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推動綠色級轉型金融精進第六版永續經濟活動認定參考指引持續推動綠色級轉型金融行動方案深化企業永續治理文化"},{"start":2231.618,"end":2240.421,"text":"4.115年度主管預算編列情形1.稅務部分115年度共編列8億830萬7千元較114年度增加6萬元2.稅出部分115年共編列18億2472萬餘元其中人事費15億1100萬餘元基本運作費需求2億2882萬"},{"start":2260.153,"end":2286.827,"text":"監理及檢查計畫七千七百一十三萬一百一十五年稅數預算較一百一十四年度增加一億兩千一百六十一萬餘元主要系增加人事費八千五百二十四萬餘元分攤辦公大樓所需管理費一千四百零八萬一般行政編列十七億三千九百八十三萬金融監理計畫編列一千八百四十萬九千元"},{"start":2289.051,"end":2294.332,"text":"銀行監理計畫編列965萬8千元證券期貨市場監理計畫編列1194萬4千元保險監理計畫編列629萬1千元金融機構檢查計畫編列3082萬8千元以上僅就本會115年度各單位預算編制重點綜合說明各項計畫及"},{"start":2315.615,"end":2339.723,"text":"經費均細配合當前政府施政重點為建立安全與發展並經金融市場妥適規劃編列懇請各位委員先進予以會議支持指教謝謝謝謝彭主委現在開始詢答先做一下宣告每位初期委員發言時間8分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘每位熱席委員發言4分鐘今日上午10時"},{"start":2341.636,"end":2365.781,"text":"截止發言登記現在依登記順序請登記第一位林德福委員質詢謝謝主席請金管會彭主委請金管會彭主委"},{"start":2371.84,"end":2382.509,"text":"主委早我想主委因為以防養老政策商業型不動產逆向抵押貸款從2015年開辦以來統計到2026年3月底16家國營累積核貸件數是1663件"},{"start":2391.897,"end":2411.983,"text":"那核貸額度是628億元因為少子化的問題台灣房市正面臨史無前例的大繼承時代的衝擊那媒體指出2024年遺產總額高達1.32兆元平均每三間就換手房就有一間是來自繼承"},{"start":2413.863,"end":2422.489,"text":"那從金管會角度來看今年以防養老需求是穩定的成長還是大量老舊房屋的淪為無人藥的這些負債資產"},{"start":2425.869,"end":2446.422,"text":"謝謝委員關心 確實是在高齡化社會裡面金融市場會推出一些符合這樣的一個商品像以防養老 反向抵押貸款就是其中一個銀行在承作的一個商品我想過去我們在這方面也非常鼓勵我們銀行業進行這樣的一個處理那當然這還是一個商業行為"},{"start":2447.904,"end":2464.303,"text":"還是要從銀行的角度來看看這個房屋是否適合做這件事情我想未來在我們在推動所謂的金融業如何去助力我們的所謂的高齡化轉型的時候我想這個以防養老也是未來非常重要的因為以這樣這個"},{"start":2467.166,"end":2488.577,"text":"大量的老舊房屋淪為無人藥的這個負債資產也造成以防養老的整個業務啊因此由受到他的緊縮啊你從什麼角度來看未來呢就是說我剛跟委員說明報告了就是以防養老本身也是一個反向房貸業務它是一個商業行為"},{"start":2489.477,"end":2507.822,"text":"那只是過去我們比較著重在是正常的房貸那現在反過來等於說這一部分還是要看它的商業的條件我想剛剛委員關係說我們從其他國外發展的經驗也看到假如這個房子並沒有這樣的商業條件確實在以防養老承作上是會比較困難的"},{"start":2508.522,"end":2532.792,"text":"因為現在很多金融機構變成他們也在用有一些禮專在辦保險跨足到保險業我相信那個彭主委你很清楚那等於是有一點不務正業你本來你所做的金融並不是要去做保險但是確實有很多銀行他就是用禮專專門在辦保險"},{"start":2534.993,"end":2551.522,"text":"而且還看他的業績等等我認為那個主委你有什麼看法是各位報告從1980年1990年代就是所以全世界興起一個跨業經營的風潮那其實共同行銷成為是個金融機構的普遍現象"},{"start":2552.603,"end":2576.168,"text":"我想自從我們2001年推動金庫公司以來在明文條文裡面就是支持共同行銷但是共同行銷要符合各業別的規範像剛才講的雖然剛才委員提到銀行行員他本身是銀行行員但他要進行相關的其他跨業商品的銷售也都要符合各業別相關的條件我想這部分我們會好好來控管而且那個"},{"start":2578.109,"end":2597.001,"text":"甚至於有的經理人還要求一定要做到多少的業績而且他為了業績他就使盡各種的手段來跟那些客戶來做要求其實這些都非他的本業那個主委你有什麼看法"},{"start":2597.401,"end":2620.572,"text":"是 我想在跨業銷售的時候呢 本質上銷售紀律跟銷售的這個所謂的行為規範過去不管是銀行局保險局都有明確的這個要求而且過去若有相關的規定違反的話 大家都會予以處罰我想再來很重要就是在跨業銷售很重要是會不會利益衝突的問題在過去我們相關的法規我們也做一個房主"},{"start":2621.754,"end":2627.128,"text":"剛剛委員提到說會不會以業績導向這我們在關心他們內控內基的時候也是非常重要的一個點"},{"start":2630.925,"end":2652.639,"text":"因為銀行開辦以防養老貸款時面臨借款人受命不確定性以單保品房屋疊價的風險以上數16家銀行開辦的以防養老的業務面對上述風險時債權沒有辦法收回的情況是否在控制的範圍內"},{"start":2654.793,"end":2676.746,"text":"目前我們觀察到現在他們承作的時候還是相對比較保守的所以這部分我們還沒有看到有這樣的一個明顯像委員剛剛提到的那個傾向金管會以你們的了解普遍來說銀行是獲利還是虧本有沒有數字上的一些劣數說明"},{"start":2677.566,"end":2695.741,"text":"其實台灣的銀行現在應該是史上獲利狀況應該是相對是好的時候再來就是他們現在的不管是風險管理還有資本市足率也是歷史上最高我想今天也有媒體揭露就是說我們公布的第一季其實銀行獲利也都是非常的非常的好"},{"start":2696.181,"end":2707.93,"text":"但是我這邊還是要呼籲一下因為好的話還是要呼應我們所謂的金融大回饋計畫我想這部分也希望我們金融業能夠把這個營業的獲利能夠與社會共享跟員工共享"},{"start":2709.124,"end":2733.133,"text":"另外有關於115年第一季金管會主管辦理政策宣導相關的這些廣告資金的情形本席上會看到以防養老或安養信託等宣導那這個115年有關於115年的宣導這個狀況情形那個主委你這邊有沒有一些概略啊好謝謝我想我會請央級局長簡單跟您說明一下"},{"start":2735.182,"end":2749.971,"text":"跟委員報告我們這個宣導的重點包括從校園出發那另外一個部分我們會走向社區那同時呢我們也會在15年的時候進行相關委外就是專業的這個廣告的拍攝那這個目前都正在進行當中這樣喔好"},{"start":2751.692,"end":2765.25,"text":"主委因為媒體有報導金管會推動台灣個人投資儲蓄帳戶TISA正與財政部延伸提供租稅的優惠那113年青年失業率為7.9%"},{"start":2768.554,"end":2790.074,"text":"青年進入職場薪資偏低在高失業率高物價低薪的狀況下本席認為政府應該要鼓勵青年的儲蓄不僅可以累積創業的資金透過整個財經素養提升累積第一筆的投資基金本席也希望主管機關推動"},{"start":2791.395,"end":2808.285,"text":"台灣個人投資儲蓄賬戶TESAS能夠提供青年族群較多的租稅優惠來幫青年及早自立生活以及遠離貧窮主委您的看法呢我想謝謝委員這個幫助青年人還有就是協助國人"},{"start":2809.105,"end":2835.519,"text":"持續的建構未來第三 退休的第三支柱能夠從更早來投資自己 投資未來這是我們的政策目的 剛剛跟委員提到至於委員剛剛提到那個租稅的建議我會帶回去跟財政部來演上好 謝謝那根據打詐的一般表的資料顯示115年1到4月假投資詐騙是最多的財損的原因那警方在受理有5500件"},{"start":2837.22,"end":2840.723,"text":"財損合計93億元民怨四起過去屢屢發生銀行內部人員以詐團來勾結能夠利用金融機構的制度缺失來進行洗錢"},{"start":2852.173,"end":2869.713,"text":"那這個詐欺犯啦詐欺的這些犯罪整個危害防治的條例啊這個修正案現在已在一一四年三月底修正通過那我請問主委相關金融防詐的漏洞是否能夠補起來"},{"start":2870.874,"end":2899.004,"text":"是 剛剛委員提到一個重點就是我們的防詐專法打詐專法在今年1月修正其中有很重要的就是我們把過去在不管是警政署或是相關的執法單位遇到的一些的困難我們在這個專法裡面也訂了比如說我們過去在跨業照會的時候在法律上並沒有只有同業照會我們這次也把它加進來我們現在緊鑼密鼓地在修訂執法把這個跨業之間的資訊平台把它建構起來"},{"start":2899.804,"end":2917.805,"text":"那再來就是有關那個就是我們透過科技打造剛剛那個報告也提到我們透過聯徵跟財經他們怎麼建構一個資訊防疫網這部分我們也正在做我想新的打造專法通過以後呢會針對過去我們大家比較關心的問題能夠應該有所提升這樣齁"},{"start":2919.517,"end":2943.444,"text":"因為那個主委金融監理處罰是手段目的是希望金融機構來強化治理會後也請金管會提供一些書面資料來做說明近三年來針對銀行內控疏失或銀行人員勾結詐團金管會處罰的件數以及處罰金額跟這個整個華金的繳納的狀況是沒問題我們會提供詳細的資料給委員參考"},{"start":2946.725,"end":2969.334,"text":"最後一個議題由於政府承諾擴大對美投資外界關注本國金融業者是否增加美國的據點因為根據軍管會盤點截至一一四年十二月底有十三家國營在美國設有二十五家的分行那四家辦事處三家子銀行以及其他"},{"start":2971.695,"end":2998.827,"text":"服務這個辦公室 合計一共73個據點那過去本國銀行在美國據點曾因為洗錢 房子缺失遭到美國縱橫那那個彭主委請說明今年海外實地金融檢查規劃整個情況 尤其是美國要確保本國銀行似乎因應當地最新的風險做調整避免再次被美國縱橫"},{"start":2999.707,"end":3022.575,"text":"是謝謝委員那確實是過去我們曾經有金融機構因為那個反洗錢違反法令差不多這個聯邦他們那個FED已經把它解除這個管制我想最近新聞也出來了我想再來就是我們跟美國之間檢查關係非常的順暢也友好我們在兩地方共同檢查共同檢討其實我們都一直在進行中好我也希望更嚴謹一點是謝謝"},{"start":3024.716,"end":3033.38,"text":"好 謝謝現在有兩位委員在場 請問對上次議事錄有無異議沒有異議的話議事錄確定請下一位質詢委員賴世保委員質詢謝謝主席有請金管會的彭主委請金管會的彭主委"},{"start":3057.912,"end":3076.229,"text":"委員長你辛苦了不過最近有件事情媒體方面對你很有意見台新星光合併以後它底下的新售它的外匯價格變動準備金"},{"start":3078.925,"end":3079.727,"text":"從996億銳減到521億 少了475億 少了將近50%"},{"start":3086.926,"end":3109.199,"text":"那現在呢 結果我看媒體寫的 把你寫得很不堪誒說你故意落跑 交給這個副主委去接見然後呢 副主委不敢決定然後呢 因為這個 哇 台新新光合併以後他這個力量很大 什麼之類的他到底是要用保險局4月份已經跟他講了"},{"start":3110.3,"end":3124.932,"text":"結果心受不療他還是自己改來改去他就燒劈裂了這個475億喔這個說你的副主委要請示你啊我現在就請你再公開講到底你這次你的態度怎麼樣謝委員我想"},{"start":3129.678,"end":3154.143,"text":"媒體有他自己的角度我想事實只有一個我想在裡面也謝謝委員能夠讓我有機會在這邊說明但是我今天希望不要針對個案來做討論因為在國會這邊實在不適合針對個案討論不過我想說想跟委員說明的一件事情媒體已經揭露了這沒什麼個案不個案媒體已經揭露了"},{"start":3155.373,"end":3167.954,"text":"我們接見陳情有一定的程序不是媒體講的對 而且就是說我們有一定的分層那個人有個人主觀的看法 我們予以尊重那另外再來就是說"},{"start":3169.741,"end":3197.411,"text":"通案怎麼處理我先針對這個事情跟委員做個說明外嫁金是一個法定準備法定準備的提撥有法律的規定這不是會計準則的問題我想保險局已經跟這個已經針對這個東西也對外做過說明然後外嫁金的收回有它一定的法律程序我想這個大概就非常明確的我就做以上的說明"},{"start":3201.31,"end":3216.158,"text":"你認不認同一個已經被合併以後被消滅的公司他要引用的不是保險房他要引用的是金庫房 你認不認同 就這樣子"},{"start":3217.523,"end":3243.276,"text":"我們所有的法律都有它一定的比如說我們監控法是規範監控公司這個法人體為主保險法是規範我們的保險公司為主監控公司跟監控法有個那個這個所謂的最小干預原則的應用基本上我們兩個都是法律都是同位階的法律該遵守都要遵守其實並沒有衝突的地方"},{"start":3244.212,"end":3263.491,"text":"我想剛剛委員提到 各當我們不以評論好 各當不講 那我再問你那現在我們就講了這個金庫合併以後底下的授權公司已經不存在了原來說已經不存在了那他的除了提列外加金的事情應該要遵守保險法還是遵守金庫"},{"start":3264.031,"end":3281.24,"text":"我剛跟委員說明過了外價金的提撥不是一個會計準則不是IFRS上面的規定是根據我們法令上提撥的法定準備法定準備的提撥有法定的規定你要收回也要經過主管機關的同意我想這非常的明確"},{"start":3282.475,"end":3306.285,"text":"所以你認同保險局4月份做的決定是不是這個意思我們在過去的時候我們一定會跟比如說今天有這樣我們一定會跟外界做一個充分請他來說明外界當然也可以來跟我們做說明所以媒體說我比如說這個龜縮這個完全是子虛無有好啦你什麼時候可以定案啦這個問題我們按照程序來什麼時候可以定案大概什麼時候"},{"start":3309.986,"end":3332.677,"text":"沒有 這個部分我跟委員報告 該怎麼做就怎麼做 我們不會在這邊跟您決定一個什麼時間我還是沒聽你懂啦就說他有一個公問程序 我沒辦法跟您說什麼時候會決定 但是我想法規定得非常清楚你認同保險局4月份所發出的法律 根據保險法做法處理 這樣對吧"},{"start":3333.444,"end":3357.134,"text":"不是 保險局就是本會啊 就是我們自己的啊所以你當然認同啦沒有 這次我跟你講我們按照我們有一定的程序我想保險局講是我們現在非常就是我們現在規定的內容就是你的態度啦就是你的態度就是保險局的態度我這樣講可以吧沒有想說說叫保險局的態度就是你的態度我們就是法規的態度就是我的態度"},{"start":3359.485,"end":3376.059,"text":"保險局的態度就是彭金榮主委的態度保險局是按照法規表達他的態度我想我也是一樣我們依法行政的因為委員這個問題很複雜不是一句話就能夠把它解釋但是我說法規非常清楚我想公司也很清楚第二題"},{"start":3387.523,"end":3415.882,"text":"你在綠圖的資產管理中心在高雄市辦你提出來兩年有感 現在已經一年了結果這個變成一個叫老實講我的標題給你向下了你這個資產管理中心是爬好非常非常有錢人變成家族有錢人很有錢很有錢的家族辦公室的理財中心"},{"start":3417.561,"end":3439.277,"text":"這只是計劃其中的一部分而已我現在講對嗎沒有 這只是計劃其中的一部分你的意思 你說自產管理中心就希望把這個在新加坡或者在香港的錢能夠到台灣來 對不對那我就跟你統計了 到3月底台灣的錢來的2.4兆 新加坡4.1兆 香港3.9兆平均"},{"start":3441.659,"end":3469.692,"text":"新加坡或者香港都是4兆左右我们在澳田4兆我们还有很大努力的空间我现在要问的是我要问你的是你这个事情这个事情怎么样去继续做然后不要让人家感觉好像你专门在替有钱非常非常有钱人在服务没有 谢谢文给我这个机会说明就是说全世界在做资产管理中心都是涵盖各种课程各种层面"},{"start":3470.552,"end":3490.667,"text":"我想說剛剛委員在我們16項計畫裡面有一個是私人銀行業務那當然是針對高資產客戶但是我們其他比如說我們要有那個提升商品壯大這個投信業務那其上各位看到我們對新的商品普羅大眾都可以購買的新的金融商品我們也"},{"start":3491.828,"end":3505.478,"text":"在開放還有就是像委員同仁講的TISA也是不限國人都可以適用的我想剛才委員如果專注於高資產客戶這確實是其中的一環不是全部很大的一環喔不是全部"},{"start":3507.745,"end":3521.681,"text":"比重我們現在假設資產管理因為我們的私人銀行剛起步剛剛委員那個資料也是不對的比如新加坡2023年他確實4.1兆4.1兆美元那台灣差不多32兆台幣差不多1兆美元台灣是1兆美元"},{"start":3523.383,"end":3542.695,"text":"這是我們在講說2.3兆是指說單單私人銀行這件事情從我們推動前的大概1.1兆我們推動一年多已經成為2.3兆等於多了1.3兆剛才講的是總和我們的資產管理規模不是只有私人銀行還有我們的資產管理公司"},{"start":3543.295,"end":3558.805,"text":"資產管理公司像投信投顧跟全國來來來 