{"error":false,"id":["17508"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":17508,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17508","日期":"2026-06-10","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"公聽會-2026060522","會議代碼:str":"「電子競技運動發展基本法草案」公聽會","屆":11,"會期":5,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"公聽會","委員會代碼":[22],"委員會代碼:str":["教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會公聽會（事由：「電子競技運動發展基本法草案」公聽會）"},"影片種類":"Full","開始時間":"2026-06-10T08:38:02+08:00","結束時間":"2026-06-10T11:42:00+08:00","影片長度":"03:03:58","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373d345d10eba1810039a82c4ca6dd6713f26dbd1a1f1ae502162658fadde7a92d945ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2026-06-10T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會公聽會（事由：「電子競技運動發展基本法草案」公聽會）","委員名稱":"完整會議","委員發言時間":"08:38:02 - 11:42:00","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":117.88596875,"end":117.93659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":156.37784375,"end":157.47471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":159.01034375,"end":159.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":171.90284375000002,"end":175.17659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":175.91909375,"end":176.03721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":178.58534375000002,"end":178.61909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":209.97284375,"end":210.19221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":273.77721875000003,"end":274.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":276.46034375,"end":276.69659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":277.79346875000005,"end":277.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":301.73909375,"end":302.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":525.7040937500001,"end":526.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":642.81659375,"end":644.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":812.07284375,"end":814.4184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":814.4184687500001,"end":817.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":817.9622187500001,"end":818.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":818.0972187500001,"end":819.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":846.97034375,"end":847.0378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":847.96596875,"end":848.0334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":848.97846875,"end":849.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":849.68721875,"end":849.8390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":849.8559687500001,"end":850.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":850.9697187500001,"end":851.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":930.3159687500001,"end":930.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":930.4172187500001,"end":930.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1041.5897187500002,"end":1042.0284687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1042.9903437500002,"end":1043.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1043.05784375,"end":1044.3909687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1044.8297187500002,"end":1044.9309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1385.6540937500001,"end":1386.5315937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1387.6284687500001,"end":1390.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1390.98659375,"end":1391.7290937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1392.06659375,"end":1392.8259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1395.2897187500002,"end":1413.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1414.5609687500003,"end":1420.0284687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1422.3572187500001,"end":1427.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1427.40284375,"end":1430.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1431.0984687500002,"end":1432.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1433.2584687500002,"end":1439.4009687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1440.6497187500001,"end":1442.9615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1443.2147187500002,"end":1444.4634687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1444.81784375,"end":1446.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1446.91034375,"end":1451.2303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1451.58471875,"end":1456.7147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1457.06909375,"end":1458.9759687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1459.16159375,"end":1461.2034687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1462.9247187500002,"end":1466.8734687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1467.5653437500002,"end":1470.1640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1470.40034375,"end":1474.1634687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1474.7372187500002,"end":1484.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1485.33471875,"end":1485.9422187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1486.71846875,"end":1488.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1488.99659375,"end":1490.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1490.81909375,"end":1491.6290937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1492.2872187500002,"end":1492.9790937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1493.33346875,"end":1494.1434687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1494.5147187500002,"end":1496.0672187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1497.41721875,"end":1499.3072187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1500.23534375,"end":1503.6947187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1504.43721875,"end":1506.9009687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1507.2384687500003,"end":1508.2003437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1508.8415937500001,"end":1511.0859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1511.7272187500002,"end":1514.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1514.73096875,"end":1515.7940937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1516.67159375,"end":1517.7515937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1518.35909375,"end":1526.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1526.52659375,"end":1527.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1528.1465937500002,"end":1534.4578437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1534.7278437500001,"end":1538.9972187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1540.3472187500001,"end":1541.2247187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1541.4103437500003,"end":1542.4734687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1542.54096875,"end":1545.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1546.9959687500002,"end":1553.0034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1554.3028437500002,"end":1555.4672187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1556.5809687500002,"end":1561.4915937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1561.7447187500002,"end":1562.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1563.53346875,"end":1564.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1564.90034375,"end":1567.7690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1568.30909375,"end":1569.9122187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1570.0303437500002,"end":1571.8697187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1572.66284375,"end":1575.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1576.44284375,"end":1577.7759687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1578.26534375,"end":1579.1597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1580.4253437500001,"end":1583.2434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1583.6822187500002,"end":1585.5384687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1586.02784375,"end":1587.5128437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1587.6647187500002,"end":1590.8372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1591.7484687500003,"end":1593.1659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1594.29659375,"end":1597.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1597.7897187500002,"end":1599.0722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1599.6290937500003,"end":1600.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1601.1815937500003,"end":1602.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1602.8522187500002,"end":1604.5397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1605.0628437500002,"end":1605.9403437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1606.5984687500002,"end":1613.7872187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1614.27659375,"end":1615.3228437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1615.82909375,"end":1616.7740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1617.7528437500002,"end":1619.4403437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1620.06471875,"end":1620.7059687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1620.8072187500002,"end":1621.8534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1622.4778437500001,"end":1623.5240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1624.5703437500001,"end":1626.0384687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1626.78096875,"end":1627.8947187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1628.5190937500001,"end":1629.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1630.2403437500002,"end":1632.2484687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1632.7547187500002,"end":1635.8259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1635.9609687500001,"end":1638.2728437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1639.6903437500002,"end":1640.2303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1640.6522187500002,"end":1644.8372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1645.64721875,"end":1651.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1651.6547187500003,"end":1652.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1652.6165937500002,"end":1653.8822187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1654.3040937500002,"end":1655.2828437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1656.2109687500001,"end":1658.0840937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1659.01221875,"end":1660.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1661.1553437500002,"end":1662.4884687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1663.06221875,"end":1664.1759687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1664.5303437500002,"end":1665.6440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1666.5047187500002,"end":1670.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1671.2972187500002,"end":1671.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1672.4784687500003,"end":1673.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1673.5584687500002,"end":1674.2334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1674.90846875,"end":1678.1653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1678.6209687500002,"end":1679.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1679.7009687500001,"end":1680.2072187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1682.5865937500002,"end":1683.2615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1683.9703437500002,"end":1685.7590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1688.9315937500003,"end":1689.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1689.8259687500001,"end":1690.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1690.3153437500002,"end":1691.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1691.3784687500001,"end":1691.8847187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1693.9772187500002,"end":1695.9009687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1696.7953437500003,"end":1699.4447187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1700.8453437500002,"end":1705.1822187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1706.0765937500003,"end":1707.7134687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1707.7640937500003,"end":1708.6753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1712.70846875,"end":1715.0878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1715.52659375,"end":1716.6065937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1716.9778437500001,"end":1718.6990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1719.74534375,"end":1720.1334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1722.9515937500003,"end":1725.4153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1725.8372187500001,"end":1726.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1727.18721875,"end":1727.5922187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1727.9972187500002,"end":1728.4359687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1733.4478437500002,"end":1735.8778437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1736.3672187500001,"end":1737.2109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1737.5315937500002,"end":1738.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1739.2022187500002,"end":1739.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1742.0878437500003,"end":1742.7122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1745.91846875,"end":1746.9647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1747.2684687500002,"end":1748.0953437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1748.44971875,"end":1750.3228437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1750.3903437500003,"end":1751.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1752.4490937500002,"end":1753.4615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1757.2753437500003,"end":1761.8484687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1762.6078437500003,"end":1763.1309687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1766.5059687500002,"end":1768.7334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1769.10471875,"end":1770.2015937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1770.7078437500002,"end":1772.0072187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1774.8084687500002,"end":1775.2809687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1778.3184687500002,"end":1780.6640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1782.9928437500002,"end":1785.3890937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1788.9665937500001,"end":1789.4053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1791.8184687500002,"end":1793.3540937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1797.7247187500002,"end":1801.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1801.3865937500002,"end":1802.1797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1805.6559687500003,"end":1809.3515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1809.7734687500001,"end":1811.7478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1815.08909375,"end":1816.6753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1816.9622187500001,"end":1818.5484687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1822.3453437500002,"end":1824.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1824.23534375,"end":1825.3153437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1828.2853437500003,"end":1830.0572187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1830.7997187500002,"end":1831.9303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1833.8709687500002,"end":1834.5459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1835.5247187500001,"end":1836.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1836.7903437500001,"end":1837.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1838.42721875,"end":1840.0134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1843.50659375,"end":1848.3665937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1848.9065937500002,"end":1850.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1854.5090937500001,"end":1855.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1855.4372187500003,"end":1857.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1858.0865937500002,"end":1859.5715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1862.3222187500003,"end":1865.2078437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1868.26221875,"end":1870.6078437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1874.7928437500002,"end":1876.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1876.4297187500001,"end":1877.2397187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1877.83034375,"end":1879.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1881.0703437500001,"end":1881.5765937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1882.8422187500003,"end":1887.0440937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1888.7147187500002,"end":1893.0347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1893.57471875,"end":1898.8903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1899.2953437500003,"end":1900.8478437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1900.9659687500002,"end":1902.6872187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1903.12596875,"end":1907.5472187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1907.9859687500002,"end":1912.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1913.5715937500001,"end":1920.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1922.0259687500002,"end":1923.7809687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1925.0128437500002,"end":1926.8522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1927.6622187500002,"end":1931.0034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1932.1678437500002,"end":1933.8047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1934.5472187500002,"end":1936.7072187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1937.01096875,"end":1938.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1938.5128437500002,"end":1940.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1940.9090937500002,"end":1941.7528437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1943.7272187500002,"end":1947.6590937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1948.5028437500002,"end":1949.4647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1950.0722187500003,"end":1951.1353437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1951.5403437500001,"end":1952.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":1952.5865937500002,"end":1954.0040937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1963.3697187500002,"end":1967.2847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1967.5040937500003,"end":1976.6165937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1977.3253437500002,"end":1979.7384687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1980.2447187500002,"end":1986.5390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1987.2478437500001,"end":1987.9059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1988.0915937500001,"end":1996.4615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1996.9003437500003,"end":2002.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2002.7222187500001,"end":2004.4434687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2005.1184687500001,"end":2027.6803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2028.28784375,"end":2031.1903437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2032.23659375,"end":2035.2403437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2035.2572187500002,"end":2036.0503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2036.3540937500002,"end":2052.1490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2052.7565937500003,"end":2057.4647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2057.48159375,"end":2058.