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114項"},{"start":1850.726,"end":1857.271,"text":"台灣新竹地方檢察署3億6020萬3千元115項台灣苗栗地方檢察署1億9421萬1千元1億6項台灣台中地方檢察署11億7865萬元1億7項台灣南投地方檢察署1億7663萬2千元"},{"start":1869.521,"end":1876.586,"text":"118 向台灣彰化地方檢查署4億7,662萬3千元119 向台灣雲林地方檢查署2億2,513萬3千元120 向台灣嘉義地方檢查署2億8,057萬2千元121 向台灣台南地方檢查署6億5,493萬1千元122 向台灣橋頭地方檢查署3億8,172萬4千元"},{"start":1896.055,"end":1904.525,"text":"一二三項 台灣高雄地方檢查署6億1111萬8千元一二四項 台灣屏東地方檢查署3億4767萬5千元一二五項 台灣台東地方檢查署1億1038萬7千元一二六項 台灣花蓮地方檢查署1億2671萬4千元"},{"start":1916.039,"end":1933.57,"text":"一二七項台灣宜蘭地方檢查署一億五千四百六十三萬九千元一二八項台灣基隆地方檢查署一億二千九百九十三萬三千元一二九項台灣澎湖地方檢查署四千五百零六萬一千元一三零項福建金門地方檢查署三千六百八十八萬七千元"},{"start":1935.492,"end":1940.937,"text":"131項福建連江地方檢查署527萬5000元132項調查局93萬1000元第三款規費收入82項法務部237萬6000元83項司法官學院1000元84項矯正署及所屬199000元85項行政執行署及所屬18000元86項最高檢查署2000元87項台灣"},{"start":1960.874,"end":1977.246,"text":"台北地方檢查署九萬二千元八十八項台灣市立地方檢查署三千元八十九項台灣新北地方檢查署五萬元九十項台灣桃園地方檢查署三萬二千元九十一項台灣新竹地方檢查署八千元九十二項台灣苗栗地方檢查署五千元九十三項台灣台中地方檢查署三萬三千元"},{"start":1978.376,"end":1991.939,"text":"94項 台灣南都地方檢查署1000元95項 台灣彰化地方檢查署14000元96項 台灣雲林地方檢查署9000元97項 台灣嘉義地方檢查署7000元98項 台灣台南地方檢查署17000元99項 台灣橋頭地方檢查署30000元100項 台灣高雄地方檢查署38000元101項 台灣屏東地方檢查署6000元102項 台灣台東地方檢查署5000元"},{"start":2005.05,"end":2018.3,"text":"103項 台灣花蓮地方檢查署4000元104項 台灣宜蘭地方檢查署4000元105項 台灣基隆地方檢查署5000元106項 福建金門地方檢查署2000元107項 調查局189萬元第4款財產收入108項 法務部123萬1000元109項 司法官學院96000元10項 法醫研究所31萬111項"},{"start":2029.309,"end":2045.832,"text":"廉政署五萬四千元一一二項矯正署及所屬二千一百七十五萬四千元一一三項行政執行署及所屬六百三十七萬五千元一一四項最高檢查署八千元一一五項台灣高等檢查署七萬三千元一一六項台灣高等檢查署台中檢查分署八萬元"},{"start":2046.892,"end":2052.575,"text":"117項 臺灣高等檢查署台南檢查分數19000元118項 臺灣高等檢查署高雄檢查分數119000元119項 臺灣高等檢查署花蓮檢查分數49000元120項 臺灣高等檢查署智慧財產檢查分數3000元121項"},{"start":2062.514,"end":2085.402,"text":"臺灣臺北地方檢查署四十一萬八千元一二項臺灣士林地方檢查署十二萬七千元一二三項臺灣新北地方檢查署六萬元一二四項臺灣桃園地方檢查署一二一萬五千元一二五項臺灣新竹地方檢查署二萬九千元一二六項臺灣苗栗地方檢查署四十六萬七千元一二七項臺灣台中地方檢查署三十一萬八千元一二八項臺灣南投地方檢查署十五萬一千元"},{"start":2087.081,"end":2091.406,"text":"129 像台灣彰化地方檢查署36000元130 像台灣雲林地方檢查署69000元131 像台灣嘉義地方檢查署163000元132 像台灣台南地方檢查署231000元133 像"},{"start":2101.214,"end":2123.04,"text":"臺灣橋頭地方檢查署三萬八千元一三十項臺灣高雄地方檢查署十九萬一千元一三五項臺灣屏東地方檢查署七萬四千元一三六項臺灣臺東地方檢查署九萬五千元一三七項臺灣花蓮地方檢查署三萬八千元一三八項臺灣宜蘭地方檢查署十三萬七千元一三九項臺灣基隆地方檢查署九千元一四零項臺灣澎湖地方檢查署三萬一千元"},{"start":2123.615,"end":2145.29,"text":"疑似一項福建高等檢查署金門檢查分數五千元疑似二項福建金門地方檢查署四萬元疑似三項福建連江地方檢查署一萬四千元疑似四項調查局一百三十六萬四千元第七款其他收入107項法務部六十五萬四千元108項司法官學院一萬五千元109項連政署二十三萬五千元"},{"start":2145.99,"end":2156.275,"text":"110 向早證署及所屬8,720.9萬元111 向行政執行署及所屬250.1萬元112 向最高檢查署40.4萬元113 向臺灣高等檢查署133.3萬元114 向臺灣高等檢查署檢查分數40.3萬元115 向臺灣高等檢查署台南檢查分數231,000元116 向臺灣高等檢查署高中檢查分數38萬元117 向臺灣高等檢查署花蓮檢查分數167,000元"},{"start":2175.517,"end":2184.342,"text":"118 向台灣高等檢查處智慧財產檢查分數9000元119 向台灣台北地方檢查處2443萬2000元120 向台灣市林地方檢查處236萬9000元121 向台灣新北地方檢查處5628萬5000元122 向台灣桃園地方檢查處4254萬元123 向台灣新竹地方檢查處128萬2000元124 向台灣苗栗地方檢查處108萬9000元125 向"},{"start":2203.397,"end":2229.878,"text":"臺灣台中地方檢查署 二億六千六百一十四萬八千元一百二十六項 臺灣南投地方檢查署 四十七萬九千元一二七項 臺灣彰化地方檢查署 一百二十一萬元一二八項 臺灣雲林地方檢查署 六十三萬五千元一二九項 臺灣嘉義地方檢查署 四十四萬五千元一三零項 臺灣台南地方檢查署 七百二十二萬三千元一三一項 臺灣橋頭地方檢查署 一百一十五萬五千元一三二項 臺灣高雄地方檢查署 一千七百"},{"start":2230.598,"end":2256.158,"text":"一十五萬九千元一三三項台灣屏東地方檢查署一百四十九萬一千元一三四項台灣台東地方檢查署八十七萬八千元一三五項台灣花陵地方檢查署九十八萬六千元一三六項台灣宜蘭地方檢查署九七十五萬四千元一三七項台灣基隆地方檢查署一百一十九萬二千元一三八項台灣澎湖地方檢查署二十九萬九千元一三九項福建高等檢查署金門檢查分數三萬五千元一四零項"},{"start":2256.819,"end":2258.967,"text":"福建金門地方檢察署254,000元141巷調查局886,000元"},{"start":2263.722,"end":2273.67,"text":"稅出部分12款法務部主管第一項法務部29億6627萬8千元第二項司法官學院4億5841萬7千元第三項法醫研究所2億0778萬8千元第四項廉政署5億3841萬5千元第五項矯正處及所屬189億7414萬9千元"},{"start":2288.642,"end":2297.568,"text":"第六項 行政執行署即所屬19億2531萬4千元第七項 最高檢查署2億1484萬4千元第八項 臺灣高等檢查署27億0798萬6千元第九項 臺灣高等檢查署台中檢查分數1億8464萬元第十項 臺灣高等檢查署台南檢查分數1億4235萬6千元"},{"start":2312.317,"end":2329.892,"text":"十一項台灣高等檢查署高層檢查分數一億八千四百零三萬五千元十二項台灣高等檢查署化電檢查分數六千一百九十三萬八千元十三項台灣高等檢查署智慧財產檢查分數一千七百三十二萬五千元十四項台灣台北地方檢查署十九億九千三百五十五萬五千元"},{"start":2331.133,"end":2337.498,"text":"15項 台灣士林地方檢查署6億7664萬9千元16項 台灣新北地方檢查署11億9368萬7千元17項 台灣桃園地方檢查署11億1686萬5千元18項 台灣新竹地方檢查署4億4406萬元19項 台灣苗栗地方檢查署3億0435萬6千元"},{"start":2351.909,"end":2367.113,"text":"二十項 臺灣台中地方檢查署23億5025萬3千元二十一項 臺灣南投地方檢查署2億6148萬元二十二項 臺灣彰化地方檢查署5億7365萬4千元二十三項 臺灣雲林地方檢查署3億1267萬2千元二十四項 臺灣嘉義地方檢查署4億0759萬2千元二十五項 臺灣台南地方檢查署7億9638萬8千元 二十六項"},{"start":2378.251,"end":2381.313,"text":"臺灣橋的地方檢查處5億3,266萬9千元27項臺灣高雄地方檢查處10億0906萬4千元28項臺灣屏東地方檢查處4億2,139萬3千元29項臺灣台東地方檢查處1億9,810萬9千元"},{"start":2396.292,"end":2411.435,"text":"30項 台灣化電地方檢查署 二億五千七百零六萬元31項 台灣宜蘭地方檢查署 二億六千零三十七萬七千元32項 台灣基隆地方檢查署 二億七千三百六十六萬三千元33項 台灣澎湖地方檢查署 一億二千五百零一萬一千元"},{"start":2411.955,"end":2419.42,"text":"三四項福建高等檢查署金門檢查分數2559萬5000元三十五項福建金門地方檢查署7658萬7000元三六項福建連江地方檢查署2608萬元三七項調查局86億8335萬元討論事項第二案"},{"start":2431.747,"end":2436.989,"text":"法務部矯正機關矯正機關作業基金業務計劃請參與預算書業務收支業務總收入是1億2239萬6千元業務總支出12億4381萬6千元本期短處1億2142萬元減少公戶金額無劣數轉投資計劃無劣數固定資產建設改良擴充1065萬2千元國庫增波"},{"start":2455.778,"end":2463.043,"text":"基金額無劣數討論事項第三案115年度毒品防治基金業務計劃請參閱預算書基金來源6億6229萬1千元基金用途6億8951萬7千元本期短住2722萬6千元結繳公庫無劣數"},{"start":2472.87,"end":2484.177,"text":"第四案 法務部主管115年度財團法人 台灣更生保護會預算書 業務計畫及參與預算書 業務收支 業務總收入3億8968萬6千元 業務總支出3億8968萬6千元 本期餘出0元 結繳公募金額無列數 轉投資計畫無列數 固定資產投資974萬3千元 國庫增撥基金額無列數"},{"start":2497.624,"end":2503.43,"text":"財團法人福建更生保護會預算書業務計劃及參閱預算書業務收支業務總收入9152,000元業務總支出9152,000元本期預儲0元績表公戶金額無劣數轉投資計劃無劣數固定資產投資190,500元國庫增波期金額無劣數"},{"start":2516.224,"end":2537.343,"text":"115年度財團法人犯罪被害人保護協會預算書業務計劃請參與預算書業務收支 業務總收入四億零二百七十七萬二千元 業務總支出四億零二百七十七萬二千元 本期預出零元計較公庫金額無劣數 轉投資計劃無劣數 固定資產投資五百一十九萬八千元 撥庫增撥基金額無劣數"},{"start":2539.654,"end":2556.001,"text":"繼續宣讀提案會整表部分法務部主管收支部分稅出第十二款第一項法務部媒體政策及業務宣導費為第一案及第二案派遣出國計劃為第三案業務費第四案至第六案第一幕一般行政為第七案至第十二案"},{"start":2556.721,"end":2580.809,"text":"第二幕法務行政為第13案至第25案第三幕一般建築及設備第二節其他設備為第26案及第27案第五幕司法科技業務為第28案主決議部分為第29案至第47案第四項廉政署第二幕廉政業務為第48案及第49案第五幕司法科技業務為第50案主決議部分為第51案"},{"start":2584.11,"end":2590.125,"text":"第五項矯正署及所屬第一目一般行政為第52案第二目矯正業務為第53案及"},{"start":2592.735,"end":2616.249,"text":"第六十一案 第三目改善監所計劃為第六十二案第四目一般建築及設備第一節交通及運輸設備為第六十三案主決議部分為第六十四案至第六十九案第六項行政執行署及所屬第三目執行案件處理為第七十案主決議部分為第七十一案第七項最高檢察署"},{"start":2617.21,"end":2634.44,"text":"第一幕一般行政為第七十二案第二幕檢查業務為第七十三案及第七十四案第八項台灣高等檢查署第二幕檢查業務為第七十五案至第七十八案第十六項台灣新北地方檢查署第二幕檢查業務為第七十九案"},{"start":2635.1,"end":2652.046,"text":"第十七項 台灣桃園地方檢查署第二幕檢查業務為第八十案第十八項 台灣新竹地方檢查署第二幕檢查業務為第八十一案第十九項 台灣苗栗地方檢查署第二幕檢查業務為第八十二案第二十項"},{"start":2653.166,"end":2670.075,"text":"台灣台中地方檢查署第二目檢查業務為第83案第二十一項台灣南投地方檢查署第二目檢查業務為第84案第二十四項台灣嘉義地方檢查署第二目檢查業務為第85案第二十六項台灣橋頭地方檢查署第二目檢查業務為第86案"},{"start":2672.156,"end":2688.059,"text":"第二十九項台灣台東地方檢查署第二幕檢查業務為第八十七案第三十項台灣花蓮地方檢查署第二幕檢查業務為第八十八案第三十一項台灣宜蘭地方檢查署第二幕檢查業務為第八十九案"},{"start":2688.86,"end":2715.913,"text":"第三十七項調查局第一幕一般行政為第九十案至第九十二案第二幕司法調查業務為第九十三案及第九十四案第三幕鑑識科學及通訊監察業務為第九十五案法務部矯正機關作業基金部分第一案銷貨收入增列五百萬財團法人台灣更生保護費部分第一案為主決議以上提案及修正內容請委員參閱書面資料宣讀完畢"},{"start":2721.032,"end":2742.352,"text":"好 那麼現在預算書及所有的提案都已經宣讀完畢那我們進行討論之前就先說明預算案的處理方式依照委員會處理預算提案的慣例 稅入的部分就依來源別以向為單位稅出部分就依機關別以目為單位 分別依序進行審查那各單位預算中於"},{"start":2743.292,"end":2757.463,"text":"處理委員所提的增三提案之後其餘未涉及的預算部分我們就均與照列有關正式別的稅出預算隨同機關別審查結果調整那麼預算的提案我們必須由整理那麼"},{"start":2759.901,"end":2770.526,"text":"除了將所有委員提案裝訂成提案本並且在編列序號製作成會診表方便委員審查時參考那麼接下來我們就開始進行審查然後請各位一併參閱提案本及會診表來進行討論"},{"start":2775.56,"end":2800.782,"text":"另外請機關要注意就稍後經過討論決議修正預算提案請機關要將修正內容經過提案委員簽名同意後送交主席台並列入公報記錄那審查預算過程當中如果有列席幕僚與首次答覆委員問題發言的時候就請先自行介紹職稱姓名以立公報人員記錄"},{"start":2803.988,"end":2822.829,"text":"好 那麼我們就現在開始進行討論事項的第一案我們就繼續審查115年度中央政府總預算案有關於法務部及所屬主管收支的部分我們就先處理稅務的部分因為稅務的部分沒有委員提案所以我們稅務的部分我們就均照列"},{"start":2824.416,"end":2851.129,"text":"那麼稅務處理完畢我們就繼續處理稅處的提案就先做說明處理的時候我們就依照慣例還是以目為單位逐目進行處理那麼我們的原則就是按會整表所排列的提案順序那先由各提案委員先就該目中的提案內容進行說明那提案委員與該目如果有兩個以上提案時請一併說明然後再由機關代表予以答覆那麼之後就針對整目一起處理做成決議"},{"start":2852.049,"end":2856.976,"text":"但委員如果有跨個目的提案則先行處理處理後再依照個目的順序進行處理"},{"start":2860.233,"end":2885.369,"text":"好 那麼我們接著就先處理稅出表請參閱提案本集會整表的稅出的部分提案由於所收委員提案當中第一案到第六案為第十二款第一項跨個目的提案所以我們就先進行討論先由各提案委員就提案內容進行說明那提案委員於本項如果有兩個以上提案時候可以一併說明然後再由機關代表予以答覆"},{"start":2890.47,"end":2894.475,"text":"我們現在是先第一案是到我們先處理第二案"},{"start":2899.195,"end":2924.81,"text":"好 我們就先處理第一案跟第二案因為這都是跟媒體政策及業務宣導費有關那麼前面兩案第一案是由本席所提出的第二案是徐宇甄委員提出的那麼第二案因為徐宇甄委員已經和這個法務部這裡已經溝通過了那麼就做 已經改為檢列100萬 