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宣讀上次會議事錄 決定 確定談事項 依憑案審查 依本院委員 萬美玲等17人委員林大化等18人 分別擬據《水土保持法》第二條條文修正草案等二案二 本院委員林健吉等16人擬據《水土保持法》第三十三條條文修正草案"},{"start":1439.037,"end":1458.115,"text":"3.本院台湾民众党党团拟据水土保持法第23条第32条及第33条条文修正草案2.并案审查1.本院委员薛一凤等17人委员万美玲等17人委员林大骂等18人分别拟据3.山坡地保育利用条例第2条条文修正草案等3案2.本院委员徐义虎魁等17人委员罗志强等16人"},{"start":1458.595,"end":1481.706,"text":"分別擬據三波地保育利用條例第15條條件修正草案等二案三 本院委員鄭天才等17人擬據三波地保育利用條例第2條及第37條條件修正草案四 本院委員鄭天才等17人擬據三波地保育利用條例第37條條件修正草案五 本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬據三波地保育利用條例第10條第34條及第35條條件修正草案"},{"start":1482.926,"end":1493.53,"text":"3.並案審查本院委員呂毅霖等16人委員楊瓊英等25人委員邱志偉等21人委員陳昭明等16人分別擬據《農業發展條例》第60條條案修正草案等4案2."},{"start":1493.53,"end":1495.831,"text":"本院委員邱志偉等21人擬據《農業發展條例》增訂第65條之1條修正草案"},{"start":1500.871,"end":1519.32,"text":"更正 增訂第65條之一調研草案3.本院委員邱正軍等20人離去 農業發展條例第3條調研修正草案4.本院委員劉建國等18人離去 農業發展條例第2條調研修正草案5.本院台灣民眾黨黨團離去 農業發展條例第10條之一及第69條調研修正草案"},{"start":1520.34,"end":1539.518,"text":"臺灣事項合併詢答委員陳昭明、林建琦及洪宇強說明提案要旨農業部部長陳俊濟報告後委員邱毅英等事務人提出質詢據農業部部長陳俊濟等積極答覆登記方案委員除不在場者外區域均與發言完畢詢答結束委員謝榮介及陳昭明所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報"},{"start":1540.399,"end":1568.661,"text":"書面質詢和問及答案部分 請相關單位一週內書面答覆並複製本會委員另有要求期限者從其鎖定 協議 詢答結束以上個案均應定期進行審查 散會 宣讀完畢好 因為在場委員不足 我們暫不處理現在繼續進行討論事項 請宣讀討論事項 審查115年度中央政府總運算案附屬單位預算營業部分 關於經濟部主管 臺灣中油股份衍線公司臺灣自然水股份衍線公司 宣讀完畢"},{"start":1571.124,"end":1594.636,"text":"那麼現在介紹在場的列席機關首長那首先我們是經濟部孔明新部長謝謝台灣中油方振仁董事長謝謝台灣中油張明總經理謝謝台灣自然水公司李嘉隆董事長謝謝自然水公司李丁來董經理謝謝"},{"start":1596.42,"end":1619.266,"text":"以及今天有行政院主席總處基金預算處王佩珊王科長謝謝好那麼本日議程排定審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管台灣中油股份有限公司及台灣自來水股份有限公司好首先請經濟部廣平新部長報告"},{"start":1629.727,"end":1650.45,"text":"主席 各位委員 女士先生大家早安那大院今天審查本部所屬的中二公司及台水公司115年度預算本人請就兩公司115年度預算重點向貴委員會提出報告 敬請各位委員不吝指教首先是中二公司的部分"},{"start":1651.691,"end":1671.541,"text":"面對國際地緣政治緊張以及能源價格高漲的挑戰中國公司為了配合政策穩定物價以及照顧民生的政策從109年開始到115年三月底為止政策性的吸收汽油柴油以及天然氣等等產品的售價高達了6129億元累積虧損達到了792億元"},{"start":1678.308,"end":1705.061,"text":"那麼因應淨零的趨勢跟能源轉型除了在本業持續加強公安管理穩定供應國內油氣亦積極的拓展以及參與再生能源的業務開發探譜桌利用跟封存的相關技術緊究中國公司115年度預算的重點說明如下首先在重要的業務措施方面第一項是油氣的供應穩定多元的採"},{"start":1706.201,"end":1729.079,"text":"购这个原油采取长约为主现货为辅的策略那第二个有关于天然气的部分呢是以中长约大概79%为主确保来自于澳洲卡达美国等地区的稳定气源21%是透过短约以及现货机动的调整满足国内的临时上的用电还有工艺上的需求"},{"start":1730.27,"end":1749.811,"text":"第二項是有關於淨零轉型的部分在節能減碳的部分115年度預計說投入了67項的節能減碳的計畫預估可以減少5.3萬公噸的二氧化碳當量同時間以在多個場域導入能源的技術服務就是ESCO的模式"},{"start":1750.712,"end":1774.718,"text":"第二是有关于发展多元绿能的部分115年度宜兰的土厂地热的发电厂已经开始完成以及开始营运在宜兰东山河地区也完成了地热的碳勘专警的作业深度达到了3360亿公尺并且持续推动韩西地区的目标4000公尺的深层地热碳勘"},{"start":1776.124,"end":1799.951,"text":"另外中央公司也積極的投入太陽能光電離岸風電的場域並且預計在115年下半年自己生產這個永續的航空燃油就是SOF並且籌劃供應海運生質柴油就是B20布局海空永續的航運第三是復旦技術跟智慧化的應用"},{"start":1802.625,"end":1823.544,"text":"铁33的碳封存计划是全台湾首座的这个核定场域115年度会继续的进行监测打造全台湾首座核定碳封存的厂子并且全部的导入了AI的技术与制程的优化设备预警还有影像的辨识确保整个场域的安全并提升营业效率"},{"start":1824.605,"end":1839.597,"text":"第三是落實公安管理跟環境的保護公安的部分從源頭加強風險的預防強化安全文化並且推動數位轉型導入人工智慧跟相關的科技以提升公安的效能"},{"start":1841.579,"end":1861.654,"text":"環保的部分強化現場操作的紀律嚴格執行改善的措施並加強設備的元件檢測跟修復落實污染源頭的減量第二是有關營運收支跟盈虧的部分中央公司115年度預算適用國際原油價格是76.5美元"},{"start":1864.136,"end":1881.039,"text":"那新台幣兌換的匯率是30.5美元作為基礎那預計收入可以1.18兆支出是1.17兆編列的稅後淨利是65.2億當然我們也知道現在的狀況跟當初編列是已經有所不同"},{"start":1881.98,"end":1893.223,"text":"那第三個是投資計畫跟資金來源的部分115年度編列的固定的資產投資預計是516億元包括專案計畫344億元一般的建築跟設備是172億元資金的來源是以借款籌資419億元自有資金大概是97億元來支應"},{"start":1905.226,"end":1932.792,"text":"第二個是有關於台水公司的部分台水公司為了配合國家的整體發展因應極端氣候跟淨零轉型的挑戰持續以開源、節流、調度、備源作為核心推動各項的供水建設並導入智慧科技跟AI的應用提升供水的韌性還有營運的效能以下請就115年度台水公司的預算重點說明如下首先在重要的"},{"start":1934.212,"end":1955.609,"text":"業務的部分第一個是多元化的水源開發台水公司除了配合本部水利署各項的水源開發計畫之外並且積極的辦理下游自來水供水的工程其中這個烏溪南水潭輪功湖下游自來水供水的工程預計在115年完成完工以後呢"},{"start":1956.289,"end":1979.489,"text":"每天可以增加25萬個CMD供水的能力對於中部地區的供水穩定具有重大的助益另外也持續充裕自有的水源115年度預計完成浮流水開發工程計畫的第二期將再增加1萬個CMD的水源供應能力提升整體的供水韌性"},{"start":1980.53,"end":1992.983,"text":"第二個是提升淨水廠的處理效率台積公司目前有490處的淨水廠為了維持原有設計的供水能力並符合飲水的水質標準"},{"start":1994.389,"end":2013.176,"text":"需要逐步的設備的一些更新的一些相關工程115年度我們預計持續的淨水廠的現代化工作包括處理豐原一廠的一二期的淨水的更新以及關西的淨水廠還有新埔配水中心的改善工程"},{"start":2014.116,"end":2039.898,"text":"第三個是持續的降低漏水率為了提升水資源的使用效率並且降低水源開發的壓力台水公司持續的降低漏水率的計畫導入國際先進的漏水策略並且透過合理的水壓管理主動的減漏快速的修漏以及管線的資產化等等管理足夠的改善"},{"start":2040.879,"end":2043.144,"text":"供水的這個網的效能115年度預算總共編60.45億元68.45億元預計這個"},{"start":2052.956,"end":2077.467,"text":"辦理這個管線汰換大概714公里目標是希望在115年度落水率可以降到11.19%第四項是強化區域的調度跟備援因應氣候變遷所帶來的供水不確定性以及降低重大事故所造成的缺德風險持續辦理這個備援調度管線的工程"},{"start":2078.529,"end":2083.444,"text":"針對單一重要脆弱的維生管線加以快速的建置"},{"start":2084.761,"end":2107.07,"text":"那第五項是提供這個供水的普及率為了改善無自然水地區的用水計畫台水公司在114年到118年持續推動無自然水地區供水改善計畫的第五期那115年入編列的是15.48億元預計可改善3300戶用水的需求"},{"start":2108.391,"end":2135.41,"text":"那第二個是有關於營業收支的部分115年度編列的預算是341億元支出是411億元那虧損是69億元主要是因為折舊還有動力費外包費以及利息等等的支出增加所致第三個是投資計畫跟資金的來源115年度預算裡面建構"},{"start":2137.391,"end":2147.014,"text":"固定資產的投資是255億元其中專案計畫是181億元一般的建築設備是74億元資金來源除了107億元像國內的銀行貸款之外區域大概148億元以自由資金來支應"},{"start":2156.796,"end":2176.208,"text":"那麼有關中油跟台水公司115年度的計畫預算的詳細內容那請各位委員我等一下會請各該公司來作為報告那麼以上報告敬祝各位委員指教謝謝好謝謝龔部長接下來請台灣中油方董事長報告"},{"start":2186.711,"end":2213.624,"text":"主席各位委員大家早那麼大院今天審查台灣中油公司115年度的預算僅代表台灣中油公司就當前經營環境經營策略以及經營重點向各位委員提出簡要的報告首先在當前經營環境裡面有關國際能源市場的一個情勢那美伊戰爭導致赫姆斯海峽的航運受阻帶動了國際油氣價格的上漲"},{"start":2215.987,"end":2233.864,"text":"那麼以115年1月到4月布蘭特原油期貨價格平均是每桶85美元那麼天然氣JKN的價格平均是每個百萬Btu15美元和114年度的平均價格來比的話是上漲了"},{"start":2234.724,"end":2251.642,"text":"那么现在的情况尽管是巴基斯坦的居中协调那么到五月初来讲的话美国跟伊朗还没有达成最终的一个和平协议所以有关后续的国际油气价格的走向是需要去密切观察以及因应"},{"start":2252.54,"end":2277.23,"text":"那麼第二點在國內的油品市場方面目前國內的油品市場就是台塑、台塑石化跟中油公司兩家油品供應商來提供服務那麼在汽柴油浮動油價調整機制的持續的運作之下那麼中油公司在國內的汽柴油的市佔率大約是80%那麼在燃料油的方面市佔率是超過9成"},{"start":2279.015,"end":2299.147,"text":"中油公司肩負充分供應國內各項油品、天然氣以及石化原料的任務,配合政府穩定國內物價政策,長期以來都秉持品質第一、服務至上貢獻最大的經營理念,來致力於提供優良的油劑產品,提升服務品質。"},{"start":2300.664,"end":2327.65,"text":"第二点在公司的经营策略方面面对目前快速变迁的经营环境中原公司已经陆续展开各项的因应作为以致力成为多元创新永续的国际能源公司为公司的愿景并且定定了六大发展策略包括迈向净零碳排追求永续发展整合量化资源开发高值产品"},{"start":2328.65,"end":2344.404,"text":"多元能源来源精进产销输出,扩大品牌价值,活络多角经营,拓展探勘合作,掌握自我油气,结合新兴科技致力创新研发,以迈向永续经营。"},{"start":2345.27,"end":2371.499,"text":"那麼第三點在說明今年度的公司經營的重點那麼經營重點首先還是要強化在公安跟環保方面的一個事項那麼在公安方面的中央公司以ISO 45001及台灣職業安全衛生管理系統為基礎落實安全衛生管理作為每年進行外部驗證確保系統的有效那麼另外也持續推動"},{"start":2373.112,"end":2392.778,"text":"製程安全管理,也就是所謂的PSM另外,關鍵性設備的完整性管理以及加強承展商的管理同時也積極導入智慧公安科技運用AI影像辨識、CCTV監控來提升管控的效能"},{"start":2393.878,"end":2407.926,"text":"邁向公安百分百公安零災害的一個目標而在環保方面因為環保法規的發展趨勢以及檢討我們目前現階段各廠的一個情況我們也積極的提出計畫來落實的執行"},{"start":2410.988,"end":2430.395,"text":"另外,為了善盡企業社會責任以及因應氣候變遷,我們也持續推動溫室氣體盤查、節能減碳工作、氣候變遷調適作業以及擴大能資源整合及回收再利用,持續依照技術成熟度導入再生能源等技術來因應國際減碳趨勢。"