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改列為2476萬元"},{"start":1844.07,"end":1847.19,"text":"第102項增列169萬6千元"},{"start":1847.19,"end":1849.59,"text":"改列為455萬8千元"},{"start":1849.59,"end":1852.51,"text":"第103項至105項軍照列"},{"start":1852.51,"end":1855.07,"text":"第106項增列2萬元"},{"start":1855.11,"end":1856.79,"text":"改列為6萬4千元"},{"start":1856.79,"end":1859.87,"text":"第107項增列90萬元"},{"start":1859.87,"end":1862.31,"text":"改列為371萬5千元"},{"start":1862.31,"end":1864.6299999999999,"text":"第7款其他收入第100項"},{"start":1864.6299999999999,"end":1866.1499999999999,"text":"增列23億元"},{"start":1866.1499999999999,"end":1870.1499999999999,"text":"改列為30億3千3百19萬9千元"},{"start":1870.1499999999999,"end":1872.87,"text":"第101項至106項軍照列"},{"start":1873.52,"end":1876.72,"text":"稅出部分第11款教育部主管第一項"},{"start":1876.72,"end":1878.24,"text":"除第2幕第3節"},{"start":1878.24,"end":1879.8,"text":"第7幕第1節"},{"start":1879.8,"end":1881.76,"text":"第10幕第2節"},{"start":1881.76,"end":1884.84,"text":"軍照列是所屬非營業特種基金"},{"start":1884.84,"end":1887.72,"text":"審議確定在行條正外取予軍照列"},{"start":1887.72,"end":1891,"text":"本項通過決議137項"},{"start":1891,"end":1891.88,"text":"第2項"},{"start":1892.56,"end":1894.16,"text":"除第2幕第2節"},{"start":1894.16,"end":1895.6,"text":"第3幕第1節"},{"start":1895.6,"end":1899.2,"text":"軍戰照列是所屬非營業特種基金"},{"start":1899.2,"end":1901.72,"text":"審議確定在行條正外取予軍照列"},{"start":1901.72,"end":1904.8,"text":"本項通過決議80項"},{"start":1904.8,"end":1908.32,"text":"第3項照列本項通過決議17項"},{"start":1908.32,"end":1911.8,"text":"第4項照列本項通過決議3項"},{"start":1911.8,"end":1914.68,"text":"第5項照列本項通過決議2項"},{"start":1914.68,"end":1917.6,"text":"第6項照列本項通過決議1項"},{"start":1917.6,"end":1920.6399999999999,"text":"第7項照列本項通過決議1項"},{"start":1920.68,"end":1924.8400000000001,"text":"第27款直轄市級縣市政府第4項照列"},{"start":1924.8400000000001,"end":1928.2800000000002,"text":"2.2015年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管"},{"start":1928.2800000000002,"end":1930.72,"text":"附屬單位預算案均審查完均"},{"start":1930.72,"end":1931.92,"text":"審查結果如下"},{"start":1931.92,"end":1935.72,"text":"1.47所國立大學校園校務基金照案通過"},{"start":1935.72,"end":1937.0800000000002,"text":"國立師範大學"},{"start":1937.0800000000002,"end":1938.3200000000002,"text":"彰化師範大學"},{"start":1938.3200000000002,"end":1941.5200000000002,"text":"臺北教育大學校務基金均通過決議1項"},{"start":1943.66,"end":1945.42,"text":"國立臺灣大學成功大學"},{"start":1945.42,"end":1948.02,"text":"陽明交通大學附設意願作業基金"},{"start":1948.02,"end":1951.22,"text":"教育部所屬機構作業基金"},{"start":1952.3999999999999,"end":1955.3999999999999,"text":"高級中等學校校務基金學產基金"},{"start":1955.3999999999999,"end":1959.9599999999998,"text":"勢力高級中等以上學校退場基金均照案通過"},{"start":1959.9599999999998,"end":1964.12,"text":"3.對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料或為己答覆部分"},{"start":1964.12,"end":1966.6,"text":"請相關機關技術以順便答覆"},{"start":1966.6,"end":1968.7199999999998,"text":"4.在不影響文藝前提下"},{"start":1968.7199999999998,"end":1972.84,"text":"授權一事人員1.2015年度中央政府總預算案審查報告"},{"start":1972.84,"end":1974.8,"text":"與黨團協商之範例整理"},{"start":1974.8,"end":1978.12,"text":"5.2015年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部及"},{"start":1978.12,"end":1980.8,"text":"所屬單位預算直轄市級縣市政府"},{"start":1980.8,"end":1984.04,"text":"一般性補助款教育部主管部分預算案"},{"start":1984.71,"end":1988.51,"text":"教育部主管附屬單位預算案全部審查完畢"},{"start":1988.51,"end":1990.3500000000001,"text":"通過臨時提案一項"},{"start":1990.3500000000001,"end":1993.15,"text":"5.25討論事項審查"},{"start":1993.15,"end":1996.1100000000001,"text":"15年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院"},{"start":1996.1100000000001,"end":1998.75,"text":"單位預算案等兩案決議"},{"start":1998.75,"end":2000.27,"text":"1.報告及巡邏完畢"},{"start":2000.27,"end":2003.5900000000001,"text":"2.15年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院"},{"start":2003.5900000000001,"end":2005.39,"text":"單位預算案審查完畢"},{"start":2005.39,"end":2006.83,"text":"審查結果如下"},{"start":2006.83,"end":2009.75,"text":"稅主部分第二款罰款及賠償收入"},{"start":2009.75,"end":2013.79,"text":"第四項照類第四款財產收入第五項增類"},{"start":2013.87,"end":2016.47,"text":"100萬元改類為655萬2000元"},{"start":2016.47,"end":2018.9099999999999,"text":"第七款其他收入第五項照類"},{"start":2018.9099999999999,"end":2021.95,"text":"稅出部分第一款總行務主管第五項"},{"start":2021.95,"end":2023.55,"text":"除第五幕第一節"},{"start":2023.55,"end":2026.71,"text":"暫照類是所屬非營業特種基金"},{"start":2026.71,"end":2029.59,"text":"確定再行調整外期與均照類"},{"start":2029.59,"end":2032.19,"text":"本項通過決議93項"},{"start":2034.0600000000002,"end":2037.6200000000001,"text":"1.15年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院"},{"start":2037.6200000000001,"end":2040.46,"text":"科學研究基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":2040.46,"end":2042.46,"text":"審查完畢審查結果如下"},{"start":2043.78,"end":2048.78,"text":"業務計畫應依據基金來源及用途審查結果隨同調整"},{"start":2048.78,"end":2052.18,"text":"基金來源基金用途分期短促均照類"},{"start":2053.25,"end":2054.25,"text":"結交公布物類數"},{"start":2054.25,"end":2055.25,"text":"腐敗預算"},{"start":2055.25,"end":2057.4500000000003,"text":"固定資產建設改良擴充1億"},{"start":2057.4500000000003,"end":2059.8500000000004,"text":"零933萬7000元照類"},{"start":2060.71,"end":2062.11,"text":"通過決議13項"},{"start":2063.73,"end":2067.5299999999997,"text":"對委員執行要求提供相關資料或未及答复部分"},{"start":2067.5299999999997,"end":2069.73,"text":"請相關機關建樹與書面答复"},{"start":2069.73,"end":2072.33,"text":"5.在不影響文藝前提下"},{"start":2072.33,"end":2075.5299999999997,"text":"授權醫事人員依1.15年度中央政府總預算案"},{"start":2075.5299999999997,"end":2078.13,"text":"審查報告與黨團協商自判率整理"},{"start":2078.13,"end":2082.93,"text":"6.1.15年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案"},{"start":2082.93,"end":2086.5299999999997,"text":"及中央研究院科學研究基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":2086.5299999999997,"end":2087.93,"text":"全部審查完畢"},{"start":2091.17,"end":2094.77,"text":"由於在場委員未達一絕人數三人"},{"start":2094.77,"end":2097.17,"text":"醫事錄稍後再行確定"},{"start":2098.46,"end":2101.46,"text":"本次會議議程是審查"},{"start":2101.46,"end":2105.66,"text":"1.1.15年度中央政府總預算案"},{"start":2105.66,"end":2109.86,"text":"有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預算案"},{"start":2109.86,"end":2115.26,"text":"及核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":2115.26,"end":2118.86,"text":"2.1.15年度行政法人"},{"start":2118.86,"end":2122.06,"text":"國家原子能科技研究院預算案"},{"start":2122.95,"end":2123.75,"text":"首先"},{"start":2125.09,"end":2127.69,"text":"我們來介紹在場的委員"},{"start":2127.69,"end":2129.69,"text":"有陳培宇委員"},{"start":2132.18,"end":2132.7799999999997,"text":"辛苦了"},{"start":2133.65,"end":2136.65,"text":"接著介紹與會的官員"},{"start":2136.65,"end":2141.85,"text":"首先介紹核能安全委員會陳明貞主任委員"},{"start":2144.94,"end":2147.14,"text":"張鑫副主任委員"},{"start":2149.83,"end":2153.23,"text":"行政院主計總書公務預算處"},{"start":2153.23,"end":2155.23,"text":"王淺凱專門委員"},{"start":2157.14,"end":2160.54,"text":"其餘列席的機關代表請參閱名單"},{"start":2160.54,"end":2164.74,"text":"不在主一介紹並列入公報紀錄"},{"start":2164.74,"end":2166.74,"text":"現在進行報告"},{"start":2167.51,"end":2171.71,"text":"邀請核能安全委員會陳明貞主委報告"},{"start":2171.71,"end":2173.71,"text":"時間是6分鐘"},{"start":2186.33,"end":2187.13,"text":"主席"},{"start":2187.13,"end":2189.13,"text":"各位委員女士先生大家好"},{"start":2189.55,"end":2191.9500000000003,"text":"今天很榮幸代表核能安全委員會"},{"start":2191.9500000000003,"end":2193.75,"text":"並接同各單位主管"},{"start":2193.75,"end":2196.75,"text":"向大院進行1.15年度預算報告"},{"start":2196.75,"end":2201.75,"text":"首先向大院委員對本會各項工作的支持及指教"},{"start":2201.75,"end":2204.15,"text":"致向敬意及謝誠"},{"start":2204.81,"end":2210.41,"text":"核能安全委員會持續提升國內原子能安全管制及科技發展"},{"start":2210.41,"end":2212.81,"text":"並進行強化原子能安全管制"},{"start":2212.81,"end":2214.21,"text":"確保公共安全"},{"start":2214.21,"end":2216.21,"text":"妥善運用原子能技術"},{"start":2216.21,"end":2217.61,"text":"增進社會服務"},{"start":2217.61,"end":2219.61,"text":"發展次世代能源技術"},{"start":2219.61,"end":2222.61,"text":"落實近年永續三大實質目標"},{"start":2223.74,"end":2224.24,"text":"首先"},{"start":2224.92,"end":2227.32,"text":"報告公務預算執行及編制"},{"start":2228.1,"end":2231.7,"text":"核安會已經妥善運用114年預算"},{"start":2231.7,"end":2236.7,"text":"完成核油廠部分設施備拆除作業審查及現場查證"},{"start":2236.7,"end":2241.1,"text":"核博核油廠室外干涉主存設備運轉執照"},{"start":2241.77,"end":2245.97,"text":"辦理日本寒川廢水排放跨部會應用作業"},{"start":2245.97,"end":2248.37,"text":"醫療部屏保"},{"start":2248.97,"end":2251.5699999999997,"text":"原子能及科技合作研究"},{"start":2251.5699999999997,"end":2255.1699999999996,"text":"科普推廣及新世代核能技術研究等重要成果"},{"start":2256.13,"end":2262.13,"text":"核安會及所屬115年度稅出編列4216286萬"},{"start":2262.81,"end":2263.5099999999998,"text":"5000元"},{"start":2263.5099999999998,"end":2268.0099999999998,"text":"其中補助行政法人國家原子能科技研究院"},{"start":2268.0099999999998,"end":2271.21,"text":"31984萬2000元"},{"start":2271.21,"end":2275.81,"text":"重點工作包含確保核能及放射性物料安全管制"},{"start":2275.81,"end":2277.81,"text":"強化服務安管制能量"},{"start":2277.81,"end":2280.41,"text":"精進福災緊急應變準備"},{"start":2280.41,"end":2282.21,"text":"深化國際交流合作"},{"start":2282.21,"end":2285.41,"text":"創新原子能科技應用及跨域整合等"},{"start":2286.3,"end":2287.9,"text":"所屬偵測中心"},{"start":2287.9,"end":2291.3,"text":"重點工作包括執行全國環境福社監測作業"},{"start":2291.3,"end":2294.1000000000004,"text":"強化遙射技術及智慧監測能力"},{"start":2294.1000000000004,"end":2298.5,"text":"並進行環境福社檢測分析"},{"start":2299.26,"end":2299.96,"text":"繼續"},{"start":2301.74,"end":2302.54,"text":"稅入部分"},{"start":2302.54,"end":2306.74,"text":"115年度編列1152萬2000元"},{"start":2306.74,"end":2311.24,"text":"較前一年度減少3999萬9000元"},{"start":2311.24,"end":2313.04,"text":"執照系減少核一二廠"},{"start":2313.04,"end":2316.34,"text":"運過核子燃料幹事主存設施"},{"start":2316.34,"end":2318.14,"text":"興建執照申請案"},{"start":2318.14,"end":2321.14,"text":"審查費及核子反應器設施"},{"start":2321.14,"end":2323.14,"text":"核子燃料及運轉檢查收入"},{"start":2324.42,"end":2325.82,"text":"稅出部分"},{"start":2325.82,"end":2327.62,"text":"115年度編列"},{"start":2327.62,"end":2331.62,"text":"426286萬5000元"},{"start":2331.62,"end":2337.62,"text":"較2014年度增加46480萬2000元"},{"start":2337.62,"end":2342.2200000000003,"text":"主要系增列捐助行政法人營醫院發展"},{"start":2342.2200000000003,"end":2345.42,"text":"包括國家藥物韌性整備計畫"},{"start":2345.42,"end":2346.42,"text":"小型模組化"},{"start":2346.42,"end":2348.42,"text":"SMR反應器研究計畫"},{"start":2348.42,"end":2351.42,"text":"鑽鈴排放計畫等4.37億元"},{"start":2351.42,"end":2353.42,"text":"及檢驗70mEV"},{"start":2353.42,"end":2355.42,"text":"回旋加速起建置計畫"},{"start":2355.42,"end":2359.42,"text":"老舊設施台灣費等經費"},{"start":2361.53,"end":2365.53,"text":"以稅出計畫別來看"},{"start":2365.53,"end":2369.53,"text":"人事及基本維持45%"},{"start":2369.53,"end":2372.53,"text":"相較2014年度減少0.19億元"},{"start":2372.53,"end":2375.53,"text":"社花計畫增加3.19億元"},{"start":2375.53,"end":2379.53,"text":"主要是新增國家藥物韌性整備計畫"},{"start":2379.53,"end":2385.53,"text":"而科技及工建計畫支出增加1.63億元"},{"start":2385.53,"end":2388.53,"text":"主要增加SMR研究計畫"},{"start":2388.53,"end":2390.53,"text":"鑽鈴排放計畫等"},{"start":2390.5,"end":2391,"text":"CJ"},{"start":2391.55,"end":2393.55,"text":"包括原子事故緊急應變基因心"},{"start":2393.55,"end":2395.55,"text":"2014年度成果之一"},{"start":2395.55,"end":2396.55,"text":"2015年度"},{"start":2398.42,"end":2400.42,"text":"2014年度完成"},{"start":2400.42,"end":2402.42,"text":"河安31號演技"},{"start":2402.42,"end":2404.42,"text":"納入無人機入侵"},{"start":2405.17,"end":2407.17,"text":"入侵遷就因應"},{"start":2407.17,"end":2410.17,"text":"除役電廠及用過燃料池"},{"start":2410.17,"end":2412.17,"text":"世界儲應儲"},{"start":2412.17,"end":2416.17,"text":"古早情境及防災設施"},{"start":2416.17,"end":2420.17,"text":"自助互助儲應作業"},{"start":2420.17,"end":2423.17,"text":"並演練陸海公寓"},{"start":2424.05,"end":2426.05,"text":"環境偵測作業"},{"start":2426.05,"end":2428.05,"text":"計約4500人參與"},{"start":2430.5,"end":2433.5,"text":"另外一半也主理書生演練"},{"start":2433.5,"end":2439.5,"text":"防災研究會新北市核電廠緊急應變區計畫加防"},{"start":2439.5,"end":2445.5,"text":"並製作河安防護掠地及有生板核子事故應變指南等多元溝通宣傳"},{"start":2446.09,"end":2453.09,"text":"2015年度核子事故緊急應變基金預算來源主要為緊急應變準備收入及利息收入"},{"start":2453.09,"end":2457.09,"text":"共計1億2475萬5千元"},{"start":2457.09,"end":2463.09,"text":"較去年因資集增加283萬3000元"},{"start":2464.75,"end":2466.75,"text":"基金用途部分"},{"start":2466.75,"end":2470.75,"text":"2015年度為9794萬3000元"},{"start":2470.75,"end":2472.75,"text":"較去年減低63萬4000元"},{"start":2472.75,"end":2475.75,"text":"主要是減少中央災害應變計畫"},{"start":2475.75,"end":2478.75,"text":"國內旅費資源計畫"},{"start":2478.75,"end":2480.75,"text":"購置車輛消除站"},{"start":2480.75,"end":2483.75,"text":"新市消除水面等經費"},{"start":2484.01,"end":2490.01,"text":"並增加核子事故應變階段服務設數據圖像化整合系統維護等經費"},{"start":2490.01,"end":2492.01,"text":"而以計畫比例來看"},{"start":2492.01,"end":2495.01,"text":"中央災害應變佔45%"},{"start":2495.01,"end":2500.01,"text":"其他是地方災害應變及服務設計各佔30%及15%"},{"start":2500.01,"end":2504.01,"text":"其餘為行政管理支援計有共10%"},{"start":2504.01,"end":2509.01,"text":"最後在行政法人國家原則科技研究院收支畢業編列行政"},{"start":2510.74,"end":2512.74,"text":"國家原則科技研究院為"},{"start":2512.74,"end":2514.74,"text":"核安會監督制行政法人"},{"start":2514.74,"end":2521.74,"text":"重點工作包括核能與核能科技服飾應用及科技及新能源技術發展"},{"start":2523.88,"end":2528.88,"text":"科技研究重點包括進行SMR研究開發全球首任"},{"start":2529.54,"end":2532.54,"text":"多類客家有效評估乾功能"},{"start":2532.54,"end":2538.54,"text":"進行核電廠被動式安全機制研究與能源基礎設備安全技術發展"},{"start":2538.54,"end":2544.54,"text":"生物科技服飾應用及參與衛福部及國家藥物認證準備計劃"},{"start":2544.54,"end":2553.54,"text":"並設置70MV中型核電加速器進行海域生物測試及放射性物質傳輸安全評估研究"},{"start":2553.54,"end":2557.54,"text":"與跨部會合作進行多項與經營排放相關計劃"},{"start":2557.54,"end":2560.54,"text":"在2015年度收入也直輸部分"},{"start":2560.54,"end":2563.54,"text":"收入編列31億7557萬1000元"},{"start":2563.54,"end":2567.54,"text":"較上年度增列3億3994萬4000元"},{"start":2567.54,"end":2572.54,"text":"主要是增列執行政府補助營業發展收入計劃"},{"start":2572.54,"end":2576.54,"text":"直輸編列31億7394萬8000元"},{"start":2576.54,"end":2580.54,"text":"較上年度增列3億98837萬7000元"},{"start":2580.54,"end":2583.54,"text":"主要是增列業務費及服務成本"},{"start":2583.54,"end":2586.54,"text":"收支三抵後剩餘1623萬3000元"},{"start":2588.56,"end":2592.56,"text":"核安徽為國內核能輻射與放射性物料安全管制機關"},{"start":2592.56,"end":2597.56,"text":"將秉持專業技術及依法嚴格執行各項管制工作"},{"start":2597.56,"end":2600.56,"text":"確保各項原子能民生應用安全"},{"start":2600.56,"end":2604.56,"text":"進行各位委員對核安徽的預算會大於支持與協助"},{"start":2604.56,"end":2605.56,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2605.56,"end":2607.56,"text":"好 謝謝陳主委的報告"},{"start":2607.56,"end":2609.56,"text":"機關代表報告完畢"},{"start":2609.56,"end":2614.56,"text":"相關數面資料請各位參閱並列入公報記錄"},{"start":2615.06,"end":2618.06,"text":"由於議事錄之前已經宣讀完畢"},{"start":2618.06,"end":2619.06,"text":"尚未確定"},{"start":2619.06,"end":2622.06,"text":"現在先來確定議事錄"},{"start":2622.06,"end":2623.06,"text":"請問各位委員"},{"start":2623.06,"end":2626.06,"text":"上次會議議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏"},{"start":2627.17,"end":2628.17,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":2628.59,"end":2630.59,"text":"無錯誤或遺漏議事錄確定"},{"start":2634.4,"end":2637.4,"text":"我們現在開始進行詢答"},{"start":2637.4,"end":2640.4,"text":"每位出席委員質詢六分鐘"},{"start":2640.4,"end":2643.4,"text":"列席委員執行時間為四分鐘"},{"start":2643.4,"end":2645.4,"text":"均不再延長"},{"start":2645.4,"end":2649.4,"text":"發言登記截止時間為上午十點三十分"},{"start":2649.4,"end":2651.4,"text":"委員如有臨時提案"},{"start":2651.4,"end":2654.4,"text":"請於上午十點三十分前提出"},{"start":2654.4,"end":2658.4,"text":"並於預算審查完畢後再行處理"},{"start":2658.4,"end":2659.4,"text":"處理提案時"},{"start":2659.4,"end":2662.4,"text":"若提案委員及連署委員均不在場"},{"start":2662.4,"end":2664.4,"text":"原例不予處理"},{"start":2664.4,"end":2669.4,"text":"首先請登記第一位柯志恩委員詢答"},{"start":2673.95,"end":2674.95,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":2675.82,"end":2677.82,"text":"因為那個高鐵訊號異常數"},{"start":2677.82,"end":2679.82,"text":"我們有非常多的委員沒有辦法趕上"},{"start":2679.82,"end":2683.82,"text":"所以委員可能稍微可能要特別十點半"},{"start":2683.82,"end":2685.82,"text":"登記截止可能要稍微寬容一下"},{"start":2685.82,"end":2687.82,"text":"因為有很多人跟我反映"},{"start":2687.82,"end":2688.82,"text":"他們需要更長的時間"},{"start":2688.82,"end":2691.82,"text":"因為現在在台中的還沒發動 好不好"},{"start":2691.82,"end":2693.82,"text":"有接到這樣的訊息"},{"start":2693.82,"end":2695.82,"text":"所以說那個最後這個截止的時間"},{"start":2695.82,"end":2696.82,"text":"可能不是十點半"},{"start":2696.82,"end":2698.82,"text":"因為今天正是突發狀況"},{"start":2698.82,"end":2700.82,"text":"對 所以不能歸責於委員"},{"start":2700.82,"end":2702.82,"text":"是 所以我們會等他們來"},{"start":2702.82,"end":2703.82,"text":"OK 好 謝謝"},{"start":2703.82,"end":2705.82,"text":"感謝 好 我們是不是請我們的主委"},{"start":2714.17,"end":2717.17,"text":"主委好 我很少在一個會期當中"},{"start":2717.17,"end":2718.17,"text":"看主委這麼多次"},{"start":2718.17,"end":2721.17,"text":"不過今天是我們的這個預算"},{"start":2721.17,"end":2722.17,"text":"非看你不可"},{"start":2722.17,"end":2723.17,"text":"來 我們來看一下"},{"start":2723.17,"end":2724.17,"text":"從你剛所報告的"},{"start":2724.17,"end":2728.17,"text":"我們核安會每年都會在核物料管制業務當中"},{"start":2728.17,"end":2729.17,"text":"編列的一部預算 對不對"},{"start":2729.17,"end":2734.17,"text":"主要是要辦理有關於這個放射性廢棄物的"},{"start":2734.17,"end":2736.17,"text":"最周儲存的計劃跟應變"},{"start":2736.17,"end":2739.17,"text":"那你目前為止今年是編了2343萬"},{"start":2739.17,"end":2743.17,"text":"但是這件事情我也不斷地質詢過會單位"},{"start":2743.17,"end":2746.17,"text":"就是呢 我對台電這個做法是非常的消極"},{"start":2746.17,"end":2749.17,"text":"然後呢 他們對於所謂的最終儲存"},{"start":2749.17,"end":2750.17,"text":"還有其實是中途"},{"start":2750.17,"end":2752.17,"text":"其實態度都不是太積極"},{"start":2752.17,"end":2754.17,"text":"然後呢 你們一開始是罰錢"},{"start":2754.17,"end":2757.17,"text":"後來變成是違規事項"},{"start":2757.17,"end":2760.17,"text":"然後再變成更軟的注意改進事項"},{"start":2760.17,"end":2762.17,"text":"你根本完全不痛不癢的"},{"start":2762.17,"end":2763.17,"text":"那比較讓我困惑的就是"},{"start":2763.17,"end":2765.17,"text":"你對它的消極態度沒轍"},{"start":2765.17,"end":2768.17,"text":"但是你對這項預算你反而是越編越多"},{"start":2768.17,"end":2769.17,"text":"每年越編越多"},{"start":2769.17,"end":2772.17,"text":"然後你現在不管說最終儲存"},{"start":2772.17,"end":2773.17,"text":"你都沒有進展"},{"start":2773.17,"end":2775.17,"text":"而且三座核電廠當中的"},{"start":2775.17,"end":2777.17,"text":"中程目標的乾儲存設施"},{"start":2777.17,"end":2780.17,"text":"目前的推動有任何的進展嗎"},{"start":2781.22,"end":2782.22,"text":"主委"},{"start":2783.35,"end":2785.35,"text":"我們很會對這個"},{"start":2787.01,"end":2790.01,"text":"各項計畫都會持續的"},{"start":2790.01,"end":2792.01,"text":"沒有啊 你的態度都非常消極"},{"start":2792.01,"end":2793.01,"text":"預算越編越多"},{"start":2793.01,"end":2794.01,"text":"我先告訴你 你看"},{"start":2794.01,"end":2797.01,"text":"我們這樣核用過的燃料棒"},{"start":2797.01,"end":2800.01,"text":"目前只能是先放在爐心燃料池"},{"start":2800.01,"end":2801.01,"text":"但是燃料池已經滿了"},{"start":2801.01,"end":2804.01,"text":"但是你看看 核二項目前有規劃重啟"},{"start":2804.01,"end":2808.01,"text":"勢必你必須要把這個核燃料棒把它移出"},{"start":2808.01,"end":2811.01,"text":"所以室外乾儲跟室內都非常的重要"},{"start":2811.01,"end":2813.01,"text":"所以說呢 到底預計什麼時候可以完工"},{"start":2813.01,"end":2816.01,"text":"什麼時候可以取得這個運轉的執照"},{"start":2816.01,"end":2817.01,"text":"而且我還是一次問"},{"start":2817.01,"end":2821.01,"text":"不只室外的鋼純室內的乾儲也有必要性"},{"start":2821.01,"end":2825.01,"text":"那三座核電廠目前來說室內乾儲進行招標"},{"start":2825.01,"end":2830.01,"text":"然後呢 台電告訴大家是2028 2029 2032完成"},{"start":2830.01,"end":2832.01,"text":"但不好意思 我們來看一下"},{"start":2832.01,"end":2834.01,"text":"核一已經留標兩次"},{"start":2834.01,"end":2837.01,"text":"去年核一核二聯合招標又留標三次"},{"start":2837.01,"end":2839.01,"text":"然後呢 又延宕了四年"},{"start":2839.01,"end":2841.01,"text":"核三本來是去年要絕標"},{"start":2841.01,"end":2843.01,"text":"今年也已經絕標 也要今年"},{"start":2843.01,"end":2847.01,"text":"所以到底這個乾儲組成設施都往後拖延"},{"start":2847.01,"end":2850.01,"text":"那請問核安會你的監督的機制到底在哪裡"},{"start":2850.01,"end":2853.01,"text":"我們前會給啊 但是你一定要有作為啊"},{"start":2854.57,"end":2857.57,"text":"跟委員說明一下"},{"start":2857.57,"end":2864.57,"text":"那目前核一的乾儲儲存我們已經核發運轉執照"},{"start":2864.57,"end":2866.57,"text":"所以它正在運轉"},{"start":2866.57,"end":2867.57,"text":"核二核三的"},{"start":2867.57,"end":2871.57,"text":"核二部分我們在三月份已經同意它試運轉"},{"start":2871.57,"end":2873.57,"text":"那試運轉完以後"},{"start":2873.57,"end":2874.57,"text":"它預算試運轉結果"},{"start":2874.57,"end":2876.57,"text":"它就會來跟我們申請運轉執照"},{"start":2876.57,"end":2879.57,"text":"那我們的審查時間大概需要三個月"},{"start":2879.57,"end":2880.57,"text":"三個月後"},{"start":2880.57,"end":2882.57,"text":"三個月後 目前為止是五月"},{"start":2882.57,"end":2885.57,"text":"所以我們期望在新的會期九月的時候可以看到"},{"start":2885.57,"end":2887.57,"text":"它目前還在做試運轉"},{"start":2887.57,"end":2888.57,"text":"因為我們要給預算嘛"},{"start":2888.57,"end":2890.57,"text":"我當然要拿出你們的這個績效出來嘛"},{"start":2890.57,"end":2891.57,"text":"一直不斷的留標"},{"start":2891.57,"end":2893.57,"text":"而且更不要講下面一個"},{"start":2893.57,"end":2894.57,"text":"跟你們意外的部分"},{"start":2894.57,"end":2897.57,"text":"這個室內的儲存 這個儲存的招標"},{"start":2897.57,"end":2899.57,"text":"疑似某一些的壓力"},{"start":2899.57,"end":2902.57,"text":"然後呢決定要給日系的NAC團隊"},{"start":2902.57,"end":2903.57,"text":"有這件事嗎"},{"start":2904.36,"end":2907.36,"text":"跟委員說明NAC是美國公司"},{"start":2907.36,"end":2908.36,"text":"核二廠的干事處"},{"start":2908.36,"end":2910.36,"text":"室外干處就是NAC公司得標"},{"start":2910.36,"end":2911.36,"text":"是"},{"start":2911.36,"end":2913.36,"text":"正在試運轉的"},{"start":2913.36,"end":2915.36,"text":"那為什麼有特別的報導"},{"start":2915.36,"end":2916.36,"text":"這是我們引述媒體的報導"},{"start":2916.36,"end":2918.36,"text":"我想因為台電目前沒有做出一個澄清"},{"start":2918.36,"end":2921.36,"text":"所以我們有必要在質詢台上來問個清楚"},{"start":2921.36,"end":2923.36,"text":"那這樣子的一個干事儲存的這個系統"},{"start":2923.36,"end":2928.36,"text":"目前看起來是沒有辦法裝載這個招標當中所有的規範"},{"start":2928.36,"end":2932.36,"text":"所以說呢他們認為是違反這個招標的文件的要求"},{"start":2932.36,"end":2935.36,"text":"那你們核安會目前掌握的狀況是如何"},{"start":2935.36,"end":2936.36,"text":"而且我也知道"},{"start":2936.36,"end":2939.36,"text":"最後還是要通過核安會的這個最後的審查"},{"start":2939.36,"end":2941.36,"text":"但是我們不希望全部都完成之後"},{"start":2941.36,"end":2943.36,"text":"然後呢核安會說告訴我這不符合規定"},{"start":2943.36,"end":2945.36,"text":"我們不需要發生這樣的狀況"},{"start":2945.36,"end":2947.36,"text":"所以現在就要預警來告知"},{"start":2947.36,"end":2950.36,"text":"你們這個時候有辦法預先了解整個招標過程"},{"start":2950.36,"end":2952.36,"text":"然後這個廠商是不是符合規定"},{"start":2952.36,"end":2954.36,"text":"有辦法做到這一點嗎"},{"start":2954.36,"end":2957.36,"text":"可以 跟委員說明NAC公司的產品"},{"start":2957.36,"end":2960.36,"text":"經過美國核管會的審定"},{"start":2960.36,"end":2964.36,"text":"在美國有四家電力公司"},{"start":2964.36,"end":2965.36,"text":"你把這些資料給我"},{"start":2965.36,"end":2966.36,"text":"因為就我們的理解裡面"},{"start":2966.36,"end":2969.36,"text":"他所過去承載的這個經歷履歷"},{"start":2969.36,"end":2974.36,"text":"各方面說能夠承載出這樣子一個所謂的干除的這樣的一個標準"},{"start":2974.36,"end":2976.36,"text":"目前來說顯然是跟我們的認知有些落差"},{"start":2976.36,"end":2979.36,"text":"所以我要求核安會把你所知道的部分"},{"start":2979.36,"end":2980.36,"text":"送一份報告給本席"},{"start":2980.36,"end":2981.36,"text":"可以 好不好"},{"start":2981.36,"end":2982.36,"text":"這件事非常的重要"},{"start":2982.36,"end":2984.36,"text":"我們只希望積極而且在這個核電"},{"start":2984.36,"end":2987.36,"text":"有可能在一次的重啟的過程裡面"},{"start":2987.36,"end":2988.36,"text":"我們每一個細節"},{"start":2988.36,"end":2990.36,"text":"我們不希望因為延大或是招標"},{"start":2990.36,"end":2992.36,"text":"出現大家有所質疑的地方"},{"start":2992.36,"end":2995.36,"text":"而讓整個的流程因此而受到很大的影響"},{"start":2995.36,"end":2996.36,"text":"這是我們最終的目標"},{"start":2996.36,"end":2997.36,"text":"可以把這個目標"},{"start":2997.36,"end":3000.36,"text":"還有它裡面的這個細節全部給本席一份"},{"start":3000.36,"end":3002.36,"text":"還有接下來我還是要問到這個預轉了"},{"start":3002.36,"end":3005.36,"text":"核電重啟的這個目前為止來說的話"},{"start":3005.36,"end":3007.36,"text":"已經送交了再預轉計劃嗎"},{"start":3007.36,"end":3008.36,"text":"沒錯嗎主委"},{"start":3009.25,"end":3012.25,"text":"好 那如果是送再運轉的預轉以後"},{"start":3012.25,"end":3014.25,"text":"你們第二核二的重啟計劃"},{"start":3014.25,"end":3017.25,"text":"跟審查消除的成員跟核三是同一批人嗎"},{"start":3018.23,"end":3019.23,"text":"核二和三是同一批人"},{"start":3019.23,"end":3021.23,"text":"審查的人員是一樣嗎"},{"start":3022.63,"end":3023.63,"text":"因為核二還沒提出來"},{"start":3023.63,"end":3025.63,"text":"所以我們會另外再規劃"},{"start":3025.63,"end":3026.63,"text":"為什麼我要提出來"},{"start":3026.63,"end":3027.63,"text":"因為你們現在人力完全不足嗎"},{"start":3027.63,"end":3028.63,"text":"這點你們都必須要承認嗎"},{"start":3028.63,"end":3029.63,"text":"我們來看看"},{"start":3029.63,"end":3031.63,"text":"你看這裡面這個目前來說的話"},{"start":3031.63,"end":3035.63,"text":"未來五年內持有持照的人員寄零退休"},{"start":3035.63,"end":3036.63,"text":"而且很多的運轉"},{"start":3036.63,"end":3039.63,"text":"高級反應器運轉的人數"},{"start":3039.63,"end":3040.63,"text":"年底就只剩下20個人"},{"start":3040.63,"end":3042.63,"text":"低於標準規範的21"},{"start":3042.63,"end":3043.63,"text":"然後我更要講說"},{"start":3043.63,"end":3045.63,"text":"2026年只剩下17"},{"start":3045.63,"end":3047.63,"text":"而且這家核三的小組成員"},{"start":3047.63,"end":3050.63,"text":"除了現有的核安會專業人力之外"},{"start":3050.63,"end":3052.63,"text":"你們外部專家19個人當中"},{"start":3052.63,"end":3055.63,"text":"外部專家裡面就有7人是核安會籍"},{"start":3055.63,"end":3057.63,"text":"國務院會員原來的退休人物"},{"start":3057.63,"end":3059.63,"text":"還包括你們的記證處長等等之類的"},{"start":3059.63,"end":3060.63,"text":"所以我就說"},{"start":3060.63,"end":3062.63,"text":"長期我們沒有培養核安人才"},{"start":3062.63,"end":3066.63,"text":"目前為止就面臨著我們中間人力很大的不足"},{"start":3066.63,"end":3069.63,"text":"那你們有任何的問題我們再往下面去看"},{"start":3069.63,"end":3071.63,"text":"你們的技術人員還有包括你們研究人員"},{"start":3071.63,"end":3073.63,"text":"跟你們的預算跟實際的運作"},{"start":3073.63,"end":3074.63,"text":"都有很大的部分"},{"start":3074.63,"end":3077.63,"text":"永遠不足而且越來越嚴重"},{"start":3077.63,"end":3080.63,"text":"你看然後國研院情況更加嚴峻"},{"start":3080.63,"end":3082.63,"text":"113年改進之後"},{"start":3082.63,"end":3085.63,"text":"技術人員缺氧達到77人"},{"start":3085.63,"end":3088.63,"text":"往後幾乎每年都有50人沒有補滿"},{"start":3088.63,"end":3091.63,"text":"所以到我們今年4月底的時候"},{"start":3091.63,"end":3092.63,"text":"有49人補滿"},{"start":3092.63,"end":3095.63,"text":"這就是我們長期我一直不斷的強調"},{"start":3095.63,"end":3097.63,"text":"過去我們有的"},{"start":3097.63,"end":3100.63,"text":"包括主委還有在場非常多人"},{"start":3100.63,"end":3101.63,"text":"對不對"},{"start":3101.63,"end":3103.63,"text":"都是我們合工非常優秀的人才"},{"start":3103.63,"end":3104.63,"text":"長期因為這樣的delay"},{"start":3104.63,"end":3105.63,"text":"即使你再重啟"},{"start":3105.63,"end":3106.63,"text":"我們的人力還是不足"},{"start":3106.63,"end":3108.63,"text":"目前這樣所看到的就是如此"},{"start":3108.63,"end":3109.63,"text":"不是嗎"},{"start":3109.63,"end":3112.63,"text":"完全沒有前瞻戲來規劃我們和安的人才"},{"start":3112.63,"end":3113.63,"text":"這個問題怎麼解決"},{"start":3113.63,"end":3115.63,"text":"我們願意給大家錢"},{"start":3115.63,"end":3116.63,"text":"可是你每次都補不足"},{"start":3116.63,"end":3117.63,"text":"這怎麼辦"},{"start":3119.46,"end":3120.46,"text":"這是個事實吧"},{"start":3122.48,"end":3124.48,"text":"這個斷財斷成了這麼嚴重"},{"start":3124.48,"end":3125.48,"text":"我們就不但用資深"},{"start":3125.48,"end":3126.48,"text":"資深沒有問題"},{"start":3126.48,"end":3128.48,"text":"但是新進的人員在哪裡"},{"start":3128.48,"end":3131.48,"text":"報告委員我們經過七四"},{"start":3131.48,"end":3133.48,"text":"從113年經過七四的召集"},{"start":3133.48,"end":3136.48,"text":"我們人員穩定維持在900個人"},{"start":3136.48,"end":3137.48,"text":"那問您是為什麼"},{"start":3137.48,"end":3139.48,"text":"難道我的資料是錯誤的嗎"},{"start":3139.48,"end":3142.48,"text":"因為這個有些是原來專資人力"},{"start":3142.48,"end":3143.48,"text":"我們原來有200"},{"start":3143.48,"end":3144.48,"text":"你把所有的人力"},{"start":3144.48,"end":3146.48,"text":"因為這個時間的關係"},{"start":3146.48,"end":3148.48,"text":"把所有的人力你真實的人力"},{"start":3148.48,"end":3150.48,"text":"你如果覺得這個資料是有問題"},{"start":3150.48,"end":3151.48,"text":"但是人力不足"},{"start":3151.48,"end":3152.48,"text":"這是個事實嗎"},{"start":3152.48,"end":3153.48,"text":"完全補不完這是個事實吧"},{"start":3153.48,"end":3155.48,"text":"現在我們還透過"},{"start":3155.48,"end":3156.48,"text":"國際貸易"},{"start":3156.48,"end":3157.48,"text":"我們沒有不足嗎"},{"start":3157.48,"end":3158.48,"text":"現在有沒有不足"},{"start":3158.48,"end":3161.48,"text":"我們今年還是持續要補足五六十位"},{"start":3161.48,"end":3162.48,"text":"然後呢"},{"start":3162.48,"end":3164.48,"text":"已經達到你剛出剛我們預算的"},{"start":3164.48,"end":3165.48,"text":"預算的原額了嗎"},{"start":3165.48,"end":3167.48,"text":"還差六十位"},{"start":3167.48,"end":3168.48,"text":"我們現在已經"},{"start":3168.48,"end":3170.48,"text":"我們每一年都給你錢"},{"start":3170.48,"end":3171.48,"text":"可是每次都沒有"},{"start":3171.48,"end":3173.48,"text":"所以這個問題我們要好好討論"},{"start":3173.48,"end":3174.48,"text":"我只是告訴大家"},{"start":3174.48,"end":3175.48,"text":"和工的人才非常的重要"},{"start":3175.48,"end":3177.48,"text":"但是長期過去十年"},{"start":3177.48,"end":3179.48,"text":"十五年造成這樣的一個結果"},{"start":3179.48,"end":3180.48,"text":"你現在要找到這個人"},{"start":3180.48,"end":3183.48,"text":"而且說實在的資深的人都退不掉"},{"start":3183.48,"end":3185.48,"text":"心驚的人因為你還要再加上了"},{"start":3185.48,"end":3187.48,"text":"這個所謂的給他再續練的時間"},{"start":3187.48,"end":3189.48,"text":"這是我們人力最大的匱乏"},{"start":3189.48,"end":3191.48,"text":"這是我們今天最大的一個問題"},{"start":3191.48,"end":3192.48,"text":"不是只有核料棒"},{"start":3192.48,"end":3194.48,"text":"不是只有燃料棒的問題"},{"start":3194.48,"end":3196.48,"text":"人力也是一個很大的問題"},{"start":3196.48,"end":3198.48,"text":"我們等一下在審預算的時候就好好"},{"start":3198.48,"end":3200.48,"text":"給本席一個真實"},{"start":3200.48,"end":3202.48,"text":"你們真的覺得人力上的缺乏"},{"start":3202.48,"end":3203.48,"text":"裡面最重要的一個因素"},{"start":3203.48,"end":3204.48,"text":"好不好謝謝"},{"start":3204.48,"end":3206.48,"text":"讓我補充一下"},{"start":3206.48,"end":3208.48,"text":"我們對於人力補充方面"},{"start":3208.48,"end":3210.48,"text":"我們荷蘭會以及國研院"},{"start":3210.48,"end":3213.48,"text":"我們請清華大學來給我們開"},{"start":3213.48,"end":3215.48,"text":"碩士的學分班"},{"start":3215.48,"end":3218.48,"text":"現在有四十幾個人在進修這個學位"},{"start":3218.48,"end":3221.48,"text":"這是我們補充人力的一個方法"},{"start":3221.48,"end":3223.48,"text":"我們也鼓勵清華大學"},{"start":3223.48,"end":3224.48,"text":"多收一些學生"},{"start":3224.48,"end":3227.48,"text":"也要爭取很多研究經費等等"},{"start":3227.48,"end":3228.48,"text":"我們盡量努力"},{"start":3228.48,"end":3230.48,"text":"去年就開始碩士班"},{"start":3230.48,"end":3232.48,"text":"然後來補足這個部分"},{"start":3232.48,"end":3235.48,"text":"這就是我們現在培養人才的目標"},{"start":3235.48,"end":3237.48,"text":"培養人才的一個目標"},{"start":3237.48,"end":3239.48,"text":"非常的太短視了"},{"start":3239.48,"end":3241.48,"text":"但是總比沒有好"},{"start":3241.48,"end":3242.48,"text":"我還是要強調"},{"start":3242.48,"end":3244.48,"text":"這是長期對於人力培養"},{"start":3244.48,"end":3245.48,"text":"完全沒有前瞻"},{"start":3245.48,"end":3247.48,"text":"完全缺乏的一個最重要的表達"},{"start":3247.48,"end":3249.48,"text":"現在我們也要努力來"},{"start":3249.48,"end":3251.48,"text":"堅持這方面的控制"},{"start":3251.48,"end":3253.48,"text":"謝謝委員的指教"},{"start":3253.48,"end":3255.48,"text":"謝謝柯志恩委員的質詢"},{"start":3255.48,"end":3256.48,"text":"請主委回座"},{"start":3256.48,"end":3261.48,"text":"接下來有請陳培瑜委員進行詢答"},{"start":3265.97,"end":3266.97,"text":"好 謝謝主席"},{"start":3266.97,"end":3268.97,"text":"有請和安會主委 謝謝"},{"start":3268.97,"end":3270.97,"text":"請和安會主委"},{"start":3276.07,"end":3277.07,"text":"好 主委你好"},{"start":3277.07,"end":3278.07,"text":"早安"},{"start":3278.07,"end":3280.07,"text":"上一次在這裡對話的時候"},{"start":3280.07,"end":3282.07,"text":"其實我也是問關於這個說明會"},{"start":3282.07,"end":3284.07,"text":"但是當時在問的時候呢"},{"start":3284.07,"end":3285.07,"text":"說明會還沒有舉辦"},{"start":3285.07,"end":3287.07,"text":"那我們現在看到4月28號"},{"start":3287.07,"end":3289.07,"text":"和安會已經在屏東縣"},{"start":3289.07,"end":3291.07,"text":"恆春鎮公所辦的這個說明會"},{"start":3291.07,"end":3293.07,"text":"當時在辦這個說明會之前"},{"start":3293.07,"end":3295.07,"text":"我其實給了和安會幾個建議跟提醒"},{"start":3295.07,"end":3297.07,"text":"拜託和安會一定要積極的"},{"start":3297.07,"end":3299.07,"text":"跟地方的居民溝通"},{"start":3299.07,"end":3301.07,"text":"我們來看一下這個說明會"},{"start":3301.07,"end":3303.07,"text":"現在現場反映出一些狀況"},{"start":3303.07,"end":3304.07,"text":"我不確定主委"},{"start":3304.07,"end":3305.07,"text":"我確定主委"},{"start":3305.07,"end":3307.07,"text":"你有沒有掌握到現場相親的一些反應呢"},{"start":3307.07,"end":3308.07,"text":"第一個"},{"start":3308.07,"end":3309.07,"text":"現場說呢"},{"start":3309.07,"end":3314.07,"text":"在說明會的前12天左右才收到公文"},{"start":3314.07,"end":3316.07,"text":"而在地的很多居民"},{"start":3316.07,"end":3318.07,"text":"不是這個公文的收受對象"},{"start":3318.07,"end":3320.07,"text":"甚至呢大家說"},{"start":3320.07,"end":3322.07,"text":"你只有跟這個相公所說"},{"start":3322.07,"end":3323.07,"text":"跟鎮公所說"},{"start":3323.07,"end":3325.07,"text":"其實一般關心這些議題的人"},{"start":3325.07,"end":3327.07,"text":"不見得會知道"},{"start":3327.07,"end":3328.07,"text":"那我知道和安會你們會說"},{"start":3328.07,"end":3330.07,"text":"有啊 