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葛如君委員"},{"start":1980.438,"end":2004.956,"text":"接著介紹與會的官員運動部部長李陽黃啟黃政務次長洪志昌常務次長朱俊章常務次長楊嘉琳政務次長速發部不好意思文化部政務次長王石獅"},{"start":2009.132,"end":2035.134,"text":"經濟部政務次長何敬昌勞動部政務次長黃琳娜衛生福利部常務次長莊仁祥非常感謝國家科學技術委員會主任秘書林廣洪外交部主任秘書曾國清內政部常務次長吳唐安"},{"start":2037.057,"end":2050.674,"text":"法務部法制司林黛麗副市長財政部政務次長陳永勝副稅署組長葉惠娟"},{"start":2060.478,"end":2084.112,"text":"其餘列席機關代表請參閱名單不再主義介紹並列入公報記錄現在進行提案說明請問有委員要提案說明嗎好運動部已於6月4日報告完畢請兩部長做補充報告可以嗎報告時間5分鐘"},{"start":2099.707,"end":2124.16,"text":"主席各位委員各位女士先生大家好今日里昂101列席大院教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議針對及審議電競基本法法條草案再次請進行報告敬請各位委員指正與支持那首先感謝各位專家學者及委員在上午的公聽會提供的寶貴意見運動部和大家的立場一致那支持電競運動產業的發展"},{"start":2126.602,"end":2140.727,"text":"為了更充分的廣納各方意見運動部願意在最快的時間內召集各方的專家學者及產業代表來進行對談廣納不同的聲音及意見作為未來政策上的參考及依據運動部會支持電競運動及電競產業"},{"start":2145.969,"end":2167.639,"text":"運動部也願意用更務實的態度跟作為成為電競運動的後盾本部對於電子競技運動發展基本法的草案回應說明就現況分析的部分經實務盤點目前電競產業面臨三大困境第一場館定位模糊缺乏專屬公共安全標準與分級"},{"start":2168.94,"end":2197.976,"text":"第二缺乏常态赛事与人才欠缺单项协会主导与从业征召导致赛事难以常态化企业投资意愿低人才外流第三受限软体制裁权也就是IP赛事主导权掌握在游戏营运商手中政府难以直接介入其商业行为二运动部的推动做法针对上述的挑战从四大构面来全面推进一政策引领"},{"start":2198.416,"end":2223.678,"text":"与多元资金的挹注本部已将电竞业明确的纳入运动产业实施贷款信保以及利息补贴降低业者盈余成本同时我们正正在研拟这个电竞产业的白皮书作为施政的依据下一步我们将建立国发基金投资运动产业的机制引导民间资金共同投入"},{"start":2224.284,"end":2230.15,"text":"二在基層賽事的輔導與行銷推廣我們持續提供民間辦比賽轉播行銷宣導補助減輕辦比賽的成本並提升曝光度未來將運用115年度的新興級極限運動輔導計畫持續的挹注經費讓電競賽事走向常態化"},{"start":2245.834,"end":2270.669,"text":"3.健全人才职能与国际赛事的备战对内我们正研拟运动产业人才职能基准培育转播行销等幕后的专业人力对外面对今年2026民股亚裔高达7种游戏与上届不同的激烈变动本部已启动选手培训全力争取国际赛事佳绩4.我们研拟专属的补助办法"},{"start":2272.421,"end":2301.197,"text":"精准解决产业困境面对科技与数位运动的快速更变政策支持必须更具时效与弹性本部目前正积极研拟数位科技运动项目辅导奖励及补助办法希望透过法规命令直接针对场馆改善赛事推广与人才培育给予实质的经费补助这也是实务上最能够快速解决产业的痛点同时免除法规法条的进合疑虑最有效的政策工具"},{"start":2302.077,"end":2305.882,"text":"那在捷宇的部分,我們在電競產業這邊整體的規模非常龐大涵蓋了硬體、軟體、賽事、人才、周邊資源等層面電子機器與傳統運動項目之核心差異在於賽制與"},{"start":2319.76,"end":2338.859,"text":"规则受游戏软体开发公司与代理商绝对的制约影响也是游戏版本更新均可能对竞赛规则与战术策略造成巨大的变革与冲击在现行国际市场的运作架构下本部基于运动主管机关立场"},{"start":2339.748,"end":2359.604,"text":"優先對於電競選手的培育與權益保障以及賽事推廣設施環境改善與全民參與等提供必要的協助針對未來我國電競產業的發展期望能建立起政府政策引導民間落實專業執行的運作機制感謝各界對於優化電競產業"},{"start":2360.905,"end":2371.51,"text":"以及環境的關注因此本部期盼能將這份量能直接聚焦於在現有實務機制的優化與成效的改善相信這將是最及時有效的能夠達成委員對電競產業的發展與期望"},{"start":2374.687,"end":2403.571,"text":"本部也希望广纳各位先进的实务经验让未来整体法治的架构走向能够真正契合产业的实际需求政府期盼能与大家携手努力作为台湾电竞产业的稳健发展的后盾以上报告敬请各位委员持续给予本部的支持与指教详细内容请参阅书面报告并祝各位委员健康如意谢谢大家好谢谢李安部长"},{"start":2406.329,"end":2433,"text":"請坐由於議事錄之前已經宣讀完畢尚未確定現在先確定議事錄請問各位委員上次會議議事錄有無錯誤會議了好議事錄確定其餘提出書面報告機關報告代表除書面外有沒有要口頭補充的好沒有機關代表報告完畢相關書面資料請各位參閱並列入公報記錄"},{"start":2435.427,"end":2458.608,"text":"現在進行詢答每位出席的委員諮詢6分鐘列席的委員諮詢時間為4分鐘均不再延長發言登記時間截止下午3點30分委員如果臨時提案請於下午3點30分提出由於法案審查完畢後再行處理對不起並於法案審查完畢後再行處理"},{"start":2459.816,"end":2478.053,"text":"處理提案時若提案委員聯署委員均不在場趙婉麗是不予處理首先先邀請第一位登記的委員林一錦委員質詢謝謝謝主席有請李部長有請部長"},{"start":2488.068,"end":2505.581,"text":"早上才剛排公聽會那會議記錄跟相關的建議都還來不及消化下午又馬上要詢問大家主條所謂的電競基本法本席在這裡嚴正抗議這種擺明的就是要過過水強度關山的這種排案方式"},{"start":2506.802,"end":2526.441,"text":"請問一下部長你是否認同我們應該要讓所有的意見有更完整的整理跟沉澱然後甚至要把更多元的運動列別的意見都加進來那不應該今天就這樣過水來進行審查這個電競基本法部長你的看法呢"},{"start":2527.182,"end":2551.024,"text":"跟委員報告那首先這個公聽會今天早上聽到非常多專家學者其實對於這個電子競技的發展其實大家都不管是本部還是各位委員其實都希望可以來發展那我想我們也希望說能夠吸收這樣的意見以及想法那其實我們也馬上的請這個不管是次長還是我這個在下禮拜希望能夠來繼續的跟專家學者來一個更"},{"start":2552.785,"end":2575.488,"text":"食物上的能夠幫助到電競這個產業跟運動的這個做法我們也希望說能夠跟他們與會來了解到我們該怎麼做可以更加的完善是因為我要強調是不是每個政策領域的特定項目都可以輕易用上基本法這個架構來規範任何一個運動項目也不一定要立專法來規範"},{"start":2576.849,"end":2606.269,"text":"那羅昭偉他法案的草案總說明其實你有提到就歐美國家對於電子競技運動之政策定位各有不同未必採取單一專法規範所以我認為重要的是在各政策工具怎麼樣執行那而不再說這個法律的規範的位階有多高或有沒有用專法來規範那我想運動部成立的核心當然就是要來大力發展台灣的運動產業那可是今年過了一半"},{"start":2607.169,"end":2627.152,"text":"那羅昭偉連一塊錢的運動部今年度的預算都還沒有審那反而要來立基本法來保障所謂的電競產業我覺得這會不會太本末倒置喔那如果運動部連最基本的運作都成問題那我們要彈劾如何發展運動產業"},{"start":2628.633,"end":2643.94,"text":"那堂堂運動部是一個完整的部會 可到現在沒有正常的預算可以使用只能沿用這個過去體育署的總預算去應稱 那難道我們現階段沒有更迫切的需求就是要讓運動部就是要"},{"start":2644.5,"end":2665.989,"text":"正常來運作不是嗎所以運動部得不到這樣的預算支持不要說電競產業其他的整體的運動產業都會受到很大的影響所以我要請教部長你可以跟我們分享一下運動部運作到今天因為預算的不正常預算的短缺你有哪些工作沒辦法完整落實"},{"start":2666.969,"end":2685.005,"text":"我想跟委員報告那首先當然就如同委員您剛剛講的那因為運動不是去年成立那今年的預算只能沿用去年體育署的整體預算那其實其中最受打擊的其實在全民運動署這邊因為過去他是體育署的全民組那其實在"},{"start":2685.706,"end":2705.269,"text":"全民運動署其實今年很多這個新興的計畫是沒辦法被致用的那當然也很感謝各位委員的努力下在國際市這邊的8億的預算已經可以來先行動之那所以其實我們最容易被影響到其實跟全民運動的發展比較有息息相關的"},{"start":2705.529,"end":2729.53,"text":"我後面會跟你討論一下全民運動那好 那我就說那其實現在無論是羅昭偉跟葛偉仁的提案其實有哪一條不是小改一下文字就可以套用到任何運動上面大家可以來看好好的看他們的法條所以憑什麼李洋部長的最專門的這個羽球沒有基本法那憑什麼我最瘋狂的棒球沒有基本法"},{"start":2730.271,"end":2745.511,"text":"那如果每個人都要來搞個基本法那這樣子的話基本法到底是什麼樣的概念那是不是就在作秀而已這個基本法其實就是一個所謂的定綱大法所以我們有教育基本法我們有文化基本法"},{"start":2746.512,"end":2771.43,"text":"所以這個看得出來它這個是一個框一個方向可是很明顯你現在一個的運動產業一個運動項目都把它搞基本法所以想要請教這個李洋部長你是否有跟其他的運動產業的或者運動的專業人士討論到這件事情如果今天羅昭偉硬要搞一個電競基本法那其他人是不是有很深的這個相對剝奪感"},{"start":2772.751,"end":2801.488,"text":"部長跟委員報告首先當然就如同委員所說的這個在電子競技運動我相信這個不管是今天上午的公聽會不管是委員您還是運動部其實我們都支持電競的發展那但是如果單獨列電競基本法我想對其他運動還是會有相對的剝奪感不管是不管是委員您這個瘋狂的棒球還是這個籃球還是我們我自己參與的羽毛球田徑等等的項目我想"},{"start":2802.048,"end":2829.418,"text":"每一個項目應該都要非常在我們運動部來講都是非常重視的一個運動的發展那也是要先跟委員您說明部長你上個禮拜我們在巡打的時候你就有明確表態這個針對朝委的排審的這個電競基本法你的態度是你希望支持每個運動項目那如果專為單一的運動項目來訂立基本法你覺得會對就如同您剛講的會對其他的項目有失公平"},{"start":2830.298,"end":2855.587,"text":"所以實際上我覺得你這樣的說法就是有一定的高度因為你要平等的去看待每一個運動的發展而不是著眼一個單一的運動那我想今天既然有一個獨立的這個運動專責的部會就是運動部我們把體育署升格成運動部那我們當然我們重要的目標就是要讓整理的運動產業共融發展才對所以今天"},{"start":2856.267,"end":2874.935,"text":"如果要進入這個法案的主條討論我想要請部長你要站穩立場我們要為整體運動產業的均衡發展這個跟所有的運動項目公平來發聲可以嗎跟委員報告那當然身為運動部的立場就是希望可以"},{"start":2876.015,"end":2890.422,"text":"讓每個運動都足以被重視然後我們來去努力的發展各個我們重視的運動那就如同之前全民運動署訂立的這個星星級這個極限運動一樣那我想這都是我們對於每一項運動的重視"},{"start":2892.283,"end":2913.32,"text":"我要重申 土法不足以自行 這正體現現在的電競這項運動我們到底需要多少的行政手段下去支持那如果說立了法律層級的法律 卻沒有相對應的政策工具能支持那我覺得法律就會變得有名無實啊"},{"start":2913.7,"end":2931.427,"text":"像現在沒有預算支撐那這樣子訂立這個法律有什麼用所以重點在政策工具怎麼樣去支撐那怎樣的行政命令行政法令去支撐所以我想在運動部你的書面報告裡面也有提到就是"},{"start":2932.007,"end":2955,"text":"數位科技運動項目輔導獎勵及補助辦法我們在朝你這個那要具備所與時俱進的滾動修正彈性那特別有強調這個考量電競產業這個環境變動極快以法律的層級的基本法來規範恐怕會面對這個快速變化的這個數位市場缺乏彈性的"},{"start":2956.342,"end":2972.304,"text":"調整的彈性所以運動部有傾向要深化落實既有制度並搭配這個制定前瞻性的法規命令來策略做法來快速回應我們這個電競產業跟所有產業的發展的需求所以"},{"start":2973.988,"end":2994.756,"text":"我再明確的講針對電競產業制定基本法一來失去彈性二來我們沒有深刻的行政手段支持那就是一個虛法嘛可是預算還沒通過啊那你行政手段怎麼處理所以我在這邊要懇切的向召委提醒你的出發點很好我們大家也都很重視電競發展我還是台南市電競發展委員會的主任委員現在"},{"start":3000.518,"end":3015.586,"text":"可是我覺得現在要顧及法律的這個定位跟行政手段的配合那所以不如在詢答後我們是不是暫緩相關這個法律案的審查那賴立委職權範圍內我們多多透過質詢預算提案監督這個運動部的在電競運動跟產業上的輔導這樣子或許有效率的多趙委在這邊我最後要請教部長有幾點第一個"},{"start":3028.832,"end":3031.776,"text":"就針對這個運動產業就電競產業的法規命令的部分你預計什麼時候要做修訂因為你的那個報告上我提及第二就你有規劃再邀集產官學的這個人士在運動部召開更大規模的這個產官學會議嗎"},{"start":3047.896,"end":3065.812,"text":"那討論應該用怎麼樣行政手段去支持所有的數位科技的這個運動那第三是運動部在收集這個今天的意見之後因為早上公聽會嘛那我們是不是會加以在運動部明年度的預算來呈現來編列支持數位科技運動這個項目 部長"},{"start":3067.774,"end":3087.903,"text":"跟委員您報告 不好意思因為時間到了是不是請他聽我書面提供資料 部長回答 不好意思因為時間已經到了那部長先回答嘛 我已經問完了是不是請書面提供資料這很簡單可以簡答啦好簡答好不好 謝謝趙偉那跟委員您報告那首先在法規命令的時候我們因為我們要這一個讓"},{"start":3089.544,"end":3116.025,"text":"電子競技更加完善是否給我們一點時間三個月完整的辦法我們可以來提出那我們一定會召開這個產官學的綜合座談這個肯定能做到那明年的年度預算目前我們已經編列3000萬的這個預算來支持這個電競產業是好謝謝謝謝部長所以稍微趕快審運動部的預算啦齁這個才是最重要的當務之急謝謝委員"},{"start":3119.052,"end":3142.151,"text":"謝謝委員 謝謝部長也跟疫警委員特別報告剛剛已經有確認醫事錄相關的預算案提案呢基本上是6月11 中午12時截止那後續都會開始排案請委員擔心的部分呢我們都會相對應的來處理還請委員不用擔心我們下一位諮詢的委員葛無軍葛委員"},{"start":3154.94,"end":3157.71,"text":"好 謝謝主席 有請李洋部長有請部長"},{"start":3164.508,"end":3186.621,"text":"委員您好部長好我想我是非常敬仰您那其實我的同事林一錦委員也是我非常佩服的一位委員他又是台南市這個電競的主委其實剛剛林一錦委員的發言已經點破我們今天為什麼要有這個電競基本法他有一句話大家可以回去聽他說沒有法你們要怎麼行政"},{"start":3188.072,"end":3211.65,"text":"所以事實上沒有電競基本法其實有時候行政機關希望能夠盡力的來補足來加強來協助很可能會沒有一個很明確的法規反而落入了我同樣有一塊錢啊我為什麼是給電競不是給其他的運動那今天早上"},{"start":3212.981,"end":3228.126,"text":"我一開始也已經點出來了全世界最應該要做電競基本法的就是中華民國因為全世界有八成的電競的產品周邊顯卡made in Taiwan"},{"start":3229.218,"end":3258.001,"text":"就是我們台灣隊嘛就是我們Team Taiwan嘛那我們Team