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召委委員大家早安謝謝大院邀請本院來這邊進行施政計畫及預算及科學基金的報告好 下一頁首先報告本院的近期的願務重點好 下一頁"},{"start":2035.049,"end":2060.231,"text":"我們在幾個月前宣布本院自研自製的20位員超導量子電腦這個製程的實力已經進入全球領先群此外呢天文及天文物理研究所發現宇宙星火的源頭這個研究揭示了隱藏的恆星染料庫地球科學研究所發現台灣地震活動與水文作用引起的地殼硬力變化的關聯性"},{"start":2063.206,"end":2087.454,"text":"基因体研究中心发现一个叫做DEHP的塑化剂高曝露结合代谢易感性与初期较早会提高女性乳癌风险高达7倍分子生物研究所发现低剂量营养补充品可以改善自闭症小组的行为缺陷"},{"start":2088.356,"end":2116.766,"text":"农业生物科技研究中心发现台湾香蕉基因体研究的结果可以揭示对抗黄叶病的育种的解方黄叶病是香蕉非常重要的一个疾病下一件在文史方面十一所的林木惠可助研究员他发表了一个著作作为历史资料的雕塑日治时期台湾铜像建设及其遗产"},{"start":2117.813,"end":2137.076,"text":"人文社会科学研究中心蔡明璋特聘研究员发表中国与台湾的代监向上移转家庭仪式的追踪分析欧美研究所黄敏雄研究员发表八年级学生参与校外补习的跨国与跨年分析"},{"start":2139.98,"end":2154.461,"text":"我們在原住民研究方面我們不斷的深化原住民族研究及數位展示我們在幾個禮拜前與嘉義縣鄒族部落合作推出第六屆工作展鄒族回家的一個工作展"},{"start":2157.031,"end":2184.491,"text":"我们在培育英才方面我们持续推动国际博士生计划并且推广到全世界各大学叫TIGBX我们也设置了人文社会科学博士生的精英奖学金针对人社科领域的全国的博士生给予奖学金我们在"},{"start":2186.051,"end":2212.357,"text":"強化攬財留財方面我們推動了人事三件的政策首先我們以這個卓越研究學者來延攬具國際市場競爭力及報酬待遇及重要資源以這方式來吸引全世界最好的人才並且我們有個特殊延長服務就是所謂的二次長聘此外我們也放寬新聘員額的限制我們也推出了中研學者的計畫"},{"start":2215.68,"end":2233.377,"text":"我們也跟台灣的多所大學一起啟動了台灣橋樑計畫今年總共邀請了超過36位諾貝爾獎得主其中有11位來到本院與國內與本院的研究人員交流"},{"start":2236.482,"end":2254.613,"text":"我們也積極的連結國際學術在上禮拜我們開了一個與 UCLA 跟 Kyoto University 辦的三邊研討會這個研討會今年是第二次舉行 將來還會繼續下去"},{"start":2258.1,"end":2271.021,"text":"我们在南部院区运作的情形我们建立了关键议题研究中心并且设立了人文及社会科学的研究基地今年1月我们也首度在南部院区举办开幕周年的音乐会"},{"start":2273.271,"end":2296.628,"text":"我们持续推动院级的科普讲座下一个中研讲堂规划于6月要到高雄的凤山高中去与当地师生及在地民众分享科普的心知我们也持续举办暑期营队与实习活动有关本院115年度的预算编列情形如下"},{"start":2298.356,"end":2303.31,"text":"我们今年的年度预算115年是154亿左右"},{"start":2304.352,"end":2332.274,"text":"较114年度的法定数140亿增加了13.89亿元增历的部分主要是学术研究与人才培育向下的AI创新应用及智慧医疗等计划扩充及各所研究成本上涨及AI计算软硬体设施扩充其他的详细的内容请各位参见书面报告谢谢"},{"start":2337.935,"end":2360.175,"text":"謝謝廖院長的報告我是想說今天是我們廖院長來到中央研究院來主持應該是滿十年了在這裡真的非常謝謝他這十年來帶領中央研究院所做出的各種奉獻與貢獻"},{"start":2362.197,"end":2382.33,"text":"所以今天應該也是我們邀請中央研究院廖院長來立法院正式做報告的應該是正式的最後一次所以是不是在這邊我們用最深的謝誠來特別謝謝廖院長謝謝您以及您所帶領的團隊謝謝"},{"start":2391.129,"end":2409.103,"text":"真的很感動啊真的很感動謝謝您在這裡我們也繼續介紹在場的委員我們陳培宇委員好機關代表報告完畢相關的書面資料請各位參閱並列入公報記錄"},{"start":2412.54,"end":2439.427,"text":"现在我们开始进行询答每位初席委员质询6分钟列席委员质询时间是4分钟均不再延长发言登记截止时间上午10时委员如果有临时提案请在上午10点30分前提出并于预算审查完毕后再行处理处理提案时若提案委员及联署委员均不在场"},{"start":2439.967,"end":2446.314,"text":"原例不予處理首先我們請登記第一位的柯智恩委員進行詢答謝謝主席我們是不是請廖院長有請廖院長"},{"start":2458.886,"end":2474.494,"text":"各位院長早院長早成為剛剛主席所提到的領軍中研院十年你是橫跨了我們的蔡總統跟我們的賴總統以你個人的經驗你覺得這兩位總統你跟他見面的次數比較多然後比較願意接受你的建議是哪一位"},{"start":2475.714,"end":2488.724,"text":"兩個都差不多事實上中研院非常強調量化你應該告訴我們哪個次數比較多一點我們事實上是強調重值不重量所以哪一位的值比較好"},{"start":2490.686,"end":2506.796,"text":"那討論的面向是不一樣那跟蔡總統是一個禮月到兩個月最多三個月會約見面一次那有時候也會帶一些我們院裡面的同仁院士那帶總統呢"},{"start":2508.097,"end":2509.979,"text":"赖总统是一个月一次"},{"start":2537.797,"end":2537.977,"text":"这怎么办"},{"start":2562.659,"end":2592.191,"text":"我想重视的程度不能以经费的多寡来判断特别是人文社会科学的研究因为比较不需要贵重的仪器是但是院长我还是要提醒其实跟你们人文社科的研究员其实都有接触他们甚至觉得往往他们所的研究经费里面通常都是理工科的零头而已举例来说你们的明清研究推动委员会事实上在国际上是享受名誉的但是你的预算常常就是一个砍半而且呢"},{"start":2592.611,"end":2614.126,"text":"很多时候他要各筹经费更有多人你刚提到的南部南院的东西目前有很多人希望你的南院能够落实人文社会科学的永续发展而不是像目前的实验型的计划我提出这些来只是提醒这个东西你即将交棒应该给陈建仁院长更多在这方面的一个提示因为这是中研院非常多人很期待的好不好"},{"start":2614.506,"end":2637.999,"text":"然后接下来因为时间非常有限近邻科技这个当中是你跟蔡政府所提出来的而且去碳燃氢是被蔡总统认为是应该来优先来部分我也给予肯定因为你比较2023年的时候在我们新达电厂实际上是成功运转的而且这一次的经费当中比去年还增加了六成没有错吧所以目前的研发进度到如何了"},{"start":2638.459,"end":2660.68,"text":"因为就我跟你们跟台电的这个分工来去看的话你们综演院已经提早做好的系统但是呢还要等台电购买发电机组还要建设这个试验的场域但是呢台电很抱歉是12月要绝标但是流标到今年4月才开标这样会不会造成你们往后一些试验场的建制还有等等的这个发电的测试期程会受到延宕"},{"start":2661.651,"end":2687.14,"text":"就我了解這已經這個決標了那詳細請那個陳一高主任來說我們是不是節省一下時間因為還有很多其他好不好主任陳主任怎麼樣而且我還講一個你們本來就是提高的這個混清比例是20%嘛對不對可是國際已經30%了我覺得你們目前來說的話既然已經有成功而且我覺得真的可以對我們這個減碳來說造成一個很好的一個效果你不覺得這個太保守了嗎20%太保守了"},{"start":2688.761,"end":2700.807,"text":"包括委員他們決標是這個發電機本身但是現場的工程都已經開始進行所以應該不會延宕太久對 原來我們只要知道這個部分裡面所以這部分不會延宕因為目前來說我們新達你看五部的舊的燃氣機組要延逸十年"},{"start":2705.789,"end":2707.609,"text":"2025没有办法达成2026看起来有机会达成吗"},{"start":2731.611,"end":2736.001,"text":"所以我們希望驅探人性能盡快的發展我們也希望啦 可是目前為止你覺得2027的時候我還不會看到還是在20GW吧"},{"start":2740.9,"end":2768.546,"text":"這個大家都在努力做那回答委員剛才問的20%的這個混清現在30%都是機組的極值所以如果用極值一直運轉的話它的保固期沒辦法維持所以原廠建議是用60%到70%的運轉的能量所以就是20%不是說我們都非常期待能夠立刻能夠來去做這樣一個部分然後光電板的部分這是所以我知道你們有"},{"start":2769.326,"end":2788.306,"text":"研发这个高效能的这个光电板因为光电板在占据我们国土面积太大了即使是高效能的话这样子的土地面积你看非常的可怕这个就是而且目前来说已经要重启核电的这样的可能你觉得我们台湾还需要这么多的光电吗因为这个东西的回收造成很大的环境污染这是个事实吧"},{"start":2788.706,"end":2808.558,"text":"好報告委員這個光電板的回收技術本身呢可以讓光電板回收到90幾個percent沒有問題可是呢市場上有沒有這個需求他就能不能夠處理是另外一個問題這部分呢等到我們過了10年20年光電板的回收的量足夠之後呢市場可能就可以消化比較大的"},{"start":2808.598,"end":2835.655,"text":"我们实在是很困难我只是希望说能够在发展这个绿能的时候呢也能够保护我们环境的一个需求谢谢来我们最后几个问题宣传费的部分里面你们比去年增加了三百万我还是要提醒院长目前以生医转移研究为例的话你们是由这个生医转移研究中心来负责但是不好意思你们的YouTube包括你们整个的这个流量来说我还是要特别提出来还是远远的"},{"start":2836.115,"end":2854.162,"text":"不如好不好这个部分里面可能等一下我们在做讨论的时候可能要给我们一个解释这就是一个我们所看到的媒体的成效因为增加了我们给经费但是这个成效该怎么来说还有人才交流的部分不好意思我们人才的交流部分来说你们有四个计划但是呢我们通常"},{"start":2854.742,"end":2875.217,"text":"指导的这个执行的部分当中四个计划当中呢其实你可以看下面一个你们的资源都非常强调在短期年轻学者短期赴国外参加国际研究的部分你们发现全部集中在这个地方另外有关于年轻学者的进修还有包括赴国外研究还有包括整个交换说实在的"},{"start":2875.757,"end":2898.03,"text":"这个目标远比你们所提到的其实是完全落差很大而且呢有关于短期的这个经费当中短期会议的经费当中你们的预算远比决算远比预算多出非常的多这个都是你们在编列预算的时候早就应该想到的早就应该想到的因为已经连续几年你们的决算都比预算来出高很多没错吧那今年呢还会有这个问题吗"},{"start":2899.042,"end":2915.259,"text":"歐委員今年不會再有這個問題先前預算間接和決算有差距是疫情造成的出國數量的影響我說這個東西都要預先想到我們可以大概在所有的立法委員在這個地方中研院的預算我們基本上是不會刪"},{"start":2916.44,"end":2944.514,"text":"冻结话提出这个问题所以是给大家中研院极度的尊重跟极度的部分但是我们还认为在这个部分里面的不管是预算决算那个整个的落差比不应该都是如此而且我刚刚所提出来这四项当中其实都是强调在短期国际会议其他几项你们也很重视其实执行的成效上其实并不好这部分都是未来中研院在编列预算或在提醒计划的时候都应该非常清楚的我们还注意这一块谢谢"},{"start":2945.174,"end":2952.614,"text":"谢谢最后请问一下院长你6月20号卸任之后就反美国还是继续留在台湾"},{"start":2953.956,"end":2982.13,"text":"我会先到美国两个礼拜就参加两个国际会议你不用跟我讲那么细节没关系我是说未来的光未来未来未来是我会在这个生化所继续当特别研究员所以你会继续在台湾来做这样的部分好 乐见我们中研院都有非常好的专家都能够继续为中研院来效力感谢你过去十年的经验虽然咨询台上都有摩擦但是我们还是肯定你过去十年为中研院的一个成效不过能够告别立法院也是好事一桩好吧"},{"start":2983.25,"end":3001.084,"text":"我想任何人所以昨天大家虽然给你拍了手但是我想中原会给你最好的一个welfare party但是就绝对不会在立法院感谢谢谢谢谢科珍委员的咨询请廖院长回座接下来有请陈培宇委员进行询答"},{"start":3005.316,"end":3031.724,"text":"好 謝謝主席我剛剛問柯先生委員他罵了院長幾年他說十年這樣好 來院長有請謝謝院長辛苦了有請廖院長這位院長好 院長辛苦了再一次謝謝院長這十年來維中研院為台灣的付出我們今天待會要講的案子我比較說它會是個案但是我們不希望針對個案來討論我們希望在院長離開之前我們就通案來進行討論來 第一個"},{"start":3033.544,"end":3051.244,"text":"我知道中研院一直有一些研究在進行所以在研究的時候不論是受到委託或者是中研院自己的案子都會有一些數據採集的事情要做那我們看到之前的社群平台上有一個民眾發文他說有自稱中研院的研究人員要求對小孩進行抽血然後採樣"},{"start":3052.205,"end":3070.854,"text":"但是呢不給抽血還請了大家這是現場呢大家感受到的這個對話內容讓人非常不舒服讓人產生困惑當然後續我們看到國健署有立刻出來說明這是國健署委託中研院的研究我們看了一下符合人體研究法也有做IRB的審核這都沒有問題那我們來看一下下一個"},{"start":3073.002,"end":3100.827,"text":"這個是在苗栗縣政府的一個道路看到有這個卯釘大家就覺得很奇怪原來市中研院有一個研究案研究技師沒有經過縣市政府主管機關的申請跟報備還有同意的情況底下在道路的路間打入這個卯釘讓大家會擔心啊腳踩到或者是車子經過車子會爆胎之類的這個一樣他不是採取人體的血液樣本可是呢相關的資訊其實沒有被告知院長我已經說了我今天雖然一剛開始講是兩個"},{"start":3102.047,"end":3122.082,"text":"但我認為整體通案上我們希望中研院到底在未來跟各級的研究人員不論是助理研究員或是各級的研究員在進行研究的時候採集樣本做相關數據的收集的時候或者是必須像做這樣的事情如何跟在地政府主管機關如何跟民眾甚至是受測者做更多的溝通來院長請簡單回應一下我們不要針對個案"},{"start":3125.305,"end":3141.318,"text":"謝謝委員這個方面我們會加強宣導那確實這個因為不管再怎麼樣宣導仍然會有個案但是我們仍然會努力跟所有研究員強調說要跟這個地方民眾做最好的宣傳最好的溝通"},{"start":3141.758,"end":3162.663,"text":"或者是我們在研究這個的時候我們在想說會不會很多研究員他們其實不是真的很了解這個程序或是他們可能真的跟縣市政府溝通有困難也許這個部分也要拜託中研院一起幫忙以這個個案而言是跟廠商的這個督工沒有做到很完整的地步所以這個跟其他問題有點不一樣"},{"start":3163.063,"end":3188.184,"text":"好 因为每个研究的个案状态不一样嘛但我想通案来考虑不要让民众觉得好像被打扰生活被干扰当然我相信很多人都很愿意配合台湾的相关研究好 来那再来下一个前一阵子我们在质询国科会还有书发布的时候我们一直在谈AI语料的建设这件事情那确实在AI新十大建设里面呢谈到主权AI不论是现在的泰德或者是之前来下一张"},{"start":3188.584,"end":3212.786,"text":"或是之前的抒發部林靜部長他有公開的時候說他說人工智慧的發展對人類社會帶來的影響已經不是要不要用而是去考慮如何承擔結構性的衝擊那我們在教文委員會我們不斷跟國科會或者是跟抒發部在討論建制台灣AI語料他們也都非常清楚AI語料的建制不能只靠公部門的資料尤其是現在"},{"start":3213.266,"end":3242.592,"text":"已經釋出的資料都是來自公部門所以現在必須要積極跟民間產業手上擁有最多內容的民間產業合作不論是報紙雜誌廣播電視電影這些都需要好回過頭來看我們發現另外一個困境跟院長報告就是來下一張以中研院的好以中研院的對不起下一張以中研院的角度來說有大量的研究資料其實都是建立於台灣本地的研究對不對例如說我剛剛隨便舉的那兩個例子"},{"start":3243.212,"end":3269.537,"text":"所以以这些本地的研究它如何去协助扩充这个AI预料我认为现在所有的授权法规在现行的授权法规底下很多中研院的研究不论是委托出去的或者是受到委托的或者是自行研究的内容大概都没有办法放入此时此刻述法部或是国科会在协助建制的AI预料这个部分我想听林凯院长你的看法"},{"start":3270.377,"end":3299.249,"text":"这部分我们会大力促成委员讲的这个状况也是我们院内努力的目标但是据我们了解最大的问题是在于助作权法的问题没错助作权法的限制使得这些语料没有办法拿去给AI的训练者使用所以现在目前我们认为说在修法上有非常急迫的迫切性能够修改这部分的中研院有在启动"},{"start":3299.409,"end":3324.201,"text":"相关讨论吗我请问一下可不可以你们就回答好不好没关系委员好谢谢委员关于这个重要的课题那我们其实在众议院设计的AI办公室以及推动过程之中愿意指示我们做一个整个资料库的清查包括我们现在有89个资料库目前清查比如授权的问题以资产的问题以及还有包括研究人员符合问题的前提之下我们希望能够开放那"},{"start":3324.941,"end":3339.353,"text":"前面我们现在分为两部分一部分是跟你跟台德就国内的这样的一个AI的这个大隐形模型做一个合作的关系我们提供了将近有113万的一个笔包括SQA的那个资料库以及我们相关的图像做多模态的训练"},{"start":3340.154,"end":3363.439,"text":"同时我们也跟Google建立起联系的管道我们希望我们通过我们清理在资料合理和就是说在授权范围的合乎情之下在互惠合作的前提之下我们希望跟Google进行合作那我们最近开了几次会了那Google对我们能够使用提供繁体方面的资料库也是感到兴趣的这个会议的内容是可以公开的吗"},{"start":3364.199,"end":3392.635,"text":"沒有問題我們可以提供給委員好再麻煩提供給委員辦公室如同你剛剛說的不論是泰德要持續做或者是跟國外的這些大語言模型公司其實授權不是只有授權兩個字這麼簡單它可能分成訓練階段的授權REG的授權還有API的授權每一個階段的授權可能對於很多研究員來說對於研究報告來說大家都會有不同的想像跟希望有不同的授權範圍而對於這些大語言模型公司來說他們可能拿到希望是最完整的"},{"start":3393.575,"end":3420.166,"text":"對國內的研究者來說是不是願意但是我認為背後要有共識其實非常的困難而且可能也不是現在的著作權法可以所有一次到位的所以後續也要拜託當然我也會持續跟國科會還有書發部討論後續在修相關著作權法的時候務必要把中研院拉進團隊裡頭因為我認為台灣非常多重要的研究必須要進到這個餘量模型當中後續也要再拜託中研院"},{"start":3420.966,"end":3431.032,"text":"請眾人願意也可以在三個月內提供相關報告給我們辦公室就是關於授權這個部分還有之前已經跟一些語言模型公司開的會議記錄可以嗎"},{"start":3433.839,"end":3455.22,"text":"好我们会努力好那最后一个呢一分钟就好院长我要谢谢你之前我在三年前进到立法院当时呢我就跟院长许愿我希望有儿童科普日院长及之即行立刻有所行动而且呢我看院长在现场也玩得很开心希望院长是真的很开心那我也要再次谢谢所有参与儿童科普日的所有的老师们"},{"start":3455.76,"end":3475.832,"text":"所有的帮忙设计活动的人因为你们愿意为儿童付出愿意在中研院的场地当中创造出这个氛围我希望未来院长就算您离开了有机会我们可不可以让儿童科普活动持续下去好谢谢我们一定让它持续下去拜托一定要交接给陈建仁院长好谢谢院长谢谢"},{"start":3477.944,"end":3487.07,"text":"謝謝陳培宇委員質詢 請院長跟各代表回座接下來我們有請葛如君委員進行詢答謝謝主席 有請廖院長好 請廖院長"},{"start":3507.012,"end":3526.001,"text":"各位委員早院長好其實很感動看到剛剛兩位委員質詢可以說充滿笑聲那我想院長的這個成績也真的是很不錯但是我想要讓社會要讓我們的國家的進步要讓我們的研究員也充滿笑聲才是最正確的"},{"start":3527.202,"end":3551.248,"text":"我想在您的任內 