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2058.94971875,"end":2065.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2066.29034375,"end":2078.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2080.2965937500003,"end":2089.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2089.5947187500005,"end":2090.5397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2091.3328437500004,"end":2096.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2096.91846875,"end":2102.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2102.7403437500006,"end":2123.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2124.0703437500006,"end":2129.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2129.7740937500002,"end":2132.6765937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2133.8747187500003,"end":2135.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2136.25409375,"end":2149.5515937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2149.83846875,"end":2177.2772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2177.6484687500006,"end":2189.2584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2189.47784375,"end":2205.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2206.16721875,"end":2231.9522187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2236.42409375,"end":2236.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2236.44096875,"end":2237.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2238.78659375,"end":2240.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2241.26721875,"end":2243.3259687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2243.6803437500002,"end":2246.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2250.2615937500004,"end":2259.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2263.0359687500004,"end":2266.8497187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2269.14471875,"end":2269.6003437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2275.01721875,"end":2279.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2283.8428437500006,"end":2290.8965937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2291.38596875,"end":2293.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2294.4909687500003,"end":2297.8659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2303.7215937500005,"end":2305.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2312.78346875,"end":2322.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2323.02659375,"end":2332.5778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2332.84784375,"end":2334.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2335.27784375,"end":2343.2597187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2343.29346875,"end":2350.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2350.9715937500005,"end":2352.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2352.43971875,"end":2354.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2354.44784375,"end":2355.9665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2356.23659375,"end":2356.8272187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2357.6034687500005,"end":2358.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2358.88596875,"end":2362.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2362.58159375,"end":2366.8172187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2367.55971875,"end":2369.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2369.14596875,"end":2392.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2392.9903437500006,"end":2403.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2403.67221875,"end":2414.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2414.9784687500005,"end":2419.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2420.19284375,"end":2427.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2428.2928437500004,"end":2432.2753437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2432.5115937500004,"end":2440.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2440.96596875,"end":2459.5622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2459.9840937500003,"end":2463.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2464.25346875,"end":2464.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2465.50221875,"end":2466.0084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2466.04221875,"end":2469.3497187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2469.67034375,"end":2473.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2473.6190937500005,"end":2475.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2475.57659375,"end":2485.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2485.93784375,"end":2487.0515937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2487.20346875,"end":2489.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2490.4434687500006,"end":2491.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2492.5359687500004,"end":2495.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2495.7253437500003,"end":2499.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2500.0790937500005,"end":2504.2303437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2504.73659375,"end":2511.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2511.7565937500003,"end":2515.6715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2516.14409375,"end":2518.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2518.84409375,"end":2527.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2528.07471875,"end":2534.7234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2535.06096875,"end":2551.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2552.12159375,"end":2569.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2569.6884687500005,"end":2575.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2575.62846875,"end":2579.5097187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2579.9147187500002,"end":2583.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2583.52596875,"end":2593.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2594.35971875,"end":2604.3328437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2604.92346875,"end":2607.1678437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2607.57284375,"end":2608.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2608.72034375,"end":2612.7028437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2612.97284375,"end":2622.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2622.7097187500003,"end":2629.0378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2629.5947187500005,"end":2630.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2631.4678437500006,"end":2636.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2637.2559687500006,"end":2638.9940937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2639.21346875,"end":2646.1490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":2646.6384687500004,"end":2652.7303437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2654.92409375,"end":2655.8015937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2655.9197187500004,"end":2657.7928437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2658.61971875,"end":2659.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2663.2772187500004,"end":2665.0153437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2665.28534375,"end":2669.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2670.0272187500004,"end":2671.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2695.9978437500004,"end":2710.1559687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2710.51034375,"end":2751.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2752.3434687500003,"end":2773.0997187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2773.53846875,"end":2789.1815937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2789.40096875,"end":2833.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2833.81596875,"end":2849.8809687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2850.1678437500004,"end":2881.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2881.4372187500003,"end":2915.7947187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2916.0984687500004,"end":2969.6934687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2969.96346875,"end":3013.4503437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3016.96034375,"end":3016.9772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3016.9772187500002,"end":3017.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3018.7322187500004,"end":3020.3015937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3033.3797187500004,"end":3033.8522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3034.25721875,"end":3034.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3035.5565937500005,"end":3044.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3045.59721875,"end":3067.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3067.16346875,"end":3077.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3077.8115937500006,"end":3080.6465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3081.1022187500002,"end":3125.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3126.29346875,"end":3132.0309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3132.4190937500007,"end":3132.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3133.6678437500004,"end":3163.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3163.6209687500004,"end":3178.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3180.15846875,"end":3181.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3181.5928437500006,"end":3182.1328437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3182.4872187500005,"end":3188.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3188.66346875,"end":3191.3634687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3191.7178437500006,"end":3193.7428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3193.9284687500003,"end":3202.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3202.88909375,"end":3214.7859687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3215.0222187500003,"end":3217.7390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3219.71346875,"end":3249.0084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3249.46409375,"end":3266.5584687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3268.1447187500007,"end":3294.1659687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3296.96721875,"end":3339.6609687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3340.35284375,"end":3345.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3345.8878437500007,"end":3377.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3382.2197187500005,"end":3382.8272187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3385.18971875,"end":3388.4803437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3388.8347187500003,"end":3389.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3390.43784375,"end":3391.1297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3395.1122187500005,"end":3395.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3395.9728437500007,"end":3396.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3396.04034375,"end":3396.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3396.64784375,"end":3396.6647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3396.6647187500002,"end":3396.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3401.4403437500005,"end":3402.2165937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3402.5709687500002,"end":3403.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3403.7859687500004,"end":3409.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3409.8947187500007,"end":3410.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3410.94096875,"end":3415.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3416.1384687500004,"end":3426.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3427.0059687500006,"end":3429.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3430.11096875,"end":3491.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3492.66659375,"end":3502.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3502.48784375,"end":3508.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3509.1534687500007,"end":3509.5753437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3510.0309687500003,"end":3512.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3513.32159375,"end":3523.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3523.76721875,"end":3534.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3535.8497187500006,"end":3542.4140937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3543.4940937500005,"end":3568.6715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3568.82346875,"end":3591.7734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3592.33034375,"end":3634.0284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3634.6865937500006,"end":3644.4909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3644.6765937500004,"end":3646.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3646.75221875,"end":3651.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3651.8990937500002,"end":3665.7703437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3666.1247187500003,"end":3698.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3698.33909375,"end":3709.1053437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3710.6072187500004,"end":3713.3409687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3713.6953437500006,"end":3802.7784687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3803.5378437500003,"end":3842.2490937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3842.82284375,"end":3861.3009687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3862.1278437500005,"end":3867.4772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3867.4940937500005,"end":3867.5109687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3867.83159375,"end":3914.8790937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3917.9503437500007,"end":3919.0978437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3920.32971875,"end":3921.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3922.00034375,"end":3923.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3926.4215937500003,"end":3926.7253437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3930.8934687500005,"end":3931.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3931.9903437500006,"end":3935.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3936.2090937500006,"end":3936.7490937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3938.1834687500004,"end":3940.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3942.01409375,"end":3943.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3944.19096875,"end":3947.4140937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3948.5109687500008,"end":3949.3884687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3950.51909375,"end":3952.0040937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3952.3078437500008,"end":3954.8222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3954.9572187500007,"end":3955.2947187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3957.13409375,"end":3960.7453437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3961.5215937500006,"end":3962.3653437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3964.0528437500006,"end":3969.1659687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3973.7559687500006,"end":3973.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3974.6503437500005,"end":3977.4684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3977.92409375,"end":3982.1090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3986.54721875,"end":3991.3397187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3991.9640937500008,"end":4003.8778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4004.09721875,"end":4006.6959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4006.7297187500008,"end":4008.5690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4009.0584687500004,"end":4009.8009687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4009.9022187500004,"end":4013.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4013.80034375,"end":4019.3690937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4019.7740937500002,"end":4020.1622187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4020.3309687500005,"end":4022.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4022.7440937500005,"end":4024.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4024.63409375,"end":4027.1315937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4027.3340937500006,"end":4030.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4031.63721875,"end":4032.3965937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4032.54846875,"end":4034.5059687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4034.75909375,"end":4037.4590937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4037.66159375,"end":4052.7478437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4053.2372187500005,"end":4062.2147187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4062.36659375,"end":4073.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4073.4365937500006,"end":4082.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4083.3759687500005,"end":4086.0084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4086.3122187500003,"end":4087.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4087.8309687500005,"end":4107.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4108.2665937500005,"end":4108.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4108.6209687499995,"end":4122.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4122.52596875,"end":4149.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4150.302218750001,"end":4173.218468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4173.48846875,"end":4176.644093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4177.09971875,"end":4182.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4182.34784375,"end":4195.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4195.965968750001,"end":4210.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4211.30534375,"end":4246.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4246.94534375,"end":4246.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4247.18159375,"end":4256.294093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4256.78346875,"end":4261.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4261.727843750001,"end":4281.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4281.825968749999,"end":4284.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4285.724093750001,"end":4286.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4286.888468749999,"end":4295.325968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4295.68034375,"end":4297.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4297.84034375,"end":4302.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4302.76784375,"end":4325.4647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4325.68409375,"end":4329.362843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4329.734093749999,"end":4337.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4338.323468750001,"end":4338.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4338.89721875,"end":4341.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4341.19221875,"end":4342.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4346.25471875,"end":4347.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4349.005343750001,"end":4349.