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那麼我們現在開會首先先進行報告事項請先宣讀上次的會議議事錄"},{"start":1602.287,"end":1627.781,"text":"立法院第十一屆第五會期司法及法治委員會第十六次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十五年六月三日星期三上午九時至十時三十九分地點本院紅樓三零二會議室出席委員吳宗憲委員等十三人列席委員鄭振淺委員一人列席官員考試院秘書長劉建興等人主席莊昭吉委員瑞雄報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定討論事項"},{"start":1631.304,"end":1643.638,"text":"繼續審查一百一十五年度中央政府總預算案關於考試院級所屬主管收支部分等四案決議一一百一十五年度中央政府總預算案關於考試院級所屬主管收支部分稅務部分第二項"},{"start":1645.64,"end":1653.505,"text":"第二款第56項至第60項均五列數第三款第61項至第53項均照列第四款第62項至第66項均照列第67項五列數第七款第62項照列第63項五列數第64項至第66項均照列隨處部分第五款第一項檢列業務費63萬元業務費向下水電費10萬元業務費向下通訊費60萬元"},{"start":1671.676,"end":1686.787,"text":"業務費向下按日計案件計資酬金30萬元業務費向下特別費197萬元以上供給簡列360萬元其餘均照列改列為3億4259千元本項通過決議13項第二項照列本項提案一案保留送院會處理本項通過決議13項第三項簡列業務費向下通訊費30萬元業務費向下"},{"start":1697.735,"end":1710.742,"text":"約用人員籌金30萬元業務費向下按日案件計資籌金20萬元第三目一般建築及設備第一節交通及運輸設備向下交通及運輸設備中設備及投資50萬元以上共計減列130萬元其餘均照列改列為396億1635萬8千元本項提案一案保留送院會處理本項通過決議14項"},{"start":1721.468,"end":1747.015,"text":"第四項檢列業務費向下按日案件計資酬金十萬元業務費向下尾班費二十萬元以上共計檢列三十萬元其餘均照列改列為二億五千三百二十一萬二千元本項提案一案保留送院會處理本項通過決議七項第五項及第六項均照列中華民國一百一十五年度中央政府總預算案關於考試任期所屬主管收支部分審查完均提報院會院會討論前須交由黨團協商院會討論時由中央召集委員會總主席說明"},{"start":1750.816,"end":1751.16,"text":"考選業務基金"},{"start":1754.201,"end":1782.52,"text":"業務計劃 應依據業務收支轉投資固定資產建設改良擴充及資金運用等向之審查結果隨同調整業務收支 業務總收入 業務總支出本期剩餘均照列街角公庫金額及轉投資計劃均無列數固定資產建設改良擴充及國庫增撥基金額均照列補辦預算無列數三公務人員退收輔具基金基金運用計劃應依據收支餘出撥補等向之審查結果隨同調整總收入總支出本期剩餘均照列"},{"start":1784.281,"end":1806.523,"text":"公教人員個人專務制推幅基金運用計劃因依據收支予出博補等項制審查結果隨同調整總收入總支出本期剩餘均照列以上二三四案均審查完略提報院會院會討論前須交由黨團協商院會討論時由中交紀委任瑞雄書記說明本次會議通過之決議依例文字授權主席及議事人員整理宣讀完畢"},{"start":1810.17,"end":1832.799,"text":"好請問各位委員上次會議議事錄有沒有錯誤或遺漏沒有的話我們就議事錄確定那接著呢本期介紹今天到場的委員以及應邀列席官員首先先介紹徐宇貞委員然後陳昭之委員好那接下來我今天的主要邀請的有法務部的鄭明謙正部長黃某信黃次長"},{"start":1834.447,"end":1859.057,"text":"好 謝謝然後你今天正部警政署的廖訓程廖副署長那其他的交通部衛福部海巡署財務財政部教育部以及速發部等等的官員本期就不再逐一的介紹然後並列入公報記錄那本次的議程是排定從源頭查緝到道路安全我國毒品犯罪與毒價防治政策的專題報告以及詢答"},{"start":1860.754,"end":1868.721,"text":"那麼我們就現在先進行報告原則上每位發言三分鐘那麼我們就現在先請法務部的明天政部長報告"},{"start":1873.306,"end":1891.999,"text":"主席 各位委員 各位女士 先生今天要就從源頭查棄道道路安全我國毒品犯罪以獨家房子的政策進行報告我國反毒工作已進入新世代反毒策略第三期那法國不是主責棄毒工作於114年查獲毒品達1萬"},{"start":1894.381,"end":1919.493,"text":"8623公斤較前一年度成長2.16倍那毒品新生人口較106年下降約4成那面對近期一通彌子的新興毒品的一個擴散並衍生毒價及重大交通事故現在於15年6月4日院會提出源頭賀祖強化查緝重懲毒價三大方向及14項作為本部江一行政院政策指示就主管業務範圍立即啟動毒品防治"},{"start":1923.22,"end":1940.917,"text":"犯罪及毒價的一個防制那針對毒品分級列管基金列管已經731項為國際最多之一同時強化預警機制包含以國際公約進行跨國比較利用台高檢緝毒督導小組會要成立跨單位預警平台"},{"start":1941.477,"end":1968.054,"text":"完善毒品防治監控機制那本部在一一三年十一月將一通米子類毒品提升為第二級應當前一通米子類毒品擴散於六月十七日將要召開讀審會審理事務將提列為第一級毒品若經審理通過經行政院公告未來製造運輸販賣最高可處實行本部深化安居棄毒專案最近兩波的專案查獲製造販賣"},{"start":1971.7,"end":1990.573,"text":"運輸一通民子811億人及工廠188處另外我們將電子菸結合新興毒品類為茶器的重點加強邊境黃毒深化情資交流切斷所謂的供應管道本部補助各縣市毒防中心辦理社區選導從源頭提升青少年辨識風險的能力"},{"start":1993.115,"end":2019.602,"text":"那刑法185-3已經立三七次修法那啟動來提高行獨駕的一個刑者那目前針對獨駕致死或致重傷全面加重刑度嚴格假釋範圍並將採取義務沒收車輛針對不能安全駕駛致死致重傷不論車輛是否屬於行為人所有一例沒收那本部整合六大機關溯源段跟針對獨駕"},{"start":2021.443,"end":2047.444,"text":"致死的案件將依法申請預防性羈押5月15日刑事訴訟修正以來已准了61件同時要求檢察官重層獨駕犯刑監督法院妥適良刑從任審議可罰金那宣導部分已經針對一通名字類及獨駕危害製作宣導專案上架反毒大本營結合知名網紅頻道強化反毒資訊的普及"},{"start":2048.044,"end":2068.295,"text":"那獨家乙型毒品嚴重危害社會的安全本部將依行政院政策方針請台高檢統合六大緝毒機關溯源斷根向下拋根強化法制去宣導同步的推動共同守護國人交通安全與社會安定以上報告進行主席各位委員指教謝謝"},{"start":2071.035,"end":2086.386,"text":"好謝謝部長那麼我們接下來請內政部警政署的副署長報告那在副署長報告結束之後呢我基本上再邀請教育部的學生事務及特殊教師司長蔡司長蔡司長好待會再請您報告好請"},{"start":2091.781,"end":2118.971,"text":"主席 各位委員 女士先生 大家早安內政部警政署針對從源頭查緝到道路安全我國毒品犯罪與毒價防治政策進行報告 請請各位委員來指教那為了防治私用毒品後的一個駕車造勢案件本署已經推動多項的毒價法規政策並且引進了拖曳快篩執法策略讓警方跟司法機關能夠在危險篡位發生之前提前介入賀紙"},{"start":2119.651,"end":2138.525,"text":"以有效阻絕獨駕的一個危害保障民眾生命財產安全為了有效防治獨駕本組在114年11月20號函發取締儀式試用毒品後駕車的作業程序通令全國各警察機關全面運用唾液毒品快篩試劑攔查獨駕"},{"start":2140.566,"end":2162.117,"text":"另外在今年的5月13號在航班修訂該作業程序新版的程序明定凡錯篩檢驗呈現陽性或是駕駛人據測且客觀情況主任不能安全駕駛者均得依現刑犯或準現刑犯當場逮捕大幅簡化執法的一個流程提升查紀的一個效率"},{"start":2163.459,"end":2181.334,"text":"那為因應一坨米子毒品迅速的一個盛行本署也透過暑期青春專案加強掃蕩喪屍煙彈及安居棄毒專案等行動將該類毒品列為茶季重點項目落實向上溯源茶季至源頭打擊毒價統計從113年8月到115年4月抵止"},{"start":2185.638,"end":2202.546,"text":"全國各警察機關總共逮捕毒品的嫌犯總計有21207人次查過依托米子類的毒品849.5公斤那也成功防堵這些毒品可以製成850萬顆的一個煙毒彈流入市面"},{"start":2203.466,"end":2217.215,"text":"為了截斷毒品供應本署除積極查緝毒品專案落實向上溯源之外另外也嚴密防堵跨國郵包等方式走私新興毒品另外在網路防治方面本署跟台灣網路資訊中心TWNIC"},{"start":2218.976,"end":2224.139,"text":"建立涉毒網站的屏蔽機制114年到115年5月30日共喊請停止解析達25250個涉毒網域成功攔阻超過54萬次的不法觸及本署在今年的1到5月"},{"start":2237.887,"end":2264.332,"text":"動員全國各警察機關針對易發生獨駕之時段路段執行取締獨駕酒駕勤務總共查獲了6730件獨駕的案件立即做一致保管車輛跟查扣車牌本署也在5月28號函請交通部公路局依照道路交通管理處罰條例規定公布獨駕累犯姓名等資料以達宣誓及嚇阻效果"},{"start":2265.352,"end":2289.037,"text":"那獨駕是全民公敵本署將持續強化斷元緝毒以及查緝獨駕等執法作為並透過跨部會的合作從執法查緝司法偵辦到刑和處遇等層面推動精進推動各項防治策略另外另外也會配合跟支持法務部提高獨駕法定刑度交通部推動修正道交條"},{"start":2290.137,"end":2307.176,"text":"道路交通管理處罰條例衛生福利部修正淹害防治法等相關策略共同全力防止獨家危害以上報告進行主席及各位委員質疑好 謝謝副署長那我們接下來再請教育部的蔡司長報告 謝謝"},{"start":2309.855,"end":2325.412,"text":"主席各位委員各位女士先生大家好今天應邀就從源頭查緝到道路安全我國毒品犯罪與毒價防治政策進行報告教育部在校園端的工作主要從辨識風險阻斷來源"},{"start":2328.335,"end":2343.852,"text":"及时处育及精准辅导四个面向推动第一在辨识风险方面本部将药物滥用电子烟及新兴毒品危害纳入健康与体育领域课程学习重点与防治宣导"},{"start":2345.213,"end":2358.141,"text":"114年高中以下學校已全面完成陸班宣導並透過數位媒材、民間特展及分齡分眾宣導提升學生對反毒、對毒品、電子菸及毒價風險的辨識能力"},{"start":2360.362,"end":2371.446,"text":"第二 在阻斷來源方面本部與內政部警政署衛福部及地方政府合作定期召開聯繫會議目前已於全國3627所學校建立9192處巡查熱點落實校園周邊巡查即可以資訊通報同時也配合衛福部電子煙查緝平台防堵網路販售第三 在即時處遇方面"},{"start":2388.351,"end":2410.081,"text":"因依托米子等新鮮毒品以傳統尿液快篩較難及時查知本部陣研議將拖曳快篩納入校園輔導機制在推動上將兼顧學生權益隱私保護及家長知情第四在精準輔導方面凡涉及藥物濫用學生學校將成立"},{"start":2411.141,"end":2435.202,"text":"村徽小組進行三個月輔導並銜接少府會、毒房中心等資源並針對大專隱性個案也透過台師大青年燒光計畫提供免費心理諮商未來本部也將持續推動分級分眾的反毒與防毒架宣導並完備脫衣快篩相關配套措施包括修訂作業要點"},{"start":2437.263,"end":2453.057,"text":"順利推動至校園第一線從前端教育周邊布防及時篩檢到後端輔導建立完整校園防護網守護青少年健康也共同維護道路交通安全以上報告敬請主席及各位委員指教謝謝"},{"start":2456.618,"end":2465.981,"text":"謝謝蔡市長的報告那麼其餘機關所提出的書面報告不曉得還有沒有要做口頭的補充或說明的"},{"start":2467.233,"end":2491.215,"text":"好沒有的話那麼我們機關代表就報告完畢那相關的書面內容就請各位參閱並且列入公報記錄那我們現在就開始進行詢答那仍然是本會委員詢答時間為八分鐘必要時候得延長兩分鐘非本會委員詢答的時間為五分鐘並不再延長我們上午十點三十分就截止發言登記接下來我們就邀請第一位的吳宗憲委員來進行詢答"},{"start":2501.735,"end":2508.22,"text":"好 謝謝主席 那我們麻煩內政部 交通部 法務部 還有衛福部好 麻煩這幾個機關的官員請列席好 各位早安"},{"start":2525.576,"end":2532,"text":"好 各位早安我想我在這邊先跟你們講一個數據就是這個新聞數據左邊這一張113年獨駕2619件然後到我們一路看漲到8569件然後一年暴增3.2倍到115年更高也就是說平均5天就有5天就有335期獨駕那這個部分新聞的數據麻煩你們先看一下所以這個代表什麼"},{"start":2554.131,"end":2570.362,"text":"這代表說毒價已經變成我們現在日常的常態風險了那我們再把時間往前面拉2024年1月那個報導者他有用一篇文章提醒政府當時就提醒了伊脫米子是個新興毒品它已經變成一個黑色產業鏈"},{"start":2572.261,"end":2590.752,"text":"印度一路跑到台灣人的嘴巴裡面年輕人的嘴巴135公斤可以做1萬顆我記得我那時候在當召委2024年在當召委的時候黃國昌委員也在場質詢了這件事情但是這一年多快兩年來我們沒有看到政府有很積極的作為"},{"start":2592.173,"end":2606.514,"text":"我今天請大家出來其實主要是因為行政院上個禮拜有公布14項政策啦又是洋洋灑灑的加重刑責配合電子煙罰責又是終身吊銷駕照但是呢這個跟預防有什麼關係"},{"start":2607.735,"end":2623.665,"text":"這個就是不停的加重責任這個就是事情發生之後你要怎麼解決嘛所以還是沒有辦法處理問題啊所以我之前在處理打炸的時候我一直跟大家說要從前端預防要從來源端預防所以我開了幾次跨部會的會議希望讓"},{"start":2624.545,"end":2647.322,"text":"詐欺的訊息廣告行為可以變少因為被害人啊被害人他永遠不是管你這個被告被判多重他只希望錢能夠回來一樣這些獨家的被害人家屬他們不是盼望著被告能判多重他只希望家人能夠平安回來所以我們今天要求的是前端的處理而不是後端你們在捕破網"},{"start":2648.663,"end":2661.992,"text":"我想那個警政署那個副座這一兩年所有很多個案子包括我們看到之前三重分局28歲的那個年輕員警他只是巡邏在等紅燈然後就被獨駕的人撞死然後留下"},{"start":2663.041,"end":2691.509,"text":"小妻子和四歲的兒子回不了家然後我們再看一下前一陣子那個清水派出所的那個劉錢所長他臨檢的時候被衝撞然後被拖了幾百公尺 殉職死亡其實這個都只是一般我們警察 員警會遇到的例行性情誤並不是什麼重大掃揮案件所以很多人跟我講說刑警很危險我跟他說警察都危險但是我要告訴你們的是派出所警察遠比刑警危險"},{"start":2692.009,"end":2715.535,"text":"因為他每天面對的是不知道會發生什麼事情的狀況那這一年多來我也跟那個劉前所長的爸爸一直維持了聯繫他到現在他反而一直跟我說要我要好好照顧警察他還在念茲再茲是這個我爸爸以前是警察他也跟我說過我這一輩子不管做到什麼職位一輩子就是要保護好警察"},{"start":2716.235,"end":2733.714,"text":"他都一直跟我這樣講就請問一下你們警政署你有真的為第一線的警察在那邊思考嗎當我們站在任何一個位置當檢察官的時候在當立法委員的時候我都一直在想怎麼幫警察消防這些人維護他的安全維護他的權益的時候警政署你們在哪裡我常常一直在想這個問題"},{"start":2736.348,"end":2760.948,"text":"官員不可以在面對這件事情的時候永遠都是今天公祭明天旺祭後天就繼續不能永遠是這樣啦副座我請現在一個問題我們的例行性勤務現在警察他面對的已經不是說吹個酒測器或戴安全帽因為他永遠不知道來的人是什麼樣的背景所以來的人他會不會獨駕這個警察都沒有辦法知道你們警政署的報告給我的報告2021年43件獨駕到"},{"start":2766.333,"end":2793.069,"text":"2025年已經漲了200倍然後呢去年19死229傷今年1到3月已經3000多件了所以今年一定會再飆破去年的每年十幾條人命一路飆升但我看到行政院的還是一樣只是補破網的那個做法那我想請問一下 警政署你們對這些這些狀況發生你們有沒有發現什麼樣制度漏洞造成"},{"start":2794.402,"end":2817.433,"text":"謝謝委員支持跟關心我們警察那有關毒價的部分 剛才委員也很清楚那我們在新北市這個三重的一個員警發生這個意外之後接下來土城的一個所長發生這個意外那兩件的意外 那時候依托彌子都還是從管制藥品到三次級毒品"},{"start":2817.873,"end":2836.555,"text":"那因為我們在警察在第一線執法的過程裡面是觀察到這個毒品的一個現象所以當時我們也提報把這個伊托米茲應該要列為毒品對所以那另外關於員警的執勤安全的部分我們一向都是在加強訓練而且要"},{"start":2837.316,"end":2851.664,"text":"培養我們同仁有危機意思我懂副座的意思那我只是要請教一個你們有沒有給他們一個高風險駕駛預警的系統給警察一個這樣的系統或者是你們有沒有要求交通部或法務部能夠提供高風險的駕駛名單給你們其實我在想的是這個"},{"start":2854.765,"end":2877.73,"text":"因為警察不是說他有時候是在跟著某一輛車覺得某一輛車歪來歪去那他可能要把他攔下來臨檢但是他有沒有在第一個時間他小電腦查的時候就可以很快的知道這個人大概是過往的是什麼樣的狀況有沒有辦法很及時的示警其實我一直在思考的是這個問題我也一直在推動這個所以這個人有沒有毒品前科有沒有高危險高風險的駕駛紀錄的資料我們目前"},{"start":2880.47,"end":2895.401,"text":"國家是分散在不同的系統譬如說交通監理一套系統毒品記錄一套系統警政偵查又一套系統所以他這個系統沒有辦法橫向的連結啊那這個就讓警察他能夠得到的資料"},{"start":2896.141,"end":2916.563,"text":"很少少很多所以這個吸毒的人他有車子有速度然後有駕照可是警察沒有資訊他什麼時候被撞他不知道現在我們第一線的同仁手拿的M Police的一個小電腦的一個系統它裡面不管是毒品的前科或者是高風險的毒價都有"},{"start":2917.424,"end":2931.597,"text":"那他有沒有去分級其實今天原警有對不對但是我今天希望做到是跨部會的處理譬如說交通部他在駕照的管理上面監理上面你們今天告訴我的是說行政院希望"},{"start":2933.398,"end":2960.549,"text":"獨駕是重傷撞死人吊銷駕照但是我們希望的是說可不可以不要在撞傷撞死人之後才去思考吊銷駕照我們其實在思考的是這個問題所以我剛剛一直講嘛我不是要這個人犯罪後被判多久我要的是家人能平安回家那你跟我講那個沒有用嘛對不對所以我還是希望警政署跟法務部跟交通部可以想辦法看怎麼橫向的聯繫建立起一個機制那"},{"start":2961.936,"end":2978.842,"text":"好 那交通部這邊我跟交通部這邊提一下因為今年宜蘭這邊有發生一件事情也是一個獨家23歲的年輕人他吸那個喪屍煙彈然後把一個宜蘭的優秀的女老師當場撞死而且連撞了七台"},{"start":2980.362,"end":2991.509,"text":"那我想請問一下一個有毒品紀錄 神志隨時可能不清楚的人他可以合法擁有駕照那目前你們對這部分有沒有什麼想法 有沒有什麼管制方式"},{"start":2992.715,"end":3016.792,"text":"跟委員報告那剛剛委員有特別提到說要跨部會合作的部分我想其實現在交通部跟包括警政署包括衛福部跟相關單位都還有法務部然後都有一個跨部會合作的機制那剛剛委員有提到源頭管理的部分其實我們現在針對只要是確認吸毒者就不見得要有毒價就是剛剛您提到的不要等"},{"start":3017.812,"end":3026.679,"text":"獨駕了以後才去事後亡羊補牢所以針對有吸毒者的部分我們就會做預防性的吊銷駕照那如果說他還是無照駕駛我們會加那你們預防性吊銷駕照這個東西有出來 有一套標準出來嗎我們後續 我們已經在修法目前還沒有我們現在已經在EME那個法案的修正"},{"start":3039.889,"end":3068.531,"text":"那我先跟交通部講這個就是我要的好不好我希望要有一個預防性的作為因為我今天我看到行政院給我各部會給我的報告都是事後那我今天要求的是拜託事前跟打炸一樣事前不要讓炸氣東西進來事前我們不要讓煙彈能夠或是用這些毒品的人可以輕易的去駕車我想這個是一個很重要的點這在麻煩你們一定要做因為我不希望今天的是一個國家都是一個太平間前面的政策啦"},{"start":3068.951,"end":3087.464,"text":"都是人撞死了那我們要怎麼補救怎麼判他重刑怎麼吊銷他駕照人民不是要這個我跟您保證人民都不是他只是要家人能夠平安的回來所以我希望拜託的是今天在場的各位為什麼請大家一起來主要我就是希望說我們跨部會研擬彼此資訊的交流"},{"start":3089.005,"end":3117.967,"text":"因為毒品的資料交通部可能沒有那這怎麼樣橫向的串接警政署法務部這邊法務部這邊他還有一些前科判決等等的資料警政署這裡可能沒有那麼完整所以警政署跟法務部也可以一起合作然後再跟交通部這邊跟衛福部這邊彼此勾結在一起然後讓一些人該讓他駕照要做政策性的要把他怎麼樣的管制請你們找一個方式出來給我"},{"start":3120.598,"end":3142.841,"text":"法務部你們這邊有什麼想法這個對毒品的這些的一個防治我想是各部會都要合作那法務部是主要是一個棄毒的機關那源頭的監理這部分我們是希望我沒有意見部長我沒有意見法務部是棄毒專案那我希望各部會"},{"start":3143.962,"end":3167.211,"text":"我剛剛提了這個部分麻煩你們在一個月內做報告來你看一下那個PPT上面有因為時間關係我不多說我希望朝這三個面向駕照風險分級強制限制的條件還有警政預警的系統我希望這幾個部分麻煩你們一個月內能夠給我一份報告然後做出這個橫向看怎麼做那將來我看了這個報告"},{"start":3169.232,"end":3191.437,"text":"我也是希望說能夠給予一些建議大家討論出來一個怎麼樣幫民眾預先控管好這件事不然我跟你說我們往前四年到現在每年都在暴增甚至暴增到兩百倍那今年一到三月已經遠高於去年的一到三倍所以我覺得這個不能夠再這樣下去了那我也跟衛福部這邊說明一個點因為"},{"start":3194.608,"end":3212.639,"text":"我們為什麼過往也有獨駕但是沒有像現在這麼嚴重這麼誇張因為過往我們都知道嘛海洛因你可能要用針頭要用錫箔紙那個安非他命他可能要用那個水車所以他在使用的時候他沒有辦法一邊開車一邊用但是現在因為電子菸這個載具變成是拿來"},{"start":3215.501,"end":3239.094,"text":"使用這些煙彈的一個很方便的器具導致他一邊開車一邊用過往傳統的食用毒品的器具讓他不便於一邊開車一邊用但是現在的讓他便於這樣所以這個電子煙載具的管理這個也要麻煩你們要做到我也希望說你們做到這三件事也是看我PPT上面就是說你還是要修這個煙害防治法還有"},{"start":3239.554,"end":3259.754,"text":"那個地方的毒品跟介營醫療這個你要把依託名職納入專案的追蹤還有一些合法條件下面把一些高風險的資訊真的要跟其他的單位要做一些橫向的管制這可以做到嗎好的 謝謝委員 我們會做到好 那麻煩你們這個部分一定要做到然後"},{"start":3261.493,"end":3280.086,"text":"好 那這個也麻煩你們一個月內給我好不好好 