中研院這個我國最高學術研究機構積極地面對國家重大議題包含淨零科技 量子科技 AI 還有這個生技 人才延攬 跨域研究那您過去被問及任職中研院的成果的時候曾經說分為兩個面向 一個是制度建立 一個是關注社會的需求那我想制度建立 您建立得非常好啦"},{"start":3551.468,"end":3579.31,"text":"那關注社會的需求我想現在最重要的就是AI那AI這個黃仁勳講的這個五層蛋糕最底層也就是最重要的一層您知道是什麼嗎數據基礎建設好 數據基礎建設再來最底層的就是能源我想您也應該可以記得那我想如果沒有能源其實我們完全沒有辦法做任何的推進沒有穩定乾淨的能源很多事情都沒有辦法執行"},{"start":3580.211,"end":3591.202,"text":"那這一句話我國若不積極投入研發或投資錯誤的方向當然也可以說是能源的部分不僅將自信困境更將錯失積極發展新技術開發新市場的絕佳機會您知道這句話出自何處嗎"},{"start":3596.247,"end":3611.198,"text":"大概很多人講過類似的話吧這句話是出自中研院111年提出的台灣淨零科技研發政策建議書那現在其實各國都在積極響應核能這個低碳的能源 超低碳"},{"start":3612.339,"end":3640.357,"text":"賴總統也感謝立法院來修核管法並且將核三廠再運轉報告也送交核安會但是過去十幾年在政治力疑似干擾之下核能相關的事務好像被打壓核安會遭到降級核工系越來越難受到支持跟歡迎國研院也委託大專院校執行的核能研究計畫的經費逐年下降這是我們看到這個數字"},{"start":3642.798,"end":3659.064,"text":"這個110年度到114年度甚至連續兩年掛零這個不正是中學院建議書當中所說的投資錯誤方向制限困境嗎其實本席要是在這裡借重這個機會要來肯定您支持核電重啟的立場"},{"start":3660.56,"end":3674.711,"text":"那我想這些話應該也都是院長您說過的吧是這其實我也非常感動啦代表您是有學者的風骨本席也要懇贈中醫院在各項人員方面的努力但是啊過去近05之前"},{"start":3676.112,"end":3692.045,"text":"聚碳燃氫 高效太陽光電 海洋人 地熱能 生殖碳會其實獨露了核能其實今天是5月21號其實也是本席去年在這個地方同一個地方向您提出淨零五加一的建議一周年"},{"start":3693.226,"end":3722.726,"text":"那過去其實礙於您的身份或者各種的這些議題您沒有辦法承諾進行5加1有說是國研院的能力太強了中研院有自己的強項說如果核能的部分牽涉到基礎研究的話中研院願意投入這是您去年這個時間那您說願意投入基礎研究基礎性的研究那中研院這一年來是不是有和核安會或原能會或者是國研院需要什麼樣的基礎研究有沒有做交流"},{"start":3723.506,"end":3748.451,"text":"並且做什麼樣的合作有嗎 可以回應一下嗎基礎研究的面向主要是這個我說核能的部分對 那這部分我們確實是沒有跟這個國研院有做這個相關的討論那我們跟委員報告我們所謂的近鄰幾支箭指的是在中研院本身我們就能夠大力推動的範圍"},{"start":3750.071,"end":3775.379,"text":"否則我們喊出變成一個口號而已我們沒有辦法推動的項目是 其實為什麼我在這裡講是因為最早我們一開始就說您說了制度建立關注社會需求社會需求能源嘛全世界都在關注核能技術基礎研究新式核能的發展我們近05之間就獨露核能其實真的非常可惜那您剛剛也說了"},{"start":3775.759,"end":3799.458,"text":"沒有跟河岸會國園院做溝通和合作其實也是蠻可惜的也想要請教院長您知道國園院有規劃一個您說那國園院做得很多做得很棒您知道國園院有規劃一個四年十億SMR的中長城計劃嗎有聽說但是不了解內容很好其實這個我們也在這裡幫國園院叫屈就是說其實賴總統有一個這樣的心事核能的方向"},{"start":3800.515,"end":3818.26,"text":"其實您作為中研院的院長也一直支持核能其實是一個選項可是我們這個SMR計畫我之前還才講說編太少結果我們今年來關心說國研院在國科會科技辦這裡的決議竟然115年度本來我已經說10億太少"},{"start":3823.346,"end":3837.585,"text":"4年10億結果竟然還被砍半4年4.8億老實說我們真的是對於這種新式核能花的錢有點覺得這樣真的夠嗎可以靠這樣這個老實說我們算了一下一年1.2億"},{"start":3838.707,"end":3866.79,"text":"可能只買得起逃租引援的廁所因為一戶成交據說7.5億那國會會砍核能預算中研院這邊也沒有去跟國研院來談論合作其實我們就會很擔心賴總統的這個新式核能是不是含假的我們相信不是那其實為什麼我們在這裡要講這件事其實是因為您即將卸任啦過去的政策研究都已經成定局那過去的研究方向是不是正確有沒有獨露什麼我想社會自有公平不過啊"},{"start":3867.17,"end":3881.207,"text":"面對即將接任您的位置的陳建仁院長你會期待他能夠堅持您支持核電重啟的立場嗎或者如果看到中研院連核能相關的基礎研究我們都沒有進行討論合作放棄"},{"start":3882.108,"end":3899.885,"text":"我想會不會覺得很可惜有沒有一些話想要留下來的我想每個院長對於政策都有自己的定見那我想這個未來的院長一定會參考所有研究人員的想法來做出最好的決定我想希望中研院不要愧對最高的稱呼"},{"start":3900.545,"end":3925.286,"text":"也感謝您願意一起站出來為核電發聲為核能證明但是我也相信其實中研院的這個領導地位其實很重要我們也一起來鼓勵下一屆的院長可以更理性的來看待我們人員的基礎研究還有相關的議題那另外爭取一點時間想跟院長來探討就我們剛剛講的微笑不要只是我們自己而是研究員也要微笑那本席辦公室做了非常多的努力"},{"start":3926.107,"end":3950.143,"text":"翻阅了全球指标系研究机构的薪资数据看到美国的NASA等级类似的联邦研究机构研究员的年薪大概是9万到16万美元折合新台币每个月24万到43万德国的Max Planck Society每个月大概18到30万台币新加坡的A-Star起薪也是17万起跳"},{"start":3951.003,"end":3972.549,"text":"這些例子有些人可能會說物價比較高不可同樣比較但我們也看了南韓的例子這個南韓國家級研究機構IBS我想院長應該很清楚研究員每個月的本薪在14萬到28萬新台幣之間院長您做了10年的院長您知道中研院目前給博士後研究員的起薪是多少嗎"},{"start":3973.089,"end":3992.183,"text":"我們在過去做了非常多的努力包括讓全國的大專院校的教授跟作業研究員的學術研究價值也增加15%同時我們也提出特優研究獎金我們也提高新聘學人研究獎金增加特聘研究員名額再再多往這邊走"},{"start":3992.783,"end":4013.159,"text":"謝謝院長我時間有限2006年到2026年20年之間我們的基本薪資漲了197%您剛剛講說15%有做我們都非常認同那我剛剛問得很清楚博士後研究員起薪到底是多少錢我們一個表我們要請人事來做問沒關係啦我們直接都幫你們整理好了啦起薪64000塊"},{"start":4016.221,"end":4040.382,"text":"我們剛剛講的數字應該還油煙在耳吧全部是十幾萬二十幾萬還有到三十幾萬到四十幾萬的那我們也查了正式研究員正研究員依照新點換算本薪大概每個月在七到十萬之間加上計劃補助加幾確實可能可以達到每個月十萬多啦但這比起鄰國的本薪還是有明顯的進步空間我剛剛講的數字有沒有問題"},{"start":4041.002,"end":4065.496,"text":"我完全同意 我們要大幅提高研究人員從博士生一直到研究員 特別研究員所有的研究 從事研究的人員我們都需要大幅提高的薪資 達到國際水準否則我們對人才的培育跟人才的延攬跟這個流論會有很大的問題我現在真的非常感動 原因是"},{"start":4067.017,"end":4092.968,"text":"這個證人玫瑰手留餘香這句話是韓院長在我們通過AI基本法的時候送給我的我想廖院長您這十年大家都評價非常對您評價非常好那我想我們可能是有一個未盡之功啦就是過去這段時間有沒有研究員跟您反映薪水太低啊然後這個你看我們這個半導體業界半導體業界的薪資啊"},{"start":4095.999,"end":4124.616,"text":"隨便碩士畢業年薪250萬300萬 400萬美國500萬 800萬 1000萬在在都有那如果有一個研究員很優秀畢業了想要進中研院結果年薪是100多萬您都是怎麼說服他們留下來在中研院的各位你問這個問題也是過去10年來我們每天都在思考的問題我們也都希望說立法院跟行政院全國各級"},{"start":4126.137,"end":4138.697,"text":"機關都能夠一起合作解決這個問題這個問題大家都非常認同大家有希望往前走所以我現在主要的首先是希望說有沒有一些錦囊妙計可以給我們陳建仁院長一個是說"},{"start":4141.381,"end":4157.57,"text":"制度還沒改變之前您是過去怎麼說服研究員100多萬然後可以拒絕這些2、3、4、5、6、7、8百萬您的秘訣是什麼以及制度的改變有沒有什麼緊囊您未經志工的留下來有"},{"start":4158.971,"end":4174.425,"text":"制度我們儘量先從我們可以做的部分先做什麼可以做呢因為大學的教授跟綜藝院有一個學術研究家級這部分的調整是比較簡單所以我們在2023年左右我們跟立法院提出的報告"},{"start":4175.266,"end":4200.419,"text":"就是建议把那个标准提高15%随后也马上获得行政院的认同但是已经过了三年了我们认为还需要与时俱进这是其中一部分然后葛委员刚才提到一个非常好的问题就是说我们怎么样在这低薪状况下能够说服新的研究员来台湾或者中文音乐工作呢那我们就必须要"},{"start":4200.999,"end":4229.524,"text":"优化我们的研究环境不只是钱我们的整个社会怎么样看待这些研究员有没有给研究员足够的尊重有没有给研究员足够的经费让他做长久实质深入的研究甚至鼓励他挑战高度困难的问题不能够一天每天看说你有没有成功因为研究过程是非常辛苦的有成功有失败的时候"},{"start":4229.844,"end":4258.482,"text":"那这些人在失败的时候我们要给予鼓励那这样子一个环境才能够吸引全世界最好的人才那钱当然很重要但是其他的配套措施我们都有那关于配套措施还有他家庭的照顾我们也设了幼儿园设了托婴中心还有我们优化所有的女性研究人员的所有的身兼的制度这些我们都持续在做"},{"start":4259.102,"end":4282.308,"text":"好謝謝院長您看得出來主席讓我用了這些時間我再把這些時間給您也真的是希望為了中研院能夠擴大我們的研究量能讓我們的研究人員真的能夠理解到中研院很用心那您剛剛也說了三年前做過一次下一次也許由新的院長我們一起來努力再來提升我們研究的環境研究人員的條件那我想呢"},{"start":4282.828,"end":4306.275,"text":"中華民國我們在台灣中央研究院是最高的研究機關我們希望我們每一個人一起努力讓每一個最優質的研究員都能夠在中研院站著把研究做了好不好謝謝謝謝葛如君委員的質詢也謝謝院長的回答請大家回座接下來我們有請蔡春籌委員進行詢答"},{"start":4323.412,"end":4334.496,"text":"主席好有請廖院長好 再次有請廖院長蔡委員早院長好"},{"start":4338.25,"end":4350.083,"text":"今天最主要是在審查中研院115年度的一個單位預算還有及科學研究基金的一個附屬單位的預算因為等一下還"},{"start":4351.664,"end":4356.446,"text":"還會處理預算提案所以本席計較的問題請院長直接回答院長台灣精準醫療計畫主論在2025年的10月15日刊登於Nature中研院也在10月22日發布新聞稿說明台灣精準醫療計畫還有前台有16個醫療體系"},{"start":4379.753,"end":4396.973,"text":"33家醫院合作招募了超過50萬名研究參與者建立大型的基因跟臨床資料庫這是台灣很重要的一個科研成果本席也給予肯定"},{"start":4399.055,"end":4415.148,"text":"因為台灣精準醫療計畫有這樣的一個研究價值資料規模跟國際能見度中研院是不是應該要把這些資料還有能夠治理的很清楚公開可做檢驗"},{"start":4417.51,"end":4430.321,"text":"這部分我們會配合衛福部的所有的法規來做因為人體資料庫、基因資料庫需要接受相關法規的規範這方面詳細提醒我們請專家來回答謝謝委員"},{"start":4435.964,"end":4459.47,"text":"問題我們在TPMI的phase 2馬上就要開始了然後我們也會把它轉成資料庫所以可以提供台灣跟全世界使用謝謝您因為這是屬於學術倫理那請問一下這樣的一個涉及到基因資料 原傳資料還有電子病例還有台灣精準醫療計畫這是不是研究資料"},{"start":4460.53,"end":4472.018,"text":"這事業研究資料也是將來可以變成臨床用的一個資料所以我們會遵循衛福部的所有相關法規來進行因為這個計畫監察院在113年12月19日有做一個調查報告然後在115年的3月19日監察院也有一個結案案情的資料提到中研院已爭會診"},{"start":4487.448,"end":4510.455,"text":"整個合作醫院使用這樣的資料的一個紙計畫清單那人員的名單跟IRB的一個核准函那我們也提到了中研院跟衛福部有做這樣的一個修法都是以重新獲取知情同意為原則所以呢 本席要問就是說"},{"start":4512.196,"end":4526.357,"text":"經過調查以後,中研院的改善,是否有針對一個制度化、公開化,或者是可以檢驗的,請能夠從這個制度面能夠直接做一個說明"},{"start":4527.557,"end":4548.415,"text":"因为过去这个方面的法规还没有制定好所以TPMI这个计划所产生的东西还没有纳入真正的人体生物资料库那现在法规完成之后我们就会这样进行那详细我们会请陈一庄所长来解释"},{"start":4550.341,"end":4566.486,"text":"對 謝謝委員 這也是我們目前努力的目標我們很快的就會把Reconsent還有Biobank這些都制定完整會由制度來做 謝謝您那這樣的一個計畫的一個資料治理呢對五十多名的一些參議者來講呢是不是能夠做到 就是說能夠看得到 看得懂然後能夠推得出 而且還能查得到 可以嗎"},{"start":4576.629,"end":4597.346,"text":"看得懂這比較困難,那其他應該是可以努力的方向是否看得到,那要看法規是不是允許這樣的事這些事情都要一切依照法規的規範來進行這50萬人的授權,我想我們應該要針對這樣的方向來做一個努力"},{"start":4604.271,"end":4627.386,"text":"這五十萬人的一個授權對於這樣的一個研究價值是它是提供很大的一個價值嘛所以我們必須要馬上能夠朝這個四個方向來做嘛所以是那要看這個法規是怎麼規定的我們一切照法規來進行那這個法規是誰要來努力的就了解是衛福部負責的一個法規"},{"start":4628.446,"end":4644.375,"text":"那這邊是不是中研院也應該要跟衛福部密切的來做一個是的我們會跟衛福部密切的聯繫看說這個法規怎麼樣制定怎麼樣執行等等的好那既然是這樣子我們也希望說"},{"start":4648.115,"end":4662.84,"text":"剛剛我們所質疑的這樣能夠做一個書面的一個詳細的一個說明送給本辦那最後呢我想就是說如果"},{"start":4665,"end":4679.106,"text":"這個研究不能夠只有成果跑在前面然後資料的治理卻落後在後面這個是我對中研這一個研究的一個啟喜最後第二個問題就是說有關於藍部的一個"},{"start":4684.988,"end":4695.332,"text":"南部縣區的一個發展量子科技及興建實驗大樓的一個規劃那因為前天我們貴縣的彭院長已經有來到本辦來做這樣的一個說明那我想要跟院長說明的就是說因為這一個建築"},{"start":4708.838,"end":4713.499,"text":"延宕了延宕了兩年嘛那也把經費呢從9.38億調整到17.33億增加了7.95億那麼在延宕了這個增加了8億然後呢啟程了延後了兩年所以呢這我們監督是我們的責任那在這裡呢一定要請院長是不是能夠來承諾117年的一個營運"},{"start":4737.583,"end":4757.649,"text":"是否能夠依然是以目前的目標還有人員的配置研究團隊的進駐跟設備的一個測試平台的開放還有使用的一個風險的管控是否能夠有具體的一個規劃跟管控我想請院長能夠做一個這樣一個承諾"},{"start":4760.26,"end":4779.562,"text":"這是我們的目標,我們會儘量往這方向走,我們請總務處長來做詳細質疑總務處長報告,目前的工程的進度都是符合的,沒有落後所以我們很有信心能夠把工程的進度都管控好,謝謝那經過這一次的一個這樣的經驗,我想中研院應該要做一個檢討"},{"start":4781.124,"end":4798.321,"text":"那未來呢 因為呢 未來的其他的一個工程採購的一個計畫 還有時程的一個提出的一個準確的一個規劃不要因為像這一次的有一些沒有掌握到的因素 所以呢 會造成工程上的一個延誕"},{"start":4799.643,"end":4810.291,"text":"所以我本身是很支持前瞻科研但是我們國會也要有監督所以中研院做一些非一般工程的進度還有經費的管控 估計 估驗計價還有設備的設置期程 風險的管控我們希望未來能夠做一個很精準的一個計畫跟作為"},{"start":4825.844,"end":4833.206,"text":"最後跟院長做這樣的一個交流本席對於中研院在預算上、原則上一定是支持但每筆預算都是人民的納稅錢本席也有責任來做監督預算是否合理應用是否達成科學跟技術的研究發展研究人才的培育還有創造頂尖研究成果的一個目標在這裡本席也很"},{"start":4853.891,"end":4876.976,"text":"對於院長對於國家的這樣的一個貢獻最後也要感謝院長在這十年對中研院對國家的一個學術的一個研究的一個貢獻那未來我們也期許我們院長在跟我們未來的院長做交接能夠把立法院監督了所有的能夠做一個完整的交接好 謝謝 謝謝委員"},{"start":4883.021,"end":4901.218,"text":"好 谢谢蔡春筹委员的质询 请院长回座接下来有请陈秀宝委员进行询答谢主席 请廖院长好 再次有请廖院长"},{"start":4904.601,"end":4917.496,"text":"陳薇院長 院長早安其實從早上是訓練員到我到現在其實大家都要跟你提一下說你下個月你就會離開這個職務我想您有沒有一點捨不得會覺得捨不得"},{"start":4924.244,"end":4942.04,"text":"这个一言难尽我想这个职位有它很重要的地方有很多值得珍惜的地方那也有很多值得继续精进看什么地方可以是改进的什么地方可以不用做的"},{"start":4943.041,"end":4955.097,"text":"那该做的我们要多做一点特别是对研究人员的支持跟研究人员的交流这方面我们要持续争这也是我最珍惜的一个部分就今天带这么多研究人员来"},{"start":4956.269,"end":4979.976,"text":"所以其實從院長您的回答我也可以感受得出來就是說在十年中您對整個中研院的付出您是有捨不得是依依不捨的我想同仁也是我們也是那我想再請教一下院長您在接受媒體專訪的時候有提到說針對台灣的高教體制你有一些看法那院長您未來即便是卸任了我想您對台灣的這個學術界還是有一些盼望吧"},{"start":4980.436,"end":5006.77,"text":"是的 