Taiwan我們不挺台灣的電競這不是很可惜嗎所以我想第一是絕對不好意思林錦瑋我剛剛已經說我非常敬仰您了好不好尊重我一下時間暫停您如果回去看重播我剛剛說您講的那句話你沒有這樣說我可以向您道歉但是事實上您就是這樣說的那我們也是一致的嘛沒有法"},{"start":3259.022,"end":3273.342,"text":"行政機關如何行政這句話有錯嗎我們再請委員再尊重一下發言謝謝主席那我想再來關於錢也就是預算我們剛剛講的是法再來關於錢"},{"start":3275.984,"end":3297.963,"text":"我們可以看到其實剛剛羅廷偉召委也已經說了6月11號我們就排案來做審議整個過程我想大家都是盡力努力盡速的來進行但是運動部其實成立到現在去年本來的總預算是138億"},{"start":3301.28,"end":3326.321,"text":"後來你們提出的計劃是214億足足增加了76億部長你應該有一個概念嘛對不對對好那同時呢本來已經有進行的項目是可以沿用的新興的項目我們也在之前都抽出來讓運動部可以運作了也是好幾億對吧跟委員您補充那個"},{"start":3327.284,"end":3354.946,"text":"我們是不是有抽出新興計畫讓你們有部分的新興計畫可以運行了對不對跟委員您補充那是8.5億然後那個全民署的那邊確實還有對嘛8.5億是不是錢是錢嘛能執行的計畫加上能用的錢加起來其實我們也幫忙算過啦已經比之前能夠執行的預算更多啦所以我想所以您可以問清楚是不是嘛"},{"start":3356.673,"end":3381.247,"text":"是不是嘛其實就是比之前更多之前只有138億喔你們現在可動之的是大於138還是小於138您回答我就好剛委員您報告一定是大於的對嘛結果現在你說我們在講電競講說哇沒有錢了什麼都不能動了所以我們不要先來討論這個法我覺得到這裡我也很謝謝你啦也直接澄清了"},{"start":3381.747,"end":3406.554,"text":"之前138億就是前一個年度我們這相關的體育運動競技的預算今年能動之的早就已經大於這個數字了我想大家也希望能夠回歸到法治面我們來看最後一個我們講人的問題其實我今天非常感動我想部長你也很感動今天早上公聽會"},{"start":3408.188,"end":3429.037,"text":"我從來沒有一次啊 宮廷會啊我想要邀請這個產業專家哇 第一時間所有的宮廷會的代表都滿了都額滿了這代表什麼這代表什麼代表整個社會對於這個產業想要發聲哇 已經等不住忍不及了"},{"start":3430.787,"end":3452.901,"text":"所以我想所有人民熱切盼望的是我們就提供相關的法源的依據讓我們充滿了熱情充滿了專業的部會一起來推動進行有行政的空間所以我想這個我們希望回歸專業我們不要講政治口水"},{"start":3455.744,"end":3479.656,"text":"上週有拜讀了您對羅昭偉的電競基本法的說明我們非常仔細的閱讀了就發現其實你們不是覺得電競不重要而是說已經有國民體育法已經有運動產業發展條例已經有規範所以不需要這部法案電競的法請問部長就您所知"},{"start":3481.328,"end":3487.611,"text":"我們不管是棒球我們也要打泡菜我們電競我們也要打泡菜請問一下韓國有沒有跟我們的運產條例一樣就整體的運動產業發展的相關法規有嗎"},{"start":3500.284,"end":3518.883,"text":"韓國有沒有跟我們類似運產條例一樣整體的運動產業發展的法規跟委員您報告我如果沒記錯你早上公聽會有說到這個電競的促進法是很好厲害了這個我們就很專業我剛剛也沒講錯運動產業振興法它這個是Sports Industry Promotion Act"},{"start":3521.886,"end":3526.19,"text":"那韓國有這種整體產業的那既然有這樣整體產業的那韓國還有電子競技促進法就您剛剛講的這個"},{"start":3532.214,"end":3557.114,"text":"一心有整體產業促進啊為什麼還要為特地的電子競技來做一個促進的法那您有認為韓國這個電競法話則天足嗎您有覺得說我們要替韓國的其他運動產業抱屈我們這個什麼推桿啦 匹克球也要不要有啊要這樣嗎所以很明顯啦電競如此韓國的電競如此成功"},{"start":3558.235,"end":3579.846,"text":"其中一個就是來自於該項政策的支持就是說我除了整體產業的支持我也還有獨立的電競的促進法所以其實對我們看到的對手已經這樣做了我們這樣子來討論跟前進並沒有問題啊所以現行已有規範其實真的不是理由啦部長你可以同意嗎"},{"start":3580.748,"end":3598.256,"text":"我想跟委員您報告那當然在韓國確實是這樣做那首先我們還是要強調本部對於電子競技的發展我們肯定是支持的對我剛出過了對所以當然在現有的其實已經有產業的條例了我們就不能有電競的法規嗎"},{"start":3600.097,"end":3618.675,"text":"首先我們還是對於這個電子競技基本法這個基本法比較 我們當然對於電子競技是支持的支持嘛 所以我時間有限啦我不想讓這個主席困擾你太快了 太快了想問部長 您知道運動產業發展條例第一條寫什麼嗎"},{"start":3623.139,"end":3651.789,"text":"公委員您報告那當然我手邊沒有資料好沒關係我們來看第一條我們可以一起念一下就是為促進運動產業之發展營造運動產業良好經營環境積極提升競爭力與國際接軌並為國人建構優質運動休閒環境特制定本條例後面還有一句我留給部長部長你幫我們念一下好不好我念三分之二你念一點點可以的話"},{"start":3652.93,"end":3659.997,"text":"當然運動產業之發展依本條例之規定其他法律規定有較本條例更有利者從其規定哇"},{"start":3661.412,"end":3679.036,"text":"這個坑將有力啊謝謝部長所以其實啊已經非常明確了你們擔心說啊這個運動條例早就幫你們排除了運產條例你們擔心說啊這個會有這個衝突啊已經有了為什麼還要再有沒這個問題運產條例第一條就講了"},{"start":3683.038,"end":3707.859,"text":"如果有其他法律規定比既有的條例更有利的從其規定也就是說電競的發展如果能夠有一條電競的能夠有一部電競的法案專屬的法案而且是上位的法案它比既有的產業條例更有利那它就是可以從其規定嘛"},{"start":3708.479,"end":3727.647,"text":"所以我們今天這樣的公聽會的安排我們今天這樣的詢答非常有意義啊非常有意義啊那這個也希望這個部長啊您既然支持那我們就一起來努力不然這種照既有規定已經有的我們就不需要再額外再做"},{"start":3728.027,"end":3748.604,"text":"那這樣既有規定本來體育署也做得很好啊我們不需要體育部運動部真的不是這個概念所以希望我們真的就是來論事啦那另外也確認一下因為很多民眾擔憂啊就說這個運動幣啊每年發放的方式啊哇百轉千回啊"},{"start":3750.904,"end":3767.409,"text":"這個一下子又是有年齡限制一下子又分數不同啊還有金額不一樣的那請問這個2027還有運動幣的規劃嗎剛委員您報告目前有然後預計最近正在思考是否可以將這個運動幣轉為這個可能在"},{"start":3771.07,"end":3787.246,"text":"走路的部分可能或加碼之前羅志強委員也有提供相關的意見希望這個發放的標準有一個客觀依據啊不然變成說到底是多少錢多少人有沒有年齡限制就變得不太確定了那"},{"start":3788.328,"end":3805.589,"text":"是請說跟委員補充那當然去年當然是這個青春動之源那轉為運動病也是因應我們現在台灣這個超高齡社會的部分然後當然希望更多人能夠參與運動的這一個全民運動的部分最後一題啦跟委員說聲抱歉時間"},{"start":3806.99,"end":3834.805,"text":"好我們有點關注那個5月11號你們有一個特定體育團體交流的座談會你們發新聞稿說這個座談會是要做這個制度的討論說要做制度的討論優化協會治理規範重塑協會治理文化部長你回去看一下你們的會議記錄好不好裡面通篇跟這個詞完全搭不上關係全部在說感謝協會我們要給你更多錢"},{"start":3837.546,"end":3864.592,"text":"這個讓大家我直接因為你皺眉頭唸給你聽啊未備戰亞裔最後階段這是主席結論協會如有新增培訓軍費需求請發函向我們提報計劃第二段的開頭外界對於協會運作有批評但事實上仍有許多積極推動業務這個看起來我們覺得有點兜不起來所以您回去瞭解一下該有開這個會能夠去重塑"},{"start":3866.066,"end":3883.532,"text":"協會治理的文化優化協會治理的規範就要做不開了一個會然後裡面通篇通篇是在協會在洗臉體育部我看到是這樣在洗臉運動部他說你這個怎麼沒做你那怎麼沒做我這錢怎麼沒有到底誰在治理誰我們是有點看不懂"},{"start":3884.312,"end":3905.23,"text":"所以我想這個訊息麻煩您回去理解一下那我們下一次有機會一起來討論我想所有的運動我們一視投人所有的協會我們希望都有優良的治理重視我們選手的權益好不好那也讓台灣的不管任何一項競技運動都發揚光大好不好謝謝部長謝謝委員部長會後再回應謝謝謝謝委員不好意思"},{"start":3916.688,"end":3927.515,"text":"謝謝下一位有請陳秀寶委員謝主席 請李部長有請部長"},{"start":3932.489,"end":3948.17,"text":"委員你好部長好部長本席在上週的詢詢裡面就已經有提到其實單一的運動項目呢定力基本法與禮儀法都不合它不是促進法它不是條例它不是辦法它是一個基本法"},{"start":3948.57,"end":3966.266,"text":"所以其實我想運動項目這麼多元如果就單一一個運動項目來定基本法對其他運動項目是不公平的而且也會有讀後電競運動項目的疑慮其實這個議題我們在我自己在選區有很多鄉親也非常關心他們會問我說為什麼就電競"},{"start":3969.729,"end":3984.76,"text":"來定基本法為什麼棒球不定基本法大家都喜歡棒球啊那你們部長很擅長的羽球大家也很喜歡那為什麼他不定基本法所以這個部分在民眾的心中已經有疑慮為什麼要讀後電競那本席這邊也要強調其實我們在運產條例已經很明確的將電競納入運動項目也適用運動產業相關的租稅優惠以及產業補助"},{"start":3994.167,"end":4018.066,"text":"那電競同時也列入了替代役的項目即使學校也將電競列為特殊科目也納入了升學加分的這個項目那除了這些之外運動部也考量電競運動確實是新興運動的項目要研議相關的這個推廣的辦法我想請教部長你這邊是不是可以說明一下目前你們的辦法內容有哪些是針對電競推廣有哪些面向"},{"start":4018.926,"end":4031.972,"text":"跟委員您報告那當然在這個電子競技運動的部分除了現行的這個國體法以及這個發展條例那是不是詳細的部分我們請產業司司長來補充那你是不是司長快速的補充一下"},{"start":4032.925,"end":4058.533,"text":"是各位您報告那針對電競運動的部分我們大概是以數位科技運動這個項目來統稱然後我們所針對的那個獎勵以及補助辦法我們希望針對賽事的一個規劃人才的培訓產業的輔導環境的建置等這些整個電子競技產業所需要的一個各個面向我們都希望透過這樣子的一個行政命令來做提供必要的協助"},{"start":4059.033,"end":4087.837,"text":"所以在賽事方面在人才培育 在產業以及各方面我們都已經有要有研議的辦法來推廣是嗎其實本席非常支持電競運動的推廣但是我認為說訂定辦法才是最合適的方式不需要也不適合訂專法來導致有更多民眾的疑慮也衍生更多的問題喔這個部分還是要提清就是我們不是不支持電競但是這個該如何用"},{"start":4088.597,"end":4099.024,"text":"以我们运动部的量能去推广而不是说我们着眼在把它定定基本法而衍生其他的问题我觉得说这是大家要好好的来讨论"},{"start":4118.217,"end":4135.245,"text":"首先本席這邊要建議運動部我們115年的預算中有針對資通訊的管理業務編列了1億多的預算那這裡面有包含資通訊的安全管理、思安維護以及落點掃描所以我們是不是可以建立一個機制就是定期做偵測"},{"start":4136.365,"end":4148.578,"text":"我們除了要求地方政府做定期的檢視之外運動部也應該對自己的網站有自主偵測這個機制我們既然有經費有資源本席相信說我們來定一個這樣的機制應該是不難吧公務員報告我們會來這樣做"},{"start":4152.687,"end":4167.277,"text":"因為別人的束縛不能是運動部來背但是運動部也應該研議對於我們資通訊的維護可以更全面好謝謝部長接下來要跟部長討論的是關於運動外交的政策運動部在成立的時候其實受到很多的期待"},{"start":4167.677,"end":4185.647,"text":"那其中之一就是運動外交我們期待透過運動外交讓國際能夠看見台灣舉例來說中華民國無論所大使劉伯鈞就一直致力在運動外交及運動性品的這個領域那在運動部成立的時候呢就初期劉大使也信心滿滿的認為說我們運動外交會有更具體更積極的改變但"},{"start":4190.409,"end":4208.717,"text":"甚至說不只是運動期待有更多的這個合作共同價值的合作但是在現在我想劉大使是非常明顯的感到失望其中運動部的網站在推廣運動外交政策說明說具體提出會促進女子運動外交部長甚至寧也見證簽署了布萊頓宣言這些都顯示說從性"},{"start":4212.719,"end":4237.288,"text":"別平權來切入是我國推動運動外交的這個關鍵的管道但是到目前為止其實運動外交事務我們都被侷限在出國比賽還是說是一季訓練去友邦訓練或是比賽那運動部呢甚至你們在業務報告裡面把駐台大使來拜會也算是你們運動外交的KPI這個似乎錯把運動外交你們侷限在競技外交"},{"start":4238.568,"end":4259.24,"text":"覺得是非常的可惜啦所以我這邊要跟部長您討論其實很多有價值性的互動是可以透過運動作為連結台灣與國際的可能那我們從性別平權這個來切入運動外交實施是很適合現在台灣的優勢那在國際上現在最具代表性的運動性平平台就是隸屬在國際奧會下的IWG就是國際婦女與運動工作小組"},{"start":4264.403,"end":4289.794,"text":"那這個圖片是IWG發布的宣傳今年劉大使也受邀來做經驗分享這是國際在運動平權推動上對劉大使的肯定但是卻不是對我們政府的肯定在他的分享的經驗之中如果沒有運動部的角色這是多麼可惜的一件事過去我們曾經有機會去申辦IWG四年一次的盛會但是我們卻錯過了部長"},{"start":4291.795,"end":4302.463,"text":"如果台灣是有機會申辦到這個世界性的運動性平活動會是增進台灣在國際間能進度的這個大好機會也會是運動部重視運動性平這個實際的作為部長您認為呢"},{"start":4306.986,"end":4332.643,"text":"我非常認同委員您剛剛講的除了我們競技運動的外交那當然如果我們可以爭取到IWG的這個峰會的話那我們當然也非常願意來積極爭取比如說像最近這個國際奧會就是我們中華奧會這邊來申請到的這個TAFISA這個年會在之後可以來在台灣可以來舉辦我想這也是我們一直在做的事情不只是競技運動外交還有我們這個全民運動的這個外交我們想說這個都是我們會來做的"},{"start":4333.604,"end":4338.926,"text":"好 謝謝部長您的認同與支持所以本席在這邊希望部長您具體的承諾會積極的協助爭取2034年IWG峰會在台舉辦因為如果要爭取我們在今年就要啟動籌備在2027年就應該有籌備辦公室的成立2028年要提交規劃書所以本席希望部長您可以給本席實質的負責的承諾"},{"start":4360.836,"end":4375.531,"text":"也希望運動部呢針對如何協助實質的協助中華奧會爭取IWG峰會呢一個月之內交一份規劃給本辦可以嗎可以那部長您承諾了也願意實質上來協助是嗎"},{"start":4377.032,"end":4383.354,"text":"IWG峰會這邊2034我們會積極來申辦是本席要再次強調運動部你們這邊有編列推廣國際運動事務的運算那運動外交部應該被侷限在競技運動那競技運動雖然是比較激勵人心而且受到民眾的喜愛但是運動的價值跟期待不應該只是在競技運動才能看得見"},{"start":4400.421,"end":4420.732,"text":"所以透過運動讓世界看見台灣,這是賴總統的宣示,也是運動部施政的方針我希望部長跟我們整個運動部的同仁繼續努力好嗎?