那最後我還是希望一件事啦就是說我們跨部會把這個事情處理好這個不是地方政府單一地方政府就能做我知道地方政府他可能在衛生局等等的上面還是可以做一些事情但是"},{"start":3281.67,"end":3305.435,"text":"我今天在提的這個是要從中央層級去管理橫向跨部會把這個處理好那才有辦法預防今天我只能很遺憾的跟各位報告跟國人報告行政院今天給我的資料都是事後彌補的東西所以我說那個叫太平間前的政策它不是一個真正能夠有效預防獨家的政策再麻煩四個單位能夠幫幫忙"},{"start":3309.577,"end":3314.041,"text":"國人的生命 拜託大家要一起來以昌生為念好 謝謝各位好 謝謝吳委員那接下來我們請陳昭之委員發言謝謝主席 有請鄭部長好 有請鄭部長"},{"start":3337.087,"end":3354.586,"text":"民眾黨已經提出了獨家修法的一個版本我們也很樂見防務跟我們的方向大概就是一致的一方面就是行渡的提高另一方面就是沒收交通工具因為沒收交通工具想至少可以阻嚇他們再度上路"},{"start":3357.049,"end":3376.363,"text":"當場就不能再繼續開然後再度上路的機會也降低但是我想先請教部長部長您預計大概提高的刑度可不可以簡單講就是說獨駕然後致死獨駕這個致死或重傷您預計提高的刑度大概是什麼情況現在那個獨駕跟那個"},{"start":3379.122,"end":3400.467,"text":"獨家的跟酒家現在我們要給他脫鉤的一個處理脫鉤處理那個獨家就整個抽出來另外再做一個目前還沒有預定的這個行動預定行動我們有修正草案那修正草案單純的獨家本來現在是三年以下你講新的就可以了那我們現在是說能夠提高在五年以下"},{"start":3402.288,"end":3420.126,"text":"那個駕車如果說駕車重傷重傷的本來是1年以上7年以下現在會提到3年以上10年以下重傷的那部分那致死的致死的這部分本來原來是3年以上10年以下我們預計是研修室修正廠是5年以上12年以下那並克300萬的一個罰金"},{"start":3422.008,"end":3447.167,"text":"那另外還有 還有就是說有以前有獨家的前科10年內再犯 再犯的話這種的致重傷是5年以上12年以下 如果萬一有致死的話就無期徒刑了無期徒刑 好了解 謝謝部長但是還是比民眾提出的版本還低但是法務部的報告裡面其實有三大終極目標你當然只有三分鐘時間可以報告那其中有一個就是溯源斷根"},{"start":3448.468,"end":3459.895,"text":"就是斬斷毒品的供應鏈這個是我給予肯定啊 部長你說我這麼惡劣你李佳豐教授近日他也指出他現在寫文章指出來政府當然不能只管這個毒價部分因為他應該要徹底了解到底儲品從哪裡來"},{"start":3464.298,"end":3479.283,"text":"他覺得政府有絕對的責任告訴民眾到底這些毒品的來源是什麼而且台灣政府以以為榮的大數據分析他認為應該利用這個大數據分析去想哪些人是高風險的吸毒者"},{"start":3480.603,"end":3487.388,"text":"誰是哪一些人會容易去吸毒然後以及這個是誰在賣誰在販售呢這從源頭阻斷永遠永遠就是比事後的這個處罰有效所以我想請教部長你們現在的溯源是只追這個追查伊托米紙的這個原料嗎伊托米紙酸嗎這個供應鏈嗎是這樣嗎那你打算如何要斷掉斷絕這些違法進口的原料啊還有毒品呢現在初步的做法是怎麼樣"},{"start":3509.72,"end":3525.807,"text":"我想委員這是提出一個正確的方向那的確因為這個毒品一定是有限區的原料麻煩部長簡單的回答你的對象是什麼是伊托米子還是伊托米子酸伊托米子酸跟伊托米子在6月17號我們就會提到讀審會來做"},{"start":3530.388,"end":3542.373,"text":"一個列為一個管制的一個物品一坨米子酸那另外另外那個一坨米子這部分要提供我簡單問一句話你有信心嗎這部分我們全力管制斷絕有信心嗎這部分我們全力以赴我們這個整個六大系統我們現在全力在追緝這個信心毒品一坨米子類的這些的專案查緝中那5月25號到6月底現在是專案在做一個查緝"},{"start":3555.939,"end":3581.627,"text":"不然我們來看一下電子菸2023其實全面禁止你看這個圖但是我在網路上我只要輸入五個字電子菸商店這幾個關鍵字馬上就可以買網購囉我就買得到喔那法務部在報告裡面有說要跨部會合作嘛這個當然是一定要這樣做還有完善多元的一個毒品防治的這個做法結果法務部跟這個樹花部的合作結果你看看我拍這個給你就不會不對"},{"start":3583.388,"end":3598.774,"text":"跟委員報告因為電子菸是當作一個食用新鮮土尤其是伊東米子類的一個載具那這部分的一個管制這是菸害防治法裡面的這個部分我想那個衛福部這邊是有一個修法的規劃因為這是源頭的部分嘛"},{"start":3606.236,"end":3633.143,"text":"那我再繼續講 當然速發部責任也很大啦衛福部 電子菸現在被利用為一顆米子的吸食工具嘛就是被利用新興毒品的一個載具剛剛那一條非常方便 比起以前的打針 鼻吸啦如果你不嚴格查緝的話今天有上次煙彈 以後有其他的毒品煙彈啦所以請問法務部 這個網站法務部或是衛福部或是速發部這個網站什麼時候要下架啊你隨時都買得到啊"},{"start":3634.645,"end":3654.626,"text":"什麼時候要下架報告委員那個網站的部分其實我們24小時都有在巡邏現在就有了等下你回去座位打打看看能不能買到當然現在我們還在跟衛福部合作用AI比較有效率的方式來整個雷達的掃射今天大家都在聽因為網路上包括過去很多這個這個"},{"start":3656.027,"end":3684.3,"text":"食安的問題等等網路上買就有了啦好 那在新的修法方面毒品更嚴重嗎我們也會要求網際網路平台要有一定的責任這樣子好 希望副署長你這個趕快等一下你去試試看看買不買得到好 謝謝那部長麻煩你看一下這幾張圖部長現在的電子菸外表真的是出塵入染這個眼花繚亂背著很手搖杯喔愛心吊飾還會發光發亮喔那這些外表看來不像傳統的電子菸很像玩具"},{"start":3685.12,"end":3700.231,"text":"一般人看也沒有什麼警覺性啊所以就為什麼我要請法務部特別嚴肅看待電子煙的問題因為他就入侵校園了嘛所以今天教育部也在場孩子們以為是玩具都拿來吸食那電子煙本來就是禁止的嘛"},{"start":3700.791,"end":3711.543,"text":"就算它裡面放了尼古丁也是禁止那可是目前被作為新興毒品的載具這樣孩子很有機會去接觸到這些毒品所以我想請問法務部你現在掌握到的這個電子菸的形態太陽你有掌握到嗎你覺得怎麼樣?這麼漂亮?這麼可愛?"},{"start":3719.03,"end":3744.242,"text":"跟委員包括因為電子菸那個結合的那個有那個喪屍煙彈等那個毒品的這些當然我們就是會全力來查緝我們有專案的查緝了那至於這個市售的這些這個不是我法務部全員但是我們會有關注我們跨部會跨機關的合作我們也是建議全職機關要取締這個電子菸但是查緝也要有對這個樣態有點跟上這個查緝因為目前各式各樣的"},{"start":3747.003,"end":3763.173,"text":"跟委員報告目前都是行政裁罰是行政處罰那現在衛福部他沒有言歷就是要把沿海那個對 吃不到毒品危害條例那這部分什麼事可以請教衛福部因為這部分這是衛福部掌握我們沒辦法幫衛福部來回答這個問題這個樣態的掌握可以嗎 副署長"},{"start":3769.149,"end":3793.638,"text":"衛福也要學啊 外面已經演化撩亂了這麼多的產品你們有跟上嗎的確電子菸它不是只有樣態它連在網路上的名稱都非常多元那就是變成說我們現在其實是在修法上會有一個持有就變成要有比較加重它的行政法的部分就是你們要跟得上這些變化現在的新興圖就是在變化中那我繼續請教部長"},{"start":3795.799,"end":3821.597,"text":"根據刑事法訴訟規定警察必須先問行為人你同不同意搜索同意了他才可以進到他的車子裡面去所謂無狀搜索沒有搜索票那如果行為人他拒絕車內的被搜索那警方就必須要生出一張搜索票可是點子也很小也很好藏啊那假設你疑似獨駕的話你有時候你要去找出你要查去他必須要搜索你要必須搜索這個動作出來"},{"start":3823.319,"end":3834.336,"text":"那在 但是在等待合法搜索的期間齁那這個狀況就可能獨駕啊 就有可能繞跑啊那請問 我想請問一件事 很確定的如果當場要生出搜索票你這個時間要多久"},{"start":3838.618,"end":3859.463,"text":"如果他不讓你搜索呢這個如果說我想這個是警察在一個執勤的一個勤務的一個是不是可以問請問多久我這個了解多久我立刻要刪除一張搜索票因為檢察官不會在第一線這是屬於在警察是不是可以問那個那總要有人想辦法啊你懷疑啊那看不到啊因為小啊很容易藏啊你不搜索找不到啊"},{"start":3861.987,"end":3877.68,"text":"我簡單講就大概要多久可以生出還是你們有一個比較加速的管道可以處理跟委員報告大概剛剛也有提到就是說如果他拒策那明顯不能安全駕駛的部分他用現行犯跟准現行犯來做一個逮捕"},{"start":3879.227,"end":3906.265,"text":"這一律當陷阱犯嗎 準陷阱犯不怕違法 可以抗拒就是說你們有辦法這樣做就是搜索票來不及的意思啦 對不對就是說他據測或者是這個明顯有這個不能安全駕駛的一個狀況就是陷阱犯跟準陷阱犯好 那再請教不少 被私用毒品被抓到了誰來決定是要進入觀察樂界還是說強制戒制呢就誰來做這個決定"},{"start":3908.907,"end":3917.135,"text":"跟委員報告那個案件如果說在已經由警方來移送給檢察官來偵辦那當然檢察官認定檢察認為有必要而且那個那個被告有意願我們會請那個醫療機構那個簽約的戒嚴的資格來做一個評估目前不是有個勒戒跟戒制嗎檢察官會做初步的處理"},{"start":3930.507,"end":3950.756,"text":"樂界觀察樂界現在比較少用現在跟委員報告我們現在最主要我們是多元的一個戒毒的一個處遇方案多元存在包括反起訴戒癮治療或者是社區的處遇因為2024年你看這法務部的報告有專家提出來說現行我們是存在停留在以刑法為主但不罰也不行但治療為輔的這個想法"},{"start":3952.617,"end":3973.619,"text":"那這個已經不符合國際成癮是個疾病需要治療的這種趨勢跟委員報告因為我們現在私用毒品這邊我們是它是有病人跟犯人的雙重的一個身份那現在我們那個多元廚藝的私用毒品的適合去做社區廚藝或者是戒癮治療的反起訴處分這邊已經高達了四成了"},{"start":3976.181,"end":3993.766,"text":"四成了那其他六成當然是不適合或者是因為他有一個沒有意願那這部分我們會再努力所以部長你是說已經有初步這些資料我可以隨時拿到這個資料這些四成的資料這個我們可以提供除了處罰以外但是就是治療是一個方向各位報告這個因為"},{"start":3995.186,"end":4014.474,"text":"我是我當部長我是非常重視這個多元廚藝的健治療因為的確是用刑法不是最唯一的一個手段希望這些吸毒者能夠復歸社會能夠把這些的吸毒的惡習的去除我想有很多的醫療的手段或社區或這些的輔導那我想這部分"},{"start":4016.895,"end":4020.679,"text":"委員是一屆出身我想這部分應該是很了解那這邊委員如果有我們會說提供資料給委員長 部長就是很多事情要應變包括衛福等等2024年其實五月底大概是我第一個去檢舉因為這個可憐的一個可憐悲痛"},{"start":4033.21,"end":4058.43,"text":"媽媽帶著高中兒子去去報警 那士林派出所不收 沒有辦法收案因為他根本連毒品都不是就沒辦法收 然後後來我就打電話給食藥署請他們先召開管制藥品管理 先把這個藥品因為它這是有症狀的藥品 是屬於可以醫療使用的先把它列為 列管然後法務部的這個毒品審查委員會他們也要趕快加速開會 而且不能夠規則開會 要加速緊急召開會議這個我們就是因為必要時召開 禮時召開的"},{"start":4060.291,"end":4081.906,"text":"所以我們在2024年從列入第三級後來到第二級還有公告時間要有彈性 以前你們公告時間要兩個月我說你只要多一天延長 那個很多孩子會受害所以就是說你們現在做很多彈性那我以這個來為例就是你們很多做法要一直能夠跟上這個現在的這個新興毒品的一些變化我們才有辦法做好這個工作 好嗎好 謝謝部長 好 謝謝主席好 謝謝陳委員"},{"start":4091.328,"end":4110.65,"text":"我們接下來請林沛翔委員發言好 謝謝主席我們今天要列席的官員非常多我們很多會員 跨委員會都來關心這件事"},{"start":4112.028,"end":4135.451,"text":"不過今天我要從四個面向來談這個毒價的事件第一個當然是有關刑責第二是新興毒品的列管第三個是校園的反毒第四個是電子菸的查緝那我在這邊要特別請相關部會在一個月之內提出書面報告針對各項政策目標跟執行進度跟統計數據以及修法規劃提出具體說明"},{"start":4136.312,"end":4153.538,"text":"三個月內提出跨部會改善方案跟年度績效指標六個月內公布執行成果跟檢討機制供立法院跟社會大眾檢視因為這件事情獨駕已經是在我們身邊所有的縣市全部都淪陷"},{"start":4154.358,"end":4169.117,"text":"我基隆就已經有很多不同的案例而昨天有一位彰化的分所長居然被獨駕的嫌犯撞了雙腳都被撞了然後那時候法院居然直接判獨駕的嫌疑犯交保"},{"start":4171.86,"end":4187.938,"text":"然後之後獨駕的嫌疑犯交保了之後居然還可以知道說分所長住院住在哪家醫院還送了兩個水果禮盒過去我覺得這實在是有點匪夷所思啦所以我這邊先想請教法務部有請政部長"},{"start":4192.418,"end":4204.189,"text":"部長近期政府在研議提高獨駕的致死刑責那外界看到的版本是提高到12年有期徒刑那我就請問這個12這個數字是比較怎麼來的是經過完整的社會討論還是經過開會後開到後面大家覺得12聽起來比較吉利"},{"start":4211.656,"end":4234.329,"text":"因為老實說現在人民最在意的已經不是刑責到底十年十二年還是十五年而是現在法律到底還有沒有嚇阻效果政府談土平問題常常講說戒癮治療社會復歸協導協導輔助老實講本席贊成本席不反對但是我也要提醒我們法務部吸毒可能是醫療問題"},{"start":4235.29,"end":4245.88,"text":"但是吸毒後開車上路就是公共安全問題不能每次討論毒品犯罪都只看到加害者的未來那請問像我們像這位"},{"start":4247.473,"end":4270.866,"text":"這個分所長算是一切順利 算是真的是天佑好人所以他是沒有更大的傷害但是那些被撞死的人 受害者他們的未來呢那些跟受害者家連相關的家屬他們的子女 他們有什麼想法人回不來了 那這些有些家庭的傷痛可能是一輩子"},{"start":4271.486,"end":4291.228,"text":"結果我們現在社會尤其是法務部這邊我都覺得很好奇就是說我們常常看到加害者到底有多少權利需要被保障這感覺很像什麼很像說有人有這個縱火犯把房子燒掉了那我們卻一直在討論縱火犯說晚上睡得好不好順序是不是有點顛倒啊"},{"start":4293.557,"end":4311.616,"text":"跟委員報告的確獨家致人死傷這個都一定要加重處罰那剛才委員有提到那個髒話的那個那個不是交保那個法官是給他無保請回那不是更扯嗎那這部分當然這部分我想我們警界跟警方跟我們檢察官對這種的我們認為這個一定要押押起來說已經抗告了"},{"start":4319.382,"end":4333.652,"text":"我必須在這邊重新再提一個我們一直在這個至少在這個這一屆我們提到的台灣明明還有死刑保有死刑制度但是社會上卻越來越多人認為法律寫在那邊是一回事會不會執行又是另外一回事"},{"start":4334.352,"end":4362.983,"text":"部長當人民已經開始不相信法律具有嚇阻力尤其在這個獨駕案件上面那這其實已經不是司法問題而是整體政府的治理信任危機喔所以我想請問一下正式請問部長如果加重刑責仍然無法有效嚇阻獨駕那如果守法的人每天都擔心成為下一個受害者那我想請問我們一直聽到一句話叫做獨駕零容忍到底保護了誰"},{"start":4365.84,"end":4389.677,"text":"我們對這個獨駕我們就是要嚴懲重罰啦那這邊我們除了剛剛我跟委員報告我們就是我想這個最終還可以判無期因為如果獨駕的前科實驗類再犯的話這可以我們已經提升到無期徒刑了那我想我們對這些防治獨駕的應該不是只有提高刑度這個手段那我也很關心的我們就是"},{"start":4390.237,"end":4415.289,"text":"有關獨駕的這些的動力交通工具不論是屬於是不是行為人的那個加案的我們的餘率我們就是要修法就是餘率要沒收那剛才委員有關心到就是是不是還可以開車還可以怎麼樣那我想這個交通部對這部分他有沒有做一個修法我認為他都願意開他都願意說開那個吸的毒品之後直接開車他應該不在乎有沒有這個駕照的問題了吧"},{"start":4417.15,"end":4436.942,"text":"我想這部分有一個嚇阻的一個作用那剛才那個陳兆之委也有提到就是說跟部長合同我剛剛在開始就開宗明義我們需要一個月內書面報告三個月內需要有版本六個月內我們需要看到成果跟評估報告這是法務部我今天針對不會只有法務部這個獨駕事件已經不是單純法務部的問題了"},{"start":4440.544,"end":4467.284,"text":"所以說這個法務部在中間一定是很重要的一環所以請部長務必把這件事情放在第一要位務必把這件事情放在第一要位好 謝謝法務部部長再來我要請教衛福部的食品管理署不知道副署長來了沒有還沒有的話那就只好請副署長來"},{"start":4472.267,"end":4490.052,"text":"部長請回好 再來請教我們衛福部的副組長近年來這個衣托彌子也就是所謂的喪屍煙彈氾濫如果不是立法院從2024年就開始追蹤本來是三級毒品2024年邱正軍委員特別個人提案把它升到二級毒品那現在"},{"start":4491.452,"end":4501.919,"text":"不能高興但是我們必須要肯定說行政院現在主動想把伊托米子放成一級毒品可見這個危害之列那我想請問是說具體時程是什麼"},{"start":4505.117,"end":4523.477,"text":"更重要的是說如果未來再出現新的化學結構毒品政府要多久才能完成列管半年 一年還是跟這個一坨米子一樣全台灣各縣市淪陷之後新聞都播了然後衛福部才知道要開始動作"},{"start":4524.744,"end":4551.963,"text":"報告委員 有關依托彌子的一級毒品的部分大概會就是follow法務部的毒品審議委員會的做一個結果所以還是回到法務部對 因為毒品審議委員會是在那邊老實講 我覺得我們算是公職人員我以前也帶過公家機關所以我知道我們跑公文的速度是其慢無比絕對跟不上毒品研發新品的速度"},{"start":4553.323,"end":4579.551,"text":"發熱集團更新產品的速度跟手機改版一樣的迅速但是我們政府列款這個毒品的速度有時候常常像等捷運施工一樣漫長老實說等到列管完成的時候市場可能都要下一代了所以我這邊要請問是否目前要建立所謂跨部會毒品的預警機制那如何縮短發現檢驗到正式列管之間的空窗級"},{"start":4583.513,"end":4610.37,"text":"我想我這問的問題應該蠻務實的吧有關新興毒品的這塊列管的話其實法務部在之前的話在他們去年已經有召開過新興毒品的一個篩選機制他那時候法務部去年在114年的時候召開會的時候已經有折承相關部會要叫國外的話就是有關聯合國那邊已經有列管所以最後面還是回到法務部對"},{"start":4612.915,"end":4636.498,"text":"好 那就希望說 因為我時間不夠 我還有兩個問題 部長請回我後面沒有問完的問題 我都要求書面報告回來答案而且我也要求說三個月內提出版本 六個月內提出工作績效出來因為這件事情全國都在看 我們今天在場錄影的時候也證明說全國都很關心這個議題"},{"start":4637.579,"end":4659.419,"text":"請注意,既然還是法務部為主軸的話,請不要讓大家覺得政府永遠都跟著毒販在跑,永遠都追不上再來我想請教教育部,教育部的代表應該是學前教育署的副組長"},{"start":4671.71,"end":4680.737,"text":"我們還是得談因為教育部主管年輕學子那毒品人口年輕化其實是很嚴重的"},{"start":4681.718,"end":4696.72,"text":"以前大家覺得毒品離校園很遠但是現在透過電子菸載具新興毒品離教室可能只有一個抽屜的距離我甚至有聽說過最小的國小就已經開始使用電子菸甚至裡面還有一坨糜子"},{"start":4697.581,"end":4721.46,"text":"那我想請問教育部目前校園反毒工作到底是在預防學生接觸毒品還是在學生出事之後才開始輔導那近三年未成年涉毒案件有多少學生首次接觸毒品的平均年齡是否持續下降那教育部已經掌握多少電子菸夾帶毒品進入校園的案例"},{"start":4723.443,"end":4743.691,"text":"跟委員報告 教育部目前的部分是從防治教育著手希望能夠從教育部分還有宣導能夠來全力提升學生對毒品的一個防患的意識還有老師的一個知能那目前在毒品的一個部分我們的這個掌握這個在未成年的部分大概"},{"start":4744.711,"end":4763.276,"text":"目前是透過這個電子醫院的載具確實是有一些量進到校園那這個數據我們在掌握的一個部分大概在毒品的大概有在高中以下大概是200案的一個部分只有200嗎對 高中以下的那個屬於是毒品的部分那電子醫院是比較多"},{"start":4764.556,"end":4786.162,"text":"現在最新的狀況就是警方已經逐漸使用所謂的唾液篩檢工具那校園端有沒有類似新興毒品的辨識機制呢老實說如果連老師都不知道說學生吸的是什麼那你要如何及早發現那如果連辨識工具都不足你又怎麼防堵毒品進校園"},{"start":4787.418,"end":4800.238,"text":"跟委員報告所以教育部也引進就是目前所採用的這個快篩破譯的快篩設計希望能夠及早能夠來發現學生已是有這個吸毒品的情形可以及早來做相關的輔導跟協助"},{"start":4803.43,"end":4828.443,"text":"老實講我們每年每一季都會看到有所謂的反讀教育可是老實講反讀教育如果說真的以反讀教育的成果來講的話其實蠻令人失望的蠻令人灰心的反讀教育不能只剩下宣傳海報跟反讀週活動否則學生對讀品最深刻的認知呢可能最後來自社群媒體而不是來自學校的教育對吧"},{"start":4829.775,"end":4855.661,"text":"跟委員報告我們也從課程中在健康與體育的課程中也有這個相關的一個教育那另外我們也全面的陸班的宣導那搭配就是其他的一個活動的一個行銷跟宣傳來讓學生能夠全面的了解以你們現在的可以跟我所以說我需要書面報告回應之外我還需要說三個月內提出新的版本六個月內我需要看到這個看到績效"},{"start":4856.661,"end":4872.299,"text":"我這樣講的很輕鬆的事情但是事實上來講對於全民這是一個有能的沒有失能的政府應該做出的態度好 謝謝教育部請回那在接下來我們就來談一個比較頭痛的事情"},{"start":4873.36,"end":4892.495,"text":"全國都知道電子煙是違法的全國都知道電子煙是違法的電子煙你也禁了三年但是為什麼還到處買得到那這邊可能要請衛福部、速發部跟警政署上台不好意思我問久一點"},{"start":4896.569,"end":4919.415,"text":"我不知道這個該是誰來回答不過我們驗定止言修法禁止已經到三年了但是民眾的疑問其實很簡單如果真的禁了為什麼到處都看得到走進校園桌邊看得到打開社群平台找得到加入族群買得到甚至比某些合法商品還容易取得請問這叫全面禁止還叫全面都看得到"},{"start":4920.995,"end":4947.944,"text":"報告委員的確在電子菸是禁止的沒有錯但是因為我們在整個法制上可能少了一個步驟就是持有必須要入法但是我們現在從源頭到流通到後面的查處其實大概一連貫都會跟各部會再合作那這樣子的話我想請問衛福部截至目前查獲多少案件裁罰多少件裁罰後是否有效的降低市場的流通"},{"start":4949.184,"end":4977.357,"text":"我們包括從現場實地查核還有一些網路查核我們大概罰了9.2億元左右了幾件不是說我要反罰多少件10788件可是到現在大家覺得好像電子菸越來越普遍甚至很多人已經開始把電子菸跟加熱已經搞混了我就覺得說我們的衛福部在這邊如果不再不盡點力的話老實說全民是有點辜負全民的期待的"},{"start":4977.984,"end":4995.596,"text":"再來請教速發部跟警政署現在電子煙交易大量透過Instagram Facebook跟Telegram還有LINE群組來進行那請問一下我們政府是不是有主動的巡查機制有沒有關鍵字檢測機制有沒有跨平台下架機制"},{"start":4997.742,"end":5022.615,"text":"法務委員我是素發部素產署我們原則上都有跟衛福部來做一個聯訪我們有一個聯訪平台所以現在是衛福部的問題衛福部要退到法務部沒有 這個我們有依照衛福部給我們的關鍵字做一個網路的一個巡查那在過去我們都有配合衛福部它提供的一些相關的關鍵字然後包含網路平台的巡查以及網站的一個關鍵字的一個巡查都有"},{"start":5023.632,"end":5039.43,"text":"有沒有下架機制?