這個陳如我在這個很多場合講說學術的問題是個非常複雜的問題最主要是一個風氣的問題那這風氣不是一兩個人也不是一兩個法規就可以改變但是不改這些法規又很難去改變這個風氣所以是有一點這個相輔相成的那最重要就是我們要全民要建立一個觀念就是我們要做真正的研究要對"},{"start":5009.265,"end":5035.783,"text":"科学或者社会上重要的问题来做研究做探讨这种做研究的价值而不是数paper所以可能有人会这个误会说中卫院是一切都一样的话不是我们事实上是重值不重量当然我们也希望说发表很多很好的paper但是不单单发表这个论文不足以达到我们的期许我们希望你发表"},{"start":5037.103,"end":5047.748,"text":"很好的论文而且越多越好所以我们假如是量跟质两者来看的话我们除了并重之外我们事实上还比较重视质的部分"},{"start":5049.038,"end":5075.948,"text":"謝謝院長那我再請教院長您覺得您認為台灣的學者我們還要多久可以有機會得到諾貝爾獎這個是一個大家需要這個有一個願景但是沒有辦法定一個KPI所有的諾貝爾獎都是深根基礎研究沒有辦法說目標就設定一個目標您覺得是樂觀的嗎"},{"start":5077.468,"end":5094.448,"text":"我覺得假如說我們朝這方向走全民有共識那我覺得我們是可以往這方向達到當然有共識也一定是支持的是的在亮月長您任職的期間中研院有很多的進步當然也有很多的挑戰但很慶幸就在這段期間其實中研院是很穩定的很堅定"},{"start":5097.912,"end":5104.595,"text":"那在您即將卸任您對中研院的期許有沒有什麼未盡之夜或是你覺得非常重要現在這樣進行希望說即將向陳正宇院長可以繼續延續的"},{"start":5118.962,"end":5147.62,"text":"我希望大家不要忘记研究的初衷我们是来做研究是希望说能够解决重要的问题至少是自己认为重要的问题然后我们过来就是要说服其他同侪甚至整个社会我们认为重要的问题确实是重要那假如不是的话我们要跟学界跟社会有一个良性的对话怎么样来把重要的问题变成我们研究的方向"},{"start":5148.3,"end":5164.682,"text":"这是众议院的一个使命谢谢院长本期还是要对于院长您再给予高度的肯定以及祝福你看我用一半以上的时间要来跟您谈就是说您今天谢人的这个心情也期待说未来可以持续听到廖院长更多的好消息"},{"start":5165.723,"end":5182.245,"text":"那接下來我想關心一下我們中研院的研究案影響民眾安全這個議題這個剛才陳培語委員也有質詢了這個是因為我們中研院有一個地殼研究所是要有博士針對地震引發這個地殼變動的這個所以在那個路尖、水溝旁甚至私人的水泥地有打這個卯釘"},{"start":5183.266,"end":5210.036,"text":"那卯丁的處理沒有很適切他其實有突出路面所以在地方的民眾就覺得這是非常的危險不管是走路踢單會跌倒還是車子的輪胎可能壓過去有可能造成暴胎這樣的狀況而且在你們執行的這個流程裡面你們在取得相關的申請就是標示 同意這個好像都沒有做到位我想了解一下說針對像這樣子的案子日後你們"},{"start":5210.876,"end":5221.547,"text":"要怎麼去做一個這樣子相關的調整這方面我們會持續往這個宣導的精進詳細我們請地球所所長"},{"start":5223.049,"end":5243.448,"text":"好 委員好那基本上在地震造成的一些地殼的變形調查事實上需要重複地去進行所以有時候必須做一些鉚釘那上次這個事件感到非常的遺憾那我們已經把那個鉚釘移除了其他大概有12個我們覺得需要長期監測的我們現在就是把水泥鋪好對 然後也行文給政府對 對 對"},{"start":5245.089,"end":5262.271,"text":"那基本上某天在放的時候都是要放在偏僻就是車子基本上是不會到達的地方那那個事件可能相對的可能因為位子不太好找所以找到一個位子讓民眾有一些干擾所以這部分我們未來都會注意那未來的新聞都會注意"},{"start":5262.831,"end":5290.907,"text":"這個部分就會希望說這是一個提醒未來我們進行任何的研究都應該要先考量到公眾的安全而且我們要得到合法申請使用權包括像入權同意這個都要取得這是一個提醒那接下來我想再跟主席借一點時間我問一下院長現在有個比較時事性的問題最近一個很火的新聞就有一個藝人表示說中研院應該要吸收他的孩子他對自己的孩子十分的欣賞這個部分引起很多的爭議"},{"start":5292.008,"end":5319.467,"text":"那 院長您覺得呢 您的想法呢假如我沒記錯 這個新聞是出現在娛樂版但是要提到你們所以我要知道說您的想法那我為什麼在這邊提其實我也要告訴就是讓中研院也有這樣的機會來說明其實我們中研院的人才都是非常優秀非常頂尖的那我們要進入中研院來研究要來工作我們也知道是有非常嚴謹的要求與條件還有規定"},{"start":5320.908,"end":5339.156,"text":"我们所有的真才都在网站上有公开揭露而且把真才的条件写得非常清楚除此之外或许大家有时候会误会中研院、中科院、工研院什么不一样"},{"start":5340.217,"end":5357.093,"text":"那这个这则新闻谈的是比较偏军火方面的那我们是不做那方面的研究所以那可能是中科院的范围好那其实这个也有可能是一个这个"},{"start":5358.294,"end":5384.893,"text":"我提到這個部分本席提到這個部分也希望說藉由中研院你們來說明讓社會大眾了解其實中研院對人才的吸納跟禁用是有自己的規範相關的規定那提到這個部分呢我也是要再提醒其實中研院你們在進行預算說明的時候在說明的時候都有提到說院內有很多優秀的同仁陸續都在退休那我想不只是中研院本席也很擔心會有人才斷層的問題"},{"start":5386.614,"end":5403.283,"text":"我之前質詢教育處的時候我有提到說中國他現在目前他調整他大學的學科學系增加了38個就是跟AI機器人相關的這些科系那我想要請中研院這邊留意的是說中國他做對他們的大學做這樣的調整之後"},{"start":5403.903,"end":5420.805,"text":"就是會搶學生搶學生會搶教授搶老師然後會搶研究人才這個是我們相關的部門都應該要留意的那像針對這樣子的訊息出來之後我們中研院對於自己的人才培育跟留任我們有沒有一個因應呢"},{"start":5421.306,"end":5445.791,"text":"是的 谢谢委员的提问这方面我们就要从提高薪资待遇改善研究环境加强职场友善的措施这些一切都是吸引人才留住人才的方法最重要的也是要有充足稳定的经费所以这方面也要反省大院大力支持"},{"start":5446.568,"end":5474.702,"text":"當然是一定會支持所以其實院長有你能回答我也知道說中研院應該就是有相關的這樣的看法跟態度那針對就是人才的留任不管是在大嶼上不管是在種種我們也希望說我們提供更優渥更有誘因的那這個部分也希望說我們相關的部會相關的單位都能夠持續的留意那我再繼續講一下好了"},{"start":5475.843,"end":5489.765,"text":"Google目前有研發可以透過Gemini這個辨識圖片是不是AI生成這個辨識功能那在這個生成的圖片上面會有這個特殊的這個電子的浮水印以便之後可以驗證那Google也將"},{"start":5490.706,"end":5516.919,"text":"擴大資源音訊以及影片的辨識將這個功能整合進Google的這個搜尋以及其他平台加上YouTube也宣布又擴大AI肖像權的偵測將開放18歲以上初作者呢透過申請並提供身份證件及自拍短片認證上傳之後系統就可以來比對平台上未經授權使用其臉部肖像之影片並且可以要求對方下架這表示"},{"start":5518.38,"end":5539.457,"text":"辨識影像這個AI科技並不是不可行那因為之前本席有質詢過中研院是不是可以研發相關辨識AI圖片的AI工具在當時那個時候其實中研院是回覆是說沒有辦法研究但目前如果有這樣的技術已經開始進步了那我們是不是可以評估要投入相關的研究這方面我們請我們的資訊專家來說明"},{"start":5542.575,"end":5556.674,"text":"報告委員就是我們這幾年其實都有持續的觀察目前的技術然後持續的發展近年來的一個趨勢其實是用AI來做這方面的偵測然後我們其實也已經有開發一些對應的一些技術然後去年也已經有在做一些學術的發表"},{"start":5557.455,"end":5578.62,"text":"应该是在世界的应该是在前头的一个level这样子然后接下来我们也同时在做的就是对民众的推广包括说相关知识的推广有一些包括一些演讲或是一些open house活动的推广所以之外我们也在跟国内的一些厂商跟法人在谈可能让我们的技术落地让民众可以有机会使用这样的工具来做这样的侦测这样子"},{"start":5578.86,"end":5594.205,"text":"就是說以AI來偵測AI那其實有您的回答也表示說我們中研院這邊對於整個這個部分的投入其實都還是有在持續的那我為什麼這樣子提醒其實因為AI的科技的應用越來越廣泛"},{"start":5594.565,"end":5617.636,"text":"那AI生成的相關的內容誤導或甚至欺騙民眾的這樣的事件的屢屢發生那我想這個對社會對民眾都會造成一定的恐慌那如果我們有這樣的工具來協助民眾辨識我們有可以掌握就是比較不會有假訊息的混淆也比較不會有社會的紛擾那主席已經站起來了謝謝那在這邊再次祝福我們的院長謝謝"},{"start":5619.978,"end":5642.957,"text":"好謝謝陳秀寶委員的詢詢謝謝院長請回座因為我們預計想要早一點處理預算所以以下發言的委員希望能夠控制時間謝謝那接下來有請鄭正前委員鄭正前委員鄭正前委員不在有請吳佩奕委員進行詢答"},{"start":5652.634,"end":5659.712,"text":"謝謝主席 我請總演員廖君智院長好 有請廖院長委員長院長好"},{"start":5662.72,"end":5686.768,"text":"今天大家都很重視今天的質詢也很重視每次在這裡跟你討論的機會那麼中研院我們有三大法定的任務之外我們也是以研究要來帶動社會的進步為己任所以我們自己也列了三大目標其中第一個是當然我們要產生全球頂尖的研究第二點我們希望要能夠有"},{"start":5687.768,"end":5705.631,"text":"社會這個關鍵的責任第三點是我們要能夠延攬跟培育人才所以院長在您任內其實也做了很多的措施主要就是希望能夠來延攬以及培育我們重要的學術人才我們做了哪些努力呢"},{"start":5706.912,"end":5735.537,"text":"在人才延攬方面我們最近有一個所謂人事三件首先我們推出一個5加5的計畫針對一些國際級的人士他可能是不會長期待在台灣但是他想來台灣做一陣子的研究這部分我們會用世界級跟全世界可以競爭的薪資待遇來做延攬"},{"start":5736.477,"end":5759.278,"text":"此外我们也推出一个所谓的二次长聘就是在年纪到达60到63岁之间的研究员可以提出一个一次达70岁长聘的申请希望我们能够达到再创学术高峰这个愿景"},{"start":5760.298,"end":5789.441,"text":"这个我们希望能够激发一些比较资深的研究员利用最后的机会来再创学术高峰第三件是我们为了积极延览人才所以我们也取消先这个名额先核给名额再延览的一个机制我们希望各所中心能够直接去延览人才然后直接把这个延并到人才送到"},{"start":5790.941,"end":5812.626,"text":"各学组的评审会去做研议这样可以加快延展的速度此外在其他延展方面我们也努力完善我们院内的设施除了增加新聘学术研究奖金托婴中心幼儿园等等完善我们的宿舍的设施这些一再一再都是我们希望"},{"start":5813.146,"end":5840.428,"text":"能夠改善中醫院的研究環境來吸引最優秀的人才讓人才能夠在中醫院在台灣能夠安心的做研究是 這個吸引優秀的人才像這個剛剛講的我們是用編制外的方式來這個處理但是我想國內的研究人才也非常重要尤其需要我們長期的培養跟支持但是因為過去呢我們是要比照公務員的薪資所以在這個國際的競爭力上面當然比較沒有"},{"start":5840.908,"end":5869.788,"text":"有时候我们自己有好的人才却流失了那过去我们院内做了哪些努力那当然假如说我们院内同仁有这个被国外挖角的状况我们会全力了解但有些状况是被挖角到全世界最顶尖的机构去那这个我们就比较难竞争我们也希望说一方面祝福这些研究人员一方面我们也希望能够跟这些研究人员到了新的机构去"},{"start":5870.128,"end":5897.688,"text":"持續跟他保持合作聯繫的關係這樣也可以藉由我們送出去的人保持跟中央醫院的持續的合作過去呢也是在院長任內那當時行政院院長正好是陳建仁院長我們有提出了專業的加給增加了15%這個我非常支持那我想因為整個我們社會經濟狀況今年到目前為止經濟成長已經超過這個非常大的數字了所以我想未來我們也是要持續的來調整跟調整"},{"start":5898.949,"end":5927.348,"text":"这个要拜托中研院继续来努力那我看到院长认为也推动了一个中研学者的这个计划就是我们中研院跟大学来合并那针对副教授以上55岁以下那我们给他这个五年期的研究补助经费但是我看了一下第一年申请案件有42件结果到今年突然砍半了剩下这个21件的来申请件数我看了一下我们的名额其实没有少是来申请的这样"},{"start":5927.608,"end":5947.697,"text":"变少了我们有没有去了解是什么原因我们设立这个中研学者的初衷是两个第一个希望说中研争取到的一个经费能够有一部分能够跟大学共享第二个部分我们希望利用我们这些经费来支持一些终身带有潜力的学者"},{"start":5948.437,"end":5974.705,"text":"终身代是我们定义为55岁以下那我们一次给予五年的研究经费相当充足的研究经费那可以再延展一次但是我们这个标准也相当高一方面标准高一方面我们也不希望说国家重复投资资源所以也排除了一些在国科会已经拿到类似奖项类似经费的学者"},{"start":5975.505,"end":5995.911,"text":"所以一方面我们把很多非常顶尖的研究人员已经排除因为他已经获得国科会教育部相关的奖项另外一方面因为我们的评审标准是非常高所以第一次可能大家不知道说我们的标准在哪里第二次大家稍微知道之后大概会有一些自我调试的状况"},{"start":5998.382,"end":6024.521,"text":"這個標準當然是要嚴格審查要嚴謹那國家預算也不應該重複使用不過因為我們在114年當時審這筆預算的時候其實院裡是有提出說希望未來可以逐漸來增加人數然後也有提到說也許未來會考慮放寬這個申請的資格所以我想說就是可能你們整體來去了解一下到底具體因為從42到剩下只有一半這個減少量其實蠻大的"},{"start":6025.782,"end":6051.177,"text":"他是不是一半腰斬所以能不能再具體去了解一下實務上面假設說真的有這種這個這個叫做一株之憾的話這個未來我們計畫也許可以再來加強那最後一點是因為我非常關注是也是院長最後任任提出的職場友善辦公室我看到我們有同仁在網路上面分享他們是相當的肯定這一個新的措施我們現在是在事辦期間嗎是對"},{"start":6052.938,"end":6067.986,"text":"那麼未來有沒有這個制度有沒有考慮要讓他這個長期穩定的來運作你有看了一下我們今年預算沒有另編項目我們是先用業務費來支應有沒有編入到明年的預算這部分我們要看他的需求情形那據我了解"},{"start":6068.727,"end":6088.866,"text":"這個運作相當這個成功那裡面的負責的同仁也跟我們回報說這個一切運作相當好但是由於這是完全保密我們也不知道說這個裡面的狀況的實際的案例是什麼那我們也跟同仁的提供一個另外一個管道在"},{"start":6090.788,"end":6105.244,"text":"能夠在真正發生之前就能夠解決問題的一個機會這是我們設立這個職場友善辦公室的最大的目的那我們運作一陣子以後我們希望這個能夠制度化"},{"start":6105.745,"end":6125.221,"text":"用這個獨立安心的環境來處理資產問題我想非常的重要那因為今年你們用業務費先支應我看了一下行政人力也是堅韌的我們希望未來盤點一下真沒有這個需求的話我們給他這個穩定的環境制度來支持那因為時間的關係這個質詢先到這裡謝謝謝謝主席謝謝吳佩儀委員的質詢請院長回座接下來有請吳思瑤委員進行詢答"},{"start":6148.151,"end":6151.32,"text":"好 謝謝主席 有請院長好 有請院長上備訓台吳偉遠 早"},{"start":6155.593,"end":6183.156,"text":"很开心回到教文会但是没想到是最后一次六分钟跟您公开的对话那首先人会走制度会留下来谢谢您十年前您说家里有事回家帮忙到现在十年走过您留下了非常珍贵的legacy给中研院也给台湾跟您感谢夏业我非常细心的看了您的十年的成绩单的这厚厚一本"},{"start":6183.937,"end":6211.391,"text":"归纳出从制度改革人事创新到人才的育才揽才留才到我们所有的顶尖所中心研究成果都非常丰沛还有任务型导向的计划在AI在静林科技在量子电脑都有成果以及对于中原院自己的软硬体友善的科研环境还有我们院区的空间治理真的要给您很大的肯定"},{"start":6212.091,"end":6226.192,"text":"家裡有事回家幫忙您真的幫了家裡很多的忙下一頁我當然更要說在疫情的期間我印象很深刻中研院也化研為用我們整合了全台灣的15個跨"},{"start":6230.014,"end":6249.805,"text":"不會中研院真的在疫情期間您在這一本沒有提到我是覺得有點可惜我還是要感謝中研院所有的夥伴那我現在短短的時間要聚焦吳思堯個人這十年來我努力跟中研院的夥伴合作了什麼同樣要表達我對大家的感謝"},{"start":6250.825,"end":6268.604,"text":"第一个重理工也重人文大家都会说但是您真的做到了我谢谢至少呢很多东西的角度还要持续但是您创设的人文精英博士奖学金2024年上路我非常的感谢我们持续做永续做下一页"},{"start":6269.825,"end":6289.546,"text":"我也感謝您均衡台灣我們要地方創生來解決高齡化少子化尤其是城鄉的差距鄉村的空洞所以我107年就開始倡議也在您手中中研院提出了農業政策的建議書2023年完成再次感謝"},{"start":6290.427,"end":6307.581,"text":"时间有限我最后再跟您同整再下一个我也感谢在俄乌战争爆发之后我认为中研院要扮演国际学术的责任所以我谢谢您在我的倡议之下我们启动了乌克兰学人奖学金计划"},{"start":6308.121,"end":6331.492,"text":"我們接住這些優秀的研究學者也因為有中研院的第一個動作我後續去倡議去串聯文化部文化部也很快的把烏克蘭的藝術家接到台灣我到現在都還會收到這些藝術家寫來給我的信這是台灣的溫暖這是台灣的國際的責任謝謝中研院再下一個謝謝"},{"start":6332.392,"end":6357.842,"text":"我也感謝憲政機關的帆離我們大家每個機關都要做SDGs的永續報告中研院過去只做學術很多的研究但是我們自己並沒有如同其他的憲政機關來提出SDGs的永續報告也就是除了學術研究之外SDGs要內化成為中研院的機關治理我們的內部文化我們提出了"},{"start":6359.202,"end":6381.254,"text":"2023年中研院自己也提出了我谢谢中研院我更谢谢在思瑶的倡议我也真的非常谢谢我们的这个总务长这个在这里刚为辛苦了在中研院就是国家宝藏中研院就是国家活的博物馆群所以呢"},{"start":6382.174,"end":6405.391,"text":"保存文字跟空间治理我们组成了外部专家导入的环境规划委员会去启动了中研院的再生计划这是中研院下一个十年二十年非常重要的事我们也用软体带动硬体策展跟出版一起来做来传承中研院珍贵的文史"},{"start":6406.212,"end":6420.5,"text":"的故事我要说这有硬体更有软体所以我们的这个展览现在还延长在进行所以谢谢您来参与展览李远哲前院长我也邀请了未来的院长陈建仁前副总统去看"},{"start":6421.42,"end":6440.488,"text":"然后这本书所有的台湾学术研究不管文化资产不管是中研院所有朋友都应当有这本书这本书要多印一些这是中研院的故事也是台湾的故事我再一次肯定谢谢那最后一件事情就是我认为"},{"start":6441.508,"end":6461.903,"text":"需要您再給後面的夥伴我們要再做的也就是台灣已經成為世界的關鍵字的同時台灣的研究就應當要展現它的能量跟企圖心從2012年開始我們的三年一次的台灣研究世界大會已經五屆了"},{"start":6462.603,"end":6476.87,"text":"发表的论文425篇各类的活动155场与会的人员1500位以上专家学者更高达750位世界各国台湾研究正是世界的显学下一页"},{"start":6478.23,"end":6503.586,"text":"加州大学的台湾研究中心也是我们欧美所的朋友们研究员们一起协助成立第六届的台湾研究的世界大会应当就是跟加州大学Santiago分校一起来合作活动要办 论坛要持续 出版要产出 量能要出来更重要的是我希望落为我们的组织最后一个"},{"start":6504.722,"end":6527.885,"text":"世界各國歐洲亞洲美洲都在成立台灣研究的專責機構在台灣的大學部門台大師大政大也有我對中研院最後一個我們還沒有完成的希望獲得您最後的一個yes下一個就是在中研院我們應當用我們的組織法成立中研院的台灣研究中心"},{"start":6529.011,"end":6549.656,"text":"那我也提出了预算案等一下会提出我希望在这最后除了表达我的感谢每一件事情我们都一步一步做中研院的推动也许不是媒体上声量大的议题可是我们做的就是国家的legacy最后给您一点点时间综合回应再次表达我的感谢好谢谢"},{"start":6551.996,"end":6576.949,"text":"謝謝委員多年來的質詢由於您的關照我們也確實做了很多我們過去沒有做的事情譬如說建築展譬如說院區規劃譬如永續發展這在在都是委員提醒我們往下做下去我們非常感謝委員這十年來的幫忙"},{"start":6577.529,"end":6595.995,"text":"那最后一个台湾研究中心希望能够看得到在组织的落实跟深化谢谢大家辛苦了谢谢院长谢谢吴思瑶委员的质询请院长会座接下来有请林倩琪委员林倩琪委员林倩琪委员不在好现在有请吴丽华交委质询"},{"start":6609.675,"end":6634.1,"text":"謝謝主席 