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孫秘書長"},{"start":1882.318,"end":1910.152,"text":"外交及国际事务学院黎倩仪黎副院长领事事务局郑正勇政局长财团法人国际合作发展基金会史立军史副秘书长财团法人台湾民主基金会廖达奇廖执行长财团法人太平洋经济合作理事会中华民国委员会许俊斌许秘书长"},{"start":1912.301,"end":1919.874,"text":"主席總處張正輝張專門委員我們其他人員請參考桌上所附名單資料"},{"start":1924.158,"end":1950.663,"text":"本日會議繼續審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於外交部主管收支公開及機密部分今天進行處理處理才先公開後秘密首先審查公開的部分請議事人員宣讀預算書以及委員提案宣讀期間在場人員如果有需要可自由離座宣讀完畢後移到協商桌處理提案請宣讀"},{"start":1955.305,"end":1983.164,"text":"一百一十五年度中央政府總預算案外交部主管收支公開部分一稅入部分第二款罰款及賠償收入第七十六項外交部一百一十萬元第七十七項領事事務局無劣數第三款規費收入第六十二項外交部八千元第六十三項領事事務局三十五億兩百五十二萬六千元第四款財產收入第八十五項外交部三千三百八十五萬六千元第八十六項領事事務局六萬一千元"},{"start":1983.844,"end":2003.529,"text":"第87項外交及國際事務學院10萬元第7款其他收入第84項外交部3億9390萬元第85項領事事務局622萬9千元第86項外交及國際事務學院27萬1千元二稅出部分第8款外交部主管花五半機密部分第1項外交部"},{"start":2004.102,"end":2018.09,"text":"三百七十八億九百一十六萬九千元第一幕一般行政九十四億兩千一百零四萬八千元第二幕外交管理業務三億兩千三百八十二萬元第三幕住外機構業務三十八億四千五百一十六萬三千元"},{"start":2019.568,"end":2025.292,"text":"第四目 國際會議及交流35億4,673萬5千元第五目 國際合作及關懷202億8,484萬2千元第六目 一般建築及設備3億1,756萬1千元第七目 第一預備金7千萬元第二項 臨時事務局"},{"start":2038.34,"end":2059.16,"text":"十八億兩千兩百一十一萬元第一幕一般行政三億兩千兩百四十六萬兩千元第二幕臨時事務管理十四億九千八百一十四萬八千元第三幕第一預備金一百五十萬元第三項外交及國際事務學院一億一千三百一十二萬四千元第一幕一般行政八千四百八十一萬六千元第二幕"},{"start":2059.605,"end":2072.897,"text":"外交領事人員獎席28,183,000元第三幕一般建築及設備五列數第四幕第一預備金125,000元現在宣讀委員之預算提案第一案"},{"start":2074.349,"end":2096.324,"text":"外交部稅出減列一億四百二十一萬九千元委員馬文君等人提案第二案第一幕一般行政減列七億一千零八十一萬兩千元凍結十億元委員馬文君等提案第三案至第十一案為第一幕一般行政基本行政工作維持業務費之提案第三案減列五十萬元凍結二十萬元"},{"start":2098.065,"end":2108.048,"text":"委員馬文君等人提案第四案凍結3000萬元委員黃仁等人提案第五案一般事務費凍結150萬元委員馬文君等人提案第六案房屋建築養護費凍結15%委員徐巧欣等人提案第七案房屋建築養護費凍結300萬元委員陳俊宇等人提案第八案房屋建築養護費凍結250萬元委員馬文君等人提案第九案房屋建築養護費凍結2000萬元委員牛許廷等人提案第十案"},{"start":2126.584,"end":2141.173,"text":"房屋建築養護費凍結一千萬元委員牛許廷等提案第十一案設備及投資凍結10%委員徐曉新等提案第十二案至第十五案為第一幕資訊管理資訊處理資提案第十二案"},{"start":2141.864,"end":2168.54,"text":"檢列1億元凍結1億元委員馬文君等提案第13案凍結300萬元委員馬文君等提案第14案業務費凍結200萬元委員陳俊宇等提案第15案業務費通訊費凍結100萬元委員王定宇等提案第16案至第18案為第一幕台灣美國事務委員會事務管理之提案第16案檢列200萬元委員馬文君等提案第17案業務費檢列100萬元委員黃仁等提案"},{"start":2169.042,"end":2175.125,"text":"第18案業務費凍結50萬元委員陳俊宇等提案第19案至第21案為第二幕外交管理業務之提案第19案凍結3%委員王安祥等提案第20案凍結10%委員馬文君等提案第21案減列3,285萬元凍結25%委員黃俊斌等提案第22案至第33案為第二幕基本行政工作維持之提案第22案凍結300萬元委員劉許廷等提案"},{"start":2198.783,"end":2206.025,"text":"第23案 檢列363萬元為馬文君等 提案第24案 檢列2380萬元為馬文君等 提案第25案 檢列1000萬元 凍結600萬元為牛許廷等 提案第26案 業務費凍結3%為王翔等 提案第27案 業務費為半費 檢列500萬元為馬文君等 提案"},{"start":2220.151,"end":2230.259,"text":"委辦費減列100萬元委員馬文君等提案第29案一般事務費凍結10%委員徐巧欣等提案第30案一般事務費減列1000萬元委員黃仁等提案第31案一般事務費減列80萬元委員王逸川等提案第32案一般事務費凍結20%委員劉雪婷等提案第33案國外旅費凍結100萬元委員羅美玲等人提案"},{"start":2243.834,"end":2262.687,"text":"第34案,第二幕,各地区工作汇报业务费减列100万元,委员黄仁等提案。第35案,第二幕,外交领事人员进修冻结100万元,委员王定宇等提案。第36至第48案为,第二幕,制作国情资料业务费制提案。第36案,冻结4千万元,委员牛徐廷等提案。"},{"start":2263.274,"end":2268.776,"text":"第37案 凍結3000萬元委員黃仁等提案第38案 凍結10%委員王安祥等提案第39案 凍結500萬元委員劉許廷等提案第40案 凍結100萬元委員王定宇等提案第41案 凍結100萬元委員王定宇等提案第42案 減列600萬元委員馬文君等提案第43案 凍結200萬元委員陳鴻鋼等提案第44案"},{"start":2288.401,"end":2313.677,"text":"减列五千万元委员马文君等提案第四十五案减列两百万元委员马文君等提案第四十六案一般数费冻结两千五百万元委员王安祥等提案第四十七案一般数费冻结十%委员徐巧兴等提案第四十八案国内旅费减列十五万元委员陈冠廷等提案第四十九案第三幕驻外机构业务减列一千九百四十二万七千元委员黄建斌等提案"},{"start":2314.11,"end":2323.494,"text":"第50案至第57案為第三目駐外使領單位基本行政工作維持之提案第50案凍結250萬元委員馬文君等提案第51案凍結200萬元委員王定宇等提案第52案凍結500萬元委員陳永康等提案第53案業務費凍結500萬元委員林儲英等提案第54案業務費減列3億元凍結10%委員馬文君等提案第55案教育訓練費凍結10%"},{"start":2341.26,"end":2360.074,"text":"委員徐曉新等提案第56案一般事務費減列1767萬7千元委員黃仁等提案第57案其他補助及捐助凍結10%委員王翔等提案第58案第三目駐外文化中心基本行政工作維持一般事務費凍結4%委員劉許廷等提案第59案之第62案為第4目參與國際組織活動之提案第59案凍結300萬元委員馬文君等提案第60案凍結200萬元"},{"start":2370.751,"end":2378.66,"text":"委員黃仁等人提案第61案凍結100萬元委員黃仁等人提案第60案業務費減列1億元凍結1億元委員馬文君等人提案第63至第66案為第4目協助各種國際交流活動之提案第63案減列400萬元凍結200萬元委員馬文君等人提案第64案凍結10%委員劉許廷等人提案"},{"start":2391.738,"end":2411.567,"text":"第65案對國內團體資捐助凍結5000萬元委員黃仁等提案第66案對國內團體資捐助凍結100萬元委員王定宇等提案第68案至第71案為第4目協助各種國際交流活動學術交流活動之提案第68案凍結2000萬元委員黃仁等提案第69案凍結500萬元委員盧美玲等提案第70案凍結70萬元"},{"start":2417.608,"end":2421.958,"text":"委員第70案凍結300萬元委員馬文君等提案第71案凍結10%委員徐巧欣等提案"},{"start":2425.731,"end":2454.351,"text":"第七十二案至第七十八案為第四目協助各種國際交流活動、文化交流活動之提案第七十二案檢列一百五十萬元委員黃仁等提案第七十三案檢列一千萬元凍結二十%委員黃建斌等提案第七十四案凍結四千一百五十二萬元委員劉許廷等提案第七十五案凍結十%委員徐曉新等提案第七十六案檢列七百萬元委員馬文娟等提案第七十七案檢列兩百五十萬元委員黃建斌等提案"},{"start":2454.895,"end":2469.74,"text":"第七十八案,凍結10%為黃人等提案。第七十九至九十一案為第四目,協助各種國際交流活動、經貿交流活動之提案。第七十九案,凍結10%為馬文君等提案。第八十案,"},{"start":2470.145,"end":2478.853,"text":"凍結100萬 委員馬文君等人提案第81案 檢列300萬元 凍結300萬元 委員馬文君等人提案第82案 凍結600萬元 委員劉許廷等人提案第83案 凍結20% 委員黃仁等人提案第84案 凍結100萬元 委員馬文君等人提案第85案 檢列300萬元 凍結10% 委員黃建斌等人提案第86案 凍結1450萬元 委員劉許廷等人提案第87案 凍結300萬元 委員黃仁等人提案"},{"start":2497.469,"end":2525.343,"text":"第八十八案 凍結一百五十萬元委員陳俊宇等人提案第八十九案 凍結一百萬元委員馬文君等人提案第九十案 檢列一千萬元 凍結五千萬元委員馬文君等人提案第九十一案 凍結石棚盛委員黃仁等人提案第九十二案 制第一百零七案為第四目協助各種國際交流活動其他協助各項國際交流活動之提案第九十二案 檢列一千萬元委員黃建斌等人提案第九十三案 凍結兩千萬元委員劉雪婷等人提案"},{"start":2525.953,"end":2534.406,"text":"第九十四案,凍結20%,委員徐巧欣等人提案。第九十五案,凍結20%,委員黃建斌等人提案。第九十六案,簡列500萬元,凍結500萬元,委員馬文君等人提案。第九十七案,凍結10%,委員黃仁等人提案。"},{"start":2541.209,"end":2554.578,"text":"第98案 凍結200萬元委員馬文君等 提案第99案 凍結200萬元委員陳俊宇等 提案第100案 凍結100萬元委員林祖英等 提案第101案 凍結100萬元委員盧美林等 提案第102案 檢列400萬元 凍結20%委員黃建斌等 提案第103案 檢列2000萬元 凍結2000萬元委員黃仁等 提案第104案 凍結4%"},{"start":2567.403,"end":2587.579,"text":"委員徐巧欣等人提案,第105案凍結100萬元,委員盧美玲等人提案,第106案檢列1億元,委員王逸川等人提案,第107案凍結10%,委員徐巧欣等人提案,第108至第109為第四目出國訪問之提案,第108案凍結25%,委員黃建斌等人提案,第109案凍結10%,委員馬文君等人提案,"},{"start":2588.393,"end":2597.638,"text":"第110至113案為第4目防兵接待之提案第110案凍結10%委員馬文君等提案第111案凍結2000萬元委員林竹英等提案第112案凍結1500萬元委員馬文君等提案第113案業務費凍結20%委員徐巧欣等提案第114案第5目國際合作及關懷凍結1000萬元委員陳俊宇等提案第115至112案為第5目"},{"start":2616.331,"end":2633.441,"text":"住外技術服務制提案第115案凍結200萬元委員陳俊宇等提案第116案凍結15%委員黃建斌等提案第117案凍結15%委員黃建斌等提案第118案業務費凍結2000萬元委員馬文君等提案第119案業務費凍結200萬元委員陳俊宇等提案第120案業務費違辦費凍結5000萬元委員黃仁等提案第121案獎補助費凍結1000萬元委員馬文君等提案第122案"},{"start":2647.568,"end":2669.535,"text":"對國內團體資捐助凍結五千萬元委員黃仁等提案。第122至第142案為第五目加強雙邊及多邊合作之提案。第123案凍結五百萬元委員沈波漾等提案。第124案凍結五百萬元委員陳永康等提案。第125案凍結兩百萬元委員王定宇等提案。第126案檢列五百萬元凍結10%委員徐巧欣等提案。"},{"start":2670.014,"end":2693.081,"text":"第127案對外資捐助凍結20%委員黃仁等提案第128案對國內團體資捐助減列200萬元委員黃仁等提案第129案凍結15%委員黃建斌等提案第130案凍結10%委員王安祥等提案第131案凍結500萬元委員馬文君等提案第132案凍結20%委員黃仁等提案第133案凍結1500萬元委員馬文君等提案134案凍結"},{"start":2698.553,"end":2722.155,"text":"兩千萬元委員馬文君等人提案一百三十五案檢定五百萬元凍結兩千萬元委員馬文君等人提案第一百三十六案凍結二十五%委員黃建斌等人提案第一百三十七案凍結二十%委員徐巧欣等人提案第一百三十八案凍結一億元委員黃仁等人提案第一百三十九案凍結兩千萬元委員馬文君等人提案第一百四十案凍結二十%委員黃仁等人提案"},{"start":2723.459,"end":2743.229,"text":"第141案 凍結五千萬元委員黃仁等人提案第142案 凍結10%委員薛巧欣等人提案第143至第146案為第五目對國際之關懷救助及重建之提案第143案 凍結一億元委員馬文君等人提案第144案 凍結一億元委員馬文君等人提案第145案 凍結五千萬元委員黃仁等人提案第146案"},{"start":2748.479,"end":2763.327,"text":"對外資捐助凍結2%委員王安祥等提案第147至第151案為第6目一般建築及設備之提案營建工程之提案第147案凍結1000萬元委員陳俊宇等提案第148案凍結5%委員王逸川等提案第149案凍結500萬委員林楚瑩等提案第150案凍結1000萬元委員馬文君等提案第151案設備"},{"start":2775.802,"end":2789.729,"text":"及投資房屋建築及設備費凍結10%委員黃仁等人提案第152至第153案為第6目駐外單位汰換公務車司提案第152案凍結10%委員馬文君等人提案第153案運輸設備費減列2000萬元凍結1300萬元委員黃建斌等人提案第154案至第193案為主決議現在宣讀主決議之內容"},{"start":2805.799,"end":2834.287,"text":"第154案115年度外交部第三幕駐外機構業務向下駐外使領單位基本行政工作維持中其他補助及捐助編列預算355萬9千元近年國際局勢動盪天災戰亂貧人對旅外國人緊急撤離或訪國之需求時有所見116年應增加相關預算提案人委員王逸川等人第155案"},{"start":2836.65,"end":2861.356,"text":"一百一十五年度外交部第三目驻外机构业务向下驻外实领单位基本行政工作维持中业务费编列辖区访问驻外监控地区采购补助及其他应供出差等所需旅费预算五千九百七十万九千元外交部应于一百一十年增加相关加急及预算提案人委员王逸川等人第一百五十六案"},{"start":2862.059,"end":2891.035,"text":"一百一十五年度外交部第五幕國際之關懷救助及重建向下本年度編列預算十億五千兩百三十六萬七千元較上年度減列國際重大災變救援款新台幣一億七千三百七十七萬八千元減幅不容小覷國際人道救援與災後重建工作系我國展現民主價值彰顯人道關懷精神之重要外交工作外交部應與一百一十年度增加增列相關預算提案人委員王逸川等人"},{"start":2891.795,"end":2914.989,"text":"第157案 原請外交部就中東戰事引發人道危機之積極救援作為於兩個月內向立法院外交及國防委員會提出書面報告提案人委員王安祥德人第158案 洪都拉斯現任總統阿斯夫拉與競選期間承諾恢復與我國外交關係洪都拉斯技術團隊正積極審視前任政府"},{"start":2916.926,"end":2943.751,"text":"执政期间与中国签署之十六项协议内容,评估其经济影响。外交部应积极把握当前有利时机就相关情势事实进行说明。提案人委员王逸川等人第159案。建请外交部于两个月内就今年投资十国概况及导政错假讯息传播之作为。向立法院、外交及国防委员会提出顺便报告提案人委员王昂祥等人第160案。"},{"start":2944.946,"end":2964.04,"text":"敬請外交部於兩個月內就台歐半導體人才培育計畫成效指標與追蹤機制向立法院外交及國防委員會提出出面報告提案人委員王安祥等人第161案我國駐以色列代表訪問位於約旦河西岸時表達願意捐款資助當地資"},{"start":2965.53,"end":2979.643,"text":"囤墾屈指醫療計畫,隨即引發相關爭議。原件請外交部於一個月內向立法院、外交及國防委員會提出書面報告。提案人委員王安祥等人。第162案,建請外交部積極檢視相關數位AI及AI合作計畫,"},{"start":2984.057,"end":2998.608,"text":"強化跨部會協調機制並持續推動具體國際合作與外交成果落實提案人員王定宇等人第163案外交部125年度國際合作及關懷加強雙邊及多邊合作分支計劃向下編列5億3722萬5千元辦理瓜地馬拉及巴拉圭"},{"start":3003.971,"end":3030.604,"text":"導體晶片外交及AI數位合作等相關計劃為目前相關計劃多停留於合作備忘錄人才交流及政策宣示階段原件請外交部檢視半導體晶片外交之執行成效強化瓜布會協調與績效追蹤機制並提升我國科技外交之實質效益提案人員王定宇等人第164案115年度外交部第二幕外交管理業務向下外交及國際"},{"start":3031.761,"end":3058.494,"text":"法研究獎學金設置編列109萬5千元為評估現行獎學金名額及經費編列是否足以有效吸引培育優秀人才並檢視獎學金金額是否具備足夠誘因申請資格與遴選機制是否完善原請外交部持續檢討優化並增加國際法研究獎學金之獎助金額遴選機制申請人數提案人委員王逸川等人第165萬"},{"start":3059.79,"end":3087.368,"text":"一百十五年度外交部第三目驻外机构业务向下驻外医疗卫生推广业务基本行政工作维持预算编列两百一十一万三千元医疗外交为我国为台湾拓展国际空间之重要软实力工具请外交部与卫福部延宁将一百一十六年度驻外医疗卫生业务相关预算增列提案人委员王逸川等人第一百六十六案一百十五年度外交部第三目驻外机构业务向下驻外"},{"start":3087.827,"end":3110.092,"text":"觀光單位基本行政工作維持編列預算1174萬8千元推展入境觀光為當前重要的施政方向為充分推廣各項活動之執行請請請外交部與觀光署與116年度甄列相關預算提案人員王逸川等人第167案115年度外交部第4幕國際會議及交流預算編列35億4673萬5千元辦理亞太地區學術外交活動預算編列100萬元學術外交系我國"},{"start":3117.165,"end":3134.92,"text":"在正式外交管道受限之情況下深化與亞太各國實質關係之重要途徑目前該案推動動能量仍不足且積極性不過為進一步推動本計劃110年度應擴大辦理並積極執行相關預算提案人委員王逸川等人第168"},{"start":3137.764,"end":3145.466,"text":"115年度外交部預算第四幕國際會議及交流項下參與國際組織活動預算編列4億8277萬9千元台灣長期遭受中共打壓參與國際組織及多邊機制之空間受到嚴重壓縮聯合國及其專門機構迄今仍將台灣排除在外有鑒於此外交必應全面強化推廣110"},{"start":3160.066,"end":3180.775,"text":"六年度因倍增相关预算及人员、提案人委员王逸川等人。第169案,我国与索马利兰共和国政府签署医疗合作协定,并派遣常驻医疗团队进驻索马利兰首府医院,系推动援助索马利兰公卫医疗专案之重要成果。"},{"start":3181.713,"end":3203.01,"text":"請外交部與衛福部與110年度陣列相關預算提案人委員王逸川等人第170案115年度外交部第二幕外交管理業務向下外交領事人員進修預算編列1291萬4千元其中選送特考及格外交領事人員赴國外接受語文訓練及國際組織實習所需機票款等預算編列1013萬元"},{"start":3209.741,"end":3232.138,"text":"请外交部评估有无进一步扩大投资,提升选送人次之空间,以充分培育优质外交人才,强化整体外交量能。提案人委员王逸川等人。第171案,鉴于近年我国民众与国际体育赛事现场为我国选手加油时,旅船因携带国旗展示台湾之样标语获以台湾。"},{"start":3232.799,"end":3261.333,"text":"民意应援招主办单位或场馆安全人员制止没收其制甚至被驱离观众席之情势原此外交部应于本预算年度内建立国际赛事观赛应援标准事前沟通机制之具体措施确保我国民众得以在国际赛场自由安心地为国家选手加油提案人委员沈伯扬等人第172案查目前经济外交之各项推动成果擅见于不同部会之业务范畴"},{"start":3261.857,"end":3287.962,"text":"缺乏統整性之對外說明與定期揭露機制這使國人難以全面了解我國經濟外交之實質進展與策略方向原始外交部應協同經濟部國家發展委員會及其他相關部會建立經濟外交成果定期公開機制每年向立法院外交及國防委員會提出外交經濟成果報告首次報告應與本決議通過後下一會期內送交事後"},{"start":3288.88,"end":3313.733,"text":"事后按会起常态办理提案人委员沈伯扬等人第173案 鉴于中国持续以经济胁迫与外交孤立手段打压我国国际参与空间我国除透过政府沉寂之外交努力外因经济运用民间企业之国际商业网络拓展与各国之合作关系原始外交部应于本预算年度内研理以台湾利益为前提之企业国际交流辅导方案"},{"start":3314.841,"end":3338.718,"text":"后指我国与全球经贸体系中能见度与影响力,提案人委员沈博洋等人。