{"error":false,"id":["17464"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":17464,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17464","日期":"2026-05-25","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-35-18","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第18次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":18,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第18次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Full","開始時間":"2026-05-25T08:34:48+08:00","結束時間":"2026-05-25T12:34:00+08:00","影片長度":"03:59:12","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2db28ae05505236aa7a5bee36096d88136601341028818003d28a5b05ffb3aba595ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-05-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長林佳龍、國家安全局局長蔡明彥報告「美中元首峰會後地緣政治新局對我國外交及總體國家安全之衝擊評估與因應」，併請大陸委員會列席，並備質詢。）","委員名稱":"完整會議","委員發言時間":"08:34:48 - 12:34:00","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1655.5865937500002,"end":1658.5397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1661.8978437500002,"end":1662.5390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1663.3828437500001,"end":1664.5809687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1665.7284687500003,"end":1668.0572187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1668.8165937500003,"end":1670.1834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1670.95971875,"end":1685.2190937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1685.5565937500003,"end":1689.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1689.7584687500002,"end":1692.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1692.2897187500002,"end":1693.7072187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1693.9603437500002,"end":1695.9178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1696.2890937500001,"end":1698.3984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1698.78659375,"end":1702.5665937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1702.87034375,"end":1704.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1704.4903437500002,"end":1712.4722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1713.5353437500003,"end":1718.2265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1718.5978437500003,"end":1723.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1723.8628437500001,"end":1726.7315937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1727.18721875,"end":1729.4315937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1730.6803437500002,"end":1732.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1733.8865937500002,"end":1740.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1741.1934687500002,"end":1746.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1746.7115937500002,"end":1748.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1748.3990937500002,"end":1755.7734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1755.9759687500002,"end":1759.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1759.3678437500002,"end":1766.3203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1766.6747187500002,"end":1768.8009687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1769.1890937500002,"end":1774.2347187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1775.0615937500002,"end":1779.1790937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1779.5503437500001,"end":1789.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1789.8778437500002,"end":1790.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1791.1097187500002,"end":1794.8728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1795.0584687500002,"end":1795.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1796.3240937500002,"end":1799.3953437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1799.6484687500001,"end":1802.7028437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1803.0740937500002,"end":1807.8497187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1808.2547187500002,"end":1812.0684687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1812.4903437500002,"end":1818.6328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1819.1053437500002,"end":1826.5134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1827.3740937500002,"end":1829.5003437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1830.2259687500002,"end":1830.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1832.1497187500001,"end":1837.2797187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1837.6847187500002,"end":1843.4053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1843.77659375,"end":1845.2109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1845.4472187500003,"end":1847.5565937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1847.8265937500003,"end":1851.4378437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1851.6065937500002,"end":1852.0115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1852.4334687500002,"end":1860.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1861.0397187500002,"end":1862.8622187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1862.9972187500002,"end":1866.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1868.1947187500002,"end":1872.0928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1872.4134687500002,"end":1887.8372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1888.0228437500002,"end":1891.4822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1891.8028437500002,"end":1895.5659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1895.7684687500002,"end":1897.6753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1898.2322187500001,"end":1906.5684687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1906.7540937500003,"end":1909.8422187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1910.31471875,"end":1914.0440937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1914.24659375,"end":1921.5365937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1921.68846875,"end":1926.7847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1927.9828437500003,"end":1935.4584687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1935.8128437500002,"end":1937.8209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1938.2259687500002,"end":1944.5709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1945.0097187500003,"end":1953.6497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1953.7003437500002,"end":1953.7172187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1953.8184687500002,"end":1956.6872187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1956.9065937500002,"end":1961.8172187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1962.2390937500002,"end":1964.2303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1964.4834687500002,"end":1973.9334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1974.3384687500002,"end":1981.6790937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1981.8984687500001,"end":1987.8553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1988.0409687500003,"end":1996.2928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1996.3265937500003,"end":1998.3515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1999.7690937500001,"end":2000.0728437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2000.59596875,"end":2008.0209687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2008.4428437500003,"end":2014.3997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2014.92284375,"end":2017.8084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2018.1459687500003,"end":2024.2378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2025.2165937500001,"end":2027.9165937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2027.9503437500002,"end":2034.0422187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2034.48096875,"end":2038.1934687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2038.8009687500003,"end":2045.0953437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2045.6015937500001,"end":2048.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2048.89221875,"end":2055.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2055.4903437499997,"end":2059.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2059.23659375,"end":2061.8015937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2062.07159375,"end":2063.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2063.70846875,"end":2067.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2068.1803437500002,"end":2072.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2072.63534375,"end":2076.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2076.48284375,"end":2078.5078437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2078.64284375,"end":2080.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2080.9715937500005,"end":2086.0847187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2086.67534375,"end":2089.2234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2089.4765937500006,"end":2094.3028437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2095.45034375,"end":2100.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2100.95159375,"end":2102.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2104.4109687500004,"end":2105.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2105.59221875,"end":2106.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2107.1278437500005,"end":2110.0303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2110.40159375,"end":2114.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2115.16034375,"end":2117.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2118.0965937500005,"end":2121.2859687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2121.50534375,"end":2124.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2126.8209687500002,"end":2131.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2133.25034375,"end":2134.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2136.08534375,"end":2139.7303437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2140.2197187500005,"end":2140.6247187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2141.3503437500003,"end":2145.4003437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2146.27784375,"end":2146.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2147.96534375,"end":2149.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2150.7497187500003,"end":2151.6778437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2153.1628437500003,"end":2154.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2154.90096875,"end":2155.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2156.9090937500005,"end":2157.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2158.4278437500006,"end":2159.2715937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2161.8534687500005,"end":2162.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2162.59596875,"end":2164.1315937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2164.53659375,"end":2165.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2165.48159375,"end":2165.9372187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2167.35471875,"end":2169.0928437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2169.3797187500004,"end":2170.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2172.95721875,"end":2174.5603437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2175.43784375,"end":2176.1465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2176.4840937500003,"end":2176.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2177.78346875,"end":2178.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2179.5553437500002,"end":2181.6647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2182.1540937500004,"end":2183.3522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2184.8709687500004,"end":2186.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2186.64284375,"end":2187.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2187.62159375,"end":2188.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2190.57471875,"end":2191.3847187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2192.5322187500005,"end":2192.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2194.0340937500005,"end":2194.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2195.2490937500006,"end":2195.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2195.7890937500006,"end":2196.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2197.18971875,"end":2199.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2199.95721875,"end":2200.3115937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2202.57284375,"end":2206.3865937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2206.7578437500006,"end":2207.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2208.36096875,"end":2209.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2210.0653437500005,"end":2211.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2213.64284375,"end":2215.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2216.3259687500004,"end":2217.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2219.3465937500005,"end":2222.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2224.0378437500003,"end":2226.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2227.26096875,"end":2228.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2229.20159375,"end":2231.5134687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2232.86346875,"end":2233.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2239.49534375,"end":2241.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2241.50346875,"end":2242.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2243.73096875,"end":2247.6628437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2247.8990937500002,"end":2253.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2254.1934687500006,"end":2257.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2259.08721875,"end":2260.1334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2265.17909375,"end":2267.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2268.62159375,"end":2268.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2269.34721875,"end":2270.3428437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2270.5622187500003,"end":2271.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2271.79409375,"end":2272.3340937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2272.77284375,"end":2273.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2274.4265937500004,"end":2287.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2288.75346875,"end":2298.8953437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2299.46909375,"end":2301.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2301.4772187500002,"end":2303.1815937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2303.43471875,"end":2305.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2305.98284375,"end":2309.4590937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2309.61096875,"end":2317.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2318.08221875,"end":2326.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2326.70534375,"end":2327.8190937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2328.1228437500004,"end":2334.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2335.37909375,"end":2342.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2342.2978437500005,"end":2346.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2347.4109687500004,"end":2352.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2352.55784375,"end":2355.1228437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2355.4772187500002,"end":2358.4303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2358.5147187500006,"end":2359.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2360.1178437500002,"end":2361.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2361.50159375,"end":2361.8897187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2362.2947187500004,"end":2362.5984687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2363.0203437500004,"end":2364.7078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2364.92721875,"end":2366.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2366.8172187500004,"end":2378.0222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2379.20346875,"end":2383.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2383.54034375,"end":2384.5528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2384.9578437500004,"end":2387.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2387.9784687500005,"end":2390.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2390.77971875,"end":2401.7147187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2402.17034375,"end":2405.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2405.96721875,"end":2410.1015937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2410.6922187500004,"end":2411.1309687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2411.63721875,"end":2415.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2416.2440937500005,"end":2416.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2417.23971875,"end":2429.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2429.9803437500004,"end":2430.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2430.79034375,"end":2451.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2451.64784375,"end":2452.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2452.7615937500004,"end":2455.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2455.57971875,"end":2460.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2460.38909375,"end":2468.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2469.36659375,"end":2471.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2472.2353437500005,"end":2475.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2476.2009687500004,"end":2486.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2486.30909375,"end":2489.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2489.54909375,"end":2490.0722187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2490.20721875,"end":2492.6540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2492.85659375,"end":2499.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2500.39971875,"end":2501.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2501.9522187500006,"end":2505.4284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2505.71534375,"end":2508.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2509.30971875,"end":2510.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2511.1490937500002,"end":2515.3847187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2515.46909375,"end":2517.7303437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2518.23659375,"end":2521.6622187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2521.8309687500005,"end":2523.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2524.02471875,"end":2534.7403437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2535.0778437500003,"end":2545.8103437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2546.1647187500002,"end":2547.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2547.9365937500006,"end":2552.4928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2552.9822187500004,"end":2558.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2558.50034375,"end":2561.0147187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2561.50409375,"end":2565.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2565.85784375,"end":2567.0897187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2567.6297187500004,"end":2571.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2571.71346875,"end":2573.3503437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2574.2109687500006,"end":2575.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2575.4090937500005,"end":2578.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2579.1553437500006,"end":2580.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2580.8428437500006,"end":2590.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2591.03534375,"end":2594.5115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2594.7647187500006,"end":2599.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2600.02971875,"end":2600.0465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2600.08034375,"end":2606.0709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2606.47596875,"end":2607.7078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2607.87659375,"end":2608.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2608.95659375,"end":2609.3953437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2610.0028437500005,"end":2612.6522187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2613.10784375,"end":2615.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2616.2128437500005,"end":2616.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2616.90471875,"end":2621.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2621.78159375,"end":2627.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2628.36284375,"end":2631.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2631.78846875,"end":2633.4590937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2633.9822187500004,"end":2635.6865937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2636.2265937500006,"end":2636.9353437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2637.3740937500006,"end":2638.4034687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2638.8759687500005,"end":2640.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2641.13721875,"end":2642.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2643.0947187500005,"end":2645.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2645.3897187500006,"end":2647.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2647.7859687500004,"end":2649.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2650.0303437500006,"end":2651.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2651.3465937500005,"end":2652.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2653.2197187500005,"end":2654.2322187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2654.68784375,"end":2655.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2655.6328437500006,"end":2656.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2657.23596875,"end":2668.9303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2669.99346875,"end":2674.3134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2674.39784375,"end":2677.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2677.6209687500004,"end":2685.5690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2685.97409375,"end":2686.7165937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2687.12159375,"end":2688.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2688.31971875,"end":2691.9647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2692.36971875,"end":2693.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2694.5128437500007,"end":2705.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2706.17346875,"end":2707.9959687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2708.28284375,"end":2715.7247187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2715.87659375,"end":2724.6347187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2724.9890937500004,"end":2731.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2731.84034375,"end":2734.8103437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2735.21534375,"end":2741.3409687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2741.4928437500002,"end":2745.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2745.76221875,"end":2748.4453437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2748.95159375,"end":2752.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2753.03534375,"end":2761.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2761.9284687500003,"end":2765.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2765.9278437500006,"end":2778.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2779.19159375,"end":2782.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2787.2409687500003,"end":2789.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2790.04221875,"end":2790.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2797.6022187500002,"end":2844.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2844.6159687500003,"end":2962.8084687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2963.97284375,"end":3190.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3195.5822187500007,"end":3195.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3195.59909375,"end":3197.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3197.52284375,"end":3200.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3200.59409375,"end":3202.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3203.4122187500006,"end":3205.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3206.43284375,"end":3209.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3210.5165937500005,"end":3211.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3211.7315937500007,"end":3215.3428437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3227.5097187500005,"end":3230.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3238.6472187500003,"end":3251.1853437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3239.1534687500007,"end":3239.2715937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3251.47221875,"end":3324.7097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3325.90784375,"end":3327.6797187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3327.6797187500006,"end":3328.0847187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3328.0847187500003,"end":3335.5603437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3335.5603437500004,"end":3335.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3335.96534375,"end":3340.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3340.35284375,"end":3340.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3340.72409375,"end":3343.1540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3343.1540937500004,"end":3343.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3343.3397187500004,"end":3343.5084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3343.55909375,"end":3343.6603437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3343.84596875,"end":3346.9678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3346.9678437500006,"end":3347.3053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3347.3053437500002,"end":3347.6765937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3348.18284375,"end":3351.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3351.3553437500004,"end":3352.7390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3353.26221875,"end":3355.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3355.9959687500004,"end":3382.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3382.8947187500007,"end":3383.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3383.45159375,"end":3388.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3389.00346875,"end":3420.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3398.82471875,"end":3398.8584687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3398.8584687500006,"end":3400.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3420.4922187500006,"end":3434.9034687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3435.4265937500004,"end":3436.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3436.6247187500003,"end":3436.6922187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3436.6922187500004,"end":3438.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3439.1559687500003,"end":3442.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3442.88534375,"end":3442.9528437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3442.9528437500003,"end":3444.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3444.67409375,"end":3445.9903437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3446.3447187500005,"end":3447.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3447.8972187500003,"end":3448.2853437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3448.4540937500005,"end":3448.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3448.48784375,"end":3448.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3448.60596875,"end":3450.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3451.25534375,"end":3460.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3460.77284375,"end":3460.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3460.9922187500006,"end":3527.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3527.8340937500006,"end":3527.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3528.0703437500006,"end":3564.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3572.4684687500003,"end":3647.0390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3647.0390937500006,"end":3647.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3647.29221875,"end":3647.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3647.8322187500007,"end":3647.8659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3647.8659687500003,"end":3661.4840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3661.4840937500003,"end":3661.6697187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3661.6697187500004,"end":3667.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3661.6865937500006,"end":3661.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3668.0653437500005,"end":3681.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3681.05909375,"end":3681.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3681.36284375,"end":3707.1309687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3690.5428437500004,"end":3690.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3704.49846875,"end":3704.6334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3707.1309687500006,"end":3746.0447187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3746.1628437500003,"end":3755.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3752.0690937500003,"end":3752.3728437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3755.37659375,"end":3755.5284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3755.54534375,"end":3757.1484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3759.7809687500003,"end":3760.6922187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3761.4853437500005,"end":3762.4640937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3762.7509687500005,"end":3763.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3764.05034375,"end":3764.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3774.2090937500006,"end":3776.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3780.01409375,"end":3780.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3783.15284375,"end":3783.4059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3783.4903437500006,"end":3784.1315937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3784.60409375,"end":3785.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3785.5153437500003,"end":3785.5997187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3785.97096875,"end":3827.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3827.8884687500004,"end":3829.1709687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3829.4578437500004,"end":3844.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3844.4259687500007,"end":3850.3659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3850.8722187500007,"end":3854.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3855.58034375,"end":3861.8409687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3861.97596875,"end":3870.4978437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3870.8859687500008,"end":3877.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3878.4122187500006,"end":3879.