然後取消凍結那本席這邊的話"},{"start":2928.66,"end":2929.781,"text":"我當時提出有關於沒宣費的部分因為防護部在沒宣費115年編列了1446萬比去年增加了972萬那保護司就編列了430萬反賄選但是為什麼由保護司來編"},{"start":2949.781,"end":2971.945,"text":"反賄選的沒宣費本席也認為不合理反賄選是跟保護司有關嗎所以本席在這裡就提出要刪減這個增加的沒宣費的部分所以在115年度法務部的預算本席在這裡提案要刪減972萬法務部有沒有要說明的"},{"start":2976.877,"end":3004.506,"text":"這個保護師的這部分因為那個15年主要是增加的確是我們是增加是九合一辦理反賄選的宣導是經費是430萬那當然是說是比上次的法定預算是增加900多萬但是以14年來比較是增加300多萬所以我們跟14年當初原來的預算案的時候是增加300多萬事實上是會擠壓到其他的一個宣導的一個費用"},{"start":3005.826,"end":3018.513,"text":"那這部分保護師的這個訪會選因為長久以來每一次的一個選舉保護師都要去做訪會選的一個宣導去結合各地的一些的機關來做訪會選這部分詳細的事我請保護司司長來跟委員報告"},{"start":3025.755,"end":3047.151,"text":"保護司長洪信去向委員報告那保護司負責的其實有法律宣導跟法治教育所以這個緩衛選宣導是屬於我們業館的項目所以我們這個預算才有我們編這邊跟委員報告一下那今年會比較多是因為剛好有選舉所以我們編緩衛選的經會所以跟委員報告說經會會增是因為緩衛選有選舉所以編緩衛選的經會"},{"start":3056.601,"end":3075.909,"text":"那麼這個針對反會選進行宣導我本身是認為應該也必要但是呢第一個就是說法務部的這個今年的沒宣費大幅增加972萬那麼事實上就是說以去年來講其實法務部仍然是可以做相當的這個業務的宣導有沒有必要增加了972萬將近1000萬的"},{"start":3079.43,"end":3088.158,"text":"這個沒宣費的這個這筆費用本席是有所保留那麼第二個就是說是保護司其實不應該去做反賄選的這個宣導就是一般的這個你們的業務範圍應該不涉及這反賄選如果要編的話可能也編在什麼的"},{"start":3097.125,"end":3102.848,"text":"你們的其他的這法務部的什麼檢察司等等的那麼所以當然這個是因為可能你們過去就是所謂涵蓋在什麼法律教育的宣導裡面一併去辦理但是我認為說這個業務必須要調整這不是屬於保護司的"},{"start":3115.115,"end":3140.265,"text":"業務的話那麼你們的之後的相關的宣導應該是編載其他的業務單位可能會比較合理那麼再加上就是說是其實反賄選這是長期以來一直都在持續在做的有些而且法條的內容也沒有什麼改變所以我本席認為說不需要編列這麼多的錢然後去做沒宣那整個法務部的我現在講是整個法務部的沒宣費就應該要遵截使用"},{"start":3141.059,"end":3148.624,"text":"不宜比去年再多增加一千萬這個部分是本席的看法主席各位同仁這個我想有幾個問題我們提案人趙偉剛才也說明他提案的理由"},{"start":3166.926,"end":3182.298,"text":"那我個人認為有幾個這裡面就是有幾個事情釐清第一個就是說所謂說媒體政策及業務宣導費這個部分的增加我們要比較的不是跟去年而是跟上一次的選舉年"},{"start":3183.999,"end":3207.658,"text":"因為每一次有選舉這跟這個監察院的業務一樣每年監察院到選舉年他的這個相關的業務費就會增加為什麼因為他有候選人的財產申報他有這個候選人政治獻金等等這些選舉年增加的業務那麼這個所以我們要跟上一次的選舉年比較說這一次我們到底黨會選的經費有增加多少而不是跟去年沒有選舉的時候來比較這個媒體宣傳費這是我提的第一點第二點就是說"},{"start":3215.813,"end":3239.884,"text":"這個究竟是不是由保護司來做那如果提案人認為說不是由保護司來做不應該由保護司來做那就是提案人到底應該由哪一個司來做在我看這個就是正式保護司的業務他宣導法治教育不管是反賄選不管是反詐騙不管是反酒駕不管是反毒駕不管是反額虐反什麼這些都法律宣導"},{"start":3241.064,"end":3252.934,"text":"那你今天你提反詐騙的這個宣導要不要也來檢討我們反惹虐要不要也來檢討我們反求家要不要也來檢討那你特別把反賄選拿出來檢討我個人認為說這個會"},{"start":3259.042,"end":3274.144,"text":"引起社會的疑慮啦 瓜點以下啦我個人 這個我們主席可能是沒有在地方參選過我個人參與選舉到現在這樣子30幾年快40年的時間事實上這樣子的每一年在選舉的時候這種"},{"start":3275.666,"end":3297.378,"text":"法務部以及相關警察單位他們的反賄選其實是相當有作用的在我們面對因為事實上賄選的查查非常非常不容易他必須他必須要有有有他的這個這個取證是非常非常非常困難的所以這樣子的這個反賄選的宣導事實上他對於這個這個"},{"start":3300.935,"end":3323.189,"text":"不是針對賄選這個我買票的人的遏止而是對於收錢的一般民眾收錢的遏止事實上是非常非常有效的因為你再看到當我們在選舉年的時候一般民眾可以再透過這個各種媒體管道得到這個有關賄選他的這個相關的法律規定制裁"},{"start":3324.338,"end":3333.421,"text":"條文等等以及他各種態樣的宣導這個對於這個一般民眾如果說收到有這樣子會選的疑慮的這些禮品或者是相關的這樣子的對價關係一般民眾因為這樣的宣導可以確實在選舉的會選裡面他去會選的行為態樣確實有相當的遏制作用這我個人以我個人的選舉經驗是這樣子的那"},{"start":3354.727,"end":3372.139,"text":"所以在這個選舉年我們現在一口氣刪減了將近一千萬九百七十二萬這等於是意思就是說你們今年不要辦反會選的業務了為什麼我們司法法制委員會要做出一個決議來說今年不要辦反會選呢這個我認為說傳達這樣的訊息會引起社會上面很大的誤解所以這個是我個人對於這個"},{"start":3384.758,"end":3387.983,"text":"我個人對於這條減略972萬4千元的預算我個人表達反對的意思以上好 請張委員"},{"start":3399.107,"end":3422.557,"text":"好那我想115年編列這個1400多萬元跟114年如果看上面的數字上面是增加了400多萬但是問題是114年其實是一個被大幅刪減過的一個年度所以基期本來就是比較低的如果我們跟113年相比其實大概只有增加300多萬這個之前我也有了解過那所以呢這個呢我覺得還要特別剛剛沈委員也有講到因為今年是九合一大選"},{"start":3423.397,"end":3434.692,"text":"這個其實對於查匯反匯選的一些宣傳其實非常重要那這特別是我想最近朝野立委不分黨派大家都一致的關心獨駕這件事情那獨駕呢在"},{"start":3436.798,"end":3453.592,"text":"這個校園就是吸食這個喪屍煙彈呢在學校其實是非常氾濫的一件事情那其實它要更加強它的一些宣傳阻斷這個源頭嘛那加上這些新興毒品的變化非常非常的快所以這個其實是需要很強強大的一個媒體的宣傳那當然還有這個詐騙的這些問題所以我想就是說這一筆的費用呢"},{"start":3459.016,"end":3479.523,"text":"如果要這樣簡略的話 等於是說我們現在所講的這一些訴求我們要反賄選 打擊詐騙 我們要打擊獨家其實都很難做到啦所以還是希望我們主席呢 趙偉呢 也可以再審慎的思考一下畢竟大家都是為了民眾好 大家都為了治安好大家是不是可以一起來支持這筆預算 謝謝"},{"start":3481.224,"end":3509.983,"text":"好謝謝沈委員跟張委員的提醒那麼本席要再次重申我絕對是支持要針對反賄選然後毒品等等反毒品的等等這樣的一個免稅費用但是本席認為說這個費用基本上是編列在保護司是不合理那麼但是剛剛聽了保護司司長有說這看起來也是長年以來的習慣這變得這是保護司的費用我要這樣再重申保護司的這最重要的這個"},{"start":3511.784,"end":3535.272,"text":"業務是在做更生保護犯罪被害人保護社區角質業務等等這些業務如果說對於法律教育或是一般的法治宣導的話你可能未來可能還是要編在法務部的類似法務司啊等等底下法律司等等底下來去做宣導會比較適當那麼當然就是剛剛經過兩位委員都有提醒說是還是認為說這反賄選的這個費用"},{"start":3539.174,"end":3551.047,"text":"需要去反賄選的維生費用需要去支持好那所以本席在這邊的話也考慮到就是這個的重要性我再強調我一直認為這很重要我只是認為說有沒有必要編載保護絲而且以這個"},{"start":3555.598,"end":3571.138,"text":"反會選的類似這樣的媒宣是長年以來一直都有在做的有沒有必要額外再多花一筆費用再去做這個宣傳所以呢基於這樣的考量的話那麼本席可以就是同意就是有關於這個媒宣費的部分"},{"start":3572.439,"end":3590.704,"text":"保護士這裡提出來是編列430萬我430萬我這裡可以支持但是整體而言我還是會刪減因為考慮到就是整個的國家的經費大幅的支出好所以法務部要尊嚴使用那麼過去的一些沒宣其實都還可以拿出來運用因為我們法律並沒有改變太多所以我在這邊的話我就減減減450萬"},{"start":3597.523,"end":3601.914,"text":"如果同意的話那麼就照說就來 前不同意的話我們這案就保留送協商"},{"start":3604.377,"end":3631.53,"text":"報告委員法務部會計處處長發言那這個沒宣費的部分剛剛其實那個第二案的部分我們已經減列一百萬那另外其實第十三案的部分是林沛翔委員的那個部分他已經在我們法務行政也減列了兩百萬所以這個總共目前確定的已經有減列三百萬那後面還有第十九案有凍結四十五萬那個還要待討論"},{"start":3632.45,"end":3640.697,"text":"那因為其實已經確定已經3減300萬那我們這邊也有比較尊爵的檢討是不是可以允許我們小三就是減100萬這樣子這樣加起來就總共減400萬"},{"start":3649.534,"end":3666.552,"text":"或者是合併三四百因為第一案跟第二案就合併那還是我們就一併討論因為實戰案是不同目不過就是還是要考慮到這個理念就是總之如果說是這樣的話就是維修費總統總減掉450萬"},{"start":3672.358,"end":3688.903,"text":"好不好就是第一案就是我的第一案跟徐宇甄委員第二案然後以及之後的那幾個案子就合併起來合併起來總共減減450萬好不好那這樣的話就是請幫忙算一下那我這個案子的話是要減減150嗎"},{"start":3692.492,"end":3721.147,"text":"我們馬上處理 好但這樣的話我們就等到之後我們再回過頭來再來看這個案子的最後的刪減數委員那我們直接可以講因為前面已經刪三百所以這個案子就刪一百五十萬是所以總共就四百五十萬確定了就刪一百五十萬好那這樣的話我們就好我同意那就刪一百五十萬好那一二案好那所以本席在這邊做宣告那一二案合併起來就是三減兩百五十萬"},{"start":3729.219,"end":3752.867,"text":"本期這邊先做第一案跟第二案的宣告那麼最初第12款法務部主管第一項法務部媒體政策及業務宣導費提案案號第一案至第二案就合併簡列250萬並且針對各簡列提案之要求依審查會決議處理那我們就繼續處理派員出國計畫提案案號第三案那麼"},{"start":3757.725,"end":3765.458,"text":"好我們接下來因為我們第三案第三案是徐宇甄委員這裡的提案徐宇甄委員還有需要再說明嗎因為看起來已經溝通過了"},{"start":3766.958,"end":3779.582,"text":"好 謝謝主席根據這一案是派員出國計畫的預算的總表編列了804萬那較去年度增加了484萬2千增幅達到151%那其中開會類的大概有188萬4千增加到559萬4千那計畫數也有12項增加到17項當然增幅明顯的增高"},{"start":3793.727,"end":3811.642,"text":"那因為本席是也支持國際交流但是呢法務部因為你們有司法互助防止洗錢跨境犯罪合作跟法治交流等等相關的職責當然需要跟國際接軌但是不能只有在跟國際合作司法互助這些的概括的理由"},{"start":3812.642,"end":3840.071,"text":"這個帶過並沒有一個明確的合作對象會議預期成果那因為政府的財政資源有限那我們覺得出國經費應該要真正用在這些地方而不是缺乏具體成果的檢核就大幅的擴編預算那跟訪問部溝通之後呢本席也同意減列為50萬但是未來的出國計畫應該要強化成果報告跟追蹤的一個機制讓每一筆公帑都能看到具體的效益謝謝"},{"start":3843.57,"end":3866.636,"text":"那麼好第三案那就因為溝通完畢我們就不用回應了好好謝謝那我們第三案派員出國計畫提案號第三案的討論的結果就是簡列50萬並針對簡列提案的要求依審查會決議處理那我們繼續就處理業務費的部分提案號是第四案到第六案好那麼第四案的部分是"},{"start":3874.127,"end":3901.642,"text":"第四案是本席這裡提出已經溝通完畢已經經過溝通了那麼就是本席改檢列二十萬原來是針對通訊費的部分房屋部編列五百三十二萬那麼本席提案是檢列一百萬後來經過討論之後我們就決議就是檢列二十萬這個部分已經討論清楚了那接下來第五案跟第六案"},{"start":3903.386,"end":3910.774,"text":"都是本席的提案都是跟業務費有關的那麼在第五案的部分請法務部說明一下我本來是說我先說明一下我的部分稍等我一下"},{"start":3925.896,"end":3942.174,"text":"那么第五案的部分是本席针对就是法务部的一般事务费这里的就是他们的提案那么在这个部分是因为法务部在115年度编列的预算"},{"start":3943.075,"end":3971.306,"text":"比114年的法定預算那麼增加了1378萬那麼成長幅度差不多是12.6%但是近三年的執行率其實也就只有差不多七成左右那麼都還有一些剩餘數所以本席認為說不需要這個編列過高的費用因為你們實際上也執行不了這麼多那麼因此本席這裡就是提出就是減"},{"start":3972.946,"end":3981.513,"text":"減列3700萬好那麼這以上是本席當時的提案提案的理由那麼可以請防務部部長先回應"},{"start":3984.876,"end":4011.934,"text":"謝謝這個第五案那個一般事務會科目事實上是跟第一案第十案還第十六案的提案是有重複的那這部分是不是因為這的確是不過是第五案是最主要是因為犯罪被害補償金還有資訊服務會亞派房子洗錢組織的會會跟水電這些的一個經費事實上是有不足的所以這部分是不是可以"},{"start":4013.437,"end":4017.674,"text":"免禦就是可以不用來刪減那就以上補充"},{"start":4019.738,"end":4048.174,"text":"因為這的確是有一個物價還有一些的一些的的新增的這些的還有一些的重複的一個費用齁就是跟第一案第十案跟第十案有重複齁那第一案有三減了九百多那個是剛才講的還好有有稍好有減列了四百那個減列一百五十萬嘛齁那第十案有還有減列九百零六萬那第十六案有一千第十六案"},{"start":4049.034,"end":4055.105,"text":"剛才委員說可能要再討論那這部分是不是我們可以先保留還是"},{"start":4057.403,"end":4070.712,"text":"好那這個案子基本上就是我們本來也有稍微有進行一些溝通事前先去溝通可是本席是認為說你們我提的3700萬其實並不會影響到整個法務部的業務的運作那麼但是有考慮到說你們可能今年有一些業務的增加所以我認為說可以拙減那拙減就是2700萬可是看起來你們也不同意嘛對因為事實上就是確實是法務部沒有必要"},{"start":4088.484,"end":4105.555,"text":"增列這麼多的費用像是什麼辦理什麼兩公約的審查會議啊然後推動檢查洗錢防治業務等等這些因為你們都是例行性在做的業務所以事實上是沒有必要額外再去多增加我現在都講多是多增加的費用"},{"start":4107.93,"end":4128.483,"text":"對 你說像推動檢查洗錢防治業務就多增加了844萬這是歷年來你們本來就該做的事情也不懂為什麼今年要特別要多增加洗錢防治 你看過去也變了那麼多的錢但是事實上在去年的時候還被美國他們那裡也是先提出了有一個什麼洗錢的詐騙組織之後我們檢察署這邊才"},{"start":4132.665,"end":4145.494,"text":"才開始追這個案子所以整體來講就法務部不是說你們錢不夠而是你們事實上執行有執行不力的問題所以我認為說這個費用應該要尊潔不應該要這樣子浪費公帑好 精神委員不是 我建議啦 這個因為這一款這個 這個"},{"start":4156.28,"end":4167.254,"text":"我們主席的提案是等於是跨好幾幕的項目加起來要做一次的統三那我建議說因為他這裡面牽涉到幾個"},{"start":4168.618,"end":4197.687,"text":"可能有幾個比較今年比較特別的業務我們等一下在各幕裡面例如說第十案例如說這個這幾個案子它整個都牽涉到時候可能最重要是說是不是我們這個案子先保留我們保留到後面我們先就它等一下各項包括洗錢業務包括它的這個包括它的這個兩公約辦理的這些案子等一下這個都會在逐幕裡面都會討論那我們是先逐幕等一下等逐幕討論完了之後再回頭來看"},{"start":4198.867,"end":4210.7,"text":"我們已經刪除的這個額度跟主席提案的額度的差別我們再來調整 我就這樣建議好 謝謝沈委員的建議 那麼法務部還有需要說明嗎我們也建議說是不是依照沈委員的建議方式來處理以上"},{"start":4220.08,"end":4222.422,"text":"好那這樣的話我們第五案就先保留回過頭來然後再來討論好那接下來第六案也是本席所提出來的那第六案的部分呢主要是本席有看到就是你們在115年的時候在設施及機械設備的養護費就編列了2549萬"},{"start":4239.737,"end":4245.218,"text":"比114年增加了202萬那麼但是其實你們的執行率很低因為到114年的時候還有剩餘1242萬那麼從這三年的事實上這筆費用就設施及機械設備養護費三年的剩餘數就是你們編列的錢然後但是剩下的都還有平均有1200到1500萬三年的平均執行率只有45%"},{"start":4267.583,"end":4271.764,"text":"45%所以事實上就是說根本沒有必要編列這麼高的設施及機械設備養護費那當然就是這幾天法務部有來跟本辦公室說明就發現說你們竟然拿這筆錢去支援法務部的房屋養護費用"},{"start":4290.814,"end":4311.429,"text":"也就是說你這裡編的是機器設備的養護費但是呢你其實你根本又花不了那麼多的錢就剩下的錢去做什麼呢就再去拿去做房屋的養護費那你明明就可以在房屋的養護費用裡面去編列我要修繕房屋那為什麼要拿東牆補西牆而且這個名目就不相當所以這是本席認為說你們這樣的編列的方式是不對的而且也沒有必要要編這麼多的費用所以我提案就是三減一千萬"},{"start":4322.776,"end":4340.747,"text":"好來請那個房屋部說明快速這邊說明喔那呃就是陳儒剛剛委員講的齁如果說以一四我們這兩個科目就是設施養護費跟房屋建築養護費這個兩個科目的執行數加起來看啊其實總共只剩下269萬齁"},{"start":4343.248,"end":4361.99,"text":"那為什麼我們房屋養護費會編的那麼低呢那主要是說行政院共同性費用編列基準表他有定一個辦公房設的修繕的編列基準所以我們以往都是照這個修繕編列基準去編可是實際執行的時候可能房屋的狀況"},{"start":4364.052,"end":4386.233,"text":"實際在修繕或是物價上等因素導致於說我執行數會大於那個編列基準因為它編列基準的金額就是編列比較低那這個部分的話我們也有跟總處那邊去討論那總處在116的時候他們已經在共同性費用編列基準表把這個房屋的修繕的編列基準把它拿掉了"},{"start":4386.713,"end":4404.458,"text":"所以我們的116開始我們的概算我們就會參考到我們以往房屋的執行數我們再去核實檢討編列那這個部分這兩個科目加起來真的是只有200多萬那有時候一些房屋的修繕有時候可能就是"},{"start":4404.898,"end":4425.285,"text":"突發就是一個漏水可能就要花個一兩百萬尤其近幾年那個修繕經費成本又比較高所以是不是我們也回來有做一個檢討那是不是拜託委員我們就是這個科目我們可以接受三減一百萬那可是委員可以允許我們要可以科目自行調整就是說"},{"start":4425.805,"end":4443.648,"text":"因為我未來115的房屋還是會有不夠那我這邊拙減100萬那允許讓我們科目自行調整那以後我們的設施養晦還可以去就是做一下房屋建築修繕可是116開始我們就會核實去檢討編列以上補充"},{"start":4444.409,"end":4470.805,"text":"好 