456.044,"end":10484.275,"text":"下一次我再跟你討論到底要怎麼樣吸引外國觀光客來這又是另外一個層面的問題是好不好好謝謝謝謝委員指教好謝謝葉元之委員的質詢請院長回座接下來我們有請羅廷維委員進行詢答好謝謝主席有請院長有請院長趙薇好"},{"start":10484.858,"end":10512.775,"text":"好 院長之前本席曾經協調我們故宮文物副國美館來做展覽來到台中當時的會議結論其實很明確預計在2027年的暑假7月到9月來展出展期三個月預算跟分工的原則上我們循花枝禮戰的一個前例來做一個辦理策展的方向以書畫為主並且研議加入兩至三層的一個器物展見"},{"start":10514.236,"end":10538.967,"text":"這個同時我們也希望預計在2025年底前成立策展的一個小組請問一下這個案子對中部地區我們所有的民眾來說是非常有意義的我們也希望故宮是國家的故宮若能讓整個故宮的重要文物能夠到國美館來做一個展覽來到台中我們相信我們台中的委員都會一併來支持"},{"start":10539.787,"end":10568.238,"text":"不只是增加一檔的展覽而已也代表國家文物的資源能夠更被平衡的被看到讓中部的學生 親子 長輩藝文愛好者都有機會在台中看到這個高品質的一個故宮展覽所以想請教一下院長這個案件的進度現在到哪裡策展的小組目前籌備了嗎整個故宮跟國美館的固定窗口建立了嗎"},{"start":10569.278,"end":10592.69,"text":"展覽的主题展建的盘点预算的分工国美馆的展览条件评估有没有开始启动了尤其书画类的文物保存光照湿度还有展期的比较高的要求如果还要再加入两到三层的器物展也会涉及到展柜"},{"start":10593.59,"end":10608.039,"text":"安全保險運輸等等的安排這些展前要臨時準備不可能一定要籌備所以有沒有這些相關的細項可以跟我們分享一下"},{"start":10609.302,"end":10635.215,"text":"根文報告這個計畫的話就按原來的規劃就順利再進行所以策展小組對口基本上來講的話都成立了然後顯件的話基本上來講也簽到我這邊了我看過初步的顯件汽油的部分的話我請同仁再調整因為原來汽油比較少我希望說汽油的部分可以增加謝謝你因為我們說兩到三成嘛"},{"start":10637.036,"end":10659.83,"text":"對但是因為國美館比較希望是書畫作品因為書畫作品比較難得所以我們會來調整那至於說展場的相關的條件我跟委員報告因為剛講的花字旅站就是我在國美館長的時候拜託故宮七美博物館跟那個"},{"start":10661.58,"end":10677.857,"text":"東京護士美術館四個館連展的所以國美館在展場的條件上基本上是沒有問題但是最大的問題的話就是因為故宮的文物基本上來講都要在展櫃裡面所以會增加展櫃的規劃設計這部分"},{"start":10680.039,"end":10699.95,"text":"所以濕度跟這些相關的光照保存其實你們都應該已經經過訪問階段國美館沒有問題 我就說花枝里站的時候就已經做過了所以基本上國美館條件是沒有問題的因為當時你是國美館的館長現在你不是國美館館長所以你很好不代表別人很好所以我是說你的經驗有沒有傳承過去"},{"start":10701.551,"end":10723.104,"text":"基本上來講沒有問題啦因為這個問題的話不是我個人說好不好是我故宮的我們的燈堡我們的各個單位的他們會去那邊實際測試那甚至譬如說要台中市警察局要兩個配自私手槍的24小時在那邊基本上這些東西的話我們都會照這樣的一個規定來要求好"},{"start":10723.584,"end":10752.677,"text":"因為我已經追了很久我們希望說能夠如期如實的完成這沒有問題我們現場我們台中的委員楊瓊英委員我相信我們台中對大家都很支持對能夠將故宮迎來台中尤其花式禮戰的一個前期這樣子這麼好的一個展覽我們希望能夠持續的延續那也希望因此我們希望這個具體的一些進度包括您剛剛說已經簽證到你那邊你可能還會再調整希望故宮會後是不是能夠提供一個簡要的一個進度表"},{"start":10753.