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長好請卓院長備詢委員好"},{"start":1682.679,"end":1697.626,"text":"院長在進入質詢之前我想先就昨天我看到在我們立法院未還委員會我們石崇良部長在備詢的時候他講到一句話我相當不認同他在回答委員質詢有關護病餅的問題"},{"start":1700.387,"end":1725.455,"text":"他說如果跳票的話就再投給賴清德他就一定會落實首先呢我相信賴清德總統本人一定不會說這樣的話互併比是我們向來長期在努力的事情既然這是我們重視的事我們就努力把它達成第二點我認為我們官員在立法院備詢的時候這個專業的態度拿出來市會安部長是非常專業的"},{"start":1726.946,"end":1752.623,"text":"既然有專業那就不要在被尋的時候耍嘴皮好好的來仔細的向委員來說明我想社會大家會理解所以我想昨天石河亮部長這個絕對是失言那我要拜託院長希望我們行政院的閣員在立法院被尋的時候我們可以有耐心的而且秉持專業的好好的"},{"start":1753.363,"end":1778.434,"text":"來向委員也向國人來說明政策這點我想非常的重要那第二點是上個禮拜在我們教委會發生了一件事就當我們在這個要詢答文化部的業務報告的時候國民黨的立委竟然把公視的董事長胡元輝董事長把他趕出委員會"},{"start":1780.458,"end":1797.015,"text":"那麼其實公視的董事會產生的過程當中目前還在難產國民黨是一再的踐踏公視那麼當中現在國民黨甚至提出來他們要求公視的董事會竟然要求要用政黨協商來產生"},{"start":1799.332,"end":1816.049,"text":"公視公共媒體最重要的就是獨立性這是民間長期好不容易努力的成果所以我個人是絕對反對用政黨協商來決定公視的董事會這簡直是把政治的手伸進了獨立的媒體"},{"start":1817.492,"end":1841.579,"text":"我想要請教一下 院長 你能接受嗎用政黨協商來產生公視董事會是 謝謝吳委員的提醒公視它本來就是一個獨立的文化機構我們必須維護它的獨立性因此它設了一個審查委員它的審查委員就是由政黨來推薦這個已經是在大院行使同意權之前的一道關卡"},{"start":1842.369,"end":1865.78,"text":"那現在又一定要在推薦名單之前要讓文化部採行政黨的比例或推薦那雙重關卡那並不足以證明說這有助於所謂的獨立性的一個中立機關的文化傳播機關所以我們希望立法院所推薦的八名審查委員因故辭去"},{"start":1866.4,"end":1892.646,"text":"以乃至於現在的情緒無法進行希望立法院國民黨黨團能夠再行推薦八名的審查委員那這樣的話他審查委一開就可以把這些被推薦的人做資格的審查再交給大院來做同意權的行使這才是正道我們現有已經有審查機制了所以我要拜託這個部長也要拜託部長跟院長我們一定要去捍衛公視媒體的獨立性這一點很重要"},{"start":1893.246,"end":1921.72,"text":"但在沒有完成之前公視裡面的整個行政業務還是要有人來主持所以我們依照相關的這個法律現在這個財團法人法胡元輝董事長他必須客尊職守他的這個職務這個我想部長也是同樣的態度好那接下來呢也是文化部我們很重視院長你也很重視的就是轉型正義這個這個今年年初因為這個林宅血案"},{"start":1923.206,"end":1949.301,"text":"因為一部電影在社會上重新引起社會的關注那很多的民眾發現說原來我們對自己國家我們自己這塊土地的過去的歷史所發生的事情原來我們有這麼多的不了解有時候也因為不認識不理解而失去了同理也沒有機會去尊重所以我們發現到讓國人認識歷史是非常重要的"},{"start":1950.086,"end":1973.729,"text":"那麼上個月我也跟我們部長還有賴清德總統也出席了藝光教會因為這個是我們第一處文化部據轉型正義意涵的長旨的揭牌當天總統他有提到我覺得非常重要他說保存歷史現場是我們國家勇敢面對歷史記住傷痛並且深化民主的時刻"},{"start":1975.526,"end":1997.439,"text":"那麼我們現在呢有行政院已經頒布的是42處的不義遺址這些活化的工作就很重要因為我們其實是在跟時間賽跑那我檢視了一下因為我們行政院其實有轉型聲音匯報除了文化部以外國發會內政部、法國部、教育部、衛福部也都在這個匯報當中"},{"start":1998.9,"end":2026.559,"text":"跨部會的協作其實是我們活化這些場址的關鍵那麼我們行政院去年也提出了不移植保存的行動策略其中你們就有七種方式嘛那各個場館你們任選至少必帶兩項那我們來看了一下到底做了幾項現在在42處當中連最基本的只是請他們設標示只是請自己設一個標示牌說這裡是不移植"},{"start":2028.719,"end":2044.764,"text":"42處現在有設的只有19處報告院長我差會一半都還沒有設在這個一半當中就是23處其中有6處是我們中央部會全管的我們自己有6處中央部會的還沒設這包含了國防部、法務部跟交通部"},{"start":2045.97,"end":2059.284,"text":"那麼台北市政府全管的在這42處當中也佔了很多像例如說我選區台北市在六張里的戒嚴時期受難者沐元他管理單位是台北市政府殯葬處"},{"start":2063.144,"end":2084.096,"text":"他在講說他為什麼沒有辦法做導覽活動他說因為他的預算不足但其實我們人權管是有相關的計畫可以補助的但是政府也沒有來申請我要講的是說我們現在辦法都出來了但是很多機關我看起來都相當的消極但是我們自己中央部會"},{"start":2086.345,"end":2107.347,"text":"要先帶頭示範起來啊 院長我們的態度很重要我們現在如果連我們自己中央部會當中很多的部會也給你消極啊我連一個告示牌都還沒有辦法設那我們要怎麼樣去輔導地方政府再來不包括 現在42處是已經公告的我們文化部還有潛在的不義遺址嘛"},{"start":2109.06,"end":2128.787,"text":"潛在的不移植當中列管的還有民間的我們現在公告這些都是工有工產的我們政府部門拜託一定要帶頭先示範起來好不好這個你們已經有行動策略頒布出來了這個院長能不能夠拜託你幫忙然後也請文化部你們要去加強部會之間橫向的溝通協調啊"},{"start":2130.629,"end":2149.796,"text":"只是設一個告示牌有那麼難嗎現在請部長再答覆不過這不翼遺址現在都是示範點因為他的這個法制化還沒有完成另外對不翼遺址的定義你像剛剛委員所說的翼光教會就不被相關的認為他是不翼遺址他只是一個具有歷史意涵的建築物"},{"start":2150.376,"end":2165.067,"text":"所以他還有一些定義上的問題但是已經被認定的這些示範點我們應該在法治化完備之後加速來讓他呈現歷史現場這個再請部長來說明一下因為那個在立法院我們已經送進一個不予以此條例"},{"start":2165.667,"end":2188.532,"text":"那它一直在被沒有辦法通過的原因就是大家對不育椅子的定義有不同的看法所以在那個條例沒有通過之前我們才會有具有轉型正義意涵的這個這個場域有民間來申請所以我們最近做的一貫交會就是用這個申請辦法來做接著又有第二個案子也來了"},{"start":2189.093,"end":2214.368,"text":"那但是對於潛在的不義遺址我們的調查沒有停止過我希望我們能夠更積極的透過這個對民眾來解釋不義遺址他的設立不是一個要挑起過去的對立像我昨天就跟一個來自捷克做人權影展的一個朋友在聊在東歐所有共產國家集權被推翻以後大家都集體想要"},{"start":2215.618,"end":2234.638,"text":"記下那個所有曾經有過的那個歷史並不是為了要鬥爭過去而是要不要忘記過去曾經有過的獨裁跟威權它不是一個鬥爭而是一個理解那這個在我們社會我覺得一定要有這個共識那我們會非常努力的用各種方式去向大眾來解釋"},{"start":2235.287,"end":2257.112,"text":"沒有錯其實我們看到我們轉型正義的相關調查工作是做得非常的努力因為很多的這些受難者或他們的家屬過去訪談工作我們都在跟時間賽跑所以現在好不容易累積一定的成果在這些場館的限制我們希望你們文化部自己頒布的保存的策略行動我們要有告示牌我們要有導覽活動"},{"start":2258.052,"end":2273.602,"text":"我們要有教育紀念相關推廣活動這個要拜託部長你們要再多加努力那如果是橫向部會之間的聯繫要加強溝通地方政府我們加強輔導可不可以請你們繼續的積極加強會 這部分我們一定會努力"},{"start":2274.158,"end":2293.055,"text":"好那再來呢是就院長你也很關心的是你去年出席觀光博覽會有提到說我們要擴大觀光這是我們國家泛展的重要方向其中就包括了演唱會還有國際體育賽事等等的所以文化觀光運動觀光我也很認同我覺得非常的重要"},{"start":2293.715,"end":2311.416,"text":"那麼這個我在委員會的時候上週也質詢過部長因為我們今年一個非常重要的計畫文化部頒布了百大文化基地院長也很重視在院會的時候院長也採視了跨部會包括交通部農業部環境部教育部都要進來大家共同來協作"},{"start":2312.757,"end":2327.269,"text":"那這個百大文化基地呢我的選區很幸運我們也入選了三個基地像有古嶺街小劇場紀州安文學森林萬座小劇場等等那麼文化部除了基地之外你們現在的地方政府也請他們盤點了83條的這個文化的路線嘛"},{"start":2330.231,"end":2340.259,"text":"好 現在有路線然後文化部下一步也希望要去做百大基地旗艦觀光景點我們希望這些文化基地也能夠來帶動觀光的推廣"},{"start":2344.042,"end":2367.744,"text":"那麼我就詢問了文化部說那目前跟觀光署有沒有相關的計畫來合作呢看起來目前觀光署提出的是他們有這個台灣好行台灣台灣好行跟台灣觀光巴士這兩項措施但是院長其實這兩個政策都是本來就有的這甚至不是舊瓶裝新酒就舊瓶裝舊酒"},{"start":2369.125,"end":2388.186,"text":"而且以台灣好行台灣觀八來講甚至路線沒有走進台北市所以我認為這樣是不夠如果說未來我們這百大文化基地我們要來推薦成為旗艦的觀光景點院長你覺得我們在這個部會之間觀光署是不是可以來做更多的協助呢"},{"start":2389.108,"end":2404.573,"text":"剛剛瑋瑜有提到觀光巴士還包括觀光腳踏這個部分我們是在原來的計畫當中把它涵蓋率更加的鋪滿所以現在已經達到百分之九十幾以上了大約偏鄉地區都有這個部分那現在行政院還有一個政觀支"},{"start":2405.533,"end":2431.194,"text":"諮詢委員會網絡業界還有各個學者還有我們部門各部會推動觀光的主要的工作那這個就是形成一個跨部會的一個組織讓它能夠推動觀光那觀光署也推動未來5年將近500億的預算會推動全國的觀光目前已經在計畫中的就是大家常聽到的北回之巔跟微笑南灣那現在我們還會繼續把"},{"start":2432.455,"end":2452.026,"text":"北部的部分把它加進去因為北回之巔是在北回歸線微校南灣是在高雄台東屏東這一部分那我們會加上北海岸的那我們再加上原來的花蓮再加上中部現在的觀光區會形成全國的一個觀光網那在今年的行政院推出的13項國家戰略產業當中造園觀光產業已經列為當中的一項我們當然會全力來推動"},{"start":2457.674,"end":2473.747,"text":"沒錯 這個我們交通部部長也宣布了嘛我們是預計2030年我們目標就是我們觀光產值要達到破兆所以院長您剛剛說的是我們有行政院觀光產業政經諮詢會這也是今天我要拜託院長的"},{"start":2474.508,"end":2492.298,"text":"因為文化觀光演唱會經濟音樂節經濟這是文化部也是今年的信心預算信心計畫然後剛剛講到的運動觀光運動部今年也有一個新的計畫就是台灣品牌賽事這個編了八億目標也是我們要促進運動的觀光"},{"start":2494.199,"end":2513.913,"text":"那麼所以這一點就是我今天特別想要拜託院長的因為我覺得這兩個對台灣來講在這個階段都非常的重要像演唱會經濟其實地方已經開始在發展了那如果我們可以把這個配套的觀光再加進來我相信一定可以帶動效益而台灣的運動的風氣也是越來越興盛"},{"start":2515.715,"end":2534.012,"text":"所以說現在行政院觀光產業振興諮詢會今天我要拜託院長的就是說我們能夠把這個文化觀光演唱會經濟跟運動觀光也放進到這個諮詢會議下一次會議的討論當中我們就是一年兩次會我們會把觀光相關的標報包括國際會議"},{"start":2536.305,"end":2563.541,"text":"國際的大型展覽會展經濟國際會一個會展經濟還有就是大型的演唱會的經濟另外就是運動部李部長在推動的國際賽事的這個列到光光裡面那關於這個運動台灣品牌運動的部分前陣子有一些波折那我們需要預算來順利審查之後運動部就能全數的來推動這個我們都非常支持那也非常的期待那個部長請回"},{"start":2564.542,"end":2586.09,"text":"那我最後要跟院長要拜託的是是一年前我們在這裡也討論到淡水河的治理當時院長你也表達了這一個城市的這一條河岸其實照映的歷史跟未來非常的重要那麼最近呢我跟沈伯陽委員也在立法院舉辦了淡水河的公民座談現在我們行政院有"},{"start":2610.506,"end":2617.809,"text":"謝謝吳委員 謝謝左院長"},{"start":2622.338,"end":2649.173,"text":"下一位請許智傑委員質詢法院會現在在議場二樓旁聽起的是民傳大學的同學我們在此歡迎他們到立法院來謝謝主席 各位院長 各位部長大家好院長先休息一下 我們先請教育部長"},{"start":2650.615,"end":2655.36,"text":"院長您就聽責啦等一下再問院長意見教育部長貝雪委員好部長好"},{"start":2670.748,"end":2699.92,"text":"我想部長也是非常有理想的部長所以到教育部來我們也希望說台灣到底要怎麼去推動我們的教育我現在用一個比較簡單的概念叫做科技 經濟 美麗 歡喜科技 經濟就是包括整個台灣的進步以經濟來講其實台灣現在也不錯但是其實貧富差距還是蠻懸殊的然後生活沒有那麼美麗"},{"start":2700.902,"end":2729.321,"text":"然後呢 要怎麼讓人開心我想說一個簡單的故事有一個小孩子他很喜歡跑步 很喜歡賽跑他就是 成功就是贏那這個小孩子呢 他就找兩個對手然後就比賽了之後 他贏了 他就很高興一堆觀眾在旁邊看也看得非常的高興然後呢 他又找另外一組比他又比了 他又贏了觀眾都給他歡呼 他也覺得很pride 很驕傲"},{"start":2730.552,"end":2753.88,"text":"但是第三組另外有一個老人他就來了他說來我給你一組新的對手一個就是盲人一個是老婦人他就告訴他說來你們再比一次他說這怎麼比啊結果老人就告訴他你就比啊比了之後這個小孩子也贏了跑到終點了結果發現那兩個人都沒動"},{"start":2758.493,"end":2782.53,"text":"然後觀眾本來歡呼的沒有人歡呼後來那個小孩子問老人說為什麼那個老人就告訴他你再比一次這一次我希望你們三個人一起到達終點結果這個小孩子想一想他就站在這兩個人的中間一手拉著一個人三個人慢慢慢慢走到了終點結果歡聲雷動"},{"start":2785.916,"end":2810.294,"text":"他就問老人說 請教一下他們到底是在為誰抬手 為誰喝彩這個老人告訴他說 其實這一場比賽你學到的比以前的比賽都還要多以前你就是贏了 你就很爽了那這一場比賽呢 你是幫助兩個弱者一起到達終點"},{"start":2812.68,"end":2840.568,"text":"所以他那句話他叫什麼他就說It's not important if you win是不是贏不是最重要的It's important how you run this race最重要的是你如何去跑這場比賽This race is called life這場比賽叫做人生我想這一步最重要的就是說我除了國家要進步我想讓人民活得更快樂更幸福"},{"start":2841.765,"end":2868.678,"text":"這才是人生所以我今天質詢的比較簡單的我有兩個重點第一個是AI教育AI教育我簡單帶過就是說我們看芬蘭的教育它是目前全球性物指數最高的國家那它的AI教育從幼稚園做起融入他的生活然後日本跟韓國它這裡的特色它是補助企業"},{"start":2869.915,"end":2895.001,"text":"跟學校合作推動AI培訓我想部長很清楚我們好不容易推動一個國家產學大使獎企業對學校的產學合作有具體的貢獻我們要給這樣子的學校跟教授頒獎所以這個部分就是我們希望學校跟企業可以充分的合作第三個主題就是品德教育"},{"start":2896.329,"end":2925.021,"text":"品德教育要如何跟前面的芬蘭的幼稚園教育一樣融入生活其實融入生活才是最重要的我想這個部分值得我們去深思那芬蘭的教育我簡單跟大家報告一下就是院長跟部長報告一下就是說芬蘭其實它的特色就是我說的從幼稚園開始而且他們在第二個2017這個項目其實他們還有那個包括四讀"},{"start":2926.189,"end":2955.627,"text":"我從小就讓你看到真假圖片是什麼你又會分辨從小就讓他們去分辨再來他們有個比較特別的就是他們有分組分組教學在目前台灣的教育制度其實有但是不多大部分還是停留在課堂教學這個分組事實上它有合作跟互動我想這個部分除了學習基本的AI智能之外事實上人跟人的互動融入生活其實這是一個很重要的項目"},{"start":2958.018,"end":2985.88,"text":"那還有他們2024就有課綱這個我們以後再慢慢的跟部長報告南韓呢他這個投資呢他在17處設立AI教育資源中心這個我上一次也跟部長提過就是AI人才教育基地培訓基地這個是不是有一個整體的單位在做這樣子的思考那目前台灣有的包括"},{"start":2990.214,"end":3017.584,"text":"智慧教育園區台中教育大學包括陽明教大6G AI示範基地包括智慧製造等等我們高雄目前也清白市長也跟陽明教大跟清大我們也合作一個校際研教園區這個部分也是這樣子的一個概念我是覺得就是說我們教育部是不是應該去統合因為坦白講AI大家都知道"},{"start":3018.928,"end":3048.251,"text":"但是大家知道到什麼程度做到什麼程度那台灣跟世界比較到我們差不多到什麼樣的水準目前在AI的硬體裡面台灣應該是G站前應該是第一名啦當之無愧啦但是在AI的軟體AI的應用裡面我們大概排目前的次序我查一下資料大概是有21名所以台灣其實在應用軟體這邊還有很大的空間"},{"start":3049.383,"end":3067.445,"text":"那今天還有那個其實有很多我想AI的教育我這簡單的跟部長報告跟院長報告就是說台灣的AI教育就是說在教育部應該有一個主導的地位而去了解全國到底AI的人才培育到什麼程度"},{"start":3068.668,"end":3085.486,"text":"這個部分希望說部長再繼續幫忙謝謝委員我大概簡單補充跟委員所關心的有關AI這個部分我們事實上是有一個新的規劃一系列的AI方舟人才的培育大計畫"},{"start":3086.84,"end":3089.942,"text":"那另外包含我們根據OECD這個世界經濟論壇還有許多產業還有這個聯合國教科文組織我們大概也"},{"start":3102.438,"end":3129.443,"text":"也做了一些由下而上到產業由上而下的這樣一個反覆的一個Panel Discussion我們的教育部的團隊所以我們也規劃出了一個AI的未來人才AI圖像我們到底希望在AI世代裡邊AI時代裡邊我們希望的教育我們的人才未來人才到底要長成什麼樣他們需要具備有什麼樣的能力應用AI的能力能夠"},{"start":3130.578,"end":3158.651,"text":"有這個善用有價值的這個使用的AI也就是說他要能夠這一個譬如說能夠除錯能夠辨別許多的資訊的一些真偽還有他能夠有效的使用AI去解決問題以及還有屬於科技沒有包括的一些創造力同理心等等的這些的能力我們現在的圖像各個從小學"},{"start":3159.732,"end":3173.375,"text":"國中高中到大學我們的能力指標教學目標未來需要的我們都已經非常有系統完整的簡單的跟部長報告說跟部長這樣子的述說我想最後一個就是說"},{"start":3174.349,"end":3189.054,"text":"這跟我一開始在講的故事就是小孩子在賽跑是 剛才我其實非常感動委員所特別提到的教育的本質其實在那一個我們怎麼樣過一個美好的生活而不是競爭"},{"start":3190.314,"end":3218.563,"text":"下了一個教育人格的一個發展我們怎麼樣有一個更高的同理心悲憫的心然後幸福的感覺能夠知足常樂也能夠關心弱勢我覺得剛才委員所提的令人感動你一直講我沒有時間部長我要講的是前面的科技經濟其實就是在跑步AI的科技我們其實硬體在全世界佔首屈一指"},{"start":3219.815,"end":3227.13,"text":"軟體的部分硬的部分我希望就跟跑步一樣我們最後看成績希望說我們現在大概是21名了"},{"start":3227.797,"end":3250.665,"text":"那怎麼樣跑到18名15名10名內這個部分我希望說我們也設定一個目標就陳委員所講的我們不僅要有專業的知識我們同時要能夠關懷他們那經濟其實台灣現在股票是萬點現在台灣GDP很高其實大家都歡喜在台灣其實真的很進步但是我要提醒部長跟提醒院長就是說"},{"start":3251.209,"end":3272.728,"text":"在這個貧富差距的鹹酥裡面,AI如何去協助傳統科技百工百業融入生活,那就是說要怎麼樣去照顧弱勢,一般我們的策略是很簡單的,發電經濟照顧弱勢,弱勢一般是社會團體的弱勢,那我想一般的弱勢,包括產業的弱勢,"},{"start":3274.253,"end":3302.33,"text":"這些可能需要部長 需要院長跟其他各部會其實傳統產業目前其實是很辛苦的包括傳統產業的收入那這個部分我們要怎麼樣去把那個傳統產業融入AI再把它提升上來這個部分那最後品德教育我事實上還希望說我認為最重要的是融入生活就是我們在國小 國中 高中 大學我們品德教育有沒有一個融入生活的機制"},{"start":3303.069,"end":3329.491,"text":"或者是去了解 或者是給他什麼樣的協助我記得 剛才我們在說AI人才培育基地有沒有品德教育推動小組或者是品德教育推動委員會我教育部整體在看看我全國這一部分的推動效果到底是要到什麼程度就跟這個小朋友拉著一個蝦子 拉著一個老婦人一起走到終點"},{"start":3330.27,"end":3343.256,"text":"那種感覺那這個部分我們在學校裡面有沒有具體的羅波去加分去推動去幫助我們社會的各個階層包括學校裡面有在做這件事"},{"start":3344.635,"end":3368.573,"text":"謝謝委員提醒 事實上在生命教育裡邊我想我們國民教育的這個目標開宗明義就是要培養德智體型美 五育均衡發展所以它當然不是只是一個知識上的一個傳輸那當然生活教育 生命教育在中小學裡邊措施 我要的是行動都有一定的一個各個學校事實上也能進民間的啟發我們108課綱其實課綱寫平台都寫得蠻不錯的是"},{"start":3373.962,"end":3397.612,"text":"但是他重點不是在講大學重點是在做AI怎麼樣把生命教育這一塊能夠融進來再來就是校師會議校師會議為什麼現在這麼多的教師會缺為什麼大家不敢不想現在有人哪幾個老師敢教得很嚴的部長你簡單回答一下"},{"start":3398.901,"end":3418.626,"text":"跟委員報告也感謝委員關心怎麼樣讓老師能夠更安心專業的去教導指導我們的下一代我講一下校士會的問題校士會也跟委員報告因為過去原來校士會的起因它有一個背景是因為老師做了不當的使得學生的生命受到威脅"},{"start":3419.406,"end":3439.865,"text":"那這樣喪失生命,所以才有對不適合教師的一個解聘不續聘,有校事會議但是因為當時班花了以後,所有學校的大小事全部都到校事會議現在其實你問所有的老師,90%以上的老師是好的,我們贊成對不對90%以上的校長是好的,我們也贊成對不對"},{"start":3444.454,"end":3451.968,"text":"但是呢現在少數的老師不好我們該是校會該處理要處理少數的校長不好"},{"start":3453.049,"end":3479.581,"text":"我今天老是很擔心所以我們今天校師會議已經做了更改做了一個分流等於說真正這個小組裡面第一個要判斷的是他是不是已經他的行為錯誤到要解聘的階段如果他只是來自於班級經營上的一些可能需要提醒他就能夠改善這時候就不進入到校務會議了我給具體改善"},{"start":3480.066,"end":3484.527,"text":"有發生這種小黑字不要被擴大成大刀疤美女臉上一顆小黑字跟美女臉上的大刀疤是不一樣的"},{"start":3504.69,"end":3533.324,"text":"但是你如果小黑字就會被擴大成大刀疤的話這個就是很危險的這就是我們先前改變那個校士會議的一個基層但是現在校士會議大家擔心啊老師擔心啊校長也不願意啊跟我們報告我們的新版其實基層老師還蠻高興我們做了這樣一個調整這個我在基層跑很多我教育界出身的我基層跑很多我說第一個我具體建立時間不多第一個就是說在校內先有個協調小組"},{"start":3535.109,"end":3552.379,"text":"我講的就是好歹老實懂不懂都不錯有一些紛爭如果是小刀八大刀八當然該處理要處理如果是小黑字在校內協調就協調這個是第一個步驟第二個步驟校內如果協調不太順暢的時候教育局有一個"},{"start":3553.976,"end":3554.116,"text":"主席"},{"start":3589.577,"end":3601.52,"text":"好 謝謝徐委員好 謝謝徐委員下一位請林一錦委員質詢"},{"start":3602.864,"end":3603.364,"text":"謝謝副院長有請卓院長請卓院長備詢"},{"start":3644.372,"end":3659.708,"text":"中國對台灣的無聲入侵早就漲開台灣的無人機產業許多公司總部或主力的工廠就設在我們副院長所在地台中可是國民黨還是橫起來砍光無人機的預算"},{"start":3660.489,"end":3682.58,"text":"台灣哪裡最痛就往哪裡下刀那不只我們的國防產業中國甚至連台灣的健康人權也要破壞那中國甚至也直接嗆名那就是不要讓台灣參加即將要舉辦第79屆的世界衛生大會那面對中國無聲的入侵院長你有什麼話要向國際來表示"},{"start":3686.189,"end":3705.982,"text":"台灣生在這樣的一個時代我們剛剛好有這個高科技的製造的領先的技術跟地位又在國際這種地緣政治跟非紅產業供應鏈的需求當中剛好這個契機 乘幾而十台灣可以討論到我們可以進入到軍工產業的國際鏈上面去"},{"start":3708.283,"end":3737.028,"text":"以前從來沒有過有這麼好的一個機會所以這是編的1.25兆的特別條例跟特別預算當中三塊拼圖第一個台灣之盾保護台灣第二個高科技引進形成精準的擊殺鏈保護台灣第三個壯大我們的軍工相關的本土產業這塊尤其重要所以跟國際上我們必須提出的是說國家的安全不能再推遲了"},{"start":3737.779,"end":3762.01,"text":"我們的國際的合作也沒有辦法再延宕而且我們軍工產業的發展也不能放棄所以在這次大院通過的七千八百億的特別預算當中非常遺憾的偏偏就少了這一塊所以我希望朝野能夠團結一致來守護國家的主權"},{"start":3763.759,"end":3791.224,"text":"政黨對內可以競爭在國家主權跟安全上應該要合作這台菜才會讓國際對台灣更多的信賴跟我們更多的合作我們才能夠掌握到這樣的契機就正如院長所說其實很顯然中國侵略台灣是兩大軸線一個就是軍事一個就是論述那講到軍事剛剛院長也有提及就是這一次在野黨把我們的軍購條例打折打到骨折"},{"start":3791.964,"end":3814.677,"text":"那其實在第一時間美國國務院就馬上表態他說台灣如果有人在拖延規劃好的這個防衛能力的經費就是在對中國共產黨讓步那白宮官員也有表示我們被砍了4700億的軍購特別條例感到非常失望世界各國其實都在眼睜睜看著"},{"start":3815.638,"end":3841.197,"text":"這個台灣在鄭麗文去中國喊台灣海峽是內海的同時又在國內發動這個軍購審查的破壞所以可以說他是協助中國讓中國不需要一顆子彈就可以瓦解這個台灣那麼一大塊的這個所謂的軍力的建構所以這個情況之下那院長你日前有受訪說您會"},{"start":3844.201,"end":3850.558,"text":"挽回人民的信心以及國際對我們的信賴所以具體的作為院長是怎麼樣"},{"start":3851.52,"end":3874.776,"text":"我說要補救的不是預算本身而是國家主權跟國家安全要挽回是人民的信心跟國際上對台灣的信賴那我們現在必須要有什麼樣的作為第一個我們還是要第一個向國際我們的友盟去請求他們多一些耐性給我們多一些時間能夠讓我們完成國內的程序"},{"start":3875.416,"end":3901.624,"text":"第二個我們要呼籲國內的軍工相關連的產業要站出來為自己產業的發展需求跟政府密切的合作提出長遠的一個可規劃的一個計畫出來第三個我們當然會在盤整現在這個4700億的缺失不足的部分我們依照憲法的精神依照預算法的規定有各種的方式可以救濟我們尋求當中內容"},{"start":3904.639,"end":3922.37,"text":"程序以及時效最好的最有力的途徑我們再向大院來提出爭取補足這三塊拼圖最重要的這一塊非常好院長那剛好提到兩個路徑一個就是軍事一個就是論述那剛剛院長也有提到就是說其實中國"},{"start":3924.471,"end":3945.721,"text":"中國加入台灣的內政框架的論述的主論就是聯合國2758號決議很明顯中國外交部長的王毅他上個月在聯合國大會主席時他又一次扭曲聯合國2758號決議"},{"start":3947.222,"end":3960.487,"text":"他宣稱二七五八號決議就是徹底解決包括台灣在內全中國在內聯合國代表權的問題可是我們發現一個很諷刺的現象全世界都比身為當事人的台灣更積極展現"},{"start":3963.388,"end":3972.301,"text":"反對中國曲解2758號決議的態度我們舉例來說像去年美國聯邦眾議會就有無意通過台灣國際團結法案來表明聯合國2758號決議是無赦台灣主權"},{"start":3980.652,"end":4009.082,"text":"那澳洲、荷蘭、歐洲議會、加拿大、英國、捷克、比利時等國會也都有紛紛通過反對中國曲解2758號決議的挺台表態可是我們的國會卻遲遲沒有辦法協商出一個反對中國扭曲2758號決議的共同表態然後這形同讓國際社會好像是用熱臉在貼台灣的冷屁股"},{"start":4009.702,"end":4034.67,"text":"那我們就向國際社會傳遞出非常錯誤的訊息所以針對這一再卡關的立法院長韓國瑜我不曉得院長您對他有什麼喊話針對這個扭曲2758號決議那如果台灣如果在藍白惡搞下那我們持續跟國際社會唱反調你覺得我們國人會承受到什麼樣更大的風險 