我想講就是說剛剛會計局主任說的話基本上你也同意就是這是兩個完全不同的科目的編列嘛那麼但是你們現在等於說是拿A科目然後的費用剩下的費用去補這個B科目那麼如果這樣說起來的話就是行政院所編列的所就是行政院目前他們自己做的這個什麼共同性費用編列基準表這個基準表本身就是有問題"},{"start":4472.206,"end":4496.943,"text":"它没有依照实际的费用支出的状况来让机关来做编列你们没有办法在房屋养护费这里编的足额的费用去修缮就拿编机器或是维修设备费用去支应房屋修缮费用这其实是不对的坦白说你们这样的编法是违法的"},{"start":4498.229,"end":4513.29,"text":"好 請 請這個張委員好 那我覺得主席剛剛講的就是就是希望大家是對到那個科目嘛 對不對我覺得聽起來是蠻有道理不過我剛剛也聽到就是會計處主任也有講到這是行政院的一個公佈的一個基準辦法啦齁那基本上我想問一下它是"},{"start":4514.211,"end":4530.133,"text":"所有的包含立法院各部會大家都是用這個基準再去編相關的預算嘛大家都用同樣的基準那在116年都會做修正是嗎對因為這是共同性的那當然基準表裡面它有定一個就是每平方公尺多少最低的修繕標準"},{"start":4530.794,"end":4554.258,"text":"可是你當年度如果說你有預期到有大修那當然可以核實編列可是有時候一些修上我們在編預算的時候我們沒有辦法預期說我哪個地方會做大修散所以我們一般我們都會先照這個共融性費用編列基準表的標準去編房屋建築養護會這樣所以看起來是一個通用性啦各部會都是這樣子"},{"start":4554.718,"end":4582.499,"text":"因為都是業務費底下的課目其實就是以往都會去做不足的部分會去稍微做調整資應以上好來 青森委員好 我這樣聽起來這樣是一個時間差的問題因為我們現在所審的預算事實上是在去年去年的年中以前就有在編列了那所以現在剛剛所講的這個編列基準現在已經修改了嘛"},{"start":4582.899,"end":4605.136,"text":"所以如果按照新的編列,新的修改之後的我們就可以不用受限我們就可以核實看需要多少房屋修正,就編多少房屋但是因為時間差,我們今天的預算今年的預算到現在5月才在審那審的已經是那時候上年度,去年度那個基準辦法還在的時候的預算那我覺得說這個"},{"start":4609.5,"end":4615.384,"text":"這個錯不在法務部啦這個過去規定就是這樣子那如果我們現在就單就這個機械設備維護的這個部分做刪除的話整個"},{"start":4621.737,"end":4648.074,"text":"設備費可能就就就他們的這個相關的房屋修正雲芝這些就會出問題了那我想這個是不是現在已經年年就我們很快就快要再審查到下半年度馬上就要審查明年度的預算那時候我們很快就可以看到他們這個修正之後的的按照按照核實編列的這個預算數那所以我我看是不是就就就我我個人是建議說我們可以可以拙減因為他們過去也不是"},{"start":4648.632,"end":4671.411,"text":"也都有剩餘 按照過去的執行率 我們來做一些簡略 我是同意的 以上好 我要講一下就是說 事實上這個如果不是本席在這次把你們的問題找出來你們過去這麼多年都是這樣編列我想法務部你們自己作為法治單位不會不清楚說這個科目這樣的做法是不對的"},{"start":4672.719,"end":4701.825,"text":"所以为什么现在我们发现很多机关都是希望就是说是我们的预算经费都是可以让业务单位科目自行调整就代表你们在编的经费的时候没有符合那个零基预算的精神嘛你们要用什么然后你又就是要编什么结果你们可能是怕其他的部分可能会删减所以呢就是拿别的项目的预算然后编的很高很高的钱然后实际上执行率很低然后之后是剩下这些钱就去云支到其他的科目这是不对的做法"},{"start":4703.311,"end":4721.481,"text":"對那現在本席發現的這個問題當然我也知道說其實房屋的養護也是很重要可是我如果不這麼做的話行政院不會去修改這個共同性費用編列基準表我想這也不是法務部你們自己一個人可以決定的嘛這個共同性費用編列基準表是誰負責要去做修正的是主計總處嗎"},{"start":4727.179,"end":4750.835,"text":"對 那他們今年116已經有做修正了那做了修正之後呢對 我們就要照那個修正所以你們116年的那個主計的你們現在116年的房屋養護費用然後之後就可以編在116年是不是對好 那如果是這樣的話事實上我想就是房屋修上也是可以等到明年再來做了不見得說今年一定要全部都要做你們今年編多少錢就編多少錢主席不好意思"},{"start":4751.335,"end":4764.367,"text":"我想就是房屋修繕可能事關到他們的安全性的問題 是不是可以請他們再多做聲明一下如果說是有事關安全性的話 你們可以用追加預算的方式或是動用第二預備金 對不起 動用第二預備金因為你們現在是編了兩百多萬嘛 是看到說你們現在眼前的發現一些問題 所以你們才編了這個房屋修繕費用"},{"start":4772.674,"end":4781.405,"text":"是不是八千我可以再確認一下嗎就是這個房屋修繕案有沒有影響因為我們有一個職安違法如果我們沒有修繕案會被違法這是不是也可以說明一下"},{"start":4784.844,"end":4809.516,"text":"因為整個房屋的維護它都有固定的一些定期的一些保養或是說公共安全的消防的檢查那個也必須要去做定期的檢查申報還有一些相關的機電、停車場修繕等等這些都是必須的而且房屋主要是說有時候它會漏水譬如說像我們二半最近就屋頂漏水"},{"start":4810.296,"end":4824.506,"text":"那那個就要一兩百萬可是你又你又如果我沒有錢我就漏水我就不能警局去做修繕這個其實就影響同仁的那個辦公的好謝謝主任你都說明了但是我們現在審查的是設施及機械設備養護費我們現在審查的是設施及機械設備養護費"},{"start":4829.93,"end":4851.848,"text":"不是房屋養護費如果你們認為房屋應該要做更這個要有更高的這個修繕費用的話你們當時應該是編列在那個修繕費用裡面而不是編列在這個科目所以呢我如果說我今天我這個同意這個就是這個要同意你們這個科目可以雲芝的話是本席違法"},{"start":4854.015,"end":4868.429,"text":"我認為說我們就是應該按照科目的方式來做而不是依照你們過去的這個這個不是違法因為我們礙於這個一個行政院的那個一個基準編列的一個基準表那委員的"},{"start":4870.171,"end":4898.501,"text":"指導那我想我們這個明年就會核實來編列那是因為這個是屬於因為這是15年的一個預算是不是說這部分可以讓我們有實際上的一個需要實際上的需要那委員那個指證的那一部分那明年我們就會用核實的來做一個這樣的一個就按照科目來做一個核實的一個編列那這個事實上有事實上的一個需要是不是這部分是不是可以我們就可以簡列"},{"start":4899.461,"end":4920.989,"text":"檢列100萬元那科目自行調整那這不是因為這是一個基準表修正以前所編列的一個情形我同意可以檢列100萬元但是科目不能自行調整好以上我想這個案子大概就先這樣子如果科目不能自行調整其實我等於我房屋就是沒有辦法我還是回到那個點我們現在在審查是什麼費用"},{"start":4923.098,"end":4949.728,"text":"機械設備維護費 設施養護費你們不要勤勒 我現在法務部很會勤勒你們當時你們自己法務部對於你們這些房屋的設備的這個修繕費用 你們該編多少就要該編多少該跟行政院主計總書去爭取 你們就要去爭取結果你們不爭取 你們反而用這種不好意思講 偷雞摸狗的方式然後你們把這費用是隱藏在這個設施級"},{"start":4951.85,"end":4978.13,"text":"機械設備養護費裡面這樣合理嗎這不合理啊你們每年都是剩下很多錢耶對 編了這個一千多萬然後呢實際上只花了幾百萬然後都是剩下的這個一千多萬然後全部都去挪去他用我怎麼知道說你們有沒有挪去做這個沒宣費或是其他部分使用所以我跟你說在這個案子上面我們就就是論事就項目來講"},{"start":4979.571,"end":5003.854,"text":"事實上就是審查設施及機器設備養護費考慮到說你們可能今年或許有更多的設施設備要維修要養護我同意這個費用就是解列一百萬但是呢不得留用主席抱歉啊我還是想要再表達一下因為剛剛其實大家都已經清楚的說明這是一個時間差嘛而且過去的基準就是用這種方式在做編列啦因為這也不是只有法務部"},{"start":5004.554,"end":5021.777,"text":"是所有部會各院都是用這樣子的一個基準辦法再去編列這樣子的預算那我覺得還是要考量到就是說因為他們在公務辦公其實有很多公務員我想所有的委員也都非常的在乎他們的一個安全性啦而且這也考量到就是說有公安的問題是不是就是在這個部分上面可以指"},{"start":5022.638,"end":5047.73,"text":"卓宇三建但是是可以讓他們自省的雲芝啦因為這是過去的歷史留下來的問題嘛現在要強求他們去解決我覺得這聽起來也是不合理啦而且在115年的決算我們就可以知道他有沒有拿去做剛剛主席所擔心的沒宣費用嘛我們其實都可以看得很清楚當時我們也可以到時候我們也可以再監督嘛那再來就是說116年新的辦法他們就會用新的辦法來去做這些編列了所以我還是希望"},{"start":5048.69,"end":5075.247,"text":"在這件事情上面是可以讓他們阻遇雲芝啦謝謝好 那個麻煩徐委員好 謝謝主席喔是我想 呃 昭緯這邊提這個案子最主要就是他發現了這個問題那提出這個問題而不是說他故意要去刪減什麼你們的這個這個房屋的修繕的部分那所以這個問題根本性就是應該是法務部之前就要先找行政院主席總書那邊去"},{"start":5076.307,"end":5103.342,"text":"去溝通這個問題要怎麼去算 拖到今天如果主席沒有提出來這一個部分的話是不是也是這樣過了所以我覺得今天 我想剛剛趙偉已經展現了他很大的一個誠意了 就是簡略100萬那但是呢 這個部分我覺得根本的問題我想不是在趙偉身上所以剛剛這種講法好像會讓人家覺得說這個翁小林委員好像針對房屋修繕的部分不顧大家的安全 我覺得這樣一個"},{"start":5104.182,"end":5128.079,"text":"有一些這個讓我覺得讓我們在三減預算的時候會有一點不可承受之重啦所以我覺得還是會要回歸到這個法治的本身啦 謝謝好 來 騎士委員好 我想這裡確實是我們這個召委指出的這個問題啦這個大家都看到就是說原來過去房屋修繕有很多部分是用機械設備的維護費用來運資那我想剛才這個討論其實大家也有"},{"start":5133.891,"end":5152.762,"text":"其實蠻接近了有一個最後的接近一個最後的公式了現在就是說到底刪減總數是一個是是第一個要討論的部分第二部分就是說他到底可不可以允職現在我們如果可不可以可不可以這這項目自行調整了你如果不讓項目自行調整這個刪除你等於你等於是把他的這個"},{"start":5153.823,"end":5177.633,"text":"它實際上的效果就是它的房屋維修費用整個今年可能現在馬上在他們在發生這個漏水啦在發生什麼這房屋他們就沒有經費可以維修了那你說用預備金那預備金預備金是編列預備金那個用來做房屋維修我想那個預備金可能到那將來如果出了更大需要預備金的部分可能"},{"start":5179.574,"end":5200.865,"text":"會遇到困難 那我是覺得大家已經有相當的共識了那很接近了 那是不是我建議就是保留我們在協商之前我們法務部把過去我們一年裡面我們這些維修費用到底用在哪裡我們這些費用列出來 我想列出來大家委員看了就知道說這裡面恐怕要遵截非常非常的困難"},{"start":5202.026,"end":5217.506,"text":"因為實際上都發生了就要維修的就是要維修你要消防安檢就要消防安檢你要什麼這些項目都是實際上必須的那我們如果說做了一個決定讓他們這些項目都沒辦法做那我想這個也不是我們本委員這不是說我們委員會的本意"},{"start":5219.028,"end":5240.368,"text":"我們就先保留 那在協商之前 法務部在這個部分我們把這些相關的這些房屋的修繕的這些這些必須開支真的是沒有辦法 三檢的部分再跟我們召委來溝通那我相信我們召委這看到我們召委不是 他不是要找你們麻煩他不是說要讓你們怎麼樣 就是事實上我們過去就是用這樣子的"},{"start":5241.609,"end":5268.64,"text":"科目調整的方式在做這是不好啦那我是希望說是我們是保留就把這個保留讓他們有時間再跟召委說明我想這個案子基本上我們已經討論一段時間了我要再次重申就是說是預算的編列你就是應該要按照每個科目的項目他的重點他這個未來支出的費用是多少只要去做核實的編列而不是"},{"start":5269.6,"end":5289.216,"text":"拿東牆補西牆我覺得這個方式是本席很不以為然的那麼基本上就是我們剛剛所提出來的不得留用的部分如果說法務部這邊還有意見的話那麼我們就整個案子就整個保留送協商好不好好保留送協商我要再重申了我如果說我今天我不"},{"start":5290.134,"end":5296.658,"text":"如果我不堅持這個案子的話我認為行政院主席總署絕對也不會去考慮到這個在實務上面長期以來已經留下來的這個很嚴重的問題這種這個漏息"},{"start":5308.871,"end":5332.918,"text":"那麼故意不去正視機關所提出的問題明明房屋的修繕就很重要明明知道說現在物價高漲200萬通常不太可能會做什麼事情為什麼主計總處主計長在做什麼不會考慮到就公家機關這些員工們的這個房屋宿舍的安全嗎還是做這種很不合理的這共同性質費用編列的基準表"},{"start":5335.413,"end":5343.436,"text":"縣法務部以及其他機關於不義我認為說這是很嚴重的問題那我們這個案子我們就保留送協商接下來的話我們就針對業務費提第四案到第六案來進行說明我們審查結果就第五六案就保留送協商"},{"start":5357.037,"end":5385.707,"text":"除以上個案外我們就是減列二十萬元這主要是第四案減列二十萬我們繼續處理第一幕的一般行政提案案號是第七案到第十二案剛才第五案是說先把郵輪投來啊對不起剛剛因為第五案是我們說之後回過頭來再來討論那我們所以就是法務部待會我們再來討論好不好那我們就還是那我們再重新再宣告一次我們"},{"start":5387.557,"end":5414.886,"text":"好那我們這幾案我們重新待會再來做決議好了我們就先再不就是之後再重新再做一次新的宣告那我們接下來就繼續處理一般行政的第七案到第二十二案好第七案的第七案是有關於這個特別費的問題特別費的問題因為我想我們在其他的機關裡面基本上就是保留送協商"},{"start":5416.107,"end":5422.753,"text":"還是法務部要說明嗎部長你要針對你的特別費還要再進行說明嗎你要再來爭取一下主席我表達一下我的意見這個部分我其實在質詢的時候也有那時候部長您是巡達就是您那時候是出席的因為台灣這個已經淪為詐騙王國這個稱號"},{"start":5441.288,"end":5442.709,"text":"所以基本上司法人力已經十分吃緊因為這些基層檢察官法院法官他都必須接受受理此類的申請案"},{"start":5465.525,"end":5473.932,"text":"那工作量非常的大然後這個就因為他們就想要讓車手利用這個應定緊急合併處理來減輕這個罪行當時你也覺得這個方向是可以討論的那這個所以部長你也再次承諾說要往這個合理的級距方面去做重新檢討所以好像這兩個月來也沒看到法務部有做一個具體的這個報告但是我們也同意說將這個改動成"},{"start":5490.866,"end":5505.717,"text":"10%就是有減少那希望你本來我們要你做專案報告這個非常重要啊打炸台灣是越打越炸啊所以三個月內交書面資料所以等下DCC案的時候我也是一樣的案件跟情況的事由跟想法啦所以這個部分"},{"start":5507.939,"end":5514.483,"text":"那個你們已經可以接受嘛就是你們要交出這個報告嘛我知道這個是跨部會要做的事情但是就我提出了針對性的這個部分你們也要做一個研討嘛看看怎麼做是可以不要讓他利用詐騙集團利用他們司法對他有利的部分然後來欺騙這個因為他們賺容易錢那這個年輕的車手因為佔三分之一嘛年輕的這個車手就會覺得說反正罪很輕我關出來他很年輕還很有可為啊"},{"start":5535.194,"end":5552.665,"text":"所以就一再再翻那個數字我都有給部長看啊我在質詢的時候都有給部長看啊我印象中你也是同意這個方向要去檢討但是我等了好幾個月都沒有結果吧好嗎 部長可以嗎好 我們現在就是改動10%然後你是不是寫三個月的繳交但是我希望你更快你更快就更快解凍啊好嗎 