我們有上網公告"},{"start":3330.07,"end":3332.07,"text":"上一次我就已經提醒了"},{"start":3332.07,"end":3333.07,"text":"這個數位落差"},{"start":3333.07,"end":3335.07,"text":"絕對是一個很大的溝通障礙"},{"start":3335.07,"end":3338.07,"text":"我們必須要透過更多一般居民"},{"start":3338.07,"end":3340.07,"text":"所熟悉的溝通系統的管道"},{"start":3340.07,"end":3342.07,"text":"想盡辦法讓他們知道"},{"start":3342.07,"end":3344.07,"text":"但很可惜我們在活動當天"},{"start":3344.07,"end":3346.07,"text":"甚至在後續的新聞報導上"},{"start":3346.07,"end":3349.07,"text":"其實有非常多的地方居民表示不滿"},{"start":3349.07,"end":3351.07,"text":"表示沒有被積極告知"},{"start":3351.07,"end":3352.07,"text":"怎麼說呢"},{"start":3352.07,"end":3353.07,"text":"還有一個事情是這樣說"},{"start":3353.07,"end":3355.07,"text":"他們說甚至呢"},{"start":3355.8,"end":3357.8,"text":"有一個居民他就願意具體的說"},{"start":3357.8,"end":3358.8,"text":"他叫什麼名字"},{"start":3358.8,"end":3359.8,"text":"他說呢"},{"start":3359.8,"end":3362.8,"text":"甚至在和安會的重啟案的委員會當中"},{"start":3362.8,"end":3364.8,"text":"有64個委員"},{"start":3364.8,"end":3365.8,"text":"可是在64個委員"},{"start":3365.8,"end":3367.8,"text":"居然沒有一個是當地的居民"},{"start":3367.8,"end":3369.8,"text":"或者是公民團體代表"},{"start":3369.8,"end":3371.8,"text":"也就是相關的公民團體也好"},{"start":3371.8,"end":3375.8,"text":"在地的居民居然連參與的機會都沒有"},{"start":3375.8,"end":3378.8,"text":"而他們認為在這樣的重啟程序下"},{"start":3378.8,"end":3380.8,"text":"所辦的地方說明會"},{"start":3380.8,"end":3381.8,"text":"會不會流於形式"},{"start":3381.8,"end":3383.8,"text":"只是和安會辦完就好了"},{"start":3383.8,"end":3385.8,"text":"那甚至會說呢"},{"start":3385.8,"end":3386.8,"text":"第二個問題就是"},{"start":3386.8,"end":3389.8,"text":"我知道和安會你們有在會議之前"},{"start":3389.8,"end":3390.8,"text":"在網路上"},{"start":3390.8,"end":3394.8,"text":"邀請大家提出對相關事情的問題"},{"start":3394.8,"end":3396.8,"text":"收集了意見"},{"start":3396.8,"end":3398.8,"text":"可是這些意見跟問題的說明"},{"start":3398.8,"end":3400.8,"text":"也沒有在當天的說明會上"},{"start":3400.8,"end":3403.8,"text":"給予回覆或者是統一說明"},{"start":3403.8,"end":3405.8,"text":"那後續我們要怎麼看到"},{"start":3405.8,"end":3407.8,"text":"你們針對這些網路上提供出來的意見"},{"start":3407.8,"end":3410.8,"text":"或者是問題給予一些說明跟回答"},{"start":3410.8,"end":3412.8,"text":"目前大家還是抱持著疑惑"},{"start":3412.8,"end":3414.8,"text":"光是這樣就兩件事情了"},{"start":3414.8,"end":3415.8,"text":"還有再來就是"},{"start":3415.8,"end":3418.8,"text":"如果相關的重啟程序的會議"},{"start":3418.8,"end":3420.8,"text":"和安會在預算說明的時候"},{"start":3420.8,"end":3421.8,"text":"有來我們辦公室說"},{"start":3421.8,"end":3424.8,"text":"你們跟我們說總共會有四場"},{"start":3424.8,"end":3425.8,"text":"我來確定一下"},{"start":3425.8,"end":3427.8,"text":"一個是再運轉這個會議會有一場"},{"start":3427.8,"end":3429.8,"text":"後續快要審查完會再有一場"},{"start":3429.8,"end":3432.8,"text":"然後呢相關的自主安全會再有一場"},{"start":3432.8,"end":3434.8,"text":"然後自主安全快審完會有一場"},{"start":3434.8,"end":3436.8,"text":"總共只有四場"},{"start":3436.8,"end":3438.8,"text":"但是如果第一場辦完之後"},{"start":3438.8,"end":3440.8,"text":"地方給予的回饋是這樣"},{"start":3440.8,"end":3442.8,"text":"是不是可以請和安會說明一下"},{"start":3442.8,"end":3444.8,"text":"你們後續會再如何調整"},{"start":3444.8,"end":3447.8,"text":"一如何更加積極的跟地方的鄉親溝通"},{"start":3447.8,"end":3450.8,"text":"在會議之前要確保所有關心的人"},{"start":3450.8,"end":3452.8,"text":"都能夠收到訊息"},{"start":3452.8,"end":3454.8,"text":"他要不要去是他的事情時間如何安排"},{"start":3454.8,"end":3456.8,"text":"第二個我之前就提醒過你們"},{"start":3456.8,"end":3459.8,"text":"如果我們辦的會議時間是上班時間"},{"start":3459.8,"end":3462.8,"text":"對於很多當地人來說其實非常非常的不友善"},{"start":3462.8,"end":3466.8,"text":"到底我們還可以用哪些管道跟方法讓更多人參與"},{"start":3466.8,"end":3469.8,"text":"再來這個重啟案裡面的委員會"},{"start":3469.8,"end":3471.8,"text":"如何有鄉親或者是公民團體的代表"},{"start":3471.8,"end":3474.8,"text":"還有後續的機制如何更加公開透明"},{"start":3474.8,"end":3476.8,"text":"除了這四場之外你們還有沒有什麼規劃"},{"start":3476.8,"end":3479.8,"text":"可不可以請主委或是相關幕僚做一下說明"},{"start":3480.86,"end":3486.86,"text":"跟委員說明有關於4月28號所辦理的地方說明會"},{"start":3486.86,"end":3490.86,"text":"那我們已經有收集到民眾所關心的議題"},{"start":3490.86,"end":3493.86,"text":"那我們經過彙整之後也會請相關單位"},{"start":3493.86,"end":3496.86,"text":"包括會裡面的各個相關單位"},{"start":3496.86,"end":3499.86,"text":"以及外部的單位來提供回應說明"},{"start":3499.86,"end":3505.86,"text":"經過彙整之後我們會把這些議題跟答覆公布在會裡面的網站"},{"start":3505.86,"end":3513.86,"text":"另外有關於其他民眾沒有收到相關訊息或關心民眾的組織"},{"start":3513.86,"end":3516.86,"text":"這部分我們會收集這次的相關資訊"},{"start":3516.86,"end":3519.86,"text":"然後在下一次辦地方說明會的時候"},{"start":3519.86,"end":3526.86,"text":"我們再主動發函邀請他們來出席下一次的地方說明會"},{"start":3527.15,"end":3532.15,"text":"至於地方說明會辦的這四場"},{"start":3532.15,"end":3537.15,"text":"我們會逐一去檢視看有沒有需要經濟的地方"},{"start":3537.15,"end":3543.15,"text":"事實上占運轉計畫事實上涉及到店長整個的專業部分"},{"start":3543.15,"end":3548.15,"text":"確實要讓民眾第一時間很快速了解確實可能比較辛苦"},{"start":3548.15,"end":3550.15,"text":"或者有它的難度"},{"start":3550.15,"end":3553.15,"text":"那我們也會思考看看有沒有可以經濟的地方"},{"start":3553.15,"end":3554.15,"text":"以上說明"},{"start":3555.68,"end":3559.68,"text":"我聽懂你的說明了可是我覺得剛剛您的說法有些危險"},{"start":3559.68,"end":3563.68,"text":"身為民意代表我要說確實核安有非常高度的專業"},{"start":3563.68,"end":3565.68,"text":"我們當然尊重所有的專家學者"},{"start":3565.68,"end":3570.68,"text":"可是不要忘了這些地方鄉親居民的聲音也很重要"},{"start":3570.68,"end":3572.68,"text":"他們所有的擔心他們所有的疑惑"},{"start":3572.68,"end":3576.68,"text":"如果可以透過適當的說明跟轉譯"},{"start":3576.68,"end":3579.68,"text":"我認為是可以促進更好的溝通"},{"start":3579.68,"end":3582.68,"text":"而轉譯這件事情如果不在你們的政策思維裡頭"},{"start":3582.68,"end":3586.68,"text":"如果高度抱持著某一種程度的專家的傲慢進到現場"},{"start":3586.68,"end":3589.68,"text":"我認為只會造成更大的衝突跟對立"},{"start":3589.68,"end":3591.68,"text":"所以我認為在這個前提底下"},{"start":3591.68,"end":3595.68,"text":"如何讓這個說明會不管是次數變得更好"},{"start":3595.68,"end":3597.68,"text":"然後轉譯的工作做得更好"},{"start":3597.68,"end":3601.68,"text":"甚至在事前收集意見的動作做得更好"},{"start":3601.68,"end":3606.68,"text":"我認為剛剛您的回答其實都還有再更多可以經濟的空間"},{"start":3606.68,"end":3608.68,"text":"我不知道你怎麼看"},{"start":3609.65,"end":3614.65,"text":"是 那就我們後續會來整體來思維看看"},{"start":3614.65,"end":3615.65,"text":"有沒有可以精進的地方"},{"start":3615.65,"end":3620.65,"text":"那至於說明會的主題各方面我們也會再想看看"},{"start":3620.65,"end":3624.65,"text":"用牽弦易懂的方式讓民眾可以在第一時間"},{"start":3624.65,"end":3629.65,"text":"可以了解說整個管制跟台電公司的作為"},{"start":3629.65,"end":3630.65,"text":"那以上說明"},{"start":3631.32,"end":3634.32,"text":"好 但是因為今天時間有限我尊重主席時間的安排"},{"start":3634.32,"end":3638.32,"text":"但我會說轉譯這件事情事前收集的這個事情"},{"start":3638.32,"end":3641.32,"text":"還有在當場溝通的誠意跟程序也很重要"},{"start":3641.32,"end":3644.32,"text":"因為說明會真的不能只是流於形式"},{"start":3644.32,"end":3647.32,"text":"對於和安會也好對台電公司也好"},{"start":3647.32,"end":3652.32,"text":"大家都希望可以把第一線的現場的聲音帶回去"},{"start":3652.32,"end":3655.32,"text":"然後專家學者做出轉譯跟做出回應"},{"start":3655.32,"end":3658.32,"text":"我認為這才是後續如果真的要重啟"},{"start":3658.32,"end":3660.32,"text":"我說的是如果真的要重啟"},{"start":3660.32,"end":3665.32,"text":"我們必須要在這個階段把很多跟民意溝通的工作做好"},{"start":3665.32,"end":3668.32,"text":"而不要真的假設到了重啟的那一刻"},{"start":3668.32,"end":3672.32,"text":"我們還要面對更大的社會衝突跟社會意見的討論"},{"start":3672.32,"end":3674.32,"text":"好不好 拜託你們 謝謝主席"},{"start":3674.32,"end":3675.32,"text":"好 謝謝委員"},{"start":3675.32,"end":3677.32,"text":"謝謝陳培鈺委員的諮詢"},{"start":3677.32,"end":3679.32,"text":"也請主委回座"},{"start":3680.68,"end":3684.68,"text":"下一位我們有請葛如君委員進行詢答"},{"start":3696.15,"end":3697.15,"text":"好 謝謝主席"},{"start":3698.08,"end":3700.08,"text":"有請陳主委"},{"start":3700.25,"end":3701.25,"text":"有請陳主委"},{"start":3709.96,"end":3710.96,"text":"陳主委好 委員好"},{"start":3710.96,"end":3712.96,"text":"我想賴清德總統已經說了"},{"start":3712.96,"end":3716.96,"text":"因為AI的發展他感謝立法院通過AI基本法"},{"start":3716.96,"end":3720.96,"text":"然後要思考核電的重啟"},{"start":3720.96,"end":3722.96,"text":"基本上也是支持的"},{"start":3722.96,"end":3727.96,"text":"那我們台北市的市長候選人沈柏楊委員"},{"start":3727.96,"end":3731.96,"text":"也一直擔心台北市或者其他的地方電不夠用"},{"start":3731.96,"end":3734.96,"text":"賴總統一直提到的新式核能"},{"start":3734.96,"end":3740.96,"text":"本席過去一直跟您提到SMR MMR的中長程的計畫"},{"start":3740.96,"end":3742.96,"text":"那當時預計四年花費10億"},{"start":3742.96,"end":3744.96,"text":"我一直喊說不夠"},{"start":3744.96,"end":3748.96,"text":"為什麼 因為你說要花台北一棟豪宅的錢"},{"start":3748.96,"end":3752.96,"text":"來做全中華民國未來十年"},{"start":3752.96,"end":3755.96,"text":"甚至二十年五十年的人員的準備"},{"start":3755.96,"end":3757.96,"text":"這太荒謬了"},{"start":3758.66,"end":3760.66,"text":"但是據本席了解"},{"start":3760.66,"end":3762.66,"text":"現在這個四年十億"},{"start":3762.66,"end":3764.66,"text":"竟然還被國科會打槍"},{"start":3764.66,"end":3766.66,"text":"砍到剩下4.8億"},{"start":3766.66,"end":3768.66,"text":"一年只剩1.2億"},{"start":3768.66,"end":3770.66,"text":"這個逃租引員"},{"start":3771.28,"end":3774.28,"text":"這個一個廁所可能都還不夠啊"},{"start":3774.28,"end":3776.28,"text":"這個請問這是確定的嗎"},{"start":3778.82,"end":3780.82,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":3782.99,"end":3785.99,"text":"才接到國科會最近的會議記錄"},{"start":3785.99,"end":3789.99,"text":"前兩個禮拜主委帶隊到跟吳政委報告完以後"},{"start":3789.99,"end":3794.99,"text":"他同意我們今年總預算四年維持10億"},{"start":3794.99,"end":3796.99,"text":"但是今年 今年只有1.2億"},{"start":3796.99,"end":3799.99,"text":"還是第一年還是照原來的"},{"start":3799.99,"end":3802.99,"text":"就是4.8億除以4 1.2億"},{"start":3802.99,"end":3804.99,"text":"其他不足的後面三年再補齊"},{"start":3804.99,"end":3807.99,"text":"謝謝主委長期對這個議題的關心"},{"start":3807.99,"end":3811.99,"text":"那我想國科會在會議記錄已正式有回應"},{"start":3811.99,"end":3816.99,"text":"我們重送申請計畫書這兩天會送到國科會"},{"start":3816.99,"end":3818.99,"text":"等核定以後大概就確定"},{"start":3818.99,"end":3820.99,"text":"恢復到10億的預算 謝謝委員"},{"start":3820.99,"end":3823.99,"text":"我想沒有能源安全就沒有國家安全"},{"start":3823.99,"end":3826.99,"text":"那沒有能源也不會有半導體"},{"start":3826.99,"end":3827.99,"text":"不會有AI"},{"start":3827.99,"end":3829.99,"text":"我想這個國科會主委應該是非常了解的"},{"start":3829.99,"end":3831.99,"text":"我們當然也是先感謝"},{"start":3831.99,"end":3833.99,"text":"我們國科會無主委沒有砍"},{"start":3833.99,"end":3837.99,"text":"但是當然第一年還是維持1.2億"},{"start":3837.99,"end":3839.99,"text":"這一點我們當然還是有點意見"},{"start":3839.99,"end":3841.99,"text":"為什麼 因為時間真的很重要"},{"start":3841.99,"end":3843.99,"text":"你說一年沒有辦法增加"},{"start":3843.99,"end":3846.99,"text":"那一年合工的人才可能就沒有辦法增加"},{"start":3846.99,"end":3850.99,"text":"我們新式核能的研發又再延宕一年"},{"start":3850.99,"end":3854.99,"text":"這一年對於AI來講的發展可能是一整個世紀"},{"start":3854.99,"end":3857.99,"text":"那我想賴清德總統一邊說新式核能"},{"start":3857.99,"end":3862.99,"text":"結果國科會對新式核能沒有更加倍的增加"},{"start":3862.99,"end":3863.99,"text":"不是說第一年兩倍"},{"start":3863.99,"end":3865.99,"text":"那這一點我覺得還是有點可惜"},{"start":3865.99,"end":3868.99,"text":"那總而言之這個計畫我們也希望"},{"start":3868.99,"end":3871.99,"text":"核安會 國科會 我們更多的部會"},{"start":3871.99,"end":3872.99,"text":"一起來支持"},{"start":3872.99,"end":3875.99,"text":"畢竟人員真的是我們的基準"},{"start":3875.99,"end":3877.99,"text":"我們也希望核工的人才"},{"start":3877.99,"end":3880.99,"text":"我們相關的研發跟應用可以更快的加速"},{"start":3880.99,"end":3884.99,"text":"以確保我們在AI在產業上面的競爭力"},{"start":3884.99,"end":3886.99,"text":"那另外上週有傳出"},{"start":3886.99,"end":3889.99,"text":"核三的甘楚廠招標爭議的事件"},{"start":3889.99,"end":3890.99,"text":"主委應該知道嘛"},{"start":3890.99,"end":3892.99,"text":"剛剛也有委員有問到嘛"},{"start":3892.99,"end":3894.99,"text":"那我想這個請問主委"},{"start":3894.99,"end":3896.99,"text":"台電在招標的時候"},{"start":3896.99,"end":3899.99,"text":"是誰來確保這些申請廠商"},{"start":3899.99,"end":3901.99,"text":"有沒有符合核安會的標準"},{"start":3903.28,"end":3906.28,"text":"是不是就是台電自己找嘛"},{"start":3906.28,"end":3907.28,"text":"對不對"},{"start":3907.28,"end":3909.28,"text":"是需要一些合乎標準的"},{"start":3909.28,"end":3910.28,"text":"這個細節有請"},{"start":3910.28,"end":3912.28,"text":"這標準是你們提供的嘛"},{"start":3912.28,"end":3915.28,"text":"那但是誰在執行這些標準的查核 誰"},{"start":3915.28,"end":3917.28,"text":"跟委員說明"},{"start":3917.28,"end":3920.28,"text":"那對於監事處這邊我們定有安全導責"},{"start":3920.28,"end":3921.28,"text":"安全審查導責"},{"start":3921.28,"end":3925.28,"text":"那這一部分他相關的標準"},{"start":3925.28,"end":3926.28,"text":"一定導責誰來執行"},{"start":3926.28,"end":3929.28,"text":"誰來確保申請的廠商符合標準"},{"start":3929.28,"end":3931.28,"text":"台電公司在招標規範的時候"},{"start":3931.28,"end":3935.28,"text":"就會將我們的安全導責的要求納入"},{"start":3935.28,"end":3936.28,"text":"對嘛 好"},{"start":3936.28,"end":3937.28,"text":"那請問"},{"start":3937.63,"end":3938.63,"text":"對台電來講"},{"start":3940.16,"end":3942.16,"text":"他好好的招標"},{"start":3942.16,"end":3944.16,"text":"他確保安全"},{"start":3944.16,"end":3946.16,"text":"這當然是他的道德所在"},{"start":3946.5,"end":3948.5,"text":"但是這是他的利益所在嗎"},{"start":3949.49,"end":3950.49,"text":"這是他的利益所在嗎"},{"start":3952.87,"end":3956.87,"text":"台電公司有義務要執行這個計畫"},{"start":3956.87,"end":3959.87,"text":"所以我們就是相信台電公司"},{"start":3959.87,"end":3962.87,"text":"那請問台電公司是國營的還是民營的"},{"start":3963.88,"end":3965.88,"text":"國營區"},{"start":3965.57,"end":3968.57,"text":"那所以我們過去都還記得"},{"start":3968.57,"end":3970.57,"text":"有快篩小吃店"},{"start":3970.57,"end":3971.57,"text":"超市進口彈"},{"start":3971.57,"end":3973.57,"text":"室內裝修炸藥的案子"},{"start":3973.57,"end":3975.57,"text":"我們不是在講說"},{"start":3975.57,"end":3977.57,"text":"這些公司都怎麼樣"},{"start":3977.57,"end":3979.57,"text":"而是說核能的東西"},{"start":3979.57,"end":3983.57,"text":"事關民眾安全和能源的需求"},{"start":3983.57,"end":3985.57,"text":"那你說台電自行處理"},{"start":3986.58,"end":3987.58,"text":"那核安會"},{"start":3987.58,"end":3988.58,"text":"只有一個導責"},{"start":3989.38,"end":3990.38,"text":"那假設"},{"start":3990.78,"end":3993.78,"text":"未來台電說就給這一家"},{"start":3993.78,"end":3996.78,"text":"我們說按照我們的安全的評估"},{"start":3996.78,"end":3997.78,"text":"就給這一家"},{"start":3997.78,"end":3999.78,"text":"結果核安會來判斷"},{"start":3999.78,"end":4000.78,"text":"有疑慮"},{"start":4000.78,"end":4002.78,"text":"根據你們的導責"},{"start":4002.78,"end":4003.78,"text":"你們有疑慮"},{"start":4003.78,"end":4004.78,"text":"是不是就要重新招標"},{"start":4006.27,"end":4007.27,"text":"是不是有這個可能"},{"start":4007.27,"end":4008.27,"text":"如果你們後來"},{"start":4008.27,"end":4009.27,"text":"他送過來發現"},{"start":4009.27,"end":4011.27,"text":"他自己說根據他的義務"},{"start":4011.27,"end":4012.27,"text":"這你剛剛講的"},{"start":4012.27,"end":4013.27,"text":"對不對"},{"start":4013.27,"end":4014.27,"text":"根據他的義務"},{"start":4014.27,"end":4016.27,"text":"結果他的義務執行出來的結果"},{"start":4016.27,"end":4018.27,"text":"你們覺得不夠安全"},{"start":4018.27,"end":4020.27,"text":"因為你們一定以安全為優先"},{"start":4020.27,"end":4021.27,"text":"對不對"},{"start":4021.27,"end":4022.27,"text":"那假設你們覺得有疑慮"},{"start":4022.27,"end":4023.27,"text":"是不是就要重新招標"},{"start":4023.27,"end":4024.27,"text":"各位報告"},{"start":4024.27,"end":4026.27,"text":"其實我們導責裡面有要求"},{"start":4026.27,"end":4029.27,"text":"他要採用國際已經成熟的產品"},{"start":4029.27,"end":4030.27,"text":"很好"},{"start":4030.27,"end":4031.27,"text":"如果他沒有"},{"start":4031.27,"end":4032.27,"text":"符合"},{"start":4032.27,"end":4033.27,"text":"他沒有符合"},{"start":4033.27,"end":4034.27,"text":"其實他就"},{"start":4034.27,"end":4035.27,"text":"他送案"},{"start":4035.27,"end":4036.27,"text":"他送件給我們的時候"},{"start":4036.27,"end":4037.27,"text":"他就不會"},{"start":4037.27,"end":4038.27,"text":"我們就"},{"start":4038.27,"end":4039.27,"text":"會給他打會票"},{"start":4039.27,"end":4041.27,"text":"你們是不是就會說不行"},{"start":4041.27,"end":4042.27,"text":"我現在就問你"},{"start":4042.27,"end":4043.27,"text":"他是不是要重新招標"},{"start":4043.27,"end":4044.27,"text":"對不對"},{"start":4044.27,"end":4045.27,"text":"對"},{"start":4045.27,"end":4047.27,"text":"但是假設他發生這件事"},{"start":4047.27,"end":4048.27,"text":"你們可以罰他錢嗎"},{"start":4048.27,"end":4051.27,"text":"你們可以行政懲處他嗎"},{"start":4051.27,"end":4053.27,"text":"我說核安會可不可以處罰他"},{"start":4053.27,"end":4054.27,"text":"不行"},{"start":4054.27,"end":4055.27,"text":"我想請問"},{"start":4055.27,"end":4057.27,"text":"所以你們的導責"},{"start":4057.27,"end":4058.27,"text":"他依據什麼條件"},{"start":4058.27,"end":4060.27,"text":"一定要遵守"},{"start":4060.83,"end":4063.83,"text":"因為他日後要跟我們申請安全"},{"start":4063.83,"end":4065.83,"text":"申請建造資料裡面安全文件報告"},{"start":4065.83,"end":4066.83,"text":"裡面就要附這個"},{"start":4066.83,"end":4067.83,"text":"所以就兩個"},{"start":4067.83,"end":4068.83,"text":"一個就是義務"},{"start":4068.83,"end":4069.83,"text":"你剛剛講的"},{"start":4069.83,"end":4070.83,"text":"第二個"},{"start":4070.83,"end":4071.83,"text":"如果沒有符合的話"},{"start":4071.83,"end":4073.83,"text":"送過來你們可能會把他reject"},{"start":4073.83,"end":4074.83,"text":"對不對"},{"start":4075.27,"end":4077.27,"text":"那請問reject以後"},{"start":4077.27,"end":4079.27,"text":"這整件事情是不是就延宕了"},{"start":4079.27,"end":4080.27,"text":"是"},{"start":4080.27,"end":4082.27,"text":"那您覺得過去台電"},{"start":4082.27,"end":4083.27,"text":"在核電重啟"},{"start":4083.27,"end":4084.27,"text":"在核能上"},{"start":4085.4,"end":4086.4,"text":"是支持的嗎"},{"start":4087.49,"end":4088.49,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":4088.49,"end":4090.49,"text":"其實在甘氏屬這件事情"},{"start":4090.49,"end":4093.49,"text":"我們每個月都跟台電開溝通管制會"},{"start":4093.49,"end":4095.49,"text":"所以我們有掌握到"},{"start":4095.49,"end":4097.49,"text":"台電公司他在招標的時候"},{"start":4097.49,"end":4099.49,"text":"有符合這樣的狀況"},{"start":4099.49,"end":4101.49,"text":"我想其實我一直在講的"},{"start":4101.49,"end":4102.49,"text":"其實就是說"},{"start":4102.49,"end":4105.49,"text":"賴清德總統要新式核能"},{"start":4105.49,"end":4107.49,"text":"核電也要重啟"},{"start":4107.49,"end":4110.49,"text":"我們相應的整個生態系"},{"start":4110.49,"end":4111.49,"text":"都要準備好"},{"start":4111.49,"end":4112.49,"text":"對不對"},{"start":4112.49,"end":4116.49,"text":"那這個未來可能會造成人員政策"},{"start":4116.49,"end":4119.49,"text":"的轉換的延宕的情況"},{"start":4119.49,"end":4121.49,"text":"我們都要先預先處理"},{"start":4121.49,"end":4123.49,"text":"因為現在核安會的倒責"},{"start":4123.49,"end":4124.49,"text":"有沒有強制力"},{"start":4124.49,"end":4126.49,"text":"我就問有沒有強制力"},{"start":4127.45,"end":4128.45,"text":"倒責其實"},{"start":4128.45,"end":4130.45,"text":"倒責有沒有強制力"},{"start":4130.45,"end":4131.45,"text":"是沒有強制力"},{"start":4131.45,"end":4134.45,"text":"但是他會轉化成我們安全審查的"},{"start":4134.45,"end":4135.45,"text":"對嘛"},{"start":4135.45,"end":4136.45,"text":"那如果他一直不遵守"},{"start":4136.45,"end":4137.45,"text":"你一直給他打回去"},{"start":4137.45,"end":4139.45,"text":"他又再不遵守你一直打回去"},{"start":4139.45,"end":4141.45,"text":"我們是不是可以搞100年"},{"start":4142.67,"end":4145.67,"text":"台電公司從來沒有"},{"start":4145.67,"end":4148.67,"text":"應該是沒有做過威化我們倒責"},{"start":4148.67,"end":4149.67,"text":"你還好很好"},{"start":4149.67,"end":4151.67,"text":"你說台電公司應該很棒"},{"start":4151.67,"end":4152.67,"text":"他有義務對不對"},{"start":4152.67,"end":4153.67,"text":"好那我問"},{"start":4153.67,"end":4155.67,"text":"法規上說可以分階段送審"},{"start":4155.67,"end":4156.67,"text":"對不對"},{"start":4156.67,"end":4158.67,"text":"他的自主安檢計畫對不對"},{"start":4158.67,"end":4160.67,"text":"法規上所以分階段送審"},{"start":4160.67,"end":4162.67,"text":"台電不送你們有沒有辦法"},{"start":4163.55,"end":4165.55,"text":"台電不送你們有沒有辦法"},{"start":4165.74,"end":4166.74,"text":"有沒有辦法根據倒責"},{"start":4166.74,"end":4168.74,"text":"台電如果不送"},{"start":4168.74,"end":4170.74,"text":"分階段送審他一直不送"},{"start":4170.74,"end":4172.74,"text":"你們根據倒責你們有沒有辦法"},{"start":4172.74,"end":4173.74,"text":"對他有沒有辦法"},{"start":4173.74,"end":4174.74,"text":"有沒有強制力"},{"start":4174.74,"end":4175.74,"text":"沒有"},{"start":4175.74,"end":4177.74,"text":"可是我們會了解說"},{"start":4177.74,"end":4178.74,"text":"過程中發生什麼問題"},{"start":4178.74,"end":4179.74,"text":"對嘛"},{"start":4179.74,"end":4181.74,"text":"你看即便你們倒責裡面有寫"},{"start":4181.74,"end":4182.74,"text":"其實啊"},{"start":4182.74,"end":4184.74,"text":"只寫了建議兩個字"},{"start":4184.74,"end":4185.74,"text":"所以主委我想問嘛"},{"start":4185.74,"end":4187.74,"text":"剛剛他講說義務"},{"start":4187.74,"end":4188.74,"text":"台電有義務"},{"start":4188.74,"end":4190.74,"text":"台電以前都不會怎麼樣"},{"start":4190.74,"end":4191.74,"text":"我對台電沒有意見喔"},{"start":4191.74,"end":4194.74,"text":"但我們就是要看規則來做"},{"start":4194.74,"end":4196.74,"text":"我們要往最壞的方向做準備"},{"start":4196.74,"end":4198.74,"text":"法律有不完備的地方"},{"start":4198.74,"end":4199.74,"text":"我們要準備好"},{"start":4199.74,"end":4201.74,"text":"不然免得我們不要台灣"},{"start":4201.74,"end":4202.74,"text":"時間到了"},{"start":4202.74,"end":4203.74,"text":"哇真的沒電了"},{"start":4203.74,"end":4204.74,"text":"到現在"},{"start":4204.74,"end":4206.74,"text":"民進黨委員也都在喊沒電啊"},{"start":4206.74,"end":4208.74,"text":"我們也很緊張啊"},{"start":4208.74,"end":4209.74,"text":"全民都緊張"},{"start":4209.74,"end":4212.74,"text":"所以核三廠的自主安檢計畫"},{"start":4212.74,"end":4214.74,"text":"理論上有五份"},{"start":4214.74,"end":4215.74,"text":"有五份"},{"start":4215.74,"end":4217.74,"text":"這你們只寫建議啦"},{"start":4217.74,"end":4219.74,"text":"那你們這有五份"},{"start":4219.74,"end":4221.74,"text":"那請問有送任何一份來了嗎"},{"start":4221.74,"end":4223.74,"text":"剛剛說台電又有義務"},{"start":4223.74,"end":4225.74,"text":"而且他又很負責"},{"start":4226.93,"end":4227.93,"text":"請問"},{"start":4228.14,"end":4229.14,"text":"自主安檢計畫有五份"},{"start":4229.14,"end":4231.14,"text":"有送任何一份來了嗎"},{"start":4231.14,"end":4232.14,"text":"沒有"},{"start":4232.14,"end":4233.14,"text":"可是跟委員報告"},{"start":4233.14,"end":4234.14,"text":"這五份是法規規定"},{"start":4234.14,"end":4236.14,"text":"所以一定要送的"},{"start":4236.14,"end":4237.14,"text":"那他不送會怎麼樣"},{"start":4238.91,"end":4240.91,"text":"不送和安會能不能拿他怎樣"},{"start":4242.49,"end":4244.49,"text":"目前確實沒有"},{"start":4244.49,"end":4246.49,"text":"因為他是提交出來"},{"start":4246.49,"end":4247.49,"text":"對嘛"},{"start":4247.49,"end":4248.49,"text":"所以這個部分啦"},{"start":4248.49,"end":4252.49,"text":"我想大家我們都愛台電"},{"start":4252.49,"end":4253.49,"text":"我們也愛和安會"},{"start":4253.49,"end":4255.49,"text":"我們也愛我們中華民國"},{"start":4255.49,"end":4257.49,"text":"這個部分事關民眾安全"},{"start":4257.49,"end":4259.49,"text":"和國家能源的需求"},{"start":4259.49,"end":4260.49,"text":"我們剛剛這段對話"},{"start":4260.49,"end":4263.49,"text":"其實我就是希望請主委回去研議一下"},{"start":4263.49,"end":4267.49,"text":"看怎麼樣去提高和安會監督的能量"},{"start":4267.49,"end":4269.49,"text":"不然我們監督你"},{"start":4269.49,"end":4271.49,"text":"你們就說我們只有倒折"},{"start":4271.49,"end":4272.49,"text":"我們沒有強制力"},{"start":4272.49,"end":4274.49,"text":"那這樣我們怎麼監督呢"},{"start":4274.49,"end":4275.49,"text":"對不對"},{"start":4275.49,"end":4276.49,"text":"那我們也沒辦法"},{"start":4276.49,"end":4277.49,"text":"就是真的的話"},{"start":4277.49,"end":4280.49,"text":"派一個委員坐在台電裡面"},{"start":4280.49,"end":4281.49,"text":"也不合理嘛"},{"start":4281.49,"end":4284.49,"text":"所以例如訂定相關的執法"},{"start":4284.49,"end":4286.49,"text":"或者不要只是倒折嘛"},{"start":4286.49,"end":4288.49,"text":"或者我們之前提過的升級"},{"start":4288.49,"end":4290.49,"text":"可不可以一個月內給本席一個回覆"},{"start":4290.49,"end":4291.49,"text":"可以嗎主委"},{"start":4291.49,"end":4294.49,"text":"這個問題是您的層級了"},{"start":4294.49,"end":4295.49,"text":"可以的"},{"start":4295.49,"end":4296.49,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":4296.49,"end":4297.49,"text":"然後另外好"},{"start":4297.49,"end":4298.49,"text":"最後本席再關心一下"},{"start":4298.49,"end":4300.49,"text":"再運轉的審查計畫"},{"start":4300.49,"end":4301.49,"text":"目前和安會來"},{"start":4301.49,"end":4303.49,"text":"也感謝你們認真負責"},{"start":4303.49,"end":4305.49,"text":"也守法提出第一次的審查意見"},{"start":4305.49,"end":4308.49,"text":"正在台電公司答覆說明"},{"start":4308.49,"end":4310.49,"text":"那請問主委對台電的答覆"},{"start":4310.49,"end":4311.49,"text":"有沒有相關時程"},{"start":4311.49,"end":4312.49,"text":"因為我們一直講嘛"},{"start":4312.49,"end":4313.49,"text":"那他如果一直"},{"start":4313.49,"end":4315.49,"text":"你說該送的分階段送"},{"start":4315.49,"end":4316.49,"text":"他不送"},{"start":4316.49,"end":4317.49,"text":"你沒有強制力"},{"start":4317.49,"end":4319.49,"text":"已經送進來的部分"},{"start":4319.49,"end":4321.49,"text":"如果你回覆了"},{"start":4321.49,"end":4323.49,"text":"他又不額外的處理"},{"start":4323.49,"end":4325.49,"text":"就是你們的審查意見給他了"},{"start":4325.49,"end":4326.49,"text":"他又不回覆"},{"start":4326.49,"end":4328.49,"text":"這審查流程是不是就會卡住"},{"start":4328.49,"end":4329.49,"text":"跟委員說一說"},{"start":4329.49,"end":4332.49,"text":"台電公司在上個禮拜五"},{"start":4332.49,"end":4334.49,"text":"已經提出第一次的答覆說明"},{"start":4334.49,"end":4336.49,"text":"哎呀太好了"},{"start":4336.49,"end":4338.49,"text":"那這個今天的報告有提到嗎"},{"start":4339.47,"end":4342.47,"text":"應該是上禮拜五下班才提交出來的"},{"start":4342.47,"end":4345.47,"text":"好這個我想這個相關的互動啊"},{"start":4345.47,"end":4347.47,"text":"要更清楚透明的讓國人了解"},{"start":4347.47,"end":4351.47,"text":"禮拜五五六日意見已經過三天了"},{"start":4351.47,"end":4352.47,"text":"我們現在在這裡"},{"start":4352.47,"end":4354.47,"text":"我們還在用舊的資料"},{"start":4354.47,"end":4357.47,"text":"這是請問今天我們這個業務報告的資料"},{"start":4357.47,"end":4359.47,"text":"是今天送來的還是禮拜五送的"},{"start":4363.54,"end":4365.54,"text":"相關資訊要更新"},{"start":4365.54,"end":4369.54,"text":"我們現在新式核能的採用還有能源"},{"start":4369.54,"end":4372.54,"text":"每天每分鐘每秒鐘我們都在賽跑好不好"},{"start":4372.54,"end":4374.54,"text":"所以這一點再拜託更新一下"},{"start":4374.54,"end":4376.54,"text":"最後這個人才的部分"},{"start":4376.54,"end":4378.54,"text":"這剛剛有委員也問到了"},{"start":4378.54,"end":4380.54,"text":"這個人才啊這個"},{"start":4380.54,"end":4382.54,"text":"這個現在有一點"},{"start":4382.54,"end":4383.54,"text":"有一點缺漏啦"},{"start":4383.54,"end":4386.54,"text":"那一八年SR如果不足啊"},{"start":4386.54,"end":4387.54,"text":"考照狀況不理想"},{"start":4387.54,"end":4389.54,"text":"你們之前就人員不夠"},{"start":4389.54,"end":4391.54,"text":"現在已經低於二十一人了嘛"},{"start":4391.54,"end":4393.54,"text":"我們剛剛都看到了對不對"},{"start":4393.54,"end":4395.54,"text":"人才需求二十四人的有二十八"},{"start":4395.54,"end":4398.54,"text":"但是二十一人你們預計可能會降到十七"},{"start":4398.54,"end":4401.54,"text":"你們說啊要用其他考照的方式來替代"},{"start":4401.54,"end":4403.54,"text":"替代的方案"},{"start":4403.54,"end":4405.54,"text":"台電現在替代方案"},{"start":4405.54,"end":4407.54,"text":"哪些是核安會可以接受的"},{"start":4407.54,"end":4409.54,"text":"除了退休的經理再把他找回來"},{"start":4409.54,"end":4411.54,"text":"還有哪些人員可以替代"},{"start":4411.54,"end":4412.54,"text":"有沒有一些標準啊"},{"start":4412.54,"end":4414.54,"text":"我剛剛我有聽到說"},{"start":4414.54,"end":4417.54,"text":"其實我們一直在講核工人才"},{"start":4417.54,"end":4418.54,"text":"國研院很棒"},{"start":4418.54,"end":4422.54,"text":"開始在討論外國人才專業人才來台灣"},{"start":4422.54,"end":4423.54,"text":"這部分主委"},{"start":4423.54,"end":4424.54,"text":"我們還有哪些替代的方式"},{"start":4424.54,"end":4426.54,"text":"有沒有一個標準"},{"start":4427.98,"end":4429.98,"text":"我能不能跟委員先說明一下"},{"start":4429.98,"end":4432.98,"text":"這個是值班人員是台電公司要正式員工"},{"start":4432.98,"end":4437.98,"text":"那退休人員是協助當一些訓練的講師這部分"},{"start":4437.98,"end":4441.98,"text":"那這部分人員的人數啊訓練"},{"start":4441.98,"end":4443.98,"text":"會裡面在法規裡面已經規範了"},{"start":4443.98,"end":4445.98,"text":"所以要求台電公司在在運整計畫"},{"start":4445.98,"end":4448.98,"text":"要明確去規範這些人什麼什麼時候"},{"start":4448.98,"end":4450.98,"text":"要去逮捕跟訓練"},{"start":4450.98,"end":4452.98,"text":"要把這些人在"},{"start":4454.27,"end":4456.27,"text":"機組繼續運轉的時候"},{"start":4456.27,"end":4458.27,"text":"人員要符合法規的要求"},{"start":4458.27,"end":4460.27,"text":"好我想這個"},{"start":4460.27,"end":4462.27,"text":"核安核工的議題"},{"start":4462.27,"end":4464.27,"text":"還有核能還有核電"},{"start":4464.27,"end":4466.27,"text":"台灣電力充足能源安全的問題"},{"start":4466.27,"end":4469.27,"text":"全國民眾都很關心不分黨派"},{"start":4469.27,"end":4472.27,"text":"那我們不能只相信台電的背書"},{"start":4472.27,"end":4475.27,"text":"我們也核安會也不做台電的背書機關"},{"start":4475.27,"end":4477.27,"text":"台電有什麼地方做得不夠好"},{"start":4477.27,"end":4480.27,"text":"要加強請核安會這裡一定要第一時間"},{"start":4480.27,"end":4481.27,"text":"要告知大眾"},{"start":4481.27,"end":4484.27,"text":"跟台電之間的溝通也要清楚透明"},{"start":4484.27,"end":4486.27,"text":"不要這種禮拜五收到的文件"},{"start":4486.27,"end":4488.27,"text":"我們禮拜一在這裡質詢我們沒有得到資料"},{"start":4488.27,"end":4491.27,"text":"好不好相關的速度要夠快要透明"},{"start":4491.27,"end":4494.27,"text":"不要刺行到最後一個階段了"},{"start":4494.27,"end":4497.27,"text":"才來介入有這種所謂的delay"},{"start":4497.27,"end":4500.27,"text":"這種時程的這個這個不對齊"},{"start":4500.27,"end":4502.27,"text":"我們套一句沈柏楊委員講"},{"start":4502.27,"end":4503.27,"text":"時間要對齊啊"},{"start":4503.27,"end":4506.27,"text":"我們核安才能核能才能夠安全"},{"start":4506.27,"end":4508.27,"text":"我們的文化才能夠發展"},{"start":4508.27,"end":4510.27,"text":"國家的經濟才能夠建設"},{"start":4510.27,"end":4513.27,"text":"整個全球的局勢才能穩定好不好"},{"start":4513.27,"end":4516.27,"text":"所以我想這個核安會的重要性"},{"start":4516.27,"end":4517.27,"text":"就這麼的重要好不好"},{"start":4517.27,"end":4519.27,"text":"那最後出事的民眾不要"},{"start":4519.27,"end":4521.27,"text":"把他們算到你們頭上"},{"start":4521.27,"end":4523.27,"text":"那剛剛這個主委答應要研議的"},{"start":4523.27,"end":4525.27,"text":"再麻煩好不好謝謝"},{"start":4526.68,"end":4528.68,"text":"謝謝葛如君委員的質詢"},{"start":4528.68,"end":4529.68,"text":"請主委回座"},{"start":4529.68,"end":4534.68,"text":"下一位我們邀請陳吳佩奕委員進行詢答"},{"start":4542.93,"end":4546.93,"text":"謝謝主席我請核安會主委"},{"start":4552.7,"end":4553.7,"text":"主委好"},{"start":4553.7,"end":4554.7,"text":"委員好"},{"start":4554.7,"end":4556.7,"text":"上個禮拜5月17號發生一件"},{"start":4556.7,"end":4558.7,"text":"很嚴重的這個國際的事件"},{"start":4558.7,"end":4560.7,"text":"就是我們阿拉伯聯合大公國的"},{"start":4560.7,"end":4562.7,"text":"巴拉卡核電廠"},{"start":4562.7,"end":4564.7,"text":"他遭到了無人機的襲擊"},{"start":4564.7,"end":4566.7,"text":"在5月17號的上午"},{"start":4566.7,"end":4569.7,"text":"那這個無人機的攻擊造成什麼結果"},{"start":4569.7,"end":4572.7,"text":"他導致這一座核電廠的發電機起火"},{"start":4572.7,"end":4575.7,"text":"這個事件呢這個國際上包括"},{"start":4575.7,"end":4578.7,"text":"俄羅斯包括美國都來去譴責"},{"start":4578.7,"end":4580.7,"text":"因為他在起源關聯就是"},{"start":4580.7,"end":4583.7,"text":"跟中東衝突有關的這個攻擊事件"},{"start":4583.7,"end":4585.7,"text":"那麼無人機攻擊核電廠"},{"start":4585.7,"end":4588.7,"text":"他造成的後果有可能非常的嚴重"},{"start":4588.7,"end":4592.7,"text":"那這起案件還好是沒有這個傷亡的報告"},{"start":4592.7,"end":4595.7,"text":"國際原子能總署對這個案件"},{"start":4595.7,"end":4598.7,"text":"他特別向聯合國提出了聲明"},{"start":4598.7,"end":4601.7,"text":"在這個聲明當中我們看到幾個警示跟提醒"},{"start":4601.7,"end":4603.7,"text":"第一個他是說這個案件"},{"start":4603.7,"end":4605.7,"text":"他是一座運作中的核電廠"},{"start":4605.7,"end":4607.7,"text":"那他的反應爐儲存了"},{"start":4607.7,"end":4610.7,"text":"儲存了有數千公斤的核燃料"},{"start":4610.7,"end":4613.7,"text":"那裡面也包括沒使用過跟使用過的"},{"start":4613.7,"end":4616.7,"text":"倘若被攻擊直接命中的話"},{"start":4616.7,"end":4620.7,"text":"他可能會導致大量的放射線物質"},{"start":4620.7,"end":4622.7,"text":"釋放在環境當中"},{"start":4622.7,"end":4625.7,"text":"但是就算他不是直接命中"},{"start":4625.7,"end":4629.7,"text":"他如果是攻擊到他的供電陷入"},{"start":4629.7,"end":4632.7,"text":"例如說發電機造成供電的斷電的話"},{"start":4632.7,"end":4635.7,"text":"他有可能會因為核電廠無法運作"},{"start":4635.7,"end":4636.7,"text":"沒有辦法冷卻"},{"start":4636.7,"end":4640.7,"text":"所以會造成他的反應爐的核心"},{"start":4640.7,"end":4643.7,"text":"可能會有融毀這樣的風險"},{"start":4643.7,"end":4646.7,"text":"那麼這個國際原子能總署還說了"},{"start":4646.7,"end":4648.7,"text":"他說如果最壞的情況下"},{"start":4648.7,"end":4651.7,"text":"會需要來疏散跟安置居民"},{"start":4651.7,"end":4653.7,"text":"這個範圍可能是數公里"},{"start":4653.7,"end":4655.7,"text":"甚至是數百公里的範圍之內"},{"start":4655.7,"end":4657.7,"text":"都要來安置跟疏散"},{"start":4657.7,"end":4660.7,"text":"那我們台灣核安會當然是主管"},{"start":4660.7,"end":4662.7,"text":"是我們核能安全"},{"start":4662.7,"end":4665.7,"text":"我們核安會針對核電廠的這個"},{"start":4665.7,"end":4668.7,"text":"如果是面對無人機的這種恐攻"},{"start":4668.7,"end":4671.7,"text":"我們是不是也有這個保安防恐的演練"},{"start":4673.02,"end":4674.02,"text":"是的"},{"start":4674.02,"end":4676.02,"text":"目前這個計畫是怎麼樣來進行"},{"start":4676.02,"end":4678.02,"text":"例如說一年做幾次"},{"start":4678.02,"end":4679.02,"text":"然後包含哪些項目"},{"start":4679.02,"end":4681.02,"text":"有沒有疏散跟安置計畫等等"},{"start":4681.02,"end":4682.02,"text":"能不能說明"},{"start":4684.73,"end":4685.73,"text":"跟委員說明一下"},{"start":4685.73,"end":4687.73,"text":"針對核電廠他每年都會做"},{"start":4687.73,"end":4689.73,"text":"就是保安的反恐演練"},{"start":4689.73,"end":4690.73,"text":"每年一次"},{"start":4690.73,"end":4691.73,"text":"對 每年都有"},{"start":4691.73,"end":4692.73,"text":"每一座核電廠都會做"},{"start":4692.73,"end":4693.73,"text":"每一座都有"},{"start":4693.73,"end":4696.73,"text":"那他有兵器推演跟使兵的演練"},{"start":4696.73,"end":4700.73,"text":"那目前無人機的這種就是應對"},{"start":4700.73,"end":4701.73,"text":"都已經納在裡面"},{"start":4701.73,"end":4705.73,"text":"那電廠目前的就是核子保安的計畫"},{"start":4705.73,"end":4708.73,"text":"也都有把遇到這樣事情的一個應變作業"},{"start":4708.73,"end":4711.73,"text":"他有去盤點他可能遭遇的狀況"},{"start":4711.73,"end":4712.73,"text":"然後可能的風險"},{"start":4712.73,"end":4713.73,"text":"以及他的應對措施"},{"start":4713.73,"end":4716.73,"text":"那都有透過就是歷年來的演習"},{"start":4716.73,"end":4717.73,"text":"去做一個精進這樣"},{"start":4717.73,"end":4719.73,"text":"那至於就是委員剛剛關心的"},{"start":4719.73,"end":4722.73,"text":"如果發生核子事故之後"},{"start":4722.73,"end":4723.73,"text":"場外民眾的這個疏散"},{"start":4723.73,"end":4728.73,"text":"那因為電廠場內他也有緊急應變計畫"},{"start":4728.73,"end":4731.73,"text":"那我們場外就跟地方政府"},{"start":4731.73,"end":4732.73,"text":"也有一起合作"},{"start":4732.73,"end":4735.73,"text":"做緊急應變的一個計畫跟演練"},{"start":4735.73,"end":4738.73,"text":"所以每年的核安演習都會做相關的"},{"start":4738.73,"end":4740.73,"text":"一個場外民眾的防護行動演練"},{"start":4740.73,"end":4742.73,"text":"是這個非常重要"},{"start":4742.73,"end":4743.73,"text":"剛剛有講到說"},{"start":4743.73,"end":4746.73,"text":"如果這種情況要疏散跟安置的話"},{"start":4746.73,"end":4748.73,"text":"在你們的演練計畫當中"},{"start":4748.73,"end":4750.73,"text":"如果以核一核二場來說"},{"start":4750.73,"end":4752.73,"text":"因為這裡台北太近了就在新北"},{"start":4752.73,"end":4753.73,"text":"我們是安置到哪裡"},{"start":4753.73,"end":4755.73,"text":"疏散到哪邊"},{"start":4755.73,"end":4756.73,"text":"有沒有相關的計畫"},{"start":4756.73,"end":4759.73,"text":"大概可以就是安置多少人數"},{"start":4759.73,"end":4761.73,"text":"以核一核二來說"},{"start":4761.73,"end":4763.73,"text":"因為新北市跟基隆市"},{"start":4763.73,"end":4766.73,"text":"他們都有他們的核子事故區域民眾防護計畫"},{"start":4766.73,"end":4769.73,"text":"那所以針對就是核一轄內的居民"},{"start":4769.73,"end":4773.73,"text":"就是新北市就是緊急應變計畫區內的居民"},{"start":4773.73,"end":4775.73,"text":"跟就是基隆市的"},{"start":4775.73,"end":4778.73,"text":"他們都有對應的一個疏散安置的地點"},{"start":4778.73,"end":4779.73,"text":"那像新北市"},{"start":4779.73,"end":4781.73,"text":"他通常都會在16公里外"},{"start":4781.73,"end":4784.73,"text":"就是距離核電廠16公里外的區域"},{"start":4784.73,"end":4787.73,"text":"那新北市他會目前的"},{"start":4787.73,"end":4790.73,"text":"因為他會分裡就是不同的裡別"},{"start":4790.73,"end":4791.73,"text":"他有對應到"},{"start":4791.73,"end":4793.73,"text":"他先規劃一個疏散地點"},{"start":4793.73,"end":4795.73,"text":"那包括疏散過程中的那個路線"},{"start":4795.73,"end":4796.73,"text":"是 