有下架過嗎?有,我們有一個DNSRPD的機制有下架下架了幾件?那現在是不是越來越猖狂?以毒品和電子菸來講分別是6000多件,2014年到2015年6000多件跟25000件如果針對一顆米紙呢?"},{"start":5041.119,"end":5062.991,"text":"針對依托彌子下架幾件?那你們下架之後是不是實質上有惡主現在?煙毒的話就是包含依托彌子大概是6666件,14年到現在那現在6666件,那現在為什麼說我們現在每一天都會聽到一個獨家案件而且每一天獨家案件都是有人受傷或有人致死的情況發生那請問你們覺得"},{"start":5064.111,"end":5078.784,"text":"他們最後出來的東西都是說我們從網路上拿到的不只是我剛剛講的Facebook跟Line甚至還有Thread現在我知道也淪陷了那我想請問一下你們6600多件你們覺得這樣成效是很好的嗎"},{"start":5079.748,"end":5099.82,"text":"包委沒有 我們這個都有在持續在加強在搜索比如說像從這個月六月開始到現在我們也下架了大概兩百多件配合跟衛福部國健署一起合作我會認為說我們不是只要知道你們下架幾件我們實質上要看到說這些東西越來越少讓人家拿到好 謝謝您請回"},{"start":5102.201,"end":5122.469,"text":"老實講這個毒品這件事情其實已經不是單一部會的責任了最近一天到晚就是有人受傷受重傷或出人命然後上了新聞然後我們現在政府才慢慢想補破網那剛剛我們也知道法務部法務部的速度可能不夠快可能有很多法規上的限制衛福部說法務部速發部說衛福部說法務部"},{"start":5124.403,"end":5152.686,"text":"我覺得這個如果沒有一個跨部會 行政院如果不跳出來來統整法務部 衛福部 速發部 交通部 教育部 海巡署各單位從源頭查緝 邊境阻絕 電子煙查緝 校園防治 防毒教育到戒癮治療 到獨駕執法的話你沒有建立這完整的防治體系 對不起我覺得一脫名職搞不好是我們除了詐騙之外 可能最新的國民的擔憂那這一件事情 老實講"},{"start":5154.724,"end":5175.429,"text":"政府則無旁貸我們都知道我不太希望再聽到什麼國家對什麼抗毒國家對防毒國家我希望聽到你們向毒品宣戰向喪屍煙彈宣戰因為現在已經全民都淪陷現在全國全縣市都淪陷了而且受傷的人不是只有單純的無辜的人連執法人員都受傷的時候其實這件事已經非常嚴重"},{"start":5176.469,"end":5187.521,"text":"當政府高喊獨駕零容忍的時候我覺得現在全民都覺得這只是個口號真正的零容忍不是只有家動行則而是要讓毒品進不來留不動藏不住更上不了路吧"},{"start":5188.809,"end":5213.54,"text":"所以如果說沒有一個跨部會的機制我剛剛講一個月專案報告我剛剛提出來的東西我想現在都有在記錄我希望一個月內就我剛剛回答所有問題的仔細專案報告三個月內要出來版本六個月內要出來要出來成效不然全民的信任就在這次的伊托米茲事件裡面對政府蕩然無存而且這個不是單純這不是黨派的問題這是政府到底是不是失能的問題好 以上 謝謝"},{"start":5217.605,"end":5218.747,"text":"好 謝謝林委員接下來我們請林倩瑾委員發言"},{"start":5236.905,"end":5251.515,"text":"謝謝我們主席翁昭瑋今天排了這樣一個主題的質詢先請這個法務部跟衛福部部長跟我想衛福部是現在是副署長嗎副署長到了嗎所以是食藥署對食藥署的副署長"},{"start":5259.37,"end":5270.989,"text":"還沒到好那就先請副組長吧是不是衛福部司長嗎還是衛福部司長就是看您待會要問是食管署還是心理健康司的司長"},{"start":5272.635,"end":5296.885,"text":"衛福部應該我們就毒品檢驗這邊應該是沒關係就麻煩就一起先上來好了對 等到看倩琦委員的提問好 那麼謝謝今天我們是針對毒價引起了整個社會的震盪然後針對我們在毒品的這個管理上還有這個道路安全上的這樣一個主題來就教各位"},{"start":5297.785,"end":5325.658,"text":"所以一開始今天大概幾個主題第一個部分是針對檢驗制度的一個精進然後第二個部分是我們如何在這個源頭管理上可以做一些防堵那最後呢是本系列關於關心有關於教育相關的這個議題那如何在學校這個部分也能夠提前來做一個因應所以第一個部分就是在一拖米子這樣的新興毒品那在制度上的問題"},{"start":5326.698,"end":5355.19,"text":"因為最近也因為這個依托彌子這樣子的一個毒價所造成的這個案件層出不窮那剛才幾位委員也有提到那現在市政制典執法人員都已經遭受這樣子的衝擊所以怎麼樣從這個提高毒品的級別還有加重刑責來做一個處理那這個是現在許多人都提出來的方式但本席正要提醒其中一個關鍵也就是第一線如果不能及時查驗到那違法者"},{"start":5356.03,"end":5380.048,"text":"本身呢根本認為自己不會被抓到那甚至呢即使我們提高刑責那麼嚇阻的效果還是大打折扣所以呢現在新興毒品的這個特性呢變化得非常快那麼流行的化學物質幾個月之後可能又被新的化學結構所取代那麼檢驗廠商很難投入大量的成本來開發免費的試劑這是一個很大的問題那剛才也有委員提到就是說這個"},{"start":5384.051,"end":5403.798,"text":"犯罪的手法常常讓我們整個執法面都追不上所以本席現在提的這點也就是所以這個免費試劑可能在開發的成本的一個限制下其實也追不上的情形那怎麼辦呢那很多新興的毒品目前其實沒有很成熟的免疫篩檢的一個工具"},{"start":5404.378,"end":5433.395,"text":"而是直接依靠這個意象層析串聯的這個直譜儀也就是LCMS來進行分析跟確認那本席要請教這個部分可能先請教衛福部那如果在法律或實務面仍然要求兩種不同的分析方法那麼來均衡所謂的陽性的一個處理那是不是因為靈敏度的限制來降低實質辨識跟吸毒者的能力那第二個部分就要請教法務部"},{"start":5434.235,"end":5461.636,"text":"那麼依托彌子的半衰期很短大概2到3個小時那有沒有可能應該是都出現過第一次驗尿的這個濃度高於法定值但是呢再一次採尿就已經低於標準值那換言之只要延遲了採檢就有可能從陽性變成陰性那麼這個部分是不是法務部跟衛福部已經就相關的這個議題有一些共同的檢討那麼依托彌子獨家案件從攔查送檢"},{"start":5464.279,"end":5483.153,"text":"採樣到鑑識的一個流程有沒有這種因應這種很快速代謝的一個特性那兩個部位也請你們共同說明那真正要提升伊托米子獨家的這個辨識能力有沒有可能檢討現在的法定預值還有採檢的時效跟檢驗平台的這個要求"},{"start":5483.593,"end":5505.401,"text":"尤其是針對半衰期比較短變化快的新興毒品還有包括本席剛才所講的那一段時間呢整個化學物質或結構面都可能取代我們現在所碰到的這個問題那你們如何因應未來的一個可能性那這個部分是不是先請衛福部法務部先個別回答然後共同回答本席剛才關心的可能牽扯到兩個部會的問題謝謝"},{"start":5511.961,"end":5525.757,"text":"委員好針對檢驗的部分我稍微說明一下現在毒品檢驗還是主要是三大鑑識中央的三大鑑識機關包括法務部調查局還有刑事警察局還有法醫研究所"},{"start":5526.678,"end":5548.599,"text":"那食藥署這邊主要是協助在認證實驗室就是在比較偏向民間的部分在民間實驗室的部分來補強就是說如果萬一中央鑑識的這邊量能比較不足的時候我們這邊也會盡量來協助民間實驗室取得認證所以本席剛才所提到的就是說那現在可能有因為"},{"start":5549.64,"end":5557.37,"text":"經費跟這個投入的研發的量可能不足那你們有沒有針對這個部分去了解我們目前民間的實驗室針對本席剛才所講的這個部分的一個問題"},{"start":5559.02,"end":5587.274,"text":"會 我們在民間實驗室我們也會了解他們的使用儀器他們的檢驗量能 他們能達到怎樣的程度所以我們在民間實驗室其實都有一致的標準所以針對這個部分 本席剛才講的這個問題你應該這邊有理解嘛所以就是說 最主要是毒的這個部分整個系統它其實速度變得很快那包括可能很專業的這些化學物質的這個變化取代性也非常高所以其實讓執法的這個部門也有相當程度的難度"},{"start":5587.794,"end":5612.964,"text":"不管現在是哪一個部會在處理基本上在檢驗跟可能發生的這個毒的一個取代性性性其實都是大家一個困難那是不是衛福部這邊除了你講的這個實驗室以外那目前本席所講的我相信在實驗室裡面或者是相關的這個單位都有這樣子的一個困境那是不是您就這個部分可以給本席更完整而且更專業一點的這個書面報告針對本席剛才所講的這個問題"},{"start":5617.967,"end":5640.707,"text":"其實大家應該是各部會其實在毒品的防治在檢驗的部分只要有發現就是有新型毒品的話那其實都有一個機制就是說是是是所以本席講的這個問題是如果已經有了那你是不是趕快給本席一個報告那如果未來有可能發生或者是現在已經在發生你們現在因應的狀況是如何對"},{"start":5642.048,"end":5667.207,"text":"那這個就請你把相關的報告送給本席的研究室讓本席來了解本席剛才所講的這個問題你們如何因應在衛福部的部分衛福部的部分我剛才已經也告訴你你們處理的那個系統是什麼但是本席所講的你就給本席相關的報告因應好嗎好 謝謝"},{"start":5668.228,"end":5675.288,"text":"好 謝謝 那法務部是不是針對你們的部分然後之後共同的部分也給本席做一個共同的回應 謝謝"},{"start":5676.628,"end":5702.185,"text":"各位委員報告那剛才委員關心的就是有關你毒品的尿液的檢驗的制度跟相關的育子的規定這當然是衛福部的權責啦那我們法務部的是偵辦那個犯罪那剛才委員有關心到就是在因為伊托蜜茲他那個那個很短那個很短那當然我們警方在執勤的時候發現到有查獲到這有毒價的一個我們一開始就會有一個快篩試劑去做一個檢驗"},{"start":5706.648,"end":5724.729,"text":"那個很快就會出來那同時也會做一個尿液的採檢那尿液的採檢當然這個要搶時間因為這個尿液採檢因為當場會就是做一個耐尿液的一個採檢那個避免那個時間那個整個一個藥效就消退掉了"},{"start":5725.35,"end":5751.995,"text":"那這部分我們其實因為現在獨家的私用的類型跟傳統的毒品還有伊東米子都有關因為有些是混合型的那我們當然快篩試劑的陽性的反應如果說含有傳統的毒品我們會請那個地方縣市警察機關針對陽性的那一種的毒品就快速的檢驗我們希望在24小時就檢驗出來"},{"start":5753.695,"end":5776.405,"text":"那個規定是這樣嗎還是我們現在是我們是全力衝刺啦因為現在一個大家對獨駕零容忍當然我們快速的一個機制我們試一下我們做一個協調在上週就台高就有邀請各大企圖系統喔遇到這一種的那個那個獨駕的話當然警方是用快篩試劑那有陽性反應我們馬上就是尿液用用"},{"start":5777.185,"end":5803.055,"text":"最快的速度我們搶時間去做一個請那個地方那個比如說民間的實驗室民間的這些的檢驗機構去做一個檢驗因為有三大的中央的一個實驗室還有15家的民間的一個檢驗機構我們是被搶時間那這部分我們希望能夠能夠嚇阻用這一套機能夠嚇阻這些獨家的一個行為然後生之以法"},{"start":5803.575,"end":5805.596,"text":"好的 謝謝部長所以本席剛才提到的你們還沒有共同的回應但是基本上就是你們個別的這個問題也就是說你們有這個 權管的部分我們現在就趕緊再做了對對對 所以部長您剛才有提到時間嘛本席這邊講的也是時間也就是說我們要能夠精確的檢驗出來"},{"start":5821.781,"end":5844.395,"text":"但是又要在搶在目前這個化學物質變化的一個半衰期當中他那個採尿應該很快我想這個警方可以去做這樣更精準的一個實地操作的一個報告所以基本上本席這邊提醒的就是說化學物質的一個處理或者是他的這個新興化學物質的一個取代性現在速度非常快"},{"start":5845.115,"end":5867.995,"text":"那但是在衛福部我們跟檢驗的相關單位或法務部在執法的這個部分那怎麼樣在時間的一個時間的這個窘迫性跟採檢的精確性裡面做一個處理更因應本席剛才講到的未來可能速度會越來越快所以怎麼去做一個處理這個是共同我們要面對的問題對不對"},{"start":5869.136,"end":5893.115,"text":"是 謝謝委員 那個剛剛這個有關檢驗的部分除了剛剛這個保護部提到警方除了快篩之外現在的一個檢驗量能它也有所謂的快速通道就是說需要快速檢驗的部分包括刑事警察局的一個檢驗還有保護部調查局以及這個法醫研究所這邊都有一個快速的一個檢驗的一個通道"},{"start":5894.316,"end":5921.042,"text":"好 謝謝 那是不是也把這個相關的你們這因應的一個措施給本席的研究室補一個書面的報告 好不好謝謝 因為各位我們補充 其實我們要搶時間因為尤其有致人 有死傷這一部分我們要搶時間因為這個牽扯到我們要生壓 要申請羈押所以我想我們檢警這部分我們是非常的積極努力因為決定我們要守護用戶人的安全對 所以本席所提醒的就是這個生命的一個安全"},{"start":5921.602,"end":5940.591,"text":"那提醒的最重要就是說可能我們無法預期到的這個化學物質的變化的取代性非常的高那未來可能這個部分兩個部分應該也都要注意好不好好謝謝那個衛福部請回那接下來也是針對法務部跟這個財政部的各個關務署今天關務署的代表"},{"start":5942.769,"end":5955.739,"text":"應該是我們組長嘛 組長好 那剛才本席在談到這個依托米子獨駕在第一線的查緝那麼採檢跟檢驗制度上那麼是不是能夠跟新興毒品快速代謝跟快速變化的這個問題但是"},{"start":5957.62,"end":5979.025,"text":"重點是如果前端原料進得來然後半成品做得出來後端再加重行則提高查緝其實大家都疲於奔命那目前的一個狀況是我們首度國內年初首度查獲了利用非劣管的化學物質依托米子酸來轉化製造二級毒品依托米子的案件"},{"start":5979.605,"end":5997.282,"text":"那這個案件查扣了伊脫米脂的成品 半成品 先驅原料跟各類的化學物質那總共那個量數也蠻多的 900多公斤 那麼市值也非常高 5億多元那這樣嚴重的問題呢 它就關係到新興毒品不是只有走私的成品喔"},{"start":5997.702,"end":6012.804,"text":"而是透過境外來寄送未列管的化學原料那麼在國內設廠來轉化成成品那麼在關務署的這個問題本身要請教的是那這樣的這個非列管的化學物質的進口後"},{"start":6013.785,"end":6036.578,"text":"轉化成毒品的這個模式那麼關物署是不是會同海巡署及物流業者來建立風險識別的這個機制例如對特定的收件人或是異常的頻率可疑的化學物質的一個名稱還有分批寄送的這樣樣態來進行一些處理那麼法務部的部分是在於那麼伊托米子酸不是列管的物質"},{"start":6037.538,"end":6046.698,"text":"但是它是製造的原料那麼法務部目前是不是有啟動毒品先驅原料的一個列管的檢討那這個部分是不是請兩個單位做一個回應"},{"start":6048.805,"end":6075.885,"text":"報告委員有關那個伊托米子酸還有其他的不明的化學藥品我們海關在邊境上查獲的時候只要我們拉曼測試剛才有講到伊托米子酸還有伊托米子還有相關的化學件少一個但是我們基本上那個拉曼的圖形還是會有顯現只要可疑的我們一定是送去化驗所以這個請委員放心那剛才說後面的物流呢這個情資的部分一直都是我們海關在做的以上簡單說明"},{"start":6078.484,"end":6099.474,"text":"謝謝那部長你們這個部分謝謝委員關心就是有關的伊多米子原料伊多米子酸這部分那我們法務部在6月17日會召開獨審會將伊多米子酸來來審查是不是列管為毒品來做一個審議那6月17號我們會審議伊多米子酸要不要列入毒品"},{"start":6100.434,"end":6117.12,"text":"所以本席這邊提醒一下啦因為這個物質最主要是它進來的時候它不是被列管的但是它卻又是未來的成品會製造的那其實本席剛才講的其他的這個問題也有可能在未來會發生也就是那個取代性然後新興的這個速度"},{"start":6117.66,"end":6136.559,"text":"所以可能兩個單位 法務部這邊也是比較辛苦的不是只有處理依托米子酸 而是目前列管的本席講的這個問題的一個制度面 整個系統面可能裡面都要一併做個考量 如果在會議上所以重點就是說 我們可能在原料端 物流端 跟製造端都必須要注意這個系統的這個問題"},{"start":6138.28,"end":6162.065,"text":"所以這樣才不會說我們處理了這個問題新的樣態又出來那麼這就會變成一直都追不上有一個預警的一個平台因為我們也會關心因為有一個聯合國的他有一些的1988年有一個公約國際公約就是他有列入一些的一些化學限制燃料或者新興的一個物質會不會被濫用他又會做一個有一些的"},{"start":6163.226,"end":6179.323,"text":"是不是給各國來做一個參考那我們也都會參考這一種所以我們其實我們類管的這些毒品我們730以上是全世界應該是最頂尖的最多的那我們高檢署有一個毒品先驅原料的預警平台事實上有各大"},{"start":6180.224,"end":6201.834,"text":"氣毒系統還有其他的部會都有參與就是去找出奇怪怎麼有一些的玄器顏料這些我們沒有列入毒品沒有做一個類管那這部分我們也會提案的方式會給或臨時多用的方式來做一個提案那來請各單位來做一個是不是來注意來追查"},{"start":6202.975,"end":6210.867,"text":"他來監控是不是要來提供毒品來列管為毒品我想我們現在都有這些的預防機制這個我們會做一個書面的補充"},{"start":6218.359,"end":6232.014,"text":"謝謝所以如果6月17號你們要開這樣一個會或許可以把這樣一個概念也放進去在提案上面也做一個討論是謝謝那最後是那兩位請回那個教育部應該是司長司長"},{"start":6241.817,"end":6264.969,"text":"我們剛才也講到其實本席比較注重的是整個系統性的這個問題所以剛才我們有前端然後最後端呢也不能說最後端也就是說事實上如果能夠從學校方面就來做一個處理那至少大家對於讀這個義士在學校就有所謂的教育層面那剛才您其實在回應其他委員的問題喔也提到這個教育層面也做一些宣導但本席這邊講一個比較實際的這個問題"},{"start":6267.33,"end":6289.692,"text":"那麼在這個防堵新興毒品來進入校園本席要提到的是第一線人力的負荷問題第一線的人力是不是足以負荷那目前呢這樣一個毒品都已經透過網路或同儕來流進校園剛才委員提到基本上在所有的這個網路上各個平台現在都已經看得到"},{"start":6290.433,"end":6310.686,"text":"那教育部現在除了尿液篩檢那你們也有唾液快篩這個部分本席支持但本席要提醒制度的設計不能只增加了學校的責任也要增加現場的人力我想這是整個教育目前的困境也就是現在的緣和編制高中這個高級中等學校"},{"start":6311.727,"end":6332.715,"text":"有班級的級數住宿人數跟人力的一個規定那麼國民小學跟國中也有班級編制跟行政人員配置的規範但是呢國中面臨的青春期還有電子菸新興毒品校安通報輔導轉介的壓力目前的整個負擔都已經接近了高中值那本席要請教"},{"start":6333.615,"end":6346.102,"text":"那未來學校如果做這相關的篩檢然後跟特定人力的一個追蹤那麼家長的這個通知然後校安通報後續的輔導那這些工作最後誰要做"},{"start":6348.966,"end":6367.521,"text":"跟委員報告目前確實是都是由生教組長相關的一個編組在做這些相關一個在做整個程序的處理那市長你不覺得這個只要社會一有問題然後所有的這個負擔都是第一線的行政人員甚至有許多老師都要兼著"},{"start":6368.382,"end":6392.298,"text":"如果原額上還有一些編制上還有這個財力上都沒有擴展的話那請問怎麼去因應這些這麼多元的這個問題那教師現在連這個很核心的這個問題基本核心的這個教職教師的核心能力其實都已經面臨了很大的一個挑戰我想你們應該都知道嘛現在我們今天處理的是讀的問題可是教育現在問題包括老師都苦不堪言那我們怎麼去處理這些"},{"start":6398.802,"end":6411.554,"text":"新來的這個議題那我本席所講的剛才那些應有的這個支持如果都沒有的話那我們怎麼如何在第一線來協助整個社會來防堵校園被毒品所氾濫"},{"start":6413.228,"end":6419.713,"text":"跟委員報告就是目前的多一塊賽是多一個輔助的工具那我們後續還是會把這些相關的一個SOP相關的一個作為把它做好希望能夠讓現場來做相關的參用那對於人力的部分就針對讀的這件事情多一個輔助的工具但是人沒有變多錢也沒有變多所以本席在這邊建議教育部應該同步檢討國中學務人力的這個"},{"start":6437.568,"end":6462.766,"text":"配置讓國中可以比照高中值至少每六班增加一名學務或相關資源人員的一個方向現在學校要處理的問題太多啦社會太多的問題那整個學校的網絡還沒有準備好就要去因應社會需要學校來處理這個問題所以你們真的應該全面來處理跟檢討學校人力還有資源相關的一個配置不是只有東西丟下去"},{"start":6463.086,"end":6478.864,"text":"然後大家就自然而然就會了或自然而然就能做了我想這個部分對大家的負擔都非常多所以是不是可以請你們再評估一下唾液快篩特定人員的追蹤那學府相關的這個單位要負擔多少"},{"start":6479.324,"end":6505.139,"text":"工作的這個增加另外呢那麼國中學務人力的配置希望比照高中值那最後反讀的責任不能都壓在教師身上那請教育部要針對這整體的系統去做一個處理跟檢討好嗎謝謝好謝謝謝謝委員不好意思最後呢相關的這個報告可在兩個月之內精進的報告兩個月之內送到本席的辦公室研究室好不好好謝謝好的謝謝"},{"start":6507.625,"end":6515.751,"text":"好謝謝林建傑委員的報告那接下來要說明接下來我們請那個張雅琳委員質詢好謝謝那我們先請衛福部國健署"},{"start":6538.933,"end":6540.473,"text":"好 請副組長你好我想就是說這是這份報告你現在看到的這一個簡報我們就非常清楚的可以看到歷年國中學生或者是高中學生使用電子菸的一個狀況這還是你們有掌握到的部分對不對好 那因為我們現在最重要是因為我們要"},{"start":6568.208,"end":6591.765,"text":"在上個禮拜吧我們在院會的時候我們有提到說我們現在會把會修這個煙害防治法把持有電子煙這件事情納入行政法嘛那因為我們現行其實是只有並沒有罰這個持有的部分那我想問就會有一個問題就是說現在我剛剛現在這個簡報上面的這三種要怎麼認定"},{"start":6593.446,"end":6605.277,"text":"會有認定的問題因為第一線執法人員他要怎麼去認定這件事情那特別是說我們過去呢也沒有說不能持有嘛所以這個接下來我想第一個是認定的問題第二個是說"},{"start":6607.34,"end":6629.485,"text":"因為過去沒有那他過去持有的那接下來該怎麼辦報告委員當然因為我們現在還要牽涉到修法系部的討論那原則上因為電子鹽本身在12年的時候陰害罰他就是違禁品他本來就是不該持有是沒錯但是因為當時沒有罰所以的確我們大家都非常清楚剛剛光看學生都有在持有了是"},{"start":6630.585,"end":6644.899,"text":"對 那但是因為過去沒有罰 現在要罰這是一個問題然後另外一個就是說 到底現在簡報上面寫的含有煙油 僅有空磷件這些要怎麼認定嘛所以是不是可以請就這兩個部分來回答那我們靠近麥克風一點 