是不是這樣那我先表達去那個記者會"},{"start":5560.153,"end":5583.965,"text":"謝謝陳委員他剛針對第八案的也是針對特別費的部分先進行說明那本席在第七案裡面的我針對法務部長的特別費本席是提出要三減九成總共一百零六萬如果主要是看到就法務部這些這一兩年來時期上在很多的業務推動上面並沒有做得很好那麼事實上就法務部部長"},{"start":5585.425,"end":5610.53,"text":"這個在監督的部分有待加強那麼同時考慮到就是現在台灣的經費大幅支出所以所有的費用能夠能省則省不必要的費用就不需要去支出所以本席提出3.9成那剛剛這個部分的話就是基本上就保留送協商那第八案的部分因為已經溝通過了所以陳昭志委員的案子就改凍結10%然後並且要提書面報告好那麼接下來"},{"start":5614.994,"end":5629.706,"text":"第九案林倩琪委員的案子是有關一般事務費的那麼已經也都通過了就是改凍結三十萬然後提書面報告那第十第十案是我的案子那麼第十案是在針對"},{"start":5639.093,"end":5642.374,"text":"法務部所提出來的一般事務費,這個科目是就辦理法制及兩公約人權業務經費我們知道其實兩公約的國際審查會議先前才剛辦理完畢但是本身要講的就是因為我們這個預算案到今天才開始進行審查"},{"start":5660.2,"end":5666.164,"text":"那麼就算是法務部之前要去動用這筆經費也應該要遵截使用那麼看起來現在法務部是先斬後奏就已經把這筆經費全部花掉了那麼本期還要再講就是辦理兩公約的國際審查會基本上應該不是屬於法務部的業務在你們業務項目裡面並沒有所謂的要去處理這個兩公約的人權業務嚴格來說可能應該是屬於監察院的國家人權"},{"start":5686.716,"end":5708.323,"text":"國家人權委員會那裡去處理所以法務部為什麼要攬這件事情本席也感到很奇怪更何況就是說這個經費事實上你們編列了編列了將近1000多萬事實上看起來有些部分也是高編沒有必要要去做這個支出的所以本席在這裡就提案就是3-906萬請部長回應"},{"start":5714.524,"end":5731.083,"text":"跟委員報告我也知道就是說這個這個兩公約的這一部分這部分那個已經都已經執行完畢了那的確是監察院是有一個人權委員會但是監察院的人權委員會事實上是以巴黎原則來做一個"},{"start":5732.245,"end":5752.523,"text":"設立的一個獨立機關它事實上是一採監督政府的或者做一個對人權的做一個評估那甚至對侵害人權的事做有一些有調查的一個全能它事實上是採是一個監督的監督的所以如果說給人權會來辦是不是有一些的角色的衝突那另外法務部為什麼會承辦"},{"start":5753.908,"end":5769.384,"text":"因為法務部組織法裡面是有掌理人權保障業務的這個一個推動那會來承辦這個是行政面的一個指示那承辦兩公約這個已經是第四次的國家已經第四次的國家報告了那"},{"start":5770.405,"end":5797.384,"text":"的確是若委員那個有對這些對應該給人權是不是這個也是涉及到願計的一個協調的那這部分那法務部這部分也跟行政院做一個報告了做一個報告了就是是不是可以有一個表達委員的一個看法就以上的一個補充好請孫委員好主席各位同仁今天這一條預算其實"},{"start":5799.912,"end":5827.668,"text":"我覺得有剛剛這樣討論有一個一個是說是不是應該有法務部辦那這個我覺得我們就等一下我這請法務部說就這個不是第一次辦嗎這個第四次好像每次是每四年都要辦一次就是一個延續的事實上四年過去都是誰辦前三次是誰辦第三次是法務部第三次開始是法務部辦那第一次第二次是總統府那個好"},{"start":5830.1,"end":5842.686,"text":"法治司司長張介慶報告我簡單的再做一下說明那其實這一次是第四次的國家報告審查那一二次是總統府的人權諮詢委員會辦理的那在108年4月12號的時候因為他的設置條例修正把這個總統府提出這個報告的義務刪除掉"},{"start":5853.231,"end":5872.448,"text":"就建議由行政院來具名提出那因此行政院就接受這個這個提議以後在第三次就是開始由行政院具名提出以後第三次就是由法務部來辦理那指定法務部辦理那因為有組織法剛剛我們部長有講過就是因為我們掌理人權保障的業務跟推動聯繫協調這個"},{"start":5875.391,"end":5888.771,"text":"謝謝市長說明我想這是第一個我們要討論事實上也不是說這一次才真的有法務部辦在過去2019年開始就是有法務部來辦了這是第一點第二點就是說"},{"start":5890.189,"end":5917.288,"text":"這個比較關鍵的因為他已經用掉了這筆預算因為我們立法院沒有審查今年度的預算所以這個國際兩公約這個審查國際會議這個又四年該辦的時間我們如果不辦又已經不是國內的事務了這個就變成為什麼台灣今年不辦所以他們很無奈的在五月他們還是辦了那現在就是大家來討論就是說這個"},{"start":5919.13,"end":5932.261,"text":"在我看這個是過去延續每四年就一定要辦一次的所以現在的討論重點就是說它到底是不是新興計畫如果它是一個新興計畫那你們就不能預算沒有審查你們就不能夠動用這個來舉辦但如果是符合預算法第54條的認為它不是新興預算那你們就"},{"start":5942.67,"end":5967.184,"text":"所以我覺得現在討論的重點就是說他們已經辦了現在我們把它砍掉了預算把它砍掉了在我們預算還沒有審查的時候他們這樣子的通知到底到底是不是符合預算法第五四條如果我們認定它是非新興業務計畫的話那他們這樣辦其實就沒有錯我們也應該予以支持現在事後再去刪掉這麼大筆的預算讓他們不知道要從哪裡開始去雲枝去補回來了"},{"start":5972.536,"end":5989.604,"text":"那所以我覺得這個部分是應該是不是請這個我們法務部的會計單位來說明這個這一條我們公司的法律依據不好意思我順便再問一下你們在去年的時候在同一個科目裡面你們是憋了多少錢你們當時的預算數114年在同一個科目底下辦理法制及這個兩公約人權業務就是"},{"start":6001.75,"end":6027.981,"text":"04這個分支計畫不好意思我們先查一下那這邊委員我先做一個補充就是說因為兩公約的國家報告我們每四年定期那就是114的部分我們這個科目是編列295萬4千元"},{"start":6031.368,"end":6050.333,"text":"那我這邊要說明就是說養公約的國家報告我們是每四年定期提出一次國家報告那提出以後一年內會辦理國際審查會議那這一次是第四次的國家報告那這個國際審查會議其實是我們因為是屬於國際審查會議所以有一些跨國聯繫還有場地預定我們其實是114就開始規劃了那"},{"start":6060.635,"end":6087.666,"text":"到115正式開會所以其實就整個計畫來看其實我我們會認為說因為他已經第三次第四次辦前面已經辦過三次那我114就開始在規劃執行所以我們在看的角度是認為說這個應該是屬於延續性計畫不是說我115才新增第一年要辦那第二個部分就是說"},{"start":6088.226,"end":6105.024,"text":"也有委員質疑就是說那你要控制在上年度執行數上年度執行數應該是這個法治辦理法治兩公約人權業務這個執行數啊可是你這個已經大於上年度才200多萬那你900多萬已經大於了那這個部分"},{"start":6106.145,"end":6127.379,"text":"主義總署的解釋是它是以一般行政業務計畫是一般行政當控管去做控在一般行政向下的執行數去執行所以我們原則上也是控在這個一般行政向下的上年度執行數的範圍內去執行 以上補充好 我要講的就是說"},{"start":6128.94,"end":6138.024,"text":"這個的歸根結底都是在於行政院為什麼今天立法院會這個預算審查延宕不就是因為行政院沒有依法編列預算然後該附屬法律也不附屬該編列預算也不編列預算然後導致就是說現在整個預算案的審查那麼回到就是說剛剛這個會計主任您所說的我現在就是看了這個就是項目啊你這第四項辦理法治兩公約你說114年只編列了295萬"},{"start":6155.47,"end":6179.807,"text":"就算是依照預算法裡面的規定你可以去動吃的也就只有最多最多就295萬對不對你們那麼有把握我們這次的預算案會給你們全部都通過嗎所以本行很不以為就是你們怎麼可以先斬後奏更何況你整個兩公約的審查會議立法院根本不知道你們辦理這個會議一直到你們開會的前四天前五天我們可能才收到你們的邀請函"},{"start":6181.571,"end":6204.492,"text":"在整個辦理的業務方面第一個就組織權限來說這可能就不是你們法務部所做的就像剛剛說的第一次第二次都是總統府辦理總統府後來成立了國家人權委員會之後整個的業務的職權全部都移到監察院的國家人權委員會他們該辦理不辦然後全部都交由你們行政院都交由法務部來辦"},{"start":6206.673,"end":6218.768,"text":"這本來就是有全責不服的問題更何況今天的這個預算編列了一千多萬你們是辦理了七天嗎還是幾天的會議是五天嗎我記得是五天的會議嗎五天的會議就花掉一千萬這個費用沒有過高嗎"},{"start":6229.451,"end":6237.557,"text":"你就甚至邀請的什麼專家學者的這個飛機票的費用等等拉不拉加起來要花掉一千萬這都是人民的納稅錢啊重要的是說我們的預算案都沒有審過你們就已經先斬後奏就已經辦了你們太有信心認為說這筆預算是一定會過嗎"},{"start":6252.761,"end":6267.108,"text":"跟委員報告就是總的經費啊114跟115兩年加起來是大概1,020萬左右那主要比較大宗的是640萬是委託專業服務機構去辦理當天那個國際會議審查的一個會議的情況的一個委託專業服務那其實我們的"},{"start":6278.334,"end":6297.704,"text":"我們委託專業服務啊也經過流標兩次第三次採決標前面兩標都沒有人來投標所以我們其實的我們的經費因為很有限所以我們估的也比較合適所以到第三次才有廠商來投標那另外就是說它的那個"},{"start":6298.864,"end":6327.254,"text":"場地張榮發基金會我們也沒有委託專業服務去處理我們是直接我們保護部就是跟張榮發基金會去做議價因為這樣子可以省掉一些錢因為如果委託專業服務他又要給我們收管理費那還有均平酒店的住宿我們也是直接跟均平酒店去做議價所以我們其實因為我們的錢真的是比較緊一點所以我們也是想辦法說盡量把這個錢能夠尊潔去使用"},{"start":6328.834,"end":6340.358,"text":"謝謝主任說明 其實我知道法務部同仁很辛苦了辦了這樣的活動但是本席今天包含在之前的前一個預算案裡面談的有關於設施這個機械設備什麼養護費用基本上都是回到我的關鍵點就是說你們程序上面有沒有注意到這個問題這涉及到正當性嘛 你程序正當性你如果說我的預算都沒有省完然後你們就已經把錢都花掉了 這合理嗎"},{"start":6357.438,"end":6376.951,"text":"對於是有什麼緊急性這個必要性急迫性不然你們就動用第二預備金啊是如果說我們今天三點預算你們覺得有不夠你們到時候你們就可以使用第二預備金不是嗎就看符不符合使用第二預備金的要件對因為如果經費被減劣是不得動資預備金那我想這後果的話就你們要去承擔了來請好這個"},{"start":6387.21,"end":6396.468,"text":"我想這個大家都很清楚了這個預算因為我們預算去今年度的預算就是現在才在省所以說這些這些"},{"start":6398.749,"end":6417.604,"text":"你說預算沒有過就先去花這沒有辦法因為我們預算沒有過我們如果到年底都沒有省那今年還是有很多錢除了這一筆以外所有的錢都是預算沒有過都在花的所以我就預算沒有過就先花這是要看它符不符合預算法54條我剛剛講過就是說這個到底是不是心心計畫"},{"start":6419.005,"end":6440.522,"text":"那按照他們已經去年就已經有這些規劃費用的預算在他這個定期每四年要辦一次我個人認為說他是延續性的計劃他不算是新型計劃所以我認為說他們的動之應該在法律上面是站得住腳的啦這我的法律見解是這樣子那至於說是不是到底是不是他們辦第一過去一直都是他們辦那第二"},{"start":6442.07,"end":6456.423,"text":"這個人權業務是不是法務部的業務我想人權業務當然是法務部的業務我們有一個單位叫做法制司法制司我們下面設幾個課四個課四個課裡面叫什麼名字"},{"start":6458.052,"end":6486.631,"text":"人權科跟法治科不是四個科嗎人權一人權二法治一法治二所以人權業務其實佔你們法治師一半的業務對不對是沒有錯啊所以人權業務當然是法務部的一個業務他們下面一個光法治光人權他們就人權一科人權二科這個這個這個所以就就這個職權上面我認為說他們來辦也是沒有問題那當然現在比所以我想這個主席主席所所所這個聚焦的就是說"},{"start":6489.072,"end":6501.457,"text":"這個我們預算還沒有過那你們就花這麼多錢就辦了那我個人的法律見解是認為這個是沒有辦法因為我們預算沒有過它延續性計畫它就是可以用了那這個部分"},{"start":6502.984,"end":6524.624,"text":"我不知道主席堅不堅持,主席如果真的堅持,我想可能還是要保留宋協商但是我個人是認為說這樣這個協議是應該就是我們預算沒有過,他們必須要辦理,這個沒有辦法而且它是一個我個人認為符合法制的一個支出好,謝謝沈委員,其實我昨天我基本上也跟我回應詢問一下,現在在幾案?第幾個?第十案"},{"start":6531.567,"end":6546.192,"text":"我覺得其實我也有跟那個法務部這邊有先也有在溝通過這個議題了那麼但是本席認為說你們這次的花費還是過高所以我當時是提案說要還是要刪減費用我可以同意這次案子先讓他過但是呢還是要刪減費用不能講說你們今天花了這個一千多萬是將近一千萬我們就是全部全民買單"},{"start":6556.152,"end":6579.712,"text":"該合理的該給的還是要給所以呢本席這邊的話就是提議就是三減四百萬看你們接不接受不接受的話我們就保留送協商好那就保留送協商好那接下來第十一案第十一案是林沛翔委員的案子那這個案子的話"},{"start":6584.347,"end":6597.232,"text":"第十一案也是一樣兩公約的這個部分那就是一起保留送協商然後接下來第十二案是審發會委員的案子然後經過討論之後已經改成主決議了"},{"start":6602.424,"end":6626.398,"text":"改組決議並提書面報告我們就先宣告一般行政的部分一般行政提案案號是第七案到第十二案改為組決議的是第十二案保留送協商的是第七案、第十案、第十一案除了以上個案外本目合併"},{"start":6628.339,"end":6645.786,"text":"凍結是四十一萬八千元並針對各凍結提案的要求依審查會決議提出書面報告後 使得凍之那我們接著就處理第二幕法務行政提案案號是第十三案到第25案那麼第十三案是林沛翔委員的案子也是跟沒宣費有關"},{"start":6657.116,"end":6670.094,"text":"呃林委員這裡提的呃跟法務部這裡溝通結果是檢列兩百萬然後取消凍結好那第十四案是徐宇珍委員的案子要不要請徐委員"},{"start":6672.11,"end":6698.597,"text":"謝謝主席針對第四次案主要是有關的大陸地區的旅費那因為其實現在我想在兩岸的一個關係事實上我認為就是說兩岸共同打擊就是當然是重要的那但是本席是當時提案的時候是希望能夠了解就是說不管是透過兩岸合作追查犯罪遣返嫌犯取回贓款到底這個"},{"start":6699.577,"end":6725.045,"text":"必須也要對方的機關有實質的回應 雙方有明確的議題才能夠作這樣一個兩岸打擊的一個具體的一個工作那跟 當然之前有跟法務部溝通過 法務部表示說在實務上仍然有需要附入溝通的這些行程所以基於這個兩岸互助 司法互助涉及打詐 反毒 跨境犯罪等追查"},{"start":6725.885,"end":6726.865,"text":"好 那接下來第十五案"},{"start":6754.859,"end":6781.039,"text":"我中線委員的部分 需要再說明嗎謝謝主席有關第五十五案的部分我還是先謝謝法務部願意採納我對於離婚要件修法的意見而且法務部是有承諾說會再找司法院來討論這個修法那因為在離婚的事件中其實我非常重視未成年子女的權益那會不會未成年子女因為父母在離婚事件中受到不當的影響"},{"start":6781.92,"end":6803.687,"text":"但這個部分法務部草案他並沒有考慮到這個部分所以是不是請法務部在規劃親屬法草案的時候務必納入考量並且在立法理由裡面寫清楚那我還有一個問題是想要請教法務部修法這一塊什麼時候會去找司法院"},{"start":6809.077,"end":6831.852,"text":"再為各位先進 各位主席主席好 各位先進 大家好那謝謝委員的指教所以我們私裡有研議過根據委員所提出意見以及那天在審查法案的時候也有很多委員提出不同的意見那因為這個法案其實是一個蠻重要的法案對於社會民生影響很大"},{"start":6832.712,"end":6856.02,"text":"而且也是憲法法庭有宣告違憲必須要限時完成的法案為了立法的推進我想我們這邊也願意再去跟司法院來協談等這一波我們立法院的預算的事情處理完了之後因為我們現在還在處理一些重要法案我們現在大概有內部有形成一些基調我們會去跟司法院談那我們三個月一定會"},{"start":6856.8,"end":6857.12,"text":"那這個麻煩你們在"},{"start":6881.237,"end":6903.313,"text":"規劃的時候一定要考慮到未成年子女這個部分然後立法理由裡面一定要寫清楚好謝謝主席好謝謝那接下來第16案是本席所提的這個業務費用因為當時可能有物質所以我並沒有同意說是就是從原來3減1900外改成為3減20萬那我現在本席要提出來我當時之所以要3減"},{"start":6904.453,"end":6908.154,"text":"辦理檢查行政業務中的業務費為什麼要3.1900萬的原因因為那這次的這個法務部的預算115年的這筆費用呢其實他們這個增加的幅度高達63%比去年"},{"start":6920.818,"end":6940.354,"text":"多增加了63%然后增加了1864万其中教育训练费委办费国际组织会费物品费一般事务费国内旅费大陆地区旅费及国外旅费都有明显的增加那当然我还是有考虑到其中的必要性譬如说像是委办费因为这是要给这个律师的职前训练啊等等啊"},{"start":6941.716,"end":6948.061,"text":"還有像是大陸地區旅費還有教育訓練費用等等所以本席原來提出的是認為說其實應該要3.1900萬但是經過法務部跟我說明之後我認為其實有些費用還是必須要予以支持的像譬如說剛剛講的律師的訓練費用還有教育訓練費用等等但是像是一般事務費就增加的幅度太高"},{"start":6968.399,"end":6969.262,"text":"還有像國外旅費我認為說也是可以能省則省就是可以在"},{"start":6976.505,"end":7001.295,"text":"再減少 再減少所以本行原來提出是一千九百萬三減義務費一千九百萬那現在就是改三減就是一千萬那麼就是看法務部同不同意 不同意的話我們就保留請我這看不到的就是你十六案本來你是減列一千九那你現在改減列二十萬是不是"},{"start":7003.107,"end":7021.139,"text":"剪裂多少?