以新北來說"},{"start":4796.73,"end":4797.73,"text":"我們之前的演練"},{"start":4797.73,"end":4801.73,"text":"我們疏散的人數是估計多少的人數"},{"start":4801.73,"end":4803.73,"text":"過去新北的演練人數"},{"start":4803.73,"end":4806.73,"text":"因為整體的那個演練人數"},{"start":4806.73,"end":4808.73,"text":"之前有幾千人"},{"start":4808.73,"end":4810.73,"text":"但是可能不是全部都是疏散作業"},{"start":4810.73,"end":4812.73,"text":"他會看他的"},{"start":4812.73,"end":4814.73,"text":"就是因為以這個國際事件來講"},{"start":4814.73,"end":4817.73,"text":"就是幾千人我想一定是不夠的"},{"start":4817.73,"end":4818.73,"text":"那這個沒有關係"},{"start":4818.73,"end":4820.73,"text":"能不能夠這個質詢會後"},{"start":4820.73,"end":4823.73,"text":"來去提供我們這個更細部的資料"},{"start":4823.73,"end":4826.73,"text":"那未來我們也希望這相關的這些演練"},{"start":4826.73,"end":4828.73,"text":"有一些民眾必須要知道的資訊"},{"start":4828.73,"end":4829.73,"text":"也可以要來去公開"},{"start":4829.73,"end":4831.73,"text":"因為這核能安全民眾非常的關心"},{"start":4831.73,"end":4833.73,"text":"那請核安會在這個部分"},{"start":4833.73,"end":4834.73,"text":"一定要去把它做好"},{"start":4834.73,"end":4835.73,"text":"那同時我也想提醒"},{"start":4835.73,"end":4836.73,"text":"因為今天就在今天"},{"start":4836.73,"end":4839.73,"text":"我們財委會正在審我們軍購的預算"},{"start":4839.73,"end":4841.73,"text":"其實呢這個國防安全"},{"start":4841.73,"end":4844.73,"text":"也就關係了我們的核能安全"},{"start":4844.73,"end":4846.73,"text":"一個人這個事件來講"},{"start":4846.73,"end":4848.73,"text":"我們一定要有這個我們國防的能力"},{"start":4848.73,"end":4850.73,"text":"所以這個也要拜託我們立法院同仁"},{"start":4850.73,"end":4852.73,"text":"關心核安大家一起來支持"},{"start":4852.73,"end":4854.73,"text":"那最後因為還有一點時間"},{"start":4854.73,"end":4855.73,"text":"我想要請教"},{"start":4855.73,"end":4857.73,"text":"在這個我們有一個這個"},{"start":4857.73,"end":4860.73,"text":"核安會的風險評估這個總表"},{"start":4860.73,"end":4862.73,"text":"核心這個要求我們來做的"},{"start":4862.73,"end":4864.73,"text":"那我裡面有看到的是"},{"start":4864.73,"end":4867.73,"text":"你們有提到說有一個風險"},{"start":4867.73,"end":4870.73,"text":"你們把它列為風險項目跟風險的情境"},{"start":4870.73,"end":4874.73,"text":"就是說你們之前的有一個預算的項目"},{"start":4874.73,"end":4878.73,"text":"就是遭到我們立法院的刪除"},{"start":4878.73,"end":4879.73,"text":"有一個研究計畫"},{"start":4879.73,"end":4882.73,"text":"是關於這個核能減災的這個研究計畫"},{"start":4882.73,"end":4884.73,"text":"你們把它列為說"},{"start":4884.73,"end":4886.73,"text":"因為這個之前預算"},{"start":4886.73,"end":4887.73,"text":"遭到立法院的刪除"},{"start":4887.73,"end":4890.73,"text":"所以它成為你們的控管風險表裡面的"},{"start":4890.73,"end":4893.73,"text":"這個風險項目跟風險情境之一"},{"start":4893.73,"end":4895.73,"text":"能不能說明這是什麼樣的計畫"},{"start":4895.73,"end":4898.73,"text":"那我們預算收到什麼樣的這個刪減"},{"start":4901.51,"end":4904.51,"text":"我想這幾個第一個是"},{"start":4905.15,"end":4908.15,"text":"有關於我們柴油發電機"},{"start":4908.15,"end":4910.15,"text":"洩漏的事件"},{"start":4910.15,"end":4913.15,"text":"這裡已經根據風險廣告"},{"start":4913.15,"end":4915.15,"text":"第一個建立標準作業"},{"start":4915.15,"end":4918.15,"text":"我沒有問你那個桃園的那個事件"},{"start":4918.15,"end":4919.15,"text":"我問你那個"},{"start":4919.15,"end":4924.15,"text":"最後就是剛講的這個核能減災的研究計畫"},{"start":4924.15,"end":4925.15,"text":"預算刪除這一個案"},{"start":4925.15,"end":4926.15,"text":"說明這一個案就好了"},{"start":4927.78,"end":4929.78,"text":"在你那個風險管控的總表當中"},{"start":4931.95,"end":4933.95,"text":"跟委員報告一下"},{"start":4933.95,"end":4934.95,"text":"那個風險管控就是說"},{"start":4934.95,"end":4936.95,"text":"我們預想最壞的情況"},{"start":4936.95,"end":4938.95,"text":"我們要有最好的因應"},{"start":4938.95,"end":4940.95,"text":"所以包括任何可能的狀況"},{"start":4940.95,"end":4941.95,"text":"我們都要去思考說"},{"start":4941.95,"end":4944.95,"text":"會不會對這個計畫造成影響"},{"start":4944.95,"end":4946.95,"text":"所以不管說刪減計畫"},{"start":4946.95,"end":4948.95,"text":"或者是計畫執行不利什麼"},{"start":4948.95,"end":4949.95,"text":"這都是我們會設想"},{"start":4949.95,"end":4952.95,"text":"它是我們這個計畫執行的風險"},{"start":4952.95,"end":4955.95,"text":"對 沒錯 因為我想減災也是非常的重要"},{"start":4955.95,"end":4958.95,"text":"那麼因為馬上也要這個審查預算了"},{"start":4958.95,"end":4959.95,"text":"所以我要拜託你們"},{"start":4959.95,"end":4961.95,"text":"因為立法院不應該是核能安全的風險"},{"start":4961.95,"end":4964.95,"text":"我們應該是要來核能安全支持的後盾才對"},{"start":4964.95,"end":4967.95,"text":"拜託你們可以多加的跟我們委員來說明"},{"start":4967.95,"end":4970.95,"text":"我們希望這個預算能夠在你們充足"},{"start":4970.95,"end":4972.95,"text":"然後可以執行的情況下來進行"},{"start":4972.95,"end":4974.95,"text":"謝謝委員的支持 謝謝"},{"start":4974.95,"end":4976.95,"text":"謝謝吳佩儀委員的質詢"},{"start":4976.95,"end":4977.95,"text":"請主委回座"},{"start":4977.95,"end":4981.95,"text":"下一位有請吳思堯委員進行詢答"},{"start":5001.14,"end":5002.14,"text":"不好意思"},{"start":5002.14,"end":5003.14,"text":"好 有請主委"},{"start":5004.01,"end":5005.01,"text":"請主委備詢"},{"start":5011.01,"end":5012.01,"text":"好 大家辛苦了"},{"start":5012.01,"end":5016.01,"text":"我今天的質詢會聚焦在重啟核電當中"},{"start":5016.01,"end":5019.01,"text":"現在進行的再運轉的計畫"},{"start":5019.01,"end":5021.01,"text":"我們核安會正在審查"},{"start":5021.01,"end":5024.01,"text":"那我們核電廠的防禦韌性"},{"start":5024.01,"end":5026.01,"text":"是一個最新的課題"},{"start":5026.01,"end":5028.01,"text":"最新的挑戰"},{"start":5028.01,"end":5032.01,"text":"有沒有納入我們的相關的安全檢測呢"},{"start":5032.01,"end":5033.01,"text":"這是我的命題 下一頁"},{"start":5034.14,"end":5037.14,"text":"非核家園從去年5月17號到現在上路"},{"start":5037.14,"end":5040.14,"text":"到今天是第373天"},{"start":5041.54,"end":5043.54,"text":"373天"},{"start":5043.97,"end":5045.97,"text":"各位"},{"start":5045.13,"end":5050.13,"text":"這是我查到今天早上的台電這個報表"},{"start":5050.13,"end":5054.13,"text":"預估尖峰備載容量率今天是綠燈"},{"start":5054.65,"end":5057.65,"text":"綠燈是什麼意思 跟大家說明一下好嗎"},{"start":5058.43,"end":5061.43,"text":"是供電充裕"},{"start":5062.9,"end":5064.9,"text":"供電充裕無虞"},{"start":5064.9,"end":5069.9,"text":"所以是高達23.54%的備轉容量"},{"start":5069.9,"end":5071.9,"text":"所以大家可以安心"},{"start":5071.9,"end":5075.9,"text":"非核家園上路了 台灣沒有缺電"},{"start":5075.9,"end":5079.9,"text":"這是每一天國人都可以公開透明"},{"start":5079.9,"end":5084.9,"text":"去了解關心我們的備載容量"},{"start":5084.9,"end":5086.9,"text":"所以我們要清楚的向社會來論述"},{"start":5086.9,"end":5087.9,"text":"下一頁"},{"start":5088.38,"end":5090.38,"text":"OK"},{"start":5089.19,"end":5093.19,"text":"那以日本福島核災之後的經驗"},{"start":5093.56,"end":5097.56,"text":"在311地震的當下運轉中的核電廠當然暫時都暫停"},{"start":5097.56,"end":5099.56,"text":"事後呢"},{"start":5099.98,"end":5106.98,"text":"2015年日本重新的陸續重啟全面的核電廠的強化安全規格的審查"},{"start":5106.98,"end":5110.98,"text":"他停下來之後要重新恢復運轉"},{"start":5110.98,"end":5113.98,"text":"目前我收集到的數據是這樣"},{"start":5113.98,"end":5116.98,"text":"通過審查恢復運轉的有15座"},{"start":5118.32,"end":5120.32,"text":"審查中的還有8座"},{"start":5120.32,"end":5122.32,"text":"到現在都審查超過10年了"},{"start":5122.32,"end":5125.32,"text":"因為安全的規格要升級能不能夠達標"},{"start":5125.32,"end":5127.32,"text":"持續在審查有8座"},{"start":5127.32,"end":5129.32,"text":"那已經通過審查"},{"start":5129.32,"end":5134.32,"text":"但是日本政府確定不運轉的核電廠有3座"},{"start":5134.32,"end":5138.32,"text":"主要來自於在地的地方政府或是民意的反對"},{"start":5139.14,"end":5144.14,"text":"那明確除役退場的核電廠高達24座"},{"start":5144.14,"end":5147.14,"text":"主要當然是因為安全的因素"},{"start":5147.14,"end":5151.14,"text":"或者是他恢復運轉的經濟成本的考量"},{"start":5151.14,"end":5154.14,"text":"換言之311地震之後"},{"start":5154.14,"end":5156.14,"text":"日本的核電的佔比"},{"start":5156.14,"end":5161.14,"text":"從2010年的25%到現在2025年10年後"},{"start":5161.14,"end":5163.14,"text":"大概是10%"},{"start":5163.14,"end":5165.14,"text":"這是數據告訴我們的"},{"start":5165.14,"end":5168.14,"text":"我要應用在今天的質詢就是要告訴我們"},{"start":5168.14,"end":5169.14,"text":"核安會"},{"start":5169.89,"end":5173.89,"text":"審好審滿安全不能打折"},{"start":5173.89,"end":5176.89,"text":"這整個在運轉的計劃不是流於形式"},{"start":5176.89,"end":5179.89,"text":"更不能夠虛應故事"},{"start":5180.57,"end":5183.57,"text":"所以核安會的工作非常的重要"},{"start":5183.57,"end":5186.57,"text":"重啟核電是道足且長的"},{"start":5186.57,"end":5189.57,"text":"不管是政策決定的三大原則"},{"start":5189.57,"end":5192.57,"text":"核安是不是無虞核廢是不是有解"},{"start":5192.57,"end":5194.57,"text":"社會有沒有共識"},{"start":5194.57,"end":5197.57,"text":"這些都跟核安會至關重要"},{"start":5197.57,"end":5198.57,"text":"你們的業務"},{"start":5199.79,"end":5201.79,"text":"所以說我們在審查的標的"},{"start":5201.79,"end":5204.79,"text":"當然包括廚藝的核電廠老化的狀況"},{"start":5204.79,"end":5206.79,"text":"是不是能夠再運轉"},{"start":5206.79,"end":5207.79,"text":"如果可以再運轉"},{"start":5207.79,"end":5210.79,"text":"可以再展延使用幾年呢"},{"start":5210.79,"end":5212.79,"text":"有沒有符合經濟效益"},{"start":5213.17,"end":5216.17,"text":"還有進行地震的危害分析"},{"start":5216.17,"end":5220.17,"text":"斷層帶會不會影響到核電的再重啟"},{"start":5220.17,"end":5222.17,"text":"這是日本在做"},{"start":5222.17,"end":5224.17,"text":"台灣也在做的事"},{"start":5224.17,"end":5226.17,"text":"但是最新的我今天的主題就是"},{"start":5226.17,"end":5228.17,"text":"我們的在運轉計劃"},{"start":5228.17,"end":5231.17,"text":"有沒有因應國際最新的地緣政治的因素"},{"start":5231.17,"end":5234.17,"text":"納入相關戰爭可能"},{"start":5234.17,"end":5237.17,"text":"引起的防禦韌性的評估"},{"start":5237.17,"end":5239.17,"text":"剛剛前一位委員在質詢"},{"start":5239.17,"end":5241.17,"text":"他是關心在"},{"start":5241.17,"end":5244.17,"text":"如果被戰爭影響了"},{"start":5244.17,"end":5248.17,"text":"那我們的安置 疏散 應變"},{"start":5248.17,"end":5250.17,"text":"有沒有做好整個配套"},{"start":5250.17,"end":5252.17,"text":"而我要進入的主題是"},{"start":5252.17,"end":5256.17,"text":"整個在運轉計劃裡頭的戰爭風險的評估"},{"start":5256.17,"end":5259.17,"text":"我們有沒有納入非常重要的指標"},{"start":5259.17,"end":5261.17,"text":"來 請先簡單回答"},{"start":5263.5,"end":5264.5,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":5264.5,"end":5267.5,"text":"就是目前針對戰爭的風險"},{"start":5267.5,"end":5270.5,"text":"台電公司已經有核電廠面臨軍事威脅下"},{"start":5270.5,"end":5273.5,"text":"確保核安的準備跟應變計劃"},{"start":5273.5,"end":5276.5,"text":"這個計劃不是因為在運轉才有的"},{"start":5276.5,"end":5278.5,"text":"而是在前面 面長就有"},{"start":5278.5,"end":5279.5,"text":"在之前就有"},{"start":5279.5,"end":5281.5,"text":"在之前還是處理的階段"},{"start":5281.5,"end":5282.5,"text":"其實就已經有了"},{"start":5282.5,"end":5284.5,"text":"我要提醒的是什麼 夏業"},{"start":5284.5,"end":5286.5,"text":"當然大家都在關心"},{"start":5286.5,"end":5288.5,"text":"伊朗對阿聯跟美國的"},{"start":5288.5,"end":5291.5,"text":"他瞄準核電廠"},{"start":5291.5,"end":5293.5,"text":"無人機襲擊的這個事件"},{"start":5293.5,"end":5296.5,"text":"剛剛其他委員也在關心"},{"start":5296.5,"end":5299.5,"text":"這確實是國際發生的事件"},{"start":5299.5,"end":5300.5,"text":"要帶給我們的省思"},{"start":5300.5,"end":5304.5,"text":"但我認為你們要嚴格去解釋的"},{"start":5304.5,"end":5306.5,"text":"不是台電本來就有這一套"},{"start":5306.5,"end":5308.5,"text":"而是現在如果重啟的核電廠"},{"start":5308.5,"end":5310.5,"text":"要在重啟的時候"},{"start":5310.5,"end":5314.5,"text":"有沒有去提升相關防禦韌性的規格"},{"start":5314.5,"end":5317.5,"text":"就例如最新的無人機的襲擊"},{"start":5317.5,"end":5319.5,"text":"我們怎麼來因應跟防範"},{"start":5319.5,"end":5320.5,"text":"夏業"},{"start":5321.44,"end":5323.44,"text":"而不只剛剛說的伊朗"},{"start":5323.44,"end":5325.44,"text":"最新的戰士核電廠成了"},{"start":5325.44,"end":5327.44,"text":"被攻擊鎖定的工具之外"},{"start":5327.44,"end":5329.44,"text":"其實早在烏爾戰爭"},{"start":5329.44,"end":5333.44,"text":"烏克蘭的扎波羅熱核電廠"},{"start":5333.44,"end":5335.44,"text":"就被俄羅斯軍隊控制"},{"start":5335.44,"end":5337.44,"text":"全面中斷運作到現在"},{"start":5337.44,"end":5339.44,"text":"歷經多次的炮擊"},{"start":5339.44,"end":5341.44,"text":"以及無人機的襲擊"},{"start":5341.44,"end":5345.44,"text":"它不只是成為直接攻擊的target"},{"start":5345.44,"end":5348.44,"text":"它更可以因此來造成"},{"start":5348.44,"end":5350.44,"text":"經濟運轉的恐慌"},{"start":5350.44,"end":5352.44,"text":"電力供應的恐慌"},{"start":5352.44,"end":5354.44,"text":"具有強大的心理震懾"},{"start":5354.44,"end":5359.44,"text":"的這一個重要的戰爭操作目標"},{"start":5360.12,"end":5364.12,"text":"更可能讓雙方將核能安全"},{"start":5364.12,"end":5367.12,"text":"或能源安全可以作為外交的博弈"},{"start":5367.12,"end":5369.12,"text":"跟輿論戰的焦點"},{"start":5369.12,"end":5371.12,"text":"所以說我不知道"},{"start":5371.12,"end":5373.12,"text":"我還沒有看到台電在運轉進化"},{"start":5373.12,"end":5375.12,"text":"它其實也相對的專業"},{"start":5375.12,"end":5377.12,"text":"我也不一定能夠完全的理解"},{"start":5377.12,"end":5379.12,"text":"但是我要提醒的是夏業"},{"start":5379.26,"end":5379.76,"text":"夏業"},{"start":5381.15,"end":5383.15,"text":"這是國際的期刊"},{"start":5383.15,"end":5385.15,"text":"跟我們的學者的研究"},{"start":5385.15,"end":5387.15,"text":"核電廠對於炮火攻擊的威脅"},{"start":5387.15,"end":5389.15,"text":"可能引發大規模放射性的污染"},{"start":5389.15,"end":5391.15,"text":"電力如果中斷的風險"},{"start":5391.15,"end":5393.15,"text":"裸露了燃料棒"},{"start":5393.15,"end":5396.15,"text":"爐心毀損釋放放射性物質怎麼辦"},{"start":5396.15,"end":5399.15,"text":"當然還包括燃料冷卻池的風險"},{"start":5399.15,"end":5401.15,"text":"不管是使用中"},{"start":5401.15,"end":5404.15,"text":"或者是沒有使用中的這些燃料棒"},{"start":5404.15,"end":5407.15,"text":"它都有相當高的風險"},{"start":5407.15,"end":5408.15,"text":"所以最後"},{"start":5408.38,"end":5408.88,"text":"夏業"},{"start":5409.89,"end":5410.89,"text":"我建議你們"},{"start":5411.84,"end":5413.84,"text":"這是核安會自己要做的事"},{"start":5413.84,"end":5415.84,"text":"不只是因應核電的重啟"},{"start":5415.84,"end":5417.84,"text":"其實核電廠的"},{"start":5417.84,"end":5420.84,"text":"被地緣政治在戰事引起的風險"},{"start":5420.84,"end":5423.84,"text":"不是只有重啟運轉的核電廠"},{"start":5423.84,"end":5426.84,"text":"其實原本的核設施"},{"start":5426.84,"end":5429.84,"text":"包括我們的廢棄物的儲存處"},{"start":5429.84,"end":5431.84,"text":"都會受到戰爭的風險"},{"start":5431.84,"end":5433.84,"text":"我要求你們三件事"},{"start":5433.84,"end":5434.84,"text":"第一個"},{"start":5435.89,"end":5438.89,"text":"戰時的核設施的安全治理"},{"start":5438.89,"end":5440.89,"text":"不是只有核安會能做到"},{"start":5440.89,"end":5441.89,"text":"跨部會"},{"start":5441.89,"end":5443.89,"text":"國防經濟能源部門都要整合"},{"start":5443.89,"end":5444.89,"text":"第二件事情"},{"start":5444.89,"end":5445.89,"text":"因應地緣政治"},{"start":5445.89,"end":5447.89,"text":"國際多邊的安全合作"},{"start":5447.89,"end":5449.89,"text":"就是強化跟IAEA"},{"start":5449.89,"end":5452.89,"text":"國際原子能總署的即時通報的程序"},{"start":5452.89,"end":5453.89,"text":"第三個"},{"start":5453.89,"end":5454.89,"text":"跟上國際"},{"start":5454.89,"end":5456.89,"text":"我們的核設施的安全韌性"},{"start":5456.89,"end":5457.89,"text":"都要升級"},{"start":5457.89,"end":5458.89,"text":"我要再次強調"},{"start":5458.89,"end":5461.89,"text":"不是只針對台電送出的"},{"start":5461.89,"end":5462.89,"text":"要除役的核電廠"},{"start":5462.89,"end":5464.89,"text":"能不能夠重啟的這一個"},{"start":5464.89,"end":5466.89,"text":"在運轉的計畫安全評估"},{"start":5466.89,"end":5470.89,"text":"而是所有台灣現存的核設施即便除役"},{"start":5470.89,"end":5474.89,"text":"它都掩藏著可能因應地緣政治戰爭的風險"},{"start":5474.89,"end":5476.89,"text":"這是我今天拋出來的最後一個"},{"start":5478.26,"end":5479.26,"text":"美國政府"},{"start":5479.26,"end":5480.26,"text":"美國的"},{"start":5481.17,"end":5484.17,"text":"共和黨的參議員也提出一個具體的法案"},{"start":5484.17,"end":5485.17,"text":"我想"},{"start":5485.17,"end":5488.17,"text":"你們也可以提供專家的意見給立法院"},{"start":5488.17,"end":5491.17,"text":"也就是美國4月30號最新的共和黨參議員"},{"start":5491.17,"end":5493.17,"text":"這個Tom Cotton他所提的"},{"start":5493.17,"end":5496.17,"text":"關鍵基礎設施空域防衛法"},{"start":5497.32,"end":5498.32,"text":"因為"},{"start":5498.32,"end":5503.32,"text":"如果關鍵基礎設施沒有合法的權力的授權"},{"start":5503.32,"end":5506.32,"text":"那對於無人機的"},{"start":5506.32,"end":5509.32,"text":"能不能夠主動去啟動防禦"},{"start":5509.32,"end":5510.32,"text":"第二個"},{"start":5510.32,"end":5514.32,"text":"為關鍵基礎設施來設置必要的撥款的計畫"},{"start":5514.32,"end":5520.32,"text":"用於購買反制無人機的一些新進的技術跟設備"},{"start":5520.32,"end":5523.32,"text":"那我們用國際的經驗讓我們想想"},{"start":5523.32,"end":5525.32,"text":"現在其實是一個好的時機"},{"start":5525.32,"end":5527.32,"text":"在運轉計畫送出來"},{"start":5527.32,"end":5530.32,"text":"除役的核電廠能不能夠重啟"},{"start":5530.32,"end":5532.32,"text":"還有過恩觀展恩將"},{"start":5532.32,"end":5535.32,"text":"但是對於台灣所有現存的核設施"},{"start":5535.32,"end":5537.32,"text":"的強化無人機的襲擊"},{"start":5537.32,"end":5539.32,"text":"以及防禦的功能"},{"start":5539.32,"end":5542.32,"text":"乃至於剛剛吳佩儀委員所提到的"},{"start":5542.32,"end":5546.32,"text":"所有的假設受到戰爭的波及"},{"start":5546.32,"end":5548.32,"text":"安置疏散應變"},{"start":5548.32,"end":5553.32,"text":"這是整套全方位的配套都要細緻"},{"start":5553.32,"end":5555.32,"text":"主委是不是say yes"},{"start":5555.32,"end":5557.32,"text":"可以往這三方面我的建議"},{"start":5557.32,"end":5559.32,"text":"來做更多專業上的處理"},{"start":5559.32,"end":5561.32,"text":"這很好謝謝委員"},{"start":5561.32,"end":5564.32,"text":"那在台電捨查他的再運轉計畫的時候"},{"start":5564.32,"end":5566.32,"text":"也要強化對於戰爭"},{"start":5566.32,"end":5570.32,"text":"戰事風險防禦韌性的這一個指標"},{"start":5570.32,"end":5571.32,"text":"好嗎"},{"start":5571.32,"end":5573.32,"text":"這個你們也會強化這方面的作為"},{"start":5573.32,"end":5575.32,"text":"好OK 謝謝委員"},{"start":5577.37,"end":5579.37,"text":"謝謝吳思瑤委員的質詢"},{"start":5579.37,"end":5581.37,"text":"請主委回座"},{"start":5581.37,"end":5585.37,"text":"下一位我們有請郭育晴委員進行詢答"},{"start":5592.49,"end":5594.49,"text":"好謝謝主席有請主委"},{"start":5594.49,"end":5596.49,"text":"請主委"},{"start":5603.66,"end":5604.66,"text":"主委早安"},{"start":5604.66,"end":5605.66,"text":"委員好"},{"start":5605.66,"end":5608.66,"text":"好我想今天我們去教這三個問題"},{"start":5608.66,"end":5610.66,"text":"第一個問題我想要問的是重啟"},{"start":5610.66,"end":5612.66,"text":"這個核三的一個風險的溝通"},{"start":5612.66,"end":5614.66,"text":"跟核安會我們角色的定位"},{"start":5614.66,"end":5617.66,"text":"然後第二個問題我想要問的是"},{"start":5617.66,"end":5619.66,"text":"核三廠如果碰到了核災的"},{"start":5619.66,"end":5622.66,"text":"撤離一個安全的一個整備的一個狀況"},{"start":5622.66,"end":5626.66,"text":"再來第三就是我們的這個輻射防護學習網"},{"start":5626.66,"end":5629.66,"text":"是不是只停留在形式上的建置"},{"start":5629.66,"end":5630.66,"text":"這三大問題"},{"start":5630.66,"end":5632.66,"text":"我們來看一下今天時間"},{"start":5632.66,"end":5634.66,"text":"好那首先先講到第一個問題"},{"start":5634.66,"end":5636.66,"text":"我想這個核三重啟"},{"start":5636.66,"end":5639.66,"text":"我想核安會不能只是一個技術審查者"},{"start":5639.66,"end":5643.66,"text":"他應該更是一個社會信任的一個把關者"},{"start":5643.66,"end":5648.66,"text":"那我知道這個4月28號我們有做地方的說明會"},{"start":5648.66,"end":5650.66,"text":"那地方的居民反應"},{"start":5650.66,"end":5652.66,"text":"有很多所謂的這個核心上的一個問題"},{"start":5652.66,"end":5656.66,"text":"那麼包含就是我們的恆春活動斷層的一個風險"},{"start":5656.66,"end":5660.66,"text":"那再來就是我們的核廢料的長期儲存的一個安全"},{"start":5660.66,"end":5664.66,"text":"再來就是在運轉之後的監測跟風險的一個管理"},{"start":5664.66,"end":5667.66,"text":"那既然民間有這麼多的一個聲音"},{"start":5667.66,"end":5670.66,"text":"但是那天大部分的民眾感受到"},{"start":5670.66,"end":5673.66,"text":"是我們都在談所謂的在運轉"},{"start":5673.66,"end":5675.66,"text":"以及地方回饋的一些問題"},{"start":5675.66,"end":5679.66,"text":"那麼如果是讓核三在運轉的這個議題上"},{"start":5679.66,"end":5681.66,"text":"要如何讓民眾相信"},{"start":5681.66,"end":5684.66,"text":"我們的核安會不是只有站在推動的立場"},{"start":5684.66,"end":5689.66,"text":"而是要真正站在所謂的監管跟風險把關的一個位置"},{"start":5689.66,"end":5690.66,"text":"那麼目前"},{"start":5691.43,"end":5694.43,"text":"我們看到很多的這個資訊公開的方式"},{"start":5694.43,"end":5697.43,"text":"是幾百頁的一個技術的報告"},{"start":5697.43,"end":5699.43,"text":"但我就要問了"},{"start":5699.43,"end":5701.43,"text":"一般的居民真的看得懂嗎"},{"start":5701.43,"end":5704.43,"text":"是不是能夠有更白化的一個轉譯"},{"start":5704.43,"end":5706.43,"text":"還有重點的摘要"},{"start":5706.43,"end":5708.43,"text":"另外是圖像式的一個說明"},{"start":5708.43,"end":5709.43,"text":"這是我的建議了"},{"start":5709.43,"end":5711.43,"text":"那即使是我們的資訊公開了"},{"start":5711.43,"end":5714.43,"text":"民眾也未必能夠真正的理解"},{"start":5714.43,"end":5718.43,"text":"所以我剛剛在講這個程序雖然有完成"},{"start":5718.43,"end":5722.43,"text":"但是不代表我們跟社會有共識"},{"start":5722.43,"end":5724.43,"text":"或者是我們的社區的居民"},{"start":5724.43,"end":5726.43,"text":"他有所謂的這個參與感"},{"start":5726.43,"end":5728.43,"text":"這是兩件事情"},{"start":5728.43,"end":5730.43,"text":"那再來我真的建議核安會"},{"start":5730.43,"end":5732.43,"text":"除了這個技術的完整的一個資訊"},{"start":5732.43,"end":5734.43,"text":"同時也應該要提供"},{"start":5734.43,"end":5735.43,"text":"就像我剛剛講的"},{"start":5735.43,"end":5738.43,"text":"白化紋一點點的這個風險的說明"},{"start":5738.43,"end":5740.43,"text":"再來重點的摘要"},{"start":5740.43,"end":5742.43,"text":"再來圖像化的一個資料"},{"start":5742.43,"end":5746.43,"text":"還有一定要讓所謂的在地的居民"},{"start":5746.43,"end":5749.43,"text":"去表達所謂的FAQ這樣子的一個"},{"start":5749.43,"end":5753.43,"text":"這個我們去草擬這樣子的一個FAQ"},{"start":5753.43,"end":5754.43,"text":"這樣子的一個順序"},{"start":5754.43,"end":5756.43,"text":"那我想能夠降低理解的門檻"},{"start":5756.43,"end":5759.43,"text":"才能夠得到所謂的資訊的一個平權"},{"start":5759.43,"end":5760.43,"text":"這是第一個問題"},{"start":5760.43,"end":5765.43,"text":"第二個那未來在審查相關的一個溝通的機制"},{"start":5765.43,"end":5768.43,"text":"我們是不是可以更實質的納入當地居民"},{"start":5768.43,"end":5770.43,"text":"還有公民團體"},{"start":5770.43,"end":5772.43,"text":"還有利害關係人的參與"},{"start":5772.43,"end":5774.43,"text":"尤其是針對我剛剛提到了"},{"start":5774.43,"end":5776.43,"text":"恆春活動的一個斷層最新的評估"},{"start":5776.43,"end":5780.43,"text":"還有高低放射性的核廢料的風險"},{"start":5780.43,"end":5783.43,"text":"再來再運轉的安全監測"},{"start":5783.43,"end":5786.43,"text":"這是是不是可以更加的聚焦好請教"},{"start":5787.69,"end":5791.69,"text":"謝謝委員建議非常好"},{"start":5791.69,"end":5795.69,"text":"我們會繼續滾動去檢視回應"},{"start":5797.09,"end":5801.09,"text":"所以我剛剛所給的建議"},{"start":5801.09,"end":5805.09,"text":"我相信這個和安會應該是可以再多做一些準備"},{"start":5805.09,"end":5809.09,"text":"而不是要居民去看那一整份幾百頁"},{"start":5809.09,"end":5812.09,"text":"然後都是一些所謂的比較專業性的一些"},{"start":5812.09,"end":5814.09,"text":"這樣子的一個問題"},{"start":5814.09,"end":5817.09,"text":"我想這個可能對居民來講理解上會有一些難度"},{"start":5817.09,"end":5821.09,"text":"我們會持續運到能夠用更白化更圖像式的方式"},{"start":5821.09,"end":5823.09,"text":"讓大家更容易了解"},{"start":5823.09,"end":5824.09,"text":"那今天因為時間關係"},{"start":5824.09,"end":5825.09,"text":"第二題我直接跳了"},{"start":5825.09,"end":5828.09,"text":"那我想這個核散廠的一個撤離跟安全的準備"},{"start":5828.09,"end":5831.09,"text":"其實剛剛有幾位委員也特別提到"},{"start":5831.09,"end":5834.09,"text":"我們現在的疏散的量能真的足夠嗎"},{"start":5834.09,"end":5835.09,"text":"這是我要問的"},{"start":5835.09,"end":5839.09,"text":"我想我們不是只有平常在運轉的安全我們要顧慮"},{"start":5839.09,"end":5843.09,"text":"另外其實也包含一些所謂的極端事故之下"},{"start":5843.09,"end":5845.09,"text":"人民能不能夠安全的一個撤離"},{"start":5845.09,"end":5849.09,"text":"因為目前我們知道這個EPZ的涵蓋的一個範圍"},{"start":5849.09,"end":5851.09,"text":"有19個村裡"},{"start":5852.09,"end":5853.09,"text":"對不對"},{"start":5853.09,"end":5856.09,"text":"那超過1萬3000戶的一個居民"},{"start":5856.09,"end":5859.09,"text":"那因為恆春半島其實他的位處"},{"start":5859.09,"end":5860.09,"text":"這個地理的一個條件"},{"start":5860.09,"end":5862.09,"text":"他的交通比較特殊"},{"start":5862.09,"end":5865.09,"text":"再來連外的道路也是比較有限"},{"start":5865.09,"end":5868.09,"text":"那另外如果碰到所謂的觀光的旺季"},{"start":5868.09,"end":5870.09,"text":"車流量都非常的龐大"},{"start":5870.09,"end":5872.09,"text":"但是我們假設"},{"start":5872.09,"end":5875.09,"text":"如果地震、豪雨道路中斷"},{"start":5875.09,"end":5879.09,"text":"還有大量的觀光的車潮同時發生"},{"start":5879.09,"end":5882.09,"text":"請問我們有撤離的計畫嗎"},{"start":5882.09,"end":5884.09,"text":"那這個計畫足夠嗎"},{"start":5884.09,"end":5887.09,"text":"這個部分可不可以請簡單說明"},{"start":5887.09,"end":5888.09,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":5888.09,"end":5891.09,"text":"針對就是發生核災這個緊急應變計畫"},{"start":5891.09,"end":5894.09,"text":"針對委員關心的疏散撤離的部分"},{"start":5894.09,"end":5897.09,"text":"因為我們會採分階段分時的方式進行"},{"start":5897.09,"end":5900.09,"text":"在一開始會先將遊客先勸離"},{"start":5900.09,"end":5902.09,"text":"因為他們不是在地的民眾"},{"start":5902.09,"end":5904.09,"text":"所以會請他們先離開"},{"start":5904.09,"end":5906.09,"text":"那後面如果需要疏散的話"},{"start":5906.09,"end":5908.09,"text":"也會先從弱勢民眾"},{"start":5908.09,"end":5910.09,"text":"就是委員所關心的這些高風險族群"},{"start":5910.09,"end":5912.09,"text":"因為他們需要的疏散時間比較久"},{"start":5912.09,"end":5915.09,"text":"所以會先從他們開始做優先的疏散"},{"start":5915.09,"end":5918.09,"text":"因為我們知道在整個所有的範圍之內"},{"start":5918.09,"end":5920.09,"text":"就是那個一萬三千多戶的一個人家"},{"start":5920.09,"end":5922.09,"text":"其實有很多是獨居的長者"},{"start":5922.09,"end":5924.09,"text":"再來很多是行動不便者"},{"start":5924.09,"end":5928.09,"text":"那另外還有一些比較需要特殊照顧的一些居民"},{"start":5928.09,"end":5931.09,"text":"那我想如果我們有沒有納入所謂的"},{"start":5931.09,"end":5933.09,"text":"極端負荷式的一個災害"},{"start":5933.09,"end":5935.09,"text":"做情境上的一個壓力測試"},{"start":5935.09,"end":5937.09,"text":"這個部分我們做過了嗎"},{"start":5937.38,"end":5939.38,"text":"報告委員在目前的兵器"},{"start":5939.38,"end":5942.38,"text":"就是每年的荷蘭演習的演練當中"},{"start":5942.38,"end":5946.38,"text":"在兵器隊員都會做相關的一個盤點跟測試"},{"start":5946.38,"end":5950.38,"text":"那這些盤點是即時的名單的更新嗎"},{"start":5950.38,"end":5952.38,"text":"對因為都會有地方政府"},{"start":5952.38,"end":5954.38,"text":"因為我們的荷蘭演習是中央地方"},{"start":5954.38,"end":5957.38,"text":"因為每年都會做荷蘭演習"},{"start":5957.38,"end":5959.38,"text":"另外如果沒有"},{"start":5959.38,"end":5961.38,"text":"當年沒有做荷蘭演習的地方政府"},{"start":5961.38,"end":5964.38,"text":"他也會做居民的一個疏散的宣告"},{"start":5964.38,"end":5967.38,"text":"那我們的通訊的設備的資源有嗎"},{"start":5967.38,"end":5969.38,"text":"通訊的設備"},{"start":5969.38,"end":5971.38,"text":"我想要提的就是說"},{"start":5971.38,"end":5974.38,"text":"這方面的一個備援的一個機制"},{"start":5974.38,"end":5977.38,"text":"那包含我剛剛講的即時的名冊的一個更新"},{"start":5977.38,"end":5980.38,"text":"然後再來就是我們的通訊設備的一個更新"},{"start":5980.38,"end":5983.38,"text":"再來還包含接送能力的調度"},{"start":5983.38,"end":5984.38,"text":"我想我們在談的是"},{"start":5984.38,"end":5988.38,"text":"當災害來臨時我們有沒有應變的韌性"},{"start":5988.38,"end":5990.38,"text":"韌性這兩個字其實還蠻重要的"},{"start":5990.38,"end":5992.38,"text":"提供給我們荷蘭會作為參考"},{"start":5992.38,"end":5993.38,"text":"第三個問題"},{"start":5993.38,"end":5997.38,"text":"因為我們的這個輻射法務學習網"},{"start":5997.38,"end":5999.38,"text":"其實是不是只有建制"},{"start":5999.38,"end":6001.38,"text":"而要讓人民真的看得懂"},{"start":6001.38,"end":6004.38,"text":"這個部分其實也攸關我們的一些所謂的"},{"start":6004.38,"end":6007.38,"text":"在整個所有內容上的一個轉型"},{"start":6007.38,"end":6010.38,"text":"因為現在這個平台上有21門的專業的科目"},{"start":6010.38,"end":6013.38,"text":"那6門的這個科普的課程還有互動遊戲等等"},{"start":6013.38,"end":6018.38,"text":"那我想輻射的議題本來就比較容易讓民眾焦慮"},{"start":6018.38,"end":6023.38,"text":"因為如果我們的教材還是偏重在所謂的一些專業的一個術語"},{"start":6023.38,"end":6027.38,"text":"把原來的內容數位化那豈是另外一種門檻"},{"start":6027.38,"end":6028.38,"text":"雖然我們有設KPI"},{"start":6028.38,"end":6032.38,"text":"這個KPI好像是7000人次"},{"start":6032.38,"end":6033.38,"text":"這是我們的KPI"},{"start":6033.38,"end":6036.38,"text":"但是如果是要讓一般民眾都能夠瞭解"},{"start":6036.38,"end":6038.38,"text":"這個KPI的設置是不是有點低了"},{"start":6038.38,"end":6039.38,"text":"請教"},{"start":6041.72,"end":6046.72,"text":"報告委員就是我們這個學習網其實是有兩大的一個目的"},{"start":6046.72,"end":6051.72,"text":"第一個就是要讓我們的輻射從業人員能夠做職場的再教育"},{"start":6051.72,"end":6055.72,"text":"所以精準正確然後讓他有那個積分"},{"start":6055.72,"end":6058.72,"text":"所以這個KPI只是否我們的專業人員嗎"},{"start":6058.72,"end":6062.72,"text":"這邊還是一般的社會民眾其實他們應該也要"},{"start":6062.72,"end":6063.72,"text":"我們目前的KPI是把它混合起來"},{"start":6063.72,"end":6066.72,"text":"因為另外一個我們學習網還有一個就是要"},{"start":6066.72,"end":6069.72,"text":"也就是要發揮分眾的這種科普教育"},{"start":6069.72,"end":6073.72,"text":"所以目前我們確實我們的KPI是把它給miss起來"},{"start":6073.72,"end":6076.72,"text":"所以後續我們就會參照委員的一個意見"},{"start":6076.72,"end":6081.72,"text":"因為我們後台其實有在做一些類似玩客率輻射作業人員的"},{"start":6081.72,"end":6083.72,"text":"我給你三項建議"},{"start":6083.72,"end":6087.72,"text":"第一項其實我們要檢討的其實除了這個績效的一個指標"},{"start":6087.72,"end":6089.72,"text":"其實還不只要看流量"},{"start":6089.72,"end":6091.72,"text":"而是要看大家真正的參與的一個程度"},{"start":6091.72,"end":6096.72,"text":"那第二個部分其實真的也希望我們能夠建立這個大眾化的轉譯"},{"start":6096.72,"end":6099.72,"text":"跟所謂的使用者的這樣子的一個計算的一個機制"},{"start":6099.72,"end":6102.72,"text":"納入所謂的科普跟數位設計的一個專業"},{"start":6102.72,"end":6105.72,"text":"而不是只是讓我們看到是所謂的技術審查"},{"start":6105.72,"end":6106.72,"text":"這是第二點"},{"start":6106.72,"end":6110.72,"text":"第三點我們要提出一些比較實質的一個效應的一個驗證"},{"start":6110.72,"end":6113.72,"text":"包含玩客率使用者的回饋"},{"start":6113.72,"end":6115.72,"text":"還有不同年齡層的使用的狀況"},{"start":6115.72,"end":6118.72,"text":"還有互動的參考的一個成果"},{"start":6118.72,"end":6121.72,"text":"這三點其實提供給你們做一些參考"},{"start":6121.72,"end":6124.72,"text":"我想人民要的不是只有程序有在做"},{"start":6124.72,"end":6126.72,"text":"而是我們的資訊要能夠被理解"},{"start":6126.72,"end":6128.72,"text":"然後再來我們的風險能夠參與"},{"start":6128.72,"end":6130.72,"text":"還有我們的安全能夠被信任"},{"start":6130.72,"end":6134.72,"text":"這是我相信這也算是核安會最重要的一個使命跟宗旨"},{"start":6134.72,"end":6135.72,"text":"好以上"},{"start":6135.72,"end":6136.72,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":6136.72,"end":6137.72,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":6137.72,"end":6140.72,"text":"好謝謝郭育清委員的質詢"},{"start":6140.72,"end":6141.72,"text":"請主委回座"},{"start":6141.72,"end":6145.72,"text":"下一位我們有請林宜菁委員進行詢答"},{"start":6151.35,"end":6153.35,"text":"謝謝主席有請主委"},{"start":6158.83,"end":6159.83,"text":"主委長"},{"start":6159.83,"end":6160.83,"text":"委員好"},{"start":6161.23,"end":6164.23,"text":"這個上個月的月底我們核安會有在恆春政工所"},{"start":6164.23,"end":6167.23,"text":"來舉辦這個地方說明會"},{"start":6167.23,"end":6172.23,"text":"那很多的地方居民跟這個民間團體也都有發表意見"},{"start":6172.23,"end":6174.23,"text":"不過單單只舉辦說明會"},{"start":6174.23,"end":6177.23,"text":"是否就叫完備社會溝通"},{"start":6177.23,"end":6179.23,"text":"我是存疑的"},{"start":6179.23,"end":6183.23,"text":"畢竟我覺得能源政策是攸關整個國家的發展"},{"start":6183.23,"end":6184.23,"text":"所以核能安全"},{"start":6184.23,"end":6190.23,"text":"它也當然也與全國這個潛在受影響的對象大大相關"},{"start":6190.23,"end":6194.23,"text":"所以本席認為我們這個在運轉計畫審查的同時"},{"start":6194.23,"end":6199.23,"text":"我們應該持續在辦理這個多次的說明會"},{"start":6199.23,"end":6202.23,"text":"來確實參考民眾的意見"},{"start":6202.23,"end":6207.23,"text":"那首先本席要加以詢問的就是資訊公開與轉譯"},{"start":6207.23,"end":6210.23,"text":"這點核安會是否有落實"},{"start":6210.23,"end":6211.23,"text":"因為根據這個"},{"start":6213.93,"end":6215.93,"text":"它所訂定的這個原則"},{"start":6215.93,"end":6219.93,"text":"核能安全管制在進行公眾溝通的時候"},{"start":6219.93,"end":6222.93,"text":"其實它要落實有三個原則"},{"start":6222.93,"end":6224.93,"text":"一個就是主動資訊公開"},{"start":6224.93,"end":6226.93,"text":"一個是易於理解"},{"start":6226.93,"end":6229.93,"text":"一個就是建立信任跟可追溯性"},{"start":6229.93,"end":6231.93,"text":"這三個原則"},{"start":6231.93,"end":6236.93,"text":"所以我們看到核安會其實在我們在運轉審查的相關資訊公告"},{"start":6236.93,"end":6238.93,"text":"有建立這個網站"},{"start":6238.93,"end":6240.93,"text":"可是網站所記載的"},{"start":6240.93,"end":6243.93,"text":"還有在地方上所周知民眾的這些內容"},{"start":6243.93,"end":6246.93,"text":"是否有落實完整的資訊公開"},{"start":6246.93,"end":6248.93,"text":"這是最重要的"},{"start":6248.93,"end":6251.93,"text":"那容易讓人理解這件事情"},{"start":6251.93,"end":6253.93,"text":"我覺得為什麼這麼說"},{"start":6253.93,"end":6257.93,"text":"因為核能安全審查其實都是專業的術語"},{"start":6257.93,"end":6261.93,"text":"那可是民眾唯一關心的就是安全不安全"},{"start":6261.93,"end":6264.93,"text":"所以如果說連這個簡單的轉譯"},{"start":6264.93,"end":6267.93,"text":"這個專業的名詞給民眾知道"},{"start":6267.93,"end":6271.93,"text":"甚至是所謂用淺顯易懂的方式"},{"start":6271.93,"end":6274.93,"text":"庶民語言來說明這個風險"},{"start":6274.93,"end":6276.93,"text":"讓在地居民能充分理解"},{"start":6276.93,"end":6279.93,"text":"我覺得這種基本要求如果做不到"},{"start":6279.93,"end":6282.93,"text":"那本席認為其實沒有資格談核能"},{"start":6282.93,"end":6284.93,"text":"使用核能這件事"},{"start":6284.93,"end":6286.93,"text":"所以本席在這裡要強烈要求"},{"start":6286.93,"end":6290.93,"text":"就核安會不是說只要辦多場的說明會而已"},{"start":6290.93,"end":6295.93,"text":"我們要設計出一套讓人容易理解的這種政策說明"},{"start":6295.93,"end":6299.93,"text":"還有就是潛在受影響的居民"},{"start":6299.93,"end":6303.93,"text":"他應該要充分理解我們政策宣導的內容"},{"start":6303.93,"end":6305.93,"text":"所以以上我剛說的這些要求"},{"start":6305.93,"end":6308.93,"text":"核安會你認為你目前做到多少"},{"start":6308.93,"end":6310.93,"text":"那還可以再進進哪些部分"},{"start":6312.36,"end":6314.36,"text":"好"},{"start":6313.79,"end":6316.79,"text":"我覺得這個溝通是非常重要的"},{"start":6316.79,"end":6318.79,"text":"我也講的"},{"start":6318.79,"end":6321.79,"text":"我覺得我們還有很大的進步空間"},{"start":6321.79,"end":6325.79,"text":"比如說淺顯易懂的文字上的說明"},{"start":6325.79,"end":6327.79,"text":"或者多用一些圖表"},{"start":6327.79,"end":6330.79,"text":"避免用專有名詞"},{"start":6330.79,"end":6332.79,"text":"這些我們都會持續進進"},{"start":6332.79,"end":6335.79,"text":"我們做第一場之後我們有回來檢討"},{"start":6335.79,"end":6337.79,"text":"所以一定要做到"},{"start":6338.02,"end":6340.02,"text":"有效的溝通讓大家放心"},{"start":6340.02,"end":6343.02,"text":"這是我們持續做的目標"},{"start":6343.02,"end":6345.02,"text":"所以你們會再努力"},{"start":6345.02,"end":6350.02,"text":"朝這個讓庶民語言讓民眾理解的這種方向去前進"},{"start":6350.02,"end":6352.02,"text":"對我們會往這方面走"},{"start":6352.02,"end":6355.02,"text":"至於我剛說的就是說我們所謂的這個"},{"start":6355.02,"end":6359.02,"text":"受潛勢影響的這些地方"},{"start":6359.02,"end":6361.02,"text":"包括你家恆春有辦了沒"},{"start":6361.02,"end":6364.02,"text":"那車城滿洲要辦說明會嗎"},{"start":6364.02,"end":6365.02,"text":"核安會有沒有規劃"},{"start":6366.26,"end":6368.26,"text":"我想在附近"},{"start":6369.92,"end":6371.92,"text":"附近都在鄰近而已"},{"start":6371.92,"end":6375.92,"text":"雖然核電廠是在恆春"},{