有請廖院長好 獄長請趙薇好院長 謝謝您謝謝今天真的雷霆熠熠但是我很幸運因為我上個禮拜看到中研院前往阿里山參加鄒族文物回家展那您特別上去看我知道這是您2016年上任之後從2017年開始"},{"start":6638.061,"end":6655.986,"text":"有把中央研究院民主所博物館的館藏跟地方去做一個共作的文物返鄉展這個意義重大也帶動我們國內各個博物館開始做這件事情那我更感動的是六次"},{"start":6656.866,"end":6671.846,"text":"你就參與了兩次特別這一次是您任期屆滿前夕你還特別上山去參加這個工作展我內心非常的感動那我特別記得您說"},{"start":6674.38,"end":6699.722,"text":"中央研究院有個願景就是知識共享經費共享所以呢在這一次我們看到的這個鄒族的文物返還呢我知道您有很多的想法甚至我覺得您在山上看到很多東西你都會覺得應該要把科技去輔助各個領域的發展不僅僅是文物"},{"start":6700.602,"end":6727.95,"text":"還包括農業等等那在這裡呢我其實因為今天是預算預算提案所以我也特別的關心就是當中你有提到如果未來有機會像這次的鄒族文物可能在日本的東京博物館有看到在瑞典博物館也有看到一些鄒族的文物如果散落在全世界各地博物館的台灣原住民族的各個文物如果有機會的話你說"},{"start":6730.251,"end":6744.155,"text":"有想法最重要經費不是問題我對這句話印象特別深刻所以我是希望說未來是不是您可以就是還是讓我們的中央研究院繼續的把它深化加廣"},{"start":6746.276,"end":6762.906,"text":"如果未来能够把各个地方的文物带回来一起工作让地方的人在地参与在地诠释我觉得这个真的是意义很重大所以在这里我们其实还有一个原民会的文化发展中心"},{"start":6763.726,"end":6784.165,"text":"他們其實在全國各鄉也有30個文物館所以未來我們是希望說是不是能夠跟原住民族的文化發展中心然後結合各國散落的原住民族的這些文物跟你們中央民族所博物館的館藏就是一起來辦這種工作展可以嗎"},{"start":6784.665,"end":6809.07,"text":"是的這個委員講得非常好我們除了要把全世界各地我們原住民相關的文物也能夠帶來台灣展出除此之外我們也希望能夠把它電子化數位化用這些文資語料來訓練最新的大型語言模型把這些知識讓大型語言模型能夠接受進去"},{"start":6810.47,"end":6821.214,"text":"那這個我認為是一個非常值得非常應該做的一個方向非常謝謝院長因為我也有親口聽到就是您特別提到因為國科會正在推動這個TIDE台灣人工智慧對話的引擎"},{"start":6825.416,"end":6854.767,"text":"那由中央研究院來執行可是你有講一句話你說你有提及原住民文化是台灣最特殊且具競爭力的AI訓練資料我聽到這句話我特別的感動所以在這個部分其實我也是想說你們有提到其實你們要克服的是著作權的一個困難那我之前也有很關心一件事情就是我們有一個"},{"start":6855.447,"end":6875.542,"text":"精准医疗计划这个做得非常好所以我就很羡慕那当时呢我其实质询有问过我也很希望我们援助民族的部分也有所谓的精准医疗计划为什么我这样讲因为我们的平均余命其实跟国人"},{"start":6876.303,"end":6899.852,"text":"多年來幾十年來曾經高達差距10歲那即便是到現在其實差距還是有7.54歲這是最新的資料所以要縮短這個距離我覺得非常的辛苦所以我看到這個精準醫療計畫的時候我覺得很開心但是你們也有提到也是因為取得同意很困難"},{"start":6901.132,"end":6926.579,"text":"所以我们现在其实在三年前112年的6月21号我们有通过原住民族健康法上面有写到这个就是为了促进原住民族的健康改善原住民族健康不平等的情形里面也有提到中央主管机关要建置原住民族健康资料库而且呢请求相关机关提供的时候各机关不得拒绝"},{"start":6927.259,"end":6953.774,"text":"所以我是在想說未來有沒有可能跟衛福部跟園民會或者是相關的部會能不能成立一個跨部會的平台也能夠有一日促成原住民族來參與這個精準醫療計畫這是非常好的構想那我們也希望這個園民會跟委員能夠大力支持大力推動這個構想那這個跨部會平台由誰來召開"},{"start":6954.955,"end":6972.728,"text":"那要看政府的機構看看這個行政院是怎麼樣構想那我想初始也許我的辦公室我先來召開第一次相關的部會那未來呢希望在會議結論上未來能夠留下這樣的一個平台的記錄好嗎"},{"start":6973.809,"end":6986.061,"text":"好 那另外一個部分我也是非常的關心就是你們有一個很棒的台灣研究世界大會為什麼我關心這個因為中國它有一個最大的台灣研究組織在廈門大學台灣研究院"},{"start":6989.364,"end":7006.083,"text":"在2020年的6月他成立了一個AI模擬實驗室運用人工智慧模擬分析國家統一後的情勢成立一個涉台外交研究中心邀請各國來進行學術交流共同研究中國要如何統一台灣"},{"start":7007.384,"end":7022.371,"text":"所以呢我想我們也有一個台灣研究世界大會2025年的時候在台北舉辦有750位的學者共襄盛舉有31個主題450篇的文章發表那我知道的是說2028年會在聖地牙哥來舉辦"},{"start":7026.833,"end":7053.559,"text":"所以我很關心的就是原住民主題的文章的數量那我也希望我們不要錯過2028年聖地牙歌這一場我是希望說是不是能夠有一個相關的規劃能夠在兩週內提供我們辦公室這樣子我們才能夠讓有興趣參與的各個學者專家一同來共襄盛舉可以嗎好 這個非常好的構想"},{"start":7055.919,"end":7079.488,"text":"我們會往這方向努力做因為時間的關係我還是要謝謝院長就是我上次看到您看到阿里山的山葵您就立刻的打電話給農業生物技術研究中心立刻的交代要把那兩盆不同種類的山葵送達南院"},{"start":7080.688,"end":7106.036,"text":"然後呢要求去做一個基因的研究看怎麼樣幫助他能夠在低海拔種植能夠抗熱我要跟院長說我非常感動所以我希望未來中央研究院就是繼續比照這個知識共享經濟共享的精神然後來一統的來幫助我們的每一項研究可以嗎"},{"start":7106.556,"end":7128.799,"text":"好 谢谢 这是我们的责任好 那也祝福院长那未来能够回甘这个中研院的十年那也谢谢我们所带领的所有团队成员好 谢谢院长 谢谢主席好 谢谢好 谢谢赵伟 谢谢院长今天是廖院长感谢大会真的由衷的感谢好 谢谢"},{"start":7133.991,"end":7155.578,"text":"接下来我们有请罗志强委员进行询答有请廖院长有请廖院长"},{"start":7159.368,"end":7170.848,"text":"羅委員好院長好我首先想請教您一下您這本施政計畫報告上面印的中央研究院五個字是誰的字體什麼時候開始使用的"},{"start":7173.476,"end":7197.758,"text":"假如我沒記錯應該很早以前就使用那可能是這個我們的蔡元培院長的這個墨寶是這是1928年民國17年中央研究院成立的時候首任院長蔡元培的原始手稿體已經有近百年的歷史"},{"start":7198.539,"end":7213.639,"text":"那過去中研院也一直用我們蔡元培院長的字作為標準字那就算是1997年李遠哲院長任內設計出新的院徽院徽上也使用了蔡元培院長的字"},{"start":7214.56,"end":7237.291,"text":"那我想請教一下我們現在看到我們的中研院在2022年新增一組電腦制的標準字體拿作為新字體的院徽我想請教一下請問院長你知道這個你們2022年的這個標準字你們花了多少錢嗎我請業務單位來回答這個詳細的問題"},{"start":7239.366,"end":7253.815,"text":"秘書處處長 委員好這個標案花了一百零四萬來 院長 請你過來一下這兩個差別在哪裡有點遠來 我拿過去給您看時間暫停"},{"start":7273.804,"end":7288.029,"text":"來,院長院長眼力很好就只有字體不一樣原來的右邊的是蔡元培首任院長的墨寶後面改成"},{"start":7290.226,"end":7314.191,"text":"電腦製 中央研究院然後當然底下英文字體也不一樣啦那院長 剛剛請問花了多少錢 收了多少錢對 110萬 跟委員報告一下因為這主要是因為現在年輕世代他們所使用的網路平台對於視覺效果的這個期待你是處長是不是對 秘書處處長你不要當大家是笨蛋啦是真的不要當大家是笨蛋啦"},{"start":7315.171,"end":7342.347,"text":"基本上中央研究院蔡元培院長的墨寶用了一百年到現在也沒有脫節啦電腦字也不會有任何的問題要在電腦上去秀出來沒有任何連你今天施政報告也沒改啦你的名片也沒改啦 對不對沒有 因為我們基本上就是有兩個不一樣的這個因為一個當然就是如你所說這是一個比較維護我們人文傳統好啦 謝謝你啦然後另外一個"},{"start":7343.067,"end":7368.484,"text":"就是這兩個事實上我們都放在...沒關係,讓社會公判啦,我們請院長上來啦他也講不出所以然來嘛院長,抱歉齁今天,我們可以看到我們的親愛的,我們的政府啊國家錢一百零四萬是小數字嗎?請問院長大小是相對的,不過每分錢都是很重要的我告訴院長啦"},{"start":7370.814,"end":7397.476,"text":"台電、中郵前面才發生聶永珍96萬去改個字被社會輿論踏法我不希望中研院今天遇到類似的狀況當然你的得標不是聶永珍啦你得標是什麼 優勢另外一家廠商我還是拿這一張圖給所有人公判一下大家去看啊"},{"start":7398.855,"end":7425.296,"text":"國家錢啊 104萬啊非常有歷史意義的蔡元培院長的字蔡元培院長的字那改到旁邊的字 104萬那現在抱歉啊 你們這新的標準字弄了以後你們還是回頭用蔡元培院長的字啊那這些錢到底花了10億在哪裡我要回頭跟院長說一件事啊"},{"start":7426.474,"end":7455.356,"text":"為什麼這個事情我覺得要拿出來嚴肅的討論今天台電96.8萬把所謂的余祐任的字改成聶永禎的電腦字一百萬就沒了可是以台電來說當時余祐任你知道他寫這個字的報酬是多少嗎你知道嗎 院長你知道嗎"},{"start":7457.432,"end":7481.885,"text":"這個當然不可能知道你當然不可能知道 因為你不會知道 我不會怪你啦因為不是你的夜館啦他的報酬兩顆大西瓜啦台電送他兩顆大西瓜啦他當場切下來跟大家分享啦這就是余祐任啊 某大書法家他跟台電寫的 台電的字的報酬啊 兩顆大西瓜"},{"start":7483.635,"end":7505.78,"text":"然後呢 蔡元培是首任中研院院長你今天台電余佑仁他是請余佑仁來寫字蔡元培是首任的中研院院長那當然我還是要肯定你啦兩套並行嘛 對不對先是兩套並行可不可以容我們解釋一下"},{"start":7507.898,"end":7532.723,"text":"因為這兩套並行的原因就業務單位跟我解釋是因為很多狀況之下這個書法字體印小會變得很模糊就沒有辦法呈現所以在很多不同的這個這個應用他必須要用我很尊敬你啦我很尊敬我真的很尊敬你啦可是這事你不需要被業務單位去那邊拗啦"},{"start":7533.803,"end":7557.078,"text":"我今天還是拿那個給你看這個我告訴你你今天真的說什麼出法字體你有些應用上不便你也不要告訴我這一百零四萬就改個字體這一百零四萬據我了解不是改字體而已是整個視覺視覺形象的設計院長我要拜託你啦"},{"start":7557.538,"end":7585.777,"text":"這委員我也要拜託你浪費時間來來來沒關係院長你要這樣講讓大家公判嘛整個形象的設計非常好啊你剛剛自己都看到只有字體變了啊沒有這個是整個形象識別體系所以我們現在到譬如說眾院到所有的這個鄉鎮的這個演講我們去推廣我們的科普活動好沒關係你要這樣凹我讓你凹下來下來過來再來沒有再來啊再來啊再來啊"},{"start":7586.721,"end":7603.777,"text":"不是,我請院長上來我請院長上來,來沒關係讓大家公判啦,一百零四萬我還是要回頭說一件事情啦不管從台電到今天中原院,我不客氣的講啦事實上"},{"start":7604.915,"end":7622.703,"text":"必要性在哪裡很簡單嘛現在電腦印刷數位化今天印刷書法體早就不是問題了在電腦上呈現一點問題都沒有我也不會相信有人會看不懂蔡元培的字唯一的原因只有一個跟今天台電"},{"start":7624.059,"end":7645.8,"text":"用聶永禎的電腦字去改與幼樂園字一樣啊他就是想辦法切斷歷史嘛完全不是這個就完全不是事實謝謝你啦你沒有完全切斷是我肯定你的地方因為你上面還是在啊這個委員當初業務單位做的主要是整個視覺形象讓社會公判啦讓社會公判來下來我再請教你下一個問題"},{"start":7646.741,"end":7675.867,"text":"大學全世界的機構都不斷在精進在改良是啦 百年歷史切掉就要精進改良我謝謝你啦不是 我們不是把百年歷史切掉我們沒有這個意思我請到下一題讓社會公判好 謝謝讓社會公判一百零四萬值不值得讓社會公判也不是你說的算也不是我說的算是的今天是院長上任第十年啊對不對你一個月後六月二十號要卸任嘛對不對 任滿嘛是的院長我這十年我是肯定你啊"},{"start":7677.123,"end":7693.313,"text":"這真心話我肯定你至少你在學術上我覺得基本上是維持中立的那我想請教我們剛剛提到的蔡元培首任院長還有過去歷任的中研院長都有一個相近的特點你知道是什麼嗎"},{"start":7694.943,"end":7710.485,"text":"我想都是实事求是不畏权势勇于发言对事实做勇敢的陈述这是我们共同的信念对非常好"},{"start":7711.755,"end":7740.723,"text":"是中研院的傳統我用四個字來講不畏當道是的對 非常好是的首任蔡元培院長為了確保學術獨立他刻意選擇在哪裡召開中研院的第一次院務會議你知道嗎他在上海召開他不在當時國民政府所在地的南京召開當時他的意思很簡單我要遠離政治"},{"start":7741.892,"end":7767.373,"text":"表達學術機構自主運作的決心蔣中正總統想把中研院轉立考試院轄下第二任院長朱家華強力反對不惜以辭職以示抗議而蔣總統在出席中研院院士會議時批判了五四新文化運動你知道第三任的院長胡適對他說什麼嗎"},{"start":7769.833,"end":7785.07,"text":"蔣總統你錯了答對了委員你也不對謝謝我們今天講的你來這裡不需要反駁我啦你也是當導你也是對我們來講你是立法院是中研院最大的一個權威院長我到底不對在哪裡我請你來救教一下我不對在哪裡"},{"start":7786.109,"end":7795.361,"text":"您剛才說我們為了要切斷歷史所以改變院會這件事情是不對的我們沒有做這件事情我們沒有做這件事情我們是要把我們的視覺系統做一個優化我說過讓社會公判了我現在講"},{"start":7803.732,"end":7828.684,"text":"不怕得罪當道這句話我哪裡說錯啦沒錯 謝謝你嘛 謝謝你肯定沒錯嘛我肯定你十年學術獨立 我也沒說你害怕當道有嗎沒有沒有嘛 那我到底錯在哪裡我沒有說 我說您對我們怨恢這件事情的你不要回到前一題去啦 我現在問你是第二題啦好 第二題沒有錯 第一題說我們對怨恢的說過了你的怨恢一百零四萬值不值得 不是我羅志強評價的嘛"},{"start":7830.885,"end":7858.415,"text":"中研院作為國家的單位對不對你拿的是政府的錢人民來公判合理吧院長合不合理啊人民公判但是要基於事實的陳述基於合理的道理你要一直倒帶我真的也沒辦法啦你要一直倒帶我也真的沒辦法啦就讓大家來看看這兩個院會到底行不行一百四萬嘛沒關係來我把話講完"},{"start":7862.415,"end":7883.953,"text":"好 謝謝您啦 謝謝您啦你剛剛也有玉石啦 不要裝了啦要算時間啦 吳司堯你在司法委員會玉石20分鐘都有啦 好不好雙標王 吳司堯 夠了沒夠了沒有啊通通前面都有玉石 不要告訴我 不要告訴我"},{"start":7885.521,"end":7914.254,"text":"你剛好諮詢幹什麼 時間暫停啊可不可以停下來啊 你要吵去就吵下去啊剛剛關兩分鐘就跟你在對啊你如果沒有預死 你叫我不用預死沒關係你有預死你就不要在那邊跟我說來 沒關係啊好 我們再一分鐘來 少來主席我看一眼 他干擾我發言啦沒關係 剛才應該來 我繼續把他講完 謝謝好 講完我講的不是您啦"},{"start":7915.489,"end":7944.193,"text":"我今天要講的是什麼?我們新任院長他跟不具當道沒有關係他就是當道他就是當道1997年台大調任國科會生物處處長開始就在學術界跟官場上頻繁輪調中研院副院長選上總統副總統卸任回來當中研院特聘研究員然後49萬高薪再借調去當行政院院長現在回來當中研院院長"},{"start":7945.916,"end":7973.653,"text":"我是不知道中研院什麼時候變成是今天官學兩棲的廚房沒有關係嘛 一樣讓社會公判想進就進 想出就出啊我回頭還是要說一件事情今天在這裡我並沒有否定院長你這十年來的表現我即便拿院會的事情來說也是善意的提醒國家公帑基本上怎麼運用要看看人民的想法"},{"start":7974.847,"end":7998.157,"text":"所以我還是祝福院長今天你圓滿卸任希望你接下來能夠繼續為國家有更多的奉獻謝謝你謝謝委員謝謝羅志強委員的質詢也請院長回座接下來我們有請鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在"},{"start":7999.963,"end":8016.885,"text":"洪孟凱委員 洪孟凱委員 洪孟凱委員不在邱志偉委員 邱志偉委員 邱志偉委員不在下一位有請葉元之委員進行詢答"},{"start":8029.608,"end":8048.963,"text":"主席好,麻煩請中研院院長好,有請廖院長院長之前我可不可以程序發言一下我覺得以前我們教文委員會在吳士耀委員來之前好像都不會發生這樣的事情羅志強委員質詢官員要講什麼內容是羅志強委員他的自由吧"},{"start":8049.878,"end":8069.407,"text":"那下面的人可以在那邊說時間超時不是讓你來侮辱官員他可以在下面講話那以後吳思耀在講話的時候我就可以在下面講話我就說哎呀你在那邊質詢不是在那邊護航啦在那邊歌功頌德啦在那邊講自己好啊那我們的質詢沒有意義嘛每一個人幾分鐘要尊重質詢者啊跟"},{"start":8070.467,"end":8092.321,"text":"因為委員回應齁因為在吳佩奕委員之前我們有宣告等一下主席會嚴格把關時間也請大家自我指控因為我們要接續預算我覺得我尊重主席的裁量我也尊重主席的判準都OK那不是說大家在那邊等人家質詢然後在下面干擾"},{"start":8093.291,"end":8108.118,"text":"那我覺得大家質詢就會沒有辦法很專心認真的去跟官員做對談嘛這是尊重我們教文委員會每個委員的職權嘛是不是那我們就開始計時了嗎可以可以 謝謝"},{"start":8109.451,"end":8137.472,"text":"院長那個今天 院長好好回啊好回啊 因為我有看到就是大概6月21號就有新的院長上任了啦雖然說中研院來我們教文的跟別的部會比較頻率比較不高啦相對比較不高但是在很少就是比較少數跟院長接觸的過程當中覺得院長是一個非常讓人家很崇敬的學者啦講話很實在然後對然後也在學術上也都很有成就那我今天看"},{"start":8138.713,"end":8162.175,"text":"中研院的報告裡面其實看了一句話我自己覺得我自己覺得非常的認同就是中研院做研究其實重點還是要跟社會接軌要把研究這個事情怎麼去解決社會的問題那我中研院現在有三件事情看起來是主要的研究的重點要去解決社會問題有三個量子電腦靜靈碳排跟AI這是在你們報告裡面寫的沒錯吧"},{"start":8163.718,"end":8169.412,"text":"我想先來問一下淨零碳排因為我們其實很久以前就已經很擔心說會缺電"},{"start":8172.523,"end":8199.203,"text":"最近有一個新聞是說前經濟部長王美花其實在2018年那時候台積電就跟經濟部長說要申請先進製程的廠的時候就已經提到2奈米的計畫甚至連1奈米的計畫都已經提出來在2018年的時候換言之當時其實我們的政府就已經知道未來的用電需求量會非常大你看2018年就已經提出那麼多的擴廠計畫"},{"start":8200.56,"end":8204.449,"text":"那我不曉得啦院長您是這個2018年那時候還沒有當院長嗎"},{"start":8207.651,"end":8231.961,"text":"應該還沒2026-10應該是20162016已經當院長了已經當院長對那你看喔2018年經濟部長就已經得知就是台積電未來會有很多的擴廠計畫可見用電非常需求是的那我不懂為什麼在過去幾年我們的政府好像對於用電這件事情是不是很重視"},{"start":8232.941,"end":8252.696,"text":"包括我們在野黨很緊張啊想說那是不是你看其他各國都已經開始用核電了我們應該要放寬核電廠研議的這個標準讓核電廠可以順利研議所以法規鬆綁讓政府可以思考重啟可以多眼彈性但是在2025年我們在教育委員會修核管法的時候"},{"start":8253.436,"end":8270.669,"text":"那個時候只是把核電廠研議的法規鬆綁我們就被執政黨亂罵所以我們有的委員執政黨的委員還說我們是要幫中共公台開後門然後動不動在那邊扯說那核廢料放誰家核廢料放誰家就是很不理性的討論這件事情"},{"start":8271.529,"end":8297.674,"text":"現在沒想到賴總統很理性喔賴總統說感謝在野黨支持核官法所以現在核二核三至少核三現在已經送了再運轉計畫就要朝這個研議的方向去前進所以核電看起來是有重啟的機會請問一下這個院長我覺得我們大家務實在講這個事情您的評估是說大概2050年可能會用到5000億度嘛"},{"start":8298.914,"end":8325.132,"text":"那如果AI或半導體這些需求更大的話呢它很有可能會到6000億度那我們現在一年大概是2800億度換言之2050年 