},{"start":2434.827,"end":2446.111,"text":"那麼第二項在推動重大投資計畫呢中央公司也配合政府未來發展的方向以及能源轉型的需要共115年度共計執行13項的一個投資計畫其中跟天然氣穩定供應"},{"start":2451.873,"end":2478.334,"text":"的相關計畫包括第三座液化填氧器接收站等七項其他的部分是在高雄港洲際貨櫃二期大林石化油品除印中心等等總共六項第三個在加強經濟服務提升市場競爭力方面中原公司也持續強化加油站的經濟服務推動加油站的行動支付優化加油的作業流程"},{"start":2479.074,"end":2504.172,"text":"营造捷径以及友善的加油一个环境提升了市场的竞争力另外因应市场的环境的变化呢也持续提供多样化而且便捷的多角化服务使交易站成为人车生活的服务站那么第四项有关发展石化高质化的部分呢中原公司为了填补国内的石化基础原料的一个缺口呢"},{"start":2505.274,"end":2523.974,"text":"建立自给自足的原料供应链,推动链化转型产业升级投资计划,建构人工智慧场域采行了低碳净料,混烧自产的低碳燃料等先进制程技术。"},{"start":2525.355,"end":2534.439,"text":"希望能夠大幅減少污染物的排放以西的產能會由目前107萬噸每年提升到172萬噸原料會優先供應給新材料循環產業園區我們也會鼓勵國內石化廠商來共同投資5G、綠能、醫材及半導體產業需求的高質化產品"},{"start":2550.306,"end":2576.548,"text":"第五項在拓展國際市場方面中原公司也持續積極推動國際油氣探勘與開發的合作將會聚焦於北美、東南亞以及澳大利亞等政績環境相對穩定而且具備油氣資源潛能的地區我們也已經審慎的評估規劃進入開發或生產階段具有明確經濟效益的油氣田為主要的投資標的"},{"start":2577.709,"end":2601.193,"text":"来扩大我们国我国的油气资源掌握强化能源韧性那么同时也持续朝向国际能源公司的目标迈进第六项在应用新兴科技方面那么中原公司积极导入AI技术把这个异常预测影像辨识异常预警和生成式AI等新兴"},{"start":2601.913,"end":2618.182,"text":"技术呢应用在我们公司里面的产销输出安环等业务领域同时呢也逐步建构完善的资料基础设施透过长期的技术累积有效的来降低生产成本提升企业经营的效能"},{"start":2619.142,"end":2647.265,"text":"最後一項有關於佈局再生能源中央公司也積極尋覓太陽光電廠增加綠電同時在太陽光電維運系統部分我們也進行開發應用在自己的暗廠在地熱資源方面也將積極投入三塊領域包括淺層的地熱深層的地熱以及在火山型地熱方面三個方面同步進行"},{"start":2648.746,"end":2677.157,"text":"那麼另外為了佈局國內無碳燃料的供應中央公司規劃已經規劃建立了這個嘉青站營運管理制度那麼配合青人載具示範運行計畫並且跟國內的夥伴來共同的努力進行各項的一個青人應用的研發那麼未來也將配合政府的政策規劃供應各產業所需要的氫氣以上的報告進行各位委員不吝指教"},{"start":2679.005,"end":2700.037,"text":"好 謝謝方董事長 接下來請台灣中油張明總經理報告主席各位委員大家早安中油公司接著向各位報告的是114年度及115年度1到3月的營運狀況以及115年度的營業預算在營運狀況部分"},{"start":2708.529,"end":2734.263,"text":"114年度中國公司實際的收入是新台幣1兆0853億元總支出是1兆0942億元本期淨損89億元叫預算本期淨利是63.74元虧損增加到152.79億元它的原因主要是配合物價穩定政策我們的油氣價格沒辦法足夠調整還有在海外礦區的油氣權益的減損來刃裂導致的"},{"start":2738.786,"end":2745.85,"text":"115年的1到3月我們的實際收入是2549億元總支出2537億元本期淨利是12.25億元我們的分配預算數原來列是虧損4.41億元相較之下增加了16.66億元"},{"start":2759.298,"end":2786.038,"text":"主要是我們的原油進口成本有落後反應的一個現象所以我們的汽車台油成本是下降使我們的消耗毛利比預算處增加在第二大項部分有關於營業預算方面115年度在原油電燃氣及成品油的採購方面我們原油計畫進口2100萬公秉那編列的價格是依照每桶"},{"start":2787.865,"end":2807.293,"text":"76.5美元來編列的液化天然氣及成品採購部分預計進口液化天然氣302億立方公尺進口甲基第三丁基尼就是MTBE52萬公丙還有液化石油氣LPG33萬公噸在我們的油氣鏈產部分"},{"start":2813.74,"end":2819.31,"text":"整個國內的一個成品天然氣包括我們進口的液化天然氣把它氣化總共一家生產301億立方公尺叫114年度預算"},{"start":2827.187,"end":2851.781,"text":"302億邊列是比較少的9800萬立方公尺在煉製方面預定要煉製我們的原油2101萬公丙比114年度的預算量2125萬公丙少了24萬公丙它的原因是因為我們這個銷量減少了所以生產方面就配合尤其是燃料油部分的需求減少整個煉製就因此要總降低"},{"start":2852.714,"end":2860.777,"text":"那油氣銷售部分我們預計要銷售成品天然氣295億立方公尺比114年度的預算296.6億立方公尺少了0.44%那在石油聯產品部分預計銷售2171萬公丙較114年度2191萬公丙減少了0.91%"},{"start":2877.871,"end":2880.853,"text":"石油化學品部分目標387萬公噸叫114年度預算378萬公噸 增加了2.38百分比"},{"start":2890.543,"end":2918.264,"text":"那在我們上游的油氣碳勘開發及碳封存部分我們會持續的加強國內外的這個油氣碳勘然後國內部分除了說繼續有油氣的生產之外我們也會從事各地熱潛能地區還有鐵山山碳補存跨部會試驗計畫海域部分就是在西南海域油氣潛能評估之外我們也在規劃推動海域的碳封存"},{"start":2919.165,"end":2936.816,"text":"在國外部分則是持續的跟國外的健全的大油公司合作尋求合作探勘或共同開發的機會在115年度編列的探勘預算是58.0億元有關於我們在這個銷售部分的服務品質"},{"start":2938.666,"end":2957.473,"text":"加護站的硬體方面我們會持續的進行公安環保方面的一個設備的改善那也會落實經濟服務 經濟服務那各項的一個服務的品質我們會根據我們對消費者對顧客的一個反應來持續作為改善的依據"},{"start":2959.093,"end":2978.778,"text":"那也因應順應我們整個消費者消費型態的改變我們持續會推廣自助加油以及行動支付還有我們車牌辨識服務等等那多角化方面則是會結合每個加油站在地的一個特色引進異業的合作來提供"},{"start":2979.898,"end":3000.243,"text":"消費者更多元更便捷的服務那這些內容也包括我們的複合商店洗車快寶洗可麗咖啡來住咖啡行動商城等項目那在政府推動能源轉型政策之時呢我們也持續的會設置電動車的充電設備來推廣綠能的產業"},{"start":3004.915,"end":3020.111,"text":"在研究發展部分110年度的研究發展預算我們編列了58.32億元其中營業支出有30.9億元資本支出27.4億元整個的研發比例佔營業收入的0.56%"},{"start":3022.745,"end":3042.167,"text":"那在有三大部分,第一部分是在悠遊方面,我們在上游的碳採技術會仔細的一個加強、精進在石化品部分,我們會致力於高質化,高階碳系材料及環保塗料部分另外在儲能及能源管理系統的開發方面,也是我們所重視的"},{"start":3043.268,"end":3063.347,"text":"那在煉製石化生產的部分我們會進行研究製程的改善提高我們設備管線的安全及能源使用效率減碳方面會發展升值經驗的技術我們投入二氧化碳的捕捉、碳封存等以及環境淨化及污染改善"},{"start":3064.246,"end":3090.413,"text":"在節能方面我們在國內各個低熱潛能地方推動低熱碳開氣開發計畫還有持續推動移動式加薪站參與氫能的一個應用研發並投入太陽光電系統、太陽能電池等研究公安環保我們會持續從我們的制度面、設備面、執行面來改善"},{"start":3091.94,"end":3110.749,"text":"尤其是導入我們科技公安的一個管理譬如說我們的設備巡檢的一個apps以及無人機的一個管線檢查等等另外工作許可證的電子化以及導入AI影像監控智慧應用等會讓我們的工作現場的一個安全管控跟即時應變能力來加強"},{"start":3112.93,"end":3126.578,"text":"那在115年度的公安環保及月薪的預算總共編列的是118.8億元在固定資產投資部分115年度的預算編列515.58億元包括了專案計畫是三項343.74億元以及一般建築及設備171.84億元"},{"start":3136.184,"end":3157.571,"text":"他在這13項的一個專案計劃的機器計劃裡面有5項在今年度是沒有要動用預算的就只有8項的計劃大家可以看到下面這個第5項第7項第9項第12、13是今年沒有用到的請大家參查在資金轉投資的部分"},{"start":3159.516,"end":3176.505,"text":"116年度我們的轉投資預算19.9億元那轉投資的一個效益我們編列是5.98億元那全年的一個115年的一個預算的收支啊收入部分我們估計有一兆"},{"start":3177.932,"end":3182.933,"text":"1846億元比114年度的預算減少了274.88億元那總支出是依照1781億元叫114年少276.4億元預計115年的淨利在最後是65.26億元比114年度的預算63.7億元增加了1.52億元"},{"start":3206.653,"end":3232.698,"text":"主要是我們在預估115年度的匯率會比較低我們的進口油氣成本會較少另外還有就是今年開始課徵的碳費我們也增添了碳費的一個費用最後就油價及預算的油價編列做個說明在115年1到4月我們最近經歷的"},{"start":3235.185,"end":3262.568,"text":"布朗特國際原油的期貨收盤價格呢平均是每桶85美元因為我們編列預算的時候76.5美元一桶是高的那以上的報告敬請各位委員會議指教並懇請支持謝謝各位謝謝總經理詳細的報告可能後面自來水的公司的時間都被你用了差不多了我們接下來請自來水公司掌握兩者合併8分鐘"},{"start":3273.593,"end":3283.804,"text":"主席 各位委員答應今天審查台學公司115年度預算加上有機會就公司115年度經營概況向委員會提出報告"},{"start":3285.643,"end":3309.142,"text":"海水公司坚务提供量组自由自来水任务那仅就115年度近概况说明如下1提升备眼能力打造韧性供水环境为前面强化全台供水系统的调度能力以韧性海水公司推动设置跨系统或区域间备眼管线透过整合区域水源并灵活调配达到"},{"start":3309.762,"end":3323.212,"text":"吊風季窟的穩定供水目標亦可充分應用現有設施降低對新水源開發依賴台水公司依行政院核定推動備沿吊路幹管工程計畫自110年到117年間預計埋設17條備沿管線長度約82.6公里投資金額達199.5億"},{"start":3333.351,"end":3349.67,"text":"建置完成後每日可穩定供水約261萬立萬公尺水公司亦配合水利署執行的針織串計畫包括北部三重蘆洲區供水管管改善計畫第一階段及石門水庫置新署聯通管計畫"},{"start":3351.171,"end":3366.177,"text":"2.中部台中自引領區域水源調度管線改善計畫及大安大甲溪聯通管工程計畫3.南部市增穩南化聯通管工程計畫完成後可大幅降低破管風險穩定區域供水"},{"start":3367.037,"end":3383.739,"text":"二 科技輔助管理實現高效率的減漏目標為有效落實降低漏水力計畫台水公司導入國際先進的降漏策略與技術前面執行四大防漏核心測試一 合理水壓管控二"},{"start":3384.785,"end":3399.729,"text":"主動漏水防治 提升修漏速度與品質 加強管線資產維護管理除氣強化水壓分析調控 抑制背景漏水外 水工失業 自行研發大數據漏水偵測輔助系統"},{"start":3402.57,"end":3420.977,"text":"結合自動監控系統可即時產出疑似漏水的熱區協助現場團隊快速研判與處理為持續深化降漏成果以提升供水效力台水公司在114年1月9日奉行政院核定推動下一階段的降低漏水率計畫114年到121年"},{"start":3424.338,"end":3434.224,"text":"本期計畫投入808億元採自費方式管理及改善漏水計畫目標至121年底將全國漏水率至113年底的11.99%進一步降低至9.77%"},{"start":3443.911,"end":3454.831,"text":"總降幅可以達2.22%三 推動現代化精水廠提升營運效能台水公司供水區域涵蓋台灣本島澎湖小琉球 立島蘭嶼"},{"start":3456.601,"end":3477.137,"text":"共計擁有490處各型的淨水廠隨著營運時間累積部分淨水廠設備逐漸老化無法達到原設計的淨水效能為提高淨水廠的運作效能台水公司以針對設備老舊系統配水力過高及產水水質為達列控標準的淨水廠進行篩選分階段進行21處的淨水廠改善"},{"start":3481.943,"end":3508.776,"text":"截至115年失業底已完成6處 預計於117年底可以再完成7處4.導入AI技術打造智慧化營運模式台曲公司積極導入AI技術以提升營運效率與服務品質透過AI客服系統提供24小時自動化且專業的客服服務並結合深層式AI與大語言模型"},{"start":3510.724,"end":3523.401,"text":"內部則建置以委婉開發的AI查詢系統提高工作效力並推動各項AI輔助工具優化行政作業流程"},{"start":3524.904,"end":3542.136,"text":"此外 台水公司應用AI技術優化水處理與易景機制推動AI精準加藥變盆抽水機最佳化排成及數位孪生智慧管理以水理積極等清水場辦理場域的實證與驗證"},{"start":3544.471,"end":3571.741,"text":"令在受風及離潭淨水場依不同生物特性建置AI易景系統透過生物行為與影像辨識技術來強化沿水安全的易景能力改善無自然水地區用水環境提高供水普及力為維護無自然水地區民眾的飲用水安全水公司持續配合經濟部水利署無自然水地區供水改善計畫改善偏遠地區的用水"},{"start":3574.353,"end":3577.385,"text":"並向民眾宣導生裝自來水"},{"start":3578.809,"end":3606.896,"text":"截至114年12月底供水普及率已達95.01%尤其屏東普及率由105年底的49.39%提升至73.25%增幅超過兩成以上為持續照顧偏鄉的用水行政院系113年11月18日核定無災水地區的五期改善計畫期程114到118年水公司要更新"},{"start":3608.07,"end":3623.317,"text":"配合辦理沿管工程執行經費75億元收益複數一估可以達1.5萬戶6 推動前流程的控管確保供水品質台水公司水安全計畫計較在與人體健康相關的"},{"start":3624.217,"end":3642.113,"text":"水質危害風險控管辦理水源端到用戶端前面向的風險鑑別改善及竊效從108年開始導入水安全計畫截至115年10月底已執行65場有效控管各面向的水質問題"},{"start":3644.034,"end":3662.466,"text":"七 加快淨零轉型步伐減緩極端氣候衝擊開水公司搶銷過程中直接溫室氣體排放量相對有限 歸屬環境部公告應辦理溫室氣體盤查登錄的行業別為近年受氣候變遷的影響 將以形態趨於極端"},{"start":3666.928,"end":3692.259,"text":"對穩定供水造成挑戰顯示台水公司營運發展與自然環境與氣候風險高度相關台水公司除降低能源需求提升能源使用效率以及發展再生能源及捷徑科技等面向來持續推動並採取先低碳後零碳及先適萬後導入的一個策略架構推動"},{"start":3693.999,"end":3711.842,"text":"1.