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PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":426.435,"end":426.516,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":1347.841,"end":1367.599,"text":"好 大家早安好 謝謝好 現在我們開始開會先請主命報告出席人數報告委員會出席委員6人 已足法定人數好 已達法定出席人數我們現在開會首先進行報告事項請宣讀上次會議的意思錄"},{"start":1369.127,"end":1378.073,"text":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議事錄時間115年5月20日星期三9時至12時51分115年5月21日星期四9時至13時51分地點紅樓101會議室主席委員邱映穎等14人列席委員賴世保等21人"},{"start":1387.6,"end":1409.775,"text":"列席人員115年5月20日星期三經濟部部長龔明新等115年5月20日星期四經濟部中務次長何敬昌農業部部長陳俊濟行政院財務房舊辦公室副主任周新議員行政院公共工程委員會副主任委員李一德內政部常務次長吳唐安交通部常務次長林國賢原住民組委員會副主任委員谷仲克拉方安等"},{"start":1410.535,"end":1435.83,"text":"主席召集委員洪玉祥115年5月21日星期三8事項宣讀上次會議事錄決定確定台灣事項審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管台灣電力股份衍星公司台灣台灣糖業股份衍星公司經濟部部長龔明星台灣電力股份衍星公司董事長鄭文森總經理郭天和及台灣糖業股份衍星公司董事長吳明昌報告後文秋瑩等18人提出質詢"},{"start":1436.73,"end":1458.135,"text":"經由經濟部部長龔明新等及其答覆登記發言委員除不在場者外區域均已發言完畢 詢答結束委員羅志強 洪玉祥 張家俊 邱志偉及一代院長所提書面質詢列入記錄 刊登公報書面質詢核位及答案部分請相關單位於週內以書面答覆並複製本會委員另有要求期限者從其鎖定決議詢答結束 令定期繼續審查115年5月11日星期四"},{"start":1463.076,"end":1477.449,"text":"報導事項 邀請經濟部部長 所謂台灣糖業股份衍生公司董事長 農業部部長行政院災害防救辦公室首長 行政院公共工程委員會首長內政部首長 所謂國土管理署首長 交通部首長原住民主委員會首長 財政部國土財產署首長"},{"start":1480.412,"end":1495.331,"text":"國軍退出於官兵輔導委員會首長及衛生福利部首長就全台各縣市迅起防災防洪防災工程準備情形及花蓮馬太安溪眼色湖災害復原重建工作執行進度及預算運用執行進行報告並備執行"},{"start":1497.533,"end":1515.378,"text":"農業部部長陳俊濟經濟部政務次長何敬昌行政院招待防救辦公室副主任周勛源行政院公共工程委員會副主任委員李怡德交通部常務次長林國賢內政部常務次長吳唐安及原住民主委員會副主任委員古仲卡拉芬報告後委員陳廷飛等19人提出質詢"},{"start":1516.078,"end":1516.818,"text":"在場沒有委員所以我們議事錄正確定"},{"start":1545.563,"end":1574.958,"text":"那這個一般我都不介紹今天初期的列席的官員因為今天的會議要審查國會今年度的預算所以特別介紹國會各處局市的主管來今天代表國會列席我們葉俊賢主任委員謝謝主委高先貴副主任委員"},{"start":1577.874,"end":1591.019,"text":"張朝仁主任秘書好 謝謝主席數 廖玉琳主任謝謝仲規數 林志美代理處長謝謝經發數 陳美菊處長好 謝謝社發數 張富玲處長謝謝產發數 蕭振隆處長謝謝人發數 謝嘉宜處長謝謝"},{"start":1608.089,"end":1634.204,"text":"國土區域領導發展處 黃文彥處長 謝謝管考處 李齊處長 謝謝法治協調處 陳新寧代理處長 謝謝中興新村文化專案辦公室 吳文貴主任 謝謝檔案管理局 林秋彥局長 謝謝資訊室 歐陽玉平代理主任 謝謝"},{"start":1636.96,"end":1665.916,"text":"秘書是副船軍主任謝謝人事室陳怡君主任謝謝國會聯絡中心黃子華代理主任好謝謝還有國發基金管理委員會汪庭蘭子興秘書好謝謝好另外除了國發之外今天出席的還有行政院主計總署公務預算處"},{"start":1667.165,"end":1671.843,"text":"王淺凱專委謝謝基金預算署楊靜茹科長"},{"start":1674.318,"end":1701.671,"text":"好 謝謝好 今天介紹完今天國安會跟行政院主席總署跟國安基金列席的所有的官員那我們現在繼續進行討論事項請醫事人員宣讀討論事項 繼續審查1.115年度中央政府總預算案關於行政院收入預算第五款第一項第二幕建議國家發展委員會及所屬單位預算部分2.115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算分營業部分"},{"start":1702.131,"end":1728.104,"text":"關於行政院主管、行政院國家發展基金、離島建設基金、花東地區永續發展基金及促進轉型正義基金宣布完畢好 謝謝國家發展委員會及所屬單位預算的韓非營業基金我們在今年4月30號我們在第11次會議已經有宣達結束所以我們今天呢 我們依序要進行審查"},{"start":1730.288,"end":1756.606,"text":"跟大家說明審查程序如下第一先處理公務預算的部分公務預算的部分包括與附屬單位相關的預算科目均暫照列是所屬基金審議確定之後再隨同做調整稅務部分依款別以項為單位稅務部分依機關別以目為單位 依序審查第二"},{"start":1757.574,"end":1783.539,"text":"作業基金部分 照業務計畫 業務收支 截繳公庫淨額轉投資計畫 固定資產之建設 改良擴充及國庫增撥基金額等逐項審查第三 特別收入基金部分 照業務計畫 基金來源 用途 逐一作業 截繳公庫等逐項審查好現在請醫師一併詢讀今日審查項目與"},{"start":1787.321,"end":1816.672,"text":"委員會提案宣讀完畢之後我們再進行協商115年度行政院第五款第一項第二幕國家發展委員會及所屬稅錄第二款罰款及賠償收入第十項國家發展委員會無劣數第十一項檔案管理局一萬元第三款規費收入第七項檔案管理局一百二十三萬三千元第四款財產收入第十一項國家發展委員會八百零一萬五千元"},{"start":1817.133,"end":1841.317,"text":"十二項檔案管理局188萬第五款營業營餘及事業收入第一項行政院第二幕非營業特種基金剩餘繳庫100萬元第七款其他收入第十一項國家發展委員會351,000元第十二項檔案管理局219,000元稅出部分第二款行政院主管第六項國家發展委員會366,851,000元"},{"start":1845.168,"end":1848.957,"text":"第一幕一般行政83051萬5000元第二幕規劃及推動國家發展計劃綜合業務6231萬8000元第三幕"},{"start":1855.649,"end":1865.098,"text":"研擬經濟政策協調推動財經措施4990萬5千元第四目促進社會發展及計劃審議協調5465萬1千元第五目促進產業發展58741萬2千元第六目促進能力資源發展8592萬2千元第七目健全國土規劃及經營管理45397萬6千元"},{"start":1880.543,"end":1903.903,"text":"第八目 績效管理 四千六百八十二萬一千元第九目 健全資訊管理 提升應用效益 八千五百零二萬八千元第十目 推動法規鬆綁於革新 強化經濟競爭力 兩千七百二十九萬八千元第十一目 中興新春北中核心維運 四億一千八百一十萬五千元第十二目 非營業特種基金 九億元"},{"start":1904.543,"end":1911.447,"text":"第13目一般建築及設備400萬元第14目第一預備金90萬元第7項檔案管理局5億7852萬2千元第一目一般行政2億4835萬4千元第二目檔案管理應用1億6392萬9千元第三目文書檔案數位治理與智能"},{"start":1925.874,"end":1946.716,"text":"服務計畫一億一百三十七萬元第四幕國家記憶生化推動六千四百七十九萬兩千元第五幕第一預備金七萬七千元提案部分稅務部分第七款其他收入第一案雜項收入其他雜項收入增列一百萬元張家俊等人提案"},{"start":1947.951,"end":1975.444,"text":"稅出部分第六項國家發展委員會第二案媒體政策及業務宣導減列2322萬5千元洪玉祥等人提案第三案減列10%楊瓊英等人提案第四案規劃及推動國家發展計畫綜合業務減列10%楊瓊英委員提案第五案凍結1%謝一鳳等人提案第六案凍結60萬賴瑞榮等人提案第七案"},{"start":1977.273,"end":2004.481,"text":"規劃國家發展計畫凍結100萬元李玉玲等人提案 第八案推動國家發展之國際交流合作凍結100萬元洪玉祥等人提案 第九案推動淨林公正轉型凍結100萬元張家俊等人提案 第十案推動雙語政策凍結500萬元李玉玲等人提案 第十一案凍結300萬元邱志偉等人提案 第十二案凍結一趴邱毅英等人提案 第十三案凍結一趴謝亦鳳等人提案 第十四案"},{"start":2007.583,"end":2022.076,"text":"業務費凍結5%陳昌明等人提案第15案研擬經濟政策協調推動財經措施凍結3%鍾嘉斌等人提案第16案凍結100萬元陳廷飛等人提案第17案凍結50萬元賴若龍等人提案第18案經濟景氣情勢分析凍結100萬元李玲等人提案第19案凍結100萬元邱志偉等人提案第20案財經新"},{"start":2032.921,"end":2051.153,"text":"策略規劃研究行政院經濟發展委員會幕僚相關事業凍結50%張家俊等人提案21案協助國家永續發展目標之推動簡列1000萬元洪玉祥等人提案第22案凍結300萬元邱志偉等人提案第23案業務費"},{"start":2053.014,"end":2078.531,"text":"冻结5%陈超明等人提案第24案促进社会发展及计划审议协调冻结50万元赖瑞龙等人提案第25案重要社会发展政策研提资先期评估及咨询冻结100万元吕玲等人提案第26案业务费委办费冻结20%张家俊等人提案第27案施政知识社会参与及寻求"},{"start":2078.951,"end":2082.92,"text":"政決策AI幫手計畫 簡略200萬元 洪玉祥等人提案"},{"start":2083.444,"end":2109.564,"text":"第28案促進產業發展凍結一帕謝依鳳等人提案第29案凍結150萬元賴日榮等人提案第30案運用人工智慧帶動物聯網創新發展凍結5000萬元洪玉祥等人提案第31案凍結500萬元邱志偉等人提案第32案亞洲矽谷智慧創新及擴大國際布局整合平台計劃凍結一帕邱映英等人提案"},{"start":2110.184,"end":2134.564,"text":"第33案业务费冻结1000万元李玉玲等人提案第34案引进IC设计等国际半导体创新能量冻结1500万元李玉玲等人提案第35案冻结1000万元洪玉祥等人提案第36案推动创新布局全球行销国际冻结1000万元洪玉祥等人提案第37案促进能力资源发展减列120万元陈挺飞等人提案"},{"start":2135.148,"end":2150.392,"text":"第38案 凍結10%蔡玉瑜等人提案第39案 凍結10%蔡玉瑜等人提案第40案 凍結1%謝一鳳等人提案第41案 凍結80萬元賴瑞榮等人提案第42案 研議與協調推動人力資源相關政策及計劃凍結100萬元李玉琳等人提案第43案 凍結10%楊瓊瑩等人提案第44案 凍結10%蔡玉瑜等人提案第45案 推動人口"},{"start":2165.336,"end":2178.661,"text":"及移民政策強化延攬國際人才凍結10%蔡玉玉等人提案第46案凍結400萬元邱志偉等人提案第47案凍結1%邱毅英等人提案第48案凍結5%陳超明等人提案第49案健全國土規劃及經營管理減劣200萬元陳廷飛等人提案第50案減劣50萬元凍結150萬元賴瑞榮等人提案第51案凍結10%"},{"start":2192.486,"end":2199.973,"text":"楊瓊瑩等人提案 第52案 凍結5% 蔡玉玉等人提案第53案 凍結1% 謝一鳳等人提案第54案 公共建設計畫與區域離島發展政策之審議及協調 凍結50萬元 邱志偉等人提案第55案 業務費凍結20% 張家俊等人提案第56案 地方創生之協調推動 凍結1% 鄭征前委員提案"},{"start":2218.869,"end":2225.032,"text":"第57案凍結2000萬元呂玉玲等人提案第58案凍結1%邱毅英等人提案第59案凍結400萬邱志偉等人提案第60案業務費凍結5%陳昌明等人提案第61案績效管理凍結800萬元呂玉玲等人提案第62案"},{"start":2237.139,"end":2241.426,"text":"凍結400萬元邱志偉等人提案第63案凍結100萬元陳亭飛等人提案第64案凍結50萬元賴樂榮等人提案第65案凍結1%謝一鳳等人提案第66案政府績效升"},{"start":2250.069,"end":2273.342,"text":"政府績效全生命週期智慧管理及資料運用 凍結200萬元 邱志偉等人提案 第六期案健全資訊管理提升應用效率 減列1000萬元 賴紅玉祥等人提案 第六十八案減列50萬元 凍結100萬元 賴樂榮等人提案 第六十九案發展及管理國發資訊系統 凍結1000萬元 紅玉祥等人提案 第七十案資料傳"},{"start":2274.343,"end":2292.244,"text":"輸刃性強化計劃 凍結30萬元 洪玉祥等人提案 第71案推動法規鬆綁與革新 強化經貿競爭力法規透明及公民參與AI智能助理計劃 凍結3% 陳超明等人提案"},{"start":2294.026,"end":2304.769,"text":"2案中興新春北中核心維運減列8000萬元洪玉祥等人提案第73案凍結150萬元賴瑞榮等人提案第74案凍結100萬元陳昌明等人提案75案到107案主決議請參閱檔案管理局第7項檔案管理局108案"},{"start":2317.95,"end":2341.939,"text":"媒體政策及業務宣導 減列264萬6千元 洪玉祥等人提案第109案 業務費凍結300萬元 邱志偉等人提案110案 一般行政人員維持 減列150萬 陳廷飛等人提案111案 檔案管理局 減列100萬元 洪玉祥等人提案112案 文書檔案數位治理與智能服務計劃 減列500萬元 洪玉祥等人提案"},{"start":2342.579,"end":2345.34,"text":"113案檢列500萬元陳亭飛等人提案114案凍結500萬元邱志偉等人提案115案國家記憶深化推廣凍結2%陳亭飛等人提案116案國家檔案"},{"start":2358.308,"end":2365.135,"text":"管智慧化服務凍結500萬元李玉玲等人提案第117案凍結300萬元邱志偉等人提案118案至112案主決議請參閱行政院國家發展基金"},{"start":2373.547,"end":2377.93,"text":"業務計畫請參閱業務總收支370億1753萬8千元業務總支出79億9194萬6千元本期剩餘290億2559萬2千元結繳公庫金額100億投資轉投資計畫無劣數固定資產建設改良擴充3586萬5千元國庫增撥金額無劣數"},{"start":2402.233,"end":2412.638,"text":"離島建設基金業務計畫請參閱基金來源9億121萬7千元 