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大家好今天大院審查本會一百一十五年度的預算案以下僅就一百一十四年的預算執行情形以及一百一十五年度預算編列概括以及一百一十五年度預算配合施政計畫編列等三個部分做扼要的報告"},{"start":2283.012,"end":2286.116,"text":"在114年稅率預算編列589,000元,決算685,000元,執行率是116.30那稅數的部分,含追加預算5707"},{"start":2298.31,"end":2304.275,"text":"共編列的9億208萬2000元決算數是8億6047萬元執行率是93.39我要特別強調114年我們的這些預算可以說是入委會創會以來刪除幅度最大的一年影響了業務推展我們希望在115年能夠獲得各位委員的支持讓業務能夠順利推動"},{"start":2327.834,"end":2343.785,"text":"在115年預算編列的概換在稅入的部分本會155年稅入編列是594,000元那在稅出的部分本會在稅出是總共編列的10億45468,000元較去年預算增編了1億4338,000元"},{"start":2351.85,"end":2365.818,"text":"萬六千元主要是針對兩岸事務的經費六千三百六十七萬八千元及捐助海基會辦理政府委託的四項經費四千三百零四萬元在一百"},{"start":2366.678,"end":2385.643,"text":"一十五年度配合預算施政計畫編列的情形我們在綜合業務方面我們編列了兩千九百八十九萬六千元佔比百分之二點八六工作重點是分析兩岸中國大陸內外部情勢以及中共對台政策持續"},{"start":2386.583,"end":2399.45,"text":"強化與國內外學術機關及智庫的交流合作辦理兩岸相關的座談研究民意調查作為兩岸議題作為政府研議兩岸議題這個應處的建議參考並加強與地方政府的聯繫協處兩岸的事務在經濟業務部分我們編列了2913萬9千元占比2.79工作重點為延縮中國大陸經濟國際經濟"},{"start":2416.559,"end":2434.504,"text":"動態及情勢變化,密注中國大陸對台經貿的政策措施及兩岸經貿發展趨勢動態調整兩岸經貿政策及互動策略政府本於強本固台風險管理的原則強化兩岸經貿風險管控及經濟安全韌性"},{"start":2437.705,"end":2451.652,"text":"推動健康有序對等交流,協助台商降低風險多元佈局,以因應中國大陸對台經貿統戰及經濟脅迫在法政業務部分,我們編列2億7983萬1千元,佔比26.77其中捐助海基會2億5306萬,佔比24.21工作重點在完善兩岸相關法規"},{"start":2462.817,"end":2480.908,"text":"強化民主及安全防衛機制及人員交流安全管理協助兩岸人員往來遭遇問題精進兩岸人員身份的管理制度強化公務員及特定人員附路管理同時落實海峽兩岸共同打擊犯罪及司法互助協議等法證內的協議執行維護國人權益"},{"start":2485.171,"end":2506.999,"text":"我們也持續會辦理緊急服務電話及關懷簡訊的發送以及本會國人賦入港澳動態登錄系統的使用宣導優化國人賦入人身安全協處機制提升海基會服務效能以落實政府委託事項在港澳門帳業務我們編列了一億三千四百"},{"start":2509.141,"end":2512.947,"text":"其中捐助撤進費3476萬1千元佔比3.32%香港辦事處及澳門辦事處我們是編列8158萬5千元佔7.8%"},{"start":2523.402,"end":2549.463,"text":"那工作重點在持續關注港澳的情勢發展同時採取相關的應處措施完善交流規範及交流管理強化安全提醒及資訊的揭露維持駐港機構的服務功能為時推動與港澳良性互動關懷聯繫在台港澳人士建構公司協議的互助網絡在服務的業務我們編列了3061萬4千元佔比2.92"},{"start":2553.286,"end":2579.763,"text":"工作重點為積極運用多元溝通管道仔細說明政府兩岸政策另外因應中共對台進行的複合性的認知作戰及統戰滲透的威脅我們期待能夠透過多元傳播管道強化防制跟澄清錯假訊息持續推展國內外媒體互動及聯繫掌握與其動態及時回應媒體所關切的兩岸議題"},{"start":2581.144,"end":2598.423,"text":"那我們也期待能夠增加政府兩岸政策的國際網路聲量爭取國際社會及民主同盟有我力量持續強化兩岸政策議題在國會的溝通、諮詢跟聯繫的工作同時提升各界對政府"},{"start":2598.983,"end":2614.332,"text":"兩岸政策的認同與支持在文教業務我們編列了3885萬2000元佔比3.72工作重點為穩健推動兩岸學術教育體育文化等文教交流健康有序進行"},{"start":2615.834,"end":2637.714,"text":"發揮兩岸文教交流的正面效益同時結合政府與民間的學術專業資源協助我們青少年學生多面向的深入了解中國大陸的實際狀況及兩岸關係的發展同時促進兩岸學生青年良性互動體驗台灣多元社會文化"},{"start":2638.374,"end":2653.216,"text":"透過多元管道傳遞台灣自由民主價值及社會人文發展特色促進兩岸資訊對等的交流落實政府照顧中國大陸台商子女政策協助載入台商子女"},{"start":2654.298,"end":2675.975,"text":"與台灣教育的接軌我們在一般行政編列了五億一百一十三萬五千元佔比四十七點九三主要是人事費及基本行政維運及加強行政管理的相關費用希望能夠提高工作效能以順利支援業務的執行"},{"start":2680.557,"end":2700.448,"text":"結與面對兩岸情勢複雜多變與中共持續對台複合性的施壓本會作為兩岸事務的統籌協調機關即需要維持相應的預算以為因應為國家安全人民福祉維護兩岸和平穩定繁榮的現狀本會將本於職責"},{"start":2703.449,"end":2724.583,"text":"穩健務實推動兩岸政策致力維護我國家利益與民眾福祉以上報告敬請各位委員賜教並鼎力支持 謝謝好 謝謝陸委會邱垂政主委下一位我們請袁明慧 曾志勇主委報告 謝謝"},{"start":2732.642,"end":2752.539,"text":"主席 各位委員 女士先生感謝各位委員長期以來對本會的支持與指教使得延續民主的業務能夠穩健的推進逐步展現施政的成果在此由衷的感謝以下僅就本會115年預算編制的情形以及重點進行報告"},{"start":2753.98,"end":2780.268,"text":"敬請各位委員不吝指教本會即所屬一百一十五年度的稅務預算編列六千九百零二萬兩千稅出預算編列一百五十五億七千六百六十六萬兩千含一般的補助款二十六億八百六十六萬三千編列的項目說明如下第一 綜合規劃發展的編列是八億"},{"start":2781.648,"end":2799.33,"text":"7745萬5千元那裡面是含一般的這個一般一般性的補助6億4千萬元主要是落實原住民族權益以及保障體現及原住民的智慧治理以及補助原住民族第七基本設施的維持會"},{"start":2800.063,"end":2828.525,"text":"第二 原住民族教育推展編列二十六億六百一十六萬六千含一般性的補助款五億七千四百二十萬主要是推動原住民族語言教育文化與媒體的傳承與發展第三 社會服務推展以及促進原住民族就業共編列三十七億兩千五百二十萬含一般性的補助兩億八千三百七十萬"},{"start":2829.946,"end":2846.367,"text":"主要是強化原住民族健康服務以及社會福利創造原住民族穩定就業的機會公共建設的業務編列十億七千一百一十九萬主要是提供原住民多元"},{"start":2847.472,"end":2873.847,"text":"的這個基柱服務以及改善原住民族地區部落特色道路的橋樑擋土以及排水等設施第五促進原住民族經濟事業編列60億8279萬主要是補助辦理原住民族保留地進化補償以及撥補綜合發展基金的事宜六土地規劃管理利用業務編列1億9000"},{"start":2876.761,"end":2905.052,"text":"一億九百五十三萬三千主要是保障原住民族土地的權益落實原住民族土地的正義第七經濟發展業務編列三億八千六百一十五萬含一般性的補助一億五千一百七十一萬主要是辦理前方位創新創業的輔導資源強化原住民族經濟產業的韌性並且創造實質經濟的收益第八一般行政以及第一類"},{"start":2906.161,"end":2933.439,"text":"以及第一被經共編列3億2532萬主要是本會人員人事會員以及基本行政工作的維持會第九國立研究民族博物館籌備業務編列2億7533萬主要是辦理國立研究民族博物館延期的興建計畫以及基本行政的工作維持會第十文化發展中心編列1億1746萬"},{"start":2936.521,"end":2960.965,"text":"主要是輔導原住民族地方文化館的營運還有改善文化延期的服務設施並且推動原住民族文化藝術傳承以及發展另外在本會主管附屬單位預算非營業基金的部分包含原住民族綜合發展基金以及就業基金115年度共編列收入部分是69億4945萬"},{"start":2964.932,"end":2989.412,"text":"支出的部分是六十六億四千八百一十四萬那收支相抵之後預計會剩餘數是三億一百三十萬五千本會及所屬一百一十五年度的預算主要是配合政府整體的施政以及財政一業務實際需要妥善編列未來將全力推動各項的施政工作"},{"start":2990.112,"end":2999.834,"text":"是預算支援發揮最大的效能來回應主人的期待以上報告敬請各位委員鼎力支持謝謝大家好謝謝那其他單位報告請各位委員自行參閱那接下來"},{"start":3016.721,"end":3040.978,"text":"我們進行詢答那委員執行前原例做以下宣告本會及原住民委員會執行時間5分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘非本委員會執行5分鐘上午10點半截止登記發言因為今天預算詢答所以本次會議不處理臨時提案請問各位委員有沒有意見"},{"start":3042.503,"end":3050.068,"text":"好 那沒有意見的話 我們現在開始進行詢答第一位我們先請許中信委員進行質詢 謝謝主席 各位同仁我們有請陸委會邱學正 邱主委請邱主委議員早"},{"start":3071.91,"end":3097.352,"text":"這個禮拜一,6月15日自由時報A4版以一個滑鼠瓣大小的大幅報導台東縣長饒慶齡以錄影的方式在海峽論壇表示感謝祝福支持農民根據這個報導四次提到官員"},{"start":3098.866,"end":3124.525,"text":"講到這個可能違反兩岸人民關係條例33條之一的合作行為可能要一處那麼這位官員あの人は大名ですよ他會去日本話這個官員是大名喔能夠讓自由時報大幅報導4次這個人是誰"},{"start":3128.425,"end":3146.467,"text":"這位官員是誰?你若不跟他說,我不會像林淑芬這樣說,擦擦擦,我會說你有惡意,你跟他拿你的補償來打這個基金,你若不跟他說,我就請教不中這個問題,你若不跟他說,你把他請出來,我請教。"},{"start":3150.254,"end":3172.76,"text":"好 謝謝徐委員這樣你有膽子 你比較對你的補償來承擔責任我最擔心的就是這個主管補償做得不好的 你打起來補償做得好的 都補償的功勞這是好的主管所以我現在要跟主委來請教這個法律問題比較難喔是是是兩岸人民關係條例33條之一第一項"},{"start":3178.902,"end":3201.456,"text":"第二項都提到合作行為這個合作行為我們海基會跟海協會尤其海基會在蘇嘉全董事長羅文嘉秘書長就任以後積極認識想要透過各種管道跟對岸接觸穩定兩岸關係促進"},{"start":3206.209,"end":3231.95,"text":"我們台商在對岸的發展一定是會用非常多的管道來進行所以這個合作行為的概念你如果擴大漫無限制的擴大你會變成海基跟海協海基會跟中國對岸很多黨政可以避得開"},{"start":3234.007,"end":3262.797,"text":"黨軍可以避得開但是政你避不開以及海基會跟我們對岸很多人民團體機構沒辦法透過各種管道來加以交流嚴重性非常的大所以主委是這一個合作行為是中性的他的邏輯是這樣是跟對岸黨政軍推定有政治性不可以進行"},{"start":3264.585,"end":3292.702,"text":"如果是非跟對岸黨政軍不可以有政治內涵也就是說合作行為如果跟黨政軍示威或推定有政治性不可以進行除非經過允許那麼如果非跟他們的黨政軍可以合作有行為合作只要沒有政治內涵就OK那這個合作"},{"start":3293.888,"end":3303.979,"text":"至少要雙方嘛至少要雙方請問我們露營花放是單方還是雙方"},{"start":3306.731,"end":3326.704,"text":"謝謝委員指教有關於兩條例33條之一他是講台灣地區人民法人團體及其他機構非經主管機關許可不得為剛剛委員所說的主委那你說剛剛講海基會就是我們委託我們許可的"},{"start":3327.484,"end":3353.725,"text":"那是33條之一的二項我想他一二項就是33條之一至少要雙方行為那麼這個行為限於什麼行為我們法律解釋不是一個法條裡面的概念任你主管機關去解釋一定是有體系的我們35條有技術合作"},{"start":3356.168,"end":3363.816,"text":"技術合作的合作概念是法律行為事實行為所以我們所謂的合作行為"},{"start":3365.359,"end":3385.217,"text":"是雙方以上而且是法律行為是行為請問祝福是法律行為嗎我想跟委員報告有主觀的合作意願有客觀的合作事實那跟委員報告有關於兩案條例33條之一呢我們都會去委託主管機關來我們是"},{"start":3390.442,"end":3398.205,"text":"每天跟對岸很多人民團體跟海協會的交往透過視訊透過網路的海協會是政府唯一許可我們受託很多事項都是政府許可的沒有33條之一的問題"},{"start":3409.144,"end":3428.22,"text":"你們根據33條之一的第二項非營利性質的法人就是海基會跟海協會就是33條之一的第二項每天多少跟對岸的聯絡你必不該政治機構嘛海協會嘛所以海協會你們認為海協會沒有政治性格我認為有啊"},{"start":3438.268,"end":3455.805,"text":"他設立海協會就是要對台灣進行溝通那海基會要關起來不然就是海基會天天跟您做報告你天天審核海基會的報告也是政府委託合一唯一的這個團體其實你們在意的是平台"},{"start":3457.742,"end":3483.044,"text":"各位平台海峽論壇有政治性格我們沒有否認但是我們33條之一沒有規範到平台所以你進行33條之一的合作行為如果有政治性格即使在網路論壇也不行你們在意的是海峽論壇的政治性格但是33條之一完全沒有提到平台"},{"start":3484.215,"end":3499.55,"text":"所以即使在海峽論壇你做沒有政治性的合作行為是不受規範的是合法的但是即使不在海峽論壇而在網路上的論壇講到合作行為那就不行"},{"start":3502.092,"end":3528.166,"text":"任何形式的合作行為但是他也要主管機關依照事證依照他的行政調查來做判定主委你當主委幾年不要把兩岸人民關係條例擴大解釋造成兩岸交流的阻礙這是一個法治問題我們也很嚴謹的來看待依法依程序來做行政調查"},{"start":3528.846,"end":3539.354,"text":"主委您感謝致福還有支持農民這是一個單方行為非法律也非事實行為而且它沒有政治內涵"},{"start":3540.339,"end":3564.78,"text":"如何說它是違法我們還沒有說它違法我們只是說因為有人檢舉那我們就要請主管機關像勞縣長這個案子因為有人檢舉那我們會請內政部相關的主管機關針對有沒有違反兩岸條例33條這樣的做法是恐嚇兩岸政府沒有我們是瞭解"},{"start":3566.242,"end":3591.303,"text":"那麼進行這個行政方面的查處那查處完我們才知道有沒有違法一定要說法當然這個是我們我也跟委員報告那這次的海峽論壇我們政府之所以會要求中央跟地方的公務人員都不要前往是因為中國大陸對台灣"},{"start":3594.025,"end":3600.71,"text":"這個複合性的施壓可以說極限施壓步步進逼包括軍事建造台外交打壓經濟脅迫社會滲透"},{"start":3605.011,"end":3627.902,"text":"這個我們說這個跨境鎮壓的法律戰你們官員參加以後有沒有在圍繞啊軍機有沒有在圍啊海軍艦有沒有在圍還是在圍嘛但是現在的這個對台的威脅複合性的施壓是比過去更加嚴峻我試問大家可不可以接受主委我們這次要求地方跟鎮壓都一致我們對國防部"},{"start":3632.196,"end":3650.55,"text":"絕對對岸要強硬但是陸委會必須用軟的這是我們當時成立海基會陸委會跟對岸交流就是用軟性來跟他溝通但是國防我們絕對堅強守護台灣這是我們當時李總統設計的一個非常有智慧的一個設計"},{"start":3652.012,"end":3666.947,"text":"根文報告現在中國大陸不是軟硬而已它有很多統戰滲透的作為你看我們並沒有禁止我們的縣市首長去中國大陸促銷農漁產品我們只是禁止"},{"start":3668.028,"end":3695.695,"text":"縣市首長在海峽論壇去聆聽中共領導人王滬寧、宋濤這些人的訊話這種聽訊的行為等於贊同中共對於我們文攻武嚇包括軍機艦擾台、外交打壓、經濟脅迫這些複合性的施壓我們希望各界能夠清楚這一點那另外我們很關心農民我們跟大家一樣都關懷農民想幫助農民但是從過去的歷史"},{"start":3696.375,"end":3717.778,"text":"對岸在統戰的平台裡面他不會把農漁產品當成這個簡單單純的經濟議題而是把它當成政治工具他說開放就開放說封殺就封殺你一味配合中共統戰操作只會把農民再拖回去養套殺的陷阱當中加上"},{"start":3718.839,"end":3743.351,"text":"習正會回來中共片面開放農藝產品進口也要求要有九二共識反對台獨的政治前提有政治前提就有政治風險所以這個交流是假的統戰是真的我們要強調我們要給農民一個有制度保障穩定成熟的市場像我們最近我們把芒果賣到巴黎去熱銷搶購而且賣到非常高價"},{"start":3746.172,"end":3762.096,"text":"我認為我們沒有辦法在一個統戰平台得到對農民有長期穩定的保障的幫忙而是在把農民推回去養套殺的陷阱我們不應該重蹈這樣的一個養套殺的陷阱"},{"start":3784.261,"end":3797.337,"text":"我們會請張助人委員好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早有請陸委會邱垂正主委"},{"start":3804.099,"end":3832.41,"text":"政委好好 主委好 主委賴總統上任來兩岸的關係持續緊繃將近五成的民眾擔心兩岸發生戰爭那今年是一個里程碑是海基會跟海協會中斷制度溝通跟協商機制的第十年那我們知道說陸委會你們一直在高喊要去風險化可是實質上我們看到兩岸關係越來越冰封那惡意螺旋一直上升"},{"start":3832.85,"end":3860.626,"text":"那今年1月份那個我們的海基會蘇董事長也特別去參加了活動也親口證實啊對岸現在只憑喜好選擇性去讀我們的這個讀我們的訊息啊那我想要請教一下政府現在長期啊就是讓聯盟感覺你們不是在對話是在對抗把兩岸關係降至冰點目前主委有沒有實質的破冰政策"},{"start":3861.721,"end":3888.184,"text":"各位委員報告,我想兩岸因為對岸設置了這個政治前提,設置了障礙你答應他的政治前提,就是在幫忙他消滅中華民國我們沒有辦法接受這個政治前提雖然如此,我們仍然秉持著對等尊嚴、健康有序的交流持續地推動各種的對台灣有益的交流,沒有改變"},{"start":3889.085,"end":3909.288,"text":"那我們以致力維護台海和平穩定繁榮的現狀全力以赴所以你知道說現在我請教你去年一整年我們台灣人負入觀光人數是多少人您知道嗎跟委員報告如果是我們從台灣過去的是"},{"start":3911.169,"end":3934.734,"text":"是323萬如果再從港澳過去的可能達到489萬沒錯 所以我要跟主委報告在你來講你當然是要維護台灣主權可是其實民間我們兩岸人民的交流不管是旅遊 貿易 經貿關係是非常的踴躍可是我們看到主委"},{"start":3935.814,"end":3955.442,"text":"您感覺起來就像一個很硬的石頭一直在沒有辦法突破下一步所以我們很擔心這一點那本席想要請教的是您之前在採訪中也特別表示從今年一到五月份在大陸失聯的或被盤查或被刑法限制人身自由的85個人"},{"start":3956.903,"end":3974.903,"text":"那這些這85個人其實是有比去年整體的比例來講稍微上升一點點那請問陸委會現在有辦法來去保障因為現在兩岸交流越來越頻繁保障我們台灣人在中國的人生中國大陸的人生安全跟基本的權益嗎來請回答"},{"start":3975.463,"end":4003.382,"text":"謝謝張委員我感謝委員關心這個問題就是我們現在陸委會跟海基會都受理我們民眾的報案沒有報案可能更多我們從2024年有55件去年有221件今年1到5月就高達85件總共有361件這項目就是包括刑方不明失蹤的或者是被拘留盤查還有犯了中國大陸刑法被限制人身自由"},{"start":4004.002,"end":4022.912,"text":"那我們很關切我們國人賦入的人身安全市長 你知道問題是如何保護他們我想第一個我們當然是不斷的呼籲呼籲不要要前往中國大陸做審慎的評估那不要做不必要的這些賦入"},{"start":4023.692,"end":4050.754,"text":"那第二個呢,那當然我們還在跟對岸進行有關於兩岸共同打擊犯罪與司法互助協議相關的警政交流我們希望也能夠了解我們國人剛那麼多案件我們希望能夠來維護兩岸之間有關於合作打擊犯罪打造了國人權益交流對岸有回覆嗎?"