提升人員效率2.發展綠色人員3.推動綠色辦公室提供綠色服務5.加強綠色生產與支援有效利用等五項策略即以執行各項減碳措施經統計台水公司114年五項減碳策略合計減碳量約13.8萬公噸CO2e已超過14年的目標"},{"start":3723.005,"end":3747.436,"text":"8 積極開發開眼節流提升資源效益 為改善財務狀況 台水公司113年進一步加強各項開眼節流措施嚴定年度開眼節流計畫 定期追蹤檢討在開眼的部分包括活用不動產及資產設備建置力冷發電使用小水利跟太陽光電擴展多角化的業務 節流的部分包括"},{"start":3748.496,"end":3762.341,"text":"節約冬天禮拜及藥品會支出等等以上請向各委員報告台水公司經營概括敬請各委員鼎力支持並且不斷指教好謝謝李董事長接下來請李總經理您時間剩1分半再給你多1分鐘2分半謝謝"},{"start":3766.309,"end":3788.597,"text":"主席 各位委員 僅將台水公司114年度的預算執行情形及115年度營業預算內容檢要報告 敬請各位委員指教與支持有關114年度預算執行情形產銷部分 銷售水量114年度截至12月底售水量是26.05億立方公尺 為全年預算25.4億立方公尺之102.56%"},{"start":3790.678,"end":3798.123,"text":"生產水量114年度截至12月底供水量為32.4億立方公尺為前年預算31.6億立方公尺的102.53%有關收支盈虧請請114年度截至12月底總收入為351.2億元總支出為402.2億元收支相抵後稅前虧損為51億主要"},{"start":3812.313,"end":3825.756,"text":"原因一配合中央水源調度政策及備援廠站新設擴建暨利率維持高漲增加動力費及利息支出二各項供水工程完工加入營運自責就會增加"},{"start":3826.876,"end":3838.242,"text":"第二大部分115年度的預算編列主要產銷的情形一計劃銷售水量115年度計劃售水量為26.21億立方公尺較114年度預算售水量25.4億立方公尺增加0.81億立方公尺主要是考量用水需求編列計劃生產水量115年度生產"},{"start":3848.787,"end":3854.769,"text":"供水量為32.47億立方公尺就114年度預算供水量31.6億立方公尺增加0.86億立方公尺系配合受水量及降低漏水率的計畫成果編列有關營業收支及營虧115年度預計總收入為341.41億元總支出為410.56億元收支相比後預計虧損69.15億元主要是因動力費、外發費、利息及折扣費等增加"},{"start":3877.116,"end":3892.948,"text":"有關固定資產投資計畫台水公司配合經濟發展政府政策及用水需求持續辦理降低漏水率計畫及各項供水設施的新擴建工程115年度固定資產投資計畫共255.22億元有關這個部分是包括專案計畫181.27億元一般建築及設備73.95億元營業資金拿圓及還款舉借110年度預計舉借至長期借款為625億元主要是支應"},{"start":3906.679,"end":3928.821,"text":"長環救災及固定資產建設改良擴充所需 另預計長環到期長期債務527.38億元結議 為提供量足 值優 服務好的自來水 台水公司持續落實各項策略及辦理各項執行計畫 善進提供量足 值優 自來水 提升國民生活水準 促進經濟發展的使命以上報告 進行委員支持與指教"},{"start":3931.506,"end":3955.859,"text":"謝謝李總監 辛苦你啦因為剛剛合計五位官員使用超過35分鐘所以後面的委員呢 我要把時間再多一點委員現在進行詢答 委員執行人原例做以下宣告每位委員發言時間本會委員6分鐘 必要時的延長1分鐘才不會失誤給我們官員本會委員4分鐘 上午10點30分截止發言登記首先請登記第一位的賴慧龍委員發言 請"},{"start":3960.39,"end":3967.994,"text":"好 謝主席 請拱族委跟中郵方董事長請拱部長和中郵的董事長 謝謝"},{"start":3970.712,"end":3997.763,"text":"部長我跟董事長我先請教一下之前我在2016年就有提到因為高雄是中游的重鎮不管是從大嶺甚至於到永安甚至於到新四清又一來要興建四清新四清那我也提到其實總公司要跟整個地點要接近所以包括中鋼台船都已經在高雄了那總公司實質南遷的其中什麼時候可以完成"},{"start":4000.67,"end":4029.193,"text":"跟委員報告首先最重要就是這個建築物什麼時候完成的這建築物目前的話準備要排入我們五月份的董事會來進行後續的採購審議來做個決定那麼在實質上的一個這個建築物的話目標會在119年的6月把它建築完成那麼所以在公司實質南線的部分目前是在公司內部做檢討但還沒有這麼快需要做最後的決定"},{"start":4030.638,"end":4049.474,"text":"我希望部長跟董事長這個部分還是要盡速決定因為你的所有的投資所有的工廠所有的第一線都是在南部的時候我認為其實應該管理現在其實是非常便利的不管是高鐵不管是網路上面都非常便利事實上你的管理階層跟你的生產階層在第一線的時候"},{"start":4050.294,"end":4062.964,"text":"覺得可以降低很多的公安 也覺得更能夠聽到地方在地的員工的心聲跟在地的一些狀況我覺得這個是很重要的一個原則啦 我希望這個部長跟董事長能夠朝這個方向大力來推動 部長認同這樣的看法嗎"},{"start":4065.103,"end":4080.315,"text":"再跟那個中央公司再討論一下 看時程上可不可以再加快一點好 我希望加快好不好 中鋼都已經在那邊了 台船在那邊了你的所有的生產的重鎮都是在高雄連你的七階已經都在做了齁 進度都還比現在來得快"},{"start":4080.955,"end":4099.074,"text":"連你的心思心意準備要做了當你的所有的未來的重鎮都在高雄的時候你的管理階層應該就近你就近區域不管是督導就近去巡查都可以讓整個跟當地人更多的互動而且能夠減少一些意外的發生我們希望要落實完成盡速完成十字南千里的工作"},{"start":4099.935,"end":4120.162,"text":"好 謝謝兩位 接下來要請教一下 然後這個今年的油氣的部分部長有剛剛去美國回來嘛 那所以我們到第三季Q3應該是都穩定了嘛 Q4有在規劃了嗎已經開始了 已經開始規劃了現在是在左手布局這個第四季也就是進入冬季的時候的油氣所以應該也不會有問題啦 應該也不會有問題"},{"start":4122.023,"end":4149.818,"text":"另外我覺得戰略方向上面我們跟美國多做一些的這個是方向是正確的因為美國必須是個很穩定的結構啦我相信美國跟我們簽署的美國不可能讓他們會有出狀況的這美國這麼大的一個強權所以跟美國更多合作同時也實質上去減少我們跟台美之間的貿易一些逆差的問題啦我覺得這個都是一個很好的一個解決方式但是我另外要請教的是跟阿拉斯加的這個合作會不會有將來有一些風險"},{"start":4151.803,"end":4178.789,"text":"有沒有存在政黨輪批或政黨改編的所有的風險我想對中原公司來講我們是以商業考慮為最重要的一個基礎那麼阿拉斯加的天然氣的話距離台灣很近尤其這個地緣政治的風險非常低那麼如果說它的將來的開發是確定而且它的氣源是穩定的話對於中原公司來講它是一個非常重要的一個能源進口來源"},{"start":4179.249,"end":4207.191,"text":"那我們希望要降低政黨間的不同的一些壓力當然現在共和黨但是如果民主黨的話民主黨會不會對這個部分是有一些他的不同的看法也許他對環境的議題對各方的有一些不同的看法這個要請經濟部門終於要納入審慎思考啦好那再來我請教一下除了這個之外很多人也會建議說其實我們對一些基礎建設比如說港口比如說重要的美國重要的港口我們也建立更多的合作的一些機制這個部長的看法呢"},{"start":4212.814,"end":4230.14,"text":"港口的部分當然美國他是有陸陸續續有一些港灣的設施那麼尋求台灣重用公司能不能一起進行評估跟投入那目前有幾個項目都是在評估當中不過"},{"start":4230.939,"end":4257.778,"text":"中國公司來講目前是以阿拉斯加的一個計畫為首要的一個方向 為首要啦齁那如果港口的建設的話這些基礎建設的話對我們穩定上面也會會有所幫助我想會有幫助只是我們要從我們的供應的供應鏈這個角度來去看如果說其他地區的港口設施呢事實上我們不能從那邊去取得相關的油源或氣源的話去投資那個區塊變成"},{"start":4259.359,"end":4277.816,"text":"這個當然投資上是以取得有緣去緣為最主要的關鍵就是它只要我們能夠取得更穩定的同時有更多的這整體上的思考這個再請經濟部門 中友整體的評估報告也再給我一份 好嗎好不好 正義那另外我請教一下其實中友南部的員工相當多啦我剛剛也提到非常多重大的建設都在"},{"start":4278.416,"end":4290.802,"text":"南部然後那現在我們的北高雄有一些的那個南高雄的部分有沒有可能設立一個被勤的宿舍讓更多的同仁們能夠在就近的時候能夠得到更好的一個休息跟照顧來董事長"},{"start":4293.903,"end":4312.69,"text":"我想這個也涉及到國營事業相關的一個管理的法規的允不允許那或許我們會跟國營事這邊來共同探討有關這些規定能不能有解釋或者是限制的到底各種條件是如何"},{"start":4313.77,"end":4336.042,"text":"當地的很多的在地的啦不管是工會或是員工有很多這樣的一個期待啦就說他不管是477、四星或者是大林電廠或大林的一些煉油廠或等等幾個有很多的這樣的期待希望就近啦那我覺得這個還是請董事長來思考一下啦好不好好 也另外跟持續員工會跟所有的同仁們做一些溝通是的 是的"},{"start":4336.742,"end":4353.193,"text":"另外其實現在有很多的托育政策也很重要啦其實各大企業都在做這件事情啦那中油做一個這麼大的一個企業體其實如果對員工有更多的支持也讓我們中油的員工更勇於生育孩子啦這也是減少我們少子化一個也是重要的因素"},{"start":4353.553,"end":4377.568,"text":"那現在很多的比較集中在北高雄的部分包括我們的台北北台灣甚至台北嘉義苗栗高雄的男子有了啦比較反倒比較南部的不管是小港或林園這個重鎮反倒比較沒有這樣的一個可不可以加速來設置這個托幼的一些設施讓員工中幼員工的孩子們可以就近得到更多的照顧"},{"start":4378.348,"end":4391.305,"text":"是 是 我想這個方向是沒有錯啦對於我們同仁的子女的尤其是托嬰的部分能夠照顧是最好了不過以這個林園地區來講主要還是在於有沒有足夠的這個空間能夠辦理這樣一個設施"},{"start":4394.428,"end":4421.014,"text":"方向上董事長是贊同那空間就請董事長去努力好不好如果有的話一樣給我一份評估的報告最後我要提醒一下中油的環保其實這6年來累積破億的一個公安事故這個還是因為有上限才會只是6億要不然會更高那件數其實也都相當多累積了322件這個要拜託部長跟董事長要公安要持續的改善"},{"start":4421.494,"end":4446.255,"text":"甚至於未來透過更多AI的技術去更有效的去監控啦不要讓第一線的同仁面對公安的危機甚至有時候失去一條性命甚至失去一個家庭的依靠這個都很重要所以我們希望這一塊請中遊跟部裡面要大力來推動我們持續努力好 謝謝好 謝謝賴委員 謝謝兩位部長跟董事長來 那麼現在請問各位同仁上次會議亦似乎有錯誤"},{"start":4447.403,"end":4451.108,"text":"沒有 那我們一數確認接下來請陳廷輝委員發言謝謝主席 我們請經濟部部長有請管部長"},{"start":4471.387,"end":4476.454,"text":"陳委員 早安部長 我想最近每個人都在問我們我們的油可以動多久我們的天然氣可以動多久"},{"start":4481.711,"end":4504.92,"text":"因為我們油品的這個備用存量都可以達到140幾到150天所以這個是沒有問題天然氣的部分現在就是大概是12天左右法定是11天那現在大概都會超過11天都沒有問題那現在6月份7月份都已經調度差不多完成那現在我們往這個第四季來設計來調度"},{"start":4506.721,"end":4525.615,"text":"所以六七沒有問題現在往第四季下去做一些準備儲量的部分那麼我們中東的戰局會到什麼時候誰都無法預測那我們現在我們預計可以調度的第四季有信心嗎"},{"start":4527.737,"end":4539.851,"text":"剛剛事實上那個董事長已經講說已經左手沒有問題左手跟有沒有信心有沒有方向有沒有目標這差很多他剛剛講沒有問題來董事長"},{"start":4543.334,"end":4558.183,"text":"我想这两个区块一个游乐部分一个天然气的部分天然气部分我想应该没有问题了因为我们最紧张的时候都已经调度完成了所以目前比较和缓的情况当然更没有问题我们开始着手第四季的部分"},{"start":4558.923,"end":4586.799,"text":"油的部分我也跟委員報告現在的中東情勢雖然海峽沒有完全開放不過主要的生產國包括了沙烏地阿拉伯跟阿聯酋他們都尋求了一個替代的方案譬如說管線送到紅海端送出來或者是說用油輪載到海峽外用船對船的一個交運的方式把原油送出來這個都已經有替代方案了"},{"start":4587.259,"end":4614.397,"text":"那另外很重要就是我們可是這個替代方案已經準備要執行了嗎還是已經在執行了已經在執行中了所以目前在整個所謂這些替代的這個轉運的方式已經沒有問題了就是不進入到中東緊張情勢的範圍我們用另外一個區塊然後和緩的完成這樣的一個原油交易的過程是"},{"start":4615.057,"end":4642.588,"text":"所以這個已經進行中而且也順利對 只是它出口量的話沒有跟這個佔錢來比的話數量是減少的減少多少應該差不多是40%左右40%左右 