基金用途9億176萬3千元本期短促54萬6千元 結繳公庫無劣數花東基金永續發展基金業務計畫請參閱基金來源600萬元 基金用途29億4208萬8千元本期短促29億3608萬8千元 結繳公庫無劣數"},{"start":2429.207,"end":2430.368,"text":"促进转型正义基金"},{"start":2446.222,"end":2458.513,"text":"業務計劃第一案各項投資100簡列1500萬元陳亭飛等人提案第二案凍結500萬元邱志偉等人提案第三案凍結250萬元賴日榮等人提案第四案直接投資各類企業"},{"start":2459.934,"end":2476.26,"text":"减列500万元陈廷飞等人提案冻结500万元邱志伟等人提案冻结500万元邱志伟等人提案加强投资中小企业实施方案冻结2000万元李毅林等人提案冻结500万元邱志伟等人提案中东欧投资基金"},{"start":2478.081,"end":2498.079,"text":"凍結500萬元呂玉玲等人提案加強投資AI新創實施方案凍結500萬元陳廷飛等人提案第11案服務費用一般服務費凍結1%謝一鳳等人提案第12案投融資業務成本凍結1億元呂玉玲等人提案第13案業務費用凍結10%蔣卓昀等人提案第14案"},{"start":2503.544,"end":2507.849,"text":"管理及總務費用減列5%楊瓊瑛等人提案第15案到第26案主決議請參閱離島建設基金提案部分第27案離島地區永續發展相關計畫減列800萬元陳廷飛等人提案第28案至第29案主決議請參閱"},{"start":2523.905,"end":2550.105,"text":"花東地區永續發展基金提案部分第三十案花東地區永續發展相關計畫凍結一千萬元陳亭飛等人提案第三十一案至第三十二案主決議請參閱促進轉型正義基金提案第三十三案推動各項轉型正義計畫減列五百萬元陳亭飛等人提案第三十四案凍結兩百萬元邱志偉等人提案第三十五案主決議請參閱宣讀完畢"},{"start":2553.117,"end":2579.322,"text":"好這個一次人員很辛苦宣讀了花卉跟主管包括這個檔案管理局總共有100121案基金的部分有35案現在沒有辦法處理因為人數不夠兩位找我沒辦法處理沒有辦法處理這個預算來"},{"start":2594.315,"end":2600.439,"text":"好 現在在場人數與打法令人數請問在場各位人上次的會議事錄有錯誤沒有錯誤 我們議事錄確定好剛剛這個"},{"start":2617.284,"end":2643.28,"text":"委員提案都已經宣讀了我們現在來處理來我們主案處理先看稅務部分稅務部分來第一案第一案張家俊委員不在那第一案照列第二案第三案一併處理有洪義祥委員跟楊全英委員"},{"start":2665.113,"end":2668.056,"text":"第2案 除以第2案 第3案 第2案有何意見委員"},{"start":2669.133,"end":2682.835,"text":"侯委員你要不要說明一下好 我大概說明一下主要是翁曉琳就說整個在媒體的廣宣的費用按由我想國發會這邊應該都自己會看得很清楚"},{"start":2683.618,"end":2703.712,"text":"那主要的話就是說現在我們的預算已經是成長的幅度很高那在這種比較媒體政策廣宣的一個效果來講或者是這個預算的編列那麼我們這些委員是覺得好像不需要編列那麼高所以呢小林等他們就是提案就是簡略"},{"start":2705.6,"end":2724.048,"text":"這個2325萬 22萬5千那這個基本上來講跟這個等一下這個案子應該楊瓊英的委員應該也差不多大概就簡略了這個10%就這個第二個提案的話這個國發會不曉得有沒有去找小林委員做說明"},{"start":2734.867,"end":2762.095,"text":"委員我們有送書面資料給小林委員跟他說明我們有必要編列的理由 謝謝因為這個翁小林提案是檢列九成以上楊瓊玉提案是檢列百分之十這個差異非常巨大第二案第三案我們暫不處理 待會回頭再處理所以從第四案到第十四案一併處理"},{"start":2764.062,"end":2777.771,"text":"在場委員 有提案委員 有本席 還有呂玲委員 還有洪祥委員中央運運委員有沒有提案 中央運運委員沒有提案來 兩位委員有沒有要說明來 那個林運運委員"},{"start":2779.669,"end":2793.293,"text":"我的提案是第九案因為我們的國發基金應該是對於我們的民主夥伴的關係來互惠的基礎的原則上但是因為我們跟中東歐國家沒有正式的邦交我們希望說我們國發會能夠把這些"},{"start":2797.594,"end":2817.362,"text":"要強化這些國家的一些業務往來的不管是經貿啊或者是產業方面等等的這個參與這個空間的能見度等等這個理念能夠做一個完整的報告像我們立法院委員會來提出書面報告我們才來動之所以我在這一項先凍結500萬請國發會把詳細的說明做出書面報告"},{"start":2826.332,"end":2838.807,"text":"我的第八案是在這個轄下底下的推動國家發展的國家去交流主要根據他們這個預算這邊或計畫書寫的大概編列的大概600多"},{"start":2840.199,"end":2857.234,"text":"那問題就是說在中東歐融資基金到時候有請他們來跟我溝通但還是語音不詳那這個預算有時候還是亂編或者亂編就是說你的這個預算的這個支出啊比如說保證金啊輿促等等"},{"start":2857.914,"end":2877.819,"text":"那個東西當然是編在你的這個我們講這個一般的這個業務預算補貼代帳可是你用人的話應該是編到這個行政預算裡面去所以我是覺得說另外一個的話就是你的計畫的一個成果因為你的回函給我來溝通的話是還是什麼密件處理事實解密中"},{"start":2879.039,"end":2903.241,"text":"我也不曉得這個中東或融資有什麼好要加密不解密有些是可以有些又不行那也不曉得你們的標準是什麼所以我是希望說在這個你們的這個國際的業務推動這個都支持但是我就是建議凍結100萬就是你們把這個成果跟我稍微初步報告之後做專案報告再得以這個"},{"start":2904.397,"end":2916.763,"text":"好 謝謝黃議長委員本席第11案 本席第11案跟陳昌明委員第14案都改成組決議楊委員你有提案第4案李委員"},{"start":2923.14,"end":2942.872,"text":"主席我們要討論到第14案是不是對 10到14一併處理 是好我還有一個12案12案這個是我們那個國發基金的一個投資項目那我們投資了73間民營企業但是有37間陷入虧損還有整個市場需求的這個下滑整個"},{"start":2944.252,"end":2971.855,"text":"資金或投資金額都需要被回收我們應該把國發基金要強化轉化其他的投資我們要做好這個監督跟管理所以我們希望整個是協助產業這個創新的轉型跟我們永續的發展才是我們的目標所以在這方面的話我們希望國發基金能夠針對這個投資這個成本這個明細表之整個有虧損的情形跟我們做詳細的報告所以"},{"start":2972.555,"end":2977.239,"text":"提出順便放話之後的話 才能動之 在這一部分我先動靜一議好 下一位請楊全英委員"},{"start":2984.279,"end":3011.437,"text":"本席所提出的是第四案對 原先我是說這個在這個項下是減劣10%那就是247萬那經過單位有來做充分溝通那我們是將這個刪減提案刪除預算10%改為凍結10%那最重要的就是我們希望因為現在"},{"start":3012.978,"end":3039.627,"text":"在整個五大洲裡頭大家的投資方向那變化非常的大所以我們勉勵國發會必須要好好加油在整個國家的希望工程施政的目標要能夠落實所以包括了兆元推投資方案以及產業創新的這個計畫我們也已經後會很多年包括我們所提案"},{"start":3040.287,"end":3047.853,"text":"希望在新創的部分要怎麼樣去協助因為變化非常的大以往可能你一個"},{"start":3051.433,"end":3074.666,"text":"這個工廠或者是工作或者是工程它必須要很多人但是現在有很多一個人他可以去創造很多的產資因為有AI有所有的這個資訊方面以及設備的一個全自動化所以我個人認為國家希望工程要怎麼樣在我們的市政目標裡頭能夠去完成"},{"start":3076.627,"end":3093.832,"text":"落實這非常重要所以最後我們調整了要求這個國防會呢應該就相關的問題提出說明在三個月內向立法院經濟委員會提出書面報告使得動之以上"},{"start":3094.995,"end":3111.591,"text":"雖然4到14本席只有連署並沒有主要提案但是我非常肯定剛剛集會委員發言對於我們過去預算執行的一些需要改進的地方要求要提出說明"},{"start":3112.071,"end":3134.807,"text":"那也謝謝楊瓊英委員剛剛把簡列案改成一個凍結案那既然表示這個意思是什麼呢表示說委員們對於這些預算的這個需求是肯定的但是在預算的執行上呢需要再更精進那因此呢多半會以凍結的方式來提出那要求書面報告後呢得到委員得到一個疑難解答之後才來進行"},{"start":3135.848,"end":3156.511,"text":"但是陳儒現在召委在這裡,我們都在這裡,我們現在在審的是今年度的預算這應該是去年8月之後9月開始審的那接下來我們今年9月之後要開始審明年度的預算那其實我們會發現當今年的預算還沒審閉就在開始執行的過程當中其實凍結的用意其實效益會比較不明顯"},{"start":3157.512,"end":3172.748,"text":"那與其這樣是不是我們可以踐行因為有的包括主席也改成主決議了嘛所以如果是踐行我們委員可以考慮凍結的部分因為如果說認為這預狀不應該使用因為有很多的凍結呢在過去的年度"},{"start":3173.608,"end":3201.079,"text":"來不及報告來不及解凍年度就結束了有的呢拖到11月12月再來解凍實際上也無法執行了那為了避免這種名為凍結實質會是簡略也造成業務機關的困擾那是不是說我們今天這些預算剛解的案子呢都是建議是凍結那提出報告時的凍資那要報告再凍資我們下年度我們要審預算的時候他再來報告凍資啊也會佔用到我們委員會的審查能量"},{"start":3201.579,"end":3227.621,"text":"那我是不是建議說我們後續如果委員可以接受的話我們可以用組決議的方式那把具體書面報告的內容的要求給他點出來像剛剛的那個洪委員講得非常好啊他們對於中東貨的資金的使用上是不是有哪些問題需要明白的列出來啊哪些是屬於機密還不能解密的那不能講的暫時還不能講可以說的就在在那個改成組決議的時候呢來提出好不好啊以上建議"},{"start":3228.021,"end":3247.567,"text":"好謝謝莊先生委員的寶貴的意見那個是不是這樣大家都有共識了齁這個包括我跟陳昌明改成這個主決議但是薛一鋒委員是凍結1%是62萬等一下我處理楊卓英委員改成這個不檢滅改成凍結1%10%就是600萬我的那個第7案跟第10案改成主決議好謝謝"},{"start":3258.342,"end":3283.539,"text":"第七案跟第十案原本是凍結一百萬跟凍結五百萬改成組決議所以現在就是說剩下楊瓊英委員跟這個謝玉鳳委員的這個提案都是凍結所以我是不是總建議謝玉鳳委員是凍結一趴一趴就是六十二萬這個楊瓊英委員是凍十趴那主席是不是建議凍五趴"},{"start":3290.693,"end":3309.881,"text":"我覺得我們經濟委員會是最和諧的沒有說凍結書面報告會引起實質的刪除這一句話我一定要嚴明清楚因為我覺得我們立法院不要我們是自己立法委員還要講錯誤的訊息書面報告不是專案報告"},{"start":3311.101,"end":3321.019,"text":"對不對 你只要你行政部門送出書面我們代表人民來 我們連他怎麼樣能夠落實國家希望工程我們都不得而知"},{"start":3322.335,"end":3333.964,"text":"做組決議我們今天只是請你做書面報告送到經濟委員會就使得動之哪有什麼實質刪除這個我絕對提出嚴正的抗議因為我們經濟委員會是最和諧的不能把錯誤的訊息給民眾要醜化任何一個委員這是不對的"},{"start":3346.073,"end":3349.036,"text":"我們是立法委員我們一定要講對的事情給你知道我們是鼓勵行政部門民眾希望聽到這麼多的錢你要怎麼規劃嘛"},{"start":3369.634,"end":3385.06,"text":"對不對 楊小英委員 提醒啦 怎麼可以這樣子說呢非常肯定您 第一個 楊委員所言甚是動結是給他們提醒啦 做報告聽您一言 如長夜得明燈所以陣容發聵"},{"start":3388.021,"end":3407.212,"text":"沒有手劃的問題啦我要高度肯定的認為這個沒有檢疫大豆公司是這個凍結凍結就是希望行政部門希望國會能夠更精進的作為提出書面報告之後就得凍結嘛照案報告就很麻煩嘛你還要另外排一層所以啊"},{"start":3409.614,"end":3430.355,"text":"我要勉勵我們國發會 像新創的行業已經在社會在全球都已經如火如荼的在執行之我們行政院部門自己國發會到現在都還沒有版本委員有版本 你們都沒有版本 你們難道不接地氣嗎"},{"start":3431.736,"end":3455.627,"text":"我們國發會我們是非常的看重是國家經濟很重要的靈魂頭腦心臟你到現在你還沒有版本什麼理由嘛對不對所以我要拜託啦真的這麼重要的單位你們要跟五大洲的這個產業去接軌我們立法委員都已經提案了你們還沒有版本到底你們是不重視還是怎麼樣對不對"},{"start":3457.368,"end":3474.888,"text":"這個我跟楊學文報告 這個《國安法》一段審完之後我會繼續排《財政條例》的審查這基本上我們兩個版本 基本上是北統他們是因為啊 高度佔他們是高度佔成你我的版本 所以他們就不另提版本是這個意思"},{"start":3478.231,"end":3483.875,"text":"主席我可以說話一下嗎其實我們都是願意給國發會的葉主委一個說明的機會那因為葉主委身體微癢我看他最近可能好一點了"},{"start":3502.609,"end":3524.462,"text":"最近可能好一點 可以去總統府了嘛那所以代表未來也要儘快來跟立法院報告嘛如果國發會的業務進行的非常有效率的話那也要說明給立法院知道嘛那為什麼在過去就是提案的說明都是主委帶隊來的"},{"start":3525.723,"end":3536.871,"text":"這是委員會就是本委員會裡面都是主委帶隊現在他用身體為樣都不能來跟大家說明謝謝委員說明據我瞭解他跟經濟部部長去參加台灣誰都知道台灣"},{"start":3541.954,"end":3562.167,"text":"這個重量大概去了十幾天所以這部分我拜託這個國會團隊如果委員還有這個提案有一些不了解的部分再請同仁加強跟委員做個別的說明這個我會再責成這個國會我會再請國會主委我們做第四案第十四案的處理"},{"start":3563.568,"end":3583.524,"text":"好 第二幕原列6231萬8千元我們凍結5%然後提出書面報告之後一個月之內提出書面報告之後 