院長"},{"start":4036.712,"end":4052.44,"text":"歷史的事實跟真相就是一樣而不是今天誰拳頭大誰講的聲音就代表正義或正確的一方所以關於歷史2758號的解釋包括總統包括行政院包括外交部都有非常正確而且重要的一個講法"},{"start":4053.274,"end":4067.228,"text":"但是國會因為國會的結構是如此我們也只能期待國會能夠站在國家一體的立場上來對國家的重要政策提出對歷史有交代對子孫也有保障的一個講話"},{"start":4068.137,"end":4086.398,"text":"不過我是認為我跟韓院長之間不要用喊話我常常可以跟他對話我也跟他談話我可以談出我們兩位院長應該同心來協力為國家的安全跟國家的利益來做著想我希望韓院長也能夠跟我有這樣的有利於國家的對話"},{"start":4087.247,"end":4107.953,"text":"好 謝謝院長那再來要跟院長談論到的是太空發展的問題蕭美琴副總統有說台灣即使在太空領域我們起步比較晚可是我們絕對不缺席全球的發展那吳承文主委在我上一次質詢他的時候他也有提及說美國登月計畫台灣一定會參與"},{"start":4109.173,"end":4126.173,"text":"那既然如此本席就要請教卓院長目前我們還沒有看到任何的預算也不清楚相關的規劃那今天可不可以請卓院長來表示一下就能公開的部分向國人報告美國登月計畫台灣不會缺席那更具體來講是什麼院長"},{"start":4128.155,"end":4149.478,"text":"我們有一個太空第三三期計畫這就是規劃外太空的一個探索那這裡的有一個相關編列的預算有14.6億元的預算這其中有四項探月科學的這個相關的規劃其中就是跟美國的阿比提斯的計畫在做合作我想這個請"},{"start":4150.399,"end":4176.357,"text":"主委更說明清楚是 報告委員我們兩年前開始規劃太空三期的修正那其實那個時候美國的NASA跟我們太空中心還沒有實質的合作但是我們非常的努力經過這個兩年的努力委員也知道說NASA現在已經正式同意跟台灣我們太空中心來做這個合作那我們在這個太空三期修正案已經編了14.6億對"},{"start":4179.482,"end":4182.716,"text":"針對外太空探索的預算已經有編進來了"},{"start":4184.367,"end":4209.438,"text":"因為美國的TASA Act他們目前正在國會審議當中其實台灣非常有希望成為美國可以合作的認證合作夥伴所以如果假設我們有預算量能來支撐我們再來跟美國TASA Act這麼好的善意的計畫我們就可以來銜接所以部長跟院長是非常有把握"},{"start":4210.278,"end":4230.477,"text":"可以承接這個量能提到這個TASA Act這就是一個台灣太空的資源的法案是針對台灣嘛針對台美太空原住房所以這雙方合作已經在一個起步過程當中我們編的預算也有相關的計畫在推動也跟美發展計畫在做合作總統有說過"},{"start":4233.7,"end":4255.217,"text":"探索太空 競逐海洋這個又是國家的願景所以我們必須在這個前提底下向外做全部的發展好 那接下來就是要詢問院長蕭副總統日前有接受媒體專訪他透露賴清德總統會指派他主持新成立的太空技科技發展委員會所以請問卓院長這個太空委員會的具體內容有什麼亮點"},{"start":4256.848,"end":4271.779,"text":"我知道這個委員會是由副總統在主持我想當中有一些是還在進行過程的細節那一定要等到更成熟的時候我們才能夠把它細節做更多的說明"},{"start":4272.219,"end":4300.049,"text":"至少我們對太空發展這件事情是非常非常的重視好那再來想要跟您提到這個中正紀念堂轉型的問題喔今年的4月5號民間團體已經第三年舉辦了台灣不需要獨裁者紀念堂的行動那呼籲要關閉中正紀念堂的堂體那來拆除蔣介石的銅像並將這個地方轉型成為民主空間那實際上本席早在"},{"start":4301.469,"end":4329.103,"text":"之前就有提出中正紀念堂管理處組織法的廢紙案我也有提一個新立案就是國立民主教育園區管理處組織法做為來替代那我要求行政院和文化部應該要儘速跟上中正紀念堂轉型相關法制的作業那若短期內做不到那至少也要先停止這個台灣傷口上的撒鹽就是要關閉"},{"start":4330.484,"end":4352.215,"text":"中聖紀念堂堂體的大門來截斷這個威權崇拜的軸線直到我們提出更好的轉型方案所以請教院長關閉堂體這件事情做不做得到那因為這項訴求至少在2022的9月行政院推動轉型正義的會報第一次會議就被提起喔 院長"},{"start":4353.331,"end":4377.581,"text":"我這個非常謝謝李遠部長擔任文化部長期間程旭過去的努力一直對紀念堂的一個轉型做了很多很多的不同的交涉溝通等等有一些進展比方說我們把這個儀隊就移到這個牌樓底下來這是他第一步那未來的這個紀念堂應該朝兩個方向來做改進一個就是保存歷史記憶"},{"start":4378.641,"end":4398.298,"text":"一個就是推廣民主教育我們希望成為一個民主教育園區所以我認為在兩個保存歷史記憶跟推廣民主教育的前提底下關門是一個考量如果打開門是打開一個民主的大門也許是另外一個考量可是要打開民主大門同時沒有關上這個威權崇拜的門"},{"start":4400.199,"end":4425.565,"text":"實際上也是很說不過去喔所以這個是不是也請院長跟部長好好來做一個考量因為這真的是停止在台灣傷口上灑鹽的一個最根本的方式我補充一點就好就是說當初中中經驗堂的所有設立包括樓梯的幾階還有那個其實大家進去都是膜拜不是休息的確是這樣所以我們現在有一個"},{"start":4426.195,"end":4435.613,"text":"除了不但辦活動之外還有一個就是去除威權空間那這個我們在努力地做去除威權的空間給別人走進來之後感覺"},{"start":4436.462,"end":4460.644,"text":"他不是一個只有膜拜的空間好 謝謝部長 謝謝院長那接下來用短短的時間要來跟院長向教學支援老師們請命因為教育部去年底有宣布兼任跟待課老師的終點費全面調整20%那同樣也在進行教學工作的教學支援老師卻沒有在這波終點費調整的範圍內"},{"start":4462.666,"end":4490.704,"text":"那真的這件事情其實本席在上個會期末有質詢過教育部正部長那正部長很感謝他他從善如流那同意要一併調整所以國教署也已經在今年1月發函給行政院那這個案子現在就在行政院審查中所以院長本席想說的是說教學資源的老師他對國家語言的發展是非常重要的角色本土語言老師像是台語原住民語 客語等等"},{"start":4491.004,"end":4515.994,"text":"他們在教學現場往往失智不足需要教學支援老師來指引那因為教學支援老師是非正式編制所以常常會面臨同工不同酬的這種勞動條件的困境相當不合理那這個案子現在在行政院目前不曉得進度如何那不知道院長什麼時候會核定那如果核定之後是不是會比照今天跟戴克老師中免費調整一樣追溯到去年的九月"},{"start":4516.505,"end":4541.158,"text":"是 過去委員提出過教師的各項費用是多年沒有調整教育部跟行政院就非常重視所以我們就展開了比較大幅度的調整比方中等費 高中老師505國中是455 國小405調高了大概百分之二十二到二十之間那對於這個資源的教師目前應該按照相同的比例正在人事總署的審議當中我會請人事總署儘快審議我們希望趕快"},{"start":4552.804,"end":4565.755,"text":"好 謝謝林委員 謝謝卓院長包園會教育及文化組織諮詢已詢答完畢休息五分鐘 休息之後進行交通組織諮詢 現在休息"},{"start":4943.305,"end":4963.156,"text":"包園會現在繼續開會進行交通組織諮詢首先請蘇委員巧會諮詢好謝謝主席我們請卓院長好請卓院長備詢"},{"start":4973.383,"end":4992.634,"text":"蘇緯好 院長好 這是我這一屆第四次在交通這個領域跟您進行總質詢的探討因為交通實在是對新北市重中之重甚至是交通我們的轄下所觀光的相關事務也是新北市的重要資產"},{"start":4993.675,"end":5009.884,"text":"那我曾經說內容產業和觀光產業都可能是台灣未來的護國神山所以本席作為新北市的立法委員尤其這次也即將是新北市長的候選人之一"},{"start":5010.464,"end":5036.243,"text":"那麼我對我們這麼美麗的新北市有山有海的新北市我會提出我們的觀光產業政見我將提出的是新皇冠計畫新皇冠海岸計畫以及鑽石山城的計畫這就是針對我們新北市的海岸線還有我們的山城像皇冠計畫的部分呢我就會認為我們從海岸的外到內"},{"start":5037.324,"end":5064.744,"text":"他其實可以是善用海洋體檢我們的漁港漁業碼頭等等讓我們的碼頭漁業做更好你可以從建設路廊從鐵公路汽機車自行車到人行道做全面的體檢設施甚至是包括活化在內陸上面的場館讓內陸的場館做更好的利用他鑽石山城呢也是更多包括我們可以做山海大縱走"},{"start":5065.664,"end":5093.91,"text":"結合觀光鐵道觀光列車特色車站復科礦業聚落重現百年的礦業遺產串聯茶文化推動國際茶文化節甚至活化老街完善山城住宿這裡每一項其實都跟交通部所匣的觀光署等等會有重大的關聯但是今天在這個總質詢我想特別就我們的"},{"start":5095.632,"end":5118.487,"text":"活化場館的這個部分以及路網的部分跟院長就教院長你知道我們新北市的北海岸和東北角有天然的觀光資源那它這兩個地區都分別有交通部觀光署的北海岸觀音山和東北角宜蘭海岸兩大國家風景區"},{"start":5119.628,"end":5140.009,"text":"那你知道這兩個風管處加起來在新北市管轄的範圍有多大這兩個風景區佔了我們新北市的管轄風景比如說以海岸線來講這兩個風管處我們的新北海岸線被風管處管理的部分有多少"},{"start":5140.612,"end":5161.967,"text":"依照委員對新北市的瞭解這個數字委員應該比我清楚 請教委員事實上 風管處佔了新北海岸線的一半以上那如果用面積來看的話呢兩大風景區的綠域面積 陸地上的面積佔了1.6萬公頃相當於我們的一個坪林甚至是七個板橋這麼大"},{"start":5163.288,"end":5190.975,"text":"所以兩個風管處做得好不好真的跟新北市有很大的關係這點院長可以同意吧是 我們尤其從三芝 野柳到白沙灣 觀音山 乃至於九屏島等等統統都是好 那我們就從這個風管處裡面大家最能夠眼睛看到的地標性建物也就是遊客中心來看看好了我們舉這個遊客中心院長 你知道這個遊客中心裡面有沒有賣地方特產"},{"start":5191.935,"end":5203.254,"text":"應該要有市長 遊客中心裡面有賣地方特產嗎有有原創商品嗎有伴手禮嗎 全國獨一無二的伴手禮嗎 遊客中心"},{"start":5204.564,"end":5227.2,"text":"在他們都會有相關的一個規劃答案是都沒有我用白沙灣的遊客中心給你做例子好了你看看我們這是白沙灣的遊客中心事實上這個遊客中心非常的漂亮非常的漂亮也很舒適所以你在夏天去北海岸玩的時候如果你走進遊客中心裡面你會覺得冷氣很涼爽空間不錯"},{"start":5228.001,"end":5246.457,"text":"但你能夠看到的是什麼呢它有停車場 補給乳室穆斯林鏡下設施都有喔然後裡面也有一些裝置藝術等等包括投影互動的老綠莓時潮地景或者是北海岸的地理大地圖潮間帶的投影互動看起來都很不錯但就這樣"},{"start":5247.994,"end":5271.236,"text":"我跟委員報告在這個管理中心的某一個右邊的一個角落還有咖啡廳啦你如果要說的是這個的話還有盥洗室我都幫你說了我沒有覺得他不好但我覺得他可以更好可以更好的意思是什麼部長你剛剛沒有去過遊客中心但你一定去過國道休息站對吧國道休息站沒有問題嘛對不對"},{"start":5272.077,"end":5295.499,"text":"國道休息站同樣是在交通部管轄的設施當中剛剛是北海岸的遊客中心現在這個是國道服務區國道服務區裡面你看看除了道路資訊提供公廁餐廳賣場這種基本的之外當然包括了剛剛您會說的農特產品啊辦手禮啊甚至是有更多現代化的服務設施所以"},{"start":5295.879,"end":5304.645,"text":"他的營收已經都突破了歷史的新高像這個國道服務區還有一則新聞說清水站單日就886萬創紀錄蘇澳客站客單價是208元多冠"},{"start":5313.01,"end":5324.744,"text":"那人次的部分呢 清水服務站在2025年呢 突破了10億元到訪人數有525萬那西螺也有397萬那剛剛白沙灣是多少剛剛白沙灣65萬"},{"start":5329.744,"end":5357.526,"text":"所以可見的他們吸引人的程度差很多被利用的程度也差很多那不只是台灣的國道服務處可以借鏡參考如果最近大家都喜歡去日本那如果去以日本來看的話我們有道之翼這樣的一個設施因為我們自己也去參訪過日本的道之翼呢其實就在沿路當中把旅客休憩中心功能結合資訊整合功能擴充"},{"start":5358.447,"end":5381.958,"text":"它甚至可以有非常多的運用包括了景觀欣賞包括了農特產品甚至是可以辦節慶活動所以在這麼多種的特色之下這個道之意成了大家非去不可的地方它本身最後就成為了在地的特色景點"},{"start":5383.178,"end":5409.19,"text":"遊客去第一個就會想去這裡甚至是為了這裡的節慶活動而去這個地方所以它最後就變成了地方創生的一個入口網站地方創生經濟的帶動網站這就是今天我特別在這個地方總質詢的地方想跟部長甚至交通部今天是次長代表跟您分享的部分是新北市風景這麼好"},{"start":5410.37,"end":5439.95,"text":"有這麼好的海岸線北海岸東北角兩大海岸線這樣結合起來有這麼大的地方但確實是在北關處管轄的所以北關處做得好不好對我們來講至關重要那剛剛我舉了國內的例子甚至是日本的例子讓院長參考你是不是可以在這裡同意並承諾交通部可以照著剛剛的方向去做這些遊客中心進一步的升級讓遊客中心成為新北市"},{"start":5441.671,"end":5462.959,"text":"觀光景點重要的入口節點好的謝謝委員遊客中心既然有這麼好的硬體設備那我覺得風景處他太不會行銷了也不注重服務應該多行銷把這個景點推上出去最好的方式第一個服務遊客讓遊客來覺得非常的親切再來幫助在地的特色產業讓在地的產業能夠進來那也是"},{"start":5466.502,"end":5477.34,"text":"對產業這些農民或是一些生產者很好的一個協助將較結合之下把產業觀光經濟跟遊客結合在一起我希望要注重行銷我也請交通部在這個地方加強"},{"start":5477.987,"end":5502.118,"text":"而且在這個地方其實應該廣納地方的團體可以進來包括農會漁會創生團體都能夠在這裡表達意見並且讓遊客中心成為這些團體這些農民漁民創生團體最好產品的發揮舞台我想集合眾人之力可以成就的事情一定是更大不過院長在這裡的話我也不忍苛責交通部因為其實"},{"start":5503.318,"end":5531.147,"text":"觀光處在這邊要能夠做到的部分應該是要跟地方政府要結合的力道要多一點所以未來我們也會希望地方政府的角色能夠進去跟交通部這裡可以多做結合一起來推動地方在地的觀光我想這才是新北市民甚至是全國大家所期待的應該有同意這樣的狀況可以跟地方政府多合作高速公路上面休息這樣的進行方式"},{"start":5531.607,"end":5558.172,"text":"也可以吸取我們國發會協助各地地方創生的模式再來重要跟地方的政府產業能夠密切的合作才能夠成功所以這個是場館活化的部分那麼接下來我們想要進入到路網的部分也跟院長這邊做一個分享和報告還有可以改進的地方以路網來講的話院長你有做過大眾運輸去剛剛我們說的北海岸嗎應該也沒有吧"},{"start":5558.752,"end":5579.074,"text":"那有坐過大眾運輸其實就是公車啦去到九份或金瓜石嗎我想可能也沒有因為我們大部分都是開車早年有好那跟院長報告齁其實坐一趟公車以現在大家最直達的公車去到剛剛說的比如說白沙灣好了"},{"start":5579.915,"end":5602.378,"text":"最方便的做法以現在目前最方便的做法是你在淡水捷運站然後換公車去到白沙灣可是呢第一他班次很少一天只有六班那再加上你是捷運轉公車所以你從台北市新北市一趟路去到了白沙灣至少要兩個小時以上那更不要說去野柳的話大概也是如此"},{"start":5602.938,"end":5629.789,"text":"好 可是反過來你如果去九份或金瓜石它的路線是什麼呢它的路線呢 其實不到十分鐘在尖峰時刻不到十分鐘就有一班喔所以非常非常的方便而且是從板橋台北車站公車直接出發所以這樣的兩種方式來講不同的公車路線設計導致的結果差很大啊差很大 你看我們的北海黃貫北海岸線"},{"start":5631.79,"end":5647.664,"text":"2024年搭乘的人數只有3.8萬人可是同樣九份金瓜實現2024年搭乘的有592萬人這個差距非常非常的大那為什麼會這麼大我相信不只是地方剛剛說的"},{"start":5649.125,"end":5672.403,"text":"景點的差距其實是路網的便利性也有很大的差距所以我認為是這樣啦我認為我們的北海岸東北角其實觀光最主要就在吃夏季這段時間所以夏季這段時間交通部是不是可以沿你比照九份金瓜石這樣的黃金路線你現在覺得這是觀光的黃金路線所以你的班次開很多"},{"start":5673.123,"end":5688.818,"text":"但反過來我們是不是可以事先優先的去增設一些至少你給我一些跳蛙的班次讓我的北海岸東北角的大眾運輸可以多幾班你試試看嘛你班次增加了我相信觀光的人士一定會增加交通部可以承諾嗎"},{"start":5690.035,"end":5709.759,"text":"我想委員這部分我們來要求觀光署尤其是北海岸風景區管理處如何就剛才講的這個台灣好行這大概就是台灣好行的路線沒錯 這就是台灣好行如何來增加它的一個班次或是採用跳蛙的方式因為你現在說人數少所以收益不好所以有班次少"},{"start":5710.259,"end":5737.646,"text":"那這個永遠不會有一個結局我就只會最後等到他路線乾脆被結束算了可是反過來你如果是在適當的時間是增加班次是直達的我相信乘客率載客率一定會提高啊九份金花石就是一個最好的例子啊所以我要求的是延益倒過來我先開出了開出了我的班次我們再來看我們的客人乘客數是不是可以增加再做檢討嗎交通部可以答應嗎我們請觀光署來檢討好"},{"start":5739.887,"end":5752.001,"text":"那部長這個院長剛剛部長交通部這樣承諾了我想院長應該也覺得這是可行的方向吧是這個研議如何把這個優化路網拉高之外還要把這個"},{"start":5753.635,"end":5769.583,"text":"其他的這個北海岸的其他景點對更成熟化那我這只是舉例而已嘛我這個只是舉例之一而已好的路網設計那景點能夠讓更推廣對人才會來交通要先走是所以這是交通路網的設計好既然講到路網的話那其實還有另外一層"},{"start":5770.223,"end":5785.961,"text":"我剛剛說我們的皇冠海岸計畫是一層一層由海岸的外而內一層一層來推進不但是漁港碼頭要總體檢讓海上的活動可以復甦第二層陸網的部分剛剛跟您分享了這個"},{"start":5787.102,"end":5810.176,"text":"公車大眾運輸的部分但如果我是自己自己開車騎車自行車去的呢其實我們要很感謝交通部其實現在也有在推動北海岸大野柳灣計畫東北角的計畫都是讓自行車道布建的更好所以合計將近120公里的自行車步道都在整建我覺得這樣很好給予肯定"},{"start":5810.936,"end":5828.491,"text":"但是我覺得只有好真的不夠這是一個注重細節的時代如果我的自行車只是一直騎一直騎中間沒有休息那我要怎麼停下來去進行觀光去進行消費去進行休憩呢我就算再厲害我也不可能一次騎完120公里啊"},{"start":5830.473,"end":5852.265,"text":"所以是不是可以比照像日本像國外其他加拿大的設施人家大概每5公里就有一個休憩站不管是充氣的喝水的簡單的休憩站同時現在的自行車都這麼的貴所以我們的自行車保持駕是不是也可以有適當的讓他可以臨停上鎖"},{"start":5853.306,"end":5877.183,"text":"保證安全了之後那我才仍有可能離開去進行觀光和消費這就是細節我也希望交通部可以研議改進可以嗎我想跟委員報告有關委員剛才特別提到目前交通部正在舊北海岸的這個自行車路網來做油化那剛才委員特別提到不管是這個自放自放駕或者是休息站或友善的設施等等的"},{"start":5888.353,"end":5890.374,"text":"謝謝蘇委員 謝謝卓院長下一位請張宏祿委員質詢"},{"start":5915.395,"end":5920.642,"text":"我先請交通部然後交通部次長來 次長"},{"start":5932.699,"end":5955.08,"text":"市長其實我今天要再次跟你們討論我們板橋設後輕軌我不知道你對這個案子了不了解有一定的了解在去年新北市政府有太板輕軌路線規劃說明會"},{"start":5958.644,"end":5971.776,"text":"是新北市政府第五次提出的那時候侯友宜市長也說通過的機率很高我想請問一下我記得審查結果到目前也是還沒有吧"},{"start":5973.002,"end":5995.178,"text":"對 我們的了解新北市提出了這個可行的方案裡頭就涉後輕軌的部分放進去加以研議後來是沒有放在這個可行性裡面新北市政府他有預留倒查而且預留廊道對不對是 他有在相關的這個預留的廊道預留的這個的話是不是表示要做"},{"start":5996.539,"end":6022.527,"text":"這個是代表說後這個系統他有繼續延伸的可能繼續延伸就是他已經留了路線了嘛所以是未來也是要做吧不然留幹嘛我們相關的一個建設大概都會就這個後續入網的延伸來做相關的規劃從這裡頭就可以看到這個在目前為止因為他特別提到無法在"},{"start":6023.467,"end":6044.267,"text":"這時候來可行是因為相關的路廊還沒找到那如果路廊找到了之後呢他又預留的道差那就可以往後繼續來行使你說你對這個有了解你完全不了解之前的王國財部長人家也規劃了路廊全部都出來了而且路線都有了"},{"start":6045.697,"end":6072.307,"text":"而且這個我已經好幾個會席我都質詢了這個問題而且這個整個社後支線我們那邊有十幾萬人完全沒有一個軌道的運輸而且那邊又有新的重劃區所以地方的需求是非常非常的迫切而且我也在"},{"start":6075.421,"end":6099.035,"text":"在這個太阪輕軌要規劃的時候我也替新北市政府跟我們交通部爭取了450萬的規劃經費來這個而且我要跟你講在2023年呢王國才部長在我們總質詢裡面有親口說社後支線將那太阪輕軌規劃案條件之一"},{"start":6101.874,"end":6121.746,"text":"然後呢陳建仁院長呢也是說確實有必要而且交通部會支持2024年3月8號這個王國才部長有說他們提出來多少中央該給多少補助就給多少補助這沒問題"},{"start":6123.857,"end":6134.39,"text":"整個規劃路線都出來了所以我剛一開始就先問你了不了解所以你不大了解也不怪你可能不是你的業務對不對"},{"start":6136.875,"end":6166.144,"text":"是 我跟委員報告一下這裡頭剛才委員特別提到到底他有預留所謂的這個延伸的這樣的一個機制其實就是代表我跟你講的意思是本來路線就有了現在新北市政府給你講他預留路線只是他一個說法而已而且這些大家都講得很清楚了我現在只是跟你講那我們交通部現在呢對這個案子是不是要繼續支持是不是"},{"start":6167.244,"end":6183.85,"text":"像之前部長講的王部長講的全力支持我跟委員報告交通部對這樣的一個捷運的建設地方的捷運的建設都是予以支持的但是他有一定的程序要去完備我跟您講其實就這個我也跟你們部長溝通很多次你們部長也是全力支持"},{"start":6194.216,"end":6221.952,"text":"他覺得這個現在就是要做了那現在差別就是在你們跟新北市政府的溝通就像你這樣講新北市政府怎樣預留什麼的我跟你講你今天不做未來就會後悔而且本來就是要做的路線規劃都出來了對不對我希望你們交通部可以跟新北市政府好好的溝通而不是每次都是跟底下的捷運局底下的人在那邊"},{"start":6223.533,"end":6249.75,"text":"你們可以直接找他們的市長找他們的誰說這個我交通部我錢都準備好了你們把它放進去我們馬上就可以啦這就一句話而已啊溝通的問題啊不是嗎是我想委員的關切的這部分我們會責請鐵道局來跟新北市政府來溝通啦看這個計畫如何讓它可行性的能夠盡速來核定好我再請問一下我不知道你對這個啊"},{"start":6251.112,"end":6264.431,"text":"開放進勞卡搭高鐵的事情你了不了解現在好我直接跟你說啦這個我也是爭取了很多次了"},{"start":6265.297,"end":6291.557,"text":"這個可以搭台鐵也是我經過好幾次的質詢最後突破了困難所以我們現在進勞卡可以搭台鐵那相同的高鐵你只要把設備經費把什麼的大概7000多萬我們把它做了人家地方政府就會配合就是這樣子一個很簡單的問題那我也不知道你們現在這個進度如何"},{"start":6292.793,"end":6311.644,"text":"可能你也不知道我跟委員報告一下啦原則上因為金老卡的這個議題他因為是老人使用了以後啊大概都會是開放自由做啦那自由做的時候不是啦你不要管他人家金老卡他也可以買對號做啊他是可以扣款的啊"},{"start":6313.509,"end":6340.518,"text":"你現在對台鐵的運作你不了解吧它是拿著這個敬老卡它是扣點它也是可以買對號座啊它只是地方政府用這個敬老卡我讓你可以扣這個點數而已啊這個只是我們的這個購票系統跟這個閘道這個去處理就好啦台鐵都做了台鐵我也是推了好幾年都做了你知道嗎"},{"start":6342.309,"end":6359.007,"text":"而且台鐵的車站數量車型更多台鐵都做到了我必須要這樣跟你講可能你對這個有點不了解我也不敢說不敢逼你不過"},{"start":6363.691,"end":6377.269,"text":"我在上次的總質詢的時候行政院院長我們的總院長他也答應說這個很好可以要推我今天只是說要請教一下那你們推的進度如何了"},{"start":6378.543,"end":6399.538,"text":"我跟委員報告現在高鐵目前正在規劃希望在116年新車進來以後他就會陸續來規劃這樣的一個方案那剛才委員特別提到說有關大概要六七千萬的經費的一個處理那些相關的設備那這部分我們鐵道局大概也會後來考慮相關的經費來補助高鐵公司"},{"start":6399.918,"end":6421.685,"text":"看怎麼樣來建設這樣的一套的系統所以剛剛委員特別提到的有關進勞卡在高鐵的使用大概是有這樣的一個規劃跟這樣的一個期程我是覺得啦這個比錢其實說多也不多其實也7000萬對整個政府的預算來講但你只要一做"},{"start":6422.389,"end":6441.368,"text":"很多的長者他就有他的方便性然後就可以來做而且現在南北大家做高鐵的很多台鐵都可以做了那我們的高鐵服務會比台鐵差嗎我一直要推的就是這個我們的高鐵的服務會比台鐵差嗎"},{"start":6443.873,"end":6452.922,"text":"不會不會但服務現在就是有比較差一點對不對所以這部分我剛才特別提到我們有在規劃有在規劃"},{"start":6455.894,"end":6482.021,"text":"規劃現在的進度到底大概什麼時候可以完成原則上因為高鐵公司正在想配合116年的新車進來以後來推出所以大概還有一陣子來做相關的規劃次長這一個的系統台灣號稱AI的王國這個為什麼要等到新車進來現在就可以做了"},{"start":6482.961,"end":6494.658,"text":"可以做的事情為什麼要等到要再等等等我覺得這個你們應該要思考一下不是這樣吧那個不好意思我想請卓院長卓院長請背信"},{"start":6506.342,"end":6533.324,"text":"謝謝張委員上次您也提過這樣的一個建議那我們認為服務長者這是大家共同的一個政策上的一個需求那目前他還有一些如何去結算以及跟地方政府意願還有這個補助額度的問題所以是除了交通部之外衛福部也正在跟地方政府協調請他們能夠依照多元發展的方向來促成這件事情跟院長"},{"start":6535.165,"end":6559.048,"text":"台鐵那時候在推也是有很多這種聲音那其實到最後一個很簡單我們怎麼解決了我跟你講你就把這個系統建置好地方政府他要多少金額他要多少什麼的他們自己會去處理你看現在全台灣各縣市做台鐵的每一個縣市的點數是不一樣的"},{"start":6560.168,"end":6573.481,"text":"但他就已經做了我在這邊就是說時間的問題因為我們既然算出12個車站需要7000萬來建置這個系統就表示說已經有進度了那又高鐵這個金額比較大"},{"start":6574.23,"end":6590.426,"text":"可能消費一次兩次他這個敬老卡如果去結算不足的部分怎麼結算還要跟地方政府談但我跟委員承諾我們盡量請交通部 衛福部轉期內趕快把它談成一個可行的方向出來就具體的落實好 謝謝院長我覺得這個也有一段時間了那"},{"start":6592.868,"end":6619.72,"text":"像剛剛我所請教次長的這個太阪輕軌我們社後支線的這個我會請院長跟交通部這邊督促其實就像我剛說的就溝通如果順利這個問題就解決了我覺得這個是為了我們板橋社後地區十幾萬人口這個沒有處理的話這個未來交通會癱瘓這麻煩院長可不可以"},{"start":6622.901,"end":6643.579,"text":"我們已經預留了太阪輕軌的支線未來的一個彈性的一個路但是現在要請新北市政府提出一個可行性的評估啦對所以要請新北市政府直接趕快來提結果我們再來做審查對那新北市政府一直覺得說我們太我們交通部啊這筆錢啊可能不會給"},{"start":6644.946,"end":6668.949,"text":"那我剛已經講了都已經之前都已經講好了這筆錢就是會有所以我覺得這個溝通的問題要請交通部再跟新北市政府好好溝通全國已經計畫中商會合訂包括合訂的軌道建設超過六千多億以上那因為財務法之後我們必須跟地方談但是計畫已經在那就是細節來談都可以無論如何先把這個可信性評估請地方政府先做出來"},{"start":6669.749,"end":6695.086,"text":"這個請交通部再去跟新北市政府協調好 