537,"end":10770.225,"text":"包括騎乘啊還有一些相關的分工展建的初步規劃預算的需求以及展場條件的一個評估這些到我們2027年以前的這個騎乘啊是不是有一些資料可以給我是OK可以沒有問題沒有問題好謝謝"},{"start":10773.902,"end":10793.907,"text":"那第二個我想跟您請教的是我們在故宮是一個非常重要的文化門面對於台灣來說國際旅客是重中之重的一個安排景點故宮也有一個世界級的文物典藏這點我想大家都一定認同但是本席想請教的是不是故宮有沒有國寶"},{"start":10795.307,"end":10812.52,"text":"而是外国的旅客走进故宫之后看不看得懂故宫文物找不找得到服务甚至逛完以后有没有留下深刻的印象最近本席看到两则外国旅客的评论我觉得很值得故宫来参考第一则英文评论"},{"start":10813.609,"end":10833.794,"text":"他所提到的這間博物館被高估了如果展覽幾乎沒有提供歷史脈絡跟敘事那為什麼會被列為歷史博物館整體看起來只是把不同的文物隨機的陳列並且附上所謂的物件說明"},{"start":10834.474,"end":10858.3,"text":"正因如此對那些沒有太多中國古代歷史背景的人來說啊很難真正欣賞到這一間博物館策展人真的應該用心的整理展品串聯展覽的內容並把故事說清楚我喜歡這最後五個字故事說清楚"},{"start":10859.785,"end":10878.675,"text":"我們現在面對資訊的爆炸我們更需要好好的把故事說清楚讓故事能夠將整個文物冷冰冰的文物能夠更有溫度的呈現所以這個評論"},{"start":10880.578,"end":10908.715,"text":"我覺得整體來說我不敢說他是一個很好的評論完美的評論公平的評論我不敢說但是我確實看到裡面點出了一些問題我們可以更好對沒有中國古代歷史背景的一個外國旅客只看到名稱年代材質可能他不知道這一件文物為什麼重要"},{"start":10910.199,"end":10920.992,"text":"第二個是韓國的旅客喔則是提到因為接近閉關前才去所以逛的很多"},{"start":10922.52,"end":10945.834,"text":"沒有逛的很多感覺不太值一萬韓元想到韓文資訊簡直是大海撈針我應該不會再去編長這兩則評論都是個案但其實也剛好點出不同面向兩個問題第一故宮展覽說明脈絡不夠清楚"},{"start":10946.923,"end":10959.157,"text":"第二故宮外語服務究竟有沒有真正到位我們提供的是英文還是我們也有把韓文做到位那您覺得呢"},{"start":10960.695,"end":10988.247,"text":"根文報告的確就是故宮的展覽分為常設展跟特展常設展的話基本上它的歷史脈絡譬如說你講銅器的話各種銅器的分類什麼就在展場牆壁上都有但是個別文物的說明的話就是有兩種看法一種看法的話是越簡單越好因為如果你展文物然後又展了一大堆文字很多人就是為了讀那個文字就停留在那邊不走"},{"start":10988.587,"end":11010.641,"text":"所以這個部分一直是博物館界在討論說那個文物的說明到底要簡短還是要長那大家就用一個QR Code的方式就是說要閱讀的人可以看得更多我想跟您分享就QR Code甚至我們現在AI非常的與時俱進我們也看過很多的一些文物透過AI動起來"},{"start":11013.632,"end":11041.209,"text":"這個故宮現在正在做那是不是裡面能夠AI透過QR Code去掃描以後呈現動起來版本呈現一些歷史文物的脈絡故事我覺得這個是可以透過在旁邊張貼一個QR Code來做一個增進故宮的那個AR導覽的話今年10月就開始了讓我們慢慢慢慢逐步在擴充你現在的AR是透過自己的手機還是還要帶"},{"start":11042.47,"end":11060.273,"text":"透過手機 只要手機就可以好 那我現在要講的就是說歷史脈絡的一些故事能不能再透過AR也好QR Code也好這個部分的方式來做呈現這是我們努力的目標可以吧 