第174案,建警外交部针对2026年太平洋岛国论坛我国参与规划中国介入太平洋区域事务之风险评估,以及深化我国与太平洋友邦合作之具体作为,于两个月内向立法院外交及国防委员会提出书面报告,提案人委员林楚英等人。第175案,"},{"start":3340.307,"end":3346.856,"text":"查中國近年對中南美洲地區之政策以非單純經貿拓展而系透過金錢外交基礎建設"},{"start":3347.853,"end":3377.037,"text":"承諾貸款及市場優異 刻壓打壓刻意壓縮我國外交空間 欠請外交部針對中南美洲地區中國影響力變化 斷交國對中合作成效及我國可能外交突破機會演繹強化我國與中南美洲外交部局之具體策略與三個元年相提法 用外交及國防委員會提出書面報告提案人委員林柱英等人第176案查匈牙利長期為我國在中東歐推動一帶一路及深化"},{"start":3377.901,"end":3394.828,"text":"政經影響力之重要據點原建請外交部針對匈牙利政局變化及中東歐情勢轉變研議我國強化台胸關係及拓展中東歐外交之具體策略並於三個月內向立法院外交及國防委員會提出出面報告提案人委員林楚瑩等人第177案"},{"start":3396.704,"end":3417.559,"text":"外交部115年度国际合作及关怀向下对国际之关怀救助及重建办理派遣行动医疗团副友邦及由我国家议诊捐助医疗器材等国际人道救援与服务事项,为避免医疗器材捐助流于一次性支出,重复捐赠设备闲置或无法维修,也要求外交部于6个月内"},{"start":3418.212,"end":3443.431,"text":"會同衛福部財團法人國際合作基金會及相關執行單位建立醫療器材捐贈管理制度並順利法院外交及國防委員會被查提案人委員馬文君等人第178案外交部115年度國際合作及關懷向下對國際之關懷救助及重建辦理派遣行動醫療團附有邦及有我國家一人等國際人道醫療救援事項"},{"start":3445.634,"end":3464.137,"text":"原要求外交部于三个月内建立国际疫诊及行动医疗团成效揭露机制,并自115年度起按年度向立法院外交及国防委员会提出出面报告,提案人委员马文君等人。第179案,元首出访细我国,突破外交重要作为之一。"},{"start":3465.202,"end":3474.611,"text":"近期,賴總統出訪史瓦帝尼近時無前例,於出訪前一日宣布無法出訪,我國國格遭受極大傷害。外交部及相關單位應負責並積極檢討審慎防範未來相同情況再度發生,原建請外交部審慎規劃,原首出訪。提案人委員陳永康等人"},{"start":3487.182,"end":3513.613,"text":"我國與索馬利蘭自2020年互設代表處以來雙邊關係及互動日益密切115年度外交部持續編列援助索馬利蘭公衛醫療專案經費3900萬元援建請外交部持續評估與索馬利蘭之實質關係並積極拓展雙邊及多邊合作機會深化各項合作交流與戰略夥伴關係提案人委員陳俊宇等人"},{"start":3515.287,"end":3540.433,"text":"第181案台灣與日本沖繩縣與納國島地理位置距離相近與宜蘭縣蘇澳縣直線距離僅約110公里且存在歷史及文化淵源為目前台灣及與納國島間之交通及交流機制仍有相當受限相關運輸之規劃迄今尚未具體突破原件請外交部持續與日方積極協調推動台灣及"},{"start":3543.688,"end":3553.403,"text":"與納國島兼資合作,研議建立民生物質資源與流通機制,並評估推動海運直航之可行性,以深化台日地方交流。"},{"start":3558.285,"end":3586.31,"text":"115年度外交部第二幕外交管理業務向下製作國情資料中業務費之一般事務費製作國家形象廣告及相關推廣活動之媒體政策業務宣導費編列1500萬元為補強通路擴散與成效追蹤並請一併評估與國際航空公司合作與機上娛樂播放之可行性原件請外交部於一兩個月內向立法院外交及國防委員會提出書面報告提案人委員陳冠廷等人"},{"start":3586.894,"end":3610.693,"text":"第183案外交部第二幕外交管理業務向下製作國情資料中業務費至一般收費與國際知名跨國頻道合作製播國情主題影片編列預算一千百萬元為確保提升公共外交處級原建警外交部於兩個月內向立法院外交及國防委員會提出書面報告提案人委員陳冠廷等人"},{"start":3612.199,"end":3630.585,"text":"第184案外交部第四幕國際會議及交流向下協助各種國際交流活動中一般數費編列預算825萬元為確保預算效益與治理品質原件請外交部於兩個月內向立法院外交及國防委員會提出書面報告提案人員陳冠廷等人第185案"},{"start":3633.984,"end":3656.572,"text":"115年度外交部外交及国际事务学院第二幕外交领事人员讲习向下短期进修专业训练及国际交流中业务费编列预算700万元查本案为新设计划为目前未见任何之具体说明原件请外交部于两个月内向立法院外交及国防委员会提出书面报告"},{"start":3657.233,"end":3680.319,"text":"提案人委員陳冠廷等人 第一百八十六萬一百一十五年度外交部第二幕外交管理業務向下外交及國際法研究獎學金設置一般事務費預算編列一百零九萬五千元為確保學生受獎之權益督促相關人員依要點精準編列原件請外交部於兩個月內向立法院外交及國防委員會"},{"start":3681.141,"end":3699.135,"text":"提出書面報告提案人委員陳冠廷等人第187案115年度外交部第4幕國際會議及交流向下協助各種國際交流活動研究設計會其他協助各種國際交流活動補助台灣民主基金會2億4835萬6千元查基金會旅費預算有114年900萬大幅增加至115年度1500萬元增幅近7成"},{"start":3707.967,"end":3723.052,"text":"原件請外交部及基金會於兩個月內就旅費增額之規劃及上述輿論風險向立法院外交及國防委員會提出書面報告提案人委員陳冠廷等人第188、115年度外交部第四幕國際會議及交流向下"},{"start":3725.424,"end":3753.172,"text":"协助各种国际交流活动中业务费至一般事务费北美时预算编列一亿六千八百万两千元美国幅员广大各州关注议题参与甚具原件请外交部于两个月内向立法院外交及国防委员会提出书面报告说明如何运用公关公司是否办理民调数据以利分州分众推动提升友台之力量提案人委员陈冠廷等人第189案"},{"start":3756.218,"end":3778.759,"text":"115年度外交部第二幕外交管理业务向下基本行政工作为止中一班数费推动公共公众外交及办理重要外交文宣业务等经费预算编列2380万元为确保预算效益与策略外交部也拧定完善之公众外交策略原件请外交部于两个月内向立法院外交及国防委员会提出出面报告"},{"start":3779.335,"end":3803.452,"text":"提案人委員陳冠廷等人第190案115年度外交部第一幕一般行政向下資訊處理中業務費之約用人員籌金編輯網站所需美工專業人員服務預算編列89萬元未確認網頁素材與政策敘述之對應性原件僅外交部於兩個月內向立法院外交及國防委員會提出書面報告提案人委員陳冠廷等人"},{"start":3804.383,"end":3829.338,"text":"第193案115年度外交部領事事務局第二幕領事事務管理向下領悟分支機構工作維持中業務費至一般事務費編列台灣桃園國際機場辦事處等分支機構所需基本行政工作維持費363萬6千元為確保編列合理原件請外交部於兩個月內向立法院外交及國防委員會提出書面報告提案人委員陳冠廷等人第192案"},{"start":3831.653,"end":3860.306,"text":"要求外交部就任之作战防制机制全民媒体试读教育及提升民众对外境外敌对势力资讯操作警觉性等规划与推动请外交部于三个月内向立法院外交及国防委员会提出书面报告提案人委员罗美宁等人第193案美国最高法院于2026年初裁定川普发布之对等关税政策威胁也引发各界对于关税协议是否能顺利落实之疑虑"},{"start":3861.209,"end":3886.054,"text":"未能充分了解美国最高法院作成违宪决议后续之影响,原件请外交部于三个月内向立法院外交及国防委员会提出书面报告。提案人委员罗美林等人。第194案,税出。领事事务局第一幕一般行政基本行政工作维持特别费冻结20%委员王安祥等提案。第195至197案为第二幕基本行政工作维持之提案。"},{"start":3886.789,"end":3903.477,"text":"第195案 凍結200萬元五元 劉許廷等提案第196案 凍結100萬元五元 林楚瑩等提案第197案 資訊軟硬體設備費凍結200萬元五元 黃仁等提案第198至199案 為第二幕印刷及製作護照業務費一般事務費之提案第198案 凍結200萬元五元 陳俊穎等提案第199案 一般事務費凍結100萬元五元 徐巧欣等提案"},{"start":3916.892,"end":3924.376,"text":"第200至第203案為第二目加強領悟服務工作資提案第200案凍結200萬元5元盧美玲等人提案第201案凍結150萬元5元劉雪芹等人提案第202案"},{"start":3930.753,"end":3940.338,"text":"凍結一百萬元五元馬文軍等提案 第203案業務費凍結一百萬元五元陳俊宇等提案 第204案第二幕外交領事人員講習 第一節外交領事人員訓練 凍結兩百萬元五元盧許廷等提案 第205案第二幕外交領事人員訓練 凍結五十萬元五元陳俊宇等提案 第206至第210案為第二幕短期進修專業訓練及國際交流業務費之提案 第206案"},{"start":3958.008,"end":3976.76,"text":"减列100万元冻结100万元委员马文君等人提案第207案冻结100万元委员卢美林等人提案第208案冻结10分之1委员卢美林等人提案第209案违办费冻结50万元委员陈俊宇等人提案第210案一般事务费冻结100万元委员黄仁等人提案宣读完毕"},{"start":4003.31,"end":4013.316,"text":"醫事人員宣讀完畢在進行主案討論之前向各位說明我們依循往例處理原則如下第一如果外交部已經向提案委員說明並達成共識請直接報告溝通成果或凍結刪減建議數額委員如果有其他提問請再補充說明"},{"start":4022.302,"end":4051.622,"text":"第二 预算提案以分支计划为并案原则并视讨论情形弹性处理并案冻结或删减以选择其中一个提案为主案的方式处理第三 主提案委员不在场的提案原则尚不予处理谢谢各位 我们现在进行审查有关外交部主管预算税入部分因为没有提案所以税入预算数照列接下来处理税出部分第一案请外交部说明"},{"start":4055.224,"end":4062.99,"text":"是 報告委員因為這個提案呢 我們之前已經送了書面報告那 呃 懇請委員能夠同意招列 謝謝"},{"start":4074.022,"end":4094.346,"text":"第一案的部分這個雖然有本席提不過汪小林委員主要提出相關的意見那因為我們在外交部的沒宣費從去年法定的預算沒宣大概是2760萬元今年增加1億多那成長的幅度非常高高達37%"},{"start":4103.59,"end":4105.472,"text":"主席跟委員"},{"start":4123.621,"end":4143.877,"text":"這個因為外交的國際宣傳真的蠻特別啦因為中共我想也是大量增加在外交上的這些宣傳的預算或者是影響力那其實這佔我們大概百分之零點"},{"start":4146.136,"end":4170.72,"text":"整個總預算裡面就是國際宣傳那我們有111個外館事實上也非常多需要去推動尤其現在其實現在的外交已經不是在國際上了已經落地到每一個國家可以說是落魄戰所以其實這個一億三是真的有實務上的需要尤其像2758決議還有相關的這些要去"},{"start":4174.821,"end":4176.488,"text":"請國際來支持我們我們現在發現比如說在非洲"},{"start":4181.863,"end":4208.874,"text":"這個53比1嘛中共的邦交國外我們只有一個其實很多國家真的不知道我們的資訊那他就是片面的接受中共的宣傳所以我是覺得應該是要有一個時間可能要重新去平衡所以這一點一多的預算尤其是我們如果看這兩年我們真的很秉持這個外交是不分黨派就是不會去"},{"start":4210.194,"end":4220.061,"text":"涉及到好像對國內的政治的有些什麼樣的不同的立場一致對外所以我是很懇請委員能夠讓我們有充裕的預算 謝謝"},{"start":4227.723,"end":4255.229,"text":"我的建议是这样子因为呢我看了这个提案说明之后那成长跟114年比起来成长377个百分点确实是增加了非常的多但是呢我也同意部长刚刚讲到的我们在这个国际上面确实有很多需要我们能够发声的地方所以我的建议是不是这一案我们能够直接保留那到这个政党协商的时候再进一步来做讨论"},{"start":4257.56,"end":4272.601,"text":"好,那如果沒有其他沒有,那我們先保留送協商接下來下一案,第二案"},{"start":4286.993,"end":4307.483,"text":"第二案的部分跟主席還有委員報告第二案的話是屬於一般行政費用那一般行政費用這邊的94億絕大部分都是屬於人事費人事費就佔了86億那這86億裡面除了是我外交部國內的人員以外還有"},{"start":4308.503,"end":4334.856,"text":"國外駐外人員那駐外人員不只是我外交部派的還有其他15個主管機關他們派的所以如果說這個部分然後增加的今年會增加的預算預算部分包括第一個是我們有跟行政院請證到30個元額然後還有配合114年的調薪那調薪的話就會涉及到所謂的年年終獎金考機晉級這些一些法定機遇"},{"start":4335.536,"end":4363.775,"text":"還有一些有關於駐外人員的一個健保費自付額公費補助的部分還有115年我們可能會調有關於駐外人員的房補費所以這邊如果委員的提案是要減7億又動10億的話可能就沒有辦法維持我們人員的一些基本的一些開銷所以建勤委員是不是這案子可以免於凍結跟減劣以上說明好 請徐柴欣委員"},{"start":4366.385,"end":4389.431,"text":"這個案子原則上是支持外交部那因為這個你剛講到有房補費是房屋補助的部分對不對那先前就是呢我跟這個包含教育文化委員會的羅廷偉委員等人到日本去考察的時候呢那我們有跟當地的我們的兩位公使那有這個中午有做一些意見的交換"},{"start":4390.231,"end":4412.391,"text":"那在地的这些公使们他们就有表示说呢那其实现在物价是有很高的调涨的这个情况那所以说呢他们的这个房屋租金补贴的部分那确实有入不敷出不够用的这个情形那我就想那日本是如此我相信有一些其他的国家可能也有同样的情形"},{"start":4412.831,"end":4427.185,"text":"所以在這個部分的這個預算增加我覺得尤其在房屋補貼的部分那確實有其必要性所以在這邊只有一個這個比較簡要的需求就是說是不是針對房屋租金補貼的部分那先前跟"},{"start":4430.948,"end":4450.296,"text":"就是我們之前跟這次那在各個國家當中那我們預計每一個國家的占比能夠提升百分之多少那我希望能夠給我這樣的一個書面數據那其他的部分我沒有意見那也希望可以把這個我們駐外的同仁都能夠照顧好他們為國家打拼非常非常的辛苦謝謝"},{"start":4452.363,"end":4477.192,"text":"好其他委員有沒有意見好針對提案委員他提出來因為我們今年增加的幅度也是非常高你多了7億7億餘萬然後這個部分雖然剛剛有提到大部分是人事費用不過人事費用大概佔了84億左右然後86億86億左右那其他的經費如果說你用在房屋"},{"start":4478.412,"end":4498.836,"text":"補貼啊或者其他的人員的部分這個還沒有辦法詳細的列出一些細項如果說對於大家的福利或者在各國之間可能必須要增加的一些支出或者在上面需要增加的補貼那個我們原則上同意可是你增加的幅度太高所以這個部分沒有辦法做詳細的這些提供的數據資料之前我們還是要凍結"},{"start":4506.38,"end":4508.001,"text":"那我們改動一億好了你們把詳細的因為你只要把那個你增加非常高嘛你如果說如果是沒有問題那你們提供詳細的資料我相信委員會也會支持那應該就增加的部分或者需要調整的部分請提供順便資料"},{"start":4532.19,"end":4553.744,"text":"是在跟我們確認一下是不是這個部分我們先凍結然後我們再一次交報告然後先去因為我們已經把簡列的部分已經沒有簡列了所以可是你增加這麼高的額度你即使要增加也不是你說都是我們所有外交統統的福利那我們看不到"},{"start":4554.324,"end":4572.296,"text":"你如果說增加的福利到底增加在哪裡那有多少元額那些元額是做什麼目的或者是他們為什麼要去增加這麼多的元額因為你說有增加30位那他們去各個哪些國家做什麼我覺得可能還是必須要交代清楚那這個部分我們凍結議議提出書面報告經同意後使得動之好謝謝"},{"start":4580.134,"end":4594.831,"text":"好 請王帝宇委員我請教外交部這一個凍結一議是有共識的結論還是沒共識的結論如果你們有同意有共識我就沒意見你們有共識的結論嗎好 可以啦我再補充一下"},{"start":4596.704,"end":4613.007,"text":"我們這個原額增加當然是真的歐洲專案因為歐洲31個館住而且我們也持續在擴展中那當然房補會或者是包括這些其實我們去過外館都知道越住越遠"},{"start":4613.988,"end":4641.417,"text":"因為物價尤其像美國其實部長剛剛我聽徐委員講有去過都知道啦你看我們住那個舊金山的住處一個月業務費才多少錢對那個根本沒辦法經營所以你們調高我們是熱見我現在只是我剛才只是一個程序上的問題就是說這凍結一役沒有影響你們的運作不會影響到駐外單位的這個活動那OK我就沒有特別意見那如果可以運作就好好"},{"start":4643.158,"end":4660.588,"text":"人事處處說可以啦 因為是書面嘛 詳細列因為確實讓委員知道越多 清楚就會越支持因為大家都在國外會遇到房土也好啦 育兒啦 什麼先前的健保這些都是有關於人事的指出 謝謝"},{"start":4662.497,"end":4679.951,"text":"那個謝謝主席那書面資料的部分呢就是因為剛才這個外交部這邊有提到就是說我們有支援其他單位的這個人力嘛對不對那像這一次我們到日本去呢就有提到說先前就是我們對於教育部在日本這邊的這個協助的名額其實跟過去是有減少就是先前啊先前有被減少過所以變成是說教育部這邊他必須要自己列"},{"start":4691.96,"end":4716.286,"text":"他們的這個等於是駐外人員的經費所以我想我們在書面資料很需要知道的是我們支援了那哪一些的這個部會那多少個人力然後他們的在地方上面的工作大概是要處於哪一方面因為像是他們有提到說先前有被減少那如果像這樣子被增加回來而以至於預算增加的話我們當然是全權能夠同意的"},{"start":4717.406,"end":4745.825,"text":"但就如同刚刚赵伟所说的因为现在这个增加的比例很高那有些我们听起来是有需要没有错可是细部的资讯那没有给我们厘清的很清楚那所以我想在这个部分冻结在书面报告的部分也包含就是在这个我们提供其他的部会的人员的呃就名额的部分员额跟工作相关内容的部分是不是也可以给我们做一个说明谢谢好没问题这个"},{"start":4747.526,"end":4767.259,"text":"地域佳績列上去大家都知道因為物價通膨不是光房子地域佳績要相對提高沒錯 謝謝陳委員這個部分的話其實今年部長是房補會房補配今年會去爭取就是我們要把它調整好那明年的話我們會針對地域佳績來針對比較艱困的地方去做增加以上說明"},{"start":4768.871,"end":4787.988,"text":"好 我們在各項的外交預算的支出的同時我們更希望我們的外交成果而且在面對雖然有困難可是我們應該要具體力爭或者應該表達我們主權尊嚴的時候還是必須要做到這些這基本的原則啦好 我們接續處理3到11案請外交部說明"},{"start":4805.769,"end":4827.26,"text":"報告主席及委員 秘書處報告第三到第十一案並案處理之前有跟相關的委員辦公室說明之後第三案獲得翁曉琳委員同意並業務費處理第四案獲黃仁委員同意列組決議第八案獲馬文君委員同意照列"},{"start":4828.801,"end":4844.379,"text":"接下來針對一般行政這個預算呢向各位委員報告說明這個向下主要是用來執行本部的辦公大樓以及天母使館專區台北賓館還有我們各級植物宿舍北投黨庫等相關的這個辦公場所的日常養護作業"},{"start":4849.324,"end":4864.91,"text":"所以都是必要的支出那麼今年比去年增編了許多預算主要是有幾個比較重大的工程及設備需要汰換更新包括我們外交部辦公大樓的屋頂防漏的修繕因為已經有超過20年沒有全盤的更新有嚴重的漏水問題再來就是有我們大禮堂及會議室的裝修也是超過20年這是接待外賓的一個重要場所"},{"start":4877.794,"end":4886.457,"text":"另外還有天母使館專用區也是超過20年需要更新它的中央空調系統再來是台北賓館的圍牆修復因為它的圍牆有傾斜的狀況我們從去年開始編列今年是第二年編列"},{"start":4892.859,"end":4915.275,"text":"那再來還有就是我們因為人員增加擴充辦公空間跟國有財產署新請增到一個辦公處所需要裝修費用所以主要增編的項目是在這幾大項那這些預算呢都是用來維護我們辦公的安全環境以及接待外賓提供一個合一的場所恳請委員支持同意照列 