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3880.04909375,"end":3882.4453437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3882.76596875,"end":3885.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3885.9215937500003,"end":3889.0603437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3889.51596875,"end":3903.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3904.1297187500004,"end":3905.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3905.4628437500005,"end":3908.4159687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3908.7028437500003,"end":3910.2384687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3910.6603437500007,"end":3918.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3918.7265937500006,"end":3924.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3924.3965937500006,"end":3924.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3924.8184687500006,"end":3933.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3933.7959687500006,"end":3938.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3939.29721875,"end":3945.7772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3946.30034375,"end":3947.7009687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3948.1228437500004,"end":3950.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3950.9072187500005,"end":3965.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3965.28471875,"end":3972.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3972.4903437500006,"end":3973.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3973.65471875,"end":3974.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3975.40971875,"end":3976.3884687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3976.67534375,"end":3995.0859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3995.4572187500007,"end":3997.4822187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3998.2922187500008,"end":4001.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4001.3972187500003,"end":4006.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4006.7297187500008,"end":4008.1472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4008.2653437500003,"end":4009.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4009.98659375,"end":4019.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4020.1959687500002,"end":4030.7090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4031.38409375,"end":4033.7634687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4034.28659375,"end":4036.2440937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4036.8347187500003,"end":4039.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4040.3278437500003,"end":4041.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4041.34034375,"end":4042.8253437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4043.21346875,"end":4044.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4044.3947187500007,"end":4046.1328437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4046.52096875,"end":4049.6090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4049.84534375,"end":4051.5665937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4051.70159375,"end":4077.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4077.80721875,"end":4082.7009687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4082.8190937500003,"end":4088.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4088.8603437500005,"end":4090.3115937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4090.5478437500005,"end":4091.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4092.2353437500005,"end":4093.0284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4093.9734687500004,"end":4094.0240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4094.5303437500006,"end":4094.8340937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4095.1884687500005,"end":4097.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4097.5340937500005,"end":4134.929093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4134.43971875,"end":4140.362843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4140.092843750001,"end":4140.126593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4140.126593749999,"end":4140.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4140.58221875,"end":4155.972218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4152.0740937499995,"end":4152.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4156.157843749999,"end":4159.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4160.02221875,"end":4160.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4160.0897187499995,"end":4162.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4163.02596875,"end":4172.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4172.577218750001,"end":4173.404093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4174.4334687499995,"end":4175.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4175.429093750001,"end":4176.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4176.930968750001,"end":4178.466593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4178.87159375,"end":4188.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4188.62534375,"end":4190.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4190.937218749999,"end":4198.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4198.446593750001,"end":4200.690968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4200.91034375,"end":4202.665343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4202.901593750001,"end":4209.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4210.24221875,"end":4210.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4210.64721875,"end":4248.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4249.155968749999,"end":4249.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4249.442843750001,"end":4255.635968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4257.30659375,"end":4274.9072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4275.24471875,"end":4289.335343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4289.50409375,"end":4294.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4294.80284375,"end":4294.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4294.83659375,"end":4296.372218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4295.02221875,"end":4295.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4297.1990937499995,"end":4299.831593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4300.10159375,"end":4303.155968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4303.45971875,"end":4311.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4311.880343750001,"end":4314.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4314.63096875,"end":4316.993468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4317.263468749999,"end":4343.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4345.107218749999,"end":4345.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4345.47846875,"end":4350.034718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4350.186593750001,"end":4364.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4364.5809687500005,"end":4364.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4364.63159375,"end":4365.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4365.6103437500005,"end":4366.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4366.50471875,"end":4367.044718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4368.15846875,"end":4369.812218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4370.048468749999,"end":4370.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4371.34784375,"end":4371.972218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4372.46159375,"end":4374.840968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4384.679093750001,"end":4386.045968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4386.180968750001,"end":4387.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4387.497218750001,"end":4388.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4394.21346875,"end":4398.128468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4399.022843750001,"end":4400.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4400.659718749999,"end":4403.849093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4404.06846875,"end":4405.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4404.608468750001,"end":4404.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4405.80659375,"end":4406.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4406.751593749999,"end":4407.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4408.354718750001,"end":4409.232218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4410.63284375,"end":4413.079718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4413.14721875,"end":4414.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4415.2059687500005,"end":4422.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4422.782843749999,"end":4424.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4424.571593750001,"end":4425.550343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4425.887843750001,"end":4426.866593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4427.372843749999,"end":4431.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4432.75596875,"end":4434.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4435.08471875,"end":4445.715968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4446.52596875,"end":4449.934718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4450.42409375,"end":4452.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4452.263468749999,"end":4454.001593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4454.35596875,"end":4457.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4457.46096875,"end":4459.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4459.907843749999,"end":4461.3084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4461.52784375,"end":4462.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4462.911593750001,"end":4464.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4464.80159375,"end":4467.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4467.7040937500005,"end":4469.999093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4470.218468749999,"end":4471.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4471.686593750001,"end":4475.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4475.618468750001,"end":4486.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4487.31284375,"end":4505.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4506.24659375,"end":4510.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4511.49471875,"end":4513.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4513.78971875,"end":4518.075968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4518.63284375,"end":4519.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4520.573468750001,"end":4522.767218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4523.425343749999,"end":4525.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4525.61909375,"end":4528.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4528.92659375,"end":4530.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4530.61409375,"end":4532.099093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4532.858468750001,"end":4535.001593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4535.72721875,"end":4536.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4537.75221875,"end":4538.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4539.034718749999,"end":4539.979718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4540.401593750001,"end":4541.279093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4542.038468750001,"end":4544.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4545.37971875,"end":4553.665343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4553.952218750001,"end":4559.234093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4560.651593750001,"end":4561.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4562.06909375,"end":4563.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4563.67221875,"end":4565.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4566.05159375,"end":4566.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4567.249718749999,"end":4567.6209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4568.02596875,"end":4570.540343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4570.79346875,"end":4571.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4572.76784375,"end":4573.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4574.30346875,"end":4576.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4577.340968750001,"end":4579.450343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4579.635968750001,"end":4581.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4582.04909375,"end":4582.673468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4583.60159375,"end":4585.491593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4585.778468750001,"end":4587.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4587.415343750001,"end":4592.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4592.69721875,"end":4593.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4594.14846875,"end":4594.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4595.329718749999,"end":4595.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4596.6122187500005,"end":4598.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4599.24471875,"end":4600.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4601.624093750001,"end":4602.467843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4604.104718750001,"end":4604.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4605.8934687500005,"end":4606.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4606.65284375,"end":4608.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4608.272843750001,"end":4610.010968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4610.50034375,"end":4614.077843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4614.314093749999,"end":4626.042218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4626.61596875,"end":4629.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4630.09221875,"end":4636.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4636.36971875,"end":4637.567843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4638.25971875,"end":4639.997843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4640.436593750001,"end":4643.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4644.4022187499995,"end":4650.780968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4651.2197187500005,"end":4653.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4654.00409375,"end":4660.872218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4661.429093750001,"end":4662.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4662.86346875,"end":4669.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4669.630343750001,"end":4673.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4673.86596875,"end":4684.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4684.69971875,"end":4689.407843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4690.13346875,"end":4694.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4694.993468750001,"end":4697.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4697.794718749999,"end":4706.805968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4707.970343749999,"end":4713.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4713.75846875,"end":4720.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4720.913468750001,"end":4724.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4725.14909375,"end":4728.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4728.557843750001,"end":4731.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4732.08471875,"end":4734.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4735.122218750001,"end":4736.286593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4737.180968750001,"end":4738.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4738.75034375,"end":4741.450343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4741.75409375,"end":4744.015343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4744.639718750001,"end":4745.145968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4745.55096875,"end":4748.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4748.858468750001,"end":4752.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4752.452843749999,"end":4753.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4753.5497187500005,"end":4754.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4755.456593750001,"end":4757.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4758.07221875,"end":4770.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4770.10409375,"end":4773.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4774.913468750001,"end":4777.444718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4777.967843750001,"end":4779.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4779.638468749999,"end":4780.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4781.612843750001,"end":4782.642218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4783.36784375,"end":4784.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4785.44346875,"end":4786.9959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4787.384093750001,"end":4788.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4789.79721875,"end":4790.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4791.19784375,"end":4801.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4802.11596875,"end":4805.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4806.09846875,"end":4806.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4807.38096875,"end":4809.270968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4809.929093750001,"end":4810.485968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4810.772843750001,"end":4811.937218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4811.987843750001,"end":4812.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4813.18596875,"end":4818.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4818.737843750001,"end":4820.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4820.577218750001,"end":4822.484093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4822.97346875,"end":4829.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4829.40284375,"end":4833.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4833.4022187499995,"end":4839.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4839.645968750001,"end":4843.341593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4843.66221875,"end":4844.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4845.5184687500005,"end":4847.340968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4847.93159375,"end":4850.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4851.05346875,"end":4852.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4852.403468750001,"end":4860.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4861.2459687499995,"end":4865.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4865.515343749999,"end":4885.529093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4886.08596875,"end":4892.4647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4893.39284375,"end":4903.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4900.61534375,"end":4900.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4900.7840937500005,"end":4900.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4900.868468750001,"end":4901.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4904.31096875,"end":4908.124718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4908.124718749999,"end":4908.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4908.20909375,"end":4909.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4910.08221875,"end":4912.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4912.5965937500005,"end":4913.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4913.710343750001,"end":4921.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4921.675343750001,"end":4925.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4925.35409375,"end":4927.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4927.42971875,"end":4932.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4932.779093749999,"end":4945.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4945.857218749999,"end":4947.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4947.1903437500005,"end":4954.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4954.497218750001,"end":4969.448468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4969.684718750001,"end":4982.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4983.032843749999,"end":4984.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4984.80471875,"end":4988.095343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4988.247218750001,"end":4989.732218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4989.85034375,"end":4991.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4991.622218750001,"end":4992.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4994.50784375,"end":4995.790343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4996.499093750001,"end":4998.7772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5014.50471875,"end":5017.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5022.43596875,"end":5023.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5023.70159375,"end":5024.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5025.06846875,"end":5026.350968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5031.885968750001,"end":5033.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5033.7928437499995,"end":5068.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5068.75784375,"end":5072.099093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5072.50409375,"end":5082.983468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5083.169093750001,"end":5100.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5100.98909375,"end":5116.530968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5117.104718750001,"end":5118.032843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5118.28596875,"end":5120.294093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5120.31096875,"end":5120.327843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5120.41221875,"end":5123.466593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5123.92221875,"end":5124.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5125.170968750001,"end":5128.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5128.47846875,"end":5134.350968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5134.99221875,"end":5143.952843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5144.02034375,"end":5144.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5144.08784375,"end":5151.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5151.9853437500005,"end":5171.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5172.11721875,"end":5202.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5177.888468749999,"end":5178.225968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5203.18409375,"end":5229.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5226.6572187500005,"end":5227.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5228.614718750001,"end":5244.122843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5244.42659375,"end":5254.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5244.696593750001,"end":5244.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5254.821593750001,"end":5267.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5267.8153437500005,"end":5268.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5268.794093750001,"end":5273.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5269.030343750001,"end":5271.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5271.71346875,"end":5292.8240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5293.36409375,"end":5293.397843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5293.397843750001,"end":5309.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5310.222218750001,"end":5326.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5323.65471875,"end":5341.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5327.16471875,"end":5327.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5340.47909375,"end":5340.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5341.52534375,"end":5356.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5354.468468749999,"end":5407.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5364.05346875,"end":5364.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5364.9647187499995,"end":5365.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5407.27034375,"end":5413.767218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5414.12159375,"end":5428.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5415.319718750001,"end":5415.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5415.33659375,"end":5415.5897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5426.03534375,"end":5426.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5427.216593749999,"end":5442.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5442.25221875,"end":5444.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5443.38284375,"end":5445.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5444.6990937499995,"end":5454.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5446.2684687500005,"end":5446.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5448.462218750001,"end":5449.204718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5453.575343750001,"end":5453.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5455.3134687500005,"end":5456.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5460.52784375,"end":5461.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5461.4559687500005,"end":5487.645968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5476.32284375,"end":5476.356593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5476.356593750001,"end":5476.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5476.60971875,"end":5476.626593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5487.94971875,"end":5488.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5488.60784375,"end":5489.670968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5490.48096875,"end":5517.936593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5518.24034375,"end":5518.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5518.42596875,"end":5518.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5518.47659375,"end":5528.010968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5524.163468750001,"end":5524.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5528.010968750001,"end":5562.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5532.71909375,"end":5533.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5562.554093750001,"end":5581.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5581.13346875,"end":5597.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5588.474093750001,"end":5593.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5594.717843750001,"end":5596.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5597.36721875,"end":5598.2615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5597.55284375,"end":5664.360968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5664.833468750001,"end":5664.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5664.85034375,"end":5672.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5673.135968750001,"end":5678.147843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5678.35034375,"end":5684.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5684.96534375,"end":5684.982218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5685.11721875,"end":5708.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5709.2822187500005,"end":5710.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5710.51409375,"end":5711.897843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5711.96534375,"end":5712.640343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5712.184718750001,"end":5712.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5712.96096875,"end":5715.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5716.18409375,"end":5722.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5722.545968750001,"end":5725.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5726.88284375,"end":5747.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5747.77409375,"end":5748.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5748.8709687499995,"end":5749.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5749.2928437499995,"end":5749.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5749.495343750001,"end":5750.946593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5749.731593750001,"end":5749.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5750.946593750001,"end":5764.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5755.94159375,"end":5756.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5756.059718750001,"end":5756.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5756.07659375,"end":5756.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5764.61534375,"end":5770.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5771.07846875,"end":5794.720343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5794.905968749999,"end":5799.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5800.170968750001,"end":5818.530968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5821.38284375,"end":5826.732218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5835.30471875,"end":5846.762843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5842.729718750001,"end":5843.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5844.265343749999,"end":5845.294718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5846.02034375,"end":5846.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5847.48846875,"end":5953.952843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5954.07096875,"end":5979.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5980.19346875,"end":6024.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5989.626593750001,"end":5989.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6025.13159375,"end":6056.468468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6056.77221875,"end":6074.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6074.811593750001,"end":6096.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6096.782843750001,"end":6103.532843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6104.325968749999,"end":6114.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6106.2665937500005,"end":6106.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6115.0584687499995,"end":6131.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6118.720343750001,"end":6119.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6132.321593750001,"end":6145.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6145.7372187500005,"end":6178.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6178.120343750001,"end":6189.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6189.62909375,"end":6219.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6219.936593750001,"end":6273.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6273.71721875,"end":6290.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6291.739718750001,"end":6295.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6295.401593750001,"end":6306.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6306.8934687500005,"end":6307.