我跟你說我的數字都沒錯你剛剛講說我只有一兆加起來就是二點你說二點三兆 二點四兆 一樣意思而這個匹別不一樣新加坡是2023年4.1兆美元4.1兆美元那是什麼但是台灣假設"},{"start":3561.486,"end":3590.101,"text":"對照我們在2024年的時候大概是32兆台幣相比1兆美元現在來講經過這一年多以來我們已經變成大概40兆左右啦所以增加了8兆啊所以我們的目標是希望6年之內能夠把我們的資產管理規模從1兆美元擴增一倍到2兆美元啊但是人家比如新加坡跟香港他能夠4兆美元是經過了幾十年的努力我們當然要集齊直追啊"},{"start":3590.661,"end":3607.546,"text":"他的錢可以把他搶過來嗎當然我們要有誘因才能夠搶得過來什麼誘因 什麼誘因譬如說其實我想稅是其中一個我想稅不是最主要的原因我想在我們在整個推動的過程當中也跟很多的這些的相關團體談的說"},{"start":3609.927,"end":3638.86,"text":"很多台灣人就是因為覺得台灣沒有這個業務比如說沒有這個商品沒有這個業務沒有這個人才我只好到海外去所以當然是個考慮但所以絕對不是我剛才講說很多有錢人是願意繳稅但是希望他有一種因為我時間快到了今天等一下主席站起來來我做一個聽話問你啊這個股市政策都已經清乾淨了看到前一陣子這個因為多久以前了國泰 台芯 群億 第一金都當機了交易緩慢"},{"start":3640.455,"end":3642.737,"text":"這個當然是我們應該要來去跟券商溝通因為我們的資本市場不斷的擴大"},{"start":3662.811,"end":3686.756,"text":"我覺得你要提供你的服務品質跟穩定性這本來就是我們該做只是說這個他們要花時間當然沒想到這麼短的時間之內他的系統因為當然也都在調適但是我們會督導請我們政局跟交易所跟他們一起來請我們的券商你不給一個時間表什麼時候可以要求到他們比如說我量成績要量到三道我都不怕這樣可以嗎"},{"start":3687.476,"end":3710.712,"text":"這我請我們局長跟您簡單回答委員好就是這個部分我們有注意到所以我們請交易所在4月30號已經找眷商和眷商工會來開會請他們一定要注意說這個網路下單相關APP的這些問題然後要提升他們的設備不論是軟硬體這些都要注意什麼時候可以搞定啊什麼時候說絕對有APP什麼時候都沒問題"},{"start":3711.653,"end":3722.484,"text":"丟時間表我們要求他們一定要做到不能讓APP就是像網路的這樣子那個 可不可以用書面跟你報告一下啦好 報 報委員事實上來講的話我們已經 剛才局長講的我們已經開完會那我們持續我們教育所會去緊盯他們跟他們的一些銀行或者是一些APP的這些"},{"start":3735.057,"end":3755.711,"text":"公司他們是不是有持續的去聯繫所以我們一直持續在盯這件案子一個月內可以搞定嗎一個月內可以嗎一個月內我們基本上來講我們都會我們都在進行中啦鮑委員我們會盡力的進行中我們很快的已經都開會跟這些建設商討論了好謝謝賴司鵬委員下一位請郭國文委員質詢"},{"start":3766.596,"end":3775.473,"text":"謝謝主席接下來我們請麻煩那個彭主委一下請金管會彭主委"},{"start":3783.137,"end":3799.307,"text":"主委我上次有提到金融科技的部分當初有關Alpha理財機器人是經過金管會的認定但是當初在2021的時空背景跟現在AI的時空背景完全是不一樣的"},{"start":3799.787,"end":3829.407,"text":"那差別在說呢當初的Alpha這個機器人理財有經過這個金管會的認定但是後來整個AI的環境劇烈的轉變之後呢現在許許多多這個股民啊想要透過AI了解股票的一些可能性的分析透過checkGDP啊 捐贈你啊等等的AI的這種方式來做處理那這種情況底下又跟金管會非專業認定的情況底下不太相同"},{"start":3830.047,"end":3849.495,"text":"那最近今晚會的一個報告提出要提供一個人工智慧這個風險分類框也就是說它原來是在AI基本法當中衍生而來簡單地講或許有沒有可能把這些目前一般股民在使用的這些AI工具把它納管以避免集體行為的產生"},{"start":3851.081,"end":3869.2,"text":"謝謝委員我想這個有很多層面因為當然我們的科技與時俱進剛剛委員提到以前我們用機器人理財感覺很先進但現在因為AI出現以後AI agent出現以後很多更有新的技術出來我們注意到這件事情"},{"start":3869.921,"end":3897.122,"text":"我們過去除了針對人工智慧在金融使用有一些指引以外另外就是我們會考量像速發部他們現在AI基本法裡面他會要求各目的世界主管機關針對這個風險管理的框架我們下面要定指引我想風險管理有四大步驟一個辨識 衡量 處理跟評估這些未來我們都會來針對這個東西比如說新的這些我直接了當問主委會不會管這些AI"},{"start":3898.207,"end":3914.158,"text":"我們會因為我們現在都按照依法我們會對金融機構做管理金融機構怎麼使用這些AI工具就會在我們規範的範圍那你會不會用AI來管啊這個AI當然就是說這個部分我們也要管AI用AI管有沒有可能啊"},{"start":3915.376,"end":3937.995,"text":"當然很多人也有說過這個問題就是說我們也其實我們也正在收集就儘管問你要管AI你自己沒有AI管或者你沒有AI化或要求別人AI化那也很奇怪不是嗎一個是比如說我們講說我們訂的是管理架構像比如說管理架構裡面再來我們自己的還有實地的現場監理這是兩回事像比如我們有科技監理科技監理或是我們講說監理科技"},{"start":3939.116,"end":3961.103,"text":"主委你有注意到但是我卻沒有聽到你有具體的一個內容沒關係這一題還有時間討論但我只做提醒說如果你沒有適當的規範的話一般的股民這個行為會造成可能一個集體的一個結果或非理性的結果導致資本市場一個動盪還有一個可能性就是說最近我們看到主動型的這個ETF"},{"start":3962.623,"end":3987.223,"text":"一年以來主動型ETF所吸引到的這個資金已經到5500億之多速度非常的快當初我們主動型的ETF的時候重點是放在每日揭露這個成分股它避免跟單嘛資訊透明OK 這OK那現階段呢這個主動型的ETF呢在十大的這個台股的分別的部分呢都已經列在其中"},{"start":3988.104,"end":3994.792,"text":"中間的部分像建設的部分所佔的市值比就高達6.34金像電的話高達4.6那這裡頭出現一個問題主動ETF的那個經理人是經理人他的權限很大"},{"start":4005.565,"end":4023.986,"text":"他不像是一般的基金有一些產業別的一個限制啊對不對所以他要換就換啊就是彈性大換股的空間大在這種情況底下你不小心啊如果你沒有做一個主動的一個限制的話搞不好就變成變相的放空了主委有沒有這種可能性"},{"start":4025.441,"end":4042.754,"text":"我想看委員也有觀察到一個現象其實我們的投資人在不同的階段對不同的投資標的有不同的興趣比如說前一陣子高股息再捐ETF接下來到主動式ETF因為這個隨著市場的變化他們會有不一樣的看法"},{"start":4043.795,"end":4065.849,"text":"委員提到其實主動式ETF在國際上已經行之有年只是我們進入的比較慢所以我們整個監理我們在有請交易所定有一套的公共機制我剛剛要擔心你會不會擔心啊就問主委沒有我們所有事情都會擔心但是你這過度的換股或主動的幅度太大需不需要稍微約束一下對我們本來就有在監控他們監控一年之後啊"},{"start":4066.269,"end":4090.988,"text":"其實我們本來就是對基金他持股的集中度我們都有在做監控啦那實際上剛剛委員說我們其實什麼都擔心但我們不是只有擔心我們還要相對要做準備啦因為我們不擔心大家才擔心你有要限制他嗎就是說比例上6.34這麼高然後他要換的時候是不是要考慮其他的因素對不對有沒有可能之前我們是事先接到嘛那接下來我們有沒有事後的規範有沒有"},{"start":4092.018,"end":4110.072,"text":"這個是我們整個動態監理的過程啦很多事情我們也不會在這邊公開的說我想說這部分如果需要的話我待會請那個棋局跟交易所給您做個簡單的說明現在棋局要來說明嗎還是交易所這是我們那個ETF的管理主動型ETF來請說"},{"start":4112.37,"end":4131.253,"text":"報告委員其實我們主動式ETF其實也是基金操作只是它有掛牌所以依照基金它的屬性它本來就是要投資在某一些它鎖定的這個基金屬性的一個個股所以剛剛委員所提到的狀況本來就是基金經理人他在平常投資操作的時候他就要注意的"},{"start":4131.953,"end":4160.023,"text":"所以不能隨便任意換股 空間還是有受限OK 好 那請回那接下來我就問一下反正林董事長也來嘛我就問一下林董林董 最近你知道我們的股民成長的速度非常的驚人已經高達1400萬人你在2024年的時候證交所的這個公開資訊的這個觀測站的時候做一個改版看起來有一種比較現代化的狀況但是老實說好不好用"},{"start":4161.524,"end":4189.457,"text":"我個人覺得就看到了結果一大堆公文或原始資料一般的股民希望什麼我們隨便整理一下用AI整理一下大盤走勢外資的買賣超本益比值利率成交量EPS等等這個都要透過什麼check GDP透過什麼財務狗甚至要付費有沒有一個可能性在政府的一個公開的網站當中可以看得到"},{"start":4190.802,"end":4192.052,"text":"這個股民希望的訊息一來"},{"start":4193.1,"end":4221.219,"text":"比較有公信力二來可以有專業知識的養成的可能性那個領導有沒有可能再改造一個空間剛剛委員報告事實上你剛才也提到的公開資訊貫徹站是由這個上市公司來輸入那基本上交易所有一個叫做Investment Info Hub就是完全呢就是投資人的Info Hub你就可以進去剛才委員所提到的這些相關的投資的訊息"},{"start":4223.28,"end":4238.233,"text":"我們都能夠非常清楚的去搜尋到所以我們會提供這相關的資訊給助理不是從MOPS那你剛剛講的資訊跟我剛剛提到一般股民想要知道資訊是不太一樣的"},{"start":4238.834,"end":4261.828,"text":"我會說一般大家比較期待的訊息有沒有可能在公開資訊站裡頭找得到的就請林董的這個部分來做一個調整好不好麻煩再做一個調整謝謝委員的提醒這樣會比較有公信力嘛對專業知識養成比較有機會好不好算是把它當成一種普惠金融的教育好不好好 謝謝我再請教主委主委"},{"start":4262.728,"end":4280.508,"text":"最近發生一件事情我發現現在這個金融機構因為主委你基本上為人比較和善他們好像因為這樣的情況底下屢屢有進行一些挑戰台中銀行配合這個詐團的洗錢這非常之嚴重"},{"start":4282.25,"end":4300.212,"text":"我沒有看到今晚會表示什麼意見是不是現在董事長是李瑞昌是前主委的關係是有門神的效果還是怎麼樣就完全不動之前還有一個發生11億挪用這個公款去租這個私人飛機的時候你們還把這個董事長換成常務董事"},{"start":4302.234,"end":4331.369,"text":"當然換成唐總統我個人也是很不滿因為大家都實質的負責人是誰在那邊開會也是要看他的臉色台中銀行屢屢出現這麼多粗暴的事情配合這個詐團不論是開綠燈也好不論是開賬戶也好不論把額度調高也好讓洗錢詐騙集團能夠快速的把這個資金匯到海外境外公司也好完全沒有內機內控可言這根本是公開打臉金管會啊 主委"},{"start":4332.169,"end":4349.197,"text":"沒聽你說一句話耶報告委員 我想齁一個人做事的風格不是從臉上看的啦我想我們監理機關做事穩健低調我們該怎麼做就會怎麼做不會每天在外面說我要怎麼做怎麼做我想"},{"start":4351.857,"end":4373.861,"text":"我們的法律非常清楚你違反什麼規定我們就會怎麼處理我想這我們會有一定的步驟民眾也有他的權利我們也要兼顧我想剛才講對於剛才委員提到個案我們不論但是對於銀行的裡面的內部控管缺失跟詐團勾結我們多次強調絕不容忍絕不容忍 對你看金錢局喔"},{"start":4374.181,"end":4401.702,"text":"在二零二五三月就查出異狀喔到十二月的時候才移送喔足足拖了八個月不是阿委員我們已經發了誠心稿了就說就像我們今天來講就是第一個我們是實體檢查回來我們只是實體檢查的時間是到四月底結束上一次台中商業出包的時候裡頭還有那些很奇怪除了台中銀行的出事還有一個關鍵制度上的問題喔主席不好意思那個我們都"},{"start":4402.322,"end":4428.38,"text":"該起訴該處罰都已經處理剛剛委員提到我也順便在這邊澄清就是媒體單單用那個但是事情就是不斷的發生我想委員的督導是對的我想說這部分我再提醒一點制度面的部分誰是事格的股東金管會要避免大股東干政在上一次的時候我就提出了你的金控法銀行法要大股東干政修法主委你本來講說去年下半年要儘管提出到現在草案也沒有"},{"start":4428.74,"end":4438.868,"text":"那個用書面跟他回覆現在草案也沒有主委我們在研擬這個條文中已經拖了很久了嘛謝謝謝謝國務委員下一位質詢委員請林黛樺委員質詢請金管會彭主委委員好"},{"start":4471.127,"end":4488.81,"text":"我們針對這個金管會的這個打詐的新天堂是否會在這個外籍移工的會對丈夫的通路來來來發生呢好我們來看成功主詐的功勞還是警訊在114年的時候金融機構成功"},{"start":4489.13,"end":4508.027,"text":"的高達一百一十二億的詐騙金流的攔阻一萬四千件這麼龐大的數字背後代表的是詐騙集團依然是極度的活躍當傳統銀行珠寫的百億高牆的時候詐騙集團正悄悄的轉向黃富網上的數位裂縫在哪裡呢"},{"start":4508.667,"end":4513.131,"text":"我們針對在台的移工80萬儘管會核准了5家專營小兒會隊的業者服務超過百萬的用戶80萬的移工在這5家當中登記的帳戶有100萬然後呢我們這個監理效能有沒有跟上小兒會隊的APP是否成為打造高強倉中最脆弱的裂縫呢好在這邊這是關鍵點"},{"start":4535.811,"end":4536.892,"text":"我們現在另外一個議題這千億金流的黑箱"},{"start":4567.872,"end":4586.877,"text":"那到底到了他母國之後的真正的到賬金額是多少呢那以及這中間匯率是否透明隱藏的手續費是否遭到剝削呢所以這個守護移工的許漢前不僅是普惠金融責任更是從源頭斬斷非法"},{"start":4589.679,"end":4607.378,"text":"地下匯兌跟洗錢的關鍵防線好這邊本席有一個建議這從1月21號打造條例金融專章上路之後稅出增加了1.21億錢給了法修了我們監理是不是應該要提升從現在的典範怎麼轉移呢"},{"start":4609.44,"end":4636.535,"text":"一天的這樣的時差是否能夠轉為即時的串接身份驗證的破碎這五家的驗證針對外籍勞工的五家驗證是完全通通不一樣應該要統合是否應該要統合變成Face ID即時身份認證落地這個都非常成熟的技術了匯兌成本的黑箱手續費跟匯率我們是否也要啟動專案精簡透明化"},{"start":4639.076,"end":4656.781,"text":"被動式的防堵應該要轉為主動的預防尤其是法尊科技的主張好我們細說分明這個API全面即時解決金融機構跟移民署能夠針對非法警示的賬戶即時的趕快的借 接起來"},{"start":4658.461,"end":4668.986,"text":"時差的零秒的接接起來當下阻斷那對於合法的外籍帳戶呢我們就應該要實施金融行動身份及時的識別那能夠杜絕人頭的門戶跟人頭帳戶以及第三個會查跟手續費"},{"start":4678.251,"end":4691.247,"text":"應該針對這五家零有執照的匯兌公司進行專案精檢一樣符合三個原則符合金融消費者保護法的規範強烈揭露最終到賬的金額落實普惠金融跟"},{"start":4693.209,"end":4707.184,"text":"這個消滅地下會隊的誘因那這當然這個其實第四件事主委你有在做那我更期待讓亞洲資產管理中心高雄專軍成為全球科技主柵這個法尊科技的束縣點"},{"start":4708.365,"end":4729.357,"text":"基地這邊我還是要給予肯定因為你們的這個即時化的這樣的一個借街從過去的一個月的借街變成現在一天的借街可是光是這樣子我們可以從去年的兩萬一千九百三十二個警署下降到今年第一季的一萬六千"},{"start":4730.618,"end":4754.576,"text":"多戶這表示什麼外籍移工的警示帳戶下降代表了台灣打詐的政策針對移工進行更強有力的源頭控管在技術上切斷了詐騙金流的一大來源本席會有今天這個質詢其實就是接到了澄清我們有非法勞工那他要怎麼會對呢當然他還是希望他覺得透過我們這五家是比較好的"},{"start":4755.316,"end":4762.684,"text":"但是他的身份是非法那怎麼辦呢他到過合法的移工賬戶所以專門有合法的移工專門在做這樣的服務為非法的勞工非法的移工有多少人呢在台灣號稱十萬人哇 