公務員報告,那首先在上任之後我們就簽署這個IWG的這一個見證我們這件事情我想IWG也是我們一直積極想要爭取的事情那如果在2034我們有機會來爭取到的話,我想運動部我們絕對會積極來推動"},{"start":4424.834,"end":4439.356,"text":"謝謝部長 那請你一定要督促同仁 其實在今年就要啟動籌備了在2027就要成立籌備辦公室 相關的期程你們一定要具體的規劃而且照這樣的期程實質的來協助中華奧會好嗎"},{"start":4441.797,"end":4463.232,"text":"呃正確如何這個來處理是不是請這個同仁之後提供這一個期程以及報告來提供給委員您呢好謝謝部長謝謝主席好謝謝委員在會後再提供資料喔謝謝下一位郭育行委員發言"},{"start":4472.553,"end":4473.984,"text":"有请部长有请部长"},{"start":4479.619,"end":4504.474,"text":"委員您好部長辛苦了今天早上雖然我們開了這個公聽會那我們也聽到各界的聲音那我想我們再次的表達我們是非常支持也非常的就是願意給予資源來支持這個電競的產業的發展這個是無庸置疑大家共同的一個方向那只是說要不要用所謂的基本法這樣子的一個上位法"},{"start":4505.394,"end":4525.902,"text":"來做這樣子的一個等於是用母法只是一個象徵性的一個母法或者是一個名稱上的一個堅持那我想這個部分可能我還是存保留的一個態度那我想我們應該要更加的去討論到是應該是如何建立機制那麼如何利用我們的一個制度來做一個"},{"start":4526.502,"end":4546.155,"text":"最強力的一個支持在電競上的一個發展這個才是我們的這個終極目標那首先我想要提到一個比較根本的一個問題因為很多人其實在談電競在談產業在談賽事然後在談獎牌但是電競跟基本上我們的傳統的運動最大的一個不同就是"},{"start":4546.795,"end":4561.051,"text":"不管是棒球也好籃球也好或者是其他的運動一些項目也好他不會因為一家公司他決定停辦這個他就會消失但是電競不太一樣早上其實我在宮廷會已經提過了"},{"start":4561.912,"end":4576.969,"text":"今天我们所看得到的不管是电竞的比赛不管是联赛要怎么办规则要怎么改或者是我要不要继续推动或者是所有的决定权其实都在于游戏或者是电竞公司的原厂的手上"},{"start":4577.429,"end":4604.539,"text":"那其實我也特別提到其實電競是高度依賴國際的一個IP那這個部分呢其實我們也沒有辦法去主導它國際賽事的一個規則所以我們在制度上是不是應該更加的要保留彈性但是問題是如果今天我們用了一個所謂的基本法來做這樣子的一個制度上的設定那之後碰到這個需要做調整需要彈性的來做更改"},{"start":4605.319,"end":4629.526,"text":"因為大家都知道這個速度很快啊我們是不是會等於沒有給自己留一個後補您的看法各位您報告那就如同您說的這一個電子競技運動其實是非常特殊的那其實這一個在遊戲這邊如果有相對應的如果更改的話其實對每位選手來講其實變化非常大那他不如同這個傳統運動比如像籃球棒球"},{"start":4630.306,"end":4651.529,"text":"這樣的運動它其實大部分的規則其實訂定的非常的明確而且更動的可能性比較不多那我想電子競技運動也都是委員您以及我們運動部都非常努力來推動那當然我們現行來講我們希望按照現行的法規然後再增設這個行政命令來支持我們的電子競技的發展"},{"start":4651.789,"end":4667.962,"text":"好 所以在這樣子一個情況之下到底我們的運動部對於所謂的電競的一個政策的定位到底是什麼我們可能真的首先就要先考慮清楚我們到底是要成為所謂的這個產業的主導者還是要成為人才的支持者"},{"start":4668.762,"end":4684.273,"text":"那为什么我这样说呢因为如果我们没有办法去主导所谓的这样子的一个市场那其实我们应该做的就是要建立所谓的人才支持的一个体系那当然在运动部现在我们有没有掌握目前台湾电竞人口和人才的一个状况"},{"start":4685.779,"end":4713.874,"text":"根捕委員您報告那真的確實參與電子競技這個項目的這個部分的話如果是我們電競培訓的選手現在是33位那當然這個全台灣的職業隊伍選手常態大概在80到100人那當然如果參與的人數是非常多因為民眾也可以來參與比如說像我所了解的比如說像T0的這個英雄聯盟那參與人口是非常多的那這個不計其數"},{"start":4714.855,"end":4733.747,"text":"那平均的这个职业的生涯大概有多久或者是说这个有没有退役之后有多少人是转任所谓的教练或者是赛品相关的一个工作那有多少人是真正离开了这样子的一个产业如果说这样子的一个数字其实是联动的是没有办法目前还没有办法"},{"start":4734.127,"end":4758.067,"text":"很精準的去掌握的話那我們要思考的方向是這些人才如果退役之後他們要往哪裡去那第二個問題這個當然第一個問題我就留給運動部來思考因為今天時間有限第二個問題我要談到的是未成年選手的一個保護那我想這個教育要怎麼兼顧那麼長時間的一個訓練他們的健康管理到底誰要來負責那麼還有心理上的壓力或者是面臨如果"},{"start":4758.387,"end":4777.652,"text":"到時候網路上的一個霸凌誰要來提供支持合約上的糾紛誰要來協助那麼目前我們運動部有沒有建立所謂的未成年電競選手的一個保護機制那麼包含我剛剛提到的教育的銜接心理上的支持還有健康的管理還有未成年選手他們的一個保障的權益我想我們不能只"},{"start":4777.932,"end":4789.716,"text":"依靠就是我們要這些選手拿牌當然我們也希望他們能夠平安健康的長大這個第二個部分我們提供給運動部來做參考第三個問題我想要問的就是剛剛說的電競國際賽事的不確定性"},{"start":4792.418,"end":4821.95,"text":"我举个例子来讲这次名古屋的亚运出现一个非常特殊的一个状况那么格斗类的项目被整合成所谓的竞技武术团体包含快打旋风啦铁拳啦然后拳皇啦三种不同的游戏选手必须要共同去竞逐一面奖牌这也象征着未来的这个选项已经不是所谓的单一的项目的一个培训它有可能是跨项目的一个整合那面对像这种所谓的跨游戏跨系统的一个团队赛事我们的国训中心有没有"},{"start":4822.37,"end":4849.571,"text":"面對這樣子的一個狀況來建立所謂的因應的一個訓練的一個機制還是說我們只要把各項目的第一名集合起來就可以去參賽了這個部分我們有掌握嗎跟委員您報告那首先我想這個是非常重要的議題那其實像三個不同的遊戲種類合成一個獎牌我想這個就我所知過去應該沒有這樣那我想這部分也是我們未來國訓中心可以來精進的部分"},{"start":4850.011,"end":4877.924,"text":"好 那最後一個問題是剛剛我提到了這個電競的項目它未來的變動速度應該會非常的快它今天也許它不是所謂的主流的項目但明天它有可能變成正式的競賽的一個項目所以我想請教一下這個運動部現在有沒有建立長期追蹤的跟預判的一個機制還是每一次我都要等到國際賽事公佈之後我才來開始選拔這是第三個問題但是因為今天時間的關係我相信等一下這個主席很快就要站起來"},{"start":4878.624,"end":4899.353,"text":"不過剛剛葛如居委員也用了多餘的一些時間啊我也想要一點點時間留給我好吧我想呢台灣有沒有辦法能夠決定這個國際的遊戲市場的一個走向這是一個非常大的一個落後再來我也沒有辦法控制遊戲原廠的商業決策這就是我剛剛說的因為所有的"},{"start":4899.813,"end":4921.762,"text":"全力是主導在這些所謂的國際的IP的這些公司的手上我們就算定了一個所謂的基本法我還是要在這裡要提供給我們的運動部第一我希望能夠建立所謂的跨部會的單一的窗口我們來協助所謂的這個國際的參賽跟簽證還有一些行政的一些事務我想這個部分我們應該是可以來做"},{"start":4922.242,"end":4944.017,"text":"第二个我们要怎么样来建立电竞选手全职牙的一个支持的系统那么包含我刚刚提到的未成年者的一个保护教育的衔接心理的健康还有退役之后他们的转型机制转职的部分第三怎么建立国际电竞事项的一个动态追踪跟风险的一个预警从选训的制度"},{"start":4944.437,"end":4960.889,"text":"走向所謂的動態的管理那這個三個面向我提供給運動部來做參考再來剛剛葛如君委員他有特別提到所有的運動都應該要一視同仁但是如果這一視同仁下去籃球應該也要有個基本法"},{"start":4961.609,"end":4979.814,"text":"與求您自己本身是得牌的選手要不要也來用你的基本法所有的項目如果都比照這樣子辦理將來我們的法治是不是非常的容易變成所謂的破碎化再加上我的所有的主管機關變成在整個所有的風險我們是邊緣啊"},{"start":4981.934,"end":5001.261,"text":"他們怎麼銜接怎麼跨部會我想這個不是早上辦的公聽會下午我就來進行逐條能夠解決的問題另外今天公聽會所有的意見都還沒有完整的彙整的時候我們等一下要進入逐條其實我也非常的擔憂好那在這裡還是謝謝部長辛苦了好謝謝好謝謝"},{"start":5007.227,"end":5030.219,"text":"謝謝郭委員的建議我們都有聽到謝謝您的建議那也跟委員特別報告之前也是有慣例上午公聽會下午審查法案所以這並不是唯一一次那但是委員的建議我們還是會斟酌謝謝委員的建議下一位蔡春籌委員"},{"start":5042.612,"end":5066.431,"text":"主席好 有請部長有請部長委員您好部長好 部長很辛苦看你做了一個早上一早上聆聽公聽會的一個過程可以看出我們部長對於這個電競是相當關心"},{"start":5071.115,"end":5082.164,"text":"在以下我的執行跟你的一個交流我們輕鬆一點不用太激進首先我要問一下就是部長"},{"start":5085.325,"end":5111.052,"text":"前日子那個黃蓮欣這個執行長有到韓國做一個拜訪拜訪了科技業之外還拜訪了一位知名的運動選手而且跟他一起照相這個部長你知道嗎你知道是誰嗎Faker那他應該不只跟Faker拍照我記得如果那張照片應該是有蠻多位電競選手"},{"start":5113.095,"end":5140.151,"text":"是 所以我們輕鬆一點 這個問的都是時事啦那我還要請問部長他是哪一個項目的選手英雄聯盟請問一下部長你有打過嗎有 我剛剛有講英雄聯盟通常在電競運動裡面來講應該是T0那其實是非常多人玩的因為我之前也有玩過英雄聯盟 我想"},{"start":5141.311,"end":5166.711,"text":"這個部分飛殼就等於在英雄聯盟裡面就如同傳奇般的這個人那當然很多人稱呼為神是好那我再問部長那我們這一次呢民國烏亞印有多少的電子競技的這個項目大概有幾個項目總共應該是我們台灣派出去的應該是8個那這個項目裡面總共有幾個項目"},{"start":5169.731,"end":5188.981,"text":"我們這個電競總共有幾個項目?民谷、亞運應該是1111個項目,那目前我們已經有要推派出去比賽的有多少個項目?或是多少的選手有多少個項目?有11個項目,那我們大概我們台灣呢派了多少個項目的選手要出去比賽?"},{"start":5190.862,"end":5207.896,"text":"跟委員您報告總共的話還沒有確定因為正確的民國亞運的這個最後的報名期限是7月1號那當然現在還有很多的這個項目正在審議那當然還有取得參賽資格的部分那目前來講是應該是兩個已經完成審議了所以現在還在審拔當中是嗎"},{"start":5212.281,"end":5228.436,"text":"部長我問了這麼多問題不是在考你事實上因為這個問題我也不熟悉所以我們是在做互相的一個交流互相的學習電子競技它是橫跨了運動還有科技跟文化"},{"start":5229.896,"end":5254.169,"text":"對新一代人輕人來說對他們是一個很大的影響力在這個基礎之上我們不但要一起來學習更希望能夠迎頭趕上在一個國際水準所以我們不要在這個新興的一個項目來做一個切息那我要請問陳校部長你對電子競技這樣的一個發展你的態度是什麼你的態度"},{"start":5255.169,"end":5282.064,"text":"跟委員您報告我早上在公聽會委員您有參與那我們當然不管是本部的立場還是我們都支持電子競技的發展那當然就如同我剛剛講的就是在明年的預算編列我們也已經編列這個3000萬的部分那我們當然希望說就如同早上委員吳委員也有提供過就是我覺得過往在這個部分這個體育署跟運動部我想真的是如同委員在指導的確實有點慢了那我們"},{"start":5282.944,"end":5302.404,"text":"我想這是我們要改進的部分那在電子競技我本人自己也非常的重視這件事情上面所以其實在上任之後其實我們有邀集電競選手來開會那當然不管是在選手開會還是今天參與的公聽會我想我們運動部都有更進一步的了解到電競運動這件事情對我們的發展的重要性"},{"start":5305.667,"end":5333.268,"text":"也如同委員您所說的這是運動部跟各個委員對於電競產業運動這件事情的發展的這個同樣的看法好那我再問問那個部長因為部長對於那個選手不管是兒童全新的一個前面的一個發展部長你都相當的一個重視那我要請問就是說兒童對於學生還有兒童對於成名電動電玩還是"},{"start":5335.651,"end":5339.746,"text":"電信信任是否要有一個一定的一個界定和指引"},{"start":5342.054,"end":5364.845,"text":"我想這是今天早上公聽會也有提到的我們也比較擔心的是在電玩跟電競的訓練的定義這一點上面我想還是要比較明確因為畢竟就如同這個我們運動一樣就是在每一天每一週會有這個時間來限制我想這個成名電玩跟電競的訓練我想還是我們需要來去定義"},{"start":5367.146,"end":5382.352,"text":"因為我看今天早上家長聯盟的家長對於孩子的一個學習不管是競技的一個學習或者他課業他也一直在要求就是說運動部能夠對這些競技的選手能夠做一個適當的一個輔導我想我們對於選手的一個保護是一定會做到位的"},{"start":5392.036,"end":5404.147,"text":"那最後呢我要跟部長就是交流就是說最近呢我的辦公室呢有許多新興運動的一個陳情那感謝這個運動部同仁也有積極的來協助啦譬如說我們有我們也期待很多新興運動會有很好的結果譬如說無人機的一個足球還有"},{"start":5414.477,"end":5443.897,"text":"VMX競速賽這些運動的特點都是剛剛在起步而已還有許多的一個交流賽跟推廣但是我們許多的一個法規跟辦法是根據既有的運動賽是一個項目沒有辦法同步的來跟上所以這個新興運動的一個發展總執行的時候左院長也有說過說部長你是來表現的不是來表態的"},{"start":5445.538,"end":5456.046,"text":"因此我想跟部長跟運動部的同仁一起能夠來打破既有的框架對新興運動的發展盡可能來提供協助讓很想參賽的選手可以有這樣的一個機會"},{"start":5464.752,"end":5482.907,"text":"然後想讓他們能夠披上國家對的一個戰袍的繩索能夠藉由這樣一個體育上的表現讓世界看見台灣根文您補充就是在115年度我們有編列0.75億也就是7500萬的部分來審查認定的新興級極限運動項目來辦理國內推廣活動競賽以及相關輔導工作"},{"start":5494.436,"end":5509.307,"text":"這個部分我們運動部跟全民運動署絕對會來好好的對於新興及極限運動來去支持我想每一個運動就如同我們運動部一直在強調每一個運動都是我們應該去重視所以我們也才會訂立出這個新興及極限運動"},{"start":5511.368,"end":5532.036,"text":"表達出我們對於每一個項目的重視我想每一個項目都有它的獨特性以及重要性我想這也是我們運動部升格的最主要原因就是可以提供每一位選手每一個項目可以來最好的照顧我想這點上面我也跟委員您這個有溝通過我們希望說能夠讓選手在不管是退役後的輔導"},{"start":5533.096,"end":5553.168,"text":"還是在參與這個運動的過程中可以有更健全的方式來提供他們無後顧之用我想過去身為運動員的我以及委員您我想這都是我們一起來努力的方向我們共同努力的好 那謝謝部長好 以上謝謝委員好 謝謝委員 謝謝部長我們"},{"start":5563.903,"end":5583.448,"text":"陳培鈺委員發言完後休息十分鐘下一位委員吳思耀委員好現在主席有請部長那個有請部長"},{"start":5590.363,"end":5606.561,"text":"部长大家都辛苦了今天非常多跨部会的次长一起来练习开宗明义每项运动都同等重要但是如果为单一项目来立法而且是宪法未接的基本法"},{"start":5607.242,"end":5635.989,"text":"他不只有失公平他还会造成资源的排挤甚至可能造成跟其他法规的竞合所以我认为支持电竞发展跟要立电竞基本法是两件事我们要理性来面对但是呢预算反应政策没有预算万万不能已经下礼拜要过端午节了五四摇华龙周二十年了"},{"start":5637.045,"end":5655.735,"text":"每年要過端午節我真的都是感受很深因為年已經過半了那可能到中秋節我們總預算都還沒審總預算到現在延到285天已經是年過半了該交的作業還是要交"},{"start":5657.295,"end":5678.266,"text":"剛剛在野黨的委員說因為有一些新興計畫另外用其他的方式來補強先行動之就合理化立法院可以不審預算嗎這個邏輯我完全不接受我們來看看同樣教育文化委員會兩位交委武力華委員所排的教育部的預算很大"},{"start":5679.907,"end":5703.172,"text":"很龐大5月18号审完了中研院的预算5月21号审完了和安会的预算5月25号也审查完毕我们都在赶进度补进度该交的作业就是要写可是我非常遗憾我们的总预算"},{"start":5704.471,"end":5712.025,"text":"文化部國科會運動部跟故宮都還沒有進入實質的審查所以"},{"start":5713.228,"end":5739.688,"text":"如果預算不省影響是全面性的下一頁剛剛也有在野黨委員說因為可以先行動之部分的預算所以說運動部的預算再慢慢來沒有關係我整理出來部長因為預算還沒有省即便扣除可動之的新興預算可以來急用但是最終被卡的預算還有30.21億"},{"start":5743.185,"end":5754.515,"text":"這個數字正確吧這是我跟你們所取的資料所以還有30.21億的運動部的預算包括優化全民運動賽會環境7.55億包括專項訓練場地檢疫運動場館的設施興建整建4.07億等等"},{"start":5765.044,"end":5794.079,"text":"包括電競在內的新興極限等全民運動相關活動也1.15億如果預算不省我真的要講一句比較重的話如果預算不省我們立了電競基本法立了棒球基本法立了網球基本法立了100個基本法都沒有用啦因為你沒有錢做事嘛部長你同意我的說法嗎預算是不是眼前最重要的事"},{"start":5795.202,"end":5812.419,"text":"跟委員報告當然首先我們還是要尊重議程他的這個招委的但是站在你的立場你最急的是不是趕快審預算啊我們當然運動部的角度當然希望能夠審完預算讓這個所有同仁知道我們如何動之我們的政策才可以落地嘛"},{"start":5813.28,"end":5832.355,"text":"對不對 