謝謝院長最後我想請問這個剛好院長這幾天的媒體北印女老師的這個曲老師她這個言論這個陸委會說要教育部要去處理不知道我們這邊院長我們行政院會不會多出教育部去處理"},{"start":6696.613,"end":6718.235,"text":"校園裡面的教育問題我們希望能夠尊重老師但是如果一個導師一個老師他的言論跟國家現在面臨的整個政策是大幅的不同或者是嚴重的挑戰的時候那我認為教育部應該跟學校跟這位老師來進行必要的溝通甚至我們需要"},{"start":6719.156,"end":6733.996,"text":"他所影響的是很多的學生很多的學生來自不同的家庭學生之間會造成不同的意見在校園教室裡面去做爭論這個都不適當所以老師這麼強烈的政治立場的表態我個人認為不宜"},{"start":6734.497,"end":6750.693,"text":"但邀請教育部跟學校來對這個老師做行為上、教學上、言論上的一些溝通我為什麼會問這個問題我覺得老師你的言論你的什麼的我們都尊重但你今天是接受媒體的採訪這個我會認為"},{"start":6754.471,"end":6779.233,"text":"有一點政治就已經進入了校園的味道我覺得如果這樣子所有的老師都這樣子學的話我們台灣未來的教育體系裡面很多的老師沒有舊課本裡面的去講然後去一直講他的自己的立場這樣子我們台灣的教育體系會亂掉我們擔心的是這個我不知道所以這個"},{"start":6780.954,"end":6804.866,"text":"如果院長我個人是覺得說既然陸委會都已經這樣子講了那應該教育部就應該要去處理不能錯委員的建議我們一定要這樣處理請教育部跟學生因為我們的教育當然不是一元化的教育但是要啟發學生是人格上的是自己的自發性的一個想法"},{"start":6805.666,"end":6816.309,"text":"建立他自己人格獨立的思考而不是用一種政治力量灌注給他這樣是絕對不好的民主社會絕對不應該有這樣的現象存在好 謝謝院長跟次長 謝謝好 謝謝委員好 謝謝張委員 謝謝卓院長下一位請林佩祥委員質詢"},{"start":6830.026,"end":6856.72,"text":"我是報告院會在現在議場二樓旁聽席的有新北市占英社區大學的朋友們我們這邊歡迎他們另外我們也有來自國外的訪賓是歐洲青年政治領袖參訪團我們歡迎他們到議法院來Welcome請林委員質詢"},{"start":6858.462,"end":6874.804,"text":"好 謝謝主席有請卓院長跟陳世凱部長卓院長備詢陳部長請假由次長代理那先請卓院長吧因為其實蠻奇怪的卓院長請備詢"},{"start":6881.587,"end":6892.861,"text":"林委好卓院長早其實我這個事情剛剛剛好因為今天是交通組的質詢那我蠻期待說陳士凱部長本人可以到這邊請問他為什麼今天沒到呢市長說他是不是因為淡價請市長來說"},{"start":6901.035,"end":6926.552,"text":"因為我知道莎士說又用個人理由然後媒體一直跟我講說他今天淡江大橋動工典禮但是我記得上禮拜賴總統已經去開工典禮過一次了那今天老實說部長我認為是在國會接受質詢那我想卓院長本人也擔任過立法委員"},{"start":6927.452,"end":6950.575,"text":"一個部長應該在國會接受立法委員的質詢這是最基本的禮貌這是最基本的職責那麼今天我們沒有看到陳士凱部長我會覺得這樣是不是對於不是只對於我個人而已而是對於我們整個立法院甚至對於卓院長一種不尊重卓院長您認為是不是這樣以你當年當立法委員的經驗來說呢"},{"start":6952.729,"end":6981.068,"text":"當然總諮詢是每個會期重要的一個議程的進行那部會所長參加出席總諮詢那是義務也是責任那今天或許因為淡江大橋今天是早上10點鐘要進行祈福的典禮雖然我們在上禮拜已經完成了整個通車的典禮那因為這個也是一個地方的大事所以這個陳部長有透過如果照應照程序都會向秘書長請假"},{"start":6981.969,"end":7005.149,"text":"那我都一再的要求一定要跟大院像韓院長或是秘書長來做一個表示說他因為某種公務而請假能徵求同意這個也請委員見諒卓院長因為其實老實說如果是地方的大事那其實我認為像剛剛蘇曉慧委員跟張宏祿委員甚至我們這些新北市的立法委員理應應該受到邀請"},{"start":7006.03,"end":7033.658,"text":"但是我聽說啦當然也是媒體轉述跟我講的有發媒體通知然後卻沒有去邀請任何的地方代表這樣是不是有些哪裡不對勁呢這個請委員能夠了解那個前天晚上那麼已經舉行過一次非常大的一個典禮了5月9號對不對是5月9號的晚上舉行很大的一個典禮當場也有表演也有致詞那總統也到場我也到場"},{"start":7034.878,"end":7056.216,"text":"侯市長也到場朱副市長也到場很多委員也到場是非常現場有幾萬人在現場那這也是一個正式的一個通車的典禮那今天早上是通車之前一個比較簡單的祈福的典禮老師講因為我會認為說當然我們講不尊對於立法院的不尊重那我認為這是蠻顯而密見的"},{"start":7057.117,"end":7085.995,"text":"常常有一句話講說就是明明有一隻白大象在這個客廳裡面然後沒有人去談他所以我現在先花用一點時間把陳部長不在這件事我們先把他理清楚因為這樣因為我記得沒有錯的話現在時間是10點31分理論上11點整的時候他跟林福山局長還要坐在吉普車還要在吉普車上面然後要通過整個淡江大橋我覺得這樣的一個形式性的"},{"start":7086.915,"end":7108.825,"text":"作為我覺得其實對社會觀感至少對立法院我們這些委員們交通組質詢的委員們這觀感是不好的啦這個部分真的要請林委員見諒但是依法部長因公有必要的行程的時候由次長來這裡代為答詢那我們也請次長一定要依照"},{"start":7109.505,"end":7130.893,"text":"委員答詢的內容能夠秉持的依照政策來做說明希望能夠給委員詳實的答案如果有答覆不周或是不完全的地方我們事後容許再以書面的方式再給委員答覆那我會請陳部長再跟委員做必要的溝通那希望委員能夠對今天陳部長在因公沒辦法出席的這情況下能夠見諒"},{"start":7132.213,"end":7146.918,"text":"好那我們今天就直接先回到我們總質詢的內容那今天既然是次長在那我想我所詢問的內容次長都應該可以回答院長還有我們的次長還有我們所有的部長們今天講的事情其實一句話就可以總結了"},{"start":7147.978,"end":7173.129,"text":"我們現在因為過去這半年來應該是全世界有史以來過去八十年來世界上最動盪的時候那全世界在大地震之中我們不能還在慢慢走最近不管是中東情勢還是像是赫姆茲海峽這種全球能源命脈一旦卡住影響的不是某個國家而是全世界的物流油價甚至是我們老百姓每天的生活"},{"start":7173.689,"end":7186.324,"text":"那我因為本席以前在港務公司服務過所以我比較好奇就是說船是不是現在還在海上排隊那港口是不是還在塞車呢航班是不是有減少呢"},{"start":7191.082,"end":7208.362,"text":"那我說我們台灣目前有沒有被影響到行政院有沒有及時掌握全球的塞船狀況那我們海運有沒有減班有沒有延航甚至被轉單有沒有一套應變機制還是我們只能看到中東的新聞我們才知道說我們海運界應該如何應對"},{"start":7211.465,"end":7225.881,"text":"對 戰爭所迫及的中東地區 赫姆斯海峽我們所知道有數百艘的船還是在停止裡面那我們的國家的航商也有八艘的全翼輪還是停留在裡面那我們就經過跟航商的聯繫"},{"start":7227.242,"end":7243.264,"text":"另外美國提出了一個航行自由的一個計畫希望能夠協助但這計畫到底怎麼落實現在也沒有辦法做到進一步的證實但是我們也希望經過美國的這個計畫我們跟美方還有我們國內的航商三方跟我們交通部還有外交部"},{"start":7243.829,"end":7262.424,"text":"取得共同的聯繫掌握第一個時間的訊息希望能夠協助他們所以院長意思是我們只能看美國的因應方案我們才能對我們的海運界因為有幾百艘船都在各國都有那你有什麼好的方法因為現在我們現在講海運對不對其實空運也一樣"},{"start":7263.385,"end":7277.685,"text":"油價一漲航空公司第一件事是什麼?減班跟停飛那請問也是一樣交通部有沒有掌握現在整體運輸市場的變化那目前運輸業實際上受到衝擊程度為何補貼有沒有準備好那我們票價會不會漲?"},{"start":7279.571,"end":7305.822,"text":"我們從2月28號有充分掌握中東地區所有機場開放的情形那現在已經大部分全部或是局部的開放了我講的不是中東機場我講的是因為油價的原因所以全球的空運尤其是空運不用講民航就是講空運的這個價格一定會大漲那因為油價大漲的原因是不是因為這樣去做減班跟停飛"},{"start":7306.542,"end":7326.386,"text":"那我想請問這方面的補貼準備好了沒有票價會不會漲民航票價會不會漲那針對整個航空界不管是民航還是空運有沒有受到影響請市長來說明我先說明我們每個禮拜都會對中東衝突的民生專案進行檢討那當中都有提到這個部分請市長來說明"},{"start":7326.952,"end":7342.062,"text":"是 我跟委員做一個說明我跟委員特別提到的航空的這個票價的這個問題那這部分剛才院長也特別提到行政院每個月大概都有就這個召開相關的因應的一個會議"},{"start":7342.922,"end":7363.069,"text":"在那個因應的會議裡頭原則上一個大原則就是先讓請中油先來吸收然後相關的這個油價上漲的部分由政府來編列相關的預算來加以支持所以原則上在國內的航空的票價上是維持不漲的"},{"start":7363.809,"end":7385.961,"text":"因為我聽到一個消息就是說有些國家好像日本跟泰國他們已經針對說譬如說我們的華航還是長榮還是新宇飛到他們的機場他們是除非你自己帶油在那邊加不然他是不讓你在當地機場加油的那請問因為他們說現在油對他們來講是已經是所謂的國家戰略物資"},{"start":7387.822,"end":7399.891,"text":"我們中華民國在目前的狀況上面是不是有一樣的因應措施我們有沒有把我們的燃料當作一種國家戰略物資來去做儲存還是我們有沒有這條線的存在呢"},{"start":7403.947,"end":7417.635,"text":"尤其是國際航空燃油的這一部分,國際航空是有掌握的,所以目前對於國際航空加油這件事情還不是很大的一個問題。"},{"start":7419.296,"end":7444.455,"text":"我會期待就是說因為其他國家已經在做我們有注意到這樣的問題未來可能這件事情不是只是注意到可能要開始準備因為我們真的不知道赫普茲海峽什麼時候開那變成說油價對於我們對於全球的國家來講現在被他卡在那邊之後這個如果我們不去預先去先前去做一個部署的話其實會很傷那其實我不管講到海運也好還是空運也好"},{"start":7445.936,"end":7460.547,"text":"現在海運空運的這個擁捨這些塞車已經都不是未來的問題是現在我們就面臨到的而且實質上民眾現在就承受到這個壓力那我們政府上面有數據要拿出來有備用方案要拿出來"},{"start":7461.007,"end":7486.999,"text":"有劇本要跟我們講清楚因為現在我在問這個不是因為我個人的關心而已而是所有的航空界運輸業都在關心這個事情那我講幾個國際案例好了我們最近這幾年有關疫情的時候其實美國就直接在疫情的時候港口大塞車那他們直接怎麼處理直接讓洛杉磯港24小時運作聯邦政府出面協調整個物流鏈中央出手他們中央出手效率就來"},{"start":7487.659,"end":7504.474,"text":"在日本呢他們針對能源價格波動他們政府直接補貼運輸業燃料成本先穩住票價我想我們現在也在做一樣的事情穩住民生再顧市場那新加坡更乾脆那新加坡我知道他們現在港口還在大塞車甚至每一個航班每一個"},{"start":7507.116,"end":7534.462,"text":"海運的航班都已經延遲到10天甚至是20天的那個時間所以這一點來講新加坡他們之前已經長期建立所謂的戰略儲備智慧物流系統任何風吹草動他們都有及時的數據他們是提前先準備不是事後再反映那我想請問說針對這現代的困境我們的資料在哪裡機制在哪裡準備在哪裡我再一次跟委員說明剛剛次長有一個說明這個應該恐怖我們是每週"},{"start":7535.609,"end":7558.261,"text":"每週禮拜一早上都會進行中通充足的民生的專案的會議由外交部交通部經濟部衛福部農業部法務部以及公平會依序報告所面臨的一些問題他們解決的方式那從一開始包括塑膠原料不足塑膠袋不足等等一直到"},{"start":7559.586,"end":7587.792,"text":"對中油這個油氣的掌握都依序在進行已經連續六個禮拜連續六個禮拜中油的油價已經沒有調整由中油吸收的已經到達141億以上那這個還會持續我們希望暫時趕快的結束但是他一定會持續一段時間所以我已經要求我們對油對氣的掌握不只是現在到五六七八月沒有問題要進行到今年的第四季"},{"start":7588.232,"end":7613.4,"text":"提前做好部署做好全面的需求我們每個禮拜都有這樣的數據院長剛剛提的是說至少到今年八月到目前為止我要求到第四季都要做好部署那目前是到八月嘛到八月應該有跟天然氣都沒問題七月八月雖然不是百分之百但是我們已經有相當的這個比例已經完成了那七月我記得已經接近百分之八九十了八月目前還在進行當中那我要求進行到第四季"},{"start":7613.72,"end":7630.317,"text":"要全面的安全的存量跟能夠有多少的郵寄能夠掌握到各種船要進來 數量 完全掌握本席對於院長 因為跟我們講這件事大概給予高度的肯定因為這件事全國都在聽因為這件事蠻重要的我們每個禮拜一都有公開的訊息開出來因為我們這件事情全國民眾都要聽"},{"start":7638.004,"end":7660.416,"text":"一般的訊息管道出來跟院長口中講出來是不一樣的那我們期待說院長今天講出來的讓民眾安心但是我們還是希望說能夠都到位政府會持續關注跟努力絕對不讓民生發生這種恐慌之雨再來院長本席是基隆選區的立委那所以說本席又曾經在基隆港服務過所以本席對基隆港一向都是特別關心"},{"start":7661.056,"end":7676.912,"text":"因為基隆港是全世界難得的天然糧港但是基隆市的腹地又特別少所以我們貨運基本上來講要做精緻貨運要把它精緻化把它功能最大化所以我就想講說"},{"start":7678.833,"end":7695.163,"text":"應該是15年前的政策吧15、16年前的政策所謂東克西貨這個政策還在嗎那如果有我們西岸的土地規劃在哪裡到底怎麼規劃就是這個東岸跟西岸東岸是客運西岸是貨運東克西貨這個政策還在嗎"},{"start":7699.537,"end":7719.45,"text":"我想會加進來是郵輪啦郵輪會增加一些啦增加一些郵輪來靠港但是貨運的部分因為有台北港他的吞吐量越來越大但是我知道要把基隆的貨運全部的讓他移到台北港那是不可能的因為這裡還有很多的產業所以"},{"start":7720.399,"end":7744.845,"text":"而貨運在這裡要維持基本的量能讓我們增加的是比較更高品質的觀光郵輪能夠進到基隆港來改變整個基隆港的這個風貌老師講因為我對這件事蠻關心的就是說現在院長剛剛講到郵輪郵輪現在三艘就滿了三艘東岸就已經全部停滿而且甚至說要靠到西岸去所以我們知道空間是嚴重不足的"},{"start":7745.245,"end":7771.95,"text":"那我們現在最精華的地在幹嘛在放雜物我講的是基隆港C6碼頭那我想老實講我就直接問這其實我是覺得說這跟執行力有很大的關係因為我們知道C4到C6的碼頭的旅運複合商業大樓108年說要招商那2021年說招商說明會很順利那2026年到目前為止還在準備中"},{"start":7773.376,"end":7798.132,"text":"老實講我會覺得說哪裡很可惜因為高雄港的那個旅運大樓當初我在港公司任職的時候說高雄港那個弧度像一隻鯨魚一樣的高雄港比較難蓋要花比較多錢但它已經落成好幾年了但基隆港現在西四到西六碼頭還是一片空那我想請問這個到底招商卡在哪裡是沒有這個市場嗎還是"},{"start":7800.589,"end":7800.629,"text":"是這樣子"},{"start":7819.153,"end":7848.622,"text":"次長回答所以我希望部長今天到這邊因為這對我來講很重要那次長我相信有一定的權限代表但是請次長回答吧是啊我想我跟委員盡可能的一個說明那如果有不足的部分我再另外準備書面的資料來跟委員做詳細的一個說明原則上吉隆港的一個發展也是委員特別提到的朝向著東岸客運西岸貨運的方向這樣的一個偵測目前仍然在持續的執行中所以現在還在多克修還在還在執行的中"},{"start":7849.182,"end":7869.265,"text":"至於講到說那個西岸的貨運碼頭有關類似像高雄港的遊客中心這樣的一個規劃招商目前是正在洽詢有意願的業者來投資有沒有明確的時間表"},{"start":7870.325,"end":7894.622,"text":"因為這點很重要我記得那個案子當初差一點成形的時間是2013年那時候本席還在基隆港服務那到現在已經過了13年那想請問這個旅運大樓港務公司一天到晚跟我講旅運大樓那請問現在怎麼樣 有沒有時間表"},{"start":7895.842,"end":7911.434,"text":"我跟委員報告原則上我們也很急所以目前正在洽詢相關的業者有意願的業者來做相關的投資那這一部分我們會盡速來把這樣的一個投資案主責單位還是港澳公司嗎"},{"start":7912.89,"end":7927.471,"text":"主責單位還是稿務公司?稿務公司那我就期待說之後會後提供確切時間表跟相關資料然後主責單位我會好好問清楚那再來我想問因為我們剛講東客西貨這個政策如果還在執行的話"},{"start":7928.112,"end":7947.113,"text":"西岸的貨運剛剛院長你也講了說希望能夠保持一定的量甚至如果能夠增加但是增加的話台北港可能拿一些其他的量過去本身基隆港本席身為基隆的立法委員我們當然希望基隆的工作機會留在基隆不是跑到台北港去早上4點"},{"start":7948.905,"end":7963.144,"text":"搭車去台北港然後再塞車回來院長同情的人很累啊所以說這一點來講我也想問說因為最近這個海運快遞專區請問院長是不是支持他繼續擴大在基隆"},{"start":7964.67,"end":7987.357,"text":"留在基隆因為這樣講那個海運快易專區目前在基隆港基隆港現在規劃四條線已經有三條在正式營運了尤其是說現在電商、載經濟、化淨物流的需求是越來越高的而且這些貨物都是價值高的貨物在基隆一方面這個對我們基隆有兩條高速公路基隆有接兩條高速公路"},{"start":7987.737,"end":8008.353,"text":"一高跟三高都在基隆可以都可以到了基隆所以基隆的貨運到北部至少到新竹之前都是最快最方便的所以海運快遞專區在基隆能夠生根發芽甚至把它茁壯不是對基隆港對我基隆人來好我們基隆會因為這樣多一些工作機會不用到台北"},{"start":8008.993,"end":8031.728,"text":"去擠上班可是這樣來做的時候也會把整個國家的整個物流鏈的速度加快那我想請問就是說是否能夠擴大海運快遞的專區的能量跟支線呢海運快遞應該也是現在一個這個時代一個生活上跟產業上需要的一個運送的方式跟交易的行為那如果在"},{"start":8032.669,"end":8054.508,"text":"這個地方的處理量能上沒有問題我們當然希望能夠產業發展但是快遞這個部分我們更期待的是要增加他整個入關的安全上的一些必要的一些保障那所以必須要有這些設置那這些設置如果在區域的港區裡面都能夠完成的話那麼能夠發展地方的這個業務的特色那應該是"},{"start":8056.71,"end":8074.683,"text":"我們交通單位會來跟地方政府還有港務局一起來合作的謝謝院長有正面的回應因為這不只是物流我剛剛講過是我基隆人的工作機會我多留一個基隆人在基隆工作我覺得多一個家庭在基隆加盟就好了那這樣子做的話台北現在我等一下會談到的東西就是有關國道客運的問題"},{"start":8076.204,"end":8097.83,"text":"如果實質上增加基隆人在地的就業機會讓基隆人留在基隆上班這是最實際的發展基隆的方式那再來我就必須要聊到我想市長我以前在交通委員會的時候我們常在聊那我跟部長也時常在聯絡所以我今天蠻期待看到部長的我知道部長在忙但是我是很期待因為這個國道客運的問題啊其實有點麻煩"},{"start":8098.67,"end":8128.29,"text":"因為老實說現在因為生活方式的關係所以大家如果不搭捷運就自己開車變成是北積北逃那我們都一直聽到說交通部現在在推路網優化聽起來很好聽但是民眾很害怕因為害怕是什麼呢優化變驚險驚險變不見所以我現在問幾個具體的問題中短程的國道客運路線整併何時啟動整體的騎乘是什麼北積北逃的評估報告出來了沒有"},{"start":8130.492,"end":8149.253,"text":"我想跟委員報告有關這個北極北逃或中短途的目前真是由公路局相關的單位在做相關的研議那研議完了以後呢會盡速的找業者來開會那就後續的入網如何整併如何優化大家來共同來討論"},{"start":8150.354,"end":8176.372,"text":"因為本期進來立法院之後我曾經不只在第一會期我就請交通部協助曾經對他們的運價補貼做出調漲這樣是符合不只是這樣子雖然表面上是對業者方便實質上是能夠多開班次對我基隆人能夠比較方便一點可是目前來講以基隆10萬通勤人口請問整併入網之後應該是更方便呢還是應該更難等呢"},{"start":8177.132,"end":8193.487,"text":"整併完了以後應該是說更符合當地基隆市民通勤的需求而不是說整併了以後就變成減班應該不是朝這個方向來規劃那我們現在講到就講到深水區有關國道客運的深水區現在最大的問題從來都不是路線而是沒有人開車"},{"start":8199.249,"end":8219.756,"text":"駕駛、護駕、護理師跟駕駛都是現在認為是超級血汗工作那我想請問有沒有具體招募方案有沒有流財機制在哪裡國道客運司機現在越來越少那請問我們交通部有什麼作為如果連人力問題都無法解決的話再好的路網規劃最後面都只會停在紙上"},{"start":8220.899,"end":8246.547,"text":"我跟委員報告有關委員特別提到有關大客車的人力的部分公路總局有一個徵才的一個方案那一個方案目前他是一定期間的一個來一報交通部來核定交通部現在一個指示就是說既然客運的司機是缺工的所以我們希望他們常態性的辦理所以剛才委員特別提到的不管是在來受訓的時候"},{"start":8247.507,"end":8260.055,"text":"相關的一定的薪資的補貼或者是9任有留財的獎金等等的都在這個方案裡面有所規劃我們的了解目前透過這個方案進來的駕駛人有一定的數量我就必須把這件事點明了"},{"start":8260.748,"end":8288.032,"text":"我們從制度面提出一個更基本的問題目前據我所知財政比較優渥的縣市像是台北新竹市區公車補助是一萬四一個車司機補助一萬四到兩萬一個月國道客運多少只有四千所以結果是什麼呢結果是司機全部都往補貼高的縣市跑國道客運長期缺司機最後面就是這些跨縣市的通勤族受害那因為財政弱勢的縣市像我基隆市沒有餘裕去提出"},{"start":8289.198,"end":8318.671,"text":"更吸引司機的補貼政策導致司機全部都跑去比較補貼比較多的縣市造成市場嚴重失衡部長 院長 這不是市場問題這是制度的設計問題我在這邊直接建議中央做三件事第一件事 統一駕駛的補貼制度第二件事 避免人力集中第三件事 確保跨縣市的運輸穩定院長 桃園到台北 基隆到台北"},{"start":8319.251,"end":8337.928,"text":"這個高速公路多塞我想院長絕對都知道部長一定知道院長絕對更知道那如果多一點人國道客運的班次如果多一點多一點人當國道客運的話我們是不是針對這個塞車就可以有比較有效的解決呢我必須要提醒我們交通部這次的優化不能變成所謂的變相削減因為最後如果是"},{"start":8339.122,"end":8362.742,"text":"減班、砍路線、通勤品質下降那這個路網優化的政策不是沒有優化這是讓第一線的民眾承擔成本最後被受害還是用通勤組基隆通勤組有多少人市長知道嗎基隆36萬人有多少人通勤組你知道嗎11萬將近三分之一的基隆市人口天天早上就在那邊塞車天天晚上回去塞車桃園也有10萬"},{"start":8365.168,"end":8388.227,"text":"破切的問題當然以布來講這是Piece of cake一罐小蛋糕但是事實上來講就是對通勤的那個人來講這很重要11萬人就是11萬個家庭院長這個其實很重要的是委員所提的就是我們大宗運輸的功能跟他的任務的目標所以為了要達到這個功能"},{"start":8390.249,"end":8410.994,"text":"這個車輛 車輛宿 駕駛員都必須要有一個從長的規劃那區域之間如果造成這種因為財政能力的不平均造成他都容易吸引的話那對於這些財政能力比較差的我想我們能夠共同計畫來做一個區域合理駕駛人薪資的一個合理的規劃看能不能從區域裡面來做一個平衡"},{"start":8411.494,"end":8434.329,"text":"但這個有賴各地方政府能夠有共同的想法才可以我覺得這個台北市跟基隆市要把它拉到一起我認為台北市也不見得願意啊因為它這樣可以遭到很多人所以我希望台北市政府能夠以大代小發揮這種精神至少是個方向啦我覺得這個是很重要的事情然後我在最後剩下一點時間我也來談那個我認為非常重要的事情"},{"start":8435.449,"end":8456.337,"text":"我剛剛講過基隆港為什麼一直講西四西六荒廢很可惜因為基隆真的沒有地院長也去過基隆好幾次市長也去過基隆好幾次我講一些比較現實的事情基隆不是不想發展是沒地方發展把八成到九成的山坡地所有交通都集在市中心所以"},{"start":8457.017,"end":8479.032,"text":"本席我記得在第二會期的時候我有提出來從七堵到基隆的鐵路地下化這核心價值不是在於說交通改善而是說我們現在看到的基隆河谷廊帶整體計畫發展捷運路線跟周邊建設的發展的土地都需要發展的建設都需要土地所以我們更需要說如果可以從七堵"},{"start":8479.733,"end":8500.572,"text":"開始鐵路地下化一路直接到基隆火車站釋放被鐵路切割跟佔用的都市廊帶空間讓產業進駐 交通便捷我們基隆代兼啦所以說像我知道 我很羨慕我也羨慕宜蘭宜蘭已經核定高架化那同樣問題我也想請教院長說基隆為什麼不能呢"},{"start":8502.266,"end":8523.224,"text":"基隆到七堵的地下化不太可能由地方自己負擔一定需要中央支持那院長也去過基隆基隆中間那一塊其實基隆的地最精華的地都是鐵軌如果能把鐵軌地下化把這邊這個基地把它釋放出來的時候基隆市的都跟各方面要讓基隆市變得跟橫濱一樣漂亮那是很有機會的"},{"start":8525.211,"end":8553.448,"text":"所以說這一點來講我想誠懇請教院長行政院是否願意支持基隆到七堵鐵路地下化後續的推動報告委員中央政府都很樂見地方依照市政的藍圖交通的需求再評估未來興建財政的規劃跟分配提出一個可行性的評估出來那麼再送送央來做審查好 那至少我蠻肯定院長對於這件事有一個正面的回答"},{"start":8554.705,"end":8571.091,"text":"這件事對於基隆不是只有交通不只是交通包括整個都市發展整個產業發展然後最後面我在這邊講到只剩下兩分鐘62號加到國三這個工程其實我覺得蠻重要因為我們知道62號即將延伸到萬里"},{"start":8572.631,"end":8597.267,"text":"那其實這邊在62號如果說有一條引道能夠接北上到國三的話這個其實不是大工程但效果非常大現在北海岸觀光一來禮拜六禮拜天甚至有一次市長好像去考察的時候也就直接塞在基金路上面了現在北海岸觀光一來基金就要到直接癱瘓那我講一句比較生活化的人還沒有到海邊心情就壞了"},{"start":8600.029,"end":8617.225,"text":"所以說62號延伸到萬里的規劃什麼時候做有沒有具體的時程如果有的話拜託這條引道62跟國三直接接上去的引道可以直接拯救大五輪三萬居民的日常"},{"start":8618.646,"end":8635.547,"text":"我希望中央可以盡快推動然後不要讓地方問題一直卡著每天早上上班都很辛苦當初大五輪區大五輪那個區塊都市規劃的時候可能不到6000人現在3萬人住在那邊報告委員這個2024年陳建仁院長的時候就已經核定了"},{"start":8636.519,"end":8656.445,"text":"延長到萬里道金山的可行性62延長到萬里道金山的可行性這已經請交通部在做這個綜合規劃當中那您說的大概就這一段嘛對那如果可以的話就是62號跟三高其實他們沒有直接接上來那有一個新的只要只要只要有一條引道從62號跟三高直接接上來的話"},{"start":8657.782,"end":8685.336,"text":"在大五輪那三萬人口上班也比較方便如果從台北到萬里去觀光的人那個是重新的一個路段我跟委員報告原則上台六十二延伸到萬里的這個剛才院長特別提到可行性也已經核定了原則上就是從國三馬東系統交流到那裡插出所以我不知道的委員剛才講說連接"},{"start":8708.1,"end":8715.882,"text":"好好 謝謝謝謝林委員 謝謝卓院長下一位我們請蔡易宇委員質詢"},{"start":8718,"end":8726.276,"text":"報告院會現在在議場二樓旁請起的是台北市立成功高中第二批的同學我們歡迎他們到立法院參訪"},{"start":8744.788,"end":8751.975,"text":"謝謝主席那我們是不是有請院長以及交通部次長好 請卓院長 交通部次長備詢蔡委員好院長好"},{"start":8766.987,"end":8794.847,"text":"院長那想跟院長來針對嘉義未來的一個交通狀況那跟院長來做一個討論那首先就是也是要先感謝院長因為嘉義科學園區的二期在院長的協助之下也順利的環評通過那大概接下來台積電應該會在嘉義持續的針對所謂先進封裝就是COAS廠"},{"start":8795.808,"end":8801.082,"text":"會持續來興建所以未來這是在我們的從高鐵站"},{"start":8801.587,"end":8826.104,"text":"到嘉義科學園區那在高鐵的周邊也在我們這一個這個鐵道局的招商的努力之下那華泰明秉城會在高鐵的旁邊那會興建這一個大型的Outlet那這個Outlet它不是一個建築物它是仿造比較美式的就是那一種很大的平面的那一種Outlet所以"},{"start":8826.844,"end":8841.169,"text":"我可以想像等到台積電的建廠都已經順利來生產之後以及華泰民品城大概在兩年後的冬天就可以順利來正式來開幕了"},{"start":8842.97,"end":8866.096,"text":"所以你可以想像未來從高鐵那到往故宮南院的方向中間就是科學園區也就是現在會有很多不管是台積電或是其他科技公司會在這裡進駐那往另外一側就是我們知道的就是華泰的Outlet就是在我們的地圖這一塊所以你看喔是未來隔天"},{"start":8869.977,"end":8891.012,"text":"科學園區跟華泰的這個Outlet未來這裡一定會有很多的人口會有這麼多人你這麼多人中間有遊客也有上班族也有我們縣政府嘉義縣政府也在旁邊也有我們縣政府必須要去上班的員工然後旁邊還有這個長庚醫院"},{"start":8895.255,"end":8920.374,"text":"所以你看我們嘉義事實上是把很多的重心都放在這裡就是不管是站在醫療也好 