},{"start":4052.989,"end":4058.801,"text":"就警政交流的部分有不少就熱熱的交流有回覆嗎"},{"start":4060.808,"end":4085.423,"text":"您剛剛講的就陸委會的官方你們需要跟他們交流他們有回覆嗎陸委會他是沒有但是我們透過其他執法單位相關的這些互動仍然持續進行所以主委我本席在這邊要跟你拜託我也認同剛剛徐中信委員他特別的講法陸委會您剛剛的論述就是要好像要賣手牌的感覺"},{"start":4086.283,"end":4111.505,"text":"所以我的意思是說你不能左手跟人家好像講話非常的強硬右手又要跟人家叫這當然會造成問題所以我請主委其實有時候這個手腕可能要再討論看看有什麼方法可以增進交流那下一個問題也是最近的新聞這個我國的代表團帶了30億去參加我們的海洋大會OOC在肯亞舉辦"},{"start":4114.508,"end":4131.445,"text":"海洋海委會跟外交部去舉辦的一個活動結果海委會跟外交部的官員他的入境許可在核准後被無預警取消而且我們的團員也被招扣護照跟手機那一起台灣廣大的滑軟"},{"start":4132.426,"end":4146.872,"text":"那當然這個是主要是外交部主要來協助相關的問題那針對陸委會我看到陸委會也是一樣用口頭在強制譴責那請問你們有沒有什麼實際的處理危機的方案跟反制的機制"},{"start":4148.395,"end":4174.463,"text":"跟委員報告所以我們說兩岸關係這個不好當然跟它對於我們的複合性施壓有關係除了軍事建導台就是這種外交打壓而且這個外交打壓是變本加厲像這個案子我們在2015年我們參加海洋大會我們都獲得國際社會的肯定為什麼今年在肯亞辦我們的學者竟然會被"},{"start":4176.431,"end":4195.92,"text":"拘留超過20個小時這是不可思議的事情那當然我們外交部我們海委會陸委會都同聲譴責中共用粗暴的政治力量干預我們參與國際社會我想兩岸關係不好要負最大責任的是中國大陸"},{"start":4197.25,"end":4208.886,"text":"它無疑是台海緊張 區域不穩定最主要根源這是對於我們台灣這些複合性的施壓包括我已經強調 經濟監禱台 外交打壓 經濟脅迫 社會滲透"},{"start":4212.973,"end":4242.393,"text":"鋪天蓋地的這個認知作戰還有跨境鎮壓的法律戰還有灰色地帶侵擾那這些手段都是不拂緊筆而且極限施壓我想要了解兩岸關係緊張最主要還是中共他是一個麻煩製造者我們希望他能夠跟我們相向而行我們維持現狀的政策不變我們對等尊嚴推動健康有序的交流仍然不變"},{"start":4243.193,"end":4266.908,"text":"好 最後一個問題還是關於大家現在最關心的最近海峽論壇的方式的問題我們的台東縣長 勞欽林縣長針對這個台東的這個農民的生計錄製了短短幾分鐘的影片在海峽論壇來推廣釋迦那剛剛主委你有特別講不要去聽這個"},{"start":4269.59,"end":4279.589,"text":"對岸的訊話 可是我想其實勞慶林縣長他是去賣農產品不是賣台所以我希望說這個主委這個部分還是要"},{"start":4280.922,"end":4307.099,"text":"真正來去看說中央如果沒有辦法幫我們台東的農民找市場地方首長如果還要自救如果要被羅織罪名我們會感覺到其實民進黨政府是一個非常雙標的一個狀況而且把嚴肅的國安法拿來恐嚇我們地方首長跟基層農民的政策國安法就只有我們一直呼籲我們附陸參加海峽論壇要"},{"start":4309.52,"end":4334.43,"text":"要遵守我們兩岸的規範 兩岸條例的相關規範我們只有用兩岸條例相關規範那我請教一下 針對這個案子就立委會你們會怎麼樣來處理我們目前還是由主管機關進行了解跟行政方面的查處等到結果出來才能夠確定有沒有違法那你們大概會什麼時候 有一個時間點嗎"},{"start":4335.47,"end":4364.009,"text":"我們尊重我們主管機關,內政部是是好,謝謝謝謝,謝謝委員我們下一位有請張宏祿委員我請陸委會主委邱主委"},{"start":4369.259,"end":4389.379,"text":"蔣委員早主委這個中國他現在對台灣的這個宗教其實一邊希望我們台灣的宗教多跟他交流另外一方面我們有的去交流的時候又會被抓起來所以"},{"start":4391.18,"end":4407.394,"text":"這個中國到底是不是宗教自由的國家跟委員報告顯然不是他的宗教局放在統戰部他的宗教管理是為了統戰的需求跟宗教自由無關"},{"start":4408.14,"end":4424.157,"text":"那我們可不可以說,中共是不是正在利用宗教交流在企圖分化台灣的民心?我們有關注這種交流的樣態我們目前都在強化對於宗教交流的一些管理"},{"start":4425.238,"end":4448.814,"text":"那一方面呢我們對於我們的宗教團體要多做宣導特別是有些教派赴中國大陸的風險蠻高的像一貫道那截至目前為止我們已經因為宗教因素遭到中共有關部門逮捕關押了已經有20個人那其中一貫道的道卿就有17人"},{"start":4449.934,"end":4464.382,"text":"僅有三個人獲釋,所有個案我們都有掌握也透過管道來協助家屬來營救所以過去中共對法輪功的迫害"},{"start":4465.522,"end":4483.587,"text":"我們會不會擔心台灣的一貫道在中共他們跟法輪功畫上等號如果是畫上等號的話我們一貫道所有的道卿如果去到中國會不會未來像法輪功這樣受到迫害"},{"start":4484.207,"end":4502.78,"text":"我跟委員報告委員說的確實如此中共相關單位已經把一貫道跟法輪功列為邪教組織也就是將來會受到中共刑法三百條以邪教組織匯道門違反法律來判處"},{"start":4504.261,"end":4515.391,"text":"那這個如果按中共的這個刑法三百條如果成立的話至少是三年以上的徒刑算很重那基於這個風險我們最近也跟內政部"},{"start":4520.115,"end":4546.984,"text":"積極的跟我們宗教團體說明有些附路真的不要以為中國大陸有宗教自由可以任意傳教特別是一貫道的道青附路傳教一定要格外的小心那我們也不斷的去說明那這部分我們會持續加強說明我擔心的是什麼我們台灣一貫道的道青其實人數非常多現在是傳教"},{"start":4549.571,"end":4557.893,"text":"被抓起來但如果有一天如果只是道卿的這個身份過去會不會也有被抓的風險"},{"start":4560.294,"end":4579.949,"text":"我想都有可能因為它已經中共官方已經把一貫道列為邪教族的正式列為對那所以那個風險特別高對 所以所以我今天為什麼要用這個時間在這邊質詢台灣一貫道的道青非常多那我覺得這個風險啊"},{"start":4581.59,"end":4603.157,"text":"我們應該要讓台灣所有的一貫道的道青他們都知道不然呢中共呢他現在呢用其他我們道教啊或什麼的一直要交流一直要什麼的那我們的道青有的人可能也不知道啊覺得交流是好事情啊然後就過去啊甚至有可能未來去旅遊去什麼的"},{"start":4603.737,"end":4613.494,"text":"也有可能發生這個事情所以我覺得我們應該要多多的宣導至少要讓我們台灣一貫道的道青知道"},{"start":4615.014,"end":4638.082,"text":"中共把一貫道跟法輪功是畫上等號你說邪教啊什麼的其實我認為啦大家可能要邪教就邪教嘛但他對法輪功的迫害全世界都知道我覺得這一點我們有沒有必要加強啊或者是說你們現在已經有要做宣導的方法了"},{"start":4638.502,"end":4666.758,"text":"有 我們現在除了透過多元媒體做大眾的宣導我們也最小眾包括我們文教處也會跟內政部宗教師組成一個宣導小組到除了一貫道我們台灣重要的宗教 教派天主教 基督教我們都會去宣導附入這個宣教的風險而且一貫道"},{"start":4667.618,"end":4689.346,"text":"目前這幾個案例,他們在中國大陸宣導好像45金應該不會有什麼問題而且都是退休的六七十歲以上的長者我們也透過管道跟中國大陸呼籲,這些盜親你如果不喜歡他就把他驅逐出境,你不應該用刑法來判他"},{"start":4690.546,"end":4709.803,"text":"那我們會努力一方面跟對岸不斷的溝通二方面我們也會對內不斷的宣導謝謝委員提醒我覺得啦 大家我很擔心就是混淆啦因為中共一方面歡迎很多宗教團體去進鄉去交流那我在這邊"},{"start":4711.184,"end":4730.382,"text":"主委你能不能跟內政部跟什麼我們甚至海基會大家一起配合你們其實一貫道在台灣這個你要找老前人找點算式其實很容易找的啦你們是不是可以直接跟一貫道就直接溝通"},{"start":4731.543,"end":4741.156,"text":"就直接去跟他們講我覺得這個是精準啦你要先精準啦我覺得我們可不可以這樣子啊"},{"start":4744.682,"end":4771.89,"text":"我們到一貫道的總會跟李建設都有說明但是他都說目前在中國大陸被抓都不是他們總會他說他們好像很多的派別你要知道一貫道你只有去總一貫道是有很多派別我隨便唸就可以唸出很多個各自有各自的派別各自有各自的點傳我的意思是說你要全面的你只去一個總會其實沒有辦法"},{"start":4774.832,"end":4795.103,"text":"我們也在落實當中因為一貫到的派別有些是泛濫傳教的就是說越危險才要傳教這個不管我覺得我們應該要直接跟他們講我覺得這個如果真的要去做幾個禮拜之內你們都可以跟他們有接觸"},{"start":4796.024,"end":4815.339,"text":"我希望是要這樣不要讓我們台灣人因為宗教信仰然後有任何的危險我覺得這個是我們基於保護我們台灣人的一個目標啦你們可不可以這樣啊我們會全力以赴好啦齁我希望你們趕快啦好謝謝張委員謝謝好謝謝張宏祿委員下一位我們請王美惠委員"},{"start":4833.174,"end":4835.074,"text":"主席,我們現在錄的主委,先跟你談一下,我們的政府如果中國辦的海上論壇定調是統戰的平台"},{"start":4860.18,"end":4873.703,"text":"但是阿強那邊是認為是一個兩岸關係的和平所有的認定差很多,一邊是統戰,一邊是和平的想法但是另外一方面,中國的軍機跟軍艦完全沒有對中華民國的台灣"},{"start":4888.846,"end":4906.532,"text":"交料停過了,第六月十三日他們開幕那天,同樣是對中華民國的台灣,這樣會交料,這樣會亂,主委,你想想看"},{"start":4908.686,"end":4931.214,"text":"六月會的時候,中國軍機戰艦公務員一族來照料台灣,在你的日程你感覺得來,你回答一下是,剛剛金正恩議員,海峽論壇就是不折不扣的中共對台統戰的大平台"},{"start":4933.232,"end":4956.597,"text":"雖然他會包裝成善意的和平的但是另外一方面就是剛剛委員說的對台嚴重的複合性施壓包括剛剛委員說的最近6月1號到6月10號才在我們這個我們東部的海域宣稱他對於這片海域有主權有主權權利還有管轄權"},{"start":4957.757,"end":4986.102,"text":"還派出海警船跟海巡船還有公務船在進行整個我們海域的這種這些這個依法來巡航這個事情我想我們已經嚴重提出抗議也就是說海峽論壇一方面它在彰顯它在淪落它在做統戰的工作那另外一方面就是持續打壓我們所以我們"},{"start":4987.262,"end":4996.912,"text":"對於海峽論壇這個統戰平台我們在海峽論壇要正式活動之前我們都有政策立場"},{"start":4998.126,"end":5026.076,"text":"像今年的政策一樣第一個就是我們禁止中央跟地方公務人員以及所屬前往參加不得以任何形式去參加那第二個呢我們仍然是秉持著過去不能把海峽論壇的分支活動或跟隨性的活動在台灣舉辦我們也不同意地方政府跟他們一起合辦後來主委你已經說得很清楚"},{"start":5027.216,"end":5041.109,"text":"希望我們沒有去參加的,那是統戰的舞台在這個過程當中,什麼叫做參與,是什麼叫做任何的形式參加在最近也有,剛才我們董事說的"},{"start":5049.497,"end":5077.159,"text":"台東的管道,他為了他的農民,為了他要生存所以他會去做這件事嘛他想,他現在開水是因為,這間的政府沒力所以他想為了他們的管道,他才這樣做的所以在,主委你的感覺"},{"start":5078.12,"end":5085.722,"text":"現在他用錄的嘛 現在你議員的定位是什麼是參加 或是議路 或是參與這很大規模的這是人民關係法的33條在自由的第一項這是非常嚴重的所以來 主委你回答一下"},{"start":5107.487,"end":5121.733,"text":"我想姚縣長剛剛我們也提到他在之前去中國大陸他就善改行程會見宋濤沒有向移民署報備他已經有一個違規有生意進展就不要這樣了啦我們不要這樣的時候你不要只說一個"},{"start":5129.056,"end":5137.08,"text":"你這樣不行嗎?對日本這次要去也是經過我們...沒有啦,我現在要問說它已經有範圍在線的時候那邊你有人說嗎?有啦這次我們也是不同意他以任何形式參加海峽論壇他有視訊或是錄影去參與那這個也讓很多民眾認為不妥不妥"},{"start":5155.768,"end":5159.454,"text":"沒有啦 民眾不妥是 要中華民國的人會說不妥 站在我們中華民國的台灣的政府的法規裡面 你認為他是參與參加 還是合作啊"},{"start":5177.534,"end":5193.561,"text":"這個參加任何形式的合作行為我們認為都有涉嫌那我們現在已經有請內政部進行了解跟行政的查處那查處出來我們就可以判斷他有沒有違法不過要跟委員報告的話"},{"start":5195.083,"end":5221.269,"text":"我一定是強調這個海峽論壇是中共典型的統戰平台它主要是對台這個統戰宣傳滲透分化瓦解我們台灣抵抗中共併吞的意志最終它就是要消滅中華民國所以海峽論壇只是一個統戰宣傳的平台還有養大殺的陷阱所以我們政府"},{"start":5221.829,"end":5237.679,"text":"有責任把這個平台把這個統戰平台它這種政治化高風險的風險把它降低所以我們要求各級公務人員不得參加的理由在這裡那我們也會進行必要的行政查處對於勞縣長"},{"start":5239.62,"end":5253.752,"text":"他雖然要去推銷農藝產品我們其實推銷農藝產品我們都很支持我們都沒有禁止只是不要跟海峽論壇混為一談如果你把農藝產品中共把農藝產品就當成是統戰工具我們要買它 它要來買我們負責的環境"},{"start":5262.6,"end":5269.386,"text":"中華民國的臺灣的農民啊要批評說要讓我們賣到正正的量又不可以讓我們賣像鳳梨這樣正正的量要讓我們賣又要讓我們退到回來尤其鳳梨要有新鮮度的時間所以主委在這裡本身要跟你說的就是說因為越來越超過越來越多研發"},{"start":5292.504,"end":5296.446,"text":"來煽動我們台灣民國台灣人啦所以現在不是簡單把白色所想的說到現在有的媽祖先把藥車拿去,給他房子大給他房子吃"},{"start":5309.333,"end":5315.717,"text":"這有的回來了的時候,那十的人,那三個人,五個人說,這不錯喔,還不用出錢,跟後人交代,跟這就好了,主委,這就是非常嚴重的,所以未來的多元化會越來越多,不是跟拜拜,不是跟宗教而已,未來我相信,"},{"start":5336.748,"end":5341.312,"text":"有夠多的合謀會出來所以你要先去想好來請主委請這個來主席拜託花一點時間我跟我們原住民委員會主委談到這個"},{"start":5359.345,"end":5378.658,"text":"主委 不好意思 你知道我們原住民在這幾年我們的政府對原住民有非常照顧包括好利也好 包括他要找道路也好我們都盡量去協助 但是在這個過程當中有的沒錢沒錢他不知道要怎麼處理 他就去地下施政救濟"},{"start":5389.044,"end":5410.53,"text":"有的會這樣主委所以本身要告訴你們你們在我們住民的民族裡面有一個債務協助的一站到位的結尾裡面是一對一的這個一對一裡面對我們住民平時來說非常重要你能夠解說你要怎麼"},{"start":5416.431,"end":5428.279,"text":"群國的時候要怎麼去選擇,要怎麼去選擇,可以來解決他的問題要不然本身的所了解,你們在前半年在加二次中間有青人的,加二次中間有要跟七千人所以加起來要跟九千人"},{"start":5442.489,"end":5457.008,"text":"他不夠你們的說明,你們的什麼完全都沒有在自己的官司,來基本任務一場尤其最快的,你們跟公文給各官司發言"},{"start":5458.53,"end":5460.651,"text":"再問十二天,你們在花蓮開一場,未來我們四個月以後,這半天是不是可以在家裡觀賞,不用讓他開車,騎摩托車也好,"},{"start":5477.778,"end":5493.605,"text":"最快要五十分之一點錢因為你最快的一半的活動主要在台南要最快到高雄的九十所以主委 我覺得"},{"start":5494.645,"end":5514.345,"text":"這次的,可以變民,可以一對一,可以讓我們關注民因為他不知道他的財,要怎麼去處理的時候這是非常好的政策,但是我們做不到位主委你回答一下"},{"start":5515.046,"end":5522.788,"text":"這可能是因為人數的關係,所以我們沒有辦,是不是我們現在來檢討,我們會在加以來補辦,這樣好不好?因為原主委要辦啦,因為不可以讓人去聽什麼怪怪的問題,我們還有專業,要協助的時候,"},{"start":5541.158,"end":5546.168,"text":"沒有菜,在這個過程之中,我們原住民的文化園區都沒有"},{"start":5552.954,"end":5575.748,"text":"那些人的臨時去屏東參觀的大約八十四年二十四差不多二十三萬人啦因為古代也很用心地在那裡上班過啦所以有的人你可以提出你的創新你正經在那裡大"},{"start":5577.029,"end":5581.335,"text":"要怎麼讓台灣在香港住民的文化更順利?