一千萬因為剛剛的這個原來我剛剛說了那個改剪裂二十萬那是物質這我沒有同意改剪裂二十萬所以呢這個部分的話我就是你今天我想說我等一下要給你額漏你今天菩薩心腸而已啊你都變今天我是很就事論事"},{"start":7022.14,"end":7033.384,"text":"又變一千萬 那你們那個法務部說明一下就是說這個齁 那個對你們的衝擊或者說你們這筆預算的一個必要性在什麼地方沒有問題 我是說他要減二十萬 要到俄羅尼說二十萬整個零頭都不要給你們減了所以結果還要減一千 請說明好不好"},{"start":7040.838,"end":7057.857,"text":"主席 各位委員 防護部檢察司報告有關這筆費用其實教育訓練的部分跟去年來比較在去年刪減預算的狀況之下我們很多的教育訓練本來應該是三天的課程我們都把它縮減成兩天那導致有一些課程我們要去把它"},{"start":7058.497,"end":7079.447,"text":"做一些精簡但是這些其實對於我們的甲官還有我們同仁的教育訓練都是非常重要的那另外就是在國外旅費的部分那也因著去年的預算刪減的部分的原因所以我們有很多這個國外訪問學者我們都跟他們提到就是說如果要去參加國外的教育訓練的話有些經費我們是沒有預算來去補助的"},{"start":7080.768,"end":7103.343,"text":"那導致就是去年也有些因為這樣子的關係那有些檢察官同仁就不願意去參加這樣的一個國外的教育訓練那所以我們覺得說這個部分對於我們的影響其實還是非常的大那尤其是在那個律師職權訓練的部分那因為就是陳如剛主席所講的就是今年的那個律師是我們法務部辦理的最後一年的那個"},{"start":7108.747,"end":7131.625,"text":"這個之前訓練的最後一年那今年我們其實律師的這個報名之前的人數之前那個之前訓練人數大幅的這個增加那所以我們在今年的那個律師的這個教訓訓練之前訓練的這個費用上面就是編的有較去年更高一點主要原因也是因為因應明年要回歸全立會來辦理的原因那以上先做這樣的一個報告"},{"start":7132.645,"end":7148.318,"text":"謝謝檢察司長的這個說明本席現在提出的三減這一千萬就是我本來是三減一千九百萬因為我認為說不需要做大幅的增加那麼但是因為經過你們的說明之後我也非常同意我現在是同意我這個支持就是這次的律師的委辦費這個兩百六十八萬"},{"start":7151.44,"end":7155.004,"text":"但是我不同意這次的一般事務費增加了一千一百萬比去年多增加一千一百萬我不太懂得為什麼今年的一般事務費要大幅的增加那麼所以不要之後呢我不希望又網軍又再去做什麼這個污衊我的這個圖卡說我什麼不支持這個"},{"start":7172.122,"end":7195.502,"text":"律师的职前训练或是支持法务部的同仁的教育训练这些费用我是支持哦所以如果你们之后你们有减少开班数减少这个报名的人数跟我无关这是因为你们自己法务部把这个经费又去做其他的挪移我现在我提出了3减1000万是因为我不同意你们的一般事务费比你们今年多增加了60%多了1100"},{"start":7199.147,"end":7200.909,"text":"這就先保留了 這就先保留了"},{"start":7219.711,"end":7239.668,"text":"那么第十六案就先保留然后第十五案的部分我再重新做一个宣告就是刚刚吴中县委员这里讲了办理法律事务的业务原则上就是改成冻结办理法律事务业务五十万元并且要提书面报告"},{"start":7241.032,"end":7256.052,"text":"好 那接下來繼續就是第17案陳昭芝委員這裡請說明我再給我一個說明時間剛剛我提到第8案的事由其實基本上是相同我想防務部也已經收到這樣的訊息我的態度非常清楚我會持續追蹤防務部在刑刑法這個"},{"start":7257.934,"end":7280.974,"text":"因執行刑事法制度的檢討因為這類的詐欺犯本來就應該從源頭去杜絕來降低詐欺犯罪犯的數量而不是本末導致讓基層的司法人員人力來承擔那既然現在的刑事政策不足以嚇阻嚇阻詐欺罪那行政機關其實要回過頭來其實我們每個領域都這樣因為如果成效不彰"},{"start":7282.676,"end":7287.301,"text":"當然可能是很多跨部會的問題但是身為這個 現在到底出了什麼問題那辦公室收到的書面沒有寫明因為法務部會用這種積極檢討的方式那我們還是希望有具體的說明所以是不是請法務部主責研擬草案的單位就看今天可以說明 還是說"},{"start":7302.338,"end":7309.585,"text":"我在質詢之後就法務部有沒有召開有沒有想要召開還是根本沒有召開這個這個定音執行修法的專家會議我並沒有強調說一定要做什麼樣的修法但是說是不是要來檢討那我在質詢的時候很努力告訴大家這個定音執行法這個數量太多而且這個檢到很不合理"},{"start":7322.877,"end":7348.269,"text":"就是犯罪數十案 但是最後剩下一點點那這個東西就是會被利用嘛也危害了很多 三分之一大概是車手詐欺案裡面 這個少年犯裡面的詐欺案大概佔了這個三成以上 一計大概就幾千人三四千人就是少年詐欺犯那其中七成都是車手當然他們為什麼要吸引車手就告訴他 反正最後沒事啦 都清罪啦 沒有事情所以我今天是不是想說請法務部到底你有沒有召開會議檢討這個"},{"start":7351.411,"end":7379.418,"text":"那如果有是不是今天就讓我知道說你們有開始討論還是說未來你們要怎麼來處理這件事情所以我已經把這個我沒有刪除任何費用我是凍結喔那我原來就請你們做專報那現在我也接受書面的部分啦所以我想說是不是部長這邊您可以總是檢討一下嘛看有沒有助於這個詐欺詐欺就是沒成功大家都承認啦外民說是法務部專屬責任大家很多人都有責任"},{"start":7380.998,"end":7406.434,"text":"我那麼具體的意見請次長就簡單說明因為我們後面還有很多案子這邊跟這個陳委員報告就是說定義執行的部分那委員建議就是說它的樓地板要提高的部分事實上這部分我們在打炸專法在訂的當時其實法務部就是倡議它的定義執行的樓地板要提高只是當時因為各方的意見還沒有形成共識所以在打炸專法當時暫時把這個條文給擱置住了"},{"start":7408.956,"end":7435.199,"text":"那委員上次的質詢的時候 事實上部裡面檢察司早就在研議相關的條文 條文已經出來 他已經下午報告 我們已經內部已經演算過這個定義執行 樓地板應該要怎麼提高 但是他是一個內部的一個討論他條文也寫出來 因為在還沒有具體的形成共識之前 我們還不會把它這個還要預告啦所以這還要在進行相關的法制的作業當中 目前已經在進行了"},{"start":7435.319,"end":7462.198,"text":"你可不可以就是讓我知道說你們有在開會 開會日期 進度等等就是說我不要知道具體內容 但是你要知道你有在做 好好嗎就是這樣 好 謝謝 那我們第十十七案的話 我們的宣告就是改凍結法務部行政四百萬 並且提書面報告好 那接下來第十八案是吳宗憲委員的案子 之前也先經過了溝通的討論 那看看吳委員還要再補充"},{"start":7462.919,"end":7472.029,"text":"這個部分因為這個案子我個人是認為這有關一些人事的部分我想要在這邊一併的提"},{"start":7474.315,"end":7495.194,"text":"因為我先跟主席報告因為過往其實我在質詢的時候我一直提到兩個部分最近我一直提兩個部分但我覺得在場的黃謀信次長還有我們徐維祥的代理總長兩位都是我非常尊敬的人那我們關係也都很好但是我覺得制度歸制度"},{"start":7496.135,"end":7515.321,"text":"制度的存在是為了長治久安跟法律一樣長治久安才是重點這跟是誰去接任這個位置其實沒有關係那我其實我的問題上次在質詢的時候我並沒有得到那個馮次長他的他給我的答案就是我一直很想問法務部說到底我們徐錫祥代理"},{"start":7517.242,"end":7539.341,"text":"總長這個人選是法務部推薦報請行政院陳情總統指派還是總統自己決定的因為上次那個馮次長說他沒有辦法他不知道這個他沒有辦法給我答案那我想說請問法務部這個可不可以告訴我們一下部長這個是那個由法務部來"},{"start":7542.256,"end":7546.414,"text":"來推薦的就是給長官來做一個任命的"},{"start":7547.503,"end":7571.108,"text":"好 謝謝 那我們就是今天真相大白就是這個部分是由法務部來提出人選 由總統來指派好 那再來我的一個問題就是我必須要提出來的因為檢查總黨它不是一般的職務那為什麼我們之前會修法我們把它依法是設計是總統提名 立法院任命任期四年不得連任"},{"start":7572.808,"end":7596.047,"text":"所以2007年那個時候陳聰明總長是首位立法院任命同意的檢查總長那其實當年為什麼要做這樣的修法我想他一個重點就是他要補足檢查總長的民主正當性然後讓檢查權能夠獨立因為他這四年任期的任期保障可以讓他真的能夠敢於做事然後如果說今天"},{"start":7596.987,"end":7612.288,"text":"執政者不管你位置多大如果他違背國家的法律那假總長因為有任期的保障他更能夠勇於挺身而出去對抗違法的執政者那既然這個法律他是有這樣的設計所以"},{"start":7614.4,"end":7631.967,"text":"我還是認為是這樣如果今天部裡面的講法是說部長部裡面來建議總長的話那其實這會讓我一個感覺就是部裡面竟然連對立法院的基本尊重其實都沒有了畢竟這個"},{"start":7636.26,"end":7645.514,"text":"人選是立法院否決掉的嘛那立法院否決掉之後那法務部再提一個同一個人然後來請總統任命"},{"start":7646.755,"end":7666.352,"text":"那我不知道是法務部在幫總統扛責任還是怎麼樣但是其實這是很不可思議啦反正就是講簡單的就是看不起立法院嘛反正立法院你否決了那我就提名請總統指派然後來代理那這是我第一個我覺得部長剛剛給我的答案我的感覺是這樣"},{"start":7667.932,"end":7686.548,"text":"那再來法律既然它設計不是說代理是無限期那也不應該讓暫時代理變成是制度的常態如果這樣以後任何一個需要經由立法院來同意然後來任命的那我以後就由執政者"},{"start":7687.662,"end":7714.054,"text":"直接任命代理就好啦那這國家不就天下大亂了任何一個需要有民意基礎的位置我都指派代理就好如果這個變成常態國家大亂那我再回過頭來講今天在場的都是法律人我看在場超過一半都是法律人我今天講的這東西有沒有道理我想各位都是法律人心裡都知道我在講什麼制度跟法律絕對要長治久安尤其民主國家本來你執政者就換來換去"},{"start":7715.555,"end":7745.075,"text":"那我不能容許任何一個執政者就像跟我同黨我也不能容許跟我同黨的執政者在破壞國家的法治但我今天看到的是其實蠻無視於國家的法治甚至連權力分立的概念都破壞因為權力分立之下他要由立法院來同意那立法院否決之後你再由行政機關再來去認命再來去交給總統去認命其實完全破壞權力分立彼此制衡的這個最基本的憲政制度概念那我也不懂為什麼"},{"start":7745.915,"end":7770.689,"text":"法務部會這麼做 其實蠻不可思議的那好 那如果部長剛剛講這樣這一句話的話那請問部長 那這樣子請總統你建議總統的這個部分有沒有留下任何簽證或是任何公文記錄我想這個跟委員報告大概這一定是有一個徵詢嘛徵詢 那我們這次有一個"},{"start":7772.489,"end":7794.036,"text":"一個推薦一個推薦那我想這個就跟我們其他的一個推薦的一個過程應該是一樣的那當然這是這個提名的是總統的一個提名立法院的一個通過但是事實上能夠得到能夠一個有能夠擔任總長的我想是寥寥可數寥寥可數那我想"},{"start":7797.117,"end":7814.054,"text":"許代理總長當然是我們是認為他是一個非常好的人選但是以來徵詢的時候我們是認為他是很優秀所以我們就一個建議部長你沒有回答到我的問題那第一個我先再次說一次"},{"start":7814.975,"end":7831.357,"text":"我剛剛有特別講就是不管是我們講到的中選會人選的黃次長或是像我們徐代理總長兩位都是我非常尊敬的以前的長官也是我非常尊敬的人我從來沒有變過對兩位的尊敬但是我這個人"},{"start":7832.358,"end":7856.794,"text":"我這個人就比較死腦筋 我覺得法律跟制度我一定要把它維持住 國家才不會大亂如果今天是國民黨擔任總統 而做這樣子的東西我也會第一個跳出來說 不可以破壞國家制度以及憲政上面的五權分立概念那 部長 那請問一下 這個建議當初有沒有留下不好意思 委員 因為我們今天有很多案子所以我想說 這個東西當初有沒有留下任何自治建議好 這個東西當初有沒有留下任何自治建議"},{"start":7859.292,"end":7876.148,"text":"好吧 那可能是沒有啦 好 那沒有這樣我懂了好 那這樣齁 那我還是講齁 就是這個凍結的理由因為我剛剛是想釐清這兩個問題 我才知道後面怎麼說啦齁那我覺得是這樣啦 因為當時齁 你們有告訴我說這個是因為必須那個那個"},{"start":7877.209,"end":7903.574,"text":"非常上訴等等還是要有人做啦但是我還是一個想法就是說有沒有人做事這個是行政便利的問題那需不需要經過立法院同意這個是制度正當性的問題啦那還有第二個我就說談為什麼這次會凍結我還是一個主因啦主要原因啦就是最高檢察署的儲物規程第11條其實它條文內容寫得很清楚它是說檢察總長因事故不能執行職務時"},{"start":7905.094,"end":7925.711,"text":"他並不是說出缺的時候所以他還是要回到法院組織法66條總統要三個月內重提人選這樣才對啊那當然你們說以前那個有兩次的前例有用這樣指派代理但是過去如果做的方式違法你不能今天說因為有前例所以今天就變合法"},{"start":7926.391,"end":7940.989,"text":"所以我還是在講 所以我的底線很簡單就是我這次凍結的底線很簡單我希望你們研究當初立法院同意權的修法嚴格還有制度的價值 那還要包括所謂的慣例"},{"start":7942.17,"end":7961.287,"text":"當初發生的時候有沒有否定的意見意見是什麼我想麻煩你們把這個提出來給我因為你們今天說代理是過度的那過度就不能變成常態你們說要維持行政上面的運作但是也不能因為這樣就避免就迴避到總統依法"},{"start":7962.168,"end":7989.42,"text":"還有及時提名的責任我的想法是這樣那我也再跟法務部報告一次我再跟法務部說明一下就是我今天會用凍結請委員可能再快一點好不好我今天會用凍結就是我並沒有要找你們麻煩請你們把這個資料能夠給我就我的疑問能夠幫我解答一下好 謝謝好 謝謝委員 好不好意思因為我們今天有九十幾案現在才到十幾案那麼接下來是陳昭施辦案我們就先宣告就是說"},{"start":7991.621,"end":8006.335,"text":"18案的就是決議就是改凍結法務行政300萬然後並且要提書面報告好那接下來第19案和第25案都是陳昭志委員的案子是不是可以麻煩陳委員你就兩案一併說明好嗎好謝謝謝謝主席"},{"start":8008.517,"end":8016.786,"text":"這個第十九案就是說同樣是這個詐欺犯罪的案件那在我的提案當中有明確指出這個詐欺案件起訴人數暴增的情況下來作為這個預算天動節的一個基礎你看2025年就是去年地檢署針對詐欺案的起訴人數就有十萬多人"},{"start":8028.798,"end":8034.103,"text":"那一年生出來也不過這麼多人你剛剛被起訴的詐欺案件也十萬多人那其中當然大概四成 四萬人就是車手嘛 剛剛我就提到了所以達到國家具體成效是什麼那詐騙錢還是在光天化日之下透過洗錢手法來藏匿這個犯罪所得甚至洗白犯罪所得啦"},{"start":8048.357,"end":8051.219,"text":"所以就是公然挑戰公權力啦那這些防治寫成成效如何因為我也是沒有刪減啦我也是凍結457萬就請貴部做專報啦那同意以後我就解凍啦所以基本上"},{"start":8063.866,"end":8073.668,"text":"你不得不去面對這個詐欺犯罪的部分如果這個部分你沒有辦法接受可能我還是要重保留那有關這個毒品防治的部分昨天我總時訊也有提到這個毒品毒價以前我們只擔心酒價現在這個毒價不得了了2024年兩千多件2025年八千多件2025年第一季就破了三千件一定是破萬的嘛"},{"start":8088.232,"end":8093.396,"text":"之前我一直追這個獨家豬的很嚴重因為在前面這個食藥署要先做法務部就做先認為它是管制藥品然後再來毒品我也監督你們要去訂毒品的那個毒品審查會議以前是一年開三次次後來有事件一定要加開會議而且你們公告日期是以前從兩個月"},{"start":8111.488,"end":8133.607,"text":"現在我也變成說兩邊都改成14天公告日期你越減少一天就越加速一天來趕快處理這毒品因為一脫彌子當時派出所不收案一個高中學生的媽媽帶他去報案他就來跟我陳情他派出所不收案因為連管制藥品連毒品都不是他怎麼收案所以這個東西很多是可以做的這兩天大家都看到新聞"},{"start":8134.768,"end":8138.111,"text":"三天兩頭都有毒價而且不是撞傷人還撞死人包括這個警察都出了人命所以吸食為什麼新興毒品這麼容易很容易吸食以前注射以前要注射躲起來注射以前要鼻吸現在那個一脫米子它一點點量就很有作用又很容易融在那個煙油用電子煙去掩護"},{"start":8157.967,"end":8172.545,"text":"它很容易流又很容易吸收啊幾十秒鐘幾十秒鐘不到幾分鐘就有快感啊而且放在車上隨便一拿一小小的一個很精緻的東西一吸一下很方便現在變成所有的獨家案件一找到一搜全部都是依托彌子啊"},{"start":8173.306,"end":8177.368,"text":"那大家就覺得越來越嚴重啊小孩子在抽啊高中老師也都來陳情說學生都在抽這個電子菸依託品質所以基本上你這個部分花6億喔6億做補助毒品防治這個基金辦理這個等等等等防治啦教育啦成癮治療啦整合這個民間跟政府來協力一起來怎麼來處理這個戒癮模式那到底做了哪些但你們辦公室給我資料不夠清楚嘛你不可以說A4紙都寫不滿啊"},{"start":8203.158,"end":8220.572,"text":"那裡面還有我很多就是我的暗油啊就是說你們的書面這個有點空泛啦所以我事實上本來動了30又同意你們只減到10%嘛好像還比這個都還低啦所以我就沒有刪喔所以我想請你們總是要努力去面對獨駕獨駕"},{"start":8223.214,"end":8251.573,"text":"檢討制度及這個你們的政策作為嘛我就可以解凍嘛六億不是隨便的錢那六億我知道很多是毒品防治是跨部會我還是一樣說法但是我要告訴各位分局派出所也都在公告有列出毒品跟毒價再犯罪率再犯率那有關毒品犯罪的數據內政部也都一定有寫有所掌握那法務部當然一定也要做一些很具體的防治檢討跟防治毒價的政策作為是不是就清楚的你們好好想一想"},{"start":8252.373,"end":8280.974,"text":"在獨家這個這個氾濫整個社會我們青少年社會等等這個是非常嚴重是不是在書面報告裡再積極一點啦而不是說只有補助的角色所以基本上基本上我從凍結30%我也降到降到10%了是不是然後也我這個也變成說但是這個部分對那看看你們可不可以接受這個你們有什麼回覆就是說有關這個部分我這個要求目前是"},{"start":8285.383,"end":8307.77,"text":"19案 