始得凍之好 謝謝我們接下來處理第三幕的部分那個主席我再補充一下我的那個"},{"start":3588.137,"end":3615.619,"text":"我的第八案那個不要專題報告就改書面報告就可以了對對對書面報告第八案對我們一起處理剛剛主席已經宣讀了就是改書面報告之後實在是一個日子內好所以第三幕啊第三幕原列事件九百九十萬五千元我們提案大家請各位委員看一下從第十五案一起到這個二十三案有鍾嘉斌委員 陳立方委員 李玲委員"},{"start":3616.789,"end":3638.46,"text":"郭文祥委員等提案來 陳婉嫻委員謝謝主席我的這個案子其實是希望說因為我們國發會它是在整個協助國家永續發展目標的推動那在它向下有幾個我們的指標"},{"start":3639.78,"end":3663.968,"text":"我們都在做控管 其中有49像是進度落後包括我們現在其實在台南說真的在整個道路交通事故的死亡其實我們也一直在改進我們所有的路口那為什麼在這個部分我們希望能夠有一個比較重要的一個指標跟說明所以"},{"start":3665.348,"end":3684.028,"text":"還有我們再生能源累積的裝置容量的部分為什麼已經連續五年未達目標值這個我們希望有一個說明所以我本來是凍結但是我現在不予凍結那我希望說我們國發會我把它改成組決議"},{"start":3685.809,"end":3710.398,"text":"改善組決議就是說希望是不是有一個改善的方向為什麼這幾項一直到目前為止都沒有辦法達到我們的目標值問題在哪裡應該在這個我們未來的趨勢當中提出我們的做法好 謝謝好 謝謝石定謙委員 接下來請鍾教平委員好 我的是第15案"},{"start":3711.238,"end":3733.943,"text":"那剛剛聽了主席的一席話看我們委員的資深委員的一個說明本來想說既然凍結的話提出書面報告就可以動之是我們的一個好的傳統不影響我們部會的運作不過既然剛剛陳委員提到說改成組決議我第15案因為我要求的書面報告的內容也很具體那他把這個書面報告提出來就可以了那也不用涉及到凍結就是改成組決議謝謝"},{"start":3735.168,"end":3762.355,"text":"好 謝謝中間委員本席所提第19案跟20案這個跟這個中間委員一樣都改成主決議好 政務委員還有誰 林委員好 主席我的是第18案那我們這項這部分的項目是要來研究我們國內外的這經濟變動來經濟整個景氣來做參考依據在我們行政院的主計總署在2月份的時候就做出一些評估"},{"start":3763.055,"end":3772.663,"text":"包括就是我們像全球的AI的商機跟我們出口值都要穩健的成長我們115年全年的經濟成長大概會達到7.71%但是美國關稅反覆不定還有美伊戰爭都可能造成全球性的通貨膨脹造成我們出口產值的整個產業的構成不確定性的變數所以我們希望國發會能夠密切的關注整個局勢的發展"},{"start":3791.719,"end":3816.425,"text":"來做出及時的應應的這個措施所以我這一案的話給予我們發揮的鼓勵我希望他能夠改成書面跟我報告然後做成主決議好謝謝林玉玲委員發案者改成主決議陳超銘委員第23案也改成主決議好安良惠委員要發言來洪義強委員我的是這個第21案"},{"start":3817.472,"end":3844.944,"text":"第21案的話主要是我們在講國家的一個永續的經營這邊看看你們的一個報告跟你們來溝通的因為我們在永續發展委員會所公布的大概有18項核心目標143項的具體目標我去看一下你們自己整體說84.76是符合預期但是可能還有15.2多的%這個指標的推動進度是落後"},{"start":3845.524,"end":3870.201,"text":"那我一直覺得國發會的定位是統籌協調追蹤檢討可是你們可能就是把這種所謂比較要細部研究然後落後指標怎麼改善的具體的這個做法全部都把它變成是這種活動的外包跟媒宣的這個支出比如說你們就自己編列了推廣永續發展淨零箱活動361萬然後還搞個什麼永續等發展媒體宣傳又一樣337萬"},{"start":3876.064,"end":3893.693,"text":"然后有个2050近年城市展国际论坛也是一种活动都是1300万所以活动展览宣传伟办都不是针对落后指标的治理工具啊你跟这个以前我们在McKinsey或者是在这一个Essential的这种consultant的这种company的做法"},{"start":3894.173,"end":3915.16,"text":"那完全就是很奇怪就不一樣就是你不是把這些活動沒選搞完然後就可以說我的指標就可以達成啊然後再加上你們過去的紀律我在擔任召委審理你們的那個報告期間連那個統整會整的數字啊都跟經濟部等等什麼都對不太齊啊"},{"start":3916.377,"end":3933.792,"text":"好像你們的再生能源比例什麼發電比例都對不起來你們這種文字這種內容連續彙整各部分各單位的這都會有問題以後我就更擔心了你們AI新十大建設彙整那麼多部會那更是問題"},{"start":3934.873,"end":3957.001,"text":"所以我覺得國家永續的推動發展並不是在搞媒體廣宣而是說針對這些目標你的action plan是什麼為什麼你要這樣做那我這樣的做法為什麼不能夠達到這樣的目標所以你還提出什麼樣的做法你這種東西的話倒不如學這個什麼國科或是我們公研院的這種所謂的科學首席論壇這種可能"},{"start":3959.765,"end":3973.409,"text":"還比較有意義所以我才說你們這種東西預算編列雖然是已經年終過一半但是我還是很看不下去所以我才提出簡略一千萬那你們有什麼看法行政院公務主委答覆"},{"start":3978.394,"end":3990.853,"text":"跟委員報告一下那個永續發展的目標我們有四個工作小組每個工作小組中間都有各個部會那各個部會就負責要用他們部會的預算去達成他們要達到的政策目標"},{"start":3994.398,"end":4014.203,"text":"那所有的 我們都會例行 我們都會開會工作小組 我們的永續會的工作會議還有行政院的工作會議都會折承 用會議的方式折承各部會已經要達到他永續發展的目標那各部會也要用他部會的預算去促成目標的達成所以他不會編列在我們這個永續會的"},{"start":4018.944,"end":4040.004,"text":"因為我們只有編了三千多萬那三千多萬就是因為我們國發會作為永續會的秘書處那我們秘書處呢我們其實目標達成是各部會的執掌跟職責我們負責做協調監督的角色是不太需要用到經費因為那個就是我本身的業務執掌那為什麼我們有了錢譬如說我們會辦一個永續"},{"start":4045.048,"end":4067.679,"text":"因為我們要有棒子也要有胡蘿蔔那我們就是要鼓勵就是永續獎我說錯了永續獎我們要鼓勵政府部門民間部門都要投入到我們的這個永續的活動所以我們有個永續獎需要經費另外一個呢我們永續呢也要跟國際鏈結所以我們有一個永續的活動叫做靜寧城市展"},{"start":4069.02,"end":4084.982,"text":"國際峰會這時候是有全球的所有的這個海外的專家來到台灣來然後跟我們託商有關永續相關的作為那我們也希望藉由這個展會我們會展示各個部會的永續發展的成果"},{"start":4085.743,"end":4111.799,"text":"所以這個就是檢視部會的成果然後我們也會希望藉由這個展會讓這些我們有去發展的一些國際的新資可以到台灣來所以我跟委員報告一下我們基本上是用這樣的方式來做明白啦就是說因為我也做過二十幾年辦活動搞這些獎絕對對我們國家任何的發展指標一點幫助都沒有"},{"start":4113.157,"end":4129.738,"text":"所以你看我是很勇敢的喔大家都是凍結喔所以我本人非常有guts告訴你說我就是簡烈就表示我對這個東西是非常的不滿意啊我所謂的不滿意是在於是說我們如果要把國家的永續經營目標達到"},{"start":4132.247,"end":4152.251,"text":"那我會怎麼做嘛那怎麼做的時候你是一個統籌協調的單位你應該辦的是說各部會的這些的action plan是有問題而這個問題我請了McKinsey我請了誰誰我來做好這些整個東西的規劃比你去參加什麼自己伴樂團自己嗨自己爽還比較重要"},{"start":4153.071,"end":4177.422,"text":"我想委員的意見我們會參考在我們下一個年度預算的編列那因為今年的年度已經到年終了那是不是也懇請委員那我們今年那我們明年呢我們會參考委員的意見我們可以把我們的預算裡面再重新增配做調整這樣子好了啦我也肯定你的過去也是到年終了啦好不好我改成凍結500然後你交書面報告專程來跟我報告"},{"start":4181.684,"end":4207.629,"text":"沒問題我會跟委員報告就你不要再每一次因為1.16又來了我對這個事很痛苦你各位可以看我的預算只有我這麼有尷尬只敢砍你一下OK 好那我們會再跟委員報告每一個人都很有尷尬坐在這邊要審查國家預算真的是很用心的我們不是說檢驗就有尷尬然後凍結就沒有尷尬應該都是一樣有尷尬都是為了國家好來"},{"start":4211.125,"end":4235.418,"text":"那個內容謝謝你回來啦謝謝這個我想高雄很多的重大的公共工程那真的也需要加速來完成那管考這塊還是要拜託國發會要加速來推動因為很多的重大工程往往稍微不注意就拖延到時間那很多的包括我跟邱委員的選區很多的重大工程"},{"start":4236.138,"end":4258.781,"text":"往往騎乘都有時候會不斷的拖延所以這個還是要請國發會要盯緊跟各部要盯緊該給一定的壓力要給一定的壓力不要讓整個重大的騎乘拖延那另外還要審查很多案件的審查過程也要請國發會加快那個速度好不好這副主委很有經驗也希望加快速度好不好不要讓國家的重大每個重大工程拖延就引導國家的重大的產業發展"},{"start":4259.722,"end":4273.829,"text":"根據委員報告 其實我們現在國發會的委員會裡面我們至少每一季都會安排一次的中大公共工程的管考作業所以如果有任何部會有拖延或延遲的時候我們都會盡到監督的責任 謝謝委員的提醒"},{"start":4278.011,"end":4299.924,"text":"謝謝主席 楊卿發言我覺得我們黃召偉講得非常有道理因為我每一次在經濟委員會或者是院會質詢的時候我都一直很重視很尊敬國發會因為國發會是一個我剛才講的它是頭腦是心臟它是在整個橫向聯繫非常重要我舉一個例子我們說少子化"},{"start":4300.504,"end":4308.407,"text":"我每次在這邊問 每次都 我說你們編列那些預算你們都告訴我們說 這是哪一個為吳鋪的 這是內政鋪的 這是哪一個的那你們國發會做什麼所以 剛剛吳委員講的很有道理啊 你本身你既然是一個統籌者 你更應該各部會的業務事宜應該要清楚的去聯繫啊"},{"start":4327.234,"end":4351.822,"text":"這個才是重點啊不管你未來辦什麼成果也好那你才會真正有成果啊而不是每一年都固定就是這樣的一個樣態嘛因為我們的事項內容是在改變的這很重要啊而不是國發會每次都回答我我相信我們各經濟委員會的委員都有這個感受每一次問他這個是內政部的啊這個是誰的"},{"start":4353.422,"end":4372.732,"text":"那你經濟不便利這件預算要做什麼我都一直說橫向的聯繫你們這些業務因為他只有獨立的單位成就不了一個業務的一個落實他必須要橫向聯繫就是你們的角色啊好不好我還是很希望這個觀念務必一定要去把它落實啊"},{"start":4374.113,"end":4396.702,"text":"我想謝謝委員啦的確我們國發會應該站在國家整體發展的角度針對跨部會議題或協調部分我們要有個總體的計畫其實像今天剛剛主委會去參加那個國安會議其實就是針對少子化我們國發會扮演一個整體從頭的角色他去報告少子化的相關對策也許等一下總統就會公佈下一位請蔡議員好謝謝主席"},{"start":4401.929,"end":4418.154,"text":"那因為現在是討論到這個國家永續的一個發展那事實上我還是會去想到說我們事實上在處理淨零碳排那到目前為止淨零碳排的這一塊那國安會很多事實上你們都把責任直接推給環境部"},{"start":4420.122,"end":4431.749,"text":"因為環境部事實上在做淨零碳排的時候包括說這些研究方法到底我們的碳匯碳權怎麼計算這些事情看起來到現在進度非常慢"},{"start":4433.222,"end":4459.619,"text":"進度而且幾乎是沒有進度的那國安會站在你們應該是有點是督促的角色你們應該也是會希望這件事是加速的對然後你們也是編了這樣預算去說這個研擬經濟政策協調推動財經措施協助國家永續發展這個項目是這樣但是看起來很多時候事實上跟你們講的時候你們說這個是環境部"},{"start":4461.8,"end":4480.416,"text":"主責 結果好像沒有你們的事那這樣去編的這樣的預算 結果感覺上你們在做督促的這一塊你們的感受又不見了 這個我是絕對應該要檢討的我可以跟委員報告一下嗎我請你答覆 請高副主委答覆"},{"start":4481.786,"end":4498.784,"text":"稍微我想跟委員報告一下那個在總體檢探的時候我們國發會提出了一個國家總體檢探的行動計畫那包括我們六大部門的檢探的目標那我們事實上是統合了相關部會然後有六大的制度創新"},{"start":4499.625,"end":4515.281,"text":"包括您剛才說的碳費有價就是碳費的這一塊那基本上我們國發會是扮演整體的總體減碳的行動計畫至於六大部門的具體行動方案就有各個六大部門的組織單位 比如說是像那個人員的"},{"start":4517.023,"end":4537.759,"text":"檢探行動計畫就是經濟部在做 製造部門也是那環境部門就是環境部在做那環境部目前其實他還負責一個就是我們永續會裡面我們有個經營專案小組的幕僚作業好那所以我們彼此我們跟我們國我們國防會跟環境部是有彼此的分工的不過就經營檢探這個這個這個項目來說總體檢探行動計畫協調"},{"start":4543.883,"end":4570.313,"text":"各個部會應該做的相關措施的確是國發會提出來的可能大家因為我們在我們在那個總統府報告過一次可能大家比較不是那麼清楚以上跟好謝謝高屋主委的答覆好我們現在處理第三幕原定4995萬5000元所有委員提案都改成這個主決議只有洪玉祥委員改成簡列不是改成凍結500萬"},{"start":4571.713,"end":4597.222,"text":"那主席這邊是不是來稍微做一些調整如果不要到五百萬那個洪委員如果凍結主要意思是希望他們提出更精進的作為也會這個專程去跟你做說明所以主席建議是不是凍結三百萬提出書面報告之後得凍制一個月之內那也要專程去跟這個洪議長委員做說明好啊 可以啊好"},{"start":4602.615,"end":4619.709,"text":"現在居住第四幕 促進社會發展及計劃生意協調原定數5460萬1千元好 我們看第一提案 第24案到27案第四幕 有賴右榮 李玉琳 張嘉峻 洪耀強委員提案提案委員有沒有要說明請李玉琳委員"},{"start":4621.645,"end":4632.189,"text":"主席我的是24案這個項目是針對我們社會有重大議題要做一個先期的評估跟政策的研究那尤其是以少子化的問題根據我們內政部的統計110年到"},{"start":4637.11,"end":4656.838,"text":"110年起我們台灣的出生率已經低於死亡率了114年也高達了十萬七千八百一十二位所以出生率的人數已經跌破了歷史的新低那針對這少子化也會影響到我們整個這個經濟的成長跟所得的分配居住正義跟各層面的問題所以我希望我們國發會能夠通盤的來規劃提高我們的"},{"start":4660.7,"end":4678.25,"text":"育兒的支持跟減輕居住的負擔到改善的薪資的結構跟整個就業的環境都要納入這整體的這個政策的思維才能夠解決我們少子化的問題所以我們請國發會做書面報告在這邊我可以少動一點 