如果預算再不省30.21億就不得了全民運動也好 競技運動也罷 全部都遭殃所以今天呢 早上公聽會 下午來排審電競基本法 我好希望今天下午排審的就是運動部的預算啊下一頁"},{"start":5835.458,"end":5856.225,"text":"我們要把問題意識釐清清楚支持電競發展跟立基本法是兩件事這也是今天早上公聽會多數人的意見電競界的代表不管產業界或是運動界大家都認為國家要跨部會來支持電競發展沒有人反對但是回到法制面"},{"start":5857.305,"end":5883.164,"text":"基本法是憲法未接是不是要用一個基本法來支持電競法界的意見就是差不應當他會造成排擠會造成法律的競合即便是支持電競產業發展的這些好朋友們他們也認為基本法要立馬只要政策能夠做好他們對於基本法也沒有堅持這是我今天早上聆聽到的意見部長您是不是也這樣解讀"},{"start":5884.165,"end":5898.818,"text":"跟委員您報告那上午在公聽會的其中其實就如同委員您講的其實大家對於支持電競發展不管是委員您還是這個各位委員在早上的公聽會的部分那其實但對立基本法這個部分我想"},{"start":5899.378,"end":5927.046,"text":"是沒有共識的甚至大家認為不需要立基本法只要整合跨部會的用一個辦法大家做一個或是比較跨部會的計畫其實就是眼前的當務之急下業基本法是什麼我還是要不厭其煩的再說一次基本法的高位階是訂定基本國策展現憲政具體化的高度它是整合政策工具"},{"start":5927.366,"end":5955.489,"text":"延伸政策的廣度而且謀求一個政策的永續性但是他都要回應的是憲法基本國策之不足下一頁台灣到現在13部基本法我看到文化部次長在這裡我們拼了命的完成了文化基本法是希望文化主流化可以在各部會導入我們上會期完成了AI基本法是希望各部會都有AI的思維"},{"start":5956.75,"end":5972.451,"text":"但是電競需要跨部會的整合不代表就是用基本法這一個方向時間到了下一頁我快速的講在下一頁我們跨部會支持電競發展是政策的現在進行式"},{"start":5973.693,"end":5997.092,"text":"2017年修正了運動產業發展條例就把電競可以作為一個高度重視的運動項目2018電競也納入了全大運2021年電競納入了全運會這都彰顯運動部對於電競發展的支持在下一頁最後了中央地方也都在努力呀"},{"start":5998.254,"end":6016.334,"text":"電競人才的培育還成立了電競基地不管是在校園端教育部給補助或是地方政府新北也成立了一個電競基地但是使用率還要提升這都代表中央地方政府都在努力來推動電競所以說呢最後"},{"start":6017.56,"end":6043.497,"text":"不应当为利而利基本法我们在运产条例的授权下产业辅导的讲注办法在做我们在奖励租税的优惠也在做我们在从业人员的支持运动员的职业发展都回应在运动产业发展条例第四条里头其实细看运产条例第四条我们可以发现我们对于电子竞技类是高度的up"},{"start":6044.077,"end":6072.395,"text":"高度的promote因為看看運動產業發展條例第四條他沒有針對單一運動項目去載明他載明的是運動的服務運動的旅遊運動表演運動保健運動場館的營運運動用品的製造營售等等其實電子競技已經高度的在運動產業發展條例的第四條被高度的highline"},{"start":6073.015,"end":6090.449,"text":"所以我再一次回到我的初衷我们支持电竞发展但是我们做政策我们不要用错误的方式造成了负面可能的法律的竞合问题我想如果电竞基本法我们今天快速的仓促的逐条的去通过了"},{"start":6091.169,"end":6115.748,"text":"我想棒球界、羽球界、各界人士我剛Cue這個文化部可能舞蹈界也要來建築界也要來我們可能視覺藝術界也要來對不對我們的這個表演藝術界都要來人人都要基本法我希望我們支持電競但是不要用錯誤的方式造成行政部門難以執行的摯愛之處好 我們繼續來論述我們的觀點好 謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":6121.65,"end":6136.545,"text":"好 謝謝委員 謝謝部長非常感謝吳委員的詢問委員的建議我們都會吸收大家一起來探討下一位葉元之委員"},{"start":6154.286,"end":6154.829,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩請運動部長 謝謝有請部長"},{"start":6162.071,"end":6184.633,"text":"委員您好部長好今天大家都非常的重視這個電競產業2012年的時候台灣在這個電競產業有很高的成就那個時候我們的隊伍是世界第一所以帶動了整體的這個電競潮可是很可惜的就是經過這十幾年的發展我們現在的因為名次已經不如以往了所以整個產業"},{"start":6186.394,"end":6210.56,"text":"受到的關注度還有贊助商的贊助的金額都很明顯的下滑了所以如果有機會的話當然會希望說是不是讓台灣這個電競產業又可以重回過去的榮景所以我相信召委排這個目的就是在這邊因為我們曾經因為電競得到驕傲那我們是不是可以重回過去的驕傲那我不知道部長你有沒有發現像有台北市有一個電競的場館你知道"},{"start":6213.041,"end":6241.111,"text":"最近越南人去看的越來越多了我不知道你知不知道這個現象台北市有一個場館是這樣那你可能不知道你知道為什麼嗎因為越南人他們現在在電競的比賽越來越厲害他們名次越來越強所以帶動整個越南人對於電競產業非常關注所以台灣的台北市的比賽越南人來看非常多可見啊我們要怎麼樣讓電競產業被大家關注就是我們的"},{"start":6242.592,"end":6263.705,"text":"名次或者是我們的比賽成績可以往前提前自然而然我覺得資源就會來了啦那現在有幾個問題跟可能也不是運動部可以解決的那有相關部會的話就請相關部會上來第一個就是有關於選手池的問題我說之前這個我們政府可能教育部吧就是有設立一些"},{"start":6265.212,"end":6285.626,"text":"所謂的電競專班那這個電競專班大部分是在一個有些學校是把它放到資料處理科有時候資料處理科就是電競專班那用這個當作噱頭去招攬未來的電競人才可是我們可以看其實可以看一個數據從104選年度到113選年度我們資料處理科就是所謂的電競專班的人數是逐漸下滑"},{"start":6292.831,"end":6308.04,"text":"從一百零四那時候很夯啊有六萬兩千五百六十七人啊到一百一十三學年度大概只剩下三萬兩千七百一十五人這是人數的下滑那更不要說就是有一些學校他的資料處理科實際上"},{"start":6308.956,"end":6333.951,"text":"有些課程內容大概跟電競也不是太直接相關那用這個噱頭招攬人進去但是相關的學生並沒有辦法得到這方面的訓練他就變成一個噱頭而已那導致於我們電競選手的選手池很明顯的不足我不知道院中部長了不了解這個狀況或還是說要請教育部來回答呢?會不會部長知道嘛?"},{"start":6335.718,"end":6354.667,"text":"實際的狀況我確實不是這麼不太了解那因為現在既然說運動部成立的像這些都屬於運動部要管的單項的競技賽的話那我覺得運動部也要了解啊因為你對不對因為這都是跟你有關的嘛那請部長請今天教育部是次長是不是次長你知道這個情形嗎"},{"start":6356.857,"end":6368.455,"text":"跟各位報告確實目前在大學設系所裡面很多學校他可能會以課程的包裝或是以一些教學分組來進行他不見得會跟他的系名是對應在一起的"},{"start":6369.414,"end":6389.791,"text":"不是 我是說當初是設很多這樣的系要為了培養電競人才可是教育部有沒有去了解說類似這樣的一個要培養電競人才的電競專班到底成效如何然後有沒有實際上為我們國家選才然後成立一個很龐大的選手池有沒有嘛"},{"start":6390.031,"end":6403.651,"text":"不然就是會造成說有些學生來這邊發現不是想跟想學的不一樣或技術不到位然後甚至於也不想念書最後就是畢業了可能什麼都不會我是說你有沒有了解這個情形啊"},{"start":6405.369,"end":6431.078,"text":"跟委員報告我們通常是透過職業的試探性向的試探跟評鑑來瞭解需要可見你沒有之前可能沒有針對這個好 沒關係我現在請你去瞭解一下好不好好 沒問題因為現在大家在討論電競電競產業嘛那你進去瞭解一下第一個為什麼人數越來越少然後第二個到底具體來說那個課程的設計到底有沒有跟培養電競人才達到跟職階的關係還有畢業生"},{"start":6434.419,"end":6455.665,"text":"畢業之後到底多少是投入電競產業還是說其實都沒有學以致用因為這個是我們人才庫的部分好不好請教育部了解一下好不好給我們一份報告第二個謝謝教育部第二個部長你知道我們最近剛好這兩年去年的時候在英雄聯盟世界賽"},{"start":6457.862,"end":6473.383,"text":"剛剛有一個隊伍啦又幫台灣重回了世界八強那這是很少數台灣新生代的新星結果呢打出成績之後隔年馬上就被中國大陸的賽區買走了這是新聞報導啦說用一千九百萬的天價挖角"},{"start":6473.703,"end":6492.959,"text":"那這個1900萬到底是真實的數字還是不真實的數字有人質疑啦不過他就是被挖角就是一個事實那被挖角很顯然的原因就是人家出天價嘛那一方面可能他所這個選手他待的隊伍也許沒有給他那麼高的價錢就被挖走了那這部分"},{"start":6494.218,"end":6512.28,"text":"運動部有沒有針對流財的部分剛剛講選財啦現在是在講流財那流財的部分我們有提出有什麼對策出來嗎跟委員您報告那在早上公聽會完其實我們得到非常多意見其實在這一個我覺得後續在運動部這邊可以做的是比如說像在國光獎"},{"start":6513.041,"end":6538.44,"text":"章這邊可以來加入在電競這個項目裡面那當然還有我們很多委員提到的這個退役轉這個專任的這個教練我想這都是我們運動部能做的那當然委員您說的這一個用1900萬的天價來挖角我想這是就如同這個電競它這個高度商業化的部分所以如果他們有更好的去處我想運動部會支持他們去到任何這一個"},{"start":6539.221,"end":6561.991,"text":"你看你支持單一選手有更好的發展嘛那我現在講的是以台灣的角度我們如何把優秀選手留下來嘛因為假設我們培養出優秀選手他要跳槽優秀選手要跳槽那我們這個產業就沒辦法有正常的發展啊可是我講的是說留才的部分啊然後就我了解就是很多職業選手退役之後確實"},{"start":6563.447,"end":6586.164,"text":"能夠工作是很有限啦所以運動部也要去思考他們退役之後要做什麼有一些退役選手還跑去打德州撲克啦所以這你真的要關心一下這是一連貫的 都相關的所以在流財的部分然後還有我給一個建議啦我之前曾經有去參加就是人家辦比賽 我去"},{"start":6587.305,"end":6602.416,"text":"去這個到場支持啦就是所謂的六都電競爭霸賽,這個部長您知道嗎?喔知道,我們如果我沒記錯的話全民數應該是有提供確實不太高,我這樣,我這未來我們會提高更多的補助"},{"start":6604.13,"end":6631.207,"text":"那其實我要講的不是補助啦,當然補助多一點更好了六都電競爭霸賽是民間自辦的,民間自辦的比賽那他當然會有去跟六都的地方政府合作那地方政府合作就是給補助啦,大概也是差不多,或提供場地這樣但其實我覺得電競的選手們,或是關心電競的朋友們更希望是運動部可以主導一個官方的賽事"},{"start":6632.253,"end":6657.486,"text":"就是直接比如說有運動部或者是政府哪一個單位直接來辦那當然這個辦比賽中間過程牽涉到很多很複雜的細節然後例如說有沒有辦法取得那個遊戲的授權啊或者是相關轉播什麼之類的技術問題我相信這個是蠻容易克服的就是說如果連民間單位他們都可以自辦這樣的比賽那官方來辦應該也不是困難的地方可是如果說是由官方來辦的話他會"},{"start":6659.369,"end":6660.817,"text":"提高整體大家對電競賽事的關注度"},{"start":6663.976,"end":6690.198,"text":"所以我不知道運動部有沒有可能朝我剛剛講的這個這樣的建議把電競賽事當作官方比賽項目之一我想跟委員您報告那這個在未來我們覺得委員您建議的這確實希望說我們可以往這個方向走比如說像全大陸不好意思全大運有將電競納入比賽項目那我也希望說未來如果就像委員您說的如果可以由"},{"start":6690.999,"end":6707.062,"text":"我們運動部來舉辦這樣的賽事那也有助於電子競技運動的發展如果是這樣的話那我們也會來積極來處理好 OK 那希望您可以從這方面去規劃啦好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝部長 謝謝委員有請下一位羅志祥委員"},{"start":6725.766,"end":6750.886,"text":"有請部長部長好今天我們是討論電子競技運動基本法的草案我想部長應該也有注意到近期的新聞回答執行長黃仁勳結束了台灣總部的行程之後"},{"start":6751.607,"end":6773.744,"text":"那他就去韓國跟世界知名的電競選手Faker見面這個新聞你有掌握到嗎?公文您報告有,Faker是英雄聯盟的傳奇那當時黃仁勳曾經談及他對電競產業的高度關注他說如果沒有PC遊戲、網咖以及電競產業就不會有今天的回答"},{"start":6774.765,"end":6800.803,"text":"那就像您剛剛講如果說對於電競有所了解就是知道在以英雄聯盟禁忌文明的Faker他在韓國還有國際上的代表性跟影響力那加上黃仁勳的發言我想這個案例已經讓我們來認真的去思考有關於電競發展其實已經有非常廣含性的意義那除了說今天"},{"start":6801.944,"end":6817.952,"text":"鼓勵這個電子競技之外事實上它也是一個非常重要的產業我想這一點那個部長應該認同吧對不對認同謝謝所以他可以講說他其實包含三個元素啦產業科技力文化力那"},{"start":6818.712,"end":6833.384,"text":"也就是說從電競產業的特殊性它已經從單純的遊戲已經延展到各種不同的面向那從產業面來講的話例如這一次黃仁勳手中的顯卡到設備ICT技術"},{"start":6836.026,"end":6860.617,"text":"網路軟體還有賽事教練選手跟轉播贊助等等全球電競市場的規模是高達14億歐元那台幣大概是511億元而且還在成長當中那科技力方面剛剛也提到半導體電腦硬體軟體網路社群這些新興科技基礎不少都跟電競產業相關那南韓的資訊產業發展"},{"start":6865.419,"end":6886.951,"text":"也是跟電競產業的推動有緊密的連結這一點沒錯吧?跟委員報告就我了解是的那在文化力方面的話韓國的案例顯而易見它帶動的不只是不是只是單純一個品牌啦也包括運動競技專業思維跟團隊合作的展現"},{"start":6887.791,"end":6905.3,"text":"所以最後展現出來的成果就是競技選手更是提高國家能見度他也變成一個韓國的文化輸出這點部長你認同嗎?認同那我是不知道部長您在這個球學時代有喜歡哪一些電子競技遊戲呢?"