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6307.720343750001,"end":6311.010968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6311.68596875,"end":6317.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6318.2840937500005,"end":6321.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6321.70971875,"end":6329.235968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6329.708468750001,"end":6340.677218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6340.93034375,"end":6343.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6343.545968750001,"end":6343.917218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6344.49096875,"end":6346.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6347.22471875,"end":6350.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6350.515343749999,"end":6351.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6352.067843750001,"end":6375.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6375.3553437499995,"end":6381.278468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6381.86909375,"end":6384.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6384.265343749999,"end":6393.698468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6387.94409375,"end":6390.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6393.934718750001,"end":6395.149718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6395.30159375,"end":6396.415343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6396.9384687500005,"end":6399.317843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6399.77346875,"end":6403.772843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6404.21159375,"end":6404.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6405.00471875,"end":6409.5272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6409.9490937499995,"end":6413.999093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6414.43784375,"end":6416.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6417.1209687499995,"end":6419.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6419.905343750001,"end":6424.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6424.7822187500005,"end":6427.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6428.12346875,"end":6432.325343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6432.86534375,"end":6436.814093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6437.32034375,"end":6439.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6440.25659375,"end":6452.288468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6452.4403437500005,"end":6453.790343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6454.397843750001,"end":6455.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6456.05159375,"end":6456.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6456.62534375,"end":6459.983468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6460.067843750001,"end":6460.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6460.405343750001,"end":6465.872843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6466.19346875,"end":6466.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6466.733468750001,"end":6467.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6467.948468750001,"end":6468.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6469.214093750001,"end":6471.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6471.20534375,"end":6473.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6473.5340937500005,"end":6475.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6476.08221875,"end":6477.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6478.09034375,"end":6479.524718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6479.91284375,"end":6480.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6481.41471875,"end":6483.085343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6483.43971875,"end":6484.249718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6484.485968750001,"end":6485.329718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6485.667218750001,"end":6486.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6486.81471875,"end":6489.042218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6489.700343750001,"end":6503.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6498.087218750001,"end":6498.1209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6498.1209687499995,"end":6498.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6503.520968750001,"end":6513.325343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6509.68034375,"end":6516.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6517.66221875,"end":6523.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6523.905968749999,"end":6538.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6538.65471875,"end":6572.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6548.22284375,"end":6548.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6572.59034375,"end":6574.260968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6574.59846875,"end":6599.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6599.77596875,"end":6613.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6615.80721875,"end":6615.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6615.975968750001,"end":6616.583468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6617.055968750001,"end":6620.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6629.374718749999,"end":6630.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6630.842843750001,"end":6631.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6632.378468750001,"end":6633.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6637.98096875,"end":6639.314093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6639.651593750001,"end":6661.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6654.67034375,"end":6654.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6662.044718749999,"end":6674.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6674.329718750001,"end":6681.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6681.180968750001,"end":6681.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6681.99096875,"end":6703.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6689.68596875,"end":6690.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6690.00659375,"end":6690.0740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6694.46159375,"end":6694.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6694.47846875,"end":6694.950968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6698.69721875,"end":6698.714093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6698.764718750001,"end":6699.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6701.86971875,"end":6702.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6703.067843750001,"end":6708.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6708.889718750001,"end":6723.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6722.237843750001,"end":6739.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6723.52034375,"end":6723.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6726.11909375,"end":6726.372218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6739.399718750001,"end":6770.702843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6743.7197187500005,"end":6744.225968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6751.14471875,"end":6751.634093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6767.26034375,"end":6767.715968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6770.466593749999,"end":6774.415343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6773.55471875,"end":6780.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6776.35596875,"end":6776.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6778.026593750001,"end":6790.260968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6783.747218750001,"end":6784.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6790.395968750001,"end":6800.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6800.36909375,"end":6842.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6805.7353437500005,"end":6805.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6817.109093749999,"end":6817.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6820.78784375,"end":6820.821593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6820.821593750001,"end":6821.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6827.234093749999,"end":6828.263468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6842.151593750001,"end":6846.505343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6846.404093749999,"end":6846.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6846.62346875,"end":6846.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6846.96096875,"end":6859.296593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6854.571593750001,"end":6855.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6858.95909375,"end":6893.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6876.4247187500005,"end":6876.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6890.73471875,"end":6891.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6892.0340937500005,"end":6903.593468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6893.434718750001,"end":6894.042218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6894.9872187500005,"end":6895.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6899.12159375,"end":6899.3240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6899.3240937499995,"end":6899.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6899.3915937500005,"end":6899.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6899.45909375,"end":6899.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6899.96534375,"end":6900.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6900.52221875,"end":6900.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6900.53909375,"end":6900.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6909.499718749999,"end":6918.139718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6918.29159375,"end":6942.085343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6943.452218750001,"end":6952.817843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6952.817843750001,"end":6961.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6961.23846875,"end":6965.710343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6966.030968750001,"end":6976.1053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6973.74284375,"end":6973.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6973.79346875,"end":6974.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6976.1053437499995,"end":6976.442843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6976.442843750001,"end":6988.069718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6988.356593750001,"end":6988.491593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6988.491593750001,"end":6988.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6988.55909375,"end":6988.592843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6988.60971875,"end":6988.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6988.71096875,"end":6990.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6990.651593750001,"end":6994.448468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6994.5497187500005,"end":7001.249093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7001.7215937500005,"end":7004.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7004.472218750001,"end":7007.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7007.86409375,"end":7010.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7010.294093750001,"end":7013.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7014.15846875,"end":7015.727843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7016.03159375,"end":7017.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7017.5165937500005,"end":7017.887843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7017.887843750001,"end":7017.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7017.90471875,"end":7017.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7017.921593750001,"end":7021.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7018.073468750001,"end":7018.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7022.54534375,"end":7027.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7027.47284375,"end":7051.6209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7048.904093749999,"end":7049.528468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7050.7772187499995,"end":7052.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7052.49846875,"end":7052.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7052.54909375,"end":7054.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7052.751593750001,"end":7071.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7056.24471875,"end":7056.548468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7062.134093750001,"end":7062.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7063.09596875,"end":7063.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7070.706593750001,"end":7070.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7071.34784375,"end":7091.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7091.86784375,"end":7092.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7092.9647187499995,"end":7101.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7100.77784375,"end":7103.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7101.62159375,"end":7101.638468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7101.638468749999,"end":7101.689093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7101.689093750001,"end":7101.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7101.7059687500005,"end":7101.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7101.75659375,"end":7101.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7102.56659375,"end":7102.634093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7102.634093750001,"end":7125.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7104.507218750001,"end":7105.013468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7113.687218750001,"end":7113.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7113.974093750001,"end":7114.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7125.314093750001,"end":7128.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7128.554093750001,"end":7133.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7132.36784375,"end":7133.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7133.1103437500005,"end":7133.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7133.54909375,"end":7144.399718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7142.897843750001,"end":7142.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7144.51784375,"end":7184.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7164.548468750001,"end":7166.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7166.03346875,"end":7166.708468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7168.93596875,"end":7169.661593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7184.747843749999,"end":7185.135968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7185.034718750001,"end":7207.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7191.10971875,"end":7191.497843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7191.497843749999,"end":7191.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7191.53159375,"end":7191.548468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7207.64721875,"end":7207.866593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7207.815968750001,"end":7223.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7223.40846875,"end":7227.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7227.222218750001,"end":7227.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7229.939093750001,"end":7230.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7231.45784375,"end":7234.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7241.58284375,"end":7244.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7243.97909375,"end":7244.4178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7244.77221875,"end":7244.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7244.78909375,"end":7244.805968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7249.46346875,"end":7250.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7251.38721875,"end":7267.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7268.329718750001,"end":7370.524718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7302.99096875,"end":7303.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7303.9697187500005,"end":7304.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7304.44221875,"end":7304.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7340.622218750001,"end":7340.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7370.8622187500005,"end":7401.507218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7402.2665937500005,"end":7419.4959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7419.81659375,"end":7442.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7441.534718750001,"end":7441.585343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7441.83846875,"end":7584.415343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7584.837218750001,"end":7593.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7592.68409375,"end":7594.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7593.81471875,"end":7599.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7599.75471875,"end":7630.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7631.20971875,"end":7768.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7707.43409375,"end":7707.872843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7717.170968750001,"end":7718.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7765.80471875,"end":7765.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7765.83846875,"end":7766.564093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7768.79159375,"end":7801.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7768.94346875,"end":7769.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7802.052218750001,"end":7822.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7822.70721875,"end":7822.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7823.07846875,"end":7834.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7830.317843750001,"end":7830.604718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7834.75596875,"end":7864.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7840.392218750001,"end":7840.780343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7849.487843750001,"end":7849.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7849.50471875,"end":7849.589093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7849.589093750001,"end":7849.724093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7857.182843750001,"end":7857.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7857.72284375,"end":7857.840968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7857.840968750001,"end":7858.110968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7858.88721875,"end":7859.714093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7863.359093750001,"end":7891.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7891.47284375,"end":7892.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7892.97471875,"end":7892.991593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7894.79721875,"end":7895.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7896.839093750001,"end":7899.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7910.32221875,"end":7914.220343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7915.13159375,"end":7917.173468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7924.88534375,"end":7925.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7926.505343750001,"end":7936.444718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7937.59221875,"end":7938.419093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7938.925343750001,"end":7942.823468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7944.34221875,"end":7945.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7946.18159375,"end":7952.189093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7952.69534375,"end":7957.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7958.21346875,"end":7961.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7961.942843750001,"end":7963.309718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7963.83284375,"end":7966.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7966.920968750001,"end":7971.139718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7971.62909375,"end":7995.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7995.929093750001,"end":7997.194718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7998.10596875,"end":7998.882218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7998.882218750001,"end":8011.116593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8011.36971875,"end":8019.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8019.554093750001,"end":8025.966593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8026.118468750001,"end":8061.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8061.91034375,"end":8063.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8063.96909375,"end":8063.985968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8064.559718750001,"end":8068.120343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8068.47471875,"end":8068.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8068.50846875,"end":8072.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8068.55909375,"end":8069.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8070.71909375,"end":8090.715968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8090.057843750001,"end":8097.837218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8091.8465937500005,"end":8093.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8093.280968750001,"end":8093.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8093.39909375,"end":8093.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8093.50034375,"end":8094.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8094.02346875,"end":8094.934718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8094.934718750001,"end":8094.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8094.968468750001,"end":8096.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8096.58846875,"end":8096.6053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8098.83284375,"end":8116.821593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8115.30284375,"end":8122.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8122.89659375,"end":8125.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8125.680968750001,"end":8125.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8125.83284375,"end":8136.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8137.69596875,"end":8139.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8139.99096875,"end":8154.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8140.0584687499995,"end":8140.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8154.53721875,"end":8175.698468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8176.89659375,"end":8187.882218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8176.93034375,"end":8177.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8177.97659375,"end":8179.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8183.5790937500005,"end":8184.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8187.67971875,"end":8197.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8197.956593750001,"end":8203.305968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8203.609718750002,"end":8210.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8211.49034375,"end":8223.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8224.72034375,"end":8224.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8224.73721875,"end":8259.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8255.31471875,"end":8256.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8259.31409375,"end":8259.870968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8260.360343750002,"end":8263.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8263.988468750002,"end":8270.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8264.612843750001,"end":8266.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8270.08034375,"end":8270.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8270.13096875,"end":8270.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8270.82284375,"end":8291.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8291.950343750003,"end":8297.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8297.890343750001,"end":8299.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8299.898468750001,"end":8304.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8305.011593750001,"end":8305.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8305.062218750001,"end":8306.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8306.73284375,"end":8313.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8313.195968750002,"end":8317.212218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8317.53284375,"end":8324.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8325.17721875,"end":8330.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8330.762843750003,"end":8331.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8331.99471875,"end":8336.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8337.192218750002,"end":8342.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8343.16596875,"end":8344.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8344.60034375,"end":8346.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8346.304718750001,"end":8347.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8347.570343750001,"end":8347.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8347.722218750001,"end":8347.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8347.90784375,"end":8362.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8363.98971875,"end":8386.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8386.99034375,"end":8388.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8388.52596875,"end":8396.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8397.63846875,"end":8419.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8419.440968750001,"end":8421.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8421.027218750001,"end":8440.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8428.367843750002,"end":8428.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8428.40159375,"end":8432.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8441.344718750002,"end":8445.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8446.22159375,"end":8446.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8446.238468750002,"end":8446.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8446.660343750002,"end":8446.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8446.710968750001,"end":8446.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8446.94721875,"end":8446.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8446.96409375,"end":8447.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8447.149718750003,"end":8447.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8447.16659375,"end":8456.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8452.887218750002,"end":8453.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8456.32971875,"end":8465.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8465.813468750002,"end":8466.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8466.555968750003,"end":8495.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8496.62721875,"end":8504.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8503.86659375,"end":8504.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8504.153468750003,"end":8542.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8542.999718750001,"end":8543.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8543.016593750002,"end":8543.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8543.050343750001,"end":8543.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8543.370968750001,"end":8544.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8543.387843750003,"end":8544.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8544.07971875,"end":8544.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8544.687218750001,"end":8544.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8544.88971875,"end":8545.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8544.94034375,"end":8597.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8545.159718750001,"end":8545.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8545.699718750002,"end":8545.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8545.969718750002,"end":8546.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8546.020343750002,"end":8546.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8598.36659375,"end":8599.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8600.03721875,"end":8608.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8609.284718750001,"end":8623.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8623.695968750002,"end":8623.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8625.754718750002,"end":8626.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8641.27971875,"end":8643.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8650.34159375,"end":8654.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8654.644718750002,"end":8656.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8662.17096875,"end":8687.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8687.98971875,"end":8688.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8688.074093750001,"end":8688.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8688.10784375,"end":8688.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8688.27659375,"end":8688.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8688.37784375,"end":8688.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8688.42846875,"end":8688.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8689.05284375,"end":8691.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8691.22971875,"end":8692.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8692.562843750002,"end":8693.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8692.59659375,"end":8694.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8694.520343750002,"end":8714.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8716.390343750001,"end":8718.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8717.11596875,"end":8723.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8724.726593750001,"end":8732.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8733.55221875,"end":8744.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8744.33534375,"end":8761.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8762.324093750001,"end":8766.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8767.04909375,"end":8836.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8770.49159375,"end":8771.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8837.56971875,"end":8838.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8839.18971875,"end":8843.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8843.340968750003,"end":8860.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8860.53659375,"end":8874.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8874.52596875,"end":9029.