可是你知道其他國家可以有出口的情況可是很多國家已經開始在執行現有的一些策略我們台灣最主要的原油的進口來源是在美國"},{"start":4646.965,"end":4660.857,"text":"我知道我的意思是說現在很多國家因為沒有辦法掌控中東的情勢開始在做現有的動作那我們會不會受到這一波的波及或衝擊"},{"start":4661.926,"end":4685.231,"text":"目前看不出來會有這種情形不會就對了所以我們認為我們的天然氣沒有問題了最緊張的時候都過了所以天然氣沒有問題那在油的部分因為已經有找到了替代的一個轉接的方式所以這個部分也沒有問題而且我們主要的對象是美國所以這個"},{"start":4688.032,"end":4710.1,"text":"我們對接的過程都順暢目前都掌控這樣的訊息我覺得因為大家會擔心我們在基層跑的時候大家都會問這句話我們雨可以動多久 起可以動多久所以今天我會特地問我們的部長還有我們的董事長是希望透過你們"},{"start":4711.681,"end":4739.584,"text":"的說法很清楚的呈現我們已經都準備就緒了六七五月沒有問題第四季也已經有好的方向跟目標了然後甚至是我們的替代方案轉接的替代方案都已經OK在執行當中了都沒有問題了我覺得這些信心的說法很重要因為你知道由一往上跳"},{"start":4740.345,"end":4765.984,"text":"整個物價就往上跳這是很直接的這是避不了的而且也控制不了的那就算是我們現在我們在油跟氣我們都一起掌控到我們所謂的一些漲價的區塊可是還是需要有一些信心的喊話好 謝謝那我要問我們自來水的部分"},{"start":4767.759,"end":4772.081,"text":"我們要降低漏水率從114年到121年這個部分我們總共在台南市114年到121年總經費是57億對不對"},{"start":4783.988,"end":4796.292,"text":"跟委員報告這個57億是我們會持續滾動性檢討會滾動性檢討所以有可能更多對有可能有可能更多好那我先講115年編列的經費是6.7億對不對好那你們滾動式檢討我們116年可能會到達怎麼樣的基數"},{"start":4807.605,"end":4830.53,"text":"跟委員報告大概我們台南地區目前的往往的漏水率是全省是最低的他只有大概7點到114年底是已經第7%以下我們現在是預計要降到121年是希望到平均漏水率的6.25%以下對這是台南地區"},{"start":4835.171,"end":4847.038,"text":"公司全省平均起來要降到10%以下我知道因為我們目標是最好最低的當然啊我知道啊那我們希望還要好還要更好啊"},{"start":4847.922,"end":4871.596,"text":"我們不能跟別人去比啊你說別人漏水率比我們還高所以我們是要往其他的地方去走這樣不對啊對我們來說我們漏水率在地北我們中央的協助不是啊 所以我們是希望到121年台南的平均漏水率可以降到6.25%以下"},{"start":4874.871,"end":4900.077,"text":"我們會努力這個部分因為我們在115年編列的6.7億那就像我講的我就是怕我們的漏水率低你把我們的滾動式檢討之後把我們的錢拿去給別人不會啦 不會喔 要記得喔這個是千萬不可的喔我們越認真的人 越怕病的人越在顧我們公司的人等到我們的錢比較少不會啦 不會 不會"},{"start":4903.258,"end":4928.372,"text":"不能是這個樣子喔所以這個要拜託然後在另外在我們無自來水地區供水改善計畫我們不斷的爭取因為我們台南市是直轄市所以很多人說我們還有很多沒住來住的地方都沒辦法想到無法想像說台南市是六都之一所以我們現在"},{"start":4930.5,"end":4958.698,"text":"我們台南市的普及率是99%你不能這麼說啦我們是六都耶我們是六都耶好我現在要拜託我們在115年其實在今年10月底我們陸續會完成上化的歐洲曆新華的太平曆安定的新界曆跟我們南華的我們的社保南西的教興曆跟我們南西的頑苦曆"},{"start":4961.76,"end":4984.086,"text":"我們希望後面的預算我們需要達到百分之一百啦好不好好 拜託我們後續對 我們後續要再繼續啦我們不可以讓人覺得說我們落刀耶 落刀快要沒辦法來這個地方好 拜託 謝謝好 我們大家一起努力好 謝謝陳立芬委員 來請回座請回座"},{"start":4991.069,"end":5012.241,"text":"來 下位資訊請洪義祥委員好 謝謝主席有請鍾游芳董事長跟張總經理以及張總經理好 董事長好好 委員長"},{"start":5013.786,"end":5036.253,"text":"我想今天的話就是外媒美伊戰爭這裡點名台灣說今天有剩45天那很怕我們會成為重災區我想要請教一下董事長或總經理就到底這樣子的一個消息真的假的如果他的估計是這樣我們後續有什麼因應的一個做法"},{"start":5037.779,"end":5060.496,"text":"市委跟委員報告,這個報導所講的精煉油應該指的就是我們我們正常去講所謂清油或者叫石油腦那麼石油腦它的來源就是原油去煉製以後的其中的一個產品那麼以他這邊講的話,精煉油剩45天我想這個數字不會太差別"},{"start":5063.958,"end":5077.183,"text":"對台灣來講45天所謂的精煉油NOXA這個東西應該沒有太大的差別但是我們還有另外一個管道的來源就是從國外進口包括台塑化也是這個樣子"},{"start":5078.308,"end":5097.756,"text":"那麼只要在周邊的國家或者是美國地區那會不會花更多的錢去補充這一個安全的供給量石油腦的話它的價格它有一個國際的一個通用的一個價格就按照國際的價格來就是yes or no這樣子就好應該不會保證無虞嘛"},{"start":5099.279,"end":5114.022,"text":"數量上我想沒有問題那就好了我只是擔心因為這裡頭還牽扯到一些後續像天然氣等等的供應剛剛一些委員問了所以只要在Q4我們確保因為這裡頭還隱含這件事因為我們會用更多的錢對不對"},{"start":5115.123,"end":5129.59,"text":"去搶這些油或天然氣所以你可能的財報不會很好看我只是先提醒好那為什麼會這樣講因為我把這個預算書當然整本的你們的報告我大概都看完就是說"},{"start":5130.43,"end":5134.914,"text":"我覺得今年的預估是說從去年來講114年你預估的盈餘是63.74億加正的但實際的損益是虧了89.05億差距是152.79億那你今年又估了說會正65.26億"},{"start":5150.976,"end":5162.273,"text":"我看一下你們估的水準原油期貨均價目前1到4月大概是85塊美元一桶可是你們的預算股大概是76.5大概高了11%這樣會不會又達不到或是過度樂觀"},{"start":5168.147,"end":5188.677,"text":"我想先說明,那麼115年的預算是113年編的那時候編的話是認為大概今年的平均預算是76.52月18號發生中東情勢之後,油價急劇攀升這個知道,所以我們會看起來這個數字你們會再做新的預估吧"},{"start":5189.552,"end":5214.764,"text":"現在我們根據14家的國際機構去評估新的預估出來是說預算書那個是已經出來的數字那可能你也沒辦法去更動那我說就企業經營它一定是動態的嘛所以你可能再給我一個報告好不好大概你現在根據這樣的價格以及美伊戰爭這幾天又稍微緊張一點比較精準的數字可不可以先送到我辦公室這樣來"},{"start":5215.945,"end":5219.773,"text":"好不好因為我覺得我們管公司看財報一定是隨時掌握這個數字再來的話"},{"start":5225.466,"end":5246.16,"text":"我也發現就是我們115年度投入515.58億用在建設改良擴充這個當然是支持但是高達81.23%的percent要透過舉債來支應那我們預算中心也去算了一下你外界的資金又比去年7成又上升到8成"},{"start":5247.361,"end":5272.282,"text":"所以你的債務的結構是有點負擔沉重因為你的負債大概已經4400多億然後你的營運資金是負的2966億所以基本上來講這樣子的一個營運的承受能力我覺得從我企業經營以前的角度來看我覺得這個是風險很高因為可能你的油價匯率或利率一些波動就完了所以這個經營的績效怎麼辦"},{"start":5275.84,"end":5300.186,"text":"有關這個舉債的部分確實如果有人這樣所講我們自己經濟階層也認為是很危險因為負債比93%對那對於這個要新興投入的這個投資計畫的話用舉債的方式來去因應會進一步的加深我們的財富負擔那個利息支出更高所以因此我們才會提出來說希望能夠政府"},{"start":5300.686,"end":5319.632,"text":"同意我們用這個方式來處理所以我覺得這件事情也可能跟一些東西有關因為我們也不能說每一次都是政策支持因為就是還有一些所謂的經營績效像我們的海外投資這個也經常的失利那我想今天我大概只是點出這個問題"},{"start":5321.212,"end":5349.29,"text":"那我可能就後續再請你們再去告訴我說到底我們現在這58.1億你這些投資探勘過去投資的金額成效比以及你的退場的這些機制是什麼那當然像天然氣我也覺得你們也是因為能源結構嘛橋接能源性的定位的問題所以在我們預算中心去看的話你這幾個重大的一個投資15項裡頭有8項是沒辦法回收的啦"},{"start":5349.79,"end":5372.052,"text":"那這沒辦法回收的話呢基本上總投資大概4564.7天然氣相關設施就高達75.18這個是在我們15項裡面的這裡頭所以我覺得這個你每年的利息攤提價102.66億很高啊所以你這個政策的support這應該也不是你們中流的決定吧"},{"start":5373.022,"end":5398.049,"text":"當然這是要報部有行政院決定的就是這是政策的支持所導致嘛那我想這個就請鐘友這個同仁拍一下就好了好不好這個書面給我一些報告因為我現在來不及讓你看好接下來我們請台水最後一個小問題就好台水李董事長好那個台水的話當然這也是董事長請回"},{"start":5399.81,"end":5428.036,"text":"我們台水這邊來講的話就是受水量的增加然後收入就是反而降低這個在我看這個財報上是很奇怪然後你的虧損是擴大稅前虧損大概擴大到69.15億就是比去年增加35.6%那長期的借款也大概625億這個折舊利息雪上加霜這不曉得董事長這邊有什麼看法"},{"start":5428.902,"end":5458.375,"text":"跟委員報告其實公司110年最主要的一些成本的支出裡面所講的這個折舊跟利息那這個利息的部分當然是整個我們的利率提高這幾年來央行利率有提高那折舊的部分就是公司這邊就是為了要穩定供水我們辦理一些你這個再告訴我因為你的售水量是增加但是你的總收入是減少的"},{"start":5458.775,"end":5486.974,"text":"因為我的供水負擔太高對沒有錯然後另外一個漏水很嚴重這個也給我報告就是你800億的這個漏水的危機這個KPL看起來是很不明剛剛你們念了一大堆AI我聽了真的會哀你知道嗎因為完全不是很清楚因為漏水率還是很嚴重好不好那我想這個後面的報告也請這一個台水的同仁拍一下在左半部這個地方再交給我一週內好不好書面的報告可以嗎好謝謝"},{"start":5488.895,"end":5496,"text":"謝謝主席我想要請中油的董事長總經理 中油幫董 張總經理等一下再請工部長"},{"start":5522.548,"end":5526.111,"text":"董事長去年表示負債比會高達93%今年又有物價穩定政策"},{"start":5537.582,"end":5564.509,"text":"未來你們預計有可能會虧損多少因為你們說現在是平均你們的購油成本是85美桶然後相較於你們當初編列預算是76.5美元每桶已經高出很多那未來你們預計會不會跌破你們的淨值警戒線那以及你們是不是有具體的增資跟財務改善計畫"},{"start":5566.219,"end":5583.819,"text":"跟委員報告目前預估到年底實際會什麼情形嚴格講現在很難預估因為這個原料端成本的部分中東這邊還在變來變去的那麼銷售端的部分的話又我們要配合這個政府的物價的一個"},{"start":5585.4,"end":5606.797,"text":"控制一個策略所以目前這兩端我們就是每個月每一週來去檢討要如何去呼應去應對這個事情所以委員問我說到年底會怎麼情形我現在目前是很難回答你了你會不會跌破啊當然一定是不能讓它跌破一定是不能這樣子"},{"start":5610.1,"end":5615.732,"text":"不能那是怎麼樣子不能你有什麼財務改善總經理首先就是說總經理這是你的專長吧總經理"},{"start":5618.841,"end":5642.262,"text":"財務改善是因為這個現象我們也跟部裡面報告所以部裡面就是讓我們把前一陣子研議的四年那個增資計畫現在提出來那不讓我們現在的一個負債比持續增加的話也有個就是借款的一個專案的一個融資由中央銀行出來協調巴拉航庫給中央公司"},{"start":5642.902,"end":5668.212,"text":"除了這個借款能夠數量得到的話那我們可以持續的能夠有足夠的資金去買油跟氣來充分供應國內所需求那利率部分當然希望緊張幫助中油啦那這些都是一些政府那你們要增資還是要改善那個就是說增加在費用因為這涉及到能不能打消累計盈虧的部分嗎 是不是"},{"start":5668.732,"end":5696.261,"text":"是就是兩部分一部分是我們營運上面不要再讓這個負債持續增加所以要一個專案融資的一個安排另外就是說為了剛剛委員你提到我們不要跌破禁止這部分就需要一個來增值來因應所以這兩雙管齊下來協助中央公司持續的能夠很健康的來照顧這個國內的郵寄需求能夠吸收這些進口波動的這麼巨大的幅度"},{"start":5697.042,"end":5703.197,"text":"那請一下部長好了 那部長 