},{"start":6906.688,"end":6932.05,"text":"剛好也是菲格玩的英雄聯盟英雄聯盟嘛對不對那我在玩的時候那時候更早啦那是星海爭霸啊什麼世紀帝國英雄聯盟只是沾了一點點不太熟悉可是我就要回溯就是說在最早的時候尤其像比方說早期像星海爭霸、世紀帝國這些比較屬於競技性的這些我們講說電子競技的初期在那時候其實"},{"start":6933.231,"end":6955.086,"text":"包括南韓跟台灣其實狀況是差不了太多的沒錯吧那時候我還記得是網咖林立嘛很多大學生在宿舍玩或是到網咖去玩可是經過這麼多年下來你覺得台灣在電子競技產業跟南韓電子競技產業的差別是什麼有沒有一個落差拉開來跟委員報告我想這是"},{"start":6956.507,"end":6973.645,"text":"呃我們需要精進的那真的跟南韓現在現行的狀況真的是有落差的對啊所以我是講說當時其實就南韓在這一部分在電子經濟產業部分你可以看到他就展現他的一個前瞻跟所謂的他的一個宏觀的佈局"},{"start":6973.905,"end":7002.768,"text":"所以他今天可以一路發展到現在變成是跟台灣早期其實都差不多但是現在他們就拉出一個很明顯的差距那當然這是現狀但現狀不代表不可以改變現狀還是可以想辦法去從我們去扶植產業跟去重新重塑文化這件事情來去著手努力那這是我想為什麼今天昭偉他特別要提出這個今天電子競技的基本法這一個"},{"start":7003.408,"end":7018.906,"text":"修法立法的工作它一個初衷那我想要請教一下就是說韓國其實不只韓國是成功案例啦那歐美國家也都已經投入電競產業法國跟也是以政府領頭布局電競產業發展"},{"start":7021.289,"end":7038.782,"text":"其背後因素就是這些國家都看見了產業科技力文化力所帶來一個未來的一個高度的經濟以及所謂的戰略的價值那台灣的利基也不只是強大的科技製造鏈過去我們也很早就有所謂的"},{"start":7040.083,"end":7055.376,"text":"優秀的電競選手出現包括2001年世紀帝國2的世界冠軍曾振誠以及2012年台北暗殺星TPA奪下的英雄聯盟的世界冠軍這都曾經是台灣曾經有的"},{"start":7056.236,"end":7082.874,"text":"輝煌時刻可是比較可惜的是當時當然得到我們社會大眾還有包括我們政府機關很多的一個關注可是短暫熱潮之後你就會發現我們並沒有善用這個熱潮來去形塑這個我們的比較好的電子競技的一個發展的環境那我也其實有大概看了一下包括質詢的過程我覺得這個部長對於所謂的"},{"start":7086.156,"end":7109.342,"text":"電子禁忌的這個基本法目前我看部裡的態度相對是保留的嘛對不對跟委員報告那我們當然希望推動電子禁忌這個東西這個電子禁忌這樣運動絕對是我們支持的那主要是在基本法這個的位階部分我們比較保留我跟部長提醒一下就是說"},{"start":7110.402,"end":7139.637,"text":"我覺得運動部可以思考的更所謂的有一些開創性那如果說今天我們已經錯視了過去電子經濟產業的一個發展非常好的契機就當全民有這個熱潮我們有優秀的選手那也帶動了整個的我們的各界對於這個產業的關注甚至所謂的文化的正向肯定的時候那我們是有錯視這樣的機會那如果說我們過去的做法並沒有"},{"start":7140.297,"end":7168.3,"text":"並沒有導致的結果就是今天跟南韓的電子經濟產業的落差那我就想要提醒部長就是說當然是不是用基本法的形式待會我們在審法案的時候可以討論啦可是我真的是真心的覺得就是過去既然我們過去政府採用的路徑跟方法跟鼓勵的一些政策顯然沒有達成功效那運動部做一個新的部會我覺得應該要有新的視野跟新的眼光"},{"start":7168.9,"end":7183.69,"text":"重新來看待說今天怎麼樣我們在電子經濟產業這個部分我們能夠急起直追建立一個更好的環境我想這才是今天我們來審這個法案的一個初衷過去顯然的路徑並不夠成功"},{"start":7185.231,"end":7211.002,"text":"未來該怎麼去精進調整既然運動部做一個新的單位我覺得不必為被過去的做法框線應該去從一個比較嶄新的戰略觀我覺得南韓真的是一個很值得參考的一個發展的成功的案例那他們的法治環境怎麼建構他們的產業的環境怎麼建構這個都應該值得運動部好好地來去參照跟思索的以上 謝謝"},{"start":7216.179,"end":7233.855,"text":"謝謝部長 謝謝委員下面有請吳佩奕委員謝謝主席 我請教育部有請教育部"},{"start":7241.355,"end":7255.188,"text":"市長我們今天是進行電競基本法的詢答不過剛剛聽下來蠻多大家在討論都是針對於目前我們支持電競不管是教育還是運動還是產業在執行政策上面落實的問題"},{"start":7256.229,"end":7285.007,"text":"那關於電競的教育我今天有一些問題特別是想要提出來跟教育部討論的我先從人才培育也就是我們在學校的電競系電競專班開始近十年呢我們在大學陸續來成立電競系高中也有成立電競專班在二零六年的時候是遠東大學成立了多媒體與遊戲發展管理系這當時被認為是台灣第一所的電競學系那遠東快樂現在是改名是就是我們現在中信科大了"},{"start":7285.367,"end":7304.034,"text":"然後2018年的時候是數德科大它成立了全台第一所是通過我們教育部所核定所設立的電競系的大學那麼2018年的時候當時的媒體報導數字是說全台灣電競專班學程跟系所通通加起來總共是60處"},{"start":7306.835,"end":7326.107,"text":"那到現在 從2018年成立到現在因為當中有些停銷了到現在我們還有在經營的這些電競專班 系所還有學生加起來你們教育部有沒有統計現在是目前是還有多少謝謝委員因為如果從姓名來看的話"},{"start":7328.732,"end":7351.802,"text":"如果我們姓名是有掛電競的這個其實是相對的少是相對的少這就在你們今天提供的報告當中嘛對對但是老實說因為以電競產業或是他有需要人才有時候是跨域的所以我們可能會有一些遊戲系所或是我們那個電腦程式設計等等相關系所也會有這方面的人才都有可能"},{"start":7352.202,"end":7365.463,"text":"好 那如果不限於科系的名稱就是跟電技相關的我們現在大學到高中有這些學程 系所或是專班的這個數量你們有沒有統計啊總共是多少"},{"start":7366.124,"end":7378.108,"text":"如果是以比較廣的面向來看的話以我們以運動電競遊戲相關系所作為關鍵字來查我們相關系所目前大概有42個學校134個系有5507個名額這是最大最廣義的一個篩選對"},{"start":7387.731,"end":7409.8,"text":"我就是要特別提出來就是說因為我認為統計的數字應該是我們在去規劃和最終政策執行的時候一個最基本的事實的掌握我們現在的狀況是我們連相關的統計其實都欠缺一致性像你們今天的資料你們是用名字去撈電競遊戲相關的大學的話總共是25個系所"},{"start":7413.641,"end":7439.121,"text":"那高中是你們算起來竟然是三所但是呢今天早上也有公聽會以電競協會所提供的數據是說他們所協助開設的電競專班總共是54所所以這個算起來等於是定義跟標準就現在沒有不一致了那再來呢就是除了統計以外因為我們在看這些電競的這些"},{"start":7441.503,"end":7468.417,"text":"專班或者系所他們其實學校也是很努力在做但是因為他在開設初期的時候第一個他需要有高額的硬體的投資他要聘請教練等等今天公聽會也有這個學校來分享經驗可是一年以前差不多一年多前所以現在的話當時有好幾位是電競專班的學生他們就拍了網路的影片就是告訴大家說他其實是呼籲"},{"start":7469.497,"end":7491.496,"text":"大家不要去念電競班這個也引發了社會很大的關注跟討論所以我今天最主要想要請教教育部的是因為現在倘若要牽涉到不管是定辦法還是要修法還是要立法我們對過去這十年所進行的有關電競的人才培育你們有沒有做基本的追蹤"},{"start":7492.757,"end":7515.767,"text":"就是說這些學生10年以前設立的這些專班系所學成這些學生他們後來畢業之後第一個他在學期間所受到的這些培訓培養學校跟我們教育部的這個政策有沒有要調整的空間跟方向第二個是他們畢業之後的流向去了哪裡了呢這個有關於畢業之後的流向"},{"start":7516.806,"end":7538.368,"text":"你們其實是有給一個數字就是說你從畢業生流向調查裡面去撈電競系的學生但你們給我的資料其實母體樣本也很少連100位也不到但是我就先以這一個資料來看的話其中10%畢業後是從事教育訓練類有可能是教練跟選手這相關的那10%是從事圖文影音傳播類"},{"start":7538.848,"end":7561.188,"text":"有可能是賽事轉播那也可能是相關的7.5%是資訊科技類這些撈起來都是最相關但是從這個數字來看的話其實也就是說已經來就讀電競專班的學生但是畢業之後從事相關的學生其實數字是很少的教育部有沒有做進行這些電競專班開設之後這些學生流向的追蹤"},{"start":7562.516,"end":7590.897,"text":"跟我們報告部裡面我們是針對各個職業別我們都有去做追蹤但是我們通常都是會配合相關的主管機關有需求比如說我們先前有配合農業部他針對於農業相關系所畢業的學生到哪邊去那我們就會一起來合作或像STEM領域的那過去確實沒有特別針對電競這個項目去做比較深入的一個追蹤了解"},{"start":7591.337,"end":7608.122,"text":"是 我認為我們需要有相關的追蹤調查那運動部有沒有這樣的需求等一下我會拜託部長要有這樣的需求因為如果說我們未來要提出這個電競產業的白皮書我們在人才培育已經有十年的基礎了嘛究竟這十年做得怎麼樣"},{"start":7609.122,"end":7631.106,"text":"沒有調查沒有了解很難去有進步的這個空間所以呢我是建議教育部你們其實可以進行一個委託研究案針對我們因為這個資料庫其實教育部有只是過去我們沒有撈出來這個分析請你們要去進行跟我們報告這點我們會跟運動部來討論如何針對這個電競人才相關的人才培育好謝謝處長那處長請回我請運動部"},{"start":7638.74,"end":7667.538,"text":"有請部長部長接下來我要跟你討論的是也是上午我們在公聽會上中有提到的學校有分享就是說現在在學校裡面雖然有電競專班很多可是缺少穩定的賽事所以有一些算是專班但有點像就像是電競校隊而已但是穩定的賽事對學生來講其實是一個重要的舞台例如說這個像籃球有HBO然後另外棒球有黑豹旗等等的那這個運動部目前有沒有什麼樣的想法"},{"start":7667.998,"end":7688.867,"text":"我想跟委員報告那在全大運的部分我們會將電競賽事納入項目然後未來會來研擬這個相關的這個比如說像全運會或者是其他運動會是否可以來加入電競這個項目那也有剛剛這個委員也有提到的是比如說或許我們運動部也有機會來主辦這樣的賽事我想這對我們電競運動應該都有這個相關的提升"},{"start":7692.76,"end":7717.368,"text":"這我覺得很重要 另外還有就是說電競因為他在這個奧會裡面 他沒有這個擔當協會嘛所以今天公聽委也提到很多就是他的這個成績採計的問題然後還有是他的這個在亞運當中的項目會變動很快例如說2022跟2026的亞運兩次的項目重複只有四個遊戲是重複的那電競協會的建議是說 因為他現在就是沒有"},{"start":7718.148,"end":7719.489,"text":"這個運動部目前有沒有什麼樣的想法可以來幫忙"},{"start":7738.382,"end":7767.894,"text":"跟委員您報告那首先每一次的亞運它的舉辦項目其實最主要是主辦單位跟承辦城市共同協商之後決定的所以每一屆的項目會真的非常不一樣那我想這部分確實很難有一個很前瞻性的去了解到每一次項目當然比如說像我了解到T0的項目比如說像委員您提供的英雄聯盟那真的是就如同上面這四個我想都是非常多人參與的那非常"},{"start":7768.494,"end":7776.478,"text":"只能說非常高機率會舉辦但沒辦法確切的知道說比如說下一屆的亞運是否又舉辦這些項目"},{"start":7777.985,"end":7801.651,"text":"這個我是建議運動部啦其實我覺得今天公聽會因為時間有限但是他們的意見真的很重要所以我是建議你們應該還要再召集座談會你們要找電競協會不只是協會選手你們主動來召集選手嘛然後甚至是剛剛講的學界在校園裡面過去經營的成果我是建議運動部你們可不可以由運動部來主動召集這產業界的然後運動"},{"start":7803.192,"end":7810.568,"text":"運動界的體育界的然後還有這個學校能不能主動來召集這個座談會然後去了解細節才能夠真的是幫到忙"},{"start":7811.363,"end":7838.454,"text":"跟委員您報告 那首先我們這一點上面絕對會來做因為下禮拜目前應該是有應該是下禮拜四已經確定會由次長或是我本人親自參與這樣剛剛講的這個今天早上公聽會的相關這個業者或者是選手以及協會我想藉由座談會更加了解到實務上我們運動部可以幫助電子競技運動要來如何更加的務實的來推廣我想這是我們運動部最為龐大的部分"},{"start":7838.854,"end":7858.924,"text":"好最後因為今天難得是好幾個部位都在現場有一個問題我快速的就是我必須要提醒運動部就是說我們手邊有一份是文策院的針對內容產業的調查報告裡面有幾個數字我覺得很重要第一個他告訴我們說全球的電競市場規模相當龐大去年是2023年是53億2024年是66億不但很龐大而且在成長第二個他告訴我們說全球的電競觀眾數字也很驚人是高達了5.多億"},{"start":7868.169,"end":7885.08,"text":"那麼其中呢超過五成是來自於亞太地區的觀眾那我也看到國際電競市場有一個統計的資料他在統計的是什麼是說我們電競產業他主要的市場收入來源究竟是哪些其中第一個第一名的超過8億美元是來自於贊助超過2億美元來自於媒體授權再來"},{"start":7889.382,"end":7902.694,"text":"發行費跟門票商品的收入差不多都在1億美元這個數字也就是說贊助的收入其實最大宗那要怎麼樣可以吸引贊助就是要轉播嘛要轉播才可以提升這些品牌曝光的機會那所以電競轉播對於賽事職業賽事的這個舉辦"},{"start":7906.297,"end":7930.025,"text":"也很重要我們看到說在高雄他們的青年局就在辦這個電競人才的培育計畫其中就是要來去培育電競轉播的人才所以我們也一再提醒運動部說我們要發展電競產業是賽事選手轉播贊助這一整個生態系通通都要連結在一起有相關的政策配套你才有辦法去整體的來去提升電競產業但是"},{"start":7931.946,"end":7950.564,"text":"我要講的是說這一份資料不是運動部給我們的是文策院的統計報告運動部你們自己對電競產業我剛剛講這些數字我們甚至都沒有基本的統計我們都沒有基本的掌握我們連國內的電競產業到底現在是什麼樣子我們都不清楚所以我會認為說"},{"start":7952.265,"end":7978.539,"text":"民法院我們現在不管要討論什麼樣的下一步拜託運動部剛剛講的比如說教育的過去電競教育這十年我們到底做的怎麼樣我們連統計資料都沒有台灣的電競產業現在的樣態到底長做什麼樣子除了要去找選手第一線的來去交流以外你們自己手邊的資料要先去把它建立起來有資料以後我們才有辦法進行政策的討論那你們說要提出電競產業的白皮書"},{"start":7981.38,"end":7998.437,"text":"你如果沒有這些統計資料你有沒有怎麼提白皮書呢這是我非常大的一個疑問但是我最後還是要請教部長我們這個電競產業的白皮書你們有沒有一個時間表預計什麼時候可以來提出公務員您報告白皮書的部分預計在年底"},{"start":7999.181,"end":8020.331,"text":"年底的時候要提出來那拜託我剛講這些基本的統計數字一定要去掌握我認為進行立法工作之前把基本的事實了解是負責任的態度我們要先了解產業的現況才能來去提供他更好的相關的政策的措施好謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝委員好謝謝"},{"start":8030.014,"end":8040.301,"text":"下一位陳培育委員好謝謝主席那有請運動部部長有請部長"},{"start":8049.264,"end":8070.461,"text":"委員您好好 部長我們今天在桌上有看到一份應該是運動部有針對昭緯的版本還有葛如軍的委員的版本你們有做出關於竹條的建議對不對那我想問部長你們在座這兩位委員因為目前為止整個立法院只有這兩位委員提案那你們在研究他們這個竹條竹條的時候"},{"start":8072.803,"end":8097.079,"text":"你們心裡面想的是如果它真的成為所謂電競基本法我們可能真的未來在執行上會遇到哪些困難可不可以先廣泛的跟我們說明一下各位您報告那首先電競基本法對我們來講其實基本法位階非常高那當然電子競技運動這個是我們運動部所掌管的其中一個項目我想"},{"start":8097.859,"end":8125.436,"text":"電子競技運動是我們運動部過去在體育署的時候確實在推動上面有需要精進的部分那我身為現在身為運動部部長我想這是我們需要再更加強化的部分那我們也在明年的預算編列已經有編列3000萬的部分那我們也希望說藉由現行的法制架構上面我們提升更多的這個行政命令來去確定我們對於電子競技運動的推展這件事情的目的"},{"start":8126.578,"end":8153.126,"text":"好 