謝謝徐巧先委員"},{"start":4922.975,"end":4932.024,"text":"謝謝那這個主要是這樣子就是說我們去比較了一下那外交部114年跟115年那這個兩個年度裡面在這個建築養護費用包含是本部辦公廳設環境清潔等等那是從730萬然後呢同一個同一筆費用暴增到6400多萬"},{"start":4945.456,"end":4971.155,"text":"所以这个增加的幅度可以说是非常的高那我去研究了一下细项因为如果说这个像比如说接待外宾或者是说你们这个冷气有必须要调整我们当然原则上一定是支持的可是我也要说一下就是说在114年的时候比如你们在本部办公大楼里面就都有列道的修缮项目都包含说什么屋顶天花板墙壁漏水等等的"},{"start":4971.835,"end":4994.381,"text":"但是呢像这一次规划的2759万也一样是屋顶老化破损漏水的全面防水修缮案所以我想要了解的事情是说像这种修缮的部分你是去年也都有然后也编了然后也修了啊是修不好然后今年还要额外增加更多钱来修是是是什么样啊是"},{"start":4994.841,"end":4998.143,"text":"就是我不太清楚為什麼114年同樣的像這種漏水你有編了我們也予以同意了然後今年又編而且編的錢是更多所以可不可以就這個部分說明一下那我在這個凍結金額的部分當然我們是能夠調整能夠調整那能夠配合外交部讓外交部能在這個工作不受影響的情況之下持續運作那但是我覺得像是無障礙廁所這個132萬"},{"start":5024.437,"end":5046.645,"text":"在114年的时候也有编列啊就是你当时增加的370万里面也包含性别友善厕所等等的就有没有去年跟今年有重复的项目那重复的项目为什么去年弄了没弄好那要弄到今年还要继续弄还要加钱再弄我觉得这个部分要跟我们做一些解释啦呃 刘雪婷委员"},{"start":5053.564,"end":5081.622,"text":"我們第九案第十案就一起講好了這個當然嘛辦公廳設的這個硬體更新時時都要做給基層同仁一個好的環境這大家都希望的但是我覺得基本的態度總是要有嘛譬如說你剛剛提到了本部大禮堂跟會議室的裝修案那我們當然對這個很好奇嘛可是很重要接待外賓的倉所但辦公室其實有問啦就是說相關的一個細項跟經費你到底要修哪些地方現況是什麼希望提供詳細的說明的時候經過兩次的詢問到現在都沒有提供相關資料"},{"start":5082.743,"end":5105.929,"text":"那你要我們怎麼處理呢對不對我覺得問題在這個地方嘛大家提案當然是關心這個事那關心這個事就希望你在事前可以提出詳細說明啊截至目前為止都沒有詳細說明那要怎麼商量呢對不對所以我想不管是大禮堂也好或者是其他的辦公空間整修案你當然人員有扣別人這我們都知道啊但你如果資料都不提供那你是要怎樣商量所以你們趕快把時間說清楚"},{"start":5107.358,"end":5134.391,"text":"好 那其他委員外交部要補充說明嗎是 謝謝委員的詢問首先針對許委員提問的屋頂修繕的部分確實因為外交部是歷史建築所以今天做相關的重大工程的修繕都是必須要提報台北市文化局審議通過我們的修復再利用計畫就是在去年才通過的也就是說在"},{"start":5135.772,"end":5150.39,"text":"去年為什麼是零星的這個修繕主要是因為它就是這邊露但是我們有常常會有訪兵有出入所以一邊露我們就馬上用小額採購先來做修繕那今年呢因為我們的修復再利用計畫在去年已經正式或通過了"},{"start":5150.991,"end":5169.569,"text":"所以我們就今年開始啟動全盤性的整個屋頂的防漏修繕因此我們會看到也需要兩千多萬的新台幣那目前我們已經在做公告的招標作業希望預算審議通過之後就可以馬上執行因為常常遇到雨季之後是到處漏是每一層樓都會漏"},{"start":5171.371,"end":5193.551,"text":"再來就是我們提到這個廁所確實我們去年已經有完成了一個性別友善廁所的修繕那麼應行政院相關的政策的需求性別友善還有無障礙廁所我們都配合在做所以今年我們計畫再增加一處性別友善廁所所以我們會看到今年又編了一個這樣的項目"},{"start":5197.867,"end":5220.877,"text":"好徐小欣委員那這個等於說是如果我們這次通過這個你剛講漏水這兩千多萬我是不是能夠確保就是說你們真的能夠修好那明年的時候不要再弄個就是兩千多這樣出來就我的意思是說因為去年你們講到說有這個需求我們完全同意嘛"},{"start":5221.317,"end":5235.105,"text":"所以就那也同意了可是那因為各種理由那沒有弄好今年要弄那要花到將近三千元三千萬元那如果是這樣的話真的今年就要弄好啊你不要明年又出現同樣的預算啊那比如說像無障礙廁所這個好了"},{"start":5237.126,"end":5263.08,"text":"這個我本來聽了我本來沒有什麼意見的但我剛聽完就覺得不對啊那你們規劃要增加一處其實你們去年就也應該就是要把整個要規劃的就說清楚比如說你去年就可以告訴我們說我們今年要做兩處啊明年還要做一處這個就是你既然你是編年度規劃要一年度增加的話其實都可以先預先跟我們說而不是說等到隔一年之後啊預算突然又暴增然後我們看的時候會覺得這個有重複的情況嘛"},{"start":5266.022,"end":5288.159,"text":"所以在這個部分我在凍結金額部分我可以下修到100萬元的凍結那把詳細的細目跟我們說明清楚之後那在這個金同意後凍結但是我希望就是既然已經花了將近3000萬要去修漏水了那明年的話是不是能夠就是真的把它修好謝謝"},{"start":5289.64,"end":5291.281,"text":"因為剛剛還有本席第八案是統一照列可是第五案的部分因為我們這個預算主要是做一些房屋建築的一些養護修繕的費用"},{"start":5307.668,"end":5311.47,"text":"那預算金額也有8500多萬剛剛劉許廷委員也提到我們如果已經可以估出這樣的金額可是你卻提不出一些相關到底要修什麼做什麼然後你細項提不出來那表示這個預算是有一些問題的那我們希望"},{"start":5325.476,"end":5341.054,"text":"如果在这个部分还没有厘清之前还是要尽速提供相关的资料那本席提到的是第五案除了刚刚提到的那些场馆以外其实我们还有一个就是台北宾馆台北宾馆我们看到近三年"},{"start":5341.775,"end":5346.999,"text":"113年我們大概編了1900多萬這個也是百年的古蹟那114年已經上升到2775萬115年更高就2815萬可是我們看到我們像這些參觀的人數我們一直在遞減那就這個部分我們也希望還是可以稍微再去加強因為總統府光是元旦單日就已經參觀的人次就高達9400人"},{"start":5372.476,"end":5399.335,"text":"400多人可是我們看台北賓館的部分那一個這麼好的地方那我們也做最好的維修可是我們在115年到5月其實才8000人左右都不夠總統府一天的參觀人士所以這個部分還是要去強化那我們病案凍結好了我們委員有什麼意見嗎希望他們把一些相關的資訊可以提供清楚"},{"start":5400.555,"end":5427.661,"text":"好 是 謝謝委員還沒說明對 我要回覆林委員的詢問就是有關我們辦公空間的裝修費用跟委員報告我們在昨天已經有幫裝修的這些細項列出來送交委員辦公室那這邊再請委員顧慕這個部分我們都是由廠商事先先做好相關修繕項目的估價然後來作為預算的編列依據就懇請委員支持"},{"start":5430.461,"end":5454.2,"text":"但是因為這個是國有財產署剛剛才撥給外交部一撥完成的但是才剛剛一撥完成所以還沒有辦法廠商來不及把細項弄出來那另外就是報告台北賓館的部分台北賓館市的我們會徵召委員的指示持續來繼續活化利用我們國有的國定古蹟的這個開放民眾參觀"},{"start":5457.142,"end":5473.056,"text":"那我們現在目前每一年的公告在假日開放參觀的場次是16場那我們平日也開放參觀只是平日我們必須要採預約制因為平日在賓館裡面常常會有公務的宴會活動還有相關典禮的舉行"},{"start":5474.917,"end":5491.889,"text":"所以說必須要採預約制那剛剛委員所講的對在人數上呢確實持平沒有大幅的增加但是在場次上呢過去這一年相比呢我們在去年就有平日就開放申請受理團體參觀47場相較113年19場增加了將近20幾場"},{"start":5499.955,"end":5523.929,"text":"那在公务活动举办的部分呢去年呢一年度里面就有160场的公务活动在台北宾馆举行主要是接待外宾那在113年是94场所以在场次上是有一直在持续的增长我们也会遵照委员的指示持续在办理台北宾馆对外开放参观的这样的相关活动谢谢"},{"start":5524.749,"end":5547,"text":"對 因為你既然有煤靴我們有一個好的場所其實照理說國人都不知道你所謂的場次一直雖然增加可是你的人數在遞減那表示這中間也有問題到底都是哪些人去你不是每天都有公務或者接待外賓所以這個部分我們希望在預算在增加這些修繕維護的情況之下其實應該要讓它有效的去"},{"start":5551.022,"end":5575.217,"text":"利用而且讓我們的全體人民或者國外的友人其實都可以有機會去參觀最後我的建議是說那個我們台北賓館的就是單獨單獨做一個然後呢這個辦公廳設跟這個設備器材的單獨單獨凍結一個好不好因為這樣也比較能夠凸顯它因為這兩件事情是不太一樣那都是很重要的"},{"start":5575.757,"end":5584.383,"text":"那你們的凍結數是你那台北賓館也是2063嗎台北賓館是在昭緯這邊昭緯這邊是150萬嘛他是2054嘛就2054是150嘛然後我這邊的話2063冰凍一半好了冰凍一半是多少"},{"start":5602.441,"end":5630.36,"text":"因為他大概以預算出的項目來2054一般事務費嘛那就是剛剛講的不管是台北賓館的獨立的重要性嘛也就是馬少偉的提案嘛那一段就照來處理嘛那剩下其他很多人有提共同提的是2063的這一筆嘛就是各種聽色的修繕嘛那你剛剛給我一張這個大禮堂的修繕對你有工項啊有工項沒有預估金額你好歹概估一下吧今天我們在省預算耶你只有給我項目沒有給我金額然後你就說要動資這不是很奇怪嗎"},{"start":5631.764,"end":5650.135,"text":"對啊 而且都是一次一次的 這樣很奇怪啦我覺得你把資料補充完 大家不會為難你但你至少資料要補充完所以我建議是2063的建築養護費 總共是六千多萬嘛我沒有記錯的話 這六千四百五十八啦動一半啦 你把所有相關的細項金額提供啦完整的書面報告 金銅印後動資啦我建議是這樣 這樣好不好是三千嗎"},{"start":5653.653,"end":5666.686,"text":"那這樣的話我那個十一我先幫你們一下就是那個把那個就是十一案也一起列進去好不好因為他沒有在2063里但沒關係我這也可以一起列進去共同討論謝謝兵棟3000"},{"start":5673.666,"end":5682.37,"text":"是不是可以跟我們剛剛報告有一些重要的修繕工程已經開始在進行當中是不是可以懇請委員動結束"},{"start":5693.391,"end":5704.526,"text":"你既然已經有很多經費都已經開始做動資了那你怎麼會只有項目沒有金額呢這不是很奇怪嗎對不對包括我們沒有動資因為預算還沒有通過我們在做準備當中王委員一樣 一個好奇你們事情都沒有溝通嗎"},{"start":5711.414,"end":5737.391,"text":"有我沒有沒有沒有我先問他啦好就是說我們外交部歷史悠久所以國內外的場館其實那個修繕費比買新的都還貴像夏威夷那個還好有送貨在那邊弄啦不然會開機那老水老到這樣所以基本上以過去的經驗來講不管說像洛杉磯那個裝修因為COVID慢了三次"},{"start":5738.82,"end":5759.528,"text":"光那個律師費就比裝修費還貴然後呢裝修費還暴增了兩三倍嘛所以基於幫國家省錢我贊成剛才包含牛委員講我可以看清楚一點我的好奇是矽巷出來蓋孤池出來那就願意放了因為這些修山是必要的而且越慢修越貴越慢修越貴我剛才我要問的就是我從那天到現在"},{"start":5761.482,"end":5778.62,"text":"就歪斜線就是說你給他看你們到底有沒有提供相關的修工項 概算那概算因為預算沒有通過他不敢發包啦那個預估值也不會精準啦那這樣子的概算如果有提供應該OK嘛我不曉得你們的溝通發生什麼問題"},{"start":5779.381,"end":5808.49,"text":"那我是建議我是建議委員這邊我們有在凍結預算什麼要考量到行政部門的他能可不可執行我已經提醒大概第四次了我們現在審查的預算是去年底要通過的現在會計年度已經過一半了你再給他凍那跟3億是差不多現在會計年度我們三讀通過大概本會計年度已經過掉一半了他還沒有發包還沒有做所以我建議說如果劉委員剛才講的我只是要看到你細項你現在拿出來嘛"},{"start":5809.13,"end":5818.674,"text":"我們能夠不動就不動嘛我知道這個不合格嘛你現在再給你動啦你到9月份新年度的年度預算又要來了你怎麼執行"},{"start":5821.144,"end":5849.15,"text":"我們現在的預算是去年12月31號法定要通過的現在已經到6月份了還在審查那再繼續動的話等於是不用動之所以該檢列就檢列如果你無法執行該檢列就檢列否則你最後審計怎麼處理所以我會建議外交部跟我們立法院的同仁監督我贊成如果質疑只是單純的公向跟相關的概算你相關的拿出來啊你現在檯面上就要處理了你還要等於是專報嗎來不及啦我跟你講真的"},{"start":5850.765,"end":5873.458,"text":"那個其實就如同剛剛劉許廷委員講的一樣就是說大家對於這個細部的案項因為就像是王委員剛剛說的那這個現在都已經六月了嘛那如果說六月按照理狀況來說那我們是希望趕快做的話那沒有理由說今天劉委員問的時候那拿出來的這個內容幾乎都是大多是空白的嘛"},{"start":5873.638,"end":5899.042,"text":"因為你一定是你有一個大概的這個概算然後呢我們才會知道說那這些東西他合理不合理那如果說今天你你交給我們這個總表啊從第一項這個裝修工程的完然後第二項祭奠空調空調消防工程然後呢這個都是空白的要一直到裡面的建築然後一些消防審查這種才有一些些的這個單價的說明的話我這個是建築師公會才"},{"start":5903.124,"end":5918.767,"text":"這個本來就有就很容易的那我會覺得說這樣好像根本都沒有準備好要維修啊就是這個跟預算審查與否沒有關係是說那你本來就應該要有規劃而你這個規劃目前看起來是很空白的"},{"start":5919.187,"end":5937.231,"text":"那所以說我剛剛提了我對數額凍結的數額沒有意見但是我覺得這樣子提出來的東西是不是很合格的這也是確實所以說你們看一下那個數額的部分是不是如果牛委員要認為說要凍三千你是說三千嗎三千的話那我也同意他好不好那就凍三千因為其實是"},{"start":5945.543,"end":5970.386,"text":"你執行會有什麼問題 可能不是剛提到的那個趙薇我剛才講的概念我再講清楚一點年度已經過一半了行政部門如果你根本來不及消化執行該檢列檢列你懂我意思嗎 你就過一半啦你現在繼續凍結你根本無法執行這第一個第二個如果現在有時間上有價格上對基於國家利益說明講清楚那我也建議我們委員會其實已經過半年了啦"},{"start":5971.187,"end":5994.148,"text":"其實應該讓你們執行就執行你到目前為止說明是不清楚的你現在說明不清楚那你要等下次會或下次專報再來解凍那受拖延的是你們喔你們自己要想清楚主席喔我本來是提專報之後解凍啦我剛剛已經講說書面就好因為我講我只是要個清楚明白嘛"},{"start":5995.939,"end":6016.472,"text":"對不對我該講的意思是現在能溝通說明清楚我相信我們大家可以接受當然啊你現在為什麼不說明你要等到委員下一次等你送報告來咧要不然先保留嘛至少不耽誤會議進行啦你現在先保留然後下一次的時候再拿出來東西拿出來但這樣我也不用去動手要嘛保留嘛要嘛你就同意就把這事處理完嘛好不好"},{"start":6017.472,"end":6043.865,"text":"你到第二輪有一點時間再來說明也不是不行啊我一向很通情達理的沒問題我們提供書面報告給委員然後希望委員能夠同意動之好不好是因為之前有跟委員辦公室有先報告過就是因為剛剛撥過來所以委員辦公室請我們先提送項目這個修繕的項目那麼所以相關的估價我們還在持續進行當中我們得到之後立刻補送給委員辦公室"},{"start":6044.841,"end":6070.832,"text":"好啊 主席那這樣如果先保留啦我們也算很寬了啦就是說在這個跑完之前你都還有時間去補充資料嘛如果你補充了來大家金額上都還可以再商量可以更精準一些啊如果你真的來不及那我們就只好先凍結但凍結的原因只是書面報告嘛你趕快來提供我想時間上都還是充裕也不會影響到相關的進行好不好好 我就請主席採取 謝謝好 那我們第四案改組決議第八案照列"},{"start":6072.072,"end":6088.202,"text":"然後第五案的部分因為是針對台北賓館的部分凍結一百五十萬提書面報告經同意後使得凍資那另外第三第六第七第九第十十一案併案目前保留凍結三千萬好我們先保留"},{"start":6101.394,"end":6107.16,"text":"好 接下來病案處理第12到15案請外交部說明"},{"start":6112.403,"end":6134.611,"text":"那個外交部來說明這個第12案到第15案其中跟自訂出的4個案子裡面12案跟15案我們已經提交書面報告到委員辦公室了那第13案呢已經到馬文君委員向馬文君委員辦公室說明初步的答覆就是說可以接受我們的說法"},{"start":6135.511,"end":6163.169,"text":"第十四案是已經向陳俊宇委員辦公室說明了得到的回應是原則同意改組決議我首先就外交部的資電業務做如下說明資安就是國安外交部對強化資安非常的重視對於委員就資安方面提出的指教跟意見我們也非常的認真的來面對"},{"start":6165.765,"end":6193.283,"text":"那我们外交部基本上是透过几个方法来强化我们的治安的维护第一个办法就是我们强化治安设备软硬体的管控不管是外管还是国内软硬体的管控我们来加强第二个是我们落实实体隔离的政策实体隔离电脑是不联网的第三个我们实施远端监控的做法"},{"start":6193.783,"end":6209.988,"text":"在台北有個資安監控中心隨時對各個外館部內各單位的這個資訊設備的運作實施遠端監控第四個我們實施三個層次的資安集合制度由這個外館的資安官"},{"start":6210.948,"end":6230.815,"text":"做第一層區域的資安官做第二層然後外交部的資安見證團隊這個團隊包括其他相關部會的專家是做第三層的這個這個見證集合來不斷的檢視各外館的資訊是資訊安全的狀況然後排除一些資有可能的疑慮跟威脅"},{"start":6232.495,"end":6248.024,"text":"最後一點是強化了資安的教育訓練外交部對於新進的外交人員以及即將外派的人員都有進行資安方面的講習強化他們的資安意識最後我跟各位委員說明一下"},{"start":6250.203,"end":6268.191,"text":"這個115年資訊處理設備的費用增加的部分主要是用在於這個落實公文系統的零信任架構強化收發公文者身份鑑別及設備鑑別的機制第二個是統籌汰換外管的電腦設備第三個是機房軟硬體設備的汰換包括虛擬化平台軟體的授權費等等"},{"start":6280.402,"end":6293.995,"text":"再過來就是跨國骨幹網路的違願我特別跟各位委員報告的是由於記憶體跟晶片的價格今年有大幅度的上漲導致電腦採購的費用也相對的增加"},{"start":6300.096,"end":6325.989,"text":"電腦一般的使用期限規定是4年可是我們現在只能換到使用6年的電腦已經稍微顯老舊了如果這個預算沒有辦法照原來的編列通過的話會延後有些電腦的汰換作業那我也希望各位委員體察這些情形實際情形給予我們外交部強化治安措施的支持謝謝"},{"start":6331.38,"end":6355.746,"text":"其實我們外交部剛剛討論到現在我們討論的那個進度非常慢主要是因為雖然有跟委員稍微做報告可是你沒有溝通所以我們幾乎都是沒有共識沒有結果的那不像其他的委員會除非是完全沒有共識的才會保留那外交部在這個部分我們完全幾乎大部分是沒有結果的"},{"start":6356.286,"end":6360.275,"text":"所以可能在進度上會比較慢剛剛王定宇委員"},{"start":6362.142,"end":6387.353,"text":"好 謝謝主席資安的部分其實我這邊提凍結100萬那我希望看到比較完整的報告那我也先跟部長提你們這一次的府會溝通我建議要強化有些問題其實不設機敏委員詢問要清楚的就應該清楚他如果要項目如果不設機敏我應該連概算都給他"},{"start":6388.868,"end":6413.649,"text":"那委員如果還繼續擋那也許我們還可以有一些立場上的辯論但是在溝通上到這裡我們都希望不清楚盡量說清楚今天預算在這個檯面上就能夠做解決而不是等到下一次那有關這一個資安的部分我為什麼提這100萬我希望更清楚看到什麼說明呢比方說我們都知道我們有些管處某管處是租在人家大樓裡面的某幾層"},{"start":6414.83,"end":6437.042,"text":"可是他總機下面的那個總集成的線箱是華為的我講哪一國應該知道樓下是華為該國的總部那你的資安你在裡面弄的什麼資安你訊號從那個機箱出去我們會有擔憂嘛那我們要靠誰告訴我們不用擔心靠你們找來的資安的評估"},{"start":6437.842,"end":6464.307,"text":"或者在某一些管處那個是大使館街我們的訊號在那個地方我們的控制到底怎麼樣確保我們的大通電各方面不會有洩漏因為之前已經在東南亞在某些地方我們都發現有一些到底是人的問題還是治安問題我們現在搞不清楚所以我這邊著動一百萬我是希望看到如果該機密報告就機密報告更清楚的"},{"start":6465.108,"end":6484.09,"text":"說明我們各駐管處的資安作為從軟體的作為硬體這些光纖或者cable或者是無線傳輸的作為怎麼確保我們真正身處第一線作戰其實是比你們涉及的機敏資料對國家利益影響很大所以我希望看到更明確的資安報告"},{"start":6488.091,"end":6493.638,"text":"就剛剛提到的因為我們這個部分是治安的部分本期提案是第十三案那十三案的部分因為我們看到剛剛王委員有提到可能在某一個國家"},{"start":6503.55,"end":6515.386,"text":"它的系統業者是華為可是不代表每一個國家都是所以其實它會使用的大概也是部分甚至是少數那我們這一次採購的電腦大概有900台"},{"start":6518.356,"end":6523.337,"text":"900台可是你要提高破解然後你們說號稱這個第三方的樣態曝險管理機制的部分這個一套買了就要1000萬而且號稱幾百年才可以被破解那我們所有的國安國防所有相關單位大概買這一套就好了它幾乎可以非常安全而且甚至要超過百年以後才會被破解所以就這個部分像"},{"start":6546.682,"end":6554.127,"text":"我們看到這個電腦的金額一般我們桌上請大概是3到3.5萬可是我們外交部這一次採購的是6.5萬那你在台灣買電腦其實甚至比歐美還要便宜所以我們看不出來說為什麼我們要增加到1億多的這樣的一個預算的額度那還沒有說明清楚之前我們還是建議有凍結然後提供比較詳細的一個說明資料然後我們再予以解凍"},{"start":6575.964,"end":6580.088,"text":"好 