你看這個傷機合法的移工做這件事的傷機多大"},{"start":4776.92,"end":4801.775,"text":"那但是合法的帳戶他開了好多帳戶所以呢其中有一個是警示帳戶被鎖住了所以這個非法的移工帳戶他的錢就到不到他的母國可是這個合法的移工已經收了他的錢了好那就是從這邊本席去發現到哇那這也是打炸的天堂的漏洞啊好那主委你針對本席的這事項啊您怎麼看從即時的借接臨時差"},{"start":4803.456,"end":4815.993,"text":"那包括這個合法帳戶的這個即時身份的認證以及專案精簡針對這五家以及法中科技落實在我高雄的雅致中心你怎麼看呢"},{"start":4817.33,"end":4835.376,"text":"謝謝委員 針對這個問題了解得非常的深入而且就對於這裡提出了蠻具體的建議有剛才那個借鑒的部分那個逃生門還有時差的問題還有就是KYC能不能做整合我想我們銀行局在這邊對這邊都有一些比較細緻的管理我請局長來簡單跟你做個說明"},{"start":4838.446,"end":4862.107,"text":"謝謝委員的指導 那這分兩個部分跟委員報告就是說外籍移工對於我們台灣在防詐這一塊的漏洞有分兩個部分 一個是他來台灣的時候他會去銀行開戶那在銀行開戶的部分 我們現在已經跟移民署做借接也就是說剛才委員這邊有提到 只要他是逃逸或者是刑方不明等等相關的資料會馬上就串接給銀行 銀行就會把他的帳戶給鎖起來"},{"start":4863.308,"end":4884.927,"text":"那另外一個區塊就是剛才委員有提到五家外籍移工匯兌公司的部分因為外籍移工匯兌他們只做匯兌他們不會給外籍移工去開帳戶所以現在歸管的部分就只有匯兌前要不要讓他們進出的問題那這個部分呢我們未來也會依照委員的這個指導我們會把外籍移工匯兌公司的相關的資料"},{"start":4885.567,"end":4908.565,"text":"讓他更充足因為他目前現在只有做KYC的部分也就是說外籍移工他要做匯款這個動作他會對他做KYC但如果說今天這個外籍工他本身是一個逃逸的好那你針對本席針對這五家賬戶及時的串接你能不能做得到對這個未來我們也會找這五家那包括這個身份認證你要不要其一"},{"start":4909.486,"end":4929.617,"text":"而且即時身份的認證是是這個部分我們也都會依照委員包括這五家也是要保障這些外籍勞工的血汗錢你要不要啟動專案精檢呢目前都已經有對這五家外籍公司包括他的手續分跟費率你都掌握嗎對這個部分都有在我們檢查的範圍裡面"},{"start":4931.078,"end":4957.487,"text":"好那這個部分本席蠻有蠻質疑的因為我所知你們我不需要很明確的數據但是這個呃呃呃呈情上來講他們也覺得在這五家當中他們不是透過手續會都會對嗎我就是這兩項的我如果手續會收低我就是匯率就會我就會從這當中著手去對我的外籍勞工呃這個賺錢啊"},{"start":4959.048,"end":4983.081,"text":"所以這當中你還是不能有偏離市場的一個機制或者他在那邊賺錢很辛苦結果仲介是一筆了然後這個又再一筆匯兌的錢又再一筆所以我覺得你們專案金錢要落實在手續費跟匯率上我覺得還是要有一定的市場也不能讓這五家自己去按照他們自己認定的市場機制去做"},{"start":4984.242,"end":5005.967,"text":"那包括主動預警的部分法尊科技這個在我們的這個高雄雅致中心去落實好那我想就從這四大科技監理這四方面我們來防堵我們會就是強化就是在那個教育的安全跟維護外籍移工的這個權益我們會持續往這方面努力好謝謝以上謝謝委員謝謝林大華委員請下一位諮詢委員劉淑冰委員諮詢"},{"start":5025.031,"end":5028.377,"text":"好有請彭主委請經管會彭主委好謝謝主席你好好等一下喔"},{"start":5041.145,"end":5053.951,"text":"主委金管會在邁向2050淨零碳排的入境當中是扮演著不只是監理的角色更是推動者的角色透過綠色金融的行動方案現在已經推動到3.0 4.0階段它也是一個推動到永續活動"},{"start":5059.813,"end":5075.373,"text":"但是現在在掌握的15兆元資金的政府四大基金當中包括阿爾斯、郵政、老保、退府基金當中被預算中心指為投資的組合過度集中在高碳排產業在汽油街頭跟投資轉型的計畫相當不足"},{"start":5079.938,"end":5093.969,"text":"那這個內容上面我想說既然金管會呢在金融綠色金融當中扮演的推動者角色如果讓這樣屬於分屬到四個部會勞動權序部跟交通部的這個四大基金政府基金當中可以讓這樣子的氣候風險的管理資料納入對"},{"start":5098.513,"end":5112.86,"text":"那個謝偉那個其實我們也看到了過去一直有人提出就是說政府所監管的四大基金它是一個具有投資的能量這部分的話應該也要符合"},{"start":5114.641,"end":5140.197,"text":"這個所謂綠色投資這樣一個基金那確實剛剛委員也點出個重點雖然金管會在推動綠色金融我們主要針對金融業跟上市公司的資訊揭露那再來就是這四大基金呢是隸屬於我們幾個部會那有機制讓在行政院中讓這三大部會然後四大基金去做一個協調在他的投資項目上面可以有透過金管會的這樣的促進然後能達成這樣子資訊的揭露嗎"},{"start":5142.859,"end":5156.947,"text":"我們在很多場合我們有提供我們的經驗跟給這些其他部位做參考因為畢竟他是一個投資人的角色他投資的標的他應該選擇比如說像以前我們就說從開始做一個綠色的投資"},{"start":5157.907,"end":5182.94,"text":"因為主要是它是基金要投資這些標的嘛那我想說我們在很多場合有機會我們就會跟其他各個相關的部會去提出這樣的一個建議啦因為我想說這並不是金管會主責的方法對 但是這就是問題了金管會主委我覺得您在這邊都是會比較是一個消極的譬如說有到跨部會的事情的時候也許是您可以在行政院院會當中或是不是行政院當中現在自己有一個那種永續的會的機制去做例如說把這種以科學簡單為基礎的內容的"},{"start":5187.682,"end":5189.883,"text":"資訊呈現出來那你之前有提到到IFRS這邊的S2 S1這邊部分是可以繼續促進嗎沒有看到因為我們的未來包括在CBAN上面的這種會受到關稅上面的一個要徵稅的時候那怎麼辦呢"},{"start":5206.789,"end":5222.009,"text":"像我們在做的就剛剛報告有提到我們對上市會公司跟金融機構要求按照會計準則S1這部分去揭露的部分我們已經排定了時程表他就必須要來做這是我們在會按照這個計定的程序來做"},{"start":5222.89,"end":5243.749,"text":"那剛剛提到說政府是有分工的我剛剛不是說委員剛剛提到不是說我們就是這個我們就是遇到這就消極這不是我們轄管我也沒辦法幫他做但是我們在很多場合包括我們很多的這些相關行政院層級或是其他總統府層級我們都也有人提出這個問題我們也會提供那沒有一個時程表2050年再25年24年就要到了耶"},{"start":5247.652,"end":5267.032,"text":"這份綠色金融是您的部分那我當然也要講到你剛才是說對上市上過的1600家對不對但是呢這邊大概成這個它的規模可能已經達到大概三四倍的兩三倍的我們的GDP啦可是在另外的其他家的我們台灣市以中小企業就又非常重要的這部分有沒有這邊部分也可以提供"},{"start":5268.526,"end":5286.147,"text":"所以這邊你們的這種的綠色的金融的指引其實就是很重要的啦對 其實剛剛委員提到沒有錯我們剛剛裡面有一個這個永續經濟活動指引裡面就告訴你就說比如這個產業要做到什麼程度是符合永續的我們現在進行第三階段"},{"start":5288.45,"end":5306.717,"text":"第三階段就公告這些什麼產業該怎麼做標準在哪裡這兩個很重要的意義就是說假設你產業要轉型你可以按照那個指引來做你是投融資的人你可以看說他有沒有符合這裡面的指引你進行投融資就會符合這個所謂的綠色金融所以我們是透過這兩方去做的"},{"start":5306.997,"end":5334.816,"text":"那你們有沒有什麼時候規劃大概到一個多少比例已經指引了其實已經涵蓋大概百分之六十以上那就可以再去進行包括可能有些必須要處罰的有沒有這種規劃跟委員講我們總共將近兩千家上市公司我們已經排定了這個時間金融業優先一百億以上優先在五十億到一百億的然後五十億以下的我們都有一定的時程他們就按照這個時程來做但是你還是在最大型的部分啦就是我這次提醒喔"},{"start":5335.997,"end":5362.979,"text":"彭博主委你這部分可能還是要肩負起因為銀行對於中小企業還是要融資嘛尤其是淨雲太白是全球在做台灣也是不能夠例外的嘛對不對我想你必須要擔負起這個責任那另外是否如歐盟訂定永續分類法當中去揭露所有投資組合就是對於所有的這些內容上面應該是說針對減碳氣候適應或循環經濟等推動的投資永續活動這個準則上面也是能夠大力的去推廣"},{"start":5363.439,"end":5384.952,"text":"所以我們現在剛才講我們永續分類就參考歐盟那個來做的我們已經進入到第三期 涵蓋了產業但是我還說這部分應該還是要去呈現其他中小企業啦當然他們也是可以適用啊因為它裡面的職業是針對產業所以不管是大小公司他都會去看說我要怎麼做才符合這個所謂的永續的活動"},{"start":5386.354,"end":5405.527,"text":"這跟委員講是一致的沒有沒有沒有 因為你們這邊的排碳量特別對歐盟這邊他特別在前面的是有所謂的減碳這邊部分那我們的很多的能源的部分是很高的那事實上包括的是現在核能部分是不是可能在裡面包括在能源部分有沒有什麼相關的規範執行當中對能源的部分因為排碳大戶是在能源的部分啦"},{"start":5406.287,"end":5434.721,"text":"對 我們這裡面會根據不同的產業我記得先開始針對高碳排的產業進行這些所謂的分類指引那我們現在慢慢進入到各個產業去我想產業會越來越多剛剛委員提到就是說那細節是非常非常多的產業我這邊沒辦法一下跟委員說那是不是可以請這部分你們現在已經做的部分再給我們一個報告可以啊 沒問題啊就是我們把那個前兩階段的指引的部分以及內容還有就是我們現在過去在金融業推動綠色金融的成績我都可以給委員參考"},{"start":5435.441,"end":5436.342,"text":"我們是定在那個財報裡面就是幾乎是位階非常高了"},{"start":5449.827,"end":5473.279,"text":"喔 位階非常高 用財報裡面要求就對了財報是法律的要求啊好 但是問題還是那1600家公司嘛 對不對因為我們主管就是上市櫃公司啊對 所以我真的是除了你這部分 不然我要到國發基金上面去提供了你們這些部分 你的角色可以再做大一點因為全國都去打這件事情啦那就這部分請你要再強化你的角色好不好在跨部會的角色"},{"start":5474.6,"end":5483.411,"text":"好 那我們繼續往下看在另外一個是關於您在前幾天有提高的這樣子一個訊息是在於說"},{"start":5486.77,"end":5500.122,"text":"這個連續受益人的信託在100年內不管資產交易多少代原則上就只剋稅一次那這個剋稅一次的時候有這樣子的一個懷疑是在說踐踏了租稅的公平那現在想請問金管會說 主委說這筆稅金在目前的具體規劃運用是怎麼樣既然政策上面有引發這樣子社會不公平的這種疑慮之下呢是否沒把這個如果承諾的這個收的"},{"start":5512.833,"end":5520.678,"text":"不管是什麼樣的經費拿到之後可以用在消米貧富差距的相關政策上面真正做到所謂社會資源的分配"},{"start":5521.394,"end":5548.204,"text":"我想這個媒體應該是誤會這個意思他並沒有踐踏租稅公司他只是把現有的租稅制度講清楚因為過去這個遊戲規則不清楚導致這個商品沒辦法在市場上出現我想這個其實後面誤會了應該講說我們現在的那您現在要澄清啦對對我們已經在很多地方澄清過了我想說我們在其他地方也會也會跟財政部一起來針對那個他的含釋出來各位就很清楚這不是不繳稅"},{"start":5549.124,"end":5575.157,"text":"就是因為他進入信託的時候他就是一個信託他繳一次贈與稅接下來任何一個受益人領到錢都要繳所得稅不是說只是說他贈與稅只課一次因為他本來就只有一次的贈與他每年徵所得稅嗎不是你在受益人拿到這個這個信託受益的時候本來就你的所得就要課所得稅啊所以如果做一次轉換的時候他就有一次的這樣子要課稅的機會是嗎那以前是因為他對這個信託架構"},{"start":5576.978,"end":5592.581,"text":"講不清楚大家有個疑慮說會不會比如說這個受益人A去世了以後轉移到受益人B的時候會不會還要再課一次正義稅其實財政部只是把這個東西講清楚你契約條款講清楚以後他就能跟你講說這個就是在一個"},{"start":5593.802,"end":5619.947,"text":"同一個地位的受益人的時候其實上他可以只課一次贈與稅但是裡面每一個人他取得受益權的時候他是要課這個所得稅而且他有個前提就是委託人跟受益人對這個資產是沒有控制權的情況之下所以細節很多外界就執意為就只課一次這樣產生這個結果我想我們會對外加強說明那這個執意你會說韓式大概什麼時候會出來還是已經出來了"},{"start":5620.327,"end":5627.429,"text":"沒有,我們要跟財政部,這是財政部的執掌,我們會請他盡快地針對這個內容那這個制度預計什麼時候要實施?這個就是韓市出來以後,那個業界就可以根據這樣的一個原則設計產品那產品以後呢,有需要的人就可以來進行這個信託契約的簽訂,這個市場就會開始"},{"start":5643.894,"end":5664.92,"text":"那是不是得把這個機制金管會跟財政部上面的互動的這種機制讓我們更清楚一下可以沒問題我想說主要是因為大家可能簡化這個問題就是看到這標題就只可以是稅其實不是其實這次也沒有修法只把過去的問題講清楚了讓市場明確化以後讓過去我們這個幾十年來沒有辦法解決問題透過這樣這個部門之間的協調把這講清楚讓市場有個明確遊戲規則還是按照現在的那個稅法來課稅"},{"start":5673.243,"end":5680.207,"text":"好 OK 那我們希望得到你們的報告是是是好 謝謝主委好 謝謝劉書斌委員下一位諮詢委員 請王世堅委員質詢謝謝主席我請金管會鋪主委請金管會鋪主委委員長"},{"start":5701.551,"end":5718.028,"text":"我剛聽了一下還是聽不懂您剛才的說明確實你們在5月5號是由金管會你們所發布的你們發布的就是說為了打造具有我們台灣特色的亞洲資產管理中心這非常好"},{"start":5719.277,"end":5733.623,"text":"那麼我們就是要開放就是連續受益人信託也就是說存續期間可以在一百年一百年內一百年內不再重複課稅就是不會再被課證與稅與轉稅那其實"},{"start":5739.205,"end":5761.525,"text":"這個坦白講就是讓台灣富豪的錢留在台灣這本來未嘗不可在我們台灣用我們台灣的環境台灣的人才大家一起賺錢他們的錢留在台灣本來就應當只是增加一些誘因但是這個很清楚的他變更了這麼一次第一次設立的時候那麼"},{"start":5762.766,"end":5773.67,"text":"只要收一次的這個證明稅或者那時候的遺產稅再來一百年就不用啦你剛剛說但是獲益者他也要去繳所得稅"},{"start":5777.162,"end":5800.215,"text":"不講這一筆遺產稅或者贈與稅本來所得人也是要繳所得稅啊所以很明顯的這一百年內就是減免了他的遺產稅或者贈與稅嘛這很清楚的啊也就是這個叫做百年避稅大門啊"},{"start":5802.438,"end":5830.181,"text":"那等於為這些富豪們開了一道巧門那表面上說是要吸引他們在台灣吸引他留在我們本土台灣這是理所當然但是不能用這個名義來大開他們方便之門這造成我們國家社會貧富差距的加大而且快速的加大"},{"start":5831.092,"end":5845.328,"text":"尤其最近這個物價指數在波動 澎澎在起的時候那變成平者越平 富者越富那個 主委"},{"start":5846.823,"end":5870.023,"text":"我說實在話你為他們這樣著想其實一開始發想可能不是你啦但是你冷靜想喔這麼多年來財政部是幫富人免除富人稅然後現在弄這個百年信託他丟給你要你來宣布要你幫富人免除遺證稅"},{"start":5873.342,"end":5878.748,"text":"天啊那你們這是我說不客氣的這叫高揚好一對寶財政部當時這麼做的時候本來當時104年到106年我們還有富人稅就是所得稅最高級距稅45%結果來到107年2月"},{"start":5897.796,"end":5914.42,"text":"那天也不曉得怎麼搞的 太陽大了一點 風大了一點財政部突然間就把所得淨超過一千萬的 適用45%的稅率這個規定把它刪掉 也就是刪掉了富人稅光這麼一刪啦那個 彭主任知道嗎光這麼一刪下去算一下 