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9030.704093750002,"end":9064.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9064.926593750002,"end":9099.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9100.70159375,"end":9146.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9145.909718750001,"end":9173.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9169.703468750002,"end":9207.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9207.73971875,"end":9285.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9285.668468750002,"end":9293.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9293.76846875,"end":9301.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9302.070968750002,"end":9305.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9305.14221875,"end":9314.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9314.204093750002,"end":9316.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9316.75221875,"end":9322.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9322.30409375,"end":9333.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9333.610343750002,"end":9383.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9363.22596875,"end":9363.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9383.965343750002,"end":9384.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9385.180343750002,"end":9389.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9389.78721875,"end":9389.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9389.95596875,"end":9390.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9390.00659375,"end":9411.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9408.51846875,"end":9408.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9409.98659375,"end":9486.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9486.852218750002,"end":9489.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9489.14721875,"end":9491.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9490.227218750002,"end":9490.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9491.965343750002,"end":9495.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9493.011593750001,"end":9494.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9498.68159375,"end":9500.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9503.59221875,"end":9506.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9515.77596875,"end":9518.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9519.589718750001,"end":9520.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9525.512843750003,"end":9525.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9525.546593750001,"end":9526.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9526.05284375,"end":9558.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9558.97596875,"end":9588.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9588.777218750001,"end":9592.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9592.574093750001,"end":9593.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9593.687843750002,"end":9594.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9595.56096875,"end":9596.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9597.40034375,"end":9599.712218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9600.50534375,"end":9603.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9603.74534375,"end":9604.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9604.69034375,"end":9615.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9608.183468750001,"end":9608.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9611.49096875,"end":9611.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9611.71034375,"end":9612.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9612.790343750003,"end":9612.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9612.95909375,"end":9612.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9613.33034375,"end":9619.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9620.14784375,"end":9620.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9620.56971875,"end":9627.960968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9627.960968750001,"end":9630.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9629.51346875,"end":9636.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9637.242218750001,"end":9639.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9638.59221875,"end":9638.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9639.250343750002,"end":9643.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9642.895343750002,"end":9647.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9645.274718750003,"end":9645.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9646.86096875,"end":9648.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9648.02534375,"end":9655.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9649.39221875,"end":9650.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9651.754718750002,"end":9651.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9654.72471875,"end":9655.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9655.46721875,"end":9657.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9657.47534375,"end":9662.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9662.06534375,"end":9674.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9674.60346875,"end":9711.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9712.30221875,"end":9715.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9715.84596875,"end":9718.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9715.980968750002,"end":9721.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9720.97596875,"end":9734.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9734.72909375,"end":9738.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9737.665343750003,"end":9750.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9752.110343750002,"end":9766.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9754.77659375,"end":9759.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9761.762843750003,"end":9762.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9765.711593750002,"end":9772.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9772.512218750002,"end":9773.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9772.90034375,"end":9792.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9780.08909375,"end":9780.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9780.96659375,"end":9781.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9781.01721875,"end":9781.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9781.152218750001,"end":9781.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9781.30409375,"end":9781.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9781.624718750001,"end":9781.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9784.577843750001,"end":9789.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9790.534718750001,"end":9790.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9791.51346875,"end":9801.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9802.262843750003,"end":9815.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9815.442218750002,"end":9820.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9819.340343750002,"end":9836.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9838.25721875,"end":9847.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9848.027843750002,"end":9855.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9854.27159375,"end":9863.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9864.008468750002,"end":9865.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9865.72971875,"end":9883.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9871.230968750002,"end":9874.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9874.504718750002,"end":9875.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9877.812218750001,"end":9877.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9877.862843750001,"end":9878.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9879.499718750001,"end":9880.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9881.237843750001,"end":9881.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9882.80721875,"end":9903.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9905.04846875,"end":9905.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9905.41971875,"end":9919.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9908.33909375,"end":9909.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9909.621593750002,"end":9909.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9909.73971875,"end":9910.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9910.49909375,"end":9911.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9912.81096875,"end":9913.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9913.739093750002,"end":9913.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9914.937218750001,"end":9915.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9915.477218750002,"end":9915.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9916.03409375,"end":9916.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9916.270343750002,"end":9922.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9922.159718750001,"end":9927.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9929.972843750002,"end":9935.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9935.035343750002,"end":9935.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9935.676593750002,"end":9942.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9936.351593750001,"end":9941.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9943.472843750002,"end":9955.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9945.14346875,"end":9945.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9955.74096875,"end":9958.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9959.183468750001,"end":9976.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9963.300968750002,"end":9967.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9968.19471875,"end":9969.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9971.29971875,"end":9972.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9974.10096875,"end":9975.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9976.649093750002,"end":9983.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9984.47909375,"end":9986.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9987.044093750003,"end":9989.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9990.250343750002,"end":9997.118468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9997.28721875,"end":10000.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10000.375343750002,"end":10005.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10005.57284375,"end":10005.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10005.87659375,"end":10010.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10006.129718750002,"end":10008.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10009.30221875,"end":10028.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10010.129093750002,"end":10013.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10017.098468750002,"end":10018.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10029.214718750001,"end":10029.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10029.484718750002,"end":10032.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10029.51846875,"end":10029.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10032.707843750002,"end":10037.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10035.67784375,"end":10042.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10038.614093750002,"end":10040.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10041.195968750002,"end":10041.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10042.292843750001,"end":10050.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10044.65534375,"end":10044.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10050.831593750001,"end":10052.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10051.050968750002,"end":10060.922843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10053.59909375,"end":10054.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10058.121593750002,"end":10082.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10083.36659375,"end":10092.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10093.761593750001,"end":10099.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10099.97159375,"end":10105.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10105.86096875,"end":10124.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10108.03784375,"end":10109.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10124.457218750002,"end":10128.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10129.266593750002,"end":10137.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10136.539718750002,"end":10155.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10138.34534375,"end":10140.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10153.06034375,"end":10158.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10156.03034375,"end":10156.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10156.45221875,"end":10156.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10157.02596875,"end":10170.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10158.59534375,"end":10158.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10170.964718750001,"end":10187.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10184.34659375,"end":10185.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10185.409718750001,"end":10186.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10187.02971875,"end":10187.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10187.164718750002,"end":10187.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10187.24909375,"end":10189.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10189.18971875,"end":10190.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10190.94471875,"end":10250.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10194.437843750002,"end":10194.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10199.73659375,"end":10200.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10201.47471875,"end":10204.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10249.956593750001,"end":10253.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10253.179718750001,"end":10253.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10253.196593750003,"end":10254.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10253.31471875,"end":10253.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10253.348468750002,"end":10253.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10253.399093750002,"end":10255.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10255.086593750002,"end":10255.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10255.10346875,"end":10255.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10257.48284375,"end":10258.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10259.79471875,"end":10263.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10276.230968750002,"end":10277.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10277.817218750002,"end":10280.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10280.972843750002,"end":10282.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10282.52534375,"end":10282.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10282.96409375,"end":10284.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10290.051593750002,"end":10293.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10293.54471875,"end":10295.805968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10296.09284375,"end":10297.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10298.590343750002,"end":10302.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10303.079093750002,"end":10309.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10307.73659375,"end":10307.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10307.83784375,"end":10307.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10307.871593750002,"end":10307.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10308.00659375,"end":10308.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10309.69409375,"end":10310.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10311.246593750002,"end":10312.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10313.406593750002,"end":10315.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10315.53284375,"end":10316.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10316.832218750002,"end":10318.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10320.81471875,"end":10320.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10320.831593750001,"end":10325.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10325.72534375,"end":10327.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10328.15534375,"end":10329.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10329.31971875,"end":10329.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10329.45471875,"end":10329.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10329.47159375,"end":10329.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10329.57284375,"end":10329.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10329.589718750001,"end":10330.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10330.04534375,"end":10330.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10330.83846875,"end":10333.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10335.023468750001,"end":10341.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10336.99784375,"end":10337.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10338.027218750001,"end":10344.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10345.097843750002,"end":10347.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10346.211593750002,"end":10352.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10352.23596875,"end":10355.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10355.50971875,"end":10357.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10359.137843750003,"end":10361.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10359.40784375,"end":10362.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10361.770343750002,"end":10374.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10363.187843750002,"end":10366.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10371.743468750003,"end":10371.945968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10371.945968750002,"end":10372.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10372.01346875,"end":10372.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10372.03034375,"end":10373.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10374.797843750002,"end":10374.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10374.81471875,"end":10376.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10376.40096875,"end":10380.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10381.125968750002,"end":10382.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10382.56034375,"end":10382.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10382.965343750002,"end":10385.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10385.88471875,"end":10389.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10390.390343750001,"end":10395.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10392.567218750002,"end":10394.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10394.035343750002,"end":10400.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10395.030968750001,"end":10395.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10396.465343750002,"end":10409.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10402.995968750001,"end":10404.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10404.97034375,"end":10405.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10406.20221875,"end":10406.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10408.34534375,"end":10409.290343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10409.543468750002,"end":10409.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10409.965343750002,"end":10410.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10410.04971875,"end":10410.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10410.15096875,"end":10411.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10411.399718750003,"end":10411.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10411.73721875,"end":10411.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10411.754093750002,"end":10414.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10414.605968750002,"end":10415.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10416.394718750002,"end":10417.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10418.082218750002,"end":10419.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10418.132843750001,"end":10419.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10420.02284375,"end":10421.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10421.777843750002,"end":10423.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10424.02221875,"end":10425.743468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10426.48596875,"end":10426.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10427.38034375,"end":10428.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10429.590968750003,"end":10432.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10433.016593750002,"end":10434.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10435.21034375,"end":10437.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10437.977843750003,"end":10438.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10438.804718750001,"end":10440.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10441.133468750002,"end":10443.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10443.968468750001,"end":10446.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10447.12409375,"end":10447.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10448.457218750002,"end":10449.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10450.00971875,"end":10451.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10452.456593750001,"end":10453.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10453.519718750002,"end":10455.899093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10456.320968750002,"end":10458.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10458.582218750002,"end":10459.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10459.898468750001,"end":10462.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10462.952843750001,"end":10473.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10475.44034375,"end":10475.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10476.31784375,"end":10477.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10477.684718750003,"end":10481.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10482.207218750002,"end":10487.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10488.41721875,"end":10489.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10491.134093750003,"end":10491.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10492.31534375,"end":10493.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10494.087218750003,"end":10496.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10497.023468750001,"end":10499.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10500.63471875,"end":10503.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10504.718468750001,"end":10511.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10513.08846875,"end":10514.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10515.45096875,"end":10517.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10518.52221875,"end":10519.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10520.00721875,"end":10522.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10523.230343750001,"end":10525.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10526.250968750002,"end":10528.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10528.292843750001,"end":10529.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10529.84534375,"end":10530.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10531.33034375,"end":10531.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10532.309093750002,"end":10532.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10533.726593750001,"end":10534.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10534.43534375,"end":10535.009093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10535.39721875,"end":10535.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10536.375968750002,"end":10537.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10538.77221875,"end":10540.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10541.45534375,"end":10542.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10543.31159375,"end":10544.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10545.03284375,"end":10545.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10547.699093750001,"end":10549.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10550.449718750002,"end":10552.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10552.27221875,"end":10552.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10554.58409375,"end":10557.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10559.055968750003,"end":10559.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10559.258468750002,"end":10568.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10567.594718750002,"end":10570.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10570.78409375,"end":10571.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10573.21409375,"end":10573.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10575.137843750003,"end":10576.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10576.47096875,"end":10578.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10578.614093750002,"end":10579.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10579.91346875,"end":10580.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10581.297218750002,"end":10582.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10583.457218750002,"end":10583.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10585.49909375,"end":10585.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10586.055968750003,"end":10586.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10586.17409375,"end":10586.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10586.190968750001,"end":10586.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10586.309093750002,"end":10586.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10586.359718750002,"end":10588.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10588.38471875,"end":10588.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10588.82346875,"end":10591.067843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10592.60346875,"end":10592.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10592.62034375,"end":10599.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10599.657218750002,"end":10601.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10602.458468750003,"end":10602.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10602.47534375,"end":10604.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10605.074093750001,"end":10610.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10611.722843750002,"end":10614.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10614.97971875,"end":10615.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10616.97096875,"end":10618.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10619.805968750003,"end":10620.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10621.493468750003,"end":10622.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10622.590343750002,"end":10624.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10625.172218750002,"end":10626.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10627.770968750003,"end":10629.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10630.454093750002,"end":10630.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10631.36534375,"end":10633.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10633.47471875,"end":10635.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10636.00596875,"end":10639.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10639.769093750001,"end":10641.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10641.96284375,"end":10642.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10642.739093750002,"end":10645.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10646.417843750001,"end":10647.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10647.599093750003,"end":10648.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10648.965968750003,"end":10648.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10649.08409375,"end":10650.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10651.14284375,"end":10655.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10655.378468750001,"end":10661.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10661.976593750001,"end":10662.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10663.07346875,"end":10670.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10670.49846875,"end":10673.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10673.839718750001,"end":10677.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10677.974093750003,"end":10683.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10684.302218750003,"end":10692.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10685.567843750003,"end":10685.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10693.634093750003,"end":10694.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10695.102218750002,"end":10695.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10696.620968750001,"end":10697.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10697.92034375,"end":10699.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10699.540343750003,"end":10700.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10702.020968750003,"end":10702.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10702.864718750003,"end":10704.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10704.87284375,"end":10706.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10707.218468750001,"end":10709.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10710.20534375,"end":10722.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10721.79846875,"end":10727.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10725.156593750002,"end":10726.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10726.894718750002,"end":10727.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10727.755343750003,"end":10727.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10727.97471875,"end":10728.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10728.008468750002,"end":10728.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10728.02534375,"end":10731.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10728.07596875,"end":10729.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10731.36659375,"end":10734.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10734.15096875,"end":10744.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10734.269093750001,"end":10735.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10741.727843750003,"end":10742.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10742.925968750002,"end":10743.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10744.02284375,"end":10744.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10744.765343750001,"end":10745.