"start":6375.92,"end":6377.92,"text":"可是它鄰近"},{"start":6377.92,"end":6379.92,"text":"它車城滿洲都在隔壁而已"},{"start":6379.92,"end":6382.92,"text":"其實到時候如果發生意外的話"},{"start":6382.92,"end":6383.92,"text":"或者發生事情的話"},{"start":6383.92,"end":6386.92,"text":"其實車城滿洲是很容易"},{"start":6386.92,"end":6388.92,"text":"這個吳立華委員最清楚了"},{"start":6388.92,"end":6390.92,"text":"是連帶急受影響的"},{"start":6390.92,"end":6393.92,"text":"那這個你們有打算去那邊辦說明會嗎"},{"start":6393.92,"end":6394.92,"text":"有的"},{"start":6394.76,"end":6397.76,"text":"跟委員說明我們4月28日"},{"start":6397.76,"end":6399.76,"text":"雖然是在恆春辦說明會"},{"start":6399.76,"end":6402.76,"text":"我們也有邀請車城滿母丹鄉"},{"start":6402.76,"end":6403.76,"text":"是"},{"start":6403.76,"end":6406.76,"text":"跟相關的鄰近的鄉鎮都有邀請他"},{"start":6406.76,"end":6410.76,"text":"那另外我們也在當天也有開直播"},{"start":6410.76,"end":6414.76,"text":"所以雖然沒有辦法到場的關心的民眾"},{"start":6414.76,"end":6418.76,"text":"他也可以透過直播的方式去瞭解整個議題"},{"start":6418.76,"end":6419.76,"text":"以上說明"},{"start":6419.76,"end":6420.76,"text":"我先補充一下"},{"start":6420.76,"end":6421.76,"text":"因為有的抱怨說"},{"start":6421.76,"end":6423.76,"text":"很多人不知道有這樣公聽會"},{"start":6423.76,"end":6428.76,"text":"我們下一次會在值班前很久會加強宣傳"},{"start":6428.76,"end":6429.76,"text":"所有的團體"},{"start":6429.76,"end":6432.76,"text":"請公所協助來幫忙宣傳"},{"start":6432.76,"end":6433.76,"text":"對"},{"start":6433.76,"end":6434.76,"text":"事實上也是有了"},{"start":6434.76,"end":6435.76,"text":"是"},{"start":6435.76,"end":6438.76,"text":"還有我們會加強宣傳"},{"start":6438.76,"end":6439.76,"text":"好"},{"start":6439.76,"end":6441.76,"text":"那在眾所周知的部分"},{"start":6441.76,"end":6443.76,"text":"就是說我們除了"},{"start":6443.76,"end":6444.76,"text":"我剛剛提到的"},{"start":6444.76,"end":6447.76,"text":"除了這個所謂的應變範圍內的居民"},{"start":6447.76,"end":6450.76,"text":"沿路逃生路線的居民"},{"start":6450.76,"end":6452.76,"text":"是不是也應該要充分理解"},{"start":6452.76,"end":6454.76,"text":"我們核安會的各項政策說明"},{"start":6454.76,"end":6456.76,"text":"為什麼要這樣講"},{"start":6456.76,"end":6460.76,"text":"我們用河山場的蘇山路線來做為例子"},{"start":6460.76,"end":6464.76,"text":"我們看到恆春對外的大條的這個連外道路"},{"start":6464.76,"end":6467.76,"text":"基本上只有台26線"},{"start":6467.76,"end":6468.76,"text":"就是平而公路"},{"start":6468.76,"end":6472.76,"text":"那當然還有平這個200線道"},{"start":6472.76,"end":6473.76,"text":"那這個"},{"start":6473.76,"end":6476.76,"text":"路的運輸上"},{"start":6476.76,"end":6477.76,"text":"我們應該想"},{"start":6477.76,"end":6478.76,"text":"最快"},{"start":6478.76,"end":6481.76,"text":"這個最安全的蘇山的可能"},{"start":6481.76,"end":6482.76,"text":"那當然了"},{"start":6482.76,"end":6484.76,"text":"核安會你們來說明的時候有說"},{"start":6484.76,"end":6486.76,"text":"在現行的運輸方案下"},{"start":6486.76,"end":6490.76,"text":"海運跟鐵路的替代運輸方案"},{"start":6490.76,"end":6492.76,"text":"不過我想我們面對"},{"start":6492.76,"end":6494.76,"text":"這個天災或戰爭"},{"start":6494.76,"end":6496.76,"text":"有可能的發生的時候"},{"start":6496.76,"end":6499.76,"text":"核安會目前有沒有跟屏東縣政府"},{"start":6499.76,"end":6502.76,"text":"來擬定周全的蘇山計畫"},{"start":6502.76,"end":6504.76,"text":"來做好對公眾的溝通"},{"start":6504.76,"end":6506.76,"text":"這就變得很重要"},{"start":6506.76,"end":6508.76,"text":"我們看完南部我們來看北部"},{"start":6508.76,"end":6513.76,"text":"這個新北合一合二廠對外的大條的連外道路"},{"start":6513.76,"end":6515.76,"text":"主要是台二線"},{"start":6515.76,"end":6517.76,"text":"那充其量台二甲線"},{"start":6517.76,"end":6521.76,"text":"也有辦法來負擔後續的這個應變緊急疏散"},{"start":6521.76,"end":6522.76,"text":"那同樣的"},{"start":6522.76,"end":6525.76,"text":"有沒有跟新北市政府做好溝通"},{"start":6525.76,"end":6527.76,"text":"我想這也是核安會的任務"},{"start":6527.76,"end":6530.76,"text":"畢竟我們反映完了這個燃料棒"},{"start":6530.76,"end":6531.76,"text":"還沒移出廠區"},{"start":6531.76,"end":6533.76,"text":"那就是有風險"},{"start":6533.76,"end":6535.76,"text":"所以本席要請教核安會的是說"},{"start":6535.76,"end":6539.76,"text":"我們除了核子事故緊急應變範圍內的居民"},{"start":6539.76,"end":6542.76,"text":"受潛在影響的居民"},{"start":6542.76,"end":6546.76,"text":"比如說我們到恆春到萬里"},{"start":6546.76,"end":6548.76,"text":"到金山石門的觀光客"},{"start":6548.76,"end":6551.76,"text":"我們要如何讓這些沿線的民眾"},{"start":6551.76,"end":6554.76,"text":"知道這個核子事故緊急應變的重要性"},{"start":6554.76,"end":6555.76,"text":"主委"},{"start":6559.12,"end":6560.12,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":6560.12,"end":6563.12,"text":"針對委員剛剛關心的就是像觀光客遊客的部分"},{"start":6563.12,"end":6566.12,"text":"目前我們也跟地方政府都有合作"},{"start":6566.12,"end":6569.12,"text":"例如說風景區都有一些相關的宣導"},{"start":6569.12,"end":6571.12,"text":"讓他們去遊玩的時候"},{"start":6571.12,"end":6574.12,"text":"同時也接受一些核安的一些知識"},{"start":6574.12,"end":6577.12,"text":"那你相關的宣導是有小冊子嗎"},{"start":6577.12,"end":6579.12,"text":"或者是怎麼樣相關的宣導"},{"start":6579.12,"end":6584.12,"text":"有一些宣導的單張跟手冊之類的"},{"start":6584.12,"end":6585.12,"text":"我們有放在相關的"},{"start":6585.12,"end":6588.12,"text":"像北關處的遊客中心等"},{"start":6588.12,"end":6589.12,"text":"都有"},{"start":6589.72,"end":6593.72,"text":"那我想我們一切都是為了防範於未來"},{"start":6593.72,"end":6596.72,"text":"那所以當然也絕非"},{"start":6596.72,"end":6599.72,"text":"是為了重啟核電來做準備"},{"start":6599.72,"end":6600.72,"text":"因為我要強調的是說"},{"start":6600.72,"end":6603.72,"text":"我們核電廠即便沒有運作"},{"start":6603.72,"end":6607.72,"text":"那可是它仍然有核廢料存放的廠區"},{"start":6607.72,"end":6609.72,"text":"那只要有核廢料存放的廠區"},{"start":6609.72,"end":6611.72,"text":"它就有相當程度的風險"},{"start":6611.72,"end":6612.72,"text":"所以不只前面提到了"},{"start":6612.72,"end":6613.72,"text":"溝通要做好"},{"start":6613.72,"end":6615.72,"text":"然後資訊要簡單明瞭"},{"start":6615.72,"end":6618.72,"text":"然後風險要精準掌控"},{"start":6618.72,"end":6620.72,"text":"我們也希望核安會真的要做好"},{"start":6620.72,"end":6621.72,"text":"萬全的把關"},{"start":6621.72,"end":6624.72,"text":"那麼在接下來的預算審查"},{"start":6624.72,"end":6625.72,"text":"我們就會加以關注"},{"start":6625.72,"end":6627.72,"text":"在緊急應變上面"},{"start":6627.72,"end":6629.72,"text":"我們是不是有這個韌性存在"},{"start":6629.72,"end":6631.72,"text":"請教核安會有把握做到嗎"},{"start":6633.2,"end":6634.2,"text":"這個韌性"},{"start":6634.2,"end":6635.2,"text":"可以"},{"start":6635.2,"end":6636.2,"text":"把關的韌性"},{"start":6636.2,"end":6637.2,"text":"OK喔"},{"start":6637.2,"end":6639.2,"text":"那我們審查預算後再來好好談"},{"start":6639.2,"end":6641.2,"text":"謝謝主委謝謝主席"},{"start":6641.2,"end":6642.2,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":6642.2,"end":6644.2,"text":"謝謝林怡菁委員的質詢"},{"start":6644.2,"end":6646.2,"text":"請主委回座"},{"start":6646.2,"end":6651.2,"text":"下一位我們有請羅志強委員進行詢答"},{"start":6667.94,"end":6668.94,"text":"主席有請主委"},{"start":6669.64,"end":6670.64,"text":"請主委"},{"start":6675.46,"end":6676.46,"text":"主委好"},{"start":6676.46,"end":6677.46,"text":"委員好"},{"start":6678.48,"end":6681.48,"text":"台灣絕對要投資核能"},{"start":6681.48,"end":6684.48,"text":"使用能源不應該被污名化"},{"start":6684.48,"end":6686.48,"text":"請問你知道這句話誰說的嗎"},{"start":6688.78,"end":6690.78,"text":"我不知道"},{"start":6690.78,"end":6691.78,"text":"我告訴你喔"},{"start":6691.78,"end":6695.78,"text":"是輝達執行長黃仁勳說的"},{"start":6695.78,"end":6699.78,"text":"他說台灣政府應該支持各種能源政策"},{"start":6699.78,"end":6702.78,"text":"我們需要各種能源的來源"},{"start":6702.78,"end":6704.78,"text":"風力太陽能核能"},{"start":6704.78,"end":6708.78,"text":"台灣絕對要投資核能"},{"start":6708.78,"end":6711.78,"text":"使用核能不應該被污名"},{"start":6713.06,"end":6714.06,"text":"科技巨頭啊"},{"start":6714.06,"end":6720.06,"text":"跟先進國家都支持發展跟投資核電"},{"start":6720.06,"end":6722.06,"text":"這已經是現在的一個趨勢"},{"start":6722.06,"end":6724.06,"text":"主委你同意嗎"},{"start":6724.65,"end":6725.65,"text":"我同意"},{"start":6726.24,"end":6727.24,"text":"對不對"},{"start":6728.16,"end":6730.16,"text":"包括輝達在內的科技巨頭"},{"start":6731.2,"end":6733.2,"text":"還有像Google啊"},{"start":6733.2,"end":6734.2,"text":"亞馬遜啊"},{"start":6734.54,"end":6737.54,"text":"都呼籲積極投資核電"},{"start":6738.76,"end":6743.76,"text":"發展AI先進國家美日韓也都以研議來發展核電"},{"start":6743.76,"end":6745.76,"text":"那就是因應未來"},{"start":6745.76,"end":6749.76,"text":"尤其AI時代非常龐大的電力需求"},{"start":6749.76,"end":6751.76,"text":"這幾乎是世界的趨勢"},{"start":6751.76,"end":6753.76,"text":"主委你之前也說過嘛"},{"start":6753.76,"end":6757.76,"text":"如果研議核電可以減輕供電壓力"},{"start":6757.76,"end":6759.76,"text":"也有助穩定電價"},{"start":6759.76,"end":6760.76,"text":"簡單來說"},{"start":6760.76,"end":6763.76,"text":"台灣其實就是缺電啦"},{"start":6764.02,"end":6768.02,"text":"而且核電就是重要而且可行的解方之一"},{"start":6768.02,"end":6769.02,"text":"沒錯吧"},{"start":6769.02,"end":6770.02,"text":"是的"},{"start":6771.55,"end":6773.55,"text":"那我要問主委哈"},{"start":6773.54,"end":6776.54,"text":"你還記得過去非核家園喊停"},{"start":6776.54,"end":6778.54,"text":"其實你這樣喊停非核家園"},{"start":6778.54,"end":6780.54,"text":"其實就認清這個事實啦"},{"start":6780.96,"end":6783.96,"text":"所以國民黨也就修了核管法"},{"start":6784.54,"end":6786.54,"text":"讓核電研議嘛這您知道嘛"},{"start":6786.54,"end":6787.54,"text":"是的"},{"start":6787.54,"end":6789.54,"text":"這點主委是認同的嘛對不對"},{"start":6789.54,"end":6790.54,"text":"嗯"},{"start":6790.54,"end":6791.54,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":6792.29,"end":6795.29,"text":"所以我們也看到黃仁勳苦口婆心啊"},{"start":6795.93,"end":6797.93,"text":"他講的非常的好"},{"start":6797.93,"end":6798.93,"text":"點出了"},{"start":6799.36,"end":6801.36,"text":"投資核能的必要性"},{"start":6801.6,"end":6802.6,"text":"但我要問主委啊"},{"start":6803.42,"end":6804.42,"text":"如果有人跟你講"},{"start":6805.18,"end":6807.18,"text":"他反對核電"},{"start":6807.39,"end":6809.39,"text":"然後不准你發電"},{"start":6809.82,"end":6812.82,"text":"那又批評政府不把用電問題解決"},{"start":6813.28,"end":6815.28,"text":"你會覺得邏輯有點矛盾啊"},{"start":6817.62,"end":6819.62,"text":"電梯"},{"start":6821.67,"end":6822.67,"text":"高硬啊"},{"start":6823.32,"end":6826.32,"text":"是經濟部要規範的事情啊"},{"start":6826.32,"end":6827.32,"text":"對"},{"start":6828.08,"end":6830.08,"text":"還會是負責"},{"start":6831.46,"end":6832.46,"text":"核能的安全"},{"start":6832.46,"end":6834.46,"text":"好啦我不為難主委了"},{"start":6834.46,"end":6835.46,"text":"讓大家來公判"},{"start":6837.83,"end":6838.83,"text":"如果有一個人吼"},{"start":6839.96,"end":6843.96,"text":"他過去反對黃仁勳口中非常重要的"},{"start":6843.96,"end":6846.96,"text":"未來的趨勢的發電方式就核電"},{"start":6847.57,"end":6851.57,"text":"過去長年也是作為我們國家發展的機載電力"},{"start":6851.57,"end":6853.57,"text":"然後結果我今天跟大家講說"},{"start":6853.57,"end":6855.57,"text":"你看現在電不夠"},{"start":6855.57,"end":6857.57,"text":"你沒有把用電問題解決"},{"start":6857.57,"end":6859.57,"text":"政府沒有把用電問題解決無能"},{"start":6860.26,"end":68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我們上次的電腦數目"},{"start":7993.96,"end":7996.96,"text":"是 我現在來說是偏低了"},{"start":7996.96,"end":7998.96,"text":"所以一定會大幅提升"},{"start":7998.96,"end":8002.96,"text":"好 那日本 德國 瑞士"},{"start":8002.96,"end":8003.96,"text":"您說大幅提升"},{"start":8003.96,"end":8005.96,"text":"人家是無上限"},{"start":8006.6,"end":8008.6,"text":"賠到滿意"},{"start":8010.01,"end":8012.01,"text":"那我們可以符合這個目標嗎?"},{"start":8014.73,"end":8016.73,"text":"一起來看看"},{"start":8017.21,"end":8019.21,"text":"現在很多國家的規則都這樣做"},{"start":8019.21,"end":8020.21,"text":"有的上限"},{"start":8020.21,"end":8022.21,"text":"就不夠部分的由國家來"},{"start":8022.21,"end":8024.21,"text":"所以我們沒有辦法"},{"start":8024.21,"end":8026.21,"text":"像日本 德國 瑞士無上限"},{"start":8026.21,"end":8027.21,"text":"我們是有上限"},{"start":8027.21,"end":8029.21,"text":"他們是無上限"},{"start":8029.21,"end":8031.21,"text":"好 那我希望"},{"start":8031.21,"end":8032.21,"text":"你看這個數據"},{"start":8032.21,"end":8035.21,"text":"美國5216億台幣"},{"start":8035.21,"end":8037.21,"text":"芬蘭 我們都知道"},{"start":8037.21,"end":8040.21,"text":"現在這個高階的核廢料"},{"start":8040.21,"end":8043.21,"text":"芬蘭應該是全世界唯一有在做"},{"start":8043.21,"end":8046.21,"text":"它是406億賠償上限"},{"start":8046.21,"end":8049.21,"text":"英國385億台幣賠償上限"},{"start":8049.21,"end":8051.21,"text":"所以我想這個部分"},{"start":8051.21,"end":8055.21,"text":"我希望說未來"},{"start":8055.21,"end":8057.21,"text":"像核培罰第18條"},{"start":8057.21,"end":8058.21,"text":"我們也提到"},{"start":8059.29,"end":8061.29,"text":"國際武裝衝突"},{"start":8061.29,"end":8063.29,"text":"我們知道這個是國際的共識"},{"start":8063.29,"end":8066.29,"text":"免責啦 免罰啦"},{"start":8066.29,"end":8068.29,"text":"但是重大天然災害"},{"start":8069.99,"end":8070.99,"text":"過去是免罰"},{"start":8070.99,"end":8071.99,"text":"我們要不要休罰"},{"start":8073.76,"end":8074.76,"text":"你剛剛有說"},{"start":8074.76,"end":8076.76,"text":"重大天然災害要不要休罰"},{"start":8078.33,"end":8079.33,"text":"要的 要嘛"},{"start":8079.33,"end":8082.33,"text":"所以我們現在行政院是要休罰"},{"start":8082.33,"end":8085.33,"text":"因為已經像新版的巴黎公約"},{"start":8085.33,"end":8089.33,"text":"他們已經認為重大天然災害"},{"start":8089.33,"end":8091.33,"text":"應該是可以預防因應的"},{"start":8091.33,"end":8093.33,"text":"天災發生的範圍內 對不對"},{"start":8093.33,"end":8094.33,"text":"是"},{"start":8094.33,"end":8097.33,"text":"那我想這個部分該休"},{"start":8097.33,"end":8098.33,"text":"我們就休"},{"start":8098.33,"end":8101.33,"text":"我想現在大家"},{"start":8101.89,"end":8103.89,"text":"我們真的是希望非核啦"},{"start":8103.89,"end":8107.89,"text":"但是因為已經休罰三讀通過"},{"start":8107.89,"end":8111.89,"text":"那我們也只能往這個方向前進"},{"start":8111.89,"end":8113.89,"text":"但是我覺得該做的"},{"start":8113.89,"end":8115.89,"text":"特別是核安會"},{"start":8115.89,"end":8117.89,"text":"核安會面對戰爭"},{"start":8117.89,"end":8120.89,"text":"面對可能的天然災害"},{"start":8120.89,"end":8122.89,"text":"我想核安會子無旁貸"},{"start":8122.89,"end":8124.89,"text":"那兩個禮拜內"},{"start":8124.89,"end":8125.89,"text":"是不是可以讓我知道"},{"start":8125.89,"end":8126.89,"text":"休罰的方向"},{"start":8127.91,"end":8128.91,"text":"可以的"},{"start":8128.91,"end":8130.91,"text":"好 謝謝主委 謝謝主席"},{"start":8130.91,"end":8131.91,"text":"好 謝謝委員"},{"start":8132.33,"end":8135.33,"text":"謝謝吳立華 詹偉 執行"},{"start":8135.33,"end":8136.33,"text":"主委請回座"},{"start":8143.1,"end":8147.1,"text":"接下來我們有請蔡春筹委員進行詢答"},{"start":8162.82,"end":8163.82,"text":"主席好"},{"start":8163.82,"end":8164.82,"text":"有請陳主委"},{"start":8164.82,"end":8165.82,"text":"請主委"},{"start":8173.56,"end":8174.56,"text":"主委好"},{"start":8174.56,"end":8175.56,"text":"委員好"},{"start":8175.56,"end":8179.56,"text":"今天我們要來審理核安會的一個預算"},{"start":8179.56,"end":8183.56,"text":"那本席先請陳主委能夠理解"},{"start":8183.56,"end":8185.56,"text":"對核安會我們必要的一個預算"},{"start":8185.56,"end":8188.56,"text":"原則上我一定是支持的"},{"start":8188.56,"end":8192.560000000001,"text":"但每一筆預算都是人民的納稅錢"},{"start":8192.560000000001,"end":8196.560000000001,"text":"那本席有責任監督預算的一個編列"},{"start":8196.560000000001,"end":8201.560000000001,"text":"是能夠嚴密的執行各項的一個安全管制的工作"},{"start":8201.56,"end":8205.56,"text":"並持續的深化國際合作的一個關係"},{"start":8205.56,"end":8209.56,"text":"推動科普教育及人才的一個培育"},{"start":8209.56,"end":8213.56,"text":"然後能夠落實知性透明"},{"start":8213.56,"end":8217.56,"text":"以及有效的一個民眾溝通的一個目標"},{"start":8217.56,"end":8221.56,"text":"所以呢 我要請問主委"},{"start":8221.56,"end":8224.56,"text":"在核安會今年編列了"},{"start":8224.56,"end":8229.56,"text":"465萬的一個核電廠運轉"},{"start":8229.56,"end":8233.56,"text":"跟除役安全管制的一個相關計畫"},{"start":8233.56,"end":8237.56,"text":"那核電廠無論是進入除役的一個階段"},{"start":8237.56,"end":8241.56,"text":"或者是面對近期各界關切的一個"},{"start":8241.56,"end":8243.56,"text":"研議的一個議題"},{"start":8243.56,"end":8244.56,"text":"那安全呢"},{"start":8244.56,"end":8246.56,"text":"永遠是最高的一個原則"},{"start":8246.56,"end":8249.56,"text":"那我最特別關心的是"},{"start":8249.56,"end":8252.56,"text":"核安會本身為監理機關"},{"start":8252.56,"end":8256.56,"text":"那如何來落實獨立的一個驗證"},{"start":8256.56,"end":8260.56,"text":"而不僅僅是書面的一個審查"},{"start":8260.56,"end":8263.56,"text":"台電的一個報告"},{"start":8263.56,"end":8264.56,"text":"請問主委"},{"start":8266.96,"end":8267.96,"text":"是的"},{"start":8268.7,"end":8269.7,"text":"跟委員說明"},{"start":8269.7,"end":8271.7,"text":"台電公司依法提出"},{"start":8271.7,"end":8274.7,"text":"除役或者是再運轉的計畫"},{"start":8274.7,"end":8275.7,"text":"送到會裡面來審查"},{"start":8275.7,"end":8278.7,"text":"核安會就是依照法規跟審查導責"},{"start":8278.7,"end":8280.7,"text":"來進行專業的審查"},{"start":8280.7,"end":8283.7,"text":"那委員所關心的事實上"},{"start":8283.7,"end":8285.7,"text":"不管是除役或者是再運轉"},{"start":8285.7,"end":8287.7,"text":"會裡面除了法規之外"},{"start":8287.7,"end":8290.7,"text":"我們也有參考國際的相關經驗"},{"start":8290.7,"end":8293.7,"text":"那也考量到國內的管制實務"},{"start":8293.7,"end":8295.7,"text":"然後去會編成管制的要項"},{"start":8295.7,"end":8297.7,"text":"來進行專業的審查"},{"start":8297.7,"end":8299.7,"text":"確保各方面的審查"},{"start":8299.7,"end":8302.7,"text":"可以維持審查的品質"},{"start":8302.7,"end":8304.7,"text":"跟審查的周詳"},{"start":8304.7,"end":8306.7,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":8306.7,"end":8310.7,"text":"那能不能就是針對這個獨立驗證方法"},{"start":8310.7,"end":8313.7,"text":"這些具體的"},{"start":8313.7,"end":8316.7,"text":"而且能夠充分的了解"},{"start":8316.7,"end":8320.7,"text":"跟國際安全標準同步的評估技術"},{"start":8320.7,"end":8321.7,"text":"能夠舉例說明嗎"},{"start":8323.62,"end":8325.62,"text":"跟委員說明"},{"start":8325.62,"end":8327.62,"text":"比如說那個耐震這部分"},{"start":8327.62,"end":8330.62,"text":"那核安會也透過研究計畫委託學界"},{"start":8330.62,"end":8334.62,"text":"來幫我們收集國外的先進的一些專業技術"},{"start":8334.62,"end":8339.62,"text":"那這部分除了可以加強核安會的專業審查"},{"start":8339.62,"end":8343.62,"text":"那在台電公司送審耐震報告的時候"},{"start":8343.62,"end":8346.62,"text":"核安會就可以去更精準的去掌握"},{"start":8346.62,"end":8349.62,"text":"台電公司是不是符合國際的標準"},{"start":8349.62,"end":8350.62,"text":"以上說法"},{"start":8350.62,"end":8354.62,"text":"我們希望能夠在更積極的"},{"start":8354.62,"end":8356.62,"text":"跟國際上能夠都能夠"},{"start":8356.62,"end":8359.62,"text":"在安全上都能夠接軌"},{"start":8359.62,"end":8362.62,"text":"那麼再來我們面臨的就是"},{"start":8362.62,"end":8364.62,"text":"我們現在廠商各部會常常在談到的就是"},{"start":8364.62,"end":8366.62,"text":"極端氣候"},{"start":8366.62,"end":8369.62,"text":"會威脅到一個電廠運作跟安全"},{"start":8369.62,"end":8372.62,"text":"那但只要增強對核電廠的一個管制"},{"start":8372.62,"end":8374.62,"text":"就能夠正確的一個回應"},{"start":8374.62,"end":8376.62,"text":"都有一個回應的方式"},{"start":8376.62,"end":8379.62,"text":"讓核能能夠在對抗氣候變遷中的"},{"start":8379.62,"end":8381.62,"text":"一個能源政策"},{"start":8381.62,"end":8384.62,"text":"具有相關的一個關鍵的一個地位"},{"start":8384.62,"end":8387.62,"text":"那面對極端氣候的一個常態化"},{"start":8387.62,"end":8390.62,"text":"全球核能安全的評估"},{"start":8390.62,"end":8393.62,"text":"已經將極端氣候納入"},{"start":8393.62,"end":8396.62,"text":"換照還有安全要求當中"},{"start":8396.62,"end":8398.62,"text":"那請問主委現在呢"},{"start":8398.62,"end":8402.62,"text":"有核安檢查是否能夠充分評估"},{"start":8402.62,"end":8403.62,"text":"氣候"},{"start":8403.62,"end":8407.62,"text":"極端氣候造成複合式的一個災難的一個風險嗎"},{"start":8407.62,"end":8410.62,"text":"有做這樣的一個配套評估嗎"},{"start":8412.88,"end":8414.88,"text":"跟委員說明就是目前"},{"start":8414.88,"end":8417.88,"text":"核電廠內的這個評估"},{"start":8417.88,"end":8419.88,"text":"都有把就是每三年都會進行一次"},{"start":8419.88,"end":8424.88,"text":"然後都有把就是因為因應委員所關心的這種極端氣候"},{"start":8424.88,"end":8426.88,"text":"所以他們像緊急應變計畫區"},{"start":8426.88,"end":8428.88,"text":"或者是民眾的防護行動"},{"start":8428.88,"end":8429.88,"text":"他每三年都會做一次"},{"start":8429.88,"end":8432.88,"text":"然後把這些複合式災害的一些風險情境"},{"start":8432.88,"end":8435.88,"text":"納進來去做前世的一些分析"},{"start":8435.88,"end":8436.88,"text":"以上"},{"start":8436.88,"end":8437.88,"text":"好"},{"start":8437.88,"end":8440.88,"text":"那我們也也希望"},{"start":8440.88,"end":8442.88,"text":"剛剛所講的這些評估"},{"start":8442.88,"end":8444.88,"text":"能夠做到位"},{"start":8444.88,"end":8447.88,"text":"讓那個氣候變遷"},{"start":8447.88,"end":8451.88,"text":"我們能夠針對這樣的一個防範"},{"start":8451.88,"end":8454.88,"text":"然後做到達到真正的一個社會韌性"},{"start":8454.88,"end":8456.88,"text":"所以呢本席要求核安會"},{"start":8456.88,"end":8458.88,"text":"一定要建立一套更透明"},{"start":8458.88,"end":8461.88,"text":"更具體力"},{"start":8461.88,"end":8465.88,"text":"更具獨立性的一個監理制度"},{"start":8465.88,"end":8468.88,"text":"還有強化對於極端氣候造成的"},{"start":8468.88,"end":8470.88,"text":"一個複合型的一個災難的風險"},{"start":8470.88,"end":8471.88,"text":"好"},{"start":8471.88,"end":8475.88,"text":"那再來呢我還要再繼續下一個問題"},{"start":8475.88,"end":8477.88,"text":"就是核安會呢"},{"start":8477.88,"end":8481.88,"text":"身為原子能的一個業務主管機關"},{"start":8481.88,"end":8486.88,"text":"所付核能跟輻射安全是天職"},{"start":8486.88,"end":8487.88,"text":"當然了"},{"start":8487.88,"end":8491.88,"text":"安全不僅與在於一個技術的數據的堆疊"},{"start":8491.88,"end":8495.88,"text":"那更要能夠獲得社會大眾的一個信任"},{"start":8495.88,"end":8497.88,"text":"那剛剛我們有很多的委員"},{"start":8500.27,"end":8501.27,"text":"都非常關心"},{"start":8501.27,"end":8504.27,"text":"有關於就是社區民眾的一個"},{"start":8504.27,"end":8508.27,"text":"對於這樣核安的一個參與"},{"start":8508.27,"end":8511.27,"text":"我們都很多委員都很關心"},{"start":8511.27,"end":8516.27,"text":"那公眾參與跟民眾溝通的相關預算"},{"start":8516.27,"end":8518.27,"text":"我認為核安會呢"},{"start":8518.27,"end":8522.27,"text":"目前表現能有很大的一個改進的一個空間"},{"start":8522.27,"end":8524.27,"text":"不能夠主做"},{"start":8524.27,"end":8526.27,"text":"只有做單上的先保"},{"start":8526.27,"end":8530.27,"text":"必須能夠做轉向雙向"},{"start":8530.27,"end":8535.27,"text":"那剛剛我們很多委員呢"},{"start":8535.27,"end":8538.27,"text":"也都針對一些說明會來做一個說明"},{"start":8538.27,"end":8540.27,"text":"那我個人認為呢"},{"start":8540.27,"end":8542.27,"text":"我們不要一向的單向"},{"start":8542.27,"end":8543.27,"text":"由上而下"},{"start":8543.27,"end":8546.27,"text":"應該是由下而上"},{"start":8546.27,"end":8548.27,"text":"讓公民參與"},{"start":8548.27,"end":8551.27,"text":"然後讓這些居民對地方的認同"},{"start":8551.27,"end":8553.27,"text":"相對的認同以後"},{"start":8553.27,"end":8557.27,"text":"對於那個核電廠一樣也就來認同了"},{"start":8557.27,"end":8559.27,"text":"所以呢我們在這個地方"},{"start":8559.27,"end":8560.27,"text":"我想要問說"},{"start":8560.27,"end":8563.27,"text":"像我們4月的時候所舉辦的一些"},{"start":8563.27,"end":8565.27,"text":"那個公開說明會"},{"start":8565.27,"end":8566.27,"text":"到底你們呢"},{"start":8566.27,"end":8568.27,"text":"收集了多少民眾的意見"},{"start":8568.27,"end":8569.27,"text":"然後這些意見呢"},{"start":8569.27,"end":8573.27,"text":"最後又有多少一個被正式採納"},{"start":8573.27,"end":8575.27,"text":"對於民眾的一個疑慮"},{"start":8575.27,"end":8579.27,"text":"核安會是否有完整的一個回復追蹤機制"},{"start":8580.53,"end":8582.53,"text":"跟委員說明了"},{"start":8582.53,"end":8585.53,"text":"在4月28號大部分委員還是提出"},{"start":8585.53,"end":8587.53,"text":"核電廠運轉的安全"},{"start":8587.53,"end":8590.53,"text":"核廢料以及緊急應變"},{"start":8590.53,"end":8592.53,"text":"包括速散道路等等"},{"start":8592.53,"end":8594.53,"text":"那這部分我們都已經彙整"},{"start":8594.53,"end":8595.53,"text":"彙整好了"},{"start":8595.53,"end":8598.53,"text":"那也已經請相關的單位"},{"start":8598.53,"end":8600.53,"text":"來提出回應說明"},{"start":8600.53,"end":8603.53,"text":"那回應完之後我們會再次彙整"},{"start":8603.53,"end":8606.53,"text":"彙整完我們就會公佈在核安會的網站"},{"start":8606.53,"end":8609.53,"text":"另外一部分就是針對這些"},{"start":8609.53,"end":8611.53,"text":"民眾公眾所提出的意見"},{"start":8611.53,"end":8613.53,"text":"我們再會去檢視"},{"start":8613.53,"end":8615.53,"text":"核安會所提出來的意見"},{"start":8615.53,"end":8616.53,"text":"然後進行交叉比對"},{"start":8616.53,"end":8617.53,"text":"如果沒有的話"},{"start":8617.53,"end":8620.53,"text":"我們也會納入我們的審查意見裡面"},{"start":8620.53,"end":8623.53,"text":"來要求台電公司進行回應說明"},{"start":8623.53,"end":8625.53,"text":"好我們一定要來尊重我們"},{"start":8625.53,"end":8628.53,"text":"地方居民的一些意見"},{"start":8628.53,"end":8631.53,"text":"畢竟他們才知道他們真正需要什麼"},{"start":8631.53,"end":8633.53,"text":"然後他們的風險在哪裡"},{"start":8633.53,"end":8636.53,"text":"所以我們希望就是說"},{"start":8636.53,"end":8639.53,"text":"這些說起之後"},{"start":8639.53,"end":8642.53,"text":"能夠做一個回覆的機制"},{"start":8642.53,"end":8646.53,"text":"那核安會在進行預算溝通的時候"},{"start":8646.53,"end":8650.53,"text":"有沒有提供詳細的一個"},{"start":8650.53,"end":8653.53,"text":"媒體先導的一個名氣"},{"start":8653.53,"end":8655.53,"text":"然後來說明你們如何評估"},{"start":8655.53,"end":8656.53,"text":"這些先導的成效"},{"start":8656.53,"end":8660.53,"text":"那如果你們只拿到媒體的"},{"start":8660.53,"end":8662.53,"text":"瀏覽次數或是曝光度"},{"start":8662.53,"end":8664.53,"text":"當作績效"},{"start":8664.53,"end":8667.53,"text":"那我覺得這樣做是還不夠的"},{"start":8667.53,"end":8670.53,"text":"我要求核安會要建立一套"},{"start":8670.53,"end":8673.53,"text":"客觀的一個平衡指標"},{"start":8673.53,"end":8675.53,"text":"然後例如民眾對於輻射知識的"},{"start":8675.53,"end":8678.53,"text":"一個正確的認知的一個提升"},{"start":8678.53,"end":8680.53,"text":"還有參議者的一個溝通"},{"start":8680.53,"end":8683.53,"text":"對政策的疑慮能夠具體減少"},{"start":8683.53,"end":8689.53,"text":"那剛剛我們吳釗為他也有提到"},{"start":8689.53,"end":8691.53,"text":"有很多事之後是"},{"start":8691.53,"end":8693.53,"text":"你講的都不夠白話"},{"start":8693.53,"end":8695.53,"text":"那很多民眾都聽不懂"},{"start":8695.53,"end":8696.53,"text":"看不懂"},{"start":8696.53,"end":8697.53,"text":"然後在這個部分"},{"start":8697.53,"end":8699.53,"text":"你們又要如何來做一個改善呢"},{"start":8701.66,"end":8702.66,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":8702.66,"end":8703.66,"text":"我們非常了解"},{"start":8703.66,"end":8706.66,"text":"委員非常關心整個宣導溝通"},{"start":8706.66,"end":8707.66,"text":"不能只有單向"},{"start":8707.66,"end":8708.66,"text":"一定要雙向"},{"start":8708.66,"end":8711.66,"text":"當然除了這些專業的審查之外"},{"start":8711.66,"end":8714.66,"text":"我們平常我們有辦科普展"},{"start":8714.66,"end":8716.66,"text":"就是我們到各個縣市去"},{"start":8716.66,"end":8719.66,"text":"然後直接面對面"},{"start":8719.66,"end":8721.66,"text":"由我們這些專家直接"},{"start":8721.66,"end":8724.66,"text":"面對面跟民眾溝通"},{"start":8724.66,"end":8727.66,"text":"我們也希望說直接拿到這個委員"},{"start":8727.66,"end":8730.66,"text":"那個民眾對核安會的看法"},{"start":8730.66,"end":8732.66,"text":"也希望我們這些專家"},{"start":8732.66,"end":8734.66,"text":"能夠用更白話的語言"},{"start":8734.66,"end":8735.66,"text":"跟民眾溝通"},{"start":8735.66,"end":8737.66,"text":"我想這我們會繼續的努力"},{"start":8737.66,"end":8738.66,"text":"是"},{"start":8738.66,"end":8741.66,"text":"那剛剛說明了這樣"},{"start":8741.66,"end":8742.66,"text":"有這麼多的專家"},{"start":8742.66,"end":8746.66,"text":"到全台灣各個地方來做一個宣導"},{"start":8746.66,"end":8748.66,"text":"那這個宣導就一定要到位"},{"start":8748.66,"end":8750.66,"text":"如果說你宣導不到位"},{"start":8750.66,"end":8752.66,"text":"民眾很多都不知道"},{"start":8752.66,"end":8753.66,"text":"來的人不多"},{"start":8753.66,"end":8756.66,"text":"那也等於就是說浪費掉了"},{"start":8756.66,"end":8759.66,"text":"這個我想需要就是一定要掌握"},{"start":8759.66,"end":8760.66,"text":"好謝謝委員"},{"start":8760.66,"end":8761.66,"text":"好那最後呢"},{"start":8761.66,"end":8763.66,"text":"就請核安會一定要記住"},{"start":8763.66,"end":8767.66,"text":"新任的一個建立來自於對話的一個誠意"},{"start":8767.66,"end":8769.66,"text":"那本是要求核安會呢"},{"start":8769.66,"end":8772.66,"text":"必須要提出具體的一個資訊公開"},{"start":8772.66,"end":8774.66,"text":"改善的一個方案"},{"start":8774.66,"end":8777.66,"text":"讓複雜的核安監理書記"},{"start":8777.66,"end":8780.66,"text":"還有廢棄物的管制的一個情形"},{"start":8780.66,"end":8783.66,"text":"轉化為簡單的一檔的圖卡"},{"start":8783.66,"end":8786.66,"text":"或者是比較用詞比較白話的"},{"start":8786.66,"end":8788.66,"text":"剛剛我講白話的一個信息"},{"start":8788.66,"end":8790.66,"text":"能夠安全營火的知"},{"start":8790.66,"end":8792.66,"text":"是公眾的一個潛力"},{"start":8792.66,"end":8794.66,"text":"所以在這裡不只是"},{"start":8794.66,"end":8796.66,"text":"剛剛我們所說的"},{"start":8796.66,"end":8798.66,"text":"不是實驗室裡面的一個數據的一個報告"},{"start":8798.66,"end":8801.66,"text":"而是要讓全民都能夠來了解"},{"start":8801.66,"end":8803.66,"text":"也能夠來投入"},{"start":8803.66,"end":8805.66,"text":"以上跟大家交流"},{"start":8808.08,"end":8811.08,"text":"好謝謝蔡村重委員的質詢"},{"start":8811.08,"end":8812.08,"text":"請主委回座"},{"start":8812.78,"end":8816.78,"text":"下一位我們有請陳秀寶委員"},{"start":8817.27,"end":8818.27,"text":"進行詢答"},{"start":8818.27,"end":8821.27,"text":"稍後在陳秀寶委員詢答完畢之後"},{"start":8821.27,"end":8823.27,"text":"我們休息五分鐘"},{"start":8824.02,"end":8825.02,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":8825.02,"end":8827.02,"text":"請核安會陳主委"},{"start":8827.02,"end":8828.02,"text":"請陳主委"},{"start":8834.6,"end":8835.6,"text":"主委好"},{"start":8835.6,"end":8836.6,"text":"主委好"},{"start":8836.6,"end":8839.6,"text":"首先我們先就核能廠的安全"},{"start":8839.6,"end":8842.6,"text":"我們來進行相關的尋討"},{"start":8842.6,"end":8844.6,"text":"去年三月的時候"},{"start":8844.6,"end":8846.6,"text":"核三廠有發生火警"},{"start":8846.6,"end":8849.6,"text":"那所幸當時沒有造成任何的災情"},{"start":8849.6,"end":8852.6,"text":"當時有調查了起火的原因是廠商"},{"start":8852.6,"end":8855.6,"text":"他在切割這個鐵材的這個火花"},{"start":8855.6,"end":8857.6,"text":"引燃了旁邊的塑膠物品"},{"start":8857.6,"end":8859.6,"text":"那才過一年"},{"start":8859.6,"end":8861.6,"text":"核二廠又發生火警"},{"start":8861.57,"end":8864.57,"text":"主委請問一下這次核二廠的火警"},{"start":8864.57,"end":8866.57,"text":"起火的原因你們調查出來了嗎"},{"start":8868.84,"end":8873.84,"text":"跟委員說明初步是因為這個陷入絕緣劣化"},{"start":8874.39,"end":8875.39,"text":"那"},{"start":8875.44,"end":8877.44,"text":"確切的原因那個消防單位"},{"start":8877.44,"end":8878.44,"text":"還在調查當中"},{"start":8878.44,"end":8880.44,"text":"他們會做火調就對了"},{"start":8881.14,"end":8884.14,"text":"核電廠接連發生火警的意外"},{"start":8884.14,"end":8888.14,"text":"核安會你們有沒有要求台電業檢討他們的疏失"},{"start":8889.55,"end":8893.55,"text":"跟委員說明確實從去年3月6號跟今年5月14號"},{"start":8893.55,"end":8894.55,"text":"雖然地點不同"},{"start":8894.55,"end":8898.55,"text":"那我們已經要求台電公司針對核電廠"},{"start":8898.55,"end":8902.55,"text":"包括核一二三廠的全廠的防護範圍"},{"start":8902.55,"end":8904.55,"text":"跟改善措施"},{"start":8904.55,"end":8905.55,"text":"或者是他的因應措施"},{"start":8905.55,"end":8907.55,"text":"要提出一個完整的檢討"},{"start":8907.55,"end":8909.55,"text":"所以你們有要求台電要做"},{"start":8910.47,"end":8912.47,"text":"核電廠連年發生這個火警意外"},{"start":8912.47,"end":8914.47,"text":"其實會讓民眾覺得說"},{"start":8914.47,"end":8916.47,"text":"核電的安全會有疑慮"},{"start":8916.47,"end":8918.47,"text":"他們會覺得說為什麼核電廠會失火"},{"start":8918.47,"end":8919.47,"text":"當然"},{"start":8919.47,"end":8923.47,"text":"失火的原因跟我們這個核電機組本身是沒有關係的"},{"start":8923.47,"end":8926.47,"text":"但是在核電廠發生這樣的狀況"},{"start":8926.47,"end":8929.47,"text":"就會讓民眾有這樣子高度的疑慮"},{"start":8929.47,"end":8932.47,"text":"雖然說我們現在核電機組目前是沒有在運轉"},{"start":8932.47,"end":8934.47,"text":"但是我們核電廠裡面還有"},{"start":8934.47,"end":8937.47,"text":"高階的核廢料以及使用過的這些燃料棒"},{"start":8937.47,"end":8939.47,"text":"所以安全是不能輕忽的"},{"start":8939.47,"end":8941.47,"text":"我希望說核安會"},{"start":8941.47,"end":8943.47,"text":"我希望你們可以提供你們檢討"},{"start":8943.47,"end":8946.47,"text":"安全環境防護的這個書面報告"},{"start":8946.47,"end":8949.47,"text":"全面來檢視核電廠廠區的這個安全"},{"start":8949.47,"end":8950.47,"text":"這可以嗎"},{"start":8950.47,"end":8951.47,"text":"可以"},{"start":8951.47,"end":8952.47,"text":"可以的"},{"start":8952.47,"end":8954.47,"text":"提供這樣的報告給委員會的每一個委員"},{"start":8954.47,"end":8955.47,"text":"可以的"},{"start":8955.47,"end":8957.47,"text":"好 那多久可以提供"},{"start":8959.01,"end":8961.01,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":8961.01,"end":8962.01,"text":"好 接下來呢"},{"start":8962.01,"end":8963.01,"text":"我想要請教主委"},{"start":8963.01,"end":8966.01,"text":"近期這個牙醫公會呢"},{"start":8966.01,"end":8972.01,"text":"正在爭取放寬手持式的這個牙科X光機的法規限制"},{"start":8972.01,"end":8976.01,"text":"希望可以免除必須設置專屬X光式"},{"start":8976.01,"end":8979.01,"text":"這個來執行這個X光檢查的這個規定"},{"start":8979.01,"end":8980.01,"text":"會有這樣子的考量"},{"start":8980.01,"end":8984.01,"text":"主要說現在有一些比較特殊的醫療需求"},{"start":8984.01,"end":8985.01,"text":"像長照機構啊"},{"start":8985.01,"end":8987.01,"text":"偏鄉巡迴"},{"start":8987.01,"end":8990.01,"text":"還是居家這種到宅的醫療需求"},{"start":8990.01,"end":8993.01,"text":"還有一些身心障礙的這樣的病患的服務"},{"start":8993.01,"end":8995.01,"text":"那長者可能移動不便"},{"start":8995.01,"end":8996.01,"text":"那偏鄉呢"},{"start":8996.01,"end":8999.01,"text":"你不可能在偏鄉這邊有這樣子的設施"},{"start":8999.01,"end":9003.01,"text":"那有一些像身心障礙這樣子的"},{"start":9003.01,"end":9005.01,"text":"有一些相關的需求"},{"start":9005.01,"end":9006.01,"text":"如果說我們在移動的話"},{"start":9006.01,"end":9008.01,"text":"也是有一些風險產生"},{"start":9008.01,"end":9011.01,"text":"所以牙醫師他們這邊也提供了說"},{"start":9011.01,"end":9016.01,"text":"目前國際上使用手持式的這個X光機的這個輻射量呢"},{"start":9016.01,"end":9019.01,"text":"他們評估起來是遠低於每個人"},{"start":9019.01,"end":9021.01,"text":"每年自然背景輻射量"},{"start":9021.01,"end":9024.01,"text":"他們覺得這個是相對安全的"},{"start":9024.01,"end":9026.01,"text":"那我想請教主委"},{"start":9026.01,"end":9030.01,"text":"你們目前核安會對針對開放這種牙醫師公會"},{"start":9030.01,"end":9032.01,"text":"所要求申請的這個手持式的X光機"},{"start":9032.01,"end":9033.01,"text":"你們有什麼看法"},{"start":9034.27,"end":9035.27,"text":"好"},{"start":9036.21,"end":9037.21,"text":"這個"},{"start":9038.13,"end":9043.13,"text":"核安會對所有的管制都是滾動式檢討"},{"start":9043.13,"end":9045.13,"text":"而且因為科技進步等等"},{"start":9045.13,"end":9048.13,"text":"會讓某些風險會一直往下降"},{"start":9048.13,"end":9050.13,"text":"所以我們也會滾動式檢討"},{"start":9050.13,"end":9052.13,"text":"跟國際標準"},{"start":9052.13,"end":9057.13,"text":"像IAA、ITRP、IAA國際原能組織"},{"start":9057.13,"end":9059.13,"text":"他們標準要一致的"},{"start":9059.13,"end":9063.13,"text":"我們已經研定相關的防的準則"},{"start":9063.13,"end":9066.13,"text":"請牙醫師公會在審閱之中"},{"start":9066.13,"end":9069.13,"text":"或許還會跟衛福部合作"},{"start":9069.13,"end":9072.13,"text":"和漁戰士申請申辦之身"},{"start":9072.13,"end":9075.13,"text":"實質協助醫療機構加速申請的流程"},{"start":9075.13,"end":9078.13,"text":"所以我們會一直做改進"},{"start":9078.13,"end":9080.13,"text":"所以不要說偏鄉的"},{"start":9080.13,"end":9083.13,"text":"那些我們都會與時俱進"},{"start":9084.2,"end":9088.2,"text":"因為在牙科的這個診療當中"},{"start":9088.2,"end":9092.2,"text":"其實牙醫師他們在使用X光機來檢查"},{"start":9092.2,"end":9097.2,"text":"即使說我們在我們巡迴的醫療"},{"start":9097.2,"end":9100.2,"text":"或是說我們在社區這樣子的醫療"},{"start":9100.2,"end":9103.2,"text":"他可能沒有辦法在那個時候進行拔牙"},{"start":9103.2,"end":9105.2,"text":"但是如果有X光機的檢查"},{"start":9105.2,"end":9107.2,"text":"至少可以早期的及早來判斷"},{"start":9107.2,"end":9111.2,"text":"他做根管治療還是做拔牙這個需求性"},{"start":9111.2,"end":9113.2,"text":"再來安排病人來做相關的治療"},{"start":9113.2,"end":9115.2,"text":"但是本席在這邊我也要表達"},{"start":9115.2,"end":9118.2,"text":"我是尊重我們核安會的專業評估"},{"start":9118.2,"end":9120.2,"text":"剛才主委您也說到了"},{"start":9120.2,"end":9123.2,"text":"這個要跟衛福部來討論過"},{"start":9123.2,"end":9128.2,"text":"希望說你們在這個整個的這個申請"},{"start":9128.2,"end":9133.2,"text":"跟我們安全民眾安全及操作X光機人員的安全"},{"start":9133.2,"end":9135.2,"text":"這個都也要注意到"},{"start":9135.2,"end":9137.2,"text":"畢竟他操作這樣的機器的話"},{"start":9137.2,"end":9140.2,"text":"對他本身這個輻射這個接受量"},{"start":9140.2,"end":9144.2,"text":"還有說相關周邊人員這個都要考量到"},{"start":9144.2,"end":9147.2,"text":"所以我希望說我們要經過很嚴謹的討論"},{"start":9147.2,"end":9151.2,"text":"包括跟衛福部來討論相關的使用"},{"start":9151.2,"end":9153.2,"text":"儀器使用這個規範"},{"start":9153.2,"end":9157.2,"text":"我們才能兼顧並換民眾及操作人員的健康權益"},{"start":9157.2,"end":9158.2,"text":"是的"},{"start":9159.72,"end":9162.72,"text":"所以這個部分就請你們後續"},{"start":9162.72,"end":9163.72,"text":"針對這個部分的申請"},{"start":9163.72,"end":9165.72,"text":"如果有相關的進度"},{"start":9165.72,"end":9167.72,"text":"也希望一份報告給我辦公室"},{"start":9167.72,"end":9168.72,"text":"好的 