我看到你們的醫生,在東邊一千一百幾萬,在裡面也差不多啦"},{"start":5592.851,"end":5604.399,"text":"結果那些都過療癒啦主委我們要有破裂覺得原住民是在台灣非常重要的文化所以我們要加強以上謝謝"},{"start":5615.68,"end":5624.642,"text":"再補充宣告剛剛除了大陸委員會以及原住民委員會的報告之外其餘單位的報告請委員自行參閱並刊登公報我們下一位請吳七一民委員發言質詢好 下一位一位同仁請我們立委會我們的邱主委"},{"start":5646.948,"end":5668.558,"text":"今天大家都關心的我們兩岸的交流兩岸的農產品以及文化以及宗教的交流那在這邊本席這邊13號廈門舉行的海峽論壇活動中我們台灣也有很多的縣市都有參與那大家的訴求就是我們的農產品"},{"start":5670.259,"end":5697.258,"text":"消亡大陸大陸都變成非常多的變化那造成我們台灣農民也受到沒辦法去掌控這個產量所以這是我們陸委會是不是能建立一個平台來協助我們農民我們最主要是陸委會我們也要扮演到農民這個協助農民那對於政治上敏感的當然我們陸委會當然是要去喝止這個問題"},{"start":5698.58,"end":5705.497,"text":"那對於農產品的問題是不是主委這邊有沒有什麼比較好的能夠來協助我們農民"},{"start":5707.321,"end":5736.114,"text":"是 謝謝委員我們陸委會也會跟我們的農政單位一起合作讓我們的農產品有更多長期穩定的這個市場像我們最近我們許多台灣的這些水果到巴黎去展售銷售一空都賣的高價這個就是一個很好的範例那我們對於中國大陸特別是在"},{"start":5736.854,"end":5749.188,"text":"海峽論壇這個統戰平台裡面我們是有一些疑慮因為從過去歷史的經驗對岸都會把農業產品當成政治工具不是單純的經濟議題說開放就開放說封殺就封殺開開關關"},{"start":5755.177,"end":5777.423,"text":"所以一味配合中共的統戰操作只會把弱勢的農民推進養套殺的陷阱裡面特別是中共片面宣稱開放農藝產品進口他還要求必須要有九二共識反對台獨的政治前提有這個政治前提就有政治風險"},{"start":5778.763,"end":5795.504,"text":"所以沒有辦法在海峽論壇這個統戰平台得到真正對台灣農民長期有保障的幫助你反而是把台灣農民再次推入養套殺的陷阱裡面所以委員剛剛講得很對"},{"start":5798.307,"end":5810.523,"text":"應該政府各部門都會來協助農民去尋找有政府參與的有保障長期穩定的市場不要充滿不確定甚至有政治風險這個"},{"start":5813.143,"end":5833.204,"text":"讓農民承擔不管經濟風險政治風險是不應該的因為農民歸農民嘛政治歸政治嘛因為我們台灣很多養殖業養殖業像台灣雕之類的啦還有我們台東的那個石家翁來啦他們一些農民啊大家都有在交流嘛"},{"start":5834.225,"end":5862.98,"text":"說到過去他們都消亡中國大陸那現在中國大陸都停止那對他們一些農民的損失也是算蠻嚴重那我們政府的平台是怎樣來做協助能來將這個農產品還是能照往常一樣那但是我們的前提還是把關還是要把關啦還是支持我們陸委會該把關還是要把關再來就是針對兩岸兩岸的交流"},{"start":5863.74,"end":5890.308,"text":"因為我們現在都是很多宗教以及文化以及教育體育等尋求我們一些兩岸的交流那這個交流也不能斷那是不是我們陸委會這邊能來再把幅度再加大的放寬讓我們兩岸的交流尤其宗教宗教你看台灣很多宗教那早上你也提到有一貫道德問題"},{"start":5891.368,"end":5901.358,"text":"那台灣的一貫道也是發展的非常成熟啊也沒有所謂說有什麼破壞整個顛覆國家的"},{"start":5901.894,"end":5925.714,"text":"整個那個德分子應該也沒有聽說啦那是不是兩岸這一邊還是陸委會能來作為溝通的橋樑這是我本席的要求我們陸委會還是要做點成績嘛好不好跟吳委員報告有關於宗教交流的部分中國大陸的宗教團體來台灣進行專業交流"},{"start":5929.477,"end":5956.434,"text":"那我們審查的重點就是說我們不要統戰不要政治風險我們不要統戰化我們留下真正的專業化跟單純化那這個部分我們在來台灣的這些宗教團體我們就是不要有那種很多中共的黨政軍人員夾帶在整個宗教信仰團體把它扭曲了"},{"start":5957.415,"end":5981.2,"text":"那我們現在很關注的就是我們國人赴中國大陸去做宗教交流因為中國大陸是沒有宗教自由沒有信仰自由的地方那在這種情況底下我們包括剛剛委員講的一貫道他現在中國大陸當局把它列為邪教所以他赴中國大陸傳教的風險就非常的高因為他認為一貫道這種"},{"start":5984.981,"end":6012.436,"text":"秘密式的組織行為對他們政權有威脅所以他們都會用刑法三百條來判處他們可能違反他們法律所以我們對於要去中國大陸交流我們會不斷的宣導不僅是一貫道道親我們對各種道教佛教基督教天主教我們都會進行個別式的宣導讓他們知道賦入有相當的風險"},{"start":6013.376,"end":6029.957,"text":"好的 主委 針對要是宗教沒有涉及有統戰的問題還是有政治的問題我們還是要加大的腳步把它開放讓兩岸的交流這應該是現在都是比較純粹"},{"start":6030.558,"end":6051.903,"text":"跟委員報告您剛剛講可能那個交流時間長申請人長那這部分我們也在檢討當中我們也在跟各個主管機關講如果說在行政作業上可以快一點的話我想不用讓申請人等太久那這方面的相關的機制我們也在檢討當中好謝謝謝謝謝謝"},{"start":6062.162,"end":6082.387,"text":"我們下一位請李博義召委發言咨詢好謝謝,所以有請邱主委主委好主委恭喜"},{"start":6085.285,"end":6103.091,"text":"國民黨輪值的第一個預算的排審,第一個那我的輪值的預算的部會,也對你很抱歉,我負責的部會我全部都審完了那你是今天,有開始也是好的啦,廖召偉行政院第一個,我們都還沒有實質審"},{"start":6110.287,"end":6120.319,"text":"我們的我們都還沒有你的都還沒有實質審我們的都審完了但是也是有好的開始主委我想請教你一個問題"},{"start":6125.367,"end":6142.457,"text":"2024年6月有一個非常震驚台灣人的新聞就是有一個中國前海軍的艇長叫阮芳勇他駕駛一艘船直接偷渡進來,駕駛一艘快艇偷渡進來台灣"},{"start":6143.837,"end":6170.422,"text":"然後他在當然就直接抓起來了嘛2025年2月服刑8個月後服刑期滿移送移民署收容接下來是不是應該要遣返?根據委員報告就我了解他的個案仍然有一些相關的程序還要處理所以他沒有遣返的原因是因為我們的法律有問題"},{"start":6172.57,"end":6183.934,"text":"法律出現什麼問題有法律的問題這個部分這個個案我是不是私下再跟委員報告來我來說明一下我已經提出修法是那這個修法就是說"},{"start":6186.112,"end":6210.795,"text":"其實目前我們針對這些兩岸人民關係條例第18條還有香港澳門關係條例第14條之一對於這些收容的期限只有150天那移民法是怎麼規定移民法其實有下列條件可以延長收容"},{"start":6211.621,"end":6231.76,"text":"那兩岸人民關係條例卻沒有這是不是一破口 應該要把它補起來是 委員講得很適其實我們入署過移民法在修法的時候本來陸委會也要配合一起修法但是內政部說他們還有一波的修法是不是我們一起修法但是剛剛委員講得對因為我們覺得中國大陸很多脫度客"},{"start":6237.285,"end":6248.201,"text":"對 另外一個案例我現在正要講有一個陽性網紅2023年5月從廈門游泳到金門被判刑三個月收容五個月後回到中國然後"},{"start":6250.762,"end":6275.964,"text":"他在這個過程裡面他在收容期滿這個過程裡面也是在台灣趴趴照然後到處錄影片然後回到中國開始發影片我覺得這是很大的破口收容期滿沒有辦法把它延長收容讓這些偷渡的這些你說的個案讓這些偷渡人可以在台灣這樣四處趴趴照我覺得這個是很大的破口所以這是治安的隱患"},{"start":6277.144,"end":6303.089,"text":"對 所以我們要必須要提出來包含這些偷渡就是未經許可入境包含違反國安法反滲透法等等甚至這些中國軍人退役的這個海軍的廷長這個其實都不應該在台灣趴趴照他是偷渡進來的所以我們非常同意所以感謝委員的修法的這個提出那我們會提出在這個"},{"start":6305.61,"end":6316.9,"text":"經過我們的連署之後,那我們會來提出這個修法,那也希望可以獲得相關委員會的支持那另外針對剛剛很多講的,經過這個國共論壇之後"},{"start":6323.8,"end":6346.394,"text":"海峽論壇之後,那中國給予的相關的這些類似紅利的東西,聽訊完然後開了一些條件,然後把農漁產品當作政治工具那陸委會立場也很清楚啦,希望不要走回頭路,不要再落入這個中國養套殺的這一套模式裡面"},{"start":6347.755,"end":6370.173,"text":"過去也有太多的這些案例包含台灣的石斑魚、虱目魚包含台灣的這些相關的農產品會突然出現農藥檢測不合格其實是政治檢測不合格啦政治檢測的農藥含量太高那所以這個相關的這些農漁產品會突然沒有了著落確實從2021年開始中國大陸是說我們輸銷的是鳳梨說藉殼蟲"},{"start":6376.671,"end":6403.852,"text":"芒果 政治檢驗單局都是用藉殼蟲我們後來發現鳳梨到了日本就沒有藉殼蟲是到了中國就出現藉殼蟲突然我們農政單位跟我們陸委也是想說透過兩岸基友的機制就是農產品檢驗檢疫的合作平台我們對藉殼蟲的去除也用徵詢的方法"},{"start":6404.812,"end":6431.801,"text":"可以科學有效但是他說發現你有藉口從說斷就斷沒有任何諮詢諮商的可能就會因為一批貨就把你通通斷掉這個都是在政治操作那這樣突然之間說停就停說斷就斷對於我們弱勢的農民民是帶來很大的傷害就找政府哭訴啊那政府這幾年做了什麼事情"},{"start":6432.381,"end":6454.235,"text":"把這些農產品外銷嘛比如說鳳梨那日本就伸出手來那政府我們就趕快跟日本做這些外銷那你剛講的芒果那也有很好日本人也很喜歡芒果那甚至可以到歐洲我覺得這都是很好的很好的前進那不應該再走回頭路謝謝那接下來有請這個圓明慧"},{"start":6461.653,"end":6473.712,"text":"主委謝謝 只有一件事情 園民會博物館那今年的預算編列的狀況 跟去年相比編列的增加多少 那進度會有多少"},{"start":6476.311,"end":6490.444,"text":"因為我們現在目前的工作進度是這樣那個應景館也就是在竹藏館之前我們要弄就是要有一個應景館已經在三個禮拜就動工了這個進度會預計在明年就能夠就是說"},{"start":6494.983,"end":6517.503,"text":"一定要讓他試營運,在明年底就讓他試營運我跟主委提醒一下,剛剛市政府這邊在旁邊這個國嶺自然公園其實跟我們的雲林會博物館和院景館其實是連在一起的要來討論這些相關的這些旅遊的動線,讓人家可以參觀的動線那一起來融入,來加緊速度我們都會跟高雄市政府就密切的來跟他們聯絡"},{"start":6525.811,"end":6546.764,"text":"向委員會報告因為剛剛不在用李柏惟召委的時間就是本委員會有關預算的審查預算的審查分為詢答跟處理那在行政院警政署消防署以及空情總隊移民署等等單位的預算都已經在進行詢答完畢了那後續會進行審查以上跟委員會報告那我們下一位請王宏威委員發言質詢"},{"start":6556.121,"end":6560.703,"text":"好謝謝主席我請陸委會主委請問一下我們陸委會的這個預算充裕嗎跟委員報告"},{"start":6578.079,"end":6598.888,"text":"去年那審查預算到18%那我們陸委會成立三十幾年來我們大概平均大概是2.5%那去年真的是這個比較嚴重的一年就是預算比較不足夠所以預算算是很拮据算是比較緊"},{"start":6599.688,"end":6625.206,"text":"是 是 那我們希望今年的預算能夠得到合理的審查那我們也一定把持掌握這個尊潔預算的原則好 當然要尊潔預算 不管預算最後結果怎麼樣都應該尊潔預算 是其實我可以看到我們在預算審查期間每一個相關單位都喊窮都覺得預算不夠 那請問一下主委"},{"start":6626.087,"end":6631.71,"text":"今年我們有沒有在裝修新的會議室我們有一個就是一個圓桌那請這個在我們18樓不過它不大的一個在18樓對對會議室好花多少錢"},{"start":6653.819,"end":6670.246,"text":"98萬因為超過100萬就必須有三家來所以現在各政府單位都非常巧妙的把這些預算都拆到100萬以下然後廠商也都非常巧妙的幾乎都不超過100萬這個是對18樓這18樓18樓什麼地方"},{"start":6682.276,"end":6695.368,"text":"我們跟測競會共用的地方共用的 是在18樓因為我們是測競會台港測競會董事長辦公室請問台港測競會董事長是誰我們賴董事長賴董事長那董事長只有當台港測競會董事長嗎他有沒有其他職務他也是央廣的董事長"},{"start":6708.82,"end":6715.182,"text":"所以他到底在我們台港策進會的時間比較久呢還是會在央廣董事長因為可能業務比較繁多跟委員報告我們策進會這個大概一季開一次會那相關的議題會在陸委會時間應該是很少很少嘛很少但是放在他的這個辦公室"},{"start":6734.446,"end":6743.195,"text":"台港策進會的辦公室我想這個我們的董事長他應該如果是一個台港策進會現在我們跟港澳之間有什麼業務嗎也非常少了吧跟委員然後你如果跟央廣比較起來然後在這邊在我們"},{"start":6752.964,"end":6771.096,"text":"若會財政這麼拮据預算的需求這麼迫切之下花了將近百萬元放在台港策進會去做一個裝修一個新的所謂而且你們用所謂的多功能的會議室請問這個會議室要做什麼台港業務我們現在有什麼港澳業務即將推進嗎"},{"start":6777.917,"end":6806.6,"text":"跟委員報告我們港澳交流蠻平凡的那如果 什麼叫平凡法是 跟委員報告我們 帶了什麼活動是 我們除了我們港澳處還有我們撤進會在全國各地辦這個港人在台灣的居留定居的說明會港人居留定居不是很少嗎 從當時挺香港"},{"start":6807.401,"end":6832.299,"text":"不就開始了嗎 如果要做的話應該是那個時候做啊我們一直延續的做 我們持續的做也跟各個地方政府在合作包括跟這個台中市政府 高雄市政府最近我們也新北市政府 還有台北市政府我們都 還有桃園市政府都有在合作所以在這麼多跟地方政府合作之下要多一個多功能的會議室"},{"start":6833.681,"end":6853.663,"text":"那個會議室是一個多功能的會議室其實我們陸委會因為會議室不多了所以我們爭取到這個會議室也讓我們全會的同仁都可以來使用主委第一個你們都是預算很窮就像台電也是預算很窮"},{"start":6854.984,"end":6868.183,"text":"最近今天的新聞還要花那個還要貸款三千億在很窮很虧損的狀況之下還可以擠出一個將近百萬的換logo的一個標案給綠油油 聶友貞"},{"start":6869.89,"end":6880.261,"text":"然後你們也在喊窮然後台港業務幾乎都在停頓狀況之下然後也要花大錢 食品我覺得對一般的民眾來說食品 然後要將近百萬我們去年對香港"},{"start":6886.843,"end":6898.345,"text":"有718億美金的貿易額我們對他就是704億就是百分之九十八是臺灣貿易額最高那你還要促進這個貿易 剛剛不是有養套殺嗎香港人來臺灣 香港沒有養套殺港澳人養套殺所以我們應該促進對港澳的經貿的交流 是嗎"},{"start":6914.068,"end":6930.804,"text":"我想各方面的交流再進行,包括教育交流那奇怪了,那饒慶林要促進他的農產品交流,就是會被養套殺啊你陸委會要促進對港澳的經貿交流,就沒有人好搭我們沒有去普查到中國大陸,去做這個農業交流不要在海峽論壇,這個是一個統戰平台,大家公認的"},{"start":6939.071,"end":6942.358,"text":"如果他要行銷一下台東境內優良的農產品他一定要選平台是不是"},{"start":6950.469,"end":6954.352,"text":"他一定要選平台在你們設定的平台所以我就講你的標準到底是什麼嗎我當然不懂了因為你前面講的義憤填膺說這個跟中國大陸的經貿交流如果你要賣東西去就是會被養套殺然後你現在又說黨奧交流"},{"start":6969.162,"end":6996.528,"text":"海峽論壇的這個統戰平台嘛你在其他的對等尊嚴的這個什麼產品的貿易我們都對象看待也會提供必要的協助啊來請問一下指導一下如果他要行銷他的水果因為事實上這個其實行銷水果裡面也包含像你在香港你知道在香港的超市裡面他最貴的水果都是來自台灣的水果因為台灣的水果非常好"},{"start":6997.468,"end":7003.89,"text":"我知道很多香港的民眾是喜歡台灣的水果我們私下也有透過黃建斌委員跟饒縣長說明我們也願意看看香港的市場可能比較沒有統戰的問題"},{"start":7023.675,"end":7042.045,"text":"所以饒慶林只能說農產品只能賣到香港港澳然後不能賣到中國大陸你們又講港澳又是中國大陸對不對又是中國中央可以去指導的那我請問一下因為現在傳出說要對饒慶林來做調查"},{"start":7045.527,"end":7068.816,"text":"甚至做處分請問一下陸委會會調查饒慶齡嗎會處分饒慶齡嗎各位委員報告我們政府已經定調我們禁止中央與地方公務人員以任何形式參加海峽論壇所以無論是親自出席或是錄影當然都是參加因為政府也都是說明所以你要怎麼處分饒慶齡來 怎麼處分饒慶齡"},{"start":7071.277,"end":7092.526,"text":"我跟委員報告這個因為勞縣長之前赴陸的時候他已經違規善改行程會見送到又沒有向移民署報備那這次又發生了在這次的爭議性的行為我們依照兩案條例33條之一我們有請主管機關內政部了解整個"},{"start":7093.726,"end":7110.978,"text":"整個行政查處那等到行政查處出來我們才能夠根據哪一個法律來兩岸條例三審討之一就是未經政府許可不得與中共黨政軍從事任何形式的合作行為"},{"start":7111.954,"end":7126.783,"text":"好 那所以你認為他錄一個影片就是違反兩岸人民關係條例囉我們沒有說違反我們還會做行政的查處不是 你是主管機關嗎對 但是還是要尊重主管機關他了解跟行政查處的結果才能判斷是不是有違法所以你不排除去懲處 懲處饒慶林那請問一下根據你兩岸人民關係條例最終饒慶林要怎麼被處分呢"},{"start":7142.746,"end":7158.139,"text":"我們兩岸條例339之一的罰則是十萬元以上五十萬元以下所以不排除對饒清明罰款的意思當然他有違法的事實你剛才說要查處"},{"start":7161.261,"end":7187.107,"text":"主委啊 我剛剛看到你們精神錯亂你剛剛說要交給內政部調查你沒有說有違反的事實你沒有經過內政部的查處你現在就說他有違反的事實我們沒有說違反的事實沒有說違法要經過行政調查用看證據大主委說了算是吧沒有 我們尊重主管機關所以像這樣的事情你們確實要調查"},{"start":7189.638,"end":7195.84,"text":"會去了解跟行政調查行政查處行政程序法對於當事人有利不利的應該都一併反映所以這件事情你們就拿著雞毛當令箭過去賴清德總統也當過台南市長他有沒有去做交流呢 有啊我想他不會到廠商平台去做交流"},{"start":7214.386,"end":7218.668,"text":"也去做交流啊那你們這到底是什麼標準呢所以還要選擇選擇他是在哪一個平台這個平台都是你們說了算包含陳菊過去也有也有跟羅太太的主任一起握手一起"},{"start":7233.175,"end":7245.261,"text":"他這個平台是為了統戰宣傳 滲透分化瓦解我們抵抗中共併吞的意志最終是要消滅中華民國為什麼要在這個平台交流呢所以怎麼樣 饒清林用一個錄影然後中華民國就會被消滅了嗎這個錄影好偉大"},{"start":7252.705,"end":7275.34,"text":"他做一個錄影然後選擇一下他的農產品然後這話民國就會被消滅了主委啊他申請賦入我們給他房子而且不得從事任何形式的財政財政財產單我要講的是請不要用行政的干預來干預我們現在的縣市長照顧他的農民第二你們不能用你們不能夠用兩套標準"},{"start":7280.103,"end":7288.129,"text":"不要民進黨的政治人物做了,就是促進兩岸交流不要把農民拿出來吧如果今天他作為父母幹,對農民不好的事情他也不敢做啊你選的首長請問一下,他不照顧他的選民嗎?"