部長你講了兩個關鍵我們就再往下細問好了第一個因為我相信你們已經在編明年的預算雖然立法院現在都還沒有審尤其是部長您手上的預算運動部的也都還沒有審查去年的預算但沒關係你們已經很負責任的在編明年的預算您剛剛說已經編了3000萬有沒有機會讓我們先知道一下目前這3000萬大概會用在哪些大項不用給我們細節我想知道你們目前編列了哪些大項"},{"start":8154.126,"end":8173.539,"text":"跟委員您報告,就我現在所了解的部分的話,當然除了我們剛剛提到的這個六都的這個爭霸賽以外,除了補助以外,我們還希望說在這一個剛剛有提提供到的,比如說像未來可能在擬定這個這個國光獎章或者是這個轉任專任運動教練,我想這些都是需要預算來去支應的,那我想"},{"start":8174.139,"end":8203.339,"text":"这部分我们当然希望说在电子竞技运动这一块我们可以做的除了在学校以外的部分我们来去做更多常态性的编列我想包含今年的名古屋亚运的这个电子竞技运动的培训这也是我们预算需要去编列的部分好所以刚部长讲了有六都的赛事然后面对国际赛事的选手培训甚至还有国防奖章专任教练转任的部分这个是运动部有编对吗好那我想问一下教育部有来吗"},{"start":8204.619,"end":8232.255,"text":"好我們請下一部長官謝謝有請市長那投影片先進下一張好那我請教一部說明一下目前來年的預算你們編列到跟電競有關的可不可以給我們一些大象的說明或是廣泛的說明就可以了跟電競有關的因為我們今天談電競積分法嗎根本報告因為我們在支援的是各個學問領域並沒有特別目前的"},{"start":8233.482,"end":8248.468,"text":"政策可能要特別針對電競去編列那如果回應到剛剛吳佩儀委員所提到的因為還有各式各樣的電競專班或者是協會裡面有說他們去協助學校開的這個學分或者是專班目前你們教育部會有預算在這些專班裡頭嗎或者是這些個別協會去開的班級裡頭"},{"start":8252.31,"end":8271.009,"text":"我舉例跟文說明就是說像我們對一個大學可能我們有高教生跟的經費那裡面會去鼓勵學校去發展他的特色如果有某個大學把電競當成是他們一個特色的話那就可以運用這筆錢去發展但是教育部這邊目前是沒有特別針對電競去編特定的計畫跟效果"},{"start":8273.151,"end":8299.87,"text":"沒問題為什麼我要問這些事情因為我要講的是因為今天現在兩個委員的版本都叫做基本法那我覺得在法理上在體力上我們真的有必要有非常大的必要要跟國人報告什麼叫做基本法那我相信部長跟次長你一定都非常清楚但是我還是要說所謂的基本法是因為我們在意的一些基本權利而且它所涉及的是"},{"start":8300.43,"end":8318.512,"text":"广泛的全国性的人民不论他在几岁的时候而且他所影响的族群是非常庞大的例如说教育基本法文化基本法社会福利基本法青年基本法客家基本法科学技术基本法"},{"start":8319.053,"end":8337.336,"text":"也就是說不論你在哪一個年齡階段你在哪一個產業領域當中甚至他關係高跟國土有關的海洋基本法甚至是吳立華委員有非台灣我們在談多元族群的時候都會關心到的原住民族基本法甚至"},{"start":8338.417,"end":8367.11,"text":"還有所謂新著名基本法這些我認為基本法它所顧及到的是基本原則基本準繩跟基本方針而且如果要去落實基本法我們要做的相關法律的配套跟設計應該超級無敵多我想請問教育部我們就以教育基本法來說是我們光是為了教育基本法所設置相關的配套辦法執法條例或行政命令你現在背得出來有多少嗎"},{"start":8368.555,"end":8389.507,"text":"很多我可不可以說他超過100個都有可能因為我講的是行政命令啦條例啦辦法啦這些都有可能對不對好那假設我只是假設假設今天昭偉硬要決定逐條然後我們可能後續逐條然後再保留啊再審查啦再討論但是假設昭偉真的想要讓他三讀過關"},{"start":8390.968,"end":8409.688,"text":"在這麼多法理的問題都還沒有解決之前在所有的委員或是所有的公聽會的學者專家今天提出來的問題都沒有辦法解決但是基本法就是要被過關未來你們可能要花多少的時間去處理所謂的配套辦法執法命令或者是等等的我想先請教育部回答再請運動部回答"},{"start":8411.541,"end":8438.129,"text":"報告委員這一塊可能我們會進一步看條文內容再思考教育部要做什麼樣子的配套那你們目前有看到這兩個委員的版本了嗎是那你初步的想像如果我們從人才培育產學合作這兩個角度思考可能我們要修正的相關的行政規則跟行政指導就會涉及到很多了很多我可不可以說半年一年可能都做不完"},{"start":8438.829,"end":8457.189,"text":"为什么会举这么长的时间以我自己之前在修学服法在我们教文的时候当时的学服法经过非常多漫长的讨论可能最后的癥结点可能就只剩一两个都讨论了很多次然后到目前为止学服法其实已经通过三度通过快要一年了吧一年多一年多"},{"start":8458.257,"end":8486.716,"text":"我們還有很多事情沒有完成對不對還有幾個執法沒有錯還需要共識沒有錯好而且它涉及到不是只有教育部認不認真的問題它牽扯到教育部跟其他部會跨部會的合作第二個牽扯到中央政府跟地方政府的合作是所以為什麼光是一個學輔法它只是修了其中幾條但是我們在相關的配套執法條例行政命令裡面要花這麼長的時間"},{"start":8488.397,"end":8506.866,"text":"好接下來請運動部部長因為你們盤點完之後你的幕僚有沒有告訴你未來假設真的被三讀通過之後你們運動部因為他現在主責機關是壓在運動部你們大概花多久的時間去想像各式各樣的配套執法辦法條例行政命令等等的"},{"start":8508.238,"end":8530.983,"text":"跟委員您報告我想這個就如同您剛剛所提到確實是非常龐大的那如果基本法一定立下去那當然我們有非常多的行政命令還有相關的法案需要去來去推動時間確實你不敢想像對不對確實好我也不敢想像但我們可以務實的來看我們目前可以做什麼事情來下一張"},{"start":8532.443,"end":8545.381,"text":"在幾次的關於電子競技專基本法的討論當中我覺得有一件事情剛剛吳佩儀委員也有講到當兩次的亞運賽事的時候重複的遊戲項目只有四個"},{"start":8548.044,"end":8576.306,"text":"意思就是說當這些比賽的標的是建立在這些個別廠商的遊戲上的時候選手當然可以拼命可以努力可是他跟一般的運動就截然的不同所以我要舉一個曾經發生過的真實事件為例任天堂曾經無預警的關停任天堂明星大亂鬥的全球最大社群賽事同時他簡單的只說了一句話說那些時代結束了"},{"start":8577.006,"end":8598.253,"text":"那我不確定現場長官媽媽你媽媽玩這個電動我只能跟你說有人回答我沒有我只能跟你說它真的很受歡迎我身邊的小孩也都有在玩它是一個很可愛的遊戲可是當時任天堂明星大亂鬥世界巡迴錦標賽它是由玩家社群所營運是世界上規模最大的任天堂明星大亂鬥社群電競賽事"},{"start":8600.914,"end":8615.463,"text":"我想先說就算是社群辦的不是所謂的亞運也不是所謂的奧運他也還不是六都辦是社群辦的但我必須要說他一定有經過合法的授權對嗎好那但是任天堂當時說停就停"},{"start":8616.323,"end":8640.996,"text":"所以2022年跟2023年SWT的賽事都被取消在聲明當中就只有說這個時代已經結束我們不知道任天堂為什麼做出這樣的決定但是說停就停所有的當年想要參加這個社群賽事的玩家或者是選手們就沒有了所以我要說我上一次在拜託召委安排公聽會跟任委要"},{"start":8641.676,"end":8670.689,"text":"更做更多嚴謹的法律研究的時候我講的第一件事情就是所有這些因為遊戲IP延伸出來的活動也好賽事也好他都必須要事先經過遊戲開發商的同意跟授權所以如果今天這個東西是掐在這些廠商手上我不確定我們未來的不確定性這麼高的情況下我們如何合理合法合規的同時是讓這些選手真的覺得他被照顧到去協助這些選手這是我覺得目前"},{"start":8671.249,"end":8693.121,"text":"最大的問題來第二個那其他國家怎麼做我們來看一下目前呢馬來西亞他們只有做政策的部分也就是說他們為了保障選手的權益還有選手的這些義務然後也為了避免發生一些弊端可能有作弊的問題可能有禁藥的問題所以他們成立了電子競技誠信委員會還有"},{"start":8694.562,"end":8717.759,"text":"就像剛剛部長兩位部長都說的我們可能未來有六度的賽事所以為了整合各地賽事的規範他們建立一個統一的積分標準所以孩子們可能所謂巡迴賽但是它依然只是政策它嫁接在現在各個部會原有的法律上去做一些加強跟調整跟協助讓賽事可以更順暢預算可以更多政策可以更合理"},{"start":8718.439,"end":8743.286,"text":"那巴西怎麼做?巴西他們只立了一個叫做電子遊戲法律框架框架甚至他把遊戲視為科技產品跟文化影音產品他把遊戲產業跟電競運動分開意思就是說對於巴西也好對於馬來西亞也好可能在很多委員的心中在很多專家學者心中這兩個國家電競可能做比台灣好資源比台灣多預算比台灣多但"},{"start":8743.726,"end":8759.38,"text":"即使這兩個看起來做比台灣好資源比台灣多的國家他們都沒有為了這個立一個專法所以我要說我們今天在考慮要立這個專法的時候我們所擔心的事情其實有一部分是來自這個我不知道李洋部長你怎麼看"},{"start":8760.353,"end":8777.667,"text":"我想跟委員您報告那首先我們還是要強調說我們對於電子競技這個運動的推動是本部跟委員們都非常高度重視今天上午的公聽會我想這也是高度的共識那我想過去確實我們在推動上面確實比較慢那我想"},{"start":8778.768,"end":8802.108,"text":"運動部接下來會針對電子競技運動的部分來去積極的推動我想這部分我們肯定有更加多的方法來去推動電子競技運動那當然很感謝委員每一位委員對於我們電子競技的重視好文化部有沒有來啊文化部有來嗎好我們請文化部的長官就這一頁我想請教文化部的意見喔"},{"start":8806.107,"end":8828.375,"text":"以巴西的角度來看好 謝謝以巴西的角度來看他把遊戲視為科技產品跟文化影音產品分開那一旦關係到IP授權可能又會圍到文化部本身或者是制裁局本身請問文化部的長官你們怎麼看他立為一個基本法之後文化部未來在面對這樣的事情可能有哪些因應之道包含我剛剛講的突然任天堂明星大亂鬥"},{"start":8829.915,"end":8854.813,"text":"官方公司說不辦就不辦說取消就取消說不授權就不授權你們自己怎麼看這部分的爭議其實要回到著作權法的基本爭議那他是不是能夠在電子基本法裡面去規範我們不確定但是因為授權的問題是所有文化內容上游最上游的一個基本問題那如果那塊授權問題沒有被穩定的賦予權利而且有法律的條約的拘束的話他可能會有"},{"start":8855.313,"end":8879.054,"text":"的確會在是應用上會有問題不過那應該不是只有電競或電子遊戲它基本上是應該是所有文化內容的IP的授權源頭以上如同次長您剛剛說的我研究了羅委員跟葛委員的版本裡面確實沒有辦法規範這件事情所以真的就很有可能發生我剛剛說的當官方授權說收就收說不做就不做這件事情其實它是嚴重影響到選手的權益對嗎"},{"start":8881.076,"end":8898.345,"text":"是好但是很可惜確實也沒有辦法規範到謝謝文化部好那我們接下來往下看下一張不好意思時間已經到了不好意思主席我還沒有問完拜託再給我一點時間因為我們既然要修法我們就好好討論可以嗎謝謝主席好下一張"},{"start":8899.929,"end":8923.306,"text":"我要說現在的運動部也好 速發部 勞動部 文化部 衛福部各地方政府跟各個部會還有經濟部我們分頭在電子經濟做了哪些事情而當我們把這些一條一條東西拿來對照朱熹寧的版本的時候幾乎在現在的法規裡面都有了來 第一個從事電子經濟遊戲專用的電腦及其周邊設備來自經濟部"},{"start":8927.469,"end":8950.027,"text":"国内本土游戏产业开发来自书发部然后未来一旦有授权IP的问题可以通过文化部来协助跟制裁局还有选手就业辅导还有合可雇佣外籍选手来台工作现在劳动部有法规在学的电竞选手的学业辅导我们有教育部文创智慧财产的开发电子竞技专长类别替代一评选我们有文化部"},{"start":8951.075,"end":8975.013,"text":"今天早上我在後面簽到的時候也遇到國內的遊戲開發廠商他們說他們是在做國內第一款競技遊戲的廠商我們也希望未來可以扶植像這樣的本土遊戲廠商做出一個可以揚名國際的競技遊戲未來有勞我劃補再來一旦涉及到未成年人的身心健康甚至未來可能有上癮的問題的時候我們已經有衛福部相關的法令"},{"start":8975.814,"end":8998.145,"text":"或者是電子競技實體場館的土地分區使用建築管理還有消防公安等場域規範必須有各個部會還有地方政府共同規範也就是說現在其實在很多目前我們手上看到的羅偉源的版本也好格偉源的版本也好你們的基本法裡面甚至很多其實沒有寫到這些而未來如果基本法真的三讀通過之後跟現在這些要怎麼競合"},{"start":8999.486,"end":9017.103,"text":"我還是沒有看到相關的說法我不認為這只是部會的責任我認為一個負責任的立法委員當你要提出一個你認為是舉世創新獨一無二的基本法的時候你讀後某一個單獨運動項目的時候你就必須要做這樣的法規盤點但很可惜我現在沒有看到"},{"start":9017.944,"end":9042.11,"text":"那我們來看一下台灣現在的現況剛剛很多人都會講到很多事情包含我相信主席一定非常在意選手的權益因為在您的版本裡面你提到了非常多權益的保障勞動權益的保障條約的處理其實我認為未來定型化契約絕對可以處理這個事情還有相關的兵役問題其實我們都有一些事情可以往下做因為時間有限我就不再贅述下一張"},{"start":9043.632,"end":9059.363,"text":"我們可能也擔心一些成癮的問題確實網路遊戲成癮目前在世界衛生組織的國際疾病分類已經正式列為精神疾病遊戲障礙症定義為一種遊戲行為模式而這個事情我不是說電子競技運動選手必然會有網路遊戲成癮的問題"},{"start":9061.485,"end":9087.214,"text":"但是我們在做所有的基本法法規的時候我們難道不用去擔心目前可能就已經產生的問題嗎所以為了這個事情韓國成立了公費治療中心為所謂的遊戲成癮者而馬來西亞透過推動教育預防跟治療進行這些事情都正在發生中這些都是一個負責任的立法者以及他們的辦公室必須要積極研究跟處理的"},{"start":9089.011,"end":9111.982,"text":"接下來我要說法治規定不宜操之過急我也想跟主席分享AI基本法2023、2024、2025青年基本法也是但是在那之前其實很多人就已經提了青年基本法烏斯亞委員一上任進入立法院他是全立法院第一個提出青年基本法而烏斯亞委員並不是在2023年提出所以我要說"},{"start":9113.203,"end":9141.013,"text":"有勇氣成為第一個提出基本法的委員固然令人佩服但是並不認為他可以草率的讓他過關甚至當時吳斯耀委員提出來的時候可能民進黨黨團在立法院裡面是多數可是並沒有以多數碾壓的方法想要讓這個基本法就草率過關所以我要再次公開呼籲跟拜託我相信今天所有願意出席質詢跟早上公聽會的委員跟學者專家絕對都尊重並且也認同照顧電競選手"},{"start":9142.233,"end":9166.228,"text":"扶植電競產業讓台灣的台灣遊戲廠商也好硬體設備廠商也好都可以因為相關的政策相關的預算覺得自己是被國家看見的被國家照顧的但是在那之前每一個委員所提出的質疑跟擔心都拜託部會要一起合作努力但同時委員們也必須給予相關政策制定的時間跟討論所以我要再次強調"},{"start":9167.569,"end":9177.006,"text":"法規制定當然重要相關的產業照顧當然重要相關權益者的權利照顧當然重要但如果只是為了過而過"},{"start":9178.442,"end":9200.027,"text":"那絕對不是人民的福利也不是一個合格夠好的優秀的立法委員該做的事情我要拜託主席三思當然後續我不確定我們在這個會期會發生什麼事情但是我要拜託各個部會未來在相關選手的權益保障產業的扶植設備廠商的照顧"},{"start":9200.947,"end":9201.167,"text":"好,谢谢"},{"start":9220.578,"end":9241.881,"text":"委員特別提到謝謝部長也跟委員特別報告上次委員有提到博弈相關的一些希望能夠排除所以我們在版本裡面有提到我們把博弈類別的也都把它全部排除那另外委員剛所提到的任天堂明星大亂鬥那因為他取消的是非官方的部分我們也可以看到他就是因為加以限制"},{"start":9242.762,"end":9255.3,"text":"希望在盈利的部分應該有所做一個嚴格的限制那後續2023年他也提出了相關的申請辦法授權所以看到遊戲原廠仗著自己有原廠"},{"start":9256.949,"end":9281.301,"text":"所以他們基本上需要更專業的窗口去對接所以他的複雜性特殊性這也是我們今天在公聽會不斷的討論的最後剛剛委員非常的用心整理了許多各部會所提供的服務政策我們看到這麼多的政策跟方法但十年了為什麼產業愛紅遍野"},{"start":9283.198,"end":9309.087,"text":"為什麼選手紛紛出走如果那些方法都有用的話今天我們也不希望繼續討論修改任何的政策最後今天如果那些方法都有用的話部長就不會在媒體受訪的時候也都坦承我們遇到很大的困境所以我相信委員的建議我們都會採納但也要回應一下委員"},{"start":9322.984,"end":9332.81,"text":"好跟委員說一下不好意思讓你覺得我是評價這想說回應一下因為剛剛你有不斷的點名我是的好的"},{"start":9337.298,"end":9362.406,"text":"好 我們沒有要評價 只是希望 因為剛剛委員有點名我所以我應該要跟你回應一下 謝謝欸 是不是 因為我剛剛有宣告了那我們是不是 OK了嗎因為剛剛有宣告說 好好要休息嗎 可以嗎好 那休息五分鐘 因為他們要上個廁所"},{"start":9368.052,"end":9377.585,"text":"你要十分鐘嗎因為剛剛十分鐘的時候你有寫擔心現在五分鐘還是十分鐘好 休息十分鐘"},{"start":9383.592,"end":9405.265,"text":"謝謝觀賞"},{"start":9405.485,"end":9406.645,"text":"請問大家的心態是如何?"