部裡面是是支持哪一個部分"},{"start":5706.557,"end":5733.549,"text":"包委員除了剛剛那兩項之外這個貸款的部分協商現在行政院已經幫我們協商大概完成了那那個明年的預算明年的預算應該增至大概1700億左右1600多億那我們會提出去那另外還有一個現在就是說主席總書現在在幫忙我們就是說今年度有沒有可能給我們一些撥補的機會他現在正在統籌看看要多少錢"},{"start":5734.43,"end":5735.634,"text":"如果今年度不撥補會不會跌破鏡子"},{"start":5739.464,"end":5760.853,"text":"應該還不會所以明年增資就要完成就是那個增加資本就要完成那還有就是說現在因為國際上就是希望說就是就是國際民航組織他們的檢探規範就是希望採用那個SAF就是這個具體永續航空用油那未來"},{"start":5767.316,"end":5787.515,"text":"是不是中油也预计已经要做了对不对已经有了我说明一下董事长报告委员有关这个SARF永续航燃目前在我们桃园电子厂已经有个工厂在改变当中了6月份就可以开始市社会生产出来这个SARF这样子"},{"start":5788.215,"end":5802.184,"text":"那請問未來我們生產的就是製產的SUV跟現在目前我們是從外面購置SUV嘛對不對那有什麼差別那成本上面呢品質上沒有差別"},{"start":5804.625,"end":5831.076,"text":"那供應鏈呢會不會有差別因為我們是從廢油廢的食用油裡面提煉出來的嘛那未來會不會有可能就是說我們在回收的部分如果沒有完整的供應的鏈那變成說我們即使有產油的這樣子的系統但是在供應端沒有一個良好的回收系統會不會有產生斷鏈的情況"},{"start":5832.39,"end":5854.529,"text":"目前國內有兩家業者專門在收集這個所謂的廢食用油然後他們去精煉精煉完以後變成進入我們煉油廠的原料所以在供應的部分應該是沒有問題的只是它的量總量會受限制那總量呢有沒有辦法供應就是我們的自產秩序呢"},{"start":5855.612,"end":5870.454,"text":"當然可以啊 國內所需要的 那要看那個交通部門他所需要的量的多寡而定啦好 那謝謝部長 那我現在請台水的董事長台水李董事長"},{"start":5872.084,"end":5890.219,"text":"董事長請問一下你說預計漏水率要降低到11.19%你們現在編列了68億元的防漏工程以及你們要運用AI的系統"},{"start":5891.48,"end":5914,"text":"在這個上面你怎麼樣精準而不是說就是說不是補丁式的這樣子的一個防漏的那個而是整體的這個不會說造成未來的負擔你怎麼樣做是跟委員報告其實公司降低漏水力除了我們辦理一些老舊的管線更新需要投入比較多的經會在辦理這些比較"},{"start":5914.78,"end":5936.516,"text":"老舊的管線去汰換之外我們自己內部也在一些供水管網上我們裝了很多的監測系統就是SCADA然後我們可以加強在一些水壓管理的部分那利用這些SCADA的資訊我們會公知自己內部也研發一個這個WADA的系統"},{"start":5937.296,"end":5955.405,"text":"可以藉由這些的水壓流量的監測我們可以去做一些分區的劑量管理那這些劑量管理之外另外我們也跟工研院合作做一些比較老舊的管線有地下漏水的部分我們也用這種開發那種深測的AI這個科技來協助我們"},{"start":5960.691,"end":5975.601,"text":"好部長最後我一個問題就是說現在我們積極在推動珍珠串跟備援的調度的幹管工程那我最重要的就是針對石化到新竹還有石門水庫到新竹然後珍文水庫到南化"},{"start":5981.564,"end":6002.594,"text":"這樣子的這個管線因為畢竟就是如果面臨到強降雨或者乾旱的時候怎麼樣子不會讓我們的這個半導體的供應鏈的用水缺乏那畢竟我們現在供應了全球重大的這些半導體的晶片那這是我們所有產業的龍頭那這也會影響到所有的"},{"start":6007.236,"end":6022.222,"text":"各縣市尤其彰化縣相關的供應鏈的這樣子的問題那我是不是想請問你一下就是怎麼樣子不會確保水源能夠充足以及不會排擠到民生相關的用水"},{"start":6023.164,"end":6046.777,"text":"報告委員我想新竹地區原來在2021年那時候大乾旱的時候我們就有一條自來水管已經通了後來因為用水量增加所以我們現在做了一條原管原水管大概應該是明年明年就可以通了通了以後大概就沒有問題了然後後續還會有天花湖水庫如果再蓋好的話"},{"start":6047.717,"end":6076.92,"text":"那供應量就會更大所以整個中部地區跟這個新竹地區大概就沒有問題了好好好謝謝喔那一定要確保就是說第一個就是說不要排擠到民生用水以及確保就是我們的半導體的用水能夠供應無虞好不好好謝謝謝謝分委員請大家先回座我們在那個林議員之言之後我們休息休息6分鐘來接下來下一位請"},{"start":6078.221,"end":6093.915,"text":"鄭正前委員謝主席我想請來經濟部工部長還有我們台水的李教授"},{"start":6099.913,"end":6116.227,"text":"部長好我在想說就是水是民生必需品跟電是一樣的那我想說中華民國國民正常水價跟電價都應該要有同樣的一個收費的標準不應該有差別待遇部長認不認同"},{"start":6119.501,"end":6129.187,"text":"方向上認同我們來看一下因為台水最主要的業務就是自來水的一個產銷這個營業狀況常年都處在虧損的狀態我們看一下這111年到115年台水公司自來水產銷收支表我們發現他從111年虧損15.56億到了113年的時候已經虧損到了85.83億"},{"start":6149.044,"end":6151.236,"text":"那我想請教一下就是"},{"start":6154.653,"end":6181.631,"text":"我們115年的預算的部分的時候預計的虧損是85.83億啦就是數字不斷的升高那我想說我們看到為什麼我一開始問部長說整個中華民國應該水電的用費標準應該都可以一致最主要是因為我們看到一個情況是台水跟北水的一個收費標準其實完全不同那台水的收費標準我們分成四級51度以上"},{"start":6182.031,"end":6198.162,"text":"就是每一度價格就是12.08元就是你用了1000度也都是這樣的價錢51度以上都是這麼多那北水的狀態它分了五級那它從少少的用水的時候"},{"start":6199.683,"end":6227.582,"text":"對民生的一個保障是一度只有五塊錢很少到了一千度以上的時候會變成一度是二十元那這樣的兩個標準的一個差別在哪裡在於北水的一個狀態的時候對於民生比較少的一個用途的用量的時候事實上收費比較低就確保我們民生供水的狀態可是如果是用水大戶的時候用的多那他可能就要負擔比較多的一個"},{"start":6228.622,"end":6250.288,"text":"費用那這個部分我們看這兩種不同的一個收費標準的時候然後台水的收費標準從83年到現在其實都沒有變那北水是從106年的時候開始做這樣的一個標準的情況那請部長一下請問部長一下為什麼會特別提到這兩種不同的收費標準是因為"},{"start":6250.828,"end":6267.978,"text":"都是中華民國國民我在想說用水的一個費用應該是可以用等量來期關而且我們發現如果台水用北水的方式的標準的時候也可以大幅的減少台水虧損的一個部分我們看到台水從109到113年"},{"start":6270.419,"end":6280.457,"text":"就是用水集聚跟用溫水量佔比的時候我們發現51度以上的大概只佔了4%左右的一個"},{"start":6281.69,"end":6309.634,"text":"用戶可是他們用水量大概高達了40%就表示台水的用戶當中的時候用水大戶佔的比例很少可是用的水量非常的多那這個部分可以請部長做一個回應一下我們台水這邊要改善台水的一個虧損的一個狀態那針對這個部分去跟北水的一個收費標準看其實不是一個解決的方式"},{"start":6311.271,"end":6336.972,"text":"現在台水公司剛剛那個董事長有跟我講就是說他們那個集聚可能會稍微拉大而且那個集聚會增多啦然後來做一個比較合理的一些相關規劃我是不是請那個董事長說明一下可以嘿跟委員報告這個水價的議題是跟民生經濟息息相關啦那我們水公司在去年的3月大概我們有針對我們"},{"start":6339.134,"end":6356.113,"text":"現行的一個水價做了一個檢討那目前我們也報給經濟部有水利署現在在審議中那我們一個水價調整的就如同委員剛才所指導的就是我們會拉大這個用水戶"},{"start":6357.394,"end":6371.262,"text":"用水量更多的用戶他應該繳更多的一個錢而且他的就是那個集計我們會增加現行的四段會拉到七段或八段那原則上民生的部分我們是不太會去"},{"start":6372.603,"end":6397.91,"text":"做變動 只是把用水量多的這個用戶所以我們到時候台水的新的標準會分成七到八級的狀態來做一個分別那我們希望盡可能的跟因為我們就北水這部分相對合理用水量少的民生用水的時候費用低那保障民生那用水大戶的時候呢那他們的費用要高一些我覺得這也能夠"},{"start":6398.93,"end":6424.847,"text":"來解決台水的虧損的一個情況好不好那這部分大概什麼時候會正式生效推出來這個我們的監察報告已經送到經濟部水利署這邊那因為我剛才報告這個水價的一個調整是會涉及到我們整個國家整個社會經濟的一個發展而且要有一個高度的共識的時候預計什麼時候會推出新的一個方案"},{"start":6426.564,"end":6444.873,"text":"我們現在只有檢討報告送給輸入鏈現在只有檢討報告嗎資助費跟本席報告一下大概什麼時候可以去調整因為我覺得這樣子的一個調整才有可能解決台水虧損的問題因為台水是油電糖水當中要解決虧損相對容易的一個公司那我想說接下來我想請教一下那個中油"},{"start":6446.113,"end":6471.985,"text":"請教部長因為那個交通部有具體表示2030年的要使用那個SAF就是永續航空燃油要達到5%那其實去年其實包括華航跟長榮他們也都具體宣布未來3到5年會採購台塑的SAF的部分那這個部分是很清楚那剛剛"},{"start":6472.965,"end":6482.62,"text":"我聽到方董事長有提到說我們今年六月的時候桃園這邊會有一個新的廠來投入我們SF部分那我在想說針對這個部分的時候"},{"start":6485.796,"end":6507.961,"text":"台塑石化他們已經算是先佔市場當中因為兩大的那個航空公司都表示未來3到5年是採購他們的狀態那我們中油這邊要怎麼樣子就是投入這個市場當中然後爭取更好的一個市場的表現那我再把稍微講一下因為那個我們看到我們看到中油公司115到115年"},{"start":6510.221,"end":6533.606,"text":"天然氣都成長所有的油品類除了航空燃油基本上都是下降的一個狀態那航空燃油成長21%算是非常的一個多就表示這個部分的需求非常的多那我們中油有沒有可能在整個航空運輸SF部分的時候能夠加快進度然後怎麼樣子能夠提高這樣子一個更完整的一個供應鏈讓台灣的這個SF其實能夠儘早達成"},{"start":6537.427,"end":6565.246,"text":"交通部定出来的2030年5%的一个标准可不可以请部长总董事长简单回应一下那个有关于我们自产的部分总略略开始试车以后就会陆陆续产出来预定今年大概会有700公柄的100%的我们叫700公柄那么会逐步提高它的一个纯度以及量最高会到达12000公柄"},{"start":6567.827,"end":6592.261,"text":"所以以這個量來講的話對於國內的航空業我們所供應的對象應該是可以足量供應OK好那我最後就特別再提一個狀態因為我發現中油的一個探勘費用我今年大概預計編了58億那過去的一個質詢力其實都不高針對這個部分請之後來本辦公室做一個很詳細的一個報告好不好因為主席已經站起來了不耽擱這個時間謝謝"},{"start":6595.507,"end":6616.096,"text":"謝謝政政協議員 請回座那消費指引請李玉玲委員謝謝主席 請經濟部的工部長跟我們中油的方董事長中油方董事長"},{"start":6619.909,"end":6647.322,"text":"部長 還有我們董事長美伊戰爭已經超過了這70天中東的局勢 仍然是非常的不明朗對於我們台灣是非常仰賴著能源是進口的方式所以對於這國際情勢的動盪對我們來講是非常大的一個挑戰那至今到現在我們中油 已經吸收了這個成本將近142億所以我想請問一下這個我們"},{"start":6648.422,"end":6675.451,"text":"董事長 到4月底啊已經我們140億是這就汽柴油的部分 對 其他還有其他吸收的主要是140億啦 所以我想請問一下董事長那像到4月底 我們的虧損是多少我們的財務虧損多少到4月底的一個營運情形 還要等待跟公司董事會報告目前大概將近800億嘛"},{"start":6677.976,"end":6694.266,"text":"到3月份3月份是800億到3月份累積是賺了15億賺了15億不是我是全部累積的啦累積規準791億那到4月底那是3月的 到4月底沒有輸出嗎"},{"start":6695.873,"end":6708.078,"text":"就是4月的經營情形目前還沒跟董事會報好那就是虧損那因為我們的財務虧損的情形所以經濟部也提出了4年3500億的這個增資計畫對不對現在已經送到行政院了那現在大概什麼時候會訂單出來呢"},{"start":6715.29,"end":6726.617,"text":"那個是明年的預算所以我們會送預算出去今年 今年編明年的預算會編出去就這四年3500億會同意一年編1600億分幾年分四年嘛 對不對好"},{"start":6731.28,"end":6756.113,"text":"那所以這3,500億有確定定案了就明年的預算就會同意了吧對 明年會編1,600多億好 就是逐年啦 用逐年的方式那但是我們還是可以用其他的這個除了增資計畫的話經濟部你有提到這個專案融資喔那專案融資的話就可能是借新的來還舊的嘛那降低了這個利息的成本那另外 另外有預算撥補預算撥補的話 我請問方董事長"},{"start":6759.255,"end":6775.83,"text":"你認為多少預算撥補能夠去彌補你這個虧損的情形你一定要多少撥補今年的預算撥補其實還在行政院的討論當中還沒出來你們應該有底數啊不然我們部長怎麼樣撥補給你呢所以目前還在討論當中還在討論那討論中有個數字大概多少希望撥補預算多少"},{"start":6786.386,"end":6811.194,"text":"目前沒有很明確的一個沒有數額的討論不是 因為現在就是說估計啦 到底是要以六月份來估計還是九月份就是戰爭的情勢啦所以你是怕說四月份虧損了五月份還虧損 六月份虧損虧損多的話 