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4350.25409375,"end":4352.380343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4354.1522187499995,"end":4355.805968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4369.27221875,"end":4369.592843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4370.048468749999,"end":4371.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4371.786593750001,"end":4376.0897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4376.764718750001,"end":4377.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4378.41846875,"end":4379.987843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4380.57846875,"end":4384.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4385.82659375,"end":4389.741593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4390.36596875,"end":4393.4540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4394.145968750001,"end":4395.411593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4396.305968750001,"end":4398.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4398.887843750001,"end":4399.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4400.4403437500005,"end":4404.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4404.878468749999,"end":4405.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4406.83596875,"end":4410.075968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4410.43034375,"end":4411.442843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4411.493468750001,"end":4412.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4413.130343750001,"end":4414.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4415.30721875,"end":4421.2303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4421.382218750001,"end":4423.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4424.31846875,"end":4433.194718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4434.25784375,"end":4436.890343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4437.7509687500005,"end":4439.759093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4440.872843749999,"end":4448.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4449.20909375,"end":4452.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4453.073468750001,"end":4455.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4457.190968749999,"end":4458.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4458.591593749999,"end":4466.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4467.5184687500005,"end":4482.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4483.077218750001,"end":4487.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4487.802218750001,"end":4488.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4489.5740937499995,"end":4492.122218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4493.13471875,"end":4497.454718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4498.4334687499995,"end":4499.665343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4500.930968750001,"end":4501.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4502.87159375,"end":4505.892218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4506.702218750001,"end":4507.259093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4508.06909375,"end":4508.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4510.19534375,"end":4512.321593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4512.878468749999,"end":4521.501593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4521.99096875,"end":4537.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4537.83659375,"end":4541.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4542.00471875,"end":4551.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4552.60221875,"end":4569.173468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4569.274718750001,"end":4573.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4575.19784375,"end":4578.032843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4578.5897187499995,"end":4588.157843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4588.37721875,"end":4596.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4597.202843749999,"end":4599.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4600.763468749999,"end":4605.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4605.977843750001,"end":4609.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4610.517218749999,"end":4619.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4620.169718749999,"end":4623.224093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4623.81471875,"end":4630.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4631.07096875,"end":4633.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4634.44596875,"end":4638.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4639.32284375,"end":4644.604718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4645.22909375,"end":4653.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4654.341593749999,"end":4664.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4665.647843750001,"end":4679.198468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4679.68784375,"end":4696.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4696.343468749999,"end":4701.608468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4702.75596875,"end":4704.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4704.6122187500005,"end":4707.514718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4707.7509687500005,"end":4715.192843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4715.935343749999,"end":4734.936593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4735.47659375,"end":4742.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4743.67784375,"end":4757.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4757.5322187500005,"end":4768.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4769.142218749999,"end":4771.960343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4771.99409375,"end":4778.153468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4778.946593750001,"end":4782.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4782.372218750001,"end":4800.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4800.732218749999,"end":4807.684718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4808.747843749999,"end":4810.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4810.89096875,"end":4831.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4832.575343750001,"end":4833.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4834.46534375,"end":4837.401593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4837.73909375,"end":4839.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4839.24096875,"end":4841.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4842.16034375,"end":4847.189093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4848.0497187500005,"end":4851.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4851.795968750001,"end":4855.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4856.72346875,"end":4874.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4874.239718750001,"end":4877.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4878.829718749999,"end":4887.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4888.161593750001,"end":4892.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4893.24096875,"end":4897.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4897.47659375,"end":4903.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4904.2772187499995,"end":4907.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4907.669093750001,"end":4912.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4912.47846875,"end":4926.079718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4926.40034375,"end":4932.559718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4932.829718749999,"end":4933.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4936.52534375,"end":4937.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4939.731593750001,"end":4941.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4941.30096875,"end":4946.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4948.79346875,"end":4948.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4951.814093749999,"end":4953.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4953.315968750001,"end":4953.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4954.00784375,"end":4959.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4960.42034375,"end":4963.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4963.89659375,"end":4975.776593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4976.097218750001,"end":4976.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4976.2997187500005,"end":4994.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4994.49096875,"end":5004.278468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5004.81846875,"end":5026.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5027.39721875,"end":5034.501593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5034.77159375,"end":5046.786593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5047.19159375,"end":5058.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5058.497843749999,"end":5065.720343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5065.99034375,"end":5068.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5068.774718750001,"end":5078.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5078.91659375,"end":5084.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5084.232218749999,"end":5087.522843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5087.759093750001,"end":5093.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5094.49221875,"end":5106.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5107.485968749999,"end":5108.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5109.325343750001,"end":5112.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5112.81846875,"end":5113.780343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5114.050343750001,"end":5114.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5115.2147187499995,"end":5123.702843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5124.15846875,"end":5134.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5134.89096875,"end":5139.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5139.53159375,"end":5143.395968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5143.69971875,"end":5145.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5145.927218750001,"end":5146.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5146.80471875,"end":5147.429093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5147.88471875,"end":5173.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5173.88909375,"end":5175.5428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5175.86346875,"end":5176.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5176.70721875,"end":5185.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5186.27534375,"end":5187.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5188.04721875,"end":5188.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5188.823468750001,"end":5189.380343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5190.24096875,"end":5196.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5196.80534375,"end":5205.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5205.39471875,"end":5207.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5207.58846875,"end":5208.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5208.58409375,"end":5211.8240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5212.04346875,"end":5231.061593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5232.512843750001,"end":5240.9334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5241.270968750001,"end":5243.380343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5243.49846875,"end":5244.882218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5245.354718750001,"end":5246.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5247.312218749999,"end":5250.366593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5250.56909375,"end":5253.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5254.264718750001,"end":5289.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5289.364718750001,"end":5344.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5345.49096875,"end":5347.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5348.0897187499995,"end":5349.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5349.70971875,"end":5354.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5355.19409375,"end":5358.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5359.17659375,"end":5363.327843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5363.530343750001,"end":5365.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5366.16284375,"end":5368.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5369.26784375,"end":5381.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5381.198468750001,"end":5383.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5386.9697187500005,"end":5387.999093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5391.07034375,"end":5392.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5393.02784375,"end":5393.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5394.327218750001,"end":5395.997843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5397.735968749999,"end":5399.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5400.35159375,"end":5403.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5412.19784375,"end":5421.546593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5421.66471875,"end":5610.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5427.739718750001,"end":5427.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5610.81659375,"end":5661.8465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5662.31909375,"end":5687.294093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5687.935343749999,"end":5706.092843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5706.464093750001,"end":5753.899718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5754.3553437499995,"end":5774.200343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5774.79096875,"end":5802.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5803.073468750001,"end":5804.609093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5806.6678437499995,"end":5807.899718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5809.55346875,"end":5809.958468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5812.776593750001,"end":5814.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5815.29096875,"end":5816.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5816.759093750001,"end":5821.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5821.65284375,"end":5824.774718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5827.69409375,"end":5829.651593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5837.97096875,"end":5846.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5847.1678437499995,"end":5847.741593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5847.842843750001,"end":5873.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5873.999093750001,"end":5876.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5876.59784375,"end":5894.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5896.1053437499995,"end":5937.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5937.5165937500005,"end":5999.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6000.122843749999,"end":6013.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6013.18409375,"end":6105.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6106.1990937499995,"end":6133.215968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6134.194718750001,"end":6139.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6139.780343750001,"end":6252.825968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6252.91034375,"end":6254.2772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6259.10346875,"end":6259.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6259.87971875,"end":6262.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6262.61346875,"end":6266.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6267.557843750001,"end":6268.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6269.4647187499995,"end":6270.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6270.57846875,"end":6276.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6276.72096875,"end":6286.491593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6287.335343750001,"end":6288.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6289.022843750001,"end":6290.760968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6291.94221875,"end":6301.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6302.100968750001,"end":6303.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6303.58596875,"end":6304.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6983.96909375,"end":6984.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6990.34784375,"end":6993.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6993.452843750001,"end":6994.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6995.03909375,"end":6995.477843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7009.9228437500005,"end":7013.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7013.6522187499995,"end":7014.698468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7015.677218750001,"end":7016.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7017.38159375,"end":7019.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7035.99471875,"end":7036.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7037.17596875,"end":7039.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7039.70721875,"end":7058.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7059.6365937499995,"end":7109.232218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7109.9072187500005,"end":7123.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7123.440968750001,"end":7123.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7124.50409375,"end":7180.7147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7182.267218750001,"end":7214.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7215.696593750001,"end":7217.384093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7217.92409375,"end":7246.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7247.100968750001,"end":7273.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7274.708468750001,"end":7283.905343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7285.32284375,"end":7347.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7347.321593750001,"end":7347.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7348.13159375,"end":7349.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7350.089093750001,"end":7379.670968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7381.79721875,"end":7386.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7387.4334687499995,"end":7416.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7417.75784375,"end":7419.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7419.90096875,"end":7422.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7423.309718750001,"end":7433.384093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7434.02534375,"end":7442.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7443.23909375,"end":7443.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7444.33596875,"end":7446.360968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7447.626593750001,"end":7452.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7455.49034375,"end":7460.434718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7461.075968749999,"end":7461.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7471.18409375,"end":7845.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7651.22346875,"end":7651.257218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7848.39096875,"end":7849.