},{"start":9434.381,"end":9444.85,"text":"那我一直會想要跟他談一談就讓他先頒獎還有就是我們那個過程當中我們曾經要跟他討論一下因為因為不曉得他的那個過程當中那後來那後來只是因為我有跟他討論"},{"start":9454.478,"end":9463.545,"text":"所以說,這兩周已經在那邊了我知道,他就是說三個月,不知道他把三個月賣掉所以說到往後,還是有可能這樣好,我已經不想拿我會去的生意跟...對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對"},{"start":9481.457,"end":9482.92,"text":"這兩張本在裡面寫了一張最高級的自我主辦方式"},{"start":9496.405,"end":9512.314,"text":"主辦它行動的行為,還是主辦它的教育的行為?我也不知道,就是我們下禮拜的教育那一個過程的話,我們要去研究到底還有哪些地方是我們可以切入,直接幫,因為我要去建構的那種社會認知就是,"},{"start":9515.556,"end":9529.587,"text":"即便沒有修法我運動不就用下禮拜我還會急急忙忙的為什麼這樣去做我們就把我們的東西加強做做更多這樣就好了我為什麼會急的時候下禮拜剛剛阿葵媽媽說我們下禮拜要做可以跟她們說讓妳們聽到請不用修法"},{"start":9531.969,"end":9550.359,"text":"可以當沒有那麼完整的在從行政、執行、法規、規範當中去做一些調查那個東西不滿意的而且很多人今天都已經提到這個課程了那其中的毛床就是那一層的毛床他不管你拿了什麼東西都買不出來給你你等一下就會拉這個了對啊你等一下一定會拉這個"},{"start":9555.822,"end":9558.41,"text":"有一個直置,有一個使命這樣子就把它從好處看嘛"},{"start":9565.891,"end":9575.479,"text":"對阿 等一下就看看就見證一下對 對 對我之後可能會做好兩碗雞肉然後吃一碗雞肉然後吃一碗雞肉然後吃一碗雞肉然後吃一碗雞肉然後吃一碗雞肉然後吃一碗雞肉"},{"start":9588.49,"end":9589.733,"text":"就像我們因為我們在台中"},{"start":9600.855,"end":9608.222,"text":"它是7英鎊的然後有10台是中國手機那它是中國的手機因為它現在那一隻手機還蠻便宜的它叫做"},{"start":9621.37,"end":9621.69,"text":"好好好"},{"start":9985.265,"end":10008.867,"text":"好 現在繼續開會我們有請伍麗華委員做詢答謝謝主席我今天在列席人員名單上看到"},{"start":10010.39,"end":10031.538,"text":"有12個次長來喔是 依照上次的會議節日那今天我還是單就運動部 邀請部長 謝謝有請部長委員您好部長 您有在玩電動競技遊戲嗎"},{"start":10035.523,"end":10050.521,"text":"上任之後比較少之前當選手的時候比較多那你都玩哪一家的哪一家我玩的遊戲應該就是英雄聯盟就是T0的英雄聯盟那就是黃仁勳他前幾天到韓國去"},{"start":10051.961,"end":10073.398,"text":"对会见的那一位那我其实今天问的这些问题应该您都比我还要熟在2024年我们都在注目棒球的12强赛的时候您应该很清楚其实当时在东京呢同时也办了一个电竞的实况野球"},{"start":10074.946,"end":10104.226,"text":"可是很少人知道我们在12强那一次台湾拿了冠军其实在前一天这个电竞实况野球的12强呢我们也拿到了亚军所以可以想见目前这个电竞游戏其实是在全世界算是一个显学甚至呢慢慢的就是纳入到各个重要的国际赛事里面"},{"start":10105.146,"end":10127.579,"text":"那在這裡就是我看到今年2026年亞運在民國務舉辦的他也有11項的電競遊戲其中呢就有您剛剛提到你玩的英雄聯盟那我只是想要請教一下請問這個是一個未來的趨勢嗎奧運未來也會有電競嗎"},{"start":10132.625,"end":10153.316,"text":"根文您報告那當然目前就我所知電競的項目應該還沒有到奧運的階段那我是說您預估因為看起來這是一個趨勢嘛有沒有可能有可能但也不太確定因為確實奧運項目跟亞運項目的部分確實不太一樣"},{"start":10158.382,"end":10159.843,"text":"那我为什么这样讲"},{"start":10189.123,"end":10210.456,"text":"106年運產條例我們也有納入了電子競技產業所以這個部分我想在今年有一個非常受矚目的電競俱樂部世界盃請教部長您知不知道何時舉行"},{"start":10211.94,"end":10236.126,"text":"跟我的您報告我確實不清楚好沒關係因為我們有準備齁今年呢它的賽事期間是在7月6號到8月23號那地點呢是在巴黎請教部長您知不知道主辦國是誰主辦單位它是哪個國家地點如果在巴黎應該是法國"},{"start":10237.168,"end":10262.827,"text":"就偏偏不是 所以我才故意問您其實主辦單位是沙烏地阿拉伯所以它也被稱為石油杯很多的玩家其實都非常非常的關注就是在今年7月6號即將登場的電競俱樂部世界杯那為什麼我這樣子要特別提這件事情因為我們現在都知道"},{"start":10263.647,"end":10287.688,"text":"其實部長我沒有打過這個電動我沒有玩過因為我的年紀在我年輕的時候我也不認識這個東西那我年紀大了工作嘛我也沒有接觸但是我知道的是光是在去年各大電競賽事的這個觀看的人數以您參與的英雄聯盟來講"},{"start":10289.309,"end":10304.598,"text":"有7億人7億人觀看所以像這個部分官視英雄聯盟的這個總冠軍賽單場的比賽同時觀看的人有673萬人就是同時的進場觀看"},{"start":10308.8,"end":10321.76,"text":"所以這個您玩的這個英雄聯盟呢他的這個T1電競流量他是電競流量王他這個全球前五收視隊伍他就是冠軍數字是1.9億小時"},{"start":10324.824,"end":10344.633,"text":"非常的誇張非常的誇張連我看了我也覺得說哇原來現在在我們的國際間竟然有這麼多的人喜歡這個電競可是反觀我們的國家目前到底有沒有電競系也查了一下高中"},{"start":10345.891,"end":10370.704,"text":"屈指可数大学屈指可数那这个就很奇怪了因为我们有这么多的人在参与在世界也打出这么好的成绩但是我们学校端这边我们却看到好像是很却步因为很多人说台湾没有这个环境"},{"start":10371.684,"end":10390.371,"text":"那實際上我這樣子看他確實是一個好的職業也是一個好的出路那麼很多人告訴我說他們是要到國外去受訓被培訓那也很多人被挖角到中國所以在這裡過去我剛剛講的在2008年到2016年間曾經由民間推動的這個台灣電子競技聯盟"},{"start":10399.154,"end":10424.822,"text":"他就嘎然而止非常的可惜很多人很懷念所以縱觀起來就是缺乏這種長期穩定而且具備制度性的一個競賽平台我們可以說非常可惜所以這個部分我就是想要拜託一下部長您就是能不能夠建立一個跨部會的電競人才培育機制為什麼我講跨部會"},{"start":10425.842,"end":10454.333,"text":"你看今天邀請在座有一位部長然後11位的次長坐在我們當中運動部教育部經濟部速發部等等相關的部會我們來盤點產業人才的需求像是主播可以做賽評還有這些後端的人員像做設備的或者是軟體製造的等等"},{"start":10455.314,"end":10465.005,"text":"那部長您覺得就是我們除了選手之外其實這個電競人才的培育之外還有很多產業人才的需求部長這個部分您的看法如何"},{"start":10465.731,"end":10486.867,"text":"我想跟委員您報告那當然我想電子競技運動以及電子競技產業我想這部分是我們很多部會需要共同來努力的那當然就電子競技運動的部分我們運動部絕對會來著手積極的來幫助選手在未來的栽培以及這個退役後的照顧我想這是我們運動部會來處理的"},{"start":10488.588,"end":10502.387,"text":"谢谢部长你有听到我们运动部会主动积极的针对人才培育也好产业人才需求会主动积极的来盘点那另外一个部分就是关于这个人才的资料库"},{"start":10503.778,"end":10530.711,"text":"為什麼我剛剛講高中屈指可數大學屈指可數我覺得要長期的追蹤啊才有辦法做出有效的政策那畢業的人數到底有多少就業有多少他們的平均薪資多少他們流向什麼地方我覺得這個部分一定要來趕快建立一個電競產業人才資料庫那部長這個部分運動部也做得到嗎"},{"start":10531.957,"end":10557.257,"text":"我想电子经济产业人才资料库我想这部分应该会由我们运动部跟教育部来去合作的当然要合作那是不是由运动部来主责这点我们应该必须的嘛谢谢好那我想要跟部长分享一件事其实我来自原乡啊原住民乡啊"},{"start":10558.973,"end":10587.976,"text":"我看到一個現象有時候我也覺得很感慨為什麼呢其實在四五十年前開始流行那個機台其實很有趣可能是因為山上的娛樂太少山上呢什麼都落後都市都有一大段的落差可是呢每當流行某些東西的時候你會發現原鄉它流行的速度"},{"start":10589.209,"end":10616.123,"text":"比都市還要熱烈像40年前我們那個原鄉的機台好多很多家家戶戶呢他們會跟人家合作那個機台然後呢就賺那個投幣10塊錢就靠這個營生所以你會發現突然之間學校很煩惱好多的小朋友一下課或者翹課他們就是跑到那個地方玩機台投幣"},{"start":10617.424,"end":10631.799,"text":"那二三十年前呢開始流行什麼網咖學校都還沒有電腦的時候好多部落的雜貨店也好或者他們自己跟一些廠商合作部落竟然出現好多的電腦"},{"start":10633.689,"end":10656.304,"text":"所以我就是很感慨但是我們的電競產業照理說應該也要在原鄉很流行啊但是部長我跟你講就是很奇妙四五十年前機台原鄉遍布流行二三十年前網咖原鄉遍布流行就很奇怪電競沒有 我直到現在我都看不到你知道為什麼嗎"},{"start":10658.357,"end":10669.765,"text":"因為這個電 蛤 哇 我跟您說因為這個電競齁 它不是十分鐘就可以解決的它也不是投十元硬幣就可以玩得到的"},{"start":10670.816,"end":10689.628,"text":"那也不是我們部落的這些人他有辦法跟廠商合作放在家裡擺個幾台的為什麼因為他不是普通的電腦就可以做得到的他也不是普通的網速就可以做得到的他也不是很便宜的顯示卡記憶體可以做到的"},{"start":10690.248,"end":10714.78,"text":"所以這個是需要有錢的才有辦法去玩這個電競所以呢我們在國民體育法44條有看到各級政府會推行國民體育應普設公共運動設施並提供適性適齡的記載可是我就是今天想要請教一下部長您的意見如何落實我們各族群也能夠參與電競運動"},{"start":10717.642,"end":10740.109,"text":"部長您認為呢跟委員您報告那當然我想這部分除了國民體育法第44條我想我們運動部未來一定會持續的在運動團體這邊去結合虛擬以及電子競技推動相關不管是在原鄉還是我們銀髮族早上在公聽會的時候也有聽到銀髮族的部分我想這是我們運動部會來努力的好"},{"start":10740.609,"end":10758.809,"text":"所以我希望運動部也能夠一併的來盤點全國電競場館還有它的設備資源的分布那我們也希望有機會有公共的電競空間電競的體驗中心或者是讓我們原偏鄉的學校學生他們也有機會能夠參與體驗這樣可以嗎"},{"start":10762.045,"end":10790.223,"text":"跟委員報告那是不是我們去盤點一下確認是否可行好那沒關係我剛剛那些訴求我都希望大概三個月內就給我資料那我還有一個部分要介紹給部長您知不知道原鄉幾乎每個部落都有文化健康站簡稱文件站就是2016年蔡英文政府上任之後廣設文件站"},{"start":10791.55,"end":10811.057,"text":"每個部落幾乎都有那我不曉得說您有沒有看過我們這些長者他們在玩電競你有看過嗎跟委員報告這部影片確實有看過很紅對不對我覺得說大家都回到了好像是年輕人好像是孩子我看了我也很感動"},{"start":10811.937,"end":10839.443,"text":"那因為現在邁入超高齡又加上失智症是現今社會的一個重要議題所以我也很希望說運動部能不能夠跟衛福部來合作推動這個引髮電競的事辦計畫又或者說推動這個樂齡據點這些關懷據點這些日照中心這些文件站他們也可以一起來辦電競活動運動部辦理的有可能嗎 部長"},{"start":10840.662,"end":10867.371,"text":"跟委員您報告我想這部分就如同委員您說的這個我們在台灣現在面臨超高齡社會那如果我們能與這個衛福部一同來合作然後讓這一個失智症可以減緩的話我想這是我們運動部會來努力的那謝謝部長其實我就是要表達其實也許我們台灣的電競選手雖然成績很好也許不是像飛殼一樣韓國的被人家看見"},{"start":10868.351,"end":10885.828,"text":"但是有一个东西绝对会被干净就是那一些软硬体设备你看我们台湾的这些品牌ASUS 华硕的ROG或者是BenQ的Zowie又或者是这个维星或者是技嘉的这个ORUS这个都是台湾厂牌啊"},{"start":10887.529,"end":10906.608,"text":"絕對要玩電競絕對會接觸這些所以我們是世界電競的周邊大國那它的產值也有報導2029年產值會突破12億美元所以我想很多人都在電競玩家都在說台灣的品牌在台灣買並沒有比在國外買便宜所以我希望運動部經濟部"},{"start":10909.05,"end":10932.476,"text":"強化國內電競市場的規模跟消費的一個環境甚至是推廣一些像無人機足球等等所以我今天的訴求就是我覺得建立國家電競人才的培育體系縮減城鄉族群接觸電競資源的落差推動引發電競跟健康的促進扶植電競設備跟賽事的產業優化國際賽事培訓跟參賽制度部長"},{"start":10938.377,"end":10962.315,"text":"這些都能做得到嗎?跟委員報告如果上述我們能做到的部分我們運動部絕對會來努力的有編列經費嗎?