稅損100億"},{"start":5924.861,"end":5937.004,"text":"我們國家大剌剌的直接就這麼大筆一揮幫富人省了100億的稅金當年就這麼一年所以我認為知識體大絕對不是說我們為了"},{"start":5942.694,"end":5965.884,"text":"打造亞洲資產管理中心我們讓我們台灣富豪的錢留在台灣台灣富豪留在台灣的錢不要說理所當然啦光是誘因就一大堆那個主委我們跟國外的跟國外的這些遺政稅相比我再來講說我們全球最高的遺產稅率日本啦55%"},{"start":5971.571,"end":5975.254,"text":"韓國南韓50%法國45%美國英國40%西班牙俄瓜多南美洲國家35%愛爾蘭比利時30%"},{"start":5989.878,"end":6012.208,"text":"我們台灣呢我們台灣最高級距20%大概是所有我剛剛所列的全世界OECD國家裡面他們比較正常在對富人課稅達成社會公平的這些儀政稅你看人家他們的"},{"start":6013.915,"end":6039.826,"text":"這個比例是這麼高從45一路下來到30而我們只有20%所以現在對我們台灣而言這個誘因已經非常大了因為富豪們如果錢要移出去他也不可能移到這些OECD之外的國家我剛剛名列前茅的那一些大概都是往那些國家跑嘛"},{"start":6040.899,"end":6051.569,"text":"不可能說他跑到某個某一州太陽更大的地方摧毀小國去放在那個地方政情也不穩"},{"start":6053.43,"end":6082.469,"text":"重置經濟各方面條件不可能的事情嘛所以往這些國家走的時候相較之下我們20%非常正確非常合理所以我認為不必要為這些富豪開啟百年信託免稅這樣子的大門好不好主委你先前的表現因為你學界出身我發現你有學者的風範"},{"start":6084.09,"end":6099.341,"text":"你對於我們社會正義如何落實台灣價值台灣價值第一個最重要的就是我們整個台灣社會要公平大家公平的工作權公平的繳稅權"},{"start":6101.363,"end":6117.195,"text":"公平的教育權這些是我們台灣最堅持的台灣價值所以這個部分不要隨便輕易改變那還有一點就是說去年有一筆我覺得很奇怪我希望你要站在保險局這邊站穩立場"},{"start":6119.176,"end":6132.971,"text":"就是說新光神社在去年外匯價格變動的準備金他們在去年年底本來有996億突然一日之間他把它調低到521億也就是說減了475億這個外匯價格變動準備金"},{"start":6140.674,"end":6161.524,"text":"那麼當然新光他們去合併之後他當然他們會計師有他們的看法但是這麼大金額這麼重大的變動他當然要報請主管機關保險局也就是金管會由你們來決定要跟你們商量結果A部他先斬後奏天啊"},{"start":6168.396,"end":6182.195,"text":"如果任何一家保險公司任何一家金融公司這麼重大高達475億這麼重大的變動他就可以先斬後奏那簡單講"},{"start":6184.42,"end":6208.166,"text":"那我們金管會的大門可以拉下來了不是嗎那這樣算我們金管會做什麼所以這一點我認為保險局他們有一定的堅持他們怪罪星光人壽沒有來報備核准我覺得這一點保險局是非常非常正確的他維持了保險局應有的風格"},{"start":6209.65,"end":6215.566,"text":"我們尊嚴還有我們公權力我們在人民當中我們的公信力"},{"start":6216.843,"end":6238.631,"text":"所以這個部分我希望彭主委你能夠支持他們找新光來講清楚告知他你不能這麼做這就是我們金管會還有我們保險局我們的風格我們為社會把關這是我們最重要的公權力還有公信力好嗎好 謝謝"},{"start":6244.626,"end":6249.271,"text":"謝謝王世堅委員質詢再來請接著李昆城委員質詢謝謝主席我們請彭主委請金融二彭主委"},{"start":6264.913,"end":6278.913,"text":"主委好這個最近有涉嫌偷拍的艾爾利然後它引起很多爭議然後很多民眾也要求要退費然後要求要退費有些是分期付款可是遇到一個問題"},{"start":6280.094,"end":6304.497,"text":"因為這個艾爾利就跟他們講說這個你如果要來分期呢你必須要先補滿全額才能夠整筆刷退因為他說這是銀行的規定請問一下有這個規定嗎我想這個這部分我請銀行局來跟您回答這過去我們曾經有比如健身房之類的這個案例的處理情形我請銀行局跟您講"},{"start":6305.851,"end":6324.859,"text":"包委員那個使用信用卡做分期付款我們都有一致性的規範那個個案的部分是不是容許我回去了解之後這不是個案喔這就是說他們有很多的遇到這種情況因為現在很多要申請就要退費嘛然後他就說這個你是用分期付款的啊那我不能現在退給你啊你除非你把那個"},{"start":6326.311,"end":6352.029,"text":"這個錢都把它繳滿對不對我要先繳滿我才能夠整筆刷退不可能發生這種事情吧對 因為如果就是剛才委員所描述的這種狀況應該是不會發生因為過去我們在做信用卡這個分期付款的時候對於未完成那個服務契約的部分這個部分我們不管是收單或者是相關的那個那個發卡機構都會本於保護那個持卡人的權益去做相關的進行所以銀行沒有這個規定嗎"},{"start":6353.983,"end":6382.034,"text":"不會有這樣子的一個規定那如果我們消費者遇到這個問題那當然有一個是像消保會那我們的這個金融批評中心可不可以來做協助也可以那所以呢我是希望說這個因為現在有很多網友在這個臉書或在推上他們有遇到這個類似的問題啦那我是覺得說他們把責任推給銀行那我認為不會啊因為像這種類似分期付款所遇到的一些問題那你還沒有你這個你還沒有付錢的"},{"start":6382.734,"end":6399.01,"text":"剩下的那些餘額當然是可以不用再繳啊因為過去相關的消費爭議在信用卡的架構底下我們對於沒有完成服務的這種契約我們都會本於就是維護資產我是覺得金管委就這部分因為這個牽扯到"},{"start":6399.651,"end":6427.413,"text":"的問題蠻多的而且現在看起來不是只有愛爾利可能也有其他類似的都涉及到頭版那很多業者很多消費者他們希望能夠退費那我是希望說是不是儘管在這方面我們把我們這個退費的一些原則把它說清楚不要讓這些店家去跟消費者講說這是銀行的規定銀行的規定所以我們都是配合銀行的規定但是我去查了一下銀行沒有這個規定我是希望說是不是能夠把"},{"start":6428.614,"end":6443.263,"text":"這個我們退費的這個原則再把它說明清楚我是覺得說最近可能很多人會有這方面的問題好不好好 這個回去我們會找收單跟方卡來了解一下好 OK好 謝謝局長那這個再問一下這個"},{"start":6444.673,"end":6458.286,"text":"主委最近股市很熱大家投資股票或是投資ETF現在是不是用ETF只要再投入的情況越來越多"},{"start":6463.296,"end":6484.481,"text":"這部分我們看到現在確實我們現在的融資餘額是比較高四千多億但這個細部資料我要去了解一下才知道是不是拿ETF就是說因為現在就是要買ETF然後發現說可能現金不夠了那是不是我用只要的方式我再投入那反正去跟"},{"start":6485.049,"end":6511.104,"text":"捐贈借錢比較快 可能比銀行借錢要快這種情況是不是越來越多啦 我問你這個情況我想剛才就講說我們現在的融資比例 它本來就有擔保品所以這個當然融資越高 那我說細節是不是以這個為主比較多我說我在這邊沒辦法直接跟委員說 但是我們看到融資以為是在上升中啊但是就是說達到一個4000多億的水準 我想它質押什麼我們要去了解一下"},{"start":6511.864,"end":6532.219,"text":"那是不是有這個券商公會希望說能夠放寬這個榮通的總金額佔淨值的倍數還有這個負債淨值比的建議我們在上個禮拜四的時候有很多委員關心因為這個媒體的報導我想我們上次也跟大家說這是他們在那個法規調適平台裡面公會提出的意見"},{"start":6533.584,"end":6552.648,"text":"提出意見以後現在我們交給交易所在研議中他們會有這個不過我們上次也說了我們現行的規定說你帶放的總金額包括不限用途包括融券這些的總金額不能超過你淨值的4倍就400現在我們看還不到160"},{"start":6554.989,"end":6569.597,"text":"可能有幾家公司可能比較高他自己做的內控的限縮那產生這個結果他們確實有在透過那個調適平台對這個東西提出的建議我們就按照請那個交易所在演繹中那自交所那個林董這邊"},{"start":6573.204,"end":6588.935,"text":"跟委員報告那事實上陳如剛才主委講的在平均的這樣子大致上大概1.6 1.9他們要求的倍數那我們現在也積極的去再跟工會我們棋局這邊我們自己再研議"},{"start":6590.157,"end":6594.681,"text":"那到底這個在風險的控管的情況之下呢現在的資本市場的轉變我們事實上來講的話我們怎麼回應證券商這樣的需求所以我們還在協議當中因為有說這個主要的這個11家的券商其中有這個10家"},{"start":6609.895,"end":6627.872,"text":"他們關於這一個不限用途的款項借貸的水位接近飽和了有這種事情嗎據我們了解事實上來講的話是沒有是沒有那所以說現在變成說大家也擔心說那會不會說這一個銀行自己在認為說現在因為"},{"start":6630.602,"end":6643.937,"text":"這個熱度比較高了所以他們自己呢這個自己先做一些緊縮的一些動作然後呢也暫時呢這個申請暫停申請這個額度然後利率呢可能也要往上調目前有這個現象嗎"},{"start":6645.699,"end":6655.165,"text":"我跟委員報告事實上來講的話關於這些信用的這樣的一個功能我們都希望證券商真正能夠落實自己的KYC他自己做好了風險的控管而不是從銀行端那邊來啟動我覺得這個部分的職責跟他的那個風險事實上來講大部分是證券商去承受的所以我們也要求我們的建商輔導部呢針對於這樣子的KYC的落實"},{"start":6676.099,"end":6686.084,"text":"更加的嚴謹的去看待他了解證券商的他的營業的韌性那證券商現在是不是也沒有錢了到處去找錢啊"},{"start":6687.527,"end":6715.583,"text":"上面有錢到處去找錢不會剛才也跟委員報告基本上他們的水位都還有一定的額度但是他們當然他們也希望就是說可能是證券市場相對來講比較active所以他們當然希望有更高的這樣的一個比例但我們還是在跟他協商之後因為必須要考量其他更多的因素啦不是單純的我想這個也是在溝通的過程裡面那你大概多久會有一個你們研議的一個結果"},{"start":6717.521,"end":6741.579,"text":"我想我們會盡快啦因為回應我們生態系的各個特別是證券商 特寫這些公司我們基本上都是會希望能夠快速的來處理這些事情大概有一個時間吧 大概多久我們看看能不能"},{"start":6745.508,"end":6748.631,"text":"最後再請教一下主委威金集團的主席沈信金"},{"start":6764.665,"end":6784.816,"text":"招臺北地檢署依證券交易法特別背信罪提起公訴招求刑26年主委你知道這件事情嗎新聞媒體報導我看到這個外界也在問說金管會是不是會依法解除企業的經營權"},{"start":6786.923,"end":6813.633,"text":"對 我想在這邊沒辦法跟委員討論這個個案我們會來討論不是啦 我們就是說如果一般來講啦就是如果你是這個違反了這個特別背信罪被提起公訴因為這個也不是這個案子之前也有類似的案子啦那我是說按照這個一般的這個做法如果你違反了這個政交法的這個特別背信罪或是其他的那這個儘管會遇到這種情況要怎麼做"},{"start":6814.76,"end":6840.554,"text":"對,我有看到媒體有專業人士提出說你可以這樣來做當然我的意思是說我們對這種狀況我們還是要花時間去了解這個狀況我想這邊我就不方便針對這個個案說怎樣不是針對個案啦就是說一般這種情況你要怎麼做因為遇上這是公司治理的問題嘛那你如果一個公司的這個負責人他特別背信還有其他的一些刑事"},{"start":6841.054,"end":6847.957,"text":"刑事罪被起訴了,金管會的做法是怎麼樣?每個案子都有很多獨特的地方,過去我們曾經使用過這個,我們要看那個狀況是如何再來做比對跟評估"},{"start":6859.861,"end":6866.563,"text":"按照經管會一般處理的通案遇到企業經營負責人遇到這種事情,那你該怎麼處理?那我請局長跟委員報告過去我們怎麼處理好,那簡單請局長回答"},{"start":6878.291,"end":6901.69,"text":"報告委員,那我們管理上市櫃公司是依照公司法的規定,那公司法是要判決確定我們才有權截人嗎?要等到判決確定嗎?對,公司法第30條的規定不是起訴就可以做處理嗎?不是不是不是要等到判決確定才能做處理那剛剛委員提到的那個是我們特許事業的一個管理,那一般的上市櫃公司我們要依循的是公司法的規定"},{"start":6903.891,"end":6909.192,"text":"好 謝謝李崑禎委員的諮詢下一位諮詢委員 請李燕秀委員諮詢謝謝召委 我可不可以邀請主委請金管二鵬主委五分鐘"},{"start":6928.314,"end":6950.283,"text":"主委早安我在預算報告當中有看到你們揭示我長期關注的TESA個人投資儲蓄賬戶它最主要的目的TESA其實有幾個最主要的目的一個就是鼓勵民眾可以做一個長期的投資為退休做準備另外就是資本市場可以再做一些不同的發展不同面向的發展"},{"start":6950.783,"end":6962.69,"text":"那我們的TESA是我今年1月份已經質詢過這是我第二次質詢從去年7月上路到現在已經一年的時間那我們來看看它的成果目前看到就是超過13萬個人開戶開戶數總共有13萬人那參與的投信公司總共25家加入的基金總共45檔那大概總共的資金規模137.7億元"},{"start":6974.736,"end":6979.763,"text":"那我拿這個是一年初步的成果所以還不到一年將近一年的時間那我們再來看看日本的狀況日本的NISA目前它的開戶數當剛開始開滿一年的時候總共有825萬戶"},{"start":6991.9,"end":7009.217,"text":"他的資金規模達到7500億元雖然日本人口數是我們的5倍但是我們看到我們跟他的差距是63倍差距之大所以我想請問就教一下主委"},{"start":7010.718,"end":7035.848,"text":"這中間的因素到底在哪裡而且目前我觀察到就是說這13萬戶開戶的人口數當中到底這所有的戶開戶的人到底有沒有真正在做運作跟投資還是他是一個空帳戶的狀態就是一開始的慶祝行情我開戶但是我事實上我沒有任何的運作"},{"start":7038.129,"end":7059.447,"text":"這個就是跟我們當時要推動TISA的目標事實上是相違背的那當時主委我關注的時候你有提到說未來我們會有一個漸進式的一個處理的方法所以我想就這樣我問到現在就請主委稍微回應我一下問題一點我們跟日本跟英國比包括英國我有一個統計數字"},{"start":7060.848,"end":7075.278,"text":"英國的政策還不錯,他有不同的誘因在那你先說一下,到目前我問的我覺得三個問題啦,有關日本我覺得是這樣日本其實過去民眾參與資本市場比率非常的低"},{"start":7076.636,"end":7102.67,"text":"就他們實際上比如說我們大家很關心比如台灣一般一般民眾參與資本市場的比例日本在當時應該可能只有十幾%還不到20%當然我的數字是這樣所以政府就是希望他們把很多的這個能夠所以他透過這個租稅優惠他應該會很快第二個是因為日本他是免他的那個鎮鎖稅我想這個是一個很大的誘因我想這個制度不同"},{"start":7103.91,"end":7129.633,"text":"他投資收益免稅嘛他本來參與率就很低一般一般民眾的話他日本市場是以法安市場為主過去他希望增加一般民眾的那個那個參與的程度所以透過這樣的租稅一定定額的部分你去交易呢可以不用有那個那個所謂鎮鎖稅因為台灣沒有鎮鎖稅了台灣只有鎮交稅主委主委其實你講到一個重點就是我現在跟你探討就是說"},{"start":7131.074,"end":7145.926,"text":"不管日本他們的其實點他們投資的管道多不多但是個人儲蓄投資帳戶在國家的就是說在資產上的分布我們有重要的目標跟核心的意義在所以"},{"start":7146.686,"end":7168.954,"text":"這個結果又凸顯出我們是不是在獎勵的優惠的部分不夠以英國來說他的個人儲蓄帳戶他是資本利的免稅那日本他是投資收益的免稅那我們再來看看我們是什麼樣的狀況我們是免手續費雖然降低門檻但是對長期純股戶而言他並不是他核心決定要不要投進來的理由"},{"start":7169.454,"end":7190.962,"text":"那我們另外一個我們管理費略低在5%的 僅作用於5%的現金部位其餘95%跟現在ETF的費率跟市場差不多所以我們現在又因為我們的AI半導體不錯最近股市又漲到4萬點以上所以很多人跟我說那我寧願放進去短期的投資放進去ETF他就不願意放進這個長期的這個投資的概念當這個我們的個人儲蓄帳戶裡頭那另外"},{"start":7197.324,"end":7202.548,"text":"我們不配息的設計成價只有2.11的保費但是單筆需要單筆大於兩萬塊才會有感相對於小資族受益其實是沒有的所以您剛才提到一個日本的核心就是說他們在獎勵的部分或免稅的部分或相對的免息免稅的部分他們的條件就比我們好"},{"start":7223.064,"end":7243.26,"text":"所以這樣子的政策我們是不是要去做調整如果說你提到說你有漸進式的策略我們看看日本看看英國我們是勢必要去做調整的你怎麼看這件事情我剛剛提到還有一個問題就是我們這樣的增加是不是虛開沒有真的做其實我們從數字來看應該不是他現在每個月大概都會增加"},{"start":7244.541,"end":7272.188,"text":"大概一萬兩千個新戶頭從他的那個累積的資產跟扣款的金額都相對的增加我想這部分應該剛剛委員關心的就是說這十三萬戶是虛開那不會這個在吉寶那邊都有在控管那再來就確實剛才講說我們去年是因為沒有租稅優惠的時候先上路但我們今年的時候在今年約會那個主委因為我時間有限你預估目標你今年會達到多少"},{"start":7272.828,"end":7299.977,"text":"今年目標的話 當然是我們今年有兩個目標啦或者是在核心的優惠政策上你有沒有跟財政部做討論有 