應該不難喔我相信維基百科或者是網路Google以下相關附件這些資料"},{"start":11060.834,"end":11089.529,"text":"其實都蠻重要當然附件的資料如果是文字他還要去閱讀如果能夠附件的資料包括QR Code所呈現的是一個AR的方式所呈現的是一個影片的故事那我覺得會更具體或者是更棒那這個部分當然也是預算的問題後續你要怎麼規劃你再提出我想如果是呈現這樣子的狀況每個院會的委員大家都一定會支持你覺得呢是"},{"start":11089.949,"end":11118.208,"text":"那另外韓文的部分的話因為日本的話他們還可以看得懂一些漢字所以過去的話我們以中英日為主但韓文的話基本上年輕人的話看不懂漢字所以的確是一個大的問題所以我們現在在展覽總說上面的話我們盡可能每個展覽的話都會有韓文的一個總說盡量好不好因為我們希望因為韓國的旅客韓文的導覽基本上過去沒有現在我們都出版了"},{"start":11118.288,"end":11131.501,"text":"要增加啦因為韓國旅客我們不是說特別重視韓國是因為看到韓國的旅客有一直在增加的一個脈絡我們還是要抓到這個客群的需求嘛好不好是好"},{"start":11132.506,"end":11159.705,"text":"那我想這個外語服務更具體喔今天我想不管是日本、歐美第一次走進故宮喔他從入口進來買票到展場從一路上可以看到哪幾個地方看到外語展覽的一些資訊從入口就看得到嗎?售票處就看得到嗎?還是票卷上就有提醒?近期故宮的場域的話都是雙語的環境這是基本上來講的話是雙語是基本的啦對是基本的啦"},{"start":11160.345,"end":11174.545,"text":"但是我要講的就是說日本韓國這一些部分我們也希望能夠照顧得到嘛是好不好是近三年英文日文韓文導覽這些人數我相信你們應該都有掌握吧"},{"start":11176.281,"end":11198.023,"text":"中英日基本上是沒有問題,韓國的話只有一個專業的導覽員,當然就是說,我說韓國的團他們自己一個生態,他們都會自己帶導覽員。對,所以增加韓國的導覽人員這件事情,短期可能你們還需要一點時間,但是增加文字的說明,QR Code的部分,我覺得這是有機會的。"},{"start":11198.524,"end":11221.944,"text":"因為韓文的導覽我們一直在爭可是都進不來因為他如果有這樣的專長的話他就去接旅行團的case對他也不會在那邊待著嘛所以我說用比較知識的方式透過一些資料AI部分來做呈現嘛好不好那我想最後要拜託就是故宮有沒有固定去整理外國旅客的真實回饋因為我認為這兩個的"},{"start":11225.533,"end":11239.987,"text":"回饋喔並不是單純的去批評他是可以讓我們更好的所以我覺得適時的去整理外國旅客的一個真實回饋對我們不管是分類追蹤改善相關的一些服務升級的依據這個部分有沒有機制啊"},{"start":11240.707,"end":11255.404,"text":"跟委員報告 不管南北院的話 觀眾的意見調查跟緩驗的話 我們都是列為每個月的一個檢視的 以前都放在院會裡面去做報告那另外的話 現在我們就把它放到服務品質專案小組去討論"},{"start":11256.786,"end":11276.431,"text":"好 拜託你喔我想這個我們有世界級的文物我們也希望這個台灣共同的驕傲能夠讓世界來看懂台灣讓世界來看懂故宮從今天我們一起來努力 好嗎好 謝謝委員的鼓勵好 謝謝謝謝羅廷維委員的質詢請院長回座"},{"start":11290.694,"end":11304.413,"text":"好 下一位 我們有請楊瓊英委員謝謝主席 楊瓊發言 