那我們併案凍結三百萬 有沒有意見外交部再向委員會提出書面報告後動之我們12月13、15併案凍結三百萬提出書面報告經同意後 使得動之第十四案改組決議"},{"start":6602.399,"end":6608.221,"text":"接下來併案處理第16到18案請外交部說明那我們12 13 15我們就以第13案馬文君的提案為主案馬委員我這個趙委我這邊"},{"start":6632.998,"end":6647.335,"text":"反應先簡單剛才那個組決議這邊還是還有這個報告的部分我還是需要提醒外交部因為我們上次那個暗網的這個兜售的這個部分到底是因為"},{"start":6648.616,"end":6670.698,"text":"資安的關係還是人為的因素這個還有檢討過去包含飯店什麼下榻的一些重要官員的那些地點我們希望說如果可以的話在報告上面可以跟我們詳盡的解釋到底是人為的因素還是資訊的因素如果是人為的因素資訊的改進還是一樣會被寫出去以上"},{"start":6681.345,"end":6684.551,"text":"第16到18案請外交部說明"},{"start":6688.662,"end":6712.831,"text":"主席各位委員台美會在這一次的業務費裡面增加的蠻多的以往維持在340萬的業務費今年主要就是我們這73年的老房子需要整修一下它的上面跟外交部的主樓不一樣它還是用黑網所以我們經過估價以後大約也是200多萬那麼"},{"start":6716.192,"end":6728.769,"text":"目前就是等著預算通過之後就發包我們希望今年做了之後以後就維持在40、50萬左右的維修上面希望各位委員能夠支持謝謝"},{"start":6733.311,"end":6750.616,"text":"根據我們的房屋修算是經過出過的報價所以編列了兩百萬不過初步的一個報價畢竟還是沒有進行詳細的一個規劃設計所以精算估價本席可下修這個三減金額三十萬好減列嗎三減 減三十那其他委員陳俊宇委員"},{"start":6763.191,"end":6779.922,"text":"有要補充嗎第十八案好 謝謝趙偉根據那個我們外交部有到這個辦公室做說明那我覺得這個經費還是要這個照列所以我同意改成主決議好 那針對黃總委員簡列三十萬的部分外交部可以"},{"start":6796.915,"end":6807.302,"text":"我們發包之後相關的那個文件會送到委員辦公室那我們盡快把這個工作能夠執行謝謝委員好 可以申檢嗎對啊沒有 這個應該"},{"start":6824.092,"end":6840.94,"text":"應該要早一點說啦因為這個在跟委員溝通的時候你們大概就可以把它詳細的說明那如果沒有我們就按照委員的意見提案好那我們第18案改組決議16 17案以黃仁委員提案為主題案簡列30萬科目字條"},{"start":6854.555,"end":6859.264,"text":"好 接下來病案處理第19到21案請外交部說明"},{"start":6871.349,"end":6887.006,"text":"跟主席跟各位委員報告十九案還是中間有台美會的部分就是松鶴公司在檀香山那麼目前呢所面臨的是他已經超過了53年那這個房產呢"},{"start":6889.368,"end":6911.348,"text":"的確不符合整個它周邊環境的旁邊已經新建大樓的那個樣態那麼我們希望能夠保留它在小河邊的這些步道但是也希望主體建築能夠更新目前除了三月份我跟國會會的同事一起去跟"},{"start":6912.83,"end":6926.03,"text":"譚江山市長表示我們合作的善意之外在五月份已經派團就法規的部分跟市政府的團隊進行了初步的溝通目前排定是在七月上旬"},{"start":6927.652,"end":6947.097,"text":"美國國慶之後的那個星期由國和會的黃秘書長再去跟市長能夠談得更細緻一點那麼這個事情就會慢慢慢慢往下再推動我們希望能夠朝向一個彼此間彼此間能夠互相能夠接受的方案能夠然後完成這個改進的計畫是"},{"start":6952.917,"end":6975.023,"text":"請王恩祥委員 王恩委員是 好 這個剛剛Visa也提到就是我特別提到這個就是採用商的那個外觀的部分那個文化 華埠文化館場的部分那個在那個部分的媒體鋪路其實當地政府其實這個是講得非常不好聽的這個我覺得影響我們國際的一個形象"},{"start":6975.863,"end":6980.404,"text":"主席跟委員那接下來那個第20案跟21案其實就是涉及沒宣費的部分那剛剛就是在第1案的時候已經就是同意保留送血傷"},{"start":7006.598,"end":7009.304,"text":"好那所以這個也保留我還很想委員的提案檀香山的這個"},{"start":7020.788,"end":7048.877,"text":"松鶴要凍結嗎所以只剩下我們的那個19那好 那我就改主決議好了就我單獨一案了 好不好好 那這個檀香跟松鶴大樓一直是一個問題我去了每次都繞道附近在市中心但是我們過去都沒有積極的作為所以他們市長任期快結束所以到處投訴所以我就派團去做體檢"},{"start":7050.337,"end":7076.635,"text":"也因此說實在對於台美會我也深戒了因為這個事情不能一直那麼被動所以現在請國會來協助如果他們有更新或開發的計畫我們應該配合市政府短期內當然要去解決原來的租戶這個都是技術性問題各位跟委員報告如果有到檀香山也可以去看一下來指導一下配合他們都市計畫老區的再生"},{"start":7080.477,"end":7092.144,"text":"這可能會創造我們未來在檀香山一個很好的地標性的建物而且我們應該不用出太多預算因為這個地是我們的我們可以參與未來共同的開發謝謝好 那我們第19案改組決議20 21保留協商好 接下來弊難處理第22到33案請外交部說明"},{"start":7115.872,"end":7140.279,"text":"委員好,那在這邊有關於第22案到第23案目前的話已經向牛許廷委員、馬文君委員、徐曉新委員、黃仁委員、黃安祥委員、王逸川委員跟羅美玲委員的辦公室去說明那其中呢,目前第23案的話呢,有獲得馬委員初步同意照列那其他的提案部分呢,我們希望能夠建請委員支持,以上"},{"start":7145.287,"end":7149.703,"text":"委員有沒有要補充的好請劉許廷委員接下來羅爾美琳委員"},{"start":7151.558,"end":7178.315,"text":"好接下來徐喬欽委員好謝謝主席這一樣你們是有來說明但是你們提供的說明資料跟我們本辦希望明確分析的資料顯然有比較明確的落差因為講白了沒宣費就是這樣每一年都編然後每一年也都是預算審查的重點所以如果這個東西要能夠順利通過其實效益分析是很重要的每一年它的執行的狀況是什麼宣傳效益跟差距比對這些基本的資料總要有吧"},{"start":7178.695,"end":7196.161,"text":"就是講你今年你像講說管社修繕可能有招標等等你第一時間沒有辦法馬上提供非常詳細這都還可以理解可是沒宣費我們要的是過去的資料啊你把113年114年的執行狀況啊哪些媒體分別得了哪些標案啊這些東西把它講講清楚然後預估的效益是什麼啊然後今年的打算是什麼"},{"start":7196.681,"end":7215.349,"text":"做一個綜合性的分析比較來作為沒宣費是否大家要照列還是要作為著山等等的一些客觀的參考但是一樣啊我們要這個資料的時候你並沒有提供到這樣詳細的一個程度嘛所以我覺得依然是有溝通但沒有結果嘛那同樣這一些裡面還包含這個比如說最近"},{"start":7216.209,"end":7240.985,"text":"大家也在熱切討論的嘛就是各個部會的Logo要不要更改的問題嘛這些問題也都是大家都知道其他單位做了一個Logo的更改之後又引發了一些政治爭議嘛然後也引發了一些抨擊等等那外交部有沒有必要依然顧我堅持去執行我覺得這都是要仔細研討跟討論的所以我想啊這個相關的一些詳細資料是還沒有被"},{"start":7241.866,"end":7249.032,"text":"被充分揭露的所以我想這案子很多我們聽聽各位委員的意見然後大家共同討論這一筆費用來做處理以上接下來請羅美玲委員好 謝謝主席本席的33案外交部有來辦公室做過溝通所以這一案本席同意改為主決議"},{"start":7267.535,"end":7290.528,"text":"接下來是徐小青委員然後是王逸傳委員然後黃仁委員我建議呢就是先前我們在前面的時候這個關於沒宣費的部分呢那我們都是做保留的所以我建議在這個部分裡面我們把有關沒宣費的部分那也一起保留到後續再來統一的來處理否則的話"},{"start":7293.209,"end":7298.011,"text":"其實像有時候前面案子碰到沒選費後面案子碰到沒選費然後那也給外交部一點時間然後能夠把先前我們我們的沒選費到底用在哪邊了然後呢對我們在宣揚我們中華民國的這個國際關係上面有什麼樣取得的進展那我們能夠得到去年執行的一些成果"},{"start":7316.016,"end":7335.687,"text":"對於我們今年能夠來通過跟這樣的一個預算我覺得是有很大幫助的所以我是建議說跟沒宣費有關的部分呢我們先行保留那等我們可能外交部這邊能夠提出先前的成果那我們再進到可能比如說第二輪或政黨協商的時候我們再進行處理 謝謝好 接下來是王逸川委員"},{"start":7344.705,"end":7350.348,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我的案子第31 外交部來說明後我同意這個照列好 31案照列 然後接下來請黃仁委員"},{"start":7358.806,"end":7379.86,"text":"我針對第三十案本期對於國情文憲的一個指標觀心是一個對實質國際的社會的一個觸及力那引論反反響等成果的效益那但是外交部提出了一個曝光力觀看次數以互動情形在數位行銷中乃屬於低階的一個產出指標"},{"start":7380.64,"end":7397.506,"text":"另外外交部提到的要檢討已完成階段性任務之網站及電子報且紙本雜誌要數位的轉型預計有業務要退場所以經費應該可以下修那本席將簡列金額調整為200萬以上請問王安強會員"},{"start":7407.681,"end":7435.18,"text":"我的案子是第26案那我那時候凍結的原因是因為這個外交部的這個有關於社群媒體的部分這個其實我諮詢的時候有特別講過就是這個部長部長個人的這個社群的流量反而比較高所以我希望這個部長能夠帶動這個整個部的這個整個社群的媒體那經過外交部來跟我做一個說明那我這邊也同意改為組決議不過還是給我們一個書面報告"},{"start":7443.109,"end":7468.666,"text":"本席大概也還有24然後2728就這幾個部分28案主要是台灣日本關係協會的部分這個在今年也增加186萬可是我們看到近期大家爭議非常大的部分就是日非對於花色經濟海域的這個事情顯然我們大概在處置上面"},{"start":7472.308,"end":7476.949,"text":"這麼受到認同因為大家覺得我們沒有距離力爭也沒有強勢的捍衛我們的主權所以這個部分我們是提案簡列100那另外27案的部分是簡列500主要是這個部分也是增加預算大概今年也增加了1000萬"},{"start":7497.735,"end":7514.13,"text":"因為我們每年都在增加這主要是針對新南向的部分政府也高達52%一半以上然後我們在像看到東協多邊關係辦理我國與新南向國家雙邊交流的"},{"start":7516.711,"end":7537.902,"text":"經費其實也增加了大概688萬在各項都一直增加的情況之下可是我們看到目前我們這個除了出國考察費用啊或者一些相關的學術研究等等其實好像沒有很具體的一些成果跟作為所以這個部分我們也提案簡列500那"},{"start":7542.345,"end":7560.224,"text":"24案是檢列2000這個是因為目前我們要拍攝的影片大概是針對國際交流合作還有邦交國在台灣還有青年國際這個部分那這個到目前為止都還沒有執行是嗎"},{"start":7566.479,"end":7576.67,"text":"首先謝謝馬委員跟牛委員剛剛所提出來的關切那這些都是我們有注意到的那我想說明的是基本上呢剛剛部長在一開始的時候有提到就是說"},{"start":7577.21,"end":7595.475,"text":"我們編這些媒宣費是為了因應現在國內外複雜的國際情勢再來是我們希望能夠透過正確的媒宣讓國內外的受眾能夠接收到比較正確的資訊同時可以了解到外交部現在在推動總和外交所在做的工作它具體跟正確的這些事項是什麼"},{"start":7596.115,"end":7613.263,"text":"那這個案子是我們外交部在去年的時候新增加編列的計畫跟項目那只是說因為去年這些費用全部被刪除所以這個實際上我們去年是完全沒有執行那去年所以就完全沒有執行"},{"start":7613.823,"end":7640.981,"text":"那我們呢 沒有執行的情況下呢 針對於委員關切就是說有實際的項目或者說呢 這些規劃我們現在還沒有辦法能夠有具體的這個成果能夠提出來跟委員做說明那我們是想說是不是可以給我們一個機會就是說我們依照這個依據透明跟這個依照規定的方式呢我們來辦理這個執行這些相關計畫那後續呢 有具體成果之後也可以讓委員來監督 來考核這樣子"},{"start":7644.443,"end":7669.269,"text":"因為你們過去都沒有成果嘛那顯然其實你現在大概也到六月了你有一些其實是沒有辦法執行那你把不然你就是把一些可以減劣的數額然後把那個結果把它繳出來那我們是說是不是可以健行委員能夠減劣一百萬然後呢那麼多我們很多案他指的是兩千三百八十萬兩千三百八十萬"},{"start":7671.625,"end":7699.967,"text":"我補充一下啦因為現在這個其實台灣模式是全世界都很關注因為那個一帶一路還有數位思路有一些後遺症嘛那我們現在就是我們傳統外交會比較是去恰甚至是一些我是覺得太過自我中心啦我們現在是要去跟人家結合所以我就覺得不管是價值外交同盟外交或經濟外交那這個也是因為世界情勢的一個變化大家都對台灣很好奇"},{"start":7700.984,"end":7717.21,"text":"就很想知道台灣經驗我是覺得這個時機點如果能夠我們用整合的方式讓多元媒體的效果那是對外的這個是也是我想委員常出國也可以看到我們一些外館如果有一些這樣的一個產品"},{"start":7717.99,"end":7735.743,"text":"我們也很能夠去做分享 妥善包括有我的人士 一些國會議員所以這個確實是新增的計畫去年沒有機會實施像我擔任兩年 累積的東西也比較多所以是請委員能夠 剪列一百讓他們能夠往前來推動 謝謝"},{"start":7743.857,"end":7750.694,"text":"因為這一個部分是本市跟劉委員提的部分那劉委員有意見嗎"},{"start":7756.33,"end":7781.257,"text":"這整個現在在第二幕外交管理業務裡面的基本行政工作維持整個基本行政工作維持總預算大概是一億多一億四千多萬那沒宣費的部分是兩千三百八十萬那還有其他的你都講了那我就把一些預算比較詳細的奇怪的東西我就一併做說明比如說我剛剛有講到這個部會識別優化品牌識別優化你把它放在"},{"start":7781.937,"end":7806.463,"text":"基本行政工作維持裡面然後你的預算是三千六百八十九萬三千元然後更奇怪的是這一個你看你沒宣費兩千三百萬然後你一個不灰優化你可以編三千六百多萬這本來就很奇怪後來你仔細看細項你就發現這三千六百多萬裡面不只有不灰優化你還有國會外交協助兩工業業務執行國外文書送達行政書物那這些東西跟外交部品牌識別優化有什麼關係我覺得也蠻奇怪的啦所以我覺得"},{"start":7807.703,"end":7833.789,"text":"這不清不楚 我覺得我們恐怕還是要保留一下你再做一下詳細的說明 恐怕好一點報告委員 那個不徽的經費 我們實際上我知道 你的不徽經費其實沒有這麼多嘛那你的品牌識別優化 你就寫這一段就好嘛你其他相關的功能 你應該寫在其他的項目裡嘛這樣是不是比較清楚你把全部都包在裡面 那不是很複雜嗎啊大家要扇要動 常常數額就抓不準 對不對所以我覺得這個東西還是需要詳細說明啦那我想這個 我們跟趙委也要再商量一下"},{"start":7834.709,"end":7862.568,"text":"齁 我是建議 而且剛剛徐小青委員有講嘛這個 美全費本來就比較敏感啦我是建議大概先保留啦後面再 再商量一下再說吧 好不好我們也不用凍結或是刪除然後也給一個機會希望大家可以寫上去 對啊這樣我不用動你的啦欸 那個林慶祺委員舉手 教委教委 林慶祺委員在這裡"},{"start":7864.259,"end":7864.601,"text":"好,謝謝委員"},{"start":7867.25,"end":7895.215,"text":"好 謝謝我們召委那本席這邊在針對外交部的這個預算我是針對在這個32案那麼外交部編列了這個推動公眾外交以及辦理重要外交文宣業務那麼在多元媒宣的這個管道公共溝通業務經費這個部分那在115年編列了2380萬元那整個目的是在向國際社會傳達我們的立場要塑造國家的形象"},{"start":7895.755,"end":7916.631,"text":"然後也是要對外強化溝通但很重要的這個核心問題本席正面關心的是那麼外交部究竟要向國際社會來傳達什麼樣子的國家敘事跟主權的這個主張那麼本席認為在這個肩負不只是宣傳工作以外呢國家對外發聲也是這個部分的一個重要的責任"},{"start":7917.452,"end":7935.432,"text":"那麼涉及整個中華民國的歷史發展還有領土主權跟國際法地位等等那都應該把這個立場說清楚那麼我們長期對於開羅宣言跟波茲坦宣言以及戰後的相關國際文件都有一些既定的外交論述跟歷史的定位"},{"start":7936.033,"end":7945.118,"text":"那麼在做這個公眾外交重要文宣業務的時候呢我們應該確保內容能夠完整的來實踐跟呈現中華民國的這個一貫主張那所以本席認為我們在這個強化國際社會對我們的正確理解跟支持的時候呢不應該在歷史定位跟主權主張產生混淆所以本席認為外交部必須要向國會來說明"},{"start":7963.968,"end":7982.378,"text":"那麼目前辦理公眾外交跟外交文宣對於涉及國家主權、領土跟歷史文件議題的時候是怎麼樣的審核跟把關機制那麼第二個部分是怎麼樣來確保相關的對外文宣能夠正確反映中華民國既有的歷史脈絡跟外交立場"},{"start":7983.098,"end":8010.375,"text":"那麼第三個部分是如何在未來透過公眾外交跟國際溝通的工作來強化國際社會對我國主權立場跟國家歷史發展的正確認識所以如果外交部可以在兩個月內向立法院的這個國防外交委員會提出更完整的書面報告那把本席上面所講的那個事項還有後續的精進作為能夠說清楚的話那本席就跟大家一起"},{"start":8011.475,"end":8019.921,"text":"我想就冻结整个金额100万这是我这边提出的诉求然后持续追踪后续的办理情形以上 谢谢好 那我们就逐案宣告第22案保留"},{"start":8033.401,"end":8044.029,"text":"23案照列24、25沒宣費的部分保留26案改組決議27案檢列50027案檢列500萬科目字條28案檢列100萬科目字條29案保留30案檢列200"},{"start":8063.001,"end":8069.043,"text":"簡列兩百萬科目字條三十一案照列三十二案好 三十二案動一百萬解凍條件是提書面報告要經同意嗎好 提書面報告經同意後 使得動之然後三十三案改組決議"},{"start":8092.554,"end":8096.306,"text":"好 接下來處理第34案請外交部說明"},{"start":8109.523,"end":8123.233,"text":"我覺得就是我們沒生肺的部分到時候一個大表就把每一個拉出來的然後分別將你們到時候全部一起看比較知道怎麼處理才不會說我每個都砍每個都砍然後到時候已經"},{"start":8132.516,"end":8144.883,"text":"外交部報告第三十四案第三十四案經過向提案的黃內委員說明黃委員已經同意改成主決議外交部將遵照辦理並在兩個月內提書面報告三十四案改主決議第三十五案請外交部說明"},{"start":8158.188,"end":8165.531,"text":"35案的部分已經有跟王定宇王委員達成共識了這個部分王委員已經同意改成組決議以上說明35案改組決議現在併案處理36到48案請外交部說明"},{"start":8179.025,"end":8184.992,"text":"案子呢是有牽涉到就是說沒宣費然後還有就是台灣today的退場還有就是台灣review的退場另外還有就是說關華東南亞三個餘版的那個停刊"},{"start":8198.246,"end":8211.296,"text":"那至於就是沒宣費的部分呢剛剛涉及沒宣費的部分就是會保留送協商那另外還有一個就是說第48案那個委員已經向委員說明然後委員也同意減列10萬元那另外向委員說明一下就是說那個台灣Today它是會持續到今年年底所以它需要的經費呢並沒有減少"},{"start":8224.565,"end":8232.307,"text":"那至於呢 那個台灣review呢 它是初刊到今年的三四月號那它剩餘的經費呢 我們就是把它拿來用來支應就是那個紀錄片 造三者的全球的非營利推廣因為就是預算編列的時候呢 我們也不知道"},{"start":8249.812,"end":8257.938,"text":"我們也不知道還有這部片子然後這部片子這麼值得推廣那因為我覺得推廣的時機也不能夠等待所以我們就把那個就是台灣review的這個結語的這個經費沒有用的經費呢用來推廣這個造山者那這個效益也非常的好那至於呢關華的這個東南亞關華其實他還是留有中英文版"},{"start":8274.488,"end":8275.77,"text":"所以它核心的這個編裁它還是需要經費那因為光華呢剛好今年是創刊50週年那它這個停刊這個東南亞三語版呢我們就把這個經費用在光華今年"},{"start":8290.808,"end":8293.271,"text":"年初就是有去擴大參加這個國際書展我們希望說可以提升他的這個品牌的識別度那另外還有就是說光華他這50年來他累積的這個文字影像我們覺得非常的"},{"start":8306.847,"end":8312.31,"text":"值得向國人來宣誡所以呢我們會在國慶期間呢舉辦這個光華50週年的攝影展所以就是整個這個經費的運用情形那懇請委員支持好 