站在整個科技產業站在我們的行政中心以及未來的消費中心所以這個地方未來要面對的就是它的交通流量一定會非常的大那以現在我們都可以感受得到如果我們走台37線也就是高鐵的橋下道路"},{"start":8921.535,"end":8934.085,"text":"現在看起來這條台37線它的車流量已經是過往的好幾倍了所以已經開始發現說我們在這裡的交通的量能已經有感受到會不夠"},{"start":8935.439,"end":8963.635,"text":"所以我想要跟院長來做一個建議就是說有沒有可能我們現在嘉義急迫的需求就是台82線它可能就是東西向快速道路它要有一條新的支線那可以讓它直接連到高鐵站甚至可以直接再往北一點就是直接到嘉義科學園區那為什麼我們會說必須要到嘉義科學園區呢"},{"start":8964.395,"end":8988.245,"text":"因為以竹科跟南科的經驗竹科跟南科他們對外都是有直接一個連接的道路就是高架連接的道路就直接到科學園區像竹科這邊我們就有列出來他們到科學園區從例行路那裡就有一條高架道路那以南科而言他們一樣有一個北環道的快速道路"},{"start":8989.266,"end":9002.366,"text":"原區的員工可以透過高架道路那直接連到82線東西向快速道路迅速的把這樣的一個車流量有一個疏解的一個效果"},{"start":9002.935,"end":9030.746,"text":"所以我想要把這些建議那看院長能不能支持我們因為現在整個嘉義正在發展這個回來發展的這個過程當然今天你台灣協助了很多但是我們預見到未來已經有這樣的一個需求的存在所以我們必須要預作準備那是不是院長可以台灣支持這樣的一個連接的一個道路好 非常謝謝嘉義對整個團隊的合作過去這幾年已經把嘉義從一個農業的大縣"},{"start":9032.318,"end":9057.584,"text":"再加上科學園區未來他必定是一個農業科技大線而且他有非常好的觀光資源再加上剛剛你說的這種大型的商場又會是一個商業活動頻繁的地方所以我們認為把交通路線能夠事先做好規劃當然是必要的而且未來科學園區的需求整個貨運的吞吐量也會非常的大所以這個部分也必須要完成但是就是說這個台82線連接嘉義車站"},{"start":9061.663,"end":9083.328,"text":"加一高鐵站這個路線他採用什麼方式是橋下的或是用其他的方式可能要請交通部再做詳細的規劃雖然他目前也有一些像路草交流道等等的通行但如果這個能夠橋下的部分做合理的規劃應該會增加交通量也更為舒暢這個部分請交通部再就這個部分來做規劃"},{"start":9084.756,"end":9089.443,"text":"所以我聽院長這樣說 你對我們這樣很清楚你知道路上有很多路道事實上現在都開始車輛都開始有回堵的狀態了所以站在時間上我們真的會擔心說家科"},{"start":9098.223,"end":9126.284,"text":"一旦正式燈起來就是開始上班後那些交通量真的會增加很多吳議員補充一點就好吳議員特別提到說嘉義科學園區的連外的交通其實在那裡頭除了剛才講的高鐵橋下的台37往台南沿的這一個部分我們也正在做研究另外科學園區連外的交通我們會跟相關單位再來討論"},{"start":9127.659,"end":9153.648,"text":"對於年外是不是有支線的可行我們一起來談談市長因為是這樣我們現在高鐵的台37線橋下道路就是要從鹿草把它直接灌到南科所以第一期可能會做新營這一段這個沒有問題因為這個會把南科跟加科串聯起來但是我們現在看到的這個未來有可能會建的所在是在加科到高鐵這段澳內的加科高鐵"},{"start":9154.868,"end":9179.228,"text":"因為這三個大廈廉車會所以這裡又有遊客又有三班族又有其他的需求的存在的話你沒有一條用高架路線一條貫圍個體貫圍家科的話那這個車流量想必是未來會沒有辦法消化的所以我們希望說就比照竹科比照南科直接有一條高架路段一條就可以接到家科去"},{"start":9179.875,"end":9204.706,"text":"好就這個嘉義科學園區連外的這個交通的問題我們來研究好那麻煩次長那我是希望說因為現在有台37線橋下的一個研究案這個是在大南方計畫裡面的很重要的一個案那有沒有可能把這樣跟家科周邊的道路的一個改善可以納入在這個台37線的這個整體評估也許這樣時間"},{"start":9206.407,"end":9229.314,"text":"你再用一個新的案不然會比較麻煩我們希望說這件事要快好 我們要納在那裡面一起討論好 就把它納在裡面一起來討論好 謝謝那接下來我還是要繼續講一個這個嘉義的另外一個就是我們嘉義的無人機的一個產業那我們也知道這幾年我們嘉義從我們翁章良縣長"},{"start":9230.154,"end":9248.32,"text":"那跟我們行政院這邊包括賴清德總統小美琴副總統那院長也都有到我們的無人機所謂太保的這一個這一個亞航這一個無人機的研發中心有多次來這邊去看整個無人機的產業那現在進駐在我們這一個"},{"start":9251.581,"end":9278.497,"text":"這一個無人機的研發的中心也已經超過了50家的無人機企業那未來整個無人機產業在嘉義的布局除了我們講鋪子太薄也就是現在的亞創中心之外在民雄的一個航太基地這個是由中科院來主導未來希望說整個無人機的生產可以以民雄的航太基地來做中心"},{"start":9279.057,"end":9291.45,"text":"那還有就是所謂無人機的試飛試飛的基地勒那可能就是會放在水上機場水上機場 那是金額的報酬我們現在當然第一勒 我們很高興這次我們的特別預算針對這一個所謂無人機的一個飛鴻供應鏈"},{"start":9300.7,"end":9323.067,"text":"甚至包括我們這次所編列商購跟偽製的都被藍白國民黨跟民眾黨帶我們抬起砍了將近四千億超過四千億的一個預算這個對我們未來整個嘉義在做無人機的布局可以說是一個重傷害所以這件事情讓我們嘉義我們覺得未來整個無人機因為整個無人機發展當然帶動嘉義整個產業的一個發展"},{"start":9330.149,"end":9358.088,"text":"這是一點 可是更重要的是國家 我們整個國防是需要這些無人機來強化我們的國防因為無人機是可以代替我們人民在戰場上保衛我們台灣這塊土地的啊所以院長 現在未來我們整個無人機的預算有沒有可能再用怎樣的方式來繼續強化整個無人機的投入呢是 謝謝蔡委員的支持"},{"start":9360.041,"end":9374.43,"text":"國防的特別預算跟特別條例三大部分其中現在被刪除沒有排列進去的這個就是國防相關產業自主發展的這個部分那其中最重要的當然就是無人機的產業"},{"start":9375.23,"end":9376.251,"text":"所以院長雖然這一次特別運算我們在"},{"start":9400.354,"end":9424.615,"text":"投入整個無人載具及反制系統這個三千三百五十億受到了他們這樣不討論都不討論的情況就會把我們刪除這件事讓我們吃得更好一碗那我相信院長剛剛講我們未來台灣無人機產業仍然是我們整個行政院很重要的一個國防產業的方向是國防相關產業不能放棄不能放棄嘛所以這部分我們是要繼續加強"},{"start":9426.437,"end":9451.67,"text":"那所以我還是講回到了剛剛我講的所謂嘉義無人機產業的佈局那我們中間就看到了一個就是未來的水上機場他就是要用作於中大型的飛車場域那所以水上機場在整個無人機的發展就扮演了一個很重要的一個角色就是他所謂飛車的一個跑道要借用水上機場那目前水上機場的構造呢他"},{"start":9453.069,"end":9467.619,"text":"他整個民航站在水上機場裡面站他的土地的比例大概只有一%所以民航站那裡很小而且他們也沒有幾乎是沒有自己可以這個"},{"start":9469.48,"end":9484.962,"text":"停機棚啦 要放飛機的地方就沒有所以這件事看起來就是說未來如果無人機 中大型的無人機它的試飛的基地在水上機場但是呢 它這裡沒土地可以讓我們這些無人機可以放置"},{"start":9485.642,"end":9506.257,"text":"可以有停機可以讓他放的地方你說這些畢竟這些無人機在飛行的時候他有一些是尾辦所以他把它進入到第四聯隊整個是國防部的一個空間也是不適合的所以有沒有可能基於我剛剛講的這樣的一個考量以目前"},{"start":9507.778,"end":9524.586,"text":"這個嘉義的民航站它就是在水上的龍點路也就是靠近水上的北回歸線地標的地方它是現在的民航站基本上在這裡單是軍用的空間就已經不足了所以我們希望是不是可以在整個機場的東側東側這裡我們偵測一個新的民航站"},{"start":9532.149,"end":9546.416,"text":"給一個新的西側這裡啦原本東側的仍然是保留現在它的定位在於西側這邊你看我把它用紅線框起來的全部都是台塘的土地"},{"start":9547.373,"end":9575.499,"text":"這裡都是台湯的土地現在都要進去吃然後這樣的一個西側這裡你做一個新的民航站那裡有很大的空間可以做未來不管是無人載具中大型無人機的停機棚或者是我們進一步有沒有可能去爭取到一些新的國際航線現在我們這個機場只有這個包機包機的國際包機用未來有沒有可能爭取到新的一個國際航線"},{"start":9577.479,"end":9599.215,"text":"都要看這個新的西側的民航站的一個地點他們一樣就是特惠高通車一樣是在這個機場的跑道所以不影響現在的機場跑道的狀況只是在西側增加一個新的空間這個空間就可以把軍用的跟民用的做一個分流"},{"start":9599.775,"end":9617.18,"text":"然後這一個新的民航站有一個最大的好處是你看他就在中山高就在一高就在一高的旁邊離一高大概只有兩分鐘然後到高鐵站到高鐵站差不多只有七分鐘十分鐘不用搞"},{"start":9617.72,"end":9636.009,"text":"所以未來這一個民航站它會變成是一個距離高鐵全台灣距離高鐵最近的一個民航站這樣我們整個水上機場它對於地方的整個它的價值會完全被展現出來院長能夠支持我們未來朝向這樣的方向一起來努力嗎"},{"start":9638.857,"end":9666.705,"text":"這個機場的規劃也配合整個未來縣政的發展我們分兩個部分東側這個部分2027到2029年當中他會先完成新建的停車場以及新的航廈工程然後再拆除現有的航廈但是還是會保留這個東側那西側西側這個部分因為他牽涉到土地徵收還有跟軍方協調還有內部的規劃這個還要再重新的計這個規劃下去我請交通部跟國防部能夠去談未來"},{"start":9667.125,"end":9668.665,"text":"好 謝謝蔡委員 謝謝卓議長下一位請陳雪生委員質詢"},{"start":9704.568,"end":9709.291,"text":"好謝謝主席是不是請卓院長請卓院長開始陳委員好卓院長很累喔不會你可以坐著沒關係不敢不敢謝謝那個本席啊昨天在交通委員會刪了交通部預算50億"},{"start":9734.571,"end":9760.609,"text":"大概陳部長不爽,今天就不來了對不對?不是啦,不會這樣子不來,但是確實太多了啦喔這樣喔?不會他不爽就不來了他今天是因為重要的公務,跟委員見諒我以為他對我不爽不會不會今天跟你討論兩個議題齁大概第一個是馬祖大橋,第二個是馬祖光光"},{"start":9762.298,"end":9786.309,"text":"那馬祖大橋的部分我昨天看這兩天看到淡江大橋通車我很高興跟金門大橋通車我也很高興我唯一悲傷的是馬祖大橋沒有通車這個跟院長報告最近國內的一些重大的橋樑的工程你看淡江大橋花了221億"},{"start":9790.02,"end":9812.891,"text":"新營大橋是楊耀委員提出來300億澎湖的二橋金門大橋花了96億但以前施工經費比較少一點桃園鐵路地下化工程要1047億現在可能還要追加了因為供料都漲了台南的高鐵也要293億"},{"start":9815.765,"end":9842.665,"text":"嘉義鐵路高架化大概507億我講這些就是說離島偏鄉馬祖大橋立案到今天的一個啟程我在這邊跟院長說明106年蔡前總統列寧馬祖巡視了南美大橋的預定地他也首肯所以進入了一個可行性的評估"},{"start":9845.95,"end":9873.317,"text":"107年我們賴總統時任行政院院長那時候我跟現任的縣長王宗明跑到行政院去為什麼呢因為下面有一堆很多人意見寫了一大堆我那時候找古拉斯發言人院長那時候在看院報院會還請他出來他後來就找張宇人政委把他塗掉因為想法看法都不一樣"},{"start":9874.896,"end":9893.85,"text":"塗掉以後他就把它批了先做這個綜合計畫綜合規劃111年做了三四年時間由市區那邊由我們公路總局委託市區做了三四年把它做出來了好111年112年開始了那113年給它送到那個英國"},{"start":9903.871,"end":9931.137,"text":"英國那邊去做評估經費從一百億、兩百億、三百億一直往上加我最近看了那個三接三接工程有沒有很像說那個世襲把它服編我一直在懷疑一百億、兩百億、三百億我們的馬祖代表是不是也服編了但預算編多一點的話將來不用追加啦這是好意"},{"start":9932.537,"end":9956.209,"text":"那如果是這樣子的話能不能把它降低一點嘛是不是這沒有伏鞭啦 這個三接那個是核實在算那有一些報導但是後來都有查證過沒關係沒關係 院長我不是工程專業所以我想相信專業啦那這個案子一直從106年到現在在行政院秘書長那邊國發會那邊轉來轉去轉來轉去一直講說"},{"start":9961.957,"end":9985.88,"text":"以前蘇貞昌院長講說蔡總統的時候經費不是問題啊馬祖大家做的比金門大家更好因為我聽了很高興好幾次跟蔡前總統在聚會我碰他他說不是蓋好了嗎其實還沒有所以這個案子一直拖拖了八年你看他整個騎乘"},{"start":9987.677,"end":10016.801,"text":"已經從115年原來是系社應該完成到現在整個延宕了那也有學者專家講說跟北竿機場的修建有必要性的關係沒有關係啊你北竿機場把它擴建了擴建的目的是什麼希望擴建馬祖一座機場就好了嘛幹什麼要兩座機場呢那南竿機場已經沒辦法再延長了也沒辦法再拓寬了"},{"start":10018.875,"end":10047.134,"text":"這沒辦法啊所以你北竿機場完了以後你南竿機場是不是要關閉南竿機場關閉那你沒有這個橋樑去走的話那南竿的老百姓要跑到北竿坐飛機欸這裡面是十年欸八年到十年欸這個誰受得了啊是不是所以沒有做這個馬祖大橋沒有完成齁你說要把南竿機場關閉那是可行性是很低的"},{"start":10048.018,"end":10077.368,"text":"很低的所以我要請院長再了解那其實這個工程的經費不用那麼高世新考量什麼勒世新跟民航局考量到本來用協章橋那用協章橋太高他是希望把馬祖北竿機場啊能夠安全降落所以那個協章橋會擋到他的航道所以把它修低了修低工程經費就要比較高一點"},{"start":10078.843,"end":10092.437,"text":"所以我拜託院長我跟你講這個大橋的看法院長你能不能表達一下你的意見其實我很敬佩委員為這個大橋多次的"},{"start":10094.605,"end":10118.716,"text":"提出各種的建議跟要求政府來貫徹這個事情那我也知道南北竿兩個機場目前它存在著相當大的交通運輸的功能那建大橋的目的就是在縮短南北竿之間兩個島嶼之間的交通需求所以如果有這個大橋那就不必要有兩個機場"},{"start":10120.137,"end":10132.725,"text":"如果有存在兩個機場那個這大小的這個必要性就考量所以在112年的6月13號行政院是請交通部就北竿機場機場完成改善之後南竿機場"},{"start":10134.127,"end":10159.766,"text":"他要重新評估他的存廢以及興建馬祖大橋的必要性這是現在手上最近一次的就是112年6月這個評估南竿機場的存廢以及馬祖大橋的興建的必要性是在北竿機場完成他整個改善工程之後那現在就停留在這個地方那問題是現在好像這個"},{"start":10161.924,"end":10181.681,"text":"縣政府方面就這個橋是不是有進一步的動作進一步的規劃目前都還是停滯的所以我也沒有辦法再做往前推任何部分的所以請委員是不是了解請縣政府在這個時候對興建這個橋有沒有一個更進一步的一個規劃的出現前兩個禮拜到馬祖去"},{"start":10186.519,"end":10214.85,"text":"你應該知道馬祖地區縣長、議長跟學生之間在政治整個的互動我們意見是一致的但是程序沒有進行啊不能只講意見程序要進行程序需要八年嗎?程序需要八年的時間嗎?不是,是縣政府目前坐下來可以討論嘛你找縣政府啊,你找縣政府來討論啊我們在會議上一個鐘頭就解決啦有什麼那麼困難要公文來了公文去"},{"start":10216.209,"end":10243.297,"text":"一直在那邊扯扯了八年然後我們張景生前政委員還發表文章他起先跟我講什麼他說那邊做吊橋從南竿做吊橋到北竿橋就好了幹什麼做這個馬祖大橋他的言論我覺得很奇怪你知道嗎我聽不下去他說馬祖沒幾個人車輛可能少之又少"},{"start":10246.016,"end":10273.908,"text":"這個橋做起來這個機場做起來不是馬祖人獨享這個橋做起來是我們國人同胞全世界人民我們共享的是不是不是馬祖人在用而已所以這個觀念跟想法院長是不是因為我們人少不是地理環境的問題我們對離島都有特別的建設條例怎麼會因為人多人少"},{"start":10275.237,"end":10289.959,"text":"還是黨派不同不是選擇加入民進黨可能你這個馬上就OK現在要各縣地方去黨派不同的縣市比較多但是我們都全力的來協助很像我加入民進黨這個大小馬上就核定"},{"start":10290.852,"end":10317.635,"text":"這兩回事雖然歡迎,但是不會直接影響,但是是歡迎對嘛,我在講總統也好,院長也好,以你的高度不過你下面的人你稍微節制一下是不是請交通部來談,現在的進度怎麼樣?交通部沒問題啦,因為市長我跟他太久的朋友了請市長說明一下嘛你看我在交通委員會15年了,多了我有刪過交通部一毛錢預算嗎?市長你回答我"},{"start":10318.516,"end":10347.164,"text":"我有刪過你一毛錢預算嗎?有沒有?我昨天為什麼要3051億?因為我不能提出增加預算的要求嘛但是我有刪減預算的權利啊所以我刪你50萬啊你覺得服氣還是不服氣?我們尊重大院委員合理的審查預算院長"},{"start":10348.359,"end":10371.304,"text":"你對陳雪真也好 對馬祖也好 對馬祖大強也好你釋出一點善意好不好明年預算還沒有編吧 今年預算還沒審你能不能釋出一點善意所以就現在的進度請說明一下我們照進度來走都可以他哪有那個權利啊不是 進度你那個老闆部長都跟我講 他有權利嗎他也沒辦法今天總統院長沒有講話的話 這個預算"},{"start":10373.925,"end":10388.767,"text":"總統跟我都很尊重專業的評估最後的結果我跟委員稍微說明一下相關的剛才委員特別提到說要跟縣政府來談所以公路局已經有一兩次的時間跟縣政府共同召開會議"},{"start":10389.488,"end":10414.294,"text":"而且其中一次很像委員還親自參加我們目前已經把這個因為公路局是接受縣政府的委託所以我們把行政院在112年的相關的意見做了一些盤點跟一些說明以後目前把這樣的計畫送給了縣政府這也就是剛才縣長特別提到的縣政府可能要就後續要如何辦理又後續"},{"start":10416.114,"end":10443.404,"text":"我們已經開過第二次會議了,我自己去的第三次會議能不能把它確定你這個月開我請縣長、議長通通來你要的話我請所有議員通通來我們一起來敲定好不好不是縣政府的問題嘛縣長的腦袋,我們老百姓腦袋、議員腦袋跟我的腦袋長得一模一樣只是你們的腦袋跟我長得不太一樣,院長"},{"start":10445.646,"end":10474.162,"text":"我不是說你的立場有問題或是總統立場有問題你下面的人你看馬祖這個大橋蓋了幹什麼一天通車幾步你這樣講的話那金門大橋為什麼要蓋澎湖大橋也不要蓋啊你的淡江大橋也不用蓋啊為什麼要蓋水電水跟電可以接著橋端下去還有網路電信這些資源是兩個島共享的光光可以互通是不是"},{"start":10474.98,"end":10501.206,"text":"地區產業可以帶動阿兵哥要打靶現在你看每個島都有靶場靶場國防部長提出來要八億十億一個靶場要八億十億嗎幾百個兵在打是不是比台北市警察局規模還小所以地區永續的發展這很重要的所以不要為了離島偏鄉希望院長重視"},{"start":10502.925,"end":10528.099,"text":"我們非常重視我接續剛剛次長說的話就是縣政府如果對於這個未來的綜合規劃他提出一個具體的內容的一個案子出來那裡面如果縱然提到他興建的這個計畫甚至一些期前的需要的經費他只要提在這個案子裡面計畫當中我們都可以來談行政院秘書長第一次回函 第二次回函 第三次回函"},{"start":10529.076,"end":10553.718,"text":"都在講什麼你現在我是分擔三分之一啊我行政院負擔三分之二啊三分之一 你叫我現在負擔十分之一啊你所有重大功能全部停擺連談都不用談了金門 馬祖 澎湖 偏鄉你根本就不用談重大建設是不是這樣這有一天是國家的重大建設嘛你像北開機場修建"},{"start":10554.881,"end":10583.758,"text":"你說要縣政府負擔錢用什麼錢所以只要縣政府提出一個綜合的規劃裡面縣政府談到經費甚至未來談到財務的結構分擔只要有這個案都可以進來談現在就是沒有這個案不能就是開會談而已必須要一個比方說我們說可行性評估綜合規劃 細部規劃要一步一步的走向世西報告說工程沒有問題施工沒有問題經費也沒有問題"},{"start":10584.52,"end":10609.995,"text":"那什麼有問題?就政治環境出了問題嗎?就陳允燊加入國民黨加錯了我跟你們講報告啊國民黨執政有沒有我們的北開機站也不可能核定啊我老是跟你講啊是民進黨蔡總統都把他批了現在馬祖大俠要國民黨去核定我也聽不下去啦那如果民進黨再不核定啊我跟你報告我只有請求共產黨幫我忙"},{"start":10612.178,"end":10639.054,"text":"這個得不償失我跟你講得不償失啊你會失去的更多那我是跟你委員報告你現在請縣政府提一個計畫出來這可能是一個綜合評估的計畫那就可以來討論現在沒有這個案院長你進入實質的計畫好不好要三四年欸要三四年欸你看那個國發會很可惡喔上次去英國英國去認證回來有沒有我向他要資料他說"},{"start":10640.117,"end":10657.798,"text":"不宜公開我奇怪了他不宜公開是國防機密嗎不是嘛為什麼不宜公開我還沒找國防會主委來他這兩天公文才回我院長你覺得這個有什麼不宜公開的"},{"start":10659.315,"end":10687.356,"text":"我不知道他不予公開的是哪一部分但一個地方建設不是說全部都不予公開我不曉得他指的是哪一部分不過國發會當然有他的這個機關組織的權限跟他的責職者他負責任的做好這個工作那我希望說是不是地方政府縣政府還是請交通部跟地方政府談一下地方政府提出一個什麼計畫出來那國發會現在在審的內容如果有修正的意見請地方政府來"},{"start":10688.197,"end":10715.012,"text":"按照審查意見來做修正那這個案就可以往下推那目前就停在這裡啊拜託您喔我想你再幹也是八年嘛對不對沒有啦沒有啦你再幹也是八年啦沒有不可能啦你看學生當了國大代表當了四年跟賴總統也是老同事跟我們本黨的主席也是老同事縣長當了八年立委當了十五年"},{"start":10716.175,"end":10724.801,"text":"我到現在連那個大橋連影子都沒有我對馬祖祥情情何以堪明年年底我要卸任了是不是"},{"start":10725.888,"end":10754.621,"text":"你就要跪著跟老百姓賠不是嗎我真的誠懇的跟委員說我們可以來討論出一個方式請地方政務來提出一個計畫出來那提計畫如何提這個內容地方政務要主導但是我們可以告訴地方政務只要有這個計畫出來我們就按照這個計畫的程序來進行院長以雪生這樣的一個精緻力對馬祖未來的願景應該是非常非常了解的我不敢講唯一的一個起碼是其中之一嘛"},{"start":10755.621,"end":10780.24,"text":"你起碼對我個人的精緻力的過程跟我提出的意見你們要給予重視啊你們要去討論嘛你看明天編預算啊沒有計畫現在這個還沒有一個我對你們那麼好我覺得要有點壓力給你們啦我是誠意跟委員說我們請交通部地方政府來談一個計畫出來地方政府要主導這個計畫應該是一個綜合規劃"},{"start":10783.822,"end":10812.654,"text":"我想委員可以的話我們來協助縣政府來提送一份那個應該是說縣政府院的公文回應的公文一個月以內把它完成可以嗎我們來協助什麼協助一個月以內完成有你召集沒問題我們縣長議長立委全員到齊議員統統來我們來協助縣政府出具一個公文香港人也統統來四個香港人一起來好不好因為時間的關係我現在跟你討論光光"},{"start":10814.093,"end":10841.954,"text":"我要發展馬祖觀光 院長你是到馬祖去對馬祖想法怎麼樣我覺得那我那天那句話我再重複它是一個非常難得的戰地文化很適合發展各種的觀光那我們一定全力的來發展觀光而且不會讓它成為一個戰場你看你到馬祖風景管理處斜對面看過去一個碉堡那是楊耀委員在那邊當兵的地方啊當兵當到沒有中風但是他痛風啊"},{"start":10843.237,"end":10872.344,"text":"很潮濕的地方現在變成觀光景點了是不是馬祖很漂亮嘛但是我跟你報告喔馬祖國產署跟軍備局佔領的土地多少你知道嗎佔領我們85%的土地百分比因為過去在佔地政務他有其必要我們佔地政務嘛所以很多族裔的土地還沒拿回來現在法律上還無法解套你現在怎麼發展觀光地產你要種個地瓜只能種地瓜種高粱啊"},{"start":10873.593,"end":10899.074,"text":"種青菜自己吃還不夠所以要從台灣這邊運過去還有就是我們馬祖曾經是黃魚的故鄉黃魚打到可以踩到黃魚上岸踩到黃魚上岸是因為那個網魚群過來整條船裝到快翻船了所以把網切斷魚就浮在海水上面"},{"start":10900.046,"end":10923.371,"text":"一直到岸上所以我們講說可以踩著黃魚上岸是這麼講的那黃魚多到不行啊現在你看黃魚多貴好黃魚沒有了大陸跟我們一水之隔海水是一樣的嘛那麼他的海水有毒我們的海水沒毒嗎所以他的淡菜啊牡蠣啊有一些水產品"},{"start":10924.775,"end":10952.388,"text":"大陸連江 連江縣是大陸水產養殖的第一大縣 以前是第二水產養殖的非常多的東西你看我們老闆現在拿一點東西過來還判刑欸要關兩年多 關三年好幾個抓去關東西不准上來那我們瓜瓜哥上去吃什麼我不曉得院長那天上去吃了什麼水產沒有沒有 沒有 都吃豬肉豬肉 牛肉"},{"start":10954.059,"end":10982.452,"text":"我看你沒吃到什麼水產嗎沒有對啊以前滿桌都是耶 那個淡菜一整桌的吃啊有啦 別的這個觀光客從各地去的 各縣市去的我看他們吃的都很豐富啊你看漁業署漁業署 經濟部這個不得進來那個又什麼什麼什麼外貿 國貿什麼幾號我是不懂啦然後又不去福島去放養什麼 放魚 那個魚啊 放養"},{"start":10983.871,"end":11013.503,"text":"放什麼三萬隻大陸來這邊一放就放幾十萬啊是不是他只是做個樣子嘛你要輔導老百姓怎麼樣把海洋資源把它變成海洋牧場嘛歷任的農業部長都晃一晃算了人好不好對我們都很客氣啊你看馬祖老百姓真的你看我們有沒有跟你抗爭學生有沒有罵過你們沒有欸"},{"start":11014.653,"end":11040.334,"text":"我們自己知道我們人太少了土地太小了我也不敢罵我的忍氣吞聲滿腹的委屈所以那天到了馬祖院長說立委你都沒講話讓你講講話我哪裡敢講話我應該跟你講一個鐘頭兩個鐘頭講不完的是不是你沒交代我講我想說也不是我的場合我就不講話"},{"start":11042.284,"end":11065.336,"text":"後來你總算也讓我講了幾分鐘啦是不是應該的應該的我是說農業部啊你去輔導一下嘛是不是你輔導一下嘛你馬祖老百姓你要吃什麼你觀光客進來以前那個飛機旅客過去啊房子沒人住現在呢客滿客滿"},{"start":11068.171,"end":11096.863,"text":"老闆爺的田地有沒有變更計畫蓋房子蓋民宿我們民宿也把它合法化合法化那這土地都滿了沒有土地啦土地在誰那裡在國產署那裡在軍方那裡那軍方跟國產署能不能釋出土地給縣政府呢可以但是不能做私人用途那你等於逼著縣政府要去蓋旅館縣政府要蓋旅館這個沒有道理吧看看"},{"start":11098.188,"end":11124.086,"text":"院長有機會跟您底下各部會有沒有討論一下對金門馬祖金門土地很多金門的土地都是僑胞的他們僑胞在外面不回來所以荒廢很多土地我們馬祖僑胞很少我們土地就用光了所以這個我覺得非常重要的另外最近在討論軍購其實院長我那時候跟你討論過你就講實話"},{"start":11127.952,"end":11137.313,"text":"其實發價出來了多少就多少今天不是討論這個我是覺得你跟反對黨,他監督你有必要的"},{"start":11138.462,"end":11167.115,"text":"是不是八千就八千嘛 你先讓他過嘛 過了你再申請啊七千八百億的部分總統已經公告了我們也希望事不遲疑啊那這個未來第二階段還是要趕快請大家大院能夠來討論另外就是本土軍工產業這一塊不涵蓋在裡面那你不要跟老百姓講說我們必須想要補貼你們兩個在反對幹什麼這個仇越絕越深了套怎麼解套嘛 你講嘛對不對好 你最近又講了"},{"start":11167.964,"end":11196.817,"text":"海馬仕要部署在哪裡?部署在東營我們東營很可憐耶只有四平方公里的一個彈丸之地裡面放了什麼東西?我跟你講什麼寶貝?天空飛彈雄一飛彈雄二飛彈我們東營的對面是什麼?寧德山都澳峽埔潛水艇的基地老共啊他一出來你瞄準他砰給他打掉他受得了嗎?"