現在我們已經跟財政部在討論如何去進行符合台灣這樣租稅現有租稅架構的一些的租稅的優惠怎麼樣來助力長期的這個投資然後來協助建構支持第三支柱啦這部分我們已經跟財政部在討論如何透過這樣的一個租稅"},{"start":7300.857,"end":7326.272,"text":"主委我要提醒你 你要跟部長多溝通我們現在就是個人金融的商品特別的扣除每一年的上限是2.4萬長期的投資2.4萬是不是能夠這個扣除了是會不會擴大貧富受益的差距剛剛提到就是說我們希望大家都可以做長期投資但是對於有一些人來說他每天的薪水都不夠用"},{"start":7327.748,"end":7343.871,"text":"他如何去做長期的投資根本不可能所以如果他有那麼一點點錢譬如說剛投入社會的年輕人他每年就存了幾千塊五六千塊我寧願去買短期的ETF我不可能我沒有錢去做長期的投資因為他"},{"start":7344.372,"end":7361.626,"text":"不夠靈活不好用所以主委這些方案我覺得也要考慮到不同族群他實際所面臨的問題我們希望各族群都可以做長期投資剛投入社會的年輕人他的第一桶金他每個月存下來的錢他也可以進來去做投資什麼樣的"},{"start":7363.411,"end":7372.553,"text":"優惠政策他可以願意進來我覺得這是要思考的另外一個我最後一個問一個問題是我上次問的30萬戶的那個那個保險保險保險員的問題我不再去討論說他是承攬還是商業關係還是雇傭關係主委像有一些勞資上面的爭議我們都是要要求就是說未來就是他們他們有保險爭議面臨事後救濟的時候"},{"start":7387.697,"end":7412.957,"text":"因為他是本人一個人到公司去做一些溝通就是說到底發生什麼問題他可不可以邀請代理人或律師一起進去溝通因為如果他對於法規不夠熟悉的時候有時候會面臨就是說公司會做出停止招攬的登錄或撤銷登錄這個對於一個保險業務員來說我A公司把我懲處了我B公司我可能不能再有同樣的工作對他來說這個衝擊非常非常大"},{"start":7415.959,"end":7421.624,"text":"所以這件事情怎麼去做處理跟解決因為這樣的狀況其實我在工會常常聽到像是這部分上次也有針對開了工廳會我想現在剛剛委員提到可不可以帶那個代理人這部分我請那個局長來跟您簡單做說明一下"},{"start":7438.054,"end":7442.421,"text":"報告委員可不可以由代理人來代表這個問題因為這是實務上的一個問題容我們可以再研究看看"},{"start":7448.359,"end":7467.941,"text":"主委我要提醒以日本來說我們現在是走民事訴訟的救濟日本它是有主管機關它可以有問題你可以送到主管機關來去做一些處分或做成更高公信力的處分我覺得可以比照日本的做法這是我提供你們的一個建議"},{"start":7469.102,"end":7497.984,"text":"那另外就是說我們可不可以研議像懲處的規範是不是未來可以研議像公司法的定制它的工作規則必須報主管機關來去做後續的核備而不是只有公司他們自己可以做一些處理就是說能不能研議像公司定制工作規則要報主管機關核備一樣要求公司定制懲處的辦法要送金管會核備"},{"start":7498.965,"end":7524.307,"text":"他到底有哪些方向可以去做懲處可不可以送金管會來做核備我想委員剛才建議兩個啦就是說他遇到糾紛可不可以參考日本的做法由律師或代理人我想我會請保安局來演繹這個做法剛剛局長也說了再就是說他對這個業務員的員工工作管理規則剛剛委員說請我們演繹說是不是要經過我們的核備或同意這我會請他一併演繹"},{"start":7525.071,"end":7548.296,"text":"好 謝謝主委一個月之內好不好可以好來我最後一個問題上次我們提到的就是說做教育訓練的部分也許公司可以委託可以去做教育訓練但是我個人認為譬如說像醫事人員做教育訓練他只要他可以繼續選擇就是說他到底要公會來辦還是公司來辦只要我個人認為只要建立一個完整的課綱私資的認證還有包括後續課時的後續的審議的標準"},{"start":7552.677,"end":7575.714,"text":"其實我覺得由誰來辦其實都是可以的我覺得應該有更多的彈性所以我想這三點是不是可以建議就是說後續去研議一些方向出來一個月之內回覆我們財委會那也可以因為剛剛有關那個葉文嘉的訓練我想上次公聽會是有共同我也提出來對委員提到是再更寬一點嘛他本來已經同意由工會來做一個代訓單位了"},{"start":7577.656,"end":7586.222,"text":"我們現在請搜尋工會來處理那這部分剛剛委員提到我請他一併這三個議題一併謝謝主委謝謝李彥秀委員再下來請陳玉珍委員質詢謝謝主席我們請這個彭主委請金管會彭主委要問一個保險局跟等一下是政情局保險局"},{"start":7608.308,"end":7610.431,"text":"王局長 政期局高局長那個"},{"start":7615.208,"end":7643.34,"text":"首先要先在這裡肯定我們這個保險局在之前這個質詢我上一次質詢的時候3月18號在我們這裡質詢討論有關於這個就是小三通這個部分小三通這個延誤這個旅行不便險的旅平險的這個部分不便險這個部分我們3月18號質詢以後不到一個月我們金管會就已經提出報告然後產險公衛已經研擬了附加條款五月底應該就會正式開賣所以這個肯定你們是這個行政效率"},{"start":7643.78,"end":7660.091,"text":"高啦 的確有把老百姓的這個 要的這個痛點放在心上齁這個先跟你們做肯定啦齁謝謝委員那接著我想請教齁 這個這是小山東這個是我們這個在地的議題那接著我想請問那個政企及這個相關的也請主委齁講一下這個國際化的議題台灣的這個資本市場齁"},{"start":7663.593,"end":7665.355,"text":"最近一陣子應該近幾年來特別的夯特別的熱門我看現在幾乎全民封股票現在是號稱是全球第幾大市場"},{"start":7674.983,"end":7702.065,"text":"現在市值大概第六第六大我看到九啊七啊六啊市值啦市值啦那很熱絡啦但是這個台灣的企業尤其我們這個科技產業這麼強但是我們發現我們在這個這個正我們的這個相關的法律制度面上有一個制度性的空白我要提的是一個這個所謂雙掛牌的這個這個制度不知道那個我們主委怎麼看呢這個就是雙重上市或是第二上市在國外"},{"start":7703.12,"end":7723.807,"text":"我們現在有相關的法令嗎?有,我們現在已經很多KY公司就是這個那是指,你說海外的公司到台灣要來掛牌嗎?這叫KY公司,我說的是以台灣為主要市場的公司我們知道現在台積電到,我們講台積電大家比較聽得懂在海外有美國的ADR"},{"start":7725.928,"end":7744.081,"text":"這個是用一種衍生性的金融產品我說的是本身在台灣為主要市場的這個公司在台灣在外國也可以上市要麼做第二上市要麼做這個雙重上市我們有相關的法令嗎沒有啊那個知道的人回答一下沒關係"},{"start":7747.774,"end":7760.968,"text":"報告委員 我們目前本來就是有一些雙掛牌比如說我們的ADR已經有那個不是掛牌 那是在海外你們懂得什麼叫雙掛牌我先講一下什麼叫雙掛牌那我們台灣也有TDR"},{"start":7762.301,"end":7777.289,"text":"ADR是一種衍生的產品不是真正的雙掛牌您看一下我的這個上面寫的它是一種工具不管GDR、ADR或可轉換這個債這個東西都是一種以台灣股票為基礎衍生的憑證或是債券它不是普通股直接掛牌"},{"start":7778.482,"end":7795.835,"text":"你了解嗎?你看我也寫得很清楚這個我們做過很深刻的研究現在國際的這個市場我們現在雖然是全球第六大市場但是現在證交所應該比較懂了現在全球市場不管是美國、新加坡我們說這些市場中他們市場都已經在吸引全球的資金我們還有這麼多好的科技產業生技產業這一類的產業"},{"start":7799.037,"end":7823.73,"text":"如果要到海外去提升自己的國際競爭力知名度吸引海外的資金到海外去做雙重掛牌我們現在這個法令就是沒有完全沒有任何的法令所以沒有人知道該怎麼做那個曾教授這個董事長基本上來講的話我們可以看得出來像我們台積電還有我們不只台積電啦其他包括中華電信或什麼樣都到美國去所謂的雙掛牌"},{"start":7824.75,"end":7830.482,"text":"沒有 那是ADR對 ADR ADR不是雙掛牌你真的懂什麼叫雙掛牌嗎你先看一下 我寫在這裡"},{"start":7832.317,"end":7860.865,"text":"實質的雙告牌全世界都有在研究這個已經有在做這樣的事情了來 你看下一頁美國 新加坡 香港都有在做這樣但是我們台灣就是沒有相關法因為可能連你們也不怎麼理解你們沒有到國外考察過嗎有 這個其實都是雙告這都是Dual listing的一種方式對 我說是第二上市或者普通股去上市不是去哪裡的這個去當一個憑證去當另外那叫衍生性商品嘛"},{"start":7862.403,"end":7886.932,"text":"所以你們對這方面所以沒關係我想我們國內在我請主委來委員我這邊跟你報告一下所謂的第二的話那他一定是會有先第一才第二所以假如是Dual listing第二到海外去的話就是我們董事長剛剛講的像TSMC 鴻海 中華電信等等那你要第二出去的話呢有遠古或者是DR的方式那DR的話有ADR或GDR的方式"},{"start":7887.452,"end":7911.39,"text":"第一就是一種衍生性的商品我想請教的就是說你們看一下外國怎麼做我們看一下外國怎麼做好不好我們來看一下美國新加坡和香港怎麼做好不好現在台灣在這個部分在我們的證交所我們證交所現在是全球第六大證交所那全世界的資本市場都在吸引企業都要吸引資金如果你沒有這樣的做法"},{"start":7911.73,"end":7934.591,"text":"很多好的企業說不定如果你只用這種衍生性的你是ADR、GDR衍生性的金融商品商品的話你就會讓有一些優秀的產業優秀的應該說優秀的企業他不一定要選擇在台灣做上市因為他只能選擇一個吧那可能香港是一個好的市場新加坡是一個好的市場甚至美國是一個好的市場好沒關係那這個部分的話主委的看法怎麼樣"},{"start":7935.54,"end":7952.3,"text":"我想剛才委員提到過去我們確實都是以比如在美國是用ADR嘛用純透屏陣的方式DR的部分來做嘛那過去台灣也有 剛才提到有TDR那在剛才教育所有回答說在我們認知裡面這方法很多種那剛才委員提的是另外一種嘛"},{"start":7952.921,"end":7975.85,"text":"我提的是實際的掛上市而不是衍生性金融產品的上市實質上的效果應該是非常接近是不一樣的至少我們在這一部分沒有相關的法令看起來因為我看你們的回答裡頭我們沒有這方面的或你們有沒有做過這方面的研究我們不要說法令好了你們有沒有做過這方面的研究"},{"start":7976.898,"end":8004.709,"text":"對 我們現況剛才幾位同仁跟您報告過就是我們現在用ADR的方式在美國對 那有沒有考慮學習香港學習新加坡學習美國做這樣的制度呢沒有 我想學習參考這個研議應該都是這個這本來就因為台灣 對就說我說啦就是因為國際上很多制度很多市場都有很大的不同我們其實交易所我們在過去很多地方都提到"},{"start":8005.529,"end":8022.616,"text":"我們說要成為一個國際級的資本市場我們都要關注各式各樣的方法吸引各式各樣的不同的參與者我想這邊委員剛才指教這個方法如果其他國家有類似甚至比我們現在好我們都應該是持開放的態度請他們來做一個研議"},{"start":8024.138,"end":8042.173,"text":"所以我這邊已經有做過一個相關的因為很多大的企業他們一定是有這樣的需求也有人做過很詳細的我們也會提供資料我們也請經管會責成看哪個單位做研究我們會請我們企業局跟交易所請交易所做研究多久可以告訴我呢"},{"start":8050.377,"end":8054.701,"text":"這個多久可以做出研究的我想要看一下那個複雜程度你要回答嗎他們剛才說兩個月兩個月太慢了這個資本市場資本市場進步你這個全世界這個很多這樣的東西很容易現在時代這麼進步你們證交所能力這麼多人才這麼多"},{"start":8069.537,"end":8097.088,"text":"你看看我都幫你大概都整理出來了我這份報告就等一下會提供給您這個對於這個雙瓜牌這件事情是會幫助台灣在同時我們要求說對外國資本市場也會要求對價的嘛他們也要過來嘛那我們整個市場就會更國際化是不是然後我們的企業我們很多這麼優秀的企業台灣這股市有這麼多的是不是就可以更提高他這個國際的能見度我們要評估以後才知道真正的效益在哪裡啦好謝謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":8102.12,"end":8109.206,"text":"好 謝謝陳玉珍委員等一下林思明委員質詢完畢之後 休息五分鐘現在請林思明委員質詢好 謝謝召委 請主委請菁永樂 彭主委"},{"start":8125.182,"end":8136.552,"text":"委員長 是 主委早 主委我看在今年的預算中 金管會有編列金融監理的預算大概是1845萬銀行局也同樣編列了銀行監理的預算約965萬還有檢察局也編列了金融機構檢查3082萬"},{"start":8147.941,"end":8172.17,"text":"但是我們看到政府我們天天也在宣導說這個如何打詐與反詐那打詐的成效現在看起來也逐步有顯現但是我們很遺憾的我們現在看到卻是我們銀行內部的人員包含了這個職務像是經理的、鄉里的卻勾結詐騙集團來賺取民眾的辛苦的錢或者幫詐騙集團來洗錢"},{"start":8174.531,"end":8181.054,"text":"像最近媒體報導的台中銀行有六位主管疑涉勾結詐團開設商號來協助博弈詐騙集團收款洗錢超過新台幣36億"},{"start":8190.638,"end":8213.797,"text":"但是這些鄉里或者是經理他們的職務卻是聞風不動完全沒有受到任何的一個影響那依據媒體的報導台中地檢署在上個月起訴金管會才發布這個新聞補充說明說表示說這是金管會移送的"},{"start":8214.958,"end":8233.816,"text":"但報導中指出我們從時序上來看監管會是在去年的3月就發現台中銀行涉嫌協助這個詐騙集團但是到了12月才這個函報調查結果沒有澄清稿不是這樣時間上不是這樣嗎因為他報導是這樣所以我現在就很疑惑說奇怪"},{"start":8238.16,"end":8253.881,"text":"怎麼我們在這個3月就已經發現有這個問題其實不是的文英如果有時間我待會跟您簡單說明一下主要是這樣我們去現場檢查的時候比如我們3月去到一個月後收隊那去檢查的時候會帶回很多的資料"},{"start":8254.622,"end":8277.378,"text":"那回來資料比對後發現有異常再去跟公司要資料然後發覺這個是可能有一些狀況所以我們就聯絡我們的駐匯檢駐匯檢察官大家評估以後這要移送所以這個整個程序就是這樣因為並不是說一到就一到就發現我想這是一個要整個檢查經檢要八個月喔不是"},{"start":8278.098,"end":8306.09,"text":"委員其實我們去檢查的時候有我們既定的檢查的內容只是我們會帶回很多的資料回來做分析不是立刻就可以看得出來只是說我們今天在分析的時候發言說就抽絲剝繭以後其實這個正常程序但外界就直接從移送跟我們出發的那一天一檢說你就有八個月這實在是天大的誤解是啦 這個金管委員大家主委剛剛一直強調你們有你們的一個程序這也非常合理好像"},{"start":8306.91,"end":8323.784,"text":"奇怪怎麼會調查那麼久時間時序太久了難怪外界會對於這個所以我們在第一時間就做澄清因為外界忽略這個事實我想就像比如說我們常常去調資料回來要去查證去看"},{"start":8324.324,"end":8345.39,"text":"而且呢要跟我們的檢察官討論你今天有說明啦但今天我也給你充分時間說明我想這個金管會我們看到媒體他又報導他說僅韓子分行在今檢調查出追查才查出中正北同以及投份分行都涉案"},{"start":8346.69,"end":8361.223,"text":"才查出來啊說你們警函信給函信說這個台中彈指銀行有問題啊所以媒體 他說媒體媒體採訪的時候你們表示震怒你們才表示震怒啊不是啊 委員你這個就是說"},{"start":8362.324,"end":8380.483,"text":"委員非常清楚就是說我們是行政機關我們沒有去搜索調查權我們從資料裡面看到兩家我們就覺得這個東西要請檢調為什麼移送他才有搜索跟調查的權利他才能夠查到這個詳細的內容我想這個不是說我們又不是所以監管會監管的權利是那麼小"},{"start":8381.304,"end":8407.593,"text":"我們是行政機關我們沒關係我們不是減掉啊但是還是有一定的權利我們已經盡我們所能從藥的資料裡面看到一些不法的狀況所以這部分我們過去合作都是這樣主委我想後來金管會媒體採訪裡面表示震怒並表示要請總經理董源來喝咖啡陳述說明"},{"start":8408.813,"end":8437.059,"text":"銀行局的副局長張副局長在23號 上個月23號表示說此案是金管會 蓋妮提到的主動發現並移送檢調我們對於銀行勾結詐團是不能容忍剛才您也一再提到那麼近日也會請高層包括總經理到金管會說明案情依調查情節追究相關人員予以懲處請問咖啡喝了嗎"},{"start":8438.619,"end":8465.146,"text":"當天就剛才你講我們已經請他來過因為他有一定程序請他來說明跟陳述意見啊所以已經請他們來了嘛那我想已經離現在也4月23離現在也已經將近這個20天了目前這個懲處的結果怎麼樣我想我在這邊不會去跟委員報告我們各個案的我們的行政進度啦我想我們剛才講說我們會按照相關的行政程序來處理啦"},{"start":8466.746,"end":8485.576,"text":"是 所以我們不會因為說這個案子看到起訴書然後就馬上予以懲處當然 我想委員非常清楚我們不會看新聞辦案 