剛才還有25案嘛對19跟25嘛 因為剛剛主席希望我兩個一起來處理不然就請一起回覆好嗎19案先說那跟委員說明我是行政院洗塵防治辦公室的執行秘書羅委員那這邊報告關於第19案的部分這個457萬1千元的這個沒宣費用是有關於我國參與國際組織"},{"start":8310.632,"end":8326.507,"text":"這個亞太防治危險組織APG我們是正式的會員國所以因應這個參與國際組織我們必須要定期的接受國際上的相互評鑑而評鑑的這個其中一個重點項目就是說要推廣讓國內的不管是民眾或者是"},{"start":8326.887,"end":8352.029,"text":"其他的金融業非金融業的專業人員都必須要去了解這些國際上最新的洗錢房制的趨勢以及規範那這個會大大的影響到我國未來的洗錢房制評鑑那這邊跟委員說明說在稍早的提案當中已經沒宣費其實整體的刪減是450萬元這是已經刪減了所以那本案的話是不是"},{"start":8353.37,"end":8373.426,"text":"懇請建議委員說是不是可以凍結十萬元那另外如果委員需要更多的資料的話我們同意要改提書面報告給委員參佐以上這個部分你參加國際會議那你去了解別人怎麼來應對這些事情那這是交流啊會所有會議都交流啊我們要把我們失敗經驗也告訴別人嗎"},{"start":8375.663,"end":8384.63,"text":"對啦我說19萬我後來就減了嘛我後來就減到其實才457萬才凍結了10%那報告委員那我們是不是我們會後書面報告給委員這邊"},{"start":8392.101,"end":8415.085,"text":"我是希望你們做專報因為獨駕現在其實現在就是你們同不同的專案報告我想這個正點點在這邊好不好因為專案報告的話我也可以拍了我也可以拍案詐欺亡國現在又不要再獨駕亡國先詐欺亡國這個名義要先洗掉第十九案是這個詐欺犯罪的部分十九案是洗錢房制洗錢房制獨駕那二十五萬是獨駕的部分嘛那這兩件這個案子都要很努力啊"},{"start":8422.232,"end":8438.922,"text":"請問一下陳委員你25案陳委員你25案是要專報還是說是順滅報告嗎現在我是凍結要順滅報告不然你如果要降低這個百分比那我要專案報告你們要哪一樣因為我們想要了解獨家申請"},{"start":8441.15,"end":8459.872,"text":"好好好那抱歉讓我問個問題就是我覺得陳昭智委員關心的東西都非常非常重要也都是大家都在關心的事情但我想請教一個問題就是說因為當然專報招委一定是願意來支持啦只是我有點不太確定就是說我們現在排專報那到底什麼時間點因為我算了一下可能時間點要解凍已經到下半年了"},{"start":8460.453,"end":8470.867,"text":"那這樣下半年我們現在凍結這些數量你們還可以執行嗎會不會有業務上面的影響因為我現在擔心的是專報牌的時間啦到時候會不會來不及啦所以想說是不是可以說明一下"},{"start":8475.489,"end":8494.31,"text":"不好意思就是這邊再補充因為今年的情況可能就是我們要解凍會落到夏會期那就變成有凍結束的時候我們在辦理宣導經費的資用上面會比較不確定性所以我們在做相關的沒宣採購案可能我們就要預留一點"},{"start":8495.091,"end":8513.528,"text":"空間說這個後續如果沒解凍我可能就會有影響到我整個宣傳經費的那個執行的金額那第二個再補充就是前面的沒宣費因為已經減了450萬所以我這筆錢它也是沒宣費所以我們才建議說是不是可以把"},{"start":8514.388,"end":8539.458,"text":"凍結的金額因為10%他總共400多10%是40幾萬多當然覺得說金額不是很大可是就我們洗房辦整個辦宣導來講10%其實金額也還蠻大因為他簽錢已經又要被減一次所以才希望拜託是不是可以著降那如果說專報的部分我們本來也是希望改成書面那如果委員覺得一定要專報那沒關係我們就來專報對我們也可以"},{"start":8545.921,"end":8557.114,"text":"我們先處理第十九案 好不好十九案的話 陳委員這件事情是要凍結百分之十然後要提專報 現在就說看您是不是要堅持要專報還是說我們就凍結 然後改提書面報告"},{"start":8561.739,"end":8572.431,"text":"我有個建議就是說我們再次停書面但是我們還是排專報後續讓他們這個事務還可以持續的進行但是我們之後可以來排專報有沒有可能用這種方式來處理專報部長有可以嗎有專報可以嗎"},{"start":8577.807,"end":8600.843,"text":"我想就是大家剛剛討論就是說這個預算凍結因為我們這次的審查是時間已經在5月了然後再來要等專案報告完之後還死的凍之那個時間可能等到死的凍之的時候已經預算年度結束了所以這部分我希望說我們有沒有大家可以同意就是說我們讓他用書面報告"},{"start":8602.444,"end":8624.562,"text":"這是第一個啦那至於我們這個有關洗錢防治的相關的以及陳委員所關心的這些這個詐欺犯的這個宿醉併罰的這些這個問題我們一樣請召委可以另外排專案報告但跟預算解凍脫鉤啦跟預算解凍脫鉤這是我第一個建議第二就是說凍結的數字"},{"start":8627.285,"end":8651.886,"text":"這個我們陳委員所提的是凍結10%啦齁那剛才我們這個有法務部這邊有提出說是不是凍結10萬那這樣子的之間差距其實並不大啦齁40萬跟10萬那是不是說如果我們改成凍結個5%看看齁凍結個5%大概20幾萬這樣看陳委員能不能接受啦齁那我們就改成凍結5%書面報告這樣的話我們這個就就就這個案子就可以趕快通過"},{"start":8653.546,"end":8671.554,"text":"我想今天只是讓你也從好多案都一直在強調說今年的預算案這個討論的時間很晚但是我因為這個是公開跟全國人民知道的就是因為行政院沒有依法編列預算單獨通過沒有依法編列大家才會這樣我們為什麼要搞成今年都要整年都在處理這個預算案呢"},{"start":8672.054,"end":8678.02,"text":"就是這麼辛苦啊 前提是這個 大家都避談好像怪罪在野黨 事實上不是 這個第五要先澄清的啦那這個凍結失敗 七十五萬跟十萬差很多這樣就是說 如果你們先提書面做報告但是我不想可以一個附帶就是說這個專報 張偉您願意排專報嗎"},{"start":8694.735,"end":8696.035,"text":"我們之後可以再安排時間來排專報啦我想法是說這一次如果說是委員的提案有些要專報的話我們也可以利用一天或是一個禮拜兩次會議的時間全部都來排專報這也是可以的啦"},{"start":8710.501,"end":8734.297,"text":"就是說是因為我想這個案子因為凍結數其實也很小然後是不是看陳委員是不是乾脆就還是以為是凍結10%然後如果然後改提書面報告然後但是您提的那個議題我們就再找時間我們來排專報好不好謝謝主席主席替你們解圍啊就是說你最後還要在適當的時間能夠補作一個專報好那就凍結就先提書面好那25案的對25案的部分很重要耶這個"},{"start":8742.267,"end":8756.759,"text":"那25案的部分是要刪減還是說是用凍結還是凍結數說我是凍結30%對30%是不是可以建立就是凍結10%那我們就書面報告那委員剛才有沒有講說那個獨家的那一部分我們會做更詳細的一個重點凍結30%我可以跟你們討論我可以討論這個數字可以改變齁但是這個不專報嗎另外是專報另外再排專報嘛那就脫鉤嘛"},{"start":8771.425,"end":8774.466,"text":"因為我前面其他的案子有些也是要求一定要經過專案報告的嘛"},{"start":8793.075,"end":8802.786,"text":"不是 主席我們剛剛講的是說對 我知道第19案的時候已經是改成書面了但現在就是說你第25案的部分就是陳委員這邊就說如果說您的這個凍結條件還要再討論的話是不是我們乾脆就保留送協商等到二輪的時候再來談因為您現在是凍結30%"},{"start":8813.816,"end":8830.32,"text":"凍結30%我可以討論 但是我們是要求有專報那當然剛剛前面議案是主席幫忙解圍嘛就說願意排專報可是你原來提案書是說書面報告那所以就是看看您現在的意思是說我是凍結30%我告訴你 我要跟你建議啦你的GIF"},{"start":8838.001,"end":8843.689,"text":"這種這麼久的在專報 你如果是我事業的 你來找我來專報 我不怕要跟你拼了你的吉所在創這個 這種一書一字的在專報 賣啦 書面就好啦不然你告訴你會沒人啦 要告訴我主席在里長館會不會沒人來"},{"start":8856.053,"end":8875.825,"text":"考慮看看啦 因為確實啦 要督促監督都很合理啦問書面報告 書面報告其實他也不敢亂寫啊就很實際的東西 因為你這不是大鵝那部長您是說 現在是說我凍結的部分你維持 如果維持這個書面報告 那你這個凍結就凍結30%嘛是不是可以建議10%你兩行都沒有"},{"start":8884.256,"end":8912.415,"text":"這些因為只是凍結的比例因為我們今天花了蠻多時間然後想說中間休息一下好啦 百分之十但是我們針對獨家的問題這個我們另外排專委員主席可不可以給我一分鐘就好委員主席跟委員主席報告一下我們毒防基金主要是華為部 衛福部 教育部 內政部向下補助各機關地方政府民間團體還有醫療院所 學校辦理毒品房市的相關計畫那7月份的時候我們就要把下半年的"},{"start":8915.117,"end":8940.135,"text":"經費撥下去了所以7月份的時候我們撥下去的經費就達到毒品防治基金預算的將近89% 將近90%所以如果7月份沒有辦法解凍或者預算出問題的話我們向下那個補助給學校 醫療團體 縣市政府的經費都撥不下去所以這個部分可不可以讓我們提書面報告就好了那這個可以再強化一下嗎"},{"start":8942.394,"end":8961.002,"text":"我建議的就是說那個獨駕的部分來做預算跟專報託勾我是覺得合理啦你說獨駕的撥文確實政府也或者說立法院這邊搞不好也有人會提案啦針對獨駕這個問題來請法務來做專報是合理的預算我們給它託勾啦預算我們這撥文給你倒幾期啦你說希望獨駕要怎麼防護網來建立的話這個我們都可以支持啦"},{"start":8970.694,"end":8994.514,"text":"好那我也補充一下因為其實我也有來爭我一直都在爭取啦就是校園的這個毒品宣導的部分要與時俱進啦所以因為這個剛剛聽到這個說明就是說這可能會影響到校園的一些教育宣導好那我覺得這個真知識體大啦因為校園真的是現在流傳剛剛陳委員也有在講啦所以我們是不是可以支持一下法務部啦因為這真的會實質的影響到學校的開學就要做宣傳了"},{"start":8996.843,"end":9012.349,"text":"簡單講你剛剛說10%差不多是上限了凍結10%是上限因為其他都撥下去了嘛7月要撥下去這都是補助不是他們在花的是補助到地方政府跟各校園在做這個防毒的宣導甚至還有補助一些民間團體現在就是好過不好啊就越來越嚴重啊這樣好了我有一個建議是不是陳委員我們這邊呢基本上就是凍結10%然後書面報告經同意後使的凍資好嗎"},{"start":9026.733,"end":9041.052,"text":"請他們提書面報告但是經過書面統一後這個任務退讓很多15%好嗎書面報告15%好書面報告那就不需要經統一嘛就是15年跟委員拜託一下因為我們七月份真的要"},{"start":9041.693,"end":9062.743,"text":"如果說這個案子沒有辦法討論結尾我們就保留送協商啦好就保留送協商好了因為看起來還有很多的意見要討論本來是行政立法要各自承擔啦因為為什麼會延遲省總預算因為我們這樣的話我們沒辦法是跟那個因為我們沒辦法駁補下去的話沒辦法跟民間團體怎麼做一個諮詢那這樣子好10%那書面報告要很具體所以我們答應這個我們會寫得很詳細我們會書面報告經同意後嘛 值得動之好不好就是經過這個陳委員這邊看過"},{"start":9069.446,"end":9080.237,"text":"我的個性跟我的這個就是追查是非常嚴謹的你這個是什麼 我剛才聽到是說他七月已經要拔下去嘛對不對 他都10%這樣啦 我跟你講啦 很簡單啦沒有 你就做一個決議啦這條你做宣導大使啦 好不好"},{"start":9089.165,"end":9109.195,"text":"妳就覺得不夠好 又不夠妳情緒在做什麼妳覺得妳筆法要不夠好我負責監督好嗎 我的立法院職權刑事法我是負責監督 他們要負責做妳又給一個功能這樣不夠好我們有提案 好 那這樣好了如果說這案子沒辦法討論我們是不是乾脆就保留宋協商到二輪好不好10%可以10%可以 陳昭基委員已經改了已經改了10%那基本上就是提書面報告 是嗎"},{"start":9117.499,"end":9132.956,"text":"對陳委員我再跟你確認好那最後你那個專案報告合理啦合理啦那就另外再排專案報告嘛對另外再排但是這一案是提書面報告就可以解凍喔"},{"start":9135.518,"end":9138.78,"text":"所以本案基本上的宣告就是凍結10%並且提書面報告"},{"start":9158.854,"end":9177.701,"text":"那請大家稍等一下我們再針對整目來進行一個宣告那第二幕法務行政提案案號第13案到第25案第10改為主決議的案號有第14案23案那個保留送協商的有第16案和第25案"},{"start":9179.625,"end":9188.911,"text":"喔 對不起 對不起 第十六案保留送協商有第十六案那麼本目合併簡列是270萬"},{"start":9192.348,"end":9202.512,"text":"並且針對各簡列提案之要求依審查會決議處理那我們凍結的是7686萬8千元7686萬8千元然後其中含辦理法律事務業務凍結50萬元"},{"start":9213.96,"end":9231.241,"text":"並且針對各凍結提案的要求依照審查會的決議提出書面報告後使得凍之好那我們中間我們先休息五分鐘好吧然後大家可以上洗手間然後我們再回過頭來再來進行下面的第三幕的討論"},{"start":9234.672,"end":9256.837,"text":"都是師傅挑軟的吃不會啊,我覺得你很有效耶你說話大家都會怕耶你說話大家都會怕耶沒有啦,因為師傅挑軟的吃只要他弄一條,他就不怕了連抖都不抖,人家來看人家怎麼敲他們這些本部有沒有武器的這裡都有飯,他就來一個人一碗一碗都不敢抖是啊,那你說話都不敢抖人家都不敢抖"},{"start":9259.138,"end":9280.112,"text":"她要是不聽話的,她賣狗也好嗎?我們這生都不安靜的,你知道嗎?不能,賀福寶也不會帶小孩來因為你知道,人家在家裡,他們都應該在那邊曬奶我怎麼叫賀福寶,要跟人家奮鬥一下啦對啊,我們只有提主決議很多,提主決議的話就不會送"},{"start":9283.82,"end":9296.611,"text":"我們看到他們這麼無敵,我們看到他們失落無阻,就是我們應該的反對黨的地位做起來比較威風,真的我們是默默的要看結果,沒有辦法走威風威風這個時間點"},{"start":9303.462,"end":9317.291,"text":"我們就盡量給你負責做了專報啦來跟他預算投稿啦我們人都很好啊都主持人你要把我們的事要認真做我們都要沒有威風啊上次那個兩國那個拍拍誰"},{"start":9756.869,"end":9762.679,"text":"好我們現在繼續開會接下來就處理第三目一般建築及設備提案案號是第26案到27案"},{"start":9765.307,"end":9784.09,"text":"那麼這兩案因為都已經有溝通過了所以看看徐議政委員還要不要在兩案一起講好嗎謝謝主席本市所提出的這個案號第26案主要是針對115年度的法務部的個人電腦跟周邊設備新增汰換計劃"},{"start":9785.111,"end":9790.076,"text":"它的總經費因為它是4年的計畫高達6億7872萬那114年已經編列了8722萬115年就是也續編9208萬那針對這個部分的話本席是希望了解說是不是有這個需要就這樣的汰換"},{"start":9805.089,"end":9822.817,"text":"那後來法務部有跟我溝通過有確認過相關的電腦設備因為是涉及全國的各單位所以必須有汰換的需要而且因為近期個人電腦的價格漲價的關係那所以實際上可以採購的數量恐怕還得減少所以我就同意"},{"start":9823.677,"end":9836.087,"text":"這個案子改組決議那三個月內向我們那個法治委員會提出書面報告說明這個相關的這個設備的處理情形那第二期案是針對速發部的這個這個計畫是針對速發部智慧政治數位化經濟發展計畫的一個子計畫"},{"start":9843.513,"end":9851.115,"text":"那因為本席這個案子提出主要是因為法務部在110年到114年已經辦理了法務服務智慧轉型計劃那總經費也達到37636萬元那115年度又以法務數位服務智慧創新計劃"},{"start":9861.258,"end":9882.612,"text":"因為看起來兩個的計劃一個已經辦理完了接下來還有結束的計劃看起來是很類似是不是會一樣的會不會有浪費工廠之嫌當然法務部也來跟我說明這次是因為要導入AI相關的技術所以說跟本席的同意要凍結500萬請法務部在三個月內向我們法制委員會提出報告"},{"start":9888.095,"end":9901.751,"text":"書面報告之後呢那也說明這個前期的一個成果還有本計劃的具體內容還有經費分工資料的介接範圍那AI的治理跟資安風險的管控的機制後期的動之謝謝"},{"start":9904.542,"end":9927.424,"text":"那這個部分的話應該法務部就不能再回應了就是麻煩按照徐宇政委員的提議來辦理好那26案27案這兩案我們就26案的決議是改成主決議好原來的提案就改成主決議然後並且要提書面報告27案的話是取消檢列然後改凍結500萬然後並且要提書面報告"},{"start":9930.146,"end":9942.961,"text":"好那麼我們現在針對第三目一般建築及設備二十六案第二十七案然後進行審查結果的宣告就第二十六案改為主決議那麼本目合併凍結五百萬"},{"start":9950.474,"end":9963.647,"text":"對就是27案是就凍結500萬然後那針對各凍結提案的要求依審查會的決議要提出書面報告後時的凍值那接下來我們就處理第5幕的司法科技業務提案案號是第28案那麼請吳宗憲委員說明"},{"start":9968.514,"end":9994.354,"text":"第二十八案的部分我現在就是先講一下我洞前的立場我不是反對運用人工智慧只是我們看到之前的前面的經驗過去有關酒駕輸類的AI導入之後過去事半了四年前前後後燒了四千多萬但是實務上面就我們去了解實務上面其實幾乎沒有什麼人在用"},{"start":9995.114,"end":10008.678,"text":"所以他生成他他現在這個部分變你燒了非常多錢但是其實沒有效果那第二個就是我一直認為說人工智慧在目前他雖然可以取代很多事情但是現在第一線基層的"},{"start":10010.379,"end":10034.48,"text":"那些同仁他們最需要的就是一些事務行政上面的導入人工智慧像事務行政進行單發行公務電話記錄還有那個勘驗筆錄的逐字稿截圖分類 