},{"start":11198.117,"end":11224.913,"text":"他無人機可以飛到你的東營的上空你東營底下在幹什麼部署什麼清清楚楚大部分防禦公司重裝備都在地底下好你只要發射一顆誰倒霉老百姓倒霉住在土地上的都是老百姓在做生意幹什麼的認為大陸不會打我們東營二兵科全部躲在地下打不到二兵科老百姓先死"},{"start":11226.909,"end":11232.857,"text":"院長你要不要給東宇老百姓一點安全的價值如果委員都講到這一段你就知道政府怎麼會"},{"start":11235.019,"end":11262.891,"text":"會不照顧到離島會覺得離島不重要離島非常重要雖然現在已經不是戰地文化那至少是我們在防衛台灣的第一線上面的官兵上面的居民上面所有的設施都是保障整個台澎金馬安全的第一線政府當然極端的重視啊這個不用討論啦國防部有沒有跟你報告他的兵推結果有沒有告訴你兵推啊兵棋推演"},{"start":11265.478,"end":11294.01,"text":"馬祖的兵推喔要你獨立作戰欸老共打過來你獨立作戰欸兵推就是讓我們中兵推的結果做更多的改善更多的補強這個才是兵推的結果他要圍亮島亮島上面二三十個兵還要解放軍來圍喔那麼漁船就把你弄垮了只有二三十個兵高登也是幾十個啊是不是我們現在不是等著老共打我們我們老百姓都在想說"},{"start":11295.694,"end":11324.077,"text":"我們馬祖沒有罵你啊你不會打我吧我們所做的準備就是我所做的任何準備就是希望不要引起戰爭因為我們有足夠的能力保護自己所以現在的戰爭應該是用科技的戰爭不是兵力的多寡是關鍵是科技能不能就整個系統來維護台澎金馬整個的安全你知道馬祖老闆已經從哪裡搬來的嗎不是從台灣搬過去喔是從大陸搬過來的喔"},{"start":11325.448,"end":11351.937,"text":"對我們來講都是中華民國的國民這個沒錯啊問題他是從黃崎台陸北郊連江福州長樂從那邊搬過來的梅花那邊搬過來的搬到馬祖來定居然後在那邊下一代是這麼出來的你現在說跟對面打仗你夠肥我們沒有要跟他打仗我們反中仇中我們只希望他不要隨意的擴張武力侵犯我們的主權"},{"start":11353.394,"end":11375.022,"text":"對面是我堂哥堂弟有的叫他堂嫂老一輩走了 我們現在變成老的我們變成阿公阿嬤了你叫我們兩邊對打沒有啊 沒有叫你兩邊我們都從來不主張任何對打我們只希望他不要侵犯我們的主權我們做好自己的準備讓他不敢對我們有心存企圖心跟妄想 這樣就好了"},{"start":11375.402,"end":11394.007,"text":"你說老共跟我們有講過什麼統一獨立從來沒講過他沒有跟我講過我去大陸那麼多次沒有跟我聊這些東西但他實際在做的就是要併吞我們的主權不是嗎他就說你不要獨立我就不會對你怎麼樣你去那邊講中華民國這兩個大人的事情跟我們什麼關係我們是夾縫通裡面的求生存"},{"start":11399.79,"end":11412.803,"text":"所以我們要保障是這樣的一個民主生活方式不要被破壞掉那包括從各地來的在馬祖在金門的從各地方來的也都希望維持現在的生活制度跟社會制度"},{"start":11413.493,"end":11443.096,"text":"所以院長今天講來講去 光光拜託您光光我們會全力發展跟農業部講 協助我們好不好我會請農業部去研究如何協助馬祖的漁民在漁業的振興我知道那漁業的振興是困難的你不要預算編個兩百萬 三百萬 五百萬 編個一千萬塘災一下 腐爛一下就過了是不是我以為不要一次三五十億啊不過這個請院長幫個忙另外那個燕泊市長這邊好不好 院長也交代了"},{"start":11443.905,"end":11471.782,"text":"我希望這個一個月之內,馬祖大橋由您親自主持或是部長主持好不好,你開個會馬上把他...一定會接住,一定會送他來協助,用紅布來協助我們綜合計畫花了一億五千萬耶世襲也說技術沒問題啦,工程技術沒問題啦,錢也沒問題啦你一年編個五十億、三十億嘛我又沒有叫你全部幾百億通通編進來你慢慢編嘛"},{"start":11472.952,"end":11495.294,"text":"如果計畫編出來經過審議審查之後當然是逐年的連續預算來做編列搞不好你現在今年明年編了以後呢那過兩年把這個爛攤子丟給國民黨去了嘛你又不是永遠第一個這個不是爛攤子而且政府的這個施政是延續你覺得是爛攤子我看嘛這不是爛攤子政府的施政是延續的我們不會隨便亂丟但是明年好不好"},{"start":11498.513,"end":11503.159,"text":"院長 拜託啦好好 市長謝謝啊我們會結束好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝陳委員謝謝卓院長發言會休息五分鐘休息之後繼續進行質詢現在休息"},{"start":11837.472,"end":11838.036,"text":"法院會現在繼續開會 請閣委員如今質詢"},{"start":11867.254,"end":11894.667,"text":"好謝謝主席有請行政院卓榮泰院長好請卓院長備詢各位好院長好院長本席手上這個東西是1980年代最流行的時尚科技是一支手機叫做黑金剛不曉得院長您有沒有曾經使用過黑金剛"},{"start":11896.806,"end":11915.244,"text":"我沒有使用過這一個這麼原始的是啊我想院長也都說了這是屬於遠古時代的通訊設備但是現在我們應該也可以知道台灣不可能有人在用這樣的黑金剛但是院長跟黑金剛相同年代的車輛法規1988年聯合國"},{"start":11919.636,"end":11940.739,"text":"歐洲經濟委員會通過的UNEC R79的測量法規居然2025年才在台灣全面強制施行院長你可以想像嗎一個這麼原始的這麼遠古的法規台灣竟然2025年才全面強制施行"},{"start":11941.81,"end":11957.848,"text":"這就像什麼假設政府用一條法律規定從今天開始全台灣的民眾不准使用iPhone17通通必須拿著黑金剛來講電話這是多麼荒謬的景象而這樣落後的情況非常不幸正發生在台灣"},{"start":11958.909,"end":11983.935,"text":"正在用40年前的法規在今天去限制台灣的交通科技的發展限制台灣民眾使用最新交通科技的權利為什麼發生在手機上院長會覺得很原始很荒謬但發生在車輛上面院長就覺得理所當然呢更可怕的是R79還不是唯一綑綁住台灣車輛科技唯一的一條繩索"},{"start":11985.616,"end":11997.104,"text":"2024年9月聯合國通過的R171的第一部分內容規範Level 2的駕駛輔助系統目前交通部正在審查台灣預計要2032年才強制施行"},{"start":12001.027,"end":12027.74,"text":"院長沒有聽錯落後其他的國家7年3個月其他更先進的車輛法規R171的第二部分第三部分根據交通部的答覆台灣連什麼時候開始審法規都遙遙無期不知道什麼時候才有辦法機會來施行另外全球都已經跟進的Level 3的自動駕駛等級的R157聯合國2021年就已經公告了"},{"start":12028.1,"end":12037.454,"text":"台灣則是要最快等到2031年才全面強制施行到時候又要再度比其他國家落後10年的時間"},{"start":12038.789,"end":12061.344,"text":"我非常感動院長現在立刻關心起來為什麼因為您跟這件事情息息相關您上個月的時候出席2026年的Touch Taiwan系列展開幕頒獎典禮的時候說AI十大建設最終目的就是讓台灣民眾看得到AI技術用得到AI本席對院長的話十分認同"},{"start":12062.245,"end":12087.082,"text":"但是全球自驾技术的发展我们一定要知道台湾功不可没没有台湾没有自驾根据报道特斯拉下一代的AI5 AI6的自驾核心晶片也正在由台积电三奈米两奈米的先进制程来代工结果我们台湾的民众对于最先进的自驾技术却看得到用不到"},{"start":12087.842,"end":12110.01,"text":"自己做的晶片賣給全世界讓它變得更方便讓其他國家的人用院長要如何向全國人民解釋這些AI我們不只看得到也用得到呢我們國家對於適量法規的落後政府難辭其咎院長台灣的法規不能在科技發展後面深思歷劫的追趕"},{"start":12111.05,"end":12135.308,"text":"我們一定要讓台灣的民眾用到最新最棒的科技政府就要另闢蹊徑打開法規的大門讓台灣的AI科技可以和其他先進國家齊頭並進甚至領先而不是永遠落後8到10年去審查這些法規我們的產業要成為領頭羊國家的法規不應該扯後腿就像院長說的嘛"},{"start":12135.788,"end":12151.329,"text":"要讓台灣民眾看得到AI技術也要用得到AI技術這才是AI內閣嘛院長本席辦公室對於這個議題已經多次跟交通部以及民間團體進行討論這邊提供院長兩個具體的解決方案第一"},{"start":12152.23,"end":12177.933,"text":"荷蘭交通管理局RDW就在今年的4月已經宣布了批准特斯拉全自動駕駛監督版FST Supervised可用於高速公路使荷蘭成為歐洲首個開放功能的國家RDW聲明表示正確使用駕駛輔助系統有助於提升道路安全而且這個系統會比其他同類系統更安全這是歐盟的說法喔"},{"start":12178.973,"end":12205.347,"text":"而且按照歐盟的規定荷蘭交通管理局的認證其他歐盟會員國可以通過相互承認機制直接接受而不需要再次進行審查台灣雖然不是歐盟會員國但是從前面的法規整理我們可以讓院長得知台灣目前在車輛的法規上面高度完全的參採了歐盟的UNECE的體系我們要學歐盟"},{"start":12206.007,"end":12222.848,"text":"不只要學他的僵化而沒有彈性的部分而是要跟著他一起前進荷蘭現在已經為全歐洲打開了一條快速通道台灣當然可以學讓台灣製造的晶片讓台灣人參與的技術也能上路更何況"},{"start":12223.669,"end":12252.534,"text":"台灣的車安中心VSCC與荷蘭交通管理局RDW從2011年起就建立緊密合作的關係這應該是一種雙向的互動2012年簽署協議車安中心可以代表RDW在台執行歐盟驗證品質一致性的核驗協助台灣車輛產業取得蘇歐的認證這應該可以是雙向的雙方合作10天以上RDW的認證台灣理應可以直接裁認"},{"start":12253.114,"end":12272.638,"text":"這是第一種方法第二種方法台美在2026年的2月正式簽署了對等貿易協定ART據瞭解當中也包含美國採用採用美國台灣要採用美國FMVSS聯邦機動車安全標準的相關內容這是一套自我認證制度"},{"start":12273.098,"end":12301.907,"text":"Self Certification製造商自己提供FMVSS的證明文件保留測試數據被查直接上市不需要政府事前審查我們的鄰國早在2012年韓美FTA生效的時候就採納了FMVSS並且在2025年的11月12號正式讓FSD也就是Full Self-Driving登陸韓國台灣將可依循韓國模式"},{"start":12302.948,"end":12327.928,"text":"讓車商來自我認證不用再經歷漫長的車輛法規翻譯和審查就可以和國際同步使用到最新的自駕科技而且FMVSS制度也允許政府對市場上銷售的車輛來進行抽測如果發現不合法規就可以要求召回會議罰則比起單純的紙上作業更能夠確保車輛符合法規本席要再次強調"},{"start":12328.809,"end":12344.355,"text":"院長說要看得到用得到本席真的認同不只是一家T開頭的廠商有很多B開頭的M開頭的非常多的廠商都已經在提供類似的level 3的自駕的技術荷蘭已經證實是安全的"},{"start":12344.835,"end":12360.606,"text":"而且還可以讓台灣的民眾更降低了交通風險院長我要跟您報告2024年交通事故總死亡人數高達2950人平均每天超過8個人因為交通事故失去生命院長"},{"start":12361.266,"end":12378.887,"text":"已經有數據了開放FSD的技術可以提升安全性7到9倍降低85%的事故每一天晚一天開放自家科技就有可能讓多達8個家庭失去他們的親人"},{"start":12379.628,"end":12407.067,"text":"晚一年開放自駕科技就讓全國將近三千人有可能平白上命因此這是一個人命關天的問題具體想向院長提出的建議第一採任荷蘭交通管理局RDW的認證結果批准特斯拉全自動駕駛監督板可於高速公路使用另一個則是讓台灣的車輛法規採用歐規美規FMVSS自我認證制度的雙軌制"},{"start":12408.988,"end":12429.006,"text":"相信左院長站在道路安全保障人民性命的立場一定會盡速研議讓台灣民眾可以和世界與其他國家同步享用最先進的台灣參與其中的交通科技請院長可不可以當場承諾將兩個具體研議帶回研議一個月內給本席具體的答覆"},{"start":12430.233,"end":12441.035,"text":"好謝謝各位委員剛剛一開始那段話我覺得應該檢討的是我們跟國際的接軌竟然落後了這麼長久的時間這個提醒我覺得我們都要非常的重視那"},{"start":12441.943,"end":12460.914,"text":"我們現在國內是Level 2是可以在路上走的對不對那Level 2跟Level 3應該有很大的進步啦我們應該好像更那這個是不是有一些法規上我們剛剛都整理好了院長我時間有限一個月內研議好不好一個月內給本席距離查復兩個方法都做好了曾經請說明問題在哪裡我在最近"},{"start":12463.12,"end":12484.082,"text":"我們都非常清楚也都溝通過了院長在此可不可以承諾一個月內給本席具體答覆跟交通部一起可以嗎我想委員在一個月內不好意思次長我沒有請你發言我在這裡需要院長的承諾我們不要再看到黑金剛的手機我們要讓先進的交通科技上路拜託院長可不可以一個月內具體承諾"},{"start":12485.57,"end":12513.333,"text":"我要求交通部一個月把現在政府手上所有具體答覆 跟委員隊跟委員隊 剛剛我們的兩個提議帶回去研議一個月內具體答覆 這個研議可以那跟委員隊這個資料的內容那如果有更好的方式我們共同來討論好 那我想院長您率領的AI內閣啦也發展主權AI我們看一下照片啦您能否辨識這個照片背景的文字很清楚吧 很清楚"},{"start":12514.438,"end":12538.098,"text":"軍人捷徑嘛結果啊我們叫GPT把照片裡的文字來讀一下結果呢他說的是什麼呢他說華人必進啊華人的加密貨幣啊更誇張的是啊GPT不認識這個卓榮泰院長竟然啊還說他是林怡靜部長而且還說部長曾經和華人幣的加密貨幣項目有所連結啊"},{"start":12538.999,"end":12545.806,"text":"其實就是我們的資料不足啊才會造成AI不理解台灣我想院長應該非常清楚"},{"start":12546.616,"end":12575.214,"text":"那为了台湾的资料治理出发部去年7月就预告了促进资料创新应用条例去年10月31号提报到行政院今年3月我们院长还大众动作的召开记者会说哇本会期的优先法案啊结果呢产业无不巧手期盼但是啊草案卡在行政院超过194天请问院长行政院版的促进资料创新利用方案条例这个会期能不能送到立法院审查"},{"start":12576.428,"end":12584.715,"text":"我們認為優先法案我們會照他的順序所以就是難還是不能 難還是不能有沒有信心"},{"start":12585.632,"end":12610.902,"text":"我努力讓他成為我們跟部長一起努力好不好 這個會議送進來院長現在既然還在討論階段我要跟院長報告這個草案有幾個爭議第一個預告版的草案34個條文通篇18個都是得字看不到政府的因我們看到行政院得召開再來政府機關得建立政府得鼓勵"},{"start":12612.242,"end":12639.153,"text":"什麼都是得啊要不要乾脆微鼓勵算啊應該是因就要做民間最期待的資料中介服務還只有一個條文又是得政府得鼓勵請問我們的政府對於產業之間的共享資料的規劃到底是什麼啊還有什麼啊我們呢很心心念念的看說政府可不可以去談說因應主權AI來認購民間的資料結果沒有"},{"start":12639.773,"end":12658.199,"text":"我們看到的是什麼政府不談民間資料的交易早是在預告版25條說政府將政府資料作為共享資料提供利用得收取費用收費標準由政府機關定制替政府販賣資料牟利留下法源依據"},{"start":12659.039,"end":12680.888,"text":"歐盟的開放資料第六條明確規定收費原則要採邊際成本為原則現在我們這個草案完全背離世界的趨勢我想要利用今天總質詢的機會向院長提出以上的建議啊能不能重新的來討論把這些爭議把它移除掉才能夠加速發展我們的主權應該可以嗎"},{"start":12681.508,"end":12698.418,"text":"法案預告的功能就是在聽取各界的意見那委員整理出來這個意見如果能夠詳細的交付過來那我想在檢討的時候部長 部裡面還有我們政委都會認真的來討論好 謝謝院長我想還有一個議題跟AI平權有關"},{"start":12699.378,"end":12726.523,"text":"台灣使用免費AI的比例高於七成我們要非常感謝教育部長推動了管管有AI的政策在本席的積極爭取之下教育部直屬的圖書館會有五台電腦付費購買使用CHPT、Cloud或Gemini等等的服務但是這只是第一步本席多次向教育部爭取比照文化部發放文化幣促進文化禁用的平權政策"},{"start":12727.404,"end":12752.104,"text":"請教育部來提出研議結果教育部說這個非常重要應該要發建議AIB由AI全管部會速發部辦理那我們現在速發部林部長也在場院長我們今天能不能當場承諾由行政院邀集相關部會研議發放AIB或你要叫數位幣來速發幣都可以讓更多的年輕人更多的產業可以體驗"},{"start":12753.805,"end":12780.351,"text":"數位 新的AI的服務 付費的服務能不能請院長兩個月內給本席一個正式的答覆可以嗎依照我們過去發展各種文化幣 運動幣等等還有客家幣等等成效非常好如果有助於推動兩個月內給本席一個正式的答覆可以嗎我們現在更希望把它整合成為一個生活的支付不要一個部會花一個幣整合起來更好兩個月內可以嗎兩個月內給一個正式答覆請數碼部來整合這個事情"},{"start":12780.751,"end":12804.585,"text":"好謝謝那最後啦多元衛星好謝謝葛委員謝謝卓院長許智傑委員之質詢已書面提出請行政院書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報下一位請邱若驊委員質詢"},{"start":12817.218,"end":12823.326,"text":"謝謝主席 請主席邀請行政院卓院長 交通部次長請卓院長還有次長備詢謝謝 主委好"},{"start":12834.02,"end":12852.26,"text":"院長好 院長今天本席要先提出的是我們桃園重大交通建設的問題那首先是捷運 捷運綠線延伸大溪這是桃園八德地區大溪地區非常關鍵的鐵道建設那桃園市政府已在去年114年10月28將可行性研究提報"},{"start":12853.661,"end":12870.847,"text":"提報交通部然後續行審查那交通部鐵道局也在今年的4月9號邀集國發會內政部財政部還有行政院交通資源交通環境資源處組織總處等單位現地會看那新的方案是全長他是7.83公里規劃設置5座高架車站總經費約417.44億喔並交通部將"},{"start":12877.849,"end":12894.317,"text":"這個路線延伸到大溪老城區同時處理大旱溪跨河工程還有逃生與等安全課題那院長要特別讓您知道的是大溪是我們桃園的觀光樂區那也有媒體曾經報導不到一公里的路也要開在假日"},{"start":12895.357,"end":12910.93,"text":"在假日交通優色的問題啊觀光因為很多人都會到大溪觀光那不到一公里的路程往往要開上20分鐘那所以這條軌道建設它不只是新建軌道而已也是要緩解我們大溪地區"},{"start":12911.73,"end":12927.686,"text":"那交通擁捨的問題那還有停車位的不足的問題公共運輸不足的問題還有巴德大溪通勤連結不足的問題那想請教次長捷運綠線延伸大溪案已經修正後送交通部那您這邊目前掌握到的進度為何"},{"start":12928.519,"end":12953.816,"text":"我想首先跟委員報告原則上地方政府所提的捷運延伸大溪的這樣一個可行性的方案交通部應該都是支持的但是應該還是要依照程序來做處理那桃園市政府所提出來的這個相關的計畫因為裡頭還有相關的事項需要釐清所以呢也請市長說明是什麼事項需要來做釐清因為這已經不是第一次送出求證計畫了"},{"start":12955.417,"end":12972.885,"text":"那我跟委員報告這裡頭上有這個捷運計畫因為我們所有的捷運計畫要在桃園市裡頭有很多的捷運建設正在推動所以呢第一個要先釐清的是相關的優先的推動的一個順序那另外對於運量的需求因為運量的需求會影響到這個系統的治長"},{"start":12976.267,"end":12995.01,"text":"還有財務的計畫所以這個市長如果您說到的是運量的需求那我必須要提前交通部長王國才部長到現場去進行考察的時候他也說到這條捷運綠線延伸到大西一定要延伸到大西老街是為了地方長遠的發展和整體效益那您現在說到的說到的是"},{"start":12996.291,"end":13016.76,"text":"剛剛提到的是是為什麼是運量的需求它整體的上它還是要有OD的相關的運量的預測等等的這是一個數據化的一個討論所以像這樣的一個研究的數據在那一個審查會上的時候大家討論因為我時間有限請市長直接說那這一次是不是又退回到桃園市政府了"},{"start":13017.02,"end":13044.316,"text":"這一次我們大概就是請桃園市政府就這一些事項而且其中他還有一個其他的委員特別也提到說路線的規劃呢裡頭沒有進入大溪的老街那計劃的到底你有進入到大溪老街這一次就是因為修正之後有將這條捷運綠線延伸到大溪老街所以再次送到提報到交通部那您怎麼會說原則上這樣的一個東西我們希望桃園市政府呢在"},{"start":13044.916,"end":13063.101,"text":"就剛才我特別提到的那幾個事項市長因為我了解到啦因為這一次你們又退回了那院長我是希望行政院支持地方的建設不能永遠讓這個建設跟計畫一直停留在審查中那也請院長請部長協助好嗎市府正在檢討"},{"start":13064.861,"end":13080.703,"text":"交通部的一個修正的一個審查的內容這個內容如果委員還要詢問是不是跟委員說明一下交通部這個審查的意見到底是什麼市政府在朝哪個方向進行請跟委員提供一下書面再跟委員報告好 謝謝院長"},{"start":13081.844,"end":13104.931,"text":"是 我想我們 我再跟委員說明一下啦最主要還是包含我剛才特別提到的計畫推動的優先順序啦運輸需求的預測啦 運量的預估啦土地的取得還有TOD的開發等等的那當然工程的相關的界面還要再確認啦那這些呢我們會把具體的審查的意見整理好以後送給委員參考"},{"start":13106.314,"end":13120.687,"text":"是因為我 據我了解你們退回到桃園市政府之後桃園市政府他們最快也會在五月底請再次送出結請次長和部長這邊要讓桃園市政府知道一次就可以把計畫就是完整你們要求的都有做到"},{"start":13124.811,"end":13138.624,"text":"桃園目前正在承擔捷運綠線還有鐵路地下化等重大交通建設的高峰期地方財政壓力非常沉重近期也有桃園市議員提出質疑115年度中央補助款跟協助收入佔稅數比率從114年的29.37%降至115年度的19.93%"},{"start":13145.851,"end":13166.207,"text":"那地方擔心中央表面增加了統籌分配稅款可是實際上卻大幅的降低計畫型的補助讓地方自行承重重大的建設支出那更讓桃園市民難以接受的是包括本席高雄捷運黃線在113年3月份的時候經行政院核定它的總"},{"start":13167.108,"end":13181.959,"text":"建設經費是1442.37億那其中中央的補助佔了833.34億到了114年12月21日的時候行政院又核定了高雄的捷運黃線修正計畫總經費提高到2368.58億"},{"start":13188.183,"end":13206.108,"text":"那中央可以核定高雄捷運大幅追加經費可是桃園的捷運綠線經費追加然後還有桃園鐵路地下化的計畫就面臨更嚴格更漫長的審查還有財政限制喔那民眾那包括本席也就質疑中央是不是採取兩套標準這邊也請院長做說明"},{"start":13206.684,"end":13224.534,"text":"好 這個個案先請次長來說明對 我想跟委員報告一下有關那個捷運建設也好或者是地方的鐵路地下化的工程也好都牽涉到中央或地方的一個裁員那跟委員報告一下因為裁判法修正了以後"},{"start":13225.054,"end":13243.521,"text":"其實交通部在115年度的提報的這個公共建設的原來的有關這樣的一個經費大概有2200多億但是後來呢就短掃了大概1000多億所以這樣的一個經費上會造成相關的補助地方的各種捷運建設也好或"},{"start":13244.201,"end":13257.051,"text":"而地下化的工程也好他的這個預算額度就會受到一些除了財劃法之外你可不可以就是說明中央對柯縣市的軌道建設到底包括這個經費的追加還有審查到底的標準到底是什麼"},{"start":13259.022,"end":13284.727,"text":"我想我們所有的軌道建設我剛剛也舉了高雄黃線它可以追加900多億並獲得行政院的核定那麼我們桃園我剛剛也提到了目前有桃園捷運綠線然後還有鐵路地下化等重大工程那現在進行中那為什麼不能用同一把尺去做衡量呢我跟委員報告一下每一個工程它經費會增加一定有它的原因有的是土地經費的增加"},{"start":13286.867,"end":13311.996,"text":"或者是工程的技術或者是增加相關的廠站所以對於經費來核定他其實要按照這樣的方式來逐一來審議剛才特別提到桃園鐵路地下化的相關經費增加的部分這部分我們也在幾次裡頭大概有鐵道局跟桃園市政府大概有做一些釐清相關經費我們也是表達支持市長您知道這次桃園鐵路地下化追加後面增加的經費是多少嗎"},{"start":13317.068,"end":13332.994,"text":"它有相當的經費的一個增加大概我們的了解總共是700多億那您知道為什麼又要增加700多億呢它有相關的譬如說它有一個平鎮車站的增加等等或遷移等等的"},{"start":13333.379,"end":13353.485,"text":"所以像這樣的一個經費會照這個在這個計劃的額度裡頭會有所調整那這一部分呢其實鐵道局也好或者是桃園市政府也好我們大概都有經過相關的討論那我們已經把相關的計劃報期我直接請問院長院長那對於這增加700多億院長是否願意來協助桃園呢"},{"start":13353.965,"end":13368.706,"text":"增加第一個方面應該是物價的調整再來這個路線他有這個桃園車站就遺址的問題另外還有平鎮車站要南延到一公里外的問題這種種都增加他的經費"},{"start":13369.127,"end":13393.842,"text":"是特別希望院長放高因為現在整個工程的進度它是落後的才百分之三十多那通常工程延宕你們會說是因為人力的關係也因為原物料上漲可是我們不能讓這個工程延宕延宕變成常態化那所以希望在核定的時候我們可以縮短這個時間也包括也希望那本席也希望院長可以來支持我們桃園的各項重大建設交通建設"},{"start":13394.602,"end":13409.485,"text":"是 那我們現在中央地方因為財化法之後重新再調整這種分擔那依照的就是各地方政府的財政的級距以及原來財化法跟現在財化法對這個統籌分配稅款對地方政府增加的各種服務"},{"start":13409.985,"end":13429.561,"text":"我們也有桃園其他的委員向院長提出就是提到我們桃園目前的交通建設那財化法的話過去前行政院副院長鄭文燦副院長他也提說要修賴總統也提說要修那現在我們討論到這個工程的進度然後還有工程經費的問題希望院長不要用財化法來代過但不是修成現在這個樣貌"},{"start":13431.102,"end":13456.871,"text":"然後那沒關係因為我今天沒有就是特別要中央就特別特別的去照顧桃園希望可以做到公平現在這個樣貌各縣市都不滿意所以院版的財發法希望能夠好好討論重新來討論因為現在我們也希望院長接下來不要因為顏色的關係就有不同的對待讓我們桃園感受到感受到差別待遇我一直說桃園是我們桃園著名的大溪谷當中的交通建設會牽動未來整個產業發展"},{"start":13459.592,"end":13484.068,"text":"更不說是觀光的需求跟產業發展這是我們經濟的命脈產業發展觀光需求所以我們地方不只鐵路地下化也不只捷運院長也特別我們來關注到巴德大溪復興的交通問題還有國道3號偵測巴德交流道是為了因應巴德人口快速成長並改善國道6號大南交流道還有國道3號大溪交流道交通用色的重要工程"},{"start":13484.588,"end":13511.87,"text":"那公共局也規劃在國道3號因割系統55至大溪的56.9公里處要增設交流道還有輔助車道那行政院也在2020年還有2023年分別核定了可行進研究然後還有建設計畫總經費是67.9億並在2025年也辦了公聽會那當時預計是2026的年中可以動工但緩解大溪的交通問題不能只靠這個八德交流道"},{"start":13512.29,"end":13541.149,"text":"那所以桃園市政府也研議了要在大漢溪兩岸道路做串聯並延設台山線的計畫那希望新建第三座的新橋來避免巴德交流道最後仍會回堵到我們地方大溪的武嶺橋上不過這項計畫呢它涉及水資源保護區還有都市變更的計畫還有經費的徵取那院長您是否可以來協助我們地方那在後續在桃園市政府將計畫送出之後可以來協助跨部會的協調"},{"start":13542.907,"end":13562.374,"text":"市長說明這幾個案子是我想我應該了解像這幾個案子如果地方政府他有這個需求的話他可能要做相關的一個可行性的研究以後然後提出相關的一個計劃那計劃提出來以後當然就會牽涉到經費的來源跟經費相關的一個分攤比例的一個問題那這一部分呢"},{"start":13562.914,"end":13587.453,"text":"我想交通部也好或者是因為這裡頭在桃園市有可能很多都是屬於內政部生活圈補助的一個範圍我想交通部會跟內政部共同來演繹以上今天把地方的問題都向院長做報告了也希望院長能多加支持我們桃園的各項建設因為時間的關係院長我們直接看到案例今年4月有馬來西亞的遊客來台觀光的時候他透過網路業者"},{"start":13591.837,"end":13611.071,"text":"他找到業者來協助包車並安排行程後來他控訴遭到司機的惡劣對待媒體後來也去查詢相關的業者他不在觀光署的合法名單裡面觀光署也表示招攬或是接待旅客並安排旅遊安排旅遊時速還交通這都是屬於旅行業業者的業務"},{"start":13611.952,"end":13635.343,"text":"那非法旅行者不得非法旅行業者不得經營違法者可開罰那我們看到這個問題不單是司機的態度不好那也直接影響到我們台灣的觀光那因為這些旅客他也不知道他買到的不是合法的旅遊商品那他也沒辦法分辨這是不是私人的行程所以我們交通部觀光署要怎麼來做管理"},{"start":13637.495,"end":13667.035,"text":"我想跟委員報告一下委員剛才也特別提到因為我們觀光發展條例裡頭特別有提到如果你是辦理接待觀光客安排旅遊時速及交通就是要特許就是旅行業的範疇剛才特別提到小黃因為他大概所以次長您是知道目前有這個問題嗎小黃司機不管會在熱門的景點他們直接對觀光客來販賣行程或是幫他們安排住宿幫他們安排交通"},{"start":13667.815,"end":13690.254,"text":"您知道這個問題嗎那交通部這邊 觀光署這邊有沒有做取締觀光署當然他因為這個取締他會依照相關的一個規定來做取締這是一定會的取締有幾件取締的件數我想我手頭上都沒有啦我們會後是不是可以提供相關的資料給我也參考請再提供資料給我"},{"start":13691.295,"end":13715.684,"text":"那您知道就是有這個問題那問題目前要怎麼管是觀光署管還是地方政府管中央有沒有建立一套的標準呢像現在讓他們這樣子違法因為很多都是透過LINE或是IG或是在網路平台上面購買嘛那其實他是沒有他也有提到旅行業是特許行業那他們這些他們本身不是從事旅行業的所以他們現在是我們有一個我們看到是一個非法包車的問題"},{"start":13717.538,"end":13737.163,"text":"是依照發展觀光條例當中有這個特許行業他必須取得許可之後才能行為那如果有像剛剛委員所提這個個案觀光署一定要依照個案的認定 