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7849.97721875,"end":7851.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7851.66471875,"end":7853.993468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7859.140343750001,"end":7861.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7861.874093750001,"end":7864.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7864.590968750001,"end":7879.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7879.98096875,"end":7888.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7889.36346875,"end":7893.6834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7894.47659375,"end":7897.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7898.88096875,"end":7907.335343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7908.16221875,"end":7908.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7909.51221875,"end":7915.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7917.139718750001,"end":7919.8397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7921.358468750001,"end":7922.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7922.97846875,"end":7923.872843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7924.66596875,"end":7927.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7927.99034375,"end":7930.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7930.538468750001,"end":7933.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7933.98096875,"end":7936.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7937.59221875,"end":7941.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7941.591593749999,"end":7943.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7944.76409375,"end":7946.805968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7947.44721875,"end":7949.607218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7950.24846875,"end":7953.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7954.264718750001,"end":7956.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7957.015343750001,"end":7961.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7962.24659375,"end":7966.3134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7967.1572187500005,"end":7967.714093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7968.67596875,"end":7970.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7971.3084687499995,"end":7977.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7978.530968750001,"end":7985.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7986.61409375,"end":7990.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7991.2040937500005,"end":7991.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7992.452843750001,"end":7993.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7994.35971875,"end":7994.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7995.929093750001,"end":7996.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7997.26221875,"end":8002.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8003.32034375,"end":8004.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8005.767218750001,"end":8006.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8006.374718750001,"end":8028.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8029.307843750001,"end":8035.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8035.97346875,"end":8036.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8036.3447187500005,"end":8036.952218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8037.323468750001,"end":8042.335343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8042.419718750001,"end":8053.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8053.89471875,"end":8054.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8055.53159375,"end":8072.895968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8073.317843750001,"end":8076.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8076.81096875,"end":8079.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8079.62909375,"end":8085.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8086.159718750001,"end":8088.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8089.0115937499995,"end":8094.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8094.7997187500005,"end":8106.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8107.05096875,"end":8109.413468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8109.784718750001,"end":8110.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8110.9490937499995,"end":8113.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8113.919093750001,"end":8114.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8114.897843750001,"end":8114.982218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8115.842843750001,"end":8119.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8119.99409375,"end":8128.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8129.241593750001,"end":8134.590968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8135.18159375,"end":8137.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8137.88159375,"end":8140.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8141.35784375,"end":8153.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8154.267218750001,"end":8156.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8156.35971875,"end":8173.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8174.39909375,"end":8176.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8176.913468750001,"end":8183.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8183.714093750001,"end":8185.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8186.31284375,"end":8188.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8189.046593750001,"end":8190.599093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8190.81846875,"end":8192.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8192.792843750001,"end":8196.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8197.88909375,"end":8200.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8201.230343750001,"end":8202.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8203.10346875,"end":8211.743468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8212.418468750002,"end":8212.992218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8213.32971875,"end":8214.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8215.50659375,"end":8216.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8217.160343750002,"end":8220.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8220.687218750001,"end":8234.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8234.76096875,"end":8236.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8237.190968750001,"end":8247.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8248.29471875,"end":8249.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8250.184718750003,"end":8287.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8291.27534375,"end":8297.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8297.97471875,"end":8309.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8310.023468750001,"end":8314.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8315.187218750001,"end":8316.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8317.65096875,"end":8318.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8319.43971875,"end":8320.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8327.320343750001,"end":8328.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8329.09221875,"end":8347.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8348.363468750002,"end":8358.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8359.21409375,"end":8376.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8377.06784375,"end":8401.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8402.144093750001,"end":8406.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8406.784718750001,"end":8408.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8408.489093750002,"end":8415.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8415.74534375,"end":8418.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8419.407218750002,"end":8421.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8421.48284375,"end":8425.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8426.96721875,"end":8430.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8430.59534375,"end":8433.852218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8434.44284375,"end":8437.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8438.88096875,"end":8439.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8440.34909375,"end":8446.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8446.812218750001,"end":8447.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8450.49096875,"end":8474.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8475.668468750002,"end":8485.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8485.50659375,"end":8486.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8487.24471875,"end":8529.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8530.394093750001,"end":8536.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8537.39721875,"end":8543.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8544.282218750002,"end":8546.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8546.290343750003,"end":8548.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8548.72034375,"end":8551.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8551.605968750002,"end":8557.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8557.90034375,"end":8559.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8559.85784375,"end":8563.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8564.54909375,"end":8568.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8568.210968750001,"end":8573.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8573.695343750001,"end":8578.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8580.175343750001,"end":8581.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8581.727843750003,"end":8582.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8582.63909375,"end":8587.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8587.90409375,"end":8604.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8605.36971875,"end":8627.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8627.813468750002,"end":8628.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8628.94409375,"end":8631.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8632.72409375,"end":8634.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8635.187843750002,"end":8636.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8637.465968750003,"end":8698.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8700.07221875,"end":8703.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8703.379718750002,"end":8729.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8729.637218750002,"end":8733.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8733.180968750003,"end":8733.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8733.34971875,"end":8751.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8755.01721875,"end":8756.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8757.24471875,"end":8757.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8758.965968750003,"end":8760.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8761.26096875,"end":8763.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8764.011593750001,"end":8765.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8765.766593750002,"end":8766.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8766.812843750002,"end":8772.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8772.820343750001,"end":8777.258468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8777.71409375,"end":8779.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8778.28784375,"end":8778.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8778.33846875,"end":8778.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8778.405968750001,"end":8778.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8779.95846875,"end":8786.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8786.62409375,"end":8801.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8802.06471875,"end":8804.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8805.23721875,"end":8806.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8806.80659375,"end":8812.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8813.421593750001,"end":8814.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8815.007843750001,"end":8823.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8824.559093750002,"end":8827.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8827.984718750002,"end":8831.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8832.051593750002,"end":8833.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8838.54846875,"end":8840.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8840.28659375,"end":8841.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8841.99096875,"end":8842.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8842.78409375,"end":8856.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8857.06034375,"end":8908.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8863.270343750002,"end":8863.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8909.035343750002,"end":8918.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8919.51471875,"end":8940.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8940.675968750002,"end":8950.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8951.67846875,"end":8958.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8959.22159375,"end":8980.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8980.73721875,"end":9010.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9011.297843750002,"end":9015.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9016.039718750002,"end":9019.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9020.12346875,"end":9031.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9031.61534375,"end":9051.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9051.359093750001,"end":9079.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9080.519093750001,"end":9108.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9109.274093750002,"end":9115.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9116.243468750003,"end":9143.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9144.289718750002,"end":9160.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9161.28284375,"end":9186.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9186.98346875,"end":9190.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9190.628468750001,"end":9203.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9203.89221875,"end":9228.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9228.78284375,"end":9239.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9240.13971875,"end":9270.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9273.55221875,"end":9279.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9280.015343750001,"end":9290.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9291.11909375,"end":9304.922843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9305.47971875,"end":9312.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9313.07346875,"end":9315.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9316.414718750002,"end":9321.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9322.118468750003,"end":9326.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9326.62409375,"end":9334.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9335.14596875,"end":9341.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9341.49096875,"end":9348.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9349.472843750002,"end":9350.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9350.789093750001,"end":9352.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9353.65784375,"end":9356.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9365.52096875,"end":9367.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9367.20846875,"end":9369.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9370.262843750003,"end":9370.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9370.97159375,"end":9371.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9371.37659375,"end":9373.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9374.97096875,"end":9377.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9379.25721875,"end":9379.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9380.337218750003,"end":9404.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9404.485343750002,"end":9409.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9409.969718750002,"end":9414.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9414.812843750002,"end":9417.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9417.546593750001,"end":9420.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9421.090343750002,"end":9429.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9429.34221875,"end":9430.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9430.624718750001,"end":9431.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9431.72159375,"end":9431.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9432.227843750003,"end":9451.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9451.87034375,"end":9466.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9466.72034375,"end":9467.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9467.46284375,"end":9468.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9468.67784375,"end":9473.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9473.301593750002,"end":9474.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9474.921593750001,"end":9490.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9491.10471875,"end":9515.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9516.012218750002,"end":9517.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9518.23971875,"end":9521.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9521.344718750002,"end":9523.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9524.04471875,"end":9526.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9526.761593750001,"end":9527.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9528.70221875,"end":9529.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9530.204093750002,"end":9530.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9531.047843750002,"end":9541.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9541.898468750001,"end":9542.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9545.374718750001,"end":9547.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9547.61909375,"end":9557.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9558.21659375,"end":9558.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9558.925343750001,"end":9566.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9566.28284375,"end":9571.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9571.61534375,"end":9581.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9581.68971875,"end":9582.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9586.313468750002,"end":9591.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9591.91596875,"end":9598.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9598.952843750001,"end":9599.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9599.62784375,"end":9604.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9604.30221875,"end":9605.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9606.41159375,"end":9614.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9614.59596875,"end":9639.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9640.414718750002,"end":9644.