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10745.96346875,"end":10747.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10747.07721875,"end":10747.094093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10748.02221875,"end":10760.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10749.08534375,"end":10749.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10751.49846875,"end":10752.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10754.907218750002,"end":10754.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10754.940968750001,"end":10756.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10756.527218750001,"end":10756.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10756.56096875,"end":10758.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10762.450343750003,"end":10768.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10778.17784375,"end":10780.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10780.540343750003,"end":10781.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10788.67409375,"end":10789.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10789.46721875,"end":10789.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10789.484093750001,"end":10789.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10790.445968750002,"end":10806.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10806.39284375,"end":10833.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10834.000343750002,"end":10834.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10834.844093750002,"end":10837.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10837.71284375,"end":10842.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10842.910343750002,"end":10858.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10858.06409375,"end":10876.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10860.76409375,"end":10860.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10875.31034375,"end":10883.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10884.64221875,"end":10896.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10896.79221875,"end":10909.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10901.078468750002,"end":10901.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10907.136593750001,"end":10914.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10913.633468750002,"end":10918.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10919.286593750003,"end":10921.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10921.21034375,"end":10921.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10921.446593750003,"end":10923.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10923.82596875,"end":10923.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10923.859718750002,"end":10924.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10924.028468750003,"end":10926.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10926.52596875,"end":10949.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10946.65784375,"end":10961.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10960.47846875,"end":10966.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10966.890968750002,"end":10972.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10970.097218750001,"end":10971.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10972.03784375,"end":10973.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10973.13471875,"end":10973.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10973.15159375,"end":10988.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10988.33909375,"end":10991.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10991.190968750001,"end":10991.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10991.680343750002,"end":10991.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10992.777218750001,"end":10992.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10992.96284375,"end":11032.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11016.48659375,"end":11016.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11032.028468750003,"end":11051.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11052.750968750002,"end":11053.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11053.76346875,"end":11053.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11054.45534375,"end":11060.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11060.024093750002,"end":11080.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11080.61159375,"end":11080.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11081.168468750002,"end":11094.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11094.094718750002,"end":11096.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11097.250343750002,"end":11098.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11099.157218750002,"end":11106.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11107.746593750002,"end":11112.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11112.30284375,"end":11115.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11118.546593750001,"end":11120.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11121.415343750003,"end":11121.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11121.465968750003,"end":11121.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11121.550343750001,"end":11121.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11121.63471875,"end":11134.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11121.85409375,"end":11123.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11127.91221875,"end":11127.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11128.01346875,"end":11138.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11138.77971875,"end":11141.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11141.344718750002,"end":11165.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11165.695343750001,"end":11171.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11172.25971875,"end":11173.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11174.200343750003,"end":11182.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11182.75596875,"end":11188.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11188.72971875,"end":11198.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11199.614093750002,"end":11202.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11202.63471875,"end":11202.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11203.309718750003,"end":11204.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11204.237843750001,"end":11204.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11204.69346875,"end":11205.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11205.97596875,"end":11221.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11218.480343750001,"end":11227.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11227.96409375,"end":11228.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11228.031593750002,"end":11228.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11228.301593750002,"end":11229.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11229.31409375,"end":11229.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11229.65159375,"end":11229.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11229.85409375,"end":11231.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11229.90471875,"end":11230.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11230.039718750002,"end":11230.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11231.37284375,"end":11233.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11235.895343750002,"end":11237.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11239.675343750001,"end":11246.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11241.44721875,"end":11243.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11247.52221875,"end":11259.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11249.31096875,"end":11253.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11260.06034375,"end":11276.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11277.05346875,"end":11280.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11281.27221875,"end":11283.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11283.499718750001,"end":11288.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11290.08096875,"end":11290.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11290.097843750002,"end":11295.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11290.199093750001,"end":11292.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11295.02534375,"end":11299.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11296.03784375,"end":11296.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11299.395968750003,"end":11299.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11301.809093750002,"end":11301.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11305.605968750002,"end":11308.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11314.583468750003,"end":11317.890968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11324.168468750002,"end":11325.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11325.02909375,"end":11325.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11325.29909375,"end":11325.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11325.704093750002,"end":11328.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11328.42096875,"end":11334.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11334.884093750003,"end":11339.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11339.86221875,"end":11350.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11351.539718750002,"end":11362.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11360.500343750002,"end":11361.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11362.32284375,"end":11363.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11363.622218750003,"end":11364.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11364.077843750001,"end":11365.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11364.58409375,"end":11367.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11368.043468750002,"end":11372.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11372.97096875,"end":11373.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11374.067843750003,"end":11374.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11375.316593750002,"end":11407.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11407.952843750001,"end":11412.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11412.94784375,"end":11452.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11452.097843750002,"end":11467.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11467.487843750001,"end":11473.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11474.32221875,"end":11482.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11482.472843750002,"end":11509.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11510.35034375,"end":11535.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11534.430968750003,"end":11539.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11540.03346875,"end":11544.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11545.129718750002,"end":11555.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11555.676593750002,"end":11562.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11562.93284375,"end":11566.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11567.016593750002,"end":11567.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11567.961593750002,"end":11575.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11575.52159375,"end":11579.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11579.80784375,"end":11582.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11582.457218750002,"end":11583.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11583.621593750002,"end":11601.019718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11585.54534375,"end":11586.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11586.50721875,"end":11589.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11598.066593750002,"end":11605.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11605.74471875,"end":11607.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11605.778468750003,"end":11610.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11608.07346875,"end":11608.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11609.997218750003,"end":11644.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11614.992218750001,"end":11615.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11615.02596875,"end":11616.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11644.844093750002,"end":11646.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11646.531593750002,"end":11647.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11648.472218750001,"end":11650.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11651.222843750002,"end":11653.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11653.72034375,"end":11655.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11655.82971875,"end":11656.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11657.21346875,"end":11658.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11659.05284375,"end":11661.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11661.921593750001,"end":11664.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11664.85784375,"end":11677.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11677.328468750002,"end":11711.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11711.93909375,"end":11731.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11731.04159375,"end":11733.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11734.41659375,"end":11738.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11738.500343750002,"end":11744.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11745.53721875,"end":11749.249718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11749.637843750003,"end":11756.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11756.472218750001,"end":11758.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11758.480343750001,"end":11775.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11773.44846875,"end":11783.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11783.92784375,"end":11799.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11800.262843750003,"end":11805.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11805.51096875,"end":11807.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11808.54846875,"end":11814.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11809.76346875,"end":11810.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11815.332218750002,"end":11868.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11868.539093750001,"end":11869.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11873.871593750002,"end":11874.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11874.968468750001,"end":11875.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11875.289093750001,"end":11882.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11891.13471875,"end":11895.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11895.640343750001,"end":11897.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11895.927218750003,"end":11897.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11897.074718750002,"end":11897.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11897.226593750001,"end":11901.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11897.26034375,"end":11898.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11902.356593750003,"end":11903.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11903.58846875,"end":11912.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11912.71784375,"end":11913.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11913.76409375,"end":11914.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11915.063468750002,"end":11922.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11923.41659375,"end":11927.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11928.563468750002,"end":11943.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11943.81846875,"end":11955.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11956.019093750001,"end":11961.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11961.672218750002,"end":11963.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11964.43971875,"end":11984.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11985.60096875,"end":11987.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11988.300968750002,"end":11995.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11995.523468750001,"end":11998.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11998.965968750003,"end":12004.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12004.973468750002,"end":12010.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12010.609718750002,"end":12011.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12012.01034375,"end":12014.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12015.773468750001,"end":12018.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12019.13159375,"end":12020.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12020.886593750001,"end":12029.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12029.374718750001,"end":12031.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12031.821593750003,"end":12042.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12042.13221875,"end":12044.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12044.612843750001,"end":12045.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12045.844718750002,"end":12096.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12096.13221875,"end":12097.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12098.140343750001,"end":12115.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12115.335968750001,"end":12121.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12119.284718750001,"end":12119.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12121.96784375,"end":12139.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12139.973468750002,"end":12142.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12142.285343750002,"end":12153.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12153.034718750001,"end":12154.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12155.093468750001,"end":12159.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12159.88596875,"end":12161.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12161.117843750002,"end":12162.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12163.34534375,"end":12164.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12165.10034375,"end":12167.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12168.492218750001,"end":12170.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12170.567843750003,"end":12174.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12174.972218750001,"end":12184.152218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12184.523468750001,"end":12194.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12194.68221875,"end":12197.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12197.399093750002,"end":12198.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12199.49159375,"end":12200.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12201.21284375,"end":12205.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12206.309093750002,"end":12207.945968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12208.620968750001,"end":12210.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12210.86534375,"end":12226.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12226.96409375,"end":12231.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12231.098468750002,"end":12232.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12231.840968750003,"end":12231.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12232.44846875,"end":12254.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12251.46659375,"end":12252.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12254.63909375,"end":12270.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12270.02909375,"end":12286.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12272.57721875,"end":12272.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12280.15409375,"end":12280.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12281.622218750003,"end":12282.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12284.11971875,"end":12284.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12284.879093750002,"end":12285.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12286.39784375,"end":12307.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12308.149718750003,"end":12309.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12309.027218750001,"end":12309.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12309.297218750002,"end":12309.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12309.398468750001,"end":12310.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12309.63471875,"end":12310.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12310.84971875,"end":12320.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12320.907218750002,"end":12322.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12322.324718750002,"end":12325.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12325.902218750001,"end":12344.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12345.578468750002,"end":12352.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12352.446593750003,"end":12354.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12355.61909375,"end":12358.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12358.707218750002,"end":12359.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12360.05721875,"end":12366.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12366.68909375,"end":12378.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12379.109093750001,"end":12385.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12385.605968750002,"end":12387.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12388.457843750002,"end":12406.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12406.969718750002,"end":12409.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12409.905968750001,"end":12414.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12415.12034375,"end":12417.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12418.765343750001,"end":12419.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12421.465343750002,"end":12421.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12421.49909375,"end":12438.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12438.62721875,"end":12450.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12450.59159375,"end":12467.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12468.42846875,"end":12472.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12473.17034375,"end":12480.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12480.747218750003,"end":12482.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12482.97471875,"end":12493.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12490.062218750001,"end":12490.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12493.032218750002,"end":12497.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12498.094718750002,"end":12499.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12499.59659375,"end":12500.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12501.570968750002,"end":12506.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12507.12284375,"end":12507.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12508.38846875,"end":12509.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12509.755343750003,"end":12510.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12511.206593750001,"end":12513.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12513.484718750002,"end":12516.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12517.78784375,"end":12519.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12519.964718750001,"end":12521.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12521.567843750003,"end":12527.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12527.91284375,"end":12537.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12538.004093750002,"end":12549.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12549.715343750002,"end":12550.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12550.035968750002,"end":12554.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12551.942843750003,"end":12552.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12555.790343750003,"end":12559.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12559.97534375,"end":12564.177218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12564.39659375,"end":12567.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12565.746593750002,"end":12565.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12566.370968750001,"end":12581.305343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12570.066593750002,"end":12570.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12581.406593750002,"end":12617.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12615.96659375,"end":12622.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12623.391593750002,"end":12629.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12630.79971875,"end":12631.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12631.710968750001,"end":12631.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12632.301593750002,"end":12632.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12632.31846875,"end":12632.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12632.824718750002,"end":12632.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12632.875343750002,"end":12632.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12632.976593750001,"end":12647.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12647.03346875,"end":12651.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12652.66971875,"end":12665.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12665.899718750003,"end":12687.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12674.691593750002,"end":12675.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12687.465968750003,"end":12688.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12690.26721875,"end":12694.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12707.15909375,"end":12708.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12713.099093750003,"end":12713.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12714.398468750001,"end":12715.714718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12721.165343750003,"end":12721.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12721.18221875,"end":12721.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12721.890968750002,"end":12731.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12732.235343750002,"end":12743.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12744.38534375,"end":12751.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12751.65846875,"end":12756.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12756.974093750003,"end":12759.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12759.977843750003,"end":12765.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12766.00221875,"end":12788.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12788.53034375,"end":12790.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12791.179718750001,"end":12820.204718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12820.32284375,"end":12862.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12845.80409375,"end":12845.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12862.206593750001,"end":12862.392218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12862.392218750003,"end":12862.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12862.442843750003,"end":12878.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12878.659718750001,"end":12882.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12882.692843750003,"end":12888.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12888.160343750002,"end":12937.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12937.82346875,"end":12968.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12968.87346875,"end":12968.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12968.97471875,"end":12970.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12971.472218750001,"end":12981.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12982.035968750002,"end":13008.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13006.724093750003,"end":13007.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13008.884093750003,"end":13021.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13022.14784375,"end":13026.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13026.51846875,"end":13039.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13039.96784375,"end":13046.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13047.055343750002,"end":13049.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13050.04221875,"end":13050.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13051.34159375,"end":13066.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13060.032218750002,"end":13087.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13088.26409375,"end":13094.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13094.28846875,"end":13110.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13111.230968750002,"end":13142.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13142.871593750002,"end":13145.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13145.976593750001,"end":13149.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13149.722843750002,"end":13163.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13163.08784375,"end":13176.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13176.75659375,"end":13185.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13186.08846875,"end":13186.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13186.746593750002,"end":13199.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13199.622218750003,"end":13203.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13203.891593750002,"end":13218.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13215.14721875,"end":13223.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13219.66971875,"end":13228.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13228.10721875,"end":13228.157843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13228.242218750001,"end":13228.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13228.343468750001,"end":13230.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13228.37721875,"end":13234.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13232.562218750001,"end":13233.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13233.777218750001,"end":13233.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13234.43534375,"end":13302.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13303.47096875,"end":13311.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13311.824093750001,"end":13316.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13317.224093750003,"end":13342.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13342.840343750002,"end":13343.852843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13343.987843750001,"end":13350.383468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13350.855968750002,"end":13351.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13352.67846875,"end":13360.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13366.87034375,"end":13370.751593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13371.88221875,"end":13373.