像院長報告其實這已經不是個案現在這會影響到我們台灣整體的觀光事項我們來檢討法規上是否有所不足是好"},{"start":13747.581,"end":13771.683,"text":"謝謝邱委員謝謝卓院長吳秉瑞委員質詢書面提出請行政院書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報報告院會上午質詢到此為止下午2點30分繼續進行交通組織質詢另外依黨團共事本次會議不處理臨時提案現在休息"},{"start":20764.514,"end":20764.915,"text":"這裏有個大廈"},{"start":21425.916,"end":21447.388,"text":"包委員會現在繼續開會進行交通組織諮詢首先第一位請嚴委員寬恆諮詢主席各位列席觀眾大家好主席有請行政院卓院長請卓院長備詢"},{"start":21459.464,"end":21480.831,"text":"院長不曉得前一陣子你有沒有看過一則新聞是這個台中市長盧秀燕在市政質詢的時候回覆議員表示不同意台中海線輕軌用這個用輕軌來代替捷運台中市未來不會有輕軌的計畫院長你認不認同盧市長這樣的說法"},{"start":21485.319,"end":21504.398,"text":"抱歉我倒沒有注意到這個內容相關的內容市長是在市政質詢的時候議員問他說海線從這個青江機場到清水這一段這個有規劃要用輕軌但是市長已經在會議當中就直接表明說台中市未來不會有"},{"start":21505.117,"end":21527.684,"text":"所以這部分說未來如果計畫到了中央還請院長來協助台中市的一個捷運的一個規劃來核定來協助台中市所以院長你願不願意來協助台中市政府的意見是要用什麼樣的方式就是用我們就是要不同意用這個輕軌來取代取代捷運所以是全線都是捷運這部分"},{"start":21528.834,"end":21545.408,"text":"好再來我會請交通部來進一步的研究看怎麼樣有助於地方的發展跟實際上的需求運量等等的需求我再跟院長討論的就是台中市目前的捷運路網現在規劃已經成型藍線橘線"},{"start":21547.288,"end":21564.477,"text":"都是海線通往市區的一個重要的捷運路線那尤其是客宮軸線客宮軸線就是串聯屯區銜接藍線橘線綠線的重要路線未來搭配海線的鐵路雙軌高架就能夠形成海線的一個公共運輸路網"},{"start":21566.007,"end":21590.804,"text":"柯公軸線這條路線非常特別它銜接高田跟台中機場對於整個台中機場的運量以及未來旅客願意選擇從台中機場出發的意願一定會大大的提升所以現在台中市已經是全台人口第二多的城市那捷運路線要能夠成為路網才能夠讓旅客乘車的意願能夠提高"},{"start":21591.448,"end":21619.895,"text":"那台中市現在多管齊下包含菊縣、蘭縣延伸屯區環狀縣還有我們豐園、崇德縣都還在可行性評估的階段我想院長在這部分多多的協助來支持台中市政府讓台中的這些捷運路網可以盡速的來核定那我們在114年9月26日交通部提送這個捷運菊縣的案子提送促餐平台審議完成"},{"start":21621.209,"end":21639.395,"text":"符合免送促餐審議條件又交通部115年2月2日再度核轉行政院審議所以院長這個案子已經在你的桌上是不是能夠請院長能夠同意此案讓台中捷運局限能夠盡速的核定院長這部分可不可以請你回答"},{"start":21640.849,"end":21666.682,"text":"局縣的部分再請市長說明一下我跟委員說明一下因為局縣這裡有特別提到要送初餐的一個平台這是因為初餐的一個機制那完了以後報請行政院來核定那行政院核定的過程裡面當然行政院會有相關的一個審查那審查的一個依照審查的一個結果才會簽報行政院來核定"},{"start":21667.522,"end":21692.633,"text":"所以現在應該是在這樣一個程序之中所以才請院長說能不能加快時程因為整個路網台中捷運的系統如果核定之後包含有我們的屯區捷運跟捷運綠線串聯成為一個環狀路網能夠向外輻射發展擴大服務範圍也能夠連同周邊的公共運輸串聯到中部其他包括彰化南投"},{"start":21693.846,"end":21706.55,"text":"兩個縣市讓整個交通環境可以大幅度的改善所以這個一定要請中央鼎力相助可以嗎 院長好 我會把這個案子再仔細的請院裡面來評估那做一個適當的解決"},{"start":21709.107,"end":21726.309,"text":"那我再延續前面的議題台中市現在的捷運路線多半都是依靠台鐵的路線來規劃那以台鐵的路線形成最外圍的一個大環線所以未來台鐵也是台中捷運路網串聯最重要的一環但是我現在擔心的是我們"},{"start":21727.469,"end":21750.504,"text":"台中大慶烏日高架化還有鐵路海線雙軌高架段這兩個案子從我2013年擔任立委到現在已經13年了那不斷的討論從最新的是115年3月6日交通部又交給鐵道局做審查這13年我想"},{"start":21751.618,"end":21780.376,"text":"今天部長沒有來本來要問陳部長但是因為他請假了那陳部長上任到現在也20個月了那過去市府鐵道局交通部行政院國發會來來回回公文完環不知道幾十次了數都數不完所以我想要請教院長要請教院長這個案子到底是技術上有困難用地無法取得還是經費分攤有問題又或者是"},{"start":21781.007,"end":21807.171,"text":"有其他特殊的政治因素院長你可不可以告訴我為什麼只有這一段沒辦法執行海線雙軌高架化的這個路段目前應該有一二三四五個問題存在那行政院已經請交通部再把這個審查的結果請市政府再做修正之後再報我說來來回回好幾次的修正我跟院長報告最近一次最近一月份除了海線雙軌高架之外"},{"start":21808.154,"end":21831.645,"text":"我們高鐵站就是高鐵新烏日 鐵路新烏日站到大慶站這一段最短的距離在2013年到現在從當初的50億到現在的上百億這13年都擱置在這裡我現在如果是回台北回去台中尤其到五日每一天回到選區民眾就直接問我"},{"start":21832.629,"end":21855.282,"text":"為什麼不做 為什麼其他地方高價都做了為什麼只有大慶到烏日 難道這裡沒有迫切嗎現在 時間一久現在北市民眾都直接跟我講大白話直接問我說 是不是因為立場不同是不是因為立場不同所以不做我們後裏不只有立委 我們還有部長"},{"start":21856.229,"end":21866.754,"text":"所以現在本來認為說部長來自於烏日而且他每天台中台北往返他也是住在烏日只有烏日這一段沒辦法做所以這個我想這個是"},{"start":21868.876,"end":21888.367,"text":"對地方的交通建設我們的立場都是一致的立場一致但是問題是落後啊台中市很多的狀況出現我們也是全力下去協助這件事當然是 我是剛剛跟委員報告一月份行政院函已經請交通部給市府重新在依修正函裡面再去做修正審查意見再修正那三月份也已經在進行程序當中"},{"start":21890.848,"end":21892.349,"text":"如果這個可以通過對於整個台中海線屯區"},{"start":21921.788,"end":21943.73,"text":"未來整體的交通問題一定大有改善交通部是不是已經在審查市府送來的修正意見來來往往好幾次了修改很多次了我想再請教有關高鐵娛樂城大家知道現在是最大的開發案"},{"start":21945.103,"end":21967.26,"text":"那我這邊有收到115年2月4號專案小組的會議紀錄希望未來如果有開會都能夠繼續的將會議紀錄提供給本席辦公室在紀錄裡面我看到交通部一年所提出的問題標題是有關省道快速公路增設交流道申請審核作業要點是否是用於既有雜道之改善拓寬"},{"start":21969.962,"end":21987.319,"text":"這個應該閘道的問題不管是在歷次的質詢或者是考察會議當中都明確的要求中央要針對高鐵魚的整個周邊國道、閘道、交流道的改善或台74線快速道路閘道優化不管到時候明年2028年全面"},{"start":21991.501,"end":22006.956,"text":"這個開放的時候 當高鐵漁樂城開幕的時候 藍萊北網還有在地龐大的車流如果你只靠目前的平民待遇改善 到時候整個交通一定完蛋了"},{"start":22008.152,"end":22036.568,"text":"未來的車流人流是現在的數倍是現在的數倍那我想必須要搭配我前面所提到的這些方案我想要請教院長說2024年10月也是在這個位置我們在總執行的時候你允諾說要成立高鐵漁樂城專案小組到現在已經一年半了這個漁樂小組專案小組成立已經一年半了這個最基本的法規問題到現在都還沒有釐清所以要請教說院長"},{"start":22037.468,"end":22063.801,"text":"這樣子的效率你能接受嗎我來說明一下我跟委員說明有關院長指示要成立這個平台來協調這部分呢目前是由我們鐵道局在辦理那相關的一個會議也好或協調事項在那裡頭大概都有所討論那剛才委員特別提到娛樂城開發完成以後周邊的這樣相關的一個交通的議題我們的了解是"},{"start":22066.683,"end":22092.862,"text":"這個開發商就是高鐵特定區的開發商大概有補助700萬給台中市政府做相關的一個規劃那規劃完了以後的結果當然有短中長期的改善方案委員剛才一直很關心的大概是屬於中期或長期有關如何跟台七四相連接或者是在高速公路是不是有偵測交流道的可能我想這個在這個跨平台的會議裡頭會繼續討論然後後續有比較可行的方案會據以執行來"},{"start":22095.472,"end":22112.11,"text":"院長 次長 這個是我們提到的專案小組第四次會議第四次會議裡面 他怎麼講他說你們這裡面怎麼提到的你們法規還沒釐清 到現在法規還沒釐清"},{"start":22116.531,"end":22141.972,"text":"鐵道局希望周邊的道路路線可以完善鐵道局當然希望啊因為他是主要的受益者嘛對不對高速公路局希望你們都不要來動到我國道的穿越相含不然會妨礙到我以後的拓寬那公路局說這個東西我們沒有錢可以補助啦台信事線要銜接高鐵站二樓平台是地方政府的事情"},{"start":22143.174,"end":22152.352,"text":"所以院長 次長你們回去看看你們這份專案小組的會議內容好不好 看一下這裡面多離譜啦我想"},{"start":22154.802,"end":22177.212,"text":"現在最大的危機就是我們交通部陳部長他現在面臨的危機是說全部都是交通部的下屬所管轄的包括鐵道局、高工局、公路局整個案子是鐵道局的出差案然後要設閘道要穿越高速公路相含要新增這個交流道也都是高工局管轄"},{"start":22177.992,"end":22205.948,"text":"然後74號聯外道路要銜接高鐵的二樓的平台這個是高工局管轄沒有一個是地方政府的事情可是奶隊各局處互相踢皮球沒有一個人願意出來整合出來統合所以我在想這裡是不是請院長來指示我們交通部就責成我們的次長來做這個案子的負責人"},{"start":22206.826,"end":22233.087,"text":"能夠有效的迅速的在法規能夠統合然後呢 未來的計畫能夠有專業再透過這個專業小組把這些事情全部的釐清可以嗎 院長好 當然既然都是交通部的所轄的單位我們公路局 高工局或是高鐵那應該部裡面就能夠解決這個問題請次長跟部長回報以後是不是由次長您來主動來協調這個事情那再請部長來做決定 好嗎"},{"start":22237.01,"end":22254.195,"text":"對所以今天院長有一個正面的回應就是說願意請交通部請交通部部長同意由我們的城鎮市出來來主持這一次的未來專案小組的會議以及所有這包括鐵道局高工局還有我們公路局就針對"},{"start":22255.287,"end":22284.546,"text":"高鐵特區相關新增交流道閘道的改善所有的這些這些工程的設計跟未來的一個法規的一個促進還有未來怎麼樣跟地方政府台中市政府協助的部分全部都交給我們政事次長來協助可以嗎我請政事來各個單位交通所屬各個單位來釐清當中所互相目前還沒有解決的困難那最後請部長來做最終的決定"},{"start":22292.605,"end":22304.37,"text":"因為我們現在未來鐵路高架除了海線雙軌高架之外現在人口最稠密的地區然後碰到如果鐵路因為烏日區鐵路位高架的話他整個在"},{"start":22305.277,"end":22329.529,"text":"烏日里跟九德里人口超過4萬人的這一個一個狹窗型的一個地帶如果每次遭逢這個這個瞬間雨量大的時候他的這個下水道就是地下穿越道都會淹水已經造成無數次很多的這一次的這樣子一些傷亡那所以經由我們的一個鐵路高架能夠徹底的改善這個不管是交通的問題安全的問題"},{"start":22330.256,"end":22357.872,"text":"所以這個部分還在這邊還是要請院長來協助就烏日大慶烏日站鐵路高架的部分能夠先來先行核定可以嗎謝謝委員今天的提醒我請交通部來加強化他的這個效率把這個事情做一個解決好的好謝謝好謝謝委員好謝謝原委員下一位我們請黃裕祥委員質詢"},{"start":22360.899,"end":22383.645,"text":"法院會現在在議場二樓旁聽的是東吳大學政治系的同學在這邊歡迎他們到立法院來同時另外現場在二樓貴賓席的是德國聯邦就業發展署附屬大學的參訪團歡迎他們到立法院來Welcome"},{"start":22388.868,"end":22396.532,"text":"好謝謝主席有請卓院長跟這個工程會主委陳吉武卓院長請備詢還有工程會的主委請備詢黃委員好好院長好主委好這個因為上次的話"},{"start":22412.165,"end":22437.361,"text":"上次的話有跟院長在經濟委員會質詢說許願就我們希望把這個資訊跟雲服務等等這樣的東西的系統採購入法那上次我也有質詢過這個陳主委那我想在採購法這個地方因為在我們之前包含像公共工程委員會我們在113年2月也揭露大概有14項"},{"start":22439.598,"end":22465.899,"text":"的這個資訊服務系統的一個採購的類型那我這邊大概列出了幾項包含了我們整個的需求的定義啦我們的驗收的一些的標準那甚至我們一些不定底價然後呢用一些最優歸的一個方式來進行所以這個會造成我們在一些的需求上的不清楚低價的得標"},{"start":22467.264,"end":22488.203,"text":"然後呢比如說廠商做不完驗收沒辦法過那上限出問題那種種廠商沒有利潤就劣幣驅逐良幣所以我想這個東西呢在過去的時候葉澤良在擔任工工程會的副主委他那時候想要修這個採購法但是呢我們那時候發現"},{"start":22489.619,"end":22518.494,"text":"好像阻力很大那就提出了政府資訊服務採購作業指引跟資訊的雲端服務的採購的契約的範本那其實這兩本寫得很好比如說像你現在看到的這個採購法的資訊服務的話他從預算規劃需求規格廠商的供應鏈旅約的查核一直到專業驗收跟爭議的處理其實在那個指引有"},{"start":22519.873,"end":22545.515,"text":"甚至我們在因應比較新時代的雲服務AI服務的話這一個東西我們在政府將來你採購雲端或者是AI的這些服務的時候怎麼讓它是可控制、可持續、可退出跟可問責其實這些都有規範但是我們在資訊業界還是希望它能夠入法"},{"start":22546.462,"end":22566.457,"text":"因為這個東西連行政命令都不是那指引如果不遵守我們還是會有剛剛我講的這些我們政府系統的問題所以我只要求說這個陳主委可以把我這個列入考慮那如果需要跟我們討論因為上次副主委也說我們可以貢獻這個專業然後跟各位一起來討論這樣的東西"},{"start":22569.059,"end":22584.119,"text":"雖然有一些指引跟評選辦法的確是母法裡面沒有相關的設計那政府採購法目前我們在聽取各界意見當中預計年底希望能夠整合意見來"},{"start":22585.782,"end":22608.251,"text":"這個預告那這當中呢我會請我們的副主委陳偉強副主委那麼來跟委員來一起好感謝因為這是我們執行業二十幾年來的先生啊那用什麼方式來入法好謝謝謝謝時間先暫停一下主席那個就請陳主委謝謝那接下來我們請這個蘇巴部林部長"},{"start":22621.872,"end":22640.222,"text":"部長好 委員好上次我在質詢的時候其實我想要問的其實是幫我們軟體產業請命其實從這些軟體的預算我們這個一直都是比硬體的預算要低很多那我為什麼上次會談到AI的軟體發展的戰略下一張"},{"start":22643.635,"end":22671.697,"text":"上次問主委這個問題主要是說我們速發部主管的是我們的軟體產業資訊服務產業所以我們身為這邊的大家長我當然當時的希望是說部長可以對這些資訊的現況有一點瞭解包含比如說我們在主計出6263的這些的家數員工數他的產值以及比如說我們在上市上櫃這些東西"},{"start":22672.679,"end":22692.941,"text":"甚至我們這些裡頭的資訊服務廠商的類型那原因很簡單因為我們整個軟體產業都是靠速發部希望能夠訂出好的軟體的戰略然後引領大家一起走那我今天也不要求部長給我這個要考試的不用了我們就直接把它列出來"},{"start":22694.554,"end":22714.416,"text":"像我自己的話我們大概就是說整個資訊服務產業大概就是差不多有1.7萬家員工數大概12.7萬去年的產值大概是6600多億在SARS那個時候可能就是再好一點可能是到8000多億了所以大概是在這裡有跑但是我們的上市商櫃公司大概差不多是48到50"},{"start":22716.687,"end":22722.775,"text":"因為現在在新規要排著上去那我們在上市商桌公司的產值大概是1500億到1800億其實佔我們整體的比重很低"},{"start":22727.202,"end":22752.683,"text":"大概差不多0.4%他不到一趴0.4%到0.8%所以呢我們就一直希望說在書發部帶領的這些軟體產業AI是一個新的機會所以我們要怎麼樣去做那這個時候我也去翻了因為從以前部長上任我們就來看嘛因為我們整個都要看這件事那部長講了很多再幫我下一個都按出來"},{"start":22755.577,"end":22780.437,"text":"就是說部長討論了這個project到product軟硬整合現在我的問題就是我從這個行業畢業從博士班畢業到現在27年其實我從27年前就知道要這樣子做了經濟部那時候也談出說我們軟體產業不要做專案要做軟體產品服務但很難"},{"start":22782.199,"end":22800.681,"text":"軟硬整合我也做過很多硬帶軟 軟帶硬硬體廠商出口 軟體怎麼幫他加值等等現在又聽到這樣子的口號我比較好奇的是說部長有什麼樣子的新的做法可以說以前我們做不到的現在可以做得比較好"},{"start":22802.063,"end":22816.256,"text":"事實上就是如同剛剛委員跟工程會所講的就是說我們現在的軟體採購政府之前的軟體採購就是說政府很喜歡叫廠商去改東改西的明明一套軟體它已經是都做好了"},{"start":22816.696,"end":22844.49,"text":"好像那個政府的習慣就是會叫廠商說改這裡改那裡好像公務員覺得說不叫廠商改什麼就好像是有虧職守所以我們現在就是在跟工程會合作我們會去還有那個軟體工會我們修改軟體採購契約的範本那也如同剛才委員所講的包含這個雲端的產品等等那以前我們的這些軟體採購的各種契約範本都是以project的概念去做的所以很多的"},{"start":22844.91,"end":22864.616,"text":"那個都是用什麼驗收怎麼樣那我們現在就是先想辦法就是說從軟體採購契約範本這個地方來修改那我們已經跟那個軟體公會大概已經討論了半年多那我們現在很快的應該就會有新的軟體採購契約範本那就希望是轉向這種產品採購的方向"},{"start":22867.697,"end":22886.874,"text":"那有了這個契約範本以外那另外我們也鼓勵那個各家廠商盡量把他們的產品上到我們共同公共契約裡面這樣子的話就是由我們政府做起就是示範就是說我們在買軟體的時候我們應該多買product不要去開project可是我覺得這個是"},{"start":22888.649,"end":22911.518,"text":"理想很崇高但現實真的很骨感因為我們很多資訊服務系統還是以project為主因為產品真的不好做它也不見得馬上能夠獲利所以一般像我們以前做軟體公司一定都是project再來養產品所以這是一個必經的過程這個也希望部長能夠理解整個我今天是貢獻我的"},{"start":22913.462,"end":22929.151,"text":"二十幾年來在做這些不同產業的數位轉型跟AI的經驗如果就我的角度來看的話台灣整個AI的軟體的發展的戰略第一個我覺得是先要有個定位那這個定位我覺得是比較是屬於"},{"start":22930.732,"end":22953.375,"text":"可信賴的AI的一個產品的定位當然最終我們檢驗它一定是可以輸出可以被驗證我們並不是要去做POC我們是要做一個Service那我為什麼會這樣子來看就是說整個台灣最劇烈的優勢一定是在我們的垂直領域"},{"start":22954.476,"end":22965.964,"text":"而且我們有強大的製造的模號我們的臨床的醫療全民健保在這一塊農業的話基本上是localization就是不可取代性因為它就有區域性的這些干擾"},{"start":22966.772,"end":22984.497,"text":"那從垂直領域的優勢去發展我們垂直領域的AI的產品這是上次我想要跟你討論的啦那當我們要支撐這個垂直領域的AI產品發展的時候那我水平的AI也不是百分之百的水平"},{"start":22985.492,"end":23008.804,"text":"一定是為了支撐上面這個垂直領域的AI所要做的不管是在倫理、資安、檢驗甚至我的部署怎麼樣最有效率那這樣往下的時候我才會去算說那我這樣子我的資料的數據我的算力 對不對我的這樣子的一個整個這個基礎的建設我要花多少錢"},{"start":23010.304,"end":23032.457,"text":"所以我們的一切是為了垂直的領域的優勢的發展所以我想部長應該也算是認同非常認同因為就在前一陣子我們跟金管會還有台灣16家大型的金融機構包含中信金等等我們才發表了一個計畫就是台灣金融大圓模型這個就在一個垂直領域裡面"},{"start":23033.177,"end":23059.402,"text":"我覺得台灣的金融我個人的意見我認為是優勢沒有前面的製造跟醫療要搶我是覺得因為我們的資源有限你可以去考慮我為什麼這樣子講再往下我們看一下就是說當我們在定一個國家的戰略的時候基本上一定會去看我的競爭國我這邊沒有把日本擺在不是說我瞧不起他"},{"start":23060.478,"end":23082.136,"text":"可是他的戰略真的沒有韓國跟新加坡來得優秀韓國在未來這個未來OIC是個首席長何振宇他就去講我整個就是一個財團七棟國家的力量去走所以他的三部曲很清楚我透過26萬片加4萬片30萬片的GPU去訓練我的自己的主權的大語言的模型"},{"start":23083.089,"end":23097.511,"text":"再來我全力去發展推論的晶片再來我才把這些的算力資料這些分配給了不管是國家實驗室不管是分配給SK分給現代分給NAVR去做這些商業的用途"},{"start":23098.593,"end":23121.127,"text":"戰略清楚新加坡因為他人小也沒有什麼太多的domain know-how但他的法尊法規很強想辦法把全球人才吸引起來去做比較水平式的一個AI那我覺得台灣要勝出就一定是在垂直的領域所以我們怎麼樣子集全部的預算能量去支撐這個垂直領域的發展"},{"start":23122.315,"end":23138.437,"text":"這個是我認為我們在做國家戰略的時候可以勝出的一個戰略的關鍵那往下那我覺得如果按照我剛剛這樣子的想法那我們在製造一個AI速發部一定會覺得說這件事情"},{"start":23139.505,"end":23159.696,"text":"我們到底要怎麼做 因為我們常常說話不做的時候會怕踩到經濟部嘛因為製造業裡頭不管是我們的紡織 我們的工具機 我們的扣件我們的這些的水五金 自行車零組件其實製造有很多的次領域每一個次領域所需要的製造領域知識的AI這些都不同"},{"start":23160.731,"end":23181.406,"text":"那我們在做這件事情的時候就是說在資料分配場域可驗證的情況之下它是一個很好的發展的機會那下一個所以呢根據我過去這樣的經驗我覺得我們呢速發部要去跟經濟部配合經濟部可以去做這些產業的輔導不管是在製程、視覺、設備"},{"start":23183.877,"end":23206.969,"text":"甚至包含尤其我們最難的供應鏈這些的預估交期的管理那這一塊裡頭的話我們速發部應該帶領軟體的廠商去做他們最強的軍火庫那這個東西是不是一定要外銷我倒認為不一定他可能是幫我們台灣製造業去做攻城掠地的一個最佳化的武器但是他的武器"},{"start":23208.11,"end":23217.556,"text":"是來自於速發部你所領導的這些軟體跟支付的廠商來做這樣的事情那這樣子你的所有的您常常會講的嘛"},{"start":23218.718,"end":23246.197,"text":"算力、人才、資料、行銷、資金那我們就是集中往這個地方去做那我們不要跟經濟部各做各的因為院長也在這邊就是跟經濟部配合不然有時候你會怕說我做多了會踩線但是你就做軍火庫嘛然後他去做製造業的consultant的一個服務我覺得這樣子會對台灣的製造業的升級跟轉型是很好的一件事情"},{"start":23247.779,"end":23265.733,"text":"那下一個我想這邊都是一樣不管我們台灣的HIS的廠商那現在跟FIRE這些國際的標準對接那我們慢慢的就不要再做也不是不要再做啦就說除了精準醫療視覺的這些辨識之外其實往在臨床醫療這裡頭的AI也這幾個"},{"start":23268.664,"end":23283.075,"text":"所以抒發部只要去定出一個方向甚至我認為下一張最弱的叫農業我常常在審農業的智慧化的AI運算我真的是看得頭有點痛到處都是AI跟國防部的AI也是差不多"},{"start":23284.008,"end":23297.028,"text":"然後你要問資料沒資料問模型沒模型問什麼要做什麼解決什麼問題都不知道我覺得速發部在這個地方應該要去扮演這些比較其他部會的system的architect系統的架構師幫他訂規格"},{"start":23299.532,"end":23326.04,"text":"幫他訂資料幫他模型的規格然後他怎麼去做驗收我覺得在你的書發部可以擔任這樣的角色然後把台灣的軟體產業帶進來非常同意委員的想法我們現在書發部有一個資料匯流隱私強化技術的計畫就是要幫各個部會去匯整這些資料然後匯整之後就可以訓練各個領域垂直領域的AI模型再下一張"},{"start":23326.618,"end":23342.843,"text":"最後一張就是再往下一點點再往下好謝謝洪委員謝謝卓院長下一位請黃秀芳委員質詢"},{"start":23367.762,"end":23370.225,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們請院長好 請卓院長備詢"},{"start":23382.042,"end":23387.667,"text":"今天就叫院長針對我們彰化長期的交通的問題有幾個問題想請教院長其實我在好幾個會期只要是有總質詢我一定會提到我們彰化的"},{"start":23402.519,"end":23428.546,"text":"交通的問題不論是彰化的鐵路高架或者是台中捷運綠線延伸到彰化那彰化長期交通就是沒辦法一個有效的一個改善所以我們看到就是說人口的流動然後這個青年可能就也不願意留在彰化那長者的這個生活品質也因為交通的問題會受到影響"},{"start":23433.388,"end":23444.534,"text":"張化跨縣市通勤人口越來越多張化到台中、台中到張化,跨縣市人口移動越來越多張化因為大眾運輸也不方便"},{"start":23449.997,"end":23471.624,"text":"鐵路 我們看到高速公路 國道1號 國道3號國道1號 