聽得比較清楚不好意思"},{"start":6646.08,"end":6670,"text":"如果是這樣的話就是基本上它如果是查獲學生手上持有的話應該是原則上應該是都是不行的如果是它僅有煙油或是空離間它應該都是算是電子煙的整個它就是它那個零件就是載具嘛那煙油煙彈它本身就是就是一個不能夠持有的整組的設備是都不應該持有的所以"},{"start":6671.241,"end":6675.204,"text":"基本上聽起來就是我現在寫到的這個部分我們通通都罰就對了目前原則上是這樣對 但是因為法律有一個不溯及既往的原則嘛 對不對那該怎麼辦呢因為過去持有是不罰的嘛 那你現在要罰對吧 這個我覺得這個因為我們新增人民的義務與處罰的範圍"},{"start":6692.456,"end":6697.359,"text":"是所以這部分的話我覺得如果我們沒有去做應該這樣簡單來講就是說我們之前在槍炮彈製彈藥刀械條例的時候我們當時也有去講就是說可能模擬槍操作槍我們有給大家一點時間來去申報然後"},{"start":6707.765,"end":6722.411,"text":"對 所以我覺得這個部分我們是不是也可以往這個方向來去研議呢因為畢竟過去真的沒有那再就像法律不溯及既往的原則我覺得這個還是要去來考量那再來第二個部分說我們個人持有跟商業持有的部分我覺得也是要來"},{"start":6723.932,"end":6738.979,"text":"有一些配套措施啦因為個人持有相對比較簡單但是商業已經持有的部分你又該怎麼處理商業如果它涉及製造輸入原則上是重罰但是它持有的部分就它之前已經進口了一批"},{"start":6740.56,"end":6757.385,"text":"因為之前也有人搬家嘛對不對各種案件的形式來把它帶進來嘛如果是從輸入端的部分當然陸海空我們跟海巡署什麼都有財政部這邊都有合作那些大概都是盡量從上游端供應端就先攔截了啦"},{"start":6759.807,"end":6774.062,"text":"對那另外就是剛剛謝謝委員的提醒就是其實沒有錯就是我們可能要增加所謂的宣導期對因為有就是有一些過去就持有的部分的確是沒有被罰的對我覺得這部分可能要考慮一下好那好謝謝你喔那接下來我們請教育部"},{"start":6780.513,"end":6805.353,"text":"哈囉 誰 委員好很低一點好了 低一點好 那徐特斯嘛 對不對好 那徐特斯我想請教一下就是說因為我們現在是有講到有這個唾液快篩嘛 對不對但是因為其實大家過去在詢問的時候呢就有考 當時就其實有提出來就是用藥液篩檢面對依托明指這種半衰期比較短的其實基本上是抓不到但是當時你們的回覆是說因為呢 這個"},{"start":6807.114,"end":6833.806,"text":"因為法規上當時只有尿篩執行的規定並沒有唾液快篩的一個規定所以如果我們現在要做唾液快篩的話你們接下來是不是就要來去修法呢因為看起來你們過去在這個尿檢的部分是因為讀為防治條例嘛33條之一沒有訂定嘛所以有法源依據嘛那你們現在要如何處理校園唾液快篩的法源依據呢"},{"start":6834.448,"end":6861.474,"text":"跟委員報告就是確實是來自獨維條例所以目前是先建議法務部要修獨維條例然後增加拖曳快篩的這樣一個管道然後我們也會在我們的執行要點也會再增加相關的一個執行的作業所以你們是會另外制定一個要點嗎因為你們現在的要點是尿液篩檢及輔導作業要點你們是要在這個要點上面去做修正還是你們要新增一個要點"},{"start":6861.954,"end":6879.228,"text":"跟委員報告我們會在這一個要點去修正就是增加就是不限尿液那接下來請一下法務部因為剛剛有提到就是說這還是要修讀委條例啦但是我看你們現在的說法上面我下面有看到這一個板你們要修這個讀委條例所以可不可以請部長回應一下我們有沒有要修讀委條例"},{"start":6883.098,"end":6902.165,"text":"我們現在原理可以修那個獨尾條例33條他那個尿液現在是一個只有尿液而已所以這個部分的話我想問一下所以你們現在因為之前是說會修1853嘛對不對然後現在也是會修獨尾條例嘛對不對那還有什麼條還有什麼法案會在這一次一併來修整呢"},{"start":6903.005,"end":6931.713,"text":"就是一個獨委條例跟那個以本部來講的話獨委條例跟那個刑法就我說這兩個嘛刑法好喔好喔了解那大概現在進度作業是什麼可以跟我們講一下目前那個跟委員報告現在整個一個那個全面因為因應這個獨家這個全面提升就是一個刑法的一個刑度還有那個義務沒收等等這些我們會在我們近日會送到行政院一個一個審查"},{"start":6932.389,"end":6934.951,"text":"近日等於是說這一兩週對不對我想在本週內本週是這兩個剛剛講的這兩個法會一起送嗎因為這東西要配套不然你們九月怎麼上線啊"},{"start":6944.538,"end":6965.066,"text":"讀委條例這份修法因為這是我們會盡快來處理那因為他那個那個獨家那部分我們這一周會送行法我知道因為你們之前一直在講行法但是因為教育部說九月就要上這個唾液篩檢那九月要塞你們要上那你們的時程上面呢彼此現在是有默契嗎彼此知道嗎"},{"start":6967.182,"end":6972.984,"text":"這個事有經過討論過了我們盡快來研修那教育部你們這邊你們自己的尿液的這個輔導作業要點呢你們大概什麼時候會修完跟委員報告我們目前已經都在進行討論了那預計會在7月以前"},{"start":6991.591,"end":7007.619,"text":"7月以前因為現在看起來你們是要在學校裡面執行嘛對不對還要跟學校溝通還要跟各縣市這樣應該說你們要跟各縣市教育局溝通各縣市教育局要再跟學校溝通你9月要上線你7月之前一定要完成不然你應該是完全來不及是"},{"start":7008.7,"end":7023.579,"text":"那我想問一下就是說因為基本上呢我們之前在憲法這個四大法官解釋裡面釋字第五三五號當時就有去講到說警察臨檢他有一個重要原則就是國家不能不分時間地點對象任意臨檢或是隨機檢查"},{"start":7026.923,"end":7035.352,"text":"所以呢我想是不是在這一次你們在我看你們的說明是說你們是根據尿液一樣嘛就是有特定高風險的部分你們才會去做篩檢嘛對不對好那所以如果是這樣子的原則的話剛剛就聽到說是生教老師會來生教組長會做這件事情不過因為"},{"start":7044.222,"end":7064.516,"text":"其實對於學校來說我想大家都非常清楚知道行政工作真的非常多所以剛剛其實林倩琪委員也有關心是說我們怎麼樣給學校第一線的支持這個部分我也希望剛剛有要求你們要一個報告這份報告也要提供給我因為我也想要知道我們到底如何的來去避免學校的工作負荷過大"},{"start":7065.99,"end":7074.915,"text":"那再來一個部分最後一個問題想請教教育部就是說如果今天學生拒絕拖曳篩檢呢學生或家長反對的話那該怎麼辦"},{"start":7076.124,"end":7080.428,"text":"跟委員報告就是如果像之前在獨維條例的一個規範是確實是如果已經納入特定人員名冊這一類的對象是其實是不能拒絕不過在教育部的一個作為我們還是會積極溝通可能請家長然後可能請我們相關可能跟老師還有跟家長同事的溝通那看看是不是能夠藉由這樣的一個方式能夠盡量能夠來配合"},{"start":7100.247,"end":7125.058,"text":"好我想這部分還是要一個明確的流程啦要提供給學校因為不然我覺得就會變成學校面對家長反對家長到時候又再去找1999找政治人物明代去關心的時候大家現場的壓力很大所以我覺得一個明確的做法這樣才能夠去保障老師跟家長在溝通的時候大家彼此的分際是清楚的好不好好謝謝那最後我想要請問一下速發部"},{"start":7137.922,"end":7156.192,"text":"蘇發部好蘇發部就是說我在你們的書面報告裡面有看到說你們有建立一個網路平台刊登或為售販售違法商品下架處理聯防平台然後呢從113年11月到115年的5月底已經召開了7次的會議處理了至少58項部會提案"},{"start":7159.634,"end":7179.28,"text":"也有透過各部會提供關鍵資料平台自主掃描然後看起來我們也是有採訪了相關的平台我想問一下因為現在其實大部分的交易特別是學生的交易其實透過社群平台"},{"start":7179.84,"end":7203.724,"text":"他已經不僅是透過電商所以我想問一下是說我們現在做的這個AI巡查有沒有針對社群平台的貼文廣告公開帳號短影的內容做審查因為我想大家應該都有看到這部分是有的嗎是 報告委員我們今年會開始來做這個部分的掃描什麼時候開始7月底以後會限制完成"},{"start":7204.583,"end":7219.685,"text":"7月底會建制完成那我想問一下因為我們過去在這個打詐的領域呢也有開發這個詐騙樣態分析和防詐雷達那把過往的詐騙案件整理成風險樣態再用AI模型去掃描網路廣告跟電商廣告"},{"start":7221.007,"end":7247.052,"text":"好那過去呢在打詐的領域呢也不是平台自稱有做就好而是你們其實有詐欺防治計畫風險管理機制還有查驗記錄透明度報告所以你們也是可以抽查跟要求他們提供資料所以我想問一下針對於這次的毒品我們是不是也有做類似的可能像是什麼毒品與含毒電子菸暗語啊資料庫啊因為這個暗語是一直不停在變化這部分是有做類似的"},{"start":7248.137,"end":7258.642,"text":"報告委員那個打炸部分是因為炸防條例有相關的一個法律依據那至於毒品的部分就要看相關的規定相關的法律有沒有相關規定但是本部都可以配合來協助"},{"start":7259.755,"end":7284.27,"text":"好 意思就是說如果主管機關有相關的法律速發部可以來配合就對了 是那是不是速發部也可以積極的來跟主管機關溝通這件事情呢好不好 因為你們在現場就看到了這樣子的問題嘛我們是不是 既然你們也成立了這個跨部會的這個溝通的協作平台嘛是不是也可以主動的來提出這樣子的問題呢是不是也可以 可以 我們都可以配合"},{"start":7285.206,"end":7310.258,"text":"我是說我現在不是說你配合我希望你可以主動的去提醒他們可以嗎可以好那另外一個部分就是說如果同一個平台反覆的出現販售喪屍煙彈含毒煙彈那平台接貨主管機關通知之後並沒有立即下架我們現在是有權利要求平台限期改善的嗎報委你就看那個作用法有沒有這樣規定"},{"start":7311.434,"end":7330.031,"text":"作用法有沒有這樣子的規定譬如說上詐騙的話他依照詐毀條例他是一定要下架如果沒有下架會被裁罰好所以這看起來是衛福部嗎對不對是衛福部那衛福部這個應該是食藥署吧對吧這個算食藥署嗎還是電子鹽應該是國健署那國健署呢我們現在是不是有"},{"start":7336.98,"end":7360.254,"text":"目前我們其實跟網就是像剛剛委員說的社群媒體類還有一些是電商品電商品因為已經實名制所以進入沒有但是現在就在社交平台對那社群媒體的比如像Meta Family就IG FB那些的部分我們現在其實有頒布一個就是善良管理人的注意事項那其實他們的下架比例也是高只要我們有掃描到大概下架比例也是高達99.7對"},{"start":7363.016,"end":7377.986,"text":"所以你們現在是已經可以要求他們平台限期改善了是嗎對兩個工作日內所以如果他沒有改善的話呢我們的處罰是什麼沒有改善的話我們也是有罰還也是有行政罰還也是會有行政罰還就對了對OK好謝謝"},{"start":7384.122,"end":7398.629,"text":"好 謝謝張雅玲委員那麼在省發會委員質詢之前我先做一下會議程序的宣告稍後再需曾委員詢答完畢之後我們就休息五分鐘好 那接下來就請曾委員好 主席 我們請曾部長好 請部長"},{"start":7415.303,"end":7437.51,"text":"委員好部長好我想這個近期這個獨家問題這個我就收這一個月網路上找這一個月就這麼多起不同的這都是不同的事件那這個我想這個獨家問題這個造成國人的這個高度大家高度的關注"},{"start":7439.531,"end":7456.77,"text":"這個我們也事實上我們在立法院內政委會6月3號也排過有關於這個獨家的專案報告各委員會都有要安排那我們行政院也很快的在上個禮拜四6月4號我們行政院院會就"},{"start":7457.651,"end":7469.274,"text":"就這個來面對這樣子的民意很快在6月4號就做了一個政策的重大的政策宣示這是打擊毒價的一個重大政策宣示那"},{"start":7471.648,"end":7488.039,"text":"這個行政院院會的報告裡面大概就是提到說從源頭的嚇阻強化茶器跟這個重懲獨駕三個面向來進行那我們看這三個面向有很多的部會都要來負責所以獨駕打擊獨駕這個是非常多部會跨部會必須要做的事情但是"},{"start":7488.579,"end":7503.137,"text":"只有我們法務部一個部會是從源頭嚇阻到強化查緝到重整獨駕我們法務部全部三個這三個領域全部法務部都要負責所以可以說法務部確實是這個這個我們未來要遏止獨駕的一個一個關鍵性的一個機關"},{"start":7506.738,"end":7522.268,"text":"那當然排這樣的酒駕大家看到這麼多新聞我們在排這個委會大家都就最簡單的在爭論節目就可以仔細說我們政府什麼都沒有做啊我們政府過去的毒價這麼嚴重政府什麼都沒有做 但事實上"},{"start":7523.894,"end":7533.964,"text":"事實上我們針對這個獨家的部分我們政府事實上從過去到現在是一直在做這個獨品它的散布的速度跟它擴張的速度"},{"start":7539.389,"end":7562.97,"text":"我們目前還可能政府還跟不上所以這個我們才會有這個6月4號這樣子的一個重點的打擊獨駕的一個重要宣示但是我們事實上過去我想我們在其實在這個所謂獨駕這樣子的犯罪太陽歷史其實很短以前沒有人吸毒開車的以前沒有以前都是酒駕以前酒駕以前吸毒開車但很少很少吸毒的人不會開車會躲在廁所"},{"start":7564.071,"end":7585.351,"text":"然後躲在自己房間裡面吸毒,吸完毒也不敢出來怕被警察抓真正開始有這個毒價是大概二十幾年的時間我們事實上我們的這條法律我們的這個過去並沒有所謂的這個過去其實它是叫做罪態駕駛罪罪態駕駛罪就是我們的這個"},{"start":7589.8,"end":7598.825,"text":"這個刑法第185條這個過去是說叫墜胎價是只有喝酒而已那現在他到1999年才第一次納入"},{"start":7600.129,"end":7620.825,"text":"這個毒品駕駛 毒品駕駛修法 那時候修法才第一次納入1999年 因此從聚胎駕駛變成不安全駕駛罪1999年之後一直到現在 我們看事實上已經經歷七次重大的修法每一次修法重點是什麼 就是第一 就不斷地增加 加重他的刑責"},{"start":7621.846,"end":7648.068,"text":"他的刑責從最早的一年以下到兩年以下到三年以下在五年內的再犯條款到最後再犯條款延長到十年內他的罰金也從三萬提高到二十萬到三十萬到再犯的三百萬可以說我們在短短這幾年內七次修法事實上不斷地在加重獨家的刑責"},{"start":7650.991,"end":7666.919,"text":"這樣子的修法跟我們政策會看到我們的政策這不只我們法務部啦我們行政院各部會我看速發部這個交通部啦內政部警政署衛福部認證等等這些這些我們各個部會事實上像現在大家所關心的這個所謂喪屍煙彈這個"},{"start":7672.225,"end":7694.88,"text":"這個伊托米茲這喪屍煙彈事實上它真正在台灣市場它原本是一個麻醉藥品一個麻醉藥品它真正在毒品市場上面竄起大概也是2003年以後的事情大概只有三四年的時間而已短短三四年的時間它變成這麼容易取得變成這麼造成這麼嚴重普遍的社會關注我想這個"},{"start":7696.38,"end":7713.917,"text":"我們但是這三四年的時間也不是政府說什麼都沒有做我們把原來一吐一吐米子我們也從2004年開始把它列為第三第一次把它列為毒品列為第三級毒品然後後來提升為第二級毒品這一次這個我們行政院宣誓要把它"},{"start":7714.477,"end":7740.271,"text":"六月十七號 獨省會我們要開會我們希望六月十七號獨省會如果能夠通過的話會送行政院來公告希望六月十七號能夠把它列為一級獨品就從三級獨品所以就這樣子其實在三年的時間三年多的時間也就是說三年多的時間伊兔米子它在台灣社會危害的程度它的速度擴散的速度超乎我們政府的想像"},{"start":7740.953,"end":7767.611,"text":"那我們現在要做這些亡羊補牢的措施我覺得行政院那天所開的這個說明會我們院會之後的這個說明對說明其實說明得相當清楚從源頭到這個取締到事後的這個刑罰刑罰的加重都講了但是我們這是司法法治委員會啦我們這不是政論節目所以這裡面我們有一些這個行政院所宣示的這些政策"},{"start":7771.293,"end":7791.782,"text":"法治上面我們要怎麼處理首先剛才前面也有委員提到我們在我們的報告裡面提到說我們要研議唾液檢驗入法的可能性我們有提到唾液檢驗入法的可能性我們目前刑法第185之3條"},{"start":7796.784,"end":7815.852,"text":"第一項的第三款它規定的是尿液或血液所含的毒品它的達到一定的值也就是說尿液跟血液現在目前是有法律依據的但是唾液沒有唾液沒有法律依據為什麼唾液原本沒有為什麼那時候那時候沒有想到人會吐口水嗎"},{"start":7816.972,"end":7833.804,"text":"不是 因為托育檢驗他的精確度比較低對不對 偽陽性的機率比較高嘛對不對 部長是不是這樣托育的話因為現在警方現在再次用托育快篩就初步的去做那個我知道 他是做輔助"},{"start":7834.284,"end":7854.179,"text":"輔助他在如果說要有一些智能使喚如果要申請羈押室他有他的效果因為他還有經過那個認證還有一些數據等等的一些的說明所以這邊我們是希望我們研議看是不是有沒有辦法入法我知道部長"},{"start":7855.16,"end":7879.435,"text":"我們原本只有尿液跟血液原本185條之3只有尿液血液尿液血液它是一個客觀標準它有一個值我們公告你超過這個值你就處罰但是第四款有一個說有錢款以外其他事情足以認定私用毒品麻醉藥品或其他類似之物自不能安全駕駛"},{"start":7880.902,"end":7886.579,"text":"第四款它是一個補充的而且是一個主觀的規定它是一個主觀判斷"},{"start":7888.153,"end":7912.022,"text":"這個也就是目前我們警察臨檢就是要很適用這一條我們警察臨檢不可能當場把你的血液抽出來然後當場有這麼快就可以當場檢驗說你有沒有吸毒你這個也不可能當場拿到你的尿液之後就當場檢驗當場就可以就判斷你有沒有吸毒沒有辦法所以它是一個我們目前的警察的臨檢我們的查緝很主要的是靠第四款"},{"start":7912.702,"end":7936.504,"text":"而唾液我們剛剛講的這個唾液檢驗它其實就是這個第四款的一個補強證據了就是我們如果有一個唾液檢驗你這個超過了那我就可以引用第四條來認定認定說你有前款以外的情形足以逐刃使用毒品所以它的這個但它還是一個補助還是一個補助規定"},{"start":7938.746,"end":7963.335,"text":"那你現在要把它所謂說我們要延益入法你是要把它入到第三條第三款第三款就是用尿液血液所含的毒品的這個代謝量達行政院公告品項之濃度以上如果唾液達這個以上我們就直接認定就直接這個是無得爭辯的啦血液你血液濃度達到這裡你說我沒有抽啊"},{"start":7966.158,"end":7975.536,"text":"但是你只要協議都達到這裡我就不管你我就不再需要任何其他的證據就是因為你達到這個標準我就認定你那唾液有這樣子的證據強度嗎"},{"start":7977.123,"end":7995.707,"text":"所以這部分還要做一些的數據還需要一些數據包括人體的一個試驗等等的這部分我們要再做一個如果說這邊我們充實當然就可以入法了那剛才委員真的是很對這個有深入的研究那的確是如果說當然一直沒辦法檢驗出來那從那個測試的密錄器的一個影像測試觀察紀錄表或者說我們警察當場做一些的看一些的"},{"start":8005.309,"end":8018.662,"text":"對 這個都可以 這個都作為醫療性羈押的要件對 這些都可以 如果說從這些其他的事實的可以佐證 證明說他沒辦安全駕駛 這也是成立這一套罪對 對 對所以他唾液檢驗到現在 我們還沒有入法之前我們的唾液檢驗就是扮演這個角色對 對 對 他這是一個補助性角色但是你現在要入法"},{"start":8025.669,"end":8051.18,"text":"那你就必須要讓唾液檢驗有一個數據有一個科學的數據必須要跟血液跟尿液一樣的精準因為它是客觀標準它沒有任何政變的空間它沒有任何政變的空間說那如果說你唾液檢驗仍然跟過去一樣偉陽性這麼高的話你這樣子入法是不是會有風險這部分我沒有反對我只是說在修法的過程中我希望這部分能夠說明清楚說明清楚"},{"start":8052.541,"end":8074.955,"text":"也要視社會的疑慮另外我們還有提到說我們的假釋門檻要修改這也是我們這次的重大的宣示之一假釋門檻要修改假釋門檻的修改請問部長是不是就是刑法我們是不是要用刑法77條修正刑法77條的這個特別的假釋門檻"},{"start":8079.278,"end":8094.949,"text":"是 就是我們在研議因為這次我們這個全面提高刑度這部分我們是本週內會因為我們修正查案已經理好了我們也經過專家學者的討論我們這些所以我們在本週內會送行政會來審查至於那個77條的是不是說這些獨家的嚴格假釋的這要件我們現在在研議中是不是要是三證條款或怎樣的一個嚴審嚴格審查的那個一個假釋的一個依據"},{"start":8109.158,"end":8133.069,"text":"我們會做一個嚴厲因為這個嚴格化假釋門檻也是這次你們所宣示的我們會朝這個方向來處理一個重要的當然法條還沒有過我們再做一個個案的現在的假釋我們會再嚴審在法條結構上面目前的這個刑法第77條的這個特別的假釋規定目前我看到它所有的犯罪類型都是新犯罪的類型"},{"start":8133.789,"end":8137.39,"text":"沒有其他的犯罪類型要把這個安全價值所以你要納到這個特別講師規定裡面你們這個你們也是要研議再來不好意思我再還有一點比較我個人認為比較"},{"start":8150.805,"end":8166.07,"text":"需要跟部長探討的就是說我們剛剛所講的政策裡面你們有一個你們提到說這個為了源頭防堵你們要推動這個所有的這個交通工具獨駕的車子我們要用往義務沒抽的方向"},{"start":8167.881,"end":8190.995,"text":"來修法對不對你的這個報告的確是的確就是報告也說採義務沒收這就快擴大那個嚇阻的一個效用這個是沒有錯啦我大概知道這個精神啦就是說這樣避免說你明知道他有吸毒你這車子就不敢借給他了因為我借給他我現在車子可能就會被沒收但是我們法律還是要講這個所謂的沒收是"},{"start":8191.875,"end":8204.009,"text":"刑事上面是刑法上面的沒收還是行政法上面這是刑法沒收我們那個本部提出來是主張的是刑法的沒收刑法沒收到目前為止獨駕沒有獨駕的車輛酒駕車沒有這個沒收的規定目前是道安"},{"start":8212.699,"end":8239.357,"text":"道安條例裡面的沒入的規定是行政沒入行政沒入這部分要交交通部他們有這樣的我們如果有這樣的立法我們尊重交通部的這些立法的一些政策所以你們講義務沒收我就嚇一跳義務沒收是因為不分行為人所有只要是一個獨駕者他開的這動力交通工具我們就是被朝央交沒收也不是職權沒收也不是裁定沒收你們直接說要用義務沒收"},{"start":8241.139,"end":8250.348,"text":"這是一個用詞 