你們撥補就更多了就是估算所以你第二天你就才會估算啦"},{"start":6812.654,"end":6838.802,"text":"那我們希望能夠對我們棕油的這個虧損我們經濟部要多一點撥補好不好我們會跟主義總署反映也就是主義總署現在正在彙整是減低他們財務的壓力啦是是是好不好那接下來因為我們知道這個我們原油跟天然氣都是進口那我們不能把它都集中在一個特定區域應該要分散啦風險的分散那目前我們跟澳洲跟尼日都有進行這個原油的開採業務是不是"},{"start":6841.613,"end":6869.88,"text":"是那我們在2005年的時候我們在台灣周遭地方都有在做這個油氣的探勘作業但是到了2024年我們的虧損有33億是不是這有碰到什麼困難嗎技術方面呢還是我們區域方面的這個原因非常有限我想這個主要原因是在於因為國外的油氣它的資產的價值是隨著國際價格去可是我們在台灣周遭的探勘"},{"start":6873.294,"end":6888.413,"text":"是你說委員好那在台灣的海域部分是虧損因為當初在新竹外海產跟有機田的方面是什麼問題就是因為當初的運產量是我們的油氣比較有限還是我們的技術問題"},{"start":6889.696,"end":6907.476,"text":"技術都是跟國際合作但是我們天然的條件運產量方面不如預期那陸上部分是累積獲利相當豐厚那國外部分呢還有帶開採的運產量帶實現的利益所以以國內海域方面是虧損國際陸上跟國外都是賺錢的"},{"start":6909.138,"end":6928.578,"text":"我現在問的是台灣海域周遭的問題已經虧損33億了如果有困難的話就像美國我們現在擴大跟美國採購對不對在技術方面的話可不可以請美國人來協助我們這個技術方面好不好我們積極去討論好我們方董事長請回我們請自然水公司的李董事長自然水公司李董事長是"},{"start":6930.233,"end":6945.532,"text":"董事長我們的自來水一直都有些透過長期有自行吸收的一些成本我們都知道但是我們的水資源是非常重要的那我們看到台灣未來會面對這個缺水"},{"start":6948.275,"end":6961.046,"text":"跟乾旱的這個問題會越來越高那這樣子我們就要再來檢討一下開拓新的水源而且最重要我們還要節約用水那所以如何降低自來水公司我們的漏水率的問題我們看到這幾年來下來在2024年這漏水率平均"},{"start":6967.052,"end":6983.509,"text":"11.99%就是我們的標準啦12%是有達到但是這個是平均值的數字好看而已啦但是你看其他地方將近有20%的漏水率像新竹啊那個基隆跟那個新北這個地方這是有什麼問題嗎你們有沒有具體的這個檢討呢"},{"start":6986.711,"end":7010.146,"text":"跟委員報告基隆是他是比較早開發的一個城市而且他基隆的一個供水是漏水的問題他供水他因為地形上的一個關係區域地方高地啊他都是在丘陵我們的一些建物都在丘陵上所以我們設了很多的加壓站那這些管線承受的"},{"start":7011.357,"end":7021.604,"text":"水壓比較大之後就比較容易漏水公司這幾年也積極投入在基隆地區有積極的 我知道我們2025年開始就有編列808億在2032年我們全台漏水率能夠降2%"},{"start":7031.211,"end":7051.701,"text":"對 降10%以下可是我希望董事長你要重視那個有高漏水率的地方看很多在20%左右的你看這個除了基隆以外還有花蓮還有屏東都是高漏水的地方節煙能源水質也很重要你的漏水率一定要再降低好不好還有無自來水的部分我想跟董事長"},{"start":7052.501,"end":7063.892,"text":"無自來水的地方雖然說每個地方都達到99% 98%但是還有那個不到2%的地方他們沒有自來水我們必須編的經費我們也看到你編了很多的經費啦75億的經費在這個5年裡面你們要把它完成喔那我希望"},{"start":7070.899,"end":7084.697,"text":"這個2%不到2%的這個無自來水區域的話它就是有困難度我們應該用專案的方式好不好你不要用一般的規範來要求他們來申請給他們專案協助他們可以申請好不好能夠達到百分之百 有沒有信心"},{"start":7086.138,"end":7114.976,"text":"你預算都編出來啦其實有很多比較偏遠的地區就是偏遠 剩下的2%就是偏遠所以我們用 我們專案我們討論一下用什麼專案可以協助他們都能夠用水他們有來申請可是有些條件上他們沒辦法符合我希望我們用心一點來協助他們因為自來水是國水我們讓每一個民眾都可以喝到我們的自來水好不好好 如果我們供應可及的話我們會盡量來協助在規範上我們調整一下用專案的方式"},{"start":7115.356,"end":7116.618,"text":"好 謝謝主席 休息六分鐘"},{"start":7429.155,"end":7429.34,"text":"谢谢观看,下次见!"},{"start":7487.987,"end":7501.241,"text":"好 我們這期官員請先就座好好 我們現在繼續開會下位之言請鍾嘉斌委員"},{"start":7511.963,"end":7513.366,"text":"還有台灣中油的方董事長中油公司方董事長"},{"start":7527.396,"end":7554.753,"text":"總委好部長好 董事長好配合自備發電建制燃料電池地圖因應產業需求超前部署LH管線來 先請教一下部長你是不是有說過當供電趕不上擴產的時候我們政府是鼓勵用電大戶自備發電對 就是表後的那個部分的那個好 那請教一下你看我們台灣目前的工業用電超過55%嘛所以我們用電主要是以工業用電為主嘛 對不對"},{"start":7556.576,"end":7572.314,"text":"對好 那你說用電大戶要鼓勵他自備發電請問這個大戶的規模有多大大概你們有沒有想過要多大的規模叫大戶沒關係 你們回去給我一個資料好 那你們有沒有建立這些用電大戶的分佈在台灣哪裡有沒有掌握"},{"start":7573.866,"end":7599.514,"text":"報告委員現在我們當然是說如果剛才提到的用Fieldsale那個固定式的表後我們是鼓勵所有的廠商都可以啦我知道啦但是用電大戶優先嘛那你們要對用電大戶有一個想像啊哪些叫用電大戶他在哪裡啊我們會希望一剛開始如果可以集中在這個工業區啊他們共同來做的話但是有什麼東西不見在工業區我問你算力中心"},{"start":7600.572,"end":7613.767,"text":"他會在哪裡算力中心就不一定在公司所以我才說你們要對用電大戶有個想像規模多大分佈在哪裡算力中心他用什麼方式來自備發電目前的備案是不是都是用燃料電池"},{"start":7615.612,"end":7640.745,"text":"現在啦 現在還是 他們還是請那個台電公司是啦 但是台電說你們用電那麼吃電那麼兇你們想想辦法嘛 他們都找誰都找燃料電池商嘛 是不是所以有 台灣已經有本土商用SOFC的示範廠嘛好 所以才問你說那你認為 經營部有沒有掌握未來有多少的用電大屋他會用燃料電池您可不可以提前掌握並提供報告給我"},{"start":7641.787,"end":7652.652,"text":"我們現在有做一些盤點不用現在報告你們有對不對會後給我一份好所以再下來問的一個是說好那麼燃料電池他是用什麼燃料"},{"start":7654.09,"end":7677.819,"text":"能量電池是用LNG的LNG或者混氫對不對或者是純粹氫也可以啦對啦 但是氫 純氫的話目前在市場競爭比較低啦好 那目前我國呢你看天然氣來了 大家都問我們董事長啊 LNG有沒有問題啊12天 13天比現在11天還要高一點點但是都掌握了 好目前我們天然氣的用途嘛董事長你看這對不對如果是用來發電的台電的買走了八成"},{"start":7679.64,"end":7705.098,"text":"如果是工業製造用的是用了15% 民生用的只有5%我特別寫工業用的是大管 民生用的是小管 是不是這樣子工業用的是不是台灣中有提供大致上的比例是這樣那小管呢 民生呢像星星瓦斯嘛 瓦斯公司嘛那請問如果建制燃料電池的自配發電我們需要用管線來配送的LNG比例會不會提高 不會只有兩成吧"},{"start":7706.751,"end":7731.202,"text":"會 會 會提高嘛好 那我們開始看了 好 來燃料電池要有天然氣的管線我上次就問過了因為它可以作為低碳的機載或者備援的電力目前的法規它比那個除能更好用土地限制 室內外都可以但是要怎樣 要天然氣的氣管來 你看一下目前天然氣的加入普及率我是指小管的那一種喔全國只有47%那加入普及率低"},{"start":7732.462,"end":7760.118,"text":"連小管都不夠了那你覺得要怎麼樣提高LNG的管線的佈設部長有沒有想法報告委員現在是有點雞生蛋單生雞類就是說好像有需求我們才鋪這個管那因為要不然它有成本的增加不能夠只有當需求來鋪管來我們告訴你台電的慘痛教訓台電過去呢它的發電端比較簡單你看都市計畫有道路就跟著走"},{"start":7760.998,"end":7782.429,"text":"發電的在蘇匯電的時候他根據這個都市計畫的道路去設置什麼配電所、變電所還有匱限對不對不管是商業區、住宅區或工廠都可以嘛但你知道發現現在台電怎麼辦你要知道台電啊台電現在都市計畫區裡面找不到變電所跟配電所啊一堆抗議的啊那你們現在天然氣管會不會遇到同樣的問題LNG管會不會遇到同樣的問題"},{"start":7783.269,"end":7812.157,"text":"有可能有可能所以怎麼辦所以如果未來台灣我們要求大電力用戶可能會配置燃料電池你必須跟負責都計的單位負責都計是哪個單位內政部嘛你們有沒有跟內政部討論過未來如果經濟部掌握的這些用電大戶他要設燃料電池我的NG管線是要提早的來配置劃定區域計算容量有個配電站這台電那是電力的部分但是燃料電池呢它是NG管線的啊NG管線誰在建中油嗎"},{"start":7813.527,"end":7831.362,"text":"是 原則上是誰在做原則上工業用戶的話是啊 我講的大天用電大戶都是工業為主啊那請問一下部長那算力中心是屬於工業用戶還是其他用戶還是商業用戶算力中心他問你會在哪裡他是工業用戶嗎他會在工業區嗎"},{"start":7832.748,"end":7846.895,"text":"AI的算力中心會在哪裡?它不一定在工業區NVIDIA的總部在哪裡?在NVIDIA總部在那個北市科北市科嘛對不對所以說啊所以說你們對於天然LNG天然管線的配置是要提早來掌握"},{"start":7847.81,"end":7873.828,"text":"好 那我們現在看了那麼怎麼樣提高用電大戶的燃料電池普及率管路要先行目前LNG大概15到20用電大戶當它過爐淘汰我們天然管線增加鋪設可以提高LNG的佈線我們LNG在住宅區或商業區不是在工業區裡面 鄰近都市的目前是用水電瓦斯的統一管線你有沒有設置建議未來增加這些天然管線的一個佈設"},{"start":7875.575,"end":7902.137,"text":"包委員你剛剛有垂詢問過嘛就是說我們先會做一些調查哪一個地方他是真的有興趣我們會從那邊先做所以你們開始在做調查了你們調查的對象是哪些人哪些部門簡單講一下包委員主要是在工業區裡面的一些用戶還是要你在工業區裡面嘛我就問你嘛未來的算力中心不見得在工業區嘛可不可以擴大一下部長"},{"start":7903.362,"end":7929.554,"text":"我們也會去調查那個算力中心他們的可能的趕快好不好趕快來中央董事長來LNG是燃料原料是哪一種就是天然氣天然氣它不是它也不是我們所謂的這個油料它也不是燃料它是燃料嗎是天然氣也可以作為燃料好它的天然氣也可以作為燃料也可以作為原料對不對中油本身主要是供應我們國內九成的油料嘛"},{"start":7930.413,"end":7955.779,"text":"是不是 目前八成 八成的油料嘛但是你們也肩負了包括以丙烯也占了四分之一嘛對 差不多 上次我跟你問的塑膠粒你也講了嘛所以台塑剛好相反 台塑幾乎都在供應塑膠原料那所以未來這個算力中心部長算力中心用電需求增加 需要燃料電池 LNG的需求增加那請問未來經濟部你怎麼看待LNG是要由誰來主導這個供應"},{"start":7961.021,"end":7981.56,"text":"應該是中油公司還是中油 很好 那我就要結論了我的訴求很簡單請經濟部掌握用電大物的分佈評估未來使用燃料電池的比例 可以嗎好 可以好 那這個評估給我一份那因應燃料電池請經濟部跟內政部建立一個溝通機制確保未來的LNG管線的配置可以滿足這些燃料電池用戶的需求 可以嗎"},{"start":7983.148,"end":8011.089,"text":"好的那因應燃料電池中油跟台塑重新檢討我們石化分工鏈的分工你說主要是要放在台灣中油好那就請你未來確保天然氣供應能滿足燃料電池發電需求請經濟部提供一個報告包括了用電大會的規模標準分佈圖評估未來產業石化燃料電池的比例以及與內政部建立溝通機制確保天然氣的管線管路的配置還有最好呢你最好我把台塑拿掉了請責成台灣中油檢視我們石化分工鏈未來LNG"},{"start":8012.21,"end":8040.357,"text":"我們臺灣眾如何因應 可以嗎可以那這份報告大概多久可以給本席一個月可以嗎好 謝謝好 謝謝主委謝謝宗教病委員 請先回座我們做個位置調整一下剛帶走了好 那接下來請邱昭偉政委 謝謝"},{"start":8049.602,"end":8058.79,"text":"好 謝謝主席 首先請經濟部龔部長還有中油方董事長好 請龔部長跟方董事長"},{"start":8065.346,"end":8090.7,"text":"這個部長我想台電、中油都負擔這個多元能源供應的這個角色多元能源就包括主要的是再生能源的佈局建設主要是中油那中油啊跟台電它的這個再生能源的分佈以中油來看大概是除了有太陽光電廠之外還有地熱地熱還有淺層還有深層還有火山型地熱"},{"start":8092.284,"end":8113.589,"text":"那到目前為止 從開始 中油投入這個地熱的布局 投入多少預算呢 黃董事長投入多少預算 到目前為止很抱歉 我沒有掌握這個數字 從投入到現在總共花多少錢這個有探勘事業部吧 是不是 那個"},{"start":8114.898,"end":8140.375,"text":"你不能連這個基本數字都不...這個算是基本數字啊今天是預算審查是不是時間可以暫停一下在土廠地那邊是8.4億你從頭開始投入地的有三種淺層跟深層跟火山型那你們目標值是多少按照這目標值你們投入了多少經費跟預算淺層的部分大概是10億"},{"start":8143.046,"end":8168.354,"text":"10億那發電量是多少?潛增部分目前就是在土產地熱有成果目前的話是大概2.4MW2.4MW好那生成的部分呢?生成的部分現在在進行中投入多少金費?預估會投7億7億這樣加起來是7億那你們的目標啊這個能源局給你們的目標是多少?"},{"start":8170.185,"end":8184.371,"text":"能源局給你們目標是多少2030年200MW2030年200MW那現在多少目前現在2.4中油的部分那中油部分你們分擔值是多少"},{"start":8200.78,"end":8226.191,"text":"目前是總共13個你們這樣也講不太清楚啦我覺得這個部長你再回去重視一下 董事長這個第一類你投入最起碼20億最起碼20億那到底成果在哪裡那未來你覺得這個台灣適不適合用第一類來發電如果你覺得適合你就要投入更多資本 但是要有更好的績效不要投資本沒有績效那個沒有辦法對國人交代另外這個"},{"start":8230.53,"end":8242.255,"text":"離岸封店的部分呢?你們報告裡面沒有寫啊?離岸封店?離岸封店我們就是在海勝風場的部分投入多少錢?總共15%的股權多少錢?