},{"start":7305.021,"end":7317.106,"text":"他不照顧他的選民嗎所以你在這邊講就是說你今天作為一個行政首長你收到上級的指示然後你就認定說這個首長他讓他讓這個選民然後被養套殺我剛才也講了你有兩套標準嗎怎麼會說到中國賣到中國大陸就是養套殺賣到港站平台去"},{"start":7330.911,"end":7358.704,"text":"他賣到這個論壇嗎然後也不會因為一個地方首長錄了一個影片推銷他自己的農產品然後中華民國就消滅了不要用這麼大的帽子而且你們所謂做的懲處果然嘛就是你們這個民進黨裡面的人去放話對於這些民選的縣市首長是極為不公平的事情我必須要提醒諸位好不好"},{"start":7367.622,"end":7374.968,"text":"我們下一位請高進素美委員發言質詢那待林倩琦委員發言之後休息謝謝專委"},{"start":7384.433,"end":7400.55,"text":"不需要請這個大陸委員會邱主任委員上台了我只是覺得身為一個中華民國的官員可以毫無自信到這種程度而且呢你們每一次在這邊的發言你們傷害的其實呢是台灣人民的老百姓"},{"start":7401.471,"end":7415.367,"text":"不管是農產品的問題不管是兩岸交流的問題不管是直航的問題不管是觀光客的問題其實你們實質上是在傷害台灣的老百姓"},{"start":7416.468,"end":7439.228,"text":"他不會回答了 因為他的回答呢我覺得實在是在這邊有失一個正無關的一個風範我們看到的是他吵架在賣在那個菜市場賣菜的這種等級我覺得一點都不尊敬他我倒是很想詢問一下財團法院海峽教育基金會的蘇嘉全蘇嘉全董事長"},{"start":7441.687,"end":7466.783,"text":"董事長你曾經做過我們內政部的部長也做過行政院的院長您的高度肯定會比邱主任委員還高剛剛您看到這樣子邱主任委員在這邊一番好像菜市場賣菜的這樣子的答詢我相信你一定也會心裡面難難過的因為你現在的這個職責你是在為台灣的人民謀福利對吧應該沒有錯吧好"},{"start":7468.837,"end":7486.173,"text":"那這樣是這樣的話應該要想盡方法全世界都對中國大陸這個市場大家都至於給予高度的肯定甚至於都不斷的領導人都去拜訪都希望這個大陸的領導人能夠給"},{"start":7489.116,"end":7517.199,"text":"這個不管世界各國不管是經貿也好不管是農產品也好不管是科技也好都能夠合作可是反觀我們中華民國我們常常在講兩岸同屬一家人一家親甚至於賴總統也好您也好您的講的話講的閩南語都是那裡的所以其實我們的講話是最溝通最能夠彼此有感受的"},{"start":7518.696,"end":7533.961,"text":"為什麼要兩岸搞成這個樣子呢我相信蘇嘉瓊董事長你應該會跟邱主委不一樣的思考邏輯吧在您的任內 簡短的說你希望給台灣人民帶來什麼樣的未來的希望在中國大陸這個市場我覺得"},{"start":7538.413,"end":7564.079,"text":"全世界其他國家中國並沒有要併吞他們但是台灣中國是想併吞台灣的所以作為台灣人民還是邱主委難免在被併吞被恐嚇的過程站在保衛台灣人民的立場是要有一些態度"},{"start":7564.827,"end":7577.276,"text":"那麼海基會當然我們比較屬於陸委會委託跟大陸互相你不覺得你們兩個這樣的機構是在打架的嗎"},{"start":7579.645,"end":7596.232,"text":"所以你認為這樣子的論述你也接受你也同意就是說因為大陸他想要併吞台灣但是事實上您看到習近平領導人他在那邊的一番說話其實現在是在軟化的"},{"start":7599.975,"end":7612.767,"text":"希望兩邊的領導人能夠有智慧坐下來好好的談不是這樣子的嗎其實我們看到的是強硬的並不是中國大陸啊強硬的是我們的台灣啊而且講對了"},{"start":7615.939,"end":7642.977,"text":"只是不要獨立是可以談的曾經在馬英九時代兩岸的經貿是非常的好的兩岸的人民是非常的和平的從來沒有一個人民因為這樣子而要被浪蕩入獄然後也從來沒有一個這樣的首長就去參加一個所謂的海峽論壇會之後呢就會用來懲處然後把這件事情把它放大擴大到每一個人都很害怕很擔心啊"},{"start":7643.777,"end":7669.194,"text":"不過委員 蠻久總統的時代 中國還是在全世界打壓台灣喔蠻久總統他就有這個聚會 他們兩個人曾經見面討論過不是嗎那氣氛不是很好嗎 為什麼要這樣 二一螺旋一直不斷的上漲然後二一螺旋不斷的岸上 可憐的 受害的是台灣的民眾啊"},{"start":7669.554,"end":7675.733,"text":"你去看看夜市 你去看看我們倒了多少的旅行色你去看看我們多少的旅店"},{"start":7677.243,"end":7697.062,"text":"這些難道是我們身為臺灣領導人你們所想要看到的嗎但是委員別忘了謝謝董事長蘇嘉天我今天其實呢沒有想要針對這個議題只是我剛剛坐在台下的時候我給您高度的期待希望您在您的任內能夠改善這種惡意螺旋的升高好嗎謝謝繼續邀請園民會園民會的主委謝謝您"},{"start":7703.789,"end":7721.918,"text":"主委我依然回到今天審預算有幾件很重要的事情要就教你基本收視維持費基本收視維持費在114審查預算的時候我講得很清楚了這筆預算是我跟蘇前院長爭取的總共有6.4億而這些呢是原鄉的救命錢"},{"start":7723.078,"end":7747.692,"text":"不是你園民會要動你就可以動想扣你就可以扣我曾經也做過提案的要求希望你們園民會不要擅自扣住超過五千萬元的額度請問目前你們的進度在哪裡了我跟委員報告這個基本設施維持會從以前到現在他也不是說現在來才變成這樣他本來就有"},{"start":7748.712,"end":7770.614,"text":"大概有8%左右的一個經費是作為來統籌應用的主要是在應付突然有一些天然災害或者是有一些緊急避難或者是要我了解可是你們我不要忘記114年我就有曾經提案你答應過我不會再這樣子做所以我才撤案的可是我們看"},{"start":7771.375,"end":7797.649,"text":"我們看115年分配金額你們少了114年有11個原鄉他們公所的執行率是超過九成的現在的原鄉鄉公所其實他們的執行率是蠻高的那照理說你應該因為他的執行率高然後來繼續他就是需要這筆錢你們現在不是你們現在是減少的我們來看一下這個"},{"start":7798.749,"end":7819.815,"text":"花蓮的萬榮鄉、花蓮的頌風鄉、屏東的春日鄉113年、114年它的執行率都是百分之百可是你隔年你的分配數是下降的然後你反而讓那個執行率偏低的公所隔年的分配不減反增你這樣子是在變相的欺負"},{"start":7821.004,"end":7836.612,"text":"而且不肯定這些相公所啊你可不可以告訴我到底怎麼回事是你比較喜歡的相公所你就給多一點然後呢 質詢量很高的相公所你反而不給他嗎各位人員是這樣子這樣子會被考慮的嗎我跟委員報告這個有關這去年那樣的一個決定但是我們在去年的年底的時候大概11月6號我們有請"},{"start":7845.689,"end":7862.592,"text":"所有的55個鄉鎮來我們來做一個研商的會議這幾個鄉鎮長他們超過80%也是支持要有一定的額度類似這個額度8%放在研民會這個也不是研民會要用一樣是要給公所"},{"start":7862.972,"end":7887.088,"text":"我覺得到11月份的時候你知道那個質詢率的時間已經是接近尾聲了而且我還有另外一個問題就跟你說人家100%質詢率的你反而不給他然後你給了質詢率很低的人到底是怎麼回事今天沒有很多的時間我在這邊要要求你如果這件事情你們沒有辦法解決的話如果以後還是這樣的話該刪該凍的我還是會凍結好不好第二個我要請教的問題是教育的問題我們請一下處長"},{"start":7893.714,"end":7902.53,"text":"教育處處長 請問一下 人民會主委你可以花一點這個時間因為你有幾位新的副主委他們的分工可以讓我們知道一下好嗎"},{"start":7903.775,"end":7924.622,"text":"主委主要是我們的事務副主委梅莊杜章梅莊事務副主委是他他是事務副主委再來呢那麼兩位政務的副主委一個是古仲武一個是陳奕迅我知道他們負責的分工是怎麼負責還是所有的業務都一起"},{"start":7925.322,"end":7948.807,"text":"沒有 還是有分像譬如說陳奕信副主委我們知道他對這個運動方面這個會比較有會比較有他的一個這個專長那他就是負責教文處跟經發處的教文跟經發對 教文跟經發那國仲呢他就是工程方面他比較他比較內行工程跟這個社福還有這個這個"},{"start":7951.987,"end":7978.179,"text":"人事啦 像秘書是這樣其他的就通通就是美妝來做一個協調好 那我現在問的是教文的部分照理說應該是要讓副主委來回答啦是吧教文處處長在這裡 當然那個好 因為我們曾經我還沒有在這裡質詢他我來質詢他一下好了不知道他對他的業務熟悉不熟悉我們請陳副主委"},{"start":7980.908,"end":8004.178,"text":"陳副主任我要請問你在3月底的時候我的辦公室我曾經討論過民主學校課程和師資規劃還有泰雅課綱發展跟實踐等等的教育議題當時是處長來到我的辦公室但是因為你分管這個業務我除了希望處長熟悉了解你應該也要了解請問一下這件事情你知道嗎"},{"start":8005.287,"end":8027.144,"text":"我去年九一日開始進來當然我是focus在運動教育在進來的時候我前前就是在這個運動教育至於你剛剛說的我列資但是我還是要請示一下所以您的意思就是說您只在教育上面那個運動方面所以運動方面的話您覺得要跟我們的運動部跟教育部怎麼樣橫向聯繫"},{"start":8029.606,"end":8036.743,"text":"對 我在這方面我都有保持在跟運動部跟教育部這樣橫向做你覺得你來了之後會有什麼樣新的希望"},{"start":8037.509,"end":8065.383,"text":"有 我這也對自己很有信心就簡單的說一下嘛好 就算說這一次的我們那個在跟運動部相關連的就是在拔尖計畫以及GU都互相在做溝通那尤其是這一次國內的2026年就是張伯也這方面以及我們總共得了123面的金牌這個是事實的可見可是我們還要繼續發展在底下尤其是比較"},{"start":8066.656,"end":8088.427,"text":"在體育班這個方面我可能是比較你知道教育部有一個體育班要裁撤了只有要留下原住民的體育班您知道嗎我是知道那你覺得這有沒有歧視的一些意味好像原住民只有教育班還是體育班還是你覺得我們可以因為這個體育班而在教育部裡面多增加經費"},{"start":8091.803,"end":8119.094,"text":"委員 如果時間夠我可以到你辦公室來想我本身誠意性就是從小時候就是體育班 我覺得但你知道教育部他要撤掉教育班這個同學體育班的行進計畫我知道 可是我呢所以希望您不要讓社會大眾認為教育班是歧視好像就是原住民不會念書所以在體育班"},{"start":8120.094,"end":8136.173,"text":"希望你能夠做這樣的說明好不好我還是覺得我們的DNA雖然很好但是每一個人念書也念得很好我們現在的體育選手英文念得也非常的好我們的課程也並沒有被拉掉對吧你同意這一點嗎我當然在我的你同意這一點吧對"},{"start":8137.415,"end":8154.209,"text":"開見有意 書中自有 言如意即還經無所以我一定是希望每一個運動員因為我們運動員的生命就這麼短好 既然如此我再請問您因為您在負責教育的部分你知道原住民專班現在教育部已經把這個錢給停掉了你要不要爭取回來"},{"start":8159.683,"end":8177.499,"text":"原住民專班是非常重要的原住民專班裡面其實有很多的費用是教育部跟園民會分工的是我在教文的時候當教委我建立了這個平台可是前一段時間我卻聽到要把原住民專班這個預算給砍了"},{"start":8179.361,"end":8202.327,"text":"我要給你這個任務我先報告一下今天沒有那麼多的時間到我辦公室我們來一起談這個我要今天給你這個任務也要你在主委的面前來答應要把這個錢給要回來可以嗎好我請你畢竟我是副主委我副主委的工作兩點一個是輔佐一個是執行主委的這個好請問主委這個錢要不要要回來"},{"start":8203.339,"end":8231.912,"text":"要不要請你的副主委會包括我也會跟教育部來好謝謝那比較專業的問題我問一下處長給我一點時間處長你到我辦公室的時候我們曾經一起發展過泰雅課高發展計畫您說過是團結的因為有一群非才熱愛重視民族教育的泰雅族的校長他們集結在一起由下而上的一起來研究來發展"},{"start":8233.052,"end":8248.251,"text":"你也說我們泰雅族的課綱發展計畫是專業的然後也在國家教育研究院的帶領的合作之下是可以完成專業且細膩的工作來奠定民族學校的課綱基礎"},{"start":8249.993,"end":8269.725,"text":"進而落實賴總統的政見這是什麼政見呢就是希望在原住民地區建立雙軌制的原住民族的教育體系處長你也更講你希望未來太陽課綱發展計畫它是領頭羊未來希望延續鄒族布農族悲難的課綱發展請問這些什麼時候要做"},{"start":8274.981,"end":8298.593,"text":"我們今年都已經開始在規劃了好 它的期程是什麼我們希望今年我們會推動那個布農族跟那個今年都會推動布農族跟那個喇臘族的課綱的發展那就是說校長 曾經有過經驗的校長他們就退場了嗎當然不會 當然我們就藉著他們過去發展太好跟他們建立 未來這整個的土地要推動開始之後會請他們來做我們的諮詢的"},{"start":8300.114,"end":8325.529,"text":"好 那泰雅課綱有沒有可能變成我們的雙軌的變成泰雅族的課綱泰雅族課綱已經完成了現在是我們要鼓勵他們往教材來發展我們希望他往教材來做發展因為做課綱的目的就是要發展教材教材要怎麼做對 我們現在跟泰雅族在積極在協議就是說怎麼讓讓他在寄養基礎上去往教材來發展所以這個我們也同步在進行"},{"start":8326.389,"end":8339.328,"text":"那什麼時候可以進行?也就是說他們的專業他們的經驗可以被保留下來,對不對?當然,當然好,謝謝我希望這些事情能夠繼續的加油謝謝委員,我們會努力的最後我要問的是,沒宣揮"},{"start":8341.811,"end":8362.408,"text":"主委你的沒宣費其實用的很糟糕你們的沒宣費不是在做一些原住民的宣傳 政治的宣傳而是在配合我們的執政黨的鎮定宣傳我覺得這有違我們沒宣費所以我就不讓你回答了因為沒宣費在去年省預算的時候我也有"},{"start":8363.089,"end":8377.717,"text":"也有討論過所以這次我認為你們並沒有真正的來來解決我們上次擔心園民會在用的沒宣費上面所以這次省預算部分我沒宣費我還是會全刪謝謝我們下一位請黃婕維委員發言質詢"},{"start":8395.034,"end":8399.124,"text":"謝謝主席請求主委也拜託主席拜託幫忙控制時間好不好大家的時間都很寶貴"},{"start":8403.88,"end":8432.262,"text":"黃雲傑好好請邱主委早上其實大家都談到這個海峽論壇的事情那我是不是請主委在這邊再一次的跟大家說明海峽論壇是什麼樣的一個平台這個其實每年都問已經問了很多次了請你再一次嚴正的告訴大家海峽論壇是什麼樣的平台跟委員報告海峽論壇的本質就是中共對台統戰的平台"},{"start":8433.548,"end":8455.736,"text":"是中共對台灣展現他大交流大合作的成果的平台那在這個平台裡面他最主要有很多的統戰宣傳還有對台的滲透分化那他企圖瓦解我們抵抗中共併吞的意志他最終的目的就是要消滅中華民國"},{"start":8456.616,"end":8468.302,"text":"所以已經講得很清楚了嘛 主委每一次都這樣講那也都希望全台灣的人民知道說這個平台就是這樣子的目的那都已經告訴大家了 但是偏偏還要去"},{"start":8469.793,"end":8497.953,"text":"那包括我們坐在台上的召委也都去了嘛上禮拜在這個我們委員會在開會的時間那都去了這樣子的平台所以我今天在這邊要講的是雖然這個台東縣長他是用影片的方式擦邊的方式來露出在這個統戰平台那你們也會依法來進行調查跟懲處那這個就是尊重你們接下來的程序但是我必須要說在立法院最重要的還是現在所有的公務員"},{"start":8498.914,"end":8522.35,"text":"如果要照這個方式去到中國參加海峽論壇都是有相關的法規依據的但是立法院卻沒有所以其實這兩年我們在做的是每一次都在禮拜五的院會的這個議程裡面提到說立法院立法委員應該要盡到這樣子的民主的課則應該要把立法委員納入這個"},{"start":8523.411,"end":8543.533,"text":"管制的範圍應該要依法的申報但是到現在這樣的法案已經被擋了800多次還是沒有辦法通過所以我是希望說我們陸委會接下來還是要有一些更強制的作為立法院說法沒辦法過因為立委自己想去因為藍白的立委他們就是想要去被統戰就是這樣"},{"start":8545.635,"end":8572.84,"text":"那所以呢我是希望陸委會要有更多強制的作為像這種統戰的大敗敗你們到底還能做什麼各位報告確實我們也是認為立法院立法委員行使職權如果有碰觸到機敏的這些業務那去這個統戰平台當然是自為不妥所以我們一方面也想告知他賦入的風險"},{"start":8573.84,"end":8587.614,"text":"所以我們目前已經把兩條例有行政院版已經送到大院來但是還沒有在審議我們就希望我們的聯審會將來其中一項就是把立法委員納入來做聯審"},{"start":8590.797,"end":8614.032,"text":"那我們現在對於海峽論壇我們今年跟往年最大的不同就是包括中央政府公務人員、地方政府公務人員都禁止前往那理由是因為我們這幾年中國大陸對於我們這個包括軍機間擾台、外交打壓、經濟脅迫、社會滲透"},{"start":8616.514,"end":8633.662,"text":"跨境鎮壓的法律戰鋪天蓋地的認知作戰還有灰色地帶侵擾這些複合性的施壓可以說不會禁閉極限施壓試想我們如果我們讓地方的縣市首長去坐在海峽論壇去聽王滬寧宋濤訓話這些"},{"start":8640.201,"end":8654.253,"text":"聽這些聆聽他們訓話你好像在贊同他對台灣複合性施壓對台灣的文攻武嚇這樣適合嗎所以這部分我是希望我們陸委會有行政手段的就用行政手段是"},{"start":8655.093,"end":8671.776,"text":"該要求所有的這一些公職應該要自行揭露行程自行揭露情資的就應該要強力要求這個要拜託所以剛剛其實主委也有提到跨境政要我在這邊想要提兩個案子一個是這個赴湯他兩度被波期"},{"start":8672.617,"end":8688.97,"text":"那還有另外一個連這個講喜劇的都因為涉嫌他只是在喜劇的場合在卡米地講到說他嘲諷了習近平結果也是被遭到威脅那在立委會的眼中這兩個案子是不是跨境鎮壓呢"},{"start":8690.7,"end":8706.435,"text":"這是一個跨境鎮壓典型的案例也謝謝委員對於赴湯我們陸委會跟他是非常熟識的人是的那我必須要講這兩個案子既然都是典型的跨境鎮壓的手法"},{"start":8706.815,"end":8723.8,"text":"我在這邊要要求的是你們要有更多的跨部會合作不能只是把它當成一般的治安事件這個我也要求過了就是包括跟其他的警政單位海關等等的都要把它上升到反滲透法甚至是國安法的層級來辦"},{"start":8725.18,"end":8745.353,"text":"跟委員報告您講的跨境鎮壓我們在行政院有跨部會的一個小組來專責處理這個跨境鎮壓的案例他主要是說我們對於這個在地協力者像是赴湯跟他婆妻的這些人我們一定要嚴懲這些"},{"start":8747.634,"end":8765.769,"text":"具有香港籍有台灣籍這三個嫌疑犯他應該是違反了我國國家安全法反送中法刑法這些罪嫌我們會依法來嚴懲那另外我們也對當事人要提出關懷跟保障包括他的那個拳擊管"},{"start":8766.689,"end":8786.403,"text":"被剖欺他就無以為繼那我們也協助他而且我們警政單位也請他做全級教練讓他趕快恢復正常的生活這種犯案手法他們都是算計好的包括說入境之後犯案完清空所有通聯紀錄就出境了是"},{"start":8787.416,"end":8812.582,"text":"所以這個層級應該我要講的就是你們這個跨部會相關的單位的聯繫非常非常重要那他們絕對他們看起來就好像是以為說大家覺得說他們的理由都很簡單就是說什麼只是對人家心生不滿所以就是用這種方式去威脅人家但並不是嘛他是一個跨境鎮壓的例子嘛所以我是希望說陸委會能做的事情應該要更多"},{"start":8813.622,"end":8830.615,"text":"包括說甚至考慮加重期刑等等的把它用更高層級的方式來辦反滲透法的意涵就是在加重期刑另外除了跨部會通力合作來處理跨境鎮壓我們也要透過跨國的合作"},{"start":8831.155,"end":8853.182,"text":"因為國際間對這種跨境鎮壓十分重視那我們透過國際間一起來通力合作對於這個對台灣跨境 像中國大陸這個對台灣施展這種成獨二十五條跨境鎮壓的事件我們透過國際社會一起來反制好 這個要拜託陸委會我們我國應該是最應該重視跨境鎮壓的一個國家才對是"},{"start":8855.103,"end":8866.531,"text":"因為我國遭受到的威脅以及他們在測試台灣的底線都是不斷拿台灣當成一個測試的場域不是嗎是所以這個真的要拜託主委是好謝謝好謝謝黃委員好因為剛剛質詢順序有調換喔那我們就請謝榮介委員發言質詢那這個結束後就休息"},{"start":8892.443,"end":8920.143,"text":"主席我請柳議會主席啊 董事長市長你好老闆齁 來那個 抱歉 董事長我先請教你那個 董事長我請教你齁你 有去台六過嗎"},{"start":8921.431,"end":8949.777,"text":"我在民國差不多七十八年去一遍,過去就不是了我看我一九八九年,那時候去大陸很榮耀阿伯你沒有再去過,找一個機會去看看我差不多一九八九年、九九年去了兩千年"},{"start":8950.905,"end":8972.9,"text":"到控兩年一二年就這樣三五年去一遍對方都不一樣你這麼久沒去你來久一久後你有跟海峽會這邊有溝通連繫嗎我們來不差不多每一天都會跟海峽會連繫溝通你覺得最近氣氛在這裡不好的過程中"},{"start":8981.55,"end":8990.768,"text":"伊利汗珠是這部的角色 必要去擔任一些化學者 讓溶化比較好"},{"start":8992.864,"end":9005.873,"text":"你有必要這樣做嗎?如果大家不要有什麼政治立場,可以變一種尊嚴所以政治立場就是說,他們堅持久離共生嘛,對不對?