凍結100萬您提案就凍結100還是這個還是主席議員"},{"start":4687.974,"end":4712.145,"text":"改組決議 可他在針對少子化的問題做出個解決的方案好 這個謝謝林議員 我們要數完改組決議那提案委員還有 來來 荒鄉委員這個我的是第27案我對於你們這一支實在是我實在是看不懂施政知識社會參與局 行政決策AI幫手計畫"},{"start":4714.107,"end":4737.615,"text":"請在場各位委員或是你們自己看這如果看完這是在做什麼這實在是非常神奇什麼叫行政決策AI幫手然後什麼叫施政知識社會參與然後做了這些東西來講的話是到底你自己做做來用什麼你的使用對象是誰你要解決什麼問題"},{"start":4739.38,"end":4745.325,"text":"你們現在很多的東西都是為了AI而AI這樣子完全搞不清楚你們要幹嘛這可以說明一下哪一處的業務請組長說明"},{"start":4755.572,"end":4768.882,"text":"這個案子的話主要是因為配合那個新十大建設推動方案跟智慧政府的整體發展的策略推動那在那個速發部這邊有針對各部會的一個智慧政府的數位化的經濟發展計畫裡面都有叫讓部會"},{"start":4771.844,"end":4790.515,"text":"提出他自己業務上的一個精進的一個做法一個處理那以我們現在今天提出來這個子計畫主要是因為國安會這邊在辦理設法計畫的審議的時候常常是一方面是人員非常的人力越來越少然後另外就是說我們在整個計劃案越來越多那"},{"start":4791.535,"end":4807.509,"text":"過去也累積很多一些所謂的政府施政跟計劃的經驗資料在那我們希望透過資料科學的方法把這些做行政質疑的角度來做一個處理然後導入AI的協作希望用這樣的方式來協助計劃的審議的作業"},{"start":4812.673,"end":4834.031,"text":"把這個計畫經驗轉成過來,那透過說至少在計畫審議的作業過程裡面,這些計畫的審議人員可以減輕這些負擔,而是專注聚焦在所謂的一個政策思考,而不要去做這些過去的一些書面的資料的一個整理,或者前置的一個整理的一個策略的一個重點。"},{"start":4834.671,"end":4862.084,"text":"所以透過這個方式的話這個案子的主要的一個使用對象是本會還有計劃審議機關這相關的主辦人員主審人員的部分那工作項目主要是希望透過AI服務的需求評估跟資料這些整備來做所謂的資料盤點盤整跟品質的評估然後希望藉由所謂AI的一些相關的協助服務導入在系統開發裡面結合像RAC技術或者LFM這種生成"},{"start":4863.144,"end":4873.053,"text":"大型原資料庫的話來規劃建置所謂的個案計畫的審議這個協作的一個處理的一個系統的操作請問你是什麼處的報告委員是社發處社會發展處市長你之前有沒有跟黃委員說明過"},{"start":4879.238,"end":4903.738,"text":"因為我們同仁就是說那天剛好就是昨天就有到委員辦公室先報告那委員辦公室這邊的主任跟那個助理部分是說因為我們也知道洪委員是這方面的專家那個助理跟主任這邊希望說我們另外也提個書面說明我們書面書面也有呈報給委員這邊因為我聽你講完就完全還是不合格"},{"start":4907.148,"end":4929.902,"text":"我的意思是說第一個你做一個案子他要做多久然後你做的剛剛的目的其實還不是很清楚比如說假設你要做一個這麼樣偉大的我講偉大就是說你要做這樣子的一個所謂的比如說不管是提案的檢測或者是過去施政的東西的會診會息這也不是這一筆錢可以搞定的"},{"start":4930.758,"end":4956.336,"text":"因為你的RAG這些要建設一個東西然後你的LOM要train成你們自己國發會的vertical domain的made model那又是一筆錢然後再下一個再往下去我剛才問你是設發處嘛所以你也不是資訊處啊你這些規格完全也不是很清楚啊然後你假設你要哪一個LOM的model再往下去淬鍊不知道那你後面還有治安的問題我是說這個東西為什麼要你們來做"},{"start":4960.714,"end":4988.888,"text":"我講白了 速發部不能做嗎 速發部就叫他做完給你們用就好啦包委員速發部的部分他主要是針對他自己整個整個市政府部門的結構的部分那我速發處這邊的話因為我們之前有嘗試去做這個部分的處理那畢竟社會發展計畫這邊只是一個開端那麼會裡面還有包括公共建設計畫其他的也有同時在運作"},{"start":4989.748,"end":4997.036,"text":"所以政府計畫體系的一個運作處理並不是單單只有這個部分那剛剛委員提到所謂的的確這需要花一筆錢但這筆錢的話至少我們這邊在書發部這邊爭取經費的時候以努力跟他們爭取過那現在來講書發部這邊經過以專家的一個嚴格的審議之後也希望透過這次的一個"},{"start":5011.39,"end":5034.97,"text":"類似有點示範的方式來試行一個處理因為我們知道像委員所提示的AI的技術的話是一直在熱心願意我們也會盡量往這方面來跟著做所以這部分的話至少在我們過去也有嘗試進行部分的因為計畫類別太多像今年這次提案我的意思是這樣子我不希望每一個部會都做"},{"start":5035.919,"end":5053.531,"text":"我真的不希望理解你就是速發部做完對不對然後他穿到各個部會區域的時候那他應該要自己出錢去做完然後給你國發部那是使用者單位並不是一個開發單位國發部應該是給他需求像你們這個東西也是外包出去"},{"start":5055.091,"end":5081.432,"text":"是吧 應該是公開招待外包給外面的廠商或系統嘛是 但是對 你的連規格都不會開的時候你的架構你的這些所有的Security或是AI的Adjudgment的話我覺得這個都是有問題的啊張市長這個05向下施政知識社會參與及行政決策AI棒的計畫是新增的計畫去年有沒有去年是另外一個你這個計畫05向下是今年度才有是不是"},{"start":5085.529,"end":5093.301,"text":"去年就有了嗎?對那去年成果應該給委員會看你到底花了將近一千萬你做了哪些事情啊?這個話為什麼不呼?"},{"start":5096.998,"end":5117.467,"text":"他現在講這個沒有了洪義祥的提案啊去年的題目不一樣去年是走資料科學的部分他是針對一個政策跟社會議題去做處理那同時也我們做一些拍了那今年是根據之前的拍了的話再往前走那我們希望是聚焦在所謂的社會發展計畫的審議那除了如同好那就這個洪遠"},{"start":5124.505,"end":5133.351,"text":"我是建議你講的有道理我覺得你對這個你是專家是不是不要簡略針對這個社會處這個社會法案處這個979萬你所提的9000元我們這個是不是可以凍結提出書面報告凍結10%"},{"start":5148.939,"end":5170.466,"text":"好 多取10% 就這項二期案多取10%提出說明報告之後 然後專程去跟洪委員做說明謝謝委員一個月之內好 洪委員謝謝來 楊瓊洋委員謝謝主席 楊瓊洋發言高副主委在這裡 待會可能葉主委來 我覺得這個問題很嚴重"},{"start":5172.847,"end":5185.825,"text":"我剛才說的是你們是掌管統籌橫向各部會通通各自為政你們當然沒有辦法掌管你們目前的狀態是如此你們自己內部也是如此"},{"start":5187.461,"end":5212.541,"text":"所以我們有數位局應該照理講有的工具出來有一個樣板工具出來大家可以怎麼樣去節省在經濟部裡的相關產發署等目前也是這麼做那現在去年剛剛主席台召委所請問的去年的不是這個向下內容不是這個那你們每一年做一點做一點做一點那你們又跟各部會又都不連不連貫不連貫不連貫"},{"start":5214.662,"end":5236.328,"text":"那你們又說你們的人力不足 那我們國家的行政效率怎麼辦怎麼辦 這個是非常嚴肅而且嚴重的一個問題這也就是我經常在經委會 我一直在講一直在講 可是你們都沒有去做調整啊所以你預算送來真的就是如此啊各部位各自做各自的 就像社會現在議題最嚴重的 獨家"},{"start":5239.029,"end":5256.502,"text":"獨家的我們問內政部 問交通部 問警政單位 問司法單位有沒有橫向連在一起我們講了很多次 現在終於有說要弄一個專案 那橫向聯繫那國防會更不應當是如此啊你們的人員不足 你要怎麼提出你們的橫向到底是怎麼樣"},{"start":5260.58,"end":5270.807,"text":"因為每一個單位都不一樣啊 你官方少子化你的衛福部跟你的內政部 他們兩個都不一樣了你又跟他們不一樣 三方都不一樣 你怎麼整合這個問題是一個制度面的問題 你要先解決制度面的問題啊不然我們每一年預算這樣給這樣 你們也很難過啊因為做出來沒成效 而且你也沒有辦法橫向去聯繫各部會啊"},{"start":5287.011,"end":5299.9,"text":"我覺得高福 這個問題要先把制度去擬出來我覺得才重要 第一個第二個 工具數位局本來就是我們政府的啊政府的都不能合作那你要跟誰合作你隨便發報一個廠商幾百萬發報一個廠商可以應對一個國家這麼重大的一個國發會的單位的需求嗎"},{"start":5317.008,"end":5346.523,"text":"對不對錢該當要花的一定要花 一碼錢都不要省但是不該當花的 你花了沒成效我們所有的立法委員不分藍綠白我們希望國家強可是我們還要對得起民眾這是我們的稅金錢所以我從一而終拜託你們 制度要怎麼樣去做這最重要 不要你們一個單位局長 處長上來通通都是苦水一大堆我人不夠 越來人越少"},{"start":5349.199,"end":5359.689,"text":"這怎麼辦那個那個高屋你是不是說一下因為我們以下的預算都是這樣子的樣態呈現啊經理主席先讓請高屋主委說明"},{"start":5364.298,"end":5376.231,"text":"我想首先還是謝謝那個楊委員的給我們的指證的確我覺得我們國發會站在一個國家整體的高度裡面我們絕對是要站在總體的觀點協調各個相關的部會那我想委員的這些"},{"start":5381.617,"end":5386.439,"text":"這個建議我想我們各處事都會銘記在心那我要說明一下剛剛的那個促進社會發展跟計畫審議協調那個向下為什麼編這個項目的確我沒有要跟數位部做同樣一件事情數位部是整個政府的數位化"},{"start":5401.024,"end":5419.297,"text":"每個部會要共通的這些工具或是政策它是要擬定那我們同仁其實會編這個項目主要就是說因為數位部也希望各個部會都要把AI導入在你的工作的項目或流程所以呢社發部編這個東西就是因為我們社發部負責社會發展計畫的審議每年有數百件的審議案件都是跨部會的那我覺得這個"},{"start":5429.884,"end":5452.272,"text":"我覺得應該不涉於模型的建立後跟後面的執行他可能只在前端的研究裡面看看到底有哪些AI的方式或政策工具可以用在我所謂社會發展計畫的審議的裡面那至於裡面要什麼樣的內容我們會跟委員再來繼續請教他剛剛講的是建制喔對 所以應該是錯誤的"},{"start":5456.804,"end":5468.732,"text":"市長你要不要來說明 如果我說錯的話不是我說 不是你叫他來 是我叫他來 請他來抱歉法院議事委員會還是有他的議事規則請張署長說明是"},{"start":5474.278,"end":5497.544,"text":"委員這邊可能要跟那個洪委員再報告其實最主要的確是像我們副主委所講的方向剛剛的一個念的可能太快這個部分是運用到因為他這個AI的這個系統的話是根植在這個事務發布的一個他的一個政策架構底下他的建制所謂的建制是說把這個審議的功能建制起來"},{"start":5499.201,"end":5522.608,"text":"審議協作的功能建置起來那這個運用上還是運用到速發部的一個規範跟相關的一些不是不是不是剛剛高副主委講了說如果這是規劃案這不對喔這是建置案喔因為你這邊你編的預算來頭來講整體系統功能規劃需求分析資料整備還有計算資源的租金還有網站維護等等系統指系統建置"},{"start":5523.9,"end":5539.858,"text":"是 沒錯 但是副主委講的那個規劃的部分的確在我們這個部分總要剛開始這是一個開始 剛剛是新計劃必須要把前面的規劃也納在這個建制的一個計劃的完成裡面由高副主委跟張處長會後跟這個紅眼辦公室做詳細討論"},{"start":5545.933,"end":5571.392,"text":"好 這個請陳昭平委員做一個這一幕的總結不是背面總結 我是來發表意見不敢今天我們剛剛在討論促進社會發展及計畫審議協調其實現在的AI功能 大家才在起步第一個 臺灣的大司機中心政府的大司機中心到底建立到建設到怎麼樣一個程度"},{"start":5572.574,"end":5597.575,"text":"那剛剛大家一直談到私發部我相信私發部的能力有限因為你要做AI4G的模型要出來這要花了一大筆的軍費把各部會裡面的特色都要顯示出來所以今天在討論這個只是大家在模擬這個AI可能未來的發展AI的應用情形是值得鼓勵啦"},{"start":5598.735,"end":5618.408,"text":"剛剛我們的洪志偉講的也有道理但是目前在世界上我們在台灣發展我們是要發展邊緣的AI就是它只要有應用這個很重要那大司機中心都被那幾個國家綁住了尤其是美國綁住了"},{"start":5619.028,"end":5646.805,"text":"那我們要如何應用這AI變用大家學習但是像國發會它是整個統合各部會的你們的實際中心你們的大模型計畫應該要趕快自己去請專家來設計一套出來適合你們在用因為你們國發會不只有你們國發會交通部經濟部什麼都要歸納在你們那邊來做政策的判斷啦啊這個錢啊是做沒事情啦"},{"start":5648.806,"end":5670.494,"text":"是吸引一下用了AI的名字表示我跟著時代進步但是真的做出來的效果不是很大這裡面當然結果的整個改變要一步一步推展出來才有辦法現在大家都在學習有一個事情特別重要現在軟體的設計人才在美國已經"},{"start":5671.474,"end":5687.71,"text":"大概遠遠砍了50%AI自己會寫自己寫的比人還要好那我們48部裡面是主要國家政策的主導單位在各個地方應該再加強如果把AI的邊緣運算AI的那個"},{"start":5689.271,"end":5715.76,"text":"大世界的模型一定要建立起來才有辦法去適應AI的運用那我會主張這樣剛剛啊我們黃昭偉講的也是很有道理但是大家都在起步要是這個應用其實大家還在摸索這一點我們要了解到好不好好謝謝好謝謝陳上面委員針對這一幕做了非常精闢的總結好現在處於第七幕第七幕"},{"start":5718.877,"end":5739.188,"text":"我跳太快了 第五幕 促進產業發展小社長你要先做一些準備好 各位我們從二十八案到三十六案一起處理都是第五幕 促進產業發展這個原列五億八千七百四十一萬兩千元本席所提"},{"start":5740.305,"end":5754.541,"text":"第三十一案跟賴榮所期二十九案我們改成主決議好 