這個要很清楚"},{"start":8254.705,"end":8258.908,"text":"40億對不對37億的樣子我只要看40億嘛好要490MW116年到117年要建置完成並發電現在目前期限在哪裡"},{"start":8270.523,"end":8294.305,"text":"目前就是海聖風場的部分我們已經資金投入了他開始逐步要去進行現場的工程八萬委員 海聖風場的部分的話現在正在做最後的專案請問說明的是哪個部門 能源署副署長謝謝八萬委員 那海聖風場現在正在做最後的專案融資近期在Q2以前會到位"},{"start":8295.186,"end":8302.692,"text":"施工了沒現在還沒有 正在做陸上相關的調查海上的調查你們預計是116年116年117年要建置完整並且發電那現在還在調研"},{"start":8310.222,"end":8333.677,"text":"他那個financial已經close了,就是資金已經到位了資金已經到位了,好但是你資金有成本啊那你越晚發電,越晚監視完成成本越貴嘛這不是小數目欸,40億,中央投入40億對你投入跟你的這個成果,績效你要有一定控管機制啊如果你當初決定跟海淀一起投這個海鮮風場"},{"start":8334.912,"end":8344.017,"text":"你就有這個目標有這個信心用國燕事業帶頭來協助聯安風電但是卻沒有到目前為止我看不出那個具體的成果"},{"start":8344.875,"end":8363.566,"text":"沒有啦 他這個就是他有步驟的當他這個financial close以後他就可以開始就做施作就是銀行端已經確認請問施作要多久那個副市長 施作要多久施作他們既有相關的經驗製作上我覺得應該是OK的啦因為之前來講的話沒那麼簡單齁"},{"start":8365.968,"end":8375.323,"text":"那個部長當時比較樂觀派 因為他們有經驗不簡單 你還有跟民間人合作耶 你是戰股百分之十五耶 還有台電耶"},{"start":8376.363,"end":8397.359,"text":"那你這個要企業好發展喔沒有五年來 副主席五年做起來嗎是 跟委員報告這個風場會在2028年完工併網所以現在做一些先期的準備跟國內的相關的製造業來做進一步的一些溝通包含這些所謂的海事傳播業者都要做溝通那現在在Q2完工"},{"start":8397.879,"end":8423.56,"text":"一般海事工程都不會那麼好做都會延宕很長時間 一延再延你說2028這是也超過你目標值這已經算是非常非常樂觀的估計而且你還有台電的資金加起來投入將近 我想將近100億左右部長100億如果這幾年沒有任何這個離岸風電的成果那100億丟入水底裡面一樣"},{"start":8424.921,"end":8450.336,"text":"他一旦建置完成以後發電可以到20或30年還是有很好的可以回收啦好那再請教部長那個你說中油的這個財務改善之前我也請教你嘛包括增資包括融資預算撥補預算撥補非超支在我們對不對你要看主計總數對現在正在彙整還正在彙整那融資的部分3000億沒有問題這銀行團會融資是的那利息能不能低一點"},{"start":8451.717,"end":8462.125,"text":"有講到這個部分所以這3000億是Secure是沒問題的那另外這個3500億分4年來融資第一年1687億然後其他3年慢慢來補到3500億對不對這個要經過立法院同意對不對那你過去台電增資的預算增資的這個案子來看你覺得會很樂觀嗎"},{"start":8476.034,"end":8503.775,"text":"台電增資應該都會過只有撥補的部分立法院對啦台電增資會過你那麼有信心台電增資會過之前增資大概都會過因為增資它是購買設備未來的部件等等一些情況那撥補的話是去彌補那個現在立法院沒有辦法理性討論所以任何理性的討論都這邊常常會被扭曲我也覺得這個完全需要"},{"start":8504.943,"end":8529.876,"text":"如果不撥補 如果不增資那中油這個財務會出現很大的問題對 我們會盡量說明盡量跟在野黨多做說明我當然在 執政黨一定是全力支持因為我知道這個財務困難的這個嚴重性那國營事業破產那個是何等之大事對不對 關於到國家安全那水公司有沒有財務問題水公司也是虧損你有沒有增資計畫"},{"start":8533.44,"end":8560.408,"text":"也有你都沒有講公務預算的部分就會有是啊我是說你這個增資有必要如果是要改善這些管路或者管線要汰換我覺得我們都會支持那這個增資要快然後這個增資的標的要清楚你增資要做什麼比方說高雄的管線是全台灣最老"},{"start":8564.029,"end":8580.665,"text":"高雄的管縣是全台灣最老所以常常會有停水的問題所以這個你如果有增資進來你有財務結構改善你多一點資源去做管縣老化管縣的汰換要汰換優先汰換高雄"},{"start":8582.12,"end":8606.928,"text":"是 謝謝 謝謝這個委員指導大概我們這一期的一個降低漏水力計畫有跟行政院這邊來爭取公務預算補助大概4.8億4.8億80億80億我們前期的計畫是800億對 我還是不太夠 就是說你要先針對需求強度最強的地方最弱的地方區區處的供水穩定性"},{"start":8608.226,"end":8627.52,"text":"在你想法裡面是不是全台灣這個最弱的區域我們一直在強化供水認証因為我每天都在區區處我每天都接收到這個停水或者斷水這些訊息所以大家綜合起來區區處是供水文件最弱的區域嘛最弱的區域有很多原因嘛"},{"start":8628.36,"end":8647.12,"text":"管線老舊的問題就是最大原因我們配合一些捷運的建設我知道捷運建設當然有時候難免會但是還是管線老舊的問題我希望說如果供應算能夠撥補行政通過80億那優先來改善七七數七七數也用到屏東去"},{"start":8649.642,"end":8657.827,"text":"也在屏東去 繼續講這個招委要遵守時間好 謝謝部長 謝謝董事長 謝謝好 謝謝邱昭偉部長 那個邱昭偉是不可以大聲聲啦油電水都要同時幫忙增資 謝謝來好 謝謝宗教兵委員消費資金省鄭天才委員"},{"start":8689.839,"end":8715.384,"text":"趙偉有請部長還有中油董事長中油方董事長 自來水公司李董事長好 部長好 董事長好好 我們看石油管理法第二條對石油的定義原油 濾清礦原油石油製品 再生油品石油煉製業都有定義"},{"start":8717.728,"end":8744.515,"text":"我們看臺灣中油股份有限公司的章程本公司所營事業如下大概從第六款以上第一款到第六款基本上都符合中油這兩個字中油這兩個字包含石油管理法相關的"},{"start":8745.885,"end":8756.865,"text":"再請問一下那個中油董事長這個地下水沼井業為什麼會你們也辦這個業務"},{"start":8759.278,"end":8782.183,"text":"可能跟我們在碳採部分有那個專警的能力有關係啦所以有時候可能民間在以前會委託我們來去做一個招水警這樣一個業務好這個它是依水立法第60條規定這個地下水招警業嚴格講起來是跟中油的"},{"start":8783.906,"end":8808.359,"text":"职长没有太大的关系没有直接的关系还有医疗器材零售业怎么办这个业务这个当然以前定的可能我想这个时间很久了这个是医疗器材管理法医疗器材管理法这个你们跨业跨行太严重了"},{"start":8809.762,"end":8836.711,"text":"還有這個加薪戰業第十第九款這個部分這個是能源管理法第六條的規定所以這個部分當然還有第十款是許可業務以外的這個請中油這邊提供會貨會貨整理一下剛才講的這個"},{"start":8840.388,"end":8866.9,"text":"6、7、8款6、7、8款這個辦的情形也許也許都沒有辦也沒有也不一定啦我不知道這個第6這個有啦加氣站是有就是加那個LBG啊這個加氣站沒有問題啊這個是食物管理法第17條的這個沒有問題好這個你們的報告裡面特別提到經濟部的報告也有提到"},{"start":8869.466,"end":8895.945,"text":"這個增加綠電相關太陽光電相關於自有暗藏地熱支援地熱支援這個部分一再的投入這個也不在你們剛才列舉的這個九款裡面看起來是第十款以外的所以這個部分怎麼會想到要去做這個"},{"start":8898.946,"end":8908.259,"text":"就是這個地熱發電也是就算綠地電的一種就是對於國內的自有能源能夠盡量的去使用去開發這樣子"},{"start":8911.501,"end":8925.866,"text":"目的當然了解現在就是說是不是該由中油來主管因為經濟部有能源署有其他的有台電有很多的有另外的部門當然裡面也提供一下這個相關的"},{"start":8929.388,"end":8956.523,"text":"這個投入的經費然後目前有沒有營收包括剛才的投入的經費然後有沒有營收是這畢竟是一個公司嘛也要講求這個部分嘛好投入跟營收都要必須考量好這裡面當然剛才跟地內一樣有關係好那就請中油董事長回奏"},{"start":8957.857,"end":8976.591,"text":"接下來就是自來水公司的部分這個水 石依住行 第一個是石 飲水就包含石所以飲用水管理法也訂得很清楚"},{"start":8977.817,"end":9003.901,"text":"飲用水的這個對人體的重要性這個是最重要的所以長年來都有這個從台灣省政府時代以前中友也是台灣省自由的水公司嘛對不對所以一直到今省之後中央也一直一直都很重視相關的經費的投入也都不斷的投入"},{"start":9004.893,"end":9031.955,"text":"所以改善無自來水地區的用水提高供水普及率很重要這幾年裡面的努力也有了已經普及率高達95.01%了但是還是有很多需要努力的地方我們看這個雖然我們投入的經費不斷的增加現在供水普及率95.01%"},{"start":9036.622,"end":9051.549,"text":"這個90%以上的已經有19個直轄市縣市都給肯定但是就是還是要繼續努力的就像今天你們的報告裡面有特別提到屏東增加了很多但是這個"},{"start":9054.434,"end":9074.442,"text":"百分之九十以下的尤其是百分之八十幾的依然的很多所以這個部分要去繼續努力上次有特別跟部長有提到可以依這個中央對直轄市及縣市政府的補助辦法的但書規定"},{"start":9075.763,"end":9101.828,"text":"只要是原住民租建設經費可以不受那個財力分級的限制所以可以維持原來的所以上次執行部長的時候部長有提到專簽給行政院請問一下簽上去了沒有回去查一下還是署長要答覆如果還沒有簽就趕快簽趕快報給行政院"},{"start":9102.771,"end":9129.884,"text":"就是說要維持維持台東縣政府的部分台東縣的部分維持因為現在預算正在審議嘛等預算通過我們馬上會跟地方政府因為這個主要是補助給地方政府對對對那個不是這個跟預算有沒有通過無關因為這個延續性的計畫是可以繼續可以繼續進行的部分所以這個部分還是趕快傳給簽給上司有答覆這個"},{"start":9131.164,"end":9155.687,"text":"部長你寫得很講得很清楚專簽給行政院所以這個部分趕快趕快簽上去另外最後因為趙委已經站起來了最後建築法第73條規定偏遠地區我們現在主要他偏遠地區的自然水一直要沒有辦法達成那個目標很多是因為地方政府也有一些規定"},{"start":9157.543,"end":9163.288,"text":"移頁了這個建築法第73條我也曾經開過協調會針對基企那邊的所以這個部分就是請經濟部 雖然已經有新聞給縣政府還要協調 署長"},{"start":9176.897,"end":9191.641,"text":"協調中油董事長協調讓他們能夠符合建築他不要定的那麼嚴格好不好能夠符合最起碼符合建築法的一個規定好謝謝好謝謝鄭建才委員請大家先回座"},{"start":9195.819,"end":9223.056,"text":"各位郭國文郭國文郭國文不在陳昌明陳昌明陳昌明不在羅文采羅文采羅文采不在林志明林志明林志明不在盧仙怡盧仙怡盧仙怡不在蘇星燕蘇星燕蘇星燕不在噢噢上門而出來得好來來得好不來得巧來 下一位知情請蔡議員婆婆小婆婆婆婆姐"},{"start":9230.53,"end":9257.827,"text":"來得早不如來得巧謝謝主席來我們是有請這個經濟部經濟部工部長蔡委員好部長齁部長今年齁這個看起來這個梅雨齁沒來啦啊這個水情齁大概是南北是兩樣情"},{"start":9259.621,"end":9286.66,"text":"八寶應該是沒什麼問題,但是南寶今年就吃了像烏山頭跟徵文水庫目前的這個水量兩個水庫都已經沒到兩成,阿鵝船頭跟徵文是連動的烏山頭是比較多一點主要還是在徵文,徵文水庫剩11%那剩下的像南潭、仁義潭水庫都差不多沒到10%所以這個水情非常的吃緊那目前這個"},{"start":9288.101,"end":9313.179,"text":"在農政單位也就是農水署也已經啟動這個調整公關那甚至有開始在節約用水的一些政策方向那我想請問部長如果這個水情持續吃緊的狀況那你們有怎樣的預作準備的因應測試嗎有 每天幾乎一陣子都在開會那大家沒以為"},{"start":9316.755,"end":9342.597,"text":"一般預估還是在五月下旬還是有機會可以來啦不過我們要先做最好準備啦萬一狀況不好的話最壞打算最好準備啦我請那個署長跟您說明一下報告委員有關於嘉義的一個用水一天現在水口出竅了九萬噸那現在水口都大概七八萬噸所以我們都是預估到六月底"},{"start":9343.417,"end":9363.496,"text":"還有預留一個月的一個供水 價格沒問題因為它的用水量少 大概是從這個跨區調度以後水口一天出到萬棟那現在就是台南一天用水量120萬噸的部分現在一起做就剩10天就灌完"},{"start":9364.376,"end":9393.533,"text":"一起做都存一千萬噸耗掉要還有1.1億噸的水我們一天大概耗掉120萬噸的水量也是一樣到六月底完我們預留一個月但是這個梅雨以五月底六月初進來為原則但是這個有不確定性所以我們都滾動檢討假設梅雨沒進來就是空梅我們都會採取紀律部的管控措施會來調度因應"},{"start":9394.053,"end":9416.031,"text":"好,所以這個水情當然目前看起來真的是掌握度我們要不然就確認了,我們看起來現在水口的水就是已經救了所以現在就是,如果我們把它抓到六月底當作我們預留的一個月,那但是七月後可能就是要靠風胎了,有風胎沒有,沒有風胎進來,可能就會吃來了"},{"start":9419.634,"end":9437.488,"text":"我們都會做滾動檢討,真的有問題我們會就是用比較快速來因應,沒有問題我現在要強調,因為現在就是氣候變遷,這個水的狀況你看就差很多,去年的水就很多,今年就忽然間差一噸而已"},{"start":9438.909,"end":9461.208,"text":"水礦就變得這麼多所以我們有很多事實上都是跨時代的建設包括把北幹線跟左幹線把它連起來這個就可以做像現在水庫不足的時候被安挖資源這個建設很重要那包括我們在南化跟增溫水庫的珍珠串計畫這個都在我們前瞻建設事實上"},{"start":9462.309,"end":9477.154,"text":"有很大的這個改善這個水情的一個狀況是 這個很重要因為我們珍武南化聯合團去年完成以後我們今年就有辦法把珍武水庫 