國道3號每道上下班時間一定是大塞車我記得好像是在幾個月前交通委員會也有到彰化考察針對彰化交流道長長塞車的問題"},{"start":23475.479,"end":23501.901,"text":"是不是還要再增設一個交流道我看到就是說只要是有塞車過年過節只要報導塞車一定會報導彰化就是國道一號就是普延交流道國道三號就是快關系統交流道附近就是常塞車我希望就是說行政院針對中部地區常塞車的路段是不是有一個通盤的檢討"},{"start":23504.059,"end":23508.809,"text":"院長是不是可以請你就中部地區常塞車的路段是不是有做一個檢討"},{"start":23510.187,"end":23536.346,"text":"剛剛委員所提到的高速公路偵測交流道這或許是一個解決之道目前他要依照交流道偵測的一個審核作業要點目前已經在進行審議的工作是由縣政府所提出交通部會衡量整個當地的交通的需求量以及現在必須面臨改善的方式到底有哪幾個選擇性那這個已經是在審議當中市長這個審議的過程再跟委員報告"},{"start":23538.692,"end":23562.762,"text":"是我想跟委員做一個說明有關剛才委員特別提到在這個地方不管是高速公路國一或國三我們原則上具體來講是中部路段中部路段經常會有塞車常態性擁捨的這種情形那這部分的我們高速公路局針對常態性的擁捨他有相關的一個改善的一個方案那這部分我想"},{"start":23563.687,"end":23582.318,"text":"會後我請同仁準備相關資料送給委員參考就在這上頭我們如何來改善那這是高速公路局自己在辦理的一個事項那特別提到這個增設彰化第二交流道這一部分那這個部分的我們也跟彰化"},{"start":23583.398,"end":23605.003,"text":"縣政府大概有所討論但是還是有幾個問題要釐清那沒關係那幾個問題釐清了以後我們會繼續依照增改建交流道的方式繼續做相關的一個討論我希望就是說中央跟地方是一起合作的因為地方的發展不是只有地方這個地方政府那中央政府的挹注其實是"},{"start":23605.723,"end":23630.525,"text":"非常的重要因為地方政府有很大的這個建設經費都需要中央的幫忙就像我們這幾個月當中有好幾座的立體停車場的動工或者是完工其實都是中央這個前瞻基礎建設或者是中央的這個經費的挹注才有辦法去施作所以我一直認為就是說中央跟地方對於地方的發展"},{"start":23631.286,"end":23651.946,"text":"真的中央的這個角色也是非常的重要所以我希望就是說針對剛剛整個中部地區甚至是彰化就是彰化地區這邊的這個交通用色的部分我們希望就是說中央跟地方一起合作那增設另外一個交流道我覺得這個也是勢在必行因為"},{"start":23652.586,"end":23665.404,"text":"目前的這個交流道我覺得已經不服實用應該還需要再增設一個交流道所以我希望就是說未來中央跟地方大家是一起合作的雖然是這個可能不同的這個黨派"},{"start":23668.929,"end":23691.5,"text":"不同的政黨在執政地方不同的政黨可是我覺得這個是一致的就是地方的發展中央跟地方是一致的希望能夠地方更好所以我希望未來交通部這邊對於偵測第二個交流道我覺得這個可能要再力道要再加強一點我們會來協助最主要是他設置的地點"},{"start":23692.179,"end":23706.75,"text":"剛才我跟委員特別提到那個地點在高速公路本來就有改善的用途所以如何讓改善也能夠達成然後增改建交流道也能夠落實那這部分我剛才特別提到可能還要相關的大家再來討論以後來做後續的一個處理"},{"start":23709.592,"end":23724.949,"text":"接下來我想請教台中捷運綠線到彰化其實我幾乎每個會期我都一定會問這個進度確實是有一點落後我是不是可以請教台中捷運綠線對於整個彰化"},{"start":23728.572,"end":23748.419,"text":"整個東區都市計畫原本是彰化東區都市計畫現在已經送到內政部這邊那對於目前的這個整個進度也需要中央這邊來協助因為原本的路線又有做一些更改那這樣子的話其實這個台中捷運綠線從"},{"start":23751.001,"end":23769.562,"text":"提要有這一條捷運到現在我覺得已經超過20年了從我當議員到現在就已經20年了所以我希望就是說針對這一部分目前的進度是怎樣未來我們交通部這邊是不是也可以有比較重的角色來協助彰化"},{"start":23772.32,"end":23789.322,"text":"市政府有新的建議來請市長說明一下我跟委員做個說明原則上剛才委員特別提到的這個捷運綠線延伸到彰化那當時在核定這個可行性研究的時候就有說希望就"},{"start":23790.303,"end":23813.963,"text":"擴大張東的都市計畫要先確定確定了以後然後把納在中規裡頭那這樣的話路線才可以確定場站才可以確定後續的計畫才能推動那這一部分呢這個台中市政府在相關的辦理的過程裡頭啊他們大概剛才委員特別提到因為這個有關這個擴大都市計畫還在審議中所以他為了要加速來辦理所以他"},{"start":23814.443,"end":23830.764,"text":"其實他現在是把這樣的一個辦理的情形也先報來交通部了那這部分我們交通部當然這跟原來院合訂的一個政策方向是沒有一致的但是我們為了要加速來辦理我們現在正由"},{"start":23831.864,"end":23855.413,"text":"鐵道局會同相關單位在審議之中捷運綠線北到大坑南到彰化我覺得應該是要同步去進行的就是說彰化的發展跟台中的發展其實是一致的因為我們有很多民眾他可能就是彰化台中有的人工作就在台中然後住可能住在彰化"},{"start":23856.193,"end":23881.078,"text":"就是兩個都市其實是有息息相關所以兩個都市的發展從捷運來串聯我覺得這也是非常的重要我們也希望捷運綠線能夠盡快來施作因為已經講太久了彰化的交通建設真的都太久了還有一個就是彰化的鐵路高架"},{"start":23882.138,"end":23907.523,"text":"這個鐵路高架也很久了我不知道說目前到底是卡在哪個地方原本是說到這個2029年要完工那我不知道是什麼時候講的2029年要完工你看現在都已經2026年了都還在綜合規劃那我不知道說等你綜合規劃然後到施工"},{"start":23908.943,"end":23931.29,"text":"開始動工到底還要多久的時間是不是可以請就這部分也做一個說明是 院長我來說明一下跟委員做一個報告有關鐵路高架的這一部分那因為是鐵路的高架他會有相關的一個區域的騰空要做一些規劃所以這就牽涉到了該地區的相關的都市計畫的變更"},{"start":23932.281,"end":23947.363,"text":"跟土地開發還有交通的整合的一個規劃那這個需要跟這個地方政府縣市政府大家共同來討論那這一部分呢我們的了解是到目前為止呢縣政府還沒有做最後的確定"},{"start":23948.71,"end":23975.369,"text":"目前我們正在跟這個縣政府大家就這一部分如何來趕快確定那確定完了以後就可以納在這個綜合規劃裡頭繼續往下走好那這個到底要多久這個決定是在地方政府還是在這個要跟地方政府大家共同來討論所以我是不是也可以拜託就是交通部這邊針對這個部分就是說你們也積極的跟地方政府這邊來聯繫然後盡速趕快"},{"start":23977.951,"end":23996.161,"text":"把這個案子趕快定下來原本我們是預計在2029年要完工10年的時間要完工那如果這樣講的話應該是2019年那時候講的那現在已經又過了這麼多年了所以院長針對彰化的這兩個非常重要的一個建設"},{"start":23996.901,"end":24023.784,"text":"捷運綠線還有鐵路高架的部分是不是也請院長針對這兩個重大建設我相信院長我在質詢的時候你應該也碰到好幾次我跟你質詢這兩件的重大的交通建設針對彰化這兩個對彰化未來的發展非常重要的這兩個重大建設那是不是可以請行政院這邊一方面也拜託能夠做一個統籌然後也協助地方"},{"start":24024.564,"end":24046.665,"text":"趕快把這兩個重大建設必須要的這些這個準備的工作趕快完成然後趕快動工是黃委員兩個時間點跟委員報告台中捷運綠線延伸的這個部分剛剛次長所答覆的包括市政府新送出來一個建議擴大張東的都市計畫這個部分是在上個月送出的所以在四月底"},{"start":24047.205,"end":24060.224,"text":"交通部已經請各單位再做更進一步的審查所以新的進度在這裡那就請交通部掌握進度那第二點就是剛剛有人提到的彰化這個鐵路高架化應該是這個花壇二水這個之間"},{"start":24061.311,"end":24088.049,"text":"那個是幾乎一個段那這一段因為剛剛就時間上來看是有所延誤的沒有錯那這個第一個階段目前的計畫如果說縣政府能夠提出這個都市變更等等這個土地開發能夠解決的話預計第一階段是在122年完工你剛剛說的大概晚了三年左右吧"},{"start":24090.25,"end":24104.797,"text":"1933年2033年本來是說2029年要完工我們大概完了四年但是有一些都市計畫跟土地的取得我們就努力在這個目標前提就是都市計畫的變更跟這些土地的開發要趕快解決掉那才能夠進到後續這個工程比較細緻的規劃"},{"start":24112.481,"end":24126.073,"text":"所以我是不是可以麻煩就是也拜託我們交通部這邊就是說可以儘速跟地方政府這邊來溝通那碰到什麼樣的問題是不是也一併來協助來解決儘速讓這個彰化的鐵路高架趕快來完成"},{"start":24131.607,"end":24148.485,"text":"只要有動工有進行有動工我覺得這個就是給民眾一個希望啊要不然一直在提彰化的鐵路高架台中的捷運那我覺得這個對彰化人來講真的就覺得每一年都在提然後或者是選舉到了然後大家又提"},{"start":24149.465,"end":24175.971,"text":"這兩個非常重要的一個建設可是選舉過後好像地方政府針對這部分好像推動的力道也沒有那麼強中央可能也要看地方政府到底推動的進度怎樣所以我是不是可以在這邊要求就是交通部這邊是不是也一併積極來協助地方政府趕快將這兩個非常重要的對彰化發展有非常重要影響的這兩個重大建設趕快"},{"start":24177.271,"end":24206.131,"text":"是不是可以盡速讓他盡速來動工我請交通部跟鐵道局還有台鐵公司請彰化縣政府一併港這個土地剛剛說的土地開發以及都市計畫變更的事情能夠做一個有效的解決那才能往後推那請交通部來鑄造這個事情好我真的衷心的懇求拜託因為這兩個真的是講太多次也講太久了這樣的一個建議來辦理是好"},{"start":24206.673,"end":24234.178,"text":"那我一直在講今天的這個交通彰化的交通問題除了就是說我們有這兩個非常重要的一個交通建設之外那其實彰化的這個大眾運輸系統其實是非常的非常的不好因為這個只要在偏鄉地區你要等一班公車可能要等一個小時兩個小時好那這一兩個小時當中有一些偏鄉的長輩他如果家裡面沒有孩子幫他有的需要這個就醫的問題那需要"},{"start":24237.599,"end":24256.987,"text":"如果說沒有家人來協助的話其實真的是對偏鄉的居民來講真的非常的不公平所以我也希望交通部針對這一部分就是大眾運輸的部分因為譬如說彰化的幾家客運他們講的就是缺工所以他找不到這個駕駛"},{"start":24259.201,"end":24285.669,"text":"所以就只好減班那造成早上上下班的時間就減班孩子們要上學也因為這樣子然後那個時間就是有的是原本可能20分鐘一班30分鐘一班現在甚至就一個小時兩個小時在一班所以我覺得針對這一部分交通的問題是一個都市發展非常重要的一個指標所以我在這邊也麻煩也拜託"},{"start":24315.425,"end":24320.17,"text":"好 謝謝黃委員 謝謝卓院長下一位請許富奎委員質詢"},{"start":24343.648,"end":24348.313,"text":"謝謝主席,有請我們佐院長跟交通部陳正次請佐院長還有陳次長來請許委員好"},{"start":24358.903,"end":24377.944,"text":"院長晚安次長官我想這個我到立法院來服務那也很幸運能夠到交通委員會我想這是第五個會期那每一次會期的總質詢我想我還是琢磨在我們屏東的這個重大的交通建設那今天也特別"},{"start":24379.526,"end":24393.886,"text":"帶了我們屏東的這個正出產的這個鳳梨芒果跟洋蔥要送給我們院長跟我們次長希望能夠幫我們這個屏東的這個農特產品我們的農民親國的農民來加油打氣因為這個"},{"start":24395.107,"end":24422.215,"text":"鳳梨、洋蔥跟芒果從我們最南端國境之南要送到我們台北這個千里迢迢要花很多的時間那未來如果我們這些重大交通建設可以逐一的改善我想縮短這個交通的時程跟這個交通的成本對我們農民絕對是一個正向的思維所以我想今天也針對我們屏東幾個重大交通建設特別再跟部長、院長來請命希望能夠加快這個期程"},{"start":24422.935,"end":24439.304,"text":"我想院長您也對屏東非常非常的熟悉那我們這張圖是我們屏東縣33個鄉鎮的一個區域的一個圖啦從最北的一二屏北到我們三四五的屏中到六七的屏南"},{"start":24439.884,"end":24463.796,"text":"我想整個從軌道建設公路建設還有甚至到小琉球的這個交通的建設每一個都是我們很重要的一個環節也是我們的觀光產業跟科技發展很重要的一個重中之重的一個瓶頸我想我們也期待行政院跟交通部要加快速度那不過很遺憾的我想這個"},{"start":24465.096,"end":24477.249,"text":"每次聽到屏東的重大交通建設的時候總是有一些我們之前的一些前草的官員甚至我們一些環評的委員都認為說這個高鐵南沿屏東不需要啊"},{"start":24477.745,"end":24504.177,"text":"因為我們屏東這個人口沒那麼多我們的農業發展也不需要這個高鐵那甚至還有提到說這個我們那麼遠要花那麼多的成本交通建設的成本對我們公平嗎院長我想我們是一個這個一日生活圈的一個台灣那尤其我們賴總統區域均衡發展的理念我想院長應該很支持這樣整個台灣的一個交通建設的一個均衡發展請院長說明一下"},{"start":24505.413,"end":24529.454,"text":"是的 我們常說大軍未到糧草先行產業發展 交通路線如果能夠先規劃的話對產業跟基本的人民的交通需求跟民生是有絕大的注意的所以不是現在人多人少的問題當然我們會考量它的這個交通量是會考量的但未來的前瞻才是我們現在整個建設所眼光該放的地方"},{"start":24530.199,"end":24544.287,"text":"好院長那我先從這個標示上面1234567我想先請教一下次長這7個地點您熟悉嗎有一定的了解有一定的了解那第一個是什麼建設"},{"start":24547.386,"end":24574.355,"text":"第一個就是我們高鐵屏東市的高鐵準備從高雄南延到屏東那這個完工的期程目前交通部的規劃到什麼時候高鐵南延的這樣的一個跟委員報告一下現在目前應該是這樣講我們現在院長也大概核定了就是以高雄的方案來辦理所以就是依照這種方式來辦理相關的一個綜合規劃或者是環評的工作"},{"start":24574.915,"end":24593.325,"text":"所以目前這個環評的工作大概在今年的5月4號就召開了高鐵南延屏東的二階環評的範疇界定的一個會議那在裡頭已經就範疇界定來做了一些修正了那後續我想相關的一個環評的工作就可以展開"},{"start":24595.387,"end":24605.932,"text":"也跟委員報告就是環評要通過了以後整個綜合規劃才能夠奉行政院核定那相關的計畫才可以繼續往下走所以這部分有關這個環評的這個工作我們會積極的辦理"},{"start":24611.277,"end":24635.848,"text":"但是我想還是有一個很關鍵的一個點就是我們未來要配合我們這個跟台鐵共購這個六塊錯車站的這個遷移的一個計畫我想部裡面應該已經報到行政院那這個案子應該還在院長手裡院長這個案子我記得您上次有特別提到這個案子您會來支持那今年能不能先讓他能夠六塊錯車站的遷移案能不能先動工這個請院長來說明一下"},{"start":24638.349,"end":24654.188,"text":"六塊做車站這個簽件以配合未來高鐵站的一個興建這個案子現在交通部送請國發會國發會審議之後提出一個修正的意見交通部還在做這個審查過程當中本院還在做審查過程"},{"start":24654.508,"end":24655.369,"text":"我們為了重視而且能夠加速"},{"start":24675.762,"end":24702.839,"text":"近日內我也跟交通單位我們約好時間會到現場再去做現場再一次的了解希望有助於整個程序的推動院長我想這個一定要請院長大力來支持高鐵南延到屏東之後我想未來甚至我們還要南延到潮州未來我們整個這個西部幹線的最後一里路我想一定要院長來大力的支持我們會進步的去現場了解然後加速來推動好謝謝院長"},{"start":24703.697,"end":24719.779,"text":"那第二個我想特別要針對我們這個軌道建設的部分我們這個南回鐵路的雙軌化院長我們屏東到目前為止還沒有雙軌那還有很多地方也是用平面車站那其實就我們過去這麼多年來我們發現"},{"start":24721.261,"end":24736.456,"text":"當然這個我們現在目前針對這個南回體路台東的部分規劃的很好速度也進行的很快但是一到屏東之後就卡關了那卡關之後我想整個平交道的事故也好甚至會造成這個淹水的一個問題"},{"start":24737.877,"end":24766.112,"text":"軌道的這個全面高架化一定是B型的一個路徑那所以我想特別這個部分我也找過這個交通部跟鐵道局雙軌的這個目前進入可行性評估那院長我們可不可能要求這個騎乘再加快一點那第二個未來我們還有一些的車站是還在所謂的平面但是因為確實會造成所謂的交通事故跟淹水的問題"},{"start":24767.332,"end":24795.176,"text":"能不能趁這個時候我們用一個整套的計畫以前蘇貞昌院長的時候已經把部分高價了那剩下還有一部分沒有高價能不能利用這一次的機會把屏東縣全面高價化南回縣的改善跟雙軌的計畫去年12月已經核定了可行性的評估目前還在做綜合規劃的過程當中那現在他是要改善六塊錯"},{"start":24796.653,"end":24820.842,"text":"到台東站的一段的這個結彎曲直還有四處的曲線改善還有四個平井路段的改善再加上三處單軌的優化等等為了去強化交通部提出的環島四個90分鐘這一段南部這一段的90分鐘要加速把它完成照目前的期程如果在現在的這個初步的規劃算應該是在128年完工"},{"start":24823.171,"end":24852.541,"text":"那委員希望能夠早一點當然是 院長128年 現在才115年還有13年的時間對 因為現在這個才完成可行性評估那一個重大工程10年以上那在目前很多進行過程都是這樣子那我們希望交通部能夠在時序上是不是有所能夠加快速度但是一定要有相當的一個時間完成院長我們支持要專業安全的評估那可不可以把我們全線高階化一併納入考量"},{"start":24853.8,"end":24877.167,"text":"目前這個可信性評估應該沒有到,它只是幾處的優化那如果要全線高架化,那顯然跟現在的這個計畫又不是完全一致那應該還要再衝...可以再擴充延伸就可以了啦我們如果從現在的先這個部分,然後再做一些加強的路段,看能不能實行那個院長應該可以先交代交通部先來做規劃吧"},{"start":24878.82,"end":24904.925,"text":"那不影響這個進度啦要不影響這個進度要不影響這個進度的前提底下在不影響這個進度的情況之下請交通部來做一些規劃想法是可以的謝謝院長我們都聽到了我們相信都聽到了在不影響這剛剛提到的進度是不會影響不會影響的前提底下是那第三個還要再請院長跟次長幫忙就是我們屏南觀光體道我想最近這幾年我們這個恆春半島的"},{"start":24905.506,"end":24912.065,"text":"尤其是偏南地區的觀光我們需要再做一些新的刺激也要做一些新的景點開發"},{"start":24913.103,"end":24940.353,"text":"那當然我們過去2017年國發會就已經通過了這個可行性研究當時的計畫是今年的6月就要通車營運後來因為很可惜後來因為基於這個財務效益的評估所以這個案子被擱置了那目前有重啟那院長這部分是不是可以針對觀光交通跟區域平衡的部分能夠再重新再來加快速度市長先說明一下這是有"},{"start":24941.957,"end":24961.446,"text":"這一個部分原則上因為相關的這個設計環境也有所改變所以這部分我們會請鐵道局再來看是不是有重啟的一個可能性我想這個也要積極來進行這是我們也橫出半島的期待那我想另外一個對我們沿海鄉鎮最重要就是我們"},{"start":24962.186,"end":24989.247,"text":"高潔南沿到小港到東港臨邊這個路線那這個也特別感謝交通部跟我們鐵道局的努力那高雄端這邊已經在動工預定是2034年要完工但是如果要延伸到我們的東港跟臨邊又要花6年等於到2040年院長每一條都熱熱等每一條時間都很久怎麼辦院長能不能再快提成"},{"start":24991.95,"end":25013.758,"text":"市長說明一下計程能不能加快我想我們了解委員一直很心切希望所有的計畫都能夠盡速來辦理但是每個計畫的推動都是還是有一定的程序要去做審核那目前剛才特別提到的延伸到東港或林邊高雄捷運延伸到東港或林邊的這一個部分"},{"start":25014.478,"end":25031.648,"text":"目前是正上代釐清幾個事項譬如說系統形式的選擇或路線經過林園石化工業區等議題上代釐清這部分我們會來協助屏東縣政府競速把這個問題釐清以後來進入可行性的審查"},{"start":25035.55,"end":25051.722,"text":"我想我們屏東縣州縣長他跟團隊都會全力來配合那當然也希望我們中央要加快啦能夠跟高雄這邊的溝通能夠更順暢然後盡快來動工好那下一張是我們的高屏二塊院長你有在這個"},{"start":25053.503,"end":25076.108,"text":"鏡頭裡面我記得這是去年9月您到屏東來視察這個案子的進度那當時我們有特別請院長來裁示加快啟程那院長也知道這個是過去我們從高鐵左營站要橫跨國道1號國道10號甚至我們到國道3號到九如這個系統的一個很重要的一個"},{"start":25076.744,"end":25094.876,"text":"高頻的交通路網的一個很重要的一個環節那當時我記得院長也採釋今年六月要動工院長這個期程有改變嗎我當時希望說2026年一定要開始動工是那很謝謝交通部從將近"},{"start":25095.444,"end":25108.396,"text":"這就是九月 去年的九月開始他們預計是今年的九月力拚努力我想這個進度應該可以吧今年的九月來動工一定要動工今年的九月就優先的路段優先的路段來屏東"},{"start":25111.338,"end":25138.332,"text":"這個就是第二條跟那個台三線的交會設一個交流道那個路段我們優先大概一公里的我們優先來動工因為現在左營到屏東這個交通擁捨的情形非常非常的嚴重尤其八八這邊都非常嚴重這條路趕快通車之後可以改善高屏地區很擁捨的交通問題我想這個也要加快來進行對 它會分三個段 七個標能不能選擇優先的一個標會在今年的九月來動工好"},{"start":25139.272,"end":25163.364,"text":"謝謝院長 那我們就期待九月份在屏東見好 那我們另外一個也是我們屏東鄉親迫切期盼的偏南快速道路那我想上個月我們跟交通部陳部長我們針對訪寮外環道的一個動工那這個也是我們偏南快速道路的一個宣示的一個程序那當然我們現在目前的規劃我們是預定在2032年動工"},{"start":25166.105,"end":25184.178,"text":"官務局經過也感謝我們的這個呃曾經的政策的溝通協調齁那個期程渴望在縮短但是呃院長我想這個部分一定還是要分段還品分段來施工啊政治綜合規劃能夠加快來期程這個一樣也要到2037年院長該不會太久"},{"start":25185.444,"end":25214.299,"text":"能不能再加快這個對恆春半島來講是一個救命的一條道路也是一個交通運輸觀光發展的一條很重要的一個道路現在進行完一階環評還要進行二階環評是這個時間的時間一定要拉出來那建設的計畫目前是我們在119年要核定目標加速來辦理那預計整個是在核定之後的七年"},{"start":25215.404,"end":25243.44,"text":"能夠通車啦所以算起來是一百二十六年是沒有錯是2037年院長 擦到都很久了耶會啦 都會夠啦會夠啦齁我也期待 我們都控得住耶這麼多的交通建設一併同時在進行這麼多項那也謝謝縣政府在很多行政作業上的配合那交通部已經全力來協助那另外還有一個要請院長跟市長幫忙我想目前我們規劃台六十一線的南端"},{"start":25244.259,"end":25262.399,"text":"從高雄旗鼓要延伸到高雄的南子那未來也期待能不能延伸到屏東這部分是請教授幫忙一下我想跟委員報告一下現在規劃的台六十一一直往南應該最後是在這高雄"},{"start":25273.655,"end":25274.656,"text":"郭文貴市長"},{"start":25308.643,"end":25310.704,"text":"主席好 我們請卓院長還有陳部長卓院長還有"},{"start":25338.69,"end":25341.814,"text":"市長嗎?部長,部長在嗎?部長今天請假,部長回來了"},{"start":25354.693,"end":25373.458,"text":"邱委員好院長好還有我們次長好那我想請問一下我們桃園這個桃竹苗大細股計畫最關鍵的交通股價就是這一條這個我們國道楊投的段的這個拓寬那按照115年這個今年要開工所以是幾月要開工幾月工程的進度怎麼樣"},{"start":25383.474,"end":25406.75,"text":"這一個進度的開工委員不好意思我沒有掌握我等一下提供給委員因為照你們的計畫這段工程大概分成四段現在楊梅湖口段今天好像也還沒決標那湖口到投份端4月15號有公告6月會決標那投份在D區這段什麼時候開始你都沒有準備啊"},{"start":25413.001,"end":25424.567,"text":"是啊苗栗縣政府115年2月10號就已經送出修正報告第四版那現在三個月過去了那還沒核電我想知道是這是怎麼回事"},{"start":25428.707,"end":25455.245,"text":"市長能不能說明一下是我想跟委員報告有關那個羊頭這個羊頭頭段的這一個工程那個是由交通部高速公路局在辦理的一個事項所以相關的這個計畫如果有必要要跟地方政府來協調的話會由他們來做相關的我這樣講啦市長你回去協調一下你把資料給我然後那個因為他這兩段"},{"start":25456.306,"end":25481.56,"text":"我在想是不是這個工程一開始大概就要七年就要六七年那我們第二交流道的部分沒有辦法在這個今年同時來運作的話我希望說這個能夠同步進行不然這個對地方的民眾整個交通的使用會是非常非常的困難而且會非常非常的擁塞也希望說這個震動機能夠縮短我希望是這幾段都能夠同時來施作這樣可以嗎"},{"start":25482.883,"end":25505.649,"text":"我是不是可以跟委員補充報告一下因為剛才委員的說明裡頭特別提到這個高雄不是頭份段要增設第二交流道的這一個部分那相關的這個討論大概也多說討論那原則上交通部是會來支持的但是在這個案子裡頭還牽涉到下去的聯絡道路相關的一些問題需要釐清"},{"start":25506.249,"end":25518.82,"text":"現在那個道路變更的這個公文已經送到內政部去了啦我請總院長能不能關心這個事情讓這個事情能夠盡快的來這個順利來進行是我們聯繫了以後我們跟委員報告這個羊頭段這個拓寬預計是在115年要動工7年來完成"},{"start":25525.666,"end":25543.436,"text":"因為我們還加上第二交流道的部分我們希望說這個部分能夠同時來運作不然的話你到時候你在施工的時候又會造成另外一波的擁塞好不好 院長你可不可以答應我說把這兩個工程能夠併在一起來儘快處理"},{"start":25551.519,"end":25568.013,"text":"我來跟院長報告順便跟委員報告原則上這個頭份第二交流道跟羊頭公路我們規劃是要一起來施作的部長我再請問一下我們生活圈道路交通系統的建設計畫總經費高達345億那111年到114年明年就要結束剩餘預算還有多少"},{"start":25579.031,"end":25591.377,"text":"根據我掌握的資料這四年內核定的71件工程當中總額約133億元但苗栗僅佔7件約6.6億這個苗栗的交通建設需求"},{"start":25592.341,"end":25611.735,"text":"只有預算的這個零頭那62線的問題一直講了很久了那一直都在計畫裡面中央早在幾年前就已經補助了408萬的這個可行進的這個研究計畫那這也代表中央認同這個部分是非常危險的我們請看一下我們那個這幾年發生的這個狀況"},{"start":25613.223,"end":25628.566,"text":"我大概跟院長部長報告一下製長報告一下就是說2022年3月然後呢一天發生兩起落實波及遊覽車然後呢這個案子呢這個除濕的手要截肢"},{"start":25629.042,"end":25633.943,"text":"然後當然後來國賠了131萬那2023年縣府裝設AI的偵測器短短兩年內就偵測到148次的這個落實平均不到5天就有石頭掉下來那2025年5月2.1"},{"start":25646.427,"end":25664.038,"text":"K2我們巨石砸到貨車造成三人受傷2025年8月62之一線這個巨石又再砸車奪走兩條人命了2028年1月就在前幾個月又再一次擊中轎車還好這個駕駛是實體逃生沒有受傷那我要講的是說這條路已經講了那麼久"},{"start":25670.409,"end":25683.471,"text":"總不能讓我們裡面的居民每一次在經過這條路的時候都要拜拜然後賭一次運氣看看石頭會不會掉下來市長你可以答應我什麼時候要把這個事情趕快處理嗎"},{"start":25684.611,"end":25708.653,"text":"是 我跟委員報告一下有關委員特別提到的苗六十二縣的改善的工程委員大概曉得我們在一百一十年的時候公務局大概就補助了縣府相關可行性的研究那研究出來以後就這一個路段有需要要改善的那因為這個改善的這些相關的經費過於龐大大概約二十一點六億元你可以分年啊"},{"start":25709.634,"end":25731.649,"text":"所以我們在這裡頭有建議啦縣政府可能要就這個邊坡啊分級管理然後分段看要如何來施作要提出相關的計畫那我們再用生活圈的方式來如何補助那剛才也跟委員報告其實我們生活圈的經費像今年115年度才22.7億元光這個計畫就要21億啊只要你們願意做"},{"start":25738.254,"end":25759.959,"text":"那我也看到你們有做嘛對不對你應該要找縣府來做協調大家來坐下來談然後討論未來要怎麼樣去進行這個才是對的啊你們連做都沒做我們沒問你就不講啦不是這樣嗎我們公路局的中區養護分局有跟苗栗縣政府就這個案子大家共同討論"},{"start":25760.839,"end":25786.478,"text":"那剛才委員特別提到 是不是要來分期來提出這個我們在...