謝謝主委"},{"start":9168.72,"end":9173.72,"text":"接下來我還要請教關於就是核工人才培育的問題"},{"start":9173.72,"end":9175.72,"text":"那上一次核安會這邊有表達"},{"start":9175.72,"end":9178.72,"text":"就是說你們有向教育部爭取"},{"start":9178.72,"end":9180.72,"text":"這個工費流考的項目"},{"start":9180.72,"end":9184.72,"text":"有新增了這個核子工程項目這個部分之外"},{"start":9184.72,"end":9186.72,"text":"內政部也有預告"},{"start":9186.72,"end":9190.72,"text":"規劃國籍是高級專業人才認定標準"},{"start":9190.72,"end":9194.72,"text":"那今天核安會建議你們有新增了這個核能的專業"},{"start":9194.72,"end":9198.72,"text":"有感覺的出來說核安會針對這個育材染材"},{"start":9198.72,"end":9200.72,"text":"你們是有在想辦法的"},{"start":9200.72,"end":9202.72,"text":"這個部分我還是要肯定也支持"},{"start":9202.72,"end":9205.72,"text":"但是我們能不能做更多"},{"start":9205.72,"end":9208.72,"text":"我們還有什麼可以去加強這個部分呢"},{"start":9208.72,"end":9210.72,"text":"目前除了上次你們問"},{"start":9210.72,"end":9213.72,"text":"我有問到就是新增工費流考的項目呢"},{"start":9213.72,"end":9217.72,"text":"目前有的就是關於清大核公所呢"},{"start":9217.72,"end":9220.72,"text":"核安會現在有做內部培訓"},{"start":9220.72,"end":9225.72,"text":"針對同仁開這個受核能安全課程"},{"start":9225.72,"end":9226.72,"text":"我想請教一下"},{"start":9226.72,"end":9230.72,"text":"那現在內部同仁對這個課程的報名的狀況"},{"start":9230.72,"end":9232.72,"text":"以及你們做這樣的課程"},{"start":9232.72,"end":9234.72,"text":"你們的目標是什麼"},{"start":9234.72,"end":9236.72,"text":"報名非常有月"},{"start":9236.72,"end":9238.72,"text":"有40多位"},{"start":9238.56,"end":9239.56,"text":"同仁報名"},{"start":9239.56,"end":9241.56,"text":"他目標是"},{"start":9241.48,"end":9247.48,"text":"能夠取得新華大學核子工程數學學位的學程"},{"start":9247.94,"end":9249.94,"text":"所以其實在我們內部對這樣的課程"},{"start":9249.94,"end":9252.94,"text":"也是覺得說十分有這個需求"},{"start":9252.94,"end":9253.94,"text":"也是很踴躍的"},{"start":9253.94,"end":9256.94,"text":"那這個部分也是要肯定主委您的用心"},{"start":9256.94,"end":9258.94,"text":"在這邊我還是要強調"},{"start":9258.94,"end":9260.94,"text":"不管核電未來的走向"},{"start":9260.94,"end":9262.94,"text":"到底是存貨費"},{"start":9262.94,"end":9265.94,"text":"或者說我們其他有其他的發展"},{"start":9265.94,"end":9268.94,"text":"其實人才都是我們最重要的資產"},{"start":9268.94,"end":9272.94,"text":"尤其現在國際間對於整個核能的運用及研究"},{"start":9272.94,"end":9274.94,"text":"是非常的盛行"},{"start":9274.94,"end":9280.94,"text":"所以相關的研究也十分的需要這些相關的合工人才來進行"},{"start":9280.94,"end":9283.94,"text":"那有一點就是核能的薪資待遇"},{"start":9283.94,"end":9287.94,"text":"我想會是人才留下一個意願的關鍵"},{"start":9287.94,"end":9289.94,"text":"我國的合工人才薪資"},{"start":9289.94,"end":9292.94,"text":"在國際間可能比較中斷"},{"start":9292.94,"end":9293.94,"text":"比較後斷"},{"start":9293.94,"end":9294.94,"text":"這個對於人才的延攬"},{"start":9294.94,"end":9296.94,"text":"留任是有一定的衝擊"},{"start":9296.94,"end":9300.94,"text":"希望核安會這邊你們可以很謹慎來思考"},{"start":9300.94,"end":9304.94,"text":"而且一定要編列相關的預算"},{"start":9304.94,"end":9305.94,"text":"人才培育的預算"},{"start":9305.94,"end":9308.94,"text":"希望繼續來充實我國合工的人才"},{"start":9308.94,"end":9311.94,"text":"這個部分主委您怎麼回應"},{"start":9311.94,"end":9313.94,"text":"對我們一直往這方面向走"},{"start":9313.94,"end":9316.94,"text":"事實上我們全力在做這方面的事情"},{"start":9316.94,"end":9320.94,"text":"因為我們確實有很多年沒有進入合工人才"},{"start":9320.94,"end":9323.94,"text":"都在核安會就有這種狀況"},{"start":9323.94,"end":9327.94,"text":"所以我們盡全力培養這方面的人"},{"start":9327.94,"end":9329.94,"text":"從外面招考也好"},{"start":9329.94,"end":9330.94,"text":"從內部培養"},{"start":9330.94,"end":9334.94,"text":"就全力增加這方面的訓練"},{"start":9336.16,"end":9339.16,"text":"核安會不是只為了核電而存在"},{"start":9339.16,"end":9342.16,"text":"核安會所管的相關的核能的發展"},{"start":9342.16,"end":9343.16,"text":"核能的安全"},{"start":9343.16,"end":9345.16,"text":"還有剛才我提到像X光機"},{"start":9345.16,"end":9348.16,"text":"這個安全上使用上"},{"start":9348.16,"end":9350.16,"text":"這個都是核能"},{"start":9350.16,"end":9353.16,"text":"相關的這些都是核能的專業"},{"start":9353.16,"end":9355.16,"text":"都是我們核安會"},{"start":9355.16,"end":9357.16,"text":"你們有這樣子的專業來規範它"},{"start":9357.16,"end":9360.16,"text":"而且相關的這個合工人才"},{"start":9360.16,"end":9365.16,"text":"未來對於國際上的這個發展趨勢"},{"start":9365.16,"end":9367.16,"text":"所以要跟得上腳步"},{"start":9367.16,"end":9371.16,"text":"我們也要相關我們這樣的人才的儲備"},{"start":9371.16,"end":9373.16,"text":"來因應未來世界的潮流"},{"start":9373.16,"end":9375.16,"text":"所以這個部分我請主委"},{"start":9375.16,"end":9378.16,"text":"也請我們核安會能夠持續的來努力"},{"start":9378.16,"end":9379.16,"text":"好的"},{"start":9379.16,"end":9380.16,"text":"謝謝主委"},{"start":9381.03,"end":9382.03,"text":"好"},{"start":9382.03,"end":9384.03,"text":"謝謝秀寶委員的質詢"},{"start":9384.03,"end":9385.03,"text":"請主委回座"},{"start":9385.03,"end":9387.03,"text":"我們現在休息五分鐘"},{"start":9406.21,"end":9409.21,"text":"請進去"},{"start":9491.41,"end":9492.41,"text":"請進去"},{"start":9492.41,"end":9493.41,"text":"請進去"},{"start":9492.98,"end":9493.98,"text":"請進去"},{"start":9493.98,"end":9494.98,"text":"請進去"},{"start":9494.98,"end":9495.98,"text":"請進去"},{"start":9495.98,"end":9496.98,"text":"請進去"},{"start":9496.98,"end":9497.98,"text":"請進去"},{"start":9497.98,"end":9498.98,"text":"請進去"},{"start":9498.98,"end":9499.98,"text":"請進去"},{"start":9499.98,"end":9500.98,"text":"請進去"},{"start":9500.98,"end":9501.98,"text":"請進去"},{"start":9501.98,"end":9502.98,"text":"請進去"},{"start":9692.12,"end":9693.12,"text":"好"},{"start":9693.12,"end":9695.12,"text":"我們現在繼續詢答"},{"start":9696.63,"end":9698.63,"text":"下一位有請中嘉賓委員"},{"start":9698.63,"end":9699.63,"text":"中嘉賓委員"},{"start":9699.63,"end":9701.63,"text":"中嘉賓委員不在"},{"start":9702.84,"end":9706.84,"text":"下一位有請葉元芝委員進行詢答"},{"start":9722.82,"end":9723.82,"text":"主席好"},{"start":9723.82,"end":9724.82,"text":"我們要請核安會主委"},{"start":9724.82,"end":9725.82,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":9725.82,"end":9726.82,"text":"有請陳主委"},{"start":9733.25,"end":9734.25,"text":"主委好"},{"start":9734.25,"end":9735.25,"text":"主委好"},{"start":9735.25,"end":9736.25,"text":"我剛看到非常多的委員"},{"start":9736.25,"end":9740.25,"text":"在針對核安會所舉辦的那個"},{"start":9740.25,"end":9742.25,"text":"屏東的地方說明會"},{"start":9742.25,"end":9744.25,"text":"有給很多建議"},{"start":9744.25,"end":9745.25,"text":"對"},{"start":9745.25,"end":9746.25,"text":"我看主委也沒有辯駁"},{"start":9746.25,"end":9749.25,"text":"主委感覺上好像都虛心的接受"},{"start":9749.25,"end":9752.25,"text":"因為很多委員批評說流於形式"},{"start":9752.25,"end":9754.25,"text":"那我覺得我在乎的"},{"start":9754.25,"end":9755.25,"text":"除了地方說明會之外"},{"start":9755.25,"end":9757.25,"text":"其實核安會應該要到"},{"start":9757.95,"end":9759.95,"text":"應該要再加強對全國的宣傳"},{"start":9759.95,"end":9763.95,"text":"因為現在感覺上賴總統已經要轉彎了"},{"start":9763.95,"end":9765.95,"text":"本來是黨核電"},{"start":9765.95,"end":9767.95,"text":"在去年還叫大家投票"},{"start":9767.95,"end":9768.95,"text":"不要投核三演義公投"},{"start":9768.95,"end":9770.95,"text":"要大家投不同意票"},{"start":9770.95,"end":9772.95,"text":"然後民進黨在修核管法的時候"},{"start":9772.95,"end":9773.95,"text":"一直在亂罵"},{"start":9773.95,"end":9774.95,"text":"那現在大家也"},{"start":9774.95,"end":9776.95,"text":"我也沒有看到民進黨在亂罵了"},{"start":9776.95,"end":9779.95,"text":"所謂顯然就是社會要朝向"},{"start":9779.95,"end":9781.95,"text":"重啟核三的方向前進"},{"start":9781.95,"end":9784.95,"text":"那可是重啟核三有一個很關鍵的"},{"start":9784.95,"end":9786.95,"text":"就是賴總統設定的條件"},{"start":9786.95,"end":9789.95,"text":"就是除了核安無虞核廢有解之外"},{"start":9789.95,"end":9791.95,"text":"還有一個社會共識"},{"start":9791.95,"end":9793.95,"text":"但社會共識這件事情就是很抽象"},{"start":9793.95,"end":9795.95,"text":"就什麼叫社會共識"},{"start":9795.95,"end":9796.95,"text":"那他的指標是什麼"},{"start":9796.95,"end":9797.95,"text":"什麼評判"},{"start":9797.95,"end":9798.95,"text":"這要做民調嗎"},{"start":9798.95,"end":9801.95,"text":"還是要用什麼方式公聽會"},{"start":9801.95,"end":9803.95,"text":"然後做問卷還是怎麼樣"},{"start":9803.95,"end":9805.95,"text":"什麼叫社會共識"},{"start":9805.95,"end":9808.95,"text":"所以這個社會共識這四個是非常抽象"},{"start":9808.95,"end":9810.95,"text":"那社會共識也有可能會成為"},{"start":9810.95,"end":9812.95,"text":"未來核電可以重啟"},{"start":9812.95,"end":9814.95,"text":"或不能重啟的關鍵"},{"start":9814.95,"end":9815.95,"text":"因為這非常抽象"},{"start":9815.95,"end":9816.95,"text":"這個非常抽象"},{"start":9816.95,"end":9817.95,"text":"沒有一定的標準"},{"start":9817.95,"end":9820.95,"text":"那所以我覺得不管無論如何"},{"start":9820.95,"end":9822.95,"text":"核安會還是要針對這個事情做準備"},{"start":9822.95,"end":9826.95,"text":"那核安會如果覺得在主委的專業的判斷裡面"},{"start":9826.95,"end":9830.95,"text":"你如果認為核電廠重啟是沒有問題的"},{"start":9830.95,"end":9832.95,"text":"我認為核安會從現在開始"},{"start":9832.95,"end":9834.95,"text":"除了去地方做說明會之外"},{"start":9834.95,"end":9835.95,"text":"你要跟全國做說明"},{"start":9835.95,"end":9838.95,"text":"那當然你去每一個縣市辦說明會是"},{"start":9838.95,"end":9840.95,"text":"也許對你們來說負擔比較重"},{"start":9840.95,"end":9843.95,"text":"但最起碼你可以加強媒體的宣傳"},{"start":9843.95,"end":9844.95,"text":"或網路的宣傳"},{"start":9844.95,"end":9846.95,"text":"可是我看到這一塊我覺得是"},{"start":9847.91,"end":9848.91,"text":"比較弱"},{"start":9848.91,"end":9850.91,"text":"我特別去看了一下"},{"start":9851.79,"end":9854.79,"text":"你們的臉書"},{"start":9854.79,"end":9858.79,"text":"那臉書的第一個它的效果很差"},{"start":9858.79,"end":9859.79,"text":"我不敢說有限"},{"start":9859.79,"end":9860.79,"text":"我都不想講有限很差"},{"start":9860.79,"end":9861.79,"text":"因為你可以去"},{"start":9861.79,"end":9864.79,"text":"主委你平常會去你們自己的核安會臉書去看嗎"},{"start":9865.55,"end":9866.55,"text":"你們平常會看嗎"},{"start":9866.55,"end":9868.55,"text":"你知道最近一篇發文是什麼嗎"},{"start":9869.6,"end":9871.6,"text":"我不知道"},{"start":9871.6,"end":9875.6,"text":"所以核安這位這個網站的發文都是誰負責"},{"start":9877.41,"end":9880.41,"text":"報告委員是我們同仁至己當小編"},{"start":9880.41,"end":9881.41,"text":"小編直接發"},{"start":9881.41,"end":9883.41,"text":"就是都不需要核安會的"},{"start":9883.41,"end":9884.41,"text":"我們這個主管有看過"},{"start":9884.41,"end":9886.41,"text":"主管最高層級是到哪裡"},{"start":9886.41,"end":9887.41,"text":"到組長"},{"start":9887.94,"end":9889.94,"text":"就是我有看過"},{"start":9889.94,"end":9890.94,"text":"所以你知道最新一篇是什麼嗎"},{"start":9890.94,"end":9893.94,"text":"他在講那個αβγ"},{"start":9893.94,"end":9894.94,"text":"他有一張圖"},{"start":9894.94,"end":9896.94,"text":"我是不曉得為什麼"},{"start":9896.94,"end":9897.94,"text":"我們每天都會看"},{"start":9897.94,"end":9900.94,"text":"政府機關對外溝通都要搞得好像學術發表一樣"},{"start":9900.94,"end":9903.94,"text":"你的臉書是給專業人士看的嗎"},{"start":9903.94,"end":9905.94,"text":"還是希望給一般民眾看"},{"start":9906.55,"end":9909.55,"text":"我們當然希望給一般民眾也能看得懂"},{"start":9909.55,"end":9911.55,"text":"那問題是如果給一般民眾看的話"},{"start":9911.55,"end":9913.55,"text":"你的用詞潛質這麼專業"},{"start":9913.55,"end":9915.55,"text":"大家要怎麼看"},{"start":9915.55,"end":9917.55,"text":"你當然要把它變成類似科普"},{"start":9917.55,"end":9920.55,"text":"或是用比較白話的方式"},{"start":9920.55,"end":9921.55,"text":"謝謝委員指導"},{"start":9921.55,"end":9923.55,"text":"這個我們會繼續努力"},{"start":9923.55,"end":9925.55,"text":"因為確實比較尖色"},{"start":9925.55,"end":9929.55,"text":"我們會盡量用白話的方式讓一般民眾都能夠接受"},{"start":9929.55,"end":9933.55,"text":"第一個就是你寫作的方式"},{"start":9933.55,"end":9935.55,"text":"我覺得有很大的改進空間"},{"start":9935.55,"end":9937.55,"text":"所以你的成效很差"},{"start":9937.55,"end":9939.55,"text":"比如說按讚數"},{"start":9939.55,"end":9942.55,"text":"甚至於它的觸及率、流染數可能都不高"},{"start":9942.55,"end":9945.55,"text":"第二個問題就是我剛剛講的"},{"start":9945.55,"end":9949.55,"text":"像我自己就比較關心核電廠重啟社會共識的部分"},{"start":9949.55,"end":9954.55,"text":"可是你們對於核電廠的部分其實著墨是很少的"},{"start":9954.55,"end":9955.55,"text":"像我是有看到"},{"start":9955.55,"end":9958.55,"text":"比如說像你們4月8號有一個標題"},{"start":9958.55,"end":9960.55,"text":"叫核電廠內政安全"},{"start":9960.55,"end":9961.55,"text":"然後冒號"},{"start":9961.55,"end":9963.55,"text":"科學實證專業監督"},{"start":9963.55,"end":9965.55,"text":"然後寫了三個標準"},{"start":9965.55,"end":9968.55,"text":"第一個標準叫做原始設計基準"},{"start":9968.55,"end":9971.55,"text":"要讓它奠定穩固安全餘裕"},{"start":9971.55,"end":9973.55,"text":"第二個地震危害評估"},{"start":9973.55,"end":9975.55,"text":"要讓它滾動式科學再評估"},{"start":9975.55,"end":9977.55,"text":"第三個整體安全強化"},{"start":9977.55,"end":9979.55,"text":"要監督落實防護神奇"},{"start":9979.55,"end":9980.55,"text":"我跟你們講"},{"start":9980.55,"end":9982.55,"text":"我覺得你們有寫跟沒寫一樣"},{"start":9982.55,"end":9984.55,"text":"所以你們是認為怎樣"},{"start":9985.05,"end":9988.05,"text":"現在你除了是薰"},{"start":9988.58,"end":9990.58,"text":"就是不答說你會專業監督之外"},{"start":9990.58,"end":9991.58,"text":"你想要表達什麼"},{"start":9991.58,"end":9993.58,"text":"比如說在這篇文上面"},{"start":9993.58,"end":9995.58,"text":"是 跟委員報告一下"},{"start":9995.58,"end":9998.58,"text":"因為這陣子再運轉的議題很夯"},{"start":9998.58,"end":10000.58,"text":"所以我們在4月10號那幾篇"},{"start":10000.58,"end":10003.58,"text":"我們都會盡量用圖表的方式"},{"start":10003.58,"end":10005.58,"text":"把我們的審查程序"},{"start":10005.58,"end":10007.58,"text":"還有民眾關切的議題"},{"start":10007.58,"end":10010.58,"text":"我們盡量用圖表的方式呈現"},{"start":10010.58,"end":10013.58,"text":"有可能沒有這麼達到委員的要求"},{"start":10013.58,"end":10015.58,"text":"有圖表啦"},{"start":10015.58,"end":10017.58,"text":"但是大家不太知道你到底想要表達什麼"},{"start":10017.58,"end":10019.58,"text":"你是想要表達什麼"},{"start":10019.58,"end":10020.58,"text":"你是想要跟大家解釋"},{"start":10020.58,"end":10021.58,"text":"你們的這個"},{"start":10023.16,"end":10025.16,"text":"在運轉計畫的審查"},{"start":10025.16,"end":10026.16,"text":"你們的標準"},{"start":10026.16,"end":10029.16,"text":"還是你是想要告訴大家說"},{"start":10029.16,"end":10030.16,"text":"其實是安全的"},{"start":10030.16,"end":10032.16,"text":"然後那陣子都OK"},{"start":10032.16,"end":10034.16,"text":"你是想要表達什麼嗎"},{"start":10034.16,"end":10035.16,"text":"就是像我去看"},{"start":10035.16,"end":10037.16,"text":"我會不知道你想要跟社會大眾"},{"start":10037.16,"end":10038.16,"text":"你想要跟社會大眾講什麼"},{"start":10038.16,"end":10039.16,"text":"我不知道"},{"start":10039.16,"end":10040.16,"text":"跟委員報告一下"},{"start":10040.16,"end":10042.16,"text":"我們那一篇主要是要表達說"},{"start":10042.16,"end":10044.16,"text":"那些名詞到底是什麼"},{"start":10045.13,"end":10046.13,"text":"然後第二個就是說"},{"start":10046.13,"end":10048.13,"text":"我們的標準到底是要什麼"},{"start":10048.45,"end":10050.45,"text":"可以讓民眾放心"},{"start":10050.45,"end":10052.45,"text":"這個如果文字寫得不夠理想"},{"start":10052.45,"end":10054.45,"text":"我們會再努力"},{"start":10054.45,"end":10056.45,"text":"就是第一個"},{"start":10056.45,"end":10057.45,"text":"我覺得訴求要明確啦"},{"start":10057.45,"end":10058.45,"text":"就是你到底發這個文"},{"start":10058.45,"end":10060.45,"text":"到底是要講什麼事情"},{"start":10060.45,"end":10061.45,"text":"這是第一件事情"},{"start":10061.45,"end":10063.45,"text":"第二件事我覺得篇幅太少了"},{"start":10063.45,"end":10064.45,"text":"還是要"},{"start":10064.45,"end":10067.45,"text":"如果說要朝向社會公司這個角度"},{"start":10067.45,"end":10069.45,"text":"其實你們可以多做一些啦"},{"start":10069.45,"end":10070.45,"text":"當然那個"},{"start":10071.67,"end":10073.67,"text":"我知道你們會扯到什麼預算什麼怎樣"},{"start":10073.67,"end":10075.67,"text":"因為之前好像也有討論過這個議題"},{"start":10075.67,"end":10077.67,"text":"但我也有跟大家建議過"},{"start":10077.67,"end":10079.67,"text":"因為你這個都要採取一種"},{"start":10080.48,"end":10081.48,"text":"打蛇水棍上的方式"},{"start":10081.48,"end":10083.48,"text":"因為現在社會很關注這個議題"},{"start":10083.48,"end":10085.48,"text":"所以你可以針對這個議題被討論的時候"},{"start":10085.48,"end":10089.48,"text":"趕快利用話題然後去做宣傳"},{"start":10089.48,"end":10091.48,"text":"那就可以吸引大家來看嘛"},{"start":10091.48,"end":10092.48,"text":"對不對像上次"},{"start":10092.48,"end":10094.48,"text":"不是有一個民進黨的青年才俊"},{"start":10094.48,"end":10097.48,"text":"現在要被民進黨提名選之下是議員的"},{"start":10097.48,"end":10098.48,"text":"他都不曉得啦"},{"start":10098.48,"end":10101.48,"text":"他以為說好像把瓶裝水放到"},{"start":10101.48,"end":10104.48,"text":"那個蘭嶼的滴雞和肺尿的保管場"},{"start":10104.48,"end":10105.48,"text":"然後就不能喝了"},{"start":10105.48,"end":10107.48,"text":"有沒有然後後來"},{"start":10107.48,"end":10108.48,"text":"他還跑去國民黨踢館"},{"start":10108.48,"end":10110.48,"text":"就被國民黨的青年軍一飲而盡"},{"start":10110.48,"end":10111.48,"text":"他還嚇一跳"},{"start":10111.48,"end":10112.48,"text":"原來可以喝喔"},{"start":10112.48,"end":10114.48,"text":"你看一個要被提名直轄市議員的"},{"start":10114.48,"end":10116.48,"text":"執政黨的青年才俊優秀青年"},{"start":10118.06,"end":10119.06,"text":"他不曉得耶"},{"start":10119.06,"end":10121.06,"text":"主委你不會覺得很誇張嗎"},{"start":10122.2,"end":10125.2,"text":"你覺得那個瓶裝水放到蘭嶼可以喝嗎"},{"start":10125.2,"end":10127.2,"text":"旁邊那儲存場旁邊放一個晚上可不可以喝"},{"start":10129.38,"end":10131.38,"text":"就應該沒問題啦"},{"start":10131.38,"end":10133.38,"text":"沒問題可是執政黨的"},{"start":10133.38,"end":10135.38,"text":"要選直轄市議員的人不曉得啊"},{"start":10135.38,"end":10137.38,"text":"這就是一個很大的問題嘛"},{"start":10137.38,"end":10140.38,"text":"那像出現這件事情的時候"},{"start":10140.38,"end":10141.38,"text":"你就可以趁這個機會"},{"start":10142.22,"end":10146.22,"text":"跟大家講說這個其實放在蘭嶼儲存場旁邊"},{"start":10146.22,"end":10148.22,"text":"是OK的因為我們有什麼保護措施"},{"start":10148.22,"end":10151.22,"text":"會讓那個地間核廢料輻射不至於跑出來"},{"start":10151.22,"end":10154.22,"text":"或是輻射在一定的情況之下它是安全的"},{"start":10154.22,"end":10156.22,"text":"你就利用這個機會跟大家解釋"},{"start":10156.22,"end":10158.22,"text":"因為跟大家攸關大家的健康"},{"start":10158.22,"end":10161.22,"text":"而且是熱門的話題大家就會去看啊"},{"start":10161.22,"end":10162.22,"text":"不是嗎"},{"start":10162.22,"end":10163.22,"text":"類似這樣子"},{"start":10163.22,"end":10166.22,"text":"對不對是不是更可以達到宣傳的效果"},{"start":10166.22,"end":10169.22,"text":"然後再來就是這兩天也有個議題啊"},{"start":10170.22,"end":10173.22,"text":"民進黨提名要選台北市長的這個沈伯洋"},{"start":10173.22,"end":10177.22,"text":"他就說要幫他回答解決電的問題"},{"start":10177.22,"end":10181.22,"text":"其實回答一開始他的執行長黃仁勳"},{"start":10181.22,"end":10183.22,"text":"就一直在講說要用核電要用核電"},{"start":10183.22,"end":10185.22,"text":"為什麼因為產業界最怕缺電"},{"start":10185.22,"end":10187.22,"text":"那核電是最安全的"},{"start":10187.22,"end":10189.22,"text":"那大家都要買那種沒有碳的電"},{"start":10190.4,"end":10192.4,"text":"但是你不管是光電也好"},{"start":10192.4,"end":10193.4,"text":"或者是風電也好"},{"start":10193.4,"end":10194.4,"text":"它不是積載的嗎"},{"start":10194.4,"end":10196.4,"text":"它供應不穩定"},{"start":10197.49,"end":10200.49,"text":"核電又不會有碳又很穩定"},{"start":10200.49,"end":10202.49,"text":"所以產業界都很希望有核電"},{"start":10202.49,"end":10204.49,"text":"這是回答黃仁勳講的"},{"start":10204.49,"end":10206.49,"text":"然後沈伯洋講說"},{"start":10206.49,"end":10208.49,"text":"對台北市要幫他回答解決電的問題"},{"start":10208.49,"end":10209.49,"text":"那後來被人家罵嘛"},{"start":10209.49,"end":10211.49,"text":"就說你不是反對核電嗎"},{"start":10211.49,"end":10212.49,"text":"當時核管法你反對啊"},{"start":10212.49,"end":10213.49,"text":"也在亂罵啊"},{"start":10213.49,"end":10216.49,"text":"然後那時候民進黨都是因為我們通過核管法"},{"start":10216.49,"end":10218.49,"text":"罷免我們啊大罷免大成功啊"},{"start":10218.49,"end":10220.49,"text":"我是不知道主委那時候在院會有沒有看到"},{"start":10220.49,"end":10221.49,"text":"就是大罷免大成功"},{"start":10221.49,"end":10223.49,"text":"結果現在用我們通過的法"},{"start":10223.49,"end":10224.49,"text":"現在要重啟核電了"},{"start":10224.49,"end":10225.49,"text":"那當然要批評他"},{"start":10225.49,"end":10226.49,"text":"當然要批評他"},{"start":10226.49,"end":10228.49,"text":"然後他就舉了個例子說什麼"},{"start":10228.49,"end":10229.49,"text":"接水"},{"start":10229.49,"end":10231.49,"text":"他說這個不同的層次問題啊"},{"start":10231.49,"end":10233.49,"text":"他講的是變電所電網啊"},{"start":10233.49,"end":10235.49,"text":"怎麼會跟核電有關啊"},{"start":10235.49,"end":10236.49,"text":"就像接水管"},{"start":10236.49,"end":10237.49,"text":"他叫人家接水管"},{"start":10237.49,"end":10239.49,"text":"那你罵他反對水力發電"},{"start":10239.49,"end":10240.49,"text":"這不一樣的問題啊"},{"start":10240.49,"end":10243.49,"text":"你今天如果沒有源頭的電的話"},{"start":10243.49,"end":10245.49,"text":"你就算有電網也沒用啊"},{"start":10245.49,"end":10247.49,"text":"今天如果水資源不夠的話"},{"start":10247.49,"end":10248.49,"text":"你接水管也不會有水啊"},{"start":10248.49,"end":10250.49,"text":"所以當然我覺得是不同層次"},{"start":10250.49,"end":10252.49,"text":"但是相關的議題嘛"},{"start":10252.49,"end":10254.49,"text":"那所以比如說"},{"start":10254.49,"end":10256.49,"text":"主委假設你們核安會"},{"start":10256.49,"end":10259.49,"text":"你們是當然是站在核安的角度在處理這事"},{"start":10259.49,"end":10261.49,"text":"可是如果你認為"},{"start":10261.49,"end":10262.49,"text":"你也是閣員的"},{"start":10262.49,"end":10264.49,"text":"你也是政府的議題嘛"},{"start":10264.49,"end":10266.49,"text":"你認為這個核電廠安全沒問題"},{"start":10266.49,"end":10268.49,"text":"而且可以解決缺電的問題"},{"start":10268.49,"end":10271.49,"text":"那你你們也可以利用你們的網站"},{"start":10271.49,"end":10273.49,"text":"或是各方面的宣傳管道告訴大家"},{"start":10273.49,"end":10276.49,"text":"其實核電廠是沒有大家想像這麼恐怖的"},{"start":10276.49,"end":10279.49,"text":"不像那時候在討論核管法的時候"},{"start":10279.49,"end":10280.49,"text":"那時候很多謠言"},{"start":10280.49,"end":10282.49,"text":"然後讓大家恐嚇"},{"start":10282.49,"end":10286.49,"text":"我覺得你們要適時的做一些利用這個機會做宣傳"},{"start":10287.26,"end":10289.26,"text":"然後那你們這你們今年的"},{"start":10290.38,"end":10292.38,"text":"編的這個預算大概多少宣傳費"},{"start":10294.1,"end":10296.1,"text":"有關於"},{"start":10295.82,"end":10298.82,"text":"有關於這個核子能安全管制處理合費或"},{"start":10298.82,"end":10300.82,"text":"科學推廣的相關政策"},{"start":10300.82,"end":10304.82,"text":"業務的媒體宣傳製作脫鉑刊登經費"},{"start":10304.82,"end":10305.82,"text":"是"},{"start":10306.06,"end":10308.06,"text":"是變多少"},{"start":10307.9,"end":10308.9,"text":"28萬日"},{"start":10309.42,"end":10311.42,"text":"那大概知道做什麼"},{"start":10313,"end":10315,"text":"跟委員報告因為只有28萬"},{"start":10315,"end":10318,"text":"通常我們都會跟這個在一些"},{"start":10318,"end":10320,"text":"看能廣告"},{"start":10320,"end":10322,"text":"然後介紹核安會到底在做什麼"},{"start":10322,"end":10324,"text":"讓人家能夠進一步認識核安會"},{"start":10324,"end":10326,"text":"新任核安會"},{"start":10326,"end":10327,"text":"你把一個那個"},{"start":10327,"end":10328,"text":"把你們這"},{"start":10328,"end":10330,"text":"怎麼宣傳給我一份報告"},{"start":10330,"end":10331,"text":"沒問題"},{"start":10331,"end":10332,"text":"我來看一下你們的成效"},{"start":10332,"end":10334,"text":"不是說雖然28萬不多"},{"start":10334,"end":10336,"text":"但也不是說有做就好"},{"start":10336,"end":10337,"text":"感覺不是很重視這一塊"},{"start":10337,"end":10338,"text":"有做就好"},{"start":10338,"end":10339,"text":"我有貼文就好"},{"start":10339,"end":10340,"text":"但是有沒有看不是我的重點"},{"start":10340,"end":10343,"text":"我覺得既然要做就要達到宣傳效果"},{"start":10343,"end":10344,"text":"另外就是科展"},{"start":10345.46,"end":10347.46,"text":"沒有辦那些科普的展嘛"},{"start":10347.46,"end":10348.46,"text":"對不對"},{"start":10348.46,"end":10349.46,"text":"效果怎麼樣"},{"start":10349.28,"end":10351.28,"text":"因為我們是我們的同仁"},{"start":10351.28,"end":10353.28,"text":"直接面對面跟民眾溝通"},{"start":10353.28,"end":10355.28,"text":"每次的效果都還算不錯"},{"start":10356.06,"end":10357.06,"text":"不錯是怎麼判斷"},{"start":10357.06,"end":10358.06,"text":"因為我們"},{"start":10358.06,"end":10360.06,"text":"不錯是核安會覺得不錯還是大家覺得不錯"},{"start":10360.06,"end":10362.06,"text":"我們有請他填問卷調查"},{"start":10362.06,"end":10364.06,"text":"然後我們也會回收"},{"start":10364.06,"end":10366.06,"text":"我們會統計分析"},{"start":10366.06,"end":10368.06,"text":"然後當作下一次進一步的參考"},{"start":10368.06,"end":10370.06,"text":"整個看起來"},{"start":10370.06,"end":10372.06,"text":"民眾的反應都還不錯"},{"start":10372.06,"end":10373.06,"text":"科展可以辦啦"},{"start":10373.06,"end":10374.06,"text":"我沒有意見啦"},{"start":10374.06,"end":10376.06,"text":"但我剛剛講的"},{"start":10376.06,"end":10378.06,"text":"針對廣大的社會大眾作權"},{"start":10378.06,"end":10380.06,"text":"畢竟科展還是針對特定人"},{"start":10380.92,"end":10381.92,"text":"要加強了"},{"start":10382.23,"end":10383.23,"text":"好不好"},{"start":10383.23,"end":10384.23,"text":"因為這馬上就要面對了"},{"start":10384.23,"end":10385.23,"text":"如果你再運轉計畫"},{"start":10385.23,"end":10388.23,"text":"比如說你你們說最快是2028嘛"},{"start":10388.23,"end":10390.23,"text":"那時候馬上就要面對社會有沒有共識的問題"},{"start":10390.23,"end":10392.23,"text":"這過程當中我覺得就要加強了"},{"start":10392.23,"end":10394.23,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":10394.4,"end":10396.4,"text":"謝謝葉雲之委員的諮詢"},{"start":10396.4,"end":10398.4,"text":"請主委回座"},{"start":10398.79,"end":10401.79,"text":"下一位有請非常辛苦"},{"start":10401.79,"end":10403.79,"text":"高鐵故障誤點"},{"start":10403.79,"end":10405.79,"text":"現在平安"},{"start":10405.79,"end":10407.79,"text":"抵達我們教育文化委員會的"},{"start":10407.79,"end":10409.79,"text":"羅廷瑋教委進行巡達"},{"start":10413.77,"end":10416.77,"text":"好謝謝我們召委"},{"start":10416.77,"end":10419.77,"text":"非常感謝今天大誤點"},{"start":10419.77,"end":10421.77,"text":"我一大早就搭高鐵到現在才到"},{"start":10422.7,"end":10424.7,"text":"感謝召委"},{"start":10424.7,"end":10426.7,"text":"我們有請主委"},{"start":10426.7,"end":10428.7,"text":"請陳主委"},{"start":10433.9,"end":10436.9,"text":"好那有建議非常感謝召委"},{"start":10436.9,"end":10439.9,"text":"所以第一題我要現在為偏鄉發聲"},{"start":10439.9,"end":10441.9,"text":"那為什麼要這樣說"},{"start":10441.9,"end":10443.9,"text":"我覺得4月22日"},{"start":10443.9,"end":10446.9,"text":"牙醫師全聯會有提出移動式的牙科"},{"start":10446.9,"end":10448.9,"text":"我們X光機"},{"start":10448.9,"end":10450.9,"text":"現在面對這個牙科"},{"start":10450.9,"end":10454.9,"text":"我們的跟間X光機必須設置在獨立的X光室"},{"start":10454.9,"end":10457.9,"text":"這兩個議題就繼續來就教主委"},{"start":10457.9,"end":10459.9,"text":"因為這個對於我們偏鄉"},{"start":10459.9,"end":10461.9,"text":"在做這樣相關的治療"},{"start":10461.9,"end":10463.9,"text":"都非常非常的關切"},{"start":10463.9,"end":10465.9,"text":"所以我認為這個議題是非常重要的"},{"start":10465.9,"end":10468.9,"text":"那因為上次時間來不及讓主委回答"},{"start":10468.9,"end":10471.9,"text":"那這個主委是不是可以先簡單回應一下"},{"start":10471.9,"end":10475.9,"text":"3月9日那天你跟牙醫師全聯會見面的時候"},{"start":10475.9,"end":10477.9,"text":"交換了哪些意見"},{"start":10478.25,"end":10480.25,"text":"牙醫師公會"},{"start":10480.25,"end":10482.25,"text":"他是希望"},{"start":10483.11,"end":10485.11,"text":"第一在偏鄉"},{"start":10485.11,"end":10487.11,"text":"能夠使用移動式的"},{"start":10487.11,"end":10491.11,"text":"手持的X光機"},{"start":10491.8,"end":10493.8,"text":"第二他也希望在"},{"start":10494.15,"end":10496.15,"text":"行動不便的特殊病人"},{"start":10496.15,"end":10498.15,"text":"可以讓牙醫師"},{"start":10498.15,"end":10501.15,"text":"持手持一式的X光機"},{"start":10501.15,"end":10503.15,"text":"在診療室旁邊使用"},{"start":10503.15,"end":10505.15,"text":"這些的要求"},{"start":10505.15,"end":10506.15,"text":"這是他們的訴求嘛"},{"start":10506.15,"end":10508.15,"text":"其實我們一直不斷的在倡議"},{"start":10508.15,"end":10510.15,"text":"那你的回應呢"},{"start":10510.15,"end":10512.15,"text":"對我們"},{"start":10512.22,"end":10514.22,"text":"核安會的立場是這樣"},{"start":10514.22,"end":10516.22,"text":"我們因為科技的進步等等"},{"start":10516.22,"end":10518.22,"text":"國際上的標準"},{"start":10518.22,"end":10522.22,"text":"我們都會一直在做滾動式檢討"},{"start":10522.22,"end":10524.22,"text":"然後我們會跟國際的組織"},{"start":10524.22,"end":10528.22,"text":"像ICRP IAEA的管制原則"},{"start":10528.22,"end":10531.22,"text":"我們一直在做滾動式檢討"},{"start":10531.22,"end":10535.22,"text":"確保醫護人員民眾的服飾安全"},{"start":10535.22,"end":10537.22,"text":"是這個我們都關切啦"},{"start":10537.22,"end":10539.22,"text":"我想核安會的核心立場喔"},{"start":10539.22,"end":10541.22,"text":"這個就是一般牙科間"},{"start":10541.22,"end":10543.22,"text":"因為使用頻率高"},{"start":10543.22,"end":10544.22,"text":"都會去人口密集"},{"start":10544.22,"end":10546.22,"text":"整間多為開放式空間"},{"start":10546.22,"end":10548.22,"text":"所以人以裝屬X光式來做"},{"start":10548.22,"end":10550.22,"text":"這樣子的一個屏蔽設計"},{"start":10550.22,"end":10553.22,"text":"但是福安的一個測試合格後"},{"start":10553.22,"end":10554.22,"text":"才能夠使用嘛"},{"start":10554.22,"end":10557.22,"text":"但是作為常態的管制基準"},{"start":10557.22,"end":10559.22,"text":"同時核安會也承認"},{"start":10559.22,"end":10561.22,"text":"三類特殊的一個情境"},{"start":10561.22,"end":10563.22,"text":"需要例外的機制"},{"start":10563.22,"end":10565.22,"text":"所以包括整間行動不便者"},{"start":10565.22,"end":10568.22,"text":"可以用核移動式的X光機"},{"start":10568.22,"end":10569.22,"text":"診療台師座"},{"start":10569.22,"end":10571.22,"text":"居家醫療已經有指引"},{"start":10571.22,"end":10573.22,"text":"部分核准的案例"},{"start":10573.22,"end":10576.22,"text":"偏鄉醫療人在研議定定"},{"start":10576.22,"end":10577.22,"text":"我覺得這個密度啊"},{"start":10577.22,"end":10580.22,"text":"是不是更積極的來做"},{"start":10580.22,"end":10583.22,"text":"國際的一些組織對接了解"},{"start":10583.22,"end":10585.22,"text":"最後能夠來我們來"},{"start":10585.22,"end":10587.22,"text":"研議這樣子的一個規範"},{"start":10587.22,"end":10588.22,"text":"我想要替全國牙醫師"},{"start":10588.22,"end":10590.22,"text":"反映一個很現實的問題"},{"start":10590.22,"end":10592.22,"text":"第一線不是不要安全"},{"start":10592.9,"end":10594.9,"text":"就像今天大霧點啊"},{"start":10594.9,"end":10596.9,"text":"我們也不可能要求高鐵"},{"start":10596.9,"end":10598.9,"text":"你趕快快一點不行"},{"start":10598.9,"end":10599.9,"text":"安全第一啊"},{"start":10599.9,"end":10601.9,"text":"寧願慢到不要永遠不到啊"},{"start":10603.46,"end":10606.46,"text":"但現在的這些整間的人員也是啊"},{"start":10606.46,"end":10608.46,"text":"他們不是不要安全啊"},{"start":10608.78,"end":10612.78,"text":"但是現在的制度設計常常讓有醫療需求的病人用不到啊"},{"start":10612.78,"end":10615.78,"text":"適當的牙科X光的診斷啊"},{"start":10615.78,"end":10617.78,"text":"核安會一再強調輻射的安全"},{"start":10617.78,"end":10618.78,"text":"這個方向我們支持"},{"start":10618.78,"end":10619.78,"text":"但是問題在於"},{"start":10619.78,"end":10623.78,"text":"現行管制是否已經跟上了整個實際醫療的情境"},{"start":10623.78,"end":10626.78,"text":"尤其高齡、失能、偏鄉"},{"start":10626.78,"end":10630.78,"text":"以及居家醫療的一個巡迴服務的需要嘛"},{"start":10630.78,"end":10633.78,"text":"所以核安會也承認多元情境的存在"},{"start":10633.78,"end":10637.78,"text":"才可以例外開放的三種特殊情境"},{"start":10637.78,"end":10638.78,"text":"那可以有例外"},{"start":10638.78,"end":10641.78,"text":"但是整間的特殊需求"},{"start":10641.78,"end":10644.78,"text":"可在整療台時間"},{"start":10644.78,"end":10647.78,"text":"這樣子的外面使用這個移動式的設備"},{"start":10649.2,"end":10652.2,"text":"居家跟偏鄉未有推動多年都還是不普及"},{"start":10653.16,"end":10656.16,"text":"103年就有居家牙科醫療"},{"start":10656.16,"end":10659.16,"text":"我們的扶防的鋼藥"},{"start":10660.49,"end":10663.49,"text":"卻對現在尚無院所申請"},{"start":10664.21,"end":10665.21,"text":"相對的"},{"start":10665.21,"end":10670.21,"text":"114年在宅X光來做檢查"},{"start":10670.21,"end":10673.21,"text":"已核准19家醫療院所"},{"start":10673.21,"end":10676.21,"text":"請問主委為什麼103年的牙科X光機"},{"start":10676.21,"end":10681.21,"text":"居家醫療扶防鋼要零申請"},{"start":10682.17,"end":10684.17,"text":"這部分請張組長"},{"start":10686.24,"end":10688.24,"text":"那個跟委員報告"},{"start":10688.24,"end":10692.24,"text":"其實在跟牙醫全聯會有做一些交流的時候"},{"start":10692.24,"end":10694.24,"text":"也有提到這個問題"},{"start":10694.24,"end":10696.24,"text":"那可能在我們的"},{"start":10696.24,"end":10699.24,"text":"因為我們都有放在衛福部的一個網頁裡頭"},{"start":10699.24,"end":10702.24,"text":"那他們也希望我們能夠去加以宣導"},{"start":10702.24,"end":10704.24,"text":"那以及把跟在宅的這個"},{"start":10704.24,"end":10706.24,"text":"跟現在我們在推廣"},{"start":10706.24,"end":10709.24,"text":"其他的在宅X光的這種"},{"start":10709.24,"end":10712.24,"text":"這個胸腔的檢測能夠把它去一致"},{"start":10712.24,"end":10714.24,"text":"那這樣的話他們在推"},{"start":10714.24,"end":10716.24,"text":"我們的一個推廣"},{"start":10716.24,"end":10718.24,"text":"那這樣大家就可以有一個"},{"start":10718.24,"end":10719.24,"text":"一個更進步"},{"start":10719.24,"end":10722.24,"text":"那我們後續就會朝這部分來努力"},{"start":10722.24,"end":10723.24,"text":"好來我要講"},{"start":10723.24,"end":10725.24,"text":"如果制度設計合理"},{"start":10725.24,"end":10726.24,"text":"那就不會"},{"start":10726.24,"end":10728.24,"text":"怎麼會出現103年"},{"start":10728.24,"end":10730.24,"text":"我們的鋼要零申請"},{"start":10730.24,"end":10732.24,"text":"104年另立機制的時候"},{"start":10732.24,"end":10734.24,"text":"馬上19家就申請"},{"start":10734.24,"end":10736.24,"text":"這個落差馬上就出來"},{"start":10736.24,"end":10737.24,"text":"同樣是安全的要求"},{"start":10737.24,"end":10738.24,"text":"有的情境可以推動"},{"start":10738.24,"end":10740.24,"text":"有的情境13年來一件"},{"start":10740.24,"end":10741.24,"text":"都申請不出來"},{"start":10741.24,"end":10743.24,"text":"所以對偏鄉的醫療"},{"start":10743.24,"end":10744.24,"text":"和安會"},{"start":10744.24,"end":10746.24,"text":"現在人說正在研定"},{"start":10746.7,"end":10749.7,"text":"對於社區醫療站巡迴醫療的這個扶房設施"},{"start":10749.7,"end":10751.7,"text":"我要請問"},{"start":10751.7,"end":10753.7,"text":"偏鄉牙科資源不足"},{"start":10753.7,"end":10754.7,"text":"不是今天才知道"},{"start":10754.7,"end":10756.7,"text":"為什麼要到現在還在研議的階段"},{"start":10759.31,"end