提案委員還有洪逸祥 謝一鳳還有呂玉琳 洪逸祥等等請提案委員呃 呂玉琳委員然後洪逸祥謝謝主席"},{"start":5758.728,"end":5783.759,"text":"33案跟34案喔34案可以改成組決議但是33案的話我們希望國發會要有精進的做法喔因為我們是像費用裡面項目裡面是主要是協調各部會推動這個AI這個新十大建設的方案但是也他這個方案也是包括我們亞洲矽谷這個智慧創新跟擴大國際的布局的整合平台的計畫喔但是我們看到這整個"},{"start":5784.959,"end":5795.951,"text":"執行的情形只是有沒有召開跨部會的會議作為標準根本就是留意形式不是開了多少會就代表說你的政策真的會落實尤其我們這個計畫是要針對我國的物聯網產值的要達到全球市佔率5.2%的重要目標我們沒有看到我們國發會"},{"start":5807.562,"end":5820.088,"text":"這個所有開會的結果跟落實計畫的一些做法所以更看不出來這個可以實際上帶動多少產業的成長跟國際的佈局所以我們請國發會做一個詳盡的這個規劃跟進度短中長期進度這個書面報告在這一項裡面我凍結一千萬謝謝李議員 34案是改成主決議這個所有委員提案詢問之後"},{"start":5836.536,"end":5848.205,"text":"再同意我這個懲罰數 蕭署長您先回答然後再請主委再做補充那個黃委員我這邊有好幾案我先從30案這邊開始"},{"start":5850.523,"end":5873.384,"text":"30案 運用人工智慧AI帶動物聯網創新發展然後我看了一下你們的預算書跟這些的計劃反正又講了一堆但是你們這些工作我另給你們一個 涉及產業技術發展輔導產業輔助 運用場域推動 國際市場拓展你這個東西把它放到跟經濟部"},{"start":5874.946,"end":5902.833,"text":"的AI或者是物聯網一樣喔他們也是產業科技發展比如說技術師啊對不對然後你的輔助跟應用場域推動那就是產發署、中企署、商發署啊那問題是你們做的跟他們有什麼不同啊這我常年喔對國發會我這個是非常的就覺得你們很奇怪就同樣的東西經濟部就在做了啊你們又要再參一咖"},{"start":5904.551,"end":5925.58,"text":"然後你做的事情呢又沒有比人家厲害因為你的人又少啊又沒有執行的業務部隊啊你們是規劃單位統籌戰略所以你們的角色應該要拉回來啊所以我才說你們這個這個這個到底在做什麼啊運營人工還編不少錢欸三億五千多萬"},{"start":5929.28,"end":5931.849,"text":"給我說明一下先請財發署 蕭市長這個說明然後再請國會組織補充"},{"start":5942.408,"end":5970.408,"text":"非常謝謝呂委員跟洪委員剛才給我們的指導那我先說明呂委員剛的這個問題就是我們的亞系3.0或者是AI新十大建設我們在剛要書裡面只是訂出粗略的目標但是後續呢我們其實有跟各個部會再繼續討論也訂出了分年的目標我想我們會把這個分年的目標包括剛才呂委員指正的物聯網的產值那每年要達到的這個市佔率的比例"},{"start":5971.068,"end":5978.918,"text":"我們都有定具體的目標而且具體的執行策略跟做法這部分我們都整理好我們會提供給旅遊玩家這邊參考這邊沒有問題第二點也謝謝洪委員給我們的一個指正那我想剛剛從剛剛審查到現在包括洪委員包括"},{"start":5988.088,"end":6016.574,"text":"楊委員剛剛都提到說我們國發會應該是擔任一個統籌協調者的角色那而且不只是各部會自己做我們其實也要做一些橫向聯繫做整個整體國家發展的角色去補足各部會的不足所以跟洪遠報告我們其實是統籌經濟部、書發部、國科會相關部會依照他的職長去進行他的一個策略跟他的一個工作的一個執行那國發會做什麼呢國發會是做整體國家"},{"start":6017.694,"end":6039.414,"text":"政策的一個擬定那特別是整體國家的一個執行部會沒有投入需要跨部會資源整合的計畫我舉例跟洪委員報告包括前瞻AI的應用包括像關鍵基礎設施涉及到整體國家經濟安全的一些一些需要業者投入的部分那甚至也有我跟洪委員跟"},{"start":6040.474,"end":6064.808,"text":"各位委員報告 像工協會 電電工會 它其實也跟我們講說很多東西他們覺得部會應該做 可是就是沒有人做啊那為什麼沒有人做因為這個東西跨級 比如說跨級這個經濟部 跨級交通部像有些無人載具的一些東西 就大家踢來踢去那這個部分就應該國發會挺身而出來協調各部會來進行處理所以我們大概會朝這個方向"},{"start":6065.408,"end":6086.803,"text":"剛剛侯委員指正的相當正確 我想我們未來一定會多參考各部會給我們的一個建議事實上第二點跟各位委員報告 我們定期都跟召開會議跟相關的部會 包括剛剛委員講的經濟部 速發部 國科會等等技術師 產發署 速發部的速產署都開會"},{"start":6087.643,"end":6103.694,"text":"我們確實的分工確實的討論他們哪些做得到哪些做不到哪些國發會要來補位的所以我想簡單的跟委員做一個報告現在請葉主委來補充主委因為腳受傷可以作者回答好 謝謝張偉"},{"start":6110.189,"end":6122.46,"text":"這邊也跟委員致歉一下說因為腳不方便所以沒有辦法起來跟大家質疑是不是允許我坐著跟他們回答剛剛呂委員有提到就是說我們那些分年指標這個部分"},{"start":6125.566,"end":6152.165,"text":"我會請我們同事把我們AI新時代建設以及全球AI這些排名我們會提出一個素面報告給呂委員紅委員這邊的話就是關心到說我們的統籌的我們國發會扮演的角色剛剛楊委員也有提到就是我們國發會到底在扮演什麼樣的角色以及說一些資源是不是跟經濟部或是國科會這邊有一些重複這樣子"},{"start":6153.126,"end":6174.951,"text":"那在這邊還是一樣就是說剛剛我們處長也有跟紅委員解釋一下就是說因為我們是屬於統籌當然統籌的人不會太多因為統籌的話就好像大腦不會比身體還要大這樣子所以一般來講的話我們會重點是在統籌規劃這個部分那也跟紅委員大概大致上分享一下就是說在AI新十大建設裡面"},{"start":6175.891,"end":6189.902,"text":"原本在有關無人機這個部分來講的話其實經濟部跟那個國科會其實有不一樣的意見那我們也是進去跟經濟部跟國科會協調之後的話慢慢的這個無人機這個產業這個部分就會歸到經濟部那邊那國科會這邊會比較屬於技術的開發這一部分不是"},{"start":6196.487,"end":6213.958,"text":"我還是先說明因為如果你是講統籌協調人事或者是聘這些我們這樣講consultant的company來做我們的戰略規劃這沒有問題但絕對如果照你這樣的定位是花不到3億多的因為你這裡頭還有2億多的獎勵補助那是要幹嘛"},{"start":6218.717,"end":6220.259,"text":"剛剛那個處長你是哪一處啦"},{"start":6232.496,"end":6257.652,"text":"經濟發展 產業發展處產業發展處講得很好真的國外會是協調的公司現在大家都在講AI但是AI的基礎建設台灣現在才剛剛在推動所以AI利息變成非常的重要我這邊關於出境產業的發展我沒有提到今天大家都在談AI那我希望我們的"},{"start":6259.293,"end":6286.205,"text":"葉子惠你要把AI的基礎建設納入促餐裡面因為這個成本非常的高而且用電量非常大要各個來配合我一直在說AI現在才剛剛開始未來是應用端最為重要台灣要發展的應用端我也希望我們的葉子惠在應用端跟經濟部跟私衛部私衛部其實他只管哪裡"},{"start":6287.225,"end":6313.727,"text":"一般的醫療跟服務業的那經濟不是產業的那你還有很多資料的蒐集要整個整合起來這個AI在應用的話才會生創所以今天編的這個錢實在是偶然一樣都在皮毛旁邊都是在消化預算應該從根本裡面要把它整個改變起來要整個投資下去"},{"start":6314.808,"end":6342.211,"text":"所以我今天我是來建議的我們的AI基礎產業尤其AI硬算中心等於硬算力就是國力這個地方要大量的投資你才有辦法整個台灣島變成一個AI島不然以後的發展確確實實是很困難的這個三立都會甚至黃志偉講的那沒什麼我跟你們講你看他那AI代投資真的是嚇死人"},{"start":6344.315,"end":6362.544,"text":"那個葉子惠你要大膽的破例啊編列多一點各個部位都能夠成立自己的然後你們再做一個綜合的一個那個叫AI算力的那種機盤啊就是我怎麼講那個忘了就是要一個"},{"start":6363.504,"end":6384.413,"text":"一個你們的模型AI模型出來才有辦法跟這個AI的時代跟在一起現在只有起步其實講你們看了很多你們都全部預算裡面寫AIAI你們就沒有根本的資料那只要大司機一直輸送進去才有辦法做出最好的決策"},{"start":6385.513,"end":6398.909,"text":"不過剛剛開始應用也學習一下讓大家都學習AI是未來的起始這個很重要啦曾委員所言甚至言之有理最後請這個謝范委員做本幕的總結"},{"start":6401.67,"end":6423.604,"text":"主席我跟你說我可以改主決議因為我認為AI是非常重要的那我需要的是葉主委出來說明因為國發會不是什麼好像什麼經濟部做了國發會就不能做國發會是整個行政院"},{"start":6424.585,"end":6450.71,"text":"最重要的協調統籌的單位是在經濟部之上不在經濟部之下是對於整體政策而言你們應該要做整個協調欸而不是說經濟部做你們就不能做這讓你看連讓紅委員都產生這樣子的誤解那你們都沒有跳出來說明那委員會為什麼要給你們的預算過呢"},{"start":6452.89,"end":6481.81,"text":"你都沒有說明清楚未來台灣政策要怎麼做甚至AI未來的發展怎麼樣子適合一個台灣產業發展的模型以及能夠具備國際競爭力的AI的這樣子的一個政策你們應該提出說明嘛要提出具體的規劃讓委員會讓產業界以及讓各部會有遵循的方向嘛這"},{"start":6482.811,"end":6507.349,"text":"是國方會應該做的 議組委都沒有出來說明 到現在你才出來說你出來說 我才願意改組決議好 這個完全同意您的看法這個請國會議組委說明謝謝謝委員的指教確實就有如謝委員講的 就是說我們其實就是明年 因為今年的話 我們的預算大致上已經"},{"start":6508.547,"end":6535.598,"text":"大概就是編列這麼多 那明年我們會有更積極的作為比如說我都有跟各處市說就是說我們應該要把處市的資源結合在一起甚至跟那一個部會的資源結合在一起讓我們提出一個比較大方向的一個策略規劃比如說我們可以去申請一些公建計畫啦或是一些設發計畫然後利用這些公建計畫跟設發計畫來跟所有的部會一起合作把這個整個AI新時代建設整個"},{"start":6536.198,"end":6562.57,"text":"一些策略啊我們要做的一些事情經由一些合適的預算把它編列進來那我今年我們編的大概3億5是就之前還沒有說那麼有規模的想要去做這件事但我們明年開始的話預算的編列會比較比較更更進取一點這樣子那我還是有意見你3億你還在往上編喔你那個2億多等下講補助講一下喔不是啦就是這"},{"start":6564.037,"end":6587.787,"text":"這個部分就是這個3億多的話其實還沒有包括就是說我剛剛回答那個謝委員講說我們要做一個比較大的一個政策的一個規劃那這個部分是不是可以先讓我們就是說讓我們維持一定的一些能量在那邊那明年我再提的時候的話那一個就不用再去額外再去增加非常多的一些預算金這樣子"},{"start":6589.708,"end":6611.004,"text":"好 各位 說明還是沒有完全到位 也沒有百分之百很清楚這個剛剛陳昌遠委員是說這個要給這個長發數更多的預算 才能做更多的事情 這我也同意但是給你們那麼多錢 要花到火上你說將不住兩億多 他們也沒有說清楚 沒關係我們"},{"start":6613.427,"end":6640.047,"text":"主席建議啦這個二十八案先一份我已經改組決議了嘛 您同意了嘛好這個整個幕啊 侯委員是不是這樣 整個幕啊我們就照你的這個提案是不是凍結一千萬提出書面報告之後 死的凍值一個月之內一個月之內你說三十嗎沒有 就整個幕啦整個幕齁"},{"start":6641.758,"end":6668.185,"text":"整個墓凍結一千萬提出書面報告這書面報告針對你所有的提案都要提出書面報告一個月之內提出書面報告之後死得凍死可是可是我有三個案子啊對啦我是現在處理是整個墓在處理的一般我們在處理預算是整個墓處理那我知道你有三個提案嘛包括30跟"},{"start":6669.736,"end":6684.256,"text":"三五三六嘛各提案一千一千一千嘛那我們是這麼認為啦這個促進產業發展國會辦協調這些規劃重要角色讓他們有足夠的預算可以做足夠的事情但是如果"},{"start":6685.077,"end":6706.189,"text":"他們今年度的預算表現不符合我們期待 馬上明年又要審預算了這新的會計9月又要審明年度的預算我們到時候再來這個嚴格的檢視 是不是還有把這筆預算好好的運用所以我是不是建議 是不是這樣子這個因為5億多 我們就凍結1000萬提出書面報告"},{"start":6712.336,"end":6739.208,"text":"好 謝謝洪議長委員第五幕的部分 除非產業發展我們凍結一千萬 提出一個月之內提出說明報告之後 使得凍之三十四案改組決議 二十八案改組決議我們繼續處第六幕 促進能力資源發展這個能力發展處 謝署長要先做一些準備"},{"start":6741.002,"end":6766.948,"text":"我們一起處理第六幕 原內8592萬兩千元所提的提案總共有從37案到48案我們一起處理首先主席所提46案改成主決議賴岳龍委員41案也改成主決議有沒有提案委員要做說明還有陳昌明委員48案也改成主決議"},{"start":6769.119,"end":6775.668,"text":"來李業委員之後楊全英委員好謝謝主席我的提案是42案最重要我們是看到這項"},{"start":6777.197,"end":6789.779,"text":"預算裡面我們是要來延攬專業人才來吸引數位的牧民造訪台灣就是能夠政策推動的重點但是我們看到整個計畫數位游牧簽證這個部分為針對這個申辦人的人數做統計這樣子不利於我們的計畫整個方案的改進所以我們希望針對這個數位游牧簽證來做一個能夠精進的規劃跟統計"},{"start":6806.042,"end":6810.343,"text":"所以在這部分的話 我希望能提出一個書面報告我先凍結100萬好 下一位請楊瓊瑩委員謝謝主席 楊瓊瑩發言我跟您提案是第45案 這個45案覺得有一點蹊蹺就是說沒有45案 43吧我們現在到第幾案您的是43案 