但是就是法律上我們要申請就是要沒收有這個法律的一個依據目前獨駕其實車輛"},{"start":8255.874,"end":8279.07,"text":"就可以行政沒入了行政沒入目前是在道路交通管理條例第35條第9項但是目前的規定是要造勢致人重傷死亡才可以行政沒入目前現在現有的法律規定那我先不管你說現在要把這個沒入的規定你要用刑法來用沒收這個要更動刑法"},{"start":8280.083,"end":8303.451,"text":"但是如果你用道路交通管理用行政沒入的話你可以修改道路交通管理條例第35條第9項修改讓他把這個所謂肇事致重傷而死亡這個要件把它拿掉變成你只要你只要這個吸食毒品迷幻藥麻醉藥或其他相關類似管制物品來駕駛你的車輛就可以沒入行政沒入可以那你剛剛講說要義務沒收刑法的義務沒收"},{"start":8304.867,"end":8327.796,"text":"其實我們自己我們最高法院最高法院的判決對於這個這個義務沒收有很嚴格的限制有很嚴格的限制我這一列列的這個我們裁判這是最我目前的在在做從事沒收的判決裡面他幾乎是等於聖經一樣的引用大家都引用這個高等法院的判決他嚴格限縮解釋"},{"start":8329.226,"end":8342.086,"text":"我們現在當然可以用刑法第38條說的第二項說公犯罪所用犯罪預備之物等等的這個有特別規定得莫收之你可以把它當作公犯罪所用"},{"start":8343.395,"end":8371.565,"text":"把車輛當作這個不安全駕駛罪的這個犯罪工具用這一條來說因為公犯罪所用但是你們高等法院的解釋對於公犯罪所用的解釋非常的嚴格跟限縮非常嚴格跟限縮你們這裡限縮之後沒收物必須有特別就是說它必須關聯的客體客體本身要具有促成推進構成要件實踐的輔助功能"},{"start":8372.608,"end":8400.128,"text":"也就是說在這個解釋之下獨駕的車輛是難以是很難用公犯罪所用這一條來把它沒收的那當然沒收你真的所謂剛剛教育部長講的義務沒收其實刑法裡面的這些沒收的相關的規定它其實你們在這個高等法院的解釋裡面也提到說其沒收必須有特別規定為之"},{"start":8401.516,"end":8411.826,"text":"就是說我必須要在法令上面就這一條這個犯罪太陽我必須要特別規定那目前目前的這種特別規定的太陽他都不是引用什麼第38條像我們現在的這個這個幾個犯罪啦齁這個"},{"start":8418.191,"end":8433.154,"text":"像鴉片罪鴉片罪他就在整個章節的最後一條說所有這些製造鴉片的原料你的這個鴉片吸食工具這些都要沒收義務沒收這不管你你什麼就是這個這個法院沒有職權裁定的問題就是義務沒收"},{"start":8434.315,"end":8454.869,"text":"那像賭博罪他就是個別規定在賭博罪的第266條他說犯第一項之罪當賭博之器具彩券或這個賭台籌碼不問是不是屬於犯罪人都要沒收都必須要刑法必須要有這種特別規定你們法院才會適用所以現在我們要研議要把這個獨家的這個車輛"},{"start":8459.858,"end":8479.98,"text":"一個一條路是我剛講的用道路交通管理條例陌路行政陌路的方式來處理修法是比較簡單如果按照法務部剛剛部長所講的你要用刑法的義務沒收來做那就我我剛提的這些問題請部長在修法的時候你要來嚴加思考好不好好謝謝委員的指教謝謝"},{"start":8496.52,"end":8519.355,"text":"我們現在請翁小玲召委主席好謝謝主席這邊有請鄭部長然後廖副署長請鄭明謙正部長廖副署長以及教育部跟書發部教育部跟書發部請列席謝謝"},{"start":8524.301,"end":8541.807,"text":"好的這個今天本席之所以要安排有關於獨駕防制的專報那麼主要的也是因為這個在近期真的發生非常多獨駕肇事的案件那麼所以國人也感到非常的"},{"start":8543.389,"end":8568.738,"text":"這個害怕不曉得會不會哪一天可能又被獨駕的人所傷害所造勢那麼事實上依據就是法務部自己的統計2025年各級毒品的施用人數差不多4.6萬那施用二級毒品有2.9萬人這是最多的那麼我剛剛其實也看了警政署今天的報告那麼在"},{"start":8569.458,"end":8579.283,"text":"事實上就是我們的警察同仁非常非常努力在過去這些年裡面基本上查獲獨駕的幾乎都是零檢也就是98%的案件幾乎就都是零檢那麼如果說我們看到就在113年當時刑法移送的件數大概是2619件"},{"start":8589.108,"end":8593.011,"text":"到了110年114隔一年就暴增三倍高達8659件那麼在今年1到5月的話則又已經累積到6730件了看起來可能在今年結束之前勢必一定會破1萬件左右"},{"start":8610.623,"end":8631.015,"text":"所以也就是說其實毒價的這個問題非常非常嚴重而這個事情基本上從114年的時候其實就可以看出端倪因為那時候就已經比前一年要暴增了三倍多那本席感到好奇的就是說其實這件事情為什麼我們的這個毒品審查會議我們有個叫做毒品審查審議會議對於就是到底要不要把依托米紙"},{"start":8639.01,"end":8659.826,"text":"這個毒品的等級從三級二級然後一直要提高為一級的這件事情拖這麼久等於說拖了整整一年半的時間都沒有積極的去討論到底一拖彌止酸要不要被列為這個毒品管制的範圍請問部長這一年半你們都在做什麼"},{"start":8661.009,"end":8684.474,"text":"跟委員報告其實伊東米子這個是從113年我們發覺到有這些的毒價就是用伊東米子這個是沒有管制的這不是毒品所以113年我們速度很快在113年的8月5號就公告列為第三級結果在兩個多月後就再改列為第二級那為什麼從第二級到第一級"},{"start":8685.98,"end":8697.505,"text":"差不多距離了一年多的時間而這一年呢就去年那一年是不是因為大罷免的關係所以大家都不關心伊托米紙氾濫的這個上市煙彈氾濫的程度所以其實如果說你按照你當時從伊托米紙從113年8月那時候先把它列為三級然後很快的三個月之後就把它提高為二級"},{"start":8713.092,"end":8730.145,"text":"那為什麼沒有在去年就把它提高為一級呢而是一直拖拖拖到現在6月17號才要開會如果說按照這個法務部這邊自己的報告說明也說你們這個毒品審議委員會是定期召開每三個月召開一次必要的時候還可以開臨時會議"},{"start":8731.826,"end":8748.238,"text":"那在这样的情况之下为什么没有积极的去召开那个临时会议如果说我们这个问题在去年就已经发现很严重了其实可以提早因应作业而不是说是一直要拖到6月17号然后才要召开这个读品审议会议"},{"start":8749.597,"end":8772.663,"text":"跟委員報告,事實上我們對毒品的分級,這部分是滾動式的一個檢討那的確是這個急速的一個增加,也就是因為我們把它列入毒品所以警方才,我們有就專案的一個查緝,所以才會就查獲的,才會就急速的一個增加也就是因為它列入一個毒品的一個管制"},{"start":8773.163,"end":8778.725,"text":"那這些我們才會求專長這是本席知道說就是說同意就是法務部在113年的時候當時有積極的處理那但是呢本席這邊是要譴責就是為什麼法務部在後來的這一段時間這麼消極沒有積極的去做處理如果說不是因為最近又發生了這麼多起的這個獨家造勢的案件會不會法務部到現在都還"},{"start":8796.571,"end":8809.918,"text":"還沒有想到說要把這個毒品升高為一級所以呢本席是認為說希望就是部長這邊你們以後如果說要召開毒品審議會議的時候我非常同意您剛剛說的一定要滾動式的去檢討而且今天我們看到的是伊托米脂酸的這個問題但是還有很多其他的也是屬於麻醉性的藥品"},{"start":8820.524,"end":8833.427,"text":"他未來很不可能又會去用在跟其他的毒品做結合那麼這部分的話真的是必須要加速的處理啦那當然總是就是說6月17號毒品審議委員會要開會應該沒有問題的話應該是會將依托彌止就是提高為一級毒品那本期希望說你們這邊還是能夠以後類似遇到這樣的狀況一定要積極的處理不要再這麼不要延檔"},{"start":8848.89,"end":8866.616,"text":"不要延宕處理還有另外一個問題就是說對於現在國內查獲沒有列管先驅原料或是新興濫用的物質如果是具有產業用途無法列入毒品品項的時候獨省會會做成一個附帶決議要報請行政院以專案方式來指定主管機關"},{"start":8868.597,"end":8889.137,"text":"來做處理來控制它的流向那麼事實上海巡署到目前為止海巡署我看到報告就說已經建行法務部要將伊托米止酸列入毒品先驅原料管制那從源頭就要徹底的去截斷毒品供應鏈所以現在因為伊托米止是屬於醫療用的短效"},{"start":8890.398,"end":8909.369,"text":"靜脈的麻醉劑所以我這邊可能順便請教衛福部就是請問依托米子到底有沒有符合所謂具有產業用途的要件如果說它是屬於具有產業用途的這種興趣原料的話那它的管理是由衛福部來主管嗎"},{"start":8910.553,"end":8929.812,"text":"跟委員報告,目前依托米子是合法的,就是合法的依托米子藥品是我們核准的這個靜脈麻醉的用藥,那它是一個注射劑,目前衛福部這邊只有核准一張製劑的輸入許可證,也沒有核任何的原料藥,那依托米子這個成分,它只有醫療的用途,它並沒有工業的用途,"},{"start":8930.072,"end":8951.147,"text":"所以你們有沒有監管他的這個整個源頭進來的流向報告委員有關於依托彌子的製劑跟原料的部分他因為目前也列為管制藥品所以他們是全程被我們監管那使用的單位的布測也會做相關的紀錄留存我們會定期的查核所以至於說他是不是作為先驅原料這要看最後獨省會他們的決議那如果列為先驅原料的話是經濟部在管理以上"},{"start":8952.15,"end":8978.363,"text":"所以這個部分來說又不是屬於衛福部主管所以是屬於經濟部主管假設它是屬於先驅原料的話請問經濟部現在有會有作為嗎不好意思今天我們有邀請經濟部嗎沒有好沒關係那這個可能之後再說其實我想衛福部應該也會知道如果它是屬於這個先驅原料的話那部長不知道這裡可以回答嗎就是會將這個伊托米池列為先驅原料嗎"},{"start":8979.284,"end":8994.36,"text":"這部分跟召委報告就是這個因為伊托米子算是伊托米子的一個先驅的原料那這部分我們同時在6月17日我們也會送給獨省會來審理要把它列出獨品"},{"start":8994.949,"end":9019.844,"text":"好 希望能夠就是加強管制我們希望把它列入毒品好的 那麼接下來就是說本席要再進一步的詢問就是因為行政院也宣示了要積極的修法跟啟動毒品與毒價的相關修法法務部就負責刑法 毒品危害防治條例然後交通部又負責管理條例衛福部則負責陰害防治法那麼事實上就是這個我們的"},{"start":9022.566,"end":9050.031,"text":"行政院政委林明信有說希望這個月就可以把相關的修法送到立法院不過本席真的對於這句話我感到我會打個大大的問號不知道部長知不知道現在行政院押了多少案子上代執行審查中的有多少案子我沒有這幫的資料我告訴你現在行政院有154案是押在行政院該審沒有審"},{"start":9052.571,"end":9067.323,"text":"我們立法院已經積極的通過好幾個案子那麼我當時也要求行政院要提出對案遲遲不提出包含我們上禮拜講的有關特留份的修法我們給了法務部多少的時間"},{"start":9068.888,"end":9082.614,"text":"都沒有提出對案就我們那天在開在黨協商的時候也要求說法務部如果說你們都已經研議了準備要反案要預告了要先提出來到委員會讓我們委員們知道啊然後我還記得次長說我們過幾天才會預告結果當天下午就預告了我不知道是現在是要純粹是要跟立法院作對嗎還是想要搶功勞"},{"start":9098.137,"end":9123.422,"text":"我們本來特留份的法案法條在上個禮拜五基本上就可以刪讀了就是因為現在可能莊院選委員要等待法務部的案子所以又把這個特留份的這個這三讀通過的時間又壓下來了我要講的是其實我一點都不相信行政院會在這個月就會將相關的修法送到立法院"},{"start":9124.369,"end":9150.171,"text":"如果會的話那就代表行政院靈明性就是選擇性修法多少重要的法案除了剛剛我們講特留份小額貪污的免刑的修法也是法務部支持的你們有提出法案嗎也是壓在這個行政院公務人員的待遇調整修法也是一樣行政院人事行政總署早就提出了全部都壓在行政院"},{"start":9152.452,"end":9175.522,"text":"我知道這件事情當然跟部長您無關啦就是我想您也很無奈因為法務部司法院等等這些機關有非常多的法案現在全部都押在行政院但是我要講就是說我現在看到行政院有154案沒有提出來我會一個去檢討他到底是押了多久我這次我一定會在預算上面我要反映我對行政院的不滿同時我也要"},{"start":9179.265,"end":9197.425,"text":"接下來是不是這個月就會將相關的法案全部送出好 那麼接下來就是說還有就是有關於這個要請教內政部警政署副署長跟教育部的就是事實上剛剛也在內政部的報告裡面有看到目前"},{"start":9198.854,"end":9218.447,"text":"全國唾液的毒品快篩劑在115年大概有四萬五千多劑那四萬五千多劑因為你們之後要發到各個不同的派出所去其實平均每一間的派出所大概一年只能分到三十劑其實是不夠的"},{"start":9219.928,"end":9248.258,"text":"同樣的對不起還有教育部也是教育部說先採購五千劑然後再分配給各個縣市但是我們現在全國有上千個或是有沒有接近一萬個高中小學有五萬七千個班級你這五千劑是要怎麼去分配就算是之後準備要採取2.8萬劑左右那麼要怎麼去分配所以我想請教就是警局副署長還有教育部就是你們要怎麼樣去"},{"start":9248.618,"end":9276.94,"text":"先為我們報告一下就是我們今年已經增加到四萬五千劑目前那還會再滾動次的修正那是地方的一個執行的一個狀況他可能在擴充增購這個都會做滾動次的修正我現在講就說你根本不夠嘛對不對你們有沒有預估多少劑多少的這個快篩劑的存量才會足夠去做現在的這種快篩的檢驗"},{"start":9279.11,"end":9294.939,"text":"目前我們覺得到目前為止四萬五千計當然還要是後續的一個執行狀況那目前因為去年一萬多計那今年已經擴增到四萬五千計了目前來講是足夠的足夠第一線的同仁在執行那如果不夠的話隨時會滾動式修正來擴增來增購"},{"start":9299.062,"end":9318.717,"text":"教育部這邊是先採購五千劑來協助優先分配下去給縣市來執行後續會納入共同供應契約以我們過往的一個尿液篩檢的量大概是兩萬劑所以大概也有跟內政部 警政署合作未來就是納入共同供應契約的量由縣市來進行採購"},{"start":9320.418,"end":9349.657,"text":"我想这个采购部分应该要加速的进行另外也要再请教教育部的就是说其实刚刚张亚林委员已经也问过了这个现在其实就是接下来就执行面的问题如果学校老师有发现某个同学然后精神恍惚然后身体颤抖等等怀疑他是不是吸食益上是烟袋可是学生就拒绝配合配合这个进行快筛检验然后家长也不用签知情同意书那事实上"},{"start":9350.798,"end":9374.232,"text":"我覺得學校跟老師是很無奈的但是如果不做的話可能又會被學校檢討或是教育部也會檢討所以教育部有沒有想到一個就是可以建立一個全國性的通報機制就是如果說這些學生或家長不願意配合的總要有一個管理的機制吧或是說是看看是由警政署還是哪一個單位來負責出面來做這樣的一個檢查"},{"start":9376.283,"end":9384.132,"text":"跟委員報告過去就是如果有拒絕這個篩檢以前尿液篩檢的部分也就是會同相關的單位緊症單位來做協助那只是我們剛剛特別的補充是說還是希望先進行溝通那到真的是不配合那我們相關的說明之後可能也會同相關單位來協助"},{"start":9396.425,"end":9405.109,"text":"當然還有另外一個問題就是說很多青少年學生或許會覺得自己被標籤化所以在事後的輔導或是在怎麼樣選定哪一些學生必須要做這樣的一個脫衣篩檢的時候可能也要特別注意這個問題那最後我要請教就是速發部跟衛福部其實剛剛聽了很多的委員有在講就是說現在在網路媒體平台上面的確非常容易買到"},{"start":9422.076,"end":9438.227,"text":"電子煙從衛福部跟速發部之前也在說電子煙的製造販賣本來就是不允許的但是明明就是在平台上面我們可以看到這麼多的商店這麼多的店家都在賣請問我們到底有沒有到目前為止我們有沒有處罰過台灣的這幾個大的平台包含GoogleMeta集團底下的Facebook IG等等這些平台有處罰過嗎"},{"start":9451.162,"end":9474.729,"text":"我們有處罰過有處罰過幾件網際網路的部分嗎對網際網路的部分監測到的是三萬兩千多件那真正處罰因為有些還在行政訴訟當中這麼多年了沒有因為他們違反陰害防治法而被處罰嗎有真正處罰過啦真正處罰過幾件嘛"},{"start":9477.799,"end":9491.426,"text":"有處罰過Google 處罰過Meta嗎 有處罰過Facebook嗎請問書發部知道這個數字嗎電子煙的部分191件 加熱煙違法的加熱有30件是處罰哪一個平台"},{"start":9501.672,"end":9526.089,"text":"網際網路包括Facebook還有Google然後還有像那個電商平台好 本席希望衛福部提供給我這個數據你們到目前為止譬如說這個近十年或近五年近十年好了你們處罰了多少件網際網路平台然後呢案件數以及累積的罰環本席需要知道這個數字因為我認為說其實衛福部或數發布基本上是碰到美國的這個平台集團就不敢"},{"start":9531.312,"end":9559.042,"text":"出手了嗎明明就知道說現在就是在網路上面販售情形很嚴重除了處罰國內自己的店家之外平台也有很大的責任在上面你們只是查器查貨剛才說是我告知這些平台他們要盡善良管理人責任他就已經不是善良管理人了他是故意放縱甚至去包庇包容這些販賣毒品的這些店家"},{"start":9560.894,"end":9574.764,"text":"對我希望文件署還有書發部要這個積極要勇於認識該罰就要罰不要因為他是美國的業者所以我們就不敢處罰好嗎好那麻煩本席要的報告請你們一個月之內跟我提供好謝謝"},{"start":9593.561,"end":9603.414,"text":"好 謝謝 我們接下來請徐宇珍委員發言謝謝主席 我們請鄭明謙 鄭部長好 又請鄭部長"},{"start":9608.92,"end":9637.779,"text":"委員好部長好部長今天我們所有的委員大家請來這邊質詢最主要就是因為近來這個獨駕的案件引起接連很多重大的死傷尤其是日前還有我們的這個彰化培原分所長他被撞斷雙腿也是獨駕案件可是最後卻是無保請回其實引起這個大的化染而且民怨沸騰"},{"start":9638.76,"end":9655.154,"text":"那我們行政院的卓院長他在6月4號就宣布要將依託民脂提升為第一級的毒品製造運輸跟販賣最終可求除死刑那人民當然非常支持政府打擊毒品"},{"start":9655.814,"end":9671.571,"text":"但是大家更想知道的是為什麼政府過去這麼長的一段時間只要已經掌握了相關的資訊也很多的我講相關的制度預警制度那也有這個委員會可是為什麼會一路放任問題惡化到今天呢"},{"start":9673.032,"end":9693.322,"text":"跟委員報告事實上並沒有放任因為以我們那個毒品危害防治匯報就一直在整合各部會的一些從源頭的一個管制到我們法務部主管的就是緝毒面的這部分我們都是有一個匯報的一個形式"},{"start":9695.603,"end":9713.402,"text":"但另外事實上我們台高檢署也成立一個預警的一個平台那我們對那些限期原料那些沒有列入的我們都是用專案就是用臨時都有提案的方式來都給各幹部做一個監管來檢討是不是在列入來提到來做毒品或其他的一個管理"},{"start":9713.442,"end":9728.931,"text":"所以你剛剛講的這個預警平台是在112年就已經成立了就有了但是我想警政署有一個統計的數據我們在110年的時候那時候獨家的大概43件到113年就2619件那在114年就已經8659件到今年1到5月份就已經6730件也就是平均一天就有40件"},{"start":9739.697,"end":9756.963,"text":"那所以說呢剛剛您講的這個有預警機制的話可是這個預警讓我們的這個獨家的案件越來越高而且呢好像到現在有點失控的狀況那我知道就是說現在就是我們在這個獨省6月17號你們要召開獨省會嘛那其實獨省會在113年11月14號的時候把依託名職從三級升到二級"},{"start":9761.664,"end":9769.327,"text":"那可是當年度呢 獨駕的事件就有2619件到114年度又增加到8655件那經過這麼長的一個時間 一年多的時間就證明依托米子從三級升為二級這樣子的一個當時的判斷呢 是不正確的所以才會導致我們在114年呢可以說獨駕的事件這麼多到現在一天又有40件的獨駕 平均一天40件喔"},{"start":9789.056,"end":9816.046,"text":"所以讀審會的這個功能到底在哪裡經過這一年半的時間為什麼到6月17號才要召開會議當然在中間你們每三個月都召開會議但是呢既然是有重大的案件必要時可以召開臨時會嘛那我剛剛也提到說我們其實一天大概就有40件的讀駕現在平均有一天有4件讀駕那為什麼不符合召開臨時會的要件而要拖到6月17才要召開呢"},{"start":9817.624,"end":9841.345,"text":"謝謝委員我想那個一通明子從那113年它本來就不是類管的毒品所以113年有兩次大概從8月從3G到2G當然這一年多來我們就做滾動式的檢討那因為這是一個新興的毒品那為什麼這一次會有那個毒價的一些的產生第一就是說因為一通明子它是有方式是結合電子菸"},{"start":9842.826,"end":9861.111,"text":"電子鹽的一個方式它當然載具嘛對它載具所以因為它適用非常的方便它一面開車一面用像我們原來的這些的它不用結合電子鹽的話譬如說還要做注射蒸桶還要煤納水還要做其他的部長您很清楚這個原因嘛那為什麼到現在還讓這個問題這麼嚴重的發現所以說我們就趕緊就來做滾動式檢討趕緊把它列入為因為這滾動式檢討已經一年多了"},{"start":9871.474,"end":9883.749,"text":"所以我覺得這個速度真的有些慢所以我們這個是加強的一個查緝但是呢當然從現在開始就認真的去面對然後盡速的去完成我覺得這是我們大家希望就是說6月17日這次獨省會議這些的委員能夠"},{"start":9892.078,"end":9911.966,"text":"因為這個要類入這個的話要成癮性還有那個濫用性跟那個社會危害性那這一通名詞它的社會危害性的確是現在是非常大所以我們又趕緊又把這個提出來來類入為一級毒品來做一個因為其實卓院長已經都已經公開在那個行政院會就已經公開的指示要推動嘛"},{"start":9912.446,"end":9925.797,"text":"要推動伊脫米子成為一級的毒品其實這個部分我想院長都已經這樣講了但是我這邊也要請教一下部長因為院長也有特別提到就是要將我們的連續只要是製造運輸販賣最終可求處死刑"},{"start":9933.383,"end":9953.515,"text":"可是我們現在在那個憲判制第八號的判決是要求何義廷必須以治決其實就等同實質廢死那請問部長您針對這個部分的話院長提出這樣的宣示到底是真心相信死刑有嚇阻的效果還是在民怨沸騰時只是拿出死刑來安撫民意"},{"start":9955.836,"end":9979.749,"text":"這部分因為它列入一級一級毒品的話有製造販賣運輸等等這些的一級毒品它的法定型毒品危害防治它是死刑跟無期徒刑那所以這部分如果說有這部分的依通彌子的一個製造販賣運輸等等這些的一個犯刑那當然最重如果情節重大法院都會判就可以判處死刑"},{"start":9981.591,"end":10001.87,"text":"對 但是我剛講的現在的法院的判決其實等同實質廢死啊沒有 因為最近才判一件那個高雄地方法院才判一件死刑就是分屍案嘛對 但是會不會再提起非常上訴呢是國民法官的一個案件對 但是會不會檢查中提起非常上訴呢然後又駁回呢"},{"start":10002.919,"end":10029.757,"text":"這是一審而已所以你要三審一致決嗎那個要判死刑要一致決但不是說沒有判過死刑以後就不能判死刑現在針對這個部分的話是不是認為死刑真的有嚇阻作用所以你們現在認為應該是要把他提交到醫師所以我們檢察官在求處有些情節重大的犯罪我們是求處死刑的"},{"start":10030.437,"end":10049.903,"text":"但是到最後呢 真正能夠判決定驗死刑的法務部的立場 我們法務部是支持維持死刑 這死刑要審慎但是我們是支持 我們是審視何限的然後我們也檢查過對重大的犯罪有死刑的這些法庭刑 我們會求死刑"},{"start":10052.244,"end":10068.34,"text":"副長其實針對這個部分我們覺得嚴懲獨駕是法務部的決心我想這個是我們想我們都立場是一致的對 所以說針對我想嚴懲獨駕這個部分的話我們大家要怎麼拿出破裂跟實質力我覺得這個比較重要那當然我想再請教一下我們的這個警政署副署長"},{"start":10072.267,"end":10100.177,"text":"就是剛剛有提到我們現在因為在最重要其實就是獨家的問題那現在針對這個唾液快篩剛剛您也提到說唾液快篩的試劑應該是沒有問題但是現在就是說我們現在的問題就是說現在很多在這個利用唾液快篩的話它有可能它這個稀釋的時間超過了那個時間之後它可能就會驗不出來所以這個偽陰性的比例現在大概是多少"},{"start":10101.702,"end":10128.465,"text":"現在就是我們目前目前這個脫衣快篩的驗出來的陽性然後後來我們用尿液來檢驗它的陽性率是100%也就是說這個脫衣快篩的一個有效性是對 