我們自己有自己的其實我想任何不管我們的檢調不管所有行政機關都不會因為這樣而去做這件事情所以我現在我蠻訝異的我覺得金管會蠻保守的"},{"start":8491.238,"end":8500.649,"text":"這個案子已經被起訴了還可以讓這六個人在他的職務上聞風不動你們還沒有任何的一個我真的知道我會請局長跟您說明一下要趕快來把他職務調動或做一個立即單機立斷的一個懲處的一個動作八位員那個"},{"start":8507.256,"end":8524.478,"text":"相關人員的部分董事會他們已經把相關人員調離現職了是那相關行政程序處理的部分如同剛才委員有講到我們是那個檢察局檢查發現所以相關我們在做這個行政調查程序其實都已經在進行當中是"},{"start":8525.519,"end":8553.938,"text":"對啊 那現在已經起訴啦起訴你們的就已經有相當的依據啦那到現在還不做懲處喔不是 委員我們在行政懲處有一定的程序 比如說我們把釐清事實以後我們會有一個那個那要到什麼時候 判決之後一審判決還是要判決確定才做懲處檢調機關什麼時候起訴我們沒辦法決定但是我們自己一定要給民眾 比如說我給他 請他懲處一天回來我意思說現在已經起訴了你們要等到什麼時候才要懲處他啊"},{"start":8555.679,"end":8584.027,"text":"我剛才講說我們會懲處我不會在這邊報告我什麼時候會懲處他我們會按照程序起訴之後還是判決一審判決還是判決確定你可不可以給我一個這個這是兩套不同的體系啦行政機關不會斟酌檢察機關他的一個起訴書或者一審的判決書我們會斟酌所有的東西但是我們講兩套程序不一樣像檢察官也不會因為我們裁處而起訴也不會因為這樣有這是兩套不同的體系行政機關有自己的"},{"start":8584.928,"end":8604.59,"text":"當然我們行政機關的我們整個的議署過程有他一套程序的程度主委謝謝但是除了這個案子我們看上個禮拜剛剛委員提到就是剛才他已經被調離縣只是媒體說他是這樣其實不是聞風不動我想這個上週五月七號媒體有報導新光銀行西門分行中信業務經營"},{"start":8606.011,"end":8634.007,"text":"涉嫌加入詐欺集團詐得金額大概六百萬所以可以說類似的案件其實並未間斷所以金管會我想請教一下你到底要如何更有效的提出有效的措施來遏止銀行內部這些高階相關的一些主管跟這些詐團勾結來發生這些不法的事情"},{"start":8635.087,"end":8657.35,"text":"對 當然委員的旨意跟指教都非常正確任何這個案子我覺得我們責無旁貸但是我覺得我們也是要盡量的盡我們的全力來防止這個我們每一個案件因為不斷發生我們還是期許金管會希望金管會對未來類似這種案件不要讓它一直發生"},{"start":8659.391,"end":8674.3,"text":"應該有效的來去做監管那當然是不想這件事情監管會真的要加重這已經是我努力的目標了好謝謝謝謝委員好 最後一題請主委我們金融機構的警示賬戶在110年到這個去年9月底"},{"start":8675.04,"end":8682.548,"text":"統計有64,678戶增加到154,327戶增幅高達138%整體警示帳戶就持續在攀升目前因為我們大家一直提出質疑所以增幅有趨緩"},{"start":8698.024,"end":8726.563,"text":"但是金融機構的防護機制我們在主詐就是惡質詐騙的犯罪擴散但對於異常賬戶的控管的機制引發了違反比例原則以及影響我們正常客戶的正常金融交易權益的一個爭議所以在主詐與擾民之間僅有一線這個情況之下到底我們金管會要如何的做到精準的反詐比如說內政部"},{"start":8728.624,"end":8752.269,"text":"內政部這個警政署有這個針對他們114年度的一個防詐的一個打詐的成效以及111年度的精進打詐作為他們有做一個這個一個報告專案的一個報告跟評估金管會會做這樣的一個對於這個議題金管會如何的來平衡這個民眾的權益"},{"start":8754.69,"end":8769.011,"text":"其實打詐阻詐之間你們要如何來精進來作為有沒有未來會不會做四方面的一個我當然我們其實在做我想去年發生幾家銀行他比如說物控客戶引發很多的那個問題所以我們也請銀行工會"},{"start":8769.952,"end":8793.018,"text":"去跟相關的銀行做更精準的打賬優化他整個過程還有對於客戶進行通知還就是24小時線上處理我想這部分本來剛剛委員講的很對這兩一限資格那我們盡量把它負重減少剛剛委員那個資料你一直統計到110年9月其實從去年11月開始就是往下降了往下降的趨勢沒有就整個的最後時間的關係我想"},{"start":8799.561,"end":8808.875,"text":"我們會繼續來努力希望在金融的控管與金融的便利之間我們金管會要取得適當的一個平衡好 以上謝謝林副理委員現在休息五分鐘"},{"start":8829.608,"end":8835.132,"text":"因為他們的那個我們都不介入他們的業務當中我們不介入"},{"start":8866.146,"end":8868.327,"text":"嗯嗯"},{"start":9196.148,"end":9196.469,"text":"來 按鈴請官員就座現在請羅明財委員質詢"},{"start":9225.287,"end":9251.645,"text":"主席個人主席歡迎大家主席可不可以請主委請親管會彭主委彭主委你好委員好那股市4萬點會不會站穩沒有我想委員那個抱歉就是我我不會對我們的股市進行任何正式的這樣的評論那4萬點會不會站不穩"},{"start":9255.43,"end":9268.125,"text":"我答案是一樣的因為有兩萬後來就有三萬三萬現在有四萬點現在全民都很關心因為最近我又提了一個案子叫做"},{"start":9270.103,"end":9297.993,"text":"國民資源金那國民資源金大概是一萬那我們還是希望股市繼續熱絡一點因為很多人說那普派現金一萬塊那現金這個預算從哪裡來當然有人就向準了股市熱絡的發展現在日劇量大概每天大概有一兆吧這個集中交易市場跟櫃買加起來差不多"},{"start":9299.55,"end":9322.264,"text":"那如果說有一兆的話 那這個錢不要賣兆啊 留下來啊 留下來給民眾啊因為徵交稅的這個稅務預算 大概以前預估大概3800億 今年預估會有多少這要問財政部 我想今年的平均成交量確實比去年多出蠻多"},{"start":9323.532,"end":9331.039,"text":"對 大概會有7500億左右啦甚至到8000億所以扣掉3800億其實還多大概4000多億是綽綽有餘的啊"},{"start":9336.633,"end":9354.531,"text":"我想稅收的收支有我們財政部主計處來決定啦是所以我們希望說股市繼續熱絡可是當全台灣股市暴漲很多人賺了很多錢可是很多人沒買股票啊"},{"start":9355.902,"end":9384.997,"text":"一些基層的民眾一般的小老百姓當然還是苦哈哈因為他們手裡沒有台積電也沒有聯發科通通都沒有可是經濟成長的果實應該要多多來照顧基層的民眾所以本席提出的這個國民資源金一人一萬塊主委正不贊成我想"},{"start":9386.843,"end":9413.968,"text":"委員委員有你的主張我想這不是我站在今晚會主委可以來回答的問題是那上一次普帕現金一萬塊你有沒有去領有有嗎我上一次提出說普帕現金一萬塊的時候有一些不了解的人就罵罵罵罵罵除了罵他們也不支持不支持最後要領錢的時候一萬塊大家通通跑去領"},{"start":9414.943,"end":9441.826,"text":"你知道有多少人去領這個普發現金一萬塊我想最近看到新聞應該只有少數人沒有去領對 超過99%的民眾都去領這個普發現金一萬塊其實道理很簡單不需要就不要去領嘛那你有需要的人去領這也很天公地道啊那因為現在民眾生活苦哈哈"},{"start":9443.899,"end":9470.042,"text":"台積電暴漲一千兩千塊可是民眾看的是他的雞腿便當其實漲到一百四十塊貴了七十塊那誰來負擔那薪水也沒有漲啊特別是很多的年輕人小朋友學生對於這一萬塊他們是殷切期盼啊因為一個家裡如果有五口的話"},{"start":9472.043,"end":9485.448,"text":"爸爸媽媽三個小朋友一人領一萬他可以自己買一些文具用品或者是肚子很餓的時候經過麵包店至少自己也可以想買麵包就可以吃個麵包啊所以"},{"start":9489.543,"end":9516.532,"text":"國民資源金一萬塊不是以前就有而是因為中東的戰爭造成石油暴漲造成物價飆漲所以這個錯不是在民眾啊所以我們先來幫忙資源金來這個推動普發現金再來一次一萬塊希望主委也能支持"},{"start":9517.912,"end":9544.622,"text":"我想跟委員報告過這不是我們金管會的職長範圍我也無權為其他的部位回答您這個問題不過這樣其實你只要把你的工作做好股市穩定比如說現在520到了會不會有520的慶祝行情我想市場每天都在變化這部分我想我們關注的是市場的安全穩定跟透明"},{"start":9545.694,"end":9569.987,"text":"可是主委我看你也是很辛苦啊而且樂在其中像禮拜六禮拜天當大陸都在休息的時候你也積極的到處的宣講啊我們台灣股市很好啊這個是你自己樂意去參加這樣的活動嗎我想主要是宣導我們雅致中心政策啦那我倒是沒有針對股市做特別的說明"},{"start":9571.12,"end":9594.255,"text":"有宣導就表示是一個積極向上的力量所以你扮演很重要的角色如果台灣的股市繼續穩定未來甚至4萬點到了以後我們還可以上看5萬點所以在這個時刻我們現在台灣的市值占全世界的交易量是第幾名"},{"start":9595.382,"end":9606.563,"text":"現在我們大概應該超過如果說應該每天都要變超過140兆嘛那如果這樣如果換算成美元的話大概就是很多媒體也講大概第六第六名是不是"},{"start":9606.963,"end":9629.335,"text":"再接再厲好福氣主委有什麼辦法可以讓台灣繼續蓬勃的發展變成是世界第一有沒有機會假設我們經濟持續的發展那自然我們的資本市場就會反映我們自己的經濟實力那你覺得各個局長裡面哪一個比較厲害"},{"start":9630.066,"end":9650.576,"text":"我覺得我們的同仁都很厲害啊都很厲害既然是厲害就要掌握這個千載難逢的機會把市場做大特別特別是有很多的法規應該要鬆綁啊你覺得下一步如果講三個點來改造整個台灣的股市你覺得有什麼地方要做的比如說"},{"start":9651.776,"end":9680.622,"text":"F4賺得很滿撥滿現在最有錢的大概是台灣證券交易所他手上有多少現金可是要問我們林董林董麻煩一下OTC也一起上來F4已經有討論很長的一段時間了你每次都說沒錢沒錢你F4集合在一起在台灣上市讓全民共享全民來認苦啊"},{"start":9681.782,"end":9709.427,"text":"英國也有啊美國也有啊請問一下現在台灣證券交易所裡面有多少現金大概一百多億一百多億對那去年的EPS是多少七點八八今年八八今年預估是多少今年第一季我們現在大概是第一季三點三塊三塊多所以今年有可能超過EPS一個股本超過十塊好下一個請OTC"},{"start":9714.524,"end":9740.276,"text":"請說跟委員報告OTC差不多也差不多100來億也100多億齁那去年表現的情況如何去年我們是稅後啦稅後大概有20億20億齁那EPS大概多少我們是那個財團法人沒有EPSOK那今年預估也會不錯啦好下一個齊教授有沒有來"},{"start":9741.392,"end":9769.044,"text":"今天是主要預算的答詢或是請兩個交易所來是 我想那個既然是預算其實大家也看起來你該花的也差不多啦跟去年也都差不多一樣但是我們希望說就是主委有一個創新的力量Innovation讓整個台灣現在市值第六名可以站到第五名第四名"},{"start":9770.083,"end":9792.246,"text":"因為你的表現很重要你股市如果穩定稅收如果增加非常的豐沛剛剛很多人在問那國民的資源金每人發一萬塊錢哪裡來我說不用從哪裡來就從彭主委身上來你把市場再做大所以剛剛講的這個F4會不會去推動"},{"start":9793.857,"end":9814.865,"text":"我想他們在資本市場上 他們會各盡其職 努力的去做他們該做的事還有第二個方法 可以做什麼事 讓台灣的市值 整體的交易量更活絡 更活潑譬如說全世界的主權基金 你們要去招商 讓他們進來 讓台灣看得到"},{"start":9816.946,"end":9839.92,"text":"其實這是每年我們交易所例行的國際活動這部分我們也不斷的在海外做roadshow還有就是我們像我們前陣子打造那個創新版或是我們櫃買針對這些其他新上市櫃的鼓勵越多的這些好的企業進入到我們資本市場當然能夠讓我們的資本市場持續的壯大好 最後一個"},{"start":9841.492,"end":9864.005,"text":"國內的主權基金你正不正常來推動我想政府有整體的政策那我們儘管會扮演我們該扮演的角色最後一個國安基金的規模要不要提高到兩兆本席所提的上次已經有問過你有請教過莊部長莊部長應該有給你答案他也願意一兆再問莊部長謝謝謝謝羅明財委員的諮詢再來請顏光騰委員諮詢"},{"start":9878.582,"end":9883.649,"text":"主席各位理事官員大家好主席有請今晚會彭主委請今晚會彭主委主委好"},{"start":9890.521,"end":9910.97,"text":"主委 金管會115年度預算案施政目標與重點的第三點略有持續推動金融服務業公平待客原則引導金融服務業精進建立以公平待客及誠信為核心的企業文化"},{"start":9911.93,"end":9923.135,"text":"我國108年推動平和至今已經超過6年但是審計部指出在111年到113年間證券商、售險業及產險業各有一家業者連續3年排名處於後20%"},{"start":9930.959,"end":9955.024,"text":"後面的20%那這三家業者連續三年改善無效顯見現行的一個原體改善計畫已流於形式那畢竟他怎麼改還是倒數所以我想請問主委針對這一類的這種類型的業者那今晚會除了要求寫計畫書之外還有什麼更強力的行政指導或者是炒法的一個機制"},{"start":9956.204,"end":9976.075,"text":"我想公平代課他的績效已經列入在我們監理的指標之一他如果這邊除了這個排名他持續在後那我們對很多監理措施也對他會有做一些差異化的一些的監理我想當然這個連續排名在後那當然有他的原因我們會持續來督促他改善"},{"start":9978.215,"end":9999.206,"text":"繼續督促他改善那有沒有更嚴厲的一個配套機制要求計畫改善那如果說改善無果那有沒有更進一步的這樣子的一個機制我想公平待客他是一個相對比較的結果就是說其實我們也看到整體我們在那個評鑑的時候也會看每年每年公平待客整體有沒有往上走"},{"start":10000.126,"end":10026.302,"text":"就是說其實上我們看歷年來其實公民代課的成績是有在往上走只是這幾家公司比如這一家公司可能速度還是比別人來得慢所以他就一直往還是排在後面我想這部分我們還是會看他具體改善的狀況好所以114年我們就委外辦理平和就是委託這個財政法人中華民國證券期期貨市場發展基金會是的"},{"start":10026.542,"end":10048.439,"text":"希望藉助這種外部專家的一個專業意見還有廣大多元的一個廣泛觀點提供這個受平和業者可以線上查詢自身這樣子的一個總分級距還有各項這種平和的一個指標但是目前業者能夠查詢自身狀況只有業者可以查詢"},{"start":10050.06,"end":10069.803,"text":"那對廣大的一個金融消費者來說並沒有辦法得知說哪幾家是連續三年表現最差的黑名單所以這樣子無法保障我們這些廣大的金融消費者那所以目前的機制是說只有連續三年排名後20%的業者被要求原體改善計畫"},{"start":10071.144,"end":10093.876,"text":"但是這些改善計畫在公共資訊層面都是被隱藏起來的所以消費者在選擇金融商品的時候缺乏風險預警那問題就來了所以說金管會是不是敢於公開連續多年排名後20%的業者名單來利用市場的力量讓業者進行改革我想在"},{"start":10095.086,"end":10115.037,"text":"在前幾次委員會有委員提出類似的建議我們現在當時我們這個制度先以比如鼓勵所以我們是獎勵前面後面的部分我們才採用內部去管控的方式也有人關心說未來可不可以把它公佈出來這點我可不可以請我們主辦的那個林處長來跟委員簡單說明好 簡單說明"},{"start":10117.758,"end":10146.254,"text":"跟委員報告其實這部分公平代課因為它本身每家公司情況可能不一樣像在整個那個保險或是營養都有不同的像純網易這一部分但後續的部分我們會盡量來促成整個公平代課要連續三年表現那麼差也不簡單但是說既然沒有想要改善那就公布出來嘛對不對我們不需要去替他隱瞞讓市場的力量讓消費者去市場力量來要求他更正要求他更新好不好好"},{"start":10147.674,"end":10172.588,"text":"過去我們只要求說這些後段班的業者提改善計畫但是事實證明說這些關起門來的這種輔導是完全無效所以我在這邊說希望說能夠有更嚴厲的一個配套措施這種平衡的制度如果沒有更進一步的話我們會只是需要行政資源只是需要行政資源跟預算所以好的那我想主委你先請回我請那個營養局局長"},{"start":10176.857,"end":10204.653,"text":"同局長委員好好 