":10762.31,"text":"這邊因為我們其實我們在扶房法裡頭"},{"start":10762.31,"end":10763.31,"text":"有一個通則的"},{"start":10763.31,"end":10765.31,"text":"其實不同的場域都可以"},{"start":10765.31,"end":10768.31,"text":"但是他不是針對偏鄉醫療"},{"start":10768.31,"end":10771.31,"text":"這種類似像剛剛講的社區醫療站跟巡迴店"},{"start":10771.31,"end":10773.31,"text":"那現在我們就是等於"},{"start":10773.31,"end":10776.31,"text":"我們有配合衛福部在健保警務"},{"start":10776.31,"end":10779.31,"text":"他有明定這兩個情境的一個"},{"start":10779.31,"end":10781.31,"text":"使用規劃的條件"},{"start":10781.31,"end":10783.31,"text":"所以我們現在就是變成"},{"start":10783.31,"end":10785.31,"text":"是轉而客製化"},{"start":10785.31,"end":10787.31,"text":"然後我們會針對這個兩個來去"},{"start":10787.31,"end":10789.31,"text":"我希望還是要加速"},{"start":10789.31,"end":10793.31,"text":"第一線牙醫師願意下鄉願意進社區願意巡迴"},{"start":10793.31,"end":10796.31,"text":"服務主管機關不能停在這樣子的研議"},{"start":10796.31,"end":10798.31,"text":"偏鄉是缺法規"},{"start":10798.31,"end":10800.31,"text":"缺技術標準"},{"start":10800.31,"end":10802.31,"text":"缺跨部位整合"},{"start":10803.14,"end":10805.14,"text":"還是缺行政的決心"},{"start":10806.53,"end":10808.53,"text":"我們看得出來"},{"start":10808.53,"end":10810.53,"text":"不要再讓第一線的牙醫師"},{"start":10810.53,"end":10811.53,"text":"明明是想服務病人"},{"start":10811.53,"end":10813.53,"text":"卻卡在第一個用不到的制度"},{"start":10813.53,"end":10816.53,"text":"偏鄉看牙卡了這麼久"},{"start":10816.53,"end":10818.53,"text":"現在看清楚了"},{"start":10818.53,"end":10819.53,"text":"原來是制度入帳"},{"start":10819.53,"end":10823.53,"text":"還有在和安會現在目前需要再加油"},{"start":10824.15,"end":10826.15,"text":"主委"},{"start":10833.99,"end":10835.99,"text":"以後還有機會跟衛福部合作"},{"start":10835.99,"end":10838.99,"text":"只和一戰時的申辦諮詢"},{"start":10838.99,"end":10840.99,"text":"實施協助這個制度"},{"start":10840.99,"end":10841.99,"text":"真的要加油啦好不好"},{"start":10841.99,"end":10842.99,"text":"好"},{"start":10842.99,"end":10843.99,"text":"好加油"},{"start":10843.99,"end":10844.99,"text":"我們會努力"},{"start":10844.99,"end":10846.99,"text":"今天要跟和安會聊一個議題"},{"start":10846.99,"end":10848.99,"text":"白化紋運動"},{"start":10848.99,"end":10850.99,"text":"沒想到要跟你聊這個"},{"start":10850.99,"end":10853.99,"text":"主委我知道非常有深度的核能概念"},{"start":10853.99,"end":10855.99,"text":"講成白化有它的難度"},{"start":10855.99,"end":10857.99,"text":"但是我希望白化紋運動還是可以好好努力"},{"start":10857.99,"end":10859.99,"text":"剛剛就有委員在討論"},{"start":10859.99,"end":10862.99,"text":"到底要怎麼樣核知識能夠讓全民都知道"},{"start":10862.99,"end":10866.99,"text":"央行從2019年推動白化紋運動"},{"start":10866.99,"end":10867.99,"text":"央行"},{"start":10867.99,"end":10869.99,"text":"至今效果不錯"},{"start":10869.99,"end":10871.99,"text":"中研院言之有誤"},{"start":10872.78,"end":10874.78,"text":"也做得不錯"},{"start":10874.78,"end":10875.78,"text":"為什麼要推白化紋"},{"start":10875.78,"end":10877.78,"text":"我們來舉一個例子你聽聽看"},{"start":10878.28,"end":10880.28,"text":"來央行說明看一下"},{"start":10880.78,"end":10882.78,"text":"新台幣匯率有升有貶"},{"start":10882.78,"end":10887.78,"text":"央行持有的外幣資產折合新台幣金額"},{"start":10887.78,"end":10890.78,"text":"就會有未實現的平價損益"},{"start":10890.78,"end":10892.78,"text":"去年有匯損"},{"start":10892.78,"end":10894.78,"text":"但今年不但全數抵衝"},{"start":10894.78,"end":10897.78,"text":"還剩餘新台幣"},{"start":10898.72,"end":10900.72,"text":"1364億元"},{"start":10900.72,"end":10903.72,"text":"未實現平價利益"},{"start":10903.72,"end":10905.72,"text":"請問主委"},{"start":10906.35,"end":10908.35,"text":"您覺得央行今年到底有沒有匯損"},{"start":10909.77,"end":10911.77,"text":"你看完這句話"},{"start":10913.97,"end":10915.97,"text":"去年有匯損"},{"start":10916.52,"end":10917.52,"text":"今年沒有"},{"start":10918.02,"end":10919.02,"text":"今年沒有"},{"start":10919.02,"end":10921.02,"text":"但是您剛剛遲疑了一下"},{"start":10922.9,"end":10923.9,"text":"您單看"},{"start":10923.9,"end":10925.9,"text":"單聽字面你只會看到"},{"start":10925.9,"end":10927.9,"text":"聽到的是未實現平價利益"},{"start":10927.9,"end":10928.9,"text":"全數抵衝"},{"start":10928.9,"end":10931.9,"text":"那這樣到底是有匯損還是沒有匯損"},{"start":10931.9,"end":10932.9,"text":"我覺得對民眾來說"},{"start":10932.9,"end":10934.9,"text":"他在理解上"},{"start":10934.9,"end":10935.9,"text":"你的專有名詞講完了"},{"start":10935.9,"end":10937.9,"text":"可能大家聽不懂"},{"start":10937.9,"end":10939.9,"text":"所以才力求白化"},{"start":10939.9,"end":10940.9,"text":"要推動白化紋運動"},{"start":10940.9,"end":10943.9,"text":"要讓大家每個人都看得懂"},{"start":10943.9,"end":10945.9,"text":"所以和安議題也是"},{"start":10945.9,"end":10946.9,"text":"比如和安會"},{"start":10947.37,"end":10948.37,"text":"你的臉書"},{"start":10948.94,"end":10949.94,"text":"有提到一個"},{"start":10950.44,"end":10952.44,"text":"他之99M產生器"},{"start":10953.36,"end":10955.36,"text":"這是你們現在"},{"start":10955.91,"end":10957.91,"text":"的一個貼文"},{"start":10958.35,"end":10959.35,"text":"這段話很難懂"},{"start":10960.67,"end":10962.67,"text":"一般民眾大概也不像主委那麼厲害"},{"start":10963.91,"end":10964.91,"text":"但和安會"},{"start":10964.91,"end":10967.91,"text":"會想要把這些知識概念告訴國人的心"},{"start":10967.91,"end":10968.91,"text":"我沒有感受到"},{"start":10968.91,"end":10970.91,"text":"但是你把這個放上去"},{"start":10972.34,"end":10974.34,"text":"拜託我只是舉例而已"},{"start":10974.34,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稅入處理完畢"},{"start":11904.34,"end":11906.34,"text":"繼續處理稅初提案"},{"start":11906.34,"end":11908.34,"text":"處理時以幕獲結為單位"},{"start":11908.34,"end":11910.34,"text":"依序由各提案委員"},{"start":11910.34,"end":11912.34,"text":"先就提案內容進行說明"},{"start":11912.34,"end":11914.34,"text":"再由機關代表予以答覆"},{"start":11914.34,"end":11916.34,"text":"然後再依幕獲結做成結議"},{"start":11916.34,"end":11918.34,"text":"現在處理稅初部分"},{"start":11918.34,"end":11920.34,"text":"第十二項"},{"start":11920.34,"end":11922.34,"text":"核能安全委員會及所屬"},{"start":11922.34,"end":11923.34,"text":"通案部分"},{"start":11923.34,"end":11925.34,"text":"提案暗號第四案及第六案"},{"start":11925.34,"end":11927.34,"text":"派員出國計畫"},{"start":11927.34,"end":11929.34,"text":"含國外旅費"},{"start":11929.78,"end":11931.78,"text":"有沒有委員"},{"start":11932.06,"end":11934.06,"text":"對 四五六三案"},{"start":11934.06,"end":11936.06,"text":"好的 好 謝謝"},{"start":11936.06,"end":11937.06,"text":"我是第五案啦"},{"start":11937.06,"end":11938.06,"text":"但我目前為止"},{"start":11938.06,"end":11940.06,"text":"謝謝何安慧來跟我們做一個溝通"},{"start":11940.06,"end":11942.06,"text":"但是要留下一個記錄"},{"start":11942.06,"end":11944.06,"text":"我是願意把它改成主決議"},{"start":11944.06,"end":11946.06,"text":"但是還是懇請"},{"start":11946.06,"end":11948.06,"text":"目前來說你們的教育訓練費來說的話"},{"start":11948.06,"end":11950.06,"text":"是逐漸的減少"},{"start":11950.06,"end":11953.06,"text":"所以呢 我想在核電重啟的原則之下面"},{"start":11953.06,"end":11956.06,"text":"我想這個人力我一向都非常重視它的工作"},{"start":11956.06,"end":11958.06,"text":"那我想這個從"},{"start":11958.06,"end":11960.06,"text":"核三重啟的審查團隊的組成"},{"start":11960.06,"end":11962.06,"text":"我覺得你們還是要仰賴非常多"},{"start":11962.06,"end":11964.06,"text":"退休資深的員工來協助"},{"start":11964.06,"end":11966.06,"text":"跟我今天的質詢上"},{"start":11966.06,"end":11968.06,"text":"所以我想說這個訓練跟經驗的傳承"},{"start":11968.06,"end":11969.06,"text":"是刻不容緩"},{"start":11969.06,"end":11971.06,"text":"所以我希望這個未來的當中呢"},{"start":11971.06,"end":11973.06,"text":"有關於用不同的方法"},{"start":11973.06,"end":11974.06,"text":"留財補足人力"},{"start":11974.06,"end":11976.06,"text":"然後建立長期培訓的機制"},{"start":11976.06,"end":11978.06,"text":"我想這是非常重要的"},{"start":11978.06,"end":11980.06,"text":"所以我願意把它改成主決議"},{"start":11980.06,"end":11982.06,"text":"謝謝 好 謝謝柯珍委員"},{"start":11982.06,"end":11984.06,"text":"羅廷瑋召委"},{"start":11984.06,"end":11986.06,"text":"請"},{"start":11986.58,"end":11988.58,"text":"好 謝謝召委"},{"start":11988.58,"end":11990.58,"text":"那也非常感謝我們"},{"start":11990.58,"end":11992.58,"text":"核安會有來溝通啦"},{"start":11992.58,"end":11994.58,"text":"那我有幾個我就一併說明啦"},{"start":11994.58,"end":11995.58,"text":"簡單講"},{"start":11995.58,"end":11997.58,"text":"那我自己是第六案"},{"start":11997.58,"end":11999.58,"text":"69 17 22"},{"start":11999.58,"end":12001.58,"text":"我都改主決議"},{"start":12001.58,"end":12003.58,"text":"那感謝核安會來對我說明"},{"start":12003.58,"end":12005.58,"text":"那我也持續追蹤"},{"start":12005.58,"end":12007.58,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":12006.8,"end":12008.8,"text":"好 謝謝羅章偉"},{"start":12008.8,"end":12010.8,"text":"還有沒有其他委員"},{"start":12010.48,"end":12012.48,"text":"好 羅志強委員請"},{"start":12012.48,"end":12014.48,"text":"好 那核安會有來溝通"},{"start":12014.48,"end":12017.48,"text":"但是我還是表明一下我的立場"},{"start":12017.48,"end":12019.48,"text":"那我之前質詢跟主委說過"},{"start":12019.48,"end":12021.48,"text":"非核家園的錯誤"},{"start":12021.48,"end":12024.48,"text":"是讓學生不願意選擇核能專業"},{"start":12024.48,"end":12027.48,"text":"也造成核工人才斷層的危機"},{"start":12027.48,"end":12030.48,"text":"像這樣的一個所謂的非核十年"},{"start":12030.48,"end":12031.48,"text":"也就讓我們人才斷層十年"},{"start":12031.48,"end":12033.48,"text":"我必須很沉痛的說"},{"start":12033.48,"end":12034.48,"text":"因為我在政府服務過"},{"start":12034.48,"end":12036.48,"text":"我非常清楚的知道"},{"start":12036.48,"end":12038.48,"text":"台電在發展核能的過程當中"},{"start":12038.48,"end":12040.48,"text":"為我們國家留下非常多的"},{"start":12040.48,"end":12043.48,"text":"很棒優秀的核電的人才"},{"start":12043.48,"end":12045.48,"text":"那也帶動了很多相關科系"},{"start":12045.48,"end":12048.48,"text":"很多的優秀的青年願意投入相關科系"},{"start":12048.48,"end":12052.48,"text":"但這一個所謂的非核家園的這十年"},{"start":12052.48,"end":12055.48,"text":"造成我們這十年的人才斷層"},{"start":12055.48,"end":12056.48,"text":"這一點我覺得是"},{"start":12056.48,"end":12058.48,"text":"也威脅到將來的核能安全"},{"start":12058.48,"end":12060.48,"text":"所以因此我們的提案裡面"},{"start":12060.48,"end":12062.48,"text":"是特別是希望說"},{"start":12062.48,"end":12064.48,"text":"能夠讓相關單位能夠注意"},{"start":12064.48,"end":12066.48,"text":"認識到這件事情"},{"start":12066.48,"end":12068.48,"text":"這當然不只是核安會啦"},{"start":12068.48,"end":12071.48,"text":"跨部會都應該針對核工人才的規劃"},{"start":12071.48,"end":12073.48,"text":"提出妥善的辦法"},{"start":12073.48,"end":12074.48,"text":"以上"},{"start":12074.48,"end":12076.48,"text":"好 謝謝羅志強委員"},{"start":12076.48,"end":12078.48,"text":"那如果"},{"start":12079.16,"end":12083.16,"text":"沒有意見了我們需要請那個"},{"start":12083.16,"end":12086.16,"text":"核安會要不要做意見回覆"},{"start":12086.87,"end":12087.87,"text":"沒有吼"},{"start":12087.87,"end":12090.87,"text":"好 那大家如果沒有意見的話"},{"start":12090.87,"end":12092.87,"text":"經費的部分是照列嗎"},{"start":12094.01,"end":12096.01,"text":"好 謝謝大家"},{"start":12096.01,"end":12097.01,"text":"好"},{"start":12097.01,"end":12099.01,"text":"那我來宣讀審查結果"},{"start":12099.93,"end":12102.93,"text":"第十二項核能安全委員會及所屬通案部分"},{"start":12102.93,"end":12105.93,"text":"提案案號第四案及第六案"},{"start":12105.93,"end":12107.93,"text":"派員出國計畫含國外旅費"},{"start":12107.93,"end":12108.93,"text":"審查結果如下"},{"start":12108.93,"end":12110.93,"text":"第六案改為主決議"},{"start":12110.93,"end":12112.93,"text":"其餘預算照列"},{"start":12112.93,"end":12113.93,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":12115.02,"end":12117.02,"text":"好 五六"},{"start":12117.06,"end":12118.06,"text":"好"},{"start":12118.06,"end":12120.06,"text":"那沒關係 我就接著唸"},{"start":12120.06,"end":12123.06,"text":"接著處理第十二項核能安全委員會及所屬通案部分"},{"start":12123.06,"end":12125.06,"text":"提案案號第五案"},{"start":12125.06,"end":12126.06,"text":"業務費下"},{"start":12126.06,"end":12127.06,"text":"教育訓練費"},{"start":12127.06,"end":12129.06,"text":"那我直接宣讀審查結果"},{"start":12129.06,"end":12131.06,"text":"審查結果如下"},{"start":12131.06,"end":12133.06,"text":"第五案改為主決議"},{"start":12134.27,"end":12135.27,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":12135.27,"end":12138.27,"text":"接著處理第一幕一般行政"},{"start":12138.69,"end":12142.69,"text":"提案案號是第七案至第九案"},{"start":12142.69,"end":12145.69,"text":"好 有沒有委員要來做說明"},{"start":12147.97,"end":12150.97,"text":"好 那就那個了 我直接宣讀"},{"start":12150.97,"end":12154.97,"text":"好 第一幕一般行政提案案號第七案至第九案"},{"start":12154.97,"end":12155.97,"text":"審查結果如下"},{"start":12156.55,"end":12158.55,"text":"第九案改為主決議"},{"start":12158.55,"end":12159.55,"text":"其餘預算照列"},{"start":12159.55,"end":12160.55,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":12160.55,"end":12164.55,"text":"接著處理第二幕原子能管理發展業務第一節"},{"start":12164.55,"end":12166.55,"text":"原子能科學發展提案案號"},{"start":12166.55,"end":12169.55,"text":"第十案至第四十九案"},{"start":12169.55,"end":12170.55,"text":"有沒有委員"},{"start":12170.55,"end":12172.55,"text":"好 陳佩儀委員"},{"start":12172.55,"end":12174.55,"text":"好 蔡春筹委員"},{"start":12174.55,"end":12176.55,"text":"好 秀寶委員"},{"start":12176.55,"end":12177.55,"text":"柯志恩委員"},{"start":12179.09,"end":12180.09,"text":"好 謝謝主席"},{"start":12180.09,"end":12181.09,"text":"我是第23案"},{"start":12181.09,"end":12184.09,"text":"其實就是我今天早上在質詢的時候也說過了"},{"start":12184.09,"end":12187.09,"text":"相關的地方說明會我們如何積極的告知"},{"start":12187.09,"end":12190.09,"text":"然後積極的做相關專業知識的轉譯"},{"start":12190.09,"end":12193.09,"text":"同時我們把地方居民的聲音"},{"start":12193.09,"end":12196.09,"text":"更加積極的納入相關的委員會當中"},{"start":12196.09,"end":12200.09,"text":"那不是只有那時候你們來預算所說明的"},{"start":12200.09,"end":12204.09,"text":"所以雖然我這邊是寫凍結預算50案"},{"start":12204.09,"end":12206.09,"text":"可是我可以並按處理"},{"start":12206.09,"end":12208.09,"text":"那我但是我真的還是要拜託"},{"start":12208.09,"end":12210.09,"text":"何安慧跟台電公司這邊"},{"start":12210.09,"end":12212.09,"text":"去商議跟討論出來"},{"start":12212.09,"end":12214.09,"text":"更加積極的溝通"},{"start":12214.09,"end":12217.09,"text":"甚至還有相關民間團體的意見跟回覆"},{"start":12217.09,"end":12219.09,"text":"我覺得這件事情非常非常重要 謝謝"},{"start":12220.69,"end":12221.69,"text":"好 蔡正丞委員"},{"start":12222.81,"end":12225.81,"text":"接下來是秀寶委員 柯正委員 郭育晴委員"},{"start":12227.91,"end":12231.91,"text":"主席好 我針對事實"},{"start":12235.55,"end":12236.55,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":12238.54,"end":12240.54,"text":"針對24案來說明"},{"start":12240.54,"end":12242.54,"text":"那24案因為是"},{"start":12250.89,"end":12251.89,"text":"好"},{"start":12253.1,"end":12256.1,"text":"剛剛我有質詢"},{"start":12256.1,"end":12258.1,"text":"然後也有回覆"},{"start":12258.1,"end":12261.1,"text":"所以這個我可以改主結議"},{"start":12262.33,"end":12263.33,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":12272.32,"end":12273.32,"text":"那個"},{"start":12274.81,"end":12277.81,"text":"請何安慧能夠補充"},{"start":12277.81,"end":12279.81,"text":"115年度補助"},{"start":12279.81,"end":12281.81,"text":"國研業12"},{"start":12281.81,"end":12285.81,"text":"國研業12項重要計畫清測"},{"start":12285.81,"end":12287.81,"text":"金額還有執行力"},{"start":12287.81,"end":12290.81,"text":"KBI及里程碑"},{"start":12290.81,"end":12294.81,"text":"二是近年來行政查核發現切失"},{"start":12294.81,"end":12298.81,"text":"能夠改善進度以及是否列入績效評鑑"},{"start":12298.81,"end":12301.81,"text":"追蹤三是設施維穎人才"},{"start":12301.81,"end":12304.81,"text":"人才流失還有計畫里程碑"},{"start":12304.81,"end":12306.81,"text":"自籌款目標等風險項目"},{"start":12306.81,"end":12309.81,"text":"那目前風險等級級管制措施"},{"start":12309.81,"end":12312.81,"text":"還有第四項補助款"},{"start":12312.81,"end":12315.81,"text":"包覆以計畫執行力"},{"start":12315.81,"end":12317.81,"text":"查核結果還有計效評鑑結果"},{"start":12317.81,"end":12319.81,"text":"一個連動"},{"start":12319.81,"end":12323.81,"text":"第五國研院支援核設施除役"},{"start":12323.81,"end":12326.81,"text":"核廢料輻射防護"},{"start":12326.81,"end":12330.81,"text":"還有SMR研究海域監測等任務"},{"start":12330.81,"end":12335.81,"text":"資濟題成果能夠合理的提供報告"},{"start":12335.81,"end":12337.81,"text":"所以這一題就能夠"},{"start":12337.81,"end":12341.81,"text":"病案處理或者是改組結議都可以"},{"start":12341.81,"end":12346.81,"text":"再來病案說明第45案"},{"start":12348.53,"end":12349.53,"text":"45案啊"},{"start":12350.54,"end":12351.54,"text":"44案"},{"start":12354.23,"end":12356.23,"text":"44案"},{"start":12357.8,"end":12359.8,"text":"說明"},{"start":12359.8,"end":12360.8,"text":"希望呢"},{"start":12360.8,"end":12362.8,"text":"核安會能夠補充"},{"start":12362.8,"end":12365.8,"text":"115年8月起的使用執照"},{"start":12365.8,"end":12367.8,"text":"是否仍然可以達成"},{"start":12367.8,"end":12370.8,"text":"那第二第三劑設備硬抵後"},{"start":12370.8,"end":12375.8,"text":"安裝測試驗收還有收款時程"},{"start":12375.8,"end":12378.8,"text":"三國外廠商交貨遲延"},{"start":12378.8,"end":12381.8,"text":"品下違約經計算方式"},{"start":12381.8,"end":12383.8,"text":"及目前處理情形"},{"start":12383.8,"end":12385.8,"text":"是或是"},{"start":12385.8,"end":12389.8,"text":"試驗期應用計畫是否可以送審或核定"},{"start":12389.8,"end":12390.8,"text":"未來呢"},{"start":12390.8,"end":12395.8,"text":"在合一藥物衛星半導體產學研究"},{"start":12395.8,"end":12396.8,"text":"等方面呢"},{"start":12396.8,"end":12400.8,"text":"能夠使用力以及成果的一個KBI"},{"start":12400.8,"end":12401.8,"text":"能夠做一個報告"},{"start":12401.8,"end":12402.8,"text":"然後呢"},{"start":12402.8,"end":12405.8,"text":"這個可以改成組結議"},{"start":12407.35,"end":12409.35,"text":"那45案呢"},{"start":12410.37,"end":12413.37,"text":"希望能夠做一個補充"},{"start":12413.37,"end":12416.37,"text":"就是一海疫監測點位"},{"start":12416.37,"end":12419.37,"text":"還有頻率樣品種類及重要的"},{"start":12419.37,"end":12421.37,"text":"遺傳險定原則"},{"start":12421.37,"end":12426.37,"text":"二TWORIS資訊如何讓一般民眾"},{"start":12426.37,"end":12429.37,"text":"移民地方政府看得懂"},{"start":12429.37,"end":12432.37,"text":"三紅綠燈異常警示的一個啟動標準"},{"start":12432.37,"end":12436.37,"text":"通報對象及後續處理的SOP"},{"start":12436.37,"end":12438.37,"text":"是跨部會的一個平台"},{"start":12438.37,"end":12440.37,"text":"是小組是否能夠定期會議"},{"start":12440.37,"end":12442.37,"text":"會議結束是否公開"},{"start":12442.37,"end":12445.37,"text":"我們民眾跟移民對檢測結果"},{"start":12445.37,"end":12447.37,"text":"有疑慮的時候呢"},{"start":12447.37,"end":12451.37,"text":"是否有諮詢申訴後說明一個機制"},{"start":12451.37,"end":12453.37,"text":"那這個呢"},{"start":12455.24,"end":12458.24,"text":"是其他的委員討論的情況"},{"start":12458.24,"end":12461.24,"text":"然後呢來並案處理"},{"start":12461.24,"end":12462.24,"text":"以上"},{"start":12463.07,"end":12465.07,"text":"好謝謝蔡處長委員"},{"start":12465.07,"end":12466.07,"text":"接下來是秀寶委員"},{"start":12468.86,"end":12469.86,"text":"謝謝秀琪"},{"start":12469.86,"end":12472.86,"text":"在這一節裡面我的案子是第35案"},{"start":12472.86,"end":12474.86,"text":"35案的部分呢這個"},{"start":12474.86,"end":12477.86,"text":"這個預算主要是我們"},{"start":12478.9,"end":12483.9,"text":"核安會補助國家原子能科技研究所的這個研究經費"},{"start":12483.9,"end":12488.9,"text":"那在115年度的經費呢比114年度增列的4億多"},{"start":12488.9,"end":12492.9,"text":"在我們核安會的這個年度預算比例高達七成"},{"start":12492.9,"end":12497.9,"text":"那核國原會他這邊是"},{"start":12497.9,"end":12499.9,"text":"這個計畫主要是說"},{"start":12500.75,"end":12502.75,"text":"有一些計畫進度有落後"},{"start":12502.75,"end":12504.75,"text":"執行進度有落後"},{"start":12505.41,"end":12508.41,"text":"相關的這些原子能科技的研發呢"},{"start":12508.41,"end":12512.41,"text":"不管是包含合一關鍵藥物的供應與精準醫學"},{"start":12512.41,"end":12514.41,"text":"以及核子能技術應用"},{"start":12514.41,"end":12518.41,"text":"還有放射物質這個擴散與安全評估"},{"start":12518.41,"end":12522.41,"text":"還有能源技術研發及淨零排放等相關這些計畫"},{"start":12522.41,"end":12525.41,"text":"其實對我們的相關的技術呢"},{"start":12525.41,"end":12528.41,"text":"對我們相關的這些研究都非常的重要"},{"start":12528.41,"end":12531.41,"text":"那執行計畫執行有落後的這個部分"},{"start":12531.41,"end":12534.41,"text":"雖然核安會有來說明說"},{"start":12534.41,"end":12537.41,"text":"有要求國原會這邊要改善"},{"start":12537.41,"end":12540.41,"text":"而且有訂定績效評鑑的這個機制"},{"start":12540.41,"end":12543.41,"text":"來檢視計畫執行的狀況"},{"start":12543.41,"end":12545.41,"text":"那等一下我想請核安會這邊說明一下"},{"start":12545.41,"end":12548.41,"text":"目前落後的這些計畫有沒有"},{"start":12548.41,"end":12550.41,"text":"就是趕上這個規劃的進度"},{"start":12550.41,"end":12552.41,"text":"請你們等一下說明"},{"start":12552.41,"end":12554.41,"text":"那這個我本來是提供金額是200萬"},{"start":12554.41,"end":12555.41,"text":"我可以小動"},{"start":12555.41,"end":12557.41,"text":"跟其他的委員的案子並動"},{"start":12557.41,"end":12558.41,"text":"就是想動少一點"},{"start":12558.41,"end":12561.41,"text":"但是我是希望說"},{"start":12561.41,"end":12563.41,"text":"如果這個部分沒有"},{"start":12563.41,"end":12565.41,"text":"六十監督國原會這個"},{"start":12566.46,"end":12568.46,"text":"相關計畫的執行"},{"start":12568.46,"end":12571.46,"text":"我覺得核安這邊還是要再加把勁"},{"start":12571.46,"end":12572.46,"text":"以上"},{"start":12572.46,"end":12574.46,"text":"好 謝謝秀寶委員"},{"start":12574.46,"end":12576.46,"text":"接下來有請柯志恩委員"},{"start":12576.84,"end":12578.84,"text":"好 有關第二幕是這個"},{"start":12578.84,"end":12580.84,"text":"這個管理發展業務部分"},{"start":12580.84,"end":12581.84,"text":"我提的四案"},{"start":12581.84,"end":12584.84,"text":"都是我們可以分兩個層次來做一個處理"},{"start":12584.84,"end":12586.84,"text":"像第21案跟第54案"},{"start":12586.84,"end":12590.84,"text":"我個人認為應該並按動第二幕的100萬"},{"start":12590.84,"end":12591.84,"text":"原因其實是很簡單"},{"start":12591.84,"end":12594.84,"text":"因為你們在21案是有關於這個公共參與"},{"start":12594.84,"end":12595.84,"text":"跟這個民眾溝通"},{"start":12595.84,"end":12599.84,"text":"那我之前也特別受到相親的這樣子的一個處理"},{"start":12599.84,"end":12601.84,"text":"他說的確是公民參與是不夠"},{"start":12601.84,"end":12603.84,"text":"而且資訊公開的部分"},{"start":12603.84,"end":12605.84,"text":"他們認為也不夠充分"},{"start":12605.84,"end":12610.84,"text":"所以他就在網站被動的去做一些資訊的一個處理"},{"start":12610.84,"end":12612.84,"text":"所以大家當然希望這個"},{"start":12612.84,"end":12613.84,"text":"也要重啟"},{"start":12613.84,"end":12616.84,"text":"這個同樣要到屏東辦理這個道場說明"},{"start":12616.84,"end":12619.84,"text":"希望能夠進一步改善過去這個民眾所反應的"},{"start":12619.84,"end":12624.84,"text":"那第54案其實就是早年發生的放射線照相業的這個部分"},{"start":12624.84,"end":12626.84,"text":"因為有些因為資訊的隱匿"},{"start":12626.84,"end":12629.84,"text":"造成這些員工不幸的離世"},{"start":12629.84,"end":12631.84,"text":"那你們就說要強調"},{"start":12631.84,"end":12633.84,"text":"要來做這樣的檢驗"},{"start":12633.84,"end":12638.84,"text":"強調要提出這個遊離輻射保護法的修法來保障"},{"start":12638.84,"end":12640.84,"text":"但做了好久啊"},{"start":12640.84,"end":12642.84,"text":"這個也提出草案"},{"start":12642.84,"end":12646.84,"text":"然後因為從改組藉其不連續又沒有通過"},{"start":12646.84,"end":12647.84,"text":"這一會又從你草案"},{"start":12647.84,"end":12649.84,"text":"但草案到目前為止對不起"},{"start":12649.84,"end":12651.84,"text":"我還是躺在行政院"},{"start":12651.84,"end":12655.84,"text":"只要你多單個一天對於很多從業人員的這個健康"},{"start":12655.84,"end":12656.84,"text":"我覺得多了一份風險"},{"start":12656.84,"end":12657.84,"text":"所以呢"},{"start":12657.84,"end":12658.84,"text":"雖然你們來做說明"},{"start":12658.84,"end":12660.84,"text":"但是我想不管是跟民眾溝通"},{"start":12660.84,"end":12664.84,"text":"或是維護放射線照相從業人員的健康"},{"start":12664.84,"end":12665.84,"text":"我覺得這是非常的重要"},{"start":12665.84,"end":12668.84,"text":"我目前沒有看到太積極的一個做法"},{"start":12668.84,"end":12669.84,"text":"所以對不起"},{"start":12669.84,"end":12671.84,"text":"我認為21案跟54"},{"start":12671.84,"end":12673.84,"text":"雖然主席剛說是49"},{"start":12673.84,"end":12674.84,"text":"但是我提前講"},{"start":12674.84,"end":12675.84,"text":"21案跟54案"},{"start":12675.84,"end":12679.84,"text":"我覺得在第二幕可以統一凍結100萬"},{"start":12679.84,"end":12680.84,"text":"那我覺得這個要提"},{"start":12680.84,"end":12682.84,"text":"國安法要提出一些的報告"},{"start":12682.84,"end":12685.84,"text":"然後第34案跟41案就改成主決議"},{"start":12685.84,"end":12688.84,"text":"那我特別已經提到了一些"},{"start":12688.84,"end":12689.84,"text":"這個國研"},{"start":12689.84,"end":12692.84,"text":"就是有國研院預算占總體的七成"},{"start":12692.84,"end":12694.84,"text":"但是他的跨年計畫的時候"},{"start":12694.84,"end":12696.84,"text":"有部分執行率欠佳"},{"start":12696.84,"end":12697.84,"text":"然後呢"},{"start":12697.84,"end":12699.84,"text":"41案也是針對跨年的計畫"},{"start":12699.84,"end":12701.84,"text":"沒有在預算書裡面"},{"start":12701.84,"end":12704.84,"text":"詳列執行的年限經費跟分配等等"},{"start":12704.84,"end":12706.84,"text":"但是因為你們來溝通"},{"start":12706.84,"end":12708.84,"text":"所以在有關沒有詳列的問題"},{"start":12708.84,"end":12710.84,"text":"主要是時序的問題"},{"start":12710.84,"end":12711.84,"text":"還有新增的計畫"},{"start":12711.84,"end":12712.84,"text":"跨部會計畫"},{"start":12712.84,"end":12714.84,"text":"都還沒有"},{"start":12714.84,"end":12717.84,"text":"來不及完成行政院核電的程序"},{"start":12717.84,"end":12719.84,"text":"也沒有辦法再預算出宰民"},{"start":12719.84,"end":12721.84,"text":"所以我個人覺得這兩案"},{"start":12721.84,"end":12723.84,"text":"34跟41我覺得我可以改成主決議"},{"start":12723.84,"end":12726.84,"text":"但對不起在有關我所在乎的"},{"start":12726.84,"end":12728.84,"text":"第21跟54"},{"start":12728.84,"end":12729.84,"text":"我覺得在第二幕當中"},{"start":12729.84,"end":12732.84,"text":"可以併案來凍結100萬"},{"start":12734.03,"end":12736.03,"text":"好 謝謝柯臻恩委員"},{"start":12736.03,"end":12738.03,"text":"再來請郭育晴委員"},{"start":12738.03,"end":12740.03,"text":"下一位羅志強委員"},{"start":12741.14,"end":12745.14,"text":"好 這個部分我是針對29案"},{"start":12745.14,"end":12747.14,"text":"那核安會當然有來辦公室來做說明"},{"start":12747.14,"end":12749.14,"text":"不過還是要提醒一下我們核安會"},{"start":12749.14,"end":12752.14,"text":"目前官網的整體設計"},{"start":12752.14,"end":12754.14,"text":"比較容易讓一般的民眾"},{"start":12754.14,"end":12756.14,"text":"或者是國會在查閱的時候"},{"start":12756.14,"end":12758.14,"text":"產生一些誤解"},{"start":12758.14,"end":12761.14,"text":"因為大家習慣會去點研究成果的部分"},{"start":12761.14,"end":12764.14,"text":"但是因為研究成果是停留在112年"},{"start":12764.14,"end":12767.14,"text":"也不知道說他已經移到其他的一個分頁"},{"start":12767.14,"end":12770.14,"text":"那我想這個難免會讓外界會質疑"},{"start":12770.14,"end":12772.14,"text":"這個計畫的執行效益跟透明度"},{"start":12772.14,"end":12775.14,"text":"那這個部分我想還是要稍微改進一下"},{"start":12775.14,"end":12777.14,"text":"因為已經改組了快三年了嘛"},{"start":12777.14,"end":12780.14,"text":"那相關的科研的成果"},{"start":12780.14,"end":12783.14,"text":"其實還是要有效的讓社會大眾看到"},{"start":12783.14,"end":12786.14,"text":"那這個部分我沒有堅持凍結的金額"},{"start":12786.14,"end":12787.14,"text":"可以併案處理"},{"start":12787.14,"end":12788.14,"text":"好 以上"},{"start":12788.49,"end":12789.49,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":12789.49,"end":12791.49,"text":"接下來請羅志強委員"},{"start":12791.49,"end":12793.49,"text":"好 那針對核安會"},{"start":12793.49,"end":12796.49,"text":"他的這個第二幕第一節"},{"start":12796.49,"end":12798.49,"text":"原子能科學發展向下"},{"start":12798.49,"end":12801.49,"text":"公眾參與民眾溝通部分"},{"start":12801.49,"end":12804.49,"text":"26案 他428萬3000元"},{"start":12804.49,"end":12806.49,"text":"那我是看到這個經費目標"},{"start":12806.49,"end":12811.49,"text":"是促進公眾對原子能安全管理的了解"},{"start":12811.49,"end":12814.49,"text":"那核安會也卻在社群網站有一些經營"},{"start":12814.49,"end":12817.49,"text":"但是我覺得比較缺乏核能應用知識"},{"start":12817.49,"end":12818.49,"text":"跟輿情的推廣"},{"start":12818.49,"end":12821.49,"text":"例如我們國家對於核電廠運作"},{"start":12821.49,"end":12823.49,"text":"電力安全經營等"},{"start":12823.49,"end":12825.49,"text":"那為什麼這件事開始變得重要"},{"start":12825.49,"end":12827.49,"text":"因為賴清德總統已經宣示"},{"start":12827.49,"end":12829.49,"text":"要政府來進行重啟核電"},{"start":12829.49,"end":12833.49,"text":"那所以要讓社會大眾對核電在台灣的發展"},{"start":12833.49,"end":12837.49,"text":"以及核電在國際的潮流趨勢的現狀"},{"start":12837.49,"end":12841.49,"text":"應該要有相當必要的去讓民眾能夠了解"},{"start":12841.49,"end":12844.49,"text":"包括核電的原理成本燃料重啟程序"},{"start":12845.49,"end":12847.49,"text":"美國日本韓國這些先進國家"},{"start":12847.49,"end":12850.49,"text":"重啟核電的進程跟決策"},{"start":12850.49,"end":12852.49,"text":"那跟台灣的核電廠有何異同"},{"start":12852.49,"end":12855.49,"text":"這些都是我們現在面臨廢核"},{"start":12855.49,"end":12856.49,"text":"然後又重啟"},{"start":12856.49,"end":12860.49,"text":"民眾需要再得到更多的一些相關的知識"},{"start":12860.49,"end":12863.49,"text":"所以我覺得政府部門應該要盡力的"},{"start":12863.49,"end":12866.49,"text":"來去建立知識的一個管道"},{"start":12866.49,"end":12867.49,"text":"以上"},{"start":12867.65,"end":12869.65,"text":"好 謝謝羅志強委員"},{"start":12869.65,"end":12870.65,"text":"還有沒有其他委員"},{"start":12870.65,"end":12871.65,"text":"蔡君仲委員"},{"start":12873.34,"end":12877.34,"text":"不好意思 我再針對49案再做一個說明"},{"start":12877.34,"end":12880.34,"text":"那我們請核安會能夠補充"},{"start":12880.34,"end":12883.34,"text":"SMR研究成果未來"},{"start":12883.34,"end":12887.34,"text":"若被核安會參考"},{"start":12887.34,"end":12889.34,"text":"那如何建立利益回避"},{"start":12889.34,"end":12892.34,"text":"還有審查的一個獨立性的一個程序"},{"start":12892.34,"end":12897.34,"text":"那第二是國研院接受的補助執行SMR研究"},{"start":12897.34,"end":12899.34,"text":"那未來如果進入審查階段"},{"start":12899.34,"end":12903.34,"text":"研究團隊跟審查程序又如何來切分"},{"start":12903.34,"end":12907.34,"text":"三研究內容中涉及到成本分析"},{"start":12907.34,"end":12908.34,"text":"離岸式的一個配置"},{"start":12908.34,"end":12910.34,"text":"還有技術的一個評比"},{"start":12910.34,"end":12912.34,"text":"法規原稀者"},{"start":12912.34,"end":12916.34,"text":"哪些屬於核安會安全監理的範圍"},{"start":12916.34,"end":12920.34,"text":"哪些是屬於原政策的一個參考"},{"start":12920.34,"end":12925.34,"text":"是SMR核會事故環境影響"},{"start":12925.34,"end":12931.34,"text":"還有核料的一個關鍵結構安全的評估成果"},{"start":12931.34,"end":12933.34,"text":"如何公開武術"},{"start":12933.34,"end":12935.34,"text":"科學中立公開透明"},{"start":12935.34,"end":12939.34,"text":"如何落實為具體公開項目跟公開的實程"},{"start":12939.34,"end":12941.34,"text":"能夠交一份報告到本班"},{"start":12941.34,"end":12944.34,"text":"然後就改成主結議"},{"start":12946.56,"end":12947.56,"text":"好 謝謝蔡主任委員"},{"start":12947.56,"end":12950.56,"text":"我這邊有兩案做一個簡短的說明"},{"start":12950.56,"end":12955.56,"text":"第十一案的部分是關於核工人才出現斷層"},{"start":12955.56,"end":12962.56,"text":"所以我這邊是希望可以看到盤點核能專業人才培育現況的資料"},{"start":12962.56,"end":12968.56,"text":"那也希望能夠看到如何去建立長期人才培育產學合作的機制"},{"start":12968.56,"end":12971.56,"text":"那如果有看到我這個可以改主決議"},{"start":12971.56,"end":12974.56,"text":"那另外一個部分是第25案"},{"start":12974.56,"end":12977.56,"text":"就是因為核廢料儲存設施"},{"start":12977.56,"end":12982.56,"text":"通常都會設置在原住民族地區或鄰近部落的地方"},{"start":12982.56,"end":12988.56,"text":"所以這個部分長期就是受到質疑資訊不對等參與不足"},{"start":12988.56,"end":12991.56,"text":"所以這個部分我還是希望說"},{"start":12991.56,"end":12997.56,"text":"核安會在未來在處理這一類的一個審查也好"},{"start":12997.56,"end":12999.56,"text":"公聽會也好或者決策"},{"start":12999.56,"end":13007.56,"text":"我希望能夠清楚的看到這個符合知情同意的一個原則跟參與的機制"},{"start":13007.56,"end":13011.56,"text":"所以這個部分我大概用並動的方式"},{"start":13011.56,"end":13012.56,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":13012.56,"end":13015.56,"text":"好 那是不是請核安會做說明"},{"start":13020.23,"end":13024.23,"text":"剛才有委員需要提供說明嗎 還是不用"},{"start":13024.91,"end":13026.91,"text":"我是有聽到秀寶委員說要說明"},{"start":13027.51,"end":13029.51,"text":"好 來 說明一下"},{"start":13031.42,"end":13034.42,"text":"剛剛陳委員的質詢"},{"start":13034.42,"end":13037.42,"text":"我們金會今年增加了4.3億"},{"start":13037.42,"end":13039.42,"text":"主要是藥物韌性"},{"start":13039.5,"end":13041.5,"text":"這個增加了3.3億"},{"start":13041.5,"end":13043.5,"text":"另外SMR增加了1億"},{"start":13043.5,"end":13047.5,"text":"還有小部分是淨零碳排的計畫增加所致"},{"start":13047.5,"end":13050.5,"text":"那進度有延後的主要是六福化釉"},{"start":13050.5,"end":13052.5,"text":"我們原來有32桶"},{"start":13052.5,"end":13054.5,"text":"那去年運出了30桶"},{"start":13054.5,"end":13058.5,"text":"今年1月又把另外兩桶全部運到英國"},{"start":13058.5,"end":13060.5,"text":"那都完成這整個運送程序"},{"start":13060.5,"end":13063.5,"text":"阿約一夜也來檢查 前鋒過"},{"start":13063.5,"end":13065.5,"text":"所以剩下只是捷報"},{"start":13065.5,"end":13068.5,"text":"我們預期在下個月底希望能夠捷報完畢"},{"start":13068.5,"end":13070.5,"text":"希望這個案子能夠截掉"},{"start":13070.5,"end":13074.5,"text":"這是 另外一個是70MV場館興建的問題"},{"start":13074.5,"end":13078.5,"text":"因為廠家去年遭遇罷工"},{"start":13078.5,"end":13080.5,"text":"還有一些問題"},{"start":13080.5,"end":13083.5,"text":"但是我們這個進度已經都改善"},{"start":13083.5,"end":13087.5,"text":"現在進度是99% 接近99%"},{"start":13087.5,"end":13089.5,"text":"那捷報率也接近85%"},{"start":13089.5,"end":13092.5,"text":"然後預計場館的主建築工程"},{"start":13092.5,"end":13095.5,"text":"應該下個月我們就可以完工"},{"start":13095.5,"end":13097.5,"text":"就是主建築 土建"},{"start":13097.5,"end":13099.5,"text":"這個應該我們也會符合這個"},{"start":13099.5,"end":13102.5,"text":"那核安會長期一直都嚴格的監督我們"},{"start":13102.5,"end":13106.5,"text":"所以在他們的監督下 我們會持續的努力"},{"start":13106.5,"end":13107.5,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":13110.38,"end":13114.38,"text":"好 那做完說明還有沒有其他委員的意見"},{"start":13114.92,"end":13116.92,"text":"好"},{"start":13116.3,"end":13118.3,"text":"來來 