但是你是驗出來陽性嘛但是我的意思就是說它可能吸食完一段時間之後呢它會衰退對 所以說它變成尾陰性像這樣子的案件你們有掌握嗎因為它驗出來是那一個"},{"start":10129.305,"end":10142.11,"text":"那因為他如果他衰退之後驗出來可能就是變成陰性對 可是他的一些舉止狀態可能還是非常的危險所以才會有這樣的一個毒價的一個問題這麼嚴重那所以針對這個部分的話你們有什麼樣的一個做法呢"},{"start":10150.137,"end":10165.772,"text":"因為你驗不到毒品就攔不下毒價所以就是剛剛其實有一位委員有提到那從客觀上如果足以判斷他不能安全駕駛然後還有再加採取他的尿液那請問一下一線刑方逮捕的話你們從這個到檢測尿液到檢測報告出來要多久的時間目前"},{"start":10180.345,"end":10199.362,"text":"我們現在程序是這樣子我們剛剛講陽性預測力去年的3000多件我們驗出來因為有這些獨駕的增厚再加上拖曳快篩達到百分之一百那現在就是說我們現在肇事的智能重傷然後有獨駕的增厚然後產生陰性的部分我們就會送到尿液"},{"start":10200.703,"end":10226.229,"text":"那我們尿液綠色通道 尿液大概20小時之內就出來了綠色通道 不是每一件就綠色通道20小時之內我們可以看一下 最後一頁其實現在的話 我覺得會有遇到這樣的問題就是獨駕執法跟司法判決 審判的一個困境就是你在前端攔截的時候呢第一個就我剛剛講的 有可能會是漏網失運因為偽陰性 他繼續開車造成獨駕"},{"start":10229.69,"end":10251.099,"text":"找到之後 料運送檢 你剛說好 本來說要7到14你現在說可以20個小時可是我們法定移送的時效只有24小時所以顯然是來不及 那每一報告只能夠無保請回所以說變成在法院的宣判的時候它無保請回的這種案例也非常的多那面對這樣子的一個現實困境要怎麼來解決呢"},{"start":10254.733,"end":10273.601,"text":"跟委員報告啦我剛剛講的6到8小時大概就是我們24小時內是綠色通道那6到8小時是什麼就是我們最快最快的話可以6到8小時那現在我們現在因為拖曳快篩我們現在警政署訂定這個獨駕這個作業程序取締作業程序在"},{"start":10274.341,"end":10291.213,"text":"我們這樣的一個前置的有獨家增厚的再加上透液快篩那這個部分我們去年統計下來以後雖然它的缺效就是光透液的缺效大概是96%點多那有這樣獨家的增厚那你剛剛講到6到8個小時的檢疫的量是多少"},{"start":10292.613,"end":10309.798,"text":"現在每一件沒有辦法因為現在三大機關 調查局 刑事局還有我們法醫研究所這個部分所有的我們就用脫衣快篩加上獨駕這個部分因為我們去年3000多件統計下來以後我們第一個做人車分離"},{"start":10310.598,"end":10330.024,"text":"第二個就是把這些報告附在後面然後見請羈押我現在提到的就是說針對剛剛你剛剛也提到了這檢驗量人絕對沒辦法在六到八個小時可是相關的案件送到地院像我不曉得我們的這個彰化分住所的這個所長被撞的那一件"},{"start":10330.464,"end":10348.297,"text":"最後吳保請回到底是什麼因素是不是有可能是這樣我不知道但是呢確實現在已經造成很多這樣子的一個困擾了那所以針對這個部分我覺得我們應該把這個執法跟司法宣判的這個現實的困境要能夠來解決部長您的看法咧"},{"start":10350.221,"end":10370.758,"text":"我想就是這一種的毒價是零容忍那我們也會在目前的這些的現在我們是修法嘛在沒有修法之前的話我們講是強力的一個還是速查嚴辦那因為現在預防性羈押已經把那個不能安全駕駛已經列入了5月4號就公佈施行了"},{"start":10371.158,"end":10394.918,"text":"那我沒有遇到就如果智能史上這部分我們會檢討會申請羈押那我們想會申請羈押他不是只有一個托育快篩的這個一個陽性因為還有其他的一些的基證來申請反應的羈押要合乎到訴訟法的101條裡面有提到的一個市政我想重點是如何執行我們一定要拿出魄力來好好的來努力好嗎謝謝"},{"start":10398.039,"end":10409.088,"text":"好謝謝徐委員那因為我們剛剛已經有先經做這個會議程序的宣告所以我們現在就休息五分鐘對不起孟海委員我們先休息五分鐘"},{"start":10724.926,"end":10746.418,"text":"好我們現在繼續開會接下來我們有請洪孟楷委員發言好主席謝謝麻煩請法務部長以及我們警政署副署長好請部長跟副署長委員好部長好部長獨駕零容忍"},{"start":10749.878,"end":10774.033,"text":"你早上也講了就說這個毒架撞到我們的派出所所長造成這個雙腿斷裂這個也是無法容忍的但本席看到新聞感覺到更加訝異為什麼這一個嫌犯所謂的私信男子警方所說他是警方列管的毒品人口過去曾經有毒品前科以及私用毒品的惡習"},{"start":10775.447,"end":10802.883,"text":"所以已經是一個毒品前科的累犯了今天撞到所長而所長是在執勤中穿著制服來去做攔檢還被這個嫌犯倒車逃逸試圖衝撞員警造成員警的雙腿骨折結果法院居然講說因為這個嫌犯過去沒有酒駕毒駕前科啊來我想請教一下"},{"start":10804.079,"end":10820.418,"text":"酒駕毒駕前科跟他的毒品這個列管的部分過去沒有酒駕毒駕前科說不定是根本沒有那時候我們的那個試劑還不夠也因此沒有攔檢到但不代表說他沒有失實毒品啊那怎麼會那麼輕輕的一個縱放勒"},{"start":10821.978,"end":10839.232,"text":"跟委員報告因為我們以我們檢警我們是嚴厲查緝嚴懲重罰這部分那個整個一個無保請回到法院我們是申請無保請回的那我們想這部分我們是不服的所以這部分我們都有抗告"},{"start":10839.932,"end":10858.252,"text":"我們先請羈押但到說地院用的理由是讓他無保請回是因為他沒有毒價前科但是他是警方列管的毒品人口他有濕食毒品的前科來我先請教一下那個副署長副署長我們現在警方列管的毒品人口有多少位"},{"start":10860.073,"end":10884.19,"text":"獵管毒品人口全國全國的部分三千多三千多所以換言之這三千多有沒有地方法院他們了不了解啊因為其實就本席來看這個案件其實非常離譜啊是因為他早就是警方的獵管人口所以警方遇到他才會特別認為是說他要重點查緝那也果不其然確實他就是毒價嘛"},{"start":10884.73,"end":10910.57,"text":"而且跟委員報告我們移送的時候應該都會把相關的前科紀錄都會續名在這個移送報告裡面結果有前科紀錄他的前科紀錄也有毒品前科吸食毒品的惡習也有涉嫌公共危險跟傷害案件的這樣的一個嫌犯到最後居然遞願可以無保請回所以這個我們沒有辦法接受會不會太恐龍了一點我是沒辦法接受好來來部長"},{"start":10913.444,"end":10937.742,"text":"我知道因為這個是法院的一個判決那我們現在已經有正式馬上提出一個抗告嘛對不對這個已經抗告了好甚至這一個案件最離譜的地方我要求檢方一定要最快速度提起抗告是因為為什麼已經抗告了我要告訴你是因為地院這邊還有講說這個嫌犯表達願意跟員警和解啊我都不知道說這個嫌犯是要跟員警和解什麼"},{"start":10938.547,"end":10962.976,"text":"然後昨天出來一個新聞是我們這個所長在病院 病房裡面結果這個嫌犯的家屬拿了兩盒水果硬闖病房莫名其妙嘛這根本就是已經 我覺得已經涉嫌讓我們的執勤同仁公務人員心生畏懼啊欸 我知道你的病房在哪裡欸你被我撞傷了 然後我拿兩盒水果來給你看"},{"start":10964.158,"end":10982.766,"text":"我覺得真的是非常離譜的事情我們也是覺得我們的看法是跟委員一樣我們一起讓獨駕零容忍但是拉回來其實剛剛部長你答詢這個委員的一個回答的時候我覺得你有進入到狀況獨駕跟酒駕最大的不同其實我也諮詢過警政署署長"},{"start":10983.976,"end":10998.403,"text":"以前我們都認為酒駕相對比較氾濫為什麼因為有一些餐會有一些宴會但是比較大多數不敢講百分百但大多數是喝完酒之後餐會完之後他開車"},{"start":10999.864,"end":11015.641,"text":"喝酒沒有犯法但是喝酒開車犯法所以我們要列為重點項目尤其是可能尾牙祭的時候多來做臨檢但現在獨家不一樣您剛剛有做一個動作的比喻以前我們在電影裡面看到獨品施打是什麼是用針筒"},{"start":11019.045,"end":11036.181,"text":"是打手臂打這個血管可能相對複雜但現在新興毒品它配合電子菸的載具它變成是非常吸食方便而且邊開邊吸換言之它在開車的時候如果在吸食毒品的話"},{"start":11036.621,"end":11059.916,"text":"那個量一旦是過多過猛什麼時候他自己都不行人事完全不得而知所以這才是為什麼現在認為說獨駕比酒駕更加的嚴重而且獨駕的傷害程度駕車上街之後那就是一個不定時炸彈可能是隨機攻擊你我都有可能是受害者好所以部長我們講那麼多本席希望你跟我的立場是一致的"},{"start":11060.575,"end":11070.941,"text":"那我提出來185條之三獨駕致死的話我要求最高應該處死刑無期徒刑或10年以上有期徒刑為什麼很簡單啊"},{"start":11072.403,"end":11090.643,"text":"因為你已經是毒蟲駕車吸毒本來就已經犯法了你吸毒之後你還開車上路還邊開邊吸不管邊開邊吸或是你怎麼樣的一個樣態但是現在很有可能他就變成是一個不特定的攻擊那你的交通工具已經不是交通工具了你是殺人利器"},{"start":11091.724,"end":11117.958,"text":"所以我們才認為是說應該獨駕致死人死是一個事實我不管今天是什麼樣的狀況造成別人無辜的死亡是事實那我們就應該用最嚴厲的刑責來去跟他嚇阻讓他知道是說你不能做這個事情來 我請教法務部到最後版本居然是從3年到10年變成5年到12年 多增加2年"},{"start":11119.011,"end":11147.297,"text":"這個兩年的嚇阻效果你的利基點的嚇阻效果在哪裡你的零容忍就只有兩年嗎這個毒價會發生車禍或是人死傷那這邊如果說有不確定的殺人故意就像我們實務上有起訴就是一毒價撞到人就有去那個劉姓所長的那一種的就是劉中興所長對那個很不幸很認人很可惡的案子本席現在講的是說因為我們今天的專案一次專案一天晚上可以抓到一百件的毒價"},{"start":11148.197,"end":11171.249,"text":"那就代表是說大家現在不痛不癢啊所以立法有兩個方式跟目的跟行為我跟部長好好探討一下就一個是真真正正告訴民眾說比例原則等等的部分但另外一個是當現在社會裡面有那麼重大的一個刑責的時候我們也要用言行峻法告訴你這件事情在台灣社會零容忍"},{"start":11172.009,"end":11181.411,"text":"所以我們會有加重處分要 目的並不是說你來犯然後我來故意要判你 不是我是告訴你說不要做這件事情"},{"start":11182.372,"end":11209.966,"text":"也因此本席才會提出來啊我們過去到現在所有的不管是在野執政委員其實我覺得都一樣我們沒有人是想要殺身可是我們要用這樣的一個方式告訴大家是說你不要做這件事情那我相信99.9%的人也不會去做那如果0.1%的獨駕的人他以前可能全要僥倖心理那我不要他有僥倖心理啊所以我才告訴你說你只要敢獨駕上車我第一我要沒路車輛"},{"start":11211.052,"end":11238.047,"text":"第二如果你因為獨駕而致死的話我最高判你死刑那他可能就會思考是說那這樣子我不要開車嘛如果說吸毒吸毒畢竟也是犯罪可是他是個人行為那他選擇留在他自己的住所是不是用這樣的一個態度才是真真正正的零容忍否則的話你說從十年增加到兩年變十二年我看不出來這增加到兩年的意義在哪裡"},{"start":11240.37,"end":11258.457,"text":"那你不要跟 加一下 加一些有啦 這不是有啦 現在是我們的台獨問題啦這個一通明子 現在6月17號要跟一通明子算了就要 一級毒品嘛一級毒品那是 制毒 販毒 最高處於死刑嘛對 那C10咧"},{"start":11259.998,"end":11287.556,"text":"西十一級獨立 西十六的話 一級的話就五年以下啊 六月以上 五年以上是啊 五年以下那但是我們現在講的是說你獨駕是所以本席看中面一講 因為未來有沒有再有更多的新星的不知道因為科技在進步但本席今天就是要利用這個機會跟這個立場告訴我們國人政府跟我們是一體的就是現在大家很擔心獨駕的問題也不希望說我走在路上"},{"start":11288.456,"end":11315.263,"text":"遵守交通規則 但突然間哪一個橫衝直撞那因為他是毒品的吸食者而造成我們的生命財產安全也因此才會說我們把刑責提高而台灣現在社會好嘛 民進黨政府過去是講說我們沒有廢除死刑啊沒有嘛 是不是那既然沒有廢除死刑 我不知道現在死刑入法對於法務部也好 對於我們現在政府也好不是洪水猛獸吧"},{"start":11317.18,"end":11334.249,"text":"難道獨從駕車撞死人了我們還要給他機會嗎跟委員報告我想這個還是要去做一個區分像獨駕去不確定殺人故意去撞死人了這個就是直接到殺人的"},{"start":11334.989,"end":11359.694,"text":"那如果說獨駕致死我們最重視我們那個法條是到無期徒刑嘛到12年因為他那個是沒有前科的沒有前科的只有獨駕前科的以前的有所以你還要給他第二次機會那本來就是更不能給他第二次機會當然啊所以說我們才會講說一次就不行了所以我們現在要修法把它提高就是要告訴全國國人就是不能這樣做"},{"start":11360.814,"end":11385.286,"text":"所以車子要沒收嘛不管是誰的車子都要沒收只要是獨駕的車子都要沒收車子沒收我們有共識了嘛那現在是185-3的這個刑責的部分我們沒有共識嘛本席現在提出來是因為我在三個禮拜前已經有版本我們很多在野黨國民黨的委員也有版本就是支持185-3我們要提高獨駕致死最高判處死刑無期徒刑或十年以上有期徒刑我們希望法務部今天的質詢聽完之後回去再好好研議溝通"},{"start":11388.647,"end":11398.64,"text":"行政院到之後爆出來的版本不要跟國人的理解 情感 以及國人的認知背道而馳好不好 謝謝謝謝委員謝謝洪孟凱委員那接下來我們請林月琴委員發言"},{"start":11420.393,"end":11446.354,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們有請法務部部長跟警政署副署長好 請部長跟副署長委員好部長 早部長 我長期在關注我們的道路安全所以我當然也支持行政運要加重我們的獨駕的行者因為獨駕危害道路安全 那政府必須要趕快處理"},{"start":11447.253,"end":11470.331,"text":"不過我覺得加重重罰以外事實上應該還要看到配套我先請教一下警政署酒駕臨檢事實上是可以針對於高風險的地區甚至某一些時間點或某一些路段像可能事實上喝春酒或者是尾牙的時候那你們可能會加長去部署來提高嚇阻的效果那獨駕呢"},{"start":11472.047,"end":11495.684,"text":"獨駕也是針對那個高就是每一個縣市的轄區狀況不一樣那可能有一些地方它可能是一些毒品人口比較多的地方那那個地方就會列為高風險的一個你的時間點會要怎麼抓呢因為我們自己在看酒駕你們大概有時候會選擇在晚上的時間所以我就在想問說你們到底怎麼去因應"},{"start":11497.392,"end":11522.017,"text":"又有要擴大臨檢的一些規劃了嗎那執行的時間點跟勤務的策略要怎麼設計才能提高那個查緝的效果是 跟委員報告我們五月份開始都已經有做一個擴大的一個專案那包括全國性的專案包括各縣市警察局自己的一個專案那這都是針對獨家的一個攔檢的一個有一個月了嗎 效果如何"},{"start":11522.845,"end":11539.381,"text":"所以五月份大概明顯的增加很多的一個獨駕的一個案件那我要再問就是說續問說警政署如何協助第一線員警因為酒駕車窗搖下來你大概看他的整個狀態你都可以判讀的出來那怎麼去針對於這樣子的一個獨駕儀式獨駕怎麼去辨識"},{"start":11543.985,"end":11571.522,"text":"第一個當然是這個車子它是有沒有異常的一個狀況就是說它是不是有搖擺或者是那個忽快忽慢的這些狀況這是從外觀的一個情況來判斷這一個車子的部分那另外一個就是攔下來之後用我們現在所用的快篩的一個試劑來檢測是不是有一個獨駕的一個陽性的反應所以所有的你的警政人員都已經有"},{"start":11572.355,"end":11589.776,"text":"做教育訓練跟判斷指引或者是整個快篩的銜接的流程都已經做好這個我們都作業程序都發下去好謝謝署長那部長就是酒駕有我們的酒駕職嘛那獨駕就涉及到不同獨品不同代謝時間不同"},{"start":11591.758,"end":11609,"text":"簡體第一線執法跟法院認定大家都更複雜了所以我想問的是說伊多米子這類毒品有專家指出它代謝速度快如果採檢的時間延後的話尿液的濃度可能會下降甚至驗不到這部分法務部怎麼因應"},{"start":11610.782,"end":11637.044,"text":"這部分在採尿的就是由現場執行的警察同仁來做處理的當然我們也知道這個特性那警方這部分在查緝的時候因為他用快篩嘛快篩試劑他很快就會判斷這有沒有適用毒品嘛那這樣的話可以立即來採尿那因為這個伊東米爾的確是那個半衰期但很快很快就沒有了所以我想這部分大家也都在搶時間"},{"start":11638.605,"end":11665.077,"text":"對 那再來續問說如果未來唾液快篩的陽性是作為第一線即使攔阻跟人車分離跟後續採驗的依據還是會進一步成為我們刑法責任的依據是 那我也很關心就是一個採尿這部分因為我們現在採尿的一個檢驗的一個制度跟相關育子的規定這個是由食藥署的這部分它有一個濫用藥物"},{"start":11666.518,"end":11671.376,"text":"尿液檢驗的作為的準則那我想我們都是會做這樣的一個依照這個規定來做一個處理"},{"start":11673.354,"end":11701.533,"text":"我支持法務部要針對提高我們的獨家的刑責可是在刑法修法嚴格的同時應該要針對於跟衛福部跨部會建立一個獨家採證的SOP還有呢讓攬查跟我們的快篩跟檢驗跟送驗起訴到法院審理都能夠銜接相關的研議的一個進度是不是請法務部一個月內提供我們辦公室是好"},{"start":11702.284,"end":11707.47,"text":"那就麻煩謝謝 謝謝委員那部長跟副長都請回接下來請衛福部好"},{"start":11718.905,"end":11743.974,"text":"我過去一直在總諮詢和部會諮詢都在追電子菸那電子菸對青少年影響非常大因為電子菸事實上是一多名只常見的一個使用載具這已經不是菸害健康的問題也牽扯到獨家跟社會安全的一個風險我當然知道國健署現在在談青少年電子菸使用率主要是引用青少年吸菸劑健康行為調查那這個調查也參考WHO跟"},{"start":11746.235,"end":11760.073,"text":"美國的CDC的方法有專業基礎我不否定但我要問的是衛福部怎麼處理這個調查方法本身的限制第一這是學生無記名的自填問卷所以電子菸現在違法宣導加強力道"},{"start":11761.554,"end":11782.323,"text":"學生有可能會怕被知道不敢承認造成了低報所以我們看你們也講數據有下降所以衛福部知不知道有沒有去做就是思考如何利用問卷修正技術來修正或是用校安的通報衛生局裁罰跟網路的查記跟警證資料或電子"},{"start":11783.221,"end":11805.311,"text":"煙的那個查緝平台的資料和問卷結果的交叉比對有去做這些嗎有報告委員我們從去年底我們已經開始在檢討因為也會擔心有低估的問題所以我們去年底重新在檢討相關的調查方法可不可以有些精進那現在有已經討論出來了嗎檢討了那已經有新的那個調查新的方法應該是明年會實測對所以今年還是不會應該兩年一次計畫"},{"start":11810.632,"end":11836.682,"text":"因為這個調查母體既然是在校學生那CDC也有說這是調查的一個限制因為不包含中輟休學你調查還是校內學生還有長期缺課或非在學的那個青少年可這些小孩反而事實上是電子煙違禁那個有煙油的那個曝露風險會更高的一群所以更需要我們的支持所以衛福部你有沒有跟教育部警政署社家署地方的"},{"start":11837.483,"end":11839.629,"text":"邵府會建立一個補充的監測機制"},{"start":11841.431,"end":11870.467,"text":"因為這群人你們現在是沒辦法掌握到的對 包委 因為可能過往我們都比較偏向科學性的調查那我想未來可能Maybe也請兒少代表給告訴也可以參與應該怎麼可以修正整個一個那個調查的方式可能我要請你們提供這些相關的資料給我們是說你們接下來準備怎麼做不是說Maybe Maybe就是好像不確定因為為什麼因為我們總是要去掌握這一群這一群人反而事實上是接觸的使用率事實上是比較"},{"start":11872.448,"end":11895.357,"text":"那我就要接著問說調查後你到底怎麼用因為這份青少年的吸菸劑健康行為的調查不只是問使用率也有問電子菸取得的方式銷售點的廣告或是促銷同儕跟親友的來源換句話說政府你不是沒有資料而是這些資料有沒有真正的轉成是政策所以我先確認一次性這樣子"},{"start":11896.678,"end":11910.867,"text":"全國性的調查的完整預算是多少?因為我掌握到的是114年光是行政數目管理標案就是大約400萬如果加上失策人員的訓練跟其他成本的話大概至少500萬這個數字是不是正確的?是正確的嗎?如果現在沒辦法回答的話因為時間關係可能就要再麻煩會後提供因為為什麼?