對,對,對,這個重點在這次的民主社會跟習近平會面後"},{"start":9017.501,"end":9029.531,"text":"我很簡單的明確聽到就是說 中華制度不公 要保障尊重 這他說的齁那麼羅總統起來的時候就是說 我不想人家叫你共識我現在的政府就是民進黨執政所以如果要交流 要說你要來看我的政府說這是羅總統就職的時候表達"},{"start":9039.431,"end":9056.342,"text":"也跟兩黨來對方一直說要有紀律共識如果沒有紀律共識都不用說那麼這次都沒有說到紀律共識他也沒有堅持要紀律共識而且施兩非 針對兩法觀說的事情是不是已經有正式來函了我想這個是不是主委來跟委員好你先說給委員報告"},{"start":9068.174,"end":9085.971,"text":"目前我們在2015年2月3號給沒有啦,是不是有內涵啦沒有,觀光客還沒有反應小養會小養會可能是直航的部分對,來直航的部分所以你藏這個球就不敢吃你藏一點點煮食就沒有"},{"start":9088.295,"end":9110.281,"text":"這就已經符合到老總統說我沒有性侵害你共識但是你還來跟我講 啊現在他沒有性侵害你共識沒有叫你性侵害你共識 他也來跟你講啊為什麼你不給我接救 好啦我在這裡跟你講啊 我從以前聽你聽到現在你整天跟我說你的立場就是老總統的立場嘛 總統交代你這樣講就好了嘛"},{"start":9113.902,"end":9126.134,"text":"到底是不是嘛什麼三農三品啊 講到出格轉波什麼在養兔殺你不能再看我回答問題啦你說誰不去發掘 做了多少來 一公斤多少一公斤沒多少啦"},{"start":9132.523,"end":9145.834,"text":"你是說發財啦?你說算了啦,回去我國很好家啦,一公斤不多少啦我了解真的是一粒齁,這個愛文盲嘴,一百塊錢一公斤不多少啦"},{"start":9155.427,"end":9167.796,"text":"我們了解後 政黨委員 你看那樣子不然當時你會說 說到你委員不知道 通通被你欺負你知不知道賣去法國的選項一公斤補貼多少如果賣去法國後 對農民的手賣的選項一公斤多少"},{"start":9177.921,"end":9189.104,"text":"不要這樣說 農民沒有錢加收 農民是基台有市場市場可以讓我放修的時候 我的水 油 我的鳳梨不會崩潰這樣我就賺錢了 沒人做一個市場你知道我們的鳳梨為什麼不能進去你說有工薪 為什麼有工薪 以前有工薪沒有 現在有工薪 我們停這樣就是養頭殺"},{"start":9206.172,"end":9208.173,"text":"去日本也是有勾芯的給你動起來你不需要用這個做競敵意線嘛去到日本他分這個合同他就是一樣的新增因為有繡花甲丸"},{"start":9223.786,"end":9250.984,"text":"大陸很早就跟我們說了因為我們也有做啊我們農委會也有跟科學的徵詢因為受我吃完的責任空氣的汙染所以我現在大陸沒有輪到一國來的如果有分解可以說我在海關不再做薰針了這事實上跟我們說了後來照理說政府是說既然你不再做薰針那我要幫助我的農民那我就在台灣薰針"},{"start":9252.571,"end":9266.004,"text":"我們也不需要,我們海關也不需要新增啊所以變成粉粒殼蟲它用這樣把它停下來,農民來找我停錢用這樣,沒用到那樣我們這樣啦吼,我們往來,這如果粉粒殼蟲兩部,包括柑橘類,我們在"},{"start":9274.452,"end":9296.587,"text":"生產的產業包裝鏈來的 我們增加一點成本完成水洗 料給它拆水來包裝這樣之前會有是因為 醫院噴的噴料 那個粉質的合成 還在落成 我在包裝的時候 還下來 還掉了這整個過程這麼簡單 為什麼你藏這個包裝藏規矩要處理 你就要來給它整理 沒必要"},{"start":9303.7,"end":9332.043,"text":"沒有必要你說去海峽論壇就叫做統戰如果這樣,其他你拿我賣,你拿我的農民去找一些銅鑼出來給我們啊你叫農委會、農業部來幫忙啊沒有啊,我們的魚啊孔雀,你掩底的時候你知不知道,要去澳名水散要去澳名,你掩掩,再掩掩"},{"start":9334.529,"end":9358.743,"text":"農民 他也是在說 漁民 農民都說 要不然我們來提升我們本身的檢驗跟包裝量我們要的是那個市場 我們要去建立那個市場日本 富齡有量的產品 漁類 我們就同意給它進來日本的情緒 除了台灣以外 它也是去台北情緒化的地方進來"},{"start":9359.946,"end":9372.874,"text":"對不對?大陸也是給他開放說好,如果有生意,大家可以進來美國也是去爭取大陸的市場,幫助他的農民賣啊!大刀!看能不能給我雞尾刮賣?大刀刀!"},{"start":9377.506,"end":9388.076,"text":"我們現在這個政府會作動農民出賣原過其實我們還是要幫農民找新的穩定的選擇你不要說我原過其實啦你告訴我你找的對答你找法國來法國你告訴我選擇不太好我告訴大家我們消費到法國"},{"start":9400.987,"end":9425.436,"text":"都沒有失業啊你剛才要停下來沒得選擇你運輸 只要運輸你補助沒得選擇一公斤多少錢 你知道嗎?高議員報告 我們是聽到我們駐法代表郝培芝說我們的水果 搶攻法國的高端市場停下來得住剛才賣那個飯店 你可以賣幾公斤啊我又不要吃 不吃不吃 不喝麻啦"},{"start":9426.374,"end":9454.304,"text":"你不知道我們處理的生意,政府補助不如想穩固一公斤補助多少,你知道嗎?你不知道,你不知道嘛!所以你要種,都種了解,我不是說你一定要都了解,才給我贏嘛!因為就是你大年輕了,我看不過去啦!我把這個事實點出來,沒那麼複雜啦!不要說不都種地化啦!要種地化,我也可以給你種地化!那又不會變,那又不會生意啊!"},{"start":9457.675,"end":9481.238,"text":"民產品到中國大樓去,我們都是被他養套殺,停停開開,說封殺就封殺,說暫停就暫停什麼叫停停開開啦,是今天開,忘了在停,後來又開,又停,叫養套殺,如果去到美國,台積電機你來就來,也不養也不套就直接殺,你看看"},{"start":9482.319,"end":9499.568,"text":"你還要跟台灣人報告一下?不要用政治的角度在這邊啦今天人在替農民簽名的時候我們也要保護我們的農民我們農民要多多支持你能夠做幾分的幫忙你就做幾分的幫忙但是我們農民...不要擴大開水"},{"start":9501.949,"end":9521.57,"text":"但是不要把農產品賣到統戰平台,難道那麼困難嗎?我們就一定要放在統戰平台,你去找一個地方出生就沒有了,你身為中華民國的官員,對中華民國的民主一個地方出生就沒有了,你是要派你去跟中國大陸交涉,我告訴你一輸不行!"},{"start":9535.489,"end":9536.202,"text":"我們現在休息五分鐘"},{"start":9832.824,"end":9842.602,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":9877.483,"end":9878.712,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":9942.452,"end":9956.821,"text":"好繼續開會我們現在請鄭正前委員發言質詢鄭正前鄭正前鄭正前不在下一位何新淳委員發言質詢何新淳何新淳何新淳不在下一位楊瓊英委員發言楊瓊英楊瓊英楊瓊英不在下一位請鄭天才委員發言質詢"},{"start":9977.433,"end":9981.915,"text":"好 再有請曾主委"},{"start":10009.735,"end":10013.157,"text":"好 這個 顏兵會的預算這個114年度的稅出這個結算 則結算執行率高達99.56%這個謝謝顏兵會所有的同仁"},{"start":10038.177,"end":10062.997,"text":"也就是意味著因為執行率這麼高按照預算法的規定雖然現在還在審預算照樣可以執行可以照樣可以執行完全沒有阻礙剛才的圖表就剛才的執行率結算我們看115年度嚴明會的預算比114年度"},{"start":10067.915,"end":10094.908,"text":"多了七億兩千兩百三十三萬五千元增加了七億多但是對原住民族部落非常非常重要的特色道路相關的計畫經費卻比一百一百一十五年度卻比一百一十四年度減略了四億一千多萬遺跡部落計畫"},{"start":10096.77,"end":10125.018,"text":"也檢列了七千九百多萬所以這個部分時間的關係這個很重要的計畫在請人民會提書面的說明那為什麼會檢列這麼多到底是人民會故意提的很少還是說國發會合併的時候行政院合併的時候減少了就把詳細的說明提供書面資料 好不好"},{"start":10126.457,"end":10155.169,"text":"接下來這個要請圖管處也上來這個也是要勉勵我們的所有園民會的同仁我們看這個台灣省3D保留地管理辦法在49年4月12號公布發布施行發布施行之後 劃設了24萬多公頃的3D保留地"},{"start":10156.564,"end":10184.586,"text":"然後呢 這個一位審議員一位立法委員的質詢當時的台灣省政府在民國76年以前開始調查調查完成之後所以才會有所謂的公有土地偵編原住民保留地處理原則才會定在77年2月1號以前就已經使用祖先的土地"},{"start":10185.441,"end":10214.749,"text":"而且繼續使用的就可以增編為原住民保留地上次我也講過這個沒有法律的依據喔可以把國有土地 縣有土地 鄉鎮市有的土地只要經過行政程序就可以成為私人的原住民保留地這個是多大的勇氣跟魄力"},{"start":10216.432,"end":10237.181,"text":"這個是要讓園民會及所有的同仁 尤其是圖管處要學習這種要學習我們看原住民保留地從過去的3D保留地24萬多公頃因為增畫邊原住民保留地增加了2萬647公頃"},{"start":10243.932,"end":10269.552,"text":"現在還在繼續所以這個部分一定要想盡辦法為原住民的權益去開創我們看這個原住民身份法這是幾例子89年9月16號行政院送出了原住民身份認定那時候送來的是條例"},{"start":10271.087,"end":10291.716,"text":"八十九年九月十六號一個會期曾子惠一個會期九十年一月四號就三讀通過了這個原住民身份法是原民會成立之後的第一個專法第一個專法工作權保障法是第二個"},{"start":10293.761,"end":10321.876,"text":"原民會成立我講原民會成立不是指當然原住民族教育法那時候原民會還沒成立所以這個部分也不是你的專法所以這個部分是我舉這個例子就是要讓大家要想盡辦法爭取原住民族的權益好那個曾慶忠你可以回去了我們看"},{"start":10323.952,"end":10350.181,"text":"這個主委 處長最高行政法院112年的判決畫設辦法第三條第二款將原住民族傳統領域土地定義限於公有土地一頁原基法第21條第四項授權目的及範圍竟論其將原住民族傳統領域土地僅限於公有土地"},{"start":10351.141,"end":10377.601,"text":"部分的規定為無效寫得那麼明確我們應該想盡辦法用這個來去趕快去修你的管理辦法原住民族土地的化設辦法趕快修啊而且是授權啊法律授權 延民會自己訂啊 自己修啊不需要送到行政院不需要送到行政院很遺憾的"},{"start":10381.462,"end":10410.543,"text":"本席行文給你們所以你們趕快依最高法院的判決發文了兩次你們的答覆你們的答覆都是一樣你說你們召開審那個座堂會諮詢座堂會還有專家寫者法律已經很明確了"},{"start":10413.049,"end":10442.022,"text":"曾主委在劃設辦法在發布的時候之前啊 延明會預告的105年延明會預告的就是包含私有土地原住民族傳統領域就是包含私有土地是因為行政院 當時的行政院兩個政務委員把它改掉的而當時的大家看一下"},{"start":10443.786,"end":10465.095,"text":"105年11月7號的會議記錄內政部的意見你們看到該法授權應定定之範疇為原住民族土地引號這是他們的引號不是我畫的引號會議記錄你們可以去看了原住民族土地引號部落引號集引號"},{"start":10466.317,"end":10488.752,"text":"其周邊一定範圍內之公有土地公有土地是指部落周邊一定範圍不包含公有土地不是限收在這個原住民族土地裡面跟部落裡面立法者是我啊原住民族基本法第21條當初的立法者是我"},{"start":10494.059,"end":10522.434,"text":"立法者是我行政院內政部的意見跟我意見一樣跟立法者的意見一樣行政院法規會的意見也跟立法者一樣那個公有土地是限收在部落周邊一定範圍的部分原住民族土地也就是傳統領域土地包含了私有土地"},{"start":10524.028,"end":10531.676,"text":"顏平輝你自己的意見也是一樣也是一樣所以這個部分你們應該要趕快自行不必再開什麼說明會"},{"start":10534.928,"end":10555.034,"text":"你們的報告你們的說明都需要我不用答覆了所以你們就是我跟你們報告一下就是說這個剛剛講的那個是就一個個案啦當然是個案可以做我們的論述基礎沒有錯但是就是說是有地的固然那是個案沒有錯但是好我們看這個"},{"start":10566.94,"end":10595.792,"text":"你要看這個最高行政法院的文字啊他說這個化社辦法第三條第二款他說第三條第二款一頁延期法二十一條第四項授權的目的及範圍不是談個案是在談這個法例談這個法規啊一頁是無效啊"},{"start":10597.423,"end":10613.635,"text":"所以不是談個案啦所以就算是個案我們也要想盡辦法透過這個個案成為通案這個爭取原住民主的權益就是要這樣會把它當作是一個趕快修啊現在已經115年了"},{"start":10616.34,"end":10625.585,"text":"去年去年去年去年去年去年去年去年去年去年去年去年去年去年去年去年去年去年去年去年去年去年去年去年去年去年"},{"start":10640.646,"end":10656.533,"text":"蘇貞昌院長蘇貞昌院長的時候他說他在110年3月12號我質詢他的時候他說我會分流利法因為他不想定顏住民族自治法他不想依顏住民族基本法"},{"start":10657.843,"end":10684.763,"text":"來制定原住民族自治法他也不他也不想依這個蔡英文總統說我會很快的把原住民族自治法送到立法院他也不想他說我會分流立法所以本席啊馬上就提出既然要分流立法就先成立自治線原住民族自治線我提出了地方制度法的修正符合"},{"start":10686.471,"end":10702.107,"text":"符合這些幾個條件就可以成立原住民族自治線所以你們現在花了很多錢原住民族自治線花了很多錢就修一條條趕快去協調內政部趕快協調相關的部會去說服他們"},{"start":10710.57,"end":10733.297,"text":"所以這個部分是涉及到跨部會的這個事情所以這個部分共同的來去努力所以這個部分當然這個自治戰型條例也是一個問題重要的最後因為已經按連很久了很多次了最後基金的部分原住民族綜合發展基金"},{"start":10735.31,"end":10751.265,"text":"一定要撥補要用公務預算不要再去談什麼我們想想看我是從91年度事實上在91年度之前就開始了因為每一年的公務預算撥給綜合發展基金"},{"start":10753.311,"end":10774.661,"text":"才會在105年的時候的結算數進此是117億7千多萬元如果有這個經費的話如果沒有被挪用作為進法補償的話我們的我們看這個住宅法一直沒有辦法實施的105年12月23號修正"},{"start":10778.615,"end":10804.937,"text":"公佈施行的專攻原住民成豬的社會住宅你們現在就是沒有錢了沒有錢沒有錢了如果有這個綜合發展基金的話對不對就可以興建原住民社會住宅還會可以這個當時就是說要三年內來做撥補嘛今天是第一年那我們一定會跟院裡面來爭取希望三年內能夠來撥補撥補"},{"start":10808.274,"end":10826.506,"text":"主委 撥補要扣掉 要扣掉作為進法補償才是真正的撥補喔對 進法補償要扣掉扣掉那個 才是真正的撥補加油 好 繼續努力謝謝撒一隻愣 撒一隻愣跑龍組怎麼說 撒一隻愣 攞愣 攞愣下面請吳立華委員發言質詢"},{"start":10844.584,"end":10850.771,"text":"謝謝主席 有請原民會主委跟原文會董事長主委好"},{"start":10860.652,"end":10874.702,"text":"我其實今天很感動,感動什麼呢?因為我在很多的社群媒體看到蘭嶼的那個20人的平板舟大船"},{"start":10875.72,"end":10895.407,"text":"昨天下午抵達我們八丹島對不對那非常多的空拍影片不是只有原住民在關注這件事有非常多的人都覺得這個壯舉真的是可以來繼續的辦理你覺得呢"},{"start":10896.027,"end":10923.076,"text":"可以繼續辦理因為我們這個我們跟巴丹島尤其是蘭嶼哥巴丹島根本就是同文同種他們的話完全一樣所以這本來就是一個家族只不過是海洋隔絕而已那我跟主委一樣我是覺得我非常的幸運能夠參與這一次的一個行程的規劃那我其實是在三年前"},{"start":10924.042,"end":10930.239,"text":"我就接到蘭嶼族人這個請託當然這個代表人就是現在原文會的董事長馬拉奧斯"},{"start":10931.377,"end":10953.624,"text":"他說想要做這件事情的時候其實還需要蠻龐大的經費所以在這邊特別感謝文化部跟園民會願意來承擔這個造州的經費那但是這個當中呢其實遇到蠻多的問題所以我在去年的五月我也找了十個部會一同的來協調這個案子"},{"start":10955.245,"end":10968.46,"text":"所以我特別希望就是唸出一下這些部會除了原民會、文化部其實參與這個計畫的還有外交部、交通部、海委會、內政部、農業部、財政部、衛福部、速發部"},{"start":10970.029,"end":10992.661,"text":"一趟航行真的是需要靠大家的努力一朵花成就不了一個春天所以呢我在這邊就是基於感動特別要謝謝所有參與的朋友跟部會那這個20人的拼板周大周呢是結合了蘭嶼的六個部落每個部落都有派人60人三組人馬"},{"start":10994.301,"end":11016.623,"text":"不分昼夜 從前天的早上滑 用力滑 滑到比昨天他們是下午3點到 他們原先預計是下午6點到也就是整整滑了30個小時所以在這邊我非常的高興 那我也希望這樣的工作能夠繼續的來辦理"},{"start":11018.425,"end":11026.051,"text":"因為他們分開也不過300年這是300年的恢復的守航但是距離145公里"},{"start":11028.664,"end":11054.443,"text":"並不遠可是因為不同的國家阻隔了我們的交流所以在這個部分我想未來陸海空的部分我們都應該要繼續的來努力那為什麼我要關心這個問題因為我看到我們今年的一個預算有一個新增的新興計劃科目115到120有一個它的科目名稱很特別主委"},{"start":11058.048,"end":11081.127,"text":"什麼意思台灣族的話從這裡出發所以我們這裡是什麼意思從台灣這塊土地出發要到哪裡要到南太平洋的這些我們的弟兄姊妹所以這個就是你之前園民會被刪掉的南島的經費嗎對對對所以你換了一個科目名稱"},{"start":11082.472,"end":11105.707,"text":"當然我們這個因為新的中長城計劃因為這個本來就要換名字是所以你特別用排灣的族語文字對當作這個科目的名稱是嗎是我覺得非常好啊其實以後每一個科目都可以用各族的族語來呈現我覺得也不錯好那這個部分我也是很擔心不會被刪吧"},{"start":11108.595,"end":11133.944,"text":"我們當然要特別拜託各位委員特別是原住民的委員 拜託因為我們原住民不是在做外交其實我們是在做文化跟我們的原來的好朋友來做聯誼的感情聽說我們的帛琉辦公室要裁撤了沒有沒有沒有因為他們跟我們有很長的情誼不論機會被怎麼殺我們都會在"},{"start":11134.904,"end":11151.547,"text":"因為我們的感情勝過於太多的這個這個經會的一個好 謝謝主委齁我希望您能守護住啊是齁這個去做這樣的一個南向的外交只有原住民為主體 