剛剛劉許廷委員徐曉新委員接下來陳冠廷委員"},{"start":8332.195,"end":8354.453,"text":"謝謝主持接下來林楚英委員那在這個部分呢首先這個我們沒宣備的部分那就這個先預保留那但我現在想要問的就是說我們關於外交部停刊台灣review然後台灣today然後還有這個光華嘛的部分那他的原因是什麼然後"},{"start":8355.554,"end":8378.07,"text":"就是我们为什么要停刊跟停运那是这个我们的成效不是很好吗还是怎么样子的所以这个希望能够有一个说明但说明的也可以因为反正我们现在也是先行保留所以也可以在如果我们把握时间也可以做会后沟通只是我想要知道就是我们为什么要去把这个部分去做停刊跟停运谢谢"},{"start":8380.593,"end":8408.298,"text":"謝謝兆瑤補充說明一下這一樣啊就是你們這個科目我都還蠻有意見的就是說現在我們在討論的是製作國情資料那如果是製作國情資料你就好好製作國情資料但我們在製作國情資料裡面下面你又發現又有推動公共外交及辦理重要外交文宣業務你是文宣業務就是文宣業務你是國情資料就是國情資料所以我是建議把它寫清楚來要不然現在大家會懷疑啊你現在是外交部把美選費散在各個分支計劃裡面嗎好"},{"start":8410.058,"end":8433.795,"text":"那該嚴審就還是要嚴審嘛所以你既然都還是有這個重要文宣業務那我一樣嘛你要有文宣業務你就要有歷年的效益分析嘛那這個東西如果提不出來那當然就要先保留嘛我們一樣嘛就今天你如果有辦法在今天今天這個審查程序之前提出了完整的報告可以跟委員說明打成一個共識那他就有通過一定數額的可能性嘛當然如果沒有的話那恐怕就要進到正等協商的階段了以上好 謝謝好"},{"start":8439.27,"end":8462.71,"text":"陳冠田委員好 謝謝這個製作國情資料我看你們的這種差旅國內旅行這些增加的幅度都很大主要是做什麼樣的國情有需要到這樣子的差旅的部分嗎那有些東西有哪些國情這些東西是要給誰看的這是重點就是說你國情資料這些是要給哪一個部分看的那你現在"},{"start":8463.931,"end":8471.662,"text":"做這些人次日數路線的依據好不好這有一個給我們一點概念不然我實在是不知道為什麼會有這麼大幅度的增加楚英委員一併"},{"start":8476.977,"end":8490.102,"text":"好等一下再請外交部一併回應好了就是謝謝主席我剛剛聽到現在這是我第一次發言因為主要是我想很多的委員都在提醒就是說外交部這麼多的宣傳費用為什麼會散在各個不一樣的這個組織應該說不一樣的各司或是各個單位裡面但是我必須要提醒我知道現在在發言的是國傳司"},{"start":8500.566,"end":8504.267,"text":"那國傳司其實就是國際傳播非常重要當時國傳司是從以前的這個所謂行政院的這個所謂對外的這個所謂宣傳發言的部分後來並到外交部來因為我們組織精簡那我們都知道上一個年度我們在所有的宣傳的費用當中被刪掉了"},{"start":8519.051,"end":8548.371,"text":"那麼以至於其實國傳司所負責的國際宣傳的這一塊就完全是等於是他的組織存在但是他的大部分的工作其實就已經沒有預算來做進行那麼剛剛我特別聽到的是有關於造山者這個電影喔那我其實站在一個提醒喔我自己是非常認同就是我們絕對是要認真的監督專業的監督但是我也知道其實在外交部當中其實外交部就是台灣的"},{"start":8549.311,"end":8560.484,"text":"發言人嘛那麼他們所做的所有的工作都是對外發聲其實本來我認為就應該是在你們每一個司不論是北美司或者是國傳司歐洲司其實你們就會對外來跟不同的國家來做宣傳跟發言"},{"start":8566.491,"end":8571.392,"text":"那麼只是說現在我們回歸到這個部分像剛剛有特別提到造山者讓我覺得非常需要發言的是就在前幾天的委員會當中也有國民黨的委員直接講到說川普說我們的晶片是去偷的那麼造山者不是就是正好可以告訴全世界我們其實台灣我們是用了我們自己的努力造出了這一座護國神山那麼所以我在這裡雖然我也同意剛剛前面召委以及大家所做的"},{"start":8596.679,"end":8610.699,"text":"決定是所有的沒宣費用現在都要保留但是難道不思考一下就是有一些沒宣費用真的要一體來做保留嗎尤其是我也必須講國傳司最重要的工作不是就是對外宣傳"},{"start":8611.26,"end":8631.274,"text":"那你把他的費用砍掉了那麼坦白說啦你把他們留在這裡然後是有領薪水的公務員但是你們沒有讓他有預算去做他們該做的事情我覺得這是不太對的包括剛剛也有委員提到像光華雜誌或什麼停辦那麼這個部分是不是也是因為預算去年被砍光了那這個部分我也希望外交部講清楚"},{"start":8634.419,"end":8648.889,"text":"我等下一併了因為我的在38跟46基本上也是這個其實外交部有來跟我們做說明我想擴大宣傳增加國際的能力我想基本上我們會支持"},{"start":8649.389,"end":8673.445,"text":"不過這邊編列有一筆1500萬是做國情的主題影片我們還有一個5000萬要拍攝國家新聞是不是可以把大概兩筆的部分然後做一些說明我想預算的編列這個目的還是很重要所以我這邊本來金額上我其實沒有什麼意見就是說希望能夠把這個然後說明清楚以上"},{"start":8675.607,"end":8691.681,"text":"外交部一邊說明我先說再請我們國團司長來說其實我們現在整個外交的媒宣包括國家形象的這個部分其實在一億多其實在外交部總預算是0.25%左右"},{"start":8695.151,"end":8719.794,"text":"那外交其實是沒有沒有煙消的戰爭其實中共大量的在國際上形塑他的敘事特別是一中原則現在到全球南方很多我們都沒有邦交過他全面性的要求他們發表聲明就是說得寸進尺現在一個中國原則變成到二十七五八號決議變成非常多他們所謂的三個八十年"},{"start":8720.535,"end":8742.814,"text":"那我們是需要子彈的其實我是認為一億多真的是很不夠那我們外館有111個外館也都需要這些子彈我們一旦有了這些宣傳的東西其實透過正式的這個當然一些廣告其實大部分像這次的WHA我們是用非常多有創意然後那個常委效應"},{"start":8743.815,"end":8756.21,"text":"只要有那個產品的效應現在因為數位匯流所以待會我們市長會簡單報告為什麼台灣review或者是台灣today或者什麼東南亞好多版那這個真的是硬成紙版"},{"start":8757.436,"end":8774.335,"text":"還要發送 連發送對象都可能是20年前的所以我們怎麼樣去藉由數位科技我們是有一套希望能夠整合至於說內容的部分 剛剛講造山者或者是我們其實台灣有非常多的好的產品"},{"start":8775.635,"end":8788.238,"text":"我們也期待說透過活動透過各種的方式能夠宣傳出去總之我是覺得也許我們委員們也可以從另外一個角度其實真的讓他全額通過一億將近三四千萬全額通過展現我們拼外交不分黨派其他有涉及到因為對內政因為政黨選舉競爭我們讓大家嚴格監督"},{"start":8804.315,"end":8829.031,"text":"一億多的 但我們整個外交部的預算不到0.25%我們那麼多人士支出 結果沒有子彈就像部隊 很多人 但是我們沒有武器啦這個宣傳費就是武器 而中共是靠宣傳起家他雖然對我們軍事威脅很多 但事實上在國際上已經在壓縮我們的生存空間所以剛剛也有委員提到那個敘事我們在最大的台灣共識"},{"start":8831.152,"end":8853.119,"text":"台灣不要變成中華人民共和國一個中國原則之下的這個空間都是我們在爭取有些用中華民國走出去最好那台灣我們也是很彈性的使用中華民國台灣等等所以我是因為有當過立法委我知道這個立委的角色可是如果這一億多我們就是只有外交委員會全額通過"},{"start":8854.719,"end":8872.251,"text":"那其他部會因為沒有涉及那麼多外交那大家呢好好的看怎麼樣來處理所以我是另類的思考啦我是覺得該刪減或者是都要處理但是如果鼓勵的方式讓我們的外交官啊可以在沒有煙消的戰爭上打勝仗是不是委員能夠不但不保留能夠全額來通過那當然"},{"start":8880.877,"end":8886.185,"text":"該做寫的報告 任何要做的我們都應該來符合跟委員的說明 謝謝"},{"start":8890.271,"end":8910.872,"text":"再補充說明就是有關於那個派員採訪的旅費那這個呢有一部分是那個台灣review的那當然台灣review就是說到今年三四月就停刊了那另外還有一部分就是說我們那個社群團隊的同仁他們有時候呢就是也是需要外出去這個收集資料"},{"start":8911.272,"end":8915.576,"text":"製作這個社群的這個素材所以我們才會編列這個採訪的旅費那另外就是說委員槌尋就是Talent Day啊就是TT2停刊還有就是關華東南亞三語版那個是我們經過非常仔細的評估"},{"start":8932.27,"end":8934.772,"text":"而且他就是說效益跟我們投入的已經非常的不符比例那我們認為如果再下去的話就是浪費納稅人的錢所以我們就是很妥善的就是讓這個台灣today跟台灣review退場因為我們經過評估認為呢他也沒有轉型的可能"},{"start":8953.57,"end":8955.472,"text":"那至於關華呢我們就是讓他全部轉型到數位我們紙本也不出所以我是覺得這個是讓這個國家的這個經費跟資源在重新做最有效的運用那另外就是也是關於"},{"start":8972.153,"end":8973.855,"text":"委員槌尋就說我們有今年就是有1500萬的蠻大筆的沒宣費另外我們有新增這個5000萬當然5000萬裡面呢其中有一筆是1500萬那這個我先講這個1500萬那過去呢這個我們"},{"start":8989.355,"end":8993.998,"text":"幾乎都是委託幾乎是相同的團隊來做那種敘事型的長篇的這個紀錄片那我們從去年開始呢我們已經就是改變做法那我們也透過公開招標委託不同的團隊我們也就是說縮短那個就是說影片的那個長度然後增加語版然後在駐駐權的部分我們也有更大的彈性等於是說我們在平台的運用上"},{"start":9019.515,"end":9022.878,"text":"也更多元那我們認為這樣子效益也會更高所以這是1500萬那這是去年那今年呢所以去年的這個1500萬我們是做台歐就是雙邊關係成果的影片"},{"start":9036.391,"end":9037.652,"text":"那今年呢就是配合這個PIV太平洋島國論壇在我們的友邦帛琉舉辦那帛琉呢他們會辦這個榮邦特展所以我們會用這個主題來做今年的這個影片"},{"start":9053.767,"end":9057.548,"text":"那至於這個新增的呢我們是認為說國家形象廣告的建立它需要這個長期的投資那我們一直呢都沒有這一塊所以我們今年呢就增編了這個五千萬那其中呢一千五百萬呢是沒宣費那這個是可以在四大透過這個四大通路來播放影音也好或者是視覺的素材也好"},{"start":9080.512,"end":9083.813,"text":"那三千五百萬呢就可以在也許就是說主要的這個比如說交通的這個樞紐像是機場或者是戶外的廣告甚至之前有委員說希望在這個機上"},{"start":9096.597,"end":9111.866,"text":"飞机上也可以播那其实呢我们去年做的影片呢因为就是集成的关系我们到今年完成那我们也会在机上播所以呢我们就是让他的这个通路更多元那以上简要报告"},{"start":9118.345,"end":9135.097,"text":"我們剛剛一直提到我們有很多在事先的協調根本沒有任何的結論所以現在要即時獲得這樣的結論大概不太容易我們先補充宣告第35案改為預算照列那36案的部分這些都是沒宣"},{"start":9147.967,"end":9154.533,"text":"保留那37也是沒宣也是要保留38也是沒宣我那個38跟46是不是可以合併並動一個數字就可以38跟46對我的你的凍結數是"},{"start":9178.393,"end":9187.716,"text":"我一個原來原始的是一千多跟兩百五啊兩千五我動動一個合併打就是三十八跟四個動動五百好不好我想不這邊OK好可以嗎還是動了就是你提供提供就應該你剛說的書面報告書書書書書報告給我就好了好書面報告好"},{"start":9214.09,"end":9221.591,"text":"好 那38跟46我們選 就是王安祥這都是他的好 46案為主案 併案凍結500萬提書面報告 經同意厚實的動之那另外39案也是保留嗎"},{"start":9249.771,"end":9254.374,"text":"4041提案委員不在不予處理42這個也是保留43陳委員所以還是先保留嗎動200"},{"start":9274.326,"end":9275.267,"text":"凍結200萬提書面報告可以嗎43案改組決議那44案"},{"start":9303.7,"end":9312.604,"text":"保留四十五萬也是保留這都是嗎四十五萬"},{"start":9336.789,"end":9352.586,"text":"就是你減下來的兩個 下架的兩個把它改成照三折那你的經費全部用在那裡 剛好都一樣嗎因為你是增加 你有增加預算嘛對啊 你減下來的剛好就是那樣嗎差不多 因為你那時候為什麼不講清楚"},{"start":9360.37,"end":9378.602,"text":"我們還是你剪裂一部分的預算因為你停掉兩個那你照三折我們也不知道你到底用了多少你把它說明清楚不然就是凍結凍結部分的金額要剪裂還凍結凍的金額也凍200"},{"start":9394.908,"end":9405.773,"text":"凍結200萬題書面報告金同意後時的凍支那46是併38嘛47案許巧欣委員也是保留好48案陳委員減列10萬元科目字條好接下來併案處理50到57案請外交部說明"},{"start":9434.229,"end":9456.275,"text":"49案49案是保留嗎?也是沒宣廢啦我主要還是在針對這次的國際特供儀宣的相關的製作、刊登然後頗多分布在16個國家而且主要是在中南美洲跟亞洲的友邦國家那真正非友邦的這5個就是主要菲律賓跟泰國跟印度"},{"start":9456.875,"end":9485.213,"text":"那其實真正需要積極爭取的這些提升台灣能見度的非方向國家外交部看起來這個佈局顯得不足啦所以那這邊也希望重新來檢討啦重新檢討那這個部分我想跟同意小新委員的建議我們就是保留部長我想其實還有一些時間你們可以在休息或者在第二階段或者協商之前應該盡速的說明讓委員了解不然你大概很難"},{"start":9486.534,"end":9487.456,"text":"有不一樣的一個結果接下來我們變案處理50到57案請外交部說明"},{"start":9495.341,"end":9519.943,"text":"各位委員好秘書處報告駐外機構業務的預算主要今年我們是因應物價通膨的調漲匯率變動然後為了要落實我們國有財產的維護跟管理同時要兼顧同仁的辦公環境的安全維護我們國家的形象所以我們增編了相關的預算有幾大項首先第一大項就是駐外管處"},{"start":9520.983,"end":9536.833,"text":"辦公室以及植物宿舍的租金以及他們所在地方大樓的管理費是年年調增所以這部分我們也今年跟著物價調漲的這個比例來增編大概3%左右那另外就是管宿舍修繕"},{"start":9538.454,"end":9549.181,"text":"養護還有設備相關費用的需求那作為這個例行修繕所需要維持公務的正常運作那此外呢我們目前在住外管處有49筆是我們自己的國有財產那麼其中呢有"},{"start":9553.543,"end":9582.011,"text":"將近一半都超過30年的屋齡所以會越來越多的需要修繕以及設備的汰換跟更新因此也增編相關的預算另外還有就是因應近年來我們業務還有人員的增加許多辦公空間已經不足需要增租所衍生出來需要的隔間還有整修費用所以以上的相關預算編列都是日常"},{"start":9583.271,"end":9587.797,"text":"公務維運所必須懇請委員支持民語東山謝謝委員有沒有要補充的部分許曉鑫委員 林楚瑩委員 王安祥委員"},{"start":9606.424,"end":9627.142,"text":"好我这边是第55案的部分那针对这个冻结的金额数呢我们可以再讨论我并没有坚持不过呢在这个驻美处今年多次有爆出这个霸凌然后跟标骂驻外人员然后的相关新闻匿名爆料等等"},{"start":9627.862,"end":9653.793,"text":"那外交部经过调查之后是认为说跟这个网路的传言是有落差的那呢也没有接到任何同仁透过管道的相关申诉那我希望就是说我们是不是这整体的这个申诉的这个可以重新再去检视一下因为这个不是今年而已其实从去年开始就一直有相关的问题传出来哦"},{"start":9654.213,"end":9682.654,"text":"但是传出来之后最后都是不了了之那我们也不希望等到如果真的有发生比较令人遗憾的事件的时候我们才回头过来去看这个事情所以说针对我们可能也不需要这么针对性就不是说针对驻美处而是针对就是在外交部的驻外人员有可能如果有受到霸凌的情况的时候的相关调查的一个原则"},{"start":9683.334,"end":9710.868,"text":"那还有这个近年来申诉的次数以及他最后申诉完的结果被如何认定那希望这个部分呢可以提供我们做书面的说明那大概我的意思是这样子谢谢我这部分我不好意思我可以这边就是冻结我看一下冻结冻结50万元好不好"},{"start":9712.532,"end":9720.438,"text":"那我們就改組決定就好了我是說不好意思這個360萬的部分那我這邊就凍結10萬好不好就加減一下"},{"start":9739.389,"end":9744.391,"text":"因為我本來寫36萬10%那我這邊凍結了10萬元等你們給我書面報告好嗎這樣應該不影響吧好可以好主席不好意思我這邊再補充一下委員"},{"start":9756.261,"end":9760.622,"text":"我們講完再一併說明好了接下來請林圖英委員好 謝謝主席我知道這個主要是駐外機構的業務費然後我們知道就是現在國際的這個費用上面都是不斷上漲的那麼首先我要講的是我的這個案子比較重要的是我關注的是外交人員利用職務對女性下屬性騷擾行為而且我想這個情節我就不再贅述但是這個確實是傷害到了"},{"start":9783.387,"end":9789.053,"text":"我們外交的人員本身就是的形象因為畢竟外交是代表國家的門面啦那這種所謂的職場的性騷擾或是並且平權的要求我想這個是蠻重要的不過因為外交部給我的報告當中已經"},{"start":9799.522,"end":9804.988,"text":"特別的提到就是這個案子發生在105年那麼被害人是113年才向外交部來陳述但是已經過了這個所謂的行政懲罰的時效不過外交部還是有主動介入調查而且呢有設立了未來這個相關的就是性騷擾防治申訴及調查處理的要點"},{"start":9820.362,"end":9842.694,"text":"所以在這個部分本席可以同意把我的凍結案改成主決議但是我還是希望就是在這個部分因為外館有的時候真的是在外面那麼館長可能他就會決定處理了所有的事情那麼這個部分我還是希望外交部在這裡還是能夠來注意這個事件的發生那未來也不要再有同樣的類似的情況發生 謝謝"},{"start":9846.581,"end":9870.708,"text":"安祥委員好我的案子是57案那我那時候寫的那個理由基本上就是因為那個美伊戰爭的時候其實那時候我們有一些國民在撤離的時候會這個有一些這個徬徨那外部也來跟我做一些說明我想基本上這個希望外交部能夠對於這個國際形勢的掌握洞察跟一些這個"},{"start":9872.708,"end":9883.414,"text":"類似這樣狀況的時候怎麼樣協助國民來做一些撤離的動作那經過說明之後我同意改為主決議不過還是請外部給我們一些書面報告以上"},{"start":9890.57,"end":9901.254,"text":"本席是50案因為剛剛我們一直提到說我們外管或者好像有很多的費用其實因為通膨的關係所以一直在增加可是我們也看到我們113年是少一個駐外單位114年卻比113年多出3億的預算"},{"start":9910.978,"end":9914.262,"text":"那115年又比114年又多出3億的預算所以其實我們在這個過程當中雖然它的通膨也好或者很多世界各國很多的費用都不斷的在增加可是相對的我們過去到現在我們的邦交國也在減少可是我們的外交預算並沒有減少"},{"start":9933.76,"end":9937.343,"text":"所以我們希望在做這些相關資用或者編列相關的預算的時候應該要橫貧的就是比較均衡的去做這些考量那這個部分我們還是希望可以"},{"start":9948.086,"end":9950.869,"text":"這個部分因為像剛剛有提到駐美代表處其實之前也發生過受到質疑的部分不管是在他的經費的預算的運用他是不是有浪費啊或者對下屬是不是有"},{"start":9965.743,"end":9989.334,"text":"霸凌的情形顯然我們都說沒有所以這樣子到底他詳細的狀況是怎麼樣我們還是要比較具體的一些相關的一個報告跟說明不能只有增加費用可是在管理上面或者在預算的資用上面只拿這個理由來談這個部分本席在50案凍結250萬提書面報告均同意厚實的動之"},{"start":9999.045,"end":10016.563,"text":"好陳委員52案52案因為外交部跟我們做溝通我們同意改組決議好52案改組決議那其他委員還有要補充的嗎好如果沒有那我們在"},{"start":10018.809,"end":10031.957,"text":"宣告第50案凍結250萬提書面報告金同意後 審得動之51案提案委員不在不予處理52案改組決議53案改組決議54案54案併案凍結好了跟50案併案凍結"},{"start":10045.543,"end":10073.781,"text":"以五十案為主題案 主要題案五十 現在五十五案好 五十五案凍結十萬提書面報告經同意厚實的動之 