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13372.472843750002,"end":13372.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13373.316593750002,"end":13375.949093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13375.71284375,"end":13376.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13375.965968750003,"end":13377.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13376.99534375,"end":13379.290343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13386.58034375,"end":13390.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13391.28846875,"end":13398.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13398.780968750001,"end":13408.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13408.484093750001,"end":13410.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13410.981593750003,"end":13422.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13424.481593750003,"end":13445.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13436.26034375,"end":13436.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13446.38534375,"end":13464.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13464.981593750003,"end":13468.727843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13468.96409375,"end":13474.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13470.43221875,"end":13471.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13471.95096875,"end":13472.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13472.946593750003,"end":13473.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13474.81971875,"end":13476.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13477.469093750002,"end":13479.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13479.730343750001,"end":13483.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13483.61159375,"end":13489.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13490.15909375,"end":13491.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13492.403468750003,"end":13495.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13495.47471875,"end":13495.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13495.508468750002,"end":13531.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13532.380343750003,"end":13533.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13533.34221875,"end":13536.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13533.39284375,"end":13533.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13537.645343750002,"end":13539.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13540.530968750001,"end":13547.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13547.871593750002,"end":13551.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13552.22534375,"end":13576.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13574.63534375,"end":13575.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13576.96409375,"end":13577.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13577.976593750001,"end":13578.870968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13578.870968750001,"end":13578.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13578.95534375,"end":13580.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13580.79471875,"end":13586.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13586.414093750001,"end":13587.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13587.24096875,"end":13589.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13589.45159375,"end":13598.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13591.61159375,"end":13592.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13599.559718750003,"end":13601.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13601.027843750002,"end":13625.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13625.969093750002,"end":13626.120968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13626.492218750001,"end":13626.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13626.52596875,"end":13628.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13628.06159375,"end":13634.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13630.91346875,"end":13631.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13634.96346875,"end":13636.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13637.039093750001,"end":13650.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13650.606593750003,"end":13654.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13655.196593750003,"end":13666.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13666.55346875,"end":13666.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13666.587218750003,"end":13678.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13678.821593750003,"end":13728.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13728.484718750002,"end":13732.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13732.770968750003,"end":13740.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13740.95534375,"end":13765.727843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13764.63096875,"end":13770.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13770.21659375,"end":13784.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13784.56034375,"end":13786.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13786.534718750001,"end":13796.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13796.96346875,"end":13798.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13798.70159375,"end":13799.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13800.18659375,"end":13803.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13805.24909375,"end":13807.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13808.30346875,"end":13809.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13809.957218750002,"end":13811.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13812.67409375,"end":13835.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13830.308468750001,"end":13832.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13834.695968750002,"end":13835.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13835.961593750002,"end":13840.720343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13836.02909375,"end":13836.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13836.82221875,"end":13837.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13840.905968750001,"end":13842.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13842.542843750001,"end":13843.673468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13844.078468750002,"end":13846.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13846.035968750002,"end":13847.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13847.942843750003,"end":13850.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13848.027218750001,"end":13848.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13849.54596875,"end":13858.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13858.540343750003,"end":13867.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13865.864093750002,"end":13866.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13868.395343750002,"end":13873.626593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13872.411593750003,"end":13873.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13873.407218750002,"end":13893.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13893.89346875,"end":13893.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13894.112843750001,"end":13894.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13894.14659375,"end":13894.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13894.16346875,"end":13894.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13894.180343750002,"end":13894.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13894.230968750002,"end":13901.470343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13901.571593750003,"end":13902.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13906.043468750002,"end":13910.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13918.530968750001,"end":13922.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13923.120968750001,"end":13923.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13923.137843750003,"end":13924.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13924.31909375,"end":13924.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13929.077843750001,"end":13929.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13929.95534375,"end":13953.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13933.80284375,"end":13934.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13938.156593750002,"end":13938.173468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13938.173468750003,"end":13938.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13938.797843750002,"end":13939.472843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13945.851593750001,"end":13945.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13945.88534375,"end":13946.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13953.242843750002,"end":13953.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13953.614093750002,"end":13970.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13958.76096875,"end":13959.047843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13970.35409375,"end":13970.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13970.640968750002,"end":13999.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13974.94409375,"end":13974.960968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13974.960968750001,"end":13974.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13974.99471875,"end":13975.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13997.050343750001,"end":13997.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13997.10096875,"end":13997.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14000.10471875,"end":14015.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14001.690968750001,"end":14002.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14013.520343750002,"end":14013.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14015.579093750002,"end":14015.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14016.06846875,"end":14130.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14017.992218750001,"end":14019.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14028.35346875,"end":14028.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14028.927218750003,"end":14028.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14048.434718750003,"end":14048.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14093.085968750001,"end":14093.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14093.507843750001,"end":14093.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14093.625968750002,"end":14093.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14096.32596875,"end":14096.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14101.23659375,"end":14101.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14131.442843750003,"end":14141.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14137.46721875,"end":14137.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14137.83846875,"end":14137.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14141.179718750001,"end":14187.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14183.046593750001,"end":14183.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14184.902843750002,"end":14185.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14185.442843750003,"end":14191.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14188.159718750001,"end":14188.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14189.05409375,"end":14189.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14189.15534375,"end":14189.189093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14189.93159375,"end":14196.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14191.770968750003,"end":14192.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14196.22596875,"end":14246.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14199.550343750001,"end":14199.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14201.28846875,"end":14202.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14202.23346875,"end":14202.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14202.28409375,"end":14202.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14203.07721875,"end":14203.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14232.23721875,"end":14232.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14241.552218750003,"end":14241.957218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14245.63596875,"end":14245.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":14245.652843750002,"end":14246.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14248.015343750001,"end":14277.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14278.22159375,"end":14320.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14278.27221875,"end":14278.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14320.155968750001,"end":14323.379093750002}],"whisperx":[{"start":1655.752,"end":1664.142,"text":"報告委員會初期委員10人已足法定人數現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議的議事錄"},{"start":1671.021,"end":1698.166,"text":"立法院第十一屆第五會期外交及國防委員會第十七次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十五年五月十八日星期一上午九十三分至十一時四十七分五月二十日星期三上午九十二分至十一時三十三分五月二十一日星期四上午九十至十七時五十一分地點紅樓三零一會議室出席委員黃仁等十四人列席委員林倩琦等五人列席人員五月十八日星期一"},{"start":1699.127,"end":1712.064,"text":"國軍退儲役官兵輔導委員會主任委員嚴德發及所屬人員行政院主計總署公務預算處專門委員吳明修基金預算處科長謝明傑5月20日星期三侨務委員會委員長許家金及所屬人員"},{"start":1713.581,"end":1732.371,"text":"行政院主席總署公務預算處專門委員邱碧珠5月21日星期四國防部部長顧烈雄及所屬人員行政院主席總署公務預算處專門委員邱碧珠主席陳召集委員冠廷馬召集委員文君5月18日星期一報告事項宣讀上次會議意思錄決定確定"},{"start":1734.216,"end":1745.699,"text":"討論事項 繼續審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於國軍退出役官兵輔導委員會主管收支部分決議依審查結果稅務部分第二款罰款及賠償收入第223項國軍退出役官兵輔導委員會原列333萬1千元增列第一幕賠償收入第一節一般賠償收入10萬元"},{"start":1756.122,"end":1763.369,"text":"其餘均照列改列為343萬1千元第三款規費收入第183項國軍退出役官兵輔導委員會31063萬2千元照列第四款財產收入第234項國軍退出役官兵輔導委員會1080萬元照列"},{"start":1775.1,"end":1787.828,"text":"第七款其他收入第234項國軍退出於官兵輔導委員會原列3億3806萬元增列第一幕雜項收入第一節收回以前年度稅出500萬元其餘均照列改列為3億4306萬元稅出部分"},{"start":1791.17,"end":1807.317,"text":"第二十六款國軍退出與官兵輔導委員會主管第一項國軍退出與官兵輔導委員會原列一千三百二十五億六千零七十一萬四千元簡列第四目退出與官兵服務救助與照顧向下單身網路農民喪後山葬及遺產"},{"start":1808.737,"end":1830.303,"text":"遺產管理作業中業務費至大陸地區旅費三萬兩千元及第七目榮民安養及養護向下基本行政工作維持中業務費至大陸地區旅費五十一萬七千元共計減列五十四萬九千元改列為一千三百二十五億六千零一十六萬五千元本項通過決議四十五項二"},{"start":1832.182,"end":1851.293,"text":"一百一十五年度中央政府總預算案關於國軍退出與官兵輔導委員會主管收支部分審查完略審查結果送財政委員會會政後提報院會不需交由黨團協商院會討論時由陳昭吉委員冠廷出席說明三本次預算審查如有預算科目金額或文字物"},{"start":1852.514,"end":1864.97,"text":"措權醫事人員調整2.繼續審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國軍退儲役官兵輔導委員會主管兵營業基金作業基金1.國軍退儲役官兵安置基金2.榮民醫療作業基金"},{"start":1868.7,"end":1897.482,"text":"決議一審查結果國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會主管一國軍退除役官兵安置基金一業務計劃因依據業務收支轉投資固定資產建設改良擴充及資金應用等向之審查結果隨同調整二業務收支一業務總收入原列三十億一千七百五十四萬一千元增列業務收入一百萬元含勞務收入向下服務收入五十萬元銷貨收入向下製成品銷貨收入五十萬元其餘均照列改列為三十億一千八百五十四萬一千元"},{"start":1898.283,"end":1925.528,"text":"二 業務總支出二十一億三千八百五十五萬元 照列三 本期剩餘延列八億七千八百九十九萬一千元 增列一百萬元改列為八億七千九百九十九萬一千元三 結繳公庫金額無劣數四 轉投資計畫一億元 照列五 固定資產建設改良擴充一億八千三百二十六萬兩千元 照列六 國庫增波基金額無劣數七 補辦預算收回資金轉投資四千八百六十萬元 照列八 通過決議九項"},{"start":1928.018,"end":1943.143,"text":"二 榮民醫療作業基金一業務計劃因依據一業務收支轉投資固定資產建設改良擴充及資金應用等向之審查結果隨同調整二 業務收支一業務總收入原列906億2689萬9千元增列業務收入1000萬元其餘均造列改列為906億3689萬9千元二 業務總支出870億2003萬1千元造列"},{"start":1954.126,"end":1958.768,"text":"3本期剩餘原列36億686萬8千元增列1千萬元改列為36億1686萬8千元3節繳公庫金額5列屬式固定資產建設改良擴充原列120億3172萬元減列一般建築及設備計畫向下一次性項目中雜項設備50萬元"},{"start":1974.435,"end":1997.121,"text":"及台中榮民總醫院專案計畫向下繼續計畫致台中榮民總醫院醫護宿舍大樓新辦計畫九千萬元共計減列九千零五十萬元其餘均造列改列為一百一十九億四千一百二十二萬元五國庫增撥基金額無劣數六補辦預算固定資產建設改良擴充一億兩千五百三十九萬六千元造列七通過決議八項"},{"start":2001.171,"end":2023.332,"text":"2.115年度中央政府總預算案國軍退儲役官兵輔導委員會主管國軍退儲役官兵安置基金及榮民醫療作業基金附屬單位預算審查完均審查結果送財政委員會會政後提報院會不需交由黨團協商院會討論時有參召集委員冠廷出席說明三本次預算審查如有預算科目金額或文字物質措權議事人員調整"},{"start":2025.253,"end":2044.931,"text":"五月二十日星期三討論事項一審查一百一十五年度中央政府總預算案關於僑務委員會主管收支公開及機密部分僅詢答二審查一百一十五年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於僑務委員會主管信託基金僅詢答一中手跟公益基金二受理捐贈僑生獎助學金"},{"start":2045.649,"end":2066.967,"text":"及堅固地區僑民學校失職輔助基金僑務委員會委員長許家青報告委員王逸川等14人質詢經由僑務委員會委員長許家青即席答覆決議登記質詢在場委員均已發言完畢報告及詢討結束二委員陳永康林處因所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報三委員所提書面及口頭質詢未即答覆或要求提供資資訊"},{"start":2068.388,"end":2092.629,"text":"請求委員會於二周內順便答覆本會全體委員並附資本會委員令指定期限者從其鎖定以上如有涉及機密部分請確實依相關保命規定辦理4.以上二案令則其繼續審查5月21日星期四討論事項繼續審查115年度中央政府總理算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分關乎部署國家安全局部分決議本案令則其繼續審查宣讀完畢"},{"start":2095.472,"end":2123.066,"text":"好 請問在場委員對上次會議的意思錄有無遺漏或錯誤需要更正之處沒有 好意思錄確定現在請議事人員宣讀報告事項報告事項邀請外交部部長林佳龍國家安全局局長蔡明彥報告美中元首峰會後地緣政治新局對我國外交及總體國家安全之衝擊評估與因應並請道路委員會列席並備質詢宣讀完畢"},{"start":2127.217,"end":2155.729,"text":"現在介紹在場的委員與會官員首先介紹黃仁委員沈伯陽委員與會的我們各部會的官員林佳龍部長亞東太平洋司司長林昭宏先生亞西及非洲司司長嚴嘉良先生歐洲司司長黃君耀先生"},{"start":2156.974,"end":2183.17,"text":"北美司司长王良玉女士拉美及加勒比海司司长韩志正司长条约法律司副司长徐波宜先生是国际组织司副司长张之萨先生女士 抱歉国际合作及经济事务司司长叶志诚先生"},{"start":2185.389,"end":2210.874,"text":"國際傳播司司長張秀珍女士謝謝顏社會主任柯良瑞您好人事處副處長張書豪公眾外交協調會執行長肖光偉先生謝謝領事事務局局長鄭正勇先生"},{"start":2213.68,"end":2242.762,"text":"台湾日本关系协会副秘书长林玉慧女士国家安全局局长蔡明彦先生 蔡局长大陆委员会副主任委员沈有忠副主委 谢谢综合规划处专门委员刘家恒先生好 谢谢本日会议邀请外交部国家安全局报告"},{"start":2243.769,"end":2267.49,"text":"美中元首峰會後地緣政治新局對我國外交及總體國家安全衝擊評估與因應並備執行現在請外交部林部長上台報告主席 各位委員 各位理事先生 大家早"},{"start":2268.663,"end":2287.666,"text":"那外交部就貴會指定報告美中元首峰會後地緣政治新局對我國外交及總體國家安全之衝擊評估與因應那進行以下的專題報告並請各位委員不吝指教"},{"start":2289.023,"end":2303.745,"text":"美國總統川普在本年5月13日至15日訪問中國這是美國總統自2017年以來時隔近10年再次訪中本部及駐美代表處還有國安單位"},{"start":2306.081,"end":2325.134,"text":"持續關注對美方保持密切的聯繫確保台海關係穩定深化以及我國利益不受影響有關川習會的邀請請參考書面資料那麼在川習會討論的議題跟他的這個成果以及可能的影響以下"},{"start":2326.795,"end":2345.871,"text":"在做報告首先川習會曾討論包括中國採購美國產品芬太尼建立人工智慧護欄核武管控管網路攻擊以及伊朗台灣烏克蘭北韓等地緣政治的議題那白宮在美東的時間5月17日有發布川習會事實清單"},{"start":2347.626,"end":2354.229,"text":"列出包括美中建立戰略穩定之建設性關係高層互訪設立貿易及投資兩委員會中方對美產品採購的承諾以及雙方對關鍵礦物議題即伊朗及北韓等議題之共識"},{"start":2366.877,"end":2375.014,"text":"那麼我方的觀察跟研析如下首先就是現階段美中透過元首外交尋求戰略穩定關係為戰略競爭的本質不變"},{"start":2379.241,"end":2401.23,"text":"那麼在美中戰略競爭下雙方地緣政治目標並非一致美方也清楚了解中方的野心美國的國務卿盧比爾即在會前明確的指出中方野心不僅限於台灣而是希望將實力投射於全世界也強調中國是美國首要地緣政治的挑戰"},{"start":2402.233,"end":2414.994,"text":"那麼除了地緣政治之外呢美中兩國在AI、關鍵礦物等重要議題的核心利益也是南轅北轍正如同Rubio國務卿曾表示中國"},{"start":2416.294,"end":2419.235,"text":"那麼至於前次川普訪中至今這一次的訪問相隔有將近十年美中也爆發了關稅戰"},{"start":2443.266,"end":2464.072,"text":"那這一次會後的發展包括採購稀土供應鏈等談判成果是否將實際上落實以及會否牽動美中互動的氣氛包括後續的高峰會都是本部持續要觀察的跟因應的重點那第二方面是中方搶先發布新聞並在單方面談及台灣預顯這個操作輿論的方向"},{"start":2469.837,"end":2485.75,"text":"幾次中共的輿論操作,我方也都語語應應,也跟美方做好很多的溝通,他們也是在過程中加以平衡。"},{"start":2486.491,"end":2501.04,"text":"那麼再來就是美方在川習會前中後都有節奏的傳遞美國對台的政策不變那重視台海和平穩定反對破壞現狀等重要的訊息那有關於"},{"start":2502.161,"end":2517.362,"text":"這一個川普總統速度強調美國對台政策未變,並表示未對習近平就台灣議題作出承諾,而美國國務卿盧比爾訪中前及兩度公開,重申對台政策不變,以及對台海和平穩定的重視。"},{"start":2518.303,"end":2534.399,"text":"那麼屈臣在空中一號接受專訪時也指出在印太、台灣及其他地區任何一種被迫改變現況的情形呢均不符合中國或任何一方之利益而該地區維持穩定自為重要"},{"start":2535.16,"end":2560.776,"text":"那麼至於其他的美國的官員包括駐中的大使聯合國的大使以及貿易代表還有國務院也都多次再度重申美國對台的政策不變至於在軍售議題上美方說以強調對台政策不變那華五政策圈亦呼籲持續對台軍售並指出台灣並非挑釁一方"},{"start":2561.576,"end":2589.701,"text":"那有關於這個川普成就軍售議題的發言本部是不被代為解讀其發言不過我們也要這個再跟美國這個有關於這一次的簡報美國對火砲的簡報裡面也再次強調那這個都這個依照台灣關係法還是會持續確保台灣這個自我防衛所需要的軍售"},{"start":2591.842,"end":2602.971,"text":"川普總統在台灣議題上,成如駐中大使提到的,有堅守底線也任內對台的軍售規模已經超過1979年來歷任的美國總統至於"},{"start":2610.057,"end":2633.296,"text":"美國在來協會台北辦事處國務院處長也秉持國務院的指示有接受訪問中有提到強調美國對台政策不變且以明確向中方表達此一立場美方持續關切台海現狀遭逐步侵蝕因此高度重視透過強化台灣自我防衛能力重建台海和平"},{"start":2634.016,"end":2651.83,"text":"那其他像聯邦眾議院的議長還有參眾兩院跨黨派的國會議員也都表達對於台灣的支持包括對台的軍售那也持續"},{"start":2653.257,"end":2668.68,"text":"那麼發言希望能夠遵守台灣關係法跟六項保證的相關規定川普政府能夠持續對台軍售持續協助台灣取得必要的防禦武器並建立嚇阻的力量"},{"start":2670.049,"end":2693.782,"text":"那麼華府的跨黨派的智庫也指出台灣從未挑釁中方才是改變現狀的一方呼籲持續對台軍售強調對台軍售是維持台海現狀並涉及印太地區安全穩定以及美國的聲譽在美方對賴總統就川習會傳達的立場跟就職兩周年演說也都表達予以肯定"},{"start":2694.562,"end":2710.55,"text":"那麼我方也樂見美國在台協會鼓勵言處長表達美方歡迎賴總統重申維持兩岸現狀及希望北京不設前提與台灣民選領導人交流那麼美國國務院的發言人也針對賴總統就職兩週年的談話表示美國對台的堅定承諾能持續如同40多年來的立場"},{"start":2716.033,"end":2728.8,"text":"美國對台政策並未改變美方期待與賴總統及台灣持續合作推進雙方共同利益並維護台海和平與穩定敦促北京停止對台的軍事外交跟經濟施壓轉而與台灣進行有意義的對話"},{"start":2731.926,"end":2752.405,"text":"那麼在捷運方面因為未來本年預估川習會還有可能有第三次會晤的機會本部也將持續關注美中互動情況並與美方緊密的溝通協調那誠如古立言處長所提的"},{"start":2753.146,"end":2781.823,"text":"那麼穩定的美中關係跟強健的台美關係並不衝突美中的互動也不影響台美在各領域合作的持續深化那麼我們也這樣秉持總和外交及三連戰略那麼持續加強跟美國的理念相近盟友的協調合作在地緣政治不斷變化的新局中鞏固並穩健提升我國在安全經貿及國際參與上的利益那以上簡要報告 敬請指教 謝謝"},{"start":2787.548,"end":2790.555,"text":"接著請國家安全局蔡局長上台做報告"},{"start":2797.619,"end":2823.817,"text":"好 謝謝主席主席 各位委員 先進 各位女士 各位先生 大家早那感謝大院安排本局列席今天的專題報告那以下請就川習會後對區域情勢還有我國國家安全的影響跟大家報告如此第一大部分是有關於元首峰會的特點第一 我們可以看到在這一次的峰會過程當中雙方刻意地去鋪陳元首會談的氣氛那美國總統川普率領他的重要的官員以及各領域的企業家到中國來進行訪問"},{"start":2824.958,"end":2839.115,"text":"那中方的接待的相關的一個規格也比川普在2017年到美國來到中國來進行訪問來得更高那刻意來展示雙方援手友好的一個互動那第二是雙方也尋求來管理彼此的爭議那美中雙邊的一個爭議有它關係錯綜複雜那中共主張兩國應該要來建立其戰略性"},{"start":2844.761,"end":2865.917,"text":"建設性的戰略穩定關係那美方強調是這樣的一個關係的建立必須要以公平互惠為基本的前提跟原則第三是雙方都各自交涉彼此關切的議題美方比較關切是在於波音客機農產品採購以及市場准入的問題那同時也關切到中國的稀土出口的管制那中方在過程當中比較在"},{"start":2866.717,"end":2892.922,"text":"可以看到是在美方的一個關稅政策壓力之下同意去採購有200家的波音客機以及每年至少170億美金的農產品那但是並沒有去鬆口放寬稀土管制的問題那在涉台的議題部分中方力促美方要審慎的來處理所謂的台灣問題那白宮在他的會談的事實清單這部分並沒有做出任何的回應那有關美中雙方官方的聲明的對照表請各位參考到我們所整理的副表"},{"start":2893.542,"end":2908.159,"text":"好 第二部分是有關於這次川習會對於地緣政治的一個影響跟意涵那第一部分我們認為美中競爭的態勢跟格局並沒有改變在經貿的成果部分雙方洽談的結果並不如預期那這次的川習會也沒有簽署任何的合作協議或備忘錄"},{"start":2909,"end":2922.08,"text":"那中共對美國的採購規模也不如預期那同時隨行的美國的企業也沒有獲知重大的合作計畫那晶片管制問題也沒有得到根本的解決那另一方面呢在美中的川習會的前後我們有看到美國積極加強跟區域盟友的多邊聯演"},{"start":2924.824,"end":2943.021,"text":"在會前美國跟日本、菲律賓、法國、加拿大、紐西蘭、澳洲等等的友盟動員了一萬七千名的兵力舉行了史上規模最大的艦兵艦艇的演習那主要的演訓科目集中在海空聯合作戰等等的一個實戰化的演訓那在演習的期間美國第一次在菲律賓來實彈試射戰斧巡弋飛彈以及海馬式的多管火箭"},{"start":2945.663,"end":2962.3,"text":"打擊的範圍涵蓋到印太地區主要的水域跟海上的通道那在川習會之後美國又再度的跟菲律賓、日本、澳洲、紐西蘭等國在呂宋島展開堅定聯演的第二階段的演訓動員有7000名的兵力主要是要展現美盟集體防衛的能量跟決心"},{"start":2964.102,"end":2983.242,"text":"另外我們也可以看到在地緣政治的影響的部分美中各自拉攏自己的盟友來進行抗衡提升自己的籌碼那在美國的部分美國財長貝塞在川普到中國進行訪問之前已經先行訪問了日本跟韓國那川普本人在訪問中國之後也立刻跟日本的首相"},{"start":2983.722,"end":2999.949,"text":"還有韓國的總統來進行通話重申要加強雙邊跟多邊的戰略合作關係那另外美國的國務卿盧比歐也在日前到印度進行訪問來出席跨的外長會議要來推動跟這些跨的重要成員國之間有關供應鏈韌性跟區域安全的合作的問題"},{"start":3000.789,"end":3025.16,"text":"在中國的部分也在川習會之後邀請俄國總統普丁到中國來進行訪問訪問期間雙方簽署了有40多項的合作文件同時來公開批評美國跟以色列攻擊伊朗的行為是違反國際法並且反對國際社會對於北韓的制裁還有孤立另外中共外長王毅也在川習會之前訪問了北韓加強跟北韓的戰略溝通目的是在營造中俄朝"},{"start":3025.62,"end":3047.601,"text":"三方之間緊密的協作氣氛以便來增加在跟美國在外交上抽傷的一個籌碼第三部分是有關於中東的議題也可以看到美中各持己見那美國持續的對伊朗的港口來進行封控那同時也不排除再度的發動軍事的行動來施壓伊朗放棄他的核武那同時也能夠來接受新版的停戰的方案"},{"start":3048.101,"end":3068.246,"text":"但是中共的方面他們一向反對對於伊朗採取經濟的制裁跟軍事的行動以便來維護中共在中東地區的地緣利益還有相關的一個能源的安全第三部分是有關於相關的川習會對我們的國家安全的影響這部分我們大概提出三點的觀察逐一的跟大家做個說明跟報告"},{"start":3068.866,"end":3094.237,"text":"那第一部分是有關於美國對台的基本政策立場並沒有改變那川普總統希望維持台海的現狀也強調他本人並沒有對習近平做出任何的承諾那另外美國的國務卿駐中國的大使還有駐聯合國的大使也都強調美國沒有改變對台政策而且對台灣的六項保證沒有改變那同時也不能夠坐視台海出現任何破壞和平穩定的一個行為那美國的眾議院議長也公開的支持對台的軍售"},{"start":3094.677,"end":3114.907,"text":"那第二部分我們所看到的是中共很強勢地來操作相關的涉台議題,包括重申中方在涉台問題的底線,也就是反對台美雙方官方的往來,以及美國對台的軍售案。那中國的官媒也擴大了渲染美中友好的氣氛,希望能夠來弱化美國對台灣的支持,還有台美安全合作的一個互獻的基礎。"},{"start":3115.527,"end":3141.841,"text":"那第三部分我們所看到的是中共有刻意去炒作所謂的移美論那在過程當中不斷地渲染美國對中國的讓步以及對我們國內來傳扇移美論跟棄台論那也同步地批評我們政府的兩岸政策突出台灣是麻煩製造者和平破壞者相關的敘事希望能夠來引導我們國內或國際相關輿論的風向好最後一部分是有關於結語那這次的川協會我們看到的是雙方都希望能夠保持高層的溝通網控彼此的一個分歧"},{"start":3142.381,"end":3159.726,"text":"那美方對中國對台灣的立場我們的評估認為還是延續到美國的國家安全戰略的主軸也就是強調跟印太友盟的合作因應中共的軍事擴張並且透過跟友盟非常密集的雙邊多邊的實戰化的演訓來發展拒止防禦的力量共為區域的和平跟穩定"},{"start":3160.106,"end":3189.606,"text":"那有鑑於剛剛林部長有提到今年川習會可能還有三次的一個會晤的機會所以本局會透過我們國際情報合作管道持續的來收嚴美中互動區域情勢各國台海政策相關的發展趨勢以並來支應政府的決策那另外本局也會加強來注收中共對我們的認知作戰整體的動向來防篤中共對我們的傳散、徵訊、誤導民眾的認知的相關的做法那以並來維護我們國內輿論的環境並且反制中共弱化我們跟友盟的關係以上報告請各位委員先進指教謝謝"},{"start":3195.648,"end":3215.155,"text":"现在开始询答本会委员6加2分钟非本会委员5分钟11点钟截止发言登记如有临时提案请于10点30分前提出11点钟左右开始处理我们现在请沈伯扬委员上台咨询"},{"start":3227.785,"end":3229.252,"text":"好 謝謝主席 那現在有請部長 謝謝"},{"start":3238.683,"end":3257.395,"text":"好 部長好那今天這個議題當然是重要啦尤其是這一個川習會之後那現在我們當然比較害怕的事情當然就是這個軍購的議題那因為我之前一直以來也是主張就是說如果軍購在這邊如果我們很早就討論完的話"},{"start":3258.536,"end":3282.165,"text":"他大概也不會直接 他就算要成為議題也是這對未來很久以後的軍售成為議題那我們去年11月所提出的這個軍購到現在還能夠成為議題就是因為我們一直拖到現在那這個繼承事實我覺得也 我們也沒有辦法迴避那就變成實質上當他們會面的時候剛剛不管是局長還有部長都有提到他的重點當然一開始跟伊朗有很大的關係"},{"start":3282.965,"end":3301.042,"text":"然後也跟稀土有關係還有跟他們貿易比如說到底希望他能夠購買什麼這幾個大概是最有關係的事情但台灣議題我覺得台灣議題一直以來是習近平比川普還想要談所以習近平他就是把這個丟出來之後那就要看川普要不要接球"},{"start":3301.622,"end":3324.569,"text":"那我想問的就是說呢第一個我們在當時不管是我們的這個國安局待會再問就是說我們在外交體系上面對這件事情一定有一定程度的預判我們大概也知道習近平一定會想要把這個東西端上談判桌那我們的外交體系在應對這件事情的時候到實際發生這段時間呢有沒有什麼落差還是跟預測的差不多"},{"start":3325.953,"end":3346.713,"text":"在我們預測的範圍內不管是會前會中或會後美方也跟我們保持溝通所以也在一再的確定美國對台政策不變再來就是台海的和平穩定維持現狀是符合美台的利益"},{"start":3349.695,"end":3376.778,"text":"對於軍售的問題因為川普總統他的一個風格他有把它提到說因為習近平很持續在要求就是停止對台的軍售可是他並沒有做任何的承諾至於其他在表述上有因為涉及到一些談判用的語言或策略包括他的風格我們當然要密切注意不過還是要從大的格局來看"},{"start":3377.558,"end":3393.548,"text":"川普總統是歷史上對台軍售最多的總統在第二任的第一年盛世他就已經有一批大於川普總統就是大於拜登總統四年"},{"start":3394.608,"end":3416.398,"text":"一年就大於四年的一批111億美元的軍售所以進行中的新的一批的軍售因為它還在進行中我們知道美國有它的依據包括台灣關係法以及它的行政部門跟國會的互動還有它憲政體制這方面當然都會影響至於說這個問題拋出來"},{"start":3420.62,"end":3435.809,"text":"那他的可能影響也不只是單方面涉及到的所謂美台關係他也涉及美中關係的後續的互動這個也是我們密切注意無論程度來講我的觀察是美國是企圖管理習近平"},{"start":3437.09,"end":3452.055,"text":"那當然表面上是所謂元首外交嘛但是事實上我想美國站在自己國家利益怎麼確保台灣能夠有自我防衛的能力"},{"start":3453.356,"end":3468.016,"text":"去做好所謂責任分擔來落實他的印太戰略其實台美是在立場跟利益上是一致的剛剛部長提到一些我覺得很重要的事情就是後續我們常常有時候都會關注在當下發生的事情以及"},{"start":3468.636,"end":3485.166,"text":"比如他上下飛機的時候講了什麼話但其實後續才是重要的我們外交體系一直以來也非常的努力接觸不只是官僚體系還有包括他們的國會議員所以美國當然也不是鐵板一塊美國當然也有內部一定也會有聲音認為說台灣的議題應該如何我們對中國應該如何這一定都會有"},{"start":3489.168,"end":3509.666,"text":"所以我們跟這些國會議員們還有他們官僚體系的維持就顯得特別重要而這件事情有後續嘛 對不對就我們可以看到美國參議院這個外交關係委員會的首席對不對 他就想說這個台灣的安全不應該成為籌碼那AIT更是不用講他其實講得非常非常的清楚就是說他怎麼去支持台灣的這樣的一個立場"},{"start":3510.387,"end":3527.51,"text":"所以這整件事情下來就是我們也有必要讓國人知道就是說美國的官僚體系是有它的穩定不管是它的戰爭部它的國務院還有他們現在的參眾議員他們對台灣的態度其實是非常穩定的"},{"start":3528.271,"end":3552.506,"text":"那在這個穩定之下呢即使在國內有其他的聲音出現這個也會有彼此制衡這也是我們在過去行動上面我們在不管是在聽證啊等等之類我們所看到的這個現象那這件事情也必須拜託外交部要繼續維持因為我們維持對我們友好的聲音不管在官僚體系還是在國會議員裡面真的是非常的重要因為他們適時的才會站出來然後他們適時的來對這個時局發表他們的見解這個對我們來說是重要的"},{"start":3557.549,"end":3564.143,"text":"那因為時間的關係我接下來有一個問題我是想要問陸委會問陸委會所以呢主席拜託 謝謝"},{"start":3576.154,"end":3601.071,"text":"因為就延續剛剛的這個話題就是說川普他們在離開的時候他們其實有把這個中國贈送的東西可能就先放到一邊去嘛對不對因為這怕會有相關的疑慮那我們的這一個就是我們現在所面臨的我有看到就是在五月的時候呢又有新聞講說我們有基層公務員赴中的時候這個中共國安闖飯店的這個盤查"},{"start":3602.792,"end":3623.733,"text":"那委會目前的統計從2024年1月一直到現在台灣民眾腹中失蹤的啦流置盤查的啦越來越多然後我們因為也有公務員會過去嘛那我們公務員過去的時候呢他如果拿了什麼東西等等之類的像美方你看現在對這種事情非常的注重那我相信因為我們腹中是要報備嘛"},{"start":3624.494,"end":3647.173,"text":"那報備的時候連省會都會提醒相關的風險但是你看就算有一些風險公務員這邊我們可能可以掌握但民眾有時候沒辦法因為民眾現在我們即使告訴他了他也不一定有有時候他可能就這樣看過去而已他可能沒有注意所以現在目前針對這件事情兩塊一塊針對公務員的部分一塊針對一般民眾的部分陸委會目前的作為有什麼"},{"start":3647.913,"end":3662.604,"text":"首先還是要跟委員報告大的前提我們還是呼籲全體國人非必要請勿前往中國大陸那如果說因為公務而必須要前往的話比如說APEC今年在中國召開那我們前陣子這個我們的政務委員也已經過去開會像這個在行前"},{"start":3662.984,"end":3679.52,"text":"公務的這個部分的話在行前我們跟相關部會包含像外交部包含像是這個抒發部我們都會針對資安的部分人身安全的這個部分來提出一些風險的警示還有必須要注意的這個事項那如果是一般國人他有公務員的身份他在出發前確實是要先經過聯審會的同意要經過相關部會的同意"},{"start":3681.502,"end":3706.765,"text":"那一般民眾的話有可能是旅遊啦商務啦他可能出發的時候甚至是不需要經過任何跟政府部門的報備那我們只能夠用呼籲的方式用提醒的方式所以我們也不斷的用各種管道來提醒國人一方面附路的這個風險資安人身風險都不斷的在提高驚飛喜比第二個部分的話就是我們也希望國人在出發前能夠稍微能夠上網來去做一個這個登錄能夠讓國家能夠確保他們在中國大陸的一個行蹤"},{"start":3707.866,"end":3725.526,"text":"對,而且現在就是像我們的民意代表,民意代表也會有跑去中國,那民意代表跑去中國的話,那現在他不用經過聯審,但是呢其實他非常需要知道相關的風險,我自己在這邊我遇到非常多人,大家對資安的概念看起來都我覺得不是那麼的熟悉。"},{"start":3725.926,"end":3745.815,"text":"所以這方面可能還是要請陸委會幫幫忙我之前提的法案到現在沒有過那也沒辦法但是就至少在行政措施上面我們能夠做什麼事情至少讓我們的民意代表在去的時候都能夠熟知相關的風險不只是資安的風險而已他見到哪些人這個人的層級是什麼他的這個層級的風險以前發生過哪些我真的覺得他們是需要知道的"},{"start":3746.415,"end":3756.422,"text":"謝謝委員提醒所以也非常希望大院能夠支持我們的文宣費讓更多的國人知道現在兩岸關係的一個情況還有婦奴應該要注意的人身安全資訊安全的風險謝謝感謝副主委謝謝主席兩委員的諮詢下面請陳俊宇委員諮詢"},{"start":3774.244,"end":3796.459,"text":"好,謝謝主席,我們有請家榮部長來,部長有請部長早委員長這次川普訪中,已經時隔九年了,再次踏上中國的訪問行程那兩國人所在峰會過程裡面,備受整個國際的一個矚目"},{"start":3799.221,"end":3824.043,"text":"我想我們在這個會前就大概了解到他們雙方的一個經貿合作應該會是會中所要關切的一個議題那根據白宮所發布的事實清單跟中方的這個聲明在這一次峰會也確實達成了一些共識在經貿上雙方同意設立這個貿易委員會還有投資的委員會那中方也承諾要購置200架"},{"start":3825.064,"end":3849.93,"text":"的這個波音飛機還有真垢農產品等等但是並沒有放寬這個稀土管制那在這個兩國的關係上中方則是主張建立一個建設性戰略穩定的一個關係那我想請教部長就是本次的這個川習會所達成的具體成果或承諾與我方會前所預判的結果會有什麼差異那其中對於所謂的"},{"start":3851.27,"end":3877.367,"text":"建設性的戰略穩定關係部長的理解又是什麼報告委員因為中共企圖不斷的改變現狀包括要突破第一島鏈能夠在太平洋成為跟美國抗衡的強權這個就像美國他們的國防或安全報告提到是步步進逼的威脅"},{"start":3878.464,"end":3897.346,"text":"那Rupert這個國務卿也提到其實中共的對外擴張不是只有針對台灣是整個全球性的在擴張所以企圖把這個美中的關係好像定位是台灣是一個要被談的問題其實這是錯的其實是中國"},{"start":3898.928,"end":3923.946,"text":"因為要改變現狀甚至是以武力跟脅迫的方式所以在全世界尤其包括美國跟他的友盟怎麼樣共同來管理威權擴張的中國問題是這個樣子不要用稻草人假議題把它變成任何其他的什麼論我覺得回過頭來看美中所謂的戰略穩定關係是要穩定中國這個不穩定的因素"},{"start":3925.507,"end":3950.044,"text":"可是還是一個戰略競爭的關係而且是根本上所謂的步步進逼的威脅這個層次的問題是全球性當然台海的和平穩定很重要不要成為讓中共找到藉口去用武力來改變現狀所以這個才會得出說和平要靠實力而實力必須靠嚇阻嚇阻不成必須要打敗中共"},{"start":3951.025,"end":3974.356,"text":"的威權擴張這邏輯是這個樣子啊當然因為元首外交嘛總是要禮尚往來嘛因為又面子問題嘛又有各取所需可是我們在看這個事情不能陷入到見數不見理大的格局我們要了解那台美的關係是建立在制度性的基礎上包括台灣關係法六項保證以及我們"},{"start":3975.436,"end":3996.959,"text":"得到了美國包括行政國會部門還有這個跨黨派的支持所以我們是說要關心但不用過度擔心而這個事情因為還在發展中因為涉及到美國對台軍售那其實這個美國的對台軍售是以台灣關係法為基礎而台灣關係法的基礎是以和平的手段解決爭議"},{"start":3998.34,"end":4018.909,"text":"那要維持台海的這個和平也就是要維護現狀是因為現狀在被中共武力跟脅迫來迫害所以我們大家必須來共同管理中國所以這個所謂的穩定所謂的美中關係不是說要建立一個建設性的戰略關係是要用建設性方法來穩定中國這個要改變現況"},{"start":4021.651,"end":4029.697,"text":"所以我是覺得大家在談的時候不要陷入到細節而且即使陷入到所謂川普總統的談判風格但是他很清楚講對台政策不變"},{"start":4034.846,"end":4054.756,"text":"那麼這一個反對以武力或脅迫的方式去改變現狀那至於說台灣關係法的規定裡面對台的軍售這有它法律跟政策還有它的憲政運作的基礎在那裡那我們當然對美的工作不管外交或國安部門我們都是做好"},{"start":4055.356,"end":4073.938,"text":"事前的各種的預防發生一些可能有傷害我們國家的一些結果但是然後在市中密切的觀察然後更因應而在事後因為它還在持續發展中尤其是對台軍售的問題"},{"start":4074.939,"end":4089.424,"text":"這個也會牽動出來大家去更關心台灣在這裡面台海和平穩定靠的是美國對台的一個承諾事實上也是對他自己國家利益的一個立場"},{"start":4095.236,"end":4116.731,"text":"另外就是大家所關注的,川普總統也釋出說有可能會跟賴總統來談論相關的對台軍售的議題雖然顯示台美之間的溝通管道算是暢通,但是由川普所主導的這場對話可能也會充滿許多的挑戰,我們必須做好相關的充分的準備"},{"start":4117.512,"end":4133.088,"text":"那我想就中國外交部已經一如既往的表達嚴正的反對我們也研判中方可能會採取什麼樣的一個手段依據什麼樣的一個理由來阻止台美官方之間的這個接觸這個部分部長"},{"start":4134.889,"end":4162.218,"text":"首先就像我們賴總統有表達當然我們是歡迎台美的國家元首能夠就關切的問題來討論因為中共長期就是要矮化台灣它對於台灣跟全世界來往它就是阻止但你也看到其實在川習會的時候中國也有求於美國在談很多跟對海軍售的問題"},{"start":4163.478,"end":4189.972,"text":"所以他企圖把台海的問題內政化可是現在也逐漸的國際化這個是有兩面的發展對他也是有好有壞那麼對於說這個有關於後續這個對台的就是電話的問題我們當然是就是做好準備我也相信中共會施壓這也創造出另外一個議題"},{"start":4191.493,"end":4208.361,"text":"這個也就是川普總統的特殊風格那這時候這個其實在對台軍售的這個問題上面其實又多出了一個變數這個是我想影響是雙方面的甚至是多方面的我們也是要很密切的關注跟非常謹慎的來因應"},{"start":4210.202,"end":4223.806,"text":"好,那我們也知道說這個往後的在今年的部分,川習會應該還有三次見面的機會就包括這個九月的習近平在回訪華府,那還有十一月的APEC會議,還有十二月的G20的這幾個時間點"},{"start":4226.107,"end":4254.417,"text":"那我想請教部長就研判後續這三次的會晤鋪陳的主軸會是什麼那外交部又會採取什麼樣具體主動的這個作為來確保我們台灣的主權這個主體性的利益那另外我們賴總統是否有可能在九月前我們出訪中南美洲並過境美國或是部長您是否有規劃近期會親自這個訪問美國像美方的這個國安及國會高層來進行相關的溝通"},{"start":4257.869,"end":4282.636,"text":"當然如果川習再會 這個我們元首的高峰會這個我們都是覺得這個是影響是會很重大一定是這個要做好各種的準備跟因應不過我想這個持續這個所謂的川習不管是另外三次的會面那美中和美中自己的問題要解決"},{"start":4284.056,"end":4296.211,"text":"那這個陳儒美國在台協會這個鼓勵人處長講其實穩定的美中關係和強健的這一個美台夥伴關係並不衝突這個也就是我們不希望"},{"start":4297.253,"end":4316.824,"text":"美台的關係都是被中國所制約美中跟美台是可以平行發展關係那這個就是我們這幾年努力的結果也是希望繼續能夠確保那至於說在談判的時候我想美國是基於自己的國家利益出發我們跟他的利益如果高度一致犧牲台灣也是犧牲美國的利益啦"},{"start":4317.364,"end":4341.372,"text":"其實這是最根本外交上我想我們跟美國要成為一個就是說在不管價值上或者是說這個利益上的一個一種同盟或者是一種夥伴的關係那至於說出訪這個友邦或過境美國這個都是行之有年那我想這個也是很自然會發展的事情"},{"start":4345.56,"end":4365.715,"text":"那不管我們美中、我們美台的相關關係未來的走向是什麼樣的一個挑戰我也請我們外交部持續的來觀測讓我們國家的相關利益不被損壞我想這是我們大家所期待的一個目標對,我們一起來努力謝謝,謝謝部長"},{"start":4368.623,"end":4387.879,"text":"好謝謝陳俊宇委員的諮詢部長請回下一位我們請陳永康委員諮詢好主席有請外交部林部長林部長有請"},{"start":4397.112,"end":4402.937,"text":"我今天把您的報告內容稍微用一點方法論去判斷美中之間談到的問題"},{"start":4410.743,"end":4431.47,"text":"习近平提出建设性战略稳定关系美方也根据这个英文论述强调维护台海和平是美方中间的最大公约数就这点来看的话台湾的立场越行重要我们从他两个照片中间谈判的角度"},{"start":4432.836,"end":4458.957,"text":"习近平这次是姿态高川普呢是比较低调习近平坐姿显自信语音胜平时台湾核心论沟通表格局两强必显说美中可双赢那么川普呢是坐姿比较低调语音啊有高有低他是闭的门谈台湾问题沟通呢展现他的视野他是两强互利论美中可双赢那我们在右边看到一个"},{"start":4460.463,"end":4486.257,"text":"國際的情勢國際政治上常常是虛實調整但是就您剛剛講的從地緣政治但是它帶動了地緣經濟影響了地緣戰略所以產業經濟要務實國家實力靠整合談判要發揮的任實力那博弈的層次我們把它區分了外交政策國防政策事實上在國際事務國際情勢國防外交是內外一體兩面的"},{"start":4487.418,"end":4510.606,"text":"就外交的層次看 國際歧視風險增高所以是履險 順險 你要面對情勢 忌險 調和頂賴 最後排除險這是外交最大的角色那國防政策上就是有這個實力 必戰 勝戰 能戰 止戰那川普講了 歡迎9月24號 不管是白宮 海滬山莊 我們再下一盤好棋"},{"start":4511.99,"end":4536.081,"text":"縱橫百合不同棋局台灣的問題是互信起點就顯示的我們的重要性那這個重要性啊要是怎麼顯示呢美方關切的中方的紅線我們的立場我講我們的立場就是維持現況強化自我防衛強化國際的溝通那下面呢有幾個因素啊最大公約數"},{"start":4538.016,"end":4558.37,"text":"實力的博弈互信的建立戰略的定位那在這次談判的過程中間我們並不是別人的籌碼因為你影響到中美雙方他們自己關切的利益而不是說他們做交換而是說我越自我肯定越建立堅強的"},{"start":4560.694,"end":4582.438,"text":"地缘经济地缘战略的角色反方向来影响地缘政治所以不要悲观但也不能乐观那刚才啊部长讲了很多就是我们要如何因应我这边提出一个就是建议就是如何运营如果"},{"start":4583.629,"end":4598.32,"text":"而不是事情發生的做反應而是事前之前我們在策略上面怎麼做預應假設9月24號他們談的比較好有互動那麼就是建設性戰略穩定關係會變成建設性"},{"start":4606.159,"end":4629.133,"text":"穩定戰略協作關係 