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9644.65034375,"end":9644.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9645.629093750002,"end":9651.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9652.68284375,"end":9652.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9653.340968750003,"end":9657.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9658.386593750001,"end":9665.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9666.23346875,"end":9666.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9667.296593750001,"end":9674.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9674.586593750002,"end":9678.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9679.328468750002,"end":9713.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9714.15846875,"end":9714.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9714.715343750002,"end":9718.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9722.37659375,"end":9723.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9724.300343750001,"end":9724.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9725.565968750001,"end":9726.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9727.152218750001,"end":9729.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9729.649718750003,"end":9733.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9734.070968750002,"end":9739.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9739.555343750002,"end":9741.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9742.086593750002,"end":9745.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9746.00159375,"end":9748.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9749.055968750003,"end":9752.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9753.105968750002,"end":9755.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9755.56971875,"end":9756.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9756.83534375,"end":9757.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9758.067218750002,"end":9761.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9762.25221875,"end":9764.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9765.390968750002,"end":9768.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9769.84596875,"end":9771.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9772.191593750002,"end":9775.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9775.58346875,"end":9780.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9780.98346875,"end":9787.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9787.61534375,"end":9788.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9788.864093750002,"end":9789.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9790.56846875,"end":9793.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9794.88846875,"end":9796.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9797.38596875,"end":9801.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9802.00971875,"end":9803.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9805.01346875,"end":9806.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9807.105968750002,"end":9810.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9810.34596875,"end":9812.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9815.05409375,"end":9815.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9815.77971875,"end":9816.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9816.42096875,"end":9851.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9851.95971875,"end":9892.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9893.70846875,"end":9900.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9900.72846875,"end":9902.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9902.550968750002,"end":9929.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9930.22596875,"end":9933.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9933.58409375,"end":9937.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9937.769093750001,"end":9941.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9942.359093750001,"end":9943.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9943.270343750002,"end":9968.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9968.97096875,"end":9970.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9971.485343750002,"end":9973.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9974.067218750002,"end":9988.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9988.47846875,"end":9996.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9996.88221875,"end":10007.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10007.496593750002,"end":10011.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10011.41159375,"end":10016.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10017.01409375,"end":10018.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10019.24159375,"end":10060.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10060.500968750002,"end":10061.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10062.171593750001,"end":10065.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10066.356593750003,"end":10068.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10068.58409375,"end":10080.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10081.105343750001,"end":10083.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10084.480343750001,"end":10108.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10108.544093750003,"end":10122.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10123.07346875,"end":10126.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10127.089718750001,"end":10128.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10129.266593750002,"end":10131.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10132.33784375,"end":10152.368468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10153.043468750002,"end":10185.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10185.105968750002,"end":10185.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10186.253468750001,"end":10187.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10188.480968750002,"end":10190.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10190.92784375,"end":10191.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10192.024718750003,"end":10193.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10194.167843750001,"end":10197.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10197.82971875,"end":10199.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10199.820968750002,"end":10201.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10201.609718750002,"end":10210.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10210.82346875,"end":10225.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10225.656593750002,"end":10240.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10240.793468750002,"end":10241.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10241.164718750002,"end":10242.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10246.649093750002,"end":10246.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10246.66596875,"end":10247.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10249.382843750001,"end":10256.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10257.17909375,"end":10258.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10268.805968750003,"end":10270.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10270.13909375,"end":10274.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10274.40846875,"end":10303.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10303.83846875,"end":10344.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10344.18659375,"end":10345.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10347.19034375,"end":10347.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10347.207218750002,"end":10347.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10349.367218750001,"end":10351.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10351.67909375,"end":10353.180968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10353.97409375,"end":10355.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10355.62784375,"end":10356.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10357.062218750001,"end":10357.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10358.344718750002,"end":10358.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10359.57659375,"end":10360.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10360.707218750002,"end":10361.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10362.445343750001,"end":10362.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10364.031593750002,"end":10365.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10365.68534375,"end":10366.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10366.74846875,"end":10367.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10368.97596875,"end":10369.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10370.629718750002,"end":10371.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10371.524093750002,"end":10372.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10378.83096875,"end":10380.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10380.41721875,"end":10387.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10388.331593750001,"end":10394.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10394.69346875,"end":10399.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10400.009093750003,"end":10400.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10401.409718750001,"end":10402.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10402.995968750001,"end":10404.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10405.18971875,"end":10406.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10409.070968750002,"end":10413.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10414.285343750002,"end":10416.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10417.96409375,"end":10422.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10423.245968750001,"end":10424.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10425.33846875,"end":10429.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10429.75971875,"end":10431.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10431.54846875,"end":10432.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10432.88159375,"end":10435.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10437.10034375,"end":10441.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10444.356593750003,"end":10450.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10452.23721875,"end":10452.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10453.33409375,"end":10454.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10454.86971875,"end":10456.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10457.33346875,"end":10462.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10462.41284375,"end":10468.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10470.10784375,"end":10477.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10477.97159375,"end":10480.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10481.38034375,"end":10484.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10486.746593750002,"end":10488.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10489.851593750001,"end":10490.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10490.98221875,"end":10492.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10493.42909375,"end":10496.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10497.074093750001,"end":10497.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10498.761593750001,"end":10500.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10501.37721875,"end":10503.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10504.515968750002,"end":10507.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10508.633468750002,"end":10510.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10511.485343750002,"end":10511.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10513.03784375,"end":10513.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10513.78034375,"end":10514.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10514.77596875,"end":10515.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10516.007843750001,"end":10517.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10518.269093750001,"end":10518.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10519.973468750002,"end":10521.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10521.94784375,"end":10524.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10525.339718750001,"end":10526.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10527.027218750001,"end":10527.870968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10529.136593750001,"end":10530.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10532.140343750001,"end":10533.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10534.48596875,"end":10537.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10538.738468750002,"end":10541.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10542.77159375,"end":10543.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10544.003468750001,"end":10544.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10544.83034375,"end":10545.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10547.277218750001,"end":10548.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10549.67346875,"end":10551.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10551.546593750001,"end":10552.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10553.11596875,"end":10554.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10554.68534375,"end":10556.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10556.74409375,"end":10558.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10558.887218750002,"end":10559.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10560.844718750002,"end":10561.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10563.91596875,"end":10564.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10566.227843750003,"end":10567.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10568.590343750002,"end":10574.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10575.62721875,"end":10577.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10578.90096875,"end":10579.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10581.617843750002,"end":10583.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10584.824093750001,"end":10590.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10590.88221875,"end":10596.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10597.868468750003,"end":10604.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10605.42846875,"end":10607.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10608.077843750001,"end":10611.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10613.460968750001,"end":10616.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10616.49846875,"end":10620.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10620.91971875,"end":10621.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10622.77596875,"end":10624.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10625.40846875,"end":10626.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10626.927218750003,"end":10627.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10627.68659375,"end":10628.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10629.79596875,"end":10631.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10632.344093750002,"end":10635.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10636.15784375,"end":10637.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10638.250343750002,"end":10639.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10640.680343750002,"end":10644.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10645.65846875,"end":10647.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10648.071593750003,"end":10651.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10652.52659375,"end":10652.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10654.079093750002,"end":10655.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10656.340343750002,"end":10657.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10658.449718750002,"end":10659.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10660.74471875,"end":10664.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10664.74409375,"end":10665.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10665.925343750001,"end":10668.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10670.734718750002,"end":10671.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10671.747218750003,"end":10672.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10673.28284375,"end":10674.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10675.45971875,"end":10676.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10676.708468750003,"end":10685.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10686.32721875,"end":10687.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10687.99784375,"end":10690.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10690.714718750001,"end":10692.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10692.824093750001,"end":10693.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10695.152843750002,"end":10696.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10698.156593750002,"end":10699.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10699.60784375,"end":10701.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10702.105343750001,"end":10704.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10705.227218750002,"end":10708.382843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10709.04096875,"end":10716.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10718.254718750002,"end":10722.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10722.54096875,"end":10725.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10726.000343750002,"end":10728.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10728.734093750001,"end":10731.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10733.03721875,"end":10733.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10734.42096875,"end":10735.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10735.58534375,"end":10737.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10739.280968750001,"end":10739.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10741.05284375,"end":10743.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10744.15784375,"end":10746.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10747.836593750002,"end":10751.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10751.684093750002,"end":10752.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10754.046593750001,"end":10755.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10757.40471875,"end":10758.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10758.484718750002,"end":10759.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10760.712218750003,"end":10761.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10761.809093750002,"end":10763.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10764.239093750002,"end":10765.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10765.605968750002,"end":10771.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10771.95096875,"end":10774.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10774.769093750001,"end":10775.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10778.29596875,"end":10780.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10781.87346875,"end":10784.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10784.45534375,"end":10787.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10788.690968750001,"end":10789.