五十六案改組決議五十七案也改組決議好現在處理第五十八案 請外交部說明"},{"start":10099.726,"end":10109.781,"text":"沒話說去"},{"start":10114.681,"end":10133.032,"text":"主席 委員 以及部長 以及各位長官文化部在這邊說明有關這一幕凍結的市住外文化中心的基本行政工作維持業務費的一般事務費總共332萬9千元那這一項費用主要是指引我們"},{"start":10134.212,"end":10146.317,"text":"在非統籌的光華新文化中心的一般事務費也就是他我們駐外駐點的一般的行政的營運所需那包含駐外人員的內外戶調的所需要的一般的行政費用那懇請委員能夠支持免於凍結以便我們的駐外人員能夠在年度的一個內外戶調的"},{"start":10161.943,"end":10166.327,"text":"這樣的一個行政的運用的經費能夠正常的運作謝謝"},{"start":10171.904,"end":10195.032,"text":"林倩琦委員謝謝我們主席馬昭瑋跟我們府會的同仁那本席這邊關注這一個案最主要是外交部在推動住外文化交流跟文化推廣工作的實際內容那也因為現在我們國際處境的困難所以文化經常都是我們在整個外交事務裡面很重要的實踐"},{"start":10196.132,"end":10206.222,"text":"但很重要的就是說我們作為南島語族的發源地原住民文化是我們很多多元文化場域很多重要的組成我們跟太平洋的各族群之間的歷史連結也很深"},{"start":10211.207,"end":10238.741,"text":"那麼在這個案本席最主要是在要求那個外交部在從事南島文化推廣工作的駐外人員對於這個文化的知能及正確的南島文化的知識應該要更深沉那不是只有將南島文化留於瞻眼性質跟原住民族的呈現那沒有文化脈絡跟歷史記憶和族群發展的這個議題所以我們希望未來能夠更積極促進我們在原住民族的各個階層"},{"start":10241.323,"end":10268.905,"text":"跟太平洋友邦的交流合作要再更深度一點另外因為整個南島文化跟台灣的一個環境現狀在海洋文化的部分應該是我們在世界版圖當中定位的發展當中要做一個很核心的定位所以我們整個國家戰略包括原住民族遷徙的歷史航海文化等等還有海洋文明的交流都具有一些獨特性"},{"start":10270.126,"end":10288.974,"text":"那外交部在未來推動文化外交的時候除了太平洋地區以外也應該積極尋求跟其他海洋文明地區來建立文化連結那其中呢本席這邊認為那個法國南部地區長期都在跟地中海文化圈有做一個互動的非常密切"},{"start":10290.034,"end":10310.385,"text":"那所以本席這邊也對於這個所謂的文化中心跟海洋文化的推動南島語族的這個推動有一些期待那也希望未來能夠實質的更深入的做推動所以本席就外交部希望你們就下列事項提出書面的一個說明那第一個部分是"},{"start":10311.045,"end":10331.403,"text":"未來如何來強化住外人員的南島知能培訓跟甚至考量南島族群這個血脈基因同源的原住民族來住外做連結南島文化的這個事務那第二個部分是你們如何來促進我們原住民族各年齡階層跟南島族群實質交流的這個合作而不是只有文化展演"},{"start":10336.767,"end":10360.203,"text":"那第三個部分是如何將台灣的海洋文化納入我們文化外交裡面重要的推動方向那最後呢就是在法國南部來設置海洋文化中心的一個評估或其他海洋文化推動據點那這個可行性的評估跟推動的期程那這個部分如果外交部可以就上述的事項來做研議那麼本席這邊可以來調整為主決議"},{"start":10362.705,"end":10385.756,"text":"那這個主決議的這個部分我想先請那個外交部這邊是不是先做個回應然後在主決議的部分本席這邊有一些修整所以是不是還是本席就直接談那外交部你們是不是可以針對本席剛才所講的那幾個點做書面的一個回應跟期程的執行好 謝謝是不是我簡單好 請部長"},{"start":10388.961,"end":10407.648,"text":"確實因為台灣也是海洋國家然後跟不管是太平洋或者是其他的地區原住民外交或者是文化外交其實總和外交很重要一部分所以今年的PIV太平洋島國論壇在帛琉辦我們就是以這個我想包括原住民外交跟文化的一個結合"},{"start":10409.308,"end":10425.525,"text":"確實包括在法國因為最近來了好幾次他們國會議員也都提到他們的屬地那法國也有印太戰略所以我們現在跟他對接這不是只有太平洋事實上在整個地中海還有法屬的地方他們當然在太平洋也有"},{"start":10426.105,"end":10451.996,"text":"他們法語的屬地因為世界上世上有四億人口是講法語的所以這個是很大的一個族群那拉美也是因為我們在加勒比海其實我們的七個邦交國在拉美裡面有六個是在中美洲跟加勒比海所以這一塊我們現在透過所謂共榮學院我們過去是獎學金邀請來學生我們希望說用巡迴的方式把我們的師資跟他們各種的交流可以在地"},{"start":10452.716,"end":10474.742,"text":"能夠就地來做更深入的一個交流所以在不管是政策上的總和外交或者是在實際上我們的榮邦計畫那是把這個文化社會經濟都列入到一個我們認為台灣現在是要走向世界除了我們傳統的外交以外這一些都是非常好的主題"},{"start":10475.458,"end":10502.904,"text":"那像加拿大、澳大利亞、紐西蘭他們這些國家都很重視他們的原住民族而且有經濟社會權利已經不完全只是傳統的那樣的一個文化的一個層面所以我們這個部分會作為重點來做推動那謝謝委員的指導那我也請我們的同仁再去跟委員做請益可以把您整體的一個希望推動的東西也可以跟我們外交部業務來加以更緊密的結合 謝謝"},{"start":10504.705,"end":10527.137,"text":"謝謝部長這邊的這個回應那如果您能夠針對本席那幾點這邊未來在書面上還有跟我們口頭的溝通上能夠做一個有共識的這個推動包括期程那本席這邊是可以把這個部分改成這一案改成主決議但是在你們提供的這個內容的部分本席這邊加注了幾點也就是希望"},{"start":10527.777,"end":10552.754,"text":"外交部跟文化部能夠持續精進駐外文化機構人員的相關資能最重要的要考量派具有南島共通性的原住民族駐點來推動有利台灣與南島國家之連結海洋文化是台灣的文化中心要考量跟世界各地海洋國家駐點之設立並派駐海洋文化相關推動的一些專案人員"},{"start":10557.857,"end":10561.619,"text":"所以外交部這邊應該可以處理這一點嗎好 謝謝好 謝謝謝謝 五十八案改組決議那我們現在處理五十八案以後因為第三幕駐外機構業務預算已經處理完畢駐外相關業務機關的列席官員可以先行離席"},{"start":10584.502,"end":10589.227,"text":"接下來弊難處理59到62案請外交部說明是主席各位委員大家好外交部國主司針對59案到61案做說明那這三個案子我們都已經向提案的這個馬委員及黃委員辦公室做了說明"},{"start":10607.785,"end":10631.658,"text":"那其中在61案的部分黃委員這邊同意改一組決議方式辦理以上先做報告那另外在59案的部分做一個簡單的一個報告那我想就是說這個我們在推動國際參與受到最大的阻礙就是來自於中國而中國在國際組織打壓我們的這個參與主要的目的就是消滅中華民國存在的事實跟主權地位所以這也是為什麼外交部"},{"start":10632.378,"end":10649.108,"text":"一直致力于推动国际参与希望扩大国际支持以及进一步的巩固及强化国际上认定中华民国存在事实跟主权地位在这个项目底下我们致用的部分"},{"start":10649.668,"end":10670.595,"text":"那包含就说除了我们推动目前的这个相关的案子以外那另外呢我们也呃实际上我们现在参与了76个政府间国际组织那包含有会员或观察员会以其他身份所以这个部分的费用啊除了推完以外也支持包括就说外交部及相关部会有去相参加相关的国际组织会议哦"},{"start":10671.075,"end":10688.166,"text":"进一步凸显我们对于国际上的一个贡献那争取进一步强化的支持那希望把这个支持能够跨到到其他的案件此外除了传统的推案以外我们也不断的以创新的方式跟进一步用创新的思维来彰显这个中华民国"},{"start":10688.806,"end":10705.369,"text":"这个对于国际社会是一个这个良善的力量那正如部长刚刚提到的在今年五月的WHA那我们举办了首次的健康产业展那获得了相当好的一个回响那在两天之内吸引了1300多个人次来参观"},{"start":10705.889,"end":10725.22,"text":"那也促成了就是说在现场促成了65万美金的一个商业效益那后续还有一百多万潜在的商业效益所以我们认为就是说这笔费用对于我们在未来推动国际参与尤其是强化反制中国滥用这个联大第二期五八号决议"},{"start":10725.82,"end":10745.149,"text":"来扭曲以及抹灭中华民国的主权地位是不可或缺的我们也会不断的使用金费来做研讨会或者其他的创新方式来进一步提升中华民国在国际上的能见度所以希望委员能够同意民意冻结59案"},{"start":10746.429,"end":10770.376,"text":"另外在六十案的部分国主私人经费主要是用于在参与政府间国际组织我们并没有补助任何的国际NGO或参与任何的国际NGO会议但是未来如果我们有相关的一个资用的话我们会遵照委员的指示来进行相关制度的一个建构确保相关经费的资用是公开透明以上报告"},{"start":10777.616,"end":10799.634,"text":"對 針對這個第60案的一個就是提案的目的是要了解國際NGO的一個選擇標準還有參加哪一些國家的NGO的會議但依然沒有看到零選標準所以感覺到NGO是自己去向聯合國申請後外交部在搭便車邊旅費跟著去所以建議維持凍結200萬"},{"start":10804.585,"end":10816.576,"text":"好 那本席是59案還有62案翁曉琳委員跟本席提案的部分那59案針對我們現在這個國際會議還有交流還有參與國際組織活動相關編列的預算我們今年編列了4億8千多萬"},{"start":10826.545,"end":10830.666,"text":"比去年增加一億一千三百多萬其實我們一直在增加可是我們看到我們執行的成果大概都是剛剛口頭報告的也是就是出席會議的場次有多少發佈的貼文數有多少曝光的次數然後還有舉辦活動的場次還有參加的人次等等"},{"start":10849.531,"end":10851.373,"text":"這些量化數據去呈現可是我們每年在增加這些預算的當下我們要的是實際的參與還有它的有效的成果像過去不管是APEC還有CPTPP還有包括WHA UNICAO等等這些"},{"start":10868.947,"end":10874.371,"text":"相關的國際會議跟組織我們甚至越來越緊縮連參與都沒有辦法參與如果光是剛剛講的那些量化的數據那個不需要這麼高的預算尤其在副總談判代表之前他提到我們CPTPP甚至我們是用消極的態度在面對而且沒有積極的參與的情況之下我們也看到這一次說明的資料裡面可能在聯合國的部分"},{"start":10898.465,"end":10904.79,"text":"針對2758決議案的部分我們有相關的預算編列另外還有經濟外交醫療的部分也有然後還有要買200支手機還有含旅費設備等這個也編了2000萬然後經濟外交醫療1000萬聯合國2758決議案這個600萬另外還有一個防災會議還有學術交流的這個部分編了5000萬我想要知道這個"},{"start":10927.185,"end":10930.528,"text":"防災會議學術交流是什麼東西要編到五千萬而且參與什麼樣的國際交流跟參與什麼樣的國際組織因為你今年光是預算這個部分就增加了一億千多啊可是我們在過去以來沒有看到具體的成果還有怎麼有效的參與"},{"start":10949.322,"end":10952.644,"text":"這些才是應該要提供給委員會或者提供給國人知道的部分所以就這些如果還沒有辦法說明清楚而且像這個這個有要補充說明嗎你所謂的房災會議跟學術交流編了五千萬的部分"},{"start":10968.405,"end":10986.11,"text":"是,謝謝主席那國主司補充說明有關於這個五千案的防災是我們在下半年要在國內成立一個跨國性的一個多邊機制那這個多邊機制除了舉辦這個國際會議還有相關的訓練活動以外那另外也包含就是說在國內去營運這麼一個多邊機制的一個秘書處"},{"start":10988.431,"end":11004.033,"text":"所以这个部分是我们在下半年要达成的目标而这个多边机制会是一个永久性的多边机制那我们希望就是说在目前为止我们已经恰到了一些成果那我们希望透过这个不断的这个实施跟这个内政部还有消防署来合作希望进一步的来扩大"},{"start":11004.934,"end":11031.941,"text":"这个多边机制未来在国际上的一个知名度跟能见度这个是第一点然后第二点就是有关您提到量化这个部分那实际上就是说的确我们在国际参与上面是遭遇到很多困难但是我们也看到了就是说在过去这几年不断努力之下我们的国际支持是获得的广布跟提升的那尤其是在今年的WHO美国虽然退出了66个国际组织但是我们今年在WHO上面国际支持并没有因为美国的"},{"start":11032.841,"end":11060.176,"text":"退出而稍減那基本上數目我們是維持住了還有略為增加那我們相信就是說我們在持續的不斷推斷跟遊說的整個過程之下那在這個部分我們會有進一步的提升那不只是數字的部分我想是在支持我們的力道跟方式的部分都會跟過去有所不同當然這個需要時間但是我們這個需要相關的經費來做相關的努力所以肯金委員能夠支持是 我跟委員補充"},{"start":11061.236,"end":11075.148,"text":"這個所謂的國際災防聯盟是一個國際組織未來總部會設台灣目前已經有十幾個國家正式的會員然後也有觀察員也有參與的"},{"start":11078.571,"end":11104.908,"text":"因為美國的那個GCTF全球合作訓練架構是今年第11年那它訓練出來其實這個網絡我們怎麼樣把它建置在台灣因為它是美國國會編預算 那是GCTF那我們如果有一個這樣的國際組織總部設台灣邦交國會邦交國 甚至像菲律賓 越南北極 斯里蘭卡 其實在防救災"},{"start":11106.189,"end":11125.642,"text":"因為台灣比如在南投的竹山有一個百公頃的訓練中心這個都是台灣最好的資產那我們也跟美方比如說跟亞太駐親也有談他們覺得說印太的訓練中心如果放在台灣那很好那我們跟日本包括從石破茂總理到高市早苗這個首相也對於災防"},{"start":11127.443,"end":11150.756,"text":"他們要成為災防廳所以我們用國際組織的方式在政府能夠形成一個架構性的東西所以今年在全國的防災日我們會有一個大型的國際會議也會把這個倡議跟正式共同發起的國家都會一起出現所以這個是比較特別是我們過去都是想去參加人家的國際組織我們是覺得台灣也有能力我們作為國際組織創立的總部設在台灣"},{"start":11156.219,"end":11174.089,"text":"所以這個現在的這個所謂的防救災事實上也是一種外交最好的一個題材因為其實災害之下是沒有國界的然後那些像消防署還有相關的這些單位其實也都是很重要的我們這裡面的成員以上跟委員補充這是比較創新的做法那應該另外時間再詳細把資料我想我們國主事應該要跟外交國防委員會提早邀請大家能夠共同來參與"},{"start":11184.634,"end":11206.968,"text":"催生這樣的一個新的國際組織謝謝我們要催生這個國際組織首先我們今年已經過了一半以上了所以而且你是一個創新的一個做法所以現在顯然都還沒有人來那這個預算其實大概編列的也太多了那未來要怎麼去運作這個是另外一個一回事剛剛部長也提到"},{"start":11209.989,"end":11217.593,"text":"應該要跟委員會的委員其實應該要說明清楚可是這應該是在審查預算之前就應該要說明清楚的所以我們第一我們不知道國際的防災會議為什麼是由外交部去做防災會議其實是內政部相關的跟這些如果國際組織是另外可是我們"},{"start":11230.578,"end":11234.519,"text":"我們編列的預算他還不是國際組織你現在我們過去都是參與吧你現在的預算裡面他沒有清楚的列出這一些然後你只是要防災會議跟學術交流事實上他也不需要用到這麼高的經費我們認為其實他應該在他的可行性怎麼運作應該要先讓大家知道然後"},{"start":11254.306,"end":11265.59,"text":"我們到底要邀哪些國家我們有什麼樣的防災的內容或者救災的方向內容因為台灣防救災經驗老實說其實是很多我們不管在哪一方面的防救災可是事實上包括周邊國家他們有重大的緊急災害發生的時候甚至有時候我們也去不了"},{"start":11277.674,"end":11281.959,"text":"有些國家也沒有同意我們去參與救災的部分所以我們為什麼要花這樣子的經費然後去成立這樣的一個國際組織未來是由台灣主導它的可行性怎麼樣它可以做到什麼樣的程度對象是誰我覺得還是必須要說明清楚那另外因為今年多了一億一千多萬"},{"start":11299.697,"end":11320.682,"text":"那現在也過了大概超過一半以上的時間所以這個部分我們還是要求要簡略那你如果有好的一個規劃跟清楚的說明那到時候是不是大家應該要怎麼樣的去支持相關的預算所以就這個部分本來翁小林委員提3.1億動1億"},{"start":11328.216,"end":11342.622,"text":"這邊亞太司提出補充說明第一我們亞太司已經跟委員送出說明報告最主要是今年我們外交部要辦理太平洋島國論壇的對話這個活動是整個太平洋歷年深大的一個會議"},{"start":11343.522,"end":11357.618,"text":"那會有18個會員國還有相當多的那個對話夥伴跟那個發展夥伴那我們外交部我們本部呢是以發展夥伴的身份來出席這個會議那會有很包括我們的高階的長官還有我們的成員都會出席"},{"start":11358.208,"end":11386.538,"text":"那另外除了這個重大會議以外呢還有南海論壇東協跟周邊的會議還有GCTF的相關會議另外115年呢我們還有在國際會議跟交流相較還有協助各種國際交流活動主要是用在本部或為請國內外智庫或團體推動我跟亞太區間的進行政治安全經濟跟教育方面的研究活動那這些經費都有逐項編列在裡面請委員參考那另外呢今年我們也特別致應了敦睦眷隊"},{"start":11387.958,"end":11412.497,"text":"我們幾個友邦的這個活動那經費事實上是相當的龐大所以呢我們請建議那個委員在這個方面的是不是可以給建議改為主決議免於簡略或凍結謝謝請王帝宇委員好謝謝主席哈這個剛才我聽到包含國民黨的委員都支持南島語系這邊要多發展嗎"},{"start":11415.014,"end":11434.357,"text":"那現在 砍一億 凍一億是在這個鄉下嘛我不懂這個邏輯耶第二個 南太對台灣來講是美國 澳洲 台灣 日本外交的重中之重現在副總統蕭美琴還在帛琉中國請全力 撒大幣 砸在這裡"},{"start":11435.538,"end":11451.596,"text":"那在這麼重要的地方我很難理解翁小林委員砍一億 動一億然後我們外交部其實就是政府國際的發言人任何國家外交部就是我們國家在國際上的發言人沒宣費一億三砍一億"},{"start":11453.377,"end":11475.388,"text":"對外要講話的嘴巴捂起來南泰的外交重鎮然後不管你用南島語系的文化用地緣政治用外交來看都是一個重鎮我很難理解翁小林委員刀子動的怎麼跟跟對岸動的地方都一模一樣這個我很難理解非常難理解我建議外交其實沒有黨派之分過去不管誰執政"},{"start":11477.189,"end":11494.775,"text":"這樣的預算其實都是重中之重其他侏儒房設施物費那個是如實核銷的那個也無從灌水起所以我我真的希望我們在場的同仁們在有關我們住外的一些部署如果有"},{"start":11496.158,"end":11515.576,"text":"難以理解的外交部要說明清楚我贊成這個態度妥適的監督但是動輒把我們對外沒宣費一億三砍掉一億然後南泰的費用動一億減一億我不曉得我們在傳遞什麼樣的訊息這個建議三思還有沒有其他委員要補充"},{"start":11518.451,"end":11532.084,"text":"這個部分因為剛剛應該有提的很清楚你是編了4億多比去年多了1億多的預算出來所以即使在哪一個部分你要強化比如說南泰可是事實上我們在所有的國際組織跟國際參與上面我們一事無成"},{"start":11537.389,"end":11547.751,"text":"所以如果就這個部分我們預算不但沒有減而且我們是增加如果就這個部分大家不用把它解釋的太遠今天我們一方面提到剛剛我們的年度已經過了一半以上可是你在這麼多的預算底下包括你剛剛我們提到的那幾個部分你有很多的部分其實都已經沒有辦法完全執行"},{"start":11564.614,"end":11584.5,"text":"所以就這些部分他是從總經費上面去做刪減那刪減數有必要的時候你們應該要具體的去跟委員做這樣的相關的協調嘛那你如果沒有辦法做到那這個部分我們就先暫時保留那可是59案的59案的部分凍結300萬提出面報告金同意後時的凍支"},{"start":11595.424,"end":11597.625,"text":"那60 黃委員動200嘛好 動結200萬提書面報告 經同意後使得動之那61案改組決議 