今年是2026年25年後我們的發電量要倍增啊那我們可以往前推嘛我們往前推 請問一下2000年就是我們往前推25年2001年的時候的發電量跟現在發電量有到倍增嗎沒有吧"},{"start":8326.881,"end":8330.408,"text":"如果沒有的話我們有什麼信心是2025年到2050年我們的發電量要倍增"},{"start":8336.472,"end":8363.38,"text":"我们需要倍增的原因最主要是要把现在不是用电的能源直接燃烧那个能源要把它变成用电为什么因为用电比较干净也比较好控管排碳假如我们不在意这件事情我们电是不需要成长那么多只需要应付比如说AI跟晶片的成长这样就可以了"},{"start":8364.3,"end":8391.451,"text":"所以我們為什麼要急速變成這個電要成長這麼多呢是因為我們要把現在直接燒煤燒這個油的這一部分變成用電那這個就很多對 當然那當然那假如我們在乎就不會那麼多你說不在乎什麼不在乎這個排碳的話那當然我們是希望說大家要很在乎排碳"},{"start":8393.892,"end":8414.681,"text":"不是 店長 你的一個目標叫淨零碳排嘛所以當然是要把那個碳考量進來嘛對嘛 所以把碳考量進來的時候就是六千億度嘛 或五千億度到六千億度嘛對 五千億 對 沒錯對 沒有錯嘛 那我現在的問題我問題其實問得很精確啦 好不好是說 現在到底 以你的研究"},{"start":8415.601,"end":8425.973,"text":"因為也是要跟社會接軌嘛有沒有信心到了2050年我們發電可以到5000億度到6000億度等於是倍增啊沒有信心那怎麼辦那勢必會影響到產業的發展啊"},{"start":8430.339,"end":8447.926,"text":"全世界共同面對的問題不只是台灣我跟各位跟委員稍微解釋一下大家都定了這個2050定一個很高遠的目標但是都期待說在這過程當中我們會有一些突破性的發展那這些發展大家引頸氣盼但是還沒有發生"},{"start":8451.328,"end":8468.683,"text":"所以現在問說將來這個店怎麼來特別是乾淨的店怎麼來確實是全世界都不知道說怎麼辦除了有幾個大家說有幾個方向是一定要走的那這個是大家有一些共識但是不是可以走這麼快走這麼遠那這個"},{"start":8471.886,"end":8496.491,"text":"大家這個信心是確實是有點缺乏所以現在就兩個可能嘛第一個可能就是2050年我們真的非常努力或者是新科技的研發讓我們的發電量到了五千億到六千億這是一種可能乾淨的電我知道第二種可能就是我們為了要滿足工業的用電或各種的用電但是沒有辦法達到就可能沒有辦法達到淨零碳排所以這兩個"},{"start":8497.631,"end":8514.34,"text":"目標如果都要達到目前為止以中研院的研究看起來是比較沒有信心的是很困難很困難那我再問一下因為現在包括像台積電包括很多大的公司他們其實都已經說他們店都在用綠電就是不用碳排的"},{"start":8515.239,"end":8541.053,"text":"可見就是綠電的需求量會越來越大是的那我們現在以台灣來講我們發展的綠電在幾年內有可能會滿足到所有企業發展嗎也是非常困難也是非常困難所以現在我們希望做的是做低碳電低碳電第二當然是我們要大力發展那除了第二之外我們也推出這個高效太陽能板"},{"start":8542.233,"end":8561.022,"text":"這是我們關鍵議題研究中心太陽能團隊製作的我們自研自製自發的高效太陽能板它的效率達到接近30%這比目前市售的要高所以我們從各方向齊頭並進來努力那這個什麼時候可以商品化"},{"start":8562.485,"end":8582.581,"text":"請問關鍵中心我們已經跟一些產業界已經形成研發聯盟您來講一下我是關鍵中心主任太陽能的研發目前已經跟國內幾家很有名的大廠正在談合作因為院長拿出來這個已經是模組化但是目前要大量生產"},{"start":8583.241,"end":8601.458,"text":"這個一定要業界的幫忙我們在實驗室是沒辦法做的可是從業界給我們的反應其實好像非常有機會因為這個主席已經站起來了你就跟我講個大概十成啊十成啊因為我跟你講大家其實會擔心嘛產業界也會擔心嘛那當然如果中研院有好的研發成果然後可以幫助解決問題很棒嘛"},{"start":8601.738,"end":8618.586,"text":"那但是總是要講一個時辰,不能說這東西等到OOE研發出來,那量產方可能要十年後所以你要講一個大概的日期我們希望在一兩年內就可以有商品出來好,謝謝好,謝謝葉園居委員的諮詢,請院長回座接下來有請羅廷偉交委進行詢答"},{"start":8626.943,"end":8655.072,"text":"好謝謝主席有請院長廖院長好有請廖院長羅偉院長好院長好院長即將要退休那卸任卸任好對不起的卸任那有沒有什麼未來的規劃我會繼續在中研院有什麼職位我在中研院擔任這個生化所擔任特別研究員"},{"start":8657.062,"end":8682.794,"text":"那我想跟你請教一下因為2016年當年那位家裡有事回家幫忙那我想您也來到了中研院擔任院長十年過去了未來在中研院還是我們最重要的一個研究最高機關那有沒有什麼建議在即將卸任的時候要給未來的團隊甚至是賴總統"},{"start":8684.899,"end":8701.617,"text":"我想大家都知道说中文院的使命是做基础研究我们也希望在做基础研究同时要注意几件事情第一个我们做的基础是真正针对重要关键的问题来做"},{"start":8703.159,"end":8717.559,"text":"第二个呢我们不能把我们的眼光只放在实验室的基础我们更要把这个基础推广到实际能够在社会上应用包括这个以"},{"start":8717.939,"end":8736.116,"text":"理工生医方面我们讲的可能是继转或在医院或在产业界或在工业界在人文社会科学方面或是落实成帮助政府制定一些政策的后面理论的基础"},{"start":8737.096,"end":8755.362,"text":"那這些都是我們應該朝那個方向來做的我想講出非常務實但是也是一種擔憂那我覺得這個部分非常重要但回顧這十年來中研院在國際的排名關鍵科技的一個突破以及人才培育等方面你認為最重要的三項成果是什麼"},{"start":8757.987,"end":8783.94,"text":"假如我们跳开这些指标性的数值的话我们最大的突破大概第一个是黑洞发现整个团队再过来我们的量子计划在过去很短的时间内我们达到20位元的量子电脑而且我们在制程方面有相当突出的表现"},{"start":8785.621,"end":8810.976,"text":"這兩個研究都把我們帶上的國際水準那除此之外呢我們譬如說在癌症的研究方面我們也發現了這個肺癌的成因之一那這些也很好的成就在這個氣候變遷方面我們推估山區的氣候怎麼樣變遷這個模式也登上國際頂尖的期刊我們在"},{"start":8812.136,"end":8831.382,"text":"這個光合作用二氧化碳的吸收方面也是有很大的突破好 看起來不只三項成果啦但是我們都希望說未來在你領軍的這個過程當中有所形成的不管是風氣也好或者是這些成果也好能夠繼續帶動成為下一個十年的養分"},{"start":8832.102,"end":8846.811,"text":"那今天媒體報導教育部你成立台灣高等研究學院結合台大、清大、陽明教大以及成大、市所、大學我們相關的與中研院的資源目標是為了落實賴總統所提出的333諾貝爾計畫那我想"},{"start":8849.873,"end":8867.651,"text":"也就是在30年我們之內要在物理化學醫學三個領域拿下三座諾貝爾獎這個計畫當中呢我想有沒有跟你事前討論過我不清楚你不清楚所以今天有看報導"},{"start":8869.355,"end":8893.764,"text":"早上有傳到我的信箱裡 有看到這個新聞除了新聞之外 我不知道其他內容所以你也不太清楚我不清楚哇 是是是 我想台灣要拿諾貝爾獎 院長曾經之前說過要做四件事情分別是以長期穩定的基礎科學包括剛剛我在問你的時候 你有什麼要建議的你也對基礎科學"},{"start":8894.344,"end":8922.621,"text":"是的那我想仍然是这个要重视这个研发的环境跟风气对我们要带动对我们要带动一个这个勇于挑战困难问题的一个风气对所以我第二个要讲就是努力尝试嘛你也讲过嘛对不论是制度做法都要努力做不同的方向是的那第三当然是要容许失败"},{"start":8923.041,"end":8939.534,"text":"是的要鼓勵研究人員對嘛你要減少外界的干擾讓研究人員可以認真的去做專心研究沒錯所以在這個部分上我覺得說台灣高等研究學院的構想算是院長你口中的努力嘗試嗎"},{"start":8940.845,"end":8958.153,"text":"我想這是一個聽這個從字面上看來是一個蠻不錯的方向新的一個方向嘛對 因為我不知道詳細的內容所以我也不變這個評論那你覺得中研院在這個高等研究學院裡面扮演什麼角色目前因為我不瞭解我沒辦法評論因為我覺得你們角色比較被動"},{"start":8959.413,"end":8986.845,"text":"那主要毕竟是教育部的构想但是我觉得结合中学院的一些既有的政策盘点一下也避免说资源重叠我认为这有必要性我们不希望说资源重叠的一个状况而且如果这一个高等研究学院成真的话可能会把散落各个机关的基础研究的经费另外可能吸走或者是集中在这个台湾高等研究学院"},{"start":8987.685,"end":9010.41,"text":"那這個部分上您覺得呢?我希望是另外的經費來支援這個那不要把現有的經費挪一部分去做那個這樣的話可能會造成一些負面的效果所以這方面經費的配置恐怕還是需要仔細研商"},{"start":9010.99,"end":9035.64,"text":"好我想因為雖然你要卸任但是我們認為對你這個部分來說我們非常希望有機會在這樣子的一個狀況之下能夠採納你一些建議那最後我想跟你請問一下剛剛羅志強委員有詢問這個怨恢是不是你可以再做一些補充好這個"},{"start":9039.682,"end":9063.309,"text":"因為我們真的不是針對怨輝來改變我們是整個我們形象識別系統是整個形象識別系統包括顏色的運用包括網頁的主視覺它在不同媒體不同媒介上的形現方式有些比較好有些比較不好在整體的考量之下"},{"start":9066.691,"end":9086.947,"text":"這個設計的業務單位找來這個設計公司做的結果是這樣的一個結果這個跟這個怨恢是毫無關係的但我想委員提出的這些說法也應該虛心指教啦是沒錯待會是不是也應該有這個機會跟委員說明一下是是是因為"},{"start":9087.748,"end":9110.474,"text":"事實上我本人雖然字寫得不好但是我對書法是非常有興趣特別是我祖先也是一個書法家所以我對這方面是很尊敬的雖然我字寫得很草好 那張偉你讓我幫你問問題你總要多給我一點時間吧"},{"start":9115.389,"end":9139.486,"text":"好那我們115年度我們的預算叫114年度大幅增加近14億那我們看到增加的經費用於AI創新應用醫療南部的院區發展量子科技還有經建的實驗大樓等項目請院長一下這14億預算的增幅預期能為國家帶來哪些具體的科研"},{"start":9140.146,"end":9168.795,"text":"突破經濟效應特別是AI和量子科技的部分中研院的研發如何跟國際接軌這個其實我也蠻有興趣想跟你詢問一下我們在南部院區投資很多在做量子的研究這方面我們會結合國際的單位包括一些國際知名的研究團隊廠商等共同進行合作"},{"start":9169.635,"end":9184.413,"text":"希望把这些资源同时也跟国内的各团队一起共享我们希望在短期之内能够在台湾开启量子电脑的产业"},{"start":9186.805,"end":9207.102,"text":"實際的應用啦實際應用但是我還是要提醒就像今天我一開週明一就問你嘛有幾項成果嘛你也提到像今天我們也看到你列舉的不管是20位元的超導量的一個量子電腦以及乳癌風險然後還有你剛剛說的氣候變遷等等我還是要再一次的提醒希望這些科研成果能夠轉換為實際的產業價值帶動國內的一個產業經濟的一個提升發展"},{"start":9213.067,"end":9226.778,"text":"刚刚叶元之委员说他很关心我们刚刚所有的这些我们科研成果是不是能够模组化以后赶快变成量产这个部分还是希望最后你能够帮我们在实际的督促是这个部分可以吗好谢谢委员"},{"start":9229.284,"end":9242.922,"text":"非常感謝羅廷瑋趙偉也請院長回座現場有洪孟楷委員他希望還是爭取質詢是不是可以如果大家沒意見就三分鐘嚴守三分鐘可以好來請"},{"start":9252.165,"end":9269.662,"text":"感謝主席不過主席我想這應該是我們每位委員的基本權利啦質詢也不需要說其他委員的一個徵詢啦因為其他委員會其實沒有這樣子有點奇怪不過感謝還是感謝主席那我們請我們的廖院長來有請廖院長"},{"start":9273.887,"end":9294.445,"text":"委員長十年在中研院那即將在一個月就要卸下重責謝謝本席今天其實來我想我會更高層次的看待就是說因為中研院是我們國家最高的一個知識水準的這個核心那大家都是這聰明的大腦"},{"start":9295.717,"end":9307.015,"text":"昨天我看到有一個眾議院院士他接受媒體專訪的時候特別講了很嚴重的話他講說現在司法監察檢察總長通通代理台灣正淪為劍動人政府"},{"start":9309.758,"end":9327,"text":"他的 我不知道這個報導你有看到嗎沒有沒有看到好 這是我們哲學院院士接受專訪的話他立基點主要是幾個就是說現在整個國家體制當然這兩年立法院我有去常常一直強調只要行政部門提出好的人權立法院不會無條"},{"start":9328.181,"end":9342.689,"text":"無意義的杯葛但如果說沒有提出好的人選的話我們沒有辦法通盤接受我們不是橡皮圖章這是行政立法互相制衡可是另外一個部分是現在國家整個都已經變成是都代理化不管是檢察總長"},{"start":9343.709,"end":9371.671,"text":"不管是NCC委員其實都沒有被提名而這樣子的一個狀況代理的制度只會讓這一個官員他可能是聽命行政部門聽命上議而揣摩上議而沒有辦法實質大開大合大破大立所以院長最後一個月的時間過去十年你也在中研院這邊貢獻很多當然未來你還是院士持續要努力但我想請教一下您對於整個國家的實證來講"},{"start":9373.112,"end":9395.264,"text":"您的看法是什麼?很抱歉這部分我比較沒有在關注沒有在研究不過我想一切國家的行政最好是回歸到正常的體制您覺得可以無條件代理嗎?包括我們現在五院的司法院院長已經代理了快兩年的時間"},{"start":9397.326,"end":9414.292,"text":"這個我不便做評論第一方面我不是專家第二方面我也沒有研究那這個代理期間是多是少我想可能要視狀況來決定院長本席非常了解中研院的角色但是更重要的是因為過去"},{"start":9416.394,"end":9440.829,"text":"所有最聰明的大腦一個國家最優質的人才稱為士大夫士大夫的責任士大夫對於國家社會的責任其實要比一般的民眾更高所以才會有講說先天下之優而優後天下之樂而樂本期為什麼會刻意要問這樣的問題就是希望是說你能夠真的發揮因為最後一次在這個備詢台上了"},{"start":9441.289,"end":9467.257,"text":"未來你可能也沒有機會再來這個備軍台但本席想要聽到的是當我們國家一個重要的機構的院長對於現在的時政你覺得可以持續待也下去嗎或是說我們是不是應該要尋求一個突破僵局的機會行政部門是不是應該也要跟立法部門來做溝通朝野應該要做更和諧甚至總統如果說有那個高度的話是不是應該也要召開在野黨的相關的一個會議"},{"start":9469.188,"end":9492.746,"text":"我想大方向您讲的是同意的我们应该力求回到正常的体制朝野要和谐这大方向是同意的详细状况我们可能要会后跟委员再做详细的讨论因为确实对这个问题比较没有研究"},{"start":9494.676,"end":9518.444,"text":"中研院是本席敬重的單位因為所有的院士都是在各領域的精英佼佼者也是過去接受中華民國的栽培因此本席才會希望沒有黨派色彩今天如果說是國民黨執政做這樣的事情本席一樣會嚴厲的抨擊因為我的標準是一致的但我不希望現在民進黨政府主導下"},{"start":9519.324,"end":9531.056,"text":"而讓國家越來越沉淪這才是本期今天所質詢的重點感謝院長謝謝洪孟楷委員的質詢也請體諒因為過號之後很多委員在等著處理預算謝謝您的體諒也請院長回座"},{"start":9538.484,"end":9565.541,"text":"好今天登记质询的委员均已发言完毕询答结束另有林怡瑾委员提出书面质询列入公报记录并请相关机关以书面答复我们继续进行预算案的审查为了利于讨论需要准备协商场地我们在这边宣布休息十分钟现在休息"},{"start":9572.779,"end":9574.72,"text":"美国国际大学"},{"start":10032.208,"end":10033.149,"text":"謝謝大家的收看"},{"start":10110.447,"end":10128.036,"text":"現在進行預算案審查中央研究院單位預算提案共計120案中央研究院科學研究基金預算提案共計20案進行討論前先說明預算案的處理方式"},{"start":10129.056,"end":10153.728,"text":"第一委员所提预算提案岁入部分依来源别以向为单位岁出的部分依机关别以幕或节为单位依序进行审查第二各预算案于处理委员所提之增删提案后其余未涉及之预算部分均与照列"},{"start":10154.548,"end":10174.264,"text":"第三 预算提案如改主决议或修正内容请机关将修正内容经提案委员签名同意后送交主席台并列入公报记录第四 请参阅提案会整表及提案本进行讨论"},{"start":10175.866,"end":10189.566,"text":"请议事人员宣读预算数及提案内容并进行讨论与协商讨论时如有新增或修正文字之主决议请议事人员一并宣读"},{"start":10210.121,"end":10234.466,"text":"好那我們就開始了辛苦大家現在是11點23分希望今天一切都很順利首先我們來處理稅入部分第四款財產收入第五項中央研究院提案案號是第一案來"},{"start":10236.496,"end":10257.85,"text":"提案委員好 這個是我的提案那今年我們的稅務預算是編70萬換了114年是291萬5千113年是251萬所以看起來依照實境狀況應當是有增列的空間所以這部分我是建議依照實際的情形來增列那麼金額的話是不是請中研院來評估"},{"start":10259.111,"end":10281.603,"text":"是總務處報告謝謝委員的指正這部分有調升的空間那因為標賣品的部分來源都不確定所以會有多有少我們是希望說建議可不可以我們就調升為一百萬是不是可以接受是這個同意同意那主席另外就是我的提案五十一八十跟八十八要改成主決議是主席"},{"start":10284.106,"end":10289.194,"text":"謝謝吳佩儀委員那現在我就來宣讀審查的結果"},{"start":10291.943,"end":10317.056,"text":"第四款財產收入第五項中央研究院提案案號第一案審查結果如下增列100萬元稅入處理完畢繼續來處理稅出提案處理以募或結為單位依序由各提案委員先就提案內容進行說明再由機關代表予以答覆然後依募或結"},{"start":10317.876,"end":10344.737,"text":"做成結議現在我們來處理最初部分第一款第五項中央研究院通案部分提案暗號是第二案及第三案中央研究院部分來請提案委員第二跟第三好沒有意見好"},{"start":10346.328,"end":10370.413,"text":"那在這邊宣讀審查結果第五項中央研究院通案部分提案案號第二案及第三案審查結果如下照列接著處理第五項中央研究院通案部分提案案號第四案至第八案媒體政策及業務宣導費請提案委員說明來陳秀馬委員再來葛國軍委員"},{"start":10376.156,"end":10398.934,"text":"謝主席我的案子是第八案這個部分呢是主要是針對美訊費用信息介入的這個問題那我是提到說針對介入這個項目平和指標級目標值應該要納入那眾議員這邊來說明的時候有說這個相關的項目呢就會納入在116年的預算書所以這個案子我可以改組決議我就不堅持 