因為我覺得"},{"start":11922.816,"end":11945.568,"text":"請你們要提供這完整的 包含行政事務 私策的訓練資料的一個處理跟統計方式 跟報告撰寫 跟署內的人力的成本 請提供給我那我更要問的是說 花了這些資源做調查 最後形成什麼政策因為我常常覺得數據才可以去引導政策那你如果調查完數據 只是訴諸高閣沒有用"},{"start":11946.707,"end":11969.33,"text":"就有關電子煙的部分我們大概是從三個階段一個就是從源頭的供應再來就是中段的販售還有最後的查處那我們大概是從這樣上中下游的方式來做一個整個電子煙的仿製那再來就是可能也有提供給校方包括老師有關整個電子煙的一個理解電子煙跟加熱煙的不同或者一些相關的辨識資料"},{"start":11971.841,"end":11995.598,"text":"副署長 問卷都已經問到 青少年最近一次電子菸從哪裡取得是網路平台 社群網站 通學 親友跟實體店面還是免費取得如果這些資料沒有變成具體後端你持續去做追蹤的話沒有對應到平台要不要下架 衛生局去稽查警政的溯源 教育部的校園通報的話那根本就是沒有意義的"},{"start":11996.485,"end":12023.376,"text":"既然做出來了然後沒有後續的那怎麼可能解決問題呢所以我要求衛福部一個月內提出書面報告因為調查不能只是公佈百分比百分比有得到結果沒有後端的因應措施的話是沒有用的所以我也不能只是說使用率下降既然政府做這麼詳細調查就應該拿來轉為政策工具來清楚說明這些調查之後我怎麼去應對措施多久一個月內OK嗎好一個月內給委員資料好謝謝"},{"start":12026.343,"end":12047.105,"text":"好 謝謝林委員那接下來我先處理會議時間我們上午會議時間就繼續進行到所有登記發言委員都詢答結束為止接下來就請謝一芬委員發言好 謝謝主席我想要請鄭部長跟廖副署長好 請部長跟副署長"},{"start":12048.328,"end":12072.114,"text":"不好意思喔 我只有五分鐘 我不會超時喔然後我有簡單三個問題第一個問題就是說我看到警政署其實近年來他們獨家的茶企的情況非常的成績非常的好喔那但是為什麼就是在茶企這麼好的情況下但是我們獨家的這個案件並沒有下降那是不是在其他的部分出了什麼問題"},{"start":12073.154,"end":12083.308,"text":"那有沒有辦法我想請問一下就是部長喔有沒有辦法未來怎麼樣子降低這個毒價以及降低毒品的這個氾濫的問題呢"},{"start":12085.613,"end":12109.452,"text":"謝謝委員 毒價最近為什麼會這麼多就是因為我們有要求強力的一個查緝那因為新興毒品現在的一個實用上的一個形態的改變它就結合電子菸所以跟以前那個實用的那個比較不方便的完全就不一樣所以它用電子菸用那個煙油下去它一面開車就一面用"},{"start":12110.032,"end":12131.095,"text":"所以那個方便會變成他沒有警戒心那加上我們伊東米子只要一適用下去馬上就反應辭返啦行動就怪異啦包括意識模糊等等這個現象所以非常非常的危險那這種先驅顏料這原來就是有些毒梟就是用這些先驅顏料因為以前沒有管制沒有管制那他改變他的化學結構就變成"},{"start":12132.856,"end":12150.287,"text":"濫用的一個物質所以我們就趕在113年趕緊把它列入第三級後來同年又改列第二級那我們現在就加強查緝所以為什麼這些毒價就多的原因就是因為我們就是因為我們加強查緝就發現到這些的這些的犯罪行為"},{"start":12153.568,"end":12168.777,"text":"所以我們希望用提高刑度、義務沒縮、嚴審一顆罰金加強應用大院的5月15號的預防性羈押把不能安全駕駛納入所以我們才有申請羈押所以獨駕的這些問題我們加強查緝案件就會多"},{"start":12173.42,"end":12196.007,"text":"但是有一個問題是現在因為偉陽性的問題我們剛才說特意檢查偉陽性的問題那怎麼樣子加速這個尿液檢查呢不會讓就是說未來在法院要申請這個羈押的時候就是像現在一樣還是會有無保請回的狀況嘛是不是那怎麼樣增加那個證據力呢"},{"start":12197.768,"end":12224.614,"text":"他那個尿液快篩是初步這是一個快篩的機那現在目前的這個是陽性跟後來的尿液的檢驗他是很match的那個是氣候度是相當高後溢跟尿液的檢驗後來後來的檢驗因為尿液不可能那麼快嘛那那個那個快篩那個拖曳快篩就跟我們那個酒駕那個快篩那個很快馬上那個給我們一個可以逮捕現行犯跟那個申請羈押的一個依據嘛"},{"start":12225.154,"end":12247.439,"text":"一個依據但是判罪以後判罪當然就是以尿液檢驗的為準但是因為他如果中間有那個肇事弱智人死傷我們希望他生壓我們擔心那個有時候快篩是那個脫衣快篩會法院沒辦法那個說服法官所以我們有一個尿液的快速的檢驗機希望趕在24小時最慢24小時內把它完成"},{"start":12248.559,"end":12276.083,"text":"那這個什麼時候可以完成因為你沒有辦法完成我們現在有快餐機有那個致死的尤其是致死的我想用專人來送然後跟那個三大實驗室還有一些的簽約的一些的民間檢驗機構來加進來最後驗照一種毒品因為你現在沒有辦法讓他就是你讓他在法院一直這樣子無保請回那會造成民眾對於司法界認為司法界執法不力"},{"start":12276.483,"end":12293.178,"text":"那造成這些罪犯一直藏起來會不會形成這樣子的一個方式跟委員報告事實上吳保請為是其實我們那個羈押的核准率羈押的核准率像我們那個依托米子的核准率是有就有"},{"start":12296.745,"end":12308.752,"text":"總共61件我們就從5月15號到現在申請期要獲成61件有61件這個當然也不是只有一通名字啦包括其他那個毒品啦只要生壓率就有61件生壓件數有61件"},{"start":12312.389,"end":12337.078,"text":"所以事實上就是要看那個法院那邊的一個還是麻煩部長就是說你們這還是必須要想辦法啦因為就是說怎麼樣子增加證據力然後怎麼樣子嚇死那讓民眾跟就是說基層第一線的員警還有查緝的檢察官都不會受到這樣子相關的影響嗎是不是這個是我們需要來做的不然你看我們彰化縣發生這麼多"},{"start":12339.099,"end":12360.153,"text":"我們那兩件都看告了 那個我們也沒辦法接受因為他也有撞到人 那個不要說這個檢驗然後從其他的情況就可以推出來的那個證明說他有那個食用毒品經驗這個其實在185 刑法185-3現行法都有相關的規定就可以成立這個犯罪了嘛所以我們認為這個是我們認為我們沒辦法接受所以我們就看告了"},{"start":12363.075,"end":12374.899,"text":"所以拜託好不好拜託大家能夠協助一下我們讓保障我們民眾跟一般第一線的在這個查緝的這樣子稽查人員的這樣的辛勞好不好好謝謝委員好謝謝謝委員那接下來我們請呃李坤城委員發言"},{"start":12390.117,"end":12393.05,"text":"好 謝謝主席我們請法務部鄭部長好 請鄭部長"},{"start":12397.862,"end":12426.636,"text":"委員好部長今天大家都很關心因為兩件事情都是發生在彰化一個是在5月30號他已經是吸毒自駕撞到了然後當場一驗這個唾液快篩也是陽性的那結果呢這個檢察官有想要預防性的羈押那地方法院彰化地方法院又把他判無保請回然後呢6月4號隔幾天不到一禮拜6月4號這更嚴重"},{"start":12427.336,"end":12447.086,"text":"他是撞到了這一個分鎖長這個陳分鎖長他的雙腿被撞斷還有一個陳姓的員警呢 雙手也受傷然後呢 也被送到這個法院去然後後來也無保請回了我先請問一下 部長這個在彰化地方法院這兩件事情是同一個法官嗎這個 這個要司法院來負不是 你一定知道啊 是不是同一個法官啊"},{"start":12457.782,"end":12461.205,"text":"怎麼會沒有去問咧?是不是同一個法官?是不是同一個法官?這個不能跟大家講嗎?這有什麼難處?這不是什麼個案 這大家都很關注的案子啊不是媒體 我在這邊問你 叫我去問媒體是不是同一個法官?"},{"start":12486.073,"end":12513.518,"text":"這有什麼好難回答的這個我沒有這部分的資訊沒有這部分的資訊總會沒有這部分的資訊呢這個檢察官檢察官這個要預防性羈押那第一個我講那個5月30號那個你們有提抗告嘛對不對兩件都有提抗告兩件都有提抗告那對啊那提抗告不知道是不是同樣一個法官喔因為那個抗告不會寫法官他是寫那個那個被告跟那個案號不是啊所以你知不知道是不是同一個法官我再去問"},{"start":12514.488,"end":12528.858,"text":"你現在馬上問在我們實習院之內馬上去問這個不能回答嗎?這個不能回答嗎?我現在馬上問我現在馬上問那你早上我看你也是你也是震怒嘛所以這個我沒辦法接受"},{"start":12530.776,"end":12557.71,"text":"喔 是同一位法官是同一個法官 對是同一個法官 怎麼這麼巧都同一個法官這個我不知道 他那個彰化他們可能有強制處分庭喔因為我對彰化第一院法院他們那個法官他那個所以 同一個法官他用的理由都一樣嗎就是說陽性快篩不能當作這個預防羈押的理由然後呢 或是認為說這個毒販他沒有反覆實施同一個犯罪行為嗎"},{"start":12559.36,"end":12576.448,"text":"他那個第一次的確是委員講的就是說那個托一塊塞不能當作申請羈押的一個認定他有獨家的一個室友那第二次的認為是說他第二次的他放掉五毛請回他是用那個沒有反复實施之語"},{"start":12577.518,"end":12591.715,"text":"對啊 其實就差不多嘛 差不多的理由啊我就懷疑說那為什麼這個法官對於獨駕這件事情而且是撞斷腿喔 他是跑到死巷之後 然後倒車"},{"start":12592.876,"end":12620.888,"text":"把這個所長的水撞斷然後認為說他們有反覆實施之餘所以我們也不服嘛 我們的看法就跟委員的一樣嘛我們沒辦法接受這種的無保情人你們沒辦法接受 你們是只能提抗告而已啊抗告的話我們會詳述這個有羈押必要的一個事由那你們剛開始有羈押必要的理由一定都寫得很清楚啊它是毒塞 也是陽性啊所以要給二審 現在是有抗告到那個"},{"start":12623.13,"end":12642.905,"text":"台中告婚約這個判決 跟大家的嘗試 落差太大了那我們政府喊得這麼大聲說要嚴懲嚴抓 結果地方法院就說 阿烏包請回把所長的腿都撞斷了 阿烏包請回這個是我們沒辦法接受的"},{"start":12644.167,"end":12665.839,"text":"所以我們認為這個獨駕的確是很可惡造成用戶人的安全甚至質詢員警的這些的安全甚至還以前發生過獨駕撞死撞死了就算有三重啊去年啊就算有三重啊所以那個警察官所以後來我們才把伊多米子從三級提升到二級現在要把二級提升到一級啊對啊那竟然是同一個法官"},{"start":12666.84,"end":12682.325,"text":"我不曉得他的法學素養為什麼跟我們一般老百姓的法學常識落差這麼大也跟您有落差吧我沒辦法接受你沒辦法接受那我問你 我剛剛也有提到我們現在都是拖曳快篩"},{"start":12683.479,"end":12701.41,"text":"陽性就可以這個申請預防性羈押嗎是不是這個我們遇到這種我們希望能夠能夠羈押後準所以我們會用另外再輔助那個尿液的用用快篩的一個機制當然我們希望在24小時那當然可以順利的話可以說到"},{"start":12702.57,"end":12728.465,"text":"幾個小時之內能夠驗出來那至少把這個時間縮短嘛對 就驗到 只要其中它不然的毒品只要驗到一種毒品的話就是獨家了嘛對因為它 因為現在其實獨家往往就混合性毒品用那個那個電子...我知道 那現在現在很多的法官他認為說啊你這個有可能尾陽啊啊所以要輔助這個尿液的篩檢對 一定要這樣的話那這個時間能不能縮短啊不然你這個測出來之後那法官就放了啊"},{"start":12728.965,"end":12751.725,"text":"跟委員報告有一個機制有一個快速檢驗的一個機制那這部分我們三大實驗室中央三大實驗室跟15家民間採購機構我們這部分都有要求了所以這個要趕快把這個時間縮短我們希望謝謝委員跟我們這個指示我想我們會再做一個要求"},{"start":12752.145,"end":12752.947,"text":"現在我們對於獨駕的車子是當場可以沒路"},{"start":12767.438,"end":12794.751,"text":"目前 扣車 現在是先扣車對 目前是只有扣車然後如果致人受重傷或死亡的話才會有沒入那未來我們要修法是不是都是你只要獨駕我們就可以沒入是 我們要朝這個方向修正我認為這個出發點是好的我們也希望說不是只有扣車 沒入但是會不會有遇到一些問題就是說你如果是善意的第三人然後或者是他去租車子去撞"},{"start":12796.117,"end":12819.031,"text":"這個會有排除 就是說它還是有行政程序法的一個規定就是說如果它是 譬如說它是租車這有排除條款這個我希望你們趕快沒入車讓這個事情 趕快提法因為我覺得這至少有警惕性主席不好 我最後一個時間問我問這一個教育部啦 這個跟法務部有相關"},{"start":12819.71,"end":12841.748,"text":"現在暑假快到了啦然後這個我們也很擔心在暑假這段期間就是學生在使用電子菸或是毒品這方面有可能趨勢會上升那你們現在是說在開學之後你們會針對我老師是高風險的學生還是怎麼樣你們有一個就是利用這個脫衣快篩來測試的一個對象嗎是這樣子嗎"},{"start":12845.13,"end":12871.55,"text":"跟委員報告我們有一個特定人員名冊的一個題列就是會針對高風險的這個個案或是過去可能曾經也有這個吸毒的學生或是休學之後再復學的這些學生會建立這個名冊所以你們有這個名冊我們會定期有一個名冊的建立這個名冊大概全國有多少大概名冊你知道嗎大概八千八千好那問一下那你們現在打算到各個學校去做這一個"},{"start":12872.728,"end":12896.643,"text":"那個脫衣快篩的那大概數量是多少脫衣快篩四季 夠嗎目前的四季是先採購五千季會來先協助到我們22縣市跟學校那會先用分配的一個概念先協助他們那已經也跟內政部就是警政署合作會納入我們的共同公益契約每個學校兩季都不到啊"},{"start":12897.043,"end":12914.991,"text":"因為這個時間點就是我們先採購就是後續他們目前也都還有尿液篩檢的這個機制那因為是多重管道我們想說先搭配可能還有些學校會觀望那我問一下部長我們這個法國部是不是有一個毒品防治基金這方面可以來一併來做處理嗎毒品防治基金就是補助那個就是各部會的有關毒品防治的這些的經會"},{"start":12925.578,"end":12942.93,"text":"那這部分教育部他有一個校園的毒品的防治計畫這個要提他們要提計畫由教育部來提對啊我意思說就是校園再拖一塊塞這個啊這部分他們可以提好不好請教育部來跟法務部來提這個需求好不好我們希望我們當然不希望說"},{"start":12945.49,"end":12969.064,"text":"這個在學校裡面因為你知道 測這個東西其實對學生來講我覺得當然也是一個一個一個對他們來講是認為說他們好像有做這些事情但是這也是有些有必要因為畢竟過了一個暑假之後啦那如果經費不足的地方請法務部再予以協助好不好好 謝謝 謝謝主席 好 謝謝好 謝謝李委員好 那接下來我們有請王宏威委員發言"},{"start":12979.602,"end":13000.935,"text":"好謝謝主席我請內政部警政署今天是副署長還有衛福部今天是有國建署還有食藥署副署長是兩位副署長另外速發部今天有速發部數位產業署經濟組的組長是組長好"},{"start":13010.339,"end":13012.8,"text":"大家好,我想先請國建署和數位署的組長先上來"},{"start":13021.96,"end":13042.061,"text":"我想請問一下,我們今天談到喪屍煙彈為什麼那麼容易取得那當然跟它的載具,電子煙的一個氾濫有關係那非常諷刺的是,電子煙事實上在我們現在是禁止的"},{"start":13042.802,"end":13065.491,"text":"可是今天不管你今天在馬路上在校園甚至在我們立法院或者我過去服務的這個台北市議會這個抽電子菸的其實非常非常多我記得我在台北市議會女生廁所上那個門上還有人特別想說不要在廁所裡面抽電子菸"},{"start":13066.843,"end":13085.244,"text":"所以就是說其實電子煙的氾濫是一個公開的秘密所以我說為什麼這麼荒謬那為什麼這個電子煙可以這麼容易取得其實跟網路上的取得容易而且便宜大有關係"},{"start":13086.405,"end":13115.059,"text":"那我知道我們衛福部有針對就是在販賣電子煙的這個網路上封網但是呢我必須講成效不彰以稀釋電子煙的這個民眾他們很容易取得第一個他由地上轉為地下他地上可能如果說他在網路上會被你們抓到或者會處分所以他們現在很多都是用Line的群組"},{"start":13116.379,"end":13140.948,"text":"用LINE的群組然後直接告訴你有些你都可以直接在那邊詢問有些什麼樣口味的價格在LINE的群組裡面非常非常的多那另外即便你們在封網他們也可以用掛羊頭賣狗肉的方式他講他不是電子菸但是呢譬如說像這個網站事實上你們沒有封到的像一次性菸感"},{"start":13142.068,"end":13156.359,"text":"其實它這裡面呢 就是非常非常多 任君選擇所以我要講就是說 喪屍焰彈防不勝防是來自於電子煙的氾濫 而且是長期的氾濫而且它非常便宜"},{"start":13157.543,"end":13167.55,"text":"可能有很多人出國 別人去日本 韓國都還會幫忙去戴因為它那便宜 我聽說 我有詢問那價錢200多塊 300多塊然後樣式很多 然後很Fashion"},{"start":13173.254,"end":13193.718,"text":"所以我覺得在電子煙的這個在網路上的查緝非常非常重要所以我今天為什麼要提醒我們衛福部還有速發部我們速發部要加把勁了啦今天我也特別提到我們速發部連運動部的網站都被這些色情網站攻陷了"},{"start":13194.438,"end":13223.036,"text":"前面之前是什麼光電我們政府的所有的光電的這個網站全部被色情網站攻陷現在又出現運動部所以速發部每年這麼多預算請你們要加把勁怎麼樣讓這些電子煙在網路上的這個氾濫應該要有防範那另外呢我再請我們剛才我有請那個我們的警政署還有我們的食藥署"},{"start":13226.2,"end":13249.852,"text":"另外一個議題我們其實從上週到今天的專案報告我們委員關心的非常非常多從上游的防堵到下游的查緝到法院像剛才也有特別提到連我們部長都震怒這個法院就隨便放人那我要請問的是"},{"start":13251.713,"end":13256.957,"text":"我們現在針對這個上市煙彈好特別提到的就是呢這個"},{"start":13259.673,"end":13288.455,"text":"依托米脂它的半衰期非常短過去甚至發生過如果你超過6個小時你原來你的濃度是達到這個法定域值就是法定值的但是你超過6個小時它就降下來了它非常快速的降下來然後它就沒事了那剛才部長我們法務部長講說我們現在拼能在24小時之內要完成檢驗"},{"start":13289.756,"end":13303.242,"text":"但是即使如此不只是依托彌止 其實很多毒品它的半衰殖都非常非常的快它在非常快速 它就降下來了所以我想請問署長 兩個副署長我們警政署和食藥署"},{"start":13309.022,"end":13337.016,"text":"有些專家建議我們這個喪屍煙彈的標準就是它裡面毒品它殘留的這個標準值應該把它降低這個降低不是說讓我們的檢驗放寬而是它經過半衰期之後不會輕易的就放過其實它是有稀釋而且它在當下它可能還遠遠超過那個標準值"},{"start":13338.917,"end":13364.508,"text":"可是他如果拖幾個小時來做尿液檢查也好或者拖液檢查也好然後他的半衰值又非常非常快所以在這個標準是不是要把它調整也就是降低這個法定預值能夠更能夠掌握在他獨駕的當時事實上他已經超標了"},{"start":13365.789,"end":13371.195,"text":"這個是不是先請我們 這應該是食藥署的我們先請食藥署來回答跟委員報告 那這個預值的部分我們在競速會召開會議來討論那目前會朝向下調降的方式來實施好 所謂競速大概準備什麼時候呢預計一個月內一個月內喔會完成公告"},{"start":13385.646,"end":13394.55,"text":"一個月內完成公告好 那我請問一下你們是要向下調降法定預值現在是現在是五十嘛對不對現在是五十是 目前是五十"},{"start":13401.154,"end":13416.338,"text":"那你們要往下調整是大概會到因為這個要衡量到所有國內在執行尿液檢驗的檢驗機關他的儀器設備跟他的實驗室能力那經過我們初步了解的話目前國內的實驗室絕大多數應該可以調降就是降低大概到25Nm應該是沒有問題"},{"start":13418.539,"end":13444.054,"text":"所以可以降低到一半是所以不要讓他可以僥倖因為他的半衰期非常快然後就可以僥倖的就是逃脫這樣子是的好 謝謝這點蠻重要那個我們警政署副組長要補充嗎那這個部分我們也是配合那個食藥署這邊做當然他預執做調整之後我們除了這個檢驗之外另外就是快速檢驗的部分這包括三大檢驗機構他的一個檢驗的時間我們希望能夠盡量縮短"},{"start":13448.398,"end":13473.135,"text":"就是檢驗要快速然後法定的預值調降不要讓他們僥倖過關這點是非常重要的這樣子可以讓更多就是說你心存僥倖你吸食這些毒品不管是我剛剛講說不管是伊脫米齒其實很多你包含安非他命都是一樣他的都很快的他只要能夠拖拖拖拖幾個小時之後他就過關了好不好好謝謝"},{"start":13477.619,"end":13503.408,"text":"好 謝謝王委員 那接下來我們有請陳冠廷委員發言你好 我們請部長好 請部長"},{"start":13510.152,"end":13534.514,"text":"喂 委員好部長好 部長今天我想要針對其實不僅僅是獨家酒駕那還有一些重大犯罪者關於重大犯罪者這一些他們的相關的照片他們的發布那我們先來看一下這是嘉義市他把這個獨家的雷犯公告那就我所知他不僅是獨犯的這個"},{"start":13536.448,"end":13565.161,"text":"可以去做這樣的公告包含酒駕也是這樣我這樣了解是不是正確的這個是道交條例裡面對獨駕這些有一些的依據第三十五條嘛他說十年內再犯酒駕獨駕或者是拒撤者他都已經明電公共機關可以來去公佈姓名照片跟違法的事實那我認為這是一個很好的一個做法因為第一個他有這足夠的嚇阻力但是我們來看一下下一張照片"},{"start":13567.632,"end":13588.329,"text":"這個是我們最近重大的自然犯罪跟性犯罪那如果我們如果仔細看的話可能還會被發覺到說你奇怪怎麼警察先生他的照片沒有模糊反而是這一個性犯罪的犯者他竟然是把他模糊化的那我們認為說這樣子來比較一下來比對一下前面的"},{"start":13589.67,"end":13606.458,"text":"跟日本的做法不管是重大的自然犯罪暴力犯罪性犯罪全部都能夠用清晰的方式來去做這一個公佈那我們是認為說這是一個有必要性的首先他們是日本媒體對於被逮捕的榮譽者他們會報導他們的姓名"},{"start":13607.699,"end":13631.351,"text":"年齡職業居住地連部一項公開搜索的案件甚至一些部分的重要的細節他們都會藉由公共利益的原因來去做這個公佈甚至是他們日本警察廳他本身也有指名手配的頁面公開的重要指名手配被嫌疑者的這個海報讓這個各都道府縣的警察都能夠來去發送"},{"start":13632.512,"end":13647.507,"text":"那這個部分他們會把嫌疑人的資訊公開媒體就用政府官方的資訊來去做報導所以這個報導是準確的那甚至他會把年齡身高等等的這個社傳發明請提供線索請民眾來去提供線索"},{"start":13647.807,"end":13675.1,"text":"所以說他會說你頁面上面可能會說就算如果你是在旁邊看到這樣的人的話請把這個情報提供這個警察廳等等這樣子的資訊那我們認為說對整個這個犯罪的嚇阻會有比較大的幫助尤其是我們當公共的風險到達一定的程度的時候我認為人民之心風險是有它的公共利益在的不要為那些罪犯打上馬賽克請問部長您的立場是怎麼樣"},{"start":13677.496,"end":13697.905,"text":"這部分的確是委員有提到就是公共利益以及個人隱私資料的一個權衡的一個問題但是就是說有關於那個性侵案件的一些加害人的這些隱私的一個保護這規定在性侵害的一個犯罪的防治法那這部分是衛福部的主管"},{"start":13698.325,"end":13718.718,"text":"那另外我也關心如果說有少年的話這部分是屬於少事法的這是司法院的主管法規那這部分我們都尊重那個那些主管部會的這些的立法部長我同意就是想說因為部長你們是法務部那所以說你們對於整個刑法上面對於整個"},{"start":13719.739,"end":13738.431,"text":"加害人的部分會有更完整的了解是不是部長各位站在你的立場上面你會不會認為說有一些重大的就是直接會影響到社區因為韓國也可以這麼做日本也可以這麼做你們會不會建議司法院會不會建議衛福部採取更積極主要的做法你看這一個"},{"start":13740.049,"end":13758.224,"text":"這部分我們還是要就經過法案要做一個這部分的公佈部長我同意要更保守或者是說更保護或者是更公佈要社區的安全的這部分要公佈那這部分我們不是還是要請沒關係部長我簡單來講一下然後再聽部長的看法"},{"start":13758.624,"end":13776.772,"text":"我的原因是因為說我們站在的立場是要保護這一個被害人但是我們是要警示社區並且把這個加害人的資訊我們不是我們要保護被害人喔但是加害人的資訊為了防止他們累犯再犯"},{"start":13777.652,"end":13800.548,"text":"我們其實看到很多狀況就是說一些涉及這種重大的這種刑案的時候每次我們的馬賽克打了之後我們根本就不知道他是同樣的一個人但是他不斷的重複的在犯案他很明顯的造成公共利益的損害的時候部長你會不會建議衛福部跟司法院來去修正一些不管是命令或者是法條讓這樣子這些"},{"start":13803.45,"end":13828.755,"text":"這些罪犯不會躲在螢幕背後他們等於是不會被檢視的甚至還有最近很多重大的這種性侵刑案緩刑就離開了那民眾是怎麼有辦法去避免這些人累犯再加害呢所以這是我們擔心的部分部長可不可以提供你的一些建議我們會果納一件其實現在以政策不公開的作為辦法其實例外是可以公開的"},{"start":13829.915,"end":13850.139,"text":"那這部分我們會再跟那個衛福部來做一個協助他們一個立法的我們提供我們的意見尤其是像委員的這些意見我想這個像外國一些法案像梅根法案還是什麼他們都是有這樣的是保護社區的安全而做例外的一個讓大家"},{"start":13850.379,"end":13879.919,"text":"所以部長做例外的這個建議這部分我想我們會跟衛福部還有跟世文表達這些意見因為部長我跟你講原因其實有一些重大的公眾人物他們其實經過司法上面的這個不管是起訴還是什麼後來是被證明無罪的可是這些人因為他是公眾人物所以他不斷的不斷的他的這個榮報全部都是在媒體上面不斷的去重複反而是這些實質上面就已經接近現行犯不是接近現行犯這一位就是現行犯"},{"start":13880.979,"end":13902.664,"text":"部長 