邀請院長有請院長"},{"start":11309.451,"end":11333.848,"text":"杨委好院长好老朋友了在我们的国美馆服务这么好我们也知道台中在卢市长的领军之下台中对跟中央一起合作让台中能够成为艺术文化之都这是大家在国际上非常认可的刚刚我们罗委员所提的这也是我们台中人的心愿因为从南院"},{"start":11334.848,"end":11355.559,"text":"的選址開始我們一直希望在中部地區也就在台中可以落子故宮的分院那當時為了一個整體的規劃所以就先從南院開始但是雖然沒有落子在台中但是整個台中的藝術文化尤其是我們故宮的這個寶藏"},{"start":11357.28,"end":11385.305,"text":"都必須在台中能夠來展出所以我們也希望這個進度我想昭緯他會一直追蹤我也希望你把進度也給本席一份我們一起來完成讓台中更加的亮麗在藝術文化之中我們也可以盡一份心力我想這個參展元素絕對你可以放心一定是超標的我們一起加油那同時我們要跟一起來討論也就是在媒體報導"},{"start":11386.485,"end":11414.738,"text":"以及审计的资料显示故宫南院在开展之后呢开馆之后它的营运绩效跟投入预算呢之间的落差备受质疑那近期南院虽然持续的在投入了整个高额行销跟设施的一个维护经会也办理了多项的特展活动但是我们看到整体的观光外溢效应它是有限的它也没有办法有效的来代供"},{"start":11415.518,"end":11442.989,"text":"周邊的產業發展跟旅宿停留需求這一點非常的重要那顯示你整個在資源配置跟你的策展定位跟你在跨部會的一個整合它是有一個明顯的這個落差那所以呢它變成在這樣的一個情況之下中央你雖然大力的推動區域均衡跟地方創生的一個政策之下呢"},{"start":11444.011,"end":11461.307,"text":"南院理當應該要扮演一個中南部文化觀光的一個樞紐但是我們現在呈現的是你高投入那第一聯動的一個結構問題所以我要請教院長到目前為止南院的治常率為何啊"},{"start":11464.235,"end":11490.978,"text":"因為故宮基本上來講的話沒有至常例的這樣的一個思考邏輯但南苑的話它當初的規劃估計的話一年是70萬人次可是現在的話平均已經都到達100萬人次所以10年來的話已經有1000萬的遊客到了故宮南苑那的確陳國武委員所講的就是說在觀光效益上來講的話"},{"start":11493.399,"end":11510.488,"text":"國際觀光是比較缺少因為他的國際遊客比較少但是但是國內的遊客基本上來講的話已經從沿海的平均70萬到平均100萬已經增加了那另外的話故宮二館成立開館之後我想他的參觀人數會大幅提升"},{"start":11511.86,"end":11538.308,"text":"所以你說當然在我們本院是沒有自償的因為是國家級嘛但是你南院你必須要去做規劃怎麼樣的一個外溢效應產生而且你如果只在南院的這個位置目的就是希望它成為是一個引擎效果那你自己剛才嘆了那麼大的一口氣喔所以我還是具體給你建議你應該要好好去思考怎麼樣來聯合行銷的一個機制"},{"start":11541.169,"end":11568.097,"text":"那南苑它不是只有一個單點式的一個消費啊政府投資這麼大的量能那你沒有辦法帶動這個引擎這是國家級耶 對不對怎麼可以說我沒有自償呢這都是人民的納稅錢耶所以你看到沒有辦法要外印的時候你應該好好去討論你要怎樣實質的去帶動整個觀光的一個鏈結嘛這才是我們的目的啊"},{"start":11568.817,"end":11592.524,"text":"是對不對所以你這個部分你要好好的去討論喔因為我覺得你不能說你花了很大的錢來辦展覽辦完人就走那地方根本吃不到效益啊那地方也會給你抗議嘛所以好好的去檢討怎麼樣其實南岩記得有很大的一個潛力但是因為國際信用度當然比較低因為都集中在北岸那你明知道原因啊"},{"start":11593.004,"end":11614.649,"text":"你要怎么去改善啊你要怎么样去调整啊甚至我给你想了一个办法联合行销你怎么样去跨跨你的这个领域跨你的部会啊你不能只有给它摆在那里啊这样对南部人不公平啊对台中更不公平你当时如果落职在台中我今天你不用有这个烦恼"},{"start":11615.939,"end":11636.196,"text":"所以我们既然碰到这个问题你要好好的去思考怎么样去联合行销嘛对不对好你把你的方案给本席接下来本席要跟你讨论我们故宫博物院呢最近发生了这个文物破损还有所谓的什么高解析土党外泄媒体这么报导"},{"start":11637.037,"end":11653.082,"text":"那有