43案"},{"start":6831.588,"end":6847.702,"text":"那這個部分因為你原先是這個訂定的國家人才競爭力躍升方案那你制定在2028年的預期效益但是因為工作的項目你達到了91項當然是實屬眾多那且計畫到2027年就結束"},{"start":6852.446,"end":6870.138,"text":"那這個你要是2028年的預期效益那你預計的是91項的這個項目所以呢我個人是非常的希望能夠訂定分年度的關鍵指標落實階段性的一個管考"},{"start":6870.678,"end":6881.308,"text":"才能夠真正的掌控各年度之盤查整體性的一個申請成效所以在國防會還沒有訂定之前當然國防會有來討論過原本我是要凍結10%那現在同意凍結為5%我希望國防會能夠訂定分年關鍵指標"},{"start":6890.976,"end":6901.083,"text":"落實階段性的一個管考才能夠真正在這個幾年度裡頭能夠循序漸進的一直滾動性的檢討達到你要的2028年的一個成效"},{"start":6905.25,"end":6920.217,"text":"主席我凍結的是整個募的8000多的一趴這個部分其實也不多我的理由也是除了人數以外還有就是到底要給幾年"},{"start":6921.397,"end":6946.605,"text":"因為這個我們知道說這些數位遊牧的業者那他們都是在家工作或者是遠距的那怎麼樣子能夠讓國際的這些人力來介入以及來幫助台灣的AI產業的這樣的發展這是非常重要的"},{"start":6947.915,"end":6966.029,"text":"我覺得除了說提出每年的目標的關卡以外我們認為說未來怎麼樣精進是不是提高就是說提高這個年就是說從兩年提高到三年或者是什麼是不是有其他的方案我認為就是國發會以及"},{"start":6969.271,"end":6995.884,"text":"就是說未來應該要來了解的那以及了解說這樣子的一個產業新興的產業有什麼樣子的需求以及怎麼樣跟台灣在地的新創以及在地的企業可以做結合我覺得這應該需要做一個具體的一個討論所以我認為就是按照原本就凍結一段然後讓國發會能夠精進以及提出相關的書面說明"},{"start":6996.784,"end":7005.541,"text":"好 我們先請林發樹縣市長來綜合答覆三位委員的詢問然後再請國會主委來做補充之後就主席再處理"},{"start":7012.799,"end":7020.709,"text":"主席及各位委員謝謝感謝三位委員的垂詢有關呂玉玲委員跟謝英文委員對於數位遊牧這個政策的一個推動的一個期許這個部分我們會到委員的一個議題"},{"start":7028.339,"end":7032.161,"text":"我們來強化首先就是相關的統計的部分我們會跟外交部透過我們今年會開發一個線上的申辦系統會讓那個數位遊牧的簽證的一個申辦是更加的便利以利申請那再者我們也會研究怎麼樣去呈現其實我們辦各項活動都有掌握到蠻多的數位遊牧者那不過"},{"start":7055.991,"end":7081.895,"text":"很可惜的就是說他們對於不一定會透過簽證的這種形式進來其實因為我們本來就有一些免簽那有一些他申請他有時候他不會待在一個地方太久是因為有租稅的考量因為如果你超過半年的話183天的話你就變租稅考量所以這些數位遊牧包括他自己的本身的公司也會有一些政策所以這都會是影響數位遊牧者在台灣的一個考量"},{"start":7086.036,"end":7108.234,"text":"那另外的就是說剛剛謝一鳳委員有提到的那確實原本去年我們實施的時候的數位遊牧簽證只有3加3可以6個月那這個部分確實比較相對不足那我們在去年感謝委員的支持之下我們的人才專法的修法已經把6個月提高到2年"},{"start":7108.994,"end":7137.073,"text":"就是我們數位遊牧簽證提高到兩年那確實可以看到就是說應該會增加他們來的意願所以這個部分我們也會跟外交部再討論如何的來掌握那此外就是委員剛剛提到的也很對就是我們也跟觀光署我們有去拜會觀光署因為很多的像日本他們把數位遊牧視為觀光政策的一環那這個部分透過一些相關先是用觀光把數位遊牧吸引進來"},{"start":7138.354,"end":7161.312,"text":"之後我們再結合他們去串聯剛剛委員提到的包括新創包括投入我們的AI更重要的是數位遊牧只是一個管道讓他進來我們更重要的是希望把他留在台灣希望可以讓他們留在台灣投入我們的AI投入我們的數位產業所以這個非常謝謝委員的提醒那我們這個會遵守辦理我們會來強化來辦理好不好 動輒於他請國安委員主委答我"},{"start":7170.979,"end":7182.429,"text":"剛剛那個我們處長也有大致上說明就是說這個木的一些業務方面的一些進進措施那謝委員跟呂委員都有關心到所謂的數位有木簽證這個部分"},{"start":7183.47,"end":7207.149,"text":"那我想就是說剛剛處長也有提到就是說這個部分我們已經跟外交部有合作那我們有一些資料來源那也會遵照那個謝委員的一些想法就是說我們會分門別類把新創的就是說數位幼木裡面到底有多少新創多少AI這個部分做一個做一個統計上面一個管考那也會把這樣的一些人數啦以及來這邊"},{"start":7209.13,"end":7234.076,"text":"居住的一些時間的長度我們也會列入列入那一個統計資料裡面那我們也會嘗試來推動說是不是從兩年再把它放寬到三年那這個部分是不是允許我們回去再做一個研究那再跟委員匯報好謝謝本席針對第六幕出於能力資源發展做處理有先問委員凍結85萬毛一趴"},{"start":7236.797,"end":7262.376,"text":"這個李玉堅委員凍結100萬然後楊瓊玉委員改成5%就是15萬第六幕促進能力資源發展整幕凍結200萬一個月之內提出書面報告之後 始得動之全部都含在裡面了常委員的這個凍結都含在裡面一個月之內提出書面報告 始得動之好 我們繼續處理哪一案41案"},{"start":7267.172,"end":7291.503,"text":"46 48 三個案改成主決議好 我們進行第7幕 健全國土規劃及經營管理原定數4億5397萬6千元好 這個提案從49案到60案有委員陳廷輝 賴立榮 楊瓊英 蔡宇宜 謝一鳳 邱氏 韋昌堅 曾俊賢等所提案那個請這個國土處啊 請國土區立法院處黃文文醫院處長先做準備"},{"start":7292.657,"end":7305.348,"text":"好 提案委員有沒有要 我先處理我的部分主席的提案 這個54案 這個59案改成這個組決議還有沒有委員要改組決議的60案 陳昌明委員改成組決議57案改成組決議有沒有委員要先做這個說明"},{"start":7319.977,"end":7326.705,"text":"好如果沒有特別其他詢問的話請第七幕主管是這個公路區域領導辦事處請黃處長針對委內提案做綜合說明"},{"start":7339.287,"end":7367.098,"text":"主席還有各位委員那針對楊秋英委員的提案我想先做個說明因為楊委員的提案裡面是說明到說在我們地方創生公有建築空間活化的案子裡面51案的補助有9案撤銷那也跟委員說明這9案的撤銷大部分是因為地方的政府因為規劃設計或建造取得的時程比較長那逾越了我們的那個補助的期限"},{"start":7368.158,"end":7386.153,"text":"那第二個部分呢大概有些地方的議會他在預算因為需要配合款沒有通過那也跟委員這邊做個說明我們51案裡面成案的有42案目前42案都已經完工了那也跟委員做個很重要的說明就是這42案"},{"start":7386.775,"end":7404.151,"text":"我們會特別強調他後面的營運管理也就是說我們會很負責任的即使他完工之後我們後面仍然會追蹤他有沒有持續正常的營運管理這個也跟委員做個報告那接下來是你針對先一份委員提案"},{"start":7406.181,"end":7434.3,"text":"那謝委員的提案是說我們在這個預算裡面我們在計畫核定後執行集成的過長而且跟地方產業發展的永續結合度能有改善空間那也跟委員做個報告我們後續不管在地方創生的媒合的部分我們都會特別注重地方產業的發展朝委員指導的方向去做進進那我們也會跟各區的輔導中心會朝這個方向來做處理那接下來是"},{"start":7436.94,"end":7454.419,"text":"請這個國會議員主委補充謝謝趙委那我想我們處長已經說明了蠻清楚就是說剛剛楊委員關心的那幾個案沒有成案其實有一些原因是因為缺工缺料然後使得工程招標不順利"},{"start":7455.3,"end":7473.813,"text":"那或者是地方醫院還沒有同意編列預算等等所造成的那我們還是會盡快的就是去了解一下原因然後提醒他們要趕快去處理這個東西不然的話這個東西放在後面的話時間過了之後的話就可能要再重新開始這個部分這個部分我會請我們那個處長盡快放置"},{"start":7480.367,"end":7494.338,"text":"這個部分呢 因為五十一案有九個案撤銷現在跟我們說的理由是說地方政府因為他缺工缺料不要不出去或者是議會沒有通過配合款你們的理由是如此嗎 這九項"},{"start":7496.958,"end":7521.038,"text":"跟我們報告大概我們有整理了一下第一個就是說因為我們希望原本顯示的我們原意是希望原本顯示的公有空間我們除了透過火化之外也讓地方的團隊能夠進駐這是我們的原意那在執行的過程你的原意對本席要聽九案撤銷的原意是什麼那這九案裡面有一些譬如說它是比較舊的建築它連建造都沒有"},{"start":7521.53,"end":7538.877,"text":"那這建造都沒有的話他重新申請建造那當初你們在他們要申請的時候你們一定有一個基本規範啊對那為什麼會漏洞這麼多呢跟委員報我們在審查的過程中都有詢問地方政府他們都認為是可以順利拿到建造主委你注意聽"},{"start":7539.717,"end":7566.657,"text":"也就是說我們有51案竟然有9案撤銷其實是蠻高的一個漏洞那為什麼本席具體建議的是我們要去把以往沒有辦法達到成效的原因要怎麼樣去解決這是第一個所以請你列出這9項撤銷的原因是什麼給本席那同時是不是還有可以成功"},{"start":7567.277,"end":7581.558,"text":"的機會到底是真的就是close還是還有機會我們需要知道這個要不然我們看到51項竟然有9項是撤銷這個這個數字太高了 這第一個第二個"},{"start":7583.4,"end":7608.863,"text":"我認為我們地方創生我非常的支持因為台灣以農立國也好整個地方創生可以帶動整個地方的各方除了地方的一個參與讓他們情感更好帶動地方的特色這非常好但是在營運管理的部分我具體建議必須一定要加強你們可能還是要去統計到目前為止"},{"start":7609.583,"end":7630.7,"text":"到目前為止營運管理的有哪些sample他是成功的那你們應該要廣宣召集他們來做廣宣好的大家可以學習嘛不要各自做各自的大家沒有去交流學習我覺得這很浪費人家已經可以辦到成功的那我要怎麼樣可以讓他們去學習不一定適用但是觀念"},{"start":7631.841,"end":7644.12,"text":"可能可以運用的到那我們不能讓他們 因為你來申請之後那營運管理你沒有去加強去輔導 去管理我覺得這個會浪費掉好嗎好 郭陸朝委員 法定人數不足"},{"start":7646.841,"end":7671.461,"text":"跟委員報告我們現在全台灣的我們核定的團隊都有做串聯彼此我們在工作方都有彼此不管是北部、中部、南部、東部彼此成功的案例都有做交流那委員提到的後續的營運管理我們現在都有定期在追蹤那如果有不對的地方我們就會請他來做報告跟委員做個說明來那個請謝副委員做總結"},{"start":7673.657,"end":7690.876,"text":"我認為國發會這個地方創生的計畫不只像那個楊委員所提到的就是說怎麼樣成案因為51案裡面9案是將近20%是比例很高但是還有就是整個地方創生未來的"},{"start":7691.477,"end":7706.683,"text":"怎麼樣人體的發展可以讓地方的特色以及地方的產業共同結合讓這個政策有深遠的影響那我覺得這是目前我們沒有具體看到的一個成效那我認為就是國發會"},{"start":7708.604,"end":7732.795,"text":"就這個部分應該要協助地方的產業就是地方創生跟產業的結合還有協助怎麼樣子有外力來介入然後讓地方特色能夠更具體的發揮我覺得這是最非常重要的一個關鍵那希望說國發會能夠就這個部分來具體跟委員會報告然後也真的把這個政策能夠做得更深遠一點謝謝"},{"start":7734.997,"end":7750.343,"text":"日後有這個會議當中還有機會我會針對地方創生請他們來做一個專案報告這一幕的部分謝委員提案是凍結1% 454萬楊委員是凍結10%兩位委員是不是就做一些折衷是不是凍一千萬好第七幕的部分"},{"start":7766.487,"end":7782.274,"text":"我們希望剛剛我個人所提出的這一些酒家到底是什麼原因請他們儘速來釐清還有沒有救起來的機會因為這個比例太高了你們在審查的機制要怎麼去做調整請你們也一併書面資料給本席"},{"start":7784.995,"end":7809.418,"text":"部分呢也請把你們調整怎麼樣好的可以去交流那我就改為主決議 好那楊委員改成主決議後我們凍結數就不用那麼多那是不是因為謝委員您那部分是凍結454萬要不要就因為地方創生對每個縣市都很重要是不是我們一起改成主決議就照原列數第七幕的部分我們照原列數通過"},{"start":7810.579,"end":7831.079,"text":"謝謝各位委員 接著處理第八目第八目績效管理部分 原定數4682萬1千元從61案到66案一起處理請這個管考處理處長先做準備好 這個本席的部分62案改組決議66案改組決議賴樂榮的部分64案改組決議另外提案委員還有61"},{"start":7835.973,"end":7843.919,"text":"李玉玲63 陳廷飛65 謝一鳳兩位在場委員有沒有特別要說明好 請李玉玲委員"},{"start":7845.709,"end":7868.863,"text":"我的案子是60億案 這個案子是績效管理我們國發會就應該協助我們行政院核定的國家重大的計畫來執行那就以桃竹苗大細股推動方案來看包括就是居住交通跟醫療方面的整個層面的配套跟原先的規劃完全不一樣內政部也"},{"start":7869.824,"end":7888.203,"text":"下修了這個社宅的目標值也包括了大漢溪兩岸的快速道路跟新梅隆快速道路這些交通重大的建設都沒有完成可行性的評估還有我們桃園的大型醫院的規劃因為病床數不符地方醫療的需求"},{"start":7888.903,"end":7906.705,"text":"面臨的卡關這些難題看到就是我們整個國防會在相關的整個配套缺乏整體性的整合跟推動的節奏我們希望我們國防會能夠更有績效的管理跟有一些改善的那些措施方案提出來書面報告所以我在這邊凍結八百萬"},{"start":7909.319,"end":7927.552,"text":"好 謝謝那個謝委員有沒有特別說明沒有的話請這個來管制處請管考處理事長先做說明是 謝謝謝謝委員的指正就是我們在新的新的一代在推動公共建設的時候是按照六大區域在推動的這以桃竹苗大細股為例的話"},{"start":7928.092,"end":7952.106,"text":"它就是利用既有的產業優勢包括有半導體AI次世代的通訊以及聲音等等這個產業為動力然後配合周邊的配套措施以交通為例的話現在以及在桃園地區跟桃竹貓地區有的重大交通建設包括有國一甲的一條連結航空城的平行的道路接著連結了台15跟台4線"},{"start":7954.487,"end":7981.136,"text":"的拓寬以及改線那61線的那個尤其在桃園的部分呢需要高架的部分也高架66也把它高架起來那當然還有陽梅到頭份段的高速公路的拓寬那這個對區域也很重要那更不用講說在那個鐵路地下鐵路立體化的部分那這個部分都是重大交通建設那在醫院的部分我所知道的現在部桃正在擴建就在內地的部桃在擴建"},{"start":7981.576,"end":8005.733,"text":"另外在清华大学也准备在沿海四乡镇也有一些等于是扩充病房的这些想法另外我知道还有一间大学在某在桃园某地区在洽谈中那在社宅的部分确如那个委员所讲的部分可能会有些因为有些地基发展比较快像巴德等等地区发展比较快确实是有些社宅的要补充这些部分我们其实都会有"},{"start":8006.373,"end":8024.805,"text":"既定的機制在推動尤其跟地方政府有協調我們有區域治理的機制在所以懇請委員我們當有不足的部分那我們自己來做我剛剛提出來的問題你都避重就輕了在交通方面我剛剛提到的大漢西兩岸的快速道路跟新梅隆快速道路這可惜是美國還沒有出來 