以上好"},{"start":10400.598,"end":10417.929,"text":"接著葛如君委員好 謝謝主席那這案呢科目名稱上雖然是寫科學之初但其實我們了解了以後其實就是沒宣廢啦那我們是沒有反對沒宣廢尤其我們阿宅就絕對是支持這個科學這個研究的相關的媒體宣傳剛才在詢答的時候也感謝主席讓我有時間給院長這個講了很多句話來宣傳中研院"},{"start":10427.355,"end":10445.944,"text":"非常棒的福利來鼓勵研究人員的加入我想我們剛剛那幾秒鐘可能也是一種媒體宣傳因為都有直播所以我想我們是絕對支持的那中研院有來說明表達說116年度會揭露相關的目標值那因此本席有同意就此案改組決議"},{"start":10446.724,"end":10468.548,"text":"那116预算马上就要到了也请中研院务必落实承诺就相关的名称名目以及目标值都希望能够更加的清晰这样让我们能够做比较好的check balance谢谢那除了458案改为主决议那其余的我们就并动吗"},{"start":10469.667,"end":10470.708,"text":"提案案號第九案業務費向下的大陸地區領費請提案委員"},{"start":10500.182,"end":10519.605,"text":"好 沒有意見好 那就照列我來宣讀第五項中央研究院通案部分提案案號第九案業務費向下大陸地區旅費審查結果如下經費照列接著處理第五項中央研究院通案部分提案案號第十案業務費向下的約用人員酬金好 請定案委員"},{"start":10521.166,"end":10535.894,"text":"謝謝主席本席在這邊提出有關於中研院在聘僱臨時人員的酬金的部分因為他今年編了34億那在過去其實他每年的編列的數額大概都是差不多30億到32億左右但是呢實際上決算數也就是說他們沒有用掉這麼多那麼大概都是維持在差不多"},{"start":10546.3,"end":10564.293,"text":"29 28亿左右然后每年都还有剩余大概2亿多到3亿多的这个经费所以呢本席认为说其实如果中研院没有办法花掉那么多的钱的话就是事实上可能也没有需要这样支出的话就是应该要经费专节使用啊所以本席在这边提出就是说三减"},{"start":10565.293,"end":10581.597,"text":"2億元而且不得留用這個其實刪減2億元對於中研院來講不過就是他們過去的執行率本來也就沒有就是到差不多30億左右所以就這次增加的部分那本席認為其實是沒有編列的必要所以呢予以刪減好還有沒有其他的委員有意見好吳斯堯委員之後我們就請中研院做說明"},{"start":10590.844,"end":10614.813,"text":"關於這個提案我也做了一些了解我是想請眾議院回答這一筆的臨時人員的酬金科目下編列的我就兩個問題會影響到的支領的是哪些人員第二個今年的質詢率到目前為止是多少我先回答這兩個我才能夠接著我的問題是好 請眾議院說明"},{"start":10620.14,"end":10634.45,"text":"委員好 我是眾議院的事實主任那有關於剛才我們編列這個部分預算那大家可以看到剛才院長的那份報告裡面我們眾議院的成員的部分那這部分的薪資是我們約聘僱人員大概佔我們51%"},{"start":10636.512,"end":10657.63,"text":"這個部分是他的用人費那我們中研院的約聘僱人員其實跟一般的行政機關用人不一樣我們的約聘僱人員分成兩個部分那第一個部分就是我們基礎研究的研究助理的部分另外一個我們是為了銜接就是未來他的研究的部分就是博士後這個部分所以這一塊34億的部分原則上都是他們的薪資就是我們用人費的部分"},{"start":10658.05,"end":10672.917,"text":"所以這個部分那剛才吳少偉有垂詢到說我們現在執行的部分因為我們現在編列34億那現在是5月那基本上按照我們族裔市的統計現在已經用了11億那以人員的部分來講我們大概缺額率"},{"start":10673.337,"end":10693.522,"text":"那缺額率這個不是缺額 是我們都在招募當中那剛才我有說明到說 我們跟一般的研究行政就是我們月聘僱人是臨時性的工作行政是不一樣的我們是研究 然後計畫 如果他當時計畫這個結束了我需要的是下一個計畫的研究人員的話那當然這個部分的空缺是我們在延攬人員的這個過程當中"},{"start":10695.402,"end":10721.08,"text":"所以基本上這10%的缺額不是不需要是我們都還在延攬人員的過程中所以以這個部分來講我們現在缺額率如果以往年我們13的話剛才的執行率現在已經11億了所以以現在來講的話我們平常如果缺額率超過13的話現在我們已經只剩下17了那以上說明所以我接著這個就是說這一筆如果被刪減或預算受了影響好 那"},{"start":10723.379,"end":10747.901,"text":"具體會影響到的是我們的兩大類的人一個是研究助理第二類其實就是我們流財攬財最重要不是後研究的這一群而且相對都年輕世代那我認為我當然認為我需要為這群研究人員來發聲第二個是到目前為止如果剛剛您的說明我的試算就是應當是我們已經執行了83%"},{"start":10751.032,"end":10771.217,"text":"已經執行了83%所以說應當比較不會發生像過去委員認為說有該用沒用完的但是你剛剛也試圖說明了有一些缺不是就不要而是我們持續在招人聘人他可能順利的話下個月就進來五個"},{"start":10772.637,"end":10799.486,"text":"所以说我觉得为我们的研究量能来保持这样子的人事费用那当然我们要督促你们赶快尽可能去把人力聘足让我们的研究的成果才能够彰显所以我真的觉得这个提案请提案的委员可能要多加思考这些年轻世代的研究助理跟博士后的研究员我觉得这个如果我们立法院做成这样子的删减真的可能大家都不太好受"},{"start":10800.126,"end":10829.506,"text":"所以我必須表達我反對的立場我希望能夠照列這筆預算那副院長你可以再綜合回覆一下謝謝翁委員提的問題然後也謝謝吳委員的釐清我想這一部分我要特別要補充一下我們這個34億底下聘用了3500位的優聘僱人員在六個工作計畫向下而這個六個工作計畫依大院的解釋是不能互通的"},{"start":10830.546,"end":10855.263,"text":"這個是問題對我們很大的挑戰然後臨時人員籌集又是不能流入只能流出所以我們在使用上是非常非常的緊再來我們的約聘過人員就像剛才葛蔚也提到我們的薪資很偏低所以我們對我們這個3600位裡面有1200位是博士他們表現好我們就要提薪我們要不然就沒辦法留住"},{"start":10855.743,"end":10878.543,"text":"另外我們最近也延攬了很多國外的博士來做博士後那我們這個薪水沒有辦法做稍微的彈性那我們就會有困難那假如說把我們這個刪掉這個錢我們有可能未來就有可能會薪水發不出來在某些工作計畫上下會發不出來這是我們最大的困難這個也請這個翁委員能夠理解謝謝"},{"start":10879.895,"end":10903.932,"text":"好 谢谢中研院的说明那我想温委员他现在应该大概都了解了来 请我想我在这边我要重申我基本上是支持中研院可以就是有余力有足够的经费可以去聘研究助理还有postdoc那么毕竟我也是从学校出来的那我也必须要讲就是中研院所拿的研究经费事实上"},{"start":10904.733,"end":10910.179,"text":"台湾所有的国立大学非常非常羡慕的你们的研究经费大概是全部的国立大学前十名加起来的话大概至少占了50%以上那现在基本上我是提出一个客观的数据"},{"start":10919.77,"end":10948.329,"text":"也就是说你们其实每年都有编临时人员的酬金那事实上就是超编就是用不了那么多既然是这样的情况在我们现在国家举债四千多亿然后民进党政府又不断的扩编国防预算它势必一定会挤压到我们其他所有的这个预算经费不管是社福教育文化等等这方面经费我想每一个机关包含中研院在内都应该要尊杰使用那么所以本席在这边我也不是说提二十亿"},{"start":10950.17,"end":10970.735,"text":"不是提这样的数字只是说把你们今年增加的部分还有考虑到你们过去事实上每年大概就是差不多29亿左右的这样的情况那么多一点点的部分然后予以删除那当然了如果说考虑到就是说这笔钱那么中研院认为说有信心可能可以维持到去年的这样的一个执行率"},{"start":10971.395,"end":10987.325,"text":"差不多可以用到29亿30亿的话那我的想法是说就多给你们一点点余处那么如果说就是减列就1亿那么希望就是说在这样的范围里面然后中研院也要合理的去检讨你们目前"},{"start":10988.627,"end":11011.592,"text":"使用的这个临时聘会人员是否这样子的原额数是合理的不要忘记了其实中研院的经费不只来自于中研院还包含国科会其他部会机关也给中研院的很多研究员非常多足额的经费你们的经费支出使用范围已经是比别的研究机构要多很多所以我也希望说中研院能够尊杰使用以上"},{"start":11012.432,"end":11031.113,"text":"那個翁委員因為那個先聽聽中研院的說法來請這個再謝謝翁委員進一步的釐清其實我們的很多研究經費是幫助大學比如說我們的人文社會講座我們都編了九千多萬是給哪些呢是陽明交大北一那個還有國防"},{"start":11032.034,"end":11051.306,"text":"那這些我們在教書的過程中一樣我們要聘這個臨時人員來協助當助教所以這一部分其實我們的經費很多是幫助大學的這一次我們跟大學是互相合作比如說剛才我們院長提到的我們中原學者其實也是跟大學我們這個"},{"start":11052.487,"end":11076.78,"text":"編的經費不完全是我們眾院在做我們其實是跟大學一起合作的一起為我們國內的學術來做 一起努力好 謝謝汪委員 謝謝那汪委員這樣好不好因為早上質詢第一位柯志恩委員他有提到說歷年來不曾刪過眾院院的經費是不是這個部分沒關係"},{"start":11079.422,"end":11094.109,"text":"對 沒關係因為我來自學界基本上我對中研院的見解還是相當了解的所以我的意思是說還沒講完是不是讓中研院跟您再做一下溝通我們把這一案等一下後面我們先趕進一步可以嗎好 謝謝翁委員的體諒好 那我們接著來處理第一幕一般行政"},{"start":11103.066,"end":11131.974,"text":"第一 提案案號是第十一案至第十四案來 羅廷偉委員好胡思堯委員 來 請好 我是第十二案那有兩案首先有關中研院被詐騙的事情我在物理所的預算也有寫到在第五十九案今天一併一起談我先談一下這個勞資會議我很關注勞權所以上一次預算審查的時候有特別提出政治所的徵才違法就業服務法"},{"start":11132.814,"end":11158.989,"text":"希望中研院要注意當然也謝謝中研院重視我的意見後續盤點所有的求財資訊但今天我提出的勞資會議的案有昨天中研院來溝通說明的時候也有一併說明有時候未定期三個月召開的原因是因為沒有議案要討論所以經各代表同意所以研會一次但我今天想特別再提出來講是因為中研院有北部跟南部的院區依照勞資會議的實施辦法"},{"start":11161.05,"end":11176.264,"text":"第二條規定事業單位本來就應該依本辦法規定來做相關的舉辦勞資會議其事業場所所有勞工人數在30人以上者亦應分別來辦理之"},{"start":11177.423,"end":11201.768,"text":"所以院長重點在於事業場所勞工人數30人以上應該分別舉辦的這一句我再重申關鍵是事業場所30人以上分別舉辦這些關鍵字你們要掌握北部跟南部的院區應該視為不同的事業場所需求應該也不同所以我應該要建議的是要分別辦理院長"},{"start":11202.878,"end":11231.178,"text":"不要忘記勞權那再來就是這案有內部的我們看到這個詐騙三千萬的公款我要再問的是內部集合是內部集合發現的還是因為檢舉發現的那我在乎的是國人的納稅錢你現在找到這件事情了誰要為這件事情負責那如何防備針對其他的所實驗室有沒有開始調查類似的情形"},{"start":11232.159,"end":11236.725,"text":"不是說只有這一件事情防範有沒有通案去做這樣子的一個調查這個請回應"},{"start":11240.066,"end":11263.224,"text":"好謝謝羅昭偉接下來是胡思堯委員我的提案14案中研院大概是大家看到中研院就是一個學術機構最高的學術殿堂所以看到中研院就真的很容易被拿來做務用"},{"start":11264.659,"end":11292.449,"text":"我的提案其實是也蠻意外的看到中研院的這個被盜版的博弈網站拿去掛羊頭賣狗肉其實到現在我現在在問這個提案到現在我還在剛剛看那個網站還在上面所以中央研究院進入點進去它變成大撈家娛樂城大撈家娛樂城就是博弈網站"},{"start":11293.84,"end":11314.99,"text":"我是不能容忍中研院是這樣子被對啊太過分了那我提案到現在呢我看到你們的回覆是說你們去跟Google溝通然後也考慮用法律採取法律途徑我絕對沒有要三欲三的意思但是我覺得中研院就不能這樣軟趴趴"},{"start":11321.351,"end":11344.919,"text":"所以呢法律行動採取了嗎跟Google的溝通因為到現在他還放在架上幾天了多久了那如果因此又讓別人被騙了呢拜託我們珍惜中研院就不能容許這個事情我認為你們的作為還是再說清楚一點好嗎是第14案部分好請中研院說明"},{"start":11347.594,"end":11366.109,"text":"那剛才有關羅委員講的那個勞資會議的部分我先說明一下因為我們現在勞資會議的部分我們的成立勞方的部分原則上我們南部園區它是我們的一個行政單位就像我們學術處人事室一樣所以原則上我們的勞方出來的是他們直接選舉出來的那我們可能分三學組按他的人數比例他去做直接選舉"},{"start":11366.869,"end":11383.591,"text":"那現在來講的話就是生命組跟數理組還有人文組他們分別是四三二一那南部院區他跟我們一樣同一個單位的話我們選取出來的話我們就是一名原則上就是他是我們的一個行政單位那至於是說這個部分原則上他的代表性啊"},{"start":11383.911,"end":11401.771,"text":"就是說以他來講他其實只是工作是在南部縣區那如果說他們的其他的老方人員有一些相關的權益的部分其實我們在南部縣區有農生中心的一些研究提案還有一些我們剛才講的月聘僱人員他是受腦筋法的部分所以原則上如果他有意見他要"},{"start":11403.572,"end":11427.117,"text":"傳達的時候基本上它有很多的管道比方說我們剛剛講的學組代表的部分還有就是如果是行政人員的部分它一樣就是我們院門部的本身那至於剛剛委員有提到說我們分不同的部分來講那當然這個部分原本我們是有考慮但是因為我們的顧慮是因為以我們現在農生中心南部院區的PI就是資方代表他其實大概去那邊辦公只有10個人左右"},{"start":11427.637,"end":11442.564,"text":"所以這個部分來說如果說剛才委員的建議的部分我們回去我們再研究一下如果說我們要符合那個老師會議的相關規定的話我們再研究看看說我們分別去處理老師會議這個可行性那謝謝委員的建議這樣"},{"start":11444.137,"end":11465.26,"text":"好 謝謝 羅昭維還是要注意剛剛你用到的關鍵字就是工作的場域在南部而已那就是等於我剛剛所提到的事業場所它是不一樣的當然你有提到食人這個部分的我是認為說可以再討論沒關係那就再麻煩你研議一下那另外剛剛有問到的就是內部集合還是"},{"start":11465.78,"end":11492.767,"text":"是 謝謝委員詢問關於我們被詐騙3500萬的這個案子那我們一剛開始的時候其實就有發現到這個實驗室它是有些異常那我們有進行一些查核也有發現到一些異狀那後來呢的確內部也有檢舉向調查局檢舉所以我們後來因為我們是行政單位所以我們只能做行政調查等到調查局進來之後其實我們就是配合完全配合調查局所的調卷和一些後續的一些作為"},{"start":11493.647,"end":11522.002,"text":"那再來改善措施的部分就是它起訴之後我們包括超電腦的實驗室它的一些採購、核銷還有一些明確授權的部分我們都有訂了一些新的改善措施再來就是物理所的部分因為這次主要是一些消耗品的一些管理消耗品管理的部分他們也有強化還有廢棄物那剛有講到就是說我們也會加強一些教育訓練全院的部分我們有針對採購還有消耗品的部分都有再新增加一些"},{"start":11522.963,"end":11533.822,"text":"查核的作業那至於我們內部也有就是針對到底這個管理一定是有問題的所以這個實驗室的負責人管理人所以我們已經有送到學倫去進行審議"},{"start":11534.912,"end":11560.005,"text":"好那剩下就是司法調查嘛那我要問說你有沒有再用這樣子的手法去針對其他的實驗室來看看有沒有調查類似的情形是有我們就是除了針對這個實驗室我們當時就針對它的現況進行調查之外我們在今年集合的時候就是針對採購第一個是採購的流程再來就是各個實驗室的消耗品的管理我們都有在進行那個集合今年都有列進去"},{"start":11560.785,"end":11582.904,"text":"我希望一定要慎重我們不希望這樣子的一個犯罪人一輩子在臭屁他騙的是中研院這是最高學術機構所以這個我們研究機構我們這真的是不能開玩笑的好不好這個特別拜託一下被騙3000多萬都不開玩笑很丟臉所以我們一定要特別注意院長好嗎"},{"start":11583.595,"end":11598.191,"text":"好 非常謝謝羅昭偉關心那我們除了十一、十三還有十四案還沒說明我是治災處處長跟委員來報告一下本院對於我們的商標或者名稱被盜用、誤用"},{"start":11598.812,"end":11625.189,"text":"都是非常積極的去處理但今天這個案子確實有點比較unusual因為我們過去比較常遇到的都是我們的研發成果相關的商標盜用比如說有人會冒冒稱說某一個藥品是眾議院的寄轉那所以這個案子在用在這個賭博網站上面真的是我們第一次看到但是我們還是會積極去處理那我們的處理方式呢因為本身我們並沒有公權力的強制力"},{"start":11626.009,"end":11650.218,"text":"所以我們能夠做的是第一個是先做澄清我們在內部會先對外澄清第二個我們會到派出所去做報案那報案之後他們那邊會就依照相關的公權力的行使去做下架的要求那過去的處理的經驗來看的話我們對於我們有發現商標的盜用或是誤用的後來都有做了這個處理"},{"start":11651.718,"end":11665.727,"text":"那如果有涉及到需要做法律的求償的我們也都不會寬戴以上跟委員做說明那你們去了派出所沒有這個案子因為要先做修正所以這個案子還沒有但是過去案子我們都已經報了"},{"start":11667.037,"end":11695.476,"text":"你要蒐證多久我提案多久了是聽你們多久了你剛說的我們過去被盜用濫用可能是研發成果被別人拿去說是他的成果什麼的不是是他在賣藥說掛了中研院商標一樣的就是我們研發成果變成別人廣告的背書不是廣告的背書這個事情很嚴重但是整個中研院的Logo被拿去變成博弈網站也很嚴重更嚴重"},{"start":11697.257,"end":11709.145,"text":"是那但是跟委員報告就是說動作很慢啊是的我們會再加緊速度非常慢我不能接受耶到現在幾天多久了我們會立即的改進"},{"start":11712.444,"end":11734.929,"text":"我不知道怎麼講下去,院長,這個事情是否重要,是否嚴重?很嚴重,很嚴重,是的然後我現在,我提案幾天,然後我現在在問我期待你們今天告訴我,我還覺得說你的書面報告提的時候是說將採取法律行動我還做求給你說,你已經採取法律行動,你已經去溝通下架你們有沒有找訴發部協助呢?"