局長我國自111年6月實施打詐行動綱領那112年113年分別通過1.5級2.0版本就是希望諸位你可以先請回希望能有效地打擊不斷進化的這種犯罪形態"},{"start":10205.973,"end":10228.901,"text":"那今晚會在其中擔任這種統籌機關啦所以執行各項的這種防詐措施那局長你應該知道因為我們都非常重視打詐的議題上個禮拜我們也才就這個無卡提款詐騙的這個議題來進行討論那雖然政府端已經有宣導說告訴民眾不要把提款卡"},{"start":10229.561,"end":10238.544,"text":"隨意的交給任何人但是我們可以從數據面看到金融機構1110年到1113年間警示帳戶的變化這個從到113年底這些警示帳戶是149274戶跟110年年底比較增加了84596戶增幅達130.8%"},{"start":10258.951,"end":10277.867,"text":"那截至114年9月底金融機構警示的帳戶持續已經增加到154,327戶我想請教局長說你認為儘管會強力宣導的情況之下為什麼人頭戶的數量仍然會這樣子增加這麼多你可以告訴我為什麼"},{"start":10278.487,"end":10298.495,"text":"好跟委員報告所以我們也非常正視這個問題那我們在去年就建立了相關的管考指標在四月份執行之後那個成效已經陸陸續續浮現所以從去年的十月份開始銀行的警示帳戶數大概每一個月都往兩千到三千戶往往下降那目前是多少"},{"start":10298.715,"end":10318.268,"text":"到目前為止我們到最新的數字到115年的3月底已經降到了14萬3千戶那就我們了解3月份還是持續往下降已經快降到14萬戶以下了好的那我想再請問局長你認為說除了這樣子的作為之外還有什麼樣的方法可以"},{"start":10319.088,"end":10341.865,"text":"做得更好我們這個部分都會持續在跟警方特別是高檢署這邊有一個平台我們會持續的跟檢警調這邊來協助在現行的規定之下因為我們金融機構跟VSP沒有辦法進行這種跨越的一個照會那所以如果發現了這些犯罪金流已經從銀行端這個往虛擬資產移轉"},{"start":10345.808,"end":10361.845,"text":"那這種情況銀行跟這個VASP之間無法進行所謂的交換資訊那怎麼樣解決這些問題這一次打造專法的修正之後就授權讓這個金融機構可以跟VASP"},{"start":10362.165,"end":10380.078,"text":"它可以跨業之間去做照會跟資料的一個界階那這個部分呢我們執法在日前也已經找相關業者來討論我們會在五月底公佈相關執法的修法方向未來金融機構就可以跟VESPA進行相關的跨業照會金流跟幣流我們都可以完全掌握到五月底公佈嗎"},{"start":10381.38,"end":10396.46,"text":"會公佈草案的方向大概預計我們半年內會完成相關執法的修法所以這半年的過渡期當中銀行局有什麼具體的行政手段能夠加速金融業跟VSP之間的一個資訊的交換"},{"start":10397.321,"end":10412.546,"text":"是日前我們有找三個工會就是電子工會、銀行工會跟Vespa工會過來在相關執法還沒有正式間接之前這三個工會也必須要透過相關實務上面的一個聯繫跟溝通那能夠把這樣子的一個運作機制給補強起來"},{"start":10415.328,"end":10424.36,"text":"監管會在民國一一四年二月正式發布警示帳戶觀察指標跟督促改善機制核心設計是透過兩項相對化的監控指標篩選其異常銀行"},{"start":10431.409,"end":10431.87,"text":"最新的數字應該是三家"},{"start":10453.611,"end":10471.074,"text":"114年5月的時候銀行局有揭露說是3家啦但是到114年11月是增加到4家了現在又回到3家了嗎是但是這個部分我們有持續在做相關的管控我們會就是說連續大概5個月以上我們才會對外公佈"},{"start":10471.374,"end":10494.675,"text":"你們現在的規範是說最近四個月有三個月被列入觀察名單這個部分就要由總經理來到金管會說明那如果最近五個月內有四個月列入觀察名單就必須由董總親自出面說明那如果當月說明後當月能夠仍然連續兩個月列入觀察名單金管會就會正式揭露該金融機構的名稱"},{"start":10495.536,"end":10519.397,"text":"所以說要在這七個月裡面連續都列入觀察名單是非常非常不容易的所以其實你們除了要求他們提交資料改善報告還有公開目前一直都還沒有公開揭露過任何一家名單所以跟委員報告我們最主要的目的並不是在要揭露重點是要督促金融機構要有效去做好警示賬戶的管控我的意思就是說你們這個規範是相對的寬鬆啦"},{"start":10521.979,"end":10549.478,"text":"這七個月裡面他們必須要連續五個月就超過都變成是一個觀察名單才有可能會被你們公開揭露所以你們是不是應該因為要改善這些目前的狀況是不是應該再有更進一步的措施呢是因為我們重點還是在於說讓整個警示帳戶數往下降那目前這些銀行好謝謝最後了局長我希望說金管會拿出最積極的還有最具實效性的作為好不好不要讓警示帳戶數據持續攀升"},{"start":10551.759,"end":10552.76,"text":"請金管會主委請金管會彭主委"},{"start":10611.213,"end":10626.47,"text":"主席我這個螢幕有問題他說要請資訊處趕快來處理主委我想首先跟你請教一下也是亞洲金融管理中心的一個議題"},{"start":10627.831,"end":10640.422,"text":"因為我們知道說金管會在這幾年最重要的一個業務就是你們積極的在推動這個亞洲資產管理中心那其實到目前為止我們已經看到了一個"},{"start":10641.806,"end":10669.905,"text":"一個不錯的一個進度那這個進度裡頭我們看到了就是說在這裡面有很多的21家外商銀行已經住進了那等一下你試著跟我解釋一下這21家外商銀行大概是哪些銀行還有基本上就是說金管會的統計目前高資產的管理客戶數大概是有2.3萬人"},{"start":10672.067,"end":10679.167,"text":"在這21家銀行裡頭那這個他們也展開了相關的一個業務那如果這"},{"start":10681.575,"end":10703.765,"text":"兩萬三千名的高資產客戶投入在這21家銀行裡面平均每一家銀行都分配到一千我們假設是用這樣子的一個平均化那這樣的市場規模是不是可以支撐銀行長期投入高資產管理的業務這個是我今天要請教你的第一個問題"},{"start":10704.545,"end":10732.003,"text":"是 謝委員那個我們在推動雅資16項計畫有一個就是要我們要促進我們的私人銀行業務那這部分我們原來在計畫推出的時候我們大概應該是有12家銀行開辦這些業務後來我們重新開放了9家現在是21家現在21家對 21家那這裡面有大有小有些人剛進來有些人已經做很久了所以這裡面剛剛委員提到平均是1000人那只是說"},{"start":10733.044,"end":10750.806,"text":"我們開放私人銀行其實是從2019年才開始我們開放之前的時候呢大概就是剛才講說大概是應該是一萬多人就是等於說這個增加在這段時間增加這樣算是那個速度是可以接受的就是是一個不錯的"},{"start":10751.947,"end":10779.461,"text":"而且他管理規模剛剛委員跟他講說如果只靠這些當然不夠但是這是我們第一年多的這一年多來的成績我想未來台灣有很多很多的比如說這樣的高資產客戶那過去很有可能在國內找不到相關的服務他可能會到海外去那現在當國內這些慢慢達到一個到位以後他就會留在台灣所以我們預期這個人數還會持續的在增加"},{"start":10779.961,"end":10797.437,"text":"還會持續再增加那主委我再請教一下就是說我們近期我們有受選公司退出台灣的一個市場那這個跟我們在未來就是我們亞洲資產管理中心那是不是就是說會不會受到影響"},{"start":10798.578,"end":10816.845,"text":"那當然就是說剛才賴思寶委員也有針對的這個議題就是說你是不是會圖利這個有錢人我覺得我們就是幫這些有錢人服務的我們知道就是說很多台商其實他們的錢還停留在新加坡停留在香港"},{"start":10817.805,"end":10832.511,"text":"那這麼多的一個高資產的客戶其實他潛在的是需要我們去協助他所以我在這裡特別問到就是說請教你這些人國外的客戶有多少"},{"start":10833.891,"end":10862.247,"text":"這個國外的客戶有多少那既然就是說儘管會在亞洲那個走那個你既然是走這個高資產的一個管理中心了在未來未來就是說你的國際客戶你從哪邊來這個是我比較想知道的可是就是你要吸收國際的高資產客戶的時候你要面對的就是你的外商銀行的數量不足你的國際金融商品的競爭力不足還有你的稅制誘因有限"},{"start":10862.867,"end":10872.183,"text":"那你的國際金融的華春人才也不足那家族辦公室的制度我們也還不是非常的一個成熟還在就是"},{"start":10874.441,"end":10901.104,"text":"極力的一個那個推動中那真正的關鍵我覺得不是在開放的業務而是在就是說你有沒有具備那個吸引國際資金的一個整體的金融環境主委你看看這些問題是不是試著回答我一下是是所以委員提到的都是非常重要我簡單回答第一個就是上次離開是那個產險公司它規模很小在台灣那個其實跟我們這個影響非常有限是"},{"start":10902.245,"end":10915.018,"text":"那剛剛有人問說那台灣到底有多少現在比如說這些高資產的客戶我想去年我們有看到某家銀行他做的這個財富調查他在預估大概有31點多萬的人是應該有那個3000萬以上的資產那再來剛剛講說"},{"start":10920.143,"end":10947.719,"text":"其實我們在做這件事情剛剛委員講的很好因為我們是全面的開展我們當然要給我們高資產客戶讓我們的金融機構有更多的商品更好的服務更好的人才我想這是很重要我想剛剛委員提到就這個重點就是其實金融服務人才最重要我也看到了這樣一個這個人才回流跟人才增加的效果我跟委員講一個簡單的這個例子過去其實台灣很多的"},{"start":10948.559,"end":10972.782,"text":"國外的國際級的資產管理公司在台灣他們已經很久沒有增加人力了剛才提到就是說現在他們很多已經在台灣社區中心有幾家這些的負責人他們也明確的表達在台灣特別是因為台灣開始有機會他們已經開始非常顯著的徵聘本地跟從海外引進這些資產管理人才到台灣來我想"},{"start":10973.362,"end":10992.709,"text":"我們也做過調查我們當然私人銀行在推動這過程當中整個台灣這21家裡面他到今年年底會徵聘超過一千一千人以上的高階人才進來台灣我想這都是我們在做這件事情可是主委我跟你講顯然你是準備的很周全可是"},{"start":10993.289,"end":11011.448,"text":"台灣的錢太多了這個錢是追著我們這個政策在跑如果說你的亞洲金融資產中心的話那是一個實驗的金融沙盒你打算就是在全台佈置的相同的一個擴展到全台你有這樣的一個計畫嘛對不對有"},{"start":11014.491,"end":11040.079,"text":"你今晚會規劃的到2026年下半年你從高雄開始擴展到全台的時候那你家族辦公室的業務的開放你境外的私募基金還有就是說OBU還有OSU還有ORU的一個整合那你境外的一個資產管理的平台這個代表未來未來就是說不是單只是集中在高雄那你準備好了沒有"},{"start":11041.521,"end":11058.99,"text":"對 就說其實剛剛委員提到就是我們對一些過去我們一般人認為是比較風險比較高或是大家比較不熟悉的產品我們先因為我們也考慮到金融機構的人才還沒有到位沒辦法全台去做這個服務所以我們選擇一個事辦專區來做這件事情就剛剛委員提到在高雄"},{"start":11059.79,"end":11088.051,"text":"那我剛才提到我們也看到我們的金融機構在人才跟整個制度的建置也開始迅速的在發展我想這部分也對未來可以擴展到我們台灣其他各個地方業務的範圍可以擴大也提供了很好的基礎啦我們就會觀察他們現在執行的狀況以及人力的配置專業制度能不能到位我們會來逐步的放寬到其他的地方去然後甚至就是反正就是全台灣都可以來做"},{"start":11088.511,"end":11113.57,"text":"我簡單的問你一個問題像你目前的整體的一個狀況你認為國外的一個保險公司會快速進到台灣這個市場嗎有沒有機會國外的保險公司在過去在台灣確實增加比較少所以我們這次也為什麼會增加的比較少我們熱錢在這個地方我們這麼多有能力的一個消費者在這個地方"},{"start":11114.766,"end":11142.369,"text":"保險公司增加的比較少是因為保險公司做的業務他其實跟我們資產管理相較之下是比較沒有那麼直接沒有像銀行像我們的投信或資產管理業那麼直接但是呢他也是可以做其他他們可以來做的事情那我們也正在規劃中只是說剛剛委員提到的是保險公司在過去這麼多年他可能進入在台灣的這個時機可能跟以前不一樣其實台灣現在的保險公司已經"},{"start":11143.53,"end":11164.827,"text":"有一定的規模而且保險公司是一個非常比較本土化的這樣一個市場境外的公司要來競爭是比較困難的那我想說這部分其他的行業的部分比如說我們資產管理業我看到就是說他們也願意來加大投資還有外國的銀行他也願意在台灣針對這個財富管理跟私人銀行加大對台灣的投資"},{"start":11166.516,"end":11186.107,"text":"所以基本上你是非常有信心的啦那特別跟你提到了一個問題就是說這個制度的限制會不會影響到就是我們雅資的一個管理中心的發展我講出一個簡單的一個案例就是說現行就是我們金管會的一個管理的架構跟保險法規裡頭"},{"start":11188.048,"end":11215.133,"text":"並沒有保險的利益信託受益人原則上就是他沒有辦法直接幫受益人買保險的商品那你們是要用保險法還是要用信託法去克服這個障礙這個我們已經請那個保險局在討論也有人在提出這樣一個建議就是說確實很多國外在做傳承的時候除了我們一般的投資商品以外保險也會扮演一定的角色"},{"start":11217.194,"end":11223.807,"text":"這個我們有請他們已經在做這個演繹看看國外有什麼樣的經驗我們可以來引入到台灣來"},{"start":11224.867,"end":11247.242,"text":"是 所以我想這個非常重要因為那個受託人就是負責整體的一個資產管理那他如果沒有辦法直接操作這個保險的一個配置的話他當然是有很大的一個困難那是不是就是說把這一個進度這個整個研究的進度交給那個書面給董事會請保險局把剛剛那個有關那個"},{"start":11248.263,"end":11249.004,"text":"接著請吳秉瑞委員質詢"},{"start":11276.758,"end":11303.318,"text":"主席請金管會彭主委好 請金管會彭主委委員好主委早這個媒體有在講說台灣的股市的成交量現在除了我們的經濟基本面表現良好之外成交量能夠這樣很快速的攀升跟我們發行了大量的ETF有關這個這樣的講法不知道您贊不贊成"},{"start":11305.439,"end":11332.162,"text":"其實我們有隨時監控ETF到底佔我們的市值規模有多大那現在其實我們看到其實它整個交易量應該還是在個位數相較於比較ETF成熟的比重其實沒有很高那最近的這個主動型的這個ETF這麼紅不是他們目的在市場上當然也是投資者去買這個主動型ETF所以主動型ETF才常常在市場上買股票那這個"},{"start":11333.953,"end":11351.525,"text":"我聽到的規模都蠻大的甚至有上千億的但是剛剛委員大家認為現在很熱門的主動型大概五六千億五六千億的水準以我們現在整個交易量來看跟規模跟市值來看還是相對是小的這個ETF"},{"start":11354.907,"end":11369.542,"text":"我上次有跟你說明我是贊成的為什麼因為我覺得如果讓散戶這個人自己盲目投資他很容易聽信這個市場上的這些各式各樣的言論引發他的不夠"},{"start":11370.743,"end":11397.808,"text":"理性的決策的可能性是比較高的啦但是EDF因為那管理人是一個專業的經理人這一種專業的投資人嘛所以至少他在做這個決策的時候他會是比較冷靜然後比較專業不過也有一個可能的在別的市場上看到的副作用是EDF這種基金這種都有可能助長助諜因為如果大量大家都投投入都去買"},{"start":11400.568,"end":11415.394,"text":"這個買盤的力量很大但是如果大家說看不好的時候贖回的人多他變成他也就被逼的要賣那被逼要賣的時候是賣的時候也會增加所以有被說有助長助諜的這樣的狀況你認同這樣的講法嗎"},{"start":11417.955,"end":11434.664,"text":"我想ETF是在過去資本市場上最近幾年在主要是其他國家開始扮演越來越重要的角色在學術上跟實務上開始有人注意到這個問題因為它的投資的方式跟一般個人的投資不太一樣"},{"start":11435.965,"end":11460.674,"text":"所以這個東西確實我們要觀察一下它到底對資本市場的影響這部分我有請交易所隨時有監控我們也有一個專案在研究ETF對長期從國外跟台灣會有什麼樣影響我們會設定幾個指標在監控這件事情這個是大的方向但是大部分的ETF當然是"},{"start":11461.67,"end":11469.541,"text":"都很健全沒有問題現在出現一個問題是小問題就是說因為他要募資嘛所以等於就是IPO要上場的時候"},{"start":11470.407,"end":11499.645,"text":"他這個投信因為要發行這個EDF他會要求這個發行的這個券商啊要有一定的發行額啊那在這樣的壓力之下有一少部分的有被逼的這個營業員會有這個業績的壓力所以他就是一開始的時候還是比較虛胖的就是等於大家去買但是因為他贖回是自由的啊所以過了一段時間之後贖回而且一開始虛胖啊後面就變瘦身了"},{"start":11500.365,"end":11515.734,"text":"你有沒有觀察到有少數的這個ETF是這樣的狀況我想因為這個去年的時候確實有引發這個問題那我們有請那個政經局跟交易所針對這個東西有一些新的措施我們請那個不然請我們林秀明林董事長"},{"start":11516.594,"end":11542.027,"text":"好 