是是不是 是"},{"start":8025.365,"end":8054.76,"text":"對啊 那你剛剛就講到那個台中以南那邊去了沒有沒有台中 我剛剛都講桃園地區了啦對啊 我剛剛講這兩條你都沒有說明有大漢溪的那個我們叫板龍快速道路大漢溪側以及新美龍的這些部分那這兩個部分正在做可行性研究那其中報告的部分我特別昨天還去公路總局跟他們總工談過了這個部分在做其中報告而且他們不會懈怠一定在做可行性研究把它做好"},{"start":8055.16,"end":8084.117,"text":"大概六月會有出期中部報告六月就有期中部報告這兩條快速道路還有醫院的病床數呢醫院病床數因為都卡關了人家留標了可是因為大家都想要大醫院你兩百床以下人家就不想來標了那這個可以做調整我都在我們委員會諮詢過那你們有沒有諮詢過你們有沒有去改善去溝通看怎麼處理溝通怎麼樣很久了一個月了"},{"start":8086.492,"end":8106.85,"text":"這個部分我們再去了解你們了解清楚有處理方案提出書面報告 這邊凍結800萬這個本席有提問秀維你最後做總結不是啦 我凍一趴而已啊是6萬還叫他們提個書面報告 監督一下進度我覺得這很合理吧非常合理"},{"start":8109.304,"end":8131.78,"text":"主席本來提案六十二案 六十二案雖然改組決議 我現在要重新調回來這個撤銷組決議 請管制處說明一下本期提案內容六十二案的部分也是針對我們六大區域產業來推動的那在高雄地區的話 我們就是用大南方新矽谷"},{"start":8132.304,"end":8154.692,"text":"就是利用等於增加算力還有運用跟增加人力這個部分來串聯出那個整個科技的廊道包括大小S廊道這樣那大概我們推動的範圍是這樣包括有高屏二塊我知道啦 我的提案這個內容說得很清楚這個六大區域產業涉及到台灣未來二三十年的發展範圍廣 規模大"},{"start":8157.253,"end":8186.027,"text":"但是你計劃內容跟經費的配置跟效益的評估你要說得更清楚更完整一點所以我希望說這個部分管考書要針對六大區域產業跟生活圈的計劃內容很明定的有一些數據然後再檢討這個跨部會跟地方政府溝通協調的這個機制讓六大區域產業跟生活圈這個計劃能夠很好的落實很好的執行所以這樣"},{"start":8188.257,"end":8215.192,"text":"這個 綜合大家的意見是不是 呂遠 呂遠 你八百萬就不那麼多啦 我四百啦那依奉才五十耶依奉才動五十啊 那我們折衷一下好我們就這個整個第八目計較管理我的六十案主決議先把它 先把它調整成這個提案這個"},{"start":8217.636,"end":8246.104,"text":"階段管理 原列數是680萬1千我們凍結500萬一個月之內提出書面報告之後 使得凍滯好謝謝繼續處理第九目健全資訊管理提升應用效率原列數85028000元提案是由67到70案提案委員 洪玉祥三案 賴銳榮一案提案委員要不要說明"},{"start":8247.1,"end":8268.211,"text":"我簡單說明一下因為這個應該是資訊處我想資訊處在這邊的話主要就是說在你們這些健全資訊管理當中因為你們有發展管理國發資訊系統我對那一個資料傳輸韌性其中那一個踢落的到底主責單位是誰"},{"start":8270.926,"end":8284.806,"text":"這等一下再來說明一下然後這個TRODE的主則當然是誰知道那你們如果是主則那你就要告訴我你的績效如果不是那你就是負責是上架然後上什麼樣的資料的架"},{"start":8286.442,"end":8308.017,"text":"然後再來就是說既然你們這邊是資訊處所以你們在其他處市裡頭剛剛講了一堆不管是AIRG或什麼等等那你們這個資訊處應該是統籌規劃不應該散落到各處去所以這個是我為什麼提案凍結跟減劣一個很主要的理由再請你們說明"},{"start":8310.421,"end":8323.939,"text":"好 有沒有其他委員還有詢問如果沒有的話 針對本務先請這個諮詢室嗎這個地方是邊緣諮詢室嗎好 諮詢室請歐陽 歐陽主任先說明然後再請主委做補充"},{"start":8331.372,"end":8347.648,"text":"主席 各位委員 大家好這個預算 剛才委員所關心的T-Roll這塊T-Roll的部分其實是速發部統籌建置和維園本會的部分只是建置的是會內"},{"start":8348.929,"end":8372.359,"text":"有跟他借接的部分那我們目前會內有借接的有兩個系統一個是我們公共政策是救營平台那邊有跟有利用這個TRO來做借接另外一個是管考他們政府計畫那一塊他們有要跟好像是跟工程會有利用TRO來做借接那其他應該就不會有吧"},{"start":8373.039,"end":8384.145,"text":"沒有 我們就是 現況是這樣 我們會裡面只有這兩個系統所以我們其實是分四年 每年大概是變五百萬那是做維持還是在新增資料上踢落"},{"start":8386.185,"end":8410.246,"text":"這個部分它除了網路的費用以外有時候是維持還是說你會再新增資料上去比如說我今年上的這個是參與公共政策參與平台跟這個工程會那比如說下一年度可能是你們的這個像剛剛講設發處這些什麼我的問題是你是持續維持你自己的T-Roll還是你會有Plus新增的項目"},{"start":8410.902,"end":8435.014,"text":"我們其實它不算是它是屬於說因為你要接接上去你必須要follow它的比如說API的解決規則所以他們必須要去改自己的程式來符合說它API那你每一年會去改兩個上去改三個上去還是說只是純粹維護只有就我們需要借接的業務做所以就限定這兩個對好然後再來就是說"},{"start":8440.916,"end":8467.913,"text":"你們在做這件事情的時候會不會幫這些其他的你們國發會的其他地方去做一些假設你們要導入AI這些相關的資訊系統規劃等等應該是你們會比較熟啊我們其實雖然是預算是編在各個計畫裡面因為他的計畫目的他們有去做一些AI的應用但是資訊是這邊其實也會協助他們來做技術上面的資源"},{"start":8470.54,"end":8493.92,"text":"好啦我這樣子好了主席我凍結五板你跟我書面報告好不好因為我覺得各個部會來講的話這些東西都是很重要的基礎啦那我是希望你們好好做那當然也是希望說這個主委未來對這一種AI的一個建設就是可能儘快擴充你們能量跟這個預算好不好"},{"start":8494.502,"end":8517.845,"text":"好 謝謝第9幕來處理第9幕部分這個原定數8502萬8千元我們凍結500萬一個月之內提出書面報告之後 使得凍結第10幕部分推動法規鬆綁與革新強化經貿競爭力陳昌明委員七十一案改正主決議按原定數通過這個第11幕 中興新村"},{"start":8519.144,"end":8543.384,"text":"北中核心維運 原則是4億1812萬5千元我們看72案到74案其中73案賴岳榮 74案陳少平都改成組決議那洪偉你有沒有特別要詢問因為我在中興新村大概也待過三年因為我在公園院的這個中心裡面那時候我在地方創生處的時候"},{"start":8545.1,"end":8562.932,"text":"我意思是說在這個忠於新村啊就跑到國發會這邊來那問題是說從112年我們立法院預算中心來講就已經告訴我們說你們的執行率大概看到只有一半保留數很多執行情數未如預期那審計部"},{"start":8568.641,"end":8591.715,"text":"先讓我講完省基部都多次糾正中興新村活化效益的一個不章我現在想要問的是說針對這些問題你們有沒有改善的東西不然到現在看起來我還是一樣我的問題是這樣子我也不曉得你們這些主委副主委是不是有到中興新村裡面去真的看過簡直是蕭條蕭條"},{"start":8598.817,"end":8600.77,"text":"然後也沒有什麼人然後就是"},{"start":8602.074,"end":8629.108,"text":"我在路上我在這三年在那裡上班的時候啊這個看過去都是老人也沒有多吃就是小狗路邊所以我是覺得這個政府花這麼多錢在維護這些有沒有想辦法把它活化然後找個什麼東西那個地是很好的但是我是覺得你們的活化成效益真的不髒這個是我想要表達可以說明一下請中間新村辦公室這個吳主任先回答"},{"start":8631.984,"end":8657.067,"text":"向各位委員報告那中興新村的活化可能委員已經離開那邊蠻久的好那我們因為中興新村的活化我們主要編列的預算是在112年到116年的公有資產活化建設計畫所以在去年開始大概陸續我們整修後的宿舍都已經完工那我們中興會堂"},{"start":8658.488,"end":8676.402,"text":"6月6號就要辦重新啟用那另外的部分就是我們閒置的一些空間都開始已經有做標注那我們那邊現在也有6月6號有那個特色的餐廳然後也有民宿區那我們之前在從112年到114年我們的執行率都達到90幾%"},{"start":8681.646,"end":8709.855,"text":"那我們在活化的部分目前我們沒有審計部的糾正可能那個是以前在中科管理的時候有審計部的糾正所以到行政院的時候那後來決定就是說到底是由財政部接還是誰來接所以後來在國化會陳前主委的時候他覺得可能是由國化會因為國化會可能編列預算會比其他來編列預算要不然可能現在會更"},{"start":8711.468,"end":8736.09,"text":"就在建設的部分會更慘 那個謝易鳳委員他有到我們那邊實地去勘察 那如果是說那個洪委員你覺得那個中興新村的部分可能你的想像我們是不是建議就是說 沃委員我們到中興新村再去看一下你可以看到我們最近的一些成果 就跟以前真的是有差別的 以上報告謝謝謝易鳳委員 之後請楊選一委員"},{"start":8741.299,"end":8753.817,"text":"主席還有主委其實中興新村的活化我們都是很希望說中興新村可以活化那當然洪委員提到就是說要刪預算"},{"start":8754.798,"end":8774.212,"text":"我覺得因為委員會不能夠按照預算法的規定我們不能增加預算其實中興新圈活化必須要增加預算那這個部分是國發會需要去整體考量以及綜合規劃的我認為中興新圈的確是一個很好的一個地方"},{"start":8774.972,"end":8802.667,"text":"未来怎么样子活化让不管是地方创生以及我们的学界还有产业界都能够共同进驻然后协助中部地区的一些产学共同的发展这是我们需要共同去努力的方向那所以才麻烦就是说因为这个预算已经不足了因为刚才那个大家说要去中心论考察我上次跟那个副主委去过"},{"start":8803.967,"end":8826.164,"text":"我們坐那個非常老舊的車 我覺得有一點危險喔所以下次如果要考察的話 可能為了各位委員的安全來著想應該要請立法院派車好 要請那個 梁學園委員之後再請鄭天才委員來做總結"},{"start":8829.043,"end":8856.55,"text":"主席 楊卿發言其實看到這個我真的是心很酸因為我來自省議會所以在這九年當中省政府的車水馬龍省政府中興新村的風光這中興新村以及台灣省議會為我們台灣的政治做了很多的決定很多的決策也做了很多的發展"},{"start":8857.85,"end":8879.539,"text":"這當時是如此 尤其現場的鄭天才委員 他更是貢獻良多他在省政府的時候 做了很多決策性的法律面當時因為我們是省議員 他是省政府的公務人員所以我們合作做了很多事 中益青春是在劉敬清主委"},{"start":8880.399,"end":8902.167,"text":"我告訴他 我拜託他我說一個台灣的政治中心 為了國家做了這麼多事情你把它放在那裡 省政府正門口下去那一些大棵的樹 那些榕樹 散種的榕樹是世界的寶貝 不是只有我們台灣的國寶"},{"start":8904.008,"end":8931.854,"text":"那你讓它一直凋零所以在劉靜清主委的時候就努力去把那些樹再養起來我們的陽光草坪當時有多少親子活動在那裡辦讓我們看到台灣的美寶島的水寶島的溫暖可是現在呢台灣省這個資料這個什麼台灣省資料館那時候所有全世界各國的"},{"start":8932.794,"end":8959.723,"text":"官員都到我們的省資料館是這麼莊嚴的一個地方現在建築物在但是怎麼呢有多少人去看包括到後面我們的中心會所中心會所是以前所有的音樂廳等都是非常的熱情非常的展現炫耀的一個燦爛但是現在呢"},{"start":8963.322,"end":8970.892,"text":"那一些也是等於不能講古蹟 但是也是國寶當時官員的宿舍那一些有的攤在那裡 為奧迪壓去這怎麼辦"},{"start":8979.696,"end":8998.732,"text":"所以我看到中興新村我認為台灣在中興地方最好的這個資源不管是地理位置我們的建築物我們要怎麼樣把它定位這是一個重點要怎麼定位 現在我們的中興新村就是進去賣洋蔥麵的臭豆腐的友人再進去"},{"start":9004.861,"end":9016.852,"text":"那個地震還要我們把它留下來光復把它留下來地震這個博物館留在那邊那但是我真的要語重心長的說"},{"start":9018.864,"end":9043.325,"text":"這麼重要的地理位置 這麼重要的歷史脈絡我們要把它定位什麼 包括我們省鎮路那一棟大樓門面全部落差的 破的破 我看了要流淚了所以我趕快給劉靜靜主委說 你想不到你那個顏面去把它弄好裡面沒位那麼重 你至少裡面整理整理"},{"start":9043.985,"end":9062.225,"text":"你要有單位在那裡面你也要讓我們的員工有乾淨舒適的地方啊不要炫麗嘛但是你要乾淨要舒適啊他才有辦法辦公啊所以現在你看到表面的那些五彩色是劉金星主委當時所做的"},{"start":9063.476,"end":9078.984,"text":"但是我非常希望葉主委你頭腦非常好應該要去整合我們的單位你要去設定我今天中醫新村我的定位我的角色到底是什麼而不是我們說呢你會把我剝了 給我拆下來我們沒有一個靈魂啊動神之後我們沒有靈魂啊中醫新村的角色沒靈魂啊他到底是什麼我覺得這個是我們很重要很重要的"},{"start":9092.13,"end":9113.523,"text":"政治歷史脈動民主歷史脈動非常非常的重要你看一進來左邊交通處建設廳這些都是創造了我們所有國家很重要建設落實現在我們在使用的國家重大建設你不能讓他攤在那裡啊"},{"start":9115.874,"end":9137.38,"text":"所以我語重心長的說我再一次說我希望我們做一個主決議中興新村的角色定位到底要什麼國發會你來研討好不好 寫一個主決議你要研討你要有一個靈魂出來我到底要做什麼嘛你要讓我們員工大家有光榮啊"},{"start":9139.298,"end":9160.434,"text":"你看你到綜藝新軍去看我們的員工告訴他沒有啊 我也覺得對不起他們啊我也覺得很難過這個好 謝謝我聽了這個委員說令人感動這個鄭委員你講過之後 我也要與中心常常說要休息七分鐘"},{"start":9162.425,"end":9190.046,"text":"那回來我們再處理你回本之後我們休息7分鐘回來再處理好 剛才楊卓英委員已經講得很詳細了我就簡單的說我在中英新村住了20多年了我住了20多年所以這個當初要把這個中英新村的整個"},{"start":9192.246,"end":9208.102,"text":"歸給國家發展委員會我一開始也是很訝異了但是可能有很理想的遠大的目標才會放在國家發展的國發會如果我們看國發會的組織組織法的這個執掌所以應該要與國家發展"},{"start":9215.944,"end":9239.876,"text":"來去看待整個規劃去推動所以這個部分真的是以重心長所以大家也都是善意的了所以怎麼樣去處理今天的提案是不是就不要刪減然後我們更積極的去推動以上謝謝"},{"start":9241.016,"end":9247.139,"text":"好 我與鍾行長說 現在休息7分鐘7分鐘請國會是不是針對這個各位的詢問寫一個主決議讓整個案可以做一個共識好 現在休息7分鐘不要先閃我要上廁所"},{"start":9284.196,"end":9296.762,"text":"對,然後就按照我們這一個建議修改文字嘛然後就知道我們這邊建議修改文字應該這都不需要修改文字對啦,這可以拍照對,對,對,對然後這個也是,這是正大版對,對,對,我有時候做修改文字建議只要是打一台電腦"},{"start":9311.048,"end":9313.11,"text":"這間餐廳的餐廳主要是為了提供餐廳的餐廳餐廳"},{"start":9329.566,"end":9330.047,"text":"美国美国"},{"start":9344.796,"end":9346.097,"text":"這裏面是一座廟宇,這裏面是一座廟宇"},{"start":9363.387,"end":9368.591,"text":"這間餐廳有很多不同的餐廳。