我希望您關心這個的話給苗栗人一條安全回家的路段優先 而且改善比較容易的路段先來做那配合聖火圈道路 因為現在大概都分配完畢了配合地方的自有財源能不能來支應一部分再來就是 爭取其他的災後的修復的一個災損的經費來處理"},{"start":25788.819,"end":25798.287,"text":"我再問就是苗栗高鐵站進出的人次大概2023年219萬2024年是238萬2025年已經到了264萬那三年增加45萬人次那累積成長超過20%了那2026年前四個月也達到94.4萬人次平均每日大概有7800多人來使用"},{"start":25815.901,"end":25835.621,"text":"現在呢因為苗栗每一次在搭高鐵的時候就一個小時一班一個小時一班你錯過這一班就要再等一個小時那當然我們也跟高鐵溝通過他後來在上下班的尖峰時段有增加的沒有錯但是目前還是覺得不太能夠"},{"start":25837.055,"end":25851.914,"text":"符合我們使用人的期待我希望院長能不能幫忙溝通高鐵希望說這個部分能夠在N700ST的新車隊路列之後排班空間納入考量"},{"start":25852.655,"end":25865.983,"text":"讓苗栗省多一個班次首先高鐵公司在苗栗站尖峰時段已經有加強班次了但是還不是很夠啦所以我們滾動性的跟其他車站一併來考慮12個車站現在新的車廂要進來當然是一個全面檢討的時間"},{"start":25871.966,"end":25896.194,"text":"如果成長的快速而且地方需求那麼大的時候我認為交通部跟高鐵高鐵公司都會納入整個考量但是看整個各個12個車站整個平均的市長你願不願意幫我把這些事情處理好我們請交通部跟高鐵公司來做均衡性的一個評估跟考量好謝謝院長那市長請回那院長我再請問一下就是說"},{"start":25899.1,"end":25910.773,"text":"總統府已經發布了總統令公布7800億國防特別條例那請問行政院現在是不是有聽到說還要打算提第二波把原本1.25兆裡面有通過的部分再補回來嗎"},{"start":25912.318,"end":25928.724,"text":"因為原來這個特別預算特別條例所涵蓋的三個部分明顯是缺掉一大塊對啦你們一直在講戰力缺口嘛那這個缺口不是今天才有我們講的是國防自主的產業的發展對那其實我們115年國防部已經針對五款這個"},{"start":25931.885,"end":25955.018,"text":"軍用商規無人機編列13億無人機反制系統也編列4億多經濟部其實111年就領選了五款軍用商規無人機主導廠商國防部112年也簽原型機的小批量採購你們現在說的補戰力缺口是補沒有編國的缺口還是補前面的都執行完畢了嗎"},{"start":25956.199,"end":25977.465,"text":"當然是原來公務預算裡面所編列的就數量上金額上是不足的所以才必須編一個八年的一個特別條例跟特別預算那現在缺到這一塊不只是戰力的缺口是本土國防相關產業的自主發展對本土的產業是有絕對正面的需求跟幫忙的"},{"start":25977.765,"end":25994.979,"text":"對啦,我這個沒有反對啦但是把它刪掉啦你原本113年,我現在就要問你嘛,你做得到嗎就是說你3200多價的這個之前訂的,現在還沒來嘛那你現在後面又要再補,沒有關係你一口氣是要補到21萬價21萬價,我第一我想請問你,就是說"},{"start":25998.655,"end":26021.488,"text":"我們的目前台灣的產業能夠負荷這些東西嗎我們在現在整個民主供應鏈當中台灣是被需求的我們有這個量能製造出來我們需要結合民間所有無人機的產業聯盟共同來發展這個工作當初講說要做這些東西我們大家都沒有反對那你理由是說2027年大陸要打過來嗎"},{"start":26023.069,"end":26040.68,"text":"並不是這樣的理由啊沒有這樣的理由我們要發展我們本土國防相關產業的自主發展不是說誰要打過來不打過來那我們用台灣之盾或是這個高科技的擊殺鏈那是保障國家安全沒有錯但是這一塊4700億的大部分這一塊那是要發展"},{"start":26041.42,"end":26051.623,"text":"我們自主的產業所以把它拿掉難道要放棄自主發展的機會嗎我們的審計資料給你們講一下就是說國防及戰略產業從110年到113年政府已經編了228億執行了200億左右那執行率高達96.62%那也就是說錢不是沒有編錢也不是沒有花可是我們現在發現的問題就是說我們的無人機產業到112年"},{"start":26071.024,"end":26093.789,"text":"118年16個部會也在規劃無人機使用採購了4500多架投入的經費大概也有423億元再加上國防部自己的3410架我想請問一下你們說要快速形成無人機戰力政府在打造無人機產業的生產基地完工工程工期拖到117年測試基地從114年3月底都還沒定案"},{"start":26098.868,"end":26125.586,"text":"對不對我們在嘉義的雅創一期雅創二期發展的是相當順利而且從各大中小型的無人機一方面量要增加一方面也要增加我們國產自治率這個都是同步要提升這才是強化分子產業神蹟市的資料也寫民雄航太計無人機產業園區那總開發金額大概68億但預計完工期也延後了一年多那義足無人機測試基地是114年3月"},{"start":26129.008,"end":26153.676,"text":"民航局也未含附這個評估結果導致現在這個整個規劃都還沒定案你們說很急嘛我們要把這個國防弄起來一邊讓產業從117年才完工然後一邊說要大量無人機然後一邊讓測試基地到現在都沒有定案我想要問的就是說生產基地還沒有好測試基地還沒定你們這個以後的戰力要多久才能夠成型"},{"start":26154.669,"end":26173.027,"text":"我希望委員有時間你也可以到嘉義去看一看民雄的園區但裡面所有的國產的產業都進去了而且現在有70幾家產業都非常有興趣要集中在那個地方不能說我們是沒有行程那時間雖然稍微延誤了一點現在我們如果有更大的力量我們要把這個時間"},{"start":26174.688,"end":26193.377,"text":"這個效率把它提升回來 更要加速因為前面 我覺得我們的配套都還沒有做好了沒有做怎麼會雅創一期 雅創二期一直在發展下去我包含操作 還有一些使用還有我們無人機考這個執照目前人數都嚴重不足"},{"start":26194.552,"end":26207.145,"text":"所以我們要趕快把它補起來啊如果一直這樣子經費一直沒有下來一直沒有辦法支撐的話那你說的問題它永遠存在我們就是要改善改變這樣的現狀讓它能夠更有效率之前的3410架規模就已經發生28起這個事故"},{"start":26211.328,"end":26237.705,"text":"13人換照只有一人成功那未來如果進了那麼多誰要操作啊那誰換照誰附照那以後誰來訓練不是說我們買了一大堆然後放在倉庫裡面到時候沒人使用 並不是委員大概沒有辦法了解到我們現在無人機的進步我們從質跟量的進步在全世界我們是被需求的一端我們希望能夠善盡這個這樣的責任所以我們才提出這樣的一個我還是要建議就是說"},{"start":26238.906,"end":26256.961,"text":"我們有一個武器非常好用就是中華民國憲法這部憲法就是我們跟對岸最穩固的一個法理基礎也是維持兩岸合併最大的緩衝武器我希望在這個框架下用智慧去降低我們雙方的敵意這對整個台灣是最好的好不好好 謝謝邱委員好 謝謝卓院長"},{"start":26269.878,"end":26294.811,"text":"王逸川委員之質詢以書面提出請行政院書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報下一位請謝一鳳委員質詢包委員現在在議場二樓的貴賓席是美國國會議員選區主任的訪問團歡迎他們到立法院來Welcome to L.Y."},{"start":26299.409,"end":26320.425,"text":"謝委員請質詢好謝謝副院長請幫我請卓院長還有交通部陳次長速發部的林部長卓院長還有陳次長林部長請備詢謝委員好"},{"start":26329.485,"end":26350.785,"text":"院長午安我想請問一下交通部就是在5月6號的時候部長有被詢他有提到未來交通部準備要推動無人機的專屬航道修法那這個部分我想請教一下未來是國內"},{"start":26352.046,"end":26372.418,"text":"還是國際的這個無人機的載貨是用在國內還是國際的那以及這是不是能跟農業部的這個就是說未來我們如果可以推動國內的高價水果外銷的時候是不是也可以共用"},{"start":26374.74,"end":26393.034,"text":"我想跟委員報告一下有關無人機來使用這個載貨的原則上先從國內的空域先來做相關的一個試辦跟開放什麼時候開始這個需要由民航局來研議相關的法規之後來推動"},{"start":26394.268,"end":26416.844,"text":"這個部分5月6號的時候已經部長已經說你們那個部內在研議啦是不是我跟你們報告有關事辦的這樣的一個是沒有問題事辦我們從這個名號從郵政公司也好或者是運營所也好都有相關的一個事辦但是如果要變成一個推廣"},{"start":26420.626,"end":26440.878,"text":"提到的部分不只是國內喔還有是出網到菲律賓等等的無人機無人載具的載貨的航運喔是不是所以你們預計什麼時候以及相關的法規法令什麼時候起備"},{"start":26442.825,"end":26470.302,"text":"我想這部分我來準備相關的資料送給委員參考所以目前你還沒有掌握嗎因為相關的這個他們正在規劃中因為無人載具的相關的計畫是在行政院的這是整體的計畫那用跨部會的來做相關性的整合那我現在為什麼在院會的質詢提到那就是因為未來也有高價的"},{"start":26471.743,"end":26486.648,"text":"這個農作物也可以藉由無人載具的部分來做運輸運往其他鄰近的國家是不是跟委員報告這個當然要按部就班而走國內讓他成熟了"},{"start":26487.762,"end":26508.168,"text":"我們運作成熟了才有可能到國外因為國外還要牽扯到跟對方國之間非航非安很多法令上的一些雙邊的一些統合所以這個部分應該像國內我們先把這個整個無人機產業發展技術完備運送成熟之後我們才能進一步發展到國外去這個應該是有一個順序來做的"},{"start":26509.949,"end":26519.039,"text":"那法規法令呢有沒有辦法讓就是農業部的農糧署的相關的共同來對接呢有沒有辦法"},{"start":26519.659,"end":26544.896,"text":"如果需要到這樣子甚至還有一些非行非安簡易的問題都要全部納進來談這不是交通部自己能夠處理的那我是說從無人載具的部分因為畢竟無人載具智慧農業裡面也有相關的就是無人載具的應用的部分不管是噴農藥不管是載運貨物等等都有相關的這樣子的一個"},{"start":26546.258,"end":26554.269,"text":"那是不是未來在智慧農業的部分也能夠共同來使用無人機的航道呢"},{"start":26555.06,"end":26582.265,"text":"未來這個願景是對的我們對無人機在農業使用方面不要只停留在噴農藥的那樣一個使用那會不會太狹隘將來有可能我們整個無人機的技術成熟的載重的問題也可以擴充了那當然可以向外去延伸那這個時候相關法律就要整合農業部交通部整整行管都要去整合這個部分那我們會一步一步來做那如果今天委員已經提醒了那我會請"},{"start":26583.38,"end":26605.161,"text":"這個交通部先來做一個規劃將來有一天但是我覺得那個還是一個相當時間的一個討論跟準備你覺得不可行嗎你覺得太遠了嗎不是太遠我們必須從國內成熟以後再來處理我也跟委員報告其實剛才我特別提到交通部已經有相關的一個示範那像有關那個藥品的運送那衛福部也有"},{"start":26607.023,"end":26633.558,"text":"一些事辦投送的一個計畫那農業部噴灑這個農藥當然也都有但是這都僅止於事辦那如果剛才院長講如果就成熟了以後來推廣要相關有法規來律定這需要各單位跨部會來急難救助的時候投放不管是藥品也好食物也好物品也好這都是未來需要的部分"},{"start":26635.859,"end":26659.256,"text":"花蓮救災就有用過衛福部的同樣所以這個東西就是未來應該要共同的跨部會的合作跟發展嘛對不對不應該僅止於交通部對於就是無人載具運貨的部分嘛那農作物以及在內政部的相關的部分也應該要一併來做處理喔還有我就想要問到就是Grab"},{"start":26659.736,"end":26679.799,"text":"就是未來他們希望可以併購那個Fubenda那現在已經在審議了我想要請問交通部的是說未來怎麼樣確保原有的外送員的那個團保的傷害險以及第三人的責任險是可以無縫接軌的"},{"start":26680.6,"end":26699.471,"text":"如果5月15號他們現在已經補件了那補件公平會在審議當中怎麼樣確保如果有一天他併購了他Grab併購了Panda或者是以後怎麼樣子能夠確保他們的意外顯示無縫接軌的"},{"start":26700.151,"end":26729.673,"text":"我想跟委員報告有關外送員的這樣在我們國內是有一個外送員的一個專法在那個專法裡頭會有勞動部來對於這個外送員的相關的權益不是我在講的是那個第三責任險還有就是他在他的外送的權益裡頭就會就這個保險的部分來駕馭律定所以這一部分透過現在外送員的專法那各部會來訂定相關的一個執行的一個要點是可以來執行的"},{"start":26729.753,"end":26748.482,"text":"好 現在林部長在這裡所以我也順便問一下因為GREF它是否可以公開合併後的里程計費公式因為這樣子的公式會影響到外送員他每單討單的收益"},{"start":26749.022,"end":26772.777,"text":"那因為現在有一些利用數位APP壟斷或者是影響這個就是說剝奪到了這個外送員的接單的權益這影響到的層面很廣那交通部你有沒有辦法去去審查以及數位部是不是應該要提供相關的這樣子的一個技術呢"},{"start":26773.537,"end":26794.276,"text":"跟委員報告關於公開演算法這件事情事實上在技術上並不是太大的問題主要的問題會是在於說我們跟其他國家簽有一些有簽一些貿易協定有些貿易協定裡面會講說不得要求對方的公司在台灣設立據點的時候要求他"},{"start":26794.816,"end":26812.069,"text":"那個開放那個演算法這個是各國之間在做貿易談判可是今天涉及到因為公平會在審理涉及到那個獨佔或壟斷嘛因為Fu Panda跟那個Uber Eats對於台灣整體的這個外送市場是非常大的一個"},{"start":26814.111,"end":26827.769,"text":"那我也問過了公平會了Fubenda他一定是就是說有獨佔的這樣子的問題那未來如果Grab介入就是說到了台灣以後當然他相關的演算法甚至會不會"},{"start":26829.251,"end":26843.972,"text":"就是說它的那個業務範圍會不會開放到其他的就是運送的或者是像計程車等等的相關的領域這也是交通部以及數位部應該要共同來協助考量的對不對"},{"start":26845.118,"end":26859.827,"text":"是 就如同我剛才講的我們會去檢視跟其他國家簽訂的貿易協定裡面是不是有排除不能要求開放演算法的這個部分如果沒有的話那我們應該就可以"},{"start":26861.028,"end":26886.77,"text":"如果有的話或者是我是說當數位部今天在審查的時候因為他必須要對於這個相關的這個APP就是他的是不是會有數位壟斷的這部分做審查所以如果有法令的限制那就不能夠去調閱他的APP嗎他的演算法嗎他APP的演算法嗎當然有法律限制的話當然就不行但是沒有法律限制就可以啊"},{"start":26887.315,"end":26916.589,"text":"不是不是林部長你要確定喔因為那個公平會在審理的時候他會發文給GREP那你今天所說的話都會作為未來GREP在申請的時候相關的依據喔那你要對台灣的法規法律是很清楚的喔你不是只看外國的法規法令當然當然當然這個還是以台灣的法律為主是不是應該要以台灣的法規法律為主嘛是不是是當然啊"},{"start":26916.969,"end":26926.502,"text":"是不是還有我現在也有收到一個就是民眾在出國的時候我是不是能請NCC的代理主委"},{"start":26928.188,"end":26955.742,"text":"民眾在出國旅遊的時候他通常會選擇價格比較實惠的境外的這個eSIM那近期衍生出的個資還有隱私權疑慮台灣數位媒體經銷商的執行長邱繼宏他就點名了NCC以防炸為目的阻擋本土的電信業者要發展eSIM請問這個未來要怎麼營運"},{"start":26956.747,"end":26975.677,"text":"是跟委員報告這一部分是因為我們先前在打造條例第15條有規定所有申請電信服務必須要有做KYG就是實名制那早期所以目前的問題是說如果國內商家業者賣到國外的旅遊卡的話我們是要求他要做實名制那"},{"start":26977.439,"end":26997.256,"text":"呃那份報導也就是說民眾因為呃比較喜歡方便他不喜歡去臨櫃辦理或怎麼樣那我們現在正在找檢警還有電信業者來討論說在一定的條件下比方說那是既有的三家電信業者的用戶如果他在申請國外的一信卡的話那程序上可不可以做一些呃"},{"start":26999.137,"end":27023.222,"text":"風險考量之下作為適度的對應一些簡化處理那也跟委員報告這種情況其實在先前打造國家對立託在監管會那邊有曾經因為洗錢洗錢所以他國內網營的交易可是e-SIM卡也是在這個嗎因為你們我要請問的就是速發部的林部長在e-SIM卡怎麼樣子讓know your customer"},{"start":27023.882,"end":27042.352,"text":"這樣子的一個檢查的流程可以簡化讓我們的電信業者也可以來申辦呢我想這個問題還是就是剛才那個代理主委所講的KYC的部分就是我們要"},{"start":27043.393,"end":27070.11,"text":"看有沒有什麼辦法可以讓這個使用者對 你是不是應該設計台灣的eSIM卡的這樣子的一個身份認證讓這個身份認證可以檢疫然後可以讓台灣的電信業者也有辦法來做這個eSIM卡是不是是 各位報告第一點就是說台灣的eSIM卡現在其實是有開放不夠簡化"},{"start":27072.112,"end":27095.626,"text":"簡化部分我們正在研議但是KIC是可以討論可以檢討來可不可以重寬簡化但是不可能免為什麼不可以免第一個剛剛跟委員報告的達到條例15條是規定要KIC第二個過往這個網營洗錢這個詐騙集團是利用到境外去來操作這個網營洗錢後來金管會就把洗錢的IP鎖定"},{"start":27096.426,"end":27116.798,"text":"國外的IP全部擋掉如果說國內的電信商發行eSIM到國外使用國內不能使用即便是這樣子如果沒有KYC的話詐騙集團又會回頭來使用他來洗錢那如果台灣用按照你的說法台灣如果民眾用就是外國的eSIM卡"},{"start":27117.358,"end":27132.161,"text":"那他就會規避了這樣子的相關的那你也沒有辦法做相關的這個防範啊 是不是有 各位報告 現在網友洗錢今晚我只約定國內網友只能接受國內的IP就境外的"},{"start":27132.962,"end":27153.963,"text":"我是說那如果大家去國外旅遊用了e-Think卡這樣子的一個方式那你也沒有辦法做就是說know your customer的這樣子的相關的檢查那怎麼樣子協助國內的這個電信業者來簡化e-Think know your customer的這樣子的流程"},{"start":27154.403,"end":27180.073,"text":"我相信速發部應該要拿出魄力來解決這件事情我們會跟NCC研究為什麼我們要成立速發部呢我了解委員的意思就是要讓民眾現在因為民眾買台灣三大電信公司的eSIM卡必須臨櫃去辦理那就是要想辦法讓民眾可以不用臨櫃辦理又能做到KYC這有些技術上的挑戰但是應該你覺得可以克服對不對"},{"start":27182.033,"end":27208.858,"text":"那院長這樣子可以解決嗎報告委員在有效打炸的這個前提底下我們沒有安全的防範措施的時候我希望各個單位都能夠謹慎去處理那怎麼樣防止被詐騙呢第二個對於三大電信公司對本身已有的這個消費者他應該用簡化的方式讓他能夠進到eSIM卡這個新的一個潮流的來臨那請林部長再回答怎麼樣防止被詐騙呢"},{"start":27210.334,"end":27230.825,"text":"是就是剛剛那個院長所講的我們就是讓現有的那個三大電信公司的客戶他如果已經有SIM卡他要再去買一個國外的eSIM卡照理說應該會有一些方式那這個部分我們會跟NCC想辦法用技術的方式我們協助NCC要解決那有辦法解決是不是我們會努力應該是要這樣決定務必要謹慎好謝謝謝委員謝謝卓院長"},{"start":27240.103,"end":27267.779,"text":"下一位請林俊憲委員質詢好謝謝主席本席邀請我們行政院卓院長卓院長請備詢我們數富阿部的林部長我們NCC的陳代理主委林部長還有陳代理主委請備詢"},{"start":27273.348,"end":27299.457,"text":"林委員好 院長好 辛苦了院長這幾天最大的新聞可能就是醫美診所發現真恐偷拍的事件那其實在這個事件發生之前行政院的公共政策民眾參與平台上面就有這樣一個連署反對真恐攝影機的普及在這個醫美診所事件發生以前"},{"start":27300.8,"end":27326.89,"text":"連署達到9304個是所有的民意關注度前三名第一名這前三名就是印度移工的問題寵物用藥問題再來就是真空攝影機的問題表示民眾其實對這個事情早就非常的反感那我們來看看你隨便一抓最近發生的事情你看"},{"start":27327.403,"end":27339.618,"text":"高鐵的員工在台鐵的左營車站南廁所裝針孔偷拍台東有一家民宿還是得獎的好客民宿也在裡面偷裝"},{"start":27341.008,"end":27370.177,"text":"這房間偷裝針孔再來就是醫美診所現在發現好幾間都用假的煙霧偵測器用針孔藏在裡面偷拍還有發現一個大學生偷拍補習班捷運站幾十個人受害在溫泉會館泡湯也被偷拍而且影片非常惡劣賣到暗網賣到創意私房賺了一百多萬被檢察官起訴還有台鐵北車員工廁所"},{"start":27371.072,"end":27392.684,"text":"偷裝整個是內部自己員工結果也被逮捕了我要跟院長分享院長這個不是少數案件光是刑法妨害性隱私的這種刑案在2024年到2025年前年跟去年就增加了72%"},{"start":27394.577,"end":27421.938,"text":"增加超過1000件2024年有1613件2025年有2770件這是妨礙性隱私案還沒有包括妨礙秘密案真孔攝影機非常可怕來我再給院長你看一下院長在你的左邊它是一個廁所方向鍵你的右邊是冷氣出風口你看得出來它有裝真孔嗎"},{"start":27423.49,"end":27451.304,"text":"當然看不出來來你看針孔我把你飆起來都有偷裝針孔針孔攝影機可怕就是你根本看不出來這一次發生的醫美診所他偷裝在哪裡煙霧偵測器你要看這個煙霧偵測器啊他裝在裡面還好啊有一個消費者他覺得奇怪因為小小的房間怎麼會裝兩個煙霧偵測器呢其中一個還裝在最角落他就覺得那個位置也不大對"},{"start":27452.349,"end":27480.655,"text":"他警覺信號才發現像這樣的煙霧偵測器我去找一下網路上隨便就有在賣才賣3470塊而且還免運費一模一樣網路隨時去買就買不到像這樣的煙霧偵測器他其實是有無線射頻照理講他賣要跟NCC申請但可惜國家目前完全沒有管制"},{"start":27482.094,"end":27510.363,"text":"現在民眾連署就是這個真恐攝影機的問題按照行政院的規定連署已經達到9000多個政府一定要回覆這個問題而且時間就是5月19我不知道院長你現在心目中有沒有答案對於真恐攝影機政府要不要來處理好 謝謝委員再度提醒近日影響社會治安跟隱私保障的很重大的一個案件的來源"},{"start":27511.533,"end":27539.268,"text":"本質是這個攝影機它本身本身它現在並不是違禁品但是它如果涉及到無線攝頻它就必須要接受我們相關機關的一些認證等等的選擇目前只有認證沒有管制任何人都買得到沒有管理第二就是平台上販賣如果它販賣這種有無線攝頻也沒有管制它那就必須要管制它都可以啦我們現在要強化要做到這個部分"},{"start":27540.267,"end":27569.99,"text":"院長時間有限我認為有些東西我們要把它必須特別的管理現在就有政府對這些東西都有特別管理我舉例子SIM卡手機大哥大龍藥肥料處方藥危險的化學物品像強酸強鹼或者是有一些合法的槍爆彈藥例如原住民使用或者運動使用這些政府怎麼管理實名制管理"},{"start":27571.26,"end":27600.343,"text":"我們台灣的農藥 我要肯定行政院 管理得非常好我們的農藥 誰在生產生產完 生產哪些東西生產完 給到一個經銷商哪些商店在買誰買走這些農藥百分之百 政府都有管理多年建立起來的一套流程我認為 真孔攝影機政府也應該要比照把它列為特殊物品應該要來進行管理"},{"start":27600.834,"end":27627.917,"text":"目前是完全沒有管理因為我在想如果我要買針孔攝影機我要做什麼你想得出如果你要買你什麼用途你會用到針孔攝影機我是在想不出我覺得一般的商業場所他如果要公然的那你裝監視器他必須有標示必須告知監視器那是另外一個合法使用用途的你針孔通常因為看不到"},{"start":27629.096,"end":27656.429,"text":"他這種高度隱密性根本一般人不會察覺那我認為政府應該要用特殊的物品把它管理因為發生太多件我剛給院長看光是妨礙性隱私一年就增加72%增加1000多件我覺得我們應該要來思考修正電信管理辦法我們要把真孔攝影機也要把它實名制管理就誰要生產生產以後"},{"start":27657.506,"end":27677.334,"text":"你賣給誰就比照農藥這種特殊物品的這樣的一個流程誰生產在哪個店賣你要誰買走SIM卡也可以農藥肥料都有這樣的管理還有電商應該全部下架了我剛給你看的那個煙霧偵測器的針孔三千幾塊而已還免運費所以平台不應該賣這個我覺得跨部會到 蘇華部這種"},{"start":27686.274,"end":27707.375,"text":"平台的網路電腦也要來管理一下就算還沒修法以前我們政府有些公共場域我們要先做最容易發生真空偷拍的就是一些交通場站我們目前也沒有SOP台鐵 高鐵 機場 民進黨局的各機場我去調查訪問"},{"start":27710.902,"end":27739.743,"text":"每個禮拜的 去檢查 也有每個月的還有每日募試 眼睛看著看著 被嚇的那幹嘛不可能嘛所以台鐵啊 就有一個廁所等你抓到他偷裝了 他已經存在九個月了才被發現他是公共的廠站 就交通運輸的廠站 公共廁所這是我們進屋外做的或者是像一些旅宿業 也常發生啦觀光旅宿業啦"},{"start":27740.481,"end":27768.086,"text":"小寶柱曾經去稽查台灣21家旅宿有11家業者說他有自主執行反真孔結果這11家裡面其中有一家他自主執行是肉眼目測先扣掉根本就看不到第二個造假主流說有其實也沒有做所以大概21家只有9家有執行現在真孔這種已經造成民眾人心惶惶"},{"start":27769.291,"end":27791.332,"text":"現在很多人去公共場所或是去便利商店都拿手機這樣大度拍因為你的手機的那個照相機如果有針孔的話它會閃光它會偵測到紅外線的視頻所以現在民眾大家都拿手機在那裡掃來掃去你去住旅館房間或是進到一些公共廁所所以我認為這個問題政府要嚴肅來看待"},{"start":27795.279,"end":27822.18,"text":"政府有義務免除民眾這種恐懼之語所以我們必須要嚴格的來訂定一套管理的規要準謝謝院長那我要再跟你討論第二個問題之前我們在講高德地圖大家說高德地圖很危險因為他有九項的資料國安局講的喔國安局說他有九項的資料他會回傳給中國那其中啊也有民眾發現高德地圖他可以偵測到紅綠燈的跳描"},{"start":27823.311,"end":27849.802,"text":"所以如果我在總統府附近總統官邸或院長行政院長總院長的官邸附近我發現洪麗珍的控制秒數啊異常平常是30秒現在變成了一分半鐘那我知道院長要進出啦所以啊高的地圖啊政府有警覺性因為他來自中國中國的國家情報法還有網路安全法他要求中國的廠商啊有義務相關資料回饋給中共"},{"start":27852.062,"end":27872.988,"text":"所以我們現在的做法我認為還是比較消極啦就是禁止公務人員使用那公交單位也不能使用可是蘇華部長在這裡我們只注意到中國的地圖的這些資料那其他一般的呢五年前我也質詢過來我給左院長看一下"},{"start":27873.756,"end":27901.238,"text":"這張地圖有什麼你知道嗎?這一張是花蓮加山基地你現在手機拿起來在Google地圖你跟我一樣就可以拍到就可以看到加山地圖這麼清楚的圖像戰鬥機進出的山洞跑道的長度彈尿褲指揮所看得一清二楚我五年前就質詢說你這樣加山基地顧載人家看軍事基地可以這樣子嗎?完全沒有改變"},{"start":27903.868,"end":27932.207,"text":"我再給你看院長你的左邊有模糊的這同樣都是拍嘉山基地還有一個花蓮基地在旁邊Apple的地圖Apple的地圖他把它遮起來了那右邊是Microsoft微軟的地圖還是一樣看得一清二楚這可見我們沒有管理哪有標準"},{"start":27934.023,"end":27962.76,"text":"為什麼蘋果的地圖遮起來為什麼微軟還有Google沒有遮起來那我們內政部做的台灣通用地圖這些東西都遮起來可見我們知道有些東西是不能被看到來我再給你看中國掌握中國一個網站你隨便看他分析我們台灣這是哪裡嘉義空軍基地那中國的網友甚至把我們空軍基地裡面的建築物幫我們標記出來空軍基地裡面的"},{"start":27963.69,"end":27993.073,"text":"彈尿褲女性官兵生活大樓他都知道空勤人員新建的他也知道新建的以前沒有吧生活大樓他也標記出來這樣可以嗎他甚至還嚇我們因為他有拍到憲兵使用一台V150他說那是老古董的裝甲車台灣還在用我問過空軍空軍跟我說他不能證實啦但是大方向沒錯啦好我再給"},{"start":27993.82,"end":28019.299,"text":"院長看一張照片你的照片左邊這一群人在飛彈發射車前面拍照其中有一個人用青蛙圖把他臉遮起來那個人是誰賴清德總統因為這中國的網站用中國不准出現賴清德的面孔著弄他的面孔所以你哪出現在中國的網站地圖他會把你的臉遮起來賴清德的臉被遮起來了"},{"start":28020.168,"end":28040.774,"text":"但是中國網友很厲害他利用那個屋頂他推測出賴清德跟這些將領跟這些來賓拍的地方在台灣的清水營區你看有多可怕他用Google地圖這樣去推測賴清德在哪裡我再給你看Google地圖"},{"start":28042.318,"end":28069.909,"text":"中國利用Google地圖把我們所有的軍事基地連座標啦經緯度座標都要給你標記出來恆山指揮所啦大子營區啦叫海軍司令部中勇營區叫我們空軍司令部啦博愛營區啦通通給你標記出來可以這樣子嗎那為什麼國外的地圖蘋果就遮起來內政部的地圖也遮起來那其他蘋果跟維朗的地圖就隨便他看我們來看一下韓國"},{"start":28072.886,"end":28092.484,"text":"韓國的地圖他規定全部要遮起來所以你的左邊是美軍基地韓服瑞營右邊是韓國清華台總統府的地圖我們來看法國法國也是法國是規定Google還有Bitmap就微軟還有Apple全部遮起來"},{"start":28093.883,"end":28120.102,"text":"跟委員報告 因為目前我們台灣事實上有法律可以管就是內政部的國土測惠法對這方面應該有一些相關的規定謝謝委員提醒我們速發部會跟內政部去討論協商現在都看得到然後如果說這些都是就是我們有法源依據的話我們速發部就會五年前就執行過 我要提醒卓榮泰院長我們要趕快來進行管理像韓國 韓國原本是不准Google落地"},{"start":28120.862,"end":28135.814,"text":"Google地圖韓國人不能用那韓國最近有開放但是他有提出相關的限制軍事敏感設施啦還有限制性的地圖座標有些地方你不可以表示反正他就是有些地方敏感地方你全部不可以"},{"start":28136.921,"end":28166.236,"text":"顯露出來為什麼感謝委員委員今天這個提醒非常非常的重要我要求蘇法部對這些國際性的平台Apple可以做到其他沒有理由不做到我們強力要求他競速類要做有效的改善但中國的部分我覺得我們沒有辦法去約束他但是我們做好自己的準備中國的部分像高度他拍不到因為高度他沒有衛星他只有地圖圖資他現在還沒有像這個Apple還有那個"},{"start":28169.99,"end":28176.935,"text":"跟委員報告,那個高德的地圖是跟荷蘭一家公司叫HERE TECHNOLOGY買的所以我們應該想辦法去跟他們溝通"},{"start":28194.198,"end":28216.575,"text":"下一位魯明哲委員之質詢已書面提出請行政院書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報報告院會本日排定質詢的委員均已詢答完畢謝謝昨天長期相關部會首長列席答詢現做以下決定下次會議繼續進行交通組之質詢現在散會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}