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10790.969093750002,"end":10792.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10792.96034375,"end":10794.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10795.019093750001,"end":10796.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10797.145343750002,"end":10799.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10799.406593750002,"end":10801.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10802.207843750002,"end":10802.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10803.844718750002,"end":10804.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10805.66721875,"end":10807.472843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10808.55284375,"end":10809.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10809.54846875,"end":10810.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10811.20221875,"end":10814.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10814.98221875,"end":10816.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10818.070343750001,"end":10819.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10820.04471875,"end":10821.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10823.099093750003,"end":10824.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10825.47846875,"end":10830.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10832.009093750003,"end":10844.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10846.16721875,"end":10849.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10849.727843750003,"end":10850.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10851.398468750001,"end":10855.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10855.937843750002,"end":10858.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10859.414093750001,"end":10862.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10862.856593750003,"end":10866.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10866.51846875,"end":10867.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10867.93596875,"end":10869.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10869.690968750001,"end":10878.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10879.731593750003,"end":10880.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10880.929718750001,"end":10881.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10882.54971875,"end":10887.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10887.81471875,"end":10887.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10887.831593750001,"end":10887.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10887.93284375,"end":10891.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10892.438468750002,"end":10893.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10893.56909375,"end":10894.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10895.62784375,"end":10901.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10901.989718750003,"end":10904.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10905.06096875,"end":10908.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10909.06034375,"end":10911.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10911.28784375,"end":10912.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10913.61659375,"end":10915.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10916.586593750002,"end":10917.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10919.57346875,"end":10921.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10921.969718750002,"end":10923.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10924.754093750002,"end":10929.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10929.968468750001,"end":10930.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10931.43659375,"end":10931.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10932.516593750002,"end":10934.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10934.54159375,"end":10935.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10936.27971875,"end":10937.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10938.203468750002,"end":10940.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10946.55659375,"end":10947.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10948.328468750002,"end":10949.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10949.965343750002,"end":10954.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10955.48346875,"end":10964.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10964.899718750003,"end":10969.067843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10969.523468750001,"end":10979.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10980.593468750001,"end":10984.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10985.571593750003,"end":10986.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10986.550343750001,"end":10987.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10989.01409375,"end":10989.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10993.587218750003,"end":10995.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10996.844093750002,"end":10997.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10997.77221875,"end":11002.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11002.395968750003,"end":11002.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11008.555343750002,"end":11012.31846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":27.613,"end":30.375,"text":"蜜桃"},{"start":47.921,"end":48.221,"text":"蜂蜜"},{"start":78.266,"end":78.646,"text":"蜂蜜"},{"start":107.854,"end":112.677,"text":"這體沒有胃補負這體沒有胃補負這體沒有胃補負"},{"start":139.614,"end":140.175,"text":"蜜蜂蜜"},{"start":161.316,"end":161.697,"text":"這間餐廳的餐廳"},{"start":187.176,"end":187.336,"text":"就剩"},{"start":203.715,"end":211.638,"text":"那個別人會出現的那種表現就是文化部隊長會出現的那種表現就是文化部隊長會出現的那種表現就是文化部隊長"},{"start":240.217,"end":240.437,"text":"鸡腿"},{"start":269.126,"end":270.127,"text":"中文字幕 李宗盛"},{"start":290.656,"end":291.777,"text":"浪子浪子"},{"start":319.964,"end":319.984,"text":"鞭筍"},{"start":339.355,"end":339.395,"text":"鲍鱼"},{"start":360.741,"end":363.123,"text":"這間餐廳的餐廳有很多不同的餐廳"},{"start":382.841,"end":399.172,"text":"謝謝觀賞"},{"start":399.332,"end":401.072,"text":"這間餐廳的餐廳是一間餐廳的中間餐廳"},{"start":427.085,"end":427.265,"text":"嗯嗯"},{"start":457.295,"end":457.455,"text":"蜜桃"},{"start":513.252,"end":514.033,"text":"鸡肉鸡肉鸡肉"},{"start":551.088,"end":551.469,"text":"這裏有個大廈"},{"start":574.273,"end":577.115,"text":"這間餐廳有很多不同的餐廳"},{"start":598.527,"end":600.968,"text":"這間餐廳的餐廳主要是為了提供餐廳的餐廳餐廳的餐廳的餐廳"},{"start":623.644,"end":624.725,"text":"早安早安"},{"start":647.678,"end":648.518,"text":"謝謝收看,下次見"},{"start":672.471,"end":677.514,"text":"那我現在來這個特殊的滑軌所以你抓到上一條軌然後你說這個滑軌很好用"},{"start":699.068,"end":699.528,"text":"吃吃吃"},{"start":730.877,"end":731.157,"text":"鲍鱼鱼"},{"start":758.792,"end":759.012,"text":"蕃茄"},{"start":774.746,"end":775.246,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":804.185,"end":804.906,"text":"好 那我幫你衝啊"},{"start":826.847,"end":827.067,"text":"我幫你"},{"start":858.743,"end":858.923,"text":"哦哦哦"},{"start":869.377,"end":869.857,"text":"這裏是開啟的"},{"start":900.138,"end":900.278,"text":"蜂蜜"},{"start":930.065,"end":930.526,"text":"這間餐廳的餐廳"},{"start":960.242,"end":960.522,"text":"嗯嗯"},{"start":995.162,"end":997.383,"text":"等一下 安心 安心 安心"},{"start":1027.072,"end":1027.352,"text":"鞭筍鞭筍"},{"start":1051.994,"end":1052.434,"text":"鸡蛋糕"},{"start":1087.857,"end":1088.298,"text":"蜜桃"},{"start":1094.123,"end":1094.523,"text":"謝謝觀看,下次見"},{"start":1125.392,"end":1125.892,"text":"這間餐廳的餐廳是一間餐廳"},{"start":1164.145,"end":1164.445,"text":"鸡蛋"},{"start":1188.518,"end":1188.658,"text":"蜂蜜"},{"start":1232.341,"end":1232.561,"text":"在這裡拿吧這裡"},{"start":1276.472,"end":1278.254,"text":"这两个都要购买"},{"start":1315.051,"end":1315.431,"text":"鸡蛋糕"},{"start":1343.11,"end":1343.451,"text":"鞭筍鞭筍"},{"start":1385.67,"end":1392.254,"text":"好 現在開會進行電子競技運動發展基本法的草案公聽會"},{"start":1396.16,"end":1409.329,"text":"近年來電子競技運動與全球快速的發展已逐步成為結合運動競技、科技應用、國際交流還有新興運動的項目隨著電子競技正式納入亞運等國際綜合性的運動賽事以後我國際電子競技運動之國際參與的已經趨於常態化"},{"start":1422.421,"end":1439.093,"text":"相關的賽事培訓選手養成及代表隊的主訓等工作亦逐步成為政府政策的關注重要的議題我想電子競技運動涉及多項公共政策的領域包含運動政策"},{"start":1440.731,"end":1466.674,"text":"教育推广、场馆设施、产业发展等诸多面向相关的措施需仰赖中央主管机关整合规划并透过制度的设计引导地方政府相关的单位共同推动然而现行的推动框架以个别的计划为主与全责的分工、资源整合、跨部会的协调机制"},{"start":1467.765,"end":1487.771,"text":"還有制度的程度啊仍有進一步的檢視跟精進的空間隨著我國參與國際電子競技賽事的頻率提升如何建立穩定且具延續性的選拔培訓參賽的機制確保選手權益競爭競技水準與國際能見度"},{"start":1497.472,"end":1515.06,"text":"已成為電子競技運動長期發展不可迴避的重要議題現行的制度是否足以支撐電子競技運動制制度化的發展尚有賴透過各界的意見加以檢視"},{"start":1516.721,"end":1544.595,"text":"本次公聽會就為了希望能夠廣納各界的意見邀集政府機關學者專家產業界代表以及相關的團體就電子競技運動發展基本法草案知法制架構政策定位國際參與人才培育制度化發展等面向進行討論"},{"start":1547.062,"end":1575.028,"text":"作為後續審議法案政策調整相關制度的重要參考今天討論的提綱電子競技運動與我國體育政策青年發展數位產業文化內容國際競技佈局的定位現行的政策資源及法制我們是否足以回應實務的需求"},{"start":1576.722,"end":1590.386,"text":"並如何透過電子運動、競技運動發展基本法的草案,建立主管機關的統籌、跨部會的協調、中央地方協力、民間參與、相關的推動機制。"},{"start":1594.366,"end":1622.663,"text":"面對電子競技兼具競技的運動文化的內容國際的授權賽事的營運產業鏈等相關的協作等特性我國應該要如何培育人才選手就業人員權益的保障教練裁判制度賽事訓練環境"},{"start":1624.645,"end":1644.61,"text":"身心健康照顾职涯的转型产学的合作国际的交流等事项建构符合电子竞技特性还有制度化的支持体系第三我们在电子竞技运动发展基本法的草案"},{"start":1645.894,"end":1665.391,"text":"應如何在促進電子競技健全發展的前提下兼顧參與環境未成年人士靈的一個參與還有家長的跟學校的支持賽事的公平資訊的安全"},{"start":1666.584,"end":1695.378,"text":"以及個人資料保護還有社會溝通以提升社會理解信任形成支持電子經濟長期發展的制度基礎首先要介紹在場的委員我們先介紹一下學者專家"},{"start":1696.857,"end":1716.053,"text":"依簽到的順序來做介紹第一位我們政修科技大學電競科技系謝哲仁系主任謝謝主任全國律師聯合會資訊委員會陳全政委員謝謝"},{"start":1723.038,"end":1739.264,"text":"全國家長團體聯盟彭淑燕輔導理事長謝謝鴻光科技大學國際電競產業中心林子瑤執行秘書謝謝執秘中華民國電子競技運動協會馮元凱"},{"start":1753.043,"end":1780.522,"text":"謝謝竹敏我們藥業科技股份有限公司徐雲浩副總謝謝東武大學法學院暨法律學系陳介宇教授謝謝接著介紹政府機關代表"},{"start":1783.035,"end":1811.486,"text":"我們運動部部長李陽謝謝政務市長黃啟黃教育部技術及職業教育師副市長徐正邦書發部書衛產業署平台經濟組檢任市長王修怡"},{"start":1815.131,"end":1823.655,"text":"文化部綜合規劃師專門委員王瑞文經濟部產業發展署張能凱組長勞動部勞動關係師劉振彥專委謝謝衛生福利部心理健康師鄭淑欣副市長"},{"start":1843.661,"end":1870.314,"text":"國家科學及技術委員會人文及社會科學研究發展處吳念玲科長外交部非政府組織國際事務會宋永福副參事內政部議政司周慧清專務委員法務部檢察官李芝琪"},{"start":1874.964,"end":1886.391,"text":"財政部負稅署所得稅主吳秀琳專務委員謝謝其餘列席的機關代表請參閱名單不再逐一介紹並列入公報記錄"},{"start":1888.926,"end":1911.917,"text":"為了大家能夠順利的表達意見我們做如下的處理每位發言為七分鐘在第六分鐘的時候我們會有鈴聲提醒七分鐘結束會有一個結束的鈴聲專家學者發言順序以先到先後順序為準現場的發言及書面資料立法院會做成記錄刊登公報"},{"start":1913.632,"end":1939.762,"text":"本院委員會如要發言請於上午10點於主席台登記並我們會在會議中穿插安排並且依登記的順序發言上午10時登記以後我們登記的委員安排與學者發言完畢再按登記的順序來發言如提前發言我們再視情況斟酌調整"},{"start":1943.926,"end":1953.131,"text":"現在先請運動部里昂部長就現行的規定執行的狀況相關的問題提出說明時間五分鐘謝謝"},{"start":1963.427,"end":1986.241,"text":"主席各位委員各位女士先生大家好今日里昂應邀列席大院教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會針對電子競技基本法草案公聽會在此進行報告敬請各位委員指正與支持以本部對於這個國國電子競技發展回應說明現況分析"},{"start":1987.322,"end":2004.263,"text":"本部充分体察到产业界目前正承受着三大挑战包含场馆缺乏专属标准与资金不足赛事难以常态化导致好手流失以及游戏IP受制于人等二本部因应做法"},{"start":2005.185,"end":2028.998,"text":"政策營利與多元資金挹注本部已將電競業明確納入運動產業實施貸款信保與利息補貼降低業者營運成本同時我們正嚴定電競產業白皮書作為施政依據下一步將建立國發基金投資運動產業機制引導民間資金共同投入二基層賽事輔導與行銷推廣"},{"start":2032.301,"end":2051.888,"text":"我们持续提供民间办比赛转播与行销宣导补助减轻办比赛的成本并提升曝光度未来将运用115年度的新兴级极限运动辅导计划持续挹注经费让电竞赛事走向常态化"},{"start":2052.868,"end":2078.398,"text":"三健全人才職能與國際競賽備戰對內我們正嚴定運動產業人才職能基準培育轉播行銷等幕後專業人力對外面對今年2026名古屋亞運高達七種遊戲與上屆不同的激烈變動本部已啟動選手的培訓全力爭取國際賽事最佳的佳績"},{"start":2080.796,"end":2101.916,"text":"四,我们研拟专属辅助办法精准解决产业面对的困境面对科技与数位运动的快速更换政策支持必须根据时效与弹性本部目前正研拟数位科技运动项目辅导奖励办法"},{"start":2102.873,"end":2132.473,"text":"希望透过法规命令直接针对场馆改善赛事推广与人才培育给予实质经费补助这也是实务上最能快速解决产业的痛点同时免除法条进合疑虑最有效的政策工具本部期盼透过这套务实的法规命令将资源有效引导至未来的新兴运动领域未来无论是举办赛事升级场馆安全役或是基层人才培育都将藉由此办法获得实质的辅导与补助"},{"start":2133.934,"end":2143.742,"text":"二 電競產業整體規模相當龐大涵蓋硬體軟體賽事人才周邊資源等層面電子競技與傳統運動項目之核心差異在於賽制與規則受限於遊戲軟體開發公司與代理商的絕對的制約影響每次遊戲版本均更新均可能對賽事規則與戰術策略造成巨大變革與衝擊"},{"start":2161.576,"end":2187.79,"text":"在現行國際市場的運作架構下本部將基於運動主管機關的立場優先對於電競選手的培育與權益保障以及賽事推廣設施環境改善與全民參與等提供必要的協助針對未來我國電競產業的發展期望能建立起政府政策引導民間落實專業執行的運作體制本部非常感謝各界對於優化電競環境的關注"},{"start":2189.631,"end":2203.824,"text":"因此本部期盼能將這份推動的量能直接聚焦在現有實務機制的優化與成效的改善相信這將可以最及時最有效的回應到各界對於電競產業的期望"},{"start":2206.223,"end":2231.742,"text":"本部希望能廣納各位先進的實務經驗讓未來整體法制的架構走向能真正契合產業的實際需求政府期盼能與大家一起攜手努力作為台灣電競產業穩健發展的後盾以上報告近期各位委員持續給予本部支持與指教詳細的內容請參閱書面報告並預祝各位委員健康如意謝謝大家"},{"start":2236.462,"end":2254.609,"text":"好 謝謝補充介紹我們現場也非常關心我們電競的委員我們葛路軍葛委員好 以及我們在第一線最了解我們狀況的職業電競戰隊DCG黃千瑜營運長 謝謝"},{"start":2263.1,"end":2278.948,"text":"以及社團法人台灣足球發展協會石明錦理事長謝謝好 其餘提出書面報告機關代表除書面外有無口頭補充"},{"start":2283.922,"end":2305.063,"text":"接官代表說明完畢 相關書面資料請各位參閱並列入公報記錄請接下來請我們學者專家發言首先我要先請謝哲仁系主任發言 謝謝正常的是在這邊喔 對"},{"start":2313.17,"end":2332.985,"text":"主席 還有各位委員 各位先進 大家好我是政修科技大學電競系主任謝神目前我們政修科技大學這次日本名古屋亞運的電競選手總共有四支代表隊在我們學校正在團練中這邊非常感謝"},{"start":2336.008,"end":2355.683,"text":"運發局還有我們電競協會安排選手來我們這邊首先呢各位什麼叫做電子競技電子競技呢就是凡是用電子器材做運動做競技比賽就叫電子競技比如說像前年在那個新加坡辦的VR"},{"start":2357.805,"end":2365.919,"text":"體育賽項他已經也納入奧林匹克電競比賽項目那另外還有所謂的無人機競速也是列為"},{"start":2368.628,"end":2383.593,"text":"電競產業為什麼因為無人機它也是一電子器材然後呢它是做比賽競速那我也知道無人機產業現在也是蠻龐大的所以無人機電競產業它是涉及所謂的運動產業科技產業娛樂產業跟行銷產業還有呢在6月5號黃仁勳離開台灣到韓國去"},{"start":2393.096,"end":2414.048,"text":"第一個建的就是我們飛客另外也給飛客就是一張顯卡就是最新的5090的顯卡這個在代表什麼代表那個飛客是電競之神是很多年輕人嚮往的對象那也是AI硬體廠商跟電競相關的一個佐證資料"},{"start":2415.109,"end":2431.327,"text":"那目前感謝教育部還有運動部這幾年來提供給我教育部的一個傳播人才計畫培訓了很多的直轉導播的一個人才包含那個這五年的全大運全中運全國運動會"},{"start":2432.848,"end":2456.396,"text":"不只電競項目包含舉重還有田徑項目都是政修科大的學生做轉播還有很多的軟硬體公司都來跟我們學校要人才我們學校的系名叫做電競科技系是全國唯一一個大學以電競為名字的取向所以我在教育界已經11年了在這11年過程中"},{"start":2460.337,"end":2486.275,"text":"我碰到了很多高中職的一個學校在106年的時候我們電競納維運動產業條例的時候那時候確實是有一波的熱潮不過最近教育界很多的高中職的電競特色班都收不到學生了所以這個目前我們在教育的現場的就是很多家長都認為電競就是一個電動"},{"start":2490.509,"end":2511.221,"text":"那另外我再提一下就是電競為什麼是運動我曾經帶過同學在七年前全大運的英雄聯盟比賽然後我們的選手跟對方是五五波啦所以在打BOW"},{"start":2512.362,"end":2533.231,"text":"打的過程中從晚上6點打到晚上11點那我看到的學生幾乎就是體力已經盡失了其實打電競他就是一個很耗體力的很耗智力的而且是很重團隊的一個表現所以我認為電競他應該是要特別的去照顧"},{"start":2534.051,"end":2551.024,"text":"那另外根據奇摩新聞在4月4號的兒童節當天的報導小學生未來的職業探索電競選手是小學生最嚮往的一個職業因為他們想站上舞台如今這些電競相關的比賽逐年的一個減少"},{"start":2552.202,"end":2574.625,"text":"那另外台灣雖然在很多的國際賽事全國運還有世界盃還有亞運取得好成績但很多選手就面臨的一個產業第一個制度的一個資源真空面對很多家長跟社會的質疑那另外還有人才流失現在很多打得很好的選手都跑到那個"},{"start":2575.726,"end":2593.172,"text":"其他國家去了所以我們在教育的現場裡面已經找不到一些教育的老師過來先教學那另外我也呼籲產學合作跟直來保證為落實畢業就就業的一個教育目標我應該法案應該"},{"start":2594.772,"end":2615.687,"text":"擴大對各級學校產業合作跟校外實習等一些實質補助跟獎勵以銜接電競從業人員跟選手電競不同其他的一個運動賽項為什麼因為它是跨很多的產業它是一個綜合體在高雄凡是要辦電競比賽"},{"start":2617.568,"end":2645.113,"text":"一些局處像運發局教育局文化局跟青年局大家都在都覺得不曉得電競是納在哪一個局處辦比賽所以有很困擾我還有另外電競在很多的家長還有很多社會它是一個刻板印象為什麼因為很多家長認為電競還是電動所以我們在推教育的現場裡面呢也是碰到很多問題所以呢我希望電競"},{"start":2646.953,"end":2668.404,"text":"希望能夠立一個法然後希望能把它證明導入正軌 以上報告 謝謝謝謝系主任 謝謝您的發言我們一起加油好 我們第二位要邀請的是全國律師聯合會資訊委員會委員陳全正"},{"start":2696.708,"end":2721.326,"text":"主席好然後各位長官先進還有各位委員大家好我是全國律師聯合會資訊委員委員陳元正律師在這邊的話就這個議題我有四點簡短的意見做報告首先第一點的話是關於所謂這個基本法它的特性由於基本法它具有一定的高度包含所謂的像是"},{"start":2721.986,"end":2749.564,"text":"我們現在看到那我國主要的這幾個基本法它都有相當的這個抽象性包含科學技術基本法啦科家基本法啦等等從而呢基本法它其實呢它比較是針對於所謂的這一種政策發展的這個方向並且呢授權相關的這個主管機關藉此呢另外的去立所謂的這個執法和作用法讓整個產業或是說讓這個議題能夠去運作"},{"start":2752.707,"end":2770.584,"text":"從而我們看的就現行的這一些我國的基本法它其實並沒有一個直接針對特定產業去做的這種基本法的設計所以第一點我想要先讓各位了解的是說所謂基本法它在立法結構還有立法技術上面的議題那這個是第一點的這部分"},{"start":2773.627,"end":2788.887,"text":"接著關於這一點我們也可以做一個補充我們從近期通過以及實行的這個基本法也是大家非常關注的這個人工智慧基本法我們可以發現它其實它裡面的這個法條是有"},{"start":2789.568,"end":2805.051,"text":"相當的抽象性的換言之它是一個框架法而不是所謂的作用法在這樣子的情況之下它甚至進一步的就揭示了相關的產業主管機關其實是要在兩年內去訂立對應的這個作用法"},{"start":2805.913,"end":2820.25,"text":"從而在我們今天的這個議案當中那如果是想要期待透過一個基本法的這個設計那就可以直接去處理掉不管是產業的這個發展不管是對於相關從業人員權益的這個保障"},{"start":2823.414,"end":2848.884,"text":"甚或是產業扶植的期待這中間可能會有一定的落差這是限於又於所謂基本法它抽象的一個特性那這個問題要怎麼解決呢我們就在第三點我從宏觀到微觀的角度來報告其實在現有的不管是運動產業發展條例就是我這個已經一定實行多年的這個條例"},{"start":2850.245,"end":2878.534,"text":"那本來就已經有明文的將所謂的電子競技業納入到這個運動產業當中換言之其實這個電競產業在我國不管是政策也好不管是法律結構當中其實都能找到自己所屬的這個定位那在這樣子的這個定位和架構之下其實最快的這個方式應該是先去思考從現有的法規的架構現有的相關的這些規範"},{"start":2879.454,"end":2895.392,"text":"甚或是該講到的運動產業發展條例或是說國民體育法的這個結構之下來找啊對應的這個可以去做授權或是說進一步呢去做往下設計的這個法規或行政規則以避免以避免"},{"start":2895.953,"end":2915.541,"text":"在現行的運動產業發展條例還有國民體育法跟這一個所謂的可能的基本法產生跌床架屋這樣子的一個現象甚至呢可能導致於說有更多的這個單一產業那在進入的時候所造成的這種掛一漏萬的這個現象那甚至呢會造成"},{"start":2916.521,"end":2928.39,"text":"對應的這個從業人員或是說呢相關的這個主管機關那無所適從的這個情況這是第三點那最後的話呢我想要從這個實務面的角度來談一談所謂的這個"},{"start":2931.552,"end":2948.828,"text":"電競的基本法我們可以了解到說確實電競的產業這樣子的運動它是一個比較新的議題沒有錯但是這種新的議題其實它在扶植上面它在管理上面其實它也有很多的階段"},{"start":2950.149,"end":2968.814,"text":"還有對應的這個措施是可以來參考的我舉個例子像所謂的這個虛擬資產監理在我國的這個實務的運作上面其實從一開始的業者的這個自治行業的這個自治再到呢所謂的這種行政登記行政監管最後呢其實在今年那我們的這個"},{"start":2970.094,"end":2996.708,"text":"MESP它的這個專法這樣子的這個草案才出來它中間陸陸續續也經過了這四五年的這個時間那這樣子的一個動態滾動的一個修法其實呢或是說這個法令的這些設置它可以更實質的去掌控啊去了解到實際產業的這個需求那這樣子的話呢我們等於說先看牌然後呢再來做決定它不失為一個更穩妥的一個做法"},{"start":2997.088,"end":3020.035,"text":"特別是在於說我們現在其實在基本的這一個法律的這個規定當中已經可以找到一些對應區授權的這個依據了那這個部分就請各位長官先進去做進一步的這個參考以上是我的著見跟發言 謝謝好 謝謝我們下一位蔡村崇委員"},{"start":3034.352,"end":3043.813,"text":"主席各位先進還有各位委員以及各位關心電子競技的發展的朋友大家好"},{"start":3046.046,"end":3062.337,"text":"首先要謝謝我們樓庭委召委安排這一場的一個公聽會讓選手還有產業界還有專家學者各界的代表以及行政機關都能夠把第一線的經驗跟困難在這裡能夠講清楚"},{"start":3067.961,"end":3081.525,"text":"當然我也是支持電子競技的一個運動的一個推廣也支持台灣建立更健全的一個電競運動的一個制度那最近"},{"start":3082.766,"end":3095.462,"text":"我們看到會打執行長黃仁興到韓國去訪問那麼受到很高度的一個關注尤其他也以韓國的一個電競選手的會面"},{"start":3097.724,"end":3124.864,"text":"在会面然后参续然后更让关心电竞的一个朋友很有感那我们黄仁鑫曾公开提到电竞不只是人青年的一个兴趣也可以是科技发展然后数位人才还有国际竞争国际竞争力跟青年职爱的一个重要的一个起点"},{"start":3126.343,"end":3131.798,"text":"那台灣是科技大國運動部門也已經升格"},{"start":3133.715,"end":3162.832,"text":"也可以看见国家对于运动的一个重视那么运动部呢更应该要见过更多的一个竞赛的场域让我们的选手呢有更多的一个表现的一个舞台所以电子竞技呢这个运动已经不是过去的所谓的小朋友打电动的这样的一个玩具它呢已经是亚洲运动会的一个正式的奖牌项目"},{"start":3164.032,"end":3178.618,"text":"也有許多年輕人投入信任還有團隊的一個合作國際比賽教練裁判賽事的一個管理轉播製作還有數據的一個分析等專業領域所以呢"},{"start":3181.663,"end":3207.538,"text":"電競已經是運動產業也是電子產業等等那傳統的運動它是在球場在跑道上甚至是在游泳池競技那麼現在這個電子競技它是一個數位的一個平台跟賽事系統中的一個競技這個形式雖然是不同但選手的努力還有"},{"start":3208.339,"end":3217.533,"text":"團隊的一個信念比賽的一個壓力以及台灣爭取國際成績的一個精神都是一樣要被尊重的"},{"start":3221.276,"end":3246.347,"text":"我長期關心運動員的一個前意我認為選手不能只有在得牌的時候被看見電子競技的選手也是一樣平常的信念信念的環境還有他的一個心理的知識健康的管理生死的就業以及退役以後的一個子癌的一個轉型我覺得我們都應該讓制度來看見來照顧他們"},{"start":3249.568,"end":3266.019,"text":"所以選手一定要有保障,再次要能夠公平安全,學生的參與要兼顧學習跟健康,政府也要長期的來規劃,不能只單靠單次的活動或是短期的補助。"