這個是中共很喜歡用的如果談得更好 下回他就是深化型他這個對全世界所有的國家都有這個不同的名詞但是這裡面呢 看他互利的關係所以在這種情況下 就是說第一個我們國內的經濟情況要穩定第二個就是美國對台的軍售"},{"start":4630.134,"end":4642.911,"text":"它是一个政策问题但是经过这一次过程中间我们发现了一些产生的不同的解释这个是美国国务院公布对财军售项目从去年就开始"},{"start":4644.668,"end":4667.393,"text":"國務院公佈的全部是針對以TACRO的名義就是我們駐美代表處的名義公佈的項目但他公佈項目的時間跟國防部底下現在叫戰爭部的DSEA就是安和局公佈的時間上有不同那麼安和局公佈了去年我們在全球的42個"},{"start":4669.69,"end":4696.87,"text":"军售FMS的国家里面我们排名第一安和局公布的数字是114亿但是传到我们国内显示也许因为时间差我们国防部公布是111亿美金但是在42个国家中间我们排名第一那么进入了今年2026目前已经跟美国签订发价书的国家"},{"start":4697.85,"end":4706.563,"text":"那么在有22个国家目前我们台湾还没进入因为我们要等着看第二阶段的所谓的这个发驾书核实到"},{"start":4707.998,"end":4736.098,"text":"但是從這張圖各位看美國已經產生了一個就是因為他國防產業面對的就是美國在全球因應局部衝突地緣衝突他的軍備他的消耗量已經大幅提升他的產能跟庫儲已經補足所以他現在在這個國會裡面顯示出來他除了有這個軍售以外他已經強調DCS就直接商售"},{"start":4737.253,"end":4743.887,"text":"直接商售也是美國國外對外軍援但是就不透過國防部還是由"},{"start":4744.69,"end":4772.948,"text":"国务院跟国会通过他的出出取可将来DCS很可能是我们面对一个选项在军售产能降低他的交货时间不足所以他会另辟一条路直接商售那就是由美国的国防产业可以正式直接对我们的end user或是国内或者像中科院甚至是代理商所以他有个平行处理的图"},{"start":4774.946,"end":4801.106,"text":"最後您看一張這是在去年的這個11月7號就戰爭部他公佈了一封信這封信的內容實際上就是解釋美國現在的FMS已經面臨到很多的不同的挑戰國際情勢國內產能所以他開始解釋Direct commercial saleDCS的重要性"},{"start":4802.148,"end":4827.89,"text":"但是因為我們國內對DCS都變成叫做商購其實軍購包括FMS軍售包括FMA軍援包括FMF就是美國的這個融資甚至總統的PDA再加上DCS這都是軍購軍購裡面再包括直接商售那這封內容的信我到時候提供"},{"start":4829.491,"end":4844.161,"text":"您這邊做參考但是我們找到一個最後句話國防部的戰略思維從政策導向轉為執行與產能導向過去的安全合作如軍售高度重視外交政治考量但是面臨"},{"start":4845.898,"end":4860.716,"text":"龐大的国防军品的这个积压订单已经超过一兆美元了他意识到了交付速度是维持猛游的一个关键才是执行机构现在移交给这个undersecretary of war"},{"start":4861.557,"end":4885.297,"text":"显示美国军售瓶颈已经不是单纯的政治问题可能是要跟国防产业供应链共同解决这个对美国内部来讲他正好找个理由转移所以我们不要看这个军售的这个往后是不是pending或是停止他会找另外一个途径来做解套那么这点我请部长您做一点回应"},{"start":4886.658,"end":4899.705,"text":"非常感謝委員詳細的說明因為委員派駐過美國我想對於這個軍售議題應該是最最有權威的專家所以去區別不管是FMA FNF FN這個"},{"start":4904.383,"end":4925.917,"text":"就是S包括DCS這些都非常重要因為這個大量化的生產因為如果戰爭會耗損武器跟彈藥等等所以這一方面包括其實美台的關係也在這個方面必須有這一軌也就是所謂的商購的部分而且越來越重要因為速度跟它的這個數量"},{"start":4927.518,"end":4953.839,"text":"那再來就是說不管是我們當然美台之間是不是會納入到包括PIPIR印太這個整個工業韌性這個供應鏈還有包括COCO是不是可以共同的這個來研發跟製造還有涉及到這都涉及到其實川普總統的這個印太戰略跟對台政策這包括責任分擔因為責任的分擔不完全只是來自於國防預算"},{"start":4954.7,"end":4982.017,"text":"我們自主防衛的能力的提升 國防的改革全社會防疫韌性 兵役制度的延長另外也包括其實在第一島鏈整個符合印太戰略裡面台灣的角色這都牽一髮動全身這是整個地緣政治不是只有單邊的所謂的美台或是說美中關係所以我想委員提到了這一軌的重要性越來越增加那也是會釋放出未來我想在我們台灣"},{"start":4983.658,"end":4992.603,"text":"這個軍事採購上面多了一個更大的彈性那速度也會更快那我們必須做好準備以因應這個新的這樣的一個發展"},{"start":5014.831,"end":5017.335,"text":"接下來請劉許廷委員上台質詢謝主席 國安局長有請有請國安局長"},{"start":5031.906,"end":5051.514,"text":"好 謝謝主席喔 劉委員早這 局長早安啦這今天針對川喜會會前會後的一些國際局勢的一些變化一些題目 救教這本期的質詢大概分兩大部分啦一個叫做事前的判斷 另外一個叫事後的分析嘛那事前的判斷當然跟國安局密切相關因為喔 這個重大國際事件的"},{"start":5052.154,"end":5070.945,"text":"前因後果,變遷,中間我們是否掌握了情報,得以做出合宜的回應等等,其實跟國安局的業務是密切相關所以事前的判斷這一部分,雖然已經發生了,但是不管怎麼樣我們總是要重新復盤一下,讓國人更清楚這事情的來龍去脈"},{"start":5072.706,"end":5099.6,"text":"這位局長我們當初在審查國防特別條例的時候這個大家都在尤其在野黨都非常關注所謂的第二波發架數到底能不能準時的到來如果能夠準時的到來其實在條例審查的時候它其實會省去很多不必要的麻煩跟不必要的這個爭辯對不對那當初我們在詢問各個政府單位中華民國各級政府單位包含國防部外交部國安局等等跟這個特別條例有關係的所有單位大家在討論"},{"start":5101.501,"end":5121.291,"text":"第二波的發價數會不會準時到來的時候幾乎所有的政府機關啊雖然沒有辦法百分之百掛保證但是或多或少都講非常有信心基於台美之間長期以來的默契跟密切的關係基於需求等等地緣戰略第一島鏈各式各樣的名詞都有啦但簡單來說就是大家都覺得這個事情會成那"},{"start":5125.199,"end":5140.189,"text":"但是到了最後就是不幸就看起來現在是很不確定的狀態而且慢慢好像往對我方並不是特別有利的狀況去走這個我很擔心我們的政府在這個過程之中出現情勢誤判的問題我就直接問國安局長這個問題"},{"start":5142.19,"end":5171.139,"text":"就是說川普總統在這個川習會之後在接受專訪的時候他也不演了直接講說這就是談判籌碼的一部分等等前面其實也有媒體披露這個第二波發架書沒有辦法如期來很大一層面跟川習會是密切相關的有媒體的分析也有事後啊川普總統親自的證實也好或者是明確的表態也好我就問一件事這國安局在整個過程之中你們對於第二波發架書的掌握跟分析狀況是什麼你簡單說明一下"},{"start":5172.139,"end":5188.303,"text":"好 謝謝委員的提問我想基本上我們在看川習會可以感受到那個資訊非常的分雜那不過我想在分析過程當中還是要理清楚幾個問題第一個哪一些是美國對台的長期的政策既定的政策那第二個哪一些是美國的外交指令"},{"start":5188.743,"end":5201.988,"text":"那第三個哪一些是美國總統他可能在隨訪採訪過程當中他即席的談話或發言我想要把它弄清楚那委員比較關切的是美國對台的軍售的一個狀況那這部分我想委員應該也注意到包括美國的"},{"start":5203.66,"end":5227.849,"text":"國務院還有國防部都說明了這部分的政策並沒有做任何改變那甚至國務院還說相關的軍售案應該在短期內會有相關的決定那我也了解在整個台美軍售的一個協商過程當中美方跟我們的國防部門他是有一個非常緊密的一個磋商那當然現在進入到一個國會或是總統一個批核的一個過程那這部分我們尊重美方的一個處理的進度尊重美方的判斷因為他還在處理"},{"start":5228.909,"end":5243.95,"text":"你剛剛講了幾個層面 其實大家都事後分析 這沒有關係你講大概方向上我們都了解 報告裡也寫得非常的清楚但我要問的其實是事前嘛就是說在審議的過程 在這個東西被媒體揭露有可能不來的時候國安局當初對於情報那時候的掌握 你做了哪些事情"},{"start":5244.571,"end":5267.029,"text":"你有沒有去想辦法去核實這件事情或者是在某一些的管道去取得一定的保證然後讓整個中華民國政府體系在回答這些問題的時候是有底氣的你當初你做了些什麼對 基本上那個台海的核穩他關係到的是全球的安全跟繁榮那也因為台灣在印太地區是一個非常重要的行為者也是利害相關者所以我們跟美國之間對於相關的議題不管是國安"},{"start":5267.89,"end":5292.686,"text":"外交、外貿、國防都有各種管道的聯繫非常好那我就問現在川普總統不管是事後這個川習會之後的訪問講出來說這可能就是籌碼對不對姑且不講他是不是外交辭令但是我想請問國安局在這樣子的消息明確化、檯面化之前我們有沒有從各個不同的管道得到事先的召會跟招呼"},{"start":5293.627,"end":5318.481,"text":"基本上就像剛剛講的台美之間的溝通很順暢我們剛剛舉的例子是美國總統在採訪過程當中他提起的一個說法我特別跟委員說明的是那個採訪是發生在3月15號的早上當川普總統還在北京的一個時間點可是委員可能也注意到等到他登基之後他的相關談話他又有做了一些相關的調整這也是為什麼我剛剛在委員"},{"start":5319.561,"end":5339.756,"text":"說明的過程當中特別提到的可能要提清楚哪些是長期既定政策你可以認定他是外交指令沒關係我再問好這個美國的這個海軍代理部長的朝鴻或者是有一個叫高雄對不對在聽證會上去談說暫緩當然他理由講說是美伊戰爭等等一樣啊我們事前有沒有得到你有沒有事前掌握任何的訊息或情報"},{"start":5340.516,"end":5355.098,"text":"說有可能會發生這樣的事我跟各位說明一下因為他談話之後國務院就出來說明到說相關的政策立場還有對台軍事說沒有改變所以可能這一部分我剛剛在跟各位提醒的是美國在一個審議或批核過程當中我們還是尊重他在過程當中的一些決策"},{"start":5356.42,"end":5380.178,"text":"但川習會這整件事情前提啊看起來有可能誤判因為這次都還沒有最後落板對不對我們誰講一定會怎麼樣都還太嫌武斷這本席絕對願意去理解也願意給局長一定的空間但是我要提醒啊我一定還是要醜話要說在前頭萬一這件事情真的沒有落地的時候那表示我們的整個情報系統也好或者怎麼樣可能出現了比較嚴重的誤判或者是有可能所謂的漏洞如果美方跟我們"},{"start":5380.598,"end":5406.357,"text":"到最後真的他要做這樣的決策的時候如果連招呼都沒有打的時候那我想對於台美關係來講也是一個很重大的挫敗我請國安局長做好準備因為你剛剛講外交辭令這一點本席非常理解在外交本來虛虛實實對不對但是他是用外交辭令對中國大陸那是一種做法對不對大家當然希望是這樣對不對本質不變嘛但是應付中國大陸這是你們報告裡面也都希望是走這個走向但萬一他拿外交辭令他是應付中華民國的"},{"start":5407.378,"end":5425.34,"text":"本市一定擔心這事 我也一定要當烏鴉把這事情講出來啦好 沒關係 這事還有發展 但我希望局長一定要請盡你所有的力量 國安的整體系統在情資的預先收集啊要清楚啊 不要讓我們陷入被動更不可以啊 就隨隨便便就被人家"},{"start":5426.301,"end":5454.634,"text":"賣了然後還自己不曉得我真的很擔心這個事也跟委員再補充說明一下也就是說事實上台美的一個軍售它涉及到的一個最核心的問題還是在於說台灣自己怎麼樣來因應中共的一個軍力的脅迫還有軍事的擴張那這部分大概四個重點我大概一分鐘簡單說明一下沒有時間我還要問外交部長沒關係的先這樣我就講後續的工作持續要努力要小心提防各式各樣的風險預先掌握我們政府才有時間做預先判斷好不好謝謝國安局長請問外交部長有請"},{"start":5455.718,"end":5456.342,"text":"好 請外交部長"},{"start":5460.56,"end":5489.438,"text":"委員好那來這事後的分析啊這剛剛我聽部長我就直接用你回答過的話來接著問你你講說這個所謂的戰略穩定框架對不對是為了要穩定中美的雙邊關係嘛為了要管控相關的一個風險對不對所以你認為是用這樣的方式你也講同時啊台美之間有非常穩定的這樣子的一個制度性基礎嘛基本上是你對川習會會後釋出訊息的一個姑且講的是一個定調吧那但我是"},{"start":5490.543,"end":5517.509,"text":"有點擔心一樣我這個剛國安局長詢問的時候你也有聽嘛對不對我們的報告裡不管是外交部的報告或國安局的報告都講說這個恐怕只是為了穩定關係降低衝突所以講一些花言巧語實際上都不會有任何的一個改變也講啊這個川習會完之後因為沒有白紙黑字的協定啊對不對也沒有明確的口頭承諾甚至有點各說各話的這個味道在所以啊沒事沒事一切照舊啊這是你們目前的判斷嗎"},{"start":5518.334,"end":5542.922,"text":"因為事情在發展中我們要密切的關注跟審慎的因應沒有一切造就只是它的驅動的影響是多方面的我們不要只看一面很好我就希望部長是用務實的處理這些事情這件事情跟黨派意識形態沒有任何關係但我們整個上到政府體系下到社會大眾不可以因為自己的主觀想法而讓情勢產生錯判這是第二第二個我要問的是這個"},{"start":5544.302,"end":5561.869,"text":"當初啊講說明面上我舉個例子支撐我剛剛的說法剛剛明面上川崎會員確實沒有立即簽協議跟任何承諾但有些事情就很可怕而且細思極恐比如說5月21號就是我剛剛講這個海軍代理部長去講說軍售可能要暫緩這樣的一個同時啊中國大陸商務部做了什麼事部長你有掌握到嗎"},{"start":5562.609,"end":5585.054,"text":"我們都有跟美方保持密切的溝通那他們公開或者是對我們的說明都清楚這位所謂代理海軍部長不是政策的決定者而且包括戰爭部長也提到其實他們中東的庫存是夠的這跟台海之間包括對台的軍售是沒有關係這國務院的立場也是我今天講外交事情的前提是前面他在聽政會講"},{"start":5585.814,"end":5612.632,"text":"可能會暫緩對不對當然國務院要跑不快沒有沒有他有提到說是需要由戰爭部長跟國務卿來做他們決定對啊戰爭部長國務卿恐怕也會他們已經說話了也很在乎戰爭部跟國務院都有說話如果他們也講了對不對說沒有彈藥的問題那應該趕快批准啦對不對但是事實上就是沒有批准嘛當然這就有很多無限的想像空間跟可能性尤其是當川普講他是談判籌碼的時候我要提醒部長的是這樣每件事情都不能只看表面啦"},{"start":5612.972,"end":5630.33,"text":"因為他講完之後中國大陸商務部當天下午的新聞就是農產品的雙向貿易要創造有利條件要共同納入降稅結構換言之川習會也許沒有在第一時間公布相當的承諾或利多但他有可能後面是有案盤或者是後續互相觀察然後逐步出台"},{"start":5630.971,"end":5645.308,"text":"那逐步出台的時候就表示中間彼此之間雙方在談判條件上的各種具體的行為就會成為這些承諾會不會端出檯面很重要的變數所以這件事情並沒有結束而是正在進行中"},{"start":5646.57,"end":5663.131,"text":"剛剛部長也講台美關係非常的穩固而且是有制度化來做支撐本席非常同意但問題是當川普總統講說這是很好的籌碼我還沒有決定軍售第二波發價書的時候尤其在川習會中國大陸表態對這件事情高度關注的時候請問他算不算打破了六項承諾部長請問一下"},{"start":5665.835,"end":5684.585,"text":"美方的說明說並沒有就是他們對台政策不變而且我想委員指出了一點其實就是說是中共在改變現狀的時候這樣怎麼樣能夠再平衡其實美中所謂要建立戰略性的穩定關係就是要穩定這個不穩定的因素"},{"start":5685.285,"end":5711.657,"text":"那戰術當然可能是靈活所以剛剛我想不管是從美台的這個關係比較政策面到以法律為基礎到屬於在戰術上那麼因為這個談判的過程很多議題都會提出來放在談判桌上可是最後美中有美中要解決的問題但是到目前為止就是美方對外公開或是私底下跟我們的溝通都很明確對台政策並沒有改變第二個"},{"start":5713.058,"end":5724.907,"text":"就是維持台灣和平穩定符合大家的利益第三個很重要其實是中共實際上在破壞這個現狀我們必須再平衡那至於怎麼做能夠有效的這個來"},{"start":5726.943,"end":5745.029,"text":"避免出現一些意外或者是說可能因為中共的擴張而產生了一些軍事上的衝突這個是我想美國跟他的友盟包括台灣我們必須共同來一起就是整體上有一個戰略上的因應"},{"start":5748.03,"end":5763.821,"text":"責任的分擔部長今天的回答算蠻務實的就我尤其欣賞你一開始第一回答第二問題講說沒有什麼是絕對是怎麼樣的這是很重要的這樣子的概念啊務實的面對這本來就是中華民國要共同面對到社會大眾都要往這個方向來做思考您剛剛有提到啊這"},{"start":5764.642,"end":5789,"text":"他有戰略的層面有戰術的層面對不對有外交的一個層面就如同我剛剛提醒這個國安局局長的這個外交辭令你可以講說他是為了要管控中美雙方的風險所以他可以說一套做一套但同時你也不能否定啊這風險是為了促進他中美雙方他把這個東西放在前面啊然後對台灣是用外交辭令來糊弄這是危險的事情所以一樣啊"},{"start":5789.36,"end":5818.423,"text":"今天不管是國安局局長也好或者是外交部部長也好請善用你們所有的各項管道要精準的判斷局勢而且要清楚的告訴社會大眾現在的國際局勢真的空前軌訣啊這個無關黨派意識形態而是面對空前軌訣的時候大家都要保持靈活跟隨時應變的能力我想大家朝野之間慢慢有這樣的共識的時候以後的國防外交這樣的問題才不會被過度的政治化處理這樣對中華民國才是有利的啊希望部長跟局長可以繼續努力好嗎好 謝謝委員辛苦了"},{"start":5822.512,"end":5846.306,"text":"謝謝牛委員我們接下來請林楚英委員上台質詢謝謝主席主席有請國安局蔡局長林佳龍部長還有我們陸委會的省副主委不好意思因為題目可能跟三位都有關我們局長部長以及陸委會"},{"start":5847.506,"end":5865.62,"text":"好 剛剛其實我想不論是朝野的委員都在關注就是對美軍購的部分但是我想這個部分最清楚的還是美國很清楚的強調那就是希望維護台海的穩定那麼誰到底才是台海現狀的破壞者在23號的時候我們的國安會秘書長"},{"start":5871.625,"end":5896.966,"text":"吳釗燮秘書長很罕見的居然在X上面公佈了就是中國在近日在第一島鏈增強了100艘左右的船艦的部署而這個部署到底是不是屬於台海的狀況危機升溫而誰破壞了這樣的一個台海之間的穩定我想透過這個圖片部署我想是非常清楚的"},{"start":5897.506,"end":5918.895,"text":"但是海巡署也說了就是在這樣的過程當中確實這個船艦是逐步增加那我想先請就是國安局蔡局長來回應一下這樣的一個做法跟這樣的一個公佈過去我們其實常在諮詢台上說過很多的危險危機其實是要讓國人知道"},{"start":5919.315,"end":5948.353,"text":"尤其是這個星期六跟星期天分別有兩場全民挺軍鬥這樣的一個人民走上街頭展現想要防衛台灣的決心所以是不是剛好符合了就是其實全台灣民眾都知道國家安全現在是面對中國的威脅那麼請問一下這樣的一個第一島鏈的狀況是不是在川習會之後反而"},{"start":5949.173,"end":5976.998,"text":"中國現在持續的給一個下馬威那麼它代表的是什麼樣的意涵我想中國對區域安全跟和平穩定的威脅它是長期性的那我們剛好提到它在東海台海跟南海相關的一個建基的動態也越來越頻密那國安會有相關資訊的釋出大概說明的是中共不管是海軍的船艦或海警的船艦現階段在周邊水域的活動是非常的頻繁那剛好也配合到"},{"start":5977.518,"end":5998.878,"text":"目前的中共的航母遼寧號以及他的兩棲攻擊艦安徽號都在西太平洋做演訓所以才會呈現出一個中共的一個軍事擴張的圖像那這部分也引起周邊國家高度關注那各位說明的是就應處這種中共的威脅跟擴張台灣大概最主要有幾個面向的工作要做第一個當然是推動我們的國防改革"},{"start":5999.378,"end":6024.439,"text":"那第二個就是去落實我們的全民防衛第三個是委員剛剛所提到非常非常重要的是國內的支持跟共識第四個就是爭取國際友盟的支持而其中當中最重要的就是國內的支持跟共識因為假如有國內的支持跟共識不管是在國防預算的投資或軍購案的一個通過的話那它才有辦法讓其他的另外三個支柱包括國防改革、全民防衛以及爭取友盟支持不會出現任何的衝動"},{"start":6025.168,"end":6040.108,"text":"好所以局長你來看喔就是因為現在我們的國防預算就是在商購跟偽製的部分被砍掉了那麼如果是這樣的話因應第一島鏈的升溫甚至於等一下我會談到第二島鏈有關於日本都要修正他們的安保三文件的時候那麼"},{"start":6041.91,"end":6056.018,"text":"砍掉的這4700億那對於我們台灣來講穩固第一島鏈甚至於拓展到人家第二島鏈都在擔心的時候它會造成哪些我們國安上面的危機甚至於整個區域安全穩定的影響"},{"start":6056.838,"end":6073.744,"text":"現在區域裡面大概印太有盟大家比較關切的還是怎麼樣來提升自己的一個國防防衛的一個力量那能夠來形成所謂的一種防衛主角的一個共同的一個態勢那在這部分不管是美國或是在印太的一個部署或是日本在國防"},{"start":6074.847,"end":6096.429,"text":"投資的那個挹注還有菲律賓在相關的一個武器裝備的採購事實上看起來的一個整個動向大概都是非常的積極那台灣在這部分也在第一島鏈的最核心的關鍵地位當然這部分也必須要有具體的行動否則可能會變成是自外或被孤立在整體的印太友盟的一個防衛架構體系之外那這部分我想也利用這個機會跟大家做特別的提醒"},{"start":6096.789,"end":6108.414,"text":"好謝謝局長那我要請一下沈友忠這個副主委這個林部長不好意思讓你站一下好那面對這個第一島鏈這樣的一個狀況跟危機就在這個吳釗燮秘書長PO出來之後那麼陸委會這邊所掌握的訊息到底"},{"start":6115.217,"end":6127.729,"text":"中共他的意圖是什麼是增加威嚇還是呼應就是說反正現在呢川普跟我談完了我也不在乎反正呢把這個所謂破壞者這個所謂的區域破壞者的這個帽子"},{"start":6132.373,"end":6145.109,"text":"戴在賴清德總統的頭上就好了包括在野黨也附和嘛就說你們買武器是不是就是要增加威脅增加挑釁那麼你怎麼來解讀中共在第一島鏈這種船艦增加的部署"},{"start":6145.796,"end":6171.261,"text":"其實我覺得中共對台的這個策略一直以來都沒有改變那就是用這個武力脅迫然後來逼迫台灣去接受它的一個政治上兩岸的一個終局的安排也就是一國兩制所以所有它對於台灣的一中敘事也好或者是在國際上面的一中敘事也好那麼用和平作為一手然後用武力脅迫作為另一手這些大概都是長期以來我們觀察到中共對台的一個情況只不過要特別跟委員強調就是說他現在看到的是說"},{"start":6171.921,"end":6193.543,"text":"他整個在第一島鏈的這個威脅已經不是只有針對台灣那同時也是在威懾包含像日本包含像菲律賓所以這一次的這個船艦的這個部署來講的話我們也有注意到譬如說他是在川習會後也不只是這一次的這個船艦那另外甚至還包含像是這個聯合戰備警巡都馬上的來召開那在去年的這個雙城論壇的時候甚至在隔一天也就進行了這個對台的這個軍事演習"},{"start":6195.265,"end":6218.227,"text":"所以我們清楚的看到其實中共現在對台灣的這種兩面手法在國際上面也是用這種兩面手法一方面自己想要塑造是一個和平的維護者二方面同時又在用這個武力來去脅迫周邊國家這些陸委會其實都是不斷的去強調然後也跟中共做出呼籲不要成為地緣政治的麻煩製造者應該要跟我們的民選政府來對話降低區域的緊張局勢才是一個大國應有的風範和負責任的作為"},{"start":6219.96,"end":6246.039,"text":"好 剛剛包括從蔡局長到到省副主委我想要請問的林部長就是其實為什麼我會特別問前面這樣的一個題目也許台灣在關心自己的同時也要看一下我們周邊的國家目前的狀況日本現在是嚴密要修訂它的保安三文書因為對於身處第二島鏈的日本來說他們現在感受到的不是台灣有事就是日本有事是"},{"start":6246.88,"end":6272.986,"text":"台灣面對中國的威脅這個日本也無法置身事外因為現在中國是把他的整個包括剛剛蔡局長也講到的中國的遼寧號、山東號整個航母已經在施壓第二島鏈所以對日本總理高士早苗來說他會覺得是整個太平洋地區都很危險那麼在這個時候呢如果日本要強化他的保安三文書的時候那麼外交部"},{"start":6273.966,"end":6290.668,"text":"面對這樣的訊息你怎麼來看那麼我們在跟日本的合作當中怎麼面對跟日本甚至於剛剛我們所講的非日軍國家來建立我們自己的除了國防自主之外在外交上面是不是有更多的合作"},{"start":6292.123,"end":6315.681,"text":"報告委員其實美國對中國做一個戰略競爭的挑戰者已經很清楚寫在他們的國家安全的報告就所謂步步進逼的威脅而在印太的地區我想面對中國其實這個已經不是兩岸的問題這是一個區域乃至國際的問題所以怎麼樣去"},{"start":6318.323,"end":6343.744,"text":"因為中共的建軍備戰武力擴張企圖改變在印太的現狀這已經是一個現在進行式所以對這個軍力的失衡是很清楚的那必須再平衡所以台灣扮演一個很重要的角色我們要守好我們這一壘那第一島鏈除了軍事安全要能夠和平靠實力要能夠有效嚇阻也要"},{"start":6344.725,"end":6370.357,"text":"預防萬一發生中共對外的武力侵略的時候大家能夠就是有一個軍事外交還有各方面的一個合作嘛其實這個所謂川普總統的責任分擔不只是國防預算要大家增強其實包括在未來的合作上包括所謂的單一戰區在第一島鏈所以我們台灣看這個問題不要被習近平騙了"},{"start":6371.317,"end":6387.105,"text":"他企圖動一個稻草人然後甩鍋說台灣是改變現狀全世界人都知道那Marco Rubio講得很清楚習近平不只是對台灣他對全這個印太地區他都在改變現狀只是說元首外交嘛總是要顧及彼此面子"},{"start":6388.145,"end":6403.635,"text":"但是事實上理智這個美中的問題他們有他們自己要談的但是美台的關係也就是說美國對台政策不變台海的和平穩定是我們共同的利益而破壞現狀的以武力跟脅迫改變是不能夠被接受的"},{"start":6404.255,"end":6432.187,"text":"因為這一個軍力已經失衡必須再平衡所以台灣關係法的基礎是建立在和平解決台海的這一些爭議當中共剛剛講的包括國安會包括我們得到的資料不斷的即使在川習會之後他們對台灣的威脅是有增無減這是事實因此我們不可能一廂情願我們必須要再平衡而這個時候我們就回到當然軍事上和平靠實力嘛"},{"start":6432.887,"end":6455.381,"text":"和外交上我們就是要大家能夠跟我們的有盟大家一起來做分工合作那某個程度也是責任分攤所以我覺得這個方面來看的話我們要知道這個大的格局跟單獨一次的所謂的這個元首峰會至於說元首峰會外面預期可能還有三次這也是某種程度"},{"start":6456.982,"end":6478.493,"text":"讓習近平進入到這樣的一個川普的局裡面那這個影響是兩面因為這也有可能會涉及跟台灣有關的利害那我們在台灣的國家利益我們必須要我們自己有主體性可是我們要知道敵我關係啦中共也不是只有威脅台灣中共是拿台灣問題來作為藉口作為建軍備戰威權擴張"},{"start":6481.734,"end":6502.971,"text":"這個包括日本 包括菲律賓都很清楚只是大家就像習近平講的所謂的休息底的陷阱這個崛起的強權挑戰一個既有的強權那這不是跟美國的國家安全戰略題的步步進逼的威脅完全一致啊所以在這個層次上我們要看到大的格局但是我們台灣絕對有自己的國家的立場"},{"start":6504.073,"end":6516.434,"text":"在這個外交上沒有所謂就是說別人會替我們完全這個捍衛我們的立場我們必須要堅持自己的國家利益主席我跟你再借最後的一分鐘就是我想請問蔡局長"},{"start":6517.697,"end":6538.109,"text":"跟沈主委,就是那麼對於日本的這樣的一個做法,是不是他也認為中國將是現在日本的重要威脅?而這個對於整個我們剛剛講到的區域安全,從第一島鏈到第二島鏈來講,中國確實就是一個不只威脅台灣,也威脅現在包括日本、菲律賓等其他的國家,而日本會做這樣的修正嗎?"},{"start":6539.329,"end":6561.663,"text":"剛剛我有提到日本正在修訂他的安保三文件目前大概所了解的資訊日本就是把中國的軍事擴張列為是最大的戰略挑戰我想這樣的立場在過去是比較沒有看到的這也涉及到在高市首相上台之後中共不斷的透過各種軍事的恫嚇的手段來威逼日本在涉台政策立場包括去年12月結合到俄國的空中聯巡來對日本施壓"},{"start":6563.004,"end":6574.087,"text":"我想這造成整個區域的核穩態勢造成一個非常嚴重的一個衝擊所以日本的感受非常的強烈我們會繼續注意到他相關方位政策調整的一個方向好 那麼省副主委呢"},{"start":6575.011,"end":6599.178,"text":"是 確實喔 其實不只是日本 我們也注意到這個美國跟菲律賓也有在進行這個所謂的肩並肩的演習喔那甚至東海 台海 南海 應該把它視為一體喔整個第一島鏈它這個威脅的這個目標絕對不是只有台灣那利用台灣來擴張它在整個第一島鏈 甚至進入到西太平洋的野心我們都非常的清楚 所以我們也會加強跟周邊國家包含日本 包含菲律賓 甚至包含像越南等等國家來進行相關議題的合作和交換"},{"start":6599.778,"end":6613.685,"text":"好 謝謝三位官員喔所以我想這個中國對於不只台灣啦這個是等於整個亞洲地區甚至於我第一第二島鏈的國家來講都是非常危險的我們自己真的是要先把自己有實力才能守護我們的和平 謝謝好 謝謝接下來請王安祥委員上台質詢"},{"start":6629.386,"end":6631.529,"text":"主席好 有請國安局蔡局長請蔡局長"},{"start":6638.561,"end":6662.537,"text":"局長早我想今天主要聚焦在川習會早上拿到了今天的專報的書面報告在專報的書面報告的第二頁裡面我看到有國安局做了一個表格我就從這幾個表格你們區分的幾個構面來跟局長就教第二頁那個部分第一個就是兩國關係看起來"},{"start":6665.458,"end":6680.268,"text":"兩國所發表聲明看起來都是他們要建立一個穩定的戰略關係看起來是一致的不過在報告裡面局長看到裡面我們的內容上看起來好像我們現在持的觀念還是他們的競爭態勢不變是不是局長可以論述一下"},{"start":6682.87,"end":6704.038,"text":"基本上他們雙邊的戰略的競爭關係我想上次的專報也跟委員說明過錯綜複雜不過雙方也有意來管理這樣的一個爭議避免衝突的全面化跟升高所以委員可以看到在這一次的川習會因為是今年度的第一次的川習會雙方有點像是在做一個輕喉嚨的動作來闡述彼此關切的對台灣來說會有什麼樣的影響就是他們這樣子的一個戰略關係"},{"start":6708.956,"end":6735.762,"text":"對我想大概有幾個部分第一個部分是有涉及到一些經貿投資工業院的議題那這一塊目前看起來美國的政策立場並沒有改變還是比較主張對一些高科技產品的一個管制到中國大陸去所以局長剛剛說已經這個表格的第二項因為你們的COME好像也是覺得他們那個經貿成果不如預期不過看起來那個樹木包含波音還有一些農產品我不知道這個會不會影響到"},{"start":6736.622,"end":6762.301,"text":"台北的關係 甚至我們這一次的一個軍購這還好 這最後還是涉及到美中雙邊的一個經貿議題的一個討論那我們會認為不如預期是事實上事前的研判美方是期待中共對於美國的波音科技採購可以到600架但後來只有200架而且這200架還是經過一個討價還價的一個過程那另外美國的一些高科技的企業到中國去這一次水團到中國訪問那也沒有達成一個比較具體的合作計畫"},{"start":6763.482,"end":6781.812,"text":"所以我們認為說在經貿上雖然雙方親喉嚨不斷的表達彼此的關切但達成的具體的成果是比較有限所以局長這個應該對於台北的關係來說對目前衝擊沒有那麼大不過上次也跟委員說明過因為今天還有後續的川西會所以我們還要再繼續來觀察那在地緣關係那一個共鳴裡面其實也看到這個荷姆斯很多人非常關切就是說不曉得荷姆斯海現在的一個狀況會不會影響到"},{"start":6792.377,"end":6814.368,"text":"這個中美甚至台美相關的一些關係你覺得很多人擔心是不是這個問題會變成一個談判的籌碼在這個問題上因為美國跟伊朗部分他透過巴基斯坦的一個溝通各種的一個停戰或談判的方案都能夠持續的來進行相關書面的討論那另外中共在美國對於"},{"start":6815.408,"end":6835.316,"text":"伊朗的問題立場並不太一樣我們剛剛在專報的口頭報告過程當中也說明了中俄他在這一次普丁訪問中國的期間他是去公開批評美國跟以色列對伊朗傭兵的一個動作認為是違反國際法所以我們可以看到美中在這個議題上目前並沒有一個一致的立場而美國也積極的在管理目前荷姆茲海峽航運安全的問題"},{"start":6835.996,"end":6858.886,"text":"所以肯委員注意到昨天包括川普總統本人跟國務卿盧比歐都有認為說目前的談判已經進入到最後的階段是是是那最後一個就那個表格上的涉台的部分這個非常特別啦這個大家看到川普總統出來在媒體或編輯裡面講了一堆可是他在他的聲明裡面並沒有看到這個我們我想非常多國人非常關心不曉得局長怎麼看這件事情"},{"start":6859.506,"end":6877.069,"text":"對我想我們會特別把那個美中官方聲明做一個對照最主要是白宮方面針對這次會談他的事實清單他的整理出來的相關的主要的重點跟中共的外交部跟商務部他新聞稿整理出來的重點那我想官方的一個聲明應該是最清楚的因為用字是最精準的"},{"start":6877.369,"end":6902.339,"text":"那我一開始也跟其他委員在做說明這一次的川習會訊息非常的分雜那怎麼樣來釐清哪一些是官方長期的政策哪一些是外交指令用哪一些是川普總統在受訪時候臨時脫稿的演出那這部分我們會來做一個完整的...所以還是請局長密切的觀察甚至二次的川習會的部分都要密切的觀察這樣的狀況感謝局長那是不是請外交部的林部長請林部長"},{"start":6910.441,"end":6926.14,"text":"所以這個川崎會其實我覺得國人都非常關注這個議題所以我想上個禮拜的院會他們就提一個案子就是希望外交部跟國防部這邊能夠呼籲美方克遵台灣關係法、三個聯合公報還有六項保證的部分"},{"start":6927.861,"end":6941.987,"text":"當天看起來朝野一致都支持另外我們也希望美國能夠履行出售我們軍售的部分不知道部長怎麼看這件事情"},{"start":6943.633,"end":6968.654,"text":"就是委員是指全部人因為這一次有談到一些好像已經脫離了過去的六項保證很多人在講那部長怎麼看這件事我想不管是美國在川習會之後的事實清單或者是說他們包括Marco Rubio這個國務院還有相關的官員的發言其實相當一致就是對台政策沒有改變"},{"start":6969.835,"end":6987.799,"text":"那當然有提到說因為習近平有去提對台軍售其實這也暴露了習近平有求於美國嘛那當然可能這個川普總統也可能會感覺到這個問題確實是對中國來講他很重視的問題可是他也表現他沒有改變任何對台灣的承諾這個是"},{"start":6990.74,"end":7015.338,"text":"我們最重要的這一次川習會大概在我想在高層的互動上面習近平很重視對台軍售那川普聽到了那麼後續因為第二批的軍售還在處理中美國有他的機制那我們關鍵就是我們的台灣關係法我是要特別提到台灣關係法裡面提到的美國對台灣"},{"start":7016.118,"end":7017.643,"text":"就是 加強自我防衛 因此的軍售"},{"start":7022.631,"end":7046.997,"text":"是有他的這個承諾這個承諾是建立在一個前提就是說因為中共他不能夠持續增加對台灣的威脅這個威脅是增加的所以這個已經被中共破壞了平衡必須再平衡我是覺得從大的方向是這樣看的所以我們對台灣關係法的解讀啦更何況美國是一個多元民主就像Marco Rubio國務卿講的這不是只有行政部門這還涉及國會"},{"start":7049.137,"end":7071.153,"text":"那他在這個發展中的第二批因為很多參議員幫我們說話嘛我們很關心因為確實是還沒有定案嘛那還沒有定案之前的事情我們都必須要相當的就是戒慎恐懼我們要去努力那努力而已除了川普政府持續跟他們溝通我想美國政府在決策上面的其他行為者也非常重要"},{"start":7071.593,"end":7088.473,"text":"所以我們還是希望這次軍售能夠如期能夠很快的看到發架書尤其是第二批的剛剛有提到荷姆斯上次好像有人問外交部我們有八艘的船現在還是困在那個地方上次好像他們說會跟外交部這邊來做一些討論不曉得現在狀況怎麼樣最後一點時間"},{"start":7092.117,"end":7111.992,"text":"我們都有持續掌握跟關心,那當然有一些涉及到商業的行為,有一些涉及到就是我們對,因為上次交通部好像說要聯合外交部跟報告委員,交通部的航港局事實上他們在公布之後有找海運的三家業者來跟我們外交部"},{"start":7112.912,"end":7132.301,"text":"來交換意見他們也提供給我們資料然後我們把這些資料請一些我們在中東地區的一些相關管處還有跟伊朗可能有一些管道的一些管處去讓他們去試著去接觸看看因為不只船隻嘛那時候還有一個船員的問題對不對他這個對他們就是除了船還有船員的問題"},{"start":7133.622,"end":7157.287,"text":"那他們現在目前都是在這個波斯灣裡面那他們跟我們海運公司跟我們表示目前他們這個船員都是安全的然後他們的補給也都正常那但是因為這個要出來的這個問題目前那個地方其實有將近有兩千艘這個困在這個波斯灣那這個伊朗的部分其實他們目前只有極少數的這個船隻有出來"},{"start":7159.887,"end":7184.414,"text":"這都是一些像日本韓國他們是直接跟這個伊朗的外交部來聯繫那我們跟伊朗目前是沒有外交關係所以我們沒有辦法有這個透過外長這種層次的這個交涉那我們試著再透過一些其他的管道來聯繫當中但是這個也要取決於這個荷姆斯海峽目前美伊還在談判之中"},{"start":7185.174,"end":7207.062,"text":"那隨時有可能,照美國的說法的話,隨時有可能荷姆茲海峽會開放那美國的立場,它這個財政部的立場也非常清楚那個所有的海運的這些在波灣的船隻如果要通過荷姆茲海峽是不得向伊朗去付通行費的否則會有美國財政部會給予制裁"},{"start":7207.882,"end":7227.755,"text":"所以目前我們的海運業者都知道這些情況完全都了解這些情況他們是在等待這個美伊的談判那還有我們這個外交部試著再去跟伊朗這邊看有沒有建立一些非正式的一些交流的這個交涉的管道好 感謝啦 希望很快會有一些比較更好的消息感謝部長 謝謝委員好 謝謝接下來請羅美玲委員上台質詢"},{"start":7241.938,"end":7244.84,"text":"謝謝主席 有請國安局蔡局長請蔡局長蔡局長早 確實川習會之後我們有看到國內對於美國是否持續支持台灣對台軍售是否會產生申辯甚至台灣會不會成為美中談判的籌碼確實我們看到有很多的討論"},{"start":7268.436,"end":7291.184,"text":"也看得出來川習會之後的以美論在一起那當然川普呢他有兩度在公開的場有提到就是即將跟我們的賴總統談話那表示會處理那個台灣問題喔那我們也看到這個部分也被操作就是說被解讀為美國即將放棄台灣等等喔那像這些的話當然我剛剛也有看到我們國安局報告剛剛在"},{"start":7292.084,"end":7319.071,"text":"局長你有提到就是說中共操作這個中美這個川喜會之後呢中共呢他確確實實是操作這個儀美論對是那我們也看到就是說其實那我們覺得很可惜就是說我們國內的一些有心人士呢也是配合的去渲染去操作這個部分那當然我有看到就是說我們的第二就是我們王岸祥委員也有"},{"start":7319.671,"end":7345.201,"text":"注意到的就是這個中美方的聲明對照表我覺得這個還蠻重要的因為我覺得說今天我們很清楚的把這個美方跟中方這兩方的這個聲明很清楚的列出來那也很清楚的讓國人了解可是很可惜它不是第一時間我們提供出來因為我們今天才看到那可是呢我們知道說這一美錄一出來之後呢我們有看到這個"},{"start":7346.503,"end":7366.138,"text":"AIT鼓勵員處長也好或是說我們美國的國務卿盧比歐等等他們其實都說美國對台的政策是不變的甚至美國的共和黨跟民主黨的國會議員甚至都提到希望說儘速地來處理對台的軍購案所以我在想說"},{"start":7371.042,"end":7391.407,"text":"像美國呢他長期對台的政策其實一直以來都是處於那種戰略模糊的這個特性那一方面呢能夠讓這個中共呢他沒有辦法精準的判斷就是說美國對台的這個策略另一方面呢也因為他的模糊性的容易被中國操作中共操作台灣內部的這一美素材像這次的話我們也看到"},{"start":7391.727,"end":7418.077,"text":"像川普他也是他的政治語言一直都是帶有這種模糊性甚至談判性跟交易性等這種商業的這個特性所以像這種模糊性可能就像剛才我所提到的在台灣內部很容易就也被操作成為這個以美理論的這個素材所以我們國安局面對這樣子的方式這種方式的話對內也好對外也好我們要如何去說明讓這個國人因為"},{"start":7420.038,"end":7441.186,"text":"可能會接受到一些比較碎片化的這個資訊然後被誤導然後造成人心惶惶剛剛我有提到就是說我們這第二頁的這個聲明應該要很早出來像類似這種說明我們是不是應該要避時間就要讓國人來安心其實這很多都是被操作的所謂的以美論這部分可以請"},{"start":7442.407,"end":7461.028,"text":"謝委員提到這個非常重要的問題那怎麼樣來應處中共的認知作戰是我們的主要的關切那在這一次的川習會整個過程當中我們大概在網路上收報了有快一百組的異常帳號那所連帶所傳散的正義訊息大概有九千多則那散佈在各個不同的社群平台"},{"start":7461.388,"end":7477.294,"text":"那這部分我們有經過賽率之後來通報政府各個單位在第一時間來做澄清跟說明那針對這些的所謂的以美論或棄台論我想我也注意到美方在第一時間不管是國務院或國防部都有去澄清對台政策的立場或對台軍售並沒有改變"},{"start":7479.875,"end":7501.363,"text":"這是美國長期一致的政策那這部分的政策說明也有助於來釐清這樣的以美論或棄台論那另外在這一次的中共的操作論述我們注意到有一些對於和平謬論的一個操作那大概有三個層次第一個層次就是說中共在推動兩岸交流包括政黨交流過程當中他會特別去包裝所謂的一中框架"},{"start":7501.883,"end":7523.423,"text":"那再把這個一中框架去串聯到所謂的台海和平那認為說你假如沒有接受中共一中框架台海就不會有和平可能會面臨到兵兇戰危的危險來威嚇台灣的社會跟人民那第二個他的和平謬論的操作是在國際上他不斷的去宣傳那兩岸是支持和平統一那用這樣的和平論述來避免"},{"start":7523.883,"end":7544.976,"text":"外界介入到中國所謂的內政問題那來孤立台灣在國際社會的一個連結跟合作那第三部分中共的一個和平謬論的操作還有涉及到是故意的把台灣宣稱成是一個麻煩的製造者那認為假如對台軍售的話會去助長區域的不穩定衝擊到台海的和平"},{"start":7545.436,"end":7558.555,"text":"所以在這三個部分的和平謬論的操作可以算是三部曲那他不斷的操作來這一波的川習會之後來做相關的一個任職作戰那這部分因為我們在17號也有跟總統報告整體的狀況國安團隊的各個首長有報告"},{"start":7561.499,"end":7583.824,"text":"那報告完之後,總統也有五點的對外聲明來對外澄清,說明到台灣是支持現狀的,那迫害區域和平穩定的主要來源是中共,那以及台灣會持續的來強化國安實力,以及強化跟國際友盟的合作,來維護印太地區的和平和穩定。所以針對這一波中共的操作的敘事,以及我們的回應,大概跟以上,再跟委員做相關的說明。"},{"start":7584.964,"end":7594.408,"text":"是 局長你剛剛有提到就是說川喜會之後呢我們國安局就是有發現了很多一百多大概快一百組的異常帳號那這些異常帳號都是來自於哪裡 有查明嗎"},{"start":7599.99,"end":7628.489,"text":"對 我們一般的異常帳號有一個定義就是說它這個帳號會異常就代表它不是正常的帳號比如說它並沒有正常的一個相關的一個好友的連結或是相關的一個彼此的一個追蹤那它都是在特定時間點去呼應到中共一些官宣 媒宣的一些論點那我們有一個很嚴謹的定義來說明什麼叫異常帳號那一般的民眾的一個言論不在我們異常帳號的所謂的認定的範圍之內那以這一次的川習會之後大概這樣的異常帳號"},{"start":7631.491,"end":7653.481,"text":"所以看起來這是一個有系統的這個要來操作這個輿論要來帶這個風向所以為什麼會提到就是說我們為什麼要第一時間就一定要向外說明我們也很擔心像這種異常賬號所傳遞的這些訊息呢會影響到這個人心影響到這個民心那其實呢對"},{"start":7654.682,"end":7660.209,"text":"可能對台灣內部的這個動盪來講其實會是有影響的所以我們很希望就是說遇到這種狀況其實我們第一個時間就是要出來說明那免得民眾接收到一些這些不確實的訊息或是錯誤的這個訊息"},{"start":7671.383,"end":7696.967,"text":"那再來還有一點就是說像日本呢他近期也在調整他的國內防衛的政策那當然也是他就是要來重新面對中國近視的這個擴張還有台海風險跟中國合作深化的問題所以他們準備要來修訂安保三文書嘛那在同一時間呢美國新版的國防戰略強調在第一島鏈他們要建立拒止型的防疫今天我在這個國安局的報告裡面有特別提到"},{"start":7697.307,"end":7716.579,"text":"然後需要說來建立這個機制之後來提高盟友跟這個夥伴的這個防務的這個分擔那當然我們台灣作為第一島鏈這麼關鍵的這個節點我們也認為我們也都認為其實台灣不可能排除在一個防止型防疫的"},{"start":7717.359,"end":7745.093,"text":"之外嘛當然如果排除台灣當然也表示說台灣可能會是一個一個破口所以以美國的以美國利益來看的話其實不可能把台灣排除在外那台灣除了有這個戰略地位的重要性之外甚至是高科技產業這個主要的這個供應鏈所以像這個的話不管是在操作這個棄台論或是以美論其實這個部分應該都是我們"},{"start":7746.013,"end":7768.275,"text":"行政單位 國安局也好 國安單位也好一直可以來去做強調的台灣的這個重要的戰略性其實應該是屬於外美國也好 日本也好他們最在修訂的這些國安的這個政策我們應該是屬於當中的一環絕對不會被排除在外"},{"start":7769.436,"end":7791.855,"text":"這部分跟委員說明跟報告一下那政務委員所提到的事實上美國在他的國家安全戰略當中已經把印太地區列為是大國競爭最優先的場域那為了要避免中共的一個軍事的擴張衝擊到整個印太地區的和平跟穩定那美國在推動所謂的這種巨子型的防禦的概念來串聯區域與我們合作那具體的行動包括雙邊多邊的連連連訓"},{"start":7793.797,"end":7822.475,"text":"那以及讓美國的區域裡面的後勤補給的網絡能夠更強化那同時也去運用各種的基地的連結各種這種軍隊的互訪來強化同盟之間的防禦的韌性那對台的部分當然對台的軍售是一個主要的一個支撐點所以剛剛也在跟其他委員說明也許我們要展現我們自己國內在這方面的支持還有共識那這樣子才能夠更爭取到我們來認同台灣是一個可靠可信賴的區域夥伴"},{"start":7823.175,"end":7839.413,"text":"是那局長也提到一個很重要的一點我們要成為勇猛的重要的這個夥伴我們也願意來分擔這個防疫的這個角色那當然除了提升我們的戰備的能力之外當然我們的國防自主"},{"start":7840.214,"end":7867.371,"text":"我們願意來保護我們自己提高自我防衛這個能力也是我們成為這些勇猛的一個很重要的一個點所以我是在想說不管軍購也好或是國防自主也好我們都很希望國內的朝野的委員都一起來支持這部分我想在這個角色上的這個重要性是加分的我想台灣的國防改革那除了對外的軍購以外包括去"},{"start":7867.911,"end":7891.45,"text":"提升自己本身的國防自主的能力還有相關的產業鏈的完善化那同時也包括到我們全民防衛機制的一個深化還有基礎的建立我想這些都缺一不可是一個很完整的環節那軍購案當然是裡面的重層之重那也希望大院的各個委員也能夠在這個議題上多多支持我們跟美方在經過討論之後相關軍售的一些重點的採購謝謝委員OK 好 謝謝 謝謝局長謝謝"},{"start":7896.892,"end":7916.887,"text":"接下來請黃建斌委員上台質詢好 謝謝主席 請外交部跟國安局請林部長還有蔡局長"},{"start":7924.895,"end":7942.224,"text":"部長好 局長好部長 本集今天就針對近期這個川習會後的這個國際情勢還有川普公開表示跟賴總統的這個急要通話這個事情來提出幾個"},{"start":7944.703,"end":7970.311,"text":"嚴肅的問題就是本席認為說現在讓國人真正擔憂的不只是中共的任職作戰而是川習總統本人川普總統本人的不確定性因為我想川普總統他這個不按牌理出牌的這個風格已經不是新聞那他今天可以對台灣友善那明天又可以在美中國談判中把台灣當作籌碼"},{"start":7971.704,"end":7996.322,"text":"那我想尤其最近美國代理的海軍部長又傳出說主張要暫緩部分對台的軍售我想這讓台灣的社會非常擔心外交部雖然一直在強調說美方仍然支持對台的軍售也強調台灣並非挑釁的一方但是問題是說如果川普真的跟台灣的領導人來通話那這通電話到底是紅利還是風險"},{"start":7998.954,"end":8018.982,"text":"報告員只要是我想國家跟國家之間由國家元首來做對話溝通跟討論事情從台灣方面來講我們都是很正面看待因為中共都企圖矮化台灣什麼事情都要透過北京事實上在國際外交上"},{"start":8019.722,"end":8033.96,"text":"其實即使立場再怎麼樣不一樣啊也能夠討論的啦這個就是大家一定的平起平坐即使不同意也可以同意彼此的不同意啦agree to disagree所以中共就是企圖在外交上矮化台灣當如果"},{"start":8035.642,"end":8051.149,"text":"美台有國家元首的通話我想我們是很正面看待所以通話的內容我想我們很清楚我想總統方面他們都是都有很好的準備但是這個當然也取決於川普總統他的一個這個怎麼樣去主動來促成那我們是正面歡迎"},{"start":8062.043,"end":8088.493,"text":"所以部長認為是紅利多一些這個是大家能夠在同樣一個就是說一個討論溝通其實是外交必要的條件如果像北京都不願意跟台灣討論任何事情這個就容易誤判那就像說我想川普也需要去跟習近平建立一個溝通的管道我想這一個跟台灣之間同樣是"},{"start":8090.415,"end":8096.727,"text":"對 算是正面的啦齁是正面的 不用紅利啦齁不能講說紅不紅利 但基本上是一個正面的發展局長認為 局長"},{"start":8098.854,"end":8124.746,"text":"我很同意那個剛剛部長的講法就台北之間事實上溝通管道很多那假如說能夠有領導人之間的對話也不是壞事所以府方大概也有針對這一部分有一個態度的說明那假如進一步的規劃跟安排我想就由府方來對外做相關的一個所以局長也認為說如果川普總統真的跟我們的領導人來通電話這算是正面的事情是不是對啊對啊 府方也有這樣的一個說明也是樂觀其成"},{"start":8126.027,"end":8153.097,"text":"那兩位有沒有評估過就是說如果川普接通電話會不會未來是拿來又是拿這個籌碼來跟北京做談判那如果是這樣的話我們有沒有什麼因應的方式我跟你通完電話之後表示友好之後然後轉身又說我跟台灣談好了那接下來我們的包括我們的晶片包括農產品包括稀土這些東西要再重談有沒有可能是這樣子"},{"start":8154.897,"end":8175.142,"text":"這部分包括國安會外交部還有國安局這邊我們會做一些相關審慎的評估那包括是什麼議題那或是在什麼樣的時間點那進行的方式是什麼這都還有待西部的一個規劃那假如具體的一個狀況我剛才跟委員說明應該府方要來對外來做一些進一步的說明所以也有評估過"},{"start":8177.143,"end":8203.109,"text":"如果真的發生該怎麼做?目前好像還沒有接收到美方正式的訊息啦我剛只是在回答委員的問題假如真的萬一有這樣的一個規劃的話那我們當然要做充分的一個...就像本席是說我們有沒有先做好規...要先做好準備如果真的他像他今天跟你講好明天又變的話那我們有沒有應...要準備應應的對策嘛不然是不是這樣?外交本來就是在這樣子的情況國際外交是很現實的嘛"},{"start":8203.689,"end":8223.721,"text":"我們沒有永遠的朋友只有利益的關係我想這是很現實的問題那川普總統其實要再一次的展現出所有東西都是以美國利益為優先那有沒有可能我們的所謂的友好他有可能在他的美國的國家利益之前會被放棄掉這個有沒有考慮到我們要做一定的方式"},{"start":8224.913,"end":8242.526,"text":"報告委員陳如理講的外交一定是幹在各式的國家利益怎麼樣去彼此能夠極大化自己的利益當然如果我們跟美國之間利益是一致其實美國不會傷害自己的利益我想在外交上最重要就是讓台美的利益一致"},{"start":8243.506,"end":8257.897,"text":"那當然建立在價值的外交的基礎上更需要有這個實質上利害關係那以這個川普總統他是一個所謂的一個三人性格所謂的就是他是一個"},{"start":8260.439,"end":8278.552,"text":"Great deal但是他也要make a good deal所以其實在美中之間有他談也有一些進展但是也有一些是困難基本上台灣這個問題是習近平想談在美方這一次我們從事前事終事後其實他並沒有主動想談"},{"start":8279.292,"end":8296.603,"text":"那想談的一方就會有求於對方那我想你剛剛提到因為川普總統他的所謂的風格啦倒不是說什麼不按牌理出牌我認為川普總統他說什麼我要注意他做什麼我們更要注意所以他的對台政策或軍售或認為說台海的和平穩定很重要"},{"start":8297.924,"end":8324.167,"text":"要求中共不能夠去破壞現況至於說在談判的過程裡面可能有一些修飾那個東西每個個人風格不一樣我們當然也密切注意我們一定是確保他的國家利益不會被談掉了但是我們怎麼去集大台美之間共同的利益美中去穩定關係是因為這有助於雙方面可是不代表它是一個戰略性的關係"},{"start":8325.228,"end":8341.536,"text":"他是要去穩定彼此不穩定的關係台灣是中間很重要我們不希望變成去可能讓川普總統以為說我們可能是不利於他去穩定跟中國的關係所以AIT古立言處長講得很清楚這也是國務院的立場也就是穩定的美中關係跟"},{"start":8343.377,"end":8361.962,"text":"這一個很強健的美台夥伴關係這並不衝突對 他說他要講的是穩定的美中關係與強健的台美關係並不衝突但這個你一方面又強硬一方面又放軟這兩種策略其實在國際外交上是很常見的手法所以我們也很擔心就是說"},{"start":8364.022,"end":8386.361,"text":"他這樣子高度交易性的這種領導人的個性來說我們也會擔心他在乎的從來不是價值理念的相同他在乎的是利益的最大化所以我們這個部分我們也要做好預防那假設未來我們電話也通了然後新聞也有了但是後來換來是軍售的延宕台海的"},{"start":8387.543,"end":8396.618,"text":"這個壓力升高那甚至美方會不會就要求我們台灣在某些議題上要再做讓步那這個對台灣來講它到底是外交的突破還是戰略的傷害"},{"start":8397.677,"end":8418.606,"text":"我從委員的問題裡面我們都這樣回應就是說其實川普是站在美國的國家利益那我們如果跟他利益一致他不會犧牲他自己的利益因為犧牲台灣利益可能等於犧牲台灣利益所以我們去極大化台美共同的利益至於說美中之間他們在談的時候當然會有一些各取所需這個是我們要密切注意我們也要予以防範"},{"start":8419.666,"end":8444.816,"text":"大概如果真的有一些狀況發生我們要妥善因緣市長 其實本期意思是說我們不能過分的依賴期待在美國的這個保護傘底下一定的 委員講的是沒有錯我們一定是站在自己國家利益出發你不能期待在他的保護傘底下我們去做試圖改善兩岸這個平衡的狀態嘛所以這個東西是很危險如果一個不小心的話 可能就...就像你今天花要花的時候 說遭到後來的我們存在自己的面對這個問題"},{"start":8446.26,"end":8465.073,"text":"委員講的都是對 這個是我們國際政治上我們一定從自己的國家的利益跟立場出發然後去極大化我們跟其他國家共同的利益好 先問一下 主席本來在用一點點時間就是說在這一點點時間就是像我本身有看到這個鄭政權委員有質疑是"},{"start":8466.814,"end":8487.344,"text":"媒體引用非洲唯一有幫史瓦帝尼儀式出現援助經費用途變更的爭議這個部分曾政前委員還有提出原本要提供的史瓦帝尼駐外使館採購設備援助的經費大概65萬美元後續好像被改做機場貴賓室的修繕使用"},{"start":8488.064,"end":8513.538,"text":"那這個部分是怎麼的狀況第二個就是說這個相關的工程款後續的尾款大概有148萬美元這個部分是不是由我國駐石化地理大使館代為支付我想這部分本期這兩個問題是會回答一下報告員我們有個書面的說明另外就是簡單來講這個是有一些出入啦我們並沒有說去這個有通過這樣子的所謂的"},{"start":8515.119,"end":8542.401,"text":"計畫 但是 市方有一些要變更計畫它也還沒有走完程序 也沒有撥款這個也有雙邊一個委員會在監督所以我們會有書面很詳細的說明那 就是像這個時候 這個事情還沒發生就對了但是我們會妥善的來去因應因為對所謂我們不管是援助或者是說去建設一些我們的友邦到底什麼樣的項目以及它的程序我們都要做好"},{"start":8543.001,"end":8570.384,"text":"好 謝謝部長 我想我們外交是不容易然後這個是 還說明一下簡單跟這個委員報告這個雙邊這個合作款都是有台灣跟史瓦帝尼都有一個這個技術合作監督委員會來共同來管理的所以換言之所有的文件的審核都是兩邊有史國跟我們台灣這邊就是我們大使館一起來監控那包括所有的計畫要變更"},{"start":8571.745,"end":8596.959,"text":"這個也要經過這個委員會的同意來提出來那目前就像部長剛才跟委員報告的這些因為裡面有一些文件有問題所以我們根本還沒有到這個撥款的階段那所以這個目前就是還要叫市國方面還要提出相關的部會還要提出一些文件來補正那之後我們才會有到撥款的這個階段"},{"start":8598.65,"end":8623.545,"text":"市長那個外交確實是很艱辛我們好不容易突破但是我想這個經費運用要更透明那至於有媒體這樣的提出這樣的訊息我想我們更應該讓我們所有的同仁能夠了解到我們的每一分錢用途然後並跟的時候要說明清楚那這時候再提醒我們部裡面這邊那謝謝部長也謝謝局長謝謝市長謝謝好 謝謝委員我們投三說明謝謝"},{"start":8641.308,"end":8656.662,"text":"好 接下來我們請馬文君召委謝謝主席 有請林部長以及蔡局長請問林部長跟蔡局長"},{"start":8664.138,"end":8673.226,"text":"今天我們高鐵誤點了所以其實大概可能也稍微延遲了一些不過在這裡大家關切的方向可能還是一樣我們看到在川習會後駐美代表余大雷他宣稱台美保持良好的密切溝通這是台美目前真實的狀況嗎"},{"start":8688.052,"end":8713.298,"text":"因為目前都還是保持非常良好的溝通那我想請教一下就是川普總統他在回程在空軍一號上面提及要和治理台灣的人談談那談什麼不曉得那可是我們想在這裡請教一下所謂川普總統他知道中華民國總統是賴清德嗎"},{"start":8716.431,"end":8730.624,"text":"知道他治理台灣的人是形容賴清德還是美國政府處理台灣事務的人就我們的解讀他說治理台灣的人這是指我們的總統還是美國政府處理台灣事務的人"},{"start":8733.704,"end":8760.782,"text":"各位因為第一次他講的時候大家還在理解他的內容不過他後來又再講了一次要打這個電話那大概就很清楚應該就指的是我們賴總統所以如果指的是我們賴總統他用這種形容詞來形容我們的總統是非常不禮貌的行為即使他是現在世界第一強國的總統他都不應該用這種態度那我們外交部有表達任何的一個抗議或者什麼樣的澄清嗎"},{"start":8762.366,"end":8766.249,"text":"我們對這一點並沒有加以評論因為他還在發展中我剛剛講的發展中是他要不要打這個電話或者後續談論的內容到底是什麼樣我講的是他稱呼我們中華民國的總統叫治理台灣的人這是非常不禮貌的"},{"start":8783.981,"end":8792.927,"text":"這個已經沒有對等這個部分本席認為外交部要有一些態度這個部分我們也希望後續外交部要因為你說我們的溝通非常順暢我們不能任由其他國家的領導人有這樣子對我們好像不尊重的這樣的態度那另外一個"},{"start":8804.694,"end":8809.578,"text":"就是在我們很多委員也在關切就是美國可能暫停一項價值140億美元對台軍售案這個就是我們所謂在特別預算裡面特別條例裡面的第二階段的這個軍售的項目那就這個部分因為國安局"},{"start":8824.668,"end":8852.683,"text":"以及外交部的駐美代表事前好像也都沒有掌握到這樣的一個資訊那我們現在認為他還是會持續的進行嗎就這個結果包括委員因為如同外界有報導其實從1月開始這個案子就在進行中那麼他也有一些程序包括這個行政部門跟國會的諮商目前就是也在進行中所以還沒有到"},{"start":8853.223,"end":8874.046,"text":"完全確定這個是當然我們跟美國的溝通我們已經做到我們這邊不管是我們認為要去編列特別預算或是國會的跨黨派的支持當然這個部分現在就是在美國的一個依據台灣關係法還有軍售的程序在進行中的案子"},{"start":8875.105,"end":8897.48,"text":"這個部分 剛剛不管是蔡局長也好 部長也好 其實你們都有提到在川崎會後 其實有很多訊息是非常多而雜 而且非常的紛亂那我們現在也不曉得它到底結果會怎麼樣 可是我們發現到的多而雜其實這些訊息釋出的 除了我們國內以外 還有包括美方"},{"start":8898.3,"end":8916.894,"text":"美方不管是川普總統不管是他們的國會不管是國務院或者甚至他們的媒體其實有不同的解讀還有不同的訊息釋出其實我們現在收到比較紛亂的訊息都是來自於這些部分反而中方他沒有任何的一個動作"},{"start":8918.195,"end":8921.276,"text":"這個才是我們擔心的因為剛剛有提到我們到底是美國因為這一次的川習會他到底我們接收到的訊息他到底是長期既定的政策或者是外交辭令或者是川普總統他即席式的這樣子的一個說法這三個我們沒有辦法完全掌握可是這個對台灣的影響都非常的大因為我們看到"},{"start":8942.365,"end":8945.966,"text":"現在釋出的結果我們先說軍售的部分好了因為外交部可以有一些我們可以有一些角色比如說國防部在跟美軍簽署這個後續的執行上面會不會有問題剛剛部長跟我們駐美大使都說我們的跟美方的溝通是完全沒有問題的"},{"start":8963.433,"end":8969.457,"text":"所以在這裡我要特別舉出來比如過去我們要買M109A6型的自走炮我們即使簽署了而且預算也編好了也在執行了可是還是因故被取消就要求我們把剩下的錢就是它就是不賣了不賣了就要求我們買海馬士那過去國防部也向美方表達要增購武器裝備我們預算也編了"},{"start":8990.169,"end":8992.972,"text":"可是最近在公共預算的審查裡面我們發現很多對美軍購的項目比如次增飛彈的增購案它從130億增加成690億結果發價數已經兩年了到現在都還沒有簽我們預算也編了"},{"start":9006.448,"end":9012.69,"text":"那另外跟美軍即使簽了發架書就算是單一的供應商的飛彈比如像雷神公司他所生產的AGM-154C的飛彈就是我們空軍F16要用的這個飛彈到現在美軍我們發架書簽了可是他跟承制商的合約還在持續議約中"},{"start":9030.782,"end":9039.786,"text":"所以我們不是只有這一次在特別條例裡面的第一階段跟第二階段的這個軍售案他還包括我們已經簽了發價書的他沒有辦法跟廠商預約或者甚至我們預算編了他的發價書已經"},{"start":9046.969,"end":9063.931,"text":"過了兩年到現在還沒有給我們所以在顯示我們在軍售的部分其實是有嚴重的問題可是顧部長感覺上只關心立法院有沒有同意依行政院編列足夠的額度預算"},{"start":9065.032,"end":9073.578,"text":"或者對武器是否能夠如期生產送交回台灣好像不太在意行政部門也是我們有很多在野黨我們很多執政黨的委員也是因為他們只在乎我們的預算未來的預算有沒有編可是我們過去已經編了現在在執行中的完全沒有進度他們並不關心這是我們要提醒外交部在尤其是我們的駐美代表我們所有的軍售幾乎都是對美國的那現在延宕的部分我們希望"},{"start":9094.631,"end":9095.153,"text":"在這個要求上面或者在"},{"start":9100.725,"end":9103.927,"text":"繼續說服美方的同時因為余大使說140億美元這個軍售可能落空的情況他要繼續說服美方在說服未來第二階段的140億軍購案的同時希望他也協助駐美軍事代表團一併了解對美軍購的項目目前發價書不給或者美商還未同意預約的實際情況到底是什麼"},{"start":9128.326,"end":9132.472,"text":"也希望可以給我們委員會一個詳細的說明就他的進度或者如何協調國務院跟美國議員也繼續強力的要求美軍跟美商把我們已經簽約的 付錢的這些武器裝備趕快交給台灣 好不好"},{"start":9145.709,"end":9165.197,"text":"我們秉持委員的這個要求我們也會持續的向美國行政部門表達關切那國會議員他們也都有表達對於軍售台灣的項目延宕的關切事實上在美國的這個行政部也在檢討"},{"start":9166.457,"end":9171.742,"text":"也在持續要改進 因為這會影響後續經過案的執行 因為前面還沒有言大的話 沒關係我知道他們的過程我們很清楚 可是我們現在當我們一直在催著一直要預算的時候 我們沒有回過頭去看看"},{"start":9183.212,"end":9206.78,"text":"那些我們非常迫切需要而且已經編了錢而且已經同意答應供售給我們的到現在都還沒有看到影子這才是我們必須要提醒的所以不要常常提醒在野黨要編預算而是應該要去督促美方怎麼樣趕快把武器裝備我們已經有協定的這些要趕快交給我們也提醒我們行政單位因為這些更重要它形成的"},{"start":9207.939,"end":9212.021,"text":"戰力破口更嚴重因為那些都是你之前評估比較重要的我們有很多東西沒有來這是外交部可能在認為說我們跟美方還有維持好關係的時候應該要努力的一個方向那在這裡也請教我們蔡局長就我們川習會後我們現在看到的目前的狀況美台關係會有什麼樣的改變因為美中關係他們是依他們大國之間的競爭還有現在的"},{"start":9236.295,"end":9241.498,"text":"所有的地緣政治所有國際局勢的改變他們各取所需那是他們兩國之間的問題可是他們兩國之間所談的內容關乎台灣的安全還有關乎台灣的未來的發展還有我們現在大家都說我們現在好像怕有中共的認知作戰或什麼"},{"start":9257.828,"end":9263.471,"text":"國際現實非常明確的告訴我們現在時局在改變當中川普總統九年前到中國訪問跟這一次到中國訪問已經有不同的態勢這是我們必須要去正視的那這個部分可不可以簡單的請我們局長在台美關係就是美台關係台美關係會有什麼樣的改變可能會有什麼樣的改變包括軍售包括其他的方面"},{"start":9285.684,"end":9300.893,"text":"台美關係的部分剛剛也跟其他委員在說明事實上美方也不斷的重申他們的政策立場並沒有改變來讓整個台美的一個政策的推動可以有它的一個一貫性跟持續性這方面美方行政當然已經有相關的說明"},{"start":9302.114,"end":9323.352,"text":"那另外是美國的國會也不斷的在支持加強台灣的一個安全以及對台軍售案後續的一個推動所以看美國的國會跟行政部門大概在這一部分目前看起來的一個基本的立場還是希望能夠維持跟台灣一個合作的一個關係那另外也跟委員說明一下那九年前川普政府在任的時候我個人也在國安會服務負責涉外的工作"},{"start":9323.672,"end":9337.966,"text":"那事實上當時也有各種的一個揣測不過在川普總統第一任期不管是對美軍購案的一個宣布還是美艦通過台海都創下歷史最高的紀錄所以這部分也可以維護所以那時候沒有改變因為那時候他創下歷史最高的紀錄大概是188億美元對我們"},{"start":9341.009,"end":9347.892,"text":"軍購的部分嘛他同意的部分可是我們現在不一樣現在他可能隨時有改變我現在要聽的是如果最壞的狀況有可能什麼樣的狀況因為我們不要看到的是因為我們看到在我們的一個表格裡面這個就他的結果裡面涉台的部分其實美方他所謂的是未提及那可是在中共"},{"start":9366.058,"end":9382.038,"text":"他所提出來的這個新聞稿裡面是台灣議題是美中關係最重要的問題處理不好兩國就會碰撞甚至衝突那我們應該要看的是比較壞的狀況或者可能發生的狀況對我們會造成什麼樣的影響我想是不是用簡單的就是"},{"start":9385.242,"end":9407.887,"text":"大概說法怎麼樣去面對如果有可能有衝突的狀況我想好的狀況跟可能潛在的風險我們都會去評估啦那以這一部分所整理出來的美中官方的聲明的對照我想委員可以看得出來中共有他的一個紅線的畫色但是美方在這邊沒有回應的意思是代表說對台議題他不認為是可以跟中方來當成一個所謂進行這種討價還價的議題"},{"start":9410.848,"end":9414.09,"text":"我們比較擔心的是我們看到的都是我們要看的那他所謂的未提及可是川普總統自己因為他不會都只是即興式的對川普總統來說他非常清楚以他商人的性格不管是個人利益選舉利益或者美國的利益都是他的考量"},{"start":9429.961,"end":9435.524,"text":"那他在這些考量當中他跟中方他跟習近平整晚談台灣川普也很明確的提到不想看到走向獨立的部分那這個部分其實對我們一定會有影響這個部分最壞的打算因為時間的關係那局長一直沒有明確說出來我們要國安局"},{"start":9452.295,"end":9458.54,"text":"去平息的是我們有可能面臨到什麼樣的狀況你現在如果是維持我們原來的這些政策走向那不會造成影響那當然沒有問題可是我們需要知道的是如果最壞的狀況對台灣會造成什麼樣影響國安局有必要"},{"start":9471.392,"end":9490.789,"text":"針對這個部分去做一個分析不管是讓我們的高層讓我們的總統或者讓我們委員會或甚至讓全民很清楚的知道因為這樣才有辦法去因應這個部分可不可以提出署名報告什麼時候好那我們就盡快把相關的一個分析完整大概什麼時候最壞的狀況大概兩個禮拜內可以嗎兩個禮拜好謝謝"},{"start":9499.695,"end":9518.7,"text":"謝謝馬文君召委接下來我們請許巧欣委員謝謝主席那我們是不是有請林佳龍林部長林部長"},{"start":9526.481,"end":9555.163,"text":"韋奧部長好那這個因為我看剛才好幾位委員都有跟您來關心就是說川普總統那他會不會打電話給賴清德總統相關的一個事宜喔那但是其實我在先前在大院質詢的時候那我詢問過這個卓榮泰院長就有關於這個川普總統他口中所說的他想要打電話的這個對象因為他並沒有講出確切的對象是誰嘛那我詢問說是不是賴清德總統那我也沒有得到一個很肯定的回覆喔"},{"start":9555.603,"end":9580.969,"text":"所以可以看一下這個川普總統他在美國駐印度大使館駐美國建國250周年慶的時候他是現場打電話給駐印度美國駐印度的大使並且稱讚這個美國印度總理穆迪然後他講了很多然後就是稱讚的話然後呢大概美國駐印大使就把川普講話的影片貼在他的X的帳號上面"},{"start":9581.889,"end":9599.5,"text":"所以我想請問一下就是在我們外交部的這個掌握或是我們的分析裡面那川普總統會不會他是用這種形式打電話給可能非賴清德總統比如說說不定打給你啊你覺得在這個評估上面你們怎麼看"},{"start":9600.543,"end":9619.124,"text":"包括因為川普總統有公開講他可以打電話給任何人對啊對啊對啊那因為一開始的時候外面不確定那個人指的是誰嘛可是後來因為比較清楚了那當然我想總統府方面也有回應那我們外交部當然也有跟美方都有溝通我沒覺得很清楚所以你理解到的清楚是怎樣的清楚"},{"start":9620.185,"end":9636.779,"text":"怎樣?