},{"start":11736.447,"end":11740.696,"text":"這個部分的管道我們也會嘗試都沒有嘛還沒去派出我報案也還沒溝通Google下架也還沒請速發部幫忙"},{"start":11749.076,"end":11770.774,"text":"我們會立即跟派出所來備案因為跟我們報告我們之前跟派出所報案的經驗就是說報案之後派出所會希望我們提供更多的包含可能的潛在被害人你如果先去報案了就這個案子後續要做怎樣的事情我可以容忍你現在連報案都沒有你想說以前的經驗"},{"start":11774.648,"end":11797.814,"text":"跟委員說明一下就是說因為有一個派出所的SOP他希望我們在報案的同時能夠提供相關的證據這個部分除了委員提供給我們的資料之外我們還在嘗試去找尋有沒有其他的補充的證據那這個在派出所那一端我們是中研院我們有法律研究所化研為用啊結果在遇到這種事情的時候"},{"start":11801.219,"end":11824.643,"text":"第一個我不希望我們碰到這種事情是束手無策這是第一件我覺得你到目前為止是束手無策但是更嚴重的是我認為你沒有想要積極的去解決這個事情有的有的跟委員說明我們有積極的要去處理那你覺得我們今天在審預算了您今天告訴我的題目答案是說我們會我們將結果每一件都沒有做"},{"start":11825.763,"end":11843.673,"text":"我們會做的這個承諾一定會達成那跟委員說明就是說因為派出所希望我們提供的資料裡頭還有一些部分我們沒有辦法馬上提供給派出所可不可以請書發部趕快協助你們好了好的 這沒有問題一週內趕快去處理好嗎好那市議院委員決定怎麼處理這個"},{"start":11845.882,"end":11859.371,"text":"我現在是我們可不可以會後再跟委員說明說我們後面的進度我現在的憤慨比你們的LOGO商標不是商標你們LOGO備用更憤慨你們的動作居然是這樣不夠積極那個反正來反正這一幕會保留嘛對不對"},{"start":11873.018,"end":11880.16,"text":"沒有,這一幕沒有保留好,這一幕沒有保留對,十一、十三已經擺主決議好現在十二、十四那我凍結我從來不會對中研院有任何凍結或刪減因為我都支持你們那就併動十萬等書面報告"},{"start":11894.594,"end":11922.716,"text":"那個 沒關係 我這樣也是最後再回來看一下院長去請大家我希望趕快協助中研院積極的去解決這個事中研院點進去等於博弈網站誰可以容忍這件事好 您到目前的說明我沒有那麼接受那等一下再來跟我說一次我也想想 我沒有碰過我沒有碰過這樣子的狀況好 我們稍後再跟委員報告"},{"start":11924.161,"end":11944.33,"text":"好來第一幕一般行政提案案號第11案至第14案審查結果如下第11第12第13案改為主決議第14案暫時保留後面再討論那補充剛才的第10案暫時保留最後再來處理還有第3案第7案改為主決議"},{"start":11945.41,"end":11963.757,"text":"好 我們接著來處理第二幕一般學術研究及評議第二節學術研究與人才培育提案案號是第十五案至第五十八案來 請提案委員葉雲芝委員然後蔡春綢委員陳培育委員陳秀寶委員吳思瑤委員 請"},{"start":11966.039,"end":11980.311,"text":"我這邊第十七案還有葛烏鈞委員不在他請我幫忙講十五案也是一樣啦就是根據數據顯示好像中研院他的研究經費雖然增加但是呢不管是像學術刊物的產出好像"},{"start":11982.213,"end":12001.994,"text":"這個定期刊物啊 技術報告啊都越來越少然後只有研考會的論文小幅成長那另外研究的技術轉移部分像授權建書 授權金 商專利這些都是下滑那早上我有問院長就是說你們主要的目的還是希望能夠把研究去跟解決社會問題做一個連結嘛"},{"start":12002.955,"end":12029.354,"text":"那這個部分等一下院長說明一下啊我跟葛如君都可以改成主決議啦但是我們還是希望中研院的研究成果可以可以多多的來應用中研院好像今天有個新聞嘛你們也去告微軟嘛就是因為微軟侵犯到中研院的專利嘛啊所以專利的申請也是還是蠻重要的所以這個我不知道這個變少是什麼原因啊是沒有去申請沒有產出還是什麼原因等一下請中研院說明一下那我們我跟葛如君改主決議"},{"start":12030.014,"end":12033.818,"text":"好 謝謝 那等下一併做說明接下來有請蔡春籌委員發言"},{"start":12038.905,"end":12062.765,"text":"我針對二十五案說明一下本席理解中研院是一個基礎研究機構不能只用短期計轉、收入評價、研究成果中研院有補充說明後我也看出過去部分統計問題都是來自於人工回報及定義不一致"},{"start":12063.345,"end":12084.535,"text":"那自112年起改採系統天報這是必要改善的但公共預算仍然要呈現公共效益然後產業效益跟社會的影響那基礎研究不能只用短期的收入來做衡量但也不能完全不檢討成果的一個指標"},{"start":12085.655,"end":12092.964,"text":"那我在這裡呢是也可以建議是可以免於凍結並改於阻結役但是呢我要請中研院在兩個月內能夠提出書面報告審查現場可要求報告內容至少要包括"},{"start":12105.119,"end":12128.649,"text":"近五年研究成果 計轉件數 還有錢利金的一個收入 售錢的策略 三平化的成果還有公益售錢及多元研究效益 指標跟改善方案那第49案呢 可以改成主決議好 謝謝蔡村總委員 接下來是陳北宇委員"},{"start":12135.199,"end":12157.838,"text":"好 谢谢主席我先帮林一锦委员发言他请我帮忙第二幕的部分林一锦委员提到在第19 20 22 24案主要这四个案一起谈是因为希望中研院重视典藏加速数位化还有典藏资料导入AI的应用还有妥善汇整数位化资料还有简化搜寻资料的流程这几个任务"},{"start":12158.559,"end":12175.334,"text":"那你们有跟一级委员说明哦一级委员说在他也可以理解中研院在维域网站上需要经费还有资安的考量可是未来还是希望中研院在这几笔提案的要求之下可以提出妥适的规划必要的时候进行跨机关资料相关法规的研议这是19 22 24"},{"start":12177.256,"end":12195.548,"text":"再來23案的部分它是希望中研院可以轉譯資訊站的研究內容給社會大眾理解的提案希望中研院除了既有的宣傳管道之外如何把這樣的研究內容轉譯成更普及全民的轉譯內容希望可以確實進行所以已經為人說19 22 24 23的凍結數額跟大家一起處理再來第39案第21案"},{"start":12203.793,"end":12223.412,"text":"改成主決議一個是關於學科性質沒有辦法在數字上有更精進的突破改成主決議可是還是希望中研院針對相關議題提出書面報告21案是跟採購舞弊案有關中研院說已經有建立專案查核小組提升查核頻率一樣改成主決議這個是已經委員的部分"},{"start":12224.173,"end":12243.81,"text":"那我的部分从二七案开始是乍领案的部分有一点刚刚罗廷伟有提到其实这两个案件都是好几年前的案例可是因为持续犯刑多年我们在跟中原院沟通的时候你们说你们有内部集合机制教育训练还有三个阶段的财产盘点领用记录"},{"start":12244.551,"end":12273.663,"text":"那上次这两个案件过后呢你们有提出措施的改善可是我们在问到相关个案的时候因为他的行为时间长达13年中研院给我们的回复是说你们有抽查机制也有抽到这间实验室可是没有查到过失所以我认为说如果有查可是没有查到过失那我们背后查查的机制是不是有所调整跟改善呢拜托中研院27案再来是28案的部分是关于"},{"start":12275.41,"end":12292.22,"text":"我剛剛質詢的時候有講到在做相關研究的時候跟民眾的溝通可能相關的溝通方法比較粗糙讓現場要被抽血或是相關的路段都覺得很不舒服這個部分要拜託中研院持續精進我們研究非常重要但是如果有人覺得這個研究讓人覺得很可怕那我覺得這是還蠻嚴重的問題"},{"start":12297.383,"end":12322.801,"text":"29案是关于学轮的部分中研院你们有回复说110年到现在已经累积6个学术伦理检举案审查还有发现三件确实违规那后续中研院在做的一些处理我们目前都可以接受我们当然希望后续更加精进这是29学轮案再来30案的部分是关于院区开放日再次感谢院长希望后续有机会可以持续33案是关于国家语言案"},{"start":12324.081,"end":12340.112,"text":"中研院近年在辦理台語的學術講座跟論壇好評滿滿我要再次感謝中研院好評滿滿我們希望後續有機會發揚國家語言的精神持續擴展到其他領域包含中研院下轄的各個博物館導覽、院慶、兒童日課普活動"},{"start":12342.614,"end":12357.654,"text":"还有因为先前办这个讲座是社会所法律所还有欧美所非常谢谢各位老师的用心未来我们希望有机会拓展到其他专业领域包含数理啊生科啊跨域这些再来38案的部分是关于"},{"start":12359.048,"end":12359.649,"text":"再来第四十案哦"},{"start":12382.088,"end":12397.159,"text":"第40案是关于AI的那个部分的应用如何把这些研究的资料变成是重要的预料素材我刚执行的时候也讲过就不再赘述那我可以改组决议的部分我刚已经跟周围面讨论过了第38案第30案"},{"start":12397.699,"end":12415.18,"text":"第29案33案還有40案可以改組決議好 以上謝謝好 謝謝裴育委員接下來有請陳秀巴委員謝謝主席在這個部分我有三個案子第一個案子是第18案那18案的部分是因為我們中央研究院的學術經費其實持續地在投入"},{"start":12415.68,"end":12438.762,"text":"但是看到这个统计的这个资料显示呢学术成果却好像是减少了这个趋势所以本席很担心说我们投入这么多的学术经费但是如果没有相关的成果是不是说效益不是很好那中研院这边有说明说统计的资料是不是相关统计的认知仪是有点误解所以说其实不是统计数字上面这个样子"},{"start":12439.302,"end":12464.154,"text":"那中研院根据新统计的资料来看呢我们的学术成果的产出是持平的那有一点点微幅下降是因为有些是有同仁退休那这个部分早上本席在咨询的时候有提到提醒到我们中研院对我们人才的禁用及断层这个问题要多加留意那因为中研院有做说明了所以这个案子我可以改成主决议我没有坚持一定要动那第二个案子是48案"},{"start":12465.554,"end":12493.032,"text":"48案的部分也是學術研究的部分其中是針對說我們這個中研學者計劃呢這個計劃申請及核定的人數看起來都是下降的那中研院這邊有來說明說中研學者的這個計劃是屬於經營型的計劃會提供學者每年追根有800萬的這個五年期的研究經費所以是審查非常的嚴格那這個目標也不是定在說要提高這個通過率這個說法本身是接受也認同"},{"start":12493.732,"end":12500.694,"text":"所以這個案子呢我也不堅持要動我可以改成主決議那第三個案子是第56案56案的部分呢是針對我們的區域太難清這個技術因為區域太難清其實我們現在是非常"},{"start":12508.817,"end":12510.938,"text":"但是我希望你们有相关的书面报告可以详细的来说明以上"},{"start":12537.449,"end":12565.704,"text":"好 谢谢秀宝委员那我们最后一位请四要委员结束之后就委员不再发言请中央研究院说明第二幕我的提案有四案26 32 36三个案子都可以改组决议那我针对45案我还是要表达一下意见看你们的回答45案其实跟秀宝委员刚刚最后一个提案很多委员都关心中研学者计划我也看了你们的回复"},{"start":12566.684,"end":12590.044,"text":"但是我還是有需要再就教的地方他因為112年起開始徵求113年啟動所以你們的回答說一剛開始各大學對於申請的內容審議的標準還在熟悉所以一開始大家沒有那麼熟所以你們去做了一些跟大學端溝通啊擴大參與啊什麼什麼的這應該做才會"},{"start":12592.473,"end":12610.14,"text":"讓大家知道我有這個好的計畫大家來對不對可是你看從113年114年115年你們的申請人數反而是下降的並沒有因為你們說的一開始大家不熟悉越來越熟悉來的人就會多了所以數字是下降的從42人33人到115年是21人申請"},{"start":12614.341,"end":12634.237,"text":"我覺得這就 我就有問題了 我就有疑問了第二個 我當然理解你們的說明這個計畫不要看通過率不要過度的去看通過率因為你這是拔尖的計畫是很尖端的人才的計畫 我同意我沒有說來就百分之百八成的通過 沒有可是你們還是需要去說明一下"},{"start":12641.313,"end":12670.163,"text":"這個核定的人四個兩個三個每年這就是你們自己定定的一個拔尖的標準嗎要不然我省我站在國會監督的立場我就會看那我就是框這些預算給你我其實是希望大家有這個機會這是有落差的所以你們的解釋的兩個理由我聽懂你們在解釋什麼但我認為沒有make sense所以在這個案子我很重視我希望你們來回答"},{"start":12670.916,"end":12694.341,"text":"好就是申請端跟通過率然後我們來看看這個計畫是可以檢視它來好謝謝那我個人31案35案42案都已經改為主決議而且在剛才的質詢中我都已經有質詢過了我這邊就不再贅述那接下來請中研院一併做說明"},{"start":12695.339,"end":12719.526,"text":"我特別針對吳委員還有所有委員對中研學者的關心先表示謝謝那中研學者計畫就像剛剛委員提到的是八間型的計畫那給的資源也非常大所以我們在審議上當然非常的謹慎但是我們也了解在一些規定上可能就像剛剛院長提到的我們也要排除這些資源的重疊性所以我們也有去跟大學了解那我們也一路去改"},{"start":12720.626,"end":12745.966,"text":"滾動式的修正它一些的規定像比如說跟國科會計畫的重疊期我們從以前規定的不得超過七個月現在放寬到一年七個月了解它計畫銜接上面的困難那申請數逐年減少我們也在非常關注這件事情所以我們做了一些調整和溝通那目前在統計資料沒看到但是我們在執行中的我們現在在已經收案完成收案在省116年的計畫"},{"start":12748.528,"end":12773.59,"text":"2016年的各大學的推薦件數就已經回升到28件我們也會持續是沒有預期的量沒有第一年多跟第二年應該是差不多沒有第一年多主要就是剛剛提的第一年很多在試水溫的狀況不了解我們是這麼拔尖的要求這跟委員說明一下"},{"start":12776.363,"end":12793.765,"text":"通過率的部分事實上我們預設其實就像剛剛委員提到的我們並不這麼強調通過率而是我們強調的是送進來的這個計畫它的品質和它學術的簡單度必須要好好 那我最後回應一下因為我們是國會議員我們在監督預算"},{"start":12795.134,"end":12822.834,"text":"你們那就來年去檢討因為他掛的是中研學者被外界就提很高的注目跟期待包括我們國會監督你看多少委員提到這個計畫要檢討那你們就回去務實的檢視你通過率因為要為了就是要拔尖我不是服爛的然後申請率其實申請率我還是不滿意你剛剛講的啦這麼精進的計畫又去各大學溝通了三年到第四年"},{"start":12824.215,"end":12852.563,"text":"只有28我也覺得沒有那個好那你們就務實的去檢視你明年你現在編明年的概算你自己預算是不是就去檢討不要框那麼高否則你這個就是永無止境每年都會問同樣的問題你既然覺得你們回去檢討我只是覺得如果你沒有具體有效的方法增加他的申請數跟也真的能夠有效的拔尖其實通過率低不代表就是拔尖"},{"start":12853.303,"end":12868.372,"text":"我們是希望台灣的學員是整個上來對不對所以我還是有不是很理解我還有我想要督促的地方我可以改組決議可是我希望明年今年的預算你們要去反映在你的預算的思考上"},{"start":12869.272,"end":12892.546,"text":"要檢討就檢討 不要做這麼高的話也不要匡那麼多的錢真的 我說真的 要不然你這一個案子每年都會被問是 謝謝委員 不過我們今年的執行率就已經匯到90%了OK 好 沒關係 那還是有要檢視的部分好不好那我們會檢討 謝謝那我也改組決議 謝謝好 謝謝大家充分的討論那我想除了改組決議案的部分其他案是不是經費照列同意齁 那我來宣讀審查結果"},{"start":12898.564,"end":12908.448,"text":"第二幕一般学术研究及评议第二节学术研究与人才培育提案案号是第15案至第58案审查结果如下第15 16 17 18 21 26 29 30 31 32 33 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 45"},{"start":12932.759,"end":12953.172,"text":"46 48 49 51 54 55 57 58等案改為主決議其餘經費照列接著我們來處理第三幕自然及人文社會科學研究提案案號是第59至第70案因為只有12案請問是不是就不要分解我們整幕一併處理好 同意"},{"start":12955.796,"end":12962.392,"text":"好 那有來 秀寶委員 培育委員 請"},{"start":12964.229,"end":12990.118,"text":"好 謝謝主席在這個部分我有三個案子第一個案子是第60案除了是針對早上我也諮詢過的就是我們中研院地球科學研究所進行這個地殼變動的研究這個部分那我想我提到這個案子其實就是希望說給中研院一個警惕其實我們在研究這個相關的執行方面很多細節是實施要做到比較到位就是不管是申請依法的依法申請這個路段使用這個路權"},{"start":12991.198,"end":13011.347,"text":"或是說要公告或是設警語就標示出來還有就是說一些相關的私人土地我們要取得同意等等這樣子相關的程序其實都要去注意到那我想這有時候做研究是為了說整個我們的學術也是為了說我們能夠回饋給大眾我們一個更安全的一個"},{"start":13012.788,"end":13040.196,"text":"一個成果但是在這個過程裡面如果是很基本的這樣子一個對行政單位之間互相的尊重以及對民眾安全的要求都沒有做到的話我覺得這個是很不嚴謹的所以這個部分我本來提供的金額是300萬我沒有一定要動這麼多動30萬也可以可是我覺得一定要小小動微微動我希望給這個大家一個經驗一個警惕那這個部分就是書面之後就可以解凍了那第二個案子是第62案"},{"start":13042.057,"end":13060.029,"text":"六十二案的部分是關於也是早上我有講的就是這個AI的製作因為AI科技的應用性是非常非常的普遍但是很多這個AI的訊息它裡面是錯誤的或是會有一些誤導或甚至會影響欺騙到我們的民眾我們會需要說有比較新的這些技術來協助民眾做辨識"},{"start":13062.33,"end":13083.637,"text":"那我想既然是YouTube還是說Google它們對於相關的措施可以用這種做全面的這個偵測的技術做數位服務水印的這個方式那我也希望說我們中研院這邊是可以投入讓我們民眾可以透過這些相關程式的協助來辨識那這個部分我沒有很堅持我可以改成主決議第三個案子是第69案"},{"start":13084.777,"end":13104.011,"text":"六十九案的部分是覺得我們其實台灣社會一直以來就有一種好像是親人文的這種狀態那人文科學的核心其實在主要的貢獻也是在培養具有格局及領導力的人才因此其實人文領域的人才培訓是相當的重要"},{"start":13104.491,"end":13131.977,"text":"那这个部分呢中研院有说明啦就是说其实是有提供非常多的管道以及奖学金给人文领域的学者而且相关的这个通过率都是很高的所以这个案子呢本席也不坚持可以再主决议但是也希望说中研院真的可以持续的来依据人文领域方面的研究以上好 谢谢秀宝委员接着陈培宇委员我帮林一锦委员发言第六十一案可以改成主决议谢谢好 四要委员"},{"start":13136.122,"end":13164.559,"text":"两个案子其实都很重要请廖院长您也是督促虽然您就是即将功成身退六三就是AI那AI上次我在质询的时候我们都有提到我们的TIDE的系统很高兴Google来接触了OpenAI我们还在努力但是在我们整个评比的评测中心我们确实在国文科社会科没有太好"},{"start":13166.126,"end":13186.179,"text":"那我也會後你們有跟我說明其實我們像你們有告訴我很多我們的假設很多教科書的出版業者他並沒有釋出他的智慧財產權給你們用其實你們的解釋跟你們面臨的困境我跟培育委員我們上週就很快的召開了一場產官學員的公聽會"},{"start":13188.2,"end":13207.658,"text":"针对主权AI下我们如何能够去获得而且是有价的政府部门对公部门去搜取这些文本资讯我们相对容易重点是怎么跟台湾的文化内容的产业出版业甚至你影像声音档这个都需要有演绎出一套机制"},{"start":13208.579,"end":13231.487,"text":"让大家愿意加入但是它必须有价的但是我们那天跟出版业界我们就讨论了很多到底是怎么样用分润机制怎么样去建立这绝对是非常重要的一个事情那天只是蛮可惜的因为我们邀请了书发部邀请了经济部文化部就刚好缺了中研院我要跟中研院的伙伴们说明这件事情中研院不能缺席"},{"start":13232.347,"end":13256.365,"text":"因為TIDE我們都對TIDE實在是寄予厚望所以如何在這一套運作政府我們政治工作者要做的就是政府要建立制度在商用的部分怎麼讓資源可以進得來怎麼樣去訂定一套分潤的機制計價的方式這個是功課國家要一起面對中研院不能缺席這是我63案的提案的要旨我可以改組決議但是方向在這邊"},{"start":13257.886,"end":13275.427,"text":"那第二个68案就是请院长就很快的也做成记录了我们中研院组织法是可以成立不同的新的研究中心研究单位当研究台湾台湾研究成为世界的显学美国英国德国"},{"start":13276.548,"end":13291.631,"text":"日本韩国都在成立台湾研究专责机构的时候在台湾台大师大政大有中研院其实是不能缺席了所以是不是能够来推一个在中研院的台湾研究的"},{"start":13292.392,"end":13309.204,"text":"推動委員會我們需要一個這樣子的學門組織可以支持著有組織就有人力就有預算我們可以支持著台灣研究真的能夠做到位這也是跟剛剛那個態度其實也是相關我們需要這些內容我們才能夠跟中國的這種"},{"start":13310.734,"end":13325.544,"text":"來競爭所以這是不是可以正面回應一下我們的台灣研究中心是不是會往這個方向去催生我可能需要聽一下你們的所以六三改組決議那六八聽聽你們的說法OK"},{"start":13326.004,"end":13342.835,"text":"好 