},{"start":3268.531,"end":3293.9,"text":"因為我們重視這樣的一個議題所以我們也希望能夠透過今天的這樣的一個公聽會聽了大家的這樣的意見能夠討論出比較可行的條文能夠真正有利於台灣電競運動的一個發展也能夠真正的重視電競選手的一個權益跟保障"},{"start":3298.569,"end":3319.608,"text":"最後我要向運動部還有相關的部會及所有的關心電子競技的所有的官員們我們要正面的看待選手應該被制度支持那麼台灣也值得有更完整的一個電子競技的一個運動的法制"},{"start":3321.289,"end":3338.383,"text":"讓我們一起來努力讓台灣的電子競技運動能夠走得更圓、更穩定而且能夠讓選手有被發掘、被支持、被保障一個孩子如果他找到他的一個興趣或者是說能夠讓他"},{"start":3340.745,"end":3361.499,"text":"發揮他的手長那麼他未來的一生完全就會被看見完全能夠有一個未來的一個精彩的人生我們希望我們電競一樣能夠讓全國的不管是官員們或者是關心競技的所有的關心的人士"},{"start":3362.219,"end":3388.192,"text":"還有推動的一個單位都能夠讓我們未來的一個競技運動能夠發展的更能夠讓國際上看到台灣以上是我的報告 謝謝好 謝謝我們下一位全國家長團體聯盟輔導理事長彭淑燕謝謝理事長"},{"start":3403.836,"end":3415.099,"text":"公聽會主席還有在座各位主管機關的長官前輩先進大家好我是全國家長團體聯盟的輔導理事長彭淑燕"},{"start":3416.639,"end":3436.199,"text":"刚刚听了我们的系主任前辈有分享了电竞在校园里面发展的一些历程还有经验这件事情其实真的是很现实的状况其中有提到Faker这个电竞之神"},{"start":3436.799,"end":3456.007,"text":"他以近30歲的年齡還可以拿下這個世界這麼強度高的電競的這個世界冠軍這件事情確實鼓舞了所有的有電競之夢孩子的這個心很雀躍但是我想就是大家要理解"},{"start":3456.447,"end":3481.369,"text":"之所以可以成為神神就是少數的人他確實經過很多的基層的堆疊累加才可以製造出幾個很有光環的神這個我們能理解然後又提到說社會大眾其實普遍的把電競當成電動這件事情來看待所以這就是為什麼今天全家盟要來這裡跟大家報告對這些現象還有"},{"start":3484.291,"end":3507.544,"text":"今天這個草案的一些關注首先我個人自己的孩子其實也是從小也是愛玩我也不知道電動還是電競anyway他就隨著年紀的增長他其實就是有很多不同的變化甚至孩子的同學也有參加電競成為選手的也有孩子去帶電競"},{"start":3510.666,"end":3534.061,"text":"團隊的所以這並不少見但是台灣的青年學子在校園有很特殊的環境就是說他升學的壓力很大他補習文化很盛行然後校園行政作業學習歷程非常多的細心探索其實也很龐雜繁瑣而且台灣學生在數位成癮跟近視率"},{"start":3536.045,"end":3542.153,"text":"這件事情上面一直都是高居國際的前茅在這個前提底下呢"},{"start":3543.627,"end":3568.31,"text":"所以跟任何青少年相關的法案的設立我們希望它要具備有保護孩子的防禦性還有輔導轉型的建設性全加盟在全國22個縣市有近30個縣市的家長團體會員所以我們深負全國家長團體的期許在守護兒少身心健康"},{"start":3569.311,"end":3586.609,"text":"還有這個嚴謹看待教育平衡的立場我們有這樣的使命所以我們要提出幾項我們的清楚的主張今天的草案的立法邏輯看起來是以這個產業發展選手培訓還有經濟效益為導向的經濟法案"},{"start":3592.575,"end":3619.869,"text":"當然有這樣的專長有這樣的性向的孩子確實應該被保護產業也要有很好的發展才能提供孩子有相對好的環境這個我們都能認同但是站在家長團體的立場我們要將這樣的法案希望拉到有教育主體兒少保護還有家庭平衡的安全性質的法案也就是說"},{"start":3620.929,"end":3643.92,"text":"產學可以談合作但是要嚴防類博弈轉彈進入校園電競可以被鼓勵但必須建立學生運動員學業的紅線保障轉學從業人員是無可迴避的責任但不能只是宣誓的句文他必須要有專款專用的經費來落實"},{"start":3646.841,"end":3662.925,"text":"建立電競運動網 健康參與指引讓國人感受到草案的溫暖但全方位成癮的防治跟家長知情的防護網有賴各業務主管機關跨部會的週延來議定"},{"start":3666.286,"end":3687.396,"text":"我們基於這些理由其實就是跟草案的第二條第七條第八條第十條一共這四項我們發表了中整的修正意見其實我們有提供給大會這一份如果大家願意的話請大家可以來參考一下家長的意見我們有很具體的建議"},{"start":3688.696,"end":3707.605,"text":"我在這裡簡短的來報告一下就是說基於剛剛的報告我們希望可以嚴格的定義電競這件事情校園裡面要全面排除類博弈就是有一些抽卡轉彈這些機制的遊戲還有平台"},{"start":3710.66,"end":3724.376,"text":"再來就是我們希望可以有仿效國外的學生運動員的學業底線的機制希望孩子在自己的學業學習上也不要因為這樣而偏廢說真的"},{"start":3727.279,"end":3752.634,"text":"天競選手的黃金年齡大概都只有就是16、18到20出頭歲那接下來他的人生才要開始所以如果他在這之後他沒有第二專長或是他沒有基本的學歷他到底要怎麼面對他後續的人生這件事情請大家好好的思考這件事情所以我們很希望可以有學業底線的限制機制"},{"start":3753.815,"end":3775.272,"text":"然後保障轉嫌從業人員當然這個草案裡面有提到但是我們希望它不要是一個劇文我們希望要能編列正式的經費保留一定的比例專款專用來落實所以還有第十條的建立"},{"start":3776.893,"end":3799.821,"text":"電競運動健康參考指引這裡面呢確實就是要兼顧他的身心健康還有這個大家要知道這麼強的賽事常常都要面臨挫敗種種還有他很早就要離開這個他的職業生涯這件事情確實是一個殘忍的事情所以對他的輔導確實不可以減少"},{"start":3804.623,"end":3818.496,"text":"電競畢竟跟傳統的運動不一樣它的練習過程會伴隨高度的螢幕黏著還有數位成癮的風險尤其許多現行的主流的熱門遊戲其實都充斥很多付費"},{"start":3819.797,"end":3841.006,"text":"付費抽獎虛擬開箱轉彈的這些機制在裡面如果我們今天把它用社團用各種方式引進校園的時候沒有嚴格區分的話會導致校園有商業賭博色彩遊戲名正言順的以電競之名主席抱抱歉再給我30秒"},{"start":3842.887,"end":3860.038,"text":"不好意思以電競的名義進入校園的時候我們擔心這樣擔心會合理化青少年的過度消費還有他的沉迷行為這確實是需要我們注意的這樣團體不反對電競產業的發展但是校園不是商業轉蛋的試驗場"},{"start":3862.199,"end":3881.252,"text":"再者電競選手黃金壽命這麼短選手在20多歲就要退役對他的第二專長的建立還有輔導這一定要有落實的機制總的來說我們著重產業發展同時無論如何不能輕視了校園還是教育孩子的殿堂"},{"start":3881.912,"end":3899.762,"text":"要護電競更要護家庭我們在這裡不是要幫產業井上添花而是為了幫國家的孩子雪中送炭電子競技運動基本法必須要是一部可以保護孩子的專法而不只是幫財團開路的敲門磚四個簡單的訴求"},{"start":3904.525,"end":3922.44,"text":"校園電競要純淨學生學業生活要有紅線選手轉型專款要落實兒少健康跨部會來守護以上 謝謝好 謝謝我們彭淑燕輔導理事長 謝謝"},{"start":3932.414,"end":3939.739,"text":"輔導理事長您的資料我們這邊都有我會再閱讀謝謝補充介紹到場的學者專家我們雙北祥鶴銀髮電競戰隊司凱軍執行長謝謝謝謝您的到來謝謝這也是葛如軍委員特別推薦的"},{"start":3957.165,"end":3979.797,"text":"天火數位股份有限公司林志凡總經理巨星創意文化股份有限公司邱冠宏總經理我們下一位邀請林子瑤紅光科大國際電競產業中心執行秘書 謝謝"},{"start":3987.298,"end":4007.91,"text":"各位委員 各位長官 大家好我這邊是鴻光科大我們現在站在電競教育的第一現場基本上我們很開心其實有這樣的一幅專訪可以再協助我們去做一系列的發展"},{"start":4010.032,"end":4030.383,"text":"可是其實在這個部分我們有一些疑慮還有一些我看到的一些在食物上的一些問題跟大家分享一下第一件事情就是其實電競產業目前來說對我們而言是一個"},{"start":4032.645,"end":4052.176,"text":"我們覺得大部分的經費其實來自於教育部教育部的高教生跟計劃跟整發計劃那在這個部分呢可能接下來運動部這邊在整個專業的經濟的部分我們其實也會需要一些比如說"},{"start":4053.757,"end":4072.687,"text":"相關警備的一些支持比如說賽事的舉辦然後相關的一些所謂的產業的一些合作相關的內容可能都會需要一些協助這個是我們在教育訓童的第一個事情第二件事情就是"},{"start":4074.068,"end":4088.003,"text":"其實實際上目前來說台灣的學校園間的賽事本身並沒有所謂的就是說我們"},{"start":4088.544,"end":4107.617,"text":"一定固定譬如說每年都會辦些什麼東西沒有一個所謂的校園賽事的一個法源或者是一個固定的繼承的一個行為所以這部分就會是一個對我們而言是一個相對來說重要的事情"},{"start":4108.898,"end":4125.683,"text":"那因為其實實際上我們都知道一件事情電競坦白說它分成前端跟後端前端跟後端前端的部分絕大部分都落聚焦於選手身上後端的部分就是賽事舉辦然後行銷相關的議題"},{"start":4128.124,"end":4148.845,"text":"所以這部分相關的整體的人才的培育其實才是我們在教育界目前來說每天碰到的問題所以賽事的基礎賽事的這些舉辦我們也希望說可以有一定程度上的一些安排抱歉我不太會講話"},{"start":4150.464,"end":4168.391,"text":"再來就是第三件事情剛剛家長會的這邊有講這件事情就是說博弈相關的東西不要進入到校園那其實我提出一個更高的一個實務上的問題其實是所謂的電競運動的倫理問題"},{"start":4174.133,"end":4195.139,"text":"其實實際上要知道一件事情參賽的這些選手絕大部分都年輕年輕人其實都會知道嘛就是可能他有一定的成就很容易飄或者是很容易有一些自己的想法那可能他有"},{"start":4196.079,"end":4210.246,"text":"有需要去維持一些自己的名聲聲量的時候他可能會有一些違反就是電競倫理的一些運動倫理的一些行為那這個部分是需要被遏止的再來"},{"start":4211.406,"end":4236.825,"text":"學生因為其實參賽選手都年輕所以其實是需要有一個退役後的學習保障這件事情就很多我相信就是如果是有相關運動的選手或者是體保生其實都知道一件事情就是重回到教育本身重回去念書這件事情對他們來說是一定上的困難對不對好"},{"start":4237.245,"end":4250.003,"text":"所以這個部分我們很需要其實是退役之後的補助與進修方案這個部分其實是比較對我們也很重要的再來配套還有接下來兩點"},{"start":4252.926,"end":4275.595,"text":"那其中一個其實是產業人才的這個部分產業人才的這個部分我們需要一些就是比如說希望有一些補助或者是能夠讓產業比如說老師或者是教練這個部分是需要的然後還有一些所謂的健康指引相對的事情再來實際上"},{"start":4277.275,"end":4300.273,"text":"臺灣的電競絕大部分其實是外來IP的一個所以是聚集地但是實際上我希望因為我自己在遊戲產業做了十幾年然後才到學校來教書我很希望一件事情就是"},{"start":4301.113,"end":4317.698,"text":"給予台灣的IP台灣的電競的一些IP一個保障與發展的空間這個也讓我們的學生畢業之後可以到相關遊戲或者是電競相關產業可以繼續延續繼續延續這一個相關產業或者是他們的知識為後輩為一些後輩來盡一份心力這樣子"},{"start":4329.861,"end":4355.489,"text":"所以這大概是我們在產業實務面上面看到的狀況還有問題那提供給大家作為參考 感謝好 謝謝我們林子堯執行秘書 感謝下一位有請葛禄君委員"},{"start":4370.584,"end":4394.755,"text":"謝謝主席也謝謝我們立法院所有關注電競的同事以及在直播看到今天公聽會關心台灣電競發展的所有朋友大家好作為這次提案的委員我相信今天在場的每一個人都不會有人覺得電競是不重要的我們現在要討論的"},{"start":4396.38,"end":4423.183,"text":"就應該是到底要不要用更多的更高的國家政策的高度跟資源去支持電競領域針對這個問題本席認為非常需要非常重要也一定必要原因非常簡單因為電競所使用的設備顯卡ICT技術和硬體供應鏈都跟台灣高度相關"},{"start":4424.403,"end":4448.266,"text":"如果全世界有一个国家要做电竞基本法我可以很有自信的告诉各位就是中华民国为什么各位啊不用Google也不用AI立刻查一下新闻就知道全世界有八成的电竞的周边还有产品made in Taiwan是台湾代工制造的"},{"start":4449.284,"end":4466.073,"text":"全球五大電競的品牌三個品牌就是台灣的品牌這裡面啊台灣的品牌佔全世界的市佔率電競的周邊產品50%以上也就是一半以上啊"},{"start":4467.568,"end":4492.052,"text":"台湾的土地只占全世界的万分之三我们的人口只有千分之三但我们做出来的电竞周边的产品占全世界八成品牌占全世界五成而我们台湾有做电竞产品的这些品牌啊他们的营收三成是由电竞所贡献的"},{"start":4494.368,"end":4508.266,"text":"這絕對是我們台灣最重要的一個神山之一啊所以我想既然我們可以說沒有台灣就沒有電競但是我們國家"},{"start":4510.233,"end":4536.466,"text":"有重視電競這塊領域嗎我們的產業重視電競我們的股市可能也因為電競的設備發揚全球賺到好處但是我們的國家真的有正眼的來看待我們的電競真的有把資源灌注在裡面帶著產業一起來照顧我們的電競選手嗎還是只有奪牌的時候出來沾沾光臭臭熱鬧"},{"start":4537.918,"end":4549.648,"text":"如果說現行的運產條例國體法已經有相關規範所以不需要再另設新法那過去體育署也執行的不錯為什麼我們還要來設立運動部"},{"start":4552.677,"end":4573.456,"text":"为什么韩国在已经有运动产业振兴法Sports Industry Promotion Act的情况之下还要再设立一个电子竞技促进法这就是要表达国家对电竞的重视韩国才有如今在电竞领域亮眼的成果"},{"start":4575.253,"end":4599.619,"text":"然而電競擁有非常多的面向就如同我們運動部報告裡面第一頁就提到電競產業涵蓋的範疇廣泛涉及眾多的部會跟職場這也是為什麼今天我們最支持電競的召委有這樣的公聽會我們也邀請眾多的部會官員一起來到這裡的原因"},{"start":4600.816,"end":4619.296,"text":"电脑周边我们刚刚提到的产业属于经济部本土游戏开发属于数位发展部哪一个选手不想玩made in Taiwan的游戏呢哪一个选手不想拿台湾的IP的游戏去比赛呢"},{"start":4620.219,"end":4644.149,"text":"那選手的就業則是屬於勞動部在學選手的學業輔導剛剛也提到了你很會運動學也要顧這是相輔相成的這個又是教育部制裁文創替代役的評選又是文化部剛剛有提到要照顧未成年的身心健康這又是衛福部的責任"},{"start":4645.325,"end":4663.951,"text":"这些议题都不是运动部单一能够处理的所以需要一个上位的法规这并不是一个运动部的条例或者办法就能够处理的这也是为什么我们今天需要一个有高度的基本法来跨部会治理的原因"},{"start":4665.731,"end":4678.867,"text":"有的政黨同僚的委員說我們來做個條例就好了為什麼要搞到基本法呢可以啊大家來討論啊我們立基本法有我們的論點你們要做條例你們可以提案啊"},{"start":4680.479,"end":4707.199,"text":"在本席版本的第12条其实也放入了地方的角色这不会是只有中央要跨部会我们还要跨到地方让地方政府可以因地制宜的来推动属于其自身的电竞运动发展的计划形成不同模式来进行推广同时我也要提出电竞不只是年轻人的事啊"},{"start":4707.901,"end":4734.618,"text":"近來引髮電競也正在興起許多長輩開始可以透過電競來交朋友甚至和年輕人迎親一起組隊在高齡化的社會裡面電競也可以是終身學習世代交流大腦身心的大健康促進的一種非常新的也是非常好的做法"},{"start":4735.558,"end":4755.766,"text":"也因此除了職業賽場以外電競也會是社區家庭與世代之間的連結在本席草案的第四條就特別提到保障不同的性別年齡身份以及背景者平等參與電競產業的機會從國際趨勢來看也非常清楚了"},{"start":4760.948,"end":4777.908,"text":"电竞已经逐步进入国际正式的运动体系今年的亚运已经设置11个电竞的项目11个电竞项目大家没有听错11个亚运的电竞项目预计三个月后的9月即将开打"},{"start":4779.031,"end":4804.477,"text":"相關資格賽也早就在五月展開國際奧會也在推動olympicsesports games這些啊都在在的顯示全世界正在用更嚴肅更制度化的方式來看待電競而在我們台灣我剛剛已經多次提到最適合推動電競的地方我們沒有一部專門來照顧電競產業的法案"},{"start":4808.983,"end":4826.256,"text":"這不是很可惜嗎那過去啊106年運動產業發展條例修正的時候就將電子競技業納入運動產業的範疇這是個好的開始讓電競可以適用運動產業政策跟政府資源但是如今啊115年也要進入這個運動產業發展條例修正的第10年了"},{"start":4832.745,"end":4855.584,"text":"結果我們看到的是甚至有民間有網友說我們的電競快要裝上葉克膜了這樣子真的是好的嗎我們真的有盡到產業發展的責任嗎這一次我們就希望能夠透過電競基本法讓它擁有更完整更穩定更清楚的制度框架"},{"start":4856.789,"end":4877.63,"text":"今天我想公聽會最重要的意義就是在於找出最適合台灣電競發展的製度之路因此每一位的聲音都非常的重要也希望大家拜託一定要支持我們的電競基本法讓我們一起為我們的台灣電競建立更好的發展環境"},{"start":4879.105,"end":4896.537,"text":"並且透過結合中央、地方以及各個領域的資源讓台灣在世界電競的版圖上留下身影而不是我們靠電競大賺齊錢我們的政府收了很多的稅收笑呵呵"},{"start":4897.758,"end":4910.665,"text":"結果暗地流淚的是我們的電競產業跟電競選手這個是我們絕對不能接受的也就如同我們過去在記者會當中已經提過電競已經不是躲在房間裡面打電動這麼簡單"},{"start":4912.586,"end":4932.96,"text":"而已經是成為終身學習科技應用產業發展首腦並用協調國際交流的一部分讓我們一起為台灣建立一套兼具高度彈性執行力以及充滿豐沛資源的電競發展制度謝謝好 謝謝"},{"start":4939.795,"end":4959.37,"text":"下一位有請我們中華民國電子競技運動協會的主任秘書馮元凱各位先進主席各位委員大家好我是那個中華民國電子競技運動協會的主任秘書元凱"},{"start":4960.472,"end":4984.539,"text":"那針對這一次的問題呢其實我們協會主要是負責做主訓賽相關的內容那我們在這一之中也碰到了非常多的一些問題那我想說趁這個機會來跟大家分享一下說我們最近碰到的一些在亞運上面食物上面碰到的一些問題那第一個是亞運相關的問題因為我們的亞運基本上剛"},{"start":4989.58,"end":5004.11,"text":"那個部長也有提到說我們的項目是一直在做更換的從2013年的仁川亞市五運然後到現在的名古屋亞運我們的項目幾乎已經是換了非常非常多種那有鑒於說我們的項目有"},{"start":5005.651,"end":5026.108,"text":"持续更换所以我们的一些亚运的选手的成绩它不会被列在说延续在上个上一届的成绩里面因为我们的只要赛事一更换它就是一个新的项目那新的项目在在我们现行的训辅小组里面它被列在是储训选手那储训选手的"},{"start":5027.472,"end":5046.449,"text":"基本的零用金会依照劳动部的基本薪资来做规定来供给那其实这些电竞选手在新的项目只是没有被选入亚运而已他在职业赛甚至是在国际赛事是有非常好的成绩但因为我们的部分的法规的关系所以他没有办法被列在"},{"start":5047.25,"end":5067.839,"text":"培训选手里面那有些选手他被选到了代表队那他为了配合国家队集训的一些事宜他必须要留职停薪然后全心投入训练但他明明平时的成绩非常好但是他却要领基本工资然后才有办法去负担这些家计之类的"},{"start":5068.837,"end":5097.305,"text":"那雖然我們的代表隊已經在六月的時候已經取得亞運正賽的資格但受限於一些審查的延期啊在那個訓輔小組會議啊通過代表隊之後呢我們的選手才能領就是四萬八的那個培訓選手的經費那我們希望說未來呢如果是像這種國際型的賽事有一部分是可以再更方寬一些我們去審視這些新興項目選手的一些條件"},{"start":5097.685,"end":5113.31,"text":"要不然他們在原本的成績就已經打得非常不錯了然後卻是領主訓隊的經費這是我們跟選手討論一個比較難以接受的事情那另外就是因為電競項目跟其他運動有些比較不一樣是說"},{"start":5115.291,"end":5133.846,"text":"每一個運動項目其實它都有一個國際總會或是一些單項協會但電競它的國際單項協會基本上是非常多的那它沒有任何一個單項協會是任何一個國際組織是列在IOC就是國際奧會旗下的單位所以它很少有賽事會被"},{"start":5134.947,"end":5157.478,"text":"会被列在说是一些大型的国际赛事里面那我们的训辅会议里面呢有提到说他要教一些就是你在培训的这段期间然后你要有一些打官方的减核赛的成绩有这些成绩呢然后你才能去过这个减核的培训成果"},{"start":5157.958,"end":5185.714,"text":"但像这次的亚运项目里面有其中两项一项是宝可梦大集结一项是魔法气泡这两项在四五月的审查期间他根本没有任何的官方赛事那国际赛事也不可能会去特别为他去办了这个检核赛所以他没有办法去用他的赛事成绩来做检核那其实这些选手他平常就是在不管是天梯还是在一些约战的训练上面他们都有做非常"},{"start":5186.394,"end":5204.841,"text":"非常努力认真的训练但这个职业选手间的模拟对战或是民间自办的赛事是比较难被训辅小组的审查会议给认可的那因为电竞赛事它有非常多评选的一些标准就例如说这个选手他综合个人的评价"},{"start":5205.461,"end":5230.768,"text":"他打哪個位置或是他的個人的成績如何他都是可以被評論在說他有沒有奪牌的實力那他就跟其他的運動項目他可能看一些國際積分的成績是比較不一樣的我覺得這一點是可以再做討論就是要怎麼樣去放寬這些標準來看就是電競產業特性的一些選手要怎麼樣去做評論不然的話依照現行的法規他是有非常多的限制在"},{"start":5232.574,"end":5251.243,"text":"那還有一點就是也是我們遇到比較嚴重一點的問題就是電競項目它其實比賽的設備有非常多種它除了電腦之外它有家機有手機那手機這一塊呢也是台灣在培訓選手上面就是訓練選手上面有一個比較大的問題就例如說"},{"start":5254.298,"end":5274.969,"text":"台灣的選手在用手機基本上都是用iPhone或是用一些其他的電子設備那我們這次亞運呢我們得到的消息是他比賽的手機是用中國那邊的手機那這邊的手機在台灣的法規裡面是沒辦法進來的所以選手他沒有辦法用到比賽型的機型然後來做培訓"},{"start":5275.469,"end":5302.449,"text":"那这对于选手在参加正赛的时候会有非常大的一个挑战因为他必须要适应不同的机型才有办法去做比赛那这一个部分因为牵涉到可能牵涉到那个NCC的法规之类的那不晓得说这方面有没有办法去做一些沟通跟一些磨合因为中国手机如果毕竟一次要进来十几台给学校做训练的话这个基本上好像是没有办法以现在的法规是没有办法做到"},{"start":5303.149,"end":5322.483,"text":"那以上是我們這邊亞運碰到比較多的問題那還有兩個是我們在協會營運上面比較碰到的一些問題然後也跟各位分享一下那過去在體育署的時代呢我們去參加國際的比賽就是IES跟GF這一類型就是國際競技的賽事我們是可以申請補助的"},{"start":5323.243,"end":5344.315,"text":"但因為現在換到了全民運動署之後我們在參加國際賽這一塊是目前好像還是沒有辦法去申請一些經費的因為全民運動署這邊主要還是推廣國內的賽事為主我們也是有非常多國內的產業發展也是透過全民運動署的經費做申請但是參加國際賽這一塊不曉得有沒有什麼"},{"start":5345.886,"end":5368.12,"text":"可以讓我們去做申請這樣那還有一個就是目前在國際運動交流的部分有些就是一產業的情況我們現在非常難用運動員以外的身份去邀請一些全那個產業界的人士進來來參加一些活動就例如說我們要邀請別的國家的"},{"start":5369.358,"end":5387.587,"text":"的學生老師那些來我們這邊去參加一些電競的一些賽事那些我們如果是牽扯到其他國家地區有些比較敏感的會比較複雜一點那以上是我們這邊的情況也跟各位做報告謝謝好謝謝我們風雲凱主任秘書帶來第一線狀況的一個分享"},{"start":5397.799,"end":5402.889,"text":"再來我要邀請徐雲昊我們藥業科技股份有限公司副總經理謝謝"},{"start":5412.581,"end":5424.989,"text":"主席各位委員以及各位先進與會的先進大家好那我今天是代表藥業科技Summitake出席今天的公聽會那我們藥業科技從1999年創立到今天已經深耕這個電競硬體產業於25年今天已經是第25年"},{"start":5429.392,"end":5451.153,"text":"我們公司的產品線有橫跨電競機殼、散熱器、電源供應器、電競周邊以及模擬賽車座艙等等行銷全球大概100多個國家我們耀越不只是硬體製造商也是台灣電競發展殘疾的支持者從2010年我們就以副品牌TT SPO這個進入電競市場同步我們也成立了所謂的耀越太陽神的職業電競戰隊"},{"start":5453.996,"end":5464.303,"text":"這是從2010年就開始我們也參加台灣電子競技聯盟職業聯賽並且取得當年的甲組聯賽的冠名權2020年我們也置辦了從紅彩六號的電競聯賽在我們自己的三創八樓的旗艦館"},{"start":5471.488,"end":5488.715,"text":"那全程主辦都是從我們自己海選到線下決賽的完整流程所以今年三年來因為一些變化我們轉變到舉辦TSR有所謂的藥業模擬賽車的爭霸聯賽那今年已經進入第三個年頭了所以我們也親眼見證整體的模擬賽車所謂的電競賽事到目前的模擬賽車的電競賽事"},{"start":5495.077,"end":5514.758,"text":"那我們也希望未來針對這個法案有機會再邁入國際社會所以以這個近15年來的實際投入我們對這個本人的草案是具有高度的支持那以下是我們幾個所謂的發展的建言那首先我剛剛有稍微看了一下葛委員以及這個羅委員的一些草案的內容我發現有一個地方是有"},{"start":5515.539,"end":5536.379,"text":"有一個蠻大的差異性就是在各位草案裡面有針對第13條有所謂的租稅以及補助支持是我們產業永續的關鍵那因為剛剛我提到我們這麼多年來的發展所謂的辦的賽事全部是由B公司自己花資源去承辦並沒有任何其他一些大型的補助"},{"start":5537.12,"end":5565.279,"text":"所以這一塊這個條款對我來講我們是很希望可以納入這個法案的考慮當然不只是支援我們產業也是對我們台灣的一些電競賽事是有很大的幫助那我想這個草案跟其他版本最具突破就是剛剛提到有民進政府應該對推動電競發展的機關單位團體提供相對應的補助獎勵以及所謂的租稅等必要支持那對我們這些民間企業長期投入電競賽事而言會有真正看得到跟用得到的制度保障"},{"start":5566.079,"end":5584.143,"text":"再來就是說因為這15年來自費投入賽事營運從職業戰隊到自辦聯賽每一屆我們都需要去舉辦承擔場地設備直播主場裁判等全套的成本那如果這個草案通過並且建立明確的申請審查機制我覺得可以大幅的降低"},{"start":5584.763,"end":5610.259,"text":"民间团体对硬体支持的企业的举办善事的门槛那也有助于我们形成更健全的所谓的产业生态那我们强烈是支持这个条文可以有明确的讨论那也建议后续可以明确纳入赛事硬体设备投入作为补助的那些项目之一因为我们有发现到很多参加赛事的选手他们本身是很优秀但他们不见得能够承担购买这些相对应的硬体设备"},{"start":5611.359,"end":5634.451,"text":"這個是我覺得可以納入討論的項目之一那第二點就是我認為可以建立電競場館硬體設備基本的規格的標準在對應在第六條因為剛剛看了一下有提到一些規範但是對於硬體規格的基本標準可能沒有提到那麼明確所以我覺得在競技公平性高度仰賴硬體設備的一致性之外從整體的電腦設備的散熱效能"},{"start":5637.192,"end":5661.591,"text":"穩定度以及設備可維護性每個環節都可能會影響到選手的表現以及賽事的品質所以目前國內的電競場館設備條件是落差蠻懸殊的那我們建議主管機關研究電競場館硬體設備基本規格的指引對定期對國際主流賽事的標準那這樣子可以對我們台灣硬體供應鏈提供一個穩定明確的市場方向"},{"start":5662.432,"end":5686.172,"text":"那第三點就是我們針對人才培育應該納入電競硬體技術人才這所謂對應第七條那台灣電競人才培育長期聚焦在選手以及教練從場館設備的架設即時硬體的排檔啊散熱電源管理的技術人員都是不可或缺所以我覺得這個第七條的課程規劃可以納入所謂的電競賽事"},{"start":5688.001,"end":5705.801,"text":"硬體技術運營的職能方向那也可以鼓勵所有大專院校跟我們的硬體廠商共同建立產協的課程那尤其是一些模擬的賽事它涉及機電整合跟動態平台的調教等等等高度技術所以更需要人才的培育管道"},{"start":5706.562,"end":5729.819,"text":"那再來第四點就是說我們是很支持台灣的電競硬體可以參與國際的展演這個可以對應到我們法條裡面第11跟第12條的草案那這個草案內容是寫到第11條支持國際賽事與展演參與那第12條是跟新增地方政府的訂定電競發展的計畫那搭配中央的補助機制"},{"start":5730.559,"end":5753.691,"text":"為各縣市發展在地電競生態提供制度基礎那我們建議是不論在中央或是地方的計畫都可以將支持臺灣電競硬體品牌參與國際展演列為政策項目以我們公司每年參與的美國的CES臺灣的Computex上禮拜剛結束以及德國在八月份的所謂的最大的歐洲的電玩展"},{"start":5754.511,"end":5771.647,"text":"Gamescom等國際展覽當作一些平台可以把我們台灣的電競完整生態系的形象整合出集讓我們國際社會可以看到台灣不是只有優秀的選手不是只有一些硬體的產業更可以有效支持整個電競產業運營的世界級的硬體實力"},{"start":5774.89,"end":5803.849,"text":"好那結論就是說我們從我們公司在早期成立太陽神戰隊到舉辦紅彩六號到今年三年舉辦的模擬賽車聯賽那我們用15年的經驗來對我們電競產業的發展做一些貢獻那希望在各位委員在這份草案上的補助獎勵以及租稅支持的明確化以及地方發展制度化都可以是幫助我們台灣電競邁向更成熟產業的重要基石那以上是我的報告謝謝"},{"start":5806.671,"end":5829.144,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝謝謝徐英浩副總經理所提到的部分我想我們都可以再更精進讓這個部分來提升所以今天大家的聲音非常重要下一位有請郭育群委員"},{"start":5837.998,"end":5862.335,"text":"好 謝謝主席那所有的這個與會先進還有各部會的同仁大家早安我想今天針對這個電競基本法那我想從一個比較根本的一個觀念還有問題來切入我們到底是要為電競去建立制度還是要為電競建立一部象徵性的模法我想這兩者其實不太一樣"},{"start":5863.095,"end":5883.696,"text":"那我的立場很清楚就是台灣本來就應該要支持所謂的電競產業的一個發展這是毋庸置疑的那給予更穩定的一個制度跟環境但是這個制度的設計的關鍵我覺得不能聚焦在這個法律的名稱的升格那而是應該要在於所謂的治理的工具"},{"start":5884.437,"end":5894.124,"text":"是不是精準可以被調整同時也具備跨部會的協力的能力協作的能力我想這個部分我先提到第一個問題"},{"start":5896.278,"end":5915.317,"text":"體育的法制應該是要維持一致性而不是破碎化的一個尚未法我想以現行我們體育治理的一個架構是用所謂的國民體育法作為一個母法並以運動產業發展條例來作為政策推動的一個工具"},{"start":5916.078,"end":5936.994,"text":"那在這裡呢其實基本法它有一個設定的一個重大政策的領域喔那大家都知道基本法是尚未達那也就是說包含我舉例像是原住民族或者是我們的身心障礙的保障青年基本法等等它是具有整體政策指引的功能"},{"start":5937.654,"end":5959.247,"text":"但是如果單用所謂的電競要立一個所謂的基本法在現行的體育治理的一個架構當中我應該原則上是要以國民體育法作為魔法是比較合理的那並搭配所謂的這個運動產業發展條例作為政策推動的一個工具"},{"start":5959.927,"end":5977.724,"text":"那這個關鍵的問題就是說我們是不是要把單一的運動項目來做一個所謂的上位法的一個分流的設計那假設如果今天電競設定了所謂的基本法那未來是不是棒球籃球"},{"start":5979.266,"end":5998.876,"text":"也各自要要求自己也要有一套所謂的基本法那一旦如此我想這個我們的運動的這個體育的政策將會從一套的母法多元的運動變成多套母法並行這個其實會造成所謂的法治結構上的一個破碎化"},{"start":6000.445,"end":6027.241,"text":"這個是我們比較擔心的一個問題那再來就是電競制度的設計是不是應該優先要回歸所謂的運動產業發展條例或者是專項發展條例來進行一個調整而不是在所謂的升級到這個母法的一個基本的架構那我想這樣子才能夠維持體育法制的一個一致性那麼也避免這個制度能夠就是要走向所謂的象徵性的這樣子的一個競逐的一個問題"},{"start":6028.241,"end":6047.092,"text":"那第二個問題呢如果說這個定義過度的擴張我想也會造成所謂的治理邊界不清跟跨部會的衝突那麼本來這個草案的第二條對於所謂的這個電競的一個定義它涵蓋了有選手的培育那麼軟體的出版"},{"start":6048.493,"end":6071.988,"text":"那麼賽事的一個轉播還有宣傳的等等這樣子一個完成的一個產業鏈那我想這個部分其實問題不在於所謂的支持範圍要廣但是如果我們把法律定位沒有清楚的區分出來那將會造成很多治理邊界的一個混亂那我想上述我講過包含這個數位的產業"},{"start":6073.749,"end":6089.522,"text":"文化的內容那麼傳播的監理還有勞動保障等等這些其實本來都應該要已經有了所謂的這個主管機關跟法制的一個架構但是如果整個產業鏈全部納到所謂的專法有可能會產生兩個風險"},{"start":6091.263,"end":6105.059,"text":"第一個就是我的主管機關的權責邊界非常的模糊我導致跨部會上的一個協調基本上就是困難度重重然後再來這個法條是不是可以解釋"},{"start":6106.3,"end":6132.844,"text":"成為所謂的這個會產生所謂的這個外溢的一個效果那麼使得政策在實務上的執行其實是會有一些爭議的那我想比較穩健的一個做法是不是我們應該要把所謂的這個電競明定為以數位遊戲軟體為媒介的競技的行為然後區分它競技的本體跟產業支持的一個體系來維持整個法制的一個清晰度"},{"start":6134.246,"end":6153.427,"text":"再來第三個問題喔就是說電競其實高度依賴國際的IP那麼這個在制度的設計上其實我們應該要具有彈性的設計啦那我為什麼要這樣講因為電競跟傳統的運動其實最大的一個不同就是在於這個電競的內容它是由這個國家的競賽的內容"},{"start":6155.029,"end":6178.602,"text":"不是國家的一個制度而是由國際的遊戲公司他所擁有跟他能夠做的調整那麼包含這個遊戲的規則那麼版本的更新賽事的生態等等這是高度依賴所謂的這個IP的持有者那我們當然支持電競的發展但是呢我們沒有辦法去控制這個競技的內容自己的本身"},{"start":6179.182,"end":6206.69,"text":"那么在国际的这个实务上我们也可以观察到各国对于所谓的电竞的一个治理仍然是以所谓的产业辅导跟政策工具为主那而不是透过所谓的高度刚性的一个母法去进行所谓的这个细部的规范那我想如果是在法律当中我们这个过度细致的发展的事项中长期的计划然后全部都要写进这个基本法里面其实这个基本法"},{"start":6207.25,"end":6228.685,"text":"就是上位法的一個觀念那反而會降低整個所有的制度跟彈性沒有辦法因應它快速的這樣子的一個產業的變化那我想我們不反對所謂的電競發展我們也鼓勵電競發展但是我認為這個制度的設計應該回歸到它是可以被治理的"},{"start":6229.165,"end":6253.987,"text":"可以有調整性的而不是只有一個所謂的象徵的意義然後把僅限於所謂的憲法的上位法這樣子去把它定義出來因為就可能會產生我剛剛所說的一些問題話部會他們在協作上的一個沒有辦法這個邊界管理的邊界是模糊的那也有可能產生所謂的法制的破碎化這樣子的一個危機以上是我的意見"},{"start":6261.027,"end":6286.243,"text":"謝謝我們郭委員寶貴的意見我覺得任何的意見我們都一定會要來參考那也希望能夠更好那當然還是要特別拜託我們不分朝野大家一起研擬出新的辦法沒有一個人可以提出完美的一個方案但是需要集眾人的方法來趕緊的把現在的困境來突破"},{"start":6287.383,"end":6304.038,"text":"因為的確是現在的狀況不是很好那我想要先爭取大家的同意因為有一段時間了讓我們在場的與會官員可以上個廁所那我們先休息五分鐘感謝大家 謝謝"},{"start":6320.789,"end":6322.19,"text":"中文字幕志愿者 李宗盛"},{"start":6969.697,"end":6969.977,"text":"好 現在開會"},{"start":7010.01,"end":7018.159,"text":"下一位邀請東吳大學運動法中心陳介宇博士生實習律師"},{"start":7036.341,"end":7057.381,"text":"主席各位委員各位長官大家好我是東吳大學運動法中心的博士生因為我指導教授李志豐教授他今天沒有辦法出席所以我今天幫李老師來代打那以下就花一點時間跟大家分享一下就是關於這個電競基本法草案它在法治上面可能會出現的一些問題"},{"start":7059.69,"end":7087.889,"text":"所以我們目前在國內運動法核心它是以兩部法律為基礎一部是國民體育法然後一部是運動產業發展條例那就是這兩部最核心的法律那他們是法律未接的那其他也有法律未接的像是就是運動彩券發行條例然後或者是訓練中心或科學中心的設置條例那雖然他們是同一個條例可是其他條例他們其實是以就是國民體育法跟運產條例為核心"},{"start":7089.81,"end":7108.706,"text":"那繼續發展出來的那所有的運動項目它都是用國體法然後也是用運動產業發展條例如果我們今天設了一個新的基本法叫做電競發展的基本法那接下來我們國內的運動法架構它就會形成這樣"},{"start":7109.983,"end":7122.771,"text":"就是在這個同樣的基礎上面有國體法然後有運動產業發展條例然後有電競基本法還有其他以他們延伸的其他法律"},{"start":7124.591,"end":7153.759,"text":"主席用心良苦主席上次在臉書上面有說就不能說就是其他的運動沒有所以電競也就不能用就是這個立場其實也沒有也不能說有什麼問題但它會形成的一個結果就是接下來會所有的單項體育團體所有的運動組織都想要伸出一個基本法來那這樣形成到最後的結果就是基本法就不基本了"},{"start":7154.159,"end":7178.969,"text":"那所有的基本法它都會變成一個形同一個命令未接層級的一個法律那再來就是基本法它其實條文的內容相對來說是比較抽象比較上位的如果我們真的要進到產業給予產業有實質的幫助的話那其實是從我們既有的法律框架下制定行政規則或命令它是對於產業會更有幫助"},{"start":7182.392,"end":7208.039,"text":"其實運產條例第四條裡面第一項它有說下面的13款它通通都是運動產業那其中第一款就是職業或業與運動業那電競它可以放在第一款那如果我們過去在設這個運產條例的時候就是擔心那如果大家不認為或電競還沒有辦法發展成職業或業與運動業那我們就直接設了第六款"},{"start":7208.579,"end":7216.571,"text":"所以第六款他理所當然的電競產業他會包含在目前的運產條例下就是我過去在"},{"start":7218.261,"end":7246.296,"text":"職幫球員工會服務那我在球員工會的那一年多的時間我自己非常關心的議題是運動經濟因為目前運動經濟的問題很多那當時我們認為運動經濟有相當多問題我們希望運動部或過去的體育署設立一些執法來規範運動經紀人那我們的想法也不會說我們要設立一個運動經濟基本法因為這樣子基本法就會到處重申"},{"start":7247.176,"end":7273.352,"text":"那我們單從運動領域來看多了一個基本法會導致就是法律秩序不一致以外那我們目前國內以基本法為名的總共有13部法律包括最新的人工智慧基本法還有最早的環境基本法那這些基本法裡面包括青年基本法客家基本法海洋基本法等等的那如果我們要在這13部法律的架構下"},{"start":7274.833,"end":7301.923,"text":"新出了一個電競基本法那這個整體的法律秩序是不是會一致那這個大家也可以再仔細的想一想其實目前現行框架下它已經足夠但是因為我們剛剛上半場有聽到很多其他領域的學者有講到就是其實電競產業它有它困難的地方它困難的地方在於在IOC的架構下它沒有辦法跟其他單項運動組織一樣"},{"start":7303.624,"end":7318.347,"text":"它有一個上位的國際運動總會它非常的零散其實IOC過去也一直想要努力來整合讓電競可以變成奧運的項目但是整合的結果沒有成功但亞運成功了"},{"start":7318.948,"end":7347.543,"text":"那亞運在接下來的亞運裡面會有電競項目存在那電競跟其他運動領域比起來他這麼特殊那我覺得在目前的架構下他能做的就是在國體法在運產條例能適用的我們要跟主管機關說你應該要讓我適用你的租稅優惠你給予運動員的補助你要給那如果你不給的話那你就去定職法我們就去監督那在"},{"start":7348.263,"end":7371.964,"text":"不是就是他如果不能適用像是他有一些IOC目前沒有一個上位的電競的國際運動總會那在這種情況下我們這個部分需要幫助那我們再請運動部來訂執法來協助所以在既有IOC的框架下其實目前的國體法目前的運產條例是可以做到但如果意圖IOC他不是"},{"start":7373.267,"end":7378.183,"text":"目前是亞運項目他不是奧運項目那其他需要協助的地方他其實還是可以塞進我們的運產條例跟國體法裡面"},{"start":7381.837,"end":7403.844,"text":"但我們過去特定產業有沒有特定出一個專法特定出一個特別的條例來制定像是我們的生技醫藥產業它其實也有訂一些特別的發展條例可是像這種情況下它是有它的時間限制在像它就是到民國120年那太空也有它的發展條例但太空會有它的發展法"},{"start":7404.884,"end":7432.884,"text":"是因為它是一個空白立法我們過去沒有任何一部法律可以使用太空那文創產業是可是文創產業它針對的是非常多不同的產業它不是針對單一的產業那在結論上面就是電競需要幫忙而且電競它非常特殊在不管是放在運動還是放在產業它都非常特殊但是如果我們訂了一個新的基本法它可能會讓整個體系法律體系變得比較"},{"start":7434.096,"end":7458.164,"text":"不一致那也可能沒有辦法實質的給予需要幫助的電競選手和整個產業環境幫助那不如就是敦促運動部來多設立一些行政命令或下位的規範那以上是我的分享謝謝大家好謝謝我們有請黃千宇職業電競戰隊DCG營運長有請發言"},{"start":7472.289,"end":7500.055,"text":"各位先进主席委员大家好我是职业电竞战队DCG的营运长黄千宇今天非常高兴有这个机会能在这边向大家分享一些我在第一线从业的一些观点首先DCG我们共有五支电竞战队当中有三支是台湾第一还有一支是宝可梦是中华台北的亚运代表队所以我们算是台湾规模第一成绩的第一的电竞战队"},{"start":7500.535,"end":7526.798,"text":"那在這一路中呢我除了電競戰隊的經驗以外我在過去十年其實有六年是電競賽事主辦方的角色所以我有更多的第一線不管是賽事主辦然後轉播直播以及人才培育等等的議題都想跟大家來討論那第一是想要討論到電競其實是涉及娛樂運動產業轉播人才泛娛樂等等非常跨產業也高度國際化的一個產業"},{"start":7527.879,"end":7548.075,"text":"那他其實非常的消耗腦力策略能力以及團隊合作那除了剛剛有委員跟專家都有提到的FAKER嘛最近很紅的議題其實韓國的海軍已經跟T1也就是FAKER所屬的隊伍有簽署合作協議他們認為電競是可以作為軍事還有軍事策略上的一個參考"},{"start":7549.075,"end":7572.578,"text":"是可以做合作那第二個議題呢我想讓大家知道其實台灣有非常好的基礎建設這也是為什麼過去包含Garena、暴雪還有現代的Rio Games這些國際大廠都在台灣設立電競館那他們設立電競館主要因為台灣的交通方便基礎資源建設完整還有網路還有電力等等的設備都非常完整"},{"start":7573.078,"end":7594.078,"text":"那其实台湾有非常好的底子可以去打造电子经济因为2025这个电竞馆的成立它并不是说Rodgames就直接选定在台湾其实它当时是进行一个赛区的合并台港澳赛区与日本、越南、澳洲四个赛区进行合并那大家都在做这个"},{"start":7594.679,"end":7615.863,"text":"其實它當時是一個標案那是由我的團隊經過二十幾個投標候選人我們最終把場館留在了台灣因為原本其實是由越南還有其他國家去競爭的那只有一個場館可以在亞太也就是說我們成功的把場館留在台灣讓台灣成為亞太的電競中心了"},{"start":7616.383,"end":7630.676,"text":"那這也導致了一些人才輸出跟人才引進的問題我想要討論到的第二點就是人才輸出大家都是講人才流失但其實並不是人才流失我覺得要在意的是有沒有人可以讓"},{"start":7631.417,"end":7652.562,"text":"這些人才外流走出去之後願不願意走回來因為我自己本身其實從業十年的電競當中有三年都是不在台灣的我曾經在北美的電競戰隊任職而且我也是唯一一位女性的電競戰隊教練登錄在職業的賽場名單上那我也有在上海的電競主辦的經驗"},{"start":7654.102,"end":7672.72,"text":"那其實我是願意回來台灣然後把在國外學到的一些真的電競產業的一些比較執行面的實務經驗帶回來所以其實我們不應該去擔心人才外流而是我們要想的是我們要怎麼讓人才人一定是它是一個開放的市場嘛"},{"start":7673.28,"end":7693.545,"text":"有更大更好的舞台 選手或是後勤一定會想去追求但要用什麼方式讓他們去國外學習後願意把東西帶回來台灣來這邊經營才是最重要的那再來我想提到的是我個人的經驗關於說簽證的這個部分因為我有提到說我前夢魘比較多是主辦的角色嘛"},{"start":7693.945,"end":7711.693,"text":"那我會需要例如說邀請一些隊伍或邀請一些知名學者來台灣進行演講也包含歐洲的從業人員可能我們在台灣辦比賽的時候需要邀請那我自己的經驗我申請美國的簽證的時候我拿的是運動員簽證是P類型的我用了一個月的時間就取得了"},{"start":7714.614,"end":7730.731,"text":"那我們的選手我DCG的選手有一名是香港選手我幫他申請來台參加賽事前陣子總共花了五個月也溝通了各種不同的部會因為有移民署也有勞動部有各種不同的關卡要去過"},{"start":7731.792,"end":7750.919,"text":"那為什麼想要提到簽證呢因為在剛剛提到的賽區和平之後日本跟越南因為我們和平到台灣來打比賽嘛所以包含日本的藍營他們是整支隊伍移到台灣來設立基地的總共包含越南跟日本有五支隊伍而我一直不斷的收到有隊伍像我"},{"start":7751.739,"end":7774.435,"text":"说他们在签证上遇到很大的难处甚至越南队伍当初他们是每14天必须来台湾比赛14天就要回越南一次这对我来说是一件非常不可思议的事情所以我对于这个电竞基本法是乐见其成的因为有许多基础的建设我们如果没有调整好是没有办法迎来更大的电竞产业的进步的"},{"start":7775.255,"end":7791.97,"text":"像我們現在有一個場館在大同區嘛剛有跟各位提到2025年我們賽區合併為什麼有這個場館呢其實Live Games他是有意將國際級的賽事希望有機會可以引進來台灣的因為要做"},{"start":7792.971,"end":7821.039,"text":"要做一个国际级的赛事其实它的场馆通常是3万到5万人而它的赛事期间通常是一整个月也就是英雄革谋的世界赛会打一整个月它需要有一个基础的大概百人的场馆去经营然后去完成前段的可能三周的赛事最后的大比赛才能像在以往在北京的鸟巢或是在韩国的天空高池巨蛋这样5万人的场馆去打比赛"},{"start":7821.519,"end":7843.84,"text":"那台灣呢我們有大巨蛋那所以需要配套的是一個電競場館這也是為什麼我們在大同區建立了Ryder Games的場館那後續我來到DCG之後我其實希望呢看到的是選手能夠有更好更佳的舞台去發揮啦所以我對於電競基本法真的是樂見其成謝謝各位"},{"start":7848.644,"end":7851.605,"text":"主席好在座的各位大家好我先問一個本質性的問題"},{"start":7864.69,"end":7891.398,"text":"我本身我除了踢足球我也下象棋象棋是不是一種運動是因為它也是亞運的項目它是一個我們所謂的智能的運動用到腦力的或者你坐在那邊坐很久會很累的其實它也都被列入運動的範圍裡面現場有很多的跟電競產業相關的教授還有這些電競隊的一些代表甚至有選手有沒有人跟我意見不一樣認為電競選手不是運動選手的"},{"start":7894.517,"end":7921.709,"text":"大家都認同嘛電競選手是運動選手對不對如果你要在體育跟運動的所有目前有的現有的法令之外要再訂另一個東西來管理電子運動那就表示你不承認他是運動選手你是另外一個獨立於現在目前所有的運動之外的東西這是不是前提這是本質喔這是本質那剛才"},{"start":7923.018,"end":7943.583,"text":"各位有講到因為電競這個產業我們在台灣我們有很多做那個鍵盤的做滑鼠的做那個各種音效的還有那個會震動的那些什麼腰桿什麼那個我都有我也整天都在打電動這些產業很重要我們台灣發展很重要可是大家知道嗎全世界最多人玩的運動是什麼"},{"start":7944.844,"end":7966.251,"text":"足球嘛有30億人還有一個不知道的是講產業全世界最大的足球鞋的生產國是台灣佔全世界的23%我們是全世界做足球鞋最多的國家那我們是不是應該來一個足球運動發展基本法"},{"start":7968.735,"end":7994.886,"text":"如果按照這樣子來講的話好那我們為什麼會覺得電子競技運動這件事情來討論是很重要的因為它面臨很多的問題場館的問題選手選拔的問題青少年成長培育教養問題選手的選拔問題對不對請問足球羽球籃球棒球排球有沒有這些問題哪一項沒有我就請問哪一項沒有全部都有"},{"start":7995.97,"end":8004.383,"text":"全部都有那理論上所有如果剛才我們講的前提全部成立的話所有的運動都應該有一個專法都應該有一個基本法"},{"start":8005.811,"end":8027.824,"text":"好 那我們知道電子競技因為它有一個特殊性它跟其他的東西不一樣就像足球的選拔方式跟羽毛球一定是不一樣團體運動跟個人運動一定是不一樣競技運動 電子競技跟那個田徑選手在那邊跳高跳遠一定也是不一樣的東西所以它有它發展的困難例如我們剛才提到的電競的項目到底是什麼"},{"start":8029.383,"end":8054.489,"text":"有些東西你玩一玩 你一開始覺得它不是電競項目像我小時候也是打快打旋風嘛 對不對整天在Holy Weekend後來它變經濟項目那個我好朋友向玉玲人家還拿很多獎金賺的比我還多對不對可是我們小時候就是就打電動而已啊結果他打電動賺的錢比我還多有些項目現在是電競項目過一陣子它可能不是有些現在不是將來可能會是所以它是一個"},{"start":8055.569,"end":8075.616,"text":"很短期的可能是浮動性的目前全世界沒有一套規則在制定的足球有足球的規則籃球有籃球的規則我們是可以很明確的知道哪一項東西是屬於現在的運動項目或者它的競技內容它比賽的方式是什麼可是電競就面臨著這個困難那我們要怎麼解決這個困難才是重點"},{"start":8076.897,"end":8093.652,"text":"所以為了電子競技運動的發展我們去提出很多的方法這件事情是對的喔我要講這件事情是對的我們是一定要鼓勵的可是我們現在就看全世界各個國家齁其實不是各個國家而已是本來每一個國家它就有不同的政策階層"},{"start":8094.873,"end":8114.466,"text":"最簡單的我們就政策宣示我們要來發展那個建築運動可能部長在這裡他覺得他很喜歡電競他就在下面的政策就推很多電競換了一個部長他不喜歡他可能就不大推這是最基層的就是一個政策宣示第二個是什麼在法律裡面設專章我們剛才看到"},{"start":8116.282,"end":8134.068,"text":"這個運動發展條例然後或者是我們的國民體育法裡面他除了宣示說哪些東西是項目之外我們是不是有一個專章例如對於電子競技我們要怎麼樣去扶植他的產業我們要怎麼樣去推廣他我們定一個專章在裡面第三個全世界目前只有一個國家在做的是韓國"},{"start":8135.728,"end":8153.139,"text":"韓國訂了什麼?