就怎樣清楚?因為你剛剛說現在比較清楚方向跟確定的這個打電話的人了那是誰啊?那是川普總統有講啊對你再幫我們因為你是外交部長嘛所以你講出來這個我們比較了解說政府部門是如何看待這件事情的"},{"start":9637.284,"end":9656.729,"text":"我們正面看待而且就要做好準備所以我是說你剛剛說比較清楚是哪一方面比較清楚就是川普總統說他可以打電話給任何人當然也包括我們賴總統而且國際政治上因為川普總統的風格你也知道他都是直接進行高層直接的溝通的所以是包括在裡面嗎"},{"start":9657.529,"end":9671.702,"text":"那在這個路透社的報導裡面他其實就有講到就是說呢這個市民這當然你也可以認為說這個報導是他沒有這個消息來源是錯誤的你也可以這樣想或只是拿路透社的報導來詢問您他的說法您怎麼看"},{"start":9674.725,"end":9689.837,"text":"就是他提到了有四位知情人士提到說美台之間尚未就兩國總統之間的會談制定具體的計劃也就是說呢到目前為止似乎是雖然公開講說有可能有電話但是呢也沒有講說要跟誰來打這個電話"},{"start":9694.48,"end":9711.687,"text":"而在路透社5月22號的報導裡面呢提到的是說我們雙方之間並沒有制定相關對應的計畫那我想請問一下這個部長這個新聞的報導是屬實呢還是你覺得有偏誤的地方那如果有的話是哪一個部分有所偏誤啊"},{"start":9712.349,"end":9734.381,"text":"因為這沒有具名我這樣沒辦法直接評論不過這個主動權是在川普總統要不要打這個電話他說他可以打給任何人你打電話之前你們應該有就是會有雙方會有一些先前的幕僚之間的作業所以不太可能就是說突然來了一個電話你把號碼接起來他說我是川普你就相信了"},{"start":9735.121,"end":9749.817,"text":"所以這個報導他主要是在講說目前為止並沒有相關的準備工作那我想詢問一下這個報導的內容在您看來的話是確實是如他所述還是其實是一個錯誤的報導"},{"start":9752.345,"end":9771.954,"text":"這個因為主動權在川普總統我們就做好準備他是在講說目前有沒有進行計畫的問題因為以前也有通過電話嘛跟蔡英文總統嘛所以這並不是沒有前提所以你的意思是說目前確實有相關的計畫了只是主動權要打或不打是在川普總統的手上是嗎"},{"start":9772.774,"end":9801.53,"text":"你們雙方有計畫我們當然外交國安部門我們都應該去做好各種可能的發展的規劃但是因為是川普總統講他可以打電話給任何一個代理包括在總統這個時候只要進入到執行的時候你會主動權還是在川普總統所以我的問題是你沒有聽懂我的理由我是說如果假設這個電話要打那雙方一定會先有一些磋商那我們現在是否有相關的磋商"},{"start":9802.35,"end":9811.936,"text":"如果沒有的話或許只是還沒有也不見得未來沒有我並沒有要否定這件事情但是我是要問說就目前來講的話雙方是否已經針對川普總統會來電這件事情展開磋商規劃嗎"},{"start":9815.632,"end":9834.658,"text":"並沒有進入到雙邊在磋商規劃的這些 讓我了解當然我們也期待後續有任何的一個外交突破那接下來我要問一下有關於川普總統在5月16號接受福斯新聞專訪的時候那他就談到有關於晶片有關於晶片他認為因為"},{"start":9838.611,"end":9865.057,"text":"說明一下就是說您對於川普總統他談到的這個對台晶片的這個部分那外交部的看法是什麼報告委員其實如果您了解他的脈絡川普總統講的是他在對比他之前的總統這是第一點第二點就是說不是喔不是喔你要不要念一下他上面怎麼講的這是他的原話我們不看中文你看英文就好他怎麼說的你可以敘述一下這個重點"},{"start":9865.917,"end":9888.691,"text":"因為他的脈絡就是他在講如果他當時是做總統不會讓這個事情發生雖然這個事情發生與事實有出入所以我的沒有誰偷誰的問題還是靠自己的實力發展出來我們的半導體產業市長我提出的段落不是你剛剛講的這一段你可以看一下他在這一段裡面他的重點並不在於這個"},{"start":9889.631,"end":9903.022,"text":"是後面這段才有有關於拜登總統他認為說如果可以像他一樣課徵關稅的話那可能他們就不會失去晶片產業但我想問一下他在這段的開頭他是怎麼說明有關於台灣晶片的"},{"start":9905.563,"end":9917.934,"text":"川普總統的說法我沒有一個說法我們說不要跟他一樣我們要持續去解釋說其實台灣發展半導體產業是靠自己的實力而且我們在國際上是不可或缺的我請問一下他這裡的累值得是誰啊"},{"start":9929.994,"end":9958.391,"text":"反正川普總統就只要在他們經驗會有更好的發展那這個都是公私事啦不是不是公私事再來的話我們開會怎麼樣求求不及你講的好像是幾年前一樣不不不他有沒有講到如果我問的是說他的專訪裡面而且是很多次的這只是其中一次我待會還會拿其他的次數給你看就是他說They stole our chief industry那這個they是誰呢"},{"start":9959.332,"end":9970.699,"text":"我報告委員 即使這個說法所謂要科百貨的關稅台灣還是會在半導體發展起來這個投資美國是進入台灣的國家利益也不是說誰能夠逼誰 也不是誰能夠偷誰這個全球化的半導體的供應鏈是必時不可或缺的川普總統5月20號他還在講 這不是很久以前的事情16號20號哪一次更久之前他都不斷地在講"},{"start":9984.517,"end":10009.23,"text":"你可不可以談一下他怎麼說的他在這個演講裡面這都是公開的演講你認為他的這個說法公道嗎他的表達是什麼你所接收到的訊息以及我們是怎麼看待這樣的一個說法的就台灣方面怎麼看待報告委員這是他的說法我們尊重因為其實按照你怎麼尊重呢這是錯誤的嘛對這個陳委員講的這個計算方法是有錯誤的對嘛"},{"start":10010.791,"end":10017.715,"text":"我們講我們的啊他講他的啊哪有這樣子的那事實就是事實我們就要講事實哪有說他的啊我們講的就是事實啊他講的是他講的是錯的那當然要告訴大家說他講的是錯的啦川普總統在上一任他離開的時候他們有50%的晶片生意嗎有嗎每個人有嗎這50%關鍵在分母怎麼計算啊"},{"start":10032.762,"end":10049.215,"text":"那怎麼計算 你覺得你怎麼計算的他有他的分母 我們用我們的分母全世界的辦公室產業的分工不是短時間內可以所以你認同你認同他用他的計算方式在川普的第一任期美國有50%的晶片"},{"start":10050.876,"end":10064.944,"text":"你要看那個分母是什麼是先進晶片加成熟晶片還是幾奈米的晶片還是美國需要的晶片裡面的多少比例是值的你要看他整個講嘛他說什麼呢他說他離開之前美國有50%的晶片生意嘛但是It was taken by other placesIt was taken by Taiwan他的意思是說他的任內"},{"start":10076.95,"end":10100.238,"text":"他第一個任期結束以後的晶片被台灣給拿走了,有發生這樣的事情嗎?如果沒有的話,欸,連曹新成都認為,連曹新成都認為我們應該政府要在這樣的議題上面,大力的表達我們的態度跟回擊。你可不可以說一下,那你可不可以完整的論述一下,這樣的說法對台灣哪裡不公平、不公允,替台灣發聲?"},{"start":10101.358,"end":10128.049,"text":"這是站在他美國的立場去講那我要講說這個要怎麼計算他因為要講一個他可以就是覺得說相對前面總統不一樣的一個結果那我們很清楚台灣的半導體的投資包括台積電投資在台灣的是等比例大於在投資美國所以雖然美國有增加投資台灣增加了更多如果你看未來的佈局也是這個趨勢這不是誰可以"},{"start":10129.709,"end":10140.457,"text":"單方面在短時間內去改變的我們是彼此不可或缺的一個公義面關係你還是沒有回答問題嘛我們台灣被他在社會上批判為晶片小偷這件事情是對我們的一種污名化嘛是對我們那種不公道嘛這種不公允的說法你為什麼身為外交部長沒有辦法大力的替台灣發聲呢我已經發聲了這是不公允的說法"},{"start":10156.728,"end":10172.883,"text":"這個也是我們要澄清的說法我能給你一個時間就是以整個完整的段落從你外交部長的角度提出對這樣說法不公允的批判那你講了又講你也沒真的提到啊因為彼此是不可或缺的因為是一個共生夥伴關係其實我們不要去陷入誰偷誰 誰傷誰因為這個是不會摔人的關係啊"},{"start":10180.129,"end":10184.413,"text":"而且我們台灣還是在供應業裡面佔有最重要的角色這不可能要決對夥伴關係啊我們並不承認這個說法不是不承認是我們反對而且我們認為這樣的說法對台灣不公允"},{"start":10196.986,"end":10203.648,"text":"不公平不是事實我希望因為我時間也不夠了我也不想在這邊有太多的爭執因為我不覺得我們台灣社會在這樣的一個立場上面應該有任何的差異所以我要再強調一次縱使台美關係要保持我們希望能夠很好"},{"start":10216.232,"end":10243.13,"text":"但是在川普總統他一再的說台灣偷走美國的晶片台灣是晶片小偷台灣把美國應該要我的晶片拿走的時候這並不符合中華民國的利益也並不是屬於中華民國的事實我們沒有做這樣的事情我們就是好好認真的在做我們的商業好好在做我們的貿易我們沒有 我們不是晶片小偷我覺得這樣的一個立場應該是"},{"start":10244.511,"end":10251.897,"text":"整個中華民國無論從官員到民代大家是能夠統一口徑的好嗎我認為這個說法既不公平也不正確我們的立場應該是一致的好 謝謝部長好 謝謝我們接下來請賴氏寶委員上台質詢"},{"start":10276.766,"end":10284.548,"text":"謝謝主席有請外交部的林部長以及國安局的蔡局長兩位長官請林部長蔡局長還是隨著剛才委員有提到的我覺得兩位長官要不要就是川普一直講Keep talking就是說台灣偷了美國的晶片"},{"start":10303.157,"end":10317.942,"text":"如果他早一點做就不會有這個事情發生等等的除了你在這裡講我們就大大方方開大門走大陸外交部或者國安局編預算登在他們主要媒體 主流媒體那三年登報 登報報告委員我們在這裡對您的質詢回答應該是各報都會報啊不是啊 登在美國報紙啦我都去美國那裡登美國報紙啦"},{"start":10330.882,"end":10357.438,"text":"那個委員如果有這樣的建議我們來研究怎麼樣在美國的報紙用英文去發表一個我們台灣政府的立場比如說華盛頓郵報 華盛頓Post比如說New York Times 紐約時報等等的報告委員 你剛剛講這幾個報都替我們講話了他們甚至用社論在反駁川普總統的講法你登廣告代表我們的立場是不太一樣的一個版面多少錢啊"},{"start":10359.438,"end":10367.762,"text":"謝謝委員的支持大院有這樣的建議啦我們研究看怎麼辦理一個版面多少錢你沒有回答我我們請同仁研究一下要看什麼報銷售量如何影響力大小來蔡局長要說什麼你同意我做做法嗎對外的宣傳不是我們情報單位的業務這是強人所啦報告委員啦我們現在沒有沒宣費啦"},{"start":10386.984,"end":10410.642,"text":"剛剛我同仁告訴我說 現在會有困難怎麼會沒有 我們現在不能說 你們被你堆啊怎麼被你堆啊 怎麼沒有呢不要亂講 都還沒有審呢對不起 報告委員 因為去年的預算被刪掉那今年的預算還沒有過還沒過啊 有偏啊今年只能按照去年的 那所以今年的還沒有過好啦 不要亂講話 來第二個來 第二個"},{"start":10416.99,"end":10421.101,"text":"現在通通加回來了啦通通加回來了啦第二個我們來講一下"},{"start":10424.613,"end":10448.882,"text":"這個我還是很關心川普會不會打電話給賴清德你說尹用跟蔡英文那時候不一樣喔那時候蔡英文是現任總統川普是總統當選的不一樣現在兩個都是現任總統那個外交上的意義是很大的意義不是小事是很大的事情他等於要川普"},{"start":10450.066,"end":10453.287,"text":"如果對我們來講當然很好 外交可以這樣一個突破可是要問他內容啊 內容如果說 Mr. Lai 我跟你講啊因為所以我不賣武器了 這個武器在9.24以後第二次春喜會以後 我再準10月份或者11月選完眾議員再給你"},{"start":10475.558,"end":10487.487,"text":"就一得一失 失的還比較多咧 人家說得還多重要這時候我們要武器 當然我們希望能夠武器 要給我們啊我給你們兩位長官講啦 你口口吹口口吹看喔 現在為止我們TPS77 78 內大都有發酵素 到現在為止都沒交貨F16V今年確定不可能全部交"},{"start":10504.798,"end":10507.721,"text":"人稀釋用人扛的刺針飛彈經過十年到現在為止一顆彈也沒有"},{"start":10513.134,"end":10528.145,"text":"一直催我們給錢 給錢啊幾千億的準備都在那裡了他不給啊他給你拖啊 這個要讓大家知道啊不是說這個時候不支持什麼國防部要立法 立法準備好了啊要錢就給錢了所以清楚看得到這個 老實講這個 林部長啊你要 有機會啦齁我想我不知道川普會不會打給你啦齁機會不大吧"},{"start":10543.336,"end":10545.818,"text":"他說他可以打電話給任何人啊所以包括你你包括蔡局長是不是蔡局長蔡局長講一下啊你很高興啊在那裡笑很詭異的一抹微笑來蔡局長回答給你是不是沒有他們之間的溝通管道非常的順暢也多元啊那假如有領導人之間的通話我想一旦有相關的你沒有透過適當的管道跟川普講一下快點靠我啊"},{"start":10573.24,"end":10583.745,"text":"你有跟他說過嗎?或者是林部長你有沒有透過適當的管道告訴華府說叫川普打給你那時候你就請起來了 有嗎?不是不是 請問部長主動權在川普總統不是 你有沒有跟那邊聯繫 有沒有我們都有聯繫管道溝通也都很順暢聯繫打電話的事 有沒有因為主動權在川普總統"},{"start":10602.5,"end":10618.733,"text":"你要跟他說啦 要卡就緊卡啦來我問一個很實際的問題這看哪位長官可以講現在看到我們一直希望加入CPTPP但是另外一個中國大陸主導的RCEPRCEP它總共15個國家加入GDP占全世界三成CPTPP呢"},{"start":10630.472,"end":10650.012,"text":"大概這個是15個國家接受CPTPP12個國家人口數跟GDP占15%左右差一半啦這個以我們來講我們只希望能夠加入CPTPP啊這裡面來講 哪一位長官可以回答我我們對這個看法怎麼樣"},{"start":10651.206,"end":10674.57,"text":"我們現在確實有在申請要加入CPTPP但是都沒有進度啊現在如果這兩個一結合我們更沒有機會因為RCEP是老公在主導大乾屁對 但是這個引起很多反彈啊包括中共利用這次APEC想要談這個問題很多國家就覺得不適合啊那蔡局長要講什麼你國安局掌握的資訊有沒有這回事老公要把這兩個連結有沒有這回事"},{"start":10678.138,"end":10685.409,"text":"沒有 有聽到這樣的一個說法啦但是在政策推動上我們在注意他有沒有一些具體的作為這個日本4月21日修訂他的防衛裝備移轉三軍制"},{"start":10693.683,"end":10709.734,"text":"第一批就賣給Australia 十一艘的護衛艦 七十億美金外界很擔心一個東西喔 日本軍國主義是不是再起來這個蔡局長要不要做一點呼應 我就下去了"},{"start":10710.514,"end":10735.02,"text":"因為我想日本方面他對於他的一個防衛政策的一個調整最近確實有新的變化那包括防衛裝備的出口給菲律賓跟委員剛剛所提到的澳洲還不止喔 下一批還要給紐西蘭喔還要給其他的國家喔對 他現在區域安全的角色扮演是比過去來得更積極對啊 那就是代表有一點往軍國主義的方向走啦"},{"start":10735.9,"end":10757.069,"text":"另外一方面因為中共在區域裡面軍事活動比較多所以印太的這些有門國家對於要現代化自己的作業都有這樣的需求你們有沒有正在評估如果美國武器買了不順利跟日本買所以各種的可能方案都不能排除各種可能方案都不能夠所以不排除我們跟日本買武器對各種可能的要小心回答這個題目都會評估各種可能性謝偉"},{"start":10762.489,"end":10766.893,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝賴委員接下來請洪孟楷委員上台質詢好 主席謝謝 麻煩請林佳龍部長請林部長好 部長好 委員好"},{"start":10790.543,"end":10812.952,"text":"感謝今天召委特別針對我們這個川習會之後地緣政治新局及我國外交的事務來做專題報告那其實本席也看到是說接下來也有年度預算的這個審議那本席現在今天還是以一個我一直認為外交是我們全體中華民國國民大家共同一起努力的"},{"start":10813.379,"end":10832.421,"text":"所以對外我們就是國家的方向一致要一致那所以我今天不討論個案但我比較想說一個大觀點這邊來看我想請教一下就是說部長你上任也快兩年時間一年多兩年嘛那現在有沒有針對譬如說因為看到我們的邦交國相對來講也"},{"start":10834.939,"end":10847.286,"text":"縮減那我們的邦交國維繫邦交不容易但是邦交國對於我國有沒有提出更多的一些要求在過去這些接觸裡面有沒有說因為他可能會覺得是說有時候我們台語說靠誰啊"},{"start":10849.207,"end":10874.94,"text":"會不會覺得是說這個邦交國這覺得是說好像現在我們相對影響力相對比較小所以他對我們提出更多要求不管合理不合理有沒有這樣的一個方法報告委員並沒有其實我們這個邦交國其實跟台灣維持邦交其實說理念相近是因為我們的發展經驗很值得他們來參考所以我們推動所謂農邦計畫現在就把原來可能對外的援助再加上投資然後由政府跟民間一起來"},{"start":10875.7,"end":10883.641,"text":"所以第一就是說我們原本邦交國並沒有因為這樣提出更多的要求不管合理不合理是不是對好那另外"},{"start":10884.77,"end":10912.089,"text":"世界就是邦交跟沒邦交那沒邦交的國家有沒有對於我們外交上來講有提出一些要求或是說希望我們援助的地方他們是很希望我們台灣的模式也能夠用在他們國家那當然我們也會看這個國家跟我們的關係對我們戰略上的一個利害過去這兩年有沒有提出比較多的這些預算還是說這些給"},{"start":10913.01,"end":10938.88,"text":"沒有邦交的對於理念相近但不是有正式邦交但是確實在戰略上很重要比如說菲律賓或是像波蘭我們確實會投入比較多的資源但是我們重新去定義我們的所謂總和外交不是只有以邦交為唯一的指標也就是說對我們國家的利益來講很重要的比如說我們最近我想跟波蘭的關係那它是中東歐的大國"},{"start":10939.8,"end":10957.096,"text":"他也很對台灣的發展模式特別是我們的高科技產業他很有興趣那也宣布了一些合作計畫菲律賓也是我們站在這邊就是就事論事我只是想是說就是對於整個外交部來講你現在已經講到了就是說其實邦交國跟非邦交國"},{"start":10957.717,"end":10975.791,"text":"都有持續的投入那預算能不能使用?報告委員就是我們反映在榮邦計畫有八個旗艦的方案那我們有增加預算因為比如說我們現在在巴拉圭做的這個智慧醫療我們可能很多國家我們都可以去推動市長你先聽一下本學的問題啦"},{"start":10976.792,"end":10990.865,"text":"其實我今天真的還是就事論事就是說我想了解是說那到底過去這幾年裡面尤其是民進黨政府上任之後這十年到底我們針對邦交國跟非邦交國我們的預算使用比例來講大幅增加的是非邦交國"},{"start":10993.508,"end":11009.683,"text":"應該說都有增加因為我們總預算增加了但是我們相對的佔比都一直減少中中國的外交預算也大幅增加所以基於我們國家的安全利益的發展我們也希望等比例的增加外交部的預算所以從2024年那個時候大概都是300億左右"},{"start":11017.21,"end":11033.738,"text":"那到了我們去年就是來編今年的預算的時候我們就有增加榮邦計畫的預算那另外就國會的角色越來越重要那行政院曾經就是要編列的預算並沒有到位我們也希望能夠把它補足"},{"start":11034.699,"end":11051.561,"text":"因為本席現在其實提出來部長你看到我現在就是就整個大方向我們不希望把錢花在刀口上但我們不希望浪費是因為什麼很多國人其實也都在回饋跟反應就是說其實從民進黨政府上任當時2016年我們有多少邦交國"},{"start":11053.43,"end":11080.118,"text":"2016年那個時候大概我們現在12個邦交國那個時候大概有將近20個22個邦交國到現在只有12個邦交國我們邦交國其實少了10個但是我們對於邦交的一個邦交國的一個經費運用實用上來講我們其實是不減反增的那代表什麼代表說分母減少了但是我們分子是增加的所以說其實我們在每一個邦交國上面用的預算其實是增加的"},{"start":11081.298,"end":11100.009,"text":"另外對於你剛一直講到所謂的這個以前從固邦現在從隆邦或是說對於其他的沒有邦交國的國家裡面我們也都大幅的成長我們的預算包括說我看到我們的外交部有所謂的這個國際援助計畫跟關懷計畫在這一個部分裡面國際關懷跟援助計畫裡面從2016年的"},{"start":11108.313,"end":11118.763,"text":"2016年那時候的預算到現在已經大幅成長了700多%7倍之多 等於是成長了成長到現在390幾億"},{"start":11121.442,"end":11124.867,"text":"所以說現在這個狀況我們去年的預算是305億啊對 但是廣義的國際合作跟關懷預算是從90億成長到202億成長了125%"},{"start":11138.866,"end":11164.499,"text":"所以本席的意思還是強調我今天就事論事強調說當我們從2016年民進黨政府執政到現在2026年整體的預算都大幅的成長的時候當然我們的邦交國其實是減少的所以換言之我們投入在每一個邦交國裡面的預算其實是增加的另外我們在非邦交國的部分我們也有投入很多的經費但是在這些經費裡面包括說烏克蘭重建等相關費用"},{"start":11165.74,"end":11181.801,"text":"到底我們的成效因為有些時候預算花在刀口上你說什麼東西都要去做當然你錢撒出去永遠不夠但本席還是強調是我們對於我們自己國家的價值應該要把錢花在刀口上所以最後我是想說在"},{"start":11183.142,"end":11198.834,"text":"確認一下是不是部長也可以給本席一個資料就是針對我們從過去到現在至少說從這兩年賴政府上任之後這兩年對於我們邦交國以及非邦交國還有就是國際援助的地方的這個成效以及收益"},{"start":11200.375,"end":11227.531,"text":"這個資料是不是可以提供給本席?可以什麼時候可以提供?我們在一個禮拜內提供副委員補充一個資訊其實在2008年那個時候我們的外交預算就接近300億後來是因為減少因為我們現在中央總預算的比例有增加所以我們佔比就是從將近1.8%降到9.8%所以我們希望恢復到原來你們每一次都喜歡拿馬政府你看都已經要結束了你就是喜歡拿馬維拉來救援"},{"start":11227.671,"end":11230.072,"text":"2008年的時候有多少邦交國?馬政府交給民進黨政府應該有超過30個邦交國吧?"},{"start":11249.013,"end":11275.9,"text":"20多個邦交國嘛到現在民進黨政府變成23嘛那到民進黨政府從短短的幾年裡面從22個邦交國變12個邦交國所以你要比這種東西其實我覺得是很沒有必要的事情但本席今天就事論事所以說從開宗明義我講說不要講個案我講通案我還是希望站在鼓勵外交部的立場上面但我希望的是為人民把關預算把錢花在刀口上"},{"start":11277.059,"end":11298.533,"text":"不是每一次提到這個都要講什麼前朝政府現在政府民進黨已經執政十年了能夠為中華民國走出去我們都支持但不要每一次都拿政治意識形態包委員謝謝您的指教我們也會加強的善用我們外交部的預算好 承諾需要再給本席我們之後再來做討論好 感謝謝謝"},{"start":11305.663,"end":11316.298,"text":"接下來請王紅薇委員上台質詢好 謝謝主席 我請林部長"},{"start":11325.773,"end":11346.51,"text":"我們非常重視我們每一次我們能夠去參加的國際性的會議在今年3月份在柯麥隆主辦的WTO部長會議是我們加入WTO之後第一次我們缺席部長會議非常非常的遺憾那請問部長為什麼這次的柯麥隆的WTO部長會議我們沒有辦法參加"},{"start":11351.744,"end":11371.951,"text":"是因為柯麥隆政府違反WTO的規定,他發給我們的,就是矮化我們的簽證的國籍名稱後來我們抗議之後他要更正,可是又一堆錯誤所以基本上他這個是不是跟中國的打壓有關係?"},{"start":11374.082,"end":11392.494,"text":"呃有有關係齁那當時他的這個給我們的簽證名稱是Taiwan, Province of China這當然我們不能接受齁那當然我們像這種國際性會議一定要去齁一定要去爭取那但是剛剛講到跟中國打壓有關"},{"start":11393.314,"end":11407.01,"text":"那前兩天我們的這個代表楊珍妮出席在中國大陸蘇州的APEC會議請問一下那麼在她的名稱上面有沒有改變或者是矮化"},{"start":11408.164,"end":11428.605,"text":"他用Chinese Taipei 因為我們在這個APEC裡面的名稱長期以來所以我們可以順利的參加了在中國蘇州舉行的APEC的部長會議卻沒有辦法參加在非洲克麥隆的WTO部長會議所以如果我們把這些的理由"},{"start":11429.466,"end":11451.176,"text":"全然放到中共打壓在這兩個 這時間大概只有兩個月的一個國際性的部長會議我覺得我們在談到這些不能夠全然的全部推給中國的打壓也跟我們跟在對外的關係上的經營上還有我們的爭取上有相當大的關係"},{"start":11452.256,"end":11454.018,"text":"非洲大家都認為幾乎是中國的囊中之物我們這一次賴總統要去訪問我們的邦交國在我們當時的飛機的行程裡面也受到了阻撓"},{"start":11467.651,"end":11486.3,"text":"那現在非洲在發生一個其實蠻重大的問題就是伊波拉病毒而且他現在的了解他已經從擴散從剛果已經擴散到其他的非洲國家過去在COVID-19的期間我們一直說台灣can help"},{"start":11487.521,"end":11509.375,"text":"然後我們捐了很多的醫療物資到國外去所以我請教部長在這一次非洲爆發了伊波拉病毒而且在擴散當中我們有沒有計畫也是一樣台灣CanHelp會提供一些醫療的物資人道的物資救援到非洲去"},{"start":11510.764,"end":11538.379,"text":"報告委員我們當然我們的榮邦計畫也好我們這次在WHA我們跟衛福部推動的智慧醫療與健康產業我們是以邦交國為對象但理念相近國家我們也是這個作為我們可以合作的對象那至於說因為非洲的情形以民主剛果是跟我們完全沒有往來如果這個情形的話我們會去加以了解那也會為衛福部的意見我為什麼特別提到這次的伊波拉病毒下一個議題就是"},{"start":11540.18,"end":11565.931,"text":"我們長期以來我們特別經營索馬利蘭然後這一次也是因為踩到了這個索馬利蘭的所謂的一索原則那麼使得我們這一次的這個賴總統的出訪甚至包含部長自己的出訪也多次的就是沒有辦法直飛所以我要講的就是說我們花了大筆的"},{"start":11567.111,"end":11578.976,"text":"外援大笔的经费去经营索马利兰而因此得罪了非盟的国家请问一下这样子是值得的吗"},{"start":11579.824,"end":11589.433,"text":"不過這是沒有關係的兩件事情怎麼會沒有關係因為中共對全球南方特別是非洲國家的控制扭曲所謂中原則然後要求包括飛航情報區這種違反國際法的規定這個跟索馬利蘭的這個事情是沒有關係到目前索馬利蘭全世界有哪一個國家承認它"},{"start":11605.894,"end":11617.382,"text":"除了一個國家以色列是有承認而且是要大使館只有以色列承認嘛其他到目前為止沒有其他國家承認我的意思是說我們今天花了大筆鈔票比如說我們最近史瓦帝尼的部分在外媒報導我們花了240億美元當然你們說是錯假消息他還是我們的邦交國他也跟其他國家有邦交可是請問一下我們大力的去經營索馬利蘭"},{"start":11635.894,"end":11647.117,"text":"除了去得罪索馬利亞去得罪其他的非洲國家對台灣到底有什麼幫助他能夠第一個他能夠加強台灣的企業對非洲的經貿嗎他能夠讓我們在國際性的會議或者是WHA他能夠幫我們發聲嗎都沒有啊"},{"start":11657.239,"end":11660.202,"text":"我覺得我們的資源為什麼要放在一個這個索馬利然我們花了很多的精力包含我們的次長也出席包含我們幫他什麼鋪台灣大道包含我們的中油也到那邊去投資等等之類我的意思就是說外交的資源很可貴"},{"start":11681.442,"end":11683.403,"text":"但是我們今天為什麼要一個所謂的這個索馬利蘭我們要花這麼多的資源所以我覺得相對而言如果今天我知道中國對於非洲國家的這個它的影響力它是很長期的"},{"start":11698.251,"end":11722.31,"text":"但是譬如說當它發生像伊波拉病毒這樣的一個嚴重性的疫情的時候如果台灣可以提供人道救援在這個時候給人家雪中送炭我認為對於這個非洲的即便我們沒有辦法怎麼有什麼邦交啊這大概是很困難但是至少讓大家對於台灣的感受"},{"start":11723.17,"end":11743.738,"text":"就是會比較好感受到台灣的友情而不是我們一直去踩索馬利蘭的紅線然後去得罪了這些非洲國家我認為是得不償失的啊我們光是一個去參加索瓦帝尼以後我們外交部也會常常派員過去啊每一次都花大筆的錢在非洲轉機嗎我不知道我們這個策略我們的戰略是什麼呢"},{"start":11749.77,"end":11774.643,"text":"報告委員我們有個非洲的政策有區域聯防所以我們希望在東西南北非都有點因為點線面就可以串聯所以索馬利蘭作為非洲之角有它在地緣政治以及在國際上面的重要性那也不是只有台灣我想包括美國英國還有很多裡面相近國家其實都有在索馬利蘭建立一定的友好的關係美國英國當然有它的戰略的考量嘛"},{"start":11777.985,"end":11804.545,"text":"我知道他確實有一些戰略的地位但他離我們真的太遙遠了太遙遠了大國有大國的布局嘛即便美國都會說今天他不會飛9500英里來幫台灣的台獨作戰一樣嘛他那邊有非洲他有他的戰略地位但是這是大國的遊戲我都不曉得我們去花這麼多錢在索馬利蘭上面我剛講了嘛"},{"start":11805.706,"end":11831.776,"text":"對台灣到底有什麼實質的幫助有什麼實質的幫助我們在國際性的會議的時候現在當我們被打壓的時候他能幫我們發聲嗎他比我們還慘啊我們還參加更多的這個國際性的會議所以我要講的是外交資源非常的珍貴剛才我要特別這個補充一下你剛剛講說什麼沒宣費刪掉我要特別說外交部被刪的這個沒宣費是國內的沒宣費"},{"start":11834.897,"end":11857.999,"text":"國際的沒宣費我們事實上是給外交部非常多的這個我們經過協調之後外交部其實是比其他部會拿到更多的一個沒宣費啊所以我覺得講話一定要實在一點也要誠懇一點也要公平一點你們國際的沒宣費在去年去年事實上立法院是"},{"start":11859.279,"end":11869.263,"text":"給這個外交部讓你們做國際的媒宣這個很合理但是國內的這種所謂的大內宣不應該花的我們當然要把關以上好 謝謝委員好 謝謝我們接下來請葉元之 葉元之 葉元之委員不在請王定宇委員上台質詢"},{"start":11891.175,"end":11901.151,"text":"今天比較沒有人問到陸委會請陸委會省副主委請陸委會副主委我提醒剛才國安局外交部因為國防部的官員不在這裡"},{"start":11902.403,"end":11908.589,"text":"你們不用出來了剛有提到刺針飛彈確實因為國際局勢中間有經過COVID-19也經過俄烏戰爭因為美國32次援助烏克蘭刺針飛彈所以交貨是有遲延但是那個遲延在2024年23年吧5月24號拜登總統用總統撥款權撥了154億元"},{"start":11928.632,"end":11944.479,"text":"就是撥刺針飛彈來就是補足交貨來不及的戰備需求這個剛才在詢答的時候我覺得我們部會首長未必是那個主管部會未必了解這個要清楚讓他知道我印象是2023年5月24號拜登總統的PDA總統撥款權撥了154億台幣的刺針飛彈裝備撥交台灣好 回到沈永中副主委我的問題很簡單"},{"start":11956.109,"end":11984.399,"text":"所以我們來看國際事件像中國的種種的高峰會Summit等等你不能單點去看它就像我們看台灣跟我們重要的盟友之間不管是阿聯酋或者是以色列或者是美國在非洲之角的索馬利蘭的布局你也不能單點或距離遙遠去看它它都有很多地緣政治對國家利益有關的事情所以我要請教你的是"},{"start":11985.663,"end":12014.601,"text":"如果你去看習近平最近很忙啊前陣子忙著抓他們自己的將軍抓掉一大堆啊他們的中將、少將以上可以有一個連的將軍都不見了齁抓抓起來鬥起來差不多一個連欸齁他最近的跟相關的會晤從比較小規模的所謂的習政會因為習近平不喜歡叫政習會齁就跟鄭麗文跟國民黨長主席見了面然後就要回去了接下來是川普跟習近平的高峰會"},{"start":12015.854,"end":12043.525,"text":"走了之後川普跟普丁的高峰會走了之後換這個習近平跟普丁走了之後換習近平跟金正恩的高峰會這幾個會幾乎是連續的喔在一個月內左右發生那陸委會組長對中國相關的工作當然我們國安局也是負責相關的情報收集跟資源請問一下這幾場會它有什麼目的它是每一個都是獨立偶發的"},{"start":12044.685,"end":12067.297,"text":"或者是有關聯的是非常謝謝委員的提醒我想以時間點來講還有以這個整個會務的這個背景來講還有他們共同的交集來講的話絕對不是偶發的就像剛剛委員提醒的這些會議基本上他們都有一個背後的大鋪排跟大的一個結構在我們可以注意到這幾場會議都有一個共同的交集跟共同的議題那就是一中原則那就是台海問題"},{"start":12068.157,"end":12097.472,"text":"那就是要怎麼樣去解決把台灣問題當成是中國的內政問題去做一個這樣子的錯誤敘事所以我們陸委會的觀察是這樣中共對台的這個政策來講其實我們不斷的提醒就是兩促兩反就是要促進融合促進統一促統促融合然後另外兩反的話就是要反獨反介入那我們會看到說這幾場會議他都在做這些事情而且是按照不同的對象在做不同的這樣子的一個敘事然後整個是包裝起來是一套組合權的這個方式那對台灣我們要注意什麼"},{"start":12098.608,"end":12117.647,"text":"對 所以我們會看到說他對美國來講的話那我們要繼續的暢通跟美國的一個溝通並且確保跟美國共同的利益因為我們看到這次的川習會他就是在講反讀 反介入 反對軍售那比較遺憾的就是說我們也會看到說在台灣也有一些反對軍售的這樣子的一些這種爭議在喔我請國安局長一起上來齁這個後面介入問題跟你有關 繼續"},{"start":12120.189,"end":12145.521,"text":"那我們也看到說在這個習政會的時候確實就是在做剛剛說的這個促統促融合來推進對於台灣的這樣子的一種統戰的這個作為那對於這個普丁還有對於金正恩的這個會晤來講我們觀察到就是他企圖要去鞏固他在威權國家中他不是一個民主陣營喔是在威權國家中的一個領導地位然後要畫清楚他的這個一中政策的一個敘事喔所以中國的目的很簡單就是要改變現狀就是要併吞台灣喔"},{"start":12146.061,"end":12166.668,"text":"那他利用這幾場的這個峰會不管是在對國際敘事來講甚至是對於台灣內部來講都有達到分化的這樣子的一個作用OK 那國安局齁其實剛才沈副主委講的就是中國大概就是兩隻手 一隻手呢他希望對台 他其實併吞台灣不管是用融合或者所謂的促統"},{"start":12168.51,"end":12196.695,"text":"他是要把台灣併吞下去所以希望在台灣的國內有應和的聲音有附和的力量那在國際上呢去阻止國際上對台灣的支援阻止台灣在國際上被看見另外結合像金正恩啊 普丁這種威權獨裁國家呢好像有一群人站在那邊在反對台灣的國際地位大概做法是這樣子這裡面除了情報收集以外"},{"start":12197.496,"end":12198.364,"text":"有沒有法律面的問題"},{"start":12199.537,"end":12227.094,"text":"比方說我們在台灣台灣在走向國際的時候如果有人接受中國的指令去阻止台灣在國際社會上的被看見阻止台灣提升我們的自我防衛力量我們總是有一條法律的界線意見表達自由的意思 OK但受命 受中共之命而為之那就違法的問題了國安局有沒有去研究有沒有看到這樣的個案大概兩部分"},{"start":12227.614,"end":12246.658,"text":"第二部分就是說中共的一些國際場合的操作一方面當然就是去推出所謂的一中原則把台灣問題給內政化希望外力不要去介入台海的事務另一方面他們主要的操作是在國際上現在開始把台灣當成一種麻煩製造者認為軍售台灣會升高區域的緊張跟衝突透過這樣的一個敘事來希望孤立台灣跟國際的合作跟連結目前國際的反應怎麼樣"},{"start":12254.693,"end":12272.426,"text":"我想就美國來講他們已經很清楚來說明對台政策沒有改變對台軍售的立場沒有改變那另外我應該注意到不管美國國會或世界上各個其他的理內相近國家也都表述對於台灣維持這個安全跟自主地位的一個支持有沒有法律的紅線在那裡我剛才講"},{"start":12273.467,"end":12298.103,"text":"自由表達你要統要獨要成為火星人月球人那你的自由但如果接受中共的指令甚至於收到金錢或相關的資源這總是一條法律的線嘛目前又有這種現象好這部分大概國安局的夜館這邊我們比較注意的是有沒有國內的中共的協力者在接受中共的指示或資助之下去發展組織或是去借選"},{"start":12298.743,"end":12325.202,"text":"或是去竊取國家機密那假如有的話我們就會啟動我們的機制把相關的事證提供給檢調單位來查辦那這個部分我們再繼續來加強查查有這樣的案子嗎?有這樣的案內容?對 有的話我們都 只要有這樣的一個事證我們都會處理我請外交部長一併上來啦剛才這個國安局長有特別提到這個中國當然還有一些希望孤立台灣嘛把台灣變內政化嘛 把台海變內海化嘛"},{"start":12325.962,"end":12354.298,"text":"那我們當然很遺憾國內有一些人附和了中國做法把自己國家我們國家中華民國台灣維持現狀或者不管叫什麼名稱他總是我們兩千三百萬人共同擁有的主權國民主權也是我們自己大家所生存的地方這個國家一旦被併吞了什麼政黨競爭啦什麼的那個都沒有意義了國家存續很重要所以我們當然國內有一些人去依附去附和這樣的聲音那"},{"start":12355.88,"end":12376.737,"text":"這個是遺憾的事情踩到法律面我是認為不管是泛夫走卒達官貴卒踩到法律面該辦就辦但我要請教外交部就是說現在有一個現象就是我們比較擔心的是中國這些做法有沒有產生實質的效果我的問題很簡單我們都看到美國海軍的代理部長"},{"start":12379.178,"end":12405.346,"text":"在出席參議院聽證會我印象是Mitch McConnell問他問題他有表達了一些所謂的對台 他沒有講141喔他講對台軍售因為伊朗 因為憤怒之火暫停可是有意思 他在同一段這個證詞裡面他有講出說這個職權是屬於Rubio跟Hexes其實不是他的職權"},{"start":12407.071,"end":12419.673,"text":"就你來看 就兩位目前有關川普新一筆對台軍售不管金額多少因為金額還沒有宣布我們不知道你們怎麼看這個事件"},{"start":12421.513,"end":12449.608,"text":"因為不管戰爭部或國務院都已經針對所謂高雄這個海軍代理部長的談話已經澄清了而且他也不是這個政策的負責人或單位所以應該是很清楚而且美國跟我們也說明了對台的政策包括軍售沒有改變所以高雄是一個對他非他業務內容在聽證會的時候即席答詢因為那個答詢我看了蠻有意思的因為前幾天是他們的戰爭部長Hexes去作證"},{"start":12451.089,"end":12467.503,"text":"講了三四次說我們對伊朗的彈藥裝備絕對沒有欠缺那高雄在那邊講說因為彈藥我們必須更齊備所以暫緩對台軍作這兩個訊息其實是矛盾的他後來又講說那個是Rubio-Hexes的問題所以你怎麼去詮釋高雄"},{"start":12468.484,"end":12496.225,"text":"很萬人不了解美國的所謂的海軍部長什麼部長那個是政治任命海軍的業務他並不是主責的主責是有另外的人但他這個說法你們怎麼去詮釋他或怎麼回應他因為外界很關心我們當然也會去溝通那從美國方得到的訊息就是他並不是代表美國的立場或是一個這個負責的業務的人所以你認為沒有影響沒有影響好那我回到下一個問題AIT在5月21號"},{"start":12498.226,"end":12518.907,"text":"丟了一個聲明出來AIT的中文其實也蠻好的這個聲明兩大段落第一個是對台政策承諾不變而且美國不同政黨的政府都有一致性因為我們都知道AIT不會自己發這個函啦這一定是從美國國務院來的第二段更有意思"},{"start":12520.314,"end":12535.691,"text":"穩定的美中關係跟強健的美台夥伴關係他們不認為有衝突會持續深化這意思是兩邊各自發展關係沒有誰是誰的籌碼的問題我先請教蔡局長國安局對於高雄到這個AIT這個聲明你們怎麼評估"},{"start":12538.496,"end":12554.637,"text":"他在國會的談話事實上剛剛外交部也說明了包括美國國務院跟美國的國防部都有在重申對台政策的立場沒有改變那也算是做了某種程度的一個澄清所以你們認為也是沒變對 那外交部怎麼去看AIT這份聲明他有什麼意義在裡面"},{"start":12555.831,"end":12581.091,"text":"報告委員這個聲明相當完整這也是國務院的立場那除了這美中關係跟美台關係是可以並行的啦我跟你講這是多年來大家努力的結果他是美台跟美中我也不妨礙你去交朋友又不是幼兒園說你是他的朋友就不是我的朋友我們沒有這個事情嘛但這裡面其實在回答一件事情台灣不是美中談判的籌碼因為這是並行不備的分別獨立的個案"},{"start":12581.571,"end":12603.846,"text":"我再補充委員,其實古立言處長在521的時候接受專訪,有一段談法是非常關鍵。他說,針對對台軍售強調美國對台政策不變,且以明確向中方表達此立場。美方持續關切台海現狀遭逐步侵蝕,原高度重視透過強化台灣自我防衛能力,重建台海平衡。"},{"start":12604.666,"end":12622.258,"text":"美方亦歡迎賴總統重申維持兩岸現狀並希望北京不設前提與台灣民選領導人交流就是說其實在面對的是中共在片面的改變現狀而且是以武力跟脅迫的方式所以我們需要再平衡我知道主席站起來了我最後三十秒我其實最後要問你們六項保證對台六項保證"},{"start":12623.439,"end":12649.714,"text":"川普在川習會後所做的一些動作或說法你們認為六項保證有沒有受影響許不叫關切美方對台的軍售政策並沒有受影響或因此改變這個是據台灣關係法衍生出來那六項保證怎麼去解釋這個因為引起各界的關注包括國會你們認為六項保證可能未來也會針對這個東西有更進一步的發展包括國會部長你趕時間我問局長"},{"start":12652.728,"end":12675.375,"text":"我看你們站在那邊了我就六項保證川普在川習會後的動作跟說法就我們國家政府來講第一個他有沒有改變鬆動或者值得我們注意的副相訊號在裡面對我剛才跟其他委員在說明了我們在看川習會有一部分要看的是美國長期既定的政策有一部分是外交辭令有一部分是川普在即席現場的個人言辭對我們不同層次的分析"},{"start":12677.836,"end":12686.887,"text":"那就這個部分來講美國駐中大使也已經重新的聲明他們的立場對台的六項保證政策沒有改變好 謝謝接下來請陳冠廷召委上台質詢"},{"start":12707.19,"end":12708.011,"text":"我們請部長有請林部長"},{"start":12721.906,"end":12742.848,"text":"部長好 部長看我們這個中美的領袖會晤之後那整個國際上面特別針對台灣的這種說法評論那開始有一些變化那這個時候我們對自己國家的論述當然是非常重要接下來要怎麼樣跟中美的這個"},{"start":12744.589,"end":12765.244,"text":"元首們來去對話或者說軍售怎麼樣的影響我想這些都是我們需要去注意的部分那剛才其實已經透過不管是國安局長或者是外交部長兩位首長都已經很清楚的跟我們所有台灣民眾跟國際平台都已經有鄭重的宣示就是說在你們溝通之後"},{"start":12766.204,"end":12790.217,"text":"對美的溝通之後應該來說美國對台灣的立場沒有因為這一次川習會而改變美國對台的軍售的立場也沒有因為川習會改變甚至我們可以直接這麼說未來的軍購也不會有第三國來去做影響來去做事前的徵詢應該這樣子的解釋是正確的吧"},{"start":12791.503,"end":12812.114,"text":"報告委員就川普總統過去做的啦我們看到其實對台的軍售是歷史上最多的總統那麼至於說他在川習會裡面有提到這個中國因為很關心美國對台軍售這個問題他還沒做決定這個就是按照程序走"},{"start":12813.434,"end":12828.963,"text":"我想這也引起各界顧慮包括美國跨黨派國會所以後面我們值得要很密切的關注跟因應來確保美國對台的軍售是基於台灣關係法其實台灣關係法裡面很清楚因為它如果"},{"start":12829.463,"end":12846.409,"text":"最後是已經破壞台灣關係法的前提就是和平解決正義而且不斷的增加這個武力的這個威脅所以這個時候台灣必須要相應增加國防的預算跟向美國軍購所以這個是符合美國的利益也是符合他的法律也是符合他的政策"},{"start":12846.909,"end":12858.103,"text":"那至於說個別的一些單次的軍售會怎麼處理因為這涉及到後續多邊的互動我們當然也是很嚴謹也是非常慎重的來因應"},{"start":12862.428,"end":12889.248,"text":"謝謝部長那反正就是基本上就如同我剛才講的那個聲明大概就是軍售等等都還是如常跟過去的這樣子立場一致因為它有法律的基礎有法律的基礎那接下來我要問另外一個部分就是多次有美國總統川普都會點名到我們台灣非常重要的產業台積電那他們都一直在重複晶片的事情這樣子的論述某種程度對我國還是有一點傷害的"},{"start":12889.668,"end":12912.585,"text":"你們有想一些辦法怎麼樣讓美方能夠理解我們的立場怎麼樣讓美方知道說台積電它既在美國設廠之後它同時也是美國以及美國民眾的資產而不是把它當成是一個外來的或者是一個競爭者而是一個合作者是一個未來可以合資的共同發展的"},{"start":12912.925,"end":12936.27,"text":"其實這個論述非常重要因為我們不斷的聽到各種的特別是在中國的這一些他們的社群平台或者是透過某些名嘴華有惡意的平台來去攻擊我國的主要產業那這樣對我們的傷害是很大的因為三不五時就會被拿出來說你看這個美方又再提到台積電那這個第一個以美論嘛那第二個部分就是對於台灣本身的這個產業來講"},{"start":12938.09,"end":12963.886,"text":"我們很明顯的是在替美國的很多重要的這些公司Media也好 Google也好基本上大家都繞不過台積電的而且台積電也都是努力的替他們生產同時這也是符合美國利益啊更重要的是說美方也知道台積電也在美國設廠了那也不斷的在擴張當中那三不五時這樣子被提起我覺得是有害我國的這一個整體的形象有沒有什麼辦法"},{"start":12964.847,"end":12981.347,"text":"透過什麼樣的管道來去扭轉現在這樣的狀況包括我們不管是公開或者是非正式的管道我們都有跟美方表達我們的立場那事實上在美國的主流意見也認為川普這樣的講法是既不正確也不公平"},{"start":12982.088,"end":13007.893,"text":"那我們也會表達這個立場因為如果有造成傷害這個傷害是對雙方面都是傷害因為台美在半導體供應鏈裡面是一個所謂的共生夥伴關係包括現在的細勝市跟所謂的人工智慧行動計畫都是如此所以我們是基於台灣的國家的利益要佈局全球那當然深耕美國所以投資美國是符合台灣的利益這是前提但是也符合美國的利益這樣才會變成一個雙贏"},{"start":13009.173,"end":13024.914,"text":"對 我們知道這雙贏我的意思是說有沒有什麼其他非傳統的管道因為我們現在講的這些不管是透過智庫或者是過去的國會他們都很清楚的知道這是符合美國的利益跟台灣的利益他們非常的清楚的知道但是在川普總統本身他的交往範圍裡面"},{"start":13026.616,"end":13046.062,"text":"有沒有一些管道能夠讓他不要再重複的講到台灣的晶片似乎都採用台灣偷走他們的晶片這樣的方式那這樣對台灣未來要競爭或者是跟美國合作都是會有一些傷害的我們都有持續溝通我們也相信川普理解了但是這裡面他講的所謂偷走的這個"},{"start":13047.342,"end":13062.292,"text":"意義啊是指的整個產業移出去了他用簡化的方式去講說台灣偷走了美國的晶片但是事實上這是一個供應鏈的分工合作的關係我想他我們必須要有一定的了解他的講法他的講法有涉及到"},{"start":13066.795,"end":13087.356,"text":"美國當地的這些生產者我們在美國用美國當地的這些生產商關鍵供應商全部都是在美國嘛所以我們沒有偷走的這個議題是不存在的那我的意思是說除了傳統的我們在國會上面的管道部長有沒有思考其他的方向他過去的商業管道或者是等等的讓他"},{"start":13088.577,"end":13110.652,"text":"盡量的至少在措辭上面能夠對台灣更加友善這對台灣來講是非常重要的報告委員在川普總統跟這個魏哲嘉董事長代表台積電的記者會上他也是講了很多很正面的話那投資美國以台積電來講已經盈利了就是說已經是有獲利啦這個是公司才走得下去"},{"start":13111.572,"end":13138.24,"text":"那因為供應鏈的擴大跟我們彼此的一種分工這個是事實那川普總統我剛剛講第一個他講的是供應鏈整個這個離開了美國那我們當然台灣掌握最核心的部分第二個很重要他是在凸顯前任總統的不作為跟他現在的作為然後達到了很大的一個成果我想任何政治人物都需要去做比較有時候會跟他的這個內部的競爭者比較"},{"start":13141.041,"end":13162.331,"text":"所以我們了解至於說在台灣我們不可能讓台灣的半導體供應鏈移去美國我們是擴充供應鏈這個樣子才符合台灣跟美國共同力這樣才會持久如果我們的利益傷害對方的利益或對方的利益傷害我們的利益這無法持久這就是我們在推動的所謂的台美一種共生夥伴"},{"start":13163.271,"end":13185.051,"text":"也是在半導體供應鏈上的一種我們的一個台美的聯合艦隊所以我們不要用聯合的角度去看台美在供應鏈上的分工合作的關係那川普總統講的話有他的講法我們要了解那個脈絡第一點包括所謂被偷走他指的供應鏈不見了被移走那是因為台灣當然靠自己的實力不是因為我們有辦法去偷這不是偷不偷的問題"},{"start":13186.132,"end":13203.415,"text":"第二個他是在對比對比他前任的總統的作為跟他作為現任總統的作為因此有很大的差異因此他有功勞那我們也知道啊那主要順著他對我們有好的一個佈局我覺得投資美國跟投資台灣這是一個對等互惠的關係啊"},{"start":13204.056,"end":13222.131,"text":"當然這個我們都同意那事實上前總統拜登他不僅僅是鼓勵我們的晶片他甚至是有這個設有經濟上面的財政上面的刺激措施對他有經濟法案所以他也是有作為可是我想說內政就是這樣嘛我們跟外交之間有一些競爭跟合作的關係都有"},{"start":13223.872,"end":13242.352,"text":"那對台灣的這個晶片他不要把它當成是負面的我們要全力的澄清那也要就是表達我們的立場那我們外交部會更努力我還是強調就是試著看看除了傳統的外交管道之外有沒有其他商業管道能夠讓他多說出對"},{"start":13243.413,"end":13257.391,"text":"就像他當初跟這個魏哲嘉這個總裁的時候的對話一樣那是很正面的那正面的東西越多的話那對台灣的整體的形象也是會越好不要再讓他們重複用這些比較負面的字詞來講我們台灣最重要的產業那這對"},{"start":13259.574,"end":13276.928,"text":"台美之間其實我們去那邊就是對台美之間就是有彼此的利益都是有幫助的因為台灣本身我們當然最好的放在台灣沒錯但是土地在上面來講土地跟供電上面來講的話把我們的資產一部分再去投資美國那對台美之間都是有利的嘛"},{"start":13277.408,"end":13302.083,"text":"總是那邊有更多的這個土地跟很多的金屬建設那這是互惠的那我們不管是出口給美國也是大幅的擴張我們對美國的出口是大幅的擴張那我們除了對美國的出口擴張之外我們同時也跟美國採買我們需要的武器這個就是雙贏啦安全上面有美國的這些軍售在經濟利益上面彼此之間是互惠的那我想這個未來"},{"start":13304.465,"end":13327.987,"text":"其實外交部已經盡很大的力量了那我們可能是需要經濟部或者是更多商業的這些關聯性的人在他周遭的這些內核圈的人來去影響他外交部的同仁跟住管都已經都懂包含智庫都懂那到底是有什麼其他的管道這個可能要請部長可能要看看經濟部或者是我們的各種商會的"},{"start":13329.489,"end":13350.991,"text":"就像猶太人或者以色列他們的遊說的組織真的很強我們可能思考一下有沒有其他的方式可以打入他的內核來讓他們對台灣特別是我們的半導體產業來去更加友善好謝謝韋恩謝謝林部長應公請假接下來由陳明祺政務次長代理列席好"},{"start":13352.759,"end":13359.424,"text":"接下來請王逸川委員上台諮詢王逸川委員上台諮詢王逸川委員上台諮詢王逸川委員上台諮詢王逸川委員上台諮詢王逸川委員上台諮詢"},{"start":13386.618,"end":13409.512,"text":"好 兩位 看哪一位要先回答 就是說川普在離開中國 在上飛機的時候忽然間丟出一句話就是對台灣的這些跟軍售有關的這個案子要在這一個談一談 大概是這樣的一個文字國安局第一時間"},{"start":13411.107,"end":13422.004,"text":"你們聽到這樣的文字因為它是一個影音這樣的一個文字你們第一時間聽到以後進行研判完以後你們做了什麼事"},{"start":13424.722,"end":13445.128,"text":"因為這次的川習會事前我們做了一些部署來了解到說可能川習會涉及到的議題那當然我們之前我記得在立院的專報我們提到中共一定會操作所謂的試探的議題那第三個是在整個過程當中我們會注意的是美國官方的說法那以及一些川普總統在接受訪談"},{"start":13446.468,"end":13473.953,"text":"比較即席性的一些談話我們會做一些資訊的分析那整體上看起來就像美國官方對外澄清的他們的涉台的政策還有對台的軍售立場沒有改變那因為媒體有很多的報導所以可能我也注意到美國官方也不斷的一再的在澄清這一方面的既有的立場是有一貫性的後來他給了這個文字裡頭相對對台灣是友善的就是我們看的是官方的立場文字啦就是落實的文字"},{"start":13474.913,"end":13480.761,"text":"那我請教這個局長,如果沒有這一場川習會你個人研判,這個所謂的140億美金的軍售案"},{"start":13490.253,"end":13509.834,"text":"台灣的這個軍購案會不會現在已經簽出來了對我想就台美的軍售它一定有經過我們雙方國防部門一個相關的磋商針對台灣的需求未來戰爭情況的想定那來看哪些是重要的優勢來列在相關的軍售的清單上面"},{"start":13510.134,"end":13536.007,"text":"那後續還要走國會及總統批核的程序那這部分以我國安局的立場來講我們當然尊重美方它相關國內的一個流程那就我們的觀察來講那美國對台的軍售它不只是台灣關係法的法律的規定那也是它長期的政策那更結合到美國在印太整體戰略的布局跟規劃非常重要的一環這個是大部分的看法但是有一些的看法是說啊就因為說這句話"},{"start":13537.931,"end":13551.306,"text":"習近平有跟川普說什麼,說到川普要走回去之前說要搞台灣武器的事情,還想看看你個人認為這樣的推論可不可能"},{"start":13552.387,"end":13575.266,"text":"對我想川普總統當然可能在那個受訪的當下他因為人在中國嘛不管是一種外交辭令還是是因為在當天的歡迎晚宴習近平不斷的在講涉台問題讓他有這樣的印象那不過我還是建議委員除了川普在隨訪時候的一個談話以外還是可以多注意一下美國的整個行政部門在這個議題的立場的重申就是說川普離開中國之後"},{"start":13580.888,"end":13598.658,"text":"川普離開中國之後的美國的官方包括文字各式各樣的說法是不是就回到了川普還沒去跟習近平見面之前那個基調是一貫的就是說這個去之前跟去之後整個美國的官方"},{"start":13600.059,"end":13625.487,"text":"談這件事情是沒有改變的而且事實上我也可以注意到啦以這段時間不是很長的時間美國官方不管是白宮國防部或那個國務院以及駐聯合國大使駐東大使還有國會相關的一些議員幾乎對於一些涉台議題的一些論述跟說法可以是非常頻密的都是在重申對台灣的支持好那現在請外交部次長"},{"start":13627.067,"end":13649.839,"text":"這個過程中,因為這個訊息一出來之後,我們也看到美國的部分的國會議員他們也講話了,這一件事情外交部有出道力嗎?還是就是他們講話,我們只是觀察還是我們有去跟美國的國會議員、美國的政府有做任何的溝通說"},{"start":13650.7,"end":13666.083,"text":"你們川普總統到底在說什麼你們也說得很清楚因為國內訊息一出來因為今天這個報告裡頭也有寫說中國單方很快速地做了一個解讀這個報告裡頭寫的我們的外交部做了什麼"},{"start":13666.964,"end":13685.684,"text":"我們當然是說其實跟美國包括美國政府行政單位包括跟美國的國會包括跟美國的這個政策圈都隨時保持非常密切的溝通那委員也都知道說我們國會裡面有很多的好朋友對 平常有很好的往來同時他們都非常的關心台海的和平穩定"},{"start":13686.545,"end":13704.912,"text":"那我想是說在那個川習會之後,那麼國會發這樣的一個聲明,聯名信等等的,我想這個我們平常都有做好很多的努力,但是這個時候他們觀察到這個局勢,他們主動的來關切這樣的問題,那我們對這樣的東西當然是表示非常的歡迎。"},{"start":13705.532,"end":13732.204,"text":"因為我跟委員報告一下其實美國的這個總統當然他的這個說話非常的一個重要但還要放在一個更大的一個脈絡之下像委員非常了解那麼我比如說那麼在前任總統拜登總統任內事事提出了就是他要不管任何的代價不顧任何代價要防衛台灣但這個並沒有形成一個完整的政策"},{"start":13733.324,"end":13753.232,"text":"就好像這次他在講這個事情的時候,包括美國國務院、美國駐中大使,甚至說也不算是他夜館的貿易代表,他也出來說話,大概傳遞的就是一個清楚的訊息,美國對台政策不變,而整個的軍售,包括整個對台灣的態度,"},{"start":13753.912,"end":13766.859,"text":"主權地位我想也都是在歷史這個累積起來大致上的基調是維持不變的那麼偶爾會有這個領導人他自己的一個詮釋跟他因應實際的一個狀況所以你們現在看起來這個狀況沒有很嚴重"},{"start":13768.98,"end":13797.812,"text":"因為大家都很緊張那我想中共在這一場川習會大概就是最大的一個效果大概是造成我們台灣的人心惶恐那麼就我們外交部的立場當然我們會盡全力去了解整個的狀況但是我們的判斷是不需要這麼樣子的惶恐美國長期的對台政策包括軍售在內這一次又再一次的重申沒有任何的改變那我再請教一下局長"},{"start":13798.772,"end":13811.264,"text":"局長,若是我們的賴總統叫川普說到電話,按照你的建議,電話說到會不會跟大家講?會不會說哪一天講到了,講了什麼?"},{"start":13813.051,"end":13836.59,"text":"這部分總統府已經有對外說明了就是說假如總統有這個機會跟川普來進行通話的話那幾個重點的論述就是會幫台灣的聲音來傳遞給美方那包括台灣是區域現狀的維護者然後另外台灣也會積極地在國防投資上做一些投資那以及區域安全 總統是主要的威脅挑戰這是我們的 總統已經有列出來我們的立場啦 對對對就是說 如果說你們到底兩個說什麼"},{"start":13841.434,"end":13857.912,"text":"這個對外說明你覺得適合嗎對這部分由府方來做相關的評估那以及不是你要建議啊你不是都會建議那假如建議的話是在內部建議而且國安局只代表我們國安局的意見可能府方還要在綜合各個單位的意見來做總體的評估那你建議呢"},{"start":13858.593,"end":13871.886,"text":"那我們的建議當然是在對話過程當中可能就目前比較共同關係的議題來交換意見就有電話在講的時候你敢不參加看到時候的一個規劃那也還涉及到相關細節的安排那就是兩位都判斷現在的狀況"},{"start":13878.172,"end":13886.696,"text":"並沒有我們當時第一時間看到川普在飛機上面講的那一句整個新聞一出來全台灣都緊張你們兩位現在這樣經過一段時間之後整體脈絡看起來並沒有那麼嚴重對 就美方的行政部門跟國會部門大概在這個議題上對台灣的支持表達出蠻一致的一個立場好 謝謝"},{"start":13907.748,"end":13910.11,"text":"謝謝接下來請郭玉琴委員上台質詢謝謝主席 部長已經先行離開了那請次長請陳次長委員好"},{"start":13930.254,"end":13952.714,"text":"市長 大家都非常關心台海的危機我想台灣從來就不是挑釁者 也不是麻煩製造者到底誰在挑釁 誰在破壞整個所有印太的一個和平誰是麻煩製造者 其實非常顯而易見剛剛其實一早這樣子聽下來 其實非常開心為什麼 因為我想這個朝野 大家都有一些共識"},{"start":13953.735,"end":13970.088,"text":"就是為了這個川普他在事後的一些言論那麼不管是對總統的這個稱呼被忽略了或者是我們對於所謂的這個晶片被偷走了這樣子的一種說法大家都有一些共識要來維持我們的這個國格那不要犧牲掉這個台灣的一個利益"},{"start":13970.768,"end":13998.53,"text":"那我想這個部分當然也是這個非常清楚非常堅定的但是我也希望我也希望同樣一句話既然面對這個國際上任何矮化台灣的一些言論或者是這樣子的一個態度我們這麼的義憤填膺那在面對我們這個國際上的外交屢次被中國的打壓一次一次又的就是不斷的打壓跟矮化這樣子的一個態度也應該要"},{"start":14000.652,"end":14014.868,"text":"從今天開始我們把它拿出來一樣也要義憤填膺有這樣子的底氣對中國表示抗議啦齁這個才對好那接著下來其實因為其實本來應該部長在齁因為這次我在這個日內瓦"},{"start":14016.25,"end":14031.532,"text":"當然部長我們也隨行了但是在日內瓦呢大家都非常的辛苦在拼外交那瑞士的這個物價其實是非常的高昂那在這邊我要幫這個外交人員稍微講一下話"},{"start":14032.273,"end":14048.087,"text":"因為我們都知道其實光是在日內瓦的這個高成本的一個城市生活那對於駐外的人員來講是非常非常的不容易啦那長期這個外交人員要擔負很大的一個這個外交的一個重任"},{"start":14048.687,"end":14070.931,"text":"那麼不管是在這個外館他們對於所謂的這個國際會議上的聯繫或者是呢在當地呢他們也有一些國際上的一個倡議跟媒體的溝通等等這全部都是靠第一線的外交人員在稱那當然我剛剛有提到尤其是瑞士的Romeo那他的物價啦住宿啦生活的成本啦其實都是"},{"start":14071.331,"end":14100.837,"text":"算全球最高的這樣子的一個等級啦那當然有很多的這個外交人員他們是長期的駐派派駐在外面那我想呢也都是長達幾年的時間那有的是舉家一起到那邊那不管還是的這個教育也好或者生活在那邊也好或家庭的部分那心理的壓力更不用說那但是呢要幫他們稍微講一下話我聽到他們其實有的還要每個月自己貼錢啊所以很辛苦啊"},{"start":14101.537,"end":14129.096,"text":"所以我們是不是應該要重新建議外交部我們建議一下就是重新來檢討這個高消費城市的住外的待遇跟他們津貼的一個制度再來就是強化住外人員的家庭的支持跟這個心理支持的一個機制再來就是我們是不是可以建立更彈性的住外的資源協助的一個方案讓第一線的外交人員能夠在外地替台灣在外交上繼續的發聲繼續的打拚"},{"start":14131.837,"end":14158.645,"text":"當然我想這個因為物價來變動那現在因為種種油價上升通貨膨脹壓力很大其實我們各個地區其實當然是說瑞士是最嚴重但其他地區我們出去的時候也常聽到我們在地的這個住管的這些同仁反映這個都是要自己貼錢房租等等第一個我們在內部我們重新再來調整各個地方的地區佳績"},{"start":14159.985,"end":14186.597,"text":"那麼這個東西希望能夠盡量趕上物價但是總的來說因為外交部的整個的預算那麼都還有限我們能夠去做的這個調整幅度都還是在一定的限度之內外交部希望能夠支持我們的這個駐外人員那麼給他們一個不需要憂愁的一個環境以台灣今天的經濟的一個發展的狀況是可以到這個樣那也希望貴賓能夠多多的支持"},{"start":14187.838,"end":14212.232,"text":"又往上衝了大概一千三百多點然後我們的外交人員可能會覺得相對剝奪感他們就是可能沒有趕上這一波的富裕因為台灣在國際上一次一次的被全世界看到其實外交人員這個非常非常的辛苦所以也要體恤他們那當然回到剛剛其實大家聚焦的這個川協會之後其實美國代替協會古立言他也接受了這個中央社的專訪"},{"start":14214.034,"end":14230.549,"text":"他特別的強調美國對台的政策其實是不變的但是我們要更強化自我防衛的一個能力來維持台海的平衡對於所謂的軍售當然美國也向中方表達了他們對台灣的態度"},{"start":14232.691,"end":14244.895,"text":"那我想這應該也算是非常直截了當的一個總結啦那我想維持台海的現狀或者維持台海的和平跟印太的和平是大家的共同的責任喔好 再次的謝謝次長謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":14248.489,"end":14274.867,"text":"好 謝謝我們接下來請洪裕祥委員洪裕祥 洪裕祥委員不在請黃仁 黃仁 黃仁委員不在已登記質詢委員除不在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束本日會議有黃仁委員 洪裕祥委員提出書面質詢請列入記錄刊登公報委員書面及口頭質詢未及答覆的部分或要求補充資料者請相關機關兩週內以書面答覆"},{"start":14278.309,"end":14281.071,"text":"委員有約定期限者從其所定剛剛我們也有請外交部也要請駐美大使那邊要提供的相關的一些資料我們軍售後續如何去催促過去的跟現在的我們可能都要去關切剛剛也有委員提到次增飛彈的部分因為軍援跟我們編列預算採購的是不一樣的"},{"start":14306.87,"end":14322.571,"text":"軍演的部分國防部並沒有對外清楚的交代跟說明所以我們要求的是我們採購的部分這個部分還請外交部可以據理力爭然後把結果也告訴我們那接下來本次會議到此結束 散會 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}