這回事嗎那是不是暴露了我們整個內部的管理跟治安防護的一個結構性的一個漏洞甚至還有媒體報導說你海外展出展前展哇這個還有觸摸國寶的這一些事情那這個為什麼媒體會如此報導呢"},{"start":11656.226,"end":11678.106,"text":"我想跟委員報告一下這個部分的完全不能講完全大部分都是誤解一點都不能誤解啊那你大部分的誤解表示有這個事情啊跟委員報告沒有這個是一個所謂的誤解就是說比如說我一個展覽每次要展覽開始的時候會有一個記者會會有一個議展"},{"start":11681.108,"end":11695.561,"text":"這樣叫做展前展那本來它就是記者會你要說明清楚喔記者會跟展前展是完全不一樣的概念當然不一樣那如果有誤你還是要去嚴重澄清因為這是我們的國寶我們不能如此被污蔑"},{"start":11699.625,"end":11705.689,"text":"有這改進無責不能被污蔑嘛是不是對那另外的話就是說有開放給專家因為故宮的文物要出國展覽要報請文化部文資局請文資的省委員這些流程都是必要做的甚至媒體有這樣的聲音到底人意之書在哪裡那就是曲解你當為館長你必須要去理解這就是曲解對就是曲解你也要嚴重嚴肅的去"},{"start":11728.766,"end":11750.798,"text":"去給社會大眾說明清楚因為大家對我們的這個國保呢我們是一個國際形象跟一個社會信任這個非常的重要啊所以我甚至要建議你你是不是如果有人有這樣子的一個質疑那你是不是甚至有這樣的報導那你們是不是應該也要內部去調整譬如說你可受人員接觸的這個記錄那你這樣子一講啊真的有些人是他也不敢"},{"start":11759.142,"end":11780.468,"text":"這個亂做那你自己有自己保護的一個機制在故宮的報告裡面都有很完整的說明該有的法定程序包括回來的時候要海關來查驗這都是法定的一個程序然後再經文職委員再次的確認看每一件文物是不是也在文物有沒有破損這都是法定的一個程序你現在這麼說那我們更嚴肅的討論這個議題"},{"start":11785.009,"end":11798.758,"text":"你都依照依法但是媒體會這樣子的一個說法不是媒體那是個人的網路他曲解基本上來講的話專業的媒體基本上來講的話他們很清楚他們可以來跟故宮查證但事實上是沒有來查證的"},{"start":11803.681,"end":11819.989,"text":"所以個人就敢這麼挑戰你那我們是國家級的很重要的資產我們更要鞏固我們的資產所以我個人認為在怎麼樣確保國保不暴露制度的一個漏洞跟人為風險之下我們還有討論的一個空間因為你要鞏固你自己的形象所以一旦"},{"start":11831.315,"end":11845.647,"text":"對絕對不能有模糊的空間所以一旦有不一樣的報導你必須要立即去澄清因為一定要維護我們國際的形象跟社會的一個信任這個非常重要 好吧是 謝謝委員的提醒好 謝謝"},{"start":11855.219,"end":11882.132,"text":"我們下一位鄭振前鄭振前鄭振前委員鍾嘉斌鍾嘉斌鍾嘉斌委員林楚英林楚英林楚英委員何新淳何新淳何新淳委員謝一鳳謝一鳳謝一鳳委員賴慧媛賴慧媛賴慧媛委員林倩琦林倩琦林倩琦委員蔡玉渝蔡玉渝蔡玉渝委員關於本日上午會議做如下決議"},{"start":11885.762,"end":11906.445,"text":"今天登記的諮詢委員均已發言完畢詢答結束對於委員諮詢時要求提供的相關資料還有未來得及答覆的內容請相關機關盡速以書面答覆115年度中央預算"},{"start":11907.867,"end":11931.368,"text":"中央政府總預算有關國際故宮博物院單位預算案故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案相關預算提案請於5月28日中午12時提出另定期繼續審查報告委員會上午的議程處理完畢現在休息下午2點半我們繼續開會"},{"start":11938.436,"end":11938.496,"text":"鸡蛋"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}