62案保留"},{"start":11617.745,"end":11646.132,"text":"接下来病难处再补充一点不要紧保留因为今年PIV我想去年大家都知道几乎是中共是阻止了我们去参加包括美国日本跟澳洲那今年当然在帛琉因为它有个三巨头它每一年都是前面办个今年办跟明年办的主办国所以明年是在纽西兰所以我们把重兵放在今天的帛琉就是在做龙帮计划包括这个PIV里面的展"},{"start":11647.092,"end":11667.394,"text":"我們不只台灣把美國、日本、澳洲在太平洋做的事情其實我們用一個這樣展的方式就像我們今年在WHA其實要有一些政策要有一些可能甚至跟產業有關的結合所以事實上已經在執行了PIV因為八月底、九月初就要判所以事實上一些案子已經在進行中"},{"start":11670.151,"end":11687.922,"text":"我特別為我們國主持講個話我們當然要拓展國際組織是很辛苦可是在APEC從那個秘魯開始到韓國到今年的這個在中國舉行的時候其實我們都爭回了過去被矮化"},{"start":11688.602,"end":11706.416,"text":"那現在他也透過APEC的機制要跟我們對等的處理因為事實上他是共識者我們過去都不敢用那從前年開始他不支持我們我們為什麼要支持他主辦或他的這個什麼領袖宣言所以我們是現在是也是有自己堅持的一面所以要應該是說"},{"start":11708.437,"end":11727.474,"text":"雖然我們的邦交國沒有辦法馬上增加但是我們是守住12國事實上拓邦有一些國家即使還沒邦交國其實是在理念相近或者一些戰略上意義是很大的這個是包括菲律賓像波蘭還有在拉美的一些國家所以是不是這個國際組織的預算能夠就是請委員會"},{"start":11733.8,"end":11744.989,"text":"全力來支持那因為想做事啊所以有增加了一些項目那應該要妥善說明那書面有一些已經有地了那我再請同仁啊加強競速應該要讓委員參與一起來推動 謝謝好 謝謝部長的說明那接下來我們病案處理63到66案"},{"start":11763.088,"end":11763.86,"text":"請外交部說明"},{"start":11773.737,"end":11777.26,"text":"主席各位委員那個六十三案那個涉及國際傳播室這個部分主要就是有高層出訪的經費還有另外一位另外一個是沒宣費那高層出訪的經費呢因為就是配合高層出訪我們需要設立就是在到訪的國家設立新聞中心"},{"start":11795.336,"end":11797.659,"text":"然後提供給國內的這些媒體記者就是一些網路通訊設備那這些呢經費是非常必需而且經費也通常就是都還蠻高昂的那所以呢"},{"start":11810.293,"end":11810.994,"text":"我們是透過那個在地具有影響力的自媒體人士也就是俗稱的網紅"},{"start":11827.808,"end":11835.333,"text":"那用他們的當地的語言然後向他們就是說信賴他們的粉絲然後從在地的視角來呈現行銷台灣所以這個案子的效益非常的好然後也非常的有說說服力那也是大概有編列800萬那用比較小的經費可以達到蠻高的效益那這一部分呢特別懇請委員能夠支持教練謝謝"},{"start":11860.062,"end":11885.089,"text":"王帝宇委員其實我提的是凍結100萬以年度已經過一半來講這個不傷經也不凍股所以100萬你書面報告來可以凍資或者你們認為在這個會計年度已經過了一半你們的處理上會困難你甚至以改檢列我都可以接受就是說我凍結的意思是說我不凍你的預算但想了解你們這個相關的內容好不好"},{"start":11894.59,"end":11900.454,"text":"因為我的案子在106案,這個也是民主基金會的案子跟王定宇的相關可不可以拉來這裡一起討論"},{"start":11920.544,"end":11924.052,"text":"因為那個科目不一樣所以我們到時候再討論好了好 林倩琪委員"},{"start":11928.96,"end":11957.022,"text":"我是64案所以我这边也先做一个说明刚才外交部可能没有针对这个部分做一些回应但我把我提这案最主要的一个目的跟希望的结果这边来陈述一下那这个案在我检视预算之后发现在亚东太平洋地区比较明确能够列出来的内容主要是在补助台日交流的相关会议及活动"},{"start":11957.702,"end":11986.097,"text":"但是台灣是南島語族重要的發源地那麼在整個台灣原住民跟天然的歷史南島的天然歷史文化族群的連結這個整個在這個部分的預算其實沒有一個整體性的規劃例如說來協助國內的原住民族相關團體或者是學術機構青年組織跟文化團體跟其他南太平洋太平洋地區其他南島語族來建立穩定的合作網路"},{"start":11987.398,"end":12009.753,"text":"那可以再更深化人才的交流青年的互訪文化研究源保存等等的共同議題那但是這個部分我覺得在預算的這個整體規劃有點不足所以希望能夠再進一步研議那第一個部分是未來在南島文化交流上要更系統跟統整性的預算規劃跟補助的機制"},{"start":12010.834,"end":12039.051,"text":"不要失衡那第二個部分是怎麼樣強化國內團體來參與南島交流活動的支持那第三個部分是怎麼透過文化交流作為基礎深化太平洋友邦及相關國家在教育青年學術及民間層面的實質合作如果外交部願意在兩個月內提出書面的報告說明相關研議的方向然後再將這個預算在這一個部分的比例"},{"start":12040.012,"end":12046.439,"text":"做一個比較公平的分配的話呢那本席可以將語言凍結的比例調整為凍結150萬元謝謝委員這邊亞太斯做補充說明那亞太斯雖然文教交流與活動預算主要用在補助學術文教基於"},{"start":12057.811,"end":12073.658,"text":"够团体办理台式交流会议的活动但是为了推动我与太平洋三个友邦及亚太地区拥有国家共享南岛文化外交部跟我们原民会已经严密成立了跨部会工作小组作为两部会协力推动原民外交的主要沟通平台"},{"start":12074.418,"end":12100.965,"text":"雅太斯本身也透過國際會議跟交流還有國際合作人關懷兩個預算項目下其他計畫的獎補助費協助推動原民外交最近我們辦理的情形第一個是協助我們原住民青年參加太平洋島國青年領袖培訓計畫2025年跟2026年我們辦理這個計畫特別加邀我國的原住民青年一同參訓成效相當良好"},{"start":12101.525,"end":12129.07,"text":"那會來會繼續邀請我們原住民的青年參加這個訓練那這個訓練的辦理地點是在夏威夷的東西中心有他和辦理那包括除了我們原住民青年以外呢還有馬紹爾柏留土瓦魯巴紐斐濟東加王國庫克群島跟法屬的布尼西亞這些國家學院一起來參訓那課程呢包含了國際關係區域安全永續環境醫藥合作跟南島研究"},{"start":12131.231,"end":12143.021,"text":"而且學院也安排夜宿我們屏東馬家鄉的原民部落深化這個文化連結我們這個計畫總共補助了大概1400萬台幣左右給夏威夷智庫東西中心另外我們也協助2025年原民會協助辦理了國際援助民主的運動會"},{"start":12154.67,"end":12181.645,"text":"我們協助邀請包括澳洲、紐西蘭、東南亞及太平洋友邦這些地方的原住民團體來台灣參加比賽共同促進這個運動會成功舉辦另外今年有一個特別的計畫就是我們海陸南島語族的航行計畫是蘭嶼跟巴丹島300年來的守航案我們補助了財團法人原住民民主文化經濟會在今年的6月"},{"start":12182.425,"end":12204.765,"text":"事實上就是昨天從男女有一艘那個大型有幾艘大型的平板舟航行到那個巴丹島那這也是提升我南島語族文化的國際明顯度並且增進台非兩國人民的情誼連結那我想委員也很清楚我們的原住民尤其是阿美族跟巴丹島的原住民事實上是有相當"},{"start":12206.266,"end":12232.999,"text":"身後的文化跟血緣上面的連結那另外呢今年我們特別有一個太平洋駐台使節團舉辦的太平洋文化晚宴那這一場呢是我們駐台使節團最主要是我們三個邦交國的駐台使節在前陣子六月初呢辦了太平洋文化晚宴那邀請了我們總統還有外交使節跟文化界各界人士那也特別安排了原住民族"},{"start":12233.459,"end":12256.253,"text":"我們台北市援助青少年合唱團在現場做相當長度的表演獲得現場所有民眾觀眾貴賓的肯定那這些都是我們亞太斯在這一段時間來針對原民文化跟原民外交所做的努力那希望委員能夠支持我們的預算謝謝那黃董委員有沒有要補充的部分沒有"},{"start":12264.144,"end":12277.81,"text":"沒有65案沒有那我這邊是不是剛才市長這邊有提我這邊我只是說明一下因為65、66都台灣民主基金會"},{"start":12280.1,"end":12283.582,"text":"好 連倩姐委員先謝謝主席我只是針對剛才司長這邊我做一個補充然後也不是更正就是說那個可能在南島語族這邊就如同我剛才講的你們在台日還有在這一個項目裡面的一個比例應該再做一個處理跟調整"},{"start":12298.789,"end":12314.649,"text":"那也就是說您剛才其實有談到目前你們送一艘那個達物族的船出去嘛那事實上達物族跟巴丹島是同一個文化生活圈那阿美族也比較獨特所以不是說阿美族跟巴丹島是同源啦而是說"},{"start":12315.45,"end":12341.812,"text":"在這樣子聽起來可能大家對於整個原住民族各族之間的特性我們其實是應該再更深化跟強化一點那另外所以我藉這個機會希望你們在這整個預算裡面的一個整理就如同我第一個部分提出來的應該再做一個更系統化的統整然後在原民跟南道語族這個部分應該再更加重"},{"start":12342.712,"end":12358.201,"text":"除了你們知道的船的文化以外其實在各個海洋族群裡面船的文化不是只有達沃族的拼板舟大概你們也可以了解目前也有阿美族的帆船現在航行在台灣海峽"},{"start":12359.441,"end":12383.862,"text":"所以你們在做這件事情的時候未來可能可以在這個預算上的一個處理更細緻所以本席這邊又提出洞見150萬然後你們將這個部分再做依照本席所講的那個做一個系統性的統整然後在原住民的各族裡面如何再更細緻的做一個經費補助的處理或者是在未來文化推動的"},{"start":12384.602,"end":12395.73,"text":"精緻化那本席這邊就提出150萬的凍結那我們後續如果可以在這個部分更精進的話我想應該對用此項應該是比較有效益的好不好好那我們63到66案以64案為主案併案凍結150案150萬提書面報告金同意後此的凍結"},{"start":12412.389,"end":12418.936,"text":"那我們現在休息用餐下午一點半繼續開會謝謝"},{"start":17813.257,"end":17821.804,"text":"我們現在繼續開會先補充宣告第65案抽出改列組決議接下來處理第67案請外交部說明"},{"start":17829.564,"end":17850.688,"text":"主席各位委員拉美斯就在這個提案做報告是由林楚英委員針對這個國際會議交流協助各國國際交流活動為了檢視巴西交流及經濟政策提案凍結500萬美元500萬台幣那請我們向委員解釋呢委員已經同意改成改組決議報告完畢好改組決議接下來併案處理68到71案"},{"start":17859.884,"end":17880.096,"text":"第68案到第71案主要是歐洲司跟北美司有關於對外推動國際各種學術交流我們已經跟提案的黃榮委員、羅美琳委員跟馬文君委員以及徐曉旭委員做過說明"},{"start":17882.558,"end":17896.807,"text":"主要的這個相關的預算會用在以歐洲為例會有超過17個國家35個智庫的合作案另外在相關的預算裡面也包括台澳聯絡獎學金"},{"start":17898.628,"end":17924.304,"text":"以過去2021年到2025年的執行成果已經有超過2500位的學生透過台澳聯軍獎學金到台灣來學習中文另外我們也推動中華民國講座這一部分是一些比較小型的講座主要的內容就是加深歐洲的國家對於台灣 對於兩岸 對於區域"},{"start":17926.605,"end":17946.5,"text":"以及對於台灣的科技等等的認識希望他們能夠進一步的支持台灣那相關的執行率在以2025年為例包括歐洲市跟北美市都是完全執行那因此我們也希望委員能夠支持我們今年增加編列"},{"start":17947.841,"end":17974.163,"text":"此外在相關的預算裡面還包括一個新的計畫就是台灣語言中心那我們會配合現在台商在以及我們的半導體產業在歐洲的佈局以德國波蘭跟捷克為主要推動台灣語言中心這部分的計畫跟僑委會以這個僑教為主的是有區別"},{"start":17974.904,"end":17989.902,"text":"那另外我們也結合教育部所推動的AI的華語拍檔計畫所以未來會運用AI在相關的教學上那對於相關的項目我們是希望委員能夠支持"},{"start":17990.623,"end":18014.552,"text":"那委員早上主席跟這個相關委員早上也有提到說因為執行上時間的限制所以如果可以務實的檢討說到底今年可以有哪些可以執行那我們因此是建議是說我們可以檢列五百萬科目自行調整但是是懇請是不是可以免於凍結以上報告劉華澤委員"},{"start":18021.824,"end":18040.414,"text":"這個本案的說明之前都沒有回應本席提案的一個質疑在針對這68案的這個部分本人都境外監助與委辦的對象在一起的效應中用的都是模糊主觀的一個形容詞"},{"start":18041.594,"end":18054.02,"text":"所以这些智库提供的报告到底是为了迎合台湾还是真的提供我们外部的一个思维那本席建议维持冻结2000万罗曼琳委员"},{"start":18061.299,"end":18082.432,"text":"謝謝主席本席的69案本席的69案是針對歐洲司在115年度我們有編列一個加強歐洲地區華語文計劃然後規劃在歐洲要再設置華語文中心其實除了我們歐洲司的計劃之外其實僑委會從109年開始它就已經推動"},{"start":18086.054,"end":18106.72,"text":"台灣華語文學習中心設置計畫到目前為止在歐美地區已經有88所的華語文中心另外教育部也有一個在歐美跟當地的大學合作的台灣優華語專案所以我不曉得說我們外交部的這個計畫跟僑委會還有教育部這當中這個計畫有沒有重疊之處而且"},{"start":18113.442,"end":18132.581,"text":"我想说而且我又交叉比对了一下像外交部说我们第一年会在德国 波兰 捷克 法国等有半导体产业的国家为优先推动的方向我看一下協会会的这个推动的这个欧洲的国家也含了德国 波兰 捷克跟法国"},{"start":18133.021,"end":18148.921,"text":"那甚至教育部的這個台灣優華語專案呢它合作的學校在歐洲就有10個國家然後超過20所的這個大學所以說我在想說這個有沒有辦法做這個資源的這個整合還是說"},{"start":18150.601,"end":18172.225,"text":"這是有資源重疊的這個問題所以我還是希望外交部針對這個部分來做一個清楚的說明那尤其是外交部是今年才開始這個計劃那僑委會跟這個教育部其實他們都已經是行之有年了所以這部分的話我希望在這裡能夠得到外交部更清楚的說明以上謝謝好黃委員是要凍結兩千萬對"},{"start":18185.891,"end":18207.854,"text":"剪裂500 黃委員凍結數你有沒有要你是凍結還是剪裂沒有凍結啊維持凍結2000萬嘛但是因為你們這個沒有凍結還是要啦 因為你有新的項目在推嘛其實你應該還是要對 可以凍結一些看"},{"start":18210.934,"end":18230.286,"text":"你覺得要減多少本來你們歐洲司的意思呢你們的意思勒是已經提出說減劣500本席提案的時候他直接要減劣500啦你是凍結啦你是要減劣500然後呢我們是整個這個弊案處理是不是"},{"start":18237.13,"end":18260.232,"text":"我們現在是68案到71案是並案存立所以歐洲市這邊是能夠接受就是直接檢列500萬嗎是不是不要凍結直接檢列500萬我們要凍結因為有提案它有一些項目還是必須說明清楚因為我本席的這個你們是要另外再如果說要說明的話對我來說明"},{"start":18262.199,"end":18281.198,"text":"報告主席委員這個歐洲空間現在非常大孔子學院撤出啦那因為以前我們這個喬教或者是我們一般大學的合作說實在是其實喬教在減少啦因為很多的第二代之後當然也要學語言但是跟以前真的減少很多再來就是"},{"start":18282.438,"end":18295.344,"text":"大學有他自己比較一套可是你看我們在德勒斯登的投資現在那個供應鏈從德國捷克到波蘭我們是比如說這個台商企業在那邊投資之後其實大量需要對我們的華語"},{"start":18298.425,"end":18322.299,"text":"這個我們可能要就近他們的地方比如在德士登去就近跟這個台積電投資的附近的這個生態系來合所以我們是比較是新興一點有一點是因為經濟外交這是一個也跟那個僑委會跟教育部都有溝通過分工合作所以我們很重視這個程序避免重疊或有三不管那另外就是智庫外交"},{"start":18323.58,"end":18340.708,"text":"我是認為歐洲智庫外交然後國會外交文化外交跟科技外交空間非常大因為中共不太有這種智庫外交所以你看來訪的人以及我去或者是我們現在的幾乎很多高層都可以到波蘭然後捷克甚至我去荷蘭"},{"start":18341.869,"end":18368.534,"text":"那英國當然不用講所以其實智庫外交是對他們政府來講說那人家智庫辦活動你中共一直抗議我們不能去所以這個合作項目現在也透過智庫在巴爾幹就是說新興的拓邦地方其實透過智庫比較他們比較容易接受所以它兼具不是傳統的學術上的所以這個是另外那獎學金當然效果是最好的"},{"start":18368.854,"end":18392.498,"text":"因為其實他們都想要發展半導體或AI可是沒那麼快我們就放長線釣大魚先來人才培訓嘛所以這個獎學金其實留下來的人才很多是我們的企業界在用它會留在台灣繼續學訓用然後回去之後也變成我們雇用的人所以它的效果也是非常大所以歐洲的情勢確實是可以說是空間突然撐得很大"},{"start":18392.938,"end":18413.531,"text":"那我們為什麼要歐洲專案人員要增加還有這些預算有這樣背後的一個背景以上補充 謝謝部長剛剛有補充不過因為台灣獎座這個累計我們台歐連結獎學金的部分累計超收大概兩千名的學生來台學習華語了"},{"start":18415.672,"end":18419.915,"text":"不過就我們整體的說明還有它實質的連結或者流台發展或者由我的網絡建立的具體成果我們還是希望可以提供相關的資料不然因為我們都說有可是我們沒有看到具體的這些數據資料好 黃委員好 那這樣的話我們再降為凍結500萬好了"},{"start":18441.249,"end":18459.932,"text":"那就照剛剛部長提出來的我們68到71案併案檢列500凍結500提書面報告經同意後使得動之就以68案黃忍委員的提案為主案科目自行調整接下來併案處理72到78案請外交部說明"},{"start":18474.827,"end":18497.506,"text":"主席委員大家好這個北美司先代表說明那個北美司先簡報一下就是我們北美地區美國跟加拿大管處我們編列的預算部分那這個我們在5月18號的時候已經有跟黃榮委員的辦公室的主任有先跟他報告過了那主要是在說其實我們北美地區"},{"start":18498.447,"end":18520.934,"text":"美國跟加拿大加起來有17個管處我們今年只編列了700萬的新台幣平均起來每個管處大概分到40 41萬42萬台幣那這個的用途主要是在說因為今年是台灣總統只選30週年美國是建國250週年然後這是我們希望由住處來多彰顯這個"},{"start":18522.935,"end":18548.367,"text":"就是台美在共同的共享價值另外台灣現在也是憑藉半導體高階製造還有科技創新的優勢已經是全球供應鏈不可或缺的重要夥伴尤其川普現在又在講說台灣偷晶片這些所以我們是希望駐美國的管處可以透過不再是傳統的平面媒體"},{"start":18549.207,"end":18575.066,"text":"而是透過跟譬如說那種這是針對川普的MAGA的這個基本盤然後在南方各州針對他鎖定他們這些保守派的這些廣播節目也好社群媒體的這些網紅也好透過他們來專訪方式來說明說台灣是美國要維持AI霸權裡面不可或缺的夥伴主要是我們是希望這些這個700萬經費可以讓我們的這十幾個外國人來平均來用其實"},{"start":18578.769,"end":18604.8,"text":"真的用起來這個其實真的是遠遠不夠但是如果說被刪除掉這個就是我們對美國的這些尤其針對這個川普核心的基本盤是就是會在這個宣傳讓他們知道台灣的重要性上面會受到很大的影響所以還是就是懇請委員就是不要剪裂這個我們這麼這麼少的這個外管的美選預算"},{"start":18611.506,"end":18635.466,"text":"延伸會繼續補充說明一下延伸會的案子是第77跟第78案最主要是有關擴大辦理留台校友會的業務還有外交部的TA也就是留台校友會的臉書的經營還有相關的活動留台校友會是因為我們在推動外交工作很重要的一塊就是跟國際青年的連結"},{"start":18636.687,"end":18665.134,"text":"那尤其最近幾年呢有很多的國際的學生還有國際的學人來台灣來做研究那這些學生跟學人呢回到自己的母國之後呢慢慢形成一股友台的力量那我們是很希望說跟他們繼續在保持很強力的連結所以透過辦很多活動還有臉書的連結持續的來保持他們了解台灣也讓他們能夠持續支持台灣"},{"start":18665.974,"end":18688.632,"text":"我們現在已經有95個台灣友台的校友會了這些在國際的各個領域上面都扮演一個重要角色而且這些校友其實有很多在母國也有相當的貢獻跟發展所以很希望委員的支持我們是建議說請委員憂於考慮就是減列100萬台幣那科目自行調整免於凍結謝謝"},{"start":18697.105,"end":18702.91,"text":"那個以外交部的說明提供的北美斯的113年度的執行率"},{"start":18704.933,"end":18732.697,"text":"為主表示當年有重大的台灣關係法第45週年但實際執行的622萬今年是美國建國250週年台灣執行30週年所以經費增加到700萬本市覺得這些活動和台美外交關係的實際的一個關聯性其實沒有那麼大所以本市建議下修簡列50萬以上的建議"},{"start":18735.299,"end":18736.92,"text":"黃建斌委員謝謝主席主席本席有提兩個案子一個就是73案我想這個在針對我們五國補助這個優秀的藝文團體出國表演的部分本席立場是支持的因為文化交流其實是不但可以展現我們台灣的文化實力也有助於台灣"},{"start":18759.432,"end":18776.477,"text":"和國際形象的正面在這邊有幾個問題想要請教部裡面就是說關於我們補助的團體有哪些然後補助項目有哪些執行成果有哪些補助項目有哪些也希望一併來說明因為台灣有很多優秀的文化團體他也希望看到這個他們也可以來申請"},{"start":18777.697,"end":18794.409,"text":"不過其實事實上本席是也跟外交部要求提供相關補助名單截至今天為止都還沒有拿到完整的補助說明預算部分這邊可以不來刪除但是也希望外交部這邊趕快把相關資料補充來"},{"start":18796.263,"end":18819.444,"text":"那在77案這邊我想當然那個外交部TA臉書經營確實有檢討空間我們也知道說它有一些特殊性它遇到一些困難跟限制那這一題本身認為可以也覺得可以透過主席的方式來請你們來做檢討那或者是依照黃任務委員的這個提案來凍結就可以了以上好 