原民會為主體才做得到啊是"},{"start":11152.508,"end":11164.916,"text":"我希望你們要守住好不好會那我在這裡呢要請一下那個主委還有負責教育文化的是不是副主委是陳一信副主委嗎還有教文處處長來我要跟主委說其實我今年"},{"start":11175.771,"end":11201.294,"text":"接到好幾個團體的陳情啊都跟教育文化語言有關我在1月有開過知識中心的協調會您也親自參與那另外就是語推組織也有來陳情原專班也有來陳情還蠻多團體就是今年就一些教育文化語言的事務來去做陳情我先說"},{"start":11202.535,"end":11231.786,"text":"我都是希望我不要開協調會啊我希望我們任何一個政策的發布或轉型一定要跟第一線實施的這些人員要做面對面的溝通討論如果再跑到民意代表這邊來就不好了好不好那我特別要講的就是因為主委您也很清楚吧我過去是老師那我在2000年九年一貫課程的時候"},{"start":11232.935,"end":11249.644,"text":"我非常努力的做一件事我把校本課程也就是所謂的彈琴學習結束我呼籲所有原住民的學校都應該要來做民族教育這是2000年的時候"},{"start":11250.615,"end":11264.722,"text":"那這些年呢我也不斷的在全國各縣市到處去演講推廣所以校本課程我非常的強調要做民族教育跟族語的一個教材相關的編輯發展"},{"start":11266.443,"end":11291.457,"text":"那教文處陳昆聖處長應該也很了解因為這個當中你也協助很多你也看見很多所以呢我在2010年也開始做全族語幼兒園也就是後來的沉浸式幼兒園那不論是民族教育或者是沉浸式幼兒園很感謝園民會帶頭就是去做這樣的一個推廣跟補助後來教育部也加進來"},{"start":11292.875,"end":11315.589,"text":"到了2014年呢我開始下一階段的目標就是去做族群本位各領域的教科書那我也在2018年編輯完畢在屏東先流通而已我也到全國去推廣可是我們在2015年呢我們開始有了實驗學校"},{"start":11317.028,"end":11345.791,"text":"我也在實驗學校之前就開始做了實驗班這些孩子也已經讀大學了都讀得很好現在使用這些教材的孩子們他們在每一年全國的測驗裡面也都是在高標表示這件事情是值得做的可是我在2016年離開了教育界我有兩件事沒有做到第一個就是我希望"},{"start":11347.011,"end":11375.193,"text":"各領域具備足語能力的教師這個要從師培端開始做那園民會也從零歲的足語保姆開始做我認為應該是十年後會有成績出來但是這個部分到現在我還很難看到學校裡面各領域的老師具備足語能力進行教學很困難我講的不是母語老師我講的是一般的教師"},{"start":11376.616,"end":11402.699,"text":"那只有這個完備了之後目標還沒有達到就是我希望的是原住民族學校一個原住民族學校裡面老師要具備一定的族語能力要有族群本位的課程教材這是非常重要的兩個基本款那我現在就是要特別講因為我下個禮拜在教育文化委員會我有安排一個原住民族學校的公聽會因為我覺得共識不足"},{"start":11403.8,"end":11424.109,"text":"沒有人談得清楚到底什麼叫原住民主學校可是我覺得好可惜因為原民會在做的這些事情全部都是在為這件事情努力所以我現在想請教一下我1月的時候全國各個知識中心我們開了協調會有結論啊好 處長您可不可以提一下那個結論"},{"start":11426.33,"end":11455.442,"text":"這決定就是說我們目前整個知識體系建構這個專案計畫在去年度結束之後我們會開始研訂第二期的計畫那這個計畫已經 換我們的主委已經核定了所以我們明年就可以開始來執行我們第二期的計畫那我們會在第一期計畫所建構的期數之下開始來做教材的研發因為我也知道要做知識建構這件事情最重要就是要回到教育的現場來做教材的發展跟課程的實施嘛"},{"start":11455.822,"end":11480.01,"text":"那過去的第一階段的整理出來的這些成果就是做我們第二期開始做教材跟課程實施一個最重要的依據所以我們是延續現在做這件事情那處長您要特別注意因為雖然那個知識中心四年期計畫告一個段落然後接下來第二階段我們要開始結合所謂的課程教材但是有一些知識中心他可能才成立一年"},{"start":11481.07,"end":11501.645,"text":"才剛開始我希望這個部分不論是他的知識的一個收整到課程的轉化教材的編轉我覺得這個部分乃至於課綱他其實都是在跟時間賽跑而且他本來就是一件事我希望這個部分原民會你們的錢會變少嗎目前差不多是維持那個"},{"start":11505.828,"end":11521.165,"text":"所以我們的教育經費其實是維持的所以就是要完成這些事情因為很多人都在陳情我希望我們園民會能夠好好的把關那另外就是園專班因為好多人說園專班園民會沒有補助了"},{"start":11522.202,"end":11544.59,"text":"那難道原專班就不做了嗎其實原專班沒有補助原專班目前在全台灣有生殖所那因為現在過去是漁民部在協助後來教育部也加入這樣的一個計畫的協助那我們認為這樣的資源是不用傳輸去做補助所以我們把因為經濟在轉型做我們未來的公費生培育的專班的使用所以是兩個目標不一樣那所以"},{"start":11546.29,"end":11569.52,"text":"處長原專班我知道現在因為考選部教育部原民會也在談關鍵人才的培育包括原住民的公務人才的培育包括原住民各領域人才的培育包括原住民在大學高教這一端的師資的培育那跟這些我們的經費跟教育部都是一起用的嗎"},{"start":11570.629,"end":11588.099,"text":"目前對我們幾個重點領域的專班的經費會員另外來支持那一般的原專班我們希望是由教育部持續來支持這樣雙軌來推動我們高教的原產那請問有沒有選定我們原住民的一些關鍵領域像土木"},{"start":11588.499,"end":11603.572,"text":"像土夢 農業 公務 行政 文化 族語什麼時候開始我們經營都已經開始了所以經費有編列都編列了 而且計畫都合併了好 那我等下最後會要求兩周內給我一個書面報告沒問題 謝謝委員那最後就是雨推啊"},{"start":11604.993,"end":11623.713,"text":"語推有很多人跟我反應那語推又是變成要怎麼樣其實也是一樣的問題就是說過去語化法有規定我們要協助各組成立語推組織可是過去我們是用一個比較偏變通的方式是由相關的民間的協會就來代表某一個民主的語推組織我想這個是一個"},{"start":11624.133,"end":11650.635,"text":"民不正 言不順的問題所以過去在推動整個主委副政工作他們沒有辦法用很正式的身份去推所以我們建議都開始轉型希望能協助各組依照法律的規定來成立正式的全國性與推組織未來他們民政之後就能夠延續那我們何去未來跟這些正式成員與推組織來做後續的與推的工作當然是以族群單位大家沒有意見啦但是我聽說都在招考年輕人啊"},{"start":11652.131,"end":11674.327,"text":"當然因為過去現在我們最大的問題是我們的人才已經斷產了我們的宇推人員都已經是六十五歲七十歲了未來我們的宇推人員就是要以年輕人來承擔當然要第二代開始來接下來是用師徒制的方式嗎師徒制還有我們辦理專案培訓跟我們的公會專班那這些人才你們也可以轉接到未來去師培端嗎成為學校國中國小的教師嗎當然可以"},{"start":11676.929,"end":11701.601,"text":"不是主語教師,我講的是一般教師那我要談的就是說其實主語這一塊的拼圖非常的困難比課程教材更加的困難,不是那麼容易所以我希望原民會你們在教育部之外這一塊是你們應該要著力的所以我特別希望人家有意見"},{"start":11702.722,"end":11730.468,"text":"你們要跟第一線的溝通透過民意代表我覺得就不好了我真的是希望園民會能夠做好溝通的工作那我也期待我們的原住民族學校能夠早日形成共識早日三讀過案早日成立這樣可以嗎那我就是希望說把這個我剛剛通篇講的這些能夠在兩週內提供我辦公室一個書面的答覆可以沒有問題"},{"start":11731.628,"end":11742.398,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝主委好 謝謝主席下一位請林一金委員發言質詢謝主席 有請曾主委 園民會曾主委"},{"start":11760.518,"end":11784.608,"text":"主委好我今天最主要是來向您請教就到底西拉雅什麼時候能核定那經過了解西拉雅族現在民族會已經開過好幾次那本席也有參加其中一場那現在基本上這個民族成員的身份要件已經確認差不多那就是不知道什麼時候會被行政院核定"},{"start":11785.308,"end":11799.746,"text":"那只有你去年參加吉貝耍的業績的時候你說2026年會迎接原住民族第17組的希拉雅族的加入那只有今年你參加原住民博物館的動土典禮的時候"},{"start":11801.918,"end":11830.335,"text":"據大五龍族的族人說你又說明年就是2027年才有辦法有第十七族的加入主委你這樣翻來翻去我直接問你到底是對不上問題啦那什麼時候才能真正合併那為什麼你本來說今年現在又說明年主委我跟你們報告齁這個這個希臘雅族這個合併的申請案齁在5月20號已經我們就已經送院裡面"},{"start":11831.004,"end":11858.455,"text":"那很快的會依法來刊登公告之後個人的身份就可以馬上辦理登記啦我講的是希拉雅對希拉雅希拉雅部所以我們這應該是這陣子很快執行院院很快就要合併公告對對對我們就可以來受理這個希拉雅的身份的登記了是現在就在等執行院院合併啦對啊他什麼時候要合併啦你怎麼找啊"},{"start":11860.168,"end":11886.818,"text":"我有出啊 我有出啊 也拜託也跟政委報告啦 也跟院長報告會 會啦 會比較快啦會啦 會比較久啦那為什麼你會在原住民博物館動土送鱗說2027會迎接第17組而來臨如果你今年 那個行政院何定應該就是單純的口誤啦對不對這可能是單純的口誤啦"},{"start":11889.366,"end":11909.507,"text":"所以還是今年 就是2026年會迎接第17組 西亞族族系列會很快另外我們當初在平埔族原住民族身份法審議的時候有個附帶決議就是要求立法院通過這個法令六個月內"},{"start":11911.969,"end":11937.567,"text":"提出修法跟立法的清單就是很多的執法嘛 相關的執法那去年十月三讀通過現在六月了所以已經超過半年了可是你目前你都沒有看到任何的東西啊那我們一直催促你們那你們才給我們一紙回覆說今年五月十九號你有召集客部會來延伸執法"},{"start":11939.568,"end":11941.368,"text":"那是盤點 盤點有關的法例差不多有128個"},{"start":11961.713,"end":11977.539,"text":"各部會趕快我們也在催各部會九月三十號回復的話我們就馬上來做協調來研議來報行政院來簽訂一半八十倍我們今天不是說那些東西這些有一個清單嗎是啊是啊今天也有一個抄案的清單你知道我的意思嗎我知道那所以你現在已經準備好了是啊128種我已經在盤點好我們相信在九月三十號"},{"start":11988.763,"end":12014.611,"text":"之前我們回覆之後我們很快的來做一些協調還有政策的演繹我們也報行政院趕快來這個確認的參考啦好不好對啦因為這個是跨黨派的附帶決議啊的要求所以是不是主委你目前你有手上的你們有擬定出來的相關的執法的清單是不是可以先給本辦清單可以OK好那就麻煩主委再加油謝謝"},{"start":12022.199,"end":12024.421,"text":"我們下一位請陳英委員發言質詢謝主席麻煩請園民會主委嗯"},{"start":12050.641,"end":12078.354,"text":"委員好主委好我想我們今天先來關心一下原住民與全國國民平均餘命的問題原住民的全國國民平均餘命已經不再呈現縮小的趨勢這件事情我去年底在主計總署公布2024年平均餘命的資料的時候當時本期就在衛環委員會有特別提醒衛福部"},{"start":12079.855,"end":12108.225,"text":"不太確定當天是不是也有這個原民會的代表在會議上面那看這個圖就是說待會有兩張圖讓大家看一下這是一個很重要的警訊那我不曉得說從去年開始到現在你們有沒有意識到這個很嚴重的問題那在這一張當然是就是說我們先看一下"},{"start":12110.127,"end":12126.63,"text":"上一張這是2022年的資料然後下一張是2023年的資料我們看一下這個平均餘命我們先回頭去看上一張"},{"start":12128.112,"end":12151.852,"text":"上一張呢我們當然就是說從這個民國101年到111年那我們這個全國的這個就是我們的平均餘命跟這個全體國民的平均壽命的這個差距是一路下降那這個圖看起來都還蠻漂亮的一直到民國111年好我們再看下一張"},{"start":12154.237,"end":12166.758,"text":"但是呢到民國111年到113年之後呢我們的這個原住民的平均餘命跟全體國民的平均餘命卻開始這個差距又拉大了"},{"start":12168.919,"end":12180.931,"text":"而且你看喔而且他是連續兩年的統計都變成這個樣子那我們本期跟這個內政部統計處統計處確認"},{"start":12184.594,"end":12199.209,"text":"就是說不論是用單年的統計或者是說三年平均的數據那這個縮小趨勢確實已經是產生變化了那到底是什麼樣的原因你們有沒有思考過各位我們有思考就是說我們有請專家學者有針對這個部分來去"},{"start":12208.123,"end":12236.244,"text":"做說明但是他給我們的結論是說我們原住民的平均平均不能單看一年或兩年的應該要看整整年的比如說五年跟十年那這個11年的部分他確實是往下這有注意到但是後來的兩年又又那個那個差距又拉大了所以我們我們這個部分而且我們也有看那個內政部跟衛福部的部分也針對這個部分我們促進健康促進跟一些相關的計劃都是不變"},{"start":12238.527,"end":12266.682,"text":"但是這幾年的你有沒有去研究一下有可能是哪些原因你們有沒有跟衛福部也討論過主要是看十大十一有一個變化你不能說要看五年十年那因為這兩三年已經有出現這樣的趨勢的時候你們就應該要有警覺要趕快去思考而不是說那我是不是還要再等個六七年之後我再來看"},{"start":12267.538,"end":12289.771,"text":"我們會針對我們每年的健康年報的那個內容那你從這幾年年報你有沒有發現我們嬰兒死亡率是上升還是下降嬰兒死亡率是比全國的是有高一點多倍那這會不會是一個原因因為這裡面的話我們有一個很大的因素是我們的分母數是太少了"},{"start":12290.424,"end":12308.939,"text":"那有時候那個分母數太少了一個變動就會那數據就差很多我想大概也就特別要提醒你們啦那當然因為嬰兒死亡率提升這也是一個需要注意的地方這當然會整體拉低就是他會"},{"start":12311.1,"end":12336.746,"text":"影響那個整個平均餘命的這個數字那我想說是這樣提醒我們原住民族健康法的主管機關雖然是衛福部但是呢原民會呢是我們原住民的這個事務的這個最高主管機關那如果有警覺到問題呢就應該要趕快去了解背後的原因那趕快主動去跟衛福部討論這個因應措施"},{"start":12338.306,"end":12364.98,"text":"我們有跨部會健康那個那個政策會議我想在這邊提供提供你們一點訊息啦當然衛福部初步的分析全國國人平均餘命提高但是原住民平均餘命降低的原因因為今年原住民嬰兒死亡率提高還有原住民長者死於肺病都有增加我想提供這些訊息那也請你們能夠很積極的去注意這些原因好不好好"},{"start":12366.321,"end":12387.478,"text":"再來一個很重要的議題在十年前我回到立法院之後就是說提出原住民金庫的構想希望解決我們原住民保留地因為移轉限制長期無法作為有效擔保品導致我們族人明明有土地卻無法向金融機構取得貸款的這些問題"},{"start":12388.479,"end":12407.987,"text":"不過這項政策的後續的推動遭遇了很多的困難因此到了上一屆我們改變策略來推動原住民保留地貸款信用保證的方式希望透過信用保證機制協助族人取得金融資源"},{"start":12408.447,"end":12425.167,"text":"那當然這個政策歷經了這個三屆的這個行政院三任的行政院長還有無數次大家的很多的跨部會的協調那當然我們今年終於上路了那我想請教一下主委就是說目前受理的狀況怎麼樣"},{"start":12427.082,"end":12452.123,"text":"目前這個我們這個貸款的信用保證已經和已經審核通過三件那金額是大概1179萬到這個5月18日為止還有案件18件那申請的總金額大概是一億一千多萬那現在是銀行在金融機構在審查當中那我們在推動過程"},{"start":12453.144,"end":12472.102,"text":"我們有主動的了解遭遇的困難那主要是借新還舊還有原保地的信用貸款資金是不是可以作為自購住宅貸款的這個自備款的來源等等我們已經就是說希望能夠來把它協調好目前這些問題都應該都能夠"},{"start":12473.743,"end":12495.697,"text":"就是都有所依蜜好謝謝主委回覆那因為每一個金融機構他們都有自己的內規他當然在元寶地的這個貸款是我們政府的政策所以要麻煩原民會要很積極的持續與他們溝通要求要承辦的這個公股銀行戶應該要配合計劃執行那除此之外本席在這裡有個建議"},{"start":12498.379,"end":12515.412,"text":"就是為了要擴大原保地貸款信用保證的服務範圍我希望把農會跟漁會也納入承辦單位農會跟漁會也是原住民常常會去"},{"start":12517.353,"end":12543.616,"text":"辦理很多這個金融相關的事務那事實上呢原保地貸款的信用保證制度上路之前許多原鄉地區的農會他們其實就已經有受理原保地相關貸款的案件那對於這個族人呢的需求跟地方實務運作他們其實相對的是相當有經驗的所以我當初在協調推動原保地貸款信用保證制度的時候就是"},{"start":12544.416,"end":12563.293,"text":"在政策上路之後下一步應該要擴大適用範圍讓這個農會漁會都能夠參與辦理那也方便族人我們會已經在研議讓農會還有漁會來加入我們大概什麼時候可以上路應該三個月內就可以了我們來協調好不好"},{"start":12564.701,"end":12583.821,"text":"好那這個原保地信用貸款的這個政策它不只解決原保地的就是說無法向金融機構貸款的問題我覺得更深層的一個意義就是它是又關於我們原住民土地正義的跟財產保障這兩個很重要的這個指標"},{"start":12585.262,"end":12585.522,"text":"是 好 謝謝"},{"start":12628.646,"end":12640.437,"text":"好 不好意思剛剛那個紙黏住了抱歉對 因為跟教文好 非常簡短不到一頁"},{"start":12644.782,"end":12660.392,"text":"針對原住民自治列槍的安全訓練課程在新制上路之後實務上課程遲遲無法順利開辦造成我們族人很多申請資格時程充滿不確定性"},{"start":12661.272,"end":12681.779,"text":"那我在這個6月4號的時候有邀集園民會跟國防部召開協調會那園民會有很明確的表示下半年規劃辦理40場的訓練課程並在7月正式上路那這個時候這個是你們當時承諾的進度我要請教就是說目前的整體規劃是不是有沒有什麼問題能不能在7月順利的啟動"},{"start":12683.66,"end":12698.852,"text":"好 謝謝委員關心我想那個原住民族列強訓練的課程我們現在已經在上網幫你招標我們預計在七月初會完成決標那廠商徵選出來之後我們就開始受理報名我們爭取在七月底派出來開第一場的課程"},{"start":12699.514,"end":12725.325,"text":"好 那現在又蹦出八月初 七月底 八月初我們本來規劃就是七月初也就說禮拜五那台東花蓮原住民人口眾多但目前缺乏就是合法的靶場可以供訓練使用那本席呢 也在協調會中協調了國防部在不影響國軍訓練的任務跟靶場使用的時段下國防部已經有同意優先提供人民會辦理課程使用"},{"start":12725.805,"end":12753.313,"text":"好那依照國防部的作業機制喔各個靶場當月使用情形會在前一個月的第三週確認所以台東花蓮七月份國軍靶場可提供的時段呢近期就會確定所以請這個園民會務必加強跟國防部的這個橫向溝通跟聯繫確保我們這個場地能夠及時到位也讓這個課程能夠順利辦理好不要再讓族人等待好謝謝主委我們我們會來注意這個期程好謝謝"},{"start":12761.325,"end":12786.406,"text":"好 謝謝那這邊宣告我們中午不休息那可能因為還有一些委員要質詢的那如果說有要補充血糖的部分大家就自請用餐沒有關係那我們就下一位請蘇清泉委員發言質詢蘇清泉蘇清泉蘇清泉不在下一位請陳冠廷委員發言質詢陳冠廷陳冠廷陳冠廷不在下一位請葉元之委員發言質詢葉元之葉元之葉元之不在下一位請徐欣盈委員發言質詢"},{"start":12795.951,"end":12797.82,"text":"謝謝主席 本席有請邱主委 陸委會"},{"start":12806.87,"end":12823.359,"text":"邱主委好本席首先就直接先問一個基本的判斷主委您認不認同近期我們兩岸的情勢沒有趨於緩和反而是變得更複雜更嚴峻更不可預測您認同嗎"},{"start":12827.437,"end":12840.523,"text":"是的,我們在6月1號到10號,中共的海警船、海巡船、公務船到我們東部外海,宣稱他擁有主權跟管轄權,這部分當然會帶給兩岸關係高度的對立。"