卷證整理 附件編排還有例行表單的這些填載我想這個才是要導入那個人工智慧那目前我看到法務部的做法他是把"},{"start":10035.492,"end":10051.747,"text":"人工智慧它要導入去製作書類不起訴處分書的書類我覺得這個會有很嚴重的影響因為不起訴處分書的瀏覽它涉及的是證據的取捨法律評價事實還有法律之間的連結檢察官的價值判斷"},{"start":10052.688,"end":10075.818,"text":"那如果你今天告訴民眾是說我的一份不起訴署份書這個不是我檢察官決定的而是人工智慧決定之後我再去複合看看有沒有意見那這個部分它對於人民對於司法的信任度我認為會有影響啦因為這不是小事情這是司法信任度的問題所以當你把人工智慧你導去是書類的製作"},{"start":10078.25,"end":10099.14,"text":"結果你連最沒有價值判斷的酒駕的書類都都弄到現在沒有什麼人在用那你現在又要再導入不起訴處分因為不起訴處分他是很嚴重的一件事嘛他有確定力的問題那另外就是他也有告訴人他會覺得自己權益受損所以這個東西如果再告訴他說這個是有"},{"start":10100.721,"end":10114.167,"text":"人工智慧判讀出來 而不是有檢察官自己的意志去做最原始的判斷這部分我認為會有問題啦所以今天我要提出這個所以我還是一樣啦 我的立場很簡單用"},{"start":10115.928,"end":10138.163,"text":"人工智慧去做客觀資料的整理我支持第二個優先用在書務行政的那些減輕我也支持但是如果要碰到書類的理由欄不起訴檢查核心這個我保留而且我是高度的懷疑啦所以我要求法務部給我們的數據不是拿那個產制率正確率"},{"start":10139.544,"end":10166.698,"text":"不是拿這個出來因為我要的是使用數據使用率你一直跟我說這個東西很好結果後來我一去問沒有檢察官想要用那就不對了那目前我希望得到的是使用的數據可使用人數實際使用人數還有活躍的使用人數那使用率持續使用率未採用率還有未採用的原因我希望得到的是這個部分那我還是一樣我的主張是"},{"start":10167.879,"end":10187.684,"text":"我還是完全支持用人工智慧來取代很多事情啦但是如果你今天取代的部分是沒有意義的話那就沒有任何效果那之前那4000多萬其實你們當時還跟我講是有一個重點是詐欺付表的需求那當時我們也覺得有道理詐欺付表的需求用人工智慧去編排"},{"start":10188.524,"end":10217.233,"text":"但是因為現在被告也都有總歸戶的制度所以在警察那裡就會做好付表所以這個東西到檢方也幾乎沒有需要再重新製作付表的需求所以變成是當初這4000多萬主要的兩個方向目前都沒有任何實際的效果所以就是這部分我要凍結然後當然從現在開始到院會你們還是盡量資料給我那我們也會盡量去思考看可以怎麼樣協助 好 謝謝"},{"start":10217.993,"end":10242.67,"text":"好,謝謝吳委員的那個說明,那法務部這邊還要說明嗎?還是說就依照吳委員的這個建議,就是說你們要提詳細的報告,然後再看要不要再解凍好嗎?好,對,是提專案報告對,我以為這邊是要提專案報告嗎?要趕快給我,那在院會之前趕快都給我好,那所以這個案子就保留送協商啦,那原則上就是這樣"},{"start":10247.32,"end":10255.29,"text":"主席是不是因為吳委員講完以後我聽起來也有道理但是我想聽聽機關的回覆好不好"},{"start":10255.984,"end":10276.361,"text":"好 那就麻煩主席 各位委員有關AI示範的計畫因為過去受限於一些硬體的效能所以它必須要等待一些產製的時間就是我們運用上面由於我們的同仁對於效能確實在運用上面他們覺得效果不好"},{"start":10276.741,"end":10298.173,"text":"所以它的使用率較低那因為在114年到115年我們的計劃有做一些調整那也預計在今年度會預置那個建制算力然後實質有效導入AI我們希望說透過這個算力的導入之後能夠提升它的一個效能那為了要提升這個系統的使用率我們也在今年度也辦了各場的那個教育訓練"},{"start":10299.554,"end":10302.357,"text":"讓同仁都能夠熟悉這個系統的使用有關吳委員這邊提到有關基層同仁的減輕負擔的部分我們在基層同仁的部分有導入語音的辨識系統"},{"start":10315.771,"end":10331.666,"text":"也就是製作會議記錄還有那個正常筆錄能夠使用那個語音輸入法的部分來做一個辨識 建制 系統的建制那另外還有我們對書記官的部分有做那個定音執行就是執行科書記官他們在定音執行的時候其實是花費蠻大的功夫的"},{"start":10332.026,"end":10348.128,"text":"所以我們這部分有藉階司法院的裁判書資料希望將來能夠協助我們的書記官就應申請定義執行期的這個一覽表能夠利用AI去產製那另外我們還有就這個裁判書的統計資料的擷取也希望運用那個AI的部分"},{"start":10348.648,"end":10351.251,"text":"能夠來做就是相關的指定輸入之後然後能夠透過系統的運用能夠直接產製一些報表那剛才吳委員提到就是有關檢查書類核心的部分那當然這個檢查書類這個判斷最終判斷還是由檢察官來做最後的一個"},{"start":10366.244,"end":10371.912,"text":"判斷的結果但是我們運用AI只是在於說運用AI來整理相關的證證資料比方說我們的公訴甲官他就那個證證的標籤可以運用AI來協助製作這個標籤那對於這個甲官的判斷的"},{"start":10384.027,"end":10399.543,"text":"證據資料那透過AI來整理分析比方說告訴人跟被告他們分別的真點是什麼我們透過AI來整理之後最後還是由檢察官來做最終的判斷其實不會有這個委員擔心就是說這個檢查核心是不是通通都是由AI來產製的這個部分那以上先做這樣的補充說明"},{"start":10402.285,"end":10423.311,"text":"這個主要部分是不起訴處分書用AI來製作這越是你們當初的講法那當初最早你之前四年花了四千五百萬是用在那個酒駕還有這些假期付表但這兩個東西後來都沒有任何意義等於這四千五百萬其實是浪費掉"},{"start":10424.031,"end":10451.357,"text":"那再來還有一個很核心的問題我問了一些律師公會的律師我問他說你們的當事人有沒有辦法接受不起訴處分然後是由那個AI去做初步的製作之後再由檢察官附和他們說民眾不會接受因為他們覺得我的案子這跟我一輩子有關我一輩子才這一件射送案件就去竟然不是檢察官親自認定他說這個第一個人民就會有打個大問號所以我才會說我是用凍結的方式我不是刪除我還是很支持"},{"start":10451.937,"end":10475.745,"text":"那個AI的導入 但是你們在運用上面就是我可能提出那幾個問題 這樣麻煩你們注意那當然我這裡只要你們今天給我一個溝通後的答案我都會很樂意的跟大家一起合作把問題解決 好不好好我想就是衛原的提醒就是麻煩檢察司這邊再提一份詳細順便報告那所以這個案子的話原則上也是就保留送協商嘛因為還沒有辦法看到檢察司的這個報告"},{"start":10477.423,"end":10480.831,"text":"好就先保留好那麼所以我們先針對第20"},{"start":10482.844,"end":10507.231,"text":"第二十八案的這個案子我們就這一部的宣告就是保留第二十八案就保留送協商好那麼另外呢我們重新再做一個宣告就是因為先前處理的第十九案第二十五案就陳昭志委員的案子經過與陳昭志委員和法務部有達成共識那解凍條件就是書面報告軍經同意後始的動之所以我在這裡另外再重新宣告"},{"start":10509.287,"end":10526.626,"text":"那回頭我們現在來宣告剛剛的這個之前的暫時保留的第五案那麼第五案就是有關於一般事務費的部分法務部這裡有沒有同意本席這邊所提出來的要從原來3.37百萬改成3.27百萬"},{"start":10533.387,"end":10560.099,"text":"這邊說明因為其中涉及到那個第十案跟第十六案的部分目前還是保留那第一案的部分剛剛有公司是減了一百五十萬那建議是不是這個案子還是一併保留以上補充好OK那這樣的話就第五案跟我們就重新宣告業務費的提案號第四案到第十六案然後第四案到第六案"},{"start":10561.38,"end":10586.077,"text":"那第五案是保留送鞋商第五案第六案都是保留送鞋商然後檢列二十萬那麼然後針對各檢列提案的要求依審查會決議處理好那繼續我們就在處理主決議的部分你先看"},{"start":10596.565,"end":10618.782,"text":"我們現在就是處理主決議那請問莊銳雄委員因為您這裡提了從29案一直到34案都是您提的案子有沒有需要再說明的或者是說我們就同意就是改成主決議就同意您提出的主決議的案子看機關有沒有要說明"},{"start":10622.513,"end":10646.118,"text":"那29案的主決議法務部有沒有意見 沒有意見我們這樣一併就29案到34案莊瑞雄委員提的主決議的案子有沒有要提出補充說明的 或是都同意同意那接下來是35案是張雅琳委員所提出來的主決議的案子那法務部有沒有要說明"},{"start":10648.046,"end":10651.86,"text":"好也同意那審發會委員提的主決議的案子36案"},{"start":10654.107,"end":10676.458,"text":"好同意那麼接下來37案到第42案都是范雲委員所提出來主決議看范雲委員要不要先做個補充說明我快速的補充一下我37案跟38案要先謝謝法務部有提出刑法就是80條的修正草案那就是關於未成年性侵的追訴權時效會延長到成年起算"},{"start":10679.659,"end":10693.915,"text":"那我這兩個都是一個配套一個是關於民法的另外一個是關於犯罪被害人權益保障法那如何讓性侵被害人能夠有更完整的權益保障那這部分希望法務部研議那他們已經同意了"},{"start":10695.116,"end":10717.096,"text":"那39案是關於那個轉型正義因為法務部從2022年就開始很多評估會議關於加害者的釐清跟究責的相關立法可是都沒有進一步的結果那很多受難者跟他們的家屬年事已高我是希望法務部能夠加快速度那可以給我一個比較明確的時程表這是39案"},{"start":10718.257,"end":10739.082,"text":"那40案是關於軍公教的那個職業年金那陸續已經納入離婚財產的請求分配範圍可是其他類型的職業年金一直沒跟上那法務部跟權敘部兩者主要就是他們在修法意見上分歧那我是希望法務部這邊可以務實的提出自己的意見"},{"start":10739.822,"end":10752.975,"text":"不要讓不同職業的人有些人離婚的時候財產分配可以請求這一塊有些職業就不行造成一個不公平的狀況那他們也已經溝通好同意那好大概就是這樣謝謝"},{"start":10755.367,"end":10774.268,"text":"好 謝謝范委員的說明那因為第40案有做文字修正要提書面報文字修正所以這個部分的話法務部可以同意嗎好 同意好 那這樣的話那我們接下來就再繼續處理43案跟43案到47案都是張雅琳委員的提案"},{"start":10774.728,"end":10793.619,"text":"好 那我簡單說明那43案跟吳宗憲委員關心一致我就不重複說明了那44案的話最主要就是說我們的犯罪被害補償金的目的就是希望讓被害人或家屬遭遇重大傷害的時候可以給他必要的支持可是我們在新制上路之後我們的補償金審議的時間反而變長了從過去的294天變成322天我認為這個審議的流程應該要好好的檢討所以是希望說"},{"start":10802.664,"end":10823.454,"text":"可以來提出這個三個月內提出檢討報告那第45案呢也是因為這個法務部要好好處理監所超收的問題現在目前全國矯正收容的人數已經超過了2000人那這其實會影響到整個基本的生活儲育品質也會增加第一線借戶人員的壓力"},{"start":10824.734,"end":10845.852,"text":"所以是希望说可以提出短中期可以做的疏解方式包含可能一间条被替代处狱等等看哪些可以来降低我们的监锁的压力那第46案其实也就是加害者识别及处置那理由跟犯人委员一致所以我这边也不赘述那第47案呢就是针对于义福社会劳动旅行完成率下降的问题"},{"start":10846.773,"end":10869.948,"text":"好那基本上就是說我們希望可以避免短期入監造成家庭工作中斷也或者是說我們也希望他可以透過公益服務回饋社會但是現在是案量增加可是旅行完成率卻下降那一直下降也不但是增加了行政成本也達不到社會復歸和檢索負擔的目的所以是希望提供檢討報告以上謝謝"},{"start":10872.756,"end":10888.91,"text":"好 謝謝 那麼訪問部有沒有意見 沒有吧 都同意那接下來我們就來針對主決議進行宣告 提案案號第29案到第47案的審查結果那麼照案通過的是第29案到第39案 還有41案到第47案"},{"start":10893.414,"end":10906.172,"text":"修正通過的是第40案第12款第一項訪問部的部分處理完畢我們就繼續處理第4項廉政署第二幕廉政業務提案案號第48案到第49案"},{"start":10908.749,"end":10934.392,"text":"好 那48案跟49案是吳宗憲委員跟徐宇貞委員的提案那看起來都也溝通過了那麼48案是改成為凍結30萬然後並且提書面報告第49案是改組決議並且提書面報告好 那麼這兩個案子法務部有要說明嗎"},{"start":10936.135,"end":10951.633,"text":"好應該沒有好那我們就這樣的話就是基本上我們的第二幕第四項廉政署第二幕廉政業務提案號48案到第49案的審查結果49案就改為主決議"},{"start":10953.436,"end":10972.114,"text":"那么那本幕合并以上除以上个案外本幕合并冻结三十万元那么并请针对各冻结提案的要求依审查会决议提出书面报告后使得动之那继续处理第五幕的司法科技业务"},{"start":10974.497,"end":10984.064,"text":"司法科技業務這裡是徐宇峥委員的提案那這個案子也經過溝通過就改成主決議並且提書面報告好"},{"start":10986.343,"end":11008.844,"text":"我們在針對第五目司法科技業務的第五十案進行宣告就改為主決議第五十案改為主決議我們繼續處理第十二款第四項廉政署的主決議就提案案號第五十一案第五十一案是審法會委員的提案已經也溝通過了就進行文字的修正"},{"start":11010.092,"end":11032.818,"text":"法務部有沒有意見沒有意見好那麼我們就再宣告主決議第51案修正通過修正通過第51案那第12款第4項零證書我們就處理完畢那繼續處理第12款第5項矯證書及所屬第一目一般行政提案案號是第52案那第52案是本席這裡所提出的要刪減"},{"start":11035.039,"end":11051.471,"text":"矯正署署長的特別費那麼這個部分的話當然一方面也是考慮到就是現在國家的這個財政大幅支出那麼非必要的民生支出基本上能省則省所以呢在此就提案簡列19萬5千元同時呢本期針對於這個矯正署署長針對像是保衛就醫的這個相關的"},{"start":11060.122,"end":11064.745,"text":"他的事實與否的查核事實上可能是有偏頗"},{"start":11071.075,"end":11094.79,"text":"陳水扁這個受刑人他們在看起來他的身體健康狀況良好但是始終的遲遲沒有回監獄服刑那麼但是就是本席認為說矯正署在這方面的查核上面可能有待於職守所以同時認為法務部這個矯正署的署長有監督不周的情況因此就是提出檢列特別費195,000元"},{"start":11097.838,"end":11105.941,"text":"主席 那個特別費的通案保留好 那我們這案子我們就通案保留那接下來就是那我們這一個所以針對"},{"start":11114.169,"end":11137.74,"text":"矯正署及所屬第一幕一般行政提案號第52案那麼我們就保留送協商繼續處理第二幕的矯正業務第53案到第61案那麼第53案是經過跟林倩琦委員溝通過已經改成主決議那請矯正署要提出書面報告"},{"start":11138.74,"end":11154.811,"text":"那麼第54案也是改成主決議請繳證署提出書面報告第55案是改成主決議並且提書面報告第56案是改成主決議請繳證署提書面報告第57案也是改主決議改書面報告"},{"start":11169.352,"end":11186.802,"text":"那第58案本席提出來的案子那辦理矯正訓練業務也是改成凍結500萬然後要提專案報告經過同意之後才可以使用這部分的話有沒有要說明的主席各位委員好第58案的話這個"},{"start":11193.144,"end":11210.13,"text":"我這邊再做一個補充說明我們矯正的科技安全計畫它是一個連續性的合約所以說現在正是我們的建制期所以說目前這個預算執行是很緊急的很緊密的所以說希望說可以"},{"start":11211.13,"end":11230.253,"text":"可以說在我們凍結這500萬裡面的話,這個專案報告可不可以改為書面報告讓我們盡速,第58讓我們盡速來執行這樣的一個預算的一個控管的一個執行不要讓我們的科技安全網我們要改善我們監鎖的這些老舊的設備能夠順利來執行所以說"},{"start":11232.425,"end":11251.926,"text":"所以說希望說我們這個預算的話是個凍結500萬我們同意但是的話專案報告是不是可以改為書面報告?