韓國是訂了兩個專法可是它也不是基本法大家要知道什麼叫基本法基本法高於運動部高於經濟部高於什麼部它是個基本法它是國家要遵循的一個政策方向所有的部會都要按照這個基本法的概念去執行"},{"start":8154.295,"end":8183.012,"text":"目前全世界也沒有人這樣子做的啦韓國已經是做最高的他做了兩個專法他要推廣電子競技運動因為韓國本身他就是剛才我們有提到的他本身的競技產業跟選手產業選手的人數是最多的所以他有專法可是他也不是大範圍的去管道所有整個國家的政策所以我們回到這個本質齁一個基本法它會高於運動部因為今天練習的是運動部嘛如果是一部基本法"},{"start":8183.912,"end":8211.181,"text":"這不是運動部管得了的事情我必須說這不是運動部管得了的事情太大了 太大了那裡面會涉及什麼其實還有一個方法是什麼我們在不同的領域裡面我們去做法規的規定或者是做真實的宣示例如選手的監管訓練那這當然是運動部的事情嘛那對於這個比賽的公平性它這個裡面有沒有什麼作弊這些東西"},{"start":8212.613,"end":8215.587,"text":"誰去管?這是數位部的事情產業呢?"},{"start":8217.299,"end":8246.038,"text":"這是經濟部啊我要不要發展這個產業好如果我們這個問題很複雜是因為它還涉及很高科技的產業譬如說我這個東西伺服器要怎麼做這個東西當然是跟運動經濟有關係可是這個不是運動部管得了的事情啊這一定是經濟部要管的東西那如果我們在不同的部會裡面我們能夠去做裡面的不同的政策的這個宣導或者是在裡面訂定某一些特別的條例或者是甚至就像我剛才講的你學韓國訂定一個"},{"start":8248.34,"end":8275.876,"text":"特别条例出来要求各部会都去做这件事情因为它会很明确因为它如果是一个条例它是一个执法它是一个专法它会很明显它会很明确地告诉你说我可以做什么要不然的话你如果是归运动部管它就会排挤其他的运动那你如果只定一个基本法它的宣示效果很强而且它管的部会非常的多非常的大但是你又没有一个明确性的指引的时候实际上它是只能做到宣示没有实际上的帮助"},{"start":8276.756,"end":8285.968,"text":"所以我提到的是我們一定要發展電子競技運動可是我們要用什麼樣的方法什麼樣的層級去做這個是我們大家可以來溝通可以來討論的謝謝"},{"start":8291.685,"end":8320.069,"text":"好 謝謝石明錦理事長非常認同喔那的確也不想要造成運動部的困擾希望說能夠提出一個高於運動部的一個基本法讓運動部可以跨部會來處理這件事情因為的確這件事情就跟理事長所說的一樣他橫跨了蠻多部會的一個協助才能夠把它完成謝謝您的意見 謝謝我們下一位吳佩奕委員"},{"start":8327.969,"end":8344.977,"text":"謝謝主席剛剛其實聽了很多來自民間然後食物界的專家大家的發言那今天部長也在現場所以我其實真的必須要說我覺得我們運動部代表這個政府部門主管運動的單位我們真的是讓選手等太久也讓運動這個電競產業等太久"},{"start":8348.419,"end":8373.767,"text":"那大家反映的這些意見呢我們也要去看說我們現在到底缺少的是一個法源基礎還是缺少的是我們政府單位的作為電競跟許多的信心運動一樣都是有民間先努力民間先走然後我們在國際上已經取得成績了政府才去跟上然後我們才去賦予法律的地位2017年的時候立法院我們修法通過了運產條例當時我們讓電競正式來入法"},{"start":8377.308,"end":8406.246,"text":"隔一年2018年在高雄举办了世界电竞级标赛这个是世界成绩最高的国际电竞大赛当时是小英总统亲自出席然后代表台湾欢迎来自48国的选手这应该是台湾史上的第一次那2022年在杭州亚运和电竞首次成为正式的项目然后我们台湾夺得的是两面银牌两面铜牌成绩非常好但是呢从2017年我们取得法源基础到现在"},{"start":8407.206,"end":8422.451,"text":"10年的時間我們在今天運動部的報告裡面我們才看到說第一個你們說要著手擬定電子競技產業白皮書第二個你們說要去擬定數位科技運動項目輔導獎勵及補助辦法"},{"start":8427.011,"end":8447.438,"text":"整個政策的 電競政策的白皮書很重要輔導獎勵辦法更加重要這個辦法才有作為可是部長真的要說我們怎麼會等這麼久呢而且這兩個白皮書跟你的獎勵辦法都是你們還在草擬當中我們到今天坐在這裡我們沒有看到"},{"start":8450.583,"end":8471.618,"text":"所以我要講的是今天我們如果把電競分成兩個層面來談一個是運動一個是產業的話第一個把電競當成一個單項運動這十年來我們還是有一些努力的成果的進展第一個是剛剛也有來自校園的這個意見第一個人才培育我們走進校園了第二個是我們教練裁判制度有建立第三個在兩屆的參加亞運當中我們有一個選訓制度"},{"start":8475.731,"end":8497.56,"text":"但是電競它同時在國際上還是一個很成熟的這個職業運動所以在職業運動的面向上面我認為目前的發展是我們政府還要再多做一點當他們的後盾因為很多人在認為說這個產業的發展我們可以再速度可以再加速那我電競其實不是一個我熟悉的活動"},{"start":8498.32,"end":8526.591,"text":"但是這段時間我跟我的團隊我們花了很多時間在爬文就是說我看到了一些討論那不知道是不是正確也許等會專家們也可以再來指正第一個是說我們台灣的市場規模相對比較沒有那麼大投入的資金相對其他國家也沒有那麼大那我們選手的薪資他有一個上限上限跟其他國家比起來我們算是不高的甚至是低的那國際上他就有更大的市場更多的投資所以我們有很多優秀的選手"},{"start":8527.591,"end":8529.275,"text":"它會被高薪挖角"},{"start":8530.532,"end":8555.891,"text":"所以我們究竟有哪些選手他們是在國際的這個職業賽場上他們是表現傑出就舉例來說例如說過去一年裡面到底有哪些參加過這個有獎金賽事的選手來自台灣這個運動部你們有沒有去統計過你們有沒有去了解你們手邊有沒有資訊因為事實上這個你從國際資料庫裡面都找得到所以我們基礎的我們有沒有掌握我們台灣到底有哪些這些職業把電競當成職業選手"},{"start":8557.952,"end":8578.235,"text":"他們已經在發光發熱缺少我們的支持我們連基礎資訊可能都沒有然後現在才要來去著手這個產業白皮書真的是太慢這個事情很重要但真的是太慢所以難怪大家會焦慮說這個是不是因為只有這個運產條例不夠所以還要再訂其他的法"},{"start":8580.233,"end":8604.495,"text":"我們缺少的是作為部長真的是我們運動部我們的支持實際的做法這些辦法要再加速那很多人關切的是這個職業選手他們的發展那我們台灣我們可不可以再誕生這個冠軍的隊伍我要講的是說運動部我們還要去努力的是這個包含了賽事選手轉播贊助商這個之間是一個生態系的建立對不對"},{"start":8605.436,"end":8634.13,"text":"那你們過去有什麼我們現在針對運動產業針對職業運動你們有兩個機制一個去年我們在委會討論到的也是運產條例就是說要給產業租水優惠第二個是運動部你們有一個那種贊助選手的這個網路平台我不知道我們有沒有認為任何一位電競選手使用過我猜是沒有因為那個平台介面真的是有夠難用就是說我們現在很多東西是不能用不好用我們是沒有還是不夠用"},{"start":8635.233,"end":8654.399,"text":"我認為我們現在就是做得不夠好所以說我要再次的來去拜託剛剛在這個公聽會裡面我們一再的要求說要有委員會正式來舉辦公聽會就是這個原因我們任何的政策不能關起門來自己在立法院討論自己坐在辦公室裡面討論要聽到來自產業界來自校園來自這個選手第一線的人"},{"start":8658.14,"end":8674.631,"text":"意見跟聲音例如說剛剛講的我們因為這個缺乏穩定的賽事不管是職業賽事還是學生賽事所以呢它這個我們要怎麼樣去協助他們未來在整個制度環境上面有一個比較穩定的延續第二個是說因為電競它沒有IOC的單項協會所以說它的成績採計那運動部我們可以主動出面來解決啦"},{"start":8680.114,"end":8698.596,"text":"這不是沒有經驗因為我自己熟悉的這個街舞霹靂舞從還沒有納入奧運到納入奧運項目然後從這個他也是沒有單項協會所以後來我們加入了五種在五種下去成立街舞委員會霹靂舞委員會這個運動部都有經驗我們可以主動跟經紀人來協助就看你們要做不要做而已嘛"},{"start":8700.189,"end":8715.29,"text":"所以今天必須要再次沉重的來呼籲在今天的報告當中運動部告訴我們說對電競運動對電競產業我們是重視的那我們就要把作為提出來我們要把作為提出來"},{"start":8716.811,"end":8735.24,"text":"這個產業的這個白皮書跟你的辦法真的是要加速那我自己認為說很多的作為其實都不是來自於缺少法源有些你是行政命令可以處理就是你們自己運動部辦法訂定這個公告通過就可以那有些甚至不用要用到這個辦法"},{"start":8736.28,"end":8756.097,"text":"就是請你們提出預算 請你們提出計畫就可以來協助產業的所以我認為說我們要積極做得起來然後務必來加速那今天在公聽裡面大家提到的意見請任部要廣泛的來去更進一步詳細的了解好 謝謝好 謝謝吳佩儀委員"},{"start":8759.005,"end":8778.899,"text":"其實我們很不希望能夠來到處理這件事情那為什麼因為代表有發生問題我們才要處理我們當然是希望運動部能夠扛起責任把問題全部解決不需要有其他的委員來操心但是我想上一次"},{"start":8780.02,"end":8805.919,"text":"部長也有提到現行的法令的確沒有辦法支撐整個電競的一個需求所以我覺得這個部分我們才會今天面臨到需要來處理那也看到運動部回應說要有一個白皮書那我們都希望不應該到現在這個階段才有白皮書因為業界都在說電競真的是進入到了加護病房安寧病房"},{"start":8806.872,"end":8828.984,"text":"我們現在連要確認是哪一個醫師來診斷都有可能找不太到專責的單位所以白皮書能不能馬上有振興的部分這也是讓我們很擔憂的也希望運動部能夠加強來處理那是不是我們邀請雙北祥鶴銀髮電競戰隊的執行長施凱鈞"},{"start":8838.875,"end":8856.235,"text":"在座各位先進長官委員大家好我是施凱鈞那同時也是陽明交大長照碩士藥師同時也代表財團法輪中生學習基金會以及雙北祥鶴英法電競戰隊的執行長那我的專業背景橫跨了"},{"start":8857.436,"end":8871.354,"text":"醫療照護還有電競那今天站在這裡其實不只是代表電競產業的部分其實也是從長照的一些學術還有一些實務執行的角度來說明一下今天這個電競基本法的推動"},{"start":8872.535,"end":8881.665,"text":"如何為這個台灣的銀髮族留下一個位置那其實在台灣2025年已經進入到超高齡的社會那在65歲以上人口已經超過20%55歲以上人口超過650萬其實也佔台灣人口將近三成以上"},{"start":8890.094,"end":8918.72,"text":"那這個族群呢其實他們是有時間有經歷有學習意願只是我們在一些政策制度上面沒有辦法去跟上那研究顯示呢策略型的電競遊戲對於工作記憶空間認知多工處理有著顯著正向的效果那也是預防延緩失能失智很重要的訓練的一個面向所以對於電競對於銀髮族來說它不只是娛樂它也是健康促進的工具"},{"start":8919.6,"end":8930.827,"text":"所以今天針對這個基本法其實裡面有幾點是已經有涵蓋到一些訴求像是第一條針對健康參與及多元參與這部分其實有保障到銀髮族的電競參與這個本質也是多元健康參與的核心體現然後"},{"start":8940.754,"end":8957.075,"text":"第四條第四款針對於民定不同年齡身份背景平等參與的機會那這也是讓銀髮電競參與在其中一個很重要的一個依據然後在這個第五條第四款中長程的計畫就是民定身心健康合理訓練運動"},{"start":8960.039,"end":8979.561,"text":"運動傷害預防的部分其實對嬰法族健康促進需求可以在此款能夠有更明確的執行細節納入其中那鼓勵各級學校研究機構法人集團體辦理電競相關課程那這也是我們能夠從教育這個角度切入一個很重要的依據"},{"start":8980.816,"end":9010.576,"text":"那最後其實是針對於這個政府相關的支持,所以其實在於這個銀髮電競推動在SDGs一個促進永續發展,其實有很多人面向是可以去做一些支持,像SDG3良好健康的部分,電競認知訓練預防失智,促進55歲以上族群身心健康的部分,SDG4優質教育,結合教育部的一些熱靈學習體系,推動中生數位學習的教育,"},{"start":9011.377,"end":9030.955,"text":"然后SDG10减少不平等缩小营法组的数位落差保障平等参与科技社会的机会SDG11永续城市社区型的电竞活动强化地方社会的连结对于长照在地老化的一些政策推动是可以有更多的帮助的"},{"start":9031.916,"end":9050.813,"text":"SDG17夥伴關係其實目前在於電競這個領域特別是跟銀髮族去做結合它其實有達到跨部會不論是衛福部、教育部或者是我們的運動部它都有機會可以去做跨部會的協力產官學的合作甚至可以去做到國際的交流"},{"start":9051.494,"end":9079.816,"text":"那在推動銀髮電競的過程當中其實我自己也遇到蠻多的問題因為在教育部裡面樂齡學習的部分其實針對於電競這一塊其實是沒有特別去明定這一塊的資源的那衛福部的部分針對於健康亞健康的部分其實主要的一些經費跟發展方向主要還是落在巷弄長照站或是關懷據點的一些落實那電競這一塊其實是也沒有被定義清楚跟含瓜進去的"},{"start":9080.595,"end":9105.792,"text":"那在運動部的部分的話其實我們也更期待說對於銀髮族相關的一些運動的結合能夠有更多的活動跟發展像是教育部在全台灣有非常多的樂齡學習中心將近有368所左右涵蓋在全台灣每個鄉鎮市如果說我們把電競的教育能夠結合到這些地區的資源其實也可以把電競這一塊"},{"start":9107.173,"end":9115.352,"text":"落實到各個鄉鎮市然後衛福部也有所謂的長照的鄉弄長照站將近4000多個站所以上"},{"start":9116.294,"end":9143.207,"text":"那目前針對預防延緩失能失智相關的一些推動那如果未來也可以把電競這一塊結合進去的話也是一塊福音然後運動部這邊其實我們針對於新興運動有把電競這一塊包括進去那銀髮族這一塊我們也未來期待有更多的政策或是專項的一些補助可以針對銀髮族這一塊我們可以去做更多的努力這樣子"},{"start":9144.346,"end":9166.891,"text":"那韓國其實在2021年有推動相關的電競的相關的條例跟法律在電競的發展也有非常多的支持那雖然日本他們也沒有設立這個電競的專法但是其實在於銀髮電競目前在日本也是非常風靡那包含在像台灣我們也有非常多的爺爺奶奶"},{"start":9167.831,"end":9184.331,"text":"一起玩英雄聯盟也在這一塊找到了他們人生的快樂那在今年的3月到5月份我們也帶著銀髮電競訓練相關的這樣子的議題到苗栗縣跟苗栗縣的長照出去合作一個銀髮電競的示範計畫"},{"start":9187.322,"end":9203.416,"text":"這個班級裡面大概有15位的英法族然後平均的年齡是76歲最高齡的有86歲那帶著他們一起玩這個跑跑卡丁車然後還有荒野大亂鬥他們在這個過程當中我們發現一件事情"},{"start":9204.016,"end":9227.986,"text":"他們的出席率是百分之百幾乎沒有人缺席而且他們在這個過程當中得到了一個很大的收穫就是說我下次那個母親節的時候我的那個孫女孫子回來我終於有話題可以跟他們一起來做互動以前他們都自己在那邊玩手機跟平板現在我多了一個遊戲可以跟他們一起"},{"start":9229.647,"end":9244.355,"text":"飆車就是可以玩跑跑卡丁車所以其實在銀髮電競的推動裡面有三大好處第一個是預防延緩失能失智第二個是終身學習那第三個其實最重要的就是可以提倡跨世代的溝通"},{"start":9244.955,"end":9269.925,"text":"因為我們有了電競有了遊戲這樣子的話題讓我們的高齡族群跟我們的青年世代有更多的互動跟交流的機會那也非常的期待未來我們的電競能夠涵掛更多的族群不論是銀髮族甚至未來跟身障也可以去做到一些結合消除更多社會上的不平等以上是我的分享跟報告謝謝"},{"start":9273.575,"end":9290.268,"text":"好 謝謝執行長我們最近也在網路上看到這個銀髮在玩英雄聯盟那個畫面也是非常可愛也令我們非常的振奮那我想也要跟大家補充我想韓國這個叫做電子競技振興法那我們的內容就是參考"},{"start":9292.59,"end":9312.345,"text":"韓國電子競技的振興法也歡迎大家能夠幫我們來做一個比較來做一個參考那涉及很多的產業的部分我們的確在法條裡面已經有分門別類相關還原主管機關那也最重要的是韓國跟我們不一樣的地方是因為他們現在把它放在文化觀光體育部"},{"start":9313.206,"end":9333.916,"text":"所以他們的基本上法條裡面的裡面是寫得很清楚文化觀光體育是相對並重當初2017年入法的時候體育署就吃下來這樣子的一個相關責任所以那他今天就不能夠跳脫這個責任最重要的一個隸屬"},{"start":9335.257,"end":9356.052,"text":"那所以我們在這個部分上也希望透過今天的溝通來能夠讓相關的法案能夠立得更好能夠真正幫助到產業所以仰賴各位的一個意見感謝大家那下一位我們要邀請的是林志凡天火數位股份有限公司的總經理謝謝"},{"start":9365.723,"end":9372.629,"text":"主席各位委員各部位首長還有各位先進大家早安天火數位我們是負責競技遊戲的軟體開發的公司"},{"start":9379.335,"end":9403.462,"text":"那這樣的一個電子競技運動法不然它是以所謂的母法或是什麼樣子的法案的形式在推動的話其實對於我們這個產業來講的話我們是支持並且也希望能夠朝這方向去進行的因為其實電子競技有別於傳統的運動最主要的差異是說"},{"start":9404.822,"end":9418.299,"text":"籃球棒球或是乒乓球它並沒有單一公司它去擁有那個場地或者規則或是版權但是在電子競技運動裡面它有所謂的遊戲的權利人"},{"start":9421.178,"end":9451.058,"text":"那這個產業它如果可以被帶動起來的話它其實不單單只是運動產業本身被帶動它還有軟體、數位、硬體剛剛其實有很多專家學者其實有提到其實在台灣的話其實硬體我們其實發展得很好但是軟體似乎在電子經濟這個領域的話其實發展得並不是這麼的好現在來講其實是比較弱勢的那我也希望說今天也能夠代表這個產業能夠來去提供一些意見跟想法"},{"start":9451.958,"end":9465.985,"text":"那在這個基本法上面呢我們當然很高興大概能夠知道說未來會有一個運動部是所謂的中央的主管機關但是以目前現在的草案的內容如果只有提及到"},{"start":9467.866,"end":9489.215,"text":"會商或是只有進行所有的召集的話而沒有統合預算還有決策權那這個其實會造成很有可能是跨部會的一個責任的視角因為其實在進門的時候的話其實大家應該都有拿到其實大概有將近十個政府的部門他們提供的所謂的會議資料所以其實"},{"start":9491.175,"end":9512.768,"text":"一方面我覺得如果說把這樣的一個電子經濟的運動的產業發展全部都把這個loading放在運動部的話其實也會造成蠻大的一個困擾所以我會很希望說其實能夠建立一個比較明確的跨部會的一個平臺比如說設立跨部會的電子經濟發展的匯報"},{"start":9516.07,"end":9542.24,"text":"那可以每四年提出一個國家發展的計畫明確能夠列出各部會相關的分工那也能夠公佈執行的成果還有預算那更重要的是說讓剛剛提到的所謂的遊戲的權利人遊戲開發商發行商聯盟戰隊選手學校還有賽事業者都有一個正式參與的管道"},{"start":9545.444,"end":9555.635,"text":"那剛剛其實這個郭委員也有提到現在其實台灣的電子競技運動其實大部分都是採用國際的軟體或是國際的IP"},{"start":9559.008,"end":9582.748,"text":"那所以應該要把遊戲的權利人也能夠納入到我們整個政策的利害的關係裡面也就是說政府協會或者學校不能只是與賽事公司跟選手討論而忽略了遊戲IP的持有人草案的話應該要比較明文的承認遊戲授權是電競賽事成立的基本的前提"},{"start":9586.397,"end":9613.043,"text":"那當然其實扶植本土的遊戲成為電競的項目也是在這個法案裡面或是在這個整個產業發展裡面相當重要的一個環節那目前現在整個草案它的文字比較偏重選手場館還有國際參賽但是台灣多數的國際賽事使用的都是海外的遊戲那如果說政府只有補助外國的遊戲賽事那"},{"start":9615.323,"end":9644.2,"text":"可能對於培養賽事服務業是有效的但是對於強化台灣本身遊戲的IP這個其實是有欠缺也是我們希望能夠在這個地方能夠加強對於本土的遊戲成為競賽項目的一個扶植的發展跟政策包含可能國際聯賽的輸出或是海外發行跟賽事授權的一個相關的補助"},{"start":9645.68,"end":9665.189,"text":"但這裡有一個定義是說並不是所有的遊戲都是競技遊戲所以這裡其實也應該要把所謂的明確的區分遊戲產業跟電競產業並免定義不清未來的補助還有管理及統計都會失真"},{"start":9667.432,"end":9689.867,"text":"最後一點我希望能夠提到的是這個補助呢它其實應該是公開透明那也避免是透過可能是單一協會這樣的方式我希望說其實在在這個整個補助的資訊的這個部分呢能夠明確的去有一個評選的標準那對於利益的衝突"},{"start":9690.307,"end":9717.448,"text":"可以進行適當的揭露那補助的成果公開那也對於願意參加或願意扶持這個產業發展的各個樣子的單位或法案單位其實不以加入特定的協會為前提那允許遊戲公司學校地方政府還有民間的賽事單位能夠公平的申請那以上是我這邊對於這一次的法案的一些意見謝謝"},{"start":9722.415,"end":9744.815,"text":"好 我們也謝謝我們現場林志凡總經理所提到的那我想電競的確是有它的一個特殊性那當然我們也樂見其他的運動能夠被專法給保護 給保障 給提升權益但我也希望今天我們不應該只是專注在"},{"start":9746.195,"end":9771.14,"text":"為什麼只有電競有別的法沒有而是我們應該要考量到整個有沒有因為電競現在目前遇到的困境特殊性公共利益以及整個法律基於不同的事物不同的性質有沒有做出合理的差別規範我覺得現在就是因為我們看到這個領域他並沒有可以靠一般法"},{"start":9772.75,"end":9801.266,"text":"來協助處理它的特殊問題所以今天才會希望能夠搬上檯面大家一起來討論正是這個問題所以更希望說電競真的十多年了我們從世界冠軍到現在乏人問津到甚至我們的電競選手不斷的出軸被許多的國家給挖角這也是我們現在很大的一個困境"},{"start":9802.379,"end":9811.432,"text":"這個部分我們都應該來正式下一位我們邀請巨星創意文化股份有限公司的總經理邱冠宏邱總經理謝謝"},{"start":9817.112,"end":9842.123,"text":"各位長官先進大家好我是居心創意的Hank我們公司主要就是運營電子競技戰隊JTEAM我們前面其實剛才主席有提到我們就是收購了台灣冠軍隊伍JTEAM的公司老闆的興趣主業是唱歌前面大概就是後來變成遊戲是打Game但最近的興趣是打網球"},{"start":9843.283,"end":9860.928,"text":"但是因為其實我覺得今天在這個場合裡面基本法是否要定義這個坦白講我覺得不是我們產業界可以智慧的因為這個可能會影響到包含了整體國家的發展跟立法層級的問題"},{"start":9862.408,"end":9877.243,"text":"所以我們所能給出的意見主要是我們產業端來講更看重的是怎麼樣與有效的商業企業團體進行結合那因為我們製草啊因為我們做了十多年了"},{"start":9877.563,"end":9892.083,"text":"包含我們現在也有自己的亞運選手今年會去參加這個民國亞運然後再來我們也曾經舉辦過多個電競賽事那成立了十多年"},{"start":9894.149,"end":9908.415,"text":"錢丟到水溝裡也丟了十多年那我們唯一慶幸的就是我們賠的可能比籃球跟棒球少燒的速度比較慢那因為我們其實我們也有很長一段時間在跟前面的"},{"start":9909.275,"end":9929.45,"text":"算是運動部來進行做討論關於之前所提到的運產條例的26條裡面其實有所謂的補助的抵稅條例那我們在跟企業包含像中信跟台新他們聊過了之後坦白講現階段各大運動裡面幾乎都有監控的影子在"},{"start":9930.362,"end":9951.958,"text":"唯一的道理就是因為他們燒得起那如果用運產條例的補助來去看這件事情對他們來講可能他們補助了一百萬最後抵的可能了不起兩三萬與其拿那一百萬我來進行運動的相關的投入那我還不如拿那一百萬來去做其他的轉投資對他來講更有利"},{"start":9952.518,"end":9967.875,"text":"所以其實我今天比較想要聚焦的就是有沒有可能在現行因為羅委員跟發起委員其實提出的這些方向都是好的是如果說我們不一定放在基本法裡面而是在跟運動部討論之後可以順勢的"},{"start":9971.533,"end":9990.464,"text":"鼓勵民間企業對電子經濟產業去進行一個有效益的補助跟投入我覺得這可能是我們比較想要看到的因為我們所知道的就是財政部所編列那個大水庫應該都沒有申請完或者是都補發應該也都沒有補發完"},{"start":9991.605,"end":10015.515,"text":"所以我覺得這個我們自己看下來是首先他的申請不容易再來他的錢放在專戶裡面放的時間會比較長實際被受補助的企業拿到那個款項的時間較久所以我覺得這可能是一個問題然後再來就是我們覺得其實對於該產業的"},{"start":10019.378,"end":10045.883,"text":"企業定義可能要再更明確一些因為就我們所熟知近期可能許多委員長官對於電競產業的關注程度日益上升那可能也會導致各種想要領補助的企業如雨後春筍般成立不管各地的協會或者是各種奇怪的公司都說我今天要辦一個電競賽事突然他就可以拿到許多補助"},{"start":10046.463,"end":10061.236,"text":"所以我們希望的就是怎麼樣有效的定義這個產業它是屬於電子競技產業那它的補助是有被審核有被績效的一個過程"},{"start":10062.476,"end":10082.387,"text":"因為畢竟大家都納稅人嘛我也納稅那怎麼樣確保納稅人就是他的錢因為不是每個人對運動產業都有興趣我喜歡看籃球啊那為什麼不就是全部都補助籃球所以我覺得怎麼樣對於該產業的投入是被保護的我覺得這個相對重要然後另外就是"},{"start":10084.714,"end":10107.667,"text":"關於剛才提過的就是校園端我們對於校園端的期許就是因為我們知道許多校園現在會可能因為少子化為了招生需求會成立很多電競名目的這個不管是課程也好或什麼就是希望可以讓自己的學校可以有好的一個招生的一個立即點但坦白講那些學生可能他們不一定都有到學校去上課"},{"start":10108.727,"end":10128.356,"text":"所以我覺得是否要針對電子競技產業的相關的名目去進行這可能跟教育部比較有關係去進行課綱或是課業上面的調整這個我覺得是可以討論的因為我們希望看到的是如果針對亞奧運選手或者是職業運動選手"},{"start":10132.398,"end":10152.057,"text":"他到該校去就讀然後同時給予上課的一些師資上的一些回饋例如說可以透過暑期輔導寒假輔導來去補足課業上的不足我覺得這個是比較重要的而不是巧立名目去增加一些什麼電競系或什麼如果此例一開那可能"},{"start":10153.098,"end":10174.46,"text":"可能不管是籃球也有籃球系棒球也有棒球系這也不是我們所樂見的所以我們希望是因為對於電競產業的發展其實它會有一個無法跨過的坎就是目前幾乎所有的大項目熱門的項目都是國外的運動的電子競技遊戲的名目不管是英雄聯盟"},{"start":10175.741,"end":10189.63,"text":"或者是坦白講傳說對決他前身是王者榮耀那其實也是騰訊的不管是報學等等的所以對我們來講他的不可控太大那對於電子經濟的發展來講坦白講"},{"start":10192.071,"end":10210.036,"text":"大家都是一窩蜂的只要奪牌只要奪牌就突然變電競元年只要電競元年突然這個議題就又熱起來了又熱起來的情況下來講學校又好招生了但熱度沒有學校不好招生產業又不投入所以我覺得這個基本法或是相關的條例"},{"start":10211.436,"end":10240.242,"text":"應該是建立在他可以長久運營而不受IP所影響同時可以有利於不管是教育端或是我們講的職業選手他後續他退役之後重新返回職場校園可以給到輔助的一個我覺得是比較重要的一個支持所以這個我覺得是算是不管是這個法條或是這一次會議的方向我覺得都是希望朝這個地方來努力"},{"start":10241.222,"end":10257.69,"text":"這樣 好 謝謝大家好 謝謝專家學者及委員均已發言完畢現在我們是不是先請機關代表來做回應首先請運動部"},{"start":10269.168,"end":10288.357,"text":"主席各位委員那我想今天在場的專家學者以及政府官員我想我們對於電子競技的發展應該是目標都是一致我們希望可以發展電子競技那我們就運動部針對目前委員所提的這一個基本法其實我們就是如同剛剛委員有提到的在國體法以及發展條例有這一個規範"},{"start":10289.697,"end":10302.814,"text":"當然不足的地方我們希望用運動部的行政命令來加以補充那基本法其實是比較上位而且抽象的法律位階那剛剛委員又提到那我們擔心制定基本法會造成法律位階的混亂"},{"start":10303.885,"end":10325.201,"text":"那運動部支持這個電競產業的發展也認為說如同委員剛剛所提到的過去在體育署的時候那我們電競的發展確實慢了許多那今天運動部會在這個各位委員的建議下面來去支持這個電子競技產業然後並且在更加務實的部分來去做相關的這個發展那"},{"start":10327.162,"end":10355.879,"text":"後續我們也會邀請這個相關的這個專家來進行這個開會看我們可以運動部的角度可以來怎麼把來發展這個電子競技這邊的更加實務上的發展以上就這個運動部來先先行回應謝謝主席好謝謝其餘的練習機關代表有沒有補充回應說明我們現場教育部速發部"},{"start":10357.096,"end":10372.561,"text":"文化部經濟部勞動部衛生福利部以及國科會外交部內政部法務部財務部財政部不好意思有沒有要補充說明的部分"},{"start":10378.865,"end":10406.675,"text":"好 如果沒有的話下一個環節是主席的結語啦那因為不好意思我沒辦法下去發言我就在台上那當然我也想特別感謝專家學者不管今天是代表哪一方我很感謝你們今天坐在這邊也很感謝你們發言完以後沒有離開那能夠陪我們到最後你們的建議都很重要那但是我要跟大家特別報告"},{"start":10409.147,"end":10435.792,"text":"今天就像剛剛部長所提到的不管他未來用行政的函式或者是他訂定相關的辦法我們都樂見他能夠越來越好但是我們也要考慮到行政的函式運動部有辦法去跨部會要求其他的部會你一定要處理嗎那萬一別的部會也行政函式這應該是別人要處理的"},{"start":10437.262,"end":10453.79,"text":"這些辦法在訂定的時候能不能真正達到跨部會這是我們擔憂的那我也剛剛透過時間很認真的閱讀全國家長團體聯盟秋嫣姐我發現很棒啊"},{"start":10454.915,"end":10476.369,"text":"一定會有大家更好的意見我就沒辦法接受類博弈進入到校園所以不管是抽卡或者是扭蛋的機制我們的確要把它排除我們也相信真正的電競不應該是有這樣子的環節所以在法裡面我們原本的草案就有寫很清楚我們把博弈給排除但是可以寫得更細我們當然樂見"},{"start":10478.018,"end":10507.124,"text":"但今天為什麼要開這個公聽會我還是希望我們先從一個新聞談起剛剛有委員已經談到了今天處理電競的問題我們看到前幾天揮打執行長黃仁勳在韓國的行程他特別要拜會Faker這用意到底是什麼是因為打電競很厲害而已嗎是因為他是韓國的電競神而已嗎"},{"start":10508.663,"end":10530.166,"text":"我想還是回歸到他講的那一句話即使不知道電競都知道他的名字但是黃仁勳講的一句關鍵如果今天沒有PC遊戲沒有網咖沒有電競就不會有今天的揮打"},{"start":10532.219,"end":10561.665,"text":"所以它代表的是整個電競產業甚至是最重要的相關周邊的人才工作發展的一個前景但我們現在看到的是每個在做電競的產業的代表聊天不是聊你賺多少我賺多少真的聊天都在聊你賠多少我賠的比你少"},{"start":10564.073,"end":10582.831,"text":"為什麼會這樣我們是科技大國耶我們中華民國走出國際最驕傲的是我們的半導體我們的科技周邊可是為什麼我們電競卻輸給其他的國家這句話對台灣而言"},{"start":10584.861,"end":10609.321,"text":"回答的這樣子的一個執行長有這樣子的說法我覺得是一個很深刻的提醒國際科技的巨頭都看見的不只是選手在舞台上的一個競技表現而是他科技產業鏈所以整個全球而言電競已經不是遊戲甚至不只是比賽了它是下一個數位產業的一個競技"},{"start":10613.493,"end":10630.746,"text":"更是科技文化內容硬體整個青年市場最重要的交匯重要入口然而我們必須要面對的是台灣的現況部長也多次的提到我們運動產業發展條例從2017已經把電競納入10年了10年了"},{"start":10640.948,"end":10667.98,"text":"這十年我們在法律身份上承認電競產業的一環那時候看起來是起點但到現在我們竟然還在起點所以沒有進步就是退步原地踏步就是退步這正是我們今天要召開這一場公聽會最重要的一個責任還有我們必須共同面對的問題"},{"start":10670.819,"end":10696.377,"text":"所以立專法大家可以討論怎麼立但我們更希望立得更完善能夠做運動部的靠山讓這部專法讓運動部有所能夠啟動跨部會來動起來今天大家都看到這麼多本每一個部會所提出的相關回應真的太跨部會了"},{"start":10698.22,"end":10715.589,"text":"我們要怎麼整合讓產業能夠更加順利讓各部會能夠各施其職讓舉辦賽事台灣蓬勃發展讓所有的業者在舉辦賽事不會再遇到找運動部運動部告訴你速發部速發部告訴你經濟部"},{"start":10718.448,"end":10745.685,"text":"我就是看到這個問題我才希望能夠透過不管公聽會也好甚至是我排入議程告訴運動部我要來審這個法案喔來促使運動部正視這個問題所以我們也看到運動部告訴我們我們要有電子經濟的白皮書喔看起來有點遺憾最近才要開始研擬但是也希望能夠加緊處理"},{"start":10747.938,"end":10775.489,"text":"所以目前電競產業仍然面臨許多實務上真正的困境選手的轉弦還有家長的擔憂社會的沒辦法全面的接受戰隊經營資源分散賽事環境不夠穩定越多賽事對選手更多的激勵拿到更多獎盃獎牌甚至獎金"},{"start":10778.819,"end":10807.29,"text":"場館法規的認定也在模糊我也辦了好幾次的考察在場館的爭取其實我們都面臨到很多的問題更重要是剛剛我們的業者也在說國際原廠授權對接的工具這些都是讓我們很擔憂的因為它有別於傳統運動規則一直在變這就是我們面臨到的困境"},{"start":10808.635,"end":10830.495,"text":"其他的運動我們看到有些細部的規格可能稍微變動但他還是那一項運動可是電子競技原廠的一個更新可能就讓整個半年來的整個集訓培訓複製一句要重新再來培養"},{"start":10832.116,"end":10842.132,"text":"所以我們希望能夠回應整個電子競技產業本身的複雜需求乃至於現在的法令很難用單一的傳統運動邏輯來承接"},{"start":10846.249,"end":10866.68,"text":"所以其他的學者所提供的意見我們也尊重但是我們也希望共同來看到它的複雜性它的特殊性來共同面對所以今天討論的核心目標就是希望能夠透過法令的工具把分散不同的部會法規"},{"start":10868.001,"end":10880.038,"text":"工具政策集合集中在一起來政府能夠真正回應到產業的需求讓市場能夠更有能量更穩定的來做一個發展所以"},{"start":10881.007,"end":10904.095,"text":"再一次感謝我們現場所有電子競技產業的實務工作者你們比任何人甚至比我都還要更了解現在的實務需求狀況選手怎麼培育戰隊怎麼經營賽事怎麼推動場館怎麼認定人才怎麼培育授權怎麼協調你們都知道真節點所以我們需要你們"},{"start":10905.157,"end":10928.904,"text":"所以這一場公聽會我相信它一定會有意義我相信它會讓目前停滯不前的這個狀況能夠稍微推進這也是我推動電子競技運動發展的基本法最重要的一個原因我要再一次感謝現場與會的專家學者你們每一位"},{"start":10930.014,"end":10940.26,"text":"都是這一步專法或者是未來政府推動政策最重要的推手之一我們大家一起努力再次感謝大家 謝謝"},{"start":10946.561,"end":10967.993,"text":"好 本日公聽會到此告一段落感謝所有的與會者提供的意見今天發言的內容與書面資料以及莊惠雄委員所提出的書面意見我們都要列入記錄刊登公報並製作公聽會的報告送交本院全體委員還有出席的與會人員參考"},{"start":10969.634,"end":10995.509,"text":"再次感謝我們現場所有的與會者來參加今天的公聽會所提供的資料我們會審慎的考量作為我們修法的依據那也要再次麻煩大家我們今天有準備便當請大家一定要帶一份回去感謝大家 謝謝現在散會我們是不是邀請部長"},{"start":10996.972,"end":11011.602,"text":"來到中間我們今天與會的所有專家學者一起我們共同來做一個攝影好嗎好我們有請所有的專家學者來到前面謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}