烏山頭水庫跟南化水庫所以剛剛你報告的水量"},{"start":9477.774,"end":9500.669,"text":"是三個合併計算 三個合併計算 已經可以串在一起了我們現在串在一起了 所以這個水庫是可以合併計算的而且現在高雄的地方都不一定有時是在婚姻沙灘 有時在嘉義 有時在高雄所以這一個串起來就很重要但是我覺得我們水利署還是要在一些更前瞻的部署"},{"start":9501.529,"end":9517.116,"text":"就比方說我們要再去找怎麼去開發新的一些水源就比方嘉義我們有一些河川河川如果我們能夠創造出一些就是平常的一個蓄水功能"},{"start":9518.096,"end":9531.583,"text":"那等到需要的時候這個水也是可以當作臨時的備用水那當然河川的水它可能就不是我們說的比較適合可以用來民生用水的但是在工業用水它就可以發揮很大的功能這個我有在規劃像那個委員了解從赤南溪我們就打算用來做利用還有就是現在正在推動的"},{"start":9541.669,"end":9550.182,"text":"這個海水氮化廠都有在評估海水氮化廠這個是一個一個可以讓工業用因為它的畢竟它的單價比較高嘛第二個就是剛才說的次蘭溪赤蘭溪跟八江溪"},{"start":9557.152,"end":9569.984,"text":"事實上它是可以做一些蓄水的空間這個空間如果把它保留起來或是稍後需要去吃水這就可以公約用水口的水就可以來給民生給農用我想這個整個大方向沒有錯我會製造委員的意見來處理這部分可能就再持續"},{"start":9579.432,"end":9605.181,"text":"那第二個想要請教的是自來水公司來 請自來水公司來 自來水這邊那事實上我還是想要持續關心我們整個嘉義在山區這個管線的推動就是說我們希望說山區普遍都有一個感受因為它們都是水質它們都是水源地啦水源地水源地不就是它們自來水的結構就是比較壞"},{"start":9610.024,"end":9628.423,"text":"所以事實上像我之前在跟董事長在反映在我們嘉義的梅山地區甚至在大埔這個地方都希望這個自來水的狀況可以在持續來改善那董事長我想聽一下說您這樣有辦法持續來改善我們整個山區的自來水狀況嗎"},{"start":9630.585,"end":9646.513,"text":"謝謝委員的關心對加一線這些自來水還沒裝設自來水的地區的一個關心那其實加一線整個普及率現在是91.75還是在全省裡面算是比較偏低了"},{"start":9647.253,"end":9670.093,"text":"主要的這些比較低的鄉鎮都是在比較山區山窟窮 瓦多瓦多玫瑰山 大坡 巴黎山 三甲這個普及率都比較低那因為這些的租屋當然是很零散 他們都會叫三建水來用不然他們就自己成立檢疫自來水管理委員會自己在管理 不過"},{"start":9671.474,"end":9696.803,"text":"這個我們也跟水利署這邊我們積極跟署裡面這邊來爭取一些5區的無災水地區的改善計畫來協助不過有很多區域因為在山區他就是要增加一些加壓設備也需要一些配水池的土地這個都要地方這邊來協助這些用地取得我們就能夠去爭取經費去跟他輔設這些的供水設施"},{"start":9698.484,"end":9716.877,"text":"還是要祝福他們自己第一他們要自己要放棄這些自己的減水的設施啦第二就是說那個用戶要接管的醫院還是要高一點那這樣評比才能夠進到我們的這個這該溝通的我們地方溝通啦 不然我覺得說"},{"start":9718.318,"end":9746.712,"text":"一旦齁這個地方已經有高度的共識希望可以來達成接管那自災水公司的導安協助這個才是最重要的好不好是我們會來努力好那就麻煩齁謝謝好謝謝這個蔡議員精彩的資訊來得來得早不如來得巧來請先回座齁下位林建啟林建啟林建啟不在下位資訊請議員助言"},{"start":9767.194,"end":9770.621,"text":"麻煩請經營部長 謝謝中友也順便 謝謝 經營部副部長中友來位董事長來 方董事長"},{"start":9777.332,"end":9805.771,"text":"葉委好部長好還有董事長好我們都知道因為這個不管是國際的環境啊或者是能源的成本的上漲都造成現在台電中油的經營非常的辛苦因為成本都上升了但是這兩天大家不能接受就是台電居然換Logo那我想部長你可能會認為說那個Logo只花了96萬沒有多少錢因為我有看到台電好像也有這樣子說錢不多"},{"start":9806.511,"end":9831.163,"text":"但是Logo之外不管是要換招牌或是換很多東西其實還有額外成本但其實大家最關心的是一件事情就是說台電已經在虧損的情況之下做這個事情是有必要嗎其實我看到這兩天大家國人是非常質疑這件事情那更不要講後來設計出來的東西見仁見智啦我看到有一個媒體做的調查大概百分之八十幾是認為說應該要把那個Logo新的把它換成舊的"},{"start":9832.003,"end":9850.379,"text":"所以代表說台電在虧損情況之下做了這件事情但國人並不買單嘛你還浪費了民脂民膏那台電現在有很多說法大家聽不下去因為他說什麼像那些蘋果啊或者是Google啊這些公司通通都有年輕化可是問題是第一個"},{"start":9851.3,"end":9872.769,"text":"台電基本上大家在乎他的不是什麼年輕化不年輕化大家在乎的是把電穩定的供應不要常跳電不要缺電然後所以做這個事情真的不知道為什麼啦我想先問一下部長你對於台電在這個時間點換logo您的態度是什麼就像您剛才提到就是說經濟部隊"},{"start":9874.264,"end":9893.324,"text":"台電公司最重要的是政策指導怎麼樣穩定供電那個是我們最重要的那其他部分他全職他也沒有報到院裡面來基本上這個事情我們就尊重他你尊重他那你後來看到網路就民眾於情這樣子沸騰覺得他做一件不應該做的事情那部長的態度是什麼尊重還是"},{"start":9894.245,"end":9922.862,"text":"我想這個還是依照他的權責辦理當然是他的權責但是做對或不對在這個時間點做這種事情因為台電也虧損了大概3500億到4500億之前還要跟立法院要錢所以台電公司經過總是事情有一個過程我想這個過程他應該會了解說將來要怎麼做更好我想應該會有一些那我問忠祐董事長因為說據說好像忠祐也要換LOGO是不是"},{"start":9924.082,"end":9933.382,"text":"目前沒有這個打算 雖然有做了一個本來有這個打算嗎是在做一個研究案研究要換logo原因是什麼 為什麼綜合媒體想要換logo"},{"start":9936.221,"end":9954.899,"text":"因為就是所謂淨零碳排 能源轉型等等那麼對於企業識別體系來講是不是要因應淨零碳排 世界能源轉型所以要換一個比較能夠辨識出中油在做淨零碳排的這樣一個Local當時出發點是大概變了多少錢 要組 門票要組標案是98萬也是98萬 誰得標就是LINE什麼"},{"start":9961.563,"end":9977.623,"text":"聶永禎嘛就是跟台電同一個設計師嘛對對對怎麼那麼巧啊價錢差不多然後都同一個人得標是這是經過公開評選當然是公開評選啦但是巧到讓人家覺得很離奇嘛那所以現在這個標案都已經發包了所以你現在是暫緩是不是"},{"start":9979.093,"end":10002.142,"text":"已經有研究成果了然後所以對那公司他已經設計出來了設計出來了但是你沒有要換對嗎那一樣的意思嘛只是你們已經設計出來只是說你看台電被罵所以就先不要做而已啊不是不是不是不是那你董事長你現在的做法其實就打臉台電嘛因為我剛剛看你的說法是說因為中油現在也虧損啦所以雖然設計出來了所以我們Logo就先不換"},{"start":10003.182,"end":10030.543,"text":"那台電為什麼虧損然後他LOGO設計出來他還是要換阿中友就那麼聰明不是跟委員報告不是這樣子那怎麼樣112年就是設計出來以後呢113年公司決定那麼公司虧損不急的要去做這件事情啦同時這個實施以後要花很多的費用另外也要取得公司裡面所有同仁的一個認同所以呢是暫緩實施是嗎 對嘛所以部長剛剛有聽到那個中友董事長這樣講齁"},{"start":10031.764,"end":10054.125,"text":"部長可不可以轉達給台電因為中油董事長說他其實一兩年前就已經設計好了但是中油在虧損然後要取得裡面的認同所以他們就先暫緩先不改台電不管就先幹再講才引起這個所以看得出來對於輿情的掌握跟民心中油好像比台電好很多部長你可不可以轉達一下因為台電今天沒來嘛"},{"start":10055.126,"end":10083.039,"text":"有來嗎台電有我想每一個公司都有他的這個權責啦當然每個公司有權責我們知道我們現在討論他做的對或不對嘛好不好 這個因為來不及部長轉達一下台電啦謝謝來 請回座還有三位委員三位委員 三位委員不在來 下一位請圖宣局委員"},{"start":10092.878,"end":10099.018,"text":"好 謝謝主席那請我們工部長還有我們中油方董事長中油公司方董事長"},{"start":10103.457,"end":10130.174,"text":"好 部長那我在總質詢的時候有提過針對我們三接位推方案調整預算那時候是否適用文化藝術講注及促進條例那時候當然院長跟部長也都同意也都希望能夠依法來編列那這部分文化部那時候有發文給中油明確指出這個案子就是依我們文化藝術講注及促進條例第15條第一項的規定編列"},{"start":10132.415,"end":10134.54,"text":"相關的公共藝術設置經費那這部分應該沒有問題吧"},{"start":10139.793,"end":10164.814,"text":"好 那金董事長這個已經文化部有函付了所以公司這邊也做了計畫的修正那麼現在在成合當中對 那正常來講 據我們了解那中午編列預算都是要提早兩年的10月到11月嘛像我們如果2028的話就是今年10月11月就要去編列然後後來來送交"},{"start":10165.655,"end":10176.297,"text":"明年送交經濟部給行政院核定這樣沒有錯吧我想這是一個修正計畫啦它的核定的程序會比較快可以比較快嘛所以那就重點那所以我們"},{"start":10177.628,"end":10196.462,"text":"今年一定會把這個公共藝術經費編入吧我覺得應該是可以的對 因為這個一定要拜託部長跟董事長因為這筆經費其實中游來講之前錯誤的解讀一直沿用舊法後來我們才拜託文化部然後"},{"start":10197.643,"end":10209.172,"text":"經過三次協調會之後文化部確認這個要用新法而且這是法定義務編列的經費那居然拖了好幾年希望能夠盡快來編列針對這筆經費啊沒有問題吧好 謝謝喔那我再請問一下我們"},{"start":10216.843,"end":10228.341,"text":"我們當初三接的建制是不是因應非核家園以及我們五時三時二時燃氣燃煤跟再生能源的發電配比"},{"start":10230.236,"end":10256.909,"text":"天然氣主要是要取代燃煤非核比較沒有關係但是我們當初就是因為我們新的能源配比我們那時候能源白皮書50 30 20那就是因為我們當然因為以前早期有核能後來沒有因為非核加油我們才有50 30 20的能源配比還是要趕快把那個燃煤的部分下降下來"},{"start":10257.369,"end":10274.248,"text":"所以要提高燃氣提高燃氣也是因為沒有用核能所以整個能源配比的改變因為核能當初這個2011年的時候決定說不研議那當然就是就調整能源政策嘛"},{"start":10275.536,"end":10301.984,"text":"對 所以我們當然我們國家發展的目標它依序當然是依我們能源政策的方向還有發電供給配比然後後來才有這個三接二期工程那我們現在因為當初我們三接在推動的時候我相信董事長總經理也知道三接我們後來去地方開協調會在針對要增加這除氣槽的部分其實地方民眾"},{"start":10302.884,"end":10313.137,"text":"反彈是非常非常的劇烈啦因為要再增加六座的儲氣場所以我們現在也看到總統跟行政院長也都認為"},{"start":10314.755,"end":10338.28,"text":"不管是新的技術或舊的技術新的能源技術或者重啟核二核三也希望說那等於說我們的能源政策看起來是有所轉變所以我們希望有這個契機是針對這部分我們說非核家園已經轉彎三接的建制前提因為已經改變"},{"start":10339.44,"end":10356.587,"text":"之前是非核嘛 那現在有可能重啟核能是不是我們的二期工程有機會再重新檢討沒有必要讓我們政府跟民間有那麼大的衝擊所以這部分希望反映給部長跟董事長能夠了解是不是有機會再來檢討一下"},{"start":10358.459,"end":10379.659,"text":"是 報告委員 因為用電量還是增加 尤其是包括您桃園 事實上很多的這些建設也要增加 聽說這個半導體業又要進到桃園去然後有些算力中心也要在桃園建置 所以就是說然後我們又要增加這個天然氣的這個韌性希望從這個11天的這個"},{"start":10383.11,"end":10405.892,"text":"時間啊變成14天他的準備量可以增加那這個都需要這個除去潮的增加對因為其實但是我們會做最安全最好的這個方式那我也是在這邊建議啦因為因為我們是反映民情讓部長跟董事長知道我相信我們董事長跟總經理對地方"},{"start":10406.593,"end":10430.709,"text":"都非常的了解像開這個地方說明會其實整個地方的反彈是非常大所以我希望藉由有這個新的能源政策有機會把這個三接二期再調整一下如果有機會把這個除氣槽在新增的部分能夠不做的話我們去發展別的能源政策而且能夠讓地方更加的和諧希望藉這個機會"},{"start":10432.05,"end":10457.951,"text":"就反映給部長跟董事長希望為我們地方的民眾來請命希望有機會來調整新的除氣槽如果能夠不蓋的話盡量不蓋 以免造成地方的恐慌變成政府跟民眾之間太大的衝突了解那請董事長跟部長多幫忙 謝謝好 謝謝請先回座還有子儀這邊做一些宣告"},{"start":10460.351,"end":10486.338,"text":"何新淳何新淳何新淳何新淳不在主席在面作一個宣告登記發言委員除不在行之外 其余均已發言無異我們今天詢答結束有委員何新淳 張家俊 徐新穎 楊瓊英 陳昌明所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報有關書面質詢及未及答覆部分請相關單位一週之內以書面答覆並複製本位如果有委員另要求期限者 從其所定"},{"start":10487.318,"end":10509.865,"text":"各位委員針對預算案如果有相關提案請於5月18號星期一的下午5點之前送經濟委員會辦公室以利後續會診預時而就不再收案好今天討論事項所列的議案我們今天詢答結束令定期繼續進行審查大家辛苦了謝謝大家謝謝三位"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}