},{"start":12844.185,"end":12857.318,"text":"應該也不止這些啦我們長期以來當然中共軍機海警在台海周邊常態化包含我們海底電纜被破壞的這些疑慮認知作戰假訊息"},{"start":12859.88,"end":12878.028,"text":"這些狀況還有包括ECFA的優惠陸續取消還有我們國人赴陸港澳人身安全的風險升高等等所以您剛剛也認同我們真的兩岸的情勢更加的嚴峻更不可預測"},{"start":12879.068,"end":12907.085,"text":"所以既然两岸情势更严峻的话我们可以知道这两岸的这个风险已经不是过去单纯的交流问题或是协商问题这些都涉及到国家安全经济安全资讯安全以及人身安全都变成是复合型的风险是复合型的施压对那也是复合型的施压那所以呢在这样的一个情况下"},{"start":12908.186,"end":12917.572,"text":"我們陸委會一直跟對岸還是沒有辦法做理性的溝通這個部分是很大的一個問題"},{"start":12918.587,"end":12936.461,"text":"是,跟委員報告,我們跟絕大部分的人都一致,我們希望維持台海和平穩定繁榮的現狀那你具體的做法,你希望,大家都希望啊我們現在沒有說什麼交流中斷,我們現在跟中國大陸,還有許多的交流在進行你們沒辦法跟對岸談嗎?"},{"start":12941.243,"end":12957.264,"text":"我想我們海基會在這邊我們海基會我想經常就傳相當多的資訊兩岸溝通管道有沒有中斷我想是他們製造的障礙他們要我們答應他政治前提"},{"start":12959.206,"end":12973.378,"text":"這個政治前提就是要九二公式一個中國原則在九二公式裡面沒有中華民國生存的空間我們既保衛中華民國維護台灣主體我們不可能接受那個這些你都講過"},{"start":12975.84,"end":12994.08,"text":"你的理由永遠一致那在你這樣的前提下你入委會你不可以致我們不管是台商過去經商或者是我們台灣人民我們過去這個旅遊交流他們的風險你不能"},{"start":12996.442,"end":13010.28,"text":"我們陸委會你更需要具備風險的預警國人的保護還有台商的協助交流管制反制統戰等等甚至跨部會的協調能力"},{"start":13011.201,"end":13033.453,"text":"所以陸委會的責任其實應該是更重的但是我們陸委會就因為一個對岸如何如何所以很多你應該要做的你都沒有做那沒關係我本席接著問你面對這樣的情形陸委會至少要有四種能力你們看看你們具備幾種第一個風險研判"},{"start":13036.277,"end":13049.248,"text":"的能力政策預警的能力跨部會協調的能力還有我們對國會和人民說明你們陸委會成效以及問責的能力我請問你這四個能力你具備了幾個"},{"start":13050.759,"end":13078.728,"text":"跟委員報告就風險研判您回答我幾個就可以了我覺得至少我們都努力在達成包括風險研判我想我們陸委會的同仁長期在做兩岸情勢風險的研判提供給決策參考提供給百工百業我們台灣社會來注意你有提供風險研判嗎對我上次質詢的時候你提供了什麼你講一下"},{"start":13079.921,"end":13094.06,"text":"是 我們政治經濟社會各方面的政策對 政治經濟社會 文化各方面你是提供政策還是你提供研判現在我們台灣人不同的身份你有提供不同的警示嗎如果他要去大陸的話"},{"start":13096.432,"end":13122.232,"text":"我們平時在我們網路上面平時就要呼籲所以你們在網路上呼籲你剛說要溝通嘛 要努力溝通包括跨部會的溝通我們跟跨部會的溝通是非常順暢那我請教你我們國人赴陸港澳的安全分級機制你們有列出來嗎"},{"start":13124.166,"end":13150.151,"text":"我們很關注我們國人所以沒有列出來啊所以你的風險研判你並沒有提供啊我們定期都有發布我們在中國大陸遇到的人身自由風險的警示比如說我們其實我們對每一個個案都很關注而且這一些風險它可能是複合性的"},{"start":13150.831,"end":13168.423,"text":"他不一定是單一的有些人他可能是因為政治因素有些人可能經濟有些人經濟加政治他可能過去經商他可能又是民進黨的黨員所以他又有了政治的因素所以這些複合的風險指標你們並沒有定出來"},{"start":13170.343,"end":13189.303,"text":"本席今天因為要審預算我們特別說你們陸委會115年稅出的預算比上一年度114年你增加了1億4338萬6千元你的增幅增加了16%本席剛剛問陸委會基本的四項能力"},{"start":13190.906,"end":13210.846,"text":"你說你至少有兩項但實際上你講的第一個風險研判我也也沒看到你實際做出來風險研判我們的資料非常多我們跟社會公布的也很多那你如果要了解我們都可以願意跟委員做這個說明沒有我就最基本講的你國人"},{"start":13211.914,"end":13228.358,"text":"去入港澳的你安全機制你有沒有給好那我請問你有沒有經濟脅迫預警清單呢有沒有跟委員報告經濟脅迫預警也是我們非常重視我們今天發布的第一個在中國大陸經商它除了經濟的風險又多了政治的風險同時中國大陸的經濟下滑"},{"start":13237.981,"end":13260.509,"text":"我們都提出很多的風險讓我們台商了解你提出來讓台商有感那台商出了問題你能處理嗎你能夠協助處理嗎本席聽說你就是列出一堆律師名單給他們我們的陸委我們的政府的機構相關的單位沒有辦法給他協助委員不是這樣包括海基會的財經法律顧問"},{"start":13261.449,"end":13283.961,"text":"我們台商張老師我們透過許多的工協會都一起在幫我們政府來協助我們的台商大陸台商就是負大陸投資那他頭洗下去了他先投資了一些後來可能大陸方面他用司法脅迫要求說"},{"start":13285.39,"end":13290.458,"text":"我們大陸有一些需要你有一些更先進的技術我要求你要拿過來"},{"start":13292.162,"end":13316.929,"text":"那台商沒辦法 頭洗下去只能這樣那這種情形你們怎麼處理你有沒有處理的經驗我們過去要長期來輔導協助台商大概分幾個類型就針對我的問題回答就好 都沒時間了我們對台商還是要在地輔導你有沒有經驗 你有沒有碰過你有沒有協助 有沒有協助成功 有沒有績效"},{"start":13317.529,"end":13341.677,"text":"我想這些成功案例跟績效很多海基會就是一個我想他們有很多具體的案例我們經貿處有很多具體的案例內委會也是有很多那這些部分我想如果委員知道我們都可以把這些成效成果提高一點點你說有但我們聽不到具體的你說你要提供給我可以會後提供給我那最後我要再問你這個"},{"start":13343.217,"end":13368.778,"text":"我們現在有關認知作戰很多快速的澄清以及AI身為應處的機制你們有嗎我們最重視這個鋪天蓋地的認知作戰我們有結合快速澄清跟這個AI身為你的應處機制你有嗎有成效嗎當然我們立委會是站在如果中國大陸有這個身為的這個"},{"start":13372.321,"end":13395.082,"text":"短影片或者是機器人的假帳號鋪天蓋地我們都會跟相關主管機關配合我們最主要就是要把它澄清澄清最重要對 你有嗎我們一直在做我們與各部會在努力但是我們覺得因為他這個你要新增因為現在他與時俱進我們看到的是跟不上再來再來"},{"start":13397.354,"end":13423.65,"text":"這個陸委會啊其實很多我們跟大陸的問題它是跨部會的所以陸委會有沒有辦法跨部會同仇我們剛剛跟您報告就是說我們跟各部會的溝通非常的暢通而且非常有效率我們看到的只要跟大陸發生什麼事是各部會各司其職各自運作你有跨部會同仇"},{"start":13424.55,"end":13438.134,"text":"絕對不會各自運作大部分對中國大陸我們統籌各部會形成一致的做法那很快的在國安會的指導之下都能夠因應對中國大陸的挑戰"},{"start":13443.235,"end":13459.832,"text":"你提出具體的因為你在回答的時候都沒有任何具體的沒有委員不能這樣說你要讓我有時間講來所以我們沒有我時間給你都不照問題回答你就開始扯委員你不能這樣講那我們願意跟你說明提供資料好好講我們最後結論來講我們"},{"start":13462.214,"end":13490.775,"text":"陸委會今年預算增加了16%嘛你預算增加你能力要增加嘛跟我們報告我們去年預算被刪掉18%那你就給我你的績效好不好我剛剛提的幾個面向你績效給我嘛你的反制作為你也具體提出來給我還有你的預警呢我們反統戰反滲透的具體作為我想這一年來社會是有目共睹你就具體提出來好不好多久給我一個禮拜內"},{"start":13491.996,"end":13511.2,"text":"可以嗎 明天禮拜四 下禮拜三嘛你都已經有現成的啊 你就整理給我嘛好 我們盡量快好 下禮拜五以前因為這不是具體現成的好 沒問題好 謝謝謝謝陸委會主委那我很快的請原民會 我們曾主委一提好不好委員好好"},{"start":13516.386,"end":13535.1,"text":"鄭主委本席最後的時間要替我們所有園鄉的孩子來爭取就是我們園鄉孩子最大的困難不是不努力是距離是離機會太遠什麼機會呢他們住得遠上學也遠補習也遠"},{"start":13537.922,"end":13561.998,"text":"網路也遠 還有家裡可以支撐他的資源也比較遠所以本席想了解 園民會有沒有把整個我們園鄉的孩子的交通 住宿 課後陪伴 數位學習包含他的心理支持 升學輔導整合成一張本席想看到的我們園鄉兒少的學習支撐地圖"},{"start":13564.977,"end":13579.617,"text":"你們針對原鄉兒少的學習有沒有一個完整的你們的對原鄉兒少的照顧那當然我稱它為支撐地圖有沒有主委你就先回答我有沒有因為時間有限嘛"},{"start":13580.557,"end":13604.689,"text":"有啊有有好那你說明一下簡要說明跟委員說明一下從幼教到學前到我們國民教育界都我們有一個完善的對原住民孩子的支撐包括清函的獎助學金包括我們在課後的照顧包括我們在數位的辦讀都是我們原民會目前都在做的心理支撐呢生學輔導生學輔導因為這屬於教育部的業務"},{"start":13606.172,"end":13632.544,"text":"啊 沒有啊你如果這樣說到時候中小學啊這屬於縣市政府的業務不可以這樣我們為什麼這個變成教育部我們這完整的你原鄉的孩子你要你這一塊要把它補強來而且就本席了解我會提出來就是我們覺得還缺乏當然你說有那沒關係會後你也提出具體的這個證明讓我們看好不好好 謝謝"},{"start":13646.262,"end":13658.487,"text":"好 我們接下來請廖先祥招委好 謝謝主席 麻煩邀請我們羅文嘉秘書長好 來 羅文嘉秘書長"},{"start":13665.461,"end":13682.143,"text":"我們先討論民生,有時間再講政治就是我們現在海峽兩岸有一些台灣的同胞在大陸過世了那最近我自己身邊有一個這樣子的服務案件那除了我自己的案件也常聽到有一些類似的案件,就是說"},{"start":13683.064,"end":13712.621,"text":"人在對岸過世了那可能沒有清除在那一邊然後導致他的遺體的處理出現了一些困難那先請教一下這部分應該是我們海基會的業務沒錯嗎如果有碰到困難他們向海基會請求協助的時候我們提供協助目前這樣子SOP大概是怎麼樣如果說人在對面往生了然後聯絡不到台灣的家屬遺體就擺在那邊可能有些好幾年了分類型您講的這類型應該他可能"},{"start":13713.058,"end":13730.187,"text":"去中國工作很多年了在那邊居住之後很多年跟台灣失去聯繫然後過世之後發現找不到台灣親屬你講的可能是這個類型對很多這種類型那這個類型呢基本上呢對岸會透過相關團體跟海基會聯絡請海基會來協助協尋在台灣還有沒有家屬親屬那我們隨即會透過內政部"},{"start":13737.51,"end":13759.92,"text":"還有各地方政府去了解根據他提供的資訊到地方政府來了解他有沒有家屬如果有家屬我們隨即找到家屬想辦法找到家屬找到這家屬之後跟他說明狀況然後請求家屬能不能有幾個方式第一個親自前往如果家屬願意處理那就簡單如果家屬不願意他願不願意簽相關的授權同意書"},{"start":13763.081,"end":13778.577,"text":"是如果他又簽授權同意書一部分就他們不配合的話你講完全不配合就不配合完全不配合這個問題我們就會回覆到對岸是說相關如何如何那對岸他就要根據說他確實找不到"},{"start":13779.468,"end":13794.075,"text":"或是家屬不願意簽據相關的同意書那就你們的了解現在大概有多少的在大陸往生的人因為這些程序的關係導致他還沒有辦法火化你們有沒有了解有多少的案例"},{"start":13796.957,"end":13821.094,"text":"我們的案例基本上沒有做特別的統計因為他是有陳情來我們協助處理我們處理這段是想辦法在台灣找到授權同意書當我們完全的辦法滿足沒有家屬願意做這個事情會無法取得我們告訴對岸那對岸他就要去評估他要怎麼處理那他的處理方式有很多有很多方式有可能是"},{"start":13823.059,"end":13848.251,"text":"那我就希望說我們海基會我今天就先把問題提出來除了自己本身遇到了我在大陸也會聽到一些類似這樣子的一個狀況能處理的當然就照剛剛您講的程序處理不能處理的我們也要有一個最後的一個方案然後來告訴對岸可能他因為他人畢竟還是我們中華民國政府的國民嘛那我們海基會是不是能夠授權怎樣的一個文書讓他們能夠全權處理"},{"start":13849.412,"end":13868.223,"text":"我想我還是要有這樣的一個機制當所有現有的機制沒辦法解決之後那也不可能永遠讓他在那邊永遠不入土為阿嘛那目前現在就是有這樣的一個狀況有的案例但非常少那按照法律的相關規定兩岸各自的法律規定基本上沒有同意書就不能火化"},{"start":13869.286,"end":13884.874,"text":"是,那大體就不能火化,這是相關的,他的法律這麼規定有沒有辦法由中華民國政府,或者由我們海基會來出具統一書這樣的方式?基本上對岸不會...海基會嘛,就海基會嘛"},{"start":13886.735,"end":13907.958,"text":"如果說海基會的話我們也願意來協調和協助或者說那趨勢的一些困難那既然問題出現了就是要把它解決嘛我們今天把問題提出來那我也不見得有比你們更好的方式但是現在就是問題出來希望我們海基會後續來探討一下那也跟隊長討論一下能夠怎麼樣把這件事情處理我們有兩個處理的方式方向"},{"start":13908.599,"end":13932.035,"text":"第一個如您所講的我們來協調有沒有透過一個正式機制可以獲得解決一旦碰到這種案例第二個在沒有正式機制和法律上可以處理的時候我們有沒有其他的可解決的方式那事實上還是有的好那就麻煩我們的海基委那後續再慢慢做這方面的一個問題的探討好謝謝那就先回座我們請那個邱主委"},{"start":13939.073,"end":13964.119,"text":"主委好,最近我們陸委會就是宣告這個海峽論壇是統戰一個平台,那當然統戰它是一個概念,它有一個目的,那剛剛我也聽到您清楚的表達,它的一個目的就是消滅中華民國政府嘛,對不對,那你也知道我上禮拜有去平台嘛對不對,那消滅中華民國,我就很老實在這邊跟主委分享一下,"},{"start":13964.719,"end":13987.406,"text":"其實我在海峽論壇的過程中完全沒有聽到任何一個這個中共的官員公開的在提到統一這兩個字那我想請問陸委會的事我們過去海峽論壇辦了很多次嘛他們在會議當中曾經出現了怎樣子的言論或是活動的流程讓我們的陸委會判斷他這個論壇的目的是在消滅中華民國政府"},{"start":13994.048,"end":14009.704,"text":"有沒有相關的案例可以分享?謝謝委員最主要是他辦了很多在這個統戰平台有很多的政治前提那一定要支持九二共識反對台獨"},{"start":14011.326,"end":14034.373,"text":"或者是要答應所謂的支持九二共識反對台獨跟消滅中華民國並沒有直接的關聯委員我們知道中共領導人習近平在2019年元一二號習五條就特別提到他重新定義九二共識所謂九二共識就是兩國屬意中更由國家統一統一在一國兩制台灣方案上我們林登輝總統的這個促統會裡面怎麼解釋一個中國"},{"start":14041.854,"end":14045.459,"text":"李登輝總統在促統會裡面是怎麼形容一個中國?我們那個時候李登輝那時候的說法應該是"},{"start":14061.401,"end":14077.37,"text":"前面就是一個中國的一個原則雙方認同一個中國的原則但是對於一個中國的含義各自不同也就是你講你的我講我的那為什麼現在好像變成我們陸委會每天在引用對岸的一個論述來變成我們的論述這就變得一個非常奇怪的事情"},{"start":14077.97,"end":14079.891,"text":"我們政府認為沒有所謂的九二共識在當年九二年也沒有留下這種東西那雙方對於所謂一中原子的意涵"},{"start":14096.703,"end":14116.789,"text":"認知顯有不同所以我們就用口頭方式我們用口頭方式來各自討論回到我剛剛一個問題這就是所謂的過去國民黨朋友或者是我們一尊各表海峽論壇裡面到底有什麼東西是讓我們陸委會判斷它是要消滅我們中華民國它有很多政治前提"},{"start":14118.13,"end":14134.212,"text":"對 那個政治前提跟消滅中華民國沒有直接關係吧那委員你試試看你去海峽論壇說我來自於中華民國我當然中華人民共和國來台灣我也不允許啊我也不允許他說他支持中華人民共和國這就是各自表述的意圖對不對"},{"start":14135.253,"end":14144.018,"text":"各等尊嚴的交流我們都非常樂意協助也肯定這種交流回到我剛剛講的話我們三層論壇 兩無論壇我們這個論壇會被認為是要消滅中華民國如果你能夠說服我我也不會再過去了我是中華民國派我永遠效忠中華民國"},{"start":14158.047,"end":14170.721,"text":"是不是?