請請"},{"start":13118.3,"end":13121.3,"text":"在這邊跟各位委員報告一下"},{"start":13121.3,"end":13124.3,"text":"有關於這一幕針對資訊公開的部分"},{"start":13124.3,"end":13127.3,"text":"那當然我們除了一般民眾資訊公開之外"},{"start":13127.3,"end":13129.3,"text":"對於特殊案件的審查"},{"start":13129.3,"end":13132.3,"text":"我們也會盡量做到讓剛才所講的"},{"start":13132.3,"end":13134.3,"text":"就是說我們會主動告知"},{"start":13134.3,"end":13136.3,"text":"讓他們有諮詢的權利"},{"start":13136.3,"end":13139.3,"text":"那這個是我們會繼續努力"},{"start":13139.3,"end":13141.3,"text":"包括委員有提到的臉書啊"},{"start":13141.3,"end":13144.3,"text":"或者是我們的網站等等"},{"start":13144.3,"end":13146.3,"text":"那如果有委員提到的一些建議事項"},{"start":13146.3,"end":13149.3,"text":"我們都會納入我們的精進的一個參考"},{"start":13149.3,"end":13151.3,"text":"那針對這個國務院的績效管理"},{"start":13151.3,"end":13156.3,"text":"確實國務院的預算比例占核安會的比例高達七成"},{"start":13156.3,"end":13158.3,"text":"所以我們也非常重視這一項"},{"start":13158.3,"end":13160.3,"text":"所以我們除了計畫管理之外"},{"start":13160.3,"end":13162.3,"text":"我們還有行政的查核"},{"start":13162.3,"end":13165.3,"text":"還包括請外部委員的績效評鑑等等"},{"start":13165.3,"end":13169.3,"text":"這些都是我們要求國務院能做好所有計畫"},{"start":13169.3,"end":13172.3,"text":"都能夠按時如質的完成"},{"start":13172.3,"end":13175.3,"text":"至於各位委員所關切的合工人才的部分"},{"start":13175.3,"end":13177.3,"text":"承諾剛才我們主委所說的"},{"start":13177.3,"end":13181.3,"text":"合工人才確實在目前是比較稀缺"},{"start":13181.3,"end":13185.3,"text":"所以我們包括我們自己內部人才的培訓"},{"start":13185.3,"end":13189.3,"text":"還包括外部就是包括我們爭取公費留考"},{"start":13189.3,"end":13191.3,"text":"然後國籍規劃"},{"start":13191.3,"end":13193.3,"text":"以及我們跟國科院有"},{"start":13193.3,"end":13197.3,"text":"國科會有所謂的學術合作研究計畫"},{"start":13197.3,"end":13199.3,"text":"來培養各個學校"},{"start":13199.3,"end":13203.3,"text":"能夠踏入原子能的這個領域"},{"start":13203.3,"end":13208.3,"text":"這些都是我們努力做育才、染才、留才的一些方向"},{"start":13208.3,"end":13210.3,"text":"那這部分關於第一幕的預算"},{"start":13210.3,"end":13213.3,"text":"就懇請各位委員能夠予以支持"},{"start":13213.3,"end":13214.3,"text":"以上報告"},{"start":13215.59,"end":13217.59,"text":"現在是第二幕第一節"},{"start":13217.59,"end":13218.59,"text":"第二幕第一節"},{"start":13218.59,"end":13219.59,"text":"OK"},{"start":13219.59,"end":13221.59,"text":"是不是這樣子"},{"start":13221.59,"end":13223.59,"text":"因為第二幕總共有四節"},{"start":13223.59,"end":13225.59,"text":"現在是第一節"},{"start":13225.59,"end":13227.59,"text":"我們是不是除了改組決議的部分"},{"start":13227.59,"end":13229.59,"text":"其他我們等下四節處理完"},{"start":13229.59,"end":13231.59,"text":"第二幕併動"},{"start":13231.03,"end":13232.03,"text":"可以嗎"},{"start":13232.03,"end":13233.03,"text":"好,那謝謝"},{"start":13233.03,"end":13235.03,"text":"那我先宣讀一下"},{"start":13235.03,"end":13239.03,"text":"第一節的第十案至第四十九案的審查結果"},{"start":13239.03,"end":13244.03,"text":"第十一、十七、十九、二十、二二、二四、二五、二七、三十"},{"start":13244.03,"end":13248.03,"text":"三一、三四、三六、四一、四二等案"},{"start":13248.03,"end":13253.03,"text":"還有四四、四九等案改為主決議"},{"start":13256.62,"end":13258.62,"text":"好,我們現在就開始"},{"start":13258.62,"end":13259.62,"text":"我們現在就開始"},{"start":13259.62,"end":13260.62,"text":"我們現在就開始"},{"start":13260.62,"end":13261.62,"text":"我們現在就開始"},{"start":13261.62,"end":13262.62,"text":"我們現在就開始"},{"start":13262.62,"end":13263.62,"text":"我們現在就開始"},{"start":13263.62,"end":13264.62,"text":"我們現在就開始"},{"start":13264.62,"end":13265.62,"text":"我們現在就開始"},{"start":13265.62,"end":13266.62,"text":"我們現在就開始"},{"start":13266.62,"end":13267.62,"text":"我們現在就開始"},{"start":13267.62,"end":13268.62,"text":"我們現在就開始"},{"start":13268.62,"end":13269.62,"text":"我們現在就開始"},{"start":13269.62,"end":13270.62,"text":"我們現在就開始"},{"start":13270.62,"end":13271.62,"text":"我們現在就開始"},{"start":13271.62,"end":13272.62,"text":"我們現在就開始"},{"start":13272.62,"end":13273.62,"text":"我們現在就開始"},{"start":13273.62,"end":13274.62,"text":"我們現在就開始"},{"start":13274.62,"end":13275.62,"text":"我們現在就開始"},{"start":13275.62,"end":13276.62,"text":"我們現在就開始"},{"start":13276.62,"end":13277.62,"text":"我們現在就開始"},{"start":13277.62,"end":13278.62,"text":"我們現在就開始"},{"start":13278.62,"end":13279.62,"text":"我們現在就開始"},{"start":13279.62,"end":13280.62,"text":"我們現在就開始"},{"start":13280.62,"end":13281.62,"text":"我們現在就開始"},{"start":13281.62,"end":13282.62,"text":"我們現在就開始"},{"start":13282.62,"end":13283.62,"text":"我們現在就開始"},{"start":13283.62,"end":13284.62,"text":"我們現在就開始"},{"start":13284.62,"end":13285.62,"text":"我們現在就開始"},{"start":13257.73,"end":13259.73,"text":"我是第21案"},{"start":13259.73,"end":13260.73,"text":"跟54"},{"start":13260.73,"end":13261.73,"text":"把他並"},{"start":13261.73,"end":13263.73,"text":"我21跟54"},{"start":13263.73,"end":13264.73,"text":"是並動"},{"start":13264.73,"end":13265.73,"text":"是並動100"},{"start":13265.73,"end":13266.73,"text":"就是在第二幕當中"},{"start":13266.73,"end":13267.73,"text":"並動100"},{"start":13267.73,"end":13268.73,"text":"所以21不是改主決議"},{"start":13268.73,"end":13269.73,"text":"21"},{"start":13269.73,"end":13270.73,"text":"因為我沒有念21"},{"start":13270.73,"end":13272.73,"text":"那就21跟我等一下的54"},{"start":13272.73,"end":13273.73,"text":"就整個並動100"},{"start":13273.73,"end":13274.73,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":13274.73,"end":13276.73,"text":"那我們先接著處理第二幕"},{"start":13276.73,"end":13278.73,"text":"原子能管理發展業務第二節"},{"start":13278.73,"end":13281.73,"text":"油利輻射安全防護提案案號"},{"start":13281.73,"end":13283.73,"text":"第50案至第63案"},{"start":13283.73,"end":13285.73,"text":"有沒有委員要做說明"},{"start":13288.33,"end":13289.33,"text":"好"},{"start":13289.15,"end":13291.15,"text":"林怡菁委員陳秀白委員請"},{"start":13296.98,"end":13297.98,"text":"我是第一"},{"start":13298.89,"end":13299.89,"text":"51案"},{"start":13300.63,"end":13306.63,"text":"這個案的內容是跟輻射防護管制經濟相關"},{"start":13306.63,"end":13310.63,"text":"我想原子能的民生運用日漸廣泛"},{"start":13310.63,"end":13313.63,"text":"像是醫院或者是相關的工業場所"},{"start":13313.63,"end":13316.63,"text":"但是劑量的管理跟風險的管控"},{"start":13316.63,"end":13318.63,"text":"也是我們需要特別去注意的"},{"start":13318.63,"end":13321.63,"text":"那我們看到核安會都有持續在經濟相關的"},{"start":13321.63,"end":13326.63,"text":"輻射安全防護的管制作為"},{"start":13326.63,"end":13328.63,"text":"那包括輻射線"},{"start":13328.63,"end":13331.63,"text":"輻射源的線上申辦系統等等"},{"start":13331.63,"end":13338.63,"text":"或者是輻射安全防護的文化數位學習網的建置"},{"start":13338.63,"end":13340.63,"text":"但是針對本次提案提到的"},{"start":13340.63,"end":13343.63,"text":"就是說如何數位化管理這件事情"},{"start":13343.63,"end":13345.63,"text":"我覺得目前還有待精進"},{"start":13345.63,"end":13348.63,"text":"所以這部分我凍結了數"},{"start":13348.63,"end":13350.63,"text":"就跟大家等一下再一起處理"},{"start":13350.63,"end":13351.63,"text":"以上"},{"start":13351.63,"end":13352.63,"text":"好,謝謝怡菁委員"},{"start":13352.63,"end":13353.63,"text":"接下來請秀白委員"},{"start":13355.4,"end":13356.4,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":13356.4,"end":13357.4,"text":"在第二節這個部分"},{"start":13357.4,"end":13359.4,"text":"我的案子是第56案"},{"start":13359.4,"end":13363.4,"text":"這個案子主要是由於輻射安全防護"},{"start":13363.4,"end":13367.4,"text":"向下的這個相關的一些預算"},{"start":13368.97,"end":13370.97,"text":"日前媒體報導有指出"},{"start":13370.97,"end":13375.97,"text":"有清潔隊他在院垃圾自文化廠遭退運"},{"start":13375.97,"end":13378.97,"text":"原因是因為偵測到垃圾輻射超標"},{"start":13378.97,"end":13380.97,"text":"讓民眾覺得很恐慌"},{"start":13380.97,"end":13383.97,"text":"那經過核安會這邊調查之後發現"},{"start":13383.97,"end":13387.97,"text":"其實是因為病患進行核子醫學治療之後"},{"start":13387.97,"end":13389.97,"text":"產生的這些廢棄物"},{"start":13389.97,"end":13393.97,"text":"來導致有這樣子的一些這個偵測出來"},{"start":13393.97,"end":13394.97,"text":"那核安會"},{"start":13394.97,"end":13399.97,"text":"你們作為這個輻射安全管制的機關"},{"start":13399.97,"end":13401.97,"text":"在對於醫院醫療院所"},{"start":13401.97,"end":13405.97,"text":"如何完善核子醫學治療之後"},{"start":13405.97,"end":13408.97,"text":"相關的廢棄物這些處置"},{"start":13408.97,"end":13411.97,"text":"你們怎麼宣導怎麼去輔導他們"},{"start":13413.03,"end":13415.03,"text":"才不會造成民眾的恐慌"},{"start":13415.03,"end":13418.03,"text":"我覺得這個部分你們可能是不是之前"},{"start":13418.03,"end":13420.03,"text":"在這個部分沒有做到很到位"},{"start":13420.03,"end":13422.03,"text":"那你們有來說明就是說"},{"start":13422.03,"end":13426.03,"text":"會加強來監督醫院來強化說對這個"},{"start":13426.03,"end":13429.03,"text":"合醫治療的病人他返家之後"},{"start":13429.03,"end":13432.03,"text":"這個輻射防護的這個衛教"},{"start":13432.03,"end":13435.03,"text":"而且會在課補相關的教材"},{"start":13435.03,"end":13438.03,"text":"來強化民眾對合醫療的這個認識"},{"start":13438.03,"end":13440.03,"text":"避免民眾會有恐慌"},{"start":13440.03,"end":13441.03,"text":"那這個部分我想"},{"start":13441.03,"end":13443.03,"text":"我希望說核安會你們之後"},{"start":13443.03,"end":13447.03,"text":"有這個比較具體的改善的方案"},{"start":13447.03,"end":13450.03,"text":"跟你們相關執行的內容的書面報告"},{"start":13450.03,"end":13453.03,"text":"那這個案子我沒有很堅持"},{"start":13453.03,"end":13455.03,"text":"我是可以改組決議"},{"start":13456.6,"end":13459.6,"text":"到底你們針對這樣子的情形發生"},{"start":13459.6,"end":13463.6,"text":"如何來宣導如何來強化"},{"start":13463.6,"end":13465.6,"text":"就是對民眾對這些相關的"},{"start":13465.6,"end":13467.6,"text":"合醫療的這些認識呢"},{"start":13467.6,"end":13469.6,"text":"我希望你們的方案是具體的"},{"start":13469.6,"end":13470.6,"text":"以上"},{"start":13470.6,"end":13473.6,"text":"好謝謝秀寶委員還有沒有其他委員"},{"start":13473.6,"end":13475.6,"text":"請羅志強委員"},{"start":13477.93,"end":13479.93,"text":"針對第62案"},{"start":13479.93,"end":13481.93,"text":"114年7月底"},{"start":13481.93,"end":13484.93,"text":"核安會是協助我國海域魚貨物"},{"start":13484.93,"end":13488.93,"text":"日本輸入水產食品跟海域生態系樣本"},{"start":13488.93,"end":13489.93,"text":"來去相關的檢驗"},{"start":13489.93,"end":13491.93,"text":"那雖然沒有輻射異常的情形"},{"start":13491.93,"end":13494.93,"text":"但是因為日本福島電廠"},{"start":13494.93,"end":13496.93,"text":"川沸水海洋排放作業"},{"start":13496.93,"end":13498.93,"text":"預計長達30年"},{"start":13498.93,"end":13501.93,"text":"所以我覺得還是要根據嚴加監控"},{"start":13501.93,"end":13505.93,"text":"相關的排放資訊及相關檢測"},{"start":13505.93,"end":13507.93,"text":"另外核安會及所屬"},{"start":13507.93,"end":13511.93,"text":"115年挹注國研院輻射偵測中心"},{"start":13511.93,"end":13513.93,"text":"跟高雄市衛生局"},{"start":13513.93,"end":13516.93,"text":"三家川實驗室的預算資源增加"},{"start":13516.93,"end":13518.93,"text":"但檢測量目標值"},{"start":13518.93,"end":13521.93,"text":"跟每年檢測量能量差距卻不小"},{"start":13521.93,"end":13523.93,"text":"沒有高於以前的年度"},{"start":13523.93,"end":13525.93,"text":"我覺得這個部分可能是不是要考慮"},{"start":13525.93,"end":13528.93,"text":"調高目標值來擴大檢測服務"},{"start":13528.93,"end":13530.93,"text":"那充分發揮實驗室的功能"},{"start":13530.93,"end":13532.93,"text":"也增進預算應用的效力"},{"start":13532.93,"end":13535.93,"text":"來促進國人對食安的信心"},{"start":13535.93,"end":13536.93,"text":"以上"},{"start":13536.93,"end":13537.93,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":13537.93,"end":13539.93,"text":"再來請吳佩儀委員"},{"start":13540.57,"end":13542.57,"text":"第52案是我的提案"},{"start":13542.57,"end":13545.57,"text":"那是有關遊離服飾安全防護這一個問重事"},{"start":13545.57,"end":13548.57,"text":"所以之前質詢也有請教過核安會"},{"start":13548.57,"end":13550.57,"text":"那這一個我現在看到的狀況是說"},{"start":13550.57,"end":13553.57,"text":"我們這個項目是辦了經費流入"},{"start":13553.57,"end":13556.57,"text":"但是後來是沒有執行完畢"},{"start":13556.57,"end":13558.57,"text":"不過因為核安會有跟我來說明"},{"start":13558.57,"end":13560.57,"text":"是因為有暴流款項"},{"start":13560.57,"end":13561.57,"text":"那隔年播入"},{"start":13561.57,"end":13563.57,"text":"所以這一個委員先提案"},{"start":13563.57,"end":13565.57,"text":"我就不堅持按原理的訴訟"},{"start":13565.57,"end":13566.57,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":13566.57,"end":13567.57,"text":"好 謝謝佩儀委員"},{"start":13567.57,"end":13570.57,"text":"那是不是請核安會做一個說明"},{"start":13573.84,"end":13577.84,"text":"那第二節是有關於國內的民生應用的一個服飾安全"},{"start":13577.84,"end":13579.84,"text":"那各位委員的一些提案"},{"start":13579.84,"end":13580.84,"text":"以及關切的事項"},{"start":13580.84,"end":13583.84,"text":"我們這邊也都非常的一個在乎"},{"start":13583.84,"end":13586.84,"text":"所以我們其實在整個民生應用裡頭"},{"start":13586.84,"end":13588.84,"text":"像朝向數位化"},{"start":13588.84,"end":13590.84,"text":"我們會來持續的一個努力"},{"start":13590.84,"end":13593.84,"text":"那因為它是確保服飾作業人員"},{"start":13593.84,"end":13595.84,"text":"還有民眾的一個安全"},{"start":13595.84,"end":13599.84,"text":"那像民眾的一些就醫的這一塊"},{"start":13599.84,"end":13604.84,"text":"那尤其是怎麼樣去重視了解這個核醫藥物的一些"},{"start":13604.84,"end":13606.84,"text":"一些它的一個安全"},{"start":13606.84,"end":13607.84,"text":"以及它自己排泄物"},{"start":13607.84,"end":13611.84,"text":"怎麼去做一個有妥適的處理"},{"start":13611.84,"end":13612.84,"text":"然後去管理"},{"start":13612.84,"end":13615.84,"text":"我們這部分也會持續的來透過衛教跟醫院端"},{"start":13615.84,"end":13617.84,"text":"來去做一個努力"},{"start":13617.84,"end":13621.84,"text":"那至於就是那個日本排放穿水這邊"},{"start":13621.84,"end":13623.84,"text":"我們在這部分的一個跨部會"},{"start":13623.84,"end":13625.84,"text":"依舊會持續的一個努力"},{"start":13625.84,"end":13628.84,"text":"那有關於生物穿的這裡"},{"start":13628.84,"end":13630.84,"text":"現在國內有三家實驗室"},{"start":13630.84,"end":13633.84,"text":"其實我們的一個生物穿的一個檢測的一些目標子"},{"start":13633.84,"end":13636.84,"text":"其實我們都持續的去做一個滾動調整"},{"start":13636.84,"end":13640.84,"text":"我們會去觀察日本排放的一個現況"},{"start":13640.84,"end":13644.84,"text":"那維持國內具備兩千件的這個量能"},{"start":13644.84,"end":13647.84,"text":"是我們目前還是首要的之重"},{"start":13647.84,"end":13652.84,"text":"那另外一些生物穿的一些那個實驗室的一個研究"},{"start":13652.84,"end":13654.84,"text":"研究的一個效能"},{"start":13654.84,"end":13657.84,"text":"我們這邊也都持續透過科技計畫"},{"start":13657.84,"end":13660.84,"text":"在做這一塊的一個生物穿的技術研究"},{"start":13660.84,"end":13664.84,"text":"那也懇請委員能夠支持我們的一個第二節的一個預算"},{"start":13666.23,"end":13668.23,"text":"好,還有沒有其他的說明?"},{"start":13668.86,"end":13670.86,"text":"好,那針對第二幕"},{"start":13672.3,"end":13674.3,"text":"拜拜"},{"start":13673.53,"end":13675.53,"text":"第二節的部分"},{"start":13676.12,"end":13679.12,"text":"我來宣讀一下審查的結果"},{"start":13679.66,"end":13683.66,"text":"遊歷輻射安全防護提案案號第50案至第63案"},{"start":13683.66,"end":13685.66,"text":"審查結果如下"},{"start":13685.66,"end":13691.66,"text":"第50、56、57、58、61、63等案改為主決議"},{"start":13691.66,"end":13695.66,"text":"那剛才有提到我們第二幕整幕一起來做滾動"},{"start":13695.66,"end":13700.66,"text":"接著我們來處理第二幕原子能管理發展業務第三節"},{"start":13700.66,"end":13707.66,"text":"核設施安全管制提案案號是第64案至第71案"},{"start":13707.66,"end":13709.66,"text":"有沒有委員要做說明?"},{"start":13709.66,"end":13712.66,"text":"來,林益晉委員、陳秀寶委員、羅志強委員"},{"start":13713.17,"end":13714.17,"text":"好,謝謝主席"},{"start":13714.17,"end":13716.17,"text":"我是第68案喔"},{"start":13716.17,"end":13722.17,"text":"那這是有關於核設施安全管制資訊公開的部分"},{"start":13722.17,"end":13725.17,"text":"那主要核心是在於說我們不僅要審查"},{"start":13725.93,"end":13728.93,"text":"該公開的文件就是要公開"},{"start":13728.93,"end":13732.93,"text":"我們更要以淺顯易懂的方式讓民眾了解"},{"start":13732.93,"end":13736.93,"text":"這個在今天這個質詢的時候有特別強調"},{"start":13736.93,"end":13740.93,"text":"那簡單來說說我們複雜的內容的文件當然要公開"},{"start":13740.93,"end":13743.93,"text":"可是我們也必須要幫民眾做一個摘要板"},{"start":13743.93,"end":13748.93,"text":"甚至是審查程序過程就應該要視狀況"},{"start":13748.93,"end":13751.93,"text":"來依照政府資訊公開法的規定來公開"},{"start":13751.93,"end":13754.93,"text":"那以提升這個核子設施審查的透明度"},{"start":13754.93,"end":13758.93,"text":"那所以這裡凍結的數額也跟大家一併處理"},{"start":13758.93,"end":13759.93,"text":"以上"},{"start":13761.01,"end":13762.01,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":13762.01,"end":13764.01,"text":"下一位是邱寶委員"},{"start":13764.01,"end":13765.01,"text":"謝謝主席喔"},{"start":13765.01,"end":13769.01,"text":"在這一節裡面我的案子有兩個71案還有78案"},{"start":13769.01,"end":13774.01,"text":"71案的部分呢是針對我們的核設施安全管制向下"},{"start":13774.01,"end":13777.01,"text":"關於我們電廠運轉及儲益安全管制"},{"start":13777.01,"end":13779.01,"text":"以及獨立驗證技術發展"},{"start":13779.01,"end":13782.01,"text":"裡面有編列4000多萬的預算"},{"start":13782.01,"end":13784.01,"text":"這個部分呢是要辦理核電廠運轉"},{"start":13784.01,"end":13787.01,"text":"以及儲益安全管制實務研究"},{"start":13787.01,"end":13793.01,"text":"以及核電廠儲益安全管制關鍵技術要向技術研究等相關的經費"},{"start":13793.01,"end":13795.01,"text":"那台電呢"},{"start":13795.01,"end":13799.01,"text":"台灣電力公司在今年3月已經有提出核三廠再運轉的這個計畫"},{"start":13799.01,"end":13804.01,"text":"顯見我國的核電廠未來發展除了儲益之外"},{"start":13804.01,"end":13806.01,"text":"是還有再運轉的這個方向"},{"start":13806.01,"end":13808.01,"text":"那核安"},{"start":13808.08,"end":13815.08,"text":"的這個管制管理部分呢針對不同的核能電廠的發展跟走向呢"},{"start":13815.08,"end":13820.08,"text":"我們應該要符合電廠實際上實務運用的需求"},{"start":13820.08,"end":13822.08,"text":"那核安會這邊裡面有來說明"},{"start":13822.08,"end":13828.08,"text":"就是儲益與再運轉都會面臨的這個耐震安全"},{"start":13828.08,"end":13833.08,"text":"研究事故安全分析以及重要設備維護管理等相關的研究計畫"},{"start":13833.08,"end":13835.08,"text":"你們會持續的進行"},{"start":13835.08,"end":13838.08,"text":"那在台電在送這個再運轉計畫之後呢"},{"start":13838.08,"end":13841.08,"text":"你們有調整相關的這個研究計畫"},{"start":13841.08,"end":13845.08,"text":"納入核電再運轉安全管制這些議題"},{"start":13845.08,"end":13847.08,"text":"那本席在這邊也希望說"},{"start":13847.08,"end":13850.08,"text":"我們核安會針對我們核電再運轉這個安全議題"},{"start":13850.08,"end":13852.08,"text":"可以進行全面的研究"},{"start":13852.08,"end":13857.08,"text":"請核安會要提出預計研究內容的書面報告給本席"},{"start":13857.08,"end":13859.08,"text":"就是針對這個部分"},{"start":13859.08,"end":13862.08,"text":"因為再運轉這一塊其實在以前是沒有過"},{"start":13862.08,"end":13865.08,"text":"那你們要擬出怎樣的一個研究計畫"},{"start":13865.08,"end":13867.08,"text":"你們相關的書面報告要提供給我"},{"start":13867.08,"end":13869.08,"text":"那這個我可以改成主決議"},{"start":13869.08,"end":13871.08,"text":"那第二個案子是78案"},{"start":13871.08,"end":13873.08,"text":"78案的部分呢是"},{"start":13877.15,"end":13879.15,"text":"他在第四案下發起"},{"start":13881.45,"end":13884.45,"text":"好一次講沒關係"},{"start":13885.2,"end":13887.2,"text":"對對對"},{"start":13887.2,"end":13891.2,"text":"好蔡村長委員嗎"},{"start":13891.2,"end":13893.2,"text":"羅志強委員是不是先"},{"start":13893.2,"end":13895.2,"text":"好請"},{"start":13896.2,"end":13898.2,"text":"我講的是第67案"},{"start":13898.2,"end":13903.2,"text":"那我要講錯誤的政策常會造成鬼打牆的虛耗"},{"start":13903.2,"end":13906.2,"text":"我覺得是這邊就有一個很典型的一個狀態"},{"start":13906.2,"end":13909.2,"text":"你可以看到就是我們核安會"},{"start":13909.2,"end":13913.2,"text":"他在編列這個核設施安全管制工作計畫"},{"start":13913.2,"end":13915.2,"text":"5000多萬裡面辦理的項目"},{"start":13915.2,"end":13918.2,"text":"包括核設施安全維護管制"},{"start":13918.2,"end":13921.2,"text":"核電廠運轉以及除役安全管制"},{"start":13921.2,"end":13922.2,"text":"獨立驗證技術"},{"start":13922.2,"end":13924.2,"text":"其他部分我比較沒有意見"},{"start":13924.2,"end":13927.2,"text":"我覺得今天要特別點出來就是所謂的除役的這個部分"},{"start":13927.2,"end":13934.2,"text":"我國的核一二三廠運轉執照在107年跟114年陸續屆期"},{"start":13934.2,"end":13937.2,"text":"那六部核電機機組已經停機"},{"start":13937.2,"end":13942.2,"text":"那其中核一廠已經在108年獲取除役許可"},{"start":13942.2,"end":13945.2,"text":"那現在關鍵是在核二廠核三廠"},{"start":13945.2,"end":13951.2,"text":"他是按照環境影響評估法進行除役的環境影響評估"},{"start":13951.2,"end":13952.2,"text":"但是大家不要忘了"},{"start":13952.2,"end":13958.2,"text":"賴清德總統已經宣布核二核三具有重啟運轉的條件"},{"start":13958.2,"end":13961.2,"text":"而現在台電也在準備重啟程序當中"},{"start":13961.2,"end":13963.2,"text":"所以馬上一個問題"},{"start":13963.2,"end":13966.2,"text":"那請問還要再做所謂的除役環評嗎"},{"start":13966.2,"end":13967.2,"text":"還有必要進行嗎"},{"start":13967.2,"end":13972.2,"text":"那核安會是不是應該督促台電來釐清接下來這一部分的作業"},{"start":13972.2,"end":13976.2,"text":"那否則變成是今天總統都說要重啟了"},{"start":13977.2,"end":13982.2,"text":"結果呢我們現在還在做核二跟核三的除役環評"},{"start":13982.2,"end":13984.2,"text":"那除役環評做出來決定讓他除役"},{"start":13984.2,"end":13986.2,"text":"然後呢幹嘛再重啟啊"},{"start":13986.2,"end":13988.2,"text":"這不就鬼打牆嗎"},{"start":13988.2,"end":13991.2,"text":"所以我跟各位講說這十年的鬼打牆的虛耗"},{"start":13991.2,"end":13994.2,"text":"在這件事情上會顯現出一個比較荒謬的地方"},{"start":13994.2,"end":14000.2,"text":"那我覺得是不是請我們核安會來跟台電釐清楚"},{"start":14000.2,"end":14003.2,"text":"那接下來這部分還要在浪費納稅人的錢做白工"},{"start":14003.2,"end":14006.2,"text":"來去消耗浪費公帑以上"},{"start":14007.42,"end":14010.42,"text":"好謝謝下一位蔡順從委員"},{"start":14010.42,"end":14014.42,"text":"那我針對70案做個說明"},{"start":14014.42,"end":14018.42,"text":"因為剛剛的刑打已經也有打刑"},{"start":14018.42,"end":14024.42,"text":"那我覺得打刑的一個狀況我覺得還可接受"},{"start":14024.42,"end":14027.42,"text":"所以改為主結議以上"},{"start":14027.42,"end":14028.42,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":14028.42,"end":14030.42,"text":"還有沒有其他委員的意見"},{"start":14030.47,"end":14032.47,"text":"好那請核安會做說明"},{"start":14035.35,"end":14036.35,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":14036.35,"end":14040.35,"text":"針對各位委員所提到的資訊公開這部分"},{"start":14040.35,"end":14042.35,"text":"跟各位委員說明"},{"start":14042.35,"end":14045.35,"text":"除了在網站我們會針對"},{"start":14045.35,"end":14050.35,"text":"依照資訊公開法針對台電公司所提供的相關的文件"},{"start":14050.35,"end":14054.35,"text":"那我們也會依照核安會的審查進度"},{"start":14054.35,"end":14056.35,"text":"陸續公布相關的審查資訊"},{"start":14056.35,"end":14060.35,"text":"那至於那個簽協議董部分我們會持續來精進"},{"start":14060.35,"end":14064.35,"text":"那會後我們會針對各位委員所提出的建議"},{"start":14064.35,"end":14069.35,"text":"我們會逐一來盤點來持續這部分的透明化"},{"start":14069.35,"end":14072.35,"text":"那針對研究計畫這部分"},{"start":14072.35,"end":14075.35,"text":"確實去年在編列今年的預算的時候"},{"start":14075.35,"end":14077.35,"text":"事實上台電公司還沒有提出"},{"start":14077.35,"end":14080.35,"text":"核三廠再運轉計畫的一些換照申請"},{"start":14080.35,"end":14084.35,"text":"那今年台電公司在3月提出來的時候"},{"start":14084.35,"end":14085.35,"text":"我們已經針對研究計畫"},{"start":14085.35,"end":14090.35,"text":"將再運轉所關切的一些管制議題"},{"start":14090.35,"end":14092.35,"text":"我們也參考國際的一些資訊"},{"start":14092.35,"end":14094.35,"text":"來調整研究的重點"},{"start":14094.35,"end":14097.35,"text":"那會後我們會提供順便報告給委員"},{"start":14097.35,"end":14100.35,"text":"那至於除役環評這件事情"},{"start":14100.35,"end":14107.35,"text":"那核三廠已經依法提出運轉執照換照的申請"},{"start":14107.35,"end":14110.35,"text":"會裡面是依法來進行審查"},{"start":14110.35,"end":14114.35,"text":"但是在還沒有審查通過之前"},{"start":14114.35,"end":14118.35,"text":"也就是說台電公司還沒取得核三廠運轉執照之前"},{"start":14118.35,"end":14120.35,"text":"還是要依照相關規定來辦理"},{"start":14120.35,"end":14123.35,"text":"除了一些相關環評的相關事宜"},{"start":14123.35,"end":14124.35,"text":"那以上說明"},{"start":14126.27,"end":14127.27,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":14127.27,"end":14131.27,"text":"如果大家沒有意見我就來宣讀選查結果"},{"start":14131.27,"end":14134.27,"text":"第三節 核設施安全管制"},{"start":14134.27,"end":14137.27,"text":"提案案號第64案至第71案"},{"start":14137.27,"end":14138.27,"text":"審查結果如下"},{"start":14138.27,"end":14141.27,"text":"第70、71案改為主決議"},{"start":14141.27,"end":14144.27,"text":"那經費等一下整幕處理"},{"start":14144.27,"end":14146.27,"text":"我們接著來處理第二幕"},{"start":14146.27,"end":14149.27,"text":"原子能管理發展業務的第四節"},{"start":14149.27,"end":14151.27,"text":"核子保安與應變"},{"start":14151.27,"end":14154.27,"text":"提案案號是第72案至第79案"},{"start":14154.27,"end":14156.27,"text":"有沒有委員要做說明"},{"start":14156.27,"end":14160.27,"text":"陳培育委員 林怡錦委員 陳秀寶委員 蔡春筹委員"},{"start":14161.09,"end":14162.09,"text":"好 謝謝主席"},{"start":14162.09,"end":14163.09,"text":"我的是第76案"},{"start":14163.09,"end":14167.09,"text":"就是關於消防疏散的部分"},{"start":14167.09,"end":14169.09,"text":"那核安會已經有來做說明"},{"start":14169.09,"end":14170.09,"text":"我們可以改主決議"},{"start":14170.09,"end":14172.09,"text":"但是我想還是要提醒核安會"},{"start":14172.09,"end":14175.09,"text":"跟地方政府的加強緊密的聯繫"},{"start":14175.09,"end":14177.09,"text":"還有定期的消防演習"},{"start":14177.09,"end":14178.09,"text":"這件事情都非常非常的重要"},{"start":14178.09,"end":14180.09,"text":"還有相關的通報"},{"start":14180.09,"end":14182.09,"text":"那我們可以改成主決議 謝謝"},{"start":14183.11,"end":14185.11,"text":"好 下一位 林怡錦委員"},{"start":14185.5,"end":14186.5,"text":"好 謝謝主席"},{"start":14186.5,"end":14189.5,"text":"我是73案跟74案"},{"start":14189.5,"end":14191.5,"text":"73案是"},{"start":14191.98,"end":14195.98,"text":"就是希望核安會可以多辦幾場地方說明會"},{"start":14195.98,"end":14197.98,"text":"來廣納這個民眾的意見"},{"start":14197.98,"end":14200.98,"text":"那必要時在鄰近恆春的幾個鄉鎮"},{"start":14200.98,"end":14202.98,"text":"也應該都要辦理"},{"start":14202.98,"end":14206.98,"text":"那希望核安會加強這部分的政策執行"},{"start":14206.98,"end":14210.98,"text":"那也能確實答覆民眾的提問"},{"start":14211.39,"end":14213.39,"text":"那再跟大家一起並動"},{"start":14213.39,"end":14217.39,"text":"那74案是就是消防疏散的問題"},{"start":14219.77,"end":14220.77,"text":"我是建議核安會"},{"start":14220.77,"end":14224.77,"text":"是要跟屏東縣政府來做一個密切的"},{"start":14224.77,"end":14227.77,"text":"研擬這個消防疏散應變計畫"},{"start":14227.77,"end":14230.77,"text":"因為如果從恆春這個對外的連外道路"},{"start":14230.77,"end":14232.77,"text":"其實就是有一兩條大條的"},{"start":14232.77,"end":14235.77,"text":"那如何安全有效的這個疏散"},{"start":14235.77,"end":14238.77,"text":"這個其實非常的重要"},{"start":14238.77,"end":14241.77,"text":"那所以我想這個整體的疏散計畫"},{"start":14241.77,"end":14245.77,"text":"還有是不是這個要通盤檢討"},{"start":14245.77,"end":14247.77,"text":"那不管不只是在核散"},{"start":14247.77,"end":14249.77,"text":"那核二也是一樣"},{"start":14249.77,"end":14252.77,"text":"所以我早上質詢的時候就有提到"},{"start":14252.77,"end":14255.77,"text":"這個天災人禍這個隨時可能發生"},{"start":14255.77,"end":14258.77,"text":"所以希望核安會針對我們這個有疑慮的部分"},{"start":14258.77,"end":14262.77,"text":"特別是疏散計畫能再做再次的盤點"},{"start":14262.77,"end":14265.77,"text":"那動結術也是跟大家一起並動"},{"start":14265.77,"end":14266.77,"text":"以上"},{"start":14266.77,"end":14267.77,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":14267.77,"end":14269.77,"text":"接下來請陳秋白委員"},{"start":14271.75,"end":14272.75,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":14272.75,"end":14275.75,"text":"在第四節的部分我的案子是78案"},{"start":14275.75,"end":14279.75,"text":"78案的部分是關於核子保安跟應變"},{"start":14279.75,"end":14283.75,"text":"那這個部分包括辦理核子保安整備"},{"start":14283.75,"end":14287.75,"text":"以及核試師的資通安全強化"},{"start":14287.75,"end":14290.75,"text":"核災防救訓練研發作業"},{"start":14290.75,"end":14292.75,"text":"以及應變技術的精進"},{"start":14292.75,"end":14297.75,"text":"以及輻射災害應變推廣食物這些相關的研究"},{"start":14297.75,"end":14300.75,"text":"那國際情勢一直在變化"},{"start":14300.75,"end":14303.75,"text":"那二戰爭以及中東的局勢很不穩定"},{"start":14303.75,"end":14307.75,"text":"那現在中國核電廠發展的很快"},{"start":14307.75,"end":14310.75,"text":"在臨海區域設置很多個核電廠"},{"start":14310.75,"end":14315.75,"text":"顯見這個我們在核能安全不只是在國內"},{"start":14315.75,"end":14319.75,"text":"其實我們也要審慎評估國際在核能的運用的方面"},{"start":14319.75,"end":14323.75,"text":"那對於我們國際核安使用的這個監控"},{"start":14323.75,"end":14328.75,"text":"我們還要精進相關的福災防救的技術的應變"},{"start":14328.75,"end":14330.75,"text":"那核安會這邊是有說明說"},{"start":14330.75,"end":14335.75,"text":"目前我們跟IEA還有美國日本有建立這個通源機制"},{"start":14335.75,"end":14337.75,"text":"IEA有定期的來測試"},{"start":14337.75,"end":14341.75,"text":"並且針對可能造成我國影響的這個輻射程"},{"start":14341.75,"end":14346.75,"text":"飄散的這個部分來研定這個境外核災應變機制"},{"start":14346.75,"end":14351.75,"text":"同時也說會開發這個精進無人機以及無人車等"},{"start":14351.75,"end":14354.75,"text":"智慧化救災的應變技術"},{"start":14354.75,"end":14357.75,"text":"那我這邊想等一下請核安會說明一下說"},{"start":14357.75,"end":14362.75,"text":"目前無人機跟無人車的研發預計何時可以投入實務的運用"},{"start":14362.75,"end":14364.75,"text":"後續還有什麼其他的規劃"},{"start":14364.75,"end":14366.75,"text":"等一下請你們回答謝謝"},{"start":14366.75,"end":14367.75,"text":"好謝謝秀寶委員"},{"start":14367.75,"end":14369.75,"text":"接著春筹委員"},{"start":14371.54,"end":14372.54,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":14372.54,"end":14376.54,"text":"我針對77案做個說明"},{"start":14376.54,"end":14379.54,"text":"我們前核安會能夠來做補充"},{"start":14379.54,"end":14384.54,"text":"就是近三年中央及地方第一線人臉的一個信任人次"},{"start":14384.54,"end":14388.54,"text":"然後測驗成效以及缺失的改善情形"},{"start":14388.54,"end":14395.54,"text":"二地方政府反評結果是否分縣市類出改善建議還有完成例"},{"start":14395.54,"end":14399.54,"text":"三是河山周邊的一個疏散點片"},{"start":14399.54,"end":14407.54,"text":"若是避難長照機構還有學校及醫療院所應變如何整合"},{"start":14407.54,"end":14412.54,"text":"四是VR模擬信念跟現地演練如何來連結"},{"start":14412.54,"end":14415.54,"text":"適合有實戰化的一個評估"},{"start":14415.54,"end":14421.54,"text":"第五是核子保安跟資訊通信安全信念如何轉化為"},{"start":14421.54,"end":14426.54,"text":"核設市環保改善請提供報告"},{"start":14426.54,"end":14431.54,"text":"然後是討論情況能夠可以並案處理"},{"start":14431.54,"end":14432.54,"text":"以上"},{"start":14432.54,"end":14433.54,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":14433.54,"end":14435.54,"text":"那是不是請核安會來做說明"},{"start":14442.41,"end":14444.41,"text":"謝謝委員這邊眾者做說明"},{"start":14444.41,"end":14448.41,"text":"首先針對委員關心的就是消防的疏散部分"},{"start":14448.41,"end":14451.41,"text":"目前就是我們已經渡島台電公司跟地方政府"},{"start":14451.41,"end":14455.41,"text":"都加強了各層級的一個就是直通的一個通聯管道"},{"start":14455.41,"end":14460.41,"text":"那我們也會透過就是做演習跟演練還有視察的時候"},{"start":14460.41,"end":14465.41,"text":"持續的去檢視跟確認他們確實有按照相關一個規劃來進行"},{"start":14465.41,"end":14469.41,"text":"那針對委員剛才關心的整體疏散的盤點"},{"start":14469.41,"end":14473.41,"text":"那我們也會持續跟地方政府持續的去做一個精進"},{"start":14473.41,"end":14479.41,"text":"那包括委員剛委員前面也有提議的就是針對現在一些災害的情勢"},{"start":14479.41,"end":14484.41,"text":"都一起進行盤點然後增加一些相關的一些疏散安全"},{"start":14484.41,"end":14487.41,"text":"跟疏散順利的一個配套措施"},{"start":14488.39,"end":14489.39,"text":"那另外再"},{"start":14489.96,"end":14494.96,"text":"國際情勢的部分因為確實如果有人所說現在國際情勢"},{"start":14494.96,"end":14499.96,"text":"包括一些戰爭或者是無人機攻擊的情勢這些一直持續有發生"},{"start":14499.96,"end":14502.96,"text":"因此我們也會持續的跟國際的友人"},{"start":14503.73,"end":14508.73,"text":"像美日等等還有我們也有持續跟IEA等等做一些通聯測試"},{"start":14508.73,"end":14511.73,"text":"那也會掌握國際的一些資訊"},{"start":14511.73,"end":14515.73,"text":"剛剛委員有詢問到無人機無人車的研發"},{"start":14515.73,"end":14520.73,"text":"那目前其實無人機無人車的研發都已經有投入我們的這個應變作業"},{"start":14520.73,"end":14525.73,"text":"那只是因為我們都是用在目前都是演習的每年的核安演習的時候"},{"start":14525.73,"end":14528.73,"text":"都有在運用無人機無人車的部分"},{"start":14528.73,"end":14530.73,"text":"那它主要是針對區域型"},{"start":14530.73,"end":14533.73,"text":"然後或者是比較不容易到達的地方"},{"start":14533.73,"end":14538.73,"text":"然後還有熱點的部分去做一個就是積極的一個增減這樣子"},{"start":14538.73,"end":14541.73,"text":"那未來也會持續的去做相關的精進"},{"start":14541.73,"end":14547.73,"text":"包括像訊號傳輸整合等等的這些技術上都會持續做精進"},{"start":14547.73,"end":14549.73,"text":"那目前其實在境外核災部分"},{"start":14549.73,"end":14554.73,"text":"我們也已經有境外核災一個因應小組可以去做應對"},{"start":14554.71,"end":14557.71,"text":"那另外針對委員有關心的一些"},{"start":14558.34,"end":14563.34,"text":"跟地方加強一些模擬的訓練"},{"start":14563.34,"end":14566.34,"text":"跟相關地方地線應變人員的訓練部分"},{"start":14566.34,"end":14572.34,"text":"那目前我們其實透過每年都會辦北中南東的一個地方地線應變人員的訓練"},{"start":14572.34,"end":14579.34,"text":"那訓練的除了地方另外還有中央一些包含交通運輸等等的一些相關部會的地線應變人員"},{"start":14579.34,"end":14581.34,"text":"都一起納入做訓練"},{"start":14581.34,"end":14587.34,"text":"那每年持續的精進包括課堂的講授跟這個演練討論的部分"},{"start":14588.14,"end":14591.14,"text":"那包括核子保安資安的部分"},{"start":14591.14,"end":14595.14,"text":"則是針對我們主要的從業人員會持續的做訓練"},{"start":14595.14,"end":14598.14,"text":"那相關的資訊就是也會再提供給委員更詳細的部分"},{"start":14598.14,"end":14599.14,"text":"以上"},{"start":14601.14,"end":14603.14,"text":"好 那個郭怡芹委員現在在場"},{"start":14603.14,"end":14605.14,"text":"她要補充說明"},{"start":14605.14,"end":14608.14,"text":"好 針對這個第79案"},{"start":14608.14,"end":14614.14,"text":"那我想高度重視這個核安的應變跟國際實務上的一個接軌是我非常重視的"},{"start":14614.14,"end":14619.14,"text":"那我想不僅是這個國際關切30公里的大範圍的核災的一個模擬"},{"start":14619.14,"end":14626.14,"text":"今天早上其實我也特別有針對這個部分來做質詢的部分"},{"start":14626.14,"end":14632.14,"text":"好 那我想核安會跟這個美國能源部等國際的一個機構要來進行這個技術上的一個交流"},{"start":14632.14,"end":14637.14,"text":"那我想科技研究的一個成果也必須要實質的應用在這個第一線上"},{"start":14637.14,"end":14643.14,"text":"那當然也是要支持我們自己本身對於這個福災的應變能力的這個提升"},{"start":14643.14,"end":14648.14,"text":"所以這個部分我想除了要加強這個防災的計畫"},{"start":14648.14,"end":14653.14,"text":"還有整個基金之間的一個橫向的一個整合才能夠發揮最大的一個效果"},{"start":14653.14,"end":14659.14,"text":"好 那這裡我沒有堅持要凍結金盒可以跟大家一起這個平安討論"},{"start":14659.14,"end":14660.14,"text":"好 以上"},{"start":14660.14,"end":14661.14,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":14661.14,"end":14666.14,"text":"那如果大家沒有意見的話我來勳讀一下審查的結果"},{"start":14666.14,"end":14673.14,"text":"第四節 核子保安與應變提案案號第72案至第79案審查結果如下"},{"start":14673.14,"end":14677.14,"text":"第75、76改為主決議"},{"start":14678.1,"end":14682.1,"text":"然後除以上個案的主決議之外呢"},{"start":14682.1,"end":14690.1,"text":"第二幕原子能管理發展第10案至第79案合併凍結100萬元"},{"start":14691.45,"end":14693.45,"text":"並針對各凍結提案之要求"},{"start":14693.45,"end":14698.45,"text":"依審查會決議提出書面報告後使得動知"},{"start":14699.15,"end":14700.15,"text":"來 修法委員"},{"start":14701.44,"end":14703.44,"text":"我的78案可以改主決議"},{"start":14703.44,"end":14706.44,"text":"那我的第35案就併動在裡面"},{"start":14706.44,"end":14709.44,"text":"好 那我再重新宣讀"},{"start":14710.79,"end":14716.79,"text":"第四節 核子保安與應變提案案號第72案至第79案審查結果"},{"start":14716.79,"end":14720.79,"text":"第75、76、78等案改為主決議"},{"start":14722.18,"end":14725.18,"text":"接著我們來處理第四幕環境輻射"},{"start":14725.18,"end":14726.18,"text":"來 各位請委員"},{"start":14727.7,"end":14730.7,"text":"不好意思 因為我剛剛去那個別的委員會質詢"},{"start":14730.7,"end":14737.7,"text":"那個我補充一下就是剛剛討論那個53案跟就是60跟69"},{"start":14737.7,"end":14738.7,"text":"我可以改為主決議"},{"start":14738.7,"end":14739.7,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":14746.46,"end":14748.46,"text":"好 我來補充宣告"},{"start":14748.74,"end":14757.74,"text":"第二幕的部分第53、69、60、69等三案增加改為主決議"},{"start":14757.74,"end":14760.74,"text":"好 我們接著處理第四幕環境輻射偵測"},{"start":14760.74,"end":14763.74,"text":"提案案號是第80案至第86案"},{"start":14763.74,"end":14765.74,"text":"有沒有提案委員要做說明"},{"start":14765.74,"end":14770.74,"text":"來 柯正恩委員 蔡榛崇委員 林益景委員 陳秀芭委員"},{"start":14770.74,"end":14771.74,"text":"好 我是第82案"},{"start":14771.74,"end":14774.74,"text":"剛剛羅志祥委員也提到有時候有關於河島"},{"start":14774.74,"end":14777.74,"text":"這福島河災有關於寒川廢水的排放"},{"start":14777.74,"end":14778.74,"text":"我之前也特別問過"},{"start":14778.74,"end":14785.74,"text":"因為你們曾經有四次派員到福島周邊漁港跟海水浴場來實地採樣"},{"start":14785.74,"end":14790.74,"text":"然後你們也把這個採樣的分析結果也放在這個平台當中"},{"start":14790.74,"end":14793.74,"text":"但是因為我們有受到一些民眾對這件事情的疑問"},{"start":14793.74,"end":14796.74,"text":"他們根本不知道河岸會過去去日本採樣"},{"start":14796.74,"end":14797.74,"text":"也不知道你們有做過分析"},{"start":14797.74,"end":14801.74,"text":"也更不曉得你們會把它寫成出國報告 好不好"},{"start":14801.74,"end":14805.74,"text":"所以這個東西 我的意思就是說我肯定你們的用心"},{"start":14805.74,"end":14808.74,"text":"但是花這麼多心思 然後這些低手的資料"},{"start":14808.74,"end":14811.74,"text":"就是要讓大家放心 然後民眾不太清楚"},{"start":14811.74,"end":14815.74,"text":"所以你們就應該讓大家知道說你可以放心採購相關的食品"},{"start":14815.74,"end":14818.74,"text":"而不是民眾上網之後還要經過層層連結"},{"start":14818.74,"end":14821.74,"text":"打到我們辦公室好多的關卡 才這些資訊"},{"start":14821.74,"end":14824.74,"text":"我現在都快變成你們的對外窗口了 好不好 各位"},{"start":14824.74,"end":14826.74,"text":"所以說你們有來溝通"},{"start":14826.74,"end":14829.74,"text":"所以我還是覺得說看要什麼樣的方法"},{"start":14829.74,"end":14831.74,"text":"不是寫在這個報告當中"},{"start":14831.74,"end":14834.74,"text":"可以提升你們的透明度還有查詢便利"},{"start":14834.74,"end":14838.74,"text":"所以我覺得這部分我可以達成這個主決議 好不好"},{"start":14838.74,"end":14841.74,"text":"好 謝謝 接下來蔡村首委員"},{"start":14843.92,"end":14847.92,"text":"謝謝主席 我針對86案來做個說明"},{"start":14847.92,"end":14853.92,"text":"那和安會已經提出了63站 5分鐘更新及公開平台"},{"start":14853.92,"end":14857.92,"text":"本席肯定下一步要確認異常的一個通報"},{"start":14857.92,"end":14861.92,"text":"還有資料品質跟新技術的一個導入期程"},{"start":14861.92,"end":14868.92,"text":"那請能夠補充5.1 63座的一個監測站"},{"start":14868.92,"end":14871.92,"text":"1. 