報告委員過去事實上是有這種現象那我們經過跟證券商溝通了以後我們已經把類似相關的內控措施已經訂在他們的內控裡面關於這個部分所以我們的券商輔導部也都是非常嚴厲的在注意有沒有這種現象在發生事實上是不應該為了把這個認購的這個"},{"start":11544.913,"end":11550.999,"text":"額度然後強加給這些營業員這些通路商、券商訂定的這種責任額"},{"start":11554.185,"end":11574.472,"text":"用這樣子勉強人家去一開始這個續放我是覺得這樣是不對的那如果有產生這樣子的狀況你們已經有這樣子的狀況的ETF的這個發行的這個投資業者是不是你們後面對於他再發行類似的ETF的時候你不同檔的時候會不會有什麼樣的限制"},{"start":11578.457,"end":11590.533,"text":"報告委員如果我們有發現這樣的狀況就是他發行後一段期間就大量贖回他再申請下一檔的時候我們會變成申請核准制申請核准制"},{"start":11591.534,"end":11606.403,"text":"就是要經過你們核准不是申報生效是說他送件比如經過12個營業日他就沒有什麼特別意見到生效那申請核准是我們會審查裡面的內容然後要經過我們同意他才能夠去發行"},{"start":11608.062,"end":11624.087,"text":"因為他如果踩到這個紅線我們就會降一級的就是等於加大於4000審核的方式那現在AI很紅嘛那有做過這個調查說金融業的從業人員是所有的行業裡面最擔心AI會搶他飯碗的"},{"start":11626.076,"end":11640.514,"text":"那這個其實會有這樣的憂慮我就舉個例子當然這是一個比較過去發生的例子早先的這個券商他耗子裡面有非常多的營業員嘛"},{"start":11641.255,"end":11663.323,"text":"那都是以前最早是因為工具關係用接電話的然後電話裡面錄音的用這樣的方式所以那時候使用的需要的這個成業人員人數很多啊現在都是用電腦的這個程式撮合啊所以需要的那個業員人數已經降到相對的少很多所以就很多人就是這個工作會被取代"},{"start":11665.184,"end":11690.886,"text":"從這個例子來看未來的新科技未來的新方法很有可能會讓人家憂慮這些工作人員憂慮說我的工作會不會被取代掉就像以前的在成立這個網路銀行的時候因為很多銀行員擔心說那如果以後網路銀行發達那就網路銀行去做就好了那我們這個銀行員的工作會不會減少這個主委你對這方面有什麼看法其實"},{"start":11693.24,"end":11711.089,"text":"我過去在學校的時候曾經針對這問題有蠻多的思考跟探討啦那比如說剛開始我們幾年前大概五六年前我們剛提金融科技的時候大家就提出這樣憂慮那時候還有要求金融機構要提存一定的準備金來做這件事情嘛我想當時還有這樣一個做法"},{"start":11711.929,"end":11726.107,"text":"AI來以後呢確實是這樣但是我們也看到從過去以來它不斷的做一些變形就是說金融機構怎麼樣去做一些調適跟提供一些新的服務樣態我們看到其實上重點是如果不調整的話它就會被"},{"start":11727.568,"end":11753.593,"text":"這個取代當然我們也看到他會做一些調整當然有些人沒辦法調整那是沒有辦法但是我們也看到說其實金融機構本身也是動態的但是因為這是可能假如是這個比較斷裂式更劇烈的話那可能就是要特別注意我想每一次狀況不一樣確實我們從過去的經驗金融機構在過去一直在做調整中比如說剛剛過去我們在接電話變成網路下單以後其實我們券商其實並沒有"},{"start":11754.213,"end":11772.289,"text":"並沒有減少它這個內容只是說很多的工作在轉換中對 但是我現在說基層的工作人員金融從業的工作人員會很擔心將來AI越來越用發達我舉個例子之前前一兩個月在很紅的那個養龍蝦養龍蝦它自動去可以"},{"start":11776.432,"end":11792.997,"text":"據那個報導啦因為我當然是不熟但是據那個報導說他可以主動幫你思考主動幫你下單主動幫你做生意那以後呢是不是主動幫你分析然後主動這些原來你從事的分析的工作從事這些撮合交易的一些工作都有"},{"start":11793.777,"end":11820.334,"text":"有這個AI去給你做了那這部分是不是就是會被取代掉了呢就是說他的工作型態假設過去是一個以資料收集資料整理我在猜現在是AI比人強很多啦但實際上很多比如說下判斷分析我覺得還是不太一樣但是我跟你們說委員報未來怎麼變化大家都不知道但實際上我們也看到就是說這個趨勢也要注意還有一個就是其實現在我們金融機構我想各行各業都有一個遇到的問題未來的"},{"start":11822.755,"end":11839.963,"text":"這個應徵的人越來越少就是人力的短缺這也是某種程度說不定這也是一個轉機我想說我們隨時要因應這樣一個變化這樣應徵人數變少你覺得主要原因在哪裡因為金融業到現在來講它的這個起薪薪水狀況應該是不錯的"},{"start":11841.124,"end":11857.144,"text":"其實最近各行各業比如說他們在比如說像每年很熱門的MA儲備幹部其實我們也看到很多金融機構反映說應徵的人確實是相對是比較少就是說這是整體整個結構的問題我想"},{"start":11858.866,"end":11881.834,"text":"AIMO的積極面它會是一個填補這樣但是比如說另外一個我們要考慮到它的相對的比如說假設沒辦法調適的話應該怎麼來做這件事情我們這也會納入到我們政策的一些思考裡面對 這可能也要早一點研究看看因為這個將來有可能會遇到好 加油 謝謝謝偉好 謝謝秉瑞委員接著請鍾嘉賓委員發言歡迎嘉賓回兩家"},{"start":11900.442,"end":11906.166,"text":"主席 再討論委員先進 列席的政務及官司長 官員 會長 工作夥伴 媒體 記者 女士先生有請彭主委請彭主委"},{"start":11912.204,"end":11933.366,"text":"主委好 時間有限直接問正題上週才通過了一個軍購特別條例那裡面被大砍了無人機跟AI系統但是我們看到一個從共軍流出的評估他說如果台灣無人機到位解放軍攻台毫無勝算請問主委雖然不是你的專業部分但一般民眾很關心 你看法是這樣子嗎"},{"start":11935.396,"end":11957.957,"text":"我想 拜委員我真的對這沒有研究 是這個報表是無人機很重要AI系統很重要 對不對這個重要性大家可以看得到就是說從我們既有像俄烏戰爭可以看得出來它真的重要性很高是的 那如果說我們能夠用無人機阻卻共軍的越海攻擊那可能台灣問到的不是戰爭的風險是什麼"},{"start":11959.773,"end":11970.243,"text":"如果他不能渡海供給,什麼供給會讓社會大亂ATM領不到錢銀行的存款不見了有家證券不知道在哪裡房地產登記也消失了哪一個就是最恐怖啊,對民眾來講"},{"start":11972.298,"end":11999.657,"text":"我想這個面對極端情況的時候那金融的這個維持基本的運作是一個社會安定很重要的力量啦是的所以之前呢有報告委員提出了金融並推嘛好我們看一下並推什麼呢就是我們看到一個報告就IMF提出最新的AI會加速金融網攻的風險包括有一個美國的AI新創公司也找到了數千個金融機構的弱點如果呢"},{"start":12000.577,"end":12021.576,"text":"沒辦法取得新的AI模型凡是醫院 銀行 電廠都可能收入罔工更重要的是什麼我們包括金融機構會產生信心效應支付中斷 流動性緊縮甚至造成資產的欠價拋售主委我們這要不要預防這當然是 這是社會正信的一部分好 那所以金融兵推現在有在進行這樣的思考嗎"},{"start":12022.386,"end":12044.81,"text":"我們在過去一直有類似的這樣的一個這個程序在進行但是當時在轉金融兵隊的時候AI還沒有這麼的顯赫所以目前你們有沒有考慮用人工智慧的模型去找出金融機構系統性的資安弱點譬如說包括未來我們虛擬資產的服務商加入之後會不會也是一個攻擊的重點"},{"start":12045.489,"end":12066.447,"text":"我想如果大家注意到我們現在因為AI發展出來以後現在很多像一些我們看到AI大於原模型裡面已經具備有去尋找你資安漏洞的這樣的功能所以大家也很擔心所以現在AI會成為一個大家要反而要防範AI去尋找資安漏洞的一個"},{"start":12067.288,"end":12095.115,"text":"所以希望金管會趕快把這個AI的一個效應納入考量好 往下看其實在上週時間有限跟你請教過資產代幣化就是RWA那麼初期我們看到了其實我剛有舉例在所謂的這個加密貨幣的交易當中他們需要除了加密貨幣以外其他的穩定幣以外的RWA來作為他們的籌碼讓這個市場的交易能夠穩定性但是我們上次也問到了排除了基金的原因是什麼下一頁"},{"start":12096.397,"end":12119.137,"text":"有價證券暫緩推行RWA就是說資產價值的認定還有交易跟結算時間是不是這樣所以基金暫時不列入你說容易做的先做我們只是第一階段來實驗這個平台的可能性為什麼先做黃金跟債券黃金大家價值很容易認定現在已經在做了債券的部分因為它相對穩定"},{"start":12120.951,"end":12145.953,"text":"那如果是票券的話呢,好像是接乎這兩者之間嘛有沒有考慮在黃金跟債券之後,下一步來評估票券納入這樣一個RWA的一個對象,實驗對象其實我們第二階段我們都會評估像比如剛才上次跟委員答詢是要像貨幣基金像貝萊德他們做那個,還有像比如說應該是相對的比較接近於就是它穩定性比較高,而且比如說它波動沒那麼大"},{"start":12146.718,"end":12167.447,"text":"票卷好像符合這個條件嗎應該是當然會比一般我們資產型的基金來得更類似所以希望我們儘管會在下一步在黃金跟債券之外評估一下票券是不是可以來進行RWA所以我們第二階段我們都會全面來評估第二階段 好很好那接下來上次也問到了包括了資產商業也就作為公共建設的募資我們說"},{"start":12168.467,"end":12190.981,"text":"REITs我相信本會議會通過主委也希望樂見他趕快通過那REITs通過前可不可以先用STO的方式來先行的做一些評估因為REITs如果在本會議通過不能再等通過再來做這些準備工作事前有哪些可以先做預限的前置作業呢STO已經是既有的架構目前是一檔啊對對對 包括一檔"},{"start":12192.783,"end":12211.842,"text":"所以我想說這部分的話我們都會整個跟著我們RWA的這個整個程序來評估未來各式各樣的商品所以我希望說我們RACE通過的時候我們趕快的推出STO的方式不要只有一檔好不好下一個主席站起來了好那一個這個問題先帶回去研究啦"},{"start":12212.242,"end":12227.971,"text":"目前區塊鏈上的代幣記錄跟傳統的中央存款機構或者是轉讓代理人的帳本我們剛剛說數位原生跟數位軟生當收到網供的時候我們怎麼樣提到它的生存 倖存率或者說只剩下一個的時候怎麼認定這個題目待會就研究好嗎好"},{"start":12228.971,"end":12247.967,"text":"好 那最後的題目請研議金融兵推的想定因應腳本一個月提一個報告那麼關於票券優先資產代幣化的可行性也一樣給本席一個報告以最後的劣質的本會議通過之後呢你們STO的推行的先行作業的方案我們希望不要像現在只有一檔也是在報告內容涵蓋以及最後"},{"start":12248.947,"end":12263.253,"text":"剛剛說的如果說我們的代幣紀錄發生了衝突或者遭受罔工遺失的時候這個幸存率怎麼提高怎麼認定一樣在這個報告裡面涵蓋可以嗎好謝謝謝謝主委謝謝嘉賓那接著請葉研資委員質詢主席好我們請經管會主委"},{"start":12278.459,"end":12301.692,"text":"好我們請彭主委主委好主委好那個我有看到因為民進黨週末的時候在高雄辦了一個活動然後好像主委你有去參加嘛對不對對我去針對雅致中心的政策做說明我看到主委其實我蠻訝異的為什麼因為並不是所有的政務官都有去而且那是一個政黨辦的活動"},{"start":12302.472,"end":12328.102,"text":"那金管會當然他在法律上已經不是一個獨立機關了因為獨立機關是委員制嘛你現在已經變成首長制但是金管會大家的期待是可以獨立行職職權啦實際上按照那個法律上面規定就是要有一定的獨立性所以主委去參加政黨活動啊我是蠻訝異的當然當然這個主委你有你的考量啊那這個是民進黨的誰跟你邀請的"},{"start":12328.502,"end":12339.88,"text":"那我想是因為是由高雄市政府邀請我去針對高雄市政府邀請你去的但是我駕馭的時候遇到民進黨的發言人他講說是他們的社運部邀的"},{"start":12341.695,"end":12361.193,"text":"很多都是他們邀的所以是高雄市政府邀的那高雄市政府作為一個公家機關可以幫一個政黨去邀政務官嗎這很明顯行政不中立我想那是假日啦而且再來就是說不是啊假日你假日去哪裡我沒意見啦我只有說獨立機關當然不是獨立機關啦但是一個"},{"start":12363.596,"end":12372.927,"text":"監管金融業的首長去參加政黨活動我覺得不適任啦但是這個東西不適當啦第二個問題就是高雄市政府為什麼可以幫民進黨去邀請政務官來參加高雄市政府是民進黨開的喔"},{"start":12380.536,"end":12395.779,"text":"我想因為我去了才知道因為我們全程直播我講什麼東西完全就是站在金管威政策的說明那是另外一回事我想我在過去不管是很多的學校機關都邀請我去做政策說明我也都去了"},{"start":12397.64,"end":12418.345,"text":"主委 因為我看到你在那邊大概延長內容都是在講亞洲資產中心的就我執掌範圍內的內容你講 把亞洲資產中心講得很棒你提到說那是2024年的時候陳其邁達就要給你所以你有去參加嘛 對吧不是 因為主要是我們當時說地方專區那時候陳市長有來特別到京廣會來"},{"start":12420.946,"end":12437.574,"text":"來跟我討論說高雄可以做什麼東西他有特別打給你然後後來就跑到板橋跟你你有在現場說這個事嘛對 那是公開的所以其實幫陳金邁加分啦好像他的勇於認識啦我是想問一下因為我聽到很多"},{"start":12438.334,"end":12453.519,"text":"金融界的人跟我講他說其實他們不是很想去高雄他們寧可去香港去新加坡為什麼呢因為高雄太遠了這也是我們努力的方向等下我還沒講完而且主要的客戶也不在高雄所以他們其實不想去"},{"start":12454.124,"end":12479.447,"text":"那後來為什麼有些去呢我看到主委你的報告裡面有提到很多銀行 保險 投信 券商都有去很多都是金管會要求他們去的這完全誤會了我們從來都沒有要求他們去你沒有要求他們跟我聽的都不一樣你可能不會公開承認啦金管會對於這種銀行 保險 投信 券商其實來說權力很大他們不敢得罪金管會所以金管會如果"},{"start":12480.608,"end":12495.356,"text":"要去高雄開一個亞洲資產中心要由他們去他們不敢我們也歡迎其他城市我想這部分並不是說只在高雄主委今天你如果說要設立亞洲資產中心是今晚會的目標然後覺得這個東西很棒"},{"start":12496.136,"end":12512.461,"text":"是金管會想要推動的政策那金管會也要主動出擊啊然後雙北因為已經有很雙北的大客戶應該都在雙北嘛主要有資產都在雙北嘛如果你要設專區資產專區雙北更好啊你也可以來板橋或來青門上次有跟你提過嘛因為你本人就在板橋嘛"},{"start":12513.161,"end":12541.52,"text":"對 我們也歡迎新北市政府或是台北市政府跟我們來做因為其實上北部本來就是金融的重鎮他本來就是這些我們金融服務的都是這樣那我們這次做個實驗我剛才跟其他委員報告過因為我們在做新辦業務的時候一定要有人才到位要先有個風險可控的情況之下我們這個不是說只以一個地方我覺得這種東西因為你要求很多人去設一定也有排擠作用那如果你已經鎖定高雄"},{"start":12541.88,"end":12562.225,"text":"尤其是你還站上民進黨的舞台上面你還站到高雄去那假設你已經為了要做球給高雄去做這個事那其他地方要再做資源也會不會分散啊其實不會 全台灣都是我們目標因為主席站起來我希望主委好不好雖然你不是獨立機關你還是要獨立啦好不好我想還是從個正面角度來看待這個問題好 謝謝謝謝 謝謝委員"},{"start":12565.466,"end":12586.582,"text":"好 謝謝顏值委員接著請林倩琦 林倩琦 林倩琦 林倩琦委員不在蘇清泉 蘇清泉 蘇清泉委員不在鄭正琴 鄭正琴 鄭正琴委員不在好 今日登記花園的委員均已均詢答完畢"},{"start":12588.018,"end":12615.888,"text":"本次會議做成如下的決定一說明跟詢答完畢二委員諮詢未及答覆跟請補充資訊的時候請金管會在一週內以書面答覆委員如果有另外的要求期限者從其鎖定三中華民國一百一十五年度中央政府總預算案有關金融監督管理委員會銀行局證券期貨局保險局檢查局收支部分"},{"start":12616.848,"end":12638.295,"text":"另選擇則期繼續審查本次會議委員若有相關的預算的一個提案請在今天下午五點進送財政委員會會議室人員收件本次會議議程已進行完畢如果有不在場的委員提那個補題書面的一個執行一併併入記錄刊登公報並請議事人員協助處理散會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}