牛學廷委員"},{"start":18824.266,"end":18853.266,"text":"謝謝這本席提案是第74案這歐洲司有關於歐洲文化年嘛這一樣嘛優秀藝文團體補助所以你要補助優秀藝文團體我們沒有意見而且我們是贊同的但問題是補助的標準要明確我們從預算把關的角度到底補助了哪些人這個事情本來就應該公諸於世這曾經外交部來說明的時候一度還說這是機密預算啊你說這是機密預算那你就變機密預算但是你結論後來又改口說不是那既然不是那就把它清楚明白第二我們嚴肅的要求要有客觀的補助標準"},{"start":18854.046,"end":18871.834,"text":"因為講白了這種事情補助這種事情難免從站在預算監督的角度是這筆錢會不會有關係就沒關係對不對就特定人士每次都可以拿這個相關的補助這社會大眾總有對於政府支出的這相關的一些質疑所以面對質疑最好的方式就是透明我都補助了哪些人我的客觀的補助標準跟依據是什麼"},{"start":18873.915,"end":18898.967,"text":"這些東西只要能夠清楚來說明大家對預算就不會為難這737475講的是同一件事啦這本期建議一下也聽一聽建平委員的意見我們看這三案喔併動一千萬書面報告同休時的動資啦這樣兼顧會議的效率剛剛外部意見動結 併動一千萬你們趕快把就剛剛建平委員要求我們要求的嘛書面報告就是講補助的標準嘛跟相關的這個清澈要做合理的提供跟揭露啦好不好"},{"start":18899.887,"end":18916.734,"text":"好 以上好 謝謝委員我簡單說明一下那個歐洲台灣文化年去年因為是年初才出來並沒有編預算我們是整合啦各部會結果效果也非常好大家也看到但其實包括那個教宗這個在叛逆港我們那個原生"},{"start":18917.754,"end":18945.919,"text":"原名那個合唱團因為今年我們就稍微有個主軸就是那個台灣的木偶跟歐洲的木偶來互相對話效果也很好包括在日元瓦巴 包括在布拉格或是法國他們那個木偶戲都很有名所以我們有抓一些主軸所以歐洲的文化確實很多元那台灣的文化團體我想這個資料應該給委員參考因為歐洲真的來來往往的這個文化團體都很精彩包括幽仁神谷"},{"start":18946.539,"end":18961.971,"text":"在羅馬的那個表演那個對他們來講是世界級的啦所以國台交當然是基本最重要我們如果有這個大型的這個音樂然後今年也有像灣生他們自己募款我們就提供一些行政協助那個也是水準很高那美國"},{"start":18963.232,"end":18976.689,"text":"這個因為為什麼有文化交流因為那個包括像那個那個甘迺迪那個中興我們當然支持因為這個他們建國250週年所以文化在歐美日本"},{"start":18978.07,"end":19000.835,"text":"可能最走得出去像日本其實像九天去跟他們就311的那個有點是紀念活動以及最近有一個就是共識新蟲在談那個台灣的這一個藝術家從日本時代一直到現在所以我覺得文化確實是最走得出去的名片所以剛剛謝謝委員就是卓宇三姐然後"},{"start":19002.215,"end":19016.704,"text":"凍結啦凍結凍結我的是閃結我的是閃喔我們凍然後請同仁資料要提供給委員參考因為這是好事情那台灣的文化團體出去表演也都非常精彩一定是很精彩才有辦法走出去謝謝"},{"start":19020.424,"end":19049.729,"text":"本席提的是3.7百因為你們剛剛提本來我要3.7百萬你們剛剛的說明理由我們覺得不是那麼具體而且不是那麼可以說服因為你在今年美國建國250週年事實上這是美國的事那我們即使有17個管處我們不是原來沒有預算而是你增加了預算"},{"start":19050.309,"end":19070.587,"text":"所以每個管處會多增加40萬可是我們希望它可以有效的運用那剛剛尤其我們在你們有提到一個例子說川普總統說我們是小偷偷了晶片對我們你這個過了你會怎麼大力反擊你告訴我會怎麼"},{"start":19075.131,"end":19096.562,"text":"那時候第一時間如果賴清德總統站出來講川普總統你說錯了我們是靠我們的晶片可以達到今天這樣的成果是我們國人努力的成果很多人是爆肝努力得來的成果所以只要賴總統站出來講我相信這個國際媒體也都會登所以不是用現在要編這個預算才來想要去"},{"start":19101.525,"end":19128.125,"text":"提什麼其他的事 部長後續還是會投稿嘛可是你們還會做什麼如果沒有你我覺得如果當第一時間有人侮辱到我們或者傷害到我們的時候其實都必須要第一時間出來講 尤其是外交部"},{"start":19128.57,"end":19143.668,"text":"所以现在说用今年的预算才要去弥补什么是已经有点慢了可是我们还是希望要有所作为因为这样的印象持续都是存在的那你还要那您可以左减列就好"},{"start":19144.388,"end":19159.986,"text":"就是因為就是說其實剛才黃仁委員講說就是減列50萬可以嗎因為其實就是我們真的700萬分給17個管處每個管處大概1萬你增加的預算你原來就有2400多萬"},{"start":19162.489,"end":19180.759,"text":"那個是外交部本身就是我們是北美是專門給美國這個美國跟加拿大管處的就只有這700萬因為這只有就是專款專用要用來在世大媒體就是這個錢那去年我沒有編剛才黃任委員講到113年其實我們是編了680萬你是因為美國建國不是這個去年被刪我們前一年113年我們編的是680萬執行率是90%"},{"start":19190.484,"end":19214.92,"text":"那去年我們就是編了700萬可是因為去年都被刪所以就是就沒得用那今年我們只是維持去年的這個同樣的額度那跟前一年比起來是增加了20萬其實我們這個都是給17個外管來用的真的是好沒關係就這個部分那本席提案的76案就減列100萬因為其實你已經過了這麼這麼"},{"start":19219.537,"end":19221.365,"text":"多的時間了 簡列100萬有沒有意見 沒有"},{"start":19223.854,"end":19249.688,"text":"好 那請許曉欣委員我這邊沒有意見因為剛好因為我們這個病案號可能有點跳就是說我其實71案這邊也是北美司然後第八款第一項外交部然後第四幕國際級交流的對 所以我這邊配合昭緯那我也不就是不另外我就跟昭緯一起這樣就好了謝謝那對不起 那個主席主席 報告主席"},{"start":19251.648,"end":19262.094,"text":"那可不可以再請教那因為之前黃委員他是他基本上他也是針對他是檢列50萬他在就是加價共100萬謝謝謝謝好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝委員"},{"start":19282.742,"end":19283.322,"text":"七十二"},{"start":19325.311,"end":19325.651,"text":"好 那我們現在72到78案我們病案凍結1000萬"},{"start":19349.847,"end":19367.779,"text":"然後提書面報告金同意後時的動之我們以牛啟庭委員的提案為主案那另外簡列一百萬的部分以七十二案黃仁委員的提案為主案好 科目字條接下來併案處理七十九到九十一案請外交部說明"},{"start":19390.45,"end":19411.035,"text":"主席各位委員大家好7.9到9.1案已送書面報告同時也向委員辦公室做說明其中7.9、9.10、9.1三個案子委員關切榮邦計畫的執行內容跟效益這部分書面報告有做說明工作的重點以及成果檢視的標準"},{"start":19412.595,"end":19429.153,"text":"由於榮邦計畫是外交部重要的計畫而且積極規劃推動之中日後也會定期在國防外交委員會的業務裡面進行成果的報告另外83案以獲防人委員同意改為主決議並以簽名"},{"start":19432.977,"end":19448.628,"text":"85到89案是有關於委員關切CPTPP的推動狀況這部分外交部也正強化跟會員國的溝通也規劃聘請公安公司加強遊說同時也透過我國產業經貿的實力來影響會員國"},{"start":19453.11,"end":19460.354,"text":"也在推動實質的合作以上的說明因此建請同意7991病案檢列200萬科目自行調整免於凍結謝謝"},{"start":19469.622,"end":19496.861,"text":"好 牛曲田委員好 謝謝主席這兩個人一起講這巴瑟案是針對北美斯這個敗匯智庫本來就是應該做的事好 但是一樣嘛這個就像補助各個團體一樣嘛這個花錢去敗匯或是去安排那就做一些合理的揭露如果這些有機敏的需求你該列機密預算列機密預算該保密你可以保密 這沒有問題但既然是公開的預算相關的說明我們就按照預算中心的一些相關的一些指示這個本來就應該合理來做公開那我想我們"},{"start":19497.581,"end":19521.605,"text":"這個大家都跟智庫互動這個國會也跟智庫互動嘛所以我想這彼此之間大家互通有無一下交換一下意見總是好事所以我覺得這事沒有必要長頭說尾所以我要求要把這個智庫相關的一些名冊跟過去的一些時間的紀錄做成書面報告所以我還是提案凍結但是我們就書面報告同意後解凍這希望外部及早來準備這個是82案的部分那86案的部分CPTPP的部分就比較嚴重一點因為"},{"start":19522.305,"end":19547.238,"text":"這本席的提案就是不外乎就想了解嘛因為你寫說用多元的手段來促進CPTPP的加入那這個多元的手段到底是怎麼多元怎麼個手段這是大家會非常好奇的事因為其實我們在答詢的過程中其實部長也知道這我從來不為難你但你也講了你也講大實話嘛這東西很困難因為輪值會員國等等它有一些硬性的條件卡這個地方加上中間出現了一些內部的一些委屈吧一些這樣子的狀況還有很大的問題有待於釐清那剛剛這個"},{"start":19551.281,"end":19573.876,"text":"這個國際處有回應說用公關公司遊說它真的會有效嗎所以我覺得這些東西還有待釐清啦所以本席還是認為這幾案怎麼樣一個凍結一個專案報告還是有所必要的反正我們每個會席都會針對CPTPP的進度進行專案報告啦所以本席喔這個我是認為我是建議這樣子啦簡列的部分簡列啦那剩下的部分可以凍結一半專案報告之後進行解凍啦我提個意見給大家參考一下謝謝如果是1450我就凍結700啦"},{"start":19582.219,"end":19593.905,"text":"對啊 欸 你這多元手段到底是多多元啊欸 一千多萬欸然後弄一個很難的事情 對不對這個我覺得很難交代欸對不對您數購一下啦好 黃建平委員"},{"start":19610.719,"end":19632.411,"text":"謝謝主席主席我提的是85案我想外交部推動這個要加入CPTPP這個相關也投入相關這個宣傳跟官費不少我想要請問就是透過媒體宣傳公關合作還委託顧問公司到底幫我們爭取到哪些會員國的實質的支持那相關的成效怎麼評估然後是否有具體的成果可以來說明"},{"start":19633.732,"end":19661.087,"text":"那另外就是說我們外交部宣稱我們有這個澳洲媒體的機場競技學家台灣專輯有百萬收視還有上千萬的曝光如果本席查看公開資料裡面youtube的觀看數不到500但是部分影片已經設為不公開不公開那請問外交部你是不是有查證過這個相關的流量數據的真實性那是不是能夠提供第三方的這個檢測資料然後證明說相關的經費確實有發揮預期的效益那其他部分我去跟好謝謝"},{"start":19665.958,"end":19690.091,"text":"不管是外交部經濟部還是經貿辦都在立法院提出多次的一個報告在本席都發現基本上每一份報告幾乎都是不斷的重複一樣的一個內容所以本席對於所謂的多元管道推動加入CPTTT完全看不出發揮什麼樣的功效"},{"start":19691.152,"end":19707.912,"text":"那今年的CPTPP的一個輪值主席是主席國是越南本席也看不出透過媒體宣傳真的能影響到越南政府的一個意向"},{"start":19708.593,"end":19725.824,"text":"而且我們也很清楚的CPTPP成員成員國支不支持台灣加入的關鍵是地緣政治和國家的利益和公眾的影響力關係不大所以本席維持凍結300萬或者不凍結預算但是將150萬的沒先費刪除以上"},{"start":19736.584,"end":19746.491,"text":"好那本席是八十案還有八十一案然後還有八十四案八九九十首先八十案的部分這個部分要求凍結一百萬因為目前我們這個主要編列相關的預算六百多萬吧六百七十幾萬"},{"start":19766.383,"end":19774.29,"text":"那這個辦理促進台日海洋漁業對話交流近日發生這個經濟海域重疊的部分或者他們自行要去討論然後把我們排除在外我們到底有什麼樣的應用作為或者我們有什麼樣的辦法在這個台日海洋漁業的對話裡面可以提出什麼樣子對我方"},{"start":19792.907,"end":19812.192,"text":"整個經濟海域包括漁業跟海洋的這些相關的資源運用這個部分必須要把它說明清楚這個80案凍結100萬那另外81案的部分這個部分因為我們看到今年新增委辦費這個年度比去上個年度增加1億"},{"start":19819.562,"end":19829.67,"text":"一億五千萬 增幅高達一倍以上新增的委辦費要一千五百萬這個委辦費是規劃委託民間單位辦理三個團次赴歐洲經貿考察以及託訪活動"},{"start":19838.476,"end":19849.545,"text":"那這是機票是自費嗎還是他吃住都是外交部負責我們看不到因為你增加這麼多的增加一億五千萬然後光是這個這個案子三個團體三個團市就要一千五百萬那這個一千五百萬等於平均每團經費高達五百萬我們到底要行銷什麼我們到底要做什麼我們到底有什麼樣的一個成效我們編列的預算數"},{"start":19868.055,"end":19894.967,"text":"比去年高出這麼多那新增的委辦費也這麼高而且每團五百萬這非常高這個有必要說清楚那再加上我們也覺得今年也增加太多了所以我們希望有三棟的這個相關的預算本期是提棟三百減三百那另外他說只有編三千耶三千哪一個三千就是八十一號嗯?八十一"},{"start":19899.617,"end":19919.825,"text":"你說歐洲司然後你那個三個團次的部分呢三團的那個委辦費就是1500萬嘛對 因為這樣的一個團裡面會有兩筆預算一個是旅費 一個是委辦費那個對象是誰對象就是台灣的企業為主對 所以他們的費用是我們出"},{"start":19920.633,"end":19944.949,"text":"我們通常不會全額那500萬是有多少人然後要多少天然後你做什麼500萬你告訴我們一個團是要500萬它是什麼樣的企業要花到這麼多我們今年會以無人機為主多少人我們三個團不一定大小多少人一般大概就是20個人20個人要花500萬為什麼"},{"start":19950.813,"end":19975.478,"text":"因為他們去那邊除了旅費之外還要辦商展那辦商展是需要場地費需要一些費用那他們要去做生意的話應該他們自己要負擔因為你是企業他們會負擔部分部分是多少我們看每個團的屬性以及招募的情況這個部分我們還是建議要刪減因為你不管是辦什麼樣你如果是商展商展已經辦過了嗎"},{"start":19977.235,"end":19978.519,"text":"因為現在預算還沒通過這三團都還沒有嘛所以我們檢列300 動300已經很客氣了吧"},{"start":19984.703,"end":19998.706,"text":"你已經剩下五個月的時間你即使要找新的另外我們還是要提醒因為包括我們所有更重要的這樣子一個對外的不管是的組團然後我們現在如果企業要出去辦商展我們國內有很多企業都非常優秀啊以前"},{"start":20010.169,"end":20037.557,"text":"我們林部長來自台中他那個地方其實太多太多國際型的而且非常優秀的企業他們自己走遍大江南北走遍我們所有世界各地大家應該都有能力自己去參與這樣子的一個活動所以我們編這樣的預算 老實說本來我是覺得應該要全減的這個部分 謝謝你這個部分 三減跟那個凍結一部分謝謝"},{"start":20039.076,"end":20059.739,"text":"好 這個部分我們减300 凍300我們要强调凍解的原因 应该把它讲清楚如果它不应该花的甚至你都 即使我们删减数字帐我们还是希望把它省下来因为有一些我们应该花在刀口上啦 好不好那另外 董玉珂给我一点时间我说明一下 因为这个新兴市场"},{"start":20060.92,"end":20083.993,"text":"我在一年半前組了一個無人機團之後現在就開發結果對於歐洲的投資而且很多是一起合資在歐洲建廠這個對我們全球佈局是很有幫助為什麼歐洲是會編這個其實我們過去個別投資可是長期我們外交部或經濟部帶的團說實在有展沒有投資"},{"start":20086.058,"end":20100.936,"text":"其實後面人家看不到成果但我很堅持去都要做很好先媒合所以你看最近歐洲團來不管是波蘭 捷克其實他們都是七八十個人就像波蘭的經濟次長而且真的是已經到達B2B"},{"start":20102.498,"end":20125.047,"text":"那我們現在帶出去就是說要有個陣容你個別去談判籌碼不高所以波蘭最近包括他們的副總理外交部長在國會業務報告第一次提到台灣就是說他們已經知道台灣的實力那包括現在電動車還有這個有關於這個所謂的T-MA電電工會的園區都是因為這兩年我們的做法不一樣就是說要做聯合艦隊"},{"start":20126.848,"end":20141.522,"text":"揪團要大中小企業都有以大代小所以其實這個是對他們來講是一小部分啦他們本身如果要去的話一個禮拜所以像我最近我會去波蘭華沙那當然是因為台灣形象展有一百家企業"},{"start":20142.483,"end":20162.454,"text":"那這100加7要把它轉成我們外交啊跟他們洽談不管是經貿的啦或者是未來的對我們的這些投資保障那米蘭米蘭也是另外一個很重要在那邊有環球晶上銀有這個台尼的投資可是我們過去沒有去運用個別企業的投資所以我們現在組團之後也許變成20幾個人哇 這個不得了他們一看到說這個台灣隊的實力這麼強跟過去我們國金協會或有時候貸出去或外貿協會"},{"start":20172.259,"end":20187.573,"text":"其實真的常常在那邊展沒有做成什麼生意我們這次是從結果論所以歐洲是確實是現在中東歐巴爾幹甚至未來的烏克蘭新興市場所以我們想說讓同仁可以"},{"start":20188.434,"end":20196.156,"text":"修到比較好的企業然後願意我們貼一點點而已啦實際上他們出的是非常大的一個數字但是他們願意跟團或組團這個是委員卓宇刪減或凍結我想這個我們歐洲時就來辦理謝謝謝謝部長的說明那另外就是84案的部分84案這個部分是補助業者富有幫"},{"start":20215.037,"end":20234.505,"text":"去投資或者參加投資考察團機票的補助等相關經費這個大概編列了兩千兩百萬那因為外交部在鼓勵業者富有幫投資的補助辦法裡面近三年投資補助資源比較集中在史瓦帝尼馬紹爾群島還有帛琉"},{"start":20236.369,"end":20250.28,"text":"還有巴拉圭嗎現在就是說我們招商的部分有瓜地馬拉、巴拉圭、貝里斯還有聖克里斯多福以及尼維斯就是這些"},{"start":20251.781,"end":20266.954,"text":"有幫可是業者的意願其實很低所以我們編這樣的預算好像它的效益並不是很大我們也希望說可以更有效的去發揮怎麼樣的一個投資環境因為第一有些距離真的太遠那你要我們國內相關的業者去那裡做投資的選項也很少甚至沒有所以這個部分我們要我們是提案動100"},{"start":20281.34,"end":20283.322,"text":"然後89跟90我們看到89的部分主要是這個酬組參訪團這個CPTPP待會跟大家一起併案一起處理"},{"start":20300.655,"end":20320.268,"text":"因為CPTPP事實上我們看到現在當然它有實際上的困難可是我們每次都說我們會有很多特殊的比較可能有利的條件事實上我們不夠積極這個可能才是大家應該要去追究的部分待會兒併案處理另外90案的部分"},{"start":20324.15,"end":20326.433,"text":"因為我們今年115年新編的這個運用我國優勢產業實踐榮邦計劃相關的經費這個編列的預算高達"},{"start":20338.379,"end":20363.75,"text":"三億七千四百萬可能涵蓋的有半導體AI智慧農業智慧觀光數位治理還有人才培訓等相關的計劃可是這個委辦費我們都覺得非常高因為委辦費高達兩億八千九百萬等於快要三億的預算都是在委辦這個佔總預算可能也高達有到七成嗎"},{"start":20365.05,"end":20374.375,"text":"這個部分我們覺得有必要去好好的說明然後這個預算也編的太多90案我們原來減列5000減列1000動5000"},{"start":20383.973,"end":20410.201,"text":"好 謝謝那報告委員我覺得CPTPP我們是要檢討因為這些問題出來行政院也綜合在檢討因為機制上還有人才還有談判策略外交部真的是很認真因為我們外管而且我們一直在掐但是掐不動有它背後其實還是大戰略的問題現在大家都知道要做徹底的檢討怎麼去強化整個行政院跨部會經貿"},{"start":20411.621,"end":20429.943,"text":"投資這些談判這個是我們同意那越南是他算很特別他明年辦APEC所以應該是順著這個CPP到APEC那越南有求於我們曾經他矮化我們我們把他停止一些合作之後他就道歉了這個也是很少見"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}