明年的部分我們確實有編列相關的預算目前編列是為三千萬那我們希望藉由這樣的編列預算讓這個電子競技運動的發展能夠更加的明確也足以表示我們運動部以及各位委員所重視的電子競技運動這個項目的發展那部長我的"},{"start":10964.176,"end":10990.559,"text":"看法意见是这样因为今天我们罗廷伟他很关心这个电竞基本法那我们也有很多的讨论大家说怕未来每一种运动有没有可能都来立一个基本法那又或者说电竞很重要那我们是不是要修在什么国民体育法的一个专章里面我不知道但是我只是要表达今天我们站在这边我们都肯认"},{"start":10991.46,"end":11009.434,"text":"这个电竞确实是一个国际的趋势也是一个好生意是一个好产业也是一个好出路好职业这个我们都非常的肯定我们也希望运动部能够联合其他的部会赶快把这一些建立起来"},{"start":11010.454,"end":11036.744,"text":"讓我們也能夠成為一個不僅僅是電腦周邊電競周邊產業的強國大國我們的選手也能夠成為一個電競世界所矚目那但是在這邊就是如果這些您都做得到經費你也都編列那當然我想我們沒有什麼其他的意見所以呢就是希望我們運動部在這邊針對這些我是希望說三個月內給我一份書面報告可以嗎"},{"start":11038.344,"end":11055.272,"text":"呃跟委員報告那針對上述的這些議題我們會請這相關同仁在三個月呃呃提供這個比較完整的報告給委員您好謝謝委員好謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝委員有請羅志祥委員謝謝"},{"start":11063.574,"end":11066.096,"text":"有請羅廷威委員有請部長有請部長"},{"start":11086.735,"end":11109.677,"text":"委員您好好謝謝部長許多委員提到公聽會排上午下午尋答加審查認為很倉促那也要跟大家特別報告其實過往是有案例的那我們持續來努力也感謝大家給予意見那我想部長今天想跟你提到如果你們今天提出了電子競技運動發展相關的補助辦法"},{"start":11113.851,"end":11127.507,"text":"你們今天有提出數位科技運動項目輔導獎勵及補助辦法來取代這一次我們提出的要來做一個電子競技運動發展基本法的一個替代方案"},{"start":11128.968,"end":11156.163,"text":"對吧這是你們今天提出的一個補助辦法是嗎公委員您報告那當然在數位科技運動項目輔導獎勵及補助辦法這個是我們希望說我想這是運動部跟各位委員所認同在電子競技運動這個項目我們來去努力的當然當然但我要講的是補助沒有不好嘛那我們都希望要有補助嘛那但是只給錢就夠嗎我想問一下我先跟你請問剛剛你有提到說你明年要編列預算3000萬"},{"start":11157.324,"end":11180.041,"text":"对吧其中这三千万呢有补助六都的赛事对吗六都争霸赛以及其他的如果有相关的电子竞技运动的请问一下过往有补助吗过往在电竞的六都争霸赛如果就我了解的话是有补助的有补助嘛对不对对所以过往就有做明年还要做所以明年"},{"start":11180.962,"end":11206.785,"text":"你就要做以往在做的事情講的好像這三千萬是強心針是只要有這三千萬我們可以超越韓國我覺得這是另外一件事情我們要來探討的但是我想電競產業界看到這個答案心裡應該非常無奈啊這過往不就有了嗎補助的辦法不就是現行的機制嗎運動部本來就可以在既有的法制擴大補助啊所以擴大補助的範圍"},{"start":11207.527,"end":11214.387,"text":"這些理所當然可以做也應該做但問題是如果把既有的補助工具重新包裝一次"},{"start":11215.461,"end":11239.613,"text":"那到底解決了什麼問題如果今天運動部只想用辦法來替代專法本質上我們就看到也是用體育官僚的框架去限制一個新興產業的一個想像嘛那剛剛我們許多的委員都說我們要跨部會做人才的培育跨部會做產業的建置可是這就是跨部會然後你告訴我你要用辦法"},{"start":11240.513,"end":11253.023,"text":"來告訴所有的部會我們要來處理這不就是跟大家講我們用一個沒有法律位階甚至是沒有強制的一個辦法然後來告訴跨部會我們要動起來再來"},{"start":11254.482,"end":11281.772,"text":"我們一直在講黃仁勛去看韓國的時候特別去見T1的電競選手他一直在講沒有網咖沒有電競就不會有今天的回答所以他看到的是電競背後的晶片AI顯示卡還有伺服器遊戲直播粉絲經濟青年文化全球市場今天我們在成立運動部就是希望要把這一個最新的思維"},{"start":11283.571,"end":11301.306,"text":"國際的趨勢把它納進去要仰賴您年輕的思維可是我們還在講電競放注補助的項目這樣子的一個狹隘思維而已所以我要問幾個問題要有請部長回答我一下今天提出電競產業相關問題有哪一個是運動部用預算"},{"start":11306.311,"end":11327.5,"text":"用補助辦法可以解決的第一首先場館運動部報告第8頁有說食物困境是現行的法規在專業的場館設施跟基礎環境方面尚無明確的分級規範自電競場館跟一般的網咖經常被外界混淆"},{"start":11328.28,"end":11344.717,"text":"缺乏專屬公共認證安全的標準使選手難以在一般商業場域中享有專心的安心的訓練場域請問一下這個是靠預算這個是靠補助辦法可以解決的問題嗎"},{"start":11346.82,"end":11366.054,"text":"跟委員您報告,首先您剛剛提到的這個部分我想這不只是電競一個項目可以來去講我想很多項目應該都會遇到相關的問題好,那所以我要講就是說我們還是回過頭來如果在既有就有的現行機制我們已經做到場館的認證那為什麼現在還沒有場館,場館這麼少"},{"start":11371.348,"end":11378.481,"text":"餐館沒有林立而且你還在自己的報告裡面寫說現行的確遇到困境第二個我們要問的是"},{"start":11379.608,"end":11398.266,"text":"我們現在看到韓國T1它本身在電競主題式的網咖但韓國把它做成戰隊品牌粉絲經濟硬體體驗賽事文化社群基地台灣不是沒有網咖文化但是時代已經不同了我們的政府能夠借盡整個韓國的建構新思維這個問題是運動部補助辦法能夠處理的嗎我不認為再來講到人才"},{"start":11403.15,"end":11426.137,"text":"剛剛一直在講跨部會跨部會人才人才人才專業的體育熟悉是選手教練但電競產業更需要是賽事直播導播OBS的專業技術網路工程師甚至數據分析師這是一個整個數位內容產業鏈這個部分單靠現在的3000萬預算單靠現在的補助辦法我們可以解決嗎"},{"start":11428.237,"end":11457.102,"text":"我認為不行所以你今天也有承認我們的確有很大的進步空間啊所以我不是說不要補助啊我是擔心補助三千萬夠嗎可不可以更多但是只有給錢能夠解決現在的困境嗎我曾經問過一個戰隊的經營者幫他再募集更多的經費他說不用了他要收攤了再多的經費沒有用環境太差再來是授權"},{"start":11459.237,"end":11481.557,"text":"電競如果沒有原廠授權你連辦職業聯賽轉播都不行運動部有任何的政策工具可以跟國際大原廠來做談判和對接的授權嗎他沒有任何的政策工具耶只靠補助辦法那我想問一下今天經濟部今天文化部我們再麻煩一下"},{"start":11487.526,"end":11509.292,"text":"所以我想問一下我們各部會遇到原廠授權的一個問題我今天如果我是賽事想要舉辦我是產業產業來詢問第一當然我要問運動部我是產業我要取得原廠授權然後將原廠的這些賽事帶來台灣那請問一下運動部有補助嗎"},{"start":11514.994,"end":11542.832,"text":"跟委員您報告那首先我覺得還是要先明確的了解到委員您對於電子競技基本法這個電競到底屬於這個運動還是電競產業我想這兩者都有我們要明確定義的當然當然要定義所以我們用這些法規就是希望把它定義清楚嘛但我要問運動部有補助賽事授權嗎應該沒有吧應該是以選手為主吧目前就我了解到當然我們還是以選手選手為主嘛好來經濟部"},{"start":11544.688,"end":11570.941,"text":"賽事授權是授權這個是屬於一種商業行為所以我想這個還是要看合約合約怎麼去約束經濟部目前有這樣子的補助辦法嗎目前是沒有不好意思速發部抱歉速發部謝謝運動賽事的部分想請問一下產業跟我們反映他跑速發部速發部"},{"start":11572.457,"end":11591.169,"text":"有可能会跟他讲说经济部这个部分速发部对于我们现在产业在制作游戏是给予高度的关心对吧那我现在问你嘛我要举办赛事了那我要取得授权速发部可以帮忙吗目前在这个赛事授权上我没有补助对嘛"},{"start":11592.304,"end":11610.943,"text":"所以問題就在這嘛問運動部運動部說是選手嘛經濟部說要看合約基本上是沒有這個補助嘛那速發部現在只有對我們台灣製造遊戲有給予高度的關心但是賽事的授權卻完全無能為力啊那我們要一直這些國際的賽事基本上都是國際原廠在做的"},{"start":11611.804,"end":11632.595,"text":"我們要取得真的很困難那很多的產業都一直在說這個困境我們要把這些賽事引到台灣才可以蓬勃發展更多的賽事才會有更多的選手更多的選手拿得多得佳績產業就會蓬勃發展可是回到源頭賽事的授權沒有一個部會可以具體提出實際的幫忙"},{"start":11634.71,"end":11649.583,"text":"所以我們今天才要分工我跟大家報告我不是鐵板一塊我不是說什麼都是我們定的一定為主一定都是最好我們希望納入廣大大家的意見今天所有坐在這邊的委員也都很認真也都很關心電競"},{"start":11650.504,"end":11666.405,"text":"但是我拜託大家救救電競我拜託大家懇請部會不要只用一個辦法告訴我們你有辦法救電競我希望所有的委員能夠幫我們提出更好的精進方式讓整個電競能夠活絡起來我真的要懇求大家"},{"start":11669.032,"end":11697.275,"text":"絕對不是只有我關心電競所有的委員都關心可是沒有人提出一個具體的方法實際整個部會行政體系告訴我們用辦法就能解決用補助就能解決那為什麼我們現在整個選手都在出逃為什麼整個產業都不敢蓬勃發展為什麼我們輸給韓國我好想贏韓國所以我要拜託剛剛光提到這些東西我們都沒有辦法解決了拜託大家"},{"start":11698.359,"end":11718.994,"text":"提出更具體的政策工具告訴我怎麼解決而不是告訴我你的辦法你修的專法你處理的基本法有很多的疑慮所以我們完全不做等了10年了還在講可能要更完善等了10年了從2017我們把他納入到電子"},{"start":11720.4,"end":11747.815,"text":"競技運動產業發展條例到現在都沒有在更進一步的有所發展剛剛還有人在講快打旋風有人奪得世界冠軍就我所知道那個時候他奪世界冠軍的時候還在說我們基本上給予很大的幫助有嗎沒有選手也在說我奪得佳績大家都知道但是這個過程有多辛苦要籌措自己的經費有多辛苦因為他沒有奧運"},{"start":11752.15,"end":11768.619,"text":"所以我們看到韓國並不是把電競簡化成一般的遊戲管理而是在既有的遊戲產業法制之外另外以電子競技振興法建立獨立的政策架構從政府的責任地方的推動長期的人才培育還有場館的設施賽事項目"},{"start":11772.061,"end":11799.947,"text":"產業的資源 國際的交流財源的確保到獎勵的機制都先用法律定下的基本方式基本的方向再透過後續的制度滾動式修正嘛所以韓國自2012年制定本法歷經2016 2018 20222020四次的修正四次的修正一部法令也需要大家關切努力讓它更好啊可是現在告訴我們我們應該暫停我們用辦法就好"},{"start":11801.604,"end":11829.678,"text":"那為什麼我們選手出逃所以我知道大家關心棒球籃球羽球任何一個球類運動任何一個運動我們都支持我們都希望能夠加倍的關心給予公平的關心但是我們現在看到了政策工具沒有辦法幫助電競他是一個真正看到法規的漏洞希望大家能夠搶救他我還是要再講一次現在電競是孤兒"},{"start":11831.564,"end":11849.218,"text":"我們只是想要先確認到底誰能夠接住他連基本的接住都沒有辦法只是告訴他這邊可以幫你一點點那邊可以幫你一點點那邊可以幫你一點點跨部會結果呢剛剛光問一個遊戲授權各部會都沒有辦法"},{"start":11851.331,"end":11863.412,"text":"所以我還是期待運動部能夠成為整個運動發展的領航者台灣多次真的多次拿到世界的冠軍我也一直在拜託我相信部長你也承諾我就是"},{"start":11865.188,"end":11883.441,"text":"就職以後有跟很多的運動選手電競選手座談對吧我確實有這樣做對我也相信你不會騙人我相信所以我們不只一次跟產業跟運動選手溝通嘛可是問題是為什麼我一直要排這個議程就是我發現還是沒有動靜啊"},{"start":11885.074,"end":11899.582,"text":"對不起我不是說你沒有做是我需要更大更大的一個政策工具讓整個振興起來沒有啊我看到你有關心可是產業一直在沒落關心真的不夠我們一起加油好不好謝謝委員謝謝"},{"start":11913.257,"end":11933.568,"text":"今天登记的委员发言完毕,询答结束。对于委员咨询所要求的相关资料,或者是未及时回复的,麻烦请尽速以书面答复。另外,由委员柯志恩、林倩琪提出书面咨询,列入记录干登公报,并请相关机关以书面答复。"},{"start":11941.846,"end":11950.944,"text":"繼續進行法案主條審查未立於討論需準備協商的場地現在休息五分鐘現在休息"},{"start":12268.065,"end":12289.61,"text":"請問一下休息的時間到了請問我們的召委在哪裡我們一掛委員在這邊那個專委知道召委在哪裡嗎因為他剛宣布五分鐘請問那個對大羅羅志強委員您知道小羅羅廷維委員到哪裡嗎我們都在等他"},{"start":12292.52,"end":12301.424,"text":"因為有今天的會議時間剩下最後5分鐘那朝委總是要來做一個才是大家在等著他大羅委員您也離場了嗎"},{"start":12312.489,"end":12324.116,"text":"還是你要幫我們call一下小羅委員因為朝偉不在我們剩下5分鐘剩下4分27秒好太好了朝偉回來了現在繼續開會"},{"start":12337.554,"end":12341.276,"text":"我們是一起下去嗎我想做程序動議謝謝主席"},{"start":12359.109,"end":12376.528,"text":"零一級委員陳秀寶委員郭育晴委員吳佩儀委員吳思瑤委員陳培育委員以及本席呢針對本日會議議程繼續審查委員羅廷偉等21人擬拒電子競技運動發展基本法草案等案"},{"start":12377.89,"end":12392.51,"text":"為了要使行政部門妥善回應電競發展的需求研議相關發展政策與配套措施又加上今天的公聽會蒐整到非常多寶貴的意見"},{"start":12394.673,"end":12409.674,"text":"所以呢在质询当中各位委员也都很重视也提供非常多的诉求希望运动部能够来做回应提出书面报告所以呢希望相关的立法作为为求慎重"},{"start":12411.436,"end":12439.867,"text":"那又加上剛才趙委您在質詢的時候有提到說您也不是鐵板一塊所以你請做成如下決議今天的會議是不是僅進行報告及詢答完畢那相關的法案審查令定期審議 以上謝謝首先先跟所有的委員報告我們待會還有一個在主條討論之前還有一個大體"},{"start":12442.994,"end":12466.761,"text":"對我們的主張就是今天完成尋答就好因為大體也是進入審查對不起基本上也可以可以可以但基本上我們的那個動議要優先處理我們的動議要優先處理所以是不是請委員就依我們這樣子去順順的走下去我們的動議就算剩下兩分鐘我們的動議也是我們的主張交委應當要處理來動議已經送了書面資料來"},{"start":12474.266,"end":12479.352,"text":"因為我沒有看到書面資料我們是不是就處理因為我們這麼多委員都我們提案委員都在場都在等我們處理我們的動議請議事人員宣讀 謝謝"},{"start":12496.089,"end":12522.692,"text":"针对本日会议一层继续审查委员罗廷伟等21人拟据电子竞技运动发展基本法查案等案为使行政部门妥善回应电竞发展需求并研议相关发展政策与配套措施且相关立法作为为求慎重拟请作成如下决议本日会议仅进行报告及寻找完毕相关法案令定期审议"},{"start":12523.573,"end":12529.295,"text":"主席請處理我們的動議謝謝謝謝那本席已經收到了有委員所提出的相關動議我們現在處理動議好我們贊成我們的提案有請"},{"start":12553.924,"end":12568.898,"text":"我們請舉手投票對對對在場有沒有人有異議沒有沒有人有異議就通過啦現場有委員有異議嗎沒有"},{"start":12572.861,"end":12595.759,"text":"那我們處理動議基本上呢我也要跟大家報告我們也是希望到五點半啦但動議還是要處理啦當然要處理當然要處理但最後剩下幾秒嘛我跟大家報告一下我不會放棄的我們也不會放棄的跟賴清德總統一樣我不會放棄的我不會放棄的我不會放棄的好我們今天通過謝謝"},{"start":12598.496,"end":12624.104,"text":"我們也不會放棄合理爭取每一個運動項目合理平等發展的權利所以大家一起努力關注這個基本法之外也關注所有的運動秩序剛剛在場是沒有異議通過沒有異議通過 這個還是要記錄剛剛是無異議通過這個提案所以在場所有的委員都同意定期處理好 報告委員會今天的會議進行到此 現在散會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}