謝謝四小委員那我這裡是有一個第70案雖然已經改為主決議不過我還是在這邊再次的強調一下因為民族學跟人類學的研究常常會涉及到原住民族的文化傳統知識 記憶 語言部落歷史等等"},{"start":13343.235,"end":13362.645,"text":"的敏感資料所以我們希望除了研究倫理之外呢因為它會涉及到族群的尊嚴主體性還有集體權利保障所以我們是希望說在這個過去欠缺具備文化敏感度的制度設計希望中研院可以盤點現行民族學跟人類學的研究倫理規範去研究"},{"start":13365.886,"end":13383.896,"text":"一個符合原住民族權利保障及部落參與的這樣的一個審查的或治理的一個機制所以我雖然改為主決議就是希望能夠有一個書面報告好 那接下來請中研院針對剛才以上的提案委員的意見做一個統一的說明"},{"start":13386.624,"end":13407.001,"text":"大家好 我是資訊所所長廖鴻源剛好現在也是台德計畫本來我們的黃漢宣研究員他是負責模型跟優化當然是語言的部分這個部分就是說受限於預算跟資料收集的限制像台灣的政府目前所支持的台德計畫"},{"start":13407.762,"end":13432.128,"text":"他並沒有辦法擁有充足的經費跟算力支援大型商業公司像大型商業公司如OpenAI或者是Google這樣的公司跟他們匹敵然後在資料收集上因為台灣是一個自由民主的國家沒有辦法像中國的大公司那樣子他們可以毫無顧忌的不顧人權的去跟智慧財產權去收集大量資料"},{"start":13432.808,"end":13462.074,"text":"那我們如果能夠跟他們一樣我們就可以收集很多的資料然後達到很好的效果但是有一個很大的問題答案所隱含的價值或價值觀或者是正確性不見得符合自由民主法治社會所普遍認同的價值觀所以在這個狀況之下國科會現在前一陣子組委有拜託我一件事情希望我能夠組一個AI Team Taiwan"},{"start":13462.634,"end":13481.973,"text":"但是因為在這個狀況下我覺得速度太慢了因為現在要顧及百工百業的需求就是剛剛委員提到的應用的部分所以我現在就是希望能夠擺脫資料蒐集、經費跟算力的限制我這一期的台德我希望就直接納入多摩胎的功能"},{"start":13482.954,"end":13506.488,"text":"也就是讓聲音、影像、視訊等資料能夠經由台灣自主研發的多模態基礎模型協助發揮進一步樣態的大型語言模型的功能比如說我們中研院發展的YOLO V7、YOLO V9跟我的實驗室最近發展出來的Taiwan GBA這個GBA是代表General Behavior Analyzer"},{"start":13507.568,"end":13534.383,"text":"這個東西如果結合原來的台德語言模型反體制的模型的話它可以做非常好的功能比如說老人家像我的母親年紀已經很大了那她如果在床睡覺的時候如果晚上半夜她起來有任何的活動我們這樣的東西能夠藉著AGE端輕便的模型能夠判斷她的行為這樣的話我們就可以做到一個中游的平台以後可以support"},{"start":13535.143,"end":13562.853,"text":"下游的支付業者因為我們台灣的支付業者受限於硬體所以一直都沒有辦法做這樣的事情但是我們現在把它做到這個程度我也聚集了一些台灣的精英希望說在不必用到太多資源的狀況之下幫台灣的支付業者做這件事情用到中游讓他們能夠很容易的就可以做到下游支付業者做到下游讓百工百業都能夠受惠那國客會也委託國網提供30%的算力"},{"start":13564.754,"end":13580.534,"text":"來做這件事情我相信過不了多久我們這件事情就能夠落實那這是我們現在扮演的角色那希望委員能夠支持我們我們在做這個是額外的事情因為我們是用自己的經費在做好 表達我對廖所長的尊重我也站起來回答一下"},{"start":13581.235,"end":13603.654,"text":"就是說您講的當然要做也謝謝你們組成一個小組去突破現在的AI趕死隊衝鋒隊這樣子AI大進步隊但是我跟裴瑜比較關切的是怎麼樣幫助你們在內容的收集上有法律的有價值的提供因為我們要突破智慧財產權所以說你的那個什麼衝鋒隊趕死隊小組"},{"start":13606.096,"end":13618.804,"text":"是很重要但是眾議院可能需要再跟國科會述發布政府需要有一個針對民間的資料提供的授權的分認很多種可能"},{"start":13620.669,"end":13649.274,"text":"甚至政府哪個部門要做這件事情其實還沒有確定所以說這個其實是我的重點我來回答你這個問題因為那天我知道說這個台德計畫的整體預算是8億但是你也知道台灣的經費它是直接分到部會去因為我在金創當副執行長我很了解這個狀況很多錢下來它一大筆8億但是呢它就是散到各個部會去那各個部會在寫計畫的時候也是用這個名義就把它寫一寫所以這就是我說的"},{"start":13650.134,"end":13673.433,"text":"公共工程委员会在做的是全台湾的硬体的公共工程它会定定契约范本它会定定不同的建筑有不同的单价我们在AI时代来临对于内容的有价使用也需要有类似这样子的一个机构在处理内容软体的定价分润游戏规则包括那天很多的"},{"start":13674.153,"end":13698.744,"text":"出版業者他們都認為文化工作人員認為他需要有一個共同契約翻本我提醒這是我們非常重要的事情否則你那個敢子堆衝破內做了一堆結果內容民間端的資料進不來非常可惜好我們沒有要辯論做得很好我站起來只是Respect然後這件事情非常重要內容的部分現在有速發部所以我說的是內容所以你認為還是速發部來統籌因為他們拿最多錢"},{"start":13705.131,"end":13727.645,"text":"好了 主決議了好 該主決議了繼續說明是 關於委員剛剛提到的台灣研究中心這件事情那學術處代表回應一下就是事實上在院內各學組各研究所其實都有非常多以台灣為主體的研究不管從醫學 環境 氣候 社會對 那怎麼樣去做跨"},{"start":13728.345,"end":13745.556,"text":"跨学组的一个整合平台这个我们会把委员的这个建议就像刚刚院长在答询时候回复的一样我们会往这个方向去推动所以你们是先做一个平台但是不是会落实成一个新的组织是第二阶段在说了是吗对"},{"start":13746.116,"end":13770.954,"text":"因为组织法的修订涉及的问题比较多但是我希望不要放弃这样子的努力我们设平台会比较快而且比较努力好 平台一定要做但我的想象是另外的那个层次有组织才会有人力才会有预算才会有政策的支持才会让世界看见台湾研究在台湾 在中研院好 我该主决议了好 谢谢委员"},{"start":13772.236,"end":13793.568,"text":"我是地球所馬國鳳所長,那我想這邊回應陳委員兩位陳委員的提問就是苗栗矛盾這件事情我想確實我們有一些沒有做到完美的地方所以我們後續開始所有的工作會照一些新生法規或是人與人訓練做更密集的訓練跟盡量不會影響到A班民眾的一些生活"},{"start":13794.128,"end":13813.828,"text":"所以在這些經費使用上面希望委員這邊可以幫我們的解凍因為我們的經費真的有限而且出業外真的很花錢所以就算是三百萬、三十萬對我們來講也是蠻重要的經費所以希望委員可以支持然後同時我們絕對會在未來在很多工作上面絕對是照程序上面進行謝謝"},{"start":13817.999,"end":13844.666,"text":"谢谢你的说明其实我本来想说我想动30但是真的你也讲说其实每一笔经费都很珍贵我想说好吧那我就改组决议但是这个真的是我希望是一个你们是一个警惕因为这个是真的是会影响到民众的安全的所以以后像这样子相关的这个计划执行上一些细节还是都要注意到是是那我们对人员的训练在这边会更加的密切谢谢好那我也改组决议二十八案谢谢"},{"start":13846.325,"end":13852.954,"text":"好 那這樣子除了改成主決議的部分其餘我們是不是經費照列"},{"start":13854.073,"end":13867.482,"text":"好同意后那我来宣读审查结果第三幕自然及人文社会科学研究院提案案号第59案至第70案审查结果如下第59606162636667686970等案改为主角于其余经费照列补充宣告第"},{"start":13883.499,"end":13900.688,"text":"五十二五十六改為主決議接著我們來處理第四幕南部院區提案號是第七十一案至第八十案有沒有提案委員要來做說明來蔡春籌委員"},{"start":13911.207,"end":13912.929,"text":"我針對我提出的案,七十三案再做個說明,那個我想南部的院區應該不只是有違印,而是要讓那個違印"},{"start":13926.743,"end":13929.766,"text":"維英的淨匯對應到實際的一個研究量能還有南部研究的一個聚落發展所以我請中研院能夠針對四個一 整體的一個空間使用力87%的如何來計算"},{"start":13946.24,"end":13950.904,"text":"第二是研究團隊進駐人員數然後實驗單元還有的一個情形跟空間的釋出機率為何第三是餐廳的那個標誌聯繫會標以後第三是招資又如何提高誘因若未順利標出適合有替代的一個服務的規劃四就是為應經費如何能夠具體對應"},{"start":13975.58,"end":13991.854,"text":"科研量能還有人才的一個沿南及南部合作的一個網絡能夠在兩個月內能夠提出書面報告那我們就改成主結議那第74項也可以改成主結議77項"},{"start":13998.707,"end":14013.51,"text":"77項也是我們也希望在一個月內像立法院還有本辦能夠提出報告就是有關於工程的進度 經費的控管還有顧驗的一個計價 設備設置的一個期程風險的一個控管還有117年營運的準備提出來做報告 我也改成主決議"},{"start":14027.045,"end":14034.215,"text":"以上報告好 謝謝蔡春筹委員還有沒有其他委員76案改組決議好 謝謝好 46案改組決議76案改組決議好 那中研院這邊請做說明嗎不用了"},{"start":14043.973,"end":14066.456,"text":"好 那我們就經費照列好 那我來宣讀一下審查結果第四幕南部縣區提案案號第七十一案至第八十案審查結果如下第七十一 七十二 七十三 七十四 七十六 七十七 八十等案改為主決議 其餘經費照列補充宣告"},{"start":14068.134,"end":14082.228,"text":"第28案改組決議接著我們來處理第5幕非營業特種基金提案案號是第81案至第86案有沒有提案委員要做說明來吳思瑤委員吳思瑤85案改組決議他們有來說明了謝謝好 謝謝還有沒有好 那其餘經費照列嗎"},{"start":14091.564,"end":14100.711,"text":"好我來宣讀審查結果第五目非營業特種基金提案案號第81至第86案審查結果如下第83、84、85、86、88、91等案改為主決議其餘經費照列對怎麼會出現91"},{"start":14125.247,"end":14154.005,"text":"好那我再重新宣讀一次第五幕非營業特種基金提案案號第八十一至第八十六案審查結果如下第八十三、八十四、八十五、八十六等案改為主決議其餘經費照列接著我們來處理第六幕一般建築及設備提案案號是第八十七案至第九十二案有沒有提案委員要做說明吳思堯委員八十七案那個那個崗委要"},{"start":14155.972,"end":14178.118,"text":"勞煩你們好不容易謝謝大家我們的這個院區景觀計畫可以來做那個西入口的規劃那我只是比較擔心我們的預算編列都比較保守所以原物料的上漲缺工都會讓我們的成本增高所以你就標不出去很難做那你們這個案子是因為確實還是錢不夠嗎"},{"start":14181.192,"end":14206.394,"text":"你們有請工程會怎麼樣來幫忙嗎我的提醒是以後只要是針對你們這個整個院區景觀的計畫在編列預算上都要更更更不要受限自己編那種最基本的單價最低單價那這樣子你不會有好的工程你也不會有好的招標的成果好嗎我提醒這件事情您簡單說明一下"},{"start":14206.994,"end":14231.129,"text":"是謝謝委員那這個案子我們編了1.5億已經送到行政院爭取公共建設的經費那編類的時候除了原來的一些工程單價以外有仿試價以外我們有考慮到物調費準備金工程管理費都有一個百分比進去然後希望說未來不要就像發生像委員所說的這個狀況好那希望招標順利那改組決議87謝謝"},{"start":14235.535,"end":14235.975,"text":"蔡春秋委員我針對92案做個說明可以"},{"start":14243.948,"end":14248.491,"text":"要求中研院在兩個月提出書面報告有關於計劃核定的情形使走動的建物清澈耐震評估的結果還有補強優先順序規劃設計跟施工期程以及施工期間安全維持的一個措施能夠在兩個月內提出書面報告我改主決議"},{"start":14271.291,"end":14285.557,"text":"好 謝謝蔡順從委員還有沒有其他委員好 鍾研宇有沒有說明好 沒有齁跟四邀委員補充報告一下我們剛剛的那個查的狀況就是我們跟Google對對對 因為想說利用這個機會跟"},{"start":14289.219,"end":14303.95,"text":"我先来宣告第六幕第六幕一般建筑及设备提案案靠第87案至第96案审查结果如下第87、88、91、92等案改为主决议其余经费照列补充宣告第一幕一般行政的第13案撤案"},{"start":14316.363,"end":14330.828,"text":"第十四案保留暫時保留啦等一下再來討論好那現在是要說明第十四案嗎因為我們有第十案跟第十四案都是暫時保留是那好好好不在齁"},{"start":14342.424,"end":14348.489,"text":"好第五項中央研究院通案部分提案案號第十案業務費向下約用人員酬金審查結果如下經費照列"},{"start":14370.931,"end":14393.534,"text":"來第14案請做說明第14案的部分那我們剛剛已經確認有三件事情跟委員回報第一個就是說我們的聲明有上去了第二件事情派出所我們的部分先電話回報然後我們現在人員是直接到現場去跟他報那當然還是跟剛剛說明的一樣因為派出所他需要我們提供的一些資料我們仍然必須要在後補"},{"start":14394.555,"end":14419.153,"text":"第三件事情是我們跟Google那邊的回報我們也跟他說了他們需要一些內部的時間來處理才能夠下架這個是在今天之前就已經有做了因為他們需要一些時間的lag造成但是我們現在點進去看就是說Search的頁面上雖然有但點進去看已經沒有了已經沒有相關的點進去看就是大撈城我剛才在點"},{"start":14420.853,"end":14447.859,"text":"對就他在搜尋的頁面如果用大撈家加上中研院這六個字會確實會找到大撈家上面會有中研院的這個LOGO我改組決議但是希望從這個個案讓我們有一個建立未來這種案子的SOP因為有一就有二他絕對會越來越多會食髓知味的所以魔高一尺道要高一丈對我們也跟派出所希望能夠建立起這樣一個默契"},{"start":14452.174,"end":14473.133,"text":"法制作業的內部我們本來就有相關的程序了謝謝好先讀審查結果第一幕一般行政體案案號第十一案至第十四案審查結果如下第十三案撤案第十一第十二第十四案改為主決議其餘經費照列好我們現在來處理主決議的部分"},{"start":14480.677,"end":14494.769,"text":"好接著我們來處理第一款第五項中央研究院之主決議提案案號第93案至第120案好主決議部分有其他意見嗎沒有都沒有意見那"},{"start":14499.423,"end":14509.651,"text":"93 94案 中研院 遵照辦理95 96案 修正文字的部分對 修正文字 照修正通過 對第97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104案 中研院的意見遵照辦理 遵照辦理照案通過第105案 修正文字的部分"},{"start":14526.994,"end":14538.699,"text":"對 修正文字後修正通過106案遵照辦理好 照案通過107案修正文字遵照辦理修正通過108到115案遵照辦理好 照案通過116 117案修正文字的部分修正後通過修正通過118到120案"},{"start":14556.092,"end":14558.073,"text":"證照辦理好 照案通過好 來宣讀審查結果主決議提案案號第93案至第120案審查結果如下93至94 97至104 106 108至115118"},{"start":14580.151,"end":14590.44,"text":"等案照案通過第九十五至九十六一百零五一百零七一百一十六一百一十七等案修正通過"},{"start":14594.685,"end":14615.409,"text":"還有118至120案照案通過好第一款第五項中央研究院全案處理完畢繼續來處理中央研究院科學研究基金基金來源沒有提案所以預算照列接著來處理基金用途基金用途提案數只有19案而且呢"},{"start":14622.352,"end":14636.721,"text":"有四案已經改為主決議請問是不是可以一併處理好 謝謝現在我們就來處理基金用途提案案號第一案至第十九案有沒有提案委員要做說明來 蔡春籌委員請這個是從第一案到第十九第一到十九"},{"start":14651.222,"end":14658.466,"text":"我們第二案改成主決議那十二案我們希望能夠針對出國成果報告"},{"start":14664.85,"end":14689.382,"text":"公開及後續合作效益可被檢驗然後我們要求兩個頁內能夠提出近三年科研基金還有國外理會執行的一個執行情形出國報告公開情形還有成果的一個追蹤方式及後續合作成果的一個書面報告那就改主決議"},{"start":14690.402,"end":14690.662,"text":"好 謝謝那第十七案我們也"},{"start":14700.539,"end":14722.845,"text":"我們希望能夠在量子科技還有粉青發電農業生技還有生醫研區都是重要的一個方向但方向要正確不代表預算不必檢驗所以我們要求能夠做一些書面報告譬如說"},{"start":14725.246,"end":14739.555,"text":"清澈還有金額執行力還有成果的指標改善期程及負責單位等能夠檢核內容在兩個月內能夠提出報告那我們就改成主結以上謝謝"},{"start":14741.736,"end":14763.952,"text":"那其餘委員沒有意見沒有好那中研院沒有任何說明沒有好謝謝我就來宣讀審查結果基金用途提案案號第一案至第十九案審查結果如下第二案四五八九十一十二十三十四十六十七等案改為主決議"},{"start":14766.554,"end":14788.892,"text":"還有第七好 增加第七案改為主決議其餘經費照列我們繼續處理中央研究院科學研究基金主決議提案號是第20案有沒有提案委員要做說明好 沒有齁好 那我們就經費"},{"start":14794.32,"end":14811.732,"text":"中央研究院科學研究基金主決議提案案號是第20案審查結果如下照案通過中央研究院科學研究基金全案處理完畢"},{"start":14815.737,"end":14842.822,"text":"好 審查結果免於重複宣讀在不影響文藝前提下授權議事人員依115年度中央政府總預算案審查報告與黨團協商之範例整理列入記錄關於本日會議作如下決議第一115年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案中央研究院科學研究基金附屬單位預算案均已審查完均"},{"start":14845.288,"end":14866.522,"text":"對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關盡速以書面答覆大家眼睛都在看我報告委員會今日議程處理完畢因為今天是很有意義值得紀念的一天我們是不是等一下留下來做一個大合照好 現在散會"},{"start":14872.949,"end":14874.15,"text":"大家一起来啊"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}