佈置位置跟佈建原則"},{"start":14871.92,"end":14874.92,"text":"2. 異常值分級的標準"},{"start":14874.92,"end":14878.92,"text":"3. 通報機制及地方政府通知流程"},{"start":14878.92,"end":14884.92,"text":"4. Open data 資料格式是否利於外部檢核跟民間使用"},{"start":14884.92,"end":14889.92,"text":"5. 新世代的一個智慧監測站 116年完成後"},{"start":14889.92,"end":14892.92,"text":"何時導入現有的一個系統 導入幾站"},{"start":14892.92,"end":14894.92,"text":"優先順序為何"},{"start":14894.92,"end":14901.92,"text":"5. 新型的核種鑑北偵測器如何提升事故早期判讀的能力"},{"start":14901.92,"end":14902.92,"text":"請提出報告"},{"start":14902.92,"end":14907.92,"text":"那本席可以將這個案並案凍結 以上"},{"start":14909.07,"end":14912.07,"text":"好 謝謝 接下來請陳秀寶委員"},{"start":14912.95,"end":14913.95,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":14914.36,"end":14915.36,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":14915.36,"end":14917.36,"text":"在最後我的案子是第81案"},{"start":14917.36,"end":14922.36,"text":"81案的部分是關於我們環境輻射偵測的這個經費"},{"start":14922.36,"end":14928.36,"text":"那我們有設置這個輻射自動監測站"},{"start":14928.36,"end":14932.36,"text":"那相關的儀器設備呢"},{"start":14932.36,"end":14938.36,"text":"今年已經汰換了6...8台這個監測站的儀器"},{"start":14938.36,"end":14941.36,"text":"那同時又編列新購10台"},{"start":14941.36,"end":14944.36,"text":"但是我們核安會這邊已經有透過新的這個"},{"start":14944.36,"end":14948.36,"text":"我們有開發出具備新技術的這個監測站的設備"},{"start":14948.36,"end":14950.36,"text":"那你為什麼還要再買這10台"},{"start":14950.36,"end":14953.36,"text":"那核安會有說明就是說新購這10台呢"},{"start":14953.36,"end":14956.36,"text":"是為了維持足夠的儲備備用機"},{"start":14956.36,"end":14960.36,"text":"那相關的這些說明呢 我是可以接受"},{"start":14960.36,"end":14963.36,"text":"我這個案子我可以改成主決議"},{"start":14963.36,"end":14966.36,"text":"但是我希望說你們這邊可以給一份報告"},{"start":14966.36,"end":14973.36,"text":"就是關於你們新增的這個鑑別放射性核種功能的這個新型偵測器呢"},{"start":14973.36,"end":14977.36,"text":"是不是關於你們這個新的偵測器的研究研發進度"},{"start":14977.36,"end":14981.36,"text":"以及後續你們規劃相關的這個報告給我一份 謝謝"},{"start":14981.36,"end":14983.36,"text":"好 還有沒有其他委員"},{"start":14983.36,"end":14987.36,"text":"好 那我這邊是第95案做一個簡單說明"},{"start":14987.36,"end":14993.36,"text":"就是特別關心希望核安會可以依法來督促台電"},{"start":14993.36,"end":14997.36,"text":"要積極辦理乾式儲存設施興建跟運轉的作業"},{"start":14997.36,"end":15001.36,"text":"確保我們這些用過的核子燃料儲存的安全"},{"start":15001.36,"end":15003.36,"text":"那我這個就改為主決議"},{"start":15003.36,"end":15005.36,"text":"好 那有沒有要請核安會說明"},{"start":15007.81,"end":15010.81,"text":"好 那核安會針對地質目環境輻射偵測的部分"},{"start":15010.81,"end":15012.81,"text":"簡單補充說明"},{"start":15012.81,"end":15014.81,"text":"有關柯委員提到那個出國報告資訊部分"},{"start":15014.81,"end":15015.81,"text":"謝謝委員的關心"},{"start":15015.81,"end":15019.81,"text":"那未來我們除了在我們的資訊平台有一些出國報告的連結外"},{"start":15019.81,"end":15027.81,"text":"我們也會再要未來我們出國的一些檢測或者是資訊"},{"start":15027.81,"end":15031.81,"text":"我們會把它放在平台上讓民眾可以更容易查詢"},{"start":15031.81,"end":15034.81,"text":"那另外有關這個智慧監測站的部分"},{"start":15034.81,"end":15041.81,"text":"那我們其實是針對現有的63站來做強化他的多電源的功能及模組的管理"},{"start":15041.81,"end":15045.81,"text":"以及能夠做這個核種的鑑別"},{"start":15045.81,"end":15050.81,"text":"那相關的這個進度以及未來的這個導入"},{"start":15050.81,"end":15054.81,"text":"我們會在我們的報告裡面詳細說明"},{"start":15054.81,"end":15055.81,"text":"以上"},{"start":15056.33,"end":15058.33,"text":"好,如果沒有其他意見"},{"start":15058.33,"end":15061.33,"text":"我就來宣讀審查結果"},{"start":15061.33,"end":15063.33,"text":"是不是預算就照列"},{"start":15063.57,"end":15068.57,"text":"好,那第四幕環境輻射偵測提案案號第80案至第86案"},{"start":15068.57,"end":15069.57,"text":"審查結果如下"},{"start":15069.57,"end":15073.57,"text":"第81、82、85等案改為主決議"},{"start":15073.57,"end":15075.57,"text":"其餘預算照列"},{"start":15075.57,"end":15076.57,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":15076.57,"end":15077.57,"text":"接著處理第五幕"},{"start":15077.57,"end":15084.57,"text":"核物料的管制業務提案案號是第87至第97案"},{"start":15084.57,"end":15086.57,"text":"有沒有委員要說明"},{"start":15086.57,"end":15090.57,"text":"請柯振宏委員、林益晉委員、郭怡芹委員、陳秀芳委員、蔡春雄委員"},{"start":15091.36,"end":15094.36,"text":"好,我是第87跟93一併來做說明"},{"start":15094.36,"end":15096.36,"text":"就像我今天所提到的"},{"start":15096.36,"end":15099.36,"text":"87案是有關於核物料管制的業務"},{"start":15099.36,"end":15101.36,"text":"那都是來督導台電"},{"start":15101.36,"end":15104.36,"text":"督促台電來做這個最終處置"},{"start":15104.36,"end":15106.36,"text":"中期處置的方法"},{"start":15106.36,"end":15108.36,"text":"我也問過何涵惠非常多次"},{"start":15108.36,"end":15111.36,"text":"然後你們都從罰款下變成違規事項"},{"start":15111.36,"end":15114.36,"text":"還沒有辦法讓這個台電提出硬硬的計畫"},{"start":15114.36,"end":15118.36,"text":"後來你們卻又把它改成注意事項"},{"start":15118.36,"end":15120.36,"text":"然後結果到目前為止"},{"start":15120.36,"end":15124.36,"text":"那個專辦連最終處置條例目前為止都還是拿不出來"},{"start":15124.36,"end":15126.36,"text":"我也不知道該怎麼樣來逼迫何涵惠"},{"start":15126.36,"end":15129.36,"text":"我也覺得對你們感到非常的無奈"},{"start":15129.36,"end":15130.36,"text":"你們也很無力"},{"start":15130.36,"end":15132.36,"text":"然後大家就這樣彼此笑一笑好不好各位"},{"start":15132.36,"end":15133.36,"text":"要怎麼做"},{"start":15133.36,"end":15136.36,"text":"而且你看第93案就是我剛剛所質詢"},{"start":15136.36,"end":15139.36,"text":"核一核二三案這個室內的儲存設施的招標"},{"start":15139.36,"end":15141.36,"text":"其實已經有延宕了"},{"start":15141.36,"end":15142.36,"text":"那現在要重啟"},{"start":15142.36,"end":15147.36,"text":"所以我們也希望這個乾儲存設施的供給師傅"},{"start":15147.36,"end":15150.36,"text":"都已經完全關乎到後續重啟的時間"},{"start":15150.36,"end":15154.36,"text":"所以我想你們何涵惠有表示會再多出台電"},{"start":15154.36,"end":15156.36,"text":"但是從過去的經驗來看"},{"start":15156.36,"end":15159.36,"text":"已經是力道已經明顯的不足"},{"start":15159.36,"end":15164.36,"text":"所以我還是認為這個部分應該是第87、93"},{"start":15164.36,"end":15167.36,"text":"並按在第5當中我認為還是要凍結100萬"},{"start":15167.36,"end":15170.36,"text":"所以你們盡快做好這個多出台電"},{"start":15170.36,"end":15172.36,"text":"不然我們叫台電幫你負責100萬好了"},{"start":15172.36,"end":15173.36,"text":"因為是你們多出台電"},{"start":15173.36,"end":15174.36,"text":"他們都不做"},{"start":15174.36,"end":15176.36,"text":"你們不做我們當然有意見"},{"start":15176.36,"end":15179.36,"text":"我們有意見我們還是要做出這樣子的一個凍結"},{"start":15179.36,"end":15181.36,"text":"希望能拿出更積極的做法"},{"start":15181.36,"end":15183.36,"text":"這個循環我也不知道該怎麼辦"},{"start":15183.36,"end":15187.36,"text":"但是我認為87、93應該在第5目當中並按"},{"start":15187.36,"end":15188.36,"text":"來改動100萬"},{"start":15188.36,"end":15190.36,"text":"好謝謝柯志銘委員"},{"start":15190.36,"end":15192.36,"text":"接下來有請林一金委員"},{"start":15192.36,"end":15193.36,"text":"好謝主席"},{"start":15193.36,"end":15195.36,"text":"這一案是有關我是92案"},{"start":15195.36,"end":15199.36,"text":"這是有關於高放射性廢棄物處置條例"},{"start":15199.36,"end":15202.36,"text":"也就是所謂的高放條例的嚴密"},{"start":15202.36,"end":15203.36,"text":"因為我們知道"},{"start":15203.36,"end":15206.36,"text":"雖然主導在經濟部的專案辦公室在處理"},{"start":15206.36,"end":15210.36,"text":"可是核安會也應該要致於延攜國際上最先進的資訊"},{"start":15210.36,"end":15213.36,"text":"以立委國這個相關單位來做參考"},{"start":15213.36,"end":15216.36,"text":"所以這個案我可以改主決議"},{"start":15216.36,"end":15218.36,"text":"可是我希望後續的進度"},{"start":15218.36,"end":15220.36,"text":"要適時的跟委員會報告"},{"start":15220.36,"end":15223.36,"text":"就是高放條例的這個嚴密的過程"},{"start":15223.36,"end":15224.36,"text":"好以上"},{"start":15224.79,"end":15226.79,"text":"好接下來有請修法委員"},{"start":15229.7,"end":15230.7,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":15230.7,"end":15233.7,"text":"在這個部分我的案子是第97案"},{"start":15233.7,"end":15237.7,"text":"主要也是關心這個室內乾除設施"},{"start":15237.7,"end":15239.7,"text":"核安會這邊有說明"},{"start":15239.7,"end":15243.7,"text":"合一合二合三的室內乾除設施"},{"start":15243.7,"end":15246.7,"text":"正在辦理不要採購作業"},{"start":15246.7,"end":15249.7,"text":"而且每個月也有就安全管制議題"},{"start":15249.7,"end":15251.7,"text":"跟台電進行討論"},{"start":15253.38,"end":15255.38,"text":"這個大家都非常關心"},{"start":15255.38,"end":15258.38,"text":"但是一直關心但是進度也不是"},{"start":15258.38,"end":15260.38,"text":"不是你們很積極監督"},{"start":15260.38,"end":15262.38,"text":"他進度就會有加快"},{"start":15262.38,"end":15264.38,"text":"這個部分我還是希望說"},{"start":15264.38,"end":15266.38,"text":"你們在你們的職責上"},{"start":15266.38,"end":15270.38,"text":"這個監督他們盡快的有在這個相關的"},{"start":15270.38,"end":15272.38,"text":"有個進度上是你們的職責"},{"start":15272.38,"end":15275.38,"text":"那這個部分我是可以改主決議"},{"start":15275.38,"end":15278.38,"text":"但是希望說這個再積極一點"},{"start":15278.38,"end":15279.38,"text":"以上"},{"start":15280.41,"end":15281.41,"text":"好謝謝修法委員"},{"start":15281.41,"end":15283.41,"text":"接下來請陳丞委員"},{"start":15283.41,"end":15284.41,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":15284.41,"end":15287.41,"text":"我針對96案來做一個說明"},{"start":15287.41,"end":15290.41,"text":"那核安會已經公開不少一個資料"},{"start":15290.41,"end":15292.41,"text":"本來的關心是"},{"start":15292.41,"end":15296.41,"text":"核廢料資訊是否更可讀更可追蹤"},{"start":15296.41,"end":15301.41,"text":"並能夠回應核三在運轉的情況下的一個社會疑慮"},{"start":15301.41,"end":15304.41,"text":"那請核安會能夠補充5.1"},{"start":15304.41,"end":15308.41,"text":"各核電廠用過的核子燃料存放的一個現況"},{"start":15308.41,"end":15311.41,"text":"乾純儲存的一個審查進度"},{"start":15311.41,"end":15315.41,"text":"還有熱測試期的一個期程"},{"start":15315.41,"end":15320.41,"text":"二是第一放設性廢棄物"},{"start":15320.41,"end":15322.41,"text":"南宜的一個儲存場"},{"start":15322.41,"end":15324.41,"text":"儲益的一個廢棄物"},{"start":15324.41,"end":15328.41,"text":"最新的一個儲存量及安全的一個管制的一個狀態"},{"start":15328.41,"end":15334.41,"text":"三是乾式的一個儲存資訊是否包含台電改善進度"},{"start":15334.41,"end":15336.41,"text":"還有地方溝通的情形"},{"start":15336.41,"end":15341.41,"text":"四是研究報告送國家圖書館公閱讀之外"},{"start":15341.41,"end":15347.41,"text":"是否能夠以摘要或是圖表方式能夠公開重要的一個成果"},{"start":15347.41,"end":15351.41,"text":"五是回合料議題的一個如何納入核三"},{"start":15351.41,"end":15355.41,"text":"在運轉審查資訊公開跟風險溝通"},{"start":15355.41,"end":15359.41,"text":"希望能夠提供報告到本案"},{"start":15359.41,"end":15361.41,"text":"那這個我可以並按來凍結"},{"start":15361.41,"end":15362.41,"text":"以上"},{"start":15363.35,"end":15364.35,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":15364.35,"end":15365.35,"text":"還有沒有其他委員意見"},{"start":15365.35,"end":15369.35,"text":"沒有的話是不是需要請和安會做說明"},{"start":15369.35,"end":15371.35,"text":"和安會請你要說明一下"},{"start":15371.35,"end":15374.35,"text":"那這一幕的預算2300萬"},{"start":15374.35,"end":15377.35,"text":"其實用在全國放設性廢料的管理"},{"start":15377.35,"end":15378.35,"text":"包括它的設施"},{"start":15378.35,"end":15381.35,"text":"那既有的設施也大概二三十座"},{"start":15381.35,"end":15384.35,"text":"那像乾式儲存和乾式儲存"},{"start":15384.35,"end":15386.35,"text":"目前施運轉過程中"},{"start":15386.35,"end":15388.35,"text":"其實我們是每日派員檢查"},{"start":15388.35,"end":15392.35,"text":"那所有的台電公司所有的申請案"},{"start":15392.35,"end":15396.35,"text":"我們都會如期的來完成它的審查作業"},{"start":15396.35,"end":15398.35,"text":"那另外有關"},{"start":15398.35,"end":15400.35,"text":"因為海安會是一個行政機關"},{"start":15400.35,"end":15403.35,"text":"所以我們有必要引入外部的研發動能"},{"start":15403.35,"end":15406.35,"text":"研發量能來提升我們的管制的強度"},{"start":15406.35,"end":15411.35,"text":"所以這裡面我們有對於地方乾除跟處置"},{"start":15411.35,"end":15413.35,"text":"有做那個研發"},{"start":15413.35,"end":15416.35,"text":"那剛才委員所提到的這個研發成果的展現"},{"start":15416.35,"end":15418.35,"text":"我們也會來辦理"},{"start":15418.35,"end":15420.35,"text":"那主動提供台電公司"},{"start":15420.35,"end":15425.35,"text":"台電公司高放選址條例的國外的一些參考意見"},{"start":15425.35,"end":15428.35,"text":"我們都會照案處理"},{"start":15428.35,"end":15431.35,"text":"那就請委員支持我們的預算以上"},{"start":15432.15,"end":15434.15,"text":"好 那有沒有其他意見"},{"start":15434.15,"end":15436.15,"text":"如果沒有的話"},{"start":15436.15,"end":15438.15,"text":"我們就來處理這個第五幕"},{"start":15438.15,"end":15442.15,"text":"那剛才柯志文委員有提到凍結病動100萬"},{"start":15442.15,"end":15444.15,"text":"大家有沒有意見"},{"start":15444.74,"end":15446.74,"text":"好 沒有意見 我來宣讀審查結果"},{"start":15448.94,"end":15453.94,"text":"第五幕合物料管制業物體案案號第87至第97案"},{"start":15453.94,"end":15455.94,"text":"審查結果如下"},{"start":15455.94,"end":15458.94,"text":"第91、92、95、97等案"},{"start":15458.94,"end":15460.94,"text":"改為主決議"},{"start":15461.38,"end":15464.38,"text":"本幕合併凍結100萬"},{"start":15464.38,"end":15466.38,"text":"並針對各凍結提案之要求"},{"start":15466.38,"end":15471.38,"text":"依審查會決議提出書面報告後使得動之"},{"start":15471.38,"end":15472.38,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":15472.38,"end":15474.38,"text":"接著處理第二款第12項"},{"start":15474.38,"end":15477.38,"text":"核能安全委員會即所屬之主決議"},{"start":15477.38,"end":15482.38,"text":"提案案號是第98案至第113案"},{"start":15482.38,"end":15484.38,"text":"那各位有沒有什麼意見"},{"start":15485.34,"end":15487.34,"text":"好 來 國語情委員"},{"start":15488.28,"end":15491.28,"text":"好 我講一下100案跟101案"},{"start":15493.19,"end":15497.19,"text":"這個100案其實是為了要保障急診室的其他的一些病患"},{"start":15497.19,"end":15501.19,"text":"還有家屬 還有非輻射工作人員的健康跟安全"},{"start":15501.19,"end":15503.19,"text":"所以這個部分我希望能夠更建立"},{"start":15503.19,"end":15507.19,"text":"更清晰可行的一個安全的操作的一個範圍"},{"start":15507.19,"end":15512.19,"text":"如果說這個核安會將來有精進的一些管制的措施跟方案"},{"start":15512.19,"end":15515.19,"text":"也麻煩可以再提供給我"},{"start":15515.19,"end":15517.19,"text":"那101案的部分"},{"start":15517.19,"end":15522.19,"text":"我想這個國安的健康跟海域的一個生態的安全"},{"start":15522.19,"end":15526.19,"text":"海域的輻射監測不能有一天有空窗期"},{"start":15526.19,"end":15531.19,"text":"那這個部分我們也要求是不是能夠將這個海域監測的一個核心的"},{"start":15531.19,"end":15534.19,"text":"應該是說核心的一個標準跟制度化的一個規劃"},{"start":15534.19,"end":15538.19,"text":"能夠有一些更具體的一個書面的說明"},{"start":15538.19,"end":15542.19,"text":"那這個部分我們有特別的堅持都是主決議沒有問題"},{"start":15542.19,"end":15543.19,"text":"好 以上"},{"start":15543.19,"end":15544.19,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":15544.19,"end":15546.19,"text":"那核安會有沒有意見"},{"start":15548.16,"end":15549.16,"text":"好 請到辦理"},{"start":15578.16,"end":15580.16,"text":"1案至第6案"},{"start":15580.16,"end":15582.16,"text":"有沒有委員要說明"},{"start":15582.16,"end":15584.16,"text":"來 柯震恩委員 林奕晶委員"},{"start":15585.23,"end":15587.23,"text":"好 我是第2案跟第4案"},{"start":15587.23,"end":15593.23,"text":"第2案是關於目前核安會分合作的兩間服務社的這個檢驗室檢測能力的問題"},{"start":15593.23,"end":15598.23,"text":"我想這個大概每一年都會被預算審查之後被拿出來討論"},{"start":15598.23,"end":15602.23,"text":"那兩間每年最大的檢驗量是3,800"},{"start":15602.23,"end":15605.23,"text":"但實際檢驗量卻落差很大都不到1,000件"},{"start":15605.23,"end":15609.23,"text":"那我想核安會有來溝通表示每年都有在進步"},{"start":15609.23,"end":15611.23,"text":"希望給核安會更多的時間"},{"start":15611.23,"end":15614.23,"text":"好 那這個部分我同意改成主決議"},{"start":15614.23,"end":15617.23,"text":"然後 但是還是希望能夠真的是在進步"},{"start":15617.23,"end":15618.23,"text":"因為落差太大了"},{"start":15618.23,"end":15620.23,"text":"那第4案的地方的時候"},{"start":15620.23,"end":15623.23,"text":"因為去年核山廠這個火災事故的時候"},{"start":15623.23,"end":15626.23,"text":"台電沒有在第一時間通報地方政府"},{"start":15626.23,"end":15628.23,"text":"雖然這不是核子的事故"},{"start":15628.23,"end":15632.23,"text":"但也顯示這個通報的機制上面是有檢討必要的改進嘛"},{"start":15632.23,"end":15634.23,"text":"那我想核安會也來說明"},{"start":15634.23,"end":15639.23,"text":"然後也督促台電來通盤檢視對外通報的程序跟改善"},{"start":15639.23,"end":15642.23,"text":"所以我也願意把它改成主決議"},{"start":15642.23,"end":15645.23,"text":"但是我還是一句話也不曉得有沒有用"},{"start":15645.23,"end":15650.23,"text":"持續督促台電 落實相關演練 好不好"},{"start":15650.23,"end":15651.23,"text":"好 二跟四"},{"start":15651.23,"end":15653.23,"text":"好 非常謝謝柯臻安委員"},{"start":15653.23,"end":15655.23,"text":"接下來怡君委員"},{"start":15655.23,"end":15656.23,"text":"好 謝謝主席"},{"start":15656.23,"end":15659.23,"text":"我是第五案跟第六案我一併來提"},{"start":15659.23,"end":15664.23,"text":"第五案是針對通報的機制"},{"start":15664.23,"end":15668.23,"text":"那第六案是有關於消防應變集結點"},{"start":15668.23,"end":15670.23,"text":"是否要重新盤點的問題"},{"start":15670.23,"end":15672.23,"text":"針對第五案"},{"start":15672.23,"end":15675.23,"text":"我們去年跟科委員講的一樣"},{"start":15675.23,"end":15677.23,"text":"我們去年核三廠的火災"},{"start":15677.23,"end":15680.23,"text":"還有我們這個月核二廠也有發生火災"},{"start":15680.23,"end":15684.23,"text":"相關通報機制是否完備 還有應對是否迅速"},{"start":15684.23,"end":15686.23,"text":"這核安會當然也有來說明"},{"start":15686.23,"end":15690.23,"text":"就是說消防演練會通報程序納入演練"},{"start":15690.23,"end":15695.23,"text":"也會敦促核電廠應變人員來熟練通報的作業"},{"start":15695.23,"end":15699.23,"text":"那關於這個後者"},{"start":15699.23,"end":15703.23,"text":"我當然也希望說這個防護的應變集結點這部分"},{"start":15703.23,"end":15706.23,"text":"應該要隨時的滾動式的檢討"},{"start":15706.23,"end":15709.23,"text":"因為畢竟我們一次颱風來"},{"start":15709.23,"end":15714.23,"text":"那可能又會使某些地方的災害的檢視區域範圍又擴大"},{"start":15714.23,"end":15719.23,"text":"所以我覺得這個滾動式的檢討的必要"},{"start":15719.23,"end":15722.23,"text":"那所以應該每次豪大雨發生"},{"start":15722.23,"end":15724.23,"text":"我們就應該要重新檢視過一遍"},{"start":15724.23,"end":15728.23,"text":"那所以經過這個核安會的說明"},{"start":15728.23,"end":15731.23,"text":"我可以改成這兩案我都可以改成主決議"},{"start":15731.23,"end":15733.23,"text":"可是我希望說核安會都要落實"},{"start":15733.23,"end":15736.23,"text":"辦理這個隨時檢討的內容跟流程"},{"start":15736.23,"end":15737.23,"text":"以上"},{"start":15738.03,"end":15740.03,"text":"好 謝謝林進委員"},{"start":15740.03,"end":15743.03,"text":"好 那其他委員應該沒有意見"},{"start":15743.03,"end":15746.03,"text":"那核安會有要做說明嗎 還是"},{"start":15746.79,"end":15747.79,"text":"好 謝謝委員"},{"start":15747.79,"end":15749.79,"text":"委員督促我們就是要持續的"},{"start":15749.79,"end":15752.79,"text":"就是協助像倍人實驗室以及多數台電公司"},{"start":15752.79,"end":15754.79,"text":"這些我們都會持續的努力"},{"start":15754.79,"end":15757.79,"text":"好 那是不是我們就預算照列"},{"start":15757.79,"end":15758.79,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":15758.79,"end":15762.79,"text":"基金用途提案案號第一案至第六案審查結果如下"},{"start":15762.79,"end":15767.79,"text":"第1、2、3、4、5、6全部改為主決議"},{"start":15767.79,"end":15768.79,"text":"預算照列"},{"start":15768.79,"end":15770.79,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":15770.79,"end":15775.79,"text":"核子事故緊急應變基金全案處理完畢"},{"start":15775.79,"end":15779.79,"text":"繼續處理行政法人國家原子能科技研究院"},{"start":15779.79,"end":15781.79,"text":"業務計畫終之營運計畫"},{"start":15781.79,"end":15784.79,"text":"提案案號第一案至第六案"},{"start":15784.79,"end":15786.79,"text":"有沒有委員"},{"start":15786.79,"end":15789.79,"text":"好 來 從後面秀寶委員 玉琴委員"},{"start":15789.79,"end":15791.79,"text":"怡君委員 智恩委員 謝謝"},{"start":15794.8,"end":15795.8,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":15795.8,"end":15799.8,"text":"在這個部分呢 我的案子是第二案 第三案及第五案"},{"start":15799.8,"end":15802.8,"text":"第二案的部分呢 是對於說"},{"start":15804.08,"end":15808.08,"text":"我們現在對於我們的這個"},{"start":15808.74,"end":15812.74,"text":"海域放射性物質擴散玉璟安全的這個相關的執行"},{"start":15812.74,"end":15816.74,"text":"現在所試驗的這個生物的物種"},{"start":15816.74,"end":15819.74,"text":"以及核種的這個範圍是相對的有限"},{"start":15819.74,"end":15824.74,"text":"這樣子的這麼局限呢 其實很難充分反映出海域生態系中"},{"start":15824.74,"end":15829.74,"text":"不同熟練層級跟多樣的核種的傳輸跟累積特性"},{"start":15829.74,"end":15832.74,"text":"所以這邊呢 我提這個案子是希望說"},{"start":15832.74,"end":15836.74,"text":"提醒我們應該要擴充我們這個研究的對象"},{"start":15836.74,"end":15841.74,"text":"是不是要納入更多具代表性的海洋生物的這個類群"},{"start":15841.74,"end":15844.74,"text":"以及關鍵的核種 那國研院這邊要來說明說"},{"start":15844.74,"end":15850.74,"text":"目前進行的這個計畫呢 是42137結斯90"},{"start":15850.74,"end":15852.74,"text":"這個核種的這個養殖試驗"},{"start":15852.74,"end":15857.74,"text":"也模擬探討海洋生物體內核種的這個累積的狀況"},{"start":15857.74,"end":15861.74,"text":"那本期希望說 核安會呢 進行相關試驗之後"},{"start":15861.74,"end":15865.74,"text":"能夠把研究的數據也提供給民眾參考"},{"start":15865.74,"end":15867.74,"text":"我們放在我們的網站上"},{"start":15867.74,"end":15871.74,"text":"那我想了解一下說 像這樣子"},{"start":15871.74,"end":15876.74,"text":"我們預計多久可以公布相關的這個研究的數據"},{"start":15876.74,"end":15878.74,"text":"等一下請我們這邊再說明一下"},{"start":15880.88,"end":15885.88,"text":"第三案的部分呢 是關於SMR的研究計畫"},{"start":15885.88,"end":15887.88,"text":"那國研院這邊你沒有說明說"},{"start":15887.88,"end":15892.88,"text":"會針對不同類型的SMR產生這個高階核廢料的這個特性來進行研究"},{"start":15892.88,"end":15898.88,"text":"也會建立模型 來針對不同的這個SMR使用過的核子燃料"},{"start":15898.88,"end":15900.88,"text":"經過ADS轉化之後"},{"start":15900.88,"end":15905.88,"text":"最終需要處置的高放射性的核廢料的減量以及相關的研究"},{"start":15905.88,"end":15909.88,"text":"本期也希望說 核安會這邊要評估"},{"start":15909.88,"end":15912.88,"text":"這個SMR所需要的安全防護條件"},{"start":15912.88,"end":15915.88,"text":"跟目前的核反應爐是不是一樣"},{"start":15915.88,"end":15918.88,"text":"來評估台灣是不是適合設置"},{"start":15918.88,"end":15920.88,"text":"這個等一下也請說明一下"},{"start":15920.88,"end":15923.88,"text":"第三個案子是第五案"},{"start":15923.88,"end":15925.88,"text":"第五案的部分呢"},{"start":15925.88,"end":15929.88,"text":"主要是針對我國這個核醫藥的這個體系"},{"start":15929.88,"end":15935.88,"text":"我們核醫藥物的自主化以及應變的這個藥物的儲備"},{"start":15935.88,"end":15937.88,"text":"因為核醫藥跟一般的藥比較不一樣"},{"start":15937.88,"end":15940.88,"text":"就是說它的這個放射性的半衰期"},{"start":15940.88,"end":15944.88,"text":"它這個藥物出爐之後"},{"start":15944.88,"end":15948.88,"text":"它的藥效會隨時間很快迅速的這個衰減"},{"start":15948.88,"end":15952.88,"text":"所以說這沒有辦法長期或大量的儲存"},{"start":15952.88,"end":15957.88,"text":"那目前我國對於這個相關的這些核醫藥物"},{"start":15957.88,"end":15958.88,"text":"其實需求性是高的"},{"start":15958.88,"end":15963.88,"text":"但是我們自己的產能只有在50%左右"},{"start":15963.88,"end":15966.88,"text":"所以我們很多是要仰賴國外進口"},{"start":15966.88,"end":15970.88,"text":"但如果說國際之間有什麼緊急的狀況"},{"start":15970.88,"end":15973.88,"text":"像空運中斷還是他們的反應螺絲停機的"},{"start":15973.88,"end":15976.88,"text":"或是有其他的外力介入的話"},{"start":15976.88,"end":15980.88,"text":"可能就會造成這些藥物供應不穩甚至短缺"},{"start":15980.88,"end":15983.88,"text":"而造成民眾他在這個醫療需求上"},{"start":15983.88,"end":15986.88,"text":"會有這樣子的這種狀況發生"},{"start":15988.95,"end":15992.95,"text":"本席希望說國營會能夠逐步的來完善我們的產能"},{"start":15992.95,"end":15995.95,"text":"以確認說在緊急的狀況的時候"},{"start":15995.95,"end":16001.95,"text":"我們不會去影響到這個病人這個醫療這個需求"},{"start":16001.95,"end":16004.95,"text":"那這個部分等一下是不是也請做一下說明"},{"start":16004.95,"end":16005.95,"text":"以上"},{"start":16005.95,"end":16007.95,"text":"好現在請國瑜親委員"},{"start":16011.39,"end":16014.39,"text":"好我的部分是針對第一跟第六"},{"start":16014.39,"end":16019.39,"text":"那我想攸關這個國家轉型的這個關鍵的靜雲排放"},{"start":16019.39,"end":16022.39,"text":"還有這個小型的核能SMR的一個研究"},{"start":16022.39,"end":16027.39,"text":"那也謝謝這個國醫院他這次有積極回應本席的一個提案"},{"start":16027.39,"end":16033.39,"text":"那麼除了第一時間有補上這個115年的這個計畫經費的名氣"},{"start":16033.39,"end":16035.39,"text":"那也承諾116年開始"},{"start":16035.39,"end":16040.39,"text":"就會全面的修正這個預算書上的總書名的一個表列的一個方式"},{"start":16040.39,"end":16045.39,"text":"那我想這個部分就是給予高度的一個肯定"},{"start":16045.39,"end":16050.39,"text":"那針對相關的這個研究的業務能夠順利的進行"},{"start":16050.39,"end":16054.39,"text":"所以在這個部分我沒有堅持要凍結"},{"start":16054.39,"end":16056.39,"text":"所以可以改成主決議"},{"start":16056.39,"end":16058.39,"text":"好那第六案的部分"},{"start":16058.39,"end":16062.39,"text":"我想這個第六的部分是國人長期最關心的"},{"start":16062.39,"end":16067.39,"text":"其實就是這個核後端的處理的一個風險的評估"},{"start":16067.39,"end":16069.39,"text":"還有這個最終處置的一個研究"},{"start":16069.39,"end":16072.39,"text":"這是最專業的一個技術的一個成果"},{"start":16072.39,"end":16076.39,"text":"都應該要進一步能夠轉化成所謂的科學的這個分析的基礎"},{"start":16076.39,"end":16081.39,"text":"那來協助這個國家推動更精確的一個政策的評估"},{"start":16081.39,"end":16087.39,"text":"那我想這個技術跟這個政策的效益其實不可能完全的分割"},{"start":16087.39,"end":16092.39,"text":"那國醫院這邊在這個發展的工程跟技術自主的同時"},{"start":16092.39,"end":16096.39,"text":"那我想也應該要去跨領域的一個視野"},{"start":16096.39,"end":16099.39,"text":"也讓更優秀的這個所謂的研究的一個成果"},{"start":16099.39,"end":16104.39,"text":"能夠讓可以接軌這個大眾最關心的一些核心的一個爭議"},{"start":16104.39,"end":16111.39,"text":"那因為這筆預算其實涉及到這個行政法人的這個財務自主跟對外的一個服務"},{"start":16111.39,"end":16115.39,"text":"那這個部分我就不堅持也可以改成主決議"},{"start":16115.39,"end":16116.39,"text":"好以上"},{"start":16116.39,"end":16120.39,"text":"好針對一到六案還有沒有其他意見"},{"start":16120.39,"end":16123.39,"text":"好需要核安會說明嗎"},{"start":16124,"end":16125,"text":"還是不用"},{"start":16127.68,"end":16128.68,"text":"好說明"},{"start":16128.68,"end":16130.68,"text":"好一到六案呢"},{"start":16131.15,"end":16132.15,"text":"對"},{"start":16133.53,"end":16135.53,"text":"來核安會要做說明"},{"start":16136.69,"end":16138.69,"text":"國研院"},{"start":16141.48,"end":16143.48,"text":"原子能科技研究院"},{"start":16143.48,"end":16144.48,"text":"麥克風麥克風聽不懂"},{"start":16145.82,"end":16146.82,"text":"有開了"},{"start":16147.71,"end":16152.71,"text":"對不起那個針對陳委員的質詢第一項是"},{"start":16152.87,"end":16156.87,"text":"生物這些養魚的實驗什麼時候會公佈"},{"start":16156.87,"end":16158.87,"text":"我們在計畫結束"},{"start":16158.87,"end":16160.87,"text":"今年年底計畫結束半年內會公佈"},{"start":16160.87,"end":16164.87,"text":"下一年底結束以後還要統計數據"},{"start":16164.87,"end":16166.87,"text":"半年內會公佈"},{"start":16166.87,"end":16169.87,"text":"那第二個是有關於SMR"},{"start":16173.8,"end":16175.8,"text":"那個是不是一致的問題"},{"start":16176.65,"end":16177.65,"text":"SMR"},{"start":16181.24,"end":16183.24,"text":"因為這屬於這個自投"},{"start":16185.76,"end":16187.76,"text":"第三案"},{"start":16193.22,"end":16194.22,"text":"第三案"},{"start":16195.37,"end":16197.37,"text":"SMR"},{"start":16198.22,"end":16200.22,"text":"還有ADS這一些"},{"start":16201.36,"end":16203.36,"text":"他的假設條件"},{"start":16203.36,"end":16206.36,"text":"是不是跟傳統的核電廠有差異"},{"start":16206.36,"end":16208.36,"text":"的確因為他是SMR"},{"start":16208.36,"end":16212.36,"text":"所以現在也沒有國際商用的產品可以用"},{"start":16212.36,"end":16215.36,"text":"但是他的緊急計畫區通常比較小"},{"start":16215.36,"end":16217.36,"text":"沒有像大型的那麼多"},{"start":16217.36,"end":16219.36,"text":"所以這個我們將來做評估以後"},{"start":16219.36,"end":16222.36,"text":"一加四年計畫做完會給政府"},{"start":16222.36,"end":16225.36,"text":"跟社會大眾一個確實的數據"},{"start":16225.36,"end":16228.36,"text":"最後一個是半衰期的問題"},{"start":16228.36,"end":16230.36,"text":"還有產能不足"},{"start":16230.36,"end":16234.36,"text":"國家藥物韌性也是賴總統所重視的一個計畫"},{"start":16234.36,"end":16236.36,"text":"我們就在裡面有11種核藥物"},{"start":16236.36,"end":16240.36,"text":"將來像以現在土耳林利我們大概供應國內"},{"start":16240.36,"end":16244.36,"text":"心臟需要做檢驗的大概四成"},{"start":16244.36,"end":16247.36,"text":"將來第二台加速器70%上來"},{"start":16247.36,"end":16248.36,"text":"就可以提高到七成"},{"start":16248.36,"end":16250.36,"text":"還有其他一些加速器"},{"start":16250.36,"end":16253.36,"text":"也像剛剛的加67%"},{"start":16253.36,"end":16255.36,"text":"我們會維持百分之八"},{"start":16255.36,"end":16257.36,"text":"比較少的也許一成到兩成"},{"start":16257.36,"end":16259.36,"text":"依照不同的藥物的特性"},{"start":16259.36,"end":16261.36,"text":"我們會提供兩成到百分之八"},{"start":16261.36,"end":16263.36,"text":"這樣的藥物韌性"},{"start":16263.36,"end":16267.36,"text":"現在很多藥物其中一半以上都是零"},{"start":16267.36,"end":16268.36,"text":"目前都是零"},{"start":16268.36,"end":16272.36,"text":"我們會把它達到一個藥物韌性要求的水平"},{"start":16272.36,"end":16273.36,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":16273.36,"end":16275.36,"text":"好謝謝說明"},{"start":16275.36,"end":16276.36,"text":"秀寶委員來"},{"start":16276.36,"end":16277.36,"text":"謝謝說明"},{"start":16277.36,"end":16280.36,"text":"那我這三個案子都可以改成主決議"},{"start":16281.58,"end":16285.58,"text":"好"},{"start":16285.58,"end":16288.58,"text":"那其餘是不是那個預算就照列"},{"start":16289.58,"end":16291.58,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":16291.22,"end":16293.22,"text":"好"},{"start":16293.98,"end":16296.98,"text":"OK 那我來宣讀一下審查結果"},{"start":16298.02,"end":16302.02,"text":"國研院業務計畫中置營運計畫第一案"},{"start":16302.02,"end":16304.02,"text":"至第六案審查結果如下"},{"start":16304.02,"end":16308.02,"text":"第1、2、3、5、6案改為主決議"},{"start":16308.43,"end":16310.43,"text":"請預算照列"},{"start":16310.74,"end":16311.74,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":16311.74,"end":16315.74,"text":"繼續來處理總支出提案案號是第7案"},{"start":16315.74,"end":16317.74,"text":"至第11案"},{"start":16317.74,"end":16319.74,"text":"來 柯志銘委員"},{"start":16319.74,"end":16320.74,"text":"我是第7案"},{"start":16320.74,"end":16323.74,"text":"那是有關於我今天早上質詢的有關於用人的情形"},{"start":16323.74,"end":16325.74,"text":"那在院聘人員的部分"},{"start":16325.74,"end":16327.74,"text":"近年大概都有超額禁用的狀況"},{"start":16327.74,"end":16331.74,"text":"但是實際檢視你包括技術人員研究人員行政當中"},{"start":16331.74,"end":16333.74,"text":"最重要的專業技術人員"},{"start":16333.74,"end":16336.74,"text":"我剛剛特別提到的每年都是招不滿的"},{"start":16336.74,"end":16337.74,"text":"那我當然可以理解"},{"start":16337.74,"end":16340.74,"text":"因為非核家院已經被降到三級單位"},{"start":16340.74,"end":16343.74,"text":"所以有非常多的這個專業的核工人才"},{"start":16343.74,"end":16345.74,"text":"都是流失或是退休"},{"start":16345.74,"end":16347.74,"text":"而且每一個國都在搶人才"},{"start":16347.74,"end":16349.74,"text":"所以技術人力真的是越來越不好造"},{"start":16349.74,"end":16353.74,"text":"那我想我可以同意這案是不是可以改成主決議"},{"start":16353.74,"end":16357.74,"text":"但是希望核安會在留財懶財的計畫上要更努力"},{"start":16357.74,"end":16358.74,"text":"好不好"},{"start":16358.74,"end":16361.74,"text":"第8案就稍微提醒一下"},{"start":16361.74,"end":16365.74,"text":"目前你們國研院的男女比例實在有點太失衡"},{"start":16366.74,"end":16369.74,"text":"60幾乎七成對三成"},{"start":16369.74,"end":16371.74,"text":"這個雖然有很大的改進"},{"start":16371.74,"end":16372.74,"text":"但是還是提醒一下好不好"},{"start":16372.74,"end":16375.74,"text":"在這個男女的比率上面還是要注意一下"},{"start":16375.74,"end":16378.74,"text":"這個我們這個STEM施行的這麼久"},{"start":16378.74,"end":16381.74,"text":"我個人認為6比4或許是一個可以的"},{"start":16381.74,"end":16383.74,"text":"7比3這有點太那個"},{"start":16383.74,"end":16386.739999999998,"text":"所以你要接一定要為這個副主委"},{"start":16386.739999999998,"end":16390.739999999998,"text":"一定要為那個核安會你是代表的好不好"},{"start":16390.739999999998,"end":16391.739999999998,"text":"好很重要"},{"start":16391.739999999998,"end":16392.739999999998,"text":"好就這兩個"},{"start":16392.739999999998,"end":16394.739999999998,"text":"那我決定可以把它改成主決議"},{"start":16394.74,"end":16396.74,"text":"好謝謝柯政委員還有其他委員"},{"start":16397.88,"end":16402.88,"text":"好那我這邊是有一個第11案我做簡單的說明"},{"start":16402.88,"end":16406.88,"text":"這個部分就是看到"},{"start":16406.88,"end":16409.88,"text":"國研院投入研發的經費"},{"start":16409.88,"end":16411.88,"text":"這些六項計畫"},{"start":16411.88,"end":16416.88,"text":"看起來都顯示促成投資的金額很有限"},{"start":16416.88,"end":16421.88,"text":"所以在這個地方希望能夠看到"},{"start":16421.88,"end":16426.88,"text":"就是提出測鏡精進的一些說明報告"},{"start":16426.88,"end":16427.88,"text":"就改為主決議"},{"start":16429.32,"end":16433.32,"text":"好那我就來宣讀一下"},{"start":16433.32,"end":16439.32,"text":"總支出提案案號第7案至第11案的審查結果"},{"start":16439.32,"end":16444.32,"text":"第7、8、11案改為主決議"},{"start":16444.32,"end":16446.32,"text":"其餘預算照列"},{"start":16446.32,"end":16451.32,"text":"謝謝大家繼續處理固定資產建設改良擴充"},{"start":16451.32,"end":16453.32,"text":"提案案號第12案"},{"start":16453.32,"end":16457.32,"text":"那這個案我也做一個簡單的說明"},{"start":16457.32,"end":16464.32,"text":"因為國研院是在做這個專利申請跟維護的建樹"},{"start":16464.32,"end":16470.32,"text":"可是我們看到歷年來好像都在逐年下降中"},{"start":16470.32,"end":16474.32,"text":"所以顯現這個研究的量能有待持續精進"},{"start":16474.32,"end":16477.32,"text":"那我也一樣希望可以看到"},{"start":16477.32,"end":16482.32,"text":"精進測鏡改進的一個說明書面報告"},{"start":16482.32,"end":16484.32,"text":"那我可以改為主決議"},{"start":16484.32,"end":16488.32,"text":"那我在這邊就宣讀固定資產建設改良擴充"},{"start":16488.32,"end":16491.32,"text":"提案案號第12案審查結果如下"},{"start":16491.32,"end":16495.32,"text":"第12案改為主決議預算照列"},{"start":16497.13,"end":16503.13,"text":"好,行政法人國家原子能科技研究院全案已審查完整"},{"start":16503.13,"end":16507.13,"text":"請問是否需交由黨團協商"},{"start":16508.25,"end":16512.25,"text":"好,本案不須交由黨團協商"},{"start":16513.38,"end":16515.38,"text":"好"},{"start":16514.52,"end":16527.52,"text":"謝謝,謝謝,謝謝各自委員"},{"start":16529.58,"end":16533.58,"text":"好,那我們現在審查完整,我來宣告"},{"start":16533.58,"end":16536.58,"text":"審查結果免於重複宣讀"},{"start":16536.58,"end":16538.58,"text":"在不影響文藝前提下"},{"start":16538.58,"end":16544.58,"text":"授權議事人員1.115年度中央政府總預算案審查報告"},{"start":16544.58,"end":16548.58,"text":"與黨團協商之範例整理列入紀錄"},{"start":16548.58,"end":16550.58,"text":"關於本次會議做如下決議"},{"start":16550.58,"end":16553.58,"text":"第一,115年度中央政府總預算案"},{"start":16553.58,"end":16557.58,"text":"有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預算案"},{"start":16557.58,"end":16563.58,"text":"核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預算案均已審查完整"},{"start":16563.58,"end":16570.58,"text":"第二,115年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預算案審查完整"},{"start":16570.58,"end":16576.58,"text":"擬具審查報告提請院會公決不須交由黨團協商"},{"start":16576.58,"end":16581.58,"text":"院會討論時由五召集委員立法補充說明"},{"start":16582.58,"end":16588.58,"text":"第三,對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆的部分"},{"start":16588.58,"end":16592.58,"text":"請相關機關儘速以書面答覆"},{"start":16604.48,"end":16607.48,"text":"國文院寫的"},{"start":16609.58,"end":16611.58,"text":"法輪功"},{"start":16617.77,"end":16618.77,"text":"謝謝"}],"speakers":[{"total_seconds":1868.81,"embed_id":"SPEAKER_00","speaker":"SPEAKER_00","embedding":"YbguvWY8grwjw4k8Q/ihvU6ljrxnieq89fOAvGVndb2btTe++QSTO3XljD12hti7T9aSPFGOub19Nz0855l+PcXknr1Z6Hw9PcH/PRMhNrxxTYK98GR/vd6NsD2wnd8904UNPWOX2j2n/Wu99IXhvRZECT1sjbe9fWqUPaoLHb1ywwS+fj3PvZGSSLnpbCi+SWjovLXyhL1AEXk9VRZJvVAdgL26P5w9bpczPfVOPbxHWdA9NXKhO/p7mj3GXhM+cq2RvKUI/DyZlOW9++rkO+zH5jxL4i292rAcvONg370zKkM8/js7PQYcX72VuIM86/2fvFrSpLyHXia6GlmfOhng2L06df89NWCCvIApGr2Ic8a86Wa/O8nogb20L7K7U6G1vPWH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