但是你要說服我為什麼這樣子的一個論壇被你們定義為要消滅中華民國我們從另外一個方向海峽論壇是它的軟手、硬手軍機建老台、外交打壓、經濟脅迫、社會滲透"},{"start":14173.384,"end":14189.073,"text":"跨境鎮壓的法律戰鋪天蓋地的認知作戰灰色地帶的侵擾這哪一項不是為了併吞台灣消滅中華民國的舉措國民黨也都譴責嘛回到了論壇本身嘛如果說這些行為都可以"},{"start":14190.233,"end":14202.919,"text":"你們都這樣判斷那就根本就不用限制在這個論壇了連大陸都不能去了嘛對不對我們立法委員我們是沒有規範我們是如果要懲到這一些都在這個九二共和國海峽論壇的精神不能去的話"},{"start":14205.8,"end":14213.683,"text":"這些行為導致不能去海峽論壇的話那應該不只是海峽論壇不能去應該是整個連大陸都不能去了嘛不要這麼說我給你們報告其實對海峽論壇開始設限"},{"start":14220.265,"end":14246.954,"text":"是從這個2012年在馬政府執政的時候就開始對於當時候的海峽論壇的一些就開始禁止中央人員去中國大陸同時也不同意讓海峽論壇的分支機構在台灣舉辦這個是從2012年就開始留下來這些政策立場我們到現在只是不斷的補強他的政策立場"},{"start":14247.774,"end":14265.551,"text":"那當然我們也知道中共對台灣的複合性的施壓,步步漸逼極限施壓也因此我們也認為地方政府的人也不應該前往這些地方政府的輪廓我們都知道啦只是說具體在海峽論壇這上面我好像沒有得到我想要的答案啦那你認為說假設我認同海峽論壇它是有統戰的意涵"},{"start":14269.475,"end":14296.266,"text":"那不然就是統戰平台統戰不是只統一 這個主委非常清楚嘛對不對統戰就是聯合次要敵人打擊主要的敵人嘛但是就我的觀察來看目前譬如說包括我現在在這邊講我是中華民國派我永遠效忠中華民國我到那邊完全都沒有受到任何的一個算是不禮貌的對待或者是任何的一被跨境鎮壓還等等的"},{"start":14297.981,"end":14314.179,"text":"但是我們可以看到對岸是對什麼東西是最不滿的我們都很清楚是對台獨不滿的嘛對不對與其說海峽論壇我沒有期待你同意啦但與其來說如果說你要把海峽論壇當作一個是統戰平台的話那就是"},{"start":14317.074,"end":14329.944,"text":"你要聯合哪個次要敵人來消滅中華民國中華民國就分兩邊嘛一個是台獨派一個是中華民國派你要消滅中華民國派那就是聯合次要敵人就是台獨派來消滅中華民國不然你就是聯合中華民國派來消滅台獨派"},{"start":14331.365,"end":14335.467,"text":"就只有這兩個選擇我們國內不分黨派都要團結一致面對中國大陸的威脅我們都應該有一個基本的認識今天最主要改變現狀的"},{"start":14348.374,"end":14364.616,"text":"危害兩岸關係的製造兩岸緊張的區域動態不安的原因啊國際社會都認為是中國大陸對台灣的這個複合性施壓我們應該要2016年的兩岸關係跟現在怎麼樣剛剛你有非常清楚的說明現在比那時候還更不好"},{"start":14366.547,"end":14393.557,"text":"那是因為兩岸的關係還是民進黨的關係大家都會有一個心中自我的一個政治判斷啦我一直希望說陸委會的職責應該是要把現有的兩岸的摩擦跟惡意去把它降低而不是為了執政黨的政治的我們沒有為什麼黨派我們不為了台灣守護台灣守護中華民國我們的兩岸政治還是一樣"},{"start":14394.477,"end":14405.966,"text":"我們是不卑不亢維持現狀雖然我們受到很多挑戰威脅但是我們還是堅持在對等尊嚴持續的健康有序的交流謝謝謝謝廖先生召委接下來請林倩琦委員"},{"start":14425.818,"end":14431.244,"text":"謝謝我們主席廖召瑋好 我來先請那個我們陸委會主委邱主委"},{"start":14435.817,"end":14465.157,"text":"主委好從您上任您大概也就對於中國大陸您一直提到統戰的問題可能就是您的中心思想那本席就是要為人民來請命所以本席想要問一下其實今天早上本席也聽到了一些質詢但我發現對於大家的中心思想可能要花一段時間來辯證所以為人民請命本席在這邊希望在有效的時間內能夠聽到陸委會的一些做法"},{"start":14465.757,"end":14472.344,"text":"那簡單來講就是台東縣長華勞縣長他預錄了影片然後希望替台東的農民發聲在海峽論壇上他希望因為他沒有辦法去嘛所以他希望透過這個影片為農民來發聲然後希望呢為台東的農民來拓增台東農產品的市場那我想請問一下那這個部分是有什麼錯"},{"start":14488.797,"end":14511.632,"text":"跟委員報告可以簡單很直接我時間很緊迫那本席後面還有一些題目要問所以那個中心思想的東西我們可以會會再討論可不可以先告訴我們怎麼樣處理這個你所謂濃密的這個問題是跟委員報告因為勞縣長等人的申請今年的海峽論壇活動他已經被內政部聯審會審查否準那自然"},{"start":14515.495,"end":14534.469,"text":"他以這個錄影的方式或視訊的方式形式參與那有很多的民眾提出檢舉那對於外界質疑這個勞縣長是不是違反相關的交流法令我們後續就由主管機關內政部來進行必要的了解"},{"start":14535.029,"end":14539.712,"text":"謝謝 所以我想作為一個地方首長他為在地的民眾為台中縣的相關的產品來做發聲我想這個部分應該我們中央單位應該要同理地方首長對於他所轄縣市的民眾所需要的來打開這個市場來發聲我覺得你們應該來好好的處理這件事情不應該一開始就先貼上政治標籤然後揚言要查處"},{"start":14564.09,"end":14576.885,"text":"所以就作為委會我想你們應該要努力的促進兩岸的交流兩岸的了解而不是透過許多的方式變成在阻礙一些交流這邊等於做一個很誠意的提醒因為這件事情是正好跟海峽論壇有關"},{"start":14581.93,"end":14593.158,"text":"我不想一直在這裡面討論 因為這樣一整天聽下來有就政治邏輯上的討論 還有態度上的討論可是客觀事實的認清我們從反政府開始 反海峽平台 國內政黨平台的統戰平台都希望生活能夠過得很好所以重點是我們如何來解決問題"},{"start":14604.306,"end":14613.015,"text":"中央沒有辦法來協助農民來打開市場至少不要在地方政府試圖來協助農民的時候然後變成一種阻礙嘛然後其次 其次如果台中的農產品沒有辦法 也沒有辦法"},{"start":14623.286,"end":14629.213,"text":"他是在幫忙行銷嘛 首長在幫忙行銷嘛但是不要到海峽論壇我們人們不要在這個線路你頭上有聽你再講說這個又是什麼論壇是你們所講的有關於統戰的平台我們要再講統戰又太螺入很多政治邏輯本期今天只想解決問題所以"},{"start":14642.489,"end":14659.217,"text":"如果地方政府或者是地方的農民相關的產業有困難那希望你們能夠好好的協助不要在一些事情上成為大家的阻礙這是本席今天的提醒因為時間有限我們沒有辦法在這邊探討政治流警的問題但重點是作為中央單位"},{"start":14659.998,"end":14678.619,"text":"請同理你們做了很多要求做了很多規定但重點是這些要求跟規定如何來協助如何真正同理一般民眾生活之所需好這是本席今天的重點好那是不是接下來我會有兩個問題要請教袁明慧謝謝主委謝謝袁委員"},{"start":14682.714,"end":14702.289,"text":"本席這邊關心人民的相關的議題第一個部分當然也是大家最關心的目前馬太安重建了跟原鄉的整個防疫防災的這個韌性所以本席在馬太安的事件發生之後我們也有現刊也有很多的關心"},{"start":14706.812,"end":14714.797,"text":"有聽到許多族人質疑提防工程用地取得的程序沒有依照原住民族基本法第21條的辦理來協商同意"},{"start":14734.25,"end":14749.978,"text":"哪一些工程會限制原住民族土地跟自然資源的運用那第二個部分是面對緊急災防有的時候必須要進行及時的處理但是緊急處置可以"},{"start":14751.078,"end":14771.266,"text":"暫時的先行但是長期的工程永久的施工用地的取得還是應該要資商來同意所以你們是不是有一些明確的界線避免其他的機關因為就拿防災作為一個藉口然後長期繞過了這個應該跟我們原鄉族人的一個資商程序"},{"start":14773.228,"end":14777.233,"text":"對於我們要用原住民的保留地即便是公家要用也應該要尊重我們原住民這是一定的"},{"start":14788.388,"end":14812.274,"text":"那概念上我們都同意啦所以你們有沒有掌握目前中央的相關部位在即時這個必須要搶救或者是即時必須要施工跟長期的這個取得有沒有一些諮詢或者是目前衝擊到的相關部落跟區域我所知道是水利署他也有提供所有的親社給我們那就是說有涉及到原住民的土地的我們也很"},{"start":14814.335,"end":14829.651,"text":"強調就是說 只要是原住民的部分尤其是特別是你室友地的部分一定要經過我們的這個部落的諮商所以你目前掌握目前可能沒有諮商的一個狀況嗎來 報告委員都有因為 一定都有齁 對那你現在確定都有嗎"},{"start":14829.991,"end":14855.898,"text":"我們包括我們那個清澈的部分我們都我們像我土管處處長都跟他們水利署副署長都有建立一個那個溝通平台我們定期他們只要有用地範圍取得的部分他們通通都會跟我們把清澈提供給我們我們要去判斷就是什麼事情是及時必須處理的那什麼是長期一定要透過諮詢這個程序來完備的那我希望人民會這邊也有掌握"},{"start":14856.658,"end":14881.498,"text":"但有跟這個水利署建立一個很良好的溝通兵我們也在地方辦了很多場的說明會那如果有這樣子本席還是長期會注意這個問題那接下來有一個議題那本席希望國民會這邊能夠更積極更主動來處理也就是有關於原住民族公務人員退休以後能夠來投入原鄉服務的制度銜接的問題那這就跟原住民的平均餘命也有點關係"},{"start":14882.699,"end":14902.493,"text":"我們目前那個13年的原住民的這個檢疫生命表原住民的平均年齡是73.23歲那男女還是有一些有別但是許多的社會福利制度裡面原住民族老人的標準是55歲以上為起點而不是一般的65歲所以我這邊也認為55歲到60歲之間的原住民族的公務人員其實還很具備豐富的行政經驗那公務事務的能力而且還跟部落有一些連結"},{"start":14912.56,"end":14915.118,"text":"如果他們能夠在比較合理的年齡退休的話"},{"start":14916.874,"end":14943.143,"text":"也會有穩定的退休金來支持更可以更積極的投入部落的公共事務來文化傳承也能夠啟動地方的這個創生那對於災防我想又更有經驗所以本席請教好 各位那麼人民會是不是可以來主動會同情緒部人事行政總處及相關的部會來評估建立原住民族退休公務員返鄉服務的機制"},{"start":14944.757,"end":14973.556,"text":"有這個概念嗎好 這個概念我想很好就是五十五歲到六十歲這個是還非常有服務經驗的時候我想這個我們會跟我們人事總署這邊我們來做一個協調協商好不好謝謝主委所以就請雲林會這邊主動積極的來做處理那本席這邊提出來這個建議也希望這樣一個建議未來對於原鄉我們能夠更有實質的一些投入那對原鄉我相信應該也可以好好的來"},{"start":14974.917,"end":14980.361,"text":"處理跟支持我們目前原鄉的一些實際的狀況好不好好謝謝我們下一位請鍾嘉賓委員發言質詢鍾嘉賓鍾嘉賓鍾嘉賓不在下一位請盧憲毅委員發言質詢好謝謝主席有請園民會主委"},{"start":15010,"end":15026.808,"text":"委員好主委辛苦了今天大概要問你兩個問題第一個就是我們的原住民族的知識研究中心也就是民族教育課綱教材研發跟實質培育的銜接問題那在6月10號教育部辦一個原住民族教育政策的會議上"},{"start":15027.308,"end":15053.204,"text":"很多學者、實驗學校的校長、第一線的教師跟民主教育工作者都有在提醒知識體系課綱教材跟師資不能切開來看可是矛盾的是什麼呢教育部跟人民會依原住民主教育法第九條共同訂定的原住民主教育計畫2015年到2019年本來就是未來的五年最上位的教育藍圖這計畫也承認原住民主知識體系的建構的一個計畫"},{"start":15055.546,"end":15075.712,"text":"既然如此,園民會為什麼要在計劃綱要求各大學的知識研究中心以及類似泰雅族母族教育課程綱要發展計劃12年到15年的子計劃終止或者轉型所以我想要問的就是說園民會停止跟調整知識研究中心及課程"},{"start":15076.452,"end":15091.796,"text":"該要發展計畫是諮詢了哪一個單位或諮詢了誰有沒有參與計畫的校長教師 棋老跟實驗學校原住民正點學校跟部落代表參加有沒有把決策的依據評估的報告會議紀錄跟替代方案向駕馭現場說明"},{"start":15099.69,"end":15115.216,"text":"整個原住民族知識體系的建構是一個中長程的計畫那在第一期的計畫我們已經完成了十六個民族的整個知識分類的架構也收穫了十萬筆以上的整個原住民的知識的資料那這個第一期的"},{"start":15116.356,"end":15137.621,"text":"第一期的計畫工作完成之後 後續我們就是要依據我們第一期所建構的這些基礎來做課綱跟教材的研發後來落實到我們的課堂的課程的實施 這個是一貫性我們在第二期會持續來做第二期是什麼時候開始 從明年開始一貫五年嗎 對 第一期的五年已經結束了"},{"start":15138.661,"end":15153.799,"text":"那我們還是希望說第五期的原住民主教育發展計畫將各大學知識研究中心有短期的補助轉型為常態的資源的機制所以我想說所有對常態化的這個提案的態度是怎麼樣"},{"start":15154.66,"end":15175.834,"text":"我們是支持的我們支持那我希望有個書面報告就是說能夠列個中性的成果清澈語料跟影像保存的授權規範後續承接單位及原專幫言語會 言語會的合作轉化的機制看看能不能來做一個成果報告好 這些成果清澈我們會再做一個成果報告"},{"start":15176.855,"end":15191.622,"text":"第二個問題 請公建處這邊能夠回應一下就是這次我們的大陸問訊計畫減略了失業多然後漁居建設部那個部落建設計畫也減略將近八千萬元"},{"start":15192.262,"end":15212.014,"text":"那我是覺得我們的風險而且災害都沒有變少為什麼會減劣我們大概上個月有問到說公建署有回應我們盤點1500多公里的原住民部落林業道路也知道哪些是易滯災的路段哪些是易形成孤島"},{"start":15212.614,"end":15232.147,"text":"那你說既然已經盤點的話我們這些大陸的修繕的優先順序你們是怎麼做的是不是誰先涉案誰先會刊還是說依國島風險醫療後送學童開學檢查的維修若是的策略來排優先順序包委員那經費檢列主要原因是因為"},{"start":15233.468,"end":15247.568,"text":"因為今年跟明年有關原鄉大陸跟基礎宜居部落相關需要復建的經費我們有特別預算總共42億元投進去了那所以相對而言購入預算的需求就會比較少那"},{"start":15248.249,"end":15274.697,"text":"所以整體而言以今年來說的話我們工建計畫它供應預算2.4億元加上今年要完成的原住民地區道路復建是21億元兩個加起來其實光今年預算就24億元的經費投入道路所以不是因為經費減少而是因為有另外一筆經費來支援這園鄉的基礎建設那是經費增加的那我剛問的說這些順序你們是怎麼去來訂定的呢"},{"start":15275.61,"end":15303.407,"text":"我們分兩塊第一個我們應該是路的部分我們路段是只要銜接到部落銜接到公務系統以及部落之間的聯絡道路都是我們優先要去做的尤其是義志丹的有162處的義行城孤島部落我怎樣去好這些道路的韌性能夠對外通行這都是我們優先要去給予協助來協助他補助的一個對象"},{"start":15304.227,"end":15333.539,"text":"像高雄129就是那馬廈的唯一另外道路還有新竹的無風箱的122縣道我們不能說財務會每次都推給縣或是推給中央然後人民會這邊的角色是什麼像那個新竹的122縣的確它屬於縣政府主管的道路但是地方既然有反映的話我們還是有跟交通部發文且關心那另外呢假設這道路平常是有滯在之後會容易中斷"},{"start":15334.72,"end":15360.6,"text":"那行政院部分有招募附件的經費呢 協助他們來辦搶修搶險還是有這樣 中央還是有這個協助的角色所以這邊有三個問題 就是一千五百多公里這個部落聯絡道路的盤點成果希望我有一份 第二個就是抑制在路段跟一行程孤島的部落清單第三個就是一五年道路修正的優先順序跟跨部會協調表能不能也讓我們知道 這沒問題"},{"start":15361.741,"end":15382.582,"text":"然後最後就是我們四文部的災時撤離跟永久遷村的選項我們想說是不是有一個第三個方案上次我們也有討論過是不是先基礎設施先行 按次方式多元保留原居對連結就是突破以往就是要永久切割這樣一個社群切割的這樣一個問題"},{"start":15384.284,"end":15400.791,"text":"所以我想說我們這個雲林會是不是應該橫向整合宜居部落計畫的公共基礎設施跟民眾民主住宅計畫的多人居住協助然後銜接內政部的社會住宅跟防災型的住宅政策讓市委這個部落能夠解套"},{"start":15402.918,"end":15431.061,"text":"包委員 目前村民相公所他的規劃就是把四文四文那個天蟹棚基地他一部分空間呢作為那個臨時收容安置的場所那收容安置場所的部分的話未來我們會跟那個衛福部以及內政部來一起來討論那另外呢至於有關於他們遷村部分的話目前他們還要在部落還是還沒有共識啦那我們第一階段我們先把"},{"start":15431.981,"end":15452.059,"text":"部落災時能夠緊急安置下這個地點我們先把它做好這樣子所以我希望有一個就是有些進度就是我之前有提過第四期國家氣候變遷調適行動計畫我希望人民會能夠主動來爭取跟我們環境部的一個協商所以我想知道有啟動這個協商了嗎還是說尚未啟動啟動那個協商了嗎"},{"start":15460.367,"end":15479.644,"text":"我希望這個部分我們辦公室會仔細追蹤最後一個問題就是說原鄉防災缺口的整合追蹤表因為接下來就要訓期了我們希望一個可以管考的表列出高風險部落的道路中斷 減水失門 通訊死角"},{"start":15480.565,"end":15504.501,"text":"備援定力 避難空間 弱勢撤離的缺口那些組織機關是誰 協放機關是誰 改善的期程我是覺得我們到了2026年我覺得我們應該不是只有撤離這個選項應該要把這些可以廣告的表弄出來才會知道說哪一個部位需要什麼東西最需要解決的是什麼東西"},{"start":15504.901,"end":15517.459,"text":"好 這個我們會盤點出來每一次的災害我們就有一次的教訓就是有一些需要哪一些部落需要什麼樣的支援我們大概也都非常清楚了好 謝謝主委那最後請袁王會"},{"start":15527.784,"end":15548.676,"text":"就是我們新聞部內大概4199萬2千人在訓練我們的大專文才那我想知道說 委員會是不是會把培訓當成成果卻沒有把禁用流財之外的銜接當成制度所以在新聞委員會就是說我們的新聞部人事新聞網正式委員會有多少"},{"start":15549.156,"end":15562.954,"text":"未聘僱 撞案 勞務 承攬 外交人力各有多少?近三年的新聞記者黎子綠是多少?黎子綠原因是薪資工時 身軀不明還是資產環境 還是組織人偶的限制?"},{"start":15563.985,"end":15581.942,"text":"好 各位報告有關離子就是禁用的這個部分我們都按照我們信用合一的方式來去進行那過去我們有特別是足矣的部分我們都會有一段時間我們也跟園民會申請了一筆的那個專案的補助來讓我們的足矣人才一對一的來做"},{"start":15583.823,"end":15607.828,"text":"禁用的這樣的培訓的課程這個部分我們都有照著我們的計畫來去進行那至於離職的部分就是這部分也跟業界有關係就是我們的禁用的薪資可能跟業界差不多但是我們的調薪的那個時程是比較長一點就是那個制度上是跟業界民間的業界是有一點有一點點落差這部分我們其實"},{"start":15608.588,"end":15632.848,"text":"在跟我們的工會裡面我們都有在持續的在溝通看看能不能在流用的這個部分在就是讓我們離子的那個同仁就是那個比例可以再降低流用的機率跟在我們這邊形成更多的專業以後讓我們在報導上在我們的新聞專業上可以更多的加成的效果"},{"start":15633.268,"end":15645.94,"text":"好 我們知道現在離職率是8%到12%所以我要追問說你改善薪資 晉升 轉調考核 專業評鑑有沒有這方面的一個進度然後有沒有更好的一個精進的作為讓他們能夠留下來"},{"start":15648.373,"end":15672.904,"text":"好跟我們報告這個部分我們其實我們一直都就像我剛說的我們跟我們的工會跟我們工會這邊有做內部的討論這個部分我們都會在做持續的在調整我們內部的規範再報主管機關這邊來核定那我們期望在未來我們透過不只是在人才培訓在金融上我們其實我們"},{"start":15674.886,"end":15688.762,"text":"這一段時間我們也跟我們的地方的中心就是要轉向到像台東的中心是跟台東大學合作那中部的中心我們7月我們就要跟中部的濟南大學合作"},{"start":15689.122,"end":15713.071,"text":"那南部的中心我們要未來我們要往那個高雄師大合作希望在產學的這一塊我們可以連結讓我們在學生端在這過程當中多過實習多過攻讀那讓他們在這段時間就開始參與我們的新聞跟節目的製作讓他們未來有機會來再聘在我們我們的機構裡面以上說明謝謝"},{"start":15716.213,"end":15731.652,"text":"這個115年的預算報告寫到說園園會要推動公民記者北東中南三個中心族與新民記者的訓練這些方向是本市是非常支持但不能只有看到培訓的人數公民記者實際的工稿是多少"},{"start":15732.133,"end":15732.473,"text":"會後我們會提出說明跟報告 謝謝"},{"start":15751.966,"end":15770.105,"text":"近三年的新闻部跟原始新闻网正式约聘过专门劳务成员的人力比例以及离职率及离职原因我想要知道国民记者干涉所说的公稿建树采用率跟稿费的标准还有编审查核跟错误更正的SOP"},{"start":15771.667,"end":15773.427,"text":"登記執行委員除不在場者外其餘均已執行完畢"},{"start":15801.517,"end":15824.268,"text":"詢答結束委員蘇巧慧、丁學中、徐欣盈、高靜素梅、傅坤祺所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報書面質詢和未及答覆部分請相關單位於一週內書面答覆並複製本會本日議程所列預算案相關預算提案於民國一五年六月二十四日星期三中午十二點前截止收件預時不後本次議程處理完畢現在散會"},{"start":15841.152,"end":15843.848,"text":"謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}