這間餐廳有很多不同的食物。"},{"start":9387.168,"end":9390.331,"text":"這座樓宇是一座大廈。這座樓宇是一座大廈。"},{"start":9405.469,"end":9407.27,"text":"我看你想的是跟你開玩笑的"},{"start":9427.619,"end":9428.56,"text":"我已經有預料了。"},{"start":9441.622,"end":9451.51,"text":"還好前面是我們的住宅,我們前面是我的住宅他還嫁在這邊,又遇到韓國人,又遇到韓國人都不懂,都不懂,都不懂,都不懂,都不懂,都不懂"},{"start":9460.016,"end":9461.657,"text":"沙漠中央大廈的大廈"},{"start":9478.643,"end":9480.625,"text":"中文字幕志愿者 杨茜茜"},{"start":9505.265,"end":9516.118,"text":"這裏面是一間餐廳。餐廳內的餐廳有很多不同的東西。"},{"start":9522.384,"end":9524.165,"text":"這座樓宇是一座建築物的主要建築。"},{"start":9541.194,"end":9543.295,"text":"中文字幕志愿者 杨茜茜"},{"start":9568.51,"end":9570.731,"text":"這座樓宇是一座大廈的主要建築。"},{"start":9584.219,"end":9593.645,"text":"我都覺得那個時辰很健康,很舒服,很舒服,很舒服,很舒服"},{"start":9610.855,"end":9614.656,"text":"這座樓宇是一座建築物的最大建築物。"},{"start":9633.823,"end":9634.724,"text":"這裏是一間餐廳。餐廳是一間餐廳。"},{"start":9650.582,"end":9656.888,"text":"這裏有很多不同的餐廳,包括餐廳餐廳、餐廳餐廳、餐廳餐廳、餐廳餐廳。"},{"start":9683.246,"end":9684.907,"text":"我們繼續開會繼續處理這個第11幕中心村北縱核心"},{"start":9700.224,"end":9724.963,"text":"維運的預算這個是不是還有新的組決議這樣子 我們這樣子新的組決議是在寫不用啦 不用 不用反正我就覺得就是凍結然後你來做一個報告因為我覺得大家都很有感興趣搞不好請我們邱昭偉去安排因為我讓你中興新村最大的問題是"},{"start":9726.943,"end":9750.465,"text":"就像剛剛楊瓊英文講的它其實地理環境很好可是你們的這種規劃的思維跟這個招租就是說你怎麼讓更多的人進去我跟你講我在三年那邊工作的經驗我還不在你們中心做我還是在工研院跟製車位的創新研究中心那邊大樓比你們更新我在那邊找不到工程師廠商進駐率只有40%"},{"start":9752.008,"end":9756.894,"text":"金額大概不是重量,就是說他一定要提出完整書面報告"},{"start":9771.989,"end":9775.81,"text":"書面報告給我書面報告裡面就要把你主決意念都寫在裡面的"},{"start":9797.367,"end":9822.614,"text":"剛剛這個我們幾位委員關心這個詢問的事項一邊在你們這個書面報告裡面都要詳細的先載明或者說明清楚是在這個書面報告要詳細的這個說明清楚好讓我們第11幕中興新村北中核心維運這個我們凍結1000萬一個月之內提出書面報告之後使得凍之好謝謝我們現在處理主決議"},{"start":9825.353,"end":9825.854,"text":"從75案開始75案 國會意見"},{"start":9834.504,"end":9855.815,"text":"國會意見我問你主委你就要回答請國會意見這樣我們是不是建議那個著修文字那文字著修的部分是在後面算來第三行那邊國發會會統相關部會然後依整體關稅措施及協議進度審慎評估對國內產業的產業及經濟之影響妥為研擬相關因應政策"},{"start":9862.518,"end":9880.044,"text":"逼順利達成國家發展目標OK 第75案按照修正文通過76案這個等一下 這個允儀跟會同相關部那不是港藝署而且你國發會你本來可以組長啊你幹嘛還要寫一個會同相關你國發會本來不是 主席我剛剛從頭開始講的他們都沒有聽進去"},{"start":9887.367,"end":9915.168,"text":"你本來國發會你就是組長橫向聯繫啊你還要國發會這麼重要的角色還要寫一個會統相關單你本來就有這個職權啊所以人家寫的是對的啊是云椅啊你為什麼要把你的位階都一直甩掉啊?不要糾結在文字上面你們改這些我覺得不痛不癢就算是該是你們責任你不該負責任但是這樣啊有跟提案委員有說明過"},{"start":9916.249,"end":9925.154,"text":"好 那麽75萬照學生們通過 76萬不是啦 75萬是邱薇宜的提案啦不是啦 只是我們在審啦我是委員會的委員啦 妳會同相關的會我會跟那個理事要打招呼"},{"start":9940.485,"end":9953.772,"text":"對啊 叫原案啊 不要會同相關單位嘛因為國發會自己是 對啊是主責單位欸委員 那個允儀這個部分OK 那個病定期都要公布可不可以就不要"},{"start":9954.472,"end":9973.244,"text":"好啦 那就叫修正文字通過76案 遵照辦理 這案通過77案 也是遵照辦理 遵照辦理通過78案 也是遵照辦理 遵照辦理通過79案749這部分建議著修文字啦那這部分也跟剛剛那個楊委員跟謝委員一樣就是說我們這邊是建議會同"},{"start":9978.447,"end":10007.415,"text":"衛福部以及經濟部還有交通部農業部等相關部會啊也擬具體的改善時程以及配套措施這邊啊就是說這個文字上面可不可以把其他的一些部會都加都加進來這樣子因為交通部這部分不是我那是不是你們管的其他的部會都拉進來的對對對好就是不是就按照國安會建議的求證文字通過好80案遵照辦理遵照辦理通過81案也是遵照辦理遵照辦理通過"},{"start":10010.319,"end":10032.548,"text":"80案我們這邊建議濁修文字濁修文字就在最後一段那個第一行的最後面國發會應這也是會統相關部會啦依整體的關稅措施及協議進度一直到後面並定期對外公佈這部分刪除掉好那照修正文通過"},{"start":10034.746,"end":10060.627,"text":"國安會你真的坐小自己委員給你建議說併定期併定期他沒有給你併定期是併一個月三個月五個月這個一年欸你們都不公佈嗎會會會為什麼連這個併定期你也要刪掉他沒有跟你說三個月六個月還是一年欸他沒有跟你說欸你們本來就是要公佈啊"},{"start":10062.775,"end":10089.329,"text":"這個還要刪掉 這個我覺得國防委真的是不要太保守你要容易承擔啊不是說每個月對外公佈讓你們這個可能壓力就大定期時間是說半年一次三個月一次是你們在定但是總是要把你們最新的狀況讓大家知道嘛所以這個你只能讓你改會同相關部位定期對外公佈這個不改"},{"start":10090.814,"end":10112.434,"text":"按照修正文件通過那個定期案 七十五萬啦那個定期 你們真的 你要把你的位置七十五萬喔 把它修回來 那個定期要報告就不用那個啦那個 這樣貴嗎 貴嗎"},{"start":10116.906,"end":10139.666,"text":"八十二 八十二就剛剛討論過了八十三 八十四案這邊建議著修文字 那著修文字是最後面的那個提出書面改善說明報告 改善說明刪掉這樣子就提出書面報告 跟改善說明哪裡有關係"},{"start":10143.052,"end":10163.559,"text":"不要斟酌究其這文字啊主席主席主委你這個把主項不要說建議卓修理人就是一直照念決議裡面喔其實我是不是說這都是整合性的問題你應該是要站在國家發展大格局連這個連這個文字你還要來改喔主席主席主席其實喔同意同意主席"},{"start":10165.74,"end":10188.553,"text":"我先說一下就是其實他這個組決議裡面修的文字都是會同其他部會我們是不是做一個統籌性的這個決議就是把會同其他部會你本來就是一個統籌的一個單位然後去協調的單位你不要再把會同其他就是你們不要再改那些會同其他單位這是一個原則性的問題啊主席是不是這樣子才是"},{"start":10190.165,"end":10217.904,"text":"那個 現在 謝謝那個 剛才那個齁你們要修改文字要先讓主席先看過啊主席你們改什麼 你如果我要處理的時候我看不到我就全部照樣通過不讓你們改了你們改的就不通不一樣完全不是跟你們這個業務特徵沒有什麼關係會改幾個字就讓你們業務更順暢嗎不改就讓你們業務自然難行嗎本身不以為人"},{"start":10220.638,"end":10249.639,"text":"所以現在第幾案?84案,83我們就遵照辦理照案通過85案85也是遵照辦理照案通過86案也是遵照辦理照案通過87案也是遵照辦理照案通過88案遵照辦理照案通過89案遵照辦理照案通過90案也是遵照辦理照案通過91案遵照辦理照案通過92案也是遵照辦理照案通過93案也是遵照辦理照案通過94案也是遵照辦理照案通過95案也是遵照辦理照案通過96案"},{"start":10250.439,"end":10258.227,"text":"專招辦理 專招辦理 專招辦理 專招辦理 專招辦理99案等一下你們說來聽聽在哪裡99案這裡就是美計報告我們這邊是不是可以改成定期報告就不要美計可以"},{"start":10281.922,"end":10287.987,"text":"你那個98案有沒有改?98案專案可以改書面嗎?這個總委員?"},{"start":10287.987,"end":10290.009,"text":"嗯養委員?"},{"start":10290.009,"end":10302.999,"text":"該怎麼辦?不然是那個曾振興說要提專案報告啦要改書面 要不然說國安會改書面啦好 按照修正文件通過改成書面報告"},{"start":10306.141,"end":10329.126,"text":"那這個現在是現在目前全世界最夯的你會書面報告你不要這樣子讓你有機會來報告不是很好嗎主席會排啊主席如果沒有排當然就繼續找時間排啊那你這個這麼重要的連這個你都要書面報告這不是很奇怪嗎"},{"start":10331.186,"end":10353.993,"text":"不是我或者洪委員我們都會排啦不管你有沒有寫專案還是書面我們都會排啦那為什麼要給我們改呢專案報告是我們重視這個案子嘛主席都會排啊照專案報告不要改啦來你要不要變同我那一個提案我的書面報告就改專案"},{"start":10355.342,"end":10375.94,"text":"就這樣一併就處理了沒有啦,那個紅圓,那個已經過了我們就這樣,這個柏文齁好啦,那遵照辦理的意見,這個柏文維持原來不改來,99案99就是說每季可不可以改成定期好,按就是條文通過,100100的話遵照辦理,遵照辦理,102"},{"start":10379.605,"end":10383.887,"text":"103的話103這邊建議鎖修 可是那個委員已經簽名同意修正文字 那修正文字這個部分就是說在最"},{"start":10399.54,"end":10429.04,"text":"最後第二頁後面那個促進國家整體發展之後的話接著就是國發會應督促教育部等相關部會參考新加坡延攬國際優秀學生做法結合企業用人需求進行海外重點招生並提高橋外生生源及未來長期流台比例成為我國戰略性人口與移民之"},{"start":10431.141,"end":10434.604,"text":"針對這個僑生的這個部分因為今年度僑委會的預算增加很多我不知道你這邊跟僑委會有沒有跌床"},{"start":10457.608,"end":10472.936,"text":"這個重疊的這個部分沒有你知不知道喬委會這一次針對這個部分他增加了很多的預算對他增加但他會是在那個喬居地那邊設點那我們這一邊的話是結合教育部"},{"start":10473.396,"end":10497.863,"text":"沒有錯了主委所以我就懷疑有沒有重疊他們現在也是在我們當地北中南我還特別要求在我們台中辦一場本來是在台北跟高雄辦所以我們台中辦了他是針對來到這邊的僑生希望留在台灣的這個部分增加跟你的是一樣啊他也是跟教育部啊"},{"start":10498.804,"end":10504.074,"text":"對那我們還會多做一項就是在做法規的那一個調試這一塊所以我們會提那個比如說攬財專法會開始就法規面開始去做鬆綁"},{"start":10511.209,"end":10535.608,"text":"一般你預計怎麼做給我好嗎因為這個怎麼會因為僑委會我也突然間增加那麼多預算他的解讀是解釋是如此那跟你講的很雷同那103的部分拿給所有委員看一下我覺得我看完你們這樣改會不會比原提案好增加很多這個該提的事項都有在你們報告裡面按照"},{"start":10536.929,"end":10558.493,"text":"按照修正文字通過104104的話這邊也是一樣就是委員已經簽名同意修正文字那這邊的文字就是以那個宗家兵有跟他說明的一五簽名按照修正文字通過105也是一樣委員已經簽名同意撤案"},{"start":10559.662,"end":10564.424,"text":"統一測案好有看到了105案測案106 專照辦理 算公過107 專照辦理 算公過好新增107之一 這邊也是專照辦理 內容107之一就我拿來 專照辦理"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}