謝謝即便書面報告我要經過同意所以這個部分的話就是因為我們之前已經有下好多案子經書面報告要經同意如果可以的話那就簽如果不同意的話我們這本案就保留"},{"start":11253.203,"end":11266.11,"text":"好是是是同意同意好同意好那我們我們就這邊的話就是改成凍結五百萬然後經書面報告同意之後提書面報告經同意後時的動之好"},{"start":11275.506,"end":11295.846,"text":"好那麼第59案陳昭志委員這裡的提案他說已經跟你們也談了一個已經有談已經溝通過了對不對溝通過了然後就改成是書面報告並經同意之後使得動之那凍結數原來是30%是嗎不是他改為凍結20%"},{"start":11301.076,"end":11324.887,"text":"欸 趕快再告訴我最新的資訊到底是凍結20%還是凍結30%好 等一下對 因為有看到好 那麼好 第59案基本上就是改凍結20%然後提書面報告經同意後 使得凍之是"},{"start":11330.543,"end":11358.905,"text":"那麼第60案是已經改組決議了要提書面報告那第61案的話這個也是經過溝通過之後這是本席的提案那麼這邊的話也是改凍結5%然後是要提專案報告並經同意這其實你們之前就已經同意了跟主席報告是不是可不可以改為書面報告我們要加書面訊息 好吧那就一起書面報告並經同意好不好好 謝謝"},{"start":11363.173,"end":11376.468,"text":"那稍等一下待會再一併的重新宣告一次有算對嗎有算了嗎這樣可以嗎有算清楚了嗎"},{"start":11381.294,"end":11385.676,"text":"對 結果都一樣 結果都一樣 第一個就這樣 把他們寫一寫 寫一寫 寫一寫 寫一寫"},{"start":11406.087,"end":11414.674,"text":"好的 那麼現在進行宣告第二幕矯正業務提案案號第53案到第61案那麼我們改為主決議的案子有53 54 55 56 57及第60案那除以上個案外本幕合併然後凍結5062萬"},{"start":11429.342,"end":11457.135,"text":"那針對各凍結提案的要求依審查會的決議要提出書面報告後使得並經同意使得凍結針對各凍結提案的要求依審查會議的決議提出書面報告後使得凍結那第58案、59案和第61案都要提出書面報告經同意後使得凍結"},{"start":11459.175,"end":11465.321,"text":"好沒問題好那麼我們就繼續處理第三步改善監所計劃提案號是第62案那第62案的部分是本席所提出來的案子那這個部分因為已經也跟矯正署這裡溝通過了所以我們就改成主決議然後就是提書面報告"},{"start":11483.601,"end":11499.708,"text":"接下來是第16案在進行宣告第62案是改為第三目改善監索計畫提案案號第62案改為主決議的是第62案"},{"start":11502.073,"end":11518.263,"text":"好 那麼我們就繼續處理第4幕的一般建築及設備提案案號是第63案那麼第63案是本席這裡所提出的案子主要是因為矯正署要換公務車這次提的預算是871萬"},{"start":11525.503,"end":11526.404,"text":"8,711萬你們在提的要換這個小鎮署的公務車8,711萬元"},{"start":11539.11,"end":11554.886,"text":"那么针对缴赠署所提的这个8711万元因为你们是打算淘汰42辆小客车两辆机车可是呢经过我们去了解啊公务车辆的这个你们汰换小客车基本上104年之后"},{"start":11557.568,"end":11580.123,"text":"才購買的有六輛分別是矯正署的首長用車台南監獄敦品中學立志中學東城監獄第二台南第二監獄等等的這些購車也就是說其實你們購車都還差不多頂多只有十年吧那事實上這些車子都還可以用不需要去更換所以本席認為說應該要尊潔使用這幾部車的這個價格應該要"},{"start":11587.989,"end":11611.185,"text":"就不需要去支出所以我提出就是要刪減1200萬反正總之就是未達15年的車子就不予貸換而且未來如果要考慮要換車的話也希望能夠以油電車為考量以油電車為優先考量好 那麼以上看看有沒有要補充說明的"},{"start":11611.645,"end":11633.422,"text":"跟委員報告 因為九鄭機關的話 目前我們機關數有78個機關啊 什麼我們目前的機關數有78個機關那所編的這些車輛的話都是依行政院給我們的一個標準 說要8年以上的車輛希望能夠改為電動車所以說我們是依這樣的一個行政院給我們的指示來編列這樣的預算的 就改為電動車"},{"start":11635.043,"end":11651.178,"text":"所以說希望委員能夠支持我們我們這次配合說是整個的環保的節能減碳希望能夠減少空氣的污染希望這些已經超過8年以上的10年以上的車輛能夠改為電動車是這樣的名義來編的並不是說我們要提早去編列這車輛的汰換以上"},{"start":11653.338,"end":11662.624,"text":"我想行政院的鼓勵公務機關全面改成電動車的政策本身是有疑慮的基本上現在台灣電動車的條件也還沒有很完善第二個就是說對於先前我們的一般的公務車基本上就是15年而且要達到一定的里程數才換這也是一個尊潔之初的表現"},{"start":11677.293,"end":11703.702,"text":"再加上我們現在台灣的電動車尤其是公務部門編的電動車的費用非常高啊一部大概都是將近兩百萬平均兩百萬左右的這個電動車實在是沒有必要就是浪費國家的工廠去編這麼高額的這個錢那麼本席支持就是如果說你車子用了15年或者是說你提前達到這個一定相當程度譬如說15萬的這個里程數可以汰換我完全支持但是在還沒有"},{"start":11705.542,"end":11728.158,"text":"達到這個使用的年限同時以及里程數也沒有達到之前那本席認為這些費用非必要支出該省則省所以就提出三減一千兩百萬然後也就是三減就矯正署長的用車嘛就是署長就麻煩您就還是現在車堪用的話就可以用然後還有就是台南監獄端品用處等等這些都還是可以使用不需要更換好請"},{"start":11730.734,"end":11750.713,"text":"我想這個牽涉到行政院對於公務車輛的電動車汰換的一個大政策所以他們也是依循這個政策編所以我們是不是這個我們就整個就留到政黨協商你所有行政院所有機關都有同樣的問題那我們是建議保留保留到政黨協商"},{"start":11753.646,"end":11775.794,"text":"好那我們這個案子我們就保留到鎮長協商好謝謝那接下來還有好我們先宣告第一班第四幕一般建築及設備提案號第63案我們就保留送協商是第63案那接下來我們就繼續處理第12款第五項矯正署及所屬的主決議提案號是第64案到第69案好那麼64案到60"},{"start":11783.294,"end":11809.109,"text":"六案主要是審法會委員的提案 沈委員有要說明嗎好的 那麼 那就接下來就是張雅玲委員的兩個提案好 我簡單說明一下就是針對於上次我就看來少年矯正學校的一些校園設施的安全性因為路面不平啦 動性也不是很安全那宿舍或教室都相當老舊 那活動空間也有不足可能會增加他們跌倒受傷或衝突的風險"},{"start":11810.41,"end":11827.868,"text":"所以我是希望说矫正署三个月内针对四所矫正学校盘点设施设备有没有哪一些需要来做一些修缮的把一些急迫性的时程表把它拉出来这样子那第68案呢也是针对于说校内的一个学生申诉和意见反映的一个机制"},{"start":11829.546,"end":11845.632,"text":"那我是認為是說應該要讓外部委員來參與案件的審查例如兒少教育心理法律人權或社工專業的人士那這樣子針對學生要申訴的時候他也會相信這個制度是比較有公信力的那以上是我針對於矯正署的這兩個提案的說明"},{"start":11848.038,"end":11876.797,"text":"那麼請問那個業務單位有沒有需要再說明的那麼我們再來進行宣告對不起第69案是吳宗憲委員的案子也是改成主決議了業務單位有需要說明嗎沒有那麼我們接下我們針對主決議第64案到第69案來進行宣告那麼就照案通過第64到69案就照案通過"},{"start":11878.856,"end":11896.229,"text":"64到69案因為63案是保留我們剛剛之前已經宣告過了現在是宣告組決議的案子好那麼我們第12款第5項矯正署及所屬機關已經處理完畢那麼繼續我們就處理第6項行政執行署及所屬"},{"start":11897.881,"end":11925.56,"text":"第三目執行案件的處理提案案號是第七十案那第七十案的部分是徐宇甄委員已經有溝通過了那麼已經改成主決議並且提書面報告那麼接下來是好來我再進行宣告那麼第六項行政執行署及所屬第三目執行案件處理提案號第七十案已經改成主決議"},{"start":11927.267,"end":11943.792,"text":"那麼我們就繼續處理第十二款第六項行政執行署及所屬的主決議提案號是第七十一案七十一案是審判會委員的案子有需要再說明嗎好沒有的話那義務單位呢好同意好那麼我們接下來是第好我們再來宣告"},{"start":11945.285,"end":11974.038,"text":"主決議提案案號第71案那麼就照案通過第71案第12款第6項行政執行署及所屬處理完畢我們接下來繼續處理最高處理第7項最高檢察署第一幕的一般行政提案案號是第72案那第72案是本席這裡所提出的特別費的部分這個部分的話是"},{"start":11975.073,"end":11978.986,"text":"跟檢查就是檢查總長特別費"},{"start":11981.226,"end":12004.445,"text":"有關的案子那麼同樣的就是基於就是特別費非必要支出要遵截支出所以呢我這裡呢而且就是檢查總長115年5月7號任期屆滿出缺新任總長還沒有正式正式的新任總長沒有就任之前這個部分應該要予以凍結所以我這裡提案就是檢列238,000並且凍結138,000等到新任總長"},{"start":12009.449,"end":12023.25,"text":"新任正式的檢查總長到任陛下立法院森委會提出書面報告後 實得動之好 那麼這個案子 來請主席我想特別費的部分我們要不要就通案保留好了好 那麼特別費案子我們就通案保留"},{"start":12027.799,"end":12036.105,"text":"那麼針對第七項最高檢查署第一幕一般行政提案號第72案保留送協商號第72案那麼我們繼續處理第二幕的檢查業務提案號是第73案到74案"},{"start":12046.038,"end":12060.923,"text":"那73個74案其實都已經溝通都已經有經過溝通了第73案的溝通結果是改凍結100萬然後並且提書面報告那第74案林建吉委員案子是改主決議並且提書面報告"},{"start":12064.209,"end":12072.853,"text":"好那我們就宣告第二幕檢查業務第提案案號第73案到74案74案就是改為主決議那麼除以上個案外本幕合併就是凍結100萬好73案是凍結100萬那請針對各凍結提案的要求依審查會決議要提出書面報告後使得動之所以我們第12款第7項最高檢查署處理完畢那麼繼續就處理第8項台灣高等檢查署第二幕的檢查業務"},{"start":12093.962,"end":12122.788,"text":"提案案號是第75案到第78案那75案到第78案看起來都已經都溝通過了好那麼75案是改凍結50萬提書面報告76案是改凍結檢查業務100萬提書面報告第77案是改凍結檢查業務100萬提書面報告第78案是改主決議提書面報告這些案都是吳宗憲委員的提案那業務單位有沒有要說明的"},{"start":12123.902,"end":12137.166,"text":"好沒有的話我們就進行下面的宣告第八項台灣高等檢查署第二目檢查業務提案案號第75案到第78案第78案就改為主決都改為主決議啊75到78"},{"start":12141.683,"end":12165.161,"text":"好抱歉那78案是改為主決議那麼另外757677則是凍結就是本木合併凍結250萬那針對各凍結提案的要求一審常會決議要提出書面報告後使得凍之所以我們第12款第8項台灣高等檢查署就處理完畢那繼續我們就處理第16項到16項台灣新北"},{"start":12170.56,"end":12183.484,"text":"地方檢查署第17項台灣桃園地方檢查署第18項台灣新竹地方檢查署第19項台灣苗栗地方檢查署第20項台灣台中地方檢查署第21項台灣南投地方檢查署第24項台灣嘉義地方檢查署"},{"start":12188.308,"end":12201.862,"text":"第26項台灣橋頭地方檢查署第29項台灣台東地方檢查署第30項台灣花林地方檢查署第31項台灣宜蘭地方檢查署那麼以上各項的第二幕檢查業務提案案號是第79案到第89案"},{"start":12209.963,"end":12229.528,"text":"那這些案子其實都溝通過了那麼業務單位有需要做說明的嗎沒有那我還是要進行宣告因為這些案子全部都溝通過了都是改成主決議然後請法務部要提出書面報告所以本期就不再一案一案的念"},{"start":12234.81,"end":12253.108,"text":"在这边在做宣告第16项台湾新北地方检查署第17项台湾桃园地方检查署第18项台湾新竹地方检查署第19项台湾苗栗地方检查署第20项台湾台中地方检查署第21项台湾南投地方检查署第24项台湾嘉义地方检查署"},{"start":12253.488,"end":12269.807,"text":"第26項台灣橋頭地方檢查署第29項台灣台東地方檢查署第30項台灣花林地方檢查署第31項台灣宜蘭地方檢查署以上各項的第二目檢查業務提案案號第79案到89案審查結果均改列為"},{"start":12270.988,"end":12292.458,"text":"改列為第一項法務部的主決議好那我們第十二款第十六項十七項十八項十九項二十項第二十一項第二十四項第二十六項第二十九項第三十項及第三十一項等各地方檢察署處理完畢接下來我們就處理第三十七項調查局第一幕一般行政提案案號是第九十案到第九十二案"},{"start":12294.178,"end":12320.859,"text":"好那第九十案到第九十二案都已經溝通過了那麼葉國當委有沒有要說明的沒有好沒有的話那我們就來宣告第九十案到第九十二案都是對不起來第千十七項調查局第一目一般行政提案案號第九十案至九十二案都這三案九十九一九二都改為主決議"},{"start":12322.418,"end":12340.065,"text":"好那我們接著就處理第二幕司法調查業務提案案號第93案到第94案第93案第94案也都溝通過了好都是改組決議那業務單位有要說明嗎"},{"start":12342.093,"end":12370.869,"text":"好沒有的話那我們就第二幕司法調查業務提案號第九十案到第九十四案那就改為主決議好那麼接下來我們就處理第三幕鑑識科學及通訊監察業務提案號是第九十五案第九十五案市區政委員的提案跟你們已經也溝通過了好就改動結一千萬然後提書面報告是遵照辦理好"},{"start":12373.567,"end":12377.749,"text":"那麼我們第三目 鑑識科學及通訊監察業務提案案號是第95案那麼我們凍結1000萬 並針對凍結提案的要求依審查會決議提出書面報告後時的凍資所以我們第12款第37項調查局已經處理完畢"},{"start":12395.81,"end":12409.645,"text":"本日的議程討論事項的第一案已經處理完畢本席做以下宣告本案審查完畢提報院會院會討論前必須交由黨團協商院會討論時就由翁昭吉委員小林來說明"},{"start":12413.386,"end":12437.103,"text":"現在我們就進行現在繼續進行討論事項第二案審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於法務部主管法務部矯正機關作業基金的收支部分請各位可以參閱提案以及會診表那針對法務部矯正機關作業基金有委員一案"},{"start":12441.082,"end":12456.073,"text":"就是張雅琳委員這邊的提案那麼張委員還要說明嗎還是不用好那麼這個案子呢就是改增列為增列500萬並同增列銷貨成本400萬元及業務外費用50萬元"},{"start":12461.806,"end":12485.56,"text":"那本席再宣告一次就法務部矯正機關作業基金業務收入銷貨收入提案案號第一案就增列500萬然後並同增列銷貨成本400萬元及業務外費用50萬元那麼我們法務部矯正機關作業基金就處理完畢那接下來呢討論事項第二案是"},{"start":12486.98,"end":12515.296,"text":"就已經處理完畢那麼就做以下宣告本案審查完略提報院會院會討論之前必須交由黨團協商院會討論時就由翁召集委員小林來說明那我們現在進行討論事項第三案繼續審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於法務部主管毒品防治基金的收支部分因為沒有委員提案所以我們的預算就照列"},{"start":12522.849,"end":12533.723,"text":"討論事項第三案就已經處理完畢作以下宣告本案審查完畢就提報院會院會討論之前必須交由黨團協商院會討論時就由本席來做說明"},{"start":12535.987,"end":12550.006,"text":"那我們現在進行討論四項第四案繼續審查法務部含送的財團法人台灣更生保護會財團法人福建更生保護會及財團法人犯罪被害人保護協會的115年度的預算案"},{"start":12553.393,"end":12575.035,"text":"那請參閱提案及會診表那針對財團法人台灣更生保護會115年度的預算案有一個委員提案就是張委員你有提案那麼已經改為主決議就是基本上是提主決議那麼請張委員要說明嗎那業務單位呢有沒有需要說明的"},{"start":12576.703,"end":12589.856,"text":"感謝張委員的提案 跟我們目前的更生保護會的一個努力的目標是一致的所以這部分我們會同意遵照辦理"},{"start":12591.294,"end":12616.976,"text":"那麼針對財團法人臺灣更生保護會本席作者下宣告就是有一案主決議就照案通過第一案主決議照案通過那麼財團法人臺灣更生保護會就處理完畢那麼其餘財團法人福建更生保護會以及財團法人犯罪被害人保護協會115年度預算案因為沒有委員提案所以我們的預算就均照列"},{"start":12620.731,"end":12632.429,"text":"那麼討論事項第四案中已經處理完畢了本席座以下宣告本案審查完畢提報院會院會討論之前不需交由黨團協商院會討論時就由本席來做說明"},{"start":12635.097,"end":12649.342,"text":"好的那麼有關本日的議程討論事項通過修正的預算提案請機關將修正內容經過提案委員簽名同意之後就送交主席台並且列入公報記錄通過的決議就依例文字授權主席及議事人員來整理"},{"start":12653.783,"end":12666.756,"text":"那本日會議的議程所列的事項都已經處理完畢那明天上午九點我們會繼續開會審查115年度立法院主管的預算案好那今天辛苦大家了我們就現在休息好謝謝大家"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}