我們右邊這一位是現行犯耶現行犯竟然還給他打馬賽克這個情何以堪啊你看下面那麼小字 媒體下面小字說右 右邊是犯人 那個字體之小你到底 那個警察很可憐耶"},{"start":13904.442,"end":13924.819,"text":"部長 這個他是現行犯他準備好空屋要不是有民眾來建議勇為的話這種我們用馬賽克給他保護這就是這個衛福部今天人有來不然我們請衛福部各位簡單的講一下部長也麻煩你為了會後給他們建議好不好表示你們的意見 表示你們的建議"},{"start":13926.353,"end":13932.917,"text":"我希望說這個要快因為我們如果說東亞其他各國日本韓國他們不僅僅是把正面的照片來去讓社區有警示來下一頁下一頁"},{"start":13955.925,"end":13979.972,"text":"正面側面全方位加害人的處遇哪有什麼處遇啊這個重大這種影響到公共公益的怎麼會讓他們的處遇比起被害人還好我們看到很多被害人都是被緩刑耶這種最嚴重的罪行判得最輕又不能公開他的照相"},{"start":13981.247,"end":13997.705,"text":"這實在是對被害人情何以堪所以我們要保護的是被害人絕對不可以有任何被害人的名字資訊等等的全部都要完整的保護甚至他們的地點被採訪的方式都必須要嚴格的保護但是對於加害人"},{"start":13998.928,"end":14015.279,"text":"重大自翻我們剛剛講到獨駕我們剛剛講到酒駕我們剛剛講到這個殺人案全部都是打馬賽克這怎麼會這樣子啊這實在是非常奇怪的一件事情我覺得這個我們必須要在前面一頁現行犯耶"},{"start":14016.485,"end":14040.28,"text":"部長這個應該可以足夠給微服部意見因為這個就是現行犯因為當然這個的確是有社區安全的一個考慮但是那個新鮮防治法其實在52條如果說當然是如果有通緝找不到人那當然就是該館警察機關可以將身份資料刊載在機關的網站報紙或其他方法來公開"},{"start":14042.741,"end":14067.753,"text":"這是一種的方式另外當然我們也擔心就是說這個偵查還沒有結束還是怎麼樣的時候什麼公開的時機比如說我們還在偵查中到底會不會成立這個還不知道對所以那時候就要公開嗎所以這個大概還要再做訪問的討論所以這個就是需要你們專業意見就是有一些是真的很明顯的現行犯可能就要麻煩部長來去做一些來去做一些跟其他衛福部的溝通好 謝謝"},{"start":14069.633,"end":14092.438,"text":"好 謝謝陳委員 好 我們接下來請范園委員發言好 謝謝昭緯 有請部長好 請部長委員好"},{"start":14097.382,"end":14107.851,"text":"部長好我想今天就獨駕防治的部分我比較關注的就是源頭的管制是否足夠我想行政院已經講了我們有三個方向源頭嚇阻強化查緝還有重懲獨駕三個部分法務部最近也提出了修法要加重刑罰剛剛很多的委員都有問過因為現在以喪屍煙彈為例的話其實民眾的反應是還蠻強烈的"},{"start":14126.886,"end":14152.402,"text":"因為吸食者本身沒有辦法思考當然也會喪失駕駛的判斷力加重罰則我認為是嚇阻犯罪的重要手段不過當然不是唯一的手段更需要加強管制毒品的源頭台北市政府的警察局也發現說查獲的案件以2014年度來講跟2013年度比"},{"start":14154.924,"end":14178.711,"text":"是翻倍成長所以等於是快速成長的一種毒品那當然我知道你們已經把它提升為一級毒品我想問的是源頭管理那請問一下現在關於查緝跟檢舉的誘因法務部有加強嗎因為查緝很重要可是查緝有沒有誘因要查緝還有檢舉的誘因這個部分法務部有處理嗎這個有檢舉獎金"},{"start":14183.306,"end":14195.179,"text":"有增加是不是比起過去一道行動來做一個合給的那相比於這一波的行動之前這個誘因是不是有增加呢"},{"start":14196.342,"end":14221.653,"text":"這部分我們再來檢視檢討好 那我想因為這個新聞現在大家很關注那我相信法務部的力道會夠那我擔心的就是當新聞量變少的時候那關於查緝跟檢舉的誘因是不是能夠持續的讓大家能夠努力那這部分法務部可以去了解一下看看是不是能夠考慮增加查緝跟檢舉的誘因好不好是"},{"start":14222.714,"end":14247.093,"text":"那這部分可以在多久之內給本席一個書面報告嗎是不是可以兩個月因為這部分我們還跟警政署這部分還要再來這是個長期的工作啦那兩個月可以那謝謝部長那部長請回我再來要針對教育部那我們教育部今天來的是學特斯司長蔡司長請"},{"start":14252.659,"end":14271.409,"text":"教育部在這裡面的角色我非常的關注因為我想這一波我們可以看到其實不只是這一波校園的毒品的問題是越來越嚴重那不曉得針對校園的毒品問題我剛剛有看了你們的報告你認為最重要的手段是什麼從教育部的角度"},{"start":14272.113,"end":14296.477,"text":"跟委員報告我們從防治教育部分是我們很重要的一個途徑那另外就是要發掘就是在目前是在從課程跟宣導面向那我們也知道目前在這個電子菸跟房價的部分耗高的一個部分在高中值或是大專那你知不知道為什麼青少年會想要吸食毒品嗎原因是什麼"},{"start":14296.917,"end":14315.77,"text":"因為大家都知道因為我看你們防治的達標率很高所以大家都知道毒品不好可是青少年為什麼會使用毒品真正的原因你們了解嗎我們猜想應該是也好奇然後也是同儕之間的好奇然後同儕對還有沒有"},{"start":14317.07,"end":14337.398,"text":"然後有些管道比較容易能夠接觸到好奇然後同儕跟管道那吸食毒品的跟沒有吸食毒品的同樣都有好奇對不對同樣都有同儕同樣都有管道那為什麼有些人會選擇吸食毒品有些不會這個你們知道嗎因為你剛剛說你猜"},{"start":14339.664,"end":14353.179,"text":"對這部分我們也當然會持續在了解然後因為從目前有一些可能還是在於同儕的這個壓力或是他的一個在校園裡面的一個支持度等等這部分我們都在持續來加強好"},{"start":14354.92,"end":14381.793,"text":"那我想從你剛剛的回答我認為教育部最重要的應該是要先了解原因你了解青少年為什麼會吸食毒品那才知道對症下藥那其實教育部沒有做相關的研究可是我們看了一下就是你們現在的做法都不錯可是因為不夠了解青少年接觸毒品的真正原因我是覺得資源的"},{"start":14384.034,"end":14406.004,"text":"那包含就是所謂的反毒跟毒品防治的教材可能就沒有辦法打中青少年的需求那如果你去看相關的研究你會發現譬如說所有公共媒體也研究過每八位青少年就有一位感到孤寂所以他認為是孤寂感讓毒品會趁虛而入"},{"start":14407.645,"end":14425.118,"text":"那張老師基金會是我目前唯一可以找到有針對6600位國高中生去研究青少年跟所謂的毒品濫用之間的關係那他們發現的也是一個重要的事情就是孤寂感特別是高中"},{"start":14425.718,"end":14445.025,"text":"一年級跟二年級的青少年他最容易感覺到社交上的孤立跟孤寂感那當然他如果跟主要的照顧者不管是爸爸媽媽或者是主父母關係不好的時候他也最容易陷入這個孤寂感然後需要這個毒品的使用"},{"start":14445.505,"end":14472.776,"text":"而且也發現這個毒品的使用跟網路的成癮還有跟自殺之間的關係是高度相關也就是說之前我們在處理這個青少年自殺的議題跟現在處理毒品的議題其實教育部如果重視的話它的原因都非常的高度相關所以我認為教育部應該要好好的研究真正的原因否則就你們所做的檢測來看"},{"start":14474.557,"end":14489.084,"text":"其實青少年都已經知道毒品有問題啦你的檢測的認知度它是很高的表示你宣傳大家知道這個東西有問題可是它為什麼還是高度氾濫就是我們沒有真的去處理青少年的孤寂感"},{"start":14489.764,"end":14514.722,"text":"那我也特別要提說這個時代的青少年跟我們那個時代的青少年差異很大因為你現在看他的休閒活動第一名幾乎是遊戲第二名是網路他主要的休閒活動跟當年沒有遊戲跟沒有網路的人的是非常不同的因為遊戲跟網路相對來講他是會強化社交的孤立感而不是增加所以"},{"start":14515.583,"end":14539.125,"text":"我認為就是如果你沒有做好研究的話你其實你所使用的方法都有問題那國外的研究有也是說情緒的沮喪跟生活中的負面生活事件譬如說以台灣的學者做的那個災後研究就發現那裡的國中生自殺的考慮過自殺的高達四分之一"},{"start":14539.765,"end":14563.103,"text":"所以表示一個負面的生活事件不管是父母親吵架或者是災難社區型的災情都會讓他進入到一個憂鬱的風險那也是讓他不管是自殺的可能性跟藥物的濫用都增加所以你們能不能夠這上禮拜我們幾位立委有"},{"start":14563.843,"end":14579.614,"text":"有記者會其中跟外部相關的蠻多的就是家庭照顧個反讀教育的往下還有心理輔導那我看了你們心理輔導的數據其實非常的少你等於是針對已經成癮的人再去處理那我現在講的是預防"},{"start":14580.334,"end":14598.111,"text":"那教育部是不是可以針對兒少施用毒品的成因管道跟來源先進行深入研究然後再告訴我們你們的政策解方對症下藥是什麼好不好那也檢討一下既有的反毒教育的有效性"},{"start":14598.972,"end":14619.225,"text":"因為根據你們今天的報告這反毒教育做得很好啊大家都有這個認知度顯然這個方法有問題嘛因為我們都知道青少年的毒品濫用還是很嚴重所以是不是可以針對我講的這兩個東西好好的研究之後然後再提出你們認為的方法是什麼好不好"},{"start":14621.403,"end":14645.696,"text":"那多久之內可以針對因為我剛講的研究都已經是十年前的可是他們都已經發現這個部分那是不是針對這個兒少適用毒品的成因特別是成因管道來源可能你們比較知道了那這個大概多久之內可以給本席一個報告呢研究可能需要花更多時間但可以給我一個報告那委員這部分是不是可以給我們三個月的時間"},{"start":14646.869,"end":14664.321,"text":"三個月有點久 三個月的時間我希望你們的研究已經要再進行了因為一個有效的研究 為什麼現在的宣傳明明達標了卻沒有效果那是不是可以一併做檢討"},{"start":14666.282,"end":14688.157,"text":"好 那就請教育部加油因為這個部分青少年都是我們的學子那如果毒品成癮的話他的學習效果是不會好的 好不好好 謝謝委員好 謝謝范園委員那接下來葉園芝委員葉園芝委員葉園芝委員不在那接下來我們請莊瑞雄委員"},{"start":14702.703,"end":14722.693,"text":"莊中偉今天辛苦了,前面很多,因為這個議題很熱門。謝謝莊中偉,有請法務部,政部長,還有警政署副署長有來,衛福部,國民健康署副署長有來,還有副署長,食藥署。"},{"start":14728.848,"end":14737.074,"text":"我先來請教鄭部長我今天本來其實很多問題要問但是我坐在台下還有後面記者席那邊聽完今天的委員的質詢完以後我反而有點感慨而發問一點相關但是好像是對國人有所誤解毒品的一個危害我相信在台灣台灣的社會文化裡面大家非常痛恨也就是說我們的社會是玲瓏人"},{"start":14758.729,"end":14767.697,"text":"政府的態度 毒品的危害 玲瓏忍立法院其實也是玲瓏忍但是這個玲瓏忍 政府跟"},{"start":14768.854,"end":14795.129,"text":"立法院不太一樣社會文化裡面玲瓏忍是大家討厭然後呢 在立法院裡面呢你動不動把它弄到升級到這個死刑就變成一種證據上的工具政治上的一個宣導好還是壞我不知道但是符合民粹也符合民意啊但是我要問的一個很嚴肅的問題就是說你這個毒品危害呢到底嚴不嚴重我以我個人的"},{"start":14796.474,"end":14803.157,"text":"經歷違憲經歷啊 看過了不是我自己吃毒啦但是我從 我當律師啊 我從三十年前當律師啊我那個時候來看這個這個整個 這個整個監所裡面所關的啊當我開始喔 十幾% 二十幾% 三十幾%到我做立委 第八屆進來 第九 第十 十一這樣我去看曾經啊 監所裡面啊 就是說關了這個毒品的齁我們常常說的煙毒犯超過五十%"},{"start":14826.781,"end":14841.664,"text":"社會都會覺得好嚴重監獄裡面也確實是好嚴重可是呢這個統計就也很怪啊聯合國的統計啊 國際上的統計就是說毒品的盛行率啊柏中你知道幾%嗎 標準柏中講嗎這個基本啊 六%啦六%啦這個大概三"},{"start":14856.21,"end":14869.257,"text":"3.16 有那個數目啦那當然啦 你說全世界來講3.16億啦 全世界是啦 我想到6%嘛那在美國來看的話 這個人口 盛行率就是說15歲到64歲的人口來看的話美国25%全世界這算最嚴重的澳洲18% 加拿大15% 法國11% 泰國7%"},{"start":14883.499,"end":14885.841,"text":"那些毒品上升率最低的你知不知道新加坡 台灣 南韓這些國家這些國家一趴被國際上聯合國的組織認為是無毒品的安全國家"},{"start":14899.355,"end":14902.778,"text":"但是呢 我們就看待我們因為社會上對毒品零容忍我們認為台灣的毒品好嚴重好嚴重 嚴不嚴重我也認為跟社會文化來做比較的話逐年確實是這一點多 還要再降低啦我也認為嚴重因為我們社會大眾都認為這毒品這可惡的"},{"start":14918.369,"end":14933.46,"text":"吃毒吃吃會做壞人 甚至現在毒吃處理會弄死人這個是很弔詭的一件事情啦但是本席在這個地方我要提出來了就是說你看我們這個毒品危害防治條例喔第二條裡面講的啦 最痛恨的就是"},{"start":14934.621,"end":14948.045,"text":"這耳熟能詳的 那個海洛因嘛 麻菲嘛 鴉片嘛 古柯鹼啦你去製造 去運輸 去販賣一級土品的死刑 無期徒刑 很重 但是呢"},{"start":14950.806,"end":14969.453,"text":"今天我看很多委員在講的就是說這個獨駕分類獨駕這個要怎麼去做一個防範我們現在我看行政院好像你們法務部六月份就已經公告要把這個伊東米斯要把它弄成一級毒品所以這也麻煩化學結構你要去把它做一個調整的話你這樣人仰馬翻"},{"start":14980.271,"end":15009.134,"text":"這就是說制毒的人去改變一下化學的結構的話法律跟不上我跟不上這樣的一個問題啦那當然所以我現在的感覺就是我現在的直覺就是說政府尤其是法務部我相信檢察官哪一個任何的檢察官或者我們警政署啊對於防制毒品去打擊毒品去源頭去把它做一個阻斷然後抓到以後去被一個重罰我相信在不管是"},{"start":15009.975,"end":15033.705,"text":"警察,不管是檢察官,或者是法界,大家都有這個共識,判下去都會很重啊但是呢,今天大家在說的這個,這個半衰期這個,說你如果用唾液以它去做一個改變,半衰期這個結構一改變的話,我們現在這個檢測的方式,要安裝好像不要讓那個漏網之魚逃掉嘛"},{"start":15035.189,"end":15060.943,"text":"這個我也 我也贊成但是問題我們目前檢測的方式啊最快的就唾液嘛唾液快塞那可是你這個唾液你在我們刑法第185條之3裡面齁你說不能安全駕駛的保安我們現在前面一二三款我們說的是抽象危險犯的有這要達到一定的一個標準就直接認定了可是問題啊"},{"start":15062.236,"end":15068.078,"text":"你這個刑法第185條之三裡面就沒有規定到是什麼 唾液就是沒有"},{"start":15069.076,"end":15093.321,"text":"所以你特業的一個檢測反而只是一個發動的門檻而已喔就是說我看了你 警察認為說你就在捨行啊 不能安全的駕駛啊檢測起來 剛好用特業檢測起來 最快嘛剛好有這個檢驗值在不管是預值 那個門檻值到底有多高就初步就認定 你這就是獨駕可是問題就有一個麻煩"},{"start":15098.27,"end":15104.103,"text":"你碰到這種狀況你檢察官在辦案的時候你也總不可能說有特異檢測以後"},{"start":15106.462,"end":15120.372,"text":"不用任何論述 直接起訴法官就按照這個直接判刑下去 不可能嘛他只是一個快篩的你只是一個快篩而已你告訴我你還是要用紙幅去做一些最後還是要尿液的一個結果這個兩難裡面齁我看這麼多委員問這麼多齁這個是一個發動啦 發動啦但是社會大眾又會認為說快最好不要讓他有漏網之魚"},{"start":15136.667,"end":15151.295,"text":"碰到這一種 如果到法院去到最後 那個質捕員弄出來說 你要託那個 那個不遵守他根本就是不是一個有沒有證據能力都是個問題啊報告各位報告 事實上我們那個185之3那個第"},{"start":15153.976,"end":15181.247,"text":"第二款第一項第二款跟第四款裡面他事實上如果說沒辦法檢驗的話沒有血液尿液來做一個檢驗的話事實上我們可以用其他的一個事實的一個證據來證明包括其實包括脫衣快車其實應該算一種包括員警的密錄器影像測試觀察紀錄表還有職務報告只要是查獲的時候那個獨家的行為或酒家的那個行為他可以認定他"},{"start":15182.087,"end":15198.014,"text":"可以證明它的不能安全駕駛因為它是具體危險化嘛不能安全駕駛的一個危險情況這樣也是成立第八五之三它是第一項的第二款跟獨駕的就第四款嘛所以其實脫離寬塞其實在一個辦理這些獨駕還是有它的一個作用"},{"start":15203.357,"end":15222.472,"text":"這個還是有它的作用,即使在一個逮捕現行犯跟那個申請羈押還是有它的作用但是我們在原警在以及警察在辦理它不會單純以偷藝快篩的陽性當作它唯一的一個證據因為還要做其他的一些的事實的一個做一些的佐證"},{"start":15223.773,"end":15248.72,"text":"一個佐證包括他像毒價他也有在車上查到的其他包括電子煙具電子煙啦還有其他的一些的毒品啦這樣這樣的一些急症所以我們認為是這部分其實沒有一個尿液的檢驗或血液的檢驗還是可以成立犯罪的所以這個很麻煩啦我要請教衛福部"},{"start":15250.558,"end":15256.36,"text":"我請教衛福部你們認為像台灣現在這樣來看的話強力打擊毒品這個國人的期待也應該強力打擊毒品犯罪以後造成我們現在台灣的盛行率跟國際上做比較我們"},{"start":15272.785,"end":15295.122,"text":"如果以聯合國的標準來看的話我們幾乎被人家講成無獨的國家只是我們感情上我們不接受數據上如此但是強力打擊有一個好處啊既就控制在這裡差不多一趴一點多這個是要持續去防護檢警單位要持續去加強這樣源頭的打擊這是對的但是還有一個問題你們認為這樣子除了把它控制在這個地方"},{"start":15301.872,"end":15306.779,"text":"毒品其他的問題最重要的原因在哪裡?你們不覺得那個再販率的問題嗎?再販率的話,吸毒的會去吃毒的,那再販率會特別高,那為什麼會特別高?"},{"start":15317.096,"end":15332.793,"text":"就是怎麼樣去吸毒的人泥怎麼樣去也就是說我們現在是重罰但是我們現在是懲罰重於治療治療這一端如果說我們沒有去做加強的話"},{"start":15334.895,"end":15349.315,"text":"警察啦 法務部啦 這樣一直在打擊毒品犯罪那個成效還是會打很大很大的折扣跟委員報告 事實上我們那個反毒的一個策略第三"},{"start":15350.56,"end":15368.761,"text":"這真的是反毒的一個策略那事實上是戒毒是一個很重要的一個區塊那事實上法務部的話這部分其實我們對這些的判決確定的或者被查獲的這些我們都是全力去推動這些反起訴的這些的治療"},{"start":15369.782,"end":15389.642,"text":"包括戒嚴治療包括一些社區的一個儲育那這邊我們已經提升到四成了本來那個反毒那個反毒策略第三期他的目標第二期應該是31%但是我們現在都到40%了那我們大力的推動我們希望要用社區的力量民間的力量"},{"start":15390.683,"end":15400.842,"text":"我們去針對這個濕用毒品者他有病人的這個特質因為他那個他去吸毒他那個腦部的基因他的變了改變了"},{"start":15401.658,"end":15426.385,"text":"所以他沒辦法去克制所以我們用一些的藥物或者一些心理輔導諮商或團體治療的方式去做一個處理所以我們毒品防治基金也花了很多的這些去做這樣的一個輔導給那個NGO團體或者是給我們這些政府機構政機關來做全力來協助這些吸毒者能夠脫離這些毒海的深淵"},{"start":15428.005,"end":15443.791,"text":"但是我們剛才今天的一個獨家可惡他是說吸毒者怎麼會去開車那其實這個毒品的盛需其實現在我們經過努力第三期的結果其實我那個業務報也有報告我們106年那時候是"},{"start":15444.651,"end":15467.432,"text":"毒品的新增是一萬四千多人現在到去年是降到八千多人事實上我們毒品的新增人口跟再換率是降低的是持續降低的那現在就是因為那個新興毒品的關係他取代了傳統的毒品再加上電子菸去才造成這樣的一個比較我知道柏定你的意思我知道了我告訴你齁"},{"start":15468.8,"end":15472.363,"text":"我在禮拜五的時候 我禮拜五我特別去問十個我的朋友 我問他們這毒品你覺得要怎麼處理他們都說關於事 毒品關完以後再治療 不用吃了味 都關於就好 關於就好也就是說我們的社會"},{"start":15493.183,"end":15510.295,"text":"我們的社會認定的是 重罰跟關 他們認為這個是有效的可是全世界的統計 各國的統計 除了加強打擊源頭主決以外重刑是一種嚇阻 可是最有效的方法"},{"start":15511.365,"end":15530.02,"text":"反而是吸了毒以後 當然前端是防治嘛因為毒品的再販率太高啦所以他認為還是要去治療可是我們的社會的文化反而認為這一塊是沒有那麼重要的喔你們碰到兩難的地方在這裡啦所以我一直認為說 啊這要怎麼給我工資"},{"start":15532.361,"end":15561.38,"text":"我很怕被人誤解說 你看喔在莊瑞祥中講說我們這個毒品不嚴重嚴重對我們整個社會文化來看的話台灣的毒品還算是嚴重我們當然希望說我們的毒品勝成率不是現在的1啊新加坡是 我們是1.1 1.2新加坡是1 我們希望可以到0.5啊我們可以更低啊社會對毒品的氾濫是零容忍的啊那在這個兩相比較之下我認為啦 我們衛福部這個地方"},{"start":15562.542,"end":15565.61,"text":"教法部這裡也能研究一下實在是對於自獨 對於販獨"},{"start":15570.57,"end":15595.584,"text":"當然是這個沙湖社這個社會一定形成一個共識嘛沒有人會去反對嘛但是我們對於這個再販率這個再販率常常啊這個社會有那麼多毒販吃毒的人喔搞不好差不多再販率都是那一些人這一些人除了運輸除了販賣那個是非常可惡啦那個是對那其他這一類型以外啊"},{"start":15596.304,"end":15615.379,"text":"當然也有人認為說這是一個病人那我們社會就算不把他當成病人但是啊為了讓整個毒品的危害更降低的話除了重罰以外啊我看後端這個治療的部分我們政府還是要加強因應啦好不好好謝謝好謝謝莊委員接下來是林楚英委員林楚英委員林楚英委員不在"},{"start":15626.499,"end":15640.492,"text":"那麼我們今天所有登記發言的委員都已經發言完畢詢答結束那委員質詢時所要求提供的相關資料或以書面答覆者我們就請相關機關盡速的送交個別委員及本會好那麼我們今天的"},{"start":15642.513,"end":15661.644,"text":"還有委員蔡其昌、林楚英、傅坤祺、徐欣盈